IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-10-31

thp	and then as soon as i get my act together and implement the .desktop file parsing, you just have to remove the postinst/postrm sed'ing of the defaults file and then I can set a "Conflicts: canola-tuning (< [the new version])" on the feedhandler package, and it should work (I think?)	00:00
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a1mega	Anyone know if it is possible to run REBOL programming language on N810 OS2008?	00:14
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lbt	a1mega: is it OSS code with a debian port?	00:14
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a1mega	I'm not sure...the download is at rebol.com	00:16
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ali1234	no, it appears to be binary only and they only have linux bins for x86 and ppc	00:17
a1mega	okay...thanks ali.	00:17
ali1234	and the licence says no modifications	00:17
etrunko	thp: my experience says that app manager can't solve the conflicts/replaces stuff	00:17
a1mega	I know they have a version for Ubuntu.	00:18
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etrunko	e.g. this new version of canola isn't upgradable with app manager, but works ok with a simple #apt-get install canola2 command	00:18
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etrunko	if you don't have canola installed then it is installable with app manager	00:18
etrunko	anyway	00:18
a1mega	I sure wish Nokia would had put the N900 guts into the N810 and improved the keyboard. :(	00:19
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thp	etrunko: hmm. so what do you suggest with handling of upgrades / conflicts with old versions?	00:20
SpeedEvil	a1mega: why?	00:21
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ali1234	i'd rather have it in something like a psion 5	00:23
a1mega	I really enjoy the size and keyboard of the N810.....the N900 looks too small and there is less keyboard.	00:23
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a1mega	I do like the Psion T too.	00:23
ali1234	i'm sure someone will make something like that soon	00:24
a1mega	Does anyone know it there will be a Adobe Flash 10 upgrade to N810?	00:24
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GeneralAntilles	The N900 keyboard kicks the N810's keyboard's ass.	00:25
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VDVsx	etrunko, it seems that some of these issues only happens if you install things by the command line	00:25
a1mega	Is there an alternative Twitter client to Mauku which allows replying to tweets?	00:26
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a1mega	Gen.. I thought the N910 had less keys than N800?	00:26
GeneralAntilles	a1mega, sure, but the number of keys aint everything.	00:27
SpeedEvil	It does, it loses all the vowels.	00:27
GeneralAntilles	The tactile feedback alone is worlds better	00:27
ali1234	http://www.filesaveas.com/images/psion5.jpg <- best palmtop keyboard ever	00:27
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ali1234	and it's 12 years old	00:28
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javispedro	and if released today would have all bloggers laughing for more than 24 hours.	00:28
a1mega	N900 keybrd only has 3 rows of keys versus N810 4 rows.	00:28
ali1234	bloggers are dumb	00:29
javispedro	who isn't? :)	00:29
ali1234	meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee	00:29
a1mega	=»The tactile feedback alone is worlds... That's what I meant by improving the N8qp's kybrd. :)	00:30
ali1234	seriously, i would have thought it's exactly what bloggers want. i mean who wants to write a blog on a thumb keyboard?	00:31
a1mega	It almost looks like u have to have midget fingers to use N900 kybrd too. :)	00:31
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GeneralAntilles	a1mega, I've used both.	00:31
GeneralAntilles	a1mega, have you used the N900 keyboard? :)	00:31
GeneralAntilles	a1mega, the 3-row keyboard keeps your fingers closer to the touchscreen.	00:31
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a1mega	No... At 500 vs $220 8 dare not touch it!	00:32
GeneralAntilles	a1mega, judging a keyboard based on photos usually isn't very productive.	00:32
etrunko	VDVsx: nop	00:33
a1mega	I really think touchscreens need to improve so as not to smudge.	00:33
javispedro	I hope the N97's one is classified as "the worst ever made". I tried it briefly today	00:33
afbn900	generalantilles did your n900 come with video out cable	00:33
etrunko	i've tested on a pristine system	00:33
lcuk	a1mega, a dark theme does not show the smears so much	00:34
a1mega	I always use stylus 'cause I hate fingerprint smudges on my kybrd.	00:34
lcuk	the brighter the screen, the more you notice	00:34
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Macer	anybody knwo a good law # ?	00:34
VDVsx	etrunko, some are related to the app manager,e.g. if I install a game that has a -data dependency by the command line and then remove it, the app manager doesn't remove the -data, if I install everything using the app manager, works fine	00:34
VDVsx	a bit weird	00:34
javispedro	that sucks.	00:34
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* javispedro sighs at the "chicken-like" algorithms		00:35
javispedro	but then, H-A-M is OSS... so...	00:35
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a1mega	Well..hopefully one day there will be a Nokia N820 with N900 guts, no phone and same sized kybrd with N910's tactile enhancements.	00:36
lcuk	will the ovi store be available for n810 or Mer?	00:36
javispedro	hah. what kind of question was that? :)	00:37
GeneralAntilles	afbn900, it came with an EU charger	00:38
GeneralAntilles	afbn900, and nothing else.	00:38
a1mega	Lcuk: Do u plan to release anymore update to your wonderful app?	00:38
uhsf	just don't use the phone feature?	00:38
GeneralAntilles	a1mega, good luck.	00:39
a1mega	Gen: ???	00:39
* javispedro wouldn't be surprised if next maemo device is same size as n900 and has no keyboard.		00:39
ali1234	afbn900: i have a video out cable	00:40
uhsf	i prefer a kb	00:40
* lcuk wants maemo on n97		00:40
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lcuk	mini	00:40
javispedro	maemo on < 800x480 ? :)	00:40
* johnsq wants all but no maemo		00:40
lcuk	mer can run on a lighter, maemo should be able to find a way to cope on real graphics	00:40
javispedro	at least you have better chances than me trying to run maemo on palm m130. that uclinux port looks promiiising :D	00:41
a1mega	I guess its not fair to compare the 810 to the 900 because on is a full blown phone... Which I'm trying to get away from.	00:41
lcuk	the dpi is such now that we are writing apps with big fonts, just scale and reduce at the x11 end	00:41
etrunko	VDVsx: thing is.. i have a lightmediascanner package on extras, but on this version i changed the packaging scheme for it, already uploaded to extras-devel.	00:41
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lcuk	it would actually run better too	00:41
lcuk	cos theres less rendering	00:41
ali1234	lcuk: indeed. in theory you should just be able to change the xserver dpi and have everything automatically adjust	00:41
ali1234	that's assuming the apps are written properly	00:42
etrunko	VDVsx: in this new scheme i've added conflicts/replaces to the new lms packages telling that they conflict with older versions	00:42
lcuk	so the apps still think theres 800*480 tho	00:42
javispedro	nope. on n900 xorg's dpi is 96.	00:42
etrunko	VDVsx: in this case app manager refuses to upgrade canola to the new version	00:42
a1mega	I hate phone contracts and big telco companies.	00:42
javispedro	i think gtk themes are hacked to use bigger pt fonts.	00:42
etrunko	VDVsx: it says the packages conflict	00:42
lcuk	javispedro, it should be possible tho, you see what i mean	00:42
javispedro	but really. everything would look poor.	00:42
etrunko	VDVsx: which is true, but it doesn't take into account the replaces field	00:42
lcuk	javispedro, it would run tho	00:42
etrunko	VDVsx: got it?	00:42
ali1234	javispedro: it "should" be possible in that it would be possible if coders weren't lazy	00:42
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VDVsx	etrunko, yup, and did you try only with the replace field ?	00:43
a1mega	Now if WiMax would just get moving! :)	00:43
VDVsx	*tried	00:43
etrunko	VDVsx: not really.	00:43
javispedro	ali1234: i've been arguing for ages with a web designer for that. true resolution independency is a hard issue.	00:43
ali1234	it's hard on the web, sure	00:43
javispedro	before you point to any gtk app as sample wait and try them in a 800x480 screen.	00:43
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afbn900	what cable do you need for video out on n900	00:43
ali1234	it's not hard on the desktop	00:43
lcuk	its not hard to just keep the app think its working at 800*480	00:44
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lcuk	and do the scaling	00:44
ali1234	afbn900: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cable-3-5mm-Composite-Colour-Display/dp/B000ICMEQI <- one like this	00:44
lcuk	if we are designing big fingerable ui the glyphs should just shrink etc	00:44
pupnik_	afbn900: comes in N900 box	00:44
ali1234	afbn900: at least that has the same connectors, no guarantee they're wired the same	00:44
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afbn900	pupnik not if you already hacve n900 but no box just a bag	00:45
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javispedro	aha, you stole it!	00:45
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afbn900	i didn't even know they made a 3.5 mm to composite cable lol	00:46
ali1234	yeah my 10 year old camcorder has one :)	00:47
ali1234	i think they're pretty standard so at worst you'll just have to swap around the phono connectors	00:47
ali1234	they have to be like that to retain compatibility with headphones i think	00:47
afbn900	well i knew about 2 wire ones but not 3	00:47
pupnik_	you knew 3	00:48
pupnik_	stereo	00:48
pupnik_	lol	00:48
afbn900	i have one how that i think about it	00:48
afbn900	mine mite be audio only going to pull rthem out	00:49
a1mega	N900 kybrd spacebar off to the right? What were they smokin?	00:50
afbn900	yep mine are 2 wire audio only i guess	00:50
javispedro	I don't what I prefer. TMO filled with N900 WHERE? WHAT? WHEN? threads or TMO filled with stupid threads.	00:51
afbn900	a1mega i like it there now	00:51
Mousey	a1mega: ditto	00:51
a1mega	What gives???	00:51
Mousey	the right man is holdin' me down	00:51
achipa	if building 2m30s on a local machine translates to 2h40m on the autobuilder, how much does a local 6m23s build take on the autobuilder ? Uh oh...	00:51
Mousey	down with righty!	00:51
a1mega	What other device uses this configuration?	00:52
a1mega	Or was it a 'revelation'?	00:52
Mousey	most notebook computers nowadays offset their glidepads (blech) to the right as well	00:52
Mousey	s/right/left/	00:52
infobot	Mousey meant: most notebook computers nowadays offset their glidepads (blech) to the left as well	00:52
achipa	the space is not as irritating as it may seem at first glance	00:52
Mousey	achipa: are you left handed?	00:52
achipa	Mousey: no	00:53
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Mousey	then where it is is probably natural for yo	00:53
Mousey	u	00:53
ali1234	the space bar is really the least annoying thing about n900 keyboard	00:53
ali1234	try typing an ip address on it	00:53
a1mega	To bad for lefties like Obama. ;)	00:53
afbn900	trust me once you get n900 in hand you will like space key	00:53
achipa	ali1234: exactly	00:53
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achipa	the non-combination of dots and numbers is BAD	00:54
ali1234	especially one with lots of 1s in it	00:54
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Lupu	I'm left handed and I have no problems with it.	00:54
Mousey	afbn900: you're left handed?	00:54
achipa	I also want to see how Nokia devs press ctrl+shift+x	00:54
achipa	It's nothing short of finger-gymnastics	00:54
ali1234	what does ctrl-shift-x do?	00:54
achipa	ali1234: opens terminal	00:54
ali1234	cool, gotta remember that one	00:55
afbn900	im both but on a keyboard this small doesnt matter	00:55
Mousey	nobody's both. i can't believe the keyboard is smaller	00:55
achipa	also, ssh is tricky	00:55
javispedro	why do you need to hit the space bar with your "preferent" hand again?	00:55
Mousey	who thought less keys is a good idea?	00:55
Lupu	ali1234: I'm having enough trouble getting just Sym!	00:55
Mousey	javispedro: i donno. my is my mouse on the left?	00:55
achipa	try using ~. to close a connection - quite an exercise :)	00:55
javispedro	is your spacebar on the left?	00:55
Mousey	it's in the middle	00:56
afbn900	mousey some things i do with right some left some i do with both i am just a little better right handed	00:56
javispedro	well. I'm right handhed and I always hit it with the left hand.	00:56
javispedro	mostly because my right hand is near the mouse...	00:56
ali1234	you could always prise off the keys and remap it like you want :)	00:56
Mousey	i type one handed left handed	00:56
Mousey	that's not gonna be easier	00:56
a1mega	TheN810 Internet Tablet....the N900 is a cell phone with a keyboard.	00:56
afbn900	hardest thing is typing while charging	00:57
achipa	okay, one builder reserved till 6AM :)	00:57
javispedro	i can't type onehanded in the n810. it's awful	00:57
Mousey	i'm -trying- to wait to try the n900, but so far i don't know how i'm gonna but end up getting another n810	00:57
Mousey	if i can find one	00:57
Mousey	=(	00:57
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achipa	actually, it's odd - I type faster on the N810 keyboard, but it's a lot more strain than the N900	00:58
pupnik_	amzed how well N900 keyboard works	00:58
pupnik_	thumbs have to move too far on n810	00:58
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pupnik_	900 will be faster top speed typing	00:59
pupnik_	for me	00:59
Mousey	We'll See(tm)	00:59
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Jaffa	Hmm. Anyone know why a gtk.TreeView I've created isn't getting "sticky" selection rows? (i.e. I want to tap on a row, it highlights and the user clicks a button in the dialogue to dismiss it)	00:59
achipa	the thing is the N810 kdb is smoother to the touch, it's easier to slide fingers on it	01:00
achipa	almost like an unresponsite touchscreen	01:00
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* GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk at remote tech support.		01:00
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achipa	(also flatter than the N900)	01:00
achipa	which is good for speed, but bad for tactile response/feeling	01:00
radic__	hmm	01:01
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GeneralAntilles	a1mega, then don't get a contract.	01:01
radic\|alc	I trunk to less...	01:01
a1mega	I see.	01:02
radic\|alc	hehe a1mega	01:02
radic\|alc	I can type correctly	01:02
a1mega	I'd then pay $600 for the 900 and use wifi?	01:02
a1mega	He he he. :)	01:03
GeneralAntilles	Mousey, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambidexterity	01:03
Mousey	yah, that's another argument for me to just get another n810.. way cheaper	01:03
GeneralAntilles	a1mega, why do you need a contract for a SIM?	01:03
GeneralAntilles	Mousey, the N810 started out at $479	01:03
GeneralAntilles	N900 is available for around $550 street.	01:03
GeneralAntilles	a1mega, you can get a pay as you go plan.	01:04
Mousey	GeneralAntilles: "extremely rare"	01:04
Mousey	indeed	01:04
GeneralAntilles	Mousey, you said "nobody".	01:04
GeneralAntilles	The world aint that black'n'white.	01:04
a1mega	Gen....I just hate the big Telcos.....yuck!	01:04
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Mousey	yah, i just want an internet tablet	01:04
GeneralAntilles	a1mega, not sure what that has to do with the N900.	01:04
achipa	Mousey: "can be learned"	01:04
Mousey	it's a phone	01:04
javispedro	Cross-dominance is more common.	01:04
achipa	I'm that group too	01:05
GeneralAntilles	This is the device that will break the telco domination.	01:05
Mousey	everybody's ambidexterous to some degree then	01:05
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, I'm so cross-dominated it's not even silly.	01:05
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, worst handwriting ever.	01:05
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a1mega	Gen: How so?	01:05
zash	GeneralAntilles: so that they finaly stfu and become isp's?	01:05
GeneralAntilles	zash, LTE.	01:05
Mousey	s/LTE/WiMAX	01:05
GeneralAntilles	a1mega, it's the first real open source phone.	01:06
javispedro	they still look wrong at me when I grab a fork.	01:06
GeneralAntilles	Mousey, WiMAX tried and failed.	01:06
GeneralAntilles	US carriers actually have roadmaps for LTE rollouts.	01:06
Mousey	it's an open standard, and clearwire's doing quite well	01:06
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Mousey	only the CARRIERS tho, not the community	01:06
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Mousey	they'll be forced to support WiMAX if there's enough market pressure for an open standard	01:06
Suurorca	i just hope that there will be just one frg range...	01:07
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a1mega	Gen: But without an iphone-like store with tons of apps, how will it succed?	01:07
javispedro	bought N810 WiMax edition?	01:07
achipa	a1mega: It will succeed in a different way	01:07
* Mousey lost his n810, is still quite sad		01:07
javispedro	a1mega: the iPhone succeds due to its store? doubtful.	01:07
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Mousey	javispedro: well it's certainly not for its technical superiority (blech)	01:07
a1mega	Achipa: just 4 techies like us?	01:08
zash	didn't the iphone sell quite well before the appstore too?	01:08
GeneralAntilles	a1mega, erm, did the iPhone start out with 1000s of apps?	01:08
GeneralAntilles	zash, indeed.	01:08
javispedro	not only that. but the PalmOS _DIED_ all while having more apps than the iPhone.	01:08
achipa	a1mega: no, in terms it's a different business model	01:08
Suurorca	maybe if nokia trade-marked the half-eaten banana...	01:08
zash	also, "first real open source phone" .. ahem, openmoko?	01:08
Mousey	the iPhone had the apple logo	01:08
Mousey	and therefore an immediate following. plus the iPod to boot	01:09
a1mega	Gen: No....but people loved the footprint an interface and....... Stevie Jobs	01:09
achipa	zash: openmoko never really shipped, sadly	01:09
javispedro	all hail the stewie jobs!	01:09
Mousey	sure it did, you can buy a Neo Freewave	01:09
GeneralAntilles	zash, REAL	01:09
achipa	Mousey: that's not a phone, that's a hardware SDK :)	01:09
Mousey	OpenMoko devs have abandoned it tho.. (for Palm WebOS)(which i try not to talk about)	01:09
GeneralAntilles	zash, OpenMoko is a JOKE	01:09
GeneralAntilles	Their efforts are laudable	01:10
GeneralAntilles	but the project was killed by way outdated hardware and rank mismanagement.	01:10
javispedro	moving to webos? lol	01:10
Suurorca	neither did it's phone app really work. most ppl i know that have a freerunner just used it with debian...	01:10
a1mega	People crawl over broken glass for a darn iphone/itouch....sheesh!	01:10
GeneralAntilles	Nokia actually has a chance of bringing an open source device to the mainstream.	01:10
Mousey	another one	01:10
SpeedEvil	The project was not killed by the hardware.	01:11
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SpeedEvil	In 2007, there was working - though slow hardware - that can get a few days battery life and a very good screen, and admittedly annoying GPRS.	01:11
achipa	Funny that, it seems like a fun story. I mean, here in Europe the iPhone is just another phone. Shiny, fancy phone, but still a phone like any other. Nowhere near the Pathos it gets in the US.	01:11
SpeedEvil	It was killed by lack of software.	01:11
Suurorca	please don't mix the OS and the crappy china hardware =)	01:11
zash	SpeedEvil: don't i remember you from #openmkoko?	01:12
javispedro	achipa: then I must live in the 51st state.	01:12
SpeedEvil	zash: Possibly.	01:12
a1mega	People don't care about open source, they just want something like the darn phone....thin with a neat simpl GUI	01:12
Suurorca	the famed "steå 5" users won't, that's for sure	01:13
a1mega	[I can't spell worth a darn!]	01:13
Mousey	which is why it's a mistake to think maemo will every appeal to the masses	01:13
Mousey	it's too awesome, does way too much, and is far more than a Phone OS	01:13
Suurorca	a1mega: me neither ;p	01:13
a1mega	Mousey: Correcto mundo! Bing!	01:13
javispedro	what appeals to the masses is a damn unknown.	01:13
Mousey	the masses are easy creatures	01:13
ali1234	don't underestimate what can be achieved with qt/maemo 6	01:14
GeneralAntilles	Man it is freaking impossible to get Windows to take a keyboard layout change.	01:14
a1mega	Javis: Wrong......iphone appeals to the masses....waje up!	01:14
Mousey	ali1234: what you mean is don't understimate what CANNOT be achieved	01:14
javispedro	a1mega: ok, what the next that will appeal to the masses.	01:14
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* GeneralAntilles watches logic and reason fly out the window.		01:15
Mousey	ali1234: it's a WONDERFUL tablet OS	01:15
Mousey	but a phone?	01:15
a1mega	People are freakin' gaga over the dard Jobs phone.	01:15
Mousey	that's aiming way too low	01:15
ali1234	Mousey: tablets REALLY don't appeal to the masses	01:15
Mousey	ali1234: that's fine, but that's kinda my point	01:15
a1mega	Javis: Iphone II	01:15
ali1234	aiming to make a tablet is aiming about as low as it is possible to aim	01:15
a1mega	:)	01:15
ali1234	any lower and you're shooting youself in the foot	01:15
Mousey	ugh. i just wish there was a steno-pad sized tablet running maemo	01:16
a1mega	People don't want a darn tablet.	01:16
Mousey	that would really make the OS shine	01:16
Mousey	many people do	01:16
* GeneralAntilles shakes his head.		01:16
Mousey	just not the masses	01:16
javispedro	we don't want darn people.	01:16
Mousey	clearly	01:16
ali1234	nobody wants a device without a phone in it	01:16
Mousey	but the OS is BEGGING to be on bigger, awesomer, geekier hardware	01:16
Mousey	i have a phone	01:16
Mousey	i NEED a tablet	01:16
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ali1234	everyone has a phone	01:17
Mousey	the n810 is the most perfect tablet i've ever used	01:17
a1mega	Shoot...I think I'm talkin' myself into an Iphone....ha ha ha!	01:17
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Mousey	a1mega: avoid it at all costs	01:17
ali1234	when you try to sell them a tablet, they say "why would i want to carry two devices?"	01:17
Mousey	ali1234: that's the masses for ya	01:17
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ali1234	no, that's people like me	01:17
javispedro	and we don't care about them.	01:17
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Mousey	all i'm saying is Maemo is a absoultely wonderful distro	01:17
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Mousey	i can't wait til the hardware compares	01:17
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a1mega	Mousey: u right. I luv my 800's multitasking ability....just not enough apps to multitask. :)	01:18
javispedro	sigh.	01:18
Mousey	a1mega: there are 10s of 1000s of apps for Maemo	01:18
uhsf	when the hardware compares, i will run full blown arch linux and forget about maemo.	01:18
ali1234	not enough apps because there's virtually nothing a tablet is good for	01:19
Mousey	that -you- can think of	01:19
ali1234	if you want to seriously get anything done you need a smartbook at the very least	01:19
javispedro	uhsf: the hardware is already enough. screen size is not, and will never be.	01:19
Mousey	i disagree	01:19
a1mega	But I cant find one darn twitter app that allows replies. Shees!	01:19
Mousey	with just the n810 i can manage 100 machines without having to get up from the sofa	01:19
Mousey	and i can do it faster with an n810 than i can with a whole notebook or even netbook	01:19
Mousey	the n810 is the perfect system administration tool	01:20
ali1234	so what? i can do that on n900 too, and it fits in my pocket for when i do want to get up from the sofa	01:20
Mousey	like the n810	01:20
Mousey	only less keys	01:20
a1mega	Mousey...u gotta be a techy. :)	01:20
GeneralAntilles	a1mega, Mauku	01:20
ali1234	no, the n810 is way to big to fit in my pockets	01:20
Mousey	the n810 is very very techy	01:20
Mousey	and maemo fits is very very well	01:20
Mousey	trying to make it appeal to less is a mistake.	01:20
uhsf	maemo.org/ is so slow.	01:21
a1mega	Gen: I use it and can't find 'reply'....:(	01:21
GeneralAntilles	uhsf, massive server overload.	01:21
ali1234	Mousey: see, the problem with the n810 is i can't use it outside my house	01:21
Mousey	i wish i could install maemo on a kindle	01:21
Mousey	that would be epic	01:21
GeneralAntilles	Should be getting upgrades next month-ish.	01:21
javispedro	sigh. another slashdot article?	01:21
Mousey	ali1234: you should tether, like everyone else	01:21
a1mega	I would be afraid to recommend n810 non-techy friends.	01:22
ali1234	Mousey: no, that's stupid, because my phone already has a keyboard that's better than the n810 one. so why would i want to carry around that huge thing?	01:22
Mousey	because your phone doesn't have 800x480 and a kick ass suite of utilities	01:22
Mousey	and flash	01:22
a1mega	Ali: easy	01:22
a1mega	:)	01:22
Mousey	a1mega: i never did.. but the techy friends i've recommended it to all bought one, and love it	01:23
ali1234	Mousey: actually it does, because it is a n900	01:23
javispedro	so, why don't you carry an small phone then?	01:23
javispedro	one that doesn't make you look ridiculous while trying to place a call?	01:23
a1mega	Mousey: agree	01:23
achipa	uhsf: around this time it's the combined load of full NA + Eu	01:23
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Jaffa	Damn. Putting a TreeView inside a PannableArea breaks selection.	01:23
Mousey	i have a pre for that.. it's a nice linux box, but a fraction of the usefulness of my n810	01:23
javispedro	Jaffa: edit mode	01:23
a1mega	Javis: u r hurting my feelings. :)	01:24
javispedro	Jaffa: http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets#Normal_Vs._Edit_Mode	01:24
Macer	ugh	01:24
Macer	i can't figure it out	01:24
Macer	anybody here know how arbitration work in teh US?	01:24
Jaffa	javispedro: Ta. Oddly the mode only comes into play when I've added it to a HildonPannableArea, not when it's directly added to a GtkDialog	01:25
Macer	i am trying to find out if medical documents are allowed if the employee did not give a company consent to divulge medical testing to anybody else other than the company	01:25
Jaffa	javispedro: Ah, it says that above	01:25
* GeneralAntilles 's mother was resetting the switch instead of the router. . . .		01:25
javispedro	Jaffa: yep. I suggest you just do it "the maemo weird way" and use hildon_*_new() constructors and pannable areas always, else everything is "here be dragons".	01:26
a1mega	Well, I'm going out to fly my Zagi glider...u guys/gals have a wonderful weekend! :) (Hmm...wonder if I can use the N810 as the transmitter?) :)	01:26
Jaffa	javispedro: I'm using Python, but was trying to reconstruct what exactly was different between my app and a normal TreeView example	01:27
Jaffa	javispedro: Ta for that pointer	01:27
javispedro	well, good luck :)	01:27
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javispedro	autobuilder and garage share hardware?	01:31
GeneralAntilles	Yes :(	01:31
javispedro	so if it's under attack I better not send openttd gfx packages ... :P	01:32
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javispedro	what will happen when someone gets an N900, clicks on the Ovi Store icon, selects his phone model only to find most of the apps disappear in a nice web 2.0 javascripty animation?	01:39
uhsf	anyone using synergy on the n900? is there a synergy package somewhere?	01:40
pupnik_	check garage uhsf	01:40
pupnik_	might need a rebuild	01:40
pupnik_	javispedro what do you mean?	01:42
javispedro	that I still find people not realizing their 30 or so N-Gage games won't work in the N900.	01:42
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lcuk	n-gage is shutting down nxt year	01:44
lcuk	isnt it	01:44
javispedro	yep, just saw that on /.	01:44
lcuk	http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/10/30/2040230	01:44
lcuk	for context lol	01:44
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achipa	I'm wondering what's the easiest/official way of checking firmware version from python...	01:45
javispedro	why would you need to do that?	01:45
javispedro	just curious.	01:46
achipa	javispedro: need to do camera workarounds depending on fw version	01:46
javispedro	ah well.	01:46
achipa	javispedro: black band issue, etc etc	01:46
javispedro	since the device is not released I guess you can hope people'll upgrade.	01:46
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achipa	javispedro: yeah, but the problem is that an app won't get to extras unless it works for testers... and they use old firmware :)	01:47
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lcuk	do n810 testers ticks get counted in promotion	01:49
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GeneralAntilles	achipa, I wouldn't bother compensating for pre-release firmware.	01:53
achipa	GeneralAntilles: it's just a single parameter, not even a line, so I thought is there is an easy way to do it...	01:54
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GeneralAntilles	/etc/osso-software-version	01:55
javispedro	so, any app in fremantle uses ctrl+return for fullscreen?	01:55
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, lots?	01:56
javispedro	ah, so it's standard :P	01:56
javispedro	ta!	01:56
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achipa	GeneralAntilles: er... My N900 doesn't have that. Ooops ?	01:57
GeneralAntilles	Ah, could be deprecated.	01:57
achipa	grepped /etc/ for 41.10 to no avail	01:58
GeneralAntilles	Where's qwerty12 when you need him?	01:58
achipa	partying :)	01:58
javispedro	it's /etc/osso_software_version here	01:59
Jaffa	javispedro: RST38h's emulators do	01:59
VDVsx	javispedro, its in the system basically (ctrl+ret), probably you can remap it, but by default should work in any app	01:59
javispedro	VDVsx: ah. it sends F6?	02:00
VDVsx	javispedro, no need to code anything	02:00
javispedro	in gtk.	02:00
achipa	javispedro: which rev are you ? 41.10 here	02:00
javispedro	but I'm in openttd (SDL)	02:00
VDVsx	javispedro, maemo5 right ?	02:00
javispedro	achipa: RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_MR0 :'(	02:00
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achipa	javispedro: that's no mooN900	02:01
VDVsx	javispedro, should work by default, at least works in all the games that I've tested	02:01
javispedro	VDVsx: weird. do you have openttd installed?	02:01
pupnik_	nice	02:01
VDVsx	javispedro, no, gonna install	02:01
javispedro	it's a wopping 10 uncompressed MiB on the rootfs.	02:01
VDVsx	javispedro, hildon-desktop handles that stuff	02:01
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javispedro	that scares the hell out of me :S	02:02
javispedro	but It can't work that way, some apps refuse to be fullscreened I suppose.	02:03
VDVsx	humm ?	02:03
pupnik_	optify that	02:03
javispedro	yep pupnik_, i'm updating to latest openttd.	02:03
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javispedro	VDVsx: if hildon-desktop just resizes the window on Ctrl+Return it'll break some apps...	02:04
VDVsx	javispedro, ctr+ret is to go to the exposé mode ie. exit fullscreen	02:04
pupnik_	btw is there an idiot guji for managing debian project files (rules etc)	02:04
pupnik_	gui	02:04
javispedro	ah.	02:04
javispedro	bah, I need to try this. lemme see if the SDK implements that.	02:04
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VDVsx	javispedro, games should run in fullscreen IMO	02:05
javispedro	openttd is the kind of game that I prefer to run windowed. Because of long sessions :)	02:05
VDVsx	at least the PC games that don't have drop menu	02:05
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, thing it's a per-game thing.	02:05
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VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, yup :)	02:06
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javispedro	I can't get ctrl+intro or ctrl+return to do anything on sbox	02:08
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Jaffa	VDVsx: Ctrl-Enter isn't a global fullscreen	02:09
javispedro	sigh. I just typed packages.maemo.org again!	02:10
VDVsx	Jaffa, I'm talking about ctrl+ret only :)	02:10
VDVsx	sorry for the confusion	02:11
Macer	HAHHA	02:12
Macer	i'm watching castle	02:12
Macer	and the dude put on his halloween costume and he is wearing his firefly outfit	02:12
Macer	lol	02:12
javispedro	both ctrt-enter & ctrl-return seem to be swallowed by sbox.	02:13
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javispedro	I think I'll need to ask RST on this...	02:13
Macer	that was awesome	02:14
* achipa goes to sleep and hopes the autobuilder finishes before he wakes up		02:16
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Jaffa	VDVsx: Ah. That key combo which doesn't exist on device? ;-)	02:20
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VDVsx	Jaffa, well, return == Backspace	02:21
* javispedro 's head explodes		02:21
VDVsx	javispedro, want a screen of you game ?	02:22
javispedro	thanks, but no; unless you found out something weird.	02:22
VDVsx	javispedro, apart from the very small menus, no	02:23
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javispedro	if you want it to be a bit more finger friendly, enter settings and switch game resolution	02:23
Macer	http://moronail.net/img/904_EUROPE_Just_in_case_you_forgot_who_the_bitch_was_america	02:23
Macer	hahahaha	02:23
javispedro	10-foot mode will be the default in fremantle :D	02:23
SpeedEvil	you scroll by using the GPS	02:24
VDVsx	javispedro, got a nice black screen ;)	02:24
* javispedro sighs.		02:24
javispedro	ok, that was not supposed to happen lol	02:24
javispedro	after doing what?	02:24
VDVsx	javispedro, change resolution == black screen	02:25
VDVsx	and than I've to hit like 10 times the exit button :(	02:26
javispedro	the fun thing is that it's not changing resolution, but just starting to 2x video output.	02:26
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VDVsx	javispedro, fullscreen button works	02:26
javispedro	fullscreen gui button?	02:27
VDVsx	yes	02:27
javispedro	and you get video then? hum. that does not ring any bell...	02:27
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VDVsx	javispedro, video ?	02:28
javispedro	non black screen I mean	02:28
VDVsx	javispedro, with the FS button no	02:28
VDVsx	only if I try to change the resolution	02:29
VDVsx	javispedro, no sound ?	02:29
VDVsx	or I've to enable it	02:29
javispedro	no GPL soun	02:29
javispedro	d	02:29
VDVsx	oki	02:29
javispedro	must package it and edit GUI to let user choose between GPL/propietary sound sets	02:30
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* GeneralAntilles hits VDVsx.		02:31
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o VDVsx		02:32
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, coufh	02:32
VDVsx	lol	02:32
*** VDVsx sets mode: -o VDVsx		02:32
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jeremiah	Oh yeah, we have cloaks and stuff now.	02:42
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ifreq	any php guru awake? quite simple question	02:44
zash	ifreq: maybe	02:45
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ifreq	i have a script which outputs stuff as this: echo("Following link: " .$p_link. "\n");	02:45
ifreq	how I can accomplish that it also runs system cmd "mkdir /path/$p_link." ?	02:45
zash	mkdir("/path/$p_link")	02:46
zash	should work	02:46
ifreq	ah straight away	02:46
ifreq	ill test sec :)	02:46
zash	http://php.net/mkdir	02:47
Jaffa	Damnit. I want to go to bed, but first I want to upload a new version of Hermes, but first I have to wait for the damned SDK to re-install	02:48
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GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, yeah, I have that too. :P	02:49
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VDVsx	I know :)	02:50
* GeneralAntilles stacks chairs.		02:50
zash	GeneralAntilles: expecting steve ballmer?	02:50
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, party ?	02:51
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, sorry, the council type. :P	02:53
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, ah a conspirators gathering o_0 :P	02:55
ifreq	zash: thanks, need some finetuning but it will do its job	02:55
* GeneralAntilles plots.		02:55
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jeremiah	GeneralAntilles: Good mail about version numbers - I totally agree with you.	03:03
javispedro	still plotting? I though the conspiracy was all on the clear now.	03:04
* VDVsx builds super-cool-game_3425235snv3423423git34234-ubuntu78-maemo1000 :P		03:04
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, muhahaha!	03:04
jeremiah	infobot, smakc VDVsx	03:04
jeremiah	or smack rather	03:05
VDVsx	infobot, chase jeremiah	03:05
* infobot chases jeremiah		03:05
* jeremiah yikes!		03:05
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jeremiah	infobot, tease VDVsx	03:05
* infobot tickles VDVsx with a feather and makes VDVsx rotflmaopimp-ing		03:05
VDVsx	she has Alzheimer, i seems	03:05
javispedro	infobot, deploy primary weapon!	03:05
VDVsx	*it seems	03:05
zash	VDVsx: Depends: maemo >= 9000	03:05
javispedro	what's this version-thingie you're talking abou	03:06
jeremiah	javispedro: Well, there was a mail to maemo-developers	03:06
javispedro	ah, gonna check.	03:06
jeremiah	Saying, basically, that version numbers are getting a little out of hand	03:06
javispedro	heh.	03:06
* javispedro 's longest version string so far is 3.4.6+svn2191-0maemo1 "only"		03:06
javispedro	h-a-m should just hide them	03:07
jeremiah	Why do you have a version number (3.4.6) and a svn number?	03:07
javispedro	cause it's unreleased software evil grin	03:07
jeremiah	I mean, the svn _is_ the version number	03:07
jeremiah	heh	03:07
javispedro	but if they get to release 3.4.7 i want it to be >= 3.4.6+svnwhatever	03:08
zash	version, release, svn ..	03:08
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javispedro	this is a H-A-M issue	03:09
javispedro	just delete everything after the first "-"	03:09
javispedro	or "+"	03:09
pupnik_	bacon mmm	03:09
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javispedro	native Maemo apps should have the full version string without slashes either way.	03:09
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pupnik_	yup	03:11
pupnik_	javispedro coninues to issue correct statedments	03:11
javispedro	yes, nokia should probably pay me for continuosly stating the obvious on IRC ;)	03:11
pupnik_	me 2	03:12
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pupnik_	is there a nway to certify upstream packages as maemo-compat	03:13
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pupnik_	i.e. kwrite someday becomes buildable for maemo from upstream	03:14
pupnik_	e.g.	03:14
javispedro	it is buildable already.	03:15
javispedro	but you won't get the 10-foot mode.	03:16
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pupnik_	k	03:18
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javispedro	I mean, the issue is, save for very unportable stuff, not usually that "it does not build"	03:19
javispedro	but rather -- it's missing adequate .desktop file, etc.	03:19
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Woolly	general linuxy question: If I'm running an installer with curses over ssh, and my ssh session hangs, how can I regain the installer in a new ssh session?	03:27
jaem	Woolly: you probably can't	03:27
jaem	however	03:27
jaem	if you have the "screen" program installed on the machine running the SSH server, that will take care of that sort of problem	03:28
jaem	as well as being generally useful	03:28
jaem	I'll find you a link	03:28
Woolly	no screen unfortunately :(	03:28
jaem	oh	03:28
jaem	what are you running on the server?	03:28
jaem	and which installer is it?	03:28
Woolly	I'm installing Debian Lenny on my NSLU2. 3 hours later, I move the cable and the network falls over.	03:29
Woolly	Frick :(	03:29
jaem	>_<	03:29
jaem	hmm	03:29
jaem	I've never installed Debian, but I've seen derivatives of one of their old installers	03:29
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jaem	you probably could resume it, but it would probably be easier to restart, IMO	03:30
jaem	unless they have resuming built in these days	03:30
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Woolly	that's a pain in the titties. oh well, I'll leave it running overnight (Y)	03:30
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Woolly	thanks anyway though jaem	03:31
jaem	you're welcome :)	03:31
jaem	that's actually one of the things I like about the Arch installer...	03:31
jaem	it doesn't force any flow of operation on you, aside from the logical order of things (which you take care of yourself)	03:32
Woolly	yeah	03:32
jaem	want to kill the installer and mess with some stuff manually, and then jump back to where you were? sure	03:32
jaem	:)	03:32
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Neostrider	hello folks	03:43
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Neostrider	anyone from Mer online?	03:44
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jaem	Neostrider, #mer	03:46
Neostrider	oh..thanks	03:47
jaem	no problem	03:47
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Neostrider	hey lcuk, are you in there?	03:51
lcuk	no	03:51
Neostrider	sorry =-P	03:52
lcuk	whats up	03:53
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Neostrider	are you behind liqbase, right?	03:54
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* lcuk nods		03:54
Neostrider	cool	03:54
Neostrider	its a bitmap only thing, right?	03:54
lcuk	ish	03:56
Neostrider	hum...does it work with N770?	03:58
lcuk	Neostrider, hows your driller clone coming on	03:58
Neostrider	I've actually moved on (lost the source code)	03:59
lcuk	and have you tested it on fremantle device	03:59
Neostrider	but I've released a new game this week	03:59
Neostrider	http://batterypoweredgames.blogspot.com/2009/10/angstron-2-droid-hunter-final-release.html	03:59
lcuk	but it was only a month ago!	03:59
Neostrider	humm?	03:59
Neostrider	the driller clone was a project from a year ago!	04:00
lcuk	driller clone	04:00
lcuk	lol its the same looking game even now	04:00
Neostrider	it ran on 770 too slowly	04:00
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Neostrider	(I guess you did some confusion =-P )	04:00
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Neostrider	lcuk: this was the driller clone: http://corporatedrones.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/27-02-09_2254.jpg?w=640&h=480	04:02
jaem	hrm	04:03
lcuk	http://retrogameretrospective.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/driller-zx-spectrum/	04:03
lcuk	there is even a gameplay video	04:03
jaem	can anyone suggest a minimal but easy-to-use serial terminal that I could compile for Diablo?	04:03
lcuk	Neostrider, it is with the greatest respect i call it a driller clone :)	04:03
Neostrider	I do have driller here somewere	04:03
lcuk	i always remember it in color!	04:03
lcuk	i forgot it was b&w	04:03
lcuk	it renders about the same speed as a kindle refresh (the original i mean)	04:04
Neostrider	yeah...kind of hard to play	04:04
lcuk	i used to play for hours	04:04
Neostrider	(btw, my game clone also ran at that speed, mostly the code was very unoptimized)	04:05
lcuk	you get used to it lol	04:05
lcuk	lol Neostrider	04:05
Neostrider	a better picture: http://corporatedrones.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/screenshot-riddler.png	04:05
lcuk	wicked	04:05
Neostrider	and thats the reason I want to ask you how to optimize my code for OMAP1710	04:05
Neostrider	and if this optimizations would work for the other devices	04:05
lcuk	small, light and tight	04:06
lcuk	dont try to break out of c	04:06
lcuk	mostly you dont need to	04:06
Neostrider	but do you have to do anything special ?	04:07
Neostrider	use any special SDK?	04:07
lcuk	depends what matters, i had to scale up the walls from the outside	04:07
lcuk	which causes its own issues	04:07
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Neostrider	(btw, have you got the sponsoring you were looking for?)	04:10
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Neostrider	wow...this driller article sure brings me some memories	04:14
Neostrider	(ok, Im too young and too far from UK to have played it on a real spectrum, but I spent a good deal of my teenagehood playing with 3D constructor kit)	04:15
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lcuk	3d cons kit was good	04:19
lcuk	i remember when i got driller, i dropped the box	04:19
lcuk	it had a dent in the coner forever	04:19
lcuk	corner	04:19
Neostrider	cassetes on a speccy?	04:20
lcuk	yeah	04:20
Neostrider	thats something I dont like about those days of digital distribution	04:20
Neostrider	I like to look at the box	04:20
Neostrider	its kind of a foreplay	04:21
Neostrider	take the box of Doom, for example	04:21
lcuk	back then, the box contained everything you needed for the life of the product	04:21
Neostrider	it looks amazing and MUCH better than the real game title screen	04:21
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Neostrider	heck, there was a "like of the product" concept	04:21
Neostrider	now games are "disposable"	04:22
Neostrider	(my Mer download just finished!)	04:22
lcuk	development was focued because the number of toolkits were limited	04:22
Neostrider	every processor cycle mattered	04:23
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Neostrider	and not only in terms of speed, but in quality of content	04:23
Neostrider	if the game is slow, you will sure notice poor drawn graphics	04:23
SpeedEvil	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ_7209iiu4&feature=related	04:23
SpeedEvil	oooh - fairlight	04:23
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Neostrider	are you guys into Elite?	04:24
SpeedEvil	Not recently. :)	04:25
GeneralAntilles	Oolite!	04:25
Neostrider	Oolite is really good, but Im more into Elite Plus	04:25
Neostrider	(also becouse I can run it on my cellphone with DosBOX)	04:25
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Neostrider	but to be fair, its Frontier that got me hooked	04:26
Jaffa	Oolite rocks.	04:27
Jaffa	Frontier's play model sounded so good, but was so boring & frustrating IRL (IME)	04:27
Neostrider	funny is that Oolite is much better that Vega Strike, even being so smaller	04:28
Neostrider	Frontier II with the hacked engine is really good. You should try the hacked engine	04:28
Neostrider	you can use the physics model from Elite in it	04:29
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pupnik_	pictre of original "pupnik" on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350226655678	04:32
* Jaffa beds		04:33
Neostrider	I didnt know there was other pupnik	04:33
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frals	nice feature on the forum, i got sent a pm but am not allowed to respond to it... :D	04:52
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GeneralAntilles	frals, how many posts?	04:54
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frals	GeneralAntilles: i got 106	06:00
frals	the user who sent the PM didnt have receiving PM from other members allowed in profile or something like that :)	06:00
GeneralAntilles	Ah	06:02
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pupnik_	suddenly i really think mer/maemo5 needs to be on 5"-8" superslim coffeetable device, for 3-4OO bucks	06:17
pupnik_	like a pphoto stand you pick up and start using	06:18
pupnik_	maybe take the n900 boards with broken cell radios for it	06:19
pupnik_	very slim, elegant, appliance-like	06:19
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GeneralAntilles	I'm not totally buying the usecase for something like that	06:20
GeneralAntilles	90% of the time I'd use that I have my N900 with me anyway.	06:20
pupnik_	coffeetablle, dining table	06:20
pupnik_	the place where family meets	06:20
pupnik_	can have tablet	06:20
pupnik_	phone too small for old eyes - srsly	06:20
pupnik_	over 50 crowd is a market	06:21
pupnik_	and if they really can use a device - if internet experience is real good - they will someday be buying these things	06:22
pupnik_	gahrohntueed	06:22
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RST38h	moo?	08:50
pupnik_	moo	08:51
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johnx	m00f! m00f!	08:51
RST38h	Ah, nice to see everyone home =)	08:52
RST38h	Hmm... Looks like Apple BT keyboard owners are out of luck with N900, and I am one of them =(	08:53
AstralStorm	mmmmh	08:57
AstralStorm	new pidgin in extras-devel is correctly hildonized	08:57
AstralStorm	:)	08:57
AstralStorm	no more tray crashing hildon-desktop	08:57
Xisdibik	RST38h: maybe that will get you to stop using Apple? :D	08:58
RST38h	Nix has been doing his thing =)	08:58
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RST38h	Xisdibikk: Funnily, it is the only piece of Apple hw I have ever owned	09:07
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_Pete_	AstralStorm: isnt messaging-ui enough for you?	09:13
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RST38h	Any x86 assembly gurus?	09:56
RST38h	Need a quick way to test memory location for !=0	09:56
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wnd	load to register, branch if zero-flag is down? (I don't know x86)	09:58
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dmj726	Is scratchbox usually laggy?	10:18
johnx	well, do you mean laggy or slow?	10:19
dmj726	low frame rate	10:19
johnx	so you're running the desktop inside of xephyr?	10:19
dmj726	things open and actions happen at a reasonable rate	10:19
dmj726	yes	10:19
dmj726	in xephyr	10:19
dmj726	I have nvidia graphics	10:20
johnx	hmm, I don't actually know.	10:20
dmj726	10 fps or so	10:21
_Pete_	is the i386-target working how well?	10:22
_Pete_	for me dropped that for long ago	10:22
_Pete_	since almost nothing works there as expected	10:22
dmj726	it's the x86 one	10:23
_Pete_	yes	10:23
_Pete_	I use always arm target	10:23
_Pete_	and then scp things to device to test	10:23
dmj726	does it run better in scratchbox?	10:23
_Pete_	no	10:24
dmj726	do you have an n900?	10:24
_Pete_	yes	10:24
dmj726	ah...have a spare?	10:25
_Pete_	unfortunatelly no	10:25
dmj726	Nokia is torturing me with a lack of released devices.	10:25
_Pete_	:(	10:26
dmj726	My first "hands on" was today with the scratchbox version.	10:26
_Pete_	hmm right	10:27
dmj726	how do you bring up the on screen keyboard?	10:27
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_Pete_	on device it's pressing Sym key	10:28
_Pete_	dont know about scratchbox	10:28
johnx	in scratchbox you might be able to tweak your gconf settings to make it think the slide is closed or the keyboard isn't present	10:28
dmj726	oh does it come up automatically if the device is closed when you click on text fields?	10:29
johnx	yeah	10:29
dmj726	okay, that's fine	10:30
_Pete_	seems like it doesnt	10:30
johnx	have to enable it in settings	10:30
_Pete_	johnx: what setting is that?	10:30
johnx	control panel -> ...	10:31
johnx	dunno. n900 is charging by my bed	10:31
_Pete_	heh, just got own n900 for true testing week ago	10:32
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_Pete_	every day found something new on that	10:32
dmj726	settings_>text input	10:32
dmj726	->use virtual keyboard	10:32
dmj726	I like this UI	10:37
dmj726	Though, please tell me it's far more smooth on the actual device?	10:39
johnx	yes	10:40
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dmj726	Has anyone used GNOME Shell at all?	11:00
dmj726	I find a lot of the UI paradigms similar	11:02
RST38h	wnd: I want one instruction =)	11:07
RST38h	and no, loading from memory does not set any flags on x86	11:07
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ShadowJK	whoah, elite discussion earlier	11:23
RST38h	?	11:24
ShadowJK	the game	11:24
lbt	not sure it classes as a discussion...	11:25
* RST38h goes to mgedmin's site to search		11:25
lbt	"dood....do you like Elite?" ... "no"	11:25
ShadowJK	lbt: I noticed that afterwards	11:26
dmj726	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7K3tNvBFQE	11:26
lbt	elite on N900 using accelerometers...	11:26
lbt	docking...	11:26
RST38h	lbt: Possible now.	11:26
RST38h	Like right now	11:26
lbt	.install ?	11:27
RST38h	Install Speccy from Extras-Testing	11:27
dmj726	video of GNOME Shell	11:27
RST38h	Or, alternatively, install iNES from the same place. Both have Elite	11:27
ShadowJK	all attempts to write sequels beyond ffe by anyone has turned into eternity projects that eventually stalled :-)	11:27
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RST38h	ShadowJK: "X: Beyonf the Frontier"	11:27
RST38h	beyond	11:27
ShadowJK	The technology was kinda amazing for the time, and has aspects not replicated by any other games so far afaik	11:28
RST38h	That would probably be an overstatement	11:29
RST38h	But it is cool nevertheless. Even now. Anyone willing to port Oolite?	11:29
SpeedEvil	chookie egg!	11:30
ShadowJK	like the seaemless 3D engine giving a gamespace of about 1ly but still enough precision to have big ben showing the correct time in London if you flew down to surface :-)	11:30
lbt	Imogen	11:30
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RST38h	ShadowJK: That is because of the Web of course, regular optical links routed through farcaster portals =)	11:30
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ShadowJK	There's a guy working on an iphone space sim thingy. He has forced himself to limit the scope of the project so that he'll actually finish it this time.	11:31
ShadowJK	It	11:31
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RST38h	Not interested in iPhone apps though...	11:31
RST38h	Whatever they do for iPhone stays on iPhone, so who cares...	11:32
ShadowJK	he's done linux ports before :-)	11:32
dmj726	iphone emulator anyone :P	11:32
RST38h	ShadowJK: slightly increases the chances of a port, but not by much	11:33
ShadowJK	I think the big question is whether it will be finished at all	11:33
AstralStorm	RST38h, unless it heavily uses iPawn apis... entirely possible	11:33
RST38h	Oolite appears to be finished, why not port it?	11:33
ShadowJK	despite the supposedly limited scope, he's modeling starsystem formation through accretion disc simulation, and using public domain Nasa data for galaxy shape and such :-)	11:34
RST38h	AStorm: Yea, but I am guess it is	11:34
RST38h	guessing	11:34
AstralStorm	unlikely	11:35
AstralStorm	even if it's ObjC	11:35
RST38h	Hmm...37MB+ source code	11:35
RST38h	Most of it is probably data anyway though	11:35
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ShadowJK	c++ with objc glue to interface iphone..	11:36
AstralStorm	haha	11:36
* RST38h is actually looking for wazd		11:36
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AstralStorm	glue to access iPhone is lol	11:37
ShadowJK	oh, oolite is objc, yeah.. it needs GNUStep shit	11:37
ShadowJK	or needed, last time I checked	11:37
RST38h	Urgh	11:37
AstralStorm	ok, so oolite can diaf	11:37
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RST38h	Still needs it judging from their source download page	11:37
ShadowJK	It ran at 2fps on my P3-733MHz, iirc.	11:37
AstralStorm	no	11:37
AstralStorm	it needs rewriting the glue	11:37
RST38h	Shadow: Worked fine for me, last time I checked	11:38
ShadowJK	Profiler showed 80% of CPU time spent in various accessor functions in the collision detection algorithm	11:38
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* RST38h successfully fixed CLRQ, DIVB, DIVW, and DIVL in the meanwhile =)		11:38
ShadowJK	ship[x].getposition() and similar eating most CPU... god bless OO languages	11:38
RST38h	aren't these supposed to be inlined?	11:39
ShadowJK	haha	11:39
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ShadowJK	The only inlining you can trust is asm{}	11:39
RST38h	Hmmmm	11:39
RST38h	Something does not add up here	11:39
* ShadowJK wonders if N900's youtube player is nonsucky enough to playback live starcraft		11:40
ShadowJK	flash player, not youtube player...	11:40
dmj726	#Robot101 are there plans to support more IM protocols in the Maemo messenger?	11:44
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dmj726	can't seem to install software on the app manager	11:49
zaheer_	the flash player is slow with high bitrate/res vp6 like on bbc iplayer	11:49
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zaheer_	but is fine with h264	11:50
* ShadowJK wonders what livestream uses		11:50
SafPlusPlus	Playing some starcraft videos from youtube in MicroB seems smooth enough. to me.	11:50
ShadowJK	h264 would be on dsp, vp6 most likely not, and most likely not on neon either	11:50
zaheer_	yep	11:51
zaheer_	wow there seems to be a major update today	11:52
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SafPlusPlus	Makes sense to update some stuff for the testing sprint...	11:53
zaheer_	my n900 wants to update X and a whole load of other stuff	11:53
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ShadowJK	Does anyone know if bluetooth trackballs exist?	11:54
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SafPlusPlus	Hehe... I pretty much broke the gui for the updates... Just using the commondline for now...	11:54
ShadowJK	or something with similar usefulness..	11:54
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dmj726	Scratchbox doesn't seem to have all the apps that the device will?	11:55
Captain_Picard	http://apina.biz/22135.jpg	11:57
ShadowJK	aw, livestream seems to use vp6 and/or sorenson (a modified h263?)	11:58
RST38h	Shadow: Google to the rescue: http://the-gadgeteer.com/2006/01/19/the_ball_bluetooth_wireless_trackball/	11:59
ShadowJK	ta	12:00
RST38h	(and you should thank Steve Jobs because it would never be manufactured without him)	12:01
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ShadowJK	now if I could find it sold somewhere	12:04
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ShadowJK	heh, "trackball" search on DX returns half a page of blackberry spare parts	12:09
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zaheer_	has anyone done the apt-get upgrade bringing in all the new packages?	12:21
zaheer_	i'm a bit concerned seeing kernel xserver stuff modest etc.	12:21
RST38h	weird: MOVQ is broken	12:21
RST38h	zaheer: I would strongly suggest against it at least on n900	12:21
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* SafPlusPlus is tempted to try...		12:24
RST38h	zaheer: You can do it on N810/N800, but only if you are sure all your enabled repos are good	12:25
SafPlusPlus	But I have nothing to flash the device with if it goes horibly wrong...	12:25
RST38h	Don't	12:25
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SpeedEvil	DX is awesome. And a bit silly.	12:27
qwerty12	SafPlusPlus: Even if you update some of the packages, it'll force the metapackage keeping track of the system version to be uninstalled which means you wont recieve an "official" notification for when Nokia do push out an update via SSU	12:27
homeasvs	what's the most recent scratchbox install to use for n800 work ?	12:27
SafPlusPlus	qwerty12: I broke that already... :P	12:28
homeasvs	currently using maemo-scratchbox-install_4.1.2.sh but not sure if that's too new or not	12:28
homeasvs	or if there is a newer maybe	12:28
qwerty12	SafPlusPlus: Oh... :p	12:28
* qwerty12 wonders if we should kidnap and interrogate Daniel the next time he passes through #maemo...		12:29
SafPlusPlus	I think I broke it when setting a password for either root or user... Since the ssu log shows a password prompt before it fails.	12:30
SafPlusPlus	(or tinkering with sudoers)	12:30
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* lcuk2 finally makes it to irc		13:03
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*** VDVsx changes topic to "Welcome Stskeeps, our new distmaster for maemo.org! http://tinyurl.com/yzwxvoq \| http://maemo.org \| http://maemo.nokia.com \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| Extras-testing Marathon Today @ #maemo-testing - http://tinyurl.com/yg3z4ce"		13:12
ShadowJK	I, for one, welcome our new overlord	13:14
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qwerty12	VDVsx: Thank God I have TinyURL's preview service turned on. When I saw it was taking me to your site...	13:14
VDVsx	qwerty12, ahahah :P	13:15
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wazd	heya all	13:16
Stskeeps	heya wazd	13:16
VDVsx	wazd, hey	13:16
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cigno	hi al	13:17
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lcuk2	wazd, there is a thread on tmo about advertising and sponsorship which you might have a view on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33742	13:23
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wazd_	eeek, take 2, hello all! :D	13:27
lcuk2	pupnik_, i like your thinking :)	13:27
* achipa_zzz establishes new personal autobuilder record, 5h 13min		13:28
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VDVsx	wazd_, wb :)	13:28
lcuk2	lol wazd_ the army got you	13:28
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lcuk2	hi VDVsx	13:28
wazd_	lcuk2: nope :)	13:28
VDVsx	lcuk2, morning :)	13:28
lcuk2	achipa, 5 hours to get through autobuilder, or 5 hours to work out how to get to autobuilder?	13:29
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lcuk2	Stskeeps, are there any plans to get ovi store on Mer?	13:30
achipa	lcuk2: former, luckily. But the fact repositories were broken to the latter amount quite significantly :(	13:30
lcuk2	lol	13:30
achipa	s/repositories/repository priorities/	13:30
infobot	achipa meant: lcuk2: former, luckily. But the fact repository priorities were broken to the latter amount quite significantly :(	13:30
lcuk2	i have this trouble every time, but for different reason	13:30
achipa	feels kind of like ancient computing, with punch cards and scheduled runs	13:32
achipa	you get one shot per day, and if you oopsed up, see you next day :)	13:32
lcuk2	lol achipa not too far away	13:32
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lcuk2	i have to manually schedule uploads to the autobuilder	13:32
lopz	hi	13:32
lcuk2	i have to push library, then if it works about 2 hours later push the next dependent apps, then if they work i can push the playground about 2 hours later too	13:33
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lcuk2	if i do them all sequentially in bulk, even if they pass, when the next one goes it fails dependencies because the first item hasnt entered the repository	13:34
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lcuk2	haha http://hackaday.com/2009/10/30/single-servo-robot/	13:36
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* SpeedEvil sighs at pointless use of arduino.		13:40
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cheshair	hi! i managed to set up the maemo sdk and have had a few tests with the actractive sdk ui. then i added extras-testing repos and installed open-ssh-client. the point is: no new icon is appeared on my sdk ui desktop so how can i use ssh? am i supposed to have previously installed some sort of xterm?	13:44
RST38h	You are supposed to have XTerm as part of the default Maemo5 system distro	13:46
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RST38h	What have you installed the SDK for, anyway?	13:47
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achipa	just wondering, does an app get to extras automatically when it reaches 10 votes or do I have to promote it ?	13:48
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cvandonderen	Hi, I did apt-get upgrade on my N900 about an hour, 45 minutes ago with the SDK and extras-testing and extras-devel repo's enabled	13:49
cvandonderen	it upgraded the kernel and all	13:49
cvandonderen	and npow the device is bricked	13:49
cvandonderen	is there a firmware + flasher software available already?	13:49
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cheshair	RST38h: hi, how can i access xterm from inside the sdk ui?	13:51
cheshair	RST38h: hi installed the sdk to develop new apps	13:51
cheshair	s/hi/i	13:51
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VDVsx	achipa, I saw apps with 15 votes there, probably the promotion only runs once per day	13:52
RST38h	You should be able to click on the left top corner, get the apps menu, click on "More" and find XTerm there	13:52
RST38h	VDVsx: You have to promote manually once you get enough votes	13:53
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VDVsx	RST38h, the option appear there ?	13:53
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RST38h	yes	13:55
cvandonderen	nielsslot: waah, I just bricked my N900	13:55
nielsslot	cvandonderen: how did you manage that?	13:55
cheshair	RST38h: thru my "more" icon i only get file-manager and rss-manager	13:56
cvandonderen	nielsslot: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade	13:56
cvandonderen	;-)	13:56
RST38h	then apt-get install osso-xterm	13:56
nielsslot	cvandonderen: didn't know it's that easy these days..	13:56
cvandonderen	it upgraded all sorts of stuff and now I see the Nokia logo, the dots coming after that and then it shutdwons again...	13:56
cvandonderen	so, no phone for me today :-P	13:56
RST38h	Haven't you been warned?	13:57
cvandonderen	RST38h: ?	13:57
RST38h	ok, you haven't	13:57
VDVsx	84 packages in testing, sweet :)	13:57
cvandonderen	is the flasher already available?	13:57
cvandonderen	and some firmware image	13:58
cvandonderen	otherwise I'm off to buy some prepaid phone thingy...	13:58
barisione	any italian using the n900 with vodafone italia?	13:58
Mek	the flasher is already available for quite some time I think; but no images	13:58
RST38h	cvandonderen: You will have to catch some Nokian here and plead for an image	13:59
pupnik_	images come when an official update is avail after release, right?	13:59
cheshair	RST38h: it works great, thank you very much!	13:59
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lcuk2	pupnik_, have you spoken to anyone @nokia about your problem	14:01
cvandonderen	Mek: where can I find the Flasher then?	14:02
pupnik_	yes lcuk2 . flasher 3.5-beta is online	14:02
cheshair	i managed to download new apps from inside the sdk ui thanks to the red pill trick. do i have to enable networking in such a way every time i restart the sdk ui?	14:02
Mek	cvandonderen: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/maemo_flasher-3-5_tool_final_for_fremantle_and_diablo_released/ I think	14:02
RST38h	pupnik: I am pretty sure that someone from Nokia should be able to give him the 41.10 image to flash	14:02
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RST38h	pupnik: as long as he does not pass it around of course	14:03
pupnik_	sounds possible to me too	14:03
pupnik_	but maybe not	14:03
lcuk2	pupnik_, i also meant asking about how to cure your problem	14:03
pupnik_	i await instructions	14:04
VDVsx	pupnik_, you've your device bricked ?	14:04
pupnik_	yes, i was one of the first	14:04
pupnik_	weee	14:05
lcuk2	no, i think the first occured @ amsterdam lol	14:05
pupnik_	right	14:05
lcuk2	luckily there were people on hand tho lol	14:05
lcuk2	you have a different issue	14:05
VDVsx	pupnik_, still, OMG, did you asked a nokian for an image ?	14:05
pupnik_	i dunno, maybe my battery is broken	14:06
cvandonderen	hmm, so prepaid thingy it is then :'(	14:07
pupnik_	as well	14:07
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Jaffa	Morning, all	14:10
* Jaffa wonders how well maemo.org is going to stand up to a -testing marathon.		14:10
Jaffa	X-Fade: ping	14:10
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cvandonderen	well, if doing a package upgrade bricks the devices the testing wil lbe over pretty soon ;-)	14:11
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Mek	no, installing packages from the SDK on the device bricks it	14:11
cvandonderen	aah	14:11
cvandonderen	so that is the problem :'(	14:12
cvandonderen	blegh	14:12
Jaffa	X-Fade: I seem to have voted twice on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/moobox/1.0/ Race condition?	14:12
cvandonderen	How confirmed is that Nov. 9 release date now and will the firmware image be released then?	14:15
cvandonderen	two weeks without phone I can manage	14:15
cheshair	what's the difference between installing apps via "fakeroot apt-get" on scratchbox or directly from the app manager inside the sdk ui?	14:16
RST38h	Jaffa,X-Fade: Gentlemen, have you noticed that App Manager now shows TWO buttons labelled Other	14:16
nielsslot	cvandonderen: what did you do with your black berry?	14:16
RST38h	Is it some minor problem with the repo, or should I file a bug?	14:16
cvandonderen	nielsslot: sold it to another guy	14:16
cvandonderen	for a neat BT keyboard to hack on my N900	14:16
cvandonderen	:P	14:16
javispedro	cheshair: apt-get is much more feature complete as an installer and can handle more complex "installation requests". not to say that app manager hides most packages.	14:17
javispedro	btw, morning :)	14:17
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RST38h	ehlo javis	14:18
cheshair	javispedro: i see. morning. i added the extras-testing repo on the app manager, however it is missing on the scratchbox sources.list... is it ok?	14:19
javispedro	cheshair: yep, adding it to app mgr will add it to a sources.list.d file	14:19
Jaffa	RST38h: Bug's been raised at summit.	14:20
cheshair	javispedro: ah! i see! that's real precious help	14:21
RST38h	Jaffa: ok, so it is known?	14:21
Jaffa	VDVsx: supertux latest in -etsting diesn't work :(	14:21
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lcuk2	oh no! supertux rox	14:21
VDVsx	Jaffa, there a new one there	14:22
VDVsx	*there's	14:22
VDVsx	Jaffa, I removed all the maemo-optify magic, now everything is under /opt	14:23
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RST38h	way to go	14:23
javispedro	VDVsx: you're using /opt/maemo, or are using /opt/supertux?	14:24
VDVsx	/opt/supertux	14:24
javispedro	yeah.	14:24
RST38h	the maemo-optify stuff is scary like hell	14:24
javispedro	:) I'm considering doing the same, /opt/openttd/bin and /opt/openttd/"data?"	14:24
RST38h	but /opt/<product> is sane	14:25
javispedro	cause share /opt/openttd/share/openttd looks ... awful.	14:25
RST38h	javis: I still place binaries into /usr/bin	14:25
javispedro	RST38h: this is a 4 MiB binary.	14:25
RST38h	javis: My binaries are relatively small, so no sweat there	14:25
RST38h	Oh	14:25
RST38h	4MB will have to go into opt	14:25
javispedro	the dosbox one is nearly 10... the wonders of C++	14:25
VDVsx	in supertux the optify tool let 1.6mb of small files under /usr :(	14:25
RST38h	probably has nothing to do with C++	14:25
* RST38h has some guesses of why dosbox is 10MB		14:26
javispedro	wait. it's 2 MiB :)	14:26
RST38h	see? wonders of not binary numbering =)	14:26
javispedro	and openttd is 2.5 MiB	14:26
VDVsx	Jaffa, damn you, update the package :P	14:26
javispedro	never trust my long-term memory :)	14:27
RST38h	afaik, they are stored compressed when in /	14:27
RST38h	so it is even less there	14:27
javispedro	yep	14:27
VDVsx	Jaffa, you are using version 10 and voted in version 11 :(	14:27
javispedro	vgba is 371 KiB. already smaller than drnoksnes, which is 913 KiB :)	14:27
RST38h	Less cruft :)	14:28
javispedro	and drnoksnes is C++	14:28
RST38h	SlideRule is C++, check it	14:28
javispedro	well, the "C++ as a better C" subset	14:28
javispedro	not classes and anything like that.	14:28
RST38h	that is what I use	14:29
Jaffa	VDVsx: I' sure I checked!	14:29
RST38h	and yes, I do use classes	14:29
* RST38h stays away from exceptions, templates, and STL though		14:29
VDVsx	Jaffa, humm ? it works here	14:30
javispedro	VDVsx: revenge for telling me openttd didn't work yesterday!	14:30
javispedro	hehe	14:30
Jaffa	VDVsx: Ah, no. apt-cache policy says 10. Sorry, will unbote	14:30
javispedro	ah yes, this reminds me	14:30
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javispedro	RST38h: do you handle Ctrl+Return keypress for fullscreen?	14:31
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javispedro	I am still wondering if hildon-desktop handles that keypress and does anything weird with it. I don't get any events while pressing Ctrl+Enter or Ctrl+Return in sbox.	14:32
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* Jaffa is pissed off that microb isn't saving cookie for maemo.org		14:32
VDVsx	javispedro, and ctrl+backspace ?	14:34
VDVsx	in sbox^	14:34
Jaffa	Gah, can't unvote or even thumbs up. Disaster.	14:34
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zaheer_	Jaffa, ouch	14:35
qwerty12_N810	Jaffa: You bad, bad person.	14:35
* Jaffa will now remove himself from maemo.org/packages		14:36
javispedro	banished for life!	14:36
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Jaffa	I'm having another talk break anyway	14:37
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* qwerty12_N810 doesn't mind Talk; it's -users that he detested		14:37
cheshair	each time i want to install apps thru the app manager i need to go thru the red pill trick and enable "assume net connection". is it normal?	14:38
RST38h	javis: I am handling it, there is nothing weird about it	14:38
RST38h	qwerty: because -users come to your mailbox and tmo you can disregard?	14:38
qwerty12_N810	RST38h: That, and people like wolfmane	14:39
RST38h	not familiar with him	14:39
javispedro	RST38h: I'll have to blindly assume it sends the Return keysym with CtrlLeft or CtrlRight modifier and just act like if received the F6 key?	14:39
RST38h	javis: I handle Ctrl and Return GDK_* events separately	14:39
RST38h	javis: Because some app running under EMUlib may want Ctrl for fire button or something	14:40
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javispedro	ah	14:40
RST38h	but otherwise, yes, as you said	14:40
javispedro	I though sticky keys or something like that	14:40
RST38h	never trust the system to process your input	14:41
RST38h	output too, most of the time =(	14:42
* javispedro types if ((ev.key.keysym.mod & (KMOD_CTRL)) && (ev.key.keysym.sym == SDLK_RETURN)) { and hopes for the best		14:42
* RST38h has got very nice old skool "LCD" display for the music player playlist		14:42
RST38h	SlideRule-like. Now, just need to persuade wazd to do the static artwork =)	14:43
javispedro	heh.	14:43
RST38h	javis: Do keep in mind that there is _ENTER and there is _RETURN	14:43
javispedro	yeah, actually KP_ENTER	14:43
javispedro	and the right one is?	14:43
javispedro	iirc on N810 d-pad center key sent RETURN, the "other one" sent KP_ENTER	14:44
RST38h	You want GDK_KP_Enter	14:44
javispedro	ah, thanks	14:44
RST38h	yes, that useful center key was RETURN	14:44
RST38h	and the problem is that BT keyboards report their ENTER key as RETURN too =(	14:44
RST38h	So, if you enable dpad center, it gets pressed accidentally. If you disable it, BT keyboards stop working rightr	14:45
javispedro	that's why you add remappable controls :)	14:46
javispedro	well, save for openttd. Which I'm hardcoding :P	14:46
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VDVsx	marathon 'rules' : http://maemo.pastebin.com/m5e841fb9 (patches and language patches are welcome :P)	14:46
RST38h	VDVsx,javispedro: Could you go and vote for my stuff ahead of the marathon? I guess you have at least some of it installed anyway	14:47
javispedro	RST38h: idonthaveann900	14:47
RST38h	oh. right.	14:47
RST38h	sorry :(	14:48
qwerty12_N810	VDVsx: Here's a rule for ya:	14:48
qwerty12_N810	+ - No voting up of Valerio Valerio's stuff.	14:48
VDVsx	RST38h, I don't :(	14:48
RST38h	VDVsx: Well, it is all in -Testing.	14:48
* VDVsx hits qwerty12_N810		14:48
* RST38h goes to vote up Valerio's stuff		14:48
qwerty12_N810	VDVsx: It could've been worse: I could have said to automatically vote your stuff down...	14:49
javispedro	with the "10-days autopromotion if no blockers rule" I'm starting to think QA is not such a bad idea.	14:49
javispedro	VDVsx: file blockers in packages' bugtrackers rule.	14:50
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__t1	someone playing around with gestreamer related stuff?	14:50
zaheer_	__t1, in what way?	14:50
__t1	i wanna try to make http://wiki.maemo.org/Streaming_video_from_built-in_webcam working	14:51
VDVsx	patches here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/Testing_marathon :P	14:51
qwerty12_N810	VDVsx: Grr, stop tempting me	14:51
__t1	today at c-base is ubuntu release party and i wanne try streaming it	14:51
zaheer_	__t1, i have flumotion working on it	14:51
VDVsx	RST38h, I'll get some stuff in order to test some of your packages ;)	14:51
__t1	zaheer_: sounds promising	14:52
lcuk2	__t1, say hello to the c-base crew from us maemo guys	14:52
zaheer_	__t1, you thinking about n900 or n810/n800?	14:52
__t1	n900	14:52
__t1	lcuk2: i will	14:52
zaheer_	__t1, v4l2camsrc device=/dev/video1 wil get you the front facing camera	14:53
RST38h	VDVsx: Yea, that too...	14:53
zaheer_	__t1, v4l2src unfortunately doesn't work so well, so they made v4l2camsrc for the cameras	14:53
javispedro	RST38h: btw, seen this bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5524 ?	14:53
__t1	zaheer_: i can not find a flumotion package	14:54
zaheer_	__t1, i have not put it on extras-devel yet :)	14:54
javispedro	it sucks, and I can't even guess why they introduced it.	14:54
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zaheer_	__t1, nor have i created a deb yet	14:54
zaheer_	__t1, i am working on hildonising the UI first	14:54
javispedro	(note it's not a SDL bug but a pulseaudio client library bug)	14:54
__t1	zaheer_: i see	14:55
VDVsx	javispedro, please add your patch (marathon) ;)	14:55
zaheer_	__t1, if pressured, i could push some packages through extras-devel so others can also tinker	14:55
javispedro	VDVsx: done, and feel free to edit.	14:56
javispedro	ouch.	14:57
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javispedro	grammar failure.	14:57
RST38h	javis: Nope. But I would guess it has something to do with waiting for the audio subsystem to close down	14:57
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__t1	zaheer_: i will try the gstreamer way first	14:58
javispedro	RST38h: emus using pulseaudio and opening the audio devices for long times should be blocked by this.	14:58
javispedro	cause it means receiving a phone call and trying to exit the emu would result in a nice hang.	14:58
javispedro	s/devices/device	14:59
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RST38h	javis: Hmm...never happened to me. Weird	14:59
RST38h	I am using the "simplified" pulseaudio api though	14:59
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RST38h	testing...	15:00
VDVsx	javispedro, thanks	15:00
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wazd_	http://i051.radikal.ru/0910/9f/ee3552ac3b9d.png	15:00
javispedro	wazd_: hehe	15:01
javispedro	I'm still wondering what's going to be done there.	15:01
wazd_	Ø òóóâ ûùüó øüôïó åù çêùüùåó åðó óìóòå Æ)	15:01
lcuk	haha wazd_ cool!	15:01
wazd_	aaaah	15:01
lcuk	that reminds me of /msg NickServ identify	15:01
wazd_	goddamn	15:01
* VDVsx installs wormux (50 mb ouch)		15:01
lcuk	http://wouwlabs.com/blogs/jeez/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/presentation_pov.pdf	15:01
lcuk	i meant	15:01
wazd_	I need some image to promote the event :)	15:01
lcuk	damn good job i dont have my password there	15:01
javispedro	hum. latest openttd change ingame fonts.	15:01
javispedro	s/change/changed	15:02
RST38h	javis: Yea, I am also getting this problem	15:02
RST38h	javis: will comment/vote on the bug	15:02
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javispedro	RST38h: you know where the vote button is ;)	15:02
javispedro	k, thanks!	15:02
lcuk	wazd_, that n9POV thing shocked me, read it and see if you can spot why!	15:02
RST38h	wazd: Feel like doing a background skin for a simple mp3 player?	15:03
lcuk	and wazd_ try your font with a black background, leds dont look good with white	15:03
RST38h	wazd: The main screen feature will be an "old skool" greenish LCD "display" that shows the list of song files, vertically	15:03
VDVsx	lunch time, bbl	15:04
RST38h	wazd: In the same font as SlideRule	15:04
RST38h	I guess standard controls (play/pause, prev, next, loop, random) should go to the bottom	15:04
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wazd_	RST38h: why not :)	15:07
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__t1	zaheer_: in the example for the n800 is "hantro4200enc" used. what type of encoder is that?	15:10
zaheer_	no clue, but you should probably use dspmp4venc	15:10
zaheer_	that is a dsp optimised mpeg 4 video encoder that the camera system uses	15:11
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__t1	that sound promising	15:12
__t1	zaheer_: where can i find examples of usage of that codec	15:13
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zaheer_	v4l2camsrc device=/dev/video1 ! dspmp4venc ! hantromp4mux ! filesink location=blah.mp4	15:16
zaheer_	should work for example	15:16
zaheer_	or v4l2camsrc device=/dev/video1 ! dspmp4venc ! rtpmp4vpay ! udpsink also should work	15:17
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lcuk	wazd, did you see the advertising brainstorm?	15:19
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RST38h	wazd: This will finally be a usable player =)	15:24
RST38h	I.e. no Python, no MPlayer, no UI design enforced by some weird Nokia people	15:24
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lcuk	re: /opt i want to optify the whole /usr/share/liqbase folder, but it has components inserted and removed from various packages. what is the mechanism to optify like this, i dont want to flood the / file system with lots of symlinks and would prefer a single one for all apps using this subspace	15:25
pupnik_	maybe symlink the dir on install	15:26
zaheer_	Jaffa, i posted a new solution to the contacts enhancement wrt facebook etc. brainstorm http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/enhance_contacts/?solution=having_a_native-non-haze-facebook_telepathy_account_manager	15:27
lcuk	install of which package	15:27
lcuk	if eahc makes a symlink or tries to wont i have many? and what do i do on uninstall	15:27
lcuk	how does it know it can remove the symlink	15:27
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wazd	http://s61.radikal.ru/i171/0910/b4/e5c011039fce.png	15:30
Jaffa	zaheer_: can telepathy handle non-transient accounts?	15:30
wazd	lcuk: no	15:30
wazd	RST38h: heh :)	15:30
zaheer_	Jaffa, what do you mean by non-transient?	15:30
VDVsx	who owns a log bot or can host one ? would be good to have one in #maemo-testing	15:30
lcuk	VDVsx, marius	15:31
RST38h	wazd: there should be a mushroom cloud in the background	15:31
lcuk	but hes afk	15:31
qwerty12_N810	VDVsx: Log it yourself, you lazy arse :p	15:31
VDVsx	qwerty12_N810, well, I can , lol	15:31
__t1	zaheer_: i get some dump i cant play with mplayer	15:31
Jaffa	zaheer_: i.e. not associated with a Facebook IM/chat service	15:31
__t1	http://pastebin.com/m652b736a	15:31
zaheer_	__t1, you have to cancel the pipeline cleanly	15:32
__t1	how	15:32
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zaheer_	gst-launch -e	15:33
zaheer_	and then you can ctrl-c it	15:33
zaheer_	Jaffa, i don't see why not	15:33
zaheer_	Jaffa, if it gets the contacts list using the normal facebook apis for example	15:34
VDVsx	qwerty12_N810, humm my X-chat doesn't play nice with the log, lots of strange chars there :(	15:34
qwerty12_N810	VDVsx: Ah. :( I'm also using XChat, so I doubt any logging efforts of mine would fare any better :(	15:34
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__t1	zaheer_: cool it works	15:36
zaheer_	__t1, to use the back camera you should set device to /dev/video0 and your camera application can't be using the device	15:37
VDVsx	zaheer_, what about a video-call application using the front camera (our support for some existent protocol for video chat)	15:39
VDVsx	do you know any ? or some efforts in that direction for maemo5 ?	15:39
zaheer_	VDVsx, i am guessing the telepathy guys have some stuff working	15:39
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RST38h	qwerty: Any luck fixing that crash when exiting XChat config?	15:39
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qwerty12_N810	RST38h: Prod me in a few hours; I've been working on my own stuff	15:40
adrex	the best question is: when N900 arrive for global distribution? :-) lol	15:40
zaheer_	VDVsx, there is nothing hardware related that would stop it, i guess they didn't ship it because skype uses vp7 for which there is no ported codec or accelerated codec that I am aware of and having the advertised/partnered IM not having full support would not be great	15:41
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zaheer_	the dsp optimised video encoders are h264, mpeg4 part 2, h263, jpeg	15:42
zaheer_	so google talk video which uses h264 should not be hard	15:42
VDVsx	:)	15:42
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VDVsx	it can be done in a plugin for the dialer app :)	15:43
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zaheer_	not even sure android does google talk video	15:43
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__t1	but stream ogg theora is not supported by the dsp optimized codecs??	15:44
VDVsx	humm, I've a call option using gmail accounts here o_0	15:44
zaheer_	yes there is audio google talk on the n900	15:44
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zaheer_	__t1, there is no theora decoder dsp optimised, but i know it is being worked on and almost saw a demo of it running with 0% cpu usage (just dsp) on the beagleboard at GSoC	15:45
VDVsx	cool, lol	15:45
zaheer_	VDVsx, in Mountain View/Sunnyvale that is how my wife and I used to talk	15:46
zaheer_	VDVsx, google talk audio over wifi at hotel or google offices	15:46
VDVsx	zaheer_, I only used skype so far, but has a very good quality ;)	15:47
SpeedEvil	barcode - they don't work like that - http://notalwaysright.com/self-checkout-asking-for-trouble/568	15:47
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tkai	#maemo-testing	16:09
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cvandonderen	Who on this channela are Nokia people that have access to the 41.10 firmware image?	16:15
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* mgedmin keeps dropping his n900 on the floor by accident		16:26
GiantTalkingCow	That can't be good.	16:27
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lcuk	mgedmin, git a wiimote strap	16:29
lcuk	fit	16:29
achipa_irssi	as long as it's not from frustration...	16:29
mgedmin	nah, I bend to pick something up from the floor, and the n900 flies out of my shirt pocket	16:30
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achipa_irssi	Jaffa: am I the only one getting 'cannot convert log int to int' errors in Hermes ?	16:30
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achipa_irssi	mgedmin: crouching mgedmin, hidden N900	16:31
GiantTalkingCow	I've never actually understood the point of shirt pockets. Keeping things in them is uncomfortable and makes you look silly.	16:31
lcuk	mgedmin, ahhh different reason, get a stick on rubber patch on the back of it	16:31
lcuk	so it grips to the fabric a little	16:31
* mgedmin keeps his n900 close to his heart		16:32
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lcuk	lol @ vibration makin u think you are having a heart attack	16:32
GiantTalkingCow	So, seeing as I can't get my hands on an n900 here in the US because Nokia's taking its damn time bringing it over, how is it?	16:32
mgedmin	well, all my other pockets are full or unsuitable	16:32
mgedmin	n900 is awesome	16:33
mgedmin	still has bugs	16:33
mgedmin	but is awesome	16:33
qwerty12_N810	GiantTalkingCow: Awesome. It makes you want to have it.	16:33
achipa_irssi	GiantTalkingCow: not a question of US, it's not available. those who have it have prerelease unit (regardless where they are)	16:34
roundyz	is there a concreate release date yet	16:34
roundyz	?	16:34
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roundyz	for the n900 I mean.	16:35
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lcuk	mgedmin, i couldnt agree more	16:38
lcuk	its an emerging box of brilliance	16:38
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mgedmin	roundyz, I heard the official word from Nokia is "in November"	16:39
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mgedmin	unofficial rumours say around nov 14	16:39
roundyz	mgedmin: me too, wondered if it was more like a number	16:39
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mgedmin	as a programmer I know very well that estimating release dates is a losing game	16:40
mgedmin	you never know what bugs you'll discover and how long it'll take to fix them	16:40
GiantTalkingCow	I'm a bit leery of getting one though, seeing how quickly Nokia dropped the n900s 2 predecessors.	16:41
qwerty12_N810	~mer	16:42
infobot	somebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer	16:42
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roundyz	I dont really care about support other than hardware	16:43
GiantTalkingCow	Having tried Mer so far, I'm unimpressed. (.16, I think it was)	16:43
mgedmin	GiantTalkingCow, n900 is still "step 4 out of 5" towards a truly mass-market-consumer-ready device	16:43
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mgedmin	rumours are that the next tablet will have essentially the same hardware, so maemo 6 will probably run on the n900	16:44
mgedmin	just like os2008 worked on both n800 and n810	16:44
GiantTalkingCow	mgedmin: Frankly, I think it's a bad strategy... by the point Nokia gets off its ass and does something, the iPhone or Android based systems will end up owning the smartphone market.	16:44
lcuk	it took apple 10 years to find its footing for tablet stuff	16:45
lcuk	they shouldv continued with the newton	16:45
mgedmin	GTC: so you're suggesting they slower the pace of development by supporting older devices?	16:45
GiantTalkingCow	Yes, but Apple was entering into a market where little competition for something like the iPhone existed. mgedmin: No, I'm suggesting that the n900 should've been the mass-market-ready device.	16:46
mgedmin	that certainly would've been nice	16:46
lcuk	GiantTalkingCow, apple and android and pre have all got one major different to maemo. they use a custom framework, at this point, maemo remains a safe haven for real x11 apps.	16:46
mgedmin	but I think if Nokia could've made it mass-market-ready, they would've	16:47
mgedmin	it's a lot of work, developing a platform and polishing the apps	16:47
RST38h	how many punters need real x11 apps?	16:47
GiantTalkingCow	lcuk: I don't see that 'real X11 apps' are going to drive sales, much.	16:47
mgedmin	maybe they could've hider 2x the number of developers and tried pulling it off, but remember Brooks' Law	16:47
Corsac	everybody wants the gimp on his cellphone	16:47
SpeedEvil	GiantTalkingCow: xeyes is a killer app man.	16:47
lcuk	me neither, but i can see where they are coming from	16:47
mgedmin	s/hider/hired/	16:48
infobot	mgedmin meant: maybe they could've hired 2x the number of developers and tried pulling it off, but remember Brooks' Law	16:48
roundyz	i wanted wmclock	16:48
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lcuk	if i recall, the iphone playground was designed for the device	16:48
lcuk	and suits it nicely	16:48
Jaffa	achipa_irssi: can you send me the whole output when you run /opt/hermes/bin/hermes in X Term?	16:49
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GiantTalkingCow	Really? Where are they coming from? I certainly don't see 'we can run a full Linux desktop' as any sort of great advantage in the smartphone market. Such phones or PDAs are very dependent on a good UI (given limited space). If anything, full X11 support sort of complicates that, unless there's a useful and easy way to redo the UI, and a HIG to make sure you've got a...	16:49
roundyz	anyone know of a good app that make class diagrams from source code?	16:49
GiantTalkingCow	...uniform look.	16:49
javispedro	oh no, not again discussion stupid mainstream.	16:50
javispedro	s/discussion/discussing	16:50
RST38h	GiantTalkingCow: Can I simplify this for you?	16:50
SpeedEvil	RST38h: have you tried a Karnaugh map?	16:50
GiantTalkingCow	RST38h: Please do.	16:50
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achipa_irssi	Jaffa: ok, will try to	16:50
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RST38h	GiantTalkingCow: Every time you feel like typing "iPhone" here or on t.m.o, sit on your hands for at least 30 seconds and think.	16:51
RST38h	GiantTalkingCow: Consider if you REALLY want to do that	16:51
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RST38h	Speed: No. What is it?	16:51
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Suurorca	I would probably have eventually wound up buing samsung galaxy ;p	16:52
SpeedEvil	RST38h: it's a method of simplifying boolean logic equations.	16:52
RST38h	SpeedEvil: Oh that	16:52
RST38h	SpeedEvil: I normally go with algebraic transformations, they are easier	16:52
achipa_irssi	Jaffa: curiously this happens when an external facebook login is needed	16:53
GiantTalkingCow	RST38h: as I've mentioned the iPhone only twice, both times in passing when talking about the larger smartphone market at large, I'd like to know what your problem is. You see, I'm operating on the assumption that the n900, its successors, and Maemo in general are all part of Nokia's plan to eventually create a long-lived smartphone platform...	16:53
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achipa_irssi	Jaffa: will need to find a way to log out hermes	16:53
GiantTalkingCow	...I figure mentioning the competition is not an unreasonable thing to do.	16:53
RST38h	GiantTalkingCow: Consider this for moment: what if there is NO PLAN?	16:54
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mgedmin	"let's try this and see what happens"	16:54
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* mgedmin likes seeing three or more Linux smartphone platforms gaining traction		16:54
GiantTalkingCow	RST38h: Then I have to admit I'd be a bit mystified: why devote the resources to something like this if not in the hope to either profit from it?	16:55
GiantTalkingCow	to profit from it*	16:55
RST38h	Giant: There is hope but there is no plan	16:55
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_Pete_	and why should there be	16:56
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GiantTalkingCow	Well that really doesn't sound like a very good way of doing business to me.	16:56
_Pete_	as nokia to my knowledge makes the profit not from smartphones	16:56
RST38h	Assuming that there is some huge Nokia-wide world domination plan is an easy topic to obsess yourself with	16:56
_Pete_	but the other ones	16:56
RST38h	But large bureacrcacies like Nokia rarely work this way	16:56
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GiantTalkingCow	I'm not assuming that there's an overarching plan, but given that Nokia's been dealing with increasingly adept competition over the years, I figure when it starts a project like a smartphone, or maybe a netbook line, etc that it likely has some sort of plan in mind for how this might either make money or advance its current tech, and isn't just going into thinking "it'll all work out for the best".	16:57
_Pete_	GiantTalkingCow: and your rant point being exactly what?	16:59
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Robot101	there isn't a plan	16:59
mgedmin	maemo didn't start out as a smartphone platform	16:59
Robot101	there are many plans	16:59
mgedmin	unless there was a hidden plan	16:59
Robot101	hatched by many people at many levels of the organisation	16:59
Robot101	which are executed by people with differing levels of budgetary approval	16:59
GiantTalkingCow	_Pete_: Who's ranting? I was assuming that there was some basic idea of what Nokia wants to do with the n900, and other phones like it (should it make any more).	16:59
Robot101	unless/until they need to get their boss to sign off on it	16:59
wazd	http://i017.radikal.ru/0910/1f/bd069200c7fe.png hihihi :)	17:00
Robot101	maemo is no different, it was some r&d project with toy internet tablet devices, until later someone sold the idea of making a phone with it :)	17:00
_Pete_	GiantTalkingCow: you are ranting	17:00
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lcuk	+1 Robot101	17:00
GiantTalkingCow	So what you're saying is that in management terms, Nokia is the Microsoft of the mobile phone business, Robot101? (aka, the left hand may not know what the right is doing)	17:00
javispedro	a r&d project done in some deep basement :)	17:00
lcuk	that sounds like the plot for battlestar gallactica :P	17:01
Robot101	now of course people higher up in nokia are paying more attention to it as this might be a good addition to their bigger plans :)	17:01
lcuk	wazd, :D much better	17:01
lcuk	thats way cool!	17:01
Robot101	GiantTalkingCow: it's a large company? yes. large company in large company shocker.	17:01
_Pete_	GiantTalkingCow: you are right	17:02
GiantTalkingCow	Robot101: Google's a large company, it's hardly stopped them from having defined plans when they actually make an entry into a market.	17:02
_Pete_	sometimes that's very frustrarting	17:02
Robot101	it turns out that everyone not knowing everything about the company's every activity is a necessary consequence of having a company that's over 100 or so people	17:02
zaheer_	Robot101, s/100/30/ :)	17:02
* RST38h is constantly reminded of three blind sages exploring an elephant, when he has to read through GiantTalkingCow & Co ranting		17:03
Robot101	zaheer_: or, cynically, 1 :D	17:03
_Pete_	personally I dont care anymore	17:03
SpeedEvil	Robot101: that doesn't stop there being a - say - 30 page document titled 'the next 5 years'	17:03
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_Pete_	untill I get paid for that	17:03
SpeedEvil	Robot101: which oultines the whole corporate strategy	17:03
Robot101	who says there isn't?	17:03
SpeedEvil	(of course, this may be secret.)	17:03
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Robot101	ideas will bubble up and down and people at higher levels have bigger plans and find the stuff below them fits in, and gets more money, or doesn't, and gets cancelled or relocated	17:04
lcuk	SpeedEvil, the next 5 years document might be written, but if it turns out its wrong and someone modifies it	17:04
lcuk	there will still be copies	17:04
lcuk	and you are then goosed	17:05
Robot101	thats exactly how google works too, I'll warrant	17:05
GiantTalkingCow	Robot101: Not quite, no.	17:05
lcuk	thats how every company works	17:05
lcuk	google has the 20% rule	17:05
lcuk	and if things look good they get promoted	17:05
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: Unless someone kills the idea as they hate you.	17:06
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_Pete_	Robot101: moi	17:06
lcuk	if one person can kill a good idea, it wasnt worth having in the first place	17:06
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Jaffa	achipa_irssi: Open X Terminal; type (without quotes) '/opt/hermes/bin/hermes >MyDocs/hermes-log.txt' and then send me 'hermes-log.txt' in the root of your N900's documents' space	17:09
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mgedmin	Jaffa, hermes is cool!	17:10
mgedmin	~Jaffa++	17:10
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achipa_irssi	Jaffa: yeah, figured as much :)	17:11
wazd	Stskeeps: where's the "My second day as Distmaster" thread? :D	17:12
achipa_irssi	just wishing there was a simple way to log out	17:12
mgedmin	he's resting	17:12
lcuk	his first action as dist-master was to deligate and then go on holiday	17:13
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VDVsx	Jaffa, are you skipping the marathon, gonna vote thumbs down in your apps :P	17:17
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lcuk	VDVsx, coding a fix i believe	17:20
VDVsx	fair enough	17:20
mgedmin	what is that little white square doing on the maemo.org login page?	17:20
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RST38h	mgedmin: that square is watching you	17:21
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javispedro	ah, the marathon started already?	17:22
javispedro	ouch, I'm late then.	17:23
javispedro	well.	17:23
javispedro	no problem.	17:23
Jaffa	VDVsx: did some this morning (badly, it turns out) and need to spend some time with family	17:26
VDVsx	Jaffa, ;)	17:26
Jaffa	VDVsx: was up until 02:30 polishing Hermes 0.2.0 for some widespread testing	17:26
achipa_irssi	Jaffa: how does one log out in hermes ?	17:27
Jaffa	achipa_irssi: Open X Terminal; type (without quotes) '/opt/hermes/bin/hermes >MyDocs/hermes-log.txt' and then send me 'hermes-log.txt' in the root of your N900's documents' space	17:28
achipa_irssi	Jaffa: yeah. got that. but. in order to reproduce bug need to do a facebook login. no lgoin until i log out.	17:29
Jaffa	achipa_irssi: Ah, sorry misparsed "log out".	17:29
mgedmin	isn't it irritating that you have to supply your facebook credentials twice (for the sharing plugin, for the desktop widget) and then you have to manually use the web browser to authenticate very time you run Hermes?	17:30
mgedmin	there ought to be a keyring in the platform	17:30
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achipa_irssi	mgedmin: not every time, you can keep a session -@that's what's burning me now :)	17:30
Jaffa	achipa_irssi: Two options: 1) disauthenticate the app in Facebook; 2) delete the gconf key	17:30
Firebird	Hm, does /opt in the eMMC have its own root structure(/usr/share /usr/lib etc) created by the optify script?	17:31
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Jaffa	mgedmin: Facebook's API doesn't let the session of one app be used in another (cryptographically signs session to app). I'd originally had Hermes using Facebook widgets authorisation token; but Facebook denies a different app access	17:32
mgedmin	Firebird, /opt/maemo does, yes	17:32
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Firebird	ah	17:32
mgedmin	Jaffa, how does it know it's a different app?	17:33
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kami	hi guys	17:34
achipa	Jaffa: would be nice if it did this when you disable facebook in the 'config' dialog	17:36
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zakkm	http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/mob/1415329662.html would this be for real? N900 ?	17:38
qwerty12_N810	FAKE	17:38
qwerty12_N810	That image was one of the first leaked images	17:39
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zakkm	well yeah would be google'd	17:39
zakkm	even when i sell stuff on craigslist i do google images	17:39
zakkm	ah man :(	17:39
qwerty12_N810	For a product that isn't even out, I sure as hell wouldn't trust anything but an image of the item they have	17:39
zakkm	weird thing is they say local pickup	17:40
zakkm	unless they change that once u email asking or something	17:40
zakkm	just thought id ask : )	17:40
loufoque	if you want a N900, just buy it from nokia	17:40
qwerty12_N810	local pickup == rape/bash you and take the money/etc.	17:40
zakkm	isnt it supposed to be out by now?	17:40
zakkm	that too ;p	17:40
zakkm	i want one, i just cant afford one	17:40
zakkm	and i thought it was coming out in october	17:40
GiantTalkingCow	qwerty12_N810: Which crazy, crime-ridden area do you live in?	17:40
loufoque	well you thought wrong	17:40
loufoque	and the N900 isn't particularly expensive IMO	17:41
zakkm	im aware, i been out of maemo scnee for awhile	17:41
loufoque	compared to other similar phones	17:41
zakkm	i cant afford phones :P	17:41
loufoque	of course the price is country dependent	17:41
zakkm	trying to save like $100-120 for a used ipod touch	17:41
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qwerty12_N810	GiantTalkingCow: east London. And there was a case, quite recently, about a man getting his head bashed in after "buying" a car from Gumtree (British Craigslist)	17:42
qwerty12_N810	Took his money and ran	17:42
zakkm	Toronto, Canada.. craigslist here	17:42
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zakkm	eek	17:42
zakkm	and to think i was going to buy a car off craigslist	17:42
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zakkm	well would of checked it out in person/ make sure , full mechanic check.. but yeah	17:42
ali1234	qwerty12_N810: those guys got busted by a van full of undercover cops	17:42
loufoque	east london is a crazy crime-ridden area indeed.	17:42
zakkm	london england?	17:43
qwerty12_N810	ali1234: Nice, didn't read that :)	17:43
GiantTalkingCow	Yes, London England.	17:43
loufoque	no, london on the moon	17:43
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zakkm	its not a bad place	17:43
zakkm	theres london ontario canada?	17:43
zakkm	not so far from where i live	17:43
loufoque	well it's just like when you say paris, you don't mean paris texas unless you say so	17:43
zakkm	its a major city still..not globally but around here it is	17:43
GiantTalkingCow	loufoque: Texans do. :P	17:44
zakkm	paris texas into major	17:44
zakkm	London is a city in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwestern_Ontario http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada along the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City-Windsor_Corridor with a metropolitan area population of 457,720	17:44
zakkm	eek sorry, i didnt realize it would copy whole url	17:45
zakkm	doesnt sound like much, but canada population is small;p	17:45
loufoque	they've got a city named windsor too?	17:45
loufoque	crazy northern americans	17:45
zakkm	windsor, ontario?:P	17:45
GiantTalkingCow	zakkm: Tiny, in fact. The US state I live in has a large one.	17:46
zakkm	most countries do in the world " windsor "	17:46
zakkm	GiantTalkingCow: yeah, my city is like 7-8mil, but in terms of canadian city populations, 450k is alot	17:46
zakkm	its the 10th biggest city..	17:46
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zakkm	you guys see the Zipit Z2?	17:47
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GiantTalkingCow	Yes. Not my thing, too small.	17:48
zakkm	heh i bought one	17:48
zakkm	it is small , omg	17:48
sgbirch	Amazon just told me the n900 delivery date is now Dec 1. wtf	17:48
zakkm	heh how much	17:49
Suurorca	;p	17:49
yncyrydybyl1	is there a log of this channel somewhere?	17:49
lcuk	google	17:49
GiantTalkingCow	Only $900! Or 900 pounds in the UK.... ;)	17:49
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zakkm	hey lcuk ! long time no talk :)	17:49
lcuk	and its notified on entry now	17:49
lcuk	-ChanServ- [#maemo] Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/ Logs available at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog	17:50
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EspadaV8_L	december for the n900? :(	17:50
lcuk	hiya zakkm \o/	17:50
zakkm	happy halloween guys :)	17:50
hcarrega	:(	17:50
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hcarrega	yape fnac just told me the same	17:50
hcarrega	december	17:51
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gnuton	Hi	17:52
EspadaV8_L	might wait for the maemo 6 device if it's going to be delayed much more	17:52
zakkm	maemo 6. hah	17:52
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zakkm	i wonder what they would change	17:52
tekonivel	what's the reason this time?	17:52
zaheer_	the change is mainly gtk -> qt :)	17:52
zakkm	no maemo 5to maemo 6	17:53
zakkm	faster speeds?	17:53
zaheer_	that's what i said	17:53
EspadaV8_L	maemo 6 is Qt based	17:53
zaheer_	maemo 5 -> maemo 6 is gtk -> qt	17:53
zakkm	maemo 5 is still gtk?	17:53
EspadaV8_L	and capasitive touchscreen	17:53
zaheer_	yes	17:53
zakkm	omg ;p	17:53
zakkm	i thought they moving to qt alreadyt	17:53
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zash	will you be able to run gtk-stuff in maemo6?	17:54
zakkm	will maemo 6 run on n900?	17:54
roundyz	I had the amazon email email too.	17:54
zaheer_	zakkm, there is an official qt in january	17:54
EspadaV8_L	you can run qt apps on maemo 5	17:54
roundyz	looks like its going to be an end of november jobby	17:54
zakkm	you canrun qt apps on maemo 4	17:54
zaheer_	not sure how they're going to add the touch widgets	17:54
EspadaV8_L	zakkm: not that i know of	17:54
zakkm	unofficially, but it still ran fine	17:54
Flyser	zash: yes, gtk will be maintained by the community	17:54
zakkm	wow	17:55
zakkm	im going to buy myself a android phone instead i think ;p	17:55
EspadaV8_L	the n900 is a nice device	17:55
roundyz	bye all	17:55
zaheer_	zakm: enjoy the java stuff :)	17:55
roundyz	\quit	17:56
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zakkm	i cant afford it, and i couldnt for a long time	17:56
zakkm	by then android will be awesomee ;p	17:56
zakkm	i dont do dev work, it wouldnt matter	17:56
EspadaV8_L	but maemo 6 is meant to be out q3-4 next year i think	17:56
zaheer_	try making any real multimedia apps on android	17:56
zakkm	thats what i will have a ipod touch for	17:56
zakkm	i dont do multimedia stuff on my phone	17:57
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zakkm	my phone now can do videos and songs .. instead i use my old ipod	17:57
zakkm	dont mix phone with multimedia	17:57
EspadaV8_L	don't see the point of having 2 devices, a phone and an mp3 player	17:57
* lcuk watched an entire tv series on his n900 whilst sat on the train		17:57
EspadaV8_L	espically an ipod	17:58
zakkm	lcuk: you have a n900 ?	17:58
lcuk	yes	17:58
zash	EspadaV8_L: separate batteries	17:58
zakkm	i heard the community was giving some? what was that about	17:58
zakkm	you got it free?	17:58
RST38h	It is really good for video, true	17:58
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lcuk	the community have been loaned devices for a while, it was announced at the maemo summit	17:58
zakkm	sick :)	17:58
zakkm	i havent been around in ages	17:58
zakkm	so its on loan?	17:58
zakkm	how long	17:58
lcuk	RST38h, i still wish i had transcoded them down before, i wouldnt mind lower quality if i could get longer life	17:58
zaheer_	until april	17:58
lcuk	i was on the train for 7 hours	17:59
zakkm	eek	17:59
zakkm	what series? :P	17:59
RST38h	lcuk: Life is ok, normal for this kind of thing	17:59
lcuk	eureka actually :)	17:59
zaheer_	lcuk, i was watching micromen recorded from bbc4 in bed last night	17:59
lcuk	first series	17:59
zaheer_	lcuk, again non transcoded so full pal etc.	17:59
RST38h	lcuk: + I do not think you would get longer life if you transcoded them	17:59
zaheer_	yes you will	17:59
lcuk	i just dropped it on the massive 32gb of space	17:59
zakkm	less cpu , more battery	17:59
lcuk	RST38h, of course i will	17:59
lcuk	less active cpu decoding	17:59
RST38h	Dunno.	17:59
zaheer_	RST38h, decoding 720p compared to 800x480 would make a lot of cpu difference	17:59
lcuk	i was already on low brightness screen	17:59
zakkm	720p pwns :P	18:00
zakkm	480p not so much	18:00
lcuk	dunno what res	18:00
lcuk	crystal clear tho	18:00
zakkm	downloaded?	18:00
zaheer_	720p pointless on device that has 480 lines :)	18:00
* zakkm monitor has 1152p :P		18:00
lcuk	on your phone?	18:00
zakkm	no	18:00
uhsf	i would like the n900 maemo to run on my neo freerunner but the mer distro isn't quite as neat.	18:00
zakkm	pc monitor	18:00
zakkm	2048x1152 23.3"	18:00
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lcuk	uhsf, "yet"	18:01
zaheer_	when the maemo devices have hdmi out, then keeping 720p would be good	18:01
lcuk	video out is super cool	18:01
zakkm	lcuk: is it finally fast? the n900?	18:01
zakkm	n800 was sooo slow	18:01
lcuk	and especially since you have entire 800*480 surface on video	18:01
lcuk	AND also 800*480 gtk surface on device	18:01
lcuk	2 user system :D	18:01
zakkm	2 user?	18:01
zakkm	you can switch users?	18:02
wazd	zaheer_: the only reason for 720p on n900 that you can watch it without conversion	18:02
zaheer_	wazd, agreed	18:02
zaheer_	wazd, it is nice to just plonk videos	18:02
lcuk	zakkm, the joke about "fixed in fremantle" might have been for software,	18:02
zakkm	why not just make the video player run it in 800x480?	18:02
lcuk	but certainly hardware wise	18:02
zakkm	as like mplayer settigns	18:02
zaheer_	however if a user wants to save battery life he'd drop them down	18:02
lcuk	everything we moaned at really for n8x0 series	18:02
lcuk	is gone	18:02
EspadaV8_L	the ogg decoder wasn't that great i thought	18:02
lcuk	the n900 is lightyears ahead	18:02
EspadaV8_L	hopefully it'll improve though	18:02
RST38h	blizzard hw scaling is also gone though :(	18:02
zaheer_	EspadaV8_L, that is being worked on	18:02
zakkm	lcuk: i only moaned about the speed :P liqbase was perfect :D	18:02
lcuk	RST38h, you sure?	18:03
RST38h	lcuk: yes.	18:03
RST38h	lcuk: no blizzard -> no scaling via omapfb	18:03
lcuk	zakkm, my first bug report to nokia about liqbase was "it runs too fast, please slow it down"	18:03
EspadaV8_L	zaheer_: cool :)	18:03
zaheer_	EspadaV8_L, i mentioned earlier here that there is an optimised dsp theora decoder	18:03
zaheer_	EspadaV8_L, it is almost finished	18:03
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EspadaV8_L	:-)	18:04
zakkm	the n800 was good, for software run, like obviously mameo 5 is awesome cause its all flashy and such.. but in a static environment ... maemo 4 was fine ... it was just really slow	18:04
zakkm	like i honestly love the thumb keyboard	18:04
EspadaV8_L	i really want one, i was so impressed when i tried it out	18:04
* lcuk never thought the n8x0 was slow		18:04
* lcuk still doesnt		18:04
zakkm	im very impatient on tech :D	18:04
EspadaV8_L	the £470 price is going to be hard to swallow though	18:04
zakkm	i run a 60% overclocked desktop	18:04
lcuk	it was just graphically challenged	18:04
ali1234	the n800 is incredibly slow	18:04
zaheer_	the UI for n8x0 was crap compared to the n900's	18:04
ali1234	loading a webpage is painful	18:05
achipa_irssi	Jaffa: sent msg with the traceback	18:05
zakkm	i overclocked my desktop cpu 2ghz to 3.33ghz . i hate slowness in tech	18:05
zakkm	like i dont mind waiting in lines, and such but tech.. n800 ahhh	18:05
zakkm	the UI sucked cause it wasnt opengl or anything	18:06
RST38h	UI in N8x0 is just fine	18:06
zakkm	yeah	18:06
zakkm	but really slow	18:06
RST38h	it is ok	18:06
RST38h	not slow	18:06
zakkm	even when i installed nitdroid	18:06
zakkm	besides the insane always crashing	18:06
zakkm	it ran veryy fast	18:06
RST38h	also no idea why it has to use opengl to be fast	18:07
zakkm	i click browser, it opened instantlly.. i typed a site it loaded	18:07
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lcuk	RST38h, hardware scaling still exists at some level	18:07
lcuk	i just ran liqbase in 400*240	18:07
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lcuk	and its fullscreen	18:07
RST38h	lcuk: it is just not known which one :)	18:07
zakkm	if nitdroid continued , i wouldnt of sold my n800	18:07
zaheer_	Xv uses hardware scaling too	18:07
lcuk	i know this	18:07
lcuk	you send over a surface of whatever size, and its scaled to the window you defined when opening it	18:08
lcuk	mental note, must scale the rocket and back icons, they look massive at this res	18:09
RST38h	lcuk: so you managed to use hw scaling via Xv?	18:09
zakkm	lcuk: still doing lcuk, for maemo 5?	18:09
zakkm	ahh	18:09
zakkm	liqbase*	18:09
lcuk	RST38h, yeah of course	18:09
zakkm	RST38h: lcuk knows everything, dont question :P	18:10
lcuk	zakkm, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGUKICDeok	18:10
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RST38h	lcuk: =)	18:11
lcuk	RST38h, i cant remember how to list the xv modes available	18:11
zakkm	lcuk: wow nice	18:11
lcuk	but remember how i noted there might be an rgb one	18:11
lcuk	zakkm, this is even better, its just in extras-testing atm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0	18:12
zakkm	wow	18:13
zakkm	that must of been a sick sumit	18:13
lcuk	that was before the summit	18:13
zakkm	they mailed it to you?	18:13
zakkm	why dont you get to keep it? :P	18:14
zakkm	give it back in poorcondition :D	18:14
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lcuk	zakkm, http://maemo.nokia.com/videos/onedotzero-adventures-in-motion-powered-by-nokia-n900/	18:14
zaheer_	there is an rgb xv mode	18:15
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zaheer_	i think	18:15
lcuk	it was mentioned a while ago	18:15
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zaheer_	you can check the caps reported by xvimagesink in gstreamer	18:15
zaheer_	or you can do xvinfo i guess	18:15
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zakkm	heh lcuk they stole your "tags"	18:16
Jaffa	mgedmin: each app has a unique key	18:16
lcuk	mmm zakkm ?	18:17
zakkm	in liqbase you could add tags for things	18:17
zakkm	watching this video, in maemo 5 its like the same	18:17
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lcuk	i meant the onedotzero one lol	18:17
lcuk	theres tagging everywhere	18:17
zakkm	seems very fast :D	18:17
zakkm	youtube finally plays ? :P	18:17
lcuk	and if i didnt want ideas and principles and code used i wouldnt be in open source	18:18
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zakkm	true	18:18
zakkm	that sound ssick	18:19
zakkm	i want a n900	18:19
zakkm	could never afford it though	18:19
* lcuk still thinks the device shouldv been called N over 9000		18:19
zakkm	N	18:19
zakkm	--	18:19
zakkm	9000	18:19
zakkm	:D	18:19
zaheer_	they should put all the offline as it happens videos on the n900 retail versions	18:20
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achipa_irssi	zaheer_: put a 'maemo.org' stamp in front of the offline as it happens title	18:34
zaheer_	achipa, overlaid or to the left? :)	18:34
mgedmin	:)	18:36
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qwerty12	gcobb: If you're around, having you in #maemo-testing would be much appreciated. Since we're discussing your apps ;)	18:45
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rm_you	hey	18:49
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rm_you	when does that beta marathon start?	18:49
rm_you	or has it	18:49
zaheer_	a few hours ago	18:49
rm_you	damn	18:49
zaheer_	it is happening now in #maemo-testing	18:49
rm_you	forgot to check timezones	18:49
zaheer_	it's ok join :)	18:50
GeneralAntilles	Fail	18:50
rm_you	i am	18:50
rm_you	... while sitting at a taco restaurant	18:50
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shiznebit	WOW	18:52
shiznebit	i just heard the N900 is using pulse	18:52
GiantTalkingCow	Tacos are quite nice, but I've never been able to find good Mexican food outside of North America for some reason, so they can't be catching on all that much.	18:52
shiznebit	is this true	18:53
zaheer_	shiznebit, yes	18:53
shiznebit	thats gonna be a MASSIVE HEADACH	18:53
zaheer_	shiznebit, not really, it works very well	18:53
shiznebit	HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA	18:53
shiznebit	if it works at all	18:54
lcuk	works for me ?	18:54
zaheer_	shiznebit, nokia had full control of the alsa driver, pulseaudio and the libraries that use it	18:54
shiznebit	i really do hope they did a good job	18:54
zaheer_	shiznebit, your experience of pulseaudio on the desktop is very different to the experience epople get when using the n900	18:54
shiznebit	which version is it using	18:54
zaheer_	shiznebit, palm pre also uses pulseaudio	18:54
shiznebit	O.o	18:54
zaheer_	and no reviewers complained :)	18:55
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rm_you	yes it works quite nicely imo	18:55
shiznebit	so which version of pulse does it use	18:55
GiantTalkingCow	Speaking of the Palm Pre, does anyone else think it would've been better off with a landscape keyboard like the one on the n900?	18:55
dmj726	pulse works well more me on the desktop	18:55
qwerty12	shiznebit: It works better on my N900 than it ever did on my desktop...	18:55
rm_you	qwerty12: so how is this testing thing working?	18:56
zaheer_	shiznebit, 0.9.15-1maemo2	18:56
rm_you	are we going package by package?	18:56
qwerty12	rm_you: Yes, package in the /topic :)	18:56
shiznebit	what kind of video out cable does it use ?	18:56
zaheer_	GiantTalkingCow, not sure, it could have done with ability to write native apps and working more with the community :)	18:56
zaheer_	shiznebit, n900 uses composite + 2 phono	18:57
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GiantTalkingCow	zaheer_: True enough. I suppose we'll see how it does in a more crowded smartphone market this next year. Apple has it beat on install base, and Android has the app advantage.	18:57
shiznebit	the app advantage ?	18:57
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lcuk	GiantTalkingCow, isnt that the same when ANY new thing is released?	18:58
GiantTalkingCow	Well, so does Apple, but I'm referring to Android's open door app policy as the advantage here. As opposed to Apple's "no, Steve doesn't want you to run that" twaddle.	18:58
GiantTalkingCow	lcuk: Yep.	18:58
lcuk	speaking of doesnt want to do that	18:58
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shiznebit	well whats maemo's policy	18:58
lcuk	i have "bullshitbingo" installed	18:58
lcuk	and its a lot of fun	18:58
shiznebit	s/ maemo's/Nokia's	18:59
GiantTalkingCow	shiznebit: On apps? Install what you like. I think they even have a tutorial on how to enable root on the n900 up.	18:59
shiznebit	right but how easy is to install them	18:59
shiznebit	is it just DoubleClick	19:00
shiznebit	or do you have to use console	19:00
GiantTalkingCow	Something of the sort, if it's like older versions of Maemo. Either grab them out of an app repository, or download the file and run it.	19:00
shiznebit	it would be a big mess for people to compile the programs on their phone	19:01
SpeedEvil	Why?	19:01
tekonivel	i'm sitting a cafe, and the dude in the next table has an N900	19:02
* tekonivel wants to stab+run		19:02
qwerty12	tekonivel: DO IT	19:02
qwerty12	I won't tell	19:03
SpeedEvil	Indeed, do it.	19:03
SpeedEvil	(and if you're that dude, say hi.)	19:03
* tekonivel is plotting....		19:03
dmj726	how'd he get one, the lucky *******	19:03
tekonivel	developer perhaps	19:03
SpeedEvil	Probably stabbed and ran, like we all did.	19:03
lcuk	shiznebit, i compile on my device all the time	19:03
tekonivel	SpeedEvil: lol	19:03
Stskeeps	tekonivel: perhaps its a guy from within here..	19:04
lcuk	its a 600mhz processor	19:04
dmj726	perhaps he's using his n900 to post in this conversation.	19:04
lcuk	almost 10x faster than what i used to build c stuff on	19:04
tekonivel	dudewithn900andbeer: if you're reading this, say "y0"	19:04
lbt	tekonivel: go say "hello"	19:04
lcuk	yo	19:04
lbt	he's not a girl... you'll be fine	19:04
lcuk	theres no1 sat next to me tho	19:04
* qwerty12 is in his living room		19:05
* SpeedEvil also.		19:05
Stskeeps	same	19:05
qwerty12	To any Finns with an N900: Look next to you	19:05
lbt	X-Fade: ping	19:05
tekonivel	if u see a person staring at your n900, take heed he'll stab you very soon now	19:06
shiznebit	talk to him	19:06
tekonivel	no i'm busy preparing for exams	19:07
shiznebit	then while he is distracted take his phone and RUNN!	19:07
tekonivel	this is evident from that fact that i'm chatting on irc	19:07
lcuk	tekonivel, ahhh cool, you have exams on irc protocol too!	19:07
tekonivel	lcuk: always the same... ;)	19:07
qwerty12	tekonivel: If you steal it, the owner will activate its anti-theft protection mechanism: SSHing in and using MPlayer to play a file that screams "RAPE!"	19:08
tekonivel	actually i'm having exams on moral philosophy. i'm sure stabbing someone for his n900 would be a good case to explain for my exam	19:08
Veggen	I actually submittet an IRC bot as a project, once. I tolk the teacher that "this project is dead boring. This IRC bot projekt is actually as relevant, more work and more fun."	19:09
lcuk	i thought they changed it to play rick astley?	19:09
derf	tekonivel: It's for the good of the land.	19:09
sp3000	Veggen: I take it this wasn't moral philosophy	19:09
tekonivel	sp3000: lol	19:09
tekonivel	sp3000: fsck Kant, coding irc-bots is more relevant!1!!	19:10
Veggen	sp3000: nah. Actually, the mandatory project was some client-server-related programming. So I did a bot in perl (one to make conversions between units, currencies, and other stuff)	19:10
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mgedmin	google reader == battery killer	19:12
Andy80	hi all	19:12
mgedmin	left the window open in the background	19:12
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Andy80	mgedmin: it's normal... it uses a lot of javascript... it would be the same if you left facebook home page in background :)	19:12
mgedmin	I'd like the web browser to pause javascript when it's in the background	19:13
* Andy80 would like a decent RSS reader.... :P		19:13
tekonivel	netvibes is p-o-i-s-o-n for the n800 browser	19:14
Andy80	netvibes?	19:15
tekonivel	Andy80: netvibes.com, an aggregator	19:15
tekonivel	now his mate went out for a cigarette and his fiddling with n900 again	19:16
* tekonivel is annoyed		19:16
* tekonivel has become a hyped up fanboi		19:16
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tekonivel	what's come of me? aargghh	19:16
dmj726	tekonivel: I know what you mean.	19:18
dmj726	That said, n900 is missing a lot of features I'd like.	19:19
dmj726	See what I did there?...what no Apple fanboy every could.	19:19
dmj726	;)	19:19
mgedmin	that's because even non-Apple-fanboys know only the iPhone is perfect	19:20
GiantTalkingCow	Uh, what was that?	19:20
mgedmin	(except for the slavery part)	19:20
GiantTalkingCow	Because if it's complaining, then I really don't think you visit the right sort of Apple sites.	19:20
tekonivel	dmj726: you master your fanboiness	19:20
dmj726	and the singletasking, crappy camera, etc to go with the slavery. Also, how do I install X on the iphone	19:21
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* dmj726 does not have and wouldn't want an iphone for any purpose other than ebay.		19:21
GiantTalkingCow	Is there actually a smartphone with a non-crappy camera at this point?	19:22
dmj726	...n900 looks acceptable	19:22
dmj726	no dslr but something that records images that I wouldn't be embarrassed to show people	19:22
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mgedmin	people post pictures taken with a n900 that look fabulous when scaled down	19:23
mgedmin	e.g. see tigert's recent blog post, iirc	19:24
lcuk	people post pictures taken with a n900	19:24
greggypoo	i am trying to install "maemo sdk+" which tells me to use the debian source at http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/downnload/host/	19:24
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RST38h	well, it is not that fabulous at full scale	19:24
greggypoo	er, download not downnload :) anyways, that directory doesn't exist, only download/target/ seems to exist, which seems to be a debian repository for n810 packages nistead of the sdk	19:25
RST38h	reasonably good cell phone camera, not comparable even with a lowly Casio Exilim though	19:25
dmj726	why is it somewhat grainy at 5mp?	19:25
lcuk	there are few places which display full resolution images	19:25
greggypoo	is sdk+ abandonware or something?	19:25
Pavlov	because the lens/sensor is tiny	19:25
SpeedEvil	And there are only so many photons.	19:25
dmj726	yeah, I was afraid of that	19:25
derf	The "noise removal" they're doing on it isn't helping any, either.	19:25
RST38h	tigert is a photographic genius though	19:26
dmj726	(was hoping some of it was an artifact of flicker encoding)	19:26
derf	The photos I saw had definitely been filtered, and not for the better.	19:26
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tekonivel	i wonder why no cell phone designer has dared to have a proper, optical zoom	19:27
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SpeedEvil	tekonivel: very simple	19:28
SpeedEvil	tekonivel: because it takes 10-20cc or so to do a decent lens system.	19:28
dmj726	it would be a huge lens for a phone	19:28
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lcuk	lol	19:28
SpeedEvil	Your average '5MP' camera will fit in a 1cm cube comfortably	19:28
lcuk	but think of the possibilities	19:28
SpeedEvil	(phone camera)	19:28
lcuk	"hey babe, look how pleased to see you i am"	19:29
dmj726	besides, given a few rubber bands, you can add a zoom lens	19:29
tekonivel	they could eat into the camera-market more deeply	19:29
SpeedEvil	You get VGA cameras 443mm or so	19:29
tekonivel	i wouldn't mind investing some pocket-capital for a proper zoom	19:29
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doc\|home	buy a camera :)	19:29
tekonivel	i'd much prefer a larger phone than having two devices (phone and camera)	19:30
tekonivel	atm i just don't have a camera. one device for all tasks	19:30
mgedmin	I once expressed a desire for a Nokia SLR running Maemo	19:30
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mgedmin	the flickr sharing option is fabulous	19:30
SpeedEvil	mgedmin: that would be nice	19:30
doc\|home	I'd prefer a canon slr running maemo	19:30
SpeedEvil	doc\|home: well - true	19:30
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tekonivel	a camera doesn't have anything i need (except proper zoom); a phone has all of it (most notably: network, more reasonable input methods)	19:31
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dmj726	that's the three device strategy, n900, netbook, and DSLR.	19:32
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tekonivel	i want two devices: n900+netbook. now i have n95+netbook	19:32
tekonivel	i dreamland i would have a table+bt keyboard+handsfree	19:33
tekonivel	s/table/tablet/	19:33
infobot	tekonivel meant: i dreamland i would have a tablet+bt keyboard+handsfree	19:33
dmj726	I have 2 devices: netbook and crappyphone	19:33
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dmj726	jkk and the other guy were going on about the 3 device strategy vs the 2 device strategy	19:34
dmj726	couldn't figure out what they meant by it.	19:34
Stskeeps	lcuk: no idea about ovi store. theoritically it should work out on n900 and forth..	19:34
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lcuk	Stskeeps mmm, on n900 with mer?	19:34
lcuk	or n900+maemo only?	19:34
Stskeeps	well, armv7 and up	19:35
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Stskeeps	when drm comes in the play we obviously cant do it	19:35
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Stskeeps	right, my server ram and mobo survived the PSU going into smoke	19:36
Stskeeps	thats good	19:36
tekonivel	my brain is melting from staring at text and mindmaps all day	19:37
tekonivel	is this a good way to spend a saturday-evening?	19:37
tekonivel	yes it is, but my brain is still melting	19:37
* tekonivel gets a drink		19:37
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tekonivel	he works for nokia	19:43
tekonivel	basterd	19:43
tekonivel	didn't ask what he does there exaclty	19:43
tekonivel	not developing, though	19:44
tekonivel	mindmaps are fantastic	19:46
tekonivel	i've been wondering how to utilize them on n900 (when i get one)	19:46
tekonivel	mindmeister.com (online) or freemind (natively)?	19:47
tekonivel	anyone tried mindmeister with n900?	19:47
tekonivel	freemind is java though, so no-go for n900 at this time	19:48
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tekonivel	also; n900+cybergoggles=bliss? anyone dared to try?	19:48
vladovg	hi	19:49
tekonivel	s/cybergoggles/head mounted display/	19:49
infobot	tekonivel meant: also; n900+head mounted display=bliss? anyone dared to try?	19:49
RST38h	tekonivel: At 15 minutes you get into a seizure and die, so no evidence	19:49
tekonivel	RST38h: a happy death?	19:50
RST38h	tekonivel: well, no idea if they had orgasms =)	19:51
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tekonivel	they were hyped about in the 90s, then i didn't hear of them for 10 yeards. now there's a model or two being sold on airports etc	19:51
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practisevoodoo	how can i get becomeroot for the n180?	19:52
practisevoodoo	i think that the eko1 site has removed it	19:52
timoph	install rootsh and use sudo gainroot	19:53
tekonivel	also, that dudewithn900andbeer said he's got a preproduction software installed, but that we's very fond of it	19:54
mgedmin	the only sw that exists is preproduction sw	19:55
lbt	~root	19:55
infobot	from memory, root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.	19:55
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lbt	~gainroot	19:55
* lbt waits for GeneralAntilles		19:56
qwerty12	~root-access	19:56
infobot	somebody said root-access was http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access	19:56
* lbt wonders if anyone has seen GeneralAntilles and qwerty12 at the same time...		19:56
tekonivel	mgedmin: an update was released last week or so? i guess he meant that he's not using the freshest sw but still has been enjoying his n900	19:56
GeneralAntilles	lbt, no.	19:56
GeneralAntilles	Since neither of us has gotten to a meetup. :(	19:57
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mgedmin	update? last week?	19:57
tekonivel	mgedmin: i don't know what he meant	19:57
tekonivel	mgedmin: anyhow the point is that he's enjoyed his n900. i'm sure he has	19:58
tekonivel	grrrr	19:58
mgedmin	maybe there are internal nokia-only releases	19:59
GeneralAntilles	mgedmin, there are dozens.	19:59
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tekonivel	mgedmin: yeah, who knows	19:59
Neostrider	hello folks	20:00
Meizirkki	Could someone post me the file-list of opengles-sgx-img-common-dev ?	20:00
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kitallis	yo luke-jr	20:06
kitallis	oops	20:06
lut4rp	:)	20:06
kitallis	lut4rp <--	20:07
luke-jr	...	20:07
lut4rp	heh	20:07
kitallis	luke-jr: nvm	20:07
luke-jr	-.-	20:07
lut4rp	luke-jr, bring out yer lightsaber!	20:07
kitallis	nmv -> no valium, mother.	20:07
luke-jr	stfu n00bs	20:07
kitallis	:S	20:08
lut4rp	lulz	20:08
Analias	Do the Maemo GTK+ libraries completely replace the "stock" GTK+ libraries from gnome.org?	20:08
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luke-jr	Analias: GTK+ is crap, don't use it	20:08
luke-jr	Qt4 replaces all GTK+	20:09
kitallis	:s	20:09
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v2px	what about maemo 5 and qt?	20:09
Analias	Kinda hard when I want to port Maemo 5 to a different platform	20:09
Stskeeps	like what?>	20:09
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Stskeeps	Analias: answer to your question is yes btw	20:10
qwerty12	Analias: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/g/gtk+2.0/ - the source of the GTK used in Maemo 5	20:10
qwerty12	Analias: You may also wish to look at Mer:	20:10
qwerty12	~mer	20:10
infobot	i heard mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer	20:10
luke-jr	Analias: Maemo isn't open source, so good luck with that	20:10
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Analias	ok - we are still on the SVN repository for GTK+ then.	20:11
Analias	to answer your question Stskeeps, I trying a port to a mini2440 under OpenEmbedded - getting the dependencies right is a bit of a challenge	20:12
Stskeeps	Analias: you will want to talk to rkirti	20:12
Analias	ah - yes - we haven't been on at the same time - I haven't emailed her yet	20:12
javispedro	hey, I have seen one of those	20:12
rm_you	bbl :/	20:12
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javispedro	iirc it's more like the hw of 770	20:13
* luke-jr notes the N810 can't run Maemo 5, let alone 770		20:13
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* Stskeeps notes luke-jr needs to take his happy pills.		20:13
homeasvs	I just installed scratchbox for diablo on my desktop. when starting up the interface, none of the applets are there, and I can't update apps in the application updater. There are a bunch of missing files on the terminal mentioned.	20:14
homeasvs	any idea what I might have done wrong ?	20:14
* luke-jr shoves his happy pills up Stskeeps's rear end.		20:14
luke-jr	:D	20:14
kitallis	:D	20:14
lut4rp	:D	20:14
kitallis	look i'm happy too ^	20:14
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lut4rp	Nokia displeases me.	20:14
Analias	The effort to port to the mini2440 is more of an exercise of learning everything needed for such an effort - it may not run on the mini2440, but it might be interesting to see how much does.	20:14
kitallis	Who's the bot here?	20:15
SpeedEvil	Analias: from ebay?	20:15
luke-jr	lut4rp: #FreeHandheld	20:16
SpeedEvil	Analias: brother has got 3 of them for in-house control stuff	20:16
Analias	SpeedEvil - There a US distributor now, also working on providing cases for the mini2440 and micro2440 boards	20:17
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SpeedEvil	Analias: an interesting platform certainly.	20:17
pupnik_	now there is a lot of n810 fun possible too	20:18
SpeedEvil	Analias: I'm looking at one to replace the control panel of my microwave, that has broken, and to add features.	20:18
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Analias	SpeedEvil: Check out http://andahammer.com/ then - I haven't had much experience with this guy but he seems eager to grow the community and make his customers happy	20:19
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lolmanbear	so i herd to buy n900 you gotta do stealing of maemo amirite	20:20
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SpeedEvil	interesting	20:20
GeneralAntilles	Anybody got the link to the blog post about Maemo's origins handy?	20:21
lcuk	SpeedEvil, your comment about upgrading your microwave sounds like	20:21
lcuk	tim the toolman tailor, from home improvement :D	20:21
GeneralAntilles	Ah, got it http://stezz.blogspot.com/2008/10/where-maemo-is-coming-from.html	20:22
SpeedEvil	lcuk: I have a huge stainless steel combi microwave.	20:22
lcuk	and i am thankful you are not near me when you "upgrade" it	20:22
SpeedEvil	lcuk: that's got a completely broken control panel, that would take 70-80 quid to fix - though the part is probably unavailable now.	20:22
tigert__	so	20:22
SpeedEvil	lcuk: the mechanics are just fine.	20:22
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tigert	oops	20:22
tigert	so	20:23
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: the interlocks would remain, as would much of the safety stuff. Just the controls and stuff would change.	20:23
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tigert	the noise removal stuff in N900 is highly dependant on available light	20:23
tigert	it doesnt do it for all photos	20:23
SpeedEvil	lcuk: for example, a mode to keep a constant humidity in the output by servoing the heating.	20:23
RST38h	tigert: No shit...	20:23
tigert	for good light you get pretty nice results, but for low light it does quite aggressive denoise and whatnot stuff	20:23
RST38h	tigert: I looked at some pictures I made in Amsterdam and Moscow	20:23
tigert	making it very crunched in 1:1 pixel size	20:24
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tigert	like, bar photos etc	20:24
RST38h	tigert: at 1:1 scale, the quality is absolutely dismal :(	20:24
lcuk	i was really impressed with the low light stuff	20:24
tigert	RST38h: sure	20:24
lcuk	better than i expected	20:24
tigert	but	20:24
tigert	it would be A LOT worse if it didnt do the processing	20:24
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RST38h	Well it is about the same as in N95 and friends	20:24
SpeedEvil	Where is the processing?	20:24
tigert	the trick of course is to do it as little as necessary	20:24
SpeedEvil	Can you get raw images?	20:24
tigert	I dont know how / what does it	20:24
RST38h	tigert: Of course it would be worse	20:25
RST38h	tigert: I have got quite a few problems with focusing though	20:25
tigert	but I was giving a lot of feedback there so it doesnt do it too much	20:25
tigert	at one point they did very aggressive filtering	20:25
RST38h	tigert: In the twilight we get most of the time here, it does not focus right =(	20:25
tigert	I am much happier with the curent stuff	20:25
tigert	where you get a bit of grain/noise as a drawback	20:25
tigert	but in return get a lot less detail loss	20:25
tigert	RST38h: havent seen those focus issues	20:26
tigert	sometimes when you try macro in dark conditions	20:26
tigert	it uses the focus help light	20:26
RST38h	tigert: They may not occur in good light, I dunno	20:26
tigert	and its way too bright and then it fails	20:26
tigert	so, it is not a SLR	20:26
RST38h	tigert: Haven't seen much daylight lately	20:26
tigert	but it is a pocket camera useful enough that I dont need another	20:27
tigert	RST38h: :)	20:27
tigert	daylight is getting scarce yeah	20:27
lcuk	tigert, perhaps it would be an idea to make a mini competition for image processing. use a set of photos and see which algorithms can be made to process them in minimal time	20:27
RST38h	tigert: On the other hand, the nights are pretty bright =)	20:27
tigert	lcuk: give it a shot	20:27
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tigert	lcuk: I bet you'd kick some serious arse there	20:27
lcuk	well its already being performed well by my eyes	20:28
tigert	but I am very happy it has pretty decent macro capability too	20:28
tigert	all in all the N900 is a darn nice mash-it-all-together device	20:28
tigert	sure you compare any feature with the market leader	20:28
lcuk	im just thinking quim has posted this UX/coding thing - user experience includes when looking at images	20:29
tigert	and it sucks - there are better cameras, better browsers I guess, better phones	20:29
tigert	but its the combo	20:29
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tigert	that rocks me at least	20:29
tigert	my Nikon does not make good phonecalls :)	20:29
tigert	anyway.. :)	20:29
lcuk	lol	20:29
tigert	enough of my i-work-for-nokia ranting	20:29
tigert	its not that objective anyway	20:30
RST38h	The camera is constrained by size anyway	20:30
tigert	http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/4059995053/	20:30
tigert	yeah	20:30
tigert	tiny sensors = noise	20:30
RST38h	So I guess nobody expects much from it	20:30
tigert	lots of noise	20:30
RST38h	tiny optics = no zoom	20:30
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tigert	yea	20:31
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* tigert prefers leg-zoom anyway		20:31
lcuk	tigert, theres no point in us trying to de-noise a jpeg encoded image. do you think you can find some reasonable pre-filtered test cases	20:31
GeneralAntilles	50mm 1.4!	20:31
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tigert	GeneralAntilles: I have 1.8	20:32
RST38h	lcuk: You should talk to ab	20:32
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lcuk	yes, i should	20:32
GeneralAntilles	tigert, the f/1.4 probably isn't justified by the price hike	20:32
RST38h	lcuk: He had plans to open up the image processing pipeline	20:32
tigert	GeneralAntilles: build quality though	20:32
GeneralAntilles	But the iris is much smoother and it's much less likely to fall apart in your hands. ;)	20:32
lcuk	yeah, im thinking for the test app	20:32
tigert	but the f1.8 is very nice for $100 :)	20:32
GeneralAntilles	My friend has gone through 3 f/1.8s now.	20:32
tigert	yeah	20:33
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tigert	its plastic	20:33
GeneralAntilles	More like $50-70 in the US for the Canon.	20:33
lcuk	RST38h, opening the pipeline is best case scenario :)	20:33
tigert	but takes good pics	20:33
tigert	yep	20:33
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lcuk	but for testing things there should be a shortcut	20:33
GeneralAntilles	I'd probably have gone with the f/1.8 if it weren't a 5-blade iris.	20:33
tigert	http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2486/4059995053_d3c019e349_o.jpg < the fullsize had some denoise kick in again	20:33
tigert	but in 1024 its pretty nice	20:33
tigert	http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2486/4059995053_ca79fe033d_b.jpg < 1024 wide	20:33
GeneralAntilles	http://media.the-digital-picture.com/Images/Other/Canon-50mm-Lens-Bokeh-Comparison.jpg	20:34
tigert	GeneralAntilles: http://www.diyphotography.net/diy_create_your_own_bokeh	20:34
GeneralAntilles	tigert, I did Christmas trees for the postcard photo last year.	20:34
tigert	GeneralAntilles: I thought that bokeh mask was a genius idea :)	20:35
homeasvs	is it normal to get in scratchbox diablo: /var/lib/hildon-application-manager/available-updates: No such file or directory ?	20:35
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Corsac	(i love my canon 50mm 1.8)	20:35
dmj726	the general impression I get when viewing n900 photos at full res is "impressionistic"	20:35
lcuk	ab, if you return can you just read small bit of scrollback. if you could get a few testcase unfiltered images together for us to play and compare things with it would be really helpful	20:35
GeneralAntilles	tigert, indeed.	20:35
GeneralAntilles	tigert, we had a DIY photography equipment book at work a few years ago that had all of this stuff in it.	20:35
GeneralAntilles	Really cool, wish I had bought it at the time since I haven't been able to find it since.	20:35
tigert	yeah	20:36
* lcuk will have to test proper photo printing from n900		20:36
tigert	the general impression I have of the N900 camera is: very useful in many situations :)	20:36
lcuk	take it to processor and see what they look like	20:36
dmj726	tigert: I agree	20:37
tekonivel	i'd love to do image editing on n900 (cropping, also freehand drawing, composing panoramas and also perhaps some goofy clipart) and also ocr	20:37
GeneralAntilles	tigert, I kinda still miss the N93 camera.	20:37
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dmj726	I can't even be bothered to take my point and shoot everywhere I go.	20:37
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RST38h	lcuk: As I never tire to say, just making something open source does not automagically jumpstart the development	20:38
tekonivel	RST38h: amen!!!!	20:39
tekonivel	RST38h: many people and organizatins think it does	20:39
RST38h	And they fail :)	20:39
tekonivel	RST38h: yes	20:39
tigert	its not trivial to create a community	20:39
lcuk	RST38h, no, but having an open documented pipeline will allow people like me to have a play and see	20:39
tigert	gnome and stuff kinda just happened spontaneously at first	20:40
tigert	to make one on purpose is probably harder	20:40
tekonivel	RST38h: the free will/time/attention of volundeer programmers is nto unlimited	20:40
lbt	I need the fremantle Packages.bz2	20:41
lbt	best way?	20:41
qwerty12_N810	X-Fade always gives something in return for sexual favours	20:41
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lcuk	crimson has no icon	20:41
lcuk	is that a blocker yet	20:41
lbt	qwerty12_N810: :P	20:41
* lcuk goes to correct chan		20:42
qwerty12_N810	lbt: The SDK one? :)	20:42
lbt	no	20:42
lbt	the device one	20:42
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qwerty12_N810	Ah, ooh	20:43
lbt	sdk armel might do	20:43
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lbt	need to work around the https	20:43
* javispedro needs to raise the issue of optification and -dbg packages		20:43
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qwerty12_N810	lbt: the sdk armel one (free) can be found here: http://repository.maemo.org/dists/fremantle/sdk/free/binary-armel/Packages	20:46
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lbt	that's useful ... thanks	20:47
lcuk	lol Jaffa	20:47
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Neostrider	gtg	20:49
Neostrider	[]s	20:49
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Jaffa	lcuk: I'm not sure it has any current karma, but the point stands	20:59
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lcuk	i agree	21:01
lcuk	having to start from scratch every single time is a bit pointless	21:01
lcuk	especailly with todays mission ongoing	21:01
lcuk	tho i refreshed a couple of mine at the start	21:01
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: so... feedback on my strings is as usual highly desired :)	21:01
Jaffa	lcuk: So did I, which is why I don't want to spend time now fixing it.	21:02
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Jaffa	timeless_mbp: Computer's only on to fix this damned bug. I've got some lurgy	21:02
lcuk	i mean right at the start	21:02
lcuk	ive got others	21:02
lcuk	i just told em not to bother	21:02
lcuk	its also linked with the "cannot remove own package"	21:03
lcuk	since you arent coding btw, why arent you testing others	21:03
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* timeless_mbp frowns		21:05
timeless_mbp	anyone know where "I agree." appears in the ui?	21:05
* timeless_mbp is watching Hudson Hawk		21:05
aloril_	"Maemo and N900: Many customization points for operators" http://electronics-5.blogspot.com/2009/10/maemo-and-n900-many-customization.html	21:06
lcuk	timeless, as a button	21:06
innociv	Wow.	21:06
lcuk	or as a message	21:06
innociv	This is a big channel fora phone's OS.	21:06
* aloril_ wonders why anybody would think operators could not customize n900? ;-)		21:06
timeless_mbp	innociv: it isn't a phone's os	21:06
timeless_mbp	it's a community for a platform that happens to run on a phone	21:06
timeless_mbp	and some other devices	21:06
Stskeeps	innociv: phone is just an app/Voice Over whatever like any other :P	21:07
innociv	How much software that works on basic desktop debian will work on maemo?	21:07
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innociv	I don't know if I want an n900 or moto droid. :[	21:07
Stskeeps	you'd probably want a n900	21:07
wazd	text aligned to the right	21:07
lpotter	agreed	21:07
Stskeeps	google for "easy debian"	21:07
innociv	You're biased. :x	21:08
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wazd	I can't beleive I really see it right now for myself	21:08
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Stskeeps	innociv: i was a SE phone user before gettng my n900. never going back. ever.	21:08
wazd	innociv: I'm not biased, buy Droid	21:08
innociv	Can I apt-get install apache mysql php on an n900? xD	21:08
tekojo	timeless_mbp I think "I agree" is in the app manager	21:08
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innociv	SE?	21:08
Stskeeps	sony-ericsson	21:09
timeless_mbp	tekojo: where specifically	21:09
timeless_mbp	tekojo: do you have my strings?	21:09
timeless_mbp	because usually i get something else :)	21:09
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: when installing a non-nokian package i think	21:09
innociv	It looks like apps must be ported, but they're easy to port. So I can't just install any peice of debian software..	21:09
tekojo	timeless_mbp no not on, but my guess is when you install something the annoying pop-up has I agree at the bottom	21:09
Stskeeps	innociv: there is a chroot environment	21:09
innociv	Oh. I don't care about sony-ericsson.	21:09
Stskeeps	which works quite well	21:09
timeless_mbp	innociv: how much debian software do you have that's armel	21:09
timeless_mbp	most people have intel software	21:10
innociv	I don't have any. :p I only use debian server right now.	21:10
timeless_mbp	so the fact that you have to recompile it ...	21:10
innociv	I see	21:10
timeless_mbp	doesn't make much difference... you had to recompile it either way	21:10
innociv	So any package that needs to be compiled will work?..	21:10
timeless_mbp	anyone know what a faint blinking red indicator means?	21:11
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innociv	"The ability to run largely-unmodified linux packages is the main difference compared to other Linux based mobile operating systems such as Android and webOS." Hmm.	21:11
timeless_mbp	innociv: no guaratnees	21:11
innociv	That's very what's the word.	21:12
timeless_mbp	s/tn/nt/	21:12
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: innociv: no guarantees	21:12
innociv	Intriging, capitvating.	21:12
timeless_mbp	it's possible to write an app for normal stuff that won't work on maemo	21:12
innociv	I see open office works on it.	21:12
Stskeeps	innociv: largely unmodified, yeah..	21:13
GeneralAntilles	innociv, if you want open, you want Maemo.	21:14
innociv	I don't like iphone because of how propriotary it is.	21:15
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timeless_mbp	btw, vibrate in a live IM talk is really annoying	21:17
KMFDM	yea it is	21:17
RST38h	Well, whoever skipped separate configuration for vibrate on each event is to blame	21:17
qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: They're thinking about their users...	21:17
KMFDM	i haven't figured out how to turn it off	21:17
KMFDM	can it be turned off?	21:17
RST38h	yes	21:17
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RST38h	By turning off the global vibrate setting	21:18
timeless_mbp	RST38h: our designers believe in simplifying things	21:18
innociv	only thing i dont' liek about the n900 is how much of the front of it /isn't/ a screen (I like the droids wider screen more), and the keyboard has QAZ in a straight verticle line(but keyboard quality is much better than droid)	21:18
* KMFDM sighs		21:18
innociv	I can just get a data plan and use skype with n900?	21:18
timeless_mbp	i believe that the best simplification is getting rid of them :)	21:18
innociv	What do you all use?	21:18
RST38h	timeless: Your designers do not seem to get to use what they design	21:18
timeless_mbp	innociv: i use my nokia provided cell plan	21:18
timeless_mbp	but skype just works (tm)	21:18
innociv	nokia provided cell plan? What country?	21:18
RST38h	But they can at least look at your S60 designers who have got the vibrate settings right	21:18
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KMFDM	i use a vodafone plan, but they block voip	21:18
dmj726	KMFDM: that's what tunneling is for!	21:19
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KMFDM	dmj726, true enough	21:19
KMFDM	but the FUP datalimit is so low that it is kind of pointless	21:19
dmj726	ah	21:20
timeless_mbp	innociv: Finland	21:20
timeless_mbp	the plan doesn't work as well in the USA, or so i'm told :(	21:20
KMFDM	it's 'unlimited' and 'unlimited' means 500mB/month	21:20
dmj726	not 5 gb?	21:20
timeless_mbp	thankfully i have the Finnish issued plan, so when I go to the USA tomorrow morning, I don't have to worry	21:20
KMFDM	dmj726, i wish	21:20
KMFDM	its 10x the average data usage of the average user on the network	21:20
* dmj726 doesn't as yet have a dataplan		21:21
KMFDM	apparently the average user is using 50megs a month	21:21
dmj726	they don't have n900s	21:21
KMFDM	timeless_mbp, aren't you worried about us customs confiscatng the device for inspection	21:21
timeless_mbp	why?	21:22
KMFDM	us customs may confiscate any electronic device	21:22
timeless_mbp	there are a bunch of devices that have flown to the us	21:22
KMFDM	and keep it for a very long period to inspect the data	21:22
timeless_mbp	KMFDM: ok... so?	21:22
dmj726	it's a terrorist phone because it's not locked	21:22
timeless_mbp	KMFDM: are you an American?	21:22
KMFDM	timeless_mbp, i just was curious if that concerned you. yes i am	21:22
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dmj726	just like apple says about jailbroken phones.	21:22
lcuk	KMFDM, they do that routinely with whole people, you think a small device will concern most..	21:22
KMFDM	but i no longer live there	21:22
KMFDM	lcuk, true enough	21:23
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timeless_mbp	KMFDM: i've also flown to countries where bribes are commonly required	21:25
timeless_mbp	i was much more worried about those countries	21:25
* timeless_mbp was in Ukraine for nearly a week		21:25
KMFDM	true enough i suppose	21:25
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pupnik_	KMFMS	21:32
pupnik_	somebpdy say "heyy~	21:32
* qwerty12_N810 boos pupnik_ off stage		21:33
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wazd	VDVsx: http://s53.radikal.ru/i139/0910/b2/c70d9b80c72d.png	21:34
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timeless_mbp	wazd: OK should be spelled as such	21:37
timeless_mbp	please fix.	21:37
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innociv	lol 500mb?	21:39
innociv	at&t is fucked over because average iphone user uses 400mb/mo	21:39
innociv	and their network can't handle it	21:39
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innociv	bbl	21:40
Jaffa	Gah, why is attaching screenshots so painful?!	21:40
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: to bugzilla?	21:40
_\|Nix\|_	Hey! How come you can't view a single extras-devel package @the package interface. It keeps timing out. Is this known to be broken?	21:40
Jaffa	to midgard/downloads	21:40
timeless_mbp	make a sharing plugin for it :)	21:40
wazd	timeless_mbp: OK	21:41
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Jaffa	_\|Nix\|_: maemo.org has nowhere near enough capacity, and that which it does have Midgard doesn't use well :(	21:41
qwerty12_N810	Jaffa: How long has it been taking for you? :)	21:41
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Jaffa	qwerty12_N810: 5-10 minutes so far. Last time, I stopped it and the screeenshot had actually been attached.	21:41
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_\|Nix\|_	Jaffa: I ask because I'd like to promote a package to extras-testing.	21:41
RST38h	Jaffa: "does not use it well" sees to be an understatement	21:41
timeless_mbp	_\|Nix\|_: please try my package :)	21:42
RST38h	Jaffa: 5 people use it at the same time, and it is already dead	21:43
qwerty12_N810	RST38h: 5? :)	21:43
javispedro	yeah. only Texrat is testing!	21:43
javispedro	i doubt a "bit beefier hardware" is going to help. we need a computer from top500.org	21:44
RST38h	qwerty: Count how many people are active on #maemo_testing	21:45
RST38h	qwerty: Now check out how long it takes to comment on a package	21:45
RST38h	qwerty: or vote for it	21:45
qwerty12_N810	RST38h: No, I was thinking < 5...	21:45
KMFDM	I haven't been able to get my phone to download the package list from the maemo testing repository since the testing marathon started	21:46
RST38h	qwerty: I suspect it takes tens of seconds even with ONE user	21:46
KMFDM	I just gave up at this point	21:46
KMFDM	it always times out	21:46
RST38h	qwerty: Whatever that Midgard thing does, it does wrong. Too bad nobody is thinking of phasing it out	21:46
qwerty12_N810	Mmm. I just want to see what the ISP move brings	21:47
Jaffa	RST38h: See "Actual Outcome" on my new comment on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4383	21:48
Jaffa	I think it actually works, but is just really buggy and shit.	21:48
* Jaffa really dislikes Midgard. It suffers from typical "we want to make a system which can do anything you want" problems; in that it does nothing well.		21:48
Jaffa	It's a reinvention of Lotus Notes without any of its redeeming features :-(	21:48
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_\|Nix\|_	So, /window 6	22:11
_\|Nix\|_	Ooops :)	22:11
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qwerty12_N810	I think it works better if you omit "So, " :'	22:11
qwerty12_N810	*:p	22:11
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timeless_mbp	hey	22:56
timeless_mbp	anyone alive?	22:56
courmisch	didn't you hear. It's nuclear apocalypse. Every body outside Helsinki is dead	22:57
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timeless_mbp	i need someone to printscreen views from the tutorial	22:59
achipa_irssi	party is in #maemo-testing	23:07
* GeneralAntilles braaaaiiins		23:10
* Proteous shoots GeneralAntilles in the head		23:11
* qwerty12_N810 shoots him again for good measure		23:11
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N810, see Zombieland yet?	23:13
qwerty12_N810	No :)	23:14
GeneralAntilles	Go!	23:14
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* timeless_mbp kicks a dvcs for mishandling symlinks		23:20
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JPohlmann	Hey guys	23:24
kami	hi @ll	23:24
JPohlmann	http://nopaste.com/p/aXy4tLdlO - any idea what this is about?	23:24
JPohlmann	Pulseaudio fails to install with the SDK install script.	23:24
JPohlmann	That's a fresh scratchbox installation.	23:24
GeneralAntilles	JPohlmann, 5 final?	23:25
JPohlmann	Yep	23:25
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GeneralAntilles	JPohlmann, don't have enough experience with the SDK to help, sorry.	23:28
JPohlmann	http://nopaste.org/p/a01tZpMkob - this is someone else's log which pretty much the same output I get	23:29
JPohlmann	It worked yesterday when I ran the SDK install script in an ubuntu VM. Today, outside the VM: no luck.	23:29
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