IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-10-11

qwerty12_N810Shapeshifter: Looking at, that should be passed for you automatically00:01
ShapeshifterI see. thanks.00:01
johnqIs there some document describing the limitations of the maemo platform (i.e. automatically accepting calls, playing sounds inside of calls, replacing system components, ...)?00:03
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GAN800God god Ovi Maps is completely and utterly useless.00:22
* Firebird is about to burn a 180mb image onto a 4.7GB DVD :o00:23
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qwerty12_N810At least the Maemo Mapper author has declared his intentions to make a Fremantle version...00:26
Stskeepsthank god for that00:26
cvandonderen_what was the deal again with scratchbox and the DNS?00:26
cvandonderen_it cannot resolve anything00:27
Stskeepscheck /scratchbox/etc/resolf.conf00:28
cvandonderen_Stskeeps: it seems to be the nsswitch, found it00:29
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cvandonderen_aw, not00:30
cvandonderen_in reolv.conf it has:00:30
zgold_has anybody been able to load python widgets to the desktop in fremantle?00:30
qwerty12_N810zgold_: I believe there's a bug open about that00:31
zgold_ahhhh ok00:31
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zgold_google seemed to indicate i wasnt alone00:31
tekoniveljust toke this photo:
tekonivelneighbour doesn't realize his/her data projection leaks out the window00:32
zgold_do you know if text entry is possible in adesktop widget?00:32
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tekonivelit doesn't look large it in photo, bu it is (compare with the windows) xD lol00:32
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qwerty12_N810zgold_: No, that's a restriction of a desktop widget I believe00:32
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tekoniveleveryone will know if he/she si watching p0rn00:33
tekonivelit's just a small part of the screen, maybe 1/15 of the screen, but a lol nevertheles00:34
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zgold_qwerty12_N810: tyvm.. you've been most helpful.  are yo at the summit?00:36
qwerty12_N810zgold_: Nope :)00:37
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, it's like it was ported by a class of 3rd graders.00:37
zgold_aw ok, ill have to thank you in person next year00:37
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cvandonderen_hmm, my DNS still doesn't work, even after switching the nameserver to the one my host also uses....00:38
cvandonderen_in the armel target00:38
qwerty12_N810Like Stskeeps said, did you also look at /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf ?00:39
cvandonderen_qwerty12_N810: yes00:40
cvandonderen_that was00:40
cvandonderen_and then I changed it to nameserver (what my host has)00:40
cvandonderen_and it still doesn't work00:40
Shapeshifter the checkbox shows up fine, any clues why hildon_check_button_get_active doesn't return TRUE or FALSE?00:40
Shapeshifteroh I think I know why... it's a gboolean, not a gboolean*00:44
Shapeshifterthat's a bother.00:45
Shapeshifteryet another signal for something trivial.00:45
Shapeshifterwell with text entries I can simply do: creds->username = gtk_entry_get_text(username_field); and later do g_signal_connect (creds_dialog, "response", G_CALLBACK (process_creds), creds); and when the signal gets emited "process_creds" receives the pointer to the content of the field and everything is nice00:46
Shapeshifterbut I can't just do creds->save = hildon_check_button_get_active(save_password_checkbox); like the others00:46
Shapeshifterbecause it's not a pointer and now I have to make a function for the "toggled" signal to switch creds->save00:47
javispedroShapeshifter: you shouldn't do that.00:48
Shapeshifterjavispedro: what should I do?00:48
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javispedrothe pointer returned by gtk_entry_get_text may get invalid whenever gtk wants.00:48
Shapeshifterjavispedro: why?00:48
javispedrobecause gtk may realloc it, for example.00:49
Shapeshifterit's in a dialog00:49
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javispedroif the user decides to write 1000 chars between you getting the pointer and the user clicking OK -> crash.00:49
Shapeshifterand if the user clicks "proceed" I'm checking if the two entry fields are empty and if not I save them somewhere00:49
Shapeshifterbut that is insane... what should I do then?00:49
ShapeshifterI mean, I need to access the content of the fields somehow >.>00:50
Shapeshifterand pass them on to a callback00:50
javispedrohow are you calling the dialog? gtk_dialog_run?00:50
ShapeshifterI'll just pass the dialog00:50
Shapeshifteror rather, the dialog gets passed anyway00:51
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Shapeshiftermhh. but the dialog doesn't really have the fields as children00:51
Shapeshifterhow complicated.00:51
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javispedroso either you save references to widgets and use them to read dialog controls state, or you connect all "changed" signals and replicate the dialog's controls state.00:52
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Shapeshifterso it doesn't just realloc widgets?00:57
Shapeshifterbut widget content.00:57
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GeneralAntillesGoogle Voice really has trouble with names.01:04
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johnqIs there some chance to get usb host mode for the n900 (with a software update)? The Openmoko Freerunner also has host mode with a simple mini connector.01:07
GeneralAntillesCurrently it seems like the answer is no.01:07
GeneralAntillesBut that may be more short answer = no.01:08
Shapeshifterjohnq: roumored to be possible ^^01:08
SpeedEviljohnq: It seems logical that it is plausible with a cable.01:08
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, OTG isn't supported.01:08
SpeedEviljohnq: However - the exact details yes or no have not been revealed.01:08
GeneralAntillesand the USB consortium was evil about things.01:08
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: how so?01:08
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: yes - OTG and 'switch the CPU to host mode, which happens to use the same pins as slave mode' are different things01:08
GeneralAntillesThey couldn't get it to play right with USB charging and were planning on releasing an update afterwards, but I think the USB consortium told them to kill any possibility in hardware or they wouldn't certify the device.01:09
GeneralAntillesSo, yeah, unknown right now.01:09
SpeedEvilIf you're still talking about the couple of mails that were on the list a while back - I read them as a bit ambiguous.01:09
SpeedEvilneed more data.01:10
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Shapeshifterthis makes me not like usb anymore.01:13
javispedroyou liked usb? bah.01:14
javispedroit's the usual result of the "worse is better" rule.01:14
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Shapeshifterfrom a user perspective, the only dumb thing about usb was that it's hard to plug em in blindly >.>01:15
Shapeshifterother then that, "it just works"01:15
Shapeshifter"almost everywhere"01:15
johnqyes, OTG is not so important, host mode with some hardware adaptor would be enough01:15
Mekusb you can at least not plug in blindly in the wrong way... I once ruined a fireware controller by plugging in a firewire cable blindly the wrong way around...01:15
* timeless waves from ibis01:15
* Mek waves back from ibis01:16
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GeneralAntillesMek, how in the world did you manage that?01:16
GeneralAntillestimeless, where'd you end up?01:16
Mekjust push hard enough? a firewire cable does fitthe wrong way arround if you apply enough forc...01:17
GeneralAntillesAh, in my room, I see. ;)01:17
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EspadaV8nice :)01:18
timelesssome place01:18
Shapeshiftermeh, plasma. but nice, sort of...01:18
MekEspadaV8: ah, my blog post hit a planet I guess... :)01:18
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EspadaV8that's you Mek01:19
MekEspadaV8: yeah01:19
Shapeshifterhuh, "all attendents"? you all got one?01:19
* EspadaV8 wish he had one for 6 months :(01:20
EspadaV8mine has to go back on wednesday :(01:20
* qwerty12_N810 has one for a year01:20
* Corsac doesn't have any01:22
Corsacand still no official release date?01:23
GAN800Rumors say October01:23
EspadaV8yeah, it's getting late in the month, esp if they were only giving away pre-production phones01:24
javispedroenjoying your pacts with the devil I guess?01:24
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Shapeshiftercreds_dialog = gtk_dialog_new_with_buttons("Please enter credentials", info->window, GTK_DIALOG_DESTROY_WITH_PARENT, "Proceed", 12, NULL); any idea why the response seems to be -3 when I click on "Proceed"?01:30
Shapeshifterit should be 12.01:30
Shapeshifterit's also -3 when I click outside the dialog (to close it)01:31
Shapeshiftermuch rather... nevermind01:31
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Shapeshiftermy mistake >.>01:31
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GAN800EspadaV8, I wouldn't extrapolate too much from that.01:35
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GAN800zerojay, damnit, forgot to take a picture again.02:14
ShapeshifterI have a problem reading from gconf. I get some stuff from text entry fields and they come out well. At some point, I write them to gconf, and if I do gconftool --all-entries /apps/my-app then I see that both strings look fine and are there. but if I then read from gconf in my app, which I do according to some nokia wiki tutorial, out of foo and bar becoms:  0Ï,  Ï02:14
GAN800I made really amazing fried chicken, too.02:14
ShapeshifterI read with: GConfValue *value; value = gconf_client_get_without_default(client, USERNAME, NULL); if(value->type == GCONF_VALUE_STRING) {creds->username = gconf_value_get_string(value);}02:14
Shapeshifteroh and it's something different everytime, that it reads.02:17
Shapeshiftermh, nevermind I solved it by not using the macro string.02:20
Macerre-installing the tb os again02:20
zerojayGAN800: lol02:20
EspadaV8is it possible to get an install queue in the app manager?02:20
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EspadaV8rather than installing one thing at a time?02:20
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ShapeshifterEspadaV8: I think not. You could just use apt-get02:22
EspadaV8something that really needs to be added02:23
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* GAN800 is now drunk after one beer.02:24
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qwerty12_N810GAN800 <- Perfect representative for Florida in any drinking contest02:25
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* b-man16 ´s cat just knocked his external harddrive off the table O.O02:27
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SpeedEvilb-man16: annoyingcat is annoying.02:29
Maceri sure could go for maemo5 on the touchbook02:29
EspadaV8man, i love this n90002:29
SpeedEvilnow back in the day, you'd have needed a lion to even be able to slightly tilt a hard drive.02:29
* b-man16 wants one soooooooooooo bad02:29
MacerEspadaV8: havfe they been released?02:30
Maceror did you get one for free by nokia? :)02:30
EspadaV8it's just awesome having linux on a phone02:30
SpeedEvilSome escaped.02:30
EspadaV8Macer: no :(02:30
EspadaV8not yet02:30
* SpeedEvil has linux on his phone.02:30
* Macer has linux on his g1 also :)02:30
SpeedEvilAnd has had for a couple of years.02:30
SpeedEvilOf course, it's not very polished.02:30
Macereven if it has a crappy fake java based wm02:30
Macerthe black girl from battleship galactica has pretty eyes02:31
Maceri've never met a black girl with blue eyes02:31
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Macera few with green eyes.. but never blue... someone needs to breed a blue eyed black girl :)02:32
SpeedEvilI'll give it a shot.02:32
b-man16red eyes! 8D02:32
Macerb-man16: no.. actually02:32
Macerthere are a ton of black girls with red eyes02:33
Macerhaven't you ever met albino black women?02:33 xD02:33
Maceri've met a few every now and then02:33
Macerthey have red eyes02:33
EspadaV8only thing i've noticed with it is playing podcasts, it sometimes stops for a second when i'm doing other things02:33
Maceri've met a few black girls with green eyes but they are usually dominican or puerto rican02:33
EspadaV8when i get my own i can see myself having to re-flash it weekly02:35
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GAN800qwerty12, you should see the frat boys knock 'em back here.02:35
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GAN800It's . . . excessive.02:35
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* b-man16 sucks at using launchpad :(02:37
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GAN800LaunchPad been open sourced yet?02:38
b-man16 -top of page02:38
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Shapeshifterlol. now my app segfaults when I do client = gconf_client_get_default();02:41
Shapeshifterexactly there.02:41
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Shapeshifterthis is almost impossible02:44
* b-man16 wonders if infobot till has the burn command....02:46
b-man16~burn himself02:46
* infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze02:46
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b-man16GAN800: so how is it down there in Florida? :)02:53
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EspadaV8Shapeshifter: that's gtk for ya ;-)02:58
* qwerty12_N810 has never had gconf_client_get_default(); and his GTK knowledge is shit03:00
Macergot my tb going good again03:01
Shapeshifterit was due to some other code _after_ return; in that function. I'm too used to python, where code that comes after a return _wont_ be handled at all. not like C, where buggy code after a return still gets attention...03:01
Maceri should try to compile something to see if gcc is messed up03:01
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* b-man16 ´s scratchbox segfaulted on him...... lol03:04
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b-man16¨/scratchbox/login: Segmentation Fault¨03:10
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GAN800b-man16, it got hot again.03:13
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lopzI modified some files for some time but can not remember which, I want the NON-modal windows.03:31
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ShapeshifterIsn't it possible to "grey out" a hildon button?03:44
Shapeshifterfound it. gtk_widget_set_sensitive ()03:47
EspadaV8don't you love it when you realise you've got classes that just aren't used anywhere by anything03:49
EspadaV8and are basically just copies of other classes from elsewhere :-S03:49
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Maceroh yeah04:06
Macertotally maxing out the touchbook04:06
Macerthe touchbook.. the poor man's n900 :)04:07
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wiretappedMacer: how is it?04:07
* wiretapped didn't know they finally shippped04:07
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Macerwiretapped: it's ok04:10
Macerobviously not as fast as an atom but fast enough04:10
Macerbattery life is great04:10
Macerbut the os needs a ton of work04:10
Macersuch as proper power management.. but i think that is more of a kernel issue04:10
Macerhopefuloly the arm netbook stuff will develop a little more04:11
Macerthe touchscreen on it totally sucks and i'm not sure if that is the screen itself or a matter of software calibration of it04:11
Macerthe mouse jumps around like a wiimote :)04:11
timelesshello world04:13
timelessimagine you have a web browser04:13
timelessyou open two browser windows04:13
SpeedEvilMacer: I hope it's the first of many.04:13
SpeedEvilx68 sucks.04:13
timelessin the first you visit google.com04:13
timelessin the second cnn.com04:14
timelessin the first you visit
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timelessin the second aol.com04:14
MacerSpeedEvil: hope so04:14
timelessin the first you visit youtube.com04:14
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Maceri would hav eliked to see it go a little faster than 600MHz04:14
GAN800timeless, does spacebar scrolling work in either of them? :P04:15
timelesswhat would you call a view that lists, but not,aol.com04:15
timelessgimme a break04:15
timelessthis is one browser process on one device04:16
Macerthe tb os could use a little work04:16
Macerit's relaly just angstrom with xfce04:16
timelesswe want to sleep04:16
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timelessis zenity in extras?04:17
GAN800timeless, 'history'?04:17
timelessgan800: wouldn't that include the two i excluded?04:17
GAN800Thus the quotes?04:17
GAN800Revisionist History?04:21
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timelessso... zenity04:38
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GAN800Take your pick, don't see it in Fremantle.04:42
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timelesscan you grab it from mer and push it to extras-devel?04:50
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timelessthe control panel has a widget that lets you select pal/ntsc04:55
timelessshould the item be 'tv output' or 'tv out' or something else04:56
guysoft42hey all, in debian, when installing the maemo sdk, does it only install files to /opt/maemo ?05:01
guysoft42if i want ot uninstall it, should i just remove that?05:01
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XisdibikHey GAN800 are you around?05:33
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b-man16 :)05:41
Xisdibik:), no idea what that is b-man1605:48
Xisdibikbut, which distro of linux are you using?05:48
b-man16ubuntu, and that is the Emelfm2 file manager running in the Freemantle :)05:51
Xisdibikah ok :)05:51
XisdibikDo you know how well ubuntu will sync up with fremantle?05:52
b-man16in what way?05:52
EspadaV8b-man16: have you tried running Xephyr with -extension  Composite?05:52
b-man16i think i have05:53
EspadaV8did it work?05:53
b-man16i believe so05:53
EspadaV8running start (or whatever it is) and i get nothing05:54
XisdibikWell, I have a netbook, a desktop, and when its finally release :( :( :( i want it now!!!  the n900, and im trying to decide between puttin linux or win7 on the netbook (I run 7 on the desktop)   I want to be able to transfer files between all 3 things easily, and i want to be able to have some files on the n900 easily accessable by both other machines05:54
b-man16does it complain about $DISPLAY?05:54
EspadaV8b-man16: not that i remember05:55
EspadaV8oh, and happy birthday :-)05:55
b-man16Xisdibik: you could dual boot ;)05:55
b-man16thanks :D05:55
EspadaV8Xisdibik: use Dropbox?05:55
EspadaV8sure someone will come out with something for the n90005:56
Xisdibikb-man16: Im not a huge fan of it,  id like to use the whole 160GB for one OS05:56
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EspadaV8i'll have to check in the morning about any warnings05:56
EspadaV8it's like... 4am here05:56
EspadaV8and i'm dead05:56
XisdibikEspadaV8: the main thing i want to be able to share with the other two devices is SNES cartridges,  so i can maintain saves while accessing the games from all 3 machines if i want to05:56
EspadaV8doing a final compile and copy before i hit the sack05:56
Xisdibiksome syncing of documents would also be there, but thats less often05:57
b-man16g2g - i´ll see you guys tomorrow - getting late here too ;)05:59
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GeneralAntillesXisdibik, hmm?07:23
GeneralAntillesXisdibik, try Linux?07:25
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XisdibikGeneralAntilles: heh, am, puttin karmic on a USB atm to put on the netbook07:27
Xisdibikonly thing i dont like about linux, is skype's linux version07:28
luke-jrSkype sucks07:32
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Xisdibikluke-jr: lol07:36
Xisdibikluke-jr: find me something that my friends use so i can chat with them :P  cuz.. thats the only thing they use07:37
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GeneralAntillesXisdibik, get them all to switch to Gizmo. ;)07:43
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XisdibikGizmo?  link!07:48
Xisdibik(not that i would be able to get them all to switch, but its still worth a look07:48
XisdibikGeneralAntilles: i found the site, is it correct that it supports skype users as well?07:51
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GeneralAntillesXisdibik, they just added something for free calling to Skype.07:54
GeneralAntillesNot sure what the support entails, exactly.07:54
GeneralAntillesXisdibik, my friends and family use neither. :D07:54
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Xisdibikhaha :P07:55
Xisdibikthey should???? GeneralAntilles  :P07:55
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zerojayGeneralAntilles: It's not free.08:12
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GAN800USB charging seems to have only brought pain.08:24
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GAN800Zero convenience08:24
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* timeless wakes up to a silent alar08:26
timelessgan: zero conv?08:27
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GAN800timeless, no host, wont work with dumb chargers, wont take a charge from a sleeping computer and I don't have any other MicroUSB devices anyway.08:37
jaskawont charge from a dumb usb charger?:(08:38
GAN800jaska, not so far as I can tell.08:38
GAN800At least if the USB cable has data pins.08:38
GAN800It wants to negotiate (which is to spec) but dumb chargers don't negotiate. . . .08:39
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XisdibikGAN800: your sleeping computer's motherboard might not support powering USB while its asleep08:51
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GAN800Xisdibik, it does, as it powers other stuff without issue. ;)09:03
ShadowJKI was under the impression that it charges if the data pins are shorted?09:07
ShadowJKI've always had this concern about usb charging too, but since nokia is including adapter to use old chargers I relaxed :)09:07
XisdibikGAN800: strange :(09:09
ShadowJKGAN800, now that people finally have the USB charging they've been whining for, I have this urge to stand up and shout "HA" everytime people discover negatives about it :-)09:10
GeneralAntillesYeah, I knew it wouldn't work out all milk and honey.09:11
GeneralAntillesA USB bus doesn't even have enough juice to charge at a reasonable rate. :\09:11
ShadowJKwell about 3-4 hours09:12
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ShadowJKIt's interesting to note that Nokia's own microusb charger has higher spec than the previous gen 2mm chargers09:12
GeneralAntilles5.7v vs 5v?09:13
ShadowJKI wonder if it's like with the 2mm generation that the spec is actually some minimum amount, and in practice you get 1.5 - 2x09:13
ShadowJKno not volts09:13
ShadowJKAll my 2mm chargers output 6.something anyway09:14
GeneralAntillesAC-10U is 1200mA 5v09:14
GeneralAntillesThe AC-4U was underpowered for the tablets at 890mA09:15
GeneralAntillesConsidering you could draw more power than the charger could provide.09:15
Maceris there something that i can send to act as pgup in irssi other than pgup?09:15
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* ShadowJK has never managed to pull 890mA :-)09:16
ShadowJKI don't think I've ever seen more than 60009:16
MacerGeneralAntilles: sounds like my g109:16
Macerno wait09:16
ShadowJKhm, I guess USB host mode adds 150-200ish...09:16
Maceri mean my n81009:16
Macermy n810 would lose power sometimes if it was under a constant high load09:17
Macerwhile chaRGING09:17
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ShadowJKwhat's high load?09:19
ShadowJKWhat did you do :-)09:19
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timelesshey, bad planning here09:24
timelessanyone have a spare floor for tonight?09:25
Xisdibika spare floor?09:25
timelessjust a place i could sleep09:26
timelessno bed required09:26
Xisdibiklocated where? :)09:26
Xisdibikamsterdam i guess?  or prague?09:26
GAN800timeless, johnx and rm_you are going to be in a hostel downtown if nothing else materializes.09:27
timelessbeen here since friday noonish09:27
Xisdibikheh, sorry mate, i have plenty of floors here, but im in Berkeley, California, USA09:27
timelessgan: ok09:27
GAN800They may still have my reservation, not sure.09:28
Xisdibikmachine wants to reboot for updates09:28
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timelessalso, anyone w/ nokia vpn access around? :)09:30
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Stskeepsi wish sometimes09:31
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timelessyou don't really want one10:05
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timelesscold someone try using a simless n900 w/ working active wiifi and apgs enabled to get a maps fix?10:06
timelessi want to know how long it takes10:06
timelessi believe the basic agps requires dataroaming10:06
timelessbut i'm not certain10:07
Xisdibikget me a n900 and ill get right on it ;)10:07
* timeless is trying to integrate a tidbit from a camera guy into a string10:07
timelesscome to weesp and i'll let you use one of mine :)10:08
timelessbtw, any objections to labeling the pal/ntsc chooser as "format"?10:08
qwerty12_N810What's wrong with the control panel applet to switch between NTSC/PAL? :)10:10
sulxis it possible to get n900 wifi to work as AP?10:10
timelessthe label sucks10:12
timelesssulx: not from the gui in the box10:12
timelessbut sure10:12
timelessthis isn't windows, it doesn't have a pretty ICS10:13
qwerty12_N810timeless: Fair point :/10:13
timelessit's linux and XTerminal is available10:13
sulxtimeless: yea I know ;)10:13
timelessqwerty: objections to my string?10:13
qwerty12_N810Nope. It's a lot better than "TV out"10:14
timelessqwerty: so.. i need someone to take a copy of zenity srcs probably from mer and send it to extras-testing10:14
timelesscan you do that?10:14
qwerty12_N810I'm the maintainer of the Diablo version10:14
Xisdibikso wait, all you people in amsterdam, i thought the summit was over, is it not?10:15
qwerty12_N810timeless: Wouldn't be a problem for me to upload it to Fremantle10:15
timelessgreat, please do, now :)10:15
StskeepsXisdibik: another day today, last one10:15
Xisdibikah ok10:15
ShadowJKquestion is whether the drivers and hardware supports AP mode, we know the pretty gui doesn't :)10:15
timelessi need someone to write a small launcher that uses it10:15
XisdibikStskeeps: is the NDA still in effect for people, or is it off, and,  if its still on does it end after the summit10:16
timelessnda's a re typically covered by their own text [1;2A)10:16
timelessbut most people should be able to talk  abut the devices they got here10:17
StskeepsXisdibik: no idea what your nda covers10:17
timelesspeople are encouraged to file bugs in bugs.maemo.org10:17
timelessat least the normal people10:17
Stskeepsfrankly. i think its not allowed to discuss you have one either.. crazy legalese10:17
XisdibikStskeeps: im not on a NDA, i ment for others ;)10:18
timelessthere was no mention of grouping those bugs into a hidden slot10:18
timelessin general, ita's like fight clun10:18
timelesssee rule 110:18
ShadowJKshouldn't people know what they sign...10:18
timelessthey aren't allowed to talk about it10:19
timelessthat's covered by the doc10:19
timelessand typically you have n agreement not to talk about the nda to view the nda itself10:19
timelessbefore signing10:19
timelesssimple example, contractors can't typically indicate they contract10:20
timelessstandard industry form10:20
ShadowJKthere's hardly anything interesting left to know, that early n900 users would know, anyway :)10:22
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timelesssadly, the terms generally don't care10:25
ShadowJKI meant it in the sense that it's kinda silly to be asking whether people can talk or not, when they've already talked plenty ;)10:26
GAN800When the hell did we decide on 'Maemo Extras'. . . .10:26
timelessyears ago  ;)10:28
ShadowJKyay for the crusade against random repos10:28
timelessit should be just maemo10:28
* GAN800 would Thank qgil's post but 'Maemo Extras' irritates me.10:28
GAN800Ah, fun, browser crash, too.10:28
timelessso, it you record the machine id portioin (it's consistent and 4 hesx digit), sp3000 or babu could look10:29
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GAN800Something I did made this thing hate me.10:30
timelessi'm outside ams for the morning10:30
timelessyou picked it up?10:30
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GAN800's/he' . . .10:31
qwerty12_N810No, he gave it a lecture on the correct usage of "Maemo/"10:31
GAN800Well, this one seems vaguely reproducible. . . .10:33
timelessso the repo shouild be "maemo.prg" ?10:33
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GAN800I think we should call it "qwerty12's House o' Fun"10:34
GeneralAntillesHrm, that's cool.10:35
GeneralAntillesWonder if that was wd or battery.10:35
qwerty12_N810WD reboots with a song playing are the best...10:36
* timeless kicks maps10:37
GeneralAntilles. . .10:37
timelessi'm in weesp10:38
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* GeneralAntilles stares at a crash report for the wd.10:38
timelessi search for nieuwstraat10:38
Pavlovhow long does the train take to get to the airport from central amsterdam?10:38
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timelessit offers  me a town miles aay10:38
timelessand some other things10:38
timelessfrom memory less than 15mins10:38
timelessit doesn't ment10:39
timelessmemory is years ago10:39
timelessnot thus trip10:39
ShadowJKnieuwstraat sounds like something that every town has, if ovi maps had any sense it'd offer the one in the town you are in :(10:39
Pavlovlooks about right10:39
Pavlovjust wanted to make sure it wasn't like an hour10:39
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* ShadowJK has issues with all map software living in a bilingual area10:41
timelessthis is ovi maps10:41
timelessi had to tell it x, town10:41
timelessthen it merrily told me less than 200 yards10:41
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* ShadowJK points to "if" :)10:42
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timelessplease don't ask why it's measuring in yards instead of feet10:42
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* ShadowJK wishes *maps would know about names in all languages instead of requiring me the user to memorize/find names in 3 languages10:43
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ShadowJKand often not even the locals know the other names :)10:43
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Xisdibiktimeless: it probably gave you yards because its smaller than saying it in feet10:45
Xisdibikand if your walkin,  at least for me.  my strides about a yard10:45
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* rmt finally had the realisation that he doesn't need to compile everything under sb2 -e..10:56
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zgold_anybody attend the bluetooth profiles talk yesterday and know the verdict on DUN?11:00
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Stskeeps oo11:16
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mgedmin900can desktop apps support openid auth conveniently?11:26
mgedmin900I don't have a password for my account, I use openid11:26
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mgedmin900can I use Mauku this way?11:27
mgedmin900or am I limited to denting via web/jabber unless I give in and set a password11:27
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mgedmin900lcuk's tv-out troubles are worrying11:32
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mgedmin900flaky cable?11:32
JaffaMorning all11:33
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Jaffamgedmin900: It's worked well every other time I've seen it11:33
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mgedmin900oh dear, someone's reading the slides word by word very rapidly11:38
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nocaichi folks - I was reading qgill's post today - ... the one about 3rd party untested apps. I was wondering - assuming I manage to brick/break the maemo install on a n900. how can I repair that - or am I forced to visit my local nokia vendor/service?12:06
mgedmin900don't brick it12:07
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mgedmin900was the answer I got yesterday to this very question12:07
nocaichmm - that's calming...12:07
nocaicthat means I can't rebuild+replace the root image?12:08
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mgedmin900I imagine flashing the firmware will be possible when the n900 is finally launched12:08
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fralshmm someone in here bricked his n900 yesterday iirc, wonder what he endedu p doing to fix it12:09
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nocaicI bricked my kubuntu install on my EEE laptop the other day.. I just recompiled a full root install gentoo linux on my core2 (as it's approx 4x faster to re-install that way) and copied the root filesystem back onto the EEE - voila ;-)12:12
mgedmin900browser: nokia is happy with the gecko engine12:12
* frals hopes someone is gonna record
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mgedmin900browser: backspace key goes back (duh)12:16
mgedmin900why are there two ways to get the history list: swipe from right and  a toolbar button?12:16
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Mekbecause the swipe is not very discoverable?12:18
mgedmin900what about reloading a page?12:19
mgedmin900ctrl-r is the only way I found12:19
mgedmin900well, and pressing enter in the address bar12:19
qwerty12_N810Reload appears in the menu when you can use it12:19
mgedmin900looked for it, haven't seen it12:20
mgedmin900hm, it's there now when I dont't need it12:20
mgedmin900dont't remember it when facebook loaded as a blank page (poor wifi)12:22
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nocaicis there a way to test out the n900? Is there somthing like a virtual-box/vmware-image (including the sdk) or do I have to start butchering around my gentoo install?12:26
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mgedmin900cool: the browser ui uses no opengl12:27
mgedmin900runs on a n8x012:27
SpeedEvilnocaic: The sdk is not a complete user experience - if that's what you mean12:27
mgedmin900with same performance as n90012:27
mgedmin900pwsafe idea: hide passwords by default, reveal on click12:32
mgedmin900you don't need to see them if you use the copy pwd button12:33
keesjthere are some problems if everybody uses opengl mainly you will empty the buffers every time12:33
Mekhmm... I can't find where photos I take with my n900 end up on disk... not in MyDocs/.images apparently12:34
* mgedmin900 wants adblock12:34
SpeedEvilmek find ~ -cmin -10 -size +100k ?12:35
Mekah, yeah... makes sense...12:36
mgedmin900the standard for digital cameras12:36
mgedmin900MyDocs is a separate partition, exported via usb in mass storage mode12:36
* mgedmin900 wants adblock12:37
* SpeedEvil needs to get his much better thing working.12:37
SpeedEvilCurrently benchmarking approaches.12:38
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* Jaffa stays put for the security talk, gcobb and I want to ask same questions.12:50
CorsacJaffa: could you give some info about that talk here12:51
Corsacthe the “covertitlive“ feed is a bit noisy and not easy to follow12:51
* ccooke is amused by the qt dev talk we just had12:52
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mgedmin900web browser crashed agan12:52
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JaffaCorsac: will do12:52
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Jaffaccooke: bit targetted aat Qt devs and had nothing on Maemo 512:52
ccookethe schedule said it was qt for maemo 5 and 612:52
* Jaffa nods12:52
mgedmin900where's the restore session option?12:52
Jaffamgedmin900: ha12:53
ccookeI got an apology from the presenter about it...12:53
Jaffaccooke: heh12:53
ccookeah, well. security now12:53
* Jaffa had hoped to see something about the official Qt for Maemo 512:53
ccookethere isn't anything12:53
mgedmin900when I launch 'web' I get bookmarks and there's no way to see my history12:53
pupnik  the planned peer-to-peer networkig framework for JamMo12:54
ccookethat was the last potential one I think12:54
mgedmin900ccooke: security in which room?12:54
mgedmin900and isn't  it supposed to be in 7 mins?12:54
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Jaffamgedmin900: N810. 'Open/closed device modes"12:54
Jaffamgedmin900: Qt talk was done in 10 mins12:54
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mgedmin900starting early? eek12:55
* mgedmin900 runs12:55
Jaffamgedmin900: not started yet, but it'l be prompt as Elena is on stage12:55
ccookeno, wait. they changed it to n81012:55
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ccookemgedmin900: sorry for worrying you there12:55
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rm_youfinally got xchat on this thing12:56
ccookestarting now12:56
Jaffa"plat sec" protects entire SW platform12:57
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pupnik"Integrated Protection inclides data"12:58
pupnikthese are nokia internal classufucatiions or some standard?12:58
Jaffah/w enablers + integrity protection + access ctrl12:58
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ccooke"privacy protection" - strong encryption, user or device data12:58
Jaffa "security policy" defines everything12:59
Jaffaset of apps in both modes same13:00
ccookesame apps in different modes, so you won't need to reflash at least13:00
Jaffaapply and slightly extends classic AC13:00
Jaffamulti-user for app-level access ctrl13:01
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mgedmin900_wat? my 'complete browsing history' is 'none'???13:02
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Jaffaprocess_level access ctrl needed13:03
pupnikthis is an interesting presentation13:03
JaffaTrEE: root public key & root device specific key13:04
ccooketrusted execution13:04
pupnikis a thikrs mode13:04
Ceron^show me some cool apps13:04
Ceron^or New Games13:04
Ceron^on the n900 the people who have one13:04
pupnikso even loadable kernel modules cant access drm code? or are modules forbidden?13:05
Jaffaso far so good13:05
mgedmin900_boot rom checks integrity of loader13:05
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mgedmin900_loader checks for nokia's signature of os image13:05
ccookeso, we'll have nokia signed images13:05
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ccookeno other bootloader allowed13:06
JaffaSIM locking13:06
Jaffamakes sense -  if I pay less, I have a contract13:06
ccookesim locked phones canmt load non-nokia kernels13:06
ccookewhuich seems fair13:07
Corsacha, only sim-locked ones13:07
Corsacyeah, fair enough13:07
ccookedrm disabled on custom kernels13:07
ccookealso fair13:07
Corsacwell, not fair, but a carrier requirement13:07
mgedmin900_most importantly, if you buy unlocked devices you can boot arbitrary unsigned images13:07
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ccookemgedmin900_: and if you unlock the phone13:08
pupnikthis is a deep split.  i dont know13:08
ccookewhich is allowed13:08
Corsacit's mandatory in France anyway13:08
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Corsac(after 6 months)13:08
Jaffapupnik: this is for whole thing. process stuff seems like it might be ok13:08
Ceron^is it possible to port iphone games to linux or maemo?13:08
pupnikno open source driver modules can run concurrently with drm software?13:08
Corsac(what drm are we talking about?)13:09
ccookepupnik: that wasnmt said13:09
JaffaCeron^: developer can13:09
ccookethe kernel will have many modules13:09
pupniki am not twitterring13:09
JaffaCorsac: Paid apps and content13:09
Corsacall paid content will be drm-ed?13:09
ccookebut *custom* ones won't be able to run drm apps13:09
mgedmin900_good question13:10
Corsac(i thought drm was deprecated)13:10
mgedmin900_can I get root on a nokia-signed os image?13:10
CorsacI think so13:10
ccookedrm protected access control to resources, ,which can be provoded by apps or the system13:10
JaffaMaybe not if multiuser stuff makes ACL possible13:10
mgedmin900_without disabling drm?13:10
mgedmin900_hard to protect anything from root13:11
JaffaCan introduce new protected resources (e.g. pwsafe)13:11
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ccookemgedmin900_: can be done, though. a little hardware support will work it13:12
Corsacif there's some questions, could you ask about protected (encrypted and signed) communications (phone, mail, sms) and storage?13:12
mgedmin900_protected resources are things like cellular and gps access13:12
Jaffa(for example)13:12
mgedmin900_apps declare what they want in a manifest file13:12
mgedmin900_wont't necessarily get them13:12
Jaffarepos map to allowed resources13:13
mgedmin900_security policy grants access based on source13:13
mgedmin900_source could be a repository or a package signature13:14
mgedmin900_policy accessible only to the installer13:14
Jaffathis seems like a good design13:14
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mgedmin900_I still don't get if it's about protecting the user from malicious apps13:15
SpeedEvilIt's hopefully about both13:16
mgedmin900_or about protecting apps from the user13:16
CorsacI guess13:16
ccookemgedmin900_: its about both13:16
ccookeit has to be13:16
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mgedmin900_protected storage: encryption, integrity13:16
glasspiracy prevention13:17
Corsac(on algo, methods etc.)13:17
mgedmin900_app calls aegis apis13:17
JaffaCorsac: TrEE on the ARM does sign/verify, encpt/decrypt13:17
JaffaAPIs in user-space library for Aegis Protected Storage13:18
Corsacnice, how am I supposed to google for “arm tree”13:18
mgedmin900_no passwords the user has to remember13:18
mgedmin900_keys stored in hardware13:18
Corsacin sim?13:18
ccookeso, who's going to ask if we can get root?13:18
ccookeCorsac: tpm equivalent13:19
SpeedEvilroot will - if it's done right - not mean much13:19
ccookenot a sim13:19
ccookeSpeedEvil: it should work that way13:19
SpeedEvilIf the user has no passwords - how is it secured?13:19
mgedmin900_aegis validator13:19
ccookebut we'll need to ask :-)13:19
mgedmin900_kernel module checks executable integrity13:19
JaffaSpeedEvil: per-device key & normal device lock code?13:19
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mgedmin900_sha-1 currently13:20
Jaffastores hashes of binaries in APS13:20
Corsacno kidding?13:20
ccookesha-1? what?13:20
* Corsac laughs13:20
mgedmin900_you can generate sha-1 collisions with current hardware13:20
Jaffafor app hash keys13:20
ccookei hope that changes!13:20
mgedmin900_get one app signed, substitute the other one13:20
ccookethat's a shocker13:21
SpeedEvilI hope it's a composite hash13:21
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SpeedEvilsha1+md5 for example is not weak if you xor them13:21
Jaffaccooke: "currently" emphasised13:21
mgedmin900_I've seen ppl argue otherwise13:21
ccookebut I still plan to ask13:21
ccookebecause it's important13:22
mgedmin900_most of security fw will be opensource13:22
pupniklet the whining begin!13:22
mgedmin900_not all?13:22
mgedmin900_no security by obscurity13:22
Corsac(will the slides be available online at one point?)13:23
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JaffaCorsac: and video13:23
ccookemgedmin900_: drivers for the hardware will be closed, but the stuff to apply policy wll be opne, I expect13:23
ccookeoh god13:23
CorsacJaffa: the mail is for me to write to ask for the slides and video? :)13:24
JaffaCorsac: nah, for my own ref later ;-)13:24
Corsacok :)13:24
JaffaThis isn't constructive13:24
Corsachmhm, closed source drivers aren't really a good idea :/13:24
Corsactpm access is open, for example13:24
pupnikhehe this didnt take long :)13:24
ccookeCorsac: 'twas a guess13:25
Corsac(I wonder if they thought about using tpm and why it has been rejected)13:25
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mgedmin900_lots of talk about gpl v313:26
SpeedEvilTPM needs to go from before the bootloader really to mean much13:26
Corsacthough Nokia is a TCG member13:26
CorsacSpeedEvil: well, that was the point13:26
SpeedEvilFor example - the SOC in silicon needs to verify the bootloader, and then go from there.13:26
SpeedEvilin ROM internal to the chip I mean13:26
SpeedEvilAnd even then you can swap out the SOC13:26
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SpeedEvilBut at that point...13:27
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SpeedEvilI'd like - if the phone is stolen - for it to be a useless brick.13:28
wazdheya all13:28
SpeedEvilEven for the skilled hardware hacker with 100 to unlock.13:28
wazdSpeedEvil: everything that can be locked - can be unlocked13:29
SpeedEvilwazd: not if it's done right13:29
SpeedEvilwazd: and done right means that you will need to replace the CPU with one with unsecured firmware13:29
wazdSpeedEvil: any examples of 100% secure protection?)13:29
glass__on way locks are the way to bricktown-malware13:29
ccookeSpeedEvil: not quite. it can be made tpp much trouble to break13:29
CorsacSpeedEvil: that means someone can brick your hw too :)13:29
Jaffaseems ok to me13:30
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SpeedEvilCorsac: not if it's done right, and it requires my auth to flash it13:30
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SpeedEvil(but yes, it means that someone can lockdown an unsecured phone)13:30
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Corsacall in all, all resumes to a trusted base13:30
SpeedEvilAs long as that trusted base can be configured to not allow any functionality at all if the hardware is on a locked list.13:31
Corsacwho has control on that list?13:32
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wazdSpeedEvil: even usb keys for Cubase SX were hacked13:32
SpeedEvilThat is of course an issue. There are ways round that.13:33
SpeedEvilIt can be done.13:33
SpeedEvilIt adds cost to the device, and complexity to the managment.13:33
wazdSpeedEvil: you can fake any firmware, any auth, any user13:33
SpeedEvilnot - if it's done right - much complexity13:33
SpeedEvilwazd: I'm starting off with the assumption that the CPU has firmware in ROM to verify the signed bootloader.13:34
wazdSpeedEvil: PSP has that firmware protection13:34
SpeedEvilThis may not of course be the case with the n90013:34
wazdSpeedEvil: screen, battery and so on13:35
SpeedEvilyes - and the psp had various holes13:35
glass__seeing the psp hacking scene a lot good it did for them..13:35
wazdSpeedEvil: as you can see it's not a showstoper for hackers :)13:35
SpeedEvilIt is a showstopper if properly implemented.13:35
glass__more worthwhile system to look at could be the symbian platsec and how fw's(bootloader too) are protected there13:36
SpeedEvilProperly implementing it is hard.13:36
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SpeedEvilAnd requires integration into the whole platform13:36
SpeedEvilAnd one bug in a critical area, and you've lost.13:36
fralsawesome, got rafe to cover the "telepathy on maemo" session :D13:37
wazdSpeedEvil: what's properly implemented? anything that can be accessed - it can be hacked13:37
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SpeedEvilwazd: if it's read-write13:38
wazdSpeedEvil: absolutely anything13:38
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SpeedEvilwazd: And if you assume that changing out the CPU is not worth it.13:38
wazdSpeedEvil: worth is the other question13:38
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wazdSpeedEvil: you can replace read-only flash with rewriteable13:39
SpeedEvilwazd: not if it's internal to the CPU13:39
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SpeedEvilwazd: Current SoCs have 30K or so of ROM inside - this is not user-programmable, and may even be mask.13:40
SpeedEvilThis does stuff like loading a bootloader from NAND flash, forex.13:40
pupnik_hehe @ discussions :)13:40
Corsacattackers have the desperate habitude not to respect the hypothesis made upon them13:40
Corsacespecially concerning technical knowledge and motivation13:41
SpeedEvilCorsac: Sure - it requires a lot of work that's not typically done to do it right.13:41
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SpeedEvilStart off by verifying the bootloader from code in ROM, and you're off to a good start. But there are lots of hurdles you have to then pass to ensure that it doesn't break trust.13:42
SpeedEvilLogistical as well as technical hurdles - key managment is annoying.13:43
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CorsacJaffa: did you have more info on secure storage and secure communications?13:45
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timelesswhat is this?13:46
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wazdhave anywone listened to Vlad Vasiliev on the Summit? :)13:46
Corsactimeless: it seems that there is a “secure storage” stuff but I didn't have stuff more precise13:47
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Stskeepswazd, you have gotten a lot of exposure here13:48
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wazdStskeeps: pff :)13:48
wazdStskeeps: In fact I haven't done almost anything for this version :D13:48
wazdStskeeps: cause I was relpaced with some Nokia guy13:49
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timelesssecure storage where?13:49
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* wazd 's glad that he made OSM2Go icons in time13:50
timelessdid qwerty push zenity?13:50
Stskeepswazd, you were thanked though13:51
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timelesswazd: hey, i need some art :)13:51
qwerty12_N810timeless: it's in extras-devel13:51
timelessqwerty: i need it in testing so i can  pull it w/ an app13:51
qwerty12_N810It's not a user app, I'll promote it with a comment saying "I could not give a shit if it makes it to Extras"13:52
qwerty12_N810It should really be pulled in as a dep of something else13:52
timelesswazd: you've seen the flag icon for my n800/n810 locale package, right?13:53
wazdtimeless: yep13:53
timelessqwert: so an app pushed to -testing will automatically pull -devel bits?13:53
wazdtimeless: we were discussing it even :)13:53
timelessso, i need a similar one for the n90013:53
wazdStskeeps: was Vlad understandable? Cause he was nervous bout it :)13:54
timelessbut i'd like to have it used as an item in control panel in addition to as a package icon13:54
wazdStskeeps: that's the only reason why I'm asking :D13:54
timelessthink you could help?13:54
qwerty12_N810timeless: I can't promote it, anyway; the promotion link isn't there (maybe because it's a non-user app)13:54
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timelessqwerty: ok13:54
qwerty12_N810You'll have to get something depending on it, I guess13:55
timelessnext step is writing this stupid evil package/app13:55
rm_youwazd: what did he present again?13:55
wazdrm_you: OMWeather13:55
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rm_youahn yeah13:55
rm_youi understood him iirc13:55
wazdrm_you: cool :)13:56
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rm_youi wish i could add more than one omw widget to a screen tho :(13:56
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wazdrm_you: hmm :)13:56
rm_youneed weather for two cities at once13:56
wazdrm_you: that's an idea :)13:56
timelessthat's a desktop bug13:56
rm_youor am i just missing something?13:56
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timelessyou should be able to add things multiple times and to multiple desktops13:56
timeless(spec probably doesn't allow it, but it's a bug imo)13:57
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rm_youi guess i can just click to cycle providers13:58
rm_youbut still, wish i had all my cities at a glance13:58
timelessrm_you: where are you staying tonight?13:59
rm_youi guess you could add another setting, how many cities to show at once13:59
qwerty12_N810timeless: Yes, hildon-home ignores the "X-Multiple-Instances" field in a applet's desktop file13:59
rm_youtimeless: same hotel, ibis13:59
rm_youtimeless: apparently we can stay there and pay and then expense it to nokia later14:00
rm_youwe were going to stay at a hostel...14:00
rm_youbut just found that out this morning14:00
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rm_youtimeless: havent seen you at all14:02
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Stskeepswazd: yes it was fine but there was a bit of read-paper-copy-of-talk-aloud14:11
timelessi'm returning to ams/hotel now14:13
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* timeless hopped to 'weesp'14:13
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pupnikis GAN800 / Generalantilles at conference?14:24
qwerty12_N810omcfadde_: Hiya, is there any way we can bribe you to get the Quake 3 deb early? I've got an N900 in my hands that wants some Q3 action :p14:24
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pupnikyes plx ;)14:24
rm_youpupnik: no14:24
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SpeedEvilpupnik: he had passport problems14:26
pupnikty bummer14:26
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ccookethere's no python bindings for the location api yet14:28
ccookethat's going to make the little tools I want to make a *leetle* ugly14:29
fralscould anyone with a n900 try and receive a MMS and see if somethings added to /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db? :)14:29
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ccookefrals: need any extra SW for that?14:29
Macerthe tablet mode on this touchbook is so totally useless14:29
Macerit is HORRIBLE :)14:30
Macernot to mention the mouse jumps around like a wiimote14:30
fralsccooke: requires a separate app to read the el.db, e.g. a sqlite browser or something similar14:30
ccookefrals or anyone who can send MMS: Send one to +44791959471214:30
ccookefrals: no, not really14:31
ccookeI can tell you if it *changes* the file14:31
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ccookewon't be able to say how, but... :-)14:31
Corsacfrals: hmhm, but you can *send* mms?14:31
fralsnot from n900 no14:31
fralsccooke: okey, would be helpful to see *what* it changes as well, but i guess just seeing if it changes at all is a first step :)14:32
ccookefrals: it's the question you asked ;-)14:32
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omcfadde_qwerty12_N810: I'm currently battling the autobuilder, but yeah, it should be up soon :)14:32
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fralsokey, let me rephrase, could anyone with a n900 try and receive an MMS and see whats added (if anything) to /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db? ;)14:33
qwerty12_N810omcfadde_: You, sir, are awesome. Thank you! :)14:33
omcfadde_qwerty12_N810: hehe, no problem :)14:33
omcfadde_I need to poke Quim to get the video online, too14:33
omcfadde_but I think they want to do some editing on them first. maemo title screen, etc14:33
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omcfadde_so that might take a bit longer. but I'll ask when I see him next14:34
fralsccooke: sending MMS now :)14:34
ccookeIt comes through as an SMS14:35
fralsokey thanks14:35
timelessfwiw, i think mms vbehavior is very carrier specific14:36
ccookeyes, it is.14:36
timelessif a carrier knows you don't support mms, it can special case you14:37
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ccookefrals: at some other time... we should see what reacts to the MMS via, say, ltrace14:37
fralsif you have some spare time, would you mind checking if the sms control messages are in the .db? if you need a sqlite browser there is one at
ccooketo see if there's any communication from the carrier first14:37
fralslots of possibilities to check, im trying to find test subjects for them ;-)14:38
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ccookehmm, interesting:
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ccookeanyone seen that?14:38
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omcfadde_well, the build succeeded now... so I have no idea how long it takes to get into extras and visible on the device14:40
omcfadde_I guess about the same time gets DDOSed by 300 N900's :p14:41
qwerty12_N810omcfadde_: It can take a while so I've stolen the deb from results/ :p14:41
rm_youqwerty linky14:42
omcfadde_you will also need to grab the gles1 packages14:42
qwerty12_N810apt-get -f install FTW :)14:42
rm_youis it optified?14:42
rm_youi dont have room on rootfs14:43
omcfadde_qwerty12_N810: you'll also need libgles1 package14:43
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omcfadde_rm_you: the data files can be stored on the home filesystem14:43
omcfadde_the package itself is less than a few MB14:43
rm_youah k14:43
qwerty12_N810omcfadde_: Yep, I'm being told I'm missing "libgles1-sgx-img". Will hunt for it :)14:43
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omcfadde_yeah. after you have that, it should work (tm)14:44
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mgedmin900_the /opt discussion overran the time by 40 minutes14:45
Corsacioquake on n900?14:46
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omcfadde_yeah. I did a talk about it at the summit14:48
omcfadde_well, 10% talk, 90% demo14:48
Macerat the end of season 4 of andromeda everybody dies14:48
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Macerit's like watching the end of a mafia movie.. you know.. where the anti-hero always goes to jail or is killed14:48
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qwerty12_N810omcfadde_: Stole libgles1-sgx-img from nokia-binaries and it starts. Just need to get the demo files now :)14:50
Corsachmhm, does anyone remember the licence term for on maemo?14:51
Corsaccan I use it on another device?14:51
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qwerty12_N810omcfadde_: Although, the desktop file has /home/user/baseq3/ set for its Exec field but /home/user/baseq3/ does not exist in the package :)14:52
omcfadde_qwerty12_N810: oh, oops... yeah, let me fix that one14:55
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omcfadde_actually it won't do much without autoexec.cfg too14:55
omcfadde_thanks for pointing that out14:58
qwerty12_N810no problem, thank you for q3. Man, it's certainly a step up from Q1 and Q2 on the N810 :)14:59
pupnik_yes, fine job getting it running so soon14:59
omcfadde_thanks :)15:00
pupnik_great to have some divertissment upon release15:00
pupnik_so -- url for demo pack?15:00
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omcfadde_pupnik_: I don't have the url for the demo data, and to be honest, I'm not sure on the legal side for using that15:02
qwerty12_N810I'm grabbing the exe for Windows. If memory serves me well, it's just a zip file with WinZip's self-extractor. Dunno if "unzip" will handle it, however...15:02
omcfadde_but you're smart people...15:02
omcfadde_hint: I'd go for the linux .run file and extract that15:03
pupnik_dont include it but we are allowed to link such things too15:03
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rm_youyeah do what msttcorefonts does15:03
qwerty12_N810omcfadde_: I'm doing this on the device, though, dunno if it'll run with busybox and such :/15:03
rm_youinstaller wgets the filem and unpacks15:03
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qwerty12_N810Think Debian's package for flash does similar15:04
omcfadde_hmm... might be possible to do that15:05
omcfadde_but for now, you'll have to manually copy the data15:05
qwerty12_N810Oh, rm_you, how's ABL going?15:05
pupnikwhats abl?15:07
qwerty12_N810Advanced Backlight15:07
rm_youqwerty12_N810: gonna steal your applet code and change the backend i think15:08
rm_youfor now15:08
rm_youif you dont mind :P15:08
rm_youtheres so much crap in the abl codebase that i need to rip out for fremantle...15:08
qwerty12_N810rm_you: Of course not, but I do what the CPA does and, as such, am only able to make it go 1-5 :p15:09
rm_youalmost need to just start over15:09
rm_youjust gonna change your gconf code to dbus15:09
pupnikcan i use a different / public map pack?15:10
timelessrm_you: location ping15:10
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pupnikABL could use logarythmic slider for brightneess imo15:11
rm_youtimeless: wgf15:13
rm_youpupnik <_<15:13
rm_youtimeless: westergasfabriek15:13
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omcfadde_hmm seems to be taking ages to hit extras-devel15:23
omcfadde_but it might be because the x86 build is failing15:23
omcfadde_I've fixed that now with Architeture: armel15:23
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lopzgm ;)15:24
SpeedEvilqwerty12_N810: unzip can do self extracting zips15:25
pupnik hehe15:26
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qwerty12_N810SpeedEvil: Didn't work on one done by WinZip (here, at least, anyway)15:27
SpeedEvilOdd. Worked for me with older ones15:27
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pupnikrm-you - what i mean is, on 810 the brightness slider has a large effect on the left, and small on the right.15:28
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* qwerty12_N810 gives up trying to extract on the N90015:30
pupnikbluetooth ot to your n8x0?15:31
javispedrono unzip on extras yet?15:31
qwerty12_N810pupnik: No, WiFi and SSH :)15:31
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Hiya, I believe it's in extras-devel at least15:32
pupnikbah, tragedy of the commons15:32
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mgedmin900_what's the secret key to reflow text in the n900 browser?15:34
* qwerty12_N810 's memory does not serve him well15:34
pupnikhmm python includes an unzip model15:35
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mgedmin900_python -m zipfile15:38
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javispedrobtw, is maemo-optify installed in the autobuilder or do I need to build-depend on it?15:50
javispedrowhat would happend if build-depend on (maemo-version < 5 || maemo-optify) ;)15:51
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qwerty12_N810No need: Jaffa asked mvo to upload it to Diablo's extras-devel ;)15:52
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javispedromy Diablo rootfs is nearly empty already :P15:52
javispedro(I removed Tear MWAHAHAHAHA)15:53
mgedmin900_canola torrents plugin can control transmission running on a different pc15:53
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Macerthey seriously lost me in andromeda with season515:54
Macerso like.. are they supposed to be in an alternate universe?15:54
omcfadde_Quake 3 is now in extras-devel. see for the .install file for extra-devel15:54
mgedmin900_is canola optified?15:55
mgedmin900_I have only 8 megs free on my root fs15:55
Macerwhere the hell are these people getting n900s from? :)15:55
qwerty12_N810omcfadde_: Where is the pak0.pk3 file meant to go?15:55
qwerty12_N810I must have tried like 50,000 combinations of baseq3 symlinks :)15:56
ShadowJKMacer, yeah andromeda5 felt like a terrible hangover after 3 days of partying. "huh what's going on, my brain, I can't take it"15:56
MacerShadowJK: hahaha15:57
mgedmin900_Macer, maemo summit in amsterdam15:57
Macerit was like that last season of sg115:57
mgedmin900_nokia gave away 300 n900s15:57
Macerwhere the cast was replaced with the cast of farscape :)15:57
mgedmin900_s/gave away/loaned for 6 months/15:57
infobotmgedmin900_ meant: nokia loaned for 6 months 300 n900s15:57
ShadowJKatleast farscape was consistently refined lunacy througghout15:58
omcfadde_qwerty12_N810: /home/user/baseq315:58
* qwerty12_N810 got his for a year, outside of the Summit15:58
omcfadde_but I fucked up some option. give me one moment to fix it.15:58
ShadowJKand kinda fun they took some of it with them to sg15:58
qwerty12_N810omcfadde_: Heh, thanks15:58
mgedmin900_canola looks good15:58
MacerShadowJK: haha15:59
Macersg1 was pure humor15:59
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Macerlike the one where thte colonel was living the life with the other guy :) like they were mentally linked and he never told anybody16:00
Macerbut this damn andromeda season.. with the alternate universe16:00
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Macerand what's up with the white girl that plays the ship?16:01
qwerty12_N810strace FTW16:02
Macerthey got rid of lexa or something? :) or was it because she was spawning babies?16:02
SpeedEvilAlternate universes could be good.16:02
qwerty12_N810omcfadde_: Got it working, thanks!16:02
SpeedEvilFor example, I'd want to see the alternate universe Enterprise, with empress Sato.16:02
omcfadde_qwerty12_N810: cool :)16:02
omcfadde_yeah, I accidentally messed up the basegame name16:02
omcfadde_it's "foobar" but should be "baseq3" :p16:02
MacerSpeedEvil: the new star trek movie did that16:03
ShadowJKmacer: hangover and waking up next to unknown person, man16:03
MacerShadowJK: haha16:03
Maceri suppose they just ran outu of storylines in one universe16:03
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Macerand science fiction allows for the creation of alternate universes16:03
ShadowJKand she's the ship, and lexa is the ship too, yet they argue? wtf, like waking up in hangover to your gf asking what unknown person is doing in your bed16:04
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ShadowJKI think harper built the blonde, yet he still doesn't get any16:04
onionsgu seems quite nice, at least the first episode16:04
pupnikcool topic!16:05
MacerShadowJK: well... it didn't matter before16:06
Macernow there are 2 different people playing the ship.. and that's just stupid :)16:06
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MacerShadowJK: yeah. he built her16:06
ShadowJKhow many seasons did andromeda run for16:08
ShadowJKI don't remember past alternate universe16:08
ShadowJKoh maybe that's why then16:08
Macerthe ending of 4 and beginning of 5 like.. are idiotic :)16:08
ShadowJKwas that tesserac-tastic16:09
mgedmin900_powertop preinstalled!!16:09
Macerat the end of 4 trance goes supernova16:09
Macerand blows that world ship thing up16:09
Macerand it seems like everybody dies but they all pop up in some alternate wild west universe16:10
Macerit is stupid :).. i don't want to watch it anymore16:10
ShadowJKyeah see, the problem is causality16:11
ShadowJKit feels like a brutal hangover enshrouding your brain16:11
Macersure does16:11
ShadowJKbut you havent had booze16:11
Maceri did. i'm hungover now16:11
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Macerhah.. thank god i hooked this remote up to the comuter16:12
ShadowJKthe fix is to have booze, then 5th season makes sense16:12
Maceror to just not watch it16:12
ShadowJKor atleast becomes vaguely amusing16:12
onionfixes the hangover too16:12
* onion starting to get a headache16:12
Macerthe tablet mode of this touchbook is so utterly horrible16:13
onionmust be the 3 days of partying16:13
Macernow they have a groundhog's day episode.. because nothing screams science like a time loop16:13
onionthose are so boring16:14
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Macerthe one on sg1 was pretty good16:14
Macerthey made it comical16:14
Macerlike when they're golfing into the stargate16:14
fralsuhoh, that "locking device at 600mhz will fry it" sounds promising for exploding phones :D16:14
onionyeah, true16:14
Macerfrals: haha16:14
Macerthis tb is locked at 600MHz16:15
ShadowJKlocking n810 to 400MHz barely changes power use16:15
Macerthey need to work on the omap kernel a little bit more16:15
Macerto get it to throttle correctly16:15
ShadowJKwell, sleep while idle probably does more than cpu&voltage scaling really16:16
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ShadowJKand it wont sleep much if it keeps waking up all the time.. i think nokia has paid much attention to this16:16
ShadowJKdespite not having powertop before ;)16:16
mgedmin900_mer: not yet ready for end-user16:17
mgedmin900_no sound, gps, led16:18
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mgedmin900_on n81016:19
mgedmin900_open 3d driver exists for n810 --- did I get that right???16:20
onioncoming in 2 weeks16:20
ccookemgedmin900_: accounced a couple of days ago :-)16:20
Robot101do you mean open, or just, a 3d driver?16:20
mgedmin900_one of those 'hell freezes over' moments16:20
zerojayI don't remember it being open. I remember them saying it's a 3d driver...16:21
onionit is not released yet, TI guy said about 2 weeks16:21
Robot101open seems preeeety unlikely to me16:22
zerojayRobot101: Your guys still working on Facebook chat?16:23
Robot101hrm I forgot about that. theoretically you should be able to install the plugin and delete haze's .manager file, and make a .profile, and it should work16:24
Robot101but I think some accounts thingy crashes without the .manager file16:24
zerojayI know that's what was happening to me in Diablo... Galego was crashing, killing off showing status of my contacts in the contacts list.16:26
zerojayFuckkkk... come on, extras-devel... wake the fuck up.16:27
ShadowJKi think it waas open in-kernel part and closed userspace part?16:27
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zerojayJust the fact that something is coming out at all, open or closed, is quite a coup.16:30
mgedmin900_t-shirts for most prolific bug reporters16:31
zerojayWell... awesome... means all the people that got their tablets at Summit will be able to report all the bugs I could not (and still can't).16:31
ShadowJKto provide drivers at this stage, for a end-of-life product is quite awsome :)16:31
pupnikq3 starts but spins dial?16:31
pupnikgot a pk3 in foobar16:31
* pupnik stabs with strace16:33
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zerojayextras-devel is failing for me... "No Hash entry in release file"16:35
zerojayAny ideas?16:35
mgedmin900_retry later16:35
pupnikworked here16:36
zerojaypupnik: N900?16:38
pupnikanybody want to hewp16:40
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mgedmin900_and the summit is over16:42
mgedmin900_three awesome days16:42
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* mgedmin900_ still hasn't got the hang on socializing16:45
JosefAssadmgedmin900_: socialising is easy. Just add a "post to twitter" button somewhere and you've socialised it.16:45
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tigertzerojay: vi the /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-applicationmanagerwhatever-list16:49
tigertand see if there is an enter in the end16:49
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tigertzerojay: I had the same, maybe appman had a bug when I tried to add the repo from the .install file16:49
tigertor maybe it was just broken and wrked later16:50
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zerojayLove the shortcut for opening the terminal, btw.16:50
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jeremiahzerojay: What is it again?16:51
mgedmin900_how do we discover all these shortcuts?16:52
zerojayThe source is open so....16:52
Stskeeps3d drivers open kernel module, closed libs16:52
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jeremiahpound the keyboard tile the screen changes16:52
mgedmin900_that's not open16:53
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Stskeepsgood enough tbh16:54
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zerojayIt's the best we could probably ask for.16:56
Stskeepssame situation as on omap316:56
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mgedmin900gps still sucks17:05
Ceron^it does?17:05
Ceron^mgedmin900: tell me everything bad that you have noticed17:06
* mgedmin900 is standing outdoors, online, waiting for fix17:06
Ceron^how long have you been standing there17:06
Ceron^and in what country17:06
SpeedEvilHe doesn't know yet until he gets a fix.17:06
mgedmin900dunno, five minutes?17:06
Ceron^you probally got poor gps coverage on north pole!17:06
SpeedEvil13 min or so should generally get a fix if it's going to17:06
ccookemgedmin900: I think that's more the map app than gps17:07
Ceron^in finland i get a fix in under 3 minutes17:07
mgedmin900what's the timeout for the location applet?17:07
mgedmin900cause it just gave up17:07
ccookethe location applet works well. much better than ovi maps17:07
Ceron^what gps-chipset is it using?17:08
Stskeepsgps sucks without sim17:08
Ceron^same as n97?17:08
mgedmin900maybe it would work better if I has a sim card17:08
ccookemgedmin900: ahhh17:08
Ceron^why does it need a sim-card17:09
mgedmin900I had a fix this morning, so it should still have ephemeris/almanac data17:09
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CorsacStskeeps: gps needs a sim?17:09
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Ceron^it does not :P17:09
Ceron^assisted-gps shoulnt be needed17:09
Corsacha ok, so it needs a connection, not a sim17:09
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Ceron^celltower information is just a bonus17:10
Ceron^gps should coldstart in under 3 min17:10
ShadowJKI suspect it no longer updates periodically over any internet connection based on previous fix17:10
SpeedEvil13 min or so worst case17:10
Corsacdoes it support EGNOS?17:10
SpeedEvilUsually lots faster17:10
zerojayI had absolute hell with GPS in the N810... it's awesome for me on the N900.17:10
mgedmin900maemo mapper at least shows how many sats it sees17:11
ccookezerojay: ditto17:11
mgedmin900want maemo mapper for fremantle17:11
ccookeis maemo mapper usable yet?17:11
mgedmin900haven't seen a port17:11
mgedmin900not in extras-devel17:11
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qwerty12_N810Author is working on it.17:11
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mgedmin900will try building later17:11
zerojaymapper's one of those apps I will never touch again unless it's got some MAJOR new features over Ovi maps.17:12
qwerty12_N810Think he has a branch in SVN for Fremantle17:12
ccookeI'm looking at some simple stuff to try out the new location api17:12
mgedmin9005 minutes standing still17:12
ccookeshould probably see if mm is a good base to work on17:12
mgedmin900maemo mapper killer feature: works OFFLINE17:12
ccookezerojay: major features like being usable?17:13
zerojayWhy would you ever be offline on the N900?17:13
ccookeor actually working?17:13
zerojayccooke: Works fine for me.17:13
rangezerojay: People like to travel and roaming can be expensive as hell? >:)17:13
ShadowJKI guess all the people in Ams didn't bring their sim cards :-)17:13
zerojayrange: Okay, in that case, perhaps. :)17:14
ShadowJKa-gps uses so few bytes I had it on when I was roaming in germany :)17:14
ccookezerojay: I tried navigating aound amsterdam on it last night. it was terrible17:14
ccookekept losing tracking, and the find location ui is awful17:14
zerojayI never had a problem. GPS had me pinned within a few feet at all times when using Ovi maps... and if I go offtrack, recalculates route just fine too.17:15
ccookezerojay: still onsite?17:15
zerojayccooke: Huh?17:15
Ceron^so does the n900 include a magnetometer or not?17:15
ccookeare you still at westergasfabriek17:15
Ceron^so much talk that it does and it does not17:15
zerojayccooke: I have to be there before I can still be there. :)17:16
Ceron^someone with a damn n900 in there hands could probally answer17:16
zerojayccooke: I was fully sponsored to go to Amsterdam, but had to cancel.17:16
zerojayI have it in my hands.17:16
ccookeEspadaV8: oh, sorry17:16
zerojayAs far as I know, there's no magnetometer.17:16
ccookes/EspadaV8/ zerojay/17:16
SpeedEvilCeron^: no17:17
ccookezerojay: okay. load up ovi maps.17:17
SpeedEvilCeron^: just GPS - reportedly at least. I ack one in my hands.17:17
zerojayccooke: k.17:17
ccooketouch the top-right wkidget17:17
ccookeselect the first icon17:17
ccookejust checking on here what I did17:18
zerojayTop right widget closes the app. :)17:18
qwerty12_N810Jesus, it is slow17:18
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* ShadowJK just placed Nokia E75 (A-gps disabled), N810 (A-gps enabled) and a Sirfstar III bluetooth gps next to eachother near a window17:18
zerojayccooke: So... find places then?17:18
ShadowJKE75 and N810 no fix, sirfstar gave a position but claims 0 satellites used... not sure what ot make out of that17:19
SpeedEvilWindows vary17:19
zerojayI'm in my basement apartment and GPS is still working perfectly fine for me and has me 100% pinpointed.17:19
ccookezerojay: type slo17:19
SpeedEvilWindows with low-emission coatings can be very reflective of GPS17:19
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ccookethen try scrolling the list17:19
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zerojayNo results found.17:20
ccookeyeah, the gps hardware seems really nice17:20
ccookedamn, different results17:20
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zerojayI'm in Canada, so... yeah..17:20
ccookeokay, I'll do a proper bug report17:20
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qwerty12_N810Canada: No results found17:21
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ccookezerojay: still, there's nowhere with a name starting 'slo'?17:21
zerojayapparently we have no dentists in canada either.  lol17:21
zerojayccooke: In canada, no.17:21
zerojayI typed in water and got a long list.17:21
qwerty12_N810ccooke: If you're trying to replicate the shitty scrolling of it; Oxford Street, London works well17:22
ccookeis it possible to exit ovi maps from the app17:22
ccookeqwerty12_N810: interesting. it was really bad last night17:22
zerojayccooke: Yes, hit the top right twice.17:22
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ccookeah well. intermittant is better.17:23
zerojayNo issues here except for the scrollbar not fitting Fremantle standards.17:23
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* ccooke retracts 50% of his ire 17:23
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ccooke(... and yes, it's working fine here, now. I'll have to work out what was up last night)17:25
* qwerty12_N810 wonders why he didn't make his tap-and-hold GtkMenu a HildonAppMenu before17:25
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qwerty12_N810Hey, b-man17, happy birthday17:27
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qwerty12_N810Hey, b-man17, happy birthday17:27
qwerty12_N810Yep, lol17:27
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b-man17thank you qwerty12 :)17:27
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qwerty12_N810The real reason for Transmission's existance: Quake 3 data files17:28
b-man17indeed xD17:29
jaskaoh, the number in the end incremented, happy bday :p17:29
b-man17lol thanks xD17:30
javispedroyeah ex-b-man16, happy bday :D17:30
javispedro~seen b-man1617:30
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infobotb-man16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11h 31m 36s ago, saying: 'g2g - i´ll see you guys tomorrow - getting late here too ;)'.17:30
ccookeheh. happy birthday :-)17:31
b-man17thanks ccooke :)17:31
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b-man17hay penguinbait17:32
penguinbait16-17 what did you have a birthday?17:32
b-man17yup - today xD17:33
* ccooke has another day before he leaves amsterdam, and wanted to do some fiddling about with some simple apps.17:33
penguinbaithappy birthday!!17:33
zerojayqwerty12_N810: Link meh.17:33
qwerty12_N810ccooke: Amsterdam? Apps? Man, you're boring. ;P17:33
qwerty12_N810zerojay: www.thepiratebay.org17:33
ccookeqwerty12_N810: AlaughA17:34
b-man17qwerty12_N810: +1 :D17:35
ccookekeep expecting fn to be bolttom left :-)17:35
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pupnikfrozen bubble 2 missing perl-modules17:35
qwerty12_N810Only location app I'd try and write if I was there would be one that told me the location of the nearest coffee shop. And I'd keep making sure it worked, of course ;p17:36
qwerty12_N810pupnik: Yup, on my TODO list17:36
qwerty12_N810ccooke: I keep doing the same :p17:36
zerojayme too.17:36
pupniknice choice for a port17:36
pupnikway up near the top for release17:37
qwerty12_N810pupnik: I had it running on the N800, just a little slow :/17:37
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pupniklooks like a hildonized rubybox would be nice for n90017:38
ccookeqwerty12_N810: Imve seen plenty of Amsterdam already, and will see a lot more tonight.17:38
ccookei'm thinking initially of a gps bookmarker17:38
pupnikah yes, i lost my friends to airplane so if i can  tag along?17:38
qwerty12_N810pupnik: ukki is there, is he not? Tell him to get a move on :p17:38
zerojaytigert: The "No Hash entry in Release file" is right.. the actual release file on the server doesn't have it.17:38
pupnikhe left17:38
ccookebookmark this location, then alert you when you reach a bookmarked place17:38
qwerty12_N810pupnik: For Finland?17:39
pupnikoh, no, he is not planning on it qwerty17:39
ccooke(with directions later)17:39
qwerty12_N810pupnik: Grr, I'm guessing he didn't pick up an N900?17:39
pupnikhe did17:39
pupnikbut nobody afaik is doing ruby bindings17:40
qwerty12_N810You should've thrown his iPhone out the window17:40
pupniki think ukki can beat any of us up17:40
* pupnik is scared of finns :)17:40
pupnikty for that python unzip17:41
LupuOh, by the way, my N800 has in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list ... it seems that repository is empty and my packages are outdated17:42
Lupu... is there a new repository I should be using instead, anything that's still maintained?17:42
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zerojayAlrighty.. can someone fix Extras-devel, please?17:43
pupniki do not remember that repo.  google gronmayer maemo to see what repositories have what apps17:43
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zerojay <-- good17:43
zerojay <-- Broken.17:44
tigertzerojay: ah ok17:44
qwerty12_N810Lupu: It's not empty... Just that directory listing is not allowed17:44
tigertzerojay: then the repo is broken17:44
qwerty12_N810And you're not gonna see anymore SSUs for Diablo17:44
tigertactually i have that same probldem now17:44
zerojaytigert: So... who do we beat up for it?17:44
pupnikhelp with mer17:45
lalcarazHello, i would like to ask if there's any news on MER or Ubuntu for NIT 800 plz17:45
Lupuqwerty12_N810: Alright thanks. Actually, that's something I've been a little confused over. Is SSU (in this case) a synonym for apt updates?17:46
infobotssu is probably
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pupnikthere is news for mer17:48
pupnikn800 and n810 will be getting opengl es, so mer can stay current with clutter17:48
pupnikneeds testers, join #mer17:49
lalcarazyes thanks pupnik i have n800 and n810 for help the process of testing.17:49
pupnikls -ltr17:49
lalcarazwill joing right now.17:49
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Lupuqwerty12_N810: I've read that before already, but since it doesn't mention the technology used it's left me uncertain about it. Is it Nokia's own push update implementation or just apt-get but avoiding that terminology deliberately?17:49
Stskeepsapt-get with magic.17:50
Stskeepscloser to ubuntus way17:50
LupuAlright, thanks.17:51
wazdb-man17: happy bman day :)17:51
zerojayFremantle extras-devel is broken. Is there anyone awake that can help fix it?17:51
b-man17wazd: thanks :)17:52
Stskeepsnot sure if x-fade and jeremiah are anywhere17:52
Stskeepspossibly on a pane17:52
zerojayjeremiah_in-tran: ping17:52
zerojayX-Fade: ping17:52
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konttori__any news when the n800 opengl drivers willbe published?17:57
konttori__I happen to have a set at home, but that's not the one that will be published (2 years old).17:58
zerojayHeard in two weeks.17:58
konttori__great news indeed17:59
lalcarazCould I ask all which OS have you tested succesfully on NIT800 despite MER?18:01
lalcarazi'm little bit curious of experiment on my NIT 800 ... i've tested KDE, DEBLET and LXDE but all on top of Maemo18:01
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Firebirdlalcaraz, well there's debian18:03
lalcarazFirebird, running from boot? or on the top of Maemo?18:04
Firebirdfrom boot of course18:04
lalcarazmm interesting, i would like to test that one ... does it have X and sound working all along, Firebird ?18:05
Firebirdthough, I thought that's what deblet was18:05
zerojayNext classic gaming wallpaper for N900: Super Mario Bros 2, World 1-1 from the SNES port.18:06
Firebirdlalcaraz, you said you tried deblet, which is the debian on boot18:06
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Firebirdzerojay, any plans for abstract or landscape wallpapers?18:07
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Firebirddoing a 360 panorama would be a neat wallpaper18:07
ccookeFirebird: I think there are a couple of those on the themes website18:08
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lalcarazFirebird, aww ... yeah, i was thinking was different from what i tried before .. nope that one tested and to be honest preffer maemo booting from SD as i have it now, with CLEAN installation on the device .. works kinda nice i must say.18:08
ccooke... actually, you can generate a 360 panorama from google's street view.18:08
ccookeI wonder if you can easily set the wallpaper programmatically :-)18:08
Firebirddoes street view go to the center of the grand canyon?18:08
* Firebird slaps ccooke with a large fish18:09
zerojayFirebird: Other people are doing that already. I'm doing panoramic versions of levels from classic games.18:10
ccookezerojay: fun ones, too :-)18:10
zerojayccooke: Glad you're enjoying them. :)18:10
ccookeFirebird: that's not very friendly, you know :-)18:10
Firebirdis the debian page in the ITT wiki still relevant?18:10
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Firebirdccooke, a large majority of the landscape and abstract wallpapers only cover one screen18:12
zerojayFirebird: n900wallpapers.com18:12
Firebirdthat's where I'm looking18:12
zerojayI know everything I'm uploading is 4 screens.18:12
zerojayDunno about the rest.18:13
zerojayDon't see the point of just single wallpapers.18:13
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konttori__I don't see the point why n900 doesnt just support using 3200x480 photos.18:17
konttori__and autosplitting those.18:17
zerojayYeah, that too.18:17
* konttori__ will raise that one up.18:17
jjardonDid anyone go to hildon talk?Any plan for hildon?18:17
ccookeHmm. A background installer wouldn't be difficulr to write. Something that'll work with 3200x480 photos, too18:18
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zerojayioquake3 is in extras-devel.18:39
zerojayMissing dependency.18:39
kynkymight have to stick gentoo on my n900 when i get it :)18:39
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waokynky: wow, brave118:44
kynkywell debian arm works, all i goto todo s do some cross compiling in an embedded environment on desktop, and setup a binhost, so will just be like doing apt-get for debian arm18:46
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b-man17 this concerns me :(18:51
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infobotit has been said that coin is flipped... heads or tails?18:56
javispedroI assume -dbg packages should be optified too....18:57
* infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... tails!18:57
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* infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... tails!18:57
* infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... heads!18:59
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* infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... tails!19:00
b-man17god, i fail xD19:00
pupnikwhat is changed  in the q3 update?19:02
pupniki think it doesnt like myy pk319:02
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konttori__hardware of n900 is capable of running harmattan. some gimmics (like pinch) would need to be left out.19:12
konttori__b-man17: ^19:12
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b-man17konttori__: thanks :)19:19
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EspadaV8~flip ?19:21
* infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... oshi--it's the side!19:21
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EspadaV8hmm, that is worrying b-man1719:25
EspadaV8i'm hoping that OS-wise the n900 will run Maemo19:26
kynkyjust no support for multi-touch ?19:26
b-man17i believe so19:26
ShadowJKno support for pinch atleast19:26
ShadowJKin hardware19:26
* ShadowJK hopes they will be able to find an accurate touchscreen19:27
ShadowJKI'm not a big fan of fingerpainting :-(19:27
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javispedrogarage needs "Maemo 5" OS category.19:27
kynkyresistive touch screen sounded good to me for n900 (although it got slated on engadget iirc)19:27
javispedrokynky: slated by engadget bloggers, defended by engadget commenters.19:28
* b-man17 just hopes the N900 doesnt turn into what the N770 had become - supporting only one offical maemo release :(19:28
EspadaV8i would've liked them to use capacitive for the n900, but a few people here seem to like the resistive instead19:28
kynkyjavispedro, not like they biased :) as they blog via iphones19:28
kynkyresistive is more accurate i thought, and beter for stylus/gloved fingers19:29
EspadaV8i don't see any advantage of using resistive these days19:29
Firebirdprecision then19:30
Firebirdyou can click really tiny objects19:30
EspadaV8like apple have done with the iphone though, if the OS is done correctly, you shouldn't need a stylus19:30
* EspadaV8 can't believe he's defending the iphone :(19:30
javispedroBut I _do_ want a stylus, vs 72pt fonts.19:30
kynkyEspadaV8, surely that depends on what you want to do, pros/cons19:30
ShadowJKjavispedro, yeah exactly :)19:30
Firebirddrawing on a capacitive screen is very poor19:30
kynkyiphone has a rubbish resolution, with n900 you might want pixel precision foer its high res, gimp would be hard for iphone, imho19:31
b-man17iphone + gimp = impossible :D19:32
FirebirdI sure hope maemo6 stays resistive with stantum multitouch panels instead of going straight to capacitive19:32
EspadaV8gimp + phone = ... pointless?19:32
javispedroFirebird: they have already said "Capacitive multitouch".19:32
Firebirdyea, pretty lame19:33
javispedrono space for confusion there.19:33
Firebirddoes that mean they will have a lower resolution?19:33
Firebirdmakes no sense to stick with 800x48019:33
kynkybut capacitive tech could get better by 201119:33
* b-man17 made his ubuntu-rescue-menu GUI using gimp on his N800 ;)19:33
ShadowJKI guess the attraction for me is that I can use mostly regular software on my N810 just fine.. like xchat, for example. SUre, someone could probably start writing something xchat-ish that displays my usual 8 point font size for chat and then zooms in to select channels, etc... but it took 5 years for xchat to become useful, I'm not that hopeful rewriting/hacking it would be that fast :)19:33
kynkythey working on multitouch resistive at mo19:34
javispedroyeah, but thinking nokia may license that is wishful at least.19:34
javispedrothey're already using capacitive touchscreens.19:34
javispedroonly hope is, like GAN mentioned, that they do two devices at one point.19:35
javispedrobut I doubt that.19:35
Firebirdwell, if someone can hax usb hosting onto the N900 we can attach one of these: with some kernel patching19:35
javispedroand when I'm pessimist I'm usually never wrong ;)19:35
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javispedroI dunno wheter optify Maemo4 packages or not.19:37
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javispedrowell, since there hasn't been any serious discussion about creating the /opt partition, I'd say not.19:37
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b-man17netsplit ;)19:38
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javispedroprecision on stratum touchscreen: 0.5mm :)19:39
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EspadaV8err.. doi need to register garage.m.o and talk.m.o as 2 different accounts?19:42
EspadaV8that's annoying19:43
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JosefAssadI'd recommend staying away from capital letters when registering on g.m.o19:45
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EspadaV8yeah, i did register in mixed case, but it lowered them all19:45
EspadaV8EspadaV8 -> espadav819:46
EspadaV8t.m.o took the mixed case19:46
javispedroI seriously think optifying file size threshold is too low. Even the gconf schema file goes to /opt .19:46
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javispedroalong with all icons save for the 26x26 one (good lord!)19:47
javispedroso, the 48x48 icon goes to /opt, but the one in the debian control file stays in the rootfs...19:48
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* EspadaV8 wish he knew what javispedro was talking about19:48
EspadaV8no idea19:49
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* Firebird votes for cloning rootfs to the 32gb19:52
* b-man17 does too19:52
javispedrodoesn't matter. every package will be optified.19:52
javispedro*will have to be.19:52
EspadaV8who are the admins for the extras uploads?19:53
EspadaV8is that a nokia thing?19:53
Firebirdreally? hmm, mine aren't optified yet19:53
javispedroiirc a package installing more than half a mibibyte of files to / will not pass extras QA.19:54
ShadowJKwouldn't optifying maemo4 packages break them since there's no /opt on maemo4?19:54
javispedroShadowJK: there's /opt, only in rootfs.19:54
javispedroso it just creates and aditional symlink wasting space.19:54
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* GeneralAntilles shudders.19:56
GeneralAntillesSupporting locked and unlocked users may very well kill me.19:56
Firebirdjavispedro, so if anyone has hard coded paths they need to change it to /opt ?19:56
javispedroFirebird: not necessarily if you run the default "Optifier", since it will fill / with symlinks to every file created in /opt.19:57
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Ceron^anyone tried OpenTTD on n900!?19:57
Firebirdah, symlinks19:57
GeneralAntillesand capacitive19:57
GeneralAntillesI can't believe Nokia bowled over for the Engadget retard brigade.19:57
javispedroCeron^: what happens?19:57
Ceron^btw, can i get an external mouse + keyboard plugged into the n900? :D19:57
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javispedroCeron^: go to Game Options and change window resolution.19:59
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Ceron^i want to play openttd with an external mouse + keyboard on 50" screen20:00
* DocScrutinizer wonders what happened to old school of having /usr, /opt, /home and a few others on a different filesystem than /20:00
Corsacthere was a thread on debian-devel recently :)20:00
javispedroit's back.20:00
Firebirdaww, drag-lock deleted itself again20:01
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qwerty12_N810omcfadde: In Quake 3, are you always meant to be moving forward? :p20:10
DocScrutinizerkynky: C-TS never will overcome inherent inability to sense a pinpoint sylus, not in 2011 and not in 20 years. || Multitouch is no exclusive feature of C-TS. MT for R-TS is a rather old technique, and it's basically rather simple.20:11
javispedrodoesn't matter. marketing has spoken.20:13
DocScrutinizerkynky: and then there are quite some not so wellknown other technologies for TS. Like force detect, surface wave...20:13
javispedroheh, package n900-fmrx-enabler :P20:13
javispedroCeron^: I'm the maintainer (currently) for OpenTTD port, so if you experience any problem tell me.20:14
Ceron^i dont own a n900 that is my problem20:15
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Firebird...does the N810 USB cable work with the N900?20:15
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DocScrutinizerFirebird: should. why not?20:15
Firebirddidn't realize it was the same USB plug until now20:16
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javispedroCeron^: ah.20:17
javispedroCeron^: ah. then, answering your question: you cannot play openttd on 50'' screen with external mouse.20:17
javispedrobecause tv out resolution is hardcoded AFAIK and no USB Host support.20:17
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Ceron^javispedro: what about bluetooth mouse + keyboard?20:18
javispedroCeron^: more probable, but not out of the box either.,20:18
Ceron^i have seen ppl using wiimote20:18
johnsqCeron^: n8x020:19
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javispedroand you'd need to contact me to get a build capable of drawing the mouse pointer (i removed it from the current one).20:20
DocScrutinizerCeron^: BT mouse&kbd should work, I'd guess. If plug in to USB works ootb depends on whether Nokia spent a USB-hostmode power supply20:20
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Mekthere is no usb hostmode at all (and it is not known yet if that is fixable in software)20:21
johnsqafter the price the showstopper of n90020:21
DocScrutinizerThat's been discussed widely, and my notion on that still is the SoC-IF for sure is capable of hostmode protocol20:22
GAN800Can somebody ship the old iconset for FBReader.20:22
GAN800The new one is so ugly.20:22
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* GAN800 wishes rtcomm would respect the 'screen name' setting.20:24
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timelessi have a problem :)20:31
timelesscan someone help me manage .po files?20:32
timelesssomeone gave me changed po files wv the po entries in an order randomly different from my own20:32
timelessis there a tool that can do something useful about that?20:33
GAN800qwerty12, ping?20:33
qwerty12_N810GAN800: yep?20:33
GAN800Where do I get the gles common package?20:33
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paul0weird, i can't remove connections saved in my N80020:34
qwerty12_N810GAN800: Nokia-binaries20:34
paul0also, it doesn't connect to any wifi network20:34
GAN800qwerty12, ugh.20:35
qwerty12_N810GAN800: I had some dep problems, however, so I just downloaded the deb files from there manually and forced an install20:35
qwerty12_N810Quake 3 now runs but it has some odd gameplay20:35
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* javispedro reads about Harmattan "open" and "closed" modes. WTF.20:35
GAN800qwerty12, too lazy. I'll install it when they get their shit together.20:36
MoonTigeris the n810 dead now?20:37
GAN8003D drivers coming out in two weeks20:37
MoonTigeri thought the n900 wa the new all-singing all-dancing wonderkid who was going to change the world20:38
GAN800It is20:38
MoonTiger3d drivers for n810??!!20:38
GAN800But it didn't kill current N810s.20:38
MoonTigergood cos i love my n81020:38
* SpeedEvil sighs.20:38
javispedroand wtf does mean?20:38
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* GAN800 wonders how Clutter will run.20:39
johnsqjavispedro: it supports only 500mhz terminal design problems20:39
SpeedEviljavispedro: It means what it says on the tin.20:39
XisdibikGAN800: on what20:39
SpeedEviljavispedro: locking it at high frequency will damage it - for whatever reason20:40
MoonTigeris the n810 being open sourced in effect?20:40
javispedroand those kind of things are lost in a slide in a flicker photograph?20:40
javispedroI hope the builtin cpufreq handles that.20:40
MoonTigeri just got my n810 back from palco after being repaired ... 2 months20:41
GAN800MoonTiger, not really.20:41
GAN800But it means Mer can probably do some cool stuff.20:41
XisdibikI feel the pain MoonTiger,   I sent my subwoofer amp back for repairs (20 business days + shipping).  took the person over 2 months before it was even shipped back :/20:41
Xisdibiki feel your pain*20:41
GAN800javispedro, I'm sure it does.20:41
Xisdibiklol just woke up :/20:41
MoonTigerand then they got the shipping data wrong and customs here wanted to charge me $120 import duty20:43
Xisdibik^ didnt have that20:44
Xisdibikthat sux though20:44
MoonTigeryah ... i kinda lost it with them on the fone ... after 2 months of waiting that was too much20:45
MoonTigerso they paid it by refunding the cost of the repair20:45
MoonTigerwas nice of them20:45
ShadowJKiirc TI specs lists the expected lifetime for "overdrive" at >500MHz20:46
GAN800Who has MicroB running on Diablo? ;)20:47
* qwerty12_N810 has browserd disabled, and proud of it20:48
javispedroMe. Why?20:48
* SpeedEvil wonders if it's just a thermal issue.20:48
MoonTigerGAN800, are these 3d drivers going to be in a ota update?20:48
javispedroSpeedEvil: i found this...
SpeedEvilOr if you've got cunt density issues going on too like in the nvidia case.20:48
javispedrodoesn't say much tho.20:49
qwerty12_N810"cunt density"?20:49
Ronaldo38741Hen night20:49
b-man17does the browser in Maaemo 5 use browserd?20:50
MoonTigerqwerty12_N810, i was wondering about that too20:50
GAN800MoonTiger, no.20:50
SpeedEvilcurrent density20:50
MoonTigerGAN800, oh ok20:50
SpeedEvilThe nvida gpu issue was partially due to the high current flow through balls, combined with thermal issues.20:51
GAN800MoonTiger, if somebody in the community gets their shit together enough to ship a community SSU, then maybe.20:51
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javispedrobah, how quickly one releases an open device then goes back to making more closed ones.20:52
GAN800Yeah. :/20:53
GAN800We'll see.20:53
konttori__b-man17: yes, it uses browserd20:54
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konttori__that's the architecture of microb20:54
GAN800The whole canvas concept just leaves me thinking that will be a fucking pain in the ass.20:54
javispedroplus capacitive screen... not buying.20:55
javispedrowell, not linking what I see so far.20:55
GAN800Harmattan sounds like . . . lots of things I don't want.20:55
qwerty12_N810Harmattan sounds like Symbian/WinMo20:55
SpeedEvilMaybe they'll slash the n900 price and continue to sell it20:55
GAN800This, of course, is why I was fearing the whole 'mainstream' thing.20:56
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javispedroguess this answers the "why" question.20:56
GAN800Maemo Devices feels like it's being taken over by the marketing droids.20:56
* GAN800 sighs20:56
* javispedro depresses.20:56
GAN800Hopefully we'll know more soon so I don't waste my time longer than is necessary.20:57
SpeedEvilWorst (best) case.20:58
ShadowJKif someone made working handwriting recognition for asian languages maybe there's be resistive version for asian market :)20:59
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SpeedEvilSome other smaller maker notices the moderate interest in n900 and thinks that opensource is cool, and runs with mer+...20:59
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javispedroThe platform is going to diverge more from desktop Debian. And I can't see that as a good thing.20:59
GAN800Maybe we can watch Anssi get on stage again next year and tell us how to use Facebook.20:59
javispedroAt this point, I wouldn't be surprised if someone "suggests" dropping Xorg altogether because "Xorg support for multitouch sucks"/"performance" or whatever reasons.20:59
MoonTigermy problem with the n900 (well one of them) is the size ... its too small 'cos it had to be a fone as well21:00
MoonTigerthat res of screen on a device that small is silly21:00
GAN800It's really not.21:00
SpeedEvilRes is stupid.21:00
SpeedEvilYou cannot see >200dpi21:00
GAN800The screen is amazing.21:00
SpeedEvilSure - it'd be amazing at 200dpi21:00
GAN800You don't notice the size difference21:00
qwerty12_N810MoonTiger: Looking at the one in my hands, I can safely say that it is awesome21:00
MoonTigeri think the n810 screen is wonderful ... the n900 is significantly smaller21:00
javispedroSpeedEvil: I can see 1px in n810, and my sight is not good at all.21:00
GAN800SpeedEvil, that's clearly not a completely arbitray number.21:01
SpeedEviljavispedro: sure - you can see 1px21:01
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SpeedEviljavispedro: can you see the difference between 1px at 300dpi, and 1px at 200dpi21:01
GAN800MoonTiger, it's really not significantly smaller.21:01
MoonTigeri just bought a n86 fone so i dont need a n900 for a good while yet21:01
javispedroseeing 1px means you can perceive visual benefits from > 200dpi screens.21:01
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GAN800I don't want to see any pixels.21:01
SpeedEviljavispedro: It doesn't21:01
SpeedEviljavispedro: I can see an individual star.21:02
Ronaldo38741I see dead people21:02
SpeedEviljavispedro: This does not mean that my eyes resolution is 1/star-visual-size21:02
Ronaldo38741Wait, wrong channel21:02
* GAN800 launches ph's out of a cannon at MoonTiger. . . .21:02
javispedroSpeedEvil: this is the usual "25fps is not enough for the human eye if not motion blurred" discussion.21:02
SpeedEviljavispedro: not quite.21:02
* MoonTiger ducks21:02
glass__25fps is enough for asteroids21:03
MoonTigeri have my new t500 + my repaired n810 + my new n86 ... i have enough tech right now21:03
javispedrono, not that discussion again :=)21:03
GAN800SpeedEvil, speaking as somebody whose used both. The resolution is not 'silly'.21:03
SpeedEviljavispedro: It's that at some point, the eye physically cannot resolve between text at - say 300 and 400 dpi21:03
GAN800SpeedEvil, well, we aint there yet.21:04
javispedroSpeedEvil: however, you can note a difference between quality of text at 200dpi and 300dpi21:04
SpeedEvilPersonally, I can't - unless the device is under perhaps 15cm away.21:04
SpeedEvilAnd ...21:04
javispedroexactly the current distance between me and my n8x021:04
javispedrowell, 20cm.21:05
SpeedEvilFor that use-case, sure.21:05
javispedroeither way, It's not something I would flame about.21:06
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javispedroit's good, but not dealbreaker.21:06
SpeedEvilYou do know you can get 10cm bifocal length glasses - to make optimal use of the resolution?21:06
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* javispedro checks his glasses21:06
SpeedEvilWhat really pisses me off is 100dpi desktop monitors.21:07
SpeedEvilBecause that's well below the point I was mentioning above21:07
javispedrotrue, but I sit at a greater distance on my desktop monitor.21:08
SpeedEvilNot to mention widescreen, but that's a seperate issue.21:08
ShadowJKwe need a new unit21:08
ShadowJKpixels / degree21:08
* javispedro shudders at mention of blessed, signed firmware21:09
* GeneralAntilles wants the new goddamn firmware.21:09
ShadowJKwhen I have n810 it fills approximately same field of view as my desktop's monitor... slightly less21:09
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, yeah, somebody should probably mention to people to avoid subsidized units. ;)21:10
javispedroand as usual marketing always says "it's for protecting the user against viruses".21:10
GeneralAntillesSupport. Nightmare.21:10
GeneralAntillesFirst question to everybody who comes in here is going to have to be: "Where did you get your device?"21:10
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: I blame the goddamn Summit21:10
glass__javispedro: i just hope they learnt something from symbian on that..21:10
javispedroThey took too much beer at the summit.21:10
GeneralAntillesGoddamnit Summit indeed.21:10
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javispedro"most apps will run in unlocked mode". yeah.21:11
* GeneralAntilles will just install a custom kernel.21:11
ShadowJKbootloader disables drm for unsigned kernels :)21:12
javispedroby the time, I will probably go back to embedded x86.21:12
javispedroarm is doomed.21:12
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GeneralAntillesShadowJK, fine by me. ;)21:12
SpeedEvilFrom a marketing POV - they have to keep it closed enough to stop a random maker from china putting an OS the users already know on the device.21:14
SpeedEvilon their device21:14
javispedrothat explains why they keep the Sketch app closed.21:14
johnsqSpeedEvil: thats thinking of 100 years back21:15
javispedrobut not why all the new DRM fuss.21:15
rangeSo all the game makers will make their games for maemo. :)21:15
rangeI can understand it for business lockdown, though.21:16
SpeedEvilI've argued for some time that microsoft went into DRM in a big way so as to stall linux for a bit.21:16
SpeedEvil'Oh - I can't play ... under linux'21:16
SpeedEvil(media content)21:16
javispedroreplace media with media, games and software.21:16
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rangeI don't think that the drm thing is a good step to get people into programming free software for the devices.21:17
rangeApple, I despise you.21:17
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GeneralAntillesThe conspiracy theorists will have a field day with that one.21:19
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javispedroNOOOOOOOO the N900 has the usb connector on the wrong side. dealbreaker.21:20
* GeneralAntilles hits lbt.21:20
* GeneralAntilles is going to start issuing 24 bans to people who keep making me move wiki pages.21:20
Firebirdjavispedro, is that on talk.maemo?21:21
javispedronope, just saw a photo >:)21:21
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Lupujavispedro: I thought the same thing.21:23
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sheepbatI know, javispedro21:23
sheepbatI just saw that too21:24
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GeneralAntillesStupid phone app takes way too long to switch between landscape and portrait.21:27
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GeneralAntillesIt goes back and forth at least 3 times as you're taking it out of your pocket so you can't even answer the call.21:27
GeneralAntillesand turning off landscape just makes it obnoxious to use for VoIP. <_<21:27
ShadowJKfeature-complete with symbian then :)21:27
ShadowJKor should i say bug for bug compatibility21:28
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sheepbatdoes it freeze in the middle of a call?21:31
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GeneralAntillessheepbat, huh?21:36
sheepbatmy E62 does that on occasion21:37
sheepbatwhich means that, yes, my winmo phone is *more* stable than my symbian phone21:37
sheepbatgood god, that sounds sad21:38
ShadowJKall this talk about speeddialing and what not on tmo... doesn't anyone else have the issue with phones that it's too easy to call people accidentally21:38
glassrarely nowadays21:38
* ShadowJK 'd need a "you're about to make a call, are you sure or did you just press the weong button?"21:38
ShadowJKespecially with shortcuts everywhere that start a call21:39
sheepbati'm pretty good about it21:39
sheepbatI turn off the display before sticking the phone into my pocket, and that works pretty well21:39
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ShadowJKno I mean when using it21:39
glassah.. different thing21:40
ShadowJKnot keylock-fail type accidents21:40
sheepbathmm.. yeah, I don't have that problem either..21:41
sheepbatI rarely call people anyway21:42
ShadowJKI rarely call people21:42
javispedroouch, maemo-optify not on chinook extras.21:43
ShadowJKbut like, the other day I was sending an sms aon my e75 and accidentally started a call instead21:43
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ShadowJKdamn make call shortcut where I expected send message...21:43
sheepbatoh.. I know one particularly annoying thing...21:44
sheepbatin google maps21:44
sheepbatsearch for a business21:44
sheepbatand the first thing you can do with the result is *call* them21:44
sheepbatI've been very cautious and managed to avoid it21:44
sheepbatbut I could see that getting really annoying21:45
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rm_youanyone still around the ibis and still need dinner?21:53
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mgedminha! eat my socks proxy over ssh over http proxy, silly hotel wifi firewall22:32
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mgedmintsocks + ssh + proxytunnel + apache + mod_proxy_connect = win22:33
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MoonTigerdoes anyone know if screen rotation is possible with the latest n810 firmaware?22:44
Firebirdofficially? no.22:46
Firebirderm, officially/out of the box22:46
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FirebirdGeneralAntilles, what's the 48MHz patch do?22:47
GeneralAntillesUps the bus speed on the MMC buses.22:47
GeneralAntillesBut TI hasn't certified it to operate above 12MHz22:47
GeneralAntillesBecause there are stability issues with certain cards.22:47
GeneralAntillesFor most people you'll see a marginal speed boost.22:48
GeneralAntillesFor some, it could cook your card.22:48
GeneralAntillesThough the usual failure symptom is simple not being able to see the card until you reduce the bus speed.22:48
rm_youadvanced backlight does some rotation if you install a few helper packages22:52
rm_youmgedmin: we tried the same thing yesterday but failed22:52
mgedminblog post coming22:52
rm_youwhat port was your http proxy on22:52
GeneralAntillesrm_you, you find anybody to figure out xmodmap?22:53
rm_youno :/22:53
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rm_youi think that really may be the wrong way to do it tho22:53
rm_youshould really be app specific support :/22:53
GeneralAntillesMy explorations have been complete and utter fail so far.22:54
GeneralAntillesWith xmodmap or directly modifying the symbols files.22:54
GeneralAntillesI think Nokia is doing something dirty.22:54
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, what should be app-specific?22:54
GeneralAntillesrm_you, making ctrl-right arrow send tab? :P22:54
rm_youi can see rotating the screen with ABL and then having apps that are rotation sensitive try to figurem it out22:54
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rm_youbeing bad22:54
rm_youi read xrandr22:55
GeneralAntillesYeah, rotation should be accelerometer based per-app.22:55
rm_youwas already thinking about trotation :P22:55
GeneralAntillesSomebody needed to figure out xmodmap while we had the Nokians there. <_<22:55
GeneralAntillesIt'll be really easy to get all of the missing characters if we can get shift-fn working.22:55
rm_youwelli i'm at dinner with timeless...22:56
GeneralAntillesAsk him why they broke spacebar scrolling. <_<22:56
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rm_youin what22:56
GeneralAntillesIt scrolls about 1.2x the total page width.22:56
GeneralAntillesIt's like the reverse of keeping lines when paging. <_<22:56
rm_youhe isnt sure22:57
qwerty12_N810Ask him why you can't use the fucking arrow keys with the address bar. That shit drives me crazy22:57
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GeneralAntillesIt's like Nokia put a keyboard on here and then removed half of its functionality.22:57
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* GeneralAntilles throws Camels at lbt.22:57
GeneralAntillesFor some reason ctrl-n opens a new window in the browser22:58
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lbthey GeneralAntilles :)22:58
GeneralAntilleslbt, like I told Quim, I'm going to start docking karma points for CamelCased wiki articles. :P22:58
rm_youwhere are you lbt22:58
lbtoh, I missed the space22:59
lbtjust got home22:59
lbtwell, got home a while back22:59
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lbtam I on planet maemo yet?23:00
lbtmmm... yep23:01
rm_yougeneral: he says to take screenshots before and after a scroll23:01
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rm_youctrl-shift-p for screenshot23:01
lbthow come some articles get 1 line of intro, others get a few paragraphs23:01
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GeneralAntilleslbt, there's a hard cut-off at 1000 words.23:02
* mgedmin blogs about ssh and http proxies23:02
GeneralAntilleslbt, and the snipping script isn't totally intelligent.23:02
GeneralAntillesPatches welcome.23:02
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lbtGeneralAntilles: hmm, it did one line :23:02
mgedminoh crap, add DNAT into that mix and I can't use ssh over socks over ssh over http to ssh into the same host as the host doing the http proxying since the internal and external ip addresses are different from the remote lan perspective23:03
lbtmakes it less likely to be read - and it is an important subject23:03
mgedmina cookie to anybody who can figure out what I said23:03
lbtmgedmin: you can't do that23:03
GeneralAntilleslbt, like I said, patches welcome. ;)23:03
GeneralAntillesTalk to X-Fade if you need details.23:03
lbtshow me the git repo23:04
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* lbt looks at his handwritten iptables knock/ssh rules23:04
SpeedEvilmgedmin: does it matter? the addresses requested are requested at the proxy level23:05
mgedminit matters, because when I use the external IP, I'm connecting to the router23:05
mgedminthe router can DNAT my connection from the outside in, but it cannot DNAT it from the inside back in23:05
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, they're on my photostream. :D23:06
SpeedEvilmgedmin: I mean if you connect to bar, with foo as the router, and then connect to through bar, not 'bar'23:06
mgedminand this means I can't push my blog entry over ssh...23:07
SpeedEvilmgedmin: if that makes sense.23:07
SpeedEvilmgedmin: or a hosts entry for bar's internal address23:07
mgedminit's "svn commit" that does the "connect to the.external.hostname" bit, I can hardly tell it to use the internal address23:07
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mgedminunless I svn switch --relocate, which would be a pain23:07
mgedmina temporary hosts entry would be interesting23:07
SpeedEvilmgedmin: hosts?23:07
mgedminI wish tsocks would redirect DNS queries to the proxy side...23:08
GeneralAntillesrm_you, 2 spacebar presses.23:08
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* GeneralAntilles loves Flickr sharing.23:09
zerojay_N900me too.23:09
GeneralAntillesThe tag cloud is going to get a bit . . . crowded soon, though.23:09
mgedminyay it worked!23:10
zerojay_N900im still at the subject of my last pic.23:10
GeneralAntilleslbt, perpetrate. ;)23:10
mgedminshame this doesn't help me ssh into my n900; the wifi ap here doesn't allow client-to-client communication at all afaics23:11
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rm_yougarbeam: he said some stuff about ctrl-w being dangerous because theres no umdo action for accidentally hitting it, while ctrl-n doesnt risk data loss23:12
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rm_youmgedmin: adhoc? bluetooth pan? usb nat?23:12
mgedminadhoc = fail on my laptop side (iwl3945)23:12
mgedminpan = massive usability fail, tried, gave up screaming in frustration23:13
mgedminusb??  cables are for hobos23:13
GeneralAntillesrm_you, hopefully we can patch it. <_<23:13
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mgedminbtw the pan thing was with my n810, not the n90023:13
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mgedminuser-friendly pan would rock23:13
mgedmina n900 pretending to be a wifi ap (with dhcp and 3g connection sharing) would rock even more23:14
mgedminI wonder if the hardware is capable of that23:15
SpeedEvilmgedmin: they are selling those in the UK23:15
mgedminthen I wonder if the driver is capable of that23:15
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SpeedEvilWhy eww?23:16
wazdSpeedEvil: it's completely tasteless :D23:16
wazdSpeedEvil: I mean completely :)23:16
SpeedEviloh - right - missed the context23:16
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, I'd sleep with one eye open tonight. Jaffa's probably out to get you: :P23:16
GeneralAntilleswazd, agreed.23:17
lbtGeneralAntilles: fixed ... can I have a +thumb now23:17
GeneralAntillesUnless you're an exec.23:17
GeneralAntilleslbt, not done reading. :P23:17
mgedminjaffa already left the country, I believe23:17
mgedminI should be safe until next summit23:17
GeneralAntillesThat's what you think.23:17
mgedminI wish flickr wouldn't stall so I could see why I'm supposed to worry23:17
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wazdGAN900: the only thing worse is Fring for Maemo23:18
GeneralAntillesUgh, Fring.23:18
SpeedEvilkindle could be more open23:18
GeneralAntillesI still have nightmares about them adding the SDK repo to the device with a .install for a piece of software ONLY NEWBIES EVER USE.23:18
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GeneralAntillesmgedmin, this may help:
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mgedminoh dear, is that my evil twin?23:19
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* qwerty12_N810 can't decide who's the scary one23:20
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GeneralAntillesOK, fine, lbt, you get a heart.23:20
rm_youdid i miss something? :P23:20
GeneralAntillesrm_you, yes, be a good sock puppet and heart lbt's post here:
lbtsecurity talk?23:20
mgedminwtf geotags have the same silly presets every time?23:21
rm_youyeah i added amsterdam but next time it was gone23:22
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GeneralAntillesI like this presentation:
mgedminadding tags for multiple images one by one is not fun23:22
mgedmintag an image and try to swipe to the next one23:23
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mgedminin the middle of your swipe the old image reloads and you end up looking at the same thing23:24
mgedminwith confusing and bewildering visual effects23:24
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* GeneralAntilles wants the new firmware so he can file some damn bugs.23:25
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mgedminduh, there's a tag multiple images option in the menu if I go back to the list23:25
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, ah, good to know.23:26
mgedmincrap, the virtual kb takes too long to show up23:26
mgedminwhat I do is this: tap an input field, wait 1 second, decide the vkb is not going to appear, slide open the device23:27
mgedminas soon as I do that the vkb pops up23:27
mgedminI try hitting vkb keys, since it did appear23:27
GeneralAntillesTo anybody that now has a device, find yourself a decent pair of headphones and list to the application launch sound with them.23:27
mgedminbut within 1 second it goes away again23:27
GeneralAntillesNokia creates a new set of virtual input bugs everytime they hit a major release.23:27
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mgedminGeneralAntilles: what's special about that sound?23:28
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, it sounds exactly like somebody is going "schwit" into a microphone.23:29
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GeneralAntillesWith cans, it sounds like a Nokian is standing over your shoulder and doing the system effects live.23:29
GeneralAntillesCracks me up everytime I hear it.23:29
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* Tadthebuilder hates drm23:29
mgedminsharing via service: click options, don't change anything, click done23:30
mgedminnothing happens23:30
mgedminfor a second or two23:30
mgedminwhich is when I start clicking done again23:30
mgedminright at that moment the dialog closes and I end up clicking share23:31
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's obnoxious.23:31
GeneralAntillesSeems like there are missing "Just hang on, I'm doing something" indicators in a lot of places.23:31
mgedminand since I go through the dialog in the normal order (top-down, left-right), it means I update title, description, tags, then click options, and end up sharing on the WRONG ACCOUNT23:31
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* Tadthebuilder will never buy an audible audio book again23:36
mgedminwhat do they do?  use a speech synthesizer?23:38
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mgedminstuff it full of ads?23:39
mgedminput drm in?23:39
Tadthebuilderi did not think that it wou,ld23:39
Tadthebuildercause its through amazon23:39
Tadthebuilderand amazon's music is drmless23:39
Tadthebuilderbut its drmed23:39
GeneralAntillesDRM really needs to die.23:40
Tadthebuilderand Im having trouble locating a free program23:40
Tadthebuilderto remove it23:40
Tadthebuilder(tons of expensive ones)23:40
Tadthebuilderit looks like Im going to have to take a cd drive out of a different computer23:40
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Tadthebuilderburn it to cd (which it will let  you do)23:40
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Tadthebuilderand then rip it23:40
Tadthebuilderbut I lose some quality with that23:40
Tadthebuilderyou can put it on some mp3 player23:40
Tadthebuildermy n800 is not one of them23:40
Tadthebuilderof course23:40
mgedminany virtualization solutions support virtual cd burning (into image files)?23:40
Tadthebuilderthat should be possible23:41
Tadthebuilderas well23:41
TadthebuilderIm having trouble doing that in windows23:41
javispedrodamn kirby's dream course, battery out in hole 8 :(23:41
zerojayjavispedro: Awesome game.23:41
TadthebuilderI can do it linux without a problem23:41
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Tadthebuilderthat is an awesome game23:41
mgedminwhat was that windows virtual cd drive thingy, and does it support "burning"?23:41
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mgedmindaemon tools or something23:41
zerojayjavispedro: What's new in today's SNES update?23:41
Tadthebuilderwell I have daemon tools light, but it does not support burning23:42
Tadthebuilderatleast as far as I can tell23:42
Tadthebuilderlike I said23:42
TadthebuilderI dont use windows much23:42
zerojayYes, Daemon tools.23:42
javispedrozerojay: minor things with onscreen buttons. Addison kept bugging me about them ;)23:42
* mgedmin plugged in the charger and was scared by the sound effect from outer space23:42
javispedroah, and optified on maemo.23:42
* mgedmin was using the silent profile since the very beginning, out of consideration for the summit participants23:42
zerojayI think Alcohol 120% supports both.23:42
javispedroonly missing for extras-testing is an onscreen exit button now.23:42
Tadthebuilderlet me see what that will cost me...23:42
Tadthebuilderlooks like a fifteen day trial23:43
Tadthebuilderunlimited uses though23:43
Tadthebuilderby that I mean it looks like it is not a limited trial other than the time period23:44
zerojayioquake3 is available, but missing a dependency still. :/23:44
* GeneralAntilles considers trying again to get Quake 3 running. . . .23:44
GeneralAntilleszerojay, it's in Nokia Binaries.23:44
mgedminwhy does have to do javascripty-uploads?  if it wants to track hits, why can't it do http redirects?23:44
qwerty12_N900zerojay: grab it from nokia-binaries23:44
GeneralAntillesBut I'm way too lazy to try to extricate it.23:44
qwerty12_N900it's how I got it working on this N90023:44
javispedronokia-binaries to device? O.o23:45
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mgedminzerojay, I saw with my own eyes someone install ioquake3 from extras-devel23:45
mgedminthe dependencies have been fixed23:45
mgedminstill, no data files -> no fun23:45
GeneralAntillesThose I've got.23:46
GeneralAntillesDemo files should be usable, right?23:46
GeneralAntillesOnly about 50MB23:46
zerojaymgedmin: Well, it's not there... so...23:46
mgedminmaybe he had bounce installed and you don't23:47
qwerty12_N900mgedmin: you were at the Summit, is quake 3 meant to move forward automatically23:48
mgedminI haven't seen quake 3 on a nxxx23:48
zerojayI have bounce installed.23:48
infobotmgedmin meant: I haven't seen quake 3 on a nit23:48
qwerty12_N900mgedmin: bounce installed/not-installed isn't relevant23:48
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mgedminI thought maybe some other app had pulled that dependency from the nokia repo23:48
GeneralAntillesAh, no wonder.23:48
mgedminokay, actually I've no idea why I thought that23:49
zerojayopengles-sgx-img-common is missing.23:49
mgedminin retrospect, it makes no sense23:49
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qwerty12_N900It's fun to play, but the way it moves forward and aims for you automatically is weird23:50
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Ceron^why cant we get a market person from nokia to this channel to tell us when the first n900 will ship23:53
kirmawhoever maintains could remove my broken wallpaper submission. obviously at least grayscale+alpha png wasn't very well accepted by the site...23:54
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mgedminCeron^: I bet they don't know themselves23:54
GeneralAntillesUgh, they need newer versions?23:54
mgedmin"when the critical firmware bugs are fixed"23:55
Ceron^is the n900 really that unfinnished23:55
javispedrokirma: I believe he's not here, but at least on tmo.23:55
SpeedEvilCeron^: They are all busy wrapping.23:55
mgedminthere are some rough corners23:55
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mgedmine.g. bluetooth file transfers are kinda totally broken23:55
kirmajavispedro: "tmo" ?23:55
mgedminbrowser's addon user interface is horrible23:55
kirmaI should probably finally create an user account there... if I don't have some ancient one already :)23:56
mgedminit doesn't speak openid?23:56
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zerojayCeron^: It's done when it's done. It's for these reasons Nokia doesn't give out release dates.23:58
zerojaymgedmin: Bluetooth transfer worked fine for me. And I'm on older firmware. It was just somewhat slow.23:59
zerojaymgedmin: And the addon user interface is Firefox's and hasn't been finished yet.23:59
mgedminzerojay: bluetooth OPP into a n900 fails with big files23:59
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