IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-10-27

GeneralAntillesSeriously, Ovi Maps is DANGEROUSLY non-functional.00:00
timeless_mbpfwiw, i've used ovi maps on trains00:00
timeless_mbpor rather... tried to00:00
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* timeless_mbp has decided to call it ovi maps even though the app clearly thinks it's nokia maps00:00
javispedrook. So we're going to torch for this disfunctioness ?00:00
javispedros/we're/who we're00:00
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timeless_mbpwell, someone already mentioned gate500:00
timeless_mbpthey're the perpetrators00:01
GeneralAntillesThe team that put this shit together could be fired and replaced by a half-dozen monkeys and they'd do a better job.00:01
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: That's just insulting to monkeys...00:02
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GeneralAntillesI mean, seriously, I don't think I've even seen a piece of software that runs more counter to general usefulness.00:02
lbtI started some tags "ovi maps" and "crap"00:03
timeless_mbpfwiw, there's a minor ui refresh coming for maps00:04
timeless_mbpit's supposed to be slightly better00:04
GeneralAntilleslbt and I hate you and your goddamn piece of shit TVR.00:04
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I might be satisfied if it managed to actually track my GPS position.00:04
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: did you turn on 'track me'?00:04
lbtGeneralAntilles: you can tell?00:04
GeneralAntilleslbt, what other car has a hood like that?00:05
* lbt consider's replying to Arii's blog... I'm not getting there, I'll tell you that!!!00:05
GeneralAntillesand I know you own one, so. . . . :P00:05
timeless_mbpfrom memory, if you don't turn on track me, the results aren't worth looking at00:05
javispedrook, so where can we vote to torch Ovi Maps and everyone who touched it?00:05
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, track me didn't do anything of the sort.00:05
timeless_mbpjavispedro: oh, please leave my one neighbor alone00:05
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: track me mostly breaks my ability to control zoom/orientation :)00:06
timeless_mbpit's very helpful for auto-mess-up-zoom and auto-disorient00:06
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lbtGeneralAntilles: indeed00:06
lbtall fibreglass - so the GPS had no excuses00:06
GeneralAntillesI like that it's almost impossible to get it back to North orientation.00:06
timeless_mbpthere are two guys here who liaise for maps00:07
anideltimeless the little ui change is the removal of that useless bar at the very center of the screen? tell me yes00:07
pupnik_when i attach n900 to pc usb, should i get lsusb entry for N900 even if kernel not booted?00:07
timeless_mbpanidel: they're moving it up a pixel or two00:07
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timeless_mbpwe told them to move it to the bottom of the screen00:07
lardmanpupnik_: if it's switched on, then yes00:07
GeneralAntilleslbt, private.00:07
timeless_mbp*I* told them that there's a reason dashboards are *below* the windshield instead of above00:07
anideltimeless: and their reply was?00:07
timeless_mbp"thanks for the input"00:08
lardmanpupnik_: even if it's just charging, it should enter usb flashing mode afaik00:08
timeless_mbpwhich is better than some of their replies00:08
anideltimeless: thanks for sharing00:08
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, somebody needs to get them to the next Maemo event so we can beat them up.00:08
timeless_mbpwhich were more like "oh, fixing that would be too expensive"00:08
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: that could be fun00:08
GeneralAntilleslbt, I'm going to make myself feel less inadequate by calling that an ugly paint job. :D00:08
lbtwe changed it00:09
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lardmanlbt: entering the fun time of year for you now then? ;)00:10
lardmanleaves, frost, etc00:10
lbtoh yes...00:10
lbtleary powerslides00:11
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pupnik_lardman, so to be clear, kernel does not need to boot, usb id is detected without software running on device?00:11
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, shipping Ovi Maps is going to be expensive.00:12
GeneralAntillesSoftware like that can kill a platform.00:12
lardmanpupnik_: no, kernel does boot, but only partway00:12
GeneralAntillesThey should take a page from Apple's book in this case. . . .00:12
Andrewfblwell me n900 came I today but I wasn't. home to sign for it have to wait til tomorrow now00:12
GeneralAntillesDon't ship features which are broken as all get out.00:12
GeneralAntillesAndrewfbl, that's why you leave a proxy at home!00:12
javispedroI'd say try to trick Navicore into another release.00:12
pupnik_if kernel does not boot, can i verify that usb connection physically exists00:12
javispedroAt least, the consensus seems to be it was better.00:12
Andrewfbllol I didn't know it was comingtoday00:13
lardmanjavispedro: reverse the data format and write our own app to use the data00:13
pupnik_rather electrically00:13
AndrewfblI almost want to call in sick tomorrow00:13
javispedrolardman: the app, not the maps itself. the maps were "meh".00:13
anidelandrew, you should.. or leave the proxy on :)00:13
javispedroAndrewfbl: your preorder?00:13
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Andrewfblno I'm getting pre release one00:14
pupnik_take it as an opportunity tp demonstrate how expendable your job position is.00:14
lardmanjavispedro: ah Navicore of course, how did Jaffa get on trying to get it to work with the stub? Or have I just missed that conversation?00:14
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javispedrono idea what you're talking about, so I guess it was me who missed the conversation :)00:15
lardmanjavispedro: long time back, before the summit, he was wanting to get Navicore running from N8x0 on N90000:15
lardmanbut was missing some stub library iirc00:15
javispedroah, cool. qwerty12_N810, learn a thing from him :)00:15
lardmanwriting the stub would be doable, was only the bluez/gps lib iirc00:16
* qwerty12_N810 mutters some choice curse words regarding hildon-home00:16
javispedroi will have a look at it if ovi maps is so awful.00:16
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* lardman is pleased that autofocus now works00:17
GeneralAntillesWell, hopefully we can get Maemo Mapper doing some more useful things with cellular.00:17
AndrewfblI would rather have navicore over maemomapper00:18
lardmanmm would be fine now with always on connection00:18
javispedroI too prefer offline autorouting.00:18
lardmanwould be good to have location of contacts (says he thinking about his accursed abook code)00:19
GeneralAntillesWell, Maemo Mapper is something we're likely to get00:19
GeneralAntillesand likely to have the ability to provide input on.00:19
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Oh, if you do look at it, it has a trial rather like Garnet VM...00:19
javispedrono, navicore is a more serious one00:19
javispedrowell, relatively.00:19
AndrewfblI just hate to lose all the money I paid for navicore00:20
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javispedroNavit dammit!00:20
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Firebirdjavispedro, any idea how I could keep SDL1.3 separate from 1.2? Right now, it just overwrites all files00:20
qwerty12_N810Note to self: One is not better off running hildon-home as root00:21
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javispedroFirebird: you mean -dev package?00:21
javispedrocause libs already work here00:21
Firebirdjavispedro, doesn't the lib overwrite?00:22
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javispedroFirebird: /usr/lib/ , /usr/lib/
anidelqwerty12_n810 what are you trying to do with it?00:22
lardmananyone know why this: sprintf(data, "0%s", data); has turned data into a bunch of 0s?00:22
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javispedro-dev packages are another story...00:22
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qwerty12_N810anidel: Writing a replacement for the operator name widget00:23
anidellardman what was in data before that?00:23
lardmana barcode00:23
anidelqwerty: why?00:23
lardman731453080423 to be exact00:23
qwerty12_N810anidel: Want to show my own thing there =)00:23
Firebirdjavispedro, could just move it to /usr/include/SDL13, would that work?00:24
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timeless_mbp lardman: you're trying to prepend a 0 to a string?00:24
timeless_mbpyou might want to consider memmove00:24
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lardmanis that considered better form?00:24
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lardmanfine by me if so00:24
anidellardman: was 0 or \0, I mean what you wrote here is correct, is it?00:24
javispedroFirebird: I've not read the details, but, anyway: there's a sdl-config script. You probably need to rename it to sdl13-config and patch it so that it returns correct path.00:24
lardmananidel: came out as all 000:25
timeless_mbplardman: i think you basically ate your own tail00:25
lardmantimeless_mbp: ok, will take a look00:25
timeless_mbp> Copies the values of num bytes from the location pointed by source to the memory block pointed by destination. Copying takes place as if an intermediate buffer was used, allowing the destination and source to overlap.00:25
lardmanhmm, should have been null terminated though00:25
timeless_mbpthe key is that last clause about overlapping00:25
timeless_mbpimagine a naive implementation which does this:00:25
timeless_mbpget pointer for output00:26
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timeless_mbpget first character from new string "0"00:26
anidelyeah you started copying 0 and then started reading 000:26
lardmanyeah I understand00:26
timeless_mbpwrite first character from new string to ...00:26
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anidelso it first write 0 to data[0] then reads data[0] to put it in data[1]00:27
anideland so on00:27
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lardmanok, fail on my part00:27
timeless_mbpit's a valuable lesson00:27
javispedroah, thanks Firebird!00:28
anidelcomputers always do what you tell them, not what you want them to do :)00:28
lardmanI blame the Americans for having 12 char UPC codes rather than 13 char EANs ;)00:28
Firebirdjavispedro, I think I only changed like one file in video/X1100:28
timeless_mbplardman: fwiw, having a 15 char buffer w/ the first char being a 0 and the last 2 being 0s00:28
timeless_mbpand starting at char 100:28
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timeless_mbpwould let you cheat00:28
timeless_mbpjust change your pointer to start at char 0 when you hit an american code00:28
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anidelmuch faster00:29
javispedroFirebird: understandable. but a start is a start! :)00:29
javispedroprobably, with the vaporware 3D drivers, we can even use it in N810.00:29
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javispedroForceware Vaporware Drivers. It's funny. Laugh.00:30
Firebirdjavispedro, when does that come? Its been two weeks since the announcement00:30
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: I wouldn't recommend stand up comedy as a career :)00:31
javispedroFirebird: dunno. I am asking myself the same.00:32
lardmananyone know of a gstreamer element that allows you to chop off the edges of your image>00:32
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* Firebird stands and says "You Lie" in the direction of TI in the voice of Rep Joe Wilson00:33
anidelnot me lardman00:35
derflardman: videocrop?00:35
lardmanderf: sounds promising00:35
anidellardman, you know that in italian "lardo" is "fat" ? I read your nickname and I think of fatman00:35
anidelnot that it is bad...00:35
lardmananidel: indeed, same in English ;)00:36
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anidelindeed? didn't know :p00:37
lardmanmore to do with cooking lard though in my case, though I am cultivating my beer belly, as I could only cook eggs & bacon when I went to uni00:37
anidelnew word (easy one) learned00:37
anidellardman we use lard instead of oil to cook pizza in some places.. very good00:38
lardmanyep, so s/lardo/lard and you're there for the Italian->English translation, but only for food, or being rude00:39
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lardmanwhat about gordo? Or is that my vague recollection of Spanish?00:39
anidelsame in italian for rudeness00:39
anidelingordo.. greedy00:40
javispedroyep, Gordo is fat too.00:40
anidel? that 'gordo'?00:40
javispedro"un gordo" is "a fat person".00:40
anidelspanish then?00:41
GeneralAntillesi.e., lardman00:41
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Flandryi step away for a few mintues and this degenerates into a discussion of Spanish grammar00:57
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lardmanhmm, cropping isn't ideal00:58
lardmantoo slow00:58
javispedroFlandry: well, nobody expects the Spanish Grammer Inquisition.00:59
javispedroSlowly stepping up in my stand up comedy career.00:59
qwerty12_N810javispedro: "grammar"00:59
* qwerty12_N810 hides00:59
lardman+1 qwerty12_N81000:59
Flandryso, my app made it through the autobuilder00:59
javispedrotypo of course :)00:59
Flandrysomeone with an N900 needs to see if the default controls will work01:00
qwerty12_N810Anyone with an N900: Does "dbus-send --print-reply --system --type=method_call /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net.get_operator_name" also return "can't find method"?01:00
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, well, they are Spanish. ;)01:00
timeless_mbpqwerty: gah01:00
Flandryi don't get it01:01
GeneralAntillesIf anybody needs a fun way to kill time:
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: yes01:02
javispedroJava game! Call in the Java Grammer Inquisition.01:02
qwerty12_N810Thanks, timeless_mbp01:02
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Firebirdaww, no java01:03
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rangeWhat's even worse.01:04
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rangeNo COBOL either.01:04
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lardmanhey BBNS01:06
lardmanI don't suppose you know how to enable macro mode do you?01:06
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BBNSlardman: nope. o_o01:09
lardmannp, auto focus is working01:09
BBNSlardman: oh wait, macro mode?01:10
BBNSlardman: try camerabin01:10
lardmanit didn't seem to like me01:10
BBNSlardman: i think there is code for that.01:10
lardmanyeah, there is code in libgdigicam01:10
lardmanbut I want a straight through pipeline, with no previews, etc., and I couldn't get it to play ball01:10
BBNSnot even trace the code of camerabin?01:11
lardmanwell actually not quite straight through, I have a tee and two queues01:11
BBNSit's inside gstreamer-camera01:11
BBNSah ok.01:11
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BBNSand gstreamer0.10-camera, that's the package name.01:11
BBNSor something like that.01:12
lardmanwould be good to see some example code, couldn't get libgdigicam to do anything useful01:12
BBNSforget about libgdigicam.01:12
lardmanI tried a straight swap for my pipeline to the camera-bin. but wasn't really too happy with it01:12
BBNSgo to gstreamer plug-in itself.01:12
lardmanok, will take a look at the source code01:12
BBNSand try to extract the element you need.01:12
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BBNSyou can reorganize the pipeline.01:13
pupnik_lardman do you determine orientation of barcode plane, or somehow manage to extract the info wiout determining it01:13
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lardmanah, set scene mode, nice01:14
lardmanpupnik_: depends on the barcode type01:14
lardmanfor 1D is not so important, for 2D is - talk to derf who wrote the QR code decoder01:14
pupnik_thats giving something back01:15
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derfpupnik_: QR codes have finder patterns which can be pretty reliably located regardless of the plane orientation.01:17
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derfSadly, there's only 3 of them, and you really need four.01:17
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pupnik_whoah nice.  add-on device eletronically alternates polarization of lcd projector beam offset by 90 degrees.   turn normal projector into 3d projector with passive glasses01:36
pupnik_someone finally made a product out of that01:37
Firebirdmmm, why does the autobuilder build slower than my computer :o01:37
timeless_mbpare you sharing?01:38
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: hey, what ever happened to that gettext package you had?01:38
timeless_mbpthe one i wanted in extras-devel01:38
Firebirdtimeless_mbp, was under the impression it built one thing at a time, hence the queue?01:38
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: The one I had is the one you can find in the SDK repo...01:38
timeless_mbpi thought it cheated and built a couple of things in parallel for unrelated people01:39
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: yeah, but i want it in extras-devel01:39
timeless_mbpso i don't have to ruin people's devices :)01:39
timeless_mbpthe sdk reop is so utterly broken01:39
timeless_mbpit really shouldn't exist01:39
qwerty12_N810It's not even current :(01:39
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lardmanNew mBarcode code here:
lardmanworking autofocus and macro, thanks BBNS01:42
GeneralAntillescode177, you do realize Extras is, like, right there, right?01:42
lardmanneed to debianise and move Amazon webscraping to AWS01:42
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: if you gave me the .changes file01:43
timeless_mbpis that sufficient for me to use w/ the files i got from apt-get source from the sdk repo?01:43
lardmanand fix N8x0 building too....01:44
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qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: If you already did an apt-get source on it, just go into the folder and "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa -i"01:44
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qwerty12_N810Just make sure that it is the one from the SDK repo, or Bad Things will happen01:45
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pupnik_congrats lardman01:46
BBNSlardman: nice! thanks =) so it's in camerabin pipeline?01:46
BBNShow you switch to marco mode?01:46
lardmangst_photography_set_scene_mode (GST_PHOTOGRAPHY (appdata->camera_src), GST_PHOTOGRAPHY_SCENE_MODE_CLOSEUP);01:47
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BBNSah nice. so same api.01:47
lardmanbut no, still a normal pipeline, didn't have to change that01:47
lardmanyeah same api, is good :)01:47
BBNSgot it. =) need someone to document it. otherwise it's easy to forget.01:48
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BBNSwould you mind writing it down? i guess phtography is very handy api.01:48
lardmanI'll do so, once I've got the above items sorted out01:48
BBNSthanks! =) very appreciated it.01:48
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: i can't get the build deps happy01:48
lardmananyway, must go to bed now01:49
lardmanBBNS: thanks for your help01:49
lardmannight all01:49
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Grr, use the SDK, already...01:49
BBNSgnite, lardman01:49
qwerty12_N810night lardman01:49
BBNSnp. =]01:49
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timeless_mbpbut i don't like the sdk!01:49
xnt14just got a crappy q-see dvr....01:49
timeless_mbphrm, url for the sdk-vm?01:49
xnt14apparently it looks like it runs linux01:49
qwerty12_N810timeless: Like Or Die =)01:49
timeless_mbpbah, fix zenity already01:50
* timeless_mbp pokes lbt 01:50
xnt14qwerty12_N810, want to try to help me get a shell?01:50
lbtsorry timeless_mbp, out of time for tonight... poke me again tomorrow night?01:50
timeless_mbplbt: hrm01:50
lbtOTOH my local OBS installed and runs now :)01:50
qwerty12_N810xnt14: Sorry, even if I knew what I was doing, DBus-GLib is keeping me busy01:51
timeless_mbpzenity should really have just installed01:51
timeless_mbpit's available in the extras-devel repo01:51
timeless_mbpwhich you had01:51
xnt14ah well01:51
* timeless_mbp goes to pokes builder01:51
lbtplus the battery is crying now01:51
xnt14hmm a port scan reveals nothing...01:51
qwerty12_N810night lbt01:51
timeless_mbpsleep well01:51
timeless_mbptry again in the morning01:51
lbtyeah, night all.... just posted an anti-ovi to planet too....01:52
lbtgo thumb it up!!01:52
lbtand comment01:52
GeneralAntillesI wont even proof this one first!01:52
xnt14lol 123456 as a root passwd :P01:52
lbtmay take a bit to appear01:52
pupnik_what niche does planet serve01:53
qwerty12_N810lbt: Is it in camelCase? =)01:53
lbtit's more an "I'm so disapointed in you :(" post....01:53
lbtmuch more cutting ;)01:53
* GeneralAntilles chuckles at baloo's post.01:53
lbtqwerty12_N810: GeneralAntilles wouldn't like that01:53
GeneralAntillesWhat did they expect?01:53
qwerty12_N810lbt: Grr, that damn General01:54
GeneralAntillesJournalists are stupid.01:54
lbthave you seen the BBC blog page though01:54
lbt*lots* of attention01:54
lbtand they like attention01:54
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pupnik_an app store is a good thing, not a bad thing01:56
GeneralAntillespupnik_, er, Maps.01:56
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: So, must I terminate you? =)01:57
pupnik_the maps worked ok for me.  what is problem?01:57
pupnik_except for that first gps lock01:57
GeneralAntillespupnik_, it's useless garbage.01:57
GeneralAntillesSlow, unusable garbage.01:57
fiferboyNo, shot went well01:57
pupnik_i guess i never tried anything 'good' then01:58
pupnik_except in the cars i was in, which are better at tracking01:58
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: By the way, I am going to start writing all my programs in python...01:58
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* qwerty12_N810 gets the AK ready01:58
* pupnik_ offers fiferboy a lifetime supply of heroin01:58
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: There's your answer. =)01:59
qwerty12_N810pupnik_ is high01:59
pupnik_no i am hungry for something besides leftover sphaghetti01:59
pupnik_the joke was to keep him from coding python01:59
fiferboyMy joke was the flu shot was driving me to code python01:59
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pupnik_now i get the sinister plot!02:00
xnt14hmm, I should call up q-see and ask for the sourcecode.....02:00
xnt14it *is* linux based..... :P02:00
airstrikewhere can i find maemo 6 UI guidelines, assuming they exist? or should i just stick to the legacy maemo 5 documentation from the tutorials?02:01 ;)02:01
GeneralAntilleslol, Maemo 5 is legacy already?02:01
GeneralAntillesMaemo 6 is at least a year away. . . .02:01
GeneralAntillesThis is clearly the problem with open roadmaps.02:02
timeless_mbpairstrike: first you need a time machine02:02
airstrikethat's what the tutorial says :P02:02
airstrikeit calls itself legacy02:02
derftimeless_mbp: A time machine in that direction is easy!02:02
GeneralAntillesFirst paragraph there.02:02
airstrikeyes, i've downloaded all of those02:03
lcukwow @ naming tho02:03
timeless_mbpyeah, naming fail02:03
airstrikebut as far as UI elements go, it hasn't changed a lot02:03
timeless_mbpFingrish WIN!02:03
lcukits a replaced set of documents02:03
lcukbut its not legacy yet02:03
GeneralAntillesen_FI is where it's at.02:03
airstrikei assume they mean those pdf's will be more up-to-date than the info on that link, but they're still very similar from what i can tell02:03
airstrikebut alright, i had no idea maemo 6 was a year away02:04
timeless_mbpairstrike: part of this is your fault for not reading the fine print carefully02:04
lcukbah no its not02:04
timeless_mbpand most of this is the fault of the finns for not talking to the native speakers who work nearby02:04
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lcukthats just badly worded02:04
GeneralAntillesSo, Porche's got a sedan now. Any bets on when they're going to make a minivan?02:04
* timeless_mbp will slap them tomorrow/today02:04
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lcuktimeless, :D you might get shown the door02:05
timeless_mbpjust their office door :)02:05
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GeneralAntilleslcuk knows what that's about. :P02:05
airstriketimeless_mbp: one could either blame my lack of attention to fine print or the designer's notion of text hierarchy (or lack thereof) ;)02:05
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timeless_mbpairstrike: i'll blame both, it's easier that way02:06
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lcukok, so before they were legacy02:06
lcukgoogle had a fix on the title02:06
lcukthen they were moved to
timeless_mbpand if you both learn a lesson, all the better :)02:06
lcukand renamed02:06
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xnt14hmm, this is the name of the fw update file on their website ;) TD2316_2.7.0_CIF_090915_US02LG_EN1.tar02:06
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timeless_mbpi'm sure google rightly penalizes FN for its awful structure02:07
timeless_mbpis signing optional for builder?02:09
lcuki believe so02:10
lcukit used to be required02:10
lcukbut lots had problems02:10
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anidelnight guys02:12
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qwerty12_N810night anidel02:13
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: it is, indeed02:13
* GeneralAntilles finds it obnoxious that farmers are insisting on breeding all of the fat out of avocados.02:13
lcuknite anidel02:14
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crashanddielast cigarette and then I'm out 'till California02:16
pupnik_at some point people are going to want energy in their food again02:16
pupnik_good luck with that02:16
crashanddieenergy in their food?02:16
lcukhave a great trip seb :)02:17
pupnik_energy, fat, carbs, sugars02:17
crashanddielcuk, thanks guv02:17
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, don't get accosted by any backrupt Californians.02:17
timeless_mbpwhere's the web ui to watch the builder queue?02:17
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I'm not talking to anyone unless they are hot and have a natural pair of boobs02:17
GeneralAntillesThe Extras assistant?02:17
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crashanddie"Natural boobs" is probably cutting the list quite short02:18
GeneralAntillesIn CA, anyway. ;)02:18
lcukor<package name and version>/02:18
timeless_mbplcuk: that so doesn't count02:18
lcukwhich do you need :P02:19
timeless_mbpthat last one02:20
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crashanddieson of a bitch02:20
timeless_mbpX-Fade: could someone please fix the queues to not wrap so aggressively ?02:20
crashanddielight is giving up on me just for my last fag before 24h02:20
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, it's a sign!02:20
timeless_mbplcuk: ok... so what does that mean anyway?02:21
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, and I'm a smoker, I've got lighters all over the fucking non smoking room :P02:21
lcuktimeless, items drop off the queue and without the other links go into a blackhole until you hear about it on inbox02:23
lcukthe other links let you see em02:23
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crashanddieI wish I had mod points:
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timeless_mbplcuk: so... where is gettext now?02:27
timeless_mbp has it02:28
lcukxfade says it takes upto an hour to end up in the repos02:28
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lcukif it passed02:28
lcukbut its not finished building yet has it02:29
lcukits copying stuff over atm02:29
lcukthis is a completed build:
lcukthe file layout here is the same02:30
lcukyours will build into that02:30
lcukand results sent to you when completed02:30
crashanddiebye bye all02:30
lcukcya seb02:31
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lcuktimeless, its goin a bit slow!02:57
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penguinbaitwell speed things up03:01
lcuki meant his build :P03:01
penguinbaitI stand by the statement03:01
lcukyou are the council, please go and switch the builder into "performance" mode03:01
penguinbaitThats a lot of paperwork03:02
penguinbaithows the job hunt going?03:03
lcukas well as i can expect, but i wont know until the day i get one03:04
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lcukive gotta go to town tomorrow for some local job stuff03:05
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lcukFirebird, w00t03:08
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mau_mexHi everyone03:27
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solarionpupnik_: hey03:37
pupnik_hi sir solarion03:37
pupnik_what can we make n900s do that will sell beelions?03:38
pupnik_lardman is on the right track03:38
pupnik_- stufflikethat -03:38
* pupnik_ waves hands vaguely03:38
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* lcuk has ideas03:39
lcukdo something your competitors arent doing, and do it well03:39
lcukfind new markets which have been abandoned by iphoneism03:39
* solarion only does niche things03:39
* solarion is very sad to not know when he'll get the hardware03:40
lcukfor every iphone person out there, there are 100 who want a phont that does the job solidly and reliably without flashy gimmicks03:40
lcukthe people who dont "get" gestures03:40
solarionlcuk: then the n900 isn't for them.03:40
lcukor strange flashy ui03:40
lcuknot dextrous enough03:40
lcuksolarion, it is03:40
derfIt's nothing to do with "dextrous".03:41
code177evening all03:41
lcukhave you ever seen an older person trying to swipe?03:41
derfIt's about being able to do something repeatably, when you have no feedback other than "success" or "failure" at the end.03:41
* lcuk nods03:41
lcukhi code17703:41
code177i've been busy making myself unpopular lol03:41
solarioncode177: don't we all03:42
lcukcool, which thread?03:42
solarionI want chocolate03:42
derfI play piano. My fingers are plenty dextrous. I cannot _stand_ gestures.03:42
lcuk:) derf03:43
derfI've actually entirely disabled the touchpad on my laptop.03:43
lcukderf, on the n90003:43
lcukyou can disable the extra desktops03:43
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lcukand so it doesnt try to swipe on the front03:43
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derflcuk: Good.03:43
lcukand every button press is solid and reliable03:43
solarionThe Apple ad misses the part where Mac takes her box and puts a big honking lock on it03:43
kynkycomparing the iphone to windows mobile, windows mobile can run many apps at once, but not exactly the most stable/smooth experience03:44
lcukderf, the haptics make buttons presses feel right03:44
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lcukits obviously not perfect, but its a lot better than nothing03:44
derflcuk: So absolutely nothing like the N810?03:44
lcukdunno, never feflt a rumble on 81003:45
lcukcode177, its a bit of a can of worms03:45
derfI just meant pressing the buttons on the keyboard.03:45
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lcukoh, the hard keyboard is different - i meant onscreen presses03:45
derfThey were ridiculously hard to press, and it's next to impossible to tell if you've pressed one or not.03:45
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code177lcuk: I'll say03:46
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derflcuk: Ohhh.03:46
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lcukget your hands on one, lots of folks have been pleasantly surprised by the keyboard03:46
* lcuk is too03:46
derfWell, it would be hard to be disappointed, unless it were the same.03:46
lcuklots are saying its better03:46
lcukthat smaller actually helps03:47
lcukfor reach with thumbs etc03:47
lcukpeople at barcamp were more than impressed03:47
derfAnyway, you don't need to sell me on the thing.03:47
lcukyou sure03:48
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lcukcode177, i just closed rather than posted something big and long03:48
derfWell, I had second thoughts after they snubbed me with the developer program.03:48
mau_mexhi, have someone use the N900 with a carkit as a Nokia end eaven an "N" series I dobt it have any problem , but want to know (A2DP & AVRCP) profiles03:48
code177lcuk: *facepalm03:49
lcukno code177 i need to think more before i get involved :)03:49
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code177which side of the fence are you coming down on then03:49
lcuki am the fence03:49
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code177I'm not sure really why my question caused so much kufuffle03:50
lcukits been brewing for a while03:50
code177i ant to sell my app, and give it away to my pals03:50
code177seems reasonable03:51
code177yeah i guess it was bound to come up eventually03:51
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lcukit all depends on the history of the app03:51
lcukand what libs it uses03:51
code177FOSS mindset vs I-Have-Bills-To-Pay  mindset too.03:51
* lcuk nods heavily. i have bills to pay and very open source principles.03:52
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code177you must be very tormented ;)03:53
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lcuknot tormented, just worried whether ill find a path so my ideas can flourish :)03:54
code177defo an issue though03:55
code177well i've done community stuff on the net for years.. i've learned one thing03:55
code177fame is awesome, and giving to people make syou wamr and fuzzy inside. It also looks good on your resume if you do something really awesome. In the end I lost a lot of hours and money and had nothing to show for it, because the internet world keeps on spinning.03:56
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solarioncode177: which user are you on tmo?03:56
code177I plan to sell out the first opportunity i get03:56
code177code177 lol03:56
solarionmust've missed it then03:56
solarionah, yep03:56
* solarion is dumb ;)03:56
lcukim in a catch 22, i want to continue developing and polishing liqbase but if i find a job i have to realistically concentrate there and pull back from liqbase (unless the job was liqbase), or the family gets no food03:57
solarionis the dev discount the same for us and europe?03:57
solarionthat kinda sucks03:57
solarionstill is $100 off, tho03:57
code177See the thing is, I only wanna sell my app for like, one euro03:58
* solarion can't be called to be biting the hand that feeds him, so he can say that. ;)03:58
solarionI just want a "donate" button03:58
code177I'd like a donate button too but nobody ever pressed them03:58
solariondrop-down list with common numbers, or fill in the blank03:58
solarioncode177: that's a human factors issue03:58
code177lol, read that as "fill the bank"03:58
lcukdo that for all apps03:58
code177was like, hell yes.03:58
lcukthe developers of open or closed just set a minimum03:58
solarionput a drop-down with a sane default and a donate button that works just like buy03:59
lcukopen has to set 003:59
code177that's a really good idea03:59
lcuklet users choose what they want for everything - so if billgates really likes an app even if its closed he can support the devs03:59
lcukand pay $10000003:59
solarionlcuk: nah, make the default a small, generally agreeable amount (EUR5 or something)03:59
code177lol 5 euros is like 8 bucks03:59
solarionyou pay more for a cup of coffee; people will probably hit that04:00
lcuksolarion, the default level will find itself for closed apps04:00
lcukentirely their choice04:00
solarioncode177: and it's like a bajillion turkish lira; so?04:00
solarionin the US, make it $504:00
code177ya ok04:00
solarioniirc, coffee was around EUR504:00
code177for the record04:00
code177it's 11 turkish lira04:00
solariondid they redefine their currency like .ro?04:01
code177nope maybe you're thinking of some other place?04:01
code177maltese lira perhaps?04:01
solarionI don't think so04:02
solarioncould translate it into lei vechi, if they were still legal currency. ;)04:02
solarionthe lei rate is 1 RON = 10,000 lei vechi. ;)04:03
* lcuk sleeps anyway04:05
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pupnik_ohhh...     Airport Security Discussions04:08
SpeedEvilpupnik: If it goes really wrong - fall back on skills developed through
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fureddoWhat's the standard keyboard accelerator to quit an application on Fremantle's applications?04:10
GeneralAntillesThere isn't one.04:11
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GeneralAntillesctrl-backspace and tap X.04:11
solarionnews just said hand sanitizer is 60% alcohol and that it's flammable04:11
pupnik_awesome SpeedEvil04:12
pupnik_scary stories04:12
fureddoGeneralAntilles, So there are 2 standard keyboard accelerators to quit?04:12
GeneralAntillesUm, no?04:12
GeneralAntillesThere are no _shortcuts_ to quit.04:12
fureddoGeneralAntilles, Ah!  Ok, then.04:13
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Flandryanything over 100 proof will burn, yeah04:22
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infobotI herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power05:35
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GeneralAntillesAh, Addison, classy as usualy.05:37
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Ah, Addison, classy as usual.05:37
zerojayGeneralAntilles: What is he doing now? lol05:38
zerojayCan themes also change ringtones?05:40
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esaym153anyway to adjust how quickly the n810 adjusts the backlight to changing light conditions? At default it seems slow to change the light output...05:55
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pupnik_good question05:58
Xisdibikdo any of you linux savvy people know what this means? :)
pupnik_what are you doing to that poor n90006:02
Xisdibikwasnt in n90006:03
Xisdibikwas trying to boot a Fedora 12 beta live USB ;)06:03
Xisdibikbut i like you guys better so i asked here ;)06:03
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pupnik_ah, thanks06:03
pupnik_just as confused now, but not caring06:03
tarek__Hey, are there any chances the USB host mode can be enabled on the n900?06:04
pupnik_but maybe workaround with a powered hub06:05
pupnik_not sure bout that06:05
Xisdibikwell maybe they are enabling it with the extra month they have our precious phones? :(06:06
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tarek__I hope so06:06
tarek__I can't wait anymore :D06:06
Xisdibikthat and a true compass: D06:06
pupnik_would you rather deal with a seperate power plug and no usb charging - to get host mode?06:07
tarek__I want the whole package :D06:07
pupnik_then next device may need two usb ports, one for trickle charging, the other for host mode.  from what i read.06:07
infobotpupnik_ meant: then next device may need two usb ports, one for  charging, the other for host mode.  from what i read.06:08
Xisdibikpupnik_: if they have a USB to proprietary power plug adapter then sure06:08
Xisdibikor two usb ports06:08
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pupnik_they might be able to violate usb spec and allow both charging and host mode someday06:09
pupnik_but nokia can't hand-roll all their parts06:09
pupnik_micro-usb or smth06:09
pupnik_i'm just parroting what i read recently so don't quote me06:09
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Xisdibikim actualy not caring that much about host mode06:10
Xisdibiki havnt ever thought of a situation i need it06:10
XisdibikI guess im not as hardcore as the rest of you guys ;)06:10
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pupnik_it does cut down on the swiss army knife factor06:11
pupnik_but the device includes so much already..06:11
pupnik_but for e.g. you could do kickbutt multichannel recording with the 3430 speed06:12
pupnik_with a nice external adc box with own battery power06:12
pupnik_something by apogee perhaps06:12
pupnik_and the recording studio goes with you on lunch break06:12
pupnik_except, no. oops.  no host mode.06:12
Xisdibikbut do i do kickbutt multichannel recordings?06:13
Xisdibikin all honesty i dont even know half of what you said :)06:14
pupnik_it would be a niche application that rapidly-developed maemo app could fill perfectly06:14
pupnik_e.g. ovi store.  and pay to heat my butt in winter.06:14
pupnik_tellin ya, recording engineers would enjoy this clutter ui and slidey things06:15
pupnik_not something they'd need to pull out the stylus to use06:16
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Xisdibikis anyone here super familiar with Conky the sysinfo program06:17
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tarek__seems not06:19
Xisdibikthats fine :)06:19
tarek__I used it some time ago06:20
tarek__but I don't consider myself a super familiar. or even familiar06:20
Xisdibiki cant seem to find online, or through people i know who use it,   if it supports unicode text (specifically for asian character's being displayed)06:20
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tarek__I would like to know if it supports arabic too :)06:21
Xisdibikwell ill try to remember to let you know if i ever find out06:24
Xisdibikid be curious to see if someone can port over iBus to maemo06:28
Xisdibikwould be awesome for typing in other languages06:28
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tarek__you made me notice something06:31
tarek__the device might not be released in egypt (my country) due to lack of arabic support!06:32
tarek__now i'll panic06:32
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timeless_mbptarek__: define lack of arabic support06:37
timeless_mbpnote that the original target markets for the n900 clearly do not include countries w/ RTL or Ruby requirements06:38
tank-mantoo good to be true? -> NOKIA N900 NEW QUAD BAND GSM UNLOCKED Call me for pick up - $375
timeless_mbpthat said, more testing has been done for RTL support w/ the n900 than i expected (i was actually surprised that we did any testing at all)06:42
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timeless_mbptank-man: odd06:42
tarek__arabic is not in the lang specs. Neither is any other RTL like you said06:43
Xisdibiktank-man: maybe a prototype/06:43
tank-manlast line sound sarcastic tho "Please call me and tell me exactly when to take my day off from work so i can show you the phone."06:43
Xisdibiktarek__: just learn english and teach egypt english, then your set ;)06:43
Xisdibikimho thats a small sacrifice for a n90006:44
timeless_mbpis egypt one of those funny countries w/ rules about devices w/ integrated gps?06:44
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp: did you happen to read the thing i mentioned about ibus,  do you think it would even be remotely possible to do?06:44
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tarek__Egypt used to ban gps, but not anymore06:45
tarek__And I always thought that was funny06:46
tarek__and I speak English quite good :)06:46
timeless_mbpanyway, my vague impression is that we were not actively targeting the middle east with this device06:46
timeless_mbpbut some groups filed bugs against the browser complaining about its handling of RTL pages06:46
Xisdibikby the way, whats RTL stand for>06:47
timeless_mbpi can't remember if we fixed the relevant bugs, but i'd expect that if we get a chance to update the browser, we will fix the one main bug06:47
tarek__right to left?06:47
timeless_mbpXisdibik: you write sentences from Left-to-Right06:47
Xisdibikonly because they make me!06:47
timeless_mbpin the Middle East, most languages are written the other way around06:47
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timeless_mbpIt makes for fun problems06:48
pupnik_us pentagon investing more heavily in occupation technology06:48
pupnik_wrong chan dammit!06:48
Xisdibiki can see that being an issue timeless_mbp  :)06:48
Xisdibikhow about my question :D06:48
timeless_mbpi think i was sleeping :)06:48
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp: did you happen to read the thing i mentioned about ibus,  do you think it would even be remotely possible to do?06:49
timeless_mbpwhat is ibus?06:49
Xisdibikthere it is for you again ;)06:49
Xisdibikits like SCIM, or microsofts IME06:49
timeless_mbpno, i was sleeping the first time you mentioned it06:49
timeless_mbpsorry, and what do you want to do, plug in an IME that actually works?06:50
Xisdibikthe japanese one works extremely well, sofar as well as microsofts IME06:50
Xisdibikwell it allows me to type in japanese using an english keyboard06:50
Xisdibiklike so:   こんばんわ06:50
timeless_mbpmy favorite oddity about our platform is that we've internally had a fairly good IME for chinese iirc06:50
timeless_mbpbut we never shipped it06:50
timeless_mbpthis dates to maemo 1 iiuc06:51
Xisdibikwell take a look at ibus06:51
Xisdibikits very handy06:51
Xisdibiknot many dependancies either06:51
timeless_mbpthis is unlike rtl, where most of the apps had no testing until recently06:51
Xisdibikand i know theres at least a QT4 module for it06:51
timeless_mbptarek__: if i were management, and i'm not06:52
timeless_mbpi'd look around and say "ooh, Qt claims to have great RTL support, we can magically ship a Qt based product to RTL countries"06:52
timeless_mbp(totally bogus logic)06:52
timeless_mbpit's probably worth noting that the user guide for the n810 was also available in arabic06:53
* timeless_mbp never quite figured out why06:53
tarek__well I don't really need the RTL  support06:53
tarek__I just want the phone06:53
timeless_mbpthen you don't have a problem :)06:53
Xisdibiktarek___ does arabic have a way of writing arabic using english or latin characters?06:53
timeless_mbpXisdibik: yes06:53
Xisdibikcan you write a sample word for me?06:53
timeless_mbpbut i'm not sure what portion of the population can deal w/ it06:53
timeless_mbpthere's one or two countries which actually went that way06:53
* timeless_mbp is too asleep to remember which/where06:54
tarek__it's a mix between letters and numbers06:54
Xisdibiki see06:54
Xisdibikunfortauntely i just checked the microsoft IME and they dont have arabic :(06:54
tarek__it's used in all of the middle east06:54
Xisdibiki was going to test it out :(06:55
Xisdibiki guess i can just try the arabic (101) keyboard layout06:55
tarek__there is microsoft marine that does transliteration to arabic letters from this way of writing06:55
tarek__and maren06:57
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timeless_mbphave people tried (ms) seadragon on their n900?06:57
tarek__google does that too06:57
Xisdibikwhats seadragon?06:57
Xisdibikand send me my n900 and maybe i will ;)06:57
tarek__timeless_mbp: are you in the maemo development?07:00
tank-manthat seadragon is so slow on my desktop07:00
timeless_mbpi work on the browser for maemo, yes07:00
timeless_mbptank-man: heh07:00
tarek__so you're in mozilla too07:01
tarek__that's nice07:01
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* timeless_mbp sings 1600 bugmails on the wall ... take one down, read it around, ... 1599 bugmails on the wall07:03
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tarek__got to go now07:04
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GAN900<3 Comcast07:06
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Flandrycrunch:~$ /opt/scratchbox/login07:07
FlandryERROR: Scratchbox is not properly set up07:07
Flandryyou've got to be kidding me07:07
Flandrythat's the third time the sdk has self destructed07:07
* timeless_mbp takes away Flandry 's license07:08
timeless_mbpget a vm, and use baselines07:08
Flandrytake away Nokia's license07:08
Flandrythere's just no excuse for a dev platform that dies every 24 hours07:09
lcukextreme programming.  get it done, the clock is ticking07:09
Flandryoh i see, it's a feature, not a bug :P07:09
timeless_mbpyou're the first and only person i've heard of with a disintegrating scratchbox07:09
lcukno, hes not07:10
timeless_mbpnah, lcuk 's practicing to join the marketing team07:10
lcuki just woke up to find my sdk has orange light07:10
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lcuktimeless, think positive about everything :P07:11
timeless_mbplcuk: are you testing my strings? :)07:11
zerojayFlandry: You're doing something to kill it. I'd like to know what.07:11
timeless_mbpi'm positive you could help me improve their quality if you tried07:11
lcuki was sleeping until 2 minutes ago07:12
timeless_mbpit's ok, you don't have to test them while you sleep07:12
lcuki agree, i can give you a hand tomorrow properly after im done with fam stuff07:12
lcuki think i sussed the rgb cover screen for liqbase07:12
lcukit takes about 0.75 seconds to convert YUV overlay image into an x11 pixmap07:13
Flandryi don't know what i could be doing different than everyone else07:13
lcukim gonna push that onto the window, and close the overlay07:13
lcukif i can startup my sdk07:13
Flandrythis time around, i realized that the audio in SDK had died somewher along the way07:13
Flandryso i rebooted the system07:14
lcuktheres audio?07:14
Flandryscratchbox dead...07:14
timeless_mbphow did you reboot?07:14
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timeless_mbpsorry, i don't trust you07:14
Flandryi pushed the any key07:14
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lcukbattery was overcharged07:19
lcukhow curious07:19
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* lcuk sleeps07:19
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cvandonderenhmmm, can it be correct that the account-plugin-haze update from sunday doubles the battery usage?07:32
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johnxcvandonderen, as in battery drains twice as fast?07:35
cvandonderenjohnx: yup07:35
johnxif that is the case it would explain my experience today07:35
cvandonderenI think libpurple0 is doing some weird stuff07:36
cvandonderenbecause I was even set to 'offline avaliability'07:36
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cvandonderenand still it drained like crazy and I didn't instal anything else07:36
RST38huninstall it and see07:41
RST38hheya johnx07:41
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johnxhey RST38h07:42
pupnik_do we have power usage logging to mmc07:43
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pupnik_or website - might be fun to share use profiles as long as no privdata were shared07:44
pupnik_opt-in collect powertop type stats07:45
johnxcvandonderen, there's another update available today. I'm going to try installing that and see if it helps :)07:45
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jaemevening folks07:47
luke-jrpupnik_: wouldn't the MMC for logging increase the power use?07:47
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johnxluke-jr, if it was done intelligently the increase would be trivial07:47
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jaemany chance someone with an SDK install could build me a binary of $arbitrary serial terminal for Diablo?  I don't need it packaged or anything fancy, but I won't have access to my build box in time for a project deadline07:49
jaemminicom or something would work07:49
luke-jrjohnx: if things were done intelligently, KDE 4.3 would use 32 MB RAM at most07:49
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johnxluke-jr, apples and oranges07:50
cvandonderenjohnx: which update?07:50
cvandonderenlibpurple0 is still the one from 24-10-0907:50
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johnxi was thinking the account plugin haze was new, but it's actually just not installable for me :/07:52
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cvandonderenwell, 24/7 charging for me then till the update comse :-P07:53
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RST38hjohnx: there is a cross-dependency problewm08:12
RST38hjohnx: You have to remove haze and idle first, then install the new versions08:12
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johnxRST38h, yeah, guessed that :)08:34
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wazdmornin' everybody08:43
jaemhi, wazd08:43
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* timeless_mbp pokes people08:49
* timeless_mbp wants testers08:49
jaemperson is poked08:49
jaemfor what?08:49
jaemrequirements for testing?08:49
jaemnot yet!08:49
timeless_mbpyou could test the tool on an n8x008:50
timeless_mbp(or mer)08:50
jaemokay, sure08:50
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tekojotimeless_mbp what tool, you got me interested if it's on-device08:55
timeless_mbpit is08:56
tekojoOk, I can be a guinea pig08:57
timeless_mbpwoohoo :)08:58
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timeless_mbpnote that you guys get to be guinea pigs for the streamlined version of things08:58
timeless_mbpwell, at least tekojo08:58
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_Pete_what I need to do to enable ssh-logins via my wlan-network where n900 is connected to?09:05
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timeless_mbpopenssh-server ?09:07
_Pete_it has that09:08
_Pete_and is in rd mode09:08
timeless_mbpyou don't really want to use rd mode09:08
_Pete_logins work via usb-network but when connected to wlan not even ping passes between desktop<->n90009:08
_Pete_I do since I develop for n90009:08
* timeless_mbp doesn't use usb networking09:09
timeless_mbpyou probably need to fiddle w/ routing09:09
timeless_mbpiirc there's a package to help w/ that09:09
Corsachey there09:09
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_Pete_timeless_mbp: ic, any hints about packagename ?09:11
timeless_mbppc connectivity perhaps?09:11
* timeless_mbp shrugs09:11
* timeless_mbp would suggest using WiFi to connect desktop to n90009:12
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Passeli_Pete_: maemo-pc-connectivity09:27
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_Pete_Passeli: thx09:31
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_Pete_Passeli: ?09:58
_Pete_that only speaks setting usb-network, which already wors09:59
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hrwquestion: does application manager in fremantle allows to select few packages to install?10:15
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yigalman maemo has changed so much since the n900, maemo is so much better than Android I hope people see that truth, man i'm drunk :)10:17
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qwerty12_N810hrw: Hiya. Nope, it's still in true Maemo style: one package at a time :-)10:19
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JaffaMorning, all10:21
hrwqwerty12_N810: crap10:21
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yigalmorning wow that elicited quite an outburst from hrw :)10:22
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Khertan <<--- make me feeling that it ll be simpler to make my own repository and my own bugtracker ? back to the time when we got many repository ?10:28
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Khertanjeremiah: hi, are you here ?10:29
X-FadeKhertan: just ping andre to create you a component in bugzilla?10:30
KhertanX-Fade: hum ... and does i need to ping it every time i made a new version to create it too ?10:31
hrwyigal: ;D10:31
hrwmaemo still has python 2.5.x not 2.6.x?10:31
Khertanhrw: yep10:31
hrwthe worst thing is that "maemo is based on Debian" but is not compatible with any release of Debian rather10:32
Khertanhrw: did you want to have a outdated system ? </troll>10:33
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hrwKhertan: maemo is outdated. none of my Debian setups are10:34
dottedmagthat's why Slind did not say anything about Debian, and IPlinux says "inspired", not "based on".10:35
dottedmagah, Slind said "Debian-influenced" :)10:35
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JaffaKhertan: I believe you can manage your own versions. However, I think `XSBC-Bugtracker:' should be valid. The "specification" says URL; it doesn't specify it has to be HTTP ;-)10:52
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X-FadeYes, any url should be valid.10:53
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X-FadeAlthough it defeats the purpose a bit.10:53
qwerty12_N810XSBC-Bugtracker: www.goatse.cz10:53
JaffaX-Fade: Well, the purpose wasn't fully defined ever; and the fieldname itself is inconsistent with the other Maemo-specific fields. It should be XB-Maemo-Bugtracker (probably; not sure we need it in S & C)10:56
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: That's a hostname, not a URL ;-p10:56
X-FadeJaffa: The idea was to be able to use it in Debian and Ubuntu too.10:57
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X-FadeJaffa: Lead by example :)10:57
JaffaX-Fade: Having a bug tracker as a MUST requirement for Extrras doesn't make sense for everything IMHO. Especially since the *really* trivial things can have comments left against a specific version & build on the packages UI10:57
JaffaX-Fade: Was it discussed with Debian & Ubuntu? ;-)10:58
X-FadeJaffa: Discuss the bugtracker requirement on the list?10:58
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JaffaX-Fade: I've put it on the Talk: wiki page for it. We seem to be spreading out the topics even more with the mailing lists, brainstorm, talk and wiki pages.11:00
X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, wiki page is fine.11:00
petureek.. it looks like vdv100 has his gmail account hacked :/11:00
Jaffapetur: Yeah, I was seeing if he was here to poke VDVsx11:01
X-FadeJaffa: Quim just created a first draft, now is the time to discuss.11:01
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JaffaX-Fade: I'm not actually seeing any discussion, though. Bit of a black hole (perhaps I should push harder or I'm just too busy elsewhere to notice)11:02
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X-FadeJaffa: That is where you can help ;)11:03
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jeremiahI think debian already has a Bug tracker URL in control, but it is optional11:04
X-Fadejeremiah: couldn't find anything before I suggested the current one.11:04
jeremiahWell, there are URLs for 'upstream' and 'VCS'11:05
jeremiahBut perhaps not specifically bugs now that I think about it.11:05
X-Fadejeremiah: Yeah, the VCS ones are something we should also support in the future.11:06
X-FadeThat would be a nice thing to have.11:06
* fatal^ could probably spread some light on how the debian bts works if you really want to know..... not sure exactly which detail you're discussing though.11:06
JaffaX-Fade: Writing -developers email11:06
jeremiahAlthough often this field Homepage:
jeremiahleads to a bug tracker11:06
X-Fadejeremiah: Homepage is supported already.11:06
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jeremiahI didn't know that, maybe that should be a minimae check11:07
jeremiahOr do you check for it?11:07
X-FadeJaffa: I fixed the issue which caused the Vim icon not to show btw.11:08
X-Fadejeremiah: It is not required.11:08
jeremiahah, okay11:09
KhertanX-Fade: i see that the py2deb and homeip icon is show too in package testing queue list11:09
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X-FadeKhertan: Yeah, all icons should work now.11:09
X-FadeEven the external ones ;)
KhertanX-Fade: i think this is because my icon wasn't in png but in jpg ... yes i know but image application in n900 doesn't allow to save image in png as it does in Maemo411:10
X-FadeKhertan: jpgs should also work.11:11
ccookeMorning, all11:12
X-FadeKhertan: Although png is preferred.11:12
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KhertanX-Fade: it s works ... but yep it s lack of transparency11:12
Khertan(due to jpg)11:12
X-FadeYep, that is why you should use png if you want to do anything fancy ;)11:13
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JaffaX-Fade: cool.11:19
Jaffa(on the vim icon)11:19
Jaffavim only has 5 thumbs up: :-/11:19
X-FadeJaffa: Everybody else is Emacs fan? :)11:20
Corsaccan I thumb up without having the stuff? :)11:21
JaffaCorsac: No, you should thumb up after testing the application11:22
hrwJaffa: it is 7.2 or 7.2 with all update patches?11:23
CorsacJaffa: ok, count me in when/if I have one ;p11:24
Corsacan advance on thumb :/11:25
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Jaffahrw: It's 7.2 from the upstream tarball11:28
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wazdVDVsx - old dirty spammer :)11:28
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hrwJaffa: so it is old. thumb down11:32
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Jaffahrw: Old has nothing to do with the QA checklist. Upgrade is a feature request.11:32
* qwerty12_N810 gets the popcorn ready for the smackdown11:32
hrwqwerty12_N810: ;D11:32
Jaffahrw: Feel free to email the maintainers with which updates you want (I assume from
Jaffahrw: I suppose it would be trivial to dump all those patches into mud-builder/packages/vim.pkg/patches/11:35
hrwJaffa: probably. will wait anyway until n900 in hands11:35
hrwfor n810 I do not use anything other then mediaplayer11:36
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Corsacbrr, the "dubious content" is a bit scary11:47
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anidelgood morning12:29
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xnt14[sleep]have to go to school, g2g12:58
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lardmanlcuk: pvrtune might be what you're after for the PowerVR re top13:08
lardman quite interesting13:09
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kulve"                                     his13:12
kulveutility is only available under NDA.13:12
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lardmandoes the fact that dragging a desktop shortcut enables the edit mode drive other people mad?13:21
lardmanI can never seem to start the phone app when I'm walking along, instead it thinks I want to move icons.13:21
X-Fadelardman: Enable turning detection?13:23
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anidelor press power-button -> phone13:25
qwerty12_N810lardman: Don't use the phone functionality?13:25
anideldidn't know that dragging an icon would enable edit! never happened to me13:25
anidelqwerty then it'd be a very expensive tablet13:26
X-Fadeanidel: It doesn't, but clicking on  the desktop does.13:26
anidelah on an empty space.. that is it13:26
X-FadeSo if you click next to the icon, you get this.13:26
X-FadeFat finger syndrom ;)13:26
anidelqwerty but using the N900 with a data only SIM card + a normal phone.. would be an ideal solution :)13:27
qwerty12_N810lardman; it all fits...13:27
qwerty12_N810anidel: Hehe :)13:27
ccookeI actually *like* the n900 as a phone13:29
ccookeit seems to have been designed to streamline the things I do most often13:29
ccookethere are things I'd want to improve on, but...13:29
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anidelqwerty actually is not a bad idea.. I always liked the idea of a Internet Tablet that is not a phone13:33
qwerty12_N810I would've once agreed with that but now, I can't help but feel that having the phone functionality is very useful13:34
zerojaysame here.13:36
SpeedEvilqwerty is a horrible idea. I wonder what a keyboard optimised for error recovery would look like.13:36
anidelqwerty: I don't.. it's cramped in features and slowish. When I get a call with a keyboard open I tend to close the keyboard, this makes Phone app to rotate.. in the meanwhile I can't answer.13:36
anidelI should answer first then close and speak13:37
SpeedEvilOr more sanely, it would make the phone app answer13:37
anideland the way I use it.. always... the battery doesn't last long :) so..13:37
anidelhaving a small phone for actuall GSM calls would be nice .. to me at least13:38
X-Fadeanidel: bt headset.13:38
SpeedEvilI have a nk3330, that you can buy for only 49.99!13:38
anidelx-fade so to kill the battery even more ? :)13:38
X-Fadeanidel: No need to even touch your phone in that case.13:38
anidelI should use the provided headsets.. but I don't really use them that much..13:38
qwerty12_N810anidel: Grr, I still remember the horrible phone you had when we met, so I can't take your opinion seriously, sorry :p13:39
anidelqwerty: sold out :)13:39
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anidelqwerty: in this case I wouldn't use that phone.. but a regular phone just for calls and few things more :) not a 'smartphone'13:39
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anidelanwyay.. I'm just thinking out loud here :)13:39
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anidelbut I'm liking this idea.. only issue,  I have a contract already with vodafone :) can't remove the internet from there and have a mobile broadband contract13:40
SpeedEvilanidel: you're in the UK?13:40
SpeedEvilI forgot.13:40
hendrywhat's the most uptodate kernel build availible for diablo? i need newer features than 2.6.2113:40
anidelspeedevil: yep I am13:40
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SpeedEvilanidel: Well - there is the option of a free contract - with cashback13:41
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SpeedEvilanidel: these offer cashback deals that pay the rental on your phone, if you complete the forms right. They are intentionally easy to get wrong.13:42
anidellet me see what is that13:42
SpeedEvilBut it means that you can have a 35 quid/month contract free, if you complete the steps as stipulated.13:43
anidelbut I already pay for my Internet :) well it's only 5 £ a month13:43
anidelbut still13:43
anidelwe'll have a look though13:44
SpeedEvilselect how I use my phone, enter minutes and stuff. then click update my results, select something like a nokia 120813:44
anidelbut it says: There are no more deals to display.13:44
anidelah ok13:44
SpeedEvilThe web and walk internet option is 1G/mo13:45
anidelhow these work?13:46
anidelwhere do they get their money from?13:46
SpeedEvilThe network pays a considerable fe to vendors to get new subs.13:46
SpeedEvilIn the hope that the subs will continue on the network13:46
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SpeedEvilThat, and the fact that it's made intentionally difficult to claim in some of them - you have to send multiple things by post by deadline dates.13:47
SpeedEvilSo many people forget13:47
anideland pay13:47
SpeedEvilAnd of course, you'll need to PAC out at the end of the term if you want to keep the number13:48
SpeedEvil(and not pay the ongoing fee)13:48
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SpeedEvilIt's a hastle. But it's also the thick end of 300 quid.13:50
Suurorcatalk about nice and simple...13:50
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wazd <- ok, now THAT is oldschool :D14:15
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Flyser_Which bootloader will the N900 use?14:20
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Stskeepsprobably nokias own14:20
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hrwnolo again?14:24
hrwI hope that this time I will get good bootloader not the buggy one which was in n81014:25
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wazdSuddenly I've received a strange mental wave from the Universe and now I can make DHTML markups on the fly :)14:26
wazdCan hez Qt wave plz? :)14:26
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KhertanNo space left on device ...14:30
Khertangurk ....14:30
Khertanapt-get install pyside-gui14:30
X-FadeKhertan: not optified.14:30
* Khertan still think that doing a so small / partition is a bad idea14:30
KhertanX-Fade: there so few things which is optified14:31
X-FadeKhertan: root is fast storage. Big storage is a bit slower.14:31
KhertanX-Fade: yes ... but what is power/fast when you can't use it14:31
pablo_hi guys, i created a .deb using Qt4-x11 but doesnt work.....appears this error .. Segmentation fault (core dumped) ...any Idea?14:32
X-FadeIt just means that the frequently used system libs shoud be there. Not everything but the kitchen sink.14:32
RST38hmoo wazd, Khertan, X-Fade14:33
KhertanX-Fade: at least ... qt isn't small ...14:33
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Khertanbut frequenlty used libs14:33
Flandryi wonder if corrupted packages is the reason for my sdk env dying over and over14:34
* RST38h hits wazd with a large green QObject14:34
X-FadeKhertan: Yes, but pyside itself isn't.14:34
FlandryFailed to fetch  Error reading from server. Remote end closed connection [IP: 80]14:34
FlandryE: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?14:34
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X-FadeFlandry: Intermittend problem?14:35
infobotX-Fade meant: Flantry: Intermittend problem?14:36
X-FadeHmm infobot doesn't like to replace only one char ;)14:36
wazdRST38h: no, nothing changed, hit again :)14:36
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X-FadeFlandry: Anyway, what I wanted to ask is if this is happening every time?14:37
garbeamhow can I get a kernel stack trace in diablo, my kernel crashes for some reason14:37
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Flandryit happened yesterday during my third install14:38
Flandryi didn't watch as closely before that14:38
Flandryso i gave the same apt-get install command again and it seemed to complete14:38
Flandrybut i don't know how well it recovers14:38
X-FadeFlandry: Looks like a temporary server issue in one of the massive number of caching servers.14:38
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Flandrywell 3/3 times i've been watching (binaries,apps last time and binaries so far for today) it has  occurred once during each install14:41
garbeamis it just me or is broken?14:41
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garbeamI cannot access
garbeamthis sucks14:41
Flandryand the sdk has died three times, so i'd really like to figure out what's wrong so every time people don't tell me i'm doing something wrong14:42
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lcukFlandry, does your hard drive have corruptions14:44
lcukor are you trying to do odd things with it14:44
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Flandrythe second time it died there was a cycle in the /scratchbox tree14:46
Flandryso i used a different partition14:46
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Flandrydo you ask because that's a known outcome, or just a likely cause?14:47
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Flandryfsck didn't find errors, but i can't get rid of the cyclic directories14:48
lcukthe only time my scratchbox died was in a vm and it got corrupted14:48
ali1234having a cycle in /scratchbox is normal14:48
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Flandryhow do you get rid of it if scratchbox doesn't when it dies?14:49
suihkulokki/etc/init.d/scratchbox stop14:49
suihkulokkiwhich is effectively /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl stop14:49
Flandryi did that14:50
Flandryi followed the uninstall directions and it apparently had screwed itself up too much to even die gracefully14:50
suihkulokkiperhaps you had processess left running inside14:51
Flandryanyway, is apt likely to fix the broken download if i restart it or should i cut my loses and revert back to my backed up VM image now14:51
Flandryi'd really like to avoid installing 2GB of crap a fifth time :P14:51
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Flandrygarbeam: was out for a second but working now14:55
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hrwbeagleboard maemo5 someone?14:58
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Stskeepsworking on it15:00
Stskeepswe are at a state sgx initializes and xorg and everything runs15:01
Stskeepsbut nothing shows on screen15:01
wazddamn, SDK is refusing to install packages again :(15:01
X-Fadewazd: which ones?15:02
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wazdX-Fade: any from app manager15:02
Flandryoh yeah15:02
hrwStskeeps: can I get kernel+rootfs?15:02
Flandrytwo of my three SDK installs have been that way15:02
qwerty12_N810wazd: Red Pill mode & Set assume internet connection to true. Also, install fakeroot-net using apt-get15:03
X-Fadewazd: And make sure dns resolution works.15:03
wazdqwerty12_N810: should I do it everytime I launch it?)15:04
qwerty12_N810Once should be enough :)15:04
FlandryIs it normal that nokia-apps wants to remove maemo-sdk-sounds?15:05
X-Fadelardman: python in build-depends ;)15:05
qwerty12_N810Flandry: Yep, it is. On the upside, you get a much better set of sounds...15:05
Flandryah ok thanks15:05
wazdqwerty12_N810: I already did that "assume connection" but looks like it switched back15:05
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Flandryfor me, it would let me long-click on the apps to get info, but tapping them wouldn't do anything15:06
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wazdwell, at least I can drool at the stuff in SDK :D15:07
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Flandryhappened for nokia-apps, too15:09
FlandryError reading from server. Remote end closed connection [IP: 80]15:09
FlandryFailed to fetch  Error reading from server. Remote end closed connection [IP: 80]15:09
FlandryE: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?15:09
Flandryso that's 4/4 apt-get installs for nokia that have died15:09
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Flandrywould it help if i got out and pushed?15:10
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RST38hPOP3 Troubles Continue:
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wazdwith all that screaming bout n900 that does multitasking and iPhone that does not - iPhone can be operated while insalling apps :)15:16
RST38hMost people who claim iPhone can't do multitasking do not know what multitasking is15:16
Stskeepswazd, n900 can too15:16
wazdStskeeps: hmm, how?15:16
RST38hSts: Well it does get a bit slluggish when installing15:17
RST38hwazd: Does your Ubuntu desktop lock you app when installing a package?15:17
infobotRST38h meant: wazd: Does your Ubuntu desktop lock you out when installing a package?15:17
qwerty12_N810RST38h: gtk-update-icon-cache is faster, at least...15:17
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Stskeepswazd, task switcher is active15:18
RST38hqwert: There are some problems with the MIME database, looks like the parser does not understand some common fields15:18
wazdRST38h: well, I don't really care what my Ubuntu des, I care bout what n900 does :)15:18
RST38hqwerty: And yes there is a bug for this :)15:18
wazdRST38h: it's like that annoying M4 "bluetooth ending" bug15:18
wazdRST38h: when you can't do anything until you receive the whole file over bt15:18
qwerty12_N810RST38h: I've seen them; but they don't really cause slowness IMHO15:19
wazdRST38h: It can be disabled, but for casual user it doesn't make any sense :)15:19
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RST38hqwerty: No, just annoyance15:22
RST38hwazd: N900 is not like that =)15:22
RST38hwazd:Has got plenty of other annyances but not this one15:22
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Stskeepshrw: sorry, sec15:26
Stskeepshrw: first steps15:26
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wazddamn, can't locate that n900-fmrx-enabler package15:33
RST38hextras-testing or extras-devel15:33
X-Fadeand -testing15:34
wazdStskeeps: extras-devel, extras-testing, nothing15:34
X-Fadewazd: red pill15:34
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: ping?15:35
Flandrywazd: same thing this sdk iteration: clicking on the apps does nothing15:35
X-Fadewazd: or just install fmradio15:35
X-FadeFlandry: That is not the case. the fmrx-enabler package is not a user package, so it isn't listed.15:36
Flandryfakeroot-net installed, red pill mode/assume net connection aren't related i think. I seems more like a UI issue15:36
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, pong?15:36
Flandrysorry i was talking about his earlier report of app manager not installing apps15:36
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Are you still able to add products to b.m.o?15:36
GeneralAntillesAh, crap, yeah.15:36
GeneralAntillesI got your email, haven't gotten around to it yet.15:36
GeneralAntillesWill do now.15:36
wazdX-Fade: already in red pill15:37
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: No worries, just making sure the process was still the same15:37
wazdX-Fade: can't install fm radio cause I don't have that package15:37
wazdfiferboy: heya15:37
hrwStskeeps: tx15:37
fiferboyHi wazd.  Keeping busy?15:37
Flandryhaven't seen any solutions to this problem wazd, i just lucked out one of the times i installed sdk. I've been using apt-get15:37
X-Fadewazd: that is because in red pill mode it doesn't do dependency installs?15:37
garbeamFlandry: thx15:38
wazdX-Fade: ok, I'll try in blue15:38
garbeamso nobody knows how to get a kernel trace on maemo when a kernel panic happens?15:38
wazdfiferboy: well, not really :)15:38
wazdnope, app packages missing15:39
fiferboywazd: Then I haven't been asking for enough help lately!15:39
wazdfiferboy: quick tip for your photo frame widget15:39
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wazdfiferboy: remove arrows, switch pictures by pressing on the sides of the picture15:39
X-Fadewazd: installs just fine for me.15:40
fiferboywazd: Do you think it will be obvious enough to users?  I can make the arrows really, really faint...15:40
RST38hfiferboy, wazd: can I suggest something?15:40
RST38hreally simple?15:40
fiferboyRST38h: Go ahead.15:40
X-Fadefiferboy: look at 'Photos' app.15:41
RST38hfiferboy: Step away from having the image as a little widget at the desktop15:41
fiferboyX-Fade: For how you switch photos?15:41
RST38hfiferboy: Replace the whole background of the desktop where you show the image with your image and provide two semitransparent buttons on top, at the corners of the desktop15:41
X-Fadefiferboy: horizontal swipe ;)15:41
fiferboyX-Fade: That doesn't work on desktop widgets :(15:42
X-Fadefiferboy: hmm indeed15:42
wazdX-Fade: horizonal swipe swipes desktops15:42
wazdX-Fade: vertical is blocked15:42
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qwerty12_N810RST38h: +115:42
FlandryThis is the error i get when i click apps in app manager: hildon-desktop[1940]: GLIB WARNING ** default - mb_wm_client_window_sync_properties: X error 315:42
wazdX-Fade: that's the modern way to "lock" widgets I guess :D15:42
fiferboyRST38h: Neat idea.  I plan on having size options, so a 'full screen' would do what you want15:42
JaffaRST38h: Most people who claim the iPhone can't do multitasking are referring to the user experience, which prevents two third-party applications from Apple - in an unjailbroken iPhone - from running at the same time. Anybody who claims that this is equivalent to "not knowing what multitasking is" is just a pedantic pedant with no grip on real world usage ;-p15:42
RST38hfiferboy: Would make it default really: most people want the photo as large as possible anyway  :)15:43
RST38hJaffa: Well as long as they handle state saving/loading properly that should not be much of a problem15:43
fiferboyRST38h: The problem would be (if it is still a desktop widget) users could put widgets over top, and then bring the photo widget to the top and hide all their other widgets15:44
RST38hfiferboy: stick the image to the bottom of the widget stack15:44
fiferboyIt would be hard to get them back without removing everything from that desstop and adding them all in the right order15:44
fiferboyRST38h: Do you know if there is a way to control stacking besides user interaction?15:44
JaffaRST38h: Except for the things which have state which can't be persisted (e.g. network connections) or are required to do work in the background. And now *you*'re the one changing the meaning of 'multitasking'15:44
RST38hfiferboy: Well if it is an XWindow, you can set the hint15:45
RST38hfiferboy: that says "stay at the bottom"15:45
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fiferboyHmm, that might work.  I wonder it the user can override in desktop edit mode, though15:45
RST38hfiferboy: this is how Xroach creepies hide under your XWindows ;)15:45
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RST38hfiferboy: I am not sure what will happen in the edit mode, you will have to test15:45
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RST38hJaffa: Yea, these will be problematic15:46
fiferboyRST38h: I will look into it15:46
Stskeepshrw: do you have a beagle with LCD on the lcd header?15:47
fiferboyRST38h: The other problem with 'full screen' mode is what to do about the area at the top where widgets are not allowed, and what to do with portrait oriented photos15:47
hrwStskeeps: no, I use hdmi15:47
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orangeyhello all!15:48
RST38hfiferboy: I would guess both problems can be addressed with "nothing"15:48
orangeyhas anyone tried out wave?15:48
fiferboyRST38h: Probably true15:48
RST38hfiferboy: I.e. do not touch the status area and display portrait photos sideways15:48
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, done. Complementary bug filled for each.15:49
hrwStskeeps: time to try to create maemo rootfs without use of sbox15:49
* GeneralAntilles waits patiently for a tip.15:49
RST38hit is way easier for the user to rotate the device15:49
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Thanks for getting the ball rolling!15:49
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Your two enhancements will be implemented today15:49
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, feel free to revise the description formula more to your liking.15:50
GeneralAntillesI just hate short descriptions which mostly just say the package name. :P15:50
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Tip - Never pet a burning dog15:50
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: I do too (in other people's packages)15:50
* GeneralAntilles lights Flandry on fire.15:51
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: Tip: Don't open new products for fiferboy's stuff15:51
fiferboyYeah, now qwerty is going to file some bug about Canadian maintainership...15:52
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* Flandry sets fire to another SDK install15:52
FlandryNow look what ya dun15:52
jeremiahBurn baby burn15:52
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FlandryIs it abnormal then that i can't install apps with app manager in SDK. I can use apt but if it's supposed to be working it would be good to know. It's a UI issue that only sends an error if i tap on the app (i can long-tap to get info, but not install).15:54
GeneralAntillesNo, last I heard it wasn't working right.15:54
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hrwStskeeps: sources.list on that page points to maemo5.0alpha repositories which do not exists15:57
hrwor moment.. maybe its my fault15:58
Stskeepsyeah :P15:58
wazdoh, my bad15:59
wazdn900 can be operated while installing15:59
wazdpoor me15:59
hrwStskeeps: anyway s/maemo5.0alpha/freemantle/ works too15:59
anidelwazd: it can, but it's better not to.. it can be quite slow15:59
GeneralAntillesWoo, rootfs full again.15:59
GeneralAntilleshrw, "freemantle" isn't a thing.16:00
Stskeepshrw, please do notice:16:00
Stskeeps# download sources.list , packages (not Packages.gz) files from
Stskeeps# to this directory16:00
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Ceron^any news on N900 release dagte16:02
w00tnone that i've heard16:03
KMFDMmid november16:03
* GeneralAntilles sighs.16:03
anidelDuring November :)16:03
Stskeepshrw: just posted to maemo-developers16:03
anidelbut I'm sure the whole world will know about it16:03
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GeneralAntillesHow is it that Modest manages to mess up quoting so thoroughly?16:04
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I'm wondering, \r and \n differences perhaps?16:05
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: You have received my highest honour: a thanks in the debian/changelog!16:05
GeneralAntillesAh, crap, now my name is associated with it! :(16:05
RST38hAh don't worry, wazd actually got mentioned as a maintainer16:06
fiferboyYes, you are now fully responsible for any damage the new description does to peoples N900s16:06
RST38hSo, people with AlmostTI bug reports are now going to bug him =)16:06
anidelno they are AlmostTO bug him16:06
wazdRST38h: maintainer of what?16:07
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GeneralAntillesUgh, boost needs optifying16:09
w00tStskeeps: damn you! I was just about to link that :P16:11
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RST38hwazd: AlmostTI16:12
wazdRST38h: oh, cool :)16:12
wazdRST38h: not everyone is so generous :D16:12
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, too bad governance wasn't addressed.16:16
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GeneralAntillesThe argument I always hear whenever I bring up fragmentation is, "Well, Android is shipping on how many devices now."16:17
RST38hThe device was described as a larger iPhone, "small enough to carry in a handbag but too big to fit in a pocket."16:17
GeneralAntillesWhich device?16:17
RST38hwazd: Hey, not everyone takes care of all the artwork for somebody else's project =)16:17
RST38hGeneral: iTablet apparently16:18
RST38hUnless the whole rumor about Apple talking to media outlets about content for it is false16:18
GiantTalkingCowDepending on the cost, it'll either be a hit or the Apple TV 2.0.16:18
RST38hWill be a hit no matter what the cost is16:18
RST38hAs someone put it, Apple produces "cultware" =)16:18
GeneralAntillesIt's going to suck if it's iPhone OS.16:18
RST38hMost likely iPhone OS with more toolkits to handle tablet stuff16:19
glassnot many are hardcore cultists enough for apple tv though16:19
RST38hglass: Maybe they couldn't find how to use it in their orgies or something16:19
GiantTalkingCowRST38h: Nah, the cultists are only a small part of Apple customers. It's the UI and ease of use (for limited things) that hooks people.16:19
RST38hYea, but Mac users get seriously creepy16:20
RST38hEven by general geek standards16:20
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GiantTalkingCowNot really. Mac fanboys on the other hand....16:20
GeneralAntillesWhat's with people constantly claiming fanboyism on Talk?16:21
GeneralAntillesI've been to sites that have a fanboy problem.16:21
GeneralAntillesTalk is not one of them.16:21
GiantTalkingCowNo idea. Fanboys of any stripe are annoying.16:22
wazdGeneralAntilles: you're just a Talk fanboi, get lost :D16:22
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, Freenode just says /<project name>/<"inside" token>/<unique userid>16:27
GeneralAntillesand we have some options for project name formatting.16:27
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GeneralAntillesso the proposal should be fine.16:27
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Do you know of any docs on how to request and administer those?16:28
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, find a staffer.16:30
GeneralAntilles /stats p or poke #freenode16:30
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But do I then need to ask that for every person?16:30
GeneralAntillesYou'll have to give the staffer a list of the cloaks we want added.16:31
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GAN900Hrm, fun.
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qwerty12_N810GAN900: I had that (with another package) so I just deleted the file concerned and did an "apt-get -f install" and all was merry.16:35
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GiantTalkingCowI just ran across that article on Slashdot. Either way, I'd prefer an Android or Maemo based device to an Apple one, mostly because Apple seems to be run by a bunch of jackasses nowadays. (well, their mobile division certainly is)16:37
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LupuIt'll be interesting to sit back and watch that discussion.16:38
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LupuBut the blog does have valid points, which is good PR for Maemo16:38
GeneralAntillesTo Extras-testing testers: PLEASE don't heart packages which are not optified.16:39
LynoureGeneralAntilles: good reminder.16:40
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GeneralAntillesfiferboy, I'd be tempted to say you should default to using Photos.16:43
RST38hGeneral: My guess is that it was Eldar who first called everyone at tmo fanboys and we are now getting his readership16:43
RST38hGeneral: No need to optify small packages16:43
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, I'm not sure how apparent it will be to most users how to select their photos.16:43
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RST38hAs to larger ones, I have just optified ATI, fMSX, and Speccy, repository commit pending16:43
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fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Good idea.  I will set the defaults to slide show in the .images directory16:44
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anidelwith this: and Xournal you can make your own font from your own handwriting :)16:46
GeneralAntillesAnybody else find the file selector dialog totally obnoxious?16:46
GeneralAntillesI hate having to remember to tap the button at the top.16:47
anidelGA: I do.16:47
GeneralAntillesI usually cancel it 2 or 3 times before I manage to select what I want.16:47
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yeah, indeed. No stackable windows there.16:47
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Yes, there is no indication that tapping the directory you just selected a second time is how to close the dialog successfully16:48
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hrwlibvolume-id0 0.125-7+142.maemo0+0m5 - does it mean that Debian 0.125-7 was used as base, then maemohacked to udev 142 and then added some extra maemo patches?16:50
hrwbasically Lenny based16:50
* hrw -> out16:50
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suihkulokkiGeneralAntilles: yes the fileselector is a sore "hey I'm from 90's" thumb in the ui16:52
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suihkulokkifor example when choosing a avatar for a contact.. "lets not use this nice images application view of images, lets make the user navigate the filesystem with this ugly widget"16:54
Khertansuihkulokki: because it s better than scrolling around my list of 25 000 images16:55
lardmanhmm, :p to the people being rude about the size of my fingers16:55
* lardman reads the backlog16:55
X-Fadelardman: sorry ;)16:55
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X-Fadelardman: FFS is spreading ;)16:56
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lardmanI do find it annoying though, if I move my finger or hit it in the wrong place16:56
lardmanrather limits the usefulness of the device "on the go"16:56
X-Fadelardman: It annoys me more in the icon menu.16:56
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lardmanyeah, I get it there too, but oddly mainly with the phone desktop shortcut - because of the position & how I hold the phone16:56
suihkulokkiKhertan: stop keeping your porn collection on your phone!16:57
d-fens_hi, i know this might be a bit offtopic, but is there already a car navigation software available ?16:57
X-Faded-fens_: Basically, no.16:57
Flandry_no voice navigation16:57
d-fens_anything planned from some big players?16:57
d-fens_like tomtom or such16:57
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: photo frame now has better defaults16:58
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: I am implementing all your ideas today16:58
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X-Faded-fens_: You'd need to ask tomtom that ;)16:58
Khertansuihkulokki: ... :)16:58
d-fens_ok, so no rumors around16:58
X-Faded-fens_: But probably Ovi Maps will do it some day.16:58
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RST38hmoo anidel16:58
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fiferboyDoes anyone know if there is a library available for the tag cloud thing that the image viewer uses?16:59
SpeedEvilThere is stuff from openstreetmaps that sort-of-works - and can be easily ported - I'm not sure it's actually there yet.16:59
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, I'll have to think up some more good ones. :P16:59
SpeedEvilThe data quality however is variable16:59
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: libcumulus but headers are not available. Go figure...17:00
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: caveat - they have to be implementable in 10 lines of code or less...17:00
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Thanks, I'll look into that17:00
RST38hOk, it appears to be confirmed now: If you sent your request for developer discount last week, resend it again17:00
d-fens_ok, but in theory everything running on a standard dabian should work (if the libs are available on maemo)17:01
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solarionfiferboy: I can make that program in 9 lines of code or less.17:02
fiferboysolarion: Which program?17:02
RST38hwhat is euro1 variant?17:02
solarion(hint: this is where you say "I can make that program in 8 lines of code or less" or else "Make that program!")17:02
fiferboysolarion: Ah, I see.  Can it be a c program all on one line?17:02
solarionIt can be in whatever key.17:03
RST38hGAN: DDP sent an email saying that all the devices are in euro1 variant17:03
RST38hGAN: Wondering what it means17:03
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Stskeepsif its finnish and insane cursor keys. .17:04
RST38hO hope not17:04
Stskeepsthey will have to rip my n900 out of my arms if its that :P17:04
X-FadeI think it is the same version as given out at the summit.17:05
anidelno it's the same keyboard as the one given at the summit17:05
anidelyeah :)17:05
RST38hThe email says they will send another email with ordering information once N900 becomes available17:06
d-fens_is there a skype version planned for the n900?17:08
SpeedEvilskype is integrated into the UI17:09
SpeedEvilhowever - this isn't quite the same as a standalone app - no video calls17:10
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JaffaSpeedEvil: I doubt there'd be video if it was a standalone app ;-)17:10
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d-fens_but if  adriver would be available, could the "desktop" version of skype be made running on the n900?17:11
KhertanRST38h: didn't got any news none answer too from my email17:11
X-Faded-fens_: No, of course not.17:11
d-fens_because of the differnet architetcure?17:11
RST38hKhertanL If you sent your email to DPP last week, resend again17:11
d-fens_damn my fingers17:11
X-Faded-fens_: There are tons of differences between a desktop and a N900.17:11
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KhertanRST38h: hum ... maybe i should wait17:12
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SpeedEvilJaffa: err - why not - I'm confused17:12
X-Faded-fens_: Skype needs to implement it for Maemo5 themselves, if they want.17:13
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d-fens_i see,but a given app could be compiled for used on the n90017:14
X-Faded-fens_: If things only were that simple ;)17:14
timeless_mbpX-Fade: implement what?17:14
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Skype video chat ;)17:14
* timeless_mbp isn't sure where video is stuck17:14
* timeless_mbp thinks someone on the nokia end needs to get general video call working first17:15
d-fens_but its more politics than technical barriers17:15
X-Faded-fens_: Anyway, skype is closed source. So we can't recompile.17:15
fureddoAnyone is familiar with maemo-optify script?17:15
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SpeedEvilJaffa: Why wouldn't a 'desktop' linux video skype app, neglecting compleltely the closed source issue - work?17:15
X-Faded-fens_: Hardware is technically capable.17:15
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timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: you mean an skype-intel build?17:16
timeless_mbpon an arm device?17:16
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ali1234SpeedEvil: the skype codecs are known for being extremely cpu hungry and not able to be hardware accelerated. ot at least thats what i heard17:16
Stskeepsqemu-x86? ;p17:16
SpeedEviltimeless: yes - neglecting that whole issue17:16
timeless_mbpi think you're neglecting too many issues17:16
_|Nix|_Hey! How come libnss3-dev is not available in extras-devel? I'm trying to build pidgin.17:16
suihkulokkiskype is power managment killer anyway17:17
timeless_mbp_|Nix|_: is it in the sdk?17:17
SpeedEvilI know - jaffa seemed to imply (to me) that there were other issues other than the architecture.17:17
timeless_mbpif so, just steal the files from the sdk and repush to extras-devel17:17
wjt_|Nix|_: it was removed recently :'(17:17
_|Nix|_No idea. I just know that it's open, so why isn't it there?17:17
_|Nix|_wjt: Why?17:17
timeless_mbpthat's what i did for gettext17:17
wjt_|Nix|_: i don't know. if you find out let me know :)17:17
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: well17:18
_|Nix|_*sigh* ... this blows. That means no msn in Fremantle. Brilliant ...17:18
suihkulokkiespecially if the skype network decices that your phone is the best candidate for being a supernode and starts routing peoples calls via your phone..17:18
timeless_mbpthere's the minor issue that the front facing camera isn't really enabled anywhere17:18
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timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: ever had that happen to you?17:18
ali1234_|Nix|_: funny, it works for me17:18
SpeedEviltimeless: oh - diddn't know that. I assumed it was smply two v4l2 devices17:18
timeless_mbpwell, i'm not precisely sure what its status is17:19
* RST38h chants "pidging pidgin pidgin" andwaves at Nix17:19
timeless_mbpbut in 41-10, which is what most of the people here have17:19
timeless_mbpthere aren't any apps using the front camera17:19
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ali1234_|Nix|_: both pidgin and telepathy-haze are in the repos already, so i have no need to build it myself17:19
timeless_mbpi'm not sure precisely why, but i believe people are working on changing htat17:19
d-fens_timeless_mbp:  but drivers are there?17:19
ali1234besides, pidgin on a tablet is almost as bad as empathy on a desktop machine17:19
* javispedro has slashdot mod points AND there's a maemo slashdot article. 17:19
timeless_mbpd-fens_: my understanding is that the kernel enablers are in the kernel sources17:19
javispedrothere's an app already using the camera. iirc it's name is "mirror"?17:20
timeless_mbpthat isn't necessarily the same as they're enabled in the build17:20
timeless_mbpjavispedro: really? interesting17:20
_|Nix|_ali1234: K, well, I've made a lot of adaptations for Fremantle, like Hildon 2.2 widgets, etc, and I can't upload it to extras-devel because of that.17:20
javispedrotimeless: yep. "Mirror is a simple utility that shows a real-time mirror image of the built-in user-facing camera."17:21
_|Nix|_Actually libnss3-dev is probably not in the repo because of the .pc file breakage.17:21
RST38hjavis: You have got slashdot mod points? I am horrified now17:21
* SpeedEvil too.17:21
javispedroRST38h: for first time in years. believe in god?17:21
suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: not using skype but heard complaints about that possibility17:21
d-fens_is there a kind of software map for the most common needed tools with a progress status anywhere?17:21
timeless_mbppc file breakfage?17:21
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: technically it can happen, yes17:21
RST38hjavis: You know What I bealieve in =)17:21
X-Fade_|Nix|_: It was removed from the latest SDK.17:21
* Stskeeps is getting tired of web closing.17:22
RST38hCan always be added back, can't it?17:22
_|Nix|_timeless_mbp: It advertises header files wrong. I needed to put horrible hacks into to make it work.17:22
_|Nix|_timeless_mbp: The bug may have since been fixed.17:22
_|Nix|_X-Fade: I know. Why?17:22
X-Fade_|Nix|_: Hmm actually, no..
wjttimeless_mbp, _|Nix|_: I filed a bug about the pc file being broken a few months ago fwiw17:23
JaffaX-Fade: Is there a nice machine API for a user giving thumbs up/down & comments as themselves?17:23
X-FadeJaffa: no17:24
timeless_mbpX-Fade: yeah, it lists libnss3-dev is removed17:24
* Jaffa was thinking of a 'cheatsheet' mini-app for 9.08-11, and then realised it'd be pretty easy for it to list the apps which are installed from extras-testing as well17:24
JaffaX-Fade: Right, OK.17:24
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Yeah, from non-free17:24
JaffaScratch that idea then17:24
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: but added for free.17:24
timeless_mbpX-Fade: not -dev17:25
_|Nix|_X-Fade: I don't quite understand. If you search for "libnss3-dev" on that page, it says it was removed. It says so under the heading "Comparison of packages in Maemo 5.0beta2 and Maemo 5.0 non-free repositories".17:25
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X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Ah right!17:25
timeless_mbp_|Nix|_: my guess is this was an oversight17:25
_|Nix|_Why on God's green earth would the -dev package be held back?17:25
_|Nix|_*sigh* ...17:25
timeless_mbpnot held back, just not requested17:25
X-Fade_|Nix|_: my guess is that it moved from non-free to free and it got forgotten ;)17:26
_|Nix|_Fer cryin' out-loud. I'll check with Soumija ...17:26
timeless_mbp_|Nix|_: good choice17:26
Stskeepson vacation17:27
X-Fade_|Nix|_: ping marcell17:27
timeless_mbp_|Nix|_: i could probably send the files to extras-devel17:28
timeless_mbpi guess17:28
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: No17:28
timeless_mbpi can't17:28
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timeless_mbpbecause getting it into extras would require sources17:28
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: We block that17:28
timeless_mbpit'd end up in non-free17:28
timeless_mbpyou block what?17:28
X-Fadeuploading system libs to extras17:28
timeless_mbp-dev isn't a system lib ;-)17:29
X-Fadeyeah, but the source package contains it.17:29
timeless_mbpyeah, that'd be a problem17:29
AndrewFBlackanyone want to help me get gonvert UI hildonized?  I've done a litte work on getting it to fit bettr on small screen but need help with moving menu around17:29
X-FadeAnyway, this needs to be fixed in SDK.17:29
timeless_mbpthat won't help though17:30
timeless_mbpis the sdk part of autobuilders?17:30
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Why not?17:30
X-FadeYes, of course.17:30
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* timeless_mbp ponders17:30
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timeless_mbpso we have microb in the sdk ...17:31
timeless_mbpyeah, so it's just a botch17:31
X-FadeYeah, should just be there.17:31
timeless_mbpwhat about -dbg packages for microb?17:32
X-Fadelibnss3* should be in SDK, yes.17:33
timeless_mbpmicrob-eal-dbg, microb-engine-dbg, libnss3-dbg17:33
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Quick question. Is microb supposed to use the tap on the screen which wakes the device up? Shouldn't the first tap be discarded?17:34
timeless_mbpit happens to, we're aware it do17:35
timeless_mbpi'm not sure if we intentionally do it, or if it's just how things are17:35
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timeless_mbplemme ask the guy who maintains the ui17:35
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: It made me curse a few times yeah ;)17:35
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: As that tap is always on a link of course ;)17:36
X-FadeGreat when browing ebay and randomly click on 'Buy now'17:36
timeless_mbpit's a bug in system software17:38
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timeless_mbpif you have an app that runs in non-composite mode17:38
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timeless_mbp--- that's the explanation i was given anyway17:39
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Ah, yeah that explains why it doesn't happen in the 'regular' apps ;)17:39
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timeless_mbpno harm in filing a bug, although if you could create a test app which triggers it based on my "explanation" and use that to file the bug straight to system software17:39
timeless_mbpthat'd be vaguely appreciated from my personal perspective :)17:39
timeless_mbp(from an end user perspective, ideally there'd be two bugs, one against browser, and the one i just described which blocks it)17:40
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: I can file it against browser in b.m.o?17:40
timeless_mbpbut someone should file the bug against system software in bugs.m.o17:41
timeless_mbpmoving the bug out of browser would result in people filing it in browser again17:41
timeless_mbpwhich doesn't help anyone17:41
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: But we don't know that, we only know that the browser bugs ;)17:41
timeless_mbpand i don't want to be the one trying to write the testcase ;)17:41
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timeless_mbpwell, you could write such an app and verify it for yourself17:42
timeless_mbpyou=you, not you=user17:42
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stevem_Hey, does anyone know of anyone doing the N900 on contract in the UK?17:43
timeless_mbpsomeone said that the n900 would be 0GBP on contract17:43
stevem_I know about and signed up already - but their only voda and t-mobile, was after O217:43
stevem_timeless_mbp, yeah mine is17:43
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stevem_Anyone other than doing N900 on contract?17:45
lcuktimeless, the browser appears to be doing the following (which is different to the gtk apps)17:45
lcukOn mousemove events of any type it is responding to those events17:45
lcuki think the initial mousedown is eaten17:45
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lcukbut the rest of the stroke goes through17:45
lcukwhich is why browser appears to notice it17:45
lcukand gtk doesnt17:46
timeless_mbplcuk: anyway, whichever way17:46
timeless_mbpit's a bug in the system software17:46
timeless_mbpthe screen saver should consume the whole event17:46
timeless_mbpnot just 1/3 of it17:46
* lcuk nods17:47
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* lcuk ponders how to cure it17:47
lcukin liqbase i have a "drawing" flag which is set when i get the pressed event and unset when i get released17:47
lcukand i only respond to motion when this is set17:48
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* timeless_mbp nods17:48
AndrewFBlackyerga, Ping17:48
timeless_mbpworking around buggy system software shouldn't really be our job...17:49
lcukyeah, but on a desktop OS with overlapping windows wouldnt this cause problems anyway?17:49
lcukresponding to mousemove events outside of a click on your surface because the pointer passed over it?17:50
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yergaAndrewFBlack, pong17:50
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AndrewFBlackyerga, was looking at a post about a guy who hildonized govert but he didn't upload file you replyed to him did you ever get a copy of it from him?17:55
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yergaAndrewFBlack, can you give me the link? I don't remember that right now17:56
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AndrewFBlackI got alot of work done redoing ui to look well on small tablet thn found that post17:57
AndrewFBlackI'm not sure how to really hildonized it with the menu and all though17:57
fiferboylcuk: Was your last comment referring to the problem of having the press and (partial) drag in your application, and the release outside of it?17:57
lcukno fiferboy17:58
fiferboylcuk: Ok.  I thought that is what you meant when talking about a multi-window environment17:59
lcukit was relating to how an app responds to mouse events after coming back from the screensaver17:59
lcukand whether the saver itself should eat the entire stroke17:59
lcukand how different apps may interpret this partial stroke which didnt have an initial click17:59
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fiferboylcuk: Ah.  Sorry, I had it backwards18:00
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fiferboyI had to solve the reverse problem - when the release happens outside of my widget18:00
lcuktis ok :) you make good widgets so we will let you off :P18:00
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fiferboypersonal-photo-frame now had three sizes to select from :)18:00
yergaAndrewFBlack, sorry I don't have it. I think I played with it, but I don't find any .deb here.18:00
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lcukfiferboy, :D18:00
yergaAndrewFBlack, if I find something, I'll talk to you18:01
SpeedEvil - anyone know if the sdxc standard addresses this? Explicit 'I don't want this block anymore' notification?18:01
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AndrewFBlackyerga, ok Ill keep working on mine, it works just not hildonized18:01
lcukfiferboy, updated?18:01
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AndrewFBlackMight make a post on tmo asking for help getting it hildonized18:02
fiferboylcuk: I am just building it to test on the N900, then I will put it in the repo18:02
lcuki just got the YUV overlay to RGB pixmap code put in18:02
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lcuki am currently testing it to see how speedy it can be18:02
fiferboyresizing desktop widgets requires a bit of a workaround, due to limitations in the "widgets should not resize" mentality18:03
lcukbut so far its about 0.6second per frame18:03
lcukyeah i know18:03
lcukdo they resize to content or from an option18:03
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fiferboyFrom an option18:03
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fiferboyBut if you start off big, and let the user size it smaller, the "X" and spanner icons no longer function in desktop edit mode...18:03
lcukreasonable enough18:03
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lcukdid you try dynamic resizing?18:04
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fiferboylcuk: countdown-home used to resize dynamically (until I read the HIG)18:04
lcukor at least having a bigger, but transparent icon with smaller pic within18:04
fiferboyThe problem is the desktop decides where to put the edit mode icons when the widget is first realized18:04
fiferboySo I have it realized at my minimum size so the icons always functions18:05
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fiferboyIt looks a bit funky in desktop edit mode with larger sizes, but at least it works in all cases18:05
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wazdcan anyone show me FM receiver app screenshot please?18:26
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Jaffawazd: I didn't think it had a GUI yet18:29
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wazdJaffa: Pycage's app has :)18:30
wazdJaffa: according to Talk18:31
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lcukwhy would this package not show which repository its in:
lcukqwerty12_N810, ^^18:43
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qwerty12_N810Maybe because it does not have a category beginning with user/. Dunno18:44
lcukok ill file a bug18:44
lcukcos its in repo18:44
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hardakerooohhh  slashdot post today comparing maemo and android.18:45
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SpeedEvilMy mod points expired as I went to mod it18:45
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hardakerYeah, I don't have any at the moment.18:45
hardakerI find I get a lot less reading via RSS feed.18:46
javispedroI was able to mod troll to anyone talking about Maemo being better >:)18:46
airstrikehardaker: link?18:46
airstrikethanks :)18:47
dirk2Stskeeps: ping18:47
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hardakerWow.  TFA sucks18:48
javispedrothe comments are not any better.18:48
hardakerwell, sucks is a bit harsh.  How about "hard to read".18:49
hardakerobviously blog and not professional journal18:49
Stskeepsdirk2: pong18:49
hardaker(as if "blogspot" in the URL wasn't enough to say that)18:49
javispedrodid you know you have to use eclipse to develop for maemo but not for android?18:49
JaffaHmm. Anyone ever got random "tapping up" emails from Google?18:49
JamieBennettsilly question but what directory do you have to put music in for the media player to see it with the n900?18:49
hardakerjavispedro: ???  was that in a comment???18:49
javispedrohardaker: yep. sometimes I have to remind myself wrong!=troll18:50
qwerty12_N810JamieBennett: /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds WFM18:50
JamieBennettjaffa: What do you mean by tapping up?18:50
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JaffaJamieBennett: Anywhere on the 32GB should work. .sounds on the VFAT (/home/user/MyDocs/.sounds when mounted)18:50
dirk2Stskeeps: Any Maemo5 on Beagle news from your side? I'm just scanning the mailing list ;)18:50
JaffaJamieBennett: As in, "do you think you might want to work here?"18:50
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JamieBennettJaffa: Had one at the beginning of the year but it was in Switzerland.18:51
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Stskeepsdirk2: posted kernel and status update18:51
JaffaJamieBennett: Person has a US phone number. How odd. No harm in asking :)18:51
JamieBennettJaffa: :)18:52
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hrw|gonebye for now18:52
* dirk2 reads Stskeeps mail :)18:52
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JamieBennettJust put an .mp3 in Music/Podcasts (after plugging in and choosing Mass Storage) and no joy :(18:54
fiferboyJamieBennett: Are you still plugged in?18:55
dirk2Stskeeps: Great! Sounds like we should go on and concentrate with your approach18:55
JamieBennettpenny drops18:55
fiferboyJamieBennett: You have to unplug to get it to show18:55
lbtJaffa: yes18:56
lbtit was legit too18:56
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lbtlooked highly dubious though18:56
lbtthey, er, Google you18:56
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Stskeepsdirk2, got a lcd connected to your lcd header by chance?18:59
fiferboyHmm, only two votes to go on Personal Dataplan Monitor...18:59
Jaffalbt: My main question (apart from 'what?' and 'how much?') is 'what was it that put me on your radar?'19:00
JaffaAnyway, hometime.19:00
infobotJaffa meant: Anyway, hoteltime.19:00
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dirk2Stskeeps: No, unfortunately only DVI19:00
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lbtJaffa: I think presence on mailing lists and the like19:07
lbtcatch you later19:07
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Anwarboy11i have a release date!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!19:07
Anwarboy11for uk !19:07
lcukyou in prison?19:08
Anwarboy11for the n90019:08
Anwarboy11read boys/girls19:08
Anwarboy11this is straight from the email i recieved from mpd19:08
Anwarboy11Delivery of Nokia N900 stock into our Nokia stores has unfortunately been delayed by two weeks to w/c 16th November. The delivery when it arrives will be the first N900 stock in the UK and orders will be dispatched on a first ordered, first serve, basis directly from our Nokia stores. For those of you that have already pre-ordered and are expecting dispatch on the 30th October as previously advertised, please accept our sincere apologies and be assured19:08
Anwarboy11.......speechless i suppose?19:09
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Mekand what makes you think that this date won't be missed?19:11
lcukmek, he has an email!19:11
qwerty12_N810Damn it, Mek, we were staying speechless19:11
FlyserMy shop still says December ...19:11
Mekoops, sorry :)19:11
lcukand ye of little faith mek, what makes you think they wont miss it!19:12
lcukwill ^19:12
lcukqwerty12_N810, i filed a bug about zenity btw19:13
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qwerty12_N810Nice :-)19:13
Anwarboy11its somthing to look forward to19:15
Anwarboy11at least we have some kind of date19:15
Anwarboy11better than "mid nov"19:15
* lcuk puts his hand up19:16
javispedrohow many bugs filled in a month? It feels like it was yesterday when I noticed bug 5000 was filled.19:16
fiferboyIsn't November 16th mid-November ;)19:16
lcukweek commencing 16th nov actually fiferboy19:16
lcukjavispedro, GOOD19:16
fiferboyAh, I thought w/c stood for Water Closet in the UK...19:16
fiferboylcuk ^19:16
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Anwarboy11i just been pestering mpd on release dates, they always seem to tell me =)19:17
javispedrowow, quite an story for a horror movie
javispedro"swap hell despite free ram" :S19:20
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toggles_1standard, my n810 does the same after about 4 hrs19:21
qwerty12_N810toggles_1: INVALID: Your N810 isn't an N900 :p19:21
toggles_1still, to be expected i think, hoping mer will fix it ;-)19:22
javispedroto be expected? O.o19:22
toggles_1it's probably maemo-launcher on the n900 too19:22
javispedroit seems like a kernel issue though.19:23
Anwarboy11do u think n900 can run oldd pc games19:24
Anwarboy11ones that require minimal spec?19:24
toggles_1it runs second reality, don't see why not19:24
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lcukyeah, someone ran a cool classic pc game on it19:24
Anwarboy11which one was that19:24
lcuki think it was called "windows 3.11" or something19:24
Anwarboy11yh i seen that19:24
Anwarboy11solitare he playd19:24
lcukdidnt have very high fps tho19:25
lcukwould get fragged often19:25
Anwarboy11im talking about somthing liek tomb raider 119:25
javispedrobah, so many things to do and so little time.19:25
* lcuk wishes he had that tech19:25
qwerty12_N810lcuk: And you can! For the low, low price of £9.99!19:26
javispedroor a time stopper gadget.19:26
lcukfiferboy, can you knock up a time stopping widget19:26
lcukyou will need to install the flux capacitor package (i think its in harmattan extras-devel atm19:27
fiferboylcuk: For stopping time relative to you, or stopping universal time once and for all?19:27
lcukrelative to self19:27
Anwarboy11anyone think they cud port psx emu to n90019:27
lcukand which doesnt involve me travelling away at light speed19:28
lcukAnwarboy11, sure, gimme 5 minutes19:28
javispedropupnik tried iirc, n8x0.19:28
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fiferboylcuk: There is a limitation in the current hildon-desktop (related to the swiping gesture) the prevents local time relativity changes...19:28
lcukahhh right19:29
lcukjust disable the extra desktops19:29
javispedrobecause damn time is non-free .19:29
lcukand then swiping is removed19:29
javispedrowe need OSS version ASAP.19:29
lcukand it can be included19:29
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Stop being Canadian, apt-get source hildon-home, and get to work!19:29
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: I am currently working on a citizenship-changing widget, but the only option so far is "Canadian" :P19:29
Anwarboy11im currently learning c++19:30
Anwarboy11very basic stuff19:30
Anwarboy11but ime really confused with this boolean stuf?19:30
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Would you just go out and buy a dataplan already?  And rate personal-gprs-mon?19:31
lcukwith boolean you either get it, or you don't.19:31
javispedrowell, boolean stuff is boolean.19:31
fiferboylcuk: That was terrible19:31
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Meh, even I get it...19:31
javispedrofiferboy: he was trying to outrun me in my stand up comedian career.19:31
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qwerty12_N810fiferboy: I'm tempted to thumb it down just for that comment19:32
lcukalmost as bad as "There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't"19:32
Anwarboy11very helpful19:32
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: :P19:32
lcukAnwarboy11, boolean logic is true/false you make comarisons and stuff19:32
fiferboylcuk: That one really only works in print.  I try telling orally and it always flops19:32
lcukits your basic building blocks of all computer software19:32
Anwarboy11the tuturial i was reading started adding number values19:32
Anwarboy11which i dont knw where they came from19:32
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TomaszDfiferboy, around?19:33
GeneralAntillesThese /. comments are depressing.19:33
lcukfiferboy, confuse them more by converting what you want to say to binary19:33
fiferboyTomaszD: Here19:33
Anwarboy11if anyone can link to a good tutorial that wud be helpful19:33
frals<lcuk> with boolean you either get it, or you don't. <- lol19:33
lcukone one zero zero one one one zero zero one one one!19:33
fiferboylcuk: Like the robot joke?  011010010110101... 219:33
Anwarboy110010000111001 =2 :}19:33
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GeneralAntillesHaha, it's me looking like a tired idiot:
* qwerty12_N810 gives GeneralAntilles a truck-load of Red Bull19:35
Anwarboy11............i still dont get boolean19:35
Anwarboy11i did only start learning yesterday tho ....19:35
lcukyou only started boolean, or programming yesterday?19:36
lcukfiferboy, i updated photo19:37
lcukbut it hasnt got new ui19:38
lcukdo i need to reboot19:38
fiferboylucWhat version?19:38
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lcukhow do i find out version19:38
Anwarboy11i only started yesterday.. before that i only knw gcse html19:38
* lcuk curses apps for not having compiled in version19:38
lcukAnwarboy11, boolean is True/False19:39
Anwarboy11yh i knw19:39
fiferboylcuk: apt-cache policy personal-photo-frame19:39
Anwarboy11buts its them && || ! that anny me19:39
lcukwhat if i just used configure make make install?19:39
lcukahhh operators19:39
lcuknot the actually boolean itself19:39
Anwarboy11that bit19:39
fiferboylcuk: You built it from source?19:39
lcukfiferboy, hypothetical case19:40
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Anwarboy11im not getting multiple sybols19:40
Anwarboy11or and if ....and so on19:40
fiferboyAh.  Usually the directory is named something like personal-photo-frame-0.219:40
lcukin c, and c++, you must remember operator precidence19:40
lcukand if you are unsure19:40
fiferboylcuk: But from source you can always look at the debian/changelog (for maemo packages)19:40
lcukwrap each piece of the equation in brackets19:40
* lardman dreams of strangling the person(s) who wrote the sw for the Tesco "self service" checkouts19:40
fiferboylardman: You might want to see someone about your dreams...19:41
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lcuklardman, its evil19:41
lardmanfiferboy: yes, the person who wrote the sw; my dreams will soon go away19:41
lcukfiferboy, i meant in a general sense19:41
lcuki come from windows where build version is embedded into the binary19:41
lardmanso which particular bit of the AWS do I need to look at for accessing product info?19:42
fiferboylardman: lol19:42
lcuki cant apt-get source on device19:42
qwerty12_N810lcuk: scratchbox19:43
lcukcurious, im missing sha256sum19:43
lcukqwerty12_N810, but ive used it before19:43
* timeless_mbp looks for someone w/ an n900 browser they're willing to crash19:43
qwerty12_N810use it again19:43
lcukwithout messing19:43
lcukme timeless19:43
fiferboylcuk: Do you have extras-devel on the N900?  If not, you don't have the updated UI version19:43
lcukwas still trying to do the other stuff, but since i cant19:43
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Easily done... What do you want doing?19:43
* airstrike looks for an n90019:43
lcukyes fifer i just refreshed and updated19:44
lcuki had an older one from -testing19:44
lcukand upgraded it19:44
fiferboylcuk: Even if you have extras-devel, I don't think the new one has imported yet19:44
fiferboyI just uploaded it less than an hour ago, and the product page is not showing it as imported into extras-devel19:44
Anwarboy11check my app idea out people ...
fiferboylcuk: You probably have my "new" version from last night...19:44
lcukAnwarboy11, theres a lot of hand waving going on in your post19:45
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* RST38h moos again19:45
lcukhi rst19:46
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Anwarboy11hand waving?19:46
* qwerty12_N810 gets the sudden urge to obtain milk19:46
qwerty12_N810Moo, RST38h19:46
javispedroremoo rst19:47
lcukyes Anwarboy11 its actually quite a difficult problem is image tiling and merging19:47
lcuktheres software available to do it19:47
RST38hHeya all, how are things?19:47
lcukbut its non trivial19:47
Anwarboy11u knw like on all decent camera phones at the moment19:47
lcukor should i say19:47
Anwarboy11there is panoramic option19:47
lcukits (!trivial)19:47
Anwarboy11just extend that feature , to 360 degrees19:47
Anwarboy11dusnt sound like a hard conecpt to me19:48
SpeedEvilI was wanting an option for that on my openstreetmaps thing I'm thinking of features for19:48
javispedroI wonder if there are OSS algorithms for that?19:48
SpeedEvilA nice way of quickly using video rate images, with a quick piviot to do a low-res pan19:48
lcuktimeless, did you crash your own browser before telling us?19:49
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Under Fremantle, do you have a choice of preferred colour widget?19:49
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: What do you mean?19:49
fiferboyThere are a bunch of predefined theme colours you can choose from...19:50
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Sorry, I failed to parse that one, too. I mean, do you prefer the Hildon colour selection widget (depreciated) or the GTK one under Fremantle?19:51
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Neither :|19:51
lardmanah, looks like the Product Advertising API is what I need....19:51
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: he_color_* are what I use (disclaimer: I wrote them)19:52
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qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Interesting... Mind if I steal?19:52
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Steal away.  Get the latest source for countdown-home19:52
qwerty12_N810Thanks :)19:53
dirk2Stskeeps: I asked beagle people regarding LCD issue. They said the lcd and dvi outputs are the same thing19:53
dirk2Stskeeps: Maybe you like to discuss this at #beagle?19:54
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javispedrofiferboy: wasn't he_* part of hildon-extras?19:55
fiferboyjavispedro: Sadly I have been very lax in actually putting it in the garage project19:56
fiferboyI have to do that soon, and then address a couple of issues (multiple labels, easy colour selector)19:56
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Flandry_does anyone export the SDK display to a remote computer19:57
wazdso, anyone to shot n900 FM receiver app for me please? :)19:57
Flandry_eg their host system19:58
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javispedroFlandry_: elaborate? you always have to export $DISPLAY before getting the SDK UI up.20:01
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Flandry_now i'm exporting to the host from the virtual machine20:01
lcukwazd, which app20:01
Flandry_i get the maemo desktop and UI, but all apps are blank20:02
wazdlcuk: PyCage's20:02
Flandry_figured i probably forgot something simple20:02
lcukwazd, ?20:02
javispedroI think you need XShm.20:02
javispedrobetween compositor and X11 server at least (AFAIK, never tried)20:03
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wazdlcuk: I guess20:04
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Flandry_i thought x client/server was the whole pizza20:04
Flandry_ok well not worth figuring out20:05
timeless_mbplcuk: yes20:05
timeless_mbpbut my browser was older than your browser20:05
timeless_mbpand i hadn't had time to read the code yet20:05
timeless_mbpi've now read it20:05
lcukahh, so is it still in need of breaking?20:05
timeless_mbpit's missing an entire section of code20:06
javispedroFlandry_: not only that, but also you are not getting accelerated GL.20:07
Flandry_it's a vm anyway20:07
javispedroI was experimenting with VMGL but all I got was X11 protocol weirdness. Hope I can find an afternoon worth of free time soon to waste it with a gdb session.20:08
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Flandry_it's definitely nice to have vbox minimized and a maemo and scratchbox shell open on host20:09
lcuko_O timeless20:09
lcukrelating to what?20:09
timeless_mbpproxying GLists20:09
timeless_mbpgimme a bit to file the bug20:09
javispedroFlandry_: an interesting alternative is to edit the VBox X11 server to be the Maemo one.20:10
javispedroI mean.20:10
javispedroedit the virtualized Ubuntu/Debian/whatever gdm so that it starts a 800x480 server and switch to it.20:11
javispedrothen you have a 800x480 vbox window.20:11
javispedroyou also gain accelerated GL (if vbox supports it, and I think it does)20:12
javispedronot-so-finished in oct 27th?20:13
Flandry_vbox ose guest additions don't work with my present kernel apparently20:13
Flandry_so i was just hoping to avoid the whole cursor lock thing20:13
javispedroah, well.20:14
Flandry_but it will do the job20:14
timeless_mbp5855 for people who are curious20:14
Flandry_i've spent enough time fighting with the sdk :/20:14
aSIMULAturi like how, in the wired video...he's talking about a pannable desktop but then he's showing hte browser's visual history20:14
Anwarboy11yh so dumb20:14
Flandry_same concept anyway guys20:15
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javispedroproves people can't tell the diference.20:15
Flandry_i find them bothe equally cool anywoy20:15
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* aSIMULAtur scratches her head20:15
* lcuk scratches aSIMULAtur's head20:16
Anwarboy11i wuite like that first pic of the nokia with the sun glare in the back20:16
* qwerty12_N810 watches as aSIMULAtur slaps lcuk20:16
aSIMULAturwhy would i slap for a nice head scratch? :)20:16
* Anwarboy11 slaps aSIMULAtur around a bit with a large trout20:16
qwerty12_N810aSIMULAtur: I just wanted him to be slapped :(20:16
* aSIMULAtur knees Anwarboy11 in the gut20:17
lcukAnwarboy11, it might help you to know aSIMULAtur likes MMA20:17
lcukand welcomes a chance to use her knowledge20:17
aSIMULAturi'm actually a muay thai fighter not an MMA practitioner20:17
aSIMULAturi just like watching MMA20:17
aSIMULAturanyone else like fighting?20:18
aSIMULAturor am i in the wrong channel :D20:18
timeless_mbpaSIMULAtor: his hair is strange20:18
aSIMULAturwho's hair?20:19
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Anwarboy11yh i love watching martial arts movie's20:19
Anwarboy11also im a red belt in soo bahk do20:19
aSIMULAturo hehe20:19
Anwarboy11anyone seen fearless here?20:19
aSIMULAturwe were laughing at the video earlier20:19
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aSIMULAturwhat's red belt in big fat ho20:19
Anwarboy11timeless put http before links so we can click on em20:19
timeless_mbpAnwarboy11: use your scrollback20:20
timeless_mbpit's your stupid link20:20
javispedronote. if you open a gaming console marketing link, you DON'T put paletted GIF screenshots of your games.20:20
javispedro(oDROID stuff)20:21
AndrewFBlackI'm working on hildonizing a program written in Python with a Glade UI I'm trying to follow a how to from but I can't figure out where to put my new hildonized menu20:23
qwerty12_N810AndrewFBlack: Read the PyMaemo tutorial; it has a nice step-by-step on how GPodder's menu was reparented, and that was using Glade20:24
timeless_mbpoh right20:25
* timeless_mbp goes to change "Reject" to "Busy"20:25
aSIMULAturdon't forget20:26
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aSIMULAturtake that out20:26
aSIMULAturthen i will be happy happy20:26
aSIMULAturand ever20:26
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Have you replaced "On Ho" yet? =)20:26
Anwarboy11n900 v htc hd2 ....... views ?20:26
aSIMULAturcan u make a lolspeak stringset timeless20:26
timeless_mbpaSIMULAtor: we could20:27
timeless_mbpstill need to decide if we want to do something lolyer speak20:27
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aSIMULAturifi used those strings i'd probably throw my device across the room due to frustration20:27
timeless_mbpit actually wouldn't cost much on the ui side...20:27
MyrttiAnwarboy11: have a cookie!20:27
aSIMULAturmaybe i should make a pink kitty theme just for kicks20:27
aSIMULAturand kitten icons20:28
timeless_mbpa bit more math here or there20:28
timeless_mbpfwiw, i saw someone w/ a decent theme + icon set20:28
timeless_mbpdid anyone package the startup movie yet?20:28
Anwarboy11can someone tell me about ovi maps.... i heard theyr really unreliable. any chance of google maps coming to n90020:29
timeless_mbpAnwarboy11: define coming?20:29
timeless_mbpyou can use google maps today20:29
qwerty12_N810Anwarboy11: Unreliable is an understatement...20:29
timeless_mbpin the browser20:29
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I would but it's pre-watershed20:29
Anwarboy11im talking an app20:30
Anwarboy11ive just had  an iphone20:30
timeless_mbpAnwarboy11: like maemo mapper?20:30
Anwarboy11although it was missing simple stuff it was a great device20:30
Anwarboy11i really likes the bbc iplayer on iphone20:31
Anwarboy11the quality was v good well better than the ones on n-series at the time20:31
Anwarboy11i hope they make an iplayer app for n90020:31
SpeedEvilget_iplayer :)20:31
timeless_mbpAnwarboy11: did you try an n8x0?20:31
SpeedEvilAnwarboy11: you really need an unlimited plan if you're going to be doing much iplayering20:32
Anwarboy11yh ive preoderd on tmobile with web n walk20:32
Anwarboy11anyway i use more wifi20:32
Anwarboy11and ive not tried an n81020:33
Myrttimy brain implodes in pain of this discussion20:33
Anwarboy11im just hoping the n900 is better than iphone20:33
SpeedEvilweb+walk is 1G normal per-month20:33
Anwarboy11i bought a samsung jet and returnd it the nxt day20:33
Anwarboy11was not a match20:33
Anwarboy11then bought n9720:34
Anwarboy11felt like throwing it in the fire20:34
Anwarboy11hope this n900 wont be like that20:34
SpeedEvilIn many ways the n900 is enormously superior to the iphone.20:34
SpeedEvilIn others, it's vastly inferior.20:34
SpeedEvilIf you - for example - want the huge app-store, that won't be there at launch20:34
timeless_mbpor this year ;-)20:34
Anwarboy11it just needs the community20:34
Anwarboy11and app store yh20:34
timeless_mbpwhat the heck is 'yh'?20:35
timeless_mbpand what's wrong with using real words?20:35
Anwarboy11even tho n900 can play stuff like youtube direct from page, it would be usefull if ther was a dedicated app.20:35
ShadowJKaren't there a ton of dedicated youtube apps...20:35
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, see this yet? ;)
Anwarboy11ok, i'll try and use better english20:36
lcukAnwarboy11, are you going to write it?  (boolean answer required)20:36
Myrtticomparing any phone to another manufactured by a different company is about as useful as comparing cats to dogs as predators.20:36
* lcuk waves @ Myrtti 20:36
Myrttiand there's a riddle for you20:36
* Myrtti waves at lcuk20:36
Anwarboy11laughing out loud (lol) i would love to write applications if i knew how20:36
airstrikelearn something new everyday :)20:36
timeless_mbpMyrtti: comparing two vendor's android phones from the same year is probably not that bad20:36
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timeless_mbpbut that's because they're almost a family20:37
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lardmanAnwarboy11: try Python20:37
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* airstrike <3s Python20:37
wiretappedrolling on the floor laughing20:37
Myrttitimeless_mbp: the exception that confirms the rule20:37
Anwarboy11ive been told to do c++ first so i'm working on that20:37
timeless_mbpMyrtti: agreed20:37
airstrikewhat? lies!20:37
airstrikeC++ is so messy20:37
* airstrike ducks20:37
lardman~lart people who write Amazon code C#and Java because that means no-one writes in C20:37
Myrttibash is pretty20:38
* infobot crushes people who write Amazon code C#and Java because that means no-one writes in C with a full height scsi disk20:38
timeless_mbpairstrike: just wait for Qt :)20:38
* timeless_mbp likes perl+zenity20:38
Anwarboy11c++ so i can use qt...whatever that is20:38
timeless_mbpAnwarboy11: you can use Qt from Python20:38
timeless_mbpor Perl20:38
* airstrike uses PyQt20:38
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timeless_mbpor most other languages20:38
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MyrttiAnwarboy11: good luck in your aspirations... you might need it20:38
Anwarboy11im confused now20:38
Anwarboy11all you guys tell me to learn different languages20:39
timeless_mbpi haven't20:39
Anwarboy11c, c++, python20:39
timeless_mbpi'm just saying you should figure out what you're trying to do first20:39
Anwarboy11no not you in particular20:39
AndrewFBlackqwerty12_N810, where is the Pymaemo tutorial ?20:39
timeless_mbpdo a bit of planning/research20:39
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airstrikedon't take my word for anything :P20:39
MyrttiAnwarboy11: I tell you to use lisp20:39
qwerty12_N810Anwarboy11: Google "ARM ASM"20:39
KhertanHi !20:39
Anwarboy11loooll nice kitten20:39
airstrikelisp was fun for a while20:39
Myrttilisp, or schema20:39
airstrikeyeah, dr. scheme20:39
qwerty12_N810Anwarboy11: ASM is the easiest language by far20:39
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airstrikethen it got really confusing and i dropped it :P20:39
Myrttior BBC Basic20:40
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, how come he didn't put AKA AndrewFBlack by my name20:40
airstrikeAnwarboy11: don't listen to them :P20:40
qwerty12_N810AndrewFBlack: , I guess20:40
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, lol.20:40
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, someone might not knowwho I am20:40
airstrikeAnwarboy11: just learn C++ or python.. or both! but if you start with C++ you'll be glad you learned python whereas if you go the other way around you'll be somewhat frustrated :P20:40
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, send him a message, then. :P20:40
Anwarboy11i just wan't to learn somthing that will let me code for my future n900!"!!!!!20:40
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AndrewFBlacklol I am wonder why he only put 1 photo up to took like 10020:41
lardmanqwerty12_N810: ARM ASM +120:41
Khertan_Hi !20:41
Khertan_again ...20:41
airstrikeC++ has a much steeper learning curve than python imho20:41
lardmanyeah, with Python you'll be up and running in 10min flat20:41
qwerty12_N810ARM ARM is 5 mins20:41
Anwarboy11i got to if funtions in c++ and im stuck20:41
timeless_mbpAnwarboy11: just about anything will let you do that20:41
AndrewFBlack2 hours left til I get my n90020:42
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Khertan_someone have a turn around ?20:42
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: With ARM ASM, can I run the same code on my desktop computer?20:42
RST38hFinally, FAA is considering prohibiting Li-based batteries on the planes20:42
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, eyes only for you. :P20:42
RST38hSay bye bye to that laptop =)20:43
Khertan_fiferboy of course ... if you use an arm :)20:43
GeneralAntillesRST38h, lol.20:43
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Only if you don't use the Canadian variant20:43
GeneralAntillesBusiness people will riot.20:43
Khertan_while trying to use git on my n900 i got this : fatal: git-push is not available for http/https repository when not compiled with USE_CURL_MULTI20:43
fiferboyI have arms!  I'm switching all my development RIGHT NOW!20:43
RST38hGeneral: National security is at stake, nobody gives a damn about business people any more20:43
Anwarboy11IM ONLY 15! i'm guessing all you guys are 30 year olds who have been coding since 520:44
timeless_mbp29 and 620:44
Khertan_lcuk ?20:44
RST38hYes we are all old farts20:44
Mouseygood, if you're only 15, you can still start now and say "i started when i was 15" and people will be all, woooow20:44
* hardaker wishes he was still 3020:44
RST38hHalf of us are pedophiles, another half is underground FBI agents20:44
RST38hThe usual Internet stuff, you know20:44
fiferboyWhich half is qwerty12?20:45
Khertan_ do not forgot the chineese fbi guy20:45
RST38hboth, he is a double agent20:45
Anwarboy11i guess half of u have beards20:45
Khertan_half ...20:45
Anwarboy11and have a mug of coffee in ure left hand20:45
Khertan_ok ...20:45
Khertan_i go out20:45
ShadowJKI have a pint of cola in my left hand20:45
Anwarboy11and dual screen monitors20:45
lardmanRST38h: I've always wondered if a pedophile is someone who loves feet?20:45
airstrikeAnwarboy11: i'm 24 and i don't even code for a living :P20:45
*** qwerty12_N810 is now known as FBIqwertydapedo20:45
javispedrodang it. and I know I'm not a underground FBI agent.20:45
airstrikei just like doing some coding on my spare time.. it eases my mind20:46
Khertan_27 professionnal 4d developper20:46
timeless_mbpjavispedro: you're an aboveground one?20:46
Anwarboy11i got my maths a lvl in a month!20:46
RST38hlardman: or walking.20:46
Khertan_so anyone use git push on his n900 ?20:47
* ShadowJK used to do coding for fun, but now it's more of a necessity in spare time to fix gaps where existing tools fail20:47
airstrikeAnwarboy11: be glad you're young and when you're 24 like me (or 40+ like some here), computers are going to rock even more :P20:47
FBIqwertydapedoRST38h: Or wanking to feet20:47
airstrikeand C++ is going to be a thing of the past20:47
RST38hlardman: personally, I always wondered of a difference between pedagogues and pedophiles20:47
lardmanRST38h: or soil, so wikipedia tells me :)20:47
airstrikeShadowJK: also that20:47
fiferboylardman: Or.. podiatry?20:47
RST38hlardman: they both like children, right?20:47
Khertan_airstirke it s already a things of the past20:47
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Anwarboy11i think i shud just go back to cod4......20:47
lardmanah, latin ped- = foot, but greek pedo = child or soil20:48
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airstrikeor not and?20:48
javispedroKhertan_: eaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasy: port libcurl4 under a diferent soname and then create a special build of git-core.20:48
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wanttousegitpushjavispedro : hum ...20:49
javispedroand I think I have the libcurl4 part already done.20:49
javispedrowell, halfdone.20:49
wanttousegitpushpython doesn t want to compile c libs :)20:49
Anwarboy11zagg better make an invisiblesheild for n90020:49
lardmanhmm, continuing my grammatical quest, in England we use paedo, no clue where that comes from20:50
* javispedro hides20:50
qwerty12_N810paedo: named after lardman20:50
wanttousegitpushanwarboy11 ... u remember me that i need to finish the saber20:50
lardmanyou wish ;)20:50
RST38hlardman: that is solely to fool the web filters =)20:50
Anwarboy11finish the sabre....?20:51
RST38hlardman: see, you brits are more cunning than americans =)20:51
qwerty12_N810lardman: Your victim wished it wasn't true, as well...20:51
Anwarboy11sabre.. im in england not america20:51
lardmanyeah, is that a surprise20:51
wanttousegitpushyep msaber a stupid useless light saber imitation for fremantle20:51
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RST38hin England, that should be Fremantel, shouldn't it?20:52
javispedrothat sounds French.20:52
Anwarboy11real light sabre that i made!!!
RST38hsaber, fremantel...20:52
lardmanRST38h: saber is US20:52
lardmanwe say sabre20:52
Anwarboy11no in england it would be .le20:52
Anwarboy11an .re20:52
Khertanwhat sound french ? saber ?20:52
RST38hok, so Fremantel is American. Have to inform GAN, he will love it20:52
fiferboyYou guys talking aboot Freemantle?20:53
fiferboyOops, Canadian accent...20:53
Khertanwe say 'sabre' in french20:53
lardmanfiferboy: is that the Canadian spelling? ;)20:53
RST38hFermantle really, but it is a secret20:53
Anwarboy11watch my vid ??
Khertanfree mental ?20:53
Anwarboy11no its mental actually20:53
lcukKhertan, ?20:53
fiferboyQole said I have a Canadian accent.  And he grew up an hour from where I live!20:54
Khertanyep lcuk,20:54
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fiferboyIt's insulting, is what it is20:54
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Khertani read that u use git on your n900 on the mailing list20:54
fiferboyHey gnuton!20:54
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lcukyes Khertan20:54
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Ignore him, he's a traitor to the West Coast20:54
lcuki missed the question i saw the ? tho20:54
Khertandid you are able to push to ?20:54
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Are you trying to divide Canadians like your North/South UK split?20:55
* lcuk just ate lovely bacon coated chicken20:55
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javispedroKhertan: not being able to use git ssh is known since n8x0 times.20:55
lcukKhertan, no20:55
javispedrohey, we're in n8x0 times still.20:55
timeless_mbpgnuton: you've been sorely missed20:55 git services need HTTPS protocol20:55
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lcukwhich is not compiled in20:55
* RST38h wonders if Extras-Devel will be merciful today and he can dput20:55
lcukand would apparantly be a pita20:55
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Of course not! You have Quebec to do that for you...20:55
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lcukand the normal GIT: protocol is not configured on either20:55
fiferboyThat's different.  Quebes isn't part of Canada20:55
lardmanrubbish, looks like AWS doens't like returning UK EAN data, so webscraping is therefore fully justified20:55
Khertanlcuk ok20:56
RST38hfiferboy: really?20:56
Anwarboy11i remember wen i went to canada20:56
fiferboyRST38h: Well, they don't think they are...20:56
lardmans/returning UK EAN\returning results for UK EAN20:56
Anwarboy11the money had the queen on it!!20:56
Khertanthis because in your email i understood that u use it to push20:56
gnutontimeless_mbp: Hi!20:56
lcukKhertan, both directions20:56
timeless_mbpgnuton: what have you been up to?20:56
fiferboyAnwarboy11: That's our Queen too20:56
Khertanlcuk yep20:56
Anwarboy115p's here looked like the 10 cents ther20:56
RST38hfiferboy: that never prevented anyone from maintaining territorial integrity =)20:56
Anwarboy11i actually spent that canadaian change here20:57
Anwarboy111 cent as a penny20:57
Anwarboy11some people dont even check20:57
Khertanlcuk so if i understand it s require to be recompied20:57
Khertanmaybe i should take a look at it20:57
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lcukgood luck20:57
RST38hwell, in upstate NY it is common to get .CA coins as change20:57
Khertanreally ?20:57
RST38hby mistake of course, they are similar20:57
Khertandid you have try ?20:57
lcukrequires CURL to be built with the https support20:58
lcukand afaik it doesnt build20:58
lcukor something like that20:58
javispedroI just remember that I tried and stoped.20:58
lardmanthey have different money in California?20:58
lcuki encountered same problem when i tried to build git direct from main central git thingy20:58
javispedroso maybe there was a nontrivial build problem or maybe I just got bored :P20:58
gnutontimeless_mbp: I've been sleeping...:P20:58
timeless_mbprip van winkle eh?20:58
fiferboylardman: Yes, they have IOUs from the government...20:58
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qwerty12_N810fiferboy: haha20:59
RST38hlardman: Yea, their quaters have Schwarzenegger face on them20:59
* RST38h ducks20:59
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javispedroduck and cover!21:00
RST38h[and the edge of each coin is shaper as a beer bottle opener]21:00
lardmanI like the sound of california more and more21:00
Anwarboy11the irc client dont support jap charecter21:00
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lcuklardman, you gotta have boob implants done before moving there21:01
qwerty12_N810lardman: He said beer, not wine21:01
ShadowJKwhat are you using?21:01
fiferboygnuton: From gitorious, it looks like you have been busy with the sprint!!21:01
ShadowJKthere's a setting for it21:01
lardmanqwerty12_N810: I drink all sorts; legally21:01
gnutonfiferboy: hi! :D21:01
fiferboygnuton: Hey.21:01
lcuklardman, did you ever put any mic initialization code up?21:01
gnutonfiferboy: Yes.. I'm still busy... We have still things to fix... :/21:01
ShadowJKnot sure, I haven't used mirc since 199721:01
qwerty12_N810lardman: it shows!21:01
* qwerty12_N810 hides21:02
lardmanoi! :p21:02
lcukgnuton, its lookin good tho21:02
fiferboygnuton: I've been looking at finger scrolling some.  I can't figure out what the problem with performance is when running in scratchbox21:02
fiferboygnuton: And I can't compile for ARMEL to test on the device...21:02
gnutonfiferboy: why can't you?21:02
Anwarboy11kan niemand my verstaan21:02
fiferboygnuton: Well, I can grab the *gui*.so from the armel compile (I forgot about that), but webkit never links for me in scratchbox armel21:03
javispedrofiferboy: dunno if this is related, but if you don't have GL accelerated Xephyr the compositor will greatly slowdown any drawing.21:03
Anwarboy11no new manga out today =[21:03
gnutonfiferboy: gui is the module you have to test.. :P21:04
Anwarboy11did the n810 support bbc iplayer?21:04
* lcuk has finally brought his n900 to its knees!21:04
lcuk0.75s per frame!21:04
fiferboygnuton: Yeah, I forgot I could just stop the compile and use the so.  I wanted debs!21:04
qwerty12_N810lcuk: The N900 doesn't give BJs...21:05
* Mousey takes it off christmas list21:05
lcukoh errr right, yeah, i knew that21:05
Anwarboy11does n900 support mms yet21:05
* lcuk gets a tissue21:05
gnutonfiferboy: you can install the deb from then uploading the new libQtGUI21:05
fiferboygnuton: That is what I will do21:06
gnutonfiferboy: it works if there are no changes in core..21:06
ShadowJKno mms21:06
gnutonfiferboy: at moment all changes of this sprint are still in qt-n900+w3421:06
fiferboygnuton: Ok.21:07
RST38hlcuk: 0.75s is kinda low, what are you rendering? =)21:07
fiferboygnuton: When are you targeting for the next release?21:07
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gnutonfiferboy: good question..21:07
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gnutonit was supposed to be already in testing21:07
* lardman gives up on AWS21:08
lcukRST38h, taking my normal YUV layer, converting to RGB, making that into an XImage, XPutImage and XFlush onto actual window, wait for compositor to nick it as a texture, render it into normal place, rinse repeat21:08
qwerty12_N810lardman: GET SOME NUTS21:08
lardmanBA would side with me on this one21:08
lcuklardman, you will find its better to use the offical web api from companies21:08
lcuki know its harder :S21:08
lardmanlcuk: the docs are crap21:08
gnutonfiferboy: but there are still issue to fix.. I'm working night and day.... I can't go more fast...21:08
lardmancan't be arsed comes to mind21:08
lcukyeah but better than having it die cos they alter weblayout a tinybit21:09
fiferboygnuton: Yeah, it sounds like a big task!21:09
lardmanas long as it works for me... ;)21:09
lcukcustomer #121:09
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lardmanbut yeah, patches welcome etc21:09
javispedrolcuk: you could use a gl es shader for rgb->yuv21:09
lcukjavispedro, patches welcome21:09
lcuktheres the code21:10
javispedrogetting hardware myself and testing diferent drnoksnes output methods comes first :)21:10
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lcukreplace that with a shader version and ill love you long time!21:10
gnutonfiferboy: but anyway I come back to code... se u later..21:10
fiferboygnuton: I will let you know if I make any progress on fingerscrolling21:10
lcukyeah lol21:11
gnutonfiferboy: There is just one big thing to fix in the fingerscroll21:11
fiferboygnuton: Which is?21:11
RST38hlcuk: why on earth would you do that? =)21:11
lcuki wonder if PowerVR_3d_RGB->YUV->XV would be faster than21:11
RST38hlcuk: they say shader-based rendering is overrated21:11
lcukRST38h, one time only21:11
javispedroI don't know if rgb->yub is doable.21:11
lcukwhen the app is minimized21:12
RST38hby hand? doable21:12
lcukand it zooms back to the app list thingy21:12
gnutonfiferboy: basically QComboBoxes now shows a dialog with a QListView (it looks like HildonTouchSelector)21:12
javispedroI mean by a shader. I'm still reading :)21:12
lcukrgb->yuv is entirely doable21:12
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, my screen problem is the wire if it goes out of cal and I slap it it comes back in cal21:12
lcukyuv->rgb and rgb->yuv21:13
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lardmanis it a known bug that if you tap too quickly in a newly opened app, you actually tap the desktop?21:13
solarionI don't think the gamuts completely overlap, though21:13
gnutonfiferboy: well, if I add a item it doesn't scroll anymore.. I think this is a new bug..21:13
lcukno, but its practical21:13
javispedrolardman: yep, but don't remember the bug #21:13
lardmansolarion: they can be converted assuming you choose one iitc21:13
gnutonfiferboy: added yesterday by Eetu.21:13
lcukRST38h, anyway, if i convert my YUV overlay to a pixmap and draw that on the normal x11 window21:13
fiferboygnuton: I will look at it21:13
lcuki can then turn off the overlay21:13
gnutonfiferboy: it worked nicely in scratchbox21:13
lcukand it zooms back properly21:13
lcuksame principle will work for desktop widgets21:13
MyrttiI want a BBC Micro21:14
lardmanjavispedro: cool, as long as it will get sorted21:14
fiferboygnuton: If you add an item while the dialog is open?  Or after you close it?21:14
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GeneralAntilleslardman, something like this:
lcukMyrtti, at weekend at barcamp21:14
solarionlcuk: sure, but my point is taht some pedant is always gonna come in and say it's not the same21:14
solarionlike me. :)21:14
lcukthere was a presentation from someone who used a bbcmicro21:14
javispedrolcuk: a nice thing to try.  "PowerVR_3d_RGB->YUV->XV vs powervr_RGB_3d->Compositor"21:15
lcukto control church organ21:15
* solarion was built with -pedantic21:15
gnutonI don't know yet...  QComboBoxes if editable are able to add item in the QListiView that after shows into the popup.21:15
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javispedrobut I think powervr->lcd is faster than xv->lcd without compositor.21:15
fiferboygnuton: Okay, I will look21:15
lcuksolarion, its a scaled preview21:15
lcuki dont give a damn ;)21:15
fiferboygnuton: Maybe I will drag lbt into the fray21:15
lcukpatches welcome21:15
lcukas lardman says :D21:15
gnutonfiferboy: how much time do you need for it..21:15
lcukjavispedro, rly?21:15
lcukless bandwidth still from yuv21:16
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lcukcomes down to fill rates21:16
fiferboyI am compiling the latest git right now, and I will check it out hopefully in a couple hours21:16
gnutonfiferboy: sorry for this question.. but I'm running out of the time.. and I was going to have it ready in 1 or 2 days21:16
lcukand where the framebuffer actually is21:16
lardmanGeneralAntilles: yes indeed, the screenshot cheat stuff not working properly21:16
lcukand intermediate moves21:16
fiferboygnuton: I will try to do everything I can tonight, I will let you know where I am with it tomorrow21:16
gnutonfiferboy: ok. then checkout qt-n900+w3421:16
lcuksolarion, infact... the color thing21:16
fiferboygnuton: I have done that, compiling in ARMEL to run on the device21:16
lcuki had the order wrong last night for early tests21:16
lcukBGR was as RGB21:17
solarioncolors suck21:17
lcukand it looked really funky21:17
gnutonfiferboy: ok.. great21:17
solarionwe should just plug directly into the optical nerve21:17
javispedrolcuk: really dunno. probably for video xv is still faster (since "powervr is not the best way to just put pixels on screen")21:17
solarionanything before that is stupid21:17
lcukyour optic nerve is different to mine21:17
solarionIdeally, we just plug right into the brain21:17
* solarion waves his hand dismissively21:17
lcukjavispedro, yeah theres tricks each has21:17
gnutonfiferboy: btw joing #qt-maemo.. that's the official Channel of Maemo Qt (It has been done by Trolltech people)21:17
solarionyour cones are different from mine too21:17
solarionlcuk: you have some nerve!21:18
gnutonfiferboy: s/joing/join21:18
javispedroand doing rgb->texture->powervr shader->yuv->read from powervr->screen might be slowest.21:18
lcukhow many channels does qt have!21:18
fiferboygnuton: I'm in21:18
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fiferboylcuk: Just enough21:19
gnutonanyone interested in Fremantle Qt (Official & Community) can join that channel21:19
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* fiferboy pokes lbt21:19
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lardmanhi hrw21:27
lardman is producing an error, and thoughts?
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lardmanfood time, bbiab21:28
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fiferboylardman: (for when you get back)21:30
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fiferboylardman: line 117 s/OssoABookModel/OssoABookContactModel/21:31
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fiferboylardman: I think that should fix both errors21:32
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* fiferboy wonders if the imported for extras-devel has stopped21:35
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Flandry_froze for me too21:39
Flandry_back now though21:39
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fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Why did you only give my app one thumb up :P21:41
* timeless_mbp looks around21:41
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* timeless_mbp fishes around for people w/ n900's and a willingness to use unofficial content21:46
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* elven fishes around for a n90021:47
timeless_mbpmine already swam away21:47
Stskeepswithout flashable image or even flasher nearby sorry :P21:47
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: ship me one ;p21:47
lcuktimeless, ill swap im trying to get rgb conversion working21:47
lcukand everything is rosetinted21:47
timeless_mbpStskeeps: oh, i got 41-10 !21:47
RST38hPoor converter trying to squeeze a bitmap into 14 colors...21:47
timeless_mbpa little elf dropped it on one of my devices :)21:47
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javispedroheh. ARM GPU chip (Mali) has an OGLES extension to read yuv textures "as is".21:52
javispedrofastly, according to their propaganda.21:52
javispedro"Can read both packed and planar (2 and 3 planes) YUV formats"21:53
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lcukjavispedro, which would match with...21:55
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lcukwell, not quite21:56
lcukbut that was the first time i thought it was possible21:56
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javispedroand I still think it's possible, at least for 1:1:1 formats21:58
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javispedroI mean, I can already think of a way to do it for 1:1:1 . But not yet for 4:2:2.21:59
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darkhi i have a problem with my media player22:02
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darkmy library doesnt update22:02
darkwhat can i do22:02
darki need help22:03
andre__dark, how long did you wait?22:03
andre__did you reboot?22:03
andre__and which hardware?22:04
darki reboot it and nothing22:04
Stskeepsevening andre__22:04
andre__so i'd guess for
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darki read it all and nothing22:08
andre__dark, reading all is better than reading nothing22:09
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darki perform all the steps in the page and nothing22:10
andre__which ones?22:10
darkformat both micro sd and internal22:11
darkdelete the .meta_data22:11
darksorry .meta_storage22:12
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andre__dark, you formatted? in 3 minutes? that was quick and i have my doubts.22:12
andre__what about ?22:13
darky did it yesterday22:13
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darkand i played with the backups22:13
andre__so, tried that package mentioned in comment 14?22:13
darkapt-get install osso...-version-rx4422:15
darkand nothing22:15
andre__what is "and nothing"?22:15
andre__please be exact22:15
andre__otherwise i guess, and waste time...22:15
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darki installed the osso soft and update my list of app manager22:16
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andre__how exactly did you install the "osso soft"?22:16
andre__can you please explain, step by step?22:16
darkon my terminal22:17
andre__sudo gainroot ?22:17
darkapt-get install osso-software-version-rx4422:17
andre__why that?22:17
andre__why ""apt-get install osso-software-version-rx44""?22:17
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darkto update and try to reintall the metalayer-crawler22:18
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darkthe problem here is the metalayer-crawler22:21
darkthats it linked with media player22:21
darkif im correct22:21
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andre__dark, please read comment 14 again in that bug report22:26
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darkand now appear no clips22:34
darky reboot it22:35
andre__dark, being verbose by exactly explaining your steps helps.22:35
andre__i recommend trying what is described in comment 14 in that bug report. if you don't want to try, okay. no other ideas here.22:36
darki just finished to try the comment 1422:36
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darki think its works let me check and confirm22:37
GeneralAntillesWhere's fiferboy when you need him?22:38
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darkits works22:39
darklet me tell you how i need to perform22:39
darkfor everybody22:39
darkfirst need to be root22:40
lcukput it in the bug report?22:40
lcukso its together?22:40
lcuknot here22:40
lcukwhere ppl wont find it22:40
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lbtVDVsx: ping... Re spam?22:43
* Jaffa uncurries22:43
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Ceron^"Olemme saaneet Nokialta arvion jotta Suomen toimitukset alkavat joulukuun alkupuolella.22:46
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Ceron^ Ilmeisen todellinen syy on että he haluavat viimeistellä softaa, se on tietysti hyvä ja toivotaan että tämä aikataulu ei enää siirry."22:46
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Ceron^i said it would be 201022:47
Ceron^at so it will be :D22:47
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rm_youanyone have a sec to answer a german language question so I can move on to actually coding? :P22:48
GeneralAntillesMr. Unproductive22:49
lcukgfi rm_you22:49
rm_youmy ex was in town last week22:50
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rm_youand yesterday my house was burglarized22:50
lcukyou saw jott again :D22:50
rm_youso shhh22:50
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rm_youalso it turns out I'm failing the one class i have left before graduation (german)22:50
rm_youbut if i finish this essay I can start coding :)22:51
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GeneralAntillesWhat's with people who think modularity is cheaper in mobile devices?23:01
Stskeepspeople who never saw pci slots23:02
GeneralAntillesSilly, silly, silly.23:02
SpeedEvilmodularity has _so_ many costs23:03
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SpeedEvilYou've got the reliability and cost and size penalty of connectors, the difficulty of picking the right size of modules which will of course always be a compromise and involve wasted space, the added weight/volume/... of seperately packaged modules,23:04
SpeedEvilcases to guide and secure them and...23:04
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lcukyeah, damn them for modularizing thse pesky chips and things23:04
GeneralAntillesFCC costs will be fun, too.23:04
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: yeah23:04
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lcukshouldnt that be much simpler23:05
SpeedEvillcuk: chips aren't the same thing. You assemble all the chips onto one PCB23:05
lcukgroup of black boxes fcc approved on their own23:05
SpeedEvillcuk: this has all the wiring integrated into one unit, and does not change, is compact, reliable, fairly light and cheap.23:05
SpeedEvilAnd can be FCC'd in one unit23:05
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lcukeven tho individually the gps is used in 200 devices23:06
* GeneralAntilles sighs at lcuk.23:06
lcukso gets fcced 200 times23:06
SpeedEvilYes - however.23:06
lcuki just like lego blocks GeneralAntilles :P23:06
SpeedEvilyou have 3 module slots, and 40 seperate devices. How many combinations is this?23:07
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GeneralAntillesModularity is fragile, bulky and expensive.23:07
Stskeepswe have maemo5 on beagle \o/23:07
SpeedEvillcuk: Unfortunately, when you add stuff together, the sum of the emissions is not the sum of all the emissions measured independantly.23:07
GeneralAntillesMobile devices don't have a long lifespan23:08
lcukw00t Stskeeps23:08
SpeedEvillcuk: So you can't simply say phone + gps EMI = phone EMI + GPS EMI23:08
SpeedEvilbecause it doesn't work like that.23:08
RST38hDepends on how you carry yours23:08
lcukisnt that where it started? :D23:08
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, wish I could find a cheap touchscreen.23:08
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lcukSpeedEvil, good point23:09
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RST38hSpeed: In practice it is cheaper and more compact to just throw in everything23:13
SpeedEvilRST38h: Almost without exception, yes.23:13
RST38hModules = mechanics = expensive+unreliable23:13
SpeedEvilRST38h: though not populating boards can be cheap. yes - that was what I was arguing - when I said that modularity has many costs23:13
RST38hyes but you can't populate that board later =)23:13
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SpeedEvilSure you can.23:14
SpeedEvil(though others may have less option)23:14
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lcukany idea which gstreamer source doe sthe mic23:17
lcukdoes the mic23:17
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lardmanlcuk: might be a v4l2 src23:25
lcukwhat did you use?23:26
lcuki have the test audio and outputs side running23:26
lardmanon the n8x0 was a dsppcmsrc iirc23:26
lardmanbut will be different on the N90023:26
lcukahh yeah23:26
lcuki have had head in yuv rgb stuff quite a bit23:27
lcukthought i needed to hear something else for a little while23:27
lardmantry /dev/dsp*23:28
lardmanas the mic23:28
lardmananyway, bedtime, feeling pretty shattered23:29
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lardmannight all23:29
lcukgnite simon23:29
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RST38hwholesalers in china are sorry to disturb my precious time23:36
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rm_yousrsly, any native german speakers online currently? :P23:46
qwerty12_N810Does knowing German swear words qualify one as a native speaker?23:47
rm_youalso, I've been thinking of continuing to handle backlight AND volume in ABL in fremantle and manually remove the builtin volume statusbar bit, because I'm discovering that space is still seriously limited in the statusbar23:47
GeneralAntillesDo it.23:48
Xisdibikrm_you: im not a native german speaker but i talk to 2 of them, whats up?23:48
rm_youqwerty12_N810: if you know the best way to say "You are wrong" in german ("du bist falsch" is the best i can come up with and is apparently wrong >_<)23:48
GeneralAntillesOpen source > Nokia shit.23:48
rm_you^^ Xisdibik23:49
Xisdibikread it, asking23:49
qwerty12_N810rm_you: I'm not a native speaker in that case...23:49
rm_youit seems like a stupid simple phrase23:49
rm_youbut apparently is not immediately obvious to a native english speaker >_>23:49
Xisdibikrm_you:   he asked :  well there is an elegant way, a rude way...23:50
qwerty12_N810rm_you: Although, if you have to do essays, anyway, why not go for a subject where you can do them in a language you speak: English :p23:50
Xisdibikrm_you: which would you like23:50
FlyserDu hast unrecht would be a possible translation23:50
GeneralAntillespupnik, help rm_you with his German homework so he can actually be productive. :P23:50
Xisdibikrm_you: most of the time i would say "das stimmt nicht" which means "that's not true"23:50
pupnikgermans do not say "you are wrong~23:51
pupnikit is a silly statement23:51
pupnikpeople arent wrong23:51
pupniktheir statements can be23:51
Xisdibikrm_you: very gentleman-like would be "Da liegen Sie falsch."23:51
pupnikso germans say "that is wrong"23:51
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rm_youso like23:52
Xisdibikpupnik: i disagree, alot of americans are wrong ;)23:52
rm_youinstead of saying "he was wrong" you could say "he thought wrong"?23:52
* Xisdibik is american23:52
rm_youFlyser: i thought Unrecht was like... injustice :P like... that's wrong in a moral sense23:53
RST38hBut not Germans!23:53
* RST38h found it the hard way in the Frankfurt airport once23:53
* timeless_mbp pokes people23:53
timeless_mbprm_you: did you install my package? :)23:53
pupnikive noticed some interesting differences to the anglophile us traditions23:53
* Xisdibik is poked23:53
rm_youtimeless_mbp: which one23:53
Flyserrm_you: means both injustice and wrong23:53
timeless_mbpthe localization23:53
rm_youah what's it called23:53
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp: give me my n900 and i will be glad to ;23:53
pupnikyes rm_you23:53
pupnikalso depends on context23:54
pupnikin pub you say "du idiot!"23:54
rm_youpupnik: so... Er glaubt, dass er das Auto reparieren kann, aber er glaubt falsch. ?23:54
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rm_youfor example23:54
pupnikthat is right23:54
Flyserer liegt falsch would be better23:54
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Xisdibikpupnik: how about Du bist ein Dummkopf? ;)23:55
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pupnikthcould be friendly or cause for a vicil suit23:56
FlyserXisdibik: lol. Noone uses the word "Dummkopf"23:56
Flyserat least not where I live23:56
GeneralAntillesTalk is like a room full of idiots and trolls.23:57
GeneralAntillesIt's one vicious cycle.23:57
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timeless_mbpcould someone please tell me what "enterotabletit" is23:57
fiferboy_n900lardman - ping23:58
pupnik"software is cake you can have and eat too" -arnim23:58
RST38hdoes it cause diabetes?23:58
pupnikwhy GeneralAntilles23:58
fiferboy_n900lardman|gone - here?23:58
GeneralAntillespupnik, the trolls troll, the idiots eat it up, the trolls troll some more.23:58
GeneralAntillesEnd result is massive IQ drops.23:59
rm_youalright, finishing up this paragraph and maybe can actually get something done23:59
rm_youfor once23:59
qwerty12_N810fiferboy_n900: He went to sleep23:59
GeneralAntillesfiferboy_n900, how about some applets relating to SMS/mail/calls, etc?23:59
rm_youi'm just glad the burglers decided my server and networking wasn't worth taking when they could just grab a PS3 and a wii23:59
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: Seen conversations-home-widget? That one does SMS23:59
pupnikGeneralAntilles: happens in various forums - sad23:59
GeneralAntillespupnik, that cycle drives out the reasonable people and things just start over again at a new, lower level.23:59

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