| mgedmin | gah, having fun with my n900 dying from high loadavg and swapin/swapout storms | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| mgedmin | happens like clockwork whenever uptime reaches 1 day and 10 hours | 00:00 |
| mgedmin | 40 minutes of agony and a reboot | 00:01 |
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| adeus | maybe they've never had their devices up for that long :) | 00:01 |
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| mgedmin | I'm sure they have | 00:01 |
| frals | am not surprised after reading with your experiments with various kernel drivers (iirc :p) | 00:01 |
| mgedmin | mine didn't used to do that | 00:01 |
| mgedmin | currently I suspect my use of the n900 as an ad-hoc wifi proxy | 00:01 |
| frals | s/with/about/ | 00:02 |
| infobot | frals meant: am not surprised after reading about your experiments with various kernel drivers (iirc :p) | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | cron'd ps, vmstat, ... can help | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | also oomkiller | 00:02 |
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| mgedmin | 32wd_to is the bootreason meaning... what? | 00:03 |
| mgedmin | hw watchdog | 00:03 |
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| ShadowJK | yes | 00:07 |
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| achipa | errm... what's the story with the preferred way of reporting bugs ? | 00:26 |
| achipa | "http://bugs.maemo.org is the preferred option. Otherwise it needs to be identified in the http://maemo.org/packages/ page. " | 00:27 |
| achipa | I don't really see how to register anything in either... is it time to go to sleep/get another coffee ? | 00:27 |
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| ShadowJK | bugs in what | 00:31 |
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| achipa | ShadowJK: in a new package | 00:42 |
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| achipa | the quote is from the Extras-testing QA guide | 00:43 |
| achipa | except I don't see how to register a new project on bugs.maemo.org, nor how to set a bug tracker url in the packages page... | 00:44 |
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| GAN900 | achipa, talk to me or andre | 00:45 |
| GAN900 | achipa, adding a product to bugzilla involves a lot of manual effort. | 00:45 |
| GAN900 | So we're not actively encouraging it. | 00:45 |
| achipa | okay, so "http://bugs.maemo.org is the preferred option" isn't exactly true :) | 00:46 |
| wazd | Damn, I bought pretty nice display by chance :) | 00:48 |
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| achipa | GAN900: in short, then, what is the recommended way of resolving this extras-testing blocker ? | 00:48 |
| GAN900 | achipa, lots of stuff already has products. :) | 00:50 |
| GAN900 | So it's preferred to just leaving a comment if a product exists. | 00:50 |
| GAN900 | This guide is for testers. :) | 00:50 |
| GAN900 | We should be upgrading to 3.4 soon. | 00:51 |
| achipa | GAN900: err, the point is that bug reporting is a QA requirement nowadays for getting into extras | 00:52 |
| achipa | GAN900: that's A-OK, except, where do I enter the darn thing ? :) I'd use garage since it's not a product that will gather any serious bug reports, but it's the paperwork that's killing me here | 00:53 |
| achipa | use garage = use the garage's tracker | 00:53 |
| GAN900 | Goddamn Ovi Maps is useless. | 00:53 |
| GAN900 | achipa, what's the packages? | 00:53 |
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| achipa | GAN900: mirror | 00:54 |
| achipa | QGil raised the bug tracker issue as a blocker... | 00:54 |
| GAN900 | OK | 00:54 |
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| achipa | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/mirror/1.0-3/ | 00:55 |
| achipa | here's the grim story :) | 00:55 |
| GAN900 | Um, there's a guide on what info you need to open the product on the wiki | 00:55 |
| GAN900 | Ask somebody not on GPRS to link you if you can't find it. | 00:56 |
| achipa | :) ok | 00:56 |
| achipa | thx anyway | 00:56 |
| achipa | (it's not in the Bugs: category) | 00:56 |
| GAN900 | Then either pm or email that info to me (GeneralAntilles). | 00:56 |
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| GAN900 | and I'll see if I can get it opened for you tonight or tomorrow. | 00:56 |
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| GAN900 | Driving to Orlando for FLS now. | 00:57 |
| GAN900 | Opening a bugzilla product may be the title. | 00:57 |
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| GAN900 | timeless/andre__: ping? | 00:57 |
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| achipa | hey, I don't want to push anybody, if it's not super-easy, then it's more of a procedural issue | 00:58 |
| achipa | and it will soon become a nightmare as things start to migrate en masse from -devel to -testing | 00:58 |
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| GAN900 | Ugh, Ovi Maps crashed | 00:59 |
| achipa | welcome to the club :) | 01:00 |
| GAN900 | After I found the address by comparing Google Maps to Ovi | 01:00 |
| achipa | GAN900: I can write a msg to the -devel list about the issue if you think... 'cause I don't really see the Right Solution (TM) | 01:03 |
| achipa | GAN900: this is a _literally_ one liner script/application, so any manual interventions are likely an overkill for it | 01:04 |
| GAN900 | achipa, -community | 01:04 |
| achipa | GAN900: okay | 01:04 |
| GAN900 | to qgil's thread about QA | 01:04 |
| achipa | torpedos, los ! | 01:04 |
| GAN900 | and I agree, bug products for stuff like that is big overkill | 01:05 |
| GAN900 | The packages comment interface is really enough | 01:05 |
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| woilok | Hi | 01:19 |
| woilok | I just got an 810. What size memory card should I get? Do you guys use a lot of memory with your Nokias? | 01:19 |
| achipa | woilok: the bigger the better :) depends on your usage pattern, really | 01:20 |
| woilok | I might listen to music and watch a movie. | 01:20 |
| woilok | But the battery life on it isn't the greatest (might have to buy a new battery) | 01:20 |
| achipa | woilok: BTW you're probably better off buying a microSD with an adapter than looking for a miniSD | 01:21 |
| kkito | Someone is able to run opengl-es2 apps under x86 fremantle scratchbox? | 01:21 |
| woilok | Why is that achipa? | 01:21 |
| woilok | Cheaper? | 01:21 |
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| achipa | woilok: often it's hard (and expensive) to find large capacity miniSD cards | 01:22 |
| GAN900 | Ovi Maps is DANGEROUSLY non-functional. | 01:22 |
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| woilok | achipa - Yeah | 01:23 |
| achipa | GAN900: i my experience that word is closer to COMPLETELY | 01:23 |
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| achipa | s/i/in/ | 01:23 |
| infobot | achipa meant: GAN900: in my experience that word is closer to COMPLETELY | 01:23 |
| ShadowJK | GAN900, have they copied that google maps feature, where you can search for X and get 0 results, despite X being a name clearly visible on screen, on the very map you're viewing? | 01:23 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, can't even enter an address. | 01:23 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 01:23 |
| woilok | Thanks achipa | 01:24 |
| achipa | woilok: you're welcome | 01:24 |
| Ceron^ | GAN900: thats why i will wait for alternative gps software | 01:24 |
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| GAN900 | The GPS tracking bounces all over the place. | 01:24 |
| GAN900 | and it's slooow | 01:24 |
| ShadowJK | GAN900, my sirstar bt gps drifted off by 2km today, at 100km/h :) | 01:25 |
| GAN900 | My 5800 runs Ovi Maps faster with less than half the horsepower. | 01:25 |
| ShadowJK | (I was stationary) | 01:25 |
| ShadowJK | I think "Nokia Maps" (later renamed Ovi Maps) is entirely different thing from "Ovi Maps" on N900... | 01:25 |
| ShadowJK | s/Maps)/Maps?)/ | 01:25 |
| infobot | ShadowJK meant: I think "Nokia Maps" (later renamed Ovi Maps?) is entirely different thing from "Ovi Maps" on N900... | 01:25 |
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| ariya_home | I guess they are the same, only different version | 01:27 |
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| ShadowJK | Nokia Maps on S60 is actually a usable vector map program :-) | 01:30 |
| Macer | ugh i hate android | 01:30 |
| Macer | maemo doesnt just randomly close apps on its own does it? | 01:31 |
| Macer | haha | 01:31 |
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| pupnik | gan 900 got the second screen of icons refusing to pan bug? | 01:35 |
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| mikkov__ | pupnik: there'a bug about it. killall hildon-desktop is a cure | 01:39 |
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| crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, I'm tempted to get a mac | 01:43 |
| crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, dunno which one though | 01:43 |
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| GAN900 | crashandie_, Mac Pro or i7 iMac | 01:45 |
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| crashanddie__ | GAN900, thing is, my laptop is falling apart, but if I get a laptop, I'm going to be bummed about overheating, screen size and non-upgradable | 01:46 |
| huh | i was wondering why i can't connect to my wireless home network with my Nokia N810? | 01:47 |
| crashanddie__ | GAN900, if I get a nice iMac, I'll love the screen size, but I'm going to be bummed when I have to get out my big fat 5 year old laptop | 01:47 |
| crashanddie__ | GAN900, that being said, I could just buy a Dell Mini 9 from out there somewhere and hackintosh it :P | 01:47 |
| GAN900 | Hehe | 01:47 |
| GAN900 | Works OK | 01:48 |
| GAN900 | Keyboard sucks | 01:48 |
| GAN900 | Although you get used to it. | 01:48 |
| crashanddie__ | does it work on mini 10? | 01:48 |
| GAN900 | Yes | 01:49 |
| * dmj7262 just saw the Winders 7 launch party video... | 01:49 | |
| crashanddie__ | well, I'll get a mini 10 when I come back from the US | 01:49 |
| crashanddie__ | or buy it in the US if cheaper | 01:49 |
| huh | i was wondering why i can't connect to my wireless home network with my Nokia N810? | 01:49 |
| crashanddie__ | huh, can be for a number of reasons | 01:50 |
| crashanddie__ | huh, what encryption is it? | 01:50 |
| dmj7262 | and doesn't think that M$'s core audience is going to hold the equivalent of a LUG meeting | 01:50 |
| huh | like WEP? | 01:50 |
| hardaker | you know, the one thing that worries me about the N900 videos is those silly spinning date thingies for setting times and dates. Every iphone user i know hates those. | 01:51 |
| crashanddie__ | hardaker, they are shit, agreed | 01:51 |
| hardaker | I hope they accept keyboard typing too | 01:51 |
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| crashanddie__ | how? | 01:53 |
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| crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, any other dells that work flawlessly? | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | does anybody know what's main cause of recent delay of N900 shipping? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5315 ?? | 01:56 |
| mikkov__ | it's not ready? | 01:57 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, Well they handed out 300 phones at the maemo summit. Unfortunately they all exploded, which also resulted in all the people who were going to write apps for n900 dying. But fear not, Nokia has a cunning plan. They will impregnate 2700 females to spawn 300 new developers in a month. This should fix the shortfall. | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 01:57 |
| * w00t is stud-extrodinaire | 01:58 | |
| w00t | :-) | 01:58 |
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| pupnik | ty mikkov | 02:00 |
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| crashanddie__ | lol.. the dell mini 10v product code starts with "N00B" | 02:08 |
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| gomiam | hello. Quick question. What was the way to set the offline/normal mode through the command line? | 02:13 |
| gomiam | A year or so ago I lost my ability to choose "offlline mode"/"normal mode" because some file had the wrong valule. Unfortunately, I'm unable to find the solution I was given then. Can anybody help me? | 02:14 |
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| hardaker | ha: http://picasaweb.google.com/cschlaeger/JapanLinuxSymposium#5395358413061926434 | 02:30 |
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| gomiam | never mind, I managed to find it's /var/lib/mce/mode... now t's time to read how to change it so it works again :) | 02:36 |
| gomiam | (and set up a shortcut to do it automatically) | 02:36 |
| gomiam | good night... | 02:37 |
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| * wiretapped just read http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs | 02:51 | |
| wiretapped | W T F | 02:51 |
| wiretapped | its OS2005 all over again | 02:51 |
| wiretapped | can anybody explain why it is like that? | 02:52 |
| luke-jr | lol | 02:52 |
| wiretapped | "Of course, not everything needs to be moved to /opt: configuration files are best left in /etc, for example" | 02:52 |
| wiretapped | that seems exactly backwards | 02:52 |
| wiretapped | it would make lots of sense to put configs in MyDocs, if MyDocs doesn't get erased when you flash | 02:53 |
| wiretapped | but noooo | 02:53 |
| wiretapped | wtf nokia | 02:53 |
| wiretapped | wtf | 02:53 |
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| achipa | wiretapped: the point od flashing is exactly to restore to factory config | 02:56 |
| wiretapped | right. | 02:56 |
| wiretapped | but what is the point of shipping a unix system with 100MB free on / ? | 02:57 |
| achipa | wiretapped: hardware limitations | 02:57 |
| wiretapped | oh that explains everything | 02:57 |
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| wiretapped | i assume the tiny flash has some properities the bigger flash lacks? | 02:58 |
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| wiretapped | but what are they? | 02:59 |
| wiretapped | and actually that explains nothing | 02:59 |
| wiretapped | only laziness can explain this afaict | 02:59 |
| wiretapped | they could have put lots of the system on a smaller faster flash chip and still let the big one be / | 03:00 |
| wiretapped | achipa: care to elaborate? | 03:00 |
| achipa | wiretapped: the small flash is faster | 03:01 |
| achipa | wiretapped: don't get me wrong, it's a hack, but when they realized /opt is not the best solution, it was already too late | 03:02 |
| Mousey | i agree 100MB seems like a lot for / | 03:02 |
| wiretapped | lol | 03:02 |
| Mousey | oh | 03:03 |
| Mousey | you meant the opposite | 03:03 |
| * Mousey nm's | 03:03 | |
| achipa | slap python and qt on it and you can't drop a pin any more... | 03:03 |
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| luke-jr | wiretapped: the bigger flash is SD crap | 03:04 |
| achipa | wiretapped: they could have ubi/aufs-t the whole thing so it's transparent but that would mean a systemwide performance penalty | 03:05 |
| achipa | so they made the choice it's better for us 3rd party folks to adapt our packages :) | 03:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | It'd be so nice if SD cards also supported 'raw' mode. | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | that'd remove many of the issues. | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | In that you can tell the card that you don't want any wear levelling at all, and you will handle it. | 03:07 |
| wiretapped | SpeedEvil: yeah, an MTD interface to SDs would be nice | 03:08 |
| wiretapped | but wouldn't be SD anymore :) | 03:08 |
| achipa | wrong wrong wrong | 03:08 |
| wiretapped | oh? | 03:08 |
| SpeedEvil | (neglecting hte fact that some of the linux side can't properly exploit this - for example there is no support for swap to flash in a linear circular buffer mode. | 03:08 |
| achipa | it's not a SD | 03:08 |
| achipa | it's an eMMC | 03:08 |
| wiretapped | ah | 03:08 |
| achipa | it does all the wear leveling stuff on it's own, on the hardware level | 03:09 |
| wiretapped | well an MTD interface wouldn't be MMC anymore either | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | wiretapped: SD is largely an interface - think of it like ISA. Or MMC - same thing - different interface | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | You talk to it with command packets - actually on reflection it's more http | 03:09 |
| ShadowJK | I heard the command overhead is obscene | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | so you can add arbitrary packet types with no issue to the existing ones - other than a discovery mechanism. | 03:10 |
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| wiretapped | so i get that the 256MB flash is nice and fast | 03:11 |
| wiretapped | but if apps can't be on it anyway, why have / on it? They could keep lots of the system on it for speed without having it be / | 03:11 |
| achipa | there was an alternative solution, put / on the big flash and use the small one for swap | 03:12 |
| achipa | but that has it's drawbacks as well | 03:12 |
| ShadowJK | it's arguably less suited for swap than the emmc | 03:13 |
| achipa | correct, but generally you don't want your swap and / be on the same flash device | 03:14 |
| achipa | that just kills performance | 03:14 |
| ShadowJK | That is very true. | 03:14 |
| ShadowJK | On N810 maemo-mapper writes maps to mmc1, and claws writes stuff to mmc2. I notice difference in performance between having swap on mmc1 or mmc2 | 03:15 |
| ShadowJK | On my* | 03:15 |
| achipa | I even had watchdog timeouts leading to resets when I had the swap on my / device on my N810 :) | 03:15 |
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| achipa | so it's BAD :) | 03:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | Swap over 3G. You know it makes sense. | 03:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I have actually swapped over wifi to a large ramdisk. Worked well. | 03:16 |
| wiretapped | SpeedEvil: that is evil | 03:18 |
| ShadowJK | I got plenty of watchdog timeouts even with swap on mmc.. | 03:18 |
| wiretapped | I thought swap on nbd over 100Mbit was evil, but wifi? damn | 03:18 |
| SpeedEvil | wiretapped: Well - consider how large a block you have to move to equal it on a normal hard drive | 03:18 |
| wiretapped | my experiments with swap on nbd had not good results | 03:19 |
| SpeedEvil | wiretapped: and unless the average swapin or swapout block is >80K (IIRC) - it's faster | 03:19 |
| SpeedEvil | On an unrelated matter - I've seen complaints of the GPS. Is the GPS a hardware GPS that outputs NMEA - or a software one? Does it pop up on /dev/ttySAC0 or whatever the hardware UART is called. | 03:21 |
| ShadowJK | iirc iostat reports average transfer size as something far less than 80k in practice.. | 03:21 |
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| xnt14 | musicbot: KOTOKO: Lament | 04:17 |
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| dmj7262 | on the n900 is flash a cpu pig? | 04:27 |
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| ShadowJK | dude. | 04:28 |
| ShadowJK | flash is a cpu pig on ANYTHING :) | 04:28 |
| dmj7262 | especially my netbook | 04:29 |
| dmj7262 | I'd be a bit worried about flash draining my battery because youtube got left open or something | 04:30 |
| xnt14 | html5 video > flash | 04:30 |
| dmj7262 | yep...lets hope it catches on | 04:31 |
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| xnt14 | but we need to wait until google switches youtube to html5 video ;) | 04:31 |
| dmj7262 | ...but is the n90 browser html5 capable? | 04:31 |
| dmj7262 | n900* | 04:31 |
| xnt14 | I think so | 04:31 |
| dmj7262 | cause it needs to b based on ff 3.5 | 04:32 |
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| xnt14 | true... | 04:33 |
| dmj7262 | so I suppose one could use fennec | 04:33 |
| ShadowJK | In Maemo there's a method for the OS to request apps to use less CPU. It does that when you haven't used the device for long, like if you put on the keylock and stick it in your pocket. In Diablo, that made the browser atleast stop executing javascript. I rarely have flash enabled so I dunno if flash also stops :) | 04:35 |
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| dmj7262 | is there a quick setting to toggle flash? | 04:42 |
| ShadowJK | Don't know. In Maemo4 there is. | 04:42 |
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| crashanddie__ | http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/4038916612/ | 05:39 |
| crashanddie__ | Next step, porting it to Maemo :) | 05:39 |
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| w00t | seems wiki.maemo.org has taken a coffee break? | 06:17 |
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| wazd | mornin' all :) | 06:40 |
| w00t | lo wazd | 06:45 |
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| Mace_ | damn. the vbox update is like 800M | 07:29 |
| Mace_ | wtf | 07:29 |
| Mace_ | and pkg.sun.com goes like 10k/s haha | 07:30 |
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| sin18 | does anyone know the correct url format for google street (maemo mapper) since it seems to have changed again ? | 08:11 |
| Macer | hm | 08:17 |
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| L0cutus | re | 09:16 |
| ifreq | hey loc | 09:17 |
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| vasily_zajcev | good time of day :] | 10:40 |
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| dmj7261 | Who will be at the n900 meetup in Chicago? | 10:47 |
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| vasily_pupkin | anybody use gep summary here? | 10:58 |
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| wazd | reheya all | 11:02 |
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| * RST38h moos at wazd | 11:43 | |
| Ceron^ | hmmph i heard that there was 2 n900 phones at altparty | 11:44 |
| Ceron^ | in finland | 11:44 |
| Ceron^ | and they both crashed plenty | 11:44 |
| Ceron^ | were not stable at all :( | 11:44 |
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| * RST38h has no idea how come that his n900 does not crash at all | 11:46 | |
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| RST38h | Not that it does not have some problems, but no more than an average S60 phone | 11:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | Virus! Be sure to use virus protection with your n900. However make sure it's the right sort. Ribbed makes the screen bumpy, and spermicidal can dissolve the marks. | 11:46 |
| vladovg | hi | 11:47 |
| RST38h | hello | 11:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: XD | 11:47 |
| vladovg | good morning everi one | 11:47 |
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| * RST38h finally found the bug | 11:48 | |
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| qwerty12 | samppa: Update s2c to work with the fact that you must now enable the accelerometer manually! :) | 11:48 |
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| achipa | Ceron^: Since I disabled automatic phone-mode rotation, I had maybe one (reboot requiring) crash in several days, and I'm a developers, so all sorts of nasties happen on it all the time :) | 11:56 |
| Ceron^ | lol it was crashing all the time :\ @ altparty and then it was very slow | 11:59 |
| qwerty12 | Did you, by any chance, go to Settings -> About product and note the firmware version in use? :) | 12:01 |
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| * RST38h mumbles and throws dried bat wing powder all over simulated VAX console | 12:02 | |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Actually, mgedmin has encountered a problem that sounded very similar to this one | 12:31 |
| RST38h | qwerty: His device started swapping pages i and out, seemingly in a loop | 12:31 |
| RST38h | qwerty: He says it happens approximately once a day now. | 12:32 |
| RST38h | But I have not seen or heard this happen to anyone else. Asked him to kill tracker daemon next time it happens, as this is the only possible cause I can think about | 12:32 |
| wazd | RST38h: moo :) | 12:33 |
| qwerty12 | For me, firmware versions before 41-10 were a shitpile (5-6 reboots per day) but with 41-10, the device has been incredibly stable | 12:33 |
| RST38h | I had a few MCE crashes in pre-41-10, but that is about it | 12:34 |
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| RST38h | http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/10650_Symbians_Lee_Williams_on_Andro.php | 12:36 |
| * qwerty12 also found a nice "solution" to his WiFi and PSM problems: Keep the display on. Unfortunately, I'm probably wasting more power that way than just turning PSM off... | 12:36 | |
| RST38h | Keeping display on does not help me | 12:36 |
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| RST38h | 30k/100k done | 12:39 |
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| * RST38h moos at ab | 12:54 | |
| ab | RST38h, ? | 12:55 |
| RST38h | nothing, just saying hi | 12:55 |
| ab | hehe, I thought you are directing a moose against me | 12:56 |
| t_s_o | dangerous animals, those... | 12:57 |
| RST38h | 57k/100k done | 12:57 |
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| ccooke | ah, good. Setting TCPKeepAlive on ssh makes it properly responsive on the n900 again. Probably eats a little more power, of course. | 13:03 |
| RST38h | Useless factoid: branches constitute about 16% of VAX code | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | umm... | 13:05 |
| SpeedEvil | TCPKeepAlive should only send a packet every n minutes | 13:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Unless I'm confused | 13:05 |
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| RST38h | In either case, SSH Secure Shell app does not appear to have TCPKeepAlive setting | 13:06 |
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| qwerty12 | Nokia-N900-41-10:~# grep TCPKeepAlive /etc/ssh/sshd_config | 13:07 |
| qwerty12 | TCPKeepAlive yes | 13:07 |
| RST38h | that is if you ssh from N900 | 13:07 |
| RST38h | I am sshing TO N900, so my ssh client runs on Windows | 13:07 |
| RST38h | Or am I wrong? =) | 13:08 |
| qwerty12 | sshd implies that this would be done by the ssh daemon running on the device, but I could be wrong | 13:08 |
| RST38h | Sounds right. Going to set it to yes and see if it improves things =) | 13:09 |
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| RST38h | ok, it is set to yes for me too. Does not seem to be of any help though =( | 13:09 |
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| ccooke | qwerty12: you need to stick it in ~/.ssh/config - that's the user's outbound ssh config | 13:12 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, thanks | 13:12 |
| ccooke | Hmm. It was some help, at least. There's an option somewhere to set frequency, though | 13:12 |
| ccooke | one sec, it's ages since I've needed to care :-) | 13:13 |
| ccooke | That was it. ServerAliveInterval - protocol level keepalives, basically | 13:14 |
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| RST38h | will it also work for sshd? | 13:15 |
| RST38h | 100k/100k done! | 13:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Is this a vax emulator for your pocket? | 13:17 |
| RST38h | true and folse | 13:17 |
| ccooke | RST38h: I'd suggest setting tcpkeepalive to on, ServerAliveInterval to 30 and ServerAliveCountMax to 10 | 13:17 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: that would be _really_ handy for dealing with crumbs. | 13:17 |
| RST38h | false | 13:17 |
| RST38h | ccooke: thanks, trying =) | 13:17 |
| RST38h | Hehe: http://smellslikedonkey.com/wordpress/?page_id=274 | 13:18 |
| ccooke | set that in ssh_config for outbound. | 13:18 |
| ccooke | for sshd, do the same but s/Server/Client/ | 13:19 |
| ccooke | and in sshd_config of course | 13:19 |
| RST38h | aha | 13:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | Damn. WTF do I keep clicking on my order status page. | 13:20 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 13:20 | |
| RST38h | hehehe | 13:20 |
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| ccooke | the aliveinterval is how long to wait before sending a check to see if the other end is there | 13:21 |
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| ccooke | alivecountmax is how many failed ones before disconnecting | 13:21 |
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| ccooke | might need a value lower than 30 for the interval, but I'd suggest keeping the alivecountmax high enough to weather a few minutes | 13:22 |
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| RST38h | Set, testing... | 13:25 |
| RST38h | Is kill -HUP <sshdpid> sufficient to make sshd read new config? | 13:25 |
| ccooke | yes | 13:26 |
| RST38h | then it did not work =( | 13:26 |
| ccooke | no, I'm now trying with interval 10 | 13:26 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 13:26 |
| ccooke | ssh has a problem with getting too much of a backlog. | 13:27 |
| RST38h | 15 here, still does not work | 13:27 |
| ccooke | it's definitely better here, at least outbound | 13:28 |
| RST38h | it may not be obeying kill -HUP, I think | 13:28 |
| ccooke | oh, wait - are you reconnecting each time? | 13:28 |
| RST38h | yes | 13:28 |
| ccooke | you'll need to | 13:28 |
| ccooke | drat | 13:28 |
| ccooke | it shoud be, but you can try a restart. it's safe for connections | 13:29 |
| RST38h | yea | 13:29 |
| * ccooke goes quiet for a few minutes to test interval 10 | 13:29 | |
| * SpeedEvil looks at ccooke. | 13:31 | |
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| ccooke | seems to work | 13:32 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: hmm? | 13:32 |
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| ccooke | if I keep typing, the connection doesn't go idle | 13:32 |
| RST38h | 10 for sshd? | 13:32 |
| ccooke | that was 10 for client. | 13:33 |
| ccooke | and it *seems* to be fine | 13:33 |
| RST38h | ah | 13:33 |
| baze | is maemo5 and therefore the n900 running the ofono stack and which version of tracker is it using? 0.6 or 0.7? | 13:34 |
| RST38h | no ofono | 13:35 |
| Jaffa | baze: Not running oFono; but bits of its stack may end up in oFono once oFono actually exists. | 13:35 |
| RST38h | ofono is supposed to be based on some code from maemo5 but not the vice versa | 13:35 |
| RST38h | oFono actually exists right now. | 13:35 |
| baze | ok, so maemo 6 will be running ofono, i guess? | 13:35 |
| RST38h | no idea | 13:36 |
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| Jaffa | baze: Apparently, it's "unlikely" | 13:36 |
| Jaffa | There was an oFono talk at the summit, and the message was "we're not ready, we don't have much software, and it probably won't be ready for Maemo 6" | 13:36 |
| baze | i see | 13:36 |
| Ceron^ | Duke Nukem Forever is a just a 12 year running social experiment funded by the military black psyops groups to see how long any group of people can hold faith in something non-existent. The research will then be forwarded to the Vatican. | 13:37 |
| RST38h | So, the Amiga experiment did not work out for them? | 13:37 |
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| ccooke | Ceron^: as if any religion wasn't enough proof that faith can last indefinitely :-) | 13:41 |
| ccooke | (interval 10 just made me disconnect. drat) | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | pandora is also such an experiment | 13:42 |
| qwerty12 | Morning, Stskeeps. Pandora is a religious cult - they already have your money =) | 13:43 |
| ccooke | qwerty12: sounds about right | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: true, true | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | not mine, but yeah | 13:45 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: won't ping -i 10 www.microsoft.com do the same? | 13:46 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: not quite | 13:50 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: the ssh version is more efficient... if we can get the right values | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Don't see why not. | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - sure. | 13:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | If you only have one ssh running. | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | and nothing else | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | The right way is to probably find the right twiddles for the driver, and twiddle them. | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | The wifi driver is open or closed? | 13:52 |
| ccooke | not sure | 13:53 |
| ccooke | ssshmm. looks like 10 isnmt the right value :-/ | 13:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Also your delete is screwed | 13:57 |
| RST38h | how NOT to build a cell phone camera: http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/1/p/1prodammebel/C-telefona-oktyabr-2009---.jpg | 13:58 |
| wazd | pandora = scientology :) | 13:58 |
| RST38h | (anyone can provide a worse quality "photo"?) | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: well - not really. | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: What you have to understand is that VGA quality cameras are _well_ under a dollar per. | 13:59 |
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| RST38h | who cares what it costs when it doesnt work? | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | To be fair - that's not a completely easy shot | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | The sky is always going to be overexposed on ost cameras | 14:00 |
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| RST38h | there are others in the set, they actually look worse | 14:00 |
| RST38h | like this one: http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/1/p/1prodammebel/C-telefona-oktyabr-2009----.jpg | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I think it's actually fine. | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | It's just that it's in chernobyl. | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | And all the plants are wierd colours due to mutations. | 14:02 |
| v6sa | It's called autumn | 14:02 |
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| RST38h | Actually the violet tint is present on the N900 photos as well | 14:03 |
| wazd | RST38h: n900 shots? :) | 14:03 |
| v6sa | It also might be that JPEG compression was bad | 14:03 |
| RST38h | But the rest...urgh | 14:03 |
| v6sa | n900 pics are great | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I was more referring to the very odd blue at the top-right, and the top left | 14:03 |
| RST38h | wazd: No, some girl from idu_shagayu, going to ask what the hell that phone is | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I think it's actually a white balance screwup | 14:03 |
| RST38h | well the tint is the least of the problems with THESE phtos :) | 14:03 |
| wazd | RST38h: my crappy 2630 shoots better :D | 14:04 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Here's a horrible one: http://i.imgur.com/hnCqh.jpg =) | 14:04 |
| v6sa | qwert12: this is N900 pic? | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure that that might not be an upscaled smaller imager | 14:04 |
| v6sa | I mean taken with n900? | 14:04 |
| RST38h | qwerty: This actually looks about right, just out of focus and in shitty light | 14:05 |
| qwerty12 | v6sa: Nope, one taken with my horrible W810 | 14:05 |
| v6sa | :D | 14:05 |
| RST38h | qwerty: But this camera is not trying to make it worse than it has to be | 14:05 |
| v6sa | I'I see bĺur - hold camera still while takin picture | 14:05 |
| wazd | Rule #1: Don't wave to the fotocamera. | 14:06 |
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| * SpeedEvil wishes TI's impactron CCDs were available and cheap. | 14:06 | |
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| RST38h | wazd: "How have you managed to make a clear shot of 5 children and a dog? Was it photoshopped? -- No. Taxidermy!" | 14:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | There are alternative ways. The traditional photographic device of a bird in a cage, revealed for the children to look at, but replaced with a cockatrice. | 14:10 |
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| RST38h | Speed: Way more complicated than it has to be | 14:13 |
| RST38h | + no evidence of cockatrice effects working on pets | 14:14 |
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| achipa | X-Fade: ping ? | 14:17 |
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| wazd | btw, I bet n90 cam is not "real" 5MPx :) | 14:19 |
| wazd | n900* | 14:19 |
| RST38h | ? | 14:19 |
| wazd | Well, while looking at the pictures I see some interpolation engine working | 14:20 |
| RST38h | Maybe it is just the noise reduction algorithm doing its job>? | 14:21 |
| wazd | Maybe I'm wrong and that's just heavy noise cancelling, but looks like sensor is less than 5Mpx | 14:21 |
| RST38h | another detail is that the wide-screen photos are all 3.5mpx | 14:21 |
| RST38h | Only 4:3 photos are 5mpx | 14:21 |
| wazd | RST38h: eeek | 14:22 |
| wazd | RST38h: I've bought 16:9 display btw :) | 14:22 |
| RST38h | wazd: See? All that happens happens for the best =) | 14:23 |
| RST38h | But 16:9 does suck for work, unless it is a very big display | 14:23 |
| wazd | RST38h: 22" Full HD | 14:23 |
| wazd | RST38h: right now I'm just drooling at the picture it shows :D | 14:23 |
| wazd | RST38h: though it's real cheapo | 14:23 |
| RST38h | Eh =) | 14:23 |
| RST38h | Samsung? | 14:24 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://review.zdnet.com/product/lcd-monitors/lg-w2243t-pf-lcd-display-tft-215/33668918 | 14:24 |
| achipa | RST38h: the 3.5mpx is a crop, the width is the same as on the 5mpx | 14:24 |
| wazd | RST38h: it even has led backlight (hello, apple) :D | 14:24 |
| RST38h | archipa: So it should be :) | 14:24 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Any hidden traps though? Small viewing angle? Movement artefacts? | 14:25 |
| achipa | RST38h: well, not necessarily. If it was 4:3, the lower res could have been used improve image quality | 14:26 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, angles are not ideal (TN+Film, meh) but if you look straight at it - it's fine :) | 14:26 |
| wazd | RST38h: same display with IPS costs like $1000 instead of 200 | 14:26 |
| RST38h | wazd: I can live with less viewing angle at this discount =) | 14:27 |
| wazd | RST38h: but 1920x1080 is damn cool resolution, very comfortable | 14:27 |
| RST38h | 22" 16:9 would feel claustrophobic though =( | 14:27 |
| * RST38h is always tempted to rotate these things by 90o | 14:28 | |
| wazd | RST38h: well, it doesn't have rotation built in :) | 14:28 |
| RST38h | is it a function of the monitor or the computer? | 14:28 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, rotatable hinge is definitely monitor feature ;) | 14:29 |
| RST38h | oh that... | 14:29 |
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| wazd | RST38h: the only annoying thing is that huge power led | 14:30 |
| RST38h | blue? ;) | 14:30 |
| wazd | RST38h: no, orange :( | 14:30 |
| RST38h | orange is fine | 14:30 |
| wazd | RST38h: better be blue :( | 14:30 |
| * RST38h hates blue | 14:30 | |
| wazd | RST38h: my Microsoft Habu has blue backlight :) | 14:31 |
| RST38h | I have got a BBK with lighting-class blue standby LED | 14:31 |
| RST38h | You can read in the light of that damn LED | 14:32 |
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| wazd | RST38h: My Borg dvd has blue backlighting all over the disc tray :D | 14:32 |
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| * RST38h seems to remember that the blue LEDs came into fashion about the same time when the semi-transparent bluish plastic appeared for cases (the iMac style) | 14:33 | |
| RST38h | The plastic is thankfully gone but LEDs are not | 14:34 |
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| RST38h | Ok, those "photos" were made by Philips Xenium 9@9u | 14:42 |
| lbt | I'm looking for some help on dpkg and installing libs... shlibs, ldconfig and co... basically I'm not getting /usr/lib/libz.so.1 symlink being created and need to know why | 14:47 |
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| RST38h | Sorry but why do you need to install your own libz? | 14:52 |
| RST38h | Isn't there a copy of libz already in the system? | 14:52 |
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| lbt | RST38h: it's OBS stuff, not maemo5 | 15:09 |
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| lbt | more of a debian dpkg thing | 15:09 |
| lbt | actually : /usr/bin/intltool-update -p --verbose is failing | 15:10 |
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| RST38h | oh | 15:12 |
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| Ceron^ | http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/129006630393213781.jpg | 15:21 |
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| crashanddie__ | http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/4038916612/ | 15:22 |
| crashanddie__ | Next step, porting it to Maemo :) | 15:22 |
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| crashanddie__ | god this channel is quiet | 15:25 |
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| GAN900 | Hey, crashanddie_ | 15:30 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie__: +1 on your netiquette email. Very nice to read, much consideration for your readers ;-) | 15:30 |
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| crashanddie__ | o/ GAN900 & Jaffa | 15:34 |
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| Anwarboy11 | Release date,,,, anyone? | 15:41 |
| lbt | 25 December | 15:41 |
| Flyser | 25th of Nov | 15:41 |
| wazd | crashanddie__: deja vu? :) | 15:42 |
| Anwarboy11 | variation :S | 15:42 |
| Anwarboy11 | 25th november!!! | 15:42 |
| Flyser | Anwarboy11: the offical statement is "during november" | 15:42 |
| lbt | nah, I have inside info | 15:42 |
| Anwarboy11 | lbt u being serious | 15:42 |
| lbt | there's a major bug | 15:42 |
| lbt | y, always | 15:42 |
| lbt | don't gossip about it though | 15:43 |
| Flyser | I doubt Nokia will release the device after christmas | 15:43 |
| Anwarboy11 | whats the major bug? | 15:43 |
| lbt | Anwarboy11: the case isn't white | 15:43 |
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| Anwarboy11 | ? | 15:44 |
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| Flyser | lbt: My best guess is https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5315 but I am not sure | 15:44 |
| crashanddie__ | wazd, deja vu? | 15:44 |
| lbt | and the colour clashes with Arii's Alfa Romeo | 15:44 |
| Flyser | Anwarboy11: ↑ meant for you | 15:44 |
| Anwarboy11 | kk | 15:44 |
| Flyser | lbt: :-) | 15:44 |
| Anwarboy11 | ah | 15:44 |
| Anwarboy11 | so 3 sims arnt working | 15:44 |
| Anwarboy11 | i was so looking forward to getting this phone on november the 2nd | 15:45 |
| Anwarboy11 | (the date i was quoted by mpd) | 15:45 |
| Flyser | I guess they have to flash the modem firmware, which isn't possible with a simple firmware update | 15:45 |
| Flyser | Anwarboy11: wont happen ... | 15:45 |
| Anwarboy11 | yh..... | 15:45 |
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| Anwarboy11 | i was so tempted to buy a new phone | 15:46 |
| Anwarboy11 | iphone or satio.... then i decided to waitfor n900 | 15:46 |
| Anwarboy11 | seems i wait longer | 15:46 |
| lbt | but you get a much cooler phone ;) | 15:46 |
| Anwarboy11 | yh...true | 15:46 |
| Anwarboy11 | anyone else here pre-orderd and from wher? | 15:46 |
| wazd | crashanddie__: I already seen this flickr link with "next step - port it to maemo" :D | 15:47 |
| Anwarboy11 | i preorderd from MOBILEPHONESDIRECT....anyone else order from ther | 15:48 |
| Macer | ok. lets see if this opensolaris update makes my damn server stop from freezing | 15:48 |
| crashanddie__ | wazd, heh, that means you were up way to late, just like me :P | 15:49 |
| lbt | Anwarboy11: realistically no-one here has anything other than a clue what's happening. If they did and they said anything, Nokia would sack them. | 15:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Anwarboy11: no, I ordered from nokia. | 15:52 |
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| Anwarboy11 | trutru lbt | 15:54 |
| Anwarboy11 | wonder how long the preorder quew 4 MPD is | 15:55 |
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| Flyser | Anwarboy11: call them and ask :-) | 15:55 |
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| RST38h | Breakin detection and evasion now starting! | 16:20 |
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| RST38h | This thing is a Mercedes Benz of operating systems... Your Linux isn't even close. | 16:20 |
| GAN900 | Lot of disgruntled 770 users here. | 16:21 |
| RST38h | You mean, maemo.org Midgard is down again? | 16:22 |
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| crashanddie__ | Anwarboy11, mind speaking english? | 16:30 |
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| crashanddie__ | wow | 16:33 |
| crashanddie__ | a spammer who isn't obvious | 16:33 |
| crashanddie__ | You may return the item within ten (30) days of delivery of the order. | 16:33 |
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| crashanddie__ | A rest rocking fee maybe applied to your return. | 16:34 |
| RST38h | FAIL | 16:34 |
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| crashanddie__ | We look forward in placing your Order with Us | 16:36 |
| crashanddie__ | so they're going to place my order with them? Recursive scamming? | 16:36 |
| RST38h | they are chinese, that's all | 16:37 |
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| crashanddie__ | don't spam tmo | 16:38 |
| crashanddie__ | all I ask | 16:38 |
| crashanddie__ | ok | 16:38 |
| crashanddie__ | lunch | 16:38 |
| crashanddie__ | well, linner | 16:38 |
| crashanddie__ | lunner? | 16:38 |
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| JosefAssad | moin | 16:55 |
| JosefAssad | the SDK; sompletely self-contained in /scratchbox/ ? i.e. I can rm that and get busy reinstalling it? | 16:55 |
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| lbt | JosefAssad: no | 17:04 |
| lbt | you should use the package manager to clean up | 17:04 |
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| JosefAssad | lbt: alright, problem being I followed this http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution and now want to remove it and use what that same page calls the "manual" way, i.e. package manager | 17:06 |
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| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Un-installation | 17:08 |
| lbt | should work | 17:08 |
| JosefAssad | ah, silly me | 17:08 |
| lbt | if the script worked | 17:08 |
| lbt | then it used the package manager | 17:08 |
| lbt | doing itthe manual way | 17:08 |
| lbt | makes no difference | 17:08 |
| JosefAssad | oh, I get it | 17:08 |
| JosefAssad | alright | 17:08 |
| lbt | it's just if you're on a weird box then the scripted install may fail | 17:09 |
| lbt | they did it "right" | 17:09 |
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| lbt | anyhow, I guess "welcome to maemo" ... or at least maemo-dev :) | 17:10 |
| JosefAssad | lbt: no, it worked fine. But I'm seeing odd errors and am wondering if it has anytihng to do with my distro. Debian testing that is | 17:10 |
| lbt | nah I'm on debian testing-ish | 17:10 |
| JosefAssad | lbt: Which is why I was thinking a reinstall and more careful reinstall might help | 17:10 |
| lbt | problems? | 17:10 |
| JosefAssad | lbt: too scattered to really make terribly much sense yet. I'm stepping through the install to see if anything makes enough sense for either a bug report or a wiki edit | 17:11 |
| lbt | sure | 17:11 |
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| Macer | wow | 17:20 |
| Macer | that was like a thousand cool points lost | 17:20 |
| Macer | if i am right... my server has been freezing because i forgot to rm the old home dirs when i moved them from rpool to the raid | 17:21 |
| Macer | so my OS drive(s) had like 1G free :) | 17:21 |
| * Macer goes somewhere to lash himself | 17:21 | |
| SpeedEvil | Down the pub? | 17:22 |
| Macer | heh | 17:22 |
| Macer | no. it's 9am. too early to drink. but i am not much of a drinker anymore anyways | 17:22 |
| Macer | back in my spotty youth you couldn't find me sober :) | 17:22 |
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| javispedro | http://vimeo.com/7214912 n900 helsinki meetup is finally up. | 17:29 |
| Moabird | I think I'm gonna grab myself an N900 for Christmas if it lives up to the hype. I think app support or lack thereof is the crucial element. | 17:30 |
| SpeedEvil | There will initially be veery few apps | 17:31 |
| SpeedEvil | I would expect a handfull by christmas | 17:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Other than meta-packages like emulators that can automatically run all their games. | 17:32 |
| javispedro | "app support" is grossly overrated. | 17:33 |
| javispedro | look at the iphone. not a single app for a year. | 17:34 |
| Moabird | javispedro: Oh? Explain. | 17:34 |
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| Moabird | Yes, and prior to that, it sucked. | 17:34 |
| javispedro | "app support". you make it sound like if all it needs is apps, apps, and apps. | 17:34 |
| javispedro | no | 17:34 |
| javispedro | you have needs. concrete real needs. | 17:34 |
| javispedro | and wait for the two, or three apps that will solve them. | 17:34 |
| javispedro | not the hundreds of them. | 17:34 |
| Flyser | And what if my concrete need is "tons of apps"? | 17:35 |
| Moabird | Yeah, I have rather wide-ranging needs, and not all of them are mainstream. Therefore, the more total apps on a phone, the likelier those apps that fill my needs get made, due to a large target market. | 17:35 |
| BBNS | =P man, maemo team are eating like crazy ... | 17:36 |
| SpeedEvil | At some point, it's not implausible that android apps will be able to be played | 17:36 |
| javispedro | Flyser: then you buy a gameboy :) | 17:36 |
| SpeedEvil | but that's not going to be immediate. | 17:36 |
| Flyser | afk, shopping :D | 17:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Moabird: Or you learn to code, and write the interactive stir-frying while hang-gliding tutorial. | 17:37 |
| javispedro | a tutorial is an app? | 17:38 |
| Moabird | SpeedEvil: I could, but I'm not gonna, seeing as coding's a pain in the ass and my time is limited as is. | 17:38 |
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| javispedro | that's the problem. apps is being confused by "content". | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: If it's interactive enough | 17:38 |
| javispedro | s/by/with | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: For example, I want a decent MRI tutorial text, with a simulated MRI imager. | 17:39 |
| javispedro | simulated MRI imager? O.o | 17:39 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: enabling you to look at k-space, signal aquisition, pulse sequences, and vary them and accurately simulate with a virtual body. | 17:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | yeah - I'm trying to understand MRI, as I want to build one. | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Admittedly a bad one. | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | If you put a hand in, within 3 hours, it will be able to tell that it's probably a hand. | 17:40 |
| derf | Most people can't hold their hand still that long. | 17:41 |
| javispedro | this guy giving the first talk in the meetup talks like steve jobs himself. | 17:41 |
| SpeedEvil | They can if you cut it off. | 17:41 |
| javispedro | if i had no video I would have though the brought the man himself. | 17:41 |
| javispedro | s/the/they | 17:41 |
| derf | I'm mostly interested in the diffusion rate of water in my subjects, so that poses more of a problem for me. | 17:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | Or imagine a car maintainance textbook, where you could add intermittent faults, or ... to a simulated engine, and see what it did. | 17:43 |
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| javispedro | SpeedEvil: you're talking about so concrete examples I even doubt you can find one of those outside Win32. | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: I totally agree - I was just trying to make the point that in some cases app/content boundary becomed blurred. | 17:44 |
| javispedro | touché. In fact, the car simulated engine you mention came as a freebie after buying a car maintainance textbook. | 17:45 |
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| BBNS | SpeedEvil: looks like your application is similar to computer vision | 17:46 |
| BBNS | SpeedEvil: OpenCV is able to run on Maemo5, wonder if that help. | 17:46 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 17:46 |
| BBNS | MRI image analyse, isnt it what you need? | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | ah - well - in some ways. | 17:47 |
| Firebird | hm, anyone tried using the camera button as a fullscreen button yet? | 17:47 |
| SpeedEvil | The problem is that to go from stored body database -> output image - with all of the features of the image done well means detailed knowledge and simulation of the underlying physics of the imager. | 17:47 |
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| BBNS | http://www.youtube.com/user/0penCV this is all kinds of application you can do with OpenCV | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | BBNS: yes - that's interesting - the hard part about a MRI imager isn't what to do when you've got the image - it's the underlying physics of how that image is formed - and what this means with different type of object being imaged. | 17:50 |
| BBNS | SpeedEvil: that's probably beyond my knowledge then. =P but you could do certain calculation in reasonable speed on N900. | 17:50 |
| BBNS | there is Markov Measure video in OpenCV channel. | 17:51 |
| pupnik | camera button is intended to override apps | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | BBNS: Think of a colour->greyscale converter with three sliders to select RGB weights to a greyscale image. With MRI, you might have a few dozen sliders, and a hundredish colour dimensions. | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a _beautiful_ application of physics and maths to the real world. | 17:52 |
| BBNS | probably too heavy to handle on the device then. but server-client achitecture might do. | 17:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | yeah - it was more of an example - than something I plan to code or the n900 | 17:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | my current aims are rather more modest. | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Something along the lines of an audio + photo tool to generate georeferenced audio tags and photos as well as keystrokes on an external bluetooth keypad for use in openstreetmap | 17:54 |
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| * RST38h has come up with a perfect idea for a Nokia service | 19:07 | |
| RST38h | and it is not music, movies, maps, or app store | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | reindeer store? | 19:08 |
| sin18 | does anyone know the new url format for google street (maemo mapper) because mine doesn't seem to work anymore ? | 19:08 |
| RST38h | Sts: Way way simpler | 19:08 |
| koala_man | plain deer store? | 19:08 |
| RST38h | So simple that only a complete idiot would not see it | 19:08 |
| crashanddie__ | who here works on the SSO solution for (maemo)? | 19:09 |
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| RST38h | Sts: THE FIRMWARE UPDATES | 19:09 |
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| RST38h | I.e. regular, well advertised firmware updates that bring new features and actually fix things | 19:10 |
| GAN900 | pupnik, ping? | 19:11 |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: when was the last time you purchased an n900? | 19:11 |
| RST38h | Such a service alone would make people buy Nokia phones left and right, if advertised properly (i.e. "Nokia cares about you, even when your warranty has long run out", etc) | 19:11 |
| RST38h | Did I mention N900? | 19:11 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia cares | 19:13 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 19:13 | |
| timeless_mbp | what, you think we're microsoft? | 19:13 |
| timeless_mbp | that we want you to use the latest and greatest software? | 19:13 |
| * RST38h feels the urge to pass all invalid-addressing-mode instructions to interpreter and forget about them | 19:15 | |
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| timeless_mbp | btw, does Intel offer you micro-code update announcements for your cpus? | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | heck, i don't suppose you have a Dell, IBM, or similar desktop/laptop compute | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | r | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | most of them offer an incomprehensible database of updated software bits | 19:16 |
| * timeless_mbp has tried to use a number of them... absolute pain | 19:16 | |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, about the only company which cares in this area is really microsoft | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | ways it cares: | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. patch tuesday (a regularly scheduled event) | 19:17 |
| * RST38h isn't sure what made timeless so agitated: by saying "Nokia" he did not mean timeless, in any context | 19:17 | |
| timeless_mbp | 2. driver database for updates from third parties | 19:17 |
| timeless_mbp | you shouted THE FIRMWARE UPDATES | 19:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | when us poor engineers at nokia are still trying to get the ORIGINAL product finalized | 19:17 |
| timeless_mbp | and well... management has strange goals which don't necessarily align w/ engineering | 19:18 |
| pupnik | GAN900: hi what | 19:18 |
| RST38h | Nokia has got shitloads of products "finalized", and some of them even work. | 19:18 |
| timeless_mbp | if you have suggestions focussed or directed to management, i kindly request that you send them directly to Nokia Care | 19:18 |
| pupnik | cranky this morning, RST38h ? :) | 19:18 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll gladly find the local phone number for you | 19:18 |
| RST38h | pupnik: It's evening | 19:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | please note that I've actually recently worked to improve the quality of Nokia Care behavior | 19:18 |
| RST38h | pupnik: I have just found the reason for some verification test failures and being lazy came up with a perfect idea for Nokia service | 19:19 |
| * pupnik gives timeless_mbp a well deserved cookie | 19:19 | |
| timeless_mbp | and if their behavior sucks, please let me know, i finally have a contact who can kick ass if bad behavior is encountered in that area | 19:19 |
| pupnik | nice RST38h | 19:19 |
| sin18 | any maemo mapper users around ? | 19:19 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Remember Nokia saying that it is all about services now? Cocreation workshop etc? | 19:19 |
| pupnik | right! | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: i think i'll eat that w/ dinner, for which i'm nearly an hour overdue | 19:20 |
| timeless_mbp | thanks :) | 19:20 |
| RST38h | pupnik: So the idea I have got is to provide regular firmware updates to most released phone models and widely advertise new features and fixes | 19:20 |
| RST38h | pupnik: This way the customer doesn't just get a brick of electronic parts, he also gets kinda subscription for firmware | 19:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: sadly, some significant portion of our customer base is cell phone vendors | 19:21 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: If enough people are made aware of the fact that Nokia will support and extend their experience after they spend the money, that should make people buy more handsets | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | who cripple our products | 19:21 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Notice that Apple and now Crackberry are already doing just this | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd imagine they'd be annoyed if we advertised features to their customers that they don't want their customers to have | 19:21 |
| RST38h | Android too | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | wow | 19:22 |
| timeless_mbp | sun tried to fix vbox for me | 19:22 |
| * timeless_mbp grins | 19:22 | |
| * pupnik runs away | 19:22 | |
| timeless_mbp | good vendor | 19:22 |
| romaxa_ | MicroB Themes installation tutorial: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/11/ | 19:23 |
| romaxa_ | MicroB AdBlock Plus installation tutorial: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/12 | 19:23 |
| RST38h | romaxa: =) | 19:23 |
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| timeless_mbp | romaxa_: if everything worked right, that should have made the rss aggregator | 19:24 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders if it did | 19:24 | |
| qwerty12 | romaxa_: Awesome | 19:24 |
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| romaxa_ | ups something wrong with screen-shoots position... on news/12... better to browser through http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/ page | 19:25 |
| RST38h | romaxa: something is wrong with the layout | 19:25 |
| RST38h | When the browse window is too narrow, it places the actual news list underneath the menu | 19:26 |
| RST38h | And by "narrow" I mean something like 800-1000 pixels | 19:26 |
| * GAN900 pupnik One "tanget" is here, says she knows you from undernet. Wants to know of you're trolling. | 19:28 | |
| romaxa_ | now style should be fixed. | 19:28 |
| jeremiah | mairas: Let me know if uploading the debs to extras-devel diablo and fremantle is okay | 19:28 |
| jeremiah | mairas: Or if you guys just want to target one distro | 19:28 |
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| BBNS | mmm ... puyopuyo on N900 .... love it ... | 19:31 |
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| iDialekt | ? | 19:32 |
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| BBNS | iDialekt: game on extra-devel | 19:39 |
| BBNS | can't believe so many emulators already ported it! =P | 19:40 |
| iDialekt | I see. I get the chills hearing any new info about the n900 | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I get chills. | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | They're multiplying. | 19:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | And I'm losing control! | 19:40 |
| iDialekt | Lanscape only still bothers me | 19:40 |
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| BBNS | SpeedEvil: someone should capture the screenshot of the emulators available on N900 ... to piss off those xPhone fanboys. | 19:41 |
| iDialekt | Id | 19:41 |
| iDialekt | Id rather see YouTube video | 19:41 |
| iDialekt | In game action | 19:41 |
| BBNS | iDialekt: portrait mode browsing will be supported by the end of this year. | 19:41 |
| iDialekt | Screenshots don't mean anything nowadays lol | 19:41 |
| iDialekt | Yeah hopefully portrait mode OS for desktop and everything else will be supported too | 19:42 |
| iDialekt | It's down to n900 and motorola droid | 19:42 |
| pupnik | why do people think portrait mode is an os issue | 19:43 |
| iDialekt | Verizon CDMA makes me angry though but I don't go out of the country often | 19:43 |
| pupnik | i think it's an app issue | 19:43 |
| iDialekt | well if it doesn't work on desktop it's ummm... | 19:43 |
| iDialekt | A lot of people want to do things one handed | 19:43 |
| pupnik | people who want 'automagic portrait' don't have any idea what they are demanding | 19:44 |
| pupnik | and hence should be troutslapped, imo | 19:44 |
| BBNS | i wouldn't bother motorola droid =P i would choose snapdragon CPU from HTC if i have to choose non-Maemo based phone. | 19:44 |
| iDialekt | And retain the quick phone feel but not only for phone applications | 19:44 |
| pupnik | but the app needs to be designed for specific one-handed portrait use | 19:44 |
| pupnik | depending on exactly what people do with the app | 19:44 |
| iDialekt | Of course | 19:44 |
| iDialekt | But we cant even get portrait on desktop etc | 19:45 |
| pupnik | this idea that apps should be built on some kind of framework that supports arbitrary screen layouts is fine but can not be made a requirement. | 19:45 |
| RST38h | iDialekt: the Droid shows the Eye of Sauron on startup. | 19:45 |
| RST38h | iDialekt: doesn't it make you worry? | 19:45 |
| * RST38h cackles | 19:45 | |
| pupnik | so people who demand such, are really demanding that we throw out most of what makes maemo so powerful and flexible - the large legacy of foss linux apps | 19:46 |
| pupnik | imo | 19:46 |
| pupnik | which is not a very popular o | 19:46 |
| iDialekt | Huh? | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: not really | 19:46 |
| iDialekt | What am I asking you to throw away? | 19:46 |
| iDialekt | Functionality? | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: only those apps that can't cope with a resized window | 19:46 |
| iDialekt | Ease of use? | 19:46 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Can I point your attention to one little tiny thing? =) | 19:46 |
| pupnik | which is 99.999999% of apps SpeedEvil | 19:46 |
| pupnik | not just resized, but resized on a tiny window that is 480pix wide | 19:47 |
| iDialekt | Things need to be finger friendly, easy to use, snappy, intuitive, | 19:47 |
| w00t | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31173 | 19:47 |
| iDialekt | In terms of success in a broader market | 19:47 |
| pupnik | iDialekt: if the *demands* of those in the extreme-portrait-jackboot-camp are accepted then we must throw out most linux apps and confine maemo to apple-like UI guidelines | 19:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | I don't see a problem with a finger-friendly app-store. | 19:48 |
| iDialekt | Not everyone has the time to whip out the keyboard and sit down and focus completely on 2 hand typing | 19:48 |
| RST38h | pupnik: From the point of view of an application, N900 screen is not really a screen | 19:48 |
| RST38h | pupnik: It is a window. When you rotate it, the "window" is resized | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a cheese! | 19:49 |
| pupnik | sure | 19:49 |
| iDialekt | If that were the case then we wouldn't have maemo 6 addressing the landscape issue now would we? pupnik | 19:49 |
| RST38h | pupnik: So any OSS app worth its shit that adapts to resize events, should work just fine in both modes | 19:49 |
| pupnik | nokia is a company trying to sell units, it must sometimes also bend to stupid trends | 19:49 |
| iDialekt | so you agree with me then now? | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 19:50 |
| iDialekt | Stupid trends that aid in functionality? | 19:50 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: And if it does not, well, compile it as a tiny floating window that will work in both orientations again | 19:50 |
| crashanddie__ | iDialekt, having an on-screen keyboard isn't following trends | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | There will be many apps introduced or ported that will cope with portrait and finger mode well. | 19:50 |
| iDialekt | When did I say it was? | 19:51 |
| SpeedEvil | For a large number of legacy apps, it's not really going to work without the stylus | 19:51 |
| SpeedEvil | and/or keyb | 19:51 |
| crashanddie__ | iDialekt, when toyota sells a car with wheels, it's not "following trends", it's just common sense | 19:51 |
| iDialekt | You are triggering the wrong nick | 19:51 |
| iDialekt | Kthx | 19:52 |
| crashanddie__ | I am not | 19:52 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie__: however - when it puts an airbag in that is sized to restrain unbelted passengers and puts smaller drivers at risk, it is following trends. ( | 19:52 |
| iDialekt | pupniknokia is a company trying to sell units, it must sometimes also bend to stupid trends | 19:52 |
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| iDialekt | pupnik is who you should be pointing at not me | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | And I utterly don't care about default UI, as long as I can run xephem with pointer and keyboard if I want to. | 19:53 |
| pupnik | ? | 19:53 |
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| pupnik | interesting discussion | 19:53 |
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| iDialekt | All im saying is id like portrait mode for any portion of the os | 19:54 |
| pupnik | just sayin i think app developer needs to explicitly support portrait and make a good layout for it - not some auto-bling-high-level-declarative ui. blech blech. | 19:54 |
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| iDialekt | Lol well most would want the portrait feature to be automatic depending on your orientation | 19:55 |
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| pupnik | RST38h: and if i'd designed HTTP i'd have included a requirement that client post the current window size, so server can decide on layout. | 19:55 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: Exactly hte same can be said about landscape | 19:55 |
| pupnik | right | 19:55 |
| RST38h | pupnik: This apparently is already done | 19:56 |
| pupnik | just saying that some of the portraid-mode advocates are asking for something that is currently unrealistic and (probably) a gross mess for maemo6 | 19:56 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Or can be done with relative ease: either through UserAgent or in JS | 19:56 |
| pupnik | right | 19:56 |
| RST38h | pupnik: For Nokia's builtin apps it will require work | 19:56 |
| pupnik | well last i looked i couldn't get it from js (2000) | 19:56 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Not unrealistic, just needs work | 19:56 |
| iDialekt | Unrealistic because of the nature of "some" apps? | 19:57 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Google Analytics gets it somehow | 19:57 |
| RST38h | iDialekt: No, just because of the lack of resources | 19:57 |
| pupnik | no because this one-size-fits all widgetry makes for really suboptimal apps | 19:57 |
| RST38h | Also, for stuff like video player portrait mode makes no sense | 19:57 |
| pupnik | take for e.g. camera app in maemo5. the UI actually gets in the way of data you need to see | 19:57 |
| crashanddie__ | don't you hate it when Finance casually "forgets" to pay you your expenses? | 19:57 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Naah, I think you are wrong there: their widgets can be used in either mode | 19:57 |
| iDialekt | Well maybe maemo is a platform that's not really built for consumers like me? | 19:57 |
| pupnik | for e.g. when changing white balance, the buttons take up 3/5ths of the screen and the rest of camera preview is greyed-out | 19:58 |
| RST38h | And the camera UI can be redesigned. It works pretty well on S60e5, so why not on Maemo? | 19:58 |
| pupnik | great opportunity for an ovi app btw | 19:58 |
| SpeedEvil | iDialekt: it's not - yet. | 19:58 |
| RST38h | iDialekt: Can I ask you something? | 19:58 |
| iDialekt | I consider myself to be a heavy user with demands somewhat above the average consumer but i think lately I want something that simply works | 19:58 |
| iDialekt | Sure | 19:58 |
| RST38h | iDialekt: Have you personally tried using N900? | 19:58 |
| SpeedEvil | iDialekt: It will get apps which work in portrait mode and stuff - they're just not going to hit in large numbers for christmas | 19:59 |
| iDialekt | Yes | 19:59 |
| RST38h | iDialekt: And it did not work for you? Feeling wrong? | 19:59 |
| crashanddie__ | iDialekt, nope, your demands are not above anything average, you are absolutely average... You're demanding, you don't know what you're talking about, and you have no consideration for the rest of the planet, you are, ABSOLUTE, average | 19:59 |
| iDialekt | Lol | 19:59 |
| crashanddie__ | [/rant] | 19:59 |
| iDialekt | Well it simply didn't live up to my expectations | 19:59 |
| crashanddie__ | iDialekt, did you try the Pre? | 20:00 |
| iDialekt | The screen was beautiful. Full fledged browser but it felt like a chore | 20:00 |
| crashanddie__ | iDialekt, or the new Sony Ericsson? Or the iPhone? What would be your comparison/remarks against those? | 20:00 |
| iDialekt | Browsing was not really up to par with you know who | 20:00 |
| iDialekt | Then iPhone | 20:00 |
| crashanddie__ | iDialekt, (actually, I'm quite honestly interested, I'm tired of the Nokia fanboyism) | 20:00 |
| iDialekt | And android even suited a bit better | 20:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | What irritated you about browsing? | 20:01 |
| crashanddie__ | What was the problem with browsing? | 20:01 |
| iDialekt | Well prior to the iPhone nokia was the only choice for me | 20:01 |
| crashanddie__ | Browsing is probably the strongest point IMHO | 20:01 |
| iDialekt | Well just the resizing in general and the way it handled pages.. | 20:01 |
| iDialekt | I felt like I had to take my time and really focus on what i wanted to do | 20:02 |
| crashanddie__ | iDialekt, which version of the n900 was this? | 20:02 |
| iDialekt | Zooming and other features .. I had to zoom incrediby | 20:02 |
| crashanddie__ | it's a 3" screen, and you're annoyed at zooming? | 20:02 |
| iDialekt | It could have been an early unit since this was about 2 weeks ago | 20:02 |
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| crashanddie__ | hmm, no, probably standard summit giveaway | 20:02 |
| iDialekt | crashanddie__: Do you own one? | 20:02 |
| crashanddie__ | yeah | 20:03 |
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| iDialekt | Ah. | 20:03 |
| iDialekt | There were a lot of strong points as well. | 20:03 |
| iDialekt | It's hard because android is making a fuss as well | 20:03 |
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| iDialekt | I really like all 3 platforms to be honest | 20:03 |
| crashanddie__ | same here | 20:04 |
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| iDialekt | The pre is on the wrong hardware and will be for some time | 20:04 |
| RST38h | iDialekt: Well if it does not feel right then I would indeed wait until maemo6 or something | 20:04 |
| crashanddie__ | the iPhone is sexy and slick, and that's why a lot of people like it, but realistically, the limitations are shit and the screen is horrible | 20:04 |
| iDialekt | Webos rather | 20:04 |
| crashanddie__ | WebOS is shit | 20:04 |
| iDialekt | Screen horrible? | 20:04 |
| iDialekt | Looks fine to me. | 20:04 |
| crashanddie__ | of the iPhone? Yeah... Horrible resolution | 20:04 |
| crashanddie__ | seriously, is this the 90s? Who works with a 320px resolution? | 20:05 |
| iDialekt | I've been without a desktop for 2 months now | 20:05 |
| iDialekt | If put that way yes | 20:05 |
| iDialekt | But in so many ways apple has nailed the finger friendliness, ease of use, intuitiveness. | 20:05 |
| crashanddie__ | The Pre is probably the thing that'll finish palm once and for all | 20:06 |
| iDialekt | So many aspects make sense and make it hard when comparing to other touch screen devices | 20:06 |
| RST38h | everybody was sooooo upbeat about the pre | 20:06 |
| iDialekt | The pre had amazing potential | 20:06 |
| iDialekt | But I'll pass on the toddler keyboard kthx | 20:06 |
| crashanddie__ | and then Palm pointed the shotgun at their head and pulled the trigger | 20:06 |
| iDialekt | crashanddie__: What don't you like about the pre ? Lol | 20:07 |
| crashanddie__ | the UI? Looks like a bloody star trek device, or worse, matrix? | 20:07 |
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| crashanddie__ | the keyboard feels like the one you get on a 360 controller | 20:08 |
| iDialekt | Hahaha | 20:08 |
| iDialekt | Hahahahaa | 20:08 |
| crashanddie__ | the software is sluggish and slow, and developing for it requires you to, I quote "Start thinking in a whole new way" | 20:08 |
| iDialekt | Yeah pretty gross | 20:08 |
| iDialekt | Im not sure if it's here to stay | 20:09 |
| iDialekt | Especially with the Pixie Chix coming out | 20:09 |
| crashanddie__ | which is basically like "I invented this awesome new tool to cook all your food, as long as you want to eat horse poo" | 20:09 |
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| RST38h | Developing for iPhone also requires you to start thinking in a whole new way, and then there is Steve Jobs with his toilet plunger aimed at your ass | 20:10 |
| RST38h | Still, people develop for iPhone | 20:10 |
| iDialekt | :( | 20:10 |
| crashanddie__ | the iPhone did nearly the same, but they did it right. They told the developers "No, you will have to use ObjC, and that's that". The main difference is that ObjC has power and efficiency, and is easy to pick up | 20:10 |
| crashanddie__ | The whole iPhone thing was just "Tell them something shit, but then show them the nice finger UI animation", and that's how they managed to have everyone use it | 20:11 |
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| crashanddie__ | I'm going to invest in the carrot industry. Because in this world of donkeys, it's the best way to have people swallow anything you want | 20:12 |
| crashanddie__ | anyway, I'm late to meet some fellow cyclists, ttyl | 20:12 |
| RST38h | Useless factoid #2: Bitfield operations constitute about 11% of VAX code | 20:17 |
| SpeedEvil | what language is the pre on? | 20:17 |
| RST38h | HTML :) | 20:17 |
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| pupnik | RST38h could write a wicked set of trivial pursuit questions :) | 20:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah - they bought hte web-app cool-aid. | 20:18 |
| |R_ | HTML is not turing complete! ;) | 20:19 |
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| GAN900 | ~ping | 20:32 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:32 |
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| arpwatch | is there some documentation on how to get a network connection working in the sdk? | 20:47 |
| Flandry | gah | 20:50 |
| Flandry | can someone point me to a good tutorial on debianization? | 20:50 |
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| dechang | maemo on x86 system, possible? | 20:53 |
| tekonivel | dechang: are you mad? | 20:53 |
| dechang | maybe, but somehow i feel it is possible, just wanna check if anybody has started it somehow. | 20:55 |
| Flandry | the sdk runs on x86 | 20:55 |
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| Flandry | in a little 800x480 window ;) | 20:55 |
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| dechang | coz after all, they are linux in disguise | 20:56 |
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| crashanddie__ | dechang, are you reading what people are saying? | 21:12 |
| crashanddie__ | dechang, most of the SDK is already compiled for x86 | 21:12 |
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| arpwatch | dechang; are you wanting to run the UI on your desktop or something? | 21:16 |
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| dechang | sorry, checking vd just now. | 21:21 |
| dechang | man, so hungry at this late hour, i need to get some vege food.... | 21:24 |
| RST38h | ehehehe: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/10/500x_Screen_shot_2009-10-24_at_10.08.36_AM.jpg | 21:25 |
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| Corsac | mpf, n900 price at expansys is now raising >< | 21:34 |
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| * kirma browses nokia service schematics | 21:35 | |
| kirma | wondering about the naming conventions of the chips at nokia... plenty of them still seem to have finnish words as names | 21:36 |
| kirma | vapaus, rapu, aura, etc | 21:36 |
| kirma | also wondering how over-capable the rapu-yama chip serving as gsm radio part on N900 actually is... | 21:37 |
| suihkulokki | kirma: @alt ? | 21:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | kirma: you almost certainly will never ever be able to program it. | 21:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also - what do you mean by capable. | 21:40 |
| kirma | speedevil: didn't really even consider that | 21:40 |
| SpeedEvil | In general a hell of a lot is done in hardware. | 21:40 |
| kirma | from various schematics, I'm trying to understand if it actually contains a 32-bit ARM core or something, and if it's very much a rather "capable" SoC powering many of nokia phones without any other CPU... | 21:41 |
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| kirma | also finding it interesting that some schematics specify a 3D magnetometer on phones that, to my knowledge, don't have one. | 21:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | kirma: the capability to add a magnetometer is almost free | 21:45 |
| SpeedEvil | the actual chip is rather expensive at the moment - but may not stay so | 21:45 |
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| kirma | understandable, yes | 21:46 |
| SpeedEvil | As a comparison - the _very_ old calypso chipset used in the freerunner/... had two arm cores | 21:46 |
| SpeedEvil | One that ran the hard-realtime stuff, and the other that could in principle also run application code as well as the lower level software stack | 21:46 |
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| kirma | yep, it's sort of understandable | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | There are even leaked docs on it | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | including full hard ware programming specs | 21:47 |
| * pupnik wants multi-kernel select at boot time. doable? donations to fanoush? | 21:48 | |
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| * pupnik watches the cloud thought bubbles appear | 21:49 | |
| SpeedEvil | It obviously should support 6 kernels. | 21:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Based on uppermost edge of the phone. | 21:50 |
| kirma | speedevil: "small" microcontrollers are quite understandable... especially for realtime stuff that's otherwise much trickier to implement | 21:50 |
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| pupnik | ATTN summit attendees: whoever got video footage with a board feed of the audio, please upload and link to them on http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009#Videos thanks! | 21:58 |
| pupnik | my lecture recordings are not really usable due to echo/hall from the room | 21:58 |
| achipa_irssi | fiddling with the irc plugin... how is this thing supposed to work ? :) it says it nedds an internet connection, so I guess I must be doing something wrong :) | 21:59 |
| achipa_irssi | s/nedds/needs/ | 21:59 |
| infobot | achipa_irssi meant: fiddling with the irc plugin... how is this thing supposed to work ? :) it says it needs an internet connection, so I guess I must be doing something wrong :) | 21:59 |
| pupnik | nice test | 22:00 |
| RST38h | irc plugin does not work | 22:00 |
| RST38h | you can log into irc with it but cant do much | 22:00 |
| achipa_irssi | ah :( | 22:00 |
| pupnik | it exposes only the IM functionality | 22:00 |
| pupnik | i thought at least | 22:00 |
| pupnik | there might be a way to coordinate irssi with it - and have it integrated for PMs | 22:01 |
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| pupnik | well, a few ways | 22:01 |
| RST38h | This reminds me of having to uninstall both plugins | 22:02 |
| achipa_irssi | yeah, there seems to be some sort of conflict | 22:03 |
| achipa_irssi | between tho im plugins | 22:03 |
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| achipa_irssi | pupnik: in that case, jabber services would be fun, too | 22:05 |
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| pupnik | hm | 22:07 |
| pupnik | the integrated approach to IMs makes a lot of sense to me | 22:07 |
| pupnik | ++ nokia | 22:07 |
| pupnik | not that i use them so much, but connected people surely do | 22:07 |
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| kirma | hmh. | 22:14 |
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| kirma | wondering if accelerometer could be used as input method when the input comes as "tapping" the device from specific direction | 22:15 |
| kirma | well, rather: it should work, technically speaking. | 22:16 |
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| kirma | how useful, reliable and distinctive that actually could be is the question | 22:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | kirma: yes | 22:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | kirma: it works OK - but of course only when it's handheld | 22:20 |
| SpeedEvil | It's good for pageturn say | 22:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | but of course falses on bangs | 22:21 |
| lardman | evening chaps | 22:21 |
| RST38h | hey alardman | 22:21 |
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| kirma | having the actual acceleration data available for detailed analysis would help, but I suppose the device is, most of the time, run in mode where it generates interrupts only on bigger changes and thus the software is "blind" on events when it's mostly idle...(?) | 22:22 |
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| kirma | because reading 100/400 Hz sampling data would make power saving pretty bad | 22:23 |
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| RST38h | afaik it is not interrupt but query based | 22:23 |
| lardman | hi RST38h | 22:23 |
| RST38h | and yes it eats power | 22:23 |
| kirma | the sensor chip supports generating interrupts on events, but dunno how it's handled on the software side... | 22:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | ~20hz will pick up most events | 22:25 |
| kirma | should go and read the source :) | 22:25 |
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| pupnik | http://wiki.mypaint.info/index.php?title=File:Landscape.png nice mypaint work | 22:28 |
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| pupnik | oh for crashanddie too - nice mypaint work http://wiki.mypaint.info/index.php?title=File:Landscape.png | 22:28 |
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| RST38h | cooool | 22:29 |
| pupnik | http://wiki.mypaint.info/images/d/da/FabianSchempp_Castle.png | 22:30 |
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| pupnik | http://pupnik.de/mypaint_cmds1sm.jpg << mypaint kbd commands so you don't have to go to menus... http://pupnik.de/mypaint_0.5.0-1~hildon1_armel.deb | 22:31 |
| pupnik | needs a real maintainer / tweaker for maemo! | 22:31 |
| pupnik | especially for ui optimizations | 22:31 |
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| pupnik | http://pupnik.de/mypaint_quikUI_01anim.gif and something like that for menuless settings | 22:33 |
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| BBNS | pupnik: i really like the Adobe painter software UI on iPhone | 22:35 |
| BBNS | would be great if there is similar kind of overlay for your mypaint. | 22:36 |
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| BBNS | sketchbook mobile for reference: http://www.sampletheweb.com/2009/09/26/review-autodesk-sketchbook-mobile/ | 22:38 |
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| TomaszD | hi. are the official recordings of maesum available somewhere? | 22:40 |
| TomaszD | I mean video. | 22:41 |
| RST38h | Obama declares H1N1 flu a national emergency! | 22:41 |
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| arpwatch | RST38h: http://dsskcorp.com/ibidem/fotographia/misc/panic!at.teh.dsskcorp.gif :) | 22:44 |
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| BBNS | RST38h: can't imagine how much money the vaccine company make. :-/ sometimes i even wonder they have planned it for not enough vaccine. | 22:48 |
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| BBNS | http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/10/24/1843226/Manditory-H1N1-Vaccine-For-NY-Health-Workers-Suspended "The controversial mandatory swine flu vaccine for health care workers in NY has been suspended. While the reason for the suspension was stated as a shortage of the vaccine, a connection was found Showing State Health Commissioner Richard F. Daines, M.D. and/or his wife may directly profit from the sale of the vaccine." | 22:51 |
| BBNS | yikes ... this is disgusting ... | 22:51 |
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| kirma | does somebody know what's the specific acceleratometer used in N900? lis302dl or something newer? | 22:52 |
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| pupnik | ty BBNS i will look at it! | 22:54 |
| * ccooke has finally got irritated with the n900's rootfs filling up to do something about it | 22:54 | |
| SpeedEvil | Soldering on bigger flash? | 22:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ccooke: I recommend rm -rf / | 22:55 |
| ccooke | It may be a temporary measure, but I now have a script I'm finishing testing which will safely relocate packages to /opt (and undo that, if needed) | 22:55 |
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| ccooke | anyone interested? :-) | 22:58 |
| ccooke | once I've actually finsihed testing it, of course :-) | 22:58 |
| qwerty12_N810 | That'd be an interesting idea for an apt hook, actually | 22:59 |
| ccooke | sure | 23:00 |
| ccooke | hmm | 23:00 |
| ccooke | Seems to be working. | 23:00 |
| ccooke | http://pastebin.com/f1355fe1f - It's not vastly clean and it needs more testing, but other people might find it useful and/or want to cannibalise | 23:01 |
| * ccooke is currently moving the nokia-maps UI to /opt | 23:01 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | /dev/null is a better place for it... | 23:02 |
| pupnik | ccooke: which packages are safe | 23:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Thanks for the script | 23:02 |
| pupnik | those packages should be optified upstream, no? | 23:02 |
| ccooke | it's tested and is absolutely fine on my ubuntu box and it seems to be find on the n900, too. | 23:02 |
| pupnik | just want to encourage solving the problems upstream is all | 23:02 |
| ccooke | It should work without problems on n8x0. | 23:02 |
| pupnik | ty | 23:02 |
| pupnik | great work sir | 23:03 |
| pupnik | will you post to t.m.o? | 23:03 |
| ccooke | pupnik: I'd avoid anything that might be needed before the GUI is up | 23:03 |
| ccooke | I can do. Have to try to find my login on there | 23:03 |
| pupnik | ccooke: if package components *can* be moved of rootfs (without breaking bootup), they *should*, no? | 23:04 |
| ccooke | pupnik: not necessarily | 23:04 |
| ccooke | Drifting too far away from upstream can be Bad. | 23:04 |
| ccooke | I see this as a stopgap that will help out until everything's properly optified, and as a useful "damn, I need more space" tool after tha. | 23:05 |
| pupnik | k | 23:07 |
| * pupnik sings praises and cues the wine, dancing and trumpets and unicorns and centaurs | 23:07 | |
| * ccooke backs away slowly | 23:08 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | I can get you dead unicorns and centaurs. Any good? | 23:09 |
| pupnik | yeah avoid the centaur babes when they drink too much wine | 23:09 |
| pupnik | you do not want to mess with that | 23:09 |
| Synergy6 | They get... interesting | 23:10 |
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| wazd | hahaha, I'm rich! | 23:11 |
| wazd | I can even go to the grocery and buy food! | 23:11 |
| wazd | :D | 23:11 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Yet Another Nokia Mystery: Why do they insist on shipping /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51? | 23:11 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | After 9999 failed attempts in trying to get a tab key, by editing that file, I deleted it to see if it was even being read and... it wasn't. | 23:13 |
| ccooke | and... there we go. Every app I archived works perfectly still, including maps. | 23:14 |
| ccooke | and I now have 20M free on my rootfs I didn't have a few minutes ago. | 23:14 |
| BBNS | hmm Canola2 crashed every time i choose theme on N900 ... | 23:15 |
| Synergy6 | Mauku must die. Die hard. | 23:15 |
| pupnik | - \ | / - \ | / roll on ccooke :P | 23:15 |
| ccooke | pupnik: bah! :-) | 23:16 |
| RST38h | reboot to Linux | 23:21 |
| ccooke | (oh: It takes quite a while to run the first time: It's calculating how much space in /usr each package is taking up. That gets cached, so subsequent runs will be much faster. Unless you use the --clean flag :-) | 23:21 |
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| Flyser | BBNS: known bug | 23:26 |
| Flyser | BBNS: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5517 | 23:27 |
| BBNS | Flyser: thanks. do you know how to exit full screen? (i.e. switching to multi-task thumbnail on C2) | 23:27 |
| pupnik | who knows how to recover bricked device | 23:28 |
| * pupnik gives up | 23:29 | |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: it doesnt work? | 23:29 |
| Flyser | BBNS: No idea, haven't got my N900 yet | 23:29 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: Rather: It does fuck all. Delete that file and reboot; you'll notice all your keys still work (unlike the N810, which actually did use its symbols file for the keyboard) | 23:30 |
| Stskeeps | ouch | 23:31 |
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| crashanddie | lol | 23:34 |
| crashanddie | just did a 2.8 mile drift in burnout xD | 23:34 |
| ifreq | hmm thats quite long xD | 23:36 |
| ifreq | what burnout btw? | 23:36 |
| crashanddie | paradise, ps3 | 23:36 |
| ccooke | pupnik: Hmm. Would it actually be useful to post to t.m.o? | 23:36 |
| ifreq | nice | 23:36 |
| crashanddie | ifreq, you got it? | 23:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ccooke: Seen amount of people whining "OMG! TEH ROOTFS IZ FULL"? | 23:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | +the | 23:37 |
| ccooke | qwerty12_N810: Point. | 23:37 |
| ccooke | Post it to General, I guess. | 23:38 |
| ifreq | crashanddie: yeh on x360 | 23:39 |
| ifreq | im huge burnout fan | 23:39 |
| ifreq | started with normal xbox | 23:39 |
| ifreq | :) | 23:39 |
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| crashanddie | ifreq, i hate how you can't play with people from different platforms | 23:42 |
| crashanddie | ifreq, i know so many people who have the same games as i, who are on pc or 360, and i can't play with 'em | 23:42 |
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| pupnik | ccooke: good lord, yes | 23:46 |
| pupnik | take credit, man | 23:46 |
| pupnik | is good enough | 23:46 |
| pupnik | make sh8t happen | 23:46 |
| pupnik | move things | 23:47 |
| pupnik | this is a big lever | 23:47 |
| pupnik | even if it is not the 'rght' way - it shows where we want to go, where we want to be | 23:48 |
| pupnik | another 20MB free on root would solve a lot of crap | 23:48 |
| pupnik | so push it | 23:48 |
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| woglinde | hi | 23:48 |
| pupnik | hi mang | 23:48 |
| woglinde | anyone knows how to fix qemu: Unsupported syscall: 242? | 23:49 |
| Proteous | did you try rebooting? | 23:51 |
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| woglinde | ???? | 23:52 |
| Proteous | how many times did you reboot? | 23:52 |
| woglinde | ????? | 23:52 |
| Proteous | sorry, bad joke | 23:52 |
| woglinde | why should I reboot my host | 23:52 |
| crashanddie | ifreq, got the game wednesday, nearly elite licence | 23:53 |
| Proteous | I love thewebsiteisdown.com | 23:53 |
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| ifreq | crashanddie: hrr :) | 23:55 |
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| woglinde | hm error is somewhere else | 23:56 |
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| BBNS | Flyser: thanks though. =) maybe i should file a request on bugzilla then. | 23:59 |
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