IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-10-18

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woglindefelipec I will test both stuff if I ever get a n90000:00
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felipecmoreover dsp-link is a complete mess, dsp-bridge at least has been cleaned up by Nokia developers, and is a bit closer to linux kernel standards00:02
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felipecwith a bit of work it might be merged upstream00:02
woglindeah that would be cool00:03
felipecdsp-link hasn't even been submitted for review00:03
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RST38hfelipec: so, we are coming back to my original suspicion :)00:21
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felipecRST38h: huh? TI provided us with a solution based on dsp-bridge: libbridge, and tiopenmax... I started gst-dsp on my free-time, and found it that it performed much better, so we used it :)00:24
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javispedroif the spain nokia store is any accurate, the n900 is the "top seller" phone right now.00:24
RST38hfelipec: I referred to your mention of dsp-link being complete mess00:25
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javispedrobye rst00:26
felipecRST38h: heh, sorry, what original suspicion are you talking about?00:26
RST38hfelipec: that the ti solution was messy and not sufficiently supported00:26
RST38hg'night javis00:26
javispedroanyone knows a mirror for stuff? site is dawn slow.00:27
woglindejavispedro nope00:27
javispedrowell, I have to download half a gigabyte at V.90 speeds.00:28
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timeless_mbp!summon qwerty00:29
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mgedminuh oh I closed my own bug as RESOLVED INVALID by accident00:30
timeless_mbpreopen :)00:30
woglindefelipec is TI releasing some more codecs in future?00:30
timeless_mbpanyone here understand how maemo decides if an application window wants to be system modal?00:30
mgedminno, but I would like to thwack some of those system modal windows over the head for being system modal for no good reason00:31
mgedminovi account validation for one00:31
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felipecwoglinde: what do you mean by releasing? :)00:32
woglindeI thought you somehow worked together with them00:33
mgedminshhh don't blow his cover00:34
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felipecwoglinde: yes, but there are programs, requirements, and licenses00:35
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woglindefelipec right00:35
felipecwoglinde: they provide us with updates according to those, let's say for the Fremantle program00:35
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felipecwoglinde: what they provide for Harmattan is different... and they also provide some public binaries, which are also different00:35
woglindefelipec okay I will how I can integrate it in oe00:36
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: hrm00:57
timeless_mbpcould i convince you to investigate what it would take to make zenity dialogs not system modal?00:57
crashanddie_Jaffa, would you know how to play a sine from python?00:58
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TechGeek2Does anyone know how to get apps on Andorid on the n810?01:01
ArkenkloTechGeek2: yes, it's not possible01:01
mgedmintimeless_mbp: you probably could, but with my lack of relevant context knowledge it would not be the most efficient way01:01
mgedmincan't you kidnap a nokian and interrogate him/her?01:01
Arkenklofrom what I've picked up, you basically require the entire android system virtualized for it to work01:02
timeless_mbpmgedmin: i'd almost certainly get the wrong one01:02
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TechGeek2can anyone teach me how to port android to the n810 then? How do you convert the fiels so they work on teh n810?01:03
* timeless_mbp sighs01:03
timeless_mbpthis is #maemo, not #android01:03
ArkenkloTechGeek2: I doubt that someone will teach you, but it certainely can be done01:04
Arkenklo....(i think)01:04
mgedminwell, to be fair the question crosses both domains01:04
kirmawonder nobody has yet suggested running windows mobile on N900. I mean, as hacked-in version, heroic microsoft fans have certainly stated that the device is flawed because it doesn't have winmo preinstalled.01:04
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mgedminsadly, the answer is probably "step 1: study advanced computer things for 5 years"01:04
timeless_mbpmgedmin: it might cross #n810 or #n80001:04
Arkenklomgedmin: not really, maemo is not the n81001:04
timeless_mbpkirma: vmware ported vmware to the n80001:04
timeless_mbpso ...01:05
mgedminreading_comprehension -= 101:05
timeless_mbpmgedmin: as penance you can try my zenity problem :)01:05
timeless_mbpzenity is in extras-devel01:05
timeless_mbpjust try a simple zenity dialog and you'll see the problem01:05
kirmatimeless_mbp: I must admit I'm sort of interested on virtualisation on smartphones, but not really to run multiple different-vendor OSes :)01:06
johnxtimeless_mbp, what's wrong with it? it seems to work ok on mer ...01:06
timeless_mbpjohnx: on my n900 it's system modal01:06
timeless_mbpe.g. zenity --warning01:06
TechGeek2is it just opening the android source and converting it to pyton?01:06
mgedminyuck, zenity --info --text "hello"01:06
mgedmintotal hig violation, I assume01:07
johnxtimeless_mbp, still not getting the problem?01:07
javispedrokirma: as I've usually said, you can port windows ce.01:07
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johnxthat you can't click anything else until it goes away?01:07
javispedrothey give you a 120ish trial for doing so.01:07
johnxis that really a problem?01:07
kirmajohnx: if I happen to have windows ce sources around, I bet I can :)01:07
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timeless_mbpit pisses off users01:07
johnxlots of things are system modal, right?01:07
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timeless_mbplots of annoying dialogs are01:07
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mgedminfew things I've noticed01:07
johnxkurtan, huh?01:07
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johnxtimeless_mbp, s/lots/all/01:08
javispedrokirma: that's what I mean, you can get windows ce sources.01:08
timeless_mbpcrash-reporter is modal01:08
mgedmintimeless_mbp: my *wild guess* is that the dialog is not transient to any application window01:08
* kurtan slaps johnx for hilight01:08
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mgedmintherefore if you switch away from it, there'll be no way of going back01:08
crashanddie_does /dev/dsp exist on maemo?01:08
mgedmincrashanddie_: not to my knowledge01:08
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mgedminls: /dev/dsp: No such file or directory01:08
crashanddie_mgedmin, damn01:08
johnxkurtan, eep. sorry01:09
crashanddie_mgedmin, just did a cat /dev/random > /dev/dsp to see what would happen01:09
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kurtanjohnx, ok, move along01:09
kirmaanyway, I feel that people switching whole OSes from smartphone(ish) devices to something completely different have way too much time for their hobbies.01:09
mgedminas root?  you'd get a new file full of random data01:09
johnxcrashanddie_, you could use padsp01:09
mgedminuntil the filesystem filled up01:09
crashanddie_johnx, which does?01:09
Arkenklomgedmin: right, sorry01:09
crashanddie_mgedmin, well, yeah, I figured that... now01:09
johnxcrashanddie_, wraps your program and takes what it tries to output to /dev/dsp and outputs it via pulseaudio01:10
johnxmight work ok if you're not too sensitive to latency01:10
cosmokirma: i think installing linux on weird hardware is a good hobby01:10
crashanddie_johnx, oh, so something like padsp ./
kirmacosmo: welll, yes. but installing it on hardware where 95% of original intended functionality becomes unreachable as result is mostly just waste of time :)01:11
cosmokirma: usually you CAN at least ping localhost01:12
mgedmintimeless_mbp: "Another detail to take care of is that GtkDialogs can work in two modalities in a Hildon application: task-model or system-model. A dialog is task-modal if it is transient for the main window."01:12
kirmayep, that's the thing why we have all those gadgets :)01:12
cosmowell, there are some success hacks like ipaq linux, some digital camera linuxes, openwrt, etc01:12
timeless_mbpmgedmin: ok, so how does one hack zenity to enable it to satisfy hildon's insane behavior?01:13
mgedminmy wild guess was right01:13
ali1234cosmo: android on htc :)01:13
timeless_mbpcan we make a fully transparent main window? :)01:13
crashanddie_johnx, /usr/bin/padsp: line 74: getopts: not found01:13
mgedmintimeless_mbp: what's your use case?  displaying a notification from a postinst script or something?01:13
kirmaI had ipaq back when their linux port was announced and played with it (including external wlan thingie)... not very useful, but still, someone stole it from my work desk. could have skipped at least that...01:13
timeless_mbpmgedmin: writing apps in perl01:13
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mgedmintimeless_mbp: why not use perl's gtk bindings?01:14
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timeless_mbpbecause i don't like gtk :)01:14
timeless_mbpi don't want to learn it01:14
felipec/dev/dsp is oss, isn't it?01:14
timeless_mbpi just want to say "i need an X"01:14
felipecthat's deprecated01:14
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woglindefelipec hm no alsa too01:14
mgedmindo you have a reasonable application main window?01:15
timeless_mbpi only have a series of dialogs01:15
mgedmindo you run your app from an xterm then?01:15
felipecwoglinde: only when there's OSS emulation01:15
timeless_mbpit gets launched from the More... menu01:15
woglindehows alsa than working01:15
woglindeseems my knowledge is limited01:16
felipecwoglinde: alsa-lib?01:16
mgedminI think you'd need to hack up WINDOW_ID=`zenity --main-window`; zenity --warning --text "..." --transient-for $WINDOW_ID01:16
felipecI'm not sure about '/dev/dsp' being OSS... just guessing01:16
ali1234woglinde: /dev/snd/*01:16
mgedminor something like that01:16
mgedminsounds like more work than learning to use gtk from perl...01:17
mgedminor getting someone to rewrite your app in python01:17
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mgedmintimeless_mbp: do you have a source repository for translations-enus1?01:24
timeless_mbpi'm not currently sharing it01:25
timeless_mbpthe mo's aren't really interesting01:25
timeless_mbpyou can use dpkg-deb to extract the interesting bits01:25
mgedminah, ok01:26
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Andrilany n810 users on?01:28
woglindeandril I have one01:28
* mgedmin is01:28
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crashanddie_johnx, nice idea, sadly doesn't exist on maemo01:29
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Andrilwoglinde: what os are you running? and what have you tried?01:30
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woglinde2008 latest01:30
woglindeI tried no other01:30
johnxcrashanddie_, and pulse-dsp isn't quite working on mer yet, so I can't even plug that ;)01:30
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Andrilok cool - got issues with my gps -wish google maps was for 0s200801:31
woglindenavit is working with osm maps01:32
AndrilNavit is good - huh01:32
mgedminmaemo-mapper ftw01:32
Andrili'll give it a try now01:33
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Andrildo they do directions?01:33
lardman|afknavit should do offline directions01:34
lardman|afkmaemo-mapper requires a web connection01:35
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Andrillardman|afk: thanks01:35
crashanddie_too tired for writing code01:36
crashanddie_can't focus01:36
lardmanmaemo-mapper is good though, Navit can be a bit hit and miss, but fingers crossed it improves, etc01:36
* crashanddie_ goes to ride his bike01:36
* lardman worries about bike riding when not able to focus....01:37
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crashanddie_lardman, no worries, just going down in the woods, no cars or anything01:37
Andrili just want my gps back the wayfinder is off alot and the fee doesnt help01:37
lardmanhmm, trees... they don't have lights at night either ;)01:37
crashanddie_lardman, nope, but I do01:38
lardmanall good, have fun!01:38
lardmanlots of bits of a bike, but no complete bike! ;)01:39
EspadaV8motorbike? or push bike?01:40
EspadaV8and at 23:20?01:40
crashanddie_a few things have changed since then01:41
lardmanI know nothing much about bikes, but it's not carbon anyway01:42
lardmanbut looks very nice01:42
EspadaV8nice looking bike01:43
Andrilnice wheels01:44
crashanddie_the big picture has the old tyres01:44
Andrilgood camera aslo01:44
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crashanddie_now I've got the shiny grippy funky igniters!01:44
crashanddie_Andril, n90001:44
Andrilahhh man01:45
Andrilgot navit installed but it just sits in Minchen01:46
lardmanyou have to load maps for it01:47
lardmani.e. download them and install them01:47
lardmantake a look on TMO, should be a thread explaining it somewhere, otherwise on the OSM website iirc01:47
Andrilgot a link?01:47
mgedminAndril: are you online?  have you installed agps?  it helps get faster gps fix times01:48
mgedminotherwise you may have to wait 6 minutes outside until the gps figures out where it is01:48
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mgedminand I think a fresh fix in a new continent may take up to 20 minutes or so01:48
Andrilgetting it now01:48
mgedminsince it has to download almanac data from the satellites at their broadcast rate of 1.5 bits per second or something01:48
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* mgedmin finally figures out that zenity --hildon probably means old hildon, not maemo 5 hildon01:49
mgedminand that's why I perceive no visual difference between zenity and zenity --hildon01:49
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qwerty12_N810It really doesn't mean much. Some changes to some of the stuff it provides (like the file chooser) to use the equivalent Hildon widget.01:51
lardmanhmm, am having trouble capturing output to a file, should "./foo &> bar.txt" work always?01:51
johnxdoes &> work in ash?01:51
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crashanddie_mgedmin, if only the gps on the n810 was able to use ephemeris data properly01:52
johnx./foo 1> stdout 2> stderr01:52
Andrilgoogleapps is a much needed port01:52
lardmanjohnx: seems not01:52
lardmanjohnx: simple > did the trick thankfully01:53
mgedmindunno about properly; in the end I gave up on the gps completely and just use maemo-mapper as an offline map viewer01:53
crashanddie_Jaffa, you never used python to output sound on the n900?01:53
mgedminkeeping my position manually up to date from time to time01:53
crashanddie_Jaffa, haha, you've been favourited:
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crashanddie_so anyway, is anyone working on the IR thingy on the n900?01:58
* mgedmin installed irreco and gave up after 10 minutes of the incomprehensible user interface02:00
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lizardocrashanddie_: he is probably sleeping ... hehe (just a guess)02:02
lizardo( Jaffa , I mean)02:03
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lardmanis there a page somewhere about using debian helper?02:05
lardmanor even, is there a command to run autotools and then the configure script?02:06
johnxHave you tried just running dh-make in the top of your project directory and seeing what happens?02:07
derflardman: If you find one, let me know.02:07
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lardmanyeah just done that and it's generated a rules file that I need to tweak02:07
lardmanderf: :)02:07
derfThat actually applies to either of those things.02:08
lardmanI guess copying an existing non cdbs rules file is the way forward02:08
lizardolardman: you have a already,   "autoreconf -f -i"  will probably do the work to you (but it will not run ./configure, you will need to do that)02:08
johnxin that rules file I think you can just check out the configure section and put in the lines you need02:08
lardmanlizardo: but does debian helper do that for me with some dh_ command, or do I have to explicitly add that in the proper section of rules?02:09
johnxah, didn't get that you were looking for the autotools commands, not where to put them in a debian package02:09
johnxah, picture is getting clearer :)02:09
lardmanor murkier depending on how you see Debianisation ;)02:09
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derfDebianisation works like everything else.02:10
derfYou find a working package and you copy it.02:10
lizardolardman: debhelper does not run autotools for you ,  you need to do that manually on debian/rules...02:10
lardmanlizardo: ok, thanks02:10
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lardmanderf: indeed, will do that tomorrow02:10
lardmantime to hit the sack now, night chaps02:10
johnx'night lardman02:10
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b-man17can anyone help me with this? - i´m trying to add a single-column selector to a control panel applet for Maemo5 - and i can´t seem to find a way to apply the selector :(02:36
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b-man17what i´m trying to accomplish is this:
b-man17(in a control panel applet)02:37
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crashanddie_awesum, one remote for sound and tv02:37
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b-man17...can anyone help?02:40
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Firebirdb-man17, ... in gtk?02:40
Firebirdvbox and hboxes don't work?02:41
* b-man17 isn´t shure - i´ve just started using gtk02:42
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mgedmincrashanddie_: you have success with irreco?02:43
mgedmingood for you02:43
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guysoft42hey, how can i download in sb2 the kernel headers of maemo?04:24
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ali1234has anyone done a package of libode?04:42
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pupnik_hi good people05:12
pupnik_i just found that the local bar is full of ugly people05:13
derfYou just haven't had enough to drink yet.05:13
t_s_othe world is full of ugly people, the few good looking ones ends up working fashion and entertainment...05:14
t_s_ostill, looks are not everything. the mind is what counts in the long run...05:14
pupnik_i was thinkign more of good hearts05:14
pupnik_just not the plce to go05:15
t_s_oheh, heart, mind, much the same in my book...05:15
pupnik_i am suffering post-summit letdownw05:16
pupnik_you meet the best peope05:16
pupnik_and then its like damn...05:17
pupnik_they were the best05:17
t_s_oexperiences like that can make one wish one could work at some think tank, or maybe a university electronics/computers lab...05:19
t_s_owell ill be, creative have made pc speakers with bluetooth...05:21
t_s_oand aux in as well, heh, i could use this as generic music speakers ;)05:22
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pupnik_t_s_o: well i've not known you to say stupid things here.  i hope good things in store for you05:35
pupnik_see here's my thing.  i really think nokia's maemo can change the future for the beter05:36
* lcuk raises a glass to that05:37
pupnik_because centralized control is evil and that goes into politics05:37
pupnik_but a lot of us are here because of politics too05:37
lcukdifferent politics05:37
pupnik_cheers lcuk05:37
pupnik_i am scared of the pentagon05:38
lcuki was always nervous around triangles05:38
lcukwhy worry about the pentagon tho05:39
lcukthey are half a world away05:39
pupnik_you and I are nervous people05:39
lcukdifferent reasons and focus05:39
pupnik_i am going to listen to tonights antiwar radio05:39
lcukdo you think theres a daily proware radio?05:40
lcuknot that i would listen05:40
pupnik_msnbc, etc05:40
pupnik_i have a bit of a problem with this bombing people stuff because my parents got bombed into rubble05:41
pupnik_dug out of ruins as children05:41
pupnik_lcuk: you know pentagon just exceeded all recruitment targets?05:42
lcuki have a problem with it too, but thankfully never come close enough to know05:42
lcuktheres a jobs crisis05:42
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derfpupnik_: And my dad worked at the Pentagon :).05:42
pupnik_but nott good05:42
pupnik_that organization produces few useful products05:43
lcuka mobile army of men able to perform any duty commanded could actually be used for the best in the world05:43
lcukits a shame their time is wasted05:43
lcukfor instance, the damned russian army would have the best uniforms and most stylish tanks05:43
lcukif only they would let wazd do what his heart tells him05:44
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t_s_ofunny, i had a much higher karma then expected...05:45
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pupnik_never trust government05:46
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t_s_othen who sould one trust? big international corps?05:47
t_s_obetter load that shotgun then i guess...05:48
GAN900Good plan. ;)05:49
pupnik_big internatinal corps cant put a gun to your head05:50
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pupnik_government does, every day05:50
t_s_oheh, often at big corps say so, i fear...05:51
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t_s_obah, i find myself having a hard time coming up with usage scenarios for AR, that a overhead map could not do just as well. unless one have some kind of object recognition going...05:55
derfFor a tablet it's probably better to use artificial markers.05:55
ali1234automatic translation of signs etc?05:55
t_s_oali1234: the thing i would do there is a barcode and some corner marks so that the device can look up a fitting overlay online. much quick and reliable then a OCR...05:56
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ali1234that's still AR05:57
t_s_otrue, but needs infrastructure changes to really be effective (replacing signs and setting up servers for translations)05:57
t_s_oon that note, i really hope that AR moves into a kind of always on scenario, where one have glasses or similar in use, rather then waving ones phone around all the time...05:59
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pupnik_nokia n900 could recognize foreign signs06:00
pupnik_needs investors, ovi/appstoree06:00
SpeedEvilOr product placement.06:02
zerojayanyone know how media player works?06:05
zerojayI'd like to get some chiptunes going. ;)06:05
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lcuki get presentation time down under 10 mins06:07
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lcukand then camera craps out at 83006:07
pupnik_yo dudes06:11
pupnik_how does it feel to be involved with the greatest thing in the world06:11
pupnik_freeing handhelds from evil control iss a really good raison d;etre06:11
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pupnik_am i the only person here who feels charged with a mission from god|06:12
t_s_oi cant help wonder, will a carrier locked maemo 6 running device void the GPL3 license?06:13
luke-jrthe lock is probably in the phone06:14
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Texratah, there is life!06:15
luke-jrO HAI THAR06:16
t_s_oluke-jr: it was just that i got the impression from the slides that a carrier locked maemo 6 would refuse to boot a non-signed setup06:16
t_s_olife there is, but i am not sure on quality or kind...06:16
luke-jrt_s_o: then it would void the GPL 2 as well06:16
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Texratlooks like someone removed the reference to the web irc page on the maemo wiki06:16
luke-jrbut Nokia did that with the N810 anyway06:16
luke-jrso they probably don't care06:16
t_s_omeh, of to bed, have fun people06:17
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pupnik_Texrat: hy06:20
Texrathey Arnim06:20
Texratyou worried me by disappearing06:20
Texrathey I'm equally sorry for talking your poor ear off06:20
Texratjust got so fired up by the event06:20
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Texratcool, can't wait to see them06:21
Texratlol... not the reaction I expected from my blabbering06:22
pupnik_Texrat: pm06:22
TexratI get carried away06:22
pupnik_do you see the message i sent you|06:22
Texrathey Arnim I'm working on a song inspired by the trip06:23
Texratpupnik_:no not yet06:23
pupnik_hmm i send you another private message06:23
pupnik_try to respond on the private channel06:23
lcukwill youtube accept it06:24
lcukhi tekonivel06:25
lcukhi Texrat even06:25
Texrathey gary06:25
lcuko_O i am a named person06:26
* lcuk is not running over presentation again, how can i shave 1 second off it06:26
GAN900Texrat, web irc is evil.06:27
Texratgan900: I'm lazy06:27
lcukTexrat, not lazy, just focused06:28
GAN900You should see the characters the web client on drags in there.06:28
Texratha!  thanks el cock but I'm allergic to focus06:28
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lcukdamnation i cant have youtube rejecting me again06:29
lcukGAN900, how do i get rid06:29
lcukwe need live editing (from the cocreation)06:29
lcuka video06:29
lcukits 10:01 long06:29
GAN900Delete it from My Videos06:29
lcukand youtube already rejected one 15min vid of mine today - cos it was over 10mins06:29
lcuki dont want to delete it06:29
lcuki want to upload a new one to youtube06:30
GAN900Dropdown under the account link in the top right.06:30
lcukbut it ran over a tiny bit06:30
GAN900Oh, dunno.06:30
* lcuk decides which end to cut - the silence at the start, or the thank you at the end06:31
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lcukTexrat, wheres the song then?06:35
Texratin process el cock06:35
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Texratlcuk what do you actually mean?  were you expecting it to be finished already?06:36
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lcukno but i half spotted it in the recent posts list a few hours ago06:37
lcukbut i didnt have time to read the thread06:37
lcukby the sounds of the comments i did hit, there was something06:37
Texratthere you go lcuk06:38
Texrathave not got to the vocal stuff yet06:38
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GAN900Texrat, that's worse than my .movs06:45
Texratgan900, it's compact06:45
Texratand I'm unable to get good MP3s06:46
GAN900It's eeeeviiiiil06:47
Texratyeah yeah06:47
Texratbut it works06:47
Texratgot it in ogg too if that helps :D06:48
Texratbut my N900 refuses to play ogg files even with the ogg-support installed06:48
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ali1234accelerometer + physics sim + handheld device = fun06:57
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lcuknow the damned batteries are dying07:08
lcukTexrat, o_O you do the guitar yourself07:08
ali1234wont play for some reason :(07:10
lcukits youtube !07:10
lcukdoes any youtube play07:10
ali1234yeah :/07:11
Texratlcuk all instruments in the song are virtual or sampled07:11
lcukTexrat, nice07:11
lcukyou need to use n900 as midi controller ;)07:12
TexratI love Band in a Box : )07:12
lcukaccelereometer based air guitar ;)07:12
Texratooo ya07:12
lcuki keep pondering using the calendar to strum07:12
lcukusing the columns as the notes07:12
Texratactually the N900 would work great as rainstick or maracas emulator07:12
lcukhaha yeah07:12
lcukali1234, sorry, not installing random binaries from unknown person07:13
ali1234suit yourself :)07:13
TexratI got your binaries lcuk07:14
lcukthose come from :)07:14
lcukor did i use the buffer overflow exploit again?07:14
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Texratah that slide guitar does sound righteous07:16
Texratmakes me drift07:16
Texratcan't wait to get some vocals in07:17
lcukyeah the backing track sound cool07:17
Texratadded hand claps to a few spots for punctuation07:17
lcukwe need collaborative singsong07:17
Texrata whole album after next summit07:18
lcuki so wanted the presentation to work at the summit07:18
Texratsorry man07:18
lcukthe cocreation stuff was related to this kind of thing07:18
Texratyeah I saw the synergy07:18
* lcuk hates computers and technology07:18
Texratyou gonna incorporate my idea?07:18
lcukits been in mind for ages and ages07:19
Texratoh crap then not my idea07:19
Texrathey proximity = not only intensity but also magnetism07:19
Texratso one device nabs content from another in passing07:19
lcukfirst revision of the library has a slot ready for "jagernotes" which are going to be recordings of boxar07:19
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lcukeverything sketched on the screen records x,y,pressure+time07:20
lcukso can theoretically be played back07:20
Texratand physics!07:20
lcukplug in different backends and any instrument is possible07:20
lcuki dont like contagious like that07:20
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lcukthats bad07:20
lcukbut if i enter a room with wifi07:20
lcukand on the wifi there is a presentation/meeting/lesson/jammingsession in progress07:21
lcuki should be able to join it07:21
lcukonce im joined the data is collaborative07:21
lcukso when im making notes it works07:21
Texratcurrent bug: wifi does not always automatically reconnect07:21
lcuknot a big deal07:21
Texratexperienced at event07:21
lcukbut everyone currently walks somewhere and treats wifi like lifeblood itself07:22
lcuk"omg i need a connection"07:22
Texrata fix!07:22
lcukso we humans tend to fix it07:22
* lcuk was offline for the entire weekend07:22
Texratwifi is more like clots than blood07:22
lcuknahhh thats the cloud07:22
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lcukfails more than it ever seems to work07:23
Texratclouds are siloed07:23
lcukthere are so many places on earth with no remote networking07:23
Texratno uber cloud07:23
lcukits like gps07:23
lcukmeant to be the perfect location07:23
lcukbut it fails when you need it - inside with friends07:23
Texratdoes N900 gps detect height?07:23
lcuknatural element of gps i would assume07:24
Texratwonder how fine it can get07:24
Texratfeet? meters?  miles?07:24
lcuksame res as elsewhere?07:24
* Texrat shrugs07:24
lcukbut it still fails - i want to just create an adhoc wifi network deep inside a cave07:24
lcukand let people who visit the cave07:24
Texratanother element to explore for you07:24
lcukdraw on the graffiti wall07:25
lcukgps doesnt bother me - its too global and not actually useful when i need it07:25
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lcukdamn damn damn07:26
lcukwhere can i get batteries from07:26
lcukat this late hour07:26
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Texrateh, off to bed for an hour gang07:41
Texratgot a meeting coming up, sigh07:41
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RST38hmoo all08:50
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Xisdibikqwerty12_N810: you awake?09:37
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DHRI'm looking for the "less" program for my n800.  "more" comes with busybox, but I don't know where to find "less".  There is a manpage:
Stskeepsapt-get install less? :P10:05
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DHRStskeeps: I tried that but there seems to be no "less" in the repositories known to my apt-get (tableteer, maemo, and gizmoproject).  Any other thoughts?10:17
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StskeepsDHR: extras? dunno10:21
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Meizirkkihow many opened that URL?10:26
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daurnimatorhopefully none10:27
Patinahopefully someone punched snokat in the face.10:28
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DHRI've found less here:  Is there a repository that would get this for me?  In other words, something that would let apt-get find this?10:31
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timelessstring testers, why haven@'t you complained that my app name and control panel name don't match? :(10:38
timelessdhr; are you using diablo?10:39
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timelessit's in dikablo extras-devel10:45
timelessaccording to
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CorsacKhertan: still not around?11:09
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JaffaMorning, all11:09
Stskeepsmorning jaffa11:09
lbthi Jaffa11:11
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* lbt not an iphone user - but can you use an iphone with fingernails?11:25
lcuknot in my experience11:29
lcukmornin lbt11:29
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lbtjust wondering as Imrs lbt has long fingernails and I notice she tends to use them in preference to fingers... just a thought from the 'girl' PoV11:33
lbtalthough the keyboard is unusable for her :(11:33
jaskaiphone with fingernails? no go11:33
jaskaive tried using a friends one...11:33
JaffaYes! Hermes has now matched "Valerio Valerio" and VDVsx's properly accented Facebook account :)11:33
lcukyes jaffa!11:34
Stskeepsi forget, does the accents differ in firstname and surname? ;)11:34
jaskaheavy metal umlauts?11:34
JaffaStskeeps: No, both e-acute11:34
lbtValério Valério?11:35
Stskeepshm, n900 has actually made me actually use my thumbs in the right way on tablets11:35
* lbt thinks he should change his name to Valério Valèrio .... maybe watching too much Mr Monk?11:36
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lcukahhh finally got youtube to accept a video!
lcukliqbase presentation - using liqbase presentation pager :)11:40
JaffaStskeeps: Opposable thumbs FTW!11:40
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: someone should make a panoramic wallpaper of
Stskeepsor something :P11:41
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* Stskeeps needs Tear for n900.11:48
qwerty12_N810Build it from SVN.11:48
Stskeepsi am severely considering that11:48
* Stskeeps should really dig out his extras-devel upload rights and post gnutar11:50
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fralsdid the upgrades to the n8x0 ever upgrade the kernel version or was it just other software updates?11:58
qwerty12_N810OS2007 -> OS2008 resulted in a kernel update from 2.6.18 to 2.6.21. Apart from that, nothing.11:59
fralsokey, cheers11:59
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wazdheya all :)12:03
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Stskeepsmorning wazd12:05
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ivan_. 0,0012:17
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crashanddie_I hate how job websites require you to categorise yourself12:22
crashanddie_yes, I wouldn't mind doing software development, I also wouldn't mind doing bizdev, nor would I mind product management, or system architect12:23
crashanddie_why are those mutually exclusive?12:23
LupuI especially hate the ones that require you to be an IE user for things to work.12:23
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crashanddie_Lupu, that's usually just a user-agent hack to get around12:24
crashanddie_Lupu, and those websites are dying fast, luckily12:24
LupuUnfortunately a certain Maemo-related company has that problem...12:25
crashanddie_or it didn't happen :P12:25
Lupuat least my Firefox or girlfriend's Safari can't handle it.12:25
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LupuNokia's job search12:26
crashanddie_Nokia's job search works fine lol12:26
crashanddie_well, the UI is horrible, but it works12:26
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LupuNot for me on FF or my girlfriend on Safari12:26
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LupuDo the jobs it supposedly find really match your search criteria?12:27
cvandonderenhow can I delete a radio station from the online radio list?12:28
LupuFor me it "seemingly" works, but really finds completely undelated stuff12:28
Lupuwhereas IE gives the correct results12:28
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crashanddie_Lupu, when's the last time you tried?12:30
crashanddie_Lupu, I remember that as well about a year ago, seems to be working fine now12:30
LupuA few weeks ago12:30
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timelesscvandonderen: i'm not sure you do12:45
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timelessah, tap and hold12:45
cvandonderentimeless: Yeah, though so, already writing a bug report about that12:45
timelessselect delete12:45
cvandonderenwhere can I select delete?12:45
timelessfrom the listt view, i get a context menu12:46
timelessyou're usiong an n900, right?12:46
cvandonderentimeless: yes12:46
cvandonderenat the top it only gives me: add radio bookmark & FM Transmitter12:46
timelesscontext menu12:46
timelessnot title menu12:46
cvandonderenaah, you need to keep it clicked...12:46
cvandonderennot very usable....12:47
timelessstandard ui metaphor12:47
cvandonderen(or at least: easy to find12:47
timelessnot sure it's covered in the tutorial12:47
timelessanyone, is tap+hold covered there?12:47
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timelessbtw, what language are you using?12:49
* timeless is looking for testers12:49
timelessoh brother12:49
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timelessthe dialog says "delete file"12:49
qwerty12_N810timeless: Actually, why was the spinning icon removed when you tap and hold? Too slow? Nokia make it a point to display an arrow in the titlebar when there is a menu that you can select so I'm wondering why remove the tap and hold icon which, really, serves the same purpose as the blue arrow in the title except for the tap and hold menu12:50
* timeless doesn't usually call radio stations files12:50
timelessqwerty: fwiw, the down area in the title was added after week 37 iirc12:50
qwerty12_N810Yep, I saw, but I'm more curious about the tap and hold icon :)12:51
timelessie incredibly late when user testing said "that menu isn't discoverasble, duh"12:51
timelessthe ui team went for bare/clean, so my guess is they removed it because they didn't like it12:51
qwerty12_N810Heh :\12:52
* timeless accidentally swipes pgup12:52
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mgedminaugh! personal-ip-address.c assumes 4-space tabs13:00
RST38hwell, how is it unusual?13:01
RST38hA pass with sed and it is fixed though13:01
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mgedminwhat's the point of g_strdup_printf ("%s", line)?13:07
RST38hIt strdups.13:08
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: so um13:08
timeless_mbpcan you look into zenity for a bit?13:08
mgedminso why not g_strdup()?13:08
timeless_mbpi need a way to pass --parent-window=xid13:09
RST38hNo idea, the author was looking for fancier ways13:09
mgedminalso, this happens in a loop and reassigns the result to the same variable13:09
mgedminyay memleaks13:09
timeless_mbpmgedmin: nokia code? :)13:09
mgedminthankfully the loop is over a shell command output which is supposed to return exactly one line13:09
RST38hmgedmin: ok, so the guy probably came from Java world13:09
mgedminno, wait, I've overlooked something13:10
mgedminthe gchar* is passed to gtk_label_set_text inside the loop13:10
RST38hThat changes things13:10
mgedmindoes gtk_label own the reference?13:10
timeless_mbpdoubtful :)13:11
mgedminthings like these are why I program in Python and not C13:11
mgedminhehe if (g_strcasecmp (interface, "") != 0)13:11
timeless_mbpi'd expect the available contracts are <share> or <clone>13:11
timeless_mbpCASE cmp! wow13:11
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* timeless_mbp pokes Lynoure 13:12
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: anyway, can you look into zenity for me? :)13:13
timeless_mbpi really need to be able to force a parent window13:13
wazdpaintball is uber-cool13:13
RST38hmgedmin: gtk_label will take ownership and free it afaik13:13
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Maybe13:13
mgedminthen I think we have a double free bug13:14
crashanddie_wazd, i used to do competition paintball13:14
RST38hmgedmin: I would still check with gtk docs on gtk_label though13:14
wazdmy legs are covered with bruises but I'm overexcited :)13:14
RST38hmgedmin: these apis are a mess13:14
wazdcrashanddie_: oh, CTF? :)13:14
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mgedmindevhelp doesn't help much: "Sets the text within the GtkLabel widget. It overwrites any text that was there before."13:15
wazdcrashanddie_: we were playing simple TvT on different maps13:15
crashanddie_wazd, speedball ctf13:15
wazdcrashanddie_: wow, that's cool :)13:15
mgedminno, I'm certain that gtk_label_set_text doesn't free13:15
mgedminbecause then ... wait, I take it back13:15
wazdThe only thing I can complain is dirt. It was super-dirty13:15
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crashanddie_wazd, suck it up13:16
crashanddie_wazd, paintball is expensive and dirty13:16
wazdcrashanddie_: no, it was like extraordinary dirty :D13:16
wazdcrashanddie_: Normandy assault looks like jogging on a lawn near it :D13:17
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wazdcrashanddie_: all safe covers were giant puddles13:17
wazdhope to play it this winter or next summer13:18
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Lupucrashanddie_: Seems like you're right, the site is now working for me in FF.13:22
mgedminwhat's libhildondesktop1-dev?13:29
mgedminsomething from diablo, or does it exist in fremantle13:29
mgedminI ask because personal-ip-address build-depends on it, and I cannot install it in my scratchbox because of a nonexistent indirect libiphb0 dependency13:30
Stskeepsyou need to install token repo13:31
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mgedminoh, the nokia-binaries repo is not in my sources.list13:32
mgedminI thought the sdk installer script had added it13:32
mgedminwishlist: the repository names could be links to pages with a short description and the 'deb' and 'deb-src' lines13:33
* mgedmin unhappy13:34
RST38hthis is the least of that interface problems13:35
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chrittolatest liqbase presentation is very cool.
mgedminhow do I use a socks5 proxy with apt-get inside scratchbox?13:36
mgedminwaaah I want iptables13:37
* mgedmin cries13:37
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mgedminthe absolute symlinks scratchbox uses are unfriendly13:41
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mgedmincan somebody please package tsocks for fremantle?13:43
mgedminit's sunday and instead of using the free time for productively working on maemo people are sleeping or having a life offline, wtf?13:45
fralsor getting ready for the exam week coming up :(13:46
mgedminyay fixed personal-ip-address to work with peer-to-peer 3g links13:48
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mgedminnow to send a patch to fiferboy...13:48
timeless_mbp1252 gtk_label_set_text (GtkLabel    *label,13:48
timeless_mbp1253                     const gchar *str)13:48
timeless_mbp1259   gtk_label_set_label_internal (label, g_strdup (str ? str : ""));13:48
mgedminthank you, timeless_mbp!13:48
timeless_mbpthanks mxr13:49
mgedminwhat's fiferboy's email address?13:50
mgedminlet's look at debian/copyright ...13:50
mgedminUpstream Author: <put author(s) name and email here>13:50
RST38hhe is shy.13:50
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Stskeepsmgedmin: proxychains wouldn't be a bad one either13:51
timeless_mbpmgedmin: mxr is your friend :)13:51
mgedmin"This package was debianized by Andrew Olmsted" (email snipped)13:51
mgedminI hope that's him and not a copy & paste from some other package13:52
mgedminStskeeps: I'm not familiar with proxychains13:52
timeless_mbp is the starting point, is the intermediate13:52
mgedminsounds cool13:52
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mgedmintimeless_mbp: any plans for indexing fremantle?13:52
timeless_mbpmgedmin: yeah, but it requires me to spend time13:53
timeless_mbpwhich keeps running away from me13:53
mgedmind'oh!  personal gprs monitor is in but personal ip address isn't13:53
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mgedminwhat's the bzr equivalent of git-format-patch?13:57
mgedminsee, I used bzr because I know it better13:57
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mgedminouch, a screw and a washer just fell from under the table my laptop is on14:11
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mgedminI don't have an Allen wrench with me14:12
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mgedminwhat's with the disk space?14:24
mgedminis ubifs like jffs: eats up space on every change, then garbage-collects blocks in the background?14:25
mgedminI upgraded a small package (and had 2.7 megs left) and now I have 014:25
mgedminplus the package is 20.5k14:26
RST38husually it forces you to reboot and then garbage collects on startup :)14:26
RST38hSee this bug:
mgedmindon't wanna reboot14:28
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ShadowJKif you're running the program in question, the old files are still there for sure14:46
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mgedminfirst of all, it's 20 kb, second, when you upgrade a desktop applet it gets automatically reloaded, apparently14:47
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timeless_mbpwhich tends to cause crashes IME :)14:52
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v6saHey guys14:54
Lynouretimeless_mbp: hello14:54
v6saCan anyone point me to right place for Quake 3? :D14:54
v6saon N90014:55
timeless_mbpcan you figure out what's failing now? :)14:55
v6saI can't find any source of binaries14:55
v6sa*source OR binaries14:55
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Lynouretimeless_mbp: Haven't yet tried... But I could give it a shot.14:56
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konttori_q3 is already in extras-devel15:00
konttori_so, the source is there as well v6sa15:00
konttori_what isn't there afaik, is opengles1.115:00
mgedminmagic: I did nothing, free space is still 0, but dpkg --configure -a now succeeds15:02
mgedminbackground garbage collector theory got an argument in its favour15:02
mgedminwhat's a unix command-line tool to show the f_bfree field of statvfs (df shows f_bavail, i.e. blocks available for non-root)?15:03
mgedminstat -f /15:03
mgedminfree: 69315:04
v6sakkonttori_: I did apt-get install ioquake3 and copied q3demo files, I get segfault :S15:04
mgedminand now free: 88715:04
v6sakonttori_: I did apt-get install ioquake3 and copied q3demo files, I get segfault :S15:05
konttori_do you have the opengl drivers?15:06
v6sayeah QT4 opengl examples work15:06
konttori_but those use opengles2.0 afaik15:07
v6saso..? :D15:07
mgedminnow free: 786 -- it's shrinking again! wtf?15:09
mgedminokay, I need to go grab some food15:09
mgedminit's past lunchtime and I haven't had breakfast yet15:10
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v6sakonttori_: what else do I need to install?15:10
konttori_v6sa: having not tested that recently, I don't know.15:11
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RST38hheya zap, konttori15:21
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wazdkonttori_: hey konttori_15:24
wazdkonttori_: any new TM version? :)15:24
konttori_wazd: just testing it as we speak15:25
wazdkonttori_: there is a bug in wallpaper parsing15:25
wazdkonttori_: mediaplayer image looks wrong after parse15:26
konttori_ah, you mean it looks squeezed?15:27
wazdkonttori_: no, unfortunately qwerty12's shots are kinda disappeared so I can't show you15:28
wazdkonttori_: but it looks like it have top half from one image and bottom half from the other15:28
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konttori_oh, like that? hmm.. I'll take a look15:28
* RST38h moos at wazd15:28
wazdRST38h: heya15:29
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RST38hprobably cut it from somewhere else...15:29
konttori_ok, not anymore on the new one15:29
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konttori_ok, great, now media player, appmanager, clock backgrounds work as they should.15:30
wazdkonttori_: oh15:31
wazdkonttori_: the funny thing is that it's not TM's bug15:31
wazdkonttori_: it was on qwerty12's side, cause I just checked source files and they are ok15:31
konttori_yeah, it's related to that the bg size was wrong15:32
konttori_it needs to be 800x424. I corrected that now to the new version15:32
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konttori_anybody know how to get gst support for flv files? (on the device)15:32
wazdkonttori_: btw, have you added portrait_call.png to the template?15:32
konttori_hmm... I can do so now if you want15:33
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wazdkonttori_: well, I think it would be good to be able to change it too :)15:34
wazdkonttori_: another question: I've found /usr/share/themes/marina/opera folder. Are you hiding something? :D15:35
konttori_ok, added.15:36
konttori_opera folder is pure legacy that I just haven't gotten rid of yet15:36
konttori_if you take a look at it, it's full of crap only15:36
konttori_eh, the is the one full of crap.15:37
konttori_so, no, no opera in sight15:37
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konttori_anything else I should add? I would like to add the default avatar images, but I haven't found good default ones for the template15:39
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wazdkonttori_: is rtcom-messaging-ui has aany sense?15:40
konttori_I have no clue why that exists15:41
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Stskeepsrtcom-messaging-ui is the whole IM stuff? :P15:42
wazdkonttori_: and no color variable for Conversations U15:42
Stskeeps(i think)15:42
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wazdUI background15:42
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wazdStskeeps reports that it's white15:42
RST38hkonttori: do you know that there is a directory named cumulus in the / fs?15:43
RST38hand it comes with the clean firmware?15:43
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Stskeepswazd: how tall is the top bar in fremantle?15:45
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lopzhey ;)15:46
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wazdStskeeps: 56px15:48
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wazdkonttori_: and another question: is TaskSwitcherNotificationBackground.png used?15:50
wazdkonttori_: cause it's written in .psd file that it's not15:50
RST38h(shit, people, give wazd his N900 already :))15:55
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* ShadowJK is having way too much fun after his N810 battery became extremely worn/crap :-)15:58
ShadowJKjust exploring all the bugs/features in the charging system15:59
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ShadowJKwithout charger connected right now, battery voltage sits at about 3500mV, which is below the point at which tablet starts complaining about low battery15:59
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SpeedEvilyou mean when 'charged' ?16:00
ShadowJKWell... getting it charged is a challenge16:00
SpeedEvilnew bat from ebay.16:00
SpeedEvilproblem solved16:00
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ShadowJKWhen I connect charger, the entire 900mA from the charger gets dumped into the battery, this would be all fine and dandy with a fresh battery, but with this aged one, battery voltage climbs rapidly16:01
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RST38hfrom ebay?16:01
ShadowJKand reaches 4600mV in a few minutes, at which point bme does abort()16:01
RST38hwon't stay soled for long16:01
wazdRST38h: nobody have *mine* n900 :)16:01
ShadowJKin a non-RD-mode regular tablet this would make it reboot16:01
SpeedEvilRST38h: Personally, batteries from ebay work well for me.16:01
RST38hwazd: Actually, Forum Nokia dev program does16:02
ShadowJKI tried just making bme restart constantly... but I ended up with a frighteningly hot battery :)16:02
SpeedEvilEven genuine nokias aren't that much.
derfShadowJK: bme makes my N810's battery disturbingly hot all on its own.16:03
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ShadowJKI connected a very weak charger, 300-ish mA... this limits the voltage rise, and bme doesn't panic16:03
RST38hShadowJK: If you just stick a nail through it and then run, it will be way more fun than doing the same with bme =)16:03
ShadowJKderf, nah mine barely got hot at all as new16:03
derfWell, mine's not new.16:03
RST38hwazd: Just send your personal data for the discount.16:04
ShadowJKAs Lithium-Ion batteries age, the internal resistance increases.. with that comes more heat, and greater voltage sag16:04
derfI'm just saying, bme doesn't abort() for me.16:04
derfJust suddenly my pocket gets very warm.16:04
wazdRST38h: I already sent - no reply :)16:04
RST38hwazd: same here, will take a while judging from the previous experience16:05
ShadowJKyou charge it in your pocket? :-)16:05
derfNo, it happens both charging and discharging.16:05
ShadowJKanyway, "Closed switch voltage" or something like that in ftd is of interest16:05
derfBut only once it gets down fairly low.16:05
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zerojayI think has gone off the rails again.16:11
javispedrotmo? lol16:11
zerojayThe packages interface.16:12
RST38hWhat is about it?16:16
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RST38hjavispedro: ...UAE port...16:18
javispedrono interest from me... so low priority... :P16:19
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javispedrohi Firebird! did you get a SDL 1.3 sample app?16:20
zerojayRST38h: You know, it kind of surprised me when I found out who you were, by the way.16:20
javispedrozerojay: I was impressed when I noticed he was fms lol :)16:21
Firebirdjavispedro, yea16:22
javispedroand did it work in x86 sdk?16:22
zerojayWell, I didn't know him by fms... just as Marat, that guy that made iNES... probably the first emulator I used years and years ago.16:22
Firebirdjavispedro, I get the "no opengl on this system error" since my SDK doesn't have opengl/direct rendering16:23
javispedroFirebird: you get the gui up, don't you? then you have software rendering at least. it should work.16:23
javispedrolibGLESv2 lib calls libGL1 which tries to use GLX then falls back to Mesa (AFAIK)16:24
javispedro(in fact the x86 clutter calls libGL1 directly)16:24
javispedrocan you email me the test app?16:25
javispedroor the url where you get it from, if it's uploaded somewhere.16:25
FirebirdI'll pastebin the modified source(got it from a ported nehe tutorial)16:26
javispedroah, cool stuff.16:26
javispedroouch, extras-devel broken. I get file size mismatch.16:30
RST38hzerojay: And?16:30
RST38hjavispedro: Returning to that UAE topic... =)16:31
RST38hjavispedro: A lot of people seem to be preparing their lulz for the guy who makes a proper port ;)16:31
javispedrowell, there are various kinds of lulz to choose from :)16:31
javispedroi am personally interested in the n64 one, so I'm monitoring it.16:32
RST38hThese are good, real, old skool lulz =)16:32
RST38hN64 is probably going to be useless, both because of the performance and the software availability16:32
* javispedro didn't hear that LALALALA16:32
* RST38h would say Genesis/Megadrive and Amiga are the most realistic platforms to do at the moment16:33
RST38hARM-optimized emulators exist, software available, performance sufficient16:33
RST38hSpeedEvil: Spectrum is already done by myself =)16:33
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javispedroFirebird: can't get libsdl-1.3 from extras-devel (wrong file size) and can't build it from your source ("C compiler can't generate executables"?)16:34
SpeedEvilRST38h: Oh! :)16:34
SpeedEvilaccelerometer driven Pong?16:35
SpeedEvilWith bluetooth 2-player mode?16:35
javispedroFirebird: i see it's trying to pass arm specific optimizations for the x86 build (-mfpu=vfp)16:35
Firebirdjavispedro, dunno, it went through the autobuilder, and the deb I built here works...16:35
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RST38hSpeed: Accelerometer works in Speccy16:36
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RST38hSpeed: As to 2-player, it should work as long as you know each other's ip addresses16:36
javispedroouch. I see your sample uses ogles 1.116:36
zerojayRST38h: It was just a surprise that I would come across you again with Maemo, that's all. Really glad someone like you took an interest in it.16:36
RST38hah, thanks16:37
FirebirdI think the SDL ogles port is 1.1 also16:37
javispedroFirebird: ouch, then to test it I have to pull the ugly imagination sdk again16:37
Firebirdor someone on a device could test?16:38
Firebirdblarg, getting "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set" in the SDK16:38
javispedrorunning arm binaries in x85 target.16:38
Firebirdah right, forgot I recompiled them16:39
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javispedroouch, found out. I had vfp in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS.16:39
Firebirdhm, SDL 1.3 GLES is indeed 1.1 :/16:41
javispedrothat kinda sucks. are you sure there isn't a way to require a specific version drawable?16:41
Firebirdthough, there is code also for 2.0 in there O_o16:41
v6saHey guys is there any information how to reflash N900?16:41
Firebirdjavispedro, a 2.0 program could possibly work... I haven't read my opengles 2.0 book yet though16:43
javispedroa 2.0 program may need a specific bit in the surface options. I don't know if the powervr implementation requires it tho.16:43
Firebirdpandora supposedly uses opengles2.0 so maybe.. just maybe it will work?16:45
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javispedroFirebird: device has ogles 1.1 , so it will work.16:46
javispedro(I mean, apart from ogles 2.0)16:46
javispedrobut it would be interesting to know if you can just throw in ogles 2 calls in there.16:46
RST38hjavispedro: you mean 8085? =)16:47
javispedrolol, it existed.16:47
RST38hof course it did16:47
zerojayv6sa: You need the flasher program along with the firmware/emmc images.16:47
zerojayv6sa: flasher-3.5 -F [firmware image] -f16:48
zerojayv6sa: flasher-3.5 -F [emmc image] -f16:48
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v6sazerojay: Where can I get image for n900?16:49
Firebirdjavispedro, do you have the source of that red triangle ogl test?16:49
javispedroof course16:49
zerojayv6sa: From Nokia.16:49
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zerojayv6sa: The firmware images I have access to are individually encrypted and passworded. I'm not allowed to hand them out as far as I know.16:50
javispedroFirebird: specially look at ogl.c file16:50
v6saokay I see16:50
zerojayv6sa: And no firmware images have been made public. If you're having problems with your device and require reflashing, I would get a hold of Quim Gil.16:51
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v6sazerojay: What about repartitioning? My root partition is way too small16:55
zerojayv6sa: I've never done it.  I've never tried. I'm sure someone else here must have.16:55
Firebirdjavispedro, does ogl 1.1 use egl?16:56
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vladovghi all16:59
ShadowJKv6sa, root partition as in / ubifs?16:59
wazdohoh. Genesis please!17:01
ShadowJKv6sa, it can't be enlarged17:01
ShadowJKit's not part of the 32GByte emmc17:01
v6sabut how can I install more software then? :S17:02
RST38hThe Java thread finally went crazy17:02
* RST38h has been waiting for this moment: sooner or later it would join the MMS thread in craziness17:02
ShadowJKv6sa, well, there's a thread on tmo where qgil asked people who fill up their / to list the software they installed, so that we can complain to the people who made packages that use much space on / :)17:02
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v6saokay then17:03
v6sait would be okay to move /usr and mount from other partition?17:03
* wazd drools at the thoughts bout playing Road Rash on his good ol' n800 :)17:03
zerojayRST38h: The one and only reason I would want JME on an N900 is just to play the cell phone games my company made... other than that, Java - in all its forms - should be murdered.17:04
ShadowJKv6sa, might be, if the other partitions are available early enough in boot. wont work on vfat/fat32 partition though.17:04
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ShadowJKyou'd need to symlink stuff across and so on, too..17:04
v6sanot really17:04
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v6samount --bind helps :D17:04
v6sabut other question17:04
ShadowJKBut if nobody ever reports what packages use up space on / this problem is never going to get fixed :)17:04
v6sawhere are the phone numbers stored?17:04
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RST38hzerojay: I 100% agree17:06
RST38hwazd: You can do it right away17:06
RST38hwazd: Install MasterGear (MG) from Extras and get yourself an SMS or GG copy of RoadRash. Case closed.17:07
RST38hzerojay: See here: (fun starts at the top)17:08
zerojayYeah, I just got caught up.17:09
derfWhat astounds me even more is that a company filled with smart people like Google would base an entire phone OS on the language.17:09
RST38hderf: Not the whole company17:10
derfRST38h: I know not the whole company.17:10
RST38hderf: Google hates Java in general, it is one of the questions on their interview17:10
RST38hderf: "Which language you think we are NOT using on large scale?"17:10
javispedroGoogle != Android17:10
javispedroThey bough it half the way, remember.17:10
derfI know the whole company isn't smart people, too.17:10
RST38hderf: But the Android team came up with a coherent vision and java was part of it, so it is there17:10
RST38hAnd I know some very smart people who still believe in Java, or a limited subset of Java17:11
derfI know more than one person who was interested in Android, then found out it was Java, and immediately lost interest.17:11
mikhasgood for us. I hope they hate java for the right reasons though ...17:12
derfI mean, I believe in Java for certain things.17:12
wazdRST38h: it's more a matter of nostalgia, want exactly Road Rash 3 :)17:12
RST38hmikhas: Same as everyone else17:12
derfAn embedded system is not one of them.17:12
wazdRST38h: my first game ever :)17:13
RST38hmikhas: Resource hog, slow, not really portable even between secondary JVM versions17:13
RST38hwazd: Let me check17:13
derfJava is a good language to use when you have lots of mediocre programmers and don't care about performance.17:13
mikhaswell, I still want to see how the G1 gc performs on embed devices17:13
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RST38hderf: When you have a lot of mediocre programmers the good language is the one you write in their pink slips17:14
wazdbbl, have to give my sister some cash :)17:14
derfRST38h: Not in government contracting.17:14
RST38hderf: No, really. You can't sanely believe in getting away with mediocre employees17:15
derfLots of mediocre programmers == lots of billable hours.17:15
RST38hderf: That is different...17:15
derfGuess what language we use...17:15
RST38hwazd: I think I have RR3 for SMS17:15
RST38hderf: PL/I? =)17:15
RST38hOk, I have got RoadRash1 (but not 3) for both systes17:16
derfThe other place you see lots of Java is "enterprise" software.17:16
derfAnd it's probably not a bad match there, either.17:17
derfYou get mediocre programmers, because there the only ones who would be interested in most of the problems they have to solve, and it's cheaper to just buy beefier hardware than to let them use C.17:18
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RST38hderf: they can't progra in either17:19
RST38hc, java, who cares, they just can't program17:19
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RST38hfortunately, outside of j2me, java is going away, so let us rejoice17:19
derfI haven't used it for anything imporant in 3 or 4 years.17:20
derfIt's been great.17:20
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javispedroOf course Java is great.,17:20
RST38hNext goal: Get rid of XML!17:20
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javispedrohi lardman17:20
lardmanhi javispedro17:21
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Firebirdhurray, its finished,
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wndthat's nice17:27
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mikhasnewbie question: how do I replace the boot video?17:30
mikhascool, thanks!17:31
* RST38h once again wonders if Andre comes out with bogus reasons for wontfixing bugs on his own or whether he just relays information from someone else17:36
RST38hIt is Sunday, so that must be his own attempt at kicking people off:
javispedrogartner says maemo will have 4,5% market in 202117:37
javispedroer.. 201217:37
javispedro4.5% market .17:37
RST38hmarket of what?17:37
javispedroof "smartphone operating systems"17:37
GAN900_RST38h, :roll:17:38
RST38hwhat is the market share currently held by N95/N82/N97/etc?17:38
RST38hGAN: I am really tired of it, you know?17:38
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RST38hGAN: If he closes the bug, at least he should come up with a good enough reason. After all, *I* am trying to come up with the best bug description, right?17:38
GAN900RST38h, killing the messenger wont help.17:39
javispedroRST38h: what's the bug report for anyway? that's the behaviour I would expect.17:39
RST38hjavis: Well, consider this17:39
RST38hjavis: You are looking at the POP3 mailbox from Modest. You mark a few messages deleted and do Send&Receive. Messages go away from Modest.17:39
RST38hjavis: But next time you open Modest they still come up17:40
javispedrothat's the bug. modest should keep the msg ids.17:40
RST38hjavis: And, btw, if you try deleting them from the mailbox using some other means, Modest will hang and no longer show up-todate mailbox contents17:40
javispedroand not retrieve them again.17:40
timeless_mbpRST38h: so...17:40
RST38hjavis: The only reason why I have not mentioned it is because I was afraid of mr Klapper marking the bug "vague" :)17:40
timeless_mbpbugs against upstream apps should really be filed upstream17:40
RST38hwhat is "upstream app" here?17:41
timeless_mbpthey have a trac system somewhere17:41
timeless_mbpit's tinymail17:41
RST38hAs far as I am concerned it is a bug in Modest. As a user, I do not wanna know what upstream app Modest uses.17:42
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TechGeek2how can i enable RD mode in maemo 4 on the terminal?17:42
andre__RST38h, i don't think that mentioning *more* makes a bug *more* vague17:42
timeless_mbpthe moment you start speaking Protocols you aren't a user17:42
RST38hIn other words, you have done a little bit better than Andre with your wontfix reasoning, but still no doughnut17:42
timeless_mbpusers do not speak protocols17:42
timeless_mbppeople who speak protocols can find upstreams17:42
andre__RST38h, talking in third person is annoying17:43
andre__if you have an issue, i'm around17:43
RST38handre: Oh, believe me, really weird shit starts happening in the case described above. If I could pinpoint the exact nature of it I would mention it :(17:43
RST38handre: See the tracker.17:43
andre__and with regard to bogus: nope. i've been in gnome evolution for five years. i think i know the basics17:43
andre__pop3 is pop3.17:43
TechGeek2can someone please help me? I need to enable RD mode to do sudo gainroot17:43
timeless_mbpTechGeek2: you don't17:43
andre__TechGeek2, no, you do not.17:43
timeless_mbpinstall 'rootsh'17:43
andre__instead, install rootsh17:43
RST38handre: Well if I delete the message I expect it to be deleted. Otherwise, Modest should not allow me to delete messages.17:44
andre__RST38h, use imap.17:44
andre__or understand what pop is about.17:44
RST38handre: There is nothing preventing modest from doing DELE and then UPDATE on Send&Receive17:44
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timeless_mbpandre__: fwiw, technically, he's right17:44
RST38handre: I am using whatever I am given.17:44
timeless_mbpin practice, there's no way this will be fixed17:44
javispedrothe bug here is that modest should not delete POP3 message if set to keep msgs on server but shadow them.17:44
javispedrokeeping the ids.17:45
timeless_mbpand if he wants it to work, he needs to file it upstream17:45
javispedroversamail on my oldie palm did that.17:45
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TechGeek2aah thank you17:45
RST38handre: I do not need to know how protocol works to see that Modest does not operate properly, from user point of view17:45
andre__javispedro has the better wording :)17:45
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timeless_mbpandre__: i like how someone lied to you about how bookmarks work :)17:45
andre__RST38h, hmm. maybe i've been just using buggy implementations of this myself in the past and you are right :-/17:46
RST38handre: The only reason why I went and searched for POP3 RFC is to make a point.17:46
andre__timeless, heh. good to know :-P17:46
andre__RST38h, having that point in the initial report would have helped.17:46
konttori_ah, so, opengles1.0 should now be in extras devel17:46
timeless_mbpyou need to learn to never trust finns or ui designers :)17:46
javispedrokonttori_: omg! good news!17:46
javispedroFirebird: ping17:46
javispedro^^ read above17:46
javispedrokonttori_: hm.. you mean x86 extras?17:48
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konttori_eh, in arm extras17:48
TechGeek2how do I point dpkg -i to dokg something on the removable memory card?17:48
Firebirdthought there was already one in nokia-binaries17:48
javispedroyeah, me too.17:48
RST38handre: BTW, saying that it is not Nokia's fault also won't fly, as the problem has been observed in Modest. No user will know what that tinymail thing is.17:48
javispedrosorry, I though x86 extras :( :P17:48
timeless_mbpTechGeek2: err, why/17:48
timeless_mbprootsh is in the repositories17:49
timeless_mbp-i takes a path...17:49
RST38h(may I suggest actually fixing it rather than coming up with an excuse? :))17:49
TechGeek2i already got root - i'm trying to install somehitng17:49
timeless_mbpRST38h: asking a triager to fix a bug is rude and stupid17:49
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timeless_mbpif there are 10,000 bugs17:49
timeless_mbpasking one person to fix all of them ....17:49
javispedrowikipedia is plain more wrong every day.17:49
javispedroThe system has 256 MB of dedicated RAM (Mobile DDR) along with 768 MB of swap on a separate 768MB NAND area (not part of the 32GBs storrage)17:49
RST38hThe triager may at least bring the bug to the attention of the relevant developer, can't he?17:49
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RST38hIsn't this what triagers are supposed to do?17:50
andre__RST38h, i didn't say that yet i think :)17:50
timeless_mbpRST38h: no17:50
TechGeek2timeless_mbp if it do "dpkg -i filename" how can I get the filename to be a file on teh removable memory card17:50
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timeless_mbphe could try to bring it to the attention of the right team17:50
epa_anyone working on getting encfs for swap and userdata?17:50
timeless_mbpTechGeek2: -i takes a path, not a file17:50
konttori_javispedro: do you have a n900 now?17:50
RST38handre: Well, that was timeless' idea, he is more experienced in this kinda thing17:50
andre__ah. heh17:50
epa_well ok swap could be block crypted.17:50
javispedrokonttori_: been invited to the dev program, but not yet.17:50
TechGeek2ok then - what's the path to the removable memory card?17:51
konttori_ok, so you should get one soon then I suppose17:51
timeless_mbp TechGeek2 it's in /media/...17:51
timeless_mbpuse tab completion17:51
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TechGeek2ok I have a file on the card I want to dpkg. Would I use "dpkg /media/ libdtmx0.deb" to do it?17:52
timeless_mbp /media/ is a path to a directory17:52
* qwerty12_N810 laughs at the irony of the nick17:52
timeless_mbpdpkg wants a command argument first17:53
timeless_mbpand -i wants a path to a *file*17:53
javispedroI have this feeling he wants to "install to media card".17:53
javispedroTechGeek2: can you describe what do you want exactly?17:53
TechGeek2I want to install this
ShadowJKHm, even when charging at a very modest rate (250mA), my N810 is getting warm :/17:54
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ShadowJKThis battery is so f-d up :-)17:54
homeasvs__anyone know how I can force my n800 to rescan the media library ?17:54
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javispedrothen it's me the one who's wrong and timeless was right :)17:54
timeless_mbpi don't have to always be right17:54
timeless_mbpambiguity is hazardous to everyone17:55
timeless_mbpi'm just rarely wrong :)17:55
TechGeek2all i need is the directory of the media card17:55
konttori_homeasvs__: tracker-processes -r17:55
javispedroisn't it /media/mmc1/ like usual?17:56
konttori_then run tracker-status17:56
konttori_homeasvs__: on, n800. no clue17:56
TechGeek2jacispedro no that doesnt work17:56
b-man17TechGeek2: dpkg -i /medi/mmc1/libtdmxo.deb?17:57
homeasvs__konttori_, so those instructions were for what ?17:57
TechGeek2i'm currently entering "dpkg -i /media/mmc1/ libtmx0a.deb (i renamed the file)17:57
konttori_homeasvs__: for n90017:57
* b-man17 noticed his typo ><17:57
TechGeek2^there was a d in there17:58
javispedroso, do we have an official page explaining the n900 part layout I can use as a wikipedia ref?17:58
timeless_mbpTechGeek2: you don't want a space between the path and the file ...17:58
javispedroI am bit sick of people pointing to wikipedia which points to random wrong sources.17:58
timeless_mbpjavispedro: doubtful17:58
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b-man17TechGeek2: try dpkg -i /media/mmc1/libtdmxo.deb and if that doen´t work, try dpkg -i /media/mmc1/libtdmxo.deb17:59
* b-man17 needs some coffe17:59
RST38hjavispedro: good people point directly to Encyclopedia Dramatica but do not disclose that17:59
RST38hjavispedro: Provides for endless fun17:59
javispedroI'd prefer to point to another news page pointing to wikipedia.18:00
TechGeek2b-man i cant see the difference between the 218:00
javispedroendless loop fun.18:00
javispedroat this point, I could basically put up some weird acronym, like "N900 has MTIID" and get away with it.18:00
timeless_mbpsomeone could probably take df output and post it somewhere18:01
timeless_mbppreferably w/o the sizes18:01
timeless_mbpsince they're subject to change18:01
TechGeek2^ i found the error18:01
timeless_mbpfor more fun, one could explain autorun.inf and the .documents and Mac OS folders :)18:01
javispedroautorun.inf? lol18:02
TechGeek2yay it worked18:02
* javispedro puts up a template:citation needed for first time in his life18:02
TechGeek2it was on his website he wrote the filename as libdtmx0 and the filename was actually libdmtx018:02
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javispedronow that zerojay finally confessed you can't actually make video jingle calls using the N900 (being reserved for another sw upgrade), I wonder about the wikipedia "can be used to do video calls using Google Talk" factoid.18:08
RST38hIt is easier to google things than look for them on wikipedia18:09
javispedro"As the Nokia N900 has fewer hardware buttons.." compared to WHAT again? who writes those things.18:09
konttori_I think you can still see the other person if you make a gtalk call18:09
RST38hkonttori: Should we try?18:09
konttori_but when you try enabling your video, it dies. (as far as I remember)18:09
javispedroat, so it should be a high priority bug then :P18:09
konttori_only works between n810/n800 and n90018:09
RST38hYou got a camera in that Mac, didn't you?18:09
javispedrooh, that's good enough for me (same as n810 then)18:10
RST38hkonttori: So it won't work from a Max?18:10
javispedroRST38h: macs using a standard protocol? right over jobs colds fingers.18:10
konttori_anyway, video calls should come some time this year18:10
javispedro"Typical battery time for the N810 is around 4 hours"????18:11
javispedrowtf. I get 6 hours with processor at full speed.18:11
javispedrohow's typical going to be 4.18:11
lcuknormal users run mahjong - that thing is a battery killer :P18:12
javispedroworse thing is that quote nokiausa.com18:12
RST38hkonttori <-- just revealed upcoming SSU before the end of 200918:12
javispedroRST38h: "we" (since I consider myself a future n900 owner now) have been promised portrait browser too.18:13
RST38hjavis: 4 hours playing video is gonna be typical18:13
TechGeek2ok so I did the dpkg successfully (I ahve no idea what it did but it did something) and I used chmod a+x on the other file and it worked. what do i do now? it doesn't say in the forum18:13
RST38hjavis: Portrait browser is implemented18:13
konttori_portrait browsing works quite nicely already.18:13
RST38hjavis: Seen it in action18:13
javispedroah, good to know :)18:13
RST38hjavis: Just disabled in 41.1018:13
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konttori_it's only matter of when it's released.18:13
lcukdoes it still need ui including tho?18:13
RST38hActually, zoom-with-reflow is also implemented18:14
qwerty12_N810RST38h: "Disabled" or "Not present"?18:14
RST38hqwerty: disabled18:14
lcuklike the phone has the "auto/portrait" switch or something18:14
qwerty12_N810Good. I've got some spare time.18:14
RST38hCtrl+Shift+R should (theoretically) turn on zoom-with-reflow18:14
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RST38hthere is hope that this feature will be enabled via about:config, because the UI people protest its inclusion by default18:16
TechGeek2last question for me: how do I get permission to open a file from the terminal? I try opening it and it says Permission denied18:16
RST38hyou try opening what?18:16
TechGeek2the QR reader file that i made an executable18:17
RST38hah, you have to place it into partition that allows execution18:17
RST38hmv qreader /usr/bin for example18:17
TechGeek2does the internal memory card support execution?18:19
javispedrothe ext3 partition does.18:19
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javispedro(/home/user for example)18:19
javispedroMyDocs does not.18:19
TechGeek2ok I typed "mv /media/mmc1/mbarcode /usr/bin" and it cant find it. what am i m issing?18:20
javispedrois it already packaged?18:20
TechGeek2There were 2 files. I did dpkg -i to one. I did chmod a+x to mbarcode18:21
TechGeek2qwerty12 are you here?18:22
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RST38hTheGeek2: move mbarcode to /usr/bin18:27
RST38hthan run it18:27
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TechGeek2how do I move it?18:32
TechGeek2I typed "mv /media/mmc1/mbarcode /usr/bin" and it doesnt work18:32
RST38h[patiently] You type mv mbarcode /usr/bin18:32
RST38hwhat does i say?18:33
TechGeek2it says: cannot rename 'mbarcode':no such file or directory18:33
RST38hplease do "ls -l" and see if mbarcode is there18:34
ifreqlinux basics chan?:)18:34
* RST38h sighs18:34
javispedrothis is why Maemo is still not for the average Joe! </idiot> ;)18:35
TechGeek2i don't do linux i do xp - 7 computer help. there is no other mbarcode18:35
RST38hmbarcode is not, at least18:35
RST38hTechGeek2: Ok. Let us do it the traditional IT way18:35
TechGeek2i think you need to tell it where mbarcode is18:35
RST38hYou are in XTerm right?18:35
RST38hAnd this is what? N900?18:36
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RST38hPlease type "ls -l ~user" and see if you can find mbarcode there18:36
RST38h(press enter after you type that line)18:36
TechGeek2I typed it and nothing showed up, it just changed the default directory18:37
RST38hreally? it did?18:38
RST38hhow do you know which directory is default then?18:38
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TechGeek2it doesn't have ~ sh anymore18:38
RST38hOk. Could you please copy the output of the commands you type and paste it here: ?18:39
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RST38hthen give me the url18:40
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ifreqRST38h: i think you get best results from askjeeves.com18:41
* RST38h suspects so too, but he is bored and doing something else in the adjacent window18:41
TechGeek2how do i copy it?18:42
RST38hok, forget that18:42
TechGeek2i got it18:42
andre__for future reference, using http:// in front of a link on irc makes it clickable for me :)18:45
RST38hok I see18:45
javispedrome too.18:45
RST38hTechGeek2: Please hold Ctrl key and while holding it press C, then release C and Ctrl18:45
javispedrocan anyone provide me a screenshot of ovi maps with 3d buildings? I want to see what's the rendering depth.18:46
TechGeek2that doesn't do anything in terminal18:46
* zerojay looks at channel.18:46
TechGeek2it makes a new line18:46
RST38hGood. What is written on the new line?18:47
TechGeek2it's empty18:47
zerojayRST38h: You're teaching him how to port Android?18:47
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javispedroandroid? Xenix.18:48
RST38hzerojay: I am trying to figure out what he is doing. It is kinda like controlling a martian rover18:48
andre__javispedro, if you tell me how to get to such a view.... never seen it myself yet :)18:48
zerojayRST38h: lol18:48
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RST38hTechGeek2: All right, please type this:    ls -l /media/mmc118:48
javispedroandre__: it should theoretically do that in 3d views around big cities (barcelona, ...)18:48
RST38hTechGeek2: Then press enter and copy whatever you get to pastebin18:48
zerojayNYC for sure.18:49
TechGeek2i didn't get anything18:49
RST38h[lardman: Please, do insure that people you give barcode thingie to at least know how to do ls =)]18:49
javispedrobut (hopefully) more depth.18:49
TechGeek2i'll upload an image18:50
RST38hTechGeek2: Have you pressed enter key?18:50
RST38hand you got nothing?18:50
lbtanyone using N900 with asterisk?18:50
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RST38hTechGeek2: Ok, please type:  ls -l ~user/MyDocs18:51
RST38hPress enter key and tell me what you see or (better) copy output to pastebin18:51
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: I see nothing for London, except for how anal-retentive Ovi Maps is.18:52
TechGeek2i still get nothing18:52
javispedroqwerty12_N810: *sighs visibily* why I get excited about things...18:52
andre__qwerty12_N810, exactly18:52
RST38hAh wait, I know what is happening18:52
TechGeek2qwerty12 how did you get the barcode readoer on your n810?18:52
RST38hThis guy is not root. He can't execute mbarcode from /media/mmc* and he can't copy it to /usr/bin18:52
javispedroah, I see 3d buildings is a ovi maps 3 feature18:53
qwerty12_N810TechGeek2: I compiled it from source, on the tablet.18:53
RST38hAnyone knows if ~user is executable?18:53
RST38hAh ok18:53
RST38hTechgeek2: Please enter this:  "18:53
RST38hthen press enter18:53
TechGeek2i'll paste it into pastebin18:54
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RST38hVery good, we are back to $18:56
wazdI'm back, totally dry :)18:56
RST38hNow type this:     ls -l /media/mmc118:57
RST38hPress enter, tell me what it shows18:57
TechGeek2it shows A LOT of files18:57
RST38h(and I should remind myself never to enclose these lines in quotes or the user will start typing quotes)18:57
TechGeek2it shows the files on teh memory card18:57
RST38hIs mbarcode amount them?18:57
TechGeek2yes its there18:58
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RST38hNow type:     mv /media/mmc1/mbarcode ~user18:58
RST38hPress enter18:58
javispedroouch ovi maps fees are steep.18:59
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TechGeek2mv:cannot preserve ownership of home/user/mbarcode19:00
TechGeek2operation not pemitted19:00
RST38hit's ok19:00
javispedrono, it's not.19:01
TechGeek2do i need to gain root on this?19:01
RST38hall right, now type:   chmod ugo+rx ~user/mbarcode19:01
javispedroah, sorry, yes, it's ok.19:01
RST38hNo, do not become root yet.19:01
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javispedro(on n810 media/mmc1 uid gid is user:root19:01
RST38hit couldn't set ownership, no problemo there19:01
RST38hTechGeek2: Did chmod succeed?19:01
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lcukthe images for the tiled wallpapers are stored in .images, where is the config files for them19:03
javispedroin fact, you don't have to install the actual images in .images19:04
javispedrothe .desktop files have absolute paths to them19:04
javispedroand you can install them for example in /opt/maemo-backgrounds/19:04
lcukmmm i dont have backgrounds19:04
javispedrocreate it or install one of zerojay's packages19:04
* RST38h apparently killed TechGeek2's N810 with that chmod19:05
zerojayCreate it. The images program looks at /usr/share/backgrounds/ for .desktop files.19:05
zerojayThe nokia .deskop files are just sitting in .images.19:06
javispedroah, there are more shipped nokia backgrounds.19:07
javispedro(the SDK ones are all under /usr/share/themes)19:07
zerojayThemes and backgrounds are different.19:07
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zerojayThemes are much more all-encompassing.19:08
zerojayAnd before anyone asks, no, there is no way we've found to hide images used for backgrounds from being added to the users Images program by tracker. Even dotfiles are found and indexed.19:09
qwerty12_N810zerojay: Look at my wmlbrowser package for Diablo  if you want to see how to make the browser see a new extension without multiple restarts (for Diablo's MicroB, anyway).19:09
zerojayqwerty12_N810: I got it down to just close all currently open browser windows.19:10
zerojayThe REAL problem here is that only certain addons will work with Maemo Browser... and I can't tell exactly which or exactly why.19:10
qwerty12_N810Ah, cool.19:10
* qwerty12_N810 finds himself using Tear more and more19:11
zerojayOn N900?19:11
Stskeepscos the browser is still a nightmare, imho19:11
zerojayDunno... seems stable and fast to me. I don't think I ever was able to get Tear to even bring up one page without it crashing on me.19:12
qwerty12_N810I hit back and the browser wont show me the previous page without scrolling the page up and down, for one.19:12
zerojayqwerty12_N810: Scrolling the page up and down?19:12
greenflymain annoyimg thimg to me is the drop from full screen to show the url bar every time a page reloads19:12
* Stskeeps hates the back button on the new browser too19:12
zerojayI just use the back gesture. One less step.19:13
Stskeepshmm, maybe i should actually see the vido19:13
qwerty12_N810zerojay: Yep, using the kinetic to drag the page until it renders the previous page fully19:13
RST38hzerojay: /msg romaxa with questions about MicroB19:13
zerojaygreenfly: I don't consider showing the url bar a drop from fullscreen.19:13
qwerty12_N810And the fact that I can't edit URLs in the address bar is a major PITA19:13
javispedroI am going to kill you all19:13
qwerty12_N810+using the arrows19:13
javispedroandre__, qwerty12_N810:19:14
RST38hzerojay: If he is not busy, he should be able to help you19:14
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zerojayqwerty12_N810: I have no idea what you're talking about... weird.19:14
zerojayRST38h: He worked on Maemo browser for N900?19:14
RST38hzerojay: Yes.19:14
zerojayRST38h: Thanks.19:14
greenflyzerojay: when it resizes the browser and re-renders it, it's annoying19:15
javispedroso I guess 3d buildings will come with the paid subscription or something like that.19:15
zerojaygreenfly: I don't see that when the URL bar comes up.19:15
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: Fine, let's try with Helsinki. If I still can't see 3D buildings, Ovi Maps can go fuck itself.19:15
TechGeek2idk if chmod did anything19:15
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Stskeepsmaemo mapper++19:15
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greenflyzerojay: try a page that autorefreshes or try to use google reader19:15
lcukare ovi maps team based in .fi ?19:15
TechGeek2there was no error code19:15
javispedromaemo mapper...19:16
TechGeek2it just showed another line19:16
javispedroit would be fine for me if it was a more local app, like oziexplorer mobile.19:16
zerojaygreenfly: Okay.. I'm still not seeing it.19:16
qwerty12_N810Good to know: I'm 1820km from Helsinki.19:17
* javispedro remembers a garmin gps I had.19:17
javispedrothat used to position himself at Garmin H.Q. after soft reset19:18
javispedroBUT remembering the current destination if you had any.19:18
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greenflyzerojay: keep scrolling down19:18
javispedroso this is me in a classrom19:18
TechGeek2rst38h are you here19:18
zerojaygreenfly: scroll down until...?19:18
javispedroand suddenly the GPS boasts "Please go ahead 3560kilometers and then turn to the right" at full volume.19:18
greenflyzerojay: eventually it will reload and the url bar will appear19:18
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RST38hTechGeek2: Now type:     ~user/mbarcode19:19
zerojaygreenfly: On the mobile version of Google Reader?19:19
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RST38hTechGeek2: and press enter19:19
greenflyno regular afaik. url for mobile? ?19:20
TechGeek2cool it worked19:20
timelessnot reader/m/ ?19:23
RST38hYou owe about $45US, payable by PayPal19:23
TechGeek2whats your paypal?19:23
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Don't forget the bill for damage to your desk, caused by you banging your head on it.19:23
* timeless nods19:24
lcukthe accelerometer will detect how hard and automatically display the damages19:24
greenflytimeless: google says m. but that's not working for me either. anyway i want to use the regular version19:24
timelesswhat about pain and suffering?19:24
* javispedro considers patenting lcuk's idea19:24
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* lcuk hopes the patent certificate gives javispedro a nasty paper cut19:25
TechGeek2now i'm trying to put apple OS on it19:25
javispedroqwerty12_N810: so, did you see any 3d buildings or should I go to U.K. to retrieve the N900 you just threw out of the window?19:25
TechGeek2theres a guide and it's easy19:25
TechGeek2i just have to run 220 volts through it while the flash is on the card and its hacked19:25
lcuknahhh thats the hard way19:25
lcukjust ask steve jobs directly19:25
qwerty12_N810javispedro: I can't even see any in Helsinki, to tell you the truth.19:25
greenflytimeless: your way works, but ideally i could use the full version19:25
lcukhe emailed it to me last time19:25
pupnik_gah i need aseperate consciousness to folow this chan19:27
glass__in movies people rarely have good syncronastion between different consciousnesses19:28
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lcukthats because you can do a fuzzy wipe19:28
pupnik_do we have camera (video) exposed as a v4l2 device?19:28
* javispedro wonders if flash lite can use it then19:29
pupnik_is it raw or mpegged>?19:29
pupnik_want to show people stream from mn900 while in irc19:29
pupnik_one button and they get a link to device pasted in chan or pm19:29
BBNS_pupnik_, it's raw in YUY2.19:29
pupnik_im a dreamer, man19:29
pupnik_ok good enough fo a start19:30
pupnik_now if someone were to write a kernel mod to expose a HW-encoded mpeg4 stream19:30
pupnik_ok or tha19:30
lcukif hw encoding is supported it can be used19:30
BBNS_better try omap3camsrc rather than v4l2src, one has auto-exposure, the other does not.19:31
javispedrogst should use hw encoding19:31
lcukBBNS_, mmm19:31
javispedroi don't think the device itself is capable of encoding h264 at 800x48419:31
pupnik_ty for the pointers BBNS_ are you aware of existignn projects to do thiis?19:31
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lcukawww crap ive lost my device19:31
pupnik_lower res would be fine given peoples slow upstreams on DSL19:31
BBNS_lcuk, try gst-inspect you will see two cam source19:31
BBNS_pupnik_, what kind of proj?19:32
lcuk<lcuk> awww crap ive lost my device19:32
Stskeepslcuk: wtf, where? :P19:32
* javispedro plays with lcuk's lost device19:32
pupnik_to integrate "stream now" into maemo 5 somehow19:32
lcuksomewhere in my room19:32
javispedrowell, ring it.19:32
javispedroit's a phone isn't it19:32
pupnik_not sitting off on the side as somem funky toy app19:32
fralslcuk: this is when you ssh in and start playing a tune on it19:32
lcukive got one of them, but my dev one is MIA19:32
frals.. or call it like javispedro said, doh!19:32
BBNS_pupnik_, not sure. o_o19:32
lcukand its the one without charge, or sim19:32
BBNS_pupnik_, at least i did not aware any now. perhaps i might miss it.19:33
lcuki have one in front of me19:33
lcukthats on and working19:33
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qwerty12_N810The fugly one?19:33
lcukbut ahhh put it in its charging hole19:33
lcukjust without charger plugged in19:33
javispedrocharging hole lol19:33
SpeedEvillcuk: 'come and completely tidy my house, and if you find a n900, it's yours'.19:33
lcukjavispedro, i dont leave them on the desk19:34
lcukthe kids and missus have a nasty habit of dropping stuff ontop of things19:34
lcukso theres a little charging home for them :)19:34
lcuktracy once sat on the internet with elbows idly in the desk19:35
lcukshame my n810 was under one of her elbows19:35
BBNS_pupnik_, you can even have autofocus in omap3src by the way. i guess that's in photo interface ... couldn't recall -.-19:35
lcukBBNS_, lardman was looking for autofocus19:36
lcukthat info will be most useful for him19:36
BBNS_lcuk, he is hmm afk atm.19:36
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lcukyeah ill let him know19:36
lcukwe really need the whole interface documented at some point19:36
BBNS_lcuk, i did reverse engineering ... that's how i found the usage.19:37
lcukcool tho19:37
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lcukdo you notice any other differences with the v4l and omap319:38
SpeedEvilCan you do manual focus?19:38
BBNS_SpeedEvil, you can.19:38
BBNS_SpeedEvil, um sorry let me correct19:38
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lcuktilt/shift photo maker!19:38
BBNS_SpeedEvil, af has to be triggered by user space.19:38
lcukor whatever its called19:38
SpeedEvilBBNS_: you can do manual focus - or just turn AF off?19:38
BBNS_since af won't run all the time. otherwise the camera motor will break soon.19:39
BBNS_SpeedEvil, turn AF on and off.19:39
pupnik_Camera app needs to get UI out of the way while adjusting exposure/white balance - BADLY19:39
SpeedEvilBBNS_: it depends on the sort19:39
BBNS_SpeedEvil, but camera photo interface header has lots of things you could play thing19:39
pupnik_Do not dim the camera preview area.  Get butonns out of viewefield if possible.19:39
SpeedEvilBBNS_: many that I've seen have essentially infinite lifes.19:39
SpeedEvilBBNS_: for example solenoid based AF19:40
SpeedEvilbut, yes19:40
lcukwhere do i get gst-inspect from19:40
BBNS_SpeedEvil, perhaps you could write your own photo interface plug-in in gstreamer19:40
BBNS_SpeedEvil, not sure how you could do it. because it has to be done on TI chip side. the dsp part.19:41
SpeedEvilBBNS_: I'm more meaning - you're taking a video through a window with some rain on it forex.19:41
SpeedEvilBBNS_: you do not want it bouncing back and forth between focussing on the rain and the outside19:41
SpeedEvilSo manual would be nice19:42
BBNS_lcuk, sorry back to your question. there are many differences in v4l and omap3. one instance is that omap3 will stream camera through omap image processing chip.19:42
lcuk:) neat19:42
lcukis there a way to get the preview stream through to user apps do you think19:42
BBNS_SpeedEvil, you can only autofocus once. that's one trigger. it won't bounce back and forth.19:42
BBNS_lcuk, i think so.19:43
BBNS_lcuk, write a typical camera streaming program (one example is example-camera.c sample code). just replace v4l2src to omap3camsrc19:43
BBNS_lcuk, that's all you need to do. further application, such as advance photo interface, you have to dig through the headers.19:44
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BBNS_um ... i forgot how to check fremantle repos ... -.-19:45
BBNS_need to check the package name of photo interface...19:45
TechGeek2does this look ok?
lcukBBNS_, thanks im just seeing now if it makes a difference :)19:46
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BBNS_lcuk, you can point your device outside the window ... you will see the differences immediately.19:47
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BBNS_lcuk, it will do auto-exposure / whitebalance.19:47
lcukBBNS_, im interested in detecting targets19:47
lcukblack/white bullseyes19:47
lcukive got it working19:48
dotblankhmm.... any of you tried packet injection with the wifi?19:48
lcukbut focus is off19:48
BBNS_lcuk, like face detection you mean?19:48
lcukno, black/white targets19:48
BBNS_lcuk, you have written a algorithm for that?19:48
lcukits similar to barcode boundary detection19:48
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vasily_pupkinhelp plz :)19:49
SpeedEvillcuk: for wii-like?19:49
vasily_pupkinvery very need original cx3110x.ko right now19:49
BBNS_lcuk, i am checking the photo package that contains af now ...19:49
lcukages ago whilst talking to lardman, i made a simple detector for 1d barcodes which would identify the outer bounary and guardbars19:49
BBNS_lcuk, then you can just pull the header19:49
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lcuki didnt need the barcodes themselves, i just wanted to know whether one was infront of cam19:49
lcukusb charging of one of my devices is not enough juice to keep it alive19:50
vasily_pupkinanybody with n810 here?19:50
BBNS_lcuk, can i pull gst-plugins-bad from scratchbox?19:50
BBNS_*can you?19:50
lcukill try19:50
BBNS_lcuk, that's the one contains photo19:50
lcukonce im rebooted19:51
lcukhang on tho19:51
RST38hvasily: yes what?19:51
vasily_pupkinupload plz /lib/modules/current/cx3110x.ko somewhere19:52
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lcukBBNS_, i did this ages ago
vasily_pupkini replace original with supplicant one, and im  not at home19:52
BBNS_lcuk, ah nice.19:53
lcuki just adapted it to work with a proper bullseye target19:53
BBNS_lcuk, you are using opencv for thresholding?19:53
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lcukno, raw data and ints19:53
SpeedEvillcuk: 2d fft?19:53
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lcukits rapid19:53
BBNS_lcuk, probably you wanna try opencv. it offers better algorithm and easier.19:53
lcukjust "oh look, im on a greyscale portion of image19:54
lcukand theres a pair of white borders19:54
lcukwith grey inbetween19:54
lcukand then i stretch that data out to the 1d barcode length19:54
lcukand fill in the bits19:54
BBNS_i see. but in some cases, for instance the bg color is close to the barcode19:54
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BBNS_you will run into trouble.19:54
lcukoh, it normalizes to itself19:54
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lcukwithin the range it spreads19:55
SpeedEvilAnd barcodes can be non white19:55
lcuknot the ones i wanted to try19:55
lcuki just wanted to see the problems with it19:55
BBNS_but i found opencv is easier and it provides adaptive thresholding against different illumination.19:55
lcukit might be easier, but is it fast enough19:56
Stskeepson intel hw it is quite fast..19:56
BBNS_lcuk, if you check gst/camerabin19:56
lcukStskeeps, but we arent on intel hw19:56
BBNS_lcuk, that's the backend code for camera picture capturing ...19:56
BBNS_lcuk, and in some line of codes, it tells how to do af and various kinds of stuff ...19:56
lcukthats what lardman will need :)19:57
BBNS_lcuk, like different shutter mode / micro-range focus ...19:57
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SpeedEvilIs htere a flash?19:57
vasily_pupkinRST38h: ping19:57
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BBNS_lcuk, strange is maemo team did not document these things ...19:58
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BBNS_lcuk, when the code is sitting out there and has to let people dig them up.19:59
* lcuk nods19:59
lcuki think everyone was just rushed totally19:59
vasily_pupkinanybody have n810?20:00
BBNS_lcuk, true. nokia should hire a document engineer, just do documentation like Apple.20:01
lcukputting people with specific skills in the right place is mega important20:01
lcukfor everything in life20:01
BBNS_maemo team has lots of awesome hackers. =p but i guess they are too smart and don't need document.20:01
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javispedrothey are doing qt creator for maemo btw.20:02
javispedrojust noticed some references to it while wandering through qt creator source.20:03
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BBNS_javispedro, yep. the latest git head already added the code. haven't tested it.20:03
BBNS_javispedro, there is symbian too.20:03
javispedroyeah, but symbian got a beta released already.20:03
BBNS_i see.20:04
pupnik_yes vasily_pupkin many of us do20:04
BBNS_that's a good news for me. throwing away horrible carbide ...20:04
konttori_BBNS_: perhaps you could start a wiki page in and should aloud for the documentation on the mailinglist20:04
vasily_pupkinanybody,upload cx3110x.ko anywhere pleeeeze20:05
BBNS_konttori_, o.o you mean documentation proposal?20:05
lcukhell yeah!20:05
RurouniJonesPossibly a strange question but has anyone created a life-size printable layout of the N900 interface? I want to draw some application interface mockups while I am stuck on a train.20:06
BBNS_by the way, i have wondered who did the documentation for fremantle SDK on wiki? o.o20:06
pupnik_vasily_pupkin: if you have a license, it should be extractable from the maemo OS image provided by nokia20:06
pupnik_at least one would expect so20:07
lcukBBNS_, could not create pipeline elements for the omap3 source20:07
vasily_pupkinim not home now20:07
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konttori_i thought you were looking for camera documentation20:08
qwerty12_N810cx3110.ko can be shared without any legal repercussions (unlike umac.ko). I'd share it, but I have the wpa_supplicant one installed.20:08
lcukRurouniJones, are  you on n900 itself20:08
BBNS_lcuk, what's the error? :Q20:08
RurouniJoneslcuk: What do you mean? I do not have an N900 if that is what you are asking.20:08
lcukRurouniJones, on your n8x0 install liqbase :)20:09
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lcuki use it to draw interface stuff directly20:09
BBNS_konttori_, =P oh that's lcuk.20:09
RurouniJonesI do not have any Nxxx devices.20:09
lcukthen just draw pretty pictures20:10
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RurouniJonesYes...that is my plan, I was wondering if anyone before me had had the same idea and made some printable templates...20:10
BBNS_konttori_, i already pointed to lcuk the camera header. =P20:10
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BBNS_lcuk, 0.0 you need to give me the error message otherwise i couldn't help you debug.20:11
lcukhold on then, i dont do more than:20:11
lcukcamera_src   = gst_element_factory_make(VIDEO_SRC,          "camera_src");20:11
lcukcsp_filter   = gst_element_factory_make("ffmpegcolorspace", "csp_filter");20:11
lcukimage_sink   = gst_element_factory_make("fakesink",         "image_sink");20:11
lcukif(!(CAMpipeline && camera_src && csp_filter && image_sink))20:11
lcukliqapp_warnandcontinue(-1,"liqcamera : Couldn't create pipeline elements");20:11
lcukreturn -1;20:11
lcukooops too many20:11
lcukwith the omap3 SRC it fails20:11
BBNS_lcuk, so VIDEO_SRC is omap3camsrc ?20:12
lcukwith the v4l it works20:12
BBNS_hmmm let me check ...20:12
BBNS_crap -.- my code is at company ... let me try to conjure it ...20:13
GAN900andre__, ping?20:13
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lcuki have to go food for a little bit.  ill add some specific error checking to that when i get back20:14
BBNS_lcuk, oh it's omap3cam20:14
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BBNS_lcuk, not s/omap3camsrc/omap3cam20:15
BBNS_lcuk, replace omap3camsrc with omap3cam that is.20:15
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BBNS_lardman, lcuk said you need af code for camera?20:16
lardmanyeah if pos20:16
lardmanwhat have you dug up?20:16
Proteousup up down down left right left right a b b a20:16
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BBNS_lardman, check the conversation i have with lcuk.20:16
BBNS_lardman, just pull gst-plugins-bad20:16
BBNS_and look into camerabin ...20:17
lardmangst/camerabin ?20:17
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BBNS_that's camera capture backend.20:17
lardmanI need to split mbarcode to make some device-specific camera code20:17
BBNS_and check the photopart. grep autofocus20:17
lardmanok, thanks20:17
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BBNS_lardman, try to find <gst/interfaces/photography.h>20:19
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BBNS_lardman, i forgot which package has it.20:19
lardmannp, I was looking at it a few weeks back20:19
lardmanI'll find it again20:20
BBNS_lardman, nvm ... i can look up the code how i have written. simply tell you the answer to save you time.20:20
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BBNS_lardman, it's gst_photography_set_autofocus20:21
lardmancan you post the source, would be useful to see?20:21
BBNS_lardman, i am nokia employee ... can't give you the source. that's nokia code.20:21
BBNS_lardman, but this interface is nothing to do with NDA. you can dig it up in the pool. that's why i can tell you.20:22
GAN900I don't know how MicroB's text rendering could make zooming anymore useless.20:22
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BBNS_by the way, i am not in maemo team. i am from NRC. so i don't know what maemo team is doing. i hack the code by myself.20:23
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BBNS_the usage is gst_photography_set_autofocus(GST_PHOTOGRAPHY(cameraSrc), TRUE)20:24
lardmanBBNS_: np & thanks20:25
BBNS_lardman, if you want to hack more regarding to camera source by itself, i.e. omap3 image processing, gstreamer0.10-plugins-camera has the code.20:26
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lardmannot going to have time to do any image processing for a week or two, but certainly for the barcode stuff20:26
BBNS_barcode i recommend to use opencv to save you some energy.20:27
BBNS_it's portable on N900.20:27
lardmanyes looks cool, but for barcode stuff the code is already written so no need there20:27
BBNS_i see.20:27
lardmanbut for things like smile/blink recog, that would be interesting20:27
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BBNS_you can do detection and tracking.20:28
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Jason404Is it possible to run Symbian apps on Maemo?  I remember someone saying it was/will be possible?20:28
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BBNS_Jason404, if it's openC, yes. Not the one with Symbian UI.20:29
qwerty12_N810You probably heard it was possible from one of those blogs, whose sole purpose is to spread shit.20:29
lubomiris it possible to put debian or any other OS on the Nokia 770?20:29
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Stskeepslubomir: yes, it's open*20:30
* BBNS_ wonder what he is doing ... it's sunday! not enough hacking / coding during week days?! -.-20:30
lubomirStskeeps, have you a link to an example?20:31
Jason404BBNS: the reason I would really like to is that I hve heard that MS Office Mobile will be made for Symbian.  Being able to run Outlook and OneNote Mobile would be absolutely fantastic for me20:31
Stskeepslubomir: :P20:31
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StskeepsBBNS_: coding is addictive.20:31
Jason404as well as Word and Excel20:31
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javispedroJason404: MS Office Mobile? more like MS Office "Live" (aka web/shit edition)20:31
BBNS_Stskeeps, not if you are coding 10 hours every day every week ...20:31
Jason404no, javispedro.  see that link20:32
StskeepsBBNS_: well, 40 hours per week, but close enough :P20:32
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javispedroI'm pretty sure it will be web stuff.20:32
Jason404javispedro:  the web versions of Word and Excel are pretty good actully.  I just am not sure that they will run well on the N90020:33
SolarionBBNS_: well, that sucked20:33
Solarionugh. Stupid Cox20:33
Jason404no, read that link.20:33
lubomirah, Mer is working on it? Okay. Thanks Stskeeps .I just asked for someone else ^^20:33
lubomirbye @ all20:33
SolarionBBNS_: Hello, nokiite. :)20:33
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SolarionBBNS_: I had typed the "BBNS_:" right before Cox (my ISP) fell off the net.20:33
BBNS_lardman, would you mind documenting the camera or have someone to do it (lcuk) regarding to the camera API, once you have hacked it? =)20:33
BBNS_Solarion, i tried to remain low profile ...20:34
SolarionBBNS_: do you have anything to do with the cool scribble calculator or whatever it's called?20:34
SolarionBBNS_: Ah. Sorry. Hello, fellow hacker. :)20:34
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BBNS_Solarion, nope. that's the lab in Tampere i guess.20:34
BBNS_Solarion, my research is graphics and visions, and software achitecture.20:34
Solarionah, dang. Was woth a shot20:34
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SolarionBBNS_: Can the n900 handle a 1024x600 display?20:35
* Solarion is arguing with some monkeys on the Harmattan section about higher-res screens. :)20:35
Jason404Solaron: It can do 720p I think20:35
Jason404so shoudl be able to do that20:35
javispedroafaik tv out res is same as lcd: 800x48020:36
SolarionJason404: I mean if it had a larger res screen20:36
BBNS_Solarion, larger res means more pixel rendering overhead ...20:36
javispedroSolarion: the powervr handles up to 1024x768 iirc.20:36
* Solarion would like to see a higher-res screen in future devices, 'cause reading articles (PDF) on 800x480 is almost, but not quite, doable20:36
Solarionjavispedro: that's what the TI page was saying. I was about to show 'em when cox fell over20:37
BBNS_Solarion, if you want to render an OpenGL ES2 game smoothly, 800x480 is the maximum resolution.20:37
Jason404so tht means that it cannot display photos on TV at full res?20:38
SolarionBBNS_: on the n900?20:38
BBNS_regarding to PVR chip that is. Tegra can handle better though.20:38
Solarionwhat is Tegra?20:39
Jason404erm, not full res20:39
Jason404you know what I mean20:39
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SolarionBBNS_: isn't running OpenGL games more a matter of polys/s, tho?20:39
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Solarionnot just bandwidth20:39
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BBNS_Solarion, bandwidth > polys/s atm.20:39
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SolarionI suppose it's polys/s@res and I'm stupid.20:40
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SolarionBBNS_: at what res, tho?20:40
Solarionat 1024x780?20:40
Solarionor at 800x84020:40
luke-jrJason404: TV full res is 720x48020:40
SolarionIn addition, couldn't you change res for games if games are bandwidht limited but the rest of it isn't?20:40
BBNS_in a word, memory bandwidth is not fast enough to transfer 1024x780 pixels to video buffer.20:40
luke-jrJason404: so if the max is 800x480 you should be fine20:40
Solarionluke-jr: Not anymore. (DTV conversion :)20:41
SolarionBBNS_: on the n900?20:41
BBNS_Solarion, yep. not even iPhone can handle that.20:41
SolarionBBNS_: iPhone can hang itself20:41
Jason404luke-jr:  TV output res is 720x480???20:41
SolarionBBNS_: If I wanted silk-lined handcuffs, I'd use Windows.20:41
SolarionJason404: standard definition20:42
luke-jrJason404: NTSC20:42
SolarionI think that's DVD quality20:42
BBNS_Solarion, haven't used windows for a long long time.20:42
Solarionnow that we have the DTV transition, it goes up to 1080i20:42
luke-jrJason404: technically 720x240 @ 59.94 fps if you consider interlacing20:42
SolarionBBNS_: but the memory <-> GPU bandwidth on the omap3530 isn't sufficient to run 1024x780, depsite the TI literature20:43
Jason404oh ic.  PAL here20:43
luke-jrplease tell me DTV at least eliminated the NTSC/PAL differences20:43
BBNS_Solarion, that's what i am trying to talk about.20:43
BBNS_Solarion, anyway, the developers haven't juiced up OpenGL ES2 yet.20:44
lcukBBNS_, which area of imaging do you work in then20:44
BBNS_there is only one OpenGL ES2 game on iPhone 3GS, make me disappointed.20:44
luke-jrJason404: PAL is 720x57620:45
javispedrohow could one make a es2 game on iPhone? it would break apple's dream of "even the old phones get the updates"20:45
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BBNS_lcuk, tracking / object recognition / graphics and game development20:45
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BBNS_lcuk, but i am not as a good hacker as you. your library is amazing.20:45
Jason404luke-jr:  yeah I remember the differences from when I had an Amiga, and US games were all squashed up20:45
lcukhence you perking at me speaking of detecting bullseyes lol20:46
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BBNS_lcuk, our office really likes your onedotzero demo.20:46
lcukBBNS_, amazing in some ways, they need picking into normal usage20:46
BBNS_lcuk, true. that's what nokia trying to steer community to do. to produce more useful apps for mass market.20:47
lcukwell the n900 side of onedotzero was just opitimization and communication, karsten did the really hard work on big pc20:47
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konttori_javispedro: you know, most of the n900:s will not have arrow keys20:47
Solarionwhat is onedotzeo?20:47
BBNS_lcuk, it's already amazing enough. very smooth experience.20:48
konttori_so, the only viable control scheme is WASD20:48
javispedrokonttori_: yes, I know.20:48
javispedrowasd is awful for mario kart20:48
konttori_do you think the ab,xy keys could then be IOKL?20:48
lcukBBNS_, yeah - liqflow was why i optimized that side of it ;)20:48
BBNS_lcuk, here is my research profile if you are interested:
konttori_javispedro: is wasd any worse than the arrow keys?20:49
javispedrokonttori_: nope. just worse than the n810 d-pad :(20:49
BBNS_lcuk, you used neon?20:49
lcukno bbns, raw c20:49
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konttori_well, n810s dpad sucked ass.20:49
lcukjust optimal and slinky20:49
BBNS_lcuk, i see. wonder when gcc will fully utilize neon.20:50
konttori_but, then how about the IOKL`20:50
konttori_I'm wondering if the wasd setup should just be the default setup for the drnoksnes?20:50
lcukBBNS_, i put my missing summit presentation up online20:50
javispedrokonttori_: on n900 probably.20:50
lcukit gives a runthrough of some of the things20:50
lcuki had to chop out loads tho20:50
javispedroto change it I need the SDL scancodes for each of the keys though.20:50
lcukBBNS_, do you have a linkedin20:51
RST38hBBNS: you want 1q2009 toolchain20:51
RST38hit should make use of neon, don't know how well20:51
javispedroand -fvectorize20:51
BBNS_RST38h, i know 1q2009 has OPENMP supported  =) can't wait to replace that.20:51
BBNS_lcuk, nice presentation.20:51
lcukfound it20:51
RST38hjavis: what is -fvectorize btw? =)20:51
BBNS_lcuk, yep. i do. just typed my name.20:52
lcukBBNS_, heh, its too simple - but it loads the presentation files from vb source directly20:52
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lcukand whilst giving the presentation i can breakout into actual liq* modules20:52
lardmanBBNS_: the camera api is not too bad actually, the devel docs have it pretty well done. Or do you mean the camerabin api?20:52
lcukthe paging is wonderful tho :)20:52
BBNS_lardman, i mean the wiki page still telling people to use v4l2src =P20:53
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BBNS_lardman, which should be omap3cam. and it hasn't mentioned how you could do with some advance functions, such as af and whilte-balance...etc20:53
konttori_javispedro: aren't the scancodes just wasd and iokl?20:53
lcukbbl again20:53
lardmanBBNS_: ok, yeah sure20:53
Jason404so Symbian apps on Maemo is not possible, and never will be?20:54
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StskeepsJason404: technically you can emulate but i can't see why you20:54
Stskeepsd want to20:54
BBNS_Jason404, if it is written in Qt / OpenC, that's possible.20:54
Stskeepsqt would work, yeah20:54
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javispedrowith a recompile.20:54
Jason404I am only concerned about MS Office Mobile.  It would be wonderful20:55
javispedrowhich means, in actual terms, No.20:55
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javispedrosince most Symbian apps you'd be interested in would be closed source either way.20:55
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Jason404yeh, MS Office mOBILE CERTAINLY WILL BE20:55
RST38hjavispedro: so what does fvectorize do?20:55
BBNS_lardman, thanks for the community effort =P20:55
RST38hmoo wazd20:55
wazd_RST38h: remoo :)20:56
javispedroRST38h: add an autovectorization pass.20:56
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RST38hjavis: no I mean in terms understandable to us, the cows?20:56
lardmanBBNS_: got to remember how to spell now ;p20:56
lardmanjavispedro: vectorise integer operations?20:56
javispedroRST38h: cows like me? lol.20:57
RST38hlike compute several integer operators at once using those mmx-like instructions?20:57
javispedroaka try to convert for loops into equivalent simd instructions, if any.20:57
Solarionwish I could afford an n900. :(20:59
Solariondoes the n900 have an fpu?20:59
BBNS_Solarion, fpu v3-lite21:00
Solarionwhat is v3-lite?21:00
crashanddieversion 3, light21:00
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Solarionso it doesn't use electrons?21:00
javispedrowhich according to certain pandora benchmarks is nearly as slow as the omap2420 vfp.21:00
javispedroso use neon.21:01
lardman2420 is faster iirc21:01
javispedroprobably, but the 32xx is clocked up21:01
RST38hOMAP3 VFP is mainly slapped there for compatibility =)21:02
javispedrofor any hope of floating point performance you have to use single precision and neon.21:02
RST38hThey really intend you to use the Neon21:02
lardmanis slow, should look at neon for libdmtx I think21:02
javispedromuch like what they did to Jazelle, damn.21:02
BBNS_you can use neon with gcc instrinsics.21:02
lardmanjavispedro: no-one is very interested in that anymore, was cool to hack on though :)21:03
Stskeepslcuk: awkward question, but did you use 320x480 or something resolution on Xv at some point?21:03
* Stskeeps wonders if he can make his Xomap run at lower res21:03
konttori_wazd_: New version of theme maker uploaded.
javispedrolardman: yeah, did you see what they did with it in omap3?21:04
lardmanno, not looked21:04
javispedrobasically, "Jazelle Lite": bxj r12 goes always to ins pointed by r12.21:04
javispedrono implementation of any java opcode at all.21:05
lardmanah, but that means you can implement a different bytecode doesn't it?21:05
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lardmanor does it do away with the unknown code handler table?21:05
javispedroit will call your table for each opcode.21:05
lardmanok, so slower, but you can make your own21:06
javispedroyeah, but no accelartion21:06
lardmanwould be good for any p-code lang21:06
javispedroit's just a supposedly fast dispatch instruction (and I doubt the fast part)21:06
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javispedrobasically, as RST38h, the only thing that's for is so the Sun EJVM doesn't crash.21:07
javispedro*as rst said.21:08
lardmanwell is probably a bit faster than having to manually switch, but marginal I guess21:08
wazd_konttori_: awesome!21:08
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lardmanwas going out of fashion anyway though, I heard jit was faster anyway21:10
lardmanfrom somewhere, who knows where21:11
lardmansupper, bbiab21:11
RST38hjazelle was said to give about x3 performance wi over interpreted model21:11
BBNS_lcuk, let me know if omap3cam works on your code.21:12
javispedroand it gave a bit better results indeed.21:12
javispedrobut any jit I tried was better, and the memory savings isn't worth fighting for21:12
* BBNS_ afk21:12
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lcukStskeeps, why is that awkward?21:17
lcukxv runs at any resolution and scales dynamically to fullscreen21:18
lcukusing hardware21:18
lcukyou goin for iphone emu?21:18
lcuknote tho, xv color planes are at half res21:18
lcukso if you make a screen 480*320  you would only get color at 240*16021:19
Stskeepslcuk: nah.. android refugees21:19
lcukwell liqbase is similar to android in that respect21:19
lcukit lives in its own app framework lol21:20
lcukaway from x1121:20
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netBossHi every one21:20
netBossI'm new in the community21:20
netBossAnd I use Ubuntu21:21
netBossIs there an Emulator to make Maemo work21:21
Stskeepsget the maemo SDK21:21
lcukthe maemo 5 sdk allows you to create and build and test things21:21
netBossI saw that21:22
netBossBut is there the hole sytem packed21:22
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netBossin a ISO or else21:22
Stskeepsyes, quite a lot of stuff in it21:22
Stskeepsthere's a VM21:22
netBossI see, thanks21:22
netBossIt's a great system21:22
netBossI like it21:22
RST38hOpenVMS strikes back.21:23
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netBossI'm hopping to contrebute in it :)21:23
BBNS_lcuk, hey, is omap3cam works for you?21:23
lcukBBNS_, no, i tried and got the same result ill add the reason checking in a min21:23
lcukjust waiting for lemon cake lol21:23
BBNS_lcuk, it's 'omap3cam' not 'omap3camsrc'.21:23
lcuk/ BBNS from #maemo irc offered this suggestion21:24
lcuk/#define VIDEO_SRC  "omap3camsrc"21:24
lcuk#define VIDEO_SRC  "omap3cam"21:24
lcukdamn those double slashes lol21:24
javispedronetBoss: if you want to experience the UI from a user point of view best way is to test a device though.21:24
BBNS_lcuk, mmm should work ...21:24
lcuki tried it on my old one and also on later one21:25
lcukis it a recent recent addition21:25
lcukim a couple of weeks behind21:25
BBNS_lcuk, very old addition21:25
caoticMHi, my n810 is having some trubles with the touchscreen. basically the 'pointer' goes apesh*t in certain areas of the screen. Is there an application that can help me detect this areas. a-gps helps a little but if i could graph a dot where the device actually detects the preasure ?21:25
BBNS_lcuk, i wrote the code like half a year back.21:25
lcuklemme try and get gst-inspect on21:26
BBNS_lcuk, oh sorry21:26
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BBNS_lcuk, i made a mistake21:26
BBNS_lcuk, here is code snippest21:26
netBossjavispedro, I'm going to bay the N900, and befor that I must test the system,21:27
BBNS_m_pCamSrc = gst_element_factory_make("v4l2camsrc", "camera_src");21:28
lcukcaotic, check the gutter around the edge of the screen for any grit or dirt, and check for any scratches around21:28
lcukyou mightv damaged your screen if its seriously errative21:28
netBosscause if he isn't good ( and he is greater that I thoght ) I'll install Ubuntu Mobile Edition21:28
javispedronetBoss: if you're a dev then you will understand what the SDK is and what their limitations are. if you're a user then you'll be deceived.21:28
lcukjust try opening sketch app and drawing a grid21:28
BBNS_g_object_set(G_OBJECT(m_pCamSrc), "driver-name", "omap3cam", NULL);21:28
lcukthen upload the grid as a pic21:28
StskeepsnetBoss: maemo5 > ubuntu mobile edition, tbh :P21:28
netBossjavispedro, I'm a developper21:28
BBNS_lcuk, so you need to set the driver name. =P omap3cam is not the gstreamer source.21:29
javispedronetBoss: ok, then. good luck :)21:29
BBNS_lcuk, you can check the source in gstreamer0.10-plugins-camera.21:29
javispedro(just that I shrug at the idea of users "testing" the N900 on the sbox sdk, with the blue colors bug, software rendering, etc.)21:29
BBNS_lcuk, you got the full picture?21:30
caoticMlcuk: the annomallies are near the close buttons and the buttom center of the screen. the drawing app has interface elements (close button, and drawing tools) so i cannot draw over them21:30
lbtjeremiah: ping21:31
lcuknot really BBNS_ im just grabbing the gst plugins camera now21:31
lcukand will have a look21:31
BBNS_lcuk, replace your code like this:21:31
BBNS_#define VIDEO_SRC  "v4l2camsrc"21:32
RST38hjavis: Wait until someone writes a review based on that21:32
BBNS_and add one line: g_object_set(G_OBJECT(camera_src), "driver-name", "omap3cam", NULL);21:32
javispedroRST38h: i am having nightmares already.21:32
BBNS_camera_src   = gst_element_factory_make(VIDEO_SRC,          "camera_src");  g_object_set(G_OBJECT(camera_src), "driver-name", "omap3cam", NULL);21:33
BBNS_that's all.21:33
BBNS_got it?21:33
lcukyeah just testing now thx21:34
BBNS_=P you can do more funny stuff with omap3cam ... gst-plugins-camera has all source of the driver i think.21:35
konttori_wazd_: whatte! cool, seems to also work in linux (1.2.4 of theme maker I mean), with a bit of a trick.21:36
konttori_the vm allocation I had set was not enough to actually run some of the post processing commands, so once you make a theme with theme maker, you need close it again and reopen and then click on the make debian21:37
konttori_in next version, I'll tune the shell script to have big enough mem allocation21:37
* timeless_mbp looks around21:39
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Solarionwonder if cox is done sucking yet21:41
qwerty12_N810In Soviet Russia, Cox sucks you21:41
javispedroAre software developers naturally weird? The answer, a few posts above this one.21:42
SolarionqaaMaigc 8 Ball says no.21:44
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BBNS_lcuk, =P does it compile?21:45
lcukthat part compiles and shows cam as the original one did, im just wondering whether AF should be operation21:46
BBNS_lcuk, af is not in operation unless you call the function21:47
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BBNS_gst_photography_set_autofocus(GST_PHOTOGRAPHY(camera_src), TRUE)21:47
lcukahh so opening it with the v4l, changing the driver, then enabling the fn cool21:48
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BBNS_otherwise by default the focus will set to infinity. to save battery.21:48
BBNS_lcuk, yep. correct21:48
Krooksis Nokia dumping symbian for maemo ?21:48
KrooksWill they do that ?21:48
BBNS_Krooks, nope.21:49
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lcukseems highly unlikely21:49
Krooksbut if maemo can do all that symbian can do, then why not ?21:49
javispedrobecause, at least for the moment, maemo can't do all that symbian can do.21:51
lcukbecause common sense say you dont just abandon user base21:51
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BBNS_Krooks, at some circumstances, especially developing country like Africa, Symbian is better.21:51
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BBNS_or rural area that is.21:52
lardmanhmm, thanks BBNS_21:53
BBNS_lardman, it works?21:53
wazd_can anybody please download this file and send it to me? :)
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wazdCause df tells me that I'm already downloading it21:53
lardmandunno yet, am working on map app, will go and test in a bit21:54
lardmanat least it appears I don't need to change the current pipeline too much, just add in a few extra lines that I can hide with an #ifdef21:54
qwerty12_N810wazd: What's your e-mail?21:54
BBNS_lardman, ah ok. you could find me @ talk anyway.21:54
BBNS_lardman, nope. you don't need to change at all. just change the driver-name.21:54
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wazdqwerty12_N810: drew.zhilin@gmail.com21:55
konttori_Krooks: symbian is also running better on lower specced devices than maemo21:55
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wazdkonttori_: downloading it right now!21:55
lcukkonttori_, has anyone tried to run symbian on n900 hardware?21:56
lardmanBBNS_: good stuff, well I'm on Talk and generally on here every day too21:56
lardmanwill try to test that later this evening21:56
Krookskonttori_: I see.21:56
konttori_lcuk: I haven't heard21:57
Krookskonttori_: doesn't look like maemo will scale down even further ?21:57
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konttori_well, omap 2 maemo 4 was running pretty ok21:57
lcukit would be good to find out how to run fremantle on lower spec hardware21:57
lcukor rather lower res21:57
konttori_but the way we are looking on maemo 6, really expects quite a lot from hw21:57
lcuki dont see why21:58
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BBNS_wonder if you could write modules for camera apps, so that you could edit your photo right away.21:58
lcukthe previews at the summit, coupled with the simplified qt reboot should allow things to run better, not worse21:58
BBNS_like change the saturation etc21:58
lcukBBNS_, content cocreation, live editing section21:58
lcukwe spoke extensively about it at the summit21:59
* lcuk finds link for you21:59
lcukthats a bit on the results22:00
BBNS_lcuk, thanks. that would be really nice!22:00
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BBNS_lcuk, you guys doen really amazing concepts.22:01
lcukyeah BBNS_ and that was just the final boiled down results22:01
lcukwe spoke about some awesome concepts22:01
lcukthe (near)live editing is something ive heard lots of people say22:02
lcuklike last night, i had a video that was 10:01 - 1 second too long for youtube22:02
lcukif i could have cut/splice on the device i wouldv just extracted the bit i wanted22:02
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lcukinstead i had to dig up software and do the post processing on the pc22:02
tigertyoutube should just truncate those22:03
lcuksomething i couldv done in the taxi22:03
BBNS_i think there is no technical boundary will stop you from doing so on maemo.22:03
lcuktigert, i had already shortened it from a 15minute one22:03
BBNS_just need time to write code. =P22:03
tigertbut yeah, a video editor would be sweet22:03
lcuki missed off all the stuff about the playground and global search and stuff22:03
tigertnow, a good UI for that would be interesting22:03
lcuktigert, the graffiti wall in liqbase22:04
lcukshow a video as loads of frames22:04
lcukallow start/end to be marked22:04
lcuksave the middle bit as a new file22:04
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vasily_pupkinanybody know, where can I get original source for cx3110x?22:07
* lcuk cant get camera stuff building - ill look back when i get on *spit* scratchbox22:08
guysoft42hi all, can someone tell me how to download in sb2 the maemo kernel headers?22:08
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luke-jrvasily_pupkin: you mean like, not working with normal apps?22:09
BBNS_lcuk, if someone implemented the concept, please tell me =P i am doing to buy his/her stock!22:09
lcukBBNS_, :)22:09
florianhi all22:09
BBNS_lcuk, um, what do you mean can't get camera stuff building? o.o22:09
lcuki do everythign on device for now22:09
BBNS_lcuk, missing libraries or headers?22:09
lcukuntil the standard toolkit can be worked from windows22:09
qwerty12_N810wazd: Sorry, still uploading...22:10
BBNS_lcuk, error message? o.o22:10
wazdqwerty12_N810: np :)22:10
lcukBBNS_, its a silly thing right now, i cant find the header22:10
wazdqwerty12_N810: ta :)22:10
BBNS_lcuk, ah ... let me see22:10
* BBNS_ looking for his cmake file22:11
BBNS_lcuk, you have pkg-config installed?22:12
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BBNS_you need gstinterfaces-0.10 / gstphotography-0.10 / gstbase-0.1022:12
vasily_pupkinluke-jr: that sucks, but wpa_supplicant patched cx not worked with wlancond O_o22:13
BBNS_the header should be located within /usr/include/gstreamer-0.10 though22:13
* lcuk nods22:13
lcuki got it compiling22:13
lcukhold on tho22:13
lcukgotta add lib to other dev22:13
javispedrovasily_pupkin: seen my cx3110x patch?22:14
vasily_pupkinjavispedro: no22:14
Stskeepsjavispedro: what is different to your patch btw?22:14
javispedrosince I cannot modify nokia bins to speak the "wrong" protocol I modified both cx3110x and wpa_supplicant to speak the wrong protocol.22:15
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vasily_pupkinwow (=22:15
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lcukoh crap!22:15
lcukit wants to install about 200 packages22:15
vasily_pupkinmay be better be writing icd plugin for wpa_supplicant?22:16
lcukjust for gstreamer0.10-plugins-camera22:16
lcuki think ill just wait for a little while lol22:16
BBNS_lol ... get a vmware dude!22:16
javispedrovasily_pupkin: git clone then get patches/cx3110x and patches/wpa_supplicant22:16
lcuki did at first22:16
BBNS_don't kill yourself and your n900.22:16
lcukbut vmware doesnt like my mouse acceleration22:16
BBNS_ahh ...22:16
BBNS_then just like me ... don't use windows. =P22:16
vasily_pupkinjavispedro: thanks22:17
lcuknormally not an issue22:17
vasily_pupkinbut seems like original drivers not work for me for now :]22:17
vasily_pupkinholy crap22:17
vasily_pupkini want to kill wlancond developers :]22:17
javispedrowlancond is open22:18
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, hey, here?22:18
BBNS_lcuk, i think my team member pretty much ditched windows already. =P22:18
qwerty12_N810guysoft42: Hiya22:18
javispedroStskeeps: did that answer your question?22:18
lcuklol BBNS_ i have linux on the laptop22:19
lcukbut it doesnt easily run the one tool i still use22:19
Stskeepsjavispedro: thanks22:19
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, yay, you just activated my cool new gadget:
BBNS_lcuk, perhaps write one yourself. j/k =P22:19
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, i want to make it work with mameo, but i need the kernel headers first. do you know where i can get them?22:19
lcukBBNS_ lol22:20
javispedroStskeeps: in case you're interesed in the details diff the orig cx3110x patch and mine's, iiirc (that was 9 monts ago!) it was just a stupid issue.22:20
lcuki almost did at the summit22:20
vasily_pupkinjavispedro: what libicd-wpa do?22:20
vasily_pupkinjavispedro: is this wpa_supplicant icd plugin?22:20
javispedrovasily_pupkin: yes22:20
lcuki couldnt get vb working (to create the layouts for the presentation)(22:20
lcukso i had to improvise22:21
vasily_pupkinwow. cool! (=22:21
qwerty12_N810guysoft42: AFAIK, the headers should be installed with the SDK by default, but don't quote me on that; it's been a good few months before I looked at any kernel stuff22:21
vasily_pupkinjavispedro: it use config in gconf or /etc/wpa_supplicant?22:21
javispedrofull name is libicd-network-wpa, but g arage didn't like such a long name ;)22:21
javispedrovasily_pupkin: gconf22:21
lcukand BBNS_ i draw interfaces all the time, its not that big a jump to save them as source instead of saving them as sketch22:21
javispedrovasily_pupkin: but it uses a trivial mapping between gconf<->wpa_supplicant.conf settings22:21
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, i need the .config file22:21
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, so i can compile the kernel, at the moment it gives me errors22:22
vasily_pupkinok. let's try22:22
javispedroyou don't have to use libicd-wpa to get the patches.22:22
BBNS_lcuk, you reminds my whiteboard ...22:22
BBNS_has been over abused.22:22
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qwerty12_N810guysoft42: That should be apt-get source kernel-source-diablo and make nokia_2420_defconfig22:23
vasily_pupkinjavispedro: i just want use icd and wpa_supplicant :)22:23
BBNS_lcuk, or perhaps virtualbox would work. not sure.22:24
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, but i want to edit that .config file22:24
qwerty12_N810So, edit it? :)22:24
lcukBBNS_, im actually happy working on arm itself22:25
guysoft42guy@golem3:~/mydocuments/devel/maemo/kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source$ make nokia_2420_defconfig scripts/kconfig/conf: scripts/kconfig/conf: cannot execute binary file22:25
BBNS_i see. =P hardcore! /bow22:25
lcukit removes the brainfunk of system inside system inside system22:25
lcuknahhh native compilation22:25
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, um, we have a problem22:25
lcukmer will have full complete workable build toolchain22:25
qwerty12_N810guysoft42: You are doing this inside scratchbox, right?22:26
guysoft42qwerty12_N810, hell, i am a moron22:26
lcukBBNS_, besides - me pushing for this has to be benecifial - if a dev can walk upto maemo and without anything major on their desktop end can have a full build system available22:26
lcukits gotta be good22:26
* Stskeeps still thinks the chroot idea could work.22:27
lcuki know wholeheartedly that building works well - gcc is super slick22:27
Stskeepsof the armel rootstrap22:27
lcuki agree Stskeeps22:27
lcukbut i dont know howtf to set that up :$22:27
Stskeepswe should get qole on it..22:27
Stskeepshe'd know22:27
BBNS_lcuk, not sure it works for dev that spoiled by iPhone SDK and XCode. we need something better than that.22:28
* Stskeeps sends him a message22:28
qwerty12_N810He's expressed that desire quite a few times, actually; push him22:28
lcukBBNS_, of course they have been spoiled, but i compile and run on actual metal quickly and easily22:29
Ppupniksome one make a bugreport applet that submits current os and software version to bugtracker22:30
lcukthe emulated portion on maemo is still troublesome according to som22:30
Ppupniklcuk can you bounce that to -devel pls22:30
lcukwhich bit?22:30
BBNS_yeah. qemu *beep* me off sometime ...22:30
lcukand its already in motion - qt-creator is being targetted towards it isnt it22:31
Ppupniksuggestion: bugreport applet that submits current os and software version to bugtracker22:31
qwerty12_N810Ppupnik: Open an enhancement request :p22:31
Ppupnikand allows entering comment /title22:31
lcuknahhh not an applet22:31
Ppupnikwant discussion first22:31
lcukisnt there already bug reporter22:31
lcukor is that just crash reporter22:31
Ppupnikmaybe my idea is bad22:31
Ppupnikih golod22:31
lcuklol if its an applet22:32
lcukpeople will start blaming their cat22:32
lcukfor adding 900000000000 bugs22:32
Ppupnikobviously such bugs would have an associated tag22:32
* timeless_mbp grumbles22:32
Ppupnikto allow filtering them out22:32
lcukgrrr BBNS_22:33
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Ppupniki might need to present reasons for this idea better22:34
lcukinside liqbase, i can add a note tagged to the name of any screen22:34
lcukand upload them22:34
lcuki want to group them in the future22:34
lcukto see people raging about new features or bugs22:34
lcukthe rocket in the corner does tracing ontop of anything22:35
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Ppupnikdo you know when images for flashing will be generally available?22:36
Ppupnikoct 22?22:36
Stskeepshey MoonTiger :)22:36
Stskeepslcuk, qwerty12_N810: sent him a challenge :P22:36
Stskeepshe gets to prove me right or wrong on this issue22:36
luke-jrwho's up for a game of FREECIV?!22:36
Stskeepsluke-jr: if it wasn't this late, maybe22:36
Ppupniki saw talk of genesis emulator - i can share what is working from my source tree22:36
luke-jrStskeeps: pfft, it's 2:30 PM22:37
qwerty12_N810luke-jr: Nope, but I'll play <insert any Microsoft game here>22:37
luke-jrqwerty12_N810: fail22:37
qwerty12_N810luke-jr: But, it's Microsoft!22:37
JayBomb999Why can't the transitions, zooms, etc on the n900 be as liquid smooth as liqbase?  They look awful in comparison.22:37
Ppupnikwho will port scorched3d to n900 and be a maemo god?22:37
Ppupnikjaybomb yup too slow still22:38
lcukJayBomb999, the transitions on n900 are drawn first using the cpu onto pixmap memory, this pixmap memory is then taken and converted to textures and sent back through the powervr chip22:38
lcukand onwards to the screen22:38
lcukliqbase has a since 800*480 screen and draws what it needs direct to that and send it22:39
lcukhas a single22:39
JayBomb999lcuk: Is this.. better somehow?  I really prefer your method.  :)22:39
lcukthe best way to optimize the x11 transitions is to CUT DOWN ON THE DRAWN LAYERS22:39
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lcukJayBomb999, its scalable22:40
lcuki can draw lots and lots22:40
lcukand my rendering routines are optimized22:40
lcukso i can draw 1 800*480 screen, or lots of smaller ones22:40
lcukin the same timeframe22:40
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JayBomb999It is unlikely to see suck fluidity on the n900?22:40
BBNS_lcuk, send your patch to maemo team? =P22:40
Ppupnikat least this limitation isnt critical22:40
lcukBBNS_, give me a job22:41
Ppupnikbut hopefully fixed in next gen22:41
ali1234the n900 transitions are rendered completely in software?22:41
BBNS_lcuk, maybe ask qgil =P22:41
lcukthey are powervr driven22:41
lbtJaffa: you around?22:41
BBNS_lcuk, i am from differnt unit. =P22:41
MoonTigerhey Stskeeps :)22:41
lcukyeah i know22:41
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Ppupnikafaik there is no fast blitting of textures to opengl es22:42
lcukthe apps that work well have already been thinned out quite extensively22:42
Ppupniki would like to be proven wrong though22:42
lcukand the compositing itself once a screen is drawn is great22:42
JayBomb999Let me try that poorly written questions again, it unlikely to see liqbase type fluidity in maemo5/n900?22:42
lbtJaffa: back in July (12/07/09 15:04) Re: Optimal battery life considerations in apps ... you talked about the power states for an app - did you take that further?22:42
ali1234surely the display is in graphics memory already?22:42
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lcukJayBomb999, liqbase runs on maemo 522:43
MoonTigerare the hardware drivers for the n810 really going to make a big difference?22:43
lcuki told nokia on day 1 that the device ran too fast22:43
lcuk(it was actually a bug report22:43
Ppupnikonce app is fullscreen, it renders via x, yes22:43
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JayBomb999lcuk: I know.  I was referring to the UI.  The transitions are laggy in comparison to liqbase.22:44
lcukPpupnik, im not sure even fullscreen the compositor is bypassed22:44
lcukbut that might be a nice thing to try22:44
luke-jranyone coming to play freeciv? :(22:44
lcuktransitions are nicer on the dashboard than liqbase22:44
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lcuki like how fluid that works22:44
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lcukthey arent the problem22:44
mikhason the n900, can apps using cairo get help from the dsp for rendering?22:45
Ppupniklcuk i would rather not break maemo5 conventions but rather learn and apply them22:45
lcukJayBomb999, when zooming in liqbase theres a little stutter at times, i dont notice it zooming in and out of the daskboard22:45
lcukyeah Ppupnik me too22:46
lcuki saw in the qt presentations that the qt rendering pathway is shorter22:46
lcukwith directly rendered elements22:46
JayBomb999lcuk:  Interesting.  Every video of the N900, especially returning from the dashboard to a full screen app, show stutter.  I thought your implementation in liqbase looked so much smoother.  Though you'd know better. :)22:46
lcuklol its possibly because i dont ever run too much22:47
lcuki routinely have >15-20 items in liqbase playground tho22:47
lcukand they come back every time22:47
lcukbut if i reboot device i have none in the dashboard22:47
lcukso theres only ever a few22:47
Ppupnikit is great to have liqbase to compare to22:48
lcukyeah, "a different approach" and finding what works in this can hopefully be used as lessons for other things22:48
lcukit would be even nicer to start using liqbase for more than i want it for22:48
Ppupniki see it co evolving22:48
Ppupnikin the next years22:48
JayBomb999I don't know how to explain it exactly, but the dashboard zooming in/out doesn't look like compositing I see using compiz.  It looks like it's being redrawn.  If that makes any sense...22:49
lcukdashboard is all pvr22:49
lcukits taking textures for X apps running22:49
JayBomb999sorry... ignorant.22:49
lcukthe 3d chip22:49
lcukand zooming in out22:49
lcukits what clutter can do well22:49
lcukit should also rotate, but thats another discussion#22:49
Ppupniki showed someone three webpages with animated gifs in overview22:49
Ppupnikand they went visibly mushy22:49
Ppupnikwhen can pupnik flash :)22:50
JayBomb999I see. Why is there the hesitation then?  Especially with a few apps open?22:50
Ppupnikit is worse than i thought it would be, leaving it brocked on desk :)22:51
unixSnobi noticed the n900 is going for $600.. is that for real?  What's the euro price?22:51
Ppupnik500 iirc22:51
mikhas€500 before taxes22:51
* unixSnob wonders if they've sold any yet22:51
Ppupnikit will drive new contracts22:51
JayBomb999When an app is going full screen from the dashboard, at about 80% it hesitates then.. "pops" to fullscreen.  I find it a little jarring.22:52
Ppupnikagree j22:52
JayBomb999Was hoping this was explained by unpolished firmware...22:52
lcukJayBomb999, you are describing liqbase there22:52
ali1234because up to that point it's stretching the app, then at the end the app has to reshape22:52
lcuknot fremantle lol22:52
lcukcos i see that all the time in lb and not fremantle22:53
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lcukahhh when it changes skin22:53
unixSnobNokia lost 20% in the last quarter due to lacking sales - no wonder22:53
lcukfrom the mini view22:53
lcukto the normal one22:53
Ppupnikjay, it doesnt really interfere with the use, but it does look rough22:53
JayBomb999Yes I could live with it.  Just would rather not. ;)22:54
lcukcould people *PLEASE* stop posting drnoksnes game links in my PM box.  *blink*22:55
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Ppupnikoh dear, a porsche is expensive.  what will i do. waah.22:55
RST38hGo for a Lada?22:56
waoPpupnik: buy a bmw!22:56
MoonTigerunixSnob, i think they need to get their act together indeed22:56
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Ppupnikyeah or audis monster cars22:56
Ppupnikor.  bicycle22:57
mikhasfrom porsche22:57
Ppupnik1997 specialized stumpjumper here22:57
RST38hbicycle gets wet in the rain22:57
Ppupnikwomen like wet guys22:58
mikhasso does a porsche22:58
mikhaswhether as car or as bike22:58
lcukjake just got n90022:59
lcukand he saw a scrollbar22:59
lcukand wanted to scrolldown with it22:59
qwerty12_N810That's not just limited to Jake...23:00
* qwerty12_N810 thinks of h-a-m with extras-devel enabled23:00
mikhasyeah, the scrollbar is the worst part of the UI23:00
mikhasthe rest is mostly great and intuitive23:00
mikhasif you read from left to right the scrollbar goes away too quickly before you recognize there was one23:00
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vasily_pupkinwpa_supplicant with patched module not working23:01
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lcukmikhas, i did a load of stuff with kinetics and scrolling23:02
lcuki rounded on a simple solution:23:02
lcukleft hand 80% of screen is kinetic23:02
lcukright hand 20% is actually direct addressing23:02
lcukand matches the scrollbar23:03
lcukso if you grab and hold there you can get to bottom of list23:03
lcukor anywhere else23:03
lcukit takes a long press to start the direct addressing23:03
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lcukso poking and using the list in the right hand side is still viable23:03
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lcukhi ccooke23:07
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andre__mikhas, there is a bug report in that the scrollbar should be shown longer than 2secs. feel free to vote...23:10
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villemvanyone using maemo-pc-connectivity here?23:11
villemvI'm wondering... I don't see the control panel apllets not the status bar thingie23:11
villemvthe only "Extras" applets are "services" and "usb networking"23:12
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lcukmikhas, well23:12
lcukwe did complain loudly for kinetics for years23:12
lcukthey gave em us23:12
lcukwell, we did complain about wanting kinetics for year23:12
lcuktheres me thinking that i wasnt typing23:13
* lcuk scrolls xchat into view23:13
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villemv  Depends: maemo-control-usb23:14
villemv  Depends: maemo-control-services23:14
villemvthat's the only deps for m-p-c I see23:14
GAN900Just a heads up. Zombieland is amazing.23:14
villemvonly cpl applets i mean23:14
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villemvcan anyone with a working pc connectivity run apt-cache depends maemo-pc-connectivity for me?23:16
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netBossHey every one23:24
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netBossIs the calaendar intergred in the system23:24
netBossaccept synconisation with Google Calandar23:24
javispedroI am sooo sick of sooo many stupid ROM PMs.23:25
vasily_pupkinjavispedro: hey. i compile all, wpa_supplicant works23:25
javispedrovasily_pupkin: :)23:25
vasily_pupkinjavispedro: but wlancond+wpa == fail23:25
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lcuklol javispedro23:25
javispedrowhich eap?23:25
javispedrowierd. are you sure you did wlancan after loading the newly patched cx3110x?23:26
vasily_pupkini see in dmesg, thar driver associated23:27
vasily_pupkinthen pass some time23:27
vasily_pupkinand deassociate23:27
vasily_pupkinwpa_supplicant works23:27
javispedrocan you md5sum the .ko file?23:27
vasily_pupkini have very own kernel :]23:27
vasily_pupkin2f96ea02f17a97413f43c4d4fc1aa7f8  cx3110x.ko23:28
javispedrothey differ but I guess it's due to build time or some other reason23:29
vasily_pupkinmy sk_buff structure is differ :)23:29
javispedroif you right now rmmod the patched module and insmod the original one does wlancond work?23:29
javispedroah well.23:29
vasily_pupkini change modules once again23:29
vasily_pupkinnow i put compiled without your patch23:30
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javispedroi am using it right now with wpa2 (aes) / psk23:30
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vasily_pupkinoh shit23:31
vasily_pupkinold modules not working too ^_^23:31
vasily_pupkincan it be because of libicd-bla-bla and new osso-wlan? :]23:32
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javispedrolibicd-network-wlan and new osso-wlan? shouldn't.23:32
vasily_pupkinfscked lifse ^_^23:32
javispedroif you look at the osso-wlan patch it just adds a new flag ,doesn't change behaviour if flag not set.23:33
vasily_pupkinyeah, i see23:33
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vasily_pupkinoh lol23:35
vasily_pupkinto test wpa i own my neighbour point23:36
vasily_pupkinlooks like passphrase is changed or something in that space23:36
vasily_pupkinat least at this time wpa_supplicant not working too23:37
vasily_pupkinbut it works some time ago with this module23:37
vasily_pupkinlets try from host..23:37
javispedroif nothing works time to reboot lol :)23:37
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vasily_pupkinheh. if windows xp couldn't connect - nothing could23:42
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vasily_pupkineh.. it was very good access point. i lost it for the name of truth ._.23:43
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javispedro) {23:50
qwerty12_N810^^ javispedro's function to take over the world23:51
javispedroIf only I knew in which language it was written, I could run it....23:51
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lcukjavispedro, finger pinch and pan out23:52
lcukyou might be able to see the rest of the code23:53
lcukor swirly zoom should i say!23:53
javispedroswirly zoom! i don't want capacitive!23:53
lcuki just tend to click back button to pan out23:53
lcukless energetic than any other method23:54
lcuki might do a comparison of how much energy it takes to do actions23:54
lcukwith multitouch, single touch and with stylus23:54
mikhaswhat wait. do you say swirly zoom will go away on future devices?23:54
Macerlcuk: i would expect you to be doing backflips since they are releasingn psuedo drivers for the opengles stuff on n8x023:55
lcukhow would i eat breakfast23:55
lcukand read news23:55
vasily_pupkinjavispedro: by the way, how can i put flags to use wpa_supplicant on saved networks?23:55
mikhasI yet have to see iphone users who use multitouch. most of them only use one finger23:55
lcukMacer, opengles was never for liqbase23:55
lcukit was for gaming23:55
lcukliqbase would be slower with ogl23:55
javispedrovasily_pupkin: it's very undocumented. have you seen the gconf files in the repo?23:55
lcuki would however welcome blitter support23:56
javispedroouch, there's still only one23:56
lcukespecially rotblit23:56
Macerlet me rephrase23:56
Maceraren't they releasing drivers for the gpu on an n8x0?23:56
Macerthat will allow you to use the 3d support?23:57
lcukbut i dont see how it will make liqbase faster23:57
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Maceryou don't get to push stuff from liq onto the gpu?23:57
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Macerand use it to help with rendering?23:57
lcukmaybe in 12-18months again23:57
lcukafter the output paths have been redesigned23:58
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lcukprinciple bottleneck now isnt rendering23:58
lcukits image loading and decoding23:58
Macerso it doesn't help at all? :)23:58
lcukat least on 81023:58
lcuknot immediately23:58
lcuki worked round that damage about a year ago23:58
javispedrovasily_pupkin: pull from git, and you see another gconf sample with IAP gconf settings23:59
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javispedroyou have to import network-type.xml into gconf,23:59

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