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| ccooke | pupnik: There you go. | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
| crashanddie | o/ ccooke | 00:10 |
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| crashanddie | pupnik, what's with the landscape? | 00:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ccooke: I can't "thank" your post :\ | 00:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah, there we have it | 00:12 |
| ccooke | qwerty12_N810: oh? Odd. | 00:12 |
| JackBeSlow | There is an app I want to create for the n900. However I don't have one yet and I would prefer not to wait to get started on the dev work. Would you suggest that I create it for the earlier devices (I have a 770) or just create the whole thing in scratchbox. The thing is I wanted to use some of the new tools available in maemo 5... | 00:13 |
| ccooke | JackBeSlow: for that, I'd suggest scratchbox as the best option | 00:13 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | JackBeSlow: The Maemo 5 SDK is actually pretty decent | 00:13 |
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| JackBeSlow | Figured that, now I have to figure out how to setup the GUI part of scratchbox. and install the new SDK | 00:14 |
| * w00t makes impatient noises | 00:14 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | You can, optionally, get things like the web browser installed | 00:14 |
| JackBeSlow | Ok, thanks | 00:14 |
| RST38h | ok, first attempt at optification... | 00:14 |
| w00t | i'm considering getting an 810 while i want for the 900 to be released to sate my gadget lust | 00:14 |
| ccooke | The n810 is still a great device. | 00:15 |
| w00t | oh, i've no doubt | 00:15 |
| w00t | though i wouldn't have a lot of use for it | 00:15 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Maemo 5 SDK: The poor man's N900 | 00:16 |
| ccooke | ... although I admit that I've not touched mine since day 2 of the Summit | 00:16 |
| w00t | apart from tinkering and playing | 00:16 |
| w00t | yeah, that's exactly what will happen once my order ships.. it's just a matter of when >:( | 00:16 |
| JackBeSlow | w00t, but the n900 can do pretty much everything the n810 can, so it gets obsolete quick. | 00:16 |
| ccooke | I am quite tempted to try to cannibalise mine | 00:16 |
| w00t | ^ | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: for/ | 00:17 |
| Stskeeps | except for usb otg | 00:17 |
| JackBeSlow | I mean you only have about a month or two to wait.. | 00:17 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: overrated anyway | 00:17 |
| javispedro | sigh. Mer = Poor man's Maemo for tmoers. | 00:17 |
| w00t | JackBeSlow: hahaha | 00:17 |
| w00t | ha. | 00:17 |
| w00t | you haven't seen me over the past month | 00:17 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: casemod. Steampunk. Would probably take me a year or two, but it'd be fun. | 00:17 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hiya, javispedro | 00:17 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 00:17 |
| javispedro | hi qwerty12_N810 | 00:17 |
| zash | ccooke: :O | 00:17 |
| w00t | I've been spending every waking moment scouring the internet for any news, videos, photos, reviews, or talk about the n900 | 00:17 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Turned into a skeleton, yet? :p | 00:17 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: nice brass case? | 00:17 |
| javispedro | Mostly. I am crying. | 00:18 |
| w00t | and hyperventilating each time it looks like it'll ship later | 00:18 |
| w00t | ;p | 00:18 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: a little wood, too | 00:18 |
| javispedro | (cutting onions lol) | 00:18 |
| JackBeSlow | Dude I get it, I have a 770 but the last month I have been scouring the web for every new mention of the n900, new apps, different uses, problems, dimensions etc. | 00:18 |
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| * ccooke wonders when Shapeways will be able to print brass... | 00:18 | |
| w00t | :-) | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: I have a tip for that. | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: they can do metal | 00:18 |
| JackBeSlow | Just to satiate my gadget lust until mine arrives. | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: look at some of the recent options | 00:18 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: I know :-) | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Close your eyes while cutting | 00:19 |
| ccooke | OOh, they do have bronze now! | 00:19 |
| ccooke | that would do the job | 00:19 |
| javispedro | and hope for the best! | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: It means that the spray of onion juice as you cut doesn't go in your eyes. | 00:19 |
| zash | w00t: put links you find on a page with ads and make millions from me! | 00:19 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: poor man's maemo.. i like that | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: no - prepare the onion, set the knife up to cut, then close your eyes, and slice the rest of the onion carefully with your eyes shut. | 00:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | w00t: You can have pictures of me using mine, if you wish ;P | 00:20 |
| * Stskeeps comes from poor family | 00:20 | |
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| lbt | w00t: http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE59M2RJ20091023?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews | 00:20 |
| w00t | qwerty12_N810: i'm going to cry myself to sleep. | 00:20 |
| w00t | lbt: old, old, old, *old* news | 00:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | :p | 00:21 |
| w00t | saw that less than 30 minutes after it was posted | 00:21 |
| w00t | (and cried.) | 00:21 |
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| lbt | w00t: I know... I'm just being mean | 00:21 |
| MrGoose | wasnt that because nokia decided to fix some problems? | 00:21 |
| w00t | as far as I know, yes | 00:21 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: pfft. no need to downmarket it | 00:22 |
| w00t | ;p | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | They're porting an OS designed for the resolution and CPU speed to it. | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Windows 95. | 00:22 |
| MrGoose | well then rest assured that you will have a few less reasons to bitch once you get it :) | 00:22 |
| w00t | while I'm fine with the delay (despite all my prior talk), trust me, I'd not be bitching | 00:22 |
| w00t | I'm fine with things going wrong, myself, because it gives me something to tinker with | 00:23 |
| w00t | I do understand I'm certainly in the minority though :p | 00:23 |
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| Dantonic | Hello | 00:24 |
| w00t | hi Dantonic | 00:24 |
| Dantonic | w00t w00t! | 00:24 |
| w00t | that's my name, don't wear it out :-) | 00:24 |
| Dantonic | :P | 00:24 |
| Dantonic | how's it going? | 00:25 |
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| Dantonic | do you have an N900? | 00:25 |
| w00t | :( | 00:25 |
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| Dantonic | :*( | 00:25 |
| w00t | we were just discussing that | 00:25 |
| Dantonic | oh | 00:25 |
| MrGoose | w00t: Oh Im not insulting you. Im just assuming that everyone bitches afterwards | 00:25 |
| w00t | MrGoose: hehe, yeah. I know how it'd be.. | 00:26 |
| Dantonic | MrGoose do you have one? | 00:26 |
| MrGoose | Dantonic: no and I probably wont get one | 00:26 |
| Dantonic | oh | 00:26 |
| MrGoose | as tempting as it is | 00:26 |
| Dantonic | I C | 00:26 |
| ccooke | Dantonic: Some of us have them, but all of those are pre-release | 00:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | MrGoose: Afterwards? Check some of the posts from people who got a loaned one at the Summit... | 00:26 |
| Dantonic | ya I know | 00:26 |
| w00t | qwerty12_N810: hahah | 00:26 |
| lbt | is there a maemo vpn manager? One that will setup an ssh vpn | 00:26 |
| w00t | qwerty12_N810: i've not actually seen too much of that.. | 00:27 |
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| MrGoose | because I have too many gadgets right now | 00:27 |
| w00t | perhaps i've been looking in the wrong place | 00:27 |
| Dantonic | I need one asap! the wait is wearing me out! | 00:27 |
| w00t | Dantonic: yeah, I'd say that sums a lot of people up :p | 00:28 |
| w00t | but, patience | 00:28 |
| w00t | it can only get more awesome while we wait | 00:28 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Except for the Summit-goers, and some others... | 00:28 |
| Dantonic | hehe yeah it'd be great if it came out in 2 weeks with portrait mode | 00:28 |
| Dantonic | although they said by christmas time right? | 00:28 |
| w00t | yes | 00:28 |
| w00t | (I think.) | 00:28 |
| Dantonic | I think qgil said that | 00:29 |
| w00t | I really, really doubt there will be any drastic change (like portrait mode) before launch | 00:29 |
| Dantonic | yeah I know | 00:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Portrait mode in the browser | 00:29 |
| w00t | it would require too much additional testing time, let alone anything else | 00:29 |
| Dantonic | just dreaming | 00:29 |
| dmj7261 | easter egg! | 00:29 |
| Dantonic | :) | 00:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Bug the developer of your favourite app if you wish to see it elsewhere. | 00:30 |
| w00t | qwerty12_N810: but, but, i want portrait mode in my video player | 00:30 |
| w00t | :P | 00:30 |
| Dantonic | tomorrow they announce Project Black? anyone heard anything else about it? | 00:30 |
| SpeedEvil | dmj7261: the case is really made form chocolate | 00:30 |
| Dantonic | did they say the 25th? | 00:30 |
| Dantonic | or Monday idk | 00:31 |
| Dantonic | wonder what that'll be | 00:31 |
| SpeedEvil | the 26th | 00:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Monday that is. | 00:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | w00t: Ah... I've read that is unsupported, with no plans on changing that... | 00:31 |
| Dantonic | ya | 00:31 |
| Dantonic | are you guys in the US? | 00:32 |
| Dantonic | any of you? | 00:32 |
| dmj7261 | I am | 00:32 |
| w00t | qwerty12_N810: yeah, I was joking | 00:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Mediabox guy got his app to rotate; video did not :) | 00:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah, sorry :) | 00:32 |
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| Dantonic | dmj7261, do you have tmobile currently? | 00:32 |
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| dmj7261 | no, verizon at the moment | 00:32 |
| Dantonic | are you getting N900+tmobile soon? | 00:33 |
| dmj7261 | which has shit phone selection | 00:33 |
| toggles_1 | Dantonic: i did up until a few months back | 00:33 |
| dmj7261 | I hope so. | 00:33 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Dantonic: I'm using it on T-Mobile UK... | 00:33 |
| dmj7261 | I'm not sure whether I'm going to get a data plan or not though | 00:34 |
| Dantonic | well I'm on Tmobile US... I wonder when N900 will come out for sale with them | 00:34 |
| Dantonic | hopeuflly we find out in 2 days | 00:34 |
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| w00t | qwerty12_N810: personally I don't think portrait mode has a lot of use, I think that (as usual) people like to complain :-) | 00:34 |
| dmj7261 | One would be nice, but I have wifi in almost any building I'm likely to be in 80-90% of the time | 00:34 |
| pupnik_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QkKUPiQ_o <<<< Carl Craig - My Machines (genius) | 00:34 |
| Dantonic | I already have a data plan and tether to the N800 | 00:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | w00t: I agree wholly with that. In the few apps that do support it, I've only used it a few times :) | 00:35 |
| dmj7261 | It would mostly be useful on long car rides and at restaurants during university breaks. | 00:35 |
| Dantonic | I use the 3g often, especially when I'm driving... lol that's bad | 00:36 |
| Dantonic | Don't Drive and Browse! | 00:36 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Dantonic's Twitter: "yeh ima bout 2 crash kthxbye" | 00:37 |
| Dantonic | I have the N800 mounted on my left right next to the steering wheel, so I Don't have to take my hand off of the wheel to touch it! | 00:37 |
| Dantonic | so in essence I'm always aware... somewhat | 00:37 |
| Dantonic | with periferal vision if I'm looking at the device I can still see the road or cars breaking | 00:37 |
| Dantonic | no acidents yet | 00:37 |
| * Dantonic crosses fingers | 00:37 | |
| Dantonic | qwerty12_N810, you konw I've never used twitter | 00:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I didn't know. What, you think I *ahem* stalk you? | 00:39 |
| Dantonic | hey stupid question about Diablo. How do you change the system's font size? or font type for that matter? is that possible? | 00:39 |
| Dantonic | lol | 00:39 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Dantonic: Edit the theme's gtkrc and matchbox.xml and change the sizes to your heart's content | 00:40 |
| Dantonic | * Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connect | 00:40 |
| Dantonic | what does that mean? are you trying to hack me qwerty12_N810 ? | 00:40 |
| w00t | no | 00:40 |
| Dantonic | ;) | 00:40 |
| qwerty12_N810 | It means w00t is | 00:40 |
| Dantonic | ah | 00:40 |
| w00t | that's a freenode utility, nothing to be concerned about | 00:40 |
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| Dantonic | sure w00t I believe you | 00:41 |
| Dantonic | ... | 00:41 |
| w00t | http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#freenodeconnect <-- :p | 00:41 |
| Dantonic | oh I was kidding thanks tho | 00:41 |
| JackBeSlow | Well if you can get hacked through your irc connection... you sorta deserve it. | 00:41 |
| dmj7261 | irc as root shell? | 00:42 |
| Dantonic | you know was just trying to figure out how to use openvpn... Never used it before not even sure about what it does exactly... | 00:42 |
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| bmidgley2 | hey, my homebrew linux wifi access point works in every way except the n810 can't get https pages through it | 00:43 |
| bmidgley2 | very strange | 00:43 |
| * javispedro likees Windows 95 theme but would prefer Windows 3.11 theme. More finger friendly. | 00:43 | |
| bmidgley2 | anyone seen this kind of misbehaving? | 00:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | bmidgley: are you forwarding http? | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | bmidgley: or just all tcp/ip | 00:44 |
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| Dantonic | "<qwerty12_N810> Dantonic: Edit the theme's gtkrc and matchbox.xml and change the sizes to your heart's content" where are these located? | 00:45 |
| * qwerty12_N810 forces javispedro to run Microsoft Bob on his tablet | 00:45 | |
| dmj7261 | now with more clippy! | 00:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Dantonic: /usr/share/themes/<theme>/gtk-2.0/ (IIRC) | 00:45 |
| Dantonic | kk ty | 00:46 |
| qwerty12_N810 | <theme> being, obviously, the theme you wish to modify | 00:46 |
| bmidgley2 | SpeedEvil, no http proxy or anything, just plain NAT for all network access | 00:46 |
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| Dantonic | hey what's the command in linux to search for a file or directory in the system? | 00:46 |
| bmidgley2 | Dantonic locate | 00:46 |
| Dantonic | ie if I wanted to search for those files? | 00:46 |
| Dantonic | oh | 00:46 |
| dmj7261 | grep? | 00:47 |
| xnt14 | hmm, why doesn't this work? probably something stupid...any ideas? http://xceleo.org/.db/core.js | 00:47 |
| zash | dmj7261: yes, grep /dev/sd* ! it's awesome | 00:47 |
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| pupnik_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QkKUPiQ_o&fmt=18 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is it! this ! haaahahaha hahahahahaha | 00:47 |
| pupnik_ | tyurn it upppppppppppppp | 00:47 |
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| zash | Dantonic: also, there is find, more powerful but more time consuming | 00:48 |
| Dantonic | ok thanks | 00:48 |
| xnt14 | zash, umm, that looks dangerous lol | 00:48 |
| xnt14 | directly grepping the sd* block dev files? | 00:48 |
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| xnt14 | Dantonic, how about locate? | 00:49 |
| zash | xnt14: unless you run it as root it shouldn't be dangerous | 00:49 |
| xnt14 | zash, oh ok lol | 00:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Ok - I've found the maemo-eats posts on flickr. | 00:49 |
| zash | xnt14: with some luck you can find deleted files that way | 00:49 |
| xnt14 | will that work on ext4? | 00:50 |
| SpeedEvil | now where is the optical calorie recognition and integration into a diet planner? | 00:50 |
| Dantonic | so trying to leafpad gtkrc, I get process 6857: D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open etc etc... | 00:50 |
| xnt14 | musicbot: KOTOKO: Shooting Star | 00:51 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Dantonic: Prefix "leafpad" with "run-standalone.sh" | 00:52 |
| Dantonic | qwerty12_N810, not sure what that means you mean just enter the command "run-standalone.sh leafpad gtkrc" | 00:53 |
| Dantonic | ? | 00:53 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Erm, yeah | 00:53 |
| Dantonic | ok just making sure | 00:53 |
| Dantonic | I suck at linux sorry | 00:53 |
| Dantonic | so what does that do? | 00:53 |
| crashanddie | interesting, R&D position for mobile apps at Nokia Calif | 00:53 |
| * qwerty12_N810 uses Windows... | 00:53 | |
| xnt14 | Linux & BSD > Windows XP, Vista, 7 | 00:54 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Dantonic: In essence, allows you to run leafpad as root :-) | 00:54 |
| Dantonic | oh | 00:54 |
| Dantonic | well if I had done sudo gainroot that is not the same? | 00:55 |
| Synergy6 | Random item A > Random item B | 00:56 |
| Synergy6 | I'm so 1337 | 00:56 |
| xnt14 | Dantonic, It still needs access to hildon-desktop etc, I may be wrong, qwerty is the master of maemo internals xD | 00:56 |
| Dantonic | all right thanks | 00:56 |
| xnt14 | np ;) | 00:56 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Dantonic: Oh, I phrased that badly... You need to find a way of being root first (sudo gainroot) but run-standalone.sh will let you run leafpad as root (you saw what happens when you tried w/out it) | 00:57 |
| Dantonic | I see | 00:57 |
| Dantonic | ya I was already root when I tried the first time... | 00:57 |
| Dantonic | so although I was root I had to force leafpad to run as root | 00:58 |
| Dantonic | so I can use run-standalone.sh with any other program? | 00:58 |
| Dantonic | hmm lots of Osso font options... | 00:59 |
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| Dantonic | SystemFont, EmpSystemFont TItleFont ButtonFont SmallFont LargeFont :P | 01:00 |
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| aSIMULAtur | :) | 01:05 |
| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-rvf6k61EU&fmt=18 - Psykosonik - I am God | 01:05 |
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| sin18 | does anyone know the correct/new url format for google street (maemo mapper) ? | 01:07 |
| crashanddie | pupnik, lol at HD video for a song | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | HD video can add lots to certain songs. | 01:10 |
| pupnik | hno song is cheesy | 01:14 |
| pupnik | but imo | 01:14 |
| pupnik | iunique | 01:14 |
| pupnik | and thiughtful | 01:14 |
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| reklama | http://action.metaffiliation.com/suivi.php?mclic=S42665516A5D131 | 01:16 |
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| Flandry | how do i escape echo '$@' in a bash script so that the output still contains $@? | 01:42 |
| crashanddie | \$@ | 01:43 |
| Flandry | doesn't work | 01:43 |
| crashanddie | show code | 01:43 |
| Flandry | echo 'exec "/opt/games/uqm" "--contentdir=/opt/share/games/uqm" "\$@"' >> ./debian/uqm/usr/games/uqm | 01:44 |
| crashanddie | echo 'exec "/opt/games/uqm" "--contentdir=/opt/share/games/uqm" "\$@"' | 01:45 |
| crashanddie | shite | 01:45 |
| crashanddie | echo 'exec "/opt/games/uqm" "--contentdir=/opt/share/games/uqm" "$@"' <-- works for me | 01:46 |
| zash | echo 'echo "\$@" ' | sh | 01:46 |
| Flandry | ah | 01:46 |
| crashanddie | zash, the important bit is that he already has '' around the "" | 01:46 |
| Flandry | i tried with and without the backslash | 01:47 |
| Flandry | wtf i'll just use a file lol | 01:47 |
| crashanddie | Flandry, hang on, which shell is this using? | 01:47 |
| zash | but, how do you use $* without spaces messing things up? | 01:47 |
| Corsac | or just concatenate | 01:47 |
| Flandry | sorry, it's make | 01:47 |
| Flandry | it's in the rules file | 01:47 |
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| Corsac | echo "echo ""$""@" | 01:48 |
| Corsac | for example | 01:48 |
| Corsac | (quick and dirty) | 01:48 |
| Flandry | separate them eh | 01:48 |
| Flandry | good idea | 01:48 |
| Flandry | oh man | 01:50 |
| Flandry | doesn't that leave me with an extra echo? | 01:50 |
| crashanddie | "an extra echo"? | 01:50 |
| crashanddie | this isn't a cave mate | 01:50 |
| Flandry | ha | 01:50 |
| Flandry | oh typo | 01:50 |
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| Flandry | meh | 01:53 |
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| Flandry | there *is* an extra echo that way | 01:54 |
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| Firebird | Is there a Maemo5 qt guide somewhere? I can't get a dialog to open again after closing it :/ | 01:55 |
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| sp3000 | Flandry: $$@ in make | 02:01 |
| sp3000 | google gnu-make-dollar for ref | 02:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | A way to make the n900 reliable at high CPU clock? http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm | 02:05 |
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| Firebird | SpeedEvil, the was more of a overvoltage issue I thought | 02:09 |
| Firebird | *it | 02:10 |
| * lcuk found out the n900 is capable of dual screen operation | 02:11 | |
| tekonivel | lcuk: bliss | 02:12 |
| ccooke | lcuk: oh? | 02:12 |
| lcuk | normal RGB/x11 operation on the device screen, whilst YUV Overlay goes out over the tvout | 02:12 |
| ccooke | lcuk: oh, lovely! | 02:12 |
| lcuk | yeah!really nicely too | 02:12 |
| ccooke | I want to see something using that! | 02:12 |
| lcuk | i did my presentation and whilst i was setting it up i alt-tabbed (ctrl-del) and liqbase carried on running | 02:13 |
| Firebird | blarg, anyone know if a click outside of a dialog box just destroys it instead of hiding it? | 02:13 |
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| lcuk | well my presentation works properly from it now | 02:13 |
| lcuk | i even managed to test more tv out stuff | 02:13 |
| lcuk | and it was my device which was at fault at the summit | 02:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Firebird: yes - it wasn't really about that - but it was an amusing (to me) link | 02:14 |
| lcuk | but it works for tv out here and worked for tv out on other projectors | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: neat! | 02:14 |
| lcuk | yeah tis | 02:14 |
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| lcuk | btw, who wrote supertux | 02:14 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders how flexible the display hardware is. | 02:14 | |
| lcuk | cos it runs so nicely | 02:15 |
| * lcuk played on the train home | 02:15 | |
| lcuk | it needs promoting if itsn ot already | 02:15 |
| Flandry | i always thought it sprang, fully formed, from Linus' head | 02:15 |
| lcuk | probably did | 02:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Contact via IRC: irc.freenode.net, #supertux - lcuk | 02:15 |
| * timeless_mbp looks for someone w/ an n900 and some time | 02:16 | |
| lcuk | thanks SpeedEvil i just went and thanked them | 02:16 |
| lcuk | how much time - timeless | 02:17 |
| Flandry | sp3000: that did the trick | 02:17 |
| Flandry | thanks | 02:17 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: what do you need? | 02:17 |
| timeless_mbp | i need two screen shots | 02:17 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders a tiny RF modulator and transmitter. | 02:17 | |
| SpeedEvil | (for TV transmission) | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | one of the sharing accounts pane (with 0 accounts) | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | one of the voip accounts pane (with 0 accounts) | 02:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh, you can't use my translation! | 02:18 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, increase speed of this hardware hack | 02:19 |
| lcuk | wireless tv out would make presentations much easier | 02:19 |
| lcuk | its a godsend to do presentations directly from device | 02:19 |
| lcuk | and felt SO good saying "you cant really do it on the low res iphone | 02:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: unfortunately, it's not legal I think for me to make them. | 02:20 |
| crashanddie | why the fuck is there no text-editor on the NIT? | 02:20 |
| lcuk | notes | 02:20 |
| crashanddie | nha | 02:20 |
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| crashanddie | I just want to create a bash script | 02:20 |
| lcuk | pygtkeditor then | 02:20 |
| lcuk | not on by default | 02:21 |
| timeless_mbp | vi | 02:21 |
| timeless_mbp | ccooke: so, is that doable? | 02:21 |
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| ccooke | timeless_mbp: I can do that tomorrow, but not today (I'm actually waiting for a call that'll probably come on VOIP ATM) | 02:24 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 02:24 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: I think I can do the sharing accounts one right now, though | 02:24 |
| timeless_mbp | my bet is getting sharing is much easier than getting voip :) | 02:24 |
| timeless_mbp | but i'll take it | 02:25 |
| timeless_mbp | someone has to be willing to offer voip | 02:25 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes virtualbox-w7-windbg | 02:25 | |
| ccooke | Actually, there isn't a "voip" account listing | 02:25 |
| timeless_mbp | (it's supposed to explain why someone else's gecko crashed) | 02:25 |
| timeless_mbp | um..., in settings | 02:25 |
| timeless_mbp | whatever is to the right of sharing | 02:26 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: I mean: It's not specifically a voip one. Account configuration is for all IM and VOIP accounts | 02:26 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah.. sure | 02:26 |
| timeless_mbp | please don't expect me to remember the official terms for things i've translated :) | 02:26 |
| timeless_mbp | which at this point is just about every string in the entire product :) | 02:26 |
| ccooke | Sorry :-) | 02:26 |
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| ccooke | ... does it have to be a screenshot, by the way? It would be a terrible waste of bandwidth, at least in the case of the sharing one. | 02:27 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 02:27 |
| timeless_mbp | ctrl-shift-p | 02:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i need two | 02:27 |
| timeless_mbp | we're taking the death by a thousand paper cuts approach to managing ui designers | 02:28 |
| timeless_mbp | they're proud of their works | 02:28 |
| timeless_mbp | i want to explain that they shouldn't be | 02:28 |
| timeless_mbp | the screen shots are .png | 02:28 |
| timeless_mbp | i think it does some compression... | 02:28 |
| crashanddie | BUT PNG IS OPEN! | 02:28 |
| crashanddie | JPEG IS THE EVIL | 02:28 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 02:29 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, we should use .3gp or something | 02:29 |
| ccooke | Okay, got screenshots of that. Gimme a sec. | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | GIF! | 02:29 |
| timeless_mbp | targa :) | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Free at last! Free at last, thank god, GIF is free at last. | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 02:29 |
| javispedro | :) | 02:29 |
| javispedro | still 256 color only. fork it! | 02:30 |
| javispedro | GIF+ "cause, we admit, GIF was cool" | 02:30 |
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| lcuk | please write all images in planar amiga LBM IFF format | 02:31 |
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| ccooke | Okay, just for this, you're getting the screenshot converted to ascii art, with metadata for lossless reconversion. In an ar archive. | 02:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | umm.. Because of an order from the United States International Trade Commission, BGA-packaged product lines and part numbers indicated here currently are not available from Freescale for import or sale in the United States prior to September 2010 : Indicated by the Icon ( ) | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | oops | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: I wish the lossy gif codec was open | 02:32 |
| lcuk | ccooke, :D sweet | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: that was funky | 02:32 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: Here you go: http://earth.gkhs.net/ccooke/Screenshot-20091025-002813.png | 02:33 |
| timeless_mbp | thanks | 02:34 |
| timeless_mbp | can someone please get me the pair? | 02:34 |
| timeless_mbp | ccooke: for the record: en-us or en-gb? | 02:34 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: let me know if you haven't got the other tomorrow. | 02:34 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: Should be GB | 02:35 |
| ccooke | ah, yes. "English (UK)" | 02:35 |
| lcuk | timeless, got you the pair | 02:36 |
| timeless_mbp | hit me :) | 02:36 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: heh http://membled.com/work/apps/lossy_png/ | 02:36 |
| javispedro | lossy zlib :P | 02:36 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/Screenshot-20091025-003313.png | 02:37 |
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| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/Screenshot-20091025-003249.png | 02:37 |
| lcuk | oooh size of the buttons changes | 02:37 |
| lcuk | i thought dialogs were standard | 02:37 |
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| lcuk | timeless, those ok for you | 02:45 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: I hadn't seen that before | 02:46 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: intersting | 02:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: thanks | 02:52 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: isn't that pair of dialogs impressive? | 02:52 |
| lcuk | i wouldnt have noticed until the pics are side by side | 02:53 |
| lcuk | i suppose because of the differing text you had to consider translation differently too | 02:53 |
| timeless_mbp | how many bugs can you spot? | 02:53 |
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| lcuk | depends what you term by bugs - inconsistencies 3 | 02:56 |
| timeless_mbp | list please: | 02:56 |
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| lcuk | size of button changes - that was immediate | 02:56 |
| timeless_mbp | in fact, if you can name all 3, you're welcome to file the bug | 02:56 |
| lcuk | location of the No accounts created | 02:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | death by a thousand *distributed* papercuts :) | 02:57 |
| lcuk | formatting differences of the same message | 02:57 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, you collected them all. here's your cookie: | 02:57 |
| timeless_mbp | https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Settings%20and%20Maintenance | 02:57 |
| lcuk | lol | 02:57 |
| timeless_mbp | actually, i think you missed one | 02:57 |
| timeless_mbp | lemme check | 02:57 |
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| lcuk | height of the dialog | 02:57 |
| lcuk | but that is based on content | 02:57 |
| timeless_mbp | correct | 02:57 |
| lcuk | so that might actually change | 02:57 |
| lcuk | that is context specific | 02:58 |
| timeless_mbp | it's still absolutely stupid | 02:58 |
| timeless_mbp | the context is a *list* | 02:58 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, i'd recommend listing it w/ a note that you're aware there *might* be a valid excuse for such an oddity | 02:58 |
| lcuk | so you get different amount of data on what should be self similar screens | 02:58 |
| * Firebird stabs QT for maemo to death | 02:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, please collect your bug :) | 02:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | fwiw, there's also a horizontal alignment issue | 02:59 |
| timeless_mbp | actually, on that i'm really not certain | 02:59 |
| timeless_mbp | but i suspect there is :) | 02:59 |
| lcuk | ill try and write it up carefully in a few | 02:59 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, most of these are fixed in my translation :) | 03:00 |
| lcuk | i need to shower first | 03:00 |
| timeless_mbp | the dialogs made you dirty? | 03:00 |
| * timeless_mbp is sorry | 03:00 | |
| * lcuk did just get back after 3 hours on a train with roudy drunken footballers | 03:00 | |
| lcuk | day at barcamp | 03:00 |
| * lcuk wanted to stay the night | 03:00 | |
| lcuk | tomorrows sessions looked wicked | 03:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: annoyingly... The chips that would have been easy to use for this seem to have been discontinued in 2005 or so | 03:03 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, the drive towards digital leaves many technologies lacking | 03:03 |
| lcuk | i remember tv senders being reasonably cheap in the late 90s | 03:03 |
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| lcuk | then they vanished and replaced with 100s of quids worth of super crap | 03:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: where does the 3.5mm jack come out? | 03:06 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: on the n900, if there's a place that's right, and a place 180deg from right | 03:07 |
| timeless_mbp | you can be sure, it'll be at the place 180deg from right | 03:07 |
| timeless_mbp | usb on top, audio jack on bottom | 03:08 |
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| lcuk | usb on left hand side | 03:08 |
| lcuk | video out on right hand side | 03:08 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 03:08 |
| lcuk | if you charge and have headphones, the n900 is like an inline remote | 03:08 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: VHF TV modulators still seem available... | 03:09 |
| * SpeedEvil may look some more later. | 03:09 | |
| lcuk | lol - as long as its not like the old style Amiga RF modulator! | 03:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: well - the first chips I've found want 250mW of power - which implies a non-trivial battery | 03:12 |
| lcuk | i would be happy with a presentation pack which sat under the whole device itself | 03:12 |
| lcuk | if it gave 1hr or so of wireless tv from device it would work | 03:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | would a video sender like device work? | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | with a plug-in to the TV? | 03:16 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, probably | 03:16 |
| lcuk | i really liked using n900 to present from | 03:16 |
| lcuk | and was super impressed by the double res screen | 03:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I could make the reciever really small, and sell replacement ones to careless people. | 03:17 |
| lcuk | show movie in projector, and have remote control on screen :) | 03:17 |
| lcuk | the recv could be a k box the size of the tardis | 03:18 |
| lcuk | -k | 03:18 |
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| Firebird | success!! even though I didn't change anything.... | 03:27 |
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| crashanddie | what's the command to launch quake? | 03:36 |
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| tbf | http://taschenorakel.de/pictures/screenshots/2009/10/25/tp-gruschler.png | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah - I love practical encouragement with diet programs. | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | You could burn off the 1,400 calories from this Tesco Value Cooking Bacon 500g in a variety of ways: | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Baling Hay for 110 minutes | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Ice Fishing - sitting for 439 minutes | 03:47 |
| tbf | (that's f-contacts) | 03:48 |
| Stskeeps | tbf, cool | 03:48 |
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| lcuk | timeless, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5768 | 03:08 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 03:08 |
| timeless_mbp | um | 03:08 |
| timeless_mbp | please upload your pictures to bugzilla | 03:08 |
| timeless_mbp | then people can use 'view all' | 03:09 |
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| lcuk | timeless, ok | 03:12 |
| lcuk | done | 03:12 |
| * lcuk has never added attachment to it | 03:12 | |
| timeless_mbp | good job :) | 03:12 |
| lcuk | lookin at it, you are right | 03:13 |
| lcuk | i would make similar boobs in my code :) | 03:13 |
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| Firebird | http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7907/25878409.png more progress... | 04:00 |
| lcuk | Firebird, way cool :) | 04:01 |
| Firebird | thanks, only thing I hate about qt-hildon is that everything is almost pitch black.. unlike the slate/grey color in native hildon apps | 04:04 |
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| BBNS | Firebird: playable on N900? =p | 04:07 |
| Firebird | BBNS, uhh.... soon! | 04:09 |
| BBNS | woohoo! | 04:09 |
| * BBNS cheers Firebird | 04:09 | |
| lcuk | hahaa bbigras | 04:10 |
| lcuk | BBNS, | 04:10 |
| BBNS | lcuk: =P btw you tested the camera api i told you last week yet? | 04:10 |
| lcuk | not had much time, but its in my stack. i want the viewfinder mode - the current whole frame is not realtime enough for acceptable use | 04:11 |
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| lcuk | ie next time i do camera stuff | 04:11 |
| lcuk | i have been making packages and things and going to barcamp this last week | 04:11 |
| BBNS | lcuk: it's within the same source anyway, you could switch mode. | 04:11 |
| lcuk | yeah | 04:11 |
| lcuk | 3 modes work :) | 04:11 |
| lcuk | or should do based on your insight :) | 04:12 |
| BBNS | by default is viewfinder mode | 04:12 |
| BBNS | and then still-image mode / video mode | 04:12 |
| BBNS | you could inspect v4l2camsrc. it's a property. | 04:12 |
| lcuk | the amount of drag and bend on the image is much more than the live viewfinder | 04:12 |
| lcuk | yeah | 04:12 |
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| BBNS | depends on your pipeline. if you dump the v4l2camsrc directly to xvimagesink, | 04:13 |
| BBNS | that's the same thing as live viewfinder. | 04:13 |
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| BBNS | but, if you have longer pipeline then i am not sure. | 04:13 |
| BBNS | since buffers will be copied. | 04:14 |
| lcuk | i have the minimal pipeline as you describe i believe | 04:14 |
| lcuk | its the same pipeline as on the 810 | 04:14 |
| BBNS | i don't have ffmpegcolor though | 04:14 |
| lcuk | but the frames coming back have noticable more slowscan warping | 04:14 |
| BBNS | i convert yuy2 to rgb via shader, and render to texture directly. | 04:14 |
| lcuk | turn off the camera from app | 04:14 |
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| lcuk | open real camera app | 04:15 |
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| lcuk | and they are not scanwarped | 04:15 |
| lcuk | which is at the camera end | 04:15 |
| BBNS | i noticed that too. | 04:15 |
| lcuk | rather than in the pipeline | 04:15 |
| lcuk | hence i think somehow its in the fullscan mode | 04:15 |
| BBNS | also i noticed there was some noise. | 04:15 |
| lcuk | always noise :) | 04:15 |
| BBNS | hmm ... let me know if you have any idea how to turn it off. | 04:16 |
| lcuk | cameras are noiser | 04:16 |
| lcuk | noisey | 04:16 |
| lcuk | the 810 was too | 04:16 |
| lcuk | yeah BBNS im gonna stick my head back in it | 04:16 |
| lcuk | i really need it for something | 04:16 |
| BBNS | i believe real cam app uses the same source. | 04:16 |
| BBNS | but i don't know how it has been tuned. | 04:16 |
| BBNS | =) please let me know if you have any discovery. | 04:16 |
| BBNS | i am curious too. | 04:17 |
| * b-man17 sighs | 04:19 | |
| lcuk | ive lost the pic | 04:21 |
| lcuk | a pic | 04:21 |
| derf | I don't think the N810's camera could properly be called "noisy". | 04:24 |
| derf | It was noisy in the same way that an analog TV station that's off the air is "noisy". | 04:25 |
| lcuk | i thought all a/d image sensors had similar noise | 04:26 |
| lcuk | reducing that noise is part of the post processing | 04:27 |
| solarion | spam: "Autumn Special -3 coffees for $3" I don't think this is a good deal | 04:27 |
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| derf | lcuk: All sensors have noise. Most of them try to compensate by receiving more than one photon. | 04:28 |
| lcuk | yeah, slowing the refresh rate satursates each pixel more and has better stability | 04:28 |
| lcuk | upto a point | 04:29 |
| derf | Well, too long and you get motion blur, etc. | 04:29 |
| lcuk | slow it too much and you blue yeah | 04:29 |
| lcuk | blur | 04:29 |
| derf | But some people also like to use a bigger sensor. | 04:29 |
| derf | Those are your basic two options: more surface area or more time. | 04:30 |
| * lcuk nods | 04:30 | |
| derf | You're never going to have a "good" camera in a mobile phone, just because of size issues. | 04:30 |
| lcuk | yeah so you work with what you have | 04:30 |
| derf | But the N810's camera went way beyond "bad". | 04:30 |
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| lcuk | the accelerometer is very noisey too | 04:31 |
| derf | $100,000 accelerometers are noisy. | 04:31 |
| derf | Measuring a 2nd derivative is always going to be noisy. | 04:31 |
| lcuk | yeah, but in just the same way you can try to tame the accelerometer, you can attempt similar with each pixel | 04:31 |
| derf | Yes, there are millions of denoising algorithms. | 04:32 |
| lcuk | but then on a mobile device we are constrained by cpu power reqs | 04:32 |
| derf | If I ever get an N900, I'd like to try some of Monty's complex wavelet denoising. | 04:32 |
| lcuk | it would be nice to offer the plugin api to allow this kind of experimentation | 04:33 |
| derf | There've been some recent advances in TV denoising, too. | 04:33 |
| lcuk | at source using the raw data before it gets to jpeg | 04:33 |
| lcuk | yeah, even tho on tv they are having different issues | 04:33 |
| derf | (where TV = total variation) | 04:33 |
| lcuk | its less noise now and more compression artifacts | 04:34 |
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| derf | TV is a particular type of norm (e.g., the sum of the gradient magnitudes). | 04:35 |
| derf | Requires an iterative numerical algorithm to minimize, but there was a new dual algorithm developed in 2004 that's actually pretty fast. | 04:35 |
| derf | It also traditionally has problems with banding, but there's a solution to that problem, now, too. | 04:36 |
| * lcuk nods | 04:36 | |
| lcuk | work ongoin in many areas :) | 04:36 |
| lcuk | i have to sleep tho | 04:37 |
| lcuk | had a long day carrying heavy laptop and projector round barcamp! | 04:37 |
| derf | I've got code that implements most of this. | 04:37 |
| lcuk | nice! | 04:37 |
| derf | I'm curious how hard it would be to get running in a reasonable amount of time on the device. | 04:37 |
| lcuk | i gave presentation direct from n900 :) | 04:37 |
| lcuk | as i shouldv at the summit | 04:37 |
| lcuk | me too derf | 04:37 |
| derf | But... so many things to do. | 04:38 |
| lcuk | in the case of the camera, its a matter of checking the cpu cost of the functions | 04:38 |
| derf | Well, and also looking into DSP/NEON optimizations. | 04:38 |
| lcuk | its like appollo 13 :D | 04:38 |
| lcuk | same thing | 04:38 |
| lcuk | see whats acceptable time wise | 04:38 |
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| lcuk | work out what can be done in that time | 04:38 |
| derf | All of this stuff is floating point. | 04:38 |
| derf | The ARM11's fpu was atrociously slow. | 04:39 |
| derf | Don't know if Cortex A8's will be better. | 04:39 |
| lcuk | messy and consuming | 04:39 |
| lcuk | perhaps there would be a way to use pixelshaders :) | 04:39 |
| derf | Right, if the PowerVR chip is powerful enough, this stuff is very GPU-friendly. | 04:39 |
| * lcuk nods | 04:39 | |
| lcuk | derf, then if the pvr still isnt powerful enough on its own whilst also doing the normal graphics stuff, maybe the compositing can be removed. the camera ui does livei n the yuv plane afaik | 04:41 |
| lcuk | and isnt composited | 04:42 |
| lcuk | but the subsystem may still be busy | 04:42 |
| lcuk | anyway | 04:43 |
| lcuk | sleep time, gnite derf BBNS \o | 04:43 |
| solarion | derf: a fellow numerical monkey! | 04:44 |
| solarion | derf: what univ you at? | 04:44 |
| solarion | lcuk: n8 | 04:44 |
| lcuk | nite solarion | 04:44 |
| derf | solarion: I graduated. | 04:45 |
| solarion | derf: postdocing? | 04:45 |
| derf | Industry. | 04:45 |
| derf | They pay better :). | 04:45 |
| solarion | definitely | 04:45 |
| * solarion is postdocing. :( | 04:45 | |
| solarion | where at? | 04:45 |
| derf | A small defense contractor. | 04:45 |
| BBNS | night, lcuk! | 04:45 |
| solarion | ah, cool | 04:45 |
| solarion | bet you guys could figure out some interesting uses for n900s. :) | 04:46 |
| solarion | derf: what do you work in? | 04:47 |
| solarion | engineering of some sort? | 04:47 |
| derf | Of some sort, yes. | 04:47 |
| derf | I do a lot of things. | 04:47 |
| solarion | sounds like fun. :) | 04:47 |
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| solarion | is good to hear from other numerical calculators. :) | 04:48 |
| derf | Computer vision, machine learning/pattern recognition, OCR, general image/video processing, compression, hyperspectral, GPU programming, numerical algorithms, parallel/distributed computing... | 04:49 |
| pupnik | derf what is probability of cell phones being able to translate signs and menus soon | 04:54 |
| pupnik | computationally i think it s idoable | 04:54 |
| pupnik | another thing is some general voice assist - at least for common commands | 04:55 |
| solarion | derf: sounds like *lots* of fun. :) | 04:55 |
| pupnik | doesn't need to be fluid recognition | 04:55 |
| pupnik | yeah fun | 04:56 |
| pupnik | dude is making money creating useless products to kill people with money forced out of taxpayer pockets at gunpoint | 04:56 |
| solarion | not that you're bitter or anything | 04:57 |
| pupnik | no, just pointing it out | 04:57 |
| pupnik | most people don't realize this | 04:57 |
| pupnik | military spending is a waste of money | 04:57 |
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| derf | pupnik: Our systems are sensors, they don't kill anyone. | 04:58 |
| derf | They help make sure our military kills the _right_ people. | 04:58 |
| derf | And Lord knows they need all the help they can get. | 04:58 |
| solarion | pupnik: clearly. I mean, bad guys would stop existing if we just sniffed enough pixie dust and thought of a wonderful thought | 04:59 |
| solarion | see also smart bombs vs, say, WWII | 05:00 |
| * solarion also gets funded by DoD yet is unrelated to developing weapons | 05:00 | |
| * solarion does fundamental science, and DoD is one of the few places funding that | 05:01 | |
| solarion | DoE started getting into it a little, but far and away DoD is the biggest TMK | 05:01 |
| solarion | I think second is NSF, although the allocations are different | 05:01 |
| solarion | they may be similar, come to think of it | 05:01 |
| solarion | regardless, most people never realize *that* either | 05:02 |
| derf | solarion: NIH. | 05:02 |
| solarion | derf: I don't do bio | 05:02 |
| * solarion is in solid state physics | 05:02 | |
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| derf | Sure, I'm just saying, they fund a lot of fundamental science. | 05:02 |
| solarion | is very true | 05:03 |
| derf | Including me, at one point. | 05:03 |
| solarion | they might fund me if I can figure out how to tie in bio, or else develop a special sort of sensor | 05:03 |
| solarion | has to be pretty specialized | 05:03 |
| solarion | sadly, industry just ain't funding fundamental research anymore | 05:04 |
| derf | Yeah, I don't build the sensors, I just do the processing. | 05:04 |
| solarion | gone are the days of bell labs and things | 05:04 |
| derf | Fortunately, math is math. | 05:04 |
| pupnik | i'm fairly familiar with science from the public health side and national grants | 05:04 |
| derf | The same math I used for medical image analysis applies to the sensors the DoD is using. | 05:04 |
| solarion | I'd not even desing the sensor; I'd develop the principles underlying the sensor, and predict how to tune the device perhaps | 05:04 |
| pupnik | fine, you just write the counting machines for the jews heading to the gas chambers | 05:05 |
| derf | pupnik: Yes, that's me. | 05:05 |
| solarion | pupnik: you've just Godwinned yourself. :) | 05:05 |
| pupnik | working for government is pure evil | 05:05 |
| derf | I'd rather be taking their money than giving it to them. | 05:05 |
| pupnik | as long as we're OT | 05:05 |
| pupnik | there's a good point :) | 05:05 |
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| pupnik | (btw been there, done that too) | 05:06 |
| derf | Anyway, I'll go tell my dad all those years he spent working for the Coast Guard were evil. | 05:06 |
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| derf | He should have just let all the Hatian boat people drown. | 05:06 |
| pupnik | yeah my point was mainly that military tech doesn't produce consumer products | 05:06 |
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| derf | And let all the drug smugglers bring their drugs here. | 05:06 |
| pupnik | oh yes government is evil for enforcing blockades | 05:07 |
| pupnik | but you'll have to think about that one too | 05:07 |
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| derf | Say what you want about the "war on drugs", but I don't see how it's bad to seize massive quantities of cocaine at sea. | 05:08 |
| pupnik | how about cars | 05:08 |
| doc|home | derf: that's what was said about prohibition | 05:08 |
| derf | I don't think the Coast Guard seizes many cars. | 05:08 |
| pupnik | or pistacios | 05:08 |
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| pupnik | you could kill someone with pistacios | 05:09 |
| pupnik | if you cared enough | 05:09 |
| dmj7261 | pistachio allergies? | 05:10 |
| derf | Uh huh. I guess they must be just like cocaine, then. | 05:10 |
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| pupnik | right. quantity x of pistacios makes person happy. quantity n*x makes them dead. or handicapped. | 05:22 |
| pupnik | oh and by the way ban n900s | 05:23 |
| pupnik | because clearly we do not need them for your spartan society | 05:23 |
| pupnik | btw do we have any volunteers for pistacio-boarding? | 05:24 |
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| derf | pupnik: I don't think you're going to bring anyone to your side of the argument by being ridiculous. | 05:25 |
| pupnik | maybe i can drive them from yours by revealing how ridiculous it is | 05:26 |
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| pupnik | but i do skip ahead in the argument chain | 05:27 |
| pupnik | that is a fault | 05:27 |
| derf | If you can't tell the difference between pistacios and cocaine, I'm not holding out much hope for you. | 05:27 |
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| pupnik | have you tried both, derf? | 05:34 |
| derf | No, I haven't. | 05:34 |
| derf | I also don't need to try jumping off a bridge to know that it might be harmful. | 05:34 |
| pupnik | you are imagining a qualitative difference where there is only a quantitative one | 05:35 |
| derf | I didn't say the difference was qualitative. | 05:35 |
| derf | I just said they were different. | 05:35 |
| derf | If the difference is purely quantitative, it is rather substantial. | 05:36 |
| pupnik | ah ok so your policy advocacy is not based on right and wrong and the nature of things, but some utilitarian ideal of social engineering | 05:36 |
| derf | I'm not sure I've advocated a policy. | 05:36 |
| pupnik | coast guard interdictions | 05:36 |
| derf | I understand the arguments for drug legalization, and I'm sympathetic to the reports from the Netherlands, Portugal, etc., that suggest regulating it instead reduces crime, usage, and many other things. | 05:37 |
| derf | Whether it is legal and regulated or illegal, somebody is going to have to deal with smuggling. | 05:37 |
| derf | And on the open seas, that somebody is the Coast Guard. | 05:38 |
| pupnik | maybe we could wrap this up? i would just ask that you look for employment opportunities in voluntary services, not forced ones | 05:38 |
| derf | Absolutely no one is arguing with a straight face that it should be completely unregulated. | 05:38 |
| pupnik | sorry many are now advocating just that | 05:39 |
| derf | I don't recall being forced into this job. | 05:39 |
| derf | pupnik: I think you are confused. | 05:39 |
| pupnik | if you are working for defense, your pay is derived from coerced taxes | 05:39 |
| pupnik | i.e. not voluntary services | 05:39 |
| pupnik | that was all i wanted to mention | 05:39 |
| derf | Okay. I think everyone knows how government works. | 05:40 |
| microlith | ~-~ | 05:41 |
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| lubomir | hello | 05:42 |
| lubomir | short question aboit the Nokia N900 btw maemo 5 | 05:42 |
| lubomir | is it possible to use the phone as an mobile acces point? | 05:43 |
| lubomir | to share the internet connection | 05:43 |
| pupnik | good question | 05:43 |
| derf | Also, as long as we're talking about "voluntary", I thought this was hilarious: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8321967.stm | 05:43 |
| pupnik | i have read on wiki that the stock kernel does not support NAT lubomir - this may be a problem for that but i'm not sure. | 05:44 |
| lubomir | NAT = netfilter? | 05:44 |
| pupnik | well maybe a userspace proxy would work | 05:45 |
| pupnik | good question, anyone know answers? | 05:45 |
| lubomir | because on android i must enable netfilter in the kernel to get that functionality | 05:45 |
| pupnik | lubomir: network address translation | 05:45 |
| lubomir | okay | 05:45 |
| lubomir | and how is the battery live? | 05:45 |
| pupnik | i just was looking and found that wiki page | 05:46 |
| pupnik | very very dependent on software use lubomir | 05:46 |
| luke-jr | pupnik: NAT is an ugly hack anyway | 05:46 |
| pupnik | but i think maemo apps might be more power saving than android | 05:46 |
| luke-jr | just setup IPv6 | 05:46 |
| derf | luke-jr: Tell that to half the internet. | 05:46 |
| pupnik | luke-jr: anybody using their n900 for dun networking? | 05:46 |
| derf | Probably far more than half at this point. | 05:46 |
| pupnik | ok | 05:47 |
| lubomir | i know that battery live is software dependent. i mean when using browser for ~20minutes a day, telephone 2 minutes and write the one or other sms | 05:48 |
| lubomir | how long does it run? | 05:48 |
| pupnik | maybe there are threads on talk.maemo.org. my few days use was fairly heavy interaction and i needed to charge after a morning's use | 05:48 |
| lubomir | pupnik, so on heavy load -> 24hours? | 05:49 |
| pupnik | continuous use by me was maybe 6 | 05:49 |
| pupnik | occasional checking of webpages probably > 48 | 05:49 |
| lubomir | HUI | 05:50 |
| lubomir | i never reached 48hours with my android phone :D | 05:50 |
| pupnik | really, maemo sleeps well | 05:50 |
| lubomir | only if disable umts and never touch it | 05:50 |
| lubomir | :D | 05:50 |
| lubomir | what kernel version? | 05:51 |
| pupnik | dunno - whatever on the summit prototypeds | 05:51 |
| pupnik | s | 05:51 |
| lubomir | so not final? | 05:51 |
| pupnik | i don't know what they're doing with final flashing | 05:52 |
| lubomir | is there a git or so for selfcompiling and putting on phone? | 05:52 |
| pupnik | how would they ship them without the OS already flashed by now - i dunno | 05:52 |
| pupnik | the OS? | 05:52 |
| lubomir | yes | 05:53 |
| pupnik | much is open-source but not all | 05:53 |
| pupnik | see the mer project for a full open-source implementation | 05:53 |
| luke-jr | lubomir: N900, like its predecessor models, is closed | 05:53 |
| luke-jr | pupnik: Mer is not full open either | 05:53 |
| lubomir | for example you can find the opensource part of android for free | 05:53 |
| pupnik | oh mer includes some driver blobs luke-jr ? | 05:54 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: oi, thats not right | 05:54 |
| luke-jr | correctio | 05:54 |
| luke-jr | Mer for Nxx0 is not open ;) | 05:54 |
| lubomir | it seems like i have to sell my android phone in future... | 05:54 |
| Stskeeps | mer core is open and we dont yet put out images with evil bits in them. | 05:54 |
| * pupnik grumbles | 05:54 | |
| pupnik | open enough for me really | 05:54 |
| lubomir | and thats a special one... | 05:54 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: only because you can't | 05:54 |
| luke-jr | lubomir: why? | 05:55 |
| pupnik | and i'm pretty open-sourcey | 05:55 |
| lubomir | i was one of ~6 people in germany who get that 4free | 05:55 |
| lubomir | and was the official tester | 05:55 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: and the idea is to always provide open images without the bits. | 05:55 |
| pupnik | but come on, nokia has agreements and stuff. apis. | 05:55 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: but those images won't work on Nxx0 yet | 05:55 |
| luke-jr | pupnik: not for the battery | 05:55 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: sure they will. flash only rootfs | 05:55 |
| Stskeeps | so, in this case, shut the fuck up. | 05:55 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: then you at least lose GPS for N810 | 05:56 |
| Stskeeps | yes? | 05:56 |
| Stskeeps | our images are still open source | 05:56 |
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| ali1234 | there is NO fully working, fully open source phone. period. | 05:57 |
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| luke-jr | ali1234: yet... :/ | 05:57 |
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| Macer | wtf | 05:57 |
| Macer | wow. maemo5 looks absolutely awesome in the vids | 05:58 |
| lubomir | what N900 have(and i want/need) what my android doesn have: flash, gpu-chip, faster cpu, more ram,better display resolution, carl-zeiss cam, realy high video resolution (i have now 320*240),... | 05:58 |
| microlith | lubomir: what phone is it? | 05:58 |
| lubomir | ah, and eAAC+ support, i dont have at the moment | 05:58 |
| luke-jr | lubomir: wtf device lacks flash? | 05:58 |
| lubomir | yea, only 1 or 2 androud phones have flash | 05:59 |
| luke-jr | I doubt that. | 05:59 |
| luke-jr | what do they put the OS on? | 05:59 |
| microlith | I think he means high flash capacity | 05:59 |
| luke-jr | microlith: that's what SD cards are for | 05:59 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: if you keep persisting mer isnt open source, do me a favour and leave #mer. you shouldnt be in channels against your own semi religious belief. | 06:00 |
| lubomir | microlith, samsung galaxy. oled screen, 7,2down, 5,76up(THAT doesnt have the N900 ... :-( ), and so on | 06:00 |
| derf | I think he means a Flash player in the browser. | 06:00 |
| Macer | well... doesn't n900 use ssd? | 06:00 |
| Macer | and not just an internal sd? | 06:00 |
| microlith | derf: you're probably right -_- | 06:00 |
| luke-jr | Macer: SD is SSD | 06:00 |
| Macer | ssd has higher r/w | 06:01 |
| microlith | the N900 uses an internal eMMC chip | 06:01 |
| derf | Though, unlike the iPhone, apparently Android will eventually ship that. | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | Macer: and no, afaik, N900 is the same as N810 in that respect-- NAND + SD | 06:01 |
| Macer | sd = secure disk | 06:01 |
| Macer | ssd = solid state drive | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | derf: Flash is crap | 06:01 |
| Macer | :) | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | Macer: SD = SecureDigital flash | 06:01 |
| derf | luke-jr: I don't disagree. | 06:01 |
| Macer | oh .. well whatever :) | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | Macer: which is a Solid State Disk | 06:01 |
| Macer | with slower io | 06:01 |
| Macer | dependent on the reader i suppose but nonetheless.. ssd can go faster | 06:02 |
| luke-jr | afaik all SSD have slow IO | 06:02 |
| * Macer looks at the intel ssd | 06:02 | |
| luke-jr | at least for their blocklayer emulation | 06:02 |
| * microlith senses mixed terminology... | 06:02 | |
| Macer | i don't know. seems to give much faster write speed and amazingly fast read and access time | 06:02 |
| Macer | as opposed to 6MB/s :) | 06:02 |
| Macer | so i am sure the technology is slightly different | 06:02 |
| luke-jr | do SATA SSD support raw NAND/NOR access? | 06:03 |
| microlith | mp | 06:03 |
| microlith | no | 06:03 |
| luke-jr | Macer: I think the bus is just faster | 06:03 |
| luke-jr | :( | 06:03 |
| microlith | all raw flash access is hidden behind a controller with custom logic | 06:03 |
| Macer | luke-jr: then the question stands do they use sd or ssd? | 06:03 |
| microlith | and no SSD uses NOR for primary data storage | 06:03 |
| lubomir | can i find somewhere the realy techincal specs of the N900? | 06:03 |
| Macer | they are not the same if they use a different bus :) i mean the storage tech is but the access tech isn't | 06:03 |
| Macer | so what does the n900 use? | 06:04 |
| microlith | N900 uses eMMC | 06:04 |
| Macer | microlith: for its "1GB" of memory? | 06:04 |
| microlith | for its 32GB | 06:04 |
| luke-jr | Macer: they use SD, a kind of SSD | 06:04 |
| lubomir | what is that 768mb ? is it swap on the eMMC? | 06:05 |
| Macer | i thought n900 uses a swap in order to give it "1GB" of memory using ssd tech for better speeds | 06:05 |
| microlith | it does | 06:05 |
| microlith | it has 256MB of physical ram | 06:05 |
| Macer | 256M physical and 768 swap | 06:05 |
| Macer | yeah | 06:05 |
| microlith | and a 768MB swap partition on the eMMC card | 06:05 |
| Macer | what are the speeds on the swap? | 06:05 |
| luke-jr | Macer: that swap comes out of the 32 GB eMMC | 06:05 |
| lubomir | i have to recompile my kernel on my android for swap... | 06:05 |
| Macer | what are the speeds for their eMMC? | 06:06 |
| * luke-jr personally thinks advertising swap as "memory", at least that much, is false advertising | 06:06 | |
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| lubomir | does anywhone know where i could find the realy technical data of the N900? | 06:06 |
| lubomir | luke-jr, yea, real ram is always better | 06:06 |
| luke-jr | lubomir: my N810 at least can't handle swapping even 2x its own RAM | 06:07 |
| luke-jr | yet N900 advertises swap of 3x | 06:07 |
| luke-jr | has anyone even tested if it's possible to use it all? | 06:07 |
| lubomir | hm, when noone know where to find the real technical data - for example what wlan-chipset is there build in? | 06:08 |
| microlith | lubomir: I suspect we won't know until it's out and someone like iFixit does a teardown | 06:09 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps could probably answer | 06:09 |
| lubomir | ahm, what does lspci say? | 06:09 |
| microlith | that said, I suspect it's probably lots of TI chips | 06:09 |
| Stskeeps | lubomir: wl1251 i think | 06:09 |
| Stskeeps | there is a dmesg published somewhere | 06:09 |
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| luke-jr | lubomir: keep in mind most people don't have N900s :p | 06:10 |
| lubomir | argh. i hate TI... | 06:10 |
| luke-jr | why? | 06:11 |
| Macer | luke-jr: false advertising is ai saying the touchbook can last 12 hours and not having proper pm so it lasts for 7 | 06:11 |
| luke-jr | I mean, I don't especially like TI either, but afaik WiFi hasn't been a problem | 06:11 |
| lubomir | closed source | 06:11 |
| Macer | :) | 06:11 |
| Macer | for that i might as well just use my aspire1 | 06:11 |
| Stskeeps | lubomir: open driver | 06:11 |
| lubomir | hugh? | 06:11 |
| Macer | which is 5x faster and lasts just as long | 06:11 |
| Stskeeps | go look in kernel, its there | 06:11 |
| luke-jr | Macer: or Nokia saying the N810 can last a month, and it really only handling about 3 hours | 06:11 |
| microlith | Macer: speaking of aspire ones, would you know of any place that sells replacement parts for those things? | 06:11 |
| Macer | luke-jr: i disagree | 06:11 |
| RurouniJones | Hmm, I read on some #maemo logfiles found via google that people are considering porting the Quassel-client to the N900 with an altered interface. Can anyone confirm / deny / provide info? | 06:11 |
| luke-jr | lubomir: afaik, all Nokia's handhelds have open drivers for wifi | 06:11 |
| lubomir | Stskeeps, what kernel? offical one? | 06:11 |
| Macer | i have had my n810 last a very long time in lower power modes | 06:11 |
| Stskeeps | lubomir: yeah | 06:12 |
| luke-jr | RurouniJones: I run Quassel on my N810 | 06:12 |
| Macer | and it usually lasts quite a bit of time in use actually | 06:12 |
| luke-jr | Macer: a month? | 06:12 |
| Macer | i'd put my n810 at around 6 hours of use | 06:12 |
| lubomir | *quickly run make menuconfig* | 06:12 |
| RurouniJones | lubomir: But does it have a customized interface for a small screen? | 06:12 |
| Macer | luke-jr: probably not that long, but i have had it last well over 2 weeks if i don' ttouch it | 06:12 |
| luke-jr | RurouniJones: the problems are GPS, battery, FM radio, and GSM afaik | 06:12 |
| Macer | and that is using the internal sd as its boot drive so i am sure that probably uses a bit more power | 06:12 |
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| Macer | maybe the internal flash is a bit more optimized for it but i never ran it for long off the internal flash | 06:13 |
| luke-jr | Macer: 2 weeks is 50%. 7 hours vs 12 hours is almost 60% | 06:13 |
| lubomir | yea, cool, CONFIG_WL12XX | 06:13 |
| Macer | luke-jr: but the speed loss of the touchbook isn't worth it | 06:13 |
| Macer | it is incredibly slow :) | 06:13 |
| Macer | mostly because i am running desktop OSes on it | 06:13 |
| Stskeeps | give it to me :P | 06:14 |
| luke-jr | lol | 06:14 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: i might some day in the near future tbh | 06:14 |
| Macer | haha | 06:14 |
| Macer | let me get my n900 first ;) | 06:14 |
| luke-jr | Macer: get me a N900 too? | 06:14 |
| Macer | you're paying for the shipping this time tho :-P | 06:14 |
| lubomir | it seems like the N900 is what the android never was for me... | 06:14 |
| luke-jr | hey | 06:15 |
| Macer | android is a total let down | 06:15 |
| luke-jr | my i.MX515 proposal was accepted | 06:15 |
| Macer | some of the newer roms are pretty good but overall it totally blows :) | 06:15 |
| luke-jr | wonder why they didn't email me | 06:15 |
| lubomir | Macer, its sooooo slow | 06:15 |
| Macer | because they took your idea as its own | 06:15 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: guess I have a new toy to port Mer to | 06:15 |
| Macer | lubomir: JF 1.51 isn't too bad | 06:15 |
| Macer | i know hero roms were very slow but have gotten better | 06:15 |
| lubomir | Macer, there is no JF for galaxy :P | 06:15 |
| Macer | everybody seems to be going towards the cyanogen ones nowadays | 06:15 |
| Macer | lubomir: not familiar what kind of hardware it has | 06:16 |
| Macer | i have a G1 | 06:16 |
| luke-jr | and an opportunity to build my own handheld.. | 06:16 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: mm, fwd to mer-discuss@garage.maemo.org please | 06:16 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: fwd what? | 06:16 |
| Macer | anyways. i am 2 steps shy of preordering an n900 but i'll wait | 06:16 |
| luke-jr | http://projects.powerdeveloper.org/project/imx515/774 | 06:17 |
| Macer | i preordered a touchbook and am disappointed.. hopefully i can find an os that doesn't suck for it :) | 06:17 |
| Macer | at the least.. something that i can stick it to the wall with | 06:17 |
| Macer | haha | 06:17 |
| Macer | and not use the kb attachment | 06:17 |
| Macer | bbl | 06:17 |
| Stskeeps | well your proposal and such | 06:17 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: see link | 06:17 |
| luke-jr | there's no emails to fwd yet | 06:18 |
| Stskeeps | or just mentioning it in public | 06:18 |
| lubomir | thanks @ all. i go to bad now. see ya | 06:18 |
| Stskeeps | on the lists | 06:18 |
| Stskeeps | .log helps | 06:18 |
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| Stskeeps | luke-jr: congrats, now please dont make us ashamed of you :) | 06:19 |
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| `Mace | damn this n900 looks awesome | 06:40 |
| RurouniJones | Someone with skills needs to write a Japanese Hand-writing recognition program using Tomoe (http://tomoe.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/en/blog/index.rb) as the engine | 06:46 |
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| RurouniJones | Or hildonize the main app...hmmmm | 06:46 |
| microlith | RurouniJones: if anyone starts up a project to do so, I'm game :) | 06:52 |
| RurouniJones | Hehe, I am actually looking at a few handwriting recognition engines. Looks like Zinnia would be good for the N900 | 06:52 |
| RurouniJones | http://chasen.org/~taku/software/ajax/hwr/ - This is an AJAXy site using Tomoe | 06:53 |
| microlith | cool | 06:53 |
| * RurouniJones continues his plan to turn the N900 into a Japanese learning app | 06:56 | |
| RurouniJones | right, back to the simple quiz :p | 06:56 |
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| `Mace | great | 06:57 |
| `Mace | now i have to buy a new ssl cert | 06:57 |
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| RurouniJones | Design question. I have a gui.py and a quiz.py. When a new question is displayed should I A) Called the gui code to get the data and create the question widgets from quiz.py or B) Collect the quiz data and create the wigets from within a gui.py function? | 07:07 |
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| BBNS | mmmm Mac Tethering on N900: http://www.youtube.com/Maemo5UIteam#p/u/4/5vSqGSG9riU | 07:15 |
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| keesj | lcuk: did you submit a push n900 project? | 08:03 |
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| dmj7261 | another nice thing about phones like the n900, no need for things like the Datapilot to add custom ringtones or backup contacts. | 08:37 |
| dmj7261 | contacts are just a copyable file in home folder, right? | 08:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | ? | 08:43 |
| timeless_mbp | for backup? | 08:43 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah | 08:43 |
| timeless_mbp | ~/.osso-abook | 08:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not sure if it's one file or closer to 10 | 08:45 |
| timeless_mbp | but custom ringtones... | 08:45 |
| timeless_mbp | we don't support per contact ring tones :( | 08:45 |
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| dmj7261 | by custom, I mean things like: http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/51217 | 08:48 |
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| dmj7261 | things that I wrote | 08:50 |
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| reklama | http://action.metaffiliation.com/suivi.php?mclic=S42665516A5D131 | 09:20 |
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| reklama | http://action.metaffiliation.com/suivi.php?mclic=S42665516A5D131 | 09:22 |
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| RST38h | moo wazd | 09:31 |
| wazd | RST38h: heya | 09:32 |
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| reklama | http://action.metaffiliation.com/suivi.php?mclic=S42665516A5D131 | 10:15 |
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| microlith | can we get a ban on that? | 10:21 |
| RurouniJones | Could do with a bit of design help if anyone is free: http://pastie.org/668763 | 10:26 |
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| RurouniJones | qui.py, quiz.py and johote.py. So far all is good | 10:26 |
| RurouniJones | gui starts, displays a question etc | 10:26 |
| RurouniJones | crap, BRB | 10:28 |
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| lardman | morning | 10:28 |
| * lardman wonders if the upgrade to Ubuntu 9.04 was a mistake | 10:29 | |
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| dmj7261 | ...why 9.04? | 10:29 |
| dmj7261 | ...by the way 9.10 is pretty excellent | 10:29 |
| lardman | that's the latest non-Beta afaiu | 10:29 |
| lardman | ah, perhaps that's the one then, let me check | 10:29 |
| dmj7261 | you just upgraded? | 10:29 |
| lardman | yeah | 10:30 |
| lardman | busy summer, and it was all working, so I left it be | 10:30 |
| dmj7261 | 9.10 is RC right now | 10:30 |
| dmj7261 | I've been using it since beta, never installed 9.04 | 10:30 |
| dmj7261 | too many problems | 10:30 |
| lardman | yeah, I get random hard lockups | 10:31 |
| dmj7261 | ewww | 10:31 |
| dmj7261 | 9.10's biggest problem in my book is the touchpad defaults | 10:31 |
| lardman | no problem for a desktop machine then for me | 10:31 |
| dmj7261 | (the exact opposite of what they should be) | 10:31 |
| dmj7261 | none whatsoever. | 10:31 |
| dmj7261 | the other big problem is bland default wallpaper | 10:32 |
| dmj7261 | and the lack of pidgin | 10:32 |
| dmj7261 | empathy doesn't do off-the-record messaging. | 10:32 |
| RST38h | heya lardman | 10:32 |
| lardman | hi RST38h | 10:32 |
| RST38h | Anyone know what /usr/lib/locale-archive file is? | 10:33 |
| RST38h | And can I delete it? | 10:33 |
| RurouniJones | Ok back. so with regards to the program linked above. All the code is being used to init the program and draw the screen for the first time (and connect the buttons). My quesiton is how I should go about handling actual program logic now. coming from RubyOnRails I am thinking MVC, quiz.py classes are the model. Johote.py class is the controller ang ui.py class is the view. | 10:33 |
| lardman | hmm, so how to I do the upgrade to 9.10-* then? | 10:33 |
| dmj7261 | are you wanting to upgrade or install fresh? | 10:33 |
| lardman | dmj7261: upgrade | 10:33 |
| dmj7261 | should be instructions for that | 10:33 |
| RurouniJones | My question is how I should handle things like displaying a new question. My thinking is that I should use johote to do the logic. But how do I pass a referance of the gui class that is created when the app first starts up? | 10:34 |
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| lardman | is Karmic 9.10? | 10:34 |
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| dmj7261 | I did a clean install, since I didn't feel like subjecting my machines to a 3rd upgrade | 10:34 |
| dmj7261 | yes | 10:34 |
| lardman | dmj7261: apparently all I need do is: gksudo update-manager -d | 10:34 |
| dmj7261 | yeah | 10:35 |
| dmj7261 | that sounds right | 10:35 |
| * lardman considers loosing another whole day sorting out upgrade issues | 10:35 | |
| dmj7261 | boots fast too. | 10:35 |
| * lardman considers that he already looses a fair few hours a day doing reboots to recover from hard lockups | 10:35 | |
| dmj7261 | ...faster than 8.04 and 8.10 | 10:35 |
| RST38h | Oh shit what did I do =) | 10:35 |
| lardman | s/loos/los | 10:35 |
| dmj7261 | yeah, don't put up with hard lockups | 10:36 |
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| lardman | right time to upgrade, bbl, hopefully ;) | 10:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | WTF? | 10:56 |
| timeless_mbp | does anyone know where 41-10 is? | 10:56 |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: all i can find is something similar to 41-10 | 10:56 |
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| * timeless_mbp pokes suihkulokki | 11:03 | |
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| timeless_mbp | wow, bug 4955 sucks | 11:04 |
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| epa_ | how does one call emergency calls with N900 if it is in "Lock mode" and asks device pin to open itself? | 11:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Just put the emergency call number as the pin and a new button appears | 11:36 |
| TomaszD | you can bypass pin check | 11:36 |
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| wazd_ | reheya all | 11:47 |
| RurouniJones | Are there any maemo developer forums? | 11:47 |
| RurouniJones | Maemo5 specific would be nice | 11:48 |
| liri | now that TI are releasing drivers would that mean that flash perforamce on the tablet will increase? | 11:48 |
| liri | *performance | 11:48 |
| wazd_ | RurouniJones: not really, but we have annual cave meetings :D | 11:48 |
| RurouniJones | Hrmm, bit of a bugger. | 11:49 |
| wazd_ | RurouniJones: http://talk.maemo.org/ | 11:49 |
| achipa_i1ssi | liri: flash doesn't use powervr acceleration anyway, so my guess is no | 11:51 |
| RurouniJones | Gracies | 11:52 |
| liri | ok | 11:52 |
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| epa_ | qwerty12_N810: ok thanks. seems to be same with N900 | 12:09 |
| epa_ | I was thinking it would be nice to have some way to be able to call designated ICE numbers as well. | 12:09 |
| epa_ | it is pointless to have ICE contact in a phone if no one can call it when something happens. | 12:10 |
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| epa_ | what would be the correct forum to discuss about those issues? | 12:14 |
| epa_ | brainstorming page? | 12:14 |
| epa_ | maemo-{user,devel,cmmunity} | 12:14 |
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| wazd_ | http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/24/nokia-patent-app-reveals-dreams-of-pressure-sensitive-multitouch/ hehe | 12:26 |
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| * SpeedEvil stabs patent examiners. | 12:29 | |
| SpeedEvil | pressure sensitive multitouch is a _trivial_ extension over multitouch. | 12:29 |
| SpeedEvil | It's _completely_ obvious that you might want it | 12:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | (and there are only a few ways, all with prior art you might detect pressure | 12:30 |
| zerojayN900 | can someone do me a favor and just close down the maemo-community mailing list? | 12:30 |
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| zerojayN900 | it's clearly a useless piece of shit. | 12:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | I assume nobody knows the gory details of the TV-out port? | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I got to wondering if it is capable of - if you feed it a fake framebuffer, and lie a lot, it's possible to use it a generic high-speed out. Specifically for dvb-t | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | (with a modulator) | 13:42 |
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| Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: huh, is it digital? | 13:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: no - the noral output is analog composite. | 13:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | But in principle, if you can generate the dvb-t signal fast enough, the bandwidth is no higher than dvb-t - It needs fed through a RF modulator to make a proper signal of course | 13:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | woohoo | 13:47 |
| * timeless_mbp solved a few string conflicts | 13:47 | |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: see http://bellard.org/dvbt/ - for wackiness | 13:47 |
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| paperclip1 | timeless_mbp: How's Mer localization coming on? | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | it's mostly on hold unless someone tells me there's something specific i need to do for it | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | if there are strings that are missing/need help, a bug can be filed on me in bugs.maemo.org, i'm very bugmail driven | 13:52 |
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| * timeless_mbp goes back to responding to a bugs.maemo.org bugmail | 13:52 | |
| timeless_mbp | paperclip1: after i finish this bugmail, i am going to try to finish a l10n merge and then incorporate ~20 string fixes | 13:52 |
| timeless_mbp | (collected from 5-10 people -- yay) | 13:52 |
| paperclip1 | timeless_mbp: Thanks. | 13:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | in case people are curious, i myself can't find any sign of the 41-10 flash | 14:14 |
| timeless_mbp | so, the ability for us to generally distribute it might be a lot harder than it would seem :) | 14:14 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I wouldn't say that... | 14:14 |
| timeless_mbp | why not? | 14:14 |
| timeless_mbp | i tried, i couldn't find it | 14:15 |
| timeless_mbp | it might say that i'm an idiot, or don't know where to look | 14:15 |
| timeless_mbp | or maybe it's well hidden | 14:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i looked in the obvious place, and it wasn't there :) | 14:15 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Because even I have it, given to us by Nokia to update the loaners given before the Summit | 14:15 |
| timeless_mbp | bah | 14:16 |
| timeless_mbp | can i have it? :) | 14:16 |
| timeless_mbp | (you probably shouldn't share it actually) | 14:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | You answered your own question :) | 14:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: what i find amusing is that it's not one of the builds we can update the devices *we* were given | 14:18 |
| timeless_mbp | so, we can't easily run the same firmware you guys have :o | 14:18 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm sure there's some way to get it,... but, it isn't as easy as picking any normal build that we normally would pick | 14:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Bleh, you're probably running 45-99 by now | 14:18 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm running 37, 39, and 41 | 14:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i just upgraded one device from 37 to 41 | 14:19 |
| timeless_mbp | people at the summit met my devices running 37 and 39 | 14:19 |
| timeless_mbp | the devices we were given (which happened *after* the summit) were running 37 | 14:19 |
| MrGoose | w00t: my sympathies are with you | 14:20 |
| w00t | MrGoose: hmm? | 14:20 |
| MrGoose | http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10382664-94.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5 | 14:20 |
| MrGoose | bet its going to be december | 14:24 |
| w00t | personally, I doubt it | 14:24 |
| w00t | it'd kinda be shooting the christmas sales (or what's left of them) in the ass | 14:24 |
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| w00t | bbiab, cleaning time | 14:25 |
| w00t | *sigh* | 14:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh right | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | could people w/ n900s please hunt down WPS routers? | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | please try to connect to them w/ your n900 | 14:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | if you have any problems, please please record the make/model and file a bug w/ detailed steps and notes. (plus screen captures) | 14:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'm having trouble w/ one and i know it's a relatively rough edge, as at this time they're relatively rare in terms of general deployment | 14:55 |
| timeless_mbp | although i was in one place where there were at least half a dozen | 14:55 |
| timeless_mbp | so their uptake is very fast, but it wasn't really around during our dev cycle | 14:55 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 14:57 | |
| * timeless_mbp shakes head | 14:57 | |
| * timeless_mbp smacks head against a brick wall | 14:57 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | KO | 14:57 |
| lcuk | whats the wall done to you? | 14:58 |
| timeless_mbp | it's comforting me after reading nokia strings | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | http://bellard.org/tcc/tccboot.html _wacky_ | 15:00 |
| * timeless_mbp objects to the engb output | 15:08 | |
| * qwerty12_N810 objects to timeless_mbp | 15:09 | |
| timeless_mbp | overruled :) | 15:09 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 15:10 | |
| ShadowJK | what's WPS? | 15:10 |
| timeless_mbp | WiFi Protected Setup | 15:11 |
| timeless_mbp | it's basically push-button wifi pairing | 15:11 |
| timeless_mbp | if you've used Bluetooth 2.1 pairing, it's similar | 15:11 |
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| GAN900 | ShadowJK, that AOSS shit. | 15:11 |
| GAN900 | That's on most Nintendo and Buffalo products. | 15:12 |
| ShadowJK | I haven't figured out how to pair anything on bluetooth since BlueZ 4 came | 15:12 |
| timeless_mbp | http://images.google.com/images?q=bluetooth%202.1%20pairing | 15:12 |
| timeless_mbp | the first image there | 15:12 |
| ShadowJK | the tools stopped working at that point iirc | 15:12 |
| timeless_mbp | basically instead of you having to pick a number or, having the computer generate a number | 15:12 |
| timeless_mbp | and then you having to enter it on the other device | 15:13 |
| timeless_mbp | the devices both agree on a number, and show it on both sides | 15:13 |
| timeless_mbp | (at least in bluetooth 2.1) | 15:13 |
| timeless_mbp | you then merely confirm "yep, they have the same number" | 15:13 |
| timeless_mbp | no typing required | 15:13 |
| timeless_mbp | WPS is similar | 15:13 |
| timeless_mbp | it can be pushbutton based | 15:13 |
| timeless_mbp | e.g. you start to connect your device, you push a button on the router, you tell your device "continue" | 15:14 |
| timeless_mbp | a temporary "trust the device you're talking to *now*" mode | 15:14 |
| timeless_mbp | the idea w/ all of these things is that if you're physically close and can touch both devices w/in limited time T, you're trustworthy | 15:15 |
| timeless_mbp | it's similar to wifi basestations where the password is written on the top :) | 15:16 |
| ShadowJK | hehe | 15:16 |
| timeless_mbp | note that i've had really bad luck trying to use WPS | 15:16 |
| timeless_mbp | so i can't really speak from "it works" | 15:16 |
| timeless_mbp | i think i've had it work in exactly 1 / 5 attempts *EVER* | 15:16 |
| * timeless_mbp hasn't met many touchable WPS devices | 15:17 | |
| ShadowJK | My linksys has a button called "Secure Easy Setup". Apparently it requires the CD that came with it. I'm not stupid enough to insert discs that comes with hardware into computers. | 15:17 |
| timeless_mbp | but at this point 99% of the WiFi stations sold include them | 15:17 |
| timeless_mbp | that might be wps | 15:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecureEasySetup | 15:17 |
| timeless_mbp | sadly, it isn't | 15:17 |
| ifreq | not sure bout the 99% part | 15:18 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah I was going to say they've had it since 2002 or so and are still selling the same model :) | 15:18 |
| timeless_mbp | ifreq: i was at a computer um... hrm... second hand shook in Kiev | 15:18 |
| timeless_mbp | most of the devices sold *there* had it | 15:18 |
| timeless_mbp | and i could buy just about anything there, from the past 2 decades | 15:18 |
| timeless_mbp | (maybe even 3 decades) | 15:18 |
| ifreq | ive used many products and only buffalo had it | 15:18 |
| ifreq | or do dlink, linksys, apple airport have it? | 15:19 |
| ifreq | i dunno about some not well know model/manufacturer | 15:19 |
| GAN900 | My WRT320N has it. | 15:19 |
| ifreq | havent seen it on zyxell yet | 15:19 |
| ifreq | GAN900: well im sure 99& is not the right percent value :) | 15:20 |
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| * timeless_mbp sighs | 15:20 | |
| *** Londi is now known as Londo | 15:20 | |
| * timeless_mbp kicks the wifi alliance | 15:20 | |
| timeless_mbp | their web site sucks | 15:20 |
| timeless_mbp | http://shopper.cnet.com/buy-networking-components/?filter=1000036_5260123_500563_16264796_ | 15:21 |
| timeless_mbp | so linksys definitely has it | 15:21 |
| timeless_mbp | http://shopper.cnet.com/buy-networking-components/?filter=500563_16264796_&tag=mncol;select | 15:21 |
| ShadowJK | hm, looking at verkkokauppa, the 3 top selling models don't have it, but the fourth one has it :) | 15:21 |
| timeless_mbp | as do netgear and dlink | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: finns are stupid :) | 15:22 |
| ifreq | ShadowJK: it doesnt make it 99% | 15:22 |
| ifreq | 99 is almost like all | 15:22 |
| ifreq | :) | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | ifreq: i'm the one making the 99% claim | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | not ShadowJK | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | smc has it | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | even belkin has it | 15:22 |
| ifreq | timeless_mbp: yeh but i wasn answering to ShadowJK | 15:22 |
| ShadowJK | you were | 15:22 |
| * timeless_mbp insults ifreq 's irc client for him | 15:23 | |
| ShadowJK | :) | 15:23 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 15:23 |
| timeless_mbp | there are 9 zyxel's w/ wps | 15:23 |
| ifreq | yes. io commented to you of verkkokauppa comment | 15:23 |
| timeless_mbp | according to my second url :) | 15:23 |
| ShadowJK | Second most sold AP on verkkokauppa has WDS support though :) | 15:23 |
| ifreq | how many xyzel wifi aps is around | 15:23 |
| timeless_mbp | that's assuming shopper.cnet.com isn't broken | 15:23 |
| timeless_mbp | ZyXEL NBG-417N - wireless router | 15:24 |
| timeless_mbp | definitely has it | 15:24 |
| ifreq | timeless_mbp: and what makes finns stupid? :) | 15:24 |
| timeless_mbp | ifreq: they'll buy anything | 15:24 |
| timeless_mbp | and they don't return anything | 15:24 |
| ifreq | yeh and you buy nokia | 15:24 |
| ifreq | :( | 15:24 |
| timeless_mbp | = SHEEP | 15:24 |
| ifreq | so whos the stupid one | 15:24 |
| ifreq | or leenox, irssi etc | 15:24 |
| timeless_mbp | buy nokia? | 15:24 |
| timeless_mbp | i work for nokia | 15:24 |
| ifreq | finns definitely are stupid | 15:24 |
| timeless_mbp | if you mean i was stupid to take a job @ nokia, you're right | 15:24 |
| timeless_mbp | but at this point, i'm kinda in sales | 15:25 |
| ifreq | ah why do you work for fin company? :P | 15:25 |
| timeless_mbp | i have an n900 out on loan to someone, who's likely to buy one in a while | 15:25 |
| timeless_mbp | (if management ever lets them get to stores...) | 15:25 |
| * ifreq is using airport extreme as wifi ap. no wds (thought no need) | 15:25 | |
| timeless_mbp | it's P not D | 15:25 |
| ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, people not returning stuff is kinda amazing, considering how easy it's been made | 15:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: heh | 15:26 |
| ShadowJK | But atleast my parents have this strange notion that returning a product would always end up in days of arguing with the salesperson | 15:26 |
| timeless_mbp | what amuses me is that most finns aren't even sure if they cn return stuff | 15:26 |
| timeless_mbp | s/cn/can/ | 15:26 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: what amuses me is that most finns aren't even sure if they can return stuff | 15:26 |
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| ShadowJK | heck, if you buy something online or through mailorder, you can return it for FREE within 14 days, "no questions asked", and shipping back costs you nothing. | 15:27 |
| timeless_mbp | osx definitely has wps support | 15:28 |
| timeless_mbp | my guess is that the next version of apple's basestation will | 15:28 |
| frals | thats pretty neat when i bought my lcd (before pretty much all vendors started with 0 dead pixel policy), just order it online and return if there were dead pixels <3 | 15:28 |
| timeless_mbp | http://wifinetnews.com/archives/2007/05/new_wi-fi_protected_setup_firmware_devices_due_next_month.html | 15:29 |
| ifreq | makes me wonder why buy stuff you need to return (unless its broken). I usually look for item one or month months and check about quality etc. | 15:29 |
| timeless_mbp | > Apple's AirPort Extreme Base Station with 802.11n that shipped in February includes WPS, but not under that name; it requires an 802.11n adapter and Mac OS X to negotiate via WPS. | 15:29 |
| ShadowJK | a search on verkkokauppa finds <18 APs with WPS, out of >100 models | 15:29 |
| ifreq | bad habit to make ideas and buy stuff in a flash | 15:29 |
| ifreq | :P | 15:29 |
| ShadowJK | even so.. | 15:30 |
| ShadowJK | The cheapest quality control is the one you push onto your customers :) | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | so it looks like airport extreme /kinda/ has it | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: finns will buy anything | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | why shouldn't verokauppa sell its old stock? | 15:30 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 15:31 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, i've been told amusing anecdotes about how Milk is sold in finnland | 15:31 |
| ShadowJK | Verkkokauppa itself is having "new" ones made that cost 19.90 and have no WPS :) | 15:31 |
| ShadowJK | and people are buying them | 15:31 |
| timeless_mbp | the claim is that it's first stocked in one store | 15:31 |
| timeless_mbp | and when they get old, they're transfered to other stores :) | 15:31 |
| ifreq | ShadowJK: 19.90 wifi ap is great btw. it works "OK" and fit regular ppl needs | 15:32 |
| ifreq | ShadowJK: havent even bugged out :) | 15:32 |
| timeless_mbp | ifreq: more like "wan-party device" | 15:32 |
| timeless_mbp | use once | 15:32 |
| timeless_mbp | throw away | 15:33 |
| timeless_mbp | or give away as a party gift | 15:33 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah. I bought a similar but different brand cheap-o-AP a year or two ago. It has about 4X better reach than the 4 times more expensive Linksys I have :) | 15:33 |
| ifreq | its ok for ppl who dont need special req | 15:33 |
| ifreq | timeless_mbp: well i gave it as a gift | 15:33 |
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| ifreq | timeless_mbp: as he didnt have any ap atm | 15:33 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 15:33 | |
| ifreq | so it was better than nuttin | 15:33 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000 did something similar | 15:33 |
| ifreq | yeh | 15:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyway... enough bashing of consumerism (or absolute lack thereof) in finland | 15:34 |
| timeless_mbp | let's bash finnish English! | 15:34 |
| ifreq | gotta pack up my stuff, my "driver" is coming and giving me a ride to next town | 15:34 |
| ifreq | so cyas :) | 15:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | "driver"? is it a she? :) | 15:34 |
| ifreq | nope, my gf's cousins dad | 15:34 |
| ifreq | :d | 15:34 |
| ifreq | :D | 15:34 |
| ShadowJK | The trick to buying milk is to stick in your head far into the fridge and get milk from the back, which has almost 6 days before expiry! | 15:34 |
| ShadowJK | the oldest is in front :) | 15:34 |
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| ifreq | beats the travel by train thought | 15:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | -t | 15:34 |
| ifreq | got my suit and stuff with me.. so sux to carry them around | 15:35 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 15:35 | |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: the trick to buying milk is to say 'meh - UHT has gotten a hell of a lot better than it was' | 15:35 |
| timeless_mbp | i traveled through eastern Europe w/ a suit carrier | 15:35 |
| * SpeedEvil has 2 months milk in the cupboard | 15:35 | |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: heh | 15:35 |
| ShadowJK | UHT is kinda costly :) | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: not here | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | tescos it's the same price | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp | the trick to buying milk is to have your guests buy it on the way up :) | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp | they buy what they need, and drink it | 15:36 |
| ShadowJK | iirc it was double cost here last time I checked.. | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp | the other trick is getting them to empty your fridge/trash on their way out :) | 15:36 |
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| * timeless_mbp sighs | 15:39 | |
| ShadowJK | you never got started on the bashing finglish thing | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, i'm doing it now | 15:40 |
| timeless_mbp | that's why i'm sighing | 15:40 |
| ShadowJK | hah | 15:40 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: actually - looking - it's 63p/l vs 66 for fresh milk. | 15:40 |
| ShadowJK | after sighing comes drinking, but unfortunately you can only get lager | 15:41 |
| timeless_mbp | i can't afford to drink. i live in Finland, it'd kill me | 15:41 |
| timeless_mbp | (And my wallet) | 15:41 |
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| lcuk | brew your own! | 15:41 |
| * SpeedEvil was about to suggest that. | 15:41 | |
| timeless_mbp | i want to keep my liver | 15:41 |
| * SpeedEvil doesn't drink at all. (alcohols) | 15:42 | |
| * timeless_mbp neither | 15:42 | |
| SpeedEvil | Well - that's not _quite_ true. | 15:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Liqueur chocolates. | 15:42 |
| timeless_mbp | liqueur desserts ? | 15:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Little expensive chocolates, which sometimes have alcohol in their ingredients | 15:43 |
| timeless_mbp | (where the alcohol is cooked away) | 15:43 |
| SpeedEvil | in the gooey filling | 15:43 |
| timeless_mbp | i know, i'm suggesting another case | 15:43 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 15:43 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 15:43 | |
| * SpeedEvil is concentrating too much on food ATM - dieting. | 15:44 | |
| SpeedEvil | ~1kg/week so far | 15:44 |
| SpeedEvil | -1kg, to be specific. | 15:44 |
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| ShadowJK | Sounds like alot | 15:44 |
| SpeedEvil | I want to lose ~15-20. | 15:44 |
| timeless_mbp | exercise! | 15:44 |
| * timeless_mbp should do that | 15:45 | |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: doing that too. | 15:45 |
| SpeedEvil | It's to partially pay for my n900 too. | 15:45 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAtur is supposed to show me frizbee golf somewhere around here | 15:45 |
| timeless_mbp | there's eCoach once you get it :) | 15:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I suggested last night we need optical calorie recognition, for the maemo eats project. | 15:45 |
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| ShadowJK | How does it pay for n900? | 15:46 |
| timeless_mbp | buying less means instant savings | 15:46 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: halves spending on food | 15:46 |
| ShadowJK | Oh right | 15:46 |
| timeless_mbp | i spend 25 EUR a day on meals | 15:46 |
| derf | That's insane. | 15:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | for one month, that's what, ~500 EUR ? | 15:47 |
| * ShadowJK is probably at 10 per day | 15:47 | |
| SpeedEvil | I've recently been spending only 4-5 quid on food/day - but still - halving that is not inconsiderable | 15:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | well, the meal @works is roughly 7 EUR | 15:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | the dinner is roughly 9-15 EUR | 15:47 |
| *** gletelli__ is now known as gletelli | 15:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | my meals on saturday night and sunday are typically more expensive | 15:48 |
| * timeless_mbp doesn't cook | 15:48 | |
| SpeedEvil | Cooking is fun! | 15:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | And quick - if you do it right. Slow cooking a _huge_ pot of stuff, and freezing most of it immediately. | 15:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Whip something out, bang in refrigerator. | 15:48 |
| derf | I spend roughly $40/week on groceries and probably less than that on eating out. | 15:48 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 15:48 |
| lcuk | €25 a day is a lot for one person! | 15:48 |
| SpeedEvil | bang in microwave | 15:48 |
| derf | And I don't cook, either. | 15:49 |
| derf | I could cut that down a _lot_, if I had to. | 15:49 |
| timeless_mbp | in the US, i was living on ~$20/week iirc in philadelphia | 15:49 |
| derf | Yeah. | 15:49 |
| timeless_mbp | kraft macaroni and cheese + milk + orange juice | 15:49 |
| timeless_mbp | i could have cut the tropicana oj if i really needed to | 15:50 |
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| derf | I'm not sure I'd recommend that, though. | 15:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i had bagged salads too | 15:50 |
| timeless_mbp | or just lettuce leafs | 15:50 |
| lcuk | with free meat sometimes if small creatures remained | 15:50 |
| timeless_mbp | it was probably healthier than what i get here | 15:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | (which is pretty sad any way you look at it) | 15:51 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: not kosher | 15:51 |
| derf | Remind me not to move there. | 15:51 |
| timeless_mbp | there=? | 15:51 |
| derf | Wherever you are. | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | note that helsinki has a higher base cost for all food elements | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | with the exception, *possibly* of strawberries and cloudberries | 15:52 |
| lcuk | and mushrooms | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | and only for a very small growing season | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: poisonous? :) | 15:52 |
| ShadowJK | Cloudberries :-) | 15:52 |
| tbf | indeed. food is quite expensive in HEL | 15:52 |
| lcuk | timeless, ask aSIMULAtur about that part | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, i think she's mentioned it actually | 15:53 |
| tbf | well, but not half as nuts as flat rents | 15:53 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 15:53 | |
| timeless_mbp | i think in downtown that's around 900 EUR/mo | 15:54 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not sure, i bought | 15:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | it was worth it | 15:54 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: yes, seems buying is the only sane thing you can do in HEL | 15:54 |
| timeless_mbp | it is | 15:55 |
| timeless_mbp | but you have to do it when you arrive | 15:55 |
| timeless_mbp | every year you wait hurts your ability to buy | 15:55 |
| timeless_mbp | because pay does not rise wrt housing value | 15:55 |
| * timeless_mbp has met people who have been here for a couple of years, and they're mostly screwed | 15:55 | |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: yup | 15:56 |
| timeless_mbp | n.b. i'm not saying value rises very fast | 15:56 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm saying that salaries rise much slower! :) | 15:56 |
| timeless_mbp | parse failure: | 15:56 |
| timeless_mbp | an ad for 'korean free economic zones' | 15:56 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone want to try parsing that? :) | 15:57 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: takes a while to understand you have to buy, went you come from some country where you usually rent because it's much cheaper | 15:57 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 15:57 | |
| lcuk | areas in korea where free trading is permitted, or areas of the world where there are no koreans | 15:57 |
| timeless_mbp | poor Poles | 15:57 |
| lcuk | :S | 15:57 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: they meant the former | 15:58 |
| timeless_mbp | too bad the latter is the default parsing | 15:58 |
| lcuk | yeah | 15:58 |
| timeless_mbp | the really sad thing... | 15:58 |
| timeless_mbp | they paid a native speaker to read it | 15:58 |
| timeless_mbp | they should have paid him to tell them to pick something else | 15:58 |
| tbf | add berlin: here you get 200 m² for 900 EUR | 15:58 |
| * timeless_mbp ndos | 15:59 | |
| timeless_mbp | we lost a coworker recently because he got a job in berlin | 15:59 |
| timeless_mbp | he's definitely buying | 15:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok. stupid question | 16:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | if i call HAM "Add/Remove" | 16:01 |
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| timeless_mbp | is there any reason i shouldn't say "Adding (x)" and "Removing (y)" ? | 16:01 |
| timeless_mbp | today we use "Installing" and "Uninstalling" | 16:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I think you should simplify the language. Adding and unadding. | 16:02 |
| * SpeedEvil read 1984. | 16:02 | |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: um... | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia tried that | 16:02 |
| derf | The latter seems plusgood to me. | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | people w/ an n900 can see '%d undone tasks' | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | on their home screen by default... | 16:03 |
| * timeless_mbp grinds teeth | 16:03 | |
| * timeless_mbp finds a nice brick wall and bangs head repeatedly | 16:03 | |
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| jeremiah | I vote for Adding and Removing. | 16:07 |
| timeless_mbp | cool | 16:07 |
| timeless_mbp | it shall be so | 16:07 |
| jeremiah | w00t! | 16:07 |
| * jeremiah passes timeless_mbp a helmet to make the banging a little more comfortable. | 16:08 | |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: yeah | 16:08 |
| timeless_mbp | metal or bicycle? | 16:08 |
| jeremiah | One of those mulit-purpose things | 16:08 |
| jeremiah | You can use it skiing or biking. :) | 16:08 |
| jeremiah | MUAHHAHAHAH AHHAH . . . (more evil laughter) | 16:09 |
| jeremiah | http://wiki.maemo.org/Perl | 16:09 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes thp | 16:09 | |
| timeless_mbp | thp: css really isn't that hard | 16:09 |
| timeless_mbp | surely you could try to diff the default theme against the nasa theme and try to improve them? | 16:10 |
| timeless_mbp | i mean... | 16:10 |
| jeremiah | The syntax of CSS isn't hard, the way it works in various browsers is hard | 16:10 |
| timeless_mbp | css in gecko for pages really isn't very hard | 16:10 |
| timeless_mbp | there's typically a page specific to a ui element | 16:11 |
| timeless_mbp | thp: if i told you which css file to edit, would that help? | 16:11 |
| timeless_mbp | jeremiah: i'm going to replace "Updating {pkg} {ver}" with "{pkg} ({ver})" | 16:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | i think the fact that we're not add/remove-ing should make the update case clear | 16:13 |
| timeless_mbp | and given that pkg versions can be incredibly long, i want every single character i can get | 16:13 |
| * timeless_mbp kicks git/svn versions in deb packaging | 16:13 | |
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| jeremiah | timeless_mbp: Sounds good~ | 16:18 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 16:18 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, i'll be back in a while | 16:18 |
| jeremiah | w00t | 16:18 |
| jeremiah | ~timeless_mbp++ | 16:18 |
| jeremiah | karma timeless_mbp | 16:19 |
| jeremiah | karma ~timeless_mbp | 16:19 |
| jeremiah | ~karma timeless_mbp | 16:19 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp has karma of 1 | 16:19 |
| jeremiah | ~karma jeremiah | 16:19 |
| infobot | jeremiah has neutral karma | 16:19 |
| jeremiah | Goddamn infobot | 16:19 |
| lcuk | ~jeremiah++ | 16:19 |
| jeremiah | Awww. :) | 16:20 |
| jeremiah | I like you lcuk | 16:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ~lcuk-- | 16:20 |
| jeremiah | ~lcuk++ | 16:20 |
| jeremiah | ~lcuk++ | 16:20 |
| jeremiah | :P | 16:20 |
| lcuk | :D | 16:20 |
| jeremiah | Karma wars! | 16:20 |
| lcuk | its an antiwar tho | 16:20 |
| lcuk | jeremiah, have you ever been to a barcamp? | 16:20 |
| jeremiah | Nope. | 16:20 |
| lbt | lcuk: how is/was it | 16:20 |
| lcuk | was really cool | 16:21 |
| lcuk | people from all different backgrounds and specialties | 16:21 |
| jeremiah | What was it? | 16:21 |
| lcuk | i spoke with a couple of your workmates | 16:21 |
| jeremiah | And is there a URL | 16:21 |
| lcuk | http://www.barcamplondon.org/ | 16:21 |
| jeremiah | If it ain't on the internet, it don't exist. | 16:21 |
| lcuk | was in the IBM offices | 16:21 |
| lcuk | 2 day event, started yesterday, i wish i was still there now | 16:22 |
| lcuk | the n900 went down a storm | 16:22 |
| jeremiah | I am sure | 16:22 |
| lcuk | best part was being able to say "nope, the iphone wont do that" | 16:22 |
| lcuk | as i was preparing presentation using device itself | 16:23 |
| lcuk | :D | 16:23 |
| jeremiah | heh | 16:24 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | jeremiah is looking at his iPhone and wants to dock karma off you, lcuk, for that comment | 16:24 |
| lcuk | lol | 16:25 |
| * jeremiah wonders how qwerty12_N810 even knows I have one. | 16:25 | |
| wazd_ | In fact I'm sure that noone here is familliar with iPhone homebrew stuff :) | 16:25 |
| wazd_ | Who knows what is held there :) | 16:25 |
| jeremiah | wazd_: You mean jailbreaking? | 16:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | jeremiah: You told us, in #maemo! :p | 16:26 |
| wazd_ | jeremiah: yep | 16:26 |
| jeremiah | qwerty12_N810: I know. | 16:26 |
| jeremiah | :) | 16:26 |
| lcuk | http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamcohenrose/3401787444/in/pool-barcamplondon | 16:26 |
| lcuk | this reminded me sooooo much of something im working on ;) | 16:26 |
| jeremiah | Cydia is the bomb - apt-get for the iPhone | 16:26 |
| jeremiah | debian everywhere | 16:26 |
| jeremiah | MUAHAHAHHAHH! | 16:27 |
| w00t | and yet, it still sucks | 16:27 |
| * w00t giggles | 16:27 | |
| jeremiah | infobot, slap w00t. | 16:27 |
| * infobot slaps w00t., keep your grubby fingers to yourself! | 16:27 | |
| lcuk | ~w00t-- | 16:27 |
| w00t | :-) | 16:27 |
| lcuk | ;) | 16:27 |
| w00t | oh come on. | 16:27 |
| lcuk | ~w00t++ | 16:27 |
| lcuk | ~w00t++ | 16:27 |
| w00t | we know it's true! | 16:27 |
| w00t | *g* | 16:27 |
| jeremiah | ~w00t++ | 16:27 |
| w00t | how's sunday for everyone, anyway? | 16:28 |
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| jeremiah | Infobot giveth, infobot taketh away. | 16:28 |
| jeremiah | I am having a pleasant Sunday wasting my time with you lot! :) | 16:28 |
| * w00t nods | 16:28 | |
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| Meizirkki | infobot, where did you go? | 16:28 |
| infobot | to hell and back. Saddam says "hi". | 16:28 |
| w00t | what better way to spend a day ;) | 16:28 |
| jeremiah | And trying to make sure the pyside stuff is in the repos. | 16:28 |
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| lbt | when you could be packaging OBS ;) | 16:28 |
| jeremiah | heh | 16:29 |
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| lcuk | i am splitting out the calendar into standalone app today :) | 16:29 |
| * w00t is staring at code and wishing it'd just fix itself | 16:29 | |
| lcuk | whats up | 16:30 |
| lcuk | i was trying to work out how to package on device again last night | 16:30 |
| w00t | just got back to integrating libmatchbox2 into qtablet/qmantle.. painful process | 16:30 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: using that guys rootstrap | 16:30 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: But what is the advantage of packaging on the device? | 16:31 |
| jeremiah | Its just so much slower. | 16:31 |
| lcuk | no its not | 16:31 |
| jeremiah | I know that if you do that you know exactly the dependencies. | 16:31 |
| lcuk | i get to test accelerometer and camera and all the normal device stuff | 16:31 |
| jeremiah | Which is definitely cool | 16:31 |
| w00t | it is a bit more convenient, less farting around | 16:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: Just do it in Scratchbox, FFS. When it comes to the autobuilder, you'll find it much nicer | 16:31 |
| jeremiah | I think qwerty12_N810 is right. | 16:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ~jeremiah++ | 16:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | =) | 16:32 |
| jeremiah | heh | 16:32 |
| lcuk | i have windows :) | 16:32 |
| jeremiah | ~lcuk-- | 16:32 |
| lbt | vmware | 16:32 |
| lcuk | and the damned VM doesnt sit right | 16:32 |
| jeremiah | VirtualBox is your friend. | 16:32 |
| lbt | does vbox work on windows? | 16:33 |
| lcuk | its a system inside a system inside a system | 16:33 |
| * lbt has no windows boxes now | 16:33 | |
| lcuk | im happy building natively | 16:33 |
| lbt | lcuk: so? | 16:33 |
| jeremiah | You asking me? I have no windows boxen | 16:33 |
| lcuk | my apps arent large | 16:33 |
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| lcuk | its not slow | 16:33 |
| jeremiah | I don't even know what windows is. | 16:33 |
| lbt | you suggested it... | 16:33 |
| lcuk | its easy on the mind | 16:33 |
| jeremiah | And I don't know why they call Windows 7 'Karmic Koala' | 16:33 |
| jeremiah | weird | 16:34 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 16:34 |
| * lbt realises that liqbase doesn't have nested windows | 16:34 | |
| lbt | light dawns | 16:34 |
| lcuk | lbt, its fully recursive :D | 16:34 |
| lbt | lcuk isn't recursive | 16:34 |
| lbt | no lisp clearly | 16:34 |
| lcuk | besides, i cant test liqbase on vm | 16:34 |
| Corsac | your mom is recursive | 16:34 |
| lcuk | they dont support yuv from my experience | 16:34 |
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| jeremiah | pyside installs on the fremantle SDK | 16:37 |
| lbt | :D | 16:37 |
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| lcuk | jeremiah, which repo is it in | 16:48 |
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| jeremiah | extras-devel fremantle | 16:48 |
| jeremiah | and extras-devel diablo | 16:49 |
| wazd_ | lbt: Sun VBox works fine | 16:49 |
| wazd_ | lbt: Pre emu uses it in fact :) | 16:49 |
| jeremiah | Sun? What is Sun? Oh maybe you mean Oracle. :P | 16:49 |
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| lbt | wazd_: ta - probably a more open suggestion for windows users who want a vm mgr | 16:49 |
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| wazd_ | lbt: well, at least it's free :D | 16:51 |
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| `Mace | wtf | 16:53 |
| `Mace | zimbra just totally pissed me off | 16:53 |
| `Mace | i don't know what the hell happened but wow is 6.0.x broken | 16:53 |
| `Mace | you would think going from a major rev to a newer one would have been more of a fix.. but zimbra seems more broken than anything else | 16:53 |
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| GAN900 | On the subject of Sun, I saw a talk about MariaDB at FLS yesterday. | 17:06 |
| GAN900 | Looked quite interesting. | 17:06 |
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| dirk2 | Anybody here attended Ameet Suri's (TI) talk at maemo summit? There is some rumor that he talked about porting Maemo5 to BeagleBoard http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/browse_thread/thread/544633dc228c9995# | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | it is in progress | 17:51 |
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| Stskeeps | some SGX issues | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | updates will be on omappedia | 17:51 |
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| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Any web/wiki/mail pages about this? | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | omappedia.org | 17:51 |
| * dirk2 looks | 17:51 | |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: http://omappedia.org/wiki/Maemo_on_OMAP_Project ? | 17:52 |
| Stskeeps | we have an issue with beagle kernel not having a DSS patch that seems to be only in nokia kernel | 17:53 |
| Stskeeps | so nokias patched sgx module doesnt work | 17:53 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Do use Beagle open embedded kernel? | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 17:54 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: So a non-published (nokia-) DSS patch is missing? | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | it is published but not in patch form. dss2 | 17:55 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Wouldn't it be easy to add it then in patch form? We could ask Beagle people | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | yes, if we had the patch | 17:56 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: sorry, it is puplished but we don't have it? | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | dirk2, it is in the nokia code dump of their kernel. trying to track the git commit in nokia trees. | 17:57 |
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| Stskeeps | so we can patch beagle and zoom2 kernel src | 17:57 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Ah, ok, it has to be extracted from a complete kernel drop then (?) | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, and that is what is difficult. so we try to find it in patch form. | 17:59 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: ok, understood. | 17:59 |
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| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Who are the people working on this project? Which e.g. mailing list are they using? Or is it done TI intern? | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | dirk2, it is a bit of a collaborative effort. no mailing list, just talks :P | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | i updated the rootfs generation personally. | 18:02 |
| Stskeeps | and tried to make sgx module from nokia work on oe kernel | 18:02 |
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| Stskeeps | what is your interest? | 18:03 |
| dirk2 | I tried http://maemo-beagle.garage.maemo.org/ and it is somehow outdated. | 18:04 |
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| dirk2 | I then heard the rumor about new porting efforts and couldn't find any status | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | right | 18:04 |
| zeev | Hi, is the release date of N900 known? | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | we are at stage that it boots, sgx fails to initialize. with maemo5.0 binaries. | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | zeev: not to mortal men. | 18:05 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Maybe I could help with some testing, or at least asking questions ;) | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | The elves may know it. | 18:05 |
| zeev | :) ok | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | dirk2, i hope there is more news next week. | 18:06 |
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| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Where to check for these news? Will http://omappedia.org/wiki/Maemo_on_OMAP_Project have recent status? | 18:06 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 18:06 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Great! Thanks! Good luck | 18:06 |
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| vasily_pupkin | hi | 18:12 |
| vasily_pupkin | anybody know, how can i manually invoke maemo vkbd? | 18:13 |
| suihkulokki | vasily_pupkin: I don't remember exactly how, but osso-xterm has code to do that | 18:14 |
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| vasily_pupkin | hm | 18:16 |
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| jeremiah | yuck, core dumps in sbox | 18:17 |
| timeless | oops, wrong window | 18:19 |
| timeless | isn't that normal? | 18:19 |
| timeless | -> jeremiah | 18:20 |
| jeremiah | I suppose | 18:20 |
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| * timeless happens to like when make crashes | 18:21 | |
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| jeremiah | okay, since when does doing a `apt-get remove` change the ownership of /etc/sudoers? | 18:27 |
| thorbjorn | apt-get remove could do anything. :) | 18:27 |
| timeless | if there's an update-suoers call | 18:27 |
| timeless | my packages have them | 18:27 |
| jeremiah | Why would you call update-sudoers? | 18:28 |
| timeless | who became the owner? | 18:28 |
| jeremiah | Well, the call failed, so I dunno | 18:28 |
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| * Stskeeps wonders who made focus of text fields in microb and looks for his garlic and wooden stake | 18:28 | |
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| timeless | i add/remove a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ | 18:28 |
| timeless | heh | 18:28 |
| vasily_pupkin | osso-xterm uses vte | 18:28 |
| jeremiah | oughtn't you do it differently? | 18:29 |
| vasily_pupkin | and emacs uses Stollman Dark Art | 18:29 |
| timeless | differently how? | 18:29 |
| jeremiah | I mean just change owner or chown | 18:29 |
| vasily_pupkin | no wai.. ^_^ | 18:29 |
| jeremiah | or become root? | 18:29 |
| timeless | well, afaik no one should ever do anything other than calling update-sudoers | 18:29 |
| jeremiah | oh really? | 18:29 |
| jeremiah | Hmmm. | 18:29 |
| timeless | i'm not sure how that would ruin ownership | 18:29 |
| jeremiah | Is that maemo policy? | 18:30 |
| timeless | i could be wrong | 18:30 |
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| jeremiah | I'm not saying you are | 18:30 |
| jeremiah | I am just wondering what the scoop is. | 18:30 |
| timeless | it seemed to be The Way (tm) | 18:30 |
| jeremiah | I don't think I am getting these bugs from your software anyway, but from something else | 18:30 |
| suihkulokki | someone is trying to install a backdoor? | 18:30 |
| jeremiah | I think the mafw-dbus-* is a wee bit buggy | 18:30 |
| timeless | oh | 18:31 |
| timeless | wouldn't shock me | 18:31 |
| timeless | i think i crashed it an hour ago :) | 18:31 |
| * Stskeeps wonders if debs exist for tear for fremantle. | 18:31 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: extras-devel. | 18:32 |
| timeless | btw, i tried to install fmradio | 18:32 |
| timeless | it didn't work | 18:32 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: I thought I just saw lbt say he had built some tear debs on OBS | 18:32 |
| timeless | do i need black magic? | 18:32 |
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| Proteous | black wizard needs food badly | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: webkit not installable according to apt-get | 18:33 |
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| * timeless is eating chinese w/ chopsticks | 18:33 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | It installed here | 18:33 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm. | 18:34 |
| timeless | hrm, it's working here w/ 39, i failed w/ 37 on python reqs | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | why on earth doesnt apt-cache search show libwebkit.. | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | ah. | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | non-free | 18:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: non-free? | 18:36 |
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| lardman | evening all | 18:36 |
| vasily_pupkin | anybody had success with building ruby/JIT? | 18:36 |
| jeremiah | lardy! | 18:36 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: as far as I know it's perfectly free | 18:36 |
| lardman | hey jeremiah | 18:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | w00t: Scratchbox problems | 18:37 |
| jeremiah | I install ruby thusly: apt-get install perl | 18:37 |
| jeremiah | :P | 18:37 |
| vasily_pupkin | heh | 18:37 |
| w00t | qwerty12_N810: hmm? | 18:37 |
| jeremiah | </religious war> | 18:37 |
| vasily_pupkin | but cool boys from metasploit make perl=>ruby rotation | 18:37 |
| jeremiah | Mmmm, metasploit | 18:38 |
| * timeless was going to guess that as a tribute to microb they had named it libgtkkitweb | 18:38 | |
| vasily_pupkin | and this stuff is veeeerryyyyyy sloooooooooooow | 18:38 |
| vasily_pupkin | :] | 18:38 |
| timeless | but non-free is also a good gecko tribute | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | w00t, non-free = no src package | 18:38 |
| w00t | :-/ | 18:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | w00t: Bundyo, the maintainer of WebKit for Maemo, couldn't get it built under Scratchbox. The autobuilder for uploading packages into free, uses scratchbox. non-free allows direct uploads of debs (with source) so he had to upload it there | 18:38 |
| w00t | :-/ | 18:39 |
| timeless | non-free = builders/sbox suck | 18:39 |
| * w00t sets scratchbox on fire | 18:39 | |
| jeremiah | We need a repo that is called scratchbox-fail | 18:39 |
| timeless | get in line ;) | 18:39 |
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| w00t | hehe | 18:39 |
| jeremiah | pffft! Mine is already just a heap of glowing coals. | 18:39 |
| w00t | god it's cold today. | 18:40 |
| * jeremiah pours more napalm on fire | 18:40 | |
| timeless | oh brother | 18:40 |
| timeless | fmradio requires headphones? | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | like on n800 | 18:40 |
| jeremiah | no, please say that isn't so | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 18:41 |
| timeless | is the fmradio app guy online? | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | it needs an antenna alas. | 18:41 |
| timeless | his english is bad | 18:41 |
| timeless | so if he doesn't pong, he will be translated | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Almost certainly - the reception without an antenna will be very, very bad unless you're in an unusually strong sitnal area | 18:41 |
| timeless | and i just watched the Bones episode about translated | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | g | 18:41 |
| lardman | hmm, anyone else noticed that libgdigicam isn't available in any of the repos? | 18:42 |
| * timeless wonders how many people here got the reference or went to ask google | 18:43 | |
| lardman | at least none of the ones I've got working in sb | 18:43 |
| lardman | hmm, seems to build ok, which is a good sign | 18:44 |
| timeless | what should it do? | 18:46 |
| lardman | well, building is a good thing | 18:46 |
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| lardman | I'd just thought there might be a package in one of the repos, rather than build your own from git | 18:47 |
| lardman | but np | 18:47 |
| timeless | what should it do? | 18:48 |
| lbt | qwerty12_N810: webkit from extras was one of my test compiles in the accel/cross-gcc .... built last night on OBS | 18:48 |
| lbt | prolly an old version libwebkit-1.0-1_1.0-svn41137-13mer3 | 18:49 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lbt: further proof that Scratchbox is an abomination :( | 18:49 |
| lbt | *nod* | 18:49 |
| lardman | yay, it built, /me celebrates by finding a glass of wine | 18:49 |
| lcuk | right in front of you where it normally lives :P | 18:49 |
| lcuk | infact, just reach over to the cask | 18:49 |
| lardman | nah, that one's empty ; | 18:49 |
| lcuk | heh | 18:50 |
| timeless | you don't get wine of the month? | 18:50 |
| timeless | or does that arrive later this week :? | 18:51 |
| lbt | whine of the month is the N00 shipping date | 18:51 |
| Ceron^ | doesnt the n900 auto-rotate work yet? | 18:51 |
| Ceron^ | what about virtual keyboard :o | 18:51 |
| Ceron^ | those didnt work at altparty | 18:51 |
| timeless | ceron: very few apps do it | 18:52 |
| lbt | Shopper does | 18:52 |
| timeless | a couple more will in an update | 18:52 |
| lbt | nyah | 18:52 |
| lbt | course it's not released yet | 18:52 |
| timeless | browser does internally | 18:52 |
| lbt | browser is so good it rotates twice! | 18:52 |
| timeless | yeah, if we wait long enough, browser could in FCS :) | 18:52 |
| jeremiah | Cannot even stop the friggin' scratchbox! | 18:52 |
| timeless | jeremiah: feature | 18:53 |
| lbt | jeremiah: the sooner we package OBS... the sooner we kill sbox | 18:53 |
| jeremiah | kill Kill KILL! | 18:53 |
| qwerty12_N810 | typedef GdkColor GdkColour; bliss.... | 18:53 |
| * lbt says "optify" | 18:53 | |
| jeremiah | Great. Now I have to rm -rf /scratchbox | 18:53 |
| * timeless slaps qwerty | 18:53 | |
| lbt | and watches jeremiah | 18:53 |
| jeremiah | and re-install | 18:53 |
| timeless | jeremiah: um | 18:54 |
| * jeremiah beats scratchbox with a rake | 18:54 | |
| timeless | do yourself a favor | 18:54 |
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| Proteous | hah, the volume on the flash video player on the bbc site goes up to 11 :) | 18:54 |
| timeless | create users: sbox-arm, sbox-x86 | 18:54 |
| timeless | change their uid and homedir to yours | 18:54 |
| timeless | use sbox-adduser | 18:55 |
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| * lardman considers how much nicer Ubuntu 9.10 is than 9.4 (and 8.4 LTS) | 18:55 | |
| jeremiah | well, maybe | 18:55 |
| timeless | then you can have multiple scratchboxes at the same time | 18:55 |
| jeremiah | timeless: Yeah, I'll try that. | 18:55 |
| jeremiah | lardman: Do you think it is nicer? It looks nicer | 18:55 |
| timeless | lardman: do you have an n900: | 18:55 |
| jeremiah | I put it on my Acer One, but I might switch. | 18:56 |
| lardman | yeah looks nicer | 18:56 |
| qwerty12_N810 | jeremiah: :O | 18:56 |
| lardman | hasn't locked up hard yet, unlike 9.4 | 18:56 |
| achipa_irssi | a quickie - is there a way to (temporarily) disable the cam app from popping up on cover open ? | 18:56 |
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| jeremiah | eeebuntu is Switching to debian and I want to use that. | 18:56 |
| lardman | achipa_irssi, I'm interested in being able to choose a different app to auto-open | 18:56 |
| qwerty12_N810 | achipa_irssi: rm /usr/bin/camera-ui.launch... | 18:57 |
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| * timeless slaps qwerty | 18:57 | |
| lardman | nice one qwerty12_N810 :) | 18:57 |
| timeless | that's a bit forceful.. | 18:57 |
| achipa_irssi | qwerty12_N810: that would be SLIGHLTY overaggressive :) | 18:57 |
| lardman | does something call that? | 18:58 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Technically, it would work... :p | 18:58 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ke-recv, probably | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, segfault of tear | 18:58 |
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| * Stskeeps wonders if his hw is broken | 18:58 | |
| achipa_irssi | thought maybe something as an an elegant 'thank you I'll take it from here' dbus msg or sorts :) | 18:59 |
| uhsf | Since my media player was stolen yesterday I took the decision to buy a n900 when it comes out. | 18:59 |
| Stskeeps | welcome in the queue | 18:59 |
| lardman | achipa_irssi, may well be possible. Email the maemo-devel list, I'll be interested in the answer too | 18:59 |
| achipa_irssi | lardman: ok | 19:00 |
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| * achipa_irssi feels like a spokesperson - everybody asks him to write to the lists | 19:00 | |
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| lardman | lol | 19:00 |
| timeless | from memory, there was a way in n8x0 | 19:00 |
| timeless | check gconf first.. | 19:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | There was a GConf key, somewhere; change its service name (for N8X0) | 19:01 |
| timeless | now you can be a spelunker too | 19:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hmm, don't think that same GConf key has any effect for N900: it lists the VoIP app... | 19:02 |
| lardman | does the GDK_BUTTON_PRESS_MASK event mask result in a "clicked" event? | 19:04 |
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| derf | lardman: Is your barcode code still supposed to compile for the N8x0? | 19:04 |
| lardman | for a GtkDrawingarea | 19:04 |
| lardman | derf, should do, but not tried since I split it into separate machine specific files | 19:04 |
| derf | No package 'libosso-abook-1.0' found | 19:05 |
| lardman | ah | 19:05 |
| lardman | yeah, I need to make some changes | 19:05 |
| derf | I've got osso-addressbook-1.0 | 19:05 |
| lardman | I've put zbar back as the backend | 19:05 |
| lardman | probably need to do another push | 19:05 |
| lardman | and alter some of the Makefile stuff | 19:05 |
| timeless | so.. does Martin Grimme irc? | 19:06 |
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| lardman | derf: are you busting to try it, or can you wait till tomorrow - I'll sort out the N8x0 build stuff this evening | 19:06 |
| derf | lardman: I can wait. | 19:07 |
| derf | I have no shortage of other things I should be doing. | 19:07 |
| lardman | :) | 19:07 |
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| Lotto | http://action.metaffiliation.com/suivi.php?mclic=S42350516A5D1117 | 19:07 |
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| lardman | np, will push my changes this evening, and make sure it builds for both machines | 19:07 |
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| * RST38h moos at lardman and derf | 19:09 | |
| * timeless pokes lotto with a fork | 19:09 | |
| derf | moo000000000000000000ooooooooooooooooooooooo0ooooooooo0o0 | 19:09 |
| timeless | what are you and why the spam? | 19:09 |
| lardman | mooo :) | 19:09 |
| * RST38h has optified ATI85, fMSX, and Speccy. What is new in this internet tube? | 19:09 | |
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| lcuk | has anyone tried cloning fremantle to mmc | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | mm, me | 19:11 |
| lcuk | how well did it work | 19:11 |
| lcuk | with the /top issue | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | top? | 19:11 |
| timeless | /top? | 19:11 |
| lcuk | opt | 19:11 |
| lcuk | sorry | 19:11 |
| timeless | fremantle shouldn't really care | 19:11 |
| lardman | and thoughts on what GDK_EVENT_MASK I require to produce a "clicked" signal on a GtkDrawingArea? | 19:12 |
| lcuk | no, but cloning must also clone the opt area | 19:12 |
| timeless | /opt as a symlink is an fs detail | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, as expected.. rming the symlink would help | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | and copying opt manually | 19:12 |
| derf | lardman: GDK_BUTTON_PRESS_MASK | 19:12 |
| lcuk | ok, its just a few more steps but feasible. cool | 19:14 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, i dont suppose you made notes whilst you did it ? | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, have to wait for final sw to finish bootmenu | 19:16 |
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| Stskeeps | then its a matter of adding an item and rsyncing over the fs | 19:17 |
| achipa_irssi | lardman: it's not clicked, but 'button-press-event' | 19:17 |
| derf | Right, that too. | 19:18 |
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| timeless | hrm | 19:21 |
| timeless | isn't there a package that "owns" /opt? | 19:21 |
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| timeless | base-files | 19:23 |
| lardman | ah ok, thanks chaps | 19:23 |
| derf | There's a separate event for button releases, too. | 19:24 |
| timeless | jeremiah: ping | 19:24 |
| timeless | if i have a package foo | 19:24 |
| derf | (with a separate event mask) | 19:24 |
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| timeless | that owns a symlink /var/stupid => /tmp/stupid | 19:25 |
| timeless | and the use converts /var/stupid into a directory | 19:25 |
| timeless | what happens when the user updates my package to foo-1.1? | 19:25 |
| crashanddie | timeless, the symlink creation will fail | 19:26 |
| crashanddie | timeless, and the application will attempt to use the contents of the /var/stupid directory | 19:26 |
| timeless | the package will safely update? | 19:26 |
| crashanddie | I don't know | 19:27 |
| timeless | that's the interesting part :) | 19:27 |
| crashanddie | Don't know enough about dpkg to know if it atomically checks the execution state of every operation | 19:27 |
| timeless | you could test ;) | 19:27 |
| crashanddie | timeless, if you want it to work | 19:27 |
| * timeless is finishing dinner | 19:27 | |
| timeless | me? | 19:27 |
| timeless | the package in question is base-files | 19:28 |
| crashanddie | timeless, you might as well just put a test, to see if the symlink already exists or directory for that matter | 19:28 |
| crashanddie | timeless, you're asking the question, you have the opportunity to test it yourself, so just do it | 19:28 |
| timeless | someone should figure out the answer before they do a fremantle to mmc thing | 19:28 |
| crashanddie | timeless, don't expect others to take care of your shit | 19:28 |
| timeless | not my shit | 19:28 |
| wazd_ | just curious, anybody got the reply from forum.nokia yet? :) | 19:28 |
| ali1234 | crashanddie: 1. trying this test on base-files is extremely likely to brick the device | 19:28 |
| timeless | someone else suggested flattening | 19:29 |
| ali1234 | crashanddie: 2. putting in a test against every file in the package to check if it is a symlink is retarded | 19:29 |
| crashanddie | ali1234, why every file in the package? | 19:29 |
| achipa_irssi | wazd_: yes, there were some replies on t.m.o. | 19:29 |
| timeless | i'm suggesting someone should test before they go about converting | 19:29 |
| ali1234 | crashanddie: because any file may or may not have been converted to a symlink by the users | 19:29 |
| timeless | the brick state could easily appear much later | 19:29 |
| ali1234 | therefor you'd have to put a check for every file in every package | 19:30 |
| crashanddie | how about just tell people not to do that? Or at least, explain it wouldn't be supported? | 19:30 |
| crashanddie | just check the main directory, and act on that. If people want to change single files, it's their problem to keep it maintained | 19:30 |
| timeless | converting rootfs to mmc isn't supported? | 19:31 |
| timeless | wow | 19:31 |
| wazd_ | achipa_irssi: thx | 19:31 |
| lcuk | timeless, Stskeeps said he has done it | 19:31 |
| timeless | very helpful | 19:31 |
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| timeless | yeah | 19:31 |
| lcuk | so if its feasible and runs | 19:31 |
| timeless | but we haven't shipped an updated base-files package | 19:31 |
| lcuk | then we can just wait | 19:31 |
| timeless | the question is whether the device would fail in some way if that happened | 19:32 |
| * lcuk nods | 19:32 | |
| lcuk | i was concerned for the same thing | 19:32 |
| ali1234 | rootfs on sd should not create any extra symlinks anyway | 19:32 |
| timeless | just because you can freeze state doesn't mean you can migrate safely | 19:32 |
| wazd_ | jeez, 16:9 display in portrait mode is absolutely sick :D | 19:32 |
| timeless | we're talking about replacing one symlink w/ a dir | 19:33 |
| wazd_ | not sure if anyone in the world uses it like that :) | 19:33 |
| timeless | i just don't know how apt would handle that case when it updates the owning package | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | there is no reason at all to do it | 19:33 |
| timeless | wazd: details? | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | just keep the symlink... | 19:33 |
| timeless | ali: eh? | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | and everything will be fine | 19:34 |
| ali1234 | timeless: you're talking about not having /opt on a different filesystem | 19:34 |
| timeless | yep | 19:34 |
| ali1234 | timeless: well you can keep /home/opt and keep /opt as a symlink to that, even if they're on the same fs | 19:34 |
| Flyser | Is it possible to "rescue" a n900 if the kernel refuses to boot? | 19:34 |
| ali1234 | therefore no reason to get rid of the symlink | 19:34 |
| ali1234 | nothing will change | 19:34 |
| timeless | i guess you could keep that symlink... | 19:34 |
| Flyser | or boot from µSD? | 19:34 |
| timeless | ok :) | 19:34 |
| RST38h | wazd: So, you actually tried it in portrait mode? =) (moo) | 19:35 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: yeah | 19:35 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: It's way too tall :) | 19:36 |
| timeless | flyser: technically yes | 19:36 |
| timeless | if you have a super ceret hypothetical jig | 19:36 |
| RST38h | wazd: You just haven't got a large enough pdf :) | 19:36 |
| timeless | you can ask the bootloader to load an arbitrary kernel | 19:36 |
| Flyser | timeless: by using the debug ports under the battery? | 19:37 |
| timeless | in practice, there are to my knowledge no public images | 19:37 |
| timeless | flyser: hypothetically | 19:37 |
| Flyser | okay ... | 19:37 |
| Flyser | is there a known solution for n8x0 devices? | 19:37 |
| timeless | there are images of mer that can boot from mmc | 19:38 |
| timeless | for n8x0 | 19:38 |
| lcuk | ali1234, sharing /opt between 2 different booting systems will cause problems with switching etc | 19:38 |
| RST38h | http://www.revdkathy.co.uk/images/dearlordpunch.jpg <=== Oh, the Tentacled One, I know their lrd does not grant wishes like that, but YOU MAY! | 19:38 |
| timeless | and the flasher for all of them can enable mmc booting | 19:38 |
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| RST38h | hey avdvsx | 19:38 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: i never said anything about sharing it | 19:38 |
| Flyser | timeless: great. thanks for the information :-) | 19:38 |
| wazd_ | VDVsx: heya | 19:38 |
| timeless | someday mer will boot the n900 | 19:39 |
| timeless | not sure when | 19:39 |
| timeless | soon? | 19:39 |
| VDVsx | hey RST38h & wazd_ :) | 19:39 |
| * lcuk waves at VDVsx | 19:39 | |
| pupnik | is nokia polishing up software and somehow going to mass flash biolt devices just before shipping? | 19:39 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: I have a drool worthy present for you :D | 19:39 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: http://s46.radikal.ru/i113/0910/e8/a69dda8c71a6.png | 19:39 |
| w00t | eww | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 19:40 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, google is the perfect company for you, they have a tons of bacon here ;) | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: runs already | 19:40 |
| timeless | biolt?? | 19:40 |
| lcuk | mmmmmmmmm | 19:41 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: i'd bloody hope so, otherwise i'm going to cry when i try dualbooting mine when(if?) i ever get it | 19:41 |
| w00t | :P | 19:41 |
| lcuk | i filled in dietary requirements for barcamp as "bacon" | 19:41 |
| lcuk | but they didn't oblige :( | 19:41 |
| lcuk | the food was lovely tho! | 19:41 |
| w00t | http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/bacon-bra-01.jpg | 19:41 |
| lcuk | thats not cooked | 19:42 |
| w00t | hehe | 19:42 |
| timeless | less grease? | 19:42 |
| lcuk | take it off and put it under the grill (and post more pics whilst waiting :D) | 19:42 |
| w00t | lol | 19:42 |
| RST38h | wazd: drooooooooooooooooo....ooool | 19:43 |
| timeless | it's presumably softer and more form fitting this way.. | 19:43 |
| lcuk | indeed it is timeless but its not exactly edible | 19:44 |
| pupnik | i have seen a squidbra | 19:44 |
| w00t | why on earth would anyone use a http accelerator for a bra | 19:44 |
| w00t | </awfuljoke> | 19:44 |
| timeless | i presume that would be rather uncomfortable | 19:45 |
| * VDVsx is in a session about multimedia/drm/codecs :) | 19:45 | |
| pupnik | cool where what | 19:45 |
| VDVsx | pun | 19:45 |
| VDVsx | 19:45 | |
| wazd_ | RST38h: but it's really hard to move head up and down due to large screen size | 19:45 |
| pupnik | btw we dont have videos of most 2009 summit talks. i made a couple but it would be best if we had the audio from the board | 19:46 |
| timeless | board? | 19:46 |
| pupnik | mixer - the microphones | 19:46 |
| pupnik | im sometimes the geek that makes sure that happens | 19:47 |
| timeless | why didn't you this time ;? | 19:47 |
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| pupnik | i saw folks with real cameras filming | 19:48 |
| timeless | props ;) | 19:48 |
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| pupnik | ill volunteer next time | 19:48 |
| timeless | so, i'm still collecting string feedback.. | 19:50 |
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| timeless | hey, do .desktop files support passing args to prograsms? | 19:51 |
| timeless | s/sms/ms/ | 19:51 |
| infobot | timeless meant: hey, do .desktop files support passing args to programs? | 19:51 |
| RST38h | wazd: get glasses, move the screen away =) | 19:52 |
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| epa_ | can anyone verify what happens in their N900 when one presses with left thumb keys 'swde' and right thumb 'i' | 19:54 |
| ali1234 | looks like zoom out | 19:55 |
| lcuk | the same that happens when you press keys anyway | 19:56 |
| epa_ | ali1234: so it's in photo application? | 19:56 |
| lcuk | you get contacts search | 19:56 |
| epa_ | because I get volume down | 19:56 |
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| lcuk | ahh if you are in an app | 19:56 |
| lcuk | that might be different | 19:56 |
| epa_ | lcuk: yes it goes to contact search when you press 'swed' | 19:56 |
| epa_ | but when you after that press 'i' I get volume down | 19:56 |
| lcuk | heh | 19:57 |
| epa_ | really wierd 'shortcut' | 19:57 |
| lcuk | press other keys too | 19:57 |
| lcuk | the contacts search does multipresses | 19:57 |
| lcuk | contacts search doesnt bob up from the dashboard | 19:57 |
| * lcuk files bug | 19:57 | |
| pupnik | can n810 playback vimeo? | 19:58 |
| lardman | derf: thanks, saw that one, just wondered if I could get a "clicked" event, like e.g. from a button | 19:58 |
| lardman | but the button-press-event should be fine | 19:58 |
| epa_ | also 'aqsw' + 'io' gives volume down | 19:59 |
| epa_ | I think there might be some 'bug' in keyboard handling | 19:59 |
| derf | lardman: No, you can't. | 20:00 |
| derf | "clicked" is a complex interaction. | 20:00 |
| epa_ | I think it must be a bug since I can't find 'volume up' from anywhere in such combination | 20:00 |
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| lcuk | epa_, multitouch keypresses! :D | 20:04 |
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| uhsf | maemo doesn't feature multitouch | 20:05 |
| Proteous | it's a hidden feature | 20:05 |
| Proteous | to unlock it you have to press up up down down left right left right a b b a | 20:05 |
| uhsf | that's not true | 20:05 |
| Proteous | but watch out because in maemo2 that makes your ship blow up | 20:05 |
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| Proteous | wait, what are we talking about again? | 20:06 |
| pupnik | picodrive kind of works if anyone has gumption | 20:07 |
| uhsf | i don't really know what multitouch features are anyway it seems so overhyped | 20:08 |
| lcuk | multitouch on a large format display is natural | 20:09 |
| lcuk | on small devices its contrived | 20:09 |
| derf | Man, kids these days don't even know the Konami code. | 20:09 |
| Proteous | I know, it's sad | 20:09 |
| Proteous | my jokes are all worthless on the new generation | 20:10 |
| crashanddie | derf, because it was released 25 years ago and only in north america | 20:10 |
| * qwerty12_N810 finds it a more fun exercise remembering the GTA cheat codes, instead | 20:10 | |
| Proteous | damnit, now I feel old | 20:10 |
| derf | Proteous: It's okay, you got it wrong. | 20:10 |
| Proteous | what about the doom cheat codes | 20:10 |
| Proteous | too many left rights? | 20:10 |
| crashanddie | Proteous, that being said, it's the cheat code in half life 2 | 20:10 |
| derf | It's just b a, not a b b a. | 20:11 |
| Proteous | ah, mixing it up with the code for ikari warriors | 20:11 |
| Proteous | sorry | 20:11 |
| derf | I forgive you. | 20:11 |
| Proteous | heh | 20:11 |
| Proteous | ikari warriors extra lives code was just a b b a... | 20:12 |
| Proteous | what a bugtastic game that was | 20:12 |
| RST38h | Ikari Warriors...yes, you can play it on the tablet | 20:13 |
| Proteous | the challenge with that game (since you could have as many extra lives as you want) was to see if you could finish the game before the bugeness grew to an unplayable amount | 20:13 |
| frals | iddqd idkfa ;o | 20:13 |
| Proteous | :) | 20:13 |
| crashanddie | echo "Get off my lawn!" > Proteous | 20:14 |
| Proteous | heh | 20:14 |
| derf | I always liked "gabbagabbahey". | 20:15 |
| RST38h | cthulhu fhtagn | 20:15 |
| crashanddie | next he's going to sing us the mov bx,ax song | 20:16 |
| Proteous | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4 | 20:17 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: ldmia r13!,{r0,r3,r5,r7,r8,r11,r15} ! | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | can someone try to trigger full screen video @ http://www.healthguru.com/content/video/watch/100786/Set_Up_Success_with_Breakfast ? | 20:20 |
| RST38h | or even ldmiacc | 20:20 |
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| crashanddie | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0bn3oQqHAU | 20:21 |
| Proteous | lol | 20:22 |
| Firebird | :o, http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt/Finger_Scrolling doesn't work | 20:23 |
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| epa_ | are people getting "C++ compiler cannot create executables" when running ./configure in scratchbox? | 20:27 |
| epa_ | something is not at it's rightful place or something? | 20:28 |
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| derf | Most likely an invalid flag passed to the compiler. | 20:29 |
| derf | E.g., an intel-specific flag in the arm target, or vice versa. | 20:29 |
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| lcuk | epa_, i saw that with someone the other night | 20:34 |
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| lardman | derf: ok, thanks | 20:36 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Which oe recipe you are using for Maemo beagle kernel? I want to check which patches are used by this recipe. 2.6.31? http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/linux/linux-omap_2.6.31.bb?h=stable/2009 ? | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | dirk2: sorry, i am in .dk and my desktop is in .pl | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | i tried 2.6.28 to match with nokia kernel | 20:40 |
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| uhsf | i needed a n900 now so badly, the delay bugs me. | 20:42 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Hmm, http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/linux/linux-omap_2.6.28.bb?h=stable/2009 uses other DSS2 patches than 2.6.31 recipe ... | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 20:43 |
| w00t | uhsf: welcome to the club, enjoy your stay :-) | 20:43 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, there are a couple hundred spare n900s floating around | 20:44 |
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| * w00t shakes fist | 20:45 | |
| __t | which wifi standards are supported by the n900 | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | dirk2, got one that contains omap_dispc_set_plane_ba0? | 20:45 |
| timeless_mbp | b/g ? | 20:45 |
| dmj7261 | N900 is not exactly the perfect device for avoiding envvy | 20:45 |
| __t | i am going to setup a videostreaming wireless network for next saturday. | 20:46 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: As file name or function name inside the patch? | 20:46 |
| __t | are there any videostreaming solutions suggested besides qik. | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | dirk2: function | 20:46 |
| timeless_mbp | the n900 has some support for WPS | 20:46 |
| timeless_mbp | but i've had little luck getting it to work | 20:46 |
| * dirk2 doesn't have all the patches on his disk, but looks in an other oe clone | 20:47 | |
| Stskeeps | dirk2, thanks for helping | 20:48 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: In my recipes/linux directory I have no patch which contains omap_dispc_set_plane* | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | k | 20:49 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: But as mentioned, I don't have an original oe clone | 20:49 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Just an overo one, not sure what is different there | 20:49 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Is omap_dispc_set_plane_ba0() the missing function? | 20:50 |
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| Stskeeps | one of them | 20:50 |
| Stskeeps | wish i had my workspace here | 20:50 |
| * dirk2 scans omap-linux mailing list archive for omap_dispc_set_plane_ba0, without success | 20:51 | |
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| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Do you have somewhere a list of what is missing? | 20:54 |
| dirk2 | Ah, and anybody with a link to the Maemo5 Nokia kernel sources? | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/k/kernel | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | err | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/k/kernel | 20:56 |
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| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Hmm, what's the best one to look at? The diff.gz ? | 20:58 |
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| wazd_ | will you guys be upset if I'll finish all my current stuff and quit maemo developing? | 20:58 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd_: :( definately. but food first, oss later | 21:00 |
| b-man17 | can anyone help me with this?: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=357790&postcount=5 | 21:00 |
| lbt | wazd_: you bored? Fancy making a logo for "Linux Raid" ? better than this : http://linux-raid.osdl.org/skins/common/images/linux-raid.png | 21:00 |
| wazd_ | Stskeeps: well, that's not so much bout food | 21:00 |
| wazd_ | Stskeeps: it's about fun | 21:00 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: Have you tried to apply Beagle patches to stuff from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/k/kernel/ ? | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: yeah.. that is always a factor | 21:01 |
| wazd_ | Stskeeps: and btw, I didn't mean Mer :) | 21:01 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd_: i sincerely believe you should be paid for your good work | 21:02 |
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| Stskeeps | if a hobby isnt fun, you should atleast be ;p | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | dirk2: i think that func is just exporting _dispc_set_plane_ba0 as a symbol | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | lemme see | 21:03 |
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| wazd_ | Stskeeps: well, it was fun when I was developing for M4 | 21:04 |
| wazd_ | Stskeeps: and now it looks more like pain in the ass for me, so I'm a bit tired | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | but with no n900 it isnt cos you have to wait to see the effect? | 21:04 |
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| dirk2 | Stskeeps: I mean take the Nokia kernel and make it work with (some additional?) patches on Beagle, and not taking the Beagle kernel and trying to make it Nokia compatible. That is, ignoring the kernel build by OE for Beagle. | 21:05 |
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| Stskeeps | dirk2: didnt try the opposite yet, no | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | but that might be worth it | 21:07 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: This would mean: Nokia kernel + http://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/linux/linux-omap_2.6.28.bb?h=stable/2009 patches (not taking the dss patches, as they should be in that kernel already) | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | worth a try maybe | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | i think i tried but i am not a good kernel hacker :P | 21:08 |
| dirk2 | Stskeeps: and then taking the Beagle defconfig and merging the Nokia display config into it | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | the issue is solving this issue for beagle, zoom2 etc | 21:09 |
| wazd_ | lbt: is that a real logo? :D | 21:10 |
| lbt | stunning isn't it ! | 21:10 |
| lbt | I'm so proud of that | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: soon enough you can help with m5 with your n8x0 :P | 21:11 |
| lbt | minutes of hard slog! | 21:11 |
| wazd_ | lbt: yeah, I'm actually trying to locte my ejected brain right now :D | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | dirk2, could you try that direction maybe? could be good progress | 21:12 |
| lbt | look, the concept is sound! | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | just a building kernel and seeing what breaks | 21:13 |
| wazd_ | Stskeeps: I'd rather prefer to focus on Mer | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: :nod: | 21:13 |
| w00t | who wouldn't | 21:13 |
| w00t | :-) | 21:13 |
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| * Stskeeps passes wazd_ a cookie | 21:14 | |
| w00t | where's mine? | 21:14 |
| * wazd_ nom-nom-noms | 21:14 | |
| * lbt fixes Mer:Devel | 21:14 | |
| w00t | ../lib/libQTabletWall.so.1: undefined symbol: _ZTVN7qtablet17FuckingToolButtonE | 21:14 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: meet w00t, he is writing a qtablet based wm mimicing fremantle desktop | 21:14 |
| * w00t wonders what he broke | 21:14 | |
| lbt | glib2.0 just built | 21:14 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, that was quick | 21:14 |
| lbt | for armv5el | 21:14 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: did you see my question on #mer about the 0.17testing? :) | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | Corsac: nop | 21:15 |
| wazd_ | Stskeeps: w00t: oh, nice job :) I was skeptical bout it though, don't remember why exactly :) | 21:15 |
| w00t | wazd_: i'm still sceptical about it, and i'm writing it ;) | 21:16 |
| w00t | but we'll see | 21:16 |
| w00t | it might work out | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: we have a bunch of guys interested in low res hildon/mer.. something you can make concepts on? android refugees | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | 320x480 and 640x480 | 21:17 |
| wazd_ | Stskeeps: tamagochi style :) | 21:17 |
| w00t | that is rather low res | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: yeah | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | but possible | 21:18 |
| w00t | wrong w | 21:18 |
| w00t | ;) | 21:18 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd_: and hildon on e-ink touch devices | 21:18 |
| wazd_ | Stskeeps: well, my UI concepts was optimized for 640x480 (Loox) | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | wazd, so you have the chance to be ui hero of new devices ;) | 21:20 |
| wazd_ | Stskeeps: heh | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | 320x480 is just small though.. | 21:21 |
| wazd_ | Stskeeps: nobody takes me serious so I'm not so sure bout that path of my destiny :D | 21:21 |
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| wazd_ | Stskeeps: 320x240 is small :) | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: you just lack a cape and latex suit, like superheroes | 21:22 |
| wazd_ | Stskeeps: who told you that I don't have latex suit? :D | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: after seeing you on fb i shouldnt have questioned you :P | 21:23 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: adding #mer to autojoin is a good start :) | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | a lot of discussions where in the middle i realize you are missing | 21:24 |
| * w00t agrees | 21:24 | |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 21:25 |
| lcuk | 320*240 isnt small | 21:25 |
| lcuk | it would run really well | 21:25 |
| * lcuk can see a 320*240 watch concept working well :) | 21:27 | |
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| Stskeeps | mer on touchscreen watch | 21:28 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 21:29 | |
| lcuk | yeah if oyu can get your ui down it would work | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone here familiar w/ internet radio? | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | like, what format does the media player support? :) | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | and can someone suggest a url to a supported station which isn't included in the default list? | 21:29 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, bluetooth to your phone but have it as a remote display | 21:29 |
| lcuk | run on a low power arm | 21:29 |
| lcuk | :D heh | 21:29 |
| lcuk | no need for heavy stuff | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, maemo sideshow | 21:30 |
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| lcuk | haha | 21:30 |
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| lcuk | having said that, wazd ive got a lighter here. im still waiting for the build instructions to get mer running on it | 21:30 |
| bmidgley | SpeedEvil... fwiw, my homebrew access point works after switching from an rt73pci to ath5k card | 21:31 |
| bmidgley | https is very responsive now | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | its what you smoke with it that gives the mer experience | 21:31 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, i am comfortable thinking in loq resolution, remember liq* stuff natively "just works" at whatever, and right now on my screen there are many things showing at around 128*128 | 21:31 |
| lcuk | low | 21:32 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 21:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | bmidgley dd | 21:33 |
| SpeedEvil | o | 21:33 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 21:35 | |
| * timeless_mbp posts a bug in something | 21:35 | |
| * timeless_mbp wonders why no one complained | 21:35 | |
| timeless_mbp | s/posts/spots/ | 21:36 |
| lcuk | which bug? | 21:36 |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 21:36 | |
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| timeless_mbp | my translation has a word or three missing | 21:36 |
| lcuk | i posted another bug! | 21:36 |
| timeless_mbp | in a message that i'm sure was too long for anyone to read | 21:36 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk++ | 21:36 |
| lcuk | :D | 21:37 |
| lcuk | whether or not it was a bug, i will just post things now as i spot them, i remembered my login finally | 21:38 |
| lcuk | there was a talk yesterday at barcamp about perfect bug reporting and monitoring and stuff | 21:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - perfect bug reporting will never be achieved. | 21:39 |
| * lcuk will find its title and see if i can find some info | 21:39 | |
| lcuk | yeah | 21:39 |
| lcuk | but getting the best possible | 21:39 |
| SpeedEvil | because a perfect bug report always comes with a patch. | 21:39 |
| lcuk | that implies the build system is on the device for the end user to rebuild and test themselves | 21:39 |
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| lcuk | but on the whole in maemo at least that doesnt happen | 21:40 |
| lcuk | tho i keep wanting the live designer to be in liqbase | 21:40 |
| wazd | lcuk: lighter is for newbies, I have installed Mer on a box of matches :D | 21:42 |
| lcuk | o_O natural | 21:42 |
| SpeedEvil | We need to port this to arm lcuk http://bellard.org/tcc/tccboot.html | 21:42 |
| liri | hey, after installing the n810 over the air software updates it overwrites some boot stuff and I'm losing the bootloader (as my OS is cloned to the internal flash and that's what I'm using) | 21:42 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, :) amazing! | 21:43 |
| lcuk | i wonder how fast tcc would be on maemo | 21:43 |
| liri | I remember having to deal with this before (in a previous update) but I don't remember what was it | 21:43 |
| lcuk | realtime c compilation for liq* would be cool | 21:43 |
| lcuk | system detects source files changed, produces new objects and links them and reinserts live | 21:43 |
| lcuk | bliss | 21:43 |
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| vasily_pupkin | oh shi | 21:44 |
| lcuk | wazd, its feasible to use the lighter as a fuelcell, with matches, you would need a mini furnace or you would burn the machine every boot | 21:44 |
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| ali1234 | "compile and run a typical Linux kernel in less than 15 seconds on a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4" i call bullshit | 21:48 |
| johnx | I call "who cares" | 21:48 |
| lcuk | ali1234, tinycc is 10x faster | 21:48 |
| ali1234 | i have a 2.8ghz pentium 4 and it takes half an hour to compile an x86 kernel | 21:48 |
| lcuk | hi johnx | 21:48 |
| johnx | hey lcuk | 21:48 |
| johnx | anyways, you can compile it pretty fast if you have the source in a ramfs and use ccache | 21:48 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: it would need to be 120x faster to get anywhere enar that | 21:49 |
| lcuk | johnx, someone posted a response to me pining for dynamic realtime recompilation of code | 21:49 |
| * qwerty12_N810 waves at johnx | 21:49 | |
| lcuk | ali1234, wouldnt know, and which version/featureset of the kernel are you meaning | 21:49 |
| ali1234 | this machine can't even link a kernel in 15 seconds | 21:49 |
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| johnx | hey qwerty12_N810 | 21:49 |
| ali1234 | and using ccache? well, if i start out with a binary kernel, then my compiler can compile it in 0 seconds | 21:50 |
| lcuk | the easiest is to simply download it and try it | 21:50 |
| ali1234 | (my compiler is cat) | 21:50 |
| pupnik | heh vmware sdk is sloow on p3 @ 850mhz | 21:50 |
| lcuk | http://bellard.org/tcc/tccboot.html | 21:50 |
| lcuk | its small | 21:50 |
| lcuk | ISO image demonstation: tccboot.iso (5.9 MB). | 21:50 |
| lcuk | pupnik, vmware is slow on supercomputers | 21:50 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: it's not linking at all | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: it compiles to RAM | 21:52 |
| lcuk | btw, fabrice bellard is the guy that did tinygl and other optimized things | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: ffmpeg too | 21:52 |
| * lcuk nods | 21:52 | |
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| lcuk | he has shown he knows what hes on about | 21:53 |
| lcuk | and if he says 15seconds for a kernel ill choose to believe him lol | 21:53 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, qemu too | 21:54 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: he's only involved - I don't think he started that | 21:54 |
| pupnik | oh dear, sdk says ALERT! /dev/disk/by-uuid/3d18734-blah does not exist. dropping to a shell! | 21:55 |
| lcuk | Copyright © 2005-2008 Fabrice Bellard. All rights reserved. | 21:55 |
| lcuk | QEMU is a trademark of Fabrice Bellard. | 21:55 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: oh | 21:55 |
| pupnik | (initramfs) init 3 | 21:55 |
| pupnik | /bin/sh: init: not found | 21:56 |
| pupnik | lol | 21:56 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: i agree, if it was anyone else i wouldn't believe it | 21:56 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: This is why you have a little rescue tools partition on ramdisk | 21:56 |
| ali1234 | but i still have to see it | 21:56 |
| lcuk | yeah | 21:56 |
| lcuk | grab the iso and let us know | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: what on earth are you trying to do | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | i guess it could just be the case that gcc is bloated and slow | 21:57 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: and does lots of optimisations. | 21:57 |
| ali1234 | SpeedEvil: yet the end result is still slower than just about any other compiler... | 21:58 |
| lcuk | ali1234, distinguished and flexible | 21:58 |
| johnx | so, anyone with an n900: have you run into a problem where the "second level" (more) apps screen doesn't scroll any more? | 21:58 |
| lcuk | ali1234, theres no other compiler that can work across the board and build as many things as gcc | 21:59 |
| lcuk | (i believe) | 21:59 |
| johnx | it happened right after I installed bounce, and I still have plenty of space on all partitions | 21:59 |
| pupnik | booting sdk Stskeeps :) somehow vmware player is munged | 21:59 |
| lcuk | its the fractint of the compiler world | 21:59 |
| pupnik | need to put it on faster machine anyway | 21:59 |
| pupnik | lol @ lcuk | 21:59 |
| lcuk | stone soup group would be proud | 21:59 |
| vasily_pupkin | yeah, gcc is bullshit | 21:59 |
| pupnik | johnx: yes many people | 21:59 |
| vasily_pupkin | but it is all that we have | 22:00 |
| qwerty12_N810 | johnx: yep, quite a few of us have come across that. quick "fix": killall hildon-desktop | 22:00 |
| pupnik | johnx: i was trying to find what caused it - is there a bugreport? | 22:00 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, non technical user fix tho is just reboot | 22:00 |
| lcuk | isnt it? | 22:00 |
| * lcuk is thinking about having to explain this to worried people if it ever happens at production | 22:01 | |
| johnx | pupnik, not that I found with a quick search | 22:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: Sure, but why reboot? :) | 22:01 |
| lcuk | killall is root isnt it | 22:01 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Nah, it works as user; hildon-desktop gets respawned | 22:01 |
| lcuk | to cure the problem, open the "hildon" map in q3, and frag the desktop combatants | 22:02 |
| pupnik | if this is not on bugs.maemo.org and i file one, can i get help if i screw up the entry? | 22:02 |
| Corsac | zombies still respawn | 22:02 |
| pupnik | or can someone with experience do it | 22:02 |
| lcuk | pupnik, if its wrong it will be changed | 22:03 |
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| lcuk | just be clear and concise in what you describe | 22:03 |
| lcuk | so people will understand | 22:03 |
| pupnik | https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=stuck | 22:03 |
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| ali1234 | about none scrolling menus, just turning it off and turning it on again works | 22:03 |
| ali1234 | and that's pretty easy to do even if not optimal | 22:04 |
| ali1234 | so that 15 second kernel compile has been running for three minutes now | 22:04 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | ali1234: You missed the little disclaimer: *15 seconds for everybody except ali1234 | 22:05 |
| pupnik | https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi is this useful? | 22:06 |
| ali1234 | finished in just over 4 moniytes | 22:06 |
| ali1234 | woah | 22:06 |
| ali1234 | minutes | 22:06 |
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| ali1234 | doesn't even contain a o or a y | 22:06 |
| * VDVsx is acquiring tactics for tmo in the "Advanced Trolling + Best Practices" session :P | 22:08 | |
| johnx | VDVsx, I'm up against the other t-mo :) | 22:08 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: so... | 22:08 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a bug where you can get the main menu stuck | 22:08 |
| lcuk | timeless, relating to your scrollbar thing | 22:08 |
| lcuk | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5496 | 22:08 |
| timeless_mbp | and have the More menu scroll over the main menu | 22:09 |
| lcuk | im searching for scroll related bugs to see if others have reported | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: well | 22:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | we've filed it for browser, camera, and profiles | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | that's a pretty good start | 22:09 |
| lcuk | yeah and theres this one | 22:10 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm all in favor of death by a thousand papercuts | 22:10 |
| lcuk | and andre knows they are there | 22:10 |
| lcuk | so when he sees them he will tie em together somehow | 22:10 |
| timeless_mbp | hildon-widgets is open source, right? | 22:11 |
| pupnik | Bug#: 5787 added | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | can someone please just fix it? | 22:11 |
| * lcuk grrrrs @ pan/select hidden ui | 22:11 | |
| lcuk | which bit timeless ? | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | the one we're talking about | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | where showing a widget doesn't result in the scrollbars painting | 22:11 |
| lcuk | ahh the entire full system scrollbars thing | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | instead you can only see them when the widget is first created/overflowed | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not necessarily asking for them to always be visible | 22:12 |
| timeless_mbp | although, if you want to fix something else | 22:12 |
| lcuk | i did this lot in liqbase and found just a transparent solid always available one works | 22:12 |
| timeless_mbp | making it be translucent (like the browser content area) instead of opaque when they're "hidden" would be great too | 22:12 |
| * lcuk nods | 22:12 | |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, i'll send you 50 EUR today via paypal if you fix it in a package i can install | 22:13 |
| lcuk | lol | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Goddamn there's a lot of highlights on here. | 22:13 |
| lcuk | cant do base gtk package replacement can you? | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | you can ask around, i really do pay | 22:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, i can do anything :) | 22:13 |
| lcuk | i knowe you can | 22:13 |
| lcuk | but a normal package cant | 22:13 |
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| lcuk | and fixing it for you is selfish | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | we'll package a replaces/diverges or something | 22:14 |
| lcuk | well if a patch can be made | 22:14 |
| lcuk | it would be better to put it into bug | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | that too | 22:14 |
| lcuk | and get it included by default surely | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | but i want people to use it | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | getting it included by default involves | 22:14 |
| lcuk | hitting the gtk guys on the head quickly | 22:14 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, mornin' (hiltes) | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: how did the FLS go then? | 22:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anything worth catching up on the scrollback for? | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Great! | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's really a fun show. | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | LOTS of interest in the N900 | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | it's not the gtk guy's fault | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | he's following orders | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Saw a half-dozen Freerunners | 22:15 |
| * lcuk nods | 22:15 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Lots of 770 owners with them in drawers. :( | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I think I converted a bunch of Android people. | 22:16 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: you bricked your n900? | 22:16 |
| johnx | yeah | 22:16 |
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| johnx | I think I accidentally converted a totally uninterested palm pre user | 22:17 |
| timeless_mbp | lol | 22:17 |
| johnx | "you just slide the thing and it opens the camera! wow!" | 22:17 |
| johnx | "where do I tap to make it take a photo?" "there's a real shutter button" "wow!" | 22:17 |
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| pupnik | yes | 22:17 |
| lcuk | johnx, i head similar things | 22:17 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: how bricked, and do you want to try to do something about it? | 22:17 |
| lcuk | "youre giving your presentation from the phone?" | 22:18 |
| lcuk | your | 22:18 |
| timeless_mbp | you're | 22:18 |
| lcuk | even better | 22:18 |
| lcuk | good job you are the translation specialist | 22:18 |
| pupnik | have a lot to do this week timeless_mbp - but i'd like to get-in some bugreporting too | 22:18 |
| lcuk | and why im a coder :D | 22:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | The whole "x and real desktop toolkits" thing really carried weight with the Android hackers. | 22:18 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, ping | 22:18 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, i offered android people something - come to n900 and bring your framework | 22:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Had one of those weird "Reality, meet Internet." moments with a friend of pupnik's. | 22:19 |
| * VDVsx -> best troll tool - cotweet.com :D | 22:19 | |
| johnx | yeah. the iphone users seem strangely happy with having to quit all applications to be logged into IM... | 22:19 |
| johnx | for some I'm sure it's because they don't care, but for some it seems like this ascetic way of life ... | 22:20 |
| * GeneralAntilles did a bad job of noting names. | 22:20 | |
| lcuk | timeless, you evil witch | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: consider blogging experiences | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | braindump=good | 22:22 |
| johnx | ccooke, allo | 22:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, will do. | 22:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Though I neglected taking any pictures. | 22:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mostly because I didn't want to advertise having an N900 there. ;) | 22:25 |
| * GeneralAntilles needs a blag, actually. | 22:25 | |
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| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: You should've invited freejazz to the event | 22:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, I'm always down for a fight. :P | 22:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hehe :p | 22:26 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, what's the problem about advertise the n900 ? :P | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | at a horde of linux users, he would be at risk of it being overdrooled | 22:27 |
| * VDVsx is doing it all the time this weekend, because almost anyone knows what is maemo :( | 22:27 | |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, didn't really want to see "Nokia demos N900 prototype at Florida Linux Show!" on Engadget. | 22:27 |
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| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, ah ok ;) | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | I actually had it on the table in front of me for most of the show. | 22:28 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, I'm with a "horde of linux" dev's :) | 22:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | It was interesting to see some people eye it. | 22:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | A couple of people would sort of drift off during the conversation as their eyes locked on. | 22:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I suspect that may be vaguely similar to what many women experience. *g* | 22:29 |
| VDVsx | lolol | 22:29 |
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| * qwerty12_N810 is still not sure why Nokia decided to make the N900's keyboard lights go horny when in RD-Mode :\ | 22:31 | |
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| RST38h | qwerty: easy | 22:34 |
| RST38h | qwerty: they needed some indicators of device activity when it is locked | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, ping? | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | gan: lol | 22:34 |
| RST38h | qwerty: the kbd LEDs are normally off when the device is locked | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: the lights let you see if power saving is working properly | 22:34 |
| RST38h | qwerty: So, it is logical to reuse these LEDs for the sleep status | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | which is actually very important | 22:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Good point. I'm just gonna have to deal with it all night, now :\ | 22:35 |
| timeless_mbp | you could disable rd-mode | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | why is it on? | 22:36 |
| * timeless_mbp never uses it | 22:36 | |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Playing with the operator name plugin and I managed to make hildon-desktop segfault a few times, so I need to keep "no-lifeguard-reset" on | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, hey, when you start screwing with shit expect things to become less than convenient. :D | 22:37 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, pong | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, decide on a Mac yet? :P | 22:37 |
| crashanddie | will see after the US | 22:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: But I could use my N800 and N810 quite normally in RD-Mode :p | 22:38 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, I'll probably go for the iMac 27" i7 | 22:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | No weird lights there... | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, that's what I'd recommend. | 22:38 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, and get a 11 or 12" hackintosh | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just 'cause the 4-core Mac Pros have rather . . . large margins right now. | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, Mini 10v, probably. | 22:38 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, yeah, will see when I need one | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc the lights are controllable by writing over some bit in /proc | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well supported | 22:39 |
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| crashanddie | well, no support, it just works :P | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Netbook Installer: http://code.google.com/p/netbook-installer/ | 22:39 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, I can't get the apple financing though here in the UK | 22:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, isn't it cheaper to go with your bank and/or credit card company? | 22:40 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, so I'll just get a new CC and pay it off in 3 months no interest or something | 22:40 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: You're awesome. Looked through /sbin/preinit and saw the correct line. Thanks! | 22:40 |
| johnx | the 10v works amazingly with ubuntu as well | 22:41 |
| crashanddie | johnx, this is an apple discussion, please don't pollute it with fake unices | 22:41 |
| crashanddie | (jk) | 22:41 |
| johnx | :P | 22:41 |
| johnx | just saying it's a good hardware choice even if you realize you're using the wrong OS on it :> | 22:42 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, I could probably pay it off in one month looking at the state of my bank account, but that would mean no new place to live, and actually, weird is it may sound here, a new place to live is actual a higher priority than a new computer :P | 22:42 |
| crashanddie | johnx, there is no "wrong OS2 | 22:42 |
| crashanddie | interesting typo | 22:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, hehe. | 22:42 |
| crashanddie | "wrong OS" | 22:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, psh, new computer is always more important. :P | 22:43 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, not when you have my landlord it ain;t | 22:43 |
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| crashanddie | ok, imout | 22:43 |
| johnx | crashanddie, hurd | 22:43 |
| crashanddie | o/ lardman | 22:43 |
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| johnx | 'later crashanddie | 22:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 22:43 |
| crashanddie | johnx, hurd what? | 22:44 |
| crashanddie | didn't hear anything | 22:44 |
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| anidel | re | 22:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | I got ambushed by a man with a camera and a microphone at the show. | 22:44 |
| johnx | crashanddie, did he smack you with a tripod? | 22:44 |
| johnx | s/crashanddie/GeneralAntilles/ | 22:44 |
| infobot | johnx meant: GeneralAntilles, did he smack you with a tripod? | 22:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then while I was giving the little Mer/maemo.org spiel there was some weird looking Asian dude standing there staring intently at me. | 22:44 |
| johnx | <- moar coffee | 22:45 |
| crashanddie | anyway, off for biking, ++ | 22:45 |
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| johnx | have fun | 22:45 |
| crashanddie | btw, did the time change in the US? | 22:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 22:45 |
| johnx | not yet I think | 22:45 |
| crashanddie | oh ffs | 22:45 |
| crashanddie | worst week to fly to the US: when hours change in Europe, but not in the US | 22:46 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, nop, will change around Halloween afaik (end of the month) | 22:46 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx, thanks | 22:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | "This site has not bee tested for compatibility with the browser you are using ("omniweb"). It generally should still work, but you may encounter problems. For full compatibility, please consider installing Firefox" | 22:46 |
| crashanddie | anyway, bb | 22:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | This on the video guy's site | 22:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | He gave me a 5 minute lecture on why I should be using ogg theora | 22:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | After I asked him if he was going to put it on YouTube. | 22:47 |
| pupnik | can you summarize? | 22:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://roblimo.magnify.net/ | 22:47 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, wait, the slashdot roblimo? | 22:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Rob Miller? | 22:48 |
| johnx | durrr, dunno? | 22:48 |
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| johnx | yes | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | didnt you run into slashdot guys too, johnx? | 22:48 |
| johnx | yeah, and soon after that /. started working better on webkit browsers :> | 22:49 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 22:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | He came back around later sans-camera and seemed pretty interested in Mer. | 22:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Client restart, still no scrollback limited implemented. . . . | 22:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Oh, and: | 22:51 |
| * GeneralAntilles shoots lbt out of a cannon. | 22:51 | |
| * lcuk quickly sets up a net to catch lbt | 22:51 | |
| * w00t claps | 22:51 | |
| lcuk | mer would not build properly if it wasnt for his diligence | 22:51 |
| * lbt opens his N900 keyboard and discover something remarkable | 22:52 | |
| timeless_mbp | lights out? | 22:52 |
| lcuk | bacon grill working and nicely warming keyboard? | 22:52 |
| lbt | very aerodynamic these things | 22:52 |
| * lbt soars | 22:52 | |
| w00t | haha. | 22:52 |
| lcuk | they tile well too | 22:52 |
| fiferboy | x-fade: ping? | 22:52 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 22:52 |
| lcuk | especially with the keyboard out | 22:52 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: ?? more CamelCase ?? | 22:53 |
| * lbt notes the irony in GeneralAntilles' nick | 22:53 | |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, just revenge for scrollback. :P | 22:53 |
| * lbt has about 10 lines of memory | 22:54 | |
| lbt | but believes he deserves it ;) | 22:54 |
| lcuk | whos used etherpad | 22:56 |
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| lardman | belated hi crashanddie | 22:59 |
| lardman | rubbish connection | 23:00 |
| anidel | my n900 was stuck in portrait mode.. wanna see screenshots of the desktop and task switcher in portrait mode? :) | 23:00 |
| qwerty12_N810 | anidel: Next on Engadget: "Aha! The N900 does support portrait mode!"... | 23:01 |
| lcuk | yeah anidel | 23:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Haha, right, Stskeeps we got the N800 stuck in portrait mode twice. | 23:05 |
| Stskeeps | hmm? | 23:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | It was rotated with adv backlight and we couldn't get it back out because the applet was off screen. | 23:06 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 23:06 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 23:06 |
| Stskeeps | in 0.16? | 23:06 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 23:07 | |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: youch | 23:07 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: you need a desktop applet at the top left corner :) | 23:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, 0.16 | 23:08 |
| johnx | anyone ever had an sd card actually just come apart? | 23:12 |
| pupnik__ | hmm 32GB microsd not in stores here | 23:13 |
| SpeedEvil | nl | 23:13 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: only with a good excuse. | 23:13 |
| SpeedEvil | (I was hitting it with a chisel at the time) | 23:13 |
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| johnx | it was actually in one of those stupid little plastic cases, in my backpack | 23:14 |
| johnx | but I guess it got pressure applied on the wrong axis | 23:14 |
| epa_ | anyone seen description on what input3 gives out? | 23:14 |
| lcuk | cookies | 23:14 |
| lcuk | what is the context | 23:14 |
| epa_ | it seems to give 16 bytes | 23:15 |
| lcuk | 16 bytes from where | 23:15 |
| epa_ | /dev/input/event3 | 23:15 |
| johnx | lcuk, another dimension | 23:15 |
| epa_ | Nokia-N900-41-10:/dev/input# /root/hexdump < event3 | 23:15 |
| lcuk | according to google its acceleromet or wacom | 23:17 |
| lcuk | or synaptics thingy | 23:17 |
| epa_ | it is touchscreen | 23:17 |
| epa_ | not accel | 23:17 |
| epa_ | just trying to figure out what the bytes mean | 23:17 |
| johnx | lcuk, input3 is arbitrary | 23:17 |
| johnx | it'll be different on different systems | 23:18 |
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| lcuk | its touchscreen data | 23:18 |
| lcuk | cat it | 23:18 |
| lcuk | then it will sit idle | 23:18 |
| epa_ | johnx: on N900 it seems to be touchscreen (at least at the moment) | 23:18 |
| lcuk | touch the screen and ti will flow | 23:18 |
| epa_ | yes | 23:18 |
| epa_ | I'm hexdumping it and would like to know what the bytes are | 23:18 |
| lcuk | interesting all the same :) | 23:19 |
| lcuk | since thats global | 23:19 |
| * lcuk makes sketches out of it | 23:19 | |
| lcuk | epa_, it really cant be that tricky to decode | 23:20 |
| epa_ | probably aint | 23:21 |
| epa_ | was just thinnking f someone did it already | 23:21 |
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| epa_ | first 2 bytes seem to be some sort of timestamp | 23:22 |
| lcuk | i think /dev/input/ts is mapped to same | 23:22 |
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| epa_ | like 0035fc0 b427 4ae4 32ea 0004 0003 0018 00a8 0000 | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | epa, evdev is standardized afaik | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | there is a struct def for it | 23:26 |
| epa_ | Stskeeps: excellent. I'll have a look at evdev sources | 23:26 |
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| lcuk | 11 upgraded, 9 newly installed, 302 to remove and 111 not upgraded. | 23:29 |
| lcuk | Need to get 4836kB of archives. | 23:29 |
| lcuk | After this operation, 129MB disk space will be freed. | 23:29 |
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| lcuk | i think i should decline that option | 23:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Declining is for the weak | 23:30 |
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| pupnik__ | does anybody have a graph of phone units sold against their price? | 23:33 |
| johnx | lcuk, tablet or desktop? | 23:33 |
| pupnik__ | i am curious what pricepoint maemo needs to hit to become mainstream | 23:33 |
| lcuk | johnx, tablet | 23:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | pupnik: ebay! | 23:34 |
| johnx | pupnik, here's the pricepoint: subsidized | 23:34 |
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| pupnik | "According to a latest survey conducted by the United Nations, sixty percent of people in the world are now using mobile phones, at the subscription rate of 4.1 billion per year." | 23:38 |
| johnx | and imagine all of them being a little linux computer :D | 23:39 |
| pupnik | i'm imagining 10% | 23:39 |
| pupnik | govt regulations have basically split the US from rest of world mobile-wise | 23:40 |
| johnx | pupnik, nah. the US is coming around | 23:41 |
| johnx | verizon and sprint will be on GSM by the time 4G is rolling out | 23:41 |
| johnx | the frequencies will still be stupid, but that's a lot less of an issue than CDMA vs GSM | 23:42 |
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| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, "skynet" on your mobile :P | 23:44 |
| lcuk | which is your normal provider | 23:44 |
| qwerty12_N810 | T-Mobile | 23:44 |
| lcuk | i can see the similarities | 23:44 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I mean T-Mobile UK, not T-Mobile US... | 23:45 |
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| pupnik | wow 1.086 euros per GBP. cheap shopping in uk atm. | 23:46 |
| code177 | man | 23:46 |
| code177 | I tell you what | 23:47 |
| code177 | (also, hi everyone) | 23:47 |
| lcuk | hi code166 | 23:47 |
| code177 | hoho | 23:47 |
| code177 | actually nevermind | 23:47 |
| code177 | i had a fever all weekend | 23:47 |
| code177 | it's sucked | 23:47 |
| code177 | BUT get this | 23:47 |
| code177 | (sorry to interject in your conversation) | 23:47 |
| code177 | (also i'm british, bet you guys didnt know that) | 23:48 |
| code177 | i had a dream whilst i was feverish and in the dream i figured out how to use threads in python | 23:48 |
| code177 | and then I tried it when I woke up, and it worked! | 23:48 |
| lcuk | tracy says i code in my sleep too | 23:48 |
| qwerty12_N810 | code177: Haha, BBC had an article on experiences like that | 23:49 |
| code177 | it's weird | 23:49 |
| code177 | I wonder how long my brain had been trying to figure that one out | 23:49 |
| code177 | like 3 or 4 days | 23:49 |
| lcuk | sleep time is when we have a chance to digest and organise the input of the day | 23:49 |
| lcuk | and when its boiled down sometimes it makes sense | 23:49 |
| lcuk | hehe code177 some things take much longer than that to come out | 23:49 |
| lcuk | it all depends how long your stack it | 23:50 |
| code177 | i guess so yeah | 23:50 |
| code177 | ok, also I have a question for you guys | 23:50 |
| lcuk | sorry, we closed 5 minutes ago | 23:50 |
| code177 | not a coding question, incidentally, a UI concept question | 23:50 |
| lcuk | whilst you were gasbagging | 23:50 |
| code177 | one where you get to be imaginative and stuff | 23:50 |
| code177 | ready? | 23:50 |
| code177 | OK! | 23:50 |
| qwerty12_N810 | *crickets* | 23:51 |
| lcuk | hes typing a long thing | 23:51 |
| code177 | I've been racking my brains over the best way to display the wallpaper window (when you select a wallpaper thumb, obvs it goes to the wallpaper window), and it's become a bit more complex than I would have thought | 23:51 |
| code177 | at the moment i've got it so it's got the wallpaper title as the window title, which is great, and then a toolbar which has icons for about, rate, and save | 23:52 |
| code177 | and then I was thinking mayb putting the wallpaper in the middle. | 23:52 |
| code177 | however | 23:52 |
| code177 | what about wallpapers with more than 1 desktop? | 23:52 |
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| code177 | i was thinking i could do thumbs again, and then have them go fullscreen when you tap them | 23:53 |
| code177 | but then what if you have only one or two desktops | 23:53 |
| code177 | then you have all this blank empty space | 23:53 |
| code177 | you could scale them to fit, but then i'd need to output more wallpaper images because you cant just scale them down, loading up 4 fullsize wallpapers to scale into thumbnails is stupid | 23:53 |
| lcuk | code177, you havent seen the tiling algorythm in liqbase :) | 23:53 |
| lcuk | i dont know how to access it, but every image stored on the machine is eaten by tracker | 23:54 |
| code177 | lcuk: show me how to use liqbase in python and we'll talk :P | 23:54 |
| lcuk | and has a thumbnail generated | 23:54 |
| lcuk | maybe multiple actually | 23:54 |
| code177 | generating the thumbnails isn't the hard bit, it's dealing with the load times | 23:54 |
| lcuk | hence use existing thumbnails | 23:54 |
| code177 | at the moment i have to run a "Getting Thumbnails" progress bar to cache the thumbnails for a category | 23:55 |
| code177 | because gtk doesnt support inline loading | 23:55 |
| lcuk | i know how slow this whole process is | 23:55 |
| code177 | so you have to get them all first T_T | 23:55 |
| code177 | it works well though | 23:55 |
| lcuk | even a threaded process is sluggish | 23:55 |
| code177 | well fortunately you only have to do it once per new thumbnail | 23:56 |
| code177 | cause im caching them | 23:56 |
| code177 | but still | 23:56 |
| code177 | means the first time you hit landscapes and skies it takes like | 23:56 |
| code177 | *counts | 23:56 |
| lcuk | if you are using gtk | 23:57 |
| lcuk | seriously look at tracker | 23:57 |
| lcuk | it has this functionality built in and indexes itself | 23:57 |
| code177 | like 15 seconds | 23:57 |
| lcuk | and builds thumbs | 23:57 |
| lcuk | if it has the api it will be benficial | 23:57 |
| code177 | url? | 23:57 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/hildon-thumbnail/commit/fba0e5070eaf0a3040d8ae85cd003025c4486c27 | 23:58 |
| lcuk | follow that | 23:58 |
| lcuk | it might be that tracker pushes to thumbaniler which sounds reasonable actually | 23:58 |
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| lcuk | thats the explanation i read about it i think | 23:59 |
| lcuk | http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2009/04/album-art-in-fremantle.html | 23:59 |
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