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| GAN900 | Why torn, Stskeeps? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| javispedro | as for myself... so far I think I'll get it. not this month though. | 00:00 |
| woglinde | javis I would like to see the numbers how many it will buy for 500 euros | 00:00 |
| GAN900 | Use the loaner as yours, let the wiff use the discounted one. :P | 00:00 |
| javispedro | woglinde: it all depends on "when" | 00:01 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: issue is really if i should keep it as developer device, pass it on to a needy developer, or what to do.. | 00:01 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN900: she does actually want one | 00:01 |
| woglinde | lets see if my company will buy some | 00:01 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: hard decision then, but if you plan to stay here I'd say you'd "enjoy" having a n900 when the 6 months pass by... | 00:02 |
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| javispedro | s/pass by/come around | 00:02 |
| Stskeeps | true | 00:03 |
| javispedro | in fact, you and most of maemo.org would enjoy you having a n900 then ;) | 00:03 |
| woglinde | early adaptors lalalalala | 00:03 |
| javispedro | lalalalalal can't hear you lalalalala | 00:04 |
| javispedro | ;P | 00:04 |
| * RST38h moos again | 00:05 | |
| javispedro | hi RST38h | 00:05 |
| RST38h | Anyone knows an easy way to access proximity sensor? | 00:05 |
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| RST38h | Heya javis, wanna power-saving hint? | 00:05 |
| javispedro | how's the emus going? still banging omapfb directly? | 00:05 |
| javispedro | RST38h, why not? | 00:05 |
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| javispedro | i'm considering ditching sdl and going your way (gtk + omapfb) | 00:05 |
| RST38h | javis: well, I bang fb0 when in full screen mode. It works. And an hour ago, I managed to fully cut off power consumption when inactive | 00:06 |
| RST38h | Mine isn't really omapfb any more, just plain fb0 | 00:06 |
| javispedro | too many bugs in hgw, plus zeemote lib requiring glib also may "help" me choose gtk | 00:06 |
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| RST38h | javis: Anyways, in order to completely freeze things, wait for focus-out on your app window | 00:07 |
| javispedro | RST38h: i found out hgw has a provision for powersaving that consists in blocking in dbus receive call | 00:07 |
| javispedro | up to a second only, tho. | 00:07 |
| RST38h | javis: then shut down sound, stop any timers you are using to sync (setitimer and friends) | 00:07 |
| javispedro | well, up to two seconds if you add system+session busses. | 00:07 |
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| RST38h | javis: and do gtk_main_loop_iteration() in a while loop until focus returns | 00:08 |
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| Khertan__ | hi again | 00:08 |
| javispedro | RST38h: ah, you're making me remember why game devs don't choose gtk ;P | 00:08 |
| RST38h | javis: this will nicely block until focus returns | 00:08 |
| RST38h | javis: come one, gtk is ok | 00:08 |
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| RST38h | javis: you wrap it away and it is fine | 00:08 |
| Khertan__ | homeip is available in extras-testing | 00:08 |
| RST38h | Seen it =) | 00:09 |
| Khertan__ | py2deb is availale in extras testing | 00:09 |
| javispedro | it would help me solve "the input problem" in dosbox (the international one, not the focus one) | 00:09 |
| javispedro | sigh I want my opengles 2 book. | 00:09 |
| woglinde | *g* | 00:10 |
| RST38h | javis: Look at my EMULib source code if you decide to use Gtk based framework | 00:10 |
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| woglinde | javis why not qt? | 00:10 |
| RST38h | javis: (the only things you really need from gtk is event loop and a GtkImage) | 00:10 |
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| Khertan__ | modest on n900 have a nicer ui ... but still not useable with gmail | 00:10 |
| * RST38h though gmail was ok? | 00:11 | |
| woglinde | re pupnik | 00:11 |
| RST38h | Nowadays, it is only pop3 that is screwed isn't it? | 00:11 |
| Khertan__ | no email retrieved since 5 days | 00:11 |
| javispedro | woglinde: no answer, really. I have nearly the same experience with both (one app = 3 o 4 dialogs = 24 hours work) ;) | 00:11 |
| RST38h | probably hung | 00:11 |
| Khertan__ | i use imap | 00:11 |
| woglinde | javis hu????? | 00:11 |
| RST38h | yea, gmail is imap and it seems to work so far | 00:11 |
| Khertan__ | i ve restart the n900 since | 00:11 |
| javispedro | woglinde: that I don't have any real reason to prefer gtk over qt right now. | 00:11 |
| RST38h | you can also kill modest hanging in memory | 00:12 |
| javispedro | woglinde: so if you have any reason for qt... (not futuristic ;) ) | 00:12 |
| woglinde | javis qt-designer | 00:12 |
| RST38h | woglinde: anyone seriously using that? | 00:12 |
| woglinde | yes me | 00:12 |
| GAN900 | Khertan_! | 00:12 |
| wazd_ | VDVsx: ping? :) | 00:12 |
| javispedro | I have to say that from all gui designers, qt-designer is best, hands down. | 00:12 |
| woglinde | needed some time to figure some stuff out | 00:12 |
| javispedro | still, it's an automated gui designer. | 00:12 |
| GAN900 | Give me your secrets! | 00:12 |
| woglinde | but now its cool | 00:12 |
| woglinde | I only make the .ui | 00:13 |
| woglinde | and can use this in my python proggie | 00:13 |
| * lcuk coughs and compares it to vb and still finds it complex | 00:13 | |
| Khertan__ | GAN900 ? | 00:13 |
| javispedro | lcuk: yes :( | 00:13 |
| lcuk | it needs streamlining | 00:13 |
| lcuk | and specific tablet oriented project types | 00:13 |
| GAN900 | Khertan_, how'd you get tab, etc working? | 00:13 |
| lcuk | with full packaging etc included | 00:13 |
| javispedro | every tutorial I've following forces me to create custom widgets. | 00:13 |
| javispedro | s/following/followed | 00:14 |
| lcuk | so someone can walk up and create a qt app quickly and easily for maemo | 00:14 |
| javispedro | but I want to do it the ugly way and just put the whole app logic in the form itself >:) | 00:14 |
| Khertan__ | GAN900tabs for what ? | 00:14 |
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| woglinde | lcuk feel free to send in a mameo template | 00:14 |
| lcuk | woglinde, it needs more than a template | 00:14 |
| javispedro | lcuk: tried qt creator? | 00:14 |
| lcuk | it needs to communicate with the build process properly | 00:14 |
| woglinde | would be a first step | 00:14 |
| javispedro | try it. | 00:14 |
| lcuk | and debug etc | 00:15 |
| woglinde | javis he did | 00:15 |
| lcuk | i am talking about creator lol ;) | 00:15 |
| javispedro | a. | 00:15 |
| javispedro | designer != creator though. | 00:15 |
| lcuk | i was speaking to one of the devs at the summit | 00:15 |
| lcuk | o_O then lol | 00:15 |
| lcuk | is it better ? :D | 00:15 |
| woglinde | designer is only for gui | 00:15 |
| javispedro | designer is for gui only. it does not even touch code. | 00:15 |
| Khertan__ | tabulation in irc ? on webchat ? i did use it :) | 00:15 |
| woglinde | creator makes more | 00:15 |
| lcuk | haha javispedro even closer to my current use of vb | 00:16 |
| lcuk | load up vb, make standard forms | 00:16 |
| lcuk | click export | 00:16 |
| Khertan__ | but tab is available at fn+sym | 00:16 |
| Khertan__ | s/did/didn't | 00:16 |
| javispedro | i found qt creator nice. a bit on the "trivial" side though. | 00:17 |
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| javispedro | (not really much featured... I mean) | 00:17 |
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| lcuk | well creator includes designer, so we are still on same page | 00:18 |
| javispedro | still, I'm gonna keep with gtk, just because I'm going to use it as a x11 wrapper and that's about it, thus no need to keep the libs loaded. | 00:18 |
| Khertan__ | really, modest works four day with gmail and now it doesn t retrieve anymore new mail ... strange | 00:18 |
| woglinde | lcuk hm right | 00:18 |
| lcuk | from technical basis it works, it just doesnt get a project to this side easily enough | 00:18 |
| Khertan__ | noone really use it in imap | 00:18 |
| * lcuk never uses email from mobile | 00:18 | |
| javispedro | lcuk: but qt creator comes "near" the VB dream. "double click" on a button in a form to edit "command1_clicked()" code nearly works. | 00:19 |
| lcuk | "nearly" | 00:19 |
| lcuk | it actually asks to rename the object from the quick look i did | 00:19 |
| javispedro | nearly= it's not double click, but rather right click, go to slot.... | 00:19 |
| lcuk | select slot | 00:20 |
| javispedro | but it opens the code editor and fills in the headers. | 00:20 |
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| lcuk | get error message couldnt find xyz | 00:20 |
| lcuk | not for me :D | 00:20 |
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| lcuk | i am trying again later | 00:20 |
| javispedro | maybe you were using beta :P ? | 00:20 |
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| Khertan__ | haha lcuk | 00:20 |
| Khertan__ | i say the same things | 00:20 |
| lcuk | i wouldnt mind looking at whether i can parse qt .ui files and produce a liq* layout | 00:20 |
| lcuk | lol | 00:20 |
| pupnik_ | hmm xchat on n900 lagging badly | 00:21 |
| lcuk | javispedro, i redownloaded from qt today | 00:21 |
| javispedro | lcuk: dunno, i am just opening a new project.. | 00:21 |
| pupnik_ | last thing i saw is RST38h: "Nowadays, it is only pop3 that is screwed, isn't it?" | 00:21 |
| lcuk | tis ok | 00:21 |
| lcuk | its prolly the old one | 00:21 |
| lcuk | i just went on their site and grabbed | 00:21 |
| javispedro | lcuk: drag pushbutton from toolbox into form, | 00:21 |
| ShadowJK | pupnik: scrolled uo? | 00:21 |
| ShadowJK | up | 00:21 |
| javispedro | right click push button, | 00:22 |
| Khertan__ | pupnik use webchat | 00:22 |
| javispedro | go to slot... | 00:22 |
| lcuk | http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/downloads#lgpl | 00:22 |
| javispedro | "clicked()" | 00:22 |
| javispedro | and it opens the code editor. | 00:22 |
| javispedro | no errors. | 00:22 |
| pupnik_ | nope | 00:22 |
| andre__ | pupnik, xchat on n900 is really BAD. also tried it | 00:22 |
| Khertan__ | works well on the n900 browser | 00:22 |
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| lcuk | javispedro, good | 00:22 |
| pupnik_ | ah ok ty | 00:22 |
| lcuk | where you grab from, i would gladly gladly do again | 00:22 |
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| pupnik_ | back to my friend irssi which works everywhere the same | 00:22 |
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| * ShadowJK imagines webchat uses lots more battery... | 00:22 | |
| pupnik_ | but xchat has some nice finger optimization work in network list - take a look at it | 00:22 |
| javispedro | lcuk: from that page O.o | 00:23 |
| javispedro | so I dunno whats going on on your install :P | 00:23 |
| * javispedro dislikes the animation on qt creator when you click on a } | 00:24 | |
| pupnik_ | you are using qt creator in scratchbox? | 00:27 |
| lcuk | ahhhh | 00:27 |
| lcuk | ahhhhhhhh | 00:27 |
| lcuk | said the blind man | 00:27 |
| pupnik_ | or that sits outside scratchbox? | 00:27 |
| javispedro | pupnik, so far, non-maemo qt creator. | 00:27 |
| GAN900 | Khertan_, I heard you had managed to do some keyboard layout gymnastics at the Summit. My experimentations have been fruitless so fars so I was hoping you vould enlighten me. | 00:27 |
| lcuk | "file new" "qt designer form" dialog blah blah | 00:27 |
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| javispedro | but I think it "outside sbox" qt creator may be doable. | 00:27 |
| lcuk | right click on the dialog ok/cancel buttons goto slot | 00:28 |
| lcuk | accepted | 00:28 |
| lcuk | moans about missing file | 00:28 |
| lcuk | now i see why.. | 00:28 |
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| woglinde | lcuk why? | 00:28 |
| javispedro | lol here too. | 00:28 |
| lcuk | because i added a designer form only | 00:29 |
| javispedro | the problem is within the dialog template I guess. | 00:29 |
| lcuk | i just redid it with a project | 00:29 |
| lcuk | and it does as you describe | 00:29 |
| Khertan__ | going to sleep | 00:29 |
| Khertan__ | bye | 00:29 |
| lcuk | works and opens code | 00:29 |
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| javispedro | bye Khertan | 00:29 |
| javispedro | ouch. | 00:29 |
| lcuk | so it lets you create ui stuff without a project - i am guessing this was the original use of qt-designer now | 00:30 |
| javispedro | if i add to an existing project a new "dialog", and try to "goto slot" it complains about missing ui_dialog.h file. | 00:30 |
| javispedro | it should know enough to try to build that file.. | 00:30 |
| pupnik_ | :| | 00:31 |
| * RST38h is still looking for a proximity sensor example. Any good samaritans? | 00:31 | |
| lcuk | RST38h, source for q3 | 00:31 |
| RST38h | (btw, you give me that code, you get quake-style fire button in VGBA) | 00:31 |
| lcuk | unless its being huddled | 00:31 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Where? | 00:31 |
| javispedro | ah sorry, my fault. in the "new" dialog you have to choose "dialog with class" or either it won't have a .cpp file to "edit" for you ;) | 00:31 |
| * lcuk shrugs | 00:31 | |
| lcuk | they showed it at summit didnt they | 00:31 |
| RST38h | yea | 00:31 |
| RST38h | it is in the Extras too | 00:31 |
| javispedro | RST38h: interesting. how's that fire button? :) | 00:31 |
| RST38h | javis: The quake3 Nokia guys made for n900 uses proximity sensor as the fire button. You close it with your finger and fire away | 00:32 |
| RST38h | javis: I think it is neat and will go well with accelerometer controls | 00:32 |
| javispedro | interesting way to gain an extra hard button | 00:32 |
| javispedro | "hard" lol | 00:33 |
| RST38h | aha, it is in the MCE. | 00:33 |
| RST38h | But I would like to know the sysfs entry | 00:33 |
| lcuk | yeah novel hack :) | 00:33 |
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| lcuk | cant play in the dark tho | 00:33 |
| RST38h | ehhehe, it can, as long as you have unlimited amount of ammo | 00:33 |
| lcuk | haha | 00:33 |
| woglinde | lol | 00:33 |
| lcuk | ok javispedro so it will do as you said | 00:34 |
| lcuk | i am still curious how to get this over to tablet | 00:34 |
| javispedro | first step would be to get the codesourcey windows toolchain working (if it exists! lol) | 00:35 |
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| lcuk | isnt there a qt single lib | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | why not in the dark? | 00:36 |
| javispedro | qt single lib? | 00:36 |
| lcuk | that it can be built against directly on device | 00:36 |
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| lcuk | ShadowJK, its based on light isnt it? | 00:36 |
| lcuk | or is proximity something else | 00:37 |
| javispedro | or infrared. | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk: yeah but there's an emitter there too? | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | infrared light | 00:37 |
| lcuk | o_O cool | 00:37 |
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| greenfly | noticing a strange issue with the maemo 5 xterm when connecting to a remote screen session | 00:38 |
| woglinde | lcuk single? | 00:38 |
| greenfly | seems to just... stall | 00:38 |
| greenfly | keystrokes seem to get across (when I re-attach from a different host I can see them) but it's like it stops updating the maemo5 xterm | 00:38 |
| lcuk | woglinde, ill have a double tonight thx | 00:39 |
| trbs | is it possible to get the widgets in the scratchbox ( xephyr ) for fremental transparent? | 00:39 |
| woglinde | lcuk there is QtCore | 00:39 |
| RST38h | fremental is a novel spelling | 00:39 |
| RST38h | have not seen it | 00:39 |
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| javispedro | fremental. ok. lmao. | 00:40 |
| lcuk | woglinde, at the summit i heard about qt single lib | 00:40 |
| woglinde | lcuk a big fat one? | 00:40 |
| * javispedro notes another spanish maemo fanboy site. | 00:41 | |
| lcuk | yeah why not | 00:41 |
| woglinde | okay one epsiode of naruto and than bed | 00:41 |
| javispedro | this one way more cult than the other ones at least, making proper references to omap2 3d drivers. | 00:41 |
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| lcuk | bbiab code bein more annoyin | 00:41 |
| RST38h | All righty! | 00:42 |
| * RST38h further lowered CPU load | 00:42 | |
| javispedro | lol. | 00:42 |
| javispedro | it should _block_! | 00:42 |
| javispedro | 0 load. | 00:42 |
| Stskeeps | select()? | 00:43 |
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| RST38h | It does block | 00:43 |
| RST38h | It now blocks when waiting for a key (real or virtual) | 00:43 |
| Stskeeps | also, the device programme thread has caused me to give up hope in humanity. | 00:43 |
| RST38h | It now blocks when it is ready to show a frame | 00:43 |
| javispedro | do you have cycles to spare? O.o | 00:44 |
| RST38h | Sts: whining freeloaders, all of them? | 00:44 |
| RST38h | I do, javis! | 00:44 |
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| * RST38h is a miser | 00:44 | |
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| javispedro | what emu? O.o | 00:44 |
| RST38h | Finally, it now blocks completely when you move it to background | 00:44 |
| RST38h | javis: testing on VGBA, but they will all act like this in the next release | 00:44 |
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| javispedro | but but but. | 00:45 |
| javispedro | did I grasp this well? think not. | 00:45 |
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| VDVsx | Stskeeps, S/humanity/TMO :P | 00:45 |
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| RST38h | javis: What? | 00:45 |
| javispedro | what are you doing? powersaving when the user is not "there", | 00:46 |
| * RST38h quietly sends a note to the Tentacled one to queue up half of t.m.o membership for dinner | 00:46 | |
| javispedro | or powersaving while the emulator is actually running? | 00:46 |
| RST38h | javis: Well, several things | 00:46 |
| RST38h | javis: #1: When EFF_SAVECPU option is in effect and the emulator window goes into background for whatever reason, I block now. | 00:47 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, meh, it's like 4 people. :P | 00:47 |
| javispedro | ok, #1 is same as you requested to me too. | 00:47 |
| RST38h | javis: #2: When MCE sends me INACTIVE notification, I *always* block | 00:47 |
| javispedro | ah. | 00:47 |
| RST38h | javis: #3: When emulator prepares a frame, but the 60fps timer has not ticked yet, I block. | 00:47 |
| greenfly | is this channel more aimed toward development? I can take my user-level question to a different channel if there's a more appropriate one | 00:47 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: just wait, a few more threads about that are on the making ;) | 00:48 |
| RST38h | javis: And finally #4: When waiting for a keypress or mouse (WaitKey() in EMULib) I also block | 00:48 |
| javispedro | greenfly: this can be a user channel, but please google your question a bit before asking. | 00:48 |
| Stskeeps | greenfly: asking is better | 00:48 |
| RST38h | greenfly: Shoot | 00:48 |
| greenfly | javispedro: done a lot of googling already | 00:48 |
| RST38h | But yes, do google or we may ask you to unask your question | 00:48 |
| frals | a good unask is nice | 00:48 |
| greenfly | sure, I give you permission to flame me if you can find the answer in a quick google search | 00:49 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: ah, #4 only blocks if emulated cpu is paused (you're on the onscreen gui, etc.) | 00:49 |
| RST38h | javis: Yea. | 00:49 |
| greenfly | I'm noticing when I connect to a remote screen session over ssh in the xterm, the local xterm seems to stall and stop showing updates | 00:49 |
| javispedro | actually #3 is on drnoksnes but of course only certain parts of sm world actually get enough speed to sleep. | 00:49 |
| RST38h | greenfly: Correct | 00:49 |
| greenfly | from the testing I've done the keypresses seem to get through | 00:49 |
| RST38h | greenfly: It is the result of the tablet WiFi saving power | 00:49 |
| RST38h | greenfly: You can actually go to wifi connection Advanced Config and turn off the power saving. This will make ssh more responsive | 00:50 |
| greenfly | why does that affect screen sessions but not regular interactive shells? | 00:50 |
| RST38h | greenfly: Your device will eat batteries like crazy though | 00:50 |
| * ShadowJK hasn't noticed this | 00:50 | |
| RST38h | greenfly: It affects everything. Screen may just transfer more data before it shows you anything | 00:50 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Well, latest firmware we have got (41.10?) is way better on this | 00:51 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: But still does it | 00:51 |
| javispedro | actually, as for the tmo thread, qgil is pretty good following what's going on in maemo. can't complain. | 00:51 |
| wazd_ | gnite maemo | 00:51 |
| greenfly | let me try that. thanks for the help :) | 00:51 |
| javispedro | he's 100% right on his last post. | 00:51 |
| javispedro | wazd_: gnite! | 00:51 |
| RST38h | wazd: good night... | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | rst38h: oh on N8x0 I mean | 00:52 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Ah! N8x0 is way better on this | 00:52 |
| javispedro | uh. | 00:52 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: N8x0 will STILL hiccup every now and then though | 00:52 |
| pupnik_ | interesting | 00:53 |
| KMFDM | is there any way to get the phone to accept an expired 802.1x cert? | 00:53 |
| RST38h | set the clock back? | 00:53 |
| KMFDM | my school decided they are too lazy to update their cert that expired in 2008 | 00:53 |
| javispedro | KMFDM: blame your school. | 00:53 |
| javispedro | I went on a personal rampage on mine | 00:53 |
| javispedro | and got an updated cert. | 00:53 |
| RST38h | how many casualties? | 00:53 |
| ShadowJK | rst38h: mine seem pretty consistent. no hiccups, just higher latency | 00:54 |
| javispedro | only a poor guy who didn't even work in IT. | 00:54 |
| greenfly | RST38h: does the change to the wifi settings take immediately or should I re-associate? | 00:54 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: You can call it that | 00:54 |
| RST38h | greenfly: Once you ok all dialogs, it will reassociate automatically | 00:54 |
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| greenfly | RST38h: thx | 00:55 |
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| javispedro | ouch. | 00:58 |
| javispedro | this guy, the one who posted incompleted mupen64 source to tmo and claimed it was a "n900 n64 emu" | 00:59 |
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| javispedro | is now trying to post a "n900 emulator package" with 13 emus, including NDS, PSX and N64. | 01:00 |
| * javispedro sighs | 01:00 | |
| * absolute hands javispedro a stess ball | 01:00 | |
| RST38h | javispedro: does he even have an n900? | 01:01 |
| javispedro | no, but he "wants one badly". | 01:01 |
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| RST38h | The kids finally discovered t.m.o. God save us all. | 01:02 |
| javispedro | yeah, he comes from same fansite posting java tutoriales. | 01:03 |
| javispedro | err... tutorials. | 01:03 |
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| * javispedro grabs stress ball | 01:04 | |
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| RST38h | The Tentacled One needs a lot of these for a good dinner: pretty much no gray matter, just some spinal fluid... | 01:04 |
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| javispedro | really, the marketing dept. is redundant. | 01:05 |
| javispedro | these guys auto-marketize the thing to themselves | 01:05 |
| javispedro | "arm 600 mhz cortex comparable to intel core 2 due 1 ghz" | 01:05 |
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| ShadowJK | lol :) | 01:06 |
| RST38h | do they have money to spend? | 01:06 |
| dotblank3 | So I just learned that the n900 cant act as a usb host? | 01:06 |
| RST38h | yes. so? | 01:06 |
| absolute | its true, but there are workarounds for most use cases | 01:06 |
| RST38h | afaik, no workarounds. | 01:06 |
| Mousey | see? tolja it was saddening, the no host-mode thing | 01:06 |
| absolute | not pretty, and probably never out of that port | 01:07 |
| dotblank3 | damn cause that would have been awesome | 01:07 |
| absolute | but for certain tasks you could wish to use the usb for | 01:07 |
| Mousey | dotblank3: it's awesome on the n810 | 01:07 |
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| absolute | there are other ways to accomplish | 01:07 |
| ifreq | same with older internet tablets.. tho with soldering it was possib. | 01:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there more recent information than the couple of mails to the list a month ago? | 01:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Or is this just ongoing speculation? | 01:07 |
| ifreq | but you prob should have any need for usb-host, bt devices are usually sufficient | 01:07 |
| RST38h | Speed: Well, I no longer remember the source but it was said that usb host is not compatible with usb charging feature | 01:08 |
| SpeedEvil | ifreq: plugging in hard-drives, scanners, ethernet dongles, ... | 01:08 |
| RST38h | Speed: Not compatible on hw level. End of story. | 01:08 |
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| dotblank3 | cause I would really like to use my USBtoSerail adapter to work and program my embeded devices with it | 01:08 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: If that's based on the same sources that I saw - I don't quite conclude the same thing from that. | 01:08 |
| ifreq | cant you do such things withan laptop | 01:08 |
| dotblank3 | As a cisco engineer it would be awesome to be able to program from my phone | 01:08 |
| javispedro | the pessimist on me also says "end of story". but i'm sure someone will get it open. or maybe the debug ports on the backside are connected to the usb host transceiver. | 01:09 |
| ifreq | within* | 01:09 |
| RST38h | Speed: Well, can't deny people hope | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: There is a big difference between 'OTG compatible' and will work if you apply power and flip bit 47 in the USB config register. | 01:09 |
| ifreq | dotblank3: you mean the keyboard is sufficient for doing firewall rules | 01:09 |
| ifreq | dotblank3: or cutting/pasting rules between systems etc | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank3: you get bluetooth->serial links | 01:09 |
| ifreq | I cant see it so usable as you. | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank3: they regrettably aren't very cheap - but they do exist. | 01:09 |
| dotblank3 | ifreq: well for quick diagnostics | 01:10 |
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| ifreq | dotblank3: yeh, for that there is usually other ways too to connect into your router/fw | 01:10 |
| ifreq | :) | 01:10 |
| ifreq | but i get your point yes | 01:10 |
| dotblank3 | If pymaemo had the serial class I could write some quick apps that would let me handle the cisco devices better | 01:10 |
| RST38h | javis: BTW have you got the network play already? | 01:11 |
| dotblank3 | Im not a developer | 01:11 |
| javispedro | RST38h: nah, since chances I ever find another n8xx user to play adhoc are 0. | 01:11 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank3: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PICO-PLUG-bluetooth-adapter-for-LPT-and-serial-devices_W0QQitemZ190262209575QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_Networking_SM?hash=item2c4c82ec27 | 01:11 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank3: for example. | 01:11 |
| RST38h | javis: Should I suggest a workaround? | 01:11 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank3: there may be more appropriate ones | 01:11 |
| javispedro | and doing internet play with insane latencies will be tricky at least. | 01:11 |
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| dotblank3 | SpeedEvil: wow thx those are cheap | 01:11 |
| javispedro | RST38h: shoot. | 01:11 |
| RST38h | javis: Look at NetPlay stuff in EMULib | 01:12 |
| dotblank3 | SpeedEvil: oops thats in pounds isnt it.. nm | 01:12 |
| dotblank3 | nvm | 01:12 |
| RST38h | javis: Basically, as long as both ends have IP addresses, you are in a game | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank3: I think that's a remaindered stock - it's about 1/4 the price I've seen | 01:12 |
| RST38h | no need for adhoc | 01:12 |
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| absolute | Yeah, there's seriously like a 46 pages of talk on maemo.org under a search of "USB OTG" that will cover all the bases... I too was kinda disappointed about no USB host, but i'll deal with it and work around it... for my needs | 01:12 |
| javispedro | RST38h: i have code from snes9x to do that, already compiled in (missing frontend code mostly) | 01:12 |
| RST38h | javis: Now, if you are behind NAT, it is not possible | 01:13 |
| javispedro | but I was worried about how it handles latency. | 01:13 |
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| ShadowJK | best workaround is n8x0 ;) | 01:13 |
| javispedro | basically every 10-20 frames it syncs up. | 01:13 |
| javispedro | which ... sucks. for anything non adhoc. | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm - they've become cheaper. | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bluetooth-RS232-Serial-Adapter-Dipole-Antenna_W0QQitemZ320414777912QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_Networking_SM?hash=item4a9a358238 | 01:13 |
| RST38h | javis: But if we establish a server somewhere that will take both connections and relay them, that may work | 01:13 |
| dotblank3 | did you see that video of quake III on the n900? | 01:13 |
| RST38h | javis: I sync up on every frame. Seems to work over WiFi | 01:14 |
| absolute | ShadowJK: yeah, I'm looking at picking up a used n800... seems you can get them for < $100 and someone in that thread talked about using its usb host hack/mod over wifi adhoc on the 900... so really, worst case scenario, its still there... | 01:14 |
| javispedro | 10 frames is like, 200ms. | 01:14 |
| RST38h | infrastructure WiFi | 01:14 |
| javispedro | that prohibites anything internet. | 01:14 |
| RST38h | 200ms is a lot of time | 01:14 |
| javispedro | well, my ISP sucks then. | 01:14 |
| RST38h | Guess so | 01:14 |
| javispedro | I get 100ms ping to google... | 01:15 |
| RST38h | But I think it is at least worth a try. At least games like final fantasy will do | 01:15 |
| javispedro | and 200ms ping to google.com | 01:15 |
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| RST38h | 40ms ping to google.com here | 01:15 |
| javispedro | so yes, I guess my ISP sucks hard :P | 01:15 |
| RST38h | another feature I want to try is the vibro | 01:16 |
| RST38h | Works in VGB-Symbian, so should work in VGB-Maemo | 01:16 |
| javispedro | hum. some vgba games have it in the cartridge iirc? | 01:16 |
| javispedro | er.. s/vgba/gba | 01:16 |
| RST38h | Dunno about GBA, but GB had an extension | 01:16 |
| javispedro | a. | 01:17 |
| RST38h | And it works pretty well | 01:17 |
| * RST38h actually prefers GB games to MIDP games performance wise =) | 01:17 | |
| javispedro | and they even have more content. | 01:17 |
| RST38h | yep, ironically | 01:17 |
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| javispedro | when I need to get depressed | 01:18 |
| dotblank3 | My palm treo can play NES games perfectly...... | 01:18 |
| javispedro | I compare memory usage of drnoksnes vs drnoksnes_gui | 01:18 |
| dotblank3 | now I'll pay someone for an snes emulator | 01:18 |
| javispedro | gui uses like 10x more memory. | 01:18 |
| RST38h | mmm....what is VIRT vs RES? | 01:18 |
| RST38h | I can bet the RES is not that high | 01:19 |
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| * pupnik_ does the n900 really is very good dance | 01:19 | |
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| javispedro | pupnik_: how's the keyboard for gaming? | 01:19 |
| ShadowJK | virt is mostly a useless measure | 01:19 |
| RST38h | RES is also not exactly correct | 01:20 |
| RST38h | as it includes shared libs | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - it includes shared libs. | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | There are a couple of projects to merge shared pages | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean identical unshared pages | 01:20 |
| javispedro | the whole thing is a mess. if I were evil I would include even ro pages of shared libraries. | 01:20 |
| * RST38h answered the "is Cortex really that fast?" question at work by showing off quake3 | 01:20 | |
| SpeedEvil | Which may be useful. | 01:20 |
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| javispedro | cause "they do not count because they're shared" is like a theorital lie practical truth issue. | 01:21 |
| ShadowJK | it includes all kinds of meomory maps | 01:21 |
| pupnik_ | dunno javispedro - so far ok | 01:21 |
| RST38h | javisL not exactly | 01:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:2Sf3ZthRVTsJ:mergemem.ist.org/+mergemem&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk - like that - but more recent | 01:21 |
| RST38h | javis: Take gtk+ for example: it is used by a shitload of maemo apps on regular basis | 01:21 |
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| RST38h | javis: So, you also make use of it. Does it mean it should count against your program footprint? | 01:22 |
| javispedro | not doing that is a partial truth. | 01:22 |
| RST38h | but doing that is a partial truth as well, just a different part | 01:22 |
| javispedro | yeah, I guess it depends on your level of nitpickyness | 01:23 |
| RST38h | and it all depends on how many processes use that particular library | 01:23 |
| RST38h | actually here is a good measure: | 01:23 |
| RST38h | for every shared library, divide its size by the number of processes that use it | 01:23 |
| RST38h | this will give me your process' share in that library | 01:23 |
| javispedro | RST38h: drnoksnes uses 10m RES, gui uses 12m. | 01:24 |
| RST38h | SDL? | 01:24 |
| javispedro | (I don't know where busybox top gets the %MEM) | 01:24 |
| RST38h | Install htop from the repo | 01:24 |
| javispedro | i'm using debian top now | 01:25 |
| RST38h | htop is better, top is kinda untruthful | 01:25 |
| RST38h | Also, SDL probably maps the whole fb0 into address space of the process | 01:25 |
| ShadowJK | Atleast in the past, each new thread got something like 8megs of stack mapped, so every new thread would grow virt by 8Megs even if the thread was using only 4k of it (meaning only 4k of ram/swap used) :) | 01:25 |
| RST38h | Shadow: It is ok: mapped != allocated | 01:25 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 01:26 |
| ShadowJK | that's my point. | 01:26 |
| RST38h | Also, look at the file dialog: it still maps 100+MB | 01:26 |
| javispedro | RST38h: nope, SDL uses XShm after all. | 01:26 |
| RST38h | javis: Hmm...ok | 01:26 |
| dotblank3 | It would be awesome if someone ported electric sheep | 01:26 |
| RST38h | <sleep> | 01:27 |
| * javispedro can't go to sleep untils vista vm's 300 upgrades get applied | 01:27 | |
| javispedro | even though I'm considering plugging the virtual plug though. It's damn slow. | 01:28 |
| javispedro | s/pluggin/unpluggin | 01:28 |
| pupnik_ | javispedro what do you think about sdl programs drawing to gtk pixbuf or whatever is needed for integration into clutter | 01:29 |
| javispedro | pupnik_: sdl programs should be integrated into clutter already. | 01:29 |
| pupnik_ | oh ok | 01:29 |
| pupnik_ | >_< | 01:29 |
| javispedro | drnoksnes is going through X11. it's one of the reasons I'm reticent to go RST's way and bang fb0. | 01:29 |
| javispedro | try drnoksnes windowed mode and switch tasks | 01:30 |
| javispedro | it works even in x86 sdk | 01:30 |
| johnsq | javispedro: with shared memory and dga x11 has the same speed like fb | 01:30 |
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| dotblank3 | would aircrack-ng run? | 01:31 |
| pupnik_ | just about to test now javispedro | 01:31 |
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| * VDVsx needs a name for a small app that will enable HID support in maemo5 and will help to connect keyboards o_0 | 01:31 | |
| javispedro | "WTFDIDNOKIAFORGETTHIS" | 01:31 |
| javispedro | abbv. wdnfgt | 01:32 |
| javispedro | abbv. wdnft (i can't spell...) | 01:32 |
| greenfly | VDVsx: nothumbs | 01:32 |
| javispedro | johnsq: i don't think xomap supports dga... | 01:33 |
| javispedro | but XShm, sure. | 01:33 |
| halves | hello guys, can anybody help me with n800 and a mono bluetooth headset? | 01:33 |
| lardman | depends what's wrong with it | 01:33 |
| johnsq | javispedro: i have written a c64 emulator long ago. | 01:34 |
| javispedro | using dga in maemo? | 01:34 |
| javispedro | i assumed it is a 386-thing only. | 01:34 |
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| johnsq | javispedro: long a ago, 486 times, no it was portable C code runs also on suns | 01:34 |
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| halves | lardman: I am trying use nokia bh-101 bluetooth headset with n800 to do internet call, but it doesn`t worked | 01:36 |
| lardman | halves: does it pair? Can you hear any audio through it? | 01:36 |
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| halves | lardman: yes it was pair, I can hear a ringtone if I receive a internet call, but when I accept this call, it use the n800`s speakers | 01:38 |
| lardman | might be something specific to the sw | 01:38 |
| lardman | anyone else managed a call using a mono headset? | 01:38 |
| Sargun_screen | Is the Nokia tablet/netbook MAemo based? | 01:39 |
| Arkenklo | Sargun_screen: no, windows 7 | 01:39 |
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| Sargun_screen | Arkenklo: Are you serious, or was that a bad joke? | 01:40 |
| halves | lardman: I don`t found any option to configure it. | 01:40 |
| Arkenklo | Sargun_screen: speaking about the netbook/laptop | 01:40 |
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| Sargun_screen | Arkenklo: Fuuuck. | 01:40 |
| Arkenklo | Nokia Booklet | 01:40 |
| Sargun_screen | and it looked so cool. | 01:40 |
| Arkenklo | let me doublecheck that | 01:40 |
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| Lantz | Anyone know anything about "Cold Serial Flash" on N810? | 01:41 |
| javispedro | Arkenklo: no need, it's true. | 01:41 |
| lardman | halves: I don't know I'm afraid. Might be worth a post to the maemo-users list to ask if anyone else has had it working, or if it's a limitation of the call software | 01:41 |
| Arkenklo | javispedro: thanks | 01:41 |
| Sargun_screen | I wish the N900 had an OLED screen | 01:41 |
| Arkenklo | indeed it is a massive fail by nokia installing windows | 01:41 |
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| halves | lardman: ok, thanks | 01:42 |
| Sargun_screen | Arkenklo: I wonder what modem they are using in it. | 01:42 |
| Arkenklo | actually, a omap-based netbook running maemo would have been pretty nice, probably not commercially but for the platform | 01:42 |
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| Sargun_screen | I mean $299 for the cost (After rebate), they could probably take $50-$100 off | 01:43 |
| Sargun_screen | With Win7 | 01:43 |
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| Sargun_screen | though, extra development costs are...costly | 01:43 |
| Sargun_screen | :-P | 01:43 |
| Arkenklo | releasing another generic atom netbook seems extremely redundant | 01:44 |
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| Arkenklo | anyway, I should be going to bed | 01:44 |
| Sargun_screen | Arkenklo: nokia has a brand | 01:44 |
| Sargun_screen | they make good hardware | 01:44 |
| Arkenklo | I guess, well, even the best makes mistakes | 01:45 |
| Sargun_screen | if they had a good alternative UI, etc... | 01:45 |
| Solarion | stupid Windows | 01:45 |
| Arkenklo | this is a multi million dollar company we're talking about after all | 01:45 |
| Solarion | I want my flying car | 01:46 |
| Arkenklo | they can only be that awesome | 01:46 |
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| ShadowJK | I guess booklet has one feature: fanless | 01:46 |
| Sargun_screen | Aren't a couple other ones fanless? | 01:46 |
| * ShadowJK hasn't heard of any before | 01:47 | |
| javispedro | man, why's windows vista update speed "1 update per hour"????? :( | 01:47 |
| Arkenklo | I laugh just at the thought of anything branded Nokia that has a fan | 01:47 |
| ShadowJK | not that it matters, they are samle class as booklet: unobtanium :) | 01:47 |
| Arkenklo | javispedro: because that's how ofter security gets breached | 01:47 |
| Arkenklo | or well, that's how often they detect one | 01:47 |
| javispedro | but I have 300 updates to do! | 01:47 |
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| Arkenklo | javispedro: 300 viruses knocking at your door! | 01:48 |
| Lantz | Anyone know anything about "Cold Serial Flash" on N810? I have 3 that wont boot (even in reflash mode) No indicator LED when pluggen into charger... Nothing | 01:48 |
| * ShadowJK is curous about their battery voltage | 01:50 | |
| javispedro | first interesting question of the night ;) | 01:51 |
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| javispedro | did anybody get cold flash working? I remember reading so. | 01:51 |
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| javispedro | lol. | 01:52 |
| javispedro | 110/270 updates installed. | 01:52 |
| javispedro | the rest faile.d | 01:52 |
| Lantz | I can fabricate the docking station to access the contacts but don't know where to go from there | 01:52 |
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| Arkenklo | I'm suprised that none of the 371 geeks in here have shouted at him to stop using microsoft products and install linux | 01:53 |
| javispedro | Arkenklo: did you miss our conversation about VB6 just about an hour ago? ;) | 01:53 |
| Arkenklo | javispedro: I must have | 01:53 |
| javispedro | don't worry, this is a VM. | 01:53 |
| Arkenklo | crap, I hate vb6, and to make things worse, I'm forced to use it weekly | 01:54 |
| ShadowJK | arkenklo: warning examples speak best for themselves | 01:54 |
| Firebird | javispedro, do you have the changes to SDL1.3 documented anywhere? | 01:54 |
| javispedro | Firebird: sdl documentation task started like... a week ago. they only have 5 or 6 functions documented. | 01:54 |
| javispedro | in the off documentation, i don't remember if they have any generated docs. | 01:55 |
| Firebird | javispedro, I meant the changes necessary for it to work on maemo | 01:55 |
| javispedro | s/off/oficial | 01:55 |
| Firebird | ...properly | 01:55 |
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| lcuk | whats broken in it | 01:55 |
| javispedro | Firebird: i think sdl 1.2 was shipped "as is" without any specific patches, lemme check. | 01:55 |
| Firebird | something about color being messed up or something like that.. according to javispedro | 01:55 |
| Corsac | Khertan_: hey, seen you're an SFR user | 01:56 |
| Corsac | Khertan_: which kind of contract do you have? | 01:56 |
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| * javispedro checks logs | 01:56 | |
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| Firebird | javispedro, Oct 09 21:09:46 <javispedro> if upstream, get my sample to get some of the egl parameters. | 01:57 |
| javispedro | ah, yeah. | 01:57 |
| javispedro | actually, I got them from a mailing list post. | 01:58 |
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| Firebird | ah | 01:58 |
| javispedro | but the issue at hand is not wrong colors, but that it won't found any "compatible" option set. | 01:58 |
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| javispedro | Firebird: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020517.html | 01:59 |
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| Firebird | thanks | 01:59 |
| javispedro | so be sure sdl-1.3 does not set EGL_RED, GREEN, ... _SIZE and you'll be fine | 02:00 |
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| Firebird | though, I don't think SDL uses EGL.. does it? | 02:02 |
| lardman | night all | 02:02 |
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| javispedro | Firebird: only way to get a oglesv2 renderable. | 02:02 |
| javispedro | gnite lardman | 02:02 |
| Firebird | ah | 02:02 |
| javispedro | no glx in oglesv2 | 02:02 |
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| javispedro | (and oglesv1 for the matter) | 02:03 |
| lcuk | javis, you didnt use sdl at first did you | 02:03 |
| javispedro | lcuk: nope, the triangle test was as bare metal as possible. | 02:03 |
| javispedro | X11 + EGL. | 02:03 |
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| * lcuk nods | 02:03 | |
| * lcuk has presentation working :) | 02:04 | |
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| pupnik | reboot loop on n900 | 02:04 |
| pupnik | from some desktop widget apparently | 02:04 |
| javispedro | ouch. | 02:04 |
| lcuk | with the extra bits | 02:04 |
| Firebird | aha, I found it | 02:04 |
| lcuk | pupnik, i thought mine was in a reboot loop | 02:04 |
| pupnik | would be nice if device detected reboots and what it launched to cause the crash | 02:04 |
| lcuk | until i realised the other end of usb wasnt plugged in | 02:04 |
| lcuk | and it was just not charged :$ | 02:05 |
| pupnik | eh? | 02:05 |
| javispedro | pupnik: i thought it did that ? | 02:05 |
| pupnik | oh this has been chargin but i double check | 02:05 |
| javispedro | I mean, sometimes hildon-desktop boots without any widget. | 02:05 |
| javispedro | at least here on my n810. | 02:05 |
| pupnik | dunno - 13 reboots here | 02:05 |
| javispedro | lmao. | 02:05 |
| javispedro | and they say the n920 will be "ofcourse better" ;) lol | 02:06 |
| pupnik | well unexpected things happen with third party apps, i think that is natural | 02:06 |
| pupnik | it might have been that gpsd monitor desktop applet | 02:06 |
| pupnik | would like to boot into console mode plx | 02:07 |
| pupnik | :| | 02:07 |
| javispedro | pft. the current situation with the firmware sucks. | 02:07 |
| javispedro | the should release the damn flasher already | 02:07 |
| javispedro | s/the/thet | 02:07 |
| javispedro | s/the/they | 02:07 |
| lcuk | the current situation with the firmware is transitional, its not suckage surely | 02:08 |
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| javispedro | Firebird: don't remember right now... you got an n900 to test? | 02:09 |
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| lcuk | javispedro, how do i get qt app onto tablet then without code sourcery - or is that the only way | 02:09 |
| javispedro | lcuk: i've not started developing that idea yet! | 02:09 |
| lcuk | pupnik, add to mailing list, your total failure might make something change | 02:09 |
| javispedro | but of course you need codesourcery, but that's avail for windows | 02:10 |
| lcuk | thats ok | 02:10 |
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| * lcuk heads back to lb pres | 02:10 | |
| javispedro | lcuk: i'd get the codesourcery toolchain from their webpage, try to crossbuild qt (or get it from the device) and try to configure qt-creator to use that. | 02:10 |
| javispedro | and hope no more libs required :) | 02:11 |
| Firebird | javispedro, no | 02:11 |
| lcuk | hand waving, complex for either of us | 02:11 |
| javispedro | Firebird: uh.. dev program? | 02:11 |
| pupnik | now i have a paused "5 dots" animation and the status light is slowly flashing orange :( | 02:11 |
| Firebird | javispedro, nope, failed to make the mark | 02:11 |
| javispedro | ouch. | 02:11 |
| pupnik | i think flashing orange is kernel panic | 02:11 |
| lcuk | are the lights included in the pdf documentation i wonder | 02:12 |
| pupnik | hehe | 02:12 |
| javispedro | Firebird: that's bad, cause from what I found, the sdk libgles2-dev is way more forgiving than the device one. | 02:12 |
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| Firebird | hm, javispedro I'm modifying the pandora driver for maemo, shouldn't that work? | 02:13 |
| javispedro | the keyword here is "should" ;) | 02:13 |
| Firebird | heh | 02:13 |
| javispedro | I had something that worked flawlessly in both libgles2-dev and powervr sdk, but not on device. | 02:13 |
| lcuk | strange | 02:13 |
| pupnik | "your total failure might make something change" is about the most hopeful thing i've heard in a long time, lcuk :) | 02:13 |
| javispedro | but I guess who did the pandora driver had an actual pandora... | 02:14 |
| lcuk | i had something which worked flawlessly on my device but not on the big day | 02:14 |
| lcuk | lol pupnik | 02:14 |
| lcuk | i havent heard of anyone bricking them yet | 02:14 |
| lcuk | and its been a week | 02:14 |
| javispedro | lcuk: i have. | 02:14 |
| lcuk | o_O who else | 02:14 |
| lcuk | long line? | 02:14 |
| javispedro | er.. someone did apt-get dist-upgrade to extras. | 02:14 |
| javispedro | extras-devel. | 02:14 |
| javispedro | can't remember the name, but it's all on tmo. | 02:14 |
| pupnik | this is really good for me so i can have some time to fix up things around the house | 02:15 |
| javispedro | (I wish I could have an n900 to brick lol ) | 02:15 |
| lcuk | ahhh yes, but i think they were still at summit | 02:15 |
| lcuk | and there was a big red warning | 02:15 |
| javispedro | lcuk: think not... | 02:15 |
| lcuk | and he got it flashed afaik | 02:15 |
| Firebird | javispedro, the pandora driver sets those attributes: "wdata->gles_attributes[attr_pos++] = EGL_GREEN_SIZE;" | 02:15 |
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| lcuk | :D | 02:15 |
| fiferboy | that was me | 02:15 |
| fiferboy | that got it flashed at summit | 02:15 |
| fiferboy | someone else talked about it on t.m.o | 02:16 |
| lcuk | lol trust you fiferboy ! | 02:16 |
| fiferboy | of course! I've got to try it... | 02:16 |
| lcuk | heh | 02:17 |
| fiferboy | brb | 02:17 |
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| javispedro | Firebird: well, for sure they don't work in N900. | 02:17 |
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| javispedro | well, unless they changed that in latest device. | 02:17 |
| Firebird | ah, can maemo gles double buffer? | 02:19 |
| javispedro | didn't try. | 02:19 |
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| Firebird | "/* Under PND OpenGL ES output can't be double buffered */" | 02:20 |
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| javispedro | any clue what PND means here? | 02:20 |
| Firebird | pandora | 02:20 |
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| javispedro | uh. | 02:20 |
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| pupnik | i think triple buffering works well for gl, but if orgots | 02:22 |
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| pupnik | Firebird what you looking at for gl app? | 02:23 |
| javispedro | sdl-1.3 port. everytime I see news about the lib it seems more interesting. | 02:24 |
| Firebird | pupnik, going a port of the pandora SDL1.3 driver, double buffering is disabled here | 02:24 |
| Firebird | *doing | 02:24 |
| javispedro | btw | 02:24 |
| pupnik | cool cool | 02:24 |
| javispedro | Firebird: why did you started off the pandora version, and not upstream trunk? | 02:24 |
| pupnik | what have they done with it that is useful? | 02:24 |
| pupnik | same question | 02:24 |
| Firebird | javispedro, eh? I'm using the pandora driver in the upstream trunk | 02:24 |
| Firebird | there's a ipod driver in here too | 02:25 |
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| javispedro | uuh??? | 02:25 |
| javispedro | that rings a warning bell. | 02:25 |
| Firebird | really | 02:25 |
| javispedro | does "pandora driver" depend on X11? | 02:25 |
| * Firebird goes check | 02:25 | |
| javispedro | if it does not, you're fscked. killing x11 is not an option in maemo. | 02:26 |
| javispedro | unless you want to bang fb0 and draw over everything like rst38 ;) | 02:26 |
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| javispedro | don't say that a non-x11 driver would be useless (it may work for fullscreen), but ensure there's a x11 gles driver in there. | 02:27 |
| pupnik | i picture the maemo helicopters coming to pick rst up at night | 02:27 |
| javispedro | lol | 02:28 |
| pupnik | i was just going to try drnoksnes out for the first time, too | 02:28 |
| ali1234 | hmm... g++ doesn't like static libs? | 02:28 |
| Firebird | javispedro, hmm, don't see anything x11 related in the gles bits | 02:28 |
| Firebird | its using pure egl it looks like | 02:29 |
| javispedro | that's called "native" iirc | 02:29 |
| javispedro | man, I have too many temp folders | 02:29 |
| * javispedro creates another and checkouts sdl trunk | 02:30 | |
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| Firebird | javispedro, there is a opengles file in the x11 driver folder | 02:31 |
| Firebird | guess we could just use that driver | 02:32 |
| Firebird | alright, fixed the EGL attributes, now to remove junk from the source tree | 02:33 |
| lcuk | can i just use gstreamer to play a movie | 02:33 |
| lcuk | like i currently have gstreamer showing live camera | 02:34 |
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| javispedro | well, gnite | 02:43 |
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| zerojay | GAN900: Connection issues? | 03:08 |
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| zerojay | I'm installing browser plugins with my package. To avoid needing a reboot or two, I wanted to restart the browser daemon (/etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon.init restart). Is there anything I need to worry about when doing this? Are there any negative issues that crop up for the user because of it? | 03:19 |
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| Firebird | hurray, SDL13 with OpenGLES2.0 is now going through the autobuilder | 03:23 |
| pupnik | :) ? | 03:23 |
| pupnik | firebird, so a project like secret maryo world could use that | 03:23 |
| pupnik | afaict, the sdl just sets up the gl env | 03:24 |
| Firebird | yea, and my own project | 03:24 |
| pupnik | what project? | 03:24 |
| zerojay | I smell some Super Mario War. :) | 03:24 |
| Firebird | zerojay, thought that was already on maemo4 | 03:24 |
| zerojay | Firebird: Sure was. | 03:24 |
| Firebird | pupnik, http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/slysics/ | 03:24 |
| pupnik | ty | 03:25 |
| guysoft42 | hey all, i am trying to compile the N810 generic. and i seem to get an error: http://pastebin.com/m30537037 | 03:26 |
| pupnik | oh yea.... | 03:26 |
| zerojay | Does a postinst script need to be executable? | 03:26 |
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| pupnik | guysoft42 - you using a different compiler than package maintainera? | 03:28 |
| Firebird | well this is odd, SDL_Flip isn't redrawing the screen in fullscreen mode (at least on the SDK) | 03:28 |
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| guysoft42 | pupnik, i am using sandbox2 | 03:30 |
| pupnik | we have hwsurface? ? :) | 03:30 |
| guysoft42 | pupnik, [SB2 devel diablo4.1.2_armel] | 03:30 |
| pupnik | ah | 03:30 |
| guysoft42 | :( | 03:32 |
| guysoft42 | is there any .config file i need, maybe? | 03:32 |
| guysoft42 | didn't anyone here ever compile the maemo kernel? | 03:34 |
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| pupnik | not i | 03:34 |
| ali1234 | guysoft42: __bad_udelay means the module is delaying for too long | 03:35 |
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| guysoft42 | ali1234, so how can i solve that? | 03:35 |
| ali1234 | well i'd guess those drivers are delaying based on cpu jiffies or something, and expect a very dfferent clock speed. why are you even compiling them? | 03:37 |
| guysoft42 | ali1234, i just wanted it to compile venilla, what i really want is just to compile acm_cdc module | 03:41 |
| ali1234 | build it out of kernel then | 03:41 |
| ali1234 | actually i'm not sure if you can get the headers to do that | 03:42 |
| ali1234 | anybody? | 03:42 |
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| guysoft42 | ali1234, all i did was download the kernel source package, and compile with the generic .config, no luck | 03:42 |
| ali1234 | which source package, which config and which compiler? | 03:43 |
| guysoft42 | ali1234, maemo-sdk compiler | 03:43 |
| guysoft42 | ali1234, kernel-source i think it is | 03:43 |
| guysoft42 | ali1234, used this: http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install-debian.html | 03:44 |
| ali1234 | and what steps to build kernel? | 03:45 |
| ali1234 | http://maemo.org/community/oldwiki/howto-kernelcompilation/ ? | 03:46 |
| ali1234 | hmm that's a bit old? | 03:46 |
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| guysoft42 | ali1234, i more or less had that | 03:50 |
| ali1234 | i think you must be using a wrong .config because n810 does not use any of those failing modules | 03:51 |
| ali1234 | but i can't really help any more than that cos i've never done it on this hardware | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=220601177&cid=NL_eet hmm | 03:51 |
| ali1234 | but maybe this can help you: http://koltsoff.com/pub/hello-n800/ | 03:51 |
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| Solarion | boo-riiing | 04:26 |
| penguinbait | ~ding | 04:26 |
| infobot | dong | 04:26 |
| Firebird | hm, the autobuilder seems to have frozen | 04:27 |
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| zerojay | really? :/ | 04:32 |
| clmntch | what size should icons in a treeview be? | 04:32 |
| clmntch | 32x32 or 24x24 | 04:32 |
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| bobbyd | hi | 04:50 |
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| Andril | hello all | 04:52 |
| bobbyd | does anyone know if the fennec browser uses the new tracemonkey javascript VM from firefox 3.5? | 04:53 |
| zerojay | no idea, sorry. | 04:53 |
| Andril | sorry | 04:54 |
| bobbyd | looks like it does from the developer page | 04:54 |
| bobbyd | that'll make a large difference on JS heavy pages | 04:54 |
| bobbyd | it does on my netbook | 04:54 |
| bobbyd | Gecko 1.9.1 apparently | 04:54 |
| bobbyd | I wonder if Adobe will hardware accelerate flash, if it's not already | 04:55 |
| bobbyd | if it's not and they did, it could be amazing | 04:55 |
| bobbyd | it'll be interesting to profile the machine when it's running flash :) | 04:55 |
| bobbyd | (the n900) | 04:56 |
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| bobbyd | could someone with a device maybe find out what gecko runtime the current browser uses? | 04:58 |
| Andril | anyone working working on android? | 04:59 |
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| ali1234 | bobbyd: how to check? | 05:05 |
| ali1234 | about: says "gecko/20090928 firefox/3.5" | 05:06 |
| Andril | any n810 users on? | 05:06 |
| bobbyd | hmm | 05:06 |
| bobbyd | ali1234: so maybe it's already the new vm | 05:07 |
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| ali1234 | also, the n900 does a better job of fullscreen youtube than my desktop pc | 05:07 |
| bobbyd | ali1234: thanks | 05:07 |
| bobbyd | ali1234: is your desktop a Pentium 3? :) | 05:07 |
| bobbyd | I just saw a video of bbc iplayer on the n900 on youtube | 05:07 |
| ali1234 | no, it's a pentium 4. apparently they're worse | 05:07 |
| bobbyd | I suppose the guy might have had 20 things running in the background | 05:08 |
| ali1234 | it's 8 years old anyway | 05:08 |
| bobbyd | right | 05:08 |
| ShadowJK | fullscreen without hwaccel is extremely cpu intensive even on desktop :) | 05:08 |
| ali1234 | yes, it is | 05:09 |
| ali1234 | but all it takes is three or four embedded youtube videos to kill my PC, even if none of them or playing | 05:09 |
| ShadowJK | that's just flash being crap :-) | 05:10 |
| ShadowJK | runnig the player interffaces | 05:10 |
| ali1234 | it really sucks | 05:12 |
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| zerojay | jeremiah: You there? | 05:14 |
| ali1234 | is there any way i can stop ssh-agent from asking for my passphrase every time i use ssh inside scratchbox? | 05:16 |
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| jaem_N810 | happy weekend | 05:17 |
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| penguinbait | not really | 05:17 |
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| jaem_N810 | oh? | 05:18 |
| penguinbait | just disappointed with some peoples actions | 05:18 |
| jaem_N810 | :( | 05:18 |
| b-man17 | hello penguinbait :) | 05:19 |
| penguinbait | hey b-man | 05:19 |
| penguinbait | whats been up | 05:19 |
| zerojay | yo pb. | 05:20 |
| penguinbait | hey zj | 05:20 |
| zerojay | Anyone awake that can help me with a packaging issue? | 05:20 |
| zerojay | postinst in particular? | 05:20 |
| b-man17 | penguinbait: nothing much at the moment - just playing with LFS :) | 05:20 |
| penguinbait | probably not zj, but whats the issue | 05:21 |
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| penguinbait | hey zerojay are you developing something? | 05:22 |
| zerojay | I'm installing AdBlock Plus for MicroB.. and I want the user to get a warning after installation telling them that all browser windows need to be closed before it will work. | 05:22 |
| zerojay | penguinbait: I've made a .deb of about 25 classic gaming wallpapers in extras-testing now and I'm working on bringing AdBlock Plus and Flashblock to the browser. | 05:23 |
| penguinbait | so you need a popup window with an OK or something? | 05:23 |
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| zerojay | Yeah, I know how to do it, but for some reason it's just not coming up even though I know the command is right. Aside from this one little issue, the package is ready for testing and works fine. | 05:23 |
| zerojay | Basically the package manager will fire up a script called "postinst" after install and... just seems like I'm missing something here to make this work. | 05:24 |
| zerojay | Other than that, no, nothing else being developed on my end yet. I'm not really a seasoned programmer anyways. | 05:24 |
| zerojay | I'd start on Facebook chat but I'm sure Collabora's already working on it with the stuff I sent them to get it working in Diablo. | 05:25 |
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| zerojay | http://code.google.com/p/msn-pecan/ - might be interesting to get this working through telepathy-haze. | 05:27 |
| MoRpHeUz | ali1234: try using ssh-add ? | 05:28 |
| ali1234 | "Could not open a connection to your authentication agent" | 05:28 |
| ali1234 | i guess i'll just have to keep another shell open outside sbox | 05:28 |
| MoRpHeUz | ali1234: probably you need to correctly setup the SSH_AUTH_SOCK env var | 05:29 |
| MoRpHeUz | ali1234: echo $SSH_AUTH_SOCK outside scratchbox and put the same value on the var inside scratchbox | 05:29 |
| MoRpHeUz | or if you're starting for the first time ssh-agent: eval "$(ssh-agent)" | 05:29 |
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| jaem_N810 | hmm | 05:35 |
| jaem_N810 | is it possible to install an ssh daemon in the Maemo Diablo SDK VM? I get package issues, due to the age of the Ubuntu version it's based on | 05:36 |
| Firebird | mmm, still frozen | 05:36 |
| ali1234 | jaem_N810: can you dist-upgrade it? | 05:36 |
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| ali1234 | (probably not a good idea) | 05:38 |
| * b-man17 wouldn´t | 05:39 | |
| b-man17 | (recomending from experience ;) ) | 05:40 |
| jaem_N810 | b-man17: I concurr | 05:42 |
| jaem_N810 | sounds like a recipe for Badness | 05:42 |
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| penguinbait | zerojay do you know if it is even running your script | 05:51 |
| wirelessdreamer | once the scratchbox and the skd are installed with nokia-binaries and i'm in Xeypher after running af-sb-init.sh start, should I have a virual functioning n900? or is it still missing most of the default apps? | 05:53 |
| wirelessdreamer | *skd = sdk | 05:53 |
| Firebird | not exactly | 05:53 |
| zerojay | penguinbait: I'm not. | 05:57 |
| zerojay | Not sure it's being run, I mean. | 05:57 |
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| penguinbait | add some lines that echo to a file or pipe some output from the commands to a file in /tmp and see if you getting anything or any errors | 05:58 |
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| penguinbait | I assume permissions are executable | 05:59 |
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| zerojay | Yeah, it's executable. Probably something I didn't notice or don't know about. Probably just will ask jeremiah to look at it tomorrow. | 06:00 |
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| GAN900 | Why the hell did they put a text entry field in scrollable lists in the browser. | 06:22 |
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| Xisdibik | i dunnoz | 06:29 |
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| RurouniJones | What would you use for data storage in your apps? sqlite or your own flatfiles? | 08:04 |
| luke-jr | RurouniJones: depends on the data, obviously | 08:05 |
| RurouniJones | Large amounts of text data for a quiz | 08:05 |
| RurouniJones | I am so used to using DBs. Haven't used my own flatfiles for years. I am wondering if there are any disadvantgaes of useing sqlite on a mobile device. I have never programmed for them before | 08:06 |
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| luke-jr | large amounts of data might better be a ZIP file | 08:08 |
| luke-jr | especially if you only have one key | 08:08 |
| luke-jr | I'm sure there's a library to do it. | 08:09 |
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| RurouniJones | mm, point. I'll look into it | 08:09 |
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| Analias | I'm trying to build the maemo-oe work by rkirti and it cannot find a distribution package for glib2.0-2.18.1-1maemo4+0m5.tar.gz - it use to be under the maemo5.0beta tree. Any suggestions how to resolve this? I suspect I'll have to do the work to update Rkirti's stuff to beta2. | 08:12 |
| lbaroudi | i would like to have one tts app for my n810 ? have anyone tried to do such crazy thing ? | 08:13 |
| luke-jr | lbaroudi: flite? | 08:13 |
| lbaroudi | i would like to have one tts app for my n810 ? have anyone tried to do such crazy thing ? :) | 08:16 |
| lbaroudi | what is flite luke :) ?? | 08:16 |
| RurouniJones | Woohoo, SDK finally installed and working. I am squealing like a small gitl. | 08:17 |
| lbaroudi | tts = text to speech ! | 08:17 |
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| TheNewAndy | lbaroudi: flite is a tts program - it works on my n810 | 08:26 |
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| lbaroudi | thanks newandy ;) | 08:29 |
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| RurouniJones | I am reading the various installation pages and just noticed. There is a Beta2 SDK and a Final SDK? | 08:32 |
| RurouniJones | For Maemo5 | 08:32 |
| RurouniJones | Most of the pages link to the beta2 installation instructions but I stumbled upon one called "Final SDK" | 08:33 |
| RST38h | that is because the final sdk is only available for the short time | 08:36 |
| RST38h | But maemo.org should link to it of course | 08:37 |
| RurouniJones | Ok, I wondered if that was the case | 08:37 |
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| GAN900 | qole really just didn't . . . http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=348736&postcount=88 | 08:59 |
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| RST38h | Ahhahaahaha | 09:05 |
| RST38h | Frankly, I have been trying to find penguinbait but still do not know how he looks | 09:05 |
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| RST38h | If it's typical density, it would create a 4 kiloton explosion in the Earth's atmosphere if it were to hit, which of course it won't. You'd expect an object of this size to fly within the orbit of the moon every few days or so. (that's tonight) | 09:16 |
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| RurouniJones | Is there ongoing work to bring pyqt to freemantle? | 09:34 |
| lbaroudi | n810 and waht is mer ??????? | 09:39 |
| RST38h | what is google? | 09:39 |
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| range | RST38h: Some kind of search thingy for the intarweb | 09:40 |
| SpeedEvil | http://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/n900meetup/ | 09:41 |
| SpeedEvil | not seen | 09:41 |
| SpeedEvil | slightly implies avaiability of 80 n900s in helsinki on the 21st | 09:42 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 09:48 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ | 09:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Fails to actually mention that it's a phone too. | 09:48 |
| RurouniJones | Hehehe | 09:48 |
| RurouniJones | Who cares about that? | 09:50 |
| absolute | what's the n900 meetup about? other than dates and locations, there doesn't seem to be much indication of what's going on | 09:50 |
| SpeedEvil | nope. | 09:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'd be somewhat surprised if there weren't n900s there though | 09:51 |
| RurouniJones | No tokyo meetups. Shame :) | 09:51 |
| RST38h | heh when you click on Moscow orLondon, you can't go back | 09:51 |
| absolute | i could understand maemo events... but an n900 meetup? | 09:51 |
| absolute | the chicago meetup is a day before i go to toronto | 09:53 |
| absolute | but if there are only 80 seats, it might be best if i knew what it was before i sign up, i suppose | 09:54 |
| RST38h | probably marketing thing | 09:54 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - only good if you're in the area | 09:54 |
| RST38h | bunch of bloggers come for freebies and get fed by marketing speeches | 09:54 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd be really surprised if you couldn't buy one there though | 09:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | IF you can't, there will be riots. | 09:55 |
| RST38h | bloggers are kinda meek and they come for free goods anyway, so no riots | 09:55 |
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| RurouniJones | Hmm no built in PDF reader with Maemo5? | 09:55 |
| RST38h | pdf reader is there | 09:56 |
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| RurouniJones | Ok, jus tnot with the sdk? | 09:56 |
| RurouniJones | I am poking around the SDK version and can't find anything obvious | 09:57 |
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| RurouniJones | Hehe, unintentionally morbid. Setup an event like a birthday and set it to repeart yearly then you have an option to specify until which year to repeat to. "When do you think this person is gonna die" | 10:03 |
| Stskeeps | normal :P | 10:03 |
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| RurouniJones | Yeesh, I ain't making it easy for myself am I. I want to start programming for Maemo5 using qt and python | 10:09 |
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| absolute | oic | 10:12 |
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| absolute | yeah, i read that wrong too... november 2nd in chicago, not february 11th... i could catch the amtrak, but from the statements made, sounds not entirely worth the trouble of taking a day off of work | 10:13 |
| absolute | "you’ll be able to meet and greet some Nokia folks and, of course, get hands-on experience with the Nokia N900." | 10:14 |
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| absolute | i hope the hands on i have at that point is with my own device | 10:14 |
| absolute | hehe | 10:14 |
| Lupu | RurouniJones: Have you looked at pyside? | 10:14 |
| RurouniJones | No, Haven't seen any references to that yet | 10:14 |
| RurouniJones | ok, same goal as pyqt. Righto | 10:15 |
| * RurouniJones will look into it. Ta | 10:16 | |
| Lupu | Pyside is another python QT binding, from Nokia | 10:16 |
| Lupu | http://www.pyside.org/ | 10:16 |
| Stskeeps | god, the back button in browser is retarded. | 10:16 |
| RurouniJones | Ok, I am new to all of this so is my thining correct; Pyside is gonna bind Python to QT and QT will eventually add hildon widgets...so if I am understanding this correctly we will need pyside to also do bindings to the QT hildon widgets to get a nice lookin N900 app? | 10:18 |
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| Lupu | RurouniJones: Which do you want, Hildon or Qt? | 10:30 |
| Lupu | If you want to make an app that looks 'native' for Maemo 5, you can use python-hildon | 10:31 |
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| RurouniJones | http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon/Qt_Hildon_Widgets <- That rather implies that Qt will eventualy have hildon style widgets I thought. | 10:32 |
| Lupu | That's how I understood it also. | 10:34 |
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| RurouniJones | So if we wnat to Use somethign like pyside and have a native looking app then we will need special bindings to these new Qt hildon style widgets? | 10:34 |
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| Lupu | I don't know. | 10:36 |
| RurouniJones | Ok | 10:36 |
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| RurouniJones | Maybe I'll start with python-hildon. Seems the least painful way for a beginner | 10:37 |
| Lupu | All I know is that the current UI is hildon, so 'get a nice lookin N900 app' like you mentioned before, you'd want to use python-hildon. Both Qt and Hildon will coexist, but I think it's a little early to start worrying about Qt if what you need is Hildon. | 10:37 |
| RurouniJones | Righto | 10:39 |
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| tru | well, Qt maps to hildon widgets. | 10:48 |
| tru | and the Qt apps I have built for maemo 5 seems to look pretty good | 10:48 |
| tru | i.e. pretty similar to what you get out of a hildon program. | 10:48 |
| tru | and since maemo 6 will be qt all around it seems like a waste learning hildon now. better to go Qt directly. AND the API is nicer :) | 10:49 |
| tru | (imho of course) | 10:49 |
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| Lupu | tru: I thought both Qt and Hildon will continue to coexist on Maemo 6 | 10:56 |
| Lupu | I've read some pretty bad reviews of pyside, but I don't have any first hand experience with it, so I don't know if it's mature enough to really work with. | 10:57 |
| tru | Lupu: yes, but Qt will be the first class citizen there. | 10:58 |
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| vasily_pupkin | hi | 11:04 |
| vasily_pupkin | anybody use Mer here? | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | -> #mer | 11:05 |
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| mgedmin | personal-ip-address tells me (no IP found) | 11:20 |
| mgedmin | this can't be right | 11:20 |
| mgedmin | in fact it isn | 11:20 |
| mgedmin | 't | 11:20 |
| mgedmin | fiferboy isn't here... | 11:21 |
| RST38h | too bad. | 11:21 |
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| * RST38h killed Microsoft's "extension" to FireFox | 11:28 | |
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| lardman | morning all | 11:31 |
| RST38h | mourning, lardman | 11:31 |
| mgedmin | why so sad, rst? | 11:31 |
| lardman | morning RST38h, mgedmin | 11:32 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: cloudy, cold, can't hunt down a bug | 11:33 |
| RST38h | On the bright side, VGBA & friends no longer consume any CPU in idle mode at all | 11:34 |
| mgedmin | good | 11:35 |
| mgedmin | I'd like to know why avahi-daemon likes to wake up 30 times a second | 11:35 |
| RST38h | let me read on it | 11:35 |
| RST38h | have you got anyone querying it over the network or locally? | 11:36 |
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| RST38h | heh, firefox officially BLOCKED microsoft plugin just now | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | which plugin? | 11:37 |
| RST38h | that stupid .NET plugin MS forced on us all | 11:38 |
| RST38h | Actually this list makes a good reading : https://www.mozilla.com/en-US/blocklist/ | 11:39 |
| `0660 | on who? windows users? :) | 11:39 |
| RST38h | Microsoft, Apple, Anti-virus vendors, download managers | 11:39 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: http://en.kioskea.net/faq/sujet-2271-disabling-the-avahi-daemon | 11:41 |
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| mgedmin | RST38h: you misunderstand me; I want avahi-daemon running, I have trouble making sure it starts on startup on my N900, I just don't want it to eat any extra battery power | 11:49 |
| lardman | 30 times/sec does seem somewhat excessive | 11:49 |
| lbt | there was a thread on tmo about nominating community people who couldn't make the summit for a free/loan device... anyone got the url? is anything happening? | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, there was a big thread last night | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | so far most people has been sorted out (did you have enough karma btw?) | 11:51 |
| * mgedmin wants iptables again | 11:53 | |
| lardman | hmm, would like to get one to derf really, he was lots of help with the Tremor DSP stuff in the old days | 11:53 |
| mgedmin | scratchbox's LD_PRELOAD overrieds the LD_PRELOAD I use to make apps use my socks proxy | 11:54 |
| mgedmin | so I've got no internet in my scratchbox | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32978 | 11:54 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: yep, 2 devices isn't too much is it? | 11:55 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: i have no opinion on that matter atm :P | 11:55 |
| lbt | heh | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i'm still balancing regarding sending it back to the pool and getting one of my own or what to do. | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | i'm on my 5th reflash of the device, so a devel device is needed.. | 11:56 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Unfrotunately I have not been able to find anything closer to what you need than the stuff above | 11:57 |
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| epa_ | do improvement ideas to Calendar go to bugs.maemo.org or brainstorming ? | 12:05 |
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| RurouniJones | Next probably stupid question. I can't see any references to positioning buttons (Stick to the right etc) from the pymaemo documentation. Is there some underlying gtk stuff I am supposed to know about that allows for this stuff? | 12:08 |
| RST38h | epa: large scale improvement goes to brainstorm, small fixes to bugzilla | 12:09 |
| epa_ | how about multiple small things that amount to large scale changes ;) | 12:12 |
| RST38h | multiple bug trackers. | 12:12 |
| RST38h | and if you want to have any chance of seeing them fixed, file them as problems (i.e. "Cannot do ... in Calendar") | 12:13 |
| epa_ | ack & tack | 12:13 |
| epa_ | RST38h: so enhancement requests go directly to trash? | 12:13 |
| RST38h | more or less | 12:14 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 12:34 |
| frals | mornin | 12:34 |
| lardman | hi Jaffa | 12:35 |
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| mgedmin | crappy cellular coverage here ... | 12:37 |
| frals | where would here be? | 12:38 |
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| mgedmin | right here (look where I'm pointing) | 12:38 |
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| mgedmin | the apartment I'm temporarily staying in | 12:38 |
| mgedmin | move a few centimeters to a side and you're offline | 12:39 |
| frals | never had cell coverage issues in .se | 12:39 |
| frals | or well, never the last 5 years anyway | 12:39 |
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| * lardman curses libchamplain demo code for not working | 12:42 | |
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| lardman | hmm, libchamplain is very slow, even without any maps loaded | 12:45 |
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| lardman | this demo seems to wait for a notify::state signal, where would one of those come from? | 12:48 |
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| lardman | hmm, apparently it should be issued from inside the code itself | 12:49 |
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| zerojay | Any packaging gurus awake? | 12:58 |
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| Corsac | fire | 12:58 |
| zerojay | My package installs an add-on for MicroB which requires the browser daemon to be restarted and all browser windows closed before the add-on is seen. I'm trying to pop up a dialog box telling the user this after the installation is complete using a postinst script, but it doesn't seem to work. :/ | 13:00 |
| zerojay | The script is named "postinst" and is executable. | 13:00 |
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| Corsac | and you're sure it runs? | 13:01 |
| zerojay | I'm not sure, actually. | 13:02 |
| RST38h | postinst usually runs | 13:02 |
| RST38h | but showing a dialog durign installation is no longer that easy | 13:02 |
| Corsac | and might not be a good idea, though | 13:02 |
| zerojay | It's more than just maemo-confirm-text then? | 13:02 |
| zerojay | http://pastebin.com/d5dfebe13 | 13:03 |
| RST38h | maemo-confirm-text may well be missing from the device | 13:03 |
| RST38h | check | 13:03 |
| zerojay | It's there and works. | 13:03 |
| zerojay | And yes, my first line DOES have a # at the start, but pastebin ignored it. :/ | 13:03 |
| RST38h | weird | 13:04 |
| Shapeshifter | yay n900 price dropped once more | 13:04 |
| zerojay | Is the postinst script supposed to be named just "postinst"? | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Sha? | 13:05 |
| Corsac | Shapeshifter: where? | 13:05 |
| Shapeshifter | Corsac: well, in Switzerland ;) | 13:05 |
| Shapeshifter | It's still more expensive than in the US I think | 13:05 |
| SpeedEvil | not in uk | 13:05 |
| Shapeshifter | but cheaper then in most parts of Europe | 13:06 |
| Corsac | especially in france ;p | 13:06 |
| Meizirkki | I just spent 400€ for a Touch Book and now i'm about to spend another 400€ when Nokia gives me a discount of the N900 =_= | 13:06 |
| Corsac | 400€ ? | 13:06 |
| Corsac | I paid my touchbook 300€ | 13:07 |
| Corsac | you mean $400? | 13:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | It'd be nice - if I was a UK dev - if I could just take the cash - on producing my own purchased n900 | 13:07 |
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| Meizirkki | Corsac, it's about 400€ with shipping + taxes + customs | 13:07 |
| Corsac | ha | 13:07 |
| Corsac | I didn't yet paid customs :) | 13:07 |
| Shapeshifter | huh wait... the touchbook is out? the "Always Innovating" french touch book? | 13:07 |
| SpeedEvil | uk dev - with the right karma. | 13:08 |
| Meizirkki | i haven't too | 13:08 |
| Corsac | Shapeshifter: yes | 13:08 |
| Corsac | well, kind-of | 13:08 |
| Corsac | rah | 13:08 |
| Shapeshifter | I completely forgot about it | 13:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | (as a discounted n900 is more expensive than a real one with a contract) | 13:09 |
| epa_ | hmm | 13:09 |
| Corsac | no rotar: kernel-2.6.28/usr: Cannot mkdir: No space left on device | 13:09 |
| epa_ | is it possible to add screenshots to bugreports? | 13:09 |
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| Corsac | SpeedEvil: but with a contract it'll be simlocked | 13:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Corsac: doubt it | 13:09 |
| Corsac | which means only standard and signed kernels | 13:09 |
| * epa_ does not seems to find attachments section in bug report page | 13:09 | |
| Corsac | SpeedEvil: if it's not, fine for you :) | 13:10 |
| Corsac | (in France it'll definitely be) | 13:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Corsac: I mean the current ones - there are secondary markets - stores - offering them direct - though the company does not. | 13:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Corsac: vodafone et al | 13:10 |
| Shapeshifter | will be sim locked here as well, guaranteed. but you can unluck it when the contact runs out | 13:11 |
| Shapeshifter | *lock | 13:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure if they'd know how to simlock it. | 13:11 |
| Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: I'm pretty sure nokia will tell them | 13:12 |
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| mgedmin | "Unable to use FM transmitter while USB is connected. Unplug USB to continue using FM transmitter". Why??? | 13:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | I would suspect the USB acts like an antenna | 13:14 |
| SpeedEvil | making the FM too strong | 13:14 |
| SpeedEvil | And actually asking above phone shop, it would not be locked. | 13:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Too strong FM would be a regulatory issue | 13:16 |
| mgedmin | good point | 13:18 |
| mgedmin | does that mean I can listen to FM radio by plugging in USB cable instead of plugging in headphones? | 13:18 |
| SpeedEvil | umm | 13:18 |
| SpeedEvil | probably not | 13:18 |
| SpeedEvil | the headphones will have a seperate circuit to pick off the signal | 13:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Think of it like the transmitter is a speaker, and the USB lead is a sounding board. | 13:19 |
| mgedmin | speaking of radio, and jumping to internet radio | 13:20 |
| SpeedEvil | It doesn't intentionally make it louder it just happens. | 13:20 |
| mgedmin | the old dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_media_server /com/nokia/osso_media_server com.nokia.osso_media_server.video.play_media string:mms://hostname/etc no longer works in maemo 5 | 13:20 |
| mgedmin | my internet connection here lets me listen to 2 seconds of radio, followed by 3 seconds of "buffering...", repeat ad nauseum | 13:23 |
| mgedmin | there's a spot somewhere on the table where it shows 3.5G, but it's difficult to find | 13:23 |
| mgedmin | now I'm on plain old 2G | 13:23 |
| ifreq | anyone thought about making lcars theme on n900, or is there any allready? | 13:25 |
| ifreq | gotta love lcars on my dusty ol'770 ^__^ | 13:26 |
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| * Jaffa mutters nasty things about tmo (perhaps incl. some of the new council *cough*) | 13:39 | |
| andre__ | argh. switching off the n900 does not warn that you are still receiving data via bluetooth :-( | 13:40 |
| Lupu | andre__: File abug? | 13:41 |
| andre__ | no, that means more work. i'm the bugmaster :-P | 13:42 |
| RurouniJones | Anyone know some good pymaemo apps that would be a good example for looking at methods of laying out an interface on an N900? | 13:44 |
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| lbt | nokia forum form is pretty naff... "City... or Province" .... both mandatory... <sigh> | 13:52 |
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| Jaffa | RurouniJones: gPodder uses GtkBuilder and is Python. My own Hermes just uses Gtk/Hildon directly and might help? | 13:54 |
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| RurouniJones | Hmm, Hermes sounds good. Could you give me a link to the source? | 13:55 |
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| Jaffa | RurouniJones: http://hermes.garage.maemo.org/ has a link on the right hand side | 13:55 |
| RurouniJones | Gracias | 13:55 |
| Jaffa | np | 13:55 |
| Jaffa | RurouniJones: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=hermes;a=blob;f=package/src/gui.py;h=b82a71cc7a9c1e148d663303f30c0b622d4ed102;hb=HEAD is the direct interesting link | 13:56 |
| RurouniJones | Gotchya! Thanks | 13:56 |
| RurouniJones | I am learning Python, Hildon etc all in one go so an example of how things are done is always nice ;) | 13:57 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: Hard not to feel like muttering nasty things, eh? | 13:57 |
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| zerojay | If you're talking about who I think you might be anyways. | 13:57 |
| pupnik_ | anybody know a way to interrupt a n900 reboot loop? | 13:58 |
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| Jaffa | zerojay: Someone I've never met in person, let's say... | 13:58 |
| mgedmin | pupnik_: have you tried methods that work on n8x0? e.g. enable r&d mode | 13:58 |
| pupnik_ | looks like it's getting rebooted by the gps tracker desktop widget - i'd like to disable those | 13:58 |
| pupnik_ | dunno - have root installed | 13:59 |
| Jaffa | RurouniJones: Not saying it's the best way - my Gtk/Hildon is rusty and I'm brushing up my Python at the same time :) | 13:59 |
| mgedmin | pupnik_: try disabling watchdog | 13:59 |
| RurouniJones | Hehe, well better than nothing | 13:59 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: You're doing a sterling job in running your own campaign for the next council election ;-) | 13:59 |
| pupnik_ | i can't do anything on the device mgedmin, :| | 13:59 |
| Jaffa | RurouniJones: However, I like to think I can structure code well (although gui.py needs a *bit* of a refactor) | 13:59 |
| RurouniJones | So far I have muddled my way through the GTK/hildon classes and have a basic GUI up. But it is all fixed positioning etc....Since I come from a web-dev background this seems....wrong :) | 13:59 |
| * mgedmin is available for Python questions, has used PyGtk in the past, hasn't played with Hildon | 14:00 | |
| Jaffa | RurouniJones: Ah yeah. Fixed positioning very bad. | 14:00 |
| mgedmin | pupnik_: you can do that with flasher | 14:00 |
| mgedmin | does flasher-3.0 work with a n900? | 14:00 |
| Jaffa | RurouniJones: Layouts are the way to go. | 14:00 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: Earlier firmware drops from danielwilms included a new Flasher | 14:00 |
| pupnik_ | GOOD idea mgedmin ty | 14:00 |
| RurouniJones | I am arranging buttons using gtklayou.put(button,x,y) style things | 14:00 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: lol... well, thanks. Not trying to.. just trying to get shit I want to see done. :) | 14:00 |
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| Jaffa | RurouniJones: Yeah, you want to set constraints and using boxes etc. Fixed positions won't let your apps run on Mer on devices with different screen sizes (or a possible future Maemo device), won't work with auto-portrait, won't work if the theme has a different font size | 14:01 |
| mgedmin | RurouniJones: check out http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/index.html | 14:02 |
| mgedmin | specifically, http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/ch-PackingWidgets.html#sec-TheoryOfPackingBoxes | 14:02 |
| RurouniJones | Ooooo, spiffy. I never seen that site before...guess I have been to specific in my searches | 14:03 |
| * mgedmin just googled for "pygtk tutorial" | 14:03 | |
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| RurouniJones | I started using python today. I have been searching on specifics like pymaemo, hildon etc | 14:05 |
| Stskeeps | wazd should set up a donation box for his stuff | 14:06 |
| mgedmin | it is possible that more specific tutorials exist | 14:07 |
| Stskeeps | ~seen rkirti | 14:08 |
| lbt | Jaffa: security stuff... | 14:08 |
| infobot | rkirti <n=oespirit@203.199.213.3> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 8d 14h 38m 7s ago, saying: 'kergoth: thanks :)'. | 14:08 |
| Stskeeps | hm | 14:08 |
| RurouniJones | Ok, this is making much more sense now, thanks Jaffa and mgedmin | 14:09 |
| lbt | Jaffa: wondering about sorting out the security questions a bit to see if we can make it a bit more structured | 14:10 |
| Lupu | Has anyone gotten OpenVPN to work with Fremantle? | 14:14 |
| Lupu | I'm surprised there isn't a package for that in extras yet. | 14:15 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: I think we can. Not sure how! | 14:17 |
| pupnik_ | woglinde has qtnx working for freenx on n8x0 | 14:17 |
| lbt | it's easier with more than one brain | 14:17 |
| lbt | thinking about major groupings | 14:17 |
| mgedmin | zerojay: popups during app installation really irritated me in maemo 4 | 14:18 |
| lbt | open/closed mode; drm; kernel; boot | 14:18 |
| lbt | and then putting questions in there | 14:18 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: Why? | 14:18 |
| Jaffa | lbt: yeah, that sounds sensible | 14:18 |
| mgedmin | say you restore your app list from a backup, leave the app manager in the background, go browse web | 14:18 |
| derf | zerojay: Because they didn't work over ssh. | 14:18 |
| lbt | so... major headings ? | 14:18 |
| mgedmin | hours later switch back and see that the reinstallation process is stopped after the first three apps because the third one asks a silly question | 14:18 |
| derf | A non-blocking pop-up would be fine. | 14:18 |
| mgedmin | "ooh, which menu do you want my icon to appear in?" | 14:18 |
| mgedmin | I DONT CARE DAMNIT JUST GO INSTALLING THE REST | 14:19 |
| derf | But blocking ones just meant that the installation would stall for no apparent reason. | 14:19 |
| mgedmin | "ooh, please restart your browser windows to use the new plugin" | 14:19 |
| zerojay | Well, tell me how I can tell the user some information that won't block then. | 14:19 |
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| lbt | http://pastebin.com/d3337bd6a | 14:19 |
| mgedmin | zerojay: yellow notification bar | 14:19 |
| mgedmin | "adblock will be available when you restart your browser" | 14:19 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: And I do that from postinst how exactly? | 14:20 |
| Jaffa | lbt: DRM, Kernel, Capabilities (what was the term Elena used?), Bootloader? | 14:20 |
| mgedmin | I wish I knew... | 14:20 |
| derf | zerojay: What are you doing on postinst now? | 14:20 |
| derf | *in | 14:20 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Not sure "open/closed mode" is that useful - since it breaks down into the others and confuses people as to what it means | 14:20 |
| lbt | ok | 14:20 |
| epa_ | person who ported Xournal for maemo wouldn't happen to be here? | 14:20 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: Well, when you figure out how to popup a hildon banner from a .deb, you let me know. | 14:20 |
| lbt | (bootROM) | 14:20 |
| Jaffa | epa_: anidel (doesn't appear to be) | 14:21 |
| zerojay | derf: Nothing apparently. I'm actually searching for help because my postinst doesn't appear to work. :/ | 14:21 |
| mgedmin | zerojay: tell me how to popup a hildon banner from the cmdline, and I'll tell you how to do that from a .deb ;) | 14:21 |
| mgedmin | something with dbus-send probably | 14:21 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: echo -e 'import hildon\n....' | python / ;-) | 14:21 |
| epa_ | Jaffa: ok thanks | 14:21 |
| derf | zerojay: Oh dear. | 14:21 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: Open a web page? ;-) | 14:21 |
| mgedmin | zerojay: for debugging, put 'touch /tmp/postinst-worked' in your postinst, then see if the file appears | 14:22 |
| zerojay | Yeah, I'm going to do that. | 14:23 |
| lbt | Jaffa: (and others crashanddie_ ?) http://pastebin.com/d7800b4bc | 14:23 |
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| lbt | zerojay: look in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ | 14:24 |
| lbt | see if the postinst is there | 14:24 |
| Jaffa | lbt: s/Functionality/Framework/? | 14:24 |
| archebyte | any recommendations for an irc client on the n900 ? | 14:24 |
| zerojay | lbt: After the package installs? | 14:25 |
| lbt | nah - focus on specific "what" | 14:25 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Maybe a section for people who want to lock & customise their own devices from scratch (e.g. OEMs) | 14:25 |
| lbt | zerojay: yes | 14:25 |
| zerojay | ok | 14:25 |
| lbt | Jaffa: http://pastebin.com/d687ee9cb | 14:26 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: BTW any news on XChat? | 14:26 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: I haven't heard anything (and haven't done anything) | 14:27 |
| Jaffa | lbt: good idea | 14:27 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: The version from qwerty coredumps when saving preferences, although it is the most recent version in the Extras right now | 14:27 |
| mgedmin | did qwerty reupload his package? | 14:27 |
| RST38h | Well he did, but it crashes when saving prefs | 14:27 |
| mgedmin | oops | 14:27 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: a section for end-user FAQs which we'll maintain (a comment at the top saying "this is community answers to common FAQs based on the technical answers below"? | 14:28 |
| lbt | http://pastebin.com/d355999e9 | 14:28 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: So I suggest you reupload yours for now :) | 14:29 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Speaking of end user FAQs, something came up | 14:29 |
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| crashanddie_ | Jaffa, where would the "Customisation" part come up in? | 14:30 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=349425&postcount=62 | 14:30 |
| lbt | http://pastebin.com/d2583bd22 | 14:30 |
| * lbt wondered that too | 14:30 | |
| lbt | Enterprise dm_crypt ? | 14:30 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I gave some directions on this in the thread, but I think it does deserve a clean, illustrated page with instructions | 14:30 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Agreed. http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing isn't very user friendly. | 14:31 |
| lbt | getting s/wich back in sec - edit pastebin if you like :) | 14:31 |
| * Jaffa goes to get some crackers | 14:31 | |
| mgedmin | hm, advanced users can sudo apt-get install xchat=2.8.6-maemo10fremantle1 | 14:31 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Really need to make a dumb page with screenshots | 14:31 |
| crashanddie_ | lbt, Jaffa, I would like to see a credential management system, that would allow people to recover their keys securely if they move to another device | 14:31 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: Thanks | 14:31 |
| crashanddie_ | lbt, Jaffa, allowing them to keep using all of their data, regardless if it is DRM'd or not | 14:32 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Agreed. Both for users (i.e. testers) and authors | 14:32 |
| RST38h | mgedmin <-- advanced user | 14:32 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: There is one more issue | 14:32 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Pretty big diagrams with smiling people and large friendly arrows | 14:32 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I will not comment on the 10-votes-for-each-version policy, but the current way of voting is cumbersome and messy | 14:33 |
| crashanddie_ | arrows that smile | 14:33 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: can skip on smiling people | 14:33 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie_: with flowers | 14:33 |
| crashanddie_ | Jaffa, and pastel colours | 14:33 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: In what way? Isn't it "log on, press up/down, leave comment if downer"? | 14:33 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie_: Always got to have the pastel colours | 14:33 |
| crashanddie_ | true | 14:33 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Oh, no, have you tried it yourself? | 14:33 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: I have | 14:34 |
| crashanddie_ | Jaffa, that being said, wasn't one of the talks at the summit "we have to state the obvious"? | 14:34 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Start here: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/ | 14:34 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Not as much as I should, admittedly | 14:34 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Click on the package: http://maemo.org/packages/view/tennix/ | 14:34 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie_: Never assume your audience has any intelligence ;-) | 14:34 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: click on the right version and architecture: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/tennix/1.0-2 | 14:34 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Oh yeah, it's quite buried in the version and arch | 14:35 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Vote there | 14:35 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: So this is NOT easy | 14:35 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Indeed. | 14:35 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: And I really think we have to have vote up/down right in the first page | 14:35 |
| Jaffa | Each arch gets different votes too | 14:35 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: We only care about latets on armel | 14:35 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: This is kinda non brainer :) | 14:35 |
| crashanddie_ | no we don;t | 14:36 |
| mgedmin | rst listed what you must to do, but didn't mention what you should do: open up voting guidelines and make sure you checked everything that the app should do right | 14:36 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: If app works for the user, the user votes it up. | 14:36 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h, we provide x86 scratchbox, thus we need to make sure it is tested as well, and correctly migrated | 14:36 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Any concrete plans for improving the UI for testers/karma per version (not per version + arch)? If not, we can draft an email or a bug | 14:36 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: this is it | 14:36 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: Indeed | 14:36 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Do you want ALL end users know about it? | 14:36 |
| mgedmin | what about things like 'make sure the icon is there' and 'make sure it doesn't kill your battery life'? | 14:36 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h, of course not, but QA should not be done by end users | 14:36 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: these are guys with N900s. Why should they even SEE i386 packages? | 14:36 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Surprise, Sherlock, current scheme assumes that QA is done by end users | 14:37 |
| RST38h | advanced end users I guess | 14:37 |
| crashanddie_ | really? | 14:37 |
| crashanddie_ | wow | 14:37 |
| RST38h | yep | 14:37 |
| mgedmin | I admit that if I *had* to do QA at that level, I would probably *never* vote, because it would be too much effort | 14:37 |
| crashanddie_ | sorry then, i'll stfu | 14:37 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: See, Marius, you are now looking into the same abyss as me | 14:37 |
| zerojay | Too much effort to click on a link or two? | 14:38 |
| Jaffa | such as, anyone who went to the summit | 14:38 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Unfortunately, Niels et al have not reached this point of understanding yet | 14:38 |
| crashanddie_ | zerojay, it's already too much effort for people to go to bugzilla, you honestly believe they'll give a shit about having the app in extras rather than testing, as long as it runs on their device? | 14:38 |
| zerojay | It takes three clicks to go from the list of packages in extras-testing to posting your vote. | 14:38 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I think that's unfair. It's just there's a lot of infrastructure and X-Fade's not a UI guy | 14:38 |
| pupnik_ | interesting discussion | 14:39 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: It is not about infrastructure or UI | 14:39 |
| Jaffa | So, let's start pulling together concrete suggestions - preferably even with HTML ;-) | 14:39 |
| mgedmin | zerojay: and how many clicks from my browser start page to the package list? | 14:39 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: The current Extras promotion scheme is doomed to keep Extras empty, this is what it is about | 14:39 |
| crashanddie_ | app manager supports voting | 14:39 |
| pupnik_ | how about a few functional 'forms' for N900 prototype testers to use... | 14:39 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: It is; cos the software's being written by one person whilst the process is being defined | 14:39 |
| zerojay | Start here: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/ -> click on package version number -> click thumbs up/thumbs down. Is it really that hard? | 14:39 |
| crashanddie_ | Jaffa, <em>app manager supports voting and promotion</em | 14:39 |
| RST38h | pupnik <--- sayeth the truth | 14:39 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie_: Not going to happen. However, the community app built on top of HAM and pulling down screenshots/comments etc. from maemo.org/downloads could | 14:40 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: So, yes, we should at least partially fix the braindead promotion policy by making it easy to vote and comment | 14:40 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: THIS can be done with HTML and infrastructure changes alone | 14:40 |
| mgedmin | workaround: blog posts | 14:40 |
| crashanddie_ | Jaffa, not possible to write our own app manager? | 14:40 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: How about constructively raising criticisms of the promotion policy on -community or -developers? | 14:40 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie_: Indeed, that's what's coming apparently. | 14:41 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I have raised these issues here with Niels a few times | 14:41 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: And yes, at the same time, doing HTML and UI changes to make it easier to vote | 14:41 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: Btw, only one click to go from browser start page to the package list. | 14:41 |
| mgedmin | "I have just released froobazle 0.2.4-17maemo27whoopsydaisy3, here's a shiny screenshot; if you're a power user upgrade it from extras-devel and please go vote here: [full url to voting page for that particular version]" | 14:41 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I do not think the understanding of this problem has sunk in yet though | 14:41 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: X-Fade doesn't define the promotion policy. He's just implementing /packages/ | 14:41 |
| pupnik_ | true mgedmin | 14:41 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: It's unfair to rail at one guy when it's been discussed on mailing lists | 14:41 |
| zerojay | Start here: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/ -> click on package version number -> click thumbs up/thumbs down. Is it really that hard? | 14:41 |
| crashanddie_ | zerojay, see comment above addressed to you | 14:41 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well, I strongly doubt anyone will listen to me on the list | 14:42 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Right now, I am simply assuming that Maemo4 Extras has been renamed to Extras-Testing in Maemo5 | 14:42 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: And I *know* it isn't productive doing it here. So, you can only get listened to more ;-) | 14:42 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Correct. | 14:42 |
| lcuk | crashanddie_, of course its possible to replace HAM, its just hard to get it right | 14:42 |
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| mgedmin | potential for misunderstanding: people who haven't installed and tested that package may start clicking thumbs up thinking it means "yes I want to have that package available" | 14:42 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well, by doing it here on one-to-one basis, I can bring you people to reality one by one | 14:43 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: That's true and already has happened with some packages. | 14:43 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk, with all of our brains, size of the universe, free coffee and cigarettes? | 14:43 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: You , Niels, etc | 14:43 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: If I post it to the list, the herd mentality will automatically kick in | 14:43 |
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| lcuk | heh even my little widget manager isnt upto snuff | 14:43 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Not if you communicate clearly and don't use terms like "braindead" | 14:43 |
| lcuk | i did ponder it using the database version | 14:43 |
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| zerojay | mgedmin: One guy voted up RST38h's emulators not even realizing it was for Maemo 5. | 14:43 |
| lcuk | cos i had tagging working | 14:43 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: It's not me and Niels you need to convince. | 14:44 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Solution: they should make it even harder to vote! | 14:44 |
| lcuk | i would prefer to see app manager tied directly to downloads | 14:44 |
| lcuk | maemo.org/downloads rather | 14:44 |
| zerojay | It's not even remotely hard now. | 14:44 |
| pupnik_ | ? | 14:44 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: X-Fade said at the summit that that was being worked on | 14:44 |
| lcuk | yeah i know | 14:44 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Verify that voting is done from an n900 and the package is installed | 14:44 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: Split votes by architecture aren't great. | 14:44 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, an easier target initially to prove concept | 14:44 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: You don't even get that option if you're going through it the right way. | 14:45 |
| lcuk | may be the n900wallpapers site | 14:45 |
| lcuk | it offers tagged and rated downloads | 14:45 |
| lcuk | and we need a slick UI for it on device | 14:45 |
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| lcuk | and wallpapers wont break your machine | 14:45 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well, it is enough for me if you or Niels or some other mailing list regular raise this issue at the mailing list | 14:45 |
| lcuk | get it right with that, and transfer the knowledge to a proper full appman | 14:45 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: Right, then the documentation needs to come. If I'm voting on a package, I'll click on its name first (its on the left) | 14:45 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Not looking for spotlight here, just would like to see this fixed | 14:45 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: ok. | 14:46 |
| RST38h | And not turned into another Apple App Store certification nightmare | 14:46 |
| zerojay | lol. | 14:46 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Yes. And you've got valid concerns. Why spend effort trying to convince individuals one at a time when you can convince everyone in one go? | 14:46 |
| zerojay | I don't think that could be possible right now even if we tried to fuck things up that bad. :) | 14:46 |
| * Jaffa has far too much on his plate to pick up *other* people's concerns ;-) | 14:46 | |
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| Lynoure | What would be a good todo app for fremantle? | 14:47 |
| lcuk | i like countdown applet | 14:47 |
| pupnik_ | there's one in the 'desktop' section Lynoure | 14:47 |
| lcuk | for a few little things | 14:47 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Because if I try convincing everyone in one go, I will get a long thread of responses explaining to me why my concerns are invalid and then trailing off in some random direction. happened many times | 14:47 |
| zerojay | Doesn't Calendar already have todo? You get asked if you want to sync todo items when you use Mail for Exchange on the N900. | 14:47 |
| pupnik_ | lcuk: to time how much time the wife gets in bed before going back to hacking>? | 14:47 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I think this should be your concern as well, as you also have stuff in Extras | 14:47 |
| zerojay | pupnik_: Hell yes. Mine's been staying up later and later so I've had less and less time. :/ | 14:48 |
| Lynoure | zerojay: no categories in that one, or could not see them... | 14:48 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I am concerned. I'm not concerned with the principle; as far as I'm concerned it's just the UI/ease-of-use/documentation which needs to improve. | 14:48 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: That would be the first step. The next is probably going to be lowering vote threshold from 10 to 3-5 | 14:48 |
| lcuk | zerojay, yeah the calendar has todo - i have todo sketches in it :P | 14:49 |
| Lynoure | pupnik_: which one in desktop? Cannot really see anything applicable | 14:49 |
| lcuk | somehow | 14:49 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: At least for now, to let a flow of fresh apps into Extras | 14:49 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Of course you CAN raise it later as needed, depending on voting activity | 14:49 |
| zerojay | There's nothing in browser for making sure popup windows aren't opened, is there? | 14:50 |
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| zerojay | Oh... yes, there is. | 14:50 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: In diablo there was a preference for it | 14:50 |
| zerojay | Yeah, just stumbled across it. | 14:51 |
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| guysoft42 | hey again, i am stuck at compiling the maemo kernel, does anyone know how to solve this?: http://pastebin.com/m30537037 what dos : WARNING: "__bad_udelay" [sound/pci/ali5451/snd-ali5451.ko] undefined!mean? | 14:53 |
| guysoft42 | does* | 14:53 |
| mgedmin | savagefb? | 14:56 |
| mgedmin | for the maemo kernel? | 14:56 |
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| mgedmin | what sort of hardware do you intend to run it on? | 14:56 |
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| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_security | 14:57 |
| pupnik_ | Lynoure: i can't recall the name sorry - was something installed as a quick test before i killed my system | 14:57 |
| Corsac | lbt: do you implie with your ?? on customisation that I wasn't very clear? :) | 14:59 |
| lbt | Corsac: yes | 15:00 |
| Corsac | I feared that :) | 15:00 |
| lbt | I think I know what you mean | 15:00 |
| lbt | but I'm not sure how it fits in | 15:00 |
| lbt | all other questions apply | 15:00 |
| lbt | eg custom kernel, initrd, rootfs | 15:01 |
| Corsac | basically, companies may want to use n900 for its people, *because* it can be used in a secure way | 15:01 |
| lbt | agreed | 15:01 |
| Corsac | meaning, secure vpn, storage, communications etc. | 15:01 |
| lbt | however.... what's the question? | 15:01 |
| lbt | I think they'll fit in above | 15:01 |
| Corsac | will it be possible to access hardware security functions in open mode :) | 15:01 |
| lbt | that may be a User FAQ though | 15:02 |
| Corsac | (open because they might require custom kernels) | 15:02 |
| lbt | right so that specific Q is relevant to custom build | 15:02 |
| pupnik_ | nokia's DRM solution is the best solution i'vfor supporting both FOSS and closed SW | 15:02 |
| lbt | but also relevant to lots of other areas too | 15:02 |
| Corsac | yeah | 15:02 |
| pupnik_ | wow - i am chatting while upgrading glibc and INIT | 15:02 |
| mgedmin | Corsac: yes | 15:02 |
| pupnik_ | forgot how awesome linux was | 15:02 |
| lbt | so Custom Build may be a big user FAQ | 15:02 |
| mgedmin | Corsac: the only thing the loader does when it detects an unsigned kernel is disable the DRM crypto keys stored in the hw | 15:02 |
| Corsac | mgedmin: that's a nce “yes” :) | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | famous last words | 15:03 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: :) | 15:03 |
| pupnik_ | :) | 15:03 |
| Corsac | mgedmin: ok | 15:03 |
| mgedmin | according to the presentation and questions asked during the summit | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | mgedmin: as i can read it, disable DRM crypto keys for that signed kernel | 15:03 |
| lbt | I still want an answer to the point I raised in the roo | 15:03 |
| lbt | m | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | so a normal kernel could have crypto keys too | 15:03 |
| lbt | can they reach out and "1984" it | 15:03 |
| pupnik | whoop crash! | 15:03 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: I think there may be some hardware stuff too | 15:04 |
| pupnik | seems related to disk access | 15:04 |
| Corsac | mgedmin: in the slides it's said that they “restrict security functionality” so I wasn't sure :) | 15:04 |
| RST38h | pupnik: You do not yet know what Nokia's DRM solution is | 15:04 |
| pupnik | true i guess | 15:04 |
| RST38h | pupnik: So I would reserve any praise for now. | 15:04 |
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| RST38h | Let's just wait and see | 15:04 |
| Corsac | basically if business can run their own security architecture with a trusted device it can really kick ass | 15:05 |
| Corsac | trusted by them, I mean | 15:05 |
| lcuk | so will mer be on the light side or the dark side? | 15:05 |
| Corsac | there's no dark side | 15:05 |
| lbt | if I can see the signed kernel then I can extract embedded keys | 15:05 |
| RST38h | Mer will be on the technicolor side | 15:05 |
| Corsac | you can extract the signature | 15:05 |
| RST38h | i.e. bright and groovy =) | 15:05 |
| Corsac | :)) | 15:05 |
| Jaffa | Corsac: The question will be: "will a signed kernel and a signed image be able to have the same security features as 'closed' mode?" | 15:06 |
| Jaffa | ...where the signing is *not* done by Nokia | 15:06 |
| lbt | unsigned | 15:06 |
| lbt | ah | 15:06 |
| lcuk | will i be able to share an unsigned .deb with friends who wont want to reboot to see an app | 15:06 |
| lbt | what's the point of signing a kernel from anyone else? | 15:06 |
| SpeedEvil | lbt: so that I can lock my own phone up | 15:06 |
| SpeedEvil | lbt: say | 15:06 |
| Jaffa | i.e. I want to buy 5,000 Maemo 6 devices and ensure that my employees can only use the device in the way *I* want | 15:07 |
| mgedmin | will the default signed image allow me to install debs such as rootsh from extras? | 15:07 |
| Jaffa | I think that's what Corsac meant? | 15:07 |
| lbt | SpeedEvil: you can't | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Or that | 15:07 |
| lbt | the Loader is nokias | 15:07 |
| lbt | and won't recognise your sig | 15:07 |
| lcuk | jaffa good example | 15:07 |
| lcuk | sme will want to use the platform | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | lbt: that does not mean they could do it. For example - you might have a per-device signature | 15:07 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: The question there is: "will the security be at a below-root level, meaning that root access is still accessible." But the question is *why* you want root. | 15:07 |
| lcuk | but their apps wont necessarily be in the global repo | 15:07 |
| Shapeshifter | Does a page a la "tips on how to improve your n900 as a regular linux user" already exist? Where stuff like "edit the init script to allow more than 4 parallel terminal sessions" would be on? | 15:07 |
| lbt | Jaffa: I really hope it is below root | 15:08 |
| Shapeshifter | I'm guessing there's loads of stuff like this | 15:08 |
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| lbt | otherwise it's broken | 15:08 |
| Jaffa | lbt: From the stuff about binary signatures, I think it will be. | 15:08 |
| mgedmin | Shapeshifter: bitten by the 4 pyt limit too? | 15:08 |
| pupnik | wiki it shapeshifter | 15:08 |
| mgedmin | s/pyt/pty/ | 15:08 |
| infobot | mgedmin meant: Shapeshifter: bitten by the 4 pty limit too? | 15:08 |
| Shapeshifter | mgedmin: no, but it'll happen sooner or later. I don't have one yet :| | 15:08 |
| Shapeshifter | mgedmin: and a page for people familiar with linux describing all these problems would be popular | 15:09 |
| pupnik | wiki | 15:09 |
| lbt | Jaffa: as a question: "Would Nokia be prepared to have Bruce Schneier and co review the security architecture?" | 15:10 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Given they've published the security architecture, *anyone* can review it. So is the question more "Would Nokia be willing to pay Bruce Schneier and co review the mid-level design of the security architecture and have his conclusions published?" | 15:11 |
| lbt | I think he'd be interested enough | 15:12 |
| lbt | he works for BT | 15:12 |
| lbt | there's a tie | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | Does he? | 15:12 |
| lbt | yep | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | Didn't know that. | 15:12 |
| lbt | BT bought counterpane | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | Ah | 15:12 |
| lbt | I sent him an email when he joined | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | "Hello, it's me!" | 15:13 |
| Jaffa | :) | 15:13 |
| * Jaffa is finding git easier with Hermes than he has before; btw. | 15:14 | |
| lbt | kinda - plus some internal stuff | 15:14 |
| lbt | it grows on you | 15:14 |
| lbt | gitk ? | 15:14 |
| lizardo | whoever is trying to upload "libsdl-13" version "9999-1" please don't do it :) at least use a sane version number ... otherwise epoch will need to be introduced for this package | 15:14 |
| Jaffa | lbt: quick git q - will `git commit -a' include deleted and new files automatically? Or just ones which are modified and already tracked? | 15:14 |
| Jaffa | lbt: not used it properly yet. Waiting for timsamoff to give me a better www ;-) | 15:15 |
| lbt | -a not new ones , but does do all mods/dels | 15:15 |
| Jaffa | OK, cool. | 15:15 |
| RurouniJones | Is there gonna be any polishing to the app manager? At the moment it has duplicates and package names instead of nice friendly titles. Will there be any quality control in terms of entries etc? | 15:15 |
| Jaffa | That'd be just what I'd want then :) | 15:15 |
| lbt | (otherwise it'd add .o files and crap) | 15:15 |
| lbt | ((unless excluded)) | 15:16 |
| Jaffa | RurouniJones: On Maemo 4 or Maemo 5? | 15:16 |
| Jaffa | lbt: yeah | 15:16 |
| RurouniJones | 5 | 15:16 |
| mgedmin | what duplicates? | 15:16 |
| mgedmin | what package names? | 15:16 |
| lbt | gitk is a local gui to view branches/versions - do try it : gitk --all | 15:16 |
| Jaffa | RurouniJones: Quality control is being done through Extras-testing and moving apps up to Extras. Package names will be shown unless the package uses XB-Maemo-Display-Name. Duplicates is concerning. | 15:16 |
| mgedmin | are you refering to the app manager's user interface, or the packages you see in it? | 15:16 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: Content, I think | 15:17 |
| RurouniJones | Bearing in mind this is from the SDK, not an actual phone. They use different sources? | 15:17 |
| Jaffa | RurouniJones: Might do. You might also have red pill mode enabled? | 15:17 |
| Jaffa | lbt: gitk's just *soooo* mid-90s with its Tk interface ;-) | 15:17 |
| RurouniJones | That I have no idea, I have done nothing outside of the standard scratchbox SDK install | 15:17 |
| lbt | it's written in tcl too | 15:17 |
| lbt | but it's great :) | 15:18 |
| Jaffa | lbt: yay! *cough* | 15:18 |
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| mgedmin | red pill still exists in maemo 5? | 15:18 |
| lbt | the functionality is superb | 15:18 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: Yup, but I *think* m-vo implemented the "don't keep on permanently" feature | 15:18 |
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| RST38h | TCL. Feh. | 15:19 |
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| vladovg | hi all | 15:20 |
| * mgedmin shares rst's opinion on tcl/tk | 15:20 | |
| vladovg | http://mobiletablets.blogspot.com/2009/10/maemo-summit-news-n8x0-omap2-graphics.html | 15:20 |
| vladovg | PowerVR | 15:20 |
| vladovg | its back in game | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, we were there | 15:21 |
| zerojay | lol | 15:21 |
| vladovg | and ai have a qeston | 15:21 |
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| zerojay | I hope people don't have too many high hopes pinned on the PowerVR driver doing... much. | 15:21 |
| vladovg | hal dis wil help in det kaind off period for maemo 4 | 15:21 |
| * zerojay adjusts his antenna | 15:22 | |
| zerojay | What? | 15:22 |
| lcuk | zerojay, me too, we coped perfectly well without 3d graphics in computing for practically 50years | 15:22 |
| vladovg | sorri for bad english | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | zerojay: according to sources it can drive full screen | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | and we don't need it to do much, really. | 15:22 |
| zerojay | I just mean in terms of performance. I'm sure there are a lot of people expecting shit like Q3 to run on their N800s so they have their hopes up real high. | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | i don't expect it to run 3d strippoker. | 15:23 |
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| crashanddie_ | vladovg, the comments on that blog are a bloody joke | 15:23 |
| crashanddie_ | vladovg, it's -users all over again | 15:23 |
| vladovg | but det maid all of media app fave to bi remaicked | 15:23 |
| crashanddie_ | lolwut? | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | no, the media applications doesn't have to be remade | 15:23 |
| vladovg | for exemple | 15:24 |
| vladovg | mplayer | 15:24 |
| crashanddie_ | vladovg, are you typing like that on purpose? | 15:24 |
| vladovg | to preform bether | 15:24 |
| vladovg | and use the PowerVR | 15:24 |
| vladovg | no | 15:24 |
| vladovg | sorri | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | vladovg: we are not sure we get access to IVA | 15:25 |
| crashanddie_ | vladovg, opengl doesn't help with 2d graphics tbh | 15:25 |
| vladovg | bad english | 15:25 |
| pupnik | i like that we have a community council of non-idiots | 15:25 |
| pupnik | np | 15:25 |
| derf | crashanddie_: Yes it does. | 15:25 |
| crashanddie_ | the only thing we could hope for is having hardware acceleration for the decoding, does PowerVR support that? | 15:25 |
| vladovg | so it wil no help for video preformance | 15:25 |
| crashanddie_ | derf, barely | 15:25 |
| zerojay | pupnik: Matter of opinion, I suppose. | 15:25 |
| derf | Depends on the chip of course... I have no real idea what PowerVR is capable of. | 15:26 |
| Jaffa | "I can haz N64 emulat0rz?" | 15:26 |
| pupnik | of course | 15:26 |
| crashanddie_ | derf, drawing a line is a line, whether you use opengl for it or some other lib, it only matters if you have to do it a lot | 15:26 |
| zerojay | pupnik: But I agree for the most part. | 15:26 |
| vladovg | for exemple | 15:26 |
| vladovg | nokia E90 | 15:26 |
| vladovg | same chipset | 15:26 |
| pupnik | btw someone just sent me a n64 emulator armel build | 15:26 |
| Jaffa | I like that we have a community council chair who isn't an idiot ;-) | 15:26 |
| lcuk | crashanddie_, deligating that line drawing to other hardware is where the power comes from | 15:26 |
| vladovg | and olmost exackt same sckrin res | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: ineed | 15:26 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: Who is the chair? | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | +d | 15:26 |
| lcuk | remember, the amiga had 7mhz, but managed its workload by collaboration | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | zerojay: VDVsx | 15:26 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: VDVsx | 15:26 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk, excepted that the n800 doesn't have problems displaying | 15:27 |
| * zerojay hits the Thanks button on that news. | 15:27 | |
| * Jaffa hopes gcobb's his trusted deputy | 15:27 | |
| lcuk | cours it does | 15:27 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk, it has problems generating/decoding the data quickly enough | 15:27 |
| pupnik | so in case someone really annoys you about n64, ask me for the deb ;) | 15:27 |
| lcuk | cpu spends more time doing fills and blits than anything | 15:27 |
| VDVsx | zerojay, summit news ;) | 15:27 |
| zerojay | Stskeeps: The man so nice they named him twice? :) | 15:27 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk, after that, you of all people have proven it's possible to have decent speed | 15:27 |
| zerojay | VDVsx: Yeah, missed that bit of it. | 15:27 |
| lcuk | only cos i optimized the shit out of it - i would love to handover fills and blits to some other hardware | 15:27 |
| lcuk | something just sitting idle that can take the load - hell yeah | 15:28 |
| lcuk | then the cpu can do real work | 15:28 |
| lcuk | like fluid dynamics of more particles | 15:28 |
| * Jaffa needs to find an algorithm (implementable in Python) to do homoglyphs in utf8, given VDVsx's problems with accents in Hermes | 15:28 | |
| lcuk | or AI for games | 15:28 |
| vladovg | yes | 15:29 |
| derf | What, Python isn't Turing-complete? | 15:29 |
| vladovg | but isent a too late fo thed driver | 15:29 |
| VDVsx | zerojay, I only forgive you because I'm using your nice wallpapers ;) | 15:29 |
| Jaffa | derf: :-p | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | vladovg: nop | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | vladovg: N800, N810 is cheap | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | and Mer development needs it | 15:29 |
| vladovg | hope sow | 15:29 |
| Jaffa | derf: Preferably implementable in Python before the heat-death of the universe and not involving rendering characters to a pixbuf and doing OCR ;-p | 15:29 |
| vladovg | yes | 15:29 |
| vladovg | ay now | 15:29 |
| lcuk | lol jaffa | 15:30 |
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| vladovg | wait and see | 15:30 |
| vladovg | wath wil hapend | 15:30 |
| zerojay | VDVsx: Oh yeah? Which ones do you like the best? Any more you'd like to see? | 15:30 |
| Jaffa | derf: I may have overestimated the complication: | 15:31 |
| Jaffa | http://snippets.dzone.com/posts/show/5499 | 15:31 |
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| VDVsx | zerojay, I'm using DKC atm, very greeny but I love the game ;) | 15:32 |
| zerojay | That one was a real bitch to make. | 15:33 |
| zerojay | Hard to make it loop properly. Had to redo a good portion of it. | 15:33 |
| * zerojay clicks the Promote Package button on AdBlock Plus. | 15:34 | |
| tbf | crap! libsoup on maemo5 is built without TLS support? crap. | 15:34 |
| vladovg | and another thing | 15:35 |
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| vladovg | did yu think with dis driver maemo5 have ani chance on N8XX | 15:35 |
| zerojay | VDVsx: Feel free to send me ideas for more. Most of them are really easy to make. I can bang them out in 10 minutes, pretty much. | 15:35 |
| vladovg | some lithe version | 15:35 |
| lbt | is it me or is forum nokia crap? | 15:35 |
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| zerojay | Not just you. | 15:36 |
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| lbt | can someone cut'n'paste it all to the wiki please | 15:36 |
| zerojay | I've been stuck using it for the last 4 years. | 15:36 |
| Stskeeps | vladovg: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-fremantle-desktop.png | 15:36 |
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| vladovg | mer | 15:37 |
| vladovg | ? | 15:37 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: very nice | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 15:37 |
| VDVsx | zerojay, actually, I'm curious about that, how do you make them ? i.e where do you grab the images :P | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: now in need of something else than SW rendering | 15:37 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: :) | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm. Easy way to make a clock. | 15:37 |
| vladovg | its dear some wiki | 15:37 |
| zerojay | VDVsx: There's a few sites that specialize in doing maps for classic games. I basically download the maps and edit those. | 15:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | 1440 frame animated GIF | 15:37 |
| zerojay | VDVsx: Search for vgmaps, I think... or "nes atlas", "snes atlas". | 15:38 |
| vladovg | to read all about mer | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | vladovg: wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 15:38 |
| mgedmin | Jaffa: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/trans ? | 15:38 |
| vladovg | thancs | 15:38 |
| vladovg | nice job | 15:38 |
| zerojay | VDVsx: What I do is I look at the map and try to find an area that looks like it'll be easily loopable. The ends on each side match, etc... | 15:38 |
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| mgedmin | Jaffa: or hack something up with the stdlib's unicodedata module | 15:39 |
| zerojay | VDVsx: I throw it into Gimp and pull out a 1600x240 size image (or close to it). I then go to work trying to make it loopable. Since everything is tiled, I impose a 16x16 grid on the image, careful it matches up with the tiles themselves and then copy and paste tiles around. | 15:39 |
| zerojay | VDVsx: Sometimes zoom up and do some fixing, especially in the case of that DKC one. | 15:40 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: It seems there's already a unicode module for python which'll make it a one liner. trans might be even better, tho' | 15:40 |
| zerojay | Then I double up to 3200x480 (so that the pixels are more visible) split into 4 800x480 images and test it out. | 15:40 |
| vladovg | ha | 15:40 |
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| zerojay | I didn't double up on the DKC one... and wow, it looks really good. | 15:40 |
| vladovg | ani Ubuntu app | 15:41 |
| vladovg | :) | 15:41 |
| mgedmin | that oneliner is cool! | 15:41 |
| VDVsx | zerojay, interesting, I thought you have all this games, lolol | 15:41 |
| VDVsx | lunch time, bbl | 15:41 |
| pupnik | did you guys notice very blurry tv out on video playback? | 15:41 |
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| zerojay | VDVsx: I do, but why do the work when someone else has already? ;) | 15:41 |
| pupnik | or am i just not remembering how bad PaL is.. | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: only while drunk | 15:41 |
| mgedmin | pupnik: I see very large pixels in my tv-out, and the colors are a bit weird | 15:41 |
| VDVsx | zerojay, true | 15:42 |
| pupnik | is tv out 320x240 or smth? | 15:42 |
| pupnik | looks like half-field progressive to me | 15:42 |
| lbt | just had a chat with SR on new OBS... 1:39pm SR : build bug fixed 1:41pm lbt : built+tested | 15:42 |
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| vladovg | Stskeeps | 15:43 |
| * lbt likes SSD based build systems.... | 15:43 | |
| vladovg | install it now | 15:43 |
| vladovg | :) | 15:43 |
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| vladovg | thancs | 15:43 |
| mgedmin | PAL is something like 720x480 interlaced, isn't it? | 15:43 |
| lbt | 720x576 | 15:44 |
| zerojay | 576 | 15:44 |
| zerojay | Also generally 50fps as well. | 15:44 |
| vladovg | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vector_Video_Standards2.svg | 15:44 |
| zerojay | Though there is PAL60. | 15:44 |
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| zerojay | lol | 15:48 |
| RST38h | vladovg: ! | 15:51 |
| vladovg | ? | 15:51 |
| RST38h | mmgedmin: Interlacing has nothing to do with actual video signal strandard | 15:51 |
| RST38h | vladovg: nice picture! | 15:51 |
| vladovg | ? | 15:52 |
| vladovg | wath picture | 15:52 |
| vladovg | :) | 15:52 |
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| zerojay | Whoa.. oh hey... maybe putting my foot up against my computer's CPU isn't a good idea. | 15:52 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: So, PAL is really 288 lines and NTSC is 24 | 15:52 |
| RST38h | 240 | 15:52 |
| mgedmin | depends | 15:53 |
| RST38h | Of which you physically see about 224 on NTSC and 240 on PAL I would say | 15:53 |
| mgedmin | 288 lines @ 50 hz or 576 lines @ 25 hz | 15:53 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Not really :) | 15:53 |
| vladovg | picture on wiki | 15:53 |
| vladovg | ? | 15:53 |
| RST38h | mgedminL You still see the same 288 lines they just flicker :) | 15:53 |
| RST38h | vladovg: yes | 15:53 |
| vladovg | haha | 15:53 |
| derf | RST38h: That's not true. | 15:54 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: And do keep in mind that you see fewer than 288 on most TVs | 15:54 |
| vladovg | thinc yu fain my web site | 15:54 |
| vladovg | :) | 15:54 |
| RST38h | ah, gimme a moment =) | 15:54 |
| RST38h | derf: It is really true. If you do not believe it, try running Amiga or MSX or some other old system in interlced mode | 15:55 |
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| RST38h | derf: You will quickly see that NTSC "480 lines" is a myth | 15:55 |
| RST38h | All in your eye, as long as adjacent lines are similar enough | 15:56 |
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| Jaffa | "all in your eye" is fine when we're talking about pictures, though ;-) | 15:57 |
| Jaffa | Particularly photographic/TV pictures | 15:57 |
| vladovg | any one intersting in fotografi | 15:58 |
| vladovg | from yu gais | 15:58 |
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| ifreq | anyone using dropbox? | 16:01 |
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| slonopotamus | no, why? | 16:01 |
| ifreq | well wrong chan for a starter | 16:01 |
| ifreq | :) | 16:02 |
| zerojay | lol | 16:02 |
| slonopotamus | ifreq, use git | 16:02 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: breaks down the moment ou switch to computer screens :) | 16:02 |
| ifreq | slonopotamus: git is avail for every major OS and easy to setup? | 16:03 |
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| cvandonderen | is USB networking in Windows already possible with the N900? | 16:09 |
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| Stskeeps | cvandonderen: yes, it is with n8x0 too | 16:13 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, it looks kinda complex to setup | 16:13 |
| cvandonderen | Stskeeps: in which mode do I have to connect the USB then? PC Suite mode? and still use that 770 network driver as on http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking? | 16:14 |
| * Corsac slaps Khertan around a bit with a large trout | 16:14 | |
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| cvandonderen | (I'm on Win7 x64) | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | cvandonderen: no idea on win7.. | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | but the RNDIS issue was fixed | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | but i think pc suite driver has usb networking in it | 16:15 |
| cvandonderen | so then I need to install the Nokia PC Suite? | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | possibly | 16:15 |
| cvandonderen | blegh | 16:16 |
| cvandonderen | hate that behemoth :-P | 16:16 |
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| cvandonderen | 310MB installation :'( | 16:18 |
| RST38h | screw it | 16:18 |
| RST38h | out of the whole pcsuite you only need a driver or two | 16:19 |
| cvandonderen | yeah, but you can't select anything | 16:19 |
| cvandonderen | it is all or nothing | 16:19 |
| cvandonderen | hope that uninstalling will keep the driver... | 16:19 |
| kontio | cvandonderen, here my script for usb-network: | 16:19 |
| kontio | #!/bin/sh | 16:19 |
| kontio | MYIP=192.168.10.15 | 16:19 |
| kontio | IS_USBNET=`/usr/bin/sudo /sbin/lsmod | grep g_nokia` | 16:19 |
| kontio | if [ IS_USBNET ]; then | 16:19 |
| kontio | /usr/bin/sudo /sbin/modprobe -r g_file_storage | 16:19 |
| kontio | /usr/bin/sudo /sbin/modprobe g_nokia | 16:19 |
| vladovg | íî | 16:19 |
| kontio | /usr/bin/sudo /sbin/ifconfig usb0 up $MYIP | 16:19 |
| kontio | else | 16:20 |
| kontio | /usr/bin/sudo /sbin/ifconfig usb0 up $MYIP | 16:20 |
| kontio | fi | 16:20 |
| cvandonderen | kontio: Windows ;-) | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | or just wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking .. | 16:20 |
| kontio | cvandonderen, on N900 side :-) | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | cvandonderen: that's for the N900 side | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | kontio: contribute it to wiki | 16:20 |
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| cvandonderen | but then Windows still doesn't have the USB network driver, does it? | 16:20 |
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| kontio | cvandonderen, sorry I just use linux :-) don't know what windows needs... | 16:21 |
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| cvandonderen | well, let me try if the driver now works :-) | 16:23 |
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| kontio | does somebody have a simple example for a fremantle desktop widget, which is transparent (semi-transparent)? I hacked something together, but the background is black and my nice wallpaper isn't visible :-) | 16:25 |
| kontio | do I need cairo or is this doable with GTK? | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | kontio: you make the window RGBA some claimed | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | and then it works | 16:26 |
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| smackpotat | . | 16:30 |
| cvandonderen | kontio: does that script work in Windows for you? | 16:31 |
| cvandonderen | it does not give any ouput on the N900 and Windows does not detect a new device... | 16:31 |
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| cvandonderen | and now in the root shell on the device it says: user is not in the sudoers file (I'm root) | 16:34 |
| * cvandonderen is by far not nerdy enough for this | 16:34 | |
| kontio | cvandonderen, ups sorry... I added the "user" into the sudoers file... remove all the /usr/bin/sudo and start the script as root... | 16:35 |
| cvandonderen | aaah | 16:35 |
| kontio | assuming you have rootsh installed... | 16:35 |
| cvandonderen | yup | 16:35 |
| cvandonderen | got that | 16:35 |
| kontio | and first I plug in the usb, then if it asks what I want, I don't choose anything, I click outside of the popup... then I run the script... | 16:36 |
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| cvandonderen | kontio: nothing happens on my Windows machine when I run the script... | 16:39 |
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| kontio | cvandonderen, sorry in that case I can't help you, I don't have any windows near to test with... | 16:41 |
| cvandonderen | okay | 16:41 |
| kontio | and my windows knowledge is really bad :-) | 16:41 |
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| kontio | back to my transparency problem... in the example 1.2 Source under: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Application_Development/Writing_Desktop_Widgets where and how would I set "RGBA to the window" as Stskeeps suggested before? and which is my window? | 16:43 |
| cvandonderen | let's hope Nokia comes with one soon then ;-) | 16:43 |
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| Stskeeps | kontio: zareem or something in here dealt with same issue | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | keep an eye out for him and he can probably answer | 16:45 |
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| kontio | Stskeeps, OK thx :-) | 16:45 |
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| lcuk | mgedmin, maybe the "this channel is logged" could say "this channel is logged and visible in google ;" | 16:45 |
| lcuk | ;) | 16:45 |
| mgedmin | isn't that an obvious corollary? | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I prefer 'This channel is logged. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law'. | 16:46 |
| RST38h | lcuk: By the way, was that cat willing to do the stuff you made pictures of? =0 | 16:46 |
| Lynoure | "court of lol" | 16:47 |
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| mgedmin | kontio: http://zaheer.merali.org/articles/2009/10/12/maemo-widget-experience-circular-clock-with-transparent-background/ maybe | 16:49 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: what language is he using? | 16:51 |
| kontio | mgedmin, thx I'll check that out :-) | 16:51 |
| archebyte | hey all.. | 16:53 |
| archebyte | I am trying to ssh into my N900 but can't seem to get in from my laptop (ubuntu).. the connection simply hangs after entering the root password.... | 16:55 |
| archebyte | what am I missing? | 16:55 |
| archebyte | ssh out of the N900 into my laptop is working fine.. | 16:56 |
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| Stskeeps | archebyte: disable power saving | 16:56 |
| archebyte | hmm.. let me give that a shot.. tks.. | 16:57 |
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| Firebird | Er, why does the maemo.org homepage show Downloads for OS2006... | 17:00 |
| Corsac | because you're back to 2006 | 17:01 |
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| Firebird | must of time travelled over night | 17:02 |
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| archebyte | @Stskeeps that did it thanks! | 17:03 |
| archebyte | now on to USB networking.. | 17:04 |
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| vladovg | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6aVu_mnz34 | 17:07 |
| vladovg | nice | 17:07 |
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| lardman | anyone know how to access the light sensor? | 17:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | axe. | 17:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | Is there source for the q3 package - IIRC that used it | 17:13 |
| lardman | really? how? | 17:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | I dunno. | 17:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | I heard comments earlier it was used for the fire button | 17:15 |
| lardman | oh right, cool, thanks | 17:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | (10:32:29 PM) RST38h: javis: The quake3 Nokia guys made for n900 uses proximity sensor as the fire button. You close it with your finger and fire away | 17:16 |
| SpeedEvil | lastnight | 17:16 |
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| lardman | ah proximity | 17:17 |
| RST38h | I think there is a n easier way to find the code sample for proximity sensor | 17:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Or strace something that uses it | 17:18 |
| lardman | well the kernel diff will also say how | 17:19 |
| Shapeshifter | does fennec on the n900 use the fraud/phishing detection service? | 17:20 |
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| archebyte | I can't seem to make a file executable on the N900. I copied the file (usbnet) onto the N900.. it copied with user:root owner and 755 permission.. using 'chmod a+x usbnet' does not change the permission. whats going on here? | 17:23 |
| lardman | archebyte: might be on the vfat partition? | 17:23 |
| lardman | archebyte: how did you setup usbnet out of interest? | 17:23 |
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| archebyte | @lardman I am just trying it out.. using the /etc/init.d/usbnet from my N800 | 17:25 |
| lardman | ah ok | 17:25 |
| crashanddie_ | archebyte, you probably have the file in the wrong location | 17:26 |
| lardman | part of ~ is vfat | 17:26 |
| lardman | iirc | 17:26 |
| crashanddie_ | and if it is mounted with noexec... | 17:26 |
| archebyte | @lardman.. yup.. I copied it onto the /home/user/tmp.. | 17:27 |
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| archebyte | I will move it to the system dir and try again. Thanks! | 17:27 |
| crashanddie_ | /home is ext3 | 17:27 |
| crashanddie_ | /home/user/MyDocs is vfat | 17:28 |
| lardman | crashanddie_: it's not noexec'd afaicr | 17:28 |
| lardman | at least I'm sure I was executing code from /home/user/MyDocs | 17:29 |
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| lardman | may have changed now though I guess | 17:29 |
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| crashanddie_ | it ain't | 17:31 |
| archebyte | @crashanddie_: tks | 17:31 |
| crashanddie_ | well, /home/user/MyDocs is noexec | 17:32 |
| crashanddie_ | /home should be fine | 17:32 |
| archebyte | @lardman: /etc/fstab shows MyDocs with vfat noauto, nodev,noexec | 17:32 |
| lardman | ah ok, might be my memory or something then ;) | 17:33 |
| lbt | Jaffa: you care about sync (contacts etc) | 17:33 |
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| VDVsx | Jaffa, ping | 17:38 |
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| VDVsx | ah nevermind :) | 17:39 |
| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/Sync | 17:40 |
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| lardman | argh, that bloody "Unable to connect to one or more accounts" is driving me mad! | 17:43 |
| VDVsx | X-Fade, ping | 17:43 |
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| kirma | does N900 standard browser have facilities to access location data? (somehow I feel pessimistic...) | 17:43 |
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| sevard | I have an 810 and I've been trying to figure out rearranging the applications menu for quite sometime. Does anyone have any insight on this that my exhaustive googling hasn't brought up? It is seemingly impossible to take something from the Extras menu and put it in the Utilities menu after the application has been installed once. | 17:44 |
| lardman | kirma: how do you mean? To use for e.g. Google lookups? | 17:45 |
| Vladoo | control panel | 17:45 |
| Vladoo | panels | 17:45 |
| Vladoo | aplications | 17:46 |
| kirma | lardman: primarily to get GPS coordinates, but potentially also to access landmark database | 17:46 |
| Vladoo | organise | 17:46 |
| lardman | kirma: I guess a plugin could do the job | 17:46 |
| Vladoo | an manig wath ever yu want | 17:46 |
| kirma | and controlling if the lat/lon coordinates are formed from cellids or agps or whatever | 17:46 |
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| lardman | kirma: why would you want to do that in the browser though? | 17:47 |
| kirma | access location information, you mean? | 17:47 |
| kirma | or landmarks specifically? | 17:47 |
| Shapeshifter | Is it possible to install fennec in the sdk? | 17:47 |
| sijk | http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/geolocation/ something like that probably | 17:48 |
| sp3000 | heh | 17:48 |
| * sp3000 has 199 karma | 17:48 | |
| RST38h | ahhahaha | 17:48 |
| sp3000 | under other circumstances, that could have been annoying ;) | 17:48 |
| RST38h | One more bug report...a few more comments... | 17:48 |
| kirma | sijk: indeed. | 17:49 |
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| kirma | I'm wondering if maemo 5 has landmark database like S60 at all | 17:50 |
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| kirma | if both coordinates and landmark database could be accessed from web sites/wrt after user approval, one could write many applications like "next bus home/whatever" as web 2.0 style stuff and in addition avoid using too much battery or creating redundant landmark databases for user to maintain... | 17:51 |
| sevard | Vladoo: holy, hell. How did I miss that? thank you so much :| | 17:52 |
| Vladoo | :) | 17:52 |
| Vladoo | glad to help | 17:52 |
| sevard | I feel so idiotic. It's been like two months. Heh. | 17:53 |
| lardman | kirma: sounds interesting | 17:53 |
| Vladoo | just ask some one | 17:53 |
| Vladoo | 1 minute | 17:53 |
| kirma | I'm still waiting location awareness to catch on in truly interesting ways. for instance, I hacked a local web server providing location data for ajax apps on S60/Python and it was nice... and could theoretically do what I want in this case, but it'd be a bit fragile implementation | 17:54 |
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| sevard | I wonder if the n900 will support USB host mode. I just got a battery powered usb hub that works well with my n810 for hooking up my CF card reader. | 17:55 |
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| Stskeeps | sevard: sources say no | 17:55 |
| javispedro | moo | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | there was a USB certification issue | 17:55 |
| sevard | even without the software hack available for the n810? | 17:55 |
| kirma | but once one gets reasonably accurate data from cellids and sees the landmark database, "intelligent guesses" by the application become much easier and less power hungry -> real potential for widget that would show *always* how to get home fastest using local buses, for instance. | 17:55 |
| sevard | because wasn't there the same issue with the n810? | 17:56 |
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| javispedro | no, the n810 supported usb otg. | 17:56 |
| Vladoo | sevard | 17:56 |
| Vladoo | CF | 17:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Sources are - as far as I read them - ambiguous. | 17:56 |
| sevard | yeah, but if it's in OTG mode it doesn't "host" | 17:56 |
| Jaffa | lbt: VDVsx: pong | 17:56 |
| Vladoo | did yu du some fotografick worck | 17:56 |
| sevard | Vladoo: what? | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I haven't seen one statement - looked at the relevant maemo threads - that seems to be from someone with a clue. | 17:57 |
| javispedro | I'd say Vlad has a clue... | 17:57 |
| Vladoo | ay too nead a CF soliushon | 17:57 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, nevermind, I had a question about ovi maps :) | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: I don't recall any vlad - can you link? | 17:58 |
| Vladoo | to read 30D images | 17:58 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: er.. sorry, Igor. | 17:58 |
| sevard | Well, with my n810 I use the nokia pproprietary cable and a usb female to female jack to hook up to a CyberPower battery powered (rechargeable) usb hub. That hub is in turned plugged into my targus 32 in one card reader which my cf card is plugged into. | 17:58 |
| sevard | Mameo complains about the devices not being supported, but then a second later the CF filesystem is populated. | 17:59 |
| javispedro | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020830.html (the original post) | 17:59 |
| lbt | Jaffa: syncML... | 17:59 |
| cvandonderen | in the Qt from the repo's I cannot yet use Q_WS_HILDON? | 17:59 |
| sevard | The only problem I have is reading huge JPEGs off the card from my camera with the default image viewing application. That's solved with using "Quiver" | 17:59 |
| Vladoo | hm | 17:59 |
| sevard | The Cyberpower hub is really awesome | 17:59 |
| sevard | I got it from ebay for 8bucks | 17:59 |
| Vladoo | made my self usb host cable | 17:59 |
| lbt | Jaffa: something you care about? | 17:59 |
| Vladoo | but widowt the ehternal power | 18:00 |
| sevard | You can make a host cable, but you need power. The n810's usb port doesn't supply power. | 18:00 |
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| Vladoo | and it dosen want to start my reader | 18:00 |
| Vladoo | ay now | 18:00 |
| Vladoo | wit wat yu tacke images | 18:00 |
| Vladoo | canon nikon | 18:01 |
| sevard | Right. you need a powered hub... if you're into a hackerish solution I'm sure you could hack in like 500mA/2.6 watts into the line | 18:01 |
| sevard | I take pictures with a canon rebel xt dslr. Are you dutch? | 18:02 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: 'comes without usb host mode' is rather ambiguous. It can mean several things. We don't provide the driver. There is no 5V power supply. The pull up/down resistors are missing. There is a SoC bug or other issue meaning you can't set the D+/D- pins to host mode. | 18:02 |
| Vladoo | no | 18:02 |
| Vladoo | Bulgarian | 18:02 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Some of these may be fixable externally. | 18:02 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: read hw bugs part? | 18:02 |
| Vladoo | ay using canon too | 18:02 |
| Vladoo | and s10sh | 18:02 |
| Vladoo | in host mode | 18:02 |
| Vladoo | did yu traiet dis | 18:03 |
| sevard | SpeedEvil: it's true. All this speculative fanboying is going to have to wait for the actual release. | 18:03 |
| Vladoo | its great | 18:03 |
| sevard | I've understood most of what you said, but I'm failing to prase traiet. | 18:03 |
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| Vladoo | mainli as a remote control for the camera | 18:03 |
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| sevard | parse* | 18:03 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: yes - this may mean bugs affecting the power supply, or pull up/down resistors, or ... In some cases this can be fixed with external hardware. Without detailed specs, further clarification, I don't think it's possible to say one way or the other. | 18:03 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: for a start, what if it's connected to the omap udc that does not support host. | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: yes - that's of course an option. | 18:04 |
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| javispedro | (i really dunno if the omap udc has one such port; the pxa -- the only I've worked with -- had only one of three ports host capable) | 18:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: I'm not saying it can or it can't. I'm saying I can read the posts I've seen as a software guy talking to a hardware guy, and getting answers that are slightly talking past each other. | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | (igor talking to his internal source) | 18:06 |
| javispedro | what I don't understand why there's so many people interested in usb host but no one of the "300" has begun any kind of extensive analysis of the situation. | 18:07 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 18:07 |
| javispedro | i'm sure the "is it connected to the udc port with host support" could be easily solved. | 18:07 |
| javispedro | without even opening the device. | 18:07 |
| SpeedEvil | There are - to assume it's similar to openmoko - _very_ few people competant to do kernel hacking and run a voltmeter. | 18:07 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Because 290 of those 300 are bloggers! =) | 18:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Or even read datasheets and read kernel code. | 18:08 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: or not interested at all in host support now (my case...) | 18:08 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think the omap is NDA'd datasheet - but that sort of thing is even worse. | 18:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | I want to be able to plug in my hard drive, or an external keyb forex. | 18:09 |
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| lbt | is there an #ifdef FREMANTLE / DIABLO thing? | 18:10 |
| javispedro | the pxa was much much more opened, and few people tryiend enabling host support there. | 18:10 |
| javispedro | (palm t|x) | 18:10 |
| javispedro | lbt: if including hildon, hildon has some version macros... | 18:10 |
| javispedro | http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/hildon/hildon-Versioning-Macros.html | 18:10 |
| lbt | *nod* ... | 18:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | I should probably try to download the datasheet, but am currently depressed about yet another unaffordable device. | 18:10 |
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| lbt | javispedro: I'll see what they do :) | 18:11 |
| javispedro | lbt: if not hildon, then I just read /etc/maemo_release in the Makefile and act (but that breaks Mer builds :( ) | 18:11 |
| lbt | javispedro: I've been thinking about how Mer should behave | 18:12 |
| lbt | I think it may pretend to be fremantle | 18:12 |
| Firebird | anyone have any idea what package provides the gles and egl files under x86 sdk? | 18:12 |
| javispedro | Firebird: libgles2-dev | 18:12 |
| javispedro | extras-devel. | 18:12 |
| lbt | insofar as it attempts to suport the fremantle api | 18:12 |
| javispedro | lbt: true | 18:12 |
| * RST38h conducts anthropologic research via t.m.o: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32914&page=5 | 18:12 | |
| javispedro | (err... nice idea I mean) | 18:12 |
| Firebird | javispedro, that's armel only... according to apt-get and maemo.org/packages | 18:13 |
| javispedro | Firebird: either they removed it or I've been dreaming. | 18:13 |
| javispedro | btw, no gles1 in x86. | 18:13 |
| Firebird | ah, I see | 18:13 |
| lbt | well : /usr/include/qt4/Qt/qconfig.h:# define Q_OS_FREMANTLE | 18:14 |
| javispedro | ah, already using QT :) | 18:14 |
| javispedro | Firebird: [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > fakeroot apt-get install libgles2-dev works | 18:14 |
| Firebird | javispedro, it was libgles2 that is armel only | 18:14 |
| javispedro | ah. | 18:14 |
| javispedro | there's no libgles2 package in x86 indeed. -dev one contains libraries. | 18:15 |
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| Firebird | there's no x86 version of the -sgx-img one either | 18:16 |
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| javispedro | yeah, libgles2-dev contains all you need for gles2 | 18:16 |
| javispedro | if you need gles1... use imagination sdk. | 18:16 |
| VDVsx | humm, seems that I can't transfer photos to my laptop through BT, anyone with an n900 to confirm/deny ? :P | 18:17 |
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| Firebird | anyways, armel version is queued for adding to extras-devel | 18:17 |
| javispedro | sdl-1.3? cool. | 18:17 |
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| Stskeeps | VDVsx: there's a bug on file transfer | 18:17 |
| * Stskeeps thinks there should be send file through skype/msn/etc too | 18:17 | |
| Firebird | yea | 18:17 |
| javispedro | Firebird: if you're in mood, open garage project. 3 karma points plus I get to have a look at the patches you've done :) | 18:18 |
| Firebird | libsdl-13-9999 | 18:18 |
| javispedro | uh? | 18:18 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, my laptop doesn't show up on the list, it only shows phones o_0 | 18:18 |
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| RST38h | that 9999 is wrong | 18:18 |
| pupnik | aight i am done with operating systems on hard drives , i think | 18:19 |
| Firebird | javispedro, haven't really patched much, only fixed the EGL attributes so far | 18:19 |
| Firebird | there was already a gles x11 driver, so I used that | 18:19 |
| RST38h | pupnik: read to migrate into the cloud? =) | 18:19 |
| javispedro | pupnik: lol, moved your OS to the cloud then? :) | 18:19 |
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| javispedro | heh. | 18:19 |
| RST38h | Oh...great minds think alike | 18:19 |
| pupnik | not sure bout that yet | 18:19 |
| pupnik | but i like usb + cdrom | 18:20 |
| Firebird | oh wow, lag :o | 18:20 |
| javispedro | Firebird: I'd say you name the package libsdl1.3 and libsdl1.3-dev | 18:20 |
| Firebird | RST38h, its an upstream git version | 18:20 |
| javispedro | version 0.0~git | 18:20 |
| pupnik | a trusted cd or dvd, plus a semi-trusted usb filesystem on micro-usb card (check out the steel "super talent" micro usb cards) | 18:20 |
| Firebird | but that would overwrite the stable sdl wouldn't it? | 18:21 |
| javispedro | Firebird: the stable sdl was appropiately named libsdl1.2 | 18:21 |
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| javispedro | I mean, the package name is "libsdl1.2", version is "1.2.13-2" | 18:23 |
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| javispedro | "1.2.8-23" actually. | 18:23 |
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| VDVsx | Stskeeps, humm, I don't find any bug related to that issue | 18:23 |
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| Firebird | javispedro, alright, renamed | 18:24 |
| * Firebird spies openarena-data in the fremantle build queue | 18:24 | |
| pupnik | wotness | 18:26 |
| pupnik | how is stering | 18:26 |
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| pupnik | sthis damn bwireless kbd is defective | 18:26 |
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| pupnik | curse you chinese anonymity | 18:26 |
| * javispedro glances at the libsdl1.2 maemo package description | 18:26 | |
| Firebird | heh | 18:27 |
| pupnik | have zou tested this javispedro | 18:27 |
| javispedro | Description: Simple "Direct"Media Layer | 18:27 |
| javispedro | Altrough it claims to be "direct", it is not that | 18:27 |
| javispedro | direct as you can see after using it for a while... | 18:27 |
| javispedro | :) | 18:27 |
| penguinbait | God I miss ITT | 18:27 |
| javispedro | pupnik: tested what? | 18:27 |
| RST38h | Which ITT? | 18:28 |
| Firebird | yea, I saw that and decided to not include the last 2 lines | 18:28 |
| penguinbait | the non-corporate ITT | 18:28 |
| RST38h | javis: direct as compared to gstreamer maybe? | 18:28 |
| penguinbait | it just doesnt seem as friendly anymore | 18:29 |
| RST38h | the current one is not very corporate either | 18:29 |
| pupnik | this new sdl build with gles | 18:29 |
| RST38h | ah come on, what does corporation have to do with this? | 18:29 |
| penguinbait | I much prefer when it was just Reggie | 18:29 |
| javispedro | pupnik: nope, not yet. In fact I don't know remember any app using sdl-1.3 right now... | 18:29 |
| pupnik | want to test the tolerance of it, go crazy in offtopiic | 18:29 |
| javispedro | oh, I like qgil's contributions. | 18:30 |
| pupnik | javispedro, secret maryo world would be perfect on gles. | 18:30 |
| javispedro | well, the ones were he doesn't sound like a marketdroid ;) | 18:30 |
| Firebird | alright, its in the queue: libsdl1.3_0.0~git2009-10-17T15:34:29Z | 18:30 |
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| pupnik | defintely good to talk to nokia ppl directly | 18:30 |
| pupnik | good deal Firebird | 18:30 |
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| javispedro | this way you can decide a better versioning scheme when it's released. | 18:31 |
| penguinbait | I personally like it better when qgil would show up once a month, and was pretty quiet | 18:31 |
| johnx | mornin' | 18:31 |
| javispedro | (e.g. 1.3.0-0maemo1) | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | morning johnx | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i have a new-UI image if you want to test out new HIM | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | (its dead slow but it works over usb net) | 18:32 |
| RST38h | penguin: What is wrong with qgil? | 18:32 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, sounds good | 18:32 |
| Firebird | :o "openarena 0.8.1-maemo1 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository" | 18:32 |
| Firebird | who's doing that one? | 18:32 |
| RST38h | moo johnx | 18:32 |
| johnx | m00f RST38h :D | 18:32 |
| javispedro | lol :) | 18:33 |
| * Stskeeps actually likes the maemo.org feel. feels more of an integrated community now. | 18:33 | |
| RST38h | johnx: any idea where I can find a proximity sensor usage sample? | 18:33 |
| johnx | RST38h, there's a proximity sensor? | 18:33 |
| * lbt doesn't like the tmo colours | 18:33 | |
| * RST38h does not think of qgil as the top forum annoyance, not even in the first two dozen or so | 18:33 | |
| johnx | I was wondering how that worked... | 18:33 |
| penguinbait | Nothing is wrong, just liked him better, when he was quieter | 18:34 |
| RST38h | A few excessively whining bloggers, on the other hand... =) | 18:34 |
| javispedro | Right now I'd prefer tmo's "balance" to go a bit back to developers "side". not much though. | 18:34 |
| Firebird | javispedro, can't put libgles2-dev in the dependencies or it will fail for armel since armel uses libgles2-sgx-image-dev | 18:34 |
| RST38h | johnx: Of course there is | 18:34 |
| lbt | penguinbait: I know that feeling... though not about qgil :) | 18:34 |
| johnx | penguinbait, yeah, it'd be a shame if Nokia got involved in the community... | 18:34 |
| javispedro | Firebird: libgles2-dev | libgles2-sgx-image-dev | 18:34 |
| Firebird | ah | 18:34 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: You ain't seen nuffink yet! | 18:34 |
| RST38h | johnx: the little double-window at the left sife | 18:34 |
| RST38h | side | 18:34 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Wait till you get the 'why won't it download apps from itunes' posts | 18:35 |
| johnx | aaah, I figured that was the camera and light sensor | 18:35 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: i'm already traning reading some "external" maemo fansite sites .... | 18:35 |
| javispedro | s/traning/training | 18:35 |
| RST38h | well proximity is apparently done by lighting an IR LED and sensing the reflected light | 18:35 |
| * javispedro wonders when the rush of people noticing it's not a symbian phone and thus they can't plan Pang XXX will appear. | 18:35 | |
| RST38h | Well, people are already asking where the apps are all over the forums | 18:36 |
| * SpeedEvil hopes no confused users were really looking for a symbian device. | 18:36 | |
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| javispedro | because, answering yesterday's RST38h question: yes they have money and yes they have been preordering the device even when they have no idea what the device is. | 18:36 |
| johnx | RST38h, think the RGB indicator light might be IR as well? | 18:36 |
| johnx | or is it somewhere else? | 18:36 |
| johnx | guess I could find out with a camera | 18:36 |
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| pupnik | Stskeeps: do you have howto for usb-net on n900_ | 18:37 |
| pupnik | whoah | 18:37 |
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| Stskeeps | pupnik: scroll up | 18:37 |
| penguinbait | so is dual booting on the n900 working? | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | penguinbait: of course it is | 18:37 |
| pupnik | < Stskeeps> johnx: i have a new-UI image if you want to test out new HIM | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | we have to wait for final sw release before putting a patch in the bootmenu installer thoug | 18:38 |
| absolute | johnx: i doubt they would put IR on an indicator light... the IR stuff is supposed to be on the top side where the other buttons are | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | h | 18:38 |
| pupnik | ah ok | 18:38 |
| pupnik | cool stuff ty wtg >) | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | penguinbait: but it works and i've tested it | 18:38 |
| johnx | absolute, but how would the proximity detector use that light? | 18:38 |
| absolute | ? | 18:39 |
| penguinbait | So this is why Quim thinks Fanoush does not deserve a pre-release device? Is this working for everything or just MER? | 18:39 |
| absolute | i'm not sure what type of component was used for the proximity sensor | 18:39 |
| javispedro | Fanoush does not deserve a device? O.o | 18:40 |
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| absolute | i don't have one in hand yet | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | penguinbait: uhm, council got a choice of giving out 25 with the intent of getting apps in extras | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | and then there was 300 on maemo summit | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | and then there was karma > 200 | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | giving out as in loan | 18:40 |
| pupnik | i would donate a bit to fanoush fund | 18:40 |
| penguinbait | fanoush was droped by nokia | 18:40 |
| penguinbait | council picked him | 18:40 |
| pupnik | community can donante to peopl it likes w/o nokia | 18:41 |
| ShadowJK | yawn, so now this device programmer crud spills over from tmo | 18:41 |
| pupnik | if it does not donate it does not care | 18:41 |
| penguinbait | I merely asked Quim to use of of the devices collected back to send to Fanoush | 18:41 |
| pupnik | askinng for other peoples money is seasy | 18:41 |
| penguinbait | he stated bootmenu was already working | 18:41 |
| penguinbait | as he said he would on ITT, but fanoush somehow does not qualify | 18:41 |
| zerojay | It doesn't make sense to give a device to someone for hacking bootmenu when 99% of the average user for the N900 will never use it. The whole point of handing out the tablets in the first place is to solidify software that's going to be in Extras for sales release. | 18:42 |
| zerojay | So it's not that Fanoush doesn't deserve it. | 18:42 |
| * Stskeeps is with zerojay on that one | 18:42 | |
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| zerojay | It's just that it doesn't make sense, that's all. Not at that point. | 18:42 |
| pupnik | dude can i please have sopme kind of fused rotfs | 18:42 |
| penguinbait | WOW | 18:42 |
| zerojay | Not when you have a limited amount of devices to hand out. | 18:42 |
| penguinbait | what world do I live in? | 18:43 |
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| pupnik | can i loan my device to fanoush_? | 18:43 |
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| johnx | RST38h, not so sure about it using IR for this. Think it might be clever usage of the accelerometer? | 18:43 |
| VDVsx | sorry but I also agree with zerojay | 18:43 |
| johnx | pupnik, yes. I give you permission | 18:43 |
| VDVsx | and fanoush got a discount | 18:43 |
| pupnik | oh if he haas dicount then all is wel | 18:43 |
| penguinbait | 99% of the people didnt use bootmenu? | 18:44 |
| zerojay | That's right. | 18:44 |
| RST38h | < | 18:44 |
| penguinbait | Are you serious? | 18:44 |
| ShadowJK | indeed | 18:44 |
| RST38h | johnx: No. | 18:44 |
| RST38h | johnx: That thing is a proximity sensor. Consider it an axiom :) | 18:44 |
| pupnik | expandable rootfs for the glorius people of kazachstan! | 18:44 |
| lbt | Is anyone aware of any dropbear ssh issues on maemo? | 18:44 |
| zerojay | If you think most of the people that bought tablets came to ITT, you're way wrong. But I'm not talking about the older tablets. I'm talking about the N900's users. | 18:44 |
| johnx | RST38h, well I tried watching it with a digicam while the "phone" app was running... | 18:44 |
| zerojay | It's made much more for mainstream users than the older tablets. That means even LESS people are going to be running bootmenu on a percentage basis. | 18:45 |
| javispedro | ah, he got discount. cool enough. | 18:45 |
| * Stskeeps didnt contribute bootmenu cos of a prerelease loan but because of summit loan. | 18:45 | |
| penguinbait | I am talking about 810 user, the ones that find it was useable after finding bootmenu | 18:45 |
| suihkulokki | hmm.. ir transmitter, bt, accelerometer | 18:45 |
| penguinbait | how quickly we forget? | 18:45 |
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| suihkulokki | n900 could be hacked to a expensive wiimote =) | 18:45 |
| zerojay | You are. We're talking about handing out N900s. | 18:45 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not using bootmenu :-) | 18:45 |
| zerojay | And Nokia's reasonings for handing them out. | 18:45 |
| ShadowJK | (on N800, N810) | 18:45 |
| johnx | suihkulokki, it could be the wii and the wiimote :) | 18:46 |
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| Firebird | javispedro, the | didn't work, should it be || ? | 18:46 |
| * javispedro checks debian depends signal | 18:46 | |
| absolute | there are videos of people using a wiimote with drnoksnes | 18:46 |
| lbt | crashanddie_: you may know... any issues with dropbear? | 18:46 |
| javispedro | Firebird: Depends: libc6 (>= 2.2.1), exim | mail-transport-agent | 18:46 |
| javispedro | it's | | 18:46 |
| VDVsx | suihkulokki, I made a attempt on that at the summit :P | 18:46 |
| Firebird | javispedro, its still trying to pull libgles2-dev | 18:47 |
| johnx | VDVsx, did you have a wii at the summit? | 18:47 |
| javispedro | if you have the alternative installed it shouldn't try to pull the first one. | 18:47 |
| crashanddie_ | lbt, I don't use dropbear | 18:47 |
| Firebird | crap, typo >_> | 18:47 |
| crashanddie_ | lbt, I use openssh | 18:47 |
| VDVsx | johnx, nop, I use the n900 to control tuxracing in my laptop | 18:47 |
| lbt | crashanddie_: fair enough - are you aware of any issues though? | 18:48 |
| lbt | it's a fair bit smaller | 18:48 |
| lbt | and /opt ... | 18:48 |
| lbt | and Qt | 18:48 |
| RST38h | johnx: No luck? | 18:48 |
| Firebird | my brother's going to kill me for sucking up all this bandwidth to upload sdl | 18:48 |
| RST38h | johnx: Then it should use some other method | 18:48 |
| crashanddie_ | lbt, can't say I'm aware of anything | 18:48 |
| pupnik | is it safe to move all /usr/share to MyDocs partituion or /home/user? | 18:48 |
| johnx | RST38h, well, I don't see an IR LED lit up when it's in phone mode | 18:48 |
| ShadowJK | pupnik, no | 18:49 |
| ShadowJK | wait | 18:49 |
| javispedro | pupnik: and the end result will be slower. | 18:49 |
| ShadowJK | what was MyDocs again | 18:49 |
| pupnik | with symlilnk | 18:49 |
| javispedro | MyDocs is FAT32, thus "No". | 18:49 |
| pupnik | how about symlinking individual big blobby libs | 18:49 |
| johnx | but maybe there's too much light in the room to see it. (ie, It might be blending in with the reflections off the device) | 18:49 |
| pupnik | or rather share thinngs | 18:49 |
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| pupnik | is the stuff in /home mounted on bootup | 18:49 |
| javispedro | dunno. | 18:50 |
| * VDVsx just realized that his advisor company is working directly with Apple, that explains somethings o_0 | 18:50 | |
| javispedro | I'd wait for lazy packagers like me to optify their packages. | 18:50 |
| javispedro | drnoksnes is now optified at least though. | 18:50 |
| pupnik | filesystem ful now, so i guess iwill experiment | 18:50 |
| ShadowJK | what do you install to fill it up... | 18:51 |
| pupnik | just a few thigns | 18:51 |
| ShadowJK | must be porn, last time I checked nobody answered that question :P | 18:51 |
| pupnik | python was nicie and fat | 18:51 |
| javispedro | python... | 18:51 |
| pupnik | i can give list if i dont have to reflash | 18:51 |
| javispedro | is your tablet still bricked? | 18:51 |
| pupnik | yes | 18:51 |
| javispedro | :( | 18:51 |
| pupnik | wanted to give you oprofile data actually | 18:52 |
| pupnik | but i think is not ready yet | 18:52 |
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| zerojay | AdBlock Plus is in extras-testing. Please try it out and vote on it, guys n' dolls. | 18:52 |
| javispedro | ah, vote. | 18:52 |
| javispedro | did the QA queue speed increase? :) | 18:53 |
| zerojay | Not that I've seen. lol | 18:53 |
| javispedro | ah well. | 18:53 |
| javispedro | If I get my dev at least I will vote RST38's apps :) | 18:53 |
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| pupnik | when u get dev | 18:55 |
| javispedro | dunno. still don't know what the final price is. | 18:55 |
| pupnik | you have discount though, yes? | 18:55 |
| javispedro | yep : ) | 18:56 |
| pupnik | is it not 300 | 18:56 |
| javispedro | he says it "varies from country to country" | 18:56 |
| ifreq | like always | 18:56 |
| pupnik | k | 18:56 |
| * Firebird will be awaiting a subsidized version | 18:57 | |
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| pupnik | can someone @ nokia link me to a fresh image to flash or maybe trick to get into console? | 19:00 |
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| javispedro | pupnik: i'd go ask that to -developers | 19:01 |
| pupnik | i have plenty of things to work on if not possible :) | 19:01 |
| pupnik | nah noto important | 19:01 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Nokia guys say it is a proximity sensor and they use it for fire button in q3 | 19:01 |
| pupnik | until i am a developer i stay off developers | 19:01 |
| RST38h | johnx: tested it, it works in q3 | 19:02 |
| pupnik | wow | 19:02 |
| RST38h | a bit erratically though | 19:02 |
| javispedro | well, losing a week of your loaned device would be important :) | 19:02 |
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| pupnik | yeah but also not releasingn image to wild or to risk it mightt be mnuch more impoartant | 19:03 |
| lbt | anyone use ssh on the device from linux and NOT know how to do passwd-less login? | 19:03 |
| pupnik | i forgot - hosts.allow_? | 19:04 |
| lbt | I wrote it up ... if you want to test+comment : http://wiki.maemo.org/SSH | 19:04 |
| * RST38h would avoid doing that | 19:04 | |
| lbt | RST38h why? | 19:04 |
| RST38h | Too easy to compromise the device | 19:05 |
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| lbt | significantly *more* secure than a password actually | 19:05 |
| lbt | most secure implementations insist on it | 19:05 |
| Jaffa | lbt: a little (care about syncml) | 19:06 |
| pupnik | freenx uses such iirc | 19:06 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 19:07 |
| lbt | Jaffa: I'm just interested ... I care because of egroupware and sync to local systems (not cloud) | 19:07 |
| * javispedro uses openssh from inetd :) | 19:07 | |
| RST38h | i.e. you limit login sources to your local machines? | 19:07 |
| lbt | RST38h: no, you use a public/private key pair | 19:07 |
| RST38h | ah | 19:07 |
| RST38h | yea, this will be way better than the password | 19:07 |
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| lbt | Jaffa: and of course hermes may be relevant.... | 19:08 |
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| johnx | of course password+pub. key is even more secure :) | 19:08 |
| RST38h | On the other hand, you essentially store your password in the ~ of machine from which you log in | 19:09 |
| lbt | Jaffa: I'd rather you'd said "yes, I need to support SyncML servers in hermes" | 19:09 |
| lbt | RST38h: correct | 19:09 |
| RST38h | So whoever gets that key, can access the machine | 19:09 |
| lbt | correct | 19:09 |
| johnx | lbt, so it can setup a chain of compromises | 19:09 |
| RST38h | I would stick with the password. | 19:09 |
| johnx | but on the other hand, most people use the same password for lots of machines... | 19:09 |
| RST38h | it is in my brain. | 19:09 |
| Jaffa | lbt: I don't need to support SyncML AFAIK | 19:09 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Maybe they can do pics. Maybe that *would* be interesting | 19:09 |
| lbt | Jaffa: you do... I'm sure of it... | 19:10 |
| SpeedEvil | You can also use password + ssh key. | 19:10 |
| RST38h | can't be extracted without some thermorectal cryptoanalysis | 19:10 |
| Arkenklo | a key is generally safer than a password, because a password is easier leaked | 19:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is secure even if someone steals your brain. | 19:10 |
| RST38h | Arkenklo: how so? | 19:10 |
| * lbt aims a gun at RST38h | 19:10 | |
| Arkenklo | RST38h: it's more lightly that someone will sniff the password from behird your shoulder than it is for them to sniff a file | 19:11 |
| * lbt wonders if he'll die to keep the pw safe? | 19:11 | |
| * RST38h moos at lbt | 19:11 | |
| johnx | lbt, and gets him to hand over his ~/.ssh? | 19:11 |
| lbt | can't do that though... | 19:11 |
| lbt | just different approaches to getting the 'key' | 19:11 |
| * RST38h makes a case for open source passwords: if you die, people can still log in | 19:12 | |
| lbt | but you're 100% correct that the passwd in ~ needs protecting | 19:12 |
| Arkenklo | holy shitnipples, I just realized that I can simply copy my ~/.ssh to mah future n900, and everything will work | 19:12 |
| javispedro | so you end up setting up a password for the key file, and back to stage 1. | 19:12 |
| Arkenklo | linux is awesome | 19:12 |
| zerojay | lol | 19:12 |
| RST38h | more or less | 19:12 |
| lbt | luckily ssh allows a passphrase to encrypt it | 19:12 |
| lbt | Arkenklo: yes | 19:12 |
| johnx | it's all just a matter of what compromises you're willing to make | 19:12 |
| Arkenklo | a key + phrase is better than anything | 19:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: key + phrase + token | 19:13 |
| Arkenklo | well, within reasonable bounds | 19:13 |
| lbt | Arkenklo: you need to copy id_rsa.pub to authorized_keys too | 19:13 |
| Arkenklo | lbt: right | 19:13 |
| Jaffa | lbt: I'll investigate | 19:13 |
| lbt | Jaffa: :) | 19:13 |
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| lbt | if you do support it I'll volunteer to help on that side | 19:14 |
| Arkenklo | this reminds me, I recently was able to retrieve a private key stored on one of my schools servers | 19:14 |
| johnx | wrong read permissions? | 19:14 |
| Arkenklo | indeed | 19:14 |
| Arkenklo | the entire root filesystem was mounted as a network share, lol | 19:14 |
| johnx | if the permissions are wrong generally ssh keeps you from logging in with it | 19:15 |
| johnx | ah, so just a brain dead setup | 19:15 |
| lbt | Jaffa: also avatars from Gravatar.com ? | 19:15 |
| lbt | and maybe maemo? | 19:15 |
| * timeless_mbp looks for people who have tried a certain package | 19:15 | |
| lbt | timeless_mbp: ah, *that* package | 19:15 |
| lbt | the brown paper one? | 19:16 |
| lbt | *nod* *wink* | 19:16 |
| Robot101 | "software fails in a certain situation" | 19:16 |
| Robot101 | a bug title for 50% of the bugs :) | 19:16 |
| Arkenklo | cat rcd.pem | 19:16 |
| Arkenklo | -----BEGIN RSA PRIVATE KEY----- | 19:16 |
| Arkenklo | MIICWwIBAAKBgQC3RvYfdoqy7BhsH2+m+4o2hN8ZfuTArnSDeiNud4YXyOGhjPDe | 19:16 |
| RST38h | Do we need to see that? | 19:17 |
| Arkenklo | RST38h: no, right. | 19:17 |
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| lbt | a pem is a cert, not an ssh key | 19:17 |
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| Arkenklo | yeah, there a "BEGIN CERTIFICATE" as well | 19:18 |
| lbt | nothing to do with ssh | 19:18 |
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| lbt | you might be able to hack the ldap server. But it's probably easier to phone up and claim to be the school admin office. | 19:19 |
| lbt | debuild -b | 19:19 |
| lbt | sb_gcc_wrapper (gcc): /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc: No such file or directory | 19:19 |
| lbt | nice | 19:19 |
| * lbt likes scratchbox *so* much | 19:19 | |
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| Arkenklo | indeed, but applying social engineering is too easy, plus I don't want it to appear as I'm actively trying to hack | 19:20 |
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| * timeless_mbp frowns | 19:29 | |
| * Firebird also frowns | 19:29 | |
| lbt | jeremiah: ping | 19:30 |
| Firebird | woo, "[2009-10-17 19:34:13] libsdl1.3 0.0~git has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository" | 19:30 |
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| lardman | aargh, bloody Debian building! | 19:32 |
| johnx | fighting with dpkg? | 19:33 |
| lardman | nah, got some ubuntu packages I'm trying to get to build | 19:33 |
| lardman | and everything it wants we don't have, in terms of the version #s | 19:34 |
| lardman | is there a dh_* that tries to build a ./debian dir and fill it in? | 19:34 |
| Firebird | dh_make? | 19:34 |
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| RST38h | lardman: Btw how is libchamplain stuff going? | 19:34 |
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| lardman | RST38h: in extras-devel, however I don't see any output on the screen | 19:35 |
| lardman | no maps anyway | 19:35 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 19:35 |
| lardman | am talking to the dev about how to fix/debug it | 19:35 |
| Jaffa | lbt: gravatar's a good idea. Not sure how to link on maemo.org | 19:35 |
| lardman | am also part way through porting emerillon, which looks like what I was planning to write | 19:35 |
| RST38h | the developer guy aggregates his blog via Planet Maemo | 19:35 |
| RST38h | so he should be aware of the tablets' existance =) | 19:36 |
| lardman | yeah, used to work for Collabora | 19:36 |
| Firebird | finally, libsdl1.3 is in extras-devel | 19:36 |
| lardman | RST38h: but has no N900 as his work was internal, so only 55 karmas | 19:36 |
| * RST38h still hopes Gnuite returns and ports Maemo Mapper =) | 19:36 | |
| RST38h | lardman: shame =( | 19:36 |
| lardman | RST38h: will it not cross-compile? | 19:36 |
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| RST38h | Also shame that Gnuite does not have an N900 | 19:37 |
| RST38h | lardman: Don't think so, or it would be already in the repo | 19:37 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: There were issues with prototypes and NDAs going into Google offices :-/ | 19:37 |
| lbt | http://maemo.org/profile/view/<handle> | scrape-avatar | 19:37 |
| lardman | s/cross-// | 19:37 |
| infobot | lardman meant: RST38h: will it not compile? | 19:37 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Will he get a discount though/ | 19:37 |
| Jaffa | lbt: how to find a contact's handle? | 19:37 |
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| lardman | I reckon it should compile ok, with only some minor changes for the GPS stuff | 19:38 |
| RST38h | I mean, Gnuite could have done it as a private developer. I never order anything to my work address. | 19:38 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Everyone who wasn't a Nokian or sub-contractor with karma >200 got offered | 19:38 |
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| lardman | RST38h: yeah, but people know his position | 19:38 |
| lardman | and he couldn't come to the summit afaiu as he was doing the GSoC stuff | 19:38 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: It's a clear conflict of interest, no matter how trustworthy to either Google or Nokia he is | 19:38 |
| lardman | or so I heard | 19:38 |
| lbt | Jaffa: add the field ? | 19:38 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I do not see it as a clear conflict, but yea, it can be seen this way | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Match on nickname? | 19:39 |
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| lbt | <irc handle> | 19:39 |
| lbt | yes | 19:39 |
| lardman | am beginning to wish I had picked up a loan device at the conf though so I could pass it on | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Will do. | 19:39 |
| lardman | s/conf/summit | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | lardman: I think it'd've been unethical TBH | 19:40 |
| JackBeSlow | Anyone know what happened to canola? A long time ago development was moving at a good pace and they came out with some cool stuff. And then it seems everything has stopped for about a year now. The site has not even been updated... | 19:40 |
| * RST38h hates, Hates, HATES "internet video". Who ever thought that smeary, jittery, out of focus YouTube video would be considered "normal"? | 19:40 | |
| lbt | speaking of which... is there an ETA for the summit video? | 19:41 |
| RST38h | lardman: Well that would be a violation of the NDA | 19:41 |
| * lbt wants to see the talks he missed | 19:41 | |
| lbt | (including contact/addressbook) | 19:41 |
| RST38h | lardman: If Nokia does not want to see Maemo Mapper in Fremantle Extras ASAP, who are we to disagree? :) | 19:42 |
| johnx | JackBeSlow, development is definitely still in progress but I don't think they update the site all that often | 19:43 |
| javispedro | wasn't m-m a fremantle star? | 19:43 |
| lardman | Jaffa: yeah, but Quim seemed to assume it had happened from reading TMO | 19:43 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Maemo Mapper was a Fremantle Star. gnuite doesn't seem to have done anything | 19:43 |
| lardman | RST38h: yeah | 19:43 |
| JackBeSlow | ah, ok. | 19:43 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Really? | 19:43 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h, no, it wouldn't have been a NDA breach | 19:43 |
| lardman | Jaffa: did you not read the TMO thread about getting devices for devs with low karma? | 19:43 |
| lardman | read the last 2 pages | 19:43 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: how so? | 19:43 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h, well, the loan paper says you're "provided with a device" | 19:44 |
| lbt | gnuite has plenty of karma | 19:44 |
| johnx | JackBeSlow, somtimes people are on #canola (depending on the time of day) | 19:44 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Haven't heard anything from/about Gnuite for months =( | 19:44 |
| crashanddie_ | it only says you have to give it back, bla bla bla, it doesn't say you are the one who has to use it | 19:44 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: oh you are talking of the "new" NDA... | 19:44 |
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| crashanddie_ | RST38h, there's only one that concerns the summit n900 | 19:45 |
| JackBeSlow | johnx: Already there talking to them, thanks :) | 19:45 |
| lardman | well we have to sign that one now anyway I understand | 19:45 |
| RST38h | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=349605#post349605 <=== guy has a point | 19:45 |
| RST38h | lardman: I still can't figure out this one | 19:45 |
| lardman | how to do it? Or what? | 19:47 |
| lardman | Should be pretty easy to achieve, would prefer to integrate it with the camera app though | 19:47 |
| RST38h | whether we need to sign the second one | 19:48 |
| lardman | may be slow of course to do the processing, but c'est la vie | 19:48 |
| SpeedEvil | to do it right you need a tripod or a rectifier | 19:48 |
| RST38h | lardman: should discuss this with ab, unless he finds time to read t.m.o | 19:48 |
| lardman | RST38h: oh, well the way I read it we were supposed to, but no-one replied to VDVsx's qiestion | 19:48 |
| johnx | too bad there's no tripod mount | 19:48 |
| RST38h | Speed: not if you make shots in quick succession | 19:48 |
| lardman | afaicr | 19:48 |
| RST38h | Speed: which you CAN do with programmable camera | 19:48 |
| johnx | that would have been quite cool for bikes/cars/tripods | 19:49 |
| RST38h | lardman: sending certified mail from here to .fi is $40. So I am reluctant for now =) | 19:49 |
| lardman | will be same sort of cost from here | 19:49 |
| RST38h | Yes, but you can just send with Royal Mail =) | 19:50 |
| lardman | and if it doesn't arrive (due to strike/stealing/random crushing event)?! ;) | 19:50 |
| JackBeSlow | does Royal Mail offer insurance? :) | 19:50 |
| RST38h | Has better chance of arriving than if I send it with Post of Russia | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I doubt the camera reads out much faster than 1/3s or so - probably slower | 19:51 |
| lbt | how to check between fremantle and diablo from shell ? | 19:51 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, humm, if you sign the new one, your loan will be reduced to 6 months, right ? | 19:51 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Guess so | 19:51 |
| SpeedEvil | (the good camera) | 19:51 |
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| RST38h | VDVsx: But I hope to buy m own in these 6 months anyway | 19:51 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, ok, so I don't know anything about that and this conversation never happened ;) | 19:52 |
| javispedro | actually, do you really believe nokia will ask you for your devices back in 6 months? | 19:52 |
| javispedro | they will be worthless for nokia., | 19:52 |
| lardman | JackBeSlow: only up to ~£50 or so | 19:52 |
| lardman | perhaps less | 19:52 |
| lbt | there's no /etc/maemo_release on the device | 19:52 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, I'm not sure if I can, so I'ill remain quite in the meantime | 19:52 |
| JackBeSlow | lame | 19:52 |
| JackBeSlow | When the USPS was in the habit of losing things I started insuring letters etc for $1000, it cost me about $2 so I figured it's like playing the lottery | 19:54 |
| lardman | lol | 19:54 |
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| johnx | JackBeSlow, I take it you didn't win? | 19:55 |
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| JackBeSlow | Nope :( lol | 19:55 |
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| JackBeSlow | Do you think there is a chance of a price drop for the n900 in the next couple of months? I have talked myself into getting one, but the price is still staggering for me. | 19:58 |
| Arkenklo | JackBeSlow: the price usually is highest just after launch | 19:58 |
| Arkenklo | I expect some wicked cristmas-offers | 19:59 |
| * lardman prays for a simultaneous drop in the Euro and amazing rise in the £ to make it cheaper ;) | 19:59 | |
| johnx | if someone told me I had to bet on when the price drop would be, I'd say sometime in January | 19:59 |
| johnx | lardman, wouldn't that destroy your economy in terms of exports? | 19:59 |
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| doc|home | JackBeSlow: not with the way the US dollar is going | 20:00 |
| JackBeSlow | Arkenklo: Hmm, good point. I think I may wait until then. | 20:00 |
| Arkenklo | johnx: who cares, he gets his n900 | 20:00 |
| JackBeSlow | doc|home: Well we can already get it on amazon etc for $580 which is a heck of a lot cheaper than the price overseas. | 20:00 |
| lardman | johnx: who cares, only needs to be for a week ;) | 20:01 |
| doc|home | JackBeSlow: no/less taxes | 20:01 |
| lardman | and we don;t have anyone employed anymore doing any exporting | 20:01 |
| Arkenklo | what's the euro-price from the nokiashop after rebate? | 20:01 |
| JackBeSlow | doc|home: amazon does not tax unless you are from certain states. | 20:02 |
| doc|home | JackBeSlow: that's my point. Overseas prices generally include VAT (e.g.) | 20:02 |
| crashanddie_ | spotify:track:2TYpUo7kRQcJe9U6j7C9Qs | 20:02 |
| crashanddie_ | woops | 20:02 |
| JackBeSlow | doc|home: never knew that | 20:02 |
| doc|home | JackBeSlow: in Ireland for one, that's an extra 20/21% | 20:03 |
| JackBeSlow | wow | 20:03 |
| doc|home | yep | 20:03 |
| timoph | in Finland we pay extra 22% | 20:04 |
| JackBeSlow | Is that just a normal sales tax? | 20:04 |
| timoph | yes | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | VAT in Germany 19% | 20:05 |
| Stskeeps | 25 in .dk | 20:05 |
| timoph | ouch | 20:06 |
| JackBeSlow | Do you guys feel like those taxes are actually being put to some good use? That seems incredibly high to me. | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | which taxes ever had been put to good use? :-P | 20:06 |
| JackBeSlow | I mean I have a 7% state tax but that does not apply to anything I get online. | 20:06 |
| JackBeSlow | DocScrutinizer: :( good point. | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | i get free school,uni,doctor,hospital / healthcare, etc | 20:07 |
| Stskeeps | i dont mind. | 20:07 |
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| lardman | VAT in UK is only 15% | 20:08 |
| lardman | atm, | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | wow, healthcare is another xx% of your income here | 20:08 |
| JackBeSlow | Well considering Uni costs me about $6k a year, one trip to the doctors with swine flue cost me $1200 and that was with insurance...I see your point. | 20:08 |
| Arkenklo | after rebate the price in italy is 479 euro | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | for swine-flu? | 20:09 |
| timoph | :) | 20:09 |
| JackBeSlow | My parents medical insurance is higher than their mortgage. | 20:09 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: officially there's some other way to get the system version, i don't remember what :) | 20:09 |
| JackBeSlow | yeah it spread pretty wide here, there were a few hundred cases at my school. | 20:10 |
| * frals enjoys univeristy for free and "free" healthcare | 20:10 | |
| woglinde | hi | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | frals: is your university education valuable? | 20:10 |
| woglinde | hm what should I buy in cambridge | 20:10 |
| lbt | if [ -z "$oldversion" -a -x /usr/bin/maemo-select-menu-location ]; then | 20:10 |
| lbt | <sigh> | 20:10 |
| woglinde | args there is the raynair backage limit | 20:10 |
| frals | well, its one of the best in sweden, so id say so, wont know until i get a job i guess | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | i've found the people i've met in certain countries with university educations did not get something i'd consider valuable | 20:11 |
| pupnik | with free university edutacions | 20:11 |
| pupnik | sydlexisa | 20:11 |
| pupnik | but also now with private. turns out these investments were overvalued | 20:12 |
| pupnik | and the content watered down | 20:12 |
| javispedro | pupnik, agreed. | 20:12 |
| javispedro | this happens more than what I liked.... | 20:12 |
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| Arkenklo | I'm not yet educationally at university level, but I don't feel I have any use of anything within my scope of interest, because I already know everything | 20:13 |
| woglinde | Arkenklo lol | 20:13 |
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| pupnik | people are asking harder questions today. "do i need this|" | 20:14 |
| Arkenklo | I basically know everything about computers except SQL-syntax | 20:14 |
| lbt | hmm. Forcing xrandr is....interesting | 20:14 |
| Arkenklo | s/except/up to | 20:14 |
| woglinde | Arkenklo univeristy is not about teaching comp languages | 20:14 |
| Firebird | javispedro, care to write a gles program to test sdl1.3 performance/if it works at all? | 20:14 |
| woglinde | Arkenklo univeristy is for understabding process and making science | 20:14 |
| frals | dunno, my education is about getting the "foundation" for programming languages/object oriented design/math | 20:15 |
| woglinde | working scientific | 20:15 |
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| javispedro | Firebird: not today, I was sick yesterday and decided not to code today. | 20:15 |
| javispedro | and in fact I should be outside. | 20:15 |
| Firebird | ah, alright, I'll see if I can get something out of this OGLES book | 20:16 |
| Arkenklo | woglinde: indeed, but it's hard for me to compare to a concept I have no knowledge about, sql was just the first thing I could think of | 20:16 |
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| Arkenklo | I actually teach my TEACHER things | 20:17 |
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| woglinde | arkenklo *g* | 20:17 |
| Firebird | javispedro, does maemo have a define like: "#ifdef __IPHONEOS__" ? | 20:18 |
| woglinde | Firebird lol | 20:19 |
| lardman | hmm, anyone know how I get debian/rules to use autotools? | 20:19 |
| Firebird | heh | 20:19 |
| lardman | (yuck! ;)) | 20:19 |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenklo: anyway... | 20:19 |
| Firebird | woglinde, saw it in a SDL header file | 20:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | university and pre university are good times to learn languages | 20:20 |
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| woglinde | lardman hm most I saw using autoreconf directly | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | learn about culture | 20:20 |
| woglinde | but let me google quick | 20:20 |
| Arkenklo | culture? | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | socialize | 20:20 |
| Arkenklo | human culture? | 20:20 |
| javispedro | Arkenklo: i know quite a lot of bright C.S. people (and I mean REALLY bright) who get lost when the window "Open with..." dialog comes up while they try to open un PDF files. be kind. | 20:20 |
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| javispedro | s/window/Windows | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | stuff that predates the modern era | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: they need to upgrade to GMail | 20:20 |
| lardman | woglinde: ok, thanks | 20:20 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: you mean like before... before 4chan? | 20:21 |
| timeless_mbp | gmail solves that problem... | 20:21 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: grr | 20:21 |
| Arkenklo | timeless_mbp: unless you're talking about computer hardware, you lost me | 20:21 |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenklo: see, University is a great way for you to learn what i'm talking about | 20:21 |
| timeless_mbp | it'll help you when you travel to BoFs | 20:21 |
| javispedro | Firebird: lbt was asking this moments ago.... If you're using hildon, you have a predefined HILDON_VERSION macro. If you don't, you can read /etc/maemo_version file in the makefile and define the macros yourself. | 20:21 |
| javispedro | but /maemo_version file is not present in device, only from maemo-version package in autobuilder. | 20:22 |
| javispedro | er.. sdk. | 20:22 |
| woglinde | lardman hm all I found is autotools-dev package which should explain it | 20:23 |
| woglinde | http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/tools.html#autotools-dev | 20:23 |
| woglinde | dont know if it is maemo | 20:23 |
| * timeless_mbp goes to try to hunt dinner (again) | 20:23 | |
| * javispedro goes outside for a walk. see you. | 20:24 | |
| woglinde | good lick timeless | 20:24 |
| lardman | woglinde: such a pita all this stuff | 20:24 |
| woglinde | args luck | 20:24 |
| lardman | :( | 20:24 |
| woglinde | lardman in oe we do inherit autotools_stage | 20:24 |
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| woglinde | and sometimes have to delete old autoconf stuff | 20:24 |
| woglinde | before | 20:25 |
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| woglinde | to get the newer libtool forinstance | 20:25 |
| Arkenklo | I still think that the knowledge gained in classrooms is far overshadowed by that gained by simply playing around with stuff | 20:26 |
| crashanddie_ | Jaffa, you up for drinks next week? | 20:27 |
| * crashanddie_ lost his mentor today :( | 20:27 | |
| woglinde | Arkenklo hm theoretical computer sience is a must | 20:27 |
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| woglinde | so you can judge some implementations | 20:27 |
| Arkenklo | woglinde: please define | 20:27 |
| crashanddie_ | woglinde, not true | 20:27 |
| woglinde | crashanddie bah | 20:27 |
| crashanddie_ | woglinde, first rule of computer science: any implementation done by anyone else than yourself is UTTER SHIT | 20:27 |
| woglinde | O notation | 20:27 |
| woglinde | crashanddie *g* | 20:28 |
| glass | woglinde: theoretical is necessary to understand why some guys came up with utter shit implementations despite theoretically being fairly capable | 20:29 |
| glass | ah well, that, and reading dilbert | 20:29 |
| woglinde | glass yes we must have smoething to seperate aus from the avaerage php-programmer slave | 20:30 |
| crashanddie_ | Arkenklo, it's like with anything. If you want to be a doctor, but don't understand the theory behind what you're supposed to analyse, how are you any good at it? | 20:30 |
| woglinde | args I am typing to fast | 20:30 |
| Arkenklo | for me, learning the theory is obligatory in all situations | 20:30 |
| Arkenklo | otherwise you haven't learned anything | 20:30 |
| crashanddie_ | programming is not based on the language you used | 20:30 |
| glass | playing around with stuff gets to know how the stuff really goes | 20:30 |
| pupnik | the questionr should be how much theory, not whether or none | 20:30 |
| crashanddie_ | the language, aka syntax, is just there to enable you, but the real magic happens in the way you see the issue and solution | 20:31 |
| Arkenklo | crashanddie_: absolutely | 20:31 |
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| zerojay | VDVsx: By the way, no, signing the new NDA will not mean we have to return our year loaners back in 6 months. Quim already answered about that. | 20:31 |
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| RobertH[AU] | hey all, can anyone tell me how hard would it be to recompile gcc on the sdk to include fortran support so that i can compile octave? | 20:32 |
| Arkenklo | maybe it's just me, but the best way for me to learn (and more importantly, understand) the theory and mechanics behind somethingis to see it in action | 20:33 |
| lardman | RobertH[AU]: hmm, nasty | 20:33 |
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| lardman | RobertH[AU]: try compiling f2c and using that | 20:33 |
| woglinde | lardman fortran? | 20:34 |
| lardman | RobertH[AU]: iirc it worked last time I tried to compile octave | 20:34 |
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| woglinde | jo ph5 | 20:34 |
| lardman | woglinde: yeah | 20:34 |
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| pH5 | hej woglinde | 20:34 |
| woglinde | lardman ah right ocatve use it | 20:35 |
| mgedmin | what's with skype file transfers on the n900? | 20:35 |
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| Arkenklo | that's one of the reasons I'm attracted to FOSS, everything just makes sense | 20:35 |
| woglinde | Arkenklo lol | 20:35 |
| lardman | woglinde: yeah, all engineering/maths sw is written in it | 20:35 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: Um.. okay.. what's with skype file transfers on the N900? | 20:35 |
| Arkenklo | things are where you expect them to be | 20:35 |
| woglinde | Arkenklo nope | 20:35 |
| mgedmin | they don't work | 20:35 |
| mgedmin | I get a message "$foo sent file $filename" then nothing happens | 20:35 |
| woglinde | Arkenklo try read about forks and flames | 20:35 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: I never expected file transfers to work. | 20:36 |
| woglinde | Arkenklo try to find about theo de raadt or joerg schilling | 20:36 |
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| zerojay | Don't work on the other protocols.. but then again I don't see a "send file" for them. | 20:36 |
| mgedmin | neither did I, but why the message then? | 20:36 |
| mgedmin | I'd understand "$user tried to send file, but this is not supported yet" | 20:36 |
| Arkenklo | woglinde: "A flame fork is essential metal tubing connected to a propane tank." | 20:36 |
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| woglinde | arkenklo *sigh* | 20:37 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: Yeah, strange. Maybe they just weren't able to finish it yet in the firmware we have. | 20:37 |
| mgedmin | heh, I can imagine the source code | 20:37 |
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| mgedmin | transcript_window.add_message("USER sent file FILENAME"); | 20:38 |
| mgedmin | / TODO: now do something with it | 20:38 |
| mgedmin | return | 20:38 |
| frals | hehe | 20:38 |
| RobertH[AU] | lardman: i have tried that but i either get a "error: linking to Fortran libraries from C fails" error or a "error: cannot compile a simple Fortran program" error | 20:38 |
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| * mgedmin accidentally discovers a new IRC feature: double // at the beginning is equivalent to /say / | 20:38 | |
| Proteous | /////////// | 20:38 |
| woglinde | mgedmin isnt it a client feature? | 20:38 |
| Arkenklo | woglinde: I'm not going to read about any Theo de Raadt if I don't know why I should | 20:39 |
| lardman | RobertH[AU]: you have to modify the configure script iirc | 20:39 |
| mgedmin | maybe | 20:39 |
| luke-jr | mgedmin: duh | 20:39 |
| frals | pretty sure its client specific ;+ | 20:39 |
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| luke-jr | woglinde: all /commands are client features | 20:39 |
| mgedmin | xchat fwiw | 20:39 |
| lardman | RobertH[AU]: what platform is this? | 20:39 |
| luke-jr | // is common to most (all?) clients as /me | 20:39 |
| Proteous | /nuke luke-jr from orbit | 20:39 |
| RobertH[AU] | i'm running the maemo 5 sdk on ubuntu 8.10 32bit | 20:39 |
| woglinde | Arkenklo because you said in FOSS world all is at it should, but it isnt | 20:40 |
| luke-jr | NUKE Proteous | 20:40 |
| Proteous | heh | 20:40 |
| woglinde | Arkenklo and its a science topic at our university | 20:40 |
| frals | channel wide ctcp :( | 20:40 |
| luke-jr | frals: that's what /me is ;p | 20:40 |
| Arkenklo | woglinde: not in the entire FOSS universe | 20:40 |
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| luke-jr | frals: /me ... == /ctcp <channel> ACTION ... | 20:40 |
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| * Proteous thinks luke-jr doen't know what he is talking about | 20:41 | |
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| zerojay | So why don't our clients interpret it as /me then if it's the same? :) | 20:41 |
| lardman | anyone here built ethos for maemo or debian? | 20:41 |
| woglinde | dinner | 20:42 |
| lardman | mmmm | 20:42 |
| zerojay | Answer: it's not. | 20:42 |
| lardman | :) | 20:42 |
| * frals hugs his mirc32 with proper /me | 20:42 | |
| Proteous | irssi ftw | 20:42 |
| luke-jr | Proteous: try it ;) | 20:42 |
| luke-jr | Wireshark it | 20:43 |
| RobertH[AU] | lardman: do you recall what need's to be modified in the configure script? | 20:43 |
| luke-jr | there is no difference between /me and CTCP | 20:43 |
| Proteous | TESTING 113 | 20:43 |
| Proteous | nope, not that same as /me | 20:43 |
| * timeless kicks proteous | 20:43 | |
| lardman | RobertH[AU]: you'll probably need to alter the test which fails | 20:43 |
| lardman | ah, now I remember | 20:43 |
| Proteous | /me is not ctcp... | 20:43 |
| RobertH[AU] | lardman: haha, alter as in remove? | 20:44 |
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| timeless | please don't do channel wide actions | 20:44 |
| wjt | Proteous: yes it is | 20:44 |
| lardman | there's a shell script you can use in place of g77 | 20:44 |
| luke-jr | Proteous: CTCP ACTION, duh | 20:44 |
| lardman | called, iirc fort77, which uses f2c | 20:44 |
| luke-jr | timeless: you're banning /me ? | 20:44 |
| RobertH[AU] | lardman: ok thanks :) | 20:44 |
| lardman | so get that installed and tell the configure script that's what you're using as your FORTRAN compiler, and all should be right as rain | 20:44 |
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| RobertH[AU] | lardman: is the reason that fortran is not enabled in gcc because of some arm architecture issues? | 20:45 |
| Arkenklo | woglinde: if I didn't totally suck at arguing I'd be happy to continue | 20:46 |
| Arkenklo | but I do, so I can't think of anything to say that isn't pointless and dull | 20:47 |
| zerojay | luke-jr: You must be using some fucked IRC client. | 20:47 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: it has nothing to do with clients | 20:47 |
| luke-jr | it's a protocol design thing | 20:47 |
| GAN900 | zerojay, any additional success with the browser plugins? | 20:47 |
| GAN900 | Also, what about shipping a hosts/CSS .deb? | 20:48 |
| lardman | RobertH[AU]: something like that, plus not many of us want it ;) | 20:48 |
| zerojay | luke-jr: Well, you're wrong because I ran through about 6 clients and none of them see /ctcp action and /me as the same. | 20:48 |
| lardman | RobertH[AU]: is this for the N900? | 20:48 |
| Proteous | well, he's partialy right | 20:48 |
| zerojay | GAN900: That can be done... just a little worried about wiping out changes the user may have made. | 20:48 |
| Proteous | but only in the sence that saying TCP is the same as FTP | 20:48 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: what if someone else sends it? | 20:48 |
| zerojay | luke-jr: Same thing. | 20:49 |
| Proteous | the /me functionality is a feature of CTCP | 20:49 |
| Proteous | but they are not one in the same | 20:49 |
| zerojay | Clients all see /ctcp or /me. Never mixes or gets them wrong. | 20:49 |
| zerojay | GAN900: No luck yet on Flashblock. I think I might not be using an old enough version. | 20:49 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: there is no protocol difference between CTCP ACTION and /me | 20:49 |
| luke-jr | so that is impossible | 20:49 |
| zerojay | luke-jr: Well, the clients show there must be. :) | 20:50 |
| RobertH[AU] | lardman: yes, i read a post on tmo that said frotran used to be in gcc in the sdk's (ages ago) but hen was removed bcuase of some arm issue but the post also meantioned it might not apply now that its armel | 20:50 |
| lardman | applies to GCC 3, not to GCC 4 | 20:50 |
| lardman | no idea why | 20:50 |
| zerojay | GAN900: And AdBlock Plus is now in extras-testing. | 20:50 |
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| GAN900 | Cool | 20:51 |
| RobertH[AU] | lardman: ok, so that issue should be gone. does this mean i can try with fortran enabled? i've never compiled gcc though i imagine it would be quite involved | 20:51 |
| RST38h | Can Adblock+ be configured from the new microb? | 20:51 |
| lardman | yeah, as we use a pre-built toolchain it may be very painful | 20:51 |
| lardman | I'd recommend using fort77 | 20:51 |
| RobertH[AU] | ok | 20:51 |
| RobertH[AU] | i'll look into it | 20:51 |
| lardman | and just compiling and installing f2c (which the fort77 script uses) | 20:52 |
| RobertH[AU] | but i'll have to do that tomorrow, its 2 am here in Perth Australia | 20:52 |
| RobertH[AU] | night all | 20:52 |
| lardman | is actually very easy, fort77 pretends to be a compile, etc | 20:52 |
| * luke-jr wonders if anyone sees this as the CTCP message it is | 20:52 | |
| RobertH[AU] | thanks for your help lardman | 20:52 |
| zerojay | RST38h: Let me try. | 20:52 |
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| lardman | np, catch me tomorrow evening | 20:52 |
| RobertH[AU] | lardman: ok cool, i'll try in the morn | 20:52 |
| RobertH[AU] | kk | 20:52 |
| RobertH[AU] | cya | 20:52 |
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| lardman | good luck :) | 20:52 |
| zerojay | RST38h: The dialog that lets you pick which subscriptions you want does not work, which is why I'm packaging it. | 20:53 |
| mgedmin | the traffic here is killing me | 20:53 |
| zerojay | RST38h: Preferences button from the Add-Ons menu works. | 20:53 |
| zerojay | What traffic? This is quiet. | 20:54 |
| RST38h | coooool | 20:54 |
| luke-jr | zerojay: nobody said that looked like CTCP | 20:54 |
| RST38h | but the subscriptions work right? | 20:54 |
| * mgedmin was trying to catch up with the entire scrollback | 20:54 | |
| zerojay | luke-jr: No one cares. | 20:54 |
| * mgedmin demands iptables for maemo 5 again | 20:54 | |
| zerojay | RST38h: taking the patterns.ini file from your PC install works. | 20:54 |
| * mgedmin will keep demanding in very firm voice until somebody gives in and builds them for him | 20:55 | |
| zerojay | So if you have your subs done on your PC, you can transfer them over and they should work. | 20:55 |
| zerojay | Basically I'm just taking the default patterns.ini file from the default EasyList sub and bringing it over since you can't seem to select it yourself. | 20:55 |
| zerojay | Yeah, the dialog isn't very functional at all. :/ | 20:56 |
| mgedmin | maemo mapper on fremantle is coming! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=330044#post330044 | 20:56 |
| zerojay | RST38h: Only reason I didn't just grab all the country specific ones and stuff them all in patterns.ini is that I wasn't sure if that was going to cause the tablet to slow down or not. | 20:56 |
| zerojay | RST38h: Might try that next. | 20:57 |
| RST38h | zerojay: Grabbing all will most likely slow things down | 20:58 |
| RST38h | zerojay: Configuring depending on locale may work better though | 20:59 |
| RST38h | But patterns do not auto-update, right? | 20:59 |
| zerojay | RST38h: No, but I'll be putting out a bumped version of the package on a monthly basis with the only change being the updated patterns.ini file. | 20:59 |
| RST38h | Ah, thanks =) | 21:00 |
| zerojay | More if anyone thinks it needs to be updated more often. | 21:01 |
| pupnik | what is max n900 fm transmitter range observed? about 90cm here for a clean signal | 21:02 |
| * RST38h wonders what will happen when you stick n900 into a Pringles tube | 21:02 | |
| pupnik | i am impressed idiot governments havent made the fm xmitter a regulatory nightmare | 21:03 |
| johnx | pupnik, from the passenger seat of my car to the antenna sticking out of the a-pillar on the driver's side | 21:03 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h, the end of the world | 21:04 |
| pupnik | about 2m there i guess | 21:04 |
| RST38h | pupnik: They have | 21:04 |
| pupnik | oh | 21:04 |
| johnx | pupnik, it's a small car :) maybe less than 2m (1st gen subaru impreza) | 21:04 |
| RST38h | But fortunately it has been TI's problem, I guess | 21:04 |
| zerojay | Isn't that what the large hardon cylinder thingie that's going to end the world is? An n900 in a pringles can? | 21:04 |
| RST38h | Propelled at the speed of light, yes | 21:05 |
| johnx | zerojay, fruedian slip? | 21:05 |
| pupnik | large hardon cylinder is nice freud | 21:05 |
| pupnik | lol | 21:05 |
| zerojay | johnx: Nope. :) | 21:05 |
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| zerojay | Just my nickname for it. | 21:06 |
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| pupnik | it would be very dilbert if they created a stable black hole or somethin likke tha | 21:29 |
| mgedmin | I wish bugs.maemo.org had a browsing interface like https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi | 21:32 |
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| woglinde | mgedmin write a whishbug | 21:32 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 21:32 | |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: why? | 21:32 |
| woglinde | timeless_mbp whats up? | 21:32 |
| zerojay | mgedmin: https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=specific - not good enough? | 21:33 |
| timeless_mbp | woglinde: well, i'm watching bones | 21:33 |
| woglinde | timeless_mbp hm | 21:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | but i'm trying to figure out if there's some way we could encourage people to be less ... something when they poke bugs | 21:34 |
| timeless_mbp | bugs need to be limited to technical issues w/o advocacy | 21:34 |
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| andre__ | you're quite direct in feedback. | 21:34 |
| andre__ | and people don't know much about internal political issues. | 21:34 |
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| mgedmin | hm, zerojay, you're right, it *is* good enough for what I wanted (see all Modest bugs) | 21:34 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?product=Browser&resolution=--- | 21:35 |
| mgedmin | ? | 21:35 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, if we get into politics with requests in b.g.o i normally assign to quim and keep them open if in doubt. that's really his tasks. | 21:35 |
| timeless_mbp | general browsing :) | 21:35 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: i'd normally leave bugs open | 21:36 |
| timeless_mbp | but if people annoy me, i'll kill them | 21:36 |
| andre__ | i always have the gnome code of conduct in mind which says "Assume people mean well" | 21:37 |
| andre__ | even though sometimes it's hard, i agree | 21:37 |
| johnx | andre__, that's pretty much my guiding principle in life, but it goes more like "Never attribute to malice which can be equally explained by (stupidity | ignorance | incompetence )" | 21:38 |
| SpeedEvil | drunkenness! | 21:39 |
| johnx | exactly | 21:39 |
| Shapeshifter | drunkenness leads to incompetence | 21:39 |
| Shapeshifter | same for ignorance | 21:39 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, but you have more background info than others plus you're into this for years. if n900 is successful bugs.maemo.org will see reports by people that have never ever reported a bug (because it's not possible in the microsoft world). so i want it to be a polite place, even if we get reports that just waste time (-> "Please use a forum instead") | 21:40 |
| pupnik | does anyone with a working fremantle sdk think it would be worthwhile to tarball it and share via torrent? | 21:40 |
| Shapeshifter | which was first, stupidity or malice? | 21:40 |
| Shapeshifter | pupnik: why? | 21:40 |
| pupnik | i am stupid about most things in the universe | 21:40 |
| pupnik | includinng sdk | 21:40 |
| pupnik | i need it all on usb in vmware ultimately | 21:40 |
| pupnik | right now i have to find reflective tape to avoid dying on road | 21:41 |
| Shapeshifter | pupnik: I don't understand, the fremantle sdk is available in two simple scripts to install | 21:41 |
| Shapeshifter | why tar and share it? | 21:41 |
| * timeless_mbp likes bones | 21:43 | |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: actually | 21:43 |
| timeless_mbp | reporting bugs to ms is easy | 21:43 |
| * mgedmin likes regenesis | 21:43 | |
| andre__ | timeless, nowadays it's just a click, yes | 21:43 |
| mgedmin | don't you have to pay for the privilege of reporting a bug to ms? | 21:43 |
| andre__ | but it goes into a black box | 21:43 |
| timeless_mbp | has been for ages | 21:43 |
| * mgedmin admits he never tried | 21:44 | |
| andre__ | like current qt bug tracker :-P | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: hey, i've added stuff to the qt bug tracker | 21:44 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders what ever happened to them | 21:44 | |
| andre__ | exactly. non transparent | 21:44 |
| mgedmin | hm, interesting -- modest only checks subscribed folders, according to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3484 | 21:45 |
| lbt | andre__: the problem is going to be for people who *do* know how to file bugs | 21:45 |
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| lbt | I can understand why Qt don't want a DoS attack by clueless noobies filing bugs when qmake doesn't work in capital | 21:46 |
| lbt | btw where is the N900 crash reporter | 21:47 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: what do you mean? | 21:47 |
| lbt | mentioned in a bug report | 21:48 |
| timeless_mbp | oh yeah, we use it internally | 21:48 |
| timeless_mbp | and it was released for use w/ diablo | 21:48 |
| timeless_mbp | under the name of 'nitro' | 21:48 |
| lbt | ah | 21:48 |
| timeless_mbp | it got rebranded | 21:48 |
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| lbt | that's ... helpful | 21:48 |
| lbt | who the F*** cares what the crash-reporter is called? | 21:49 |
| timeless_mbp | very good question | 21:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | lemme know when you figure that one out | 21:49 |
| lbt | *mutter* | 21:49 |
| andre__ | you can simply install it | 21:50 |
| andre__ | it's available. well, after adding two more repos probably, but... :-P | 21:50 |
| lbt | andre__: ta - mention it's called nitro if you need it :) | 21:50 |
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| Shapeshifter | entering red pill mode is like entering a cheat in a game... | 21:50 |
| Shapeshifter | quite funny I find this. | 21:51 |
| andre__ | crash reporter is already installed here. | 21:52 |
| andre__ | and it's not called nitro anymore i think | 21:52 |
| * andre__ checks | 21:52 | |
| andre__ | no, it's called "crash-reporter" | 21:52 |
| lbt | heh | 21:52 |
| * lbt apologises to those he wronged :) | 21:53 | |
| mgedmin | yay bugzilla! | 21:53 |
| pupnik | what commandline coulud i pas to n900 kernel to enter console runlevel or not load desktop widgets | 21:54 |
| mgedmin | andre__: I tried installing crash-reporter and couldn't | 21:54 |
| pupnik | using flasher 3.0 --boot | 21:54 |
| andre__ | yeah, some deps i don't remember | 21:54 |
| mgedmin | liblzo2-2 | 21:54 |
| mgedmin | which repo has it? | 21:55 |
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| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/crash-reporter | 21:55 |
| mgedmin | lbt: that's... not very informative | 21:55 |
| lbt | it's a start... :( | 21:56 |
| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5 | 21:56 |
| mgedmin | "These tools are available in the official maemo 5 Fremantle tools repository at repository.maemo.org" | 21:56 |
| mgedmin | I have the tools repo enabled | 21:56 |
| mgedmin | it does not have libzlo2-2 | 21:56 |
| mgedmin | *liblzo2-2 | 21:56 |
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| lbt | sure - I didn't realise you'd seen it | 21:56 |
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| pupnik | Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2101 | 22:02 |
| pupnik | NOLO version 1.4.13 | 22:02 |
| pupnik | Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-10_PR_TRUE | 22:02 |
| pupnik | passing 3 to --boot does not give me console | 22:02 |
| pupnik | nor --boot 1 | 22:05 |
| mgedmin | hmm | 22:05 |
| pupnik | if someone knows anything i can pass to kernel to boot wo desktop lemme knw ty | 22:05 |
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| pupnik | assd | 22:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | pupnik: um | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | where precisely do you expect the console to be? | 22:13 |
| lbt | if the ui hangs how do I restart? | 22:13 |
| lbt | I have ssh | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | you can press and hold the power button | 22:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | reboot | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | or do you just want to poke x11? | 22:14 |
| lbt | if possible | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | probably not ;-) | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | actually | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | it is | 22:14 |
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| lbt | S51hildon-desktop restart | 22:15 |
| lbt | ? | 22:16 |
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| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 22:16 | |
| timeless_mbp | what i remember is that the device can pretend to reboot | 22:17 |
| lbt | that was a proper reboot | 22:18 |
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| mgedmin | my ssh connection timed out *over usb0* | 22:56 |
| mgedmin | what the? | 22:56 |
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| johnx | slow usb connection? :P | 22:56 |
| johnx | seriously though: crappy cables? crappy hub? | 22:56 |
| * johnx plays with fremantle-n800 :) | 22:57 | |
| timeless_mbp | fremantle-n800?? | 23:03 |
| * timeless_mbp looks around | 23:03 | |
| johnx | mer :) | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | what version? | 23:04 |
| johnx | the one Stskeeps linked a couple hours ago | 23:04 |
| johnx | don't remember if it was here or #mer | 23:04 |
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| johnx | don't get too excited. it really needs at least a *little* bit of acceleration to be usably fast | 23:05 |
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| johnx | http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/n800-polished.tar.gz | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm using 0.15 | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | what's the latest vmx? | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | err vmdk | 23:07 |
| johnx | probably the 0.16 (if it finished building?) | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | building still in imager | 23:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | imager? | 23:08 |
| Stskeeps | the thing that builds vmdk,tar.gz etc | 23:09 |
| RST38h | A 75-year-old dead man sat decomposing on his Marina del Rey balcony for days because neighbors thought the body was part of a Halloween display and didnt call police. | 23:12 |
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| johnx | kinda makes it sound like he was dead for 75 years | 23:12 |
| RST38h | Such cases are also known | 23:13 |
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| MrGoose | who died? | 23:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | so... | 23:31 |
| * timeless_mbp fishes for people w/ n900s | 23:31 | |
| johnx | so what? | 23:31 |
| * timeless_mbp is greedy | 23:32 | |
| * timeless_mbp wants testers | 23:32 | |
| Lynoure | timeless_mbp: ? | 23:32 |
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| Lynoure | timeless_mbp: for what? | 23:32 |
| javispedro | they're all busy playing bounce evolution. | 23:32 |
| timeless_mbp | my English translation | 23:32 |
| Lynoure | of what? | 23:32 |
| timeless_mbp | the n900 | 23:32 |
| Lynoure | my N900 already is in English. | 23:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | um... | 23:33 |
| Lynoure | only ran into something weird with some app... | 23:33 |
| ifreq | i thought it comes with klingon | 23:33 |
| Lynoure | Instructions said Ok to quit and Cancel to stay, but buttons said Yes and No | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | sounds like maemo mapper | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | or a web app | 23:33 |
| Lynoure | web | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah | 23:34 |
| timeless_mbp | we know | 23:34 |
| * timeless_mbp yelled at someone about that | 23:34 | |
| timeless_mbp | not sure if we'll be able to fix it | 23:34 |
| timeless_mbp | the hazards of caving to clueless platform ui designers with a misdirected bent on platform unity | 23:34 |
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| cvandonderen | is it correct that Fremantle does not use Xrandr? | 23:39 |
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| woglinde | cvandonderen seems so | 23:40 |
| woglinde | it uses window atomics | 23:40 |
| RST38h | watching video on these things is goooood | 23:41 |
| woglinde | rst? | 23:41 |
| javispedro | well, atoms are for telling the wm if the window supports/requests rotation | 23:41 |
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| RST38h | woglinde: nothing, just watched a few last soap episodes on the tablet | 23:41 |
| woglinde | javis hm right | 23:41 |
| javispedro | but I don't know if the wm itself uses xrandr to do the actual rotation. | 23:41 |
| javispedro | or just sets some magic flags in the compositor. | 23:41 |
| woglinde | rst ah right some guys doubled the work and uses gst-dsp instead of gst-ti | 23:42 |
| RST38h | javispedro: The most obvious idea would be to simply resize the window | 23:42 |
| woglinde | I like the gst-ti appriach more | 23:42 |
| RST38h | woglinde: what is the difference? | 23:42 |
| RST38h | javispedro: so, resizing it from 800x480 to 480x800 is not elite enough or am I missing something? | 23:42 |
| javispedro | RST38h: dunno, I've nothing against any of the approaches. it's just a matter of looking at hildon-desktop source and see what it does. | 23:43 |
| woglinde | rst hm | 23:43 |
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| woglinde | rst gst-ti has more kernel modules in the end | 23:44 |
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| woglinde | some with power saving | 23:44 |
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| dark | Helloo everybody | 23:48 |
| RST38h | woglinde: so, gst-ti is supplied by ti and gst-dsp is done by some beagle guys? | 23:48 |
| felipec | gst-dsp was done mostly by me | 23:49 |
| felipec | gst-ti is for davinci platform, depends on codec-engine, and dmai, and uses the dsp-link driver | 23:49 |
| RST38h | felipec: :)))) | 23:49 |
| woglinde | RST38h yeah | 23:49 |
| woglinde | gst-ti is for ompa35xx too | 23:50 |
| felipec | gst-dsp is for dsp-bridge driver, and has no dependencies whatsoever | 23:50 |
| RST38h | well I can almost guess how the choice has been motivated | 23:50 |
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| felipec | RST38h: how would that be? | 23:51 |
| woglinde | RST38h ti is trying to most of stuff public under gpl or similar | 23:51 |
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| RST38h | felipec: "some weird stuff from ti depending on other weird stuff, supported by some unnamed person at ti to whom you are supposed to talk through 3 managers" | 23:51 |
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| Macer | hello | 23:52 |
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| woglinde | RST38h nope | 23:52 |
| Macer | can someone try out http://tech.rancorous.net | 23:52 |
| Macer | ? | 23:52 |
| woglinde | the people are known | 23:52 |
| * GAN900 really wants to stab aolsystemmsg to death | 23:52 | |
| Macer | and just let me know if it connects and displays | 23:52 |
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| woglinde | they even have a channel gere | 23:52 |
| woglinde | here | 23:52 |
| woglinde | #gst-ti | 23:52 |
| RST38h | woglinde: then why? | 23:52 |
| andre__ | Macer, yes, I can see a webpage. Your server works. | 23:52 |
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| frals | Macer: works for me | 23:52 |
| Macer | awesome. thanks :) | 23:52 |
| GAN900 | I recall why I maintained a separate AIM account for my tablet. | 23:52 |
| felipec | the biggest mistake from TI was to provide two solutions, one for davinci platform and another one for the wireless stuff | 23:52 |
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| RST38h | Macer: Works | 23:53 |
| zerojayN900 | so... have I missed any more ranting? | 23:53 |
| RST38h | felipec: Oh... | 23:53 |
| felipec | both of them deviating from the open-source implementations | 23:53 |
| Macer | well.. let me start up the other vbox and see if my server crashes again | 23:53 |
| RST38h | felipec: Are they unifying it now though? | 23:53 |
| woglinde | felpic am I right you are depening on the dsp files? | 23:53 |
| Shapeshifter | why do you people not use screen to use irc/IM from various places | 23:53 |
| * RST38h uses screen. Why ask? | 23:54 | |
| felipec | RST38h: yeah, I think that's their plan for OMAP4, but OMAP3 seems to be screwed | 23:54 |
| * Stskeeps too | 23:54 | |
| zerojayN900 | because i choose not to. | 23:54 |
| Stskeeps | and xchat when on low latency | 23:54 |
| Stskeeps | er, high | 23:54 |
| felipec | woglinde: dsp files? | 23:55 |
| mgedmin | Shapeshifter: because screen hates me | 23:55 |
| wnd | and then there are irc proxies | 23:55 |
| mgedmin | it tends to fsck things up | 23:55 |
| Shapeshifter | mgedmin: it does? | 23:55 |
| woglinde | felpic the .c64 | 23:55 |
| Shapeshifter | how so? :| | 23:55 |
| mgedmin | e.g. on a n900 do ssh someserver; mutt --> all works | 23:55 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: screen requires regular sacrifice | 23:55 |
| mgedmin | do ssh someserver; screen mutt -> enter no longer is an enter, but "unknown keybinding" | 23:55 |
| felipec | woglinde: no, TI provide us with the final .dll64P files | 23:55 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: not much though, a hamster or two a week will do | 23:55 |
| Shapeshifter | mgedmin: mh | 23:55 |
| mgedmin | I assume it works for you with irssi? | 23:56 |
| woglinde | felipec yeah in gst-ti you can work on them too | 23:56 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: switch to FreeBSD and PINE, work beautifully with screen | 23:56 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Besides, you get an additional advantage of using the PICO! | 23:56 |
| Shapeshifter | The only problem I ever had with screen is when I used it on cygwin, where not detaching manually would lead to the session being broken and impossible to attach to again. | 23:56 |
| Shapeshifter | all the time | 23:56 |
| * RST38h laughs satanically | 23:56 | |
| Shapeshifter | so, screen is pretty much broken in cygwin I think. | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | :autodetach on | 23:56 |
| Shapeshifter | Stskeeps: it was on | 23:56 |
| RST38h | Shape: s/screen/everything/ | 23:57 |
| mgedmin | also screen tends to slow things down noticeably | 23:57 |
| RST38h | not really | 23:57 |
| felipec | woglinde: probably, but gst-ti is for dsp-link, which is not supported by TI wireless division, which is the one for phones | 23:57 |
| felipec | woglinde: and dsp-link doesn't have power management AFAIK | 23:57 |
| zerojayN900 | i prefer using a tablet client when i'm on it. | 23:57 |
| woglinde | felipec hu??? there is a kernel module for it | 23:58 |
| felipec | woglinde: so? N900 is a consumer product, we need official support from the chipset vendor, and TI's solution is with dsp-bridge, not dsp-link | 23:58 |
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| woglinde | felipec hm yes I understand that | 23:59 |
| felipec | woglinde: and again, dsp-link doesn't support power management, which is critical in a phone | 23:59 |
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