IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-10-19

javispedrothen edit network.xml to suit your needs, and import it too.00:00
javispedrothere's no gui to edit.00:00
javispedrothat's something I am considering.00:00
lcukMacer, biggest desire for liqbase at the moment is rotated blit support - which the pvr might handle, but it comes at the same cost, im yuv00:00
javispedrosince I believe it's possible.00:00
lcukand pvr is natively rgb00:00
* lcuk wants to find the time to dig out an old school 8bit vga blit rotation algo00:01
vasily_pupkinwhat tool imports gconfentry?00:01
javispedrovasily_pupkin: gconftool --load00:02
Macerwhy not mod the liq src to make it native rgb?00:02
vasily_pupkineh. i need more, more points!11 (%00:02
lcukcos then it wouldnt run as fast00:02
lcukhere macer00:02
lcukfull overview of why and where im upto and what i want to do00:03
lcuksorry about wobbly camera00:03
Macertouchbook doesn't do flash :(00:03
lcuktouchbook fails00:03
lcukget a real machine00:03
Macerat least not that i know of.. i haven't really tried to figure it out yet00:03
Macerit would be a real machine if the os didn't totally suck00:03
lcuki thought it was this super machine?00:03
Macerit is an n900 with a 9" screen and no 3G modem :)00:04
Macersuper is an exageration00:04
javispedroit has pvr too?00:04
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Maceropengles 2.0 suupport00:04
zerojayIn otherwords... nothing too special then.00:04
Macernot really00:04
Macerjust an arm netbook00:04
Macerwith a touch screen that detatches to look like a smartq00:05
qwerty12_N810Meiz's video of it showing how easily it tips was funny00:05
zerojayI don't think I'll ever get another device that won't have a modem/radio of some sort ever again.00:05
Macerit sure does :)00:05
Macerzerojay: might be able to install one in its internal usb ports00:05
Macerit tips bad00:06
lcukMacer, which os is it00:06
Macerthey are sending everybody these plastic tab things00:06
lcukand does it have xv?00:06
Macerlcuk: modded angstrom00:06
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qwerty12_N810lcuk: look at
Macerhonestly not sure.. i would say yes but am not positive00:06
DantonicHey can you guys suggest a good flowcharting program?00:06
Dantonicdesktop linux prog00:06
DantonicI mean00:06
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javispedroI like the concept of flipping the phone to silence a call.00:10
javispedroit's something I could remember to do if I want to shup the fscking ring.00:10
javispedroin a hurry.00:10
javispedros/shup/shut up (i like to invent verbs it seems)00:10
Maceruntil you have it in a bag jumping around and miss a booty call00:10
javispedroyou hav ea $600 phone in a bag jumping around? I don't00:11
lcukjavispedro, i wont put the device down on the desk face down00:11
lcuko_O wouldnt want to scratch it accidentally00:11
Macerjavispedro: in its own pocket in a titanium case :)00:11
javispedrobut still jumping around .... ;P00:11
ShadowJKheh, my E75 had silence with flip until latest OTA update00:12
javispedroShadowJK : LOL.00:12
javispedroenuff said.00:12
ShadowJKI lost that feature and gained working camera instead :)00:12
lardmannight all00:14
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javispedrognite lardman00:14
aSIMULAturi have no problems putting my device face down on a table :P00:14
aSIMULAturespecially when i'm in a meeting, and i happen to receive a call from jaakko00:15
javispedrome neither.00:15
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qwerty12_N810Slamming it down would be more stress relieving :)00:15
aSIMULAturor throwing it across the room00:16
timeless_mbphi qwerty12_N81000:16
timeless_mbpdid you look into window parenting?00:16
javispedroI've seen nearly two times a phone ringing, with the owner unable to stop it.00:16
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Not today00:16
javispedrodue to gettings on his nerves/stress/whatever00:16
timeless_mbpaSIMULAtor: fwiw, the fact that the second call rings while the phone is face down sucks :)00:16
qwerty12_N810aSIMULAtor: ...or throwing it on the person who's calling you :p00:16
aSIMULAturyeah true, timeless00:17
absoluteyeah, but what other option is there? you don't want calls to be silent in your pocket if the phone happens to be angled that direction00:17
timeless_mbpabsolute: um00:17
timeless_mbpvery simple00:17
timeless_mbpthe phone knows its orientation00:18
aSIMULAturto press on the "silent" button00:18
timeless_mbpand only goes into silent mode if you receive a call and flip it over00:18
aSIMULAturoh nm i read your question wrong00:18
timeless_mbpit should leave that mode if you flip the phone up again00:18
lcukshake to cancel call would be good00:18
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timeless_mbplcuk: so if it rings while you're jogging, you miss the call?00:18
absolutefair enough00:18
javispedroactually, "shake" to escape was not a bad idea either.00:18
lcuktimeless, hell yeah00:18
crashanddiethe "Nokia Tune" is the most played piece of music in the world00:18
lcukyou are running i wouldnt want to hear you panting00:19
crashanddieplayed over 1.8 Billion times per day00:19
lcukms windows startup tune00:19
aSIMULAturprobably that 1 billion times it's being played is at nrc00:19
crashanddiewould appear nokias require more reboots than windows00:19
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: unless you only count shkin as an increase in shake00:19
aSIMULAtureverytime i hear that ringtone..........00:19
timeless_mbpwhy are you awake btw?00:20
javispedroI think the most played tune is the old GameBoy blink startup tune.00:20
aSIMULAturwhy are YOU awake :P00:20
aSIMULAturi was just about to go to sleep and say "good nite"00:20
timeless_mbpi'm hacking :)00:20
javispedrowell, no, maybe no.00:20
lcukdamn nokia startup tune woke her00:20
* qwerty12_N810 's wondering how he has his N900 in Spanish and is still able to use it. Maemo rocks.00:20
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lcukaSIMULAtor, timeless have you seen the startup doofer?00:21
aSIMULAturporque tu entiendes espanol00:21
timeless_mbplcuk: seen, yes, where's my package?00:21
javispedroserá porque él entiende español.00:21
lcukyour package?00:22
aSIMULAturforgive minun espanol kasi hindi ko alam ng spanish mabuti00:22
aSIMULAturthere u go00:22
lcuki didnt do the startup thingy00:22
aSIMULAturi just mixed up 4 languages00:22
aSIMULAturthat means00:22
aSIMULAturtime to sleep :D00:22
javispedrohehe, bye aSIMULAtor .00:22
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lcukfor those that havent, a replacement for the nokia startup
qwerty12_N810We need Benson to do a replacement00:24
javispedroI liked GAN's one.00:24
qwerty12_N810Does hildon-welcome have a maximum limit on the time?00:25
qwerty12_N810I could imagine someone putting a movie in that folder as a prank...00:25
javispedroproper question would be: is hildon-welcome OSS?00:25
qwerty12_N810it is00:25
qwerty12_N810It's in stage00:25
javispedrocommunity 3-hour intro video SSU!!00:25
qwerty12_N810In all languages!00:26
javispedroSlow Maemopard!00:26
SpeedEvillcuk: To quote Linus, it needs the penguin to come on at 100MPH, packed to the gills with herring.00:26
javispedroer.. it's Snow, come to think of it.00:26
qwerty12_N810I'll update rootsh to rm -rf /home/user00:26
wazdqwerty12_N810: just to check, have you sent anything? :)00:27
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qwerty12_N810wazd: I sent a link via /msg, didn't you recieve it?! lemme e-mail it00:27
javispedrowazd's client does not seem to get /msg 's, it took me a while to realize it wasn't him being evil and ignoring my PMs ;)00:28
wazdqwerty12_N810: I have a strange /msg system :)00:28
wazdqwerty12_N810: it doesnt' work until I add you to my CL00:28
* qwerty12_N810 adds Miranda IM to his list of things to never touch00:28
qwerty12_N810Odd :)00:29
wazdlcuk: better remove bling-bling and all logos00:29
wazdlcuk: ah, I suppose you're not the author :)00:29
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timeless_mbplcuk: yeah, well, has anyone packaged it?00:30
lcuknahh wazd00:30
timeless_mbpoh wow, i haven't seen those00:30
lcukbut why remove the logos - they actually show that the entire device is a collaboration00:30
timeless_mbpi saw the first thing00:30
lcuktimeless, i think people are discussing more the creation of a CPL to manage these00:31
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lcukrather than a package for a single one00:31
timeless_mbpman, that splash is awesome00:31
timeless_mbpyeah, i could arrange for a cpl00:31
timeless_mbpif someone builds my thing00:32
lcukwhats "your thing"00:32
wazdlcuk: cause they can be trademarks :)00:32
timeless_mbpi'd need a cpl host which ran my script :)00:32
lcukwazd - yeah and those components are on the device itself00:33
lcuklook there00:34
lcuksame logos00:34
lcuki think00:34
wazdlcuk: well, the device is made by nokia, but Quim asked to remove nokia logo00:34
wazdqwerty12_N810: you can now send me link via msg btw :)00:35
lcukgood point00:35
lcukmake it in the thread00:35
lcukand ask quim00:35
qwerty12_N810wazd: I've e-mailed it, but sure :p00:36
lcuktho those components are part of maemo.org00:36
lcukwhich isnt quite the same as nokia00:36
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javispedro*sigh* just added another 1GiB of RAM N900 ad.00:37
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vasily_pupkinusb host on n900 - dead?00:38
javispedrobtw, there's kinda on "official" ugly maemo logo: look at the lower left corner.00:39
javispedrolol, they're now using a broken n900 as artwork for the warranty & servicing page.00:40
wazdjavispedro: that's not logo00:46
wazdjavispedro: that's kinda violet rectangle and a label :)00:46
wazdjavispedro: or blue :)00:47
javispedroyou have quite an artistical definition for a logo, I've seen worse ones ;)00:47
lcukthats more a logo than some companies use00:48
Milo-free bluetooth O_O00:49
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javispedrowell, at that price, they might as well give you a free firstborn offer.00:50
lcukA version used on the CBeebies channel was altered so rather than "couldn't put Humpty together again" all the King's horses "made Humpty happy again".00:50
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lcukscrambled eggs!00:51
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Corsaclcuk: over easy!00:52
javispedroonly pois? horrible00:53
qwerty12_N810javispedro: I claim fake!00:53
* javispedro clicks thanks button00:53
vasily_pupkinOh looool00:53
vasily_pupkinAGPS again00:53
javispedroyeah, I see the GPS fix performance sucks as usual...00:54
lcukevery time you use agps god saves a kitten00:54
lcukor was that shaves00:54
Milo-better stop using agps then00:54
* javispedro vomits00:54
lcukok, is it maps that expects the gps to use network00:54
lcukor the low level gps itself00:54
javispedrohopefully not. maps with network only is useless.00:55
* javispedro wonders how a guy inside his basement can create a better maps application than nokia.00:55
vasily_pupkinheh. again no maps for my poor country00:55
vasily_pupkinor may be that navigator supports locked garmin? :]00:56
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Milo-a guy who hasn't seen the world, has more optimistic idea of world than nokia, that has seen the world00:56
lcukok, maps comes from a source somwhere else doesnt it00:56
lcukie isnt it the s60 version00:56
lcukjust with restrictions00:56
javispedronokia+navtech, or did they buy the other one? i don't remember00:57
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* javispedro votes for "slow gps performance" bug version 200:58
ShadowJKit's pointless00:59
andre__vasily_pupkin, which country?00:59
vasily_pupkinukraine :)00:59
andre__javispedro, oh yeah :)00:59
vasily_pupkini just can't understand, why not normal surf? how many TI payed to nokia to use that crap?01:00
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andre__javispedro, ?01:01
andre__or the performance in general?01:01
* javispedro thanks andre__ and votes for that too.01:01
javispedrobut I mean
andre__ahem, right01:02
andre__that's what i had in mind. too late here01:02
andre__and i probably shouldn't work on sundays anyway :-P01:02
javispedrospecially sundays at noon.01:02
javispedrobut I'm doing it too, damn.01:02
andre__well, trying to get ubuntu on the third machine. but fails :-P01:03
ShadowJKthat time to lock without agps sounds similar to my Nokia E75 :-)01:03
javispedroand my N810.01:03
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ShadowJKWith AGPS, my N810 is more reliable than my E75 though. Software is kinda flaky on E7501:04
* BBNS_ back from sleep ...01:04
lcukshort sleep01:05
vasily_pupkinShadowJK: but without - n810 is a brick01:05
BBNS_yeah ... it's a nap. noon here01:05
ShadowJKvasily_pupkin, nah :-)01:05
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vasily_pupkinand another thing that make me angry01:05
* BBNS_ trying to install qt4.6 and qt-creator 1.3 on my mac ...01:06
vasily_pupkinsattelites use ordinary orbits01:06
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vasily_pupkinwhy this fscked software couldn't calculate AGPS data, when no connection aviable? :]01:07
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lcuki never installed agps01:07
lcukon 81001:07
lcukand in the car it works fine01:07
lcukas long as i reboot before using01:07
vasily_pupkinps aux | grep supl01:08
ShadowJKps aux | grep gpsdriver01:08
ShadowJKit tends to die01:08
* lcuk goes and tries to sort out packaging01:09
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lcukjavispedro, the triangle you created01:25
lcukwould it take much for me to texturize that01:26
javispedroyeah, I couldn't get the png texture loader to work01:26
javispedroprobably my own incompetence :)01:26
* qwerty12_N810 's N900 refuses to get out of Spanish :)01:26
Ceron^muchos grande01:27
lcukCeron^, did you just call qwerty a big girl?01:28
lcukif so, cool01:28
Ceron^what else could it be? :D01:28
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Ceron^my spanish aint that good..01:29
lcukwell. qwertys will be much better after today01:29
Ceron^lcuk: so got any new cool app on the n900?01:29
lcuk"inserto el transmissiono and downloado torrento!01:29
lcukCeron^, i always have cool apps01:30
lcukshame i cant get them off my n90001:30
qwerty12_N810Best part is: I don't understand the error :)01:30
Ceron^other than the liquidbase01:30
lcuki fail so hard at linux01:30
Ceron^i still dont understand the purpouse of the liquidbase01:30
javispedrowould you please stop speaking spanish. it reminds me how awful my english must sound. and no, just don't say it does not sound bad and wait until I make the first glaring error, which could even be in this sentence!01:30
qwerty12_N810Ah, there we go01:30
lcukjavispedro, it does not enter my head that you are not english01:31
lcukmy northern is much worse01:31
* qwerty12_N810 can't even speak his mother tongue01:31
Ceron^lcuk: so made so that you can stomp and laugh?01:31
Ceron^so its*01:31
lcukand reflow the contents01:32
javispedrolcuk: I smell the app counting "head banging" damages... $:01:32
javispedroerr... $)01:32
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javispedroyou're right, liqflow is really faster in n900.01:33
lcuki keep pondering how to make it much much faster still01:34
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lcukits one of the only things that uses fp01:34
javispedronot easy.01:34
lcukso it only has about 200 particles01:34
javispedrowell, fp => try nenon.01:34
javispedroer.. neon.01:34
Ceron^lcuk: that app is made for some rave party01:34
* lcuk nods01:34
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Ceron^go with the flow01:34
lcuki just use c stuffs01:34
javispedroyou can set your compiler to emit neon instructions01:34
lcukCeron^, i really wanted to get it working at the summit01:34
javispedrobut you have to use floats only.01:34
lcukbut apparantly getting dynamic location is a hard technical problem01:35
lcukdynamic physical location i mean01:35
lcukplacing a group of them together and having them collaborate on the flow01:35
lcukits solvable tho01:35
lcukat the summit i spoke with a load of people about different implementations01:36
lcukCeron^, you arent wrong:
lcukthats projected01:36
wazdlcuk: show him torch!01:36
lcukthats on the same video!01:36
wazdlcuk: torch totally kicks :D01:37
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lcukthere you go!01:37
javispedrotorch will be the KILLER app01:37
lcukjust for you01:37
lcukwazd, the best thing about this video isnt the normal apps01:37
lcukits the fact im doing a multipage presentation with swish effects and live widgets01:37
wazdfor those who like spanish:
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qwerty12_N810Oh God, that's not me01:38
qwerty12_N810I had a nightmare getting out of it01:38
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wazdqwerty12_N810: in fact it's funny to watch :D01:38
Ceron^lcuk: :)01:39
javispedroit's once, stupid.01:39
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lcukwazd - each page on the presentation can be anything and can include full page kinetics and stuff directly, because im not using the whole surface to do gestures, i can do scrolling and panning on the main widgets01:40
lcuklike if i added an rss feed widget01:40
lcukor somesuch01:40
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javispedrowell, gnite folks.01:41
lcukgnite javis01:41
* javispedro patiently waits for vista vm to shut down01:41
wazdjavispedro: nini01:41
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Andrilqwerty12_N810: a n810 user has arrived01:49
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qwerty12_N810Yes, I am on an N810 :-)01:50
wazdJust read "Nokia n900 alternative boob video"01:50
Andrilwhat os are u running?01:50
Ppupnik~lart n810 user01:51
* infobot beats n810 user senseless with a 50lb Unix manual01:51
Ppupniksame here01:51
Andrilsame here - just parying for a decent Android port to unlock it's potential01:51
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* lcuk needs to sort out packaging once again01:52
lcukbut at a different level01:52
lcukStskeeps, did you ping qole abotu a chroot01:52
qwerty12_N810I heard they use RPM on Mars...01:52
lcukif we could do our own packaging01:53
lcuki would use source only01:53
lcukand have all the code on a wiki01:53
lcukeither that or just make the html parser better01:53
lcuksince the presentation shows quite nicely about dynamic loading and display from vb source files01:54
* lcuk wonders whether anyone knows of a good html parser01:54
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* lcuk pokes Pavlov 01:55
Robot101lcuk: in python, beautiful soup01:57
lcukbut python is ummmm against practically every ideal i hold dear01:57
Robot101screen scraping HTML is OK though? :P01:57
lcuki wrote a c html parser01:58
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Robot101so did I once, but I got better... :D01:58
lcukthe problem is that it only reads my html properly lol01:58
Robot101libxml is good for C + glib,
lcukRobot101, this is a presentation in liqbase.  its not hard coded anywhere and just loads the presentation and instentiates the dynamic widgets as required01:59
lcukso theres a full complete set of live widgets on different pages02:00
guysoft42hey, does anyone here have a debian folder to package .ko files i compiled?02:00
GAN900andre__, ping?02:01
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Robot101guysoft42: debian packaging doesn't work like that - your package build system is meant to compile the stuff too02:01
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lcukthanks for libxml02:02
lcukrob-bo, ^02:02
lcukRobot101 even02:02
Robot101lcuk: no worries02:02
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* timeless_mbp finishes writing a debugging tool02:03
GAN900Holy shit02:03
GAN900You can't use the FM transmitter while charging?!02:04
* timeless_mbp ponders02:04
GAN900Awesome, it also wont let you use the fm transmitter after charging either.02:04
luke-jrhopefully just software issue02:05
timeless_mbpGAN900: what do you mean?02:05
lcukso no in car charging..02:05
timeless_mbpthere's no ui string for this02:05
Maceromg.. there is no way in hell that person in the first van he hit survivied02:05
timeless_mbpdoes it just not work?02:05
lcuksurely that sounds like a bug02:05
luke-jrMacer: so what? shush02:05
luke-jrMacer: people die in car accidents every day02:05
SpeedEvilI suspect it's a regulatory issue.02:06
Macerbut ouch02:06
Macercould you imagine that person02:06
SpeedEvilIf a lead is plugged in, that will tend to act like an antenna02:06
Macerright when they got hit?02:06
SpeedEvilincreasing the power.02:06
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GAN900Can't use fm transmitter while usb is connected. Unplug usb to continue using fm transmitter.02:07
luke-jrGAN900: is that data-USB or charge-USB?02:08
GAN900timeless_mbp, it's throwing that Hildon note at me twice whenever I tap broadcast02:08
GAN900luke-jr, iGo MicroUSB tip.02:08
GAN900So, charge.02:08
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guysoft42ok, you got to see what i am uploading to youtube now :)02:08
GAN900SpeedEvil, it also basically makes having the damn thing pointless.02:09
SpeedEvilGAN900: well - yes. Somewhat.02:09
GAN900another slow clap for the FCC02:10
SpeedEvilGAN900: I suspect it's an issue that wasn't thought about before regulatory testing, at which point they realised 'ooops - we can't step back the FM transmitter power when plugged in'.02:10
lcukmaybe its just a bug02:10
GAN900lcuk, clearly not.02:11
GAN900There's a giant string for it.02:11
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Robot101it takes hours of pain in meetings and vast amounts of paperwork and management chain per string02:11
Robot101its no accident :P02:11
GAN900Rank stupidity.02:11
SpeedEvilWires that are plugged in - that are not intentionally decoupled - the 3.5mm socket will be in order to recieve FM - will tend to act as antennas. So ... :/02:12
Robot101unfortunately none of that focuses around whether the string is a good idea :)02:12
lcuk3.5mm headphones as antenna i can see02:12
timeless_mbpwhat's the note say?02:12
lcukbut powered usb not normally?02:12
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SpeedEvilAnd if they hit regulatory limits with stuff plugged in - they have to turn it off02:12
GAN900Can't use fm transmitter while usb is connected. Unplug usb to continue using fm transmitter.02:12
guysoft42Nokia N810 controlling a LED matrix with a Bumble-b:
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SpeedEvillcuk: no - 3.5mm is _not_ an antenna for the transmitter probably - due to the design that's used to recieve FM02:13
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guysoft42qwerty12_N810, hey, see why i needed to compile the kernel!: Nokia N810 controlling a LED matrix with a Bumble-b02:13
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, ops here it is
lcukSpeedEvil, its used as an antenna02:13
lcukyou dont usually find it using power is what i meant02:13
SpeedEvil(or if it is, it's an antenna that's only in compliance when nothing else is plugged in)02:13
qwerty12_N810guysoft42: lemme just load it up...02:14
* GAN900 sighs.02:15
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SpeedEvilIt'll be fixed in the n942 :)02:15
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GAN900timeless_mnp, should I file that text rendering bug in
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, what do you think? :)02:16
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GAN900It's to the point where I can't even read zoomed text.02:16
timeless_mbpGAN900: we should have a public bug for it02:16
GAN900Which makes the whole zoom feature only useful for fitting images. . . .02:16
qwerty12_N810guysoft42: Still loading it up on the N900; N810 and YT don't go :)02:16
timeless_mbpbut i really don't know what's causing it, and i doubt we'll manage to do something about it02:16
lcukGAN900, can i ask - what do you like about the device :$02:16
lcukyou have been a bit of a grump recently02:16
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, you have a N900?02:17
GAN900lcuk, because I'm on a bug finding excursion.02:17
lcuktimeless, i noticed the same thing on with the font there02:17
qwerty12_N810guysoft42: loaned02:17
GAN900lcuk, those make me grumpy.02:17
timeless_mbplcuk: it happens everywhere02:17
lcukon my pc02:17
timeless_mbpwe know, but we haven't really tried to figure it out02:17
lcuki know the n900 is good, but it hasnt got a reality distortion field02:18
GAN900Plus, there's not much cause to praise things since the vast majority of people responsible are still holed up.02:18
lcukdoes it occur with all fonts02:18
* GAN900 will thank timeless and Robot101, though.02:18
timeless_mbplcuk: i don't think i've installed any non standard fonts02:18
timeless_mbpmy guess is it's some kerning algorithm02:18
GAN900Thanks timeless and Robot101! :)02:18
timeless_mbpit'd be very good for someone to try some non nokia fonts02:18
qwerty12_N810guysoft42: Nice!02:19
Ppupnikyes thanks to all involved with n900 - way to promote linux02:19
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GAN900Plus any other Nokians/Maemo contractors floating in the room who weren't responsible for screwing more stuff up than they made awesome. ;)02:20
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, do you have a debian config for packaging a kernel module? i want to package the cdc_acm.ko i compiled02:20
lcukGAN900, what about those who made awesome stuff but still screwed up some bits02:21
Robot101lcuk: humans? most of the code was written by them actually :D02:21
qwerty12_N810guysoft42: Sorry, I've never attempted to compile a kernel from debian/rules02:21
lcukgood job you arent one02:21
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, no, just the .ko file02:21
guysoft42i just need a tiny packages. we could upload it to the maemo devel-extras02:22
guysoft42its useful, it sould work with any other cdc modems02:22
qwerty12_N810extras-devel requires source02:22
lcukwhy not upload the source02:22
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lcukcos it would need compiling for different archs02:22
lcukand your .ko would be built for one02:23
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guysoft42lcuk, the source is the maemo kernel02:23
guysoft42lcuk, isn't there a way to share kernel modules on the repos?02:24
guysoft42someone must have done this02:24
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lcukthe community kernel quilt!02:24
lcukdidnt that get started a while back02:24
lcukwasnt it meant to pull all the kernel mods together02:24
lcukfor highspeed mmc and stuff02:25
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GAN900lcuk, more than. ;)02:26
lcukqwerty12_N810, you are a member of that group02:26
GAN900lcuk, and they can go eat dirt. :P02:26
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guysoft42lcuk, well, i was hoping for something more user friendly02:26
CVirusIs it planned that Qt replaces Hildon ?02:26
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guysoft42i want to compile now rt73usb02:26
lcukand rt73usb is user friendly?02:26
qwerty12_N810lcuk: I have a big-ass diff, actually02:26
lcuki havent got the foggiest what it would mean02:26
lcukso it doesnt sound friendly to me02:26
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lcukrly qwerty12_N810 o_O02:27
lcukis that as far as it got02:27
GAN900qwerty12, go see Zombieland.02:27
qwerty12_N810Any good? It's been out since the 9th here02:27
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lcukwhat does it do02:28
GAN900I laughed harder than I did at Hot Fuzz02:28
GAN900I _loved_ it.02:28
lcukand why would u ser need it02:28
guysoft42lcuk, its a wireless stick02:28
qwerty12_N810OK, you've got me convinced. Hot Fuzz was hilarious02:29
lbtnight all02:29
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GAN900qwerty12, in some ways I liked it more than Shaun of the Dead.02:29
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qwerty12_N810Ah, can't compare to that: I've never seen Shaun of the Dead02:30
GAN900Though I think that's partially a cultural issue.02:30
GAN900Ooooh, see that, too.02:30
lcukshaun was rly rly funny :D02:30
GAN900There's a cameo in Zombieland that hard me laughing harder at a movie than I have in years.02:31
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, do you know how to compile a kernel module in sb2, i seem to get make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.30-2-686/build: No such file or directory.02:31
* GAN900 is rebooting to try to fix FM. Back in a sec.02:32
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guysoft42lcuk, maybe you do?02:32
lcukunfortunately ive never needed to compile anything to do with the kernel ever02:32
qwerty12_N810GuySoft: I think I mentioned something about chopping my balls off before I ever touch sb2; so, no, sorry, I wouldn't know :)02:32
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, so how the heck do you compile for maemo?02:33
lcukguysoft42, did you already compile it in sb102:33
qwerty12_N810guysoft42: sb102:33
guysoft42lcuk, um, i did in sb2..02:33
guysoft42whats so bad about sb2?02:34
lcukyeah qwerty12_N810 quick comparison for sb1 and sb202:34
lcukand why its crap02:34
lcuk/not right for you02:34
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, also, how would you do a kernel module in sb1?02:34
lcukget source (including kernel headers) enter folder02:35
lcuktype make02:35
lcuksame as building anything else02:35
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CVirusIs Qt going to replace Hildon sometime ?02:35
guysoft42lcuk, and how do you point it to the kernel headers?02:35
GAN900Hildon Desktop is playing nice again.02:35
qwerty12_N810lcuk: Dunno, I didn't "get" it, sb2 -e vs fakeroot etc. Just wasn't for me.02:35
RobertH[AU]hey everyone, is it normal that when using apt in the sdk no packages can be verified?02:35
lcukCVirus, qt has been penciled in for mainstream nokia use in harmattan02:36
lcukflipping the switch between current status of gtk and qt02:36
CViruslcuk: isn't there a release date for harmattan02:36
lcuki heard it would be out sometime after lunch02:36
lcuknot sure what date specifically tho02:37
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* GAN900 shivers02:37
GAN900Getting cold in Florida.02:37
CViruslcuk: so basically harmattan is the end of GTK/Hildon on maemo ?02:37
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, can you at least try and help me to compile it?02:37
GAN900It's the end of official support.02:38
qwerty12_N810guysoft42: Not while I'm not on a computer, no :)02:38
CVirusah sure02:38
lcukCVirus, it best not be.  theres an lot of VERY good gtk code in all of maemo02:38
GAN900It'll be community supported after that.02:38
luke-jrlcuk: there is?02:38
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, ah , nevermind then02:38
CVirusQt is the way to go02:38
GAN900Much like Python and Qt (until very recently).02:38
luke-jrif code uses gtk, it is bad code almost per definition ;)02:38
luke-jrmy N810 has gtk masked02:39
lcukluke-jr, of fuck off and make a better toolkit then.  app developers use whatever they can at the time to build their apps02:39
GAN900luke-jr, keep the toolkit wars elsewhere, thanks.02:39
lcukand those apps are on the whole good strong things02:39
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, got it!02:39
guysoft42sb2  make -C ../../kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source/02:39
lcukno developer likes to see their code enter the bitbucket02:39
guysoft42thanks to:
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luke-jrlcuk: Qt02:40
lcukso the devs making maemo apps should just sit on their ass and not develop until its ready?02:40
luke-jrit is ready02:40
luke-jrhas been for years.02:40
lcukso why are people still choosing gtk02:41
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GAN900lcuk, don't feed the trolls.02:41
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luke-jrlcuk: GTK/GNOME fanboys like to spread FUD that Qt is somehow non-free02:42
lcukluke-jr, stop twisting this argument02:42
luke-jrthat's basically the entire reason GTK exists02:42
lcukwhere are the qt apps if its ready for us02:42
luke-jrlcuk: plenty of Qt apps02:42
BBNS_CVirus, if you are intested what has been going on in Qt, following and search maemo.02:42
luke-jrArora, KDE, etc02:42
lcukon maemo.02:42
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CVirusBBNS_: thanks02:43
qwerty12_N810luke-jr: This is #maemo. Where are those apps on Maemo?02:43
lcuki know its nearly ready02:43
luke-jrlcuk: GTK is part of why Maemo fails it02:43
lcukits really nearly ready02:43
* lcuk gets excited thinking about it02:43
luke-jrbut apps aren't (or shouldn't be) "Maemo apps"02:43
luke-jrthey should be apps02:43
luke-jrthat don't care about platform02:43
CViruscouldn't agree less02:43
lcukhave you got a maemo device there02:43
CViruserrr .. more*02:43
luke-jrlcuk: nope, it runs Gentoo now02:44
lcukhave you got kde on it?02:44
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lcukthen you win.02:44
CViruswhat runs gentoo ?02:45
* lcuk stretches a hand across the internet02:45
luke-jrCVirus: my N81002:45
CVirusoh .. cool02:45
lcukhow well does it run?02:45
luke-jrlcuk: at first, I thought it was too slow cuz of the RAM shortage02:45
luke-jrbut upon revisiting Maemo's browser02:45
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luke-jrit's actually better02:45
lcukmaybe its just settling in02:45
Ppupnikrunning gentoo on a tablet is a nice accomplishment02:45
lcukwhen i ran portal on my old pc02:45
lcukthe graphics card wasnt upto snuff02:45
lcukbut after a few weeks i didnt care02:46
luke-jrI compared Arora, Konqueror, and Maemo for browsing02:46
Ppupnikwhich is exactly why not to do it02:46
luke-jrsurprisingly, Arora won out02:46
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lcukmost regular folks wont tho02:46
lcukand hence, not quite ready02:46
lcukits like me and liqbase - little hurdles to get over02:46
lcukrather than big humps02:46
guysoft42ah wait, that compiles the kernel :-/02:47
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GAN900luke-jr, not a valid comparison.02:48
GAN900As MicroB in Diablo is years out of date.02:48
lcukluke-jr, sometimes you piss me off, tonight you really surprised me.  thank you.  do you blog about getting gentoo on n810?02:49
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luke-jrlcuk: no02:50
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luke-jrlcuk: slonopotamus and I maintain a website and repository02:50
GAN900So what you've figured out with your little experiment there is that a new WebKit is faster than Gecko from the first Firefox 3.0 alpha02:50
lcukwell thats something02:50
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lcukwhere is it?02:50
luke-jrGAN900: valid comparison, since there is no newer MicroB for N81002:50
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GAN900luke-jr, not for the conclusions you're attemption to draw.02:51
GAN900and Fremantle MicroB should run on Diablo.02:51
ali1234i bet arora is still miles faster though02:52
lcukthanks luke-jr :)02:53
pupnik_i nove browser "suspend javascript"02:53
lcukbtw, luke-jr  is coming up with a bad gateway02:53
lcukreleased sources are there02:53
luke-jrlcuk: hmm, I wouldn't know. slonopotamus maintains the git repo and text2screen02:53
ShadowJKI don't think tear knows how to kill cpu use when device is idle :/02:54
ShadowJKi love that about microb02:54
luke-jrlcuk: I use a semi-normal initrd for now02:54
lcuki notice theres a section on chroot02:54
qwerty12_N810GAN900: Hmm, is the FM transmitter disabled when charging from a computer, from the wall or both?02:54
luke-jrlcuk: Gentoo is always installed via chroot02:55
luke-jrqwerty12_N810: he said from the wall02:55
qwerty12_N810Ah, thanks02:55
lcukso itsn ot a killer?02:55
lcukos killer rather02:56
lcukit sits alongside02:56
luke-jrlcuk: ?02:56
luke-jrlcuk: Gentoo is installed via chroot. It can run from a boot.02:57
timeless_mbpGAN900: ping02:57
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timeless_mbpcan someone try for me?02:58
timeless_mbp(requires zenity)02:58
timeless_mbp(and gettext)02:58
ali1234lcuk: any linux distro can be run from chroot, or not, as you prefer02:59
ali1234there's nothing special about it02:59
luke-jrali1234: to a degree02:59
ali1234to a degree nothing02:59
lcukas a windows user, i am scared by most things linuxy02:59
ali1234all you need is a kernel that's compatible to all of them03:00
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ali1234which isn't particularly hard unless you want to run something exotic like android03:00
pupnik_ok timeless03:00
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lcuktimeless_mbp, internal server error with that file03:01
pupnik_error 50003:02
timeless_mbpok, hold03:02
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lcukluke-jr, ali1234 operating system recursion makes my head hurt. im used to having solid functions to run at the end of a chain03:03
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ali1234lcuk: wat?03:03
pupnik_404 now03:03
pupnik_wrong link03:03
lcukdont worry ali1234 lol, just my head03:04
ali1234lcuk: all chroot does is change the location of "/" - literally change root. as such, you end up with a different set of libs in /libs and a different set of binaries in /bin. that's all03:04
ali1234there's really no recursion involved03:04
pupnik_program gives menu with 3 choices03:05
timeless_mbptry the last one as a starting point03:05
pupnik_i like zenity03:05
timeless_mbpit'll let you wander around things hopefully03:05
timeless_mbponce you've gotten comfortable using the last item, try the other two03:05
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timeless_mbpi'll probably write a startup video switcher using zenity in a bit03:06
pupnik_select domain loop timeless03:06
timeless_mbppupnik_: hrm, which path?03:07
pupnik_domain, locale, domain, locale03:07
timeless_mbpyou should be able to cancel out of things03:07
pupnik_i will use this yenity03:08
timeless_mbpi'm not seeing a loop03:08
timeless_mbpare you sure you didn't click cancel?03:08
pupnik_soelect locale - de03:08
pupnik_select domain comes up03:09
pupnik_in domain list is "adduser"03:09
pupnik_clickung "adduser" and ok03:09
timeless_mbpthe title is probably bad03:09
pupnik_gives window with title "domain: adduser"03:09
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pupnik_and Kocale: de03:10
timeless_mbpthat last view is the list of strings for adduser/de03:10
pupnik_and a two-column empty list with fields ID and Value03:10
timeless_mbpif you can suggest a better way to explain this...03:10
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pupnik_maybe text explaining  what this is about03:11
timeless_mbpsuggestions welcome ...03:13
timeless_mbpthe idea is to enable people to review/compare strings03:13
pupnik_what is this about?03:13
pupnik_now i get "select domain" and "camera" is only item in list03:14
timeless_mbpanyway... i think if you're able to walk around w/o hitting errors, that's a good start03:18
timeless_mbpit looks like ru_RU / ham doesn't work right03:18
timeless_mbpnot sure why03:18
timeless_mbphe is breaking something :(~03:19
pupnik_nikce ikdeda03:20
timeless_mbpham in mer 0.16 doesn't seem to handle .installs very well :(03:22
t_s_ough, now thats bothersome, it seems maemo4 enables power saving on the wifi when the display times out for lack of use, even if its been disabled (using wifiinfo for instance)03:23
greenflyok i've spent 15 mins om google with no answers... how do I hit alt on the n900?03:23
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timeless_mbpgreenfly: you don't?03:24
lcuki always thought alt was the blue arrow03:24
greenflyreally? you'd think there were some way03:25
lcukwhat is it then timeless03:25
greenflybecause it is a common key03:25
timeless_mbpgreenfly: how many typewriters have you met w/ an alt key?03:25
timeless_mbphow many phones have you met w/ alt keys?03:26
greenflyis that really your argument?03:26
timeless_mbpthe real argument is that the idiotic hardware designers decided to limit the number of keys03:26
timeless_mbpand you're complaining about the lack of an alt key03:26
timeless_mbpwhen most of the regions complain about the lack of up and down arrows03:26
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greenflyno I'm not complaining at all, just asking if there were some combo to trigger it03:27
greenflyif the answer is "no" then fine. I will work around it03:28
Ppupnikwe have a pipe key yet03:28
Ppupnikgreenfly, maybe get xev03:28
greenflyPpupnik: it's available in the symbols03:28
Ppupnikdo you know pipe shortcut for terminal?03:29
Ppupnikctrl+i is tab03:29
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lcukwe should make sure keesj's nbutton has pipe and tab03:30
greenflyunfortunately no. was lookimg for tab to make irssi easier to use03:30
greenflyer for alt03:30
Ppupnikctrl n / p should work03:31
lcukthe way the proximity sensor was used for trigger on q303:31
lcukcan that be generically done03:31
Ppupnikwhat triggers proximity03:32
lcuksomeone said it has ir led03:32
lcukand detectts shine back03:33
Ppupniki wwant 2p coop robotron on n90003:33
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* lcuk doesnt know how to handle liqbase packaging03:35
Ppupnikheh i know the confuzzlement03:36
lcukwell if i make specific packages for each of the modules i use03:37
lcuki fill up my main menu on n90003:37
Ppupnikcan we still manually build packages?03:37
lcukwith items i never use03:37
lcukcos i run in the playground03:37
lcukits a granuality issue03:37
lcuki dont just want a single package to install liqbase and dump everything in there03:37
lcukthats no better than last year03:38
lcukbut i still have lots of apps03:38
timeless_mbplcuk: can you offer a way to generate .desktop files for people?03:41
timeless_mbpso that they can choose which items appear in the menu?03:41
lcuknot practical really - its a user app03:41
lcuk.desktops are stored in root end arent they03:42
lcuki could obviously03:42
timeless_mbphave you installed my translation package/03:42
lcukbut its the first time03:42
lcuknot sure03:42
lcuki installed a load of stuff, but reflashed device recently03:43
timeless_mbpyou'd remember03:43
timeless_mbpbut you can look at how i manage that problem03:43
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qwerty12_N810lcuk: Y'know, desktop files do look an awful lot like GLib's GKeyFiles... That could probably be hacked up to dump a desktop file, but, say, liqbase was uninstalled? How would you ensure that the generated desktop files were gone?03:44
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lcukyeah qwerty12_N81003:44
lcukthe problem actually extends beyond that tho03:44
lcukfor another reason :P03:44
lcukwe need control panel panels applet03:44
lcukto manage icons03:45
lcuki might just treat everything as widgets03:45
lcukand not even add em to the menu03:45
timeless_mbpcan clean up your generated goop03:46
lcuktimeless too late03:46
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lcukinstall liqbase03:46
lcukinstall liqtorch03:46
lcukadd icon for liqtorch - using liqbase03:46
lcukremove liqtorch03:46
lcukicon would stay03:47
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timeless_mbpany provider would need to have a postrm to kill its file03:48
lioriif a symlink doesn't work, treat it as not existing; make all desktop files in one place, and let the user symlink the necessary ones to his directory if he want to?03:49
lcukplan b03:49
timeless_mbpliori: you're assuming a sane design for the menu chooser03:49
timeless_mbpthat seems unlikely03:49
lcukinstall everything with the playground itself as normal03:50
lcukjust throw the kitchen sink of liq_lcuk modules03:50
lcukfrom one package03:50
lcukif user explicitely wants torch from the menu03:50
lcukthey can install a specific package which just links to the already existing liq* stuff03:50
lcuk.desktop rather03:50
lcukso the package itself is just the desktop03:51
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timeless_mbpthat'd work03:51
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lcukmakes my standard life easier03:52
lcukcos i would only create a specific package when required03:52
lcukbecomes a bit heavier tho03:52
lcukbut liqbase is kinda light03:52
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wazdnini maemo :)03:56
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lcukpupnik, whats up03:57
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Ppupniklistening to greenwald on cair and the nnuclear first strike madmen04:01
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Solarionstupid U205:14
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lcukSolarion, do you need glasses05:20
Solarionlcuk: for what?05:21
Solarionreading which?05:21
lcukare you the owner of your "Higher-res screen?" thread05:21
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Solarionwhich one are you?05:21
lcuki am lcuk05:22
Solariondid you post there?05:22
lcuki just read it05:22
lcuki think you are just getting to the limit of your focal length05:22
Solarionso what am I allegedly failing to read?05:22
* GeneralAntilles will always pick higher DPI.05:22
lcukand on some font sizes i get same05:22
Solarionthis is not an insult; this is an honest quesiton05:22
SolarionNo, I don't need glasses05:23
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SolarionI don't think so; my fonts on my lappy are very small too05:23
Solarionmaybe evince's font rendering sucks; is also possible05:23
lcukis there any focal length where the perceived smudgyeness vanishes ?05:23
lcukyeah theres always problems with font rendering in many places05:24
* lcuk has issues with utf05:24
Solarionno; the glyphs are rendered to small for the pixels05:24
SolarionIt's like I can almost make it out, but the pixels just dont' sufice; the text is too small to fit in the grid05:24
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SolarionWe can chat more about this tomorrow when I don't have to be asleep and I don't have spotty internet link (I hope)05:25
lcukheh as a glasses user im used to that05:25
SolarionCox is coming out tomorrow to fix it05:25
lcukthe whole world is kinda smudged05:25
SolarionI am far-sighted in one eye and short-sighted in the other, and they seme to compensate for each other05:25
derfEvince's font rendering sucks.05:25
GeneralAntillesMicroB's font rendering sucks.05:26
lcukwhy cant we just have infinite resolution displays and true vector based rendering05:26
derflcuk: Because they would still fuck it up.05:26
lcukliqbases font rendering sucks05:26
lcukheh but it would be cool05:26
lcukand solarion would be happy05:26
derfMost of evince's problems are related to hinting and inappropriate substitutions.05:26
derfVector displays wouldn't help it any.05:27
Solarion(and it's a very small amount; no glasses neded)05:27
Solarionbut I gotta go t o bed; we can chat tomorrow05:27
Solarionand the net link is starting to act up again frickin' squirrels05:27
SolarionTree rats, the logt of 'em05:27
lcukusing a loupe to read text engraved on the back surface of a gnats wing05:27
SolarionINah; even if you were to think I'd happy; I'd still find a way to be upset and self-righteously indignant05:27
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Solarionyeah, yay squirrels05:27
* Solarion &05:27
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timeless_mbpanyone here familiar w/ sudoers?05:33
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zgoldhas anybody had an issue with mydocs mysteriously being mounted readonly sometimes on boot?05:49
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Ppupniknot i05:52
Ppupniki have had device claim still connected to usb on shutdown05:52
Ppupnikisnt monday october 19th release day?05:52
Ppupnikcan i get firmware then?05:53
GeneralAntillesNo firmware for you.05:53
zgoldi dont think anybody knows the day for sure yet05:53
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GeneralAntillesI'm sure somebody does. ;)05:53
zgoldthey may be waiting for code to be ready, who knows05:54
Ppupnikmost of the actual bugsa need testing for repeatability nand causes05:54
Ppupnikdu -s /usr/share/* I sort -n05:55
Ppupnikcan these bloths be optified plx05:55
Ppupnikit feels like driving a vw bug stuffed to the gills with a 500 lb woman05:56
Ppupnikgood morning :)05:56
Ppupnik.... with the heat turned to full05:57
GeneralAntillesThat actually sounds nice in this weather. :D05:58
Ppupniki want a japanese rock hot spring type setjup05:59
Ppupniksit in there all winter like a snow monkey05:59
Ppupnikneed to order 5000 liters of fuel oil gen06:00
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Ppupnikrepair parts for lappy underwsy so i can work in front of wood stove06:01
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timeless_mbpjeremiah: ping06:15
timeless_mbpor GeneralAntilles  or someone06:15
timeless_mbpi need help w/ dpkg-buildpackage06:15
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lcuktimeless, whats prob - the postinst?06:17
lcukis it in debian/ folder06:17
timeless_mbppostinst isn't being packaged afaict06:17
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I've never built a Debian package in my life. :P06:19
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timeless_mbporiginally i built my debs by hand06:19
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timeless_mbpthose were much safer06:19
lcukarghh what evilness are you using now06:19
timeless_mbpand believe me, i regret it06:20
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lcukok, to put a postinst into the package06:20
lcukit should just be in the debian/ folder afaik06:20
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lcuktimeless, also, you build packages by hand..06:22
lcuki cant build packages on the tablet06:23
lcuki have to defer to scratchbox for that one evilness06:23
* GeneralAntilles still needs somebody to 'splain key rebinding.06:24
GeneralAntillesThere's nothing in the hal stuff that gives me any clues.06:24
lcukthis was the page about it for n810
lcukmaybe you will learn something from it ?06:26
lcuki need to sleep tho06:28
lcukgnite timeless GeneralAntilles chritto06:28
timeless_mbpgood night06:28
GeneralAntilleslcuk, tried, didn't work.06:28
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timeless_mbpok, got it06:38
timeless_mbpstupid me06:38
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: so...06:40
timeless_mbpi finally have a version that i think mostly works06:41
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timeless_mbpblassey: !06:41
blasseyhi timeless06:41
timeless_mbpi'm looking for someone to test a package for me :)06:41
timeless_mbpnative speakers most welcome06:41
* timeless_mbp eyes ai_ni_multiple_install06:42
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* timeless_mbp triggers a watchdog because bounce+not responding dialog = deadlock06:47
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GeneralAntillesHAL is making my brain hurt.06:51
* GeneralAntilles just wants to find the right file to edit. :(06:51
JackBeSlowI have been trying to find a list of apps available for mer, google it seems is not my friend today06:51
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* GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk.07:13
* Proteous attaches a dynamo and gets power off of GeneralAntilles headbanging07:14
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slonopotamuslcuk, luke-jr, fixed07:43
infobotslonopotamus meant: lcuk, luke-jr, fixed07:43
luke-jrslonopotamus: cool07:44
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slonopotamusluke-jr, was updating lighttpd recently, they moved spawn-fcgi to separate package, so i installed in instead of lighttpd but forgot that gitweb was handled by it :/07:45
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luke-jrslonopotamus: not apache? O.o07:46
slonopotamusluke-jr, no, why?07:46
luke-jrI just assume everything is apache07:47
slonopotamusapache is more memory-hungry07:47
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samadi can't install curl_7.15.5-1etch3_i386.deb.  How can i do this ?08:07
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samadi want to install libcurl what should i do ?08:32
thuxis there any good way to tell is sdcard partly broken?08:33
slonopotamus_lcuk, why you were looking there at all, btw? :)08:34
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thuxfsck can be run orginal fat fs too?08:34
RST38hwell there is a special version08:34
thuxok thanks i try that08:35
RST38hfsck.msdos I think08:35
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dmj7261Hey, anybody heard of a game called World of Goo?08:37
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dmj7261It's a game for Linux/mac/windows08:37
dmj7261They're making an iphone 3GS (maybe 3G too) port08:38
dmj7261Top post is about that and the pay what you want sale today08:38
dmj7261I think we should try to get an n900 port08:39
dmj7261I suspect that a maemo port would be trivial (minor UI tweaks to linux port and recompile for arm)08:40
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Stskeepsdmj7261: suggest on talk.*08:42
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dmj7261yeah, registering now08:42
RST38hor better do a port yourself, you say it will be trivial08:43
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dmj7261I don't have the source code08:46
dmj7261It's a proprietary game that's usually $2008:46
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RST38hok. how do you port it then?08:46
dmj7261But it's cross platform already and has no drm08:46
dmj7261bug the company to port it08:46
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RST38hok, you know what to do08:48
dmj7261I already suggested porting it, but a lot of n900 users requesting it would likely make this indie jump on maemo08:48
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RST38hthere is a total of about 300+ N900 users right now08:51
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dmj7261How many people will have one soon?08:52
RST38hwho knows?08:52
dmj7261(soon being after actual release)08:52
dmj7261I don't have one but will hopefully soon.08:52
dmj7261Just posted about it on talk08:58
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vesaworld of goo is great fun, got it for wii. would buy for this n90009:06
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Corsacyeah, wog is definitely quite fun09:12
thuxis it 3d game?09:12
dmj72612D, but very fun09:13
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thuxthen old maemo devices can run it too?09:14
Corsac2d but I think it requires some 3d graphics09:14
Corsacso not until they get a driver09:14
CorsacI think it's opengl09:14
dmj7261probably needs some form of opengl09:14
dmj7261They mentioned an iphone 3GS port09:14
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dmj7261(and weren't sure if the 3G could handle it)09:15
suihkulokkiwold of goo uses GL, so a n900 port would need a GL -> GLES 2.0 port09:15
vesadone ?)09:15
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Corsaciphone 3g is gles too isn't it?09:15
dmj7261iphone 3GS port -> opengl es 2.0 should be done09:15
Corsacor 3gs09:15
dmj7261 read the top post09:16
dmj7261combine an iphone port + a linux port should be something like a maemo port09:16
dmj7261thanks vesa09:18
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dmj7261WoG would make an excellent Maemo Select app!09:22
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samadi want to install libcurl what should i do ?10:08
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timeless_mbpuse apt-get like everyone else10:08
timeless_mbp1. learn to use apt-get10:08
timeless_mbp3. use it10:08
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timeless_mbptigert: yes10:27
* timeless_mbp is looking for testers10:28
rmttimeless, for what?10:28
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rmtOh.. I'm strictly british English.. so if you need someone to notice where you've screwed up translations, I'll be pointing out the opposite. :-P10:30
rmtBut I should have some time this afternoon to look at it, if you just want to see if it breaks things.10:32
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timeless_mbpthere's a british variant for this floating around10:33
timeless_mbpit's in my tree10:33
timeless_mbprmt: actually10:33
timeless_mbpyou can take advantage of the most recent feature10:33
timeless_mbpyou can look up strings and compare them :)10:33
timeless_mbpwell, comparing isn't very easy, since you'll get a lot of stuff you don't care about10:33
timeless_mbpbut you can try :)10:33
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tigertrmt: nah, brits have the correct english anyway10:38
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timeless_mbptigert: james disagrees :)10:39
tigerttransmission should really renice it self or something10:39
rmtI think the Americans stopped far too soon with their language changes .. and now it's still impractical, but just looks silly.10:39
RST38htigert: it seems to be issuing shitloads of system calls10:40
RST38htigert: doubt that rnicing will fix that10:40
tigertI think it helped a bit10:40
tigertbut I guess the problem is that it opens a ton of network connections too10:41
RST38hthat too, but I still suspect polling and non-blocking reads in a tight loop10:41
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RST38hstrace results seem to support that10:42
tigertits a shame, I wonder if it could be better10:42
tigertsince its a nice app but the performance hogging is just insane10:42
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* timeless_mbp frowns10:42
zerojaydid the maemo 4 version have the same issues?10:43
timeless_mbpis it possible to have a debian/foo.changelog ?10:43
tigertI didnt use maemo4 version10:43
RST38htigert: I looked at it but could not figure out what is going on so far10:43
tigertthis is now nicer because it has more finger-friendly ui10:43
RST38htigert: Really need some torrent export to take a look10:43
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RST38hAnyone knows the Pipeline guy who did the original Transmission port?10:46
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RST38hIs he on IRC? =)10:46
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tigertrenicing seems to definitely help10:52
tigertbut it could be just the fact that transmission opens all the shit in the beginning10:52
tigertand things just calm down after that10:52
RST38hnot really10:54
RST38hstart a few transfers and see it slow down to a crawl10:54
RST38hcompare that to a program that just does while(1) {} - this program will not slow your system to a crawl10:54
tigertyea, because a busylooping app is easy to multitask10:55
tigertjust eats cpu10:55
RST38hso we definitely are dealing with a lot of I/O and/or kernel calls10:55
tigertiowait is much harder issue10:55
tigertI think you are right10:55
RST38hRemember that goddamn Flash in Diablo? It did gettimeofday() like that10:55
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tigertthen again torrenting on 3G... not going to start multiple torrents at once ;)10:55
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RST38htigert: actually if it just waited for io, it would be even easier than busy loop10:55
RST38htigert: the problem is that it does polling for io10:56
RST38hAnd if I were a little bit brighter and my oracular balls a little bit shinier, I would be able to track down where it polls...10:56
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timeless_mbpRST38h: surely you can install -dbg packages and use oprofile?11:03
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samadi want to install libcurl what should i do ?11:05
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* timeless_mbp kicks samad 11:05
timeless_mbpgo read an intro to debian guide11:05
timeless_mbpfocus on the apt-get bit11:05
timeless_mbpor go play with HAM and read about Red Pill11:05
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Jaffalbt: pong11:13
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lbtmorning Jaffa11:13
lbtdid you catch my msg last night?11:13
JaffaI did.11:14
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lbtI'm trying to provide some sane APIs in Qt11:14
lbtlike signal inBackGround()11:14
lbtso the QHildonMainWindow emits that and the app can do the right thing11:15
* Jaffa nods. Sounds sensible.11:15
lbtalso "signal saveState()" and some rotation ones...11:15
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lbtessentially abstractions of the Hildon desktop environment11:15
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lbtso looking to determine the implementation algos for M511:16
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JaffaFirst question is if they should be trigger-oriented ('inBackground') or functionality oriented: 'onRequestStopProcessing(BackgroundType {BACKGROUND, DISPLAY_OFF}11:16
tigertsmile to the camera ;)11:17
tigertyou can breathe again11:18
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JaffaHmm, I can't log in to maemo.org11:21
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* timeless_mbp looks for a dpkg expert11:26
woglindetimeless_mbp hm11:26
woglindeprogramming or using?11:26
timeless_mbpi want to generate two packages foo and bar11:27
woglindeso whats the problem?11:27
timeless_mbpcan i have debian/foo.changelog and debian/bar.changelog ?11:27
woglindefrom one source package?11:27
woglindedidnt saw this yet11:27
timeless_mbpwell, from one source directory11:27
timeless_mbpi haven't actually *packaged* my sources yet :)11:27
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woglindetimeless_mbp sorry always I saw only one changelog11:29
woglindewhy you cant write it into one?11:29
timeless_mbpwell, i'm maintaining two competing products :)11:29
timeless_mbpenus1 and engb111:29
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timeless_mbpthey're very related, so i'd rather avoid having distinct source directories11:30
timeless_mbp(i'm using symlinks to make dpkg-buildpackage happy)11:30
lbtJaffa: yep ... so a set of meaningful states and a stateChangeNotification() event sounds good11:30
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lbttimeless_mbp: changelog is a src changelog11:32
lbtnothing to stop you managing stuff in docs/11:32
timeless_mbpdoes the changelog not get packaged into the packages itself?11:32
lbtfor user consumption and packaging11:33
lbtyes it does11:33
woglindehm which changelog you mean?11:33
lbtshould have said "per src changelog"11:33
timeless_mbpin dpkg-buildpackage, the changelog affects the package versioning11:33
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lbtit does11:33
woglindeor normal foo.changelog11:33
timeless_mbpi thought i was relatively clear11:33
woglindemake two debian dirs11:34
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timeless_mbpthat's incredibly annoying :)11:35
timeless_mbpit's definitely annoying11:36
timeless_mbpi currently have 2 symlinks and 1 directory tree11:36
woglindeeven rpm dont make such errors11:36
woglinde2 products 2 changelos11:36
timeless_mbpto do what you suggest would require ~10 symlinks and 3 directory trees11:36
woglindeuse svn or git buildpackage11:37
timeless_mbpyuck, and ick11:37
timeless_mbpneither of those will help me much11:37
Jaffacrashanddie: ping11:38
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suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: do you want x binary packages with different versions or really to ship different changelog files in different binary packages ?11:38
timeless_mbpmostly the latter11:39
timeless_mbphowever they're vaguely related11:39
timeless_mbpif the engb version needs to have one extra version release because there's an extra british only string fix, i want to be able to do that11:39
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woglinde2 debian dirs11:40
timeless_mbpbut i don't want the 90% of the code to get out of sync11:40
Corsacupstream changelog and debian changelogs are no way related11:40
woglindeor one11:40
Corsacyou can ship two upstream changelogs per src package, no problem11:40
Corsacbut the debian/changelog is unique per source package11:41
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woglindeCorsac I think his problem is version bumping11:41
suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: if you just want to affect the version number, you can do it with parameters to dpkg-gencontrol (usually via dh_gencontrol -- )11:41
timeless_mbpwoglinde is correct11:41
Corsacwoglinde: I don't see the problem, tbh11:41
Corsacif there are two sources, make two debian src packages11:42
Corsaceven if upstream the sources are shared11:42
woglindecorsac *sigh* thats what I told him11:42
timeless_mbpin this case is a single directory tree being managed by this stupid debian junk11:42
Corsacyes, it doesn't matter if upstream and packager are the same people11:42
Corsacdevelopment and packaging are _not_ the same task11:42
woglindetimeless_mbp rpm can handle this?11:42
* timeless_mbp shrugs11:43
timeless_mbpi could roll my own tool to handle this for .deb11:43
timeless_mbp.deb itself could fairly easily handle this11:43
suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: for installing different changelogs, just replace dh_installchangelogs in debian/rules with your own install/cp/whatever calls11:44
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timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: ok, that sounds like the path i want11:44
suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: actually, reading dh_installchangelogs manpage, there is a even easier solution ;)11:45
woglindesuihkulokki and how is the versioning stuff than handled?11:45
Corsactimeless_mbp: basically you want one debian source package which builds two binary packages versioned differently?11:46
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timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: gah11:46
timeless_mbpi specifically asked if that was supported11:46
timeless_mbpeveryone said no11:46
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* timeless_mbp kicks everyone and gives suihkulokki a hug11:46
suihkulokkibecause nobody reads the manpages ? :)11:46
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* timeless_mbp frowns11:48
suihkulokkiwoglinde: the versioning stuff is handled by dpkg-gencontrol, read the the manpage :)11:48
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timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: ok11:49
timeless_mbpso um11:49
timeless_mbpi tried it , and it doesn't seem to like me11:49
inzSurely different binaries from one source is possible, not pretty, but possible11:49
inz~s/binaries/binary versions/11:50
woglindeso you have to override gencontrol too11:50
woglindebut than you dont need dh_installchangelogs I think11:50
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LynoureIs there a pdf reader that would both support zoom and keep the view area between the page changes? (without that, reading pdf ebooks is a pain, as one gets either tiny text or hefty marginals)11:54
timeless_mbpLynoure: i wish11:55
timeless_mbpplease lemme know when you find one11:55
timeless_mbpwhat you mostly want btw, is not that11:55
timeless_mbpbut an "ignore margins feature"11:55
LynoureNo specific feature needed, just "respect my sideways scrolling and don't reset it"11:57
LynoureEvince for N800 was sufficient11:57
Corsachmhm, evince still does that on my desktop, did it change in n900?11:58
Corsacor maybe evince has not yet been ported to fremantle?11:58
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LynoureCorsac: no Evince for N900 yet12:03
LynoureI guess I could look into porting it, instead of being a whiner =)12:03
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woglindehm is there a way to say sdk+ please run this command not with qemu and use the i386 one?12:12
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melmothi m installing the maemo5 sdk, looks i used "sudo ./ –u user" but it looks like the script did not add user in the sbox group12:18
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melmothnor did it create the scratchbox home directory12:18
melmothany idea how i should proceed ?12:18
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melmothlet s try "sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser user"12:23
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woglindehi lardman12:35
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melmothGRmblblb, now i have the infamous Temporary failure resolving ''12:39
lardmanhi woglinde12:40
melmothmy /etc/scratchbox/resolv.conf is the same as the host /etc/resolv.conf12:40
woglindemelmoth hm12:40
woglindeI use sdk+12:40
woglindethere I can solve the problems easy12:40
melmothi use
melmothwhat is sdk+ ?12:41
melmoththe funny thing is, it works ok in armel target12:41
melmothgrumble, my /etc/resolv.conf file within the i386 target was wrong12:43
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melmoththis thing is hitting me every time since , 2007. And each time, it s another file wich is wrong12:43
Jaffamelmoth: "SDK+" is the Scratchbox 2-based SDK.12:46
lardmanMy N900 went from 1/2 charge to dead overnight and therefore my alarm clock didn't go off, slightly worrying12:46
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timeless_mbpJaffa: have you grabbed my updated package? :)12:47
X-Fadelardman: What? You don't charge at night? :)12:47
melmothJaffa: where can i find it ?12:47
ifreqlardman: sure you didnt have any internet app on?12:47
melmothPfffft, and now there is no .12:47
lardmanX-Fade: had the charger in another room12:48
melmoththe maemo5 beta sdk is really , well, beta... not cooked enough12:48
ifreqadd some spices12:48
lardmanifreq: not that I know of, but I must check and see if somehoe autoconnect has been enabled12:48
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X-Fadelardman: check for misbehaving applets or apps that were open?12:48
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Updated package?12:49
timeless_mbpcorrect package name, working applet12:50
timeless_mbp(well "app")12:50
timeless_mbpapp has more features12:50
* Jaffa has no idea what you're talking about... :)12:50
Jaffalardman: My N900 is on charge almost all the time. Wouldn't trust it as an alarm clock if it wasn't12:50
melmothaf-sb-init scrpit is in armel target, but fails with .... qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - core dumped12:51
X-FadeJaffa: Got woken up by a N900 which was turned off and was in a room downstairs today ;)12:51
X-FadeJaffa: Alarm turned it on nicely.12:52
lardmanhi hrw12:52
lardmanX-Fade: yeah will do12:53
hrwquestion: does maemo5 finally contain all packages to build packages on device?12:53
timeless_mbpX-Fade: my calendar's silent brightness change woke me up at times12:53
woglindehi hrw12:53
timeless_mbpat least in AMS12:53
lardmanhrw: building on-device is being done12:53
hrwlardman: great12:54
Jaffahrw: What, out of the box? No, of course not. However, you can install SDK packages on Maemo 4 or Maemo 5, AFAIK12:54
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: blinking?12:54
lardmankeesj: were you talking about building-on device and putting together some details, etc?12:54
timeless_mbpno, just brightness12:54
timeless_mbpthe screen went from off to bright12:54
cosmohello, anyone using idle irc plugin for fremantle?12:54
timeless_mbpand that was sufficient to wake me :o12:54
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Wow, you must be a very light sleeper then.12:55
zerojaycosmo: No one is because it does not work.12:56
lardmananyone know how to upload video to ovi from the N900?12:56
cosmozerojay: well, i got it online and i can /msg to my device12:56
cosmoi was just wondering if it's possible to make it join a channel12:57
zerojaycosmo: Nope.12:57
cosmoor do anything else than just send/receive msg's12:57
X-Fadelardman: play in mediaplayer. hit video, click on share icon in lower left?12:57
timeless_mbplardman: you should be able to select the movie and use share12:57
zerojaycosmo: The UI for multiuser chat was apparently removed in Maemo 5.12:57
timeless_mbponce you have added ovi to your sharing accounts12:57
lardmanX-Fade: I thought it would be somewhere, just cuoldn't work out where12:57
timeless_mbpis share in the lower left?12:58
timeless_mbpoh right, the idiots couldn't keep the buttons in consistent locations across not more than 3 apps :)12:58
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: yeah, that share icon is really weird.12:58
cosmozerojay: maybe it could be hacked to do some more tricks12:58
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timeless_mbpcosmo: i don't recall strings for that stuff12:59
timeless_mbpso hacking it would involve translating it12:59
timeless_mbpat which point you effectively need a new app12:59
zerojaycosmo: There's way more to it than that.12:59
timeless_mbpand since the maemo apps really aren't that great12:59
timeless_mbpyou might as well start elsewhere12:59
zerojayThe ball's in Collabora's court.12:59
timeless_mbpmaemo apps have 2 features: some attempt at small screen/fingerable + some attempts at power conservation13:00
cosmowell, ok.. the messaging seems to work pretty well though13:00
cosmois there any way to send msg from maemo to random irc user?13:01
cosmotoo bad. well integrated irc client would be a killer app13:02
zerojayidle in Maemo 5 has really suffered compared to Maemo 4.13:02
zerojayJust use Xchat, I guess.13:02
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Robot101cosmo, zerojay: actually, we've hacked the official UI to do multi-user chat, we just need to convince rtcom team to ship it as an easter egg :D13:04
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zerojayRobot101: I knew you guys would come up with a solution at some point.13:05
cosmoi never found idle on maemo 413:05
zerojayIt was part of RTCOMM.13:06
cosmobut i'd like to have some "always on" irc solution and use xchat when i really want to do irc13:06
cosmodoes irc eat battery quickly? it at least used to have mandatory ping/pong's in protocol13:06
timeless_mbpRobot101: interesting13:07
* timeless_mbp goes hunting13:07
cosmoi wrote the first irc client to nokia 9500 years ago, dunno if the protocol is smarter nowadays13:07
zerojaycosmo: - IRC through RTCOMM on Maemo 4.13:07
Robot101cosmo: IRC is in no way smart13:07
zerojaycosmo: If IRC used battery quick, I've never noticed it.13:08
* timeless_mbp frowns13:08
* timeless_mbp will definitely need to show a progress indicator13:08
cosmoiirc it had mandatory ping/pong messages with server every minute or so. i think it would eat battery..13:08
timeless_mbp3mins is the typical timeout13:09
argontus_depends on the server I guess but ping/pong happens about once per minute13:09
SpeedEviltimeless: timeout != ping13:09
zerojaySending one small packet shouldn't really take up that much battery, really.13:09
timeless_mbpwhich means you can get away w/ 150s13:09
SpeedEviltimeless: freenode timesout at 5 min IIRC13:09
SpeedEvilbut, it pings every 30s13:09
X-FadeOnce a minute really shouldn't kill your pattery.13:09
timeless_mbpzerojay: waking up the radio is incredibly expensive13:09
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timeless_mbpso much so that we have idiots coming and asking us to break the browser13:09
X-FadeWow, where did that p come from ;)13:09
timeless_mbp"hi, please break the browser"13:10
zerojaytimeless_mbp: Well, if it was, I've never once noticed a battery life hit and I was on IRC all the time.13:10
timeless_mbp"in some extremely deformed test for an impossible edge case, the browser can be harmful if the user takes their device to an incredibly stupid web service"13:10
timeless_mbp"we'd like you to increase the per minute cost for users in countries that are charged by the bit"13:11
woglindewhere are the findutils13:11
timeless_mbpthis was not the way they worded it13:11
timeless_mbpbut these were the results13:11
SpeedEvilI personally want the browser to always freeze if I'm not looking at it.13:11
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: even if it's the active app?13:11
zerojayFuck that.13:11
timeless_mbpwe need to install eye monitoring hardware?13:11
zerojayBrowser freeze means you aren't multitasking anymore. What's the point of that?13:12
SpeedEviltimeless: well - I mean of course if it's offscreen13:12
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: ok, so you don't want to support irc over web in the background13:12
SpeedEvilzerojay: maybe configurable across websites.13:12
timeless_mbpand you don't want to support internet radio in the web browser in the background13:12
timeless_mbpor just listening to a youtube broadcast while you do something else13:12
SpeedEvilzerojay: 99.999% of websites I don't care about the flash/.... content continue to work in background.13:12
timeless_mbpsadly, we've got a pref for you13:12
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timeless_mbpit might even be on by default13:13
timeless_mbpand yes, it's user facing13:13
zerojayI don't want the browser to stop loading a webpage because I switched apps.13:13
* timeless_mbp cries13:13
SpeedEvilzerojay: not quite that aggressive - continue loading, just don't animate13:13
zerojayThat's like seeing commercials come on TV, switching channels to watch something else for a while and coming back to see the commercial paused and waiting for you.13:13
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: you act like we actively paint while we're hidden13:14
zerojayIt already pisses me off enough that the media player app doesn't update when it's not active.13:14
timeless_mbpwe definitely like to paint when you can see us in the task switcher13:14
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timeless_mbpit means you can watch a thumbnail of a youtube video :)13:14
zerojayCan't watch a thumbnail of a local video though.13:15
zerojayEven though it clearly shows that going on in Nokia's marketing vids.13:15
timeless_mbpit did?13:15
zerojayYes, it did.13:15
SpeedEvilPersonally regrettably I - if I was to purchase one - would be on quite limited bandwidth. So I'd like to be able to stop websites doing stuff in the background.13:16
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timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: as i said, we have a user facing pref for this13:16
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SpeedEvilI don't see the 'it causes users more cost'13:16
zerojayAnd while I'm bitching, why is it that if the screen is off and I touch the screen to bring it back on, ONLY Maemo Browser sees and accepts the click instead of just lighting up first and waiting for the next click?13:16
SpeedEvilI was trying to argue that.13:16
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SpeedEvilI've just woken up13:16
zerojayI end up clicking on links accidentally all the time in browser because of it.13:17
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: this is different13:17
zerojayNo other app has this issue.13:17
X-Fadezerojay: Yeah indeed, I noticed that too.13:17
timeless_mbpthis was a demand from modem power monitors to break network connections aggressively13:17
X-Fadezerojay: Annoys me a lot ;)13:17
SpeedEviltimeless: like keep-alive http13:17
timeless_mbpand if you send a break signal, and then later send a new connect signal13:17
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: yep13:17
timeless_mbpyou've sent more data13:17
timeless_mbpand if you're charged for the data13:17
zerojayYeah, it's these small issues that bug me... stuff I wish I could have been on the inside to help fix before it got out into the wild.13:18
timeless_mbpthen you're paying for something that well...13:18
timeless_mbpzerojay: fix which, the marketing video?13:18
* SpeedEvil is currently trying to do a web-hypercompressor. Fun.13:18
timeless_mbpthe marketing team didn't even give me enough time to point out their bugs13:18
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: i'm quite happy w/ SkyFire on my S60 phones13:18
zerojaytimeless_mbp: No, all the random small things that I end up seeing all over the place that almost no one else ever notices.13:18
SpeedEviltimeless: opensource?13:19
timeless_mbpit's built on gecko, does that count?13:19
SpeedEviltimeless: dunno - I'm looking for a generic http proxy that does differential rsync-like transfers between a device cache, and a servers copy of it.13:20
SpeedEviltimeless: preliminary indications are very good on compression.13:20
timeless_mbpthe browser doesn't have any disk cache13:20
timeless_mbpif you want to give your system a nice win13:20
timeless_mbpget a browser that has one ...13:21
* timeless_mbp kicks someone13:21
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: the question is, what kind of sites are you visiting?13:21
SpeedEviltimeless: This is a http proxy - it has a ~50M disk cache - say on the device. It has a copy of this cache on the proxy server. Any downloaded page is served as diffs between the local cache - if it'd help.13:21
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SpeedEviltimeless: ebay, youtube, slashdot, newspaper websites, ...13:22
SpeedEvilAnd yes, graphics are a seperate issue13:22
timeless_mbpgraphics aren't that interesting13:22
timeless_mbpwhat's interesting is sites that update a lot13:22
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timeless_mbpor that rely on AJAX13:22
SpeedEvilYes, that's the specific use-case.13:22 - hit up the frontpage. It's ~100k.13:23
SpeedEvilIt varies on most loads.13:23
SpeedEvilThe actual varying content is ~0.5K most times13:23
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SpeedEvila compressed diff of the page gets really quite small, well over an order of magnitude better than simply gzipping.13:23
zerojayNot a bad idea, but honestly sounds a bit scary.13:24
SpeedEvilzerojay: It basically means you give your entire history to the proxy server. Initially, this is just for personal use.13:24
zerojayhrw: Okay... so...?13:24
nnodi'm trying to package a python program using dpkg-buildpackage, but the resulting .deb installs to /scratchbox/tools/ rather than /, can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong?13:25
hrwzerojay: wrong window,sorry13:25
SpeedEvilAnother big win is ebay/auction1 - if you go to ebay/auction2 - a _lot_ of text in the page is identical, and if you can diff auction2 from auction1...13:25
hrwSpeedEvil: what I would like to see is gzipped imap server+client13:26
SpeedEvilhrw: The same principle would be plausible to implement - but I'm doing http first13:27
timeless_mbpfwiw, nokia messaging does something13:27
timeless_mbpit basically doesn't use pop/imap for client to proxy13:28
timeless_mbpnot sure what it does use13:28
timeless_mbpand i'm pretty sure i don't want to know13:28
ifreqis there a httpd +wiki template for maemo based machines? (dreaming of mini wiki server)13:28
timeless_mbpbut would you trust nokia messaging w/ the password for your mailbox?13:28
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hrwnokia messaging... I tried that on S60 phone and switched to other client13:29
SpeedEviltimeless: my initial use-case for this compressor is running on my neo1973 phone, and my desktop at home. So any privacy concerns don't occur.13:29
SpeedEviltimeless: as I'll even be snooping https13:29
* timeless_mbp nods13:30
timeless_mbpok, i need someone w/ some scripting knowledge13:32
timeless_mbpi need someone to figure out why my locale browser isn't working13:32
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andre__i don't get it. czech hardware keyboard layout lets you enter all diacritical letters without using onscreen palette. polish hardware keyboard layout does not let you enter a single diacritical letter without using onscreen palette. FAIL.13:39
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RST38hhrw: The Maemo version is really really cool13:40
RST38hAndre: please note that if you have got US hardware keyboar dyou cannot even change to any of these with Ctrl+Space13:40
andre__RST38h, i know :-( see the bug report about it...13:41
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RST38hYea, was surprised to find that it exists since Maemo4, actually13:41
andre__somebody should be fired for the polish keyboard layout.... grrr13:41
RST38hIt is actually one of things that have a good enough chance of being fixed as long as you supply new layout file to the report13:42
RST38hAt least the brain damaged Russian layout has been fixed13:42
andre__oh really? haven't tried yet13:42
RST38handre: Have to find a Pole at Maemo team to drive this though13:43
andre__i know some, but not in this area, more like browser :-/13:43
timeless_mbpandre__: install my package again :)13:43
timeless_mbpRST38h: the key layouts were picked13:43
timeless_mbpthere's a rumor of a chance they might shift13:44
andre__timeless_mbp, no idea what you refer to13:44
timeless_mbpbut the hardware layout is printed13:44
timeless_mbpyou can't change it13:44
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RST38hwell, I mean the virtual layout13:44
lbt_nnod: you're in the right place :)13:44
RST38hphysical you can't do much, yes13:44
lbt_nnod: keep an eye out for jeremiah - he may know. Also I think this may have come up last night so you may want to check the logs...13:46
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hrwandre__: there are few Polish people interested in fixing it13:49
andre__feel free to vote for
hrwRST38h: is it able to display 10 mails on one screen (in a list view)?13:50
hrwandre__: will do13:50
hrwandre__: no n900 here anyway13:50
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jeremiahlbt: pong13:54
jeremiahtimeless: pong13:54
lbtjeremiah hi.... I have lots of things for you :)13:54
lbtIf only I could remember....13:54
lbtOne of them was helping to package OBS itself13:55
fralsanyone with a device able to confirm if its possible to add more than one APN for 3g/gprs? or is it still limited to one?13:55
lbtfrals: how?13:55
fralsshould be somewhere under connectivity or something?13:55
ifreqfrals: mayb doing different connection profiles?13:56
ifreqdunno how it do work in n90013:56
fralsi have no idea, and cant explore it since those settings arent in the sdk (as far as i can tell anyway)13:57
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Jaffafrals: The UI only lets you add one packet data connection14:02
Jaffafrals: I *think* gconf will let you have multiple, though14:02
fralsokey cool, thanks14:02
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jeremiahlbt: heh14:09
hrwn900 charge question: it does charge by microusb but charger ends with uUSB plug or 2mm->uUSB adapter is used?14:09
hrwand how much mA n900 charger has?14:09
jeremiahlbt: It would be kinda cool to have an OBS on the maemo infrastructure some where14:09
jeremiahlbt: But I think we have to wait for the move to the new ISP14:09
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SpeedEvilhrw: the included charger ends with microUSB, but there is a circular->microUSB adaptor too I think14:11
pancakei have installed the maemo sdk, but inside the scratchbox shell i have no apt-get or glib.h14:11
pancake(the maemo5)14:11
hrwSpeedEvil: thx14:11
woglindepancake sdk+ makes life easier14:11
JaffaSpeedEvil: A circular->microUSB adapter where?14:12
woglindepancake google search maemo sdk+14:14
fralsanyone knows if the docs danielwilms mentioned here is the basic telepathy doc or if i have missed the specifics on call/sms14:14
SpeedEvilJaffa: please ignore me. I am basing this off something that I saw, I may have misconstrued.14:16
pancakedoes it supports n900?14:16
danielwilmsfrals: at the moment it is just the telepathy docs14:16
cosmoat least my n900 come with circular->usb adapter14:16
fralsoh, you where in the channel :)14:16
zerojayI didn't get anything but a broken European charger that doesn't work with the N900 anyways. lol14:17
danielwilmsfrals: we are a bit delayed with that part of the documentation ;)14:17
Robot101the extra APIs for maemo are in;a=summary14:17
pancakewoglinde: only for ubuntu/debian ?14:17
fralsfigured as much - any eta at all or "when its done"? :)14:17
woglindepancake hm fremantle5.0beta1_armel For OS2009Beta1 (armel SDK)    2009-04-28 (248.8M)14:17
danielwilmsRobot101: thx...but there should be some additional docu soon14:18
fralsRobot101: thanks14:18
woglindepancake dont know I only use ubuntu or debian14:18
Robot101danielwilms: from the telepathy book? or some more stuff?14:18
pancakethere's a standalone installer14:18
pancakein python14:19
pancakewill try that14:19
Robot101nobody spoke to us in rtcom about documentation - the abook team wrote some stuff for their library though14:19
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jeremiahlbt: Does it have anything to do with that backlogged task?14:19
danielwilmsRobot101 let me check that14:20
jeremiahThe one that popped up on mer chatter saying improve QA checking?14:20
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nnodlbt: thanks14:21
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Robot101danielwilms: we have
Robot101danielwilms: its a nice start but needs more work and examples14:21
SpeedEvilThe emitters of the oscillator transistors are connected to ground, the collectors to 100R resistors to +, the bases to 10K resistors to +, and the capacitors are connected from the emitter of one transistor to the base of the other.14:21
Robot101danielwilms: would be good to pool any resources on docs in the same direction14:21
pancakeFailed to get distribution information.. haha14:22
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danielwilmsRobot101 ok...I have to check that and get some more I'm not completely sure ;)14:23
hrwcosmo: so how much mA does n900 charger has?14:23
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Robot101danielwilms: cool feel free to ping if you have any questions14:23
X-Fadecosmo: 120014:23
X-Fadeehm hrw ;)14:23
pancakeobnly supported ones are debian+ubuntu14:23
hrwX-Fade: thx14:23
danielwilmsRobot101 will do14:24
pancakethe standalone script relies on deb/ubu... it sucks14:24
woglindepancake hm okay sorry14:24
hrwthux: so more powerfull then mine 800mA one14:24
cosmomy charger is at home14:24
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wazdheya maemo14:27
fralslo o/14:28
Stskeepslo wazd14:30
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woglindehi wazd14:31
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nnodi'm trying to package a python program using dpkg-buildpackage, but the resulting .deb installs to /scratchbox/tools/ rather than /, can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong?14:36
lizardonnod: you need to modify your packaging to call python2.5 explicitely14:36
lizardonnod: otherwise it will call "python" which in turn will call the Scratchbox's internal python (2.3)14:36
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nnodlizardo: thanks, will try that14:37
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nnodlizardo: that was the problem, changing python to python2.5 in the Makefile fixed it14:39
nnodlizardo: thanks!14:39
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lizardonnod: :) good to know if you have python specific issues, feel free also to ask on the pymaemo-developers mailing list:
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: hrw: Still it's highly obscure *how* charging is actually done. The 1200mA might not be a mandatory capability of charger14:42
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DocScrutinizerand it seems this and the USB-hostmode topic is still work in progress14:44
DocScrutinizerprobably both closely related14:45
mgedminwell USB charging from laptops is not guaranteed to provide 1200mA14:45
DocScrutinizer500mA is max14:45
mgedminin other news, my nokia 6600 can be charged via its microUSB port, yay, I can use the same charger for both14:45
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DocScrutinizerit's highly unlikely you see 1200mA from a PC usbhost14:46
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SpCombcharged via its microSD port14:46
mgedminalthough the slim nokia charger socket is more accessible than the break-your-nails-cover-covered microusb14:46
guysoft42did anyone here manage to compile a wireless module for the Nokia N810? i wanted to connect an external USB14:46
guysoft42i tried compiling rt73usb, but it seems that they moved on to 2.6.27 kernels14:46
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nnodhas anyone tested the n900 with a mintyboost charger yet?14:47
DocScrutinizernnod: not with mintyboost, but with Openmoko Freerunner ;-P14:47
DocScrutinizernnod: didn't work out that smooth14:48
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nnodDocScrutinizer: you mean charging the n900 from the freerunner?14:49
mgedminI love how "ten oldest open enhancements" list in the bug jar has entries saying "(new this week)"14:51
DocScrutinizerthe question is: Does N900 follow the Nokiacharger / USB2.0- charger supplement scheme, which requires a arther "soft" PSU that drops voltage on increasing curent. Or does N900 simply try to draw whatever current from USB-VBUS unconditionally and assuming a "hard" PSU that is supposed to cope with max current the N900 ay ask for14:51
DocScrutinizernnod: yep, charging N900 from FR14:52
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, there's a MicroUSB charging specification. Might have clues14:52
DocScrutinizerFR is a "hard" PSU with 500mA max14:52
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: [2009-10-19 13:51:45] <DocScrutinizer> the question is: Does N900 follow the Nokiacharger / USB2.0- charger supplement scheme14:52
nnodwow, must be a big drain on the battery14:53
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: USB2.0- charger supplement == MicroUSB charging specification14:53
hrwlcuk: alive?14:53
ShadowJKI know someone made their freerunner extremely hot when they used it to charge N900 ;-)14:53
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that's what I referred to14:54
suihkulokkiDocScrutinizer: I don't think anyone knowing that stuff idles on irc, you might try maemo-devel for better luck14:54
suihkulokkimaemo-devel mailing list, that is14:54
Corsachow much current can an usb port supply?14:54
ShadowJKCorsac, 500mA14:54
SpeedEvilCorsac: it's a complex subject.14:55
DocScrutinizersuihkulokki: thanks a lot14:55
Corsacso with 7 usb port one could charge a touchbook14:55
* Corsac hides14:55
SpeedEvilCorsac: The normal USB port is specified to provide 500mA14:55
ShadowJKCorsac, only if the USB hub has a powersupply capable of it14:55
suihkulokkibut: also, when n900 is in the market, it will be usb certified, including ensuring it adheres to all requirements of usb charging spec14:55
SpeedEvilCorsac: but it may in practice supply more.14:55
Corsacyeah, 7 independant usb port14:55
hrwCorsac: USB spec says that host usb port should give 100mA and can give 500mA. It is also possible to give any amount in 0-500mA range14:55
SpeedEvilNot quite - the device declares it uses so much current - and the host enables it or not depending on if the total of current is under 500mA.14:56
SpeedEvilTehre is not typically any measurement or regulation of current14:56
koala_mancan the N900 work as a usb host?14:57
ShadowJKkoala_man, current information: no14:57
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: the "better" host PHY chips do meassurement14:57
SpeedEvilThe port will simply turn off at some current over 500mA if overloaded. (where some current may be 0.55A or 2A, depending on stuff)14:57
SpeedEvilyes - it's increasing14:57
* suihkulokki has seen usb hubs that feed electricity towards the host pc too, so with cheap hubs anything goes, it seems..14:57
DocScrutinizerevery PHY has to do OC prot14:57
cosmokoala_man: i think i saw the usb mode changer in repository.. i guess it's like in previous maemo devices14:58
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (will simply) exactly14:58
koala_manI don't know how it is in previous maemo devices :O14:58
ShadowJKsuihkulokki, those are funny "Hey, how come the fan on my video card spins even when my computer is off?"14:58
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lcukhrw, yeah14:58
DocScrutinizersuihkulokki: that's really nasty14:59
mgedmincosmo: the existence of software doesn't imply that it actually works14:59
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, it's the battle of the PSUs, the weaker PSU goes up in smoke eventually :-)14:59
DocScrutinizersuihkulokki: though great for FR which can use this to charge in hostmode even14:59
mgedminit could be a straight recompile of a program that tries to poke values into a file in /sys14:59
hrwlcuk: query read please14:59
suihkulokkiShadowJK: or "Hey how come the sheevaplug still works over ssh when in plugged it of the wall"14:59
mgedminno guarantees that that /sys file actually exists in maemo 5's kernel14:59
ShadowJKsuihkulokki, my NSLU2 did that :-)15:00
ShadowJKbut then the HUBs PSU died :-(15:00
lcukread what hrw15:00
suihkulokkiShadowJK: I wonder why.. :P15:00
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timeless_mbpsp3000: so, i found my problem :)15:03
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cosmomgedmin: true. but i doubt no-one would release it in the repos if it wouldn't work at all15:06
mgedmincosmo: people release it to the repos so they (or somebody else) can install it and see whether it works or not15:07
mgedminI haven't heard anybody report "hey, usb host works!" yet15:07
DocScrutinizerand I think there are some N900-owners around here to do that15:07
mgedminso far I've heard "we've been told it doesn't; maybe, just maybe, you could hack something with an external usb power injector etc."15:07
mgedminlike with 77015:08
DocScrutinizer(check sysfs, try switching usb-mode)15:08
cosmowell, i have a n900 but no usb cable to test with here15:08
DocScrutinizermgedmin: exactly15:08
mihuOn my N900, I usually just turn on screen lock , I don't use the lock function that locks it with a number. I don't have a watch, so for checking time and date, I just push the power button on the top, then the device powers up and shows the time and date, along with the "slider" widget to actually unlock the screen.15:08
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: But you know that the number of people with a voltmeter, or the knowledge to do cables, and ...15:08
mihuFor me, it's annoying that I cannot turn off the device with a single press on the power button again. So either I have to really unlock the device with the slider widget, then press the power button and select lock again. Or I have to wait for 5 seconds on the slider screen, then it turns off automatically.15:08
mihuOf course there is the danger, that presses on the touchscreen will keep it alive afterwards. Does anybody find this annoying as well?15:09
SpeedEviland the interest is tiny15:09
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: a shame :-S15:09
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mgedminmihu: no; I just wait 5 seconds15:10
RurouniJonesHow does one set the font size for a gtk.label using python?15:11
ShadowJKre usb host, there's also some drivers on t.m.o. waiting for testers15:11
mgedminmihu: you can wiggle the side-slider twice15:11
* timeless_mbp rotfl15:11
timeless_mbpHAL is obsolete?15:11
mgedminnot side slider; how do you call that springy thingy on the side?  lock switch, that's what15:11
mgedmintimeless_mbp: have you missed the DevKit crusade?15:12
mgedminHAL is out of fashion these days15:12
timeless_mbpi just got the memo!15:12
mihumgedmin: That's interesing, yes the lock switch works. But I would prefer that the power button just locks the device again. Should be easy to fix, or?15:13
* mgedmin shrugs, indicating don't care15:13
timeless_mbpyou want the power button to lock the device?15:13
* timeless_mbp frowns15:13
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timeless_mbpdoesn't make sense :)15:13
ShadowJKwhat was wrong with hal? let me guess, not enough xml?15:14
lcukit wouldnt open the SIM bay doors15:14
mihutimeless_mbp: Nope, please re-read my initial post. Device is screen-locked (no number lock) => press power button => device turns on, shows slider => press power button again => nothing. IMO it should just send the device back to screen-lock.15:14
timeless_mbpdunno, my memo just said that hal wasn't expressive enough for networking from some platforms15:14
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nnodlizardo: now i remember why i changed python2.5 to python in the Makefile the first place, autobuilder fails because it can't find python2.5. any ideas?15:15
timeless_mbpmihu: so if the device is screen locked15:15
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timeless_mbpand you press and hold the power key, do you expect it to turn off?15:15
timeless_mbpi'd claim that's unexpected15:15
lizardonnod: you need to add "python-dev" to Build-Depends, on debian/control15:15
timeless_mbphowever, if the screen is on (at device lock)15:15
timeless_mbpthen pressing and holding the power key for a while will kill the device15:16
timeless_mbpwith your requested behavior, things get really confusing15:16
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mihutimeless_mbp: No, please don't get confused. 8-) Or am I getting confused. I have set my device to german language, so I don't know how it the modes are called in english. Let me switch it to english, one moment.15:17
mgedminShadowJK: has a couple of links about why hal is being deprecated15:17
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RST38hNice choice of the page name15:19
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mihutimeless_mbp: Ok. N900 is up and running => press power button short => "Lock screen and keys". Then: press power button short again "Swipe to unlock" message appears. Now when pressing the power button short again, nothing happens. But I would expect that this would send the N900 to "Lock screen and keys" mode again. Instead I have to wait 5 seconds, or unlock the device and lock it again.15:20
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timeless_mbpfrom the swipe to unlock screen15:21
timeless_mbppress and hold the power key for 15s15:21
timeless_mbpdoes the device turn off?15:21
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DocScrutinizerthat should always work, as I'd expect hat to be a hw feature of the PMU15:21
Stskeepsnaah. power key is sw controlled15:22
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mihutimeless_mbp: Yes it does. But this is not what I want. A short press on the power button while in "swipe to unlock" mode, should send the device back to "Lock screen and keys" mode.15:22
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: surely not entirely ;-D15:22
timeless_mbpif your device is in your pocked and locked15:22
timeless_mbpdo you want press and hold on the power key to kill it?15:22
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: hard to do sw-control when cpu is unpowered15:22
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: yep15:23
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: on n8x0 it was like that.15:23
mihutimeless_mbp: My use case is that I don't have a watch. With my other cell phone I do: pull out of pocket, press power button once, look at time & date, press power button again to send it back to sleep, put into pocket again. This does not work with N900.15:23
emanuelezany easy way to install mplayer or vlc on a N900?15:24
ShadowJKmihu, it doesn't STAY locked when you press power button?15:24
suihkulokkimihu: why do you care? just look at the time on the unlock screen and put the phone back in the pocket.15:24
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: it's not any more likely to accidentally press powerbutton for 15sec in your pocket, than to accidentally unlock with slider switch15:24
X-FadeRemember that there is still the proximity sensor.15:24
DocScrutinizermihu: perfect usecase15:24
ShadowJKDoes pressing powerbutton really make it unlock?15:25
mihusuihkulokki: Any contact on the touch screen will keep it in the "swipe to unlock" mode. You have to wait 5 seconds without any touch on the touchscreen. That sucks.15:25
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mihuShadowJK: No, it does not fully unlock. Just the "swipe to unlock" dialog pops up, which shows the date & time.15:26
glassthe swipe to unlock screen doesn't have time/calendar?15:26
DocScrutinizersuihkulokki: that's exactly the problem. Lock screen rarely means the timer-reset for autosuspend on ts-event is disabled15:26
lcukcan i divorce my girlfriend15:26
suihkulokkiDocScrutinizer: there is no autosuspend15:26
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: the slider should be relatively hard to hit15:26
timeless_mbpif it isn't, then it has issues15:26
DocScrutinizersuihkulokki: ack. Sorry was misguided by other less cute devices15:27
mgedminlcuk: sure, but first you would have to marry her15:27
lcukof cripes15:28
lcukoh cripes even15:28
DocScrutinizersuihkulokki: still the basic requirement of lockscreen should not reset any timer on touch-event, remains the same15:28
RST38hlcuk: You can, wed her first, then divorce the next day!15:29
mgedminI need a second pair of eyes15:29
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RST38hmgedmin: at which part of your body?15:29
mgedmincan somebody look at and say what should be done about the bug?15:29
mgedminit's not really a bug, just a very very unintuitive "works as designed" "feature"15:29
timeless_mbpmgedmin: interesting15:30
mgedminI sort of closed it as invalid sort of  by accident15:30
timeless_mbpi'd reopen and fix the summary15:30
mgedminI'm thinking I should create a new enhancement request "provide a dialog for subscribing/unsubscribing to IMAP folders"15:30
timeless_mbpit should say "no way to manage subscriptions to imap folders"15:30
timeless_mbpnote that you shouldn't specify "dialog"15:30
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: good point15:30
timeless_mbpthat's forcing a decision15:30
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RST38hmgedmin: Should not be stated in a way that allows to classify it as enhancement15:31
angasuleWorkshucks :( I think my phone provider uses 850/1900 frequencies, which are not compatible with the N900? :(15:31
lizardonnod: I just noticed that you are trying to upload scrabbledict on Diablo & Chinook right ?15:31
RST38hmgedmin: Will still be classified that way, but do not create any opportunities15:31
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lizardonnod: in this case, it is better to Build-Depend on "python2.5",  because "python-dev" only exists in Fremantle15:31
mgedminjust how many different sets of frequencies are there?15:32
DocScrutinizerangasuleWork: N900 is quadband GSM afaik15:32
RST38hmgedmin: "Unable to see unsubscribed IMAP folders in Modest" for a title will do15:32
mihuThanks everybody for the discussion. I think I will file an enhancement request wrt. to that issue. Any idea into which category I should put it?15:32
RST38hmgedmin: And make sure you mention all the other masil clients that allow this in the comments15:32
timeless_mbpno, don't ask for the ability to view unsubscribed folders15:32
angasuleWorkDocScrutinizer: then wikipedia is wrong oh noes, how can that be? :?15:32
timeless_mbpjust the ability to manage subscriptions15:32
mgedminIIRC the n900 supports 4 frequencies for 2G and 3 frequences for 3G, but there are carriers out there who use a different 3G frequency15:32
RST38hthat would probably do too15:33
RST38hAlthough it is somewhat more complicated than it has to be15:33
DocScrutinizerangasuleWork: Quadband-Mobiltelefon für GSM 850/900/1800/1900-Netze/EDGE15:33
RST38hMaybe mentioning that "see" and "access" a folder is two different things is in order15:33
DocScrutinizerUMTS-Netze (WCDMA 900/1700/2100)15:33
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RST38hI.e. clicking on an unsubscribed folder should bring up the dialog requesting if you want a subscription to it15:34
timeless_mbpi can have thousands of unsubscribed folders15:34
timeless_mbpbeing forced to see all unsubscribed folders all the time would be awful15:34
angasuleWorkDocScrutinizer: It will not function on the AT&T Mobility UMTS 3G networks which use the incompatible 850 and 1900 MHz UMTS frequency bands.15:35
angasuleWorkDocScrutinizer: those appear to be the same my provider uses, meh15:35
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DocScrutinizerangasuleWork: which incompatible 850 and 1900 MHz UMTS frequency bands???15:36
RST38hThounsands of unsubscribed folders will be impossible to display even in the subscription dialog15:36
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RST38hSo with thousands of folders you are fucked either way15:36
mgedminhey! two of my photos (the most recent ones) are missing!15:36
RST38hmgedmin: Tracker.15:36
RST38hOr you have not taken them.15:36
mgedminbut they were there an hour ago15:36
X-Fademgedmin: not missing, just not indexed yet?15:36
mgedminone of them had the wrong thumbnail15:36
timeless_mbpa manager that lets me search to select to subscribe is fine15:36
X-Fademgedmin: ugh.15:36
mgedmininteresting bug btw: take photo, look at thumbnail, delete photo, take new photo, it gets the same filename and the thumbnail is not regenerated15:37
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mgedminI thought maybe my n900 was just slow (because it was horribly horribly slow)15:37
mgedmin(swapping all the time)15:37
mgedminso I waited, and now I go back and see if the thumbnail was updated -- but the photo isn't there any more15:37
jaskaswapping, ouch15:37
mgedminand neither is the one I took yesterday15:37
DocScrutinizerangasuleWork: Oh I see, you think your provider using UMTS on 850/190015:37
timeless_mbpmgedmin: nice15:37
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mgedminaccording to the timestamps the file is there in MyDocs/DCIM15:38
mgedminjust the photos app lost track of it15:38
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mgedminbtw two of my older photos have large black squares with dim grey borders instead of thumbnails15:38
* mgedmin blames tracker for all the ills15:38
timeless_mbpgood choice :)15:38
emanuelezany easy way to install mplayer or vlc on a N900?15:39
X-Fadeemanuelez: apt-get install mplayer15:39
mgedminmplayer exists in extras-devel15:39
zerojaymplayer's in extras-devel.15:39
timeless_mbpuse ham :)15:39
zerojaykmplayer too.15:39
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mgedminanybody else *hate* how you get an email notification, click on it, then modest opens and just sits there doing nothing, displaying your account list?  I *hate* that15:40
timeless_mbpmgedmin: it doesn't always do that15:40
timeless_mbpit only *usually* does that :)15:40
mgedminI don't hate it when it doesn't do that ;)15:40
zerojaymgedmin: It opens up to the new e-mail all the time for me.15:40
timeless_mbpif there isn't a bug, please carefully research it (hint: quit the app)15:40
X-FadeSometimes I do see the new mail.15:40
mgedminI do hate a bit how when it actually displays the email it has the trash and next/prev buttons disabled15:41
timeless_mbpthen file it15:41
zerojayI've never not seen it go directly to the new e-mail.15:41
mgedminsee? the "please carefully research" bit is why I don't file bugs usually15:41
mgedminI'm supposed to be working now15:41
nnodlizardo: ok, thanks15:41
woglindeemanuelez why you want mplaer when gstreamer with dsp support is there?15:41
mgedminnot filing bugs (or chatting on IRC for that matter)15:41
DocScrutinizerangasuleWork: which provider? which country?15:41
angasuleWorkDocScrutinizer: Claro, Argentina15:41
mikkov__X-Fade: openarena-data is stuck somewhere in importing process
woglindeemanuelez mplayer has no dsp support only neon15:42
mgedminzerojay: it tends to happen when the n900 is busy (many apps, you're actively switching between them instead of waiting etc.)15:42
nnodlizardo: yes, i'm trying to get it through autobuilder15:42
zerojaymgedmin: Not to me.15:42
X-Fademikkov__: hmm let me see where ;)15:42
mgedminslow remote imap server may be a prerequisite, hm15:42
timeless_mbpmgedmin: the trick from memory is that there's a difference between having mail open and not open15:43
emanuelezi'm just trying to play an mp4 video taken, funny enough, with an old nokia phone15:43
nnodlizardo: just to clarify, is it Build-Depends on python2.5-dev or python2.5?15:43
timeless_mbpthat's the only item i know of that causes a significant difference15:43
timeless_mbpthat and maybe getting an alert for multiple messages15:43
lizardonnod: sorry, it is "python2.5-dev"15:43
DocScrutinizerangasuleWork:  might be you're really out of luck then15:44
woglindeemanuelez ->
nnodlizardo: thanks, it's back in the queue...15:47
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RST38h"Amiga Inc and Hyperion Entertainment announced a settlement over ownership and licensing over AmigaOS 4.0 and future versions."15:48
* RST38h facepalms, falling to the floor and laughing15:48
w00tyou rang?15:48
* lcuk drags his a1200 out of the closet15:48
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RST38hThis reminds me of a WashPost article about two last Jews in Kabul, fighting over the last Torah scroll...15:49
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X-Fademikkov__: It was rejected in by the queue manager somehow. Now checking the logs to see why exactly.15:52
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X-Fademikkov__: Apart for the fact that it is freaking 300MB ;)15:53
angasuleWorkDocScrutinizer: poop :( thanks15:53
lcukX-Fade, optify it!15:54
X-Fadelcuk: I'm guessing mikkov did that ;)15:54
lcukthen why did it fail :P :D15:54
X-FadeSize mismatch ;)15:55
X-FadeMy guess is that the copy took too long..15:55
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X-Fademikkov__: Yeah, it failed because it didn't copy the 600MB of files in place in time before the manager ran..15:57
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woglindeX-Fade uh15:58
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fiferboymgedmin: Thanks for the patches!16:01
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lcukhi rkirti \o16:02
lcukyo woglinde and fiferboy16:02
rkirti'lo lcuk16:02
fiferboyhey lcuk16:02
* timeless_mbp grumbles16:02
timeless_mbpmaemo-launcher died16:02
lcukhows it goin this mornin16:02
lcuk:( timeless16:02
* lcuk grumbles about app manager kinetics16:03
X-Fademikkov__: You did optify this monster, right?16:03
timeless_mbpit has kinetics?16:03
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lcukvery nicely so16:03
bilboed-pianyone using scratchbox on gentoo ~amd64 ?16:04
timeless_mbphow well does it work for 1,000 items/16:04
lcukyeah timeless16:04
timeless_mbpbilboed-pi: try sb216:04
lcukgetting to "m" is a bit of a challenge16:04
timeless_mbpscratchbox is generally a pain for 64bit16:04
woglindebilboed-pi you have to setup 32 bit chroot and sb216:04
woglindeand thats funny16:05
bilboed-piwoglinde, timeless_mbp ... why do I have this feeling it'll be easier to just install scratchbox in a vm ? :)16:05
woglinde-> chroot -> chroot and qemu16:05
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mgedminhi fiferboy16:05
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timeless_mbpbilboed-pi: i just use Mer in VirtualBox16:05
timeless_mbpit's much easier16:05
woglindebliboed read the doku16:05
woglindehow to setup up16:05
bilboed-piwoglinde, where ?16:05
woglindeI find chroot faster16:05
mikkov__X-Fade: it uses /opt, yes16:06
* lcuk scrolls fiferboy up towards alaska16:06
X-Fademikkov__: good ;016:06
fiferboyAlaska is very far to the North and West...16:06
mikkov__X-Fade: probably should be using MyDocs, but was lazy, as ioquake3 isn't end user ready16:06
lcukfiferboy, free scrolling16:06
woglindebildoed-pi is your task how to get a debian chroot under gentoo16:07
X-Fademikkov__: No it still has some issues.16:07
fiferboyI should have just scrolled to Amsterdam16:07
lcukpanning is allowed16:07
lcukbut it stops after each page16:07
lcukso you have to get a bit way on the way16:07
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mikkov__X-Fade: I think it needs 600 MB free space on /home to install it :)16:08
X-Fademikkov__: Nice proof of concept, but not really practical.16:09
lizardonnod: you are putting the "Build-Depends" field on the wrong place in debian/control :)16:09
lizardonnod: it should be on the first "paragraph", where you see: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5)16:09
timeless_mbplizardo: hey, i did that :)16:09
lizardonnod: change it to :  Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), python2.5-dev16:10
mikkov__X-Fade: if ioquake is ever good enough I'll change it to use MyDocs16:10
lcukshould an app package be installing anything at all to MyDocs16:10
* mgedmin thinks 2 gigs in home (aka /opt) ought to be enough for quake and all the other apps16:10
X-Fademikkov__: Please ping me when you do that, so I can clean up the repo.16:11
* mgedmin wishes his root partition weren't filled up to bursting already16:11
mikkov__X-Fade: I won't be doing anything for it. Just would like to see it extras-devel16:12
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X-Fadennod: How about only uploading for one arch until it actually builds?16:15
* timeless_mbp kicks Disconnect 16:15
timeless_mbpevil :)16:15
X-Fadennod: Your now spamming the list on all archs :)16:15
X-Fades/Your/You are/16:16
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infobotX-Fade meant: nnod: You are now spamming the list on all archs :)16:16
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lcukmornin qwerty12_N81016:26
qwerty12_N810Hullo, lcuk16:26
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hrwhi qwerty12_N81016:27
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qwerty12_N810Hiya, hrw. Got your eyes set on N900 emulation? :p16:28
hrwqwerty12_N810: no, played a bit with real one (not mine)16:28
hrwqwerty12_N810: if I would get Quim mail day before I would play more16:28
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qwerty12_N810My one is acting up, actually16:29
lcuk:( q16:30
lcukwhats up with it16:30
penguinbaitdid you file a bug?16:30
lcukhiya pb16:30
penguinbaithey lcuk16:31
Stskeepscouncil mailing list is btw/16:31
qwerty12_N810Seems to be loading a shitton of processes upon startup and the file manager is messing me around16:31
qwerty12_N810Just gonna reflash and be done with it16:31
penguinbaitcouncil mailing?16:32
Stskeepswell if i am to mail council :)16:32
penguinbaityes, thats correct16:32
Shapeshifterlol the 'did your n900 ship today' thread is a laugh16:32
qwerty12_N810Shapeshifter: I had some fun in that thread and was told to kill myself...16:33
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Shapeshifterpeople can really get worked up. especially about "mid september". I've always read mid-october >:>16:34
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qwerty12_N810hrw: You're certainly deserving of the discount. Whether you actually want it is another matter...16:34
RST38hMarcin, you are getting your N900 no matter what =)16:34
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Shapeshifterand you always have to add at least one months to any release date16:34
Shapeshifterso I'm expecting it mid novermber.16:35
ShadowJKbesides, it's the usual staggered style :)16:35
ShadowJKNokia Shop gets it first, some "select" stores get some "limited" shipments next, etc16:36
Shapeshifternokia shop... there isn't even anything like that in Switzerland ^^16:36
ShapeshifterI wish there was.16:37
Shapeshifterlots of apple shops -.-16:37
penguinbaitare you wishing for apple shops?16:37
Shapeshifterno. there _are_ lots of apple shops, while there isn't a single nokia shop.16:38
woglindehm do I get one too when finished the jalimo stuff?16:38
woglindehm I should port qtnx now to fremantle16:39
woglindeshoulnt be that hard16:39
mgedminaugh, I suck at web paes16:40
mgedminaugh, I suck at web pages16:40
mgedminhow do I get to the Maemo 5 SDK documentation from the front page?16:40
hrwShapeshifter: nokia shops? man... after many years nokia finally opened one in Poland16:40
hrwShapeshifter: and it never had tablets16:40
mgedminduh: press on 'development', not on 'community'16:40
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Shapeshifterhrw: :|16:41
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clmntchgoo morning16:42
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* mgedmin is trying to figure out what's special about the +/- keys16:42
woglindehm is there pipe symbol reachable via the keyboard?16:42
hrwwoglinde: on tablets?16:43
hrwwoglinde: on n810 I had that as Shift+space iirc16:43
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mgedminwoglinde: it's reachable from the fn+ctrl popup16:44
woglindemgedmin okay so only softkey again16:45
mgedminlack of ~ on hardware kb irritates me more16:45
mgedminI need it for xterm-y things16:45
mgedminnow I have to press fn+ctrl+dead_tilde+space16:45
mgedminwhere dead_tilde is a softkey16:46
hrwmgedmin: or create proper kb layout instead of maemo one16:46
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woglindemgedmin maybee it depends on localized keyboards16:46
mgedminon my todo list, hrw16:46
hrwn810 keyboard layouts were also crappy16:46
mgedminI kinda liked the n810, except it was impossible to type [/]16:46
timeless_mbpeveryone loves to gripe about keylayouts16:46
timeless_mbpfwiw, i too get annoyed by ~16:47
mgedminfor typing actual English text the n900 kb is sweeeet16:47
timeless_mbpmgedmin: um16:47
timeless_mbpi find my hands shift one letter horizontally :(16:47
mgedminyeah, I had that too :)16:48
mgedminfingers too used to the n810 I guess16:48
* timeless_mbp shrugs16:48
timeless_mbpi never really adapted to the n810 keyboard16:48
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pancakeis there any repo for the n900 to install the sdk natively?16:50
pancakejust need gcc and -dev packages16:50
pancakegdb and so on..16:50
Stskeepspancake: i suspect the rootstrap may be usable as a chroot16:50
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pancakeany direct url to download it?16:51
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JamieBennettwho has access to change a feed address for, its has the wrong one for me now :(16:52
timeless_mbpfile a bug ;-)16:53
X-FadeJamieBennett: me16:53
X-FadeJamieBennett: What is the correct one?16:53
* JamieBennett goes looking16:54
JamieBennettdamn you wordpress, how do you export just a tag (or category)?16:58
JamieBennettah found it17:00
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JamieBennettX-Fade: do you have the feedburner url for my feed?
pupnikstrange things here - n810 now also inreboot loop17:01
JamieBennettcool, the problem was my end then, thanks17:02
mgedminpancake: just be careful and don't try apt-get dist-upgrades with the SDK repo enabled17:03
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pancakemgedmin: i will try to use it in a chroot17:03
fiferboymgedmin: Have you had a chance to try switching networks with the ip applet?17:03
mgedminhow do I use xprop to *set* window properties? I always get "unsupported conversion"17:03
pancaketo not interfer the system fs17:03
mgedminfiferboy: yep, works fine17:04
fiferboymgedmin: Great.  It works fine for me too, and non-cellular networks17:04
* mgedmin finds an answer to his xprop question:
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mgedminhaaaack!  xprop -id $window_id -f _HILDON_ZOOM_KEY_ATOM 32a -set _HILDON_ZOOM_KEY_ATOM 1 and my fbreader now gets volume key events17:08
pupnikso one week after 300 prototypes lent out at summit.  what is the bugreport score?17:09
pupnikaight im makin it a threead17:10
pancakeis there a way to bind Fn+Up to make it generate the '|' character? (n810/n900)17:10
pancakemgedmin: thanks :) it worked17:11
mgedmin is a scary url17:11
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RST38hmgedmin: Dirty hacker, indeed17:18
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RST38hthe real problem of course is that they do not make it easier for us17:18
RST38hpupnik: Dunno abou tthe others, but I pretty much carpet -bombed bugzilla. Ask andre, he isn't happy =)17:19
mgedminwho are "they"?17:19
RST38hmgedmin: Maemo Devices platform team.17:19
andre__heh. well, it's not that I want to be happy all the time :)17:19
RST38hmgedmin: Alternatively, it may be the hildon desktop team17:19
andre__it's more that i can do more if i get good, exact bug reports :)17:19
mgedminstep 1: distribute 300 devices to people so they could provide feedback. step 2: 300 people flood bugzilla.  step 3: ???17:19
andre__step 3: see andre__ trying to handle it17:19
RST38hDo I see suicide at step 4?17:20
qwerty12_N810Nokia hit squad17:20
andre__RST38h, no, more like quitting the job :-P17:20
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mgedminrst, don't give him any ideas!17:20
RST38handre: That would be considered suicide by the Maemo community =)17:20
andre__i'm masochistic to a certain level, but not in a physically sense ;-)17:21
mgedminwe need a bugmaster, and we'll never find anybody else stupi^H^H^H^H^H willing to take the job!17:21
andre__finally a sentence i can come up with when renegotiating the money :)17:21
qwerty12_N810andre__: Yeah, you can't leave those Nokians without a messenger; they'll want to commit suicide everytime!17:21
pupnikthot it was sshorter17:21
SpeedEvilclipped at &ke17:22
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pupniki trying to cme up with a search for all n900 releated bugs created since oct 1217:22
Ceron^so i heard that the ovi maps sucks on the n90017:23
Ceron^is it true?17:23
andre__your query also covers those tickets updated (not: filed) since oct1217:23
pupniki do not know17:23
andre__Ceron^, yes17:23
qwerty12_N810Ceron^: I wouldn't call it speedy, not by a long shot...17:23
mgedminCeron^: it both sucks and is kinda nice17:23
mgedminthe loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong startup time sucks17:23
Ceron^what does that meen?17:23
mgedminlack of ability to work offline sanely sucks17:23
mgedminhaving a usable world map out of the box kinda rules17:24
Ceron^are there alternative gps software for the n900?17:24
Ceron^except for the maemo mapper17:24
mgedminsearching for "chinese restaurant" in gothenburg, sweden gives me 15 hits in united arab emirates 4000 km away, which is fun, but not useful17:24
pupniki am sorry to ask, but why am i gettin zarro bugs?
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mgedminhas maemo-mapper been ported yet?17:24
* RST38h finds it strange there werent any hits in china17:25
RST38hnot yet and the author has not spoken for a long time17:25
Ceron^are there other gps maps for n900 than maemomapper + ovi maps17:25
Ceron^the silence suggests to a no :\17:26
RST38hOh, niiice17:26
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* mgedmin is trying to learn how to use for publishing screenshots of maemo apps17:27
JaffaCeron^: OSM2Go, NavIt, ...17:27
mgedminso uploading is easy; but what's the URL of the thing I just uploaded?17:27
mgedminosm2go is not really a gps map app17:27
RST38hmgedmin: sure you are not masochistic?17:27
RST38hnavit on n900?17:28
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woglindeRST38h lennart didnt setup unit test and didnt test compiling with other libc's17:28
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mgedminso, test: can you people access this picture, or does it as for login: ?17:28
woglindewe alwaya have to patch it17:28
mgedminalso, have you seen this facebook widget bug?17:28
RST38hwoglinde: TORCH HIM!17:29
SpeedEvilmust sign in17:29
mgedmincrap :(17:29
RST38hFrankly, I do not see the differewnce between lennart and the last two-three guys17:29
woglinderst I know he is somewhere around me in a circle of 30 km17:29
RST38hEvery single one of them starts with the same goals, creates another monstrosity, then quits17:29
RST38hwoglinde: Just imagine: if you had a relatively small nuclear weapon, you wouldn't even have to drive...17:30
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derfRST38h: I've met Lennart. I don't think he's going to quit.17:31
RST38hderf: He will, give him 2-3 years17:31
derfHe's already been doing this for 2-3 years.17:32
derfI first met him in early 2007.17:32
RST38h*another* 2-3 years, I mean...17:32
woglinderst he will not quit17:32
RST38hIf he doesn't though, it will be refreshing news17:33
woglindeand there are some more people17:33
* RST38h now remembers OSS audio, Arts, ESD, ALSA...17:33
RST38hForgot anything?17:34
SpeedEvilthat audio-over-x solution17:34
* SpeedEvil forgets the name.17:34
thuxot why laptops have this efi mode is it same than intel mac's has? is it any use to set it on if boot linux?17:34
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RST38hnetaudio was done by Sun right? for their thin computers?17:35
SpeedEvilRST38h: possibly - I'm unsure17:35
mgedminshould be public now17:35
mgedminovi sucks17:35
RST38hyou really had to try it to find that out?17:35
mgedminlennart is amazing17:35
mgedminso, what's wrong with the user interface here: ?17:36
mgedminicon on the ok button17:36
RST38htigert is definitely amazing, dunno about lennart17:36
mgedminalignment of the text inside the ok button17:36
mgedminlowercase title17:36
mgedminanything else?17:36
mihuI'm using the Maemo SDK 5. I did "apt-get update", then tried "apt-get build-dep gstreamer0.10". This results in "E: Build-Depends-Indep dependency for gstreamer0.10 cannot be satisfied because the package docbook-utils cannot be found". Did anyone ever had this problem?17:37
mgedminmaybe I should just find a link to the maemo 5 hig and put it in the bug17:37
mgedminmihu: I can confirm17:37
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mihumgedmin: And, how did you fix it? :-)17:38
mgedminI didn't17:39
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woglindecompile docbook-utils package from lenny or etch17:39
woglindeinstall it manually via dokg17:39
woglindeargs dpkg17:39
woglindethats what I would try17:40
mihuwoglinde: That will probably do the trick, but of course the question is where the official docbook-utils should usually comes from.17:43
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* mgedmin *loves* the Fremantle Master Layout Guide17:50
StskeepsVDVsx, penguinbait (& rest of council): some mail for you17:50
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penguinbaitnothing yet?17:51
Stskeepswill come, i hope :P17:52
penguinbaitfaster than a speeding email17:52
lcukmgedmin, where17:52
penguinbaitmore powerful than a n81017:52
mgedminlcuk: huh?17:52
penguinbaitable to get wifi in tall buildings17:53
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lcuk* mgedmin *loves* the Fremantle Master Layout Guide17:53
mgedminI love it right here, in my chair17:53
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mgedminor do you want a url?17:53
penguinbaitI feel like I am gonna url17:54
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* lcuk gets penguinbait a bucket17:54
penguinbaitfish bucket?17:55
RST38hurl url url?17:55
* tigert heads to wrench store for tools that dont break17:55
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* lcuk puts penguinbait in the bucket and walks to the enclosure17:55
andre__hmm. what to smoke to understand the difference between "Day view" and "Agenda view" in calendar?17:55
Stskeepsandre__: fish17:55
RST38htry last year's wall calendars17:55
penguinbaitandre, you were supposed to figure that out in amsterdam17:56
Jaffaandre__: Agenda view shows you several days17:56
RST38hground with a toadstool powder of course17:56
andre__penguinbait, i was too busy with cigarette breaks, didn't even attend my own talk17:56
* mgedmin is annoyed by lack of smooth scrolling in calendar month view17:56
* Jaffa too17:56
andre__Jaffa, thanks. need more test calendars it seems17:56
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hrwhmm. where I can edit my maemo profile? on it only shows, on I cannot edit website17:57
mgedmintry kinetic scrolling by pressing near the top/bottom and dragging -> you're unexpectedly jumped to a different month without an indication which, and end up confused17:57
mgedminhrw: login, view profile, use the floaty menu bar thingy-wingy and select page -> edit17:58
mgedminor something complicated like that17:58
* RST38h considers filing bug trackers about package voting interface17:58
pupnikty for lik17:58
hrwmgedmin: thx17:58
andre__ah, k17:58
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pupnikwow, 10 pixels per mm17:59
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* mgedmin wonders if he can add hildon api reference to devhelp18:02
lcukmgedmin, if it had smooth scrolling how would it work with the background pictures18:03
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lcukits not like mine where theres nice easy background18:03
mgedminwhat background pictures?18:03
lcukon the normal m5 calendar18:03
lcukeach month has a picture18:03
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mgedminoh, I hadn't noticed18:03
mgedmindunno, scroll the translucent calendar kinetically and cross-fade the right background picture18:04
mgedminor at least jump to the other month when I release my finger, not while I'm holding it18:05
mgedminum, actually it already does that18:05
mgedminno, it doesn't18:05
mgedminit jumps when I start dragging18:05
mgedminthat makes no sense at all18:05
mgedminhm, maybe it does18:05
lcukone of the views can be scrolled by grabbing the left hand side week view18:05
mgedmina completely different ui paradigm from the rest18:06
* lcuk nods18:06
mgedminfeels like mouse gestures18:06
lcukmaybe it is18:06
lcukand gestures lead to the dark side18:06
derfThey really do.18:06
mgedmin"calendaring software sucks" is a law of sw engineering18:06
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* lcuk has the calendar he always wanted 18:07
lcuknow i just need to learn how to make a recess into the wall, buy a touchscreen tablet, install software, learn how to sync properly18:07
* mgedmin wants to know how hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_buttons knows how many extra buttons the user supplied -- this is C! varargs have no clue how many args there were18:07
lcukand i can stop worrying18:07
derfmgedmin: NULL terminated list?18:08
mgedminor is there a bug in this example:
mgedminsomebody omitted the NULL?18:08
derfI don't know.18:08
lcukthat looks like a bug18:08
mgedminhildon_note_new_confirmation_add_buttons is actually a preprocessor macro that appends a , NULL at the end?18:08
pupnikmgedmin, do you think special apps like camera should break UI guidelinnes if needed?18:08
mgedminthat would be way too hacky18:08
mgedminpupnik: if they do it with style18:09
mgedmincalendar doesn't18:09
mgedmincalendar tries and fails18:09
lcuk... :  arguments pairs for new buttons(label and return value). Terminate the list with NULL value.18:09
pupnikcamera adjustments obscure screen conten / preview18:09
mgedminanother style-offending apps are pdf reader and notes (really?  maemo 4 style scroll bar?)18:09
mihumgedmin: "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" works in the package I try to recompile, even when "apt-get build-dep" failed before. Of course, after I manually installed all the really necessary packages like flex, lsb-release etc.18:09
derf"Terminate the list with NULL value."18:09
pupnikbut notes is necessarily in edit mode mgedmin18:10
mgedminlcuk: you were quoting what?18:10
lcukyou need a scrollbar if you are to allow selection and scorlling18:10
derfSo yeah, the example is likely wrong.18:10
pupnikwe have to split between twomodes, pan and hilight18:10
derfAnd "works" by pure luck.18:10
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lcukderf, its not pure luck18:10
derfBecause 0 is a pretty common thing to accidentally have on the stack.18:10
lcukmy memory is initialized to NULL before i start ;) :D18:10
mgedminah, interleaved irc conversations are confusing18:10
mgedminI see the link now18:10
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* mgedmin enables wiki powers and EDITS18:11
pupniki uploaded part of my connsciousness to the cloud.  the real pupnik is raking leaves18:11
mgedminaieee!  <span><font color="#FF0000"></font></span> are swarming me!18:11
lcukmgedmin, if you use kinetics (in the current gtk implementation) you can scroll, you cannot scroll OR select18:11
mgedminlcuk: browser solved that18:11
mgedminI want my cake and eat it too!18:11
lcukno it didnt18:11
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lcukthats a non trivial workaround that a user of notes would not expect18:12
lcuka scrollbar in the right environment is not wrong18:12
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mgedmincould've used a thumb scrollbar at least18:13
lcukon a browser, selection is not the normal operation18:13
lcukin a text editor, its vital18:13
mgedminI can't agree with you18:13
mgedminI kinda like how xterm did it: toolbar button toggles scrolling/selection18:14
RST38hmgedmin: PDF Reader does not seem to have changed since Maemo418:14
RST38hThey probably just haven't got to it18:14
mgedminyeah, peter hasn't recalled them from their summer vacations early enough18:15
mgedminpoor developers ...18:15
pupniki like xterms solution also mgedmin18:16
pupnikwish it were standard, actually18:17
pupnik"we can handle two states|18:17
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pupnik"simplify as much as posible, but no further|18:17
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mgedminI, for one, scroll much more than I select18:18
pupnikcan we has transparent buttons and scrolbars in theme or app?18:19
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mgedminbtw when I upgraded personal-ip-address to latest version, my statusbar applets crashed18:22
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fiferboy_mgedmin: Updated to 0.3-4?18:25
fiferboy_I don't think there is any way for a desktop widget to crash statusbar widgets18:26
mgedminthe desktop itself didn't crash18:26
fiferboy_What happens when the statusbar crashes?18:26
mgedminit reloads and you see icons reappearing one by one18:26
Stskeepsstatusbar shouldn't crash when widgets crash o_18:26
mgedminexcept for custom ones18:26
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mgedmincustom plugins get disabled18:26
fiferboy_There is no way to reload statusbar applets, that I know of18:26
Stskeepserr, desktop widgets18:26
mgedminrebooting restores the custom statusbar plugins18:27
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qwerty12_N810fiferboy_: Sure there is: killall hildon-status-menu18:27
mgedminI think it may have been a bug in, e.g., load-applet that was triggered somehow18:27
fiferboy_mgedmin: What custom statusbar plugins do you have installed?18:27
fiferboy_qwerty12_N810: That automatically restarts it as well?18:27
mgedmindunno how -- high system load?  out of disk space?  rebuilding gtk icon cache?  no clue18:27
mgedminI have three: brightness, load-applet, connectity-switcher18:28
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mgedminshould nuke the last one, it's useless18:28
qwerty12_N810fiferboy_: yes18:28
fiferboy_I have brightness and load-applet and never seen a statusbar crash18:28
fiferboy_qwerty12_N810: Good to know18:28
mgedminthanks, qwerty, killall hildonj-status-menu resurrected load-applet18:29
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mgedminnow I can (try to) take screenshots18:29
nnodwho can tell me how to optify a python program?18:29
mgedminload-applet please flash the blue LED when you take a screenshot!18:29
mgedminlack of feedback is ... is ... leaves me speechless18:30
nnodi have some text files (dictionaries) that i want to store under /opt/maemo/usr/share/dict18:30
lcukmgedmin, it should display some ui on the screen before it starts "Please wait, capturing screenshot"18:30
woglindennod did you already tried to use the optifier?18:30
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mgedminlcuk: it says to press the camera key within the next 20 seconds to actually take a screenshot18:31
mgedminso I press the camera key18:31
mgedminthen nothing appears to happen18:31
mgedminexcept that the camera app starts up and asks me to remove the lens cover18:31
nnodwoglinde: i figured it would be simpler just to change the installation script myself, since it's a very simple already18:31
qwerty12_N810Ctrl-Shift-P shortcut is more annoying in this regard18:31
lcukon n900 there is a keypress combo to take a screenshot anytime18:31
qwerty12_N810mgedmin: Ah, you don't need to fully press it in18:32
mgedminqwerty12_N810: seconded about ctrl+shift+p18:32
mgedminI'm trying to take a screenshot of a theme bug in a popup menu18:32
mgedminno luck whatsoever18:33
mgedminotoh maybe the screenshot is there but tracker sucks and hides it from me18:33
mgedminyou can get paranoid really fast this way18:33
mgedminbloody hell, it's both: tracker is hiding images from me AND the screenshot isn't there18:34
lcukdoes the pic viewer display images from the tracker cache, or from a filesystem scan?18:34
pupnika camera is more reliable18:35
mgedminis what I was talking about: ovi maps suggesting pois in the emirates18:35
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absolutecmon, just a short hike :)18:36
lcukmaybe a swim18:36
qwerty12_N810Yeah, mgedmin, Ovi Maps is right: Everyone has a private plane18:36
lcukat least you wouldv worked up an appetite18:36
absoluteI'll even give you some floaties to use18:37
mgedminyay load-applet screencast recorded a blank screen plus background audio18:37
* lcuk gets back to packaging18:37
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qwerty12_N810yerga has a post on Talk, somewhere, on how to get it working18:37
lcukahhh but was it background audio from a chinese restaurant 4000km away?18:38
jeremiahIts a loud restaurant18:38
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mgedminhm, if apt says libncurses5-dev is already installed in my sbox, why does kernel's make menuconfig complain about undefined references to waddch et al?18:41
GeneralAntilleslardman, stupid, stupid, stupid.18:41
qwerty12_N810mgedmin: Google "fanoush kconfig" and the first result has a fix, by fanoush18:42
GeneralAntillesandre__, sorry, my steps get a little imprecise when filing from a tablet. ;)18:42
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mgedminqwerty12_N810: the first hit is
andre__GeneralAntilles, hehe18:43
mgedminbut I found
qwerty12_N810mgedmin: I get a Talk forum page. But no matter, I can be arsed to open the browser:
qwerty12_N810That's the one18:44
GeneralAntillesOh, by the way, iGo chargers will charge the N900 fine with tip A97.18:44
mgedminis serious about EXTRAVERSION=-maemo2 ?18:45
wazdmoto has failed at the industrial design, time to show something from Nokia :)18:45
wazdMr. Mark Delaney - your turn :)18:48
pancaken900 kernel doesnt supports unionfs?18:48
* mgedmin can hear hrw's accent in his head when reading his blog posts18:48
hrwmgedmin: ;D18:49
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GeneralAntilleshrw, nice to see you around again, by the way. ;)18:51
mgedmin*whew*, I think it's the last time I'll be reading the various maemo bug jars18:51
mgedminI've been doing that since this *morning*18:52
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mgedmingranted, in the background, but still18:52
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mgedminouch, somebody left his n900 in the back of a taxi in Amsterdam :(18:53
greenflytime to start work on a lojack app18:53
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qwerty12_N810I imagine the person who found it will be in cahoots...18:53
darktearsis there anybody that know how to trigger the "expose" like effect on Maemo5 (is it a dbus call or a gtk method to call?)18:54
lcukdoesnt nokia already have a network ping whenever someone tries to use gps (supl) does this per chance send uid?18:54
GeneralAntillesEurgh, $370 for USA discount.18:54
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mgedminbetter than $448, isn't it?18:55
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GeneralAntillesmgedmin, better, but it's not much better than ~$550.18:55
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lcukits ~$180 better by my calculator18:55
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absolutediscount? as in the t-mo subsidies that are to come?18:56
Stskeeps370$? not bad18:56
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: so someone was complaining about font layout in MicroB when zooming18:56
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, that'd be me. ;)18:56
timeless_mbpthe explanation for that is that Gecko doesn't reflow for zooming18:56
timeless_mbpand tries to match font sizing without blowing away box layout18:56
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, it's basically made zooming a non-feature for me.18:56
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timeless_mbpso essentially the layout of the individual characters derives from the placement at the prezoomed page18:57
timeless_mbpif you install fennec, you should experience the same behavior18:57
GeneralAntillesAny plans to fix it?18:57
timeless_mbpthat's a vague overview of the technical problem18:57
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mgedminGeneralAntilles: do you know about the ctrl+shift+i hidden key?18:57
timeless_mbpfixing it would be done on the mozilla side18:57
GeneralAntillesIt's usability-killing behavior, honestly.18:57
timeless_mbpi'll try to poke someone about it this week, but i really don't have an answer18:57
timeless_mbpit's unlikely to make pr1.2 (1.1 doesn't get browser fixes in general, and 1.2 is probably closing soon)18:58
GeneralAntillesSo, upstream will fix it in, maybe, a couple months, then Nokia wont ship the updated Gecko until Harmattan, right? :)18:58
timeless_mbpsince it requires someone to fix it18:58
timeless_mbproughly :)18:58
jeremiahtimeless_mbp: pong18:58
* timeless_mbp shrugs18:58
ali1234you want gecko to reflow the page when you zoom, like the old version used to?18:59
GeneralAntillesThis is one of those bugs that will drive away every possible iPhone convert from the platform.18:59
ali1234did you ever actually try to use that?18:59
ali1234it doesn't work *at all*18:59
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timeless_mbpali1234: fwiw, what i want is to be able to tell the browser how wide it should tell the web page the screen is18:59
timeless_mbpso that i can influence how the page tries to lay out its content :)18:59
timeless_mbpbut sadly, trying to expose a ui for that is hard18:59
ali1234unless it's a fixed width page, like *all* websites are19:00
timeless_mbpi need to try to write a fennec addon for it to demo19:00
hrwGeneralAntilles: thx, nice to be remembered19:00
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darktearsis there any maemo development channel?19:04
timeless_mbpdarktears: there's this channel, and there's #mer19:04
timeless_mbpthose are about it19:04
mgedminon irc? no19:04
jeremiahdarktears: You're in it!19:04
AndrewFBlack2msg wazd you around19:04
* timeless_mbp sighs19:04
AndrewFBlack2stuppid /19:04
mgedmingrr what do I need to enable in kernel .config to get iptables_nat.ko?19:04
* timeless_mbp figures out bug source19:05
hrwI do not develop for maemo, I complain about it, report bugs and try to be enough annoying to be remembered19:05
* timeless_mbp needs to try to figure out how to do asynchronous ui work19:05
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wazdAndrewFBlack2: pong :)19:05
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AndrewFBlack2wazd, wasn't it you who made the image tha showed all the devices Mer will run on?19:06
guysoft42hi all, i created a kernel module, is there any nice way to package it?19:06
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ali1234mgedmin: iptables = netfilter19:07
wazdAndrewFBlack2: yep19:07
* ShadowJK likes to set minimum font size to something readable in teh first place :D19:07
ShadowJKlike 7pt19:07
mgedminthere's no NF_NAT in .config, I must first enable some prerequisite19:07
mgedmindoes NAT depend on CONNTRACK?19:07
ali1234almost certainly19:07
AndrewFBlack2can you send it to me I want to do a print out of it at FLS19:08
mgedminguysoft42: I'm about to have the same question, assuming I can manage to compile the darn module19:08
guysoft42mgedmin, i just did that phase, i can help you :)19:08
mgedminwhat module did you build?19:08
guysoft42mgedmin, but now i dono how to distrubute it19:08
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guysoft42mgedmin, ^19:08
mgedminscp *.ko my-n900: ;)19:08
ali1234mgedmin: there is a NF_NAT config19:09
guysoft42mgedmin, ah, i am on Nokia N81019:09
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mgedmin"IPv4 connection tracking support (required for NAT)"19:11
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guysoft42so thats it, everyone here will get a nokia N900. and i will be all alone and unsupported...19:13
guysoft42also, why all the docs in are not working?:
nnodnice, optify worked for my python package19:13
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guysoft42here, pick a doc, any doc, they all are broken:
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mgedminwikis rule19:15
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GeneralAntillesI really, really, really, hate trying to get things fixed this late in the development cycle.19:16
guysoft42um, is there an answer to this guy?:|||||||
guysoft42rg&ie=UTF-8&client=maemo-org&proxystylesheet=maemo-org&oe=ISO-8859-1 , Automatic Linux Kernel Module Loading on ITOS200819:16
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mgedminthat's not a clickable link19:17
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GeneralAntillesEvery time I start filing issues I run into a wall because Nokia has made all of these decisions 6, 8, 12 months ago and they're thoroughly entrenched in the conclusions they came to now.19:17
JaffaGeneralAntilles: yup19:17
GeneralAntillesSo there's basically no chance of getting anything fixed or improved.19:17
mgedminwhat's your favourite tinyurl clone?19:17
absoluteNo coral cache of that page either that you're looking for19:17
GeneralAntillesLogic and reason seem mostly to have abandoned them now.19:17
mgedminGeneralAntilles: there's a slim chance they will consider your input behind closed doors and implement it in Maemo x+119:17
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, right.19:18
greenflyGeneralAntilles: seems pretty logical to come up with a development plan and stick to it so you can get a release out on time19:18
GeneralAntillesBy which point a dozen other changes will have made this one obsolete.19:18
greenflyseems somewhat illogical to start changing those plans based on a bug report shortly before launch19:18
mgedminthat's a good thing, isn't it?19:18
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, not when those dozen other changes also suck. :(19:18
mgedminGeneralAntilles: drink more kool-aid!19:19
GeneralAntillesgreenfly, my point is that Nokia needs to open up and let us in on the development process.19:19
Jaffagreenfly: However, it'd be entirely logical for them to discuss the problems and issues in public long before they're set in stone. Free consultancy from paid software professional19:19
GeneralAntillesgreenfly, because clearly it's not working as-is.19:19
* mgedmin wonders which particular issue GA is talking about now19:19
mgedminbrowser zooming, or something new?19:19
greenflyI think it's still the font zooming one19:19
greenflywhich sounded like it was an upstream bug19:20
mgedminah, yes19:20
mgedminthat irritated me too19:20
GeneralAntillesjrocha's response to the key rebinding issue on -developers points to entrenchment, too.19:20
mgedminthen I convinced myself that it's a reasonable design decision19:20
mgedminkey rebinding: I read the responses as people trying to be helpful19:20
greenflyseems like a reasonable default to me as well19:21
mgedmin"I don't know how to solve the issue the way you want, but maybe you weren't aware of that other little possibility, and now knowing it maybe makes your life a bit easier?"19:21
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, mostly I saw "I can't imagine any reason anybody would even need to input text any differently than we've designed"19:21
mgedminhuman communication is a tricky and unsolved problem19:21
greenflyie. if I see autocompleted text and hit bksp I'd assume it would get rid of that text first, then I'd hit it again to start at my text19:21
greenflyin either case, I don't see how it would rate as "showstopper"19:22
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Guess what.19:22
GeneralAntillesgreenfly, well, once again, I've turned off autocomplete because it makes text entry more difficult.19:22
greenflyseems more like a matter of preference19:22
simulahas there been any word of a n900 ship date in the states?19:22
mgedminooh, that bug has new flamey comments I haven't seen before19:22
GeneralAntillesRather than making things easier like it should.19:22
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mgedminGA, what's your opinion on autocapitalization?19:22
GeneralAntilleszerojay, what?19:23
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ali1234autocomplete will *always* make text entry more difficult in the case where it doesn't correctly guess what you are typing19:23
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Something's gone wrong with my device discount. lol19:23
mgedminI never know if hitting shift will make the next letter uppercase or lowercase19:23
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, also useless, since it's completely unpredictable.19:23
ali1234that's why i turned it off and would do so regardless of this stupid backspace thing19:23
mgedminthere's no visual indication and the software (esp 3rd party) is inconsistent whether it enable sautocaps or not19:23
GeneralAntillesautocomplete I should be able to just ignore unless it's actually making my life easier.19:23
ali1234i turned off auto capitalise too19:23
GeneralAntillesWhich is why backspace should delete what I'm typing and not the autocomplete suggestion.19:23
GeneralAntilleszerojay, I would never have guessed!19:24
ali1234yes, i think you're right19:24
GeneralAntilleszerojay, what happened?19:24
ali1234but i'd still turn it off even if it worked like that19:24
zerojayGeneralAntilles: I just never received the e-mail. And it'll take probably a month before Quim decides to respond to me.19:24
zerojayGeneralAntilles: You know... going by past standards.19:25
mgedminBTW I'm +1 for a hidden gconf setting19:25
GeneralAntilleszerojay, lol.19:25
guysoft42absolute, yes, i got that by now. the thing is i need now a way to load the module on-boot19:25
qwerty12_N810zerojay: FWIW, I'm yet to recieve an e-mail, too.19:25
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, sadly those are seemingly no easier to get implemented than real UI settings.19:25
zerojayStarting to wonder if I was meant to get the discount at all.19:25
absolutemy bad, i thought you were still struggling to see the missing info... so i dug up a cached version of it for ya19:25
mgedminGeneralAntilles: I'm +100 for an open-source input engine that I or you could tweak to our heart's content19:25
javispedrowell, i got the invitation email at least.19:25
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zerojayShit, they gave me a device alongside the Fremantle stars even though I'm not a developer... so I gotta assume I SHOULD be getting a discount.19:26
mgedmininsmod: error inserting 'MyDocs/iptable_nat.ko': -1 Invalid module format19:26
mgedmin :/19:26
zerojayMakes me wonder if I didn't do enough or whatever19:26
javispedromaybe they're throttling the emails19:27
javispedroI got mine at late night, I remember posting here when I got it.19:27
mgedminzerojay: what's your karma?19:27
zerojayYeah, I'd probably wanna choke 'em out too.19:27
zerojaymgedmin: 800 something.19:27
darktears is there any way in maemo5 to programmatically call the task switcher (the expose thingy)? dbus? gtk?19:27
mgedminseems pretty clear-cut to me19:27
* mgedmin has to run19:28
mgedmindarktears: god I hope not19:28
mgedminokay, that was a bit of an overreaction19:28
mgedmindoing that at user's request is fine, apps doing that without my request would be very obnoxious19:28
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qwerty12_N810darktears: There's a d-bus call: google exit_app_view19:28
darktearsqwerty12_N810: thanks19:30
darktearsqwerty12_N810: i'll try that19:30
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ali1234interestingly i'm having difficulty even finding an autocomplete box on a desktop machine19:34
ali1234i'm sure they were all the rage a couple of years ago19:34
ali1234i'm beginning to think the only sensible thing to do is show a drop down box with suggestions19:35
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kr1shnakHi. Anyone here going to the "Off the Record" Ovi event on Monday 26th Oct?19:37
GeneralAntillesandre__, perhaps it's a matter of perception, but I'd call that civil. ;)19:40
hrwbye all19:40
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absolutehaha, my office neighbour is yelling really loudly in russian19:40
absolutehe sounds pissed19:40
andre__GeneralAntilles, I don't know. I wouldn't have a problem either, but I'm just afraid that in the long run it's counter-productive...19:40
absoluteoops, wrong chan19:40
GeneralAntillesandre__, it's a rather severe problem with our current arrangement than I keep running into every time there's a new release.19:41
GeneralAntillesIt's getting a bit tiresome after 4 years. :)19:41
andre__yes, we're all passionate :)19:41
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GeneralAntillesInvoking "vision" isn't a great way to go about convincing me that a particular design decision is a good one.19:42
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VDVsxX-Fade, ping19:43
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ali1234what does FKB stand for?19:46
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GeneralAntillesFinger keyboard.19:47
ali1234hmm ok, what is the finger keyboard?19:47
kr1shnakI'm guessing its the touch screen keyboard on the N80019:48
ali1234oh, the on screen keyboard19:48
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ali1234yeah, not having arrow keys on it is a pain in the arse, just like it was on the n80019:49
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GeneralAntillesFinger keyboard in Diablo, Virtual keyboard in Fremantle.19:49
wazd_guys, can you explain me how to add something to kernel parameters in ubuntu? :)19:50
ali1234wazd_: what version of ubuntu?19:50
wazd_ali1234: 9.0419:50
ali1234and is it the vdso thing?19:50
wazd_ali1234: yep19:50
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ali1234wazd_: look at /etc/sysctl.d/README19:52
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ali1234basically you make a file /etc/sysctl.d/50-vdso.conf and put the vdso option in it, then run the updater, that should do it19:52
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mgedmin900whoa, volume keys wswitch between tabs in xchat19:54
qwerty12_N810Yes, I shoved that in the crash-prone version...19:54
* lcuk sags19:55
penguinbaitquit slouching lcuk19:56
lcukim tired, applied for several jobs, fitted a carpet, did hand to hand combat with dpkg and wrestled the loo roll off the cat19:57
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aSIMULAturgood luck on the job apps lcuk19:59
aSIMULAturi have my fingers crossed for you :)19:59
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, hey, do you know how to get a module to load on startup?19:59
qwerty12_N810Nope, never had the need19:59
qwerty12_N810Look at the fuse package in extras, though20:00
mgedmin900echo modname >/etc/modules20:00
lcuk:) i have my fingers and toes crossed too20:00
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, ok20:00
angasuleWorkhmm, /etc/modules20:00
mgedmin900echo modname >/etc/modules20:00
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aSIMULAturyeah i'll cross my toes too20:00
mgedmin900echo modname >>/etc/modules20:00
wazd_damn, I got segfault again20:00
mgedmin900don't overwrite it like in my orig suggestion20:00
guysoft42mgedmin900, hmm, but i would need something that when installing the package wont have the line millons of times in there20:00
wazd_in SDK20:00
absolutehehe, yeah, don't want to forget the second >20:01
fiferboywazd_: Are you taking car of the mmap_min_address (or whatever it is called) too?20:01
mgedmin900enter is too close to the up arrow20:01
wazd_fiferboy: what? :)20:01
mgedmin900guysoft42, most modules get autoloaded20:01
aSIMULAturoh yeah did i ever introduce you guys to my friend absolute? he's one of my good irc friends from another server and he's a n900 convert20:01
aSIMULAtursoon to be convert20:01
wazd_fiferboy: /usr/bin/hildon-desktop: Fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server :2.0.20:01
wazd_fiferboy: that's what I get20:01
aSIMULAturbringing in the developers to the community :D20:01
guysoft42mgedmin900, but i need to know where to place it20:01
angasuleWorkabsolute: welcome, have you received your cloak and sacrificial rubber chicken?20:02
fiferboywazd_: You are in the X86 rootstrap?20:02
lcukmgedmin900, theres a place in helsinki that specializes in finger reconstruction, im sure they can make yours a little thinner20:02
wazd_fiferboy: english please :)20:02
absolutenot yet :)20:02
guysoft42mgedmin900, ok, if it works from there..20:02
lcukhi absolute \o20:02
wazd_fiferboy: I run scratchbox in VM ubuntu 9.0420:02
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fiferboywazd_: Is your prompt "sbox-FREMANTLE_X86"20:02
wazd_fiferboy: yeah20:02
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guysoft42qwerty12_N810, is there a source fuse package20:03
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qwerty12_N810In extras-devel, like I said20:04
fiferboywazd_: before starting scratchbox, "echo 4096 |sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_address"20:04
mgedmin900yep, got the crashy ver of xchat all right20:04
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mgedmin900qwerty12_N810, FIX IT PLEASE20:04
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mgedmin900the font size is killing my eyes20:05
wazd_fiferboy: no such file or directory20:06
fiferboywazd_: before starting scratchbox, "echo 4096 |sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr"20:06
wazd_fiferboy: done20:07
fiferboywazd_: Start up scratchbox and try again20:07
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wazd_fiferboy: Have to restart VM, adter that segfault SDK don't want to work20:07
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wazdfiferboy: wait a sec :)20:08
qwerty12_N810mgedmin900: Will do soon, I promise...20:09
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qwerty12_N810N900 not playing nice with my router isn't an incentive... :)20:09
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VDVsxqwerty12_N810, power saving issues ?20:10
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: I've turned PSM off but I still get messed around...20:11
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: i've encountered really odd behaviour caused by corrupt DNS answers on my router20:11
wazd_fiferboy: no, fault again20:12
penguinbaitlike what20:12
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Hmm, I have been playing with them a little, will look, thanks20:12
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fiferboywazd_: When is the fault happening?  When loading scratchbox?  Trying to start the gui?20:12
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, humm, brand ?20:12
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: An über shitty Thomson Speedtouch20:12
wazd_fiferboy: I open up mail, see wizard, press next, try to focus in the field20:13
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wazd_fiferboy: then it crashes20:13
wazd_fiferboy: and the worst thing that I have to restart Ubuntu to get it work again20:13
fiferboywazd_: Ah, that is a Xephyr problem with ubuntu20:13
fiferboyThere is a patch somewhere.  I recompiled Xephyr for my system to get it to work20:13
mgedmin900the tiny load applet is pretty20:13
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, I had one of those :)20:14
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aSIMULAturanyone live in germany?20:14
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: Since you say "had", I presume your experience with one was not the best of them either?20:14
fiferboywazd_: I will send you my patched binaries :)20:14
aSIMULAturyeah i might need some help finding something on the t mobile site20:14
aSIMULAturmy husband's internet connection still hasn't been connected and he's ticked off20:14
wazd_fiferboy: that would be nice :)20:15
fiferboywazd_: Unless you want to compile some yourself... ;)20:15
wazd_fiferboy: sure! :D20:15
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, actually was good, but I got a new one from my ISP so I gave the thomson to a friend20:15
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VDVsxqwerty12_N810, never tried with the n900, but worked well with the n810 :)20:16
fiferboywazd_: I will send you the 30 step instructions, hang on a sec20:16
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: What?! Man, I feel sorry for your friend :/20:16
wazd_fiferboy: 30?!20:16
wazd_fiferboy: oh my :D20:16
fiferboywazd_: Just kidding.  You'll have an email in a few minutes20:16
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, he's a happy windows user, so np ;)20:16
qwerty12_N810I was about to make a remark but then I looked up at my monitor :(20:17
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, ping20:21
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GeneralAntillesVDVsx, hrm?20:22
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, do you know who is the responsible for this page:
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, not offhand.20:23
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, dneary or qgil should know, though.20:23
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, ok, gonna ask, thanks :)20:24
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crashanddieVDVsx, drop an email to jobs@maemo.org20:25
crashanddieVDVsx, and see who replies20:25
VDVsxcrashanddie, hehe, might work, I'll ask in the ML20:26
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* GeneralAntilles rarely gets replies from those Nokia-owned addresses.20:27
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GeneralAntillesAnybody get a response from Forum Nokia yet?20:27
crashanddieForum Nokia?20:28
GeneralAntillesAbout the discount codes.20:29
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crashanddiediscount codes?20:29
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* crashanddie crawls back into his cave20:29
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, the email Quim sent out on Friday.20:29
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, didn't get an email from Quim on Friday20:30
GeneralAntillesAh, 139.20:30
GeneralAntillesWell, it went out to everybody with karma >200.20:30
GeneralAntilles~€300 devices20:31
crashanddieah, discount? Dun't care 'bout dat :P20:31
VDVsxcrashanddie, at ML, grab "your company" from the profile page, is your suggestion ?20:31
crashanddieVDVsx, and "availability", if possible20:32
crashanddiewell, I guess not20:32
crashanddiebecause being on that page implies you're available to discuss about it20:32
VDVsxcrashanddie, yeah, agreed20:32
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, it's funny though... At the summit, not a couple of hours went by without me meeting someone and have them going "Who are you? Oh, crashanddie, you"20:33
crashanddieyet again, no matter which karma stuff we talk about, I'm never qualified, and I keep proving that it's not quantity that's important20:34
Stskeeps139 is getting there though20:34
crashanddieI've slipped a bit on tmo20:34
* RST38h moos at the moon20:34
lcukam i the only maemo professional :S20:34
crashanddieno, you're without a job20:34
crashanddieor are you?20:34
GeneralAntillesWe should have IRC karma.20:34
GeneralAntillesSomebody just needs to write the code. . . .20:35
RST38hYesss, yesssss20:35
RST38hYess, my precioussss20:35
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I heard some people talk about it at the summit20:35
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, and being discarded very, very quickly20:35
crashanddiealong the lines of "IRC is just noise"20:35
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, dneary's the only person I know to be against it.20:35
GeneralAntillesMost of the people with keys to the karma car seem to be for it. ;)20:36
GeneralAntillesSo I don't really see any issues.20:36
RST38hon which grounds, out of academic curioristy?20:36
crashanddiewell, he's a good convincer :P20:36
crashanddieRST38h, spam, idle, useless20:36
GeneralAntillesIRC is the place where I've accomplished the most.20:36
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, agreed20:36
GeneralAntillesIt's what got me involved with Maemo in the first place.20:36
crashanddielcuk, you had the code, didn't you?20:36
ali1234t.m.o isn't just noise?20:36
ali1234news to me20:36
lcukwhich code20:37
GeneralAntillesI can't even recall half the stuff I've made happen with IRC. ;)20:37
crashanddielcuk, that made stats about the people talking on #maemo20:37
lcukand btw, the term is not "without a job"  its freelance isnt it20:37
crashanddielcuk, heheh :P20:37
GeneralAntillesA lot of them happened after failed attempts to make things happen on the mailing lists and Talk.20:37
lcukhows your job hunting going?20:37
crashanddielcuk, "self-employed"20:37
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I think the problem would come from the amount of data there is to process20:38
StskeepsIRC karma could work if you did it on basis on relationship discussions20:38
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, how is the karma currently being accounted for? Every night a script runs and looks at every bit of information?20:38
lcuki pointed mgedmin900 towards the irc stats generator20:38
Stskeepslike, <X> Y: something, <X> Y, something20:38
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, or is it resumed from the day before?20:38
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lcukif he managed to get the script running on the historical logs20:38
VDVsxlooking for opportunities around Maemo ? join:   ;)20:38
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, ugh.20:38
lcukwe would have a page soon20:38
VDVsxcoders/designers/advocates ^20:38
* mgedmin900 sighs20:38
crashanddieStskeeps, people don't necessarily use the nickname when they talk20:39
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, so you'd have to match GAN, GA, Gen, General, GeneralAntilles, GAN800, GAN900, GAN8001 for me? :P20:39
crashanddieEspecially when they continue their previous sentence20:39
mgedmin900you people never stop talking when I'm not paying attention20:39
lcuklol mgedmin90020:39
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mgedmin900catching up with irc logs is a full-time job20:39
ali1234GeneralAntilles: nope, because services can do that for you20:39
lcukmgedmin900, you have a bot to do it for you :P20:39
GeneralAntillesali1234, erm, match every shorthand version of my nick that people use? :)20:40
crashanddieand typos?20:40
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: same problem as with seen bots20:40
GeneralAntillesEasier to just lower the total karma reward and do it by lines.20:40
lcukGeneralAntilles, the problem with your thing is doesnt allow swear words20:40
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, 0.01 karma per line20:40
Stskeepssqrt(lines) could work20:40
ali1234GeneralAntilles: dont need to match all the nicks you use if you register them all20:41
crashanddieali1234, stop being obtuse20:41
GeneralAntillesali1234, less than half of those are "nicks I use"20:41
crashanddieali1234, half the time, people on NITs say "GA" instead of GeneralAntilles (rightfully so), same here, people say "crash" or get the spelling wrong20:41
GeneralAntillesThey're shorthand abbreviations other people call me by.20:41
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crashanddieand I doubt either GA or "crash" are available for registration20:42
lcukoh shite - if you use "crash" seb you will have most lines20:42
GeneralAntillesSo, no, Freenode services don't help with that. :)20:42
mgedmin900wait, lcuk if I set up irc stats I may get karma???20:42
ali1234and that matters because?20:42
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RST38hHigh karma should let you kick and ban people.20:42
RST38hOtherwise it is no fun20:42
lcukjust a little lol20:42
GeneralAntillesRST38h, WORKSFORME20:42
RST38hSuper high karma should let you take over the channel20:42
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles20:42
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -o GeneralAntilles20:42
RST38hTo a different degree of course20:42
RST38hLike, Quim should be able ot take over the channel and kick everyone off at any time20:42
GeneralAntillesJealous. *g*20:42
lcukmgedmin900, he has the power to remove you from the chan.  you have the power to remove him from all of irc history.20:43
RST38hGeneral should only be allowed to do it from 3:00am to 5:00am Florida time20:43
crashanddieali1234, so basically, your algorithm would be what exactly? [begin line][word][comma], -> match [word] against nickserv database, -> get account name, -> lookup account name against users, -> add karma?20:43
GeneralAntillesExcellent, during peak European communication hours!20:43
RST38hlcuk should only be able to take over on every second wednesday of any month that contains 30 days20:43
* GeneralAntilles writes some scripts.20:43
lcuki dont want control of irc20:44
lcuki have my own chan20:44
lcukand im not even op20:44
crashanddiethus, you don't have your own chan20:44
RST38hand, just to make sure penguinbait stays persuaded of conspiracy against him, only allow him to take over on Feb 2920:44
lcukgood point20:44
crashanddieyou are *in* a chan, without owning it20:44
lcukit has a mind of its own20:44
crashanddieit has it's own postcode20:44
infobotcrashanddie meant: it has its own postcode20:44
crashanddieRST38h, I have a friend who was born on the 29th20:45
crashanddieRST38h, technically speaking, he's 5 years old20:45
RST38hcrashanddie: so what does he do?20:45
ali1234crashanddie: sure, why not?20:45
RST38hWill he live until 320?20:45
crashanddieali1234, right, you're not a programmer, are you?20:45
ali1234crashanddie: yes, i am20:45
crashanddieoh boy, what's your name? So I put it on my people-to-avoid-working-with20:46
lcukVDVsx, put yourself on the list20:46
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lcuksince you made it :P20:46
RST38hThe number of poeple who think Google is evil is currently 66.6%20:46
ali1234crashanddie: don't need to worry about that20:46
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RST38hHow fitting20:46
lcukand crashanddie you have enough to say on the ML about helping - add yourself20:46
crashanddielcuk, eh?20:46
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ali1234crashanddie: i can see you're not a programmer. apparently you have never heard of a hash table?20:46
VDVsxlcuk, later ;)20:47
* lcuk removes himself cos it looks just daft20:47
crashanddieali1234, hang on, are you a software architect?20:47
mgedmin900is there a Maemo dilettantes list?20:47
crashanddielcuk, I have a hard time convincing myself to write my name on the list20:48
RST38hit is called t.m.o20:48
crashanddieRST38h, or -users20:48
crashanddielcuk, well, what if my employer finds this list?20:48
VDVsxlcuk, as you said, someone has to be the first ;)20:48
RST38hcrashanddie: Just call yourself The Master of Universe. Make sure it is what you have on your CV as well20:48
* lcuk finds it odd to be first at some things and last at others20:48
crashanddielcuk, and considering they're currently investigating maemo, there's a chance they could find it (by mistake or dumb luck)20:48
lcukits a list of professionals20:49
lcuksay "happy in job"20:49
lcukif you are20:49
crashanddiewell, "looking for: job" doesn't sound too good20:49
lcukits just about community help20:49
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crashanddieI'm hardly a maemo professional20:49
lcukits about making yourself known in the community isnt it - if people need security related advice20:49
lcukwouldnt you rather they came to you and your firm20:50
crashanddieunless professional bitching is an acceptable criterion20:50
crashanddiethey can hire me :P20:50
lcukwe are making this list20:51
crashanddieali1234, anyway, getting back to the initial subject: no need to over-engineer and over-complicate things, GA is right in the fact that simply lowering the value of each sentence makes more sense than having a CPU crunch useless numbers for something as useless as karma20:52
lcukjust see what the stats come out with20:52
lcukand then gain a reasonable metric based on those20:52
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crashanddieali1234, is already quite low on power as it is, and I'm feeling that the influx of users we're going to get with the marketing campaigns of the n900 isn't going to lower that, and I can't but think that doing nickname matching is going to be very expensive in terms of cpu hours20:52
lcukno point in coming up with an algo which may make a few people skyrocket20:52
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ali1234crashanddie: what is it running on, a z80?20:54
mgedmin900karma isn't useless, apparently...20:54
crashanddieali1234, a 770 :P20:54
mgedmin900ali1234, a 77020:54
lcukthey upgraded the 770 didnt they20:54
GeneralAntillesHopefully tekojo's going to get us more servers soon. :\20:54
GeneralAntillesWe REALLY don't need a repeated of November 2007.20:55
lcuki heard rumours about 32x moar power20:55
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, oh man that was god awful20:55
lcukGeneralAntilles, december20:55
crashanddieaverage of 25 refreshes to get a wiki page20:55
lcukso it was YOU!20:55
lcuk30 tabs and lots of F5 action20:55
crashanddieI was just trying to read stuff20:55
GeneralAntillesIt's shit like that that'll kill this platform.20:55
zerojayNovember 2007. Nevar forget.20:55
ali1234if you're doing a full text search on nicks, that's going to be expensive. but i can't possibly think why you would want to do that20:55
crashanddielcuk, RTA firefox plugin20:55
crashanddielcuk, ctrl + f5 refreshes all tabs20:56
lcuklol zerojay20:56
ali1234if otoh, you're just matching that start of each line, that's cheap20:56
ali1234and that tells you who said what, if a) they register, and b) they put that info on t.m.o20:56
crashanddiewell, you pay for the dedi :)20:56
zerojayali1234: You'll get 2 karma for it.20:57
mgedmin900should lots of irc participation increase the karma or decrease it?20:57
ali1234considering you don't even need to process it in real time20:57
Stskeepsmgedmin900: facilitation should earn karma20:57
ali1234and at most this place has about 10 lines per minute20:58
javispedrodon't we have infobot to handle that? :P20:58
zerojayWhy would participating in IRC LOWER karma?20:58
mgedmin900sts, what about wasting other people's time?20:58
javispedro~karma infobot20:58
infobotinfobot has karma of 320:58
GeneralAntilles~karma zerojay20:58
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infobotzerojay has karma of 220:58
crashanddie~karma zer0mdq20:58
infobotzer0mdq has neutral karma20:58
crashanddiethere you go20:58
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crashanddiekarma problem sorted20:58
crashanddie~karma crashanddie20:59
infobotcrashanddie has karma of -220:59
crashanddiebloody hell20:59
crashanddieStskeeps, found a way to stay under 200 :D21:00
Stskeepscrashanddie: posting goatse over and over again on
crashanddieno, ~crashanddie--21:00
javispedrothat would get you karma.21:00
wazdfiferboy: looks like that helped, ta!21:00
javispedroI mean, poasting goatse.21:00
javispedroat least in the new tmo21:00
RST38hheya wazd21:01
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I think an issue like that would be solved at the administrative level. ;)21:01
RST38hjavis: behemoatse!21:01
fiferboywazd: :D21:01
crashanddiegoatse gives a whole new meaning to "Open Source"21:02
wazdRST38h: heya21:02
wazdfiferboy: next problem - App Manager can\rquote t install anything21:02
Stskeepsi still kinda dig the idea of giving out karma21:02
Stskeepsto others21:02
fiferboywazd: There is a special package for that, hang on21:03
Stskeepsthat would balance the areas that doesn't get automatic karma gathering21:03
* RST38h did it21:03
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* mgedmin900 is *not* clicking on that21:03
qwerty12_N810wazd: fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot, enable red pill mode and turn on assume internet connection21:03
* Stskeeps would give wazd plenty of karma21:03
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Original is still better =)21:04
RST38hthen you will never know the TRUTH!21:04
eeananyone got the n900 to share its 3g connection21:04
mgedmin900eean kinda21:04
RST38hqwerty: Original hippo?21:04
mgedmin900eean see my mail to maemo-users@21:04
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Nah, original goatse of course!21:04
eeancool thanks21:05
wazdqwerty12_N810: can\rquote t see xterm :(21:05
wazdqwerty12_N810: eeek21:05
mgedmin900socks proxy ain't really connection sharing...21:05
RST38hqwerty: Not weird enough =)21:05
eeanwhoa this chan got big :P21:05
javispedro"fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot" sounds funny.21:06
wazdStskeeps: for what? :)21:06
javispedroftr, it's fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot-net21:06
Stskeepswazd: for your efforts21:06
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Ah, thanks. But it still goes for -net either way :p21:06
javispedroah, then why the thanks.  ;P21:07
* mgedmin900 remembers wazd for posting pretty pictures and complaining about nit availability in .ru21:07
qwerty12_N810RST38h: I wasn't exactly feeling the weirdness factor with your pic either :)21:07
qwerty12_N810Quake 3 has a nice goatse21:07
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zerojaywtf did I stumble into here?21:07
ali1234"nice" "goatse"?21:07
crashanddielcuk, added21:08
wazdStskeeps: I do it for fun, not karma :D21:08
eeanmgedmin900 I have october open, whats the subject?21:08
mgedmin900that's the way to do it21:08
* GeneralAntilles has 3 iPhone converts now.21:08
RST38hqwerty: Ok. You see wooden statues of anally expanded hippos every day.21:08
mgedmin900eean something about internet connection sharing21:08
RST38hqwerty: Anything with tentacles in immediate vicinity of those?21:08
wazdqwerty12_N810: where\rquote s xterm in sdk? :)21:09
wazdqwerty12_N810: what the hell with \lquote21:09
eeanfound it21:09
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Meh, it's wooden, that's the thing21:09
mgedmin900wait or was it rst who's always complaining about nit availability in .ru?21:09
* mgedmin900 needs a memory upgrade21:09
* RST38h gets nits from the US21:10
qwerty12_N810wazd: Use a terminal with scratchbox running21:10
mgedmin900for his brain21:10
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RST38hBut, mgedmin, you have got all this logged21:10
lcukexcellent crashanddie :D21:10
qwerty12_N810wazd: osso-xterm in the SDK is pure suckage21:10
mgedmin900rst, I'm not google, finding things in logs is hard21:10
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RST38heither try harder or forget it then =)21:11
* javispedro glances at a totally unparenthesized C expression mixing +, -, >>, &, | and * operators 21:11
lcukjavispedro, paste or it didnt happen21:12
javispedrowhy, I did it myself :(21:12
zashjavispedro: run it throug a rexeg compiler and see what happens!21:12
lcuklol javispedro21:12
lcukso we can laugh of course21:12
javispedroactually, do you know something that would output an AST or RPN?21:12
mgedmin900an experienced c programmer?21:13
mgedmin900my bus is here21:13
* javispedro goes look for operators priority list21:13
zerojayHis bus is here, folks.21:13
zerojaymgedmin900 has left the building. :)21:13
RST38hHe is going going gone21:14
mgedmin900hey 3g rules21:14
zerojayWish I could say the same thing. I'm only able to do 2G or 2.5G. :/21:14
lcuk2g is just the same for irc surely21:14
lcukeven 1g was21:14
javispedrostack overflow to the rescue:
mgedmin900how many gs do you need for irc?21:14
RST38h1g would be AMPS21:15
zerojayYou don't need 3g for IRC. Just having 3G in general to use on the device WOULD be nice.21:15
wazdqwerty12_N810: cool, that helped :)21:15
qwerty12_N810Nice :)21:16
eeanmgedmin900: i wonder if the pc suite does tcp/ip over usb for the ovi stuff then21:16
mgedmin900eean when you figure it out tell me21:16
mgedmin900iirc the docs said it would use the n900 as a modem21:16
eeanmgedmin900 but why, why can't we get some iptables :D21:17
mgedmin900and that apps on the n900 would not be able to be online during that time21:17
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I can't help but smile at last week's episode title of House... "Instant Karma"21:17
luke-jreean: just build your own kernel?21:17
mgedmin900eean I want iptables badly21:17
mgedmin900was trying to build the kernel module today21:17
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, lol.21:17
eeanluke-jr pretty sue theres a bunch of binary drivers21:18
eeanopen source FTL21:18
mgedmin900maemo wiki has a page about kernel builds21:18
eeanmgedmin900 how did it go21:18
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mgedmin900not well21:19
luke-jreean: that would be illegal21:19
luke-jreean: threaten to sue if so ;)21:19
mgedmin900I ignored half the instructions, knowing better21:19
mgedmin900the resulting .ko failed to load21:19
eeanluke-jr legally grey :)21:19
luke-jreean: not grey21:19
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javispedroone week less for the gles drivers!21:19
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lcukthen what21:20
* GeneralAntilles hopes they're ready for FLS21:20
javispedroI install them.21:20
* Stskeeps has no idea if he'll be able to integrate them in time for FLS though.21:20
infobotLibrary catalog/circulation system. URL:
wazdqwerty12_N810: but I still can\rquote t install app from downloaded deb :)21:20
GeneralAntillesFlorida Linux Show21:20
qwerty12_N810wazd: I just use dpkg for debs I download21:21
mgedmin900wazd why you talking in rtf?21:21
wazdmgedmin900: dunno :D21:21
Stskeepsmgedmin900: hah21:21
absolutedpkg -i file.deb doesn't work?21:21
absolutemaybe even force it21:22
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mgedmin900location widget rules21:24
mgedmin900my stop next21:24
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eeanluke-jr eg
ubu_wazddon't get it21:26
paulo_ouriquesHey plp21:27
Stskeepseean: no closed modules in maemo5, afaik21:27
ubu_wazdI access ubuntu FS from scratchbox21:27
ubu_wazdhow can I access Documents folder in SDK?21:27
luke-jreean: ?21:27
Stskeeps /home/yourusername/.documents?21:27
javispedroMyDocs! MyDocs!!21:28
RST38huhu_wazd: ~user/.documents ?21:28
mgedmin900home sweet temporary home21:28
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javispedro/home/user/MyDocs/.documents if you followed sdk instructions21:28
javispedro(and thus /home/user is a symling  to ~)21:28
ubu_wazddatabase area is locked21:29
javispedromgedmin900: yep. pardon my er... martian english.21:29
* qwerty12_N810 remembers symlinking ~ to /home/user even in the Beta2 SDK... Too much hardcoding :-)21:29
mgedmin900are you sharing your sbox home and your non-sbox homes?21:30
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mgedmin900aah, now I get it21:30
eeanstskeeps really? should be able to build a new kern no problem then21:30
paulo_ouriquesid like to know if the hildon-application-manager have an open source code.21:30
Stskeepseean: yes21:30
Stskeepspaulo_ouriques: it does, it's on maemo.gitorious.org21:31
eeanmgedmin900 do you know if the wireless supports sharing a p2p21:32
* mgedmin900 will likely soon lose 3g and 2g coverage21:32
mgedmin900eean, I failed adhoc wifi21:32
eeani guess it'd have to21:32
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absoluteyeah, from what i read, hildon has been committed back to gnome now too21:32
eeanhmm what happened21:32
mgedmin900one problem is how to connect to adhoc wifi without disconnecting 3g?21:32
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eeanuse cli tools i guess21:33
mgedmin900maemo 5 ui allows only 1 connection active21:33
mgedmin900wireless-tools is ported?21:33
eeanprobably not :)21:33
paulo_ouriquesand id like to know how this application get informations about installed applications.21:33
mgedmin900I haven't found them yet21:33
mgedmin900ah there they are21:34
eeanwonder how the ui does it21:34
eeanmight be dbus21:34
mgedmin900I didn't have the right repo21:34
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eeancool :D21:35
paulo_ouriquesand id like to know how hildon-application-manager get informations about installed applications.21:35
eeanpaulo my guess is the standard linux desktop way, but i dunno21:35
absolutedisclaimer, i don't have a device in hand, but isn't that just a frontend for apt or dpkg of some sort?21:35
eeanum oops :D21:36
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eeanoh wait yes21:36
* mgedmin900 wonders if he's still online21:36
absoluteHildon Application Manager is the Hildon graphical package manager, it uses the Debian package management tools (APT and dpkg) and provides a graphical interface for installing, updating and removing packages. It is a limited package manager, designed specifically for end-users, in that it doesn't directly offer the user access to system files and libraries.[5] With the Diablo release of Maemo, Hildon Application Manager now supports21:36
eeanthought he was talking about the app launcher21:37
eeanits just standard deb stuff paulo21:37
eeanyou are mgedmin90021:37
kynkyn900 for £360 is worth it, surely :)21:37
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javispedrono! it does not have mms!21:38
javispedronor java!21:38
mgedmin900what's a good way to pick a frequency for fm transmitter?21:38
ShapeshifterI was overjoyed when I noticed it didn't have java :)21:38
javispedroI like how the issue is already reffered as "MMS & Java"21:38
eeanmms is frakin lame... use email :D21:38
qwerty12_N810No Java should raise the price up...21:38
absoluteYou were overjoyed about a missing language?21:39
crashanddieok, need to repair the audio jack on laptop, bbl21:39
GeneralAntillesmgedmin900, tune until you find an empty station, then pick that.21:39
javispedroShapeshifter: be happy then! S60 Java Runtime may be coming!21:39
GeneralAntillesmgedmin900, don't plug in USB, though, or you'll never be able to use the FM transmitter again. :roll:21:39
fralsyey, took a powernap and mms nerds have posted in the mms support thread, awesome \o/21:39
suihkulokkiI'm sure people will use share on facebook/ovi/flickr feature on n900 more than they used mms on their previous phones =)21:39
mgedmin900there are no empty stations21:39
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GeneralAntillesmgedmin900, how are you tuning?21:39
RST38hjavis: really?21:39
GeneralAntillesmgedmin900, seeking?21:39
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absoluteI understand why java wouldn't be a priority, but i was kinda hoping for some support down the line... i've got a PBX configuration app that's a jar21:40
mgedmin900there are stations that broadcast static21:40
javispedroRST38h: of course not. >:)21:40
GeneralAntillesmgedmin900, that's empty.21:40
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* mgedmin900 is rotating this big knob thingy21:40
paulo_ouriquesok, thanks a lot.21:40
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Solarionabsolute: then close it!21:41
GeneralAntillesmgedmin900, if your stereo indicates whether a station is strong enough to get stereo that's usually a good sign.21:41
* Solarion slaps his knee and guffaws21:41
eeani wonder if we could convince fmradio to tune digital stations21:42
eeanhow complicated can implementing digital radio in gstreamer be right? :D21:42
zerojayI want to implement chiptunes support into Media Player.21:43
darktearsqwerty12_N810: ping21:43
qwerty12_N810darktears: Yep?21:43
eeanwhats chiptunes21:43
mgedmin900when media player drops connection to a radio station due to temporary network problems, it tunes to the next station21:44
mgedmin900this irritates me21:44
darktearsqwerty12_N810: i tried the signal, but according to my inspection interface doesn't exist21:44
zerojayeean: Basically old game/console music. They are played through an emulator for the sound chip of that console/computer.21:44
zerojayeean: So.. think C64 SIDs, NES, SNES...21:44
darktearsqwerty12_N810: i found one but there is no such exit_app_view call possible21:45
eeanah fun21:45
javispedrospc player!21:45
lcukVDVsx, did that mail get into your inbox21:45
zerojayjavispedro: You got it.21:45
lcukdont expect an answer about its contents, just to know i sent it right21:45
darktearsis there any docs about dbus interfaces?21:45
qwerty12_N810darktears: Hmm, let me check on the N90021:45
javispedroactually, someone already made a spc gst element21:45
VDVsxlcuk, yup21:45
darktearsqwerty12_N810: thanks :D21:45
lcukk :)21:45
javispedroand I made a vgmstreamer gstreamer element for streamed music21:45
darktearsqwerty12_N810: any docs where dbus interfaces are documented?21:45
zerojayjavispedro: Yeah, there's a lot of elements for what we need already in gstreamer. Just a matter of getting Media Player to play nice.21:45
zerojayI think.21:46
qwerty12_N810darktears: Haven't a clue. Sorry21:46
darktearsqwerty12_N810: thanks anyway21:46
darktearsso bad that there is no way to find docs about those interfaces21:47
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qwerty12_N810hildon-desktop is open source, fwiw21:47
mgedmin900is hildon-desktop the window manager?21:48
qwerty12_N810matchbox2 is21:48
mgedmin900or just the bit that draws the desktop?21:48
lcukthe ui components ontop of the window manager21:48
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lcukholy moly!21:50
qwerty12_N810You can't say that and leave us hanging21:51
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zerojayholy shit!21:51
lcuki just ran stats on #maemo from my incomplete logs21:52
wirelessdreamerAnyone here been to Nokia Flagship Chicao? they're EVIL . . . called and asked if they had an n900 demo unit in stock, they said yes . . . Drove down there Yesterday, only to be told we haven't updated the software lately, so we won't let you play with it untill we pull the battery and you can then touch its lifeless shell21:52
lcuklcuk spoke a total of 634075 words!21:52
lcuklcuk's faithful follower, johnx, didn't speak so much: 375052 words.21:52
mgedmin900fm transmitter sucks unless I put the n900 right next to the radio21:52
mgedmin9001.5 meters and the noise is bad21:52
mgedmin900okay, /me logs off21:52
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zerojayAh yes... yet another great pic of a burger coming to the Maemo EATS! flickr group soon. ;21:52
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eeandamn in the US the digital radio is all closed standards21:53
wirelessdreamereean: use a2dp and get a bluetooth deck in the car21:53
derfIs there somewhere where it's _not_ closed standards?21:53
derfWhat do they use there?21:53
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suihkulokkieffectively they stream mp3's over air21:54
lcuksorry for missing template images and things i dont know what im doing21:54
lcukbut it offers a glimpse21:54
derfOkay, so replace "closed" by "patented".21:55
eeanwirelessdreamer: huh?21:55
dmj7261I wonder how many emails 2DBoy got via my thread this morning.21:55
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eeanderf software patents don't exist in europe21:55
lcukGeneralAntilles, you loud mouth!21:55
derfeean: Hahahha.21:56
derfTell yourself whatever you want.21:56
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eeanwell you can go on obeying patents that don't exist :P21:56
GeneralAntilleslcuk, what?21:56
dmj7261Patent's are ickey.21:56
derfeean: You realize Franuhofer is a German company, right?21:57
derfSoftware patents most _definitely_ exist in Europe. They're just not called software patents.21:57
dmj7261derf: really?21:57
absoluteI can understand copyright to an extent, but i'm not a patent fan at all21:57
dmj7261I thought it was just us americans who were that stupid.21:58
GeneralAntillesPatents would be fine if they were reasonable.21:58
GeneralAntillesJust like copyright would be fine if it were reasonable.21:58
GeneralAntillesBoth encourage creativity and innovation.21:58
zashabsolute: I'm more like the reverse21:58
eeanfranuhofer has a US patent21:58
derfEven better, if they can't get something through the European patent system, they just refuse to license the US patents to people unless they also agree to pay licensing fees for any other locale where they want to distribute the product.21:58
GeneralAntillesWhile benefiting the public in the long term.21:58
absoluteeven copyright is really screwed up to an extent though, i agree21:58
derfSo unless you want to completely exclude the US market, you still have to pay patent licensing fees in Europe for US patents.21:58
lcuknahhh they dont21:58
* lcuk is antipatent21:59
dmj7261How about 6 month software patents?21:59
dmj7261I would be fine with those.21:59
lcukdmj7261, if they were free to get and easy to search without complication i would agree21:59
dmj7261...there would be little point in getting one though21:59
GeneralAntilleslcuk, then where's anybody's incentive to innovate?21:59
absolute"you made something a little too close to something this company made, now you owe them money"21:59
RST38hit takes 6-24 months just to get us patent21:59
dmj7261By the time you could implement something, it would already be usable22:00
lcukGeneralAntilles, im innovating22:00
eeanderf you have to pay them for your stuff you sell to the us22:00
lcukim doing stuff that hasnt been done before22:00
eeanthat's different then payong them in europe22:00
GeneralAntilleslcuk, why would I, as a private citizen, waste my time and money inventing something if as soon as I release it some Chinese manufacturer comes out with nearly the same product for half the price?22:00
derfeean: Have you actually read their license agreement?22:00
lcukits open source ffs22:00
dmj7261Patents cover tiny things that are really dumb22:00
RST38hlcuk: wouldnt be so sure about that22:00
dmj7261WHo here has made a program (or website) that involves anything like a pop-up window?22:01
GeneralAntillesPatents aren't inherently bad or evil, it's just their current implementation that's messed up.22:01
lcukRST38h, what is innovation tho22:01
dmj7261Patents aren't fulfilling their original purpose22:01
derfeean: I don't believe you.22:01
RST38hlcuk: wouldnt be sure it has not been done before I mean22:01
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I think you're only thinking in the scope of computer code, but you'll need to think beyond that.22:02
lcukGeneralAntilles, we have copyright22:02
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GeneralAntillesNot the same thing. :)22:02
lcukand that gives automatic protection which patents cannot22:02
dmj7261I suspect that patents on some things other than software are just fine22:02
eeanderf was agreeing with the general :P22:03
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dmj7261In software it's really the implementation that's important and difficult, not the idea or process (generally speaking)22:03
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RST38hoh god crackberry releases a companion watch22:03
derfdmj7261: Fortunately patent "disclosure" does not require the publication of source code!22:04
fiferboyOkay, everyone who has been holding back due to version churn can now rate personal-ip-address and personal-gprs-mon in extras-testing :)22:04
eeandmj7261 well some stuff does take some research, but yea22:04
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qwerty12_N810darktears: I promise "dbus-send --type=signal --session /com/nokia/hildon_desktop" brings up the task switcher on my N90022:05
dmj7261And even then, that research could very well be done without patents22:05
eeanthe problem with standards being patented is they get people to pay to be compatible, not because its best22:05
dmj7261and you often have the best implementations having dubious legality (media players for instance)22:06
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lcukmedia players? you mean codecs22:07
dmj7261yeah but that translates to media players using them.22:07
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dmj7261like vlc playing a dvd image on linux22:07
derfdmj7261: I don't think any of that is "dubious". It's blatantly illegal.22:07
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dmj7261only in certain countries!22:08
lcukdmj7261, VLC is fine AFAIK, its the dvd codec thats wrong - in certain countries22:08
dmj7261that said, it shouldn't be22:08
derflcuk: There is a thing called "contributory infringement".22:08
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Trying Personal IP Address now...22:08
derfWhich makes it VLC's problem, also.22:09
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Thanks22:09
dmj7261...and contributory contributory infringement22:09
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dmj7261...and contributory contributory contributory infringement22:09
kynkywell ordered the n900 , only saying cos excited22:10
dmj7261by the way, how is vlc on the n900?22:10
absolutei jsut think there's a fundamental discord when people treat ideas as if they were physical objects... people want freedom of information, but then they also want to keep it for themselves...22:10
lcukideas are fruitless without implementation.22:11
lcuki could keep all my ideas to myself22:11
derfNo one actually making or enforcing the laws gives two hoots about any platonic ideals.22:11
lcukor i could share em and hope they are implemented for the world22:11
derfIt's all about entrenched interests and market power.22:12
lcukmarket power from ideas comes from brand recognition22:12
wazdwazd_ isn't a sad person either, smiling 32.0% of the time. :D22:12
dmj7261brand recognition -> trademark22:12
absolutewell right... i guess that's just it... its about making money and keeping something to yourself and profiting from it as an individual more so than it is about creating information that is useful to the species on a larger scale22:12
qwerty12_N810wazd: Stick with the SDK, you'll soon become sad22:12
Pioincentive-driven system to counter-balance scarcity22:14
wazdqwerty12_N810: well, at least I can go back and forth in it :)22:15
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qwerty12_N810wazd: Soon, you will become slowly sucked in... Unable to escape...22:15
absolutenot saying that's bad to have incentive... but we go a bit overboard with individual identity and neglect our collective identity22:15
lcukabsolute, if i can make my idea businesses around the world will have 10x more instant feedback and retain the notes and ideas from presentations and meetings22:16
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lcuka supremely profitable idea22:16
eeanthe vlc project also develops the dvd decoder btw :P22:16
lcukbut i dont care what toolkit or company implements it22:16
lcuki just want it available22:16
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lcukmy fingers are tired and i cant code it on my own22:17
eeanbut vlc has the ultimate shield from being sued: having no money22:17
ali1234the idea that people will stop innovating because somebody might copy them is frankly laughable22:17
absolutei hope your project goes well22:17
dmj7261as long as people are copying you, you're most likely in the lead22:17
ali1234if you're sitting in the rain, you're not going to think "i'd better not build shelter because somebody might copy me, and i won't be able to profit"22:18 innovation is like a ticket into the lead position22:18
* lcuk just wants to work and think22:18
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dmj7261by the way for those who missed it, there's a thread about a potential World of Goo port22:19
* wazd thinks a bit to help the author of SideShow app with design22:19
eeandmj7261 awesome :D22:19
Solarionwhat is SideShow precisely?22:19
wazdSolarion: that\rquote s an app to work with Vista/W722:20
Solarionwazd: what does it *do*22:20
Solarionhow do you use it?22:20
wazdSolarion: it shows some aditional stuff on the screen of the tablet22:20
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SolarionI saw some markety thing that described it in just enough detail to not actually expalin on anything22:20
wazdSolarion: like cpu load, inbox and other widgets22:20
Solarionwhat is "some additional stuff"?22:20
Solarionah, so it's limited to widgets?22:20
absolutedesktop widget? or like an auto-hidden bar or something?22:20
wazdSolarion: google is your friend actually :)22:21
Solarionwazd: that's the markety thing I was talking about22:21
Solariondoesn't explain squat22:21
Solarionis the proto Open?22:22
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Solarionhow useful is this thing in practice?22:23
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Solarionthe wikipedia article is a tad more informative22:26
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Solarionsounds like the whole thing is rather dead in the water22:26
timeless_mbpi've almost finished my strings tool :)22:28
lcuk\o/ hurray22:28
Solarionwhat strings tool?22:28
zerojaytimeless_mbp: Good shit.22:29
timeless_mbpSolarion: it's a tool that helps people lookup strings/id's22:29
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Solariontimeless_mbp: in a program, or what?22:30
* Solarion tries to visualize what it's for22:30
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Rock on. I was using msgunfmt and grep the other day on the N900 and it sucked...22:30
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: this uses msgunfmt, it's a bit slow at first since it has to build the whole dictionary22:30
SolarionI presume that it's more intelligent than strings22:30
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: i really really need some help making zenity friendlier22:30
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: mxr + strings could be interesting22:30
timeless_mbpStskeeps: mxr typically gets strings right22:30
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Yep, I understand that, I mean the value of a tool which does it in one step is nice :)22:31
timeless_mbp(really, i worked on it ~3 years ago when i first started @nokia)22:31
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: anyway... about zenity22:31
timeless_mbp1. --column= headers don't seem to paint in my n900s22:31
Solariontimeless_mbp: does it read the elf data?22:31
timeless_mbp2. can we make the buttons fingerable?22:31
lcuk"s" ?22:31
timeless_mbpSolarion: .mo's22:31
Solarionwhat is .mo?22:32
timeless_mbplcuk: i have two :) (well 2 protos and one real)22:32
lcukwhen i get the flow thing working timeless can i get you to test?22:32
timeless_mbplcuk: sure22:32
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Sure, but I'll have to look into it over the weekend22:32
timeless_mbp3. can we get zenity to autosize smarter?22:32
timeless_mbpon average it undersizes its height :(22:33
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zerojayRobot101, wjt - Did you guys just release the Facebook Chat plugin for Conversations to a few people? Me too please? :)22:34
* Stskeeps wants.22:34
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wjtzerojay: it triggers a crash in the released telepathy-glib22:41
wjtzerojay: we're blocking on getting that fixed22:41
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zerojaywjt: Okay, thanks.22:45
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zerojaywjt: Let me know if you need testing.22:45
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zerojay - I'd argue against this but... eh... I guess I can't.22:50
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GeneralAntillesI think we're communication addicted.22:50
GeneralAntillesGadgets are just the medium.22:51
GeneralAntillesIt's kinda like saying junkies are syringe addicted.22:51
kynkyspoon addicted22:52
w00tI'm perfectly happy to be without, but I'd much rather be with :-)22:52
zerojay <-- I approve.22:52
kynkyclassic response of an addict22:52
w00tkynky: right now, I've really been without a mobile for a week.. my HTC universal finally died after years of torture22:53
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kynkyselling my touch pro to get nokia i just ordered22:54
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kynkyhopefully get around £180 to £200 for it22:54
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w00tkynky: i'll be ordering an n900 as soon as I get paid22:57
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kynkyw00t, u in uk ?22:58
SolarionI'll be ordering an n900 as soon as they come with a carrier bundle. :(22:59
w00tSolarion: thought about that, but I'd rather be out of pocket today and have more to spend in a year22:59
kynkyif you order before 21st, you can get n900 from nokia shop , from £499 to £310 (details in maemo forums)22:59
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* GeneralAntilles is worried about what carriers will do as far as plat sec goes.22:59
kynkyyou can also order on contact from tmobile and vodafone from free, from mobilephonesdirect23:00
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w00tkynky: got a link?23:00
w00tI heard something about that earlier, but never actually got any info on it23:00
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w00tGeneralAntilles: they better keep their mitts off it.23:01
qwerty12_N810"Maemo: Windows Starter Edition"23:01
kynkyw00t which for, £310 sim free, or contract deal ?23:01
GeneralAntillesw00t, I'm sure they wont.23:01
w00tkynky: sim-free23:01
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Seems fair to me - if you're under contract they prevent you running your own kernel (remains to be seen, of course, if they also restrict capabilities)23:01
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* timeless_mbp ponders23:02
* timeless_mbp grumbles23:02
timeless_mbpzenity[14744]: GLIB WARNING ** Panog - Invalid UTF-8 string passed to pango_layout_set_text()23:03
GeneralAntillesJaffa, well, my worry here is that people waiting on bundles may not realize what it entails.23:03
GeneralAntillesJaffa, carriers can do whatever they want with the hardware they sell as long as it complies with the licensing of the software they ship with it.23:04
GeneralAntillesJaffa, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. ;)23:04
zerojayMy other worry is whether there will be bundles at all.23:04
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w00tzerojay: bundles?23:05
w00tkynky: appreciated!23:05
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kynkyordered mine a few hours ago23:05
zerojayw00t: Subsidized N900s.23:06
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w00tmm - you mean offered by carriers?23:07
SpeedEvilThe UK seller - one of them at least - offering 'free' n900s is not customising them in any way.23:07
kynkyzerojay, you can get subsidized n900 on vodafone and tmobile in uk from free , from mobilephonesdirect23:07
SpeedEvil(or simlocking)23:07
zerojaykynky: Yes, but the entire world doesn't live in the UK. :)23:07
w00twhere are you?23:07
SpeedEvilzerojay: the daily mail disagrees.23:07
zerojaySpeedEvil: lol23:07
w00tSpeedEvil: hahahaha23:07
w00tSpeedEvil: I've got a brilliant link for you, sec23:08
zerojayw00t: Canada, though I already have an N900 anyways.23:08
zerojayWell, until September 2010.23:08
kynkyn900 devs with greater than 200 karma get special discount, and i guess a few here, are eligable for that23:08
timeless_mbpkynky: not devs23:09
timeless_mbpjust community members23:09
zerojayI'm supposed to get my discount, but the e-mail never showed up.23:09
kynkywell u know :)23:09
absolutenot only does it sound like its gonna be a while before we get t-mobile subsidies in the states here, but I'm pretty gunshy about buying any devices from cell carriers here23:09
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zerojay800+ karma right now.23:09
timeless_mbpquim tried to be very clear on that point23:09
absolutei got the e62 from cingular when they existed23:09
absoluteand that thing is branded/locked to hell23:09
zerojayWhoa whoa whoa.23:10
zerojayMy karma jumped up past 1100.23:10
w00tabsolute: no offense.. but you states-ians seem to get assraped when it comes to mobiles..23:10
absolutei couldn't even repurpose it because they disabled all the bluetooth libs (jsr-something) unless you were signed with a special cingular/at&t certificate23:10
zerojayHow in the fuck did that happen.23:10
absolutewhich at&t didn't even know how i could get23:10
kynkydont think the carriers like the skype , when my vodafone conyact ends, prob get a 3 simcard, for £5/month get 2GB d/l limit, and they actively support skype23:10
smackpotatmine is at 58 i guess i dont get anything23:11
absoluteI know nokia isn't restricting software specifically, but i'm still not wanting to get locked into a carrier23:11
w00tkynky: I'm lucky. Company simcard, unlimited data plan.23:11
SpeedEvilUnfortunately, people in the UK with the requisite karma can't really meaningfully take advantage with it.23:12
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SpeedEvilas it's cheaper to ignore it and buy subsidised23:12
javispedrozerojay: clearly, the issue is that you have too much karma and the algorithm deciding the lists used an unsigned char.23:12
kynkyw00t, what kind of unlimited? vodafone dont support skype, tmobile only support skype on their £25/month data plan , and that on top of normal phone plan (for instance tmboile standard unlimited plan is £5/month for 1gig d/l limit)23:12
* lcuk kicks his funky laptop23:13
kynkybut you can get round it with a vpn23:13
zerojayjavispedro: Well.. I had 830 or so a few days ago... looks like my bugzilla karma doubled overnight.23:13
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w00tkynky: I don't know the details, but as far as I know, unlimited unlimited23:13
w00tit's a local phone co, though, so I doubt you'd be able to get it23:13
w00t(also a very old plan, ~3 years)23:14
w00tthey resell O223:14
w00tso maybe see what they offer23:14
kynkythink the top package £25 data plan, is still 10GB limit23:14
kynkybut doesnt matter really23:14
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SpeedEvilvoice + 25 quid that is I assume23:16
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timeless_mbpaww, i'm not in the top 1023:16
GeneralAntillesHrm, I lost my Talk karma.23:16
kynkySpeedEvil, yeah23:17
GeneralAntillesNo wonder Jaffa beat me.23:17
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: ouch23:17
GeneralAntillesHrm, I guess URLs don't work.23:18
timeless_mbp :)23:18
GeneralAntillesJaffa, gonna kick your ass as soon as this thing reindexes.23:18
GeneralAntillesJaffa, get ready for the beat down. :P23:18
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, ooh, I need to file more bugs. :P23:19
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lcukim sure karma is just made up on the spot23:19
* timeless_mbp frowns23:19
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kynkySpeedEvil, ---> the max package23:21
kynkyridiculous cost23:21
* timeless_mbp really needs some way to deal w/ window transience23:21
Ceron^seriously is the n900 worth buying23:21
Ceron^im starting to wonder23:22
zerojaykynky: Haha, you think that's bad? Come to Canada. :)23:22
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SpeedEvilCeron^: no.23:22
kynkyCeron^, imho , its the best phone for the next 6 months23:22
zerojayCeron^: Why?23:22
SpeedEvilCeron^: it's gonna suck.23:22
Ceron^well the usb host 0 support, no good navigation software23:22
SpeedEvilCeron^: If you value having root on a phone - it's practically the only phone out there.23:22
kynkyovi maps for linux (maemo) will improve23:23
timeless_mbpCeron^: i think it's likely that maemo mapper will be there23:23
GeneralAntillesCeron^, Maemo Mapper.23:23
zerojayCeron^: It rocks, plain and simple. I've never needed USB host on previous tablets nor this one... Ovi Maps is more than good enough for me.23:23
timeless_mbpand fennec geoloc support will probably enable google maps23:23
GeneralAntillesMaybe the Ovi Maps team will suddenly stop sucking.23:23
Ceron^what if i for example want to take my canon 5d pictures and transfer them to my n90023:23
SpeedEvilIt's likely - Imo - that the opensource alternatives of the closed-source parts will start to increase after there are several thousand devices in the wild23:23
kynkyyou can install debian and gentoo on it, and a full linux distro can do alot :)23:23
SpeedEvilUSB host is not quite determined.23:23
timeless_mbpCeron^: does your canon not use SD?23:23
zerojayCeron^: Take your card out of your camera and put it into the N900.23:24
Ceron^compact falsh23:24
Ceron^flash like all the pro cameras doo23:24
timeless_mbpand no wifi support on your camera?23:24
Ceron^nope ;D23:24
SpeedEvilThere hasn't quite been determination one way or the other.23:24
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