IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-10-26

code177that looks interesting00:00
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code177ooh python example00:00
johnxI will now be off-topic. this is a laser plotter:
fiferboyfiferwife doesn't like the N900 ay the dinner table00:01
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code177hey also, on the plus side00:01
code177you just made me relook at ym threads00:02
Stskeepstime for a new wife00:02
lbtfiferboy: listen to fiferwife00:02
johnxfiferboy, get her one00:02
code177got that 15 seconds for landscapes & skies down to 3 seconds00:02
lbtgravy + n900 == sad fiferboy00:02
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Make sure you keep a close eye on it... You may find it in a garbage compactor, somewhere...00:02
fiferboyShe could have my N810 if I was keeping this one00:03
lcuki think fiferwife is just jealouse and doesnt want castoffs00:03
lcukYOU can have the n810 and she will keep the n90000:03
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code177anyhow.. so how should i handle 1-4 desktop wallpapers00:04
* code177 stares00:04
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Anwarboy11equirectangular wallpapers00:06
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fiferboyTime to go rake some leaves00:06
fiferboylater all00:06
Anwarboy11any dev's here?00:06
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lcukAnwarboy11, he said 1-4, theres 2 things he can do, either layout as required, or always show only the first with a subscript count of how many00:07
lcukcode177, the default wallpaper chooser shows a single icon00:07
lcukand name00:07
lcukno matter how many are in the pack00:08
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code177it would be nice to be able to show more than one wallpaper at once though00:08
lcukyeah thats easy00:08
code177lol is it?00:08
code177ya but it's not set up like that00:08
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code177OK let's reframe this00:09
code177you have a window00:09
code177it has a toolbar with Info, Rate and Add/Save icons00:09
code177in between teh window and the title bar you have a blank space00:09
lirican't figure this thing out. I've completed a firmware upgrade from the updates, now it is not showing the bootloader screen and boots directly from the flash drive00:09
code177in this space, you need to show the wallpapers in that wallpaper pack00:09
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code177how do you show them? (visually, not codewise)00:09
lcuk^^^ that up there was visual00:10
code177that's a list00:10
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lcuka 2x2 square00:10
lcukthis one shows a single icon:00:10
lcukbecause thats all that is needed00:10
lcuknow, for 2, split the size in half00:10
lcukshow as large as possible within the available space00:11
code177do you think it would be best to take the fullsize wallpaper and resize it down?00:12
code177if i did that, theoretically i could store it as a pixbuf and then use that for saving it, if they decide to keep it00:12
code177one less download00:12
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lcukcode177, if you are a front end for the n900wallpapers site00:18
lcukand it already offers thumbnailed versions00:18
lcukuse them00:18
code177yeah those ones were too small, so i have it generate 200px wide ones now00:19
lcukso.. workflow00:19
lcukyou connect to website00:19
lcukignore the thumbnails it offers00:19
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code177you know i'm the guy who made the site right?00:20
lcukdownload the full high resolution pics of everything00:20
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lcukthumb them down and let user select00:20
lcukeven if he wants 1/20000:20
lcukcode177, but you arent the guy using 3g data to download it00:20
lcukreally well done on the site btw00:20
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code177well that's why ium not making everyone download the fullsizes immediately lol00:21
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lcukwhy cant you use the thumbs tho00:21
lcukwhy are they right for the web00:21
lcukand not for the app00:21
code177i am using the thumbs!00:21
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lcuk<code177> yeah those ones were too small, so i have it generate 200px wide ones now00:21
code177the ones on the site are 110px wide, the ones on the app are also from the site, 200px wid00:21
lcukgenerate client side?00:21
code177but they're on the site00:21
code177they're server side00:22
code177they get generated on upload00:22
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lcukreasonable enough00:22
code177actually speaking of the site00:23
code177im going to add a "rate" section soon00:23
code177which just randomly displayed wallpapers for rating00:23
code177that way more than just the recent ones will get rated properly00:23
johnxshould it tend to show the ones with the lowest number of ratings first?00:24
lcukjust make a variant on the browser00:24
code177that's what im thinking00:24
johnxI like it :)00:24
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lcukgo spend 1/2 hour browsing00:24
lcukyou can rate or goonto 4 other random ones00:24
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lcukthose that like rating and tagging do so00:25
lcukthose that just browse also do00:25
code177n900wallpapers does some crazy traffic00:25
* lcuk nods00:25
code177which i was totally not expecting00:25
code177i was figuring it'd get like maybe 500 pageviews a day, tops00:25
rangeAnd that for only 300 people >:)00:25
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lcukyeah the infrastucture needs to be tight00:26
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code177since it went live it's done nearly 90,000 views00:26
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lcukcode177, dont blame it00:28
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code177well it surprised me for sure00:28
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pupnikcould python be slimmed down from 15MB (diablo)00:29
luke-jrwhy bother00:30
luke-jrpython sucks00:30
pupnikit yould suck less at 5MB00:30
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pupnikgot a non-python youtube viewer for maemo luke-jr ?00:32
lcukpupnik, luke-jr where is the breakeven point00:32
lcukpython download of -30mb ?00:32
anidelsorry I'm back.. emergency in the house (spider innocently attacking arachnophobic girlfriend)00:32
lcuko_O anidel00:32
lcuki had same00:32
lcukshe screamed and jumped00:32
anidelwho's arachnophobic?00:32
qwerty12_N810pupnik: Digia@scene, but that brings in Qt which is more than Python's 15MB...00:32
anideloh :)00:32
anidelshe's still shaking (my gf)00:33
pupnikheh qwerty12_N81000:33
anidelhi qwerty00:33
lcukthis ran along the arm of her chair00:33
pupnikboth the beauty and the curse of linux00:33
anidellcuk: gulp!00:33
qwerty12_N810Hiya, anidel, how are you?00:33
lcukshe swore00:33
anidelI'm fine thanks00:33
lcuklots and loudly00:33
anidelyeah.. same00:33
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anideleheh well it's understandable.. hard to control a phobia00:34
lcukwas it a big spider?00:34
anideli've sealed the fireplace00:34
anidelwe think it came from there00:34
anidelsharing the two "portrait" mode screenshots00:35
lcukwe once went on a sealant hunt around old house00:35
anideleheheh I think I'll have to do the same tomorrow00:36
lcukbut its autumn00:36
lcukwhen the males go looking for a mate00:36
anidelstill too many around00:36
anidelthat's why00:36
* lcuk nods00:36
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GeneralAntillesBut the spiders keep out the other insects. :P00:37
lcukthese dont00:37
anidelthey also keep my gf out00:37
lcukthey normally live out of the way00:37
anidelnot good00:37
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anidelwon't show that link to my gf for sure :)00:38
lcuki hide the monitor when she comes in sometimes00:39
lcuki tell her she can look00:39
lcukbut she shouldnt00:39
anidellike my portrait mode ? :)00:40
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qwerty12_N810Does switching desktop work properly? :p00:40
anideldamn didn't try00:41
lcuko_O anidel that highlights another problem with rotation!!!!!00:41
lcukthe desktop background itself00:41
anidel:) I think it would00:41
lcukthat should zoom and rotate too00:41
lcukand would panning occur up/down or side/side00:41
* lcuk disabled panning00:42
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anideli think the bg should not rotate00:42
anidelbut you should specify a different one00:43
anidelso 4 screens, 8 bgs00:43
code177i'd be more inclined to say portrait should only have one bg00:43
lcukit depends00:43
lcukif its up/down00:43
lcukit would be cool to have elevator view00:43
anidelin that case just flip it00:43
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lcuki have to vanish anyway00:44
anidelbut rotating a 800x480 to 480x800 it's bad :)00:44
pupniknot quite fast enough to play new youtube fÃmt sometimes00:44
anidellot's of dark bars00:44
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lcuk800*480 to 1333*80000:44
anidelwouldn't it look bad?00:45
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lcukdepends what your source image was00:45
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lcukif it was higher res to begin with, no00:45
lcukif it was lower res and grainy jpeg, yeah00:45
anidelyup..but often they're resized to 800x48000:45
anidelto save space and load fast00:45
lcuki know00:45
anidelI think android does what you said00:46
anidel(if you enable desktop rotation in a mod000:46
anideldeveloper question00:47
anidelwhere should I look if I want to slidein a toolbar from a side?00:47
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lcuki dunno00:47
anidelit's hidden, you do a gesture, it slides in...00:47
lcukdoes it happen anywhere else00:47
anidelno I want to make it like that00:48
anidelbut it doesn't handle gtk widgets yet...00:48
anidelgtk animator, seems luggish00:48
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anidelHildonAnimator<Something>? no idea00:48
lcukbtw, these gesture things, wont people have problems with backported stuff00:49
lcukcos they cant slide in over the bezel00:49
anidelit's not really a gesture.. it's what you do to bring in mouse mode in browser00:49
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johnxanidel, tear does that00:49
johnxnot based on gesture, but keypress00:50
anidelalso fennec I think...00:50
anidelhave to look at the source code... hoped for a straight answer "look there"00:50
lcuki just click in top right00:50
lcukand it does things00:50
anidelno,  I want xournal to start fullscreen and nothing more than the journal itself00:51
anidelit starts with the toolbar shown, then it'll hide00:51
anidelso he knows it's there00:51
lcukif hes looking00:51
anidelthen either keypress or slide gesture00:51
lcukand he knows how to bring it back afterwards00:51
anidelif not.. bad for him :)00:51
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anidelbut I'll show a banner as well00:52
anidelfirst time00:52
* lcuk nods00:52
lcukcant you just change the X location of the toolbar when the spot is hit00:52
lcukor keypressed00:52
pupnikanybody have a workaround for youtubes too heavy for mplayer on n8x0?00:52
anidelyep.. but it's not fluid the movement00:52
pupnikmaybe a fmt= string00:52
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Flandryhas anyone had trouble with scratchbox segfaulting and then the sdl not working thereafter...?00:53
anidelI've got to take control of pixelpipe00:54
lcuk"take control" lol00:54
pupnikfmt=6 is the answer!00:55
anidellcuk it's too damn powerful.. :)00:55
anidelsimple yet powerful..00:56
anidelit's not enough to simply register your services00:56
anidelyou've got to control them ;)00:56
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lcukheh you dont want auto uploaded photos00:57
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anidelI want to control where to show them :)00:57
anidellast time I've uploaded several pictures.. and it tweeted two links for each picture!00:58
* lcuk nods00:58
anidelonce for twitpic and one for pi.pe00:58
lcukit was me that told you lol00:58
Flandrywould someone please paste somewhere the errors that SDK runs when starting it up?00:58
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lcukhi javispedro00:59
lcukFlandry, mm?00:59
Flandrymy app was working fine until scratchbox segfaulted. Now, i get an error that there is no SDL video device00:59
Flandryso i'm trying to figure out where the problem is00:59
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javispedroscratchbox segfaulting?01:00
Flandryyeah it was weird01:00
javispedrowhich scratchbox binary?01:00
lcukreboot desktop?01:00
Flandrythe shell got all flaky01:00
Flandryand then it segfaulted and the shell closed01:00
javispedrothe shell segfaulted I guess01:00
javispedroso, did you remember to export DISPLAY in the new shell?01:00
Flandryit said segfault in scratchbox01:01
luke-jrpupnik: I have a BASH script01:01
Flandrythe shell went down latre01:01
Flandryi have since then rebooted01:01
Flandrytrying to get it to work01:01
javispedroand is Xephyr and the hildon GUI working?01:01
Flandryi can start and it boots up01:02
Flandrybut my app finds no SDL video device01:02
Flandryit worked ok before01:02
Firebirdugh, really freaking hard to color scheme a program when the SDK colors are all messed up :/01:02
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javispedrowell, "scratchbox" can't segfault since well, there are multiple scratchbox binaries and none of them is running when the shell is at the command prompt.01:03
Flandryanyway if someone could paste the output of sdk when starting it01:03
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pupnikflandry - for youtube-dl?  sure it is not python?01:03
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Flandryi want to see if one of the numerous warnings/errors is actually not normal01:03
lcuklpastebin them01:03
javispedrois the GUI up and you can click on the menu items and launch apps? then everything is fine.01:04
javispedro(and the apps appear, and are composited.)01:04
Flandrythe apps haven't appeared actually01:05
Flandryonly have App manager and Settings01:05
javispedroI guess you're missing "Nokia-apps" package01:05
Flandryit says it's up to date01:05
Flandrytime for a third  reinstall i guess01:06
javispedroFirebird: btw, I am trying on yet another approach for accelerated fremantle sdk: VMGL. Did you try it? I haven't managed to make it work yet (it seems to be designed with ancient xorg versions in mind)01:07
javispedroand I am having lots of weeeeeeeird issues with the X11 protocol.01:07
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Firebirdjavispedro, gave up and decided to not work with fast moving games until I get a device somewhere 2 years down the road01:08
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Flandryare the HAL-related errors supposed to be there?01:15
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Flandrythis one: mafw-gst-renderer01:16
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lcuko_O what are stopwords01:17
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lcukand why does sdk need them01:17
timeless_mbpstopwords limit indexing01:17
timeless_mbpit prevents the indexer from going nuts01:17
timeless_mbpat least, classically01:18
lcukok, the blacklist01:18
timeless_mbpone has to assume the people writing tracker aren't crazy enough to misuse that technical term01:18
timeless_mbpor is that an unsafe assumption?01:18
javispedrowell, they're using ontologies, so who knows ;)01:18
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lcukit looks liek your hal isnt being configures01:20
Flandry"Could not initialize the HAL context, no error, is hald running?"01:21
javispedroI am getting the hal errors too.01:21
Flandryya think01:21
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javispedroFlandry: well, other than reinstalling SDK, clearing /tmp folder comes to mind01:22
javispedroanother interesting thing to pastebin would be an strace of your sdl app01:23
javispedrobut I have to go now.01:23
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Flandrythe scratchbox / sdk install takes hours01:24
Flandryand hundreds of MB of downloads01:24
Flandryit's ridiculous01:24
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javispedrowell, you're downloading an operating systme.01:24
Flandryi know01:25
javispedrowell, gnite01:25
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Flandrynow i get a different error01:28
Flandrywith no changes to anything01:28
Flandry/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set01:28
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`Macei want an n900!01:29
timeless_mbpas long as you don't want it now :)01:29
Flandryit's just as well i don't have one01:29
Flandryi'd have broken it by now01:29
Flandryi seem to be able to break anything01:29
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uhsfi also want a nokia n900 since my media player was stolen yesterday01:30
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uhsfi wish it will be easily available here in canada.01:30
FlandryIs there a way to preserve the contents of scratchbox while removing and reinstalling it?01:31
Suurorcawell, if you have the same 1 year warranty with u.s., you might as well order an eu version ;p01:31
timeless_mbpFlandry: scratchbox is really two or three pieces01:32
timeless_mbpi'd hope that remove wouldn't destroy your bits01:32
qwerty12_N810Flandry: You can look at the home directory used in it, at least: /scratchbox/users/$USER/home/$USER01:32
zerojayuhsf: Rogers only just now starting carrying in the N810... and at $500.01:34
Flandryi mean the OS stuff01:34
Flandryi'm on my third time installing this and it's really getting old01:34
timeless_mbpcache the sdk server :)01:34
qwerty12_N810zerojay: I'm surprised no one has started a "Lynch Rogers" movement :)01:35
zerojayNo kidding.01:35
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anidelhey 0j, back home?01:37
qwerty12_N810Ha, I see it... I'm guessing the N900 dilemma will be "Hmm, new house or N900?"01:37
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Firebirda $650 house? where!01:37
Flandrywell i've about had it with Maemo i guess01:37
Firebirdmust be the best cardboard box on the street01:38
uhsfzerojay: why would rogers carry the n810? it's not even a phone.01:38
zerojayuhsf: Ask them. Take a look at the link I pasted to qwerty12_N810 if you don't believe me.01:38
timeless_mbpsome vendors carried the n800/n810 because they paired it w/ dsl01:38
timeless_mbpit actually kinda made sense01:38
Flandryi have what i think is a working package ready to be tested on N90001:38
zerojayFlandry: You should just grab the VM version of the SDK.01:39
Flandryi guess i'll upload it and reinstall sdk if it doesn't work01:39
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lilliput_hi all01:39
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Flandryseems silly to install an OS in an OS in an OS just to developt for a phone :D01:40
lilliput_have some of you participated to the nokia push ?01:40
zerojayFlandry: With the way you are supposedly destroying the OS, no. :)01:40
zerojayFlandry: Anyways, just make a copy of the VM. Fuck it up? Just copy the original over again. No more fucking around with long installs.01:41
Flandryit seems awfully fragile01:41
Flandryi know01:41
timeless_mbpvm's aren't very fragile01:41
timeless_mbpespecially w/ snapshotting01:41
Flandryi'm talking sdk01:41
Flandryin scratchbox01:41
Flandryvms aren't, true01:41
lilliput_Flandry, vm01:41
zerojayFlandry: I don't know how the SDK is fragile... makes me think you're doing something wrong.01:41
timeless_mbpscratchbox is basically a live os w/o root protections01:42
lilliput_Flandry, vm01:42
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timeless_mbpbut it's such a limited os that you basically *have* to poke it to add things01:42
pupnikmaemo / mer would make a great sofa tablet os01:42
zerojaypupnik: It already does.01:42
lilliput_Flandry, vms are better to devel as you don't mess around with the lib and everything else01:42
pupnikon smartq?01:42
zerojayOn N900.01:42
pupnikk, that is a phone, not a sofa tablet for me01:43
Flandryyeah yeah it just seems excessive to have that many layers of OS01:43
Flandrybut i'll do the VM01:43
zerojaypupnik: That's just a limitation in your own mind.01:43
pupniksofa tablet starts at 5" or so01:43
johnxI keep thinking about mer on e-ink devices01:43
anidelpupnik so why I'm using my n900 on the sofa now ? :P01:43
Flandryhas someone made a vbox image available zerojay?01:44
pupnik‚¬ou can read small text01:44
zerojayFlandry: Yes.01:44
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timeless_mbppersonally i use Mer to develop for Maemo01:46
timeless_mbpit usually works01:46
timeless_mbpuntil i get to stupid things like shellisms and pythonisms01:47
timeless_mbp(like the total lack of python or a proper shell, or various debian essentials)01:47
lilliput_speaking of vm is there one ready to be used for qemu ?01:48
lilliput_I have seen the one for vpc but not for qemu01:49
zerojayqemu's slooooooow.01:49
lilliput_vpc doesn't run on linux or is it ?01:50
Flandryis the vmware image compatible with virtual box?01:50
johnxa vmdk can be trivially converted to a virtualbox or qemu disk image01:51
Flandryman i break into cold sweats when someone says "trivial" ever since i took quantum mechanics01:51
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GeneralAntillesTexrat and his damn top-posting HTML mails. . . .02:12
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zashGeneralAntilles: gah02:15
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* johnx really needs mbx drivers so he can see how the free h-i-m fs keyboard works in mer 0.1702:20
* anidel like this article:
Stskeepsjohnx, didnt you get my n8x0 image with sw render?02:23
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johnxit's kind of too slow to work with02:23
johnxalso, I thought you were asleep by now :)02:24
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Stskeepsscrewed timezone02:24
johnxah. just waiting for mine to get screwed02:25
Stskeepspondering if we missed mbx driver release or something02:25
johnxwe'd see it on the linux-omap list, right?02:25
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Stskeepsnot sure02:25
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GeneralAntillesHaha, "But you have to concede Sun does have the last letter in filesystems."02:34
johnxI'm mostly excited about btrfs02:35
derfYes, but z comes after btr.02:35
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johnxdepends on your sorting algorithm, doesn't it?02:36
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solarionGeneralAntilles: clearly, if Linux doesn't get ZZZFS, it'll never get any marketshare02:45
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ccookeEvening, all02:49
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b-man17 - absolutely hilarious xD02:52
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Flandryinteresting article on file systems03:02
ccookejohnx: Evening. How's it going?03:02
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lcukFlandry, the cracked onw?03:06
lcukhi ccooke03:06
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Flandrythe blogspot one03:06
Flandrywell mostly the last bit03:06
Flandryi don't really care what apple does03:06
johnxhey ccooke03:07
johnxplayed with your script a little bit03:07
ccookeI saw03:07
johnxI think it might have some side-effects related to python gtk03:07
ccookeOh yes?03:08
ccookeI haven't tried relocating that yet03:08
ccookeI'm glad I stuck the undo in, anyway ;-)03:08
johnxif you get a chance might be good to give it a try and see if python things can still find the python gtk module after that03:08
johnxyes, the undo seems to have brought it back to working03:08
johnxnow I'm trying to figure out if appinstaller is buggy or if I relocated other python packages03:09
johnxis there a good way to just have it print relocated things?03:09
ccookels -l /opt/relocated :-)03:09
johnxah, thanks :)03:09
ccookethat'll get you the package names03:09
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johnxit really does seem like nokia is the biggest offender for not opt-ifying though03:10
ccookeThere's a lot of polish that could be added, but... I don't think it's a good idea to add it. The reason I stuck all those caveats on the post is it *could* break things...03:11
lcukisnt that because the core components were in place before opt was even a twinkle in someones eye03:11
ccookelcuk: yes03:11
lcukand retesting and validating the entire subsystem would be a massive undertaking03:11
johnxthere are some real high value targets that should be easy to test03:12
ccookeflashplayer and microb are obvious, for instance03:12
johnxlooking at themes, icons, fonts as well03:12
ccookeyeah. I've moved my themes over.03:13
lcukyeah - the big fish03:13
ccookeOf course, you don't gain back all the space the package takes up - all those symlinks end up taking some space.03:13
ccookeBut it's worth it right now.03:13
johnxmmmm...and really digging the hitech theme. I'd love a total conversion of the icons too, and a couple different color variations03:13
johnxccooke, yeah, like 4KB per file?03:14
johnxdoes a handy job on QT :)03:14
ccookejohnx: not sure. Depends on the FS.03:14
ccookeit's ubifs, right?03:14
lcukdeffo better to sym an entire folder than each file within03:14
ccookeI'm not sure how big a symlink is on that.03:14
ccookelcuk: yeah, but doing that safely is much harder. That's where optifying wins: You can make sure it's *right*.03:15
lcuki thought once you symlinked it was indistinguishable, tho thats just my limited knowledge03:15
ccookelcuk: hardlinks are indistinguishable03:16
lcukor is it things like timing problems (early packages requiring the folder before the mountpoints created03:16
ccookesymlinks are *mostly* indistinguishable03:16
ccookein a hard link, it's literally impossible to tell03:17
ccookeif you just open the file, you're fine03:18
Firebirdwhat the heck... "libboost-iostreams1.38-dev: Depends: libboost-regex1.38-dev (= 1.38.0-6maemo2) but it is not going to be installed"03:19
ccookethe usual problem with symlinks is code that does things like "loop through filenames in directory foo. Look for ones which are normal files, then do stuff" (because they want files, not directories: the test should usually be that it *isn't* whatever you don't want to process)03:19
lcukFirebird, dependency issue, check your repositories are sane03:19
Firebirdlcuk, that was from the autobuilder03:20
Firebirdarmel fails, but i386 is building03:21
johnxdu is lying to me :(03:21
lcukarghhh ccooke we are taught as developers to explicitely request what we need03:21
lcukso no nasty surprises occur03:21
johnxI don't think that symlinks take 0 blocks on ubifs03:21
johnxthough it'd be a neat trick03:21
lcukmagic trick03:21
Firebirdnow that half of the package failed, how do I re-upload it without being rejected for being an existing version...03:22
ccookejohnx: nor do I, but they do on some filesystems :-)03:22
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johnxccooke, FAT? :P03:22
ccookejohnx: yes, a bit, but I'm losing it. Slowly.03:23
* johnx plays a rimshot03:23
ccookeSorry :-)03:23
lcuklol ccooke you being converted to ntfs? :D03:23
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ccookelcuk: ah, see - I was taught to carefully state what I wanted. In this case, what I'd want is to not recurse :-)03:24
ccookelcuk: nah, umsdos.03:24
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* Stskeeps ponders mailing the ti guy 03:28
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johnx...a cake?03:28
GeneralAntillesA threat!03:28
johnxa cake with a threat written on it?03:29
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Firebirdeek, I have uncovered a dependency mess in the armel repo for fremantle relating to boost->libicu :(03:30
Firebird"libboost-regex1.38-dev: Depends: libicu-dev"..."libicu-dev: Depends: libicu42 (= 4.2.1-3maemo1) but 4.2.1-3maemo3 is to be installed"03:30
johnxI love these awesome "=" dependencies Nokia is so fond of...03:32
ccookejohnx: there's a reason for it. It's a bad one, but...03:32
johnxI remember the discussion from a year or so back03:33
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pupnikbugrep Firebird ?03:34
Firebirdpupnik, going to PM the maintainer03:34
GeneralAntillesjohnx, hopefully they eventually manage to figure that out. . . .03:35
pupnikPandora linux gaming handheld - arm A8 cortex - running Nintendo 64 emulator - mario - with opengl es 2.0 rendering - video from device lcd  >
johnxI also don't remember being very convinced by the reasoning03:35
johnxooooh, did they get the sgx working with it?03:35
GeneralAntillesjohnx, pretty much anything Nokia does that's stupid or inane can be explained by their broken process.03:35
GeneralAntillespupnik, I love the fact that we can steal all of this stuff from them.03:36
johnxGeneralAntilles, or by decisions that favor software in peoples' hands over software that is technically correct03:36
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pupnikin real world use however expect n900 to be 1/2-2/3 as fast as 850mhz pandora03:37
GeneralAntillesAh, right, overclocked.03:37
GeneralAntillesHooray, brick.03:37
derfAbsolutely no one has good process.03:37
derfIf you're relying on good process to develop good software, you're screwed.03:37
pupnika good tesm03:38
lcukGeneralAntilles, i thought different grades of chips were available for arm as for any other cpu03:38
pupnikteams load balance03:38
GeneralAntilleslcuk, er?03:38
GeneralAntilleslcuk, one of those grades isn't 850MHz. :)03:38
johnxand all are 720MHz, given proper cooling03:39
johnxmaybe not all :)03:39
johnxat least the pandora's03:39
lcukwhere did i read about 1ghz ones then03:39
pupnikthe kind of emergent dance seen on a soccerfield or real world development cant be planned in advance03:39
lcukor was i dozin03:39
johnxlcuk, they were saying they could hit 1GHz I think at some point03:40
johnxnot sure if there are any of those chips in reality03:40
* lcuk nods03:40
lcuki need to sleep rly tonight03:40
GeneralAntilleslcuk, OMAP3430 is rated for 600MHz. OMAP3530 has recently been upped to 720MHz.03:40
lcukthanks gan03:40
lcuk600mhz max03:41
pupniksleep well03:41
lcukand not all the time03:41
lcukaccording to summit03:41
pupnikwe should find any recorded microphone audio from summit talks...  that can be merged with video footage of ours03:42
pupniki have good footage of lectures (nice zoom for projected images!)03:42
pupnika couple at least03:43
lcukit would be great to have a complete timeline and allow people to upload any media/observation/notes directly into proper sequence03:43
lcukas discussed for the cocreation stuff03:43
pupnikwiki page does03:43
pupnikcan link any talk to vid03:44
lcukyeah but automagically03:44
lcuktweaks have timestamps so do photos etc03:44
lcukvideo does too, just work backwards03:44
lcuksketch notes do03:44
pupnikdidnt we see folks with real cameras? who were they?03:45
lcukthe audience03:45
lcuklol there were 300 realtime sensor devices03:45
lcukwe were like the little sensors they sent into the hurricane in twister!03:45
GAN900pupnik, apparently the people who were PAID to record everything screwed up the audio.03:46
GAN900So it was all useless.03:46
pupnikthat sucks03:46
lcukGAN900, official confirmation about this?03:46
lcukor just speculation due to lack of facts/03:46
GAN900lcuk, there's a thread on some list or other.03:47
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lcuklol GAN900 i could say theres threads on some list or other describing the landing of aliens, that doesnt make it fact.  but you have ear to ground so will let you off for now :P03:50
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pupniki know i havent seen a link to recordings besides user submitted video03:52
GAN900lcuk, yes, because I'm so inclined to make shit up.03:54
johnxif I hadn't been told right at the beginning that professionals were covering it, I probably would have had my n900 going constantly the whole time :/03:54
pupnikoo, a spot-microphone would be a great addon03:58
johnxcould do stereo with one attached to usb and on attached to line in :>03:59
pupnikwnot to mention pro dac/adc boxes03:59
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* Stskeeps wonders if mbx drivers will be behind email auth too.04:00
lcukjohnx, wouldv been cool with just super multidevice recording04:01
pupnikwell, do we have usb-audio kernel drivers?04:01
johnxshould be easy to compile as a module04:01
johnxanyways, heading off to watch TV with the wife :)04:03
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pupnikcheers johnx04:05
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luke-jrStskeeps: will be? you didn't install them yet?04:22
Stskeepsnot out yet04:23
luke-jrI have it working with KDE 4.3...04:23
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Stskeepsmbx? :P04:24
luke-jrStskeeps: N81004:25
luke-jrwhatever that is04:25
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solarionn810 is awesome04:48
GeneralAntillesN900 is better.04:50
GeneralAntillesThe keyboard is so much better it's silly.04:50
lcukof course its better GeneralAntilles, its newer and faster.  but the 810 kicks serious ass04:50
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* GeneralAntilles prefers the N800.04:51
lcukdo you still keep yours powered up>?04:52
lcukif so, what do you leave running on it?04:52
GeneralAntillesXChat, FBReader04:53
GeneralAntillesBrowser when I need it.04:53
lcuki saw a posting before someone saying they have flipclock all day at work04:54
lcuki like how these old devices havent just died - like 770 still serves useful purpose to some people04:54
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zashlcuk: nokia-made stuff from a few years ago holds forever04:57
zashlcuk: like my 331004:58
lcukisnt that the same even now04:58
lcukthe 900 is gonna be a rock solid platform04:58
pupnikdoes n900 detect opened rear lid?05:00
pupnikin other words, can i boot with it off?05:00
zashpupnik: define lid?05:00
ali1234it does detect it05:00
pupnikthe battery cover05:00
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ali1234cos of the camera slide05:00
ali1234it has two positions05:00
ali1234if it's in neither, battery case is off :)05:01
ali1234at least i assume that's how it works05:01
ali1234it definitely detects it anyway05:01
pupnikmagnets are cool05:01
ali1234actually it uses two pieces of plastic, one black, one white05:01
ali1234for the slide anyway05:02
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pupnikahh clever05:11
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pupnikso apparently neon optimization can pay off06:00
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Maceromfg hahahaha07:12
Macerholy shit what people do07:13
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tank-manI waiting till the bulldozer transforms into a giant robot07:19
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timeless_mbpanyone here have an n900 w/ mail configured?07:22
Macertank-man: hahah i was too07:22
Macerbut it didn't happen :)07:23
Macerwhat a let down07:23
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timeless_mbpanyone here familiar w/ ham?07:32
* timeless_mbp wants to know how ai_ni_updates_restart works07:32
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* tigert wonders why his N900 thinks he is in Riihimäki07:45
Xisdibikyour not tigert ?07:48
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RST38htigert: failed associating with the tower *and* establishing gps lock?08:03
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* slonopotamus yawns08:08
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* VDVsx puzzles08:14
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tigertgps thinks correct08:37
tigerti think presence got stuck with location08:38
tigertXisdibik: ?08:38
Xisdibiki was joking, asking if you really werent Riihimaki08:39
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wazdheya maemo09:59
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VDVsxhey wazd10:07
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RST38hHELO all10:44
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RST38hAnyone can point me to the TI page with OMAP3 documentation?10:44
VDVsxRST38h, google can :P10:45
* VDVsx hides10:45
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: <-- brainwashed by Google, now that he has been to Google HQ10:46
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VDVsxI meant google the search engine :)10:46
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VDVsxqwerty12_N810, I still prefer Nokia :). Google offered me lots of food and t-shirts, but I didn't get any android device :(, so Nokia still rullzzz :P10:50
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qwerty12_N810Hehe :p10:51
samadis there any API that i can detect the device is sleep mode or dead mode ?10:52
Xisdibikwould said android device be as good as the n900 anyways? ;)10:52
samadi am working with n90010:52
Xisdibikthat was for VDVsx not you samad10:52
* qwerty12_N810 is rolling out his own network:
VDVsxXisdibik, not for me, but I like to have tons of gadgets :)10:54
mgedmininline bool is_device_powered_off() { return false; }10:54
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, lol, skynet by evil qwerty :P10:54
* Xisdibik starts stockpiling guns and stuff for when they attack10:55
Xisdibikhey qwerty12_N810 not that you would know but,  Would doing an alternative ubuntu install and then selecting the ubuntu desktop be any less resource consuming / space hogging than doing a live CD install ?10:56
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qwerty12_N810Xisdibik: You're right: I don't know, sorry (Xubuntu in VMware here) :)10:57
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Xisdibikif anyone else thinks they know the answer they can pipe in ;)10:57
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mgedminXisdibik: maybe, maybe not11:01
Xisdibikwhat would you put your money on mgedmin ?11:01
mgedminmost likely you'd end up with the same set of packages11:01
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Xisdibikthats what i figured11:01
mgedminbut if you installed smaller bits instead of ubuntu-desktop, you'd end up with a smaller system11:01
mgedminthat'd mean more work11:01
mgedminbut then installing only what you need is easier than removing what you don't11:02
Xisdibikyea, unless i dont know exactly everything i need?!11:03
Xisdibikbut do know what i dont (within reason)? ;)11:03
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* VDVsx is looking forward to pass another 15 hours inside a plane :(11:05
achipa_irssianyone with alarmd install problems on scratchbox ?11:06
achipa_irssiI tried od apt-get install nokia binaries and ran into a nice permission denied in alarmd :)11:06
qwerty12_N810Tried with "fakeroot" prefixed?11:07
achipa_irssiVDVsx: long trip for a bit of food and tshirts :D11:07
VDVsxachipa_irssi, and booze ;)11:08
qwerty12_N810achipa_irssi: This is the last part of the trip: They're gonna indoctrinate him in Google Thought. When he comes back, he's gonna be an Android supporter and shun Maemo11:08
achipa_irssiI are baboon, fakeroot it is11:09
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achipa_irssiVDVsx: booze makes all the difference :D11:10
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engineerhello all11:11
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engineeranyone used nokia2630?11:11
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engineeri am having a small issue related to its themes?11:11
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engineercan anyone help?11:11
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mgedminbug: launch an app (say, xterm), see the app's picture (really just a screenshot, but you don't know that!), start typing -> contacts search pops up11:12
mgedminwhat's the right package for reporting this?11:12
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, beware, I had a advanced trolling techniques session :) if I join the dark side, I can now be a good troll asset :)11:12
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: I'll just get lcuk to kick you11:13
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, puffff11:13
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sulxanyone tried to build mythtv for frema?11:14
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VDVsxqwerty12_N810, but now I can say that our trolls are pretty 'basic', we never had advanced trolls afair :P11:15
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qwerty12_N810VDVsx: Darius doesn't fit into the category of "advanced"? :)11:16
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, nah11:16
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VDVsxqwerty12_N810, there're trolls that submit false bug reports full of fake straces, to make them appear legitimate, lolol (normally people from rivals projects)11:23
Suurorcahow mature :p11:26
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glasswell at least that would show some effort :D11:27
* VDVsx likes some 'types' of trooling ->
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Corsacmpf, now 560¤ ><11:31
wazdVDVsx: how's the BM going? :)11:31
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VDVsxwazd, waiting for my lazy designer to send me some stuff, hihihihihi11:32
wazdVDVsx: oh, you should punish him definitely :D11:33
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VDVsxwazd, I'm abroad atm, but  I'm planning to have a test version this week :)11:34
VDVsxis almost done apart from the UI :)11:35
wazdVDVsx: I'll send you all graphics today11:38
* timeless makes a little progress11:38
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VDVsxwazd, not a rush I'll only arrive at home on Tuesday and will be jet lagged , so Wednesday is the day :)11:40
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timelessarg, i hate busses11:43
timelessi just took a ride to nowhere, espoo, finland11:44
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qwerty12_N810Hiya, anidel12:01
anidelhey qwerty..12:01
anideltoday I'll be switching from BT broadband to Virgin12:02
anidel:) finally I'll get rid of the BT modem12:02
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vesaperhaps a silly question: is it possible to send a file from the filemanager via bluetooth?12:04
* SpeedEvil sighs, and ponders going on again about his broadband problems.12:04
vesai might be blind but i just couldn't figure out where there's an option to do that12:05
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SpeedEvilCan you right-click on the touchscreen?12:05
vesahmm, not that i'm aware of. maybe there's some key-combo12:05
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vesaa long click gives you a menu of options, but it doesn't have send12:07
qwerty12_N810vesa: N900?12:07
vesathe image viewer has 'share' which works, but for regular files (like say downloaded sis package that i'd like to send to my wifes phone)12:08
qwerty12_N810In that case, there's a bug open for that. Nokia, in their infinite wisdom (I mean, no one sends a file from their phone, right?) decided to remove the option from the file manager12:08
vesaok, well. i'll stop looking then =)12:08
SpeedEvilBecause clearly nokia is right, and you diddn't really want to :)12:09
anidelvesa yeah you send the file from its right application12:09
anidelsend a picture from Photos12:09
anidelsend a video from Media Player12:09
anideland so on.. not sure from where you can send a PDF tho12:09
vesayeah. there's no application for symbian packages though =)12:09
vesadownloading them is much easier on a proper browser12:09
anidelnot from PDF viewer.. weird12:10
anidelso yeah.. it's definitely a bug :)12:10
qwerty12_N810Diablo's PDF Viewer has the option... :)12:10
anidelnot on n900, just checked12:10
qwerty12_N810Yeah, same :/12:11
tekojoYes, it's a bug, please open one, if it isn't in the bugzilla yet12:11
vesamaybe the final version will have it...12:11
anidelhi Tero, didn't know you were here on IRC as well12:12
tekojoHi anidel, I mostly lurk, but I do try to hang around as much as I can12:12
anidelyeah I'm trying to do the same.. working from home today -> more time :p12:13
* Myrtti gives tekojo a cookie12:13
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anidelbug 5300 looks like it:
anidelfiled as enhancement..12:14
tekojoThanks Myrtti!12:14
samad is there any API that i can detect the device (n900)is sleep mode or dead mode ?12:15
tekojoyes #5300 it is12:15
qwerty12_N810samad: Read up on the libosso API. And, no, just so that we get it out of the way now: I will not give a step by step as to how you use it12:16
anidelvesa: would you please vote on it as well if you feel it's worth it?12:16
vesaofcourse. will do.12:17
samadqwerty12_N810: thanks12:17
anidelvesa: thanks12:17
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anidel(will 'thanks' on IRC counted for Karma? :D :D12:18
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vesaanother thing that's been bugging me is the profiles. is there really only silent/general or is there a way to add profiles?12:26
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KhertanHello everyone !12:27
RST38hmoo all12:29
RST38hheya khertan, , myrtti, qwerty12:29
RST38htekojo too12:29
qwerty12_N810vesa: AFAIK, you can add a new one to /etc/profiled/99.custom.ini, but you will have to make a program using libprofile (nokia-binaries repo) to switch to it, as the GUI wont list it12:29
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qwerty12_N810Hiya RST38h, Khertan, tekojo12:30
tekojomorning RST38h12:30
tekojoAnd everyone else :-)12:30
vesaqwerty12_N810: ah, ok. i might try it but the ui not listing the profile does cut down on how useful a new profile really is12:30
* qwerty12_N810 remembers his 3310 having more profiles =)12:31
tekojovesa really only two profiles, takes a bit of getting used to, but does work12:32
KhertanHi RST38h and qwerty12_N81012:32
vesaall i'm really missing is a profile that's only vibrate (leaving silent to not even vibrate)12:32
wazdOn december 2012 an asteroid, that was heading to the Earth appeared in the sky. And12:33
mgedminthere are checkboxes12:33
Myrttimoo RST38h12:33
Corsacqwerty12_N810: is there a bug report about that?12:33
Khertanwazd: but in december 2012 we will got a Nokia n1800 with a integrated Energy Shield12:34
qwerty12_N810Corsac: The profiles? I don't think so12:34
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Khertanwazd: so it s not a problem12:34
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Corsacqwerty12_N810: would it make sense to open a bug while I don't even had a chance to test it? I can wait for it to open the bug, but...12:35
timelessfwiw the reason why you can't share from most apps in fremantle is very funny12:36
qwerty12_N810Corsac: I don't see why not, I guess it's all about the usability factor12:36
timelessor incredibly sad, depending on how one looks at it12:36
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wazdOn december 2012 an asteroid, that was heading to the Earth appeared in the sky. And it struck the Earth right where Mayan calendar was placed. And there was dust. When the dust dispersed a new stone calendar was standing. And there was a message on it "Here's the new stone calendar till 32118 year you've asked. Thanks for using our stone calendars!"12:41
Stskeepswazd: hah12:41
Corsacmpf, I don't yet have a bugzilla account12:43
Corsacthat's weird12:43
Corsachmhm, talk and bugzilla aren't linked, are they?12:43
zerojaylinked for what?12:44
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RST38hwazd: Not 32118. 32767.12:44
timelessno signle sign on, yet, sadly12:44
RST38h(and yes, I also find it amusing that the aliens use signed shorts)12:45
wazdRST38h: damn, now I have to order new one :(12:45
* RST38h wonders if the alien MIPS goes into exception when the incremen 32767 by 112:45
SpeedEvilOf course not.12:46
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Corsaczerojay: for accoutns12:47
timelesscorsac: someday12:48
timelessit's on someone's wishlist/toplan list12:48
Corsac(so it wasn't a bad idea to create an account)12:48
timelessdo everyone a favor and make sure the accounts share an email address :)12:49
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wazdok, ordered the new one :)12:49
Corsactimeless: yes :)12:49
Corsacqwerty12_N810: Maemo Platform / Desktop Platform?12:49
qwerty12_N810Dunno, I've only filed a total of 3 bugs so I'm not the person to ask12:50
Corsacok :)12:51
zerojayCorsac: I still don't understand.12:51
timelesswhat's the bug?12:51
zerojayCorsac: Why would you need Bugzilla and Talk specifically linked?12:51
anidelqwerty that's why you didn't get a Fixed in Fremantle t-shirt :p12:51
timelesslack of send object from various apps?12:51
timelesszerojay: unified auth12:52
timelessone username, one password12:52
zerojaytimeless: Oh, if that's what he's talking about... but why just those two?12:52
timelessinstead of wiki/garage?12:52
anidelwhich bug? bluetooth sending?12:52
* timeless shrugs12:52
Suurorcawouldn't it be about time to start saying "fixed in harmattan" ;p12:52
qwerty12_N810anidel: Now I'm just gonna go and cry :(12:52
anideleheh me too12:53
timelesssuurorca: internally, we're waiting for harmattan to start fixing bugs12:53
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* anidel goes and cries12:53
Corsaczerojay: well, talk, garage, everything!12:54
RST38hwazd: When ordering it, can you put Texas as your mailing address?12:54
RST38hwazd: And I will order an extra copy to Redmond12:54
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Corsactimeless: the fact that there are only two profiles and one can't do custom ones12:54
timelessnot technically correct12:54
timelessthe backend supports it12:54
timelessand the  ui spec says to only allow two12:55
timelesspresumably it's a bug in settings, enhancement for harmattan12:55
timelessdunno what they plan for that12:55
timelessmaybe they plan to support more12:56
anideltimeless which bug is that?12:56
timelessmaybe not12:56
ccookeMorning, all12:56
anidelmorning ccooke12:56
qwerty12_N810Hiya, ccooke12:56
timelesspersonally, i'd suggest writing an applet today that manages profiles12:56
anidelah profiles12:56
timelessand ignoring the default one12:56
qwerty12_N810anidel: I want my Fixed in Harmattan T-shirt, now12:56
CorsacI didn't yet submit it so I can reclassify it :)12:57
KhertanJust a question does the icon to do selection in XTerm in Fremantle is a GTK_STOCK ? come from theme ?12:57
* anidel sends a faked Fixed in Hamrattan t-shirt to Qwerty now... along with a bug in it12:57
qwerty12_N810Khertan: Theme icon, want me to look it up?12:57
qwerty12_N810Aww, thanks anidel!12:57
wazdFixed in Harmaten12:58
Khertanqwerty12_N810: hum ... if it s a theme icon it should be available in gtk stock right ? as i can't found it in python binding ...12:58
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RST38hAnyone remembers the URL with TI documentation on OMAP3?12:59
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qwerty12_N810Khertan: You want browser_panning_mode_on.png; use the GtkIconTheme functions to get to it13:00
Khertanqwerty12_N810: yep this is for a panning_mode_on too :) thx13:00
anidelrst38h: sorry :p
liriare we gonna have a kicking ass PIM with (google) sync support when the n900 is out?13:01
RST38hanidel: thanks =)~13:02
Corsacliri: direct sync looks more interesting13:02
liriwhat is direct sync?13:03
anidelrst38h ahaha sorry it's just that I love to use it :p13:03
RST38hanidel: or, I stand corrected: no thanks, as there is no useful information in that google search13:03
RST38h(I have done it before)13:03
anideldamn.. -1 karma then13:03
anidel(for me)13:03
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anidelbtw google searches are just starting points .. however, I do not have that info.. I remember seeing it somewhere... couldn't remember where13:04
Corsacliri: like, not supplying all your data to a third party13:04
Corsacliri: and do a direct sync between your devices13:04
anidelwe should write a "let me find/file that bug for you" page13:04
SpeedEvilYou don't have to supply all your data to a third party - even if they deal with it. Encryption.13:05
CorsacSpeedEvil: do you know a sync engine which does that?13:05
CorsacRST38h: is helpful?13:06
KhertanDoes Nokia plan to do sync with google agenda for there calendar on Fremantle ?13:06
RST38hCorsac: This is it! Thanks =)13:06
* Corsac karma++13:07
timeless_mbpKhertan: nokia -- plan ?13:07
SpeedEvilCorsac: firefox weave - but that's not quite the same13:07
SpeedEvilOr do I mean wave13:07
Khertanyep ... just to know if i lost some time to make a apply which do the sync ... or not13:07
* SpeedEvil gets confused easily.13:07
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CorsacSpeedEvil: as I get it, for the sync to work correctly, both party need to know the content13:08
SpeedEvilyeah - weave13:08
SpeedEvilCorsac: Sure. But not the server13:08
SpeedEvilCorsac: only the end parties13:08
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SpeedEvilthat is - the synchronising devices13:09
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Corsacbut you sync with the server, don't you?13:09
Corsacatm, at least13:09
SpeedEvilImagine - for the sake of argument - implementing it with an encrypted filesystem stored on the server13:09
pancake_how can I get hildon working on a desktop?13:09
anidelspeedevil: weave encrypts the data? I thought it does only for sending it... does they store it encrypted? not sure.. they need to search out of it to make money13:09
pancake_the source from git doesnt builds13:09
zashis it correct that maemo uses evolution-data-server as backend for stuff? Does that mean one can sync by just rsyncing ~/.evolution ?13:09
SpeedEvilyou mount the filesystem with your local key, and never send the key to the server.13:09
SpeedEvilanidel: firefox, not google13:09
ccookezash: Not safely, I'd expect.13:09
anidelspeedevil: TCFS :D was doing that :p13:09
CorsacSpeedEvil: yes but I'm not sure any engine does that atm13:10
anidelspeedevil: yeah.. I mean firefox's encrypting the data on the channel.. but google is not storing it encrypted13:10
zashif not, how's syncing with evo otherwise?13:10
SpeedEvilanidel: nothing to do with google13:10
SpeedEvilanidel: google weave is seperate to firefox wave13:10
SpeedEvilanidel: err firefox wave and google weave13:10
* SpeedEvil sighs13:10
zashfirefox wave?13:11
anideli'm confused :)13:11
SpeedEvilfirefox weave and google wave have nothing to do with each other.13:11
anidelfirefox weave and google wave13:11
anidelso you confused me as well.. i meant13:11
anidelfirefox wave encrypts data on the channel13:11
anidelbut does firefox store it encrypted?13:11
SpeedEvilfirefox weave syncs all your browser details - history, bookmarks, .... - over multiple devices with the synchronising server not knowing the data - if it's encrypted13:11
SpeedEvilI think the default is to do encryption. It's not stored locally encrypted13:12
anidelcorsac : thanks I know it and using it :) was confused with google weave.. /me hits speedevil :p13:12
zashanidel: "cloud" based?13:12
zashanyone tried fennec on n*13:13
anidelFirefox wave uses cloud yeah.. that means the data is stored on some server13:13
zashanidel: what if i want to use my own server?13:13
anidelno idea..  I don't know if Wave lets you do that13:13
anidelI think so..13:13
SpeedEvilFirefox weave - you can have your own server - or use theirs.13:13
SpeedEviland the data is by default (I think - it may be an option) encrypted13:14
CorsacI tried fennec on the touchbook and it just sucks13:14
anidelspeedevil: uhm... yeah they should13:14
SpeedEvilWell - you can compile your own server, and host it somewhere if it worries you.13:15
JaffaMorning, all13:15
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Jaffacrashanddie: pong13:15
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qwerty12_N810Morning, Jaffa13:15
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Shapeshiftermhh. If the palm pre has a facebook app, will it be called "facepalm"?13:16
ccookeIt will now.13:16
zashShapeshifter: lol13:16
anidelmorning Jaffa13:16
CorsacSpeedEvil: that's the purpose of funambol servers etc.13:17
CorsacSpeedEvil: but doing that is just awful (it involves tomcat etc.)13:17
Khertanthere is no binding for nokia calendar in python ?13:17
zashCorsac: ff weave server needs tomcat?13:18
SpeedEvilff weave is only ff13:18
SpeedEvilit doesn't synchronise your email or anytehing else. Just FF13:18
Corsaczash: no, funambol server is a syncML server13:19
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JaffaKhertan: python-evolution is in extras-testing. But I don't think I packaged it with ecal turned on due to a compile problem in the earlier SDK release13:21
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KhertanJaffa: :( sniff13:22
KhertanJaffa: so i ll wait :)13:22
JaffaKhertan: Recipe is in MUD, sopatches welcome ;-)13:22
Khertanhéhé :)13:22
* Jaffa isn't at an SDK machine until Friday, so a perfect chance to get started with MUD ;-)13:22
Jaffa[for you]13:22
* Khertan didn't have any scratchbox running ;)13:23
* Khertan didn't hope to compile anything onboard on a n900 :)13:23
mgedminmy bug is already filed, good thing I did a search:
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timeless_mbphello world13:25
ccookemgedmin: although it might be filed against the wrong package. Isn't the problem with the terminal, not contacts?13:25
timeless_mbpcould someone please sacrifice 5-10 mins of their life for me?13:25
timeless_mbppayment is that you could decide to file this bug instead of me13:25
mgedmindefinitely not terminal, ccooke13:25
mgedminit's the "show fake screenshot on app launch until app comes up" thing falling through13:25
timeless_mbpmgedmin: oh wow, bug 5745 happens to be incredibly annoying13:25
timeless_mbpi hit it an awful lot w/ xterm13:26
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mgedminhave you ever tried, e.g. launching app manager and tapping on one of the icons immediately?13:26
zerojayandre__: The data counters being reset when the phone gets super busy has not been fixed after all. trying to watch ustream (which doesn't work, but keeps the phone busy for long periods of time) killed it for me twice this weekend.13:26
mgedminthe app manager screen disappears and you end up looking at the task switcher13:26
timeless_mbpi've had desktop batch events for 10+ mins13:26
mgedminthen the app manager really starts up13:26
timeless_mbpand then later it dispatches them13:26
timeless_mbpmgedmin: yeah, i've hit that13:26
mgedminnow if instead of tapping you start typing, you get bug 574513:26
andre__zerojay, feel free to comment on the bug report and mention the version that you use13:27
timeless_mbpso... who wants a free bug?13:27
andre__zerojay, i don't have all numbers in my head :)13:27
timeless_mbpit only costs 10 mins to file13:27
zerojayandre__: I don't think it was a bug that was made public.13:27
timeless_mbp(And a certain amount of sanity)13:27
andre__ah, okay13:27
andre__let me see13:27
zerojaytimeless_mbp: I'll bite, maybe.13:27
timeless_mbpzerojay: step one: mute your n900 -- this is for your sanity13:28
timeless_mbpstep two: open "Get started" (preferably in en-GB or official en-US -- we don't want to confuse people by using my strings)13:28
andre__zerojay, feel free to drop me an email with exact info (version, steps to reproduce if possible)13:28
timeless_mbpstep three: you have to wait a while...13:28
zerojayandre__: Will do.13:28
timeless_mbpat a certain point there will be a message at the bottom "Check status"13:28
timeless_mbpshortly thereafter they'll tap on the status area13:28
timeless_mbpget a screen shot of the resulting slide down thing13:29
timeless_mbpread the date listed in the clock13:29
timeless_mbpthen get a working calendar13:29
crashanddieJaffa, could you email me your presentation material?13:29
timeless_mbpat this point, you can (and probably should) kill Get started13:29
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zerojaylol... wtf...13:30
mgedminanybody else amused at how the official manual has the browser fullscreen button icon flipped horizontally?13:30
* mgedmin out lunch13:30
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zerojayswitching from your strings to the default ones has replaced my clock with "xt:26 years ago am"13:30
timeless_mbpmgedmin: picture/url? :)13:30
timeless_mbpzerojay: you need to reboot sadly13:31
timeless_mbpthe system isn't very good about dealing w/ files13:31
zerojayThat's hilarious.13:31
timeless_mbpi think it basically caches pointers to file offsets13:31
timeless_mbpand assumes that they'd be valid13:31
timeless_mbpexcept for our broken file system something about that assumption doesn't hold13:31
timeless_mbpi haven't had enough time to figure out precisely what13:31
timeless_mbpyou can also crash half a dozen apps in gettext when switching locale files13:32
anidelmgedmin the official n900 ad videos usually sport a different ui allover the place13:32
zerojaySounds like the kind of stuff fan translators of ROMs run into all the time.13:32
anidelmgedmin like the share button in a video appearing on top of the video and not on the toolbar like ti does now.. also videos continue to play reduced in size when you task switch and that doesn't happen13:32
zerojayanidel: That's what happens when your UI's changing up until the last minute while marketing's gotta get stuff done earlier.13:33
anidelzerojay: yep..13:33
zerojayHappens in games all the time.13:33
Khertananidel: try with mplayer the video continue playing while you are in the task manager13:33
zerojayJapanese screenshots on the back of the box, for example.13:33
anidelI know, it makes perfectly sense...13:34
timeless_mbpzerojay: anyway, lemme know when you've rebooted and gotten the picture :)13:34
zerojaytimeless_mbp: Getting there.13:34
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anidelkhertan: reduced to a thumbnail size as well?13:34
zerojayWhat's the shortcut for taking a screenshot again?13:34
anidelkhertan: wow effect.. but does it stop playing when actually switching to another app? a video makes sense to be stopped13:35
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samadis there any API that i can detect the device (n900)is sleep mode or dead mode ? plz the library name ??13:35
Khertananidel: nope :)13:35
anidelkhertan: thumbs down in Extras Testing :p13:35
Khertanthumbs down only if it s a blocking things13:36
Khertannot for such minor conception13:36
anidelconsuming battery when not in foreground is :D13:36
Khertanand personnaly i prefere that it keep playing in background for listening music on video clips13:36
anidelkhertan: ehehe sorry was just teasing... :)13:37
* Khertan didn't like this extras-testing validation process ... but did'nt have better proposition13:38
Khertani think it ll make developper unhappy ...13:38
zerojayI love that someone thumbed down adblock plus saying it's not optified when it is... he realizes his mistake but does nothing to correct it. Heh. Thanks buddy.13:39
Khertan^^ example 113:39
jeremiahWell, having a high quality QA system is really important for users13:39
jeremiahAnd while our current system might not be optimal, it is pretty good13:40
jeremiahIt is open and takes input from the community.13:40
Khertanjeremiah: having happy developper is also important13:40
crashanddielol, anyone checked out xkcd today? (
Khertanjeremiah: yep ... i didn't found any better idea ...13:40
qwerty12_N810mikkov_: I still maintain that osso_hw_set_display_event_cb() works, especially as I'm using it in my own applet :p13:40
jeremiahWe definitely need to have happy developers.13:40
jeremiahThat is a fact.13:40
Khertanjeremiah: i don't like the current process, but i think it s the best compromise13:40
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jeremiahGlad to hear your feedback about it, I think a few people feel the way you do.13:41
Khertanyep ...13:41
jeremiahHopefully it will get better13:41
crashanddiesamad, define sleep or dead mode13:41
jeremiahI will work to make it better anyway! :)13:41
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Khertanjeremiah: :)13:41
anidelxournal is not optified.. but for a reason, optfying it didn't work on my package.. didn't link the actual 'resource' files (only the executable)..13:42
wazd> Please notice we cannot ship to Russia due to security restrictions by Nokia.13:42
anidelif someone thumbs it down.. there's a problem:)13:42
wazdOk, that's enough13:42
crashanddieKhertan, d'un cote, j'ai 4 documents de 20 pages a ecrire, j'ai 2 conf call cet aprem, et je viens de recevoir une prime et une augmentation "pour ma qualite et force de travail phenomenale"13:42
qwerty12_N810wazd: Treat it as an excuse to visit your bordering country, Finland :)13:42
zerojaytimeless_mbp: Got the pic.13:42
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wazdI'm feeling like a fucking terrorist sitting in a mountains and ordering n90013:43
wazdscrew it13:43
Khertancrashanddie: héhé ... félicitation ... la prochaine fois tu en aura le double :)13:43
zerojaycrashanddie: Wow... toujours si occupe que ca?13:43
crashanddieKhertan, d'un autre cote, je suis a la maison, demain j'me casse aux states pendant 2 semaines, et j'ai plus que 12 courses a faire avant de finir burnout13:43
Khertancrashanddie: de travail :)13:43
Stskeepswazd, scary13:43
Khertancrashanddie: burnout ? ca se fini vite fais comme jeu ca13:43
crashanddiezerojay, fuck, I wasn't expecting someone else to read french13:44
wazdStskeeps: that's not even reply to me, that's Vlad's13:44
zerojaycrashanddie: lol.13:44
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zerojaycrashanddie: I'm in Quebec, so.. heh.13:44
zerojayOnly for one more week.13:44
crashanddieso you learnt the language just for a week?13:44
wazdStskeeps: I'm not cool enough for a reply from forum nokia13:44
Stskeepswazd: russia is obviously a terrorist country with nuclear weapons.13:44
zerojaycrashanddie: No, I've lived in Quebec most of my life, but didn't really learn french too well until this recent stint of 4 years here.13:45
RST38hwazd: Vlad is in .BY why would he ship to .RU?13:45
crashanddieRST38h, because you don't ship to TLDs, only postal addresses13:45
Stskeepswazd, qgil did say he would look into the russian issue13:45
wazdRST38h: dunno13:46
crashanddieStskeeps, that sounds so wrong and so right at the same time13:46
wazdStskeeps: I don't care anymore in fact13:46
crashanddie"The Russian Issue", could be a good movie from the 70s13:46
Stskeepswazd: mm13:46
anidelwazd: you could have it shipped to someone and then shipped to you?13:46
wazdanidel: I won't order one13:46
KhertanBye ... going to eat something ...13:47
crashanddieKhertan, bon app13:47
anidelkhertan enjoy your food13:47
zerojay60 Minutes presents... The Russian Issue.13:47
anidelwazd: you wouldn't because of this issue?13:48
samadcrashanddie, i mean when device idle state (standby mode)13:48
timeless_mbpzerojay: have you found the bug?13:48
timeless_mbpfiling? :)13:49
* timeless_mbp can't figure out how they managed to fail to use a calendar13:49
zerojaytimeless_mbp: Yeah, though I'm just not sure that would be fixed.13:49
zerojay"Artist is a dumbass."13:49
timeless_mbpnot artist13:49
timeless_mbpit's a string13:49
timeless_mbpi can tell you where it is too :)13:49
timeless_mbpapt-get install gettext13:49
zerojayOh, so it's not just simply .pngs being pushed around then13:49
timeless_mbpmsgunfmt /usr/share/locales/en_US/LC_MESSAGES/osso-tutorial.mo13:50
timeless_mbpit's actually vaguely cool13:50
timeless_mbps/Artist/String writer/13:51
RST38hwazd: that is really a regular problem, not something to get upset over13:51
timeless_mbpanyway, file a bug, indicate it's a string error, attach the picture13:51
RST38hCan't bring anything in, can't send anything out13:51
timeless_mbpperhaps explain to someone how to use a calendar  ... ? :)13:52
SpeedEvilJust ask Julian.13:53
zerojayI'll be extra assholish and add a screenshot from the calendar app and play that old Sesame Street song.. "one of these things is not like the other..."13:53
timeless_mbpwfm :)13:53
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Jaffacrashanddie: The video?13:54
infobotJaffa meant: crashanddie: The screencast?13:55
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zerojaytimeless_mbp: wfm?13:55
timeless_mbpworksforme :)13:55
* timeless_mbp hunts food13:55
zashkill it and grill it!13:55
crashanddieJaffa, you have a screencast?13:56
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zashtimeless_mbp: Save the Planet, Eat Your Dog -- slashdot13:56
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wazdRST38h: I'm fine, don't need n900 anyway14:04
anidelwazd: you need it when you start using it ;)14:04
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SpeedEvilIIRC from openmoko that getting approval for a phone in russia was annoying14:05
SpeedEvilmaybe that's part of the issue.14:05
SpeedEvil(I know, not ...)14:05
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anidelhow did you notice that ?14:09
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Jaffacrashanddie: Which presentation material do you want? ;-)14:09
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crashanddieJaffa, just stuff to present Maemo (if you have anything that present the history, the OS, the community, the relationship with Nokia, future plans)14:10
zerojayanidel: Timeless noticed it. I just reported it for him.14:11
zerojayanidel: But after years of working QA, you learn how to look for things that could be wrong.14:11
kurtanhmm.. "According to Swedish nokia and a reseller ( will the n900 be delayed to the end of 09 in sweden, seems like something is very wrong"14:12
anidel0j: indeed14:12
kurtanreally? :(14:12
anidelkurtan? where?14:12
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Stskeepskurtan: for 3 sweden to fix it with a sw update14:13
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kurtanen swedish:
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anidelI don't think a reseller and even swedish nokia know the final delivery date...14:13
kurtanStskeeps: mkay, so 3 has problems so noone gets it ?14:14
timelessfirst rule of hunting bugs: read the strings14:14
Stskeepskurtan: noclue14:14
kurtanneither do I, but, come on.. yesterday they had v44 as date on :|14:14
SpeedEviland yes - it's not implausibel that it'd be wrong14:14
timelesssecond rule: assume the authors can't string together words consistently14:14
crashanddiezerojay, there's quebec city's weather for ya:
zerojaycrashanddie: lol14:15
zerojaycrashanddie: I just got back from visiting Halifax. It went from -2 and torrential downpours to sunny and 20 in 4 hours.14:15
crashanddiegood thing they didn't try scotland, that would probably have replied "42"14:15
crashanddiezerojay, dude, that's just your average london summer day14:16
Jaffacrashanddie: Ah, OK14:16
anidelzerojay: halifax is in nova scotia , right?14:16
zerojayThat's pretty fucked.14:16
zerojayanidel: Yep, I was over there apartment hunting.14:16
crashanddielondon is the only place on earth where the weather's mood can actually compete with the randomness of a woman's mind!14:16
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anidelzerojay: cool, been there once (in nova scotia) driving around in sept '03 or '0414:17
anidelcrashanddie: go live in Baltimore and say it again14:17
zerojayBaltimore's terrible.14:17
anidelI know.. been there 3 years14:17
zerojayI was on the bus waiting for it to take off when I saw two muggings outside my window in 5 minutes.14:17
crashanddieanidel, is there any place you haven't been?14:18
anidelcrashanddie yes, Hell :)14:18
RST38hDon't go to Baltimore on the bus and you will be ok =)14:18
crashanddieand you didn't help?14:18
derfSo, it was a quiet day?14:18
anidelzerojay: 2? when and where? I was at the Johns Hopkins14:18
anidelthe campus in charles street, not the medical one14:18
crashanddieRST38h, thing is, when riding the bus, you can't get carjacked14:18
zerojaycrashanddie: By the time I was off the bus to help, it was already over.. and then when I sat back down the second one happened. lol14:18
* RST38h often wandered around Johns Hopkins14:18
zerojayanidel: I can't tell you. I was there visiting a friend in Glen Burnie at the time.14:19
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zerojayanidel: This was... 2005.14:19
anidelglen burnie... names that reminds me of the time spent in balto14:19
RST38hcrash: I have never been carjacked in Baltimore, although the possibility of that crossed my mind more than once =)14:19
anidel2005 is when I left :)14:19
crashanddieJohns Hopkins? Is that a metaphor for St Anthony?14:19
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anideli was there 2001-200414:19
timelessit's a prestegious medical college14:19
anideltimeless: not only that :)14:20
crashanddietimeless, not that good on spelling though, are they?14:20
anideltimeless when I was there it was a prestigious CS dept as well :P ahah well they started the Security Institute14:20
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timelessanidel: i went to umcp14:20
zerojayThe airport in Glen Burnie's so close to the road that you practically can touch the landing gear of arriving planes from your car's sunroof.14:20
timelesswe didn't care much about johns hopkins beyond med/math14:20
timelessiirc their math program was tops14:21
RST38hIs Glen Burnie a town? =)14:21
zerojayRST38h: Suburb of Baltimore.14:21
timelessoh and CTY14:21
* RST38h remembers Glen Burnie as a spot on the map14:21
crashanddieGlen Burnie sounds like the sheriff's dog in some town in Nebraska14:21
RST38hNot different from the surroundings really14:21
anidelI think they openened some mall around there...14:21
timelessthat was more important really14:21
Jaffacrashanddie: Sent14:21
crashanddieJaffa, ta14:21
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timelessdid you guys help w/ CTY?14:22
RST38hLast time I checked it was still a no-place covered with McDonaldses and malls14:22
crashanddieJaffa, appreciate it, I saw the presentation, thanks14:22
anidelrst38h indeed14:22
RST38hCan't even get robbed there, I guess14:22
timelessoh, zerojay: can it's pm where you are, right?14:23
timelessLook at the clock in the status area14:23
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zerojaytimeless: Wha?14:23
timelessdoes the third leg of the m look broken?14:23
timelessmaybe too cramped?14:23
zerojayIn that screenshot? Or on the phone?14:23
zerojayYeah, the right side of m is short by one pixel.14:24
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timelessplease file a bug :)14:24
zerojaySame issue as that other font bug I filed... can't remember it though, but it was WNF'd.14:24
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timelesswe should collect each of them anyway14:25
timelessjust to have a record of annoyances14:25
zerojayHappen to remember offhand what the other problem in the font was?14:25
hrwuf. nokia replied to n900 discount reply14:25
timelessscrewing up am/pm is pretty stupid14:25
timeless~n comes to mind14:26
zerojayThat's the one.14:26
anidelhrw: replied to you?14:26
hrwanidel: replied14:26
timelessdifferent side of the letter though :)14:26
zerojayYeah, that one was the far right side.14:27
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zerojayYeah, the real issue here is that the space between the middle and right legs of the m is only two pixels wide instead of three like the other side.14:28
zerojayAlso, no anti-aliasing on it for some reason.14:28
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zerojaytimeless: That is what you're talking about, right?14:29
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zerojayI'm sure someone in .fi is going to see this bug and yell out "wtf?!"14:31
zerojay"These people are crazy seeing 1 missing pixel on a screen that dense!"14:32
zerojayYou know... if Finns had emotions.14:32
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* zerojay ponders the existence of emos in Finland.14:33
hrwThank you, now we can find your account and have enabled you the N900.14:34
hrwWe will email you once the device is available in the service and you can then fill in the order request.14:34
anidelbut this missing pixel is on the swf or on the PM in the clock?14:34
anidelwould that mean all the M miss it? or is just a particular combination of the position of the PM?14:34
anidelhrw :) cool14:34
zerojayanidel: The pm in the clock.14:36
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zerojayam too.14:36
anidelI use 24hr.. let me see14:36
zerojayI remember once filing a bug on one of our cell phone games because one pixel was always blue. Turns out it was just a problem with the screen. lol14:37
anidelthe clock in the toolbar14:37
anideli can see the third leg closer to the middle one.. can't seem to notice the missing pixel.. I should take a screenshot and zoom14:38
RST38hJust use 24-hour mode14:39
anideluhm.. the eight seems fine14:39
zerojayanidel: The area between the second and third legs uses two pixels instead of three.14:39
anidel0j: yep noticed that..14:40
zerojayWhen I post the bug,  you'll see.14:40
anidelthat's the missing pixel, ok14:40
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anidelit seems to happen only in the toolbar14:41
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anidelif you go to alarm clock, the am pm there use the same font and size (looks like) and am is fine14:42
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anideland pm is showing the three pixel distance between all the legs...14:42
anidelweird it happens only there.14:42
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RST38hFix it in Harmattan!14:43
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zerojayRST38h: I was already told it won't be.14:44
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RST38hzerojay: Fully expected14:45
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zerojayRST38h: Something about where the font comes from or something.14:46
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timeless_mbpzerojay: thanks14:47
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_berto_geocities is dead -> :D14:48
timeless_mbpRST38h: i spoke to someone14:48
mikkov__qwerty12: interesting, it didn't work before :) Anyway you don't need to use osso_hw_set_display_event_cb() anymore, because now is-on-current-desktop property changes also when screen blanks14:48
timeless_mbpit sounds like the fix for font bugs is to disown nokia14:48
timeless_mbpi've been in favor of that for year14:48
timeless_mbpsadly, i don't think that'll happen14:48
fiferboyX-Fade: ping?14:49
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X-Fadefiferboy: here14:49
fiferboyX-Fade: I have a new package in extras-testing, but it doesn't show up in the QA package page...14:50
* anidel decides it's time for lunch14:50
X-Fadefiferboy: How long ago did you promote it?14:50
fiferboyInitially, on Thursday or Friday14:51
X-Fadefiferboy: Hmm should not take more than 1 hour.14:51
X-Fadefiferboy: which package?14:51
fiferboyX-Fade: That's what I thought.14:51
fiferboyX-Fade: personal-photo-frame14:52
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X-Fadefiferboy: That one?14:52
GeceBekcisiwow, way crowded than I thought..14:53
RST38hfiferboy: Any chances for a huge shaped alcohol thermometer showing the OMAP temperature? ;)14:53
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fiferboyX-Fade: Yes, it shows up there.  But not here:
fiferboyRST38h: :D14:53
fiferboyRST38h: I'll put it in the queue14:54
kkitodo you know if it is possible to run opengl-es2 apps in scratchbox (X86 or ARMEL) ?14:54
X-Fadefiferboy: It seems the package doesn't have a section..14:54
X-Fadefiferboy: but that should not hide it.14:54
X-Fadefiferboy: Will try to find out what happened.14:54
fiferboyX-Fade: I was just going to check the packaging on it14:54
zerojayfiferboy: Oops, sorry.14:56
fiferboyzerojay: ?14:56
* zerojay plugs the builder machine back in.14:56
RST38hfiferboy: (and a brass manometer for the CPU load =)]14:56
fiferboyRST38h: I'm not even sure what a manometer is...14:57
RST38hfiferboy: pressure gauge14:57
fiferboyRST38h: Ah14:57
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zerojaythought it might be a boner meter.14:58
fiferboyX-Fade: In my control file it has "Section: user/desktop"14:58
RST38hfiferboy: I guess it a way14:58
X-Fadefiferboy: Ok, will check that too.14:59
fiferboyX-Fade: It is in the "Source" portion, not the "Package" - is that correct?14:59
X-Fadefiferboy: Source portion is where it should be.15:01
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X-Fadefiferboy: Most packages have section right after source line.15:03
fiferboyX-Fade: I can change that, but it is like that in my three other packages too15:03
X-Fadefiferboy: yeah, should not matter.15:03
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qwerty12_N810mikkov_: Ah, awesome, thanks :)15:35
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saltsa_how long the battery powers the n900 without charging?15:37
Mekuntil it is empty15:40
ccookesaltsa_: Depends on usage. Although it seems pretty okay right this minute. Mine's been running on battery since about 8am (5h40m ago) with light use (maybe 30 minutes of that time). The battery is only a sliver below full.15:41
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lbton the pre-production one I have I've been listening to music for a couple of hours+, made 3 shortish calls, made a few notes, checked tasks.... about 90% full since going off charge 6hrs ago15:43
mgedminI used my n900 as a wireless acccess point sharing its 3g connection15:43
mgedminbattery went from full to zero in about two hours15:43
ccookemgedmin: That figures :-)15:44
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lbtheh, good point.. I'm not "connected"15:44
ccookeRunning multiple radios is going to eat battery15:44
X-Fademgedmin: That sounds very low.15:44
mgedminthat's what I thought too15:45
X-FadeAlthough I guess your wifi doesn't do PSM then.15:45
sulx3g and wlan at full throttle...takes quite power15:45
mgedminad-hoc wifi == no PSM possible15:45
ccookethat'll do it.15:45
saltsa_ccooke, okey, I heard that it can only manage about two hours or something when used actively...15:45
ccookein that case, two hours is about right.15:46
ccookesaltsa_: depends on your definition of active.15:46
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kkitodo you know if  is it possible to run opengl-es2 apps in scratchbox (X86 or ARMEL) ?15:46
ccookeyes, I'm certain there *are* things that'll drain you in two hours - mgedmin's just demonstrated one. But that is a pretty extreme thing to do, and was without power saving.15:47
lardmanhmm, am getting segfault in Gstreamer xvimagesink code15:47
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ccookebut I've been getting around 20-24 hours of moderate to light use the last week or so.15:47
X-FadeI charge once a day, manages to last whole day without problems.15:49
lardmananyone know if the data I get passed in a buffer probe callback is the actual data, or if it's a copy?15:49
ccookeand it's certainly lasted the one day last week when I only charged it overnight, and didnt' go to bed for 21 hours.15:50
X-FadeBut whenever I get a device, the first week it doesn't manage to reach the end of the day ;)15:50
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X-FadeJust because you play with it a lot more.15:51
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saltsa_okey, how long it will stay online when it's in standby/idling in gsm/umts network15:52
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X-Fadesaltsa_: days15:52
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saltsa_or what's the talk time on gsm or umts network? iPohne had some 10h in gsm and 5h in umts15:52
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X-Fadesaltsa_: check, it is all there.15:53
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Milo-tekojo hello15:55
tekojohello Milo-15:56
Milo-I'm one of the students you discussed two weeks ago in Metropolia University15:56
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Milo-at least one of the qt applications I had written before compiled nicely on maemo5-sdk :)15:58
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Milo-nokia has hidden the release date of n900 very carefully from the public, rumour was that it would be out this week16:00
Milo-hopefully it's true :D16:00
mgedminlast news from nokia said "november"16:00
Milo-Last news I saw was 'week 44', but that was two weeks ago16:01
* timeless_mbp frowns16:01
tekojoMilo- good to hear, but you know we don't talk of dates :-)16:01
Milo-unfortunatelly yes :P16:01
Milo-it's always with software projects16:01
timeless_mbpso... i need someone who's willing to poke some perl for a bit16:02
Milo-tekojo I liked the tone of your voice when you said "emacs", are you a Vim user?16:03
Shapeshifterman... the keyboard on the n900 looks incredibly small16:03
tekojoboth :-)16:03
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Shapeshifterthe whole device looks small. Or this guy has a huge hand
Milo-Shapeshifter the whole device is small16:04
Milo-it's the size of e7116:04
Shapeshifter rather16:04
Milo-that hand looks rather weird.16:05
timeless_mbpShapeshifter: i'd say that his pinky is on the wide side of things16:05
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timeless_mbpbut otherwise, it's fairly close16:06
timeless_mbpmgedmin: a coworker was just reviewing photoshop disasters16:06
pupnikreading smartphone forums - another planet16:06
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ShapeshifterI sure hope I can even use the keyboard...16:06
Milo-that guy is missing three fingers.16:06
Flandryquestion about uploading to extras:16:06
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Flandrywhich .changes file do i use--armel or x86?16:06
* X-Fade is all ears ;)16:06
Milo-but placing my e71 like that on my hand creates roughly the same picture.16:06
mgedminFlandry: both, but especially armel16:07
X-FadeFlandry: The source one.16:07
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mgedminFlandry: don't listen to me16:07
Milo-oh btw, is the kernel of maemo5 32 or 64bit?16:07
X-FadeFlandry: You don't upload binaries, you upload source packages.16:07
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Flandrythe source one...16:07
Flandryyeah i'm on that wiki page16:08
X-FadeFlandry: Check the Debian tooling part.16:08
X-FadeFlandry: Basically `dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S -i16:09
Flandryi take it the defaults of dpkg-buildpackage aren't going to work16:09
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Flandryand i blew away the sdk and scratchbox because it was fubor16:09
X-FadeFlandry: No, that builds the binary package.16:09
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Milo- uhh, a nokia coffee-stirrer.16:10
Stskeepsnokia candies are good too16:10
X-Fadefiferboy: Found the missing section bug, fixed it locally.16:10
Flandryshoot i need to cancel the autobuild request16:11
fiferboyX-Fade: :)  So it wasn't me?  (or was it?)16:11
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X-Fadefiferboy: no, it was me.16:11
X-Fadefiferboy: Algo was to dumb ;)16:11
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X-FadeFlandry: It will fail pretty quickly, if you did something wrong.16:12
X-FadeFlandry: Don't worry.16:12
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fiferboyIs there any documentation on using tracker?16:21
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fiferboyThe API docs leave a lot to be explained16:21
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X-Fadefiferboy: Your app now shows in the QA queue.16:23
fiferboyX-Fade: Thank you very much!16:24
X-Fadefiferboy: QA queue filters on user/* section apps, guess what happened when yours was empty ;)16:24
fiferboyNow to figure out why the icon doesn't show.  You said that was a separate process, right?16:24
fiferboyX-Fade: Do you know why mine was showing empty?  It is in the control file...16:24
X-FadeYeah, takes a while after my import.16:24
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X-Fadefiferboy: Yeah, I had a logic bug in there. Order of items was different.16:25
fiferboyX-Fade: Thanks for fixing that up.  Sorry to make more work for you!16:25
X-Fadefiferboy: No problem, I guess this fixed something for other apps too.16:26
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riddleboxdoes anyone use maemo-mapper?16:26
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riddleboxfatal^, I have saved a track(as txt) and it will not upload, I have done this before and it worked16:31
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anidelif someone votes thumbs up for your application, but leave a comment with a good suggestion on how to fix a non show-stopper issue.. what would you do? wait for the app to get released to Extras and then push an update? or push an update now losing all the thumbs up?16:33
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RST38hanidel: I would push an updates. At the moment, I have given up on trying to get my apps into Extras16:33
anidelactually.. if my app is in Extras and I release an update.. will the update go straight to extras, or will it go thru all the testing process again?16:33
infobotRST38h meant: anidel: I would push an update. At the moment, I have given up on trying to get my apps into Extras16:34
RST38hanidel: No, it will have to stay in Testing and collect 10 votes again16:34
X-Fadeanidel: Will go through testing again.16:34
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anidelokay so it's better to push the update now16:34
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anidelunless one really wants to push his app to extras now :)16:34
timeless_mbpmgedmin: so, sorry for asking you to spend so much effort on that16:35
RST38hanidel: I would say not "better", but irrelevant16:35
mgedmindid I miss something?16:35
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mgedmintimeless_mbp: this is coming a bit out of the blue for me now, context, please?16:35
anidelrst38h not really.. pushing the update means people would have to retest it again.. and in this case is just a hildon banner appearing .. nothing new16:35
anidelmarius, it depends what you're talking about :)16:36
RST38hanidel: No, what I mean is that having an app in Fremantle Extras is irrelevant16:36
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mgedminI'm talking about "<timeless_mbp> mgedmin: so, sorry for asking you to spend so much effort on that"16:36
timeless_mbpremember the pl=> py conversion16:36
RST38hanidel: It is almost empty, all the apps are in Extras-Testing16:36
timeless_mbpi got my script happy enough using pl16:36
mgedmindecided to stick with perl?16:36
timeless_mbpand given the fact that pulling in python would be expensive16:37
mgedminmeans I won't have to maintain the py version :-)16:37
RST38hanidel: And Extras is more like an official Nokia showcase, empty and gathering dust16:37
anidelrst38h so it'd be one of the first :P I don't care , but there may be who cares...16:37
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RST38hanidel: What is your app?16:37
anidelrst38h: Xournal16:37
anidelused to take notes on the tablets even on PDFs16:38
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RST38hanidel: You have exactly 1 vote for Xournal. And that vote is mine :)16:38
anidelno, there were three few minutes ago :)16:39
RST38hanidel: So, I would screw it and upload a new package :)16:39
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anidelmarat, andre and mattia16:39
andre__yes, i did vote :)16:39
anidelstill.. few votes :) .. I'll update xournal tonight.. but was wondering16:39
RST38hKarma: 116:39
RST38hanidel: Before you update it though, could  you consider my comment?16:40
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anidelrefresh again: 3 out of 1016:40
* RST38h curses proxies16:40
anidelthat's all about your comment :)16:40
anidelif you're Marat16:40
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RST38hOh...I do not think a simple banner will be sufficient though16:41
RST38hThe banner will show up and disappear, but Xournal will continue using up 100% CPU for minutes16:41
anideldid you try to open your PDF with the PDF Viewer?16:41
anidelis it any faster or lighter in opening it up?16:42
RST38hIt is way lighter16:42
anidelwonder what are they using...16:42
RST38hActually the PDF I have opened is the GPL license shipped with the device :)16:42
anidelneed to check their dependencies..16:42
anidelwow.. I used to open bigger PDFs16:42
anidellet me try that.. where is it located?16:42
RST38hTry opening it - Xournal will show the opening page right away, but it will then continue using CPU16:42
mgedminMyDocs/.documents/maemo_software_copyright.pdf ?16:43
RST38hanidel: I have one more bug to report, this one much more clearcut16:43
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anidelcan't reproduce it16:45
RST38hanidel: Ok, let me tell you of the second bug and I will try to reproduce the pdf bug later16:45
anidelactually I need to bring in Go To next / prev pages16:45
RST38h1) Start Xournal 2) Make sure Pencil is selected16:45
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RST38h3) Select the ruler 4) Select the marker16:46
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anidelseen it16:47
RST38h5) Try drawing, rule does not work 6) Select ruler again 7) Try drawing, ruler will work although its icon is off16:47
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RST38hSimilar problem occurs with ruler/hand16:47
anidelthink  I know where this stems for.. nice finding16:47
anidelso will definitely push a new update later16:48
RST38hlooks like pencil and marker have separate ruler settings or something16:48
anidelanyway.. tried to open that PDF but load average is very low to me16:48
Macern900 going to be out for christmas? :)16:48
mgedminMacer: we hope16:48
RST38hanidel: I will work on recreatig it later today16:48
Macermgedmin: i wouldn't get one until after christmas anyways16:48
Macerchristmas season is the time for price gouging16:48
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Maceri made the mistake last year of going to the mall on christmas eve :)16:49
timeless_mbpanyone here want to be a guinea pig? :)16:49
anidelrst38h: thanks.. I'll try different PDFs , will put the opening banner to let people know what is doing.. and may be lower the 'nice' while loading the PDF..I'm using libpoppler, don't have much control on it16:49
Maceri just wanted to grab a couple more things.. it was anarchy16:49
RST38hanidel: Out of personal preference, can I ask you to return the gridded paper and maybe even yellowish aged paper? =)16:49
RST38hanidel: These were present in the old version =)16:49
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pupnikthose can help eyes hold focus16:49
Macerthe mall is right outside chicago and they had actual police officers at the mall haha16:49
pupnikand scan text16:49
anidelrst38h: unfortunately this is a lighter version of Xournal, all the tools are there in the code, there's no way to call them.. I had to remove all the menus and need to bring in a new UI16:50
Macerbecause security guards would have been run over or killed16:50
anidelI'm designing it and it'll take sometime to make it16:50
RST38hanidel: Oh16:50
RST38hanidel: Bring it on! =)16:50
anidelso I'm pushing a lighter version now and an update later16:50
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RST38hanidel: Ok I can recreate the pdf bug now16:50
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pupnikotoh, word procs and terminals generally dont use textured bgs either16:50
RST38hanidel: Do you hasvae the CPU load indicator installer?16:51
anidelusing top to monitor16:51
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RST38h1) Start Xournal 2) Opem maemo_software_copyright16:52
RST38h3) Watch top (or CPU Load) - it stays at 100%16:52
RST38hHTOP shows pdftoppm eating 100% CPU16:53
anidelweird, not on mine16:53
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anidelit's fast and tops 74% for a few secs16:53
RST38hStill stays at 100% here16:53
X-FadeRST38h: Not swapping something out?16:54
anideluhm which version do you have?16:54
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anidelno you're right... pdftoppm has spikes..16:56
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anidellet me see if it happens with other pdfs16:58
RST38hpdftoppm version 3.0016:58
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RST38hdoes notspikeforme,stays at 100% instead16:59
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mgedminmd5sum the pdf file?16:59
mgedminsee you're running the same things?16:59
RST38hand the image is already shown and I can edit it in xournal16:59
RST38ha mooment17:00
anideli'll have a look at it though17:01
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anidelthanks :)17:02
RST38hI have got the md5sum17:02
RST38ha moment17:02
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mgedmininteresting, isn't it?17:05
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RST38hnotice that my mmc image is a bit older17:05
RST38hit is pre 41-1017:05
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Flandrydoes the host system for the SDK need anything beyond an X-client/server setup? Gnome stuff?17:10
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TomaszDhello, does anyone know if/when the official maemo summit 2009 video recordings will be available?17:10
mihuIt seems I nuked the N900 I received at the Summit. I was playing around with the internals, especially with the gstreamer based multimedia subsystem. Apparently I have damaged the playbin2 of gstreamer. Now when the phone starts up, it hangs when it usually displays the intro video.17:10
mihuI just see the "dot bar". The video does not play and the boot does not continue. Any ideas? There is no network connectivity yet, so I cannot SSH into it yet.17:10
TomaszDugh, wait for the official firmware release and flash it then...17:11
mihuTomaszD: When will that be?17:11
TomaszDmihu, as soon as the n900 is commercially available I believe17:11
TomaszDor in a few days after that17:11
TomaszDbut when that happens... I'm not willing to speculate17:12
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TomaszDI'm just trying not to mess with it too much, as this is now my only phone17:12
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pupnikbad call bro17:12
TomaszDwhen the firmware comes out however... :)17:12
pupniktesting phone17:12
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pupnikbut xferring sim is no problem right?17:13
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TomaszDincidentally, I discovered a pretty annoying bug yesterday, if anyone can confirm
mgedminmihu: try asking qgil for help?17:14
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mihuI mean, it's alive, but it just won't go past the intro video. If some Nokia official (or contractor) is on this channel and can help me out, please give me a private message.17:14
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mihumgedmin: I think somebody already asked on the Maemo forum and the answer was like please wait for the official release.17:15
AndrewFBlackanyone know if thre are any unit conversion applications for Diablo/Fremantle17:15
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Flandryseems like there should be a way to bypass the fancy boot stuff17:15
mgedminbut was it a question like "can we have a new firmware image for fun", or "halp, I bricked my n900, halp"?17:15
mgedminAndrewFBlack: yes, it's called the Google widget17:16
mihuFlandry: Hopefully.17:16
Flandryi mean, if most linux systems had to play a video before access to a console, imagine the chaos17:16
mihumgedmin: I don't remember, I'm trying to find that out.17:16
X-Fademihu: It was somebody who did apt-get dist-upgrade17:17
X-FadeAnd killed his device that way.17:17
TomaszDyeah I know at least one person who did that during the summit17:17
TomaszDbut Nokians reflashed it on the spot17:17
mgedmin/etc/X11/ does "while pidof hildon-welcome; do sleep 1; done"17:17
mgedminI think that's the bit that's waiting for the video to stop playing17:18
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anidelrst could you send me your gpl pdf file?17:18
JaffaX-Fade: Do you or ferenc know of a problem with www from git? (see timsamoff's email to -developers)17:18
AndrewFBlackmgedmin, google doesn' have conversion I need to do17:18
Macerwhy is java such a memory whore17:18
X-FadeJaffa: He did some changes today.17:18
mgedminAndrewFBlack: wolfram alpha?17:19
Flandrygot an extra layer between you and the hardware17:19
fiferboyX-Fade: I had to have my phone reflashed at the summit because of dist-upgrade :(17:19
RST38hanidel: yes?17:19
TomaszDfiferboy, yeah I was talking about you actually :)17:19
fiferboyTomaszD: Did you have to get a new sim card?  Or does your phone recongnize your old one now?17:19
TomaszDfiferboy, hush hush. Everything is OK now.17:20
anidelrst38h if you could send me that pdf .. looks like it's different17:20
fiferboyTomaszD: :)17:20
AndrewFBlackmgedmin, I am somewhat impressed that any website like that does TBq to MBq conversions but I'm really looking for an appliation so I an stop using Spreadsheet to do it.17:20
Macerjust shutting down zimbra totaly whores the 512M i gave it. i guess i'll have to give it around 2-417:21
RST38hanidel: Understood, I will in a second.17:22
anidelthanks :)17:22
pupnikwhat is easy personal planning / calendar / project mgmt software17:24
RST38hanidel: what is your email address?17:24
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* ccooke considers some openvpn and routing fun to give his n900 a permanent public IP17:27
mihumgedmin: When I connect this dead device via USB, then I it mounts the vfat portion just fine. Hm, is there a key that I can press during bootup that will skip thas media foo? There is no way to get access to the internal memory (/etc/ and stuff) isn't itß17:27
mihuI mean it is not dead. It boots up, asks for the PIN of my SIM card but then stops at the video.17:27
ccookeDrat, openvpn isn't installable yet. Depends on the (missing) liblzo2-2 package.17:27
RST38hanidel: sent17:28
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mgedminmihu: I dunno :/17:28
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mgedminmihu: could you try usb networking?17:28
mgedmindoes the n900 automatically start a dhcp client on usb0/17:28
mgedminor does it require manual configuration?17:29
anidelthanks :D17:29
X-Fadeccooke: That should be on your device by default?17:29
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mihumgedmin: What do I need to do so that the N900 starts up with USB networking?17:30
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mihumgedmin: I just need access to /, then I can fix the problem.17:30
anidelmihu: well choose PC Suite mode...but. .in your case :)17:30
JaffaX-Fade: And are these changes likely to have caused problems or solved them? Does Ferenc follow -developers?17:31
mgedminbtw it's kinda interesting -- you said it mounts vfat, but does it pop up the "charge only/pc suite/usb mass storage" dialog?17:31
ccookeX-Fade: apt-cache search liblzo finds... nothing17:31
mgedminlack of liblzo is why I can't install the crash reporter17:31
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X-Fadeccooke: Hmm weird, indeed. This is weird as it is supposed to be on the rootfs.17:32
mihuanidel: It does not show the selection screen. I pressed "Sym Ctrl" and "Shift" key while bootup then it will expose the card immediately after turning the device on.17:32
X-FadeYou can see it being indexed in the snapshot of the rootsf I have:
anidelmihu: you can't flash it , can you17:33
mgedminnot without an image :(17:33
mihuanidel: If I get the flasher app and an image?17:33
anidelah, right..17:33
anidelflasher should be available17:33
anidelyou can ask on maemo-developers, may be some nokians will be able to help you out individually17:34
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* mgedmin is afraid the help is likely to be "if you drop by our office in .fi, we'll flash it"17:34
mgedminthere was some talk during the summit about putting the image on the web in a couple of days17:35
mihumgedmin: When I plug in the cable at the "Enter PIN code" dialog, then that "Usb connection dialog" is not popping up. I can just make it mount via the sym-ctrl/shift key hack.17:35
mgedminI guess that fell through17:35
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* mgedmin didn't even know about the ctrl+shift key hack17:35
anidelmihu: did you try without a sim and without a minisd?17:35
JaffaAnyone know if there's a more betterer list than
JaffaOr shall I create one?17:36
mihuanidel: That should not make a difference. I know that I damaged a file in the gstreamer installation. And I made a copy. So if I get access to the root file system somehow, I can swap it in back.17:36
X-FadeJaffa: That one is used for fremantle too.17:36
lardmanas long as it's the most bestest one possible17:36
mgedminJaffa: there was a list for fremantle somewhere in the developer guide pages17:36
mgedminseriously, mihu, ask on the list17:37
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mgedminI cannot imagine nokia encouraging their developers to spend time on irc when they're obviously working overtime to get the software out17:37
JaffaX-Fade: I know, and I'm trying to tell Forum Nokia  but didn't want to link to a page containing 'Diablo'17:38
X-FadeJaffa: Hehe, indeed17:38
mihumgedmin: 8-)17:39
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lardmananyone know if I can interchange gst_bin_new and gst_pipeline_new?17:39
JaffaAnd I can copy & paste from one MediaWiki instance to another :)17:39
pupniki want url hilighting with widened clickable boundaries for xterm17:40
pupnikgreat idea, eh17:40
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zashpupnik: doubleclick, magick keycombo -> open url17:40
pupnikthumb-hittable links from screen + irssi17:41
zashaka, port gnome-do to maemo!17:41
pupnikzash: the double click dunna werk17:41
zashusualy selects whole words in xterm17:42
zashduno how maemo treats it there17:42
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pupniki failed to communicate the problem17:43
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pupnikit is mostly in selecting urls in xterm17:44
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pupnikthe launch function is doable now iirc17:44
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pupnikother options might be a recent urls dropdown menu17:46
pupnikany thoughts?17:46
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pupnikhow yould you prefer to activate links from terminal?17:47
mgedminrecent urls? in xterm?17:47
pupniky not :)17:47
mgedminwhat would that be?  menu -> urls -> select url from list?17:47
mgedminhm, neat idea17:47
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pupnikwhat is the right data structure for that quick lookup/scan text17:52
pupniki think a tree17:52
pupnikeach url is stored in a tree where each letter is a node17:53
fatal^does anyone know how I can get that (double) time converted into a time_t?17:53
pupnikwhen scanning text on screen, you begin traversing tree after encountering http - lookups occur in O(1) time17:54
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mgedminpupnik: construct a DFA from the url regexp?17:54
pupnikthis must be in a library i assume - what is dfa? :)17:55
mgedmindiscrete finite automaton17:55
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mgedminprobably not worth it17:55
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mgedminthe idea is that you process each input character exactly once17:56
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pupnikwell i think i described it sufficiently - as each character appears on terminal, you either have a match in a child node or you exit the search with "new url found"17:56
* mgedmin has a sense of deja vu about this conversation17:56
pupnikoh, maybe this is an example of that17:56
mgedmindid I say discrete? gaah, I meant deterministic17:57
pupniksorry fatal^ no clue17:57
mgedminthe original idea for regexes was to compile them to DFAs for very fast pattern matching17:57
fatal^pupnik: ok :/17:58
mgedminthen people started extending regexp dialects with things like backreferences, they became non-regular, and impossible to process with DFAs17:58
pupnikthank you for connecting two things in my brain17:58
pupnikxterm probably already implements this or more general thing17:59
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mgedminactually, yes, it has to, for the purposes of highlighting the urls18:00
infobotmgedmin meant: actually, yes, it has to, for the purposes of underlining the urls18:00
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pupnikif i look my brain will start hurting, i know it18:01
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* pupnik runs away and starts cleaning18:01
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pupnikbut this annoys me, why do we give names to things like this (DFA) and teach them as a solution, when anyone who knows how to think about data structures should come up with it as the solution him/herself?18:04
mgedminso they don't waste time coming up with the solution that somebody else already came up with?18:04
mgedmindunno, you're asking me to justify science to you18:05
pupniki know the answers, just wish people thought about non wasteful data structures and algorithms more18:05
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* mgedmin jus wishes people thought18:06
pupnikpeople operate differently too.18:07
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fatal^riddlebox: I noticed my tracks didn't contain any time tags either, which means they get rejected by ..... which version are you using? I've built the freemantle git branch of maemo-mapper which only seems to fetch the very basic information from liblocation ....18:08
* GeneralAntilles hits pupnik for using PC pronouns.18:08
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* pupnik hits ppl for using python and ruby and javascript18:10
* sevard winds up his python and whips pupnik 18:11
* pupnik puts sevard's python in a C-clamp18:12
* ccooke forbids pupnik from using any language but befunge, intercal and circuit :-)18:12
* sevard brainfucks pupnik in a dark alley18:13
* Meizirkki hides ruby before anything bad happens18:13
pupnikawll ttfn18:13
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KhertanGOTO ++ !18:18
timeless_mbpmgedmin, GeneralAntilles , et al: ok, new localization package up18:21
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timeless_mbpif you already have the repo enabled, you should get the typical "update available" notice18:22
timeless_mbpif not, you're encouraged to give it a try :)18:22
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: fingerable zenity is really important to me :)18:22
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* timeless_mbp pokes asedeno_work 18:24
* timeless_mbp sighs18:24
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* timeless_mbp missed18:24
* timeless_mbp pokes aSIMULAtor 18:24
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lardmanaargh, bloody autofocus, or lack thereof18:30
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fiferboyDoes anyone know of an app with source available that uses tracker?18:32
fiferboyTracker documentation is... non-existant18:32
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timeless_mbpdoes the nautilus tracker search thing count?18:32
suihkulokkififerboy: there is rygel which uses tracker at least18:33
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fiferboysuihkulokki: Thanks, I forgot I could look at non-maemo applications ^_^18:34
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fiferboytimeless_mbp: I think nautilus would be a bit more than I need, especially since it has Beagle in it too18:35
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mgedmintracker comes with a gui search tool18:35
mgedminand some command-line tools that I never understood18:35
iDialektWow I'm reading about symbian users' thoughts on the iPhone. Some of the posts sound completely inexperienced.18:36
timeless_mbpiDialekt: shocking!18:36
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iDialektIt's just surprising. The symbian ui, while capable,.. Feels like a 90's OS. Not saying which os can do more but most of the claims are feeble and show clearly that one has never properly used the competing device18:38
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fiferboymgedmin: I don't think the gui tool is availabe on maemo yet, is it?18:39
mgedminno, I'm pretty certain it's not18:39
mgedminneither is nautilus18:39
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iDialektI hope I get a better experience with the n900 soon.18:40
iDialektThe one I had didn't feel ready for primetime yet18:40
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mgedminis my n900 warm because it was in my pocket, or because I left google reader open and polling for news with javascript?18:41
* GeneralAntilles bets on polling.18:42
iDialektSup GeneralAntilles .. Your nick is becoming a familiar if not household name18:44
* mgedmin byes18:44
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kkitohello, i am unable to run opengl-es2 apps under scratchbox. Anybody knows how to do that?18:48
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fiferboykkito: You can't run armel binaries in scratchbox in the latest SDK (at least, the maemo desktop portions of the gui don't start)18:50
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fiferboykkito: And I don't think opengl-es2 is available for x86 in the SDK, I beleive it is opengl desktop that is available18:51
fiferboy(at least when building Qt with opengl that is the case)18:51
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GeneralAntillesiDialekt, I am slowly popping up everywhere. *g*18:51
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* crashanddie moans at new guy hired above me who needs to feel powerful18:53
kkitofiferboy, I am porting a opengl-es2 game to maemo, but i need to run/debug it. Then it is not possible without the real device?18:54
AstralStormhas anyone tried building icedtea for n8x018:55
AstralStorm(and maybe n900)18:55
fiferboykkito: As I understand it the only way to build against opengl-es2 is to build for armel.  And the only way to run armel is on a device.18:55
AstralStormor other Java VM.18:55
AstralStormfiferboy: wrong18:55
AstralStormyou can run armel in qemu-arm18:56
fiferboykkito: You could compile for armel and ask someone with a device to test for you, but this becomes a real pain for debuging18:56
AstralStorm(with mediocre results)18:56
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, show him your Nokia prototype! That'll put 'im in his place!18:56
fiferboyAstralStorm: You can't start he maemo portions of the SDK in armel, though, so depending on the package it might not work at all18:56
AstralStormsure you can.18:56
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I'd rather show him my job offer from Nokia18:56
AstralStormI did that back in the past.18:56
kkitofiferboy, i did it and yes is a pain, for me and for my friend...18:57
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, but that would be fraud, considering they didn't make me one18:57
AstralStormwhat you can't start is the hardware part18:57
fiferboyAstralStorm: With what SDK?  Since beta 2 (at least) armel doesn't start in scratchbox18:57
AstralStormbut most of that uses dbus, so needs no testing18:57
AstralStormditch scratchbox18:57
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: It's only fraud if you use it to benefit yourself.18:57
AstralStormuse a better environment18:57
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AstralStormI'm talking about actual qemu-arm18:57
AstralStormthe one used for Poky Linux.18:57
SpeedEvilqemu-arm would still not emulate the 3d hardware18:58
AstralStormthat's true.18:58
* GeneralAntilles wishes everything about weren't so mindbendingly slow.18:58
SpeedEvilso the lib would bomb out18:58
AstralStormunless someone writes it18:58
AstralStormso, do that ;p18:58
GeneralAntillesJust, for once, can we please have a reasonably responsive website? :(18:58
jyskywhy is it that maemo sdk environment is so crappy, i always knew that nokia is just big fuck up with software but that bad?!18:58
AstralStormjysky: because of budget and time cuts ;p18:59
Robot101jysky: you're new to embedded development?18:59
AstralStormsomebody didn't get paid enough18:59
Robot101the SDK is *always* shit18:59
Robot101did you try symbian development? :P18:59
AstralStormsome are very nice18:59
jyskyRobot101, no, not really. i've don atmel development18:59
AstralStormSymbian is nokia too18:59
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AstralStormtry the iPhone SDK ;p18:59
jyskybut that's for kids ;)19:00
jyskytoo easy19:00
Robot101I did, but it only made iPhone apps. rubbish! :P19:00
AstralStormor the one for Motorolas19:00
AstralStorm(ugh otherwise, but the sdk is neat)19:00
AstralStormor the friggin android SDK19:01
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GeneralAntillesIt shouldn't take 3 minutes to login and thumb a package. . . .19:01
AstralStormGeneralAntilles: try Mer maybe?19:02
AstralStormthat one is quick, but still uses scratchbox crud19:02
AstralStormso, yeah.19:02
AstralStormnot much better19:02
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GeneralAntillesThis is, not sure what this has to do with Mer or Maemo. . . .19:03
AstralStormthat's Maemo.19:03
Mouseythose are Maemo19:03
GeneralAntillesAstralStorm, really don't get what you think I'm talking about here.19:03
AstralStormyes ;p19:03
AstralStormmy bad19:03
GeneralAntillesAstralStorm, and, yes, I know about Mer.19:04
GeneralAntillesI ran a friggin Mer booth at FLS this weekend. :)19:04
* GeneralAntilles throws rocks at tekojo.19:04
AstralStormGeneralAntilles: it is win, isn't it19:05
AstralStormjust needs some 10 extra developers19:05
Stskeepsoi, we dont use scratchbox in mer19:05
AstralStormor 1k man-hours19:05
AstralStormI noticed19:05
Stskeepsi take offense to that19:05
AstralStormyou did, but now it's all OBS19:05
AstralStormwhich is win19:05
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GeneralAntilles~60 seconds of staring at a spinning progress circle and still no thumb.19:05
AstralStormGeneralAntilles: have a cup of tea in the meantime19:06
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: if you want slow19:06
timeless_mbptry using the Flag app once you install my package :)19:06
timeless_mbpbut at least it gives you progress indicators :)19:06
timeless_mbpa shiny progress meter :)19:06
GeneralAntillesIt's no wonder nobody wants to rate Extras-testing stuff.19:06
GeneralAntillesBecause you CAN'T!19:06
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fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Rate my extras-testing stuff19:07
lcukhi, i have installed "packagerate" application, and its close to whats needed for on device rating and voting for with the maemo packages but needs fremantle updating and polishing19:07
* timeless_mbp grovels for testers19:07
GeneralAntillesI've been trying to give one thumbs up to VGBA for 12 minutes now.19:07
GeneralAntillesStill staring at a spinning circle19:07
GeneralAntillesAh, looks like it timed out.19:07
GeneralAntilles3rd time's the charm.19:07
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Xisdibik_GeneralAntilles: im crossing my fingers for you19:08
GeneralAntillesThis is ridiculous, we need servers or this is going to be 2007 all over again.19:08
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GeneralAntillesThat's a hit this platform can't afford.19:08
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timeless_mbplcuk: i'm trying to install packagerate19:09
timeless_mbpbut i want someone to play w/ my package ;)19:09
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: btw...19:10
timeless_mbp"I understand and agree." => "Yeah, right."19:10
timeless_mbpsound ok? :)19:10
GeneralAntillesSounds great.19:10
GeneralAntillesHopefully qwerty12 will have a patched h-a-m that disables it entirely soon, anyway.19:10
timeless_mbpso... Most of my Add/Remove app now talks about Add/Remove-ing stuff19:11
timeless_mbpshould the actual Install dialog also change from "Install" to "Add" ?19:11
timeless_mbp"The package you are about to install is not provided by Nokia. "19:12
timeless_mbp"Packages from untrusted sources may include malware that can "19:12
timeless_mbp"cause financial damage, access your stored data, or harm the "19:12
timeless_mbp"device. The package may also be subject to 3rd party rights and "19:12
timeless_mbp"license terms.\n"19:12
timeless_mbp"Installation will be at your own risk."19:12
timeless_mbp... that's the current text in enus1 ....19:12
* timeless_mbp wonders which idiot decided to use a small font size for the text19:12
ShadowJKThe "browser tops itself" stuff on bugzilla is kinda chaotic...19:13
timeless_mbpI still like my diablo string text19:13
timeless_mbpit was something like "Since this software isn't from Nokia, it might actually work"19:13
timeless_mbpHow about...19:13
timeless_mbp"This 3rd party package might actually work, or it might embarrass you, or cause you financial harm."19:14
* GeneralAntilles files a blocker out of spite.19:14
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, indeed.19:14
* timeless_mbp still doesn't quite understand what triggers that19:15
timeless_mbpanyone have comments about my proposed text?19:15
GeneralAntillesAt least it's not as bad as it was on Diablo.19:15
ShadowJKbtw, on N8x0, if you open a new window in browser (Either opening link from browser, or opening link from another app), and if you switch away from the browser BEFORE it has written the title bar (you can see the titlebar changing in the task switcher), then it's much less likely that it tops itself later.19:15
riddleboxfatal^, I am using whatever is in the n810 repos, sorry so late, had to get the dogs from the kennel19:15
GeneralAntillesWow, now I've managed to give VGBA two thumbs up.19:16
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, are you as tired as I am?19:16
GeneralAntillesOh wait, three!19:16
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, I slept a LOT last night, so I'm mostly back up to speed.19:16
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, but, yeah, that was a long weekend.19:16
AndrewFBlackI didn't get home until 11pm last night19:17
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, I beep at you as we were leaving and you guys were loading up the car.19:17
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GeneralAntillesYour father-in-law (?) gave me a dirty look but you didn't look up. :P19:17
ShadowJKI mostly avoid the topping behaviour of microb now by activating the task switcher, waiting for the title bar to change, and then switching back to whatever I was doing before I wanted to load a page in the background19:17
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, lol he didn't know how you where and he was having  bad day lol19:17
GeneralAntillesI got back around 5.19:17
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, if it wasn' for them paying for my hotel I would not have brought them19:18
lcukandre__, ok :$19:18
GeneralAntillesRST38h, congrats, VGBA now qualifies for Extras. :P
AndrewFBlackMy mother in law can't understand why I would work on a project that I don't make any money off of19:19
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GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, hehe, it's that mentality that's currently holding back open source. ;)19:19
crashanddieN900 night mode fail:
AndrewFBlackWell she can't even check her own email she has no idea what open source is, I was trying to explain what the Sheevaplug I got wasand I justgave up19:20
crashanddieSheevaplug sounds like an Indian religious dildo19:21
GeneralAntillesDunno about you, but the free ham sandwiches are a big part of why _I_ do it. :D19:21
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, looks like Blair Witch19:22
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, you got Ham mine what turkey I got robbed19:22
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GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, haha, I would've had a turkey but they were out.19:22
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, johnx enlightened me to the fact that the crazy guy with the camera was Roblimo from /. :D19:24
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, When I walked out Brian congradulated me on winning the sheevaplug I just smiled and said thanks.19:24
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, the guys who I couldn't figure out what post of mine he replied to19:24
AndrewFBlackyeah is that who your talking about?19:25
GeneralAntillesNah, the guy with the video camera.19:25
AndrewFBlackohh yeah that guy is was nuts19:25
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AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, wow and you pissed him off lol19:26
GeneralAntillesHehe, I got the Ogg lecture.19:27
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AndrewFBlackWho was that guy who talked to you for like an hour19:27
GeneralAntillesEric Noble19:28
GeneralAntillesNo idea who he is.19:28
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GeneralAntillesHe went off on some crazy shit about needing government regulation and taxes for any new technology to be adopted.19:28
timeless_mbpa coworker had a picture of him open today19:28
timeless_mbphe seemed to think the guy's ok19:28
* timeless_mbp shrugs19:28
GeneralAntilles"We have to make gas $6 a gallon!"19:29
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, Roblimo? Yeah, he was great.19:29
timeless_mbpno eric noble19:29
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GeneralAntillesWhich Eric Noble, though?19:29
AndrewFBlackthere was some real strange people there19:29
timeless_mbpthere's more than one?19:29
* timeless_mbp remembers roblimo from circa 200119:30
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, seems like it.19:30
AndrewFBlackI still can't believe had someone there who didn't even know what linux was19:30
timeless_mbpbah, no pictures19:30
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* SpeedEvil wishes for $6 gasoline.19:30
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, 50s/60s, mostly gray hair, short beard.19:31
* timeless_mbp gives up19:31
SpeedEvil(as it's rather more than that now)19:31
GeneralAntillesAh, think it's this Eric Noble:
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, that was him19:32
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AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, Im thinking Sheevaplug + 7inch USB Touch Screen + Mer + Battery Pack would be a cool toy lol19:34
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, make a great kitchen computer.19:35
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AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, tempted to make a Carputer out of it19:35
riddleboxhrmm using maemo-mapper and I have a huge track from this weekend, but it doesnt upload the whole track19:35
GeneralAntillesYeah, or that.19:36
* timeless_mbp frowns19:36
timeless_mbpso... anyone else w/ an n900 and time to use a translation?19:36
timeless_mbpi really really need feedback :)19:36
SpeedEvilAndrewFBlack: see
* AndrewFBlack is tempted to run home and see if n900 is there yet19:37
SpeedEvil(larger screens are available)19:37
timeless_mbpAndrewFBlack: ups tracking? :)19:37
GeneralAntillesarm9 is gonna be a bit painful for Maemo 5.19:37
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, Quim'n'Co are tool cool for tracking number.19:37
AndrewFBlacktimeless_mbp, quim didn't give me the tracking number and I cna't get ahold of him19:38
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timeless_mbpAndrewFBlack: i could send him an sms if you wanted...19:38
AndrewFBlacktimeless_mbp, sure19:38
AndrewFBlackSpeedEvil, looks nice but not as fun as building it myself19:39
AndrewFBlacktimeless_mbp, Just say I'm wanting my tracking number to see where its at right now19:39
AndrewFBlackSpeedEvil, sheevaplug is about twce as fast also19:39
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SpeedEvilAnd: yes, it is.19:40
SpeedEvilAndrewFBlack: I'm considering the above to repair my microwave - the existing LCD is broken.19:41
timeless_mbpsms sent19:41
AndrewFBlackSpeedEvil, thas one hell of a microwave lcd19:41
SpeedEvilAnd add some features. (time-lapse video of cooked items for bread rising, ...)19:41
timeless_mbpi installed a package and now i'm seeing a checking for updates, please wait message19:41
AndrewFBlacktimeless_mbp, thanks19:41
timeless_mbpbut my background has the SMS i just sent, not ham19:41
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lcuktime for the world to end, LHC is coming back online19:43
timeless_mbpum... packagerate has issues in Fremantle19:44
timeless_mbpit makes MicroB kerning look good19:44
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* AndrewFBlack waits for tracking number19:46
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, PackageRate has issues in Diablo.19:49
* timeless_mbp sighs19:50
timeless_mbpan end user reported never finding the soft power off button19:50
* ShadowJK should run some mplayer+mencoder benchmark on sheevaplug19:51
timeless_mbpis the rating done w/ my wiki password, my bugzilla password, my garage password, the talk password i don't have, or something else?19:52
GeneralAntillesShould be Garage19:55
GeneralAntilles /maemo.org19:55
GeneralAntillessince that's what's used for Downloads.19:55
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fatal^riddlebox: ok... then I don't know your problem.... I debugged my lacking timestamps (which might not be the only required tag missing) to be related to the new GPS code for liblocation in maemo-mapper ... .... this is only useful on top of the fremantle branch of maemo-mapper git though.19:58
timelessyou didn't mention the part about packagerate crashing on fremantle...20:00
anidelI had to reply to people stating how easy is to use N900 as a modem for Mac:
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genewitchhow-to ringtone?20:09
lcuktimeless, the packagerate principle is right, the implementation needs work20:09
lcukits the old style, but pretty much the sort of thing thats needed to link up with -testing20:09
genewitchsearching doesn't yield any good results on "ringtone" or "ringtones"20:10
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GeneralAntillesgenewitch, Google should, though. ;)20:13
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genewitchGeneralAntilles: it didn't.20:14
genewitchhence me coming in here20:14
genewitchall google turned up is "there should be a site for the n900 ringtones"20:14
GeneralAntillesWhy does it matter if they're for N900?20:14
GeneralAntillesJust pick a wav/mp3/mp4/whatever.20:15
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AndrewFBlackMy ringtone will be GeneralAntilles be interviewed by Roblimo20:16
genewitchGeneralAntilles: well, for a start it only sees the wav file in the directory, not the mp3. Secondly, picking the wav file comes back with "unsupported ring tone format"20:16
GeneralAntillesI suspect I looked very shifty eyed20:16
GeneralAntillesCrazy Asian dude staring lasers through my forehead was very distracting.20:16
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wiretappedAndrewFBlack: link?20:16
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AndrewFBlackwiretapped, I'm not sure if Roblimo posted it anywhere I just know he recorded it20:17
AndrewFBlackYou can see me in the background trying to look busy lol20:17
genewitchso there's no spec page for the format the ringtones have to be in?20:17
wiretappedgenewitch: ringtones are standard wav files20:17
wiretappedthey just need to be signed20:17
GeneralAntillesgenewitch, I haven't had anything that hasn't worked so far.20:18
wiretappedyou can purchase a key from nokia20:18
timeless_mbpafaik the n900 just uses normal .wav files...20:18
genewitchGeneralAntilles: mplayer plays the wav; unsupported ringtone format in the sound control panel.20:19
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timeless_mbpgenewitch: does the normal media player play it?20:19
genewitchoh , let me check20:19
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* timeless_mbp sighs20:20
genewitchyeah it's such a drag wanting something as simple as a ringtone to work properly and having people treat you like an idiot20:21
genewitchi also sigh.20:21
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timeless_mbpwell, the fact that you found the default media player so unusable that you immediately forgot about it20:21
timeless_mbpsays something about the quality of it20:21
timeless_mbpboth in features and bling/wow20:21
genewitchmedia player says unsupported codec20:22
wiretappedtry the file command?20:22
timeless_mbpok... so...20:22
wiretappedor, what does mplayer say about your wav?20:22
timeless_mbpmedia player and the other thing use the same gstreamer backend20:22
genewitchstereo 8000hz wav20:22
timeless_mbpwhich means there's something "interesting" about it20:22
timeless_mbpiirc there are gstreamer command line tools around20:23
wiretapped8khz might be the problem20:23
timeless_mbpnot sure if they're installed by default or if you have to install them from a repo20:23
genewitchtimeless_mbp: so the answer is "whatever wav file the media player can play is a valid ringtone" not "mp3/mp4/wav" and "any normal wav"20:23
genewitchi just wanted a spec sheet20:23
genewitchi gathered it wasn't a valid format when the control panel said "unsupported"20:23
timeless_mbpi said it uses normal wav files20:24
timeless_mbpi didn't say it supported them :)20:24
timeless_mbpfrom what i've heard, what it actually does is take the file you give it, convert it into a very boring wav format20:25
timeless_mbpand then plays that20:25
timeless_mbpat least under certain circumstances20:25
GeneralAntillesThe default ringtones are AAC, actually.20:25
timeless_mbpso that it doesn't have to worry about spending time decoding when it's supposed to do work20:25
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timeless_mbpwav is really just a container20:25
timeless_mbpi could probably stuff a jpeg into a wave file if i tried hard enough :)20:26
genewitchyeah, i'll have to edit it all on the PC20:26
genewitchi hate reading man pages on the nokia :-p20:26
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timeless_mbpnot a problem, by default we strip man pages :)20:26
genewitchi think maybe you're right, man isn't even there20:27
Flandrywhere would i find information on how to make an installed app show an icon in maemo? I see nothing about it in the packaging wiki20:27
timeless_mbpFlandry: i probe GAN20:27
timeless_mbpit works for me :)20:27
timeless_mbpsomewhere you'll find that it's basically a png run through uue20:28
Flandrysorry, what?20:28
timeless_mbpwhat => who => GeneralAntilles20:28
timeless_mbp... with certain dimensions which vary depending on the os version20:28
Flandryoh, i include the uucoded icon in the control file20:28
Flandryis that all it should take?20:28
GeneralAntillesFor the application manager, anyway.20:29
GeneralAntillesThe application menu is controlled by the .desktop file.20:29
Flandryi see it in the app manager now that i look20:29
Flandryso how do i learn about the .desktop file?20:29
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GeneralAntillesThink the official docs contain some info.20:30
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GeneralAntillesAlthough historically it's just been badly documented.20:30
GeneralAntillesMy recommendation is to just copy from another application's .desktop.20:30
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timeless_mbpyou could try to fix wiki docs :)20:31
Flandrythat's an uphill battle :D20:31
timeless_mbpsomeone might thank you20:31
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Flandryi fixed the place where the sdk install linked to the beta...20:31
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Flandryso grab a source package and look at the .desktop in the debian dir?20:32
timeless_mbpdid someone send gettext to extras-devel?20:32
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timeless_mbpclicking on "Maemo 5" doesn't cause it to turn orange20:33
GAN900timeless_mbp, can you find MishaS at some point and ask about Fremantle FBReader. It's a bit alpha for a supposed Fremantle Star.20:33
timeless_mbpGAN900: poke me tomorrow "morning"20:33
timeless_mbp(before 4pm finnish local time)20:33
Flandrythat's for sure20:34
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FlandryStarting browser daemon: browserd20:34
Flandry/usr/bin/ line 302: 20993 Aborted                 /usr/bin/hildon-home20:34
Flandry/usr/bin/ line 302: 21010 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) $TRACKER20:34
Flandry/usr/bin/ line 302: 21012 Aborted                 (core dumped) mafw-dbus-wrapper /usr/lib/mafw-plugin/mafw-tracker-source.so20:34
Flandryis that something i should worry about20:35
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* timeless_mbp frowns20:35
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timeless_mbpok... so um20:41
timeless_mbpsomeone want to remind me how to upload a package to extras? :)20:41
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Flandrythere's the extras upload tool if you want to use the browser20:42
Flandrythat's the only way i've tried20:42
Flandry <--chinook vintage20:42
Corsactimeless_mbp: ? :)20:42
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* timeless_mbp pokes with a stick20:44
timeless_mbpok... so um20:44
timeless_mbphow do i get a .changes file?20:45
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anidelif you dpkg-buildpackage it, you should have it already20:46
anidel I use: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us -sa -D20:46
anideldpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us -sa -D20:46
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timeless_mbpwhat if i find a deb in another repository20:53
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Firebirdintersting, my game jumped 300 downloads between yesterday and today20:54
AndrewFBlacktimeless_mbp, no reply from quim?20:54
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AndrewFBlackI wonder what time it is there lol he might be in bed20:54
timeless_mbpit's 9pm here20:54
timeless_mbpwe just ate dinner @work20:54
timeless_mbpnot sure where he is20:54
timeless_mbpbut he's generally not east of here20:55
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AndrewFBlackwhere are you?20:55
Flandrysome kind of three-character localization of names?20:55
Flandrytimeless, make sure you use the right buildpackage options20:56
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Flandrythe default ones don't work as i learned...20:56
timeless_mbpFlandry: airport code20:56
Flandryoh i thought you meant somewhere much warmer...20:56
timeless_mbpwell, the computers in this room keep us toasty20:57
timeless_mbpwe counted cores last week20:57
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pupnikheh being warmed by the byproduct of actual information processing21:04
pupnikthat's kind of a unique position21:04
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lcukpupnik, its not unique lol, i used to warm hands on crt monitors and rest feet on the top of computer21:07
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pupnikyou probably were coding visual basic apps on a PIV21:07
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lcuknahh playing half life n portal and UT and chattin with mates most likely21:08
pupniki cant feel any heat on n81021:08
pupnikit is kind of otherworldly to a pc guy21:09
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lcukpupnik, my 810 gets warm when charging21:09
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pupnikspeaking of...21:13
keesjhow do i import all my contacts from google?21:17
keesjand should mailfor exchange work with exchange servers?21:18
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riddleboxanyone got an extra stylus for their n810?21:21
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riddleboxwink wink21:21
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bulfaiteranyone here uses esbox to develop for maemo5?21:32
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pablo_in scratchbox . its possible see How rootstrap is used...21:35
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kkitothere are any possibility to get a n900 development device, devkit or something?21:40
timeless_mbpif you had enough karma, nokia sent an invite for a dev program21:41
timeless_mbpi think there are ways for you to propose things you want to do for which you'd need a device21:42
lcukkkito, there is a downloadable devkit and all info here:
kkitoi dont know what karma is :)21:42
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timeless_mbprecognition of value within a community21:42
kkitolcuk, i need a device. I have alredy the sdk but i am unable to debug an opengl-es2 game that i am developing for the n90021:42
lcukkkito, in the short term, post on and get testers involved?21:43
AndrewFBlackkkito my n900 is in the mail to me now if you need someone to test t for you I will21:44
Flandrymy app works ok in sdk when launched from shell, fails with sound problem from icon oO21:44
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lcukkkito, make a thread about it and shows screenshots and links to source and stuff and talk about how to put it onto devel repository21:45
kkitolcuk, AndrewFBlack , thx but i need a device to debug myself, because right now the game doesnt run on a real device ( i friend thar have an n900 test it), and is something that should be debugged21:45
AndrewFBlackkkito, ok21:46
lcukkkito, add debug info as printfs, send to friend, let him do it21:46
lcukor, invite friend round with beer21:46
timeless_mbpkkito: fwiw, forumnokia historically has had loaner programs of various sorts21:46
keesjstrace is also good!21:46
kkitoanyways the game will not be free at all, and no opensource... I want to release a demo and a commercial version...21:47
kkitowill be cheap... but no free21:48
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timeless_mbpkkito: wait for devices to reach stores and pick one up....21:48
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timeless_mbpeither that, or look into forum nokia21:48
timeless_mbpthat's the more commercial oriented end of things21:49
kkitotimeless_mbp, i have reserved one device on the nokia store21:49
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kkitobut i want to release the game at the same date that nokia n900 will be ship21:49
timeless_mbpindicates there still is a loaner program21:49
hrwnormally I would say that beagleboard can be probably used as test device. but I prefer to not support non-free software21:49
keesjkkito: interesting. you probably can develop on the beagleboard21:49
timeless_mbpkkito: anyway21:50
timeless_mbpthis channel is mostly oriented toward open source advocates21:50
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timeless_mbpyou've gotten the best answers they can offer21:50
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timeless_mbpasking further is likely to get less positive answers21:50
kkitoi know :) thx everyone21:51
timeless_mbpas a commercial developer, forum nokia is the official answer21:51
kkitotimeless_mbp, thx :)21:51
timeless_mbpi'm not sure if they have devices for loan, but if they get inquiries, they'll probably figure it out21:51
timeless_mbpthe other thing you could do is try to contact the maemo marketing team to see if you can give them a pitch21:51
timeless_mbpthey might manage to find a device21:51
* timeless_mbp would go w/ FN21:51
kkitotimeless_mbp, thx very much21:52
timeless_mbpgood luck21:52
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timeless_mbpok... where the heck is dput?21:54
timeless_mbpi installed devscripts21:55
timeless_mbpii devscripts 2.10.35maemo121:55
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mikkov__install dput too21:58
timeless_mbpmikkov_: how?21:58
mikkov__apt-get install dput?21:58
timeless_mbpapt-get install dput21:58
timeless_mbpPackage dput is not available, ...21:58
mikkov__needs extras-devel21:58
mikkov__or are you in scratchbox?21:58
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timeless_mbpi'm in Mer21:59
mikkov__then forget my instructions ;)21:59
timeless_mbpyour instructions seem to work22:00
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timeless_mbpcan i use ~/ ?22:01
timeless_mbpi don't like being root22:01
mikkov__hmm, never tried that22:01
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timeless_mbpi'm not saying it exists22:01
timeless_mbpmerely that there should be something like it22:02
timeless_mbpand it'd be nice if you suggested it :)22:02
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mikkov__I have always used /etc/ :)22:02
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mikkov__#   otherwise, read /etc/ then ~/.dput.cf22:04
* timeless_mbp grumbles22:04
timeless_mbplibexpat1-dev = 1.95.8-5maemo1+0m522:04
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timeless_mbplibexpat1 = 2.0.1-422:04
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bulfaiterok: so I guess noone uses esbox. How do you develop for maemo? Vim? Emacs?22:06
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johnsqbulfaiter: is there somerhing else?22:06
bulfaiteri'm asking :)22:06
bulfaiterI'd like to have an IDE22:06
bulfaiteri'm more used to those things22:06
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timeless_mbpbulfaiter: there's an eclipse system somewhere22:07
johnsqbulfaiter: unix is editor + make = no gui22:07
bulfaitertimeless_mbp, yeah, esbox22:07
timeless_mbppersonally i use vi/notepad/xcode + Mer22:07
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bulfaiterand how do you autocomplete code?22:07
bulfaiterasuming that you do22:07
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hardakerbulfaiter: emacs + meta-/ and templates ;-)22:08
johnsqbulfaiter: vim/emacs supports such things. write short names and no 1page long functions names22:08
timeless_mbpthat's what fingers are for22:08
timeless_mbpmuscle memory22:08
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bulfaiterhardaker: and does emacs index .h headers?22:08
hardakeryou mean auto-create them?22:09
bulfaitertimeless_mbp: somewhere, productivity goddess cry22:09
hardaker(well, it quite possibly can but I don't use a package that makes it do that)22:09
bulfaiterno, i mean: read / parse headers22:09
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bulfaiterso it can "guess" what you want to type22:09
hardakerread and parse for what purpose exactyl (otherwise I'll say "yes")22:09
bulfaiteri don't know if you ever used netbeans for c/c+22:10
johnsqbulfaiter: I write my with copy & paste, most functions i need, i have already written22:10
crashanddieoh wow, look at that, a bunch of noobies discussing :)22:10
bulfaiterit reads/indexes your code, so you can autocomplet just like java22:10
crashanddieLook GeneralAntilles, the new generation has arrived, look how beautiful our toddlers are!22:10
* timeless_mbp has used netbeans22:10
timeless_mbpand a bunch of others22:10
timeless_mbpthey're useful at times22:10
hardakerbulfaiter: yes, it'll do that.22:10
bulfaiterhardaker: :), ok, I'll do some research22:11
* timeless_mbp actually worked on netbeans for a bit22:11
* timeless_mbp remembers forte22:11
timeless_mbpand forte for java22:11
timeless_mbpand the mess of renamings22:11
hardakerbulfaiter: it's a generic completion.  If you run irc inside of emacs and then type bulf meta-/ in your code it'll autocomplete to bulfaiter :-)22:12
bulfaiterwell, netbeans refactor for c++ and java works quite well right now22:12
johnsqbulfaiter: but better than completion is Reactive Keyboard.22:12
bulfaiterreactive keyboard?22:12
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johnsqbulfaiter: intelligent completion, it knows what you plan to type22:13
bulfaiterjohnsq: that's nice for bash, i guess22:13
bulfaiterbut when coding22:13
bulfaiterI just need to write things once :P22:13
johnsqbulfaiter: It does the same job and needs no index and other stuff.22:14
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crashanddiejohnsq, real men use raw input into the kernel22:18
crashanddieno pussy predictiveness22:18
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crashanddieI cat > /proc directly on boot22:19
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bulfaiterand now, the other question -crashanddie, i want you opinion too ;)22:27
bulfaiterMakefiles and all that stuff: do you do them by hand?22:27
bulfaiteror is there any tool to create them?22:27
crashanddieI have magic Makefiles22:27
bulfaiter(its a plural you)22:27
crashanddiewhich take care of themselves22:27
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bulfaitergreat, so you just do make clean22:27
crashanddiebulfaiter, there's some nifty options in gcc which allow to find the dependencies based on the source code22:28
johnsqbulfaiter: look at automake autoconfig and such.22:28
crashanddieso you don't have to make sure your makefiles include everything22:28
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crashanddiebulfaiter, I can have a 50 classes c++ app, but my makefile still only has 10 lines or so22:29
bulfaiterand with that 50 classes app, you don't autocomplete?22:30
bulfaiteror you use emacs, too?22:30
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johnsqbulfaiter: there isn't much magic in makefiles, I just copy them from old projets to new, and replace some variables.22:30
bulfaiterthe thing is: i'm using librest, so I have to import some .h. Pkg-config does its magic22:31
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bulfaiterand gets the includes and libs22:31
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bulfaiterso there's no problem if i know the function names22:31
bulfaiterand it compiles and all that22:32
bulfaiterwithout any problem22:32
bulfaiter(and works)22:32
bulfaiterbut... I'd like to be able to import, say my "IDE": look for this dependency here, and index it22:32
bulfaiterso, after that, some keystroke allows me to choose between the options22:32
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crashanddiebulfaiter, invalid usecase22:33
johnsqbulfaiter: LIBS=   `pkg-config --libs xcb-keysyms ...` does the same job22:33
crashanddiebulfaiter, a makefile, by design, is something you setup once, use many22:33
crashanddiebulfaiter, so having to lookup the documentation once isn't going to kill you22:33
bulfaitercrashanddie: i code for a living22:33
johnsqbulfaiter: same with -cflags for the headerfiles.22:33
bulfaiteri use visual studio22:33
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bulfaiterjohnsq: yeah, i did that: pkg-config librest --libs --cflags22:34
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bulfaiterand got the options to pass g++22:34
bulfaiterand as i did it with `22:34
crashanddiebulfaiter, and I travel the world and tell banks and governments they're idiots for being so lax with regards to security, I'm also a programmer by trade, seriously, don't try to bollock your way through this channel by using such arbitrary statements that don't mean anything to anyone except yourself22:34
bulfaiteri mean, between that comma,22:34
bulfaiterit expanded22:34
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bulfaitercrashanddie: i don't need to be your friend. I came here asking for some help, and you started calling me noob22:35
bulfaiterso i don't need your answers22:35
crashanddiebulfaiter, what you're talking about is not related to Maemo. If you have an issue with makefiles or gcc, go to the appropriate channels22:35
bulfaiteri can use johnsq's22:35
bulfaiterhe's been helpfull22:35
johnsqbulfaiter: `...` or $(shell .... )22:35
lardmanhello chaps22:36
crashanddieo/ lardman, wassup mate?22:36
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crashanddielardman, 12 hour flight tomorrow, woohoo!22:36
lardmancrashanddie: not much, just back from a meeting, chilling out with a beer22:36
* timeless_mbp sighs22:36
crashanddieoh, beer sounds nice22:37
lardmanyay! sounds like fun...22:37
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lardman12h to where?22:37
timeless_mbphas anyone here seen foreaca-weather-applet?22:37
timeless_mbpits package is um... interesting22:37
crashanddielardman, proper excuse to convince my cow-orkers that the n900 is awesome22:37
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crashanddielardman, and nowhere to flee (for them!)22:37
crashanddielardman, california22:37
lardmanwho needs an excuse!22:37
crashanddiethey do22:37
lardmanah, sounds nice22:37
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crashanddieI just discovered the place I'm staying at has a drumkit, and a few basses/guitars, so it's going to be hard to be professional22:38
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crashanddielardman, I got myself a Python book, as you recommended, and will try to get a bluetooth keyboard in the airport tomorrow, might start hacking away nicely22:39
lardmangood good :)22:39
lardmanunfortunately pyGTK has no book22:39
lardmanor had, might have one now22:39
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crashanddielardman, not interested in pyGTK22:39
lardmangood lad, who needs GUIs?22:39
crashanddieGTK make me feel like I have a pig's scrotum stuck to my fingers22:40
lardmanQt all the way?22:40
crashanddieQT isn't any better, but at least "it's the way of the future"22:40
lardmanyes, true22:40
crashanddieand well, Qt is more object oriented, so makes more sense with Python22:40
crashanddieanyway, time for some awesome ironing, ttyl22:41
hrwbye all22:41
lardmanbye hrw22:41
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lardmananyone know how to set macro mode on the N900 camera programmatically?22:42
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lardmandamn, needs libgdigicam, but it doesn't seem to like me22:43
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lcuklardman, wheres the -dev for digicam22:45
riddleboxi wish i had a n90022:46
lardmanhave to compile your own from gitorious22:46
lardmanbut the example code is sparse to say the least22:46
qwerty12_N810lardman: AFAIK, the author of that library frequents #maemo22:47
lardmanqwerty12_N810, do you know his name?22:47
X-Fadelardman: ab22:47
lardmanand does anyone know how I get xchat to s/,/: ?22:47
qwerty12_N810ab, I think22:47
lardmanX-Fade: thanks22:48
lardmanqwerty12_N810, ditto22:48
qwerty12_N810lardman: settings -> preferences -> input box -> nick completion suffix22:48
lardmanI don't have input box22:49
lardmanxchat-GNOME 0.26.122:49
lardmanI'm being forced to use , !22:49
qwerty12_N810Eurgh, use the real thing22:49
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: irssi you mean? :)22:49
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qwerty12_N810I knew someone would say that! :)22:50
lardmanxchat uses tcl22:50
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X-Fademost clients do22:50
lardmanoh, fair enough22:50
qwerty12_N810No, it has a plugin for allowing one to use scripts for it written in TCL22:51
X-Fadetcl irc and bot scripts are quite common22:51
lardmanah ok22:51
lardmanright, just removing the gnomisms and going to pure xchat, bbiam, I hope ;)22:51
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* timeless_mbp grovels for testers22:52
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: so... fingerable zenity? :)22:52
X-FadeAh, finally all icons show for apps in the packages interface.22:52
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qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I'm working on something of my own, ATM :\22:53
lardmanI'm back22:53
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lardmanmuch better22:53
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, get a free minute or two to review the cloak proposal? ;)22:53
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Do you know of any docs from freenode about what we can reasonably ask for?22:54
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GAN900X-Fade, yes, but I haven't reviewed them in a while. Will re-reck.22:55
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tbftimeless: is it possible to have kinetic scrolling in GtkMozEmbed?22:55
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pupnik----if iphone were a band, it would have a drop-dead sexy lead singer and solid musicians performing music that is dumbed-down and annoying.22:56
lcuklardman, did you run through the testsuite22:57
lcukas part of gdigicam22:57
lardmanlcuk: no22:57
tbftimeless_mbp: is it possible to have kinetic scrolling in GtkMozEmbed?22:57
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tbfor do i have to use some maemo specific API to embed a pannable browser widget?22:57
lcuksince it runs over all the variouscombinations22:57
lcukit might be an idea22:58
lardmanyes, but not in the way I want22:58
lcukand should show the expected use of each fn22:58
javispedrooh sorry. but this is hilarious.22:58
lardmanI need to feed the output to an xvimagesink in a small window22:58
javispedrothe "n900 does not have opengl" post is echoing all over the fansites22:58
lardmanlcuk: I also want to use a tee and two pipelines, which doesn't seem to agree with it, etc22:58
javispedroand they're even surprised...22:58
X-Fadejavispedro: Well iphone doesn't have it either ;)22:59
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Should we strangle the fools together? :)22:59
lcukmm? i thought once you pushed data onto a gst pipeline it just moves along the pipeline and the any library used at the source end is handled then and the results are left to flow through the pipe22:59
Stskeepsjavispedro: what on earth..22:59
Stskeepsjavispedro: wtf.22:59
lardmanlcuk: in fact I don't need the camera_bin stuff, I just want one pipeline22:59
lardmanlcuk: yeah, but it didn't work for me - may be my fault. I need to ask23:00
* lcuk nods23:00
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* javispedro was previously considering registering on certain fansite just to tell people that the "N900 wasn't a Intel Core 2 Duo" and slash their expectations in half.23:00
javispedrobut now I'm considering registering to defend the N900....23:00
* lardman heads off to watch Life23:00
Mouseycore uno?23:00
Flandryanyone willing to briefly test a game package on a real n900 and give me feedback on the controls?23:01
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lcukcya later lardman23:01
timeless_mbpiirc the browser gets kinetic panning by not disabling something from the engine23:01
javispedrobye lardman!23:01
timeless_mbpif you want the same kind of panning the browser has, you should be able to get it if you use the tablet browser apis23:01
RST38hjavis: That is a slippery path23:01
timeless_mbpbut kinetic panning wasn't part of gtkmozembed, ...23:02
RST38hYou already want to defend n900 in the net forums? A slippery path indeed23:02
timeless_mbpat least, iirc, that's how things are/aren't23:02
javispedroRST38h: I can't but help follow their latest weird activities.23:02
qwerty12_N810javispedro: I'd say "point 'em to the Quake 3 port" but I wouldn't be surprised if they said it was using software rendering...23:02
johnsqjavispedro: write or port ps1 emulator23:03
javispedroqwerty12_N810: well, I would. This is from the same guy with the 10 or 12 N900 emulators...23:03
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lcuktechnically its true tho isnt it - the n900 is not compatible with desktop opengl23:04
lcukgles sure23:05
lcukand show bounce being more advanced23:05
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javispedroit's true of course. how's that going to be a dealbreaker, specially: how's that going to be a dealbreaker AT THIS STAGE is over me.23:05
qwerty12_N810lcuk: But your average user will not understand the difference and will be thinking no 3D games are possible :)23:05
lcukbut its been clear from like 2004 that desktop opengl doesnt work on mobiles23:06
lcukare there actually any that support it23:06
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: No directx either ;)23:06
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qwerty12_N810lcuk: Welcome to the internet...23:06
lcuk:O omg X-Fade23:06
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: OMG23:06
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X-FadeI am not kidding!23:06
lcuk:'( i wanted to play farcry on my n90023:06
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lcuki just heard the n900 does not include a DVD drive on board23:07
* suihkulokki notes is having a memorial service for the burial of geocities23:07
Flysertoo bad wine wont work ...23:08
lcukhow am i expected to install windows 723:08
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: geocities died again?23:08
lcukFlyser, wine always works23:08
javispedrobtw lcuk, got the book. interesting. I wish they would have included a bit more info on diffs between gl and gl es .23:08
lcukask lardman23:08
Flyserlcuk: wine workson an arm processor?!23:08
lcuktimeless, died for real, they just stopped accepting updates ages ago afaik23:08
timeless_mbpFlyser: win32 works on arm23:08
lcukFlyser, wine works on users23:08
pvanhoofpvanhoof Hey, somebody knows how to get somebody on planet-maemo?23:09
pvanhoofpvanhoof Given the amount of stuff this upstream maintainer of Tumbler is doing for change-request that I'm making, I feel we should reward him a bit by getting him on planet-maemo (and he was just asking me about how this maemo stuff works, so)23:09
pvanhoofpvanhoof And how to get involved23:09
pvanhoofpvanhoof ill ask on #maemo23:09
Flyserlcuk: :D23:09
pvanhoofTumbler is going to be Harmattan's thumbnailer service23:09
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Flysertimeless_mbp: Link?23:09 ?23:09
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pvanhoofSomebody knows?23:09
X-Fadepvanhoof: can you mail to planet at maemo?23:09
X-Fadepvanhoof: I will then do that in the morning.23:10
FlyserEven if win32 works on arm this does not mean that wine does too23:10
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pvanhoofX-Fade, awesome, ok.23:10
X-Fadepvanhoof: thanks for the spam.23:10
pvanhoofnp :)23:10
GeneralAntillespvanhoof, this channel is logged. :)23:10
javispedroFlyser: well,  there have been some patches for Winelib ARM support in the wine tree.23:10
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GeneralAntillespvanhoof, so let's avoid handing direct email links over to the bots, thanks.23:10
pvanhoofoh, sorry gene23:10
pvanhoofGeneralAntilles I mean23:11
pupnik_will we get exchange / outlook integration (maybe commercial)?23:11
pupnik_friend is asking for it23:11
X-Fadepupnik_: already there?23:11
X-Fadepupnik_: mfe?23:11
pupnik_<- a little slow23:11
timeless_mbpFlyser: so, there was some recent progress by someone on wine-arm23:11
suihkulokkijavispedro: one of the oldest tricks you could do with qemu linux-user was to run "qemu-i386 ./wine" on a ppc23:11
suihkulokkiso you could do the same on arm23:12
javispedrosuihkulokki: but that's very slow.23:12
Flysersuihkulokki: qemu emulation on a mobile phone :D23:12
pupnik_X-Fade: solid?  mature?23:12
GeneralAntillesMail for Exchange, pupnik.23:12
suihkulokkijavispedro: oh really? :D23:12
timeless_mbpfor lack of a better note about win/arm,
pvanhoofX-Fade, I asked Jannis to send you that e-mail23:12
X-Fadepupnik_: integrated, offered by Nokia.23:12
pvanhoofX-Fade, note that Tumbler wont yet be used on Fremantle, so this is stuff for Harmattan already. On Fremantle the thumbnailer service is hildon-thumbnailerd23:13
javispedrosuihkulokki: AFAIK Darwine used to have PPC Wine, and a modified qemu for x86 user code only (native wine libs would be non emulated).23:13
X-Fadepvanhoof: Just tell him to mention Maemo a lot in his posts ;)23:13
timeless_mbpX-Fade: how does one file bugs about foreca? :)23:13
pvanhoofX-Fade, yeah he has a tag for maemo that he just made23:13
X-Fadepvanhoof: Otherwise he will feel the love of the negative vote ;)23:13
GeneralAntillesPlanet hates off-topic. rawr.23:14
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pvanhoofX-Fade, nod. Though audience indeed :)23:14
X-Fadepvanhoof: Couch surfing now.. Don't want to do real work ;)23:14
pvanhoofsure ok :)23:15
X-Fadepvanhoof: I'll do it in the morning.23:15
pvanhoofX-Fade, but of course, tumbler is XFCE software that we are adapting and preparing to be useful on Maemo. So Maemo audience should realize that we cooperate sometimes with xfce ;)23:15
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pvanhoofThat's a good thing :)23:16
pvanhoofBut thanks for taking care23:16
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* timeless_mbp knifes andre__ 23:21
andre__timeless_mbp, eh?23:21
timeless_mbpdon't defend ui designers23:21
timeless_mbpit's bad for your health23:21
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andre__timeless_mbp, don't file duplicates23:22
timeless_mbpandre__: not a duplicate23:22
andre__then explain why23:22
timeless_mbpbecause it's a different widget23:22
timeless_mbpand it's screwed *differently*23:23
timeless_mbpand i want this person to suffer death by a thousand papercuts23:23
SpeedEviltimeless: what if htey have a paperless office?23:23
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: we use postits23:23
anideltimeless.. woah man.. I missed the bug..23:23
andre__timeless_mbp, file an internal ticket23:23
timeless_mbpbugs should be discussed in the public eye23:24
Corsacqwerty12_N810: btw, not sure if you saw it23:24
andre__yeah. discussed.23:24
timeless_mbpif he can't defend himself publicly23:24
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timeless_mbpthen he loses23:24
andre__so have arguments.23:24
* GeneralAntilles chuckles at andre__'s plight.23:25
qwerty12_N810Thanks, Corsac23:25
timeless_mbpCorsac: seriously23:25
timeless_mbpin that case, you're best served by writing your own widget23:26
timeless_mbpi'll probably write one in zenity in a bit23:26
timeless_mbponce i figure out the details23:26
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: libprofile has headers23:26
timeless_mbpoh, i'm not saying it's undocumented23:26
timeless_mbpjust that i'd have to read something23:26
timeless_mbpsince it isn't my area :)23:26
qwerty12_N810Ah :)23:27
timeless_mbpCorsac: the ui team is very opinionated23:27
timeless_mbpand refuses to change anything23:27
Flandryis uploading to extras the first step of getting public input23:27
javispedroqwerty12_N810: having headers is only the first step ;)23:27
timeless_mbpthe best you can do is show that they're wrong23:27
timeless_mbpand the best way to do that is have a popular addon that everyone uses23:27
javispedrohaving doxygenated headers would be step 2 ;)23:27
Flandryor should i share a deb until i think it's ready23:27
qwerty12_N810javispedro: They appear to be...23:27
qwerty12_N810Detailed comments can be found in 'em23:27
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javispedrocool. then the generated docs must be avail somewhere in SDK docs.23:28
timeless_mbpCorsac: fwiw /etc/profiled/ is pretty easy to deal w/23:28
andre__timeless_mbp, you can of course import the ticket yourself if you want. see
timeless_mbpandre__: i don't care about cloning to internal23:28
timeless_mbpwhat matters is the public bug23:28
andre__timeless_mbp,  then enjoy getting stuff continually wontfix'ed. as easy as that23:29
qwerty12_N810Meanwhile, Nokia should make a header detailing Hardcoding values is not good for my health...23:29
timeless_mbpandre__: if you don't want to clone the bug, don't touch it <PERIOD>23:29
timeless_mbpdon't touch = don't change the resolution23:29
andre__that's not how it works23:29
timeless_mbpif the ui owner wants to wontfix it, they have to crawl out from behind their shelter23:29
timeless_mbpno hiding23:29
andre__not at all.23:29
timeless_mbpandre__: you don't want to be where you are. stay out of the middle.23:30
GeneralAntillesHooray for broken processes.23:30
timeless_mbpask quim to drag their asses into the public23:31
andre__timeless_mbp, well, done that to quim and tero at the summit23:31
timeless_mbpthey're public figures, they presented themselves at maemo summit23:31
Corsactimeless_mbp: does this sound like something I can code using only scratchbox?23:31
anidela broken process can be fixed.. if both sides would stick to the glue23:31
andre__timeless_mbp, feel free to do the same23:31
GeneralAntillesNokia turned the bugmaster position into a giant bandaid.23:31
timeless_mbpCorsac: well23:31
timeless_mbpdepends on whether or note the profiled thing runs in scratchbox23:31
timeless_mbpi could write the zenity thing based on just the two files from /etc/profiled/23:32
anidelmaybe it just didn't scale well23:32
andre__GeneralAntilles, I disagree23:32
pupnik_can mfe be integrated into the rest of n900 mail?23:32
andre__only to be clear, it's not that i want to keep the current state. but i repeat myself anyway...23:32
timeless_mbppupnik_: eh?23:32
X-Fadepupnik_: it is just a provider in the regular mail client23:32
GeneralAntillesandre__, and, yet, #630 really hasn't gotten all that much better.23:33
andre__GeneralAntilles, will help?23:33
GeneralAntillesandre__, I doubt it.23:33
andre__so it's better to keep the code internal?23:33
andre__like before?23:33
GeneralAntillesFollowing CVS commits aint the same thing as actually having the responsible parties respond to bugs.23:34
andre__git commits ;-))23:34
GeneralAntillesThe code is a separate issue.23:34
andre__i think it's related23:34
timeless_mbpand not accepting patches means that the fact there's a readable VCS doesn't make it communal23:34
timeless_mbp(note: the browser is no better here, i'm not claiming we are)23:34
GeneralAntillesAll I see these days is you forwarding shit back and forth.23:34
GeneralAntillesIt's a really bad game of telephone.23:35
andre__of course i want to check out that code, and commit my oneliner patch myself after a review in bugs.maemo.org23:35
timeless_mbpCorsac: so...23:35
anidelQuim's also doing the same nowadays, but it can produce the shit while andre can't23:35
GeneralAntillesThat's resulting in a lot of discouraged bug reporters thanks to Nokia's broken process.23:35
timeless_mbpwhat do you have in terms of files23:35
timeless_mbpi think you want to have:23:35
andre__GeneralAntilles, yeah, currently it is bad. that's totally true.23:36
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But reporting a bug doesn't imply that it gets fixed the way you want.23:36
timeless_mbp  /etc/profield/ /etc/profiled/99.custom.ini /etc/systemui/systemui.xml23:36
andre__GeneralAntilles, but I also see more nokians commenting in bugs.maemo.org23:36
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, sure, but you should at least get a reasonable response.23:36
andre__in the last weeks. definitely.23:36
GeneralAntillesNot, "Spec. STFU."23:36
anidelx-fade but usually nokia has his own way of seeing things.. and they won't change it that easily23:36
andre__that's generalizing23:36
andre__and you know that...23:36
anidelx-fate you've got to push hard...23:36
X-FadeWhich means we need to fix another problem.23:37
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GeneralAntillesPeople aren't likely to continue filing bugs if they keep getting poor responses.23:37
* javispedro can't resist the urge and registers23:37
X-FadeAnd that is how the spec gets specified.23:37
GeneralAntillesJust like people aren't going to keep submitting patches. . . .23:37
timeless_mbpCorsac: i suspect those files and a couple of others referenced by them should be all you'd need to write something23:37
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: please! :)23:37
* timeless_mbp grumbles23:37
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Not saying that is easy ;)23:38
X-FadeBut at least that should be our goal.23:38
GeneralAntillesThe process is broken and facilitating it isn't helping progress to fix it.23:38
timeless_mbpCorsac: do you have those files?23:38
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timeless_mbpif not, someone can fix that for oyu23:38
anidelhow do we want to fix it?23:38
infobottimeless_mbp meant: if not, someone can fix that for you23:38
GeneralAntillesWe really need to look at Bugzilla report cards again.23:38
GeneralAntillesAt least we'll have some numbers to throw at them then.23:38
Corsactimeless_mbp: I'm starting my vm and scratchbox23:39
andre__GeneralAntilles, and completely abandoning the process tomorrow is impossible. but that's what i read here between the lines23:39
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andre__(not just telling you though...)23:39
GeneralAntillesandre__, sure, but progress has been so slow it's barely noticeable.23:39
GeneralAntillesI get that big ships turn slow23:39
timeless_mbpandre__: where does a normal human go to file bugs about foreca?23:39
GeneralAntillesbut my fear is that it may be turning too slowly for it to matter.23:39
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: A normal human uses OMWeather23:40
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: what, you don't want your battery to die w/in a couple of hours?23:40
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: That is at least the way of doing it ;)23:40
* timeless_mbp is shocked23:40
andre__timeless_mbp, don't know. maintainer email address? :-/23:40
andre__there's not even a feedback channel internally i think....23:40
timeless_mbpi think there's a bucket in the bugzilla internally23:41
Corsactimeless_mbp: hmhm, should I install something specific in scratchbox?23:41
timeless_mbpCorsac: dunno23:41
* GeneralAntilles like to file some bugs on Ovi Maps but I think my head would explode if I started trying to parse them.23:41
timeless_mbpi don't use scratchbox23:41
Corsac(i'm in the sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL target, but…)23:41
timeless_mbpi stick to mer23:41
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qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: Ovi Maps is a bug...23:41
timeless_mbpCorsac: hold on23:41
anidelovi maps is a free commercial product23:42
timeless_mbposso-systemui-powermenukey has the xml file23:42
tbf...ovi maps is web 2.0 kids (gate5) trying to build a desktop app23:42
timeless_mbpanidel: odd statement23:42
GeneralAntillesOnly because they know it's shit.23:42
javispedroToday I've been tempted again by the capacitive side of the force.23:42
timeless_mbptbf: web 2.0?23:42
* timeless_mbp objects23:42
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, jerk23:42
GeneralAntillesThey'll charge for it as soon as they think they can get away with it without having a class action suit.23:42
* qwerty12_N810 finds the Location Widget more useful...23:42
anideltimeless: meaning they do whatever they want with it, the way they like it.. perhaps they listen to whoever they want.23:42
timeless_mbpthe other two files are from:23:42
timeless_mbpand maemo-ringtones-mr023:42
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, about 80% of the time Ovi stops showing the red location dot after about 5 minutes.23:43
tbftimeless_mbp: gate5 did plazes before the got bought, and plazes definitely is one of those web 2.0 toys23:43
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: ah, but have you had your red dot go to the north pole?23:43
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* timeless_mbp has23:43
* timeless_mbp has pictures too23:43
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I used a G2 at FLS. Hated it.23:43
ifreqOvi :(23:43
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: btw, it's Nokia Maps, not Ovi Maps23:43
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, yo, dude, did you put me on ignore or something?23:43
timeless_mbpthe branding is different :)23:43
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, most of the time I can't see it, so it could very well be there.23:44
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, wut?23:44
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, twice I highlight you, twice you ignore me, bitch23:44
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, is it?
Corsactimeless_mbp: mpf, profile-data isnt available here23:44
anidelindeed he is23:44
crashanddie/ignore --total GeneralAntilles23:44
qwerty12_N810Corsac: nokia-binaries repo23:44
Corsacha, that's why23:44
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: the app internally says Nokia Maps23:44
Corsachmhm, weird, I though I had it setup23:44
timeless_mbpand the splash screen clearly says it23:44
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I don't want to talk to yo dumb ass.23:45
timeless_mbpi was told Ovi Maps is the next version23:45
javispedroGeneralAntilles: At least what they say about the sensitiviness is true. However, I still prefer the ability to tap the screen with your average ballpoint pen cap.23:45
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, Unknown arg 'GeneralAntilles' ignored :(23:45
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, mine says "Maps"23:45
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: when you tap it, the splash screen doesn't say  Nokia Maps?23:45
crashanddietimeless_mbp, is that before or after the 20s screen lag?23:45
tbftimeless_mbp: the splash only says "Maps", "Karten", ...23:45
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, About says "Ovi Maps 1.00" the splash screen says "Maps"23:45
timeless_mbpi've used quite a few, they all say Nokia Maps in the splash screen23:45
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: during23:45
anidelit always says Maps to e23:46
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, older build?23:46
anidelthe about says: Ovi Maps 1.0023:46
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: bad memory?23:46
* timeless_mbp shrugs23:46
timeless_mbpok, i'll change it23:46
timeless_mbpi could have sworn it said Nokia Maps23:47
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, Maps was Nokia Maps prior to 2.0 on S60, but 3.0 is Ovi Maps.23:47
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anidelyou could, but it doesn't :)23:47
GeneralAntillesEr, 2.0 and prior.23:47
timeless_mbpthe package names are nokia-maps-*23:47
timeless_mbpthat little i'm certain of23:47
GeneralAntillesIt's been named both on S60.23:47
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GeneralAntillesSo I wouldn't be surprised if the same holds true for Maemo.23:47
GeneralAntillesAlthough on 41-10 it's definitely Ovi Maps.23:48
GeneralAntillesSo, we're both right.23:48
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anidelcan we forse the screenshot not to be taken for terminal?23:48
anidelthe one loaded before the terminal is actually fully loaded?23:48
anideldifferent matter23:48
anidelwhen it starts23:48
anidelwhen it shows  i think it's loaded23:49
anideland start typing23:49
anideland the address book appears23:49
andre__anidel, file a bug. screenshot faking so sucks...23:49
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: what do you get for descriptions of nokia-maps-ui and nokiamaps-navigation-provider?23:49
GeneralAntillesYeah, the screenshot faking is just awful.23:49
anidelandre, will don't worry.. just looking for a workaround23:49
andre__just introduces new issues. already bitched internally... sigh23:49
timeless_mbpanidel: if they did it right, there's a .desktop flag for it23:50
timeless_mbpif not, well..., don't be surprised :)23:50
anidelcan't they just grab the "focus" as soon as the title is shown?23:50
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, Nokia Maps23:50
anidela .desktop flag?23:50
GeneralAntillesGawd, JavaScript.23:50
timeless_mbpanidel: the menus are controlled by .desktop files23:50
anidelhey lardman23:50
timeless_mbpthey're basically .ini files23:50
anidelah okay23:51
timeless_mbpwhich can specify random hints to launchers23:51
GeneralAntillesGPS navigation seems like the last thing you'd want to do in js.23:51
GeneralAntillesWhat is this, webOS?23:51
timeless_mbpso the right place to let people override it is there23:51
timeless_mbpnote that i don't work with those guys23:51
timeless_mbpso i don't know if they did the right thing23:51
timeless_mbpand i certainly don't have any faith23:51
Corsactimeless_mbp: thanks, I could install profile-data so I have an example profile23:51
timeless_mbpbut sometimes they surprise me23:51
timeless_mbpCorsac: ok, that's a start23:52
GeneralAntillesNokia: Doing it Wrong®23:52
anidelbut you still love'em.. as you're here on this platform still23:52
timeless_mbpthe other file can be pilfered from someone23:52
timeless_mbpor the relevant bits extracted23:52
anidelga: but together...shake hands23:52
timeless_mbpi think it's basically a dbus service/method call23:52
timeless_mbppersonally, i'd probably just add some stuff to the .xml file23:52
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timeless_mbpi think the systemui.xml file was similar in maemo423:52
GAN900anidel, connecting pedophiles.23:52
javispedroOvi Maps is ... JS ...  ? :P *sigh*23:52
timeless_mbpso you can probably find examples of previous hacks23:52
anidelgan900 :p23:52
timeless_mbpjavispedro: it gets better23:52
anideljavispedro: Ovi Maps is Just Shit, yes...23:53
timeless_mbprumor has it they have a stub (or perhaps real?) impl of the plugin in js :)23:53
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anidelanyway.. lots of crap and shit.. but it's not google or apple and that's fine with me so far.23:54
Corsactimeless_mbp: doesn't look like an xml file :)23:54
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javispedroso they can't be arsed to make a proper mozilla+linux plugin even when they release a mozilla+linux product.23:54
timeless_mbpCorsac: no, it's an ini file23:54
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timeless_mbpjavispedro: oh, they're shipping a npapi plugin, but it uses an obsolete api23:54
timeless_mbpone that doesn't exist in gecko 1.9.223:55
timeless_mbpwhich um... well, let's just say.. the browser team was ... overjoyed ...23:55
javispedro... with joy.23:55
timeless_mbpno browser updates until someone cleans up their mess23:55
lbtSo, tonight I got into a huge traffic jam and used ovi maps to get me out..... conclusion? Ovi maps are fucking useless and I want an iPhone.23:55
javispedrohere's to another year of hoping a garmin map viewer software gets to "usable" state.23:55
timeless_mbppersonally, i'm considering trying to get the gps gateway in microb working23:56
timeless_mbpso i can use google maps23:56
qwerty12_N810There you have it: Ovi Maps sucks so badly that a full-time Debian user wants an iPhone :)23:56
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timeless_mbpCorsac: anyway... you'll find an systemui.xml file somewhere23:56
lbtI came to the conclusion that if I'd spent my own money on the N900 I would have been so pissed I'd have taken it back23:56
javispedroqwerty12_N810: do us a favour and try to run navicore ;)23:56
timeless_mbptalks about it a lot23:56
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anidellbt: some friend drove from north london to south west london (my place).. they were lost two three times due to navigation on the iphone23:57
anideltoo slow to tell them where and when to turn :)23:57
qwerty12_N810javispedro: It's gonna check for the sysfs entries for the N800's WiFi, at least23:57
lbtit was totally unusable from a UI PoV ... (my wife was using it)23:58
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lbtthe GPS update seemed to happen every 10 mins or so23:58
anidellbt: agreed23:58
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lbtseriously crap23:58
lbtwe spent an hour and a half totally lost within 15 miles of home23:58
javispedroqwerty12_N810 (in Bruce Wayne's voice): That wouldn't stop a man like you, now would it?23:58
qwerty12_N810lbt: I cringe when using it inside my house...23:58
anidellbt: I suppose the gps was losing signal and reverting to network positioning23:58
lbt(in the dark on country lanes)23:58's horrible..can't wait for maemomapper23:59
timeless_mbplbt: awesome23:59
qwerty12_N810javispedro: It would, when I'm having fun with the joys of hildon-desktop :)23:59

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