| Macer | i bet 9/10th of the human population couldn't tell you what os their phone runs | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Macer | even iphone users :) | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil1 | Well - given that most don't have a phone... | 00:00 |
| * Macer rephrases | 00:00 | |
| Macer | i bet 9/10ths of the human population which have phones couldn't tell you what os their phone runs | 00:01 |
| Macer | even iphone users :) | 00:01 |
| * Jaffa beds | 00:02 | |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Isn't that good? | 00:02 |
| ShadowJK | the n900 delay must be delayed because of the "joikuspot and sims2 doesn't work" bugreports ;) | 00:02 |
| RST38h | so, are we gonna wait until j2me works there? | 00:03 |
| RST38h | 'cause sims2 ain't gonna work otherwise | 00:04 |
| ShadowJK | hehe | 00:04 |
| hardaker | Was there an official announcement about an n900 delay, or is that speculation? | 00:04 |
| * |R pissed, again... | 00:04 | |
| |R | (US version of pissed) | 00:05 |
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| ShadowJK | hardaker: someone told someone over the phone | 00:06 |
| hardaker | Ah, I'll call someone and tell them then. that'll make it official ;-) | 00:06 |
| * gunni thinks N900 is only delayed, because they want to be sure that "Duke Nukem'Forever" will run on the device SCNR | 00:06 | |
| saltsa_ | what's the qt support in the maemo 5? Does it have it? | 00:06 |
| RST38h | there are last minute hardware changes | 00:06 |
| * ShadowJK would doubt | 00:07 | |
| Macer | RST38h: fail | 00:07 |
| RST38h | I suggest you start voting for those fremantle-x86 packages right away... | 00:07 |
| hardaker | maybe they're adding a quad 3G band. that'd be my hope and I'd wait ;-) | 00:07 |
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| Macer | hardaker: att should die | 00:07 |
| Macer | :) | 00:07 |
| Macer | nokia is just helping them along | 00:07 |
| hardaker | Macer: I agree. but then, I think that about them all. | 00:07 |
| Macer | of all the companies to survive why couldn't att go under | 00:07 |
| hardaker | why is it we have 4 carriers and still have monopoly conditions? | 00:07 |
| Macer | hardaker: cable companies have always had a monopoly in areas | 00:08 |
| Macer | like where i live i can only get comcast | 00:08 |
| hardaker | yeah, them too. | 00:08 |
| Macer | i never understood that | 00:08 |
| RST38h | hardaker: Because whoever owns the tower dictates the rules | 00:08 |
| Macer | i wonder if someone tried to install a new cable system.. could they? | 00:08 |
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| hardaker | RST38h: I agree, as it should be, but when 4 companies have towers how come it feels like there is no competition? | 00:09 |
| Macer | i bet there are municipal laws that prevent it | 00:09 |
| hardaker | Macer: yes, but it'd be very expensive. | 00:09 |
| Macer | hardaker: well.. comcast did it ;) | 00:09 |
| RST38h | hardaker: because there is no competition | 00:09 |
| Macer | or at least they sucked up the smaller companies that did | 00:09 |
| hardaker | and even if you wanted to, you'd be foolish to do anything but raw fiber at this point. | 00:09 |
| RST38h | hardaker: it is not the number of companies that determines competition or lack of it | 00:09 |
| Macer | hardaker: i don't know. for home lines copper still seems to do the trick | 00:10 |
| RST38h | hardaker: it is the cost of entry into the market | 00:10 |
| RST38h | and currently, that cost is in the range of $shitload of money | 00:10 |
| Macer | RST38h: well. depends | 00:10 |
| pupnik | i wish someone would hack n8x0-n8x0 video calls - preferably direct client to client | 00:10 |
| hardaker | RST38h: It's obviously not the #. But the theorists say an # >= 2 means competition. the cell phone industry has proved that theory wrong. | 00:10 |
| Macer | if it were me i'd set up a local sat comm link and slowly start moving cable around a very small area | 00:10 |
| hardaker | 10 cents for an SMS. geezze.... | 00:10 |
| Macer | trying to break a little over even to eat :) | 00:11 |
| pupnik | eh i think 9 cents here if you get fonic prepaid | 00:11 |
| RST38h | hardaker: Which theorists? | 00:11 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: you need to upload a screenshot to http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/classic-gaming-wallpapers/ (log in, page > edit, screenshots at bottom of page) | 00:11 |
| hardaker | capatalist theorists. "let the market decide" | 00:11 |
| RST38h | hardaker: Just because you have got more then 1 monopolist does not mean you have go competition | 00:11 |
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| hardaker | I suspect all the CEOs of the 4 companies have each other on speed dial for a group conference. | 00:11 |
| RST38h | hardaker: Competition is when somebody else can enter the market and create competing service | 00:11 |
| hardaker | or when an existing service can undercut another to gain market share. | 00:12 |
| wjt | pupnik: n8x0 to n8x0 video calls? like the ones they do? | 00:12 |
| RST38h | hardaker: they are not interested in that | 00:12 |
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| hardaker | which they can do. They could all cut (continuing my example) SMS messages down to 1 cent and make a huge profit still and cut out the other carriers, but they don't. | 00:12 |
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| pupnik | wjt well what's the app name i'm missing | 00:12 |
| RST38h | hardaker: price wars usually hurt everybody on the market | 00:13 |
| wjt | pupnik: Click on a contact, pick call, and then turn on video (which is a button on the N810, and I think you just pop the camera out on the N800) | 00:13 |
| RST38h | hardaker: So, it is way more often a price fixing pact of some kind | 00:13 |
| wjt | pupnik: (works on jabber and google talk, and i think maybe sip) | 00:13 |
| hardaker | RST38h: that's what I've been betting on. A pact. it's the only thing that makes sense. | 00:13 |
| RST38h | hardaker: A price war means that all four companies will end up with lower prices and thus lower margins | 00:14 |
| RST38h | hardaker: So, no sane established company will start a price war | 00:14 |
| acidjazz | the n900 is a fake phone invented by nokia marketing for popularity strategics | 00:14 |
| RST38h | a newcomer might, but there are no newcomers | 00:14 |
| acidjazz | probably to raise stock before a buy | 00:14 |
| hardaker | yes but the motivation to start one is too high. you sign up everyone else in the market for a 2 year agreement for cheap rates and you've won. | 00:14 |
| hardaker | anyway, sorry for ranting. | 00:15 |
| hardaker | sigh. | 00:15 |
| RST38h | you have not won | 00:15 |
| hardaker | next lets talk about healthy food choices in resturants with no hidden calories ;-) | 00:15 |
| wazd | RST38h: you were right, donations don't work in Russia | 00:15 |
| RST38h | just killed your margins | 00:15 |
| hardaker | not saying I have. | 00:15 |
| RST38h | wazd: well I tried in the US and they still did not work :) | 00:15 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I mean Russia can't accept donations | 00:16 |
| RST38h | wazd: Oh, that...Hmmm, so what prevents people from sendin money to your paypal account? | 00:17 |
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| wazd | RST38h: PayPal :D | 00:18 |
| wazd | RST38h: russians are only allowed to spend cash, not to earn :) | 00:18 |
| lcuk | lardman|gone, we need one of your rockets again | 00:18 |
| crashanddie_ | wazd, lmao | 00:18 |
| crashanddie_ | wazd, you have to go to the Ukraine to spend it :D | 00:18 |
| acidjazz | Jaffa: i cant login to see that stupid url it keeps kicking me back to the login page | 00:19 |
| RST38h | wazd: ahhahahaha | 00:19 |
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| RST38h | wazd: unless you have got oil or gas to sell of course :) | 00:19 |
| wazd | RST38h: anyway, looks like OMW is doomed :) | 00:20 |
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| RST38h | wazd: ah, the horror, the suffering... | 00:21 |
| RST38h | wazd: Maybe the author just needs to take a timeout | 00:21 |
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| javispedro | ~ping | 00:25 |
| infobot | ~pong | 00:25 |
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| wazd | RST38h: one of already on the timeout :) | 00:26 |
| * RST38h is running VAX validation tests, slowly and painfully | 00:26 | |
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| RST38h | 41/100000 - not bad | 00:56 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: yes, you may actually end before the universe implodes at that speed. | 01:00 |
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| Macer | can someone try out http://tech.rancorous.net and let me know if it still works from the outside in? | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | works for me | 01:07 |
| SpeedEvil | I get a page with goatse and lemonparty | 01:07 |
| Macer | er | 01:07 |
| SpeedEvil | ' It will use ARM. It will last three times as long on one charge than any other laptop and stick to refrigerators. '... | 01:07 |
| Macer | ok | 01:08 |
| Macer | haha | 01:08 |
| Macer | thanks | 01:08 |
| Macer | going to put the ubuntu image for the touchbook on there once i am done downloading it | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | do you get 6 hours out of TB? | 01:09 |
| Macer | well.. probably around 8 | 01:10 |
| Macer | on a full charge | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Is that battery life when stuck to the outside, or inside of the refrigerator? | 01:10 |
| Macer | that is when it is attached to the battery kb | 01:10 |
| Macer | the tablet itself probably lasts 2 hours :) | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | What's the all-up weight again? | 01:10 |
| Macer | i don't know | 01:11 |
| Macer | i'd say 3-5lbs? | 01:11 |
| Macer | don't have a scale though so i couldn't tell you | 01:11 |
| Macer | 2 more hours until this ubunhtu download is done tho | 01:12 |
| Macer | at least mer ran on it :) | 01:12 |
| * SpeedEvil is unsure if this is much progress. | 01:12 | |
| Macer | haha | 01:13 |
| Macer | well.. if ubuntu can run on it.. it won't be half bad | 01:13 |
| Macer | but this aios that it comes with... i want to go there and choke whoever made it | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.ciao.co.uk/Toshiba_Portege_3110CT__17232 - 1.1Kg - 7h ish battery life (once I replaced the stock batts with better cells) 10" display, ... | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | of course - it was rather more expensive to begin with | 01:14 |
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| Macer | pentium2 300MHz? :) | 01:14 |
| zerojayN900 | jaffa: thanks for the reminder. | 01:15 |
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| javispedro | Macer: 2 hours looks a bit dim. Probably bad software power management. | 01:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, those things were the worst. | 01:16 |
| Macer | javispedro: oh i'm sure | 01:16 |
| Macer | i know cpufreq isn't working on it (afaik) | 01:17 |
| Macer | which i am sure will just require a new kernel hopefully | 01:17 |
| Macer | if cpufreq was working and sleep modes worked properly i am sure it can easily last 15+ hours | 01:17 |
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| Macer | but that is something to figure out AFTER i get ubuntu on it :) | 01:18 |
| Macer | because this aios is making me lose it | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | Macer: Angstrom has been alpha-level for years. I don't expect it to change. | 01:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, actually, no, I'm thinking of something else. | 01:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, which one was Toshiba's <8" line? | 01:19 |
| timeless_mbp | andre___: wow, that's a long tail you've got there | 01:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pentium II | 01:19 |
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| Macer | luke-jr: huh? | 01:21 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: Dunno - never had one. | 01:21 |
| Macer | sounds like gentoo | 01:21 |
| * Macer hides | 01:21 | |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: This was basically a 10" netbook years before anyone thought of netbooks. | 01:21 |
| Macer | GeneralAntilles: libretto? | 01:21 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: and done better and lighter than a lot of netbooks now. | 01:21 |
| Macer | librettos were the real tiny ones weren't they? | 01:22 |
| Macer | they were far ahead of their time :) | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I think so - but memory is fading. | 01:22 |
| zerojayN900 | how do i add a screenshot to my package when its on maemo.org/downloads? | 01:22 |
| Macer | i remember someone having a P90 libretto in 96 | 01:23 |
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| Macer | for its size that was a ton of power at the time | 01:23 |
| luke-jr | Macer: no, worse than Gentoo I mean | 01:23 |
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| luke-jr | Macer: Angstrom is like 80% "latest development codebase" | 01:23 |
| luke-jr | at least Gentoo uses released versions | 01:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: increase the 800*600 to 1280*1024, bump the screen from 10.1 to 10.5, add a modern processor and wifi, and it'd be close to my ideal system. | 01:24 |
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| GAN900 | zerojayN900 floaty bar | 01:25 |
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| zerojayN900 | from which option? | 01:25 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, i.e., almost any netbook? ;) | 01:26 |
| GAN900 | zerojay, edit | 01:26 |
| zerojayN900 | got it. | 01:27 |
| zerojayN900 | i love being able to do this shit on the bus home. lol | 01:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 01:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojayN900, you don't have another device with you to update your old N810 picture, do you? :P | 01:28 |
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| zerojayN900 | lol | 01:29 |
| zerojayN900 | good idea | 01:29 |
| zerojayN900 | not atm | 01:29 |
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| zerojayN900 | jaffa: done | 01:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ha! Pitfalls of convergence! Bet you wish you had an SLR with you now. *g* | 01:29 |
| pupnik | wut | 01:33 |
| pupnik | still awake RST38h ? | 01:34 |
| pupnik | you testing somth for n900? | 01:34 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN900: generally poor build quality, no trackpoint, ... | 01:35 |
| lcuk | doesnt fit in pocket | 01:35 |
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| guysoft42 | hey all, i am trying to build a package. although running plain 'make' works fine, dpkg-buildpackage seems to have a problem, here is the output :http://pastebin.com/m7e9b2c33 | 01:41 |
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| * lcuk thanks GeneralAntilles | 01:43 | |
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| * GeneralAntilles hands lcuk some of the pocket lint he stole from geneven. | 01:44 | |
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| * lcuk puts the pocketlint into pupniks cup of tea | 01:44 | |
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| lcuk | guysoft42, that looks scary | 01:45 |
| pupnik | i has tea | 01:45 |
| lcuk | its trying to do lots of stuff with binaries | 01:45 |
| guysoft42 | lcuk, i dono, i built the package with plain 'make' and it does work.. | 01:46 |
| lcuk | how are you making the changes | 01:46 |
| * GeneralAntilles is listening to the Super Mario 64 soundtrack. | 01:46 | |
| guysoft42 | lcuk, runs on the nokia, wanted to package it for the world | 01:46 |
| lcuk | yeah | 01:46 |
| guysoft42 | lcuk, i just did apt-get source xvnc4viewer from debian | 01:46 |
| guysoft42 | then dpkg-buildpackage | 01:47 |
| guysoft42 | well with sb2 | 01:47 |
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| lcuk | yeah jeremiah have you seen anything like this before | 01:48 |
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| lcuk | lol pupnik did you have to clean your cup out? | 01:48 |
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| pupnik | is a glass cause no clean cups | 01:51 |
| pupnik | that teashop on the way to westerpark was very nice | 01:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The Boxwave protector for the 5800 works great. | 01:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully they get one for the N900. | 01:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.boxwave.com/community/request/index.htm | 01:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Select one or both ClearTouch protectors. | 01:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Poo on you, lcuk! | 02:00 |
| lcuk | for which? | 02:00 |
| lcuk | taking away my thanks? | 02:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | :(( | 02:01 |
| lcuk | hahaha | 02:01 |
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| lcuk | thats a great plan | 02:01 |
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| * absolute has officially resigned from reading "did your n900 ship today?"... i can't handle that thread anymore, i was getting kinda compulsive :) | 02:08 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol | 02:09 |
| Proteous | I went through that with my n97 | 02:10 |
| Proteous | never again | 02:10 |
| Proteous | lol | 02:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shoulda waited. :P | 02:10 |
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| Proteous | well, I did get my n97 for hella cheap due to the bug | 02:10 |
| lcuk | http://www.hasthen900shippedyet.com/ | 02:10 |
| Proteous | I wouldn't have bought it otherwise | 02:10 |
| absolute | hehe | 02:10 |
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| absolute | i was going to register something like that the other day | 02:11 |
| lcuk | someone needs to | 02:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Same with my 5800. | 02:11 |
| absolute | like the one has the lhc destroyed the universe | 02:11 |
| absolute | or how many people are in space | 02:11 |
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| lcuk | heh cool | 02:11 |
| lcuk | http://www.howmanypeopleareinspacerightnow.com/ | 02:11 |
| absolute | i realized, it doesn't matter what the thread says... even after people start getting them... it doesn't matter until the point i get an email from the vendor | 02:11 |
| absolute | yzyz | 02:11 |
| lcuk | how do you pronounce that laugh | 02:12 |
| absolute | yes yes | 02:12 |
| lcuk | :D | 02:12 |
| lcuk | ahh | 02:12 |
| absolute | haha, whelp, i've got a project for the night | 02:13 |
| absolute | i'm writing a script for last.fm | 02:13 |
| absolute | to pass the artist name | 02:13 |
| absolute | and snag all the artist images to a directory | 02:13 |
| absolute | and then i'm gonna run that on every album in my collection | 02:13 |
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| Proteous | .... | 02:14 |
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| zerojay | absolute: Don't we already have that? | 02:16 |
| absolute | think i'm basically going to use it to do slideshows on my television of the currently playing song | 02:16 |
| absolute | i don't know | 02:16 |
| absolute | maybe someone has done it | 02:16 |
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| absolute | i couldn't find one with my queries | 02:16 |
| zerojay | Are you talking about something for Maemo 5? | 02:16 |
| absolute | not specifically | 02:16 |
| zerojay | Oh, ok. | 02:17 |
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| absolute | haha, i was going to start learning GTK by making a simple gui for mpc, but someone has already done that | 02:17 |
| zerojay | absolute: I was talking about this: http://maemo.org/packages/view/google-album-art-downloader/ | 02:17 |
| absolute | ahh, nice | 02:17 |
| zerojay | I'm starting by writing a control panel app for AdBlock Plus for Maemo 5. | 02:17 |
| absolute | yeah, i have the "albumart" package on standard debian, but it requires a lot of user interaction to get them all | 02:18 |
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| absolute | if i know my artist info is accurate... i can just go into each album directory, read the file tags, and get some additional pictures to go along with them | 02:19 |
| absolute | i notice a lot of my albums have no covers | 02:19 |
| zerojay | discogs.com is also a good place to find artist info... but I have noticed that some of the newer albums aren't listed. At least the last time I checked months ago. | 02:19 |
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| dash1 | its possible to migrate maemo 4 to 5 in n810 | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | A) Some of the required hardware is too slow on the 810 | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | B) Some of it is binary components from nokia | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Mer should gain more traction on the n900 when it's released - which is open-source - and elements of that can be backported - but, it won't be maemo5 | 02:25 |
| absolute | i hear a lot of n8x0 users around here referred to Mer when they ask such questions.. but i don't know if that's applicable or of interest to you | 02:25 |
| dash1 | someone knows any program to support video chat | 02:27 |
| zerojayN900 | for what device? | 02:27 |
| dash1 | i tried with google talk with another n800 and works | 02:27 |
| absolute | doesn't skype or gtalk offer some of that stuff? | 02:27 |
| lcuk | for most people, diablo is good enough, mer will not be an option for the common masses (unfortunately) until it is part of the standard flashing procedure | 02:27 |
| dash1 | and i need video chat with nokia to pc | 02:27 |
| lcuk | for linux flashing folks who get their own images - it will work perfectly | 02:27 |
| timeless | so... | 02:28 |
| * ShadowJK suspects most people never upgraded from chinook on n810 | 02:28 | |
| timeless | one random note in case people didn't notice | 02:28 |
| timeless | the brightness slider in settings | 02:28 |
| timeless | is not a brightness slider | 02:28 |
| timeless | it's a brightness profile slider | 02:28 |
| * timeless learned that a minute ago | 02:28 | |
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| lcuk | lol timeless | 02:28 |
| ShadowJK | timeless: like on n810? | 02:28 |
| lcuk | because you dont set the brightness value | 02:28 |
| timeless | shadowjk: *shrug* | 02:30 |
| timeless | i think the n810's thing had fewer bits | 02:30 |
| timeless | i was under the impression it basically had two settings | 02:30 |
| timeless | "when there's sun", "when there's no light" | 02:30 |
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| timeless | my impression is that for the n900, we're talking about a much more complicated curve v. a two step graph | 02:31 |
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| ShadowJK | the "no light setting" being "argh my eyes that's bright" | 02:31 |
| Pavlov | why does my n900 randomly stop connecting to the 3G until i reboot? | 02:31 |
| ShadowJK | and the middle settings using the light sensor to step brightness whenever you accidentally held it at a different angle than beforee | 02:32 |
| zash | Pavlov: interference from pure envy! | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | pavlov: bug to bug compatibility with every other phone out there | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | that said, it varies lots between operators ime :/ | 02:33 |
| timeless | pavlov: i haven't had that problem | 02:33 |
| timeless | but someone else mentioned it to me recently.. | 02:33 |
| timeless | pavlov: i presume you're on tmobile? | 02:33 |
| ShadowJK | I've got two phones that I have both used on two different networks. both are rock solid on the one, but not on the other operator :/ | 02:34 |
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| dash1 | n900 when its go to buy | 02:35 |
| absolute | whenever they decide to release it | 02:36 |
| absolute | its for pre-order all over | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Except in russia I think. | 02:36 |
| absolute | right | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | (where you can't get it at all) | 02:36 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | my N810 crashed, now it can't read the removable memory card anymore, although that card seems to be ok, I can read it on a desktop computer | 02:36 |
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| absolute | he appears to be in california though | 02:37 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | is it likely something happened to the hardware? dmesg shows lots of "mmcblk1: error 1 sending read/write command end_request: I/O error, dev mmcblk1, sector 0".... about what you'd expect for a broken disk or a broken disk interface | 02:38 |
| SpeedEvil | you've tried a power cycle I assume? | 02:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, it feels like steps 1-4 are 1-4 and step 5 is about 20. | 02:38 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | yeah... with the card inside, it didn't boot at all at first, now it does, but the removable and internal card are invisible when the removable card was inside during boot | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Sounds doubleplusungood. | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Did you drop it? | 02:39 |
| Woolly | CutMeOwnThroat: try reseating the card, and giving it a magic blow. that worked for me :D | 02:40 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | before plugging the card in, I also saw some "disk full" messages which seemed to be for the internal storage | 02:40 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | Woolly, already tried that | 02:41 |
| Woolly | CutMeOwnThroat: damn :( | 02:41 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | SpeedEvil, well, yes, actually I did drop it a couple of days ago, but not before it stopped working | 02:41 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | hmpf | 02:42 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | s/not before/not immediately before/ | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd wonder about small cracks in the PCB doing stuff. Unfortunately there isn't an easy fix. | 02:43 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | perhaps I switch it off for a longer timespan | 02:44 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | SpeedEvil, you might be right - it crashed when I removed the memory card... | 02:44 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | that might have been the push on the board that opened a microcrack just that little bit more | 02:45 |
| SpeedEvil | maybe. | 02:45 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | makes me wish I hadn't removed the card | 02:45 |
| * ShadowJK would try another card | 02:45 | |
| ShadowJK | in another adapter if you're using one | 02:46 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | don't have another one | 02:46 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | yeah... adapter | 02:46 |
| SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-N810-Portable-Internet-Tablet-unlocked-MINT-CON_W0QQitemZ110446564816QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCell_Phones?hash=item19b720d5d0 | 02:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Oooh! | 02:46 |
| SpeedEvil | An unlocked n810! | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Cunning. | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | !! | 02:47 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | hehe | 02:47 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | cool! | 02:47 |
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| ShadowJK | mine randomly stopped working the other day, started working again after reseating in another adapter | 02:47 |
| dash1 | where i can install more aplication for mi nokia | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | downloads.maemo.org | 02:47 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | are all the connectors on the adapter actually doing something? | 02:48 |
| ShadowJK | eh? | 02:48 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | this looks weird, not like a damage, though, but contact 4 5 and 6 from the left-hand side aren't connected to anything on the adapter | 02:48 |
| ShadowJK | how can you tell.. | 02:49 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | there's a gap behind them, that I never noticed (why would I look closer, it worked) | 02:49 |
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| dash1 | its there any way to redirect the way to install applications in n810 | 02:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~boot-sh | 02:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~boot-sd | 02:51 |
| infobot | [boot-sd] https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card | 02:51 |
| dash1 | because i want to download all games and i dont have enough space | 02:51 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | dash1, you could just create a soft-link (if you find a file/directory that uses up much space and isn't necessary for core operation <--- that's the hard part, I guess) | 02:55 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | hmm, guess I could try buying a new adapter - that's the cheapest thing that could have failed... and I already know the card itself is fine | 02:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Do you have the 128MB/256MB MiniSD that came with it? | 02:56 |
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| * ShadowJK didn't get a minisd with it | 02:56 | |
| CutMeOwnThroat | I don't remember getting any MiniSD with it | 02:57 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | even without the card in, I get a couple of "JFFS2 warning: (1289) jiffs2_sum_write_sumnode: not enough space for summary, padsize = -660" at the end of the boot | 02:58 |
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| ShadowJK | 1gig microsd with mini and fullsize adapter is about $6-7 anyway | 03:01 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | I'll have a look in radioshack | 03:02 |
| * timeless sighs | 03:02 | |
| timeless | so... in case people are curious | 03:02 |
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| timeless | Modest supports IMAP IDLE | 03:02 |
| timeless | however the ui spec says nothing about notifying the user of new mail when IMAP IDLE informs the client of new mail | 03:02 |
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| timeless | as such, you won't be told of new mail until the regularly check interval happens | 03:03 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 03:03 |
| timeless | supposedly you can use some command to change the update interval to 1 minute | 03:03 |
| timeless | don't ask me what the command is | 03:03 |
| timeless | if someone cares, they should file a bug | 03:03 |
| timeless | probably a couple | 03:03 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | well, shitshitshitshitshitshit... just when I was able to read the sd card on the desktop :( | 03:04 |
| timeless | the modest devs claim they don't actually get a useful signal from tinymail for new mail fromimap idle | 03:04 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | thanks for the advice, though | 03:04 |
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| timeless | (they seem to indicate that tinymail just magically updates views, which doesn't quite tell them what they'd need to know, *shrug*) | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why is it that Modest is seemingly one endless string of fail? :( | 03:05 |
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| derf | I've never seen a mail client correctly implement IDLE support. | 03:07 |
| Robot101 | thunderbird isn't bad... | 03:07 |
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| derf | Though in the clients' defense it may simply be that every sever I've paid them against was broken. | 03:08 |
| derf | *paired | 03:08 |
| derf | *server | 03:08 |
| derf | Okay, I can't type tonight. | 03:08 |
| derf | Time to go home. | 03:08 |
| ShadowJK | so how big folders can modest on n900 handle before watchdog corrupts your folesystem? :) | 03:09 |
| timeless | i'd suggest avoiding folders >20k | 03:09 |
| timeless | but that's a personal thing | 03:09 |
| timeless | i was told that mailboxes of roughly 40k messages (gmail) caused serious pain | 03:09 |
| Woolly | i'm out, night all! | 03:09 |
| timeless | if not total failure | 03:10 |
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| * ShadowJK has some >22k, and it's painful with claws on n810 | 03:10 | |
| ShadowJK | but luckily it doesn't try update a folder until I open it | 03:10 |
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| timeless | oh, please note that when i talk about modest supporting IDLE, that doesn't mean the version of modest that might ship w/ a hypothetical product will actually include the rudimentary support described above :) | 03:16 |
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| timeless | re google.com/reader: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=286866 | 03:54 |
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| lcuk | timeless, the font scaling issue | 04:00 |
| lcuk | do you fancy having a walk through the code with me at some point in near future | 04:00 |
| lcuk | see if we cant solve it | 04:00 |
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| timeless | you mean the kerning issues, right? | 04:08 |
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| zerojay | If you gotta problem, yo, I'll solve it. Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it. | 04:15 |
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| howitzer` | Ice ice Maemo | 04:20 |
| pupnik | "But as JayOnThaBeat pointed out, this isn't do.maemo.org, it is talk.maemo.org. " | 04:21 |
| pupnik | - qole :) | 04:21 |
| luke-jr | lol | 04:22 |
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| lcuk | yes timeless | 04:23 |
| zerojay | howitzer`: lol | 04:24 |
| zerojay | aSIMULAtur: Gonna be one of my flygirls? lol | 04:24 |
| zerojay | heh, someone tell the authors of Solarwolf and Load Applet that the goal isn't 40 thumbs up before promotion. ;) | 04:26 |
| howitzer` | zerojay: Are you pretty fly enough for a white guy? | 04:26 |
| timeless | so, i don't really know much about it | 04:26 |
| timeless | lcuk: i'd suggest you grab a fennec build | 04:26 |
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| timeless | either on device or preferably on a desktop system | 04:26 |
| timeless | according to romaxa the same problem should occur on both | 04:27 |
| zerojay | howitzer`: Maybe not. I know I don't have a "31" tattoo. :/ | 04:27 |
| timeless | w/ a desktop system, debugging will be much easier :) | 04:27 |
| * timeless goes back to reading 100+ digests | 04:27 | |
| lcuk | ok timeless | 04:27 |
| timeless | but yeah, i'll gladly help you once you get to the gecko things | 04:27 |
| timeless | but ... it's 4:30 am | 04:27 |
| lcuk | ill first test and find out what works | 04:28 |
| * lcuk nods | 04:28 | |
| lcuk | waht fails ^ | 04:28 |
| lcuk | i meant | 04:28 |
| * GeneralAntilles knocks timeless out with a truncheon. | 04:28 | |
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| code177 | evening all | 04:34 |
| dmj7261 | evening | 04:34 |
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| code177 | how's it going | 04:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | code177, did you check the hildon-desktop code? | 04:35 |
| code177 | GeneralAntilles: I did. Are we talking about the background setting code? | 04:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 04:36 |
| code177 | Yeah I found something useful in there | 04:36 |
| code177 | However, I can't read C, and i dont know how to call or import what's in there | 04:36 |
| code177 | what with being a noob and all | 04:36 |
| code177 | :) | 04:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Harass qwerty12_N810. | 04:37 |
| * code177 pokes qwerty12_N810 | 04:37 | |
| code177 | http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/os2008/source/hildon-desktop-2.0.6/background-manager/background-manager.c is the code i was looking at | 04:37 |
| zerojay | code177: Hey. | 04:40 |
| code177 | hey jay | 04:41 |
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| code177 | what's new? | 04:42 |
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| zerojay | Nothing much. Trying to see if I've implemented those package translations correctly for the moment, then I'm gonna crack my knuckles and start trying to write up that control panel applet for Adblock Plus. | 04:45 |
| zerojay | Wish I wasn't moving in two weeks. Gonna put a huge dent into my time until it's done. | 04:45 |
| code177 | Ooh. Moving is harsh | 04:46 |
| code177 | Good move or bad move? | 04:47 |
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| zerojay | Well, big move. | 04:48 |
| zerojay | The game company I work for is opening a new studio in Halifax so I'm moving over there to shore up the talent there. | 04:48 |
| zerojay | And we're pretty much doing everything in two weeks. Finding an apartment, packing, all that shit. | 04:49 |
| zerojay | Thankfully, my company is paying for all of it. | 04:49 |
| code177 | holy crap | 04:49 |
| code177 | Halifax eh. | 04:49 |
| code177 | Gotta go there one day | 04:49 |
| code177 | well that's a plus, on the expenses side | 04:49 |
| zerojay | Yeah, mainly for my wife and kid who don't know French well or at all. Helps my wife get a job much easier... but also gives me a chance to start over in a new place at zero cost to me. | 04:50 |
| zerojay | I'll be leaving on Halloween... and it was exactly 4 years ago on Halloween that I joined the company. | 04:50 |
| zerojay | Heard nice things about the place. As much as I love Quebec, I pretty much had to jump on the chance. | 04:51 |
| howitzer` | To Hallofax on Haliween | 04:51 |
| zerojay | Plus, looks good to my bosses. Makes 'em love me even more. | 04:51 |
| code177 | i know how that goes :) | 04:52 |
| code177 | well, good luck | 04:52 |
| code177 | hope it all goes smoothly for ya | 04:52 |
| pupnik | helofax | 04:53 |
| zerojay | Thanks. Me too. I hope I can be back online and working on Maemo stuff ASAP. | 04:53 |
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| code177 | hey qole | 04:54 |
| qole | hey fellow Vancouverite | 04:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | We're never going to see zerojay again. | 04:54 |
| lcuk | code177, | 04:54 |
| zerojay | yo. | 04:54 |
| howitzer` | Isn't that what Maemo is for, being online all the time? | 04:54 |
| zerojay | lol | 04:54 |
| code177 | hey lcuk | 04:54 |
| lcuk | there is bad news | 04:54 |
| zerojay | howitzer`: I'll be online. | 04:54 |
| code177 | what is it? | 04:54 |
| lcuk | the hildon desktop code you are looking at is the internal manager | 04:54 |
| code177 | wait | 04:54 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Oh come on now. lol | 04:54 |
| code177 | you better wrap this in good news | 04:54 |
| lcuk | thats not the external api | 04:55 |
| qole | wow, this version of xchat is way better | 04:55 |
| lcuk | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3030 | 04:55 |
| code177 | i want a good-news-bad-news sandwich | 04:55 |
| lcuk | this is the other part | 04:55 |
| zerojay | code177: We have Cheetos is your good news. | 04:55 |
| lcuk | its fixed in harmattan | 04:55 |
| zerojay | qole: Which version? | 04:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, yeah, we'll see. *eg* | 04:55 |
| code177 | zerojay: I cant eat wheat so that's also bad news | 04:55 |
| code177 | :P | 04:55 |
| lcuk | hi qole \o | 04:55 |
| lcuk | ive just had my head in 50 websites | 04:55 |
| qole | fremantle version | 04:55 |
| code177 | ya looked at that one lcuk =/ | 04:55 |
| zerojay | code177: Cheetos has wheat? | 04:55 |
| lcuk | code177, thats the one you need tho | 04:55 |
| code177 | well | 04:55 |
| lcuk | since the desktop is still hildon | 04:55 |
| code177 | actually to be correct, i can't eat Fructose | 04:55 |
| zerojay | qole: Mine crashes left and right if I change any preferences. | 04:55 |
| code177 | because i can metabolise it | 04:56 |
| lcuk | how about bacon | 04:56 |
| code177 | <3 bacon | 04:56 |
| code177 | and fructose is in corn, wheat etc | 04:56 |
| * lcuk will continue the fennec installation tomorrow | 04:56 | |
| qole | cheetos has food of any sort? | 04:56 |
| lcuk | xulrunner and fennec | 04:56 |
| mfinkle | lcuk: let me know if you have any problems | 04:56 |
| zerojay | qole: No kidding. lol | 04:56 |
| code177 | lcuk: I refuse to believe there's no way to do it in freemantle | 04:56 |
| code177 | lol | 04:56 |
| * code177 is persistent | 04:56 | |
| lcuk | code177, ill add api to liqbase for you ;) | 04:56 |
| * GeneralAntilles takes away code177's extras e's. | 04:57 | |
| code177 | thanks | 04:57 |
| lcuk | infact liqbase already directly supports using http: as image name | 04:57 |
| qole | I need to make an echowb style theme for fremantle | 04:57 |
| code177 | lcuk: is that going to help me set the background though? :) | 04:57 |
| lcuk | mfinkle, theres a lot of code | 04:57 |
| lcuk | and many layers | 04:57 |
| lcuk | i am just peeling it back carefully | 04:57 |
| mfinkle | :) | 04:57 |
| lcuk | code177, well | 04:58 |
| lcuk | there is another way | 04:58 |
| lcuk | you have found the code for the background manager | 04:58 |
| lcuk | how often do you want to change code | 04:58 |
| lcuk | change background | 04:58 |
| qole | the scrollbars are tiny. Why didn't they make the scrollbars fat? | 04:59 |
| lcuk | cos text in more important in irc :P | 04:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, because there are no scrollbars? | 04:59 |
| qole | ah, right. no AIDS in China either | 05:00 |
| lcuk | code177, which thread is your project on, lemme just read the outline again | 05:00 |
| pupnik | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=27833 New Bugzilla Jar - pls read! | 05:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, HildonPannableArea | 05:00 |
| qole | Just say it isn't so and it isn't so! | 05:00 |
| code177 | lcuk: it's not on one at the moment - i need to be able to set the desktop background | 05:00 |
| lcuk | on diablo or fremantle or both | 05:01 |
| code177 | fremantle | 05:01 |
| lcuk | and on a schedule | 05:01 |
| lcuk | or just change it | 05:01 |
| code177 | the schedule is the easy bit | 05:01 |
| code177 | chjanging it is the hard bit | 05:01 |
| code177 | and also changing all of the desktops as necessary | 05:01 |
| lcuk | ok, so there is already a control panel/config area for it | 05:01 |
| lcuk | you have found it | 05:01 |
| code177 | yup, but i have no idea how to implement that into my code | 05:01 |
| lcuk | yes but what are you wanting to implement | 05:01 |
| lcuk | what is different from the changing of the background that is there now | 05:02 |
| qole | how do I auto-type someone's nick in xchat? | 05:02 |
| lcuk | type a bit and press tab | 05:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, figure out how to bind tab to fn-right arrow. | 05:02 |
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| lcuk | code177, i seethe background select could need improvements and a replacement for it could be made | 05:03 |
| qole | GeneralAntilles, HildonPannableArea is nice, but not every app uses it. | 05:03 |
| lcuk | since i believe that desktop change manager you are looking at is a plugin | 05:03 |
| lcuk | (might be wrong) | 05:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, then those apps need fixing. ;) | 05:04 |
| qole | Gen | 05:04 |
| Macer | woop | 05:04 |
| Macer | have ubuntu on the touchbook | 05:04 |
| qole | GeneralAntilles, yes, so say | 05:04 |
| pupnik | i see there's a crashreporter? | 05:04 |
| Macer | meiz is awesome :) | 05:04 |
| qole | arghhhhh | 05:04 |
| zerojay | qole: Crash? | 05:05 |
| qole | GeneralAntilles, yes, so says the Party. | 05:05 |
| code177 | lcuk: so i have a python based application. within this is/will be a wallpaper manager of sorts. i need to be able to click "set as background", for example, and have my application call whatever code is necessary to change the background of the device | 05:05 |
| qole | no just fumblefingers | 05:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, I'm going to start stealing your pocket lint. | 05:05 |
| qole | is there a ctrl-key combo for tab? | 05:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, but there's some way we can bind one. | 05:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just haven't figured out that secret yet. | 05:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | HAL is trying to scramble my brains. | 05:06 |
| qole | ctrl-i is cool, it cycles through various screens | 05:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, use the volume rocker. | 05:07 |
| qole | GeneralAntilles, that's interesting, switches between channels | 05:08 |
| zerojay | didn't know about that. Neato. | 05:08 |
| lcuk | isnt ctrl + i tab, or some such, pupnik did you know the keycodes | 05:08 |
| pupnik | changing font size in xchat crashed for me | 05:08 |
| pupnik | yes | 05:08 |
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| pupnik | never found one for | or [] | 05:09 |
| qole | oh ctrl-i launches and closes a new xchat window | 05:09 |
| pupnik | right | 05:09 |
| zerojay | pupnik: Even leaving xchat open, changing nothing and hitting save on the preferences dialog crashes it. | 05:09 |
| pupnik | ahhh | 05:09 |
| qole | doesn't complete a user's name | 05:09 |
| zerojay | qwerty12 recommended using the previous version instead. | 05:10 |
| pupnik | xchat does, with tab iirc | 05:10 |
| qole | how do i autocomplete a users name? | 05:10 |
| pupnik | tab | 05:10 |
| qole | on the n900 | 05:10 |
| zerojay | You don't. | 05:10 |
| lcuk | bt keyboard :D | 05:10 |
| lcuk | i dunno | 05:10 |
| qole | what's the ctrl-key equivalent of tab? | 05:11 |
| lcuk | i never got it to work on 810 either | 05:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, figure out how to change the bindings. | 05:11 |
| lcuk | i disliked strongly using it | 05:11 |
| lcuk | and just left peoples nicks incomplete | 05:11 |
| lcuk | the users you are talking to know who you mean | 05:11 |
| lcuk | its just a prob if you want to ping someone | 05:11 |
| qole | I'll eventually do the bindings change thing... | 05:12 |
| lcuk | yeah | 05:13 |
| lcuk | which key will you sacrifice tho | 05:13 |
| qole | just a real pain | 05:13 |
| pupnik | 5 keys with no FN+ bindings | 05:13 |
| lcuk | yeah and has to be done after every flash | 05:13 |
| pupnik | take pick | 05:13 |
| qole | I never use € | 05:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Plus fn-shift. | 05:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Plenty of empty keys. | 05:13 |
| qole | nor £ | 05:13 |
| lcuk | we should use keesj's push N Button to get outer edge | 05:14 |
| lcuk | and add tab | 05:14 |
| lcuk | you just did | 05:14 |
| lcuk | hang on | 05:14 |
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| qole | fn+backspace should be tab | 05:14 |
| lcuk | if there really is no actual way to get a tab at the moment | 05:14 |
| lcuk | with any key combos | 05:14 |
| lcuk | isnt NOW the time to suggest one :$ | 05:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, I'd do esc for that. | 05:15 |
| lcuk | before release | 05:15 |
| qole | fn+enter then | 05:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | fn-right arrow | 05:15 |
| lcuk | i like fn+enter | 05:15 |
| qole | yes, bing! | 05:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or maybe pg up/down and home/end for arrow keys. | 05:15 |
| qole | fn-right | 05:15 |
| lcuk | or fn+ <- | 05:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | But this is all academic until we figure out how to make it work. :P | 05:16 |
| qole | shift-arrows can be those keys | 05:16 |
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| qole | xmodmap? | 05:16 |
| code177 | lol | 05:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, doesn't work. | 05:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | The symbols file doesn't work. | 05:16 |
| lcuk | im thinking file a bug with an implementabl fix rather than just a complaint | 05:16 |
| qole | ?!? | 05:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | HAL doesn't work. | 05:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't know what needs to happen and how. | 05:16 |
| qole | xmodmap doesn't work???? | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Emailed -developers but nobody useful responded. | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Either it completely unbinds the key or it doesn't do shit. | 05:17 |
| lcuk | nahhh they mod the keyboards for all countries they know | 05:18 |
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| qole | xbindkeys? | 05:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haven't tried. | 05:19 |
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| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEH_qI7LVGE | 05:20 |
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| ShadowJK | Oh hey, people who went to N900 meetup in helsinki also say that the nokia people said mid-november :-) | 05:21 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: yeah, that's what the Pandora people said last year | 05:22 |
| luke-jr | DON'T FALL FOR IT | 05:22 |
| qole | mid november sounds nothing like late october | 05:22 |
| microlith | :( | 05:22 |
| cotigao | hi, any idea about the codecs used on n900? | 05:22 |
| qole | yes, records in mp4 | 05:23 |
| Mousey | cotigao: apt-get install w32codecs | 05:23 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 05:23 |
| qole | h264 | 05:23 |
| luke-jr | Mousey: uh, no | 05:23 |
| Mousey | awwwww | 05:23 |
| lcuk | the n950 will record in mp6 | 05:24 |
| Mousey | cotigao: apt-get install ffmpeg! | 05:24 |
| cotigao | Mousey, i mean are they from TI-openmax ? | 05:24 |
| ShadowJK | cotigao, I believe so | 05:24 |
| qole | yeah, no. w32codecs only works in x86 | 05:24 |
| cotigao | Mousey, wat abt the audio system/manager? | 05:24 |
| cotigao | ShadowJK, | 05:24 |
| Mousey | cotigao: asking wrong rodent | 05:24 |
| Mousey | pulseaudio! like the pre! | 05:25 |
| ShadowJK | dunno about audio | 05:25 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 05:25 |
| cotigao | ShadowJk, Mousey, thanks! | 05:25 |
| * Mousey says things baselessly | 05:25 | |
| timeless | slipping is a function of management :) | 05:25 |
| lcuk | qole, you know lots of desktop apps, if hildon werent locked to 800*480, whats the smallest practical limit they would go to before they break | 05:25 |
| Mousey | cotigao: i am LYING | 05:25 |
| Mousey | the truth is, i have no idea | 05:25 |
| cotigao | Mousey, thanks for the lie then ;) | 05:26 |
| Mousey | =P | 05:26 |
| ShadowJK | timeless, can I pretend it would've been end of october hadn't you had vacation? :-) | 05:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, no more vacations for timeless! | 05:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | No more sleep either! | 05:27 |
| qole | vlc works well, nicely optimised, but no gui | 05:27 |
| lcuk | even if timeless had a vacation, he still did not get behind his schedule - he is timeless | 05:27 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, seems like he's had less sleep than I have this night | 05:27 |
| qole | the n900 uses pulseaudio | 05:27 |
| lcuk | lol qole, how well would things cope at 320*480 | 05:27 |
| Mousey | lol! i was so guessing! | 05:28 |
| qole | sorry i was answering codec questions | 05:28 |
| Mousey | qole: lets not forget w64codecs! | 05:28 |
| Mousey | we need wARMcodecs! | 05:28 |
| qole | i think the Pre took most of the infrastructure from Maemo | 05:28 |
| Mousey | wOMAPcodecs? | 05:28 |
| dmj7261 | How linuxy is the pre? | 05:29 |
| Mousey | qole: nah, more like openembeddd | 05:29 |
| ShadowJK | The amount of stuff that you'd need w32codecs for is so small these days... | 05:29 |
| Mousey | dmj7261: very nearly as linuxy as maemo | 05:29 |
| Mousey | ipkg in stead of dpkg | 05:29 |
| dmj7261 | wow | 05:29 |
| Mousey | ipkg as found in Openwrt, etc | 05:29 |
| ShadowJK | But no X | 05:29 |
| Mousey | no, no X | 05:29 |
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| Mousey | not YET | 05:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ew, ipkg. | 05:29 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 05:29 |
| Mousey | GeneralAntilles: racist | 05:29 |
| Mousey | i prefer dpkg too tho | 05:30 |
| lcuk | so, how do you do windowing when you have no x | 05:30 |
| Mousey | javascript | 05:30 |
| ShadowJK | well even if you managed to get X on there it wouldn't work well together with the existing system that bangs the fb | 05:30 |
| Mousey | they have some layer called Luna | 05:30 |
| * lcuk nods | 05:30 | |
| dmj7261 | how does one control vlc without a gui or is there basic play/pause etc gui? | 05:30 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, you would composite x | 05:31 |
| lcuk | and show the x11 windows within a luna surface | 05:31 |
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| lcuk | it wouldnt be ideal | 05:31 |
| lcuk | but it would work | 05:31 |
| Mousey | the nseries has it all over the pre on resolution too tho | 05:31 |
| qole | lcuk, what was your question to me? I don't understand it | 05:31 |
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| Mousey | but the pre is a real iphone killer.. i can't really compare the pre and the n[89]xx | 05:32 |
| lcuk | you have played with many many apps in your time, from what you know how well would they cope if you dropped the res to iphone sizes | 05:32 |
| lcuk | or pre sizes | 05:32 |
| Mousey | (same size) | 05:32 |
| lcuk | or n97 sizes (a bit bigger) | 05:32 |
| lcuk | i know | 05:32 |
| lcuk | does the x11 matchbox paradigm hold enough | 05:33 |
| lcuk | to even consider | 05:33 |
| Mousey | i don't really like matchbox.. it's apples and oranges.. | 05:33 |
| Mousey | the hi res on the nseries is perfect for stylus, but lo res is better for fingers | 05:33 |
| qole | lcuk, they barely scale down to 800x480 | 05:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mousey, #webos. | 05:33 |
| Mousey | yah, sorry | 05:34 |
| lcuk | qole, what about now | 05:34 |
| lcuk | when we are thinking in terms of finger friendly | 05:34 |
| lcuk | and higer dpi | 05:34 |
| * Mousey stfu's and waits for n900 | 05:34 | |
| lcuk | ie less info on screen | 05:34 |
| lcuk | do you think fremantle type apps would scale down resolution wise | 05:35 |
| pupnik | with those big ass buttons yes, if lower res screen also had lower dpi | 05:35 |
| lcuk | well those big ass buttons and big fonts could just be shrink yeah pp | 05:35 |
| lcuk | thats what im thinking | 05:35 |
| qole | yes, once you've gone to all the trouble to castra um hildonise the app, the fancy screen is wasted. | 05:36 |
| lcuk | heh | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, :roll: | 05:36 |
| pupnik | wasted to the sensibilities of old pharts | 05:36 |
| lcuk | curvy glyphs and nice ui | 05:37 |
| lcuk | single we think pre is most similar, i wonder what the possibility would be | 05:37 |
| lcuk | and of course then n97 | 05:37 |
| * lcuk really likes the hardware of n97 | 05:37 | |
| lcuk | the tilting screen is lovely | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Too bad S60 is junk. | 05:38 |
| pupnik | yes, but i prefer the n900 kbd | 05:38 |
| Firebird | hm, is it possible to have one of those dialog box things not fade out the background? | 05:38 |
| lcuk | yeah just dont use one of those dialog things | 05:38 |
| lcuk | but why tho | 05:38 |
| qole | maemo 5 doesn't have dialogue boxes | 05:38 |
| lcuk | its a ui paradigm | 05:38 |
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| pupnik | hm | 05:40 |
| Firebird | lcuk, trying to fit this: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=3535hrp&s=3 to 800x<480 nicely | 05:40 |
| Firebird | I have this: http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8451/screenshot14d.png , but, well, its crap | 05:41 |
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| lcuk | the text in bottom right | 05:42 |
| lcuk | is that readable at 266dpi? | 05:42 |
| lcuk | or 250 or whatever it is | 05:42 |
| Firebird | lcuk, that's not in the SDK, in the SDK the text is gigantic | 05:42 |
| lcuk | so screenie what you have there | 05:43 |
| Firebird | huh? I have tab widgets inside tabwidgets to fit everything, not really ideal | 05:43 |
| lcuk | btw, qole came up with an ingenious sdk test solution. on the sdk install VNC server. on your n810 install vnc client. make a connection and bish bash bosh | 05:44 |
| lcuk | especially valid now the sdk includes loads of apps | 05:44 |
| Firebird | oh, nice idea | 05:44 |
| lcuk | qole, take a bow :P | 05:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | qole, did the video of your interview ever end up online? | 05:50 |
| Firebird | awesome, colors aren't messed up through VNC | 05:51 |
| qole | lcuk, no video yet | 05:52 |
| Macer | what engine gdoes arora use? | 05:52 |
| lcuk | Firebird, i gather you are gonna use this again | 05:52 |
| qole | Firebird, your screenshot is readable on the N900, but very busy | 05:53 |
| Firebird | lcuk, "this" being the VNC method? | 05:53 |
| Firebird | qole, yea, that's why its labeled "delayed" on my site since I haven't figured out how to cram everything on the screen yet | 05:54 |
| lcuk | yes | 05:54 |
| Firebird | yes then lcuk , very useful | 05:54 |
| Firebird | except its a bit slow | 05:54 |
| Firebird | but then again, so is my SDK | 05:54 |
| dmj7261 | perhaps give the app "workspaces"? | 05:54 |
| lcuk | yeah, its just useful to get a bit more perpective | 05:54 |
| qole | oops GeneralAntilles not lcuk | 05:55 |
| Firebird | dmj7261, not really good for poker | 05:55 |
| lcuk | Firebird, you are thinking like a porter | 05:55 |
| qole | GeneralAntilles, no video ever appeared. | 05:55 |
| lcuk | think like you are doing it from scratch | 05:55 |
| lcuk | i guessed as much qole lol | 05:55 |
| * qole cries | 05:55 | |
| Firebird | lcuk, well, I have designer and gimp open trying to arrange everything | 05:56 |
| Firebird | blank slate | 05:56 |
| * lcuk just draws on screen until something looks right | 05:56 | |
| lcuk | then makes it in code | 05:56 |
| Firebird | of course, I could get rid of chat, log, and chance... but what fun is that | 05:57 |
| dmj7261 | lots of wasted space between the rows of players | 05:57 |
| lcuk | why get rid | 05:57 |
| Macer | installing kde4 on the tb now :) | 05:57 |
| Macer | woop! | 05:57 |
| Firebird | lcuk, too much? | 05:57 |
| lcuk | you can remove from the default view | 05:57 |
| lcuk | but you dont need to get rid | 05:57 |
| lcuk | perhaps the blurry fade might work | 05:58 |
| Firebird | yea, but then that would cover up the cards | 05:58 |
| Firebird | disadvantage, since the turns are timed | 05:58 |
| lcuk | have you seen canola | 05:58 |
| lcuk | with multi layered dialogs | 05:58 |
| lcuk | they appear from the side tho | 05:58 |
| lcuk | your ui could have different focus layers almost | 05:58 |
| Macer | wtf | 05:58 |
| lcuk | for your stuff, the middle stuff and the background stuff | 05:58 |
| Firebird | lcuk, I was already moving the non essential stuff to separate popup dialogs but that covers up the game table | 05:59 |
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| qole | Firebird, what about swiping to go to different screens? | 06:01 |
| qole | or a bigger pannable area? | 06:01 |
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| pupnik | wonder if tilt-to-pan could be feasible | 06:03 |
| lcuk | impractical tho pupnik | 06:03 |
| lcuk | might work with a modifier | 06:03 |
| lcuk | otherwise every movement you make will adjust it | 06:04 |
| qole | g'nite all | 06:04 |
| pupnik | < viridior> some new ARM stuff on gcc-4.4.2, building a new toolchain for it | 06:04 |
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| lcuk | gnite qole \o nice to see you on here | 06:04 |
| Macer | blah. trying to get kde goign on this tb | 06:05 |
| samad | how can i check the model number of device ? is there any API ? | 06:05 |
| pupnik | gcc 4.4.1 had OMAP3 optimizations. | 06:05 |
| pupnik | uname -a | 06:05 |
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| Firebird | blarg, guess I'll have to use separate dialogs for chat and other stuff like that | 06:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Firebird, flite! | 06:07 |
| Firebird | flite? text to speech? | 06:07 |
| lcuk | :D haha gen | 06:07 |
| lcuk | great idea | 06:07 |
| lcuk | thats novel | 06:07 |
| Firebird | would make taunting a whole lot easier >_> | 06:08 |
| Firebird | are fullscreen apps not preferred? | 06:09 |
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| pupnik | i prefer all data output from device to be morse-coded vibrations | 06:12 |
| code177 | jees | 06:12 |
| code177 | ok, i fold | 06:12 |
| code177 | anyone got any good tips on progress bars + threads? | 06:13 |
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| code177 | specifically, i have to process some thumbnails, and whilst that's happening i'd like to have a progress bar going | 06:13 |
| code177 | so im guessing threads are needed. | 06:13 |
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| Firebird | code177, not really, you could process thumbnails, then update the progress bar in the same frame | 06:16 |
| code177 | cant do that with python without threads afaik | 06:18 |
| Firebird | eh? you can't run one function after another in python? | 06:18 |
| code177 | not and have them run simultaneously | 06:18 |
| code177 | i could be wrong | 06:19 |
| Firebird | you don't need them to be simultaneous.... store a variable with the current progress, thumbnail processor sets it to processed/total.... progress bar uses fraction.. tada, a moving progressbar while the thumbnails are going | 06:21 |
| lcuk | code177, im as guilty as you for thumbnailing, but "tracker" does thumbnailing itself | 06:22 |
| lcuk | automagically | 06:22 |
| lcuk | for all images i believe | 06:22 |
| code177 | what's tracker? | 06:22 |
| lcuk | i dont know how to query it | 06:22 |
| lcuk | i asked a while ago | 06:22 |
| lcuk | tracker is the system meta data search and extractor thingy | 06:22 |
| code177 | Firebird: that's what i thought too, but the hildon note the progress bar is in seems to free everything else from going | 06:23 |
| code177 | ah | 06:23 |
| code177 | all this stuff should be super simple to do | 06:23 |
| code177 | i dont understand why it isnt | 06:23 |
| code177 | lol | 06:23 |
| code177 | =/ | 06:23 |
| code177 | (yes, that was a wistful lol) | 06:23 |
| pupnik | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300 Add 'send via bluetooth' to file manager feature request | 06:24 |
| Firebird | hildon note? | 06:24 |
| code177 | mmhm | 06:24 |
| Firebird | mm | 06:24 |
| code177 | hildon.Note("cancel". window, "title", progressbar) | 06:24 |
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| pupnik | javispedro's snes port getting well-deserved attention: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/09/30/video-snes-runs-beautifully-on-n900-makes-out-hearts-flutter/ | 06:41 |
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| zerojay | His port is great, but I really have to wonder how much SNES these people have played recently. | 06:43 |
| zerojay | Particularly one person that said Street Fighter ran perfectly when half of the combos are now impossible to do because of the framerate. | 06:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah. :\ | 06:44 |
| zerojay | Not javis's fault by any means, but when you can't even fly with Mario in SMB3 because of the frameskip being so high, it's a major playability issue. | 06:45 |
| zerojay | And playing with a wiimote on top of that is so much worse. | 06:46 |
| zerojay | Because the wiimote has a randomish lag not caused by just using BT alone. | 06:47 |
| zerojay | Nor caused by wiicontrol. | 06:47 |
| zerojay | Wiimotes just don't do latency too well. | 06:47 |
| Firebird | now to disappear to school... | 06:49 |
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| pupnik | n900 - Ctrl-Shift-I enables text reflowing on browser zoom | 06:51 |
| code177 | ok guys wtf | 06:51 |
| code177 | gobject.GError: Image type 'jpg' is not supported ?? | 06:52 |
| code177 | seriously? | 06:52 |
| pupnik | heh | 06:52 |
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| code177 | talk about an uphill struggle | 06:54 |
| code177 | no matches on google | 06:55 |
| code177 | so i'm looking at you people :) | 06:55 |
| code177 | ah hah | 06:57 |
| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUCc2C4JPJE Maemo Web Browser Tips and Tricks | 06:57 |
| pupnik | :/ | 06:57 |
| code177 | it only takes jpeg | 06:57 |
| pupnik | :D | 06:57 |
| pupnik | no wai | 06:57 |
| code177 | that's retarded | 06:57 |
| code177 | this is one of those "common knowledge" things i guess cause it's not documented anywhere lol | 06:58 |
| pupnik | that's development | 06:58 |
| pupnik | bump into wall - ow | 06:58 |
| pupnik | walk around it | 06:58 |
| pupnik | bbump into next wall... | 06:58 |
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| dmj7261 | anyone going to be in chicago? | 07:15 |
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| pupnik | http://xreal.sourceforge.net/xrealwiki/ScreenShots heavily modified q3a engine | 07:43 |
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| johnx | craziness | 07:45 |
| johnx | not quite understanding the "hardware occlusion culling". is that to deal with overdraw? | 07:45 |
| johnx | (is overdraw still a problem on nvidia/ati chipsets or do they have some kind of workaround now?) | 07:46 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: ? | 07:46 |
| Macer | you around? | 07:46 |
| johnx | Macer, still pretty early :) | 07:46 |
| Macer | oh yeah... damn europeans :) | 07:47 |
| derf | johnx: They have a workaround. It's called a Z buffer. | 07:47 |
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| Macer | damn. was wondering if he had made a kenrel for the tb yet with cpufreq | 07:47 |
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| Macer | i have ubuntu/kde running on it now :) | 07:47 |
| Macer | it is awesome | 07:48 |
| johnx | right, and the z-buffer has been around for a while, but I thought they still suffered pretty badly from overdraw | 07:48 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | dmj7261, anything interesting happening there? | 07:48 |
| derf | johnx: There's EarlyZ stuff for NVIDIA at least, but that's tricky to get to actually work. | 07:48 |
| derf | Which is mainly designed to avoid running fragment programs for pixels that will eventually get culled anyway. | 07:49 |
| johnx | so the powerVR architecture still *does* have a purpose :) | 07:49 |
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| dmj7261 | CutMeOwnThroat: just a nokia event | 07:52 |
| pupnik | http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.4/changes.html we need gcc 4.4.1 - 4.4.2! | 07:53 |
| johnx | wow. a world with no more a.out? | 07:55 |
| microlith | o_O uint128_t | 07:56 |
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| johnx | pupnik, errr...what new feature were you looking forward to? | 07:56 |
| johnx | I see cortex-a9 stuff, but nothing a8 related (just glanced) | 07:57 |
| Macer | Mem: 233000 228776 4224 0 1788 43924 | 07:57 |
| Macer | haha | 07:57 |
| Macer | kde is murdering the memory on this thing :) | 07:57 |
| derf | johnx: "hardware occlusion culling" could mean lots of things, though. | 07:58 |
| derf | For example, I've seen a system with 2 GPUs where one GPU was dedicated to doing (conservative) occlusion culling, and the other GPU rendered the polygons that passed through the first GPU. | 07:59 |
| derf | For rendering models with hundreds of millions of polygons. | 07:59 |
| pupnik | i hear omap3 optimizations since 4.4.1 | 08:01 |
| pupnik | that link was not useful sorry | 08:01 |
| johnx | derf, was that for some kind of professional rendering setup? like rendering cg for a movie? | 08:02 |
| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY_6I3kMXko omap3530 @ 850 mhz running dosbox with dynamic recompilation: at 4:15 you can see dark forces running 3d software rendering - emulated | 08:02 |
| derf | johnx: Academic research, mostly, I think. | 08:02 |
| derf | I don't know if anyone actually _used_ it for anything. | 08:02 |
| RST38h | pupnik,derf,johnx,Macer: moo all | 08:03 |
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| johnx | RST38h, m00f | 08:06 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | dmj7261, well, I live real close | 08:07 |
| Macer | RST38h: hello | 08:09 |
| Macer | i am confused about this touchbook | 08:09 |
| Macer | it can detect both batteries but ... it doesn't seem to be able to stat both | 08:09 |
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| derf | Wow, there's a Fortran 2008. | 08:13 |
| pupnik | http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/8139/dilbertopcake.jpg Pandora Cake | 08:14 |
| microlith | better be good cake | 08:14 |
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| RST38h | So, what is the current excuse at their web site | 08:15 |
| RST38h | ? | 08:15 |
| johnx | RST38h, moulds are in production, boards are in production | 08:15 |
| johnx | CE testing is either scheduled or already happened | 08:16 |
| johnx | (don't remember) | 08:16 |
| * RST38h facepalms | 08:16 | |
| johnx | I guess their case company has said they'll have the first set of injected parts out next week | 08:17 |
| johnx | still seems like it could be a dead heat between the N900 and Pandora :) | 08:18 |
| RST38h | Yea, the race is heating up, with both devices running full speed into oblivion | 08:19 |
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| johnx | at the very least, the collection of games and emulators for both looks pretty fantastic | 08:21 |
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| Ceron^ | who wants that pandora device anyway O_O | 08:31 |
| johnx | me | 08:32 |
| johnx | I ordered it after all | 08:32 |
| RST38h | you still want it? | 08:33 |
| johnx | RST38h, yeah, definitely | 08:33 |
| RST38h | hmm | 08:33 |
| johnx | now I have a nice maemo-powered phone, but now that it's a phone it kinda means I can't really have it in a hacked-up half-working state | 08:34 |
| johnx | this is kind of an unfortunate situation for an amateur distro-hacker | 08:35 |
| johnx | plus, it's hard to say no to tons more battery life and a host usb port :) | 08:35 |
| sulx | johnx: dualboot? | 08:36 |
| sulx | one working setup and one for hacking | 08:36 |
| keesj | johnx: yes that is a realy problem. I will blog about that | 08:36 |
| johnx | sulx, and if someone calls me while I'm booted into my "hacking" setup? | 08:37 |
| keesj | it's do damm usefull as phone | 08:37 |
| johnx | I've always been all about the dual-device setup though :) | 08:37 |
| sulx | johnx: 2 phones...;) | 08:37 |
| keesj | virtualisation? | 08:38 |
| johnx | sulx, no fun to have two things exactly the same :) | 08:38 |
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| keesj | and it's only real fun if its something you carry with you | 08:39 |
| johnx | heh...just thought of the fact that I could use a pandora to *charge* an n900 :D | 08:41 |
| pupnik | heh | 08:42 |
| pupnik | hope we can do easy bluetooth p2p gaming | 08:42 |
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| johnx | yeah. really hoping for lots of fun compatibility between all these nice portable (real) linux devices that have started appearing | 08:44 |
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| Macer | hm | 09:00 |
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| pupnik | http://www.otaco.de/ gloost opengl framework - looks like es 2.0 will be supported phps | 09:11 |
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| pupnik | http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?/topic/49293-sgx-opengl-es-2-0-application-development-recommendations/ Sgx Opengl Es 2.0 Application Development Recommendations (and limitations) | 09:16 |
| pupnik | "If you need to do simple integer scaling w/o filtering then you might be better off doing it in software with NEON, depending on the scale ratio. If you're scaling down by an integer amount then you'll always be better off doing this. | 09:18 |
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| pupnik | flag to RST38h | 09:25 |
| pupnik | looks like we could get fast gl accel scaling on n8x0 using pbuffer | 09:26 |
| Summeli | pupnik: it's not that fast | 09:27 |
| Summeli | I used the pbuffer for scaling with N95, which is quite close to same HW as N95 | 09:27 |
| Summeli | as N810 even :) | 09:27 |
| Summeli | stupid and simple table based scaling is faster, and looks even better than the GL one http://www.summeli.fi/?p=1227 | 09:28 |
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| Summeli | you'll get the filttering for free with the GL, but the result looks kind of 'blurry' | 09:30 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Actually I do filtering :) | 09:30 |
| RST38h | pupnik: But you probably never notice it in my stuff ;) | 09:30 |
| Summeli | RST38h: then your fillter is probably better than it would be with the gl :) | 09:31 |
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| RST38h | Multiple people said scaling with gles may not be very fast on N900 | 09:32 |
| pupnik | hmm | 09:32 |
| pupnik | ty Summeli, RST38h | 09:33 |
| Summeli | RST38h: I think you could do it quite well with the shaders | 09:33 |
| pupnik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-order_%28curve%29 Powervr SGX stores texture data in special format - converted on the fly | 09:33 |
| Summeli | I'm thinking about running some benchmarks when I have the HW. | 09:33 |
| RST38h | Summeli: I do not know the details yet but it looks like setting up the texture has to be done every time for scaling and it is time consuming | 09:33 |
| Summeli | RST38h: agree, that's the problem with previous gl es version too | 09:34 |
| pupnik | is there not a media-accelerator chip that can do scaled blits? | 09:34 |
| dmj7261 | how difficult would an ogre port be? | 09:38 |
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| BBNS | dmj7261, OGLES2 is non-fixed pipeline. the whole entity rendering pipeline has to be re-written. | 09:43 |
| pupnik | http://imaginationtec.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=232&PN=1 and the more definitive thread from the powervr devs themselves | 09:44 |
| dmj7261 | perhaps it could be compiled sans fixed function support? | 09:44 |
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| Summeli | pupnik: that doesn't look too bad | 09:54 |
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| pupnik | Summeli: to be honest i'm hoping someone releases code to render at maybe 40fps | 10:00 |
| pupnik | or 60, with vsync. | 10:00 |
| Summeli | pupnik: I would try it if I would have HW :) | 10:00 |
| Summeli | maybe after few weeks, or so... | 10:00 |
| Summeli | 40fps would be nice, and hopefully the scaling + filttering looks good too | 10:01 |
| Summeli | the bilinear filttering with gles 1.0 was kind of blurry | 10:01 |
| pupnik | yes - those things really need slight horizontal stretching to give 4:3 aspect | 10:02 |
| pupnik | all stuff i'd rather not have cpu doing tbh | 10:02 |
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| RST38h | An assistant at a grocery store in Clackmannanshire, Scotland, was ordered by the Performing Right Society (PRS) to obtain a performer's license and to pay royalties because she was informally singing popular songs while stocking groceries. | 10:11 |
| RST38h | This after the same store had turned off the radio after a warning from the PRS. | 10:12 |
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| dmj7261 | RST38h: I read about that on techdirt | 10:18 |
| dmj7261 | perhaps they should try collecting from all "performers" of "happy Bday" | 10:18 |
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| * pupnik waits for qwerty12_N900 | 10:34 | |
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| Corsac | hmhm, on the karma stuff, what are “ltt posts”? | 10:47 |
| lbt_ | Corsac: ITT - | 10:48 |
| lbt_ | = tmo now | 10:48 |
| lbt_ | internet tablet talk | 10:48 |
| lbt_ | got renamed tot talk.maemo.org | 10:49 |
| lbt_ | I hate this crappy square keyboard | 10:49 |
| Corsac | ha, thanks | 10:49 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:58 |
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| lbt_ | o/ Jaffa | 11:23 |
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| Corsac | ok I might just be dumb but I can't find the “subscribe to thread” in talk.m.o thread page | 11:25 |
| Myrtti | O HAI EVRIBODY! AND GOOD MORNING | 11:26 |
| Corsac | ha, in “Thread tools” | 11:27 |
| RST38h | http://www.ixbt.com/news/hard/index.shtml?12/53/33 <=== and here is the Atom-based tablet the size of NIT | 11:27 |
| RST38h | ohai Myrtti | 11:27 |
| RST38h | Running Android (hehe), probably not for very long | 11:28 |
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| pupnik | i want my unused app icons to grow mold | 11:31 |
| pupnik | or moss | 11:31 |
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| Laiska | RST38h: Isn't that the Dell "streak" | 11:32 |
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| RST38h | Lariska: whatever they call it, who cares... | 11:39 |
| RST38h | pupnik: There is a pretty moldy blue-and-green background on the device, if needed =) | 11:40 |
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| hrw | morning | 11:57 |
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| hrw | someone tried 2.6.32-rc on n810? | 11:58 |
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| mgedmin | heeeeelp! | 12:39 |
| mgedmin | loadavg of 17, never drops | 12:39 |
| mgedmin | constand swaping 5 megs/second, constant swapout 0.5--1.5 meg/second | 12:40 |
| mgedmin | apps running: xterm, conboy, web browser | 12:40 |
| mgedmin | tried killing browserd, no luck | 12:40 |
| mgedmin | memory usage not excessive: 140 megs ram + 130 megs swap + 16 megs cache | 12:40 |
| mgedmin | 80 megs of ram *totally free* | 12:41 |
| mgedmin | yet thrashing hell is hellish | 12:41 |
| hrw | Sending kernel image (2108 kB)... | 12:41 |
| hrw | Write failed after 0 bytes | 12:41 |
| hrw | usb_bulk_write: No such device | 12:41 |
| mgedmin | free memory number slowly grows | 12:41 |
| hrw | flasher 3.0 - ideas? | 12:41 |
| florian | uh | 12:41 |
| florian | permissions? | 12:41 |
| Stskeeps | hrw, root or bad usb cable/hub | 12:42 |
| hrw | florian: as root? | 12:42 |
| Stskeeps | is my experience | 12:42 |
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| florian | hrw: ok.. unlikely :) | 12:42 |
| hrw | one thing which I do not like in customer devices.... lack of serial port | 12:43 |
| mgedmin | loadavg up to 23 | 12:44 |
| mgedmin | things are getting worse, not better | 12:44 |
| mgedmin | any kernel/vm gurus? | 12:46 |
| mgedmin | free memory rose to 90 megs | 12:46 |
| hrw | hmm.. I need terminal for android now | 12:46 |
| mgedmin | why is the kernel trying to free ram when the device is choking with constantly swapping apps? | 12:47 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: what exactly are you running on the device? | 12:51 |
| mgedmin | xterm, conboy, web | 12:51 |
| mgedmin | was running xterm, conboy, modest, then closed modest, then opened web and the ui just froze | 12:51 |
| mgedmin | now looking at things over ssh | 12:51 |
| RST38h | modest///yes | 12:51 |
| mgedmin | no processes having unusually large vm or rss | 12:51 |
| RST38h | could you run htop or at least top? | 12:52 |
| RST38h | who is eating the cpu cycles? | 12:52 |
| mgedmin | I am running htop and vmstat | 12:52 |
| mgedmin | 80-90% cpu is in iowait | 12:52 |
| mgedmin | nobody is using cpu as cpu | 12:52 |
| mgedmin | 17 processes are constatly swapping in and out of ram while *free* ram grows (from 70 megs 10 minutes ago to 90 megs now) | 12:52 |
| RST38h | kill all browserd copies | 12:52 |
| RST38h | see what happens | 12:52 |
| mgedmin | tried killall browserd | 12:52 |
| mgedmin | no effect | 12:53 |
| mgedmin | will try killall -9 | 12:53 |
| mgedmin | Load average: 19.19 19.38 16.00 | 12:53 |
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| RST38h | try -9 | 12:55 |
| mgedmin | okay, no more browserd | 12:55 |
| mgedmin | of course it gets respawned | 12:56 |
| mgedmin | load (temporarily) increases: 22 now | 12:56 |
| RST38h | please also do killall -9 modest | 12:57 |
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| mgedmin | waitasec, trying killall browser now | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | free ram *up* to 100 megs, apps still swapping | 12:59 |
| mgedmin | this can't be fricking right | 12:59 |
| mgedmin | it's a kernel bug | 12:59 |
| pupnik | RST38h: am i silly for wanting new gcc > 4.4.1 for n900? | 12:59 |
| pupnik | looks like | 12:59 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: that's going to take a while with gcc being gplv3 now, isn't it? | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | err, pupnik: | 13:00 |
| mgedmin | free ram down to 80 now, hm | 13:00 |
| mgedmin | up to 93 again | 13:00 |
| mgedmin | swapout is fighting swapin or something | 13:00 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: why would it? | 13:01 |
| mgedmin | what are the vm tunables in /proc or /sys? | 13:01 |
| RST38h | pupnik: No, just get 1q2009 toolchain from codesourcery | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | w00t: nokia/maemo is a gplv2 shop | 13:01 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: that doesn't prevent you from self-installing, though | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 13:01 |
| w00t | (as not-fun as it might be) | 13:01 |
| RST38h | Sts: I doubtit matters for gcc | 13:01 |
| pupnik | ty | 13:02 |
| RST38h | Sts: it is a tool after all, not shipped with the device | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 13:02 |
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| mgedmin | /proc/sys/vm/swappiness says 100, is that good or bad? | 13:02 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: it means "interesting" | 13:03 |
| mgedmin | this is total bullshit, I'm rebooting | 13:03 |
| * lcuk yawns | 13:04 | |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Haven't you been warned that N900 is not ready for regular use? "_ | 13:04 |
| * RST38h cackles evilly | 13:05 | |
| ccooke | From the looks of the n900, it's got some very fast flash to swap to - probably a small SSD. | 13:05 |
| ccooke | Looks like they've designed it to run many things from swap, using main RAM as a cache. | 13:05 |
| RST38h | ccooke: I can almost bet it has got the same flash for those 32GB as installed in your average sd card | 13:05 |
| RST38h | ccooke: and it uses generic sd card controller for theinterface | 13:05 |
| mgedmin | when I first got it I was amazed how fast the UI was *even with 270 megs of swap space used* | 13:07 |
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| ccooke | RST38h: could be. Whatever they're using though, they're getting *very* high performance out of it. If there's no cpu hog, the device seems to remain responsive even when there's a lot of swap used | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | now it's not acting that way any more | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | is it some 3rd party package I've installed? | 13:07 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: use top | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | ccooke: and *what*? | 13:07 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: see if there's a cpu hog? | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | no | 13:07 |
| RST38h | he did | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | 95% cpu in iowait | 13:07 |
| ccooke | ah, sorry | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | load ~20 | 13:07 |
| RST38h | something is polling like crazy | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | vmstat shows constant swapout and constant swapin | 13:07 |
| Stskeeps | do you have an external SD card? | 13:08 |
| mgedmin | *and lots of UNUSED FREE MEMORY* | 13:08 |
| mgedmin | which is why I cry *kernel bug* | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | anything in dmesg? | 13:08 |
| mgedmin | when you boot, free ram is ~4 megs | 13:08 |
| ccooke | that sounds bad, yeah | 13:08 |
| mgedmin | why was my n900 trying to maintain 90 megs of free ram, swapping out apps? | 13:08 |
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| RST38h | what applets are you running? | 13:08 |
| mgedmin | load-applet, simple-brightness-applet | 13:09 |
| mgedmin | and one more | 13:09 |
| RST38h | which one | 13:09 |
| mgedmin | connection-switcher | 13:09 |
| RST38h | hmm | 13:09 |
| * mgedmin runs sudo apt-get remove connection-switcher maemo-pc-connectivity pc-connectivity-manager | 13:10 | |
| mgedmin | hmm: http://pastie.org/664847 | 13:10 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: hmm. Did you try running powertop? It might be able to find the process doing most wakeups | 13:11 |
| mgedmin | I get the urge to go to maemo-testing voting pages and thumb down maemo-pc-connectivity and all related packages | 13:11 |
| mgedmin | I didn't try powertop, no | 13:11 |
| mgedmin | I tried iotop, couldn't get it to work | 13:11 |
| ccooke | powertop's in root's path | 13:11 |
| RST38h | powertop isn't for this purpose | 13:11 |
| RST38h | you know what... | 13:11 |
| RST38h | kill the tracker daemon | 13:12 |
| ccooke | RST38h: no, but it can actually help | 13:12 |
| RST38h | I think thta may be it | 13:12 |
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| mgedmin | it is silly how in bugzilla the 5.0-beta comes *after* the 5.0 final | 13:13 |
| wazd | heya all | 13:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: heyamoo | 13:13 |
| Stskeeps | morning wazd | 13:13 |
| RST38h | A New Zealand town has cancelled a rabbit-chucking contest in which local kids were invited to see how far they could hurl a lapine carcass. | 13:14 |
| pupnik | like boo | 13:15 |
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| wazd | good news, we have fixed the donation link | 13:16 |
| pupnik | :) ++ | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: offshore account? | 13:17 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: yeah, my friend Roman helped me with it :D | 13:17 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: his football team uses the same account for donations :D | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 13:18 |
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| Stskeeps | how can you tell them apart then? | 13:18 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: well, sriously, we've made an account in Finland | 13:19 |
| Stskeeps | ah, i've heard of that method | 13:19 |
| * mgedmin files https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5712 | 13:20 | |
| X-Fade | wazd: Drive to the border to get the cash? :) | 13:22 |
| mgedmin | btw I've seen this kind of runaway-swap-hell-trying-to-free-unused-ram happen on my asus eeepc too | 13:22 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, you could make a helicopter drop! | 13:23 |
| lcuk | we considered using lardmans rockets, but that might get a bit messy | 13:24 |
| mgedmin | at least I've exonerated the facebook widget | 13:24 |
| wazd | X-Fade: we're still thinking on how to take cash from Finland :D | 13:24 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: I don't think my range is sufficient ;) | 13:24 |
| wazd | X-Fade: western union maybe | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | western union is horridly expensive | 13:24 |
| lcuk | rocket powered intercontinental helicopters! | 13:25 |
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| _julian | hi | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: you're better off investing in nokia stock ;p | 13:25 |
| wazd | anybody received confirmation from forum.nokia btw? | 13:26 |
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| mgedmin | grr, apps menu not scrollable bug hits me when I'm down | 13:29 |
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| mgedmin | also I'm low on battery power (charged all night) | 13:30 |
| _julian | can someone tell me how I should decide if a file is deleted when using lightmediascanner? | 13:30 |
| mgedmin | swapping hell is expensive for battery life, apparently | 13:30 |
| mgedmin | or maybe it was that web reading on the bus this morning | 13:30 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: you forgot the ps -ax output | 13:31 |
| mgedmin | if a file does not exist it's a reasonable assumption that it has been deleted (or moved. or the filesystem with the file was unmounted) | 13:31 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: and have you tried killing tracker? | 13:31 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: don't have ps -ax, have pstree output | 13:31 |
| mgedmin | which would tell you the names and numbers of processes, but nothing more | 13:31 |
| mgedmin | and no, I already rebooted without trying to kill tracker | 13:31 |
| RST38h | ps is built into the system | 13:31 |
| RST38h | but pstree will probably do | 13:31 |
| * mgedmin meant I don't have ps -ax output made while the system was swapping | 13:31 | |
| RST38h | ah ok | 13:32 |
| RST38h | tried killing tracker? | 13:32 |
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| RST38h | because I have got somewhat similar behavior on desktop system with tracker | 13:32 |
| * mgedmin repeats: I already rebooted without trying to kill tracker | 13:32 | |
| mgedmin | hm, actually, the eee pc I mentioned? with the *same* symptom? it is running tracker | 13:32 |
| RST38h | wait for the next opportunity then ;) | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | is it on charger? | 13:33 |
| mgedmin | that'll be this evening or next morning, I expect *sigh* | 13:33 |
| mgedmin | uptime said 1 day 10 hours | 13:33 |
| RST38h | condolensces | 13:33 |
| * mgedmin wants to go for lunch and wants to read an ebook on his n900 -- but low battery + non-scrollable-app-menu doesn't let him launch fbreader :( | 13:33 | |
| mgedmin | I DEMAND MY MONEY BACK | 13:34 |
| mgedmin | oh, right, I got the n900 for free | 13:34 |
| jaska | non-scrollable app menu? | 13:34 |
| mgedmin | know bug, fixed in the not-yet-released version | 13:34 |
| mgedmin | according to bugzilla | 13:34 |
| lbt_ | wazd: confirmation of an email or an order or? | 13:34 |
| * mgedmin stares at the fbreader shortcut on the desktop and feels all stoopid | 13:35 | |
| lbt_ | mgedmin: reboot fixes it | 13:35 |
| wazd | lbt_: well, any response from forum.nokia :D | 13:35 |
| mgedmin | will a few more minutes with the usb charger plugged in make any difference? probably not | 13:35 |
| lbt_ | I managed to complete the user registration which included an email about account activation | 13:35 |
| wazd | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue <- that's nice | 13:35 |
| lbt_ | nothing more yet | 13:35 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: WAIT | 13:38 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: what is it about nonscrollable app menu? | 13:38 |
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| RurouniJones | Goooooooooooood evening freeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnddddddddsssssssss | 13:39 |
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| RurouniJones | Feh, no music lovers about eh. | 13:40 |
| range | No freinds either. | 13:40 |
| RurouniJones | Well...that too | 13:40 |
| RurouniJones | But I choose to believe it is the music bit | 13:40 |
| jaska | only fiends | 13:40 |
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| timeless | mgedmin: where is 5.0 final? | 13:51 |
| timeless | oh! | 13:51 |
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| timeless | mgedmin: look at a bug in the browser component and tell me if you think the versions list is better | 13:53 |
| timeless | if it is, we can ask andre to switch to that | 13:53 |
| timeless | actually | 13:53 |
| andre__ | how? | 13:53 |
| * timeless ponders | 13:53 | |
| andre__ | version has no sort field | 13:53 |
| timeless | it's alpha sort | 13:53 |
| timeless | i changed 5.0 to 5.0-release | 13:53 |
| timeless | but i think a better approach is: | 13:54 |
| timeless | 5.0 (0.2009.xx) alpha | 13:54 |
| timeless | 5.0 (0.2009.xx) alpha-pre1 | 13:54 |
| timeless | 5.0 (0.2009.xx) alpha-pre2 | 13:54 |
| timeless | if the alpha pres are before alpjha | 13:54 |
| timeless | then we can invent values for xx | 13:54 |
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| andre__ | urgh | 13:54 |
| andre__ | "invent values" | 13:54 |
| timeless | it's more consistent | 13:54 |
| timeless | oh, i bet you could find them too if you tried :) | 13:54 |
| timeless | they're just week numbers | 13:54 |
| timeless | pick the week they were released | 13:55 |
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| andre__ | timeless, 5.0-release: please revert | 13:55 |
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| timeless | yeah, done | 13:55 |
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| timeless | i was just doing it to see which ways work | 13:55 |
| andre__ | but i agree there's a problem currently. i know :-/ | 13:55 |
| timeless | i think 5.0 (0.2009.xx) is the way to go | 13:55 |
| timeless | we actually do use that internally, so it isn't wrong either | 13:56 |
| andre__ | timeless, i like the idea to use week numbers also for alpha,beta | 13:56 |
| andre__ | at least it fixes the sorting | 13:56 |
| timeless | can you poke someone from the sdk team to get the numbers? | 13:57 |
| andre__ | i think i have them | 13:57 |
| andre__ | not sure | 13:57 |
| timeless | i'm in a multihour meeting and just missed lunch | 13:57 |
| timeless | cool :) | 13:57 |
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| timeless | mgedmin: technically, this is a bug, please file it in websites:bugzilla | 13:57 |
| timeless | (it's good for karma, and it shows that we did work because you asked for it) | 13:57 |
| wazd | n900 delayed? :) | 13:58 |
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| RST38h | "we did easy work because you asked for it" | 14:01 |
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| * RST38h cackles | 14:01 | |
| * timeless shrugs | 14:04 | |
| timeless | it wasn't easy | 14:04 |
| timeless | i'm sure it bothered andre for a while | 14:04 |
| timeless | but he didn't have a solution | 14:04 |
| timeless | things are often easier in hindsight | 14:04 |
| * RST38h still wonders about that non-scrollable app menu bug reported by mgedmin. Happened ot me once | 14:05 | |
| RST38h | Anyone else seen it? | 14:05 |
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| ccooke | not here | 14:06 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yeah, i've seen another guy run into it | 14:06 |
| lcuk | i saw something odd once too, but since i couldnt replicate it i didnt report it. the second level "user" apps came over the top of the main first level apps | 14:08 |
| Stskeeps | that one too | 14:08 |
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| RST38h | Sts: Has it been already reported on bugzilla? | 14:09 |
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| Stskeeps | not ure | 14:09 |
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| lcuk | mm hang on then | 14:09 |
| lcuk | if multitple people have encountered it | 14:09 |
| lcuk | lemme dig and see if its anywhere | 14:09 |
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| RST38h | I will report it just in case. Sts, please, comment on it even if it fdid not happen to you personally | 14:09 |
| Stskeeps | k | 14:09 |
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| lcuk | is there a technical name for those menus it might come under | 14:11 |
| timeless | lcuk: i reported that internally | 14:12 |
| timeless | i was able to reproduce it repeatedly for a while ~2months ago | 14:12 |
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| timeless | sp3000 hit it yesterday w/ a build more recent than what you guys are using | 14:12 |
| lcuk | ahhh yes i recall a convo, but it didnt click | 14:12 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: #5713 | 14:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: See #5713 | 14:13 |
| lcuk | channel is empty | 14:13 |
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| max_planck | hi there? | 14:13 |
| Stskeeps | hi | 14:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Don't force me to type in the whole URL, it is ona different computer=) | 14:13 |
| lcuk | its ok | 14:13 |
| * RST38h really needs the copy&paste-across-computers feature | 14:14 | |
| lcuk | can we get one of the bots to do it for us please :$ | 14:14 |
| lcuk | #[number] | 14:14 |
| lcuk | into proper bug url | 14:14 |
| lbt_ | RST38h: I saw it | 14:14 |
| max_planck | xcvx | 14:14 |
| RST38h | lbt: the only way I could fix it is by reboot | 14:14 |
| lcuk | hi max_planck | 14:14 |
| max_planck | hi luck | 14:14 |
| lbt_ | RST38h: correct | 14:14 |
| lbt_ | That's what a nokian told me | 14:15 |
| max_planck | does any of u have nokia n900? | 14:15 |
| lbt_ | how many? | 14:15 |
| lcuk | timeless, yikes check around what happens when an app shortcut runs itself | 14:15 |
| * lbt_ only has one atm | 14:15 | |
| lcuk | errr i mean when the app is already running | 14:15 |
| lcuk | and you click its icon | 14:15 |
| lcuk | so it doesnt run fully | 14:15 |
| zerojay | I haven't seen this menu problem before. Strange. | 14:15 |
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| lcuk | it just activates the instance | 14:16 |
| lcuk | zerojay, i saw it exactly once | 14:16 |
| timeless | rst38h: from memory, it was possible to fix it (or rather for it to go away w/o a reboot) | 14:16 |
| timeless | but i never figured out what caused it to go away :) | 14:17 |
| * timeless shrugs, the restoring behavior is sometimes ok | 14:17 | |
| * RST38h wonders if he should file App Manager bugs | 14:18 | |
| RST38h | The opening transition, when App Manager goes away for a second then reappears, and the way it tries to paint any theme blue | 14:18 |
| lcuk | is that what wazd reported in the happy thread? | 14:20 |
| RST38h | Dunno, url? | 14:20 |
| wazd | lcuk: that's SDK only bug :) | 14:21 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Set your tablet to an orange/brown theme | 14:21 |
| wazd | RST38h: that blue color rave | 14:21 |
| RST38h | lcuk: then open app manager and see what the opening screen looks like | 14:21 |
| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=354689&postcount=25 | 14:21 |
| * lcuk likes this thread | 14:22 | |
| lcuk | theres a lot of things people like about the device | 14:22 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 14:22 |
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| * mgedmin bakc | 14:25 | |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5713 | 14:26 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: duplicate of https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5343 ? | 14:28 |
| mgedmin | "This has been fixed internally very recently. Not yet part of 1.2009.41-10." | 14:29 |
| mgedmin | and since the original bug is RESOLVED, people don't find it in searches and keep reporting dupes | 14:29 |
| RST38h | mgadmin: Ah! You shouldn't have gone to lunch so early =) | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | speaking of themes and bugs, select the orange theme, go to app installer app list, select an app (so that its background bar is orange) and hold your tap until you get a popup menu | 14:30 |
| RST38h | marking as duplicate | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | the popup menu has rounded black corners with sharp orange spikes | 14:31 |
| RST38h | that is known | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | I was unable to take a screenshot | 14:31 |
| RST38h | popups and original gtk+ menus do not do transparency or shapes | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | apparently popup menus block ctrl+alt+p | 14:31 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: same occurs if you create a traditional gtk+ menu | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | this is one area where X.org sucks: have an app open a popup (and therefore grab the X server), then have the app freeze | 14:31 |
| RST38h | they are not shaped windows | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | so, gtk bug? | 14:32 |
| Corsac | that's why modal windows are not really recommended | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | modal windows don't enter here, I think? | 14:32 |
| Corsac | oh. | 14:32 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Nokia's Hildon bug | 14:32 |
| Corsac | then I'm confused | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | reported? | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: can I go and vote for it? | 14:32 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: Not by me if ever | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | a rough corner in an otherwise very slick ui -- stands out | 14:32 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Go report and harvest some karma :) | 14:33 |
| mgedmin | mmm, karma | 14:33 |
| * RST38h will vote for it | 14:33 | |
| Corsac | yummy | 14:33 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: Can you use load-applet to make a screenshot? | 14:33 |
| mgedmin | X-Fade: tried and failed | 14:33 |
| RST38h | XFade: It is easily recreatable | 14:33 |
| mgedmin | I wish screenshot tools *gave some indication* that the screenshot was taken | 14:33 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: Hmm. osso-screenshot-tool from ssh cli? | 14:34 |
| mgedmin | X-Fade: also tried load-applet screencast, got a black movie with sound effects | 14:34 |
| mgedmin | missing codec? | 14:34 |
| RST38h | Would probably benefit from a screenshot, but just load FBreader and bring up its app menu | 14:34 |
| mgedmin | yeah, that too | 14:34 |
| tigert | X-Fade: in what? | 14:34 |
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| hrw | mgedmin: try fbgrab? | 14:34 |
| tigert | fremantle? | 14:34 |
| X-Fade | tigert: yep | 14:34 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: cat /dev/fb0 >file ! | 14:34 |
| tigert | Ctrl-Shift-P? | 14:34 |
| tigert | :) | 14:34 |
| mgedmin | doesn't work -- server grab for popup menus grabs all keybindings? | 14:35 |
| X-Fade | tigert: Doesn't work when modifier popup menu is active. | 14:35 |
| tigert | mgedmin: ah | 14:35 |
| tigert | right | 14:35 |
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| mgedmin | crap, still online via 3g | 14:35 |
| mgedmin | -sh: osso-screenshot-tool: not found | 14:36 |
| mgedmin | -sh: fbgrab: not found | 14:36 |
| zerojay | install load-applet | 14:37 |
| hrw | mgedmin: normally I would say "apt-get update;apt-get install fbgrab" but this will not work on maemo | 14:37 |
| mgedmin | waaah, app manager grabs dpkg lock, can't install anything | 14:37 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: just close it? :) | 14:37 |
| hrw | mgedmin: rm /var/lib/dpkg/lock | 14:37 |
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| Anunakin | Hi All! | 14:38 |
| zerojay | yo | 14:38 |
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| mgedmin | http://mg.pov.lt/popup-with-weird-corners.png | 14:39 |
| RST38h | Application Manager theme bug: #5715 | 14:40 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: Did you check if it does that in other apps too? | 14:41 |
| mgedmin | yes, fbreader's diablo-styled menus too | 14:41 |
| mgedmin | note that with the app mgr it's a bit finnicky: the corners are sometimes black and sometimes orange | 14:41 |
| mgedmin | and the item in the faded-out background sometimes has an orange bar and sometimes black | 14:41 |
| mgedmin | and sometimes the color of the corners doesn't match the color of the background bar | 14:41 |
| mgedmin | but that's not really relevant | 14:41 |
| mgedmin | bug is: rounded menu corners aren't transparent | 14:42 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: your bug is different, I think | 14:42 |
| mgedmin | http://mg.pov.lt/app-manager-blue-orange.png <-- do you mean there should be no traces of orange on that screen? or no traces of blue? | 14:44 |
| mgedmin | I don't remember what the app manager looks like with the blue theme | 14:44 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: it should be either orange (like th etheme says) or blue (if it is fixed) but not both | 14:45 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: with blue theme it is blue blending into blue background | 14:45 |
| mgedmin | feel free to upload that screenshot to the bug | 14:45 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: thanks! I will! | 14:45 |
| mgedmin | and even better if you photoshop it to look the way you think it should look like | 14:45 |
| mgedmin | because I'm not sure I understand | 14:45 |
| RST38h | Well, think of it | 14:45 |
| RST38h | You are using the orange theme, rright? | 14:45 |
| mgedmin | yes | 14:46 |
| RST38h | So you would normally expect the app manager screen to be in the same colors as the rest of the theme | 14:46 |
| RST38h | Yes, it is violet for some reason | 14:46 |
| RST38h | Let us say, just for once, that it SHOULD be violet | 14:46 |
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| Corsac | Violets are blue | 14:46 |
| RST38h | In this case, you would expect the glow around the icons to be also violet or blue or something like that | 14:46 |
| RST38h | Yet in your image the glow is orange, like the theme says I guess | 14:47 |
| RST38h | So, something is wrong there | 14:47 |
| mgedmin | maybe it's your expectation that's wrong here? ;) | 14:48 |
| * mgedmin ducks and hides | 14:48 | |
| RST38h | I do not think so | 14:48 |
| RST38h | It is highly improbable that someone EXPECTS it to be orange-on-violet | 14:49 |
| mgedmin | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5716 | 14:50 |
| mgedmin | I have to say I didn't expect it, but I didn't notice anything wrong before you mentioned it | 14:50 |
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| lbt_ | anyone know where I can get a swimming Tux logo ? | 14:52 |
| mgedmin | wait, what, the n900 calendar can sync with google? cool | 14:53 |
| RST38h | can it??? | 14:54 |
| RST38h | things suddenly started looking brighter =) | 14:54 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, the "developer advocate" job sounds right up my alley | 14:55 |
| Corsac | bof | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | url? | 14:55 |
| jaska | devil-oper advocate | 14:55 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: http://maemo.org/news/jobs/maemo_developer_advocate-nokia/ | 14:55 |
| Corsac | google is already aware of all your private life so maybe it's not grave to give it your appointements too :/ | 14:56 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: It can sync with your first Google Calendar using Mail for Exchange | 14:56 |
| mgedmin | sounds like the job is defending developers in court against patent lawsuits | 14:56 |
| mgedmin | aaha, I see "Exchange" in a menu option and adblock it instantly | 14:56 |
| mgedmin | that's why I haven't found how to do it | 14:56 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: sounds about right | 14:56 |
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| mgedmin | qole implied he had tsocks for fremantle? | 14:57 |
| mgedmin | apt-cache search finds none | 14:57 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: From Debian, maybe? | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | somebody once mentioned planning to upload it to extras, I think | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | or wait, was that proxytunnel? | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | maybe both | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | Hmm... "Setting up proxytunnel (1.9.0-0mg1) ..." | 14:59 |
| mgedmin | I suppose that was me | 14:59 |
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| Jaffa | heh | 14:59 |
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| mgedmin | if my memory is like this now, what will I do when I'm 60? | 14:59 |
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| jaska | cyborg | 15:00 |
| * mgedmin likes this one-liner: sudo sysctl -w vm.vdso_enabled=0 vm.mmap_min_addr=4096 | 15:00 | |
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| mgedmin | shorter than echo | sudo tee | 15:00 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: Works in recent kernels without having to be a boot param? | 15:00 |
| mgedmin | define recent --- I'm running 2.6.28 | 15:01 |
| mgedmin | sysctls were never boot-only params | 15:01 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: oh...mail for exchange =( | 15:01 |
| Jaffa | No, but vdso went from /sys or /proc to having to be a boot param AIUI | 15:01 |
| mgedmin | hmm | 15:01 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: As long as you advocate for developers in front of Nokia and not the vice versa though =) | 15:01 |
| mgedmin | we'll see next week after I upgrade to karmic | 15:02 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: Not sure I'd want to move to Helsinki... ;-) | 15:02 |
| Jaffa | And I imagine the pay ain't wonderful. | 15:02 |
| jaska | hell-sinki, devils advocate, it all fits | 15:02 |
| Jaffa | jaska: :) | 15:02 |
| jaska | (used to live there, probably will if i get a job again) | 15:03 |
| suihkulokki | there is lots of maemo jobs in helsinki and tampere available, welcome :) | 15:03 |
| jaska | no M.Sc. and no 10 years exp so all i could do at nokia is mop floors. | 15:04 |
| Lupu | suihkulokki: What about other countries, with more sun and a warmer society? :) | 15:04 |
| mgedmin | aieee! scratchbox comes with python 2.3 | 15:04 |
| jaska | 2.3 o.O | 15:04 |
| suihkulokki | Lupu: it's perfectly warm inside :) | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: Much pain caused there if you just run "python" | 15:05 |
| lizardo | mgedmin: yes... to avoid it, call "python2.5" explicitely | 15:05 |
| jaska | helsinki is warmer than where im from anyway, other than the sea-wind :) | 15:05 |
| mgedmin | I suppose tsocks is in diablo extras | 15:05 |
| X-Fade | Lupu: Bangalore has a lot of jobs too | 15:05 |
| suihkulokki | Lupu: also, there are jobs in bangalore if you prefer.. | 15:05 |
| suihkulokki | heh | 15:05 |
| lizardo | it is so common FAQ, that we even have a general FAQ item about it: | 15:06 |
| lizardo | Why do I get the error <put some error message here>? | 15:06 |
| lizardo | First make sure that you are running python2.5 explicitly, as python inside scratchbox defaults to scratchbox’ python (2.3) | 15:06 |
| Lupu | How about a compromise... I was thinking of something like Portugal ;) | 15:06 |
| X-Fade | Lupu: And US Mountain View | 15:06 |
| lizardo | so when you have any error with python, first of all check that you are calling python2.5 :) | 15:06 |
| jaska | portugal would probably be a whole lot cheaper than hellsinki too | 15:06 |
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| range | Bangalore too :) | 15:08 |
| Lupu | With my criteria Oulu probably wasn't the best option... | 15:09 |
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| * mgedmin wants a command-line tool to upload stuff to extras-assistant | 15:10 | |
| Corsac | dput? | 15:10 |
| mgedmin | tried to configure it, gave up in frustration | 15:10 |
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| lcuk | mgedmin :) you posted | 15:12 |
| mgedmin | you noticed | 15:12 |
| lcuk | indeed | 15:12 |
| mgedmin | gaah, now I want IM contact icons on my laptop | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | there's probably a market for fremantle on laptops | 15:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:13 |
| lcuk | we have many bug threads, i thought we needed a bit of balance at what is right | 15:13 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, you got your first thanks! for that post too :P | 15:14 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: You can just do it via ssh | 15:14 |
| Corsac | mgedmin: I don't know the maemo infrastructure, but if there's a way to drop .changes files to correct folder using ftp, ssh or stuff like that, it should be easy to set up dput | 15:14 |
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| X-Fade | mgedmin: scp works too. | 15:14 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#scp | 15:14 |
| mgedmin | X-Fade: is it documen? coooool! | 15:14 |
| Jaffa | Of course, it doesn't work most of the time. | 15:14 |
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| X-Fade | mgedmin: dput == scp ;) | 15:14 |
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| mgedmin | wouldn't that require gpg signatures? | 15:15 |
| * Jaffa has been pondering a Web::Robot interfce to extras-assistant, but the "lost connection" errors should be fixed Real Soon Now ;-) | 15:15 | |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: No. | 15:15 |
| mgedmin | hmm | 15:15 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: You need to have your SSH key in your garage profile (see step 1 on that page) | 15:15 |
| mgedmin | "You do not have any invitation." says the page where I'm supposed to upload my SSH key | 15:16 |
| Jaffa | Seems... unlikely. | 15:16 |
| Jaffa | Poke X-Fade some more? | 15:17 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: Read that wiki page ;) | 15:17 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: Start at the top | 15:17 |
| mgedmin | reading is hard | 15:17 |
| zerojayN900 | i wasn't ever able to get scp to work. i just use the web uploader. | 15:17 |
| mgedmin | garage account: check | 15:17 |
| mgedmin | invitation to upload: wouldn't I already have it? | 15:17 |
| mgedmin | wasn't it necessary to be able to use extras assistant? | 15:17 |
| mgedmin | and I seem to recall trying to set up dput | 15:17 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: yes, for assistant you need it. | 15:18 |
| mgedmin | so? | 15:18 |
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| mgedmin | wrong link in the wiki page? | 15:18 |
| mgedmin | it should point to https://garage.maemo.org/account/ but it points to https://garage.maemo.org/my/contrib.php | 15:19 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: Yeah, that link only works when you have requested an invitation. | 15:19 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: And the invitation has not been accepted yet. | 15:19 |
| mgedmin | okay, I have all the prerequisites met it seems | 15:20 |
| mgedmin | now I only need a new package to test uploading via scp | 15:21 |
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| X-Fade | JamieBennett: ping? | 15:21 |
| JamieBennett | pong | 15:21 |
| X-Fade | JamieBennett: Last videos have been uploaded to the same url. | 15:22 |
| X-Fade | JamieBennett: Then you should have everything. | 15:22 |
| JamieBennett | OK | 15:22 |
| * JamieBennett goes to download them | 15:22 | |
| JamieBennett | Anyone want to edit them and add slides? The conversion process is long but I've done most of them although they now need the editing part doing. | 15:23 |
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| Stskeeps | so how bad was the recordings? :P | 15:25 |
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| JamieBennett | Stskeeps: Pretty bad, cleaned it up a bit but some of it is a little bad | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | :nod; | 15:31 |
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| mgedmin | anybody ever seen Modest say "Maximum number of characters reached"? | 15:34 |
| mgedmin | and then go all weird and stop redrawing the screen if you scroll down too far | 15:34 |
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| mgedmin | this is an email that brings Modest on its knees: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2009-October/000990.html | 15:34 |
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| lcuk | mgedmin, its mobile email, tell people to shorten their messages | 15:37 |
| lcuk | they cant go sending you emails like that | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | I guess it's the plurality of links? | 15:37 |
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| Corsac | lcuk: isn't the n900 a computer in the pocket?? | 15:41 |
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| lcuk | thats not my n900 | 15:42 |
| lcuk | :D | 15:42 |
| mgedmin | a big thanks to all the people working on the wiki: it's much better these days than I remember it from a few years ago | 15:42 |
| lbt_ | mgedmin: my IMAP account has >500,000 messages .... modest isn't exactly happy. But it can read my inbox | 15:42 |
| lcuk | Corsac, yeah tis, but then generically, people shouldnt send such big emails | 15:42 |
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| lbt_ | sadly it doesn't seem to like cyrus folder structures :( | 15:43 |
| Corsac | lcuk: people shouldn't subscribe to those mailing lists then :) | 15:43 |
| mgedmin | lbt_: why do you say that? | 15:43 |
| Corsac | (on the n810, modest doesn't exactly love my inbox folder either) | 15:43 |
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| Corsac | which only has 11k mails | 15:44 |
| lbt_ | mgedmin: I can't see any subfolders on modest | 15:44 |
| Corsac | but maybe he doesn't like the subfolders | 15:44 |
| Corsac | lbt_: maybe he wants you to be subscribed | 15:44 |
| ShadowJK | lbt_, apparently you will only see subscribed folders, and you need to use something else to subscribe to them. There's a bug, go vote | 15:44 |
| mgedmin | lbt_: have you subscribed to any of the subfolders with a different imap client? | 15:44 |
| lbt_ | yeah, I may have missed somethin in the admin/config | 15:44 |
| mgedmin | weirdly, I run dovecot on two servers | 15:45 |
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| lbt_ | ShadowJK: 'something else' on the N900 ? | 15:45 |
| mgedmin | on one (mbox files on the server side) I could only see the inbox until I went and subscribed to all of the folders | 15:45 |
| mgedmin | on another (maildir++ folders on the server side) I see all folders, including nested ones | 15:45 |
| mgedmin | although I think I haven't subscribed to *any* | 15:45 |
| mgedmin | ~/Maildir/subscriptions says just 'INBOX' | 15:46 |
| lbt_ | OK ... nm.... the folders are there now I'm offline... | 15:46 |
| lbt_ | they weren't there last night | 15:46 |
| lcuk | app proposal: detect violent shaking and "FFFFFF&^"£&£*!*&" sound from mic should close topmost app | 15:47 |
| lbt_ | <sigh> 23 kinetic scroll gestures to view my folders... | 15:49 |
| mgedmin | yeah | 15:49 |
| lbt_ | have they never heard of collapsing a tree? | 15:49 |
| Corsac | mgedmin: I noticed that some clients treat “no folders subcribed to” as “all folders subscribed too” | 15:49 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 15:49 |
| mgedmin | you can unsubscribe from the folders you don't want to see (in theory) | 15:49 |
| Corsac | like, if you don't have any subscription info, you get everything | 15:49 |
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| Corsac | but if you select some folders, you're only interested in them and not other | 15:50 |
| lbt_ | how? | 15:50 |
| lbt_ | new/rename/move/delete ... nope | 15:51 |
| lbt_ | send+recv nope | 15:51 |
| lbt_ | edit account... nope | 15:51 |
| ShadowJK | thunerbird on pc... | 15:51 |
| lbt_ | but but but | 15:51 |
| lbt_ | I *want* to see them on my PC | 15:52 |
| lbt_ | sigh | 15:52 |
| lbt_ | nm | 15:52 |
| mgedmin | at least modest is open source | 15:52 |
| mgedmin | ... right? | 15:52 |
| * lbt_ runs squirrelmail | 15:52 | |
| lbt_ | it is actually | 15:52 |
| lbt_ | unbuildable though | 15:52 |
| lbt_ | since it has closed deps | 15:52 |
| mgedmin | fun | 15:52 |
| lbt_ | ah | 15:52 |
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| lbt_ | to be fair that's on Mer | 15:52 |
| lbt_ | and that *was* on Mer | 15:53 |
| mgedmin | gotta love maemo.org email notifications | 15:53 |
| mgedmin | "page 8bc0fd54be4011de9a7a2956a06d2fb02fb0 has been commented" | 15:53 |
| mgedmin | oh, the 8bc0f..., right, I remember that one | 15:53 |
| mgedmin | WTF? | 15:53 |
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| X-Fade | mgedmin: Heh, yeah. sopi is going to fix that btw ;) | 15:54 |
| sopi | yeah, that's the plan.. | 15:54 |
| X-Fade | See, as simple as that ;) | 15:55 |
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| RST38h | Somebody just had to complain about it... | 15:56 |
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| lopz | hi ;) | 15:57 |
| crashanddie | I received an email, which read: "You have registered to receive this email on $date\n\nThe IP address used to complete this registration was: $daSuckersIP" | 15:59 |
| * brbrbr greet everybody | 15:59 | |
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| mgedmin | conboy keeps losing bullets | 16:23 |
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| pablo_ | hi guys , when I build qt-x11-maemo appears the error " The EGL functionality test failed! | 16:35 |
| pablo_ | EGL is required for OpenGL ES to manage contexts & surfaces." ... Any Idea? | 16:35 |
| fiferboy | pablo_: Are you building for x86 or armel? | 16:35 |
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| pablo_ | fiferboy, armel | 16:36 |
| fiferboy | pablo_: You need the opengles library. "fakeroot apt-get build-dep qt4-x11" should get it for you | 16:36 |
| Mek | you'll need various opengles developer packages installed... | 16:36 |
| fiferboy | I think it is listed as a build-dep, if not I can check what I have installed | 16:37 |
| pablo_ | fiferboy, ok thanks | 16:37 |
| fiferboy | NP | 16:37 |
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| RST38h | Of 4.3 million new "integrated devices" activated by AT&T last quarter, 3.2 million were iPhonesthat's 74%. | 16:54 |
| RST38h | 40% of those iPhone activations were to new AT&T customers | 16:54 |
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| cpt_nemo | What ist the recommended environment for building Maemo apps (on an x86 host)? | 16:59 |
| cpt_nemo | I have tried scratchbox2 and maemo-sdk+, but couldn't get it to work. | 17:00 |
| cpt_nemo | My host computer is Debian Lenny. | 17:00 |
| javispedro | scratchbox2==maemo-sdk+ | 17:00 |
| javispedro | the recommended environment is scratchbox(1), and in fact debian is the recommended host distro. | 17:00 |
| cpt_nemo | Does anyone here use scratchbox2 then? | 17:01 |
| javispedro | yes, not me though. | 17:01 |
| cpt_nemo | It seemed conceptually nicer than scratchbox1. | 17:01 |
| cpt_nemo | javispedro: Thanks. I'll give scratchbox1 a try. | 17:02 |
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| lcuk | wow | 17:14 |
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| lcuk | someone just sent a whole presentation about ui ideas privately | 17:14 |
| lcuk | its so good i want to open it up to everyone | 17:14 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Well, as the inventor of the Maemo 6 ui, you are well respected ;) | 17:15 |
| lcuk | :D hehehe | 17:15 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission | 17:16 |
| lcuk | no ill wait for his reply | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | except when a nda is involved | 17:16 |
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| lcuk | im thoroughly impressed by his presentation style too | 17:16 |
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| lcuk | they are only simple observations | 17:16 |
| mgedmin | yesterday I kept trying to watch your liqbase presentation on youtube | 17:16 |
| mgedmin | my 0.3 mbit/s 3g didn't cooperate :( | 17:16 |
| lcuk | i updated the packages yesterday too | 17:16 |
| mgedmin | in the end the flash player cached the first 5 seconds and refused to download the rest | 17:17 |
| lcuk | :( not good | 17:17 |
| lcuk | it just whirls around a bit and jumps through a few apps | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | that reminds me, I ought to snarf the video before I go home | 17:17 |
| lcuk | hand wavey stuff | 17:17 |
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| lcuk | mgedmin, the short one is better | 17:18 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGUKICDeok | 17:18 |
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| lcuk | it shows the flow better | 17:18 |
| lcuk | i have another going into detail, but theres no bang in it | 17:18 |
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| lcuk | X-Fade, im a mad inventor without a job tho, i might just have to setup a company and make my own job | 17:21 |
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| X-Fade | lcuk: All the smart people do ;) | 17:21 |
| derf | At least two or three times. | 17:22 |
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| lcuk | X-Fade, would be good to have people to boss around tho :D | 17:25 |
| * lcuk heads off and makes a plan | 17:25 | |
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| Shapeshifter | I don't see why people go on about the n900 having such an amazing camera. The image quality still is abysmal on any standart except for scales smaller then 500x280 or so. | 17:26 |
| lcuk | Shapeshifter, the camera is 10000000000000000x times better than the camera in my n810 | 17:26 |
| lcuk | hence camera == amazing | 17:26 |
| derf | Yeah, "abysmal" is a huge step up. | 17:27 |
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| Shapeshifter | derf: mhh, I guess that makes sense. | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | cunning Nokia plan: release three tablets with sucky hw & sw to reset everyone's expectations to a very low bar | 17:29 |
| mgedmin | then release something mediocre -- everybody will be amazed! | 17:29 |
| frals | haha | 17:29 |
| mgedmin | and it's not bad for a cellphone camera | 17:29 |
| mgedmin | probably even better than my old 3.2 Mpix Olympus | 17:29 |
| mgedmin | although lack of optical zoom is something I miss | 17:30 |
| Shapeshifter | yeah, I guess it's not bad for some people. But if I want to make pictures on the way, I still want them to look nice. I always have a pocket in the pocket. | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | I was just thinking this morning: nokia should build an SLR camera running Maemo | 17:30 |
| lcuk | ive never had a camera i can put code inside before | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | builtin gps + builtin 3g + direct upload to flickr == awesomey goodness | 17:30 |
| lcuk | where as i take a picture i can have my own processing occuring | 17:30 |
| Shapeshifter | lcuk: you can do that on some canon cameras | 17:30 |
| crashanddie | http://www.tigert.com/2009/10/18/photojourney-with-n900/ | 17:30 |
| crashanddie | nuff said | 17:30 |
| Shapeshifter | lcuk: there's a hacked firmware or something | 17:30 |
| lcuk | "i've never had" | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | tigert is a wizard | 17:31 |
| lcuk | sod hacking | 17:31 |
| crashanddie | The camera is good, especially when you think this is a programmable camera | 17:31 |
| lcuk | sod messing | 17:31 |
| lcuk | this is default and power of linux and maemo :) | 17:31 |
| * Myrtti inhales orange juice http://twitter.com/benroome/status/5070303927 | 17:31 | |
| lcuk | arghhhh patents | 17:32 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: absolutely agreed, the optics are good, but making it programmable is the best thing they could've ever done | 17:32 |
| lcuk | evil things | 17:32 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie: I just looked at these images, and they're good mostly because of the photographer. but if you look at the "Large" version of the butterfly for example, which is 1024x576 (and as such e.g. too small for a desktop wallpaper), you can already see smudges everywhere | 17:32 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: Now if only we could access the raw image. | 17:32 |
| frals | ye, patents are generally pretty evil :( | 17:32 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: we can | 17:32 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: well, theoretically | 17:32 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, the image processing guy said harmattan will have it somewhere i nthe stack | 17:32 |
| lcuk | its technically there now obviously | 17:32 |
| crashanddie | Shapeshifter: it's hosted by flickr ffs | 17:32 |
| crashanddie | Shapeshifter: that's not the original size | 17:33 |
| lcuk | but we would have to reimplementan awful lot | 17:33 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Yeah, I know ab ;) | 17:33 |
| lcuk | :D | 17:33 |
| lcuk | good good | 17:33 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie: uhm, of course the larger - original - image, is much worse | 17:33 |
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| crashanddie | Shapeshifter: do you have an n900? | 17:33 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie: I was saying that even the scaled down version already shows smudges at a level where it's too small. | 17:33 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie: not yet | 17:33 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: But anyway, there is a lot of processing done now. | 17:33 |
| * lcuk nods | 17:34 | |
| lcuk | seriously hard work | 17:34 |
| lcuk | and really well executed - bit of tucking in around the edges and this camera will rock | 17:34 |
| X-Fade | Can probably be a lot better, but who wants to wait for a minute for the image to process after taking a picture ;) | 17:34 |
| lcuk | yeah | 17:34 |
| crashanddie | Shapeshifter: then how about you don't slam the thing before you have a real hands on? | 17:35 |
| frals | would be pretty awesome to disable postprocessing and have the device do it later ;o | 17:35 |
| lcuk | +1 | 17:35 |
| X-Fade | frals: Indeed. | 17:35 |
| lcuk | frals, yeah | 17:35 |
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| lcuk | just idle time post processing | 17:35 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie: why on earth would the pictures _I_ make be any better then the ones uploaded by other users? | 17:35 |
| X-Fade | frals: Give a quick preview now and process in background. | 17:35 |
| frals | yeah | 17:35 |
| lcuk | frals, look at what we came up with during the maemo summit | 17:36 |
| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=342499 | 17:36 |
| crashanddie | Shapeshifter: for that exact reason | 17:36 |
| lcuk | especially the live editing and such | 17:36 |
| crashanddie | Shapeshifter: because they're uploaded? | 17:36 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie: also, why the commotion, I'm just saying that in my opinion the image is too bad for any use other then small scaled down pictures. | 17:36 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie: how does "uploading" destroy data? | 17:36 |
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| lcuk | Shapeshifter, please supply patches or real suggestions for how to make it better for everyone | 17:37 |
| * crashanddie gives up | 17:37 | |
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| Shapeshifter | lcuk: well I doubt they can be any better, they're already nice for such a small device | 17:37 |
| lcuk | if you notice a problem, its not constructive to just say "crap", maemo is open source community where we should all be helping each other | 17:37 |
| lcuk | not just bitching about aspects | 17:37 |
| frals | lcuk: yeah read through that earlier, cool stuff :) | 17:37 |
| * Shapeshifter also gives up | 17:38 | |
| X-Fade | To be fair, the lens is not that big. So what would you expect ;) | 17:38 |
| lcuk | is there a way to cleanup images taken with a bad sensor? | 17:38 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Gaussian blur? | 17:38 |
| lcuk | didnt they manage it with hubble | 17:38 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: and then shrink 2x | 17:38 |
| derf | ... | 17:38 |
| lcuk | i know with the n810 i halved the saturation | 17:39 |
| lcuk | it made them less snowy | 17:39 |
| X-Fade | But just watch CSI, they do this all the time ;) | 17:39 |
| lcuk | yeah! | 17:39 |
| lcuk | http://www.phun.org/newspics/funny_friday/3991.jpg | 17:39 |
| * lcuk saw this last night and laughed | 17:39 | |
| frals | should be a csi, they got some pretty advanced stuff there ;D | 17:39 |
| Ceron^ | the pic doesnt work | 17:39 |
| Ceron^ | :((( | 17:39 |
| frals | doesnt load for me either | 17:40 |
| lcuk | fixed in harmattan | 17:40 |
| lcuk | works for me | 17:40 |
| frals | doh! | 17:40 |
| frals | has a promising title either way | 17:40 |
| lcuk | its a bit of a dodgy blog with NSFW stuff elsewhere | 17:40 |
| frals | " Horny local girls looking for sex!" | 17:40 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: the hubble was precision-machined to incorrect specs | 17:40 |
| lcuk | if people want to see, pm me lol | 17:40 |
| mgedmin | they knew the optical properties exactly | 17:41 |
| lcuk | and fixed afterwards | 17:41 |
| crashanddie | Shapeshifter: and again, this has been re-processed by imageshack... http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2429/20091022018.jpg | 17:41 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/csi.jpg | 17:42 |
| crashanddie | to be honest, I agree that the processing sucks at the moment, but the actual camera gives good results... If we get a new image processing algo on it, quality is going to increase tenfold | 17:42 |
| lcuk | omg crashanddie stay away from the ladybird | 17:42 |
| lcuk | its evil | 17:42 |
| frals | lcuk: that one is awesome ;D | 17:42 |
| lcuk | and will wipe out civilization | 17:42 |
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| crashanddie | Shapeshifter: also, please note all those pictures are taken in 3.5 Mpx mode, not 5Mpx | 17:44 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie: I'm not too familiar with flicker to be honest, but it says "original size" at the top. now this doesn't mean it's original compression rate as well, but that's what I'm guessing, as the image is released under CC. http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/3947290860/sizes/o/ Also, I didn't know there was anything to improve. If it's the algorithm at fault, then I'm looking forward to any better results. But in such a small device, ... | 17:44 |
| Shapeshifter | ... the sensor is really, really tiny, as is the lense and the amount of light getting in... I was assuming that this is as good as it can get with current sensors. | 17:44 |
| X-Fade | Shapeshifter: On device publish function resizes the image. | 17:45 |
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| lcuk | X-Fade, i like your vote down own app suggestion, but its not intuitive | 17:45 |
| lcuk | maybe with a small label indicating such | 17:45 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: I already show votes from the maintainer differently. | 17:45 |
| Shapeshifter | X-Fade: ahh | 17:45 |
| Shapeshifter | I see. | 17:45 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: But we could show a message for maintainers.. | 17:46 |
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| crashanddie | Shapeshifter: the encoding is horrible, the sensor is better. If you look at the right corner of the picture I posted, you can see clearly those are sloppy encoding errors that appear (and because I can't keep the phone steady), not due to a lack of light. I'm not saying it'll ever be an SLR, just saying you shouldn't slam something so harshly, especially when you *know* it has potential | 17:48 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie: oh btw, I got my initial impression of the quality from the my-symbian review, where I'm pretty sure that he used the highest quality settings available with that firmware. And e.g. this picture http://my-symbian.com/other/grafika/n900_pic1.jpg doesn't look so good. I have no idea if this is down to the algo, but the clouds look unreal, as does the sand, and everything is grainy. | 17:48 |
| crashanddie | 403 Forbidden | 17:48 |
| Shapeshifter | I didn't intend to slam it ;) I take it back. | 17:48 |
| frals | that pic is pretty bad | 17:49 |
| X-Fade | Also keep in mind that the device isn't released yet. | 17:49 |
| Shapeshifter | oh, uhm: http://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php?page=1 2/3 down, first picture. | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | lol, still 403 Forbidden | 17:49 |
| frals | on the other hand, i dont expect a mobile device to take a *good* picture either :p | 17:49 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie: :o | 17:50 |
| frals | my n95 takes decent pictures anyway, as long as its not a downgrade im fine | 17:50 |
| frals | on the other hand im gonna be fine either way, i dont really take much pictures, as long as you can tell its a beer im drinking its good enuff for sending as an mms ;) | 17:50 |
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| X-Fade | frals: And the focus is sooo much faster. | 17:51 |
| frals | nice | 17:52 |
| X-Fade | And the video camera has focus now too. | 17:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | Has anyone seen a real camera review of the n900? | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | not - 'oooh - look at these carefully chosen shots' | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | But a comparison between it and other cameras, colour charts, resolution test charts, set scenes, ... | 17:53 |
| X-Fade | Once they will be in shops, I'm sure we will see them soon. | 17:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | yeah | 17:54 |
| * SpeedEvil checks for 'no you git, you can't use 3 discount coupons, order cancelled' email. | 17:54 | |
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| * Corsac waits for expansys coupons | 17:55 | |
| smackpotat | delayed again | 17:55 |
| RST38h | Sir Clive has been called a dumb inventor by LIFE Magazine | 17:56 |
| RST38h | What kind of freaking injustice is that?!? | 17:56 |
| lcuk | maemo summit 2010? http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/10/22/1232225 | 17:56 |
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| smackpotat | a-bike lol | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: :facepalm: | 17:58 |
| frals | lcuk: sign me up! ;) | 17:58 |
| SpeedEvil | The equivalent of 14.33/month over 18 months with contract, if it all goes to plan. | 17:59 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: WHO SAID THAT! | 17:59 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I will slash them with my sharpened ZX81, and then run them over with my C5, before beating them to death with a LED calculator! | 17:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | And desecrate their corpse with a small television. | 18:00 |
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| RST38h | SpeedEvil: http://www.life.com/image/3353549/in-gallery/25371/30-dumb-inventions #18 | 18:00 |
| RST38h | And the idiots were stupid enough to make jokes about His glasses' thickness! | 18:00 |
| RST38h | Heretics! | 18:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | And how the hell isn't a damn near pocket sized TV innovative in 1966. | 18:02 |
| RST38h | they call it dumb | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | hang on - that seems wrong - I remember 1984ish being closer | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I still have a - working - I think - z88 | 18:05 |
| lcuk | yayyy i can upload the images and conversation :) | 18:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | yep. | 18:07 |
| SpeedEvil | batteries in 'hard reset' - apps available in 10s. | 18:07 |
| smackpotat | i rea that the average person has 20 z80 processors in consumer devices | 18:07 |
| SpeedEvil | smackpotat: I'm unsure of that now. | 18:08 |
| RST38h | more or less, and there are pllenty arms as well | 18:08 |
| SpeedEvil | smackpotat: atmel, PIC, and 8032 variants, as well as 6031s have a large slice | 18:08 |
| SpeedEvil | zilog hasn't done so well recently | 18:08 |
| SpeedEvil | err - 6502 I mean | 18:09 |
| RST38h | By 8032 you really mean MCS51 family | 18:09 |
| lcuk | which forum do i post app ideas into | 18:09 |
| SpeedEvil | I have at least 2 6502s | 18:09 |
| * lcuk is confused by so many | 18:09 | |
| RST38h | 6502 has not been popular for a long time, too restrictive | 18:09 |
| smackpotat | the s1 mp3 player from china has a z80 with a dsp on a chip | 18:09 |
| RST38h | Chinese usually use mcs51+dsp, z80 is a luxury | 18:10 |
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| smackpotat | but mine has 5 buttons | 18:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Z88 even gets todays day right. | 18:11 |
| SpeedEvil | (when I set the clock from its default of 1987) | 18:11 |
| SpeedEvil | More importantly. | 18:12 |
| Solarion | SpeedEvil: but does it keep leap seconds? | 18:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Can I run maemo5 on it? | 18:12 |
| smackpotat | haqhaha | 18:12 |
| SpeedEvil | (the 6502s are in LCD photo-frames) | 18:13 |
| smackpotat | ok coffee's calling | 18:13 |
| RST38h | will it run Mer? =) | 18:13 |
| RST38h | LCD photo frames are usually ARMs | 18:13 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: It has 512K of RAM. | 18:13 |
| RST38h | Wow | 18:13 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: arm? | 18:13 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I've not seen any arm - way smaller than that typically, with a coprocessor to handle the screen | 18:14 |
| SpeedEvil | The 6502 is in a 1.1" keychain one | 18:14 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.ebuyer.com/product/130743 - forex | 18:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Processor: NXP LPC2103 + Solomon SSD1928 | 18:15 |
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| Myrtti | will it blend? | 18:17 |
| RST38h | that is a really cheap frame =) | 18:19 |
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| lbt_ | lcuk: ping | 18:24 |
| lcuk | smell | 18:24 |
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| jeremiah | Yeah, what is that smell? | 18:25 |
| RST38h | bacon? | 18:25 |
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| jeremiah | I don't see no lardman | 18:25 |
| jeremiah | lbt_: Did you see my mail to maemo - community? | 18:26 |
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| jeremiah | lbt_: Does Mer want to participate in the distro room at FOSDEM? | 18:26 |
| lcuk | go for it jeremiah ! | 18:27 |
| jeremiah | w00t! | 18:27 |
| jeremiah | party on Wayne! | 18:27 |
| w00t | jeremiah! | 18:27 |
| lcuk | lol | 18:28 |
| lcuk | you get miscalled more often than anyone | 18:28 |
| jeremiah | Is that a bot? Or a human? | 18:28 |
| * jeremiah pokes w00t | 18:28 | |
| w00t | (I love this nick at times) | 18:28 |
| w00t | I'm as human as lcuk | 18:28 |
| w00t | read into that statement what you will! | 18:28 |
| jeremiah | ITS ALIVE!!!! | 18:28 |
| * lcuk is not human | 18:28 | |
| w00t | :-) | 18:28 |
| jeremiah | I didn't say it was human. Just alive. | 18:29 |
| w00t | hehe | 18:29 |
| jeremiah | Humanoid perhaps. | 18:29 |
| lcuk | i am an ai generated in the year 2648 when maemo devices are rrunning on 99.5% of the galaxies computers | 18:29 |
| jeremiah | Carbon based lifeform with a predilection for binary data | 18:29 |
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| Myrtti | lcuk: who have you come to save from our robotic overlords? | 18:29 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: I see the stutttttering key problem hasn't been solved in the year 2648 yet | 18:30 |
| mgedmin | http://xkcd.com/652/ | 18:30 |
| lcuk | no robotic overlords, the world is peaceful and maintained by a neutral dictator in penguin form | 18:30 |
| jeremiah | I wonder about the percent of visitors who go to xkcd.com via IRC. | 18:31 |
| lcuk | heh, how quant, xkcd in electronic form | 18:31 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: You get them telepahically inserted? | 18:32 |
| * suihkulokki foresees a epic flamewar in close future | 18:32 | |
| mgedmin | haha http://picasaweb.google.com/cschlaeger/JapanLinuxSymposium#5395358413061926434 | 18:32 |
| RST38h | Oh yessss, finally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkmRPJv5jZE&feature=player_embedded# | 18:32 |
| jeremiah | mgedmin: Awesome photo | 18:33 |
| lcuk | hehe | 18:33 |
| lcuk | linus is a d00d | 18:33 |
| lcuk | phew, no user with that nick | 18:33 |
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| w00t | lol. | 18:33 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: should have been running BSD, mister penguin! | 18:34 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, its ok, you missed the internet war of 2254, the wildebeast population almost went extinct | 18:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | it was recovered from the 4chan DNA archive though. | 18:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | Once the genes that coded for the purple text had been removed. | 18:38 |
| tigert | crashanddie, SpeedEvil: widescreen photos are 3.5mpix | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | tigert: ? | 18:40 |
| tigert | 4:3 is 5mpix | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | tigert: oh - no. I mean optical resolution. | 18:40 |
| tigert | or who was discussing photo megapixels above | 18:40 |
| crashanddie | tigert: I know | 18:40 |
| tigert | those CC N900 photos of mine in flickr are 1:1 original afaik | 18:41 |
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| crashanddie | tigert: [15:45] <crashanddie> Shapeshifter: also, please note all those pictures are taken in 3.5 Mpx mode, not 5Mpx | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | tigert: Take a picture of a grid of black and white squares - what number of pixels does each square have to be visible, or 100% transfer funciton | 18:41 |
| tigert | straight upload from the device unless i wrote otherwise | 18:41 |
| tigert | crashanddie: exactly | 18:41 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Do you really want to have a proof that the camera isn't exactly an SLR? | 18:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Of course not. | 18:42 |
| tigert | its its not | 18:42 |
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| mgedmin | tigert: there are options on the device that let you shrink the size before uploading, which IIRC is on by default | 18:42 |
| tigert | and it doesnt matter | 18:42 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Then why go to such lengths? | 18:42 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: however - I'd like to be able to compare it with my existing camera. | 18:42 |
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| RST38h | tigert: Well, in the perpetual twilight that will only end around march/april here it matters | 18:43 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: If your existing camera is at least a consumer-grade point&shoot, your camera will be better | 18:43 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Well, cheaper Samsung /Casio/etc cameras will actually be worse a little bit | 18:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Or rather - see how bad it is in comparison. | 18:44 |
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| RST38h | It is not bad, but forget about shooting inside buildings, in twilight, or with heavy cloud cover | 18:44 |
| RST38h | Will do pretty decent shots on a sunny day though. And yes, I badly miss zoom :) | 18:45 |
| tigert | mgedmin: I upload fullsize | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: There is a way round that | 18:45 |
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| RST38h | not tha I know of | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7957 | 18:46 |
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| VRADPITO | *-------- I am Argentino. Im searching TEEN / BABY dirty and provoking to masturbate with me CAMxCAM nowww !!! . Want you to allow me please with you? | 18:46 |
| VRADPITO | ? | 18:46 |
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| RST38h | SpeedEvil: ... | 18:46 |
| RST38h | funny, yes. | 18:46 |
| SpeedEvil | VRADPITO - you've implemented video chat? | 18:46 |
| crashanddie | tigert & mgedmin: as far i can tell, it's flickr that resizes the pictures (unless you have a premium account). The device is configured to send the original size | 18:46 |
| RST38h | Ah, an FBI agent! | 18:46 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: those add-on lenses are not a complete joke. For a while I was using a pair of binocs, and a webcam as a telephoto webcam | 18:48 |
| SpeedEvil | not a complete joke in principle | 18:49 |
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| RST38h | SpeedEvil: I would just carry a P&S. | 18:50 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: that too. But a case with it stored at the end and a nice fast way to clip it on may not be utterly insane. | 18:51 |
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| pablo_ | where i find packages for armel ? -->libgles2-dev | 19:08 |
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| _gpg_ | hello | 19:11 |
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| _gpg_ | It looks like maemo project has an OpenGLES 1.x emulation wrapper on top of OpenGLES 2.0 ? | 19:12 |
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| tigert | crashanddie: yes | 19:17 |
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| tigert | crashanddie: my CC license photos are fullsize | 19:17 |
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| tigert | i have a flickr pro account | 19:17 |
| tigert | but when i say "the camera is good" i dont mean the pixel resolution | 19:18 |
| tigert | i mean, the colors and contrast is nice, overall look is nice, depth of field in macro is nicely a bit shallow etc | 19:19 |
| tigert | in short, it works as a creative tool for me | 19:19 |
| tigert | i am not interested in absolute resolution etc, or super depth of field | 19:20 |
| tigert | all i say is this is the most creatively-fun camera in a "phone" i have used | 19:20 |
| tigert | the limits stimulate my brain | 19:20 |
| tigert | <ugh> i have spoken ;) | 19:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | encore | 19:21 |
| tigert | ;) | 19:22 |
| lcuk | tigert, "theres more to photography than pixel count alone" :) | 19:22 |
| tigert | exactly | 19:22 |
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| tigert | 99% of the time I scale down to use a photo anyway | 19:23 |
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| lcuk | i love how hubble manages to get stunning photos from only 1mpix | 19:23 |
| tigert | even for print | 19:23 |
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| ccooke | Damn. | 19:27 |
| lcuk | mmm ccooke ? | 19:27 |
| ccooke | Just had the same problem as mgedmin did this morning, but I'm using the phone a lot today and had to reboot without doing more diagnostics :-/ | 19:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | You do know that you can kill hildon-desktop, instead of rebooting, right? (Ctrl-Shift-X for a Terminal) | 19:28 |
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| ccooke | qwerty12_N810: I didn't :-) | 19:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I've had it happen once :) | 19:29 |
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| _berto_ | Nokia suing Apple over the iPhone http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8321058.stm | 19:31 |
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| ccooke | (wow, that's so much faster. I wonder if this is a degenerative problem. Should have checked uptime) | 19:34 |
| lbt900 | wow xchat needs maemoing | 19:34 |
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| lbt900 | what ccooke | 19:35 |
| frals | restarting hildon-desktop, i think | 19:35 |
| ccooke | lbt900: the difference between a just-rebooted n900 and one that's been running a while. | 19:36 |
| lbt900 | ok | 19:36 |
| ccooke | When I'm not working, I'll have to play around a bit and find out more. | 19:36 |
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| lbt900 | nod | 19:37 |
| lbt900 | l8r | 19:39 |
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| * GeneralAntilles sighs. | 19:42 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I guess everything maemo..org is now officially "Maemo" | 19:42 |
| RST38h | ? | 19:43 |
| qwerty12_N810 | (Now he gets it) | 19:43 |
| RST38h | something happened? | 19:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Maemo Bugzilla", "Maemo Wiki", etc. | 19:43 |
| RST38h | penguinbait has been right all along? | 19:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | New coucil that doesn't seem to get it happened. ;) | 19:43 |
| wazd_ | hehe | 19:43 |
| wazd_ | Nokia: We need multitouch license | 19:44 |
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| wazd_ | Apple: No | 19:44 |
| wazd_ | Nokia: Ok | 19:44 |
| RST38h | wazd: apparently. | 19:44 |
| caotic | if a class requires certain external libraries, what is the more clean way to include them ? [<?php include_once("mylibrary.php"); class Myclass { .. } ] --> class.MyClass.php ? | 19:44 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: Hmm, want a mouse trap for the person concerned? | 19:44 |
| RST38h | the cleanest way is to avoid using classes in php | 19:44 |
| RST38h | keep it dumb and simple | 19:45 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: Ari told not long ago bout "you know, we have some interesting patents too" | 19:45 |
| Corsac | multitouch licenses? | 19:45 |
| RST38h | wazd: Yea, and he said it more than once | 19:45 |
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| lcuk | the cleanest way is to stop trying to be ninjas and actually make intuitive interfaces which just do what you expect them to without getting a nervous twictch | 19:50 |
| lcuk | twitch | 19:50 |
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| vasily_pupkin | eh | 19:59 |
| vasily_pupkin | where can I find javidespero? | 19:59 |
| qwerty12_N810 | At a Real Madrid football match... | 20:00 |
| vasily_pupkin | oh shi ^_^ | 20:00 |
| vasily_pupkin | maybe anyone use his patched wlancond? | 20:01 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | I have it installed but that's as far as it goes... :/ | 20:01 |
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| caotic | is there any difference when using in prepared statements to use the '?' markup or the ":some_string" ? | 20:23 |
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| lardman | evening all | 20:24 |
| RST38h | hello lardan | 20:24 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Morning, lardman | 20:24 |
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| RST38h | [m] | 20:24 |
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| lardman | hey chaps | 20:25 |
| * lcuk waves | 20:25 | |
| lcuk | and moos | 20:25 |
| lcuk | and stuff | 20:25 |
| * lardman waves back | 20:25 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: you're meant to blank him... | 20:25 |
| lardman | the wonders of British Rail, all my trains were late | 20:25 |
| lardman | ah, /ignore? | 20:25 |
| lcuk | ill come down to london and kick your ass as well qwerty | 20:26 |
| lcuk | oh look, im going to london tomorrow! | 20:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hehe | 20:26 |
| lcuk | whos been to a barcamp before | 20:26 |
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| lardman | I've been to a bar in a camp before | 20:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman knows all about going into bars in camp clothing... | 20:27 |
| lcuk | haha | 20:27 |
| lardman | oh, you've seen the photos of my 30th have you....? | 20:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Sure: www.englandscampestpeople.com | 20:28 |
| lardman | lol | 20:28 |
| lardman | hang on, I'll find you the real deal | 20:28 |
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| lcuk | lol qwerty12_N810 yeah, his photos have been mysteriously on the frontpage of that site for the last 6 months | 20:28 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | haha | 20:29 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, if i were you, i wouldnt look when he shows em you | 20:29 |
| lcuk | you cannot unsee things | 20:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Good point | 20:29 |
| lardman | you'll be tempted, you know you can't resist | 20:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Do I look like Mrs. lardman (don't you dare answer that)? | 20:30 |
| lardman | http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/SPM_A0050.jpg | 20:30 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: no | 20:30 |
| lcuk | NSFW | 20:31 |
| lardman | actually from my Stag do, but close enough | 20:31 |
| lcuk | NSFH | 20:31 |
| lcuk | NSFanywhere | 20:31 |
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| * lardman needs to look that one up | 20:31 | |
| lardman | http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/nsfh/ ? | 20:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | WTF | 20:31 |
| lcuk | not safe for work | 20:31 |
| lcuk | not safe for home | 20:31 |
| lardman | ah I see | 20:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | not safe for humans | 20:31 |
| lardman | no, nothing dodgy in there | 20:31 |
| lcuk | o_O good one | 20:32 |
| lcuk | wheres the other ones simon | 20:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: Erm, you've just destroyed my eyesight :/ | 20:32 |
| lbt | any council people here? | 20:32 |
| lardman | burned on your retina I trust! | 20:32 |
| lbt | zerojay: aha | 20:32 |
| lbt | zerojay: suggestion: can we get all the maemo docs on forum.nokia.com copied to maemo.org so I never have to visit that tarpit of mindless beauracratic nonsense again | 20:34 |
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| lcuk | lbt, qwerty12_N810 is on the council now | 20:34 |
| lcuk | hes a binman | 20:34 |
| lbt | no good he just went blind | 20:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: No, I'm head binman, I tell you what to do | 20:35 |
| lbt | ps loved the csi jpg from earlier | 20:35 |
| timeless | GAN: ping | 20:35 |
| lcuk | :D indeed, it was wicked | 20:35 |
| lbt | what's the url again | 20:35 |
| timeless | in application manager... | 20:35 |
| lbt | want to show lpt | 20:35 |
| * lardman heads to do some cooking | 20:36 | |
| lcuk | liqbase.net/csi.jpg (maybe) | 20:36 |
| RST38h | who is lpt? a printer? | 20:36 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/csi.jpg (maybe) | 20:36 |
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| timeless | is there any reason that i need to show "Updating $APPNAME" instead of just "$APPNAME" ? | 20:36 |
| lbt | RST38h: little ping thing | 20:36 |
| lbt | not to be confused with little blue thing | 20:36 |
| RST38h | ah | 20:37 |
| lardman|chef | lcuk: you know if you have some frames of video you really can do that | 20:37 |
| lardman|chef | lcuk: perhaps not that great, but it works very nicely - subpixel interpolation | 20:37 |
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| lcuk | yeah | 20:37 |
| lardman|chef | anyway, my wife will kill me if I don't do some cooking today, so I'll bbl | 20:37 |
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| lcuk | cya later simon | 20:37 |
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| howitzer` | What's this I just read, N900 delayed until November? | 20:39 |
| RST38h | yes. and it comes out in pink. | 20:39 |
| RST38h | those black ones were prototypes. | 20:40 |
| howitzer` | I always wanted a pink one | 20:40 |
| ccooke | Hmm. Good. | 20:40 |
| qwerty12_N810 | N900 is a fake. Nokia's plan is to really ship iPhones. | 20:41 |
| ccooke | There do appear to be a few sw bugs to get shifted before release. | 20:41 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Yes, this is why they are suing apple | 20:41 |
| RST38h | It is a merger in the making | 20:41 |
| ccooke | Sounds perfect... | 20:41 |
| SpeedEvil | RST: yeah - apple gave them the rights to settle the patent suit. | 20:41 |
| qwerty12_N810 | All part of the greater good, greater good, I tell you... | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | qwerty12_N810: obviously :-( | 20:42 |
| * Stskeeps wonders how much time it would take to make a hildon-status-area tray area | 20:43 | |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: nm-applet?... | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: not necessarily, but for normal apps | 20:43 |
| * timeless sighs | 20:43 | |
| Stskeeps | i mean, inside the status area you could have one | 20:43 |
| * timeless shakes head at qgil's comment | 20:44 | |
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| timeless | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4322#c4 | 20:44 |
| timeless | This ... has proven to | 20:44 |
| timeless | work well for millions. | 20:44 |
| timeless | --- | 20:44 |
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| Stskeeps | advanced alarm | 20:44 |
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| timeless | except it is among a series of features from a vendor from which millions do not purchase products | 20:44 |
| * timeless sighs | 20:44 | |
| timeless | ok... | 20:45 |
| timeless | Alaram set (Turns on device and always plays a sound) | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | hack alarmd? :P | 20:46 |
| timeless | nno | 20:47 |
| timeless | i'm just trying to fix the localization | 20:47 |
| suihkulokki | if the alarm would _not_ ring in silent mode there would be a much bigger whine from people not waking up to work... | 20:47 |
| timeless | I can change a couple of strings | 20:47 |
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| timeless | suihkulokki: it wasn't a problem for me | 20:47 |
| timeless | my calendar flashed and woke me up, no sound | 20:48 |
| timeless | anyway, i'm not asking for the behavior to change | 20:48 |
| suihkulokki | and you are the prototype of a average dude? | 20:48 |
| timeless | i just want to fix the signage | 20:48 |
| lcuk | of course! | 20:48 |
| lcuk | timeless *IS* average joe! | 20:48 |
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| timeless | so, i can change the alarm editing title | 20:49 |
| timeless | and i can change the alarm active checkbox text | 20:49 |
| * suihkulokki thinks timeless will kill me tomorrow if I go to work | 20:49 | |
| timeless | maybe i'll dunk you in water | 20:49 |
| tigert | you should not SET the fricken alarm if you dont want it | 20:49 |
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| timeless | like the judge would do to the phone if it rang in his courtroom | 20:49 |
| timeless | tigert: most people don't read the manual | 20:49 |
| timeless | speaking of which, did anyone teach the bot the url for the manual? | 20:50 |
| timeless | again, i don't care about the behavior | 20:50 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: what's your most recent theme template? | 20:50 |
| timeless | what bothers me is that people can be surprised by the behavior | 20:50 |
| timeless | http://nds1.nokia.com/files/support/nam/phones/guides/Nokia_N900_Rover_en-US_es-LAM.pdf | 20:51 |
| timeless | link seems dead :( | 20:51 |
| _gpg_ | It looks like mamemo has a library wrapping OpenGLES 1.x on top of OpenGLES 2.x, any one know the library name ? | 20:51 |
| timeless | http://nds1.nokia.com/declaration_of_confirmity/files/declaration_of_conformity/N900_-_RX-51.pdf | 20:52 |
| timeless | :) | 20:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless, context for the updating string? | 20:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, I'd just as soon not have them on http://maemo.org. | 20:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, less stuff X-Fade and dneary need to worry over and less Nokia stuff we have to accommodate in general. | 20:54 |
| tigert | timeless: most people dont take an alarm clock which is armed, to a courtroom | 20:54 |
| tigert | but, | 20:54 |
| tigert | i keep my phone on silent during night | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | If only people would treat movie theaters with such respect. | 20:54 |
| tigert | and I want to wake up to the alarm in the morning | 20:54 |
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| * GeneralAntilles has to sit in the front row or else the flashing screens from people texting will drive him into a killing frenzy. | 20:55 | |
| aSIMULAtur | what's the bot's nick | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | infobot | 20:55 |
| tigert | now, you kneww it will aloarm even if it is turned off, right? :) | 20:55 |
| aSIMULAtur | lul | 20:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: Florida already has one Dexter... | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey, infobot! | 20:55 |
| tigert | as long as the battery is in | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | infobot, I'm talking to you! | 20:55 |
| tigert | IIRC | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damn bot. | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~smack self. | 20:55 |
| * infobot smacks self. upside the head. | 20:56 | |
| aSIMULAtur | your mom is <reply> blah balh | 20:56 |
| qwerty12_N810 | infobot: hello | 20:56 |
| infobot | Howdy Bub | 20:56 |
| aSIMULAtur | your mom | 20:56 |
| aSIMULAtur | waa | 20:56 |
| wao | waa? | 20:56 |
| _gpg_ | i guess i'll be kicked from this chan :)= | 20:56 |
| _gpg_ | i'm just confused when i read http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenGL-ES | 20:57 |
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| timeless | tigert: do you take an alarm clock with you to the opera or movies? | 21:01 |
| timeless | i went to a ballet a few weeks ago | 21:01 |
| howitzer` | If you fall asleep in the cinema then it's good to have an alarmclock | 21:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | howitzer`: Meh, the slaps that follow your alarmclock going off are more likely to wake you up... | 21:03 |
| tigert | timeless: somehow I should have guessed it was you, sorry =) | 21:03 |
| tigert | heard about that | 21:03 |
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| timeless | tigert: actually, i haven't had any problems | 21:05 |
| timeless | i don't use recurring alarams from the alarm clock | 21:05 |
| timeless | but as a localizer, i want to improve the user experience by decreasing surprises | 21:05 |
| tigert | but my big use case against that bug is | 21:05 |
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| tigert | that alarm clock shouldnt force me to keep ringing sounds on | 21:05 |
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| tigert | so the only thing that wakes me is the alarm sound | 21:06 |
| * timeless nods | 21:06 | |
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| timeless | i'm not asking to change the behavior | 21:08 |
| timeless | i just need to figure out how to explain it | 21:08 |
| tigert | yeah | 21:09 |
| timeless | ok | 21:09 |
| tigert | I guess its always a compromise | 21:09 |
| timeless | i think i'm going to rename "Silent" to "Alarm Clock only" | 21:09 |
| timeless | objections? | 21:09 |
| timeless | speak now, or forever be silenced unless you're an alarm clock | 21:10 |
| tigert | its "Silent" on all other devices | 21:10 |
| timeless | i'm willing to eat that inconsistency | 21:10 |
| timeless | what is it on your ipod? | 21:10 |
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| * timeless frowns | 21:12 | |
| timeless | my ipod is missing | 21:12 |
| tigert | I dont think it has alarm | 21:12 |
| * timeless calls "here iPod iPod" | 21:12 | |
| tigert | its the small nano or mini or whatever | 21:12 |
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| tigert | I never use it anyway | 21:13 |
| tigert | one device in the pocket is enough :S | 21:13 |
| * timeless has an iPod touch | 21:15 | |
| timeless | the problem is that the one device in your pocket takes up too much space =b | 21:15 |
| * timeless tends to carry around 2 n900s and assorted other toys | 21:16 | |
| crashanddie_ | tmo needs mods | 21:16 |
| crashanddie_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33269 <-- move to community or off-topic, not N900 | 21:17 |
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| BluesLee | has anyone some infos why the delivery of the n900 is again delayed? | 21:19 |
| lcuk | truck broke down | 21:19 |
| lcuk | didnt have nokia tyres or something | 21:19 |
| adeus | they're out of components | 21:20 |
| crashanddie_ | british post strike | 21:20 |
| lcuk | haha | 21:21 |
| SpeedEvil | They were busy porting android. | 21:21 |
| BluesLee | okay, i believe all of you | 21:21 |
| BluesLee | hehe | 21:21 |
| timeless | we decided that we wanted to make sure all the people who had guessed our release date would be wrong | 21:22 |
| BluesLee | i think they should communicate something | 21:22 |
| timeless | it's to teach people to stop guessing release dates | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: or to let the pandora win in the release race :o | 21:22 |
| Flyser | BluesLee: they did | 21:22 |
| timeless | if their software ends up being worse than ours, that'd be amusing | 21:22 |
| BluesLee | Flyser: details? | 21:23 |
| Flyser | just a second | 21:23 |
| timeless | i think we announced something last night at the nokia store :) | 21:23 |
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| timeless | not sure what though | 21:23 |
| lcuk | i think javispedro actually wet himself last night | 21:24 |
| Flyser | BluesLee: this quote is from talk.maemo.org http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/10/22/nokia-n900-not-coming-until-some-time-in-november/ | 21:24 |
| Flyser | oh. wrong link | 21:25 |
| Flyser | one more second :D | 21:25 |
| Meizirkki | where to get n900 firmware ? | 21:25 |
| timeless | http://n900blog.wordpress.com/2009/10/22/n900-officially-delayed/ | 21:25 |
| timeless | meizirkki: eh? | 21:26 |
| BluesLee | haha, waiting for feedback | 21:26 |
| Flyser | timeless: yeah. that's what I was searching for | 21:26 |
| timeless | we don't share firmware w/ people who haven't contracted or purchased hardware | 21:26 |
| Meizirkki | There's no firmware / flashing tools for n900? | 21:26 |
| timeless | there are | 21:27 |
| timeless | we just haven't put them into the open | 21:27 |
| timeless | what would you flash? | 21:27 |
| timeless | we aren't sharing images | 21:27 |
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| timeless | when you buy a device, you can download the flasher | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: mer, duh ;p | 21:27 |
| Meizirkki | eh.. i had a crazy idea of kicking it on my Touch Book :D | 21:27 |
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| timeless | and then when there's an updated image, you can download that | 21:28 |
| timeless | and flash it | 21:28 |
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| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: you don't want to walk down that path, trust me on that | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:28 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps, ok :) | 21:28 |
| timeless | note that from memory, we never provide the original firmware as a flashable image | 21:28 |
| timeless | i could be wrong | 21:28 |
| * Meizirkki installs Mer | 21:28 | |
| timeless | but yeah, i'd suggest you install Mer | 21:28 |
| timeless | there's no guarantee that we wouldn't fry whatever you have because we expect a very specific layout | 21:28 |
| * Stskeeps should fix the touchscreen issue at some point | 21:28 | |
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| Meizirkki | What does the nokia fbdev need btw ? I have SGX libraries installed (as the Xorg won't start up with nokia fbdev is they aren't there ) | 21:31 |
| Meizirkki | it just freezes my Touch Book | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meizirkki, flasher communicates with NOLO anyway. | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | flasher-3.5 is available | 21:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | but there are no Maemo 5 FIASCO images in public. | 21:34 |
| Meizirkki | k | 21:34 |
| ali1234 | the flasher can build images though right? | 21:35 |
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| timeless | not really | 21:38 |
| timeless | the flasher can take an image and send it to the device, or if the image has pieces, send only certain pieces | 21:38 |
| ccooke | ooh, now that's interesting. | 21:38 |
| timeless | but it can't take a random set of files like an .iso and make it into an image | 21:38 |
| timeless | there are a couple of pieces, i think i lost count, say roughly 5 | 21:38 |
| timeless | in general, most people flash a set of what i think is 4 as a single bundle | 21:39 |
| * ccooke just found an open-source port of the game Mega-lo-mania. That ought to run nicely on the 900 :-) | 21:39 | |
| timeless | and then one more for the emmc | 21:39 |
| timeless | note that this is a random number, i don't have flasher output handy and don't want to share it anyway :) | 21:39 |
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| * timeless pokes gan | 21:44 | |
| timeless | please pong | 21:44 |
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| GAN900 | pong | 21:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless, it's more like 10 pieces these days. | 21:48 |
| Jaffa | re | 21:48 |
| jospoortvliet | http://regelmann.ch/blog/2009/10/2009-10-22-i-love-xkcd/ | 21:48 |
| * qwerty12_N810 hits Bundyo for putting libwebkit in user/ | 21:48 | |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a lot of crap in user/ that shouldn't be there. | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | and a weirdly large number of maintainers insisting it should be. | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | should give negative karmaa | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:49 |
| RST38h | It is all subjective | 21:49 |
| * GeneralAntilles is completely boggled at the MishaS putting the convenience of a dozen or so extreme edge-case users ahead of all the rest. | 21:50 | |
| Jaffa | libzlibrary from fbreader is in my bugbear list; but then the maintainers seem to have dropped off the face of the community | 21:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Likely holed up in the cathedral. | 21:50 |
| coldboot | So I quit my job on Friday, last day tomorrow. | 21:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | The last discussion on the subject was not encouraging. | 21:50 |
| timeless | which is this? | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | coldboot: preparing for spending your whole days with your n900? ;p | 21:50 |
| coldboot | The flicker bug fix got pushed to Diablo. | 21:50 |
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| coldboot | Stskeeps: It's not mine, it's the company's, I don't even have a Nokia device. | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | future, then :P | 21:51 |
| coldboot | Stskeeps: Going traveling, then starting a web programming job. | 21:51 |
| coldboot | Stskeeps: Maybe, if they make it thinner. | 21:51 |
| RST38h | like iPhone?> | 21:51 |
| * RST38h ducks | 21:51 | |
| GeneralAntilles | coldboot, the N900's thickness really isn't an issue. | 21:51 |
| coldboot | It is for me. | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29526 | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | coldboot, have you handled one? | 21:52 |
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| coldboot | Thanks for all your help, guys, with tracking down the flicker bug. | 21:52 |
| coldboot | GeneralAntilles: Yeah we've got an n900 at work. | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah | 21:53 |
| coldboot | GeneralAntilles: It's kind of fat. Most Maemo users won't mind, it's not that bad. | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | coldboot: what flicker bug btw? (out of curiousity) | 21:53 |
| * GeneralAntilles doesn't get all of the people wearing super tight pants these days. | 21:53 | |
| timeless | gan: stupid europeans w/ their tight pants ;-) | 21:53 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: On some, it's a good look. | 21:53 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: It's a stupid argument anyway, as App Mgr in M5 won't allow them to install from a file, Section: user/ or no ;-) | 21:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, usually those persons have handbags. :P | 21:53 |
| coldboot | Flicker bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4691 | 21:54 |
| coldboot | Stskeeps: ^ | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | ta | 21:54 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Given there's been no obvious effort from MishaS on fremantlising FBreader, despite being a Star and (I assume) flown to Helsinki - I think it needs a new maintainer :-/ | 21:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Isn't MishaS IN Helsinki? ;) | 21:56 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: How good are you at kidnapping people? | 21:57 |
| timeless | not very | 21:58 |
| timeless | i think james is better | 21:58 |
| qwerty12_N810 | heh | 21:58 |
| timeless | jaffa: ping | 21:58 |
| timeless | http://maemo.org/profile/view/mishas/ | 21:58 |
| timeless | Mikhail Sobolev Member Since 1970-01-01 | 21:58 |
| timeless | ^^^^^^ | 21:58 |
| Proteous | heh | 21:59 |
| SpeedEvil | epoch fail. | 21:59 |
| coldboot | SpeedEvil: hahahahhahaha | 21:59 |
| coldboot | So good | 21:59 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Same with lardman, but he gets the added benefit of being on the front page 24/7... | 21:59 |
| crashanddie_ | coldboot, xkcd quote :) | 21:59 |
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| timeless | hrm, i'm not a member since before i was born | 21:59 |
| timeless | i guess that's a good thing | 21:59 |
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| trofi | worth mentioning in 'cv' (with maemo since The Very Start) | 22:00 |
| coldboot | crashanddie_: ah, too bad. | 22:00 |
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| crashanddie_ | qwerty12_N810, there's a club specially for you that's going to do a special night | 22:00 |
| crashanddie_ | well, maybe not specially for you | 22:00 |
| crashanddie_ | but it made me laugh out loud so hard | 22:00 |
| crashanddie_ | basically, there's a gay bar/night club not very far from my office | 22:00 |
| crashanddie_ | (and actually, not very far from where we held the ODZ event) | 22:01 |
| Jaffa | timeless: pong | 22:01 |
| crashanddie_ | I walked past it at lunch... Next weekend they're holding a "Hardon Collider" weekend | 22:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | rofl | 22:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, lol, I saw that on /. months ago. | 22:02 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, saw it too, but this is an actual party | 22:02 |
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| timeless | jaffa: can you please fix epoch fail ^^? | 22:06 |
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| * crashanddie_ loves the fanboyism on the patent thread | 22:07 | |
| dmj7261 | would be nice if all the patent fights were unnecessary | 22:08 |
| crashanddie_ | oh come on | 22:08 |
| crashanddie_ | patent suits are fun | 22:08 |
| crashanddie_ | they're the only discussions that are worth having with the guys from the other floor during coffee break | 22:08 |
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| dmj7261 | Personally I prefer a programmer being paid over a lawyer | 22:09 |
| hardaker | what about programmers offering legal advice? | 22:09 |
| coldboot | If the legal system was refactored, we wouldn't need so many lawyers. | 22:09 |
| crashanddie_ | dmj7261, without lawyers, the programmer wouldn't get paid | 22:09 |
| crashanddie_ | dmj7261, because everyone would be able to steal your work as soon as you release it | 22:10 |
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| crashanddie_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=355704&postcount=62 | 22:10 |
| * crashanddie_ stretches arms, gets the popcorn out, and hopes to get a nice answer | 22:10 | |
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| dmj7261 | It's not that I think there should be *no* lawyers but the current legal environment with respect to copyright and patents has grown too restrictive, complicated, and litiguous to promote the progress it's intended to. | 22:12 |
| coldboot | None of this shit motivates people to be creative and make new things. | 22:12 |
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| coldboot | It means that the only players are huge with giant war chests, and nobody else can survive. | 22:13 |
| * lcuk doesnt want to die | 22:13 | |
| coldboot | RIM had to pay out half a billion dollars because NTP or something had a patent for "sending email wirelessly through the air with a device". Patently absurd. | 22:13 |
| coldboot | It's challenging to find a software patent that's obvious. | 22:14 |
| dmj7261 | Besides, I know lots of programmers who couldn't care less if they have patent protection or not. In fact if people are copying your work, they're well behind you in that area | 22:14 |
| coldboot | That's not obvious, I mean. | 22:14 |
| coldboot | It's more about the original idea, the community around it, the sound implementation and the marketing. | 22:14 |
| coldboot | Getting a head start makes a huge difference. | 22:14 |
| dmj7261 | Who here has made a program that has a "pop-up window"? | 22:15 |
| timeless | btw, the solution for the always playing alarm sound is to get a silent .wav file and use it :) | 22:15 |
| timeless | dmj7261: zenity --alart ? | 22:15 |
| coldboot | There's also not much investment to implement a particular piece of software, making hardware requires much more money and time. | 22:15 |
| timeless | err --alertr | 22:15 |
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| * timeless gives up | 22:15 | |
| dmj7261 | anyone who has is likely violating a patent | 22:15 |
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| dmj7261 | Patents on hardware may be fine. I haven't done much research into their effects in that field. | 22:17 |
| coldboot | Yeah I can see how there is a case for hardware patents. | 22:17 |
| coldboot | But I haven't seen software patents that make any sense at all. | 22:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Some hardware patents. | 22:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Some are just as broken. | 22:17 |
| coldboot | Yeah, not all. | 22:17 |
| coldboot | The patent system in general is retarded, it has bad incentives for approving patents. | 22:18 |
| dmj7261 | I'm not convinced either way on hardware patents in general | 22:18 |
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| coldboot | Think about some thing that someone's made that took years of effort to figure out what works. | 22:18 |
| dmj7261 | the current patent system does have bad incentives | 22:18 |
| SpeedEvil | many patents I've seen are of the class that if you put a competant technician in a well stocked lab with the problem, they will solve it in the way mentioned in the patent without ever reading the patent | 22:18 |
| RST38h | that is the whole point | 22:19 |
| dmj7261 | yeah, or come up with the same thing to a completely different pproblem | 22:19 |
| RST38h | it is called patent trolling | 22:19 |
| SpeedEvil | But of course - patent examiners aren't competant technitions. | 22:19 |
| SpeedEvil | And in principle you can challenge it through the courts. | 22:19 |
| dmj7261 | some patents are the kind of thing a middle school kid will make in their first program | 22:19 |
| dmj7261 | in principle, not practice unless you're very rich | 22:19 |
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| dmj7261 | Perhaps 6 month software patents would be acceptable, given the amount of time required to approve a patent? | 22:20 |
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| lcuk | heh | 22:22 |
| lcuk | if a patent can be abused in less than 6 months, what was really novel about it? | 22:22 |
| dmj7261 | (It would be expired before the approval process was finished. | 22:23 |
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| crashanddie_ | dmj7261, most enterprise levels don't even finish one project in 6 months | 22:25 |
| dmj7261 | yeah, software patents bad, some degree of copyright good, since it's really good implementation that matters. | 22:27 |
| Ceron^ | http://translate.google.com/translate_t?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&text=download&sl=en&tl=pl&history_state0=&swap=1#en|pl|downloads%0A | 22:27 |
| Ceron^ | poland serious buisness | 22:27 |
| dmj7261 | anyway, I'm not passing judgement on Nokia here, just noting general brokenness of the patent system | 22:27 |
| dmj7261 | at Ceron^: lol! | 22:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | I found a couple of weeks ago a paper that was an a4 page of scribblings of mine from ~1995 that perfectly outline a later patent from 2002. | 22:29 |
| SpeedEvil | (a pistonless rocket propellant pump) | 22:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, I did not adequately fully describe it online | 22:29 |
| dmj7261 | hehe, prior art | 22:29 |
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| dmj7261 | that's happened to me too | 22:32 |
| dmj7261 | We're not lacking in ideas | 22:32 |
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| * SpeedEvil wonders what's happened to the educated non-manual-labourer population since patents started. | 22:39 | |
| SpeedEvil | *10000? | 22:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | I suppose the fields of applicability have exploded too though | 22:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Not many patents for CT scanners in 1850. | 22:40 |
| dmj7261 | also, remember that the patents may not have had a causal effect there | 22:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Yes - I was meaning that patents being reasonable to encourage the spread of innovation may not be so relevant if you ramp up the number of innovators. | 22:40 |
| dmj7261 | yeah | 22:41 |
| timeless | note to self: "Apply settings and restart?" | 22:42 |
| dmj7261 | and the fact that innovations these days are often so frequent and incremental that the monopoly one is granted may not be worth it when that means your work is based on work done by 10000 others | 22:42 |
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| epa_ | anyone come across with rootfs filling up and hence package removal/installation failing? | 22:43 |
| epa_ | --<spam>-- | 22:43 |
| epa_ | Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on | 22:43 |
| epa_ | rootfs 233104 233092 0 100% / | 22:43 |
| epa_ | ubi0:rootfs 233104 233092 0 100% / | 22:43 |
| epa_ | tmpfs 1024 124 900 12% /tmp | 22:43 |
| epa_ | tmpfs 256 80 176 31% /var/run | 22:43 |
| epa_ | none 10240 72 10168 1% /dev | 22:43 |
| epa_ | tmpfs 65536 4 65532 0% /dev/shm | 22:43 |
| epa_ | /dev/mmcblk0p2 2064208 150584 1808768 8% /home | 22:43 |
| epa_ | /dev/mmcblk0p1 28312128 885248 27426880 3% /home/user/MyDocs | 22:43 |
| epa_ | --</spam>-- | 22:43 |
| tigert | N900? | 22:43 |
| epa_ | it kind of looks funny that much of progs install under / | 22:43 |
| epa_ | jes | 22:43 |
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| tigert | internal R&D image? | 22:43 |
| epa_ | not RD | 22:43 |
| epa_ | it's the one Nokia supplied @conference | 22:44 |
| tigert | because that has syslogd = spewage | 22:44 |
| epa_ | no this is not that | 22:44 |
| SpeedEvil | dmj7261: Added to the stifling effect of not being able to develop stuff without infringing. | 22:44 |
| tigert | epa_: you installed lots of apps? | 22:44 |
| epa_ | tigert: yes | 22:44 |
| tigert | that did it | 22:45 |
| epa_ | and now I can't remove them :) | 22:45 |
| tigert | gah :) | 22:45 |
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| epa_ | tigert: yes, but it should not | 22:45 |
| lcuk | rm -r /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb | 22:45 |
| lcuk | first thing i do | 22:45 |
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| lcuk | dunno if theres an "offical way" | 22:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: apt-get clean | 22:45 |
| tigert | app manager does that for you though afaik | 22:45 |
| epa_ | lcuk: it will free only 600k | 22:45 |
| lcuk | isnt that enough to allow app manager to work | 22:45 |
| lcuk | to remove the rest | 22:46 |
| tigert | remove the preinstalled images and videos? | 22:46 |
| tigert | no wait | 22:46 |
| tigert | those are probably in MyDocs | 22:46 |
| * lcuk actually does | 22:46 | |
| epa_ | I'll remove 'bounce' :) | 22:46 |
| lcuk | rm -r /usr/share/nokia-maps | 22:46 |
| lcuk | rm -r /usr/share/themes/beta | 22:46 |
| lcuk | rm -r /usr/share/themes/delta | 22:46 |
| lcuk | rm -r /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb | 22:46 |
| lcuk | when setting up a new flash image | 22:46 |
| tigert | or | 22:46 |
| tigert | dont rm | 22:46 |
| tigert | mv them to ~MyDocs | 22:46 |
| tigert | and dpkg -r and then move back | 22:46 |
| qwerty12_N810 | epa_: Bounce installs to /opt | 22:46 |
| epa_ | qwerty12_N810: just noticed :) | 22:47 |
| epa_ | hmm | 22:47 |
| epa_ | maybe at somepoint they could make it so that apps install elsewhere than / | 22:47 |
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| epa_ | it is also kind of silly to make user MyDocs to be 28G | 22:48 |
| tigert | its for your data :) | 22:50 |
| tigert | but yeah, symlink /opt to Mydocs? :) | 22:50 |
| tigert | MyDocs/opt/ even | 22:50 |
| epa_ | tigert: won't solve the problem | 22:50 |
| epa_ | I would have to symlink /usr/share or something like that | 22:50 |
| lcuk | if you have /opt on the same partition you end up with data problems | 22:50 |
| tigert | but hey, do you really _need_ all that apps stuff? :) | 22:51 |
| lcuk | whats the fastest drive partition on the n900 | 22:52 |
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| lcuk | is it / or MyDocs or opt | 22:52 |
| lcuk | or could i install fremantle onto a faster dedicated 16gb memory card | 22:52 |
| lcuk | without opt | 22:52 |
| epa_ | tigert: no that is true | 22:53 |
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| epa_ | tigert: but I think machine ought to be 'protected' in a way average user would not be able to 'break' his device by installing too many apps | 22:53 |
| epa_ | tigert: I can fix it fairly easily by loggin in via ssh and using dpkg | 22:54 |
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| epa_ | tigert: I dare say noone else in my family would be able to do that | 22:54 |
| tigert | epa_: true | 22:55 |
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| tigert | file a bug? | 22:55 |
| epa_ | yep | 22:55 |
| vasily_pupkin | fsck. maemo is one big fscking bug | 22:55 |
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| Stskeeps | vasily_pupkin: nah, you're thinking of symbian | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:56 |
| epa_ | tigert: was just asking if it has come across anyones table yet and bugged it already | 22:56 |
| vasily_pupkin | we must drop it to the fire of hate | 22:56 |
| qwerty12_N810 | vasily_pupkin: Don't say that, you'll hurt its feelings! | 22:56 |
| vasily_pupkin | wpa/psk + changed mac == epic fail | 22:57 |
| vasily_pupkin | and now pidgin not working O_o | 22:57 |
| vasily_pupkin | i see many bugs and strange things | 22:57 |
| vasily_pupkin | but this... | 22:57 |
| vasily_pupkin | this is awesome | 22:57 |
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| mgedmin | so, turns out three different wlans on the same channel is not a good way to get working wifi | 22:59 |
| wazd_ | My sister just burned my Mini | 22:59 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Haha | 22:59 |
| qwerty12_N810 | (In Nelson Muntz style) | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: ow | 22:59 |
| lcuk | Mini what | 23:00 |
| wazd_ | can somebody just shoot me to stop all this? | 23:00 |
| qwerty12_N810 | HP | 23:00 |
| mgedmin | Mini Cooper? | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: my PSU blew up in smoke earlier :P | 23:00 |
| mgedmin | ah, this one's ought to be cheaper | 23:00 |
| lcuk | n97 mini | 23:00 |
| ifreq | apple mini | 23:00 |
| wazd_ | mgedmin: mini Airbus | 23:00 |
| lcuk | mini me | 23:00 |
| vasily_pupkin | anybody can tell me, how that *.launch crap works? | 23:00 |
| ifreq | lcuk: :D | 23:00 |
| vasily_pupkin | how can i debug it at least | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | go read the readme of maemo-launcher | 23:00 |
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| vasily_pupkin | ok | 23:00 |
| wazd_ | no, seriously, why I have to face all this | 23:01 |
| mgedmin | I want to report a bug on screen | 23:01 |
| mgedmin | the package says Maintainer: maemo integration <integration@maemo.org> | 23:01 |
| mgedmin | who's that? | 23:01 |
| ifreq | wazd_: have you killed a kitten lately? | 23:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, no idea, I've never gotten a reply. | 23:01 |
| lcuk | propbably the same person who would respond if you mailed | 23:01 |
| lcuk | anything@maemo.org | 23:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Send a flame e-mail there | 23:02 |
| wazd_ | ifreq: looks like I blew up some european country | 23:02 |
| mgedmin | ah, it's from the tools repository | 23:03 |
| mgedmin | so I can head over to bmo | 23:03 |
| absolute | Hey guys, quick fremantle/n900 question... my symbian e62 with pc suite produced a .nbu (nokia back up)... does the n900 read this same format? | 23:04 |
| absolute | ie. can i use my symbian backups to restore contacts to a maemo device? | 23:04 |
| qwerty12_N810 | absolute: N900 supports PC Suite... | 23:04 |
| absolute | excellent | 23:04 |
| absolute | ty | 23:04 |
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| wazd_ | no summit, can't buy n900 cause it's to expensive, can't accept money to buy n900 cause I can't accept money, can't accept the rebate cause rebated n900 can't be shipped to me, and now my damn laptop is gone | 23:05 |
| wazd_ | what the fuck | 23:05 |
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| vasily_zajcev | holy shit | 23:05 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: and the army ants you | 23:05 |
| vasily_zajcev | today is a day of bugs for me | 23:05 |
| lcuk | :( wazd_ | 23:06 |
| vasily_zajcev | now my main pc hangs | 23:06 |
| vasily_zajcev | crazy day | 23:06 |
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| vasvasily_zajcev | fsck | 23:06 |
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| vasvasily_zajcev | kick my hanged nick plz :] | 23:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | wazd_: may your luck greatly improve. | 23:07 |
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| mgedmin | there ought to be some nickserv command letting you kick your ghost yourself | 23:10 |
| mgedmin | try /msg nickserv help | 23:10 |
| Mousey | /msg nickserg ghost <password> | 23:10 |
| Dieterbe_ | anyone here with a n900? i attached it with usb to my pc as block device, and now i'm copying some music files to it with 'sudo cp -ax /path/to/music /n900mountpoint/.sounds', and now my mediaplayer tells me i have 0 songs, and filemanager says 'no files or folders' so it looks like permissions are incorrect now or something but i don't know how/why | 23:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Dieterbe_: Does File manager crash when you go to to the Sound clips folder? | 23:12 |
| microlith | hmm | 23:12 |
| microlith | that AlmostTI app is cool and all but isn't distributing the ROMs still a no-no even if they are ancient? | 23:12 |
| Dieterbe_ | qwerty12_N810: file manager says 'no files or folders' and i can't do anything else. media player says 'no songs' when i click on the songs icon | 23:12 |
| epa_ | Dieterbe_: what are the permissions that N900 sees? | 23:13 |
| epa_ | ctrl+shift+x -> terminal | 23:13 |
| epa_ | ls -l .sounds | 23:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Dieterbe_: I had something similar but I couldn't figure it out, so I just reflashed :/ | 23:13 |
| mgedmin | Dieterbe_: have you unmounted the device from your PC? and unplugged the cable? | 23:13 |
| microlith | why are they putting music in a hidden directory? | 23:14 |
| TomaszD | epa_ where can I get a list of those shortcuts? | 23:14 |
| mgedmin | only one computer can access a block device at one time: either the N900 or the PC | 23:14 |
| mgedmin | microlith: so they can translate the directory name into various languages | 23:14 |
| mgedmin | or some stupid reason like that | 23:14 |
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| mgedmin | TomaszD: the other one is ctrl+shift+p = screenshot | 23:14 |
| epa_ | TomaszD: http://www.maemo-guru.com/2009/10/nokia-n900-keyboard-shortcuts-galore/ | 23:14 |
| Dieterbe_ | mgedmin: no its still mounted. epa_ it says no such folder .sounds (in /home/user). i'll try to umount maybe this is some protective thing when you mount over usb | 23:14 |
| epa_ | TomaszD: or manual I guess | 23:15 |
| mgedmin | I don't think there are any more, except for ctrl+shift+backspace = task switcher | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | microlith, i18n | 23:15 |
| microlith | GeneralAntilles: ahh, ok | 23:15 |
| mgedmin | err, no shift in ctrl+backspace | 23:15 |
| TomaszD | mgedmin I know about this one :) | 23:15 |
| TomaszD | thanks | 23:15 |
| mgedmin | okay, and then in the browser there's ctrl+shift+i to enable reflowing text when you zoom in | 23:15 |
| mgedmin | nobody expects the spanish inquisition, sigh | 23:16 |
| epa_ | I think ctrl+shift+x was somethere in the forum | 23:16 |
| Dieterbe_ | great! unmounted, unplugged usb cable -> still no ~/.sounds, _but_ media player sees the songs (old+new) | 23:16 |
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| Dieterbe_ | thanks guys | 23:17 |
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| vasvasily_zajcev | anybody know, can i use newest maemo launcher? | 23:18 |
| vasvasily_zajcev | from freemantle for example? :] | 23:18 |
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| mgedmin | Dieterbe_: it's not ~/.sounds, it's ~/MyDocs/.sounds | 23:20 |
| Dieterbe_ | aha. yeah that works. i thought the entire /home/user would be exported over usb | 23:21 |
| mgedmin | there are probably reasons why it can't be | 23:22 |
| mgedmin | e.g. running programs reading and writing config files in hidden directories | 23:23 |
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| mgedmin | no clue, really, but wouldn't be surprised | 23:23 |
| Dieterbe_ | hm yeha | 23:23 |
| Dieterbe_ | yeah* | 23:23 |
| dmj7261 | liqbase is nifty | 23:23 |
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| mgedmin | what's this about the public release of the n900 being maybe postponed? | 23:23 |
| dmj7261 | til mid november | 23:24 |
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| mgedmin | no iptables until mid november! :( | 23:25 |
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| dmj7261 | It makes me sad too! | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | It makes... Me... ANGRY!!!! | 23:28 |
| * SpeedEvil bursts out of his shirt, and turns blue. | 23:28 | |
| * dmj7261 is impatient for this awesomeness | 23:28 | |
| SpeedEvil | (not green, to avoid trademark problems) | 23:28 |
| * dmj7261 bursts through roof in titanium alloy suit | 23:29 | |
| dmj7261 | (not iron to avoid trademark infringement) | 23:30 |
| * javispedro says "meh". | 23:30 | |
| dmj7261 | Yeah, my phone has a broken mic | 23:30 |
| * mgedmin muahahahas and strokes the white Persian cat | 23:30 | |
| * dmj7261 will debug for n900 | 23:31 | |
| * mgedmin will pay money for n900 | 23:31 | |
| dmj7261 | (if delivered promptly) :P | 23:31 |
| w00t | I want an n900, because I'm sick of emulating the device to try match the UI | 23:32 |
| * w00t nods | 23:32 | |
| w00t | then again, I'm just going to steal it anyway | 23:32 |
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| * mgedmin wonders when the n900 will show up on woot.com | 23:32 | |
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| dmj7261 | phone's with broken mics are annoying, particularly when the headset cord flakes out | 23:32 |
| clmntch | hrm | 23:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | bluetooth! | 23:33 |
| dmj7261 | not on an old flip phone like mine! | 23:33 |
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| lcuk | dmj7261, liqbase is nifty indeed | 23:33 |
| dmj7261 | I am very much looking forward to it | 23:34 |
| dmj7261 | ...will it function like a single application window on the n900 or a collection of them> | 23:34 |
| dmj7261 | ? | 23:34 |
| lcuk | its just something a bit different | 23:34 |
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| lcuk | well the apps can run on their own | 23:35 |
| dmj7261 | or is it more an alternative to the qt/gtk libraries? | 23:35 |
| lcuk | but until i solve a big bug they wont work in the compositor thingy switchboard | 23:35 |
| dmj7261 | with those demos made in it? | 23:35 |
| javispedro | what bug, lcuk? | 23:35 |
| lcuk | gahhh why does tmo centre the text on single posts | 23:36 |
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| lcuk | when its composited it doesnt zoom | 23:36 |
| javispedro | uh | 23:36 |
| lcuk | i have to do an x11 "coverscreen" | 23:36 |
| lcuk | and show a screenshot of liqbase | 23:37 |
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| lcuk | and turn off the overlay | 23:37 |
| lcuk | so other apps can then use it | 23:37 |
| mgedmin | are you drawing to the raw framebuffer, or still using xv? | 23:37 |
| mgedmin | xv then | 23:37 |
| lcuk | still in xv | 23:37 |
| mgedmin | can the compositor compositate apps that use egl? | 23:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: You should show one of those TV things, "We are currently experiencing difficulties. We will be back shortly" | 23:38 |
| lcuk | yeah | 23:38 |
| lcuk | lol qwerty12_N810 :D | 23:38 |
| lcuk | yeah mgedmin | 23:38 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: bounce. | 23:38 |
| mgedmin | d'oh | 23:38 |
| * vasvasily_zajcev reloads maemo-launcher with truck+original one | 23:38 | |
| * mgedmin apt-get installs ioquake3 | 23:39 | |
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| * lcuk is excluded from compositing party | 23:39 | |
| * dmj7261 originally read liqbase as libqbase | 23:39 | |
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| lcuk | http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg18548.html | 23:40 |
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| javispedro | lcuk: actually, I though that would be true too. | 23:40 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, if i wasnt using the compositor, i wouldnt be able to run it as smoothly as i still can on n8x0 | 23:40 |
| javispedro | on my system mplayer's xv is redirected. | 23:40 |
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| lcuk | are you sure its running through xv codepath tho | 23:41 |
| lcuk | mplayer has many backends | 23:41 |
| javispedro | well, mplayer itself says so. | 23:41 |
| lcuk | (which might be an idea to peek into one day ;) | 23:41 |
| mgedmin | modern video drivers implement xv on top of the 3d engine instead of using the overlay | 23:41 |
| mgedmin | modern graphics chips don't have an overlay | 23:42 |
| vasily_pupkin | javispedro: hi :] | 23:42 |
| javispedro | vasily_pupkin: hi! how did wpa stuff go? | 23:42 |
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| vasily_pupkin | javispedro: i have problems with configuring icd2 module | 23:42 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, rly? | 23:43 |
| vasily_pupkin | i try to setup wpa+psk :) | 23:43 |
| lcuk | the drivers might bypass it | 23:43 |
| * mgedmin lurks on xorg@ | 23:43 | |
| lcuk | but i think theres still hardware support | 23:43 |
| mgedmin | intel 965 and newer lack a hardware overlay | 23:43 |
| lcuk | ooh cool | 23:43 |
| vasily_pupkin | javispedro: i add point with wlancond, then change it's name and type to WLAN_WPA | 23:43 |
| javispedro | i've been trying drnoksnes to opengl texture on my desktop and it's faster than xshm. still didn't try xv. | 23:43 |
| vasily_pupkin | and add keys from wpa_supplicant.conf as wpa_keyname_blabla="foobar" | 23:44 |
| vasily_pupkin | at search point with this new name wasn't in list | 23:44 |
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| javispedro | vasily_pupkin: it's hidden ssid? | 23:44 |
| vasily_pupkin | no | 23:44 |
| vasily_pupkin | it's real essid was in list | 23:44 |
| vasily_pupkin | but not my configured name | 23:44 |
| vasily_pupkin | i.e. icd2 couldn't find settings | 23:45 |
| javispedro | vasily_pupkin: can you launch icd2 from command line? it will print libicd-wpa debug output. | 23:45 |
| vasily_pupkin | moment | 23:45 |
| javispedro | vasily_pupkin: if it loads the network from gconf, it should appear on "Control panel -> connectivity -> connections"with an adhoc wi-fi icon | 23:46 |
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| vasily_pupkin | hm | 23:46 |
| vasily_pupkin | in connection settings it have ad-hoc icon | 23:46 |
| vasily_pupkin | but in search dialog it not aviable | 23:47 |
| javispedro | ok, then go for the debug output. | 23:47 |
| javispedro | /etc/init.d/icd2 stop && /usr/sbin/icd2 -l0 | 23:48 |
| vasily_pupkin | i change some settings for my neighbour point :) | 23:48 |
| vasily_pupkin | moment | 23:48 |
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| vasily_pupkin | hm | 23:50 |
| vasily_pupkin | i get debug | 23:50 |
| vasily_pupkin | i have lines such as | 23:50 |
| vasily_pupkin | Test if /system/osso/..../.... is active | 23:51 |
| vasily_pupkin | wlan_scan: default (active) | 23:51 |
| vasily_pupkin | moment, i join to irc from tables | 23:51 |
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| vasily_zajcev | javispedro: http://pastebin.org/47239 | 23:55 |
| javispedro | hum. weird race condition. | 23:57 |
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| javispedro | my guess is that libicd-network-wlan initiated just takes too long since you have a lot of IAPs | 23:59 |
| mgedmin | gotta love tmo thread titles: "USB for charging and data connection: a threat?" | 23:59 |
| vasily_pupkin | (% | 23:59 |
| javispedro | s/initiated/initiated scan | 23:59 |
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