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| * SpeedEvil wonders if londo has the haircut. | 00:08 | |
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| javispedro | will the N900 work with my BTH 100HX+ firmware revision 41.56E6 variant A2? | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
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| Jaffa | javispedro: Yes, as long as you enable the N900's compass and remember the cross-link the reciprocating splines | 00:10 |
| javispedro | that's GREAT! | 00:11 |
| * javispedro proposes creating of do-not-talk.maemo.org subdomain | 00:11 | |
| javispedro | s/creating/creation | 00:11 |
| VDVsx | for what ? lol | 00:11 |
| javispedro | not talking about when is it released, of course! | 00:12 |
| Macer | wtf is a prat? | 00:12 |
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| Macer | is that like british for prick or asshole or something? | 00:12 |
| javispedro | Macer: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/prat | 00:12 |
| javispedro | Macer: seems so ("fool") | 00:13 |
| * Stskeeps notes that n900 can take a lot of beatings. | 00:13 | |
| Jaffa | Macer: Yes, "prat" is an occasionally affectionate and not-as-offensive version of "asshole" | 00:14 |
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| Jaffa | see also "plonker" | 00:14 |
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| Macer | haha | 00:17 |
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| jaem | hmm... kinetic scrolling is shiny, but when I saw that my *terminal* had kinetic scrolling, I wasn't sure whether that was awesome or disgusting :P | 00:19 |
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| jaem | heh | 00:19 |
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| RedPenguin | I know you can reflash your N810 if it messes up, but is there any methods to make your own flash image of exactly the way you have your device now? | 00:20 |
| jaem | RedPenguin, not easily, however, if you're cloning your install to a card, there is a "backup" option that will do much the same thing | 00:21 |
| jaem | it just tar's the filesystem, though | 00:21 |
| RedPenguin | Oh I see what you mean | 00:21 |
| RedPenguin | Wasn't sure if there was a way to using USB or possibly Network Access send everything over basically | 00:21 |
| RedPenguin | Kinda likleg what you do with imaging a desktop basically | 00:22 |
| timeless_mbp | RedPenguin: you can try to use rsync | 00:22 |
| RedPenguin | like not likleg | 00:22 |
| timeless_mbp | but you ahve to be careful | 00:22 |
| jaem | RedPenguin, what I mentioned was just like ZIPping everything and putting it back on later | 00:22 |
| timeless_mbp | s/ahve/have/ | 00:22 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: but you have to be careful | 00:22 |
| * Stskeeps untars mer image onto his n900 microsd | 00:23 | |
| javispedro | good luck :) | 00:24 |
| timeless_mbp | how does voting work? | 00:24 |
| timeless_mbp | do we have to promote non user/ packages? | 00:24 |
| RedPenguin | I will have to try some of those methods, seems nicer than nothing but a 100% factory every time | 00:24 |
| timeless_mbp | RedPenguin: the native backup is not too bad | 00:25 |
| jaem | regarding Qt for the N900, my prof preinstalled the Qt packages for me, but it appears they weren't optified (coming from extras-devel), and they filled up my device quite quickly | 00:25 |
| timeless_mbp | you can add packages to add extra data for backup/restore | 00:25 |
| jaem | is someone going to package them properly soon? | 00:25 |
| timeless_mbp | and if you backup package lists | 00:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | you can arrange to pull in your data | 00:25 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: ouch | 00:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | jaem: find the maintainer and complain :) | 00:25 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, willdo | 00:26 |
| jaem | it's *kind of* an issue | 00:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, Eric updated the Linux for Devices story. | 00:30 |
| timeless_mbp | with less lame numbers? | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, apparently eWeek was responsible for the screwups since it was mostly a mirrored article. | 00:30 |
| timeless_mbp | did someone contact eWeek? | 00:30 |
| timeless_mbp | btw, you wanted a headsup for when i go on a bug spree? | 00:30 |
| timeless_mbp | headsup | 00:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, I think I have a bit of a buffer from you right now, actually. | 00:31 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 00:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hey forwarded my email on to eWeek. | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | 868 vs 836 | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Guess not. ;) | 00:32 |
| * GeneralAntilles will find more bugs when I get PR 1.0 | 00:33 | |
| javispedro | hey, a story with screwups? | 00:33 |
| javispedro | me wants | 00:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, too bad, they fixed it. ;) | 00:34 |
| timeless_mbp | 868? | 00:34 |
| javispedro | :( | 00:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: did you see the Wired article? | 00:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | and the ibtimes n900 v. htc/droid | 00:39 |
| wazd | cya all | 00:40 |
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| woglinde | jo pupnik | 00:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, newer than the old one? | 00:47 |
| pupnik | where's Khertan | 00:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | dunno | 00:47 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't read articles often | 00:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/10/hands-on-with-nokias-n900/ ? | 00:53 |
| timeless_mbp | something else i think | 00:53 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, no | 00:53 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, something else? | 00:53 |
| timeless_mbp | not sure | 00:53 |
| timeless_mbp | my memory sucks :) | 00:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Apparently. | 00:53 |
| javispedro | yeah, that one's old | 00:54 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 00:54 | |
| timeless_mbp | this is fun | 00:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | we're fighting about who should do work | 00:54 |
| timeless_mbp | the browser team or the flash team | 00:54 |
| woglinde | flash | 00:55 |
| javispedro | by flash team you mean the adobe one? they actually _work_? | 00:55 |
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| javispedro | ;) | 00:55 |
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| woglinde | hm this trolltech javascript statemachine is somehow cool | 00:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | no, we have our own flash team | 00:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Some insane stuff has been done in JS. | 00:56 |
| SpeedEvil | http://matt.west.co.tt/spectrum/jsspeccy/ | 00:56 |
| greenfly | timeless_mbp: quick browser question: currently if "mouse mode" is enabled and a page refreshes, mouse mode gets disabled. just wondering whether that was a design decision | 00:57 |
| timeless_mbp | dunno | 00:57 |
| timeless_mbp | probably an impl detail | 00:57 |
| timeless_mbp | that's unlikely to be something that was actively specified by the ui designer | 00:57 |
| greenfly | ahh ok, thx | 00:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh | 00:59 |
| timeless_mbp | offhand, the reason is probably because if you click a link | 01:00 |
| timeless_mbp | and the link takes you to a *different* page | 01:00 |
| timeless_mbp | you probably don't want to retain mouse mode | 01:00 |
| timeless_mbp | the browser ui probably doesn't understand much about the distinction between the same page/domain and a different page/domain/site | 01:00 |
| greenfly | ahh, that could be | 01:01 |
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| timeless_mbp | so | 01:01 |
| timeless_mbp | before you file | 01:01 |
| timeless_mbp | see if you can find a decent definition/algorithm to distinguish between those cases | 01:01 |
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| greenfly | okay sure | 01:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | sorry, thinking is a painful task.. and not immediate :) | 01:04 |
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| pupnik | n900 should get a quick-tap audio recording app | 01:13 |
| pupnik | for emergencies | 01:13 |
| edgar21 | like the media player widget? only with a record button instead of play button | 01:14 |
| javispedro | the camera button could be a bit more intelligent | 01:14 |
| javispedro | maybe holding it with the camera lens closed could start recording | 01:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Or just opening the shutter records audio | 01:14 |
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| pupnik | not sure - recently a Ron Paul aide was illegally arrested by Transportation Security Authorities and recorded the abuse with his iphone. The resulting scandal changed airport security guidelines. | 01:14 |
| * SpeedEvil misread that as 'Rue Pail' | 01:15 | |
| SpeedEvil | paul | 01:15 |
| pupnik | Are you stupid or evil? | 01:15 |
| PortaLu | Ru Paul? | 01:15 |
| SpeedEvil | never heard of Ron Paul | 01:15 |
| pupnik | The point being, the utility of recording government criminals. | 01:16 |
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| PortaLu | who said ron? | 01:17 |
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| javispedro | the first 6 tmo users sorted by username: !! bubblers, !! glassbongs, !! glasspipes, !! headshop, !! marijuanaseeds, !! medicalmarijuana | 01:17 |
| javispedro | I think that speaks about the rest... | 01:17 |
| * Stskeeps ponders how to temporarily disable the cover check in kernel | 01:18 | |
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| pupnik | what does cover check influence? can i flash with cover off Stskeeps ? | 01:19 |
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| Stskeeps | it influences access to ext sd | 01:19 |
| pupnik | k | 01:19 |
| javispedro | ah, the battery cover? | 01:19 |
| javispedro | yes, of course :P | 01:19 |
| VDVsx | oh, androidandme.com at planet.maemo very suitable feed, lol | 01:19 |
| javispedro | lol :) | 01:21 |
| * javispedro likes "maemo.org Applications" better than extras | 01:21 | |
| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=373004#post373004 | 01:21 |
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| VDVsx | +1 | 01:24 |
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| GAN900 | I'm fighting it | 01:27 |
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| GAN900 | 4 years of inertia behind 'Extras' | 01:28 |
| GAN900 | and we certainly aren't changing the name everywhere else. | 01:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Inertia that nobody cares about | 01:28 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 01:28 |
| timeless_mbp | so http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/20091105/smartphone-wars-nokia-n900-versus-htc-hd2-versus-motorola-droid-one.htm | 01:28 |
| timeless_mbp | says there's an IR port | 01:29 |
| Stskeeps | there is | 01:29 |
| javispedro | maemo.org Extras & Applications | 01:29 |
| javispedro | :) | 01:29 |
| timeless_mbp | has anyone ever actually disassembled it | 01:29 |
| timeless_mbp | and seen if the IR port does anything? | 01:29 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, can you go find the person that made this stupid decision and hit them? | 01:29 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: irrecco video on youtube | 01:29 |
| GAN900 | Applications is a misnomer anyway. | 01:29 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: i don't have the energy for that | 01:29 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: On recipt of two n900s, I will completely strip one, and perform a component level breakdown on it. | 01:29 |
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| GAN900 | As lots of the stuff in Extras isn't anything of the sort. | 01:30 |
| javispedro | GAN900: Exactly! | 01:30 |
| javispedro | that's why I was going to say | 01:30 |
| javispedro | that I'd like to get the "Extras" moniker back to a less QA'd repo | 01:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Applications should be stuff like openstreetmap editors, photo manupulation software, ... | 01:30 |
| SpeedEvil | extras - better brightness applets, moocow, ... | 01:31 |
| GAN900 | Unilateral discussion-free bullshit seems to be what Maemo's about these days. | 01:31 |
| Lorthirk | good night people | 01:31 |
| javispedro | heh | 01:31 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 01:31 |
| SpeedEvil | night | 01:31 |
| javispedro | nite | 01:31 |
| * GAN900 is going to work himself into a frothing rage in a minute. | 01:32 | |
| javispedro | "Increases Physical damage and attack speed by 50%." interesting. | 01:32 |
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| * timeless_mbp frowns | 01:34 | |
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| timeless_mbp | can someone help me find a contact for ibtimes.co.uk? | 01:34 |
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| zerojay | GAN900: No kidding. | 01:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe I'd feel better if I hit myself in the head with a ball-peen hammer. | 01:40 |
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| Stskeeps | extras doesnt translate well to danish | 01:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Good for Danish. | 01:41 |
| zerojay | What the... | 01:41 |
| javispedro | and at least here, people would look at something named "an extra" with disdain -- like if it were some merchandising. | 01:41 |
| zerojay | why are they changing it to applications? Makes zero sense. | 01:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, because Nokia, apparently, loves discussion-free unilateral decisions. | 01:41 |
| zerojay | And everyone searching is going to be asking "where's this maemo extras?" | 01:41 |
| Stskeeps | i18n? | 01:42 |
| javispedro | zerojay: that's happening already. | 01:42 |
| zerojay | javispedro: I can imagine. | 01:42 |
| zerojay | argh. | 01:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: internationalization | 01:43 |
| javispedro | when are we going to delete all wiki articles talking about R&D mode? talking about the app mgr allowing installation of .debs? talking about the rotation support kernel patch? | 01:43 |
| javispedro | etc. etc. etc. | 01:43 |
| kurtan | gah, this sux http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=372947&postcount=383 | 01:44 |
| kurtan | who can i kill to get my n900 ? | 01:44 |
| kurtan | there has to be someone | 01:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3307#c14 | 01:44 |
| povbot | Bug 3307: "maemo Extras" in Application manager should be "Extras" | 01:44 |
| kurtan | :< | 01:44 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: i know :P how would you translate Extras to some of the langs you know? | 01:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: oh, i'm sure i translate it :) | 01:44 |
| timeless_mbp | don't worry | 01:44 |
| timeless_mbp | they're probably following process | 01:45 |
| timeless_mbp | although i don't really want to look | 01:45 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, Portuguese: Extras | 01:45 |
| VDVsx | :P | 01:45 |
| javispedro | ^^ +1 | 01:45 |
| timeless_mbp | actually | 01:45 |
| timeless_mbp | no. | 01:45 |
| timeless_mbp | because the repo names are hard coded | 01:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't translate it. | 01:45 |
| timeless_mbp | e.g. the stupid one that had 'Foopy Catalogue' | 01:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a brand. | 01:45 |
| timeless_mbp | which looked wrong for US English | 01:45 |
| timeless_mbp | or 'Barpy Catalog' | 01:45 |
| timeless_mbp | which looked wrong for UK English | 01:45 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll write a package which fixes it :) | 01:46 |
| timeless_mbp | and we can make most people depend on my package :) | 01:46 |
| javispedro | well then, post the name change to the mailing list and let the flame fests start! /me goes grab some popcorn | 01:46 |
| timeless_mbp | actually | 01:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | we noted at dinner that we should probably hack gconf to store all prefs in ~ instead of / | 01:47 |
| * GeneralAntilles isn't going to answer any questions about the "Applications" catalog. | 01:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | to protect against flashing behavior | 01:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | I guess we have made some progress | 01:47 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: if it comes enabled... | 01:47 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway | 01:47 |
| timeless_mbp | lemme figure out the other stuff first | 01:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | At least Nokia is informing us of their unilateral decisions before they deploy them | 01:48 |
| timeless_mbp | like ... can someone help me build a package | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Although sometimes they like to just inform us that they've made them | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | not give away any of the actual content | 01:48 |
| * GeneralAntilles glares at konttori. | 01:48 | |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: do you guys object to me pushing a non-free package to extras? :) | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, why's it non-free? | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I object to laziness-induced non-free | 01:48 |
| timeless_mbp | because i'm lazy | 01:48 |
| * GeneralAntilles glares at konttori some more. | 01:49 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok ok | 01:49 |
| timeless_mbp | so i guess i need to write some more magic | 01:49 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 01:49 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Even if I object, though, you're free to do it anyway. ;) | 01:50 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 01:50 | |
| timeless_mbp | right, so um | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | The guy holding the keys is on vacation for the next few weeks. | 01:50 |
| timeless_mbp | how should i do this? | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | So there's nobody to punish you. ;) | 01:50 |
| timeless_mbp | ?? | 01:50 |
| timeless_mbp | x-fade? | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 01:50 |
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| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: and I think this is one of those times that quim is just reporting an already made decision. | 01:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, I'm goddamn tired of it. | 01:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | If they need to discuss something to come to a decision, do it out here. | 01:51 |
| javispedro | but don't worry, it may be changed again with the second maint. release! | 01:51 |
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| javispedro | to "Extras & Applications" >:) | 01:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually, I've got one more point to pull out. | 01:52 |
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| * javispedro notes voting for a bug is the best way to add oneself to the CC list without noise | 01:53 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia can't justifiably rename a community-owned repository. | 01:53 |
| javispedro | that's a good point indeed, the repo is owned by maemo.org after all. | 01:54 |
| * Stskeeps still only believes in the unholy trinity of community os, shared platform, commercial os. governance is way too hard in community governing a commercial project. | 01:54 | |
| GeneralAntilles | If, however, they'd like to come out and discuss a name change with us, I'd welcome that. | 01:54 |
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| * javispedro doesn't believe at all in the bazaar model, but that's another story | 01:55 | |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: that's basically why voting was invented | 01:55 |
| lbt | shhhh... too noisy in this cathedral | 01:55 |
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| * timeless_mbp watches die hard while a shell script reorganizes the world | 01:56 | |
| Stskeeps | i believe in it if it there is getting money traded in the bazaar | 01:56 |
| javispedro | :) | 01:56 |
| * GeneralAntilles sighs. | 01:59 | |
| GeneralAntilles | My neighbors like to smoke pot in their bathroom | 01:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | which of course means my bathroom smells overwhelmingly of pot | 01:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | So I get a headache every time I use the bathroom. . . . | 01:59 |
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| javispedro | that sounds funny, but sucks. | 02:02 |
| javispedro | i would sue them without hesitation. | 02:02 |
| PortaLu | GeneralAntilles: attach a tube to the gas, poke it through their window | 02:03 |
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| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, by the way, any blogs in the pipeline? | 02:08 |
| GAN900 | I haven't seen one in months. | 02:08 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: have you seen my monkey blogs? | 02:09 |
| timeless_mbp | i haven't published them | 02:09 |
| timeless_mbp | i should | 02:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, no. | 02:14 |
| timeless_mbp | moneksy start at 159 | 02:15 |
| timeless_mbp | and there are 3 | 02:15 |
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| wiretapped | GeneralAntilles: have you talked to your neighbors about this? | 02:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, thing I should buy them some Glade? ;) "Hey, these are pretty good for when you're smoking pot in the bathroom." | 02:27 |
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| wiretapped | that would be funny | 02:30 |
| *** will has quit IRC | 02:30 | |
| wiretapped | but just mentioning that (a) you can smell it and (b) are bothered by smelling it | 02:30 |
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| wiretapped | would probably solve the problem | 02:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | All of those stairs, though. . . . :P | 02:31 |
| wiretapped | heh | 02:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: did you read them? | 02:33 |
| * timeless_mbp kicks virtualbox's networking stack | 02:33 | |
| *** Mousey is now known as Microsoft | 02:33 | |
| *** Microsoft is now known as Mousey | 02:34 | |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, yes, funny. | 02:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | i should write one or two on api design and impl | 02:34 |
| timeless_mbp | something to explain how not to pick apis to use in products | 02:34 |
| timeless_mbp | um | 02:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | my Mer has a dns entry from comcast.net | 02:35 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders how it managed that | 02:35 | |
| timeless_mbp | hsdl.ca.comcast.net | 02:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Blame johnx? | 02:36 |
| timeless_mbp | s/l/1/ | 02:36 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: hsd1.ca.comcast.net | 02:36 |
| timeless_mbp | why? | 02:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | He's on Comcast | 02:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | He works on Mer. | 02:36 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: in where? | 02:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | /etc/resolv.conf | 02:36 |
| timeless_mbp | probably means my last dns was from my visit to CA last week | 02:37 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 02:37 |
| Stskeeps | bridged | 02:37 |
| timeless_mbp | too bad i don't really want taht | 02:37 |
| timeless_mbp | s/taht/that/ | 02:37 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: too bad i don't really want that | 02:37 |
| timeless_mbp | how do i kick it? | 02:37 |
| timeless_mbp | i rebooted and down/up'd the network on both sides.. | 02:37 |
| Stskeeps | reconnect with networkmanager or dhclient eth0 | 02:38 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, ping | 02:40 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: pong | 02:40 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, there's a bank holiday weekend in spain ? | 02:40 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, or something similar happening in the same weekend as the maemo-BCN event | 02:42 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: Nothing that I know off... | 02:42 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, I'm asking because of this tweet: https://twitter.com/_kriksu/status/5614238170 | 02:43 |
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| javispedro | VDVsx: well, dec 6th & 8th are indeed national holidays, but I think Quim knew that and is the reason for the "long weekend" motto... | 02:44 |
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| javispedro | stupid me learns that bank holiday is exactly what I mean with "national holiday" | 02:48 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, yeah, I learned that too :P | 02:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol | 02:53 |
| pupnik | vala is pretty cool | 02:54 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: I guess certain people may have "some other plans" -- hopefully Citilab itself doesn't, which should be qgil's main priority if he didn't know :P | 02:55 |
| javispedro | pupnik: agreed, shows promise. | 02:56 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, yup | 02:57 |
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| pupnik | is there a youtube fmÃt that works with n8x0 mplayer? i tried &fmt=6 but that yields video at 1/2 speed, with normal speed audio | 03:11 |
| pupnik | was hoping to find a youtube fmt= that works well | 03:12 |
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| pupnik | and curse them for such a heavy video format | 03:12 |
| Stskeeps | i will be interviewed at http://www.tllts.org/ in about 8 minutes if anyone wants to listen in | 03:21 |
| Stskeeps | about the Mer project | 03:22 |
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| zerojay | tits.org? | 03:30 |
| zerojay | oh. | 03:30 |
| zerojay | damn font. | 03:30 |
| pupnik | who has feed for stskeeps interview? | 03:30 |
| pupnik | url, stream | 03:31 |
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| crashanddie | Stskeeps, evening | 03:35 |
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| pupnik | awesome interview | 03:36 |
| *** VDVsx has quit IRC | 03:36 | |
| pupnik | was on front page - my browser skipped past the fp- | 03:36 |
| pupnik | stream dead? | 03:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Working here. | 03:40 |
| pupnik | can not connect here any more | 03:41 |
| pupnik | is the internet getting slower? | 03:42 |
| luke-jr | pupnik: no, we're capping you. | 03:43 |
| pupnik | stream back on setbit | 03:43 |
| wiretapped | in case anyone here doesn't know how IRC works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ | 03:44 |
| pupnik | wow interviewer is semi awol | 03:46 |
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| Robot101 | hmm, does finefm on Mer work with ke-recv to do SD card plugging/unplugging magic? | 03:47 |
| pupnik | SHUT THAT WOMAN UP | 03:47 |
| pupnik | STREAM BROKE AGAIN | 03:47 |
| GuySoft | hey all, is there any document on the net to explain how to download a big area for maemo mapper and save it on the device? I am going to another country and wont have any internet | 03:53 |
| lcuk | take photos, screenshots of maps and other interesting things as normal pictures. | 03:54 |
| wiretapped | GuySoft: https://garage.maemo.org/viewvc/trunk/data/help/en_US/maemomapper.xml?root=maemo-mapper#help_maemomapper_mapman_Area_heading | 03:54 |
| lcuk | if any of your mapping solutions fails you will have them with you locally | 03:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | They need more prepared questions. | 03:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Poor Carsten. | 03:55 |
| wiretapped | where is this stream? | 03:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://stream.tllts.org:8000/tllts | 03:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The IRC channel sucks, too. | 03:56 |
| pupnik | good job to Stskeeps | 03:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Let's talk about Droid!" | 03:57 |
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| GuySoft | strange, why all the google street maps fail to download?? | 04:07 |
| wiretapped | not sure, but i noticed that recently too :( | 04:09 |
| wiretapped | google must've changed something | 04:09 |
| GuySoft | i carnt pull a thing, google must have changed something | 04:09 |
| wiretapped | OSM and VE both worked when i tried a week ago | 04:09 |
| wiretapped | but no google :( | 04:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not impressed by this show or its audience. | 04:09 |
| wiretapped | OSM has gotten quite good lately though | 04:09 |
| wiretapped | all these devices with linux based OSes... LOL | 04:10 |
| wiretapped | good response to that from stskeeps | 04:10 |
| GuySoft | i am going to sharem in Egypt.. i am not sure how many geeks with free time aree there | 04:11 |
| GuySoft | are* | 04:11 |
| wiretapped | stream died | 04:15 |
| wiretapped | connection refused | 04:15 |
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| GuySoft | yes maemo mapper carnt access google anymore | 04:17 |
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| GuySoft | will maemo mapper manage to download 357000 maps?? | 04:22 |
| wiretapped | for one thing, if your filesystem block size is 4KB that will require 1.3GB... | 04:24 |
| wiretapped | and the map provider might block you before you're done | 04:25 |
| guysoft42 | wirelessdreamer, i have 4G free on the sd | 04:25 |
| guysoft42 | wirelessdreamer, OSM? | 04:25 |
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| wiretapped | but i doubt maemo mapper will stop you | 04:25 |
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| guysoft42 | its taking 175 RAM | 04:25 |
| wiretapped | I don't know what OSM will do... I do know that long ago when google did work, google blocked me after only a few thousand tiles | 04:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Worst. Interviewers. Ever. | 04:26 |
| guysoft42 | ill try.. | 04:26 |
| wiretapped | GeneralAntilles: are you messing with texas? | 04:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anytime! Anywhere! | 04:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, nice job! | 04:36 |
| Stskeeps | thanks | 04:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, you did nearly as well as Quim handling incompetent interviewers. ;) | 04:36 |
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| Stskeeps | jesus, that was rough | 04:49 |
| dmj726 | I can confirm that World of Goo runs in scratchbox! | 04:49 |
| pupnik | congrats :) | 04:51 |
| pupnik | ++ dmj726 | 04:51 |
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| dmj726 | THe application manager won't accept the .deb, but you can just use the .tar.gz version | 04:52 |
| Livingroom | hey everybody | 04:52 |
| Livingroom | anyone know anything about PAN on maemo? | 04:53 |
| Livingroom | so far i've got everything working except DNS | 04:53 |
| dmj726 | Extract it to a folder on the scratchbox install and run it from the command line. | 04:53 |
| Livingroom | i can go to google's IP for example but if i try to use www.google.com it doesnt resolve | 04:53 |
| Livingroom | also now i have issues SSH'ing on my network | 04:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, no kidding. | 04:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, seriously, though, good job. | 04:54 |
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| Livingroom | is there an easy way to reset the network settings on the N800 to default? | 04:56 |
| dmj726 | wait. Does scratchbox use full opengl or es2.0? | 04:56 |
| Robot101 | dmj726: full opengl probably... | 04:58 |
| dmj726 | hmm...may need more than a recompile then | 04:58 |
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| pupnik | Livingroom: tra with another drvice first - oc, laptop | 05:00 |
| pupnik | pc | 05:00 |
| pupnik | try | 05:00 |
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| Livingroom | pupnik: tried it, cant connect into or out of the n800. | 05:20 |
| Livingroom | pupnik: all other computers communicate properly | 05:20 |
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| Livingroom | goddamnit this is pissing me off, now | 05:23 |
| Livingroom | my wifi is not working at all like it's supposed to | 05:23 |
| Livingroom | it's got no throughput, fraught with "no route to host" errors and you cant connect into the device | 05:23 |
| Livingroom | guess i have to reinstall. *sigh* | 05:24 |
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| Livingroom | whats the latest n800 firmware? | 05:32 |
| Livingroom | and how do i tell what version i have? | 05:32 |
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| penguinbait | control panel > About | 05:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | 47-3 | 05:40 |
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| dmj726 | I see usbcontrol in the repos. Is that any indication of usb host capacity? | 05:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | dmj726, no. | 05:51 |
| dmj726 | ok | 05:51 |
| Livingroom | i have version 5.2008.43-7 | 05:51 |
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| * timeless_mbp frowns | 06:07 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok, so... i killed my resolv.conf | 06:07 |
| timeless_mbp | and rebooted | 06:07 |
| timeless_mbp | and got the comcast dns entry back | 06:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Comcast: It's Virally Comcastic | 06:13 |
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| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: I actualy have pretty good experiance with Comcast internet | 06:28 |
| Xisdibik | Considering we pay for 12mbps down 2-3 mbps up, and get 16mbps down, 9mbps up :) | 06:28 |
| dmj726 | Right now I'm getting ~8 MBps down | 06:29 |
| Xisdibik | what part of the world are you in? | 06:29 |
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| dmj726 | USA I'm at a dorm | 06:29 |
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| Xisdibik | dorms have comcast? | 06:29 |
| dmj726 | no | 06:29 |
| dmj726 | ...COmcast was slower | 06:30 |
| Xisdibik | wow really | 06:30 |
| Xisdibik | what part of the US of A | 06:30 |
| dmj726 | Also I get about the same up speed as down | 06:30 |
| Xisdibik | well thats because there on a direct LAN | 06:30 |
| dmj726 | Keep in mind that I said 8 MBps not Mbps | 06:30 |
| Xisdibik | ah, heh | 06:30 |
| dmj726 | also comcast has a cap of 250 GB per month | 06:31 |
| Xisdibik | oh ur not even the person who was talking about comcast :P | 06:31 |
| Xisdibik | well most dorms have a cap | 06:31 |
| Xisdibik | my schools was 10GB/week | 06:31 |
| dmj726 | illinois | 06:31 |
| luke-jr | 10 GB/week is ridiculously low | 06:31 |
| Xisdibik | indeed luke-jr | 06:31 |
| dmj726 | I'm not at a university dorm, so we don't have a cap | 06:31 |
| Xisdibik | dorm for what then? | 06:32 |
| dmj726 | it's a private dorm at the university | 06:32 |
| luke-jr | 10 GB/week = 32 kbps | 06:32 |
| dmj726 | better than the university run ones | 06:32 |
| luke-jr | wait, no | 06:32 |
| luke-jr | 125 kbps | 06:32 |
| luke-jr | 250 GB cap is at least slightly reasonable-- over 700 kbps | 06:33 |
| Xisdibik | yea, and most people dont use that much :P | 06:33 |
| Xisdibik | do you really need to torrent 250GB / month? | 06:33 |
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| dmj726 | I never went over it, but I don't like the feeling of that. | 06:34 |
| luke-jr | unlikely | 06:34 |
| Xisdibik | meh alot of things have limits | 06:34 |
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| dmj726 | the 250 GB thing is also listed as unlimited | 06:34 |
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| luke-jr | my past month was merely 92 GB combined up+down | 06:34 |
| Xisdibik | even vonage and stuff like that with "unlimited minutes" actualy have some rediculously high cap, but its there | 06:35 |
| dmj726 | 250 total up and down | 06:35 |
| luke-jr | that's false advertising then | 06:35 |
| luke-jr | go for a class action lawsuit -.- | 06:35 |
| Xisdibik | no, its some legal issue | 06:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, AOL definition. | 06:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meaning you can use it at any time. | 06:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lawsuit is unlikely to work. | 06:35 |
| luke-jr | ? | 06:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Unlimited" doesn't mean you can use as much bandwidth as you want, it means you can use it as often as you want. | 06:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's from the AOL dial-up days. | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | pfft | 06:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I know. | 06:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | But what are you gonna do? | 06:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Courts will uphold their "definition". | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | actually, it does kinda make sense there | 06:37 |
| dmj726 | The "announcement" of the 250 GB cap was in order to prevent legal action, since they got caught doing it in certain places without it being publicly know. | 06:37 |
| luke-jr | it's not like they contrast it with other caps | 06:37 |
| luke-jr | I don't know what excuse Vonage might have | 06:37 |
| dmj726 | That said, I'm happy with my dorm internet, actually unlimited, fast, symetric connection | 06:38 |
| dmj726 | ...Ubuntu downloads in 2 minutes. | 06:38 |
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| Cray | guys, fresh install on an n800- extremely slow wifi connectivity. worked before same router. what gives? | 06:44 |
| RedPenguin | Is it a Linksys router? If so, unplugging those seems to boost speed. | 06:45 |
| RedPenguin | Note: Other brands due apply as well. | 06:45 |
| Cray | no, it's a belkin | 06:46 |
| RedPenguin | I would try it anyway | 06:47 |
| Cray | um | 06:47 |
| Cray | unplugging the router, i.e. "depriving your NAT-box of Electricity" tends to slow things down to the point of unusability | 06:47 |
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| RedPenguin | odd, my network always snapped back to normal after plugging it back in | 06:48 |
| RedPenguin | I was hoping that my previous statement implied to plug it back in after unplugging it. | 06:49 |
| RedPenguin | Guess power cycle would have been a much better way of saying it. | 06:49 |
| luke-jr | lol | 06:52 |
| Cray | oh | 06:53 |
| Cray | well | 06:53 |
| Cray | yeah i did that 3 times already | 06:53 |
| RedPenguin | Well, that obviously that isn't going to help then. | 06:53 |
| luke-jr | unless you're insane | 06:54 |
| luke-jr | if so, try again | 06:54 |
| RedPenguin | Like I said, every Linksys I've ever seen seems to get a "temporary clog" to where no connections go through it, but unplugging it fixes that. | 06:55 |
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| luke-jr | meh, it's your fault for using ugly hacks like NAT | 06:56 |
| luke-jr | should be assigning globally routable IPs to every toaster and mouse | 06:57 |
| dmj726 | Yeah, nice static IP addresses for all! | 06:57 |
| dmj726 | That way I can host a dozen web servers from home. | 06:57 |
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| dmj726 | and one from my pocket! | 06:58 |
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| luke-jr | web servers don't need dedicated IPs... | 06:58 |
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| dmj726 | no, but it makes things nicer, especially if the ip isn't changing every couple days | 06:58 |
| RedPenguin | I one time tried to picture life, without DNS with commericals saying, instead of Google It, 74.125.53.100 It! | 06:59 |
| dmj726 | hehe | 07:00 |
| RedPenguin | I'm pretty much the only person in all of my computer friends that actually can remember an IP. Others can't even remember their own. | 07:01 |
| dmj726 | dns works better if it doesn't have to keep track of random ip changes | 07:01 |
| dmj726 | I can remember a limited set | 07:01 |
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| RedPenguin | Same here, but seems your own IP would be the number one to remember. | 07:02 |
| luke-jr | RedPenguin: I can memorize pi, but IPs are just too long :/ | 07:02 |
| RedPenguin | Every single number of pi? | 07:02 |
| luke-jr | lol no | 07:03 |
| dmj726 | luke-jr: Please type all of pi in this channel. | 07:03 |
| luke-jr | just 30-50 digits | 07:03 |
| RedPenguin | oh | 07:03 |
| luke-jr | I think back in the old IPv4 days I had a few memorized. | 07:04 |
| luke-jr | but they were much shorter then | 07:04 |
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| RedPenguin | Netmasks are always fun, because people can't just say 255x3 or something | 07:10 |
| RedPenguin | They make you sit through 255 DOT 255 DOT 255 DOT 0 | 07:11 |
| Cray | AAAUGH this is F*WUFGHS aggravating | 07:11 |
| Cray | why is my wifi throughput almost NIL???????? | 07:11 |
| Cray | how can i "hard reset" the n800 back to factory? | 07:11 |
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| Nitial | re-flash it? | 07:14 |
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| Cray | magically, my throughput seems to have returned | 07:24 |
| Cray | what | 07:24 |
| Cray | the | 07:24 |
| Cray | fark | 07:24 |
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| Cray | now it's gone again *sigh* | 07:28 |
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| Cray | what is the recommended reset method if the device is unresponsive? | 08:00 |
| johnx | ssh :) | 08:01 |
| Klowner | don't shush him, it's a valid question! | 08:02 |
| johnx | :D | 08:02 |
| luke-jr | ;) | 08:02 |
| Cray | lol | 08:03 |
| Cray | my router is haywire, thats my opinion | 08:03 |
| Cray | all internetwork communication is frozen | 08:03 |
| Cray | all wireless devices are suffering from massive lag | 08:03 |
| Cray | or *intranetwork* communication | 08:03 |
| johnx | you've crippled the internet! noooo... | 08:03 |
| Klowner | henceforth known only as the internot | 08:04 |
| Cray | wow this is gay | 08:04 |
| Cray | it's totally f*cked up | 08:04 |
| Cray | Defiant cant talk to Excelsior (my n800) who cant talk to mirand or akira. goddamnit. and enterprise cant ssh to any of them. what the living hell | 08:04 |
| Cray | ever since i enabled wpa | 08:05 |
| Cray | brb. installing backup router | 08:05 |
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| johnx | speaking of b0kenness...I managed to freeze the UI on my n900 and ssh is not responsive, but tapping the screen will un-dim the backlight | 08:07 |
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| Livingroom | emergency backup router installed. testing to commence | 08:08 |
| RST38h | moo all | 08:12 |
| RST38h | Any maemo.org admins here at the moment? | 08:12 |
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| johnx | anyone know how to trick the windows based nokia software update into saving an update image file but not flashing it? | 08:16 |
| blarg | ok | 08:17 |
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| *** blarg is now known as Livingroom | 08:17 | |
| Livingroom | there we go | 08:17 |
| Livingroom | ok | 08:17 |
| Livingroom | with all the crap out of the way, back on target | 08:18 |
| Livingroom | maemo-pan. | 08:18 |
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| Livingroom | anyone here tether their nXXX to an iphone? | 08:18 |
| Livingroom | i'm doing so, but unless i specify an ip for the bnep0 manually, it never grabs an addr from dhcp | 08:18 |
| Livingroom | there's alot of chatter about bad packets or something in the udhcpc -i runtime | 08:19 |
| Livingroom | and then when i manually specify a DNS, it fails to resolve. | 08:19 |
| Livingroom | any suggestions? | 08:19 |
| johnx | have you tethered a linux box to your iphone successfully? | 08:19 |
| Livingroom | hmm | 08:19 |
| Livingroom | no, only windows | 08:19 |
| johnx | but at least windows is ok with it? | 08:19 |
| Livingroom | yup | 08:19 |
| Livingroom | windows xp, 7, mobile 2003se, etc. they all love it | 08:19 |
| johnx | so when you specify an address manually you can ping out to IP addresses with no (or little) packet loss? | 08:19 |
| Livingroom | yes | 08:20 |
| Livingroom | they go right through | 08:20 |
| Livingroom | and i can download files from an ip at like 12k over edge | 08:20 |
| Livingroom | so the connection is very stable | 08:20 |
| johnx | can you nslookup? | 08:20 |
| Livingroom | the iphone lights up in tethering mode, too | 08:20 |
| Livingroom | no | 08:20 |
| Livingroom | i cannot. | 08:20 |
| Livingroom | it does the usual address1 line | 08:20 |
| Livingroom | and then after 3 minutes tells me it cant. | 08:20 |
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| johnx | try this: nslookup google.com 216.239.32.10 | 08:21 |
| johnx | that's ns.google.com | 08:21 |
| Livingroom | hm, ok | 08:21 |
| johnx | let's see if you can access any external DNS at all | 08:21 |
| Livingroom | let me fire up the link. br | 08:21 |
| Livingroom | *brb | 08:21 |
| Livingroom | the lack of DHCP is more than a little annoying, because i have to manually type 3 stupid lines into the system each time i connect | 08:22 |
| Livingroom | ifconfig bnep0 192.168.20.2 up | 08:22 |
| Livingroom | route add default gw 192.168.20.1 | 08:22 |
| johnx | yeah, it's weird that dhcp isn't working | 08:22 |
| Livingroom | then i do echo "nameserver 151.164.1.8" > /tmp/resolv.conf.lo | 08:23 |
| johnx | is this the 'native' iphone tethering? or some jailbreak thing? | 08:24 |
| Livingroom | native | 08:24 |
| Livingroom | which is awesome, i'm still on fw 3.0 lawl | 08:24 |
| johnx | I'd be interested to see the udhcpc output at some point | 08:24 |
| Livingroom | i can show it to you | 08:25 |
| Livingroom | thers about 300 lines of "THIS PACKET IS BAD" | 08:25 |
| Livingroom | and thats right after it assigns a 169.x.x.x | 08:25 |
| Livingroom | ill pipe it to a text file and put it up on nopaste or something in a sec | 08:25 |
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| johnx | alright, first I'd like to see the result of that nslookup though | 08:25 |
| johnx | that'd answer if there's any hope of proceeding | 08:25 |
| Livingroom | ok | 08:25 |
| Livingroom | established the link, adding the settings now | 08:26 |
| Livingroom | trying to anyway. hold up | 08:27 |
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| wazd | heya all | 08:28 |
| RST38h | heya wazd | 08:29 |
| Livingroom | sup wazd | 08:29 |
| johnx | allo wazd | 08:29 |
| Livingroom | hey john, so far all i have is | 08:29 |
| Livingroom | Excelsior:~# nslookup google.com 216.239.32.10 | 08:29 |
| Livingroom | Server: 216.239.32.10 | 08:29 |
| Livingroom | i'm ssh'ed to the iphone, and from there ssh'ed over BT to the n800 | 08:29 |
| Livingroom | if you want, ill open up the NAT and you can ssh in | 08:29 |
| luke-jr | Google is 2001:4860:b004::68 | 08:29 |
| Livingroom | it's just sitting here too | 08:30 |
| johnx | luke-jr, I think I'm going to replace my nslookup with a script that bothers you on IRC to ask IPs :D | 08:30 |
| johnx | Livingroom, alright | 08:30 |
| Livingroom | ok | 08:30 |
| Livingroom | Address 1: 216.239.32.10 | 08:30 |
| Livingroom | nslookup: can't resolve 'google.com' | 08:30 |
| luke-jr | johnx: don't whine about lag. | 08:30 |
| johnx | try replacing the IP for the server with the one of your carrier's DNS | 08:30 |
| luke-jr | dig AAAA ipv6.google.com @4.2.2.2 | 08:31 |
| luke-jr | kthx | 08:31 |
| Livingroom | i did it with Server: 151.164.1.8 | 08:31 |
| Livingroom | which i'm currently pinging in another xterm with a 400~ ms ping | 08:31 |
| luke-jr | Livingroom: try mtr | 08:31 |
| Livingroom | mtr? | 08:31 |
| johnx | luke-jr, maemo4 package? | 08:31 |
| luke-jr | yeah, mtr is cool | 08:31 |
| luke-jr | johnx: ? | 08:31 |
| Livingroom | ~mtr | 08:31 |
| infobot | Network diagnostic tool. URL: http://www.bitwizard.nl/mtr/ | 08:31 |
| johnx | luke-jr, is there one? | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | johnx: no clue. Maemo 4 is obsolete and crappy. | 08:32 |
| Livingroom | problem is, luke, i can use IPs ok with browser, apt, etc. but domains refuse to lookup | 08:32 |
| Livingroom | here's the deal | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | Livingroom: echo nameserver 4.2.2.2 > /etc/resolv.conf | 08:32 |
| Livingroom | the n800 is running maemo-pan to my iphone (but dhcp doesnt work so i'm specifying an addr manually) the iphone is on edge and its showing tether and is relaying packets properly | 08:33 |
| johnx | luke-jr, you know that's not a helpful thing to do on maemo4... | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | johnx: no? I don't use Maemo4 and you know it | 08:33 |
| Livingroom | longer pause this time but still | 08:33 |
| Livingroom | Address 1: 151.164.1.8 | 08:33 |
| Livingroom | nslookup: can't resolve 'google.com' | 08:33 |
| johnx | luke-jr, so don't give people suggestions that you're not sure won't break their setup | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | johnx: if it breaks Maemo, then Maemo is broken | 08:33 |
| johnx | luke-jr, maemo is broken | 08:34 |
| Livingroom | resolv.conf shows nameserver 127.0.0.1 | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | Livingroom: can you mtr 4.2.2.2? | 08:34 |
| Livingroom | i dont have mtr | 08:34 |
| Livingroom | and 4.2.2.2 is not on my local subnet | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | of course it isn't | 08:34 |
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| johnx | Livingroom, just for fun, why not try nslookup again and use your iphone as the DNS? | 08:35 |
| luke-jr | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/mtr-tiny/ | 08:35 |
| johnx | luke-jr, we've already established that he can't seem to reach DNS servers that are off his network | 08:35 |
| Livingroom | ok so | 08:35 |
| Livingroom | using 127.x as the dns lit up my screen | 08:35 |
| Livingroom | which was dormant | 08:35 |
| Livingroom | but no dice. | 08:35 |
| luke-jr | iPhone isn't 127.x | 08:35 |
| Livingroom | no, the tablet is though | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | oh | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | ! | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | he said try using iphone IP | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | :p | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | use my IPHONE as the DNS lawl | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | brb | 08:36 |
| johnx | :) | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | holy crap | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | fast response | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | Excelsior:/etc# nslookup google.com 192.168.20.1 | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | Server: 192.168.20.1 | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | Address 1: 192.168.20.1 | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | nslookup: can't resolve 'google.com' | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | instantaneous answer | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | no delay | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | oh, Google is down. that's why | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | ... | 08:36 |
| Livingroom | lies | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | j/k :) | 08:36 |
| johnx | well, it probably refused the connection... | 08:37 |
| luke-jr | Livingroom: does it work from the iPhone? | 08:37 |
| Livingroom | hm | 08:37 |
| Livingroom | yes | 08:37 |
| Livingroom | it does | 08:37 |
| Livingroom | splendidly | 08:37 |
| luke-jr | can you SSH to iPhone? | 08:37 |
| Livingroom | yes | 08:37 |
| johnx | I wonder how dns normally works when tethered to an iphone... | 08:37 |
| Livingroom | and vice versa | 08:37 |
| Livingroom | in fact my windows pc which i'm on now is SSH'ed to the iphone which in turn i SSH'ed to the n800 | 08:37 |
| luke-jr | setup a DNS server that calls "ssh iphone dig "$1" +short" for lookups :)O | 08:38 |
| Livingroom | the iphone has a version of BIND/DNS on it | 08:38 |
| luke-jr | not running? | 08:38 |
| Livingroom | let me try to start it | 08:38 |
| johnx | yeah, then nmap it to see if it's really working | 08:38 |
| luke-jr | perhaps configured to only bind loopback? | 08:39 |
| johnx | full bind would be insane though | 08:39 |
| johnx | hopefully it's dnsmasq or similar | 08:39 |
| luke-jr | yeah, it really would lol | 08:39 |
| johnx | luke-jr, would explain why the iphone can't multitask :D | 08:39 |
| Livingroom | this bind is 3rd party, installed from apt/cydia | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | XD | 08:40 |
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| johnx | might be interesting to get nmap on the n800 just to help troubleshoot | 08:40 |
| johnx | I don't think mtr will be helpful as I have a feeling some firewall along the way isn't letting connections to :53 pass | 08:41 |
| luke-jr | it would tell us that :p | 08:41 |
| johnx | it can connect on arbitrary ports? | 08:41 |
| luke-jr | eh, I would assume so | 08:42 |
| luke-jr | tracepath can at least | 08:42 |
| * johnx finds out | 08:42 | |
| johnx | if it can, I don't know how you specify that | 08:42 |
| Livingroom | hm | 08:42 |
| Livingroom | bind was not installed correctly | 08:42 |
| johnx | seems to be strictly ICMP | 08:42 |
| Livingroom | i'm reinstalling | 08:42 |
| Livingroom | ok | 08:43 |
| Livingroom | it's installed | 08:43 |
| luke-jr | ... | 08:43 |
| Livingroom | bind is not running | 08:44 |
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| Livingroom | odd | 08:44 |
| Livingroom | AHA | 08:46 |
| Livingroom | BEHOLD: | 08:46 |
| Livingroom | there is nothing in netstat -an for LISTEN on port *53 | 08:46 |
| Livingroom | on the iphone | 08:46 |
| Livingroom | therefore, no DNS service is on the iphone. | 08:46 |
| johnx | I figured that was why nslookup cam back so quick | 08:46 |
| johnx | so then the next question is: how is the windows maching getting dns out? | 08:46 |
| johnx | maybe proxying it? | 08:47 |
| Livingroom | no | 08:47 |
| Livingroom | the windows is just going to 151.164.1.8 like it's supposed to | 08:47 |
| johnx | might be interesting to do a quick install of nmap on the n800 from extras | 08:48 |
| johnx | then: nmap -P0 151.164.1.8 | 08:48 |
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| Livingroom | ok one sec | 08:49 |
| johnx | and you should make a script starting tethering so you don't go insane :) | 08:50 |
| Livingroom | i need to edit the one that comes with maemo-pan | 08:50 |
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| johnx | http://pastebin.ca/1667719 | 08:50 |
| Livingroom | woah woah woah woah woah | 08:50 |
| Livingroom | apt cant resolve now that i switched over to wifi | 08:51 |
| johnx | huh | 08:51 |
| Livingroom | i cant resolve any hostnames | 08:51 |
| johnx | probably trying to query that at&t dns server | 08:51 |
| wazd | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34311 oh my... | 08:52 |
| Livingroom | i'm a bit put off from the n900 | 08:53 |
| Livingroom | i liked n800 because it didnt require a carrier | 08:53 |
| johnx | the n900 doesn't either | 08:53 |
| johnx | runs just fine without a sim | 08:53 |
| Livingroom | is it sold without one though? | 08:53 |
| johnx | in the UK you can get it on contract, but everywhere else I think it's mostly sold unlocked | 08:54 |
| Livingroom | i rebooted the n800 and now it can resolve | 08:54 |
| Livingroom | do i need to chmod my shellscript? | 08:54 |
| Livingroom | like 777 or something? to execute it? | 08:54 |
| johnx | yeah | 08:54 |
| johnx | chmod +x myscript.sh | 08:55 |
| johnx | and that one needs to be run as root of course ;) | 08:55 |
| * wazd ponders bout making a video with his thoughts about this. It would be censored immediately though | 08:55 | |
| Livingroom | humm? | 08:55 |
| Livingroom | ok nmap is here | 08:55 |
| Livingroom | should i "test" it before i go back on the iphone? | 08:56 |
| johnx | might as well | 08:56 |
| johnx | try nmap 4.2.2.1 and nmap <that at&t ns> | 08:56 |
| Livingroom | running it on wifi | 08:56 |
| Livingroom | i did the -P0 too | 08:56 |
| Livingroom | it shows ports | 08:56 |
| Livingroom | 4.2.2.2 shows no ports. but the ATT one shows 3 porst | 08:57 |
| Livingroom | going on iphone tether now | 08:57 |
| johnx | eh eh | 08:57 |
| johnx | hang on | 08:57 |
| johnx | you should definitely see 53/tcp open domain | 08:59 |
| johnx | on 4.2.2.1 | 08:59 |
| johnx | same with 216.239.32.10 | 08:59 |
| Livingroom | i didnt see 53 on either of the addrs | 08:59 |
| johnx | and you did run with -P0? | 08:59 |
| johnx | that's a zero not an oh | 09:00 |
| Livingroom | yes, capital P | 09:00 |
| Livingroom | and zero | 09:00 |
| Livingroom | nmap runs on the iphone tether and reports ports 21, 22, and 443 on IP 151.164.1.8 | 09:01 |
| johnx | which explains why you can't use it to lookup IP addresses :) | 09:01 |
| johnx | from there it might be interesting to install nmap on the iphone. I assume cydia has it | 09:01 |
| Livingroom | yes. installing now | 09:02 |
| johnx | s/lookup IP addresses/lookup DNS names/ <- duuuh | 09:02 |
| Livingroom | hm | 09:03 |
| Livingroom | iphone has weird error messages | 09:03 |
| Livingroom | i'm pasting them one sec | 09:03 |
| Livingroom | http://pastebin.ca/1667734 | 09:03 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: you around? | 09:04 |
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| Chani | so... has anyone else noticed that the thired row of the symbol table on the n900 doesn't work? | 09:06 |
| Chani | i can't type a tilde | 09:06 |
| suihkulokki | it is a "dead" char | 09:07 |
| luke-jr | Livingroom: uh, you mean N800 doesn't *support* a carrier. | 09:07 |
| Chani | or the .. caretz. the one for sowing powrs | 09:07 |
| Chani | *caret | 09:07 |
| Chani | ? | 09:07 |
| suihkulokki | Chani: press the ~ and a to get a ã | 09:07 |
| Chani | suihkulokki: you misunderstand | 09:08 |
| suihkulokki | if you want just ~ , press tilda and space | 09:08 |
| Livingroom | john you still around? | 09:08 |
| Chani | the tilde. the characetr you typed aftter "press a". i can.t use it on my n900 | 09:08 |
| Chani | that t,whole row of the symbol table isn.t respodiing | 09:09 |
| johnx | Livingroom, yup | 09:10 |
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| suihkulokki | Chani: I just used n900 to do those chars using the symbol table | 09:10 |
| johnx | Livingroom, not exactly surprising that nmap can't figure out how to get names resolved for it | 09:10 |
| Livingroom | why is that? | 09:10 |
| Livingroom | remember, that message was on the iphone | 09:10 |
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| johnx | yes | 09:10 |
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| suihkulokki | àáâãä¡¿ | 09:11 |
| johnx | I think nmap tries to resolv names itself instead of using libc | 09:11 |
| suihkulokki | `´^~¨ | 09:11 |
| johnx | but the question is: does it show 53 is open on the at&t nameserver? | 09:11 |
| Chani | ~ fffk | 09:11 |
| Chani | [C | 09:11 |
| Chani | ffkdhfhfdhdhgggf | 09:11 |
| Chani | ~. | 09:11 |
| Chani | dfvbfjukivb wrlops[Ap, | 09:11 |
| infobot | . | 09:11 |
| Chani | fjfjfggggg | 09:11 |
| Livingroom | no, it does not johnx | 09:12 |
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| johnx | Chani, first of all: stop that | 09:12 |
| *** k-p has joined #maemo | 09:12 | |
| johnx | second, open the symbol board, press ~, then press the hardware spacebar | 09:12 |
| Livingroom | in fact, it doesnt show it open on 4.2.2.2 or 151.164.1.8 or 216.239.32.10 | 09:12 |
| Chani | ~.fvdbkliflvbfjuvf | 09:12 |
| Chani | sorry | 09:13 |
| Chani | wifi keeps cutting out | 09:13 |
| johnx | Livingroom, well, I'm totally stumped how it's supposed to be working then. I think I'm not understanding what's really happening when it's tethered to windows | 09:13 |
| Chani | i wasn.t seeing any of that :/ | 09:13 |
| johnx | Chani, no worries. :) I thought you were trying to be annoying | 09:13 |
| Livingroom | iunno | 09:13 |
| johnx | also, I really don't get how nmap isn't able to connect to :53, and yet the rest of the iphone can | 09:14 |
| Livingroom | let me tether to windows and see what ifconfig says about it | 09:14 |
| Livingroom | brb | 09:14 |
| Livingroom | also | 09:14 |
| Livingroom | i think alot of this had to do wtih dhcp failing | 09:14 |
| Livingroom | dhcp is _supposed_ to give it the dns server info | 09:14 |
| Chani | ok... so the n900 is doing what *looks* like a tilde (losing points for identical buttons behaving differently). but thatt character is NOT a tilde, which is really not cool. ssh is not recognising it as a control character so it must be something else that just looks exactly like a tilde | 09:16 |
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| Chani | kinda like microsoft quotes :P | 09:17 |
| pupnik | back to day zero. ascii | 09:17 |
| Chani | except this actually breaks functions | 09:17 |
| Livingroom | microsoft quotes sounds like a failed AI for Win 3.1 that mimicked steven wright. | 09:18 |
| suihkulokki | it is a tilde | 09:18 |
| Chani | i can't kill ssh. that combined with the wifi freezing up regularly is going to be way too annoying | 09:18 |
| johnx | Chani, it's a tilde. cd ~ works on my n900 | 09:18 |
| Chani | suihkulokki: no; it just looks like one | 09:19 |
| Chani | johnx: really: | 09:19 |
| Chani | : | 09:19 |
| Livingroom | johnx brb | 09:19 |
| Chani | : | 09:19 |
| Chani | argh. | 09:19 |
| johnx | yes really Chani | 09:19 |
| johnx | I just did it | 09:19 |
| suihkulokki | me too | 09:19 |
| Chani | Vme tries again | 09:19 |
| Shapeshifter | Chani: your ":" also just looks like a colon? | 09:19 |
| Chani | ~. | 09:19 |
| Shapeshifter | but is actually a question mark :P | 09:19 |
| infobot | . | 09:19 |
| Chani | see: | 09:19 |
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| johnx | Chani, also, if by "wifi freezing" you mean it sometimes takes forever to ssh *into* the n900, then that's kind of unavoidable when it's using such agressive power saving settings | 09:20 |
| Chani | enter_tilde_dot doesn't work :/ | 09:20 |
| johnx | what is that supposed to do? | 09:20 |
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| Chani | see: | 09:21 |
| suihkulokki | johnx: not unavoidable, just need a newer firmware | 09:21 |
| Chani | johnx: no; i mean it thinks it is online but cant receie any data | 09:21 |
| johnx | oh weird. I didn't know it did that to ssh | 09:21 |
| Chani | no thata is the wifi problem | 09:22 |
| suihkulokki | someone need to make a "howto to use tilde on n900" youtube video for chani | 09:22 |
| johnx | suihkulokki, really? I guess I haven't experienced that problem yet then | 09:22 |
| pupnik | i keep a ping running if im on AC power at homed | 09:22 |
| Chani | enter tilde dot is the sequence that disconnects ssh no matter how messed up it is | 09:22 |
| johnx | Chani, I'll test it here | 09:22 |
| *** blarg has joined #maemo | 09:22 | |
| blarg | ok | 09:22 |
| blarg | i cant | 09:22 |
| blarg | what the crap | 09:22 |
| pupnik | ... | 09:22 |
| suihkulokki | ~. | 09:22 |
| infobot | . | 09:23 |
| Chani | somehow the n900 is breakingthst | 09:23 |
| Shapeshifter | Chani: yay. didn't know that | 09:23 |
| *** blarg is now known as cray | 09:23 | |
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| johnx | Chani, it works here | 09:23 |
| *** cray is now known as Livingroom | 09:23 | |
| johnx | is it timing sensitive? | 09:23 |
| Livingroom | johnx i have to hit the hay | 09:23 |
| Livingroom | and now windows doesnt want to tether | 09:23 |
| Livingroom | so something may be screwed up | 09:24 |
| pupnik | maybe some languages have probs | 09:24 |
| suihkulokki | tilde is still ascii so it isn't utf8 problem? | 09:24 |
| pupnik | ok | 09:24 |
| johnx | Livingroom, alright. I fixed it to work as well as it does on windows, just like you asked! | 09:24 |
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| Livingroom | johnx ROFL | 09:25 |
| Shapeshifter | Has someone with an n900 tried tethering through bluetooth and can say anything about battery life while using it like that for general web surfing without heavy transfers? | 09:25 |
| Chani | argh i.m offline again | 09:25 |
| Chani | blah | 09:26 |
| Livingroom | OH MY GOD please DONT SAY TETHERING | 09:26 |
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| Shapeshifter | mh? | 09:26 |
| johnx | heh. I never had bad luck tethering my n800 to an se "dumb phone" :) | 09:26 |
| Livingroom | i shouldve leveled to 80 tonight instead i did this :( | 09:27 |
| Chani | johnx: is not time sensiitive but you have to enter exactly those characters in that sequence. no others. cd ~ does work though | 09:27 |
| Chani | because of this i have to close the window on every disconnect | 09:27 |
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| johnx | well, all I can say is the ssh disconnect trick works just fine here on 41-10 firmware | 09:28 |
| Livingroom | johnx windows will connect but not aquire an IP | 09:28 |
| Chani | johnx: weiiird | 09:28 |
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| johnx | Livingroom, woo! un-jailbreak and return to apple :) | 09:29 |
| Livingroom | haha yeah no. | 09:29 |
| Livingroom | it worked before :P | 09:29 |
| Livingroom | gonna try win7 brb | 09:29 |
| johnx | if it fails there, might want to remove bind | 09:30 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh, tethering via wlan | 09:30 |
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| Chani | johnx: mine's 42_11 | 09:30 |
| Livingroom | i already removed bind | 09:30 |
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| Livingroom | i also found my old dongle, going to try that with the widcomm stack instead of bluesoleil | 09:30 |
| johnx | I always find it remarkable how some companies get this neat little set of things right, and everything else so incredibly wrong :) | 09:31 |
| Chani | i really wonder why they put the apostrophe on fn. do maemo developers not use contractions? | 09:31 |
| Livingroom | fuck, widcomm stack doesnt work. wow, i'm having ALL the luck tonight | 09:31 |
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| pupnik | thninking of what johnx ? | 09:31 |
| johnx | pupnik, apple doing such a good job on so many things, and botching others so badly on the iphone | 09:32 |
| pupnik | oh | 09:32 |
| Livingroom | i'm starting to doubt that apple is to blame for this | 09:32 |
| Livingroom | because it worked before | 09:32 |
| Chani | hmm. the again . and , are the only non-alpha characters to get their own key | 09:32 |
| Livingroom | and now it doesnt | 09:32 |
| Livingroom | many tinkerings later as root | 09:32 |
| pupnik | always hated apple for reducing the bandwidth between usdr and computer | 09:32 |
| pupnik | user | 09:33 |
| johnx | Livingroom, it's just that every other computer in your house is wrong and your iphone is right? :) | 09:33 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh. | 09:33 |
| Shapeshifter | joikuspot? | 09:33 |
| RST38h | johnx: who cares what apple botches? iphone is shiny! | 09:34 |
| johnx | pupnik, reducing? well, that's fair to say in some cases. but it's more like: increasing the bandwidth for 80% of the users, and cutting it off entirely for the other 20% | 09:34 |
| pupnik | heh ok | 09:34 |
| RST38h | from the revenue viewpoint, that is fine | 09:35 |
| johnx | RST38h, it's the same as being an aerospace engineer and watching in interest as the competitor's shiny new airplane does a half-gainer into a lake | 09:35 |
| johnx | RST38h, and if you're one of those 80% it's like the greatest thing in the world :) | 09:35 |
| RST38h | the shiny new airplane has already been sold, and there is not liability | 09:35 |
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| pupnik | is gainer a US colloquialism? | 09:35 |
| johnx | pupnik, diving terminology :) | 09:36 |
| pupnik | i olnly heard it used in the midwest | 09:36 |
| RST38h | besides, it is easier to make stupid people part with money | 09:36 |
| pupnik | funny word to combine with "airplÃane" - thought i was back in MN | 09:37 |
| johnx | pupnik, watch this video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYjTIVuSEgU , then imagine a 737 doing that :) | 09:37 |
| Livingroom | johnx: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED | 09:38 |
| johnx | Livingroom, no more WMDs in your iphone? | 09:39 |
| pupnik | wondows mobile device | 09:39 |
| Livingroom | johnx: lol, not quite: nothing can BT-tether currently. apparently, the BT-PAN host service on the iphone is damaged. YAY! i get to upgrade my firmware. EPIC. or i can figure out what badly written 3rd party app is breaking it | 09:39 |
| johnx | ahaha. I kinda figured it was something like that | 09:40 |
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| Livingroom | i must now decide if i should go for the broke and take the ultimate plunge or if i should try to fix whats there. cable-tether isnt working either :( | 09:40 |
| Shapeshifter | Livingroom: you have an iphone? | 09:40 |
| Livingroom | thats the worst part. it was working like 3 weeks ago | 09:40 |
| Livingroom | yes | 09:40 |
| Shapeshifter | quite a pain isn't it. | 09:40 |
| johnx | "go for broke" = upgrade firmware? | 09:40 |
| Shapeshifter | sell it? | 09:40 |
| Livingroom | yes, firmware upgrades suck dick. | 09:41 |
| Livingroom | you has to reinstall everything, which is alot for me | 09:41 |
| johnx | ah, all your jailbreaky stuff | 09:41 |
| Livingroom | yes | 09:41 |
| Livingroom | all my...installous stuff | 09:41 |
| pupnik | how do you think ppl can best watch youtube on N8x0? | 09:42 |
| Livingroom | would like to reflash 3.0 but sadly i dont think ill get to | 09:42 |
| johnx | pupnik, mytube or canola | 09:42 |
| pupnik | mytube cant keep up with new youtube - at default format audio drops out | 09:43 |
| johnx | bummer | 09:43 |
| johnx | I saw something really cool the other day: a greasemonkey/userscript to make youtube do the html5 <video> thing | 09:43 |
| pupnik | addint fmt=6 to the youtube string yields smooth sound but 1/2 sppeed video | 09:43 |
| pupnik | maybe there is another &fmt= string that yields playable video on Nokia N8x0 - if someone finds it pls share | 09:44 |
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| pupnik | not sure how that helps | 09:45 |
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| johnx | doesn't help yet, just sharing | 09:46 |
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| Livingroom | johnx, thanks for all your help. going to bed now | 09:51 |
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| Livingroom | johnx you still around?? | 09:58 |
| johnx | yup :) | 09:58 |
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| johnx | you didn't manage to leave for long | 09:58 |
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| Corsac | haha | 09:59 |
| cray | err | 09:59 |
| cray | damnit all to hell | 09:59 |
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| livingroom | ok | 09:59 |
| livingroom | johnx you still around? | 09:59 |
| johnx | yes | 09:59 |
| johnx | still here :) | 09:59 |
| livingroom | ok so | 09:59 |
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| johnx | get a good night's sleep? | 10:00 |
| livingroom | i reset the carrier settings, deactivated tethering, rebooted the phone and now windows will pull down an IP | 10:00 |
| linfl683 | Does someone know a good tutorial, or can tell me how to use gstreamer on my n810. I want to stream video from my cam to a server... | 10:00 |
| livingroom | going to try n800 now | 10:00 |
| livingroom | HOOOOOOOOLLLIEEEEEEEEE SHITTTT | 10:01 |
| livingroom | it F*CKING WORKED | 10:01 |
| pupnik | linfl683: there is a howto. qualÃity is bad | 10:01 |
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| livingroom | it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked it worked | 10:01 |
| linfl683 | pupnik: Where can I find that? | 10:01 |
| _|Nix|_ | Hey! /window 4 | 10:02 |
| _|Nix|_ | Ooops :) | 10:02 |
| johnx | livingroom, congrats :) | 10:02 |
| livingroom | i have the google blowjob logo right now on my n800 | 10:02 |
| livingroom | it DHCPeed | 10:02 |
| livingroom | WOOOOHOOOOOO | 10:02 |
| livingroom | hold on. i'm going to take a picture of this | 10:02 |
| pupnik | think talk.maemo.org. keywords gstreamer camera | 10:02 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:02 |
| pupnik | livingroom, you connected n800 to your wlan? | 10:03 |
| pupnik | hello sir jaffa! | 10:03 |
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| linfl683 | pupnik: Can you get an URL for me or something? please | 10:06 |
| livingroom | pupnik: no, i connected it to my iphone for tethering | 10:07 |
| livingroom | http://img441.imageshack.us/i/picture0007o.jpg/ | 10:08 |
| livingroom | observe MY GREATNESS | 10:08 |
| livingroom | which is thanks in very large part to JohnX | 10:08 |
| livingroom | had he not stuck with me, i'dve never figured it out | 10:08 |
| pupnik | linfl i dont have a url, but the streaming worked right from command line woth gstreamer | 10:08 |
| livingroom | i award you one internet, johnx | 10:09 |
| livingroom | ~johnx | 10:09 |
| johnx | woo! I couldn't have done it without all the little people...which is to say: leprechauns | 10:09 |
| pupnik | linfl683: imagine the worst webcam image you ever saw | 10:09 |
| livingroom | ~learn johnx HE IS EPIC AND AWESOME | 10:09 |
| infobot | I think you lost me on that one, livingroom | 10:09 |
| pupnik | then divide resolution by four | 10:09 |
| johnx | infobot, I don't love you anymore | 10:09 |
| livingroom | lol | 10:10 |
| linfl683 | pupnik: Hahah ok | 10:10 |
| infobot | You don't love you anymore? | 10:10 |
| johnx | uhm, but yeah, it's just my AR troubleshooting | 10:10 |
| johnx | infobot, die in a fire | 10:10 |
| * infobot murders in a fire, takes two shots to the head then crumples to the ground, lifeless... | 10:10 | |
| johnx | O_O; I never thought he'd go through with it | 10:10 |
| livingroom | ~topic add johnx | 10:10 |
| *** infobot changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt | Q&A and Extras-testing discussion - November 10, 14:30 UTC @ #maemo-meeting - http://tinyurl.com/yfjglvd || johnx" | 10:10 | |
| livingroom | ~topic add IS EPIC | 10:11 |
| *** infobot changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt | Q&A and Extras-testing discussion - November 10, 14:30 UTC @ #maemo-meeting - http://tinyurl.com/yfjglvd || johnx || IS EPIC" | 10:11 | |
| johnx | alright. little to far :) | 10:11 |
| livingroom | lol i'm just excited | 10:11 |
| livingroom | didnt mean to spawn | 10:11 |
| livingroom | *spawm | 10:11 |
| livingroom | *spam | 10:11 |
| livingroom | now you are immortalized. anyway, i get to go to bed now | 10:11 |
| pupnik | üthat was a fast problem resolution livingroom | 10:11 |
| pupnik | good rest | 10:11 |
| livingroom | pupnik: i started at 11:001m this morning | 10:11 |
| pupnik | oh | 10:11 |
| livingroom | bah 11:00am | 10:11 |
| johnx | no worries about the spam, but I don't want to be part of the topic O_o | 10:12 |
| livingroom | AHA! you're immortal now | 10:12 |
| Macer | yawn | 10:12 |
| johnx | ~topic Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt | Q&A and Extras-testing discussion - November 10, 14:30 UTC @ #maemo-meeting - http://tinyurl.com/yfjglvd | 10:12 |
| livingroom | i was only trying to add something where you could go ~johnx and the bot would be like "he's awesome" | 10:12 |
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| livingroom | did you see the pic? let me post it again http://img441.imageshack.us/i/picture0007o.jpg/ | 10:13 |
| livingroom | can we put that pic in the topic? it's relevant. | 10:13 |
| livingroom | relevant TO AWESOME. | 10:13 |
| livingroom | anyway, night | 10:13 |
| johnx | 'night livingroom | 10:13 |
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| * RST38h is not sure what that picture is relevant to | 10:17 | |
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| Macer | well | 10:19 |
| Macer | doesn't look like my phone can load this damn ajax interface | 10:19 |
| johnx | ~topic is Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt | Q&A and Extras-testing discussion - November 10, 14:30 UTC @ #maemo-meeting - http://tinyurl.com/yfjglvd | 10:20 |
| Macer | er | 10:21 |
| johnx | a little help here O_o; | 10:21 |
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| johnx | ~topic restore 3 | 10:26 |
| *** infobot changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt" | 10:26 | |
| johnx | ya | 10:26 |
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| hrw | morning | 10:28 |
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| pupnik | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390 Microsoft patents 'sudo' | 10:30 |
| RST38h | oh well | 10:36 |
| RST38h | morning hrw | 10:36 |
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| edgar21 | trying to setup IRC on the N900, but the account-plugin-idle 0.2 doesn't seem to allow me to join any chats. | 11:27 |
| edgar21 | what's the status of IRC on the N900? | 11:27 |
| johnx | I think most people use xchat or something in a console | 11:27 |
| mgedmin | account-plugin-idle is a silly thing with no user interface | 11:27 |
| mgedmin | most people use xchat or irssi in a console | 11:27 |
| zaheerm | there is no multi-user-chat ui on n900 | 11:28 |
| zaheerm | so use xchat :) | 11:28 |
| edgar21 | where would i get it? i couldn't find it in app manager | 11:28 |
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| zaheerm | it probably is still in extras-devel | 11:29 |
| zaheerm | which you should probably not enable unless you are willing to cause your phone issues :) | 11:29 |
| adeus | xchat in a console? | 11:30 |
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| edgar21 | hm. no xchat in extras-devel | 11:31 |
| cosmo | i have extras-devel installed and no problems | 11:32 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 11:32 | |
| cosmo | (and xchat installed) | 11:32 |
| johnx | enabling extras-testing or extras-devel to get xchat then disabling it later should be no problem | 11:32 |
| timeless_mbp | someone asked me to do something incredibly wrong | 11:32 |
| johnx | installing random things from extras-devel without understanding the risks is asking for trouble | 11:32 |
| zaheerm | yah if you want to do extras-devel do what johnx suggests | 11:33 |
| pupnik | one should be prepared to file bug reports | 11:33 |
| edgar21 | that's a given | 11:33 |
| edgar21 | however, is it safe to assume, that if extras-devel is only temporarily enabled to install specific packages, one can undo any potential harm by uninstalling that particular package afterwards? | 11:34 |
| andre__ | edgar21, xchat is only in *Diablo* (Maemo4) Extras-devel. It basically works. Basically. | 11:34 |
| andre__ | though I often get reconnects. | 11:34 |
| andre__ | account-plugin-idle from Fremantle Extras-Testing works too but is simply missing a UI. I can log onto a server, but not join a channel :-P | 11:34 |
| edgar21 | exactly, that's what i've experienced as well | 11:35 |
| pupnik | people can pm you | 11:35 |
| pupnik | it is a private messaging client | 11:35 |
| pupnik | not an irc client | 11:35 |
| johnx | andre__, hmm? are you saying it's not available at all for fremantle? | 11:35 |
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| pupnik | i could swear i installed xchat at summit | 11:36 |
| andre__ | johnx, xchat? haven't seen it so far | 11:36 |
| andre__ | but haven't checked either for the last weeks | 11:36 |
| johnx | I have it running | 11:36 |
| zaheerm | i have xchat installed | 11:36 |
| johnx | there are a couple different versions for fremantle | 11:36 |
| andre__ | oh? | 11:36 |
| andre__ | didn't know that | 11:36 |
| zaheerm | and i have no diablo repos | 11:36 |
| andre__ | cool. | 11:36 |
| zaheerm | it has a few quirks :) | 11:36 |
| johnx | some base one and a qwerty12 enhanced version that was a little crashy last time I played with it :) | 11:37 |
| Macer | did eureka get cancelled or something? | 11:37 |
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| RST38h | andre: Can you contact someone who has management rights to maemo.org infrastructure? | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | > Despite Nokia's control over Maemo, more developers are contributing open source code to the community than for either Android or Maemo, writes Willis. | 11:48 |
| RST38h | Willis has got some problems with his English. | 11:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I preferred it when he just did Die Hard [n] | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | > It was announced on July 24, 2009 that the show [Eureka] had been picked up for a 22 episode fourth season,[1] set to air in mid-2010.[2] | 11:49 |
| andre__ | RST38h, like? | 11:49 |
| RST38h | andre: Like, since Nov 10 I am getting a flood of "Your product has been commented by anonymous" for a bunch of my Maemo5 product pages | 11:50 |
| RST38h | andre: Same reported by wazd and VDVsx | 11:50 |
| RST38h | andre: Looks like someone is running a bot that systematically goes over Maemo5 products and votes them down or something | 11:50 |
| andre__ | uhm | 11:50 |
| andre__ | Apple! Iphone! :-P | 11:50 |
| lbt_ | nah... too dim | 11:51 |
| andre__ | hmm, so a look at the logs might be helpful | 11:51 |
| lbt_ | and it would include an ad | 11:51 |
| RST38h | andre: Rather 5cc of Aminazin... | 11:51 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, andre__ ,also some people complained about it at -devel | 11:51 |
| RST38h | andre: But it may, after all, be a bug in Midgard or something | 11:51 |
| andre__ | that's probably X-Fade's area who's on holidays. I wonder if Jeremiah or Ferenc could take a look | 11:51 |
| RST38h | andre: Could you please locate them and ask? | 11:51 |
| andre__ | because I don't have access to such stuff (or maybe I have but I'm too stupid) | 11:51 |
| andre__ | okay, let me try | 11:51 |
| johnx | heh. the sure way to tell if a launch is happening is to figure out what percentage of the nokia people handling crucial infrastructure are on vacation :D | 11:52 |
| RST38h | andre: With approximate plan of looking at the lock, probably nullifying all votes since Nov 10, and maybe closing the anonymous voting loophole | 11:52 |
| andre__ | johnx, it's not "nokia people". | 11:52 |
| RST38h | andre: It has been a loophole for ages, but since nobody exploited it so far, it was ok | 11:52 |
| johnx | s/nokia// | 11:52 |
| infobot | johnx meant: heh. the sure way to tell if a launch is happening is to figure out what percentage of the people handling crucial infrastructure are on vacation :D | 11:52 |
| RST38h | s/lock/log | 11:52 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: Define "flood". I've had a few (say a dozen or so), but that could just be the rush of new users | 12:01 |
| kynky | how does maemo differ to limo ? maemo a better linux experience ? | 12:02 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: I am getting one every 30-60 minutes | 12:03 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: ON the same 2-3 projects, for 3 days in a row | 12:03 |
| johnx | kynky, maemo is on shipping devices, with tons of available apps, gives you an environment similar to debian/ubuntu in many important ways, and gives you root access (if you want it) straight out of the box | 12:03 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: And I am not sure what rush of new N900 users could have happened on Nov 10 | 12:03 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Look more like a Midgard problem *or* someone going nuts from a dynamic IP | 12:04 |
| kynky | johnx i take it that means limo doesnt :) | 12:04 |
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| johnx | kynky, is limo on shipping devices? | 12:04 |
| johnx | well, I guess the older versions are, but there's scant little info or development around them it seems | 12:05 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Well, devices are shipping and Maemo Select is very visible. | 12:05 |
| kynky | johnx saw this, Vodafone to announce two LiMo (Linux Mobile) smartphones in the 360 H1 and 360 M1 phones. | 12:05 |
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| johnx | ah, the H1 | 12:05 |
| kynky | from http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Nokia-N900-ships/http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Nokia-N900-ships/ | 12:06 |
| johnx | I think that's a new generation of limo stuff | 12:06 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Not shipping instantly though, are they? =) | 12:06 |
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| johnx | kynky, from the limofoundation site it looks like the current limo phones are locked down for the most part | 12:08 |
| johnx | unless I'm missing something big | 12:08 |
| kynky | johnx, not very forthcoming i thought | 12:09 |
| kynky | as in them, not you :) | 12:09 |
| zaheerm | the H1 has been heavily advertised on TV here | 12:09 |
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| johnx | once I see root on one of them, I'll totally change my tune | 12:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | andre__: hey | 12:11 |
| zaheerm | johnx, if ever you will see root | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | don't template me | 12:11 |
| johnx | zaheerm, that's my point | 12:12 |
| johnx | I said the same thing to myself ~3 years ago when they announced the motorokr e8 | 12:12 |
| zaheerm | vodafone won't dish it out to you :) | 12:12 |
| zaheerm | like nokia are kinda doing | 12:12 |
| kynky | so n900 still seems best phone to get :) | 12:12 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, but it was so inviting! ;-) | 12:13 |
| johnx | I don't care if vodafone roots it for me, or samsung offers a vanilla firmware, or some hacker gets root and voda/sammy don't try to 'fix' that in the next firmware | 12:13 |
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| andre__ | and it's the same amount of clicks ;-) | 12:13 |
| johnx | kynky, if you want a linux phone, yeah I think the n900 is the best thing going right now | 12:14 |
| kynky | johnx , yeah | 12:15 |
| kynky | just wish the n900 i ordered arrived | 12:15 |
| johnx | give it a bit more time ;) I think it'll be worth the wait | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | to be fair, the other bug was well written/summarized, i should have found it | 12:16 |
| ccooke_ | Morning, all | 12:16 |
| kynky | mornin | 12:16 |
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| Shapeshifter | dumdidum | 12:27 |
| * timeless_mbp looks around | 12:33 | |
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| pupnik | are there any interesting video feeds for "Video Center"? | 12:35 |
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| RST38h | not really | 12:39 |
| RST38h | why? | 12:39 |
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| viq | I found conflicting reports, does N900 have or have not a digital compass ? | 12:41 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 12:43 |
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| johnx | it does not have one | 12:43 |
| SpeedEvil | It does not. | 12:43 |
| SpeedEvil | At least normally. | 12:43 |
| johnx | if you take a digital compass and tape it to the back of your n900, then it will have one | 12:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | johnx: You're not thinking. | 12:43 |
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| johnx | beat you to it :) | 12:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | johnx: A little compass, with a luminous needle, and a lens in the bottom, that you glue onto the front camera | 12:43 |
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| mgedmin | oooh | 12:44 |
| johnx | sooo, by digital compass, you mean one that's entirely made of fingers, right? | 12:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | I wish accelerometers were about 3 orders of magnitude better | 12:45 |
| wazd | Reheya all. | 12:45 |
| SpeedEvil | 4 would be nice. | 12:45 |
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| * johnx sleeps | 12:46 | |
| pupnik | btw, i got the accupower panther 6 charging the n900 bl-5j battery | 12:46 |
| pupnik | cheers johnx | 12:46 |
| wazd | Cya johnx | 12:47 |
| johnx | 'night wazd, pupnik :) | 12:47 |
| RST38h | g'night johnx | 12:47 |
| johnx | ...and RST38h | 12:47 |
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| pupnik | still 0% | 12:49 |
| pupnik | 6% | 12:51 |
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| mgedmin | pupnik, where do you get the numbers? | 12:51 |
| pupnik | display readout | 12:52 |
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| waz1 | RST38h: have you received anything from forum.nokia yet? | 12:52 |
| waz1 | RST38h: and moo btw) | 12:52 |
| pupnik | 10% | 12:52 |
| RST38h | wazd: Well, I ordered the device, they charged my credit card | 12:54 |
| RST38h | wazd: Aside from that, nothing at all | 12:54 |
| waz1 | RST38h: ah, cool) | 12:54 |
| waz1 | RST38h: still no e-mail for me) | 12:55 |
| RST38h | wazd: why do you need an email? you have registered at forum nokia pro already, right? | 12:55 |
| waz1 | RST38h: yep | 12:55 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Log in there and go to eStore | 12:55 |
| waz1 | RST38h: nothing there | 12:55 |
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| RST38h | You should see the device there | 12:55 |
| waz1 | RST38h: nop | 12:56 |
| RST38h | hmmmm | 12:56 |
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| waz1 | RST38h: I already considered this) | 12:56 |
| mgedmin | hm, I ordered the DDP device, but didn't get an SMS notifying that my card was charged | 12:56 |
| RST38h | Weird...Well, it did appear for me after a day or so | 12:56 |
| mgedmin | either the SMS got astray, or they didn't charge | 12:56 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: my bank account clearly shows two transactions from Nokia London | 12:57 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: One for $1, probably a test, another for $369 | 12:57 |
| mgedmin | BTW the DDP email I got a few weeks ago said they would email me when the device becomes available | 12:57 |
| mgedmin | they never did | 12:57 |
| RST38h | same here | 12:57 |
| * mgedmin too lazy to check bank statements online right now | 12:57 | |
| RST38h | And it looks like you can order MULTIPLE discounted N900s from DDP :) | 12:57 |
| mgedmin | with credit cards they usually reserve a certain amount, and then charge it later | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | I suspect I'm getting SMS notifications only on the actual charge bit | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | I suspect if I checked I'd see the amount being reserved | 12:58 |
| kynky | http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/12/viewsonic-vpc08-keeps-windows-xp-clamshell-style-alive/ lol | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | multiple? gaaaah! | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | I ordered mine and it disappeared from the list | 12:58 |
| RST38h | Lemme check | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | I didn't think to try setting quantity to 2 | 12:59 |
| mgedmin | not that I would've | 12:59 |
| pupnik | RST38h: i coulÃd have ordered n 810s at 0 euro | 12:59 |
| kynky | wish i had ordered more than 1 | 12:59 |
| waz1 | Latest south park episode clearly reflects my thoughts bout nokia, discounts, loaned devices and me | 12:59 |
| kynky | but 1 is enough | 12:59 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Why haven'tyou? :) | 12:59 |
| pupnik | do not exploit a good will gesture | 12:59 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: It still offers me more n(00s :) | 13:00 |
| RST38h | n900s I mean | 13:00 |
| pupnik | i dont hack and trash systems | 13:00 |
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| RST38h | eh | 13:00 |
| RST38h | they would probably find out when shipping anyway | 13:00 |
| pupnik | you tell the planet about the bug, but not the store? | 13:00 |
| pupnik | yea | 13:00 |
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| mgedmin | hm | 13:00 |
| * SpeedEvil checks order status again. | 13:01 | |
| SpeedEvil | nope | 13:01 |
| SpeedEvil | (nokia.co.uk, on the 20th) | 13:01 |
| RST38h | Weird | 13:02 |
| RST38h | Well, I had FN account for years, but not the Pro one. Does it make a difference? | 13:03 |
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| * Jaffa 's hasn't shown up in his list yet | 13:09 | |
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| mgedmin | 250.00 EUR NOKIA ITALIA | 13:13 |
| lbt_ | Jaffa: apparently they don't come in pink | 13:14 |
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| waz2 | bbl | 13:14 |
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| Jaffa | lbt_: tart | 13:15 |
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| pupnik | 30% | 13:18 |
| viq | SpeedEvil, johnx - thank you. It's a bit of a shame it does not have compass, it is useful for the Augmented Reality apps that I would like to have a look at... | 13:21 |
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| pupnik | yes, extrrnal magnets and gyros for you | 13:23 |
| mgedmin | a compass would be fun | 13:25 |
| pupnik | yeah the a.r. apps are going to have a lot of bling for kids i think | 13:27 |
| pupnik | maybe a new generation of computer games | 13:27 |
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| woglinde | jo pupnik btw. | 13:30 |
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| viq | I just like the idea of them, without any practical usage yet. Though I guess say geocaching could get a new level of fun, for example. | 13:32 |
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| zaheerm | a compass would be useful just so I could check here qibla is wherever i am in the world | 13:35 |
| zaheerm | s/here/where/ | 13:35 |
| infobot | zaheerm meant: a compass would be useful just so I could check where qibla is wherever i am in the world | 13:35 |
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| kirma | yet to receive device service schematics, but I'd say it's far from impossible that there would be place on the circuit board for a 3D compass chip | 13:39 |
| kirma | there's a vacant spot on at least some eseries nokia phones | 13:39 |
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| kirma | doesn't exactly mean it's typical user-implementable extra feature, but still... | 13:40 |
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| kirma | I doubt that especially the metallic backplate of the slide mechanism would be... ehm, should I say a "challenge" for compass precision. | 13:42 |
| kirma | and there are couple magnetic locking mechanisms on the device, too. | 13:43 |
| kirma | if it were a single-block device with no moving parts except the keys it'd be much easier. | 13:43 |
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| viq | aren't there metallic andoid phones with compass? Or the iThing? | 13:45 |
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| kirma | I wonder if those devices actually perform sneaky auto-calibration on basis of GPS while on the move | 13:46 |
| Mek | won't any phone with multiple radios have all kinds of metallic shielding... | 13:46 |
| kirma | well, I believe there are parts with differing amounts of effect to the surrounding magnetic field | 13:47 |
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| kirma | still, one can't really assume that measurement of earth's magnetic field would be a triviality when the sensor is inside a device that has magnetically active materials... | 13:52 |
| * viq nods | 13:53 | |
| viq | Though the AR apps have such drool-worthy possibilities, that I keep wishing ;) | 13:53 |
| kirma | I keep wondering about GPS-assisted autocalibration, anyway | 13:54 |
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| kirma | actually gps+accelerometer | 13:55 |
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| viq | Yeah, though not quite useful for "I stand right here and would like to know where I am and which way am I looking" | 13:57 |
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| alterego | 500 GBP | 14:02 |
| alterego | I can't believe I spent all that on a phone. | 14:02 |
| lardman | better than on a pair of tyres | 14:02 |
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| kynky | the £250 deal was sweet though for n900 | 14:03 |
| lardman | kynky: is that in the UK? | 14:03 |
| kynky | yep | 14:03 |
| alterego | Sweet for those who got it. | 14:03 |
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| alterego | Crappy karma | 14:03 |
| alterego | I guess I have been pretty quiet though | 14:03 |
| alterego | I didn't even know the device programme had taken place until yesterday. | 14:04 |
| alterego | I was well annoyed. | 14:04 |
| alterego | But then I thought, meh, I want it. | 14:04 |
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| alterego | I can make 100 by selling my N95 8G ^.^ | 14:06 |
| alterego | I might sell my N96 too .. | 14:06 |
| alterego | Yeah, if I sell both of those through fonebank, I get 250 quid, | 14:06 |
| kirma | viq: what I meant is that it'd calibrate the compass value correction matrix (or whatever) by figuring out where north should be according to gps+accelerometer over time, and from these multiple samples make the correction data | 14:07 |
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| lbt_ | I've seen some UK deals @ free + 18month £30 contract | 14:07 |
| kirma | alterego: credit card has been actually charged or why such an outburst now? ;) | 14:08 |
| viq | oh. but you still would need some compass to be present | 14:08 |
| lardman | lbt_: yeah | 14:08 |
| kirma | viq: of course. | 14:09 |
| alterego | I habe a contract already | 14:09 |
| alterego | 18 month, expires dec next year | 14:09 |
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| alterego | Besides, getting a contract, hyou end up paying full price regardless. | 14:11 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: you essentially can't do that | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: the accellerometer provides no heading information unless you have it clamped into a car | 14:12 |
| lardman | well if you need a £20 data contract, paying an extra £10/month for 18 months makes it reasonably cheap | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: And that is because there is a specific relation there between lateral accelleration, and turning | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: have the device on a table. Now, spin it about its axis. | 14:13 |
| alterego | Yeah, I like my contract | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: 'down' always points the same way. The accellerometers have a constant output. | 14:13 |
| alterego | Heh | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | viq: yeah | 14:13 |
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| kirma | speedevil: I know that part. but you can measure direction of constant movement from GPS, and under good conditions, you can assume that in this situation, acceleration on device generally points the way of gravity... and you can try to guess on which situations the device is actually pointing towards the direction of movement | 14:21 |
| kirma | reading of magnetometer should be even on the worst conditions somewhat trustable | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: The accellerometers are really quite bad though. | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: anything that relies on several integrations is basically going to completely fail. | 14:22 |
| kirma | it's really a control system with three instruments with weaknesses and strengths for each of them (weakness of magnetometer is that they don't tend to have good calibration in such an environment) | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Three instruments? | 14:24 |
| RST38h | Ah, the iPhone developers thread is back! | 14:24 |
| kirma | gps receiver, accelerometer and magnetometer (each supplying multiple independent readings of course) | 14:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | There is no magnetometer. | 14:25 |
| kirma | well. I meant that *if* there were a magnetometer, its autocalibration would be interesting... | 14:25 |
| RST38h | With a helpful comment from some expert that porting QT to iPhones will encourage cross-platform development between iPhone and Maemo! | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, you can use the accellerometer to guess - but this is no better than assuming the device is horizontal when the user is interacting with it. | 14:25 |
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| kirma | supplanting it with gps+accelerometer alone is certainly going to fail. | 14:25 |
| javispedro | RST38h: fun times ahead! | 14:26 |
| RST38h | As Slashdot calls it "insightful" (sic) | 14:26 |
| kirma | scenery recognition is closest thing to what could replace it | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | The accellerometers add almost nothing to the magnetometer - other than simply supplying a 'down' reference - which is vital | 14:26 |
| kirma | performing hough transforms and magic hashes and stuff on the surroundings on camera... | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | The amount of data you can extract about the heading from them is almost zero regretfully. | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | The camera is probably indeed a better source. | 14:26 |
| kirma | yeah, actually camera may be pretty interesting source of information for relation of direction of movement and direction of camera | 14:27 |
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| kirma | difference between those, I mean | 14:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | Needs a lot of CPU and power though. | 14:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is annoying. | 14:28 |
| kirma | and with more interesting world-description, recognising objects on the view for getting the idea where it's pointing | 14:28 |
| kirma | there's no point for running augmented reality when user is not looking at the display, though. | 14:29 |
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| kirma | the hough transform etc kind of trickery might be interesting to tinker though. | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: Sure there is. Audio, vibration cues | 14:29 |
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| kirma | or feature tracking while pointing a phone in a car to non-driving direction | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | todo: buy gifts for xxx. | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Lookup demographic of xxx from contact details, find likely vendors for gifts, vibrate as you go past | 14:30 |
| kirma | speedevil: well, you have to have something to see for the device... which means it's probably going to be on users' hand or view, anyway. | 14:31 |
| viq | SpeedEvil: though for that part you don't need direction (compass) | 14:32 |
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| * javispedro understood "OpenSUSE Build Service" as "Open source your butt service" | 14:32 | |
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| Stskeeps | ow | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:34 |
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| Doni^ | hello people | 14:35 |
| viq | javispedro: there's a saying, "the hungry think of the bread" ;) | 14:35 |
| javispedro | heh | 14:35 |
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| javispedro | oh hi Sts | 14:38 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: btw, wouldn't you know where all those changes to the Maemo clutter-0.8 src come from? | 14:38 |
| javispedro | some of them are in quilt form but the rest .... | 14:38 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: checkout the gitorious repo? | 14:38 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: ta! so they all come from Nokia itself. | 14:41 |
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| woglinde | re | 14:41 |
| javispedro | in some aspects the patches do help | 14:42 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: and I found the blue colors bug doesn't come from Nokia, but from upstream clutter itself -- the workaround I uploaded to bmo patches around "another" Nokia bug that causes the faulty clutter code to be used when it shouldn't | 14:43 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 14:43 |
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| kynky | why does nearly every review on the n900 have to say this is no iphone killer, saying every thing the n900 can do that the iphone doesnt, isnt important or useful | 14:46 |
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| * Stskeeps just plain loves his n900. | 14:46 | |
| hrw | kynky: if I will write n900 review then I will not mention iphone even | 14:46 |
| kynky | hrw, :) | 14:47 |
| zash | why does *every* phone review compare everything to the f'in iphone | 14:47 |
| woglinde | hi hrw | 14:48 |
| hrw | zash: maybe they think that readers use iphones | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | n900 has 'no' apps. | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | ATM | 14:48 |
| zash | lots of reviews i've read latley mention the word "iphone" more often than the thing they review | 14:48 |
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| hrw | my total use of iphone since it was released is still less then 30 minutes | 14:48 |
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| zash | and what's with the OMG, APPS!!! GOTTA CATCH EM' ALL! | 14:48 |
| zash | s/CATCH/BUY/ | 14:49 |
| infobot | zash meant: and what's with the OMG, APPS!!! GOTTA BUY EM' ALL! | 14:49 |
| zash | infobot: AWESOME! | 14:49 |
| infobot | rumour has it, awesome is a synonym of cheese. | 14:49 |
| zash | hahahah | 14:49 |
| kynky | hrw , thats more than me | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | A lot of apps is a plus for a platform. | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Look at the original palm. | 14:49 |
| kynky | with a decent browser, you can use plenty of webapps | 14:50 |
| zash | with a decent x-terminal and ssh, you can reboot your webserver! | 14:50 |
| kynky | zash, ++ | 14:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | The one problem I have with the n900 is that the keyboard is going to make nethack tough. | 14:51 |
| zash | and who cares if n900 won't kill the iphone, it's like "will linux kill windows" | 14:51 |
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| muep_ | it's generally better if competing products don't kill each other, or just one of them | 14:52 |
| mgedmin | will toyota kill general motors? | 14:52 |
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| VDVsx | andre__, Is there a way to Cc a bug without making 'noise' ? | 14:53 |
| andre__ | nope :) | 14:53 |
| andre__ | that's up to the settings of each person him/herself | 14:53 |
| VDVsx | agrrr | 14:53 |
| zash | mgedmin: will Volvo kill Ford? | 14:53 |
| kynky | iphone never intrested me, so was never an option | 14:53 |
| aquatix | better compare the n900 with the motorola droid or something | 14:54 |
| mgedmin | iphone legitimized the large touchscreen concept in a phone, which is good | 14:54 |
| mgedmin | sort of like java legitimized garbage collection and virtual machines in a mainstream language | 14:54 |
| tKMFDM | iphone not only didn't interest me. all apple products are on a 'never going to buy' list because of vendor lock-in | 14:54 |
| hrw | kynky: webapps == costs for data transfer | 14:55 |
| tKMFDM | n900 is a tablet. if you don't have an unlimited or as good as unlimited dataplan it probably isn't the phone/mid for you | 14:55 |
| hrw | tKMFDM: it depends on use | 14:56 |
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| hrw | tKMFDM: with my current phone (where I do mail, rare web, nearly no im) I use less then 20MB/month | 14:57 |
| tKMFDM | exactly my point. if that is the primary way you use your phone I question whether you are going to get 430 euros worth of value out of an n900 | 14:57 |
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| hrw | tKMFDM: 430? I paid 250€ | 14:58 |
| woglinde | re speedevil | 14:58 |
| tKMFDM | I assume you bought it with a contract | 14:58 |
| hrw | tKMFDM: n900? no, with discount | 14:58 |
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| tKMFDM | what discount? | 14:58 |
| woglinde | high karma | 14:59 |
| kynky | 3 x 15% + £50 cashback | 14:59 |
| woglinde | hrw how many apps you uploaded to maemo? | 14:59 |
| hrw | woglinde: none | 14:59 |
| woglinde | baha | 14:59 |
| woglinde | system suckz | 14:59 |
| woglinde | *g* | 14:59 |
| hrw | woglinde: its by my blog posts and bugs posted | 14:59 |
| hrw | tKMFDM: >200 karma one | 15:00 |
| woglinde | hrw I uploaded 3 apps and have karma 13 because of some mails | 15:00 |
| woglinde | so the system suckz | 15:00 |
| hrw | woglinde: many complain | 15:00 |
| woglinde | jupp | 15:00 |
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| lopz | hi :) | 15:10 |
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| Stskeeps | morning qwerty12 | 15:10 |
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| vesa | location fix member 'time' is not a unix timestamp? | 15:10 |
| qwerty12 | Hiya, Stskeeps | 15:10 |
| woglinde | hi qwerty | 15:11 |
| qwerty12 | Hullo, woglinde | 15:11 |
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| javispedro | VDVsx: there's a way to add oneself to a bug's CC list without much noise: vote for it and configure bugzilla to cc you of bugs you've voted on | 15:13 |
| RST38h | Bada developer blog site has an icon with two nooses. | 15:14 |
| RST38h | What would that mean? | 15:14 |
| Stskeeps | you'll want to hang yourself after using their SDK | 15:14 |
| Stskeeps | at least they're honest about it. | 15:14 |
| * mgedmin kinda wishes Bada was hosted under the .ss domain | 15:15 | |
| javispedro | you'll want to hang yourself and someone else | 15:16 |
| RST38h | "Bring a friend"? | 15:17 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Samsung has got its own domain now? | 15:17 |
| qwerty12 | You'll want to hang the Scratchbox developers and the Bada developers, at the same time | 15:17 |
| b-man17 | lol | 15:18 |
| * RST38h won't comment on the imagery at the Symbian site | 15:18 | |
| Stskeeps | yeah, that one looks like a mental asylum | 15:18 |
| RST38h | Mental asylum after a mushroom hunting trip... | 15:19 |
| javispedro | you mean "this" http://www.symbian.org/ imagery? | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | mm mushrooms | 15:21 |
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| javispedro | is that a banana? | 15:21 |
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| qwerty12 | That logo on the "Coolest Apps" section is almost reminiscent of the Microsoft Office 2000 logo | 15:23 |
| ccooke_ | javispedro: ... that is ... wow. What the hell were they smoking? | 15:24 |
| javispedro | bananas, mushrooms, or office logos. decide by yourself :) | 15:24 |
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| LeoD | haha that's awesome | 15:24 |
| qwerty12 | Maybe those pencils symbolise what you will be wanting to sodomise yourself with after viewing the site... | 15:25 |
| woglinde | hm anyone knows if autobuilders are x86 machine? | 15:26 |
| Corsac | there are raids of n900 chained, building all day long | 15:26 |
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| Corsac | and near the end of the hall there are still some n770, trying to keep up | 15:26 |
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| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, Jaffa, around? | 15:28 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie_: yup | 15:31 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie_: In the shitty business class lounge at Stockholm Arlanda | 15:31 |
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| Khertan | Hi ! | 15:32 |
| woglinde | hi khertan | 15:32 |
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| zaheerm | Jaffa, at least you got in a lounge :) | 15:32 |
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| * Khertan is loosing his time recreating a hildon.FileChooserDialog showing file extension ... | 15:38 | |
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| GAN900 | crashanddie_, ? | 15:39 |
| pupnik | any hope to get that upstreamed Khertan ? | 15:39 |
| pupnik | ah no, nevermind | 15:39 |
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| Khertan | pupnik: ? what the FileChooserDialog ? | 15:40 |
| pupnik | yeah | 15:40 |
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| amit_usual | is there a way to test accelerometer on maemo sdk | 15:40 |
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| Khertan | i was near to be insult when i ask for showing file extension | 15:40 |
| Khertan | as everyone think that user is dumb and should not see extension | 15:41 |
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| Khertan | pupnik: clearly ... it ll be not upstreamed | 15:41 |
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| pupnik | pupstream it pls :) | 15:46 |
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| hrw | woglinde: add 'uname -a' to build output, send package for build and then check logs? | 15:52 |
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| gour | hi, i'm looking for some linux-based smart-phone...openmoko and freerunner does not look as having stable solution (aka: software & hardware). i read some reviews about android platform as well as webos used in palm's pre...however, i have impression that maemo platform (and something like new nokia n900) seems as the most open and stable platform. am i right? | 16:06 |
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| Corsac | except n900 isn't yet available, yes, you're right | 16:07 |
| woglinde | hi fiferboy | 16:08 |
| woglinde | Corsac read the annoucment | 16:08 |
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| cehteh | hi gour :) | 16:08 |
| gour | cehteh: ohh, hello | 16:08 |
| gour | cannot escape from cehteh :-) | 16:09 |
| cehteh | you stalking me! | 16:09 |
| Corsac | woglinde: define “the announcement”? :) | 16:09 |
| woglinde | gour 98,9% is free in the n900 | 16:09 |
| woglinde | http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2009/11/houston-we-have-take-off.html | 16:09 |
| woglinde | http://maemo-freak.com/index.php/miscellaneous/1303-nokia-starts-shipping-its-first-linux-based-smartphone-nokia-n900- | 16:09 |
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| Corsac | yes, they are “shipping” | 16:10 |
| gour | woglinde: that's free-enough...i prefer some open-source platform, but i do not have time to hack on openmoko & FR either | 16:10 |
| Corsac | now, they are not yet “available”, like, there's no shop where I can do something else than a pre-order | 16:10 |
| Corsac | which is “available in few days” | 16:10 |
| woglinde | corsac bah | 16:11 |
| fiferboy | hi woglinde | 16:11 |
| cehteh | maemo is prolly the most open platform which is currently used .. counting openmoko as dead :( | 16:11 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not dead! | 16:11 |
| SpeedEvil | It's pining for the fjoords! | 16:12 |
| Corsac | woglinde: well, for me it /does/ make a diffrence, like, having the device in my hand or not | 16:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | gour, N900 is exactly what you're looking for. | 16:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, even if you had a tracking number it still wouldn't be in your hand. | 16:12 |
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| Corsac | GeneralAntilles: if it was available, I could go to a shop a buy it directly :) | 16:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, whatever, dude, a few days aren't going to kill you. | 16:13 |
| Corsac | GeneralAntilles: sure not | 16:13 |
| cehteh | well in a few days to weeks, that will be the case | 16:14 |
| Corsac | GeneralAntilles: and tbh I'm not even sure I'll jump on the first (real) offers | 16:14 |
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| Corsac | GeneralAntilles: I just wanted to precise that he couldn't go *now* and buy one | 16:14 |
| cehteh | its shipping already, so first all preordered devices i guess | 16:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | Corsac: Sure he can. | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Corsac: I bet that a large fraction of devs would part with their n900 for $10000 | 16:15 |
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| Corsac | SpeedEvil: good point :) | 16:15 |
| cehteh | since shipping was delayed by software and not hardware issues, i guess the have a quite big stock to roll out, but well i dont know | 16:15 |
| cehteh | cu | 16:16 |
| gour | GeneralAntilles: i've to check what it brings in comparison with e.g. n800 | 16:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | gour, infinitely better hardware | 16:16 |
| derf | Where infinity is roughly 2. | 16:17 |
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| pupnik | bl-5j charge 0 to 90% in 3 and a half hours - normal? | 16:17 |
| pupnik | on this accupower station | 16:18 |
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| gour | anyone using claws mailer on maemo? | 16:20 |
| * Stskeeps does on his n810 | 16:21 | |
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| gour | how it works? | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | good | 16:22 |
| gour | i'm thinking that something like n900, could serve my purpose instead of buying netbook | 16:23 |
| hrw | gour: on n900 it will be different then on n810 | 16:23 |
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| gour | hrw: n810 is more tablet than | 16:24 |
| gour | smart-phone? | 16:24 |
| hrw | gour: and has bigger screen then n900 | 16:24 |
| hrw | and OS not finger optimised | 16:25 |
| gour | hmm, that's good to know | 16:25 |
| gour | hrw: so n810 is closer to netbook device? | 16:26 |
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| Suurorca | when I first saw n810 I was sooo mad it didn't have a phone | 16:26 |
| Suurorca | almost bought one nevertheless | 16:26 |
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| hrw | I first complained a lot and then bought | 16:27 |
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| kynky | mid/netbook/umpc/notebook, diffirentiated by power and size? | 16:27 |
| gour | and what about today? | 16:27 |
| kynky | i guess if n900 is powerful enough, why do you need anything more powerful :) | 16:28 |
| Suurorca | Deciding n900 against a netbook can be really hard. | 16:29 |
| hrw | depends on use I think | 16:29 |
| kynky | screensize vs portability | 16:29 |
| viq | a bit smaller resolution on a lot smaller screen and a much smaller keyboard ;) | 16:29 |
| hrw | there are things which netbook can do and n900 cannot and vice versa | 16:29 |
| Suurorca | If the primary use is 5 hour writing sessions and watching random movies, netbook is a clear winner | 16:29 |
| Suurorca | Say, long commuting trips by train | 16:30 |
| kynky | nokia 3g booklet vs nokia n900 | 16:30 |
| LeoD | can you put a netbook into your pocket? | 16:30 |
| hrw | you can connect netbook to 24" fullHD lcd and use that fullHD resolution. n900 do not give you that | 16:30 |
| viq | LeoD: depends on pockets ;) | 16:30 |
| viq | I've seen people carry netbooks in pockets | 16:30 |
| Suurorca | But if your are away from your laptop/office computer for max 30 mins and just want somethjing to play with in the middle (like me), then n900 is the clear winner | 16:31 |
| hrw | Suurorca: good said | 16:31 |
| kynky | if tv supports playing hd content via usb, you can have media on n900 | 16:31 |
| kynky | mplayer/vlc on n900 is more than enough for me | 16:31 |
| Suurorca | or not. usb host support is kind questionable on n900... | 16:32 |
| Suurorca | kind of* | 16:32 |
| gour | well, i prefer to the most of work on my desktop machine...the portable one would server me for checking/sending mail, light browsing, working with contacts/calendar etc. | 16:32 |
| kynky | n900 can act as a mass storage device | 16:32 |
| gour | no need/time for watching movies, playing music... | 16:32 |
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| gour | of course, n900 would replace phone as well | 16:33 |
| kynky | http://nokiaexperts.com/nokia-n900-tips-bluetooth-keyboard-external-display/ | 16:34 |
| kynky | nokia 3g booklet with bt headset can do that too :) | 16:34 |
| Suurorca | The booklet if way overpriced, imo | 16:35 |
| Khertan | <Suurorca> If the primary use is 5 hour writing sessions and watching random movies, netbook is a clear winner <<< haha | 16:36 |
| Suurorca | Khertan: I never said it was THE best solution ;) | 16:36 |
| Khertan | with a 15kg battery ... | 16:36 |
| kynky | what is the best solution? | 16:36 |
| Khertan | n900 :) | 16:37 |
| kynky | :) | 16:37 |
| Suurorca | . . . quit trolling ;p | 16:37 |
| Khertan | i use it for coding ... watching movie in train | 16:37 |
| Khertan | 2 hours the morning | 16:37 |
| Khertan | and 2 hour the evening | 16:37 |
| * kynky wants to use n900 for coding and watching movies | 16:37 | |
| javispedro | help! my multitasking n900 is not capable of running 6 bloatware-laden flash games at the same time! | 16:37 |
| Suurorca | Actually, for movies use on longer trips I'd still take my bigger laptop. At least all the trains here have powert outlets ;p | 16:37 |
| javispedro | will they fix that in a sw upgrade? | 16:37 |
| Khertan | so 4 hours by day + using arround 2 hours in the rest of the day | 16:38 |
| kynky | Suurorca, wish i had rdered an extra battery | 16:38 |
| kynky | ordered* | 16:38 |
| Khertan | javispedro: are you kidding ? | 16:38 |
| javispedro | Khertan: yes :) | 16:38 |
| fiferboy | I can't update the firmware on my N900 (with NSU) without a SIM!? | 16:38 |
| Khertan | javispedro: because it can :) | 16:38 |
| Suurorca | I used to carry one around with me. Until I once dropped it. | 16:38 |
| Khertan | fiferboy: really ? | 16:39 |
| MGic_ | question about N900 FM transmitter, can you output all sounds through it or is it up to the application to support it or not? | 16:39 |
| Khertan | what is nsu ? | 16:39 |
| kynky | you can only play nokia theme over fm trasmitter | 16:39 |
| * gour thinks about 10" devices when speaking about netbook, not those requiring 15kg batts | 16:39 | |
| Khertan | MGic_: it s output music, film, and ring when receiving call | 16:39 |
| Khertan | MGic_: so i ll say yes | 16:39 |
| Suurorca | Nokia Software Updater (NSU) at the moment requires all phones to have sim in | 16:39 |
| fiferboy | It brings up a "Can't find SIM" screen. Then if I cancel that it still tries to do it, but gives a "Unable to retreive device information" | 16:39 |
| fiferboy | But I don't have a SIM. My N900 is a mobile computer, not a phone :) | 16:40 |
| Khertan | gour: 10" use also 12kg battery not better | 16:40 |
| Suurorca | or at least did 6 months ago, which was when I last tried using it | 16:40 |
| kynky | its a mid | 16:40 |
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| gour | Khertan: :-) | 16:40 |
| Khertan | fiferboy: how are you updating ? | 16:40 |
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| kynky | does maemo flasher require a sim ? | 16:40 |
| Khertan | flasher3.5 ? | 16:40 |
| Suurorca | anyway, just use maemo-flasher | 16:40 |
| fiferboy | Using the Nokia Software Update tool (in windows) | 16:40 |
| Khertan | ah ... | 16:41 |
| fiferboy | Is the image available now? | 16:41 |
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| Khertan | don't know | 16:41 |
| Khertan | but i ve one ... which isn't public yet | 16:41 |
| Khertan | and isn't a final | 16:41 |
| MGic_ | Khertan : ok | 16:41 |
| kynky | im guessing you shouldnt have said that, lol | 16:41 |
| lardman | Khertan: your todo list app is broken! | 16:41 |
| Khertan | lardman: ? | 16:41 |
| Suurorca | By the way, flashing a prototype might brick it. | 16:41 |
| Khertan | lardman: under fremantle ? | 16:41 |
| lardman | python thing, deps missing | 16:42 |
| Khertan | lardman: under fremantle all my app is broken | 16:42 |
| lardman | ah ok | 16:42 |
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| lardman | and who wrote zToDo, that's also broken due to no pysqlite | 16:42 |
| Khertan | lardman: be carreful when installing things from extras-devel | 16:42 |
| lardman | can't you just change the dep? | 16:43 |
| Khertan | my priority right now is to finish rewrite of PyGTKEditor for fremantle | 16:43 |
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| lardman | ok fair enough | 16:43 |
| Khertan | but i m loosing time doing stupid things like rewrite the wheel for a file chooser dialog | 16:44 |
| Khertan | as the fremantle one do not display extension | 16:44 |
| lardman | anyone recommend a todo list which has tiered todos, i.e. things that rely on other things? | 16:44 |
| lardman | Khertan: no worries | 16:44 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:44 |
| Khertan | but ... 2s i ll try if it s just a depandancy pb | 16:44 |
| fiferboy | lardman: How's it going? | 16:45 |
| lardman | fiferboy: busy, you? | 16:45 |
| lardman | decorating house, looking to sell | 16:46 |
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| Khertan | ImportError: No module named glade | 16:46 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Busy. fiferbaby 2.0 was launched yesterday at 5 AM | 16:46 |
| Khertan | ;( | 16:46 |
| lardman | lots do do at work too | 16:46 |
| lardman | fiferboy: congrats! | 16:46 |
| lardman | how's fiferwife? | 16:46 |
| fiferboy | Thanks. fiferwife is good, resting up now in hospital | 16:46 |
| lardman | ah, so you have some fifersleep | 16:47 |
| woglinde | fiferboy grats | 16:47 |
| Stskeeps | fiferboy: congratulations :) | 16:47 |
| fiferboy | woglinde, Stskeeps: Thanks! | 16:47 |
| Stskeeps | fiferboy: boy or girl? | 16:47 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Well, fiferbaby 1.3 isn't really a great sleeper, so I get to deal with that | 16:47 |
| fiferboy | Stskeeps: Second boy. We are a solid majority in the house | 16:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, ah, congrats! | 16:48 |
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| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Thanks! | 16:48 |
| fiferboy | My Maemo contributions might slow down for a bit now... | 16:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol, now Quim wants "http://maemo.org" | 16:53 |
| alterego | What for? | 16:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why don't we just quit the insanity and stick with "Extras" or "http://maemo.org Extras" | 16:53 |
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| alterego | Heh | 16:54 |
| alterego | I prefer "extras" over "Extras" :P | 16:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3307 | 16:54 |
| povbot | Bug 3307: "maemo Extras" in Application manager should be "Extras" | 16:54 |
| alterego | Yeah | 16:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, ping? | 16:54 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, pong | 16:55 |
| alterego | Heh | 16:55 |
| alterego | Shouldn't it me "maEmo.org Extras"? | 16:55 |
| alterego | I think "3rd Party Applications" would be better :P | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ugh | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | That string already appears way too much. | 16:56 |
| Suurorca | "myEmo" :) | 16:56 |
| lardman | Anyone got any ideas re ToDo lists? | 16:57 |
| Suurorca | Maybe "Communoty Applications" - if it has to be changed that is | 16:58 |
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| kalikianatoli | Let's go for org.maemo.extras to comply with dbus specs | 16:58 |
| kalikianatoli | :P | 16:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | I say we call it, "Shit that'll break your shit" | 16:59 |
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| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Too much shit | 16:59 |
| mikkov__ | Quim wants "maemo.org" | 17:00 |
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| zaheerm | maemo.org Extras ? | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: ping | 17:00 |
| myself123 | hi guys, i see that nokia has released the n900.. is there anyone who has it ? | 17:00 |
| SpeedEvil | myself123: for low values of released. | 17:01 |
| mikkov__ | is the name change about localization of "Extras" being too hard or what? | 17:01 |
| SpeedEvil | myself123: they may be shipping to distributors - not to users | 17:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | zaheerm, no, just "http://maemo.org" | 17:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov__, I've seen no justification as of yet. | 17:01 |
| SpeedEvil | myself123: 0 people have sayd they have had a shipping notification AIUI. And some in here have prerrelease hardware | 17:01 |
| mikkov__ | GeneralAnttilles: he is suggesting about localization work | 17:02 |
| mikkov__ | but not directly saying any reason | 17:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov__, initially there was no justification offered beyond "We've taken a public issue and had a closed internal discussion, now we're rendering you our decision." | 17:03 |
| myself123 | SpeedEvil: oh.. :( i don't know if it'll be a nice phone or not :) like if the phone is multitouch, if it's fluid and if it works good with kde (sync and stuff like that)..oh..and also about applications... as a linux system i think i could install everything, but i never had a similar phone.. i'm stick with my old nokia 6680 :) | 17:03 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not multitouch. | 17:03 |
| SpeedEvil | There are currently few applications, but you can run - with some caveats - random X stuff. | 17:03 |
| moo__ | myself123: it does work with KDE, you can run KDE on it ;) | 17:03 |
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| moo__ | (if you are into mashochism....) | 17:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | KDE + multitouch on a 3.5" screen == fail. | 17:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Lack of fluidness has not been a complaint :) | 17:04 |
| mikkov__ | GeneralAnttilles: Quim says "maemo.org" not "http://maemo.org" | 17:04 |
| * Stskeeps notes the weather outside is freaky. got really really dark and now a lot of dark birds flying about. | 17:04 | |
| * SpeedEvil tries to connect to finger://maemo.org and fails | 17:04 | |
| * SpeedEvil is confused. | 17:04 | |
| myself123 | moo__: yeah, i saw that on the kde planet :) but if i'd like to stick with maemo, do you know if it's possible to sync it with kdepim (email, contacts, todo, events, etc)? | 17:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov__, does this come out as a URL? maemo.org | 17:04 |
| SpeedEvil | mikkov_no | 17:05 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: no | 17:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov__, OK, my client's not being too smart for its own good, so what are you responding to? | 17:05 |
| moo__ | myself123: sync over bluetooth and usb using syncml is available | 17:05 |
| moo__ | myself123: standard | 17:05 |
| moo__ | myself123: so "yes" | 17:05 |
| mikkov__ | GeneralAntilles: about Extras repository name | 17:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov__, right, I know he's proposing http://maemo.org, so why are you putting the http:// in front of it for me? | 17:06 |
| myself123 | moo__: mm..ok.. :) | 17:07 |
| mikkov__ | GeneralAntilles: he is proposing just "maemo.org", no http:// anywhere | 17:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | mikkov__, right, I get that, what are you responding to that makes you think that I think there's an http:// on it? :) | 17:08 |
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| * GeneralAntilles is really confused. | 17:08 | |
| frals | [15:53:41] <GeneralAntilles> lol, now Quim wants "http://maemo.org" | 17:08 |
| frals | id guess | 17:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, damnit, my client IS being too goddamn smart for its own good. | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | at least it didn't uppercase maemo.org | 17:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | yeah - many clients will highlight http://foo.org/ but not foo.org or foo.org, foo.org. | 17:09 |
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| wazd | Back | 17:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov__, sorry, this is what I get for using a GUI client. | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | wb wazd :) | 17:10 |
| kynky | lol | 17:10 |
| mikkov__ | GeneralAntilles: was checking the backlog for the third time :) | 17:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Apple is too goddamn smart for their own good. | 17:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Smart links" | 17:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Grr | 17:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: pong | 17:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, turned it off. | 17:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | mikkov__, "maemo.org" should now be "maemo.org" :roll: | 17:15 |
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| mikkov__ | GeneralAntilles: looks good :) | 17:17 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: got a source for where the idea of 80% oss, 20% closed comes from? | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, there's a couple quotes from Quim on Talk and maybe the lists. | 17:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe Bugzilla, too, but I don't have any links handy. | 17:24 |
| andre__ | page 4 of https://maemo.org/static/4/4c0c9590887911dd804ae36efcafed98ed98_how_nokia_approaches_open_source_for_maemo.pdf for example | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | k | 17:25 |
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| javispedro | I guess Sts found out is 5% oss 95% closed or the like and we've all been living a lie ;) | 17:27 |
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| andre__ | harhar | 17:27 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: I had a vision | 17:27 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: now I need 6 hands to draw all this stuff :D | 17:28 |
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| RST38h | javis: I guess Nokia is supposed to send ninjas to him now | 17:28 |
| RST38h | andre: Any word from Ferenc et al on those weird votes? | 17:29 |
| javispedro | no need, just carefully execute order66 hidden deeply within bme code that initiates liion battery self destruct | 17:29 |
| RST38h | javis: This assumes Sts keeps his n900 close to his body | 17:29 |
| andre__ | nope | 17:29 |
| RST38h | javis: I wonder if he still does that, after watching that maemoproject promo though | 17:30 |
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| javispedro | who does? I now personally even keep an eye on my N810, even if N810's can only transform into a half-sized leprechaun instead of insane human. | 17:31 |
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| GiantTalkingCow | That'd be even scarier. | 17:32 |
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| wazd | My n800 can transform in that small bear from episode VI :D | 17:33 |
| wazd | Ewok :D | 17:33 |
| GiantTalkingCow | I still have my n800 (got it as a gift). It's not bad, but I really wish there was something with a better UI for it. The Android port's flopped, however, so... | 17:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Maemo 4 UI was great for its time. | 17:35 |
| wazd | Diablo ui is not that bad | 17:35 |
| GiantTalkingCow | Maybe not, but I'm not a fan of it. | 17:35 |
| feri | RST38h: i will check and reset the votes, but i'm still fixing the registration stuff for the Barcelona gathering | 17:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | GiantTalkingCow, why? | 17:37 |
| javispedro | the diablo ui is great and I would have a hard time debating anyone with that previously common "Maemo usability peaked around 3.0" | 17:37 |
| wazd | Feri: plleeeease! Fix that spam! I surrender! | 17:37 |
| andre__ | oops. feri is around i realize. sorry, just sent you an email too :-/ | 17:38 |
| feri | wazd: fixing the component to send "meaningful" mails (as it was discussed on the list) will take a little longer though. | 17:38 |
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| GiantTalkingCow | GeneralAntilles: A few reasons... one of them is the limited ability to customize the menu and icons (what's shown, what's not), also, the sidebar's a bit big for my taste, the default keyboard layout's a pain (the language toggle key right next to shift has caused all sorts of problems)... | 17:38 |
| wazd | GiantTalkingCow: personal meu | 17:39 |
| GiantTalkingCow | ...the file browser's too limited, the widgets could use better color differentiation... | 17:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | GiantTalkingCow, sound nitpicky. | 17:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | s | 17:40 |
| GiantTalkingCow | wazd: I know, I'm talking about my problems with the default setup, since GeneralAntilles asked. | 17:40 |
| GiantTalkingCow | Well, I happen to think that small touches often add up, and can make or break a UI. It's why I consider Windows to be such a pain to use. | 17:40 |
| javispedro | the sidebar's gone, the virtual stylus keyboard is gone, the file browser's even more limited and the widgets are now all black. | 17:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nothing's "small" about Windows' UI issues. | 17:40 |
| wazd | GiantTalkingCow: no, I don't beleive you, now you die! :D | 17:40 |
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| RST38h | feri: Can I ask for something real simple? | 17:41 |
| feri | RST38h: yes | 17:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | How about something fake simple? | 17:41 |
| GiantTalkingCow | GeneralAntilles: Well, it has major UI problems too, but in addition to that, it has about 100 minor quirks which added up make me want to shoot whoever the head of UI design is over there. | 17:41 |
| RST38h | feri: Could you simply disable anonymous votes, at least for now? This will also prevent people from voting many times | 17:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | GiantTalkingCow, the "major" issues would've been more effective at illustrating your point than the minor ones you listed. ;) | 17:42 |
| RST38h | feri: I.e. only registered maemo.org users would be able to vote for now, at least until the system is made sane and idiot proof | 17:42 |
| wazd | GiantTalkingCow: since when windows is a pain to use? | 17:42 |
| feri | RST38h: yes, I will try. right after the Barcelona thingy.. | 17:42 |
| RST38h | Thanks | 17:42 |
| ShadowJK | Example of awesome features of the diablo UI that some other manufacturers get wrong: whilst typing on the onscreen keyboard you can see the text as it is being typed | 17:42 |
| GiantTalkingCow | Yes, but I don't have major issues with the Diablo UI, only a bunch of minor ones that really start to bug me over time. | 17:42 |
| GiantTalkingCow | wazd: Since I first tried it back in 1990. | 17:43 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: This comes at a cos | 17:43 |
| RST38h | t | 17:43 |
| wazd | GiantTalkingCow: ooooh | 17:43 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, constant resizing of apps or fullscreen keyboard, yeah | 17:43 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Your app window becomes halved, and you have to support one more window layout for that | 17:43 |
| wazd | GiantTalkingCow: now I see :D | 17:43 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: This is easily solvable though | 17:43 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, but you can see what you type in fullscreen too | 17:43 |
| ShadowJK | it's just not in the app, but you can still see it | 17:43 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: The solution will look...mm...bold, so I guess that is why nobody uses it | 17:44 |
| * javispedro patiently watches locals race to get the N900 | 17:44 | |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: Just overlay semitransparent full screen keyboard and be done with it | 17:44 |
| * GeneralAntilles really hates Forum Nokia. | 17:44 | |
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| wazd | GiantTalkingCow: things changed since 1990 | 17:44 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: This way you see what you type, there is no need to resize the window, and you get full sized keyboard | 17:44 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: anything new? | 17:45 |
| ShadowJK | SmartQ original firmware (up to v5?) has opaque onscreen keyboard that doesn't move app window away or resize it, so it ends up covering the app, and you can't see what you're typing ;p | 17:45 |
| RST38h | General: You have been living pretty comfortable life if FN can make you hate it =) | 17:45 |
| javispedro | I am waiting for anyone to get a FN email, but I guess even that is wishful thinking | 17:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | andre__: may i fix bug 6141? | 17:46 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6141 "Maemo Software" should be "Maemo Devices" | 17:46 |
| GiantTalkingCow | wazd: I know. And I've used every version since then (NT and home stuff) at one point or another. It still has a bad UI. | 17:46 |
| ShadowJK | When I discovered forum nokia I thought "awesome, actual information" | 17:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, http://www.andreagrandi.it/2009/11/12/questionsanswers-about-nokia-n900-and-discounted-device-program/ just reading that and becoming irritated. | 17:46 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, oh yeah :) | 17:46 |
| RST38h | General: Never tried to register for classes with UMD Mars system, never ordered an airplane ticket with Aeroflot's Sabre, I guess.... | 17:46 |
| * RST38h laughs maniacally | 17:46 | |
| wazd | GiantTalkingCow: no it's not) | 17:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, nope, Blackboard works pretty well and I don't have issues with US airline ticketing systems. | 17:47 |
| ShadowJK | never tried to buy anything from Nokia online shop... | 17:47 |
| pupnik | Businessweek, Oct. 28: "Nokia N900 Delay Highlights Maemo's Importance" http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/europeinsight/archives/2009/10/nokia_n900_dela.html | 17:47 |
| GiantTalkingCow | wazd: What other OSes have you used over the years? I've used a bunch, and in general, the Windows UI just reeks of people who didn't pay attention while designing it. I'd take the RiscOS UI or the old Amiga UI over it any day. | 17:47 |
| RST38h | US ticketing sometimes gets as bad though, depends on the airline | 17:47 |
| javispedro | No VAT? that's illegal at best. | 17:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, ordered my 5800 from them, it wasn't particularly obnoxious. | 17:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Forum Nokia's process for the DDP has just been a long string of broken things. | 17:48 |
| Khertan | GeneralAntilles: just forgot the waranty question :) | 17:48 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, it's a minefield of javascript that makes firefox spam syntax error in the error log, and it doesn't work at all without the js | 17:48 |
| wazd | GiantTalkingCow: I've used none cause I'm pretty fine with Vista | 17:48 |
| ShadowJK | It took me like an hour before I found a sequence of working buttons on various pages that took me to the goal | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: between different EU countries, two companies, 0% VAT is fine | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | you pay VAT locally | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | reverse charge | 17:49 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: btw, thanks to you for the link and andrea for the blog post | 17:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | First they force you to make up a bunch of fake information because they didn't bother to spend any effort to make the registration system relevant | 17:49 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: "two companies" | 17:49 |
| GiantTalkingCow | wazd: Well then, I think that having used lots of different desktop UIs, I'm more qualified to make a judgement. If you can make the Vista UI work for you, good for you, then. | 17:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Then they wait a long time to notify anybody that anything is working | 17:49 |
| wazd | GiantTalkingCow: it surely has some 'annoyances' but nothing more | 17:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | forcing people to attempt re-sending emails and leaving them wondering what in the world is going on | 17:49 |
| GiantTalkingCow | wazd: To each his own, I suppose. | 17:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then the N900 appears on the eStore without any promised email to announce that | 17:50 |
| wazd | GiantTalkingCow: surely no reason to switch it | 17:50 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: quim's "buy now!" didn't help. | 17:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Going through the ordering process they make you agree to an NDA that has zero relevance to you | 17:50 |
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| wazd | GiantTalkingCow: yeah, that's the point | 17:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Inform you that the devices have no warranty | 17:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | then throw a flag with your credit card company because you're ordering overseas. | 17:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Broken. | 17:51 |
| javispedro | yeah. | 17:51 |
| Khertan | [16:50] <GeneralAntilles> Going through the ordering process they make you agree to an NDA that has zero relevance to you <<< excuse me i m not a expert in english | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | i'm still wondering if stskeeps on FN is mine. | 17:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Interestingly, I've never had any issue ordering from overseas companies with that credit card before. | 17:52 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, you know, people celebrated when nokia bought symbian, because they figured nokia would be able to get the symbian people to progress to something more modern instead of the then used method of processing web forms by having a dedicated computer print them out in room A into a shoebox to be processed in room B, the result stored on a paper and sent/entered into db in room C | 17:52 |
| RST38h | General: I wonder if our devices are actually covered by the warranty though | 17:52 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: I don't even have an option, so shut up and pay :D | 17:52 |
| ShadowJK | or atleast, that's what the evil rumour was | 17:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, who the hell knows? | 17:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it's not like we can get a clear answer about any of this. | 17:52 |
| feri | RST38h: do you have the URL at hand where voting for your app happens? | 17:52 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Well, Nokia succeeded in driving Symbian people to complete insanity. I *suspect* it is a progress | 17:52 |
| RST38h | feri: A moment | 17:53 |
| Flandry | I'm wondering about the accelerometer and its usage as an input device. Is there any way to get normalized/integrated/smoothed input from it without doing frequent polling directly? That seems to be a good way to kill the battery in general usage. | 17:53 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, surely they were lunatics before? | 17:53 |
| RST38h | feri: I have got several such URL, do you need all or just the worst one? | 17:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, we could all be happy with shit if we only want to consider people that have it worse off then us, but then we'd all be living in shit and there'd never be any progress. | 17:53 |
| ShadowJK | Well in the age of DOS and OS/2 they were probably as sane as anyone else... | 17:53 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Not sure | 17:53 |
| feri | RST38h: the worst pls | 17:53 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, put the IMEI into the Nokia Care warranty checking thingy online? | 17:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sorry, Khertan, the stupid NDA that they make you agree to that's targeted companies, not individuals. | 17:54 |
| * ShadowJK vaguely recalls there was one | 17:54 | |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, be nice to know BEFORE I spent the $370. | 17:54 |
| ShadowJK | maybe it's gone now, like the battery authentication form :-( | 17:54 |
| Khertan | GeneralAntilles: yep | 17:54 |
| pupnik | the charger seems to work nicely btw. | 17:55 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: "stskeeps" is not a valid user (in FN "Community") | 17:55 |
| RST38h | feri: For example http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-ddd043b4c72f11de8395493ad81ece3fce3f - at least 29 times since yesterday | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | lovely | 17:55 |
| pupnik | loading camera batt now | 17:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Except for being damn near impossible to plug in in the dark. | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | then -wtf- cant i register.. | 17:55 |
| feri | RST38h: cheers | 17:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, we don't want your kind to have devices. | 17:55 |
| * javispedro notes FN "community" is basically vBulletin + lifetype | 17:55 | |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Oh, there is a web form where you can check for warranty? | 17:55 |
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| RST38h | javis: Correct. And it is filled with poor disoriented developers who can't figure how to do this or that with Symbian | 17:56 |
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| * Khertan is trying to connect to FN for the 10th time | 17:56 | |
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| Khertan | Sorry, the username you gave was not found in our database. Please re-register or try again with another username. | 17:56 |
| Khertan | grrr | 17:57 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Well, I think that until recently Symbian people were just greedy, lazy, and antisocial, building their inifinitely complex APIs in some nordic ivory tower | 17:57 |
| ShadowJK | rsalveti, there was one, at one point, one one of the nokia websites | 17:57 |
| zaheer__ | fn is a lot less friendly to use than maemo.org | 17:57 |
| ShadowJK | rsalveti, sorry, that was to RST38h | 17:57 |
| javispedro | RST38h: when the .txt file with the sdk release notes are more than 3 clicks away from the sdk download page, something is wrong with a site | 17:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm betting there's no way EURO devices are getting repaired in the US. | 17:57 |
| javispedro | extra points if one of the pages you need to hop through is just a ".txt download now" page | 17:57 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 17:57 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: But ever since they went "toward open source", things took decidedly mental twist | 17:57 |
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| javispedro | zaheer__++ | 17:58 |
| RST38h | General: AFAIK, Nokia provides worldwide awarranty, but I may be wrong | 17:58 |
| Khertan | sensitive case login | 17:58 |
| Khertan | lol | 17:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, US devices don't have warranties in the EU and vice versa. | 17:59 |
| RST38h | Hmm... weird | 17:59 |
| Khertan | about fn ... it s funny to see that the n900 appear only after 5 refresh of the page :) | 17:59 |
| RST38h | The N900 they send you IS going to be the same for EU or US though | 18:00 |
| RST38h | Same bands, same keyboard, etc | 18:00 |
| zaheerm | the imei and serial number databases will find you out :) | 18:00 |
| RST38h | No, I mean, there are no technical difficulties in repairing it | 18:00 |
| cehteh | eu has quite different warranty laws than us | 18:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, that doesn't matter. | 18:01 |
| suihkulokki | RST38h: differenty wifi bands | 18:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | The EU people a pay premium for their consumer protection laws. | 18:01 |
| cehteh | and keyboard layouts are different | 18:01 |
| RST38h | suihkulokki: Really? That is changed in these devices? | 18:01 |
| cehteh | yeah | 18:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | The US people don't pay that, so they don't want EU people buying US devices and getting EU service. | 18:01 |
| RST38h | centeh: No, same keyboard layout | 18:01 |
| * javispedro finds n900 disappearead from estore and has heart attack. then notices he cleared his cookies :) | 18:01 | |
| RST38h | javis: The more interesting thing is that you can order more than one :) | 18:02 |
| cehteh | RST38h: for GB maybe .. but german and french might be different | 18:02 |
| cehteh | at least the one i ordered was announced as QWERTZ | 18:02 |
| RST38h | centeh: DDP says they will send Euro1 devices, same US keyboard | 18:02 |
| javispedro | RST38h: also you can buy an overpriced N75 | 18:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, that always cracks me up. | 18:02 |
| RST38h | javis: Well, N900 will also become overpriced in 4-6 months | 18:02 |
| RST38h | javis: So you are basically paying for quicker access | 18:03 |
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| javispedro | http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Creating_Debian_packages_for_Maemo_Qt_applications_and_showing_in_the_application_menu | 18:04 |
| * javispedro sighs | 18:04 | |
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| javispedro | learn how to build debian packages, the binary way! | 18:04 |
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| taril | hi | 18:04 |
| taril | I would like to ask about N900 development | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: oh fuck no | 18:05 |
| * RST38h does not like the default way either | 18:05 | |
| javispedro | (aka [sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] > dpkg-deb -b HelloWorldApplication ) | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: we need to raise this issue | 18:05 |
| taril | is there any hardware specifik sdk for n900 under maemo (sensors, camera, etc) | 18:05 |
| lbt_ | RST38h: I thought about ordering 2... | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: that's just way too embarassing | 18:05 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: too late. it's todays featured article. | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | then to talk.* it is | 18:05 |
| RST38h | lbt: I see no practical use for two, one is enough | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:05 |
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| lbt_ | RST38h: you're not married then? | 18:06 |
| lbt_ | or... | 18:06 |
| lbt_ | cat tracker...? | 18:06 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: seriously, that is just encouraging bad practices | 18:06 |
| RST38h | lbt: My wife has a 5800 | 18:06 |
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| lbt_ | javispedro: good catch.... tell Quim | 18:06 |
| RST38h | lbt: haven't got kids | 18:06 |
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| RST38h | lbt: s/kids/pets , two kids actually :) | 18:06 |
| lbt_ | yeah, I wouldn't trust a kid with one | 18:07 |
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| lbt_ | cat, sure. | 18:07 |
| wazd | Oh. I have an idea for that MaeVoice stuff | 18:07 |
| wazd | Now I'll tell the truth bout nokia and community!) | 18:07 |
| RST38h | THE UGLY TRUTH! | 18:07 |
| javispedro | http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging_a_Qt_application | 18:07 |
| RST38h | The Community is in Nokia's pay! | 18:07 |
| javispedro | so this is what happens when we have BOTH maemo.org and FN | 18:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ehehe | 18:08 |
| * GeneralAntilles wazd Hush. | 18:08 | |
| * RST38h suggests to disregard FN. | 18:08 | |
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| javispedro | wazd: don't listen those guys, they're all in Nokia's payroll, they have free N900s after all. | 18:08 |
| zaheerm | nokia uk flagship store has nokia e72 on sale from tomorrow... | 18:08 |
| lbt_ | Heh | 18:09 |
| lbt_ | Offensive tag NOT added: diablo | 18:09 |
| javispedro | wazd: what's worse is that they even insert fake complains about nokia's behaviour | 18:09 |
| RST38h | FN has got a few uses, but not everything you find there has a reason to exist | 18:09 |
| javispedro | in this very channel | 18:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt_, on FN? | 18:09 |
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| lbt_ | I thought I'd at least tag it to be an old maemo | 18:09 |
| wazd | No. Everything is cool!* *-unless you're from russia | 18:09 |
| lbt_ | yes | 18:09 |
| lbt_ | on FM GeneralAntilles | 18:09 |
| RST38h | javis: That is to look legit, no doubt | 18:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt_, awesome. | 18:09 |
| RST38h | wazd: Didn't you have to learn that BEFORE having to deal with FN? =) | 18:10 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 18:10 | |
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| timeless_mbp | so... i should probably try to stage maemo | 18:10 |
| javispedro | "The proposed strategy does not use dh_make to create the basic debian package structure" -- why? | 18:10 |
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| taril | Could someone anwser to my question? | 18:11 |
| andre__ | taril, can you repeat it? :-) | 18:11 |
| javispedro | the answer is "no", though. | 18:11 |
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| taril | is there any hardware specifik sdk for n900 under maemo (sensors, camera, etc) | 18:12 |
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| lbt_ | taril: no | 18:12 |
| taril | thansk | 18:12 |
| lbt_ | just the device | 18:12 |
| taril | anw wont be? i dont know nokia"s pocitic | 18:12 |
| taril | politic | 18:13 |
| lbt_ | mmm, to be clear, the SDK allows you to develop SW which can access the device hardware | 18:13 |
| taril | yes | 18:13 |
| lbt_ | however, there's no HW environment to test/run/develop on which has the HW present (other than the device ) | 18:14 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: either way, could you email quim about the FN .deb packaging issue? You'll have more .. er.. appropitate reasons than my "just sounds awful". | 18:14 |
| lbt_ | I added "This article describes packaging a Qt application for Maemo2008 for the N8x0 tablets. The process for Fremantle/N900 is different. " | 18:15 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: you are perfectly capable of doing so, or raise a bug on it | 18:16 |
| javispedro | guess that and the diablo UI screenshot will be enough to deter people. | 18:16 |
| gour | is there lot of work to port app for maemo-5/n900 ? | 18:16 |
| timeless_mbp | gour: from Atari 400? | 18:16 |
| andre__ | gour, hard to generalize ;-) | 18:16 |
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| gour | timeless_mbp: no, from maemo-4 | 18:17 |
| gour | :-) | 18:17 |
| taril | my company has to decide quicly to develop any app for n900 (navigation, gles accelerated apps...) or not, if sdk-s ar missing we abandon n900 and maemo | 18:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | gour: it's mostly afaik just changing classes | 18:18 |
| Khertan | taril: lol | 18:18 |
| Khertan | taril: sdk aren't missing | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | taril: we have sdk but some things cannot be emulated without a proper device. | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | GLES can, navigation can't. but you are doing bad design if you can't work around that | 18:18 |
| taril | i have n900 | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | well then what's the problem.. :P | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | there's APIs you can code towards | 18:19 |
| timeless_mbp | taril: for navigation you could write a replacement gps module which emulates random coordinates | 18:19 |
| Khertan | clearly bad design | 18:19 |
| timeless_mbp | s/emulates/emits/ | 18:19 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: taril: for navigation you could write a replacement gps module which emits random coordinates | 18:19 |
| timeless_mbp | it wouldn't be too hard to do | 18:19 |
| timeless_mbp | and it'd be a great favor to the community if you did it | 18:19 |
| Khertan | someone know the firmware of the final n900 device ? | 18:19 |
| timeless_mbp | 42-11 ? | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | taril: all the APIs needed to work those things are in SDK. | 18:20 |
| Khertan | thx timeless_mbp | 18:20 |
| taril | really? | 18:20 |
| lcuk | hasnt a generic fake gps module been developed ever? | 18:20 |
| taril | in the maemo5 sdk? | 18:20 |
| lcuk | how on earth have people ever managed to develop gps apps without such a thing! | 18:20 |
| lbt_ | GeneralAntilles: javispedro. I mailed Ron the site admin | 18:20 |
| gour | is it n900 really replacement for n8x0 or more nokia's answer to compete on the smart-phone field (palm pre, droid...)? | 18:21 |
| Khertan | gour: yes | 18:21 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: dunno | 18:21 |
| kynky | its part of their long term plan i thought | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | taril: yes - but you can't assume you can run it -on- SDK | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | you can put it on your device and it would work :) | 18:22 |
| lcuk | cant you just plug in a bt/usb sat nav thing and have it work | 18:22 |
| lcuk | that was my understanding, like in maemo mapper you can tell it the gps device address | 18:22 |
| mgedmin | gour, both | 18:22 |
| lbt_ | taril: have you read up on the Maemo5 SDK? Theres a *huge* amount of docs for it | 18:22 |
| taril | and what about gsensors, ligght sensor.... | 18:22 |
| mgedmin | except more first than second | 18:22 |
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| mgedmin | "step 4 out of 5" etc | 18:22 |
| taril | no, i havent read a lot about it | 18:23 |
| lbt_ | but you're about to "give up on it" ? | 18:23 |
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| Stskeeps | taril: sensors are accessible on device, but not within SDK :P | 18:23 |
| lbt_ | taril : http://maemo.org/development/ | 18:23 |
| lbt_ | taril: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_api_documentation/ | 18:24 |
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| lcuk | taril, what do your team develop for/on at the moment | 18:24 |
| taril | windows mobile | 18:24 |
| lbt_ | taril: they should give you some ideas about the coverage | 18:25 |
| taril | multimedia | 18:25 |
| lbt_ | HTH | 18:25 |
| lcuk | can you access gps and accelerometers there? | 18:25 |
| kynky | htc have really open api :) | 18:25 |
| taril | sure | 18:25 |
| taril | samsung | 18:25 |
| javispedro | not within the MS device emu | 18:25 |
| taril | htc is nothing | 18:25 |
| javispedro | but IIRC | 18:26 |
| javispedro | heh | 18:26 |
| taril | we dont vcare about htc devices | 18:26 |
| kynky | at least samsung document stuff, htc is a joke | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | taril: you'll be fine on Maemo. you can access most stuff and there's apis for things | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | go look at the documentation :) | 18:26 |
| taril | maemo and n900 soungds great | 18:26 |
| taril | at the moment | 18:26 |
| kynky | it feels great too | 18:26 |
| taril | or we will wait for samsung bada OS | 18:26 |
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| Khertan | [17:26] <taril> or we will wait for samsung bada OS <<< lol | 18:27 |
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| zaheerm | taril, gstreamer is used on n900, palm pre and others... | 18:28 |
| kynky | you should use a LiMo to drive you there | 18:28 |
| taril | cool | 18:28 |
| zaheerm | taril, you may as well fiddle around on the n900 | 18:28 |
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| zaheerm | limo also uses gstreamer i believe | 18:28 |
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| taril | but who has limo? | 18:28 |
| * kynky prefers mplayer | 18:28 | |
| kynky | vodafone h1 m1 | 18:29 |
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| kynky | gstreamer reminds me too much of dshow | 18:29 |
| taril | ok | 18:30 |
| woglinde | kynky but gstreamer is the only arch which has dsp support for now | 18:30 |
| Robot101 | gstreamer and mplayer aren't comparable | 18:30 |
| kynky | but i guess it easier for companies to produce paid for plugins to gstreamer, than for say mplayer | 18:31 |
| woglinde | robot depends | 18:31 |
| Robot101 | if you want to implement a media player *and* a VOIP client *and* a streaming client, you need a media framework | 18:31 |
| Robot101 | gstreamer is such a media framework | 18:31 |
| woglinde | goal of both is to play media files | 18:31 |
| Robot101 | not true | 18:31 |
| javispedro | omg, "So I bought the HTC HD2" thread on TMO. | 18:31 |
| * javispedro grabs the popcorn | 18:32 | |
| Robot101 | nokia can put a H.264 decoder into gstreamer that runs on their DSP and use it for playing back media files and for video conferencing | 18:32 |
| range | Oh it's Winmo but you don't see it! | 18:32 |
| kynky | Robot101, the important thing for me is ffmpeg | 18:32 |
| Robot101 | the important thing for nokia isn't ffmpeg, and you can load all of the ffmpeg codecs into gstreamer anyway. | 18:32 |
| RST38h | javis: So, would you bet at which post in this thread iPhone will come up? | 18:33 |
| taril | Who use LIMO Samsung? | 18:33 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: first one | 18:33 |
| RST38h | javis: Oh shit | 18:33 |
| taril | Samsung hasnt any docu ablut it, its nothing, noone will delvelop apps for limo | 18:33 |
| woglinde | Robot101 the codec is already there | 18:33 |
| RST38h | Why would Samsung have documentation for anything? They make feature phones not smart phones | 18:33 |
| kynky | ive just found mplayer to be more beneficial to me than gstreamer, developer wise gtreamer is easy to use, you can make a movie player in one line of code | 18:33 |
| * mgedmin hates synchronizing his nokia n900 and his nokia 6600 calendars BY HAND LIKE A CAVEMAN | 18:34 | |
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| Khertan | mgedmin: did you have try to sync the other way ? | 18:35 |
| kynky | for instance i use mplayer on my desktop , but hardly ever use totem (with gstreamer support, preferred xine backend anyway) | 18:35 |
| Khertan | launching sync between my n900 and Nokia 6500 didn't work when launch from n900 | 18:35 |
| Khertan | but work when launch from the Nokia 6500 | 18:36 |
| zaheerm | kynky, install gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg | 18:36 |
| zaheerm | on your n900 | 18:36 |
| zaheerm | then you have the ffmpeg decoders | 18:36 |
| mgedmin | Khertan, I've no clue how to even launch sync | 18:36 |
| kynky | wish my gstreamer had arrived by now, lol | 18:36 |
| gour | what app is available for syncing contacts in n900? | 18:36 |
| kynky | my n900, i mean [fail] | 18:36 |
| Khertan | mgedmin: an other solution, go to ovi and you should be able sync your nokia 6600 with ovi | 18:37 |
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| mgedmin | hmm | 18:37 |
| taril | will you see any future for maemo n900? | 18:37 |
| Khertan | and then sync your ovi account with your n900 | 18:37 |
| Robot101 | woglinde: what codec is already there? nokia wants to run the video codecs on the DSP or they will burn power | 18:37 |
| taril | do you see | 18:37 |
| Khertan | gour: contacts | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | sync is scary | 18:37 |
| Khertan | taril: no we didn't see any future ... iphone will take all the market ... | 18:37 |
| taril | dont think so | 18:38 |
| taril | not in europe | 18:38 |
| javispedro | yes! :) | 18:38 |
| * Klowner sits in dirt, tearing his clothes and screaming | 18:38 | |
| * Khertan want to remember to taril that he are on #maemo | 18:38 | |
| kynky | zaheerm, i got a pretty good idea how gstreamer works, i mean gstreamer model is more legal than mplayer model, cos u can opt out of distributing the dodgy parts | 18:38 |
| taril | do not scare me | 18:38 |
| taril | we jut abandon iphone develpment because my idea, maemo and n900 | 18:38 |
| taril | :D | 18:38 |
| taril | just | 18:39 |
| Khertan | maemo will rocks ... of course | 18:39 |
| taril | we have just | 18:39 |
| Khertan | but as you are on a maemo irc channel ... | 18:39 |
| taril | ok, i wont be fired by myself, cool :D | 18:39 |
| Khertan | you ll only get one answer ... : of course we believe in the plateform | 18:39 |
| gour | is there support for Cal/CardDAV in maemo? | 18:39 |
| javispedro | well not me. I'm just here to waste my time. | 18:40 |
| javispedro | ;) | 18:40 |
| taril | ok | 18:40 |
| Klowner | abandon iphone dev for maemo? seems.. drastic, why not both? | 18:40 |
| taril | we have winmo | 18:41 |
| taril | iphone development is full | 18:41 |
| taril | and awful | 18:41 |
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| kynky | does the iphone nda let u say that iphone dev is awful? | 18:41 |
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| Klowner | heh | 18:42 |
| taril | and apple and microsoft can do me a faveor anyway... | 18:42 |
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| ShadowJK | kynde, if you remove all the dodgy parts you are left with nothing usable, in both gstreamer and mplayer :-) | 18:43 |
| kynky | winmo has had same fugly widget set for far too long | 18:43 |
| ShadowJK | though nokia obviously bribes mpeg-la so there shouldn't be any problems with mpeg4 codecs you'd think | 18:43 |
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| ShadowJK | however they found noone to bribe for ogg, so that's not included by default ;P | 18:44 |
| javispedro | oh, the ogg issue again :) | 18:44 |
| taril | every stupid idiot develops for iphone | 18:44 |
| kynky | ShadowJK, thought gstreamer was very mucha media framework, like dshow is in windows. I like mplayer cos ffmpeg feels pretty much all my meda needs, mplayer supports vdpau and dts and dd really wll for me, no hassle, gstreamer has been alot more hassle for me | 18:44 |
| ShadowJK | *nod* | 18:45 |
| woglinde | kynky again mplayer has no sgx dsp support | 18:45 |
| woglinde | only neon through ffmpeg | 18:45 |
| woglinde | args | 18:45 |
| woglinde | cut out sgx | 18:45 |
| woglinde | sgx was 3d | 18:45 |
| taril | will you buy a useable gles application or a gps navigator for n900? | 18:46 |
| kynky | thought vlc was getting optmised for n900, when that happens i thought mplayer would too ? | 18:46 |
| woglinde | vlc is based on ffmpeg too | 18:46 |
| kynky | yeah | 18:46 |
| kynky | same with xine and xbmc | 18:46 |
| joppu | but VLC is horrible. | 18:46 |
| zaheerm | kynky, they will need to use the dsp optimised codecs | 18:46 |
| woglinde | so if no dsp in ffmpeg so none in vlc or mplayer | 18:46 |
| kynky | yeah vlc is horrible | 18:46 |
| woglinde | vlc server rockz | 18:47 |
| zaheerm | xine is pretty much unmaintained | 18:47 |
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| javispedro | "useable gles application"? | 18:47 |
| javispedro | as for the navigator, I guess people pretty much openly HATE NOKIA MAPS TO DEATH | 18:48 |
| ShadowJK | The TI DSP compiler doesn't work with ffmpeg, one of the mostly-ARM ffmpeg developers said. I think he was submitting bugreports to TI. Not sure if they are as useless as gcc bugreports though... | 18:48 |
| qwerty12 | javispedro: for good reason. | 18:48 |
| kynky | zaheerm, cant be impossible for ffmpeg to use dsp codecs though, even though it hasnt been done yet ? i would imagine ffmpeg working on omap platform to be beneficial ? | 18:48 |
| taril | GLES APPS: games and user app that use opengles | 18:49 |
| woglinde | ShadowJK hm there isnt much dsp development in ffmpeg yet | 18:49 |
| mgedmin | nokia maps? is that the same thing as ovi maps? | 18:49 |
| taril | a video palyet, photo editor etc | 18:49 |
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| ShadowJK | woglinde, well if the compiler explodes when he tries to use it.. :) | 18:49 |
| joppu | Nokia maps is former Ovi Maps | 18:49 |
| woglinde | shadowjk? | 18:49 |
| feri | RST38h: anonymous rating disabled in app catalog: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/free42/ | 18:49 |
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| kynky | what cant the mplayer in extras-devel do ? on n900 | 18:50 |
| zaheerm | kynky, ffmpeg is just a bunch of codecs | 18:50 |
| woglinde | shadowjk do you have a pointer? | 18:50 |
| jkridner|work | felipe`: I'm very excited about http://www.schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/ | 18:50 |
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| zaheerm | kynky, apps should use the TI provided codecs that exist on the n900 and other omap3 platforms | 18:50 |
| javispedro | hey, portrait mode looks awesome | 18:50 |
| ShadowJK | woglinde, it was on IRC and I don't have access to TI's bugtrackers :) | 18:50 |
| kynky | i would saythe codecs in ffmpeg are pretty popular though | 18:50 |
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| zaheerm | kynky, no need to wrap those codecs in ffmpeg | 18:50 |
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| woglinde | jkridner you are aware of TI's left and right hand? | 18:50 |
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| zaheerm | jkridner|work, yes it is very exciting | 18:50 |
| taril | ok, see you later, thanks the answers!!! | 18:51 |
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| zaheerm | jkridner|work, i fancy trying to package it up to try it out | 18:52 |
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| jkridner|work | woglinde: maybe some bits in the middle. | 18:52 |
| jkridner|work | maybe a finger or two. | 18:52 |
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| kynky | so the way ffmpeg treats vdpau on nvidia gpu could be the same way it treats using the dsp, off loads it to a dedicated processing unit ? | 18:53 |
| kynky | or am i just talking crazy | 18:53 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 18:53 |
| woglinde | jkridner its sad story | 18:53 |
| ShadowJK | vdpau on nvidia is treated more like xvmc | 18:53 |
| kynky | xvmc is pretty much dead though | 18:53 |
| kynky | vaapi on ati and intel i think, cant remember | 18:54 |
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| zeev | Hi, did anybody got already his preordered N900? | 18:55 |
| ShadowJK | vdpau and vaapi do have modes that are closer to the way a dedicated hardware codec or independent codec running on the dsp would work, though | 18:55 |
| ShadowJK | zeenix, no | 18:55 |
| ShadowJK | oops | 18:55 |
| ShadowJK | zeev, no | 18:55 |
| woglinde | vaapi is mor universal | 18:55 |
| zeev | ShadowJK: when is it supposed to arrive? | 18:55 |
| kynky | 17th ? | 18:55 |
| * ShadowJK is guessing 27th | 18:55 | |
| joppu | a good front-end for mplayer would be nice since I'd prefer that as my primary video player due to it's good performance. | 18:56 |
| ShadowJK | or if we're talking about when it'd be in my hands I'd guess fifth | 18:56 |
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| kynky | joppu, there is smplayer , arguably best gui front end, and it uses qt, which im guessing n900 suppports | 18:57 |
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| ShadowJK | I wonder of theora on neon performs sufficiently better than the dsp version to offset the vorbis decoding too... | 18:57 |
| woglinde | hm I hope I find now time to test both dsp video solutions | 18:57 |
| lcuk | MAFW was once touted as allowing gstreamer and mplayer backend capability, how well that would work if you wanted to push it in practice, i dont know | 18:57 |
| kynky | joppu, but it sounds like that gstreamer will perform better than mplayer because gstreamer will be able to use the dedicated dsp chip | 18:57 |
| joppu | kynky: I know, I love smplayer and that's what I primarely use. | 18:57 |
| lcuk | but if it did, then you would be able to switchout gstreamer and use mplayer in the default media player | 18:57 |
| woglinde | totem is frontend to gstreamer | 18:58 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: mplayer has never been mentioned afaik, am I missing something? | 18:58 |
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| kynky | i dont really like totem | 18:58 |
| woglinde | jo lardman | 18:58 |
| lardman|gone | woglinde: am off, cu all tomorrow | 18:58 |
| woglinde | ah okay | 18:58 |
| woglinde | bye lardman | 18:58 |
| joppu | gstreamer doesn't have as good performance as mplayer but the dsp could totally change that | 18:58 |
| qwerty12 | lardman|gone is now known lardman|can'tspell | 18:58 |
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| kynky | if gstreamer is to gtk , what would qt equivalent be ? | 18:59 |
| lcuk | RST38h, http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/02/first-look-the-maemo-5-multimedia-framework.ars | 18:59 |
| woglinde | kynky phonon | 19:00 |
| woglinde | or gstreamer | 19:00 |
| ShadowJK | joppu, if only because the DSP has access to the (undocumented) dedicated video acceleration units :) | 19:00 |
| waz1 | arsetechnica xD | 19:00 |
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| kynky | is it in nokias iontrest to push phonon then, or has gstreamer gained too much traction ? | 19:00 |
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| javispedro | phonon uses gstreamer.... | 19:01 |
| woglinde | kynky *sigh* ti supports gstreamer | 19:01 |
| kynky | fair enough, i never looked into phonon | 19:01 |
| javispedro | it's basically yet another level of abstraction | 19:01 |
| javispedro | which afaik can have both dshow and gstreamer as backends on windows | 19:02 |
| kynky | sounds crazy | 19:02 |
| * andre__ wonders whether there is a "kde platform overview" picture somewhere | 19:02 | |
| ShadowJK | but even if the DSP codecs are slower than, say, ffmpeg on neon, they do free the CPU for audio decoding.. | 19:02 |
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| woglinde | shadow *g* | 19:03 |
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| zaheerm | kynky, gstreamer is not tied to gtk | 19:05 |
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| zaheerm | kynky, it is used by many things qt and other toolkits | 19:05 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Oh it is just Ars' wishful thinking ;) | 19:06 |
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| zaheerm | woglinde, nothing to do with TI, i think they don't care at all re: gstreamer or anything else | 19:06 |
| zaheerm | also qt people say phonon is deprecated | 19:06 |
| kynky | zaheerm, i thought it was used by other toolkits because it was proven, had gained traction, and so no point reinventing the wheel | 19:06 |
| waz1 | qwerty12: I'll draw you some transmission stuff today | 19:07 |
| waz1 | Beware! xD | 19:07 |
| zaheerm | kynky, it is a little sad that just because there is a g at the beginning, there is a belief that it is tied to gtk | 19:07 |
| qwerty12 | *gulp*. Thanks, waz1! | 19:07 |
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| kynky | but i did think gstreamer orginated from the gtkside of things | 19:07 |
| CoreF | Hello everyone! | 19:07 |
| greenfly | it's just as likely the g is for gnu | 19:07 |
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| zaheerm | kynky, a few of the devs use gnome, doesn't mean it is a gnome/gtk project... | 19:08 |
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| zaheerm | and harmattan will use gstreamer, and it won't use phonon at all | 19:08 |
| waz1 | qwerty12: what do you think is better - custom theming or generic? | 19:09 |
| gour | i've asked about tryton client running on maemo, but i'm told that mx.datetime is missing. what is the status (if any) about that egenix stuff? | 19:09 |
| qwerty12 | waz1: Generic, I guess. Not sure how I'd go trying to implement anything custom... | 19:10 |
| gour | hmm, it looks that i've found a repo - http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/e/egenix-mx-base/ | 19:10 |
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| qwerty12 | gour: I uploaded the python egenix stuff for Diablo | 19:10 |
| woglinde | worst gstreamer modul is gvfs | 19:10 |
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| qwerty12 | gour: If you need it for Fremantle, I guess I could reupload it for Fremantle | 19:10 |
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| gour | qwerty12: thanks a lot. atm i still do not own maemo device, but i'm considering it based on app i found for it ;) | 19:11 |
| zaheerm | woglinde, why is that? | 19:11 |
| waz1 | Qwerty12: Don't think - Obey! XD | 19:11 |
| kynky | zaheerm, would gobject be a gtk/gnome thing ? | 19:12 |
| zaheerm | woglinde, there is a kiosrc also somewhere if you don't like gvfs | 19:12 |
| qwerty12 | waz1: Yes, Sir :-) | 19:12 |
| zaheerm | kynky, gobject is used by gtk and gstreamer | 19:12 |
| zaheerm | kynky, it is a way of doing some OO stuff in C | 19:12 |
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| waz1 | And seriously, why nobody considered to hildonize openoffice? | 19:14 |
| kalikianatoli | haha | 19:14 |
| waz1 | Is is it that crazy? | 19:14 |
| kalikianatoli | sorry but I can't take that seriously :-) | 19:14 |
| kalikianatoli | openoffice is a huge beast even on an intel dual core | 19:15 |
| kynky | zaheerm, i just had it in my head that gstreamer had gtk roots, doesnt really matter though | 19:15 |
| kalikianatoli | I ran it on an 810 | 19:15 |
| kalikianatoli | it was no fun | 19:15 |
| javispedro | but it also seems qt may abandon Phonon after all http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/09/09/multimedia-in-qt-whats-the-story/ | 19:15 |
| zaheerm | javispedro, what i said earlier | 19:15 |
| kalikianatoli | waz1, you can try it out with easydebian and see how long openoffice takes to startup | 19:16 |
| javispedro | ah | 19:16 |
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| waz1 | Well, I'd rather have a bit slow but uber-functional editor than nothing at all | 19:16 |
| kynky | compilling oo is fun | 19:17 |
| woglinde | kynky whats the fun? | 19:17 |
| woglinde | its pretty much the same | 19:17 |
| woglinde | as compiling c | 19:17 |
| kynky | seeing how much disk space it uses | 19:17 |
| waz1 | And we can remove some really sophisticated functionality I guess | 19:17 |
| ShadowJK | abiword seemed to be usably light on N8x0 | 19:18 |
| waz1 | Well, whatever, I was just asking) | 19:19 |
| kynky | waz1, there is google apps for editing docs ? dunno if that helpful though | 19:20 |
| ShadowJK | and the koffice effort.. | 19:20 |
| KMFDM | yeah id really like an odt and doc editor at least | 19:21 |
| woglinde | hm the author of http://www.schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/ isnt aware that there are two soulutions from ti | 19:21 |
| woglinde | for mpeg4 dsp | 19:22 |
| kynky | wonder if you could get an arm vm running, put wince on it just for ms office :) | 19:22 |
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| woglinde | kynky lol you didnt see vmware running on n800? | 19:22 |
| zaheerm | woglinde, 2 solutions meaning? | 19:22 |
| woglinde | let me grab the youtube video for you | 19:22 |
| kynky | cheers :) | 19:22 |
| woglinde | zaheerm one from beagleboard stuff one from wireless | 19:22 |
| ShadowJK | I wouldn't try run openoffice or msoffice.. both are sluggish on PCs even, so I wouldn't expect much of them on N900 :) | 19:23 |
| woglinde | kynky http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=vmware+n800+youtube&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:de:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=gET8SrXyCcrDsgaP5cCcBQ&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBAQqwQwAA# | 19:23 |
| woglinde | hm | 19:23 |
| woglinde | long url | 19:23 |
| kynky | ShadowJK, ms office arm verson on winmo is pretty lightweight and responsive | 19:23 |
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| javispedro | and useless | 19:24 |
| kalikianatoli | waz1, for what I want, abiword is faster and works fine, no need to wait ages for startup | 19:24 |
| joppu | isn't abiword pretty lightweight? | 19:24 |
| cosmo | does abiword support full odf nowadays? | 19:24 |
| corefusion- | shorter url for the vmware on n800 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFAT9RZ5OyQ | 19:24 |
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| woglinde | hm the dsp theora stuff is openmax based too | 19:25 |
| kynky | woglinde, so if that vm could use hw gps then i could use tomtom ? :) | 19:25 |
| gour | heh, there emacs for maemo as well.. | 19:25 |
| woglinde | maybee thats why koen didnt support it in oe yet | 19:26 |
| zaheerm | woglinde, wher eyou get that idea re: openmax? | 19:26 |
| woglinde | http://code.entropywave.com/git?p=ew-leonora-beagle-demo.git;a=blob_plain;f=README;hb=master | 19:26 |
| woglinde | zaheerm I am klicking the links on the blogposts | 19:26 |
| woglinde | you know | 19:26 |
| woglinde | sometimes it maybee porn *g* | 19:26 |
| zaheerm | http://code.entropywave.com/git?p=libomxil-bellagio.git;a=summary | 19:26 |
| zaheerm | ok got you | 19:26 |
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| zaheerm | tho it looks like he changed tact and went with ti-dspbridge | 19:28 |
| zaheerm | http://code.entropywave.com/git?p=leonora.git;a=tree;f=dsp;h=48a51e5c8788967102520a142df50b78afbebd78;hb=HEAD | 19:28 |
| kynky | woglinde, i guess kvm has a good chance of working too, since it native to linux kernel ? | 19:28 |
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| woglinde | kynky dont know if kvm works with arm | 19:28 |
| corefusion- | Have you guys played around with the accelerometer on the N900 yet? How good is it? | 19:28 |
| kalikianatoli | kvm requires hardware support | 19:28 |
| CShadowRun | Does anyone know what the differences are between the UK and US models of the N900? | 19:28 |
| kalikianatoli | I don't think the arm cpu has that | 19:28 |
| woglinde | kalikianatoli ah right | 19:29 |
| zaheerm | CShadowRun, the charger | 19:29 |
| CShadowRun | That's it? lol | 19:29 |
| joppu | CShadowRun: I'd guess virtually nothing | 19:29 |
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| zaheerm | CShadowRun, yep | 19:29 |
| kynky | lguest doesnt need hw support, but a lot slower than kvm, maybe vbox then ? | 19:29 |
| CShadowRun | I was wondering if they have different keyboards | 19:29 |
| zaheerm | same keyboard | 19:29 |
| woglinde | zaheerm as I said I hope find the time to test both | 19:29 |
| CShadowRun | (In UK, shift+3 is £ instead of # for example) | 19:29 |
| CShadowRun | cool | 19:29 |
| woglinde | zaheerm felipe claims dspbridge consumes more power, but personal I dont believe it | 19:30 |
| javispedro | kynky: since when is paravirtual slower than hw assisted virtualization? | 19:30 |
| kynky | will the us model come with a us charrger , the uk one with uk charger ? maybe handbooks be in diff languages ? | 19:30 |
| zaheerm | yah maybe the us version will have spanish too | 19:30 |
| zaheerm | and the uk one just english | 19:30 |
| kynky | javispedro, i thought lguest was slower than kvm ? | 19:30 |
| CShadowRun | It charges by USB anyway and i have plenty of USB chargers lieing about | 19:31 |
| javispedro | well I have no benchmarks but there should be no theoretical reason for that... | 19:31 |
| ShadowJK | CShadowRun: lol | 19:31 |
| kynky | charges by micro-usb | 19:31 |
| CShadowRun | yea | 19:31 |
| ShadowJK | The charger must adhere to the usb charging standard. Almost none do ;) | 19:31 |
| CShadowRun | :( | 19:31 |
| CShadowRun | still cheaper anyway | 19:32 |
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| ShadowJK | But get a cheap non-original USB->Nokia 2mm or nokia bigger plug converter from DX, then you could try use the included 2mm -> microUSB adapter... | 19:32 |
| ShadowJK | totally insane, I know :) | 19:33 |
| corefusion- | doesn't that converter come with the sales package? | 19:33 |
| zaheerm | it does | 19:33 |
| Khertan | corefusion-: it does | 19:33 |
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| CShadowRun | there are US ones floating about on ebay buy it now for £360 | 19:34 |
| ShadowJK | corefusion-, the one that lets you use old nokia charger with the N900 | 19:34 |
| pupnik | yaay - recharging battery allows reflash! worked first time! | 19:34 |
| CShadowRun | compared to buying it direct from nokia for £500 | 19:34 |
| Flandry | I see that MAME isn't available, but is there a different arcade emulator for maemo.that i'm overlooking? | 19:34 |
| CShadowRun | which is why i ask :) | 19:34 |
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| Khertan | [18:34] <pupnik> yaay - recharging battery allows reflash! worked first time! ? | 19:35 |
| ShadowJK | But if you get a cheap USB->2mm adapter, they are usually wired straight with no electronics and randomly works and don't work depending on the computer used for USB source, then you can connect that to the included adapter. This chain of 2 adapters /might/ let you charge from "dumb" USB "Chargers" that just supply power | 19:35 |
| zaheerm | CShadowRun, there is still 10% quidco to be had on nokia.co.uk | 19:35 |
| CShadowRun | yup that only brings it down to £450 though | 19:36 |
| zaheerm | makes it about 450 | 19:36 |
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| Khertan | pupnik: did you have an image ? | 19:36 |
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| CShadowRun | compared to the 390 buy it nows on ebay, maybe there will be some even cheaper offers when it's actually released :P | 19:36 |
| corefusion- | ShadowJK: How does it differ from using the usb-cable that comes with the device? | 19:37 |
| ShadowJK | corefusion-, that cable will only work if you connect it to a computer that is awake and working or to a proper charging device | 19:37 |
| kynky | best value i seen n900 was at £252 gbp | 19:38 |
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| zash | does it work with the "dumb charger" spec? as in to short the data wires | 19:38 |
| CShadowRun | kynky, woa...where was that? | 19:38 |
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| kynky | nokia store | 19:38 |
| CShadowRun | I'd buy that right now for that price lol | 19:38 |
| CShadowRun | When did that happen? | 19:38 |
| corefusion- | ShadowJK: ok, so it needs the control signals to start charging? | 19:38 |
| kynky | few weeks ago, but they stopped it | 19:38 |
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| CShadowRun | aww :( | 19:38 |
| CShadowRun | shame, 50% off would have done me fine :P | 19:39 |
| kynky | was 3 x 15% off plus £50 cashback = £252 | 19:39 |
| CShadowRun | hehe | 19:39 |
| woglinde | karma karma | 19:39 |
| ShadowJK | corefusion-, I think the way to signal "I'm a charger, don't talk to me, just pull all the power you want", is to short the data wires together. If the data wires aren't shorted, and there's nothing talking on them to give you pemission to draw power, then it wont work, asI've understood it.. | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I tried that, but also added a battery | 19:39 |
| CShadowRun | what day is it supposed to be released again? | 19:39 |
| kynky | wish i had ordered battery | 19:40 |
| zash | ShadowJK: yes | 19:40 |
| zash | ShadowJK: shorted data wires = dumb charger, stfu and pull power! | 19:40 |
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| corefusion- | Ok | 19:41 |
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| ShadowJK | CShadowRun, so if they started shipping yesterday, or two days ago, if the ship isn't attacked by somali pirates, I imagine 2 - 3 weeks is the transit time, and then nokia shops in some places have 1 week exclusive.. | 19:44 |
| CShadowRun | i see | 19:45 |
| kynky | i thought it was getting shipped to resellers like amazon and mpd etc ? | 19:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: It's got to cross hte alps by elephant first though. | 19:46 |
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| corefusion- | How much will you guys be paying for your N900's, just curious. I'll be paying 23e/month for the N900 and 9,80e/month for unlimited 384kb/s data | 19:46 |
| corefusion- | for 2 years | 19:46 |
| * ShadowJK intends to pay off the credit card right away | 19:46 | |
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| SpeedEvil | corefusion-: 270 or so down, and 20 quid over 2 years for coverage. And 10 quid for insurance/year. | 19:47 |
| kynky | i didnt get a contract | 19:47 |
| woglinde | hm I dont will buy it, maybee my company does | 19:48 |
| SpeedEvil | corefusion-: Using a cashback program for the contract | 19:48 |
| woglinde | they alrady bought n8xx | 19:48 |
| kynky | where u get insurance from ? | 19:48 |
| woglinde | enough | 19:48 |
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| woglinde | SpeedEvil thats a lot money | 19:49 |
| corefusion- | SpeedEvil: How much you will get from cashback? | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | corefusion-: the cashback pays essentially for the contract | 19:49 |
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| kynky | SpeedEvil, dont forget your free phone | 19:49 |
| corefusion- | speedevil: oh, odd system :P we don't have things like that here at finland. | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.onecompare.com/ - select a nokia 1200 or something, and find a cashback contract where you have to send in stuff to claim. | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: not free phone | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: I'm buying that directly through nokia.co.uk for that. | 19:50 |
| kynky | i mean the free phone with your cashback contract | 19:51 |
| pupnik | ok this device is still amazing | 19:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | kynky: oh - right. That goes on ebay if I can unlock it. | 19:51 |
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| Unmenschlich | hello | 19:51 |
| Unmenschlich | is it true that the n800 can only use SDHC cards up to 8GB per slot, and not larger ones? | 19:52 |
| kynky | SpeedEvil, hope you dont get stung with cashback deal | 19:52 |
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| woglinde | Unmenschlich could be it only has 2.6.21 kernel | 19:53 |
| woglinde | hm | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: Planning on documenting everything very carefully, and if it doesn't work out as stated, taking them to small claims court. | 19:53 |
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| woglinde | maybe he didnt want to hear the answer | 19:53 |
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| woglinde | Unmenschlich could be it only has 2.6.21 kernel | 19:53 |
| Unmenschlich | hm okay, thank you | 19:53 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, humm, just received another comment from 'anonymous' o_0 | 19:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unmenschlich, no. | 19:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unmenschlich, it can use cards up to 2048GB. | 19:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | As long as you use something beside exFAT. | 19:54 |
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| Unmenschlich | ah okay, thanks, ext3 should do fine I guess | 19:55 |
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| * andre__ gets confused by the nicknames of some people here | 19:56 | |
| * frals bashes his head against the desk | 19:58 | |
| frals | gotta love no n900 in sweden before 1.1 is released... \o/ | 19:58 |
| qwerty12 | Good luck waiting for "1.1"... | 19:59 |
| woglinde | frals haha yes I saw the sim card stuck | 19:59 |
| frals | yeah | 19:59 |
| woglinde | damn gsm-modems | 19:59 |
| woglinde | *g* | 19:59 |
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| ShadowJK | frals, what is this? | 20:03 |
| woglinde | ShadowJK was in the comments on blogs.maemo.org | 20:04 |
| woglinde | slow slow maemo.org | 20:04 |
| frals | if you understand swedish: http://www.mobil.se/artikel/nokia_borjar_salja_supermobilen_n900_mob_091110130156-421.html | 20:04 |
| woglinde | shadowjk -> http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2009/11/houston-we-have-take-off.html | 20:05 |
| ShadowJK | frals, ja inga problem :) | 20:05 |
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| ShadowJK | frals, oh well, week 49 is only a week later than finnish nokia shop says it will start shipping.. | 20:08 |
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| frals | seems a bit silly as ive not heard anything like this from the other (three or so) countries that have the exact same problem :< | 20:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | woglinde, blogs.maemo.org? WTF? | 20:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | frals, should be before the end of the year, at least. | 20:12 |
| ShadowJK | week 49 is also the week that non-nokia shops and operators will start getting the phones (in limited quantitites) in Finland.. atleast you swedes get an excuse out of nokia, we don't :) | 20:12 |
| frals | GeneralAntilles: yeah, hopefully :) | 20:13 |
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| ShadowJK | (and we don't have "3" in .fi, or any other 3G-only operators) | 20:14 |
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| woglinde | GeneralAntilles yeah it isnt named blogs | 20:22 |
| woglinde | but most of the page from maemo.org | 20:23 |
| woglinde | *g* | 20:23 |
| woglinde | first page | 20:23 |
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| alterego | Is it possible to use sbox2 for maemo 5 dev? | 20:29 |
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| woglinde | alterego hm has only fremantle from april | 20:30 |
| alterego | Sorry? | 20:30 |
| woglinde | alterego in maemosdk+ which uses sbox2 you only have roottarget for fremantle version from april | 20:31 |
| gour | i'm reading some n900 review where it is mentioned that "memory available for installation of 3rd party software is limited to 256mb". is it true? | 20:31 |
| alterego | gour, no | 20:31 |
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| Stskeeps | gour: http://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem | 20:32 |
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| Stskeeps | most 3rd party software does optification now so | 20:32 |
| gour | alterego: good. i found update which says it is 2gb under /home/opt | 20:32 |
| gour | Stskeeps: thanks | 20:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | rcadden, betraying his ignorance in public once again. | 20:37 |
| pH5 | hi, is there a way to programatically place a phone call in maemo5 (call up the phone ui via d-bus call with a given number)? | 20:39 |
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| cosmo | pH5: afaik yes, but i don't know how | 20:40 |
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| aSIMULAter | seen konttori | 20:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ~seen konttori | 20:52 |
| infobot | konttori <n=konttori@a88-113-140-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 21h 32m 14s ago, saying: 'oh, n900 in uk for free with contract: http://www.nokiaretail.co.uk/Brands/Nokia/Nseries-Multimedia-Phones/sb489/p26078.htm'. | 20:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | You're slow, infobot. | 20:53 |
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| pupnik | hello? server down? | 20:59 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 20:59 |
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| pupnik | can not install qik, or update fremantle repo | 21:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, we just blocked you. | 21:02 |
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| fiferboy | I'm 2.5 Gs closer to 3G than I was this morning... | 21:08 |
| fiferboy | Data transmission is $0.05/KB, though... | 21:12 |
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| lbt | <sigh> | 21:14 |
| lbt | Mrs lbt: "Where's my n900?" | 21:15 |
| lbt | damned noob | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | point her to the shipping thread | 21:15 |
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| cosmo | what's a good way to run optify in rules so, that it won't fail non-maemo build? | 21:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, just put an N900 label on a 5800. | 21:17 |
| lbt | hmm, I have a 3110 | 21:17 |
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| wazd | "Where's Zed?" :D | 21:17 |
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| Xisdibik | wazd: Zeddicus Zul'Zorander? | 21:22 |
| zash | Zwho | 21:23 |
| zash | GeneralAntilles: *facepalm* | 21:23 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeddicus_Zu%27l_Zorander | 21:24 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 21:27 |
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| GAN900 | zash, what, they're both black and they both have touchscreens. ;) | 21:29 |
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| Jaffa | re | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Howdy, Jaffa. | 21:33 |
| wazd | Xisdibik: nah, Zed's dead :( | 21:35 |
| VDVsx | oh, Messi didn't spamed us today :( ^ | 21:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I hate comment moderation | 21:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyone here familiar w/ debian's build system? | 21:48 |
| lbt | as in Debian's or as in dpk-buildpkg | 21:49 |
| lbt | or, as they say... just ask ;) | 21:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | compare: | 21:50 |
| timeless_mbp | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/a/autoconf2.13/autoconf2.13_2.13.orig.tar.gz | 21:50 |
| timeless_mbp | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/a/autoconf2.13/autoconf2.13_2.13-54.diff.gz | 21:51 |
| timeless_mbp | of the file in the sdk repo, most files that have a diff patch files by the same file path as the archive structure in the .orig | 21:51 |
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| lbt | this is a very good move | 21:51 |
| timeless_mbp | (tar tzf autoconf2.13_2.13.orig.tar.gz; zgrep -- ^--- autoconf2.13_2.13-54.diff.gz) |less | 21:51 |
| timeless_mbp | autoconf-2.13/ChangeLog | 21:52 |
| timeless_mbp | --- autoconf2.13-2.13.orig/Makefile.in | 21:52 |
| lbt | are you unsure why they are there? | 21:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm unsure why autoconf-2.13/ and autoconf2.13-2.13.orig/ are not matching paths | 21:53 |
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| lbt | the patch is probably applied -p1 | 21:54 |
| lbt | so it depends on the person/process who made it | 21:54 |
| dmj726 | How do I make a hildon button that shows just an icon? | 21:54 |
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| crashanddie_ | gents, how can I run an app running on the n900 on a remote x11 server through SSH? | 21:57 |
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| crashanddie_ | (so app being run on N900 and displayed on remote computer) | 21:57 |
| lbt | X11Forwarding | 21:57 |
| crashanddie_ | no shit? | 21:58 |
| lbt | no shit | 21:58 |
| * Moo____ just got ssh++screen+irssi running in maemo. lovely. | 21:58 | |
| lbt | not sure if dropbear supports it | 21:58 |
| timeless_mbp | ssh -X ? | 21:58 |
| crashanddie_ | but really, I'm using putty, with x11 forwarding enabled, I have xming running, this setup works when connecting to another linux box | 21:58 |
| adeus | or just DISPLAY the window | 21:58 |
| crashanddie_ | however, when I ssh into the N900, and run an app, it just displays on the N900 | 21:59 |
| lbt | same LAN crashanddie_? | 21:59 |
| crashanddie_ | lbt: running openssh | 21:59 |
| crashanddie_ | lbt: yeah | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: is it a nokia app? | 21:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | because most nokia apps use the launcher | 21:59 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: trying anything, really | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | which means they aren't really 'running' | 21:59 |
| crashanddie_ | ah | 21:59 |
| lbt | export DISPLAY=<hostIP>:0.0 | 21:59 |
| lbt | run app | 21:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | you're actually running an app which just talks to a daemon and says "hey fork for X, here are some args" | 21:59 |
| lbt | if that fails you may need xhost + on host (or equiv) | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | the daemon says "oh, sure, no problem, i'll fork for that, and obviously I'll keep my DISPLAY" | 22:00 |
| lbt | timeless_mbp: good point... some apps do that | 22:00 |
| zaheerm | new app manager looks interesting: http://pixelpipe.com/item/1fb26ead-f012-4890-8f38-6fa800f5edcf | 22:00 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: any apps you know that don't do that? | 22:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | there's a maemo-launcher, a maemo-summoner, and a maemo-invoker | 22:00 |
| timeless_mbp | one of those lets you avoid that business | 22:00 |
| timeless_mbp | i typically try each until i find the one of invoker/summoner that does what i want | 22:00 |
| qwerty12_N900 | timeless_mbp: maemo-summoner starts a new maemo-launcher for each app you invoke it with | 22:00 |
| timeless_mbp | the first argument to them is <apppath?appname>.launch | 22:01 |
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| orbarron | hello all: can anyone let me know how I can switch targets? I am in [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: /] and I would like to move to another target I created... | 22:17 |
| fiferboy | sb-menu | 22:18 |
| kalikianatoli | orbarron, sb-conf select arm7 | 22:18 |
| kalikianatoli | or whatever target name | 22:18 |
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| orbarron | thanks... | 22:20 |
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| dmj726 | WHy was official python support dropped? | 22:23 |
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| kalikianatoli | because the person in charge had shivery hands and couldn't hold it | 22:24 |
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| lizardo | dmj726: python support was never official... | 22:24 |
| dmj726 | oh | 22:24 |
| lizardo | AFAIK :) | 22:24 |
| Klowner | dev was pinin' for the fjords | 22:24 |
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| dmj726 | So Maemo never had a soul? | 22:25 |
| kalikianatoli | I think the only bit that was ever included was the interpreter but no libraries | 22:25 |
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| dmj726 | was just curious. | 22:25 |
| Klowner | dmj726: I dunno, 32GB will hold a lot of barry white songs | 22:25 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: doesn't seem to want to work | 22:25 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: have you used it lately on the N900? | 22:25 |
| dmj726 | http://xkcd.com/413/ | 22:25 |
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| kalikianatoli | dmj726, it's probably determined that no support means that the community has even more control over it | 22:26 |
| dmj726 | I see | 22:26 |
| kalikianatoli | which is a good thing | 22:26 |
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| lizardo | dmj726: what is included by default is only a few packages on needed by SDK tools, on the device there is nothing python related by default | 22:26 |
| dmj726 | I had heard in the forums that support was dropped after 3.x | 22:26 |
| dmj726 | ...so I was curious | 22:26 |
| dmj726 | It seems to work just fine. | 22:27 |
| qwerty12_N900 | PyMaemo team have been doing a brilliant job, anyway, so "no official support" is a non-issue | 22:27 |
| * dmj726 has been messing with python on the sdk | 22:27 | |
| Klowner | yeah, pymaemo looks as though it's under active development | 22:27 |
| dmj726 | ...zoutube is now horribly mangled. | 22:27 |
| Klowner | seeing as their most recent blog post was yesterday | 22:27 |
| dmj726 | good documentation too. | 22:28 |
| dmj726 | now the docs just need more visibility | 22:28 |
| crashanddie_ | qwerty12_N900: dude, have you done this recently? | 22:29 |
| qwerty12_N900 | crashanddie_: My last attempts with X Forwarding were on an N800, and the end-result (when I did get it working) was total shit (and looked it, too) because of Sapwood issues | 22:31 |
| crashanddie_ | hmm | 22:31 |
| crashanddie_ | do we have a VPN server for the N900? | 22:31 |
| crashanddie_ | err, VNC | 22:32 |
| qwerty12_N900 | x11vnc | 22:32 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Should be in Extras-devel | 22:33 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie_: /usr/bin/maemo-invoker /usr/bin/osso_calculator.launch | 22:33 |
| timeless_mbp | seemed to do /something/ | 22:33 |
| lizardo | dmj726: yes, we have plans to do some site reorganization (including the documentation part) in a few weeks | 22:33 |
| crashanddie_ | timeless_mbp: shows an "Internal error" banner on the N900 | 22:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | at least your n900 is responsive! | 22:35 |
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| dmj726 | I'm not seeing how to make my buttons icon only | 22:36 |
| qwerty12_N900 | dmj726: GtkButton with a GtkImage as its child? Or HildonButton supports having an icon; you could use that and not set the title and value labels | 22:37 |
| dmj726 | ah | 22:38 |
| dmj726 | is there a stock set of icons guaranteed to be there? | 22:38 |
| lbt | when I build a package... it's linking against a .so that's not there | 22:39 |
| lbt | how do I find out why it wants that .so | 22:39 |
| lbt | this is linking xgettext... | 22:40 |
| lbt | ldd says the resultant binary needs both libgettextlib-0.17.so and libgettextlib-0.14.4.so | 22:40 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | dmj726: There are the GTK stock icons (http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/gtk-Stock-Items.html) which look rather fugly... But you can look in /usr/share/icons/hicolor and see if there is a suitable icon for you there. Bear in mind the device has more icons than the SDK in that folder... | 22:41 |
| lbt | I am 99% sure this is sbox screwing around | 22:41 |
| dmj726 | GTK_STOCK_MEDIA_PLAY okay...looks good | 22:42 |
| suihkulokki | lbt: try running /lib/ld-linux.so.2 --list /path/to/binary | 22:43 |
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| lbt | .so.2 ? | 22:44 |
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| suihkulokki | .3 on armel | 22:44 |
| lbt | .libs/MYxgettext: error while loading shared libraries: libgettextlib-0.14.4.so: cannot open shared object file: | 22:44 |
| lbt | essentially I'm compiling the fremantle gettext in the fremantle SDK | 22:45 |
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| lbt | if you have a Fremantle SDK the shipped binary has the same problem | 22:45 |
| lbt | but sbox hijacks it normally | 22:45 |
| lbt | try /lib/ld-linux.so.3 --list /usr/bin/xgettext in a normal SDK | 22:46 |
| lbt | suihkulokk ... thoughts? | 22:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | lbt: ooh | 22:52 |
| timeless_mbp | you got that error | 22:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i had that problem on some systems | 22:53 |
| * lbt thinks it's an SDK bug | 22:54 | |
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| lbt | not sure if gettext needs gettext to build... | 22:55 |
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| wazd | qwerty12_N900: around? | 22:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N900: did you have a patched source + binary for the cpl? | 22:58 |
| qgil | VDVsx: ping | 22:58 |
| kammi | hi | 22:58 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: http://s46.radikal.ru/i114/0911/39/b71881d0cf06.png | 22:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, agh, mein eyes! | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | speaking of msgfmt | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | can someone w/ a few mins and my package please poke me? | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: any reason not to have play/pause on the left side? | 23:00 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: these are default fremantle font sizes | 23:00 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: well, they can be on the left :) | 23:01 |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: 'effin awesome! Thanks! Although, what happened to my lovely toolbar? =) | 23:01 |
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| wazd | qwerty12_N900: say "bye-bye" to it :) | 23:01 |
| wazd | question to the croud - where to place timer | 23:01 |
| timeless_mbp | timer? | 23:01 |
| wazd | crowd* | 23:01 |
| wazd | estimated time | 23:02 |
| timeless_mbp | what are green/yellow? | 23:02 |
| frals | seeds/peers | 23:02 |
| qwerty12_N900 | timeless_mbp: The applet is the same; I haven't touched it since the last time I gave you the source and a binary | 23:02 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: they are just place holders | 23:02 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: haven't figured out good icons for them | 23:02 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N900: so i need to get code for getting the active gtk window? | 23:02 |
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| wazd | qwerty12_N900: that's just the very beginning though | 23:03 |
| VDVsx | qgil, pong | 23:03 |
| frals | eta could work at the far right after the % done i think ;o | 23:03 |
| lbt | do you need MB of MB and % and ETA | 23:03 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: what do you think bout "active" divider? :) | 23:04 |
| lbt | maybe X% of MB : ETA | 23:04 |
| qwerty12_N900 | timeless_mbp: I can pass the XID of the Control Panel window, myself, just wanted to know when you'd gotten your stuff ready for it | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | my stuff is kinda ready i think, but my vm lost its network | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | so i'm sidetracked | 23:04 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: Hmm, ATM, I'm just using filter buttons in the menu for the user to switch through torrents with different states... Considering the amount of space available, not sure deviating from that makes sense | 23:05 |
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| qgil | hi VDVsx, is there anything missing in th registration or are we ready to go? | 23:06 |
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| wazd | qwerty12_N900: I'll think bout them later, just wanted to show you an example of torrents list | 23:07 |
| qgil | if the only problem remaining is that couple of little details in the email sent to approved sponsored participants... | 23:07 |
| timeless_mbp | who was going to be my debian packaging helper? | 23:07 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: and that active divider idea :P | 23:07 |
| VDVsx | qgil, we need to change a word in the "sponsorship" email and fix one thing in the admin interface, but it's ready for the general public | 23:08 |
| * timeless_mbp eyes libhtml-tree-perl_3.18-1.diff.gz | 23:08 | |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: :) | 23:08 |
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| qgil | ...we can open registration and not approve people until is fixed, surely tomorrow | 23:08 |
| wazd | don't know how to describe "peer" with icon :D | 23:08 |
| qgil | ok, then I'll edit the pages right now | 23:08 |
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| VDVsx | qgil, feri went home, but I sent him the details | 23:08 |
| wazd | maybe just P and S | 23:08 |
| qgil | VDVsx & feri, thank you very much for your work today | 23:08 |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: A leech... :p | 23:08 |
| qgil | I would go happily to sleep right now, but you deserve a final sprint today ;) | 23:08 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: well, peer is not quite a leech :D | 23:09 |
| VDVsx | qgil, just 1 thing | 23:09 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: that's the problem) | 23:09 |
| VDVsx | qgil, when approve a participant don't use the checkbox in the participants list, there's a bug there | 23:09 |
| Corsac | hmhm, fun, it seems that n810 jabber could video chat with empathy on my desktop, but they can't agree on video codecs | 23:09 |
| Corsac | tp-fs-Message: tf_stream_error: stream error errorno=2 error=Codec negotiation failed: There was no intersection between the remote codecs and the local ones | 23:09 |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: Most are (I also hit-and-run :( ) :p | 23:09 |
| VDVsx | qgil, you need to click in the participant name and use the button inside the 'profile' | 23:09 |
| qgil | VDVsx: mmm ok | 23:10 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: anyway, I think S and P will fit | 23:10 |
| * qwerty12_N900 nodsw | 23:10 | |
| qwerty12_N900 | -w | 23:10 |
| qgil | I will look at this log tomorrow to see what you mean. ;) Now my brain is at minimum | 23:10 |
| VDVsx | qgil, ok, it's easy, I'll send a e-mail anyway | 23:11 |
| qgil | and anyway I don't need to approve anybody tonight | 23:11 |
| wazd | so we can make these squares blueish too | 23:11 |
| VDVsx | qgil, I think feri will hide that checkbox tomorrow :) | 23:11 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: are you familiar with cairo? :) | 23:11 |
| * w00t injects caffine into qgil | 23:11 | |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: Not very, I must admit... I've done some playing but my (lack of) maths skills does make trying to use it fun :) | 23:12 |
| qgil | The scoop goes here: http://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/ | 23:15 |
| frals | gah, the n900 is *kinda* popular at forum nokia remote device access >_< | 23:15 |
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| qgil | those of you willing/planning to go to http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-Barcelona_Long_Weekend please register there | 23:15 |
| qgil | In the registration you will see different focus areas | 23:16 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: http://s40.radikal.ru/i089/0911/f3/4b70e2a65d84.png | 23:16 |
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| qgil | there are potentially 3 activities in English with international scope | 23:17 |
| * SpeedEvil has passport, but not going. | 23:17 | |
| qgil | UX meets Code (confirmed) + localization workshop (if there is critical mass) + documentation workshop (idem) | 23:17 |
| * cosmo just uploaded his first app to maemo extras | 23:18 | |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: Looks good, will get to implementing this over the course of the weekend | 23:18 |
| qgil | and there are two activities for local/Spanish audience: developer training and presentation of the N900 (end user friendly activities) | 23:18 |
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| qgil | we will confirm the schedule based on the registration | 23:18 |
| qgil | any questions, just ask | 23:19 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: what I think - to make icons change their color with the theme we can just draw rectangle and black sign above it | 23:19 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: screw rounded corners :) | 23:19 |
| RST38h | helo qgil | 23:20 |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: Hehe | 23:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | Square is the new rounded! | 23:21 |
| RST38h | wazd: oh yesss (the image) | 23:21 |
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| cosmo | btw, what does autobuilder do when i'm uploading two packages, and the second depends on the first? | 23:21 |
| wazd | RST38h: :) | 23:22 |
| wazd | RST38h: where to place "minutes remain"? | 23:22 |
| Corsac | hmhm, ok, seems that n810 only has H263-* codecs | 23:23 |
| Corsac | which aren't available freely >< | 23:23 |
| wazd | RST38h: it's really essential stuff but I'm really stuck | 23:23 |
| Corsac | is there a way to add more codecs to ffmpeg/gstreamer on the n810? | 23:23 |
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| Corsac | hmhm though it seems that I would even need theora | 23:24 |
| aSIMULAter | hrm i would like to attend :/ o well | 23:24 |
| VDVsx | wazd, don't like your mockup :P, you picked the wrong torrents :) | 23:24 |
| wazd | VDVsx: boobs.o.fire.XI.XviD.HD.avi? :D | 23:25 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N900, you ned to explain to wazd what is the right torrent to feature in a transmission screenshot | 23:25 |
| VDVsx | wazd, nah | 23:25 |
| RST38h | wazd: A moment | 23:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | Clearly linux distributions :) | 23:26 |
| Macer | ugh | 23:26 |
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| Macer | have to reinstall my zimbra ssl cert | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | also openstreetmap planet file | 23:26 |
| lcuk | aSIMULAter, then either speak and get on the ui heavy hitters list, or follow the instructions on the wiki page and forum thread | 23:26 |
| lcuk | catch qgil now whilst hes overtired ;) | 23:26 |
| lcuk | hi quim btw lol | 23:26 |
| VDVsx | SpeedEvil, wrong answer | 23:26 |
| wazd | I can write whatever I want :D | 23:26 |
| Macer | why does this take so damn long? :) | 23:26 |
| wazd | Internet.Archive.2008.rar :D | 23:26 |
| Macer | goddamn godaddy ssl certs | 23:26 |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: I think VDVsx (*shakes stick at him*) is referring to my habit of using IKEA Catalogue torrents... | 23:26 |
| * lcuk goes again, tv time | 23:26 | |
| SpeedEvil | Why... | 23:27 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N900, bingo ;) | 23:27 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: how dare you! | 23:27 |
| RST38h | wazd: I would make the "MB downloaded" and "time remaining" flip | 23:28 |
| qwerty12_N900 | I know, I know... :-( | 23:28 |
| RST38h | wazd: like the numbers at the airport display, you know | 23:28 |
| Macer | My father, oh my GOD (may his soul rest in perfect peace) before he died he called me and told me that he deposited the sum of Nine Million,United State Dollars. | 23:28 |
| Macer | hahahaha | 23:28 |
| wazd | RST38h: good point | 23:28 |
| Macer | wtf. i wasn't expecting that to get to my mail server.. nobody even has this addresss :) | 23:28 |
| RST38h | deposited where? | 23:28 |
| RST38h | to your mail server? is it still there? | 23:28 |
| Macer | yeah | 23:29 |
| Macer | i have to restart my mail server now though becuse i just installed a new ssl cert for it | 23:29 |
| Macer | it's always fun to restart zimbra | 23:30 |
| Macer | takes like 30 mins | 23:31 |
| wazd | RST38h: that's actually a really nice idea :D | 23:31 |
| Macer | but yeah. i love it when i get emails like that | 23:31 |
| Macer | the person who wrote it really put some effort behind the story :) | 23:31 |
| Macer | My father, (oh God! My father!) lied in a peaceful rest... | 23:32 |
| Macer | i wonder how many idiots they get with those emails :) | 23:32 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Macer: reward that effort by giving them some of your money... | 23:32 |
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| RST38h | wazd: everything has been invented before us... | 23:32 |
| Macer | qwerty12_N900: screw my money. let me give them my whole bank account :) | 23:32 |
| Macer | did you see castle? | 23:32 |
| RST38h | "The MPAA has successfully shut down an entire town's municipal WiFi because a single user was found to be downloading a copyrighted movie." | 23:32 |
| Macer | where the con man wound up conning the email guy out of a ton of money? | 23:32 |
| Macer | haha | 23:32 |
| qwerty12_N900 | lol | 23:32 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Can't say that I have, no :-) | 23:33 |
| Macer | that cracked me up | 23:33 |
| javispedro | argh, who edited the topic again? | 23:33 |
| javispedro | that unicode char is all over it again | 23:33 |
| Macer | i have to take a shower and start getting drunk | 23:33 |
| Macer | 3 day weekend :) | 23:33 |
| Macer | ugh zimbra is so slow to restart | 23:34 |
| Macer | goddamn java | 23:34 |
| *** javispedro changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt" | 23:34 | |
| GiantTalkingCow | Why get drunk for no reason? | 23:34 |
| Macer | Java: quasi-emulated C | 23:34 |
| Macer | my gf and i broke up | 23:34 |
| Macer | might as well get hammered | 23:34 |
| GiantTalkingCow | I see. I'd go for drugs over alcohol, personally. | 23:35 |
| Macer | then going to visit a friend of mine in cleveland and see about having a one night stand with some slutwhore from some bar | 23:35 |
| Macer | haha | 23:35 |
| lbt | javispedro: the Nokia forums guy got back to me : http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Featured_Articles | 23:35 |
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| lbt | sadly we lost a Maemo item for an S60 :) | 23:35 |
| javispedro | this would be the right time to say "better safe than sorry", but heh. | 23:36 |
| lbt | nah, he owes us one now ;) | 23:36 |
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| Macer | n900 out yet? | 23:37 |
| lbt | mine's out | 23:37 |
| Macer | :-P | 23:37 |
| lbt | just sitting there looking cute | 23:37 |
| * lbt polishes it a bit | 23:38 | |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: and btw, this UI is portrait ready | 23:38 |
| qwerty12_N900 | asimulator's cat has one; go mug it | 23:38 |
| LurkerXXX__ | I wonder what retail stores in the U.S. will have it. | 23:38 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N900: just place element groups in coloumns and that's it | 23:38 |
| qwerty12_N900 | wazd: Awesome, the current one is so not... :) | 23:38 |
| RST38h | you can actually get two n900s, one from asim's cat, and another one for holding that cat hostage | 23:39 |
| * javispedro sees wazd's mockup | 23:39 | |
| javispedro | looks cool | 23:39 |
| aSIMULAter | lul | 23:40 |
| aSIMULAter | :D | 23:40 |
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| * qwerty12_N900 's cat would yawn and go to sleep if I tried giving her this N900... | 23:42 | |
| * lbt 's cat uses his as a pillow... | 23:42 | |
| * javispedro hopes qwerty12 does not discover javispedro is in fact his cat | 23:43 | |
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| * corefusion- 's cat is not home atm, please leave a message after the peep... | 23:44 | |
| corefusion- | *peep* | 23:44 |
| qgil | javispedro, the publicity should be about the Long Weekend as a whole, not only the UX part. Anyway, that was my last sentence of the day. good night! | 23:45 |
| frals | nn o/ | 23:45 |
| javispedro | hey, nite! :) | 23:45 |
| qwerty12_N900 | 'night | 23:45 |
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| wazd | my cat uses mine... oh, wait :D | 23:51 |
| VDVsx | mikkov-, btw, you don't want a IRC cloak ? (sorry if GAN already asked you) | 23:52 |
| mikkov- | What would I need to do to use it? | 23:52 |
| Macer | FUCK | 23:52 |
| Macer | goddamn ssl cert is acting idiotic | 23:53 |
| mikkov- | I'm testing pidgin btw | 23:53 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | mikkov-: Identify to NickServ. That's about it | 23:53 |
| mikkov- | That means no then :) | 23:54 |
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| VDVsx | mikkov-, did that a while ago, that reminds me that I need to vote :) | 23:55 |
| mikkov- | Which are you going to vote? :) | 23:56 |
| mikkov- | UI is almost unusable | 23:56 |
| mikkov- | Or the menus at least | 23:56 |
| VDVsx | mikkov-, well is better than the maemo4 version I think | 23:56 |
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| mikkov- | Never tried that | 23:57 |
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| mikkov- | But this is pretty good once you get to chatting | 23:57 |
| VDVsx | mikkov-, and has *big* buttons | 23:57 |
| VDVsx | +- :P | 23:57 |
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| VDVsx | mikkov-, I will vote up, since the Q&A isn't meant to evaluate the UI (only if the UI works) :P | 23:59 |
| mikkov- | Actually I don't know how connect irc with this, I was just trying to make some sense of menu :) | 23:59 |
| zaheerm | VDVsx, are we emant to use that registration page at events yet? | 23:59 |
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