| javispedro | then edit network.xml to suit your needs, and import it too. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| javispedro | there's no gui to edit. | 00:00 |
| javispedro | that's something I am considering. | 00:00 |
| lcuk | Macer, biggest desire for liqbase at the moment is rotated blit support - which the pvr might handle, but it comes at the same cost, im yuv | 00:00 |
| javispedro | since I believe it's possible. | 00:00 |
| lcuk | and pvr is natively rgb | 00:00 |
| * lcuk wants to find the time to dig out an old school 8bit vga blit rotation algo | 00:01 | |
| vasily_pupkin | hm | 00:01 |
| vasily_pupkin | what tool imports gconfentry? | 00:01 |
| javispedro | vasily_pupkin: gconftool --load | 00:02 |
| vasily_pupkin | thanks | 00:02 |
| Macer | why not mod the liq src to make it native rgb? | 00:02 |
| vasily_pupkin | eh. i need more, more points!11 (% | 00:02 |
| lcuk | cos then it wouldnt run as fast | 00:02 |
| lcuk | here macer | 00:02 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo | 00:02 |
| lcuk | full overview of why and where im upto and what i want to do | 00:03 |
| lcuk | sorry about wobbly camera | 00:03 |
| Macer | touchbook doesn't do flash :( | 00:03 |
| lcuk | touchbook fails | 00:03 |
| lcuk | get a real machine | 00:03 |
| Macer | at least not that i know of.. i haven't really tried to figure it out yet | 00:03 |
| Macer | lol | 00:03 |
| Macer | it would be a real machine if the os didn't totally suck | 00:03 |
| lcuk | i thought it was this super machine? | 00:03 |
| Macer | it is an n900 with a 9" screen and no 3G modem :) | 00:04 |
| Macer | super is an exageration | 00:04 |
| javispedro | it has pvr too? | 00:04 |
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| Macer | opengles 2.0 suupport | 00:04 |
| zerojay | In otherwords... nothing too special then. | 00:04 |
| Macer | not really | 00:04 |
| Macer | just an arm netbook | 00:04 |
| Macer | with a touch screen that detatches to look like a smartq | 00:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Meiz's video of it showing how easily it tips was funny | 00:05 |
| zerojay | I don't think I'll ever get another device that won't have a modem/radio of some sort ever again. | 00:05 |
| Macer | it sure does :) | 00:05 |
| Macer | zerojay: might be able to install one in its internal usb ports | 00:05 |
| Macer | it tips bad | 00:06 |
| lcuk | Macer, which os is it | 00:06 |
| Macer | they are sending everybody these plastic tab things | 00:06 |
| lcuk | and does it have xv? | 00:06 |
| Macer | lcuk: modded angstrom | 00:06 |
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| Dantonic | hi | 00:06 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: look at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32997 | 00:06 |
| Macer | honestly not sure.. i would say yes but am not positive | 00:06 |
| Dantonic | Hey can you guys suggest a good flowcharting program? | 00:06 |
| Dantonic | desktop linux prog | 00:06 |
| Dantonic | I mean | 00:06 |
| Dantonic | :P | 00:06 |
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| javispedro | I like the concept of flipping the phone to silence a call. | 00:10 |
| javispedro | it's something I could remember to do if I want to shup the fscking ring. | 00:10 |
| javispedro | in a hurry. | 00:10 |
| javispedro | s/shup/shut up (i like to invent verbs it seems) | 00:10 |
| Macer | until you have it in a bag jumping around and miss a booty call | 00:10 |
| javispedro | you hav ea $600 phone in a bag jumping around? I don't | 00:11 |
| lcuk | javispedro, i wont put the device down on the desk face down | 00:11 |
| lcuk | o_O wouldnt want to scratch it accidentally | 00:11 |
| Macer | javispedro: in its own pocket in a titanium case :) | 00:11 |
| javispedro | but still jumping around .... ;P | 00:11 |
| ShadowJK | heh, my E75 had silence with flip until latest OTA update | 00:12 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK : LOL. | 00:12 |
| javispedro | enuff said. | 00:12 |
| ShadowJK | I lost that feature and gained working camera instead :) | 00:12 |
| lardman | night all | 00:14 |
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| javispedro | gnite lardman | 00:14 |
| aSIMULAtur | i have no problems putting my device face down on a table :P | 00:14 |
| aSIMULAtur | especially when i'm in a meeting, and i happen to receive a call from jaakko | 00:15 |
| javispedro | me neither. | 00:15 |
| javispedro | lol | 00:15 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Slamming it down would be more stress relieving :) | 00:15 |
| aSIMULAtur | or throwing it across the room | 00:16 |
| timeless_mbp | hi qwerty12_N810 | 00:16 |
| timeless_mbp | did you look into window parenting? | 00:16 |
| javispedro | I've seen nearly two times a phone ringing, with the owner unable to stop it. | 00:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: Not today | 00:16 |
| javispedro | due to gettings on his nerves/stress/whatever | 00:16 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAtor: fwiw, the fact that the second call rings while the phone is face down sucks :) | 00:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | aSIMULAtor: ...or throwing it on the person who's calling you :p | 00:16 |
| aSIMULAtur | yeah true, timeless | 00:17 |
| absolute | yeah, but what other option is there? you don't want calls to be silent in your pocket if the phone happens to be angled that direction | 00:17 |
| timeless_mbp | absolute: um | 00:17 |
| timeless_mbp | very simple | 00:17 |
| timeless_mbp | the phone knows its orientation | 00:18 |
| aSIMULAtur | to press on the "silent" button | 00:18 |
| timeless_mbp | and only goes into silent mode if you receive a call and flip it over | 00:18 |
| aSIMULAtur | oh nm i read your question wrong | 00:18 |
| timeless_mbp | it should leave that mode if you flip the phone up again | 00:18 |
| lcuk | shake to cancel call would be good | 00:18 |
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| lcuk | "arghhhhhhhhh" | 00:18 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: so if it rings while you're jogging, you miss the call? | 00:18 |
| absolute | fair enough | 00:18 |
| javispedro | actually, "shake" to escape was not a bad idea either. | 00:18 |
| lcuk | timeless, hell yeah | 00:18 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 00:18 |
| crashanddie | the "Nokia Tune" is the most played piece of music in the world | 00:18 |
| lcuk | you are running i wouldnt want to hear you panting | 00:19 |
| crashanddie | played over 1.8 Billion times per day | 00:19 |
| lcuk | ms windows startup tune | 00:19 |
| crashanddie | nope | 00:19 |
| aSIMULAtur | probably that 1 billion times it's being played is at nrc | 00:19 |
| crashanddie | would appear nokias require more reboots than windows | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: unless you only count shkin as an increase in shake | 00:19 |
| aSIMULAtur | everytime i hear that ringtone.......... | 00:19 |
| timeless_mbp | why are you awake btw? | 00:20 |
| javispedro | I think the most played tune is the old GameBoy blink startup tune. | 00:20 |
| aSIMULAtur | why are YOU awake :P | 00:20 |
| aSIMULAtur | i was just about to go to sleep and say "good nite" | 00:20 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm hacking :) | 00:20 |
| javispedro | well, no, maybe no. | 00:20 |
| lcuk | damn nokia startup tune woke her | 00:20 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 00:20 |
| * qwerty12_N810 's wondering how he has his N900 in Spanish and is still able to use it. Maemo rocks. | 00:20 | |
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| lcuk | aSIMULAtor, timeless have you seen the maemo.org startup doofer? | 00:21 |
| aSIMULAtur | porque tu entiendes espanol | 00:21 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: seen, yes, where's my package? | 00:21 |
| javispedro | será porque él entiende español. | 00:21 |
| javispedro | >:) | 00:21 |
| lcuk | your package? | 00:22 |
| aSIMULAtur | forgive minun espanol kasi hindi ko alam ng spanish mabuti | 00:22 |
| aSIMULAtur | there u go | 00:22 |
| lcuk | i didnt do the startup thingy | 00:22 |
| aSIMULAtur | i just mixed up 4 languages | 00:22 |
| aSIMULAtur | that means | 00:22 |
| aSIMULAtur | time to sleep :D | 00:22 |
| aSIMULAtur | nite | 00:22 |
| lcuk | gnite | 00:22 |
| javispedro | hehe, bye aSIMULAtor . | 00:22 |
| qwerty12_N810 | 'night | 00:22 |
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| lcuk | for those that havent, a replacement for the nokia startup http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32935 | 00:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | We need Benson to do a replacement | 00:24 |
| javispedro | I liked GAN's one. | 00:24 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Does hildon-welcome have a maximum limit on the time? | 00:25 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I could imagine someone putting a movie in that folder as a prank... | 00:25 |
| javispedro | proper question would be: is hildon-welcome OSS? | 00:25 |
| qwerty12_N810 | it is | 00:25 |
| qwerty12_N810 | It's in stage | 00:25 |
| javispedro | community 3-hour intro video SSU!! | 00:25 |
| qwerty12_N810 | In all languages! | 00:26 |
| javispedro | Slow Maemopard! | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: To quote Linus, it needs the penguin to come on at 100MPH, packed to the gills with herring. | 00:26 |
| javispedro | er.. it's Snow, come to think of it. | 00:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I'll update rootsh to rm -rf /home/user | 00:26 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: just to check, have you sent anything? :) | 00:27 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: I sent a link via /msg, didn't you recieve it?! lemme e-mail it | 00:27 |
| javispedro | wazd's client does not seem to get /msg 's, it took me a while to realize it wasn't him being evil and ignoring my PMs ;) | 00:28 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: I have a strange /msg system :) | 00:28 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: it doesnt' work until I add you to my CL | 00:28 |
| * qwerty12_N810 adds Miranda IM to his list of things to never touch | 00:28 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | Odd :) | 00:29 |
| wazd | lcuk: better remove bling-bling and all logos | 00:29 |
| wazd | lcuk: ah, I suppose you're not the author :) | 00:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: yeah, well, has anyone packaged it? | 00:30 |
| lcuk | nahh wazd | 00:30 |
| timeless_mbp | oh wow, i haven't seen those | 00:30 |
| lcuk | but why remove the logos - they actually show that the entire device is a collaboration | 00:30 |
| timeless_mbp | i saw the first thing | 00:30 |
| lcuk | timeless, i think people are discussing more the creation of a CPL to manage these | 00:31 |
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| lcuk | rather than a package for a single one | 00:31 |
| timeless_mbp | man, that splash is awesome | 00:31 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, i could arrange for a cpl | 00:31 |
| timeless_mbp | if someone builds my thing | 00:32 |
| lcuk | whats "your thing" | 00:32 |
| wazd | lcuk: cause they can be trademarks :) | 00:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd need a cpl host which ran my script :) | 00:32 |
| lcuk | wazd - yeah and those components are on the device itself | 00:33 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/intro/ | 00:33 |
| lcuk | look there | 00:34 |
| lcuk | same logos | 00:34 |
| lcuk | i think | 00:34 |
| wazd | lcuk: well, the device is made by nokia, but Quim asked to remove nokia logo | 00:34 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: you can now send me link via msg btw :) | 00:35 |
| lcuk | good point | 00:35 |
| lcuk | make it in the thread | 00:35 |
| lcuk | and ask quim | 00:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: I've e-mailed it, but sure :p | 00:36 |
| lcuk | tho those components are part of maemo.org | 00:36 |
| lcuk | which isnt quite the same as nokia | 00:36 |
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| javispedro | *sigh* nokia.es just added another 1GiB of RAM N900 ad. | 00:37 |
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| ShadowJK | lol | 00:38 |
| vasily_pupkin | usb host on n900 - dead? | 00:38 |
| javispedro | btw, there's kinda on "official" ugly maemo logo: http://c5.img.digitalriver.com/gtimages/store-mc-uri/nokia/assets/local/es-ES/large_images/10195587.jpg look at the lower left corner. | 00:39 |
| javispedro | lol, they're now using a broken n900 as artwork for the warranty & servicing page. | 00:40 |
| wazd | javispedro: that's not logo | 00:46 |
| wazd | javispedro: that's kinda violet rectangle and a label :) | 00:46 |
| wazd | javispedro: or blue :) | 00:47 |
| javispedro | you have quite an artistical definition for a logo, I've seen worse ones ;) | 00:47 |
| lcuk | thats more a logo than some companies use | 00:48 |
| Milo- | free bluetooth O_O | 00:49 |
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| javispedro | well, at that price, they might as well give you a free firstborn offer. | 00:50 |
| lcuk | A version used on the CBeebies channel was altered so rather than "couldn't put Humpty together again" all the King's horses "made Humpty happy again". | 00:50 |
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| lcuk | scrambled eggs! | 00:51 |
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| javispedro | qwerty12_N810: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=350644&postcount=20 | 00:52 |
| Corsac | lcuk: over easy! | 00:52 |
| javispedro | only pois? horrible | 00:53 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: I claim fake! | 00:53 |
| * javispedro clicks thanks button | 00:53 | |
| vasily_pupkin | Oh looool | 00:53 |
| vasily_pupkin | AGPS again | 00:53 |
| vasily_pupkin | bu-ha-ha-ha | 00:53 |
| javispedro | yeah, I see the GPS fix performance sucks as usual... | 00:54 |
| lcuk | every time you use agps god saves a kitten | 00:54 |
| lcuk | or was that shaves | 00:54 |
| Milo- | better stop using agps then | 00:54 |
| * javispedro vomits | 00:54 | |
| lcuk | ok, is it maps that expects the gps to use network | 00:54 |
| lcuk | or the low level gps itself | 00:54 |
| javispedro | hopefully not. maps with network only is useless. | 00:55 |
| * javispedro wonders how a guy inside his basement can create a better maps application than nokia. | 00:55 | |
| Milo- | easily | 00:55 |
| vasily_pupkin | heh. again no maps for my poor country | 00:55 |
| vasily_pupkin | or may be that navigator supports locked garmin? :] | 00:56 |
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| Milo- | a guy who hasn't seen the world, has more optimistic idea of world than nokia, that has seen the world | 00:56 |
| lcuk | ok, maps comes from a source somwhere else doesnt it | 00:56 |
| lcuk | ie isnt it the s60 version | 00:56 |
| lcuk | just with restrictions | 00:56 |
| javispedro | nokia+navtech, or did they buy the other one? i don't remember | 00:57 |
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| * javispedro votes for "slow gps performance" bug version 2 | 00:58 | |
| ShadowJK | it's pointless | 00:59 |
| andre__ | vasily_pupkin, which country? | 00:59 |
| vasily_pupkin | ukraine :) | 00:59 |
| andre__ | javispedro, oh yeah :) | 00:59 |
| vasily_pupkin | i just can't understand, why not normal surf? how many TI payed to nokia to use that crap? | 01:00 |
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| andre__ | javispedro, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5336 ? | 01:01 |
| andre__ | or the performance in general? | 01:01 |
| * javispedro thanks andre__ and votes for that too. | 01:01 | |
| javispedro | but I mean https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 | 01:01 |
| andre__ | ahem, right | 01:02 |
| javispedro | :) | 01:02 |
| andre__ | that's what i had in mind. too late here | 01:02 |
| andre__ | and i probably shouldn't work on sundays anyway :-P | 01:02 |
| javispedro | specially sundays at noon. | 01:02 |
| javispedro | but I'm doing it too, damn. | 01:02 |
| andre__ | well, trying to get ubuntu on the third machine. but fails :-P | 01:03 |
| ShadowJK | that time to lock without agps sounds similar to my Nokia E75 :-) | 01:03 |
| javispedro | and my N810. | 01:03 |
| javispedro | *sigh* | 01:03 |
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| ShadowJK | With AGPS, my N810 is more reliable than my E75 though. Software is kinda flaky on E75 | 01:04 |
| * BBNS_ back from sleep ... | 01:04 | |
| lcuk | short sleep | 01:05 |
| vasily_pupkin | ShadowJK: but without - n810 is a brick | 01:05 |
| BBNS_ | yeah ... it's a nap. noon here | 01:05 |
| ShadowJK | vasily_pupkin, nah :-) | 01:05 |
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| vasily_pupkin | and another thing that make me angry | 01:05 |
| * BBNS_ trying to install qt4.6 and qt-creator 1.3 on my mac ... | 01:06 | |
| vasily_pupkin | sattelites use ordinary orbits | 01:06 |
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| vasily_pupkin | why this fscked software couldn't calculate AGPS data, when no connection aviable? :] | 01:07 |
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| lcuk | i never installed agps | 01:07 |
| lcuk | on 810 | 01:07 |
| lcuk | and in the car it works fine | 01:07 |
| lcuk | as long as i reboot before using | 01:07 |
| vasily_pupkin | ps aux | grep supl | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | ps aux | grep gpsdriver | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | it tends to die | 01:08 |
| * lcuk goes and tries to sort out packaging | 01:09 | |
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| lcuk | javispedro, the triangle you created | 01:25 |
| lcuk | would it take much for me to texturize that | 01:26 |
| javispedro | yeah, I couldn't get the png texture loader to work | 01:26 |
| javispedro | probably my own incompetence :) | 01:26 |
| * qwerty12_N810 's N900 refuses to get out of Spanish :) | 01:26 | |
| Ceron^ | muchos grande | 01:27 |
| Ceron^ | seniorita! | 01:27 |
| javispedro | noooooooooooooooooooooooooo | 01:27 |
| lcuk | Ceron^, did you just call qwerty a big girl? | 01:28 |
| lcuk | if so, cool | 01:28 |
| Ceron^ | what else could it be? :D | 01:28 |
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| Ceron^ | my spanish aint that good.. | 01:29 |
| lcuk | well. qwertys will be much better after today | 01:29 |
| Ceron^ | lcuk: so got any new cool app on the n900? | 01:29 |
| lcuk | "inserto el transmissiono and downloado torrento! | 01:29 |
| lcuk | Ceron^, i always have cool apps | 01:30 |
| lcuk | shame i cant get them off my n900 | 01:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Best part is: I don't understand the error :) | 01:30 |
| Ceron^ | other than the liquidbase | 01:30 |
| Ceron^ | D: | 01:30 |
| lcuk | i fail so hard at linux | 01:30 |
| Ceron^ | i still dont understand the purpouse of the liquidbase | 01:30 |
| javispedro | would you please stop speaking spanish. it reminds me how awful my english must sound. and no, just don't say it does not sound bad and wait until I make the first glaring error, which could even be in this sentence! | 01:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah, there we go | 01:30 |
| lcuk | Ceron^, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0 | 01:30 |
| lcuk | javispedro, it does not enter my head that you are not english | 01:31 |
| lcuk | my northern is much worse | 01:31 |
| * qwerty12_N810 can't even speak his mother tongue | 01:31 | |
| Ceron^ | lcuk: so made so that you can stomp and laugh? | 01:31 |
| Ceron^ | :D | 01:31 |
| Ceron^ | so its* | 01:31 |
| lcuk | yeah | 01:32 |
| lcuk | and reflow the contents | 01:32 |
| javispedro | heh. | 01:32 |
| javispedro | lcuk: I smell the app counting "head banging" damages... $: | 01:32 |
| javispedro | err... $) | 01:32 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo#t=5m20s | 01:32 |
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| javispedro | you're right, liqflow is really faster in n900. | 01:33 |
| lcuk | yeah | 01:33 |
| lcuk | i keep pondering how to make it much much faster still | 01:34 |
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| lcuk | its one of the only things that uses fp | 01:34 |
| javispedro | not easy. | 01:34 |
| lcuk | so it only has about 200 particles | 01:34 |
| javispedro | well, fp => try nenon. | 01:34 |
| javispedro | er.. neon. | 01:34 |
| Ceron^ | lcuk: that app is made for some rave party | 01:34 |
| * lcuk nods | 01:34 | |
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| Ceron^ | go with the flow | 01:34 |
| lcuk | i just use c stuffs | 01:34 |
| javispedro | you can set your compiler to emit neon instructions | 01:34 |
| lcuk | Ceron^, i really wanted to get it working at the summit | 01:34 |
| javispedro | but you have to use floats only. | 01:34 |
| lcuk | but apparantly getting dynamic location is a hard technical problem | 01:35 |
| lcuk | dynamic physical location i mean | 01:35 |
| lcuk | placing a group of them together and having them collaborate on the flow | 01:35 |
| lcuk | its solvable tho | 01:35 |
| lcuk | at the summit i spoke with a load of people about different implementations | 01:36 |
| lcuk | Ceron^, you arent wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyMRTNPCVQM | 01:36 |
| lcuk | thats projected | 01:36 |
| wazd | lcuk: show him torch! | 01:36 |
| lcuk | thats on the same video! | 01:36 |
| wazd | lcuk: torch totally kicks :D | 01:37 |
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| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo#t=5m03s | 01:37 |
| lcuk | there you go! | 01:37 |
| javispedro | torch will be the KILLER app | 01:37 |
| lcuk | just for you | 01:37 |
| lcuk | wazd, the best thing about this video isnt the normal apps | 01:37 |
| lcuk | its the fact im doing a multipage presentation with swish effects and live widgets | 01:37 |
| wazd | for those who like spanish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngRq82c8Baw | 01:37 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Oh God, that's not me | 01:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I had a nightmare getting out of it | 01:38 |
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| wazd | qwerty12_N810: in fact it's funny to watch :D | 01:38 |
| Ceron^ | lcuk: :) | 01:39 |
| javispedro | it's once, stupid. | 01:39 |
| javispedro | </evil> | 01:39 |
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| lcuk | wazd - each page on the presentation can be anything and can include full page kinetics and stuff directly, because im not using the whole surface to do gestures, i can do scrolling and panning on the main widgets | 01:40 |
| lcuk | like if i added an rss feed widget | 01:40 |
| lcuk | or somesuch | 01:40 |
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| javispedro | well, gnite folks. | 01:41 |
| lcuk | gnite javis | 01:41 |
| * javispedro patiently waits for vista vm to shut down | 01:41 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | 'night | 01:41 |
| wazd | javispedro: nini | 01:41 |
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| Andril | qwerty12_N810: a n810 user has arrived | 01:49 |
| *** SpeedEvil1 is now known as SpeedEvil | 01:49 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | Yes, I am on an N810 :-) | 01:50 |
| wazd | Just read "Nokia n900 alternative boob video" | 01:50 |
| Andril | what os are u running? | 01:50 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Diablo | 01:50 |
| Ppupnik | hahaha | 01:50 |
| Ppupnik | ~lart n810 user | 01:51 |
| * infobot beats n810 user senseless with a 50lb Unix manual | 01:51 | |
| Ppupnik | same here | 01:51 |
| Andril | same here - just parying for a decent Android port to unlock it's potential | 01:51 |
| Ppupnik | hah | 01:51 |
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| * lcuk needs to sort out packaging once again | 01:52 | |
| lcuk | but at a different level | 01:52 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, did you ping qole abotu a chroot | 01:52 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I heard they use RPM on Mars... | 01:52 |
| lcuk | if we could do our own packaging | 01:53 |
| lcuk | i would use source only | 01:53 |
| lcuk | and have all the code on a wiki | 01:53 |
| lcuk | either that or just make the html parser better | 01:53 |
| lcuk | since the presentation shows quite nicely about dynamic loading and display from vb source files | 01:54 |
| * lcuk wonders whether anyone knows of a good html parser | 01:54 | |
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| SpeedEvil | lynx | 01:55 |
| * lcuk pokes Pavlov | 01:55 | |
| Robot101 | lcuk: in python, beautiful soup | 01:57 |
| Robot101 | lcuk: http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/ | 01:57 |
| lcuk | but python is ummmm against practically every ideal i hold dear | 01:57 |
| Robot101 | screen scraping HTML is OK though? :P | 01:57 |
| lcuk | no | 01:58 |
| lcuk | i wrote a c html parser | 01:58 |
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| Robot101 | so did I once, but I got better... :D | 01:58 |
| lcuk | the problem is that it only reads my html properly lol | 01:58 |
| Robot101 | libxml is good for C + glib, http://xmlsoft.org/ | 01:59 |
| lcuk | Robot101, this is a presentation in liqbase. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEZxWjVvGo its not hard coded anywhere and just loads the presentation and instentiates the dynamic widgets as required | 01:59 |
| lcuk | so theres a full complete set of live widgets on different pages | 02:00 |
| guysoft42 | hey, does anyone here have a debian folder to package .ko files i compiled? | 02:00 |
| GAN900 | andre__, ping? | 02:01 |
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| Robot101 | guysoft42: debian packaging doesn't work like that - your package build system is meant to compile the stuff too | 02:01 |
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| lcuk | thanks for libxml | 02:02 |
| lcuk | rob-bo, ^ | 02:02 |
| lcuk | Robot101 even | 02:02 |
| Robot101 | lcuk: no worries | 02:02 |
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| * timeless_mbp finishes writing a debugging tool | 02:03 | |
| GAN900 | Holy shit | 02:03 |
| GAN900 | You can't use the FM transmitter while charging?! | 02:04 |
| timeless_mbp | um | 02:04 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 02:04 | |
| GAN900 | Awesome, it also wont let you use the fm transmitter after charging either. | 02:04 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 02:05 |
| luke-jr | fail | 02:05 |
| luke-jr | hopefully just software issue | 02:05 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: what do you mean? | 02:05 |
| lcuk | so no in car charging.. | 02:05 |
| lcuk | ? | 02:05 |
| timeless_mbp | there's no ui string for this | 02:05 |
| Macer | omg.. there is no way in hell that person in the first van he hit survivied | 02:05 |
| timeless_mbp | does it just not work? | 02:05 |
| Macer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQcj3Y4IDoo&feature=related | 02:05 |
| lcuk | surely that sounds like a bug | 02:05 |
| luke-jr | Macer: so what? shush | 02:05 |
| luke-jr | Macer: people die in car accidents every day | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I suspect it's a regulatory issue. | 02:06 |
| Macer | but ouch | 02:06 |
| Macer | could you imagine that person | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | If a lead is plugged in, that will tend to act like an antenna | 02:06 |
| Macer | right when they got hit? | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | increasing the power. | 02:06 |
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| GAN900 | Can't use fm transmitter while usb is connected. Unplug usb to continue using fm transmitter. | 02:07 |
| luke-jr | GAN900: is that data-USB or charge-USB? | 02:08 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, it's throwing that Hildon note at me twice whenever I tap broadcast | 02:08 |
| GAN900 | luke-jr, iGo MicroUSB tip. | 02:08 |
| GAN900 | So, charge. | 02:08 |
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| guysoft42 | ok, you got to see what i am uploading to youtube now :) | 02:08 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, it also basically makes having the damn thing pointless. | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN900: well - yes. Somewhat. | 02:09 |
| GAN900 | another slow clap for the FCC | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN900: I suspect it's an issue that wasn't thought about before regulatory testing, at which point they realised 'ooops - we can't step back the FM transmitter power when plugged in'. | 02:10 |
| lcuk | maybe its just a bug | 02:10 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, clearly not. | 02:11 |
| GAN900 | There's a giant string for it. | 02:11 |
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| Robot101 | it takes hours of pain in meetings and vast amounts of paperwork and management chain per string | 02:11 |
| Robot101 | its no accident :P | 02:11 |
| GAN900 | Rank stupidity. | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Wires that are plugged in - that are not intentionally decoupled - the 3.5mm socket will be in order to recieve FM - will tend to act as antennas. So ... :/ | 02:12 |
| Robot101 | unfortunately none of that focuses around whether the string is a good idea :) | 02:12 |
| lcuk | 3.5mm headphones as antenna i can see | 02:12 |
| timeless_mbp | what's the note say? | 02:12 |
| lcuk | but powered usb not normally? | 02:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | And if they hit regulatory limits with stuff plugged in - they have to turn it off | 02:12 |
| GAN900 | Can't use fm transmitter while usb is connected. Unplug usb to continue using fm transmitter. | 02:12 |
| guysoft42 | Nokia N810 controlling a LED matrix with a Bumble-b: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWiJSOuIl5E | 02:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: no - 3.5mm is _not_ an antenna for the transmitter probably - due to the design that's used to recieve FM | 02:13 |
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| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, hey, see why i needed to compile the kernel!: Nokia N810 controlling a LED matrix with a Bumble-b | 02:13 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, ops here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWiJSOuIl5E | 02:13 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, its used as an antenna | 02:13 |
| lcuk | you dont usually find it using power is what i meant | 02:13 |
| SpeedEvil | (or if it is, it's an antenna that's only in compliance when nothing else is plugged in) | 02:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | guysoft42: lemme just load it up... | 02:14 |
| * GAN900 sighs. | 02:15 | |
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| SpeedEvil | It'll be fixed in the n942 :) | 02:15 |
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| GAN900 | timeless_mnp, should I file that text rendering bug in bugs.maemo.org? | 02:16 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, what do you think? :) | 02:16 |
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| GAN900 | It's to the point where I can't even read zoomed text. | 02:16 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: we should have a public bug for it | 02:16 |
| GAN900 | Which makes the whole zoom feature only useful for fitting images. . . . | 02:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | guysoft42: Still loading it up on the N900; N810 and YT don't go :) | 02:16 |
| timeless_mbp | but i really don't know what's causing it, and i doubt we'll manage to do something about it | 02:16 |
| lcuk | GAN900, can i ask - what do you like about the device :$ | 02:16 |
| lcuk | you have been a bit of a grump recently | 02:16 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, you have a N900? | 02:17 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, because I'm on a bug finding excursion. | 02:17 |
| lcuk | timeless, i noticed the same thing on talk.maemo.org with the font there | 02:17 |
| qwerty12_N810 | guysoft42: loaned | 02:17 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, those make me grumpy. | 02:17 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: it happens everywhere | 02:17 |
| lcuk | on my pc | 02:17 |
| timeless_mbp | we know, but we haven't really tried to figure it out | 02:17 |
| lcuk | i know the n900 is good, but it hasnt got a reality distortion field | 02:18 |
| GAN900 | Plus, there's not much cause to praise things since the vast majority of people responsible are still holed up. | 02:18 |
| lcuk | does it occur with all fonts | 02:18 |
| * GAN900 will thank timeless and Robot101, though. | 02:18 | |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: i don't think i've installed any non standard fonts | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | my guess is it's some kerning algorithm | 02:18 |
| GAN900 | Thanks timeless and Robot101! :) | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | it'd be very good for someone to try some non nokia fonts | 02:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | guysoft42: Nice! | 02:19 |
| Ppupnik | yes thanks to all involved with n900 - way to promote linux | 02:19 |
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| GAN900 | Plus any other Nokians/Maemo contractors floating in the room who weren't responsible for screwing more stuff up than they made awesome. ;) | 02:20 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 02:20 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, do you have a debian config for packaging a kernel module? i want to package the cdc_acm.ko i compiled | 02:20 |
| lcuk | lol | 02:20 |
| lcuk | GAN900, what about those who made awesome stuff but still screwed up some bits | 02:21 |
| Robot101 | lcuk: humans? most of the code was written by them actually :D | 02:21 |
| lcuk | :D | 02:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | guysoft42: Sorry, I've never attempted to compile a kernel from debian/rules | 02:21 |
| lcuk | good job you arent one | 02:21 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, no, just the .ko file | 02:21 |
| guysoft42 | i just need a tiny packages. we could upload it to the maemo devel-extras | 02:22 |
| guysoft42 | its useful, it sould work with any other cdc modems | 02:22 |
| qwerty12_N810 | extras-devel requires source | 02:22 |
| lcuk | why not upload the source | 02:22 |
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| lcuk | cos it would need compiling for different archs | 02:22 |
| lcuk | and your .ko would be built for one | 02:23 |
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| guysoft42 | lcuk, the source is the maemo kernel | 02:23 |
| Ppupnik | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/armel/scorched3d | 02:23 |
| guysoft42 | lcuk, isn't there a way to share kernel modules on the repos? | 02:24 |
| guysoft42 | someone must have done this | 02:24 |
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| lcuk | the community kernel quilt! | 02:24 |
| lcuk | didnt that get started a while back | 02:24 |
| lcuk | wasnt it meant to pull all the kernel mods together | 02:24 |
| lcuk | for highspeed mmc and stuff | 02:25 |
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| lcuk | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/kernels/ | 02:25 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, more than. ;) | 02:26 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, you are a member of that group | 02:26 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, and they can go eat dirt. :P | 02:26 |
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| guysoft42 | lcuk, well, i was hoping for something more user friendly | 02:26 |
| CVirus | Is it planned that Qt replaces Hildon ? | 02:26 |
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| guysoft42 | i want to compile now rt73usb | 02:26 |
| lcuk | and rt73usb is user friendly? | 02:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: I have a big-ass diff, actually | 02:26 |
| lcuk | i havent got the foggiest what it would mean | 02:26 |
| lcuk | so it doesnt sound friendly to me | 02:26 |
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| lcuk | rly qwerty12_N810 o_O | 02:27 |
| lcuk | is that as far as it got | 02:27 |
| GAN900 | qwerty12, go see Zombieland. | 02:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Any good? It's been out since the 9th here | 02:27 |
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| lcuk | guysoft42, | 02:28 |
| lcuk | what does it do | 02:28 |
| GAN900 | I laughed harder than I did at Hot Fuzz | 02:28 |
| GAN900 | I _loved_ it. | 02:28 |
| lcuk | and why would u ser need it | 02:28 |
| guysoft42 | lcuk, its a wireless stick | 02:28 |
| qwerty12_N810 | OK, you've got me convinced. Hot Fuzz was hilarious | 02:29 |
| lbt | night all | 02:29 |
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| GAN900 | qwerty12, in some ways I liked it more than Shaun of the Dead. | 02:29 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Ah, can't compare to that: I've never seen Shaun of the Dead | 02:30 |
| GAN900 | Though I think that's partially a cultural issue. | 02:30 |
| GAN900 | Ooooh, see that, too. | 02:30 |
| lcuk | shaun was rly rly funny :D | 02:30 |
| GAN900 | There's a cameo in Zombieland that hard me laughing harder at a movie than I have in years. | 02:31 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, do you know how to compile a kernel module in sb2, i seem to get make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.30-2-686/build: No such file or directory. | 02:31 |
| * GAN900 is rebooting to try to fix FM. Back in a sec. | 02:32 | |
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| guysoft42 | lcuk, maybe you do? | 02:32 |
| lcuk | unfortunately ive never needed to compile anything to do with the kernel ever | 02:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GuySoft: I think I mentioned something about chopping my balls off before I ever touch sb2; so, no, sorry, I wouldn't know :) | 02:32 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, so how the heck do you compile for maemo? | 02:33 |
| lcuk | guysoft42, did you already compile it in sb1 | 02:33 |
| qwerty12_N810 | guysoft42: sb1 | 02:33 |
| guysoft42 | lcuk, um, i did in sb2.. | 02:33 |
| guysoft42 | whats so bad about sb2? | 02:34 |
| lcuk | yeah qwerty12_N810 quick comparison for sb1 and sb2 | 02:34 |
| lcuk | and why its crap | 02:34 |
| lcuk | /not right for you | 02:34 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, also, how would you do a kernel module in sb1? | 02:34 |
| lcuk | get source (including kernel headers) enter folder | 02:35 |
| lcuk | type make | 02:35 |
| lcuk | same as building anything else | 02:35 |
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| CVirus | Is Qt going to replace Hildon sometime ? | 02:35 |
| guysoft42 | lcuk, and how do you point it to the kernel headers? | 02:35 |
| GAN900 | Hildon Desktop is playing nice again. | 02:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: Dunno, I didn't "get" it, sb2 -e vs fakeroot etc. Just wasn't for me. | 02:35 |
| RobertH[AU] | hey everyone, is it normal that when using apt in the sdk no packages can be verified? | 02:35 |
| lcuk | CVirus, qt has been penciled in for mainstream nokia use in harmattan | 02:36 |
| lcuk | flipping the switch between current status of gtk and qt | 02:36 |
| CVirus | lcuk: isn't there a release date for harmattan | 02:36 |
| CVirus | ? | 02:36 |
| lcuk | i heard it would be out sometime after lunch | 02:36 |
| CVirus | lol | 02:37 |
| lcuk | not sure what date specifically tho | 02:37 |
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| * GAN900 shivers | 02:37 | |
| GAN900 | Getting cold in Florida. | 02:37 |
| CVirus | lcuk: so basically harmattan is the end of GTK/Hildon on maemo ? | 02:37 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, can you at least try and help me to compile it? | 02:37 |
| GAN900 | No | 02:37 |
| GAN900 | It's the end of official support. | 02:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | guysoft42: Not while I'm not on a computer, no :) | 02:38 |
| CVirus | ah sure | 02:38 |
| lcuk | CVirus, it best not be. theres an lot of VERY good gtk code in all of maemo | 02:38 |
| GAN900 | It'll be community supported after that. | 02:38 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: there is? | 02:38 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, ah , nevermind then | 02:38 |
| CVirus | Qt is the way to go | 02:38 |
| GAN900 | Much like Python and Qt (until very recently). | 02:38 |
| luke-jr | if code uses gtk, it is bad code almost per definition ;) | 02:38 |
| CVirus | hehe | 02:38 |
| luke-jr | my N810 has gtk masked | 02:39 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, of fuck off and make a better toolkit then. app developers use whatever they can at the time to build their apps | 02:39 |
| GAN900 | luke-jr, keep the toolkit wars elsewhere, thanks. | 02:39 |
| lcuk | and those apps are on the whole good strong things | 02:39 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, got it! | 02:39 |
| guysoft42 | sb2 make -C ../../kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source/ | 02:39 |
| lcuk | no developer likes to see their code enter the bitbucket | 02:39 |
| guysoft42 | thanks to: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20126 | 02:40 |
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| luke-jr | lcuk: Qt | 02:40 |
| lcuk | so the devs making maemo apps should just sit on their ass and not develop until its ready? | 02:40 |
| luke-jr | it is ready | 02:40 |
| luke-jr | has been for years. | 02:40 |
| lcuk | so why are people still choosing gtk | 02:41 |
| luke-jr | FUD | 02:41 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, don't feed the trolls. | 02:41 |
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| luke-jr | lcuk: GTK/GNOME fanboys like to spread FUD that Qt is somehow non-free | 02:42 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, stop twisting this argument | 02:42 |
| luke-jr | that's basically the entire reason GTK exists | 02:42 |
| lcuk | where are the qt apps if its ready for us | 02:42 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: plenty of Qt apps | 02:42 |
| BBNS_ | CVirus, if you are intested what has been going on in Qt, following http://qt.gitorious.org/ and search maemo. | 02:42 |
| luke-jr | Arora, KDE, etc | 02:42 |
| lcuk | on maemo. | 02:42 |
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| CVirus | BBNS_: thanks | 02:43 |
| qwerty12_N810 | luke-jr: This is #maemo. Where are those apps on Maemo? | 02:43 |
| lcuk | i know its nearly ready | 02:43 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: GTK is part of why Maemo fails it | 02:43 |
| lcuk | its really nearly ready | 02:43 |
| * lcuk gets excited thinking about it | 02:43 | |
| luke-jr | but apps aren't (or shouldn't be) "Maemo apps" | 02:43 |
| luke-jr | they should be apps | 02:43 |
| luke-jr | that don't care about platform | 02:43 |
| CVirus | couldn't agree less | 02:43 |
| lcuk | ok | 02:43 |
| lcuk | have you got a maemo device there | 02:43 |
| CVirus | errr .. more* | 02:43 |
| CVirus | :-S | 02:43 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: nope, it runs Gentoo now | 02:44 |
| lcuk | have you got kde on it? | 02:44 |
| luke-jr | yep | 02:44 |
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| lcuk | then you win. | 02:44 |
| lcuk | bah! | 02:44 |
| lcuk | :D | 02:44 |
| luke-jr | lol | 02:44 |
| CVirus | what runs gentoo ? | 02:45 |
| * lcuk stretches a hand across the internet | 02:45 | |
| luke-jr | CVirus: my N810 | 02:45 |
| CVirus | oh .. cool | 02:45 |
| lcuk | how well does it run? | 02:45 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: at first, I thought it was too slow cuz of the RAM shortage | 02:45 |
| luke-jr | but upon revisiting Maemo's browser | 02:45 |
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| luke-jr | it's actually better | 02:45 |
| lcuk | maybe its just settling in | 02:45 |
| Ppupnik | running gentoo on a tablet is a nice accomplishment | 02:45 |
| lcuk | when i ran portal on my old pc | 02:45 |
| lcuk | the graphics card wasnt upto snuff | 02:45 |
| lcuk | but after a few weeks i didnt care | 02:46 |
| luke-jr | I compared Arora, Konqueror, and Maemo for browsing | 02:46 |
| Ppupnik | which is exactly why not to do it | 02:46 |
| luke-jr | surprisingly, Arora won out | 02:46 |
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| lcuk | most regular folks wont tho | 02:46 |
| Ppupnik | hmm | 02:46 |
| lcuk | and hence, not quite ready | 02:46 |
| lcuk | its like me and liqbase - little hurdles to get over | 02:46 |
| lcuk | rather than big humps | 02:46 |
| guysoft42 | ah wait, that compiles the kernel :-/ | 02:47 |
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| GAN900 | luke-jr, not a valid comparison. | 02:48 |
| GAN900 | As MicroB in Diablo is years out of date. | 02:48 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, sometimes you piss me off, tonight you really surprised me. thank you. do you blog about getting gentoo on n810? | 02:49 |
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| luke-jr | lcuk: no | 02:50 |
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| luke-jr | lcuk: slonopotamus and I maintain a website and repository | 02:50 |
| GAN900 | So what you've figured out with your little experiment there is that a new WebKit is faster than Gecko from the first Firefox 3.0 alpha | 02:50 |
| lcuk | well thats something | 02:50 |
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| lcuk | where is it? | 02:50 |
| luke-jr | GAN900: valid comparison, since there is no newer MicroB for N810 | 02:50 |
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| luke-jr | http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0 | 02:50 |
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| GAN900 | luke-jr, not for the conclusions you're attemption to draw. | 02:51 |
| GAN900 | and Fremantle MicroB should run on Diablo. | 02:51 |
| GAN900 | s/ion/ing/ | 02:51 |
| ali1234 | i bet arora is still miles faster though | 02:52 |
| lcuk | thanks luke-jr :) | 02:53 |
| pupnik_ | i nove browser "suspend javascript" | 02:53 |
| pupnik_ | love | 02:53 |
| lcuk | btw, luke-jr http://git.slonopotamus.org/?p=fb_text2screen is coming up with a bad gateway | 02:53 |
| lcuk | released sources are there | 02:53 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: hmm, I wouldn't know. slonopotamus maintains the git repo and text2screen | 02:53 |
| ShadowJK | I don't think tear knows how to kill cpu use when device is idle :/ | 02:54 |
| ShadowJK | i love that about microb | 02:54 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: I use a semi-normal initrd for now | 02:54 |
| lcuk | i notice theres a section on chroot | 02:54 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GAN900: Hmm, is the FM transmitter disabled when charging from a computer, from the wall or both? | 02:54 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: Gentoo is always installed via chroot | 02:55 |
| luke-jr | qwerty12_N810: he said from the wall | 02:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah, thanks | 02:55 |
| lcuk | so itsn ot a killer? | 02:55 |
| lcuk | os killer rather | 02:56 |
| lcuk | it sits alongside | 02:56 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: ? | 02:56 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: Gentoo is installed via chroot. It can run from a boot. | 02:57 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: ping | 02:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | can someone try webwizardry.net/~timeless/msgtest.pl.txt for me? | 02:58 |
| timeless_mbp | (requires zenity) | 02:58 |
| timeless_mbp | (and gettext) | 02:58 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: any linux distro can be run from chroot, or not, as you prefer | 02:59 |
| ali1234 | there's nothing special about it | 02:59 |
| luke-jr | ali1234: to a degree | 02:59 |
| ali1234 | to a degree nothing | 02:59 |
| lcuk | as a windows user, i am scared by most things linuxy | 02:59 |
| luke-jr | ... | 02:59 |
| ali1234 | all you need is a kernel that's compatible to all of them | 03:00 |
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| ali1234 | which isn't particularly hard unless you want to run something exotic like android | 03:00 |
| pupnik_ | ok timeless | 03:00 |
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| lcuk | timeless_mbp, internal server error with that file | 03:01 |
| pupnik_ | error 500 | 03:02 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, hold | 03:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | webwizardry.net/~timeless/msgtest.txt | 03:02 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, ali1234 operating system recursion makes my head hurt. im used to having solid functions to run at the end of a chain | 03:03 |
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| ali1234 | lcuk: wat? | 03:03 |
| pupnik_ | 404 now | 03:03 |
| pupnik_ | ahh | 03:03 |
| timeless_mbp | 404? | 03:03 |
| pupnik_ | wrong link | 03:03 |
| lcuk | dont worry ali1234 lol, just my head | 03:04 |
| ali1234 | lcuk: all chroot does is change the location of "/" - literally change root. as such, you end up with a different set of libs in /libs and a different set of binaries in /bin. that's all | 03:04 |
| ali1234 | there's really no recursion involved | 03:04 |
| pupnik_ | program gives menu with 3 choices | 03:05 |
| timeless_mbp | try the last one as a starting point | 03:05 |
| pupnik_ | i like zenity | 03:05 |
| timeless_mbp | it'll let you wander around things hopefully | 03:05 |
| timeless_mbp | once you've gotten comfortable using the last item, try the other two | 03:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'll probably write a startup video switcher using zenity in a bit | 03:06 |
| pupnik_ | select domain loop timeless | 03:06 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik_: hrm, which path? | 03:07 |
| pupnik_ | de | 03:07 |
| pupnik_ | domain, locale, domain, locale | 03:07 |
| timeless_mbp | you should be able to cancel out of things | 03:07 |
| pupnik_ | k | 03:07 |
| pupnik_ | y3p | 03:07 |
| pupnik_ | nice | 03:07 |
| pupnik_ | i will use this yenity | 03:08 |
| pupnik_ | z | 03:08 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm.... | 03:08 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not seeing a loop | 03:08 |
| timeless_mbp | are you sure you didn't click cancel? | 03:08 |
| pupnik_ | yes | 03:08 |
| pupnik_ | soelect locale - de | 03:08 |
| pupnik_ | select domain comes up | 03:09 |
| pupnik_ | in domain list is "adduser" | 03:09 |
| pupnik_ | clickung "adduser" and ok | 03:09 |
| timeless_mbp | the title is probably bad | 03:09 |
| pupnik_ | gives window with title "domain: adduser" | 03:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | yeah | 03:10 |
| pupnik_ | and Kocale: de | 03:10 |
| timeless_mbp | that last view is the list of strings for adduser/de | 03:10 |
| pupnik_ | and a two-column empty list with fields ID and Value | 03:10 |
| timeless_mbp | if you can suggest a better way to explain this... | 03:10 |
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| pupnik_ | maybe text explaining what this is about | 03:11 |
| timeless_mbp | suggestions welcome ... | 03:13 |
| timeless_mbp | the idea is to enable people to review/compare strings | 03:13 |
| pupnik_ | what is this about? | 03:13 |
| pupnik_ | ahhhh | 03:13 |
| pupnik_ | now i get "select domain" and "camera" is only item in list | 03:14 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway... i think if you're able to walk around w/o hitting errors, that's a good start | 03:18 |
| timeless_mbp | it looks like ru_RU / ham doesn't work right | 03:18 |
| timeless_mbp | not sure why | 03:18 |
| timeless_mbp | he is breaking something :(~ | 03:19 |
| pupnik_ | mm | 03:20 |
| pupnik_ | nikce ikdeda | 03:20 |
| timeless_mbp | ham in mer 0.16 doesn't seem to handle .installs very well :( | 03:22 |
| pupnik_ | mmm | 03:23 |
| t_s_o | ugh, now thats bothersome, it seems maemo4 enables power saving on the wifi when the display times out for lack of use, even if its been disabled (using wifiinfo for instance) | 03:23 |
| greenfly | ok i've spent 15 mins om google with no answers... how do I hit alt on the n900? | 03:23 |
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| timeless_mbp | greenfly: you don't? | 03:24 |
| lcuk | i always thought alt was the blue arrow | 03:24 |
| timeless_mbp | nope | 03:24 |
| greenfly | really? you'd think there were some way | 03:25 |
| timeless_mbp | why? | 03:25 |
| lcuk | what is it then timeless | 03:25 |
| greenfly | because it is a common key | 03:25 |
| timeless_mbp | greenfly: how many typewriters have you met w/ an alt key? | 03:25 |
| greenfly | some | 03:25 |
| greenfly | ... | 03:25 |
| timeless_mbp | typewriters? | 03:25 |
| timeless_mbp | how many phones have you met w/ alt keys? | 03:26 |
| greenfly | is that really your argument? | 03:26 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 03:26 |
| timeless_mbp | the real argument is that the idiotic hardware designers decided to limit the number of keys | 03:26 |
| timeless_mbp | and you're complaining about the lack of an alt key | 03:26 |
| timeless_mbp | when most of the regions complain about the lack of up and down arrows | 03:26 |
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| greenfly | no I'm not complaining at all, just asking if there were some combo to trigger it | 03:27 |
| greenfly | if the answer is "no" then fine. I will work around it | 03:28 |
| Ppupnik | we have a pipe key yet | 03:28 |
| Ppupnik | greenfly, maybe get xev | 03:28 |
| greenfly | Ppupnik: it's available in the symbols | 03:28 |
| Ppupnik | aahh | 03:29 |
| Ppupnik | do you know pipe shortcut for terminal? | 03:29 |
| Ppupnik | ctrl+i is tab | 03:29 |
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| lcuk | we should make sure keesj's nbutton has pipe and tab | 03:30 |
| greenfly | unfortunately no. was lookimg for tab to make irssi easier to use | 03:30 |
| greenfly | er for alt | 03:30 |
| Ppupnik | ctrl n / p should work | 03:31 |
| lcuk | the way the proximity sensor was used for trigger on q3 | 03:31 |
| lcuk | can that be generically done | 03:31 |
| Ppupnik | what triggers proximity | 03:32 |
| Ppupnik | shadow? | 03:32 |
| Ppupnik | capacitance? | 03:32 |
| lcuk | someone said it has ir led | 03:32 |
| lcuk | and detectts shine back | 03:33 |
| Ppupnik | k | 03:33 |
| Ppupnik | i wwant 2p coop robotron on n900 | 03:33 |
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| * lcuk doesnt know how to handle liqbase packaging | 03:35 | |
| Ppupnik | heh i know the confuzzlement | 03:36 |
| lcuk | well if i make specific packages for each of the modules i use | 03:37 |
| lcuk | i fill up my main menu on n900 | 03:37 |
| Ppupnik | can we still manually build packages? | 03:37 |
| lcuk | with items i never use | 03:37 |
| Ppupnik | mhm | 03:37 |
| lcuk | cos i run in the playground | 03:37 |
| lcuk | its a granuality issue | 03:37 |
| lcuk | i dont just want a single package to install liqbase and dump everything in there | 03:37 |
| lcuk | thats no better than last year | 03:38 |
| lcuk | but i still have lots of apps | 03:38 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: can you offer a way to generate .desktop files for people? | 03:41 |
| timeless_mbp | so that they can choose which items appear in the menu? | 03:41 |
| lcuk | not practical really - its a user app | 03:41 |
| lcuk | .desktops are stored in root end arent they | 03:42 |
| lcuk | i could obviously | 03:42 |
| timeless_mbp | have you installed my translation package/ | 03:42 |
| lcuk | but its the first time | 03:42 |
| lcuk | not sure | 03:42 |
| lcuk | i installed a load of stuff, but reflashed device recently | 03:43 |
| timeless_mbp | you'd remember | 03:43 |
| timeless_mbp | but you can look at how i manage that problem | 03:43 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: Y'know, desktop files do look an awful lot like GLib's GKeyFiles... That could probably be hacked up to dump a desktop file, but, say, liqbase was uninstalled? How would you ensure that the generated desktop files were gone? | 03:44 |
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| lcuk | yeah qwerty12_N810 | 03:44 |
| lcuk | the problem actually extends beyond that tho | 03:44 |
| lcuk | for another reason :P | 03:44 |
| lcuk | we need control panel panels applet | 03:44 |
| lcuk | to manage icons | 03:45 |
| lcuk | i might just treat everything as widgets | 03:45 |
| lcuk | and not even add em to the menu | 03:45 |
| timeless_mbp | postrm | 03:46 |
| timeless_mbp | can clean up your generated goop | 03:46 |
| lcuk | timeless too late | 03:46 |
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| lcuk | install liqbase | 03:46 |
| lcuk | install liqtorch | 03:46 |
| lcuk | add icon for liqtorch - using liqbase | 03:46 |
| lcuk | remove liqtorch | 03:46 |
| lcuk | icon would stay | 03:47 |
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| liori | symlinks? | 03:48 |
| timeless_mbp | any provider would need to have a postrm to kill its file | 03:48 |
| liori | if a symlink doesn't work, treat it as not existing; make all desktop files in one place, and let the user symlink the necessary ones to his directory if he want to? | 03:49 |
| lcuk | ahhhhhhhhhh | 03:49 |
| lcuk | plan b | 03:49 |
| timeless_mbp | liori: you're assuming a sane design for the menu chooser | 03:49 |
| timeless_mbp | that seems unlikely | 03:49 |
| lcuk | install everything with the playground itself as normal | 03:50 |
| lcuk | just throw the kitchen sink of liq_lcuk modules | 03:50 |
| lcuk | from one package | 03:50 |
| lcuk | if user explicitely wants torch from the menu | 03:50 |
| lcuk | they can install a specific package which just links to the already existing liq* stuff | 03:50 |
| lcuk | .desktop rather | 03:50 |
| lcuk | so the package itself is just the desktop | 03:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | that'd work | 03:51 |
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| lcuk | makes my standard life easier | 03:52 |
| lcuk | cos i would only create a specific package when required | 03:52 |
| lcuk | becomes a bit heavier tho | 03:52 |
| lcuk | but liqbase is kinda light | 03:52 |
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| Ppupnik | http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&q=programmer+needed&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=programmer+needed&fp=38c542da47a26377 | 03:55 |
| wazd | nini maemo :) | 03:56 |
| Ppupnik | cheers | 03:56 |
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| lcuk | pupnik, whats up | 03:57 |
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| Ppupnik | tgired | 04:00 |
| Ppupnik | listening to greenwald on cair and the nnuclear first strike madmen | 04:01 |
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| Ppupnik | nerf | 05:13 |
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| Solarion | stupid U2 | 05:14 |
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| lcuk | Solarion, do you need glasses | 05:20 |
| Solarion | lcuk: for what? | 05:21 |
| lcuk | reading | 05:21 |
| Solarion | reading which? | 05:21 |
| lcuk | are you the owner of your "Higher-res screen?" thread | 05:21 |
| Solarion | Yes | 05:21 |
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| Solarion | which one are you? | 05:21 |
| lcuk | i am lcuk | 05:22 |
| Solarion | did you post there? | 05:22 |
| lcuk | i just read it | 05:22 |
| lcuk | nahh | 05:22 |
| Solarion | ah | 05:22 |
| lcuk | i think you are just getting to the limit of your focal length | 05:22 |
| Solarion | so what am I allegedly failing to read? | 05:22 |
| Solarion | aaah | 05:22 |
| * GeneralAntilles will always pick higher DPI. | 05:22 | |
| lcuk | and on some font sizes i get same | 05:22 |
| Solarion | this is not an insult; this is an honest quesiton | 05:22 |
| Solarion | No, I don't need glasses | 05:23 |
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| Solarion | I don't think so; my fonts on my lappy are very small too | 05:23 |
| Solarion | maybe evince's font rendering sucks; is also possible | 05:23 |
| lcuk | is there any focal length where the perceived smudgyeness vanishes ? | 05:23 |
| lcuk | lol | 05:23 |
| lcuk | yeah theres always problems with font rendering in many places | 05:24 |
| * lcuk has issues with utf | 05:24 | |
| Solarion | no; the glyphs are rendered to small for the pixels | 05:24 |
| Solarion | It's like I can almost make it out, but the pixels just dont' sufice; the text is too small to fit in the grid | 05:24 |
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| Solarion | We can chat more about this tomorrow when I don't have to be asleep and I don't have spotty internet link (I hope) | 05:25 |
| lcuk | heh as a glasses user im used to that | 05:25 |
| Solarion | Cox is coming out tomorrow to fix it | 05:25 |
| lcuk | the whole world is kinda smudged | 05:25 |
| Solarion | ah | 05:25 |
| Solarion | I am far-sighted in one eye and short-sighted in the other, and they seme to compensate for each other | 05:25 |
| derf | Evince's font rendering sucks. | 05:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | MicroB's font rendering sucks. | 05:26 |
| lcuk | why cant we just have infinite resolution displays and true vector based rendering | 05:26 |
| derf | lcuk: Because they would still fuck it up. | 05:26 |
| lcuk | liqbases font rendering sucks | 05:26 |
| lcuk | heh but it would be cool | 05:26 |
| lcuk | and solarion would be happy | 05:26 |
| derf | Most of evince's problems are related to hinting and inappropriate substitutions. | 05:26 |
| derf | Vector displays wouldn't help it any. | 05:27 |
| Solarion | (and it's a very small amount; no glasses neded) | 05:27 |
| Solarion | but I gotta go t o bed; we can chat tomorrow | 05:27 |
| Solarion | and the net link is starting to act up again frickin' squirrels | 05:27 |
| Solarion | Tree rats, the logt of 'em | 05:27 |
| lcuk | using a loupe to read text engraved on the back surface of a gnats wing | 05:27 |
| Solarion | INah; even if you were to think I'd happy; I'd still find a way to be upset and self-righteously indignant | 05:27 |
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| Solarion | yeah, yay squirrels | 05:27 |
| Solarion | sleep | 05:27 |
| * Solarion & | 05:27 | |
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| timeless_mbp | anyone here familiar w/ sudoers? | 05:33 |
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| zgold | has anybody had an issue with mydocs mysteriously being mounted readonly sometimes on boot? | 05:49 |
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| Ppupnik | not i | 05:52 |
| Ppupnik | i have had device claim still connected to usb on shutdown | 05:52 |
| Ppupnik | isnt monday october 19th release day? | 05:52 |
| Ppupnik | can i get firmware then? | 05:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 05:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | No firmware for you. | 05:53 |
| Ppupnik | :( | 05:53 |
| zgold | i dont think anybody knows the day for sure yet | 05:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'm sure somebody does. ;) | 05:53 |
| zgold | they may be waiting for code to be ready, who knows | 05:54 |
| Ppupnik | most of the actual bugsa need testing for repeatability nand causes | 05:54 |
| Ppupnik | du -s /usr/share/* I sort -n | 05:55 |
| Ppupnik | can these bloths be optified plx | 05:55 |
| Ppupnik | it feels like driving a vw bug stuffed to the gills with a 500 lb woman | 05:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gross | 05:56 |
| Ppupnik | good morning :) | 05:56 |
| Ppupnik | .... with the heat turned to full | 05:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | That actually sounds nice in this weather. :D | 05:58 |
| Ppupnik | i want a japanese rock hot spring type setjup | 05:59 |
| Ppupnik | geothermal | 05:59 |
| Ppupnik | sit in there all winter like a snow monkey | 05:59 |
| Ppupnik | need to order 5000 liters of fuel oil gen | 06:00 |
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| Ppupnik | repair parts for lappy underwsy so i can work in front of wood stove | 06:01 |
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| timeless_mbp | jeremiah: ping | 06:15 |
| timeless_mbp | or GeneralAntilles or someone | 06:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i need help w/ dpkg-buildpackage | 06:15 |
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| lcuk | timeless, whats prob - the postinst? | 06:17 |
| lcuk | is it in debian/ folder | 06:17 |
| timeless_mbp | postinst isn't being packaged afaict | 06:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, I've never built a Debian package in my life. :P | 06:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | originally i built my debs by hand | 06:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | those were much safer | 06:19 |
| lcuk | arghh what evilness are you using now | 06:19 |
| timeless_mbp | dpkg-buildpackage | 06:20 |
| timeless_mbp | and believe me, i regret it | 06:20 |
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| lcuk | ok, to put a postinst into the package | 06:20 |
| lcuk | it should just be in the debian/ folder afaik | 06:20 |
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| lcuk | timeless, also, you build packages by hand.. | 06:22 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 06:22 |
| lcuk | i cant build packages on the tablet | 06:23 |
| lcuk | i have to defer to scratchbox for that one evilness | 06:23 |
| * GeneralAntilles still needs somebody to 'splain key rebinding. | 06:24 | |
| GeneralAntilles | There's nothing in the hal stuff that gives me any clues. | 06:24 |
| lcuk | this was the page about it for n810 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2007/12/31/adding-pipe-and-tab-to-the-n810-keyboard/ | 06:25 |
| lcuk | maybe you will learn something from it ? | 06:26 |
| lcuk | i need to sleep tho | 06:28 |
| lcuk | gnite timeless GeneralAntilles chritto | 06:28 |
| timeless_mbp | good night | 06:28 |
| chritto | g'nite | 06:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, tried, didn't work. | 06:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok, got it | 06:38 |
| timeless_mbp | stupid me | 06:38 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: so... | 06:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i finally have a version that i think mostly works | 06:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | blassey: ! | 06:41 |
| blassey | hi timeless | 06:41 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm looking for someone to test a package for me :) | 06:41 |
| timeless_mbp | native speakers most welcome | 06:41 |
| * timeless_mbp eyes ai_ni_multiple_install | 06:42 | |
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| timeless_mbp | ouch | 06:47 |
| * timeless_mbp triggers a watchdog because bounce+not responding dialog = deadlock | 06:47 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | HAL is making my brain hurt. | 06:51 |
| * GeneralAntilles just wants to find the right file to edit. :( | 06:51 | |
| JackBeSlow | I have been trying to find a list of apps available for mer, google it seems is not my friend today | 06:51 |
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| * GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk. | 07:13 | |
| * Proteous attaches a dynamo and gets power off of GeneralAntilles headbanging | 07:14 | |
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| slonopotamus | lcuk, luke-jr, hit.slonopotamus.org fixed | 07:43 |
| slonopotamus | s/h/g/ | 07:43 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: lcuk, luke-jr, git.slonopotamus.org fixed | 07:43 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: cool | 07:44 |
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| slonopotamus | luke-jr, was updating lighttpd recently, they moved spawn-fcgi to separate package, so i installed in instead of lighttpd but forgot that gitweb was handled by it :/ | 07:45 |
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| luke-jr | slonopotamus: not apache? O.o | 07:46 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, no, why? | 07:46 |
| luke-jr | I just assume everything is apache | 07:47 |
| slonopotamus | apache is more memory-hungry | 07:47 |
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| samad | i can't install curl_7.15.5-1etch3_i386.deb. How can i do this ? | 08:07 |
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| thux | morning | 08:28 |
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| RST38h | moorning | 08:29 |
| samad | i want to install libcurl what should i do ? | 08:32 |
| thux | is there any good way to tell is sdcard partly broken? | 08:33 |
| RST38h | fsck? | 08:33 |
| slonopotamus_ | lcuk, why you were looking there at all, btw? :) | 08:34 |
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| thux | fsck can be run orginal fat fs too? | 08:34 |
| RST38h | well there is a special version | 08:34 |
| thux | ok thanks i try that | 08:35 |
| RST38h | fsck.msdos I think | 08:35 |
| thux | ok | 08:35 |
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| dmj7261 | Hey, anybody heard of a game called World of Goo? | 08:37 |
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| dmj7261 | http://2dboy.com/ | 08:37 |
| dmj7261 | It's a game for Linux/mac/windows | 08:37 |
| dmj7261 | They're making an iphone 3GS (maybe 3G too) port | 08:38 |
| dmj7261 | Top post is about that and the pay what you want sale today | 08:38 |
| dmj7261 | I think we should try to get an n900 port | 08:39 |
| dmj7261 | I suspect that a maemo port would be trivial (minor UI tweaks to linux port and recompile for arm) | 08:40 |
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| Stskeeps | dmj7261: suggest on talk.* | 08:42 |
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| dmj7261 | yeah, registering now | 08:42 |
| RST38h | or better do a port yourself, you say it will be trivial | 08:43 |
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| dmj7261 | I don't have the source code | 08:46 |
| dmj7261 | It's a proprietary game that's usually $20 | 08:46 |
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| RST38h | ok. how do you port it then? | 08:46 |
| dmj7261 | But it's cross platform already and has no drm | 08:46 |
| dmj7261 | bug the company to port it | 08:46 |
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| RST38h | ok, you know what to do | 08:48 |
| dmj7261 | I already suggested porting it, but a lot of n900 users requesting it would likely make this indie jump on maemo | 08:48 |
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| RST38h | there is a total of about 300+ N900 users right now | 08:51 |
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| dmj7261 | How many people will have one soon? | 08:52 |
| RST38h | who knows? | 08:52 |
| dmj7261 | (soon being after actual release) | 08:52 |
| dmj7261 | I don't have one but will hopefully soon. | 08:52 |
| dmj7261 | Just posted about it on talk | 08:58 |
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| vesa | world of goo is great fun, got it for wii. would buy for this n900 | 09:06 |
| dmj7261 | vesa: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=350928#post350928 | 09:06 |
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| Corsac | yeah, wog is definitely quite fun | 09:12 |
| thux | is it 3d game? | 09:12 |
| dmj7261 | 2D, but very fun | 09:13 |
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| thux | then old maemo devices can run it too? | 09:14 |
| Corsac | 2d but I think it requires some 3d graphics | 09:14 |
| Corsac | so not until they get a driver | 09:14 |
| thux | ok | 09:14 |
| Corsac | I think it's opengl | 09:14 |
| dmj7261 | probably needs some form of opengl | 09:14 |
| dmj7261 | They mentioned an iphone 3GS port | 09:14 |
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| dmj7261 | (and weren't sure if the 3G could handle it) | 09:15 |
| suihkulokki | wold of goo uses GL, so a n900 port would need a GL -> GLES 2.0 port | 09:15 |
| vesa | done ?) | 09:15 |
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| Corsac | iphone 3g is gles too isn't it? | 09:15 |
| dmj7261 | iphone 3GS port -> opengl es 2.0 should be done | 09:15 |
| Corsac | or 3gs | 09:15 |
| dmj7261 | http://2dboy.com/ read the top post | 09:16 |
| dmj7261 | combine an iphone port + a linux port should be something like a maemo port | 09:16 |
| dmj7261 | thanks vesa | 09:18 |
| ab | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHmH_U5-YL8 | 09:20 |
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| dmj7261 | WoG would make an excellent Maemo Select app! | 09:22 |
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| samad | i want to install libcurl what should i do ? | 10:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | use apt-get like everyone else | 10:08 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. learn to use apt-get | 10:08 |
| timeless_mbp | 3. use it | 10:08 |
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| tigert | morning | 10:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | tigert: yes | 10:27 |
| * timeless_mbp is looking for testers | 10:28 | |
| rmt | timeless, for what? | 10:28 |
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| rmt | Oh.. I'm strictly british English.. so if you need someone to notice where you've screwed up translations, I'll be pointing out the opposite. :-P | 10:30 |
| rmt | But I should have some time this afternoon to look at it, if you just want to see if it breaks things. | 10:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | there's a british variant for this floating around | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | it's in my tree | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | rmt: actually | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | you can take advantage of the most recent feature | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | you can look up strings and compare them :) | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | well, comparing isn't very easy, since you'll get a lot of stuff you don't care about | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | but you can try :) | 10:33 |
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| tigert | rmt: nah, brits have the correct english anyway | 10:38 |
| RST38h | <yawn> | 10:38 |
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| tigert | hmm | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: james disagrees :) | 10:39 |
| tigert | transmission should really renice it self or something | 10:39 |
| rmt | I think the Americans stopped far too soon with their language changes .. and now it's still impractical, but just looks silly. | 10:39 |
| RST38h | tigert: it seems to be issuing shitloads of system calls | 10:40 |
| RST38h | tigert: doubt that rnicing will fix that | 10:40 |
| tigert | I think it helped a bit | 10:40 |
| tigert | but I guess the problem is that it opens a ton of network connections too | 10:41 |
| RST38h | that too, but I still suspect polling and non-blocking reads in a tight loop | 10:41 |
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| RST38h | strace results seem to support that | 10:42 |
| tigert | yea | 10:42 |
| tigert | its a shame, I wonder if it could be better | 10:42 |
| tigert | since its a nice app but the performance hogging is just insane | 10:42 |
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| * timeless_mbp frowns | 10:42 | |
| zerojay | did the maemo 4 version have the same issues? | 10:43 |
| timeless_mbp | is it possible to have a debian/foo.changelog ? | 10:43 |
| tigert | I didnt use maemo4 version | 10:43 |
| RST38h | tigert: I looked at it but could not figure out what is going on so far | 10:43 |
| tigert | this is now nicer because it has more finger-friendly ui | 10:43 |
| RST38h | tigert: Really need some torrent export to take a look | 10:43 |
| RST38h | s/export/expert | 10:43 |
| tigert | yeah | 10:43 |
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| RST38h | Anyone knows the Pipeline guy who did the original Transmission port? | 10:46 |
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| RST38h | Is he on IRC? =) | 10:46 |
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| tigert | renicing seems to definitely help | 10:52 |
| tigert | but it could be just the fact that transmission opens all the shit in the beginning | 10:52 |
| tigert | and things just calm down after that | 10:52 |
| RST38h | not really | 10:54 |
| RST38h | start a few transfers and see it slow down to a crawl | 10:54 |
| RST38h | compare that to a program that just does while(1) {} - this program will not slow your system to a crawl | 10:54 |
| tigert | right | 10:54 |
| tigert | yea, because a busylooping app is easy to multitask | 10:55 |
| tigert | just eats cpu | 10:55 |
| RST38h | so we definitely are dealing with a lot of I/O and/or kernel calls | 10:55 |
| RST38h | yep | 10:55 |
| tigert | iowait is much harder issue | 10:55 |
| tigert | I think you are right | 10:55 |
| RST38h | Remember that goddamn Flash in Diablo? It did gettimeofday() like that | 10:55 |
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| tigert | then again torrenting on 3G... not going to start multiple torrents at once ;) | 10:55 |
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| RST38h | tigert: actually if it just waited for io, it would be even easier than busy loop | 10:55 |
| RST38h | tigert: the problem is that it does polling for io | 10:56 |
| RST38h | And if I were a little bit brighter and my oracular balls a little bit shinier, I would be able to track down where it polls... | 10:56 |
| tigert | right | 10:56 |
| tigert | ;) | 10:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: surely you can install -dbg packages and use oprofile? | 11:03 |
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| samad | i want to install libcurl what should i do ? | 11:05 |
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| * timeless_mbp kicks samad | 11:05 | |
| timeless_mbp | go read an intro to debian guide | 11:05 |
| timeless_mbp | focus on the apt-get bit | 11:05 |
| timeless_mbp | or go play with HAM and read about Red Pill | 11:05 |
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| woglinde | jo | 11:11 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: pong | 11:13 |
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| lbt | morning Jaffa | 11:13 |
| lbt | did you catch my msg last night? | 11:13 |
| Jaffa | I did. | 11:14 |
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| lbt | I'm trying to provide some sane APIs in Qt | 11:14 |
| Jaffa | Right. | 11:14 |
| lbt | like signal inBackGround() | 11:14 |
| lbt | so the QHildonMainWindow emits that and the app can do the right thing | 11:15 |
| * Jaffa nods. Sounds sensible. | 11:15 | |
| lbt | also "signal saveState()" and some rotation ones... | 11:15 |
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| lbt | essentially abstractions of the Hildon desktop environment | 11:15 |
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| lbt | so looking to determine the implementation algos for M5 | 11:16 |
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| tigert | hmm | 11:16 |
| Jaffa | First question is if they should be trigger-oriented ('inBackground') or functionality oriented: 'onRequestStopProcessing(BackgroundType {BACKGROUND, DISPLAY_OFF} | 11:16 |
| tigert | smile to the camera ;) | 11:17 |
| tigert | you can breathe again | 11:18 |
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| Jaffa | Hmm, I can't log in to maemo.org | 11:21 |
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| * timeless_mbp looks for a dpkg expert | 11:26 | |
| woglinde | timeless_mbp hm | 11:26 |
| woglinde | programming or using? | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | building | 11:27 |
| woglinde | optify? | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | nah | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i want to generate two packages foo and bar | 11:27 |
| woglinde | so whats the problem? | 11:27 |
| woglinde | yes | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | can i have debian/foo.changelog and debian/bar.changelog ? | 11:27 |
| woglinde | from one source package? | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 11:27 |
| woglinde | didnt saw this yet | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | well, from one source directory | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i haven't actually *packaged* my sources yet :) | 11:27 |
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| woglinde | timeless_mbp sorry always I saw only one changelog | 11:29 |
| woglinde | why you cant write it into one? | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | well, i'm maintaining two competing products :) | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | enus1 and engb1 | 11:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | they're very related, so i'd rather avoid having distinct source directories | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | (i'm using symlinks to make dpkg-buildpackage happy) | 11:30 |
| lbt | Jaffa: yep ... so a set of meaningful states and a stateChangeNotification() event sounds good | 11:30 |
| woglinde | whahahahaa | 11:30 |
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| lbt | timeless_mbp: changelog is a src changelog | 11:32 |
| lbt | nothing to stop you managing stuff in docs/ | 11:32 |
| timeless_mbp | does the changelog not get packaged into the packages itself? | 11:32 |
| lbt | for user consumption and packaging | 11:33 |
| lbt | yes it does | 11:33 |
| woglinde | hm which changelog you mean? | 11:33 |
| lbt | should have said "per src changelog" | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | in dpkg-buildpackage, the changelog affects the package versioning | 11:33 |
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| woglinde | debian.changelog? | 11:33 |
| lbt | it does | 11:33 |
| woglinde | or normal foo.changelog | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | debian/changelog | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | i thought i was relatively clear | 11:33 |
| woglinde | make two debian dirs | 11:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | that's incredibly annoying :) | 11:35 |
| woglinde | no | 11:35 |
| woglinde | *sigh* | 11:35 |
| timeless_mbp | it's definitely annoying | 11:36 |
| woglinde | no | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | i currently have 2 symlinks and 1 directory tree | 11:36 |
| woglinde | even rpm dont make such errors | 11:36 |
| woglinde | 2 products 2 changelos | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | to do what you suggest would require ~10 symlinks and 3 directory trees | 11:36 |
| woglinde | use svn or git buildpackage | 11:37 |
| timeless_mbp | yuck, and ick | 11:37 |
| timeless_mbp | neither of those will help me much | 11:37 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: ping | 11:38 |
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| suihkulokki | timeless_mbp: do you want x binary packages with different versions or really to ship different changelog files in different binary packages ? | 11:38 |
| timeless_mbp | mostly the latter | 11:39 |
| timeless_mbp | however they're vaguely related | 11:39 |
| timeless_mbp | if the engb version needs to have one extra version release because there's an extra british only string fix, i want to be able to do that | 11:39 |
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| woglinde | 2 debian dirs | 11:40 |
| timeless_mbp | but i don't want the 90% of the code to get out of sync | 11:40 |
| Corsac | hem | 11:40 |
| Corsac | upstream changelog and debian changelogs are no way related | 11:40 |
| woglinde | or one | 11:40 |
| woglinde | changelog | 11:40 |
| Corsac | you can ship two upstream changelogs per src package, no problem | 11:40 |
| Corsac | but the debian/changelog is unique per source package | 11:41 |
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| woglinde | Corsac I think his problem is version bumping | 11:41 |
| suihkulokki | timeless_mbp: if you just want to affect the version number, you can do it with parameters to dpkg-gencontrol (usually via dh_gencontrol -- ) | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | woglinde is correct | 11:41 |
| Corsac | woglinde: I don't see the problem, tbh | 11:41 |
| Corsac | if there are two sources, make two debian src packages | 11:42 |
| Corsac | even if upstream the sources are shared | 11:42 |
| woglinde | corsac *sigh* thats what I told him | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | 'upstream' | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | in this case is a single directory tree being managed by this stupid debian junk | 11:42 |
| Corsac | yes, it doesn't matter if upstream and packager are the same people | 11:42 |
| Corsac | development and packaging are _not_ the same task | 11:42 |
| woglinde | timeless_mbp rpm can handle this? | 11:42 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 11:43 | |
| timeless_mbp | i could roll my own tool to handle this for .deb | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | .deb itself could fairly easily handle this | 11:43 |
| suihkulokki | timeless_mbp: for installing different changelogs, just replace dh_installchangelogs in debian/rules with your own install/cp/whatever calls | 11:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: ok, that sounds like the path i want | 11:44 |
| suihkulokki | timeless_mbp: actually, reading dh_installchangelogs manpage, there is a even easier solution ;) | 11:45 |
| woglinde | suihkulokki and how is the versioning stuff than handled? | 11:45 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: basically you want one debian source package which builds two binary packages versioned differently? | 11:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: gah | 11:46 |
| timeless_mbp | i specifically asked if that was supported | 11:46 |
| timeless_mbp | everyone said no | 11:46 |
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| * timeless_mbp kicks everyone and gives suihkulokki a hug | 11:46 | |
| suihkulokki | because nobody reads the manpages ? :) | 11:46 |
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| * timeless_mbp frowns | 11:48 | |
| suihkulokki | woglinde: the versioning stuff is handled by dpkg-gencontrol, read the the manpage :) | 11:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: ok | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | so um | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | i tried it , and it doesn't seem to like me | 11:49 |
| inz | Surely different binaries from one source is possible, not pretty, but possible | 11:49 |
| woglinde | okay | 11:50 |
| inz | ~s/binaries/binary versions/ | 11:50 |
| woglinde | so you have to override gencontrol too | 11:50 |
| woglinde | but than you dont need dh_installchangelogs I think | 11:50 |
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| Lynoure | Is there a pdf reader that would both support zoom and keep the view area between the page changes? (without that, reading pdf ebooks is a pain, as one gets either tiny text or hefty marginals) | 11:54 |
| timeless_mbp | Lynoure: i wish | 11:55 |
| timeless_mbp | please lemme know when you find one | 11:55 |
| timeless_mbp | what you mostly want btw, is not that | 11:55 |
| timeless_mbp | but an "ignore margins feature" | 11:55 |
| Lynoure | No specific feature needed, just "respect my sideways scrolling and don't reset it" | 11:57 |
| Lynoure | Evince for N800 was sufficient | 11:57 |
| Corsac | hmhm, evince still does that on my desktop, did it change in n900? | 11:58 |
| Corsac | or maybe evince has not yet been ported to fremantle? | 11:58 |
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| Lynoure | Corsac: no Evince for N900 yet | 12:03 |
| Corsac | ok | 12:03 |
| Lynoure | I guess I could look into porting it, instead of being a whiner =) | 12:03 |
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| woglinde | hm is there a way to say sdk+ please run this command not with qemu and use the i386 one? | 12:12 |
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| melmoth | i m installing the maemo5 sdk, looks i used "sudo ./maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0beta2.sh –u user" but it looks like the script did not add user in the sbox group | 12:18 |
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| melmoth | nor did it create the scratchbox home directory | 12:18 |
| melmoth | any idea how i should proceed ? | 12:18 |
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| melmoth | let s try "sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser user" | 12:23 |
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| lardman | morning | 12:33 |
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| woglinde | hi lardman | 12:35 |
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| melmoth | GRmblblb, now i have the infamous Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org' | 12:39 |
| lardman | hi woglinde | 12:40 |
| melmoth | my /etc/scratchbox/resolv.conf is the same as the host /etc/resolv.conf | 12:40 |
| woglinde | melmoth hm | 12:40 |
| woglinde | I use sdk+ | 12:40 |
| woglinde | there I can solve the problems easy | 12:40 |
| melmoth | i use http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_2_sdk_installation/ | 12:41 |
| melmoth | what is sdk+ ? | 12:41 |
| woglinde | *g* | 12:41 |
| melmoth | the funny thing is, it works ok in armel target | 12:41 |
| melmoth | grumble, my /etc/resolv.conf file within the i386 target was wrong | 12:43 |
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| melmoth | this thing is hitting me every time since , 2007. And each time, it s another file wich is wrong | 12:43 |
| Jaffa | melmoth: "SDK+" is the Scratchbox 2-based SDK. | 12:46 |
| lardman | My N900 went from 1/2 charge to dead overnight and therefore my alarm clock didn't go off, slightly worrying | 12:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: have you grabbed my updated package? :) | 12:47 |
| X-Fade | lardman: What? You don't charge at night? :) | 12:47 |
| melmoth | Jaffa: where can i find it ? | 12:47 |
| ifreq | lardman: sure you didnt have any internet app on? | 12:47 |
| melmoth | Pfffft, and now there is no af-sb-init.sh . | 12:47 |
| lardman | X-Fade: had the charger in another room | 12:48 |
| melmoth | the maemo5 beta sdk is really , well, beta... not cooked enough | 12:48 |
| ifreq | add some spices | 12:48 |
| lardman | ifreq: not that I know of, but I must check and see if somehoe autoconnect has been enabled | 12:48 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: check for misbehaving applets or apps that were open? | 12:48 |
| hrw | morning | 12:48 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Updated package? | 12:49 |
| timeless_mbp | correct package name, working applet | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | (well "app") | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | app has more features | 12:50 |
| * Jaffa has no idea what you're talking about... :) | 12:50 | |
| timeless_mbp | oh! | 12:50 |
| Jaffa | lardman: My N900 is on charge almost all the time. Wouldn't trust it as an alarm clock if it wasn't | 12:50 |
| melmoth | af-sb-init scrpit is in armel target, but fails with .... qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - core dumped | 12:51 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Got woken up by a N900 which was turned off and was in a room downstairs today ;) | 12:51 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Alarm turned it on nicely. | 12:52 |
| lardman | hi hrw | 12:52 |
| lardman | X-Fade: yeah will do | 12:53 |
| hrw | question: does maemo5 finally contain all packages to build packages on device? | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: my calendar's silent brightness change woke me up at times | 12:53 |
| woglinde | hi hrw | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | at least in AMS | 12:53 |
| lardman | hrw: building on-device is being done | 12:53 |
| hrw | lardman: great | 12:54 |
| Jaffa | hrw: What, out of the box? No, of course not. However, you can install SDK packages on Maemo 4 or Maemo 5, AFAIK | 12:54 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: blinking? | 12:54 |
| lardman | keesj: were you talking about building-on device and putting together some details, etc? | 12:54 |
| timeless_mbp | no, just brightness | 12:54 |
| timeless_mbp | the screen went from off to bright | 12:54 |
| cosmo | hello, anyone using idle irc plugin for fremantle? | 12:54 |
| timeless_mbp | and that was sufficient to wake me :o | 12:54 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: Wow, you must be a very light sleeper then. | 12:55 |
| zerojay | cosmo: No one is because it does not work. | 12:56 |
| lardman | anyone know how to upload video to ovi from the N900? | 12:56 |
| cosmo | zerojay: well, i got it online and i can /msg to my device | 12:56 |
| cosmo | i was just wondering if it's possible to make it join a channel | 12:57 |
| zerojay | cosmo: Nope. | 12:57 |
| cosmo | or do anything else than just send/receive msg's | 12:57 |
| zerojay | Nope. | 12:57 |
| X-Fade | lardman: play in mediaplayer. hit video, click on share icon in lower left? | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: you should be able to select the movie and use share | 12:57 |
| zerojay | cosmo: The UI for multiuser chat was apparently removed in Maemo 5. | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | once you have added ovi to your sharing accounts | 12:57 |
| lardman | X-Fade: I thought it would be somewhere, just cuoldn't work out where | 12:57 |
| lardman | thanks | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | is share in the lower left? | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | oh right, the idiots couldn't keep the buttons in consistent locations across not more than 3 apps :) | 12:58 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: yeah, that share icon is really weird. | 12:58 |
| cosmo | zerojay: maybe it could be hacked to do some more tricks | 12:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | cosmo: i don't recall strings for that stuff | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | so hacking it would involve translating it | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | at which point you effectively need a new app | 12:59 |
| zerojay | cosmo: There's way more to it than that. | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | and since the maemo apps really aren't that great | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | you might as well start elsewhere | 12:59 |
| zerojay | The ball's in Collabora's court. | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | maemo apps have 2 features: some attempt at small screen/fingerable + some attempts at power conservation | 13:00 |
| cosmo | well, ok.. the messaging seems to work pretty well though | 13:00 |
| cosmo | is there any way to send msg from maemo to random irc user? | 13:01 |
| zerojay | Nope. | 13:01 |
| cosmo | too bad. well integrated irc client would be a killer app | 13:02 |
| zerojay | idle in Maemo 5 has really suffered compared to Maemo 4. | 13:02 |
| zerojay | Just use Xchat, I guess. | 13:02 |
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| Robot101 | cosmo, zerojay: actually, we've hacked the official UI to do multi-user chat, we just need to convince rtcom team to ship it as an easter egg :D | 13:04 |
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| zerojay | Robot101: I knew you guys would come up with a solution at some point. | 13:05 |
| cosmo | i never found idle on maemo 4 | 13:05 |
| zerojay | It was part of RTCOMM. | 13:06 |
| cosmo | but i'd like to have some "always on" irc solution and use xchat when i really want to do irc | 13:06 |
| cosmo | does irc eat battery quickly? it at least used to have mandatory ping/pong's in protocol | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | Robot101: interesting | 13:07 |
| * timeless_mbp goes hunting | 13:07 | |
| cosmo | i wrote the first irc client to nokia 9500 years ago, dunno if the protocol is smarter nowadays | 13:07 |
| zerojay | cosmo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zerojay/3878795833/ - IRC through RTCOMM on Maemo 4. | 13:07 |
| Robot101 | cosmo: IRC is in no way smart | 13:07 |
| zerojay | cosmo: If IRC used battery quick, I've never noticed it. | 13:08 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 13:08 | |
| * timeless_mbp will definitely need to show a progress indicator | 13:08 | |
| cosmo | iirc it had mandatory ping/pong messages with server every minute or so. i think it would eat battery.. | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | 3mins is the typical timeout | 13:09 |
| argontus_ | depends on the server I guess but ping/pong happens about once per minute | 13:09 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: timeout != ping | 13:09 |
| zerojay | Sending one small packet shouldn't really take up that much battery, really. | 13:09 |
| timeless_mbp | which means you can get away w/ 150s | 13:09 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: freenode timesout at 5 min IIRC | 13:09 |
| SpeedEvil | but, it pings every 30s | 13:09 |
| X-Fade | Once a minute really shouldn't kill your pattery. | 13:09 |
| timeless_mbp | zerojay: waking up the radio is incredibly expensive | 13:09 |
| *** argontus_ is now known as argontus | 13:09 | |
| timeless_mbp | so much so that we have idiots coming and asking us to break the browser | 13:09 |
| X-Fade | Wow, where did that p come from ;) | 13:09 |
| timeless_mbp | "hi, please break the browser" | 13:10 |
| zerojay | timeless_mbp: Well, if it was, I've never once noticed a battery life hit and I was on IRC all the time. | 13:10 |
| SpeedEvil | break? | 13:10 |
| timeless_mbp | "in some extremely deformed test for an impossible edge case, the browser can be harmful if the user takes their device to an incredibly stupid web service" | 13:10 |
| timeless_mbp | "we'd like you to increase the per minute cost for users in countries that are charged by the bit" | 13:11 |
| woglinde | args | 13:11 |
| woglinde | where are the findutils | 13:11 |
| timeless_mbp | this was not the way they worded it | 13:11 |
| timeless_mbp | but these were the results | 13:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I personally want the browser to always freeze if I'm not looking at it. | 13:11 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: even if it's the active app? | 13:11 |
| zerojay | Fuck that. | 13:11 |
| timeless_mbp | we need to install eye monitoring hardware? | 13:11 |
| zerojay | Browser freeze means you aren't multitasking anymore. What's the point of that? | 13:12 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: well - I mean of course if it's offscreen | 13:12 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: ok, so you don't want to support irc over web in the background | 13:12 |
| SpeedEvil | zerojay: maybe configurable across websites. | 13:12 |
| timeless_mbp | and you don't want to support internet radio in the web browser in the background | 13:12 |
| timeless_mbp | or just listening to a youtube broadcast while you do something else | 13:12 |
| SpeedEvil | zerojay: 99.999% of websites I don't care about the flash/.... content continue to work in background. | 13:12 |
| timeless_mbp | sadly, we've got a pref for you | 13:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | it might even be on by default | 13:13 |
| timeless_mbp | and yes, it's user facing | 13:13 |
| zerojay | I don't want the browser to stop loading a webpage because I switched apps. | 13:13 |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 13:13 | |
| SpeedEvil | zerojay: not quite that aggressive - continue loading, just don't animate | 13:13 |
| zerojay | That's like seeing commercials come on TV, switching channels to watch something else for a while and coming back to see the commercial paused and waiting for you. | 13:13 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: you act like we actively paint while we're hidden | 13:14 |
| zerojay | It already pisses me off enough that the media player app doesn't update when it's not active. | 13:14 |
| timeless_mbp | we definitely like to paint when you can see us in the task switcher | 13:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | it means you can watch a thumbnail of a youtube video :) | 13:14 |
| zerojay | Can't watch a thumbnail of a local video though. | 13:15 |
| zerojay | Even though it clearly shows that going on in Nokia's marketing vids. | 13:15 |
| timeless_mbp | it did? | 13:15 |
| zerojay | Yes, it did. | 13:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Personally regrettably I - if I was to purchase one - would be on quite limited bandwidth. So I'd like to be able to stop websites doing stuff in the background. | 13:16 |
| timeless_mbp | "oops" | 13:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: as i said, we have a user facing pref for this | 13:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | I don't see the 'it causes users more cost' | 13:16 |
| zerojay | And while I'm bitching, why is it that if the screen is off and I touch the screen to bring it back on, ONLY Maemo Browser sees and accepts the click instead of just lighting up first and waiting for the next click? | 13:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I was trying to argue that. | 13:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | I've just woken up | 13:16 |
| zerojay | I end up clicking on links accidentally all the time in browser because of it. | 13:17 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: this is different | 13:17 |
| zerojay | No other app has this issue. | 13:17 |
| X-Fade | zerojay: Yeah indeed, I noticed that too. | 13:17 |
| timeless_mbp | this was a demand from modem power monitors to break network connections aggressively | 13:17 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 13:17 |
| X-Fade | zerojay: Annoys me a lot ;) | 13:17 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: like keep-alive http | 13:17 |
| timeless_mbp | and if you send a break signal, and then later send a new connect signal | 13:17 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: yep | 13:17 |
| timeless_mbp | you've sent more data | 13:17 |
| timeless_mbp | and if you're charged for the data | 13:17 |
| zerojay | Yeah, it's these small issues that bug me... stuff I wish I could have been on the inside to help fix before it got out into the wild. | 13:18 |
| timeless_mbp | then you're paying for something that well... | 13:18 |
| timeless_mbp | zerojay: fix which, the marketing video? | 13:18 |
| * SpeedEvil is currently trying to do a web-hypercompressor. Fun. | 13:18 | |
| timeless_mbp | the marketing team didn't even give me enough time to point out their bugs | 13:18 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: i'm quite happy w/ SkyFire on my S60 phones | 13:18 |
| zerojay | timeless_mbp: No, all the random small things that I end up seeing all over the place that almost no one else ever notices. | 13:18 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: opensource? | 13:19 |
| timeless_mbp | it's built on gecko, does that count? | 13:19 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: dunno - I'm looking for a generic http proxy that does differential rsync-like transfers between a device cache, and a servers copy of it. | 13:20 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: preliminary indications are very good on compression. | 13:20 |
| timeless_mbp | so... | 13:20 |
| timeless_mbp | the browser doesn't have any disk cache | 13:20 |
| timeless_mbp | if you want to give your system a nice win | 13:20 |
| timeless_mbp | get a browser that has one ... | 13:21 |
| * timeless_mbp kicks someone | 13:21 | |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: the question is, what kind of sites are you visiting? | 13:21 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: This is a http proxy - it has a ~50M disk cache - say on the device. It has a copy of this cache on the proxy server. Any downloaded page is served as diffs between the local cache - if it'd help. | 13:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | timeless: ebay, youtube, slashdot, newspaper websites, ... | 13:22 |
| timeless_mbp | twitter? | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, graphics are a seperate issue | 13:22 |
| timeless_mbp | graphics aren't that interesting | 13:22 |
| timeless_mbp | what's interesting is sites that update a lot | 13:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | or that rely on AJAX | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Yes, that's the specific use-case. | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | ebay.com - hit up the frontpage. It's ~100k. | 13:23 |
| SpeedEvil | It varies on most loads. | 13:23 |
| SpeedEvil | The actual varying content is ~0.5K most times | 13:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | a compressed diff of the page gets really quite small, well over an order of magnitude better than simply gzipping. | 13:23 |
| zerojay | Not a bad idea, but honestly sounds a bit scary. | 13:24 |
| hrw | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=351020#post351020 | 13:24 |
| SpeedEvil | zerojay: It basically means you give your entire history to the proxy server. Initially, this is just for personal use. | 13:24 |
| zerojay | hrw: Okay... so...? | 13:24 |
| nnod | i'm trying to package a python program using dpkg-buildpackage, but the resulting .deb installs to /scratchbox/tools/ rather than /, can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong? | 13:25 |
| hrw | zerojay: wrong window,sorry | 13:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Another big win is ebay/auction1 - if you go to ebay/auction2 - a _lot_ of text in the page is identical, and if you can diff auction2 from auction1... | 13:25 |
| hrw | SpeedEvil: what I would like to see is gzipped imap server+client | 13:26 |
| SpeedEvil | hrw: The same principle would be plausible to implement - but I'm doing http first | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, nokia messaging does something | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | it basically doesn't use pop/imap for client to proxy | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | not sure what it does use | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'm pretty sure i don't want to know | 13:28 |
| ifreq | is there a httpd +wiki template for maemo based machines? (dreaming of mini wiki server) | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | but would you trust nokia messaging w/ the password for your mailbox? | 13:28 |
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| hrw | nokia messaging... I tried that on S60 phone and switched to other client | 13:29 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: my initial use-case for this compressor is running on my neo1973 phone, and my desktop at home. So any privacy concerns don't occur. | 13:29 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: as I'll even be snooping https | 13:29 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 13:30 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok, i need someone w/ some scripting knowledge | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i need someone to figure out why my locale browser isn't working | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | (properly) | 13:32 |
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| andre__ | i don't get it. czech hardware keyboard layout lets you enter all diacritical letters without using onscreen palette. polish hardware keyboard layout does not let you enter a single diacritical letter without using onscreen palette. FAIL. | 13:39 |
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| RST38h | hrw: The Maemo version is really really cool | 13:40 |
| RST38h | Andre: please note that if you have got US hardware keyboar dyou cannot even change to any of these with Ctrl+Space | 13:40 |
| andre__ | RST38h, i know :-( see the bug report about it... | 13:41 |
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| RST38h | Yea, was surprised to find that it exists since Maemo4, actually | 13:41 |
| andre__ | somebody should be fired for the polish keyboard layout.... grrr | 13:41 |
| RST38h | It is actually one of things that have a good enough chance of being fixed as long as you supply new layout file to the report | 13:42 |
| RST38h | At least the brain damaged Russian layout has been fixed | 13:42 |
| andre__ | oh really? haven't tried yet | 13:42 |
| RST38h | andre: Have to find a Pole at Maemo team to drive this though | 13:43 |
| andre__ | i know some, but not in this area, more like browser :-/ | 13:43 |
| lbt_ | ouch | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: install my package again :) | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: the key layouts were picked | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a rumor of a chance they might shift | 13:44 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, no idea what you refer to | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | but the hardware layout is printed | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | you can't change it | 13:44 |
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| RST38h | well, I mean the virtual layout | 13:44 |
| lbt_ | nnod: you're in the right place :) | 13:44 |
| RST38h | physical you can't do much, yes | 13:44 |
| lbt_ | nnod: keep an eye out for jeremiah - he may know. Also I think this may have come up last night so you may want to check the logs... | 13:46 |
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| hrw | andre__: there are few Polish people interested in fixing it | 13:49 |
| andre__ | feel free to vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5479 | 13:50 |
| hrw | RST38h: is it able to display 10 mails on one screen (in a list view)? | 13:50 |
| hrw | andre__: will do | 13:50 |
| hrw | andre__: no n900 here anyway | 13:50 |
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| jeremiah | lbt: pong | 13:54 |
| jeremiah | timeless: pong | 13:54 |
| lbt | jeremiah hi.... I have lots of things for you :) | 13:54 |
| lbt | If only I could remember.... | 13:54 |
| lbt | One of them was helping to package OBS itself | 13:55 |
| frals | anyone with a device able to confirm if its possible to add more than one APN for 3g/gprs? or is it still limited to one? | 13:55 |
| lbt | frals: how? | 13:55 |
| frals | should be somewhere under connectivity or something? | 13:55 |
| ifreq | frals: mayb doing different connection profiles? | 13:56 |
| ifreq | different/separata | 13:56 |
| ifreq | dunno how it do work in n900 | 13:56 |
| frals | i have no idea, and cant explore it since those settings arent in the sdk (as far as i can tell anyway) | 13:57 |
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| Jaffa | frals: The UI only lets you add one packet data connection | 14:02 |
| Jaffa | frals: I *think* gconf will let you have multiple, though | 14:02 |
| frals | okey cool, thanks | 14:02 |
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| jeremiah | lbt: heh | 14:09 |
| hrw | n900 charge question: it does charge by microusb but charger ends with uUSB plug or 2mm->uUSB adapter is used? | 14:09 |
| hrw | and how much mA n900 charger has? | 14:09 |
| jeremiah | lbt: It would be kinda cool to have an OBS on the maemo infrastructure some where | 14:09 |
| jeremiah | lbt: But I think we have to wait for the move to the new ISP | 14:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | hrw: the included charger ends with microUSB, but there is a circular->microUSB adaptor too I think | 14:11 |
| pancake | i have installed the maemo sdk, but inside the scratchbox shell i have no apt-get or glib.h | 14:11 |
| pancake | (the maemo5) | 14:11 |
| hrw | SpeedEvil: thx | 14:11 |
| woglinde | pancake sdk+ makes life easier | 14:11 |
| pancake | ? | 14:11 |
| Jaffa | SpeedEvil: A circular->microUSB adapter where? | 14:12 |
| woglinde | pancake google search maemo sdk+ | 14:14 |
| frals | anyone knows if the docs danielwilms mentioned here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=319365#post319365 is the basic telepathy doc or if i have missed the specifics on call/sms | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: please ignore me. I am basing this off something that I saw, I may have misconstrued. | 14:16 |
| pancake | does it supports n900? | 14:16 |
| danielwilms | frals: at the moment it is just the telepathy docs | 14:16 |
| cosmo | at least my n900 come with circular->usb adapter | 14:16 |
| frals | oh, you where in the channel :) | 14:16 |
| zerojay | I didn't get anything but a broken European charger that doesn't work with the N900 anyways. lol | 14:17 |
| danielwilms | frals: we are a bit delayed with that part of the documentation ;) | 14:17 |
| Robot101 | the extra APIs for maemo are in http://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=rtcom-telepathy-glib.git;a=summary | 14:17 |
| pancake | woglinde: only for ubuntu/debian ? | 14:17 |
| frals | figured as much - any eta at all or "when its done"? :) | 14:17 |
| woglinde | pancake hm fremantle5.0beta1_armel For OS2009Beta1 (armel SDK) 2009-04-28 (248.8M) | 14:17 |
| danielwilms | Robot101: thx...but there should be some additional docu soon | 14:18 |
| frals | Robot101: thanks | 14:18 |
| woglinde | pancake dont know I only use ubuntu or debian | 14:18 |
| Robot101 | danielwilms: from the telepathy book? or some more stuff? | 14:18 |
| pancake | ah | 14:18 |
| pancake | there's a standalone installer | 14:18 |
| pancake | in python | 14:19 |
| pancake | will try that | 14:19 |
| Robot101 | nobody spoke to us in rtcom about documentation - the abook team wrote some stuff for their library though | 14:19 |
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| jeremiah | lbt: Does it have anything to do with that backlogged task? | 14:19 |
| danielwilms | Robot101 let me check that | 14:20 |
| jeremiah | The one that popped up on mer chatter saying improve QA checking? | 14:20 |
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| nnod | lbt: thanks | 14:21 |
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| Robot101 | danielwilms: we have http://people.collabora.co.uk/~danni/telepathy-book/ | 14:21 |
| Robot101 | danielwilms: its a nice start but needs more work and examples | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | The emitters of the oscillator transistors are connected to ground, the collectors to 100R resistors to +, the bases to 10K resistors to +, and the capacitors are connected from the emitter of one transistor to the base of the other. | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | argh | 14:21 |
| Robot101 | danielwilms: would be good to pool any resources on docs in the same direction | 14:21 |
| pancake | Failed to get distribution information.. haha | 14:22 |
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| danielwilms | Robot101 ok...I have to check that and get some more information...now I'm not completely sure ;) | 14:23 |
| hrw | cosmo: so how much mA does n900 charger has? | 14:23 |
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| Robot101 | danielwilms: cool feel free to ping if you have any questions | 14:23 |
| X-Fade | cosmo: 1200 | 14:23 |
| X-Fade | ehm hrw ;) | 14:23 |
| pancake | haha | 14:23 |
| pancake | obnly supported ones are debian+ubuntu | 14:23 |
| hrw | X-Fade: thx | 14:23 |
| danielwilms | Robot101 will do | 14:24 |
| pancake | the standalone script relies on deb/ubu... it sucks | 14:24 |
| woglinde | pancake hm okay sorry | 14:24 |
| hrw | thux: so more powerfull then mine 800mA one | 14:24 |
| cosmo | my charger is at home | 14:24 |
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| wazd | heya maemo | 14:27 |
| frals | lo o/ | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | lo wazd | 14:30 |
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| woglinde | hi wazd | 14:31 |
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| nnod | i'm trying to package a python program using dpkg-buildpackage, but the resulting .deb installs to /scratchbox/tools/ rather than /, can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong? | 14:36 |
| lizardo | nnod: you need to modify your packaging to call python2.5 explicitely | 14:36 |
| lizardo | nnod: otherwise it will call "python" which in turn will call the Scratchbox's internal python (2.3) | 14:36 |
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| nnod | lizardo: thanks, will try that | 14:37 |
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| nnod | lizardo: that was the problem, changing python to python2.5 in the Makefile fixed it | 14:39 |
| nnod | lizardo: thanks! | 14:39 |
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| lizardo | nnod: :) good to know if you have python specific issues, feel free also to ask on the pymaemo-developers mailing list: https://garage.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/pymaemo-developers/ | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: hrw: Still it's highly obscure *how* charging is actually done. The 1200mA might not be a mandatory capability of charger | 14:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and it seems this and the USB-hostmode topic is still work in progress | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably both closely related | 14:45 |
| mgedmin | well USB charging from laptops is not guaranteed to provide 1200mA | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | 500mA is max | 14:45 |
| mgedmin | in other news, my nokia 6600 can be charged via its microUSB port, yay, I can use the same charger for both | 14:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's highly unlikely you see 1200mA from a PC usbhost | 14:46 |
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| SpComb | charged via its microSD port | 14:46 |
| mgedmin | although the slim nokia charger socket is more accessible than the break-your-nails-cover-covered microusb | 14:46 |
| guysoft42 | did anyone here manage to compile a wireless module for the Nokia N810? i wanted to connect an external USB | 14:46 |
| guysoft42 | i tried compiling rt73usb, but it seems that they moved on to 2.6.27 kernels | 14:46 |
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| nnod | has anyone tested the n900 with a mintyboost charger yet? | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | nnod: not with mintyboost, but with Openmoko Freerunner ;-P | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | nnod: didn't work out that smooth | 14:48 |
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| nnod | DocScrutinizer: you mean charging the n900 from the freerunner? | 14:49 |
| mgedmin | I love how "ten oldest open enhancements" list in the bug jar has entries saying "(new this week)" | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | the question is: Does N900 follow the Nokiacharger / USB2.0- charger supplement scheme, which requires a arther "soft" PSU that drops voltage on increasing curent. Or does N900 simply try to draw whatever current from USB-VBUS unconditionally and assuming a "hard" PSU that is supposed to cope with max current the N900 ay ask for | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | nnod: yep, charging N900 from FR | 14:52 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, there's a MicroUSB charging specification. Might have clues | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | FR is a "hard" PSU with 500mA max | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: [2009-10-19 13:51:45] <DocScrutinizer> the question is: Does N900 follow the Nokiacharger / USB2.0- charger supplement scheme | 14:52 |
| nnod | wow, must be a big drain on the battery | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: USB2.0- charger supplement == MicroUSB charging specification | 14:53 |
| hrw | lcuk: alive? | 14:53 |
| ShadowJK | I know someone made their freerunner extremely hot when they used it to charge N900 ;-) | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's what I referred to | 14:54 |
| suihkulokki | DocScrutinizer: I don't think anyone knowing that stuff idles on irc, you might try maemo-devel for better luck | 14:54 |
| suihkulokki | maemo-devel mailing list, that is | 14:54 |
| Corsac | how much current can an usb port supply? | 14:54 |
| ShadowJK | Corsac, 500mA | 14:54 |
| Corsac | ok | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Corsac: it's a complex subject. | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | suihkulokki: thanks a lot | 14:55 |
| Corsac | so with 7 usb port one could charge a touchbook | 14:55 |
| * Corsac hides | 14:55 | |
| SpeedEvil | Corsac: The normal USB port is specified to provide 500mA | 14:55 |
| ShadowJK | Corsac, only if the USB hub has a powersupply capable of it | 14:55 |
| suihkulokki | but: also, when n900 is in the market, it will be usb certified, including ensuring it adheres to all requirements of usb charging spec | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Corsac: but it may in practice supply more. | 14:55 |
| Corsac | yeah, 7 independant usb port | 14:55 |
| hrw | Corsac: USB spec says that host usb port should give 100mA and can give 500mA. It is also possible to give any amount in 0-500mA range | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Not quite - the device declares it uses so much current - and the host enables it or not depending on if the total of current is under 500mA. | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Tehre is not typically any measurement or regulation of current | 14:56 |
| koala_man | can the N900 work as a usb host? | 14:57 |
| ShadowJK | koala_man, current information: no | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: the "better" host PHY chips do meassurement | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | The port will simply turn off at some current over 500mA if overloaded. (where some current may be 0.55A or 2A, depending on stuff) | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | yes - it's increasing | 14:57 |
| * suihkulokki has seen usb hubs that feed electricity towards the host pc too, so with cheap hubs anything goes, it seems.. | 14:57 | |
| DocScrutinizer | every PHY has to do OC prot | 14:57 |
| cosmo | koala_man: i think i saw the usb mode changer in repository.. i guess it's like in previous maemo devices | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (will simply) exactly | 14:58 |
| koala_man | I don't know how it is in previous maemo devices :O | 14:58 |
| ShadowJK | suihkulokki, those are funny "Hey, how come the fan on my video card spins even when my computer is off?" | 14:58 |
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| lcuk | hrw, yeah | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | suihkulokki: that's really nasty | 14:59 |
| mgedmin | cosmo: the existence of software doesn't imply that it actually works | 14:59 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, it's the battle of the PSUs, the weaker PSU goes up in smoke eventually :-) | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | suihkulokki: though great for FR which can use this to charge in hostmode even | 14:59 |
| mgedmin | it could be a straight recompile of a program that tries to poke values into a file in /sys | 14:59 |
| hrw | lcuk: query read please | 14:59 |
| suihkulokki | ShadowJK: or "Hey how come the sheevaplug still works over ssh when in plugged it of the wall" | 14:59 |
| mgedmin | no guarantees that that /sys file actually exists in maemo 5's kernel | 14:59 |
| ShadowJK | suihkulokki, my NSLU2 did that :-) | 15:00 |
| ShadowJK | but then the HUBs PSU died :-( | 15:00 |
| lcuk | read what hrw | 15:00 |
| lcuk | ahh | 15:00 |
| suihkulokki | ShadowJK: I wonder why.. :P | 15:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | sp3000: so, i found my problem :) | 15:03 |
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| cosmo | mgedmin: true. but i doubt no-one would release it in the repos if it wouldn't work at all | 15:06 |
| mgedmin | cosmo: people release it to the repos so they (or somebody else) can install it and see whether it works or not | 15:07 |
| mgedmin | I haven't heard anybody report "hey, usb host works!" yet | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I think there are some N900-owners around here to do that | 15:07 |
| mgedmin | so far I've heard "we've been told it doesn't; maybe, just maybe, you could hack something with an external usb power injector etc." | 15:07 |
| mgedmin | like with 770 | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | (check sysfs, try switching usb-mode) | 15:08 |
| cosmo | well, i have a n900 but no usb cable to test with here | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: exactly | 15:08 |
| mihu | On my N900, I usually just turn on screen lock , I don't use the lock function that locks it with a number. I don't have a watch, so for checking time and date, I just push the power button on the top, then the device powers up and shows the time and date, along with the "slider" widget to actually unlock the screen. | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: But you know that the number of people with a voltmeter, or the knowledge to do cables, and ... | 15:08 |
| mihu | For me, it's annoying that I cannot turn off the device with a single press on the power button again. So either I have to really unlock the device with the slider widget, then press the power button and select lock again. Or I have to wait for 5 seconds on the slider screen, then it turns off automatically. | 15:08 |
| mihu | Of course there is the danger, that presses on the touchscreen will keep it alive afterwards. Does anybody find this annoying as well? | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | and the interest is tiny | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: a shame :-S | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 15:09 |
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| mgedmin | mihu: no; I just wait 5 seconds | 15:10 |
| RurouniJones | How does one set the font size for a gtk.label using python? | 15:11 |
| ShadowJK | re usb host, there's also some drivers on t.m.o. waiting for testers | 15:11 |
| mgedmin | mihu: you can wiggle the side-slider twice | 15:11 |
| * timeless_mbp rotfl | 15:11 | |
| timeless_mbp | HAL is obsolete? | 15:11 |
| mgedmin | not side slider; how do you call that springy thingy on the side? lock switch, that's what | 15:11 |
| mgedmin | timeless_mbp: have you missed the DevKit crusade? | 15:12 |
| mgedmin | HAL is out of fashion these days | 15:12 |
| timeless_mbp | i just got the memo! | 15:12 |
| mihu | mgedmin: That's interesing, yes the lock switch works. But I would prefer that the power button just locks the device again. Should be easy to fix, or? | 15:13 |
| * mgedmin shrugs, indicating don't care | 15:13 | |
| timeless_mbp | you want the power button to lock the device? | 15:13 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 15:13 | |
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| timeless_mbp | doesn't make sense :) | 15:13 |
| ShadowJK | what was wrong with hal? let me guess, not enough xml? | 15:14 |
| lcuk | it wouldnt open the SIM bay doors | 15:14 |
| mihu | timeless_mbp: Nope, please re-read my initial post. Device is screen-locked (no number lock) => press power button => device turns on, shows slider => press power button again => nothing. IMO it should just send the device back to screen-lock. | 15:14 |
| timeless_mbp | dunno, my memo just said that hal wasn't expressive enough for networking from some platforms | 15:14 |
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| nnod | lizardo: now i remember why i changed python2.5 to python in the Makefile the first place, autobuilder fails because it can't find python2.5. any ideas? | 15:15 |
| timeless_mbp | mihu: so if the device is screen locked | 15:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | and you press and hold the power key, do you expect it to turn off? | 15:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd claim that's unexpected | 15:15 |
| lizardo | nnod: you need to add "python-dev" to Build-Depends, on debian/control | 15:15 |
| timeless_mbp | however, if the screen is on (at device lock) | 15:15 |
| timeless_mbp | then pressing and holding the power key for a while will kill the device | 15:16 |
| timeless_mbp | with your requested behavior, things get really confusing | 15:16 |
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| mihu | timeless_mbp: No, please don't get confused. 8-) Or am I getting confused. I have set my device to german language, so I don't know how it the modes are called in english. Let me switch it to english, one moment. | 15:17 |
| mgedmin | ShadowJK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Halsectomy has a couple of links about why hal is being deprecated | 15:17 |
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| RST38h | Nice choice of the page name | 15:19 |
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| mihu | timeless_mbp: Ok. N900 is up and running => press power button short => "Lock screen and keys". Then: press power button short again "Swipe to unlock" message appears. Now when pressing the power button short again, nothing happens. But I would expect that this would send the N900 to "Lock screen and keys" mode again. Instead I have to wait 5 seconds, or unlock the device and lock it again. | 15:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | stop | 15:20 |
| timeless_mbp | from the swipe to unlock screen | 15:21 |
| timeless_mbp | press and hold the power key for 15s | 15:21 |
| timeless_mbp | does the device turn off? | 15:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that should always work, as I'd expect hat to be a hw feature of the PMU | 15:21 |
| Stskeeps | naah. power key is sw controlled | 15:22 |
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| mihu | timeless_mbp: Yes it does. But this is not what I want. A short press on the power button while in "swipe to unlock" mode, should send the device back to "Lock screen and keys" mode. | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: surely not entirely ;-D | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | if your device is in your pocked and locked | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | do you want press and hold on the power key to kill it? | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: hard to do sw-control when cpu is unpowered | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: yep | 15:23 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: on n8x0 it was like that. | 15:23 |
| mihu | timeless_mbp: My use case is that I don't have a watch. With my other cell phone I do: pull out of pocket, press power button once, look at time & date, press power button again to send it back to sleep, put into pocket again. This does not work with N900. | 15:23 |
| emanuelez | any easy way to install mplayer or vlc on a N900? | 15:24 |
| ShadowJK | mihu, it doesn't STAY locked when you press power button? | 15:24 |
| suihkulokki | mihu: why do you care? just look at the time on the unlock screen and put the phone back in the pocket. | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: it's not any more likely to accidentally press powerbutton for 15sec in your pocket, than to accidentally unlock with slider switch | 15:24 |
| X-Fade | Remember that there is still the proximity sensor. | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | mihu: perfect usecase | 15:24 |
| ShadowJK | Does pressing powerbutton really make it unlock? | 15:25 |
| mihu | suihkulokki: Any contact on the touch screen will keep it in the "swipe to unlock" mode. You have to wait 5 seconds without any touch on the touchscreen. That sucks. | 15:25 |
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| mihu | ShadowJK: No, it does not fully unlock. Just the "swipe to unlock" dialog pops up, which shows the date & time. | 15:26 |
| glass | the swipe to unlock screen doesn't have time/calendar? | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | suihkulokki: that's exactly the problem. Lock screen rarely means the timer-reset for autosuspend on ts-event is disabled | 15:26 |
| glass | ah | 15:26 |
| lcuk | can i divorce my girlfriend | 15:26 |
| suihkulokki | DocScrutinizer: there is no autosuspend | 15:26 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: the slider should be relatively hard to hit | 15:26 |
| timeless_mbp | if it isn't, then it has issues | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | suihkulokki: ack. Sorry was misguided by other less cute devices | 15:27 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: sure, but first you would have to marry her | 15:27 |
| lcuk | of cripes | 15:28 |
| lcuk | oh cripes even | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | suihkulokki: still the basic requirement of lockscreen should not reset any timer on touch-event, remains the same | 15:28 |
| RST38h | lcuk: You can, wed her first, then divorce the next day! | 15:29 |
| mgedmin | I need a second pair of eyes | 15:29 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: at which part of your body? | 15:29 |
| mgedmin | can somebody look at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5553 and say what should be done about the bug? | 15:29 |
| mgedmin | it's not really a bug, just a very very unintuitive "works as designed" "feature" | 15:29 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: interesting | 15:30 |
| mgedmin | I sort of closed it as invalid sort of by accident | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | so... | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd reopen and fix the summary | 15:30 |
| mgedmin | I'm thinking I should create a new enhancement request "provide a dialog for subscribing/unsubscribing to IMAP folders" | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | it should say "no way to manage subscriptions to imap folders" | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | note that you shouldn't specify "dialog" | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: good point | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | that's forcing a decision | 15:30 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: Should not be stated in a way that allows to classify it as enhancement | 15:31 |
| angasuleWork | shucks :( I think my phone provider uses 850/1900 frequencies, which are not compatible with the N900? :( | 15:31 |
| lizardo | nnod: I just noticed that you are trying to upload scrabbledict on Diablo & Chinook right ? | 15:31 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Will still be classified that way, but do not create any opportunities | 15:31 |
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| lizardo | nnod: in this case, it is better to Build-Depend on "python2.5", because "python-dev" only exists in Fremantle | 15:31 |
| mgedmin | just how many different sets of frequencies are there? | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | angasuleWork: N900 is quadband GSM afaik | 15:32 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: "Unable to see unsubscribed IMAP folders in Modest" for a title will do | 15:32 |
| mihu | Thanks everybody for the discussion. I think I will file an enhancement request wrt. to that issue. Any idea into which category I should put it? | 15:32 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: And make sure you mention all the other masil clients that allow this in the comments | 15:32 |
| timeless_mbp | no, don't ask for the ability to view unsubscribed folders | 15:32 |
| angasuleWork | DocScrutinizer: then wikipedia is wrong oh noes, how can that be? :? | 15:32 |
| timeless_mbp | just the ability to manage subscriptions | 15:32 |
| mgedmin | IIRC the n900 supports 4 frequencies for 2G and 3 frequences for 3G, but there are carriers out there who use a different 3G frequency | 15:32 |
| RST38h | that would probably do too | 15:33 |
| RST38h | Although it is somewhat more complicated than it has to be | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | angasuleWork: Quadband-Mobiltelefon für GSM 850/900/1800/1900-Netze/EDGE | 15:33 |
| RST38h | Maybe mentioning that "see" and "access" a folder is two different things is in order | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | UMTS-Netze (WCDMA 900/1700/2100) | 15:33 |
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| RST38h | I.e. clicking on an unsubscribed folder should bring up the dialog requesting if you want a subscription to it | 15:34 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 15:34 |
| timeless_mbp | i can have thousands of unsubscribed folders | 15:34 |
| timeless_mbp | being forced to see all unsubscribed folders all the time would be awful | 15:34 |
| angasuleWork | DocScrutinizer: It will not function on the AT&T Mobility UMTS 3G networks which use the incompatible 850 and 1900 MHz UMTS frequency bands. | 15:35 |
| angasuleWork | DocScrutinizer: those appear to be the same my provider uses, meh | 15:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | angasuleWork: which incompatible 850 and 1900 MHz UMTS frequency bands??? | 15:36 |
| RST38h | Thounsands of unsubscribed folders will be impossible to display even in the subscription dialog | 15:36 |
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| RST38h | So with thousands of folders you are fucked either way | 15:36 |
| mgedmin | hey! two of my photos (the most recent ones) are missing! | 15:36 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Tracker. | 15:36 |
| RST38h | Or you have not taken them. | 15:36 |
| mgedmin | but they were there an hour ago | 15:36 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: not missing, just not indexed yet? | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 15:36 |
| mgedmin | one of them had the wrong thumbnail | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp | a manager that lets me search to select to subscribe is fine | 15:36 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: ugh. | 15:36 |
| mgedmin | interesting bug btw: take photo, look at thumbnail, delete photo, take new photo, it gets the same filename and the thumbnail is not regenerated | 15:37 |
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| mgedmin | I thought maybe my n900 was just slow (because it was horribly horribly slow) | 15:37 |
| mgedmin | (swapping all the time) | 15:37 |
| mgedmin | so I waited, and now I go back and see if the thumbnail was updated -- but the photo isn't there any more | 15:37 |
| jaska | swapping, ouch | 15:37 |
| mgedmin | and neither is the one I took yesterday | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | angasuleWork: Oh I see, you think your provider using UMTS on 850/1900 | 15:37 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: nice | 15:37 |
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| mgedmin | according to the timestamps the file is there in MyDocs/DCIM | 15:38 |
| mgedmin | just the photos app lost track of it | 15:38 |
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| mgedmin | btw two of my older photos have large black squares with dim grey borders instead of thumbnails | 15:38 |
| * mgedmin blames tracker for all the ills | 15:38 | |
| timeless_mbp | good choice :) | 15:38 |
| emanuelez | any easy way to install mplayer or vlc on a N900? | 15:39 |
| X-Fade | emanuelez: apt-get install mplayer | 15:39 |
| mgedmin | mplayer exists in extras-devel | 15:39 |
| zerojay | mplayer's in extras-devel. | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | use ham :) | 15:39 |
| zerojay | kmplayer too. | 15:39 |
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| mgedmin | anybody else *hate* how you get an email notification, click on it, then modest opens and just sits there doing nothing, displaying your account list? I *hate* that | 15:40 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: it doesn't always do that | 15:40 |
| timeless_mbp | it only *usually* does that :) | 15:40 |
| mgedmin | I don't hate it when it doesn't do that ;) | 15:40 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: It opens up to the new e-mail all the time for me. | 15:40 |
| timeless_mbp | if there isn't a bug, please carefully research it (hint: quit the app) | 15:40 |
| X-Fade | Sometimes I do see the new mail. | 15:40 |
| mgedmin | I do hate a bit how when it actually displays the email it has the trash and next/prev buttons disabled | 15:41 |
| timeless_mbp | then file it | 15:41 |
| zerojay | I've never not seen it go directly to the new e-mail. | 15:41 |
| mgedmin | see? the "please carefully research" bit is why I don't file bugs usually | 15:41 |
| mgedmin | I'm supposed to be working now | 15:41 |
| nnod | lizardo: ok, thanks | 15:41 |
| woglinde | emanuelez why you want mplaer when gstreamer with dsp support is there? | 15:41 |
| mgedmin | not filing bugs (or chatting on IRC for that matter) | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | angasuleWork: which provider? which country? | 15:41 |
| angasuleWork | DocScrutinizer: Claro, Argentina | 15:41 |
| mikkov__ | X-Fade: openarena-data is stuck somewhere in importing process http://maemo.org/packages/view/openarena-data/ | 15:41 |
| woglinde | emanuelez mplayer has no dsp support only neon | 15:42 |
| mgedmin | zerojay: it tends to happen when the n900 is busy (many apps, you're actively switching between them instead of waiting etc.) | 15:42 |
| nnod | lizardo: yes, i'm trying to get it through autobuilder | 15:42 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: Not to me. | 15:42 |
| X-Fade | mikkov__: hmm let me see where ;) | 15:42 |
| mgedmin | slow remote imap server may be a prerequisite, hm | 15:42 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: the trick from memory is that there's a difference between having mail open and not open | 15:43 |
| emanuelez | i'm just trying to play an mp4 video taken, funny enough, with an old nokia phone | 15:43 |
| nnod | lizardo: just to clarify, is it Build-Depends on python2.5-dev or python2.5? | 15:43 |
| timeless_mbp | that's the only item i know of that causes a significant difference | 15:43 |
| timeless_mbp | that and maybe getting an alert for multiple messages | 15:43 |
| lizardo | nnod: sorry, it is "python2.5-dev" | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | angasuleWork: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umts#W-CDMA_.28UTRA-FDD.29 might be you're really out of luck then | 15:44 |
| woglinde | emanuelez -> http://felipec.wordpress.com/2009/10/13/new-project-gst-dsp-with-beagleboard-demo-image/ | 15:45 |
| nnod | lizardo: thanks, it's back in the queue... | 15:47 |
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| RST38h | "Amiga Inc and Hyperion Entertainment announced a settlement over ownership and licensing over AmigaOS 4.0 and future versions." | 15:48 |
| * RST38h facepalms, falling to the floor and laughing | 15:48 | |
| lcuk | w00t | 15:48 |
| w00t | you rang? | 15:48 |
| w00t | ;p | 15:48 |
| * lcuk drags his a1200 out of the closet | 15:48 | |
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| lcuk | haha | 15:48 |
| RST38h | This reminds me of a WashPost article about two last Jews in Kabul, fighting over the last Torah scroll... | 15:49 |
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| X-Fade | mikkov__: It was rejected in by the queue manager somehow. Now checking the logs to see why exactly. | 15:52 |
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| X-Fade | mikkov__: Apart for the fact that it is freaking 300MB ;) | 15:53 |
| angasuleWork | DocScrutinizer: poop :( thanks | 15:53 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, optify it! | 15:54 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: I'm guessing mikkov did that ;) | 15:54 |
| lcuk | then why did it fail :P :D | 15:54 |
| X-Fade | lol.. | 15:55 |
| X-Fade | Size mismatch ;) | 15:55 |
| X-Fade | My guess is that the copy took too long.. | 15:55 |
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| X-Fade | mikkov__: Yeah, it failed because it didn't copy the 600MB of files in place in time before the manager ran.. | 15:57 |
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| woglinde | X-Fade uh | 15:58 |
| mikkov__ | lol | 15:58 |
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| fiferboy | mgedmin: Thanks for the patches! | 16:01 |
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| lcuk | hi rkirti \o | 16:02 |
| lcuk | yo woglinde and fiferboy | 16:02 |
| rkirti | 'lo lcuk | 16:02 |
| fiferboy | hey lcuk | 16:02 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 16:02 | |
| timeless_mbp | maemo-launcher died | 16:02 |
| lcuk | hows it goin this mornin | 16:02 |
| lcuk | :( timeless | 16:02 |
| * lcuk grumbles about app manager kinetics | 16:03 | |
| X-Fade | mikkov__: You did optify this monster, right? | 16:03 |
| timeless_mbp | it has kinetics? | 16:03 |
| lcuk | yes! | 16:03 |
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| lcuk | very nicely so | 16:03 |
| timeless_mbp | really? | 16:04 |
| bilboed-pi | anyone using scratchbox on gentoo ~amd64 ? | 16:04 |
| timeless_mbp | how well does it work for 1,000 items/ | 16:04 |
| lcuk | yeah timeless | 16:04 |
| lcuk | lol | 16:04 |
| timeless_mbp | bilboed-pi: try sb2 | 16:04 |
| lcuk | getting to "m" is a bit of a challenge | 16:04 |
| timeless_mbp | scratchbox is generally a pain for 64bit | 16:04 |
| woglinde | bilboed-pi you have to setup 32 bit chroot and sb2 | 16:04 |
| woglinde | and thats funny | 16:05 |
| bilboed-pi | woglinde, timeless_mbp ... why do I have this feeling it'll be easier to just install scratchbox in a vm ? :) | 16:05 |
| woglinde | -> chroot -> chroot and qemu | 16:05 |
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| mgedmin | hi fiferboy | 16:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | bilboed-pi: i just use Mer in VirtualBox | 16:05 |
| timeless_mbp | it's much easier | 16:05 |
| woglinde | bliboed read the doku | 16:05 |
| woglinde | how to setup up | 16:05 |
| bilboed-pi | woglinde, where ? | 16:05 |
| woglinde | I find chroot faster | 16:05 |
| mikkov__ | X-Fade: it uses /opt, yes | 16:06 |
| * lcuk scrolls fiferboy up towards alaska | 16:06 | |
| X-Fade | mikkov__: good ;0 | 16:06 |
| fiferboy | Alaska is very far to the North and West... | 16:06 |
| woglinde | bildoed-pi http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_SDK%2B_installation_on_Debian_(AMD64) | 16:06 |
| mikkov__ | X-Fade: probably should be using MyDocs, but was lazy, as ioquake3 isn't end user ready | 16:06 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, free scrolling | 16:06 |
| woglinde | bildoed-pi is your task how to get a debian chroot under gentoo | 16:07 |
| X-Fade | mikkov__: No it still has some issues. | 16:07 |
| fiferboy | I should have just scrolled to Amsterdam | 16:07 |
| lcuk | panning is allowed | 16:07 |
| lcuk | but it stops after each page | 16:07 |
| lcuk | so you have to get a bit way on the way | 16:07 |
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| mikkov__ | X-Fade: I think it needs 600 MB free space on /home to install it :) | 16:08 |
| X-Fade | mikkov__: Nice proof of concept, but not really practical. | 16:09 |
| lizardo | nnod: you are putting the "Build-Depends" field on the wrong place in debian/control :) | 16:09 |
| lizardo | nnod: it should be on the first "paragraph", where you see: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5) | 16:09 |
| timeless_mbp | lizardo: hey, i did that :) | 16:09 |
| lizardo | nnod: change it to : Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), python2.5-dev | 16:10 |
| mikkov__ | X-Fade: if ioquake is ever good enough I'll change it to use MyDocs | 16:10 |
| lcuk | should an app package be installing anything at all to MyDocs | 16:10 |
| * mgedmin thinks 2 gigs in home (aka /opt) ought to be enough for quake and all the other apps | 16:10 | |
| X-Fade | mikkov__: Please ping me when you do that, so I can clean up the repo. | 16:11 |
| * mgedmin wishes his root partition weren't filled up to bursting already | 16:11 | |
| mikkov__ | X-Fade: I won't be doing anything for it. Just would like to see it extras-devel | 16:12 |
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| X-Fade | nnod: How about only uploading for one arch until it actually builds? | 16:15 |
| * timeless_mbp kicks Disconnect | 16:15 | |
| timeless_mbp | evil :) | 16:15 |
| X-Fade | nnod: Your now spamming the list on all archs :) | 16:15 |
| X-Fade | s/Your/You are/ | 16:16 |
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| infobot | X-Fade meant: nnod: You are now spamming the list on all archs :) | 16:16 |
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| lcuk | mornin qwerty12_N810 | 16:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hullo, lcuk | 16:26 |
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| hrw | hi qwerty12_N810 | 16:27 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Hiya, hrw. Got your eyes set on N900 emulation? :p | 16:28 |
| hrw | qwerty12_N810: no, played a bit with real one (not mine) | 16:28 |
| hrw | qwerty12_N810: if I would get Quim mail day before I would play more | 16:28 |
| qwerty12_N810 | :) | 16:28 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | My one is acting up, actually | 16:29 |
| lcuk | :( q | 16:30 |
| lcuk | whats up with it | 16:30 |
| penguinbait | did you file a bug? | 16:30 |
| lcuk | hiya pb | 16:30 |
| penguinbait | hey lcuk | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | council mailing list is council@maemo.org btw/ | 16:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Seems to be loading a shitton of processes upon startup and the file manager is messing me around | 16:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Just gonna reflash and be done with it | 16:31 |
| penguinbait | council mailing? | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | well if i am to mail council :) | 16:32 |
| penguinbait | yes, thats correct | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | k | 16:32 |
| hrw | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/10/19/nokia-n900-discount/ | 16:32 |
| Shapeshifter | lol the 'did your n900 ship today' thread is a laugh | 16:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Shapeshifter: I had some fun in that thread and was told to kill myself... | 16:33 |
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| Shapeshifter | people can really get worked up. especially about "mid september". I've always read mid-october >:> | 16:34 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | hrw: You're certainly deserving of the discount. Whether you actually want it is another matter... | 16:34 |
| RST38h | Marcin, you are getting your N900 no matter what =) | 16:34 |
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| Shapeshifter | and you always have to add at least one months to any release date | 16:34 |
| Shapeshifter | so I'm expecting it mid novermber. | 16:35 |
| ShadowJK | besides, it's the usual staggered style :) | 16:35 |
| ShadowJK | Nokia Shop gets it first, some "select" stores get some "limited" shipments next, etc | 16:36 |
| Shapeshifter | nokia shop... there isn't even anything like that in Switzerland ^^ | 16:36 |
| Shapeshifter | I wish there was. | 16:37 |
| Shapeshifter | lots of apple shops -.- | 16:37 |
| penguinbait | are you wishing for apple shops? | 16:37 |
| Shapeshifter | no. there _are_ lots of apple shops, while there isn't a single nokia shop. | 16:38 |
| woglinde | hm do I get one too when finished the jalimo stuff? | 16:38 |
| woglinde | hm I should port qtnx now to fremantle | 16:39 |
| woglinde | shoulnt be that hard | 16:39 |
| mgedmin | augh, I suck at web paes | 16:40 |
| mgedmin | augh, I suck at web pages | 16:40 |
| mgedmin | how do I get to the Maemo 5 SDK documentation from the maemo.org front page? | 16:40 |
| hrw | Shapeshifter: nokia shops? man... after many years nokia finally opened one in Poland | 16:40 |
| hrw | Shapeshifter: and it never had tablets | 16:40 |
| mgedmin | duh: press on 'development', not on 'community' | 16:40 |
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| Shapeshifter | hrw: :| | 16:41 |
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| clmntch | goo morning | 16:42 |
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| * mgedmin is trying to figure out what's special about the +/- keys | 16:42 | |
| woglinde | hm is there pipe symbol reachable via the keyboard? | 16:42 |
| woglinde | they | 16:43 |
| hrw | woglinde: on tablets? | 16:43 |
| hrw | woglinde: on n810 I had that as Shift+space iirc | 16:43 |
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| mgedmin | woglinde: it's reachable from the fn+ctrl popup | 16:44 |
| woglinde | mgedmin okay so only softkey again | 16:45 |
| mgedmin | lack of ~ on hardware kb irritates me more | 16:45 |
| mgedmin | I need it for xterm-y things | 16:45 |
| mgedmin | now I have to press fn+ctrl+dead_tilde+space | 16:45 |
| mgedmin | where dead_tilde is a softkey | 16:46 |
| hrw | mgedmin: or create proper kb layout instead of maemo one | 16:46 |
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| woglinde | mgedmin maybee it depends on localized keyboards | 16:46 |
| mgedmin | on my todo list, hrw | 16:46 |
| hrw | n810 keyboard layouts were also crappy | 16:46 |
| mgedmin | I kinda liked the n810, except it was impossible to type [/] | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | everyone loves to gripe about keylayouts | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, i too get annoyed by ~ | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | for typing actual English text the n900 kb is sweeeet | 16:47 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: um | 16:47 |
| timeless_mbp | i find my hands shift one letter horizontally :( | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | yeah, I had that too :) | 16:48 |
| mgedmin | fingers too used to the n810 I guess | 16:48 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 16:48 | |
| timeless_mbp | i never really adapted to the n810 keyboard | 16:48 |
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| pancake | is there any repo for the n900 to install the sdk natively? | 16:50 |
| pancake | just need gcc and -dev packages | 16:50 |
| pancake | gdb and so on.. | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | pancake: i suspect the rootstrap may be usable as a chroot | 16:50 |
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| pancake | any direct url to download it? | 16:51 |
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| JamieBennett | who has access to change a feed address for planet.maemo.org, its has the wrong one for me now :( | 16:52 |
| timeless_mbp | file a bug ;-) | 16:53 |
| X-Fade | JamieBennett: me | 16:53 |
| X-Fade | JamieBennett: What is the correct one? | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | pancake: http://repository.maemo.org/stable | 16:53 |
| * JamieBennett goes looking | 16:54 | |
| pancake | +OK | 16:54 |
| JamieBennett | damn you wordpress, how do you export just a tag (or category)? | 16:58 |
| AndrewFBlack2 | 21 | 16:59 |
| JamieBennett | ah found it | 17:00 |
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| JamieBennett | X-Fade: do you have the feedburner url for my feed? http://feeds.feedburner.com/linuxuk-maemo | 17:01 |
| pupnik | strange things here - n810 now also inreboot loop | 17:01 |
| X-Fade | JamieBennett: http://feeds.feedburner.com/LinuxUk-Maemo | 17:01 |
| JamieBennett | cool, the problem was my end then, thanks | 17:02 |
| mgedmin | pancake: just be careful and don't try apt-get dist-upgrades with the SDK repo enabled | 17:03 |
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| pancake | mgedmin: i will try to use it in a chroot | 17:03 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: Have you had a chance to try switching networks with the ip applet? | 17:03 |
| mgedmin | how do I use xprop to *set* window properties? I always get "unsupported conversion" | 17:03 |
| pancake | to not interfer the system fs | 17:03 |
| mgedmin | fiferboy: yep, works fine | 17:04 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: Great. It works fine for me too, and non-cellular networks | 17:04 |
| * mgedmin finds an answer to his xprop question: http://fasmz.org/~pterjan/blog/?date=20081113 | 17:04 | |
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| mgedmin | haaaack! xprop -id $window_id -f _HILDON_ZOOM_KEY_ATOM 32a -set _HILDON_ZOOM_KEY_ATOM 1 and my fbreader now gets volume key events | 17:08 |
| pupnik | so one week after 300 prototypes lent out at summit. what is the bugreport score? | 17:09 |
| pupnik | aight im makin it a threead | 17:10 |
| pancake | is there a way to bind Fn+Up to make it generate the '|' character? (n810/n900) | 17:10 |
| pancake | mgedmin: thanks :) it worked | 17:11 |
| mgedmin | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Porting_Software/Porting_Existing_GTK%2B_Application_to_Maemo_5#Remapping_volume_keys is a scary url | 17:11 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: Dirty hacker, indeed | 17:18 |
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| RST38h | the real problem of course is that they do not make it easier for us | 17:18 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Dunno abou tthe others, but I pretty much carpet -bombed bugzilla. Ask andre, he isn't happy =) | 17:19 |
| mgedmin | who are "they"? | 17:19 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Maemo Devices platform team. | 17:19 |
| andre__ | heh. well, it's not that I want to be happy all the time :) | 17:19 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Alternatively, it may be the hildon desktop team | 17:19 |
| andre__ | it's more that i can do more if i get good, exact bug reports :) | 17:19 |
| mgedmin | step 1: distribute 300 devices to people so they could provide feedback. step 2: 300 people flood bugzilla. step 3: ??? | 17:19 |
| Robot101 | profi! | 17:19 |
| andre__ | step 3: see andre__ trying to handle it | 17:19 |
| SpeedEvil | underpants | 17:19 |
| RST38h | Do I see suicide at step 4? | 17:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Nokia hit squad | 17:20 |
| andre__ | RST38h, no, more like quitting the job :-P | 17:20 |
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| mgedmin | rst, don't give him any ideas! | 17:20 |
| RST38h | andre: That would be considered suicide by the Maemo community =) | 17:20 |
| andre__ | i'm masochistic to a certain level, but not in a physically sense ;-) | 17:21 |
| mgedmin | we need a bugmaster, and we'll never find anybody else stupi^H^H^H^H^H willing to take the job! | 17:21 |
| andre__ | finally a sentence i can come up with when renegotiating the money :) | 17:21 |
| pupnik | https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=notregexp&short_desc=eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee&target_milestone=Fremantle&target_milestone=5.0-alpha-pre2&target_milestone=5.0-alpha&target_milestone=5.0-beta&target_milestone=5.0-beta2&target_milestone=5.0-final&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&ke | 17:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | andre__: Yeah, you can't leave those Nokians without a messenger; they'll want to commit suicide everytime! | 17:21 |
| pupnik | thot it was sshorter | 17:21 |
| pupnik | sorry | 17:21 |
| SpeedEvil | clipped at &ke | 17:22 |
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| pupnik | i trying to cme up with a bugs.maemo.org search for all n900 releated bugs created since oct 12 | 17:22 |
| Ceron^ | so i heard that the ovi maps sucks on the n900 | 17:23 |
| Ceron^ | is it true? | 17:23 |
| pupnik | http://ln-s.net/4Q5i | 17:23 |
| andre__ | your query also covers those tickets updated (not: filed) since oct12 | 17:23 |
| pupnik | i do not know | 17:23 |
| andre__ | Ceron^, yes | 17:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ceron^: I wouldn't call it speedy, not by a long shot... | 17:23 |
| mgedmin | Ceron^: it both sucks and is kinda nice | 17:23 |
| mgedmin | the loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong startup time sucks | 17:23 |
| Ceron^ | what does that meen? | 17:23 |
| Ceron^ | isee | 17:23 |
| mgedmin | lack of ability to work offline sanely sucks | 17:23 |
| mgedmin | having a usable world map out of the box kinda rules | 17:24 |
| Ceron^ | are there alternative gps software for the n900? | 17:24 |
| Ceron^ | except for the maemo mapper | 17:24 |
| mgedmin | searching for "chinese restaurant" in gothenburg, sweden gives me 15 hits in united arab emirates 4000 km away, which is fun, but not useful | 17:24 |
| pupnik | i am sorry to ask, but why am i gettin zarro bugs?http://ln-s.net/4Q5i | 17:24 |
| pupnik | oops | 17:24 |
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| mgedmin | has maemo-mapper been ported yet? | 17:24 |
| * RST38h finds it strange there werent any hits in china | 17:25 | |
| RST38h | not yet and the author has not spoken for a long time | 17:25 |
| Ceron^ | are there other gps maps for n900 than maemomapper + ovi maps | 17:25 |
| Ceron^ | the silence suggests to a no :\ | 17:26 |
| RST38h | Oh, niiice | 17:26 |
| RST38h | http://www.cio.com.au/article/320807/open_source_identity_pulseaudio_creator_lennart_poettering | 17:26 |
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| RST38h | enjoy | 17:26 |
| * mgedmin is trying to learn how to use ovi.com for publishing screenshots of maemo apps | 17:27 | |
| Jaffa | Ceron^: OSM2Go, NavIt, ... | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | so uploading is easy; but what's the URL of the thing I just uploaded? | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | osm2go is not really a gps map app | 17:27 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: sure you are not masochistic? | 17:27 |
| RST38h | navit on n900? | 17:28 |
| RST38h | where? | 17:28 |
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| woglinde | RST38h lennart didnt setup unit test and didnt test compiling with other libc's | 17:28 |
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| mgedmin | so, test: can you people access this picture, or does it as for login: http://share.ovi.com/media/mgedmin.mymedia/mgedmin.10001?sort=0 ? | 17:28 |
| woglinde | we alwaya have to patch it | 17:28 |
| mgedmin | also, have you seen this facebook widget bug? | 17:28 |
| RST38h | woglinde: TORCH HIM! | 17:29 |
| SpeedEvil | must sign in | 17:29 |
| mgedmin | crap :( | 17:29 |
| RST38h | Frankly, I do not see the differewnce between lennart and the last two-three guys | 17:29 |
| woglinde | rst I know he is somewhere around me in a circle of 30 km | 17:29 |
| RST38h | Every single one of them starts with the same goals, creates another monstrosity, then quits | 17:29 |
| RST38h | woglinde: Just imagine: if you had a relatively small nuclear weapon, you wouldn't even have to drive... | 17:30 |
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| derf | RST38h: I've met Lennart. I don't think he's going to quit. | 17:31 |
| RST38h | derf: He will, give him 2-3 years | 17:31 |
| derf | He's already been doing this for 2-3 years. | 17:32 |
| derf | I first met him in early 2007. | 17:32 |
| RST38h | *another* 2-3 years, I mean... | 17:32 |
| woglinde | rst he will not quit | 17:32 |
| RST38h | If he doesn't though, it will be refreshing news | 17:33 |
| woglinde | and there are some more people | 17:33 |
| * RST38h now remembers OSS audio, Arts, ESD, ALSA... | 17:33 | |
| RST38h | Forgot anything? | 17:34 |
| SpeedEvil | pulseaudio | 17:34 |
| SpeedEvil | that audio-over-x solution | 17:34 |
| SpeedEvil | netaudio? | 17:34 |
| * SpeedEvil forgets the name. | 17:34 | |
| thux | ot why laptops have this efi mode is it same than intel mac's has? is it any use to set it on if boot linux? | 17:34 |
| derf | jack | 17:35 |
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| RST38h | netaudio was done by Sun right? for their thin computers? | 17:35 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: possibly - I'm unsure | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | there: http://share.ovi.com/media/mgedmin.N900screenshots/mgedmin.10001 | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | should be public now | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | ovi sucks | 17:35 |
| RST38h | you really had to try it to find that out? | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | lennart is amazing | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | so, what's wrong with the user interface here: http://share.ovi.com/media/mgedmin.N900screenshots/mgedmin.10002 ? | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | icon on the ok button | 17:36 |
| RST38h | tigert is definitely amazing, dunno about lennart | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | alignment of the text inside the ok button | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | lowercase title | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | anything else? | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | spacing? | 17:36 |
| mihu | I'm using the Maemo SDK 5. I did "apt-get update", then tried "apt-get build-dep gstreamer0.10". This results in "E: Build-Depends-Indep dependency for gstreamer0.10 cannot be satisfied because the package docbook-utils cannot be found". Did anyone ever had this problem? | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | maybe I should just find a link to the maemo 5 hig and put it in the bug | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | mihu: I can confirm | 17:37 |
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| mihu | mgedmin: And, how did you fix it? :-) | 17:38 |
| mgedmin | I didn't | 17:39 |
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| woglinde | *g* | 17:39 |
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| woglinde | compile docbook-utils package from lenny or etch | 17:39 |
| woglinde | install it manually via dokg | 17:39 |
| woglinde | args dpkg | 17:39 |
| woglinde | thats what I would try | 17:40 |
| mihu | woglinde: That will probably do the trick, but of course the question is where the official docbook-utils should usually comes from. | 17:43 |
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| * mgedmin *loves* the Fremantle Master Layout Guide | 17:50 | |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx, penguinbait (& rest of council): some mail for you | 17:50 |
| penguinbait | k | 17:50 |
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| penguinbait | nothing yet? | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | will come, i hope :P | 17:52 |
| penguinbait | faster than a speeding email | 17:52 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, where | 17:52 |
| penguinbait | more powerful than a n810 | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: huh? | 17:52 |
| penguinbait | able to get wifi in tall buildings | 17:53 |
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| lcuk | * mgedmin *loves* the Fremantle Master Layout Guide | 17:53 |
| mgedmin | I love it right here, in my chair | 17:53 |
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| mgedmin | or do you want a url? | 17:53 |
| mgedmin | http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e778ba1f-2507-4672-be45-798359a3aea7/Fremantle_Master_Layout_Guide.html | 17:53 |
| penguinbait | I feel like I am gonna url | 17:54 |
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| * lcuk gets penguinbait a bucket | 17:54 | |
| tigert | heh | 17:54 |
| penguinbait | fish bucket? | 17:55 |
| RST38h | url url url? | 17:55 |
| * tigert heads to wrench store for tools that dont break | 17:55 | |
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| * lcuk puts penguinbait in the bucket and walks to the enclosure | 17:55 | |
| andre__ | hmm. what to smoke to understand the difference between "Day view" and "Agenda view" in calendar? | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: fish | 17:55 |
| RST38h | try last year's wall calendars | 17:55 |
| andre__ | uhm. | 17:55 |
| penguinbait | andre, you were supposed to figure that out in amsterdam | 17:56 |
| Jaffa | andre__: Agenda view shows you several days | 17:56 |
| RST38h | ground with a toadstool powder of course | 17:56 |
| andre__ | penguinbait, i was too busy with cigarette breaks, didn't even attend my own talk | 17:56 |
| * mgedmin is annoyed by lack of smooth scrolling in calendar month view | 17:56 | |
| * Jaffa too | 17:56 | |
| andre__ | Jaffa, thanks. need more test calendars it seems | 17:56 |
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| hrw | hmm. where I can edit my maemo profile? on maemo.org it only shows, on talk.maemo.org I cannot edit website | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | try kinetic scrolling by pressing near the top/bottom and dragging -> you're unexpectedly jumped to a different month without an indication which, and end up confused | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | hrw: maemo.org: login, view profile, use the floaty menu bar thingy-wingy and select page -> edit | 17:58 |
| mgedmin | or something complicated like that | 17:58 |
| * RST38h considers filing bug trackers about package voting interface | 17:58 | |
| pupnik | ty for lik | 17:58 |
| hrw | found | 17:58 |
| hrw | mgedmin: thx | 17:58 |
| andre__ | hrw, http://maemo.org/profile/edit/ | 17:58 |
| andre__ | ah, k | 17:58 |
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| pupnik | wow, 10 pixels per mm | 17:59 |
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| * mgedmin wonders if he can add hildon api reference to devhelp | 18:02 | |
| lcuk | mgedmin, if it had smooth scrolling how would it work with the background pictures | 18:03 |
| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 18:03 | |
| lcuk | its not like mine where theres nice easy background | 18:03 |
| mgedmin | what background pictures? | 18:03 |
| lcuk | on the normal m5 calendar | 18:03 |
| lcuk | each month has a picture | 18:03 |
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| mgedmin | oh, I hadn't noticed | 18:03 |
| mgedmin | dunno, scroll the translucent calendar kinetically and cross-fade the right background picture | 18:04 |
| mgedmin | or at least jump to the other month when I release my finger, not while I'm holding it | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | um, actually it already does that | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | no, it doesn't | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | it jumps when I start dragging | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | that makes no sense at all | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | hm, maybe it does | 18:05 |
| lcuk | one of the views can be scrolled by grabbing the left hand side week view | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | a completely different ui paradigm from the rest | 18:06 |
| * lcuk nods | 18:06 | |
| mgedmin | feels like mouse gestures | 18:06 |
| lcuk | maybe it is | 18:06 |
| lcuk | and gestures lead to the dark side | 18:06 |
| derf | They really do. | 18:06 |
| mgedmin | "calendaring software sucks" is a law of sw engineering | 18:06 |
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| * lcuk has the calendar he always wanted | 18:07 | |
| lcuk | now i just need to learn how to make a recess into the wall, buy a touchscreen tablet, install software, learn how to sync properly | 18:07 |
| * mgedmin wants to know how hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_buttons knows how many extra buttons the user supplied -- this is C! varargs have no clue how many args there were | 18:07 | |
| lcuk | and i can stop worrying | 18:07 |
| lcuk | simple! | 18:07 |
| derf | mgedmin: NULL terminated list? | 18:08 |
| mgedmin | or is there a bug in this example: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Graphical_UI_Tutorial/Controls#Confirmation_Notes | 18:08 |
| mgedmin | somebody omitted the NULL? | 18:08 |
| derf | I don't know. | 18:08 |
| lcuk | that looks like a bug | 18:08 |
| mgedmin | hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_buttons is actually a preprocessor macro that appends a , NULL at the end? | 18:08 |
| pupnik | mgedmin, do you think special apps like camera should break UI guidelinnes if needed? | 18:08 |
| mgedmin | that would be way too hacky | 18:08 |
| mgedmin | pupnik: if they do it with style | 18:09 |
| mgedmin | calendar doesn't | 18:09 |
| mgedmin | calendar tries and fails | 18:09 |
| lcuk | ... : arguments pairs for new buttons(label and return value). Terminate the list with NULL value. | 18:09 |
| pupnik | camera adjustments obscure screen conten / preview | 18:09 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/hildon/HildonNote.html#hildon-note-new-confirmation-add-buttons | 18:09 |
| mgedmin | another style-offending apps are pdf reader and notes (really? maemo 4 style scroll bar?) | 18:09 |
| pupnik | mmmm | 18:09 |
| mihu | mgedmin: "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" works in the package I try to recompile, even when "apt-get build-dep" failed before. Of course, after I manually installed all the really necessary packages like flex, lsb-release etc. | 18:09 |
| derf | "Terminate the list with NULL value." | 18:09 |
| pupnik | but notes is necessarily in edit mode mgedmin | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: you were quoting what? | 18:10 |
| lcuk | you need a scrollbar if you are to allow selection and scorlling | 18:10 |
| derf | So yeah, the example is likely wrong. | 18:10 |
| pupnik | we have to split between twomodes, pan and hilight | 18:10 |
| derf | And "works" by pure luck. | 18:10 |
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| lcuk | derf, its not pure luck | 18:10 |
| derf | Because 0 is a pretty common thing to accidentally have on the stack. | 18:10 |
| lcuk | my memory is initialized to NULL before i start ;) :D | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | ah, interleaved irc conversations are confusing | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | I see the link now | 18:10 |
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| * mgedmin enables wiki powers and EDITS | 18:11 | |
| pupnik | i uploaded part of my connsciousness to the cloud. the real pupnik is raking leaves | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | aieee! <span><font color="#FF0000"></font></span> are swarming me! | 18:11 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, if you use kinetics (in the current gtk implementation) you can scroll, you cannot scroll OR select | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | lcuk: browser solved that | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | I want my cake and eat it too! | 18:11 |
| lcuk | no it didnt | 18:11 |
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| lcuk | thats a non trivial workaround that a user of notes would not expect | 18:12 |
| lcuk | a scrollbar in the right environment is not wrong | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | hmm | 18:12 |
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| mgedmin | could've used a thumb scrollbar at least | 18:13 |
| lcuk | on a browser, selection is not the normal operation | 18:13 |
| lcuk | in a text editor, its vital | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | I can't agree with you | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | I kinda like how xterm did it: toolbar button toggles scrolling/selection | 18:14 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: PDF Reader does not seem to have changed since Maemo4 | 18:14 |
| RST38h | They probably just haven't got to it | 18:14 |
| mgedmin | yeah, peter hasn't recalled them from their summer vacations early enough | 18:15 |
| mgedmin | poor developers ... | 18:15 |
| pupnik | i like xterms solution also mgedmin | 18:16 |
| pupnik | wish it were standard, actually | 18:17 |
| pupnik | "we can handle two states| | 18:17 |
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| pupnik | "simplify as much as posible, but no further| | 18:17 |
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| mgedmin | I, for one, scroll much more than I select | 18:18 |
| pupnik | can we has transparent buttons and scrolbars in theme or app? | 18:19 |
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| mgedmin | btw when I upgraded personal-ip-address to latest version, my statusbar applets crashed | 18:22 |
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| mgedmin | coincidence? | 18:23 |
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| fiferboy_ | mgedmin: Updated to 0.3-4? | 18:25 |
| mgedmin | yes | 18:26 |
| fiferboy_ | I don't think there is any way for a desktop widget to crash statusbar widgets | 18:26 |
| mgedmin | exactly | 18:26 |
| mgedmin | the desktop itself didn't crash | 18:26 |
| fiferboy_ | What happens when the statusbar crashes? | 18:26 |
| mgedmin | it reloads and you see icons reappearing one by one | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | statusbar shouldn't crash when widgets crash o_ | 18:26 |
| mgedmin | except for custom ones | 18:26 |
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| mgedmin | custom plugins get disabled | 18:26 |
| fiferboy_ | There is no way to reload statusbar applets, that I know of | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | err, desktop widgets | 18:26 |
| mgedmin | rebooting restores the custom statusbar plugins | 18:27 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | fiferboy_: Sure there is: killall hildon-status-menu | 18:27 |
| mgedmin | I think it may have been a bug in, e.g., load-applet that was triggered somehow | 18:27 |
| fiferboy_ | mgedmin: What custom statusbar plugins do you have installed? | 18:27 |
| fiferboy_ | qwerty12_N810: That automatically restarts it as well? | 18:27 |
| mgedmin | dunno how -- high system load? out of disk space? rebuilding gtk icon cache? no clue | 18:27 |
| mgedmin | I have three: brightness, load-applet, connectity-switcher | 18:28 |
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| mgedmin | should nuke the last one, it's useless | 18:28 |
| qwerty12_N810 | fiferboy_: yes | 18:28 |
| fiferboy_ | I have brightness and load-applet and never seen a statusbar crash | 18:28 |
| fiferboy_ | qwerty12_N810: Good to know | 18:28 |
| mgedmin | thanks, qwerty, killall hildonj-status-menu resurrected load-applet | 18:29 |
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| mgedmin | now I can (try to) take screenshots | 18:29 |
| nnod | who can tell me how to optify a python program? | 18:29 |
| mgedmin | load-applet please flash the blue LED when you take a screenshot! | 18:29 |
| mgedmin | lack of feedback is ... is ... leaves me speechless | 18:30 |
| nnod | i have some text files (dictionaries) that i want to store under /opt/maemo/usr/share/dict | 18:30 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, it should display some ui on the screen before it starts "Please wait, capturing screenshot" | 18:30 |
| woglinde | nnod did you already tried to use the optifier? | 18:30 |
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| mgedmin | lcuk: it says to press the camera key within the next 20 seconds to actually take a screenshot | 18:31 |
| mgedmin | so I press the camera key | 18:31 |
| mgedmin | then nothing appears to happen | 18:31 |
| mgedmin | except that the camera app starts up and asks me to remove the lens cover | 18:31 |
| nnod | woglinde: i figured it would be simpler just to change the installation script myself, since it's a very simple setup.py already | 18:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ctrl-Shift-P shortcut is more annoying in this regard | 18:31 |
| lcuk | on n900 there is a keypress combo to take a screenshot anytime | 18:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mgedmin: Ah, you don't need to fully press it in | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | qwerty12_N810: seconded about ctrl+shift+p | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | I'm trying to take a screenshot of a theme bug in a popup menu | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | no luck whatsoever | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | otoh maybe the screenshot is there but tracker sucks and hides it from me | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | you can get paranoid really fast this way | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | bloody hell, it's both: tracker is hiding images from me AND the screenshot isn't there | 18:34 |
| lcuk | does the pic viewer display images from the tracker cache, or from a filesystem scan? | 18:34 |
| pupnik | a camera is more reliable | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | http://mg.pov.lt/chinese-food-4000km-away.png | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | is what I was talking about: ovi maps suggesting pois in the emirates | 18:35 |
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| pupnik | hm | 18:35 |
| absolute | cmon, just a short hike :) | 18:36 |
| lcuk | maybe a swim | 18:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Yeah, mgedmin, Ovi Maps is right: Everyone has a private plane | 18:36 |
| lcuk | at least you wouldv worked up an appetite | 18:36 |
| absolute | I'll even give you some floaties to use | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | yay load-applet screencast recorded a blank screen plus background audio | 18:37 |
| * lcuk gets back to packaging | 18:37 | |
| mgedmin | *headdesk* | 18:37 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | yerga has a post on Talk, somewhere, on how to get it working | 18:37 |
| lcuk | ahhh but was it background audio from a chinese restaurant 4000km away? | 18:38 |
| jeremiah | Its a loud restaurant | 18:38 |
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| mgedmin | hm, if apt says libncurses5-dev is already installed in my sbox, why does kernel's make menuconfig complain about undefined references to waddch et al? | 18:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, stupid, stupid, stupid. | 18:41 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mgedmin: Google "fanoush kconfig" and the first result has a fix, by fanoush | 18:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, sorry, my steps get a little imprecise when filing from a tablet. ;) | 18:42 |
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| mgedmin | qwerty12_N810: the first hit is http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/kernel-2.6.27-20084805r03-20090202r03.diff | 18:43 |
| andre__ | GeneralAntilles, hehe | 18:43 |
| mgedmin | but I found http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=124726&postcount=8 | 18:43 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mgedmin: I get a Talk forum page. But no matter, I can be arsed to open the browser: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=14666 | 18:44 |
| qwerty12_N810 | That's the one | 18:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, by the way, iGo chargers will charge the N900 fine with tip A97. | 18:44 |
| mgedmin | is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide serious about EXTRAVERSION=-maemo2 ? | 18:45 |
| wazd | moto has failed at the industrial design, time to show something from Nokia :) | 18:45 |
| wazd | Mr. Mark Delaney - your turn :) | 18:48 |
| pancake | n900 kernel doesnt supports unionfs? | 18:48 |
| * mgedmin can hear hrw's accent in his head when reading his blog posts | 18:48 | |
| hrw | mgedmin: ;D | 18:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | hrw, nice to see you around again, by the way. ;) | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | *whew*, I think it's the last time I'll be reading the various maemo bug jars | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | I've been doing that since this *morning* | 18:52 |
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| mgedmin | granted, in the background, but still | 18:52 |
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| mgedmin | ouch, somebody left his n900 in the back of a taxi in Amsterdam :( | 18:53 |
| greenfly | time to start work on a lojack app | 18:53 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | I imagine the person who found it will be in cahoots... | 18:53 |
| darktears | is there anybody that know how to trigger the "expose" like effect on Maemo5 (is it a dbus call or a gtk method to call?) | 18:54 |
| lcuk | doesnt nokia already have a network ping whenever someone tries to use gps (supl) does this per chance send uid? | 18:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eurgh, $370 for USA discount. | 18:54 |
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| mgedmin | better than $448, isn't it? | 18:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, better, but it's not much better than ~$550. | 18:55 |
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| lcuk | its ~$180 better by my calculator | 18:55 |
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| absolute | discount? as in the t-mo subsidies that are to come? | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | 370$? not bad | 18:56 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: so someone was complaining about font layout in MicroB when zooming | 18:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, that'd be me. ;) | 18:56 |
| timeless_mbp | the explanation for that is that Gecko doesn't reflow for zooming | 18:56 |
| timeless_mbp | and tries to match font sizing without blowing away box layout | 18:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, it's basically made zooming a non-feature for me. | 18:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | so essentially the layout of the individual characters derives from the placement at the prezoomed page | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | if you install fennec, you should experience the same behavior | 18:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Any plans to fix it? | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | that's a vague overview of the technical problem | 18:57 |
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| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: do you know about the ctrl+shift+i hidden key? | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | fixing it would be done on the mozilla side | 18:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's usability-killing behavior, honestly. | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll try to poke someone about it this week, but i really don't have an answer | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | it's unlikely to make pr1.2 (1.1 doesn't get browser fixes in general, and 1.2 is probably closing soon) | 18:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, upstream will fix it in, maybe, a couple months, then Nokia wont ship the updated Gecko until Harmattan, right? :) | 18:58 |
| timeless_mbp | since it requires someone to fix it | 18:58 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly :) | 18:58 |
| jeremiah | timeless_mbp: pong | 18:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Idoicy. | 18:58 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 18:58 | |
| ali1234 | you want gecko to reflow the page when you zoom, like the old version used to? | 18:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | This is one of those bugs that will drive away every possible iPhone convert from the platform. | 18:59 |
| ali1234 | did you ever actually try to use that? | 18:59 |
| ali1234 | it doesn't work *at all* | 18:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | ali1234: fwiw, what i want is to be able to tell the browser how wide it should tell the web page the screen is | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | so that i can influence how the page tries to lay out its content :) | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | but sadly, trying to expose a ui for that is hard | 18:59 |
| ali1234 | unless it's a fixed width page, like *all* websites are | 19:00 |
| timeless_mbp | i need to try to write a fennec addon for it to demo | 19:00 |
| hrw | GeneralAntilles: thx, nice to be remembered | 19:00 |
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| darktears | is there any maemo development channel? | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | darktears: there's this channel, and there's #mer | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | those are about it | 19:04 |
| mgedmin | on irc? no | 19:04 |
| jeremiah | darktears: You're in it! | 19:04 |
| AndrewFBlack2 | msg wazd you around | 19:04 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 19:04 | |
| AndrewFBlack2 | stuppid / | 19:04 |
| mgedmin | grr what do I need to enable in kernel .config to get iptables_nat.ko? | 19:04 |
| * timeless_mbp figures out bug source | 19:05 | |
| hrw | I do not develop for maemo, I complain about it, report bugs and try to be enough annoying to be remembered | 19:05 |
| * timeless_mbp needs to try to figure out how to do asynchronous ui work | 19:05 | |
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| wazd | AndrewFBlack2: pong :) | 19:05 |
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| AndrewFBlack2 | wazd, wasn't it you who made the image tha showed all the devices Mer will run on? | 19:06 |
| guysoft42 | hi all, i created a kernel module, is there any nice way to package it? | 19:06 |
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| ali1234 | mgedmin: iptables = netfilter | 19:07 |
| mgedmin | so? | 19:07 |
| wazd | AndrewFBlack2: yep | 19:07 |
| * ShadowJK likes to set minimum font size to something readable in teh first place :D | 19:07 | |
| ShadowJK | like 7pt | 19:07 |
| mgedmin | there's no NF_NAT in .config, I must first enable some prerequisite | 19:07 |
| mgedmin | does NAT depend on CONNTRACK? | 19:07 |
| ali1234 | almost certainly | 19:07 |
| AndrewFBlack2 | can you send it to me I want to do a print out of it at FLS | 19:08 |
| mgedmin | guysoft42: I'm about to have the same question, assuming I can manage to compile the darn module | 19:08 |
| guysoft42 | mgedmin, i just did that phase, i can help you :) | 19:08 |
| mgedmin | what module did you build? | 19:08 |
| guysoft42 | mgedmin, but now i dono how to distrubute it | 19:08 |
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| guysoft42 | cac_acm | 19:08 |
| guysoft42 | mgedmin, ^ | 19:08 |
| mgedmin | scp *.ko my-n900: ;) | 19:08 |
| ali1234 | mgedmin: there is a NF_NAT config | 19:09 |
| guysoft42 | mgedmin, ah, i am on Nokia N810 | 19:09 |
| ali1234 | mgedmin: http://pastebin.com/m32d3d89f | 19:10 |
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| mgedmin | "IPv4 connection tracking support (required for NAT)" | 19:11 |
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| guysoft42 | so thats it, everyone here will get a nokia N900. and i will be all alone and unsupported... | 19:13 |
| guysoft42 | also, why all the docs in mamo.org are not working?: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-0-x/creating_a_debian_package/ | 19:13 |
| nnod | nice, optify worked for my python package | 19:13 |
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| guysoft42 | here, pick a doc, any doc, they all are broken: http://search.maemo.org/search?q=kernel+module+deb&btnG=Search&site=maemo-org&client=maemo-org&proxystylesheet=maemo-org&output=xml_no_dtd | 19:13 |
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| mgedmin | wikis rule | 19:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I really, really, really, hate trying to get things fixed this late in the development cycle. | 19:16 |
| guysoft42 | um, is there an answer to this guy?: http://search.maemo.org/search?q=cache:yp_A9l2Hez4J:maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/read/21053524885f11dd98821f158e3a34f834f8.html+kernel+module+deb+%28site%3Agarage.maemo.org+|+site%3Adownloads.maemo.org+|+site%3Amaemo.org+|+site%3Awiki.maemo.org+|+site%3Abugs.maemo.org+|+site%3Arepository.maemo.org+|+site%3Astage.maemo.org+|+site%3Alists.maemo.org+%29&access=p&output=xml_no_dtd&site=maemo-o | 19:16 |
| guysoft42 | rg&ie=UTF-8&client=maemo-org&proxystylesheet=maemo-org&oe=ISO-8859-1 , Automatic Linux Kernel Module Loading on ITOS2008 | 19:16 |
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| mgedmin | that's not a clickable link | 19:17 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | *blink* | 19:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Every time I start filing issues I run into a wall because Nokia has made all of these decisions 6, 8, 12 months ago and they're thoroughly entrenched in the conclusions they came to now. | 19:17 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: yup | 19:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | So there's basically no chance of getting anything fixed or improved. | 19:17 |
| mgedmin | what's your favourite tinyurl clone? | 19:17 |
| absolute | No coral cache of that page either that you're looking for | 19:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Logic and reason seem mostly to have abandoned them now. | 19:17 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: there's a slim chance they will consider your input behind closed doors and implement it in Maemo x+1 | 19:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, right. | 19:18 |
| greenfly | GeneralAntilles: seems pretty logical to come up with a development plan and stick to it so you can get a release out on time | 19:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | By which point a dozen other changes will have made this one obsolete. | 19:18 |
| greenfly | seems somewhat illogical to start changing those plans based on a bug report shortly before launch | 19:18 |
| mgedmin | that's a good thing, isn't it? | 19:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, not when those dozen other changes also suck. :( | 19:18 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: drink more kool-aid! | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | greenfly, my point is that Nokia needs to open up and let us in on the development process. | 19:19 |
| Jaffa | greenfly: However, it'd be entirely logical for them to discuss the problems and issues in public long before they're set in stone. Free consultancy from paid software professional | 19:19 |
| Jaffa | s | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | greenfly, because clearly it's not working as-is. | 19:19 |
| * mgedmin wonders which particular issue GA is talking about now | 19:19 | |
| mgedmin | browser zooming, or something new? | 19:19 |
| greenfly | I think it's still the font zooming one | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5369 | 19:20 |
| greenfly | which sounded like it was an upstream bug | 19:20 |
| mgedmin | ah, yes | 19:20 |
| mgedmin | that irritated me too | 19:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | jrocha's response to the key rebinding issue on -developers points to entrenchment, too. | 19:20 |
| mgedmin | then I convinced myself that it's a reasonable design decision | 19:20 |
| mgedmin | key rebinding: I read the responses as people trying to be helpful | 19:20 |
| greenfly | seems like a reasonable default to me as well | 19:21 |
| mgedmin | "I don't know how to solve the issue the way you want, but maybe you weren't aware of that other little possibility, and now knowing it maybe makes your life a bit easier?" | 19:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, mostly I saw "I can't imagine any reason anybody would even need to input text any differently than we've designed" | 19:21 |
| mgedmin | human communication is a tricky and unsolved problem | 19:21 |
| greenfly | ie. if I see autocompleted text and hit bksp I'd assume it would get rid of that text first, then I'd hit it again to start at my text | 19:21 |
| greenfly | in either case, I don't see how it would rate as "showstopper" | 19:22 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Guess what. | 19:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | greenfly, well, once again, I've turned off autocomplete because it makes text entry more difficult. | 19:22 |
| greenfly | seems more like a matter of preference | 19:22 |
| simula | has there been any word of a n900 ship date in the states? | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | ooh, that bug has new flamey comments I haven't seen before | 19:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Rather than making things easier like it should. | 19:22 |
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| mgedmin | GA, what's your opinion on autocapitalization? | 19:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, what? | 19:23 |
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| ali1234 | autocomplete will *always* make text entry more difficult in the case where it doesn't correctly guess what you are typing | 19:23 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Something's gone wrong with my device discount. lol | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | I never know if hitting shift will make the next letter uppercase or lowercase | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, also useless, since it's completely unpredictable. | 19:23 |
| ali1234 | that's why i turned it off and would do so regardless of this stupid backspace thing | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | there's no visual indication and the software (esp 3rd party) is inconsistent whether it enable sautocaps or not | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | autocomplete I should be able to just ignore unless it's actually making my life easier. | 19:23 |
| ali1234 | i turned off auto capitalise too | 19:23 |
| absolute | guysoft42: http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:s7ofFA6PM1cJ:maemo.org/development/documentation/manuals/4-0-x/creating_a_debian_package/+4+creating+a+debian+package+site:maemo.org&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which is why backspace should delete what I'm typing and not the autocomplete suggestion. | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, I would never have guessed! | 19:24 |
| ali1234 | yes, i think you're right | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, what happened? | 19:24 |
| ali1234 | but i'd still turn it off even if it worked like that | 19:24 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: I just never received the e-mail. And it'll take probably a month before Quim decides to respond to me. | 19:24 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: You know... going by past standards. | 19:25 |
| mgedmin | BTW I'm +1 for a hidden gconf setting | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, lol. | 19:25 |
| guysoft42 | absolute, yes, i got that by now. the thing is i need now a way to load the module on-boot | 19:25 |
| qwerty12_N810 | zerojay: FWIW, I'm yet to recieve an e-mail, too. | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, sadly those are seemingly no easier to get implemented than real UI settings. | 19:25 |
| zerojay | Starting to wonder if I was meant to get the discount at all. | 19:25 |
| absolute | my bad, i thought you were still struggling to see the missing info... so i dug up a cached version of it for ya | 19:25 |
| mgedmin | nope | 19:25 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: I'm +100 for an open-source input engine that I or you could tweak to our heart's content | 19:25 |
| javispedro | well, i got the invitation email at least. | 19:25 |
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| zerojay | Shit, they gave me a device alongside the Fremantle stars even though I'm not a developer... so I gotta assume I SHOULD be getting a discount. | 19:26 |
| mgedmin | insmod: error inserting 'MyDocs/iptable_nat.ko': -1 Invalid module format | 19:26 |
| mgedmin | :/ | 19:26 |
| zerojay | Makes me wonder if I didn't do enough or whatever | 19:26 |
| javispedro | maybe they're throttling the emails | 19:27 |
| javispedro | I got mine at late night, I remember posting here when I got it. | 19:27 |
| mgedmin | zerojay: what's your karma? | 19:27 |
| zerojay | Yeah, I'd probably wanna choke 'em out too. | 19:27 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: 800 something. | 19:27 |
| darktears | is there any way in maemo5 to programmatically call the task switcher (the expose thingy)? dbus? gtk? | 19:27 |
| mgedmin | seems pretty clear-cut to me | 19:27 |
| * mgedmin has to run | 19:28 | |
| mgedmin | darktears: god I hope not | 19:28 |
| mgedmin | okay, that was a bit of an overreaction | 19:28 |
| mgedmin | doing that at user's request is fine, apps doing that without my request would be very obnoxious | 19:28 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | darktears: There's a d-bus call: google exit_app_view | 19:28 |
| darktears | qwerty12_N810: thanks | 19:30 |
| darktears | qwerty12_N810: i'll try that | 19:30 |
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| ali1234 | interestingly i'm having difficulty even finding an autocomplete box on a desktop machine | 19:34 |
| ali1234 | i'm sure they were all the rage a couple of years ago | 19:34 |
| ali1234 | i'm beginning to think the only sensible thing to do is show a drop down box with suggestions | 19:35 |
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| kr1shnak | Hi. Anyone here going to the "Off the Record" Ovi event on Monday 26th Oct? | 19:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, perhaps it's a matter of perception, but I'd call that civil. ;) | 19:40 |
| hrw | bye all | 19:40 |
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| absolute | haha, my office neighbour is yelling really loudly in russian | 19:40 |
| absolute | he sounds pissed | 19:40 |
| andre__ | GeneralAntilles, I don't know. I wouldn't have a problem either, but I'm just afraid that in the long run it's counter-productive... | 19:40 |
| absolute | oops, wrong chan | 19:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, it's a rather severe problem with our current arrangement than I keep running into every time there's a new release. | 19:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's getting a bit tiresome after 4 years. :) | 19:41 |
| andre__ | yes, we're all passionate :) | 19:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Invoking "vision" isn't a great way to go about convincing me that a particular design decision is a good one. | 19:42 |
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| VDVsx | X-Fade, ping | 19:43 |
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| ali1234 | what does FKB stand for? | 19:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Finger keyboard. | 19:47 |
| ali1234 | hmm ok, what is the finger keyboard? | 19:47 |
| kr1shnak | I'm guessing its the touch screen keyboard on the N800 | 19:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemofingerkeyboard.jpg | 19:48 |
| ali1234 | oh, the on screen keyboard | 19:48 |
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| ali1234 | yeah, not having arrow keys on it is a pain in the arse, just like it was on the n800 | 19:49 |
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| wazd_ | ~ping | 19:49 |
| infobot | ~pong | 19:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Finger keyboard in Diablo, Virtual keyboard in Fremantle. | 19:49 |
| wazd_ | guys, can you explain me how to add something to kernel parameters in ubuntu? :) | 19:50 |
| ali1234 | wazd_: what version of ubuntu? | 19:50 |
| wazd_ | ali1234: 9.04 | 19:50 |
| ali1234 | and is it the vdso thing? | 19:50 |
| wazd_ | ali1234: yep | 19:50 |
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| ali1234 | wazd_: look at /etc/sysctl.d/README | 19:52 |
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| ali1234 | basically you make a file /etc/sysctl.d/50-vdso.conf and put the vdso option in it, then run the updater, that should do it | 19:52 |
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| mgedmin900 | whoa, volume keys wswitch between tabs in xchat | 19:54 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Yes, I shoved that in the crash-prone version... | 19:54 |
| * lcuk sags | 19:55 | |
| penguinbait | quit slouching lcuk | 19:56 |
| lcuk | im tired, applied for several jobs, fitted a carpet, did hand to hand combat with dpkg and wrestled the loo roll off the cat | 19:57 |
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| aSIMULAtur | good luck on the job apps lcuk | 19:59 |
| aSIMULAtur | i have my fingers crossed for you :) | 19:59 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, hey, do you know how to get a module to load on startup? | 19:59 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Nope, never had the need | 19:59 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Look at the fuse package in extras, though | 20:00 |
| mgedmin900 | echo modname >/etc/modules | 20:00 |
| lcuk | :) i have my fingers and toes crossed too | 20:00 |
| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, ok | 20:00 |
| angasuleWork | hmm, /etc/modules | 20:00 |
| mgedmin900 | echo modname >/etc/modules | 20:00 |
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| aSIMULAtur | yeah i'll cross my toes too | 20:00 |
| mgedmin900 | eek | 20:00 |
| lcuk | :D | 20:00 |
| mgedmin900 | echo modname >>/etc/modules | 20:00 |
| wazd_ | damn, I got segfault again | 20:00 |
| mgedmin900 | don't overwrite it like in my orig suggestion | 20:00 |
| guysoft42 | mgedmin900, hmm, but i would need something that when installing the package wont have the line millons of times in there | 20:00 |
| wazd_ | in SDK | 20:00 |
| absolute | hehe, yeah, don't want to forget the second > | 20:01 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: Are you taking car of the mmap_min_address (or whatever it is called) too? | 20:01 |
| mgedmin900 | enter is too close to the up arrow | 20:01 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: what? :) | 20:01 |
| mgedmin900 | guysoft42, most modules get autoloaded | 20:01 |
| aSIMULAtur | oh yeah did i ever introduce you guys to my friend absolute? he's one of my good irc friends from another server and he's a n900 convert | 20:01 |
| aSIMULAtur | soon to be convert | 20:01 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: /usr/bin/hildon-desktop: Fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server :2.0. | 20:01 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: that's what I get | 20:01 |
| aSIMULAtur | bringing in the developers to the community :D | 20:01 |
| guysoft42 | mgedmin900, but i need to know where to place it | 20:01 |
| angasuleWork | absolute: welcome, have you received your cloak and sacrificial rubber chicken? | 20:02 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: You are in the X86 rootstrap? | 20:02 |
| mgedmin900 | /lib/modules/kernelversion | 20:02 |
| lcuk | mgedmin900, theres a place in helsinki that specializes in finger reconstruction, im sure they can make yours a little thinner | 20:02 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: english please :) | 20:02 |
| absolute | not yet :) | 20:02 |
| guysoft42 | mgedmin900, ok, if it works from there.. | 20:02 |
| lcuk | hi absolute \o | 20:02 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: I run scratchbox in VM ubuntu 9.04 | 20:02 |
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| fiferboy | wazd_: Is your prompt "sbox-FREMANTLE_X86" | 20:02 |
| absolute | heya | 20:02 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: yeah | 20:02 |
| mgedmin900 | hey | 20:02 |
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| guysoft42 | qwerty12_N810, is there a source fuse package | 20:03 |
| guysoft42 | ? | 20:03 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | In extras-devel, like I said | 20:04 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: before starting scratchbox, "echo 4096 |sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_address" | 20:04 |
| mgedmin900 | yep, got the crashy ver of xchat all right | 20:04 |
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| mgedmin900 | qwerty12_N810, FIX IT PLEASE | 20:04 |
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| mgedmin900 | the font size is killing my eyes | 20:05 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: no such file or directory | 20:06 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: before starting scratchbox, "echo 4096 |sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr" | 20:06 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: done | 20:07 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: Start up scratchbox and try again | 20:07 |
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| wazd_ | fiferboy: Have to restart VM, adter that segfault SDK don't want to work | 20:07 |
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| wazd | fiferboy: wait a sec :) | 20:08 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mgedmin900: Will do soon, I promise... | 20:09 |
| mgedmin900 | :) | 20:09 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | N900 not playing nice with my router isn't an incentive... :) | 20:09 |
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| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, power saving issues ? | 20:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: I've turned PSM off but I still get messed around... | 20:11 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: i've encountered really odd behaviour caused by corrupt DNS answers on my router | 20:11 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: no, fault again | 20:12 |
| penguinbait | like what | 20:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: Hmm, I have been playing with them a little, will look, thanks | 20:12 |
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| fiferboy | wazd_: When is the fault happening? When loading scratchbox? Trying to start the gui? | 20:12 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, humm, brand ? | 20:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: An über shitty Thomson Speedtouch | 20:12 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: I open up mail, see wizard, press next, try to focus in the field | 20:13 |
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| wazd_ | fiferboy: then it crashes | 20:13 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: and the worst thing that I have to restart Ubuntu to get it work again | 20:13 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: Ah, that is a Xephyr problem with ubuntu | 20:13 |
| fiferboy | There is a patch somewhere. I recompiled Xephyr for my system to get it to work | 20:13 |
| mgedmin900 | the tiny load applet is pretty | 20:13 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, I had one of those :) | 20:14 |
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| aSIMULAtur | anyone live in germany? | 20:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Germans? | 20:14 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: Since you say "had", I presume your experience with one was not the best of them either? | 20:14 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: I will send you my patched binaries :) | 20:14 |
| aSIMULAtur | yeah i might need some help finding something on the t mobile site | 20:14 |
| aSIMULAtur | my husband's internet connection still hasn't been connected and he's ticked off | 20:14 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: that would be nice :) | 20:15 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: Unless you want to compile some yourself... ;) | 20:15 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: sure! :D | 20:15 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, actually was good, but I got a new one from my ISP so I gave the thomson to a friend | 20:15 |
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| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, never tried with the n900, but worked well with the n810 :) | 20:16 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: I will send you the 30 step instructions, hang on a sec | 20:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: What?! Man, I feel sorry for your friend :/ | 20:16 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: 30?! | 20:16 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: oh my :D | 20:16 |
| fiferboy | ;) | 20:16 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: Just kidding. You'll have an email in a few minutes | 20:16 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, he's a happy windows user, so np ;) | 20:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I was about to make a remark but then I looked up at my monitor :( | 20:17 |
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| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, ping | 20:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, hrm? | 20:22 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, do you know who is the responsible for this page: http://maemo.org/news/jobs/ | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, not offhand. | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, dneary or qgil should know, though. | 20:23 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, ok, gonna ask, thanks :) | 20:24 |
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| crashanddie | VDVsx, drop an email to jobs@maemo.org | 20:25 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx, and see who replies | 20:25 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, hehe, might work, I'll ask in the ML | 20:26 |
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| * GeneralAntilles rarely gets replies from those Nokia-owned @maemo.org addresses. | 20:27 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody get a response from Forum Nokia yet? | 20:27 |
| crashanddie | Forum Nokia? | 20:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | About the discount codes. | 20:29 |
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| crashanddie | discount codes? | 20:29 |
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| * crashanddie crawls back into his cave | 20:29 | |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, the email Quim sent out on Friday. | 20:29 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, didn't get an email from Quim on Friday | 20:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, 139. | 20:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, it went out to everybody with karma >200. | 20:30 |
| crashanddie | heh | 20:30 |
| crashanddie | lol | 20:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~€300 devices | 20:31 |
| crashanddie | ah, discount? Dun't care 'bout dat :P | 20:31 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, at ML, grab "your company" from the profile page, is your suggestion ? | 20:31 |
| crashanddie | VDVsx, and "availability", if possible | 20:32 |
| crashanddie | well, I guess not | 20:32 |
| crashanddie | because being on that page implies you're available to discuss about it | 20:32 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, yeah, agreed | 20:32 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, it's funny though... At the summit, not a couple of hours went by without me meeting someone and have them going "Who are you? Oh, crashanddie, you" | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | "you." | 20:33 |
| crashanddie | yet again, no matter which karma stuff we talk about, I'm never qualified, and I keep proving that it's not quantity that's important | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | 139 is getting there though | 20:34 |
| crashanddie | I've slipped a bit on tmo | 20:34 |
| * RST38h moos at the moon | 20:34 | |
| lcuk | bah! | 20:34 |
| lcuk | am i the only maemo professional :S | 20:34 |
| crashanddie | no, you're without a job | 20:34 |
| crashanddie | or are you? | 20:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | We should have IRC karma. | 20:34 |
| zerojay | Unless..? | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody just needs to write the code. . . . | 20:35 |
| RST38h | Yesss, yesssss | 20:35 |
| RST38h | Yess, my precioussss | 20:35 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, I heard some people talk about it at the summit | 20:35 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, and being discarded very, very quickly | 20:35 |
| crashanddie | along the lines of "IRC is just noise" | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, dneary's the only person I know to be against it. | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most of the people with keys to the karma car seem to be for it. ;) | 20:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | So I don't really see any issues. | 20:36 |
| RST38h | on which grounds, out of academic curioristy? | 20:36 |
| crashanddie | well, he's a good convincer :P | 20:36 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, spam, idle, useless | 20:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | IRC is the place where I've accomplished the most. | 20:36 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, agreed | 20:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's what got me involved with Maemo in the first place. | 20:36 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, you had the code, didn't you? | 20:36 |
| ali1234 | t.m.o isn't just noise? | 20:36 |
| ali1234 | news to me | 20:36 |
| lcuk | which code | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't even recall half the stuff I've made happen with IRC. ;) | 20:37 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, that made stats about the people talking on #maemo | 20:37 |
| lcuk | and btw, the term is not "without a job" its freelance isnt it | 20:37 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, heheh :P | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | A lot of them happened after failed attempts to make things happen on the mailing lists and Talk. | 20:37 |
| lcuk | hows your job hunting going? | 20:37 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, "self-employed" | 20:37 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, I think the problem would come from the amount of data there is to process | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | IRC karma could work if you did it on basis on relationship discussions | 20:38 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, how is the karma currently being accounted for? Every night a script runs and looks at every bit of information? | 20:38 |
| lcuk | i pointed mgedmin900 towards the irc stats generator | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | like, <X> Y: something, <X> Y, something | 20:38 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, or is it resumed from the day before? | 20:38 |
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| lcuk | if he managed to get the script running on the historical logs | 20:38 |
| VDVsx | looking for opportunities around Maemo ? join: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_professionals ;) | 20:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, ugh. | 20:38 |
| lcuk | we would have a page soon | 20:38 |
| VDVsx | coders/designers/advocates ^ | 20:38 |
| * mgedmin900 sighs | 20:38 | |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps, people don't necessarily use the nickname when they talk | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, so you'd have to match GAN, GA, Gen, General, GeneralAntilles, GAN800, GAN900, GAN8001 for me? :P | 20:39 |
| crashanddie | Especially when they continue their previous sentence | 20:39 |
| mgedmin900 | you people never stop talking when I'm not paying attention | 20:39 |
| lcuk | lol mgedmin900 | 20:39 |
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| mgedmin900 | catching up with irc logs is a full-time job | 20:39 |
| lcuk | aliases | 20:39 |
| ali1234 | GeneralAntilles: nope, because services can do that for you | 20:39 |
| lcuk | mgedmin900, you have a bot to do it for you :P | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | ali1234, erm, match every shorthand version of my nick that people use? :) | 20:40 |
| crashanddie | and typos? | 20:40 |
| lcuk | anomolies | 20:40 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: same problem as with seen bots | 20:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Easier to just lower the total karma reward and do it by lines. | 20:40 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, the problem with your thing is maemo.org doesnt allow swear words | 20:40 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, 0.01 karma per line | 20:40 |
| Stskeeps | sqrt(lines) could work | 20:40 |
| ali1234 | GeneralAntilles: dont need to match all the nicks you use if you register them all | 20:41 |
| crashanddie | ali1234, stop being obtuse | 20:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 20:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | ali1234, less than half of those are "nicks I use" | 20:41 |
| crashanddie | ali1234, half the time, people on NITs say "GA" instead of GeneralAntilles (rightfully so), same here, people say "crash" or get the spelling wrong | 20:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're shorthand abbreviations other people call me by. | 20:41 |
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| crashanddie | and I doubt either GA or "crash" are available for registration | 20:42 |
| lcuk | oh shite - if you use "crash" seb you will have most lines | 20:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, no, Freenode services don't help with that. :) | 20:42 |
| mgedmin900 | wait, lcuk if I set up irc stats I may get karma??? | 20:42 |
| ali1234 | and that matters because? | 20:42 |
| mgedmin900 | cool | 20:42 |
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| RST38h | High karma should let you kick and ban people. | 20:42 |
| RST38h | Otherwise it is no fun | 20:42 |
| lcuk | yeah! | 20:42 |
| lcuk | just a little lol | 20:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, WORKSFORME | 20:42 |
| RST38h | Super high karma should let you take over the channel | 20:42 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles | 20:42 | |
| GeneralAntilles | :D | 20:42 |
| *** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -o GeneralAntilles | 20:42 | |
| RST38h | To a different degree of course | 20:42 |
| mgedmin900 | showoff | 20:42 |
| qwerty12_N810 | whore | 20:42 |
| RST38h | Like, Quim should be able ot take over the channel and kick everyone off at any time | 20:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jealous. *g* | 20:42 |
| lcuk | mgedmin900, he has the power to remove you from the chan. you have the power to remove him from all of irc history. | 20:43 |
| RST38h | General should only be allowed to do it from 3:00am to 5:00am Florida time | 20:43 |
| crashanddie | ali1234, so basically, your algorithm would be what exactly? [begin line][word][comma], -> match [word] against nickserv database, -> get account name, -> lookup account name against maemo.org users, -> add karma? | 20:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Excellent, during peak European communication hours! | 20:43 |
| RST38h | lcuk should only be able to take over on every second wednesday of any month that contains 30 days | 20:43 |
| * GeneralAntilles writes some scripts. | 20:43 | |
| lcuk | i dont want control of irc | 20:44 |
| lcuk | i have my own chan | 20:44 |
| lcuk | and im not even op | 20:44 |
| crashanddie | thus, you don't have your own chan | 20:44 |
| RST38h | and, just to make sure penguinbait stays persuaded of conspiracy against him, only allow him to take over on Feb 29 | 20:44 |
| lcuk | good point | 20:44 |
| crashanddie | you are *in* a chan, without owning it | 20:44 |
| lcuk | it has a mind of its own | 20:44 |
| crashanddie | it has it's own postcode | 20:44 |
| crashanddie | s/it's/its/ | 20:44 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: it has its own postcode | 20:44 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, I have a friend who was born on the 29th | 20:45 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, technically speaking, he's 5 years old | 20:45 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: so what does he do? | 20:45 |
| ali1234 | crashanddie: sure, why not? | 20:45 |
| RST38h | Will he live until 320? | 20:45 |
| crashanddie | ali1234, right, you're not a programmer, are you? | 20:45 |
| ali1234 | crashanddie: yes, i am | 20:45 |
| crashanddie | oh boy, what's your name? So I put it on my people-to-avoid-working-with | 20:46 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, put yourself on the list | 20:46 |
| *** shdb has quit IRC | 20:46 | |
| *** penguinbait has quit IRC | 20:46 | |
| lcuk | since you made it :P | 20:46 |
| RST38h | The number of poeple who think Google is evil is currently 66.6% | 20:46 |
| ali1234 | crashanddie: don't need to worry about that | 20:46 |
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| RST38h | How fitting | 20:46 |
| lcuk | and crashanddie you have enough to say on the ML about helping - add yourself | 20:46 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, eh? | 20:46 |
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| ali1234 | crashanddie: i can see you're not a programmer. apparently you have never heard of a hash table? | 20:46 |
| crashanddie | context? | 20:47 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_professionals | 20:47 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, later ;) | 20:47 |
| * lcuk removes himself cos it looks just daft | 20:47 | |
| crashanddie | ali1234, hang on, are you a software architect? | 20:47 |
| mgedmin900 | is there a Maemo dilettantes list? | 20:47 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I have a hard time convincing myself to write my name on the list | 20:48 |
| RST38h | it is called t.m.o | 20:48 |
| lcuk | why | 20:48 |
| crashanddie | RST38h, or -users | 20:48 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, well, what if my employer finds this list? | 20:48 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, as you said, someone has to be the first ;) | 20:48 |
| lcuk | always | 20:48 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Just call yourself The Master of Universe. Make sure it is what you have on your CV as well | 20:48 |
| * lcuk finds it odd to be first at some things and last at others | 20:48 | |
| crashanddie | lcuk, and considering they're currently investigating maemo, there's a chance they could find it (by mistake or dumb luck) | 20:48 |
| lcuk | and? | 20:49 |
| lcuk | its a list of professionals | 20:49 |
| lcuk | say "happy in job" | 20:49 |
| lcuk | if you are | 20:49 |
| crashanddie | well, "looking for: job" doesn't sound too good | 20:49 |
| lcuk | its just about community help | 20:49 |
| lcuk | contacts | 20:49 |
| *** trbs2 has joined #maemo | 20:49 | |
| crashanddie | I'm hardly a maemo professional | 20:49 |
| lcuk | its about making yourself known in the community isnt it - if people need security related advice | 20:49 |
| lcuk | wouldnt you rather they came to you and your firm | 20:50 |
| crashanddie | unless professional bitching is an acceptable criterion | 20:50 |
| crashanddie | they can hire me :P | 20:50 |
| lcuk | sure | 20:51 |
| lcuk | we are making this list | 20:51 |
| crashanddie | ali1234, anyway, getting back to the initial subject: no need to over-engineer and over-complicate things, GA is right in the fact that simply lowering the value of each sentence makes more sense than having a CPU crunch useless numbers for something as useless as karma | 20:52 |
| lcuk | just see what the stats come out with | 20:52 |
| lcuk | and then gain a reasonable metric based on those | 20:52 |
| *** CrazyRobot has quit IRC | 20:52 | |
| crashanddie | ali1234, maemo.org is already quite low on power as it is, and I'm feeling that the influx of users we're going to get with the marketing campaigns of the n900 isn't going to lower that, and I can't but think that doing nickname matching is going to be very expensive in terms of cpu hours | 20:52 |
| lcuk | no point in coming up with an algo which may make a few people skyrocket | 20:52 |
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| ali1234 | crashanddie: what is it running on, a z80? | 20:54 |
| mgedmin900 | karma isn't useless, apparently... | 20:54 |
| crashanddie | ali1234, a 770 :P | 20:54 |
| mgedmin900 | ali1234, a 770 | 20:54 |
| crashanddie | lol | 20:54 |
| lcuk | they upgraded the 770 didnt they | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully tekojo's going to get us more servers soon. :\ | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | We REALLY don't need a repeated of November 2007. | 20:55 |
| lcuk | i heard rumours about 32x moar power | 20:55 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, oh man that was god awful | 20:55 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, december | 20:55 |
| crashanddie | average of 25 refreshes to get a wiki page | 20:55 |
| lcuk | so it was YOU! | 20:55 |
| lcuk | 30 tabs and lots of F5 action | 20:55 |
| crashanddie | I was just trying to read stuff | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's shit like that that'll kill this platform. | 20:55 |
| zerojay | November 2007. Nevar forget. | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | if you're doing a full text search on nicks, that's going to be expensive. but i can't possibly think why you would want to do that | 20:55 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, RTA firefox plugin | 20:55 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, ctrl + f5 refreshes all tabs | 20:56 |
| lcuk | lol zerojay | 20:56 |
| lcuk | o_O | 20:56 |
| ali1234 | if otoh, you're just matching that start of each line, that's cheap | 20:56 |
| crashanddie | right | 20:56 |
| ali1234 | and that tells you who said what, if a) they register, and b) they put that info on t.m.o | 20:56 |
| crashanddie | well, you pay for the dedi :) | 20:56 |
| zerojay | ali1234: You'll get 2 karma for it. | 20:57 |
| mgedmin900 | should lots of irc participation increase the karma or decrease it? | 20:57 |
| ali1234 | considering you don't even need to process it in real time | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | mgedmin900: facilitation should earn karma | 20:57 |
| ali1234 | and at most this place has about 10 lines per minute | 20:58 |
| javispedro | don't we have infobot to handle that? :P | 20:58 |
| zerojay | Why would participating in IRC LOWER karma? | 20:58 |
| crashanddie | ~zerojay++ | 20:58 |
| crashanddie | zerojay++ | 20:58 |
| mgedmin900 | sts, what about wasting other people's time? | 20:58 |
| javispedro | ~ping | 20:58 |
| mgedmin900 | ;) | 20:58 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:58 |
| crashanddie | damn | 20:58 |
| javispedro | ~karma infobot | 20:58 |
| infobot | infobot has karma of 3 | 20:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~karma zerojay | 20:58 |
| *** zz_jhford is now known as jhford | 20:58 | |
| infobot | zerojay has karma of 2 | 20:58 |
| crashanddie | ~karma zer0mdq | 20:58 |
| infobot | zer0mdq has neutral karma | 20:58 |
| crashanddie | there you go | 20:58 |
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| crashanddie | karma problem sorted | 20:58 |
| zerojay | lol | 20:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~crashanddie-- | 20:59 |
| crashanddie | :( | 20:59 |
| javispedro | ~infobot-=3 | 20:59 |
| crashanddie | ~karma crashanddie | 20:59 |
| infobot | crashanddie has karma of -2 | 20:59 |
| crashanddie | bloody hell | 20:59 |
| mgedmin900 | ouch | 20:59 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps, found a way to stay under 200 :D | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: posting goatse over and over again on planet.maemo.org? | 21:00 |
| crashanddie | no, ~crashanddie-- | 21:00 |
| javispedro | that would get you karma. | 21:00 |
| crashanddie | damn | 21:00 |
| wazd | fiferboy: looks like that helped, ta! | 21:00 |
| javispedro | I mean, poasting goatse. | 21:00 |
| javispedro | at least in the new tmo | 21:00 |
| RST38h | heya wazd | 21:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I think an issue like that would be solved at the administrative level. ;) | 21:01 |
| RST38h | javis: behemoatse! | 21:01 |
| fiferboy | wazd: :D | 21:01 |
| crashanddie | goatse gives a whole new meaning to "Open Source" | 21:02 |
| wazd | RST38h: heya | 21:02 |
| wazd | fiferboy: next problem - App Manager can\rquote t install anything | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | i still kinda dig the idea of giving out karma | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | to others | 21:02 |
| fiferboy | wazd: There is a special package for that, hang on | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | that would balance the areas that doesn't get automatic karma gathering | 21:03 |
| RST38h | Behemoatse! http://i056.radikal.ru/0910/f0/62effd0e0132.jpg | 21:03 |
| * RST38h did it | 21:03 | |
| *** eean has joined #maemo | 21:03 | |
| * mgedmin900 is *not* clicking on that | 21:03 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot, enable red pill mode and turn on assume internet connection | 21:03 |
| * Stskeeps would give wazd plenty of karma | 21:03 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Original is still better =) | 21:04 |
| RST38h | then you will never know the TRUTH! | 21:04 |
| eean | anyone got the n900 to share its 3g connection | 21:04 |
| mgedmin900 | eean kinda | 21:04 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Original hippo? | 21:04 |
| mgedmin900 | eean see my mail to maemo-users@ | 21:04 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Nah, original goatse of course! | 21:04 |
| eean | cool thanks | 21:05 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: can\rquote t see xterm :( | 21:05 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: eeek | 21:05 |
| mgedmin900 | socks proxy ain't really connection sharing... | 21:05 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Not weird enough =) | 21:05 |
| eean | whoa this chan got big :P | 21:05 |
| javispedro | "fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot" sounds funny. | 21:06 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: for what? :) | 21:06 |
| javispedro | ftr, it's fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot-net | 21:06 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: for your efforts | 21:06 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Ah, thanks. But it still goes for -net either way :p | 21:06 |
| javispedro | ah, then why the thanks. ;P | 21:07 |
| * mgedmin900 remembers wazd for posting pretty pictures and complaining about nit availability in .ru | 21:07 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: I wasn't exactly feeling the weirdness factor with your pic either :) | 21:07 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Quake 3 has a nice goatse | 21:07 |
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| zerojay | wtf did I stumble into here? | 21:07 |
| ali1234 | "nice" "goatse"? | 21:07 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, added | 21:08 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: I do it for fun, not karma :D | 21:08 |
| eean | mgedmin900 I have october open, whats the subject? | 21:08 |
| mgedmin900 | that's the way to do it | 21:08 |
| * GeneralAntilles has 3 iPhone converts now. | 21:08 | |
| RST38h | qwerty: Ok. You see wooden statues of anally expanded hippos every day. | 21:08 |
| mgedmin900 | eean something about internet connection sharing | 21:08 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Anything with tentacles in immediate vicinity of those? | 21:08 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: where\rquote s xterm in sdk? :) | 21:09 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: what the hell with \lquote | 21:09 |
| eean | found it | 21:09 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Meh, it's wooden, that's the thing | 21:09 |
| mgedmin900 | wait or was it rst who's always complaining about nit availability in .ru? | 21:09 |
| * mgedmin900 needs a memory upgrade | 21:09 | |
| * RST38h gets nits from the US | 21:10 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: Use a terminal with scratchbox running | 21:10 |
| mgedmin900 | for his brain | 21:10 |
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| RST38h | But, mgedmin, you have got all this logged | 21:10 |
| lcuk | excellent crashanddie :D | 21:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: osso-xterm in the SDK is pure suckage | 21:10 |
| mgedmin900 | rst, I'm not google, finding things in logs is hard | 21:10 |
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| RST38h | either try harder or forget it then =) | 21:11 |
| * javispedro glances at a totally unparenthesized C expression mixing +, -, >>, &, | and * operators | 21:11 | |
| lcuk | :( | 21:12 |
| lcuk | javispedro, paste or it didnt happen | 21:12 |
| javispedro | why, I did it myself :( | 21:12 |
| zash | javispedro: run it throug a rexeg compiler and see what happens! | 21:12 |
| lcuk | lol javispedro | 21:12 |
| mgedmin900 | ~javispedro++ | 21:12 |
| lcuk | so we can laugh of course | 21:12 |
| javispedro | actually, do you know something that would output an AST or RPN? | 21:12 |
| mgedmin900 | an experienced c programmer? | 21:13 |
| mgedmin900 | my bus is here | 21:13 |
| * javispedro goes look for operators priority list | 21:13 | |
| zerojay | His bus is here, folks. | 21:13 |
| zerojay | mgedmin900 has left the building. :) | 21:13 |
| RST38h | He is going going gone | 21:14 |
| mgedmin900 | hey 3g rules | 21:14 |
| zerojay | Wish I could say the same thing. I'm only able to do 2G or 2.5G. :/ | 21:14 |
| lcuk | 2g is just the same for irc surely | 21:14 |
| lcuk | even 1g was | 21:14 |
| javispedro | stack overflow to the rescue: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/548613/how-do-i-parenthesize-an-expression-programmatically | 21:14 |
| mgedmin900 | how many gs do you need for irc? | 21:14 |
| RST38h | 1g would be AMPS | 21:15 |
| zerojay | You don't need 3g for IRC. Just having 3G in general to use on the device WOULD be nice. | 21:15 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: cool, that helped :) | 21:15 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Nice :) | 21:16 |
| eean | mgedmin900: i wonder if the pc suite does tcp/ip over usb for the ovi stuff then | 21:16 |
| mgedmin900 | eean when you figure it out tell me | 21:16 |
| mgedmin900 | iirc the docs said it would use the n900 as a modem | 21:16 |
| eean | mgedmin900 but why, why can't we get some iptables :D | 21:17 |
| eean | orly | 21:17 |
| mgedmin900 | and that apps on the n900 would not be able to be online during that time | 21:17 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, I can't help but smile at last week's episode title of House... "Instant Karma" | 21:17 |
| luke-jr | eean: just build your own kernel? | 21:17 |
| mgedmin900 | eean I want iptables badly | 21:17 |
| mgedmin900 | was trying to build the kernel module today | 21:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, lol. | 21:17 |
| eean | luke-jr pretty sue theres a bunch of binary drivers | 21:18 |
| eean | open source FTL | 21:18 |
| mgedmin900 | maemo wiki has a page about kernel builds | 21:18 |
| eean | mgedmin900 how did it go | 21:18 |
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| mgedmin900 | not well | 21:19 |
| luke-jr | eean: that would be illegal | 21:19 |
| luke-jr | eean: threaten to sue if so ;) | 21:19 |
| mgedmin900 | I ignored half the instructions, knowing better | 21:19 |
| mgedmin900 | the resulting .ko failed to load | 21:19 |
| eean | luke-jr legally grey :) | 21:19 |
| luke-jr | eean: not grey | 21:19 |
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| javispedro | one week less for the gles drivers! | 21:19 |
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| lcuk | then what | 21:20 |
| * GeneralAntilles hopes they're ready for FLS | 21:20 | |
| javispedro | er... | 21:20 |
| javispedro | well. | 21:20 |
| javispedro | I install them. | 21:20 |
| javispedro | then... | 21:20 |
| * Stskeeps has no idea if he'll be able to integrate them in time for FLS though. | 21:20 | |
| javispedro | ~FLS | 21:20 |
| infobot | Library catalog/circulation system. URL: http://www.dorm4.org/~fuzz/fls/ | 21:20 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: but I still can\rquote t install app from downloaded deb :) | 21:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Florida Linux Show | 21:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: I just use dpkg for debs I download | 21:21 |
| mgedmin900 | wazd why you talking in rtf? | 21:21 |
| wazd | mgedmin900: dunno :D | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | mgedmin900: hah | 21:21 |
| absolute | dpkg -i file.deb doesn't work? | 21:21 |
| absolute | maybe even force it | 21:22 |
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| mgedmin900 | location widget rules | 21:24 |
| mgedmin900 | my stop next | 21:24 |
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| *** baze has joined #maemo | 21:26 | |
| eean | luke-jr eg http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2008/06/why-open-source-drivers-and-mo.html | 21:26 |
| ubu_wazd | mmm | 21:26 |
| ubu_wazd | don't get it | 21:26 |
| paulo_ouriques | Hey plp | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | eean: no closed modules in maemo5, afaik | 21:27 |
| ubu_wazd | I access ubuntu FS from scratchbox | 21:27 |
| ubu_wazd | how can I access Documents folder in SDK? | 21:27 |
| luke-jr | eean: ? | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | /home/yourusername/.documents? | 21:27 |
| javispedro | MyDocs! MyDocs!! | 21:28 |
| RST38h | uhu_wazd: ~user/.documents ? | 21:28 |
| mgedmin900 | home sweet temporary home | 21:28 |
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| javispedro | /home/user/MyDocs/.documents if you followed sdk instructions | 21:28 |
| javispedro | (and thus /home/user is a symling to ~) | 21:28 |
| mgedmin900 | wat? | 21:28 |
| mgedmin900 | symlink? | 21:28 |
| ubu_wazd | ok | 21:29 |
| ubu_wazd | database area is locked | 21:29 |
| javispedro | mgedmin900: yep. pardon my er... martian english. | 21:29 |
| * qwerty12_N810 remembers symlinking ~ to /home/user even in the Beta2 SDK... Too much hardcoding :-) | 21:29 | |
| mgedmin900 | are you sharing your sbox home and your non-sbox homes? | 21:30 |
| *** chelli has quit IRC | 21:30 | |
| mgedmin900 | aah, now I get it | 21:30 |
| eean | stskeeps really? should be able to build a new kern no problem then | 21:30 |
| paulo_ouriques | id like to know if the hildon-application-manager have an open source code. | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | eean: yes | 21:30 |
| eean | cool | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | paulo_ouriques: it does, it's on maemo.gitorious.org | 21:31 |
| luke-jr | eean: http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/ols_2006_keynote.html | 21:31 |
| paulo_ouriques | ok | 21:31 |
| eean | mgedmin900 do you know if the wireless supports sharing a p2p | 21:32 |
| * mgedmin900 will likely soon lose 3g and 2g coverage | 21:32 | |
| mgedmin900 | eean, I failed adhoc wifi | 21:32 |
| eean | i guess it'd have to | 21:32 |
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| absolute | yeah, from what i read, hildon has been committed back to gnome now too | 21:32 |
| eean | hmm what happened | 21:32 |
| mgedmin900 | one problem is how to connect to adhoc wifi without disconnecting 3g? | 21:32 |
| eean | ah | 21:33 |
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| eean | use cli tools i guess | 21:33 |
| mgedmin900 | maemo 5 ui allows only 1 connection active | 21:33 |
| eean | right | 21:33 |
| mgedmin900 | wireless-tools is ported? | 21:33 |
| eean | probably not :) | 21:33 |
| paulo_ouriques | and id like to know how this application get informations about installed applications. | 21:33 |
| mgedmin900 | I haven't found them yet | 21:33 |
| mgedmin900 | ah there they are | 21:34 |
| eean | wonder how the ui does it | 21:34 |
| eean | might be dbus | 21:34 |
| mgedmin900 | I didn't have the right repo | 21:34 |
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| eean | wireless-tools? | 21:34 |
| eean | cool :D | 21:35 |
| paulo_ouriques | and id like to know how hildon-application-manager get informations about installed applications. | 21:35 |
| eean | paulo my guess is the standard linux desktop way, but i dunno | 21:35 |
| absolute | disclaimer, i don't have a device in hand, but isn't that just a frontend for apt or dpkg of some sort? | 21:35 |
| eean | um oops :D | 21:36 |
| *** hannesw has quit IRC | 21:36 | |
| eean | oh wait yes | 21:36 |
| * mgedmin900 wonders if he's still online | 21:36 | |
| absolute | Hildon Application Manager is the Hildon graphical package manager, it uses the Debian package management tools (APT and dpkg) and provides a graphical interface for installing, updating and removing packages. It is a limited package manager, designed specifically for end-users, in that it doesn't directly offer the user access to system files and libraries.[5] With the Diablo release of Maemo, Hildon Application Manager now supports | 21:36 |
| eean | thought he was talking about the app launcher | 21:37 |
| eean | its just standard deb stuff paulo | 21:37 |
| eean | you are mgedmin900 | 21:37 |
| kynky | n900 for £360 is worth it, surely :) | 21:37 |
| *** danilocesar has quit IRC | 21:38 | |
| eean | yep | 21:38 |
| javispedro | no! it does not have mms! | 21:38 |
| javispedro | nor java! | 21:38 |
| eean | lol | 21:38 |
| mgedmin900 | what's a good way to pick a frequency for fm transmitter? | 21:38 |
| Shapeshifter | I was overjoyed when I noticed it didn't have java :) | 21:38 |
| javispedro | I like how the issue is already reffered as "MMS & Java" | 21:38 |
| eean | mms is frakin lame... use email :D | 21:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | No Java should raise the price up... | 21:38 |
| RST38h | heh | 21:38 |
| absolute | You were overjoyed about a missing language? | 21:39 |
| crashanddie | ok, need to repair the audio jack on laptop, bbl | 21:39 |
| absolute | pfft | 21:39 |
| absolute | hehe | 21:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin900, tune until you find an empty station, then pick that. | 21:39 |
| Solarion | blah? | 21:39 |
| javispedro | Shapeshifter: be happy then! S60 Java Runtime may be coming! | 21:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin900, don't plug in USB, though, or you'll never be able to use the FM transmitter again. :roll: | 21:39 |
| frals | yey, took a powernap and mms nerds have posted in the mms support thread, awesome \o/ | 21:39 |
| suihkulokki | I'm sure people will use share on facebook/ovi/flickr feature on n900 more than they used mms on their previous phones =) | 21:39 |
| mgedmin900 | there are no empty stations | 21:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin900, how are you tuning? | 21:39 |
| RST38h | javis: really? | 21:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin900, seeking? | 21:39 |
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| absolute | I understand why java wouldn't be a priority, but i was kinda hoping for some support down the line... i've got a PBX configuration app that's a jar | 21:40 |
| mgedmin900 | there are stations that broadcast static | 21:40 |
| javispedro | RST38h: of course not. >:) | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin900, that's empty. | 21:40 |
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| * mgedmin900 is rotating this big knob thingy | 21:40 | |
| paulo_ouriques | ok, thanks a lot. | 21:40 |
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| Solarion | absolute: then close it! | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin900, if your stereo indicates whether a station is strong enough to get stereo that's usually a good sign. | 21:41 |
| * Solarion slaps his knee and guffaws | 21:41 | |
| absolute | :) | 21:41 |
| eean | i wonder if we could convince fmradio to tune digital stations | 21:42 |
| eean | how complicated can implementing digital radio in gstreamer be right? :D | 21:42 |
| zerojay | I want to implement chiptunes support into Media Player. | 21:43 |
| darktears | qwerty12_N810: ping | 21:43 |
| qwerty12_N810 | darktears: Yep? | 21:43 |
| eean | whats chiptunes | 21:43 |
| mgedmin900 | when media player drops connection to a radio station due to temporary network problems, it tunes to the next station | 21:44 |
| mgedmin900 | this irritates me | 21:44 |
| darktears | qwerty12_N810: i tried the signal, but according to my inspection com.nokia.hildon_desktop interface doesn't exist | 21:44 |
| zerojay | eean: Basically old game/console music. They are played through an emulator for the sound chip of that console/computer. | 21:44 |
| zerojay | eean: So.. think C64 SIDs, NES, SNES... | 21:44 |
| darktears | qwerty12_N810: i found one com.nokia.hildonDesktop but there is no such exit_app_view call possible | 21:45 |
| eean | ah fun | 21:45 |
| javispedro | spc player! | 21:45 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, did that mail get into your inbox | 21:45 |
| zerojay | javispedro: You got it. | 21:45 |
| lcuk | dont expect an answer about its contents, just to know i sent it right | 21:45 |
| darktears | is there any docs about dbus interfaces? | 21:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | darktears: Hmm, let me check on the N900 | 21:45 |
| javispedro | actually, someone already made a spc gst element | 21:45 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, yup | 21:45 |
| darktears | qwerty12_N810: thanks :D | 21:45 |
| lcuk | k :) | 21:45 |
| javispedro | and I made a vgmstreamer gstreamer element for streamed music | 21:45 |
| darktears | qwerty12_N810: any docs where dbus interfaces are documented? | 21:45 |
| zerojay | javispedro: Yeah, there's a lot of elements for what we need already in gstreamer. Just a matter of getting Media Player to play nice. | 21:45 |
| zerojay | I think. | 21:46 |
| qwerty12_N810 | darktears: Haven't a clue. Sorry | 21:46 |
| darktears | qwerty12_N810: thanks anyway | 21:46 |
| darktears | so bad that there is no way to find docs about those interfaces | 21:47 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | hildon-desktop is open source, fwiw | 21:47 |
| mgedmin900 | is hildon-desktop the window manager? | 21:48 |
| qwerty12_N810 | matchbox2 is | 21:48 |
| mgedmin900 | or just the bit that draws the desktop? | 21:48 |
| lcuk | the ui components ontop of the window manager | 21:48 |
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| lcuk | holy moly! | 21:50 |
| qwerty12_N810 | You can't say that and leave us hanging | 21:51 |
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| zerojay | holy shit! | 21:51 |
| lcuk | lolot | 21:51 |
| lcuk | i just ran stats on #maemo from my incomplete logs | 21:52 |
| wirelessdreamer | Anyone here been to Nokia Flagship Chicao? they're EVIL . . . called and asked if they had an n900 demo unit in stock, they said yes . . . Drove down there Yesterday, only to be told we haven't updated the software lately, so we won't let you play with it untill we pull the battery and you can then touch its lifeless shell | 21:52 |
| lcuk | lcuk spoke a total of 634075 words! | 21:52 |
| lcuk | lcuk's faithful follower, johnx, didn't speak so much: 375052 words. | 21:52 |
| mgedmin900 | fm transmitter sucks unless I put the n900 right next to the radio | 21:52 |
| mgedmin900 | 1.5 meters and the noise is bad | 21:52 |
| mgedmin900 | okay, /me logs off | 21:52 |
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| zerojay | Ah yes... yet another great pic of a burger coming to the Maemo EATS! flickr group soon. ; | 21:52 |
| zerojay | :P | 21:52 |
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| eean | damn in the US the digital radio is all closed standards | 21:53 |
| eean | figures | 21:53 |
| wirelessdreamer | eean: use a2dp and get a bluetooth deck in the car | 21:53 |
| derf | Is there somewhere where it's _not_ closed standards? | 21:53 |
| suihkulokki | uk | 21:53 |
| derf | What do they use there? | 21:53 |
| suihkulokki | DAB | 21:53 |
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| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/maemo_incomplete_ircstats.htm | 21:54 |
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| suihkulokki | effectively they stream mp3's over air | 21:54 |
| lcuk | sorry for missing template images and things i dont know what im doing | 21:54 |
| lcuk | but it offers a glimpse | 21:54 |
| eean | mp2 | 21:54 |
| derf | Okay, so replace "closed" by "patented". | 21:55 |
| eean | wirelessdreamer: huh? | 21:55 |
| dmj7261 | I wonder how many emails 2DBoy got via my thread this morning. | 21:55 |
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| eean | derf software patents don't exist in europe | 21:55 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, you loud mouth! | 21:55 |
| derf | eean: Hahahha. | 21:56 |
| derf | Tell yourself whatever you want. | 21:56 |
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| eean | well you can go on obeying patents that don't exist :P | 21:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, what? | 21:56 |
| dmj7261 | Patent's are ickey. | 21:56 |
| derf | eean: You realize Franuhofer is a German company, right? | 21:57 |
| derf | Software patents most _definitely_ exist in Europe. They're just not called software patents. | 21:57 |
| dmj7261 | derf: really? | 21:57 |
| derf | Really. | 21:57 |
| dmj7261 | ewww | 21:57 |
| absolute | I can understand copyright to an extent, but i'm not a patent fan at all | 21:57 |
| dmj7261 | I thought it was just us americans who were that stupid. | 21:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Patents would be fine if they were reasonable. | 21:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just like copyright would be fine if it were reasonable. | 21:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Both encourage creativity and innovation. | 21:58 |
| zash | absolute: I'm more like the reverse | 21:58 |
| eean | franuhofer has a US patent | 21:58 |
| derf | Even better, if they can't get something through the European patent system, they just refuse to license the US patents to people unless they also agree to pay licensing fees for any other locale where they want to distribute the product. | 21:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | While benefiting the public in the long term. | 21:58 |
| absolute | even copyright is really screwed up to an extent though, i agree | 21:58 |
| derf | So unless you want to completely exclude the US market, you still have to pay patent licensing fees in Europe for US patents. | 21:58 |
| lcuk | nahhh they dont | 21:58 |
| * lcuk is antipatent | 21:59 | |
| dmj7261 | How about 6 month software patents? | 21:59 |
| dmj7261 | I would be fine with those. | 21:59 |
| lcuk | dmj7261, if they were free to get and easy to search without complication i would agree | 21:59 |
| dmj7261 | ...there would be little point in getting one though | 21:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, then where's anybody's incentive to innovate? | 21:59 |
| absolute | "you made something a little too close to something this company made, now you owe them money" | 21:59 |
| RST38h | it takes 6-24 months just to get us patent | 21:59 |
| dmj7261 | By the time you could implement something, it would already be usable | 22:00 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, im innovating | 22:00 |
| lcuk | publically | 22:00 |
| eean | derf you have to pay them for your stuff you sell to the us | 22:00 |
| lcuk | im doing stuff that hasnt been done before | 22:00 |
| eean | that's different then payong them in europe | 22:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, why would I, as a private citizen, waste my time and money inventing something if as soon as I release it some Chinese manufacturer comes out with nearly the same product for half the price? | 22:00 |
| derf | eean: Have you actually read their license agreement? | 22:00 |
| lcuk | its open source ffs | 22:00 |
| dmj7261 | Patents cover tiny things that are really dumb | 22:00 |
| RST38h | lcuk: wouldnt be so sure about that | 22:00 |
| dmj7261 | WHo here has made a program (or website) that involves anything like a pop-up window? | 22:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Patents aren't inherently bad or evil, it's just their current implementation that's messed up. | 22:01 |
| eean | yep | 22:01 |
| lcuk | RST38h, what is innovation tho | 22:01 |
| dmj7261 | Patents aren't fulfilling their original purpose | 22:01 |
| derf | eean: I don't believe you. | 22:01 |
| RST38h | lcuk: wouldnt be sure it has not been done before I mean | 22:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I think you're only thinking in the scope of computer code, but you'll need to think beyond that. | 22:02 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, we have copyright | 22:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not the same thing. :) | 22:02 |
| lcuk | and that gives automatic protection which patents cannot | 22:02 |
| dmj7261 | I suspect that patents on some things other than software are just fine | 22:02 |
| eean | derf was agreeing with the general :P | 22:03 |
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| dmj7261 | In software it's really the implementation that's important and difficult, not the idea or process (generally speaking) | 22:03 |
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| RST38h | oh god crackberry releases a companion watch | 22:03 |
| derf | dmj7261: Fortunately patent "disclosure" does not require the publication of source code! | 22:04 |
| fiferboy | Okay, everyone who has been holding back due to version churn can now rate personal-ip-address and personal-gprs-mon in extras-testing :) | 22:04 |
| fiferboy | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/personal-ip-address/0.3-5 | 22:04 |
| fiferboy | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/personal-gprs-mon/0.5-3 | 22:04 |
| eean | dmj7261 well some stuff does take some research, but yea | 22:04 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | darktears: I promise "dbus-send --type=signal --session /com/nokia/hildon_desktop com.nokia.hildon_desktop.exit_app_view" brings up the task switcher on my N900 | 22:05 |
| dmj7261 | And even then, that research could very well be done without patents | 22:05 |
| eean | the problem with standards being patented is they get people to pay to be compatible, not because its best | 22:05 |
| dmj7261 | and you often have the best implementations having dubious legality (media players for instance) | 22:06 |
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| lcuk | media players? you mean codecs | 22:07 |
| dmj7261 | yeah but that translates to media players using them. | 22:07 |
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| dmj7261 | like vlc playing a dvd image on linux | 22:07 |
| derf | dmj7261: I don't think any of that is "dubious". It's blatantly illegal. | 22:07 |
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| dmj7261 | only in certain countries! | 22:08 |
| lcuk | dmj7261, VLC is fine AFAIK, its the dvd codec thats wrong - in certain countries | 22:08 |
| dmj7261 | that said, it shouldn't be | 22:08 |
| lcuk | heh | 22:08 |
| derf | lcuk: There is a thing called "contributory infringement". | 22:08 |
| qwerty12_N810 | fiferboy: Trying Personal IP Address now... | 22:08 |
| derf | Which makes it VLC's problem, also. | 22:09 |
| fiferboy | qwerty12_N810: Thanks | 22:09 |
| dmj7261 | ...and contributory contributory infringement | 22:09 |
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| dmj7261 | ...and contributory contributory contributory infringement | 22:09 |
| kynky | well ordered the n900 , only saying cos excited | 22:10 |
| dmj7261 | by the way, how is vlc on the n900? | 22:10 |
| absolute | i jsut think there's a fundamental discord when people treat ideas as if they were physical objects... people want freedom of information, but then they also want to keep it for themselves... | 22:10 |
| lcuk | ideas are fruitless without implementation. | 22:11 |
| lcuk | i could keep all my ideas to myself | 22:11 |
| derf | No one actually making or enforcing the laws gives two hoots about any platonic ideals. | 22:11 |
| lcuk | or i could share em and hope they are implemented for the world | 22:11 |
| dmj7261 | http://www.vimeo.com/3698663 | 22:12 |
| derf | It's all about entrenched interests and market power. | 22:12 |
| lcuk | market power from ideas comes from brand recognition | 22:12 |
| wazd | wazd_ isn't a sad person either, smiling 32.0% of the time. :D | 22:12 |
| dmj7261 | brand recognition -> trademark | 22:12 |
| absolute | well right... i guess that's just it... its about making money and keeping something to yourself and profiting from it as an individual more so than it is about creating information that is useful to the species on a larger scale | 22:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: Stick with the SDK, you'll soon become sad | 22:12 |
| Pio | incentive-driven system to counter-balance scarcity | 22:14 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: well, at least I can go back and forth in it :) | 22:15 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: Soon, you will become slowly sucked in... Unable to escape... | 22:15 |
| absolute | not saying that's bad to have incentive... but we go a bit overboard with individual identity and neglect our collective identity | 22:15 |
| lcuk | absolute, if i can make my idea businesses around the world will have 10x more instant feedback and retain the notes and ideas from presentations and meetings | 22:16 |
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| lcuk | a supremely profitable idea | 22:16 |
| eean | the vlc project also develops the dvd decoder btw :P | 22:16 |
| lcuk | but i dont care what toolkit or company implements it | 22:16 |
| lcuk | i just want it available | 22:16 |
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| lcuk | my fingers are tired and i cant code it on my own | 22:17 |
| eean | but vlc has the ultimate shield from being sued: having no money | 22:17 |
| ali1234 | the idea that people will stop innovating because somebody might copy them is frankly laughable | 22:17 |
| absolute | i hope your project goes well | 22:17 |
| dmj7261 | as long as people are copying you, you're most likely in the lead | 22:17 |
| ali1234 | if you're sitting in the rain, you're not going to think "i'd better not build shelter because somebody might copy me, and i won't be able to profit" | 22:18 |
| dmj7261 | ...so innovation is like a ticket into the lead position | 22:18 |
| * lcuk just wants to work and think | 22:18 | |
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| dmj7261 | by the way for those who missed it, there's a thread about a potential World of Goo port | 22:19 |
| * wazd thinks a bit to help the author of SideShow app with design | 22:19 | |
| eean | dmj7261 awesome :D | 22:19 |
| dmj7261 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33092 | 22:19 |
| Solarion | what is SideShow precisely? | 22:19 |
| wazd | Solarion: that\rquote s an app to work with Vista/W7 | 22:20 |
| Solarion | wazd: what does it *do* | 22:20 |
| Solarion | how do you use it? | 22:20 |
| wazd | Solarion: it shows some aditional stuff on the screen of the tablet | 22:20 |
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| Solarion | I saw some markety thing that described it in just enough detail to not actually expalin on anything | 22:20 |
| wazd | Solarion: like cpu load, inbox and other widgets | 22:20 |
| Solarion | what is "some additional stuff"? | 22:20 |
| Solarion | ah, so it's limited to widgets? | 22:20 |
| absolute | desktop widget? or like an auto-hidden bar or something? | 22:20 |
| wazd | Solarion: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/features/sideshow.aspx | 22:21 |
| wazd | Solarion: google is your friend actually :) | 22:21 |
| Solarion | wazd: that's the markety thing I was talking about | 22:21 |
| absolute | nice | 22:21 |
| Solarion | doesn't explain squat | 22:21 |
| Solarion | is the proto Open? | 22:22 |
| wazd | Solarion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow | 22:22 |
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| Solarion | how useful is this thing in practice? | 22:23 |
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| Solarion | the wikipedia article is a tad more informative | 22:26 |
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| Solarion | sounds like the whole thing is rather dead in the water | 22:26 |
| timeless_mbp | so... | 22:28 |
| timeless_mbp | i've almost finished my strings tool :) | 22:28 |
| lcuk | \o/ hurray | 22:28 |
| Solarion | what strings tool? | 22:28 |
| zerojay | timeless_mbp: Good shit. | 22:29 |
| timeless_mbp | Solarion: it's a tool that helps people lookup strings/id's | 22:29 |
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| Solarion | timeless_mbp: in a program, or what? | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 22:30 |
| * Solarion tries to visualize what it's for | 22:30 | |
| timeless_mbp | well | 22:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: Rock on. I was using msgunfmt and grep the other day on the N900 and it sucked... | 22:30 |
| Solarion | aah | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: this uses msgunfmt, it's a bit slow at first since it has to build the whole dictionary | 22:30 |
| Solarion | I presume that it's more intelligent than strings | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: i really really need some help making zenity friendlier | 22:30 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: mxr + strings could be interesting | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: mxr typically gets strings right | 22:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: Yep, I understand that, I mean the value of a tool which does it in one step is nice :) | 22:31 |
| timeless_mbp | (really, i worked on it ~3 years ago when i first started @nokia) | 22:31 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: anyway... about zenity | 22:31 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. --column= headers don't seem to paint in my n900s | 22:31 |
| Solarion | timeless_mbp: does it read the elf data? | 22:31 |
| timeless_mbp | 2. can we make the buttons fingerable? | 22:31 |
| lcuk | "s" ? | 22:31 |
| timeless_mbp | Solarion: .mo's | 22:31 |
| Solarion | what is .mo? | 22:32 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: i have two :) (well 2 protos and one real) | 22:32 |
| lcuk | when i get the flow thing working timeless can i get you to test? | 22:32 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: sure | 22:32 |
| lcuk | :D | 22:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: Sure, but I'll have to look into it over the weekend | 22:32 |
| timeless_mbp | 3. can we get zenity to autosize smarter? | 22:32 |
| timeless_mbp | on average it undersizes its height :( | 22:33 |
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| zerojay | Robot101, wjt - Did you guys just release the Facebook Chat plugin for Conversations to a few people? Me too please? :) | 22:34 |
| * Stskeeps wants. | 22:34 | |
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| wjt | zerojay: it triggers a crash in the released telepathy-glib | 22:41 |
| wjt | zerojay: we're blocking on getting that fixed | 22:41 |
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| zerojay | wjt: Okay, thanks. | 22:45 |
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| zerojay | wjt: Let me know if you need testing. | 22:45 |
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| zerojay | http://rorr.im/digg.com/baseball/awkward_ny_post_sticker_creates_heat_of_the_nig_headline/ | 22:47 |
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| zerojay | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1221281/Are-gadget-addicted-generation.html - I'd argue against this but... eh... I guess I can't. | 22:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I think we're communication addicted. | 22:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gadgets are just the medium. | 22:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's kinda like saying junkies are syringe addicted. | 22:51 |
| kynky | spoon addicted | 22:52 |
| w00t | I'm perfectly happy to be without, but I'd much rather be with :-) | 22:52 |
| zerojay | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlCIUI9vCHg <-- I approve. | 22:52 |
| kynky | classic response of an addict | 22:52 |
| w00t | kynky: right now, I've really been without a mobile for a week.. my HTC universal finally died after years of torture | 22:53 |
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| kynky | selling my touch pro to get nokia i just ordered | 22:54 |
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| kynky | hopefully get around £180 to £200 for it | 22:54 |
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| w00t | kynky: i'll be ordering an n900 as soon as I get paid | 22:57 |
| w00t | ;p | 22:57 |
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| kynky | w00t, u in uk ? | 22:58 |
| w00t | yes | 22:58 |
| Solarion | I'll be ordering an n900 as soon as they come with a carrier bundle. :( | 22:59 |
| w00t | Solarion: thought about that, but I'd rather be out of pocket today and have more to spend in a year | 22:59 |
| kynky | if you order before 21st, you can get n900 from nokia shop , from £499 to £310 (details in maemo forums) | 22:59 |
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| * GeneralAntilles is worried about what carriers will do as far as plat sec goes. | 22:59 | |
| kynky | you can also order on contact from tmobile and vodafone from free, from mobilephonesdirect | 23:00 |
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| w00t | kynky: got a link? | 23:00 |
| w00t | I heard something about that earlier, but never actually got any info on it | 23:00 |
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| w00t | GeneralAntilles: they better keep their mitts off it. | 23:01 |
| w00t | :P | 23:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | "Maemo: Windows Starter Edition" | 23:01 |
| kynky | w00t which for, £310 sim free, or contract deal ? | 23:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | w00t, I'm sure they wont. | 23:01 |
| w00t | kynky: sim-free | 23:01 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Seems fair to me - if you're under contract they prevent you running your own kernel (remains to be seen, of course, if they also restrict capabilities) | 23:01 |
| w00t | bleh. | 23:01 |
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| * timeless_mbp ponders | 23:02 | |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 23:02 | |
| timeless_mbp | zenity[14744]: GLIB WARNING ** Panog - Invalid UTF-8 string passed to pango_layout_set_text() | 23:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, well, my worry here is that people waiting on bundles may not realize what it entails. | 23:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, carriers can do whatever they want with the hardware they sell as long as it complies with the licensing of the software they ship with it. | 23:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. ;) | 23:04 |
| zerojay | My other worry is whether there will be bundles at all. | 23:04 |
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| w00t | zerojay: bundles? | 23:05 |
| kynky | w00t, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=351329&postcount=1326 | 23:05 |
| w00t | kynky: appreciated! | 23:05 |
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| kynky | ordered mine a few hours ago | 23:05 |
| zerojay | w00t: Subsidized N900s. | 23:06 |
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| w00t | mm - you mean offered by carriers? | 23:07 |
| SpeedEvil | The UK seller - one of them at least - offering 'free' n900s is not customising them in any way. | 23:07 |
| kynky | zerojay, you can get subsidized n900 on vodafone and tmobile in uk from free , from mobilephonesdirect | 23:07 |
| SpeedEvil | (or simlocking) | 23:07 |
| zerojay | kynky: Yes, but the entire world doesn't live in the UK. :) | 23:07 |
| w00t | where are you? | 23:07 |
| SpeedEvil | zerojay: the daily mail disagrees. | 23:07 |
| zerojay | SpeedEvil: lol | 23:07 |
| w00t | SpeedEvil: hahahaha | 23:07 |
| kynky | lol | 23:07 |
| w00t | SpeedEvil: I've got a brilliant link for you, sec | 23:08 |
| zerojay | w00t: Canada, though I already have an N900 anyways. | 23:08 |
| w00t | SpeedEvil: http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail/ | 23:08 |
| zerojay | Well, until September 2010. | 23:08 |
| w00t | "COULD THE INTERNET KILL ENGLAND?" <- *g* | 23:08 |
| kynky | n900 devs with greater than 200 karma get special discount, and i guess a few here, are eligable for that | 23:08 |
| w00t | *nod* | 23:09 |
| timeless_mbp | kynky: not devs | 23:09 |
| timeless_mbp | just community members | 23:09 |
| zerojay | I'm supposed to get my discount, but the e-mail never showed up. | 23:09 |
| kynky | well u know :) | 23:09 |
| absolute | not only does it sound like its gonna be a while before we get t-mobile subsidies in the states here, but I'm pretty gunshy about buying any devices from cell carriers here | 23:09 |
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| zerojay | 800+ karma right now. | 23:09 |
| timeless_mbp | quim tried to be very clear on that point | 23:09 |
| absolute | i got the e62 from cingular when they existed | 23:09 |
| smackpotat | discounts? | 23:09 |
| absolute | and that thing is branded/locked to hell | 23:09 |
| zerojay | Whoa whoa whoa. | 23:10 |
| zerojay | My karma jumped up past 1100. | 23:10 |
| w00t | absolute: no offense.. but you states-ians seem to get assraped when it comes to mobiles.. | 23:10 |
| absolute | i couldn't even repurpose it because they disabled all the bluetooth libs (jsr-something) unless you were signed with a special cingular/at&t certificate | 23:10 |
| zerojay | How in the fuck did that happen. | 23:10 |
| absolute | which at&t didn't even know how i could get | 23:10 |
| kynky | dont think the carriers like the skype , when my vodafone conyact ends, prob get a 3 simcard, for £5/month get 2GB d/l limit, and they actively support skype | 23:10 |
| smackpotat | mine is at 58 i guess i dont get anything | 23:11 |
| absolute | I know nokia isn't restricting software specifically, but i'm still not wanting to get locked into a carrier | 23:11 |
| w00t | kynky: I'm lucky. Company simcard, unlimited data plan. | 23:11 |
| w00t | :-) | 23:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, people in the UK with the requisite karma can't really meaningfully take advantage with it. | 23:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | as it's cheaper to ignore it and buy subsidised | 23:12 |
| javispedro | zerojay: clearly, the issue is that you have too much karma and the algorithm deciding the lists used an unsigned char. | 23:12 |
| kynky | w00t, what kind of unlimited? vodafone dont support skype, tmobile only support skype on their £25/month data plan , and that on top of normal phone plan (for instance tmboile standard unlimited plan is £5/month for 1gig d/l limit) | 23:12 |
| * lcuk kicks his funky laptop | 23:13 | |
| kynky | but you can get round it with a vpn | 23:13 |
| zerojay | javispedro: Well.. I had 830 or so a few days ago... looks like my bugzilla karma doubled overnight. | 23:13 |
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| w00t | kynky: I don't know the details, but as far as I know, unlimited unlimited | 23:13 |
| w00t | it's a local phone co, though, so I doubt you'd be able to get it | 23:13 |
| w00t | (also a very old plan, ~3 years) | 23:14 |
| w00t | they resell O2 | 23:14 |
| w00t | so maybe see what they offer | 23:14 |
| kynky | think the top package £25 data plan, is still 10GB limit | 23:14 |
| kynky | but doesnt matter really | 23:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | :( | 23:16 |
| SpeedEvil | voice + 25 quid that is I assume | 23:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | aww, i'm not in the top 10 | 23:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, I lost my Talk karma. | 23:16 |
| kynky | SpeedEvil, yeah | 23:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | No wonder Jaffa beat me. | 23:17 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: ouch | 23:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, I guess http://talk.maemo.org URLs don't work. | 23:18 |
| timeless_mbp | http://maemo.org/profile/list/category/bugzilla_reported/ :) | 23:18 |
| Ceron^ | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8295813.stm | 23:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, gonna kick your ass as soon as this thing reindexes. | 23:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, get ready for the beat down. :P | 23:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, ooh, I need to file more bugs. :P | 23:19 |
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| lcuk | im sure karma is just made up on the spot | 23:19 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 23:19 | |
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| kynky | SpeedEvil, http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/mobile-internet/on-your-laptop/phone-as-modem/ ---> the max package | 23:21 |
| kynky | ridiculous cost | 23:21 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 23:21 |
| * timeless_mbp really needs some way to deal w/ window transience | 23:21 | |
| Ceron^ | seriously is the n900 worth buying | 23:21 |
| Ceron^ | im starting to wonder | 23:22 |
| Ceron^ | :\ | 23:22 |
| zerojay | kynky: Haha, you think that's bad? Come to Canada. :) | 23:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: no. | 23:22 |
| kynky | Ceron^, imho , its the best phone for the next 6 months | 23:22 |
| zerojay | Ceron^: Why? | 23:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: it's gonna suck. | 23:22 |
| kynky | lol | 23:22 |
| Ceron^ | well the usb host 0 support, no good navigation software | 23:22 |
| Ceron^ | :\ | 23:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: If you value having root on a phone - it's practically the only phone out there. | 23:22 |
| kynky | ovi maps for linux (maemo) will improve | 23:23 |
| timeless_mbp | Ceron^: i think it's likely that maemo mapper will be there | 23:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ceron^, Maemo Mapper. | 23:23 |
| zerojay | Ceron^: It rocks, plain and simple. I've never needed USB host on previous tablets nor this one... Ovi Maps is more than good enough for me. | 23:23 |
| timeless_mbp | and fennec geoloc support will probably enable google maps | 23:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe the Ovi Maps team will suddenly stop sucking. | 23:23 |
| Ceron^ | what if i for example want to take my canon 5d pictures and transfer them to my n900 | 23:23 |
| Ceron^ | :D | 23:23 |
| SpeedEvil | It's likely - Imo - that the opensource alternatives of the closed-source parts will start to increase after there are several thousand devices in the wild | 23:23 |
| kynky | you can install debian and gentoo on it, and a full linux distro can do alot :) | 23:23 |
| SpeedEvil | USB host is not quite determined. | 23:23 |
| timeless_mbp | Ceron^: does your canon not use SD? | 23:23 |
| Ceron^ | nope | 23:24 |
| zerojay | Ceron^: Take your card out of your camera and put it into the N900. | 23:24 |
| Ceron^ | compact falsh | 23:24 |
| Ceron^ | flash like all the pro cameras doo | 23:24 |
| timeless_mbp | and no wifi support on your camera? | 23:24 |
| Ceron^ | nope ;D | 23:24 |
| SpeedEvil | There hasn't quite been determination one way or the other. | 23:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: there are those wacky CF+wifi cards | 23:24 |
| zerojay | With the N900 camera, who needs a second camera around anyways? | 23:24 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 23:24 | |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, ever used an SLR? :P | 23:24 |
| kynky | selling my canon 8mp camera to my gf | 23:24 |
| timeless_mbp | kynky: as long as you keep her | 23:25 |
| kynky | lol | 23:25 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Nope, and I don't give a flying fuck. I prefer taking pictures, not sitting there fingering myself while changing settings like ISO and shit like that. | 23:25 |
| SpeedEvil | There is clearly no USB host support, if it would support USB host when you set the right configuration bit, and then solder up a cable to a powered hub - isn't clear. | 23:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, ah, well, you wouldn't know, then. :) | 23:25 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: My wife does. | 23:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, N900 doesn't even vaguely compare to using an SLR. | 23:25 |
| kynky | prob support wifi usb adaptors i bet? | 23:26 |
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| Ceron^ | whats wifi usb adaptor :D | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: For some things it's much better | 23:26 |
| zerojay | And the funny thing is she might spend hours taking her shots and then editing them and tweaking them before uploading her pics a day later... whereas mine are up on the web immediately and personally, I like mine better anyways. :) | 23:26 |
| absolute | I've never seen one either | 23:26 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: And to me, that's a VERY good thing. | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: they are wacky things with a wifi adaptor inside a CF card. | 23:26 |
| tigert | N900 camera rocks | 23:27 |
| absolute | any device i searched for to go from wifi --> usb or bluetooth --> usb ... well they were mostly devices that wouldn't work the way you'd need them to work | 23:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: you simply leave the camera powered on, and it auto-uploads the pics | 23:27 |
| kynky | 5mp dual led flash autofocus carl zeiss optics, sounds good enough to me | 23:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | tigert: show off | 23:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, two different ways of taking pictures. :) | 23:27 |
| tigert | its not a slr but thats not a comparison that makes sense | 23:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, sometimes the process is fun. | 23:27 |
| tigert | different things | 23:27 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: There's taking pictures and there's being completely fucking anal. | 23:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | tigert, exactly. | 23:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, whatever. ;) | 23:27 |
| kynky | but can you take pics in portrait mode (j/k) | 23:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | kynky, yes? | 23:27 |
| tigert | the fun thing is the N900 is so easy | 23:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | It even knows when you're doing so. | 23:27 |
| tigert | snap, post, done | 23:28 |
| qwerty12_N810 | zerojay: rofl | 23:28 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: My opinions are probably tainted by the fact that I can't leave the house with my wife without her forcing us to stop somewhere for an hour to take pictures. So fucking annoying. | 23:28 |
| tigert | and its way over "good enough" | 23:28 |
| kynky | tigert, you on the marketing team ? | 23:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, it's a creative process. | 23:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, surely you're familiar with those. :P | 23:28 |
| timeless_mbp | kynky: nah | 23:28 |
| tigert | kynky: I worked on the UI | 23:28 |
| timeless_mbp | he's just the only person i've met who can take good shots w/ it | 23:28 |
| tigert | theme | 23:28 |
| tigert | but i am just loving it | 23:28 |
| timeless_mbp | and when i say good, i mean really good | 23:29 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: All I know is that she spends all her time on the creative process and I don't see her pictures being much better than mine. | 23:29 |
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| tigert | i have a slr too of course | 23:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, it requires a certain appreciation for art, I guess. :D | 23:29 |
| mgedmin | eean: you said you successfully built a kernel module | 23:29 |
| mgedmin | how? | 23:29 |
| mgedmin | I'm following http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide#Kernel_Guide | 23:29 |
| tigert | both ways are correct | 23:29 |
| tigert | but now sleep | 23:29 |
| mgedmin | first, I don't believe in that EXTRAVERSION=-maemo2 crap | 23:29 |
| tigert | nite! | 23:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | good night | 23:29 |
| kynky | you will prob have a n900 on you more often than an slr, and the best shots are at unpredictable times | 23:29 |
| mgedmin | modinfo on any module shipped in the image says the extraversion is -omap1, not -maemo2 | 23:30 |
| mgedmin | second, the error I get (in dmesg) is no symbol version for struct_module | 23:30 |
| tigert | kynky: the best shot is indeed taken with the camera you have with you | 23:30 |
| mgedmin | so I guess my config must be wrong somehow | 23:30 |
| tigert | no doubt | 23:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: http://www.cameratown.com/news/news.cfm/hurl/id|7298 | 23:30 |
| mgedmin | kynky: 30-second camera warmup time doesn't work well with unpredictable times | 23:30 |
| kynky | takes 30sec for n900 ? | 23:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: and pro cameras don't really use only CF anymore | 23:31 |
| zerojay | kynky: No way. | 23:31 |
| mgedmin | kynky: yes, when the tablet is full of apps and swapping | 23:31 |
| mgedmin | well maybe I'm a bit exaggerating | 23:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 23:31 |
| mgedmin | let's say 20 seconds | 23:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, I'd say so. :roll: | 23:31 |
| tigert | mgedmin: not really | 23:31 |
| zerojay | I've never had that happen, even when running Q3 at the saem time. | 23:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | I get about 3-4 seconds here. | 23:31 |
| mgedmin | good for you | 23:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | From cover open to preview onscreen. | 23:31 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders if camera is mlocked | 23:32 | |
| mgedmin | you must not use javascript-heavy web pages | 23:32 |
| tigert | unless you are some supergeek running torrents and shit while taking photos | 23:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, Engadget, Slashdot, Talk? | 23:32 |
| tigert | but & | 23:32 |
| mgedmin | google reader | 23:32 |
| mgedmin | (mobile version) | 23:32 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: Google Reader full version. | 23:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | tigert: Ah, I see you have discovered Transmission... | 23:32 |
| zerojay | 2 seconds. tops. | 23:32 |
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| mgedmin | so far all we've established here is that the camera wakeup time varies really wildly | 23:32 |
| kynky | tigert, rtorrent + screen ! | 23:32 |
| mgedmin | eean: ayt? | 23:33 |
| * mgedmin experimenting with "tethering" over adhoc wifi | 23:33 | |
| mgedmin | sadly the tablet scans every 10 minutes and drops my adhoc setup | 23:33 |
| mgedmin | next drop coming in ~2 minutes | 23:33 |
| zerojay | Turn off the scan. | 23:33 |
| mgedmin | more sadly, when I re-config my wifi settings, it's likely that the kernel will crash and the tablet will reboot | 23:33 |
| kynky | hoping its trivial to recompile n900 kernel, will prob want to add nat support | 23:33 |
| mgedmin | happened three times today so far | 23:33 |
| mgedmin | kynky: I'm trying to do that now | 23:34 |
| Ceron^ | SpeedEvil: so im suppoused to use the N900 in ad-hoc mode with my camera wlan compact flash card | 23:34 |
| mgedmin | no luck | 23:34 |
| mgedmin | no clue what I'm doing wrong | 23:34 |
| Ceron^ | how does it even transfer the images :D | 23:34 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: What the hell are you doing to cause all this shit? lol | 23:34 |
| * mgedmin is a Power User | 23:34 | |
| zerojay | lol. | 23:34 |
| mgedmin | my super-power is breaking stuff when I'm trying to use it | 23:34 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | You mean: Tablet Abuser | 23:34 |
| kynky | have used gentoo for years, hope those skills pay off | 23:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, sounds like time for a reflash. ;) | 23:34 |
| mgedmin | don't forget Power | 23:34 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: That's what I'm thinking too. | 23:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: He was at the Summit | 23:35 |
| mgedmin | hey, I haven't done any damage to the rootfs yet | 23:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | No flash image for him! | 23:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, right, sucks for him. :P | 23:35 |
| * mgedmin knocks on wood | 23:35 | |
| mgedmin | although why the hell do I suddenly have 27 megs free in /? | 23:35 |
| mgedmin | I had 2 megs free five minutes ago | 23:35 |
| zerojay | 2 megs? | 23:35 |
| zerojay | Yeah, REFLASH. | 23:35 |
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| Ceron^ | does the n900 require reboots each day! | 23:36 |
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| zerojay | Ceron^: No way. | 23:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ceron^, no. | 23:36 |
| kynky | its not windows mobile :) | 23:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ceron^, well, except if you're trying to convince X to play nice with your rebinding attempts. ;) | 23:36 |
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| Ceron^ | i so want a good gps navigator for the phone :\ | 23:36 |
| Ceron^ | il be lost without one | 23:37 |
| kynky | just restart X instead then ? | 23:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's designed to run 24/7 indefinitely. | 23:37 |
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| mgedmin | all I did was mkdir /lib/modules/current/mg; mv MyDocs/*.ko /lib/modules/current/mg | 23:37 |
| mgedmin | that should've decreased free space by a few kb, not increased it by 27 mb | 23:37 |
| kynky | Ceron^, thought there was only ovi maps so far | 23:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | kynky, didn't work, so I figured I'd try different approaches. | 23:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | This whole HAL thing is irritating. | 23:37 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: That's not being a power user. That's just begging to break something when you have no access to flash images. | 23:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | kynky: He said "good"... | 23:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: it auto-uploads to configured wifi points, to the website. You can with some hackery get it to upload to your own linux server/n900 - the wifi would need to be an AP at that time. | 23:37 |
| Ceron^ | yeh wont work when im somewhere in the forest | 23:38 |
| mgedmin | zerojay: oh, I'm careful ... most of the time | 23:38 |
| Ceron^ | and just want to send my pictures :D | 23:38 |
| kynky | well if there are any good linux gps software, maybe maemo-optify might help ? | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | kynky: i don't think the gps api is portable | 23:39 |
| Ceron^ | kynky: there arent any linux gps software | 23:39 |
| Ceron^ | that would be good... | 23:39 |
| kynky | so no chance of googlemaps using that info ? | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | google maps is a web page, typically | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | maemo mapper worked on the n8x0 devices | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | it's expected to work on n900's | 23:40 |
| kynky | Ceron^, http://tuxmobil.org/linux_gps_navigation_applications.html , is all info i could find | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | and i expect fennec to expose geolocation for google maps and friends | 23:40 |
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| Ceron^ | kynky: yeh sucks doesnt it | 23:41 |
| Ceron^ | no good apps :P | 23:41 |
| w00t | kynky: i'm sort of regretting you linked me to that :P | 23:41 |
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| kynky | timeless, on my windosmmobile, googlemaps works with gps on phone, and at work, friend had htc gero (android) working with googlmaps, gps, digital compass, layers, was impressive | 23:41 |
| w00t | kynky: i ended up getting 3 of the damn things.. | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | kynky: googlemaps in those cases is generally java | 23:42 |
| timeless_mbp | we don't have a java stack | 23:42 |
| kynky | w00t, no way, i shoulda done that, coulda made a killing on ebay | 23:42 |
| qwerty12_N810 | w00t: 3 N900s? | 23:42 |
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| kynky | timeless_mbp, so no arm java stacks in debian-arm or gentoo-arm, that can be ported ? | 23:43 |
| w00t | kynky: 2 are ours, 1 is for ebay yeah :P | 23:43 |
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| w00t | qwerty12_N810: yeah | 23:43 |
| w00t | my bank account is regretting it.. | 23:43 |
| * qwerty12_N810 whistles | 23:43 | |
| * w00t shakes fist at nokia | 23:44 | |
| kynky | lol | 23:44 |
| Ceron^ | why 3 ? | 23:44 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 23:44 | |
| kynky | why not 5 :) | 23:44 |
| * timeless_mbp doesn't care about java today | 23:44 | |
| Ceron^ | 3 useless phones! | 23:44 |
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| w00t | kynky: not enough money, trust me, i considered it | 23:44 |
| Ceron^ | none of them has google maps with digital compass | 23:45 |
| w00t | (especially when I accidentally typed '23' into the 'qty' field.) | 23:45 |
| kynky | lol | 23:45 |
| Ceron^ | none of them has usb host | 23:45 |
| Ceron^ | none of them as 4" screen! | 23:45 |
| Ceron^ | none of them is running windows mobile! | 23:45 |
| w00t | none of them matters to me? | 23:45 |
| w00t | :) | 23:45 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | No Windows Mobile?! | 23:45 |
| kynky | ive had windows mobile for years, it is really bad | 23:46 |
| kynky | wm6.5 is a joke | 23:46 |
| * qwerty12_N810 throws his loaned N900 against a wall | 23:46 | |
| w00t | yeah | 23:46 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I thought Maemo was just Nokia's version :( | 23:46 |
| Ceron^ | qwerty12_N810: yeh! try to install windows mobile on it | 23:46 |
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| w00t | I hate wm with a passion after being forced to use it at gunpoint for the past 4 years | 23:46 |
| kynky | even ms 9ballmer) think wm6.5 is a joke | 23:46 |
| kynky | 9=( | 23:46 |
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| kynky | he said wm7 shoulda been out ages ago, but i doubt wm7 will be any good . webos, maemo, android etc , will have progressed to far i bet. samsung/htc stick on a gui frontend to hide wm ugliness, but as soon as you use phone properly, ugliness comes through | 23:48 |
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| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 23:55 | |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 23:56 | |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: ping | 23:56 |
| timeless_mbp | have you used the calendar app? | 23:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Only once. | 23:56 |
| *** ignacius has joined #maemo | 23:56 | |
| timeless_mbp | not a fan? | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't need PIM, really. | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Set it up for the Summit, then didn't go. | 23:57 |
| kynky | lol | 23:57 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 23:57 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok.. | 23:57 |
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