| mgedmin900 | WANT IPTABLES | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| aSIMULAter | hfc? | 00:00 |
| lardman | JamieBennett: if I open a dialog I lose UI functionalityu | 00:00 |
| lcuk | lardman, is this still the slow processing of a frame | 00:00 |
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| GeneralAntilles | aSIMULAter, high fructose corn syrup. | 00:00 |
| aSIMULAter | ok | 00:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | That evil artificial stuff that'll give you diabetes. | 00:00 |
| aSIMULAter | yeah, nice and healthy | 00:00 |
| aSIMULAter | :P | 00:00 |
| lardman | lcuk: no, that's sorted, onto more esoteric stuff now | 00:00 |
| JamieBennett | whats the call to open the dialogue? | 00:00 |
| lcuk | oooer | 00:00 |
| Proteous | Mmmm, sweet sweet subsidized syrup from coooorrrnnnn | 00:00 |
| aSIMULAter | nom nom | 00:01 |
| lardman | response = gtk_dialog_run(GTK_DIALOG(dialog)); | 00:01 |
| aSIMULAter | karo syrup glug glug | 00:01 |
| lardman | so it blocks | 00:01 |
| JamieBennett | ouch, bad spelling there | 00:01 |
| JamieBennett | lardman ^ | 00:01 |
| aSIMULAter | good nite maemonians | 00:01 |
| lardman | I moved it out of a GStreamer bus callback into a g_idle callback, but only marginally better | 00:01 |
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| lardman | night asimULAt | 00:02 |
| lardman | night aSIMULAter even | 00:02 |
| lardman | anyway, I think user interaction is overrated, they can bloodywell have the browser open the page! ;) | 00:03 |
| JamieBennett | Is the code online lardman? | 00:03 |
| lardman | sure | 00:03 |
| RST38h | Gentlemen, could somebody help me with DBus? | 00:04 |
| JamieBennett | larman: point me in the right direction. Damn, the longer I stay up looking at problems the more I pay for £7 a pint larger! | 00:04 |
| RST38h | I need to figure out how to make my app block waiting for a certain dbus message | 00:04 |
| lardman | JamieBennett: getting there.... | 00:04 |
| mgedmin900 | is it possible to run two instances of dnsmasq at the same time, on different interfaces? | 00:04 |
| lardman | hmm, Garage suffering again, someone reboot the 770! | 00:05 |
| mgedmin900 | I'm having no luck: second dnsmasq tries to bind to 127.0.0.1 and fails | 00:05 |
| * lcuk goes watching transformers 2 | 00:05 | |
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| mgedmin900 | hm, -I lo helps | 00:06 |
| lardman | lcuk: is it out on DVD yet? | 00:06 |
| VRe | hmm.. that /opt/ hack just somehow reminds me of 770 /var/lib/install/ | 00:06 |
| lcuk | dunno | 00:06 |
| JamieBennett | lcuk: Its not a bad film! | 00:06 |
| lardman | ~lart "unable to connect to IM account mes" | 00:06 |
| lcuk | ive gotta find liqremote first tho | 00:06 |
| mgedmin900 | now all I need is iptables to set up NAT | 00:06 |
| * infobot keeps mailing "unable to connect to IM account mes" free America Online CDs until he drowns | 00:06 | |
| lardman | JamieBennett: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/branches/simon_wip/maemo-barcode/?root=maemo-barcode | 00:07 |
| lardman | web.c, last fn | 00:07 |
| lardman | may take you an hour or two to load the page mind you | 00:07 |
| lardman | the code chain starts at handle_barcode_data() in web.c, which is called by the bus callback bus_callback() in camera.c | 00:08 |
| lcuk | lardman, .tar.gz it up without the .svn stuff | 00:09 |
| lardman | sure, hang on a tick | 00:09 |
| lcuk | :D | 00:09 |
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| lcuk | garage needs to be sent to the meta-garage | 00:09 |
| javispedro | :) | 00:09 |
| andre__ | what was again that neat command to find out to which package a file on the system belongs to? | 00:10 |
| Stskeeps | dpkg -S | 00:10 |
| andre__ | this time i'll write it down, thanks | 00:10 |
| mgedmin900 | maemo openssh doesn't support socks proxy emulation? | 00:10 |
| mgedmin900 | andre__, dpkg -S | 00:10 |
| Shapeshifter | http://pastie.org/655186 here's that code again, now with the XOverlay stuf in a callback done by the gstreamer bus as soon as the decodebin2 is ready. Now I actually get the first frame to show up, but it's in its own window and it doesn't update. Any clues why? I'm still getting two errors: GLIB CRITICAL ** default - gst_x_overlay_set_xwindow_id: assertion `GST_IS_X_OVERLAY (overlay)' failed and GLIB WARNING ** hd-task-navigator - ... | 00:10 |
| Shapeshifter | ... XGetClassHint(1200004): failed | 00:10 |
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| Shapeshifter | I want it to be inside the video_output drawingarea. which is what I'm passing to the callback... | 00:11 |
| JamieBennett | lardman: wow, the hotel wifi is slow but getting that page is zzzzzzzzzzzz | 00:11 |
| lardman | JamieBennett: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/mbarcode/maemo-barcode.tar.gz | 00:11 |
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| lardman | JamieBennett: yeah, had Garage problems all day | 00:11 |
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| lardman | that tarball has the fremantle object code in it too | 00:12 |
| mgedmin900 | oh no, silly me forgot the socks port number | 00:12 |
| lardman | lcuk: you after that oo? | 00:12 |
| lardman | s/oo/too | 00:12 |
| lardman | oo! | 00:12 |
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| * mgedmin900 has internet connection sharing, of sorts | 00:12 | |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, ping? | 00:12 |
| JamieBennett | lardman: offending code? (filename) | 00:12 |
| lardman | web.c and camera.c | 00:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | We need Hildon Desktop to do a couple more layers for parallax. | 00:13 |
| lardman | gtk+ api.* | 00:13 |
| lcuk | yeah thanks lardman - i raised the edge barcode algo i played with last year and turned it into a bullseye detector | 00:13 |
| * JamieBennett looks | 00:13 | |
| lcuk | ive been testing on source images directly after loading | 00:13 |
| lcuk | i will use bullseyes to orient the picture i think - and ill try doing it live | 00:14 |
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| lcuk | using the webcam as you suggested | 00:14 |
| lcuk | inverted AR | 00:14 |
| lcuk | move devices and show a window through | 00:14 |
| lardman | lcuk: am thinking of packaging the barcode detection bit (for e.g. use with open camera app_ | 00:14 |
| lardman | ) | 00:14 |
| lcuk | :) | 00:14 |
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| lardman | well let me know how you get on, am happy to help, time allowing | 00:15 |
| lcuk | ill talk to you properly after transformers | 00:15 |
| lcuk | tracy is waiting lol | 00:15 |
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| * lcuk nods | 00:15 | |
| lardman | lol, will be asleep - tomorrow | 00:15 |
| lardman | enjoy!] | 00:15 |
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| lcuk | will see if this works then turn it into a generic opening for * detection | 00:15 |
| lcuk | gnite | 00:15 |
| * lardman apologies for random symbols | 00:15 | |
| JamieBennett | lardman: so the dialog box in web.c doesn't allow interaction? | 00:15 |
| lardman | no, it works fine, just after it's shown nothing works in the ui except for now the X in the top right corner | 00:16 |
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| lardman | when I called directly from the bus callback (in camera.c) even that didn't work | 00:17 |
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| lardman | no clue what's up, but am tempted to just open the URL and not bother asking ;) | 00:17 |
| zeenix | ali1234: where you there? | 00:17 |
| zeenix | ali1234: in my talk i mean | 00:17 |
| JamieBennett | argh what kind of place has no power points in the bar, back to the hotel room | 00:18 |
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| lardman | hmm, at least it will save you beer money ;) | 00:19 |
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| ali1234 | zeenix: one of the slides near the start? | 00:21 |
| RST38h | http://www.newsweek.com/id/216788/output/print | 00:22 |
| RST38h | For anyone who still thought app stores work | 00:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Apple's sure rolling in dough, though. ;) | 00:24 |
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| zerojayN900 | rst, i can't tell you how right that article is. | 00:25 |
| zerojayN900 | i wish i could say everything I want to about it, but ndas... | 00:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojayN900, see my comment on Packages? | 00:25 |
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| zerojayN900 | not yet. | 00:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/the N900/Maemo/ | 00:25 |
| ali1234 | zeenix: yes, sorry, i was at the talk :) | 00:26 |
| zerojayN900 | oh definitely. | 00:26 |
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| zerojayN900 | the site name needs to change, no doubt. | 00:26 |
| javispedro | "lured by its generous revenue-sharing deal" | 00:26 |
| zerojayN900 | lol | 00:26 |
| zerojayN900 | bbs | 00:26 |
| RST38h | zerojay: I knew it even before Apple rolled out its app store | 00:27 |
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| wazd | GeneralAntilles: pong | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, parallax backgrounds are what we need. | 00:29 |
| javispedro | app stores don't work. what I don't understand is why people that heavily criticisized handago, pilotgear, and rest of these hailed the apple store. | 00:29 |
| javispedro | rdf? | 00:29 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: sure :D | 00:30 |
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| RST38h | javis: Because they are hopeless macnuts? | 00:31 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: sometimes I wish you were wrong. Read this pearl: "I used to have a lot of faith in Apple's good will and have been a long-time Mac head, but after this experience, I'll still buy Macs, but I will NEVER do any other kinds of business with them again." | 00:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody got a nice recording study they could get a clip of the N900 keyboard schnict in? :P | 00:36 |
| RST38h | javis: Some people just like anal penetration. | 00:36 |
| RST38h | javis: And come for it again and again. | 00:36 |
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| wazd | I will buy Macs but I'll never power'em up again! | 00:37 |
| Tadthebuilder | if I had an n900 I could do it | 00:37 |
| Tadthebuilder | i dont have my own studio but some friends do haha | 00:37 |
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| zerojayN900 | Gen, i'll make the switch next version. | 00:40 |
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| traut | good evening | 00:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | OK, picture this for the startup animation (stealing timeless and lcuk's ideas) | 00:43 |
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| genewitch1 | is there a way to cat my camera on the n800? | 00:44 |
| genewitch1 | or use mplayer to watch it? | 00:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | The "maemo" in http://maemo.org fades in then short pause and then the .org pops in with the N900 schnict. | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | genewitch1: you know how to use mplayer to play v4l2 devices? | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | (I don't know if that's all that's required) | 00:45 |
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| genewitch1 | mplayer -cache 128 -tv driver=v4l2:width=320:height=240:outfmt=i420 -vc rawi420 tv:// | 00:46 |
| genewitch1 | something like that? | 00:46 |
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| traut | hey, has anyone experienced problems with 'osso_abook_contact_model_get_default' ? | 00:47 |
| lardman | genewitch1: I guess you'll actually need the camera device in there: /dev/video0 | 00:47 |
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| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: I think the startup animation should be whatever we want... selectable ;) | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xisdibik, well, of course, but this is for my http://maemo.org one. ;) | 00:48 |
| traut | "Segmentation fault (core dumped)" when accessing in C code, and the same when accessing through evolution.ebook in python | 00:48 |
| genewitch1 | mplayer -cache 128 -tv driver=v4l2:width=320:height=240:outfmt=uyvy:device=/dev/video0 -vc rawuyvy tv:// | 00:48 |
| genewitch1 | like that? | 00:48 |
| lardman | maybe, no idea really | 00:48 |
| lardman | tho I think I saw a thread about it on TMO | 00:48 |
| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: oh my bad. :) then thats fine | 00:48 |
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| genewitch1 | wow, that worked | 00:49 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Xisdibik: He's just saying that to keep you happy. Really, he wants a maemo.org animation, pre-installed, that you cannot remove | 00:49 |
| lardman | ;) | 00:49 |
| genewitch1 | wow it refreshes really fast like that | 00:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, this is the final for this particular version, I think: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup3.mov | 00:49 |
| * Xisdibik turns green with anger >:O | 00:49 | |
| * mgedmin900 demands iptables now | 00:49 | |
| Xisdibik | what OS do you guys run on your non Nokia devices | 00:50 |
| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: The webpage at http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup3.mov might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address. | 00:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Works here. | 00:51 |
| genewitch1 | worked here too | 00:51 |
| mgedmin900 | Xisdibik, ubuntu | 00:51 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Xisdibik: MS-DOS | 00:51 |
| genewitch1 | i have three ubuntu machines and 2 windows 7 retail machines as of right now | 00:51 |
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| genewitch1 | there's some vista and xp x64 floating around in the apartment as well, though | 00:52 |
| Xisdibik | qwerty12_N810, lol | 00:52 |
| Xisdibik | genewitch1, Windows 7 retail.. hmm its not out yet :P | 00:52 |
| genewitch1 | Xisdibik: signature edition is | 00:52 |
| genewitch1 | and that's what i ahve | 00:52 |
| genewitch1 | have* | 00:52 |
| Xisdibik | signature edition? | 00:52 |
| genewitch1 | yeah | 00:52 |
| Xisdibik | never heard of it | 00:52 |
| Xisdibik | lol | 00:53 |
| genewitch1 | well steve ballmer wanted people to host windows 7 house parties | 00:53 |
| Xisdibik | lol | 00:53 |
| Xisdibik | sounds fishy | 00:53 |
| genewitch1 | and if you got to be a host they'd send you a copy of windows 7 early so you could actually have it all set up for the party which is supposed to occur from oct 22nd - 28th | 00:53 |
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| Xisdibik | and yes it is out just for volume license people ;) | 00:53 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ...where everyone threw chairs on each other? | 00:53 |
| mgedmin900 | that video is awesome, GeneralAntilles | 00:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thanks! | 00:54 |
| genewitch1 | Xisdibik: http://techflash.com/seattle/2009/09/microsoft_plans_thousands_of_neighborhood_parties_for_windows_7.html | 00:54 |
| genewitch1 | i assure you i own a legal copy of windows 7 | 00:54 |
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| Xisdibik | i believe you | 00:54 |
| genewitch1 | Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600] <-- | 00:54 |
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| traut | hm, and how I suppose to fix 'Couldn't initialize osso context' | 00:55 |
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| Xisdibik | genewitch1: where did u go to copy paste that :) | 00:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Google Images, and it was manual OCR | 00:55 |
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| lbt_ | syncML... can I sync to a network server | 00:57 |
| genewitch1 | Xisdibik: cmd prompt | 00:57 |
| genewitch1 | "ver" | 00:57 |
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| genewitch1 | ver >> winver.txt technically. cause i'm too lazy to use menus in cmd prompt mode | 00:57 |
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| Xisdibik | Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600] | 00:58 |
| Xisdibik | same as me | 00:58 |
| Xisdibik | ;) | 00:58 |
| Xisdibik | only difference is mine is | 00:58 |
| Xisdibik | Windows 7 Enterprise | 00:58 |
| genewitch1 | that's the vlk one? | 00:59 |
| genewitch1 | vlm, whatever | 00:59 |
| genewitch1 | this is ultimate, not that there's any difference between our versions | 00:59 |
| javispedro | Xisdibik: windows 8 was already released to msdnaa for example. | 01:00 |
| javispedro | er... 7. | 01:00 |
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| crashanddie_ | clipless pedals = win | 01:01 |
| Xisdibik | yea theres no difference | 01:01 |
| Xisdibik | except | 01:01 |
| Xisdibik | on your start menu, you have a "games" menu standard, in enterprise, its not there but can be added | 01:01 |
| mgedmin900 | whoa | 01:01 |
| mgedmin900 | apt-get install segfaulted | 01:02 |
| genewitch1 | that's no good | 01:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mgedmin900: What abuse are you subjecting that poor N900 to? | 01:02 |
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| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: btw, got the vid working, looks cool | 01:03 |
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| genewitch1 | if you guys ever get bored run this as root mplayer -demuxer rawvideo -rawvideo w=800:h=480:fps=15:format=rgb32 -vc decimate,hqdn3d /dev/mmcblk0 | 01:04 |
| mgedmin | ~ $ sudo apt-get install maemo-pc-connectivity | 01:04 |
| genewitch1 | (or 1) | 01:04 |
| mgedmin | Can not write log, openpty() failed (/dev/pts not mounted?) | 01:04 |
| mgedmin | and segfault | 01:04 |
| genewitch1 | mgedmin900: that's not a official package is it? | 01:04 |
| genewitch1 | an* | 01:04 |
| mgedmin | extras | 01:04 |
| genewitch1 | ah | 01:04 |
| genewitch1 | i have it on mine but never use it | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | -devel, though, right? ;) | 01:05 |
| mgedmin | this happens right after the | 01:05 |
| mgedmin | Do you want to continue [Y/n]? | 01:05 |
| mgedmin | seems early for the pkg itself | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | This is Nokia. :P | 01:05 |
| genewitch1 | you have enough free space on the log dir? | 01:05 |
| crashanddie_ | mgedmin, reboot | 01:05 |
| mgedmin | it's not even unpacked yet | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, OK, go back to my early mental image. | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Now center up the "maemo" part of http://maemo.org. | 01:06 |
| mgedmin | smallest that I have is 168kb in /tmp | 01:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | As the "schnict" sound plays that slides to the left and the .org pops in. | 01:06 |
| mgedmin | sorry not tmp, /var/run | 01:06 |
| genewitch1 | mgedmin is that different than the /var partition? | 01:06 |
| kynky | df -h | 01:06 |
| mgedmin | tmpfs | 01:07 |
| genewitch1 | /var is where the logs are kept | 01:07 |
| mgedmin | 13 megs free on roor | 01:07 |
| mgedmin | *root | 01:07 |
| crashanddie_ | mgedmin, wanna hear my prognosis? | 01:07 |
| crashanddie_ | mgedmin, broken chroot, reflash | 01:07 |
| mgedmin | tell me, doctor | 01:07 |
| genewitch1 | haha | 01:07 |
| mgedmin | what chroot? | 01:07 |
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| crashanddie_ | dunno | 01:07 |
| genewitch1 | mgedmin out of curiosity, what country/locale are you in? | 01:07 |
| mgedmin | currently? sweden | 01:08 |
| mgedmin | normally, lithuania | 01:08 |
| genewitch1 | mgedmin i was hoping you'd say US so i can go get an n900 | 01:08 |
| genewitch1 | but noooooo | 01:08 |
| RST38h | pry it from his cold dead hands? | 01:08 |
| mgedmin | warm still-quivering hands more likely | 01:09 |
| genewitch1 | no, i don't know when/if they're getting released in the states | 01:09 |
| mgedmin | nobody would wait for the body to get cold | 01:09 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: depends on the elimination method | 01:09 |
| genewitch1 | from what i heard they're very expensive and people already balked at the measly $400 for the iphone | 01:09 |
| * javispedro watches how macheads are born. | 01:09 | |
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| mgedmin | amazon said they were expecting october 26th or something | 01:09 |
| mgedmin | I also heard rumours that that was later postponed | 01:09 |
| mgedmin | so, assume early november or something | 01:09 |
| genewitch1 | who's the provider for cell service? | 01:09 |
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| genewitch1 | or is it "whoever you want"? | 01:10 |
| mgedmin | yep | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Any GSM carrier | 01:10 |
| mgedmin | put a sim card in, be happy | 01:10 |
| RST38h | javis: they are potty-trained to only do it into a designer toilet bowl? | 01:10 |
| mgedmin | or use wifi | 01:10 |
| genewitch1 | that's pretty cooooool | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Though they only have frequencies for T-Mobile 3G. :\ | 01:10 |
| genewitch1 | boff that i have an n800 for wardriving | 01:10 |
| mgedmin | shame you can't do bluetooth tethering to your other phone | 01:10 |
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| mgedmin | like you could with a n8x0 | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, isn't it covered in the wiki? | 01:10 |
| mgedmin | is it? | 01:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, the BlueZ guy did a presentation on adding unsupported profiles. | 01:10 |
| RST38h | General: He wants client, not server | 01:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, yes, I know. | 01:11 |
| mgedmin | I just discovered http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/index.html which allows everything, it seems | 01:11 |
| RST38h | i.e. he wants the tablet use his 3g phone not vice versa | 01:11 |
| mgedmin | apt-get installing that one got me my apt segfault :( | 01:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, yes, I know. | 01:11 |
| mgedmin | actually, both :) | 01:11 |
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| mgedmin | well, I want my laptop use my n900 as a network gateway | 01:11 |
| mgedmin | which I currently have with a hacky usbnet + ssh proxy config | 01:12 |
| genewitch1 | oh it says $650 in the US | 01:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | In practice it's more like $580. | 01:12 |
| genewitch1 | and it also says it's on sale 27 sept... | 01:12 |
| * RST38h sighs and goes to bed. Gonna catch someone from Nokia tomorrow and ask them how they block the application waiting for a DBus message | 01:12 | |
| mgedmin | so it does | 01:12 |
| genewitch1 | GeneralAntilles: i had heard closer to $750 | 01:12 |
| genewitch1 | but that was a couple of months ago | 01:12 |
| RST38h | genewitch: the true number is $666 | 01:12 |
| mgedmin | you lucky bastards, it's going to be 600 EUR + VAT on this side of the pond | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | genewitch1, that was based on the price in Euros. | 01:12 |
| RST38h | genewitch: And the Satan speaks Finnish, by the way | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | The European price dropped and European prices never compare directly to US prices. | 01:13 |
| genewitch1 | video out? | 01:13 |
| genewitch1 | woooooooooo | 01:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Composite. | 01:13 |
| Shapeshifter | it's 487 euros incl. taxes here | 01:13 |
| MoaBird | Either way, I'd still say that price is a bit much. $450 is the ceiling for me. (I have no idea why, however) | 01:13 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: And they get arrow keys, don't they? | 01:13 |
| genewitch1 | 650 for a cellphone is unheard of in the USA though | 01:13 |
| proberts_ | mgedmin: Can't you buy one from the US? | 01:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | proberts_, no warranty support, then. | 01:13 |
| mgedmin | didn't the iphone cost around 700 usd unlocked? | 01:13 |
| RST38h | genewitch: Please check prices on some latest HTC phones in the US | 01:13 |
| mgedmin | except that nobody sold them unlocked initially | 01:14 |
| RST38h | genewitch: you only need to type www.froogle.com into the browser | 01:14 |
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| RST38h | night. | 01:14 |
| genewitch1 | RST38h: night | 01:14 |
| genewitch1 | HTC phones are kinda crappy though | 01:15 |
| proberts_ | MoaBird: If street price is $600, you might be able to pick an N900 up from a T-Mobile authorized reseller for $400-$450 with a contract | 01:15 |
| genewitch1 | the screens are really tiny and they're very fragile. my roommate has one, he's had to get it replaced twice | 01:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | MoaBird, there's really no such thing as an "authorized reseller" here. | 01:16 |
| lardman | night RST38h | 01:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | At least not one offering anything much different from the carrier subsidies. | 01:16 |
| lardman | anyone have an example of the libs required to compile with oss-abook? | 01:16 |
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| lardman | s/oss/osso | 01:16 |
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| proberts_ | Here T-Mobile is the only company that lets resellers apply contract subsidies to any phone they sell (as long as it's an authorized reseller) | 01:17 |
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| genewitch1 | expected arrival date november 5th, 2009, $579 | 01:18 |
| genewitch1 | oh sorry, $579.99 | 01:18 |
| MoaBird | proberts_: I loathe contracts. What's more, I'm not sure I even want a phone. That said, if there's nothing else on the market after a while, I may bite the bullet anyhow. Mostly, I don't want a closed system, which seems to be all the rage these days. | 01:18 |
| genewitch1 | it's saying t-mobile, which isn't a reliable carrier where i am. i'd rather have verizon. | 01:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Verizon is CDMA | 01:19 |
| genewitch1 | mgedmin does the n900 still have the internet call feature with SIP? | 01:19 |
| proberts_ | MoaBird: If you want something cheaper with an open OS, and a really nice phone, you could try a Motorola A1200 | 01:19 |
| genewitch1 | If not, i may as well not bother, i'd only use SIP anyhow | 01:19 |
| genewitch1 | it's all i use now, at least | 01:20 |
| MoaBird | proberts_: Oh? What's that and what does it run? | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | gene: you can only have t-mobile if you want 3g | 01:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | genewitch1, yes. | 01:20 |
| proberts_ | Verizon would make Nokia stick their BREW UI on top of Maemo. | 01:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | genewitch1, you can select SIP or Cellular from the dialer. | 01:20 |
| proberts_ | MoaBird: It's a really cool (though a bit old) Motorola touch-screen phone that runs Linux (EZX). | 01:20 |
| genewitch1 | GeneralAntilles: wow, that is awesome. and it would go through the cellular internet then? | 01:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or WiFi, yeah. | 01:21 |
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| genewitch1 | SpeedEvil: oh, GSM is slow, i take it? | 01:21 |
| genewitch1 | i thought the n900 was supposed to be 4G :-( | 01:21 |
| SpeedEvil | genewitch1: yes - ~8Kbytes/s | 01:22 |
| genewitch1 | that's nonsense. i guess i gotta see if t-mobile is any better these days. | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | genewitch1: It has lots of radio bands - just only one 3G one that works in the US - and that's allocated to t-mobile | 01:22 |
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| ShadowJK | gsm edge is 26000 bytes/sec | 01:22 |
| MoaBird | proberts_: Hmmmm, I've never really heard of it. I'll give it a look and see if it's worth my while, thanks. :) | 01:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | genewitch1, T-Mobile is apparently doing massive insane 3G rollouts. | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - forgot about edge | 01:22 |
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| genewitch1 | i wonder if there's a refresh "n910" planned for more USA based things | 01:22 |
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| ShadowJK | or atleast 26000 bytes/s is what I get | 01:23 |
| genewitch1 | 26 megabit, you mean? | 01:23 |
| proberts_ | MoaBird: Instructions for getting a toolchain is on the libxze2.sourceforge.net wiki ... you can also get QT headers and stuff to build apps (or grab my low-level hacked up API from the wiki page) | 01:23 |
| genewitch1 | i thought edge was slowsauce | 01:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's OK. | 01:23 |
| genewitch1 | 150kbps? | 01:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not great, but reasonable for IM and light browsing. | 01:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | I get about 10-15KB/sec | 01:24 |
| genewitch1 | that's not too bad | 01:24 |
| MoaBird | genewitch1: What exactly would the n910 offer over the n900? | 01:24 |
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| lardman | does osso-addressbook-1.0.pc exist for any of you chaps? | 01:24 |
| genewitch1 | MoaBird: more US carriers | 01:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | The exact n900+ isn't released as to what details it will have | 01:24 |
| solarion | there's an n910 already? | 01:24 |
| proberts_ | MoaBird: They're pretty cheap now as well... there were 3 other phones based on EZX 2 IIRC - ROKR E2, A910, and (E6?) | 01:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Other than capacitive screen, and some sort of DRM options. | 01:25 |
| MoaBird | genewitch1: So it's basically just a rebranding or would it offer additional features? | 01:25 |
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| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: and Qt? | 01:25 |
| MoaBird | proberts_: I'll give it a look, thanks. Funny that I've never come across it before. | 01:25 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: that too | 01:25 |
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| genewitch1 | MoaBird: it doesn't exist. the features i would want to see is "can be used on verizon's network with 3g+ speeds" | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | MoaBird, it doesn't exist. | 01:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | MoaBird, the only announced model is the N900. | 01:26 |
| proberts_ | MoaBird: http://wiki.openezx.org/Main_Page | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | MoaBird, anything about an N900+ is essentially pure speculation at this point. | 01:26 |
| SpeedEvil | And that's not even shipping yet. | 01:26 |
| luke-jr | are N900s all really locked to a single carrier | 01:27 |
| luke-jr | ? | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | The _only_ thing we know for sure is that Maemo 6 will support OMAP3, WVGA, and capacitive. | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, um? | 01:27 |
| kirma | it's just my opinion, but I sort of doubt if Nokia is really interested in pushing N900 or any variant of it so aggressively in US. the operators don't like it, and they have powerful ways to limit invention on the market. | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, no? | 01:27 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, wtf? | 01:27 |
| MoaBird | genewitch1: Good luck. If it comes to expanding features, I think it''ll only be done by bypassing existing networks, likely via wireless or someting similar. | 01:27 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, no. | 01:27 |
| MoaBird | something* | 01:27 |
| SpeedEvil | nokia.co.uk - Tentative delivery date: November 2009. | 01:27 |
| genewitch1 | MoaBird: they tried that with the n810 with the clearwire stuff in it, but you can't get that anywhere useful in the US | 01:27 |
| crashanddie_ | lardman, me likey pluthon very much so | 01:27 |
| lbt_ | hmm - looks like I can't syncML then | 01:27 |
| genewitch1 | like, boston i think is the prime place to get it | 01:28 |
| lardman | crashanddie_: :) | 01:28 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: ShadowJK: then why is genewitch1 talking like it won't work on Verizon? | 01:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, um, because Verizon is CDMA? | 01:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | and CDMA devices don't take SIM cards. | 01:29 |
| kirma | it should be no secret to anyone with a bit of brains that nokia has future devices in relatively mature phases of design cycle already. but that's just because design cycles are *long* | 01:29 |
| ShadowJK | and N900 doesn't do CDMA either :) | 01:29 |
| luke-jr | they are? I thought only Sprint was CDMA. | 01:29 |
| luke-jr | nevermind | 01:29 |
| MoaBird | genewitch1: Sadly. I wish the US would be a bit more like the EU when it come to carrier regulation, but that's a pipe dream in the short run. :( | 01:29 |
| kirma | CDMA is a dying breed. at least I hope so. | 01:29 |
| solarion | Sprint is CDMA, yes. | 01:29 |
| solarion | kirma: iirc, 3G is CDMA | 01:29 |
| kirma | 3G is WCDMA | 01:30 |
| * solarion has a sprint phone, but only until he can afford something better | 01:30 | |
| solarion | eh, that's only one letter different. :) | 01:30 |
| solarion | 25% is a solid C (80% is a B!) | 01:30 |
| GAN900 | One letter is a lot. | 01:30 |
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| * solarion heads out | 01:31 | |
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| * GAN900 needs to put more books on here. | 01:31 | |
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| kirma | strictly speaking, CDMA is just a channel access method that doesn't specify any specific cellular technology, although many people think so. but anyway, holding up CDMA networks becomes more and more pointless when rest of the world invests on using and developing 3GPP technologies. | 01:32 |
| traut | ha! it works :) no segmentation fault anymore | 01:32 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN900: www.baen.com/library/ ? | 01:32 |
| lardman | ~praise no segfaults | 01:32 |
| * javispedro thinks his NIT's blue led hasn't flashed for too much. | 01:32 | |
| infobot | All hail no segfaults! | 01:32 |
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| * lardman is jealous | 01:32 | |
| javispedro | either modest crashed or slow night. | 01:32 |
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| crashanddie_ | lardman, do you use it? | 01:33 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, yeah, probably will. Been through most of their good stuff, though. | 01:33 |
| lardman | crashanddie_: no | 01:33 |
| JackBeSlow | Hey everyone, I am a longtime user of the n770 and have been planning on upgrading for a bit now. The n900 seems perfect but with maemo 6 coming soon I am worried that it will be left behind and not have all the necessary (read: cool) apps ported to it. | 01:34 |
| crashanddie_ | lardman, what do you use then? | 01:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | GAN900: ah. They have actual pay-for stuff to of course :) | 01:34 |
| crashanddie_ | JackBeSlow, if you were a long time user you'd know it's "770", not "n770" | 01:34 |
| mgedmin_ | anybody use maemo-pc-connectivity? | 01:34 |
| JackBeSlow | bah, yeah. I always call it the n770 by mistake. | 01:34 |
| crashanddie_ | JackBeSlow, the n900 is a phone, hence, a lot more potential in the long run for Nokia to make money (Ovi, etc) | 01:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, yeah, been through most of that, too. ;) | 01:34 |
| crashanddie_ | JackBeSlow, I doubt the n900 will be ditched ASAP | 01:34 |
| lardman | crashanddie_: C | 01:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, define "soon". | 01:35 |
| crashanddie_ | lardman, you don't use python? | 01:35 |
| lardman | I've dabbled | 01:35 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, within two decades :P | 01:35 |
| sp3000 | timeless: oh, my server did reboot, it just ...claims to have gone 4min41s from syslog exit to start :D | 01:35 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, if Nokia survives, that is | 01:35 |
| kirma | jackbeslow: only confirmed difference is that maemo 6 is going to support multitouch, and probably there are going to be devices that have multitouch. it seems that otherwise technologies are so close to each other that it's just a matter of nokia's level of interest if it brings maemo 6 to N900. but anyway, it's not known in either way. | 01:35 |
| SpeedEvil | The n1000 will be the salvation of nokia. | 01:35 |
| crashanddie_ | Jaffa, do you use pluthon? | 01:35 |
| JackBeSlow | Well I mean I have gotten pretty good life from my 770, and I still use it daily. I would hope that the n900 remains usable for as long. | 01:35 |
| SpeedEvil | It has a mimetic alloy body, and a covering that makes it indistinguishable from other mobile phones. | 01:36 |
| JackBeSlow | For one thing the HE's were a godsend. | 01:36 |
| crashanddie_ | JackBeSlow, any device remains usable as long as you're willing to put up with it | 01:36 |
| genewitch1 | i just talked to tmobile on the phone | 01:36 |
| mgedmin_ | genewitch1: n900 has SIP supported on the same level as Skype or GSM voice calls; I've never tried it | 01:36 |
| crashanddie_ | genewitch1, is that a pleonasm? | 01:36 |
| crashanddie_ | skype is a bit dodgy on the n900 | 01:36 |
| crashanddie_ | sound quality is shit | 01:36 |
| genewitch1 | they said they will never carry the n900, but do support it with sim for $55 a month plus tax | 01:36 |
| crashanddie_ | well, no, sound quality, but same problem as with phone: mic cutoff is way too flimsy | 01:36 |
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| genewitch1 | i don't want skype, i have actual SIP | 01:36 |
| JackBeSlow | That is unfortunate but I would expect that to clear up fairly quickly being that it is a prominent feature. | 01:37 |
| kirma | jackbeslow: except the support (not necessarily mandatory on devices, I'd guess?), the basic specifications of maemo 6 hardware platforms match what N900 has one to one. | 01:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, we also have Mer these days. | 01:37 |
| JackBeSlow | Any word on making video calls? Via skype or anything else? | 01:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~mer | 01:37 |
| infobot | mer is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer | 01:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which is kind of like an HE that doesn't suck. | 01:37 |
| JackBeSlow | I don't really know much about Mer. | 01:37 |
| crashanddie_ | JackBeSlow, hence the links | 01:37 |
| crashanddie_ | JackBeSlow, none yet | 01:37 |
| JackBeSlow | Actually I don't know anything. Following links now | 01:37 |
| genewitch1 | it's like maemo without the ease of use | 01:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, either way, the N900 is in a whole different universe compared to the N900 user-experience wise. | 01:38 |
| JackBeSlow | hah, I love the conflicting opinions. | 01:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | genewitch1, don't troll, please. | 01:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, it's Maemo rebased on a sane platform. | 01:38 |
| genewitch1 | GeneralAntilles: i wasn't trying to. sorry | 01:38 |
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| JackBeSlow | What do you mean by a "sane platform" | 01:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | genewitch1, if we're talking about Maemo 6, we're talking about the 10-18 months timeframe. | 01:38 |
| lardman | well f me, that actually worked, will wonders never cease | 01:38 |
| crashanddie_ | JackBeSlow, we asked the skype representative at the summit, he said "Video calls are not supported, and there is no word with regards to its development. It's up to Nokia" | 01:38 |
| javispedro | yeaaaaaaaah. | 01:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | genewitch1, which is plenty of time for Mer to have the day-to-day usability stuff in shape. | 01:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, Ubuntu, basically. | 01:39 |
| JackBeSlow | That is sorta lame considering the fact that it has a front facing camera | 01:39 |
| javispedro | not Skype employees cursing Linux for their video APIs at all. | 01:39 |
| JackBeSlow | ah | 01:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, as opposed to Maemo's bastardization of Debian. | 01:39 |
| crashanddie_ | Unknown package 'pyside-core' | 01:39 |
| crashanddie_ | weird | 01:39 |
| crashanddie_ | anyone know where I can fetch that? | 01:39 |
| genewitch1 | crashanddie_: it wouldn't be hard to hack together a solution specifically for nokia n8-900 users | 01:39 |
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| kirma | jackbeslow: I think a major decision factor for nokia would be if they want all the usability to exist in both traditional touchscreen and multitouch varieties, or if they're moving strongly to multitouch requirement. if they do, N900 will turn out to be a bit disappointing transitional model. well, I'm getting it anyway... | 01:40 |
| JackBeSlow | How is mer as far as compatability with chinook and below apps? | 01:40 |
| crashanddie_ | genewitch1, sorry? | 01:40 |
| JackBeSlow | or is it totally different. | 01:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, they'd need to be recompiled. | 01:40 |
| genewitch1 | crashanddie_: well it'd be easier on the n900 cause it's fast enough to do compression, video, and voice | 01:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, but the goal is to stay reasonably compatible with more recent stuff. | 01:40 |
| crashanddie_ | genewitch1, wtf are you talking about? | 01:40 |
| crashanddie_ | genewitch1, you don't have an n900, right? | 01:41 |
| JackBeSlow | Are there any handy links to Mer repos so I can see what hsa been recompiled so far? | 01:41 |
| crashanddie_ | because if you did, you'd know Skype in Maemo 5 doesn't exist as a standalone application. It's completely integrated in the UI, completely hidden | 01:41 |
| genewitch1 | right, i have an n800 | 01:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, anyway, my personal recommendation for the N900 is Buy! Buy! Buy! ;) | 01:41 |
| genewitch1 | crashanddie_: i wasn't talking about skype i was talking about a video call in general | 01:41 |
| crashanddie_ | the only thing you see is the skype icon when you've added the skype details to a contact | 01:41 |
| JackBeSlow | Oh I think I will, I just am praying that I won't be regretting it a year from now. | 01:41 |
| crashanddie_ | genewitch1, if it is "not that hard", with all the ego-driven, talented coders we have hanging around and basically doing nothing, do you really think we still wouldn't have a decent app? | 01:42 |
| JackBeSlow | Will anything like Mer, or Mer be coming to the n900? | 01:42 |
| crashanddie_ | oh, and for the record, I'm not ego-driven, I'm ego-managed | 01:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, Mer is already on the N900. ;) | 01:43 |
| JackBeSlow | hah, figures :) | 01:43 |
| JackBeSlow | Ok, a lot less worried then. | 01:43 |
| JackBeSlow | Don't want it to be like the Zaurus where everyone moved on to Angstrom and I got left behind with my older device. | 01:44 |
| mgedmin_ | so far, every new maemo device was so much better than the previous one, that buying it was a no-brainer to me | 01:44 |
| mgedmin_ | I wonder what I'll do when I run out of money... | 01:44 |
| JackBeSlow | Some of us are not so financially blessed. | 01:44 |
| mgedmin_ | ten years of careful hoarding... | 01:45 |
| JackBeSlow | I am a student working his way through college. | 01:45 |
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| mgedmin_ | free university education rules | 01:45 |
| JackBeSlow | But a little splurging every once in a while feels good. | 01:45 |
| JackBeSlow | mgedmin_: where are you from? | 01:46 |
| * mgedmin_ doesn't understand: he built a proxytunnel deb this morning, and it's still *not* available in extras-devel | 01:46 | |
| mgedmin_ | Lithuania | 01:46 |
| JackBeSlow | Now that is a country I know absolutely nothing about. lol | 01:46 |
| mgedmin_ | south of Finland, east of Denmark, 10 years behind each of those developmentally | 01:46 |
| JackBeSlow | hah, nice. | 01:47 |
| mgedmin_ | (being shackled by the soviets for 50 years didn't exactly help) | 01:47 |
| JackBeSlow | So has most of the development from the people in this channel moved from the normal maemo releases to Mer? | 01:48 |
| JackBeSlow | Because there are a thousand apps I want ported to the n900 lol. And I don't have the skill to port most of them. | 01:48 |
| crashanddie_ | anyone mind helping me get pluthon working? | 01:48 |
| mgedmin_ | JackBeSlow: any particular apps? | 01:49 |
| mgedmin_ | I'm gonna need FuelPad in a couple of weeks | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | This is probably a FAQ. What is the likelyhood of being able to run Android stuff? | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | At some point in the future | 01:49 |
| kirma | mgedmin_: I'm sort of convinced that Maemo-based devices are going to become so much more prevalent on the nokia product catalog that they're not going to be each worth buying. it's an interesting question if next after N900 is going to be one, but at least I'm expecting the jump not to be very big in the same sense of processing power... | 01:50 |
| mgedmin_ | SpeedEvil: somebody *has* managed to run Android on N810 at some point in the past, IIRC | 01:50 |
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| mgedmin_ | don't know how practical such an arrangement will ever be | 01:50 |
| mgedmin_ | so I'd say 50%: either it will happen or not | 01:50 |
| mgedmin_ | kirma: the nokia marketing folks are very consistent: they had a 5-step plan, and n900 is step 4 of 5 | 01:50 |
| mgedmin_ | they say it's not ready for the mass market yet | 01:51 |
| kirma | SpeedEvil: wasn't Android ported by some freaks to earlier tablets already? :) | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: I was more meaning in a user friendly - 'appears as additional apps' way. | 01:51 |
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| JackBeSlow | Rapier for one, gutenreader (might have the name wrong) canolla was amazing. FBReader and MaemoPad+ are daily use items for me. | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | you install the 'android' app - and voila | 01:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | FBReader is a Fremantle Star application. | 01:52 |
| kirma | mgedmin_: but does that refer more to the software side that doesn't have real factors preventing upgrades, or is it hardware specific idea? only difference in maemo 6 hardware roadmap was that obviously multitouch is coming at least at some extent. | 01:52 |
| mgedmin_ | GeneralAntilles: what does that mean? | 01:53 |
| JackBeSlow | GeneralAntilles: meaning? | 01:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Stars | 01:53 |
| mgedmin_ | kirma: from what we heard the maemo 6 device will have essentially the same hw (plus multitouch-capable touchscreen), so it's mostly software left | 01:53 |
| mgedmin_ | there are rough edges on the n900 | 01:53 |
| mgedmin_ | e.g. some apps haven't been properly maemo-5-ized yet (notes, pdf reader) | 01:54 |
| kirma | SpeedEvil: if I understood correctly, there are ports of the virtual machine to more general-purpose linux environments, so it shouldn't be impossible. integration is something completely different, of course... | 01:54 |
| JackBeSlow | :( | 01:54 |
| JackBeSlow | As long as they come, I don't mind waiting. I just hope they aren't abandoned. | 01:54 |
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| JackBeSlow | Ooh, Mauku is ported :) | 01:54 |
| kirma | mgedmin_: my thoughts too. but processes in large organizations work in interesting ways, and they might find it easier not to support software upgrades for N900 unless it becomes really widely sold. | 01:55 |
| mgedmin_ | remember the OS2008 update for the N800? | 01:55 |
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| mgedmin_ | I never expected it | 01:55 |
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| mgedmin_ | I guess if the hardware allows it, Nokia will try to make new software available for older platforms | 01:56 |
| mgedmin_ | but they won't sacrifice features of a new platform to backwards-compatibility | 01:56 |
| * javispedro notes Palm Pre was finally released here | 01:56 | |
| crashanddie_ | anyone know where I can get PyQt or PySide from? | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - I would expect much interest in Mer - polishing it and adding missing UI elements to make it more maemo5-like on the n900 post launch | 01:56 |
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| mgedmin_ | GeneralAntilles: I've read that page, but what exactly does "willing to get help from Nokia" mean? | 01:57 |
| mgedmin_ | will experienced UI developers help port FBReader's interface to match the rest of fremantle (i.e. kinetic scrolling etc.)? | 01:57 |
| mgedmin_ | or is that just access to pre-release devices for porting & testing etc.? | 01:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not sure the extent of announced support. | 01:58 |
| timeless_mbp | hello world | 01:58 |
| mgedmin_ | the tmo thread about fbreader was not encouraging -- upstream developer seemed unwilling to make maemo-specific changes | 01:58 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: i've wrriten most of my package :) | 01:58 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: i need another one of your cpa things | 01:58 |
| SpeedEvil | fork! | 01:58 |
| timeless_mbp | unless there's a better way to do it | 01:58 |
| JackBeSlow | Maemo Mapper and Numpty Physics are listed under release quality. That makes me happy. So is Maemopad+ :) | 01:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin_, but FBReader's portability makes it difficult to do stuff like that. | 01:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. ;) | 01:59 |
| mgedmin_ | yeah | 01:59 |
| javispedro | as usual. | 01:59 |
| javispedro | well, see you | 01:59 |
| mgedmin_ | numpty? the version available in extras-devel right now is totally unusable | 01:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, picture an N900 keyboard schnict as the .org comes in here: http://legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup-schnict.mov | 02:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | I also need to redo the fade in blending. | 02:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin_, I think some of those status updates are old. | 02:00 |
| JackBeSlow | Well that is a shame as it is listed under release quality on that page GeneralAntilles linked. | 02:00 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: cool. | 02:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, like I said, some of the status updates aren't up-to-date. | 02:00 |
| JackBeSlow | heh | 02:00 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: i like | 02:00 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: but i still want it in black :) | 02:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | JackBeSlow, but what you should be taking away from it is that the developers there have indicated their intentions to bring high-quality ports to Fremantle. ;) | 02:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, easy enegouh. | 02:01 |
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| timeless_mbp | :) | 02:01 |
| JackBeSlow | :) | 02:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/enegouh/enough/ | 02:01 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: timeless_mbp, easy enough. | 02:01 |
| crashanddie_ | Jaffa, you got some examples in order to access the accelerometer using python? | 02:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, Altitude code should be available from Extras. | 02:02 |
| JackBeSlow | Well thanks for all the info. I got to get running. | 02:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup-schnict-black.mov | 02:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp ^ | 02:03 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 02:03 | |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: the about ubuntu thing it the mer i'm using spells Licence using en-GB | 02:04 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: =) | 02:04 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, can't seem to find it | 02:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, BAM! http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/source/a/attitude/ | 02:05 |
| crashanddie_ | that's attitude | 02:05 |
| crashanddie_ | not altitude :P | 02:05 |
| GAN900 | Sorry | 02:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, get me my N900 keyboard sound recording and I'll be more accurate next time. *g* | 02:09 |
| crashanddie_ | how about you just stop eating that fatty shit all the time and wash your hands | 02:10 |
| crashanddie_ | you wouldn't slip all over the keyboard all the time | 02:10 |
| * GeneralAntilles cries. | 02:11 | |
| GeneralAntilles | But it's like it says on the bag, you can't just eat one. :( | 02:12 |
| wazd | when you start typing in the homescreen - contact search appear | 02:12 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 02:12 | |
| wazd | why not universal search? | 02:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, Tracker was not in shape enough for it, apparently. | 02:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, future feature. | 02:13 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: ah, good to hear | 02:13 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: it would be cool to just type anything and tell the device what it is | 02:13 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: web address, calculation or something | 02:14 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 02:14 | |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, yeah, Quicksilver needs to be ported. :P | 02:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: the osx app? | 02:15 |
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| wazd | just for the record, I had this idea before Pre appeared :P | 02:15 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 02:15 | |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, yes. | 02:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, hopefully you're using it. :P | 02:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i am | 02:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't have many choices | 02:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is Butler still being updated? | 02:15 |
| timeless_mbp | spotlight doesn't work properly w/ zfs | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Man, how useless can a profiles control panel get. . . . | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why can't I turn of vibra per-notification. . . . | 02:18 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 02:19 | |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: we have a screen saver that runs on most windows computers at nokia | 02:19 |
| timeless_mbp | it's really amusing, it's basically a list of all the features the n900 doesn't support | 02:19 |
| timeless_mbp | (they're all the nokia innovations) | 02:20 |
| wazd | coffee machine? | 02:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 02:20 |
| ShadowJK | timeless, snake? | 02:21 |
| timeless_mbp | ok... so, i need someone to walk me through things | 02:21 |
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| crashanddie_ | anyway, bedtime for me | 02:22 |
| crashanddie_ | take care people | 02:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Later | 02:22 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, thanks for the link | 02:22 |
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| dmj7261 | How difficult would it be to make an app that recorded sound and took still photos at regular intervals? | 02:23 |
| dmj7261 | (not 480p video, but 5MP stills) | 02:24 |
| timeless_mbp | not very | 02:24 |
| timeless_mbp | you basically talk to gstreamer | 02:24 |
| dmj7261 | It occurred to me that such an app would be excellent for making video lectures. | 02:25 |
| crashanddie_ | blurry pics every 5s? | 02:25 |
| dmj7261 | ...why would they be blurry? | 02:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | hey | 02:26 |
| timeless_mbp | someone made some mention of support for shell scripts from control panel | 02:26 |
| timeless_mbp | did that actually happen, or were people here dreaming? | 02:26 |
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| dmj7261 | crashanddie: Is there any reason they would be blurry? | 02:27 |
| dmj7261 | I would think stills would be better than video for recording lectures, since it has no zoom and you want to see what's being written. | 02:28 |
| dmj7261 | (providing they're in focus) | 02:28 |
| lcuk | hence the blurry comment | 02:28 |
| dmj7261 | why wouldn't they be in focus? | 02:28 |
| lcuk | better to have human shutterbugs and scrum around the results | 02:28 |
| lcuk | or true multimedia | 02:29 |
| lcuk | people recording bits in format they like | 02:29 |
| lardman | night all | 02:29 |
| lcuk | cos the professor moves across 3 boards | 02:29 |
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| lcuk | gnite simon | 02:29 |
| dmj7261 | ah...and the edges of the board would be out of focus? | 02:30 |
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| lcuk | dmj7261, at the copenhagen meetup, keesj had an app which took stills every now and then from his webcam | 02:30 |
| lcuk | see what the code was and try it | 02:31 |
| lcuk | it works well | 02:31 |
| dmj7261 | I don't have an n900 yet. | 02:31 |
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| dmj7261 | or was it for desktop linux? | 02:31 |
| lcuk | this software problem can be run on laptop | 02:31 |
| lcuk | to prove the concept | 02:31 |
| lcuk | let you know its what you think it is | 02:32 |
| dmj7261 | where can I find it? | 02:34 |
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| lcuk | dmj7261, lol if i knew i would tell you | 02:35 |
| lcuk | im just trying to dig through google now | 02:35 |
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| dmj7261 | My google search didn't yield anything. | 02:42 |
| lcuk | dmj7261, mine neither, catch keesj next time hes around | 02:43 |
| lcuk | or search for a simple linux timelapse proggy | 02:43 |
| lcuk | which would do same thing ;) | 02:43 |
| dmj7261 | yeah, and maybe add the ability to capture audio syched to the pictures. | 02:44 |
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| dmj7261 | http://www.t0ny.org/page/LinuxTimeLapse | 02:46 |
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| zerojay | Anyone else remember seeing the slide saying that running the n900 at 600mhz would fry it? | 02:54 |
| zerojay | The slide from Summit. | 02:54 |
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| dmj7261 | I heard (via some video somewhere) that smoke was involved. | 02:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | It significantly reduces reliability | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | and will decrease the life | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | there isn't prompt smoke | 02:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | think nvidia video card with the issues, not explosions. | 02:56 |
| SpeedEvil | If it's turned up all the way, it'll fail sometime not too soon. | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, _locking_ it | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | and that's from Igor's presentation. | 02:56 |
| dmj7261 | not even after a few hours at 600mhz in a bag/pocket? | 02:56 |
| timeless_mbp | <just don't do it> | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not a temperature issue anyway. | 02:57 |
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| dmj7261 | or does it do the PC thing where the device shuts down? | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a temperature + power thing as I understnad it | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | temperature is going to make it worse | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | but without getting too hot - it's still got issues | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a voltage issue. | 02:58 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm pretty sure we try to recognize overheating | 02:58 |
| dmj7261 | ah...overvolting | 02:58 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc there's a string for when you overheat | 02:58 |
| timeless_mbp | which isn't to say it's guaranteed to work | 02:58 |
| timeless_mbp | don't cook your n900 in an oven | 02:58 |
| timeless_mbp | and certainly don't cook someone else's (e.g. a nokia loaner) | 02:59 |
| dmj7261 | overvolting is harder than overheating to detect as abnormal | 02:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | The OMAP2 devices had an overheat shutdown mode. | 02:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | But cpufreq should really take care of any overvoltage issues. | 02:59 |
| dmj7261 | I wish I had a nokia loaner. | 02:59 |
| ali1234 | i remember that slide | 03:00 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 03:00 | |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: ping | 03:00 |
| ali1234 | the message was that running it constantly at 600mhz would destroy it | 03:00 |
| SpeedEvil | IC package design is a _hairy_ subject. It's quite possible to create packages that are unreliable under certain conditions - especially when you are under pressure to reduce the size as much as possible. | 03:00 |
| timeless_mbp | "Device too hot and will be shut down. Slide keyboard out to help cooling." | 03:01 |
| timeless_mbp | so yes, we still try to detect when you're trying to kill it | 03:01 |
| * SpeedEvil spots an opportunity. | 03:01 | |
| timeless_mbp | but that doesn't help if you put it in an oven... | 03:01 |
| SpeedEvil | A 3.5mm->vacuum cleaner adaptor | 03:02 |
| dmj7261 | hehe | 03:02 |
| ali1234 | i've heard of people bricking their phones by overclocking them. the hardware isn't exploding, but it just endlessly reboots before they can get to a point where they can undo it | 03:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, ahahaha | 03:04 |
| ali1234 | of course it wasn't a nokia phone | 03:04 |
| ali1234 | n900 seems to run a lot cooler than my previous HTC phone | 03:04 |
| lcuk | thats cos it is a lot cooler | 03:05 |
| dmj7261 | iphone users: Hooray, it's shiny! n900 users: Why didn't Nokia include a portal gun? | 03:05 |
| timeless_mbp | portal gun? | 03:05 |
| lcuk | Aperture Science Handheld Portal Device | 03:05 |
| Flyser_ | dmj7261: exactly! :D | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | dmj7261, I don't think they could get it past the FCC. | 03:05 |
| timeless_mbp | oops | 03:05 |
| lcuk | and dmj7261 how do you know they HAVENT | 03:05 |
| * timeless_mbp crashed um, something | 03:06 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Although: http://n900wallpapers.com/wallpaper/aperture-science---portal-i | 03:06 |
| timeless_mbp | not sure what | 03:06 |
| dmj7261 | that could be the easter egg! | 03:06 |
| timeless_mbp | but something | 03:06 |
| dmj7261 | nice! | 03:06 |
| lcuk | liqbase acts like portal :) | 03:06 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Liked your Earthbound wallpapers? | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, oh, damn! | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | I completely forgot. | 03:06 |
| Flyser_ | maybe it's a hidden feature? like the fm receiver? | 03:06 |
| zerojay | It's in extras-testing. :) | 03:06 |
| lcuk | Flyser_, its a bit more powerful than that | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Installed it, forgot to set the background. | 03:07 |
| dmj7261 | by the way, the vlc port, does it have any gui controls? | 03:07 |
| dmj7261 | or mplayer? | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, got distracted posting this. ;) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32845 | 03:07 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 03:07 | |
| * timeless_mbp forgot to depend on zenity | 03:07 | |
| lcuk | you have to take the case off, remove the battery - slide the flux capacitor out of the way and insert some antimatter into the warp core | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, sa-weeeet! | 03:07 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: I'll change the N900 -> Maemo.. I just want to at least provide another wallpaper with the update so it isn't just one word difference. ;) | 03:07 |
| dmj7261 | It comes with a warp core! | 03:08 |
| lcuk | 2 | 03:08 |
| SpeedEvil | The hidden feature is that yes, it has a FM transmitter. It transmits a 10 megawatt beam of FM gamma-rays. | 03:09 |
| lcuk | you have to first open the keyboard and extend the deflector dish | 03:10 |
| timeless_mbp | nice, maemo-launcher segfaulted | 03:10 |
| lcuk | or it will burn your fingertips | 03:10 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: wobbly windows! | 03:10 |
| dmj7261 | so it comes with a death ray | 03:10 |
| dmj7261 | ...I'm pretty sure it can do wobbly windows via the Ubuntu port. | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, yes, one of his more recent contributions: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32854 | 03:10 |
| zerojay | Yes, the Nokia NDA very sneakily absolves them of any loss of life due to the death ray. :/ | 03:11 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Hahahaha. | 03:11 |
| dmj7261 | correction: cheese slicer/death ray | 03:12 |
| * GeneralAntilles is gonna have rib eye to photograph tonight. | 03:12 | |
| zerojay | ah fuck. | 03:13 |
| zerojay | Doubt anyone would have wanted to see frozen pizza anyways. | 03:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 03:13 |
| dmj7261 | On the umpcportal/jkk videos they were talking about the three device vs two device strategy. | 03:13 |
| dmj7261 | What did they mean by that? | 03:13 |
| SpeedEvil | You could always start a new meme, and photo it as it comes back out. | 03:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | We need a smell sensor to have the N900 remind us when we're around food. | 03:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, we'll leave that to you. :P | 03:14 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: I need a n900 to perform this vital community service. | 03:14 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if this'd qualify for developer discount. | 03:14 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I'll be sure to petition Nokia for you. | 03:14 |
| zerojay | SpeedEvil: LOL. | 03:15 |
| zerojay | MAEMO POOPS! | 03:15 |
| timeless_mbp | ooh shiny | 03:15 |
| * timeless_mbp now has an "English" item in control panel | 03:16 | |
| dmj7261 | You could name it "Ihasamaemopoop" | 03:16 |
| zerojay | N900rocksohardishitmyself. | 03:16 |
| dmj7261 | ...and people will spend years trying to figure out how it's pronounced | 03:16 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 03:16 | |
| zerojay | lol | 03:16 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 03:18 | |
| timeless_mbp | so... | 03:18 |
| timeless_mbp | oh well, i don't care :) | 03:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good choice. | 03:18 |
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| dmj7261 | By the way, I'm pretty sure nobody is going to fill the "application memory" | 03:19 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 03:19 |
| zerojay | hah. | 03:19 |
| zerojay | I did when restoring from backup. | 03:19 |
| * GeneralAntilles was surprised to see it using 156MB yesterday. | 03:19 | |
| dmj7261 | I can count the number of times that's happened to me on my netbook with 1gb ram and no swap | 03:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i did it a while ago | 03:19 |
| timeless_mbp | it broke key applications | 03:19 |
| zerojay | I reflashed. | 03:19 |
| dmj7261 | but that was with ubuntu, firefox, open office, and pidgin. | 03:20 |
| dmj7261 | ...and firefox had about 100 tabs | 03:20 |
| dmj7261 | timeless_mbp: was that the application storage or the "application memory" you filled? | 03:21 |
| zerojay | I'm talking about storage. | 03:21 |
| dmj7261 | ah...I was talking memory | 03:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i filled ubifs | 03:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, UBIFS is easy to fill. | 03:22 |
| dmj7261 | That's the 2 gb partition? | 03:22 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 03:22 |
| timeless_mbp | that's the 256mb one | 03:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | 246MB oneNAND in the PoP | 03:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | er | 03:22 |
| timeless_mbp | or whatever | 03:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | 256 | 03:22 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Does it make sense to replace the wallpapers package now that it's in testing or should I wait for it to get enough votes to make it into Extras first? | 03:22 |
| xnt14 | o.0 just saw the n810 omap2 driver announcement on maemo.org, awesome. :) | 03:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, replace it now, karma's still low. | 03:23 |
| zerojay | k | 03:23 |
| dmj7261 | Wait, what's the 256 used for? | 03:23 |
| timeless_mbp | dmj7261: that's where the os lives | 03:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | dmj7261, bootloader, kernel, rootfs. | 03:23 |
| timeless_mbp | rootfs | 03:23 |
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| dmj7261 | ah...os and apps? | 03:23 |
| timeless_mbp | well, "privileged apps" | 03:23 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: But when I replace the package, it's going to have to be retested even if it makes it into Extras? | 03:23 |
| dmj7261 | how did that get filled? | 03:23 |
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| timeless_mbp | if everyone installs there, things don't work very well :) | 03:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, if you want the updated package in Extras, yes. | 03:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | dmj7261, applications. | 03:24 |
| zerojay | So it's gotta be revoted upon and everything? | 03:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | dmj7261, some of the stuff in Extras-testing and most of the stuff in Extras-devel hasn't been optified. | 03:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, yeah. | 03:24 |
| dmj7261 | I thought the applications partition was a 2gb one? | 03:24 |
| zerojay | lol... my shit's never going into extras then. | 03:24 |
| timeless_mbp | dmj7261: well, um | 03:24 |
| timeless_mbp | /opt and /home live there | 03:24 |
| timeless_mbp | and we *want* apps to install to /opt | 03:24 |
| timeless_mbp | so they can play in that 2gb volume | 03:25 |
| timeless_mbp | but that isn't the default way of the world | 03:25 |
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| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, that's why we need to get everybody who has a device testing. | 03:25 |
| dmj7261 | what has to be done to optify them? | 03:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's actually kind of sad how few of them have. | 03:25 |
| timeless_mbp | there's supposedly a script to do it | 03:25 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Yeah, no one does it. | 03:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think I emailed -developers but didn't get a reply. | 03:25 |
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| zerojay | Just put out a reminder on Twitter. | 03:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | 03:27 | |
| zerojay | I know, but I have a lot of Maemo followers and bloggers and shit like that. | 03:28 |
| zerojay | Meaningless, but maybe someone will listen. | 03:29 |
| dmj7261 | It seems to me that twitter is mostly useful in situations one would rather not be in. | 03:29 |
| zerojay | dmj7261: Like making out with a tranny? | 03:30 |
| dmj7261 | or being beaten by paramilitaries. | 03:30 |
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| dmj7261 | I seem to have killed my Ubuntu Karmic liveusb | 03:33 |
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| * timeless_mbp pokes qwerty12_N810 | 03:33 | |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 03:34 | |
| timeless_mbp | ham does not handle a large number of catalogs very well | 03:34 |
| timeless_mbp | it can take > 30s to load the catalogs pane | 03:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Never has. | 03:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somehow it doesn't feel any faster on OMAP3, either. | 03:35 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 03:35 | |
| timeless_mbp | i think i'm missing a string | 03:36 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders how that ... E WHAT THE *F* | 03:36 | |
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| ali1234 | does maemo openssh-server support pubkey login? | 03:39 |
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| ali1234 | cos i put my keys in /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys but i still get asked for a password for user | 03:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | did you set permissions properly? | 03:43 |
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| ali1234 | i think so: chown user:users and everything is 700 | 03:45 |
| timeless_mbp | including the directory? | 03:45 |
| ali1234 | hmm no, i forgot -R | 03:45 |
| zerojay | Hmm.. maybe Twitter isn't so useless after all. Message is getting retweeted. | 03:46 |
| GAN900 | lol | 03:47 |
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| ali1234 | ok permissions are definitely right now, but still doesn't work | 03:47 |
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| * ali1234 runs virtualbox over ssh -X | 03:50 | |
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| * GAN900 gets ready for steak pictures. | 03:54 | |
| timeless_mbp | anyone here understand ham? | 03:55 |
| * timeless_mbp needs help | 03:55 | |
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| lcuk | GAN900, auto tagging based on food pic content? | 03:59 |
| lcuk | timeless, i understand bacon | 03:59 |
| timeless_mbp | that's helpful | 03:59 |
| lcuk | whats up with appman? | 03:59 |
| timeless_mbp | want to try understanding ham? | 03:59 |
| timeless_mbp | it isn't showing my package | 03:59 |
| lcuk | is it already installed | 03:59 |
| timeless_mbp | i sure hope not | 04:00 |
| lcuk | i have those sorts of panics | 04:00 |
| timeless_mbp | i've never installed it on a device | 04:00 |
| lcuk | is this the first time you have expected it to be there | 04:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | unless you count a Mer box | 04:00 |
| timeless_mbp | once installed in Mer, ham shows it properly in the Installed area | 04:01 |
| lcuk | whats it meant to show | 04:03 |
| lcuk | and is it in the correct category | 04:03 |
| timeless_mbp | duunno | 04:03 |
| timeless_mbp | can you load the Packages file and look? | 04:03 |
| lcuk | whats an app name its meant to do | 04:04 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes lcuk 's other window | 04:04 | |
| lcuk | i know the other window is there | 04:04 |
| lcuk | i added and had same problem | 04:04 |
| lcuk | i wanted to check from console | 04:05 |
| lcuk | but i needed a package name | 04:05 |
| lcuk | :P | 04:05 |
| timeless_mbp | load the url in a web browser | 04:05 |
| timeless_mbp | it only has 4 files or so, one is packages :) | 04:05 |
| timeless_mbp | or rather Packages | 04:05 |
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| lcuk | timeless its in user/system im pretty sure app manager has strange rules - GeneralAntilles do you know if that would be hidden by default | 04:07 |
| lcuk | apt-get lets me get at them as far as i can tell | 04:08 |
| timeless_mbp | so you can see the package if you use apt-cache ? | 04:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories | 04:12 |
| timeless_mbp | "user/system " | 04:12 |
| mfinkle | timeless_mbp: just checking for optifying... can I put stuff in /opt on the n810 too | 04:13 |
| timeless_mbp | um | 04:14 |
| mfinkle | or do I need a separate deb for that | 04:14 |
| timeless_mbp | there's probably a /opt in the n810 | 04:14 |
| mfinkle | I mean, it won't be any better, like on the n900 | 04:14 |
| timeless_mbp | it's probably on the rootfs | 04:14 |
| timeless_mbp | so yeah, it shouldn't specifically break | 04:14 |
| timeless_mbp | it won't benefit | 04:14 |
| mfinkle | ok | 04:14 |
| timeless_mbp | definitely install once to verify :) | 04:14 |
| mfinkle | :) | 04:15 |
| * timeless_mbp is trying that part of this process now | 04:15 | |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: save me ? :( | 04:15 |
| lcuk | timeless, apparantly i can see it in apt-cache but ive never used it before so i dunno | 04:15 |
| lcuk | it appears to show and be usable for me | 04:16 |
| timeless_mbp | show/usable where? | 04:16 |
| lcuk | well - not installable | 04:16 |
| lcuk | but thats a different reason | 04:16 |
| timeless_mbp | do you have extras-devel added/enabled? | 04:17 |
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| lcuk | in apt | 04:17 |
| lcuk | no i removed all repos other than yours | 04:17 |
| timeless_mbp | ah, ok | 04:17 |
| lcuk | so i could ensure i only had yours listed | 04:17 |
| lcuk | so for that reason i couldnt install it (i think) | 04:17 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, i'm not offering the dependency | 04:17 |
| timeless_mbp | it should be in extras-devel iirc | 04:17 |
| * lcuk nods | 04:18 | |
| timeless_mbp | ooh! | 04:18 |
| timeless_mbp | it appeared in package manager! | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mmm . . . steak | 04:19 |
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| lcuk | lol | 04:19 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: note... absolutely no warrantee | 04:19 |
| timeless_mbp | this package has never been installed anywhere :) | 04:19 |
| lcuk | you made your own repo? | 04:19 |
| lcuk | as well btw? | 04:19 |
| Tadthebuilder | lcuk how you doing? | 04:19 |
| timeless_mbp | well, that's just for testing | 04:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i won't keep it up | 04:19 |
| lcuk | i was thinking about that very thing tonight | 04:19 |
| lcuk | hi tad - im good i think. | 04:20 |
| timeless_mbp | i tried building the Packages file by hand | 04:20 |
| lcuk | timeless, the mention of .install files was in part | 04:20 |
| timeless_mbp | i think the fix was to use dpkg-scanpackages | 04:20 |
| lcuk | damn! dpkg is hard on device | 04:20 |
| lcuk | theres me hoping to setup a mini repo, share a mini http server with .install and have fun on the go :) | 04:21 |
| timeless_mbp | dpkg-scanpackages is a run once thing | 04:22 |
| timeless_mbp | so that wouldn't be a big problem | 04:22 |
| lcuk | heh interesting | 04:22 |
| lcuk | the alternative is of course to get the conductor app into extras | 04:22 |
| lcuk | and have the devices simply sharing data | 04:23 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok, something didn't work | 04:24 |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 04:24 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok, so,... anyone here want to help me walk through an idiots guide to making debian packages do work? | 04:24 |
| lcuk | timeless, that person would be jeremiah | 04:24 |
| lcuk | but since hes probably sleeping off his birthday glass of cola | 04:25 |
| lcuk | i wouldnt bet on him being around | 04:25 |
| * timeless_mbp prods jeremiah | 04:25 | |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: maybe you're around? :) | 04:25 |
| Hydroxide | timeless_mbp: hi there ... I'm a debian developer and can try answering your question | 04:25 |
| timeless_mbp | hi | 04:25 |
| lcuk | i on the otherhand need to vanish | 04:25 |
| lcuk | cya later timeless \o | 04:25 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: thanks, you were helpful :) | 04:25 |
| Hydroxide | timeless_mbp: can you summarize the relevant bit of scrollback for me? | 04:26 |
| lcuk | i try to be \o have fun | 04:26 |
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| * Tadthebuilder is nervous | 04:28 | |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: classic-gaming-wallpapers-1.3-1maemo2 sent to autobuilder. Added two new Chrono Trigger wallpapers + N900 -> Maemo 5. | 04:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Cool | 04:34 |
| Tadthebuilder | this is the last time ill be on here in about two weeks... | 04:36 |
| Tadthebuilder | so i wont even know if the n900 gets realeased soon | 04:36 |
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| vladovg | hi | 04:37 |
| zerojay | Why? Where are you going? | 04:37 |
| vladovg | nead help to set up ssh | 04:37 |
| vladovg | some one wit litel time | 04:38 |
| vladovg | :) | 04:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | im getting married on sat | 04:39 |
| zerojay | Oh, right. Congrats. | 04:39 |
| Tadthebuilder | and im going to be setting up for the next couple days | 04:39 |
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| Tadthebuilder | then a honeymoon | 04:39 |
| Tadthebuilder | so yeah | 04:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woo, no more microwaved hot dogs! | 04:39 |
| zerojay | Don't worry about us. :) | 04:39 |
| Tadthebuilder | no more not microwaved hot dogs haha | 04:39 |
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| Tadthebuilder | im a little worried about you guys | 04:39 |
| Tadthebuilder | you might get into trouble without me | 04:39 |
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| Tadthebuilder | jk | 04:40 |
| Tadthebuilder | but i will miss sitting in ehre and reading all of the interesting conversations concerning future software for maemo | 04:41 |
| Tadthebuilder | (and current software) | 04:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | No you wont. ;) | 04:41 |
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| lcuk | Tadthebuilder, congratulations and good luck :) | 04:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | i thought you went to be lcuk? | 04:42 |
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| Tadthebuilder | thanks | 04:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | though | 04:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | Im still praying that you find a job man | 04:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | bed* | 04:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | okay your right i wont think about this place all week :) | 04:42 |
| lcuk | yeah me too :) im speaking with a few companies atm | 04:43 |
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| lcuk | no i went doin other stuff lol | 04:43 |
| Tadthebuilder | ah okay | 04:43 |
| Tadthebuilder | makes sense | 04:43 |
| Tadthebuilder | have a nice summit though/ | 04:43 |
| Tadthebuilder | ? | 04:43 |
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| lcuk | yes :) apart from the minor 5 minutes where the projector failed as i was startin to speak ;) | 04:44 |
| Tadthebuilder | yeah that can be rough | 04:44 |
| Tadthebuilder | never fully rely on technology | 04:44 |
| Tadthebuilder | but thats a little difficult | 04:44 |
| Tadthebuilder | with your at a summit on technology | 04:45 |
| Tadthebuilder | haha | 04:45 |
| Tadthebuilder | thats just what I was taught when being taught public speaking | 04:45 |
| lcuk | im a nervous wreck at the best of times | 04:45 |
| Tadthebuilder | ah makes sense | 04:45 |
| Tadthebuilder | any advice on getting married? | 04:45 |
| Tadthebuilder | haha | 04:45 |
| Tadthebuilder | anyone at all | 04:45 |
| lcuk | but i managed to speak to most of the people who i needed to | 04:45 |
| Tadthebuilder | (or advise on sex...) | 04:45 |
| zerojay | Tadthebuilder: Go get you some. | 04:45 |
| Tadthebuilder | okay well thats good | 04:46 |
| Tadthebuilder | three days | 04:46 |
| vladovg | dont marri | 04:46 |
| vladovg | :) | 04:46 |
| Firebird | well that's odd, my N810 alarm doesn't make any sounds anymore :( | 04:46 |
| cleary | don't get married until after 25 at least (if at all) | 04:46 |
| lcuk | you have only known your fience for three days? | 04:46 |
| zerojay | Tadthebuilder: Eh... really... if you're nervous about the whole first time sex thing... really, don't be. | 04:46 |
| Tadthebuilder | three days till im married | 04:47 |
| Tadthebuilder | you read my mind | 04:47 |
| cleary | Tadthebuilder: you're both virgins? | 04:47 |
| Tadthebuilder | yeah | 04:47 |
| Tadthebuilder | both | 04:47 |
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| vladovg | haha | 04:47 |
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| Tadthebuilder | Im a Christian minister. | 04:47 |
| cleary | first time sex advice... talk about it? | 04:47 |
| vladovg | marrig is not good | 04:47 |
| lcuk | at your wedding, do you act as minister and groom? | 04:48 |
| Tadthebuilder | haha no | 04:48 |
| Tadthebuilder | I wonder if I coudl of though | 04:48 |
| Tadthebuilder | ... | 04:48 |
| zerojay | Tadthebuilder: Take your time.. enjoy... relax... no need to rush anything... and don't be surprised if the first time isn't the most amazing of experiences. Chemistry takes time. | 04:48 |
| lcuk | ahhh, you are the bride! | 04:48 |
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| Tadthebuilder | thats seems to be good advice zerojay | 04:48 |
| Tadthebuilder | im mostly worried about hurting her... | 04:48 |
| cleary | Tadthebuilder: so talk to her about it | 04:49 |
| Tadthebuilder | (this is probalby not the place most people would come for advice on this subject) | 04:49 |
| Tadthebuilder | good point cleary | 04:49 |
| cleary | talking to us ain't gonna change that ;) | 04:49 |
| Tadthebuilder | true | 04:49 |
| lcuk | Tadthebuilder, advice: if your lovely wife screams in pain, you are doing it wrong. | 04:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Communication is king. ;) | 04:49 |
| Tadthebuilder | that is very good advice | 04:49 |
| Tadthebuilder | screams of pain | 04:49 |
| cleary | Tadthebuilder: plenty of foreplay, failing that, plenty of lube | 04:49 |
| zerojay | Tadthebuilder: Shit, I put my condom on backwards the first time AND it was too small. Felt like the condom was choking my dick to death. After two hours, I was like "oooookay, why do so many guys like this shit?" | 04:49 |
| Tadthebuilder | = bad | 04:49 |
| Tadthebuilder | im laughing a bit zero | 04:50 |
| Tadthebuilder | sorry though that would hurt | 04:50 |
| zerojay | You should be. I am. lol | 04:50 |
| lcuk | the google logs are going to start bringing interesting people after tonight | 04:50 |
| Tadthebuilder | wait | 04:50 |
| zerojay | Oh shit. | 04:50 |
| Tadthebuilder | are those searchable? | 04:50 |
| zerojay | Yeah... oops... forgot the room was logged. hahaha. | 04:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 04:50 |
| Hydroxide | :) | 04:51 |
| Tadthebuilder | thats funny | 04:51 |
| zerojay | Good thing Summit was LAST week or else I'm sure I'd hear an earfull about this. lol | 04:51 |
| * lcuk giggles | 04:51 | |
| Tadthebuilder | its quite humurous... | 04:51 |
| Tadthebuilder | its okay, no one knows who I am. I can fade into non existance at any time... | 04:51 |
| zerojay | But hey... even with an experience like that the first time.. it didn't really matter in the end anyways. | 04:52 |
| lcuk | why fade away? nothing wrong with what you asked | 04:52 |
| Tadthebuilder | i wasnt saying I was going to | 04:52 |
| Tadthebuilder | just that I could | 04:52 |
| Tadthebuilder | heck its not like I can ask anyone in a face to face conversation. | 04:52 |
| Tadthebuilder | well I could but that would be really ackward in my mind... | 04:52 |
| lcuk | indeed | 04:53 |
| lcuk | i remember having a 4 hour conversation on irc about which way you wipe on the toilet | 04:53 |
| lcuk | or was it the cb | 04:53 |
| lcuk | either way, mates sat in a pub have never discussed such things | 04:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | it would just be a strange conversation to have over a beer...or a pizza | 04:54 |
| cleary | lcuk: I had that exact discussion for a few hours over beers with one of my mates at his relos place :) | 04:54 |
| cleary | it wasn't awkward | 04:54 |
| cleary | except for the fact that my mate wiped wrong... ;) | 04:54 |
| lcuk | cleary, did you use hand gestures too? | 04:54 |
| cleary | yep | 04:54 |
| lcuk | you sick mofo | 04:55 |
| lcuk | lolol | 04:55 |
| Tadthebuilder | haha | 04:55 |
| Tadthebuilder | any of you ever been to charleston south carolina? | 04:55 |
| * cleary has never been to the states | 04:55 | |
| * lcuk has never been to the south | 04:55 | |
| Tadthebuilder | oh yeah I forgot that most of the people here are European | 04:56 |
| zerojay | Tadthebuilder: I had an online girlfriend that lived a few miles away in Goose Creek. | 04:56 |
| cleary | Tadthebuilder: I'm australian | 04:56 |
| cleary | Australian even | 04:56 |
| Tadthebuilder | or australian | 04:56 |
| zerojay | Tadthebuilder: Never been there though. Lived in Kentucky for a few years. | 04:56 |
| * cleary tries for some national pride | 04:56 | |
| Tadthebuilder | im going there for my honeymoon | 04:56 |
| Tadthebuilder | seems like a nice place | 04:57 |
| Tadthebuilder | off season | 04:57 |
| Tadthebuilder | though | 04:57 |
| zerojay | Tadthebuilder: Where are you from? | 04:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Charleston is pretty nice | 04:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Be sure to visit the beaches. | 04:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not quite Florida for beaches, but nice enough. ;) | 04:59 |
| zerojay | What version of firefox does microb claim to be? | 05:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, see my new startup videos? | 05:01 |
| zerojay | No, I didn't yet. Link me? | 05:01 |
| Macer | ugh. i just got back from the gym and i think i am going to die | 05:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup-schnict.mov http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup-schnict-black.mov | 05:01 |
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| zerojay | .mov? | 05:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm too lazy to reencode and that's all that Cinema 4D outputs. | 05:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's the Quicktime container format. | 05:04 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: I like. Does it replace sound also? | 05:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Should play on device if nothing else. | 05:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 05:04 |
| zerojay | Very nice. Looks so pro. | 05:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want to do the N900 keyboard sound for when the .org pops in. | 05:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Picture that in your brain and it'll be a lot cooler. :D | 05:04 |
| zerojay | makes me think of failblog... DOT ORG | 05:05 |
| zerojay | ;) | 05:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | If somebody doesn't make me a good quality recording of it by this weekend I'll do it myself once I get access to the equipment. . . . | 05:06 |
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| zerojay | Are you just talking about the small click you hear when you press down the physical key? | 05:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, when you pop open the keyboard. | 05:09 |
| zerojay | The chunk? | 05:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 05:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | The "schnict". ;) | 05:09 |
| zerojay | Well, it just so happens I have an obsessive compulsive sound designer that I'm good friends with who is also a Linux junkie lusting after an N900. | 05:10 |
| zerojay | I'm sure he would be happy to help. | 05:10 |
| timeless_mbp | does osx have a recording app? | 05:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 05:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Awesome | 05:10 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: I'll talk to him about it when I get to work tomorrow. | 05:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, not sure about built-in, but there are dozens of 3rd-party solutions. | 05:10 |
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| lcuk | theres gotta be one built in somewhere | 05:11 |
| lcuk | steve needs a place to practice his "boom!" | 05:11 |
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| Tadthebuilder | heh | 05:11 |
| Hydroxide | timeless_mbp: at minimum there are free software ones like audacity which can record and works on OS X | 05:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, I guess GarageBand does technically qualify as "built in" | 05:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, I don't have a good mic here, though. | 05:11 |
| Hydroxide | or that | 05:11 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't think i have garageband | 05:12 |
| Tadthebuilder | audacity | 05:12 |
| timeless_mbp | i have a skype video camera that i got from maemo summit | 05:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | i have access to a nice garage recording setup with booth and everything this weekend, though. ;) | 05:12 |
| Tadthebuilder | is cross platform | 05:12 |
| timeless_mbp | does that count? | 05:12 |
| timeless_mbp | is garageband an optional extra or what? | 05:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not sure. | 05:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | It may depend on the locale and purchase channel. | 05:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seems to have come with my Mac Pro. | 05:12 |
| Hydroxide | timeless_mbp: it's part of iLife | 05:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's come with the last 3 or 4 computers we've purchased. | 05:13 |
| timeless_mbp | it's on my 10.5 ppc | 05:13 |
| Tadthebuilder | I thought it was packaged with their media macs | 05:13 |
| timeless_mbp | which has iLife and friends | 05:13 |
| Hydroxide | timeless_mbp: which comes free with all new macs or can be purchased | 05:13 |
| timeless_mbp | but my mbp is from nokia | 05:13 |
| Hydroxide | timeless_mbp: the mbp probably came with a version of garageband but it might not be in the image they gave you if they reinstalled OS X and didn't reinstall the bundled software that came with the mbp | 05:13 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 05:14 | |
| * timeless_mbp tries to remember how this mac was actually installed | 05:14 | |
| Hydroxide | timeless_mbp: audacity is audio-only, so won't solve the problem for a video camera | 05:14 |
| timeless_mbp | it's certainly possible i reinstalled it | 05:14 |
| Hydroxide | timeless_mbp: if you have all the discs that came with the computer, one of them probably has iLife on it | 05:15 |
| Hydroxide | and anything else bundled | 05:15 |
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| Tadthebuilder | why can my 512 sd card not fit 217 megs of stuff on it | 05:15 |
| Tadthebuilder | when northing else is on it | 05:15 |
| timeless_mbp | check for .Trash and similar :) | 05:15 |
| Hydroxide | Tadthebuilder: is it partitioned? plus what timeless_mbp said | 05:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | or Recycled/Recycler (hidden) ... | 05:16 |
| AStorm | and also, FAT can accept only so many files in the root dir | 05:16 |
| AStorm | (use subdirectories) | 05:16 |
| Tadthebuilder | why cant things just delete when I delete | 05:16 |
| Tadthebuilder | them | 05:16 |
| AStorm | they do | 05:16 |
| Tadthebuilder | I hate trash bins | 05:16 |
| Hydroxide | Tadthebuilder: use the command line on linux, then they do :) | 05:16 |
| AStorm | at least, in Unix. | 05:16 |
| Hydroxide | (or OS X, etc) | 05:16 |
| Tadthebuilder | I would not of clicked delete if I wanted things to go into a trashbin | 05:16 |
| AStorm | then click "Empty Trash" afterwards | 05:17 |
| AStorm | trashcans save lives, jobs and families ;) | 05:17 |
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| AStorm | could use a log-based FS | 05:17 |
| AStorm | like nilfs2, but more stable ;p | 05:17 |
| * timeless_mbp prefers zfs | 05:17 | |
| Tadthebuilder | it worked | 05:17 |
| Tadthebuilder | found trash | 05:17 |
| * timeless_mbp uses it on this mbp | 05:17 | |
| Tadthebuilder | deleted it | 05:17 |
| AStorm | timeless_mbp: zfs is not log-structured | 05:18 |
| AStorm | it doesn't automatically snapshot stuff and garbage collect it | 05:18 |
| timeless_mbp | you can cron snapshotting | 05:18 |
| timeless_mbp | osol has a widget in nautilus to do that | 05:18 |
| AStorm | (that's just a tinsy tiny step off ubifs or jffs2) | 05:18 |
| AStorm | manual = bad | 05:18 |
| Hydroxide | timeless_mbp: I'd be interested to know how zfs treats flash drives like SD cards in terms of wearing out the drives, performance, etc. do you know? | 05:18 |
| AStorm | timed = doesn't work always | 05:18 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't know | 05:19 |
| AStorm | Hydroxide: it treats them badly | 05:19 |
| AStorm | it's a standard B-tree filesystem | 05:19 |
| Hydroxide | AStorm: that was my initial guess | 05:19 |
| AStorm | not much flashy stuff | 05:19 |
| AStorm | so, the journal will rape your flash | 05:19 |
| Tadthebuilder | really i need a bigger sd card | 05:20 |
| AStorm | btrfs is a far better choice (it's Copy-on-Write, no journal to rape your flash) | 05:20 |
| Tadthebuilder | a 16 gig would be nice | 05:20 |
| * Hydroxide gripes in the general direction of whoever's responsible for the n900 delays... | 05:20 | |
| AStorm | as is reiser4 and xfs (these use many small journals) | 05:20 |
| AStorm | nilfs, once it's done, could be good as well (depending on how the log structure is handled) | 05:21 |
| * GeneralAntilles recalls why he stopped highlighting on "general" | 05:23 | |
| Tadthebuilder | because it would show up alot? | 05:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | About 25% of my highlights over the past two weeks have been from that. | 05:24 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 05:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sadly it means I'm going to miss some real highlights but if people really need me. . . . ;) | 05:25 |
| timeless_mbp | oh right | 05:26 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: so... | 05:26 |
| timeless_mbp | someone got startled by some of the legalese strings that conic uses | 05:26 |
| Tadthebuilder | wait you can change with highlights you? | 05:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Depends on your client. | 05:29 |
| * lcuk has bacon as a highlight term | 05:29 | |
| Tadthebuilder | I like bacon | 05:30 |
| Tadthebuilder | ah | 05:30 |
| Tadthebuilder | Im using a firefox plugin | 05:30 |
| Tadthebuilder | anywy | 05:31 |
| Tadthebuilder | im out | 05:31 |
| Tadthebuilder | to bed | 05:31 |
| Tadthebuilder | some of the rest of you should go to bed | 05:31 |
| Tadthebuilder | as well | 05:31 |
| Tadthebuilder | you know where its like three in the morning | 05:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | 'night | 05:31 |
| Tadthebuilder | night all | 05:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't listen to him. | 05:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Keep being productive. | 05:31 |
| Tadthebuilder | i saw that | 05:32 |
| Tadthebuilder | long term | 05:32 |
| lcuk | lol gnite Tadthebuilder | 05:32 |
| Tadthebuilder | theyll be more productive if they sleep | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | We don't care about long term. | 05:32 |
| Tadthebuilder | oh okay | 05:32 |
| Tadthebuilder | bye then | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | :P | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | 'night | 05:32 |
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| Firebird | bacon | 05:33 |
| lcuk | :D | 05:34 |
| * GeneralAntilles likes having a monitor that's higher res than 1080. | 05:37 | |
| timeless_mbp | anyone catch the bbc wn tv "article" about nokia? | 05:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wow, BBC really changed their homepage. | 05:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | wow | 05:39 |
| timeless_mbp | it isn't red | 05:39 |
| bigbrovar_ | linky? | 05:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | their site isn't searchable | 05:41 |
| timeless_mbp | finding a news article is basically impossible | 05:41 |
| *** shdb has joined #maemo | 05:41 | |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 05:41 |
| timeless_mbp | www.bbc.co.uk is green | 05:42 |
| timeless_mbp | news.bbc.co.uk is red | 05:42 |
| timeless_mbp | you can try http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/playlive/bbc_world_service | 05:42 |
| timeless_mbp | the article will start RSN(tm) | 05:42 |
| timeless_mbp | Maemo | 05:44 |
| timeless_mbp | (just mentioned) | 05:44 |
| timeless_mbp | the guy said it would help by the end of next year | 05:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | they didn't show the n900 at all :( | 05:45 |
| timeless_mbp | </newspiece> | 05:45 |
| timeless_mbp | that link doesn't go to the right place fwiw | 05:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | On a completely related note, the Fantastic Mr. Fox trailer looks . . . fantastic. | 05:47 |
| * timeless_mbp tries to remember what was the other thing that needed a hack | 05:49 | |
| timeless_mbp | there was ... arg | 05:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | memory fail | 05:49 |
| lcuk | timeless, localhost net access | 05:51 |
| lcuk | without a connection | 05:51 |
| timeless_mbp | browser should do that iirc | 05:51 |
| timeless_mbp | we hacked it, unless that patch fell out | 05:51 |
| timeless_mbp | heck, that hack was in diablo | 05:51 |
| * lcuk nods | 05:51 | |
| lcuk | i read the bug reports | 05:51 |
| timeless_mbp | this was a string somewhere | 05:52 |
| samad | Good Morning all | 05:53 |
| samad | timeless_mbp, i want to display all contacts from the Address Book and i have run th following code | 05:54 |
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| samad | #include <libosso-abook/osso-abook.h> | 05:55 |
| samad | int main (int argc, char** argv) | 05:55 |
| samad | { | 05:55 |
| samad | osso_context_t *osso_cxt; | 05:55 |
| samad | OssoABookContactModel *default_model; | 05:55 |
| samad | GtkWidget *view, *window; | 05:55 |
| samad | osso_cxt = osso_initialize (argv[0], "1.0", FALSE, NULL); | 05:55 |
| samad | osso_abook_init (&argc, &argv, osso_cxt); | 05:55 |
| samad | window = gtk_window_new (GTK_WINDOW_TOPLEVEL); | 05:55 |
| samad | default_model = osso_abook_contact_model_get_default (); | 05:55 |
| samad | view = osso_abook_contact_view_new_basic (HILDON_UI_MODE_NORMAL, | 05:55 |
| samad | default_model); | 05:55 |
| samad | gtk_container_add (GTK_CONTAINER (window), view); | 05:55 |
| samad | gtk_widget_show (view); | 05:55 |
| samad | gtk_widget_show (window); | 05:55 |
| samad | gtk_main (); | 05:55 |
| samad | } | 05:55 |
| samad | but it shows Segmentation fault (core dumped) | 05:55 |
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| timeless_mbp | compile w/ -g | 05:58 |
| timeless_mbp | if you do that, you can get a basic stack trace if the crash is on your side | 05:58 |
| timeless_mbp | there are tools to try to get -dbg packages for our stuff | 05:58 |
| timeless_mbp | but if that fails, if you have crash-reporter installed, you can send a report, if you leave a comment w/ your email address and a pointer to your -dbg symbols, we can probably arrange to get you a better stack trace | 05:59 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't really speak gtk/abook | 05:59 |
| timeless_mbp | i just know about lots of quirks :) | 05:59 |
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| * timeless_mbp kicks a maemo user | 06:05 | |
| timeless_mbp | oh right | 06:06 |
| timeless_mbp | i was going to hack ham to stop being stupid | 06:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | That's impossible. :P | 06:10 |
| samad | timeless_mbp, i have compiled using w/ -g but no result, Now how could i get -dbg packages that yoy mentioned earlier | 06:11 |
| samad | *you | 06:12 |
| timeless_mbp | http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/chinook/maemo-debug-scripts/ | 06:12 |
| timeless_mbp | you want debug-dep-install | 06:12 |
| *** zpol is now known as lopz | 06:12 | |
| timeless_mbp | are you using maemo-invoker/maemo-summer/maemo-launcher? | 06:12 |
| timeless_mbp | did you try running from gdb? | 06:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, yeah, so that's what that avatar is. | 06:13 |
| * timeless_mbp hopes samad isn't using "strip" | 06:13 | |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: ?? | 06:13 |
| samad | maemo-launcher | 06:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, Talk, you don't want to know. ;) | 06:13 |
| samad | timeless_mbp, i am not using dbg | 06:14 |
| AStorm | samad: also, pastebin ;) | 06:14 |
| AStorm | don't flood the channel. | 06:14 |
| timeless_mbp | 'not using dbg'?? | 06:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok.... so, in theory a bunch of you have devices | 06:17 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone awake now w/ complaints about strings? | 06:18 |
| timeless_mbp | you have 5mins | 06:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I have a complaint. | 06:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't file bugs with real strings now. :P | 06:18 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a script that lets you switch :) | 06:18 |
| timeless_mbp | sudo /usr/sbin/translations-enus1 uninstall | 06:19 |
| timeless_mbp | when you want to go back: | 06:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, but is there a reinstall script? | 06:19 |
| timeless_mbp | sudo /usr/sbin/translations-enus1 install | 06:19 |
| timeless_mbp | actually | 06:19 |
| timeless_mbp | you aren't supposed to do that | 06:19 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: 5 mins won't be enough if you want input from me. | 06:19 |
| timeless_mbp | you're supposed to do: | 06:19 |
| timeless_mbp | /usr/bin/pick-locale-enus.sh | 06:19 |
| timeless_mbp | it should let you pick which strings you want and then call sudo for you | 06:20 |
| timeless_mbp | but i forgot about that :) | 06:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Could the postinst move the Nokia strings to an en_FAIL or something so I can change in the interface? | 06:21 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: atm the pick script doesn't detect whether you have system or my scripts installed | 06:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i need qwerty or someone to write a tiny launcher | 06:21 |
| timeless_mbp | there's already a .desktop file for it | 06:21 |
| timeless_mbp | we could probably fix the .desktop file to go into the main menu instead of control panel | 06:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i just don't know how .desktop files work, and would prefer for it to live in control panel (at least eventually) | 06:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh right | 06:30 |
| timeless_mbp | someone want to explain to me how .desktop files work? :) | 06:30 |
| timeless_mbp | suppose i want a desktop file to run a .sh script, what do i need to do? :) | 06:30 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: en_FAIL... lol | 06:32 |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 06:37 | |
| timeless_mbp | yeah um | 06:37 |
| timeless_mbp | could someone please walk me through writing a .desktop file? :( | 06:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Copy an existing one? | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | and for what? | 06:38 |
| timeless_mbp | to run /usr/bin/pick-locale-enus.sh | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | We asked for a .desktop documentation about 2 years ago. | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dave dumped all of 2 paragraphs in the wiki about 8 months ago. | 06:39 |
| timeless_mbp | dave? | 06:39 |
| timeless_mbp | http://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format | 06:39 |
| timeless_mbp | is what i found | 06:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | dneary | 06:39 |
| timeless_mbp | where is his thing? | 06:39 |
| luke-jr | Isn't .desktop a FreeDesktop standard? | 06:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | You found it. | 06:40 |
| jaem | hey folks | 06:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, but there are lots of Maemo-isms. | 06:40 |
| jaem | can someone with an N900 answer a question for me? | 06:40 |
| luke-jr | o | 06:40 |
| timeless_mbp | well, i don't have any n900s | 06:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i have rx51s :) | 06:40 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, fair enough ;) | 06:40 |
| timeless_mbp | as people who were at summit can vouch :) | 06:41 |
| timeless_mbp | (mine don't say 'n900') | 06:41 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 06:41 |
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| jaem | ...just wondering if the Bluetooth SPP profile is supported out of the box on Fremantle (not necessarily in the GUI) | 06:41 |
| zerojay | timeless_mbp: NXX ftw! | 06:41 |
| lcuk | timeless, total blanks or something else | 06:41 |
| jaem | or if it can be made to work with a minimum of pain | 06:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | no, mine is just unlabeled | 06:42 |
| * lcuk nods | 06:42 | |
| zerojay | timeless_mbp: on the front casing you mean or...? | 06:42 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 06:42 |
| zerojay | Yeah, same here. | 06:42 |
| churl | hello all, is it possible to browse files on a windows server (ntfs) with my n800? | 06:42 |
| timeless_mbp | churl: well... | 06:43 |
| zerojay | churl: if it's using Windows file sharing, I'm sure you can rig something up but it doesn't work out of the box. | 06:43 |
| timeless_mbp | if your windows server runs a web server... | 06:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jaem, it's BlueZ. | 06:43 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc the n800 supports some flavor of UPnP too | 06:43 |
| churl | timeless_mbp: not yet, know a good one? | 06:44 |
| timeless_mbp | although i don't know how to configure windows to use it | 06:44 |
| zerojay | N900 sees my uPnP server right off the bat. | 06:44 |
| timeless_mbp | upnp is probably the preferred solution | 06:44 |
| zerojay | I think WMP has a built-in upnp server. | 06:44 |
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| jaem | GA: yes, I guess my question wasn't a terribly useful one | 06:47 |
| churl | This may sound silly, but I've forgotten how I got files onto my n800..... | 06:47 |
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| jaem | what I should have asked is, is there a way to set up SPP communication on Maemo 5 that is easier than pulling out my hair reading BlueZ's (excuse for) documentation? | 06:48 |
| jaem | will the GUI BT manager do it nicely? | 06:48 |
| jaem | or is that too much to hope for | 06:48 |
| samad | timeless_mbp, would you help me how to install debug-dep-install | 06:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | jaem, I have absolutely no clue. | 06:48 |
| jaem | ah | 06:48 |
| jaem | fair enough | 06:48 |
| jaem | oh wait | 06:49 |
| jaem | >_< | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles | 06:49 |
| jaem | maybe I should just look in this PDF guide to doing *exactly that*, which I just downloaded from Nokia | 06:49 |
| jaem | sorry :S | 06:49 |
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| zerojay | GeneralAntilles, timeless_mbp: What would you guys suggest for the name of a package providing adblock plus for microb? | 06:54 |
| jaem | microBadblock? :P | 06:54 |
| jaem | or not | 06:54 |
| zerojay | Heh. | 06:54 |
| microlith | does it require a special package? | 06:54 |
| zerojay | It's just easier this way. | 06:55 |
| jaem | that reminds me... what's the official capitalization of microB? | 06:55 |
| jaem | that's always how I've written it | 06:55 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles, timeless_mbp: Is having "microb" in the package name frowned upon? Should I just call it adblockplus-browser-addon? | 06:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | AdBlock Plus | 06:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | MicroB | 06:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it's probably more accurate to call it Maemo Browser now. | 06:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just call it adblock-plus or adblockplus | 07:00 |
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| Xisdibik | zerojay: i vote you call it "Shield of Antilles" | 07:33 |
| zerojay | Heh. | 07:34 |
| * Xisdibik wonders what GeneralAntilles will think | 07:36 | |
| Xisdibik | a firewall app would be Antilles Castle | 07:38 |
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| samad | timeless_mbp, would you help me how to install debug-dep-install | 08:07 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 08:07 | |
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| timeless_mbp | enable the sdk repository, install maemo-debug-scripts, disable the sdk repository | 08:09 |
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| ScreaminIke | is there anyone here? | 08:12 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 08:12 |
| timeless_mbp | just 200 of us chickens | 08:12 |
| ScreaminIke | :) | 08:13 |
| ScreaminIke | i'm on my n810 right now and... i have a pretty elaborate problem with, seemingly, few solutions. can anyone help me? | 08:14 |
| ScreaminIke | i want to dl the october 14th show from http://thepiratebay.org/user/Quazza but i can't torrent. at all. anyone willing to grab it for me and forward it via ctcp? it's like 34MB | 08:16 |
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| Xisdibik | hmm | 08:25 |
| Xisdibik | he left lol | 08:25 |
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| * RST38h wonders if Maemo Downloads will eventually add an additional platform button for "Maemo5 Testing" | 08:27 | |
| * Proteous wonders if Superman could cause a volcano by shooting his lazer vision straight down into the magma under the earth's crust | 08:29 | |
| * Xisdibik wonders if money can grow on trees | 08:29 | |
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| * Proteous doesn't belive in recycling paper because it grows on trees | 08:30 | |
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| Stskeeps | woo, i'm doing panning desktops on n8x0 | 10:29 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Is is any good or slideshow? :) | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | GL would certainly speed it up. | 10:29 |
| X-Fade | But not too bad? | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. i am actually running final hildon desktop now | 10:30 |
| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: so... i've gotten my package kinda working | 10:31 |
| timeless_mbp | i need someone who can help me write a .desktop file :) | 10:31 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: maybe you can help? :) | 10:31 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: Don't look at me ;) | 10:31 |
| timeless_mbp | messaging maps store music | 10:32 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 10:32 | |
| timeless_mbp | that's almost 4 ms | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | they need to rename "store" to "mall" | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | Nokia/Ovi Mall sounds so much better :) | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone here know of a .desktop file in an app for maemo which launches a shell script? | 10:33 |
| * Stskeeps wonders why on earth osso-bookmark-engine is closed | 10:33 | |
| timeless_mbp | because it's too embarrassing to open :) | 10:34 |
| *** chx is now known as chx_sleeping | 10:34 | |
| Stskeeps | the basic reason why platform developers will flock to mer is the fact that our stuff actually builds without closed parts, heh | 10:34 |
| timeless_mbp | your stuff will probably also work | 10:35 |
| timeless_mbp | the same can not be said for osso-bookmark-engine (or ui for that matter) | 10:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | tbf: have you written .desktop files? :) | 10:40 |
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| Corsac | timeless_mbp: what would be the problem? | 10:47 |
| Corsac | (with a .desktop file running script) | 10:47 |
| timeless_mbp | dunno | 10:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | ever tried it? | 10:47 |
| Corsac | outside of maemo sure, but inside no | 10:48 |
| lbt | moin | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i have panning desktop on n8x0 :) | 10:49 |
| lbt | <grin> Mesa? | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 10:50 |
| lbt | cool - so ready for the drivers... | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. MBX is GLES 1.1 though | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | so we need to adjust clutter for it | 10:50 |
| lbt | *nod* | 10:51 |
| lbt | not easy | 10:51 |
| RST38h | moo Stskeeps | 10:51 |
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| RST38h | heya lbt | 10:51 |
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| Stskeeps | morning RST38h, tekojo | 10:51 |
| lbt | hi RST38h | 10:51 |
| tekojo | Morning Stskeeps | 10:51 |
| lbt | hi tekojo | 10:51 |
| tekojo | Morning lbt | 10:52 |
| RST38h | heya tero | 10:52 |
| * lbt was playing on the LF OBS last night... wow. | 10:52 | |
| Stskeeps | fast? :P | 10:52 |
| crashanddie_ | baa RST38h, Stskeeps, lbt, timeless_mbp et all | 10:52 |
| lbt | blinding | 10:52 |
| * RST38h shaves crashanddie | 10:53 | |
| lbt | it built packages almost as fast as I uploaded them | 10:53 |
| crashanddie_ | RST38h, just did | 10:53 |
| timeless_mbp | hi crashanddie_ | 10:53 |
| lbt | Mer built on it in a few hours | 10:53 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, surely one of the now awake people can help me w/ my .desktop troubles :) | 10:53 |
| lbt | all Mer | 10:53 |
| crashanddie_ | anyway, late for work | 10:53 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: any progress on cross? | 10:53 |
| lbt | yes | 10:53 |
| crashanddie_ | sorry timeless_mbp | 10:53 |
| lbt | last night was cross->LF night | 10:54 |
| lbt | plus some restructure to avoid cyclic rebuilds | 10:54 |
| lbt | when libc builds and triggers binutils to rebuild which triggers libc to rebuild | 10:54 |
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| lbt | there's a cycle breaker for rpm we need to implement for .debs | 10:55 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 10:55 |
| RST38h | Any kind Nokia employee can tell me how I can block waiting for DBus messages? | 10:57 |
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| RST38h | I.e. when I receive inactivity notification, I would like to block and wait, notwasting any power | 10:57 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Changed providers? =) | 10:57 |
| wazd | heya all | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: isn't that libosso? | 10:58 |
| wazd | RST38h: nope :) | 10:58 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: you could bribe koen to get early access to drivers :) | 10:58 |
| RST38h | Sts: It may be but I have no idea how to do it | 10:59 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: the cycle thing won't hold us up - it's a nice to have - I worked around it | 10:59 |
| lbt | there is a bugfix that I don't think SR moved to the LF OBS | 10:59 |
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| murrayc | RST38h: I don't understand. If you don't want to use power, then don't do anything. | 11:00 |
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| RST38h | murrayc: Could you explain how I do not do anything? =) | 11:05 |
| samad | timeless_mbp, i can't fix the problem of how to install debug-dep-install ? | 11:05 |
| RST38h | murrayc: I need to execute some function that will block in the kernel and not return until I get a DBus message. | 11:05 |
| timeless_mbp | samad: did you add the sdk repo? | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: use a glib event loop? | 11:05 |
| RST38h | If I do not block in the kernel, I spend battery power | 11:06 |
| murrayc | RST38h: Well, it would be nice to assume that if you don't do any processing, and if your application doesn't need to respond to any UI events, then it won't use much power. That may indeed be naive. | 11:06 |
| samad | i am not clear how to add the repository | 11:06 |
| RST38h | murrayc: It is only true if your application spends it whole time in glib event loop | 11:06 |
| samad | plz clear me | 11:06 |
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| RST38h | murrayc: Mine does not. And calling main_loop_do(true) exits this function very frequently | 11:07 |
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| murrayc | RST38h: What does your app do? Are you using extra threads? | 11:07 |
| timeless_mbp | open add/remove (app.manager, whatever) | 11:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | tap the title area | 11:07 |
| timeless_mbp | select catalog(ue)s | 11:07 |
| RST38h | murayc: I am using a single thread and a single GtkImage widget | 11:07 |
| timeless_mbp | wait until the new button brightens (For me this takes about a minute or maybe two) | 11:07 |
| RST38h | murrayc: this is not very important as far as this problem is concerned though | 11:08 |
| timeless_mbp | tap new | 11:08 |
| timeless_mbp | enter: | 11:08 |
| timeless_mbp | Name: Sdk | 11:08 |
| murrayc | RST38h: So you are doing some processing in an idle handler? | 11:08 |
| timeless_mbp | Address: http://repository.maemo.org/ | 11:08 |
| timeless_mbp | Distribution: fremantle | 11:08 |
| RST38h | murrayc: I do not have an idle handler | 11:08 |
| timeless_mbp | Components: sdk/free | 11:08 |
| timeless_mbp | tap save | 11:08 |
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| murrayc | RST38h: Do you mean that you have a single thread (the regular GTK+ UI thread) or one single extra thread? | 11:08 |
| timeless_mbp | samad: wait, are you on a device or in a scratchbox? :) | 11:08 |
| RST38h | murrayc: as I said before, I do process glib messages but do not do it in the glib loop | 11:09 |
| samad | scratchbox? | 11:09 |
| RST38h | ONE thread total | 11:09 |
| samad | scratchbox | 11:09 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 11:09 |
| timeless_mbp | apt-cache search maemo-debug-scripts | 11:09 |
| murrayc | RST38h: That's rather strange then, and unfamiliar to me. | 11:09 |
| murrayc | RST38h: Sorry. | 11:09 |
| RST38h | murrayc: It is not a glib application, that is all | 11:09 |
| RST38h | murraycd: It uses glib to receive messages but it is not built around glib | 11:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | murrayc: fwiw, gecko does a similar thing iirc | 11:10 |
| Corsac | gecko isn't exactly the best example of good programming, though | 11:10 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 11:11 | |
| Corsac | not that what you do isn't the best example of good programming! | 11:11 |
| Corsac | it definitely is | 11:12 |
| slonopotamus | so.. 3d drivers in 2 weeks? | 11:12 |
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| RST38h | Anyway, outside of changing your application to run inside a glib event loop, how do I block waiting for DBus messages? | 11:12 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: should be a way to do it in dbus lib i would guess | 11:13 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: .desktop files? yes. why? | 11:13 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm trying to make an icon that launches a shell script | 11:13 |
| RST38h | Sts: Checked yesterday, no doughnut | 11:14 |
| RST38h | Basically, I would be happy just doing gtk_main_iteration_do(TRUE) but the damn thing does not block (no matter what documentation says) | 11:14 |
| * RST38h even limited GTK events to focus changes, but the iteration_do still exits | 11:15 | |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: so where to fail? | 11:16 |
| timeless_mbp | dunno :) | 11:16 |
| samad | timeless_mbp, im using scratchbox | 11:19 |
| timeless_mbp | samad: yeah, i told you.... apt-get install maemo-debug-scripts | 11:20 |
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| * Stskeeps wonders who chose the media player internet radio | 11:22 | |
| Stskeeps | i miss the old list from n8x0 | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | 'chose'? | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, isn't that correct spelling? who chose the m p internet radio list | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | you dropped 'list' | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | the parsing is totally different :) | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | so far the only thing i've seen in the new list is that they can't consistently use a <space> before a <dash> | 11:24 |
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| samad | timeless_mbp, i have installe | 11:25 |
| samad | installed | 11:25 |
| samad | timeless_mbp, Now how can i debug ? | 11:25 |
| timeless_mbp | now you can read the instructions from the url | 11:25 |
| timeless_mbp | it should explain how to use the script to get debug symbols for your app | 11:25 |
| samad | timeless_mbp, ok thanks | 11:26 |
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| Stskeeps | why does maemojobs show up in my gmail as advertisement.. | 11:28 |
| lardman | morning chaps | 11:28 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: well it is an advert itsn't it? | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 11:29 |
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| lardman | qwerty12_N810: your DEB_DH_INSTALL_SOURCEDIR tweak didn't work :( | 11:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: help | 11:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | i need another cpa item for maemo5 | 11:40 |
| timeless_mbp | can you make it for me? :) | 11:40 |
| lardman | I hate dialogs | 11:40 |
| lardman | :) | 11:40 |
| * timeless_mbp hates menus | 11:40 | |
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| lardman | let's just go for hating GUIs in general? :) | 11:41 |
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| xzsh | timeless: why haven't menus made the jump from structured tree to search? | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 11:42 |
| xzsh | there was some article about some cycle that happens again and againt in computing (or everything) | 11:43 |
| xzsh | first there is structured trees (yahoo, start menu etc) then when that no longer works due to scaling | 11:43 |
| xzsh | it changes to search (google) | 11:43 |
| koala_man | because menus are faster | 11:45 |
| xzsh | for small sets of data, yes | 11:45 |
| koala_man | yes | 11:45 |
| koala_man | the start menu does have search now | 11:45 |
| xzsh | and i have gnome-do | 11:45 |
| koala_man | optimizing presentation for the current problem size is a good thing | 11:47 |
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| Corsac | search and menus don't reply to the same problem though | 11:50 |
| xzsh | I think it would be interesting to apply the search approach to application menus | 11:51 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | morn jaffa | 11:55 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie_: Haven't used Pluthon yet. Example of reading accelerometer: | 11:55 |
| lardman | morning Jaffa | 11:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: how do i restart Mer's hildon-desktop? | 11:57 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm using some old version | 11:57 |
| * timeless_mbp has no idea how to get a Mer "version" | 11:57 | |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: rebooting? :P | 11:57 |
| timeless_mbp | that's what i've been doing | 11:58 |
| timeless_mbp | but surely there's some way to get x to respawn instead? | 11:58 |
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| Stskeeps | ctrl-alt-f1 and root/rootme, /etc/init.d/auto-startx restartx | 11:58 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie_: https://garage.maemo.org/viewvc/trunk/packages/attitude.pkg/providers.py?revision=284&root=mud-builder&view=markup | 11:58 |
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| Stskeeps | er, restart, not restartx | 11:59 |
| timeless_mbp | woohoo | 12:00 |
| timeless_mbp | much faster than rebooting | 12:00 |
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| Stskeeps | woo, i have status area applets | 12:03 |
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| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: screenshots ! | 12:04 |
| Meiz_n810 | :) | 12:04 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 12:04 |
| X-Fade | Pics or it didn't happen ;) | 12:04 |
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| lardman | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=346935&postcount=74 interesting | 12:06 |
| lardman | and not the German tongue bit | 12:07 |
| X-Fade | lardman: were you really holding out this long? :) | 12:08 |
| X-Fade | lardman: in 3 years, you never uploaded to Extras? :) | 12:08 |
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| lardman | indeed | 12:08 |
| lardman | :) | 12:08 |
| lardman | end users, pah! | 12:08 |
| X-Fade | heh | 12:08 |
| lardman | oh dear, I bet that gets me struck off the list now! ;) | 12:09 |
| X-Fade | Anyway, accepted ;) | 12:09 |
| lardman | "wrong attitude: fail" | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-hildondesktop-fremantle.png | 12:09 |
| lardman | thanks :) | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | and http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-hildondesktop-statusarea.png | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | black background is due to me editing transitions | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | (this is on a n810 btw) | 12:10 |
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| X-Fade | Another quick garage outage is coming up in 20 minutes. | 12:11 |
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| X-Fade | I hope that after that, we are done with reboots etc ;) | 12:11 |
| lardman | someone needed to resolder the flash inside the 770 I take it? | 12:12 |
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| lardman | ;) | 12:12 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Nah, remote storage over wlan of course ;) | 12:12 |
| lardman | :) | 12:12 |
| X-Fade | But it needs to be in single user mode to copy/move homedirs etc. | 12:13 |
| lbt | SyncML over IP ? | 12:13 |
| lbt | how hard can it be? | 12:13 |
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| lbt | 'cos I was stumped last night :( | 12:13 |
| RST38h | Sts: ! | 12:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyone here willing to risk their fremantle device? :) | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: cool | 12:19 |
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| Stskeeps | now for making desktop widgets work by ripping out bookmark engine.. | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | wait, what depends on bookmarks and why? | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, could someone please explain how .desktop files actually work on Maemo? | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | i finally got a .desktop file that Mer [Maemo4] liked | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: hildon-home depends on bookmark engine | 12:22 |
| lardman | X-Fade: in the email I just got, and indeed on Garage itself, it says "check the invitation", should that not read "confirm the invitation"? | 12:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | is that because it provides the add bookmark widget itself? | 12:22 |
| * lardman needs to generate some keys | 12:22 | |
| X-Fade | lardman: details, details ;) | 12:22 |
| lardman | lol | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: yes | 12:22 |
| lardman | np | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: file a bug in bugs.maemo.org | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: ok, what stupid black magic do i need to make my .desktop file good enough for hildon? | 12:23 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: yeah I know | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | oh brother | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | dpkg sucks | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | you can't rename files using .install | 12:23 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 12:23 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok fine, i won't do this that way | 12:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok. i have an icon in the launcher! | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, a button, not an icon, the icon got lost | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | ok... | 12:28 |
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| balor | Is there a maemo-platform handwriting recognition library for use with Gtk/QT? | 12:29 |
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| samad | i have installed the maemo-debug-scripts and read the link http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/chinook/maemo-debug-scripts/ | 12:31 |
| samad | but i am not clear | 12:32 |
| samad | timeless_mbp, | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | you want debug-pkg-check | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/debug-dep-install/ | 12:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | balor: for maemo4, nokia licensed a handwriting library | 12:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | it is no longer part of the product | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | woohoo | 12:36 |
| * timeless_mbp crashed settings | 12:36 | |
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| balor | timeless_mbp, So there's no handwriting recognition in Freemantle? | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | uh oh | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | balor: Even better, there is no Freemantle ;) | 12:37 |
| * timeless_mbp messed something up very badly | 12:37 | |
| balor | X-Fade, Sorry, I meant Maemo5 | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | balor: Fremantle only has 1 e before the m | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | balor: -e should be enough ;) | 12:37 |
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| RST38h | well, there is handwriting recognition in s60e5 | 12:38 |
| * RST38h even knows humans who use it | 12:38 | |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: so... | 12:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | i think my package might be ready enough for you | 12:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | as long as you don't need access to settings :) | 12:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | since right now it crashes it :) | 12:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | is there an icon cache? | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | indeed | 12:44 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 12:44 | |
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| timeless_mbp | fun fun | 12:48 |
| *** jospoortvliet has joined #maemo | 12:48 | |
| * timeless_mbp finally gets a version that doesn't install or uninstall | 12:48 | |
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| timeless_mbp | where's the apt cache? | 12:49 |
| timeless_mbp | for .debs | 12:49 |
| Stskeeps | interesting, old HIM actually works in new desktop | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | ooh shiny! | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-hildondesktop-styluskeyboard.png | 12:52 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 12:52 |
| Stskeeps | that looks insane, obviously, but that's cos it doesn't have the correct theme file | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | that keyboard probably never really worked, did it? | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | the 'm' doesn't fit | 12:53 |
| crashanddie | has jalimo been ported to maemo5? | 12:53 |
| crashanddie | and is it integrated with the browser? | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | we support flash | 12:54 |
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| jumpula | timeless_mbp: /var/cache/apt/archives | 12:55 |
| timeless_mbp | thanks | 12:56 |
| timeless_mbp | it didn't seem to matter thankfully | 12:56 |
| * timeless_mbp is happy | 12:56 | |
| timeless_mbp | so.. if anyone wants to risk bricking their device, please contact me | 12:56 |
| crashanddie | btw, Law of Maemo presentations: If you want to demo everything from the tablet and everything works, there's something wrong with the equipment | 12:56 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 12:57 |
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| koala_man | how is the N900 keyboard for gaming? does it support 3+ simultaneous keypresses (assuming 3 thumbs)? | 12:59 |
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| timeless | ctrl-shift-p is frequently used :) | 13:01 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: eeek :) | 13:02 |
| lardman | bbiab | 13:02 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-hildondesktop-fremantle.png is better | 13:02 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: yeah :) | 13:03 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: I wonder why scrollbar is ruined | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | this is a rather shakey non-GL drivers setup so | 13:03 |
| wazd | some of the theme bugs are Theme Maker's bugs actually | 13:03 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie: See the link for Python accelerometer reading? | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: the real theme tools are better yeah | 13:06 |
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| adeus | mm Nokia Q3 results are in | 13:07 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: can I use them? :) | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i need to poke some people to trickle them on to gitorious | 13:09 |
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| crashanddie | Jaffa: yeah, saw your stuff | 13:20 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: painfully slow though | 13:20 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: looks seriously cool though :P | 13:20 |
| crashanddie | o/ ccooke | 13:20 |
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| samad | timeless_mbp, would you clear me that contact show, phone call, sms is possible in Maemo 5 SDK for N900 | 13:23 |
| crashanddie | "clear me"? | 13:23 |
| samad | timeless_mbp, I also need the API for any missed call or unread sms | 13:25 |
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| samad | how can i check missed call or unread sms for n900 ? plz any API ? | 13:33 |
| * timeless shrugs | 13:33 | |
| * timeless works on nrowser not abook | 13:34 | |
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| tbf | samad: rtcom-eventlogger | 13:36 |
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| samad | tbf, rtcom-eventlogger mean ? if explain plz | 13:37 |
| tbf | samad: that's the api for checking missing calls | 13:37 |
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| samad | tbf , for unread SMS what's the API plz ? | 13:38 |
| timeless | ;m tbf *sigh* | 13:40 |
| timeless | samad: you need to use locate/dpkg/google when people give you suggestions | 13:42 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie: Cairo isn't accelerated on Maemo. Will switch to using Clutter or something for speed, but need to a) be bothered; b) find time | 13:42 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: is Qt accelerated? | 13:43 |
| crashanddie | well, Qt with OpenGL I guess | 13:43 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: can't seem to be finding any PyQt or PySide libraries though | 13:43 |
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| samad | timeless Actually i am very beginner in device programming | 13:43 |
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| samad | just i want to know is it possible or not ? | 13:44 |
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| tbf | samad: librtcom-eventlogger is the API for reading such events. it should be published on maemo.gitorious.org soon | 13:46 |
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| samad | tbf, that means it is not workbale now | 13:47 |
| tbf | samad: patience. patience. the device is not even on sale yet! ;-) | 13:48 |
| tbf | samed: well maybe the headers are in the SDK already. | 13:48 |
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| X-Fade | samad: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/r/rtcom-eventlogger/librtcom-eventlogger-dev_0.79-2+0m5_armel.deb | 13:50 |
| samad | tbf, yes u r right , but i need to know The librtcom-eventlogger API is workable or not ? plz | 13:50 |
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| tbf | samed: did you try "apt-get install librtcom-eventlogger-dev" in your SDK? | 13:50 |
| samad | tbf, no | 13:50 |
| tbf | samad: it's available, API frozen and used all over the place in Maemo 5 | 13:50 |
| samad | tbf, thanks | 13:51 |
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| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Got AdBlock Plus working. Let me know if you wanna test it out. | 14:05 |
| adeus | uuu | 14:06 |
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| lardman | re | 14:07 |
| ensi | you guys have an idea how to fix this problem when trying to apt-get update | 14:08 |
| ensi | E: The method driver /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/lib/apt/methods/https could not be found. | 14:08 |
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| timeless | zerojay: please test my package :) | 14:14 |
| zerojay | timeless: I'm going to do that now that I got this one mostly done. | 14:14 |
| timeless | cool | 14:14 |
| adeus | ensi, sometimes I had to dig the https manually into the target | 14:14 |
| adeus | method | 14:14 |
| timeless | i need to take a fresh device and install it | 14:15 |
| ensi | adeus: can you clarify that please? | 14:16 |
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| adeus | ensi, if you just want to get rid of that error copy the method into your target | 14:16 |
| zerojay | Hmm.. poking around the old browser-extras SVN... didn't know they were working on a port of FirefoxJournal for Diablo. | 14:16 |
| zerojay | timeless: What package should adblock-plus depend upon for Maemo Browser? | 14:17 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-fremantle-desktopshortcut.png | 14:20 |
| RichiH | are there any plans for maemo 6 being ported to the n900? (i guess not, but asking does not hurt) | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | RichiH: asking nokia would be a better choice i guess | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | we'll port whatever comes out of harmattan, from mer pov :P | 14:20 |
| RichiH | Stskeeps: there are nokia people in here, even if they are somewhat loath to identify themselves | 14:20 |
| ensi | adeus: what is the method and what is the target? | 14:21 |
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| RichiH | Stskeeps: shouldn't i ask mer about mer's pov? ;) | 14:21 |
| RichiH | #mer | 14:21 |
| Stskeeps | mer's a open project :P | 14:21 |
| kirma | richih: the situation seems to be entirely open... technically it wouldn't be hard, but there's no promise it would happen either. | 14:21 |
| adeus | ensi, your missing /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/lib/apt/methods/https | 14:21 |
| kirma | well, s/would/should/ | 14:21 |
| adeus | ensi, it is in /scratchbox/devkits/apt-https/lib/apt/methods/https | 14:21 |
| adeus | either take that devkit into use or copy that file into the ecth devkit | 14:22 |
| RichiH | kirma: yah, when i read that nokia plans to deploy maemo 6 on an omap 3 platform, i started to wonder | 14:22 |
| kirma | they might be making the decision on the basis of n900 sales figures. if it sells well, it's probably worth to maintain... but even in that case, they might not provide incremental upgrade path, which makes it tedious for "normal" users to do it. | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | There are several issues. If n900 sells very badly compared to forecasts for n920 - little effort may go in. | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | (where 920 is a random number) | 14:23 |
| kirma | maemo 5 and maemo 6 will have considerably differing user experience at some level... | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | And if 6 multitouch is a major part - that presents obvious problems with the 900 | 14:24 |
| kirma | yep | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | The flipside is that mer-on-n900 is likely to improve dramatically with several thousand n900s in the wild. | 14:24 |
| kirma | I wonder if nokia is going to go multitouch-only devices or multitouch-dominated gestures... | 14:24 |
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| range | I still wonder why everybody wants to have multitouch. | 14:25 |
| kirma | I should probably offer too much beer to some specific friends and fish some information. ;> | 14:25 |
| glass | kirma: they might feed you shit information(just seeing their viewpoint on the whole thing) | 14:25 |
| kirma | glass: of course. | 14:25 |
| samad | tbf, i have installed librtcom-eventlogger-plugins-dev_0.31-1+0m5_i386.deb Now could u help me how can be used the API ? I am not finding user manual | 14:25 |
| glass | the difficulty with making these assumptions on if something will be supported or not in timespace xyz is that nobody probably inside nokia even knows for sure | 14:25 |
| Lupu | ...but the beer would still be just fine ;) | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | range: because multitouch+capacitative are now the only words the unwashed pubic knows. | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | public | 14:26 |
| kirma | somehow I feel that although multitouch is fancy, it's not *so* practical. single-handed usage scenarios are practically impossible with it. | 14:26 |
| tbf | samad: no -doc package? | 14:26 |
| range | SpeedEvil: I liked the first version better :) | 14:26 |
| tbf | samad: maybe you can get the source via librtcom-eventlogger-plugins? | 14:26 |
| samad | yes | 14:26 |
| tbf | samad: had the luck of not getting bothered with it so far. just know that it is the component you have to use | 14:27 |
| kirma | I think they're scratching their heads if they should implement both multitouch and other gestures/methods for everything or not | 14:27 |
| samad | google search shows only package name not API reference | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: It would be practical and damn cool if it could do finger detection. | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: so pinky = zoom, index = select | 14:28 |
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| kirma | the amount of two-finger gestures that are practical and differ from single-finger gestures is actually surprisingly small, if you think of it. | 14:29 |
| ptlo | samad, you've got both the packages, dev packages, and sources of eventlogger here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/r/; rtcom-eventlogger is the logger core (logging,querying the log); rtcom-eventlogger-ui is gtk widget for showing the log, accompanying model object and a search widget; -plugins implement specific per-service functionality (e.g. chat event support) | 14:29 |
| kirma | and two fingers on the screen obscure more than one. | 14:30 |
| Corsac | Jaffa: mhmh, looking at arm website, it seems that cortex-a8 supports trustzone | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: yeah | 14:30 |
| ptlo | samad: in rtcom-eventlogger source tree, you can look at tests/check_el.c for examples how to use the api; there's also a sample commandline client in client/el-client.c | 14:30 |
| samad | ptlo, thanks | 14:31 |
| ptlo | samad, for example on how to use the gtk widget, look in rtcom-eventlogger-ui source tree in example/example.c | 14:31 |
| X-Fade | Corsac: http://www.slideshare.net/peterschneider/maemo-6-technology-highlights page 3 | 14:31 |
| X-Fade | Corsac: Maemo 6 will stay with Omap 3. | 14:31 |
| ptlo | also the functions are annotated in the headers (which you can use as a function ref); there are no explicit docs for the api | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | ptlo: hmm, did you use to hang out in #l4ka or something? | 14:32 |
| ptlo | Stskeeps, heya! wow, is world a small place or what :D yes i did, around '05/'06, dabbled with Pistachio for my diploma thesis | 14:32 |
| kirma | corsac: having a true root of trust probably depends on startup code on OMAP3 internal ROM though. if nokia has been forward-looking enough, the code there verifies that next piece of code loaded on the device is always signed by trusted body... which would be something like signed boot loader supplied by nokia in this case. that way they could deploy DRM on N900 as software upgrade... | 14:33 |
| lardman | So, thoughts on whether to use telepathy api or the osso-abook api to detect which contacts are online? | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | ptlo: hehe, yeah :) i'm now happy with maemo stuff :P | 14:33 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: absolutely ideally, with each device having a seperate key too | 14:33 |
| Corsac | kirma: read the maemo6 security slides | 14:33 |
| Corsac | X-Fade: yeah I know the slides, but I was refering to maemo5 :) | 14:34 |
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| X-Fade | Corsac: Yeah, I just wanted to point out same hardware. | 14:34 |
| kirma | corsac: link? | 14:34 |
| X-Fade | kirma: http://www.slideshare.net/peterschneider/maemo-6-platform-security | 14:35 |
| Corsac | kirma: X-Fade gave it | 14:35 |
| kirma | hmh. | 14:35 |
| X-Fade | kirma: page 5 | 14:35 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: you about? | 14:35 |
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| ptlo | Stskeeps, yeah, a hackable embedded stuff you can use for real, not just in a pc emulator :) [tho i saw on okl4 pages it's used in some phones, but not as an open platform] | 14:37 |
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| lardman | X-Fade: if I want to upload a package, do I need to change a field and stick my name in somewhere? | 14:38 |
| lardman | in debian/control | 14:38 |
| kirma | corsac: anyway, it's kind of stupid if that isn't already in the boot rom of N900s, just unused. | 14:38 |
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| Corsac | kirma: I'm wondering what is the maemo5 security architecture, yes | 14:40 |
| Corsac | if there's any | 14:40 |
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| kirma | there isn't much of it there, or none in the same sense. | 14:40 |
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| kirma | as far as I understood... | 14:40 |
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| Stskeeps | ptlo: i do Mer now (wiki.maemo.org/Mer) | 14:41 |
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| kirma | but I'd sincerely hope that capability of verifying signed boot loaders and allowing only those to use trustzone features is there, because that would make it relatively trivial to support DRM and such stuff on existing N900s... | 14:42 |
| Corsac | that would suck | 14:43 |
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| Corsac | trustzone is only about allowing some code to run in a secure zone, not allowing some code to crack drm | 14:43 |
| kirma | I'm not quite certain if one could protect specific areas of flash storage from nonprivileged access though | 14:43 |
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| Corsac | I don't care about drm, but I do care about doing stuff in protected mode | 14:44 |
| X-Fade | aegis secure storage | 14:44 |
| X-Fade | next slide ;) | 14:44 |
| mikhas | what I hope is that you cannot change the ARM TrEE setup remotely, like disabling running a free bootloader. | 14:44 |
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| X-Fade | mikhas: You can't replace the bootloader :) | 14:45 |
| mikhas | err, kernel. | 14:45 |
| X-Fade | mikhas: As the cpu only accepts signed loader. | 14:45 |
| mikhas | tell me more | 14:45 |
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| X-Fade | mikhas: As long as your device isn't simlocked, you can run a free kernel | 14:46 |
| mikhas | and this privilege cant be revoked at a later point, right? | 14:46 |
| Corsac | and, looking at trustzone, I don't think it would be impossible to use trustzone with a free kernel | 14:46 |
| Corsac | as long as drivers are available, though | 14:46 |
| X-Fade | mikhas: Not without updating bootloader | 14:46 |
| mikhas | good | 14:47 |
| kirma | x-fade: I'm trying to understand what this "aegis" really is | 14:47 |
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| X-Fade | kirma: basically a capability and encryption framework | 14:47 |
| kirma | just software? | 14:48 |
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| X-Fade | kirma: you will have regular fopen and fopen_secure next to each other | 14:48 |
| X-Fade | Don't know the actual name of the call :) | 14:48 |
| kirma | hmh, that level. | 14:49 |
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| lardman | where is the simlock info held? | 14:49 |
| X-Fade | probably in a protected area, probed by bootloader? | 14:50 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd expect it to be on the mobile phone hardware core | 14:50 |
| zerojayN900 | http://www.theonion.com/content/?q=news_briefs/cell_phone_stuck_in_2_year | 14:50 |
| zerojayN900 | lol | 14:50 |
| X-Fade | Or that, phone part is basically running on different hardware. | 14:50 |
| kirma | I sort of understand the need for security frameworks, but also the "rights management frameworks", and certainly trusted execution contexts for future devices running radio protocol stack on the same silicon with applications... which would allow running own kernel with something like symbian-derived soft 3GPP modem on the side. | 14:51 |
| kirma | DRM matters mostly to bring commercial vendors to the device, which matters to succeed on the market. | 14:51 |
| X-Fade | Igor Stoppa showed the internal device layout in his talk. | 14:52 |
| kirma | higher-level security frameworks are just nice for customer security | 14:52 |
| X-Fade | Phone part is basically a S40 phone to which the kernel talks ;) | 14:52 |
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| kirma | I'm not too surprised. | 14:53 |
| glass | yeh afaik a lot of symbian smartphone cheapness(of the cheap models) is running just one arm core | 14:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | zerojay: ok, it seems i'm using a package that isn't part of Maemo5 default :( | 14:53 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 14:53 | |
| * timeless_mbp goes to change the code a bit | 14:53 | |
| zerojayN900 | oh? | 14:54 |
| zerojayN900 | so just wait then? | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | my perl uses File::Copy | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah | 14:54 |
| zerojayN900 | ok | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | it'll take me ~2mins | 14:54 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: and also regulatory approval and cheapness. | 14:54 |
| zaheerm | so the screenshotter doesn't capture Xv | 14:54 |
| zerojayN900 | msg me the repo address again. don't have it on me. | 14:54 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: If you can make a single-core phone that has the radio stack on the same CPU as the applications, you reduce the cost. | 14:54 |
| kirma | the provable chain of trust would be essential for the software-implemented radio stack. | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 14:55 |
| Corsac | kirma: higher level security are interesting for a lot of people | 14:55 |
| kirma | but it doesn't matter for N900... but for future devices, maybe. | 14:55 |
| Corsac | kirma: especially business ones | 14:55 |
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| kirma | real-timeness of linux kernel to cope with other kernel running on side the 3GPP stack is something that makes me doubt a bit if it's possible | 14:56 |
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| kirma | higher level security should be easier to implement I hope. | 14:57 |
| timeless_mbp | zerojay: ok, it's ready | 14:57 |
| * timeless_mbp goes to find something | 14:58 | |
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| * tigert plays netradio with the 770 | 14:59 | |
| tigert | man this thing is cute, but also huge compared to the N900 | 14:59 |
| jeremiah | lardman: Sorry to not have been around yesterday. Had a nice birthday dinner though if that is any consolation. | 14:59 |
| jeremiah | lardman: How did libchamplain packaging go? | 14:59 |
| jeremiah | The lastlog seems to indicate you may have found a solution? | 14:59 |
| creideiki | I was going to try installing Mer on my SmartQ5, but the links on http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.14 are 404. Are the images available somewhere else? | 15:00 |
| creideiki | Or should I just wait for 0.16? | 15:00 |
| Stskeeps | #mer | 15:01 |
| creideiki | OK. | 15:01 |
| tigert | is there mer for 770 btw? | 15:01 |
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| jeremiah | creideiki: check out #mer on freenode. | 15:01 |
| * tigert wonders how to resurrect the hardware | 15:02 | |
| jeremiah | tigert: I think I asked Stskeeps about that and he said yes | 15:02 |
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| tigert | ok | 15:02 |
| tigert | well | 15:02 |
| * tigert asks google | 15:02 | |
| jeremiah | tigert: Well, Stskeeps got it to work anyway. :) | 15:02 |
| X-Fade | Even Maemo5 desktop should work ;) | 15:02 |
| X-Fade | Slideshow-ish.. | 15:02 |
| tigert | well, heh yeah exactly | 15:02 |
| jeremiah | slideshow-ish lol | 15:02 |
| tigert | if you use it outdoors in winter you even get some nice fade transitions ;) | 15:03 |
| X-Fade | Heh indeed. | 15:03 |
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| * tigert ponders installing mer on the N810 instead | 15:07 | |
| tigert | the 770 is so cute though | 15:08 |
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| Stskeeps | mer will certainly be nicer when we have GLES drivers | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-fremantle-desktop.png | 15:09 |
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| jeremiah | Stskeeps: Whoah! | 15:09 |
| jeremiah | nice | 15:09 |
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| tigert | http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/4013325571/ | 15:10 |
| tigert | I'd say there has been some progress ;) | 15:10 |
| zaheerm | Stskeeps, i heard something about gl not being possible due to hardware limitations with chipset and screen res | 15:10 |
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| zaheerm | http://www.flickr.com/photos/aandza/4014130120/ <-- little python app doing a gst pipeline videotestsrc ! ximagesink | 15:12 |
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| Stskeeps | zaheerm: seemingly not true | 15:12 |
| zaheerm | Stskeeps, i look forward to seeing hardware accelerated gl on my n810 | 15:14 |
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| X-Fade | zaheerm: But that doesn't say it will be fast ;) | 15:16 |
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| zaheerm | X-Fade, if it is fast enough to do the fremantle effects like the task switcher, it'll be nice | 15:17 |
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| udzinari | Hello, do we have GPS working in Mer? | 15:17 |
| X-Fade | zaheerm: I'm still worried that is has enough power for the small screen res like N95 and our screen is 4 times as big orso ;) | 15:17 |
| Stskeeps | udzinari: yes but not under later kernels | 15:18 |
| udzinari | Stskeeps: any idea if we will have it in 0.16 or 0.17? | 15:19 |
| Stskeeps | udzinari: 0.17/0.18 is goal. we have some legal issues to deal with | 15:19 |
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| udzinari | Stskeeps: hope they will be dealt with ease :) thank you and good luck! | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | udzinari: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Roadmap | 15:20 |
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| Shapeshifter | when using gstreamer in my C app, compiling with -Wall -pedantic shows lots of errors in the gstreamer lib saying "/gstinfo.h:1144:37: warning: anonymous variadic macros were introduced in C99". How can I disable just this warning? | 15:36 |
| Shapeshifter | and also this: gstutils.h:565:1: warning: use of C99 long long integer constant | 15:36 |
| suihkulokki | -std=c99 | 15:37 |
| Shapeshifter | suihkulokki: mhh, okay. thanks | 15:38 |
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| kirma | "Citing anonymous sources, the Apple news site says the functionality of the application will be similar to what Apple built into the iPod Nano. That includes the ability to pause live FM transmissions and fast-forward when you resume playing." | 15:45 |
| kirma | hmmh. that doesn't sound like too bad feature for N900 radio app either, considering it is going through software anyway. | 15:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | zerojay: ok, one last bug in the package | 15:46 |
| timeless_mbp | the sudoers file doesn't work | 15:46 |
| lardman|home | kirma: yep | 15:46 |
| * timeless_mbp found the bug | 15:46 | |
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| lardman|home | morning fiferboy | 15:47 |
| fiferboy | hey lardman|home | 15:47 |
| lardman|home | well I guess it is for you anyway | 15:47 |
| kirma | like pause-radio-for-calls | 15:47 |
| fiferboy | You guessed right :) | 15:47 |
| lardman|home | skip commercial breaks more like ;) | 15:47 |
| lardman|home | kirma: need a "cool apps" wiki page for devs to chose their target from | 15:48 |
| kirma | well, that too, but then you're left with blank spots on your listening | 15:48 |
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| lardman|home | I just saw a nice use of libchamplain - showing where your photos were taken from their geotags, would make a nice addition to the image viewer | 15:48 |
| lardman|home | speaking of which, is the image viewer open source? | 15:49 |
| kirma | radio ad fingerprinting and online matching wouldn't be impossible, although that's really quite a bit towards blue-sky fantasizing | 15:49 |
| zaheerm | the image view could do with nicer transitions when flicking between images | 15:50 |
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| lardman|home | kirma: just jumping 30s forwards would be good | 15:50 |
| lardman|home | jeremiah: ping | 15:51 |
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| lardman|home | ah hang on, might have mistyped that fix of qwerty's | 15:52 |
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| lardman|home | so if I stick a modified debian package in Extras-*, do I need to add my name to the control file? | 15:54 |
| X-Fade | lardman|home: yes | 15:55 |
| lardman|home | cool, libchaimplain-4.something finally built :) | 15:55 |
| lardman|home | X-Fade: where? | 15:55 |
| X-Fade | lardman|home: The original maintainer shouldn't be bothered with bugs in maemo. | 15:55 |
| X-Fade | lardman|home: debian/control -> Maintainer: you | 15:55 |
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| lardman|home | of course, but people may want to know who he/she was? | 15:55 |
| X-Fade | lardman|home: That is what Original-Maintainer is for | 15:56 |
| lardman|home | ah, I see | 15:56 |
| lardman|home | cool | 15:56 |
| * lardman|home reckons these should be on the how to use Extras page | 15:56 | |
| lardman|home | if they aren't already | 15:56 |
| X-Fade | XSBC-Original-Maintainer | 15:56 |
| lardman|home | where does that go? | 15:57 |
| X-Fade | control | 15:57 |
| lardman|home | My control file just has "Maintainer:" | 15:57 |
| X-Fade | Yes, and add it there. | 15:57 |
| lardman|home | and swap my name into that field instead | 15:57 |
| lardman|home | ok | 15:58 |
| lardman|home | why the XSBC- stuff | 15:58 |
| lardman|home | ? | 15:58 |
| X-Fade | X is extension | 15:58 |
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| lardman|home | ok, something we've added then | 15:58 |
| lardman|home | over and above the Debian spec | 15:59 |
| X-Fade | Source, Binary, Control | 15:59 |
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| X-Fade | lardman|home: Yes, but actually ubuntu did. | 15:59 |
| lardman|home | ok | 15:59 |
| lardman|home | What about fields like "Uploaders:" ? | 16:00 |
| X-Fade | lardman|home: We don't use that | 16:00 |
| lardman|home | delete it then? | 16:00 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: ping? | 16:00 |
| X-Fade | yep | 16:00 |
| lardman|home | k, thanks | 16:00 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: pong | 16:00 |
| X-Fade | Hehe, fast internet becomes a right for Finnish people. | 16:01 |
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| X-Fade | Well, minimum of 1Mbit now, but 100Mbit in 5 years.. | 16:02 |
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| lardman|home | X-Fade: do I need to sign my packages? | 16:07 |
| X-Fade | lardman|home: No, you can, but is not required | 16:07 |
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| lardman|home | phew, no clue how to | 16:07 |
| lcuk | hey, whats the technical name for the video out - if i were going to a conference, how would I describe the projector requirements | 16:07 |
| lardman|home | composite? | 16:08 |
| lardman|home | dunno | 16:09 |
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| jeremiah | lardman|home: Pong | 16:10 |
| glass | composite should be most understood | 16:10 |
| lardman|home | jeremiah: nm, qwerty's fix did fix it, I just typed it in wrongly | 16:10 |
| lardman|home | doh! | 16:10 |
| jeremiah | w00t! | 16:10 |
| jeremiah | Qwerty magic works again. :) | 16:11 |
| lcuk | lardman, glass :) thanks | 16:11 |
| lardman|home | I've not tested it yet, I guess I should do that before trying to push to extras? | 16:11 |
| X-Fade | lardman|home: Ya think??? | 16:11 |
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| jeremiah | nah! live on the edge! | 16:11 |
| lardman|home | X-Fade: it's a lib, so testing may take some time :p | 16:11 |
| lardman|home | but yes | 16:11 |
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| X-Fade | lardman|home: just leave it in -devel then. | 16:12 |
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| lardman|home | ah, so I can push it to -devel can I so it can be tested? | 16:12 |
| X-Fade | -devel is basically a minefield | 16:12 |
| lardman|home | I should at least try it out, then push it if it seems to work. I'll do that | 16:13 |
| fiferboy | Just don't apt-get dist-upgrade with -devel enabled! | 16:14 |
| jeremiah | heh | 16:14 |
| fiferboy | (or at any other time until a flash image is available) | 16:14 |
| lardman|home | lol | 16:14 |
| lardman|home | oh dear | 16:14 |
| fiferboy | I got my tablet reflashed on sunday at the summit :| | 16:14 |
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| KMFDM | i take it no flash image is available yet>? | 16:14 |
| fiferboy | I haven't heard that it is. | 16:15 |
| X-Fade | fiferboy: So you willingly typed in 'Yes, I am sure this breaks my device' ;) | 16:15 |
| fiferboy | X-Fade: :) Actually, all the update and install stuff looked fine, but the "remove" stuff was scrolled off the top of the terminal | 16:15 |
| fiferboy | It removed 3/4 of the built-in apps before I stopped it. | 16:16 |
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| X-Fade | fiferboy: But still, everytime you have to type that line, you _really_ need to be sure you know what you are doing. | 16:16 |
| javispedro | dist-updating with diablo-extras-devel on also bricked tablet wi-fi, so nothing new. | 16:16 |
| lardman|home | oh no, Garage is going slow again, just to stop me uploading my first ever package! | 16:16 |
| derf | Whatever you do, don't approve of any action that removes libconic. | 16:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | could someone please talk me through writing a .install file w/ multiple repositories? | 16:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | it just need it for testing | 16:17 |
| derf | "Oh, look, now I don't have a network connection." | 16:17 |
| fiferboy | X-Fade: Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Although, surprisingly, I never had an issue with it in diablo | 16:17 |
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| fiferboy | lardman|home: The internet is rejecting your package | 16:18 |
| fiferboy | That sounded wrong :| | 16:18 |
| lardman|home | lol | 16:18 |
| lardman|home | sure did! | 16:18 |
| lcuk | hey lardman, i see what you mean about camera needing focus | 16:19 |
| traut | hey, 404 Error at http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/python_hildon_manual/html/ and http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/python_hildon_tutorial/html/ :( | 16:19 |
| fiferboy | I just found an open boradcasting wifi connection with an SSID of "Hidden Wifi: | 16:19 |
| lardman|home | lcuk: you tried the barcode reader? | 16:19 |
| lardman|home | seems to work better with the latest image | 16:20 |
| lcuk | yeah i did try | 16:20 |
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| lardman|home | what type of ssh keys do I need? dsa? | 16:20 |
| lcuk | i also notice the red light isnt on! | 16:20 |
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| lardman|home | not mandatory is it? | 16:20 |
| lardman|home | or is that an autofocus light, not sure | 16:21 |
| lardman|home | probably something especially designed for Japanese trains | 16:21 |
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| KMFDM | fiferboy, ive also found hidden wifi | 16:22 |
| lizardo | traut: yes, fixing that :/ | 16:22 |
| fiferboy | I haven't tried connecting to it, but I thought it was a weird name for a broadcasting connection :) | 16:22 |
| traut | lizardo: great, thanks :) | 16:22 |
| KMFDM | fiferboy, its a hidden connection the SSID isn't hidden connection | 16:23 |
| KMFDM | if you try to open it you have to identify with the real SSID | 16:23 |
| KMFDM | to connect | 16:23 |
| KMFDM | i've found 3 or 4 of them | 16:23 |
| KMFDM | around the hague | 16:23 |
| fiferboy | Ah. Strange. Never come across that before. | 16:24 |
| lardman|home | I saw one today | 16:24 |
| KMFDM | also ran into a surprising number of WEP access points | 16:24 |
| lardman|home | what does an ssh key look like then? Should it have line breaks before / symbols | 16:24 |
| lardman|home | ? | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | lardman|home: All one line | 16:24 |
| lardman|home | including the ssh-dss at the beginning? | 16:25 |
| X-Fade | lardman|home: That is the important part ;) | 16:25 |
| lardman|home | hmm, now I see | 16:25 |
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| X-Fade | lardman|home: You can also use the Extras Assistant, so you don't need a key. | 16:25 |
| lardman|home | mine has spaces in it, and it's line breaking where the spaces are | 16:25 |
| lardman|home | ah, that sounds much better | 16:26 |
| lardman|home | but I need to validate my uploadingness don't I? | 16:26 |
| X-Fade | Yes | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | murrayc: we have spent some time upgrading beagle port scripts to 5.0 btw | 16:26 |
| lardman|home | X-Fade: ok, well I've said yes, will wait for the email and start uploading | 16:27 |
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| lbt | lardman|home: rsa | 16:33 |
| lbt | IIRC dsa is the US govt one that the nsa helped make 'secure' | 16:33 |
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| * lbt still wants SyncML over IP for N900<->eGroupware | 16:34 | |
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| SpeedEvil | uucp | 16:35 |
| lardman|home | lbt: damn | 16:35 |
| lardman|home | lbt: ah well, turns out I don't need it now anyway | 16:35 |
| * lbt not 100% positive ... | 16:35 | |
| lardman|home | np | 16:35 |
| lardman|home | I'm not too bothered about the NSA reading my emails anyway ;) | 16:36 |
| * lbt more worried about lack of SyncML | 16:36 | |
| lbt | <sob> | 16:36 |
| X-Fade | lardman|home: They probably already do ;) | 16:36 |
| lardman|home | indeed, all the talk of rockets, etvc | 16:36 |
| lardman|home | and my general abuse of American spelling | 16:37 |
| lardman|home | they probably think I'm writing in code too, all those "s" and "u" | 16:37 |
| lardman|home | ;) | 16:38 |
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| clmntch | good morning | 16:38 |
| samad | barisione, hello | 16:38 |
| barisione | samad: hi | 16:39 |
| samad | how r u? | 16:39 |
| barisione | good, thanks | 16:39 |
| samad | i want to detevt miss call , unread sms uding API . is it possible using Telepathy | 16:40 |
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| samad | *detect | 16:40 |
| lardman|home | bbiab | 16:40 |
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| barisione | samad: hm | 16:41 |
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| barisione | I think event logger should do that | 16:41 |
| samad | barisione, yes i know using event logger it can do but I can't find any proper document | 16:42 |
| samad | that means API | 16:42 |
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| samad | librtcom-eventlogger-plugins-dev_0.31-1+0m5_i386.deb, i have installed librtcom-eventlogger-plugins-dev_0.31-1+0m5_i386.deb but how can i call the API need proper documents. | 16:44 |
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| barisione | isn't there a -doc package? | 16:44 |
| X-Fade | samad: This has been explained to you more than once today. | 16:44 |
| X-Fade | samad: Just look at the header files. | 16:44 |
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| * X-Fade wonders what the easiest way is to detect if an application has been optified in the package interface. | 16:46 | |
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| Stskeeps | if [ -e /opt ] ? ;) | 16:47 |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Without having to parse the package ;) | 16:47 |
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| VDVsx | X-Fade, noob question: you're parsing the controls file right ? | 16:48 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: no | 16:48 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: The repository Packages file. | 16:48 |
| samad | barisione, i didn't find any document | 16:49 |
| VDVsx | X-Fade, ah, like the app manager | 16:49 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Yeah, although I could do that during builds | 16:50 |
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| * VDVsx wonders why supertux is taking that long to show in the packages interface | 16:53 | |
| * VDVsx blames qwerty12_N810 :P | 16:53 | |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Because I just started it | 16:53 |
| VDVsx | lol | 16:54 |
| barisione | samad: I was told there is no documentation for it :'( | 16:54 |
| ptlo | samad: there isn't an explicit documentation | 16:54 |
| ptlo | as i said before, there are annotations in the header files and example code you can learn from, but there's not a manual or a guide to it | 16:55 |
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| samad | ptlo, from where i can get example code | 16:56 |
| ptlo | samad: in rtcom-eventlogger source code there's test/check_el.c which has a number of small tests with examples on how to do logging, or querying the log | 16:57 |
| samad | ptlo , ok i am checking | 16:58 |
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| Stskeeps | ptlo: so do you do anything related to maemo these days? just pondering where you fit in :) | 16:58 |
| ptlo | samad: for detecting the missed calls, what you'd need is construct a query for RTCOM_EL_EVENTTYPE_CALL_MISSED event type; for unread sms'es, you'd want a query for RTCOM_EL_SERVICE_SMS service and then check the is_read flag for every sms message | 16:58 |
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| lardman | re | 16:59 |
| samad | ptl, thanks a lot | 16:59 |
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| samad | ptl, would u plz give me the link of test/check_el.c example | 17:00 |
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| jeremiah | X-Fade: I am going to start parsing the etc/json doc to try to hook in minimae. :) | 17:02 |
| ptlo | Stskeeps, i'm working for collabora (www.collabora.co.uk), we're working on telepathy, farsight and other interesting related stuff; myself i'm on the IM related things | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | ptlo: ah - cool :) it's working quite nicely on the n900 imho | 17:03 |
| samad | ptl, would u plz give me the link of test/check_el.c example | 17:03 |
| ptlo | samad: in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/r/rtcom-eventlogger/rtcom-eventlogger_0.79-2+0m5.tar.gz tarball tests/check_el.c | 17:03 |
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| lardman | ptlo: can I ask you what is the easiest way of getting a list of online contacts then? through telepathy or through osso-abook? | 17:04 |
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| tigert | hmm | 17:05 |
| * tigert wonders if anyone has got pidgin-sipe working on maemo | 17:05 | |
| ptlo | lardman, probably through osso-abook, you get all your contacts and then filter based on presence (or possibly there's already a convenience api for that) | 17:06 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-fremantle-desktop.png | 17:06 |
| samad | ptlo, thanks | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | (was an old version of your theme) | 17:06 |
| lbt | ptlo: sounds rather interesting | 17:07 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: sexy :) | 17:07 |
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| lardman | ptlo: cool, thanks. Another question, do you happen to know where the geolocation data is added to the contacts' messages? | 17:07 |
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| ptlo | lardman, i've no idea, sorry | 17:07 |
| lardman | np | 17:08 |
| barisione | lardman: I would guess it's the presence ui | 17:08 |
| barisione | but it's just a complete guess | 17:08 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: too bad that I'll have to reduce that dark fade on the edge | 17:08 |
| X-Fade | lardman: It looks like it isn't added at all? | 17:08 |
| lardman | barisione: ok | 17:08 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: because of that desktop settings button bug | 17:08 |
| lardman | X-Fade: it can be switched on so i understand | 17:08 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Just as presence 'comment'. | 17:08 |
| lardman | yes, sorry that's what I meant | 17:09 |
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| Stskeeps | what was qwerty12_N810's status area applet called again? the brightness one | 17:14 |
| andre__ | anybody with an N900 and a MicroUSB card who can confirm https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5456 ? Thanks in advance | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | microusb? microsd you mean | 17:15 |
| andre__ | well. i was also confused | 17:15 |
| andre__ | but after googling i am not sure anymore that this really does not exist | 17:15 |
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| X-Fade | andre__: This bug is bogus | 17:16 |
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| X-Fade | It is designed to do this. | 17:16 |
| fiferboy | Stskeeps: simple-brightness-applet | 17:16 |
| X-Fade | There is a magnet in the battery cover to detect opening. | 17:16 |
| andre__ | i expected something like that | 17:16 |
| andre__ | ah. | 17:16 |
| X-Fade | It should be unmounted. | 17:16 |
| andre__ | okay. why? :-P | 17:16 |
| X-Fade | Because otherwise you remove the card without unmounting | 17:16 |
| X-Fade | == dataloss | 17:16 |
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| andre__ | i see. makes sense. i wasnt sure because if it's really about a card added by *USB* it didnt make sense | 17:17 |
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| X-Fade | But it certainly is MicroSD | 17:17 |
| andre__ | in case he really means microSD, sure | 17:17 |
| andre__ | thanks, i'll put it to moreinfo | 17:17 |
| X-Fade | DONTLOSEYOURBACKCOVER | 17:17 |
| lardman | lol @ that | 17:18 |
| andre__ | heh | 17:18 |
| javispedro | (and, when he says it's indeed microSD, WONTFIX. Even I'd agree on that) | 17:18 |
| glass | "the music on my ipod stops playing when i remove the casing and disconnect the drive" | 17:18 |
| lardman | why on Earth would you lose your back cover, other than continaully taking it off while playing music? ;) | 17:18 |
| X-Fade | It is really hard to remove the back cover. | 17:18 |
| lardman | say it's in the spec to not allow music playback while the back cover is off | 17:19 |
| X-Fade | You really are doing something wrong when it just falls off ;) | 17:19 |
| andre__ | missing a hammer to get that nail into the wall an N900 is really useful :-P | 17:19 |
| lardman | can we not comment on the bug before it's WONTFIX_BUGGER_OFF'd? | 17:19 |
| lardman | I'd love to know why he needs this feature | 17:20 |
| andre__ | you can always comment, even now that i've closed it as invalid. just do it | 17:20 |
| lcuk | damn damn damn damn damn battery flat | 17:21 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: i'm going to hit you if you ever claim you can't code. | 17:21 |
| javispedro | ++Stskeeps | 17:21 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: we'll never see him in person again | 17:21 |
| lcuk | lol Stskeeps he cant code | 17:22 |
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| lardman | go lcuk, needle him into admitting it in a fit of rage ;) | 17:23 |
| javispedro | does anyone really need any extra proof? ;) | 17:23 |
| lardman | hmm, fm radio needs to use RDS to decide channel names | 17:25 |
| lcuk | it sends out RDS in transmit mode | 17:25 |
| lcuk | i think thats what it is | 17:25 |
| lcuk | it shows "NOKIA" as the channel name | 17:26 |
| Stskeeps | can be adjusted though, afaik | 17:26 |
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| lardman | lcuk: nah, it should listen for the RDS name of the tuned channel, talking about the receiver | 17:26 |
| javispedro | well, don't think "NOKIA" is hardcoded on the firmware ;P | 17:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Also traffic announcements and stuff would be nice | 17:27 |
| javispedro | so you think it can't listen to RDS, or just needing more info? | 17:27 |
| lardman | it can listen to RDS, just needs to be used | 17:27 |
| wazd | http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/15/nokia-n920-leaked-keyboardless-and-harboring-a-capacitive-touch/ | 17:28 |
| wazd | LOL! | 17:28 |
| zaheerm | :) | 17:28 |
| javispedro | there goes engadget credibility | 17:28 |
| wazd | n920 will run Bora! | 17:28 |
| Stskeeps | engadget fail | 17:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Damn that's a _huge_ screen | 17:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | would be nice | 17:29 |
| X-Fade | Lol | 17:29 |
| SpeedEvil | The device would be _tiny_ if that was true. | 17:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Alas... | 17:29 |
| javispedro | and 500 megapixel auto-focus lens | 17:29 |
| javispedro | er... | 17:30 |
| lardman | hmm, can't see that url | 17:30 |
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| wazd | javispedro: 500 GIGApixel | 17:30 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, i'm looking for testers :) | 17:31 |
| wazd | ahaha, they deleted it :) | 17:31 |
| javispedro | wazd: the "article" actually says 500 megapixels. I can't believe someone read that without thinking wtf wtf wtf wtf. | 17:31 |
| javispedro | "highlighted the need for a substantial webkit browser optimized kernel" | 17:31 |
| * javispedro 's head implodes . | 17:32 | |
| Stskeeps | hah | 17:32 |
| jjrv | I got a bluetooth keyboard, gcc, ocaml and haxe working on the n900 for any c/ocaml/flash development needs. this may be pointless :D | 17:33 |
| javispedro | as for the rest of the article. where, every poll on tmo said a device without keyboard would be released, and nokia itself said capacitive. | 17:33 |
| javispedro | s/where/well | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | jjrv, you belong in same category as lcuk.. | 17:33 |
| SpeedEvil | jjrv: naah. | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | utterly insane. | 17:33 |
| jeremiah | qwerty12_N810: If the Maemo summit is in London next year, would you be there? | 17:33 |
| javispedro | London! | 17:34 |
| jeremiah | IRC RT of sjgadsby | 17:34 |
| SpeedEvil | jjrv: It means that all you need is a little solar panel, a phone contract, and you can live in a box and do dev work. | 17:34 |
| * lcuk is far from insane | 17:34 | |
| wazd | jeremiah: better right in his house :D | 17:34 |
| lcuk | i just want a simple dev env for my tablet | 17:34 |
| jeremiah | wazd: lol | 17:34 |
| VRe | I try to follow up this /opt discussion, what I can not follow is what kinds of persistent memory there is on n900 and their sizes. Does anyone know? | 17:34 |
| Myrtti | lcuk: bonkers | 17:34 |
| wazd | jeremiah: to be sure :) | 17:34 |
| javispedro | wazd: no, he'd say he needs to go to college and will miss half the presentations. | 17:34 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: ping | 17:35 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, one of the things you setup mer for was to allow ondevice development | 17:35 |
| javispedro | VRe: 256MiB OneNAND chip used for bootloader, kernel, and mountpoint for / | 17:35 |
| timeless_mbp | jeremiah: ping | 17:35 |
| jeremiah | timeless_mbp: pong | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, yes, still insane :P handy sometimes | 17:35 |
| javispedro | VRe: + 32 GiB eMMC, with 2 partitions: /home 2 GiB ext2, /media/mmc1 (AFAIK) 30 GiB FAT32 | 17:35 |
| VRe | javispedro: thanks | 17:36 |
| lcuk | getting handier by the way | 17:36 |
| lcuk | day | 17:36 |
| javispedro | VRe: and /opt bind mount/symlink to /home/opt | 17:36 |
| jjrv | SpeedEvil, I'm using a device to charge the n900 from aa batteries in case the solar panel doesn't work | 17:36 |
| Myrtti | BONKERS | 17:37 |
| VRe | javispedro: huh.. thats a hack :) | 17:37 |
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| javispedro | VRe: yes. if you've been reading the mailing lists you'll have seen the many problems this weird setup is creating and going to create. | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | right, how is Tear for fremantle coming along? | 17:37 |
| * Disconnect is doing the peepee-dance waiting for a tmob-n900 announcement :) anyone wanna swap a 770 and 800 for a 900? they're "special", they were both purchased when compusa screwed up release dates :) | 17:38 | |
| VRe | javispedro: yeah, and I could not figure out what created the situation but now its more clear | 17:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: so... | 17:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i've gotten my package pretty close to polished | 17:40 |
| timeless_mbp | the only thing i really need is the control panel plugin | 17:41 |
| * timeless_mbp looks for qwerty12_N810 | 17:41 | |
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| VRe | javispedro: is /home/user/MyDocs a symlink to /mnt/mmc1 ? | 17:43 |
| javispedro | ah, true, I was wrong, FAT32 partition is mounted as /home/user/MyDocs actually. | 17:44 |
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| mgedmin | VRe: no | 17:44 |
| mgedmin | yes | 17:45 |
| mgedmin | 28 gig | 17:45 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: do a cat /proc/mounts and you'll find out :) | 17:45 |
| mgedmin | the partition table is kinda weird: 31 metric gigabytes total, 2 for /home, 28 for /home/user/MyDocs, 0.7 for swap | 17:45 |
| * mgedmin did cat /proc/partitions | 17:46 | |
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| lardman | Jaffa: Hermes worked this time through, good work | 17:46 |
| VRe | is eMMc or OneNAND faster? | 17:47 |
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| javispedro | OneNAND is said to be faster (see one of the firsts posts in the /opt discussion) | 17:48 |
| VRe | sooo many mails :) | 17:48 |
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| VRe | I'm combining "facts" together, maybe I'll post this when I finnish | 17:49 |
| VRe | onenand being slower would could explain why the gpodder takes longer to load | 17:51 |
| javispedro | onenand uses ubifs which is compressed. | 17:51 |
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| VRe | javispedro: root or all the partitions | 17:53 |
| javispedro | VRe: /. | 17:53 |
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| mgedmin | wait what? VRe, onenand is faster, not slower | 17:57 |
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| ab | VRe, eMMC is slower | 17:57 |
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| javispedro | that's what I said, but compression could potentially slow down some operations (explaining the behaviour he notes with gpodder) | 17:59 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: Speed up | 17:59 |
| VRe | ab: is it due to the compression making the writing seem to go faster? | 17:59 |
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| ab | VRe, on onenand? | 18:00 |
| javispedro | for example, gvm is really slow using jffs2 in n810 (basically it spends quite a bit of time compressing 16 MiB file). | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: even if it is external frame buffer it should be able to drive simple GL at least i would guess? | 18:00 |
| X-Fade | compressed files are being read faster. | 18:00 |
| VRe | or because direct writing is just faster - is there hard numbers? | 18:00 |
| javispedro | VRe: hw is faster. | 18:00 |
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| VRe | So, OneNAND faster to read (compression helps also), writing faster too (but not if dumping big blobs) ? | 18:02 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: certainly | 18:02 |
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| lardman | Stskeeps: my point was that the PowerVR is probably not limited in any particular way, it's just how fast the framebuffer can send data to the LCD controller that will be the limit | 18:03 |
| lardman | but that's always been there | 18:03 |
| lcuk | it just means we can render 3d data efficiently :) | 18:04 |
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| Stskeeps | lardman: yeah, even Xomap is suffering under that | 18:05 |
| lardman | people seem to keep coming out and saying something along the lines of "the powerVR won't be able to do this that the other because of screen size" | 18:05 |
| lardman | but that is probably immaterial | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | i've heard otherwise | 18:05 |
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| Stskeeps | stability thing does sound plausible though | 18:06 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, we probably won't get hardcore 3d interfaces but simple clutter i will be happy with;; | 18:07 |
| lardman | people need to see the separation between the rendering to the RAM framebuffer and the speed of screen updates, which are not linked | 18:07 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, on n810 compositing will take a hit if its tried | 18:07 |
| lardman | well as long as the low level stuff is exposed I guess we can write our own | 18:08 |
| javispedro | dunno. "hardcode 3d interfaces" might render to a 128x128 area, while clutter will need 800x480 fb updated | 18:08 |
| lardman | lcuk: no it won't | 18:08 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: we have compositing in xomap already and it doesn't take a hit.. it has the two buffers still | 18:08 |
| lardman | lcuk: compositing is done before the LCD framebuffer, so it won;t take a hit due to the bandwidth issue. It may do due to general processor speed though | 18:08 |
| lcuk | lardman, to composit, you must first use the CPU to render the surfaces, which must then be converted to textures to then be composited | 18:08 |
| lcuk | of course it will be a hit | 18:08 |
| javispedro | and the conversion is probably done in software. | 18:09 |
| lardman | ok, but not related to the point at hand | 18:09 |
| lcuk | its part of the pipeline | 18:09 |
| lardman | brb, have to grab a book from the lib | 18:09 |
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| Stskeeps | either way, we'll see how it runs when we get it | 18:09 |
| * lcuk nods | 18:09 | |
| Stskeeps | of course i don't expect all transitions to run well | 18:09 |
| lcuk | will be good to play lotsa javispedro optimized games | 18:10 |
| javispedro | haha | 18:10 |
| javispedro | we'll see, i just have stupid ideas in mind which might even be nonsense | 18:10 |
| lcuk | javispedro, like i said, that single triangle of yours is gonna be useful :P | 18:10 |
| lcuk | stupid ideas are the best :) | 18:10 |
| javispedro | I mean really stupid. I still don't have the book. | 18:10 |
| lcuk | work within the limitations and excellence can occur - look at how good the games for original atari were ;) | 18:11 |
| lcuk | bbl | 18:11 |
| lcuk | get a paypal on your blog, ill put towards it | 18:12 |
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| javispedro | lcuk: I don't like vaporware, and I have nothing to sell yet :) | 18:12 |
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| glass | lardman: e90 has pretty nice screensize and runs stuff pretty nicely with it's omap2 | 18:13 |
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| Stskeeps | dneary: curious, who did you run into? | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | (re your business case discussion) | 18:16 |
| dneary | Stskeeps: Ah | 18:16 |
| dneary | I don't know if that's confidential or not | 18:16 |
| dneary | I'll assume not | 18:16 |
| dneary | ST Ericsson | 18:16 |
| * mgedmin wishes Conboy had Undo/Redo (with Ctrl+Z/Ctrl+Y) | 18:17 | |
| Stskeeps | ah, someone with developer boards | 18:17 |
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| dneary | They're primarily using Android, since many of their clients are going to be using that, but they also want to have an open, customisable distribution which can exploit the hardware, and won't take months to get working properly on their platforms. Previously they used Poky | 18:17 |
| lardman | glass: my point exactly, I don't think there will be a real limitation, other than the screen update rate which is not caused by the 3D hw | 18:17 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: we're moving in that direction - marvell,foxconn - and TI is opening up on their developer boards too (zoom2, beagle) | 18:17 |
| dneary | lardman: By the way, I'm fielding quite a few questions looking for video | 18:18 |
| dneary | Stskeeps: Who is "we"? | 18:18 |
| lardman | dneary: how do you mean? | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: in this particular case i mean mer | 18:18 |
| dneary | lardman: "when will video be available?" | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | and maemo/mer is a really nice platform to start on arm with - feels just like developing for ubuntu | 18:18 |
| lardman | dneary: like recording or decoding? | 18:18 |
| dneary | Been asked for 4 specific presentations, and 3 times more generally | 18:18 |
| JamieBennett | dneary: I'm in Grenoble at the moment and to be honest the video is terible but I'll do what I can with it at the weekend | 18:19 |
| dneary | I'm assuming this is something in YouTube or Vimeo | 18:19 |
| lardman | ah I see | 18:19 |
| lardman | integrating it | 18:19 |
| dneary | JamieBennett: I guess we'll run into each other tomorrow then | 18:19 |
| dneary | Weird that | 18:19 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes people | 18:19 | |
| JamieBennett | ah: your at the ELC? | 18:19 |
| dneary | JamieBennett: I live in Lyon | 18:19 |
| * lardman settles down to read a book about FE | 18:19 | |
| dneary | I was in Grenoble yesterday, and heading tomorrow too | 18:19 |
| JamieBennett | dneary: Coming to conference? | 18:19 |
| dneary | But today I had way too much to do after the summit | 18:19 |
| dneary | JamieBennett: Yup | 18:20 |
| JamieBennett | :) | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: but about professional support.. i have no idea how to handle that | 18:20 |
| dneary | Stskeeps: Set up a company :) | 18:20 |
| dneary | Or come work for someone else | 18:20 |
| JamieBennett | dneary: Back on topic, the video is bad, audio is bad and some is missing. I'll start uploading what I have Saturday night/Sunday | 18:20 |
| dneary | (like me?) | 18:20 |
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| JamieBennett | lol | 18:20 |
| dneary | JamieBennett: How bad is bad? | 18:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: do you know where the sources are for hildon-locale-selector? | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: OBS when it's not dead | 18:21 |
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| mgedmin | what does ctrl+shift+n do in maemo 5? it blanks the screen (and unblanks when you press it again) | 18:21 |
| JamieBennett | 10% of the video screen realestate is the speakers, the rest is the curtains/audio is hard to hear e.t.c | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: ah, i do have a company and my role is part maemo.org part other right now | 18:21 |
| timeless_mbp | it isn't in a bzr repo? | 18:21 |
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| dneary | The niche is "we can get up & running faster than OpenEmbedded, and we're more stable" | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | ah, yes | 18:22 |
| dneary | That's the niche OH & Poky filled | 18:22 |
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| JamieBennett | *cough*, ubuntu, *cough* | 18:22 |
| * JamieBennett goes hide | 18:22 | |
| dneary | JamieBennett: Do you get slides at all? | 18:22 |
| JamieBennett | dneary: for the summit I have none | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | JamieBennett: one property of ubuntu we do like, yes | 18:23 |
| dneary | JamieBennett: How big is the Ubuntu base install now? | 18:23 |
| JamieBennett | I'm hoping they are online somewhere | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | mer is 150mb compressed, which is nice | 18:23 |
| dneary | JamieBennett: Only on a case-by-case basis | 18:23 |
| dneary | OE can get down to *really* small | 18:23 |
| * JamieBennett hasn't got the specifics of the base install | 18:24 | |
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| dneary | Working system (kernel + console + ssh server) in something like 20MB | 18:24 |
| JamieBennett | dneary: If you want *really* small then no, Ubuntu isn't the tool for that | 18:24 |
| sulx | archlinux <3 | 18:24 |
| JamieBennett | 1GB+ systems, its great | 18:24 |
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| Stskeeps | dneary: anything really embedded, emdebian/OE yes, - anything around 256mb flash/128mb ram and we have a good maemo/mer target | 18:24 |
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| dneary | JamieBennett: My first Linux desktop had a 256MB hard disk | 18:25 |
| dneary | Red Hat 5 | 18:25 |
| JamieBennett | dneary: my first had a 40mb disk :P | 18:25 |
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| dneary | And the OS install only took about 40% of that | 18:26 |
| sulx | my first 640mb =( | 18:26 |
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| dneary | sulx: Youngster | 18:26 |
| JamieBennett | dneary: kernel 1.0 on Slackware, I still have the cdrom from 1995. | 18:26 |
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| dneary | I didn't get started too early - I was 21, and that was at the start of my postgrad. I still remember the processor - it was a 33MHz processor with a turbo button to drive it up to 66MHz | 18:27 |
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| dneary | And I mostly used it for running XFree & remote apps | 18:27 |
| dneary | And the intranet web server | 18:27 |
| dneary | :) | 18:27 |
| slonopotamus | oooh, turbo button | 18:29 |
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| JamieBennett | It took me a week to install that Slakware cdrom it had so many issues with my hardware | 18:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | eww | 18:29 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 18:29 | |
| timeless_mbp | why did qwerty have to use GPL3? | 18:29 |
| * slonopotamus overclocked 486 from 66 to 100mhz :) | 18:29 | |
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| Stskeeps | dneary: either way, we're going to expand our vendor offering over the next while, so if you hear more, i'm always up for demoing what we're capable of. | 18:30 |
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| dneary | Stskeeps: I'm guessing that ST would take your call :) | 18:31 |
| traut | wondering how to implement blue lines in TreeView (just like in contacts application) with pygtk | 18:33 |
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| traut | i'm trying to copy contacts application UI | 18:34 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Much better error reporting in git, too :) | 18:34 |
| lardman | :) | 18:34 |
| lardman | did you tweak it, or was it just poor network connection? | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | traut: interesting, open source? | 18:35 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: hey, do you know anything about control panel applets in maemo5? | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: same as in diablo | 18:35 |
| timeless_mbp | ok | 18:35 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 18:36 | |
| timeless_mbp | why did qwerty12_N810 have to use gpl3? :( | 18:36 |
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| traut | Stskeeps: just some prototyping. I'll share results if I'll make it | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: so nokia couldn't steal his work without paying him large sums of money? ;p | 18:36 |
| lardman | lol | 18:36 |
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| Stskeeps | joys of dealing with chinese engineers: Ding and You. | 18:38 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 18:38 | |
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| lardman | Anyone here using CUDA on an Active Directory Windows machine? Am looking for a reason to not be Active-Directoy-ised | 18:39 |
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| microlith | slonopotamus: turbo button? | 18:43 |
| RurouniJones | Evening all. I don't suppose there is a list of built in /shipped with applications(Current or planned) for maemo 5 is there? | 18:43 |
| microlith | whoa, go scrollback | 18:43 |
| timeless_mbp | do control panel .desktop files have a way to pass arguments to their execute() function? | 18:43 |
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| slonopotamus | microlith, turbo button! | 18:44 |
| qwerty12 | timeless_mbp: If you're looking at my awful CPA code, still, feel free to use whatever license you wish | 18:45 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12: since i only need like 4 lines, i'm just writing from the maemo docs | 18:45 |
| timeless_mbp | the reboot thing really should be part of the other script :) | 18:45 |
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| qwerty12 | jeremiah: regarding Maemo Summit in London: Hell yeah! :) | 18:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | ... right, can .desktop files set arguments for control panel applets? :) | 18:48 |
| lardman | qwerty12: would be cheap atm if paid for in Euros | 18:48 |
| javispedro | yeah, I want to visit london | 18:48 |
| javispedro | now make it in february. | 18:48 |
| javispedro | ;) | 18:48 |
| timeless_mbp | 58 * This function will be called by the hildon_cp_pluginsavestaet() function. | 18:49 |
| * timeless_mbp loves Nokia Comments (tm) | 18:49 | |
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| zash | staet? | 18:49 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: Yeah, I hear the GBP is doing awesome... | 18:50 |
| timeless_mbp | zash: sure, it's a word, right? | 18:50 |
| timeless_mbp | oh wait... | 18:50 |
| lardman | yeah, makes going abroad pretty pricey! | 18:50 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: I think it's an evil scheme by the British Tourist Board ;) | 18:50 |
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| lardman | probably, tho Blackpool still needs work ;) | 18:51 |
| jeremiah | qwerty12: Rock on dude! | 18:52 |
| jeremiah | We'll have to push for that next year | 18:52 |
| mgedmin | fix for apt-cache policy brokenness (can't tell extras from extras-devel from extras-testing from sdk repo from tools repo): http://pastie.org/656164 | 18:52 |
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| lardman | jeremiah: *not* Blackpool | 18:53 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: upload that to extras-devel please :) | 18:53 |
| jeremiah | heh, I'm not pushing for Blackpool - now Liverpool, *that* would be fun | 18:54 |
| javispedro | also today I noticed apt-get source libclutter-0.8 downloads the source for clutter 1.0 for some weird reason. | 18:54 |
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| mgedmin | javispedro: suggest a descriptive package name please | 18:54 |
| javispedro | so you need to force the 0.8 source version with apt-get source clutter=0.8 | 18:54 |
| * mgedmin waits for the obvious suggesting | 18:54 | |
| jeremiah | apt-cache-fixer | 18:54 |
| javispedro | whence is good enough. | 18:54 |
| mgedmin | source of the 'whence' python script: http://pastie.org/656168 | 18:54 |
| mgedmin | does a 30-line script deserve its own package? | 18:55 |
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| javispedro | a extras-devel non user/* package, sure. | 18:55 |
| RST38h | Whoever else wants handwriting recogntion back, vote for this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5484 | 18:56 |
| d-fens_ | hi how long does a n900 run more or less? | 18:57 |
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| Xisdibik | none d-fens_ , n900's dont have legs | 18:57 |
| javispedro | RST38h: not a deal killer for me (hwr in n8x0 was awful), but still interesting. | 18:57 |
| slonopotamus | mgedmin, own garage project, coding guidelines, release cycle, mailing list and support forums. ah, and logo | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | downloadable skins | 18:58 |
| javispedro | register .com domain | 18:58 |
| RST38h | javis: Same here, but n8x0 hwr was pretty good (relatively of course) and I have found that many people use it, at least on 5800 | 18:58 |
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| d-fens_ | well ok | 18:58 |
| javispedro | RST38h: you clearly haven't used a Palm ;) | 18:58 |
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| slonopotamus | not saying about manpages, update notifier and bug tracker | 18:58 |
| RST38h | javis: Palm hwr sucked. Had to learn the moves. | 18:58 |
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| javispedro | the only non-useless hwr I've ever soon. | 18:59 |
| javispedro | *seen. | 18:59 |
| d-fens_ | nobody here of those pre n900 owners? | 18:59 |
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| javispedro | perfect for "on the go" long writings. | 18:59 |
| mgedmin | hm, conboy 0.6.0-alpha9 was pulled from the repos | 18:59 |
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| mgedmin | d-fens_: a lot of us here have pre n900s, I'm sure | 18:59 |
| RurouniJones | Anyon e know the status of maemo with regards to Kanji/Chinese/Japanese input? | 19:00 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: my pre is more pre than your pre | 19:00 |
| d-fens_ | and could the gestures be changed to avoid the swirl thing to a more intuitive gesture ? | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | yes, the pre-ness of the pre's varies | 19:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | RurouniJones: The n900 chinese version comes with a USB 1.4*1.8m keyboard. | 19:00 |
| RurouniJones | There is a chinese version? Hmm that was news to me | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | d-fens_: there's a more intuitive gesture for your convenience: pushing the '+' button | 19:00 |
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| d-fens_ | mgedmin: so how long does the battery last more or less | 19:00 |
| RST38h | the USB wire is made to resemble a thick golden chain | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | 6 hours of heavy use, more or less | 19:01 |
| mgedmin | I charge mine twice a day | 19:01 |
| RST38h | 3 hours of video | 19:01 |
| d-fens_ | and normal use? | 19:01 |
| mgedmin | mine hasn't seen normal use yet | 19:01 |
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| RST38h | It lasts through a day in normal use | 19:01 |
| mgedmin | still new and shiny and alluring and I keep playing with it | 19:01 |
| slonopotamus | RST38h, will be fixed in harmattan? :) | 19:01 |
| RST38h | May even last until the morning but I am not sure | 19:01 |
| * microlith ponders if hildon is compatible with SCIM or has its own input system | 19:01 | |
| slonopotamus | RST38h, hand recognition, i mean :) | 19:01 |
| RurouniJones | That was what I was wondering microlith | 19:01 |
| RST38h | slonopotamus: Ah, that | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | microlith: own.. but gtk immodules should work | 19:02 |
| RST38h | slonopotamus: No idea, there are mixed signals | 19:02 |
| d-fens_ | hm thats not sufficient for real life | 19:02 |
| solarion_ | dude. My crappy release is #21 in the charts atm | 19:02 |
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| Solarion | I should make it less crappy | 19:02 |
| RurouniJones | Right, now I need to bug the Japanese Phone networks to get the N900 integrated | 19:02 |
| mgedmin | anybody else irritated by updates without changelogs? | 19:02 |
| javispedro | RST38h: 3 hours of video :P | 19:02 |
| microlith | RurouniJones: should work on Softbank, dunno to what degree | 19:03 |
| VRe | mgedmin: yap, I filed a bug once.. :) | 19:03 |
| RST38h | javis: But let us give n900 a credit, it can handle BOTH Xvid and A2dp at the same time! | 19:03 |
| javispedro | that's because of the dsp being powered? I mean, how many hours with the cpu busylooping | 19:03 |
| mgedmin | pwsafe 1.5.5 is out, but I've no clue what changed since 1.5.4a -- the .deb comes without a /usr/share/doc/pwsafe/changelog.Debian file | 19:03 |
| microlith | there was a post on the forums a while back about Emobile(?) but their frequency band was questionable | 19:03 |
| RurouniJones | microlith: From what I can tell it should work apart from the Softbank email | 19:03 |
| microlith | RurouniJones: what's up with softbank's e-mail? | 19:03 |
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| RurouniJones | Softbank refuse to give out details about how it works for compatibility. If you don't use a softbank branded phone you can get stuffed basically. | 19:04 |
| microlith | ah, why does that not surprise me | 19:04 |
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| lardman | bbl | 19:04 |
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| RurouniJones | However a new law may come into force in 2011 (speedy) forcing the companies to disclose this information | 19:05 |
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| microlith | that is speedy | 19:05 |
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| microlith | and good | 19:05 |
| RurouniJones | And since I use my phone for mail more than phoning... | 19:05 |
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| bingo | hi! I see that texas instrument will release soon the driver for powervr on N800 and N810, doeas it mean that we will run maemo5 on N8xx? | 19:06 |
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| Xisdibik | RurouniJones: What japanese doesnt use their phone for mailing more tha phoning :P | 19:06 |
| RST38h | No, it will run Maemo4 in 3D! | 19:06 |
| javispedro | yes! | 19:06 |
| bingo | with clutter like maemo5? | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | bingo: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-fremantle-desktop.png (wiki.maemo.org/Mer) | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | it wont be maemo5 but would have many of the same apis. | 19:07 |
| RurouniJones | Hehe, quite. I am also iffy about the softbank charges for data usage. If you use their built-in email to to other softbank phones it is free. | 19:07 |
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| microlith | RurouniJones: e-mail isn't part of a data-plan? | 19:07 |
| Xisdibik | RurouniJones: Japanese phone plans are very wierd | 19:08 |
| Xisdibik | erm | 19:08 |
| Xisdibik | that was to microlith | 19:08 |
| RurouniJones | Hehe | 19:08 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: this reminds me. Can we still expect Nokia to distribute Fremantle "nokia-apps" for n8x0? | 19:08 |
| microlith | I know they're weird, but -that- weird? | 19:08 |
| RST38h | Anyone has sample code for using proximity sensor? | 19:08 |
| Hydroxide | mgedmin: is pwsafe a port of PasswordSafe or something entirely original to maemo? | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: who knows.. | 19:08 |
| microlith | admittedly, I only had au with a cheapo sanyo phone back in 2003 | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: i was surprised to hear it was even in SDK | 19:08 |
| Xisdibik | Ive seen interviews with japanese people who have no issue with the fact that their phone bill is like $500 USD | 19:08 |
| RurouniJones | Using their built-in email software is free and not counted towards data. senidng to nonsoftbank phones costs but not counted towards data usage (I think) | 19:08 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Btw, you are a python guy, aren't you? | 19:08 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: let's focus on the low level stuff first, then we can add what is actually interesting :P | 19:08 |
| Xisdibik | RurouniJones: doesnt NTT DoCoMo also use 2100 Mhz? | 19:09 |
| mgedmin | Hydroxide: I think so; it's compatible with Bruce Schneier's PasswordSafe databases anyway | 19:09 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: python yes | 19:09 |
| Hydroxide | yeah, cool | 19:09 |
| RurouniJones | I am not sure on technical stuff like that. Probably | 19:09 |
| microlith | I thought DoCoMo was CDMA | 19:09 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: :) | 19:09 |
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| Xisdibik | microlith: cant be, my phone connected to them when i was in Japan last january | 19:09 |
| mgedmin | haven't played with Python on maemo as much as I feel I ought to | 19:09 |
| Xisdibik | and my phone only got 850, 1900, 2100 Mhz | 19:09 |
| microlith | Xisdibik: hmm | 19:09 |
| Xisdibik | for HSDPA | 19:10 |
| Hydroxide | mgedmin: in Debian at least, changelog.Debian.gz is usually for debian packaging changes, though it always contains a stanza for every new debian revision. it's different for packages that are native to Debian without a separate upstream | 19:10 |
| RurouniJones | They were all tripping over each other for the iPhone. I ask about the N900 and get a "Whuh? Ooooh Nokia, they don't do Japan" | 19:10 |
| Xisdibik | though more often than not i was on Softbanks 3G, as they have more coverage, or stronger coverage or maybe they just have a better deal with AT&T | 19:10 |
| Xisdibik | if you can wait it out RurouniJones | 19:11 |
| Xisdibik | ill be heading to Japan in January | 19:11 |
| Xisdibik | and can tell u how it runs | 19:11 |
| Xisdibik | wont know for data charges though | 19:11 |
| Xisdibik | as i will be on Tmo USA | 19:11 |
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| RurouniJones | Ooooo | 19:11 |
| RurouniJones | I am in no huge rush. | 19:11 |
| Xisdibik | which has contracts with Softbank and NTT DoCoMo | 19:11 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 19:11 | |
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| * timeless_mbp kicks the idiots who "designed" hildon control panel | 19:11 | |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Then you may be interested in automating this: http://handphone-solution.blogspot.com/2009/07/direct-download-for-ovi-maps-30-without.html | 19:12 |
| RurouniJones | And that info would be very very useful. I know there are a reasonable number of people interested in the N900 out here and would like that info. | 19:12 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Looks like a perfect task for a small Python program | 19:12 |
| Xisdibik | RurouniJones: what part of japan are you in? | 19:12 |
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| RurouniJones | Tokyo | 19:12 |
| Xisdibik | I got NTT DoCoMo signal mainly down on Kyushu | 19:12 |
| Xisdibik | and Softbank everywhere else | 19:12 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: does that actually work in N900? *relief* | 19:13 |
| RST38h | javis: surprisingly yes | 19:13 |
| Xisdibik | Well I will be in Tokyo in January | 19:13 |
| microlith | RurouniJones: where about in tokyo are you? | 19:13 |
| RST38h | javis: of course, the bug report ("no documented way to download maps offline") has been demoted to enhancement and forgotten but at least there is this | 19:13 |
| RurouniJones | I work in Shimbashi and live north of hte city. | 19:13 |
| microlith | ahh | 19:14 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: if it can be done so easily it's just a matter of python script/win32 gui app so I'd say let the bug rest. | 19:14 |
| Xisdibik | microlith: btw, i voted for the handwriting thing, or will be momentarily rather | 19:14 |
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| RST38h | javis: Basically yes, although I am unsure about how to remove maps | 19:14 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: I'm a very lazy person, unfortunately | 19:14 |
| Xisdibik | or wait | 19:14 |
| microlith | Xisdibik: handwriting thing? | 19:14 |
| Xisdibik | that was RST38h who posted it | 19:14 |
| Xisdibik | sorry | 19:14 |
| Xisdibik | ;) | 19:14 |
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| RurouniJones | And since it is 1am here, I better head to bed. Thanks for answering the questions. Need to look at the Maemo SDK this weekend. | 19:15 |
| Xisdibik | RurouniJones: yea, its 1:15am there ;) go to sleep | 19:15 |
| microlith | handwriting input for kanji would be nice... | 19:15 |
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| Xisdibik | or for hiragana / katakana | 19:15 |
| Xisdibik | or can the n900 do that already? | 19:15 |
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| * RurouniJones mutters darkly about 1 hour commutes and sardine trains | 19:15 | |
| RurouniJones | Toodles | 19:15 |
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| mgedmin | RST38h: if I didn't have a local SIM card, I would be very interesting in precaching the maps before I go outdoors | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone here familiar w/ how HAM manages dependencies? | 19:15 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: well, it usually strikes you when you travel abroad | 19:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, like apt, but more cautiously. | 19:16 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: locally, I have no problem with it, does not eat much traffic | 19:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, I think there's a doc outlining it in the CVS. | 19:16 |
| RST38h | rm_me: moo | 19:16 |
| rm_you | back in the world of the livimg... | 19:16 |
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| rm_you | *living | 19:16 |
| rm_you | sup rst | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | so is there any way for me to write package X such that it tries to get Y to also install unless Y's dependencies can't be satisfied? | 19:16 |
| RST38h | you call THIS a world of living? | 19:16 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: I land in Gothenburg Landvetter airport, pick up an envelope with apartment keys at the information desk, and find a SIM card with a 3g data plan inside | 19:17 |
| mgedmin | imagine my joy | 19:17 |
| timeless_mbp | short of creating a Z which doesn't do anything and making X depend on Y|Z | 19:17 |
| rm_you | well, i'm done being passed out from travel and jetlag <_< | 19:17 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: I land in Thessaloniki airport, and I am fucked. | 19:17 |
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| rm_you | lol | 19:17 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Imagine my lack of surprise at this fact. | 19:17 |
| microlith | Xisdibik: both, I don't think there's support for any JP input yet | 19:18 |
| mgedmin | timeless_mbp: with ordinary *modern* apt-get you could use Recommends: Y | 19:18 |
| mgedmin | dunno if HAM uses the same logic | 19:18 |
| mgedmin | my guess would be: not | 19:18 |
| timeless_mbp | i only care about HAM :) | 19:18 |
| javispedro | then you're fscked. | 19:18 |
| javispedro | cause it ignores recommends. | 19:18 |
| mgedmin | maybe Z could be a virtual package? | 19:18 |
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| Xisdibik | RST38h: can u link that handwriting input bugreport again, i cant find it anymore | 19:18 |
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| RST38h | a moment | 19:19 |
| mgedmin | would Depends: Y|Z even try to install Y if it found that Z was already installed? | 19:19 |
| mgedmin | probably not | 19:19 |
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| mgedmin | empty Z package seems to be the only solution | 19:19 |
| RST38h | Xis: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5484 | 19:19 |
| Xisdibik | microlith: id love to see something similar to Microsofts IME for Japanese input | 19:19 |
| mgedmin | and that assumes HAM handles Y|Z in the usual way | 19:19 |
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| microlith | Xisdibik: yeah, always wanted that on Linux but could never find something like it | 19:20 |
| timeless_mbp | Xisdibik: keep in mind that the hand writing recognition was commercial | 19:20 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia had to license it | 19:20 |
| mgedmin | and it didn't work well | 19:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | dropping it reduces the cost for the user | 19:20 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, and yeah, what mgedmin said :) | 19:20 |
| RST38h | The question is about the license terms | 19:20 |
| microlith | I think keyboard input would be a higher priority | 19:20 |
| mgedmin | I suppose it worked acceptably for the people who want it back | 19:20 |
| rm_you | timeless: i think my phone pulled numbers off your sim, cause i dailed 'voicemail' contact and got some recording in suomi :P | 19:20 |
| timeless_mbp | rm_you: heh | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | my sim should only have at most voicemail | 19:21 |
| rm_you | lol, not a problem :P just funny | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | well um | 19:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | technically expensive :o | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: what do you mean? | 19:21 |
| Xisdibik | microlith: i completely agree, keyboard input would be best | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | hypothetically it was probably a per unit license fee | 19:22 |
| timeless_mbp | for a binary blob | 19:22 |
| rm_you | meh, one minute is less than a dollar imo | 19:22 |
| Xisdibik | microlith: are you from japan as well or something? | 19:22 |
| microlith | Xisdibik: no, just been studying the language and did exchange back in 2003 | 19:22 |
| * mgedmin finally learns the reason for using python 2.5 instead of 2.6 in maemo 5: some silly core sdk package conflicts with 2.6 | 19:22 | |
| * GeneralAntilles still wants Xmodmap. :( | 19:22 | |
| RST38h | It may be licensed so that Nokia pays per unit manufactured, per OS version, or unlimited | 19:22 |
| crashanddie | I want PySide or PyQt | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: are you sure? xmodmap is weak, xkb is flexible | 19:22 |
| RST38h | s/per OS version/per product/ | 19:22 |
| infobot | RST38h meant: It may be licensed so that Nokia pays per unit manufactured, per product, or unlimited | 19:22 |
| Xisdibik | microlith: ah ok, ive been studying on my own, and have been there in 2009 2008 2007 and 1988 | 19:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, well, I want to change some keybindings. | 19:23 |
| Xisdibik | not for exchange though | 19:23 |
| Xisdibik | just for sighseeing | 19:23 |
| microlith | Xisdibik: big jump there :) | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, whatever allows me to do that conveniently and easily is what I want. | 19:23 |
| RST38h | Which will of course determine how much extra dough it costs | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: so do I ;) | 19:23 |
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| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: "conveniently" is hard :( | 19:23 |
| Xisdibik | 1988 = my dad gave lectures, other 3 are my own trips ;) | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: the bottom line is that it almost certainly added some cost | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | and it didn't work well | 19:23 |
| microlith | Xisdibik: cool | 19:23 |
| rm_you | yeah would love to bind in tab and pipe | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | plus there's maintenance overhead | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | The people on -developers keep throwing unrelated "solutions" | 19:23 |
| rm_you | and maybe just bind my bottom row of keys over one to the right | 19:23 |
| microlith | looking for a way to get back myself, refuse to teach english | 19:23 |
| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: Did you ever see the name i voted on for the AdBlocker ? | 19:23 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I unsubscribed from -developers | 19:24 |
| zerojayN900 | lol | 19:24 |
| crashanddie | way too much noise | 19:24 |
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| Xisdibik | microlith: im going back to see friends, thats my excuse ;) | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | and jrocha keeps insisting all anybody could ever need was the symbol popup! | 19:24 |
| timeless_mbp | zerojay: did you get my strings? | 19:24 |
| mgedmin | talking is more fun than doing | 19:24 |
| mgedmin | sadly | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, it's still vaguely useful for information and pulse keeping. | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, -users, however. | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | :shudder: | 19:24 |
| microlith | Xisdibik: totally usable, friend of mine from college moved there in march to teach english in Ashikagi | 19:24 |
| crashanddie | -community is pretty good | 19:24 |
| zerojayN900 | timeless, i asked for you to msg me the repo again. not at home now. | 19:24 |
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| * timeless_mbp wonders how to get hildon-control-panel-dev | 19:24 | |
| rm_you | anyone know if a pandora music app is in the works? | 19:25 |
| Xisdibik | zerojay: i think GeneralAntilles didnt see my messages ;( :P | 19:25 |
| RST38h | BTW, if you absolutely positively hate the ugly current address display in N900 Nokia Maps, vote here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5332 | 19:25 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: are you not on the Nokia network? No internal SCM you can use? | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xisdibik, I'll "Shield of Antilles" your ass. | 19:25 |
| Xisdibik | lol | 19:25 |
| RST38h | Not sure if it will help anything, but at least we will let Nokia know | 19:25 |
| zerojayN900 | haha | 19:25 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: i'm not on the nokia network | 19:25 |
| qwerty12 | Xisdibik: The worrying part is that he will do so with pleasure | 19:25 |
| timeless_mbp | and i don't want to vpn in if i can avoid it :) | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, tried Xmodmap, the only result was either no effect or dead keys. | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | but yes, i'm in my nokia office building | 19:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, before that I tried modifying the symbols file and there was absolutely no effect. | 19:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, so, I'm not sure what's left. | 19:26 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: did you reboot or run xkbcomp after editing the symbols file? | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: remember that what i'm trying to do isn't really nokia-ish, i don't want to cheat | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | and i shouldn't need to cheat | 19:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, rebooted. | 19:26 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: and when you say Xmodmap, do you mean the file ~/.Xmodmap, or do you mean running the xmodmap application (if so, where did you get it?) | 19:27 |
| qwerty12 | timeless_mbp: What is stopping you from grabbing it from the public SDK repository? :) | 19:27 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: my (professional) skype status message is: "If at first you don't succeed: CHEAT!" | 19:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | I edited the file and ran the application. | 19:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | I got it from, hrm, somewhere. | 19:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | One of the repos. | 19:27 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12: the fact that Mer doesn't seem to have it by default :) | 19:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12 has an xev that doesn't suck. | 19:27 |
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| crashanddie | \o/ lardman|gone | 19:28 |
| crashanddie | tab-fail | 19:28 |
| lardman | hey | 19:28 |
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| zerojayN900 | addons for microb still might require a few reboots to get them working. bleh. | 19:28 |
| qwerty12 | timeless_mbp: Ah, I thought this was Fremantle. Just install it from the SDK repository anyway; it only depends on libhildon1-dev and Mer won't be using anything newer than what is available in the SDK | 19:28 |
| RST38h | [Nokia's]marketshare has tumbled again, down to the 35 percent, from 41 percent last quarter. It used to be over 50 | 19:28 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12: the target is fremantle | 19:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | but i don't want to setup scratchbox, i use mer as my scratchbox | 19:29 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12: helpmaster, do you know where I can find PySide or PyQt? | 19:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, they're just setting up for an even more impressive recovery. *g* | 19:29 |
| qwerty12 | timeless_mbp: Well, yeah, like I said: It only depends on libhildon1-dev | 19:30 |
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| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: mind running my whence script (http://pastie.org/656168) and telling me where you got xmodmap from? | 19:30 |
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| qwerty12 | timeless_mbp: So, I can't see what would be stopping you from taking that deb and installing it in Mer | 19:30 |
| timeless_mbp | not even hildon-controlpanel-dev ? | 19:30 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 19:30 |
| timeless_mbp | you're saying control panel depends on hildon1 | 19:30 |
| timeless_mbp | gotcha | 19:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, think it was here: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Arepository.maemo.org+x11-utils&aq=f&oq=&aqi= | 19:30 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: Think all Qt stuff in in extras-devel. Lemme take a look... | 19:31 |
| qwerty12 | *is | 19:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just grabbed the .debs. | 19:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's not installed now, I did my testing on 39-9. | 19:31 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: oh, the package name is x11-utils! thanks! | 19:31 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: No, I can't find either, sorry | 19:31 |
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| crashanddie | qwerty12: I found deb http://www.pyside.org/apt/maemo-armel / | 19:32 |
| RST38h | General: Yes, their share is branching up into imaginary plane... | 19:32 |
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| VDVsx | wow the n920 looks huge o_0 | 19:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, and Bora. | 19:33 |
| RST38h | It probably has nothing to do with N920 | 19:34 |
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| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, hehe, yeah | 19:34 |
| VDVsx | at least the should put diablo there | 19:34 |
| VDVsx | *they | 19:34 |
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| qwerty12 | You would've thought after the "first N900 picture" that people would be able to tell what is Bora, and what is from the SDK... | 19:34 |
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| qwerty12 | Fuck, I've never used Bora but I can recognise it easily | 19:35 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: xmodmap is not in x11-utils | 19:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, it totally was the last time I installed it. . . . | 19:35 |
| VDVsx | humm, this n920 seems more a Nokla than a Nokia | 19:35 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12, any word about that ? | 19:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, maybe x11-apps? | 19:35 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: version? I got 7.4+2-1maemo3 from fremantle/tools | 19:35 |
| crashanddie | n920? | 19:36 |
| crashanddie | link or it didn't happen | 19:36 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: dpkg -S `which xmodmap` | 19:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Where the hell did I get xmodmap? | 19:36 |
| VDVsx | crashanddie, http://www.imobile365.net/acticles/reviews-and-news/5-nokia/3573-n920.html | 19:36 |
| lardman | ok, so I'm about to move my package to the autobuilder, where will it end up? | 19:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, I don't have it installed anymore. | 19:36 |
| qwerty12 | Ah | 19:36 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: Blackpool (knowing your packaging skills) | 19:36 |
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| qwerty12 | crashanddie: it hasn't happened | 19:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did I get it here? http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/xmodmap/ | 19:36 |
| mgedmin | OS2007? aieee | 19:37 |
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| lardman | qwerty12: oi! | 19:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, no effect modifying symbols again. | 19:42 |
| mgedmin | I plan to experiment with this | 19:42 |
| mgedmin | btw does anybody know where the layout of the symbol palette you get with fn+ctrl is defined? | 19:43 |
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| lcuk | Pavlov, are you around | 19:44 |
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| dneary | Hi | 19:45 |
| crashanddie | woops | 19:45 |
| dneary | Stuck with git | 19:45 |
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| crashanddie | problem while installing pyside: no space left on device | 19:45 |
| dneary | I just did a git pull --rebase and got "not on any branch" type error messages | 19:45 |
| dneary | Anyone know how to fix that? | 19:45 |
| dneary | (ie - I just want to be on the equivalent of the HEAD and pull everything down) | 19:46 |
| dneary | I don't even know how to find out what repository I pulled from (equiv. of svn info) | 19:47 |
| lcuk | dneary, if you have no mods on your side and are just trying to browse | 19:47 |
| crashanddie | dneary: git rebase --onto whateverbranch | 19:47 |
| lcuk | it might be easier to just restart | 19:47 |
| dneary | lcuk: I have evidently pulled from somewhere at some stage | 19:47 |
| dneary | I think I have a local edit too | 19:47 |
| dneary | crashanddie: How do I find outt what branches there are? | 19:48 |
| dneary | dneary@sligo:~/src/hildon$ git status | 19:49 |
| dneary | # Not currently on any branch. | 19:49 |
| dneary | # Untracked files: | 19:49 |
| dneary | # (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed) | 19:49 |
| dneary | # | 19:49 |
| dneary | #doc/.visual_index.xml.swp | 19:49 |
| dneary | nothing added to commit but untracked files present (use "git add" to track) | 19:49 |
| crashanddie | dneary: git branch | 19:49 |
| crashanddie | dneary: will show the branches available and highlight the active one with an asterisk | 19:49 |
| crashanddie | dneary: git branch -r will show remote branches as well | 19:50 |
| dneary | dneary@sligo:~/src/hildon$ git branch | 19:50 |
| dneary | * (no branch) | 19:50 |
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| mikhas | make that git branch -r/-a to see remote/all branches | 19:50 |
| dneary | dneary@sligo:~/src/hildon$ git branch -a | 19:50 |
| dneary | * (no branch) | 19:50 |
| dneary | origin/2.1.72 | 19:50 |
| dneary | origin/hildon-2-2 | 19:50 |
| dneary | origin/master | 19:50 |
| dneary | origin/offscreen-viewport | 19:50 |
| dneary | origin/window-menu-indicator | 19:50 |
| dneary | OK | 19:50 |
| mikhas | which only means you dont track any branch yet | 19:50 |
| dneary | So I need to do a git pull --rebase origin/master | 19:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | pastebin.com | 19:51 |
| dneary | GeneralAntilles: Is that a git documentation resource? | 19:51 |
| Solarion | mmm, pastebin | 19:51 |
| lardman | qwerty12: hmm, fail, I feel I must blame you :p | 19:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, but it's nicer than pasting lots of lines into the chat. ;) | 19:51 |
| mikhas | "git checkout -b my_local_branch origin/my_remote_branch" maybe? | 19:51 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, bah irc is a pastebin | 19:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, feel free to try me. :P | 19:52 |
| dneary | Hrmmm | 19:52 |
| dneary | I was told that git pull --rebase was good practice | 19:52 |
| mikhas | you probably already did a git fetch, to get all the objects | 19:52 |
| mikhas | ah | 19:52 |
| lcuk | sure GeneralAntilles, why not :D | 19:52 |
| * qwerty12 wonders about lardman's reading skills: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libchamplain_0.4.0-1/summary.log | 19:52 | |
| woglinde | jo | 19:52 |
| mikhas | dneary: yes, once you track a branch it probably is | 19:52 |
| lardman | ah no, thinking about libdmtx | 19:53 |
| woglinde | hi lardman | 19:53 |
| lardman | hey woglinde | 19:53 |
| dneary | but when I do that I get this message: http://pastebin.ca/1622366 | 19:53 |
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| dneary | mikhas: But git doesn't remember what branch I'm on? | 19:53 |
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| lcuk | btw GeneralAntilles http://maemo.pastebin.com/ is better than a generic | 19:54 |
| dneary | I just did a git rebase | 19:54 |
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| * lcuk has seen folks using it more and more | 19:54 | |
| mikhas | it does? if you want to read the binary version: cat .git/config it shows what you currently track | 19:54 |
| lardman | mainly because it comes up in FF when I start typing maemo ;) | 19:54 |
| jabis | http://ktown.kde.org/~zrusin/git/git-cheat-sheet-large.png | 19:54 |
| lcuk | lol | 19:54 |
| jabis | just a hint ;) | 19:55 |
| * qwerty12 clears lardman's history | 19:55 | |
| woglinde | my favorit is git -i rebase | 19:55 |
| qwerty12 | (after jotting down the porn links first) | 19:55 |
| mikhas | dneary, just try to checkout a remote branch first, with "git checkout -b my_local_branch origin/my_remote_branch" | 19:56 |
| lcuk | wat! security framework is dualbooting? | 19:56 |
| mikhas | perhaps you want to use "master" and "origin/master" for the branches, too | 19:56 |
| dneary | I don't understand why git rebase origin/master doesn't just set the current default branch to origin/master :( | 19:56 |
| mikhas | it probably could do that, but no idea how =/ | 19:57 |
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| dneary | mikhas: And I don't understand why I have to create a local branch to track a remote source | 19:57 |
| dneary | I don't want to use it as DVCS, I want to use it as centralised VCS, and I was told I could | 19:58 |
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| mikhas | yeah, I know what you mean. but one local branch is the bare minimum =) | 19:58 |
| dneary | No, I don't get it | 19:58 |
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| RST38h | WSJ shits all over Europe: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204574473543586270418.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular | 19:59 |
| dneary | So - in my head, the steps to getting set up for git are: | 19:59 |
| dneary | 1. I say what repository I want to use | 19:59 |
| * Solarion goes to get the free lunch | 19:59 | |
| dneary | 2. I pull sources from a named branch | 19:59 |
| woglinde | dneary it dont work as centralized as svn | 19:59 |
| dneary | Doine | 19:59 |
| dneary | But in reality, what I need to do is: | 19:59 |
| woglinde | you have to pull commit and push | 19:59 |
| dneary | 1. Say what remote repository I want to use | 20:00 |
| woglinde | and rebase sometimes | 20:00 |
| dneary | 2. Say what branch I want to use, and create a local branch based off it | 20:00 |
| dneary | 3. Check out remote branch to local branch | 20:00 |
| woglinde | and the cool think is you can track serval repos in local branches | 20:00 |
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| mikhas | whereas you can combine step 2 and 3, yes | 20:00 |
| woglinde | cherry pick only some patches | 20:00 |
| woglinde | do that with svn or cvs | 20:01 |
| dneary | Then rebase to the remote named branch every time I want to update | 20:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like how the clients for iPhone always cost money when they're free for every other platform. | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | steps to getting set up for git are: 1. install hg, to pick a git gateway :) | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | s/to/2./ | 20:01 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: steps 2. getting set up for git are: 1. install hg, to pick a git gateway :) | 20:01 |
| dneary | I can combine git branch and git checkout? | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | oh brother | 20:01 |
| mikhas | yes | 20:01 |
| * timeless_mbp gives up | 20:01 | |
| woglinde | one cool think is stash and stash -apply | 20:01 |
| mikhas | the little -b after checkout does that | 20:01 |
| woglinde | dneary yes | 20:01 |
| dneary | OK | 20:01 |
| dneary | And once I have a source tree | 20:01 |
| woglinde | there are twi ways | 20:01 |
| dneary | (I have obviously got one, and it's a git repository) | 20:02 |
| woglinde | one create branch then co | 20:02 |
| mikhas | technically, you would have to say "-t" as well, but luckily that is the default (to track the branch) | 20:02 |
| woglinde | other does both step at same time | 20:02 |
| dneary | what have I missed? | 20:02 |
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| lardman | hmm, I've failed to build due to libtool not being there - should I add a dep for that then? | 20:02 |
| woglinde | lardman where? | 20:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woo, awesome random Comcast reset time! | 20:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~ping | 20:03 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:03 |
| woglinde | GeneralAntilles ~boo | 20:03 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: i like the wsj article | 20:03 |
| * RST38h considers wsj article bitching | 20:03 | |
| mikhas | hm odd, doesnt git clone create a local master branch, tracking origin/master, automatically? | 20:03 |
| dneary | Buggery | 20:03 |
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| lardman | woglinde: autobuilder | 20:03 |
| qwerty12 | timeless_mbp: Of course. You are American ;P | 20:03 |
| RST38h | (which of course does not mean EU isn't going to shit) | 20:03 |
| dneary | Apparently I've created some local object called object/master, and now object/master is an aùbiguous label | 20:03 |
| woglinde | lardman yes you should | 20:04 |
| dneary | This is complicated | 20:04 |
| mikhas | ugh | 20:04 |
| woglinde | dnaery only in the beginning | 20:04 |
| lardman | woglinde: cool, thanks | 20:04 |
| dneary | woglinde: That's the only time that simplicity matters | 20:04 |
| mikhas | can we agree that you probably fetched your repo the wrong way then? | 20:04 |
| woglinde | dneary as I said normaly you only need branch, pull, push, rebase, merge | 20:05 |
| dneary | and checkout | 20:05 |
| timeless_mbp | mikhas: we can agree that his tool let him do something stupid | 20:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | which is a fault of the tool :) | 20:05 |
| dneary | And clone | 20:05 |
| woglinde | dneary hm yes | 20:05 |
| mikhas | and revert, and format-patch, and am, and cherry-pick, and ... =) | 20:05 |
| timeless_mbp | woglinde: surely you need commit? | 20:05 |
| dneary | OK | 20:05 |
| woglinde | clone only ones | 20:05 |
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| mikhas | timeless_mbp, I wont deny that | 20:05 |
| woglinde | timeless sure | 20:05 |
| dneary | git branch -d origin/master deleted my local one, and I think I'm now OK | 20:06 |
| mikhas | good | 20:06 |
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| dneary | dneary@sligo:~/src/hildon$ git branch | 20:06 |
| dneary | * (no branch) | 20:06 |
| dneary | local | 20:06 |
| woglinde | timeless otheriwise you dont get something into your branch | 20:06 |
| dneary | git checkout is nice now | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | <woglinde> dneary as I said normaly you only need ... | 20:06 |
| dneary | but I still have that * beside (no branch) | 20:06 |
| woglinde | timless tse tse | 20:06 |
| dneary | Shouldn't "git branch local origin/master" have fixed that? | 20:06 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 20:07 | |
| woglinde | dneary now git checkout local | 20:07 |
| woglinde | hm ah right | 20:07 |
| dneary | dneary@sligo:~/src/hildon$ git checkout local | 20:07 |
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| dneary | Switched to branch "local" | 20:07 |
| dneary | dneary@sligo:~/src/hildon$ git pull --rebase | 20:07 |
| dneary | Current branch local is up to date. | 20:07 |
| mikhas | woot | 20:07 |
| dneary | OK, seems like we're getting somewhere | 20:07 |
| mikhas | git status? | 20:07 |
| woglinde | dneary hehe | 20:08 |
| dneary | I have a .swp file from an old edit, otherwise clean | 20:08 |
| woglinde | congrats | 20:08 |
| * lardman looks for Quake 3 files | 20:08 | |
| woglinde | now you can start | 20:08 |
| mikhas | phew, that was hard | 20:08 |
| dneary | Now... can someone explain to me the difference between push & commit, please? | 20:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | dneary: commit is a local operation | 20:08 |
| woglinde | commit puts changes into your local brunch | 20:08 |
| dneary | And also the user interface for the remote maintainer when I commit something to his tree? | 20:08 |
| mikhas | push: push a set of changes/commit to the remote repo | 20:08 |
| woglinde | push is for upstream repo | 20:09 |
| timeless_mbp | push is an operation that takes local changes and sends them somewhere else | 20:09 |
| dneary | I assume he gets to accept or reject it | 20:09 |
| mikhas | luckily, there is --dry-run for push | 20:09 |
| woglinde | *g* | 20:09 |
| mikhas | very helpful | 20:09 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: no | 20:09 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: DVCS is fairly cooperative | 20:09 |
| dneary | timeless_mbp: Then there must be some kind of access control to say who can push and who can't? | 20:09 |
| timeless_mbp | if someone allows you to push, they trust you | 20:09 |
| woglinde | dneary for every push you should pull --rebase | 20:09 |
| woglinde | okay | 20:09 |
| woglinde | dinner now | 20:09 |
| timeless_mbp | typically the ACL is managed by SSH accounts | 20:09 |
| mikhas | dneary, usually your public ssh key | 20:09 |
| timeless_mbp | or HTTPS AUTH | 20:09 |
| dneary | OK | 20:09 |
| woglinde | till later | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: but basically | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | as long as i have 2 repos that are related and nearly synced | 20:10 |
| dneary | So if I have pull access to an git+ssh tree, I automatically have push access? | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | one that you can munge and one that you can't | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | not necessarily | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | it depends on how the system is configured | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | but typically, yes | 20:10 |
| mikhas | nope, one could be public, hte other private | 20:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | h-a-m really needs to be sped up. | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | ... it's ok for me to let you dump garbage into one, because i could destroy stuff and push my stuff back | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: no kidding | 20:11 |
| dneary | But the upstream tree owner can see when I commit something, right? | 20:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's silly how long it takes to render lists. | 20:11 |
| mikhas | locally? | 20:11 |
| mikhas | nope | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: you can configure triggers | 20:11 |
| mikhas | only after you push | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | but in short, not really | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | mostly people can take their own repository and ask for a list of things that the one you changed has that they don't | 20:11 |
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| timeless_mbp | they can choose to not take them, or to take them, or if they have local access to the repo, they can attack the repo | 20:12 |
| dneary | So, I was expecting some kind of user interface where the upstream guy got a bunch of patches, and manually reviewed & accepted or rejected each one | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | (strip, rebase) | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: there are approaches like that | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | one is hg patchbomb | 20:12 |
| dneary | But it appears that's not how it works at all | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | where you take local commits and it converts them into email messages | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | and then someone looks at the email they received and pushes them into their own repo | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | another approach is mozilla's try servers | 20:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, where's a dummy maemo-select-menu-location so I can install Hava Player? | 20:13 |
| dneary | How does the kernel handle it when (say) someone wants to submit a patch to a subsystem maintainer? | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | where a large number of people can send lots of garbage to a repo | 20:13 |
| dneary | My mind is in knots - I just don't see how I do basic stuff as a git user | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | and someone can look and see if any of the garbage wasn't really so bad and then pull it in and merge it into a canonical tree | 20:13 |
| mikhas | dneary, they dont push | 20:13 |
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| mikhas | they pull from trusted repos | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | they tend to use email | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | at some levels | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | and pulling | 20:13 |
| mikhas | and emails, yes | 20:13 |
| dneary | mikhas: OK, so I can pull individual patches or a group of patches? | 20:13 |
| crashanddie | ok, time to go home, cya later | 20:13 |
| mikhas | yes, that is actually the best part | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | you would say "my repo is http://dneary/foo.git" | 20:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | and someone would go pull from there and consider it | 20:14 |
| dneary | mikhas: Let's say a feature has been under review for a while, and has gone through half a dozen changes | 20:14 |
| dneary | Is there an easy way for me to group the half a dozen changesets together into one changeset that I can submit to a maintainer, or allow him to pull in one go? | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: in general w/ dvcs you *usually* take all of the changesets (commits) and pull them together into a repo you have | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | but you can then decide to do all sorts of random things to them before you publish something else elsewhere | 20:15 |
| timeless_mbp | mostly you send someone the changeset id for the last changeset in a series | 20:15 |
| mikhas | yes, git rebase -i HEAD~n (where n is the amount of commits to go back), for example | 20:15 |
| timeless_mbp | each changeset encodes the changeset it is based on | 20:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | mikhas: that's folding, no? | 20:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i presume dneary wants a series (more of an export) | 20:16 |
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| mikhas | dneary asked specifically for one commit | 20:16 |
| mikhas | export is git format-patch, basically | 20:16 |
| * GeneralAntilles wonders if he still has that Hava engineer's email. . . . | 20:16 | |
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| timeless_mbp | oh, he said group into one changeset | 20:16 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: so um | 20:17 |
| timeless_mbp | in general you shouldn't be folding changesets together | 20:17 |
| timeless_mbp | it's better to send them as a series of changesets | 20:17 |
| dneary | So you basically encourage developers to have a branch per feature | 20:17 |
| dneary | ? | 20:17 |
| timeless_mbp | but the expected format will depend on the recipient's goals | 20:17 |
| timeless_mbp | or wishes or something | 20:17 |
| timeless_mbp | 'branches' in dvcs are funny things | 20:18 |
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| dneary | But the short version is: | 20:18 |
| mikhas | well, git format-patch allows you this neat trick: git format-patch HEAD~2 --stdout | 20:18 |
| timeless_mbp | in general, any commit you make is a branch | 20:18 |
| mikhas | which you can then redirect into a single file | 20:18 |
| mikhas | (2 being the amount of commits to be considered, from head, in this example) | 20:18 |
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| dneary | If someone lets me push, they trust me unconditionally, otherwise I can publish individual changeset IDs and let them pull individual changesets, and it's my responsibility to ensure that they merge with his tree? | 20:18 |
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| mikhas | dneary, feature branches, if you embrace DVCS, git format-patch, if you prefer single branches | 20:19 |
| mikhas | both works reasonably well for me | 20:19 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: they don't have to trust you uncoditionally | 20:19 |
| timeless_mbp | they can let you push to a sandbox | 20:19 |
| timeless_mbp | and then review or pull from it | 20:19 |
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| dneary | Honestly? Seems like work, all this stuff | 20:19 |
| timeless_mbp | bah, my typing sucks today | 20:19 |
| timeless_mbp | it's like perl | 20:20 |
| dneary | You mean tipping? | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | dozens of ways to do similar things | 20:20 |
| mikhas | that is why pulling is the preferred way, let them push to a public repo first | 20:20 |
| dneary | timeless_mbp: I know a perl joke | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary: i'm in finland, i don't tip :) | 20:20 |
| lardman | is there a light sensor api for the N900? | 20:20 |
| dneary | You know the name of the perl obfuscator? | 20:20 |
| dneary | vi | 20:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bleh, stupid hildon help | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: not quite dead yet? | 20:20 |
| mikhas | and track that repo, too. but then you are fully emerged in DVCS land, which you didnt want to begin with | 20:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, Hava Player depends on it so wont run. | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | nice | 20:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Going to try to talk them into updating. | 20:21 |
| mikhas | " and it's my responsibility to ensure that they merge with his tree?" <= this is precisely why pushing can be "bad", I guess | 20:22 |
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| lardman | to fix a package, must I re-upload the whole lot? | 20:26 |
| lardman | in Extras builder | 20:26 |
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| * lardman sends it off for a second try | 20:27 | |
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| dneary | What, no-one liked my perl joke, | 20:29 |
| lardman | dneary: ah, missed the vi on the second line | 20:30 |
| * timeless_mbp gives up | 20:31 | |
| mikhas | dneary, too old, too old | 20:32 |
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| lardman | ah no, need to write a Makefile :( | 20:33 |
| dneary | OK - so out of 3, 1 knew it already, and the other 2 didn't get it | 20:33 |
| dneary | Great | 20:33 |
| dneary | You've just reinforced what I said during my lightning talk, guys - I'm not funny. | 20:34 |
| lardman | 3?! 385 you mean ;) | 20:34 |
| dneary | lardman3 who responded | 20:34 |
| lardman | ah ok | 20:34 |
| dneary | I'm assuming the others were just not paying attention | 20:34 |
| lardman | or perhaps the voter apathy is constant ;) | 20:35 |
| mikhas | I think you were pretty funny, even with your LT | 20:35 |
| mikhas | which was actually great | 20:35 |
| mikhas | as it showcased what you preached | 20:36 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | dneary: Your role as maemo.org docmaster is wasted. Stand-up comedy is the career path that you should take | 20:36 |
| lardman | shh, don't build him up too much | 20:36 |
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| mikhas | fine, going to be less honest next time =p | 20:36 |
| dneary | qwerty12_N810: Let me just go resign, just after I finish this next task... hope I don't forget | 20:37 |
| lardman | lol | 20:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | dneary: :p | 20:37 |
| dneary | mikhas: Thanks! Appreciate it. That lightning talk took quite a bit of time - if I'd messed up, it would have been both tragic & ironic | 20:37 |
| dneary | I don't know if showcasing what I preached made it better or not though | 20:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's interesting that Nokia's support timeframes _seem_ to be getting shorter | 20:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: It | 20:38 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | 's a phone now... *cough* | 20:38 |
| lardman | hmm, interesting error from the auto builder: "configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables | 20:38 |
| lardman | " | 20:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | after they said they wouldn't let what happened to the 770 happen again. | 20:38 |
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| lardman | that's why I ignore x86 | 20:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, yet another reason I didn't want the cellular hardware in there. | 20:38 |
| dneary | lardman: Of course it can't | 20:39 |
| dneary | lardman: The linker creates executables | 20:39 |
| lardman | dneary: don't look at me, that's the fault of the configure script writer ;) | 20:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | How did we get back to porting Morrowind to Maemo 5 again. . . . | 20:40 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: Fremantle builder does not need VFP flags, as it is enabled by default; and for Diablo, the autobuilder exports $DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS in the ARMEL builder only for doing just that | 20:41 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: ok, thanks | 20:41 |
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| * lardman curses Ubuntu for locking up the taskbar/etc | 20:42 | |
| * qwerty12_N810 takes RST38h's drugs away. You should not be typing under the influence of them | 20:42 | |
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| Shapeshifter | In my gtk app for maemo5 written in C, what's the best way of determining if a connection to the internet is up, and of noticing if it drops or connects? Are there signals that can be connected inside the app for connection events? | 20:46 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Shapeshifter: libconic | 20:47 |
| Shapeshifter | qwerty12_N810: perfect, thanks! | 20:47 |
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| vladovg | hi | 20:51 |
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| vladovg | it s dear a wai to make internet radio todai plug in to play mp3 | 20:53 |
| vladovg | ? | 20:53 |
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| lardman | no | 20:59 |
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| Solarion | is ssh from Maemo Extras, official, or other? | 21:02 |
| RST38h | other official | 21:02 |
| Solarion | where is it from precisely? | 21:03 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS, can I stick CFLAGS="" in there, or is it added to CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS? | 21:03 |
| RST38h | from the guy nentioned as maintainer in its package details? | 21:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, well, he's a Nokian. ;) | 21:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it's not an official package, no. | 21:03 |
| Solarion | :) | 21:03 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: maemo-policy has the lowdown | 21:04 |
| RST38h | it is a standard openssh compiled for maemo | 21:04 |
| lardman | 8th of May 2008 sound right for the date of said doc? | 21:04 |
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| * crashanddie_ is back | 21:20 | |
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| * lcuk gets crashanddie_ a pint | 21:24 | |
| crashanddie_ | cheers | 21:24 |
| crashanddie_ | actually, i'm on baileys and milk | 21:24 |
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| crashanddie_ | ~lart people's quoting habits on maemo-* | 21:26 |
| * infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking people's quoting habits on maemo-*'s head off | 21:26 | |
| crashanddie_ | infobot, nearly | 21:27 |
| Arkenklo | oh, great, I was afraid this channel was all uptight and strict | 21:27 |
| * Arkenklo breathes out | 21:27 | |
| *** jospoortvliet has quit IRC | 21:27 | |
| penguinbait | who you calling uptight? | 21:27 |
| crashanddie_ | Arkenklo, the channel's only formal when Quim is in da place | 21:27 |
| penguinbait | ;) | 21:27 |
| crashanddie_ | Arkenklo, rest of the time, that wanker of a GeneralAntilles keeps us all informal | 21:28 |
| Arkenklo | thanks for the warning :D | 21:28 |
| penguinbait | heh | 21:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arkenklo, if you're not having fun, you get the boot. :P | 21:28 |
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| crashanddie_ | btw, that webcam skype gave away at the summit isn't half as bad as I thought | 21:28 |
| Arkenklo | I have the feeling I'm going to like this channel | 21:29 |
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| lcuk | Arkenklo, don't go into private messaging with penguinbait, he has no senses of discretion. | 21:29 |
| penguinbait | hah | 21:29 |
| Arkenklo | lcuk: I don't see any problem with that? | 21:29 |
| lcuk | i didnt either until my wife hit the roof | 21:29 |
| crashanddie_ | don't go into private messaging with penguinbait, he has no senses. <- there, fixed that for you | 21:29 |
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| lcuk | don't go into private massaging with penguinbait. | 21:30 |
| Arkenklo | good then that I don't have any close friends to loose | 21:30 |
| penguinbait | did you have a good time at summit, lcuk | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, sooo, it's a race between you and zerojay now. :P | 21:30 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, hmm? | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | By the way, zerojay, reminder. :P | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | For the N900 schnict sound. | 21:30 |
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| lcuk | penguinbait, yeah excellently so, fraught with technical difficulties but i spoke to everyone i think i needed to and did everything i wanted and now a bit more now than then | 21:31 |
| lcuk | so thank you once again :) | 21:31 |
| crashanddie_ | lcuk, we didn't drink enough though | 21:31 |
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| crashanddie_ | lcuk, well, I drank enough, but we didn't do it together | 21:31 |
| penguinbait | any furthering of the job prospects? | 21:31 |
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| Arkenklo | wait, did you say Qlix? | 21:31 |
| lcuk | crashanddie_, yeah i was running around like a blue ass fly | 21:31 |
| crashanddie_ | Arkenklo, no, I said Quim | 21:31 |
| Arkenklo | crashanddie_: oh | 21:31 |
| crashanddie_ | Arkenklo, Quim Gil, Community Something on behalf of Nokia | 21:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ~lart dsmetool | 21:32 |
| * infobot overclocks dsmetool until dsmetool burns out | 21:32 | |
| lcuk | penguinbait, i spoke to many people, ive got a tel interview tomorrow and i have a few things which i need to follow up on. | 21:32 |
| Arkenklo | A man to have great respect for, in other words | 21:32 |
| crashanddie_ | Arkenklo, actually, he's pretty chilled out IRL, but like anyone in a corporation, the last thing he has is time, so he doesn't waste it here | 21:32 |
| crashanddie_ | Arkenklo, respect is earned, and as long as he doesn't demonstrate anything you should have respect for, why would you have any? Would you take my word? | 21:33 |
| lcuk | what format are open office presentations stored in | 21:33 |
| crashanddie_ | osp? | 21:33 |
| lcuk | irc is not a waste of time. you just have to manage it well | 21:33 |
| lcuk | its the closest to grass roots there is | 21:33 |
| penguinbait | odp | 21:33 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, race between me and zj about what? | 21:34 |
| lcuk | im thinking of using odp then as a baseline for an interactive presentation | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, getting a recording of the N900 keyboard opening sound. | 21:34 |
| lcuk | but i cannot obviously do the interactive parts i want | 21:34 |
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| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, I never said I would | 21:34 |
| lcuk | thx for odp bit | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Clearly he's at an advantage, though, since you didn't know you were running. :P | 21:34 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, why would I record any such thing? | 21:34 |
| crashanddie_ | does it make a noise? | 21:34 |
| lcuk | just ask nokia direct | 21:35 |
| Arkenklo | I guess I trust that he has the proper knowledge and skill to have gained my respect if the opportunity was presented if he has that kind of position | 21:35 |
| lcuk | the noise they use in the adverts | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, http://legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup-schnict.mov | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | For that. | 21:35 |
| crashanddie_ | does the n900 make a specific sound? | 21:35 |
| * lcuk longs for prerolled cigs | 21:35 | |
| * crashanddie_ gives a LS to lcuk | 21:35 | |
| Arkenklo | s/he has that kind/he's in that kind | 21:35 |
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| lcuk | ls@? | 21:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, that clunk as the slide clicks open. | 21:36 |
| crashanddie_ | lucky strike | 21:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want to use that for when the .org pops in. | 21:36 |
| fiferboy | personal-ip-address is now even better :) | 21:36 |
| lcuk | heh fiferboy | 21:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, it also finds lcuk's current IP address? | 21:36 |
| lcuk | btw folks, i read that accessing localhost when no network is available is a bit braindead | 21:36 |
| Arkenklo | do the unlock-switch on the side make a specific sound? | 21:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: I thought maemo.org was meant to be exciting, and, as such, have an exciting sound representing it? ;) | 21:36 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, liquid.zapto.org | 21:37 |
| fiferboy | It displays the interface you are connected to and attempts to refresh your connection on click | 21:37 |
| fiferboy | (like when walking between the N900 room and N800 room you would have to disconnect then reconnect) | 21:37 |
| Arkenklo | that powerdown in the official presentation is awesome | 21:37 |
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| lcuk | powerdown? | 21:37 |
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| Arkenklo | yeah, in the end | 21:38 |
| lbt | lo fiferboy | 21:38 |
| Arkenklo | let me find the video | 21:38 |
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| fiferboy | hey lbt | 21:38 |
| fiferboy | Are you mashing OBS into shape? | 21:38 |
| * lbt needs to install shoppwe | 21:38 | |
| lbt | er | 21:39 |
| lbt | but yes I'm hacking on OBS | 21:39 |
| Arkenklo | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au_uRmoy8Fs | 21:39 |
| Arkenklo | 1:30 | 21:39 |
| lcuk | everytime i watch that video, i think M5 was designed for a huge screen | 21:40 |
| lcuk | a proper touch interface | 21:40 |
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| cpt_nemo | Hi | 21:43 |
| Ceron^ | is the nokia connecting people comming up | 21:44 |
| Ceron^ | at the start of n900? | 21:44 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, sorry, don't have any microphone worthy enough to provide you with such recording | 21:44 |
| cpt_nemo | I tried to install Maemo SDK+ on my Debian Lenny machine, but ran into a configuration problem with texlive-latex-base while the chroot environment (etch-2008) was being installed. | 21:44 |
| crashanddie_ | Ceron^, yes | 21:44 |
| Ceron^ | with the 2 hands molesting eachother? | 21:44 |
| crashanddie_ | Ceron^, two shaking hands rubing each other | 21:45 |
| cpt_nemo | Has anyone else experienced this? | 21:45 |
| crashanddie_ | any choirboy I would expect | 21:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ceron^: They managed to make it even creepier in the N900 | 21:45 |
| Ceron^ | qwerty12_N810: how? | 21:45 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Ceron^: The N8x0 one was just a static image | 21:45 |
| Ceron^ | isee ;D | 21:46 |
| Ceron^ | qwerty12_N810: are the hands female or male? | 21:46 |
| Arkenklo | If you make a animation with high enough quality well enough you'll eventually reach the creepy-zone, I guess that's what has happened | 21:47 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Ceron^: Male, of course; I mean, you can't have so many images taking the piss out of it saying it is a pedo image and have the hands being female | 21:48 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Then again... | 21:48 |
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| lcuk | since theres a lot of bleugh abotu this image | 21:49 |
| lcuk | how would "connecting people" be symbolized | 21:49 |
| Solarion | lcuk: The Matrix? | 21:49 |
| Solarion | big honkin' pipe coming out of Person A's head and into Person B | 21:50 |
| Solarion | The zombie-stare is bonus | 21:50 |
| RST38h | lcuk: A moment, there is an image for that | 21:50 |
| lcuk | Solarion, if i could show a single image for 1 second to people - which image would mean "connecting people" better than any other | 21:50 |
| Solarion | lcuk: just what I said. :) | 21:50 |
| Solarion | unless you're being serious, in which case it requires additonal thought. :) | 21:50 |
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| Arkenklo | spiderman shooting a guy and pulling him in | 21:50 |
| RST38h | lcuk: http://rlv.zcache.com/sex_connecting_people_tshirt-p2355783613281571593r2z_400.jpg | 21:51 |
| lcuk | i go with this sort of thing: http://s3.images.com/huge.32.162626.JPG | 21:51 |
| lcuk | hahaha | 21:51 |
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| Solarion | Maybe two people smiling at each other, like they recognize each other? | 21:51 |
| lcuk | RST38h, hopefully the interfaces are good | 21:51 |
| Solarion | lcuk: you a Nokian? | 21:51 |
| lcuk | no | 21:51 |
| Solarion | ah, sounded like ad campaign. :) | 21:51 |
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| lcuk | but i think about connections an awful lot | 21:51 |
| Solarion | I suppose Nokia has better marketing resources than IRC channels. :) | 21:52 |
| lcuk | Solarion, i just dont like badmouthing something without a better solution to replace it with | 21:52 |
| lcuk | the best decisions in life come from 2 people connecting and talking - the channel and medium doesnt matter | 21:52 |
| lcuk | and sometimes without airs and graces even better can come | 21:52 |
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| RST38h | like....money exchange between these two people?!? | 21:53 |
| lcuk | how does that translate into multi language | 21:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Somebody needs to get ahold of those animations Nokia was playing before the Nokia World keynote. | 21:56 |
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| lcuk | whos seen "catch phrase" on uk tv | 21:57 |
| lcuk | we need that game on the devices | 21:57 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: There's a reason why it's on there now and not ITV | 21:58 |
| Solarion | MadLibs would be fun to have | 21:58 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, it was good :) | 21:58 |
| lcuk | whats madlibs? | 21:59 |
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| lcuk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Libs | 22:00 |
| lcuk | oh cool! | 22:00 |
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| Solarion | they can be pretty fun | 22:02 |
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| lcuk | for the right audience i agree | 22:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | First long drive with the N900 today. . . . | 22:02 |
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| Solarion | also a simple idea; take a template story, pop out key words, replace with a word-type tag (e.g. verb, noun), let user fill in blanks, present story | 22:02 |
| lcuk | yeah its in line with what im thinking for interactive presentations for schools | 22:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | N900: /etc/init.d/rcS: "echo 4 > /proc/sys/kernel/pty/max" - way to go, Nokia. | 22:03 |
| Solarion | lcuk: might also be nice to have collaborative storywriting stuff | 22:04 |
| Solarion | guess input would be the main problem for that | 22:04 |
| Arkenklo | seeing as maemo (5) is debianderived and uses apt-get, how easy and functional is it to install official debian packages for arm? | 22:04 |
| lcuk | Solarion, if my presentation had worked at the summit you would know what i mean. there was a section on cocreation and we expanded on a few of the ideas there | 22:04 |
| Arkenklo | there aren't any crucial software missing, right? | 22:04 |
| Solarion | lcuk: no, I'd not know. I sadly couldn't make it | 22:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, ran into that trying to install stuff in h-a-m the other day. | 22:05 |
| * Solarion would love to go to a maemo or gnome meeting | 22:05 | |
| Solarion | so many things I want to do; so little time and moeny | 22:05 |
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| Arkenklo | or is it armel? | 22:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GeneralAntilles: Two Terminals open, and one SSH session from my N800. FFS, who makes these retarded decisions? | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, people who think all of their users are idiots. | 22:06 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 22:06 |
| Shapeshifter | qwerty12_N810: that caps the max number of allowed terminal sessions? | 22:06 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: found bluez 4.xx ? | 22:06 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Shapeshifter: yep | 22:06 |
| RST38h | Organizers of last week's SecTor security conference collected names, passwords, and all other traffic passing over two Wi-Fi networks provided to attendees, including one that was encrypted, the event's director has confirmed. | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wonder if the average Nokia manager in Maemo has any concept for the kinds of things we do with these devices. . . | 22:06 |
| Shapeshifter | dumb | 22:06 |
| RST38h | General: At the Summit, everybody got a chance to show them | 22:07 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, yep, luke pointed me at it | 22:07 |
| lcuk | most nokia people have some involvement in the community, so im sure they are aware | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, all of them? ;) | 22:07 |
| Arkenklo | GeneralAntilles: fortunately, there are those who do | 22:07 |
| RST38h | General: A lot, not all | 22:07 |
| RST38h | General: There were all kinds of management people there, from project leads to Maemo6 marketing guys | 22:07 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: i got my keyboard without problems connected, but now i must test if it auto connects after reboot | 22:08 |
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| lcuk | Solarion, input isnt such a big problem if you get everything together | 22:08 |
| RST38h | General: So, there is some hope some informaion got across | 22:08 |
| Solarion | lcuk: for storywriting? | 22:08 |
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| lcuk | for the madlibs type thingsw, for more general story writing, thats even practical | 22:08 |
| lcuk | in a different way tho | 22:08 |
| Solarion | how so? | 22:09 |
| lcuk | heh - you will see | 22:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it's utterly baffling the kind of simple usability stuff they omit. | 22:09 |
| lcuk | on another topic, i finally got photos and sketches showing properly in the graffiti view on | 22:10 |
| lcuk | liqbase | 22:10 |
| lcuk | so now i have the entire clean view of what i did whilst at the summit | 22:10 |
| Solarion | I need more monitors | 22:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Solarion, how many? | 22:10 |
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| RST38h | General: They have got separate usability people, lots of tech leads seem to loathe them | 22:10 |
| johnsq | Solarion: each computer shop sell them | 22:10 |
| Solarion | GeneralAntilles: How many you willing to give me? | 22:10 |
| Solarion | 3 seems like a good number right now | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Solarion, don't have any extra at the moment. ;) | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | But Samsung 2343bwx's are cheap! | 22:11 |
| Solarion | not when you're a postdoc | 22:11 |
| lcuk | i have a number of nXXX devices lying around, i just want to use them all collaboratively | 22:11 |
| lcuk | to share a single app | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 22:11 |
| * GeneralAntilles is at 4 right now. | 22:11 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Was at 6 for a little while but a computer upgrade and general lack of desk space forced a downgrade. | 22:11 |
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| Solarion | aww | 22:12 |
| Solarion | Linux? | 22:12 |
| Arkenklo | lcuk: and sharing screen? | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | OS X | 22:12 |
| Arkenklo | screens | 22:12 |
| Solarion | ah | 22:12 |
| lcuk | Arkenklo, yeah | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Linux DE experience just doesn't stack up yet. | 22:12 |
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| Solarion | DE is what? | 22:13 |
| Arkenklo | that might be a problem | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Desktop Environment | 22:13 |
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| Solarion | ah. I disagree, but to each their own | 22:13 |
| Arkenklo | GeneralAntilles: how so? | 22:13 |
| absolute | huh... no ssl on freenode over here? | 22:13 |
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| lcuk | general likes ferraris | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Solarion, how much experience do you have with OS X? | 22:13 |
| absolute | or was 9999 just the wrong port? | 22:13 |
| Solarion | GeneralAntilles: some | 22:13 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: but gentoo ebuild is very old upstream at 4.56 already | 22:13 |
| lcuk | shame hes taking them to the garage every 5 minutes | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Solarion, it's the little things that kill me. | 22:14 |
| Solarion | Enough to know that I prefer Linux. :) | 22:14 |
| Solarion | GeneralAntilles: if you say so | 22:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Like not hiding the mouse pointer when typing. | 22:14 |
| aSIMULAter | absolute: not sure i'm not connected via ssl | 22:14 |
| Solarion | I ain't fighting you on your preferences. | 22:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/3981783507/ | 22:14 |
| lcuk | Windows XP Window Manager FTW, and everyone else is wrong!!! | 22:14 |
| absolute | doesn't matter i suppose | 22:14 |
| aSIMULAter | yeah | 22:14 |
| aSIMULAter | not here at least :P | 22:14 |
| lcuk | (please port this great app to linux) | 22:14 |
| aSIMULAter | evening people | 22:14 |
| Arkenklo | All I need to know about OS X to descide if I want to use it is that I'd have to pay to use it | 22:14 |
| suihkulokki | did anyone make a keymap switching app yet for n900? :) | 22:14 |
| Arkenklo | decide | 22:15 |
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| * lcuk waves @ aSIMULAter \o | 22:15 | |
| GeneralAntilles | aSIMULAter, are those Chick-fil-A fries? :D | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | suihkulokki, I've been poking unsuccessfully at xmodmap and the xkb symbols files. | 22:15 |
| aSIMULAter | hehe no i made them :) | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | suihkulokki, only thing I've managed to do so far is kill the keys I try to change with xmodmap. | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | aSIMULAter, yummy. | 22:16 |
| aSIMULAter | what's chick fil a | 22:16 |
| Arkenklo | GeneralAntilles: is Dat sum Keyboard I c dar? | 22:16 |
| jeremiah | Whoa. I installed fennec and the N900 screen is freaking out. | 22:16 |
| aSIMULAter | is that some new fast food joint in the US | 22:16 |
| sopi | hello, all svn repos on garage has been turned to read-only. more info here: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-October/021439.html | 22:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | aSIMULAter, not new, just mostly in the South. | 22:16 |
| aSIMULAter | oh ok | 22:16 |
| mfinkle | jeremiah: freaking out in a good way? | 22:16 |
| mfinkle | :) | 22:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Really tasty fries. ;) | 22:16 |
| jeremiah | aSIMULAter: chik fil a - a southern food joint | 22:16 |
| absolute | Heya, I'm hearing some very saddening things regarding USB Host mode... You guys know if there's still support in some manner? I know there were issues related to implementing USB OTG, but I was reading on the n810 that people got USB Host mode working using some power injector thing which looked like a usb cable with a power regulator and a 9v | 22:16 |
| Solarion | sopi: but git is still chugging along, right? | 22:16 |
| absolute | Is USB Host completely no-go in mameo 5? | 22:16 |
| jeremiah | mfinkle: Not really, weird artefacts on the screen | 22:16 |
| sopi | @Solarion: git repos are not affected. | 22:16 |
| absolute | or is it just something that's going to have to be added through software updates? | 22:16 |
| mfinkle | jeremiah: in the web content area? | 22:17 |
| jeremiah | mfinkle: No - in the background | 22:17 |
| mfinkle | jeremiah: or every where | 22:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | suihkulokki, but it's one of my personal goals to con somebody into writing a control panel for it once it gets figured out. ;) | 22:17 |
| jeremiah | really weird. | 22:17 |
| sopi | @Solarion: they are on a different server with plenty of space. | 22:17 |
| jeremiah | mfinkle: Everywhere | 22:17 |
| jeremiah | mfinkle: Have you seen this? | 22:17 |
| mfinkle | jeremiah: nope | 22:17 |
| jeremiah | I recorded it so I hope to put up a bug report and a video | 22:17 |
| mfinkle | jeremiah: I have been using a vanilla n900 - nothing much else running | 22:17 |
| aSIMULAter | i don't know absolute, can anyone answer him? | 22:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | By the way, you all need to join http://www.flickr.com/groups/1281847@N22/ | 22:17 |
| mfinkle | jeremiah: great, thanks | 22:17 |
| jeremiah | : | 22:18 |
| jeremiah | Missing a mouth | 22:18 |
| suihkulokki | GeneralAntilles: I the keymap comes from hal these days.. and I _presume_ you could change those the same way modern gnome/kde do it | 22:18 |
| jeremiah | :) | 22:18 |
| Arkenklo | hal? | 22:18 |
| lcuk | absolute, not sure - read the forums where the techs are looking, but why is this end of the world? | 22:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hardware Abstraction Layer | 22:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | suihkulokki, oh? Anything resembling documentation of any sort you could point me to? | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | setxkbmap? | 22:19 |
| absolute | Well, things like transferring recorded video and stuff to a secondary device when away from a pc | 22:19 |
| absolute | usb --> ethernet where there's no wifi access but wired accesss | 22:19 |
| absolute | things of that nature | 22:19 |
| Arkenklo | btw, is hildon based on a specific wm? | 22:19 |
| absolute | it seems like there'd be a whole variety of devices that could be useful in this manner | 22:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arkenklo, Matchbox 2. | 22:19 |
| Arkenklo | GeneralAntilles: thanks | 22:20 |
| absolute | I'm thinking of taking a long trip overseas and not having a fullblown pc at my disposal | 22:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | absolute, blame the USB Consortium for putting everything and the kitchen sink before users' interests. | 22:20 |
| suihkulokki | absolute: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020830.html | 22:20 |
| RST38h | absolute: ITEM #1: Make sure you still have data connectivity overseas | 22:20 |
| johnsq | absolute: buy a n810 | 22:20 |
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| RST38h | absolute: Otherwise your tablet becomes kinda useless | 22:20 |
| lcuk | why | 22:21 |
| absolute | not really, only for specific purposes | 22:21 |
| lcuk | i have had a tablet for 18months with no constant connectivity | 22:21 |
| RST38h | can't check email, can't read news, can't use maps | 22:21 |
| lcuk | i merely go offline when away from house | 22:21 |
| lcuk | its much more relaxing | 22:21 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But you do have a computer right? | 22:21 |
| lcuk | take a real map with you | 22:21 |
| RST38h | which has connectivity | 22:21 |
| absolute | Right, I'll have intermittent internet access, but nothing constant | 22:21 |
| lcuk | no RST38h most of the time i never have laptop or anything | 22:21 |
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| lcuk | and at the summit i had internet for just one block | 22:22 |
| absolute | i'm more into the media playing/recording functions and gps and such | 22:22 |
| RST38h | lcuk: How come you are with us? =) | 22:22 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, i told you, i hate computers | 22:22 |
| RST38h | absolute: Geotagging and maps won't work without connectivity | 22:22 |
| RST38h | lcuk: No, that was a more direct question =) | 22:22 |
| lcuk | geotagging is bloody gps | 22:22 |
| lcuk | which we have with no net | 22:22 |
| RST38h | You are on IRC somehow, ain't you? | 22:22 |
| lcuk | yes | 22:23 |
| lcuk | but home hardline is different | 22:23 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Yea, except it did not lock up for me without connectivity | 22:23 |
| absolute | i read its standalone as well as assisted-gps, so | 22:23 |
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| absolute | the post i read on maemo.org wasn't clear whether the hardware setup completely eliminated the possibility of usb host, or if it just meant a setup like people did with the 810 to effectively hack the support in | 22:23 |
| lcuk | having said that, having the phone and possibility of data is good | 22:23 |
| RST38h | lcuk: So, assisted it may be, but wherever there is no assistance it does not seem to work (n810 GPS does just slowly) | 22:23 |
| lcuk | yeah i know rst | 22:24 |
| RST38h | absolute: completely. | 22:24 |
| lcuk | when i had no credit it spent 3 hours with no lock | 22:24 |
| lcuk | when i was soaking and needing it | 22:24 |
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| RST38h | absolute: abandon all hope, it is a hardware decision (related to USB charging) | 22:24 |
| lcuk | when i got back to the hotel i got internet and grabbed the map i had forgotten | 22:24 |
| absolute | that's sad, but oh well, necessities i suppose | 22:24 |
| absolute | i hope the next iteration can do it | 22:24 |
| Arkenklo | God damn it! | 22:24 |
| jaska | hmm, no usb host? | 22:25 |
| Firebird | there such a thing as a bluetooth USB hub? | 22:25 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Then vote and comment on this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 | 22:25 |
| Arkenklo | I hope someone hacks in a second usbport directly to the chip | 22:25 |
| absolute | I dunno, there might be, but then i'd be stuck figuring out a power source for that | 22:25 |
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| * absolute shrugs | 22:26 | |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Notice that if people do not comment, it will never get confirmed | 22:26 |
| lcuk | it wont let me login | 22:26 |
| lcuk | i probably refrained from doin it at some point | 22:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | People whined for USB charging for so long. Little did they realize how much it would suck. ;) | 22:27 |
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| Arkenklo | I WANT BOTH | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Can't even charge from dumb chargers. | 22:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | USB charging is awesome | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | ly fail | 22:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Take that back | 22:27 |
| absolute | the n810 didn't charge off of usb? | 22:27 |
| lcuk | no | 22:27 |
| lcuk | usb charging FTW | 22:27 |
| slonopotamus | GeneralAntilles, no u | 22:27 |
| absolute | ahh | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | No host and you don't even get convenience from USB charging | 22:28 |
| Arkenklo | someone care to quickly sum up why usb charging exludes host? | 22:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Since you can't use any of those aftermarket chargers with USB plugs. | 22:28 |
| absolute | From what i've seen, people did get host working on the 810, contrary to your statement | 22:28 |
| Disconnect | Arkenklo: your circuitry can either accept 5v to toggle host-mode on or it can accept 5v to charge. doing both is a mess. | 22:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arkenklo, apparently they couldn't get it to play 100% nice before shipping. | 22:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arkenklo, so the plan was likely to be to ship an unofficial software update to make things work after the fact. | 22:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | But the USB Consortium said "if you ship it like this, you don't get to call it USB" | 22:29 |
| lcuk | wtf | 22:30 |
| absolute | ahh | 22:30 |
| lcuk | bugzilla wont let me login | 22:30 |
| Firebird | GeneralAntilles, the retail package has the Nokia standard plug -> USB plug adapter thing | 22:30 |
| lcuk | but i can send a password token | 22:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | So they had to disable it in hardware. | 22:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | absolute, these are the general details as I understand them anyway. | 22:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Which is to say, hearsay and a small dose of speculation. | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | "disabled in hardware" is probably that they don't have the OTG port, just regular microUSB port. | 22:31 |
| Firebird | where's my 3D drivers for maemo4 :( | 22:31 |
| ShadowJK | OTG != Host mode, btw | 22:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Firebird, give it a week or two. | 22:31 |
| Solarion | Firebird: Is this the part where I put on the Soup Nazi hat and tell you no drivers for you? | 22:31 |
| ShadowJK | The other issue could be that the USB transceiver they're using in order to support charging, doesn't let you select mode from software. In that case, even IF they had OTG working, you couldn't have used it with F-F adapter and usbcontrol, like you could do with N810. | 22:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | My general impression is that Nokia wanted to ship OTG support but due to a variety of technical complications compounded by political ones it couldn't happen. | 22:32 |
| Firebird | Solarion, no, you can eat your own hat though | 22:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, the datasheet from TI seems like it should support everything required. | 22:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | But, as you can see, I'm no expert on the subject. ;) | 22:32 |
| Solarion | Firebird: om nom nom nom | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, they are using TI's usb controller, but are they using TI's transceiver? It's probably an external transceiver? | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | or so someone said :) | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a TI transceiver. | 22:33 |
| Solarion | Barbequue makes everything better | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I have the model number here somewhere | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's in the kernel changelog. | 22:33 |
| ShadowJK | OTG/Host can't be /that/ important to people anyway... nobody has tried the drivers suggested in that big thread on tmo | 22:33 |
| ShadowJK | ;-) | 22:33 |
| ShadowJK | </troll> | 22:34 |
| absolute | on the n810, it looked like they're work around was to put the battery in the middle of the cable and to send the 3.3v (5v? either way) to both host and guest | 22:34 |
| ShadowJK | absolute, no that's 700? | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | 770 | 22:34 |
| ShadowJK | uh., right | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | N800 and N810 worked fine with a grounded 5th pin. | 22:34 |
| qwerty12_N810 | n770 | 22:34 |
| * qwerty12_N810 ducks | 22:34 | |
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| * GeneralAntilles throws food at qwerty12_N810. | 22:34 | |
| absolute | oh ok | 22:34 |
| ShadowJK | N800 and N810 has circuitry to provide power on its USB port. And they also work without grounded fifth pin with the usbcontrol software. | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or you could just switch it in software with a generic F-F adaptor. | 22:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38h: re: charging - is your comment based on more than the couple of mails to the mailing list a monthish ago? | 22:35 |
| absolute | Too bad the 800's don't have the same level of hardware as the 900 | 22:35 |
| ShadowJK | You know, I've accidentally obtained a number of USB Hubs that supply power in both directions. Cheap crap :-( | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | absolute, Nokia really needs to make an updated N800. | 22:36 |
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| wazd | GeneralAntilles: have you heard, n920 won't have a keyboard, will have 4.3" screen and will run Bora! | 22:36 |
| absolute | I guess the general thought is that 32gb + 16gb is good enough for everyone... but I'm not liking the idea of buying a bunch of $70 microSD cards | 22:36 |
| ali1234 | ShadowJK: hubs that supply power upstream are broken, but useful - i've got a nas that can be powered over it's *host only* usb port | 22:36 |
| absolute | to swap for more space | 22:37 |
| SpeedEvil | absolute: they drop in price | 22:37 |
| Shapeshifter | absolute: I for once don't ever need more then 20gb | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | absolute, then give it 6 months and buy a bunch of twice-as-large microSD cards for half the price! ;) | 22:37 |
| Shapeshifter | absolute: or 300 | 22:37 |
| absolute | hehe | 22:37 |
| Shapeshifter | but it's either less then 20 or more then 300 | 22:37 |
| SpeedEvil | The more annoying part is that SDXC cards - which will be 64G and larger - may not be compatible. | 22:37 |
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| ShadowJK | ali1234, I have a NAS that has DC port and 2 USB ports. The power on USB and DC are directly connected... Guess what happened when I hooked up that hub ;p | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | In 2 years you'll be able to get 64GB microSD cards for $20. ;) | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, how so? :) | 22:38 |
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| Shapeshifter | between is rubbish. no _real_ space for stuff, but too much for everyday stuff | 22:38 |
| absolute | I'm surprised with PUSH and all the arduino stuff that usb didn't make the grade really... | 22:38 |
| ali1234 | ShadowJK: but, for host mode on a device that doesn't supply power, you dont need to inject power into it. you just need a powered hub for downstream devices | 22:38 |
| SpeedEvil | I haven't been able to find a low-level spec for SDXC cards - and see if they are electrically backwards compatible. | 22:38 |
| absolute | So other than microSD, i really don't have any other storage options, do i? | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, SDXC is just a "let's pretend to break compatibility so we can sell more shit". | 22:38 |
| ali1234 | ShadowJK: yep, i guess mine is the same | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, they are. | 22:38 |
| crashanddie_ | Either my PS3 has learnt to read my mind | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, hell, the 770 would support SDXC if the slot were the right size. | 22:38 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: Sure - probably. I however haven't seen a low-level description of the protocol that means I can say yes or no. | 22:39 |
| crashanddie_ | Or I have a bluetooth chipset in my brain | 22:39 |
| crashanddie_ | But I was thinking "I should do some coding", and HL2 crashed | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, SDXC is just SDHC with exFAT and extra address bits enabled in the spec. | 22:39 |
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| johnsq | absolute: external wifi hdd | 22:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, Linux has support for all of the important parts. | 22:39 |
| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie_: What? It shows a picture of a dodgy Frenchman? | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, just minus exFAT. | 22:39 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: It's also faster enough that it implies it has a different access mode too. And there are other indications. | 22:39 |
| absolute | johnsq: i guess that also assumes that i have access to an outlet at the time too, unfortunately | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | You'll be able to run 2TB cards in your N800 as long as you use something besides exFAT. | 22:39 |
| lcuk | RST38h, confirmed | 22:40 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: If it mandates backwards compatibility in the cards is something I haven't seen any docs on - and I've looked. | 22:40 |
| crashanddie_ | qwerty12_N810, I may be dodgy, and of an unclassifiable nationality, but at least I don't freeze up in public and can stand next to someone without fidgeting like a 6 year old | 22:40 |
| jeremiah | Is there a key combo on the N900 that takes a screen shot? | 22:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ctrl-shift-p | 22:40 |
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| jeremiah | Thanks GeneralAntilles | 22:41 |
| crashanddie_ | qwerty12_N810, so get the fuck out with your lame character, and go back to the qwerty a lot of people appreciated | 22:41 |
| absolute | nice | 22:41 |
| Arkenklo | I hope Nokia wont fix the host problem and release a version that supports it, because I wont be able to buy it | 22:41 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: By backwards compatibility, I mean something that's just firmware to add support for in 99% of hardware. | 22:41 |
| crashanddie_ | qwerty12_N810, because at the moment, with your snarky remarks and stupid behaviour, you're making people think a lot of shit about you, so get a fucking grip q | 22:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: ? | 22:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, a touchy tonight? ;) | 22:42 |
| * lcuk doesnt think any less of qwerty | 22:42 | |
| GeneralAntilles | bit+ | 22:42 |
| absolute | Right, i'm just saying, if the n900 doesn't in some way gain support through hacks, I hope the next device in the series will have support and i can swap at that point | 22:42 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Nah, fair points | 22:42 |
| absolute | like this rumored 920, | 22:42 |
| absolute | or whatever is the flagship for maemo6 | 22:42 |
| Arkenklo | absolute: I don't, because I won't be able to swap | 22:42 |
| Arkenklo | if I can't have it nobody can | 22:42 |
| absolute | hehe | 22:43 |
| Shapeshifter | rumors are like god. | 22:43 |
| Shapeshifter | so we don't really need them. | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | we all know it's n1000 gruntmaster | 22:43 |
| crashanddie_ | Shapeshifter, very powerful but nobody knows who started spreading the word? | 22:43 |
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| lcuk | im holding out for the N'over9000' series | 22:43 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie_: for example! | 22:43 |
| aSIMULAter | N9billionmillionzillion | 22:43 |
| Arkenklo | lcuk: the N770? | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | one thing is for certain | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | any next device is N00. | 22:44 |
| lcuk | o_O aSIMULAter my sorta thinkin | 22:44 |
| aSIMULAter | ;) | 22:44 |
| lcuk | i keep wanting to scratch a 7 after mine | 22:44 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Vote for it too =) | 22:44 |
| SpeedEvil | NA00 | 22:44 |
| lcuk | Noo7 | 22:44 |
| RST38h | And thanks | 22:44 |
| lcuk | N007 even | 22:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | N008 | 22:44 |
| RST38h | Maemo6 is QT based. | 22:44 |
| Arkenklo | I'd too like a Nokia NA00 | 22:44 |
| RST38h | Maemo7 will come with a syringe | 22:44 |
| lcuk | whos got a blank fronted n900 | 22:45 |
| lcuk | RST38h, nahhh | 22:45 |
| lcuk | startrek hyponeedle thing | 22:45 |
| crashanddie_ | maemo7 won't come | 22:45 |
| crashanddie_ | it'll be downloaded to your mind directly | 22:45 |
| crashanddie_ | it'll just sorta kinda "be there" | 22:45 |
| Shapeshifter | I heard the n920 will come with a gun. | 22:45 |
| RST38h | through an injection into the spinal cord | 22:45 |
| crashanddie_ | and all of your memories from before will have maemo6 in them | 22:45 |
| RST38h | a laser gun | 22:45 |
| RST38h | it will make you think it has a dpad. | 22:46 |
| aSIMULAter | cool i need a laser gun | 22:46 |
| * lcuk expects http://10.0.0.1/harmattan.install | 22:46 | |
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| lcuk | and as its "the final step" it should do like lawnmower man and ring all the phones | 22:47 |
| frals | jesus 5 pages of unread topics since last visit... | 22:47 |
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| Shapeshifter | I find it very odd that maemo ships without man pages | 22:48 |
| Shapeshifter | how is that possible | 22:48 |
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| Shapeshifter | how will one ever be able to say rtfm with this | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | Shapeshifter: docpurge, manpage? | 22:48 |
| Arkenklo | Shapeshifter: surely they're available as a package? | 22:48 |
| Shapeshifter | it's anarchy | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | manpurge | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | Arkenklo: they are offered as a download somewhere | 22:49 |
| Arkenklo | well then | 22:49 |
| Arkenklo | obviously, they're not included for space-reasons | 22:49 |
| Arkenklo | space reasons | 22:49 |
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| Arkenklo | memory-space reasons | 22:49 |
| SpeedEvil | It also doesn't have a compiler. | 22:50 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a travesty! | 22:50 |
| ali1234 | +1 | 22:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Or is it a phone. | 22:50 |
| Shapeshifter | du -sh /usr/share/man/ /home/shapeshifter | 22:50 |
| Shapeshifter | 56M/usr/share/man | 22:50 |
| suihkulokki | apparently gps is not easy on competitor camp either: http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/webos-internals/palm-pre-gps-error.html | 22:50 |
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| Shapeshifter | and that's all languages | 22:51 |
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| crashanddie_ | dayum | 22:53 |
| crashanddie_ | I'm an idiot | 22:53 |
| Stskeeps | suihkulokki: neat | 22:53 |
| Arkenklo | my current portable computer slash phone sure doesn't include a compiler either | 22:54 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, voted sir | 22:55 |
| ShadowJK | suihkulokki, lol | 22:56 |
| * GeneralAntilles sighs. | 22:57 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | SSHed into my N900 and trying to figure out where I left it. | 22:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | It was in my pocket. . . . | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | hah | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | never complain about the thickness again. | 22:58 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 22:58 |
| fiferboy | personal-gprs-mon just got even better :) | 22:58 |
| absolute | hah | 22:58 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: I'd have just phoned it..... | 22:59 |
| ShadowJK | phone a computer? you're crazy | 22:59 |
| Arkenklo | if you forget again, just ssh in and make it ding | 22:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, well, I was prodding at things in SSH and wondering where it was. | 22:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not necessarily sshed in for the purposes of finding it. ;) | 22:59 |
| lardman | switch on GPS, wait for lock, ...? ;) | 22:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 22:59 |
| ShadowJK | wont work indoors :) | 23:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Cellular connectivity does kind of mess up the "it must be in the building" thing. | 23:00 |
| lardman | give it time | 23:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | "It's somewhere in the country." | 23:00 |
| lardman | the Nokians said that wifi AP recognition would come | 23:00 |
| lardman | or so I remember | 23:00 |
| lardman | so at least you'll know it's in the house somewhere | 23:00 |
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| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, yeah but you probably can't predict the IP when it's on gprs anyway | 23:01 |
| * GeneralAntilles isn't divining any secrets from hal. | 23:01 | |
| ShadowJK | /3g | 23:01 |
| Arkenklo | I'd be scared if I didn't know that... | 23:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, need to set up dydns on it. . . . | 23:01 |
| SpeedEvil | You can rarely make inbound connections anyway | 23:01 |
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| Stskeeps | ssh tunnel on network up is better | 23:02 |
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| * GeneralAntilles doesn't actually have a use-case for it anyway. | 23:02 | |
| Arkenklo | I can't wait until I get my n900 to have some fun with that sweet sweet root shell | 23:02 |
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| Arkenklo | what the.. | 23:03 |
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| Arkenklo | n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil | 23:03 |
| Arkenklo | how do you do that? | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | "wifi ap recognition"? Isn't that just: iwconfig 2>&1 |awk '/.Access/ { print $6}' | 23:03 |
| * GeneralAntilles wants the freaking maemo.org group contact to be processed already. | 23:03 | |
| fiferboy | Hmm, desktop widgets get added to the desktop before the postinst script gets run... | 23:03 |
| * ShadowJK has been able to make inbound connections on all cellphone operators here :/ | 23:04 | |
| GeneralAntilles | A year on the council and Freenode couldn't even managed to do it in that timeframe. | 23:04 |
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| fiferboy | That means if you use any icons in the widget, they won't show up until the widget is removed and readded | 23:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, nice. | 23:04 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, lovely | 23:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bug time? | 23:04 |
| fiferboy | Since the gtk-update-icon-cache gets run in postinst | 23:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Arkenklo: lilo set it some time ago. | 23:04 |
| Arkenklo | nice | 23:05 |
| fiferboy | I check to see if anyone has reported that | 23:05 |
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| * GeneralAntilles keeps getting LinkedIn contact requests from random students with Arabic sounding names at the university. . . . | 23:06 | |
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| absolute | Nice, although i don't know if this will be a feasible solution since the microSD is tucked away behind the battery cover | 23:07 |
| absolute | http://mobile.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/item/Mobidapter.php | 23:07 |
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| ShadowJK | that's just mass-storage to microsd adapter.. not generic usb :P | 23:09 |
| * fiferboy wonders about having the postinst script remove and add the widget after the cache update... | 23:10 | |
| johnsq | absolute: a little expensive get a smartq s5 for that money | 23:10 |
| fiferboy | postinst isn't supposed to touch user files, correct? | 23:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | absolute, yeah, not gonna work. | 23:10 |
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| crashanddie_ | ideas? http://slexy.org/view/s2i3cQilmD | 23:11 |
| absolute | fair enough | 23:11 |
| fiferboy | jeremiah: ping? | 23:12 |
| lcuk | crashanddie_, looks like the munging has messed up | 23:12 |
| * lcuk hasnt actually seen the symbol table for c++ in a long time, but that brings back many memories | 23:12 | |
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| jeremiah | fiferboy: pong | 23:13 |
| fiferboy | jeremiah: Is postinst allowed to touch user files? | 23:13 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, not really | 23:13 |
| lcuk | since your app is expected to run in multiple user accounts and will most likely be running in user account which is != end user account | 23:13 |
| jeremiah | fiferboy: I will see if I can find the relevant policy . . . | 23:14 |
| fiferboy | jeremiah: Thanks | 23:14 |
| johnsq | fiferboy: you should make a wrapper arround the application which does the job | 23:14 |
| fiferboy | I have a feeling lcuk is right, although maemo doesn't really act like a multi-user system | 23:14 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, installation occurs under root | 23:15 |
| lcuk | therefore ~ is /root | 23:15 |
| lcuk | and you mucking with files wont work | 23:15 |
| lcuk | cos when run normally its /home/user | 23:15 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: And I guess hardcoding /home/user isn't the best idea :) | 23:15 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, and many others will shout | 23:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | OK, look at the alpha blending on this: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup-schnict.mov | 23:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Should I try to normalize it more so the e and the ma mo fade in at the same apparent speed? | 23:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or just leave it as-is. | 23:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's kind of a cool effect, but I'm having trouble seeing past the "knowing it's actually a defect" bit. | 23:17 |
| lcuk | over analysing lol | 23:17 |
| lcuk | looks cool tho | 23:17 |
| lcuk | much nicer than the waving in one | 23:17 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, how about having the ae appear at the same time, and the rest later? | 23:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, interesting. | 23:18 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: you should cooperate with Michael Bay :D | 23:18 |
| lcuk | haha | 23:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, did you see the updated zoom in one? | 23:18 |
| lcuk | guns and 'splosions | 23:18 |
| jeremiah | fiferboy: The policy document does not really have a lot to say about user files, although it seems to imply you can touch them | 23:19 |
| lcuk | i saw a few, i like this more than any of them tho | 23:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup3.mov | 23:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like the concept on this, but the camera path is kind of uninteresting. | 23:19 |
| lcuk | jeremiah, in debian, whats the score when installing - since you can easily have a machine with 100+ users on | 23:19 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: why white bckgrnd btw? | 23:19 |
| fiferboy | jeremiah: Thanks. It would be easy in our one-user system, but a headache in a true multi-user environment | 23:19 |
| * Stskeeps objects to touching /home/user and /home/user/MyDocs in postinst | 23:19 | |
| lcuk | how would a postinst much around with them | 23:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe I need to do a 2001-style monolith move in. :D | 23:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wazd, just because I like the white ones more. | 23:20 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: THIS. IS. MAEMO!!!!!!!!! | 23:20 |
| * lcuk agrees with Stskeeps | 23:20 | |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup-schnict-black.mov | 23:20 |
| javispedro | ;) | 23:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | If you prefer. | 23:20 |
| lcuk | this might be maemo | 23:20 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: black would look better on n900 imo | 23:20 |
| lcuk | but have app pull its data from central when run is best | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | especially since harmattan will have multiuser stuff in security stuff | 23:20 |
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| lcuk | and even gets round issue of clean/new user | 23:20 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: but you're the boss :D | 23:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, I'll probably ship both. | 23:21 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, this security stuff wrinkles my forehead | 23:21 |
| lcuk | it does not sound linuy | 23:21 |
| lcuk | linuxy | 23:21 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: I'll have to look at the relevant debian policy. | 23:21 |
| lcuk | thx jeremiah | 23:21 |
| jeremiah | Which is good because it is probably the default maemo policy when nothing is specified by maemo | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, it looks saneish so far | 23:22 |
| lcuk | it looks like dualboot between windows/linux to me | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | nah | 23:22 |
| lcuk | reboot to switch modes is one of the things in the wiki | 23:23 |
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| javispedro | between drm/sane mode I guess. | 23:23 |
| lcuk | if it was VMware type instaswitch i might agree | 23:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, that's correct. | 23:23 |
| Stskeeps | it was actually interesting.. community kernels can select own policy | 23:23 |
| * GeneralAntilles is nuking it ASAP. | 23:24 | |
| Stskeeps | and then it becomes a security tool | 23:24 |
| javispedro | were the security slides or some more description uploaded? | 23:24 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_security | 23:24 |
| javispedro | lcuk: a, ta! | 23:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, can you try to enforce proper comment threading and signing on that page? | 23:25 |
| lbt | is video up yet? | 23:26 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: why not | 23:26 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: Ah, good. Thanks for confirming | 23:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, I believe that point in in the introduction of the Maemo packaging policy, actually. :D | 23:28 |
| jeremiah | I think you are right. :) | 23:28 |
| wazd | maybe I can make a movie for Mer too :) | 23:29 |
| wazd | but it should be 2h long and with Brad Pitt :D | 23:29 |
| Stskeeps | fight club? | 23:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | This plat sec stuff leaves me with a nasty feeling in the pit of my stomach. | 23:29 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: sure :) | 23:30 |
| javispedro | GAN: Mine does that too, even with the "community kernel will be open" stuff. | 23:30 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: from a person who is normally very cautious about this stuff, i am fairly happy. | 23:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | This just seems like a bad road to be going down. | 23:30 |
| Stskeeps | i can see why its needed in long long term. | 23:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Opens up lots of doors to evil things. | 23:31 |
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| fiferboy | Hmm, I can make it so the widget doesn't appear on the desktop on install | 23:31 |
| lcuk | it feels like the worst level of Microsoft Palladium | 23:31 |
| fiferboy | (actually, appears and then disappears) | 23:31 |
| fiferboy | I was hoping to make it dissapear then reappear | 23:31 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, why tho | 23:32 |
| lcuk | if you can see - please explain | 23:32 |
| fiferboy | Does anyone know the mechanism that triggers a widget to get added to the desktop on install? | 23:32 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, when devices are promiscious like people were in the sixties hard enforced security will be needed and untrusted processes. | 23:32 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, best guess, inotify on the folder watching for .desktop items or the .so | 23:32 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Doesn't look like the desktop folder (I just tried that :) | 23:33 |
| fiferboy | I'll try the .so folder | 23:33 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, so this platform is gonna be locked down tighter than the iphone | 23:33 |
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| * lbt does a double take at Stskeeps' analogy between 60's "free love" and Aigis security.... | 23:34 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, think it's probably Hildon Home. | 23:34 |
| lcuk | cos rebooting isnt an option. "oh, hold on a minute whilst i reboot and run XYZ app" | 23:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | spinnukur has a sick mind. | 23:35 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, no, less actually. its hardware enforced security. they say it themselves, ability to define own policies | 23:36 |
| Stskeeps | drm is one policy which nokias kernel implements | 23:36 |
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| lcuk | so can we expect a sane mer where i can run homebrew and make calls and do the sort of stuff i can do today? | 23:37 |
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| Stskeeps | as i can read it, yes | 23:37 |
| javispedro | but I don't see how it will any different than jailbreaking | 23:37 |
| lcuk | but my homebrew wont be signed | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | snd? | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | and? | 23:37 |
| lcuk | jailbreaking isnt wanted if you want your mum to use it | 23:37 |
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| lcuk | my app wont have rights to use XYZ platform feature | 23:38 |
| Stskeeps | then give it | 23:38 |
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| Stskeeps | always selfsigned stuff.. | 23:38 |
| Solarion | what are "favourites"? | 23:38 |
| javispedro | Software freedom lovers, here comes Maemo 5. Software freedom haters, here comes Maemo 6. As for the rest, there's always MasterCard. | 23:38 |
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| Solarion | as long as there's an off switch | 23:39 |
| Stskeeps | i personally think their platform security is the least evil way i have seen | 23:39 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: in a smartphone. | 23:39 |
| Solarion | I see that people have favourites, but I've no idea what they are and do | 23:39 |
| lcuk | arent we already protected now? | 23:39 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldnt mind same security on my wall display. | 23:40 |
| lcuk | as a normal user cant change vital OS components | 23:40 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk, a package can technically damage your device | 23:40 |
| javispedro | what I hate is that user security is usually mixed with DRM. | 23:40 |
| javispedro | so you get both or none. | 23:40 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: in this case it has open api it seems | 23:41 |
| lcuk | thats the operating systems job to prevent malicious argument passing | 23:41 |
| javispedro | malicious argument passing lol | 23:41 |
| javispedro | argument antivirus xd | 23:41 |
| Arkenklo | it's best to keep your device turned off and without battery, because otherwise it might not work when it's supposed to | 23:41 |
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| javispedro | Arkenklo: and frozen. and encaged in a box with a metter of cement. and in the middle of siberia. | 23:41 |
| lcuk | javispedro, setting the CRT refresh rate and frequencies at a low level could at one time potentially blow the monitor | 23:41 |
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| Arkenklo | in linux, you are what prevents malicious arguments from passing | 23:42 |
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| javispedro | lcuk: that was (relatively) long time ago. | 23:42 |
| javispedro | but there's still ways to do soemthing like that, I get the point. | 23:42 |
| lcuk | yeah but then when fixed, no matter what args or functions were called from user space to the OS were safe | 23:42 |
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| Stskeeps | frankly, i would like to let some apps from my visitors run inside my home, but they need fine grained access controls | 23:43 |
| lcuk | give them a user account | 23:43 |
| lcuk | like now | 23:43 |
| Arkenklo | Stskeeps: does your house run linux? | 23:43 |
| Stskeeps | i shouldnt be worried about them reading my data or reverse | 23:44 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, im not anti security, i just dont like DRM and palladium style cybercop | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | oh, i hate drm | 23:44 |
| lcuk | but thats what you are advocating | 23:45 |
| Stskeeps | but i see benefits of this in other scenarios | 23:45 |
| Stskeeps | but i see benefits of this in other scenarios | 23:45 |
| Stskeeps | no, trusted computing | 23:45 |
| Stskeeps | or htf its called | 23:45 |
| * lcuk nods | 23:45 | |
| lcuk | when your users connect to your box by ssh now | 23:45 |
| lcuk | and have access to a user account | 23:45 |
| lcuk | how can they access your data | 23:46 |
| Stskeeps | they can poke about easily | 23:46 |
| lcuk | sure - but not in my ~ | 23:46 |
| lcuk | unless i give them permission | 23:47 |
| Arkenklo | chmod g+r file | 23:47 |
| Stskeeps | and this is only on fs level | 23:47 |
| Disconnect | not all of your data is in ~. and not all systems are perfectly secure. | 23:47 |
| Arkenklo | and add the users to the group | 23:47 |
| lcuk | Disconnect, yes - security holes exist | 23:47 |
| lcuk | they can be fixed without needing to reboot to run a different app | 23:47 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, you are overinterpreting their statements | 23:48 |
| lcuk | ive read about this level of security for years | 23:48 |
| Stskeeps | nothing stops us from running homebrew in drm mode | 23:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I do hope they have provision for getting it unlocked if your network provider won't cooperate | 23:49 |
| cirzgamanti | does anybody know if you can ssh to a N900 ? (i'd think yes, but better ask. a friend wants to buy one, and i don't know much about it yet) | 23:49 |
| lcuk | yes | 23:49 |
| Arkenklo | cirzgamanti: yes, you can | 23:49 |
| lcuk | install openssh | 23:49 |
| Arkenklo | openssh-server | 23:49 |
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| cirzgamanti | anything that you'd miss compared to a standard desktop install? :) | 23:50 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, probably better just to not buy locked. :/ | 23:50 |
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| cirzgamanti | it's running Oo.o i heard | 23:50 |
| cirzgamanti | gimp, too? :) | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | locked sim is a contractual issue | 23:50 |
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| Arkenklo | cirzgamanti: I can't confirm this, but I think you get all the regular stuff | 23:51 |
| Arkenklo | afaik the n900 is just like a regular linux computer | 23:51 |
| lbt | OK - so I finally typed "sudo gainroot"... and got "Enable RD mode if you want to break your device" what's that then? | 23:51 |
| cirzgamanti | well yes, with 256M RAM :) | 23:51 |
| javispedro | lbt: guess you need to get rootsh package from extras. | 23:52 |
| Arkenklo | 256 mb is plenty | 23:52 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, install rootsh | 23:53 |
| lbt | that's interesting | 23:53 |
| Stskeeps | no, normal | 23:53 |
| lbt | will Extras be enabled in closed mode? | 23:53 |
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| Arkenklo | and 768 mb swap is excessive | 23:54 |
| ShadowJK | you mean drm mode? | 23:54 |
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| lbt | yes drm mode | 23:56 |
| Arkenklo | is it possible to add the debian repositories and install from those? | 23:57 |
| lbt | Arkenklo: no | 23:58 |
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| Arkenklo | oh noes D: | 23:58 |
| Arkenklo | lbt: why not, specifically? | 23:58 |
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