IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-10-30

timelessdid you check gconf?00:00
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ShadowJKuhsf, do you have shure earphones too?00:03
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timelessinstall a gconftool00:04
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uhsfShadowJK: I have Etymotics ER·4P earphones.00:06
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Dantonicinstalling gconfeditor00:06
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ShadowJKhm, what did P suffix mean again?00:07
* ShadowJK was interested in B but they stopped selling those afaict00:08
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Dantonictimeless, so I installed gconfeditor and I see under modest the accounts... should I just delete them?00:08
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uhsfPortable. meaning more bass for portable devices without pre-amp.00:09
aSIMULAturthat was annoying, netsplit the amount of people in this channel and ppl leaving and joining locked up my irc client00:09
timelessi don't work on modest00:09
uhsfI would like to have Shure SE530 earphones but they're more expensive.00:09
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timelessbut that's probably what i'd do, or rather, i'd read the keys and zap the ones that seem to need  zapping00:10
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Dantonictimeless, "zap"?00:10
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uhsfI will probably buy Shure Music Phone Adapter instead of the Nokia AD-43 but I don't know which to choose. MPA-2B: Works with Palm Treo™ smartphones. MPA-3C: Works with Apple iPhone (including 3G) and Blackberry Curve.00:11
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ShadowJKmaybe you could write and ask shure :)00:12
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timelessthink of gconf like the windows registry00:14
timelessif you aren't careful, you can probably ruin your system00:14
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timelessideally keys have a logical hierarchy and descriptive names/values00:14
uhsfFrom the MPA user guide, it's clearly the MPA-3C because MPA-2B is 2.5mm.00:15
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Davidetimeless, this is dantonic, worked, cleared keys and accounts disappeared.  tyvm for your help!!00:16
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uhsfnow i wish there won't be some connector lenght problems requiring some rubber ring spacer like i've read in maemo forums00:17
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* timeless frowns00:19
timelesssomeone will habe to talk me through opt at some point..00:19
infobottimeless meant: someone will have to talk me through opt at some point..00:19
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lcuktimeless, you have recent software havent you00:24
lcukhi btw00:24
b-man17could someone with an N900 show me the contents on /etc/hildon-welcome.d/default.conf? - i´m trying to write a bootsplash configuration applet for hildon-welcome, but no one has seemed to post the contents of this file anywhere :(00:24
timelessi have 37 and 39 running00:25
lcukcould you spend a couple of minutes just testing something for me please :$ minimum work other than looking00:25
timelessi have a 41-10 image in MyDocs..00:25
lcuki noticed this with media player open but i expect the same will occur with anything00:26
b-man17timeless: thanks :)00:26
lcukopen media player, then open the clock manager.  leave them both open on the dashboard.00:26
lcukso you see the time on the dashboard00:26
lcuklet a couple of minutes go by00:27
lcukand tell me if the time updates00:27
lcuki almost missed a train because of it00:27
lcukit was not refreshing until i clicked into the clock and brought it back to fullscreen00:27
b-man17timeless: where is that .avi file stored btw? /usr/share/hildon-welcome i presume?00:27
b-man17thank you lcuk :)00:28
timelessi presume you want to use a swf/js clock00:28
timelesswell, if you want it to work :)00:29
timelessit's definitely stuck00:29
lcuki clicked on the clock so i could set an alarm00:29
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timelessofficially, i'd suggest you get someone running 41-10 to confirm and then file a bug00:30
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timelessyou could confirm for yourself of course00:30
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timelessit's probably a power saving feature00:30
qwerty12_N810It is00:30
timelessit's more important that your phone work00:30
qwerty12_N810It checks to see if it is the topmost window00:31
timelessit's more important that your phone work-so you  can call a taxi when you miss your train00:31
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lcuki thought "ahhh, got 10mins left" but then clicked it and it was like 2 mins00:32
timelessfwiw, android's clock is cute00:32
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timelessit always shows the time changing from $(hour-1):$(min-1) to $(hour):$(min)00:32
timelesswhen you bring the clock app back into focus00:33
lcukbringing back to focus is different00:33
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lcukits a minute tick tho, it could realistically just update on that minute00:33
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timelessthe hour bit is what gets me00:33
timelesssince i usually only have it out of focus for minutes00:33
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timelessanyway, i should go home00:34
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timelessnot night, just home00:35
timelesssomehow the clock updated once00:35
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timelessre media files for hildon welcome00:35
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timelessplease just make a file splash.avi -> /home/user/.splash.avi00:36
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timelessthen your applet can manipulate a file in userspace00:36
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qwerty12_N810Should make it play the last 10 seconds of whatever was played last in the media player. Not sure it'd go down well in some cases, however...00:37
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timelesssplash eandom pr0n?00:38
qwerty12_N810Yep :-)00:38
infobottimeless meant: splash random pr0n?00:39
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GeneralAntillesaSIMULAtor, what client?00:40
GeneralAntillesUps, stuck in scrollback.00:40
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hardakerOh sure, *now* I have mod points.  Someone got make slashdot post a new N900 story.00:42
GeneralAntilleshardaker, the comments on that one were horrifying.00:46
hardakerthat's exactyl why I want another set to rate ;-)00:46
GeneralAntilleshardaker, every once and a while I see an article on /. on a subject that I'm intimately familiar with.00:46
hardakerand the comments are never good or correct are they ;-)00:46
GeneralAntillesand the comments in it are always filled with factual inaccuracies and general BS.00:46
GeneralAntillesWhich makes me very scared about the comment quality on the stuff I'm not familiar with.00:47
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GeneralAntillesWelcome home, timeless_mbp.00:48
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timeless_mbpso did anyone actually looked at my photo's metadata? :(00:51
* SpeedEvil has no exif viewer.00:51
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, yes, hilarious.00:52
timeless_mbpit isn't alone00:53
timeless_mbpi have a bunch of photos w/ that data00:53
javispedrosomething is wrong when the Nintendo DS has a bigger screen than the N900.00:53
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, the XL, you mean?00:54
javispedroof course.00:54
javispedro(whose slashdot TFA article references the N900, btw)00:54
GeneralAntillesWhat's the resolution? 256x192? :P00:54
javispedroarg to RAS syndrome.00:54
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: did you try that file from the pastebin?00:55
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GeneralAntillesNo, what's it trying to accomplish?00:55
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timeless_mbpa sane order for control panel00:56
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javispedroyes, 256x192 :D00:59
GeneralAntillesAh, yes, that is better.00:59
GeneralAntillesThe DSi has a really nice touchscreen.00:59
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GeneralAntillesHow do you make it update the stored screenshot?01:00
qwerty12_N810The same lame games on a bigger touchscreen. Woot.01:00
javispedrothe sensibility was horrible on the normal DS.01:00
GeneralAntilles(whoever decided to steal Jaffa's idea that he stole from Apple did it wrong)01:00
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't work better when you show a screenshot pretending that it's usable to make it seem like it's starting faster.01:00
GeneralAntillesYou should a rendered UI WITH NO CONTENT01:00
GeneralAntillesto show that it's loading.01:00
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qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: rm .cache/launch/
javispedrotime to open modest is hardly a few seconds here.01:02
GeneralAntillesI wish h-a-m weren't the slowest part of the whole goddamn OS.01:03
GeneralAntillesSince that's the gateway to everything interesting.01:03
javispedrobeing shown such a "greyed out" gui (it seems like one to me) would probably result in me believing the whole thing crashed01:03
qwerty12_N810Modest has first place, not h-a-m.01:03
GeneralAntillesModest is much faster than h-a-m for me.01:03
javispedroSince I applied the actually-delete-messages-from-cache patch it's way faster, but still.01:04
qwerty12_N810If you want to see slow h-a-m: Mer in Red Pill mode01:05
qwerty12_N810+and its h-a-m in Red Pill mode01:05
javispedroh-a-m launches quickly here.01:05
javispedrobut it's unusable for nearly a minute.01:05
GeneralAntillesOK, I'm officially more tired of hearing about Android than the iPhone.01:05
javispedromore like 10 seconds without -devel01:06
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: You're biased: your mum has one01:06
* javispedro hugs his N810 for no reason01:06
GeneralAntillesApple's at least up front about their evilness.01:06
GeneralAntillesGoogle's just torpedoing mobile open source development by sucking people into a closed platform.01:06
GeneralAntillesand these fools are eating it up.01:07
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: What's the punishment if you take a Sony Ericsson phone/an Android-running phone/iPhone into Nokia HQ?01:09
Stskeepsshame when someone calls you?01:10
DantonicBye everyone01:10
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qwerty12_N810I remember when I got my N900, Jussi asked me to put in the SIM and I felt embarassed when I pulled out a Sony Ericsson...01:11
Pavlovqwerty12_N810: they try to steal it from you so they can set custom ringtones for people01:12
timeless_mbplike the Hero the guy in the room 3 away from my manager?01:12
Stskeepsthey are good tethering phones01:12
timeless_mbphe seems to be doing ok01:12
timeless_mbpmy manager has an iPhone01:12
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timeless_mbprather, one of them01:13
qwerty12_N810Pavlov: lol01:13
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* GAN800 sighs01:14
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GAN800Comcast ate my awesome retort.01:15
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GAN800I've had the modem drop out for 1-10 minutes at least twice a day for the last 3.01:15
timeless_mbpgoogle calendar supports two time zones now :o01:15
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Bleh, you're timeless; you don't need timezones01:16
timeless_mbpyeah, but i'm taking 5 flights in the next 10 or so days01:16
timeless_mbppossibly 2 extra01:16
qwerty12_N810I'ma call you time_mbp from now on01:16
gavintimeful_mbp, please01:18
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timeless_mbpgavin: you around the bay area next week?01:18
gavinstuck in TO until december01:18
timeless_mbpwhich reminds me01:18
timeless_mbpi need to look into London or something in Dec01:18
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GeneralAntilles1You have to watch Anssi give a 40 minute presentation on using Facebook.01:20
GeneralAntilles1My awesome comeback, qwerty12_N810. :P01:20
qwerty12_N810Oh God01:20
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qwerty12_N810Does that include the extra "pirating is bad" scene?01:21
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zash+= "m'kay"01:22
lbtany news on summit session videos ?01:23
lbtI've not been keeping up over the last couple of weeks01:23
GeneralAntilles1lbt, supposedly the guys who were paid to record everything failed miserably.01:24
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GeneralAntilles1Audio is, apparently, useless.01:24
GeneralAntilles1So, no.01:24
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lbtand they won't release what they have?01:25
GeneralAntilles1What I know is all rumor01:26
GeneralAntilles1So who knows.01:26
lbtVDVsx: ping01:26
VDVsxlbt, pong01:26
lbtjust wondering if you knew ^^01:27
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lbtespecially the 'release what they have' bit01:27
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VDVsxlbt, I think there a couple of them already available01:27
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lbtthat's it?01:29
qwerty12_N810The Mer one appears to be the only good one there :\01:29
javispedrosigh. So no way I can hear the OpenGL ES talk.01:29
VDVsxlbt, sorry none of them are the official ones, lol01:30
* VDVsx checks again01:30
lbtHas anyone asked quim?01:30
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VDVsxlbt, well JamieBennett is the responsible for the videos, afaik01:31
javispedroso, when's the next summit?01:31
lbtJamieBennett... any news01:32
GeneralAntilles1javispedro, might try to get a mini-summit in Spring next year.01:32
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javispedroGeneralAntilles1: interesting :)01:33
* VDVsx saw some twitts about the videos, but doesn't recall here :P01:33
javispedrobtw, why the "1" suffix? do you have a clone army now?01:33
GeneralAntilles1In Canada, maybe.01:33
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, because Comcast sucks.01:34
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VDVsxworking in progress it seems ;)01:37
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lbthmmm, my wife does video editing01:37
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lbtJamieBennett: My wife may be able to help edit summit video - she's got time on her hands and a linux box01:39
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lbtping me01:39
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comhackI have a n810 and I was wondering how I can type a f-key like f-10? I remotely connected to a gnuscreen session on my desktop with my n810. Thanks02:15
comhackIs it possible?02:16
zerojaySome of the hardware keys are set to fkeys, actually.02:17
till-isn't there a modifier like for ctrl+ key?02:17
zerojayIf what I remember is correct.02:17
comhackno just the number keys and some symbols are on the keyboard02:18
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till-comhack do you use osso_xterm?02:20
till-maybe you can add a shortcut to the bar02:20
till-with the value of your f-key02:20
comhackok sounds like a plan02:21
till-i don't know which values are recognized, but maybe you can look it up02:21
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comhacklooking now thanks02:21
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zerojayPeople are somehow getting their hands on 1.2009.42-7. Something I missed?02:26
timeless_mbpi think there's an SSU going somewhere02:26
timeless_mbpnot sure if that was 42-702:26
ShadowJKpeople are somehow getting their hands on n900 :(02:27
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wazdwhah, most of the reviewers find Moto Droid "beautiful"02:30
wazdI wonder what exactly is beautiful in it02:31
ShadowJKit has the early 90s look :)02:31
wazdlate 80's :)02:31
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ShadowJKreminds me of startrek movies for some reason02:32
wazdI love that MOTOROLA label02:32
wazdon the front02:32
wazdalso that cheap white signs of touch buttons02:33
wazdlooks like chineese stuff02:33
zerojay <-- Never thought I would see these results.02:34
wazdzerojay: why? I used Nokia player all the time before I bought A2DP headphones02:35
wazdzerojay: It plays music, what else should it do :)02:35
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zerojaywazd: I personally have always loved just using Media Player, but it seemed like everyone was jumping on the Canola bandwagon... at least with OS2008.02:36
wazdzerojay: I use canola now cause it was the only player that I figured out to config for A2DP playback :)02:36
wazdzerojay: and it plays music too :D02:37
zerojayWon't be a problem on N900.02:37
zerojayThough I don't have a set of bluetooth headphones.02:38
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wazdzerojay: n900 music player looks a bit outdated though :)02:38
ShadowJKsort of split between mplayer and nokia. mplayer is ease of mind, it plays all formats. nokia has nicer, though very slow, interface02:39
zerojaywazd: How so?02:41
zerojayShadowJK: on OS2008, right?02:41
wazdzerojay: well, dunno, ask maemo UI team :D02:42
ShadowJKi don't think format support for music is much different on n900?02:42
zerojaywazd: Okay, I will.02:42
wazddunno, looks "unordered" or something02:43
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* timeless_mbp sighs02:44
wazdfor example that's what I've done for my FRUCT keynote
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zerojayThat looks terrible. :/02:45
wazdzerojay: oh :D02:45
zerojaylol.. sorry...02:45
zerojayI mean in terms of layout.02:46
zerojayNot so much what you did with it... but just... portrait mode in general.02:46
wazdzerojay: looks fine to me :) Large playlist, large buttons, large seek bar :)02:46
zerojayyeah... much prefer the look of the N900 music player now.02:48
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zerojayI kind of wonder what a white theme would look like on the N900.02:48
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uhsfAndroid 2.0 new GPS navigation UI looks quite neat.03:40
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wazduhsf: it can't cache maps03:48
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wazduhsf: so think again :)03:48
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zerojayX-Fade: Someone on TMO complaining that he can't promote his package because of midgard timeout errors.05:30
GeneralAntillesWe need servers.05:31
GeneralAntilleszerojay, and you're not paying enough tribute. :P05:33
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zerojayGeneralAntilles: What, do I gotta sacrifice someone to the god of X-Fade now? lol05:35
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zerojayGood thing we've got frank-wagner around.05:36
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bfrogI've been reading people complaining n900 has crashing issues and such?05:45
bfroghow does maemo today compare to android would you guys say? besides the number of apps, maemo seems a lot nicer of a platform?05:45
ShadowJKI like that it's closer to being a standard linux distro05:46
zerojayI don't know where these crashing issues are coming from because in the entire time I've had my N900, I was only able to crash it maybe twice in 1 1/2 months.05:47
GeneralAntillesbfrog, open governance, actually vaguely compatible with desktop Linux.05:48
GeneralAntillesIt's lightyears ahead where it counts.05:48
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bfrogwhats the real-world battery life on one?05:49
rsalvetithe open part of android is basically the kernel05:49
bfrogand is mms going to work on it eventually?05:49
bfrogyeah, thats what sucks about android05:49
rsalvetiand even with that is not so standard05:50
bfrogits like, lets take linux, and gimp it with java05:50
bfrogI imagine n900 has some closed source radio and graphics chip modules, and thats about it?05:50
rsalvetiprobably these are the only "required" closed source software05:50
rsalvetithe graphic chip is the worst one, because it's out of nokia control05:51
ShadowJKbattery stuff too05:51
rsalvetiyep, true05:51
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bfrogyeah, thats typical though... it'd either be what, TI with powervr or nvidia with tegra?05:51
bfrogwould it be difficult to upgrade the kernel then?05:52
bfrogit'd have to be like the nvidia driver right, the module is open, but does some funny business to use closed source code?05:52
bfrogalso, is n900 going to mms support?05:53
ShadowJKwho knows..05:53
rsalvetiprobably, but who knows when :-)05:54
ShadowJKmms might be obsolete first05:54
rsalvetihaha, true05:54
oilinkiare you able to login as root to N900? and then again, able to start calls, send sms from the command line?05:54
rsalvetiroot at n900 is trivial05:55
rsalvetinow the others I don't know yet, but probably yes05:55
rsalvetibecause nokia modems are not just at commands05:55
ShadowJKI doubt there are any commandline tools included for it :)05:55
rsalvetithey have theier own protocol05:55
rsalvetibut guess that ofono will soon support it05:55
ShadowJKn900 doesn't use ofono05:55
rsalvetii know, but ofono is including the support for the nokia modem format05:56
rsalvetiand you'll probably be able to use it soon, if you want05:56
rsalvetiofono will probably be included in harmattan05:56
oilinkiinitiating calls is a great advantage.. but also there is a risk of real viruses etc.05:56
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bfrogso no mms then?06:01
bfrogthats a bit disappointing06:01
rsalvetido you really use mms?06:01
bfroga lot06:02
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ShadowJKmms is painful, the amount of work involved is like writing a new gecko from scratch ;-)06:02
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oilinkimms was only hilarious when it was required to iPhone.. but in reality very very few people use it.06:03
bfrogexcept you know, how do I get pictures from my friends with the cheapo nokia phones then?06:03
ShadowJKthere's a bunch of people looking at it, but they're mostly distracted by mostly irrelevant minor details in order to avoid facing the huge WAP spec :)06:04
ShadowJKoh they can just put in your email address instead of your phone number... mms is nice like that06:04
ShadowJKit's the other direction that's tricky :)06:06
bfrogwhy would you need WAP for MMS06:06
ShadowJKbecause that's what it is06:06
GeneralAntillesoilinki, it's just Telepathy.06:07
GeneralAntillesbfrog, open kernel drivers shouldn't affect kernel upgradeability.06:07
ShadowJKan MMS is approximately an SMS with a link to some WAP page. Often it's accessed through a different APN than WAP, though, but the phone downloads and stores that wap page06:07
ShadowJKso for full MMS support you'd need to write a full WAP browser, plus more...06:07
bfrogisn't WAP just a subset of html?06:08
ShadowJKIt's "let's ignore tcp, http and html, and make something new that does the same"06:08
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ShadowJKThis might be why it never caught on. A html subset would've been sensible, but noo...06:09
bfrogdon't most of the carriers support it though, and it seems to be supported by symbian phones?06:10
ShadowJKsupport what?06:10
bfrogwell whatever, I guess thats not a huge loss... I've lived without mms seeing as I currently have a craptacular winmo phone06:12
bfrogI wish phones were more like computers, here's the hardware, put whatever software you want on it, I really wish it was like that06:12
ShadowJKthere's a guy in here who runs gentoo on his n810 :-)06:13
bfrognice :-)06:13
GeneralAntillesbfrog, that's where we're trying to move with Mer.06:13
GeneralAntillesand Maemo06:13
oilinkiShadowJK: I agree. is there something else on mms, than receiving sms, authenticating to the mms-server, fetching files, converting smil to html and presenting it on webpage? :)06:13
bfrogwhats Mer?06:13
ShadowJKcommunity edition06:14
ShadowJKof maemo06:14
bfrogoh, no not nokia driven then?06:14
bfrogdoes mer work on any real world devices at the moment?06:15
bfrogI guess nxxx's06:15
bfrogbut like, I couldn't just blow away my winmo phone :-P06:15
ShadowJKOh there was this guy who was putting it on a HTC of some sort..06:16
bfrogwell someone ported android to this phone06:16
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bfrogdoesn't work with the radio though06:16
bfrogand its ridiculously slow06:17
bfrogwould mer take over maemo on the n900 at some point?06:17
GeneralAntillesDepends on the user06:18
GeneralAntillesIt's about two things: long-term commoditizing the software and defragmenting mobile Linux06:18
ShadowJKWell yeah, the goal is for it to become an alternative, I believe06:18
GeneralAntillesand providing the open source parts of the Maemo stack for other devices.06:18
bfrogwhats not open source in maemo?06:19
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GeneralAntillesSome UI differentiation stuff, some connectivity stuff and some power stuff.06:19
GeneralAntillesIt's about 80/20 open/closed overall.06:19
rsalvetifew parts, but the development process of maemo is not so open06:19
ShadowJK the red bits are closed source06:19
rsalvetiyou can develop any application and add those to the repository06:19
rsalvetibut it's quite hard to change the core parts06:19
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rsalvetiso mer handles that in a quite easy way06:20
GeneralAntillesrsalveti, more open than Android.06:20
rsalvetian easy to hack distro06:20
rsalvetiGeneralAntilles: for sure :-)06:20
rsalvetiandroid sucks, in my point of view :-)06:20
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GeneralAntillesHopefully Nokia's going to improve on this point with Harmattan, too.06:20
rsalvetiyeah, I'm waiting for that06:20
GeneralAntillesIdeally Mer and Maemo will merge at some point in the future when Nokia starts to get things better.06:21
ShadowJKabout "does mer work on any real world devices"... Mer on SmartQ is probably better than their original firmware ;-)06:21
bfrogandroid just doesn't seem that interesting06:21
bfrogas a user or a developer06:21
GeneralAntillesDoes that Samsung SoC have a PowerVR?06:21
bfrogwebos is more interesting to me than android is06:21
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, it's not called by any names in the specs06:21
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, ah, but it is a GPU?06:22
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GeneralAntillesHopefully the Maemo 5 desktop will work OK on there.06:23
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, yes. Of the interesting stuff, there's hardware mpeg4 sp and h264 baseline decode, hw scaling, 3D GPU with some sort of shaders too06:23
bfrogwhats with pulseaudio pep being closed source06:23
GeneralAntillesI wish the SmartQ package wasn't so ugly.06:23
ShadowJKand specs are so leaked they're practically available to anyone..06:24
ShadowJKjust a google search away06:24
GeneralAntillesI'd love to have a SmartQ7 with similar core specs, 1024x600 and a better fit'n'finish06:24
ShadowJKI find my Q7 a bit inpractical :)06:24
GeneralAntillesI'd use something like that around the house for movies, recipes in the kitchen, etc.06:24
ShadowJKI'm not so sure anymore there's a use for something in between pocketable and netbook06:25
bfrogyeah, I'd either pocket or netbook it06:25
GeneralAntillesI almost always have one of my tablets with me.06:26
GeneralAntillesMy N900 pretty much only leaves my pocket when I'm at my desk.06:26
ShadowJKIt'd be useful bolted to dashboard in car, but I suspect it'd die first night out in the cold :)06:26
bfrogis n900 built pretty good? I remember my old nokias could be dropped like a hundred times and work fine06:27
GeneralAntillesI'd rather have a Cortex for a carputer.06:27
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GeneralAntillesbfrog, since it's a loaner I haven't done any drop-testing. ;)06:27
bfrogI dropped this htc phone 1 time, once, uno, and it has a huge dent and now feels like everything is loose06:27
GeneralAntillesWell, once about 5' onto carpet06:27
GeneralAntillesWhich it survived just fine06:27
GeneralAntillesIt feels very solid06:27
GeneralAntillesMuch less plasticy than previous tablets.06:27
bfrogany idea if tmobile usa will subsidize it in the near future?06:28
GeneralAntillesI dropped my N800 all of the time06:28
ShadowJKi've dropped my N800 a few times. bed -> floor when I fell asleep.  I probably rolled over it a few times too in my sleep too. still works06:28
GeneralAntillesWhich is hilarious because all of the pieces go flying everywhere when it impacts.06:28
GeneralAntillesFaceplate in one direction, buttons in another, battery cover, battery and sometimes the internal SD06:28
GeneralAntillesand the camera pops out06:29
rsalvetihahaha, true06:29
bfrogyeah, thats why those nokia phones survive man, its like legos or something, almost made to fall apart instead of just going crunch06:29
GeneralAntillesSo if the battery doesn't come out (which is most of the time) you get to see yourself staring worriedly at it as you bend down to pick it up.06:29
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GeneralAntillesI know I've slept on my N900 a few times.06:29
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ShadowJKA guy at work lost his phone. He found it 3 days later, submerged on the lake bottom at 1m depth. He fished it up, removed the battery and sim card and let it dry out for a couple of days. It worked perfectly :-)06:30
ShadowJKa nokia prism, iirc06:30
johnxGeneralAntilles, well, it's big for a phone, but it's not exactly mattress sized. are you like 3" tall?06:31
GeneralAntillesjohnx, closer to 3.7". I really wish we had a 4.1" screen. :(06:31
ShadowJKOh I saw a big phone the other day. Same guy as above. I forget its number, but it's the N-series one that folds like a camcorder06:31
ShadowJKyeah probably06:31
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GeneralAntillesHad that phone06:32
ShadowJKit has gigantic camera module and lens :)06:32
GeneralAntillesPretty decent06:32
GeneralAntillesS60 sucks, though06:32
GeneralAntillesNice camera06:32
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ShadowJKif you didn't see the keypad you'd think it's a video camcorder :)06:32
ShadowJKwhen it'd folded out into the camcorder shape06:32
johnxah. i remember that one06:33
ShadowJKI know it's outdated by now, the RAM would be aggravatingly inadequate, and the OS is a few generations crappier than S60 today, but I almost want to have one06:33
GeneralAntillesOptical zoom was really nice06:34
ShadowJKwith a lens 4 times the size of normal cameraphones..06:35
GeneralAntillesActually, I had an N93.06:35
bfrogwell cool, I might wait for n910 or whatever has maemo 6, might not06:42
bfrogmultitouch and a slightly slimmer form factor would have been nice06:42
GeneralAntillesbfrog, long wait.06:42
* johnx doesn't miss the multitouch...06:43
bfrogyeah, if I wait, I'll pick up a E series for a $150 or so06:43
GeneralAntillesMultitouch is usually overrated.06:43
GeneralAntillesOnly thing it's really useful for is replacing hardware buttons in games.06:43
johnxit's nice for zooming and all...and scrolling on laptop touchpads06:43
rsalvetiyeah, it only seems to be useful when playing games06:45
bfrogwell, the whole Qt aspect sort of hits home for me as well, I'm probably alone here in this group, but I actually like Qt quite a lot more than GTK, mostly due to documentation honestly06:45
rsalvetimost of the ui stuff you don't actually touch much06:45
bfrogwhy's that, more just draw to the screen type stuff with sdl?06:46
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I find pinch zooming to mostly be obnoxious.06:46
johnxit would be fine if we had zoom buttons instead of volume buttons...06:47
GeneralAntillesWell, we can fix that in most apps.06:48
clearymulti touch scroll is much more intuitive than the kinetic scrolling imo06:48
GeneralAntillesNokia just loves to adopt stupid things from S60, though.06:48
clearyor the location scroll on touchpads06:48
GeneralAntillescleary, er, multitouch scroll?06:48
johnxactually what's really cool that I really want is a touchscreen bigger than the LCD06:48
GeneralAntillesOn a touchscreen or trackpad?06:48
johnxthe n900 is perfectly set up for it06:48
GeneralAntillesjohnx, indeed.06:48
GeneralAntillesThe 5800 has a little off-screen touch hotkey06:48
GeneralAntilleswhich is great.06:48
clearyGeneralAntilles: the only place I've seen it is on touchpads06:49
bfrogpalm pre has that06:49
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GeneralAntillescleary, it sounds like it would suck on the N900.06:49
GeneralAntillesSince you'd have to take a hand off the device to do it.06:49
clearyGeneralAntilles: no06:49
GeneralAntillesUnless you can do it with two thumbs. . . .06:49
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clearytwo fingers on one screen06:49
bfrogwhy fennec btw, why not webkit?06:49
GeneralAntillesbfrog, hum?06:49
clearyGeneralAntilles: ie two fingers on one hand06:49
GeneralAntillesbfrog, MicroB is using Gecko.06:50
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clearykinetic scrolling is a bit hit and miss06:50
GeneralAntillescleary, why is that better than flicking one finger?06:50
GeneralAntillesIt works fine for me.06:50
clearymulti touch scroll is accurate06:50
GeneralAntillesand, again, I'd have to take one hand off the device to two-finger scroll.06:50
GeneralAntillesSo one hand would constantly be moving back and forth.06:50
bfrogwell why gecko then06:50
clearyGeneralAntilles: there's no reason you couldn't offer both options at once06:50
GeneralAntillesbfrog, mostly for historical reasons.06:51
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johnxbfrog, historically, better compatibility than webkit. but tear is out as well06:51
GeneralAntillesbfrog, WebKit was still pretty useless when Nokia picked an engine.06:51
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clearyGeneralAntilles: at least on this n97 I have to take a hand off anyway to get a finger in the active scroll area06:51
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bfrogstill basically khtml then06:51
GeneralAntillesBut Gecko provides a lot of stuff that WebKit doesn't.06:51
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GeneralAntillescleary, there's no active scroll area on Maemo 5.06:52
bfrogI hadn't heard that before, like what?06:52
GeneralAntillesThe active scroll area is the list.06:52
johnxbfrog, firefox extensions06:52
GeneralAntillesbfrog, bookmark management, certificate management, etc.06:52
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clearyGeneralAntilles: that's the area I'm talking about06:52
zgoldHi!  Is it possible to check if a service is already running via dbus?06:52
GeneralAntillescleary, my thumbs reach everywhere on the N900.06:53
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GeneralAntillescleary, so I can go between the keyboard and screen without effort.06:53
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GeneralAntillesbfrog, the difference between the engines is pretty slim these days.06:53
* cleary pulls the n97 out again06:53
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bfrogseems that way, same with the javascript interpretters06:54
johnxon hardware that has enough RAM to run gecko the difference doesn't seem very large at all06:54
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bfrogseems they're all becoming pretty much the same with a different name06:54
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clearyGeneralAntilles: fair enough - I can reach, I'm finding my thumbs aren't treated as "sensitively" as my index finger06:54
GeneralAntillesbfrog, competition has been helping browser development a lot.06:54
GeneralAntillescleary, I'm a looongtime thumb typist on the 770/N80006:54
bfrogthe IE bell is ringing06:54
GeneralAntillesSo I'm very used to making my thumbs work on resistive screens.06:55
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bfrogalright, well game time, then sleep time06:55
GeneralAntillesSo used to it that I reverse iPhone fingered a G2 at FLS. ;)06:55
bfrogthanks for the chit chat06:55
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clearyGeneralAntilles: that would make sense then :) I'm a long time tactile touch pad typer from the E70 onwards :)06:55
GeneralAntillesI found the capacitive screens on the Android phones really obnoxious.06:55
clearycan even touch type on my E7106:56
GeneralAntillesThe one on the iPhone is reasonable06:56
GeneralAntillesbut the ones on the HTCs are pretty bad.06:56
ShadowJKE70 has awesome keyboard06:57
ShadowJKbut the joystick stopped working on mine :(06:57
Analiasthe touch screen on the iphone is very nice - makes me wish capacitive touch screens were the norm06:57
clearyShadowJK: I have a pile of them here - lovely form factor06:57
GeneralAntillesAnalias, ew.06:57
clearyslow as shit though ;)06:57
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GeneralAntillesAnalias, I prefer precise screens, thanks.06:57
ShadowJKcleary, opera mini and putty are fast enough on it though :)06:57
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ShadowJKAnd it has enough pixels that 6px fontsize in putty gives you 80+ columns in landscape mode06:58
ShadowJKI find E75's low resolution screen annoying :(06:58
AnaliasAntilles:  I can be very precise on my iPhone, just isn't much of a reason to be due to the UI not requiring precise touchs06:58
ShadowJKI can deal with the keyboard even if it has no number row06:59
GeneralAntillesAnalias, how would you know?06:59
clearyShadowJK: I'm not a fan of the keyboard on the e7506:59
GeneralAntillesPositioning the i-beam on the iPhone is almost impossible06:59
clearyShadowJK: screen is ok - no real difference to the E7106:59
GeneralAntillesCapacitive simply CAN'T be as precise as resistive.06:59
GeneralAntillesThe technology just doesn't allow for it.06:59
ShadowJKThe precision isn't needed for included software07:00
GeneralAntillesIt is to position the text insertion point. ;)07:00
clearyShadowJK: the e75 keyboard os too smooth and flat, no feedback for the touch typist07:00
ShadowJKbut if you want to run regular desktop software without first spending a month remaking the UI, you probably want the ability to use a stylus :)07:00
ShadowJKcleary, yeah even the number keypad is flat07:00
ShadowJKit took me a week before I coule reliably press the home key without also invoking the calendar, email and calculator. And that wasn't even touchtyping yet07:01
AnaliasAntilles - what?  needing precise touches - the only thing I've noticed needing that kind of pixel level touches is games and all the games I have played on my iPhone have been pretty reasonable.  but I can see what you mean about needing precision if you are using a larger screen like on the N900 or even something with a 7" display07:01
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ShadowJKpart of the attraction for me with maemo and the maemo devices so far is how painless it's to get normal software to run on it.. with a capacitive screen that's probably no longer the case :)07:03
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GeneralAntilleskonttori, ping?07:23
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JamieBennettlbt: Quim is on the case I think. I didn't have time until now as we were in full on Karmic mode but I do have the files in a .mov format ready for slides adding.09:19
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* thux just got kicked out from ubuntu channel, first time kicked from anywhere :/09:28
GAN900They're crazy in there.09:28
johnxthux, what were you kicked for?09:28
KenYoungthux, How does one get kicked out of the Ubuntu channel?09:28
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GAN900I can kick you from here, too, if it'd make you feel better, though. :P09:29
KenYoungAnyone going to the New York N900 meetup today?09:29
ensithux: did you point out problems in Ubuntu?09:29
ensithey are very sensitive (zealots *cough*)09:29
johnxI was there for the ibex (or hardy? or gutsy?) release and it was pretty fun09:30
thuxno they just close testing channel09:30
thuxwonder why cause probably they gonna do testing in future too09:30
thuxor maybe karmic is they last distribution09:31
GAN900Why does rtcomm lose its ability to connect to haze accounts after a while. . . .09:33
KenYoungCan one write maemo applications using standard gtk+ calls for the GUI, or must one use some maemo-specific libraries?09:34
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johnxKenYoung, you can use plain gtk if you want, but best results are had with a couple tweaks09:36
johnxthere's a little guide on porting gtk+ apps to maemo/hildon09:36
johnxI can dig up the link if you want09:36
KenYoungjohnx, Yes, thanks - I'd like to read it.09:37
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MrKeunerHi everybody, slightly offtopic but my HTC dream phone got broken, I need a new phone. Do I have to wait long for N900?09:47
KenYoungMrKeuner, I think it is supposed to become available around Nov. 14th.09:47
MrKeunerThat i can wait, thanks09:48
johnxcouple weeks? november seems to be the date people are talking about, but there are some places not having stock til december09:48
johnxif you're a linux fan, it's worth the wait for sure09:48
MrKeunerI am GNU fan, but I need a phone too. so I'll se what i can do. May be i'll get a very cheap phone for some time09:48
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johnxKenYoung, <- down at the "graphical UI tutorial" section is the stuff probably most interesting to you09:49
KenYoungjohnx, Thanks very much!09:50
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johnxsure. :) do you have a project your want to port?09:54
KenYoungjohnx, I wrote an application called "orrery" for the Openmoko platform which I want to port.09:55
KenYoung'Cuz Openmoko is dead...09:55
johnxhow was the battery life on your phone?09:56
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johnxfreerunner or neo1973. I keep thinking about picking one up second hand to play with...09:56
KenYoungjohnx, You mean my Openmoko phone?09:56
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KenYoungjohnx, Ive got one neo1973 and two Freerunners...09:57
KenYoungjohnx, I get just over one day of use out of my Freerunner before having to recharge.   Maybe 1.5 days.09:57
johnxoh, that's not nearly as bad as I was led to believe09:58
johnxsimilar for the n90009:58
johnxI could certainly stretch it with less backlight, stay logged out of IM, check for mail less often09:58
johnx(use the fm transmitter less O_o; )09:59
KenYoungThe Freerunner has several hardware faults, most of which cna be fixed by adding capacitors.   One fault is called the 1024 fault, which I have not fixed yet.   Fixing that fault greatly extends the time the phone can be in the suspend state without bleeding the battery dry.09:59
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johnxBTW, that's a pretty cool application, especially since the n900 doesn't have a compass09:59
KenYoungjohnx, The Freerunner software is still improving, significantly.   THe battery life is much better now than it was, say, one year ago.10:00
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KenYoungjohnx, Thanks!10:00
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johnxmornin' Stskeeps10:01
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johnxdid you still have a freerunner Stskeeps ?10:01
KenYoungjohnx, I would say that the Freerunner is now no more frustrating to use than a Treo.10:01
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jaemgood evening10:02
Stskeepsjohnx, yeah, but not in use10:03
murraycWhere should I report maemo autobuilder bugs?10:03
murraycAh, got it. Website.10:03
jaemhmm... does anyone have any experience with Matlab's RTW?10:04
jaemthis IS on topic, believe it or not10:04
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jaem...working on a project, and one of my team members is trying to use Matlab's "stand-alone C generation" capabilities10:10
jaemhowever, it depends on a whole whack of files from Matlab, and hardcodes the Makefiles for the platform it's generated on10:11
jaemtheir knowledgebase page on compiling on UNIX is quite scary10:11
SargunNokia N900!!! Now, Now, now.10:12
timeless_mbpSargun: complaints about deliveries should be expressed to Nokia Care10:13
Sargunthey aren't shipping for another month10:13
johnxtimeless, what about complaints about Nokia care?10:13
Sargunthere soft launch date was wednesday10:14
timeless_mbpi'll take those10:14
timeless_mbpi finally got a contact who's paying attention to me10:14
jaemtimeless_mbp, \o/10:14
timeless_mbpnokia care messed up while dealing w/ us, and we have records.10:14
Sargunfor what?10:14
timeless_mbpso yes, if you have problems w/ care, please record as much info as you can and then contact me10:14
murraycjaem: And you want to run that code on maemo?10:15
jaemmurrayc: heh... that WAS the intent10:15
timeless_mbpi'll arrange to have them delivered to someone who is now holding Care on a very short leash10:15
jaemit's looking less fun now10:15
timeless_mbpSargun: ?10:15
murraycjaem: If the code depends on matlab libraries (and headers) then you'd need those to be ported to maemo. And I guess they are proprietary, so good luck asking them.10:15
jaemmurrayc: licensing may be an issue, however, it looks like it's source which gets compiled in10:15
jaemI'm not sure, because I don't have Matlab on my machine10:16
tekojomorning all!10:16
murraycjaem: So what's the problem?10:16
jaemmurrayc: well...10:16
* timeless_mbp sighs10:16
* timeless_mbp kicks gmail10:16
timeless_mbpi can read 20 messages at a time from the start of my queue, or 10 at a time from the end10:16
jaemthe whole issue is that one of our two team members who is working on the algorithm for our project is not comfortable enough in C to do it from scratch easily10:17
jaemand then we run the risk of having to debug the math while trying to get this done on a short deadline10:17
murraycjaem: I mean, what's the problem with building it on maemo?10:17
jaemso the original idea was to code the algorithm in Matlab, and wrap the generated C in our own code10:17
jaemright now, the problem is that the files I need to compile it are on a machine located in a locked lab across campus, which I don't have access to :P10:18
murraycCan't help you with that.10:18
jaemin general, the problem is that the Matlab people don't know Maemo, and I don't know Matlab10:18
jaemand we're trying to figure out if this is viable in short order10:18
murraycjaem: They give you the files. You try to add them to your C project.10:19
jaemmurrayc: yes10:19
jaemI'll give it a shot10:19
jaemone thing, though...10:19
jaemthe code generation dialog has options to specify the target architecture, from quite an extensive list10:19
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murraycjaem: So you might need two sets of code, for X86 and ARM. The code might contain assembler, or even just some platform-specific optimization in the C code.10:20
jaemsince I haven't had a chance to look over all the code, I'm not entirely sure why... I mean, I know that things like int size will be different across architectures, but it gets quite specific10:20
jaemjust going to ask that10:20
murraycHowever, I suspect that it really does depend on some matlab library, and so that option is all about linking to the correct one for the platform.10:21
murraycBut you don't know and you can't possibly make a decision until you've seen the genereatd code.10:21
jaemmurrayc: essentially, yes10:22
jaemsorry to draw this out... I was hoping someone might have direct experience, and save me some bother :P10:23
jaemhowever, this was helpful too10:23
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jaemanother question (different topic)10:30
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jaemjust to clarify, if I use Maemo's Bluetooth Manager to pair with a device (SPP, in this case), that only sets up the actual Bluetooth link, and I still have to connect to whichever services I want in my own program, right?10:33
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cosmo_jaem: i think that's correct unless your own program can handle the pairing10:38
jaemcosmo_: is it possible for a program to initiate discovery/pairing through the Maemo BT Manager GUI?  Easily, I mean10:39
jaemI would presume that's what BlueMaemo does, but I haven't looked into10:39
jaemI'm new to BT programming - I looked into it a while back, but was turned off by Bluez's horrible lack of good docs (at the time), and the fact that my BT peripheral was probably faulty10:40
qwerty12_N900jaem: On the N800 and N810 at least, trying to connect to an unpaired device brought up the pairing dialog box automatically10:40
qwerty12_N900(PITA for Carwhisperer, but there you go...)10:41
lbtpairing is usually handled internally by the libs which callout to a gui helper AFAIK10:41
jaemlbt, qwerty12_N900, thanks - that's what I was hoping for10:41
lbtthat's desktop...10:41
lbtprobably the same approach here though10:42
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* jaem keeps forgetting that Ubuntu doesn't use pacman10:45
jaemsilly Ubuntu10:45
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ensiis /apps/maemo/app-name/ the place where to stick application specific settings?10:51
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qwerty12_N900GConf? /apps/app-name/ is also used by some apps10:53
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timeless_mbpdid you build that cpa?10:58
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qwerty12_N900No. I'll do it now10:58
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timeless_mbpwoohoo, my package is optified11:12
timeless_mbphrm, how do i find out what time zone i'm in? :)11:15
timeless_mbphrm, when did dst happen? :)11:16
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: ok, and where's my .so? :)11:26
timeless_mbp(for enus!)11:26
inztimeless, DST happened last week sun at 04:0011:27
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timeless_mbppretend i can't use calendars, can you give me a month+day ? :)11:28
qwerty12_N900timeless: (This being the *spits* enus version)11:28
inztimeless, Oct 2511:28
timeless_mbpi'll take an engb version too :)11:28
inztimeless, it's always the last sunday of october11:28
inzi.e. if (weekday == W_SUN && day >= 25 && day <= 31 && month == 10) { curse("Damned you, DST!"); }11:30
qwerty12_N900Now leave me alone! :)11:30
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: thanks :)11:31
inztimeless, and date +%z or date +%Z tells you the tz11:31
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cosmo_are libqt4 dependencies broken in fremantle? for example -network depends on -webkit which doesn't depend on -phonon, although -phonon libs are required11:36
cosmo_= linker errors when compiling stuff agains -network11:36
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X-Fadecosmo_: Using which version?11:37
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X-Fadewtf, who gave me ops again ;)11:37
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cosmo_from extras repo i think11:37
X-Fadecosmo_: If everything went well, there should not be any qt4 in extras anymore.11:37
X-Fadecosmo_: I removed that yesterday.11:37
cosmo_are they in extras-devel now?11:38
X-Fadecosmo_: no11:38
X-Fadecosmo_: SDK11:38
cosmo_those are the repos i added, according to instructions11:39
X-Fadecosmo_: and nokia-applications for device.11:39
cosmo_so.. the wiki is wrong and no additional repos are needed anymore?11:40
X-Fadecosmo_: qt4 is not officially supported in Maemo 5.11:40
X-Fadecosmo_: I guess that the wiki needs to be updated.11:41
X-Fadegnuton: ping?11:41
cosmo_well, it's half-officially supported anyway and seems to work pretty well apart from the broken dependencies11:41
X-Fadecosmo_: Because it is officially supported now, I removed the older versions from extras*.11:42
X-Fadecosmo_: But there should not be anything lingering there anymore.11:42
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X-Fadecosmo_: So if you run into libs in extras, please let me know ;)11:43
cosmo_it's 4.5.3~git20090723 i've got11:43
X-FadeThat is the official version11:43
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cosmo_probably it's from the official repo, i was just misled by the wiki11:43
timeless_mbpX-Fade: how long should it take to thumb up a package in -testing?11:43
X-Fadecosmo_: Version is higher than what was in extras, so it got pulled in automatically probably.11:44
cosmo_but anyway.. should i add phonon as a dependency for my app or will the package dependencies be changed?11:44
cosmo_i'm just using -network11:44
X-Fadecosmo_: That I can't answer ;)11:44
X-Fadecosmo_: -> gnuton11:44
X-FadeI blame him for everything :D11:45
cosmo_gnuton: ?11:45
X-Fadecosmo_: he maintains the libs.11:45
cosmo_and also it seems little weird that -network depends on -webkit.. i'd think it would be the other way round11:45
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X-Fadecosmo_: maybe through -help?11:46
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: so i don't need to implement save_state?11:46
qwerty12_N900I've survived w/out it, but I guess it can't do any harm to have save_state doing nothing11:47
timeless_mbpif you survived, i'm quite happy leaving it out11:47
jaemdoes anyone know where is hosted?11:49
timeless_mbpX-Fade: my package rate still didn't go :(11:49
timeless_mbpjaem: on a 770 :)11:49
qwerty12_N900timeless: Problem solved :p11:49
jaemtimeless_mbp, ah, that would explain it ;)11:49
jaemI'm near Vancouver, and downloading the SDK is just painful11:49
timeless_mbpi don't think it matters where you are11:49
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jaemtimeless_mbp, well, not much11:49
jaemcurrently I'm proxying apt through a server in the US, which has a 35Mbps symmetrical connection11:50
jaemit makes it about twice as fast11:50
jaemand still not much above 450kB/s, peak11:50
X-Fadejaem: near it seems.11:50
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Hmm slowness.11:51
jaemX-Fade, timeless_mbp: it could also be my ISP11:51
jaemthey're full of Fail11:51
X-Fadejaem: I don't think scratchbox content is served through akamai.11:51
jaemX-Fade: heh... that would be nice, though :P11:52
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cosmo_btw what's the correct way to test for maemo environment in qt's project file?11:52
cosmo_there's Q_WS_HILDON11:52
cosmo_for code11:52
qwerty12_N900Oh, good, one can get the IMEI manually:11:52
qwerty12_N900dbus-send --system --print-reply --type=method_call /com/nokia/phone/SIM/security Phone.Sim.Security.get_imei11:52
X-Fadeqwerty12_N900: Did some dbus tracing? :)11:54
cosmo_X-Fade: this also has outdated information
qwerty12_N900X-Fade: Looked at the About product applet...11:54
X-Fadeqwerty12_N900: Makes sese.11:55
X-Fadecosmo_: gnuton works for forum nokia, so I blame him again ;)11:55
qwerty12_N900Making a jack-of-all-trades desktop applet, so...11:55
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X-Fadecosmo_: No sign of -webkit dependency there?11:56
cosmo_hmm, weird.. i think i had to install it yesterday for my app. maybe it came through some other dependency11:57
cosmo_but the missing phonon dependency causes more trouble11:58
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jaemwoo! it works!12:08
* jaem congratulates himself for getting something accomplished after about 4 hours12:08
lbtcosmo_: #qt-maemo12:09
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wazdheya all12:11
Stskeepslo wazd12:12
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jaemhiya, wazd12:13
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RST38hmoo wazd12:15
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wazdlet it snow, gentlemen :)12:19
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achipaI just hope the ISP upgrade includes the builders as well...12:22
* RST38h also welcomes today's traffic apocalypse12:22
achipaI'm nearing 3h build times :)12:22
RST38hyou mean
pupnikwhat apocalypse?12:23
pupnikgood day12:23
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RST38hpupnik: well, it started snowing today12:24
jaemRST38h: ?12:25
achipaRST38h: no snow but 100km/h winds here this morning :)12:25
RST38hpupnik: if it gets to a full scale snowstorm by this evening, things are gonna get funny12:25
pupnikoh i thought t.m.o traffic12:26
pupnikdon't you canadians know how to drive on snow?12:26
jaempupnik: no12:27
jaemwe get just enough to be a problem, and not enough for people to learn how to deal with it12:27 least, in BC12:27
pupnikfirst snow of the year is always a bit of a biter though - people haven't switched modes12:27
jaemI can't speak for elsewhere12:27
pupnikright totally different climate12:27
* pupnik is from the icy tundra of MN12:27
jaemof course, my university is up on a hill/small mountain, and we usually get one or two large dumps of it, right after the 8 month rainy season ends :P12:28
pupnikwhat doesn't get frozen off, callouses12:28
jaemand then the buses shut down12:28
jaemlast year, they had to put out blankets in the gym for people that got stuck12:28
pupniknice walkin eh12:28
RST38h...and breaks off eventually? =)12:28
* lbt likes the UK - 3-6" snow and we stay at home12:28
jaempupnik: there's been some talk about building a gondola, but that's a bit crazy12:28
jaemI'd go for a zip-line12:29
jaemor a slide :D12:29
SpeedEvilI have plans for a hoverboard.12:29
SpeedEvilOnly 60Kg, and $30000.12:29
pupnikmaybe the bus could take a route down a less steep incline12:30
RST38hjaem: Annex California and settle there12:30
jaemRST38h: wouldn't that involve annexing Washington and Oregon first?12:30
jaemthat sounds like too much work12:30
RST38hjaem: Not if you do it by sea12:30
jaemRST38h: okay, I'll send out the fleet ;)12:31
jaemgah - *take*, you stupid config, *take*!12:32
* jaem grumbles at his BlueSMIRF12:32
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X-Fadeachipa: yes, those will get a lot more power.12:33
achipawoo ! (Y)12:33
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pupniki think maemo summit was half my calorie intake for october12:36
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* jaem reads the SDK EULA... 12:37
jaemNokia can send me software updates by e-mail?12:37
* jaem boggles12:37
qwerty12_N900You read EULAs?12:38
jaemqwerty12_N900: yeah, the odd time I have to agree to one12:38
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jaemLinux is good that way12:39
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jaemit doesn't bug me if it's something normal, like GPL12:39
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jaemI do like that clause, though12:39
qwerty12_N900I could install something with the EULA saying that my soul is now the property of the company who made that software I'm installing and I'd be none the wiser12:40
jaemI think MS has one like that12:40
jaemor is that Apple?12:40
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SpeedEvilThere is small text in off-white at the bottom of the main search page that means they own 99% of people onlines souls.12:41
jaemno, they don't own your soul12:41
jaemthey just datamine it and then serve up ads12:41
* jaem wonders how exactly one would write a soul-datamining algorithm12:42
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jaemoh wow... this is useful:  (datasheet command set spec) "All set commands do not take effect until"... I guess they left out something.  Too bad that something is the entire point of the sentence12:45
JaffaMorning, all12:46
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auenfmicrob needs mng and jng support?12:51
timeless_mbpwhy does it need them?12:51
* SpeedEvil holds up a kitten.12:53
* SpeedEvil exclaims 'Or the kitty dies!'12:53
auenfhmm, same timeless that i cant beat in idletail?12:54
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timeless_mbpauenf: yep13:14
auenfok, so when i beat you, microb needs mng and jng :P13:15
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jaemVDVsx: hi13:23
VDVsxjaem, hey13:23
jaemare we going to get to see the new BlueMaemo that wazd was posting about ages ago any time soon?13:24
VDVsxjaem, no, we are slow as hell, will be released at the same time as duke nuken forever :P13:25
wazdjaem: no, it's fake :D13:26
jaemVDVsx, wazd: heh13:26
jaemfair enough13:26
jaemit does look pretty shiny, though13:26
zaheermVDVsx, how was your stay in SFO and flight back?13:28
VDVsxzaheerm, was fine, I got Internet for $7, so the time passed fast ;)13:29
* petur waves at VDVsx13:29
VDVsxflight was loooong13:29
zaheermVDVsx, aah what wifi network was that?13:29
VDVsxzaheerm, t-mobile13:29
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zaheermyou got on in the end :)13:30
VDVsxzaheerm, in Frankfurt 30 min for 8 €, ouch13:30
VDVsxzaheerm, yes, it only works in some places, it seems13:30
zaheermi look forward to tomorrow13:31
zaheermwhen i can sleep a little :)13:31
VDVsxzaheerm, eheheh13:31
jaem...speaking of...13:32
jaemnight all13:32
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lcukhey VDVsx13:32
lcuki saw your photostream from the google event and stuff, you have a good time?13:33
VDVsxlcuk, yup was fun ;)13:33
lcukyeah - you know the event/talk grid thing13:34
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lcukwhere you fill out what you want and stick it on the schedule13:34
andre__Developers stating "This bug could have been reported a bit earlier" should be slapped for a few days13:34
zaheermyah it was an unconference13:34
lcuki went to london barcamp last week13:34
lcukand saw similar13:34
lcukits so similar in principle to what liqbase can do, im tempted to make something similar for maemo at some point13:35
zaheermlcuk, yah i missed that to go to GSoC summit, how was the barcamp?13:35
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VDVsxzaheerm, you've to send me the last photo that you took in the parking lot (gstreamer + maemo :P)13:35
lcuki didnt attend gsoc - we had some plans which couldnt be shifted13:35
lcukbarcamp was amazing!13:36
zaheermVDVsx, wait let me flickr it :)13:36
lcuktheres one in manchester next week too i think13:36
zaheermVDVsx, have you put the one on your camera up?13:36
VDVsxzaheerm, nop, we didn't used my camera13:38
lcukVDVsx, wouldnt it be good if all these photos could have been collaboratively shared before you left the event13:40
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lcukto have everyones voice collected as it happened ;)13:40
zaheermlcuk, :)13:40
VDVsxlcuk, hehe13:40
VDVsxlcuk, and auto-tagging ;)13:40
lcukzaheerm, it ws something we discussed in the cocreation session before the summit13:40
lcukyeah VDVsx13:41
lcukthe central source could supply those tags :)13:41
lcukthen as everyone does it they get applied13:41
lcukhey - also, if theres room in a tweet the twitter client could also auto add #hash tags13:41
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VDVsxzaheerm, I'm setting my camera in both photos, lol13:50
VDVsxmaybe stefan's photos are better ;)13:51
zaheermVDVsx, surprising because you didn't even use it then, lol13:51
zaheermyah i am waiting for stefan's13:51
VDVsxzaheerm, true lol13:51
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VDVsxhumm, should maemo-optify only leave files <2k under /usr ?14:06
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* lcuk waves @ qwerty12_N900 mornin14:12
qwerty12_N900Hiya, lcuk, how are you?14:12
ifreqlcuk: continue on waving.. keep him distracted so i can get the n90014:12
* qwerty12_N900 turns, slowly, and looks behind him14:12
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lcukifreq, thats ok, im sure its actually welded to him14:13
ifreq:P yeh prob14:14
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* lcuk_n900 joins da club :P14:14
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ifreqpff!! :P14:15
Zmanui want to buy a n900, but i want to buy it as developper14:16
Zmanuhow may i do ?14:16
GeneralAntillesFill in "Developer" in the company field on the Nokia web store?14:16
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qwerty12_N900Although, MAFW makes me want to throw it out of the window14:16
lcukspeak to samppa14:16
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lcukhe has interfaced with mafw14:17
qwerty12_N900No wonder the lyrics widget sucks14:17
tbfZmanu: with discount? get a time machine, and get enough karma on before nokia did the dev. discount stats14:17
_berto_if we port this to the n900 it will be the killer app
Zmanutbf: so too late14:17
qwerty12_N900Half the time, it wont even return the name of the current track14:17
tbfZmanu: at least for the first round i guess.14:17
Zmanutbf: how can i be on the second round14:18
tbfZmanu: but i am relatively uneducated regarding the developer discount program14:18
lcuk_berto_, only if we get portrait mode and one handed usage working perfectly :D14:18
tbfZmanu: well, what i am doing now is working on my karma14:18
GeneralAntillesZmanu, you'll have to talk to Forum nokia.14:18
_berto_lcuk: :D :D :D14:18
tbfZmanu: release packages, bug reports, forum posts, blog posts... hmm. or like GeneralAntilles said14:19
Zmanuok, thanks, i gonna do that14:19
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tbfqwerty12_N900: is that a joke? :-D14:20
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qwerty12_N900tbf: No. :( Simple program popping up a banner showing the name of the current track and it only pops up on certain tracks. These tracks are also the ones the TuneWiki widget (also using MAFW) has problems with14:22
tbfqwerty12_N900: i was refering to those pr0n downloaders14:23
cosmo_is .service file needed anymore in fremantle? it's not mentioned anymore in docs14:23
qwerty12_N900No, it's real :p14:23
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Jaffacosmo_: Service file is still needed for DBus registration and DBus starting14:31
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cosmo_Jaffa: but not required like in older maemos?14:32
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Jaffacosmo_: It was never required if you didn't use DBus (e.g. via OSSO Context)14:33
Jaffacosmo_: AFAIK, the rules haven't changed14:33
lcukx41hey jaffa14:33
GAN900That's nice, More... is overlaid on the main part of the applications menu.14:34
cosmo_ok, i thought it was always required14:34
X-FadeGAN900: I have a screenshot of when that happened to me ;)14:34
X-FadeGAN900: Seems fixed in later firmware.14:35
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pupnikThe internet regulator has approved plans to allow non-Latin-script web addresses   hello phishing...14:43
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_berto_pupnik: I can imagine baи, or worse, barсlays.com14:47
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pupniki guess my client could reject non-latin dns lookups14:48
lcukx41for normal web users, perhaps back coloring the unicode letters could help14:48
VDVsxpupnik, what about ~ and ç ? :P14:48
lcukx41it might still say barclays14:48
lcukx41but the unicode letter might be inverted14:48
lcukx41or somethin14:48
JaffaMmm, homoglyphs for the win.14:49
JaffaGah, I'm lost in a twisty-turny maze of git madness14:49
pupniknice with the barclays14:49
derfpupnik: Wһаtеⅴеr ԁо уοu ⅿеаn? Тһаt ѡοuⅼⅾ nеνеr һарреn.14:50
VDVsxwazd, can you leave your country in Dec: :P14:50
pupnikb   a   r 321 201   l   a   y   s14:50
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pupnikif that turns trendy, bye urxvt14:51
qwerty12_N900Tablets are safe: All I can see mostly are squares14:51
wazdVDVsx: yeah, I hope14:52
RST38hNokia has signed on with AT&T to launch some hot new smartphone in the not too distant future14:52
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derfI prefer my phones at a comfortable temperature.14:52
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StskeepsXPphone ftw14:53
SpeedEvilI want a hot phone.14:53
SpeedEvilIt's cold outside.14:53
VDVsxVistaphone ftw14:54
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: should this .so work on mer?14:55
timeless_mbpi'm trying it, but...14:55 on what arch/os? :P14:56
timeless_mbpoh, um14:56
timeless_mbpprobably the wrong one!14:56
timeless_mbpyou mean .so aren't portable? :)14:56
Stskeepslinux isnt mac14:56
timeless_mbpwell, i'm trying to run a linux-arm .so on linux-x8614:57
Stskeepswhat i am curious about is if mer on n900 can run fremantle apps14:57
timeless_mbpthey're both linux, right? :)14:57
timeless_mbpso um...14:57
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timeless_mbphow do i copy a different .so based on my platform?14:57
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ensianyone happen to know whats the deal with Qt progress bar on fremantle.14:57
Stskeepscompile it?14:58
ensiit doesnt actually render the progress bar (just the format text)14:58
timeless_mbpwell, i didn't manage to get the build env working14:58
timeless_mbpand i don't want to cross compile anyway14:58
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ensi(or then its all rendered with background color so it doesnt's show up)14:58
timeless_mbpi just mean, suppose i have a binary and foo-arm.so14:58
qwerty12_N900timeless: I did build it for ARM, considering that your package is for the N900, y'know...14:58
timeless_mbpand i want my deb to when built select the right one14:58
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: yeah, well... i obviously forgot about that part :)14:59
fiferboyensi: What version of the Qt libs are you using?15:00
fiferboyensi: And are you testing on a device or within scratchbox?15:00
lcukx41ccooke_, you awake?15:00
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ensififerboy: on device15:00
fiferboyensi: The current Qt libs on the device are not quite final in regards to fremantle theming15:01
fiferboyThere is a new version being worked on that is much, much better15:01
ensiqt 4.5.315:01
ensibasically the progress bar is all black15:01
ensiwhich is also the background color15:01
ensififerboy: will be this on release?15:02
zaheermcan you use the cool widgets that other fremantle apps use, in qt for fremantle?15:02
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fiferboyensi: The community port should be coming out in a few days, maybe a week15:03
fiferboyensi: An officially supported version of 4.6 is coming Q1 201015:03
ensififerboy: do you know this problem that im having?  Is there a work around15:03
fiferboyensi: I am just checking if the newest version still has the issue15:03
ensiim trying with text disabled15:04
fiferboyensi: Yes, there is still a problem.  The progress bar displays the same colour as the background15:04
ensimaybe the text rendeering is messing up15:04
ensiso no work around? :/15:05
fiferboyNo, it looks like a theming bug15:05
fiferboyWell, you could work around it with stylesheets15:05
ensii presume you mean the Qt CSS style sheets15:06
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ensiall rite, but theres a fix coming out for this?15:07
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fiferboyOr you could try setting style properties15:07
fiferboyOr you could override the paint method15:07
ensiwhatever is easiest :)15:07
fiferboyI will bring it up to the guy doing the community port theming work15:07
fiferboypaint method would be the most work.  Stylesheets are probably easiest15:08
ensiyeah thats what im figuring15:08
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ensiok thanks!15:09
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VDVsxzaheerm, btw, we've to introduce Stefan to lardman|gone, he's the one working in the barcode stuff, he had some issues with gstreamer, dunno if he already solve them15:14
gnutonX-Fade: pong15:15
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loufoquewhen is the N900 supposed to be released?15:16
loufoqueI thought it was today15:16
RST38hloufoque: The day before the Prophet comes15:17
RST38hSo that when he comes, everyone will be busy playing with their N900s15:17
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VDVsxsame day as duke nuken forever :P15:17
loufoquethat was a serious question.15:17
VDVsxand pandora15:18
SpeedEvilloufoque: There have been various dateds in november given.15:18
VDVsxloufoque, last I heard -> Nov 1415:18
SpeedEvilloufoque: no specific date has been announced consistently by nokia.15:18
loufoqueSpeedEvil: aren't you an openmoko guy?15:18
SpeedEvilloufoque: meh15:18
qwerty12_N900He's joining the Dark Side15:19
SpeedEvilloufoque: OpenMoko had the potential to be great. They could have released a functional, but a bit clunky phone running X in christmas 2007.15:19
SpeedEvilloufoque: If they'd done that - rather than pushing on with software changes and hardware changes and not fixing major kernel bugs - then things could have turned out very differently.15:20
SpeedEvil(phone, basic PIM, SMS, not many other apps, but ssh/linux/...)15:20
loufoqueI know that15:20
loufoquewhy do you think I don't have a freerunner?15:21
SpeedEvilThey wanted it shiny, and really needed perhaps another order of magnitude of funding.15:21
* VDVsx has one too ;)15:21
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SpeedEvil(to do it the way they were doing it, I contend it could have been done with their existing funding and better decisions)15:21
tepheikkHi all! Does N810 support simple opengl with python? I tried to install pyside-qt4-opengl but there are broken dependencies15:22
lcukx41the device does not support opengl15:22
lcukx41it supports opengles15:22
VDVsxlcukx41, the n810 ?15:23
lcukx41lol sorry15:23
tepheikklcukx41: Ok. But those packages that I see in repository have some broken dependencies.15:23
lcukx41dont think about the 810 supporting any ogl lol15:23
VDVsxlcukx41, well, THE DRIVERS :P15:23
lcukx41phantom drivers are not the same15:24
* lcukx41 still wants his flying car15:24
VDVsxtepheikk, right now you can't use ogl in the n81015:24
SpeedEvillcukx41: I have a plan for a hoverboard.15:24
tepheikkOk, so then I'll just wait that I get to buy my N900 :)15:24
SpeedEvillcukx41: only $30000.15:25
lcukx41i actually saw a great flying car recently15:25
lcukx41dune buggy with a parasail :D15:25
VDVsxtepheikk, the chip is there, but the drivers are missing :P15:25
lcukx41innovative and cool idea15:25
lcukx41SpeedEvil, sounds reasonable15:25
VDVsxlcukx41, what about your flying phone booth ?15:26
lcukx41dude!   *air guitar*15:27
SpeedEvillcukx41: Well - actually - it's a highly illegal hoverboard/helicopter really :) 60cm*60cm, and about 60Kg, and 60KW of motors :)15:27
loufoqueanyone in the UK has a recommendation of what the best mobile plan for the N900 would be?15:27
SpeedEvilloufoque: well...15:28
SpeedEvilloufoque: I'm planning on a zero pounds a month one. (after rebate)15:28
loufoquethe sim zero thing from 3?15:28
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SpeedEvilGo to how I use my phone, enter some minutes. Pick a nokia 1280 or similar low-end phone.15:29
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SpeedEvilThey then offer cashback if you stick to the terms and conditions - you will need to post several things to them over the course of the year, and ...15:30
SpeedEvilIt's awkward, but you can end up with a 12 month contract, and a crap phone free.15:30
SpeedEvilwith 1G/mo15:30
SpeedEvilt-mobile web and walk15:30
SpeedEvilyou need to DD 30-35 quid/month - but it gets paid back over the year. These are incentives offered by the networks to phone shops to get new customers.15:31
loufoqueit's only available for T Mobile?15:31
SpeedEvilCombined with the fact that some people will screw up and forget to send stuff in by the deadlines, and not qualify for the cashback15:31
SpeedEvilThat one only seemed to offer me t-mobile contracts. I'm unsure if altering the parameters would change this.15:32
fiferboyHeh, my "products" karma shot up last night!15:34
lbthows that?15:35
fiferboylbt: me?15:35
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fiferboyGot two apps promoted to fremantle extras15:35
RST38hfiferboy: yep15:35
lbtloufoque: I use ASDA payg15:36
* RST38h strokes his karma15:36
lcukx41put it away15:36
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loufoquelbt: isn't that a supermarket?15:37
qwerty12_N900loufoque: Tesco also have a network...15:37
wazdmy produt carma sucks for obvious reasons :D15:37
lbtalso a low usage plan15:38
achipaapropos dbus, any pymaemo guys present ?15:38
lbtusing vodaphone15:38
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loufoquethat's 20p per MB, doesn't that mean 200£ for 1 GB?15:38
lbtwell, if you don't have wifi at home it sucks15:39
VDVsxwazd, ah, I'll help on that :P15:39
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loufoqueI'm wondering whether a regular phone plan with 3G internet or a mobile broadband plan is more adapted to a device such as the N90015:40
wazdVDVsx: nobody's signing me as a maintainer, so I have only 35 for Titan :D15:40
lbtloufoque: mobile bb often can't make calls15:41
VDVsxVDVsx, well, I'll sign you as a author, you don't get karma as maintainer, afaik15:41
SpeedEvilloufoque: mobile broadband usually can't do calls or SMSs15:41
SpeedEvilloufoque: it looks like t-mobile are offering the best cashback at the moment.15:41
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SpeedEvilIf you literally make no calls, and only want data, then vodafone are offering a 1G/15 quid tarrif that does not expire.15:44
wazdVDVsx: neither author nor maintainer anyway :)15:44
lmouraachipa, here15:44
lmourasetanta, baraujo also15:45
jaska1g 15 gbp sounds like pure robbery15:45
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SpeedEviljaska: well - yes and no.15:45
VDVsxwazd, well, you're not a package maintainer I guess :P15:45
SpeedEviljaska: If you don't actually use much data, it can work out cheap - 300m/month = 5 quid/month15:46
ali1234i pay £15/month for 1gb/unlimited gprs and 100 minutes on t-mobile15:46
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SpeedEvilali1234: As a standard offer? I don't recall a tarrif like that.15:47
ali1234SpeedEvil: solo 15 + wen'n'walk + £5 loyalty discount15:47
ali1234today they rang me up and offered me a "free" mobile broadband dongle15:48
ali1234but i suspect there was a catch so i said i already had one15:48
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loufoqueSpeedEvil: can't I just use SIP?15:48
lcukx41fiferboy, something for you
SpeedEvilloufoque: yes, in principle.15:49
achipalmoura: hello there. do you perchance have any info on what's happening to python-dbus ?15:49
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lmouraachipa, any problems?15:50
lmouraI'm not aware of any15:50
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achipalmoura: the SDK and the autobuilder act completely differently15:50
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achipaone has python2.5-dbus, the other doesn't + some paths seem to be different15:50
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achipa(the autobuilder would like to use python-dbus)15:51
fiferboylcukx41: Thanks, I saw that15:51
fiferboyDid you notice how nice qwerty12_N900's colour buttons are?  They work really, REALLy well ;)15:52
SpeedEvilali1234: It doesn't give solo as an option for the web and walk package as far as I can see15:52
lcukx41lol fiferboy told you :)15:52
qwerty12_N900Someome thinks a lot of their work... ;p15:52
achipalmoura: so I get stuff like
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achipalmoura: which compiles just fine on the SDK15:52
ali1234SpeedEvil: dunno, i didn't use the web site, i rang up and talked to a human.15:52
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ali1234i guess it isn't standard15:53
SpeedEvilali1234: I hate companies like that.15:54
ali1234you mean you hate all companies?15:54
SpeedEvilali1234: (who don't give details of what's actually possible)15:54
SpeedEvilali1234: Pretty uch.15:54
ali1234yeah me too15:54
achipalmoura: I can kick it arount by trial and error until it goes through, but I'm hogging the autobuilder because of this already15:55
infobotachipa meant: lmoura: I can kick it around by trial and error until it goes through, but I'm hogging the autobuilder because of this already15:55
ali1234SpeedEvil: if you get solo 20 12 month it's £20 with free w'n'w, which would be the same if you applied a loyalty discount15:55
ali1234of course, the deals for new vs renewing customers are always different15:56
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* lcukx41 is goin loopy hearing about the island of sodor15:57
lmouraachipa, do you mean it works on SDK but fails in the autobuilder?15:57
achipalmoura: Exactly. Fails miserably. (I'm using the 'final' SDK)15:58
lmouraachipa, could you post the pyqt-dbus .install file into some pastebin?15:58
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SpeedEvilali1234: hmm - they ay have changed that - last I looked the free internet was 50M/mo - but it's now 1G15:58
ali1234hmm actually i think i have combi 15 not solo 1515:59
VDVsxwazd, congrats, you just got 84 karmas :P15:59
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achipalmoura: this is an n-th error in the chain, just fixing this little path issue won't help much, I already fixed a ton of things until I got even this far16:02
lmouraachipa, ok16:03
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lmourabaraujo, this looks like something related to python-support/central (installing modules in /var)16:04
VDVsxqwerty12_N900, ping16:04
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qwerty12_N900vdvsx: I will not test your library for you16:06
achipalmoura: the SDK comes with python-dbus 0.83.0-1maemo116:06
VDVsxqwerty12_N900, :(16:06
qwerty12_N900I'm not that kind of person!16:06
VDVsxqwerty12_N900, did you managed to use the exit_app_view dbus call ?16:06
achipalmoura: from fremantle/tools/free16:06
achipalmoura: however, the autobuilder scoops up http://osso.stage.dmz fremantle/free python-dbus 0.83.0-1maemo316:06
achipawhoops ?16:07
qwerty12_N900vdvsx: From dbus-send, yes. I could concoct a quick dbus-glib example if it'd help. Is this on the device or the SDK?16:07
achipaI could probably pin versions, but that's really not a solution16:07
VDVsxqwerty12_N900, device dbus-send fails here, probably I'm missing something16:07
achipalmoura: and of course I did an apt-get update/upgrade on the SDK16:08
qwerty12_N900vdvsx: "dbus-send --type=signal --session /com/nokia/hildon_desktop"16:09
baraujolmoura, yeah, maybe it's related... but it's strange IMHO16:09
VDVsxqwerty12_N900, exactly the same :(16:09
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qwerty12_N900Works here16:09
VDVsxprobably I broke something, gonna restart the daemons ;)16:10
qwerty12_N900I blame you trying to link HD with your library16:10
lmouraachipa, I've just updated my repository and got the maemo3 version16:11
lmouraachipa, are you using extras-devel?16:11
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achipalmoura: no sir, as then I could not promote my stuff to testing (as I don't wish to promote other folks packages without consulting)16:12
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lmouraprobably that's the problem. Looks like the builder is getting the dbus-python from extras-devel16:13
lmouraachipa, BTW, we'll promote the packages to testing early next week16:14
achipalmoura: but it shouldn't use -devel (unless it can't satisfy a dependency), right ?16:14
achipaI mean, the stable/testing repos should have higher package priorities16:14
lmouraachipa, actually I really don't know where it gets the files from (I'm not in charge of uploading the packages) =\16:15
achipaachipa: yeah, but the point is in -devel it's dev stuff. ANybody can upload anything there, and since I'm not relying on cutting edge features, there is no need for a -devel relese to break my own -testing or -devel release (as it can function by using the -stable version)16:17
achipawhoops, talking to myself...16:18
achipaam I making sense at all ? :)16:18
* achipa listens to the telling silence :)16:19
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wazdVDVsx: wow! :D16:21
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* achipa thinks he'll write a little mail to the -developers list that is likely not getting any replies either :) :(16:22
loufoquedoes maemo mapper work with google maps?16:23
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lcukhey ccooke \o16:23
lcukwazd, how on earth are you gonna get to this conf when you cant make it to any other16:24
tekojoachipa X-Fade who does this stuff is apparently away from his terminal, but will certainly get back to this, at least after he get's pinged like this :-)16:25
lcukhey tekojo \o16:26
achipatekojo: thx :)16:27
VDVsxqwerty12_N900, worked now ;) thanks16:29
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qwerty12_N900vdvsx: np, and stop watching that... stuff16:30
lcukthats not stuff16:30
VDVsxqwerty12_N900, the files you sent me, nah, I fwd them to lcuk16:30
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lcuksorry i didnt get them either16:31
qwerty12_N900*splutters* "I" sent you?16:31
lcukoh wait, they were caught up in my midget pron filter16:31
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tekojohi lcuk!16:33
tekojoachipa no problem16:33
lcuktekojo, the video out on the devices (composite) that failed with my device (but works here on my tv), who would i be best to speak to to see if its a hardware or software prob16:34
wazdlcuk: it's magic :)16:36
lcukwazd, which bits magic? you bein locked in country16:36
lcukor the tv out16:36
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tekojolcuk tough call, I don't know the tv-out people16:37
tekojofirst gut reaction would be to check the tv standard, is uk pal or ntsc?16:37
lcukok, well a quick attempt may be try new image in it16:37
lcukuk pal16:37
tekojoso is NL16:37
lcuki tried to switch between both16:37
timeless_mbppeople testing enus1, if things worked properly, you should be able to get a new version which moves the menu item to the control panel16:38
lcukon my tv, it shows both perfectly16:38
lcukand on projectors at onedotzero it did same16:38
lcukbut now, on 2 projectors its failed16:38
tekojolcuk mail danielwilms, or see if he shows up here :-)16:38
lcukyeah was gonna16:38
timeless_mbpfeedback should be queued to my mailbox16:39
lcuki really like the tvout16:39
lcukits something we can onup on the iphone mob with their low resolution crap16:39
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timeless_mbpsince i'm away for a while16:39
* lcuk will update later timeless 16:40
timeless_mbpit looks like the string update itself might not have shipped, so i'll probably try again at some point16:40
timeless_mbpbut be aware that the item will no longer be in More... :)16:40
lcuktekojo, i found out the tv out can actually carry on running liqbase perfectly onto tv whilst i go back to the desktop and even start doing other apps16:40
lcukalright cool timeless16:41
lcukits better in cpl16:41
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tekojolcuk read that somewhere, and was slightly surprised16:41
lcukim greatly impressed :)16:42
lcuktho my presentation software runs perfectly using just 800*48016:42
lcukit offers the future possibility to also just have slidenotes etc16:42
lcukand have the main presentation directly from yuv as well16:42
lcukbut my presentations are currently fully interactive so i can jump around whilst giving it ;)16:43
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Andy80hi all16:43
_|Nix|_Hey! What's a good runtime check to see if we're running in scratchbox? I need to assume that networking's available in that case.16:43
tekojolcuk danielwilms is here now :-)16:43
danielwilmshuhu lcuk :)16:44
lcukdanielwilms haha hi there16:44
Andy80is there a way to avoid all those hildon-desktop[2305]: GLIB WARNING in Scratchbox shell? they're very annoying :P16:44
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qwerty12_N900Nix: I've seen scripts by Nokia use "if [ -d /scratchbox ]"...16:44
lcukdanielwilms, just give that last bit of scrollback a review16:44
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_|Nix|_qwerty12_N900: Not a bad idea ...16:45
hardakerAndy80: >& /dev/null :-)16:45
lcukbut i have a problem that i havent got hardware projector that fails to see if the software works16:45
lcukoooh hang on, next week i might be able to test..16:45
Myrttiqwerty12_N900: oy! what's wrong with that :-D16:45
danielwilmslcuk...that sounds good :)16:45
Andy80hardaker: well... but where I can set that so ALL application do it?16:45
lcukdanielwilms, which bit lol?16:46
hardakerscratchbox/login >& /dev/null?16:46
qwerty12_N900Myrtti: I take back the "..." :P16:46
danielwilmslcuk that you can test  :)16:46
* lcuk waves @ Myrtti <316:46
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lcukyeah daniel ill see if i can get hold of the projector16:46
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danielwilmslcuk, if not tell me what I should do :)16:49
lcukwell it seemed that most people who tried with the devices had no problem16:49
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lcukand as i say i have no problems on certain devices16:49
Myrttiwohey! it's 1700 in Finland and I can fall into my drowsy sneezy flu coma on the couch16:50
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wazdlcuk: I've downloaded a jailbreak software for my country16:57
lcuko_O nice!16:57
lcukhope they dont update their definitions16:58
lcuklol wazd, even worse - they might update their IPS and prevent you from returning once you leave :P16:58
wazdlcuk: I hope they will not brick me on return :D16:58
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andrewgodwinjailbreak? not for maemo, I presume? :)17:09
dl9pfhehe ... its called "su" :P17:10
RST38hwazd: What are you jailbreaking? You are not telling us you have got an iPhone? =)17:11
lcukjailbreaking russia17:11
lcukso he is free to uninstall himself from the country for a while17:11
zaheermhe bought a plane ticket?17:12
_berto_has anyone else noticed that after a few hours/days, the combo box in the browser stops working? is that a known issue?17:12
_berto_i have to kill browserd for it to work again17:12
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RST38hThe web page controls do not work very well for me either, but I *guess* it is most due to the lack of feedback17:13
RST38hThe control works, just does not make it visible, and then you wait for javascript or network request17:13
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loufoqueSpeedEvil: where do you live btw?17:18
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_berto_no, I mean when the page is idle17:20
_berto_I open the bookmark list17:20
_berto_and start to type someting17:20
_berto_and at least the "Search foo in Google" option should appear17:21
_berto_but nothing pops up17:21
RST38hAh...Hmm...never tried it17:22
* RST38h wonders if he should make Diablo releases this weekend17:23
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loufoquewait for Diablo 3 first17:24
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loufoque(that was supposed to be funny)17:26
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sash_hello everybody. does a maemo-version for virtualbox exist? like in the sdk for webos? would like to test it, but i think something like this is not a part of the sdk.17:32
yergaandre__, ping17:33
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SpeedEvilloufoque: Fife.17:35
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loufoqueSpeedEvil: as in scotland?17:35
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andre__yerga, pongpong17:38
yergaandre__, is it possible change the name of a product in bugzilla?17:38
yergaandre__, of my products of course ;-)17:39
andre__yerga, yes, by sending me chocolate17:39
andre__(and a new name, of course)17:39
SpeedEvilDoes the new name have to be engraved in the chocolate?17:39
yergaandre__, it's a deal then ;-)17:39
andre__SpeedEvil, korrekt!17:40
yergaandre__, I want be fair with Nokia and am going to not use Maemo in the names of my applications17:41
yergaandre__, so if you can change it, would be nice17:41
andre__yerga, so you want to go periodic?17:41
yergaandre__, no, better names17:42
yergaandre__, Maemo Periodic becomes Copernicium17:42
yergaandre__, and Maemo WordPy becomes MaStory17:42
andre__Copernicium? ...and i get a node in my tongue for free :-P17:42
andre__okay, I do this now directly? you have builds with the new names ready?17:43
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yergaandre__, yes please, I'm going to upload it in some minutes17:43
andre__ah. cool.17:43
andre__yerga, you don't maintain Maemo Mapper, just in case? :-P17:44
qwerty12_N900andre: Now, now, be fair: Maemo Mapper is allowed :p17:45
loufoquewhat's the recommended mapping software these days17:45
andre__yerga, renamed.17:45
loufoqueI see lots on the website17:45
yergaandre__, not, too complicated for me, don't have the skills ;-)17:45
yergaandre__, thanks! I owe you some chocolate17:45
andre__hmm. mindmapping...17:45
andre__yerga, haha, np.17:45
yergaandre__, to eat? right?17:45
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wazdRST38h: I don't have 300 euros for n900, how the hell I can buy an iPhone for a thousand? :D17:47
loufoquewazd: the N900 is 650€, not 300.17:47
qwerty12_N900Developer discount.17:48
SpeedEvilI thought the discount was $100, or am I confused again.17:48
andre__yerga, yeppah :)17:48
andre__SpeedEvil, you are confused.17:48
andre__but also right.17:49
Jaffaqwerty12_N900: The reason Maemo Mapper is a permitted application name is that it predates the trademark policy. Such products were granted explicit exclusions17:49
JaffaIOW, you couldn't create "Maemo Mapper" today if you wanted to fit within the trademark policy.17:50
qwerty12_N900I know.17:50
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qwerty12_N900But it wasn't created today, hence it being allowed.17:50
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lcukyerga, :) glad you went with the Story name, it is right for yours and better than me sitting on it17:53
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lcukwhats the score with "blahblah for maemo" as a title   like lots of "blahblah for windows" apps17:54
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PlagmanDoes the N900 have a digital compass?17:54
yergalcuk, yeah, the *Story suffix has its point, it's easy to sell ;-)17:55
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yergalcuk, I thought to rename it to "Wordpy for Maemo", but a single word it's imho better17:56
Plagmanother question: is there a branch of SDL around that supports creating an OpenGL ES context through regular SDL_GL entrypoints?17:56
hardakerPlagman: don't think so.  Just the GPS (which isn't as good for direction finding)17:56
PlagmanI expect a compass to be a big help with turn-by-turn GPU as well17:57
Plagmanwhich is basically what you just said actually17:57
loufoqueSpeedEvil: price in dollars is usually cheaper than in euros17:57
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loufoqueeven though a euro is worth 1.5 dollars17:57
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* lcuk has a few skeleton apps like that called things like myStory, myJourney etc17:57
hardakerPlagman: true, but most GPSes actually shut off the compass and rely on gps signal beyond a given speed anyway for doing turn-by-turn things.17:58
Jaffalcuk: "Blah for Maemo" is suggested by the trademark policy as a "good name"17:58
hardakercompasses are very useful when stationary but at a good clip the GPS itself is more than adequate.17:58
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Plagmananyhow, does maemo have turn-by-turn support out of the box?17:59
lcukhardaker, its tough to use gps inside for treasure hunts17:59
* Jaffa is annoyed by apps which have random prefices or suffices based on technology. e.g. KOffice, mCalendar, WordPy :-)17:59
Plagmana lot of apps must annoy you then17:59
hardakerlcuk: I'm a geocacher.  I'm likely to still carry my garmin-with-a-compass around because I don't expect the N900 to be as good.17:59
lbtJaffa: at least K-prefix groups them nicely in the package managers18:00
lcuki agree jaffa18:00
lcukK prefix annoys customers as much as qt* and even liq*18:00
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* lbt is way more annoyed at the non-orthogonal sets in the app mgr18:00
* lbt suggests Apps, Software, Utilities and Tools18:01
lbtsadly that would clear things up18:01
Jaffalbt: should've stuck your oar in when the community came up with the list18:01
lbtI did18:02
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JaffaShould've been louder or righter or just plain more persuasive ;-)18:02
lbtI was shouted down that orthogonal wasn't important18:02
lcukcategories arent helpful with the way they are presented18:02
lbtand I'll just veto it in Mer18:02
lcukand app names arent either18:02
lcukbut there isnt really a better way atm18:02
lcukthe website has em ok18:02
* lbt thinks we shjould "do it right" in Mer and they'll adopt it for harmattan18:03
lcukcos you get examples of apps in the categories quicker18:03
* lcuk has great hope in danielwilms downloads app18:03
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Jaffalbt: How are "Apps", "Software", "Utilities" and "Tools" better? I've not had a problem finding an app I knew to exist in the Fremantle HAM and discovered new stuff in particular categories.18:03
Plagmanso Maemo is Debian-based, right?18:03
JaffaPlagman: Yes18:03
Plagmancan you just add debian repositories to sources.lst and go from there?18:03
Jaffalbt: Same grouping seems to work well enough for Ubuntu18:04
lbtJaffa: are you going yankee on me? do I need <sarcasm> tags?18:04
PlagmanARM repositories, I mean18:04
lcukPlagman, its debian based, but with specifics18:04
lcukits possible on some levels to do as you ask18:04
JaffaPlagman: Yes, but whether the apps will work will depend18:04
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Plagmanor do you have to jump through hoops to get that working? i.e. setup a bootstrap debian tree in an image and chroot into it?18:04
lcuklike i do it with source repos18:04
Jaffalbt: Sorry, too much pain dealing with Texrat today18:04
Plagmandepend on what?18:04
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lbtPlagman: Mer does that18:06
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PlagmanMer? Sorry, I'm not familiar with Maemo-specific terms yet18:06
lbttakes ubuntu and Maemo src + rebuilds to be compatible18:06
lbtMer is the community project to develop an 'open' maemo18:06
Plagmanwhat exactly isn't compatible? does Maemo mess ith the userspace a lot?18:07
lbtbackport to N810s and N800 too18:07
lbtMaemo is a complete distro18:07
zashGnome Do on Maemo?18:07
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lbtit has its own verions of many libs18:07
lcukPlagman, its different enough to be frustrating on the small things18:07
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lcukmer is much closer to upstream18:08
Plagmanso your point is that the userspace setup might be different enough that ld will go crazy trying to execute debian-arm binaries18:08
freenoseHi, is it posible to use a 3G USB modem with a N810?18:08
Plagmanbut rebuilding should be fine, right??18:08
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SpeedEvilfreenose: yes.18:08
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lbtPlagman: correct18:10
lbt(at work - sporadic irc)18:10
freenoseSpeedEvil: any tricks? do I need to compile some modules?18:11
Plagmanand I assume most simpler apps/tools will just work18:11
Plagmani.e. stuff that's likely to depend only on libc and maybe ncurses18:11
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JaffaPlagman: Inded. And there's a full chroot available as well (+ Mer which has already been discussed)18:12
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lbtPlagman: yep -- it's about as safe as adding Debian Etch repos to Ubuntu Karmic18:12
SpeedEvilfreenose: you need the normal 3G modem module, probably and you need an external power source18:12
lbtand if that feels safe and sane then go for it ;)18:12
Plagmanwhat's the terminal emulator of choice?18:12
* lbt steps back from the impending mess18:12
lbtxterm runs fine18:13
* lcuk gets lbt a raincoat18:13
lbtand a big brolly methinks18:13
* lcuk has a Nokia N900 brolly18:13
lcukits like a 4foot stylus18:13
* lbt is jealous18:13
Plagmanwhat's the general quality of the X11 driver for the graphics adapter that's in the N900?18:13
devmaxerm, just one question. what's about armel perl? i mean if i'm trying to build a package with perl, dpkg-buildpackages told me 'using scratchbox tools to blabla the builddeps'.. okay but the perl in /scratchbox/tools/lib/perl/ is x86 perl.. for building armel packages, i need armel perl. what's going wronh there? is this a bug or so?18:13
* lcuk has a Nokia N900 jacket too lol18:13
* lcuk wont wear em tho lol18:14
lbtdevmax: it's a bug called 'scratchbox'18:14
devmaxlbt: LOL :D18:14
lbtseriously, it's one of the problems with sbox18:14
lbt(it's not that bad but sometimes)18:15
devmaxyeah sad, i can only build irssi for armel without perl support. gnah18:15
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lbtdevmax: hmmm18:15
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* lbt wonders how to setup a plain N900 chroot18:16
Plagmanwhen will the n900 be actually available anyway?18:16
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Plagmanor can I just show up in a store today and get it?18:16
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lcukcan the dev enviornment chroot be made available as an installable?18:16
devmaxtoday? that would be great :D18:16
lbtStskeeps the repo is clean enough that that works18:16
lcukfully complete and ready to go?18:16
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Stskeepsdidnt you see that guys post?18:17
Plagmanwell I agree that it would, but I haven't seen anything about a release date yet18:17
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Stskeepssomeone on talk made a ondevice chroot18:17
lbtah, talk.... yes, I heard of that site18:17
freenoseSpeedEvil: the device can't power up the modem?18:18
freenoseI hate nokia18:18
SpeedEvilfreenose: no.18:18
SpeedEvilfreenose: well...18:18
SpeedEvilPlagman: sometime in november18:18
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devmaxanyway... if someone would like to test the irssi on this n900 device, feel free to contact me :) in the sdk it works (ok this has nothing to say)18:18
SpeedEvilPlagman: you can go into a store and get it. But they will chase you.18:19
freenoseWhy did they have to make the N900 not 850/1900 UMTS18:19
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Plagmanwhat does that mean?18:19
Plagmanthe UMTS thing18:19
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freenosemeans you can't have 3G with 850/1900 UMTS networks, at&t for example18:20
SpeedEvilfreenose: becasue radio chipsets capable of all bands are rather expensive.18:20
Plagmanthat sounds horribl18:20
Plagmanespecially since I wad considering AT&T data plans18:20
freenoseerr s/850-1900/900-210018:21
PlagmanI'm glad you said that18:21
freenosePlagman: the N900 is useless on at&t18:21
freenoseunless you are happy with edge18:21
PlagmanI'm most definitely not happy with edge18:22
PlagmanI thought AT&T was the provider of choice for data18:22
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Plagmanthat changes a lot18:22
freenoseSpeedEvil: maybe a future N900 :)18:22
SpeedEvilfreenose: probably.18:22
Plagmanso who has the best data bandwidth?18:23
Myrttiso who can spit the furthest?18:24
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PlagmanI don't mean who as in who here18:24
PlagmanI mean who as in which carrier18:24
PlagmanI'm about to move to California and I need a data plan to go with my current G1 and my future N90018:25
wazd"The DROID is an odd and beautiful device." - engadget18:25
freenoseG1 doesn't support 850/1900 either so don't use at&t18:25
wazdcan anybody point me a single thig that is beautiful in it?18:26
PlagmanI like the shape personally18:26
PlagmanI love devices that look like a solid brick (no irony)18:26
PlagmanI like the DS lite, I like the Zune HD and I like the Droid18:26
wazdPlagman: there's an infinite spalce between Zune HD and droid18:27
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wazdZune HD looks gogeous18:27
wazd seriously18:28
freenosewazd: the keyboard?18:28
Plagmanfreenose: do you have a preferred carrier besides AT&T?18:28
wazdfreenose: 0 that one?18:28
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wazdfreenose: maybe I'm missing something but for me it looks like a result of chineese mold18:30
freenosewazd: looks ugly :P18:30
freenosePlagman: you are missing the point, at&t is fine, it just doesn't support the phones you want for 3G18:31
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Plagmanfreenose: exactly, which is why I need to find another fine one that does support them18:32
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freenoseor the phone doesn't support at&t 3g network, whatever way you which to look at it :)18:32
Plagmanif that exists at all18:32
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freenosewazd: did you know where the specs are for that phone?18:36
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wazdand all those white signs on the screen, moto logo, eeeew18:36
freenosePlagman: tmobile is one18:36
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Plagmanfreenose: I assume the G1 does support 3G on the T-Mobile network18:37
Plagmansince it was marketed as the T-mobile G and all18:37
Plagmanand by extension I assume the N900 does as well18:38
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Plagmanfreenose: the T-mobile website is horrible18:52
PlagmanI can't understand anything about their data plans18:52
Plagmanthey don't say how they cap the bandwidth either18:53
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GeneralAntillesAh, finally, DVR and UPnP are playing nice with the N900.19:36
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* lcuk goes to have dinner19:39
lcukRobot101, thanks, speak to you later on.19:40
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GeneralAntillescomskip is amazing19:51
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, lol.19:52
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VDVsx(original video -> Moto Droid)19:52
EspadaV8_Llol, i like that more than the droid video :)19:53
EspadaV8_Lwhat is the song from the first part of that though?19:53
andre__heh. nearly the same question here... i feel like i know the second song, somehow19:53
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VDVsxEspadaV8_L, same as in the original video:
wazdheh, nice vid :)19:55
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EspadaV8_LVDVsx: yeah, but is it a real song? or just something for the advert?19:55
VDVsxEspadaV8_L, MAGIC" by MOZELLA19:55
VDVsxaccording to a youtube comment19:55
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EspadaV8_Lah yes :)19:56
EspadaV8_Ljust noticed that too19:56
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EspadaV8_Lnot as good as i was hoping :( oh well19:58
wazdI wonder if any manufacturer will finally skip that stupid "social media" hype in the ads19:58
wazdLook, you can twit from new Droid!19:58
EspadaV8_Lit's days like this that i kind miss not using a rolling release distro19:58
EspadaV8_Lsocial media is over rated19:59
VDVsxwazd, OMG, gonna buy one :D19:59
wazdyou can twit from a $50 phone dude! :D19:59
wazdand same for everything19:59
VDVsxyou can twit by SMS, so any phone can twit ;)20:00
wazdVDVsx: well, yeah :)20:00
VDVsxwell >1995 phone , perhaps20:00
GeneralAntilleswazd, they should get Anssi to show you how!20:00
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wazdIt sounds absolutely the same like "Look, you can copy/paste!" iPhone ad20:02
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KMFDMsocial media = irc :p20:03
kynkyirc has facebook integration? :)20:04
kynky /sarcasm20:04
GeneralAntilleskynky, with the right bot? :D20:06
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AndrewFBlackis it just me or does n900 battery applet tell you nothing about battery really20:07
Plagmanis the desktop environment running on maemo completely custom?20:08
Plagmanor is it based on an existing desktop window manager?20:08
kynkywm != de20:08
PlagmanI know20:08
PlagmanI'm mostly talking about the WM here, but I'm interested in the DE as well20:09
kynkygtk for widgets i thought20:09
Plagmanreally? I thought Nokia owned Trolltech, the company behind Qt20:09
PlagmanI assumed they were using that20:09
kynkythey do20:09
Plagmando you know if it's running a composited-desktop?20:10
Plagmando you know if the X server is heavily patched?20:10
kynkymaemo6 for default qt20:10
kynkycompiz would be nice i guess :)20:11
PlagmanI'm afraid it's not a straightforward option20:11
Plagmansince texturing from pixmaps is a GLX-ism20:11
kynkyso use the 3d chip?, q3 works20:12
kynkyi think20:12
Plagmanthe driver for that chip exposes EGL+OpenGL ES20:12
PlagmanEGL as opposed to GLX20:13
PlagmanEGL doesn't have an extension specced to texture from X pixmaps20:13
Plagman(I think)20:13
kynkywell they could use the texture hack when compiz first started?20:13
kynkyb4 it was in nvidia drivers for example20:13
Plagmanthe texture hack?20:13
Plagmanyou mean XGL?20:14
Plagmanthat's not an option either20:14
wjtPlagman: the window manager is Matchbox 2; it uses a somewhat-patched Clutter 0.820:14
PlagmanXGL is long gone (thankfully)20:14
kynkythat was indirect, yeah , but think there were a few other options too20:14
PlagmanClutter has EGLX, right?20:14
wjtI think the X server is only lightly patched20:14
pH5Hi, can anybody explain to me how the margin in the contacts app toolbar is achieved?20:14
pH5If I add a GtkToolbar and put a HildonEntry inside, it starts right at the edge of the screen.20:14
Plagmanso it is a composited desktop, so to speak20:15
wjtThe WM also provides the application launcher, pannable desktop, etc.20:16
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VDVsxclick on the twit link :P20:18
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wazdVDVsx: well, that's an explanation :)20:20
Plagmanis SDL_GL up and running on Maemo?20:20
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zaheer_VDVsx, who cracked gnome's password? :)20:22
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VDVsxzaheer_, well, probably someone mess with the link ;)20:26
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VDVsxthe correct one:
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Robot101oh good20:30
Robot101Analyst Alan Nogee of researcher In-Stat, who recently declared 2010 "the year of Android,"20:31
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Robot101whenever someone says "year of $foo", then $foo is a miserable failure during that year20:31
VDVsxRobot101, well, at lest Android will have a good navigation system, it seems (/me is jealous) :)20:32
zaheer_VDVsx, also planet gnome seems down, maybe related?20:33
Suurorcaah, but will it cache the maps? ;p20:33
ShadowJKIt's kinda sad, nokia maps on symbian is perfectly functional and capable :/20:33
Suurorcawill it be of any use while travelling?20:33
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Suurorcait's almost hilarious how much tomtom  shares dropped ;p20:34
VDVsxzaheer_, the just corrected the link, dunno20:34
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GeneralAntillesShadowJK, Gate5 seems to be retarded.20:34
GeneralAntillesThe developer behind the fail.20:35
lcukis the map format for symbian/maemo maps available anywhere20:36
lcukis it possible to use the system default downloaded maps on n900 in another app20:36
ShadowJKwell, Nokia Maps on my E75 is full of "(C) Navteq" and no mention of Gate5...20:36
evohi guys, I fell in love with n900 a couple of weeks ago, now I'm reading about maemo and so on ... glad to be here :)20:38
GeneralAntillesevo, welcome!20:38
evoGeneralAntilles: thanks!20:38
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AndrewFBlackwhats differance between load-applet and maemo5-load applet in fremantle repo20:39
GeneralAntillesOne of them is better.20:41
GeneralAntillesDon't know which, though.20:41
AndrewFBlacklol I would think maemo5 one might be better20:42
ifreqyeh cooler name.. not :P20:42
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GAN900If anybody is rating packages and notices people mentioning the 'N900' or 'Maemo 5 'when 'Maemo' would be more appropriate, please mention it. ;)20:45
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lcukJaffa, if rotation support gets built in, the app preview images will need to handle this.  just a thought.20:55
GeneralAntillesThey should just be dropped.20:57
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lcukGeneralAntilles, i agree, but if people want them and are starting to use them, it will need thinking about as part of the rotation stuff20:59
lcukand better now, than later20:59
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GeneralAntillesI don't think anybody wants them.21:00
GeneralAntillesThey're confusing and irritating.21:00
JaffaWhat? Preview images.21:01
GeneralAntillesOn app launch.21:01
* Jaffa likes them; /me wants them.21:01
GeneralAntillesJaffa, you shut up.21:01
JaffaHave you seen how long it can take an N900 to launch a trivial Python app from the eMMC?!21:01
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I want your app previews.21:01
GeneralAntillesI don't like Nokia's.21:01
johnsqJaffa: your fault don't use python21:02
* Jaffa suspects it'll get even worse once Python is optified.21:02
lcuk+1 ;)21:02
GeneralAntillesHow did the eMMC get so slow?21:02
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lcukoptify the whole python branch in one go?21:02
Jaffajohnsq: My time is too valuable to waste time in a high-level macro language such as C21:02
lcukdoesnt that make directory parsing once21:02
lcukand not for each individual file21:02
johnsqJaffa: than don't blame its slow.21:03
Jaffalcuk: Yes, but there are apparently "issues" due to the way Python works out where it is. None of them insurmountable.21:03
RST38hJaffa: assembly then?21:03
GeneralAntillesThink we can optify the startup vid?21:03
Jaffajohnsq: It is slow; this is a fact. That I've chosen to trade off start-up time for ease of maintenance is my business.21:03
JaffaRST38h: Much more preferable TBH ;-)21:03
RST38hGeneral,Jaffa: better optify locale cache, 16MB of useless crap21:03
RST38hbtw, localedef is missing from Maemo5 so I cannot even purge unused locales from that cache21:04
johnsqJaffa: try to use python jit.21:04
JaffaRST38h: Isn't that part of the flashed image? Presumably it could be regenerated on first boot but splitting the flashed image complicates things too21:04
lcukwouldnt it be cool for apps to add startup items as part of their postinst21:04
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lcuk"*dum dee dumm omweater onboard bing bong"21:05
etrunkothp: ping21:05
Jaffajohnsq: Psyco "uses a lot of memory"; so could get slowness through masses of swapping21:05
Jaffajohnsq: Oh, and Psyco is x86 only. Is there an ARM Python JIT?21:05
* GeneralAntilles needs thp, too.21:05
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johnsqJaffa: i don't know.21:06
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lcukwould people be happy with short movies on bootup from sponsors of OSS apps?21:07
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, mmc type things have always been slow for anything but bulk transfers21:07
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GeneralAntillesShadowJK, yes, but slower than N8x0 stuff?21:08
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lbthas anyone looked at prelink  on n900 ?21:08
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GeneralAntillesflorian, ping?21:20
GeneralAntilleskulve, ping?21:21
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, ping?21:21
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BluesLeeping ping?21:22
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florianGeneralAntilles: pong21:25
GeneralAntillesflorian, would you like a Maemo Community cloak?21:25
florianGeneralAntilles: sounds cool :)21:26
GeneralAntilles /Maemo/community/contributor/florian21:26
GeneralAntillesX-Fade's talking to a staffer as we speak.21:26
fiferboyI just got contacted about applying my cloak21:27
florianah cool21:27
* florian thinks that might be a good idea21:27
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* lbt dons cloak21:28
* fiferboy too21:28
lbtand swirls it in a true Paso Doble manner21:28
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fiferboylbt: Always with the dancing...21:29
lbtas in irc as in life21:29
X-FadeI guess the credits are gone for this round ;)21:30
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* RST38h moos thoughtfully21:33
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fiferboyDo cloaks give any magic powers?21:35
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johnsqfiferboy: yes scare noobs21:35
javispedromoo RST38h. what a lengthy discussion for bug #530021:36
ifreqthey give stats.. like 10 health, 10 agi, 15 strength21:36
RST38hjavis: That is bt sharing?21:36
javispedromy n810's blue led hasn't stopped blinking for the whole day21:36
RST38hjavis: I really doubt anyone will care enough to fork FM even if it is open sources =(21:36
javispedroFM is a shim21:36
javispedroaround hildon-fm which is OSS21:37
RST38hThere are different opinions on that =)21:37
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javispedrowell, not a light shim.21:37
lcukjavispedro, whats bug 530021:37
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javispedrosupport sending files via bt in file manager21:38
lcukcan someone teach infobot or something how to auto expand those21:38
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RST38hjavis: I have heard from Nokians that all the BT support (up to gnome fs level) is still there just needs ot be reenabled21:39
javispedroin fact, the bt support comes from gnome ...21:39
RST38hbut it has been disabled in fm21:39
javispedrowell, it comes from gvfs..21:39
javispedrogio is being used now iirc.21:39
javispedroso, not trivial then.21:39
lcukdodes it need new ui adding21:40
RST38hI have heard a suggestion to try obex:// in MicroB first21:40
javispedrowhat I'm sure is that the file system root nodes come from hildon-fm21:40
javispedroso potentially you could add the obex one back21:40
RST38hif nothing else got broken while it was disabled21:41
javispedroRST38h: I don't agree with your point about OBEXFTP being more useful. Older Palms don't support FTP but only EXchange.21:41
RST38hjavis: Yes, but we probably no longer need to care about those =)21:41
RST38hjavis: Ideally though, both are needed21:42
javispedromissing OBEX "send" and receive support seems like a glaring omission to me.21:42
javispedrowell, receive support is there at least I hope?21:42
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javispedroand, well, reimplementing the fm just for adding a freaking menu item in the context menu seems insane, so file a "Open Feature Request" and I'll vote for it :)21:44
RST38hX-Fade: Any way to upload a screenshot?21:44
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X-FadeRST38h: Try now?21:45
RST38hjavis: I would like ot let thp harvets karma for that, it was his idea after all :)21:45
RST38hX-Fade: No luck. Page simply reloads, no file upload21:47
X-FadeRST38h: Do you click on upload or on save?21:48
RST38hbrowse, then upload21:48
* X-Fade needs all people with cloack request to see if they got a messeage about their cloack.21:49
* Jaffa has21:49
X-FadeYou guys need to respond to that message.21:50
* Jaffa has had it applied.21:50
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X-FadeThis service announcement was brought to you by: maemo.org21:50
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RST38hX-Fade: tried again, still does not work21:52
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X-FadeRST38h: I'm checking something. Let me see if that is i ;)21:52
X-FadeRST38h: Maybe the files aren't written out to the static cache.21:53
RST38hIt is all mumbo jumbo to me =)21:54
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X-FadeVDVsx: Gave you some powers on the channel.21:58
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VDVsxX-Fade, can I kick lcuk now ?22:01
X-FadeVDVsx: Yeah, that should work.22:01
* VDVsx is kidding :)22:01
lcukwell i did kick you in london22:01
VDVsxlcuk, you bastard!!!22:01
GeneralAntillesOh crap!22:02
* GeneralAntilles hides.22:02
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* VDVsx wonders why maemo-optify sometimes do weird things22:02
lcuklol GeneralAntilles it will take him 30 minutes to learn how to kick22:02
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RST38hwazd: Here?22:04
lcukX-Fade, did you put the "pull app from testing if owner downvotes it" tweak to the server?22:04
lcukso that if testers identify a blocker bug they dont waste time testing22:04
lcuk*the others dont waste time22:04
X-Fadelcuk: no, not yet.22:04
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X-Fadelcuk: Thinking of doing that this night. Or sleep. Hmm tough...22:05
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GeneralAntillesSleep is for the weak.22:05
lcuksleep dude, the rest of the apps themselves need testing22:05
lcukbetter to have people checking different things22:06
X-FadeI need to skip the test session tomorrow ;(22:06
lcukthats also ok as long as the servers dont melt22:06
X-FadeSo I'd better do something in advance ;)22:06
* lcuk is having a bit of a cleanup tonight22:07
X-Fadelcuk: Vacuuming at 3am? :)22:08
lcukits 8pm22:08
X-Fadelcuk: tonight doesn't specify an end :)22:08
lcuk:) i did just buy a new jar of coffee22:08
* lcuk has "a mega brew for a mega dad" cup22:09
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javispedroso, considering dosbox, openttd, and drnoksnes. on which aspect should I waste my time to try to pass -testing QA? >:)22:12
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* javispedro is so evil. 22:13
kulveGeneralAntilles: pong22:14
GeneralAntilleskulve, you want a Maemo Community cloak?22:14
kulveI guess I don't need one. I'm not that active here..22:15
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kulvethanks for asking22:15
GeneralAntilleskulve, fair enough.22:15
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javispedroseriously speaking, I'm a bit worried about the "power management" QA checklist item.22:15
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javispedrofrom what I read, it seems like if I have to messagebox the user "this app WILL waste your battery" and then go on and suck their precious watts22:16
javispedrodoes bounce do that?22:16
RST38hjavis: BTW, OpenTTD still needs work =)22:16
javispedroI'm sure it sucks the battery...22:16
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, no22:16
GeneralAntillesYou're fine.22:16
GeneralAntillesI think people are aware games suck power.22:16
GeneralAntillesThis is more an issue with something like Transmission.22:17
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javispedroRST38h: retrofitting all dialogs... er...22:17
javispedroGeneralAntilles: ta22:17
RST38hjavis: Pleaseeeeee22:17
* javispedro goes to check what they did to DS port22:17
* RST38h just made an empty shell for a small music player22:17
v2pxa/cs infp #maemo22:18
v2pxi failed22:18
javispedroRST38h: MAFW?22:18
RST38hGoing to ask wazd for a skin and make a player22:18
RST38hjavis: Dunno, have not yet figured how I am going to play files22:18
RST38hjavis: All I want is a scrollable, searchable list of files in nice retro font and LCD colors22:18
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RST38hjavis: I do not care for all that stuff they have got in the default player22:19
javispedroI would want a player with "Just play this damn entire folder, which corresponds to a single album, inside a folder structure I've spent years organizing" support.22:20
Suurorca*shrugs* oggplay did that rather well on s6022:20
javispedrobut then, I prefer the kickass gui, so mass id3tag editors do the job for now.22:20
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javispedroRST38h: even the DS port maintainer only retrofitted 4 windows. and that's the "official portable device openttd" port :P22:22
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lcukRST38h, i told you, a media player is "hello world" :P22:24
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RST38hlcuk: the problem is that nobody has written it so far22:31
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RST38hjavis: well we are not DS, got way more resolution22:32
RST38hEh...Nokia shutting down NGage22:33
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EspadaV8_Lyeah, so i read, i thought they already had :-S22:35
RST38hnext: Ovi Store22:35
RST38hHas Nokia Download been closed down as well btw?22:36
EspadaV8_Lthat thing was a mess22:36
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RST38hwhich of them was NOT a mess? :)22:39
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EspadaV8_Lthe application manager on the n900? :-)22:43
EspadaV8_Lno, wait, that has fail too22:43
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RST38hHmmm.. How do people upload their screenshots at all?22:49
javispedroOS2008 was using the annoying floating bar22:49
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RST38hsame in maemo522:50
javispedroi see a screenshot field there.22:51
RST38hyes but when you click Upload it never uploads22:51
javispedroah, nice.22:51
JaffaRST38h: No, I had that. Gave up. Went back in, it was there. Figured it was a microb weirdity22:53
RST38hI am uploading via firefox. tried ie too, didn't work22:54
RST38hthe package editing interface is so badly broken :(22:54
javispedroI had a hard time just to add myself as an author once. I keep on adding everyone save for me.22:54
javispedros/I keep/It keep22:54
GeneralAntillesSo far it's taken Amazon 4 days to get the package to the post office.22:54
RST38hjavis: yea, but this can be worked around with ie6 =)22:55
RST38hjavis: ie6 miraculously works22:55
javispedroAmazon takes a whopping half month to ship here, and that's with the non-cheapest shipping option.22:55
GeneralAntillesStandard 3-5 day shipping22:55
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Yeah, but at least your post office isn't a bunch of socialist luddites who are currently striking22:55
GeneralAntillesSays it's going to arrive next Wednesday.22:55
RST38hGeneral: sounds typical, takes the same to MD22:56
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javispedroI can't complain. I ordered a book, they said me "10 november", and it arrived this wednesday.22:56
GeneralAntillesJaffa, hey, don't blame me for your inability to keep the proles happy. :P22:56
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I normally get about 2-4 days with standard shipping and USPS.22:56
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RST38hJaffa: Actually, his post office is either a bunch of armed wackos ready to kill their coworkers or a bunch of freeloaders hired by USPS just to get them off velfare22:57
* RST38h cackles evilly22:57
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caoticdo you guys think that the n900 would be compatible with any cellphone carrier ? (outside de us  ?  )23:05
ifreqcaotic: why not?23:06
freenosebut check the 3G bands in your country23:06
caoticwell a lot of cellphones that are bought over the counter in us have to had some modifications to be able to work with the carriers ... I think (I dont really now about cellphone regulations)23:07
ifreqah okay.. not familiar with us stuff23:07
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sijkGSM 1800, GSM 1900, GSM 850, GSM 900, WCDMA 1700, WCDMA 2100, WCDMA 90023:07
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caoticI am very hipped to buy mine, but I am realistic and I know there will be some pains ..23:07
freenosewhat country?23:08
freenoseit that links is correct, you won't be able to use 3G with the n900 in mexico23:09
caoticfreenose: bummer23:10
caoticfreenose: does it has gprs ?23:10
ifreqfreenose: yeh but he can use edge ofcourse23:10
ifreqcaotic: well usually they do23:11
caoticthe n900 ?23:11
freenoseyes you can edge23:11
ifreqwould be fun to see phone with 3G only23:11
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freenosebut using a n900 with edge is sad :P23:11
ifreqwell 3G doesnt work everywhere even its listed on some site.23:12
caoticfreenose: but not as sad as not using a n900 :)23:12
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caoticfreenose: how can you tell that 3G wont work. .. I mena what frequency is needed ...23:13
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freenosecompare the UMTS freqs supported by the N900 to those supporte by your country23:15
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caoticI see23:16
caoticwell still exited23:16
freenoseyou should be depressed!23:17
caoticWhy I mostly use wifi.23:17
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caoticWhat will be a pain is to buy the darn thing Nokia mx wont sell it and nokia us is very anal about the creditcard's country23:18
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ifreqcaotic: what about nokiastore?23:23
caoticfreenose: it may be very expensive  to buy by ebay23:24
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* thp here23:37
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javispedroiTunes breaking Palm Pre again :D23:40
jaem_n810poor Palm23:41
javispedrobtw, noticed that the Palm Pre has a 256MiB rootfs too?23:41
javispedrowhy they don't get a shitload of complains like the N900 does?23:41
thpetrunko: pong23:41
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lcukjavispedro, apps are data23:42
johnsqjavispedro: because they are closed source23:42
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lcukthey are mostly web stuff with a framework23:42
lcuki could have 32gb of html23:42
javispedrolcuk: but the installer puts them in rootfs, because they don't want windoze users watching all the javascript source and messing with it while mounting through USB23:42
javispedrowhich is the core issue here.23:42
jaem_n810lcuk: did you see the post about it by Matthew Garret?23:43
lcukno jaem23:43
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JaffaAnyone have a Maemo 5 commandline for opening a random image (under /usr/share/icons) in image_viewer, sketch or browser?23:44
jaem_n810quite interesting23:44
javispedroso what do palm pre users do? "optification", but it's called "mvapptification".23:44
lcukJaffa, fiferboy knows23:45
lcukand its built into his picture frame viewer23:45
GeneralAntillesthp, would you like a Maemo Community cloak?23:45
lcukGeneralAntilles, i have my shields up!23:45
thpGeneralAntilles: yes, please :) i wanted to reply to your mail but somehow forgot23:45
GeneralAntillesthp, right, marking you down.23:45
GeneralAntillesMay be a while until we get the next round through, though.23:46
lcukhi thp23:46
GeneralAntillesYou missed the second round a few hours ago. ;)23:46
thplcuk: hi23:46
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jaem_n810GA: what's this?23:46
Jaffalcuk: I just need a quick one-liner23:46
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Jaffalcuk: /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/hildon/widgets_tickmark_list.png23:47
Jaffadbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="" --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request string:/usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/hildon/widgets_tickmark_list.png23:47
JaffaCatchy, innit?23:47
lcukJaffa, you found it already!23:47
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javispedrolcuk: oh, saw you're doing irc stats23:49
javispedrohow often do you usually update them?23:49
javispedroor was it just a one-shot issue?23:49
lcukive never done them or updated them lol23:50
lcukit was just a quick run23:50
lcukmarius needs to do proper stats23:50
javispedroah, nm then.23:50
lcukfor complete session23:50
javispedrothey're fun.23:50
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etrunkothp: how's the feedparser thing?23:51
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Suurorcayeah, but generating them from 10 years worth of backlog is getting a bit cpu intensive =)23:51
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thpetrunko: did not have time to work on it in the last couple of days, but will hopefully continue soon23:52
thpetrunko: i am thinking of solving the multiple-application integration by simply using .desktop files that handle the rss reader mimetype and then searching for suitable applications using that.23:53
thpetrunko: you would have to provide a d-bus service that uses mime_open, but you basically have this already with canola's feedhandler, so it would be pretty painless to integrate :)23:54
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etrunkook, is it already available for diablo?23:56
etrunkoi'm about to release a new version of canola and plugins23:56
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etrunkoso i think i should still ship the feedparser?23:56
thpyes, it's in diablo extras-devel iirc23:57
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thpi think you can still ship it, but maybe rename the "feedhandler" to canola.feedhandler or something23:58
thp(and the d-bus service name and things like that in general.. so that we don't have name clashes between the two different feedhandlers)23:58
etrunkomakes sense23:59
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