IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-10-21

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lcukaSIMULAtor, what are you using your crate full of n900s for?00:00
aSIMULAturcat scratching post00:00
aSIMULAturthe boxes mainly00:00
lcuksounds good00:00
lcukthe screen is sensitive enough00:00
qwerty12_N810mass flickr uploader00:00
acidjazzoh wait this is the n950 no wonder its 1/2 as thick w/ 1024x768 res and a 5 row kb. oh an umbrella too nice.00:00
lcukand cats claws work well as styluses00:00
absolutehaha00:00
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absolutewhat about a lucky rabbit's foot stylus?00:01
absolutemonkey paw00:01
lcukacidjazz, the n950 should have a bacon grill in the mechanism00:01
johnsqacidjazz: bad, mine will have mind reading :)00:01
lcukjust put a couple of rashers on the expansive keyboard00:01
qwerty12_N810absolute: elephant tusk00:01
lcukit has drainage slots00:01
aSIMULAturhttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2510/3903982484_3476b1f64b_o.jpg00:01
aSIMULAturcat has his own n90000:01
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aSIMULAturto surf web with00:01
javispedrolol.00:01
lcukhaha aSIMULAtor00:01
GeneralAntillesHa00:01
javispedrocat has n900 with thousands of people not.00:01
lcuklooking at pussy pictures?00:02
javispedros/with/but00:02
* lcuk hides00:02
acidjazzlol thats an n9700:02
javispedroaSIMULAtor: but it's the ui "paw friendly" enough?00:02
timeless_mbpso...00:02
timeless_mbpwould someone convert my perl into python for me? :)00:02
crashanddie_aSIMULAtor, is the UI paw friendly enough?00:02
aSIMULAturyz very much so he said he likes meowmo00:02
lcuk:D haha00:02
aSIMULAtursurprisingly that's why i took that photo...he was actually scrolling through a site00:02
crashanddie_lmao00:02
absolutetimeless_mbp: would you like a sandwich for the wait as well?00:03
aSIMULAturwith slight paw movement00:03
absolute:-P00:03
tbfJaffa: telepathy-gruschler shows Facebook contact names in F-Contacts. live. :-D00:03
SpeedEvilhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Crystal-Case-Cover-Pouch-For-Nokia-N900-Maemo-New-UK_W0QQitemZ300357844110QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item45eeb8fc8e00:03
lcukspiral zooming?00:03
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SpeedEvilI guess some people think the n900 will be popular00:03
timeless_mbpabsolute: well, convert it to python and then make it work :)00:03
timeless_mbpno sandwich necessary00:03
lcukSpeedEvil, its a solid platform, why wouldnt they think that00:03
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crashanddie_SpeedEvil, wait, what? If your handset is slide version the cover will not affect the slide function.00:03
javispedroany screen protectors for the n900?00:04
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aSIMULAturthat'd be cool if you could get a polarizing filter screen protector00:04
javispedroit's for the cat.00:04
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crashanddie_My landlord is dancing/snogging with his "flavour of the week" in the middle of the kitchen00:04
crashanddie_I was hungry00:04
aSIMULAturi should file his claws natural stylus00:05
crashanddie_Loud music thumping from the shitty soundsystem00:05
GeneralAntillesMy poor cat is still stuck with an N800.00:05
aSIMULAturmy cat pwned ur cat00:05
absolutesave all your old nail clippings in a jar00:05
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: ... so...00:05
aSIMULAturi'll send it to u abs00:05
crashanddie_absolute, or not00:05
javispedroGeneralAntilles: well, what does he need the hw keyboard for?00:05
timeless_mbpwanna convert my perl to python?00:05
acidjazzyea so i got some maemo quwestions for yall, whast hte primary language that apps can be written in? is it python? java?00:05
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.legacyoflies00:05
Arkenkloafter all, I don't really need that extra display00:05
crashanddie_javispedro, chicks dig a cat who can press the right buttons00:06
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SpeedEviljavispedro: yes - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/stand-2-BLACK-case-cover-for-Nokia-N900-N-900-Protecter_W0QQitemZ260492119586QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item3ca68a4e22 forex00:06
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absoluteacidjazz: no java really... i've mostly heard people mention python and c00:06
ArkenkloI just don't feel like adding it manually in xorg.conf today00:06
GeneralAntillesacidjazz, C.00:06
javispedroSpeedEvil: lol for the useless stand.00:06
acidjazzabsolute: is python a supportable option? would apps in python require like any kind of dependancies?00:06
luke-jracidjazz: Qt, for new apps00:06
luke-jracidjazz: obviously Python apps would depend on Python00:07
acidjazzqt thats like kde right00:07
* timeless_mbp grumbles00:07
mgedmintimeless_mbp: I can try00:07
luke-jracidjazz: KDE is based on Qt00:07
aSIMULAturtimeless,rest and sleep?00:07
acidjazzqt is like enriched c++ ?00:07
luke-jracidjazz: yeah00:07
luke-jracidjazz: Maemo 6 will also be based on Qt00:07
* mgedmin experiments with a python script to calculate size of installed packages, split into filesystem buckets00:07
acidjazzim into that00:07
luke-jracidjazz: Qt apps will also build native on Windows, Linux, and Mac00:08
mgedminhttp://pastey.net/12686400:08
tbfacidjazz: it's more like C with macros and classes00:08
acidjazzsomethign like QApplication app(argc, argv); Qlabel label("hello, world!"); label.show(); return app.exec();00:08
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tbfacidjazz: some people still wait for a C++ port of Qt00:08
luke-jrtbf: Qt is its own language.00:08
crashanddie_tbf, Qt is C++00:08
lcuklol tbf00:08
XisdibikSpeedEvil: really lol at that stand00:08
lcukits c+++00:08
woglindeacidjazz bahah thats outdated today you make a .ui file with designer00:08
crashanddie_tbf, gtfo00:09
tbfcrashanddie_: only for very strange degrees of C++00:09
javispedronah, Qt its is own language.00:09
* lcuk giggles00:09
acidjazzwhat about any supprot for QtScript ECMAScript interpreter00:09
SpeedEvilXisdibik: can it suck more than the integrated?00:09
crashanddie_tbf, oh my bad, I forgot C used classes, objects and inheritance00:09
acidjazzso we could script00:09
crashanddie_tbf, now gtfo00:09
woglindeacidjazz its in qt-webkit00:09
luke-jrwoglinde: Qt has ECMAScript in QtScript too00:09
lcukcrashanddie_, qt IS c++ with additional uses00:09
tbfcrashanddie_: wtf?00:09
crashanddie_lcuk, which is what I said00:10
acidjazzIn particular, the choice of an implementation based on macros has been criticized for its absence of type safety and pollution of the namespace00:10
lcukwhich is what tbf said00:10
acidjazzyea i dont like namespace pollution00:10
luke-jrQt is what C++ was supposed to be? :)\00:10
crashanddie_lcuk, erhm... no... saying "people are waiting for a C++ port of Qt" isn't true00:10
lcukcourse it is00:10
luke-jracidjazz: G++ supports type-safe macros00:10
crashanddie_right00:10
lcukput your tongue in your cheek00:10
tbfacidjazz: very nasty: Qt's foreach macro. several libs i've seen use "foreach" as method name and such00:11
lcukits something a lot of people feel00:11
crashanddie_I'll put my tongue wherever I please00:11
acidjazztbf; everyones always trying to rewrite looping00:11
luke-jracidjazz: also note that those "criticism" apply to Python and ECMAScript too00:11
acidjazzobject looping simplicity00:11
crashanddie_lcuk, oh fuck off, don't use the "a lot of people" card on me00:11
acidjazzluke-jr: well emca theres no real choice00:11
acidjazzcrashanddie_: "ppl are saying"00:11
acidjazzis hwo i like to put it00:11
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lcukfrom wikipedia00:12
lcukQt uses standard C++, but makes extensive use of the C pre-processor to enrich the language.00:12
tbfguess Qt is relatively nice if you stay in their sandbox00:12
lcukits c+++00:12
acidjazzc++++++++++++++++++++++00:12
crashanddie_so we're all right00:12
crashanddie_or all wrong00:12
woglinde*sigh*00:12
lcukand expects you to use the preprocessor00:12
tbfbut as soon as you want to be smart and use additional libs it becomes nasty.00:12
woglindedont talk use it00:12
mgedminwhy every package has its own /opt/$packagename?00:12
* lcuk agrees00:13
luke-jrQt the implementation is done in C++00:13
mgedminI thought the plan was to have /opt/maemo/$packagename?00:13
luke-jrQt the language is not C++00:13
mgedminwell, maybe not _every_ package00:13
woglindetbf nope00:13
johnsqlcuk: the best is it has own script support, where c++ fails.00:13
mgedminbounce and hermes and maemo-backgrounds00:13
woglindetbf just linking off you go00:13
woglindelook at qtnx00:13
lcukjohnsq, not a fault of qt or even the toolkit, but i like the fact games have c++ engines built in00:13
lcuksome games rather00:14
qwerty12_N810mgedmin: Ones using maemo-optify get /opt/maemo, others doing it manually can choose what they please00:14
mgedminsizes of user apps I've got installed: http://pastey.net/12686500:14
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wazd_Can anyone give send me a shot of the phone app in portrait mode?00:14
lcukhas anyone actually tried making a c++ runtime parser within00:14
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woglindelcuk what?00:15
lcukso it can do the sort of introspection and runtime compilation00:15
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wazd_just send, no giving :D00:15
lcukwithout changing language00:15
ali1234lcuk: it's called c#00:15
lcukyes i know the microsoft version is00:15
crashanddie_rootfs                  227.5M    208.7M     14.6M  93% /00:15
lcukoooer00:16
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crashanddie_yup00:16
crashanddie_there's python libs and full c/c++ compilation environment for ya00:16
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lcukbut python isnt exactly a speed horse00:17
Stskeepslcuk: saw realbites post on talk.*?00:17
crashanddie_nope00:17
woglindehm beagleboard or java now00:17
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lcukno Stskeeps link?00:17
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crashanddie_http://www.stskeeps.net00:17
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crashanddie_there you go, Stskeeps link, just for you00:18
Stskeepslcuk, dont have it handy. long story short he made on device compilation chroot00:18
lcukcan i store and move the chroot around as a single file00:18
lcukso i can just unzip, mount, build?00:18
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps, lcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=352348&postcount=1600:18
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ali1234lcuk: you can, but why would you want to?00:19
lcuknew machine00:19
lcukstore the chroot somewhere i need it00:19
lcukcopy on as reqd00:19
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qwerty12_N810localepurge ftw00:20
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lcukStskeeps, does the chroot replace /   or merge with it00:22
Stskeepslcuk: neither, seperate - chroot is a seperate root, you enter it from within your maemo install00:23
Stskeepskinda like qole's debian stuff00:23
timeless_mbplcc?00:23
johnsqlcuk: you must bind dev/proc to the chrooted system and then it is a new /00:23
javispedrolcuk: its the best way to ondevice development, I told you ;P00:23
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lcukits a lot larger than my current apt-get build-essential stuff :P but if i can get packages at the end thats a benefit00:24
crashanddie_who needs packages00:24
qwerty12_N810lcuk: knock off perl-modules00:24
crashanddie_just zip everything in a binary diff00:24
lcukwiki code ftw :)00:24
lcukor just html eventually ;)00:25
qwerty12_N810Anyone who tries packaging in Maemo, with busybox in use, needs their head examined00:25
crashanddie_lcuk, buy a WebOS enabled device00:25
Solarionblah00:25
lcuknahh they are all low res00:25
lcukand wont do the low level stuff i want00:25
crashanddie_it sends sms and receives calls, what more could anyone need for?00:25
lcuki got the recursive jumping sorted :)00:25
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lcukn900 does that00:26
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lcukpresentation app works nicely now00:26
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, remember what I told you about, the thing I'm writing?00:26
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, probably won't be possible, my input doesn't support longs (-)00:27
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, that sucks.00:27
lirimy n810 won't boot up...00:30
lcuk:( liri00:30
lirithe blue bar progress has finished and yet nothing is loaded and it's still showing up the white/blue nokia logo00:30
Proteousmy n810 didn't respect me in the morning00:30
liri(I'm booting from mmc2 (the sd slot) which has always worked until now)00:31
lcukliri, try booting from internal>?00:31
lcuksee if it works00:31
SolarionI could see that causing problems. :)00:31
qwerty12_N810Proteous: I'd feel betrayed, too, if you had bought an N9700:31
johnsqliri: just wait, it can do fsck00:31
lirithat never happend though00:31
liriuhmm00:31
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Proteousmy n810 knew that I was going to see other devices!00:32
lirijohnsq:  but it's like freezing in that state because pushing the power button doesn't get the device to turn off I need to manually take out the battery00:32
qwerty12_N810liri: Tried booting with the charger in?00:32
lirilcuk: remind me how do I trigger the boot loader when it firsts boot off00:32
liriqwerty12_N810: yes, no change. I actually just now finished charging it00:33
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qwerty12_N810(I mean turning it fully off and shoving the charger in so it turns on as a result of that)00:33
johnsqliri: okay, I noticed that after the bar, it sometimes take some time, i thinkt it does fsck here00:33
lcukliri, i dunno00:33
lcukbut if you are booting from mmc200:33
lcukyou should still have the original available00:33
liriqwerty12_N810: thats what I did, I turned it fully off then inserted the charger, it started charging it and now finished.00:34
Proteousfsck the orig00:34
w00ti thought i'd walked into something quite rude for a moment00:34
w00tthen i realised the channel name00:34
liriright, I haven't thought about fsck it might indeed be doing that although that's a bit wierd00:34
lirihow do I invoke the boot loader when it's turned on to boot from internal?00:34
qwerty12_N810liri: OK. Just asking as booting with the charger in makes it start in runlevel 5.00:34
Proteoushold down F200:35
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liriProteous: are you always that funny?00:35
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Proteousheh00:36
liriqwerty12_N810: ahh ok00:36
Proteousonly to some...00:36
liriqwerty12_N810: I'll wait a while to see if it's fsck running or not00:36
Proteousthe rest just have me on ignore00:36
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crashanddie_Proteous, I'm surprised00:38
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ProteousI suprise myself sometimes, usualy when looking in a mirror00:40
pupnik___i need someonen with contacts in china to mfgr a new product00:41
luke-jrpupnik___: you have funding? O.O00:42
pupnik___dev is easypie00:42
luke-jr?00:42
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pupnik___need an EE to do some bridge work00:43
pupnik___some case mfgr, then i can hawk to distribution frieends00:43
pupnik___i can push it to the big ones, whatever are around00:43
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pupnik___since i used to work in the biz00:43
pupnik___need a money man though.  always hard to find reeal business talent00:44
SpeedEvilWhat sort of device?00:44
pupnik___niche product00:44
pupnik___geek thing, low investment00:44
SpeedEvilA USB heated mug, or a hypercube cluster of xeons?00:44
GeneralAntillesDid somebody kill Google?00:45
crashanddie_pupnik___, what do you need?00:45
pupnik___someone to help me do thebiz plan00:45
pupnik___and nix it if something cant wok00:45
pupnik___work00:46
pupnik___damn chinese wireless kbd00:46
SpeedEvil1) Collect underpants00:46
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pupnik___when can we get n900 imamge?00:46
VDVsx_wow, we'll have custom irc cloaks, thanks GeneralAntilles ;)00:47
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GeneralAntillesVDVsx, just in time for you bastards to get them. :(00:49
javispedrohey, i'm a bastard. when I'm getting mine?00:50
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, 500 karma points. :P00:50
GeneralAntillesSeriously, who killed Google?00:50
rangeOh, sorry.00:50
javispedroWORKSFORME.00:50
* qwerty12_N810 whistles and walks away00:50
SpeedEvilWORKSFORME00:51
* GeneralAntilles mutters evil things about Comcast.00:51
luke-jrpupnik___: if it's my niche, I'd be glad to do development on it00:51
SpeedEvilNatures niche?00:51
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ali1234is there a bug for the fact that it is currently impossible to type "~"?00:54
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ifreqali1234: why not?00:54
ali1234ifreq: press alt+sym, press "~", nothing happens00:55
mgedminali1234: it's possible, but hard00:55
ali1234nothing on the third row works00:55
mgedminit's a dead_tilde00:55
mgedminpress ~ then press space00:55
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mgedminor press any of the third row keys then press any letter00:55
ali1234so it's a known bug then i assume, if there's work arounds?00:55
mgedminit's not a bug, it's a (mis)feature00:55
ali1234er00:55
ali1234it's a bug00:55
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mgedmin"impossible" is patently false00:56
mgedminI think there's a bug about the nondiscoverability of the function of the third row of symbols, yes00:56
GeneralAntillesIt's not a bug, it's a feature.00:56
ali1234there's no way you can convince me that is a feature00:56
ali1234why does only the third row do it, and not the others?00:56
GeneralAntillesIt allows you to input letters.00:56
ali1234hmm so it does00:56
GeneralAntillesBecause Nokia has occasional extreme bouts of retardation as far as usability goes.00:57
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ali1234that's kind of cool actually00:57
ali1234but it needs to be clearly labelled00:57
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, I propose that members < 18 years old aren't eligible for the cloaks, hihiihih00:57
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, ^^00:57
ali1234i dont think i've ever typed an accented character before00:57
rangeCan't you choose between dead and none-dead?00:57
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: Asshat :p00:57
rangenon-00:58
javispedroyou evil karma whores and cloack whores.00:58
* qwerty12_N810 gives javispedro the "Talk Spamming Kit": GoGoGo00:59
* javispedro will now bet all his karma in karma betting thread00:59
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VDVsxthere's a thread for that ? lol01:00
javispedroyes. and it's not even closed for some weird reason!01:00
javispedroprobably a universe-destroying paradox.01:00
javispedrohttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3312501:00
javispedroplace your bets, gentleman!01:00
lcuki think the moderators who can close the thread are just leaving it there to see how the thanks payout is gonna come about01:01
VDVsxOMG01:02
GeneralAntillesI'm disappointed in your lack of informedness, VDVsx.01:02
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, I've a life :)01:02
javispedroyour lack of faith in tmo's informedness is disturbing.01:02
qwerty12_N810maemo.org/council/TheUninformedOne/VDVsx01:02
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GeneralAntillesVDVsx, pish tosh.01:03
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, you have nothing! :P01:03
javispedroouch, he's in the council now, i forgot.01:03
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* javispedro hides01:03
lcukGeneralAntilles, he has YOU to tell him what happened01:03
lcukwhy does he need to watch anything else01:03
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, he's a chair, that's not what you do with chairs. :D01:03
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, are you trying to imply we should stack VDVsx on you?01:04
* VDVsx requests a bullying job for tomorrow. address;qwerty12_N810's school01:04
b-man17lol01:04
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qwerty12_N810VDVsx: Good luck with that: I'm no longer in school :p01:05
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* VDVsx sends some Real Madrid merchandising to javispedro 01:05
lirihow long could that fsck run for?01:06
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: rofl01:06
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* javispedro carefully hides it taking care no one watches him01:06
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VDVsxqwerty12_N810, school = colleague , university, etc...01:07
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* lcuk shivers01:12
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GeneralAntillescosmo, ping?01:16
b-man17~coin01:17
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, coin is flipped... heads or tails?01:17
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b-man17~heads01:18
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b-man17hmm.01:18
javispedro~flip01:18
* infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... tails!01:18
b-man17~flip01:19
* infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... oshi--it's the side!01:19
b-man17lol01:19
Corsac~karma Corsac01:19
infobotcorsac has karma of 101:19
Corsacwoouh01:19
b-man17xD01:19
Mouseyoh there is an infobot in here01:19
hardaker~karma infobot01:19
infobotinfobot has karma of 301:19
Mouseyinfobot++01:20
javispedro~rot13 uryyb01:20
infobothello01:20
b-man17~karma GeneralAntilles01:20
infobotgeneralantilles has karma of 101:20
javispedro~rot13 Fgbc nohfvat zr, lbh rivy xnezn juberf.01:21
infobotStop abusing me, you evil karma whores.01:21
b-man17lol01:21
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Xisdibik~karma Xisdibik01:21
infobotxisdibik has neutral karma01:21
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qwerty12_N810just for that, infobot:01:21
qwerty12_N810~infobot++01:22
Xisdibikb-man17: i think your program is going to be one of the first i install once i get my n900... whever that will be.... (next week? next month? next year? next decade? lol)01:22
javispedrobet your tmo karma already?01:22
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lcuk~n90001:25
infobotn900 is, like, OMAP3430, HD camera, HSPA, Maemo 5 (Fremantle), probably Summer 2009 (or later)01:25
lbthas anyone used modest against cyrus imap?01:25
Solarioninfobot: get up-to-date, man.01:25
* infobot fetches up-to-date, man.01:25
lcuklol01:25
* GAN900 decides that the Wii lanyard doesn't work.01:25
b-man17Xisdibik: it´l get done when it gets done ;)01:25
Solarionheh01:25
b-man17Xisdibik: (after i´m done with Bootsplash Manager)01:26
VDVsxGAN900, broke you tv ?01:26
VDVsx*your01:26
b-man17~slap himself silly01:26
* infobot slaps himself silly, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!01:26
Solarionenuff with teh botbuse01:26
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javispedro~slashdot01:28
infobotSlashdot Headlines (6 of 15): NVIDIA Driver Developer Discusses Linux Graphics ;; AT&amp;T Suggests To 300K Employees To Lobby the FCC ;; Apple Blurs the Server Line With Mac Mini Server ;; The Kindle Killer Arrives ;; Google Envisions 10 Million Servers ;; How Do You Manage Dev/Test/Production Environments?.01:28
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Xisdibikb-man17: haha, would be funny if they were waiting to give me my phone until your bootsplash manager was done01:29
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GeneralAntillesVDVsx, on the N900. ;)01:30
b-man17Xisdibik: indeed xD01:31
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, oh, be careful , lol01:31
GeneralAntillesToo big01:31
GeneralAntillesLanyard hole is on the wrong damn end.01:31
Xisdibikb-man17: you really did make my day with that program (the other day),  cant wait to put up some cool clip for my bootsplash :D01:31
b-man17:)01:32
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lcukGeneralAntilles, theres a lanyard clip on the back of the device01:33
lcukjust flip it out near the camera bezel01:33
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ifreqa cord used with artillery01:34
ifreqinteresting word lcuk :P01:34
b-man17Xisdibik: it´s been quite a learning experience :)01:35
b-man17.....almost like when i had to learn badh to create cdeb2 xD01:36
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b-man17*bash01:36
lcukifreq, which word?01:37
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ifreqlcuk: lanyard01:39
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ifreqat least my dictionary told that one of the meaning is what i described earlier :P01:40
lcukahh01:41
GeneralAntillesThis is the one you want: http://www.cym.com.sg/images/Lanyard%20With%20Detachable%20Buckle.jpg01:42
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zerojaycrashanddie_: I love you.01:43
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crashanddie_zerojay, :)01:44
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crashanddie_who are the moderators on TMO?01:46
crashanddie_I'd like them to close the "N900 UK Networks" thread01:46
crashanddie_it's become a competition and moanfest of who managed to get a discounted n900 or not01:47
zerojaystgadsby or whatever his name is... lol... timsamoff and Reggie, I think.01:47
crashanddie_sjgadsby01:47
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zerojayEvery time I see his name, it makes me think I might be dyslexic. :P01:47
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zerojay...if that was even... er... spelled right.01:48
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Xisdibiknac uoy daer siht   zerojay01:49
crashanddie_zerojay puts the sexy in dyslexic01:49
zerojayXisdibik: WHAT DID YOU CALL ME?!? ;)01:49
pupnik___need toestimate target market luke-jr01:49
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* VDVsx is dyslexic :(01:50
crashanddie_or he could be insulting some guy called "Nac"01:50
crashanddie_"Nac you dear shit"01:50
zerojayhaha.01:50
Xisdibikzerojay: it was a test  "can you read this"  backwards,  if you could read it your dyslexic ;)01:50
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zerojayXisdibik: lol. Pretty easy to read it anyways. ;)01:50
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Xisdibiksounds dyslexic to me ;)01:51
crashanddie_Xisdibik, that's not a test01:51
Xisdibikbut ill let it slide, since you have a n900 ;(01:51
Xisdibikyou just want it to be me insulting Nac :P which it never will be ;)01:52
crashanddie_dyslexic people have an advantage01:52
crashanddie_they always win at scrabble01:52
crashanddie_(or at least they would if we let them play)01:52
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zerojayFuck Nac. What a dick.01:53
Xisdibiklol01:53
* timeless_mbp sighs01:54
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* timeless_mbp needs to fix package names01:54
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crashanddie_\r/com.nokia.*/\s/org.maemo/01:55
pupnik___which preaid data card to choose for n900 germany - fonic? (but you pay 60 euro for the usb stick)01:55
pupnik___want daily data simcard withoutu hardwarde01:56
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crashanddie_and? and? and?01:58
crashanddie_of course not, another item on the agenda!01:58
* crashanddie_ wants to go to bed01:58
lbtlcuk --->> http://www.flickr.com/photos/96141280@N00/4030555562/01:59
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lcukthanks lbt :)02:02
lcukjust what i always wanted02:02
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lcukbeer goggles? http://www.flickr.com/photos/96141280@N00/4030554586/in/set-72157622628269368/02:02
lbtI thought it caught you rather well02:02
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lcukwasnt as good as the samppa picture02:03
lcukbut i had the grace to let him personally delete that one02:03
lcukbefore anyone saw it :)02:03
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mgedminomgwtfbbq: my tablet ran OOM *again*02:04
mgedminapps running: xterm02:04
lcuklol02:04
lcuklots of scrollback02:04
mgedminnon-gui apps running: sshd (with socks proxy), dnsmasq02:04
lcuktracker?02:04
mgedminstatusbar applets: load-applet, brightness-applet, pc-connectivity applet02:04
lcukindexing?02:04
mgedminOOM killer killed browserd02:05
mgedminanother browserd02:05
mgedminthen hildon-thumbnai, hildon-status-m and hildon-desktop02:05
mgedminthen I could use it again for a brief while02:05
mgedminbut when I tried to reconnect to the net (i.e. invoke the connections menu), the whole UI froze hard02:05
mgedminpower button barely worked after four attempts02:06
lcuk:(02:06
mgedmin*after* the oom killer I saw <200 megs of ram used and <100 megs swap used02:06
crashanddie_I'm off to bed02:06
crashanddie_take care people02:06
mgedminwhy freeze soon after *that*?02:06
mgedminokay, disabling facebook widget, will see if things get better or not02:06
mgedmintimeless_mbp: if you're alive, there's code that WORKSONMYMACHINE here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mgedmin/+junk/timeless-translations/files02:07
timeless_mbpi'm alive02:07
timeless_mbpmgedmin: um02:08
zerojayAnyone out there mind translating a few simple strings into your native language, whatever it is? Just wanna add translations to my packages.02:08
timeless_mbpi'm betting that line 36 fails miserably02:09
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timeless_mbpzenity is passed a large number of arguments with random quotation characters and things02:09
timeless_mbpusing the array form meant that i could safely not worry about it02:09
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mgedmintimeless_mbp: if it were up to me, I'd work on caching the indexes on disk next02:11
mgedminuh, bit of a bug there, it crashes after loading locale data02:11
timeless_mbpheh02:11
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mgedminfix pushed02:13
mgedminwell, being pushed02:13
mgedminpushed02:13
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mgedminworks for me now on the n90002:16
mgedmindrops my ssh connection for some reason when I run translations.py from an xterm02:16
mgedminhigh cpu usage = ssh times out? no clue02:17
mgedminanyway, sleep time now02:17
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timeless_mbpooh, script works02:21
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timeless_mbpok, memoserv: mgedmin, your version, advanced options, browse, ar, apt, =>02:24
timeless_mbp"This option is not available. Please see --help for all possible usages.02:24
till-does the default email-client on maemo 4 support imap-folders?02:25
timeless_mbpselecting gconf-editor results in a complete failure02:25
timeless_mbptill-: um, i don't think maemo 4 was monolithic wrt default email client02:25
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timeless_mbpfrom memory it changes from osso-mail to modest-tinymail02:25
till-yes i think its modest02:26
timeless_mbps/changes/changed/02:26
infobottimeless_mbp meant: from memory it changed from osso-mail to modest-tinymail02:26
timeless_mbpyou probably mean diablo (maemo4.1)02:26
till-but i can't find an option for subscribing folders02:26
timeless_mbpthere isn't one :)02:26
till-well ... great02:26
timeless_mbpbut supposedly you can configure mail folders02:26
till-so i'll keep using claws mail02:26
timeless_mbpand whichever are subscribed may show up02:26
till-you mean add a new folder with the same name as one existing on the server?02:27
timeless_mbpnot sure02:28
timeless_mbpsomeone described doing this for modest in fremantle02:28
till-well, i will try02:28
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till-ty02:28
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* lcuk waves at till- \o02:29
lcukevening02:29
* SpeedEvil stabs the company formerly known as British Telecom.02:32
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ali1234cool. my internet goes down. n900 gets me online with ubuntu with no hacks and no complicated set up. i'm impressed.02:35
ali1234all i had to do was plug in on usb and select it in network manager02:35
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SpeedEvilyou mean tethering?02:36
ali1234yeah02:36
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ali1234it never works right with any other phone i've tried02:36
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zerojayhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=353318#post353318 - If anyone can help me out, post to the thread.02:37
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qwerty12_N810zerojay: Out of curiosity, living in Quebec, do you speak French?02:39
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ali12343G is almost as fast as my ADSL :)02:40
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SpeedEvilzerojay: I only spak ytpo02:41
penguinbaitI thought you hate french qwerty02:41
wiretappedali1234: awesome02:42
wiretappedDUN?02:42
ali1234yes, DUN02:42
wiretappeddoes it do it over bluetooth too?02:42
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ali1234i don't think so02:42
ali1234not that i can find anyway02:42
wiretappedaw :(02:42
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ali1234should be easy to add though02:42
ali1234although for bluetooth, NAP profile is way better02:42
wiretappedI plan to setup PAN02:42
wiretappedPAN, NAP, whatever02:43
wiretappedthe good one :)02:43
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ali1234NAP = network access point (runs over PAN)02:43
wiretappedPANAP02:43
ali1234not so well supported in ubuntu, unless you install blueman02:43
wiretappedoh.02:43
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ali1234blueman is great btw, get it if you use bluetooth on ubuntu, really02:44
wiretappedi've only ever done it in OS2007 with debian etch02:44
ali1234it makes bluetooth actually useful02:44
wiretappedit was a big pain02:44
wiretappedbut was awesome when it finally worked02:44
wiretappedwow, blueman does indeed look great02:45
wiretappedthanks02:45
ali1234NAP profile probably needs a kernel with NAT support02:45
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wiretappedyeah, that or a SOCKS proxy02:46
ali1234for blueman, use the PPA on jaunty, or it's in the repos on karmic02:46
tbfif the mozilla guys would just learn to create reusable code :-(02:46
wiretappedhopefully it won't be too hard to do NAT though.02:46
SpeedEvilhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/timsamoff/4016993161/ HDR=shiny02:46
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tbflooking at their universal charset detector (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/intl/chardet.html) and don't know how to use it from a regular app02:46
wiretappedwait, are you not doing NAT with your DUN setup?02:47
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ali1234wiretapped: well i could turn it on on my desktop. but on pc suite mode you just get a usb serial port to do dial up networking on02:48
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timeless_mbphrm02:48
ali1234but since this is just temporary until my ISP gets it's act together...02:48
wiretappedi don't follow. your PC has an RFC1918 IP, right? So...02:48
wiretappedwhere is the NAT happening?02:48
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ali1234the phone is just acting as a modem02:49
wiretappedare you getting an external IP through DUN?!02:49
zerojayqwerty12_N810: I do speak French but it's a second language. English is my first.02:49
ali1234no, because t-mobile does not give external IPs02:49
wiretappedah02:49
ali1234but the PC gets the IP that the phone would usually get02:49
wiretappedso tmobile is doing the NAT.02:49
qwerty12_N810zerojay: Ah :)02:50
ali1234right02:50
wiretappedright.02:50
zerojayWatchin' hockey...02:50
SpeedEvilOw - my eyes.02:50
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SpeedEvilI was looking for n900 images. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9601500@N08/3547127140/ (not especially worksafe)02:51
ali1234if i wanted i could set networkmanager to share the connection on my eth0, turn off my router, and wait for all my other machines to pick up the new IP from my machine's DHCP server, and it would work02:51
ali1234but since it's temporary i'm not going to try it :)02:52
SpeedEvilI can't seem to set flickr to search for n90002:52
qwerty12_N810SpeedEvil: N900 panoramic background!02:52
ali1234SpeedEvil: you had to share :(02:53
penguinbaitadmit it qwerty12_N810, you were turned on when you saw that half naked midget02:55
SpeedEvilSorry :)02:55
penguinbaithah02:55
qwerty12_N810penguinbait: Only because I thought it was you02:55
penguinbaitheh02:55
penguinbaitseriously though, lcuk at his first hooters02:56
lcukWhere the heck is the "[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="7"]FINISH HIM![/SIZE][/COLOR]" button?02:56
lcukwas what i was just posting02:56
penguinbaitheh02:56
nwidgerso... where are the free n900 handouts? :D02:57
timeless_mbpnwidger: a few weeks ago?02:57
nwidger:(02:57
qwerty12_N810One's here02:57
penguinbaitdon't know but if you see a line forming somewhere, let me know02:57
lcuknwidger, you had to be there02:57
timeless_mbplcuk++02:57
nwidgerwhere?02:57
penguinbaitso true02:57
timeless_mbpAMS02:57
penguinbaitAmsterdam02:57
lcukand they werent free handouts02:57
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nwidgerno?02:58
lcukqwerty12_N810, it happened again02:58
Macerhm02:59
SpeedEvil np: Grandmaster Flash - n900 lines.03:00
penguinbaitanyone tried openarena on n900 yet?03:00
timeless_mbpthey were long term loans03:01
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: ok, i was wrong about the args stuff. pythonic arrays = magic03:08
timeless_mbphttp://bugs.python.org/issue144806003:08
timeless_mbpseems to be biting me03:08
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timeless_mbpsp3000: debian bug tracking rocks: http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-terminal/commit/?id=30f29e7d8e1b67c40cd18a7155ba30c4382692d503:12
timeless_mbpinstead of making sure there was a bug for the core problem03:13
timeless_mbpthey worked around it03:13
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sp3000timeless_mbp: hmm when you mentioned it I was thinking "it probably breaks on some corner case"03:22
* sp3000 wins!03:22
timeless_mbpthere's a reason i prefer to use msgunfmt03:22
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timeless_mbphttp://mail.python.org/pipermail/i18n-sig/2003-March/001546.html03:23
timeless_mbpsp3000: it seems like gettext.py sucks :)03:24
sp3000well now you fell into 200303:24
timeless_mbpok03:24
timeless_mbpso we prefer the 2007 unfixed bug?03:24
sp3000fixed bugs are boring :>03:25
timeless_mbphow do i "patch" my gettext.py?03:25
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timeless_mbphttp://bugs.python.org/issue1475523 ?!03:28
timeless_mbpso basically the python people don't care about fixing bugs03:28
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wiretappedtimeless_mbp: what do you mean 'how do i "patch"'?03:29
timeless_mbpwiretapped: well... pretend i'm an end user on a computer (i.e. i am not root)03:29
timeless_mbpand pretend my admin has installed python (my admin is clearly an idiot)03:30
wiretappedah03:30
timeless_mbpthat means i have a /usr/lib/python2.6/gettext.py03:30
timeless_mbpwhich is buggy03:30
wiretappedyeah i don't know how to do that off the top of my head, but it is certainly possible :)03:30
timeless_mbpand i'd like to ....03:30
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wiretappedyou have to do your build somewhere without root and without a cooperative admin?03:31
timeless_mbpi'd rather not build python :)03:31
sp3000something like, make a local install of hg and look at what it's doing03:31
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wiretappedI think you can set PYTHONPATH03:31
ali1234if /usr/lib/python2.6/gettext.py is really python, you can just edit it03:32
wiretappedali1234: he's not root.03:32
wiretappedbut PYTHONPATH should work, assuming you can slip it in to python's env during your build somehow :)03:33
lcukarghhh03:33
lcukshouldnt have messed with my clock03:33
lcukwhat time is it (if you are in the uk)03:33
ali1234time to install ntpd?03:34
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sp3000it seems to be close enough03:34
lcukali1234, i removed the cursed thing03:34
wiretappedlcuk: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=time+in+london03:34
wiretapped(:sorry:)03:35
timeless_mbpsp3000: the patch fixes 1 out of 3 nearly identical errors :)03:35
lcukwiretapped, ive just been on a website which showed me computer time, i wouldv prefered human interaction :P03:35
lcukthx tho03:36
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sp3000lcuk: just ctcp time random unsuspecting people03:37
sp3000like I do!03:37
lcukno, windows and linux ssh timestamps and hours changing screws up too often03:37
lcukbecause the two machines dont change right times and they have fights about +- hour changes03:38
samueldrouch, I can't flash my n800 (Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy)03:38
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wiretappedlcuk: http://www.isitbeeroclock.com/03:38
samueldreven as root03:38
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samueldr(using the flasher on linux)03:38
lcuksamueldr, remove the bettery03:38
lcukreboot computer03:38
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lcukplug wire in with totally deactive device with no battery03:39
lcukwait until flasher says "waiting.."03:39
lcukthen plug battery in03:39
samueldralready tried ;__;03:39
lcukdifferent port then03:39
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samueldralmost did them all (no hub)03:39
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samueldrit must be some udev rules banging on the device before the flasher can03:40
samueldr(just thought about that)03:40
samueldrOct 20 20:42:07 HOMER load-modules.sh: 'usb:v0421p0105d0031dc02dsc00dp00ic02isc08ip00' is not a valid module or alias name03:41
samueldrthis doesn't seem right...03:42
ali1234no, that's correct03:42
ali1234those are the usb IDs and endpoints03:43
samueldrok03:43
ali1234and there's no module matching it03:43
samueldrgood to know03:43
ali1234because there's no driver for it in flashing mode03:43
ali1234that's why you use libusb03:43
samueldrthanks03:43
samueldrgood to know03:43
samueldr(I thought my archlinux box could have some weird config)03:43
samueldr(never flashed with it)03:43
ali1234well, it could03:43
samueldrcrw-rw-r-- 1 root vboxusers 189, 11 oct 20 20:42 /dev/bus/usb/001/01203:44
samueldrroot is able to access the device03:45
samueldr(checked with lsusb)03:45
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* timeless_mbp sighs03:46
timeless_mbpof course...03:46
timeless_mbpmsgunfmt complains about invalid multibyte sequences03:46
timeless_mbpso it's not like i have any tools that actually work :)03:46
lcukgahhh timeless03:47
lcukyou are havin big probs with this recently!03:47
lcukwhat did you change lol03:47
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timeless_mbpwell, mgedgmin converted my code from perl to python03:48
timeless_mbpso instead of using a slightly buggy commandline tool to read mo files03:49
timeless_mbpi'm using a very brittle and buggy python module03:49
timeless_mbpbut at least it's threaded03:49
timeless_mbpi think03:49
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lcukheh03:49
timeless_mbp(not at all sure about that part)03:49
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timeless_mbpin fact03:49
timeless_mbpi don't think it is03:49
samueldrwell, gonna try to reboot and flash with windows03:49
timeless_mbpwhich basically means i have a python version of my original script03:49
lcukvariety!03:50
lcukstart a rosetta stone version of your translation management system!03:50
lcuktranslate it into every language03:50
tbfbah. seems microb is built without universalchardet :-(03:51
timeless_mbptbf: it turned out to not really be worth much03:52
timeless_mbpw/ time, more modern web pages are less likely to have broken charsets03:52
tbftimeless_mbp: well. yes.03:53
timeless_mbpplus when we were deciding what to include, we didn't have font coverage for anything interesting anyway03:53
timeless_mbp(that's circa maemo3 fwiw)03:53
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tbftimeless_mbp: well, might be useless for the browser. but other apps could have some use for it ;-)03:56
tbftimeless_mbp: guess it's not quite trivial to build this piece separately?03:56
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samueldrit flashed with windows04:11
Arkenklowhy would it flash itself with windows?04:12
Arkenklowindows sucks04:12
code177hey guys04:13
code177sooo.. im following thp04:13
code177s thp's info on http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs_unstable/tutorial/html/sec-TouchSelector.html04:13
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code177er04:13
code177oh right, no copy paste in vmware04:13
code177http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=352471&postcount=5 this one04:14
Arkenklogood for you it didn't contain your nasty porn04:14
code177damn right04:14
code177anyhow04:14
code177there's a step im missing04:14
Arkenklothat could have emotionally scarred us all for a long while04:14
Arkenkloanyway, I should go to bed; I think I'm funny04:15
code177which is where the output is changed from <span font_desc="Nokia Sans 18" foreground="<GdkColor at 0x9xx04:15
code177into text with formatting04:15
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lcukmornin fiferboy04:58
fiferboyevening lcuk04:59
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lcuki did a video showing what i meant to show at the summit..04:59
lcukie my presentation04:59
lcuktheres actually a few - but this one shows the engine really well http://www.youtube.com/user/lcukmaemo#p/a/u/2/7hGUKICDeok05:00
lcukand a qucik flick through the presentation ;)05:00
fiferboylcuk - cool, I will check that out05:00
lcukhows you goin05:00
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fiferboypretty good.  relaxing with the wife05:01
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, put down the tablet. :P05:01
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fiferboy:D05:02
lcuklol05:03
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lcukfiferwife_n900, tell him to turn it off05:05
fiferboy_n900it is better than lardwife...05:07
zerojayN900lol05:07
lcuklol05:07
zerojayN900owned05:07
lcukits ok, i have liqwife :)05:08
fiferboy_n900lol05:08
fiferboy_n900Erin thinks fiferwife is cute05:10
lcukcool, tell erin to shush for a minute and phone your wife ;)05:11
GeneralAntillesShouldn't that be Personal Wife?05:11
lcuklol05:12
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fiferboy_n900better than Large Statusbar Wife...05:12
lcukeither way, make sure shes been optified05:13
GeneralAntillesHaha05:13
GeneralAntillesfiferboy_n900, I'm just glad Nokia finally decided to ship one by default. *g*05:13
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fiferboy_n900Yes.  I hear harmattan will have a built-in Bird List app05:16
fiferboy_n900:)05:16
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lcuksummit n900 recipients, report in     http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3320505:25
zerojayfiferboy_n900: My apps bring all the birds to the yard...05:26
fiferboy_n900zerojay - video game wallpapers or adblock?05:28
zerojayfiferboy_n900: I didn't exactly mean MINE... but.. haha.05:28
fiferboy_n900:)05:28
|Rthat libqbase stuff is amazing05:28
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* lcuk takes a bow05:28
zerojayAny of our Russian, French, Spanish or Italian friends awake?05:29
|Rkind of late hehe05:29
lcuk|R, late for what05:29
zerojaylol.. never too late.05:29
zerojayOften see RST38h or wazd_ awake about now.05:30
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|Rlcuk : no, not the lib, for europeans :)05:30
|Rlcuk : well, i guess you're in the UK but... ;)05:30
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lcukim just making something :)05:30
lcukand noticed a crapola bug05:30
|RThat libqbase stuff is related to harmattan UI or just lots of personal fun?05:31
lcukliqbase *05:31
lcukwell liqbase has been hacked on by me for the last 18months05:31
lcukit works on 81005:31
|Roh ok :)05:32
zerojayIf it had anything to do with Harmattan, he'd probably already be working for Nokia.05:32
|Rhehe05:32
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zerojayBecause if he wasn't - and I'm someone that doesn't even use or understand liq* - I would be pissed.05:33
lcukthe comparisons with harmattan are new tho05:33
|R:)05:33
lcukwhy zero05:33
lcukif nokia wanted to use my toy engine to make it, they are just as free as you or anyone else05:34
lcukits open source05:34
zerojaylcuk: Because I think your hard work, whether I understand/use it or not personally, should be rewarded if it was going to be used in Harmattan.05:34
lcukthe engine can be tailored to anything05:34
lcukive got my own thoughts on what i want to do with it05:34
|Rbtw, is imagemagick ported to to maemo5 extra?05:34
zerojayAnd yes, I know it's open and anyone can do whatever they want... but it just would make sense if they would hire you if they did.05:35
|Rs/to to/to/05:35
infobot|R meant: btw, is imagemagick ported to maemo5 extra?05:35
zerojayJR: I haven't seen it there yet, no.05:35
|Rok05:35
|RGuess i'll have to package it when i get my n900 somewhere around 2012 :P05:36
|R(yes yes, within 2 weeks right? ;)05:36
lcukzerojay, if i worked for nokia, it would not be on liqbase itself.05:37
zerojaylcuk: Well, that would be up to them, wouldn't it? :)05:38
lcuknot like you are thinking anyway05:38
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* lcuk would love to get involved in the camera/direct imaging side of things :)05:39
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zerojaybs_BS (Bosnian, as spoken in Bahamas) <-- WHA? People in the Bahamas speak... Bosnian? wtf.06:03
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|Rzerojay: you now have a french translation06:06
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zerojayThanks. :)06:07
zerojayCan I get some Suomi pride up in this? WHERE YOU AT, .fi?!? - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3320006:08
|Ruhm 2 sec, correcting something ;)06:08
zerojayNo prob.06:08
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|Rok fixed06:12
|Rif you want to make a fr(qc) one use this one and if you want an fr(fr) one use s/Fureteur/Navigateur/g06:12
|Rthough, they will get it anyway ;)06:13
zerojayYeah, sounds right to me.06:13
GeneralAntillesIf anybody needs an Extras product, feel free to poke me.06:17
GeneralAntillesFree bug with every new product! ;)06:17
|Rhaha :)06:17
GeneralAntillesHey, ian_at_synth, by the way.06:17
ian_at_synthhi all06:17
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zerojayGeneralAntilles: Dunno if my packages would apply... lol06:18
|Ruhm have they actually removed vi from busybox?06:18
GeneralAntilles|R, not on the device.06:19
|Rah ok, someone said it didn't work on the vim/emacs thread06:19
GeneralAntilles|R, dunno about the SDK.06:19
Firebirdwhat the heck is maemoproject/majorcomplete06:19
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|RFirebird : an awkward contest?06:20
|R(which hopefully doesn't check when the input was made as long as the time sent is right :P)06:20
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Firebirdits not announced anywhere and frankly looks a bit sketchy06:21
|RMaybe it's Android/WinMo trying to find who to kill06:21
|Ror somethin... ;)06:21
zerojayHeh... got someone looking at getting around the PS3 controller limitation which only allows pairing over USB. :)06:26
GeneralAntilleszerojay, it wouldn't. There's no need to be so self-centered. :D06:26
GeneralAntilleszerojay, oooh.06:26
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zerojayGeneralAntilles: Huh?06:26
zerojayOh. lol06:26
GeneralAntillesMan that is one ugly bastard: http://i.afterdawn.com/storage/pictures/news/normal_MotorolaDroid-4.jpg06:28
|Rbut but ... it has gold on the button!06:28
|R:P06:28
zerojayEw, what is that, a d-pad or an exposed piece of copper?06:29
GeneralAntillesLooks like it's the place to electrocute yourself for buying a Motorola Android phone from Verizon.06:29
|Ras a person raised on an 8-bit NES, i demend every D-Pad to be on the left! ;)06:29
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GeneralAntillesThat keyboard looks awful.06:29
|Rbut they have anti iPhone ads, so people like it, cause... it's "so counter culture" yo ;)06:30
|Rhaha06:30
GeneralAntillesThe key symbols look awful.06:30
zerojayThey pissed away a pretty good marketing video on that.06:31
GeneralAntillesIt's like those horrifying WinXP MIDs.06:31
GeneralAntillesAt least Nokia can put pretty characters on their keyboards.06:31
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GeneralAntillesThat looks like something out of the mid-90s.06:31
lcuklooks pretty clean to me, wonder how the keyboard feels06:32
lcukthey have space for a blank key!06:33
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GeneralAntillesThere's no accounting for taste. . . .06:37
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lcuklol GeneralAntilles06:38
lcuki know i have no style sense06:38
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|REveryone is suggesting portrait mode for apps on the brainstorm list... but ... is the default picture viewer even able to rotate images !?07:01
lcukyeah07:01
|Rgood :)07:02
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|RWas the kernel patched in maemo 5 for the < 2.6.30.2 kernel root exploit on every platform?07:58
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RST38hHmmm...Does Droid really show the eye of Sauron on startup? Whose idea that was?08:08
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thuxmorning08:18
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dmj7261How fast are file transfers to the n900?08:20
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RST38hProvision will allow Anglicans to join Catholic Church while maintaining identity, traditions.08:26
RST38h(did they ask the Anglicans?)08:26
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tigerthmm08:42
* tigert wonders if anyone has built imagemagick and pythonmagick for fremantle08:43
tigerthttp://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/transform/#polaroid08:43
tigertthis would be a nice engine for a nice quik-photo-effect app08:44
ali12341imagemagick is kinda old and crappy08:46
ali12341if you want to process images in python, use PIL08:46
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luke-jrali12341: AFAIK imagemagick is maintained and still irreplacable08:54
luke-jrjust because you don't need it doesn't mean nobody else does08:54
ali12341the same could be said of cobol08:54
ali12341doesn't mean it's a good idea to write new programs in it08:54
luke-jrali12341: cobol is neither maintained (AFAIK) nor irreplacable08:56
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tekojoMorning _marcell09:01
Stskeepsmorning tekojo, _marcell_09:01
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_marcell_Stskeeps: hi09:01
tekojoMorning Stskeeps up early!09:01
Stskeepstekojo: and no coffee yet :(09:02
* Stskeeps sleepwalks to the kitchen09:02
tekojoOh, irc before coffee, I can't do that09:03
_marcell_me neither :)09:04
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RST38hMorning, Sts, tekojo09:06
tekojoMorning RST38h09:06
RST38hHow are things in the Maemoland?09:06
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_marcell_murrayc: how are the 401s doing today? (re bug 5622)09:12
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tekojo_marcell_ have you changed the setting back from direct number pointing?09:13
_marcell_tekojo: yesterday we switched it together to direct and then back because you said that fds fixed something. apparently the fix did not work because 3 hours later x-fade contacted me that many more people are affected, so it is back to direct number atm09:15
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Stskeepsluke-jr: speaking of open handhelds, saw that someone got a kernel going on meizu m8, s3c6410?09:16
luke-jrMeizu M8 = ?09:17
Stskeepsgoogle it09:17
luke-jrStskeeps: just looking at another s3c6410 phone-- http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1988&c=samsung_gt-b7620_giorgio_armani09:17
luke-jrStskeeps: pdadb sez that Meizu M8 doesn't exist until March 201009:18
Stskeepswell how on earth does normal hackers have it then..09:18
luke-jrthere's a release miniOne variant apparently09:18
luke-jrit's s3c6410?09:18
luke-jrpdadb doesn't know this09:18
Stskeepspdadb is obviously not all-knowing09:19
luke-jrno kb, useless09:19
tekojo_marcell_ yes, now fds is telling that it's ok again, evening was some problem with dns09:19
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_marcell_tekojo: well, I will switch it back then, ping me/reopen the bug if there are problems09:20
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tekojo_marcell_ certainly, thanks!09:20
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murrayc_marcell_: I just tried an apt-get update and it's still there:   401 Unauthorized [IP: 92.122.212.35 80]09:24
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tekojomurrayc can you tell the exact time?09:26
murrayc5 minutes ago.09:26
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murrayctekojo: Doing it again right now worked, but that's what happened last time.09:27
murrayctekojo: And doing it once more did not work:   401 Unauthorized [IP: 92.122.212.80 80]09:27
tekojomurrayc can your computer make up it's mind :-)09:27
murraycI guess it's akamai's many servers having separate configurations.09:28
tekojoThey should replicate as soon as there is a change... so murrayc can you ask someone in your office to try in say ten minutes?09:28
murraycOK.09:30
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tekojo_marcell_ back to ip number, stskeeps can reproduce in a different location09:41
_marcell_tekojo: ok09:42
_marcell_tekojo: done09:42
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lirihey guys09:49
lirithe n810 got back to function after I took out the sd card and booted09:49
lirithen I turned it off, inserted the sd card and turned on again, it booted off successfuly09:49
lirino idea what was wrong except that it had something to do with the sd card obviously09:49
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murrayctekojo: It's working repeatedly now, though I don't know how much that tells us.10:24
Stskeepsworksforme too10:24
tekojomurrayc Stskeeps works because we are using the direct ip number again10:26
murraycSo no akamai?10:26
tekojosomething bad in the dns at the file delivery system10:26
tekojomurrayc akamai is there, but we are talking directly to the export control server because the dns is somehow missing it10:28
murraycOK. Thanks for taking care of it.10:28
tekojomurrayc, well it's a workaround, not fixed :-)10:29
X-Fadetekojo: users don't care ;) As long as it works..10:29
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tekojoX-Fade we do, because the workaround will blow up some nice day. Most likely on the day when everyone is on vacation :-)10:30
X-Fadetekojo: Sure, but you know I have a patch waiting for that ;)10:30
tekojoYep, and anyway we need to do something about that real soon now. Akamai is nice, but the export thingy is not10:31
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Passelidoes maemo 5 support hardware accelerated OpenVG ?10:34
Corsacyes10:34
Passeliok, thanks10:35
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StskeepsVG? really? :P10:37
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vesais there a vlc-plugin for the n900 browser? getting a popup saying 'error: no playlist! This might be because you don't have vlc-plugin installed'10:39
wazd_heya maemo10:39
vesacan't find one via the app manager atleast10:39
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X-Fadevesa: probably a javascript error with that text.10:39
X-Fadevesa: created by the site itself.10:40
vesahmm, could be. maybe i should find out what codec/stuff that site uses (recorded tv-shows, online viewing of your own recorded programmes)10:40
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vesayeah it's a javascript error, getting same with chrome on my pc10:43
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mgedminso, I kept saying to myself "I will not connect to IRC this morning, not until I have at least done some work"10:45
mgedminand then, in a moment of absent-mindness, well, here I am10:45
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JaffaMorning, all10:47
Stskeepsaddiction is a bitch, yeah10:47
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RST38hmgedmin: screen.10:48
RST38hand good morning, btw10:48
JaffaX-Fade: ping10:48
X-FadeJaffa: pong10:48
JaffaX-Fade: Known issue: Tennix shows up in the QA queue as 1.0-2 and again later as 1.0-5?10:49
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X-FadeJaffa: Hmm crap, I really need to debug that. It should not do that ;)10:50
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tekojoX-Fade looks like Hermes is doing it too... 0.0.6 and 0.1.010:51
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X-Fadetekojo: At least there is a pattern then ;)10:52
JaffaI was a good QA tester this morning, and wanted to test the oldest; but the version the app mgr wanted to install wasn't the one I was expecting :)10:52
tekojoAnd as far as I can see it started just a small while ago (but then again I'm inside the bloody firewall that caches things without asking)10:52
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auenfbeen meaning to join this channel for years...10:56
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rmtmoving house! Back online next week! Take care, al!10:57
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cosmoGeneralAntilles: pong10:57
X-Fadeauenf: Glad you finally did ;)10:57
Jaffaauenf: welcome :)10:58
JaffaIt's a friendly place. Mostly.10:59
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mgedminshh! don't scare him/her11:04
timeless_mbphi mgedmin11:04
timeless_mbpso...11:04
mgedminhi, timeless11:04
timeless_mbpgettext.py sucks :)11:04
timeless_mbphttp://bugs.python.org/issue144806011:05
timeless_mbpand friends11:05
lbt_lcuk: ping11:05
lbt_lcuk: PING11:05
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mgedmintimeless_mbp: which file triggered it?11:07
timeless_mbpi have 3 mo files that triggered similar errors11:07
timeless_mbpthat patch fixed 1 of them11:07
mgedminI ran it on my n900 and it processed all the files, except for one Taiwanese translation that triggered a "unknown encoding" error11:07
timeless_mbpwow11:07
timeless_mbpi used Mer11:07
lbt_timeless_mbp:  YAY!!!11:08
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lbt_timeless_mbp: (know you see we need more help!)11:09
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hrwmorning11:12
auenfso, the forum thread about 'senior' users depending on when they signed up for itt, or when they first got their device11:13
auenfdoes my 7710 count :P11:13
mgedmindoes it run maemo? ;)11:14
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auenfthe ui was the initial influence for maemo :P11:15
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X-Fadeauenf: hildon is much older11:15
auenfui design i should say11:15
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: so... did you actually add a thread for the parsing?11:22
mgedminnope11:22
mgedminwasn't sure why you wanted a thread11:22
mgedminto parse while the very first ui screen is active?11:22
timeless_mbpyep11:22
timeless_mbpusers are slow11:22
mgedminthat haves off 3 seconds off the 60 second parse time11:23
mgedmindidn't seem worth the effort11:23
* timeless_mbp ponders11:23
mgedminnow caching the parsed translations so it starts up instantly the next time you run it, that would be worth it11:23
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mgedminwould need an extra menu item 'build missing translations' to discover new or updated .mo files11:23
timeless_mbpthe problem w/ that is one needs to cache the datestamps11:23
timeless_mbpand figure out how to invalidate bits11:24
mgedminthat's not a problem, that's a solution ;)11:24
mgedminhm, actually okay, maybe hm11:24
mgedminthen I had plan B: sqlite11:24
Jaffaauenf: I don't think having a 7710 is something to shout about11:24
mgedminDELETE FROM translations WHERE filename = 'file_that_was_updated.mo';11:24
timeless_mbpheh11:24
timeless_mbpthe sqlite approach seems like a reasonable winner11:25
timeless_mbpthat'd probably make it easier to handle plurals too11:26
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* mgedmin is dreaming of a full hildon 2.whateveristhelatestversion ui11:28
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suihkulokkiJaffa: 7710 was not that bad, but 7700 was quite epic11:30
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: i'm going to work w/ qwerty12_N810 to get zenity improved to be more fingerable on our devices11:31
timeless_mbpi'd rather not spend time worrying about the ui11:32
RST38hmgedmin: just get yourself a mac.11:32
* RST38h hides11:32
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RST38hInteresting: http://2dboy.com/2009/10/19/birthday-sale-results/11:36
RST38hHello, javis11:36
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javispedromoo11:37
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RST38hhttp://2dboy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/histogram.png11:37
auenfJaffa, 7710 is a landscape only smartphone11:38
auenfa good case in point that portrait mode is overrated :P11:38
RST38hHow is it a good case in point?11:38
auenfi havent used it for over 2 years now either11:38
* RST38h does not see 7710 being widely used and never has11:39
auenfand its still out specs the original iphone11:39
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javispedrowtf did quim just do to sdl?11:58
mgedminrebuild it with opengl enabled?11:58
X-Fadejavispedro: 733t hacker?11:58
javispedrowhat for? there's no opengl11:58
javispedroX-Fade: well, him or whoever uploaded new SDL.11:59
X-Fadejavispedro: I'm pretty sure that Quim doesn't touch code ;)11:59
javispedroyeah :)11:59
javispedroone sdl bug fixed and it's mostly useless unless they added egl support to sdl 1.2 *sigh*12:00
javispedrosorry, I'm missing something? or did Nokia just do a greatly stupid thing?12:02
X-Fadejavispedro: Why does it matter?12:02
javispedrobecause the only thing putting --enable-video-opengl is going to do is enlarge the binary.12:03
X-Fadejavispedro: ok, but that is hardly breaking ;)12:03
JaffaBut there's no point testing it if it's not going to work.12:04
mgedminsee http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-October/021561.html12:04
Jaffajavispedro: I was confused too.12:04
javispedroeither quim is missing an important quote ("ah, we added EGL support too") or this does not make any sense.12:05
X-FadeDoes it do translation perhaps? :)12:05
javispedrodunno.12:05
javispedrolol12:05
mgedminhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4177 tells the story12:06
mgedminpeople tried it in the SDK, it worked, they filed a bug12:06
X-FadeSeems that people are confused.12:06
mgedminthen they tried it on the device and hit a wall: egl != gl12:06
X-FadeOpenGL != Opengles.12:06
javispedroof course GLX works in the SDK, it just forwards to host GLX.12:06
mgedminso somebody who knows these things go to that bug and gently educate everyone12:07
* javispedro looks sdl source just in case12:07
X-Fademgedmin: done ;)12:07
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javispedroX-Fade, ta12:09
RST38hbetter mention ogles though or there will be shitstorm12:09
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javispedroI will mention Firebird's (feel pinged, btw!) port.12:10
X-FadeRST38h: Nah, I like people to show how much they know ;)12:10
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RST38hthis is not what they'll show though...12:10
javispedro~seen Firebird12:11
infobotfirebird <n=Firebird@pool-138-88-201-253.res.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5h 50m 31s ago, saying: 'its not announced anywhere and frankly looks a bit sketchy'.12:11
epa_anyone else feeling that browsing the calendar (Day view) to prev/next is too slow?12:12
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mgedminbrowsing the calendar is unpleasant enough that I never do it12:12
mgedmintherefore I never noticed slowness12:12
epa_seems that day can be switched with finger left to right or vice versa and also with cursor keys in keyboard12:12
epa_mgedmin: I've got similar feelings now12:13
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mgedminyes, the "mouse gestures" feel weird and strange without visual feedback12:13
mgedminmy theory is that nokia is running a user interface experiment12:13
javispedroouch, browsing calendar with finger gestures? :(12:13
epa_mgedmin: do you know of any calendar software that would be better?12:13
lbt_gpe is nice12:13
* timeless_mbp frowns12:13
mgedmindifferent apps have different uis, and they wait and see which ones people like and which ones they hate12:13
X-FadeCalendar doesn't really feel like the other Fremantle apps12:13
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* mgedmin puts on tinfoil hat12:14
timeless_mbpmgedmin: can you walk me through using python -d? :)12:14
mgedminwhat's python -d?12:14
lbt_not used on 90012:14
epa_javispedro: no I just select the first day of the week and then browse onwards a bit12:14
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epa_javispedro: changing a day takes ~2 seconds12:14
mgedmintimeless: what are you trying to do?12:14
javispedrooh, I hoped the calendar was usable at least.12:14
timeless_mbpdebug mercurial12:15
X-Fadejavispedro: usable enough for me at lest.12:15
mgedmindebug the python syntax parser?12:15
epa_javispedro: it is usable IMO, but plenty of room for improvement12:15
timeless_mbpi see where it's doing something i don't like12:15
timeless_mbpbut i don't know what the data structures look like12:15
timeless_mbpok, clearly i don't want python -d12:16
mgedmintypical python debugging is like this: http://docs.python.org/library/pdb.html12:16
mgedminwell, actually, more typical is edit the source of the program and insert a breakpoint by doing 'import pdb; pdb.set_trace()' where you want it12:17
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* epa_ will try GPE. 12:20
epa_thanks12:20
timeless_mbpok12:21
timeless_mbphow do i step along an expansion?12:23
timeless_mbpor is it not worth it?12:23
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timeless_mbpi'm looking at:12:23
timeless_mbprevs = [other.lookup(rev) for rev in revs]12:23
hrwok, another stupid question: someone got n900 usb working as host?12:24
Jaffahrw: It's not possible due to h/w limitiations necessitated by USB charging12:25
epa_jaffa: iirc someone at conference said it was done.12:25
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epa_but since I don't have it working can't wouch for it.12:25
X-Fadeprobably switching it on in software is possible, supplying power externally?12:25
epa_yes12:26
JaffaSee the messages from Igor Stoppa et al on both tmo and maemo-developers.12:26
epa_injector was mentioned in the conversation12:26
timeless_mbpigor contributes too much12:26
mgedmintimeless_mbp: either n or s might do it12:27
mgedminI do most of my debugging with print statements12:27
timeless_mbphow do i get a list of props/methods of an object?12:27
javispedrook, basically, unless radical changes to SDL source from the previous fremantle SDL version, the "new" SDL will just print "Failed loading libGL.so" then crash since screen wil be NULL.12:28
epa_timeless_mbp: in python?12:28
timeless_mbpyes12:28
wazd_http://my-symbian.com/other/grafika/scr10.jpg <- eeek12:29
timeless_mbpjavispedro: sounds good12:29
epa_dir(obj)12:29
Stskeepswazd_: gotta love em n900's12:29
timeless_mbpthat's gmail at the top12:29
javispedroor either fallback silently to XShm again if SDL_OPENGL not passed.12:29
X-Fadewazd_: That is nothing.12:30
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X-Fadewazd_: It can actually scroll for a few screen heights easily ;)12:30
javispedrowazd_: more pretty than current diablo task switcher.12:31
javispedroat least it has 4 columns.12:31
wazd_X-Fade: confess, you're not a human :)12:32
X-Fadewazd_: Every conversation can open a new window :)12:32
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lardmanmorning12:38
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javispedromoo lardman12:39
sarowerHello all, Good evening12:39
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javispedroor morning ;)12:39
sarowerThough i have included the header properly, it is showing error using.. "GtkWidget *text1 = gtk_text_new(NULL,NULL);"12:39
lardmanhmm, good to see Tracker doens't classify .mp4 as video.....12:40
sarowerCompilation error!!!12:40
sarowerAny help?12:40
sarowerError: error: 'gtk_text_new' was not declared in this scope12:40
javispedroyou didn't paste the error, but I guess12:40
javispedro.12:40
javispedro#include <gtk/gtk.h>12:40
javispedroon top12:40
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sarowerbut it does not work too12:40
lardmanpastebin the file12:41
javispedrogtk_text_new is deprecated AFAIK.12:41
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sarowerjavispedro: then what should be done?12:41
javispedrosarower: multiline or single line text field?12:41
sarowerjavispedro: single line12:42
javispedroGtkWidget *text1 = GTK_WIDGET(gtk_entry_new());12:42
javispedrosarower, and I also suggest you search for a Gtk+ tutorial and follow it :)12:42
sarowerjavispedro: yes I can use it but i want something like label12:43
javispedrosomething like label?12:43
sarowerjavispedro: On the table if i attach a label it is not showing12:43
javispedrooh, tables is a bigger problem then.12:43
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sarowerjavispedro: just a label beside text entry field!12:43
javispedrosarower: HildonCaption12:44
sarowerjavispedro: Can i attach a caption in the table12:44
sarowerjavispedro:  GtkTable!12:44
javispedroa GtkTable is a layout.12:45
javispedroa.12:45
javispedrowell, I don't know if a GtkTable is the best tool for the job. I'd use HildonCaption and size groups.12:45
RST38hjavis <-- apparently not aware of the previous channel history12:45
sarowerjavispedro: Ok let me check that12:46
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sarowerjavispedro: Actuallu I am using the interface like: Dialog->Table->Image-> Text field, label etc..12:46
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javispedroRST38h: no, I?m not aware, so please correct me If I'm misguiding him12:48
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hrwother thing - someone got confirmation from nokia forum for n900 discount?13:00
RST38hnot yet13:00
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javispedrome neither, and the whole "pro" forum was down yesterday.13:02
javispedroprobably used to 10 people hitting it a day it imploded under the load of 500 maemians banging it.13:02
jeremiahOh! I'm wearing a cloak!13:03
jeremiahOr is it a cape?13:03
RST38h"A University of Colorado scientist has claimed that magpies hold "funerals" for fallen friends."13:03
jeremiahOh the humanity.13:03
jeremiahwait.13:03
X-FadeRST38h: Money well spent ;)13:03
RST38hjeremiah: It is a trenchcoat, and the sticking thing is a gun.13:03
RST38hDON'T LET THEM TAKE YOU ALIVE13:04
jeremiahheh13:04
hrwheh.....13:04
javispedrohehe.13:04
hrw256MB /, 2GB /opt - who invented that....13:04
RST38hX-Fade: Better like that than bombing another hapless bunch of towelheads13:04
* hrw wants rootfs on that 32GB internal..13:05
X-Fadehrw: No you don't.13:05
javispedrothe reasons have been pointed many times, and a proper solution hasn't been found.13:05
X-Fadehrw: A lot slower.13:05
javispedrothus, stuck with that hack.13:05
X-Fadehrw: Parts of it, may be ;)13:05
hrwcrap13:06
hrwX-Fade: so looks like best way is to buy really fast microsd for rootfs?13:06
javispedroX-Fade: OTOH, i don't think the onenand - emmc speed diff is any bigger than it was on n810 already.13:06
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hrwor use lot of symlinks to get rid of "omg / is full again"?13:06
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GeneralAntilleshrw, does such a beast exist? ;)13:06
X-Fadejavispedro: Don't know, but the difference is very noticeable.13:06
cotigaohi, does maemo use arm audio codecs for n900?13:06
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I think the oneNANDA pulls away with UBIFS, though.13:07
hrwGeneralAntilles: did not checked - I just have few small ones + 1x8gb in my phone13:07
hrwGeneralAntilles: never needed tocheck their speed13:07
hrwbtw - / is on jffs2 or ubifs?13:08
GeneralAntillesUBIFS13:08
javispedroGeneralAntilles: i read some benchmarks about UBIFS / JFFS2. UBIFS was a bit slower while reading actually.13:08
javispedro(much faster when writing iirc)13:08
Stskeepsand jffs takes ages to mount13:08
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hrwGeneralAntilles: uf. at least one good news13:08
GeneralAntilleshrw, the storage arrangement isn't perfect but it shouldn't be something most people have to worry about.13:09
GeneralAntillesWhich is what matters in the end.13:09
javispedrowe need 32 GiB OneNAND ;)13:09
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, and I want a dual-1GHz OMAP4.13:09
javispedroyes! with 48h battery life!13:09
GeneralAntillesNo, 128!13:09
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hrwGeneralAntilles: or u8500 instead of omap413:10
GeneralAntilleshrw, I'm a TI fan.13:11
lardmancan people see this page?: http://share.ovi.com/album/lardman.MaemoSummit200913:11
javispedroI can..13:12
adeusyes13:12
GeneralAntilleshrw, it's hard to discount TI's open source movement over the past few years.13:12
lardmangood good13:12
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: In that case, I commend you on your good choice in music artists13:12
lardmanthanks chaps13:12
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javispedrooh, ovi maps works in firefox now.13:13
GeneralAntillesNow if only it worked in Maemo. :roll:13:13
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javispedrowell, 3d is still windows only :(13:14
ensiright i have this qt app on maemo  5 and i stuck a lineEdit in the mainwindow13:14
timeless_mbpjavispedro: it works in firefox?13:14
ensihowever it cannot get focus and i cannot input any text into it13:14
ensiit works fine in scratchbox but not on the device13:14
javispedrotimeless: it puts itself in "google maps"-like 2d javascript mode.13:15
timeless_mbpjavispedro: did it offer a plugin13:15
javispedroit does if I click on 3d13:15
javispedroand then proceeds to say I can go to hell for not having Windows.13:15
timeless_mbpdoes it install?13:15
timeless_mbpfwiw, you can also go that way if you use ff3.6+13:15
timeless_mbpthe idiots found an obsolete plugin api (obsoleted before ff1.0) and used it13:16
javispedrobut the plugin will be a windows binary either way.13:16
timeless_mbpwe have sources ;-)13:16
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timeless_mbpbut you don't want them13:16
javispedrothis is the kind of webapp that may benefit from webgl or something like that.13:17
* timeless_mbp kicks them13:17
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javispedrothe rotation feature is also disabled. thank god, rotating the bitmap in js would have killed this machine.13:18
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* timeless_mbp chuckles13:18
timeless_mbpsadly the rotation feature works better in maemo5 than dragging13:18
timeless_mbpfor some reason they intentionally avoid loading other portions of the map while you're dragging13:19
timeless_mbp....13:19
javispedrothe map is the usual navteq quality. good on big cities awful outside them.13:19
* timeless_mbp ponders13:19
timeless_mbpdoes Kiev count as a big city?13:20
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javispedrodunno, it varies from country to country.13:20
javispedroon my birth place according to navteq all streets share the same name.13:20
GeneralAntillesWow, Newegg's price is below Amazon's on the N900.13:20
GeneralAntillesFree shipping, too.13:20
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hrwok, next thing: how fast is n900 in usb-storage mode?13:22
ifreqGeneralAntilles: * Free shipping not available to AK, HI and PR.  what do those mean?13:23
X-Fadehrw: > 10MB/s read is what I've seen.13:23
GeneralAntillesifreq, Alaska Hawaii, Puerto Rico.13:24
GeneralAntillesifreq, because UPS Ground to Alaska costs about $50. ;)13:24
ifreqGeneralAntilles: heh okay :)13:24
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javispedroI predict the 256MiB rootfs will come back to bite the N900 someday.13:29
javispedroif it's ever solved now, of course :D13:30
X-Fadejavispedro: FIXED in harmattan? :)13:30
javispedroin harmattan HARDWARE, which worries me :(13:30
X-Fadejavispedro: For us it makes no difference.13:31
X-Fadejavispedro: You can easily put a symlink somewhere to get more space.13:31
javispedroprobably.13:31
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javispedroA public backslash with the N900 won't help with the N920 sales.13:31
X-Fadejavispedro: Regular users won't notice it either.13:32
X-Fadejavispedro: They will get apps from Nokia, which are optified and best case from Extras.13:32
X-FadeWhere we will make sure big apps are optified too.13:32
hrwyou can also move from onenand to card with rootfs13:32
javispedroX-Fade: hopefully. But that's what I mean that it may some day come back; something will be found.13:32
javispedroprediction just :)13:33
X-Fadejavispedro: Well, it already has ;) That is why we have optification in the first plac.13:33
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javispedrowell, hopefully all goes well.13:33
javispedrobtw, does anyone know the history behind /var/lib/install?13:33
javispedroI've seen it mentioned a few times but I wasn't here by then.13:34
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javispedro(preferably something I can read ;) )13:34
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javispedroI mean, why?13:34
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zerojayX-Fade: Thanks for the additions to the packages interface.13:49
X-Fadezerojay: more coming up ;)13:50
zerojayHiding i386 version of packages? :)13:50
X-Fadezerojay: Well, you should not see them if you are using the correct queue url.13:51
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X-Fademikkov_: ping?13:52
zerojayX-Fade: I am, but people get confused from time ot time.13:53
X-Fadezerojay: Yeah, I'm thinking of removing the voting part from the i386 pages.13:53
zerojayX-Fade: That would be a big help.13:54
javispedroI think the voting part and packages interface should separate.13:54
javispedrofrom a user POV.13:54
X-Fadejavispedro: That would give twice as many urls to get lost in ;)13:55
zerojayWould be nice to be able to use that PackageRate program to actually vote on packages as well.13:55
javispedroprobably, but the voting one could be as simple as m.o/qa/<packagename>13:55
javispedrom.o/qa/<packagename>/<version> maybe13:56
javispedrocompletely ignoring that <packagename> is avail for 300 archs.13:56
javispedroor that a new version is in extras-devel, or whatever.13:56
X-Fadejavispedro: Well, you don't see that in the QA queue.13:57
X-Fadejavispedro: Only if you are curious and click through ;)13:57
javispedroI still click on a package and go to the package "overview"13:57
javispedroI have to click on the version column to go to the "voting" page.13:57
javispedroand then (thinking like a user) I get confused with all those actions and imports, and armel and x86, and...13:58
X-Fadejavispedro: Yeah, that is something I might change.13:58
X-Fadejavispedro: For QA queue to only link to the instance page.13:58
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javispedrofine :)13:59
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mikkov__X-Fade, hi13:59
X-Fademikkov__: Can you ping me if/when you receive a 'Promotion unlock notification' ?14:00
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RST38hX-Fade: Should I file bugs with respect to the current promotion interface?14:01
mikkov__X-Fade: ok14:02
lcukzerojay, packagerate?14:02
zerojaylcuk: Some program in extras-devel.14:03
X-FadeRST38h: Sure14:05
RST38hA'ok14:05
lcukzerojay, does it do what it says on the tin?14:06
javispedroprobably not, I remember it being on diablo already.14:07
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lcukshame14:07
* lcuk installs it anyway14:09
javispedrowow, amemo fansites are still popping up14:09
X-Fadejavispedro: You have a race condition in your keyboard ;)14:10
javispedroamemo, interesting typo.14:10
javispedroX-Fade: actually, yes. I think this is due to my borking of hildon-input-method.14:10
javispedrosometimes it happens, quite noticeable on the browser.14:10
javispedrobut I am on my desktop right now ;) lol14:11
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: i didn't realise yesterday you were talking about the new mac line14:12
RST38hX-Fade, javispedro: Please see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5666 and comment14:12
RST38hX-Fade: If you wish, I can give you the Packrat source code and help integrating it14:13
javispedroRST38h: you could be a little more.. eh.. "concrete" in your reports.14:13
RST38hX-Fade: It makes repository browsing order of magnitude easier14:13
RST38hjavispedro: This is not concrete?14:13
javispedroin your bug subjects at least.14:13
X-FadeRST38h: There will be an alternative at some point.14:13
RST38hjavispedro; Yea, I guess the subject can be considered imprecise, fixing it14:13
RST38hDone14:14
RST38hX-Fade: Let us make this point like "right now", shall we? :)14:14
* javispedro hopes he didn't put "Extras QA voting interfaces makes my eyes bleed"14:14
javispedroah, you didn't :D14:14
RST38hX-Fade: 'cause multiple people are already complaining on t.m.o and on the Net that "Fremantle lacks apps"14:15
X-FadeRST38h: Do you really think this bug will get another response than 'INVALID'14:15
javispedroon the other side, I think there's quite a bit of room for improvement in the QA interface (NOT the packages interface! IMHO)14:15
RST38hX-Fade: No. But I will get satisfaction out of filing a bug report for an obvious problem acknowledged by a lot of people and having it (predictably) shut down because the people responsible cannot be bothered14:15
RST38hX-Fade: I just like the irony, if you get my drift...14:16
crashanddieX-Fade: I hope he did hope for another response than INVALID, elsehow, I don't see why he went through the trouble of writing it down14:16
crashanddieRST38h: that being said, flaming X-Fade isn't going to make the problem go away14:17
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X-FadeConstructive suggestions about small parts will help a lot more.14:17
RST38hcrashanddie: I am not even flaming yet =)14:18
zerojayhttp://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/classic-gaming-wallpapers/1.3-1maemo3/ - Anyone out there think they can help me out by testing it out and thumbing it up or down? Just a bunch of wallpapers, nothing too hard.14:18
RST38hJust voicing out concerns :)14:18
RST38hX-Fade: Please refer to the Expected Result part of the bug tracker14:18
RST38hX-Fade: It lists precise, constructive suggestions14:18
crashanddieRST38h: you know it's part of the roadmap, and if "the powers that be" think this issue shouldn't be put forward (talking about the deadline), then it's probably because there are bigger issues at hand14:18
mgedminzerojay: is this the package that creates /opt/maemo-backgrounds?14:18
crashanddieRST38h: just because you don't see the bigger picture doesn't mean there isn't one14:18
X-FadeRST38h: Multiple issues in one bug.14:19
RST38hcrash: it is quite possible there is no bigger picture.14:19
RST38hcrash: In fact, it is the most probable case14:19
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X-FadeRST38h: And again, if you really cared you would have been in the round-table14:19
zerojaymgedmin: Indeed.14:19
crashanddieRST38h: right, and they refuse to work on this because there's a huge conspiracy to piss you off and say "INVALID" to anything you notice14:19
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mgedminzerojay: why not /opt/maemo/classic-gaming-wallpapers?14:20
mgedminnot that I'm insisting or anything14:20
mgedminbut it would be clearer14:20
zerojaymgedmin: Because it was the consensus that we came to when I asked around here.14:20
mgedminhmm14:20
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crashanddieRST38h: and yes, you *are* trolling/flaming14:21
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zerojayBut I'm open to moving it elsewhere.14:21
javispedromgedmin: the idea was that all maemo-background packages would use it.14:21
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mgedminthe trouble of consensus is that different people assemble in different venues and come up with different consensuses :-)14:21
mgedminah, makes sense I guess14:21
zerojayWell I'm the only one attempting to push wallpapers into Extras, so I get to be the trailblazer. ;)14:21
mgedminI had the impression from the mailing list that optification should all be under /opt/maemo/, not just /opt14:21
javispedromgedmin: yeah, optification of binaries and things following the usual / structure14:22
mgedminno personal preferences really14:22
javispedro/usr/lib, etc.14:22
mgedminin which case /opt/maemo/$pkgname would've been wrong14:22
zerojayjavispedro: Should I move it then?14:22
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javispedrobut /opt/maemo/wallpapers would make no sense. it would've to be /opt/maemo/usr/share/backgrounds14:22
mgedminand /opt/maemo/usr/share/backgrounds-or-whatever/ is a bit unwieldy14:22
Macerjesus. gina ravera has a huge head.14:23
* mgedmin is rapidly becoming convinced that /opt/maemo-backgrounds isn't a bad choice14:23
Macerhttp://www.imdb.com/media/rm1388681216/nm071240614:23
javispedrozerojay: I'd said not :)14:23
Maceri don't think they are like that for the picture. i think her head started to suck in the other woman's due to gravity14:23
zerojayGoodie. I'm lazy anyways. lol14:23
javispedroi forgot about the n900wallpapers stuff either way.14:23
javispedrowhat was the latest plan?14:24
timeless_mbpmgedmin: because?14:24
zerojayI've been talking with code177 and he'll follow the same convention.14:24
javispedrohe'll manually package a set like you?14:24
mgedmintimeless_mbp: preexisting consensus to put wallpapers there, mostly14:24
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mgedminI'm a sucker for following the herd14:24
zerojayNo, he's writing an app interface for the site along with an API.14:24
javispedrozerojay: ah, good.14:25
timeless_mbpmgedmin: consensii ?14:26
zerojayI told him that his thumbnails turn out... well... smaller than my thumbnail on the n900 screen.14:26
mgedminwhat's the posix way to find the mountpoint of the filesystem that a given file lives on?14:26
javispedrohm. only thing I noticed is that you use PNG, he uses JPEG.14:26
zerojayjavispedro: Yeah, I rule. :)14:27
mgedmine.g. mountpoint('/opt/maemo-backgrounds/foo.png') -> '/home' (or '/opt', I don't care) ?14:27
mgedmincurrently I'm traversing parent dirs and calling stat() on each, until st_dev changes14:27
javispedromgedmin: realpath plus parsing /proc/mounts? (first guess)14:27
mgedminwhich gives me /opt/maemo-backgrounds as the answer14:27
mgedminmaybe I should try sticking realpath in there14:27
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mgedminokay, that gives me /home, which is fine14:28
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mgedminI wish sort had an option to skip the first few lines without sorting14:30
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RST38hcrash: There is no huge conspiracy. It is just that nobody cares.14:31
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RST38hX-Fade: Ok, back to the matter: you really want me to file a separate bug tracker for each of the items on that list?14:32
javispedromgedmin: sort does not, but tail does.14:32
RST38hX-Fade: Or is it ok to leave them all in one bug tracker as it basically deals with a single task?14:32
javispedrodebian used it in some init script when parsing /proc/mounts14:32
mgedminsee, javispedro, splitting the output with head/tail, sorting part of it, then stiching it back together is not exactly convenient for shell oneliners14:32
javispedro:)14:33
javispedroyeah, wrongly guessed your task at hand ;)14:33
mgedminmy task at hand: http://pastie.org/66332014:33
javispedronot a bad idea.14:34
mgedminmc and pc-connectivity-manager need optification14:34
mgedminbluemaemo, x11vnc and fbreader could use it too14:34
javispedrois your rootfs full?14:34
mgedminas well as osm2go14:34
mgedminjavispedro: not any more14:34
javispedroah, I was worried that with such a few installed pkg list it would already fill your rotofs.14:35
mgedminI had 3 megs free, then upgraded a couple of 20kb packages and it was full full full, then after a crash and reboot I suddenly have 26 megs free14:35
Jaffamgedmin: javispedro: Anything using maemo-optify will go under /opt/maemo, but if things are done manually (not using /opt/maemo), they can use /opt however they want (usually /opt/<package>)14:35
mgedminJaffa: my question was more about should; I had the incorrect impression the scheme was /opt/maemo/<package> rather than /opt/<package>14:35
mgedminproblem with maemo-list-packages: it doesn't show libraries that may also need to be optified14:36
mgedminlibzlibrary is an exception (and a misfeature of fbreader's packaging)14:36
hrwand in the end we will get /opt/maemo/ + /opt/total-mess/14:36
timeless_mbpmgedmin: cute14:36
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timeless_mbphere's the line it doesn't like:14:36
timeless_mbpnplurals=1, plural=0;14:36
timeless_mbpnote that the line should be nplurals=1; plural=014:36
timeless_mbpor something14:37
mgedmindoes gettext-the-C-library like that line, timeless_mbp?14:37
timeless_mbpdefine like?14:37
w00thmm, brainstorm forum, cool14:37
* mgedmin shrugs14:37
mgedminyou didn't define "doesn't like"14:38
timeless_mbpdoesn't like = triggers exception while parsing14:38
timeless_mbpresulting in entire file being lost14:38
mgedmincan C gettext use translations from that file? probably yes14:38
mgedminngettext might not work but plain gettext will14:38
mgedmindoes ngettext work?14:38
mgedminthe psize script if anybody is curious: http://pastie.org/66332414:39
mgedminpastie.org is pretty14:39
timeless_mbphttp://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/id-dpkg.mo14:40
timeless_mbpfwiw14:40
timeless_mbpgive me a command to use gettext?14:40
Jaffamgedmin: /opt/maemo/<package> MUST NOT be used. /opt/<package> or /opt/maemo/<path> SHOULD be used.14:40
mgedminJaffa: I got that already, but thanks for reiterating14:41
mgedminI think it was proposed as one of the alternatives in the thread, and I misremembered14:41
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: should this work?14:43
crashanddiemgedmin: slexy.org is better :P14:44
timeless_mbpLC_MESSAGES=id LC_ALL=id gettext dpkg ' %d in %s: '14:44
mgedmincrashanddie: de gustibus non disputandum14:45
crashanddiemgedmin: et colaribus ;)14:45
mgedminbut remind me not to ask your opinion when I'm redecorating14:45
crashanddiethat reminds me, mgedmin, when you're redecorating, don't ask for my opinion14:45
mgedminoh! thanks, I'd forgotten14:46
mgedminbut I'm not redecorating now14:46
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: so... how the heck do i get ngettext to do something for me? :(14:48
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timeless_mbpM='%d errors in control file'14:48
timeless_mbpLC_MESSAGES=id14:48
timeless_mbpngettext dpkg "$M" "$M" 514:49
RST38hJaffa: so /opt/<package> is ok? goood14:49
javispedrobut I'd say not to misuse that "much".14:50
javispedrosince I still have this hope for a proper unionfs deep inside me.14:50
mgedmintimeless_mbp: sorry, I don't have time now :/14:50
hrwRST38h: I would prefer /opt/packages/<package> to keep /opt/ a bit clean14:51
javispedroon my system I have /opt/<manufacturer>14:51
RST38hhrw: I do not really have any preferences other than it should be short14:51
RST38hAnything above that is unnecessary purism14:52
timeless_mbpmgedmin: ok14:52
mikkov__X-Fade: now I'm getting constant stream of promotion unlocked messages :(14:52
timeless_mbpi've got my gettext not dying :)14:52
X-Fademikkov__: For the same package?14:52
JaffaRST38h: Yes.14:52
mikkov__X-Fade: for 10 packages multiple times14:52
X-Fademikkov__: Exact same versions?14:53
timeless_mbpok14:53
timeless_mbpit doesn't actually work14:53
Jaffahrw: What's the point of the extra 'packages' directory? Packages choosing to use /opt/<package> are following the FHS (mostly)14:53
timeless_mbpThis option is not available ...14:53
mikkov__X-Fade: twice per package, armel and i38614:53
mikkov__X-Fade: but they don't even have 10 thumbs up14:54
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hrwJaffa: after installing 135 packages you will get 135 dirs for packages + /opt/maemo/ - a bit of order14:54
X-Fademikkov__: Let me kill that first then ;)14:54
Jaffajavispedro: There are two uses of /opt described in FHS: /opt/<registered-vendor>/<package> and /opt/<package>14:55
RST38hhrw: Following your suggestion you get 135 dirs in /opt/packages14:55
javispedroJaffa: ah, I see. thanks14:55
JaffaRST38h++14:55
RST38hI.e. you get 135 dirs either way14:55
RST38hSorting them by vendor just makes navigation more difficult14:56
X-Fademaildir style folders FTW! :)14:56
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JaffaX-Fade: I just got a load of "Promotion unlocked" messages, and it linked to a 404: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/hermes/0.1.0/14:56
hrwanyway do like you want - I probably will hack it in a way or other14:56
X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, that feature misfired..14:57
X-FadeJaffa: Badly :(14:57
RST38h"Apparently respectable programmers in Japan claim to have developed an algorithm which can tell, merely by listening to a person briefly, whether or not they are about to die."14:57
Jaffahrw: "do what you want"? This has been discussed openly and a consesnsus reached on maemo-developers.14:57
* RST38h hehehs14:57
Jaffahrw: And there's the Linux Filesystem Hierarchy Standard.14:57
hrwmkey14:58
lcukRST38h, it just compares the voice to the wilhelm scream14:58
RST38hOh, gentlemen, for Cthulhu's sake, stop arguing about this /opt stuff, it is *not* that important14:58
RST38hI mean, nice conversation / flame topic of course, but makes very small practical difference14:58
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lcukhey RST38h i put ti calc on, and i didnt realise you werent being composited either14:59
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lcukim planning on putting a standard pixmap on the x11 window when leaving focus, so that it zooms back nicely15:00
RST38hlcuk: Mmm? I just write into fb015:00
lcukwould the same work for you?15:00
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RST38hI do not even understand what you want to do =)15:00
lcukyeah i know, but when i went back to the dashboard you just had a black screen15:00
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RST38hlcuk: Ohm THAT15:01
lcukyeah, that15:01
RST38hlcuk: Yes, I can probably put a dummy image there of some kind, but does it matter much?15:01
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crashanddiehmm, let's see, task manager, black screen15:01
lcukits just a bit of polish15:02
lcuki know i need one15:02
lcukjust noticed it with yours15:02
crashanddieconsidering the task manager is one of the better features and probably most used ones of the n900, yeah, I'd say it matters15:02
lcuktis all15:02
RST38hWill think of it, although this means I will need a full-screen meaningful image for each app15:03
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lcukyou have a fullscreen meaningful image shown anyway15:03
lcukjust on lostfocus, grab the current image as a pixmap and show on x1115:03
lcuk(which was the plan i had for mine but its a bit tricky15:04
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* RST38h considers having the same image for all apps, saying "Ah, crap!" in military-style letters rotated to 45o15:04
lcuk"DON'T PANIC"15:04
RST38hPWNED ?15:04
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lcuk"thar be dragons"15:05
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SpeedEvillcuk: with the appropruate picure15:06
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RST38hX-Fade: What is that "promotion unlocked" stuff? All of my -Devel stuff is already promotied to -Testing, afaik15:07
lcukSpeedEvil, which picture tho15:07
SpeedEvilhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dragon_32_computer.jpg15:07
SpeedEvilOf course15:07
lcuk:D yessss15:07
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X-FadeRST38h: Should have been a notification when promotion criteria were met.15:08
X-FadeMinor bug :)15:08
RST38hAh15:11
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RST38hX-Fade: Hey, at least make the entries in the package list thinner and remove the multiple page stuff15:12
RST38hX-Fade: These are trivial changes15:12
crashanddieRST38h: how old are you?15:12
RST38h(also makes sense to sort them in order of advancement to -Testing15:12
RST38hcrash: 3715:12
RST38hcrash: you?15:13
crashanddiebloody hell, you act like someone 30 years younger than yourself15:13
RST38hcrash: Not really.15:13
RST38hcrash: So, how old are you and how often do you get to deal with real 7 year olds?15:14
crashanddieRST38h: twice a week, and I'm 2315:15
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* ifreq just read macformat/uk magazine and thinks everyone there are about 12 yo15:15
RST38hcrash: No kids yet?15:15
crashanddieifreq: try -users15:15
crashanddieRST38h: nope15:15
RST38hcrash: Figures.15:15
ifreqcrashanddie: false15:15
crashanddieRST38h: kids is like wifi, I borrow it from my neighbours15:15
crashanddieRST38h: I'm from the new generation, doing nothing during my teens, working like an idiot during my 20s, and then trying to party, build a family and over-do everything during my 30s15:16
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crashanddieRST38h: which probably means I'll be divorced by the time i'm 40, and broke and alcoholic by the time I'm 5015:17
ifreqcrashanddie: you die on drugs after 3015:17
RST38hcrash: You will see the light of truth and accept the tentacled One at some point, don't worry.15:17
ifreqbecause youre too tired to work without15:17
ifreqcthulhu15:18
w00tall hail cthulu15:18
ifreqhail15:18
lcukcrashanddie, to be divorced you have to find someone who will marry you in the first place :P15:19
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crashanddielcuk: which really isn't the issue15:19
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recalcatigood morning15:20
ifreqmourning15:20
lcuksure it is, if you cant find a good lady, you cant get divorced and all your plans are screwed :D15:20
crashanddielcuk: i make a fair amount of money and am not afraid to spend it, plus, I travel a lot which means she can have the poolboy regularly15:20
RST38hlcuk: he is from the new generation, he can marry a guy15:21
crashanddieRST38h: and that15:21
ifreqRST38h: console generation?15:21
RST38hlcuk: if only to divorce him...15:21
Meizirkki~botsnack15:21
infobotMeizirkki: thanks15:21
RST38hifreq: no, some other one, I could not quite figure out which one15:21
RST38hifreq: At some point they stopped marking these with letters15:21
lcukRST38h, lol but that brings other considerations, cos seb would be the fem in the relationship lol15:22
ifreqRST38h: yeh ill join on this brainstorm. Im 30+ so it makes me old gen too :/15:22
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crashanddielcuk: I thought the one bringing in the money was the man? In that case, you're the bitch ;)15:22
RST38hThat was a touche15:23
ifreqI thought these days both woman and man bring money to the kitchen table.15:23
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ifreqatleast here, well.. too old to figure out this stuff anymore.15:24
lcukcrashanddie, theres more to life than money15:24
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recalcatiyesterday I've installed scratchbox, but without creating the user with -u .  Then I made some awful chmod modification on /scratchbox directory.  Two question:  if I rm -rf /scratchbox I'm ok?  If I do sudo sh ./maemo-scratchbox-install_X.X.sh -u user I can install scratchbox to another path or /scratchbox is mandatory ? thx15:25
lcuk(tho a few million squid wouldnt go amiss)15:25
crashanddiethat hungry?15:25
crashanddienot sure it's worth that much after a couple weeks15:25
wazd_http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/omweather-0-3-preview-and-support/15:26
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JaffaAnyone know if there's a bug open for dpkg/HAM breakage when rootfs gets full and/or rootfs full problems?15:28
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esaym153is their anyway to change the amount of saved history in .ash_history?15:30
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Anunakinj #pinguino15:39
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SmokeyD1Hey people. I am thinking about buying the Nokia N900. I am a long time Linux fan and user and do have quite some experience with it. Is it realistic to think that I could update the software of my Nokia N900 later on if there is a new Maemo version for instance?15:41
SpeedEvilMaybe.15:41
SpeedEvilThere are a couple of issues.15:41
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SpeedEvilThere are large closed-source bits of the UI, and backporting those would be solely at nokias whim.15:42
SpeedEvilThe next model is supposed to have capacitive input, and a multitouch screen.15:42
SpeedEvilIf the UI is based on these to a large degree, it would be very difficult to backport to a singletouch device.15:42
recalcatiSpeedEvil: what does it mean next model? When it will be available (in Italy) ?15:43
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JaffaSmokeyD1: There are efforts like http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer to build a fully functional alternative operating system15:43
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SpeedEvilOn the other hand - Mer is the open-source 'version' - that's likely to get a lot more polished when the n900 gets delivered to lots of users15:43
SpeedEvilrecalcati: the next model dates is not public. I'd expect under a year.15:43
SmokeyD1SpeedEvil: ok, cool. didn't know there were large closed-source parts. Does make sense though that Nokia wont open up all parts of the OS since that might take a way their competitive edge15:44
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SpeedEvilrecalcati: but it might be 6 months, or 18.15:44
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recalcatiSo, during 2010, ..15:44
recalcatiSo I'll buy the actual.15:44
SpeedEvilOr even never.15:44
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SpeedEvilRegrettably, there is always newer shinier hardware on the horizon.15:44
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recalcatiI have to book it, because is not yet available in Italy15:44
SpeedEvilAt some point, you've got to put down your cash.15:44
SpeedEvilrecalcati: Not anywhere. (the n900)15:45
SmokeyD1indeed. I am not in a hurry to buy a new phone, but it sounds so interesting the N900. Would you recommend it, or would you recommend waiting untill the next version?15:45
* Stskeeps likes the N900 a lot.15:45
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SpeedEvilPersonally, I'm buying a n900. (maybe - if nokia accept my order with abuses of discount coupons)15:46
SmokeyD1I think I will buy it through my phone operator. My contract is about to end anyway so I can get it cheaper if I buy it with a new phone contract15:47
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recalcatimy company put down the cash :-)15:47
SmokeyD1Some operators are already advertising the N90015:47
recalcatiSmokeyD1: about?15:47
SpeedEvilSmokeyD1: directly?15:48
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SpeedEvilSmokeyD1: Is it available when you go to the operators - vodafone.it say - website - or is it mobile phone shops?15:48
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andre___hmm, didn't we have a wiki page about using /opt? anybody having the URL?15:48
Myrttilcuk: your list of donators is lacking a name ;-)15:48
SmokeyD1SpeedEvil: both here. But they say it is being ordered. They don't actually have it there yet, but they do already advertise with it15:49
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AndrewFBlackNot naming names but there is a newer person on tmo and every time I see one of his many posts I just want to slap him15:49
SpeedEvilSmokeyD1: Interesting.15:50
* RurouniJones taps SpeedEvil on the shoulder and gives thanks for the abusive discount program ;)15:51
SpeedEvilnot me.15:51
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RurouniJonesHowver, should it be honoured, it netted Nokia 2 purchases instead of one.15:51
SpeedEvilThough I mentioned in the thread how to get free phone service in the UK for a year15:51
lcukMyrtti o_O you are right actually15:52
X-FadeWe see free N900 +300min/600SMS month for 17,50 + 9 for unlimited internet.15:53
SpeedEvilOr one purchase instead of zero for me.15:53
X-Fadeeuro that is.15:53
SpeedEvilhow long contrat?15:53
X-Fade2 years, I think15:53
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mikhasandre___,  I refer to http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify/blobs/master/README regarding /opt ....15:54
SpeedEvilX-Fade: that's pretty good15:54
andre___mikhas, ah, okay. i now linked to the Developer Guide instead15:54
X-FadeIt is very close to N97 in pricing.15:54
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lcukMyrtti, i have updated now, i thought i had put both your names there, and there were a few others missing too :$16:02
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lcukthanks for reminder16:02
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lardman|homefiferboy: ping16:02
fiferboylardman|home: pong16:02
lardman|homeI am in need of your treeview greatness16:02
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lardman|home;)16:02
mgedminhttp://pastie.org/663411 <-- sizes of all installed packages, including core os16:03
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lcukMyrtti, ive put a bytesize video of the engine together, and i fly through my presentation that i shouldv made at the summit too16:03
mgedminposix-locales is huge16:03
* lcuk curses technical difficulties16:03
fiferboyI can try to help, what's the issue?16:03
lardman|homeIf I listen for the row-deleted signal, how can I work out what was in the row before it was deleted? E.g. so I can then remove that item from the screen?16:03
X-Fademgedmin: Is this compressed size on disk?16:04
Myrttilcuk: ♥16:04
lardman|homefiferboy: I can't remember which example I was following, but it doesn't seem to get an iter passed to the callback fn16:04
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lardman|homefiferboy: or was I following the wrong example?16:04
lcukMyrtti, the presentation software runs sooooo nicely on n90016:05
lcuki really wanted to show everyone at the summit :$16:05
fiferboylardman|home: the row-deleted signal passed a GtkTreePath which you can convert to an iter...16:05
fiferboyBut isn't the content of that row already gone at that point?16:05
lardman|homeok, but does the thing it points to still exist?16:05
IcanCUhow come this channel is so busy?16:05
StskeepsIcanCU: active community16:06
IcanCUyeah16:06
IcanCUis maemo more fun then iphone?16:06
lardman|homeof course16:06
lcukhell yeah16:06
javispedronever doubt that.16:06
w00tmaemo > *16:06
IcanCUconvince me16:06
lcukand its more open and expandable and capable16:06
IcanCU( i don't have an iphone)16:06
fiferboylardman|home: It seems it does not16:06
lcukyou can develop using the same toolkits as on the desktop16:06
fiferboylardman|home: "The location pointed to by path should be the location that the row previously was at. It may not be a valid location anymore."16:07
IcanCUi see16:07
lcuktry this: a 1 minute video16:07
IcanCUapps can be ported from desktop to maemo?16:07
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/user/lcukmaemo#p/a/u/2/7hGUKICDeok16:07
lcukyes16:07
lardman|homefiferboy: seems an odd thing to pass to the callback though, if it's not there anymore16:07
MyrttiIcanCU: cheesecake ponies pink plastic towboat16:07
javispedroIcanCU: we're coding for free after all, just for fun. isn't that enough?  ;)16:07
w00tyou don't need to get approval to run apps either16:07
lcuktho direct ports usually look bad16:07
w00tMyrtti: haha.16:07
w00tthat's the second time I've heard that phrase in two days.16:07
lcukbut the underlying libries can be brought in16:07
IcanCUi hope the platform will be strong16:07
fiferboylardman|home: That is true.  It must be useful in some situations where you just need to know where it was, maybe for row swapping or reordering16:07
lcukand if the ui is designed carefully you can use everywhere16:07
IcanCUhow about android?16:07
IcanCUandroid is open?16:08
javispedroandroid is java thus less fun.16:08
fiferboylardman|home: What is the scenario you are going for?  What do you want to do when a row is deleted?16:08
javispedrojava=enterprisey16:08
lardman|homeI want to remove the icon from the map16:08
lardman|homefor that contact16:08
lcuklardman is there a "before-remove" signal?16:08
lardman|homedunno, was thinking the same16:09
RST38hHeya Myrtti16:09
Myrttiohai RST38h16:09
IcanCUso all you here are developers or end users?16:10
RST38hjavis: As you are the local java guy, how about porting goddamn PhoneME and showing all these wankers their real worth? =)16:10
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lardman|homeah "Implementations of GtkTreeModel must emit row-deleted before removing the node from its internal data structures. This is because models and views which access and monitor this model might have references on the node which need to be released in the row-deleted handler."16:10
fiferboylardman|home: The obvious (but not optimal) route would be to wipe everything and re-load the still existing rows when you receive that signal16:10
lardman|homeI wonder if I can then get an iter to it16:10
RST38hjavis: As in "You whined for Java? Here is Java!"16:10
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lardman|homefiferboy: yeah, I was hoping to be reasonably optimal though ;)16:10
fiferboyFigures :)16:10
RST38hjavis: I am even willing to provide you with the drawing backend16:11
javispedroRST38h: you know the only thing missing is basically package it so that your "click .jar file and orgasm" dream works?16:11
fiferboylardman|home: You can convert the GtkTreePath to a GtkTreeIter, but you might want to check that it holds what you think it does16:11
lopzhi ;)16:11
lardman|homefiferboy: or can I just access the data directly from a TreePath?16:11
javispedrowell, to be honest, something more must be rotten in PhoneME, because no one seems interested.16:11
fiferboylardman|home: Sometimes you can.  It seems a little strange to have both options, but certain things need an iter I think16:12
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hrwjavispedro: we use phoneme on bug16:12
lardman|homefiferboy: ok16:12
hrwjavispedro: works fine16:12
javispedrothen, it's missing packaging only.16:12
hrwwould be nice if someone will finish maemo integration in OE - would give some stuff for maemo easier16:13
RST38hjavis: I can do the click thing16:14
lardman|homehrw: +116:14
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RST38hjavis: It is releatively easy16:14
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hrwbye16:14
Stskeepshrw: ask rkirti, she did a GSoC project on it16:14
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RST38hjavis: Give me a command line binary that takes jar and executes it and I will package it16:14
hrw|goneStskeeps: I know, I gave some advices16:14
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lardman|homefiferboy: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/temp/test_abook.c is my test code - it's nasty as I have no clue how the components are supposed to go together16:15
RST38hjavis: the main problem with java is that people who want it most vocally are not programmers :)16:15
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fiferboylardman|home: I'll take a look16:15
JaffaRST38h: Oh god, not you & Java again16:15
JaffaAnd you moaned about /opt discussions...16:16
RST38hjavis: So they do those endless threads, brainstorms, etc which are kinda useless unless participants can do programming16:16
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RST38hJaffa: hey I am not moaning about Java, as you can see16:16
RST38hJaffa: Just discussing packaging PhoneME for the tablet16:16
javispedroJaffa: actually, he's very interested in J2ME. I guess he wants some strip poker midlet or similar.16:16
javispedro;)16:16
* RST38h winks at javispedro16:16
RST38hWant my SimCity yes16:17
* javispedro plays simcity in gvm16:17
* javispedro won a free copy of SimCity for Palm after a class action against Palm for selling 14bpp screens as 16bpp16:17
javispedroand now Nokia is selling 16bpp screens as 24...16:18
RST38hdid Nokia get away with 12bpp screens btw?16:18
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RST38hWith early S60 devices they packaged 12bpp screens instead of 16bpp16:18
fiferboylardman|home: You might want to through an "if (gtk_list_store_iter_is_valid (model, iter))" at line 9716:18
fiferboys/through/throw/16:18
infobotfiferboy meant: lardman|home: You might want to throw an "if (gtk_list_store_iter_is_valid (model, iter))" at line 9716:18
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RST38hjavis: Where do they sell 16bpp ad 24bpp?16:19
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javispedroRST38h: "screen colors" tmo thread. multiple sources indicating 24bpp16:19
RST38hHmmm16:19
RST38hS60e5 phones all have 32bpp screen buffers. Which causes me a lot of pain BTW16:20
RST38hSo I always thought the screens where at least 24bpp, no?16:20
Stskeeps16bpp.16:20
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RST38hdumb16:20
javispedro24bpp screens? you wish16:20
StskeepsRGBA, though16:20
javispedroI am yet to see a real 24bpp lcd.16:20
RST38hAnd the dumbest part is that they do not let me switch into 16bpp mode16:21
RST38hSo, I have to do x2 copy work16:21
derfRST38h: Maybe because the controller dithers?16:21
lardman|homefiferboy: good plan16:21
RST38hjavis: Well the one I have at work (IBM made, real old) seems to do the work very well16:21
fiferboylardman|home: Have you been able to test the code?16:21
RST38hderf: Dithers how? It has 640x360 screen. It gives me 640x360 buffer. Where does it get extra pixels for dithering?16:22
lardman|homefiferboy: no, compilation error16:22
derfRST38h: I mean dithers 24-bit down to 16.16:22
fiferboylardman|home: Where?16:22
derfYou don't need extra pixels for dithering.16:22
javispedroyep. the result is quite noticeable though.16:22
ShadowJKjust cycle the pixel between 0 and 10 or whatever, fast16:22
javispedrothe m130 did dither.16:22
RST38hderf: It is not dithering then16:23
javispedroand even for 2-4 bits it was very noticeable.16:23
lardman|homefiferboy: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m4be7201f16:23
derfRST38h: Well, then I agree with you. It's dumb.16:23
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RST38hderf: more llike truncation :)16:23
lardman|homefiferboy: I've copied the build.sh script into the same dir as above16:23
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RST38hShadowJK: And how long will it live ? =)16:24
ShadowJK...16:25
RST38hVDVsx talks sense: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=352644#post35264416:25
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X-FadeRST38h: VDVsx follow up on a proposal I did on -developers. He actually takes action, which is good.16:26
RST38hX-Fade: Well, in a way16:27
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mgedminX-Fade: re your earlier question -- that script sums the size of files as visible in ls -l16:30
X-Fademgedmin: Ok, that means that actual size can be quite off.16:30
mgedmintotally16:31
X-Fademgedmin: 1000 small files might show up as 0KB, but they actually use quite a lot ;)16:31
mgedmindu -x / gives me over 400 megs in the 260 meg filesystem16:31
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mgedmins/260/230/16:31
infobotmgedmin meant: du -x / gives me over 400 megs in the 230 meg filesystem16:31
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javispedrogood compression ratio.16:32
javispedrowell, average.16:32
mgedmincan I rely on st_blocks and st_blocksize on ubifs?16:32
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mgedminwait, st_blocks is always in 512b units; st_blksize is unrelated16:33
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mgedminbut du uses st_blocks and it clearly lies16:33
mgedminwhich is why I decided to go with st_size16:33
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mgedminanother very confusing thing: after upgrading vim that optified away 17 megs' worth of files my free space grew from ~0 to ~5 megs free16:34
mgedminthen, later, after reboot my free space suddenly grew from ~0 to ~26 megs free16:34
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mgedminso I've no clue how ubifs manages free space16:34
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X-Fadeprobably lazy GC ?16:35
javispedro(i assume like jffs2) there's a gc process on boot16:35
mgedminthat's what I think too16:36
mgedmincan the gc be triggered manually from a shell?16:36
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jeremiahWhat am I supposed to make of http://www.maemoproject.com/ ?16:42
X-Fadejeremiah: too late16:42
SpeedEviljeremiah: butter16:42
SpeedEviljeremiah: you churn it in a cask for an hour, and you get butter out.16:42
jeremiahLate butter. Okay16:42
jeremiahFair enough.16:43
X-Fadejeremiah: Was a contest where you could win a N900.16:43
jeremiahokay. Well, I don't feel like I missed anything then since I've already 'won' one.16:43
jeremiah:)16:43
X-FadeBut that 'clip' you see there is part of a bigger N900 movie.16:44
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* mgedmin has 26 free megs this morning -- now has 9 megs16:45
jeremiahX-Fade: Pretty cool actually.16:45
* mgedmin didn't install anything, but upgraded a few packages16:45
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jeremiahI have been staring at the empty room for a bit16:45
RST38hreboot16:45
RST38hknown issue16:45
mgedminah, /var/cache/apt/archives isn't cleared16:45
mgedminback to 12 megs now16:45
mgedminthis is fun and unpredictable16:46
X-Fadejeremiah: The movie has some really cool animations. Very matrix style..16:46
RST38hactually it is a different issue16:46
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jeremiahIt takes a while to get started though, or I haven't found a trick for it.16:46
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* mgedmin doesn't get what lardman is trying to achieve16:47
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RST38hnirvana?16:48
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mgedminit sounds like you're listening to change notifications from a model and replaying them back on the same model, causing fun and exciting infinite recursion, lardman16:48
mgedminam I missing something?16:49
mgedminor are you trying to keep two different tree models in sync?16:49
mgedmin(if so, why?)16:49
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mgedminhehe eyes-widget is optified!16:50
mgedminsaves 16K !16:50
mgedmineyes-widget is the best widget ever16:50
RST38hActually I have to optify AlmosttTI16:51
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RST38hThe only problem there is the necessity to keep separate postinst/postrm files for Maemo4 and Maemo516:51
mgedminwhat do your postinst/rm scripts do?16:52
RST38hwait, I lied16:52
X-FadeRST38h: You can optify in maemo4 too16:52
RST38hNot the postinst/postrm, the Makefiles, they do install16:52
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RST38hX-Fade: Yes, but what happens on actual user tablets which do not have opt?16:52
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RST38hX-Fade: Will this work for them?16:52
X-FadeRST38h: yes16:52
X-FadeRST38h: opt is on rootfs there.16:53
RST38hX-Fade: I will try it then, good idea =)16:53
X-FadeRST38h: That is why optify is in diablo extras-devel too.16:53
RST38hwell I will optify by hand...Just need to move the data away16:54
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javispedrosee how they are marketizing the gadget to themselves?16:56
javispedrohttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=353827#post35382716:56
javispedrono need for even the marketing department to actually invent the lies!16:56
RST38hjavis: oh my god16:57
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* RST38h feels like he has just looked at a bunch of aliens through a telescope16:57
javispedroRST38h: and that's not the worst I've heard, but the first one in English though.16:58
RurouniJoneshttp://pastie.org/663474 <- My first piece of python code ever written. Is this a vaguely sensible way to layout a simple app? (Having foudn out fixed positioning is baaaad :p ).16:58
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javispedroRST38h: btw, as for conditional optification I just read /etc/maemo_release and put an "if" in the debian/rules file.16:58
RST38hjavis: Oh I see stuff like this in Russian from time to time but avoid going to their nesting places16:58
javispedrobut as said you can just let it optificate for diablo and it'll work16:59
javispedroaw.16:59
javispedroI forgot to ask for chinook maemo-optify16:59
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wazd_LOOOOL17:01
wazd_RST38h: you gonna cry :D17:01
wazd_RST38h: http://www.flagship.nokia.com/17:02
wazd_RST38h: find moscow17:02
lardmanre17:02
mgedminRurouniJones: on a desktop I've found glade to be much nicer than manual widget construction and positioning17:02
wazd_RST38h: and then find a photo with 3 blue screens with text17:02
mgedminon maemo, dunno -- it probably doesn't support hildon widgets17:02
wazd_RST38h: and read it :D17:02
lcukwazd_, time at uk store is also wrong17:02
RurouniJonesmgedmin: glade....oohkay, I'll add that to my reading list17:02
mgedminit's a WYSIWIG gui construction tool that stores the layout as an xml file17:03
mgedminI like your code, btw17:03
mgedminexcept box.set_spacing (35) <--- space in front of ( is ugly and inconsistent with the rest17:03
mgedminand I see a few commas with no spaces after them17:04
lcuk"what does earth mean"17:04
RST38hwazd: open until 11:0017:04
lcukmgedmin, space in front is gnu style isnt it17:04
wazd_RST38h: http://i019.radikal.ru/0910/2c/5459d4c72f0c.png17:04
javispedrowazd_: I hope you translate it for us cause it seems like a sw error :)17:04
lcukfor c at least17:05
RurouniJonesRighto. I am not sure of python conventions.17:05
RST38hwazd: So, what do I do to this thing? =)17:05
mgedminlcuk: python this is! http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ all bow before17:05
wazd_RST38h: wrong photo :)17:05
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* mgedmin wonders why he's switched to yoda-grammar17:05
RST38hwazd: oh shit17:05
lcukmgedmin, at least with python things are indented correctly17:05
mgedmin:)17:05
javispedrowhaaaaaaaaaat does it saaaaaaay17:05
RurouniJonesOooo that is a useful link. Thanks mgedmin17:05
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RST38hjavis: it says "We have used the automated translation engine from Finnish to Russian and messed up"17:06
javispedrohehe17:06
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RST38hat least it is not shown in cp1252, like stuff printed on some Windows CDs...17:06
mgedminRurouniJones: you know what, that's probably the nicest pygtk window construction code I've ever seen17:06
javispedroalways fun stuff.17:06
mgedmineverybody tends to put all the widgets and boxes in a single large function, which quickly becomes messy17:07
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RurouniJonesWell, I did use Hermes as a guide17:07
RurouniJonesminus all the fiddly class stuff.17:07
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mgedminah, I haven't read Hermes's code17:07
RurouniJonesSince I don't quite grok that yet.17:07
mgedminnice job17:07
mgedminlearning by example rules17:07
RST38hmgedmin: The alternative is to put all widgets and boxes into multiple small functions that quickly become messy17:07
RurouniJonesLets not forget all the annoying questions I asked in here over the last week17:07
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RurouniJonesWhich wre graciously answered.17:08
lcukmaemo is nice like that :)17:08
javispedrofinally SOMEONE put up a full dmesg17:08
javispedrohttp://qwerty12.qole.org/dmesgb4script.txt17:08
javispedro~qwerty12++17:08
javispedronow, count the USB OTG references there.17:09
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RST38hmhmm...this "QA system" penalizes people who frequently update their apps17:09
slonopotamus~qwerty12++17:10
slonopotamuswhat that does?17:10
qwerty12_N810Makes me rich17:10
RST38hincrements qwerty's home directory by 1MB17:10
RST38hdeleting files in advance17:10
slonopotamus~qwerty12=6553617:10
RST38h++(~qwerty) will first increment size, then delete files17:10
mgedminjavispedro: 317:11
javispedrothanks mgedmin. now call in the usb experts ;)17:11
mgedminrst, if ~ is overloaded to delete files, then ++~querty will first delete then increment17:11
mgedminyou want ~++qwerty17:11
RST38hyea, in certain languages17:11
mgedminALL USB EXPERTS GATHER HERE17:11
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mgedminjavispedro: your turn now17:12
* javispedro hides17:12
* mgedmin counts to 1017:12
JaffaRurouniJones: I agree with mgedmin - very nice.17:12
slonopotamuswhat is the order of execution in ++~++qwerty~++~?17:12
mgedminundefined, which means the c++ compiler is allowed to blow up your house17:13
wazd_javispedro: it says "Good company software on for any less infuence us them, about vision some. Best accept leave on boss, by 2 that intervewing. On team that mistakes all."17:13
SpeedEviljavispedro: OTG references are irrelevant.17:13
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RurouniJonesWell it is dead simple, I am sure I will munge it up when I try and do more things. I still need to understand the way Hermes does it using a GUI class. I come from a webdev background. Never done GUI apps before17:13
lcukwazd_, nice - was that in a fortune cookie?17:13
mgedminSpeedEvil: please clarify17:13
SpeedEviljavispedro: The issues are: Is the USB port connected to a device that can do host or OTG mode.17:13
javispedroSpeedEvil: I was hoping this could solve that.17:14
SpeedEviljavispedro: If it is, can that port not be used for any reason.17:14
wazd_javispedro: add wide tense variations to it :D17:14
javispedrowazd_: hehe. automated translation mess :)17:14
SpeedEvilThe absolute simplest way to test this is to find out how to set the port to host mode, do that.17:14
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SpeedEvilThen connect a USB device to the port with external power, and see what happens17:14
* slonopotamus would be really happy if all 'unspecified behaviours' were abort()17:15
javispedroSpeedEvil: well, at least we know that musb_hdrc is being in use, and that it recognises a single usb otg mode controller.17:15
SpeedEviljavispedro: ah - the fact that there is one controller may be promising.17:15
SpeedEviljavispedro: As long as it can be configured to do host mode without the external wiring - I'd be very surprised if this wasn't the case.17:16
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SpeedEvilThe remaining issue is hardware bugs for some reason that impact this and that have not been fixed.17:16
javispedroecho host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode17:16
javispedro(same as n810 I think)17:16
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SpeedEvilI can't think of any bugs that would do this - but nokias engineers may be more inventive than me.17:17
ShadowJKMy current idea of it is: [musb controller] - [phy] - [port]. It's almost certain that no power would be provided outward. We know that the controller can be set to host mode from software. We know that the port is not OTG. We don't know if the phy can be set to host mode from software. There's talk on tmo about a "test mode" setting on the phy which could potentially make it switch to host mode. There is a driver package on tmo waiting for testers. Nob17:17
ShadowJKody has tested last time I checked.17:17
SpeedEvilThere is - typically - no seperate phy chip17:17
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SpeedEvilThe phy is integrated into the SoC17:17
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SpeedEvilI'd be astonished if this wasn't the case in this case.17:18
SpeedEvilHmm.17:18
SpeedEvilI suppose it's possible that stuff like the USB video switching may screw this up.17:18
javispedroUSB video ?17:18
SpeedEvilThe video out comes out of the USB connector I assume?17:18
javispedrono17:18
SpeedEvilOh - or is that the 3.5mm17:18
SpeedEvilah17:18
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javispedroit comes from the headphones connector17:18
javispedroyep17:18
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SpeedEvilthen the pins should - pretty much (the USB data pins) should pretty much go direclty from the SoC to the socket, with only an ESD protection thingy in between.17:19
SpeedEvilThere won't be a seperate phy17:19
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SpeedEvilIt's not impossible the SoC might have an external USB disable - which is active when there is no power - but I've never seen that sort of thing.17:20
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SpeedEvilI need to work out which SoC this is and pull the datasheet I suppose, if I can.17:20
ShadowJKomap 3530 iirc17:21
javispedroif you can, this is TI we're talking about.17:21
javispedroif you can, send it to me too :)17:21
RST38hOMAP3 data is kinda public isn't it?17:21
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javispedrowell, i've not seen anything comparable to the pxa datasheets I used to have.17:22
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SpeedEvilOne wrinkle might be that to be a USB host, you need to connect two 15K resistors on the D pins to ground. This may not be done.17:23
SpeedEvilBut on an external hub - that's a couple of moments to fix17:23
SpeedEvil(but again, I'd expect these to be integrated into the SoC's on-chip PhY)17:24
SpeedEvilerr - phy17:24
javispedrobut this would assume they actively tried to disable it.17:24
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SpeedEviljavispedro: not really17:24
javispedro"forgetting" both resistors..17:24
SpeedEviljavispedro: It could simply mean that because it doesn't have host mode - they haven't populated the board, or it even doesn't have the resistors. It's shave $.01ish off the device17:24
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SpeedEvil(it won't only be resistors - they need to be switcable, or it's not usable in device mode)17:25
javispedrothat goes back to my "they tried to finish disabiling it" point ;)17:25
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SpeedEvilWell - not quite - if you're not supporting host mode - that descision has been made - at the time you're changing the PCB and enclosure to go from a OTG connector to miniB - you would logically look at what else shoud be removed to reduce cost. 5V PSU, ...17:26
javispedrowell.17:27
javispedroso what would happen if somewhere were to enable host in the musb_hdrc driver  and plugged in a self powered hub?17:27
SpeedEvilBut - this is a 3 min test with a device.17:27
SpeedEviljavispedro: 'new USB thingy plugged in, ...'17:27
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SpeedEvilas with any other device17:28
javispedrosorry.17:28
javispedroI meant,17:28
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SpeedEvillinux box17:28
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javispedroas "host" of the hub.,17:28
SpeedEviljavispedro: It depends.17:28
SpeedEviljavispedro: some self-powered hubs do not recognise an unpowered host17:28
SpeedEvilSome do.17:29
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javispedroI guess the question any plausible tester would ask himself is "will it fry my $600 things"17:29
SpeedEvilI am quite confident that it wouldn't.17:29
SpeedEvilBut of course...17:29
mgedminah, but will you give me a replacement n900 if your confidence proves unwarranted?17:29
SpeedEvilthat was the ...17:29
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* mgedmin is quite willing to experiment on the loan device after he buys his own n90017:30
mgedminI've got a USB power injector I've used with my 770 at home17:30
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javispedromgedmin: and you're in dev program, so that should be "soon" (TM)17:31
mgedmina month or two17:31
lcuktake usb cables to nearby nokia store and test there17:32
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mgedminalso, keesj gave me a usb female-to-female converter at the previous summit17:32
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lcukmgedmin, was it at the summit or linuxtag17:33
lcuki remember him having a little box of goodies :D17:33
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qwerty12_N810lcuk: leenuxtag?17:33
mgedminone of those, yes17:33
mgedminprobably linuxtag17:33
lcuklol qwerty12_N810 yes, leeeenuckstag17:34
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RurouniJonesone more possibly stupid question before I go. Are there any recommended libraries over and above the default stuff for reading/writing flat datafiles? (I am mainly interested in the reading bit)17:34
RurouniJonesin Python that is17:35
X-Fademgedmin: Yeah one of these works nicely: http://communitizer.blogspot.com/2008/04/self-charging-n810.html17:35
mgedminRurouniJones: there's a csv module in the stdlib17:36
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mgedminI dunno what you mean exactly by "flat datafile"17:36
RurouniJonesNot a database. format currently undecided. csv, xml, whatever17:36
RurouniJonesbut if there is a csv mod in stdlib I'll probably use that17:36
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mgedminthere are a bunch of xml parsers in the stdlib, which is a problem since you have to decide which one to use17:37
mgedminxml.etree.ElementTree is the newest and probably best17:37
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mgedminhow complete is PyMaemo?17:37
mgedmindid they remove any modules to save space?17:37
RST38hTime to write / cleanup script17:37
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* mgedmin sees /usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload/ossaudiodev.so and decides that they didn't17:38
lizardomgedmin: will will find all standard modules there17:38
lizardos/will/you/17:38
infobotlizardo meant: mgedmin: you will find all standard modules there17:38
RurouniJonesAll I need is CSV reading and a bit of randomness. stdlib csv willl do the trick afink :)17:38
mgedminimport csv, random17:38
* mgedmin loves random.choice() -- best method ever17:38
RurouniJonesGroovy, more python reading for the train tomorrow17:40
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mgedminshort train trip17:42
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recalcatiscratchbox is installed, now I'm getting the SDK.17:42
RurouniJonesNa, I have dinveintopython as well17:42
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RurouniJonesalthough reading it on a phone screen is hell17:43
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mgedminrandom_cell = random.choice(random.choice(list(csv.reader(open('file.csv')))))17:43
mgedminnow you know everything you need17:43
mgedminwhat phone?  not the n900?:17:43
RurouniJonesNo, normal jap phone.17:44
mgedmindive into python ought to look gorgeous on the n900 screen17:44
RurouniJonesThe jap phone can actually read PDF landscape but it can't open a 1.2MB PDF file17:44
mgedminI sometimes think I want to ditch fbreader in favour of microb, but then I rememebr microb has no way to remember your last position17:44
RurouniJonesI might try splitting it into multiple small riles17:45
crashanddiemgedmin: sure it does17:45
crashanddiemgedmin: it's called anchors and bookmarks!17:45
RST38hreally?17:45
mgedmincrashanddie: vertical position inside a single html file?17:45
crashanddieyup17:45
* mgedmin does not believe17:45
RST38hAnd do you suggest use to manually insert anchor into wherever we stop reading the html file?17:45
mgedminoh, anchors17:45
RST38hs/use/us17:45
crashanddieRST38h: nope, simple python script that recognises paragraphs17:46
mgedmininserting an anchor for very paragraph doesn't scale17:46
mgedminand doesn't save me if my n900 crashes because it ooms or something17:46
RST38hOk, so now I am supposed to write a simple python script to remember where I stopped reading17:46
crashanddieplus with some javascript you can get page-up/down in finger mode, or scrolling17:46
mgedminfbreader saves position automatically every 30 seconds (if the position changed since last save)17:46
mgedminspeaking of microb and javascript: ANGER!17:47
mgedminmicrob doesn't let apps see keyboard events17:47
mgedminit starts google searches or something instead17:47
RST38hfile a bug17:47
mgedminmeh, "works as per spec" or something17:47
RST38hof course but it will be educational17:47
mgedminand my karma would increase17:47
mgedminmhm....17:47
RST38hthat too, although at this point I would rather prefer those bugs ot fixed17:48
RST38hs/ot/got17:48
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dimsuzhi guys! if i buy n810 will i be able to stay uptodate with maemo on it? i.e. can i get n900 content inside n810?17:50
mgedmindimsuz: nope17:50
dimsuzpretty new to this devices and their contents17:50
mgedminn900 has more powerful hardware17:50
dimsuzi see. but what about hardware?17:50
dimsuzoops17:51
mgedminthere are no official plans to port the n900 os to older devices17:51
dimsuzsoftware i mean17:51
mgedmina community port (mer) is planned, but it will not have all the new apps17:51
Stskeeps`mer17:52
mgedmin~mer?17:52
infobotfrom memory, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer17:52
Stskeepserr.. yeah17:52
dimsuzwhat about APIs? i'm mainly interested in writing Qt/KDE apps, but I think that n900 is too long to wait (here in russia) and it might be too expensive ($750?)17:52
mgedminthere is a qt port for the n810, I think17:52
Stskeepsdimsuz: we have maemo5 qt on mer17:52
w00tmaemo-qt is available on mer17:52
mgedminand I've seen people running kde apps in a chroot on n8x0s17:52
w00t.. what he said17:52
mgedminthe application style differs, btw17:53
RST38hdimsuz: You won;t be able to run Maemo5 but you probably will be able to develop Qt apps. Qt for Maemo4 already exists17:53
RST38hdimsuz: You will have problems developing apps that look the same as Maemo5 apps though17:53
dimsuzhmm. so I might get involved in mer+qt, but only for maemo5 based devices? i.e. n900?17:54
dimsuzsorry if i sound dumb, i may not get something :)17:55
w00tmer is not just for n90017:55
mgedminyou can get involved wherever you want ;)17:55
StskeepsRST38h: http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-image-editor/spacic17:55
dimsuzhehe.17:55
dimsuzmaemo5 and mer are different disttributions, right?17:56
* dimsuz feels he should read more of wiki's and return :)17:56
Stskeepsdimsuz: yes17:56
w00tdimsuz: see http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/About17:56
Stskeepsbut we try not to diverge too much17:56
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dimsuzwow, mer looks interesting.17:58
w00t:)17:58
dimsuzit is gtk based per default, right? but as you said there's a qt version?17:58
Stskeepswe'll have two tracks, mer 1.0 (fremantle based), mer 2.0 (harmattan, but that won't go on N8x0's i don't think..)17:59
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w00tyou might be interested in #mer here also.. perhaps more relevant to talk there directly18:00
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JaffaX-Fade: more unintended "promotion unlocked" emails?18:03
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JaffaX-Fade: URL still incorrect in them, BTW18:04
X-FadeJaffa: Should not be happening?18:04
JaffaX-Fade: Got ones for vim 15 mins ago18:04
JaffaCould just be delays in the system18:05
X-FadeJaffa: Probably mail queue.18:05
* Jaffa nods18:05
X-FadeJaffa: It was spamming quite badly ;(18:05
Jaffaheh18:05
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: btw, python doesn't ship w/ n900s18:11
mgedminah!18:11
timeless_mbpso, the dependency you've added is incredibly expensive18:11
mgedminouch18:11
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mgedminis there a python-minimal?18:12
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Jaffazerojay: Does "Classic Gaming Wallpapers" use /opt, btw?18:15
mgedminyes, Jaffa18:15
JaffaCool18:15
Jaffazerojay: mgedmin answered if you do a /last much later18:15
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mgedminmy xchat has no /last18:15
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timeless_mbpfwiw, i think the focus bug is filed and fixed (dunno when it gets shipped), and yes, it annoys us too18:17
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JaffaX-Fade: Hmm. http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/vim/7.2-0maemo5/ isn't showing the XB-Maemo-Icon-26, but I'm sure I saw it going in to the package.18:27
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X-FadeJaffa: Icon indexer is a separate process.18:28
fiferboyJaffa: The icons shows in the app manager18:29
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X-FadeJaffa: Let me see if it is still running.18:29
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timeless_mbpPackage karma18:31
timeless_mbp0 out of 1018:31
timeless_mbpJaffa / X-Fade : why the green bar?18:32
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X-Fadetimeless_mbp: We like green, green is _the_ hot thing atm.18:33
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timeless_mbpheh18:33
Jaffafiferboy: Yeah, I thought I'd seen it (when I installed it ;-))18:35
* Jaffa does test his stuff (well, mgedmin's ;-))18:35
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Woolyhey guys, unrelated question here, but does anyone know of a decent dedicated hosting company?18:41
jeremiahWooly: What are you going to host?18:42
jeremiahJust html?18:42
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Woolyruby18:42
jeremiahIf you want a VPS, I recommend linode.18:42
WoolyRoR18:42
jeremiahThey are awesome18:42
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jeremiahFor RoR stuff you may find The Engine Yard useful18:42
jeremiahNever used them myself though.18:43
jeremiah(I write perl)18:43
WoolyEngine Yard is on my list of people to look at :D18:43
WoolyI want to be able to run a git server on there too18:43
jeremiahLook at Linode too - they offer a complete OS, like debian, for less than $2018:44
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jeremiaha month18:44
jeremiahI have used them for over a year and they are really, really great.18:44
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Woolyjeremiah: awesome, thanks :)18:47
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jeremiah:)18:49
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Woolyjeremiah: out of interest, what do you use your linode VPS for?18:51
jeremiahI host some personal stuff, I run a planet for Nordic FOSS, writing cgi stuff, etc.18:53
jeremiahhttp://fnoss.org/new/18:54
jeremiahFor example18:54
Woolycool thanks :)18:55
jeremiah:)18:55
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lcuko_O "Unable to receive or send new messages"18:57
lcuk"device storage full"18:57
lcuk"remove data to free memory"18:57
wazd_Russia. Can't. Accept. Donations.18:57
w00tI totally misparsed that as "remove data storage to free memory"18:57
wazd_What the fucking fuck?!18:57
wazd_Am I cursed or something?!18:58
w00twazd_: sup?18:58
Stskeepswazd_: cant accept paypal in .dk. :P18:58
qwerty12_N810lcuk: This is the part where you have to make a heart-wrenching decision (for you, anyway): Naked pictures of Dot or messages?18:58
w00to_018:58
lcuklol18:58
lcukwazd_, i didnt know you were actually solidly involved with omweather (thought it was vlads baby)18:59
lcukbut the donation thing said to give money directly to russia which made me laugh18:59
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javispedrolcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33205 seems everyone thinks the device sucks :P19:00
lcuk:( sorry wazd19:01
lcukCurrently PayPal accounts in Russia are only able to send payments. This recipient is not eligible to receive funds.19:01
lcuki also tried19:01
lcukjavispedro, yeah i thought that too19:01
lcukbut it was middle of the night19:01
lcukstart filling stuff in19:01
Woolyqwerty12_N810: who is Dot?19:01
lbt_Wooly: you a ruby hacker then?19:02
qwerty12_N810Wooly: Dot from Eastenders...19:02
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Woolyqwerty12_N810: You made me sick in my mouth19:02
qwerty12_N810Wooly: lcuk is the one with the pics!19:02
Woolylbt_: just starting out :D19:02
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lbt_ah.. me too (somehow, sometime)19:03
Woolylcuk has a fetish for raisins19:03
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wazd_ôöá ûñêóö øå19:03
wazd_aw, screw it19:03
Stskeepswazd_: sent that mail to the guy yet btw? ?P19:04
wazd_I surrender, take my soul, Satan19:04
qwerty12_N810wazd_: done19:05
wazd_Stskeeps: yep, but no reply :(19:05
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wazd_Stskeeps: a week ago or so19:05
Stskeepsk19:05
Stskeepsgive it time i guess19:05
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javispedrolcuk: well, convince someone to post anything there and "bump" the topic :)19:07
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penguinbait~bump19:25
lcukyes19:25
penguinbaitSorry I didn't have anything useful to contribute19:26
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penguinbaitlooks like we posted at the exact same time19:28
javispedrolcuk: well, suddenly, two bumps lol19:28
penguinbaitlcuk do you have 2 n900's?19:28
lcukno19:28
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penguinbaitis there video calling between 810 and n90019:29
penguinbait?19:29
lcuki dunno19:29
lcuki cant even tell on my sdk because its ancient sw19:29
wazd_oh, CSKA vs Manch19:29
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lcuktimeless, i know you dont normally get involved in tmo, but whats your favorite things about the n90019:33
lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=35416019:33
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Ceron^lcuk: is it possible to get a developer discount?19:34
Ceron^:D19:34
howitzer`Just out of curiousity. What would be easiest to port: Maemo to an Androidphone or Android to a Maemophone?19:35
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Stskeepshowitzer`: we had android on n8x0 because n8x0 is open*19:35
penguinbaitandroid to a maemo phone19:35
Stskeepsas in, you can flash your own kernel and orotfs19:35
Stskeepsrootfs19:35
Stskeepsyou can't do that easily on a androidphone19:35
lcukdidnt they first go out with rootshell available19:36
Stskeepswell, telnetd..19:36
howitzer`Ah, cheers :)19:36
Stskeepsbut that doesnt mean kexec/booting your own kernel19:36
Stskeepshowitzer`: and n900 is just as open19:36
lcukand isnt android linux underneath19:36
Stskeepsyeah, but it doesn't mean you can replace it :/19:36
qwerty12_N810lcuk: Wasn't intended to and they were just as quick to close that hole19:36
lcukcant you just strip the ui and rebuild with x1119:36
Stskeepsthe best thing about maemo is that you can get rid of it19:37
lcukok, how about running native x11 apps on pre19:37
Stskeepsneed a x server19:37
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timeless_mbplcuk: the browser is really the best portable browser i've ever used19:38
timeless_mbpand it really isn't because it's something i work on, it really is great19:38
lcukthen say so!19:38
lcuki know19:38
timeless_mbp(and yes, i know about the fonting/kerning issues)19:38
Stskeepsi still kinda want tear :/ but i should watch the instructions video of the browser19:38
penguinbaitI deleted my ~bump, now I can re-bump later19:38
lcukwe need to talk more about what we like19:38
aakashdno love for fennec guys :( ?19:38
timeless_mbpand the other thing i like is the audio quality of the phone19:38
timeless_mbpaakashd: why?19:38
penguinbaitI like long walks on the beach19:38
timeless_mbpthe browser engine including the fonting issues are shared w/ all geckos (microb, and fennec)19:39
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qwerty12_N810I want Tear, just because I can use the goddamn arrow keys to select a URL in the address bar19:39
howitzer`penguinbait: fast or slow?19:39
qwerty12_N810Seriously, guys19:39
lcukaakashd, fennec comes from the same stable with a slightly different orientation right now, but theres no reason it cant be included in what timeless just said19:39
GeneralAntillesaakashd, once they make it unslow. . . .19:39
Pavlovwhy is microb-engine in ld.so.conf?19:39
penguinbaitboth19:39
Pavlovand components?19:39
aakashdGeneralAntilles: its nice on the n900 :)19:39
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, you file a bug?19:39
GeneralAntillesaakashd, it's not.19:39
timeless_mbpPavlov: to make certain other apps happy19:39
lcukhey Pavlov \o19:39
Pavlovmakes xulrunner stuff exciting19:39
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: Me and Bugzilla? :)19:39
timeless_mbpyou can ask romaxa for the unhappy story if you like19:40
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, you want arrow keys or not?19:40
Pavlovtempted to auto-remove it on install :/19:40
timeless_mbpbut mostly it's because of some really annoying management complaints about dangling linking19:40
aakashdGeneralAntilles: what issues are you seeing specifically when browsing?19:40
GeneralAntillesaakashd, slow page loading, jittery scrolling.19:40
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: Well, when you put it like that...19:40
GeneralAntillesaakashd, but it wasn't installed long because of lack of optification.19:40
timeless_mbpi'm not quite sure why those people's libraries don't have proper paths to prevent the need for the ld.so.conf junk, but...19:40
lcukPavlov, i have a really short run over of the engine and showing a dynamically loaded presentation .. http://www.youtube.com/user/lcukmaemo#p/a/u/2/7hGUKICDeok19:41
aakashdGeneralAntilles: ah got it, the latest nightly builds have fixed a lot of issues concerning those things19:41
derfaakashd: Do they support <video> yet?19:41
timeless_mbplcuk: "An error occurred, please try again later." ?19:42
* timeless_mbp is pretty sure fennec builds do support video19:42
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aakashdderf: they do19:42
derfAt more than 2 fps?19:42
javispedroand they use gstreamer, thus dsp codecs?19:42
timeless_mbpderf: an advantage of not having to deal w/ nokia lawyers...19:42
Pavlovderf: we're getting fullscreen in soon19:42
timeless_mbpjavispedro: um...19:43
Pavlovand gstreamer support is in patches19:43
* timeless_mbp wonders if the gstreamer stuff landed yet19:43
* timeless_mbp didn't think it had19:43
Pavlovwon't have video enabled in fennec 1.019:43
Pavlovbut should have it on shortly after19:43
Pavlovgstreamer/fullscreen/etc enabled19:43
timeless_mbpcool, microb parity! :)19:43
GeneralAntillesI just wish Fennec could play nice with the autobuilder.19:43
javispedroor viceversa.19:43
Pavlovmake a source deb package19:43
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: step 1. upgrade the auto builder's toolchain to a less lame compiler19:44
timeless_mbp;-b19:44
Pavlovthe fremantle one is19:44
timeless_mbplcuk: why do i have an error in front of your video?19:44
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timeless_mbp(using safari, it works better in firefox)19:45
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* GeneralAntilles wishes for hot water.19:46
penguinbaithot water?19:46
GeneralAntillesYes, hot water.19:46
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howitzer`Hot rain19:47
timeless_mbphot tea with honey?19:47
penguinbaitroommate used it all?19:47
* timeless_mbp could use that19:47
GeneralAntillesThe current "hot" water temp in the building feels like about the mid 70°s.19:47
penguinbaitflorida's out of hot water?19:47
GeneralAntillesWater heater must be broked.19:47
lcuktimeless, an error?19:47
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penguinbaitshared hot water heater between multiple apartments?  that sucks19:47
timeless_mbplcuk: "An error occurred, please try again later."19:47
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGUKICDeok19:48
lcukhows that one19:48
GeneralAntillesIt's one giant ass gas-powered monstrosity from about the mid 60s.19:48
lcukthe first was from my profile page i just noticed19:48
timeless_mbpnote, it worked fine in ff3.519:48
timeless_mbpyeah, that works fine19:48
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GeneralAntillesHrm, I guess there's no way to fix the contacts phone number formatting?19:49
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp: british are ye?    tea with honey ;)19:49
timeless_mbpnah, i just like honey19:49
Xisdibik:o19:49
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: details?19:50
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timeless_mbpdo we format phone numbers at all?19:50
Xisdibika tes tto see if your really a honey lover.    Which type of honey do you like best? :)19:50
GeneralAntillesWell, technically I suppose not.19:50
GeneralAntillesI like mine (555) 555-555519:50
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GeneralAntillesand it also shouldn't give me an SMS link for home numbers.19:50
timeless_mbppersonally, having dealt w/ too many stupid phones19:50
timeless_mbpi've switched to +1555555121219:51
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I was thinking that - in the UK at least, you *can* send SMSes to landlines :-/19:51
Xisdibikive actualy gone the route of timeless19:51
Xisdibikerm timeless_mbp19:51
fralssame here in .se19:51
timeless_mbpXisdibik: timeless = me19:51
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howitzer`Isn't + the international way?19:51
timeless_mbphowitzer`: it is19:51
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp, i know, but your speaking on mbp atm ;)19:52
timeless_mbpwhich saves you from various stupid operators breaking things19:52
timeless_mbps/your/you're/19:52
howitzer`Indeed19:52
timelesseasily fixable19:52
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp, you would get along great with my friend, he corrects my use of your/you're all the time ;)19:52
timeless:)19:52
Xisdibikon second thought, is your name Henry? lol19:53
* GeneralAntilles loves open source zealots.19:53
timelessnope :)19:53
Xisdibikk just had to make sure19:53
timelessgan: as long as they shower and use proper English :)19:53
GeneralAntillesWhat's with Rise of PC Pronouns lately?19:53
timeless_mbpwhere?19:53
GeneralAntilles"s/he" is not a valid anything.19:53
timeless_mbpnokia still can't get "you" and "me" right19:54
GeneralAntillesExcept, perhaps, as a way to embarrass yourself.19:54
SpeedEvilHir19:54
timeless_mbphow could we possibly try to get pc pronouns right? :)19:54
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, just in general.19:54
GeneralAntillesBoth in Nokia-generated content and community posts.19:54
lcukGeneralAntilles, you have a device19:54
timeless_mbppersonally, i'm more bitter about kibbits and base 10 binary sizing19:54
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howitzer`There should be both "you are" and "you is".19:54
lcukand you do complain about things19:54
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timelessyou is stupid19:55
lcukplease answer this thread19:55
lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=35416019:55
SpeedEvilhowitzer`: Some of these used to exist in english19:55
fralslcuk: send one over and ill reply ;)19:55
timeless_mbplcuk: technically, i'm ineligible, i didn't get a device @ summit19:55
GeneralAntilleslcuk, timeless's non-shit strings!19:55
lcukhaha19:55
lcukbah timeless19:55
* timeless_mbp sighs19:55
lcukforget that just get adding things19:55
* timeless_mbp needs to go back to perl and progress19:55
timeless_mbplcuk: that'd require me to have a tmo account19:56
timeless_mbpi'm waiting for single signon :)19:56
SpeedEvil'ye' for example19:56
timeless_mbphere ye, here ye!19:56
lcuklol ok timeless19:56
lcukgimme a quote and ill add it19:56
SpeedEviltimeless: indeed - howver - it's rarely used in conversation19:56
timeless_mbpwritten?19:56
JaffaHmm, I've just realised why I don't like brainstorm.19:56
lcukjust here - you want "the browser works"19:56
timeless_mbpactually, it should be "hear ye, hear ye"19:57
* timeless_mbp cries19:57
lcuk<timeless_mbp> lcuk: the browser is really the best portable browser i've ever used19:57
lcuk<timeless_mbp> and it really isn't because it's something i work on, it really is great19:57
lcukthat do?19:57
GeneralAntillesHa19:57
timeless_mbplcuk: yep19:57
timeless_mbps/_mbp//19:57
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timeless_mbpg19:57
lcukk19:57
JaffaIt assumes the "idiocy of crowds" and the "race to mediocrity" are positive things; over the "opinion of experts"19:57
* timeless_mbp sighs19:57
timeless_mbpwe had a bug complaining that saving files as .se didn't do the right thing19:58
GeneralAntillesJaffa, haha19:58
timeless_mbps/se/es/19:58
infobottimeless_mbp meant: we had a bug complaining that saving files as .es didn't do the right thing19:58
timeless_mbpno explanation of what the right thing was, or where to get the .es file, but...19:58
timeless_mbpit turned out that the build being tested was kinda generally broken wrt. saving files19:58
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JaffaAnd the standard answer of "raise it in Brainstorm" is infuriating.19:59
lcukjaffa - you too :P http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=35416019:59
timeless_mbpJaffa: yeah, i don't really think brainstorm is the right answer19:59
timeless_mbpthe problem is that i don't want people from the community dictating solutions19:59
timeless_mbpif they insist on dictating, let them try in brainstorm19:59
timeless_mbpwhere someone can ignore them, or reprogram them on their own time19:59
Jaffatimeless_mbp: I'm not sure what the *question* is to which "brainstorm" is the answer.19:59
timeless_mbpi'm not sure there is one20:00
timeless_mbpexcept "how to get people to stop bothering engineers"20:00
JaffaBut then I never did, and assumed that the people who wanted it had one.20:00
timeless_mbpor "how to make people feel happy"20:00
timeless_mbpnote, at least you guys get brainstorm20:00
lcukbubble wrap20:00
timeless_mbpinternally we just get deaf ears20:00
fralsbrainstorm is an awesome word at least20:00
lcukmake a screen full of bubble wrap, and let people think they are involved20:00
timeless_mbp"what's the procedure for requesting something?" "there isn't one, you have to be a customer"20:01
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Stskeepslo pancake20:01
timeless_mbp"how long does it take customer feedback to be heard?" "a few years, minimum"20:01
pancakewhy are the repository.maemo.org/dists/{fremantle|maemo5*} repos restricted?20:01
pancakeim not able to get glib-dev or any other package for the sdk20:01
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pancakeapt-get update fails20:01
timeless_mbppancake: did you specify sdk?20:01
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pancakeyup20:02
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Stskeepspancake: repository.maemo.org/pool20:02
pancakehttp://repository.maemo.org/dists/fremantle/sdk/20:02
Stskeepsthe repos themselves shouldn't be restricted20:02
lcukyayyyy jaffa20:02
Stskeepsi think you might be experiencing a mix with the token system20:02
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pancakethe <maemo5 are working, but >=maemo5 fail with dirlisting denied20:02
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lcukhave you got a device yet Stskeeps20:02
timeless_mbphttp://repository.maemo.org/dists/fremantle/sdk/free/binary-armel/Release20:03
Stskeepsa n900? of course20:03
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timeless_mbpthat repo seems to work20:03
* w00t stalks Stskeeps for his n90020:03
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timeless_mbphttp://repository.maemo.org/dists/fremantle/sdk/free/binary-armel/Packages20:04
timeless_mbpalso works20:04
timeless_mbpjust use the sdk/free thing like apt does20:04
lcukStskeeps, the thread i am spamming :P20:04
pancakei just untarballed the sdk rootstrap, chroot into it, and type apt-get update. something is wrong, because the network works, but it gets stucked at 16% after Ignoring the first repo which checks for Release.gpg20:05
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pancake(404)20:05
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GeneralAntillescosmo, reping?20:06
pancakeafter a while i get FATAL -> could not set nonblocking flag . bad file descriptor. method http has died unexpectedly20:06
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Stskeepspancake: hmm, how does your sources list show?20:08
GAN900Actually, can we kill any references to Third Party software in the update applet string-side?20:08
Stskeepsthere was an issue with the akamai mirrors earlier20:08
timeless_mbppancake: i'd try setting up a caching proxy and point my scratchbox to it20:08
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pancakeis the default one..uhm, maybe that wifi is proxying me20:09
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pancakehttp://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0712.1/2130.html <- seems related20:12
timeless_mbppancake: well, if your kernel is broken, please don't blame us :)20:14
* timeless_mbp is very helpful20:14
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pancakemy kernel is the shipped in the n900 one20:14
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Talk awaits a person like you. Although the grammar-correcting side of you will be doing overtime...20:15
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pancakeuhm...no, the system apt works fine20:15
javispedrogrammar naaaaaaaazy it's called, you nitpicks.20:15
pancakebut using the repos in the sdk fail20:15
qwerty12_N810~burn javispedro20:15
* infobot pours gasoline all over javispedro, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze20:15
pupnikwhere did i nput adduser for n810...20:15
pupnikhi20:16
timeless_mbppancake: try replacing your version of apt :)20:16
javispedrohi pupnik20:16
qwerty12_N810pupnik: hiya, adduser is in extras-devel20:16
pupnikso violent20:16
pupnikeh ok20:16
pancakeoh :P stupid of me, i missed /dev :)20:16
pancakehttp://michael-prokop.at/blog/2007/10/27/could-not-set-non-blocking-flag/20:16
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: in activity monitor, what does wired mean? i'm guessing "can't (or don't want to) swap out"20:17
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timeless_mbp3gb of my 4gb of ram is wired here :(20:17
javispedrotime to reboot.20:18
pancakeyeah, now it works :)20:18
pancakesry for the noise20:18
* javispedro hopes for n900 stress testing videos20:19
javispedromore like destructive stress testing.20:19
javispedroany loaned n900 owner feeling lucky? >:)20:20
lcukhttp://next.nokia.fi/laitteet/n900-meetup-live-stream/20:20
qwerty12_N810javispedro: I can get you one of a Palm20:20
lcuknokia live event in the helsinki store20:20
* javispedro is busy watching n97 stress test videos20:20
Ceron^why...20:21
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wazd_ahaha, mario wallpaper :D20:21
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|Rlcuk: at what time? :)20:22
lcuknow, live20:22
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|Rlcuk: ah oops, had noscript removing the video ;)20:23
* timeless sighs20:23
* timeless kicks entourage20:23
|Rwhy are they speaking english? :P20:23
timelessso people can understand them :)20:24
RST38hweird. OmWeather died.20:24
RST38hNo longer finds any data sources20:24
timelesslcuk: why is that web page in finnish?20:25
* timeless doesn't speak finnish20:25
lcukjust watch jussi lol20:25
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javispedrotimeless: well, it's only partly finnish here20:25
lcukyour browser is being demoed :P20:25
gomiamtimeless: isn't finnish spoken like English... but backwards? ;)20:25
timelessyou mean "Share and Enjoy" ?20:25
timelessgomiam: i suppose so20:25
MeizirkkiWhy are they speaking finenglish? :D20:25
javispedroand "Live stream from the N900..."20:26
timelessbut w/o any intonation or punctuation20:26
* RST38h moos at javis by the way20:26
javispedromario wallpaper!20:26
javispedronow I understand wazd lol20:26
RST38hwhere oh where?20:26
javispedrohttp://next.nokia.fi/laitteet/n900-meetup-live-stream/20:26
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javispedrodisable noscript and watch, it's live.20:26
javispedroquick20:26
|Rzerojay will be happy haha ;)20:26
timelessmy mac is too busy to let me watch20:26
javispedroyou can play with the devices!20:27
* javispedro teleports here20:27
javispedros/here/there20:27
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RST38hjavis, should have teleported to the summit20:27
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wazd_oh!20:27
|Rhaha man wtf...20:27
wazd_DokSnes! :D20:27
|Ris nokia showing pirated Roms ?20:27
MeizirkkiO_o20:27
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javispedroman, I have to record this.20:27
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RST38h|R: Pirated roms running on somebody's open sourced emulator20:28
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RST38hEvil, pure evil20:28
wazd_javispedro: and show for your kids! :D20:28
|RRST38h: haha :)20:28
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ArkenkloEvil is open source20:28
javispedrowell, it doesn't lag that much.20:28
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javispedro(5 seconds left!)20:29
javispedrogame over20:29
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javispedrosee, drnoksnes is composited :)20:29
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Meizirkkiwho's the first to do "how many marios in the dashboard" stresstest?20:30
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|Rhaha20:30
javispedroMeizirkki: I can run 3 on N810 with each of them still playable20:30
wazd_javispedro: looks like I've made artwork just in time :)20:30
javispedrothen I have quite a bit shallow definition of "playable".20:30
javispedrowazd_, and I can't thank you enough for that!20:30
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wazd_javispedro: ah, nothing to thank for actually :) Some arranged mario sprites :D20:31
GeneralAntillestimeless, http://support.apple.com/kb/HT134220:32
wazd_I wonder how Moscow n900 meeting will look like :D20:33
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javispedrowazd_: metroid instead of mario.20:33
javispedrojoking, joking ;)20:33
RST38hwazd: Probably the same but in Russian20:33
qwerty12_N810wazd_: Imagine the people in the Helsinki ones, but with AKs20:33
Arkenkloin soviet russia, and so on and so forth20:33
wazd_javispedro: there was a game on PSX called Crazy Ivan :D20:33
MeizirkkiO_o20:33
RST38hwazd: Would be a bonus if there is Eldar's effigy to burn20:33
RST38hwazd: Actually, live Eldar will also do, for lynching etc20:34
javispedrowell, I fscked my recording of that :(20:34
javispedroneed more practice.20:34
Meizirkkiticket to what?20:34
Ceron^WTF20:34
Ceron^they are GIVING OUT n900 to ppl at altparty20:34
Ceron^as price20:34
Stskeepshehe20:34
Ceron^UNFAIR ;___;20:34
|Rindeed20:34
Meizirkkiwhat?20:34
* |R wants his frickin' n900 now :P20:35
Ceron^omg theyr giving out20:35
wazd_RST38h: I mean, will there be Jussi and urho or just a bunch of brainless retards :)20:35
* Meizirkki runs there20:35
Ceron^n900 at meetup @ helsinki flagship store20:35
Ceron^!!!!20:35
Ceron^right now20:35
RST38hNokia marketing guy who came up with violet-on-red-strips theme for Comes With Music has to be severely punished, and firing will not be sufficient for all those hurt eyes20:35
wazd_Ceron^: really?20:35
Ceron^yeh20:35
Ceron^they said they will give out prices20:35
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Ceron^in an hour or so!20:35
RST38hwazd: Bunch of brainless retards, and I suppose we will register to be among them =)20:36
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Ceron^that = n90020:36
timelesswait20:36
timelessis that stream i just watched live?20:36
Ceron^yeh20:36
timelessis it from the nokia store? can i walk in and play?20:36
Ceron^its LIVE20:36
GeneralAntillestimeless, "Live Stream"20:36
Ceron^yeh20:36
Ceron^its from helsinki flagstore20:36
Ceron^but they have INVITE only today day20:36
GeneralAntillestimeless, no, they have specific instructions to keep you out.20:36
javispedrotimeless: it seems you really didn't notice the web is partly in english ;)20:36
Ceron^so  not everyone can go there20:36
javispedroGeneralAntilles: haha20:36
lcukprizes are 2 part, first an n900 SDK on cd which they have to make an app with. then if they complete that challenge they can have a go at winning an actual device20:36
javispedroelse he will ruin the party with a comment about how font kerning sucks.20:36
timelessceron: really invite only?20:36
Ceron^yeh20:37
Ceron^:(20:37
Ceron^i tried to get invite20:37
Ceron^but they did not respond20:37
RST38hlcuk: 90% of them are probably bloggers =)20:37
RST38hlcuk: can't make shit20:37
lcukisnt that the normal requirement for an ifart app?20:37
wazd_RST38h: ooooh shit, bloggers...20:37
|Rno flagship store in Montreal, booo !20:37
javispedroRST38h: but, Gtk+ is easy to develop!20:37
GeneralAntillesRST38h, bloggers are exceptionally good at making shit. ;)20:37
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lcuki want to take a photo20:37
lcukdraw some boxes20:37
lcukand make an app20:37
lcukand im not far away20:37
javispedrolcuk: write a vb interpreter in arm20:37
* lcuk nods20:38
lcukthe parser is already there20:38
lcuki did that months ago20:38
lcuki just wrote a .frm parser too20:38
lcukfor the layouts20:38
javispedroin fact, you can take many of the ole32 and automation stuff from wine20:38
RST38hGeneral: Ok, I stand corrected =)20:38
javispedrobtw, did i mention here there was a flurry of patches about wine arm support?20:38
lcukgood20:38
RST38hPython isn't good for you? Why VB?20:39
timelessjavispedro: so we can run all of the crappy wince/winmo apps?20:39
lcukjavispedro, the presentation part of liqbase is dynamically loaded vb :$20:39
timelesssounds great, i'm looking forward to it20:39
javispedrotimeless: first step would be arm winelib20:39
* timeless kicks entourage, "stop beach balling"20:39
|Rwasn't there something special coming on the 23 ?20:39
|ROr is that just a number stock on the back of my head ...20:39
javispedroso that you get to compile a win32 app into an elf armel binary.20:39
Ceron^lcuk: soo how about a developer discount for us all20:40
timelessjavispedro: fennec-win32-armel :)20:40
javispedrolcuk: dinamically loaded? O.o20:40
javispedrotimeless: don't hope for the kerning to be any better in winelib ;)20:40
timelessjavispedro: in this case, the problem is a design issue in gecko20:40
RST38hGentlemen, could somebody tell me what Open Arena is?20:40
lcukjavispedro, parsed from the .vbp and .frm files at runtime20:40
timelessso, the kerning wouldn't improve :(20:41
* timeless asked about it20:41
lcukthe presentatino itself just gets copied over to device atm20:41
RST38h(in terms understandable by a cow of course)20:41
lcukno code running behind it tho20:41
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lcukjavispedro, http://liqbase.net/liqbase_presentation_vb.png20:41
qwerty12_N810RST38h: moo moo moo20:41
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it's an open content Q3 clone.20:41
RST38hshit, have to be careful what I wish for next time...20:41
GeneralAntillesRST38h, meaning you don't have to buy the Quake 3 content to play it.20:41
RST38hGeneral: Does it work well on n900? Worth installing 280+MB? =)20:41
GeneralAntillesHaven't tried it.20:42
GeneralAntillesIt's still ioquake320:42
lcuktimeless, if its a gecko problem, does it exist in desktop?20:42
RST38hAh, just different maps?20:42
timelesslcuk: it exists in fennec20:42
Ceron^lcuk: are you at nokia flagship store?20:42
lcukCeron^, no20:42
timelessit'd exist in desktop firefox if you had an extension that behaved like microb/fennec20:42
lcukim at home20:42
timelessbut normally they don't20:42
GeneralAntillesRST38h, everything that id has copyright on they've replaced.20:42
lcukeating chips n gravy20:42
Ceron^lcuk: tought you were going to present your liqbase next20:43
lcuktimeless, but i can scalezoom with mouse wheel20:43
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javispedrolcuk: you are a genius lol20:43
lcukCeron^ waiting for london20:43
timelesslcuk: desktop gecko doesn't use canvas for painting20:43
lcukand im at barcamp on saturday20:43
timelessso it's a slightly different codepath20:43
lcukahhh timeless20:43
lcukok i understand20:43
timelessor perhaps, entirely different20:43
lcuklol javispedro thanks20:43
timelessanyway, that's my understanding20:44
lcukbut being a genius seems to have its drawbacks20:44
SpeedEvilhas anyone done any openstreetmap related stuff yet that is ported to the n900?20:44
lcukosm2go20:44
lcukopen street maps editor demoed to amazing effect by till at the summit20:44
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lcukpart of fremantle stars program20:44
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hardakerOSM rocks.20:44
* hardaker waits patiently for his N900 so he can try it on the N90020:45
Mouseylol20:45
lcukjavispedro, im tempted to reexamine gambas20:45
lcukto use as the code engine20:46
SpeedEvillcuk: Interesting. I've mapped some of my surrounding area - but I have missed many names.20:46
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GeneralAntillesMmm . . . chips n gravy sounds good.20:46
lcukeither that or ask bill to help make an open source basic parser (something he is good at!) after all, its his baby20:46
SpeedEvillcuk: It'd be lovely if it'd support bluetooth headsets to add voice notes to GPS tracks20:46
lcukGeneralAntilles, it was great!20:46
lcuknice idea20:46
GeneralAntilleslcuk, you take a picture of it for Maemo EATS!? ;)20:46
lcuki keep wanting to shout "pothole"20:47
lcukwhen driving down the road20:47
lcukand have it marked on maps for other drivers20:47
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lcukGeneralAntilles, i cant20:47
SpeedEvillcuk: Do that right, and you can upload a list to your local council20:47
GeneralAntilleslcuk, oh?20:47
lcukyeah20:47
lcukno flickr acocunt20:47
lcukaccount even20:47
GeneralAntilleslcuk, they're free. :P20:47
SpeedEvilThey're free if you don't use them much20:47
lcukbut they dont like sketches20:47
lcukor notes20:48
SpeedEvilAlso flicker blows.20:48
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SpeedEvillcuk: those are fine AIUI - but you have to tag them as not photos20:48
* lcuk ponders twitsketch20:48
lcukSpeedEvil, they are vector20:48
lcukconverted on my server to svg20:48
lcukbut remain as raw sketches20:48
SpeedEvilOh - I see.20:48
lcukcontains more info than svg i believe20:48
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lcuk(time and pressure info)20:48
lcukbut without the svg mona lisa problem :)20:49
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Ceron^http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uoM5kfZIQ0&fmt=18  CSI at its best20:52
nnodthp: gpodder on fremantle is looking great, nice work20:53
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SpeedEvilAh yes - the ever popular camera with no noise and infinite zoomability.20:55
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, what, you don't have one?20:55
javispedroand what about the omnipotent VB GUI?20:55
SpeedEvilTo be fair, some TV producers just need stabbed in the face.20:55
lcukmmm ceron^20:55
SpeedEvilActually, that's inaccurate.20:55
lcukit wouldv worked and been taken seriously if it was on n900!20:55
SpeedEvilA few TV producers don't need stabbed in the face.20:55
lcukSpeedEvil, you mean your camera cant do that?20:56
javispedroALL of them need continuous stabbing.20:56
SpeedEviljavispedro: there is some good stuff. Little. But some.20:56
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javispedrothe only good stuff is the one from that one who said something along the lines of "On this series, spaceships go at the speed of plot. Period."20:57
javispedrodunno his name20:57
javispedro(and his series lol)20:57
SpeedEvilI would guess it to be grant/naylor productions and Red Dwarf20:58
SpeedEvilYou should at least know what physics/chemistry/... you are violating.20:58
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javispedrooh, they're going to publish a video of the event20:59
javispedro:)20:59
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Ceron^http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_fresh+div-HM  <- this is even better21:01
Ceron^csi21:01
bratagNt sure if this is the forum for it - but can anyone tell me if the nokia Qt install has support for qt3 legacy if I use qt3to4 ?21:01
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SpeedEvil:)21:02
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javispedrobest youtube comment ever: "The visual basic is very good for the programs to track the ip addresses. I have written this in the visual basic, and it is perfect language for this job, for it has the optional parameters."21:02
javispedrothe sarcasm meter overflows and goes back to 021:03
javispedrodue to the grammar errors mostly.21:03
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qwerty12_N810Windows 7: Hollywood edition21:03
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* javispedro feels an urge to revisit tv tropes again but knows that would mean wasted afternoon21:04
lcukon a scale of 0 to 10, how much chance would i have of even getting a reply if i wrote an open letter to bill gates asking for a proper integrated port of visual basic classic.21:04
lcukactual serious question since ive done what i have so far21:04
SpeedEvil-133721:04
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javispedroSpeedEvil: you won me21:04
lcukwell hes out of the game for most things21:04
lcukbut he knows how to write a basic compiler!21:05
qwerty12_N810lcuk: "serious question"?. Ha.21:05
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lcukit gives a massive FU to google which microsoft could do with the boost for21:05
SpeedEvilmassive?21:06
javispedroactually, if you were to have asked "[...] if i wrote an open letter to gates asking for him to throw me a cake on my face.", I would've say 2.21:06
lcukto have maemo platform having microsoft tooling and takes emphasis away from android21:06
SpeedEvilIt's supplied as a 56M patch which flashes WinCE to the n900.21:07
lcukjust a thought anyway21:07
lcuklol21:07
Ceron^http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFUlAQZB9Ng&feature=related21:07
lcukwince is only 56m21:07
Ceron^i never surfed this much youtube.. must be the n900 making me crazy21:08
javispedroHoratio Cane is Miami's equivalent to Batman21:08
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javispedro(not mine -- tv troper's quote)21:09
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* timeless sighs21:10
bratagwell I guess I can assume noone knows21:10
woglindehi21:10
timelesswe went out to buy drinks (Tropicana OJ), and when I came back, Entourage gave me a database error and then Quit21:10
javispedrobratag: simplify your question. ask if libqt4-qt3support lib exists.21:11
bratagIt exists21:11
lcuktimeless, next time satisfy the computer with vodka21:11
lcukit wont reboot then21:11
GeneralAntillesEw, Tropicana.21:11
brataghowever its a sym link to a file that doesnt21:11
lcukerrr crash21:11
bratagso either I have a bad install21:11
javispedrobratag: you have a proto to test?21:11
bratagor its not supported21:12
timelesslcuk: You trealize that Bill Gates isn't part of Microsoft anymore, right?21:12
bratagno using the emulator21:12
lcukyeah21:12
lcukthats why he might agree21:12
timelesss/t//21:12
infobottimeless meant: lcuk: You realize that Bill Gates isn't part of Microsoft anymore, right?21:12
* timeless sighs21:12
javispedrowell, my sbox got stuck for the rest of the day.21:12
lcuksitting behind his 640k machine and having to optimize everything, this device will bring back all those memories21:12
timelessthe amount of time that it takes for Entourage to launch here is awful21:12
bratagI am just getting into the whle Qt thing and would prefer my first port to be simplier than me having to rewrite a qt3 app into qt421:12
timelesswell, at least i can consitently kill entourage21:13
lcukbratag, are they that incompatible?21:13
timelessis that a good thing?21:13
bratagvery much so21:13
javispedroloaner n900 owners: check if libQt3Support.so.4 exists, or if a qt4 packaging talking about "support" and "3" exists.21:13
javispedros/packaging/package21:14
fiferboy_libQt3Support exists21:14
cosmoGeneralAntilles: repong21:14
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GeneralAntillescosmo, apparently driving is a lot faster than taking the trains to LA.21:15
javispedrofiferboy: if it's a symlink, check it's not pointing to a missing file.21:15
cosmooh, is it?21:15
XisdibikGeneralAntilles, from where?21:15
timelessfiferboy: use dpkg -S21:15
timelesswhich package contains it?21:15
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GeneralAntillesXisdibik, SF.21:15
fiferboyjavispedro: Are you talking about on the device by default?21:15
timelessbecause it certainly isn't on my old system :)21:16
javispedrofiferboy: yeah, whatever Nokia ships.21:16
woglindelcuk I prefer rewriting to qt421:16
woglindeshoulnd be that hard21:16
XisdibikGeneralAntilles, driving to LA from here takes a good 6 hours, or more depending if your going to the opposite side of LA21:16
fiferboyNokia only ships the core Qt libraries, nothing gui21:16
Xisdibikbrb21:16
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cosmobtw we discussed about the travel route and going to LA is not necessary for anyone21:16
Xisdibikback21:16
fiferboyI'm just building the full suite of libraries, and qt3 support definitely gets built21:16
timelessthe libraries we ship are part of some mail related backend fwiw21:16
brataglibQt3Support is part of the default qt4 libs21:16
timelessiirc it was for mfe or sync or something21:16
fiferboytimeless: I was wondering what the cores were used for21:16
brataghowever I am not sure its included with nokias version21:16
Xisdibikcosmo: i agree, who would wanna go to LA, especially if they are in SF   SF>LA ;)21:16
cosmoactually i don't know any other things in LA except the hollywood sign and walk of fame :-)21:17
* lcuk would love to spend some time browsing through the qt libs 21:17
lcukhacking back at everything21:17
timelessfiferboy: dpkg -S + apt-cache rdepends or something :)21:17
bratagso I should build my qt from scratch .... sigh21:17
lcukbratag, sounds like you are having to21:17
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javispedronope.21:17
lcukwont some of it just work21:17
woglindebratag hm yes then you could use the cool ui features21:17
Xisdibikso GeneralAntilles who lives in SF?21:18
javispedrook, I unstuck my stuck sbox21:18
fiferboyThere is a Qt sprint going on right now to get everything in shape in 4.5.3 for the N90021:18
bratagI am planning on using qt - was just hoping I could port this qt3 app without having to get right into it ... sort of ease into qt coding21:18
lcuk:) fiferboy21:18
bratagbugger it - will just write from scratch21:18
woglindebratag there are some tools and tutorila from nokia/qt how to do the transition21:18
GeneralAntillesXisdibik, nobody at the moment. ;)21:18
bratagcan you point please21:19
timeless/var/lib/dpkg/status21:19
bratagI found some21:19
fiferboybratag: I don't have any experience with the qt3support functionality, but you probably are better off writing it in Qt421:19
brataghowever they all ref qt3to421:19
javispedrobratag:21:19
cosmoGeneralAntilles: so you think we won't miss anything if we skip LA?21:19
javispedro[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > ls -sh /usr/lib/libQt3Support.so.4.5.321:19
javispedro3.6M /usr/lib/libQt3Support.so.4.5.321:19
* GeneralAntilles is in Florida laughing at timeless's poor choice in orange juice.21:19
XisdibikGeneralAntilles: except me ;)21:19
lcuk"bugger it"  bratag you from uk?21:19
GeneralAntillescosmo, it's been a really long time since I've been to LA.21:19
timelessgan: do you realize what my options are here?21:19
bratagI have that liv javis21:19
woglindebratag -> http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/porting4.html21:19
Xisdibikcosmo:  LA is bad,  especially without a car21:19
bratagjust not in my scratchbox21:19
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Don't you live near Tropicana Field?  ;)21:19
GeneralAntillestimeless, clearly not Florida roadside. :D21:19
timelessthe alternative is orange colored sugar water21:19
bratagso I can get it ported in regular linux21:19
javispedrobratag: apt-get install libqt4-qt3support21:19
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, minutes away, and I know exactly how bad their orange juice is. :D21:19
timelesswith some really messed up sugar levels and some strange acids21:20
javispedrobratag: INSIDE scratchbox of course.21:20
fiferboyBetter than Minute Maid21:20
GeneralAntillescosmo, I generally prefer the SF thing, though.21:20
cosmook21:20
GeneralAntillescosmo, museums and cool outdoors stuff is more my style.21:20
bratagnatch :)21:20
Xisdibikalmost anything is better than minute maid lol21:20
timelessSF thing?21:20
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timelesshow about Minute Maid?21:20
XisdibikSan Francisco Thing21:20
GeneralAntillestimeless, urgh.21:20
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: I remember driving to Florida as a kid, and as soon as we crossed the border we would get fresh Florida orange juice21:20
bratagtrust me - my next project will be all qt421:20
GeneralAntillestimeless, the SF tourist offerings compared to LA.21:20
bratagbut I want to walk before run21:20
XisdibikGeneralAntilles: bring your n900 next time you come to SF... and come soon ;)21:21
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, there's nothing better than a glass of fresh Florida orange juice.21:21
woglindebratag are using ui aruff?21:21
GeneralAntillesXisdibik, probably wont be until next summer. :P21:21
woglindeargs stzff21:21
woglindeargs stuff21:21
cosmofiferboy: we were in florida last january and the oranges were really bad. i guess it wasn't the season.21:21
fiferboySurprisingly, everywhere I had orange juice in Amsterdam (except the hotel) did a fresh squeeze right in the restaurant...21:21
XisdibikGeneralAntilles, well i will hopefully have my n900 before then... pray so at least lol21:21
bratagnot sure I understand the Q wog21:22
fiferboycosmo: Maybe you just hit a bad stand ;)21:22
cosmoXisdibik: i'm coming 27.12 with my n90021:22
GeneralAntillescosmo, winter's hard on oranges.21:22
Xisdibikcosmo:  my n900 should hopefully be there before then too lol21:22
GeneralAntillescosmo, often they're California imports at that time of year.21:22
cosmofiferboy: nope, even in shops they were really bad quality21:22
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: I'm coming to Florida in Feb - I like your winter weather21:22
Xisdibikmy gf is coming from japan on 24.12 ;)21:22
woglindebratag I am making the gui with qt-designer and then using the .ui files21:22
* GeneralAntilles does too.21:22
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, where you going?21:22
timelessfiferboy: are you really that old? :b21:22
fralsdoh, did anyone capture the stream from helsinki flagship store?21:22
bratagI will be for my next project21:23
fiferboytimeless: Not yet, I just go for a week21:23
bratagfor this one however I am simply trying to port over a qt3 app21:23
fiferboyWorking my way up to 6-monthes21:23
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Orlando21:23
timelessbtw, did anyone explain *why* the flagship store had n900s on show tonight?21:23
bratagso no real gui stuff to do from new21:23
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, doing the theme park thing or what?21:23
GeneralAntilles'cause Orlanda is the worst otherwise. ;)21:23
timelesss/on show/[on display|for show]/21:23
infobottimeless meant: btw, did anyone explain *why* the flagship store had n900s [on display|for show] tonight?21:23
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Yup.  My three-year-old loves it21:23
GeneralAntilless/Orlanda/Orlando/21:23
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: 'cause Orlando is the worst otherwise. ;)21:23
GeneralAntillesAh, that makes sense then.21:23
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Yeah, I will stay out of the city21:24
GeneralAntillesWinter's the time to do.21:24
GeneralAntillesOrlando is oppressive during the Summer.21:24
timelessGAN: DC isn't much better :)21:24
fiferboyI'm surprised more Floridians don't summer up in Canada :)21:24
GeneralAntillestimeless, sadly that's true.21:24
timelessfiferboy: truth be told, Toronto isn't much better21:25
timelessthe east coast gets pretty much the same summer weather all the way up and down21:25
fiferboyMaybe not Toronto, but there are nice places a few hours North21:25
timeless(hurricanes can come up to the DC area and further north)21:25
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, as long as you're on the coast Summers in Florida are bearable.21:25
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: You are never far from the coast in Florida, are you?  :P21:26
timelessgan: not a fan of the everglades in the summer? :)21:26
GeneralAntillesHaving grown up here the heat and humidity don't really bother me.21:26
RST38hlucky21:26
GeneralAntillestimeless, depends on what I'm doing. ;)21:26
GeneralAntillesI can't even move up north, though, because the winters will kill me.21:26
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fiferboyI would love to spend a week bird watching in Florida, but my vacation plans don't allow it at this stage :(21:26
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RST38hheating things is cheaper and simpler than cooling things21:27
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Eh? Bird watching can be done anywhere...21:27
GeneralAntillesRST38h, meh.21:27
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Depends on the birds :P21:27
RST38hso, winter prospects look much brighter to me =)21:27
* timeless sighs21:27
timelessentourage is so slow21:27
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Exactly :p21:27
timelessanyone have a mail client that doesn't suck?21:28
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I don't mind sweating. Freezing to death isn't something I can handle.21:28
RST38hFL, on the other hand....well, as long as you are at the coast (like 100 meters from the coast), it is fine21:28
fiferboyLots of White Ibis and Wood Storks and things on the way from the air port21:28
RST38hGeneral: You just wear more clothing :)21:28
GeneralAntillesRST38h, anywhere within a few miles of the coast usually gets a good seabreeze.21:28
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, take heed http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=35434721:30
lcukfiferboy, was it you doing birdwatching in amsterdam? :D21:30
fiferboylcuk: Of course.  I got six or so new birds21:30
timelessgan: btw, did maemo.nokia.com's content improve any?21:30
timelesssomeone tried to tell me that they took my feedback into account21:31
timelessbut i'm not sure i want to look again :)21:31
GeneralAntillestimeless, I haven't looked.21:31
GeneralAntillesHehe, neither do I. :D21:31
GeneralAntillesWell, the browser page doesn't mention Firefox.21:31
timelessit used to, right?21:31
GeneralAntillesYes21:32
timelessprogress!@21:32
GeneralAntilles"Mozilla engine"21:32
GeneralAntilles"Mozilla technology"21:32
timelesssounds good enough to me21:32
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wiretappedit says "fast Mozilla engine"21:32
wiretappedis that accurate?21:32
wiretapped;)21:32
timelessthe engine is fast, the host isn't21:33
timelessdon't blame the host :)21:33
timelesserr21:33
wiretapped"just like a browser on your home computer" ?21:33
qwerty12_N810Only if browserd isn't used. Although, on the N900, I must say, it isn't a PITA any more21:33
timelessdon't blame the guest for faults in the host :)21:33
timelesswiretapped: my home computer is crawling21:33
* wiretapped programs his home computer21:33
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GeneralAntillesSomehow Flash still manages to bring a dual E5520 to its knees every so often.21:33
timelessin fact, it took much longer for Entourage to start on this MacBook Pro than even Nokia Maps does on my n90021:34
* wiretapped beams himself in to the future21:34
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timelesspeople who have seen nokia maps start will understand ...21:34
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* timeless sighs as Entourage continues to beach ball21:35
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timelessat least Entourage can remind me of Summer :)21:35
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wiretappedhttp://maemo.nokia.com/images/uploads/entry-media/panorama-desktop-customize.jpg21:35
wiretappedfancy stuff !!21:36
GeneralAntillesForum Nokia is sure taking its time with these discount codes.21:37
timelessthat's fake, sadly21:37
wiretappedi figured.21:37
timelessyou switch desktops laterally not vertically21:37
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timelessthere is an animation, and it isn't too bad21:38
penguinbaithttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=354364#post35436421:38
timelessunless you select just the right wallpaper21:38
penguinbaitqwerty12_N810, there's your opportunity21:38
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woglindenice login name21:41
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acidjazzDavis: Hello Sachin, the N900 has been pushed back to Mid November. Would you like to pre-order?21:59
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Ceron^http://www.hilavitkutin.com/2009/10/20/nortein-kosintatapa/ how to marry someone22:05
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kleetustrying to apt-update in scratchbox within the FREMANTLE_X86 target and getting 404's from http://repository.maemo.org/dists/fremantle/sources/binary-386/Packages.gz22:10
kleetusthis works fine in the ARMEL target22:10
kleetusdo I need to specify something different in my /etc/apt/sources.list?22:11
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Woollyjeremiah: ping!22:11
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jeremiahWoolly: pong!22:13
Woollyjeremiah: do you have any referral codes for linode? If so, would we be able to get a mutual discount?22:13
jeremiahI don't have one off of the top of my head. But I'll check.22:14
Woollycool22:14
Woollyjeremiah: I'm just jumping home, be back in 5 mins22:14
* jeremiah surfs to linode22:14
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jeremiahWoolly: right22:14
jeremiahkleetus: There were network issues earlier, but your problem sounds different.22:14
jeremiahkleetus: Not sure why that is happening.22:14
jeremiahdid you do 'apt-get update'?22:14
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Stskeepslo wazd22:15
pupnik very interestiong - surge / lection22:15
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kleetusyes....this is where I am getting the 404's from the repositories. I am sure it is something dumb22:15
jeremiahkleetus: what is 404ing?22:16
jeremiahIs it nokia's repos or maemo.org's?22:16
penguinbaitkleetus, did you run it more than once?22:16
kleetusmaemo.org22:17
pupnikany word on when we can reflash n900?22:17
kleetusyes I ran it several times22:17
penguinbaitI had wierd problems first time, then it just worked the second time?22:17
pupnikgovt spyware proxy error phps22:17
kleetusi am just starting to look at the sdk today, I really need to get started...beyond the maemo site, where is a good place for new comers to the maemo sdk's?22:18
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jeremiahkleetus: Well, the sdk is really something to work around.22:20
kleetusjeremiah:  do you mean that it is more of a hindrance than a help to getting things done?22:22
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timeless_mbppupnik: my guess is not for a bit22:22
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jeremiahkleetus: Some people definitely think so22:23
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jeremiahkleetus: The key is, if you develop on linux, then you won't really have any problem developing for Maemo22:23
jeremiahIt is nearly a full linux environment22:24
jeremiahAnd scratchbox tries to abstract away the missing bits22:24
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jeremiahSo you can just fire up emacs (or vi) and start writing code.22:24
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luke-jrwhat about nano?!22:24
kleetusjeremiah:  shoot....I have been stuck in the window mobile world for so long that I forgot that one could just write and compile the code for that target22:25
jeremiahnano is slightly better than vi.22:25
jeremiahBut only because it is not modal.22:25
jeremiah</religion>22:26
jeremiahkleetus: Welcome to ease of use and freedom! :)22:26
kleetusjeremiah:  can you undo in nano?22:26
jeremiahDamn good question. :)22:26
kleetusjeremiah:  never did see that in the man page22:26
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jeremiahNo idea since my finger only understand emacs22:26
Woollyjeremiah: ping22:26
jeremiahWoolly: pong22:26
Woollyemacs: sick in mouth22:27
jeremiah2bf6f2cc5f54910a4e822c2b292e10c4cd25751c22:27
Woollyjeremiah: how did the referral code search go?22:27
jeremiah^^ see above :]22:27
Woollyso I have to use that?22:27
Woolly(Y)22:27
jeremiahBut - it only works for me, not for you. :(22:27
jeremiahThat is to say, I save money, but you don't.22:27
jeremiahSo use it if you want to - but you don't have to22:28
Woollythat's fine, I might as well use it, as not use it!22:28
jeremiah:)22:29
jeremiah~Woolly++22:29
Woollylet me know whether the discount is applied or not :)22:29
jeremiahWill do22:29
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luke-jrjeremiah: Woolly: Linode ftl ;)22:32
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Woollyluke-jr: why ftl?22:34
luke-jrWoolly: Xen-based, and expensive.22:34
Woollyluke-jr: a) problems with Xen? b) cheaper alternative?22:34
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luke-jra) Xen has overhead, b) my hosting :p22:34
luke-jrhttp://lightfoot.dashjr.org/?page=vps22:35
* w00t hugs his dedi22:35
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* luke-jr uses his dedi to host VPS :p22:35
w00tmy dedi is dedi, to me :P22:35
WoollyI dont think I can afford a dedi22:35
luke-jrWoolly: my VPS hosting starts at $11/mo22:36
luke-jr:)22:36
WoollyI'm UK based ;)22:36
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luke-jrWoolly: well, I "offer" UK VPS, but I'll have to find a UK dedi to set it up on :p22:36
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luke-jrcuriously, I haven't come across a good deal there yet, though I haven't had reason to look22:37
Woollyhaha, that was with reference to the dollar sign22:37
luke-jrWoolly: oh22:37
WoollyI dont mind if it's on a US server :D22:37
luke-jr€9 / £8 then22:37
luke-jr:p22:37
luke-jrbut that's without IPv4, note22:37
luke-jrIPv4 address is (currency)2 more/mo22:38
jeremiahftl?22:38
jeremiahFTW!22:38
Woollyjeremiah: lol, late to the party :D22:38
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jeremiah*sigh*22:38
Macerladededa22:39
Macerwaiting on an ubuntu download for the tb22:39
Macerat least mer ran on it22:39
Macerthat is promising22:39
luke-jrjeremiah: read up. you're paying more for inferior service :p22:39
Stskeepsit's promising other OS'es can run on it.22:39
MacerStskeeps: that too22:39
jeremiahluke-jr: So you say, but I have had a really good experience with those guys22:39
Macerbut then again. is there a problem running other OSes on a smartq?22:39
Maceror n8x0? ;)22:40
luke-jrMacer: N8x0, yes22:40
jeremiahThey have awesome support.22:40
Stskeepsno, but there's open* devices22:40
Macerheh22:40
jeremiahPlus I can reach them 24/7 on IRC22:40
Stskeepsthey're22:40
jeremiahWhich is worth money22:40
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Macerisn't the tb too?22:40
luke-jrjeremiah: well, I'm smaller so I'm not on IRC 24/7 :p22:40
Maceri figured the tb was probably one of the most open devices out there22:40
luke-jrjeremiah: I wouldn't use Xen regardless22:40
Woollyluke-jr: do you offer a 7-day money back guarantee?22:40
StskeepsMacer: per definition i would say it's open* year22:41
Stskeepsyeah22:41
jeremiahluke-jr: What do you use? KVM?22:41
Macerit's just a beagleboard in a box heh22:41
jeremiahlol22:41
luke-jrWoolly: not really, but if I know you're not out to scam me I usually can let you use it 7 days before paying me :p22:41
Macer* ?22:41
luke-jrjeremiah: KVM would be worse; I use OpenVZ22:41
Macerwhat's the * for ? :)22:41
Woollyluke-jr: fortunately, I'm not out to scam you :D22:41
jeremiahWhy is kvm worse than OpenVZ? I'm not buying that.22:41
luke-jrWoolly: yeah, but I've had bad experience with random email customers :)22:42
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jeremiahYou're starting to sound like you're selling something.22:42
jeremiah:)22:42
luke-jrWoolly: someone I meet on IRC gets more trust :p22:42
Woollyluke-jr: haha true :D22:42
Macerluke-jr: hahaha22:42
Macergood luck with that :)22:42
luke-jrjeremiah: KVM emulates hardware. Xen emulates the hardware stack. OpenVZ emulates nothing.22:42
StskeepsMacer: * = open according to http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Vendor_Social_Contract22:42
* Macer starts sending luke-jr nigerian cousin e-mails22:42
Stskeeps(that way i don't have to argue my definition of open.)22:42
luke-jrStskeeps: so "open*" is utterly meaningless22:42
jeremiahluke-jr: Do you have a URL to your specs?22:42
MacerStskeeps: i'm sure you have had that argument a few times22:43
luke-jrjeremiah: http://lightfoot.dashjr.org/?page=vps22:43
Macerluke-jr: uh oh22:43
StskeepsMacer: with luke-jr mostly22:43
jeremiahI am always in the market for a good host22:43
MacerStskeeps: haha22:43
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Stskeepsluke-jr: open*, not open.22:43
jeremiahluke-jr: .org? Are you a co-op?22:43
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Stskeepsopen is too tainted22:44
MacerStskeeps: i would say open hardware is22:44
Stskeepsand has lost meaning22:44
Macerprobably not software so much22:44
w00tStskeeps: hah.22:44
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Macerbut then again. if the communist chinese industrial machine gets a hold of any schematic then that device is virtually worthless in a month :)22:44
luke-jrjeremiah: dashjr.org is my personal domain. I don't have a domain for the hosting biz22:45
jeremiahah okay. :)22:45
Macerso you really can't blame hardware manufacturers for being skeptical of "open" hardware22:45
luke-jrjeremiah: the Omaha Linux User Group is setting up a co-op datacenter here, but that's not yet in place22:45
luke-jrMacer: you know, I didn't see that happen with OpenMoko...22:46
wazdem, pong? :)22:46
jeremiahluke-jr: Wow, cool22:46
Macerluke-jr: heh22:46
Macerthere's always an exception :)22:46
Stskeepsluke-jr: yeah but openmoko wasn't cool..22:46
luke-jrStskeeps: if it worked, it would have been22:46
w00topenmoko was almost the opposite of cool22:46
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jeremiahluke-jr: Do you have redundant connections to the internet backbone?22:47
Stskeepsit was almost 80s.22:47
luke-jrChinese machine too lazy to fix the crap before duping it?22:47
Macerluke-jr: that is the curse of the communist chinese industrial machine22:47
jeremiahluke-jr: Or rather, how fat is your pipe?22:47
Macerpiss poor qa :)22:47
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Macermake a lot... if broken.. replace22:47
luke-jrjeremiah: my VPS hosting is all out of colocated machines with multiple connections22:47
* Macer wishes he could get the chinese symbols for that logo :)22:47
w00tStskeeps: it wasn't so much that22:47
jeremiahluke-jr: Do you cram a lot of customers on them?22:47
w00tto me it looked more like a toy than a device22:47
w00tsame for the software22:47
Maceri need to find someone chinese to translate that into chinese writing for me haha22:48
luke-jrjeremiah: I haven't had to consider that aspect yet, as the systems spend most of their time idle :p22:48
jeremiahwow, cool. :)22:48
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luke-jrI think the busiest process is my realtime email backup via Git22:48
* luke-jr ponders why Git is so slow at it22:49
jeremiahLots of data?22:49
luke-jrjeremiah: realtime, so usually only a few KB every so often at most22:49
jeremiahAnd it is probably using this; http://github.com/git/git/blob/5ad9dce7e691106fecde413de8cc321b937367a6/git-send-email.perl22:50
luke-jrno.22:50
luke-jrmy code is on gitorious :p22:50
Woollyluke-jr: did you receive my pm? :)22:50
jeremiahluke-jr: Then you should know why it is slow. :)22:50
* lcuk sags22:51
luke-jrjeremiah: git itself is slow to add/commit :/22:51
jeremiahhmm. I don't usually experience that, but then most of my stuff is < 5,000 lines22:51
jeremiahSo nothing really big.22:51
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luke-jrwell, my maildir is a good 600,000 files/messages22:52
jeremiahIn any case, interesting stuff luke-jr. Can I cluster and use your private network if I get two nodes?22:52
jeremiahyow.22:52
luke-jrwhat gets me is that Git takes so long even if I tell it exactly what changed22:52
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luke-jrjeremiah: I don't have a private network. I try to keep my servers at different geographies :p22:53
luke-jrif you have 2 nodes on the same host, I can certainly set one up22:53
jeremiahThat is what is cool about linode - if you get two hosts in the same location, all data traffic between nodes is on a private network and free22:53
jeremiahbut it appears it would be trivial for you to set up.22:54
luke-jryeah22:54
jeremiah:)22:54
luke-jrI mean, I could technically setup a VPN too, but then I need to watch my own bw use22:54
jeremiahluke-jr: Apache is an add-on?22:55
jeremiahWhat does that mean?22:55
luke-jrjeremiah: Managed Hosting22:55
jeremiahah22:56
luke-jrsee category :P22:56
jeremiahheh22:56
GeneralAntillesApplying Boxwave protectors is always such a pain.22:56
WoollyGeneralAntilles: air bubbles?22:56
GeneralAntillesWoolly, fibers.22:57
Woolly:(22:57
GeneralAntillesand I bent a corner trying to get it off to reapply. :(22:57
GeneralAntillesAfter a couple dozen applications that's the one area I still have trouble with.22:57
Woollygutter22:57
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FirebirdGeneralAntilles, are the boxwaves sticky on the back?22:58
GeneralAntillesYeah22:58
Firebirdall the screen protectors that I've had get unremoveable fibers and lint on the sticky side then are useless since you can't really clean it22:58
GeneralAntillesOh, it's easy enough to clean22:58
GeneralAntillesJust run water over it.22:58
Firebirdyea, on the ones I have, it just stays stuck22:59
GeneralAntillesProblem is I have carpet here and there are lots of fibers floating around. ;)22:59
Firebird(not boxwave)22:59
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's why I don't recommend knock-offs. ;)22:59
Firebirdheh22:59
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SpeedEvilCan the desktop display on the TV out?23:01
SpeedEvil(at very low res)23:01
GeneralAntillesYes?23:01
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SpeedEvilI mean normal apps - say the browser.23:02
MacerGod i feel horrible23:02
Macerprobably have the swine flu23:02
* Macer goes on a pig murdering rampage23:02
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GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, it just mirrors the desktop.23:02
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to do a seminar about what open and open source actually mean for the population of Talk.23:03
GeneralAntillesTo any OS X users out there, I'm discussing Maemo 5 support with Mark from Mira Software (BluePhoneElite).23:03
jeremiahTV out works pretty well I thought.23:04
jeremiahI got pretty decent resolution on my wide screen thingy23:04
GAN900'Thingy'? :P23:04
luke-jr'Talk'?23:05
jeremiahOne of my "three screens"23:05
GAN900.maemo.org23:05
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Woollypeople, i need your help23:16
Woollygive me some random words23:16
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Woollyno longer than 10 characters23:16
qwerty12_N810oexuh23:17
qwerty12_N810paeho23:17
qwerty12_N810aenae23:17
SpeedEvilCheesecake23:17
SpeedEvilpenis23:17
luke-jr..........23:17
SpeedEvilSebastopol23:17
SpeedEvileggplant23:17
SpeedEvilvelociraptor23:17
qwerty12_N810baefa23:17
qwerty12_N810iokoh23:17
qwerty12_N810acaoj23:17
WoollySpeedEvil: wins it23:17
Woollyeggplant it is23:17
luke-jrwhat does he win?23:17
SpeedEvilAn eggplant?23:17
Woollyis an eggplant the same as a courgette?23:17
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SolarionWoolly: no, but it's related to the Walrus State23:18
Solarionkoo koo kachew23:18
* SpeedEvil goes back to reading about quantum spin.23:18
* SpeedEvil is trying to make a MRI.23:19
Ceron^SpeedEvil: i know all about MRI:s23:19
Ceron^just ask me if you need something!23:19
SolarionSpeedEvil: "make" an MRI?23:19
WoollyI need to give my tortoise an MRI23:19
SolarionIs not hard.23:19
SolarionIn the presence of a magnetic field, the electron spin begins to precess23:20
SpeedEvilCeron^: A '180 degree' or a '90 degree' pulse of RF - what makes these 180 or 90 degree.23:20
SpeedEvilCeron^: Is it simply a total pulse energy large enough to make the phase point in that direction in the rotating coordinate system?23:21
SolarionIf you now apply a magnetic field perpendicular to that axis, which is rotating about the axis, it can cause the spin to flip, *if* drive at the frequency at which the spin precesses about the static field.23:21
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lcukarghhh, how do i quit from "nano"23:21
lcukits some evil console mode editor23:21
frals^X23:21
SpeedEvilSolarion: yes - just a toy one.23:21
SolarionSpeedEvil: the number represents the spin's polar angle on the Bloch sphere.23:21
fralsie ctrl+x lcuk, im fairly sure23:22
SolarionSpeedEvil: in a lab or something?23:22
lcuktyping ^x23:22
lcukahhhhh23:22
SolarionNow there's more complexity (if you really wanna understand, see Abragam's book on the subject)23:22
SpeedEvilSolarion: no - a toy desktop one.23:22
Solarionbut to first order, that's what is going on23:22
lcukphew23:22
lcukthanks fragment23:22
lcukfrals23:22
fralsnp ;)23:22
SolarionSpeedEvil: hardware or software simulation?23:22
SpeedEvilSolarion: An imager that you can put your hand in, and it can say with 50% certainty that it is in fact a hand. Type of thing. Probably earth field or certainly low field.23:23
Solarionumm, ok23:23
SpeedEvilSolarion: I've been reading http://www.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/mri/inside.htm - which is quite good.23:23
SpeedEvilSolarion: I need to brush  up on my quantum mechanics.23:24
Solarioneh, first- and second-order NMR can be done with classical physics23:24
Solarion(ignoring the fact that spin is inherently quantum)23:24
Solarion(just treat it like a classical magnet)23:25
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SpeedEvilSolarion: yes - i'm trying to understand on a basic level how spin behaves - I understand - sort-of - the imaging process - but I'm not quite sure of how to compute the phases to the RF exciter coils forex.23:26
Solarionah23:26
SolarionI'm a theorist, so I'm (mostly) useless at that level. ;)23:26
JaffaX-Fade: ping23:26
bratagFUCKING n900 has been pushed kids23:26
SpeedEvilSolarion: MRI is funky though. Mr Fourier would have been proud.23:26
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RST38hbratag: ?23:27
bratagMid Nov23:27
bratagYesterday Nokia USA - yes yes shipping tomorrow23:27
bratagToday - Oh we jus got email its been pushed to Nov23:27
bratagHOO FUCKING RAY!23:27
* RST38h hears half the tmo fanboys shoot themselves23:28
ShadowJKlol23:28
Stskeepsthey're toying with you23:28
fralswell this is good, soon im gonna be turned off by it and save 600€... :rolleyes:23:28
ShadowJKNokia Shop Finland was saying w44,45 last weekend :)23:28
bratagNo they arent23:28
bratagI spoke with the sales chick - and the supervisor23:28
bratagand their supervisor23:28
bratagand they all say the same fucking thing23:29
bratagNew email just now - N900 pushed to Mid Nov23:29
Stskeepsplease keep in mind hardware vendors are excellent at personality split23:29
Stskeeps:P23:29
fralsnokia.se still has it as w44, im going with that until its week 4423:29
frals(what week is it now?)23:29
bratagThe website still says End October23:29
bratagI asked about that and they said it has yet to be updated23:29
chellifrals: 4323:29
Corsacexpansys says 9 days to go23:29
fralswell, time will tell, more time for people to come up with hacks to get MMS working once it lands :D23:30
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Solarionheh. It'd be funny if I got it before anyone else. :)23:30
* Solarion has to buy it through a carrier....23:30
Corsachmhm that being said, I need to ask my carrier about a new contract if I buy an n90023:31
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Corsacwithout data plan it's less fun23:31
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javispedroefefg23:32
javispedroah, the random word contest is over already.23:32
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* jeremiah smells smoke23:32
jeremiahwhat's burning23:32
javispedroyour data.23:32
jeremiahOh, the Nokia store.23:32
jeremiahThe N900 waiters have rioted23:32
javispedroaye, they left the n900 at 600mhz? :(23:32
SpeedEvilSolarion: http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Nuclear-Magnetism-International-Monographs/dp/019852014X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256157145&sr=1-2 ?23:33
bratagIt doesnt exactly fill me with confidence them delaying the release 5 goddamn days before it was due to ship23:33
javispedrowhat?23:33
MacerThe hermaphroditic nematode keeps its self-fertilized eggs inside its uterus until they hatch. The juvenile nematodes will then ingest the parent nematode.23:33
Macerhow like life23:33
jeremiahdelicious!23:34
jeremiahMom, what's for dinner?23:34
SpeedEvilbratag: well - the UK nokia store has been saying mid november for over a week23:34
jeremiahParent nematode23:34
jeremiahParent nematode - it's what's for dinner23:34
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bratagSeriously Nokia needs a goddamn enema23:35
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JaffaLot of hype. Probablt should get launch right...23:37
JaffaGeneralAntilles: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=569723:37
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bratagYes they should - most times that includes providing actual information on the friggin release23:38
bratagrather than letting us foam at the mouth trying to figure this shit out ourselves23:38
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JaffaLong queues at the local Nokia Store, eh? ;-)23:39
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ShadowJKatleast they've been frank in saying it's a guess :)23:40
SolarionSpeedEvil: yes23:40
bratagActually they have been frank in saying its a guess of the guess23:40
SolarionSpeedEvil: I've only read a bit of it (needed to get my g-TMR calculation done), so I don't know if it'll address all you need23:40
bratagIn that they have said "sometime in October - maybe" kinda sorta could be fuck knows23:40
bratagcancelled and reordered through newegg23:41
bratagleast I trust them to stick to a date23:41
lcukbarcamp registrion form:   dietary requirements:    bacon23:41
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Stskeepsi vote for a setting to make webbrowser back button work like backspace key.23:43
ShadowJKlcuk: I heard on bbc world service about a US company that makes scented candles for men. Bacon is one of the scents available :-)23:43
lardmanWoolly: did anyone ever answer you? Eggplant == aubergine23:44
lcukthat wouldnt work, i'd burn my mouth trying to eat it23:44
Woollyaaaaah yeha23:44
SpeedEvilSolarion: I'll see if I can find it in a nearby library, thantk.23:44
w00tStskeeps: what's it do?23:44
Woollyaubergine != courgette23:44
w00t(so much for my going offline.)23:44
lardmanindeed23:44
lardmanand on that note, night all, long day in Northampton tomorrow - fun!23:44
lardmanhmm23:44
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Stskeepsw00t: goes back a page. back button shows a worthless screenshot of previous pages and slows down browsing process23:45
w00tmm23:45
w00tso click back, click page23:45
RST38hSts: File a bug, watch it wontfixed23:45
Stskeepsyes, which is annoying23:46
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w00ti suppose the combination of history and back is useful in some ways, but i can imagine how that would be annoying, yes23:46
ShadowJKs60 browser has the ability to switch thumbnailed historry off23:46
qwerty12_N810Maybe it's their way of "fixing" the "pressing back in a textfield" goes back...23:46
Macerhaha23:47
Macerwontfixed23:47
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: wouldnt surprise me.23:47
Macersymbian should die anyways23:47
w00ti've been saying that for a very long time23:48
GAN900Jaffa, the maemo.org tag includes contributors.23:49
GAN900Jaffa, so INVALID.23:49
ShadowJKif my e75 had vpn available, and atleast twice the screen res, I'd  probably sit out the fingerpainting craze :/23:50
crashanddie_GAN900, you do not yell at Jaffa23:50
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crashanddie_GAN900, you say "With all due respect, sir, I believe you might be wrong"23:50
jeremiahheh23:50
jeremiahJaffa is never wrong.23:51
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JaffaGAN900: So what's the defn of "contributor"?23:51
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Macernokia should just release the n900 by surprise23:52
Macerlike just one day have an "order now" page up :)23:52
JaffaGAN900: Why isn't yerga, for example?23:52
GAN900Jaffa, anybody with a proven track record.23:52
GAN900Jaffa, feel free to ask Andre to add a tag to anybody you think deserves it.23:52
Jaffacrashanddie_: And then I prove to them why *they* are? ;-)23:52
ShadowJKmacer: i suspect they wouldn't have been able to have 1000ish devices in the wild wothout it leaking :)23:53
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* GAN900 pokes crashanddie_ in the eye.23:53
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MacerShadowJK: but it would be funny of them to do23:53
Macerjust out the blue release a flagship device without warning :)23:53
JaffaGAN900: Seems a bit too cliquish. It should be reseerved for those who have some form of current, formal relationship to maemo.org23:53
GAN900Jaffa, feel free to suggest that.23:54
GAN900Jaffa, I kinda like it as it is now.23:54
ShadowJKbesides some community people and the summit attendees getting N900s, the usual end user beta testers have also got them :)23:54
GAN900Helps people pick out the chumps from those with a clue.23:54
ShadowJKbut we dont hear for them, different community and all :/23:54
* Jaffa twiddles his thumbs whilst microb uploads a screenshot. Not sure what's slowest: midgard, microb or my broadband23:55
MacerShadowJK: haha23:55
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ShadowJKone of them said n900 is far more bugfree at this point than previous phones :)23:55
Macerthe are hoarding the n900s to themselves?23:55
Macerlike the spice? :)23:55
JaffaGAN900: Then bugs.maemo should use the designed user masthead incl. karma & avatar ;-p23:55
lcukShadowJK, they aren't wrong.  i tried and tried and tried to put a sim in my n810 but it kept falling out of the slot23:56
lcukdamn buggy design23:56
wiretappedthe N900s must flow!23:56
Maceri love dune... spice is like.. half drug half intergalactic space travel fuel23:56
Maceri'd love to see people start making gasoline out of cocaine23:56
ShadowJKlcuk: where previous referred to things like n97, n95, etc23:56
JaffaMacer: Isn't that the plot of _The Living Daylights_?23:56
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lcukShadowJK, are they previous maemo devices?23:56
MacerJaffa: don't know. never saw it23:56
Macerbut i guess i will now :)23:56
RST38hShadowJK: It is true, about it beeing more bug free than s60 phones23:56
JaffaMacer: Actually, other way round: smuggling cocaine in gasoline23:57
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ShadowJKlcuk: no. that was my point.23:57
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MacerJaffa: in dune the spice is both fuel and drug23:58
Macerit's great :)23:58
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Macer