IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-10-09

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pupnik_havent seen any streams announced00:04
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javispedrosigh at tmo...00:30
EspadaV8ooooh, a live stream would be nice00:30
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Stskeepswith all the tablets it wouldnt have enough bw00:30
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crashanddiehello :)00:31
fralsyeah, bambuser or something similiar would be cool00:31
crashanddiefrom amsterdam00:31
javispedrohowdy00:31
fralso/00:31
Stskeepslo crashanddie00:32
qwerty12_N810Hi, crashanddie00:32
qwerty12_N810Moved on from blow-up dolls yet? :P00:32
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crashanddiewhat'd'ya mean "moved on"?00:32
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crashanddiewhy would I want to move on?00:32
qwerty12_N810lol00:32
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Macerhahaha00:33
pupnikwhen should we sign-in?00:33
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: Has dneary given you any dirty looks in person for your IRC outburst? :p00:33
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crashanddieqwerty12_N810: didn't meet him00:33
qwerty12_N810Ah00:34
crashanddieqwerty12_N810: I tried calling gary and simon, but nobody's phone is working, it would appear00:34
crashanddieyes I know, ironic for a convention around a glorified phone platform00:34
pupnik :)00:34
javispedrodamn smartphones :)00:34
qwerty12_N810I hear the workers are going underground in the Red Light District00:34
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Macerblah.. downloading a ton of videos so i can watch something on this touchbook later00:37
crashanddie"touchbook" takes a whole new dimension if it's porn you're downloading00:37
Macerhaha00:37
Maceryeah. it comes with a usb virtual vagina00:37
GAN800<_<00:38
qwerty12_N810+1 for the touchbook00:38
qwerty12_N810The N900 can only recover if it comes with one of those Japanese female robots00:38
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fralsseems like people have stopped even trying to search for answers on t.m.o nowadays :<00:39
qwerty12_N810frals: This is nothing new :p00:39
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Macerwell.. this tb os needs a lot of work00:40
javispedrofrals: was thinking the same.00:40
javispedrothis is awful.00:40
GAN800Ah, rocker. Thanks, qwerty12.00:40
javispedroif this trend continues...00:40
Maceri'm really more so looking forward to google os to see if it's any good00:41
Macerespecially if they release an openhardware version00:41
GAN800Welcome to every new Maemo release. ;)00:41
* EspadaV8 is jealous of everyone there00:41
javispedroGAN800: ah, the flur dies out after a while?00:41
GAN800Usually00:41
GAN800Expect at least one good flame war. ;)00:41
javispedrohopefully.00:41
crashanddieGAN800: from you being online I take it there was no passport this morning?00:42
javispedroGAN800: I expect a big one after all the idiots who haven't bothered to search nor ask get the phone and start wondering why they can't mms.00:42
GAN800But all the new people will learn the ropes with time.00:42
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GAN800crashanddie, it came about 5 hours ago.00:42
javispedros/mms/$RANDOM_SYMBIAN_FEATURE .00:42
GAN800About 28 hours too late.00:42
crashanddieGAN800: so why are you not on a plane?00:42
Macerhe is00:43
Macerplanes have wifi00:43
Macer:)00:43
GAN800You think I have $1100 just lying around?00:43
crashanddiesell your mac pro00:43
GAN800Pfft00:43
qwerty12_N810Maemo Summit > Mac00:44
javispedroqwerty12_N810: Maemo Summit > school.00:44
GAN800The N900 aint quite ready to replace a real computer. ;)00:44
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zerojayGAN800: Heh.. that +- was my kid moving my keyboard to use my desk. I was still at work and just happened to see your comment through the #maemo irc logs.00:45
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* GAN800 mutters evil things about the State Department.00:45
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: Maemo Summit > N90000:45
GAN800zerojay, lol00:45
javispedroqwerty12_N810: now you made me cry.00:45
zerojayqwerty12_N810: Thanks a ton for the packaging stuff. I'm starting on it in a few minutes.00:45
GAN800crashanddie, now you've made me depressed again. :P00:46
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qwerty12_N810zerojay: Cool, your latest backgrounds are awesome00:46
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Since I'm on a roll... Megadrive > SNES00:46
* javispedro does not flame on oldie consoles :)00:47
GAN800qwerty12, libnotify + XChat = win. . . .00:47
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zerojayqwerty12_N810: Thanks.. it's not been easy... so many small things that need to be fixed in each wallpaper.. that Donkey Kong one is a killer.00:47
* GAN800 wonders why AIM hasn't worked for the past week.00:47
javispedrodid it ever work ;)00:47
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qwerty12_N810Heh, I have the graphical ability of a retarded, blind monkey who happens to be masturbating00:48
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GAN800Well, in rtcom more specificalky.00:48
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zerojayYeah, compared to the people I'm surrounded with at work (pixel and 3d artists), I feel the same way.00:48
qwerty12_N810GAN800: Does it work? (libnotify + XChat?)00:48
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GAN800qwerty12, no?00:48
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Well, you know my thoughts on the Wii :p00:48
javispedroqwerty12_N8100:48
qwerty12_N810GAN800: Bleh, maybe tomorrow then00:49
javispedrothere, I've downgraded your NIT.00:49
GAN800Let me switch to FBReader and highlight me?00:49
qwerty12_N810GAN800 sucks00:49
zerojayBuy Juan, get Julio free.00:49
GAN800Yeah, no.00:49
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qwerty12_N810GAN800: I'll look into it tomorrow then, getting it working in Transmission was fun00:50
GAN800Hehe00:50
zerojayTransmission CHUGS when there's a lot of seeds on a torrent.00:50
qwerty12_N810Yep :/00:51
zerojayCompletely unresponsive for minutes at a time.00:51
* jaska fondles rtorrent00:51
Macerrtorrent always was the best one to use i think00:52
Macerespecially once you figure out the 5000 character config file line to get it to automatically move finished files00:52
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javispedrooh, they're now trying to somehow shove the htc hd2 as a viable competitor.00:53
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zerojayhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=342118&postcount=21 <--- whhhaaa00:54
* qwerty12_N810 has a soft spot for WinMo. Then again, my only PPC was of the non-phone variety00:54
qwerty12_N810ROFL00:54
javispedrozerojay: saw that. my average hairloss per second briefly increased.00:54
jaskahd2? no kbd :(00:55
pupnikhas anyone hooked-up with ukki in amsterdam?00:55
javispedrojaska: and wm. every review has nearly panned it.00:55
jaskawell, id take wm over symbian :)00:55
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jaskaand wm over osx-arm (iphone, atleast in its current form without jailbreaking)00:56
javispedromy only contact with wm was quite a few years ago with a casiopeia e-10 and I was scarred for life.00:56
jaskai know my jornada 720's wince3 and the ipaq first couple gens wince were absolutely terrible00:57
qwerty12_N810Pocket LOOX 720 <300:57
javispedroqwerty12_N810: you're talking to an ex-palmos fanboy. >:)00:57
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qwerty12_N810Heh, well, I've already told you what happened to my only Palm...00:58
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javispedroI don't remember right now, but my brain hurts when I try. So it had to be something truly evil.00:59
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qwerty12_N810Dropped it and the screen cracked up00:59
javispedroI was going to ask you not to perturb my poor mind by reminding that to me.01:00
javispedrobah, the HD2 is even more expensive than the n900.01:01
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javispedroCa. Ca. Capacitive touchscreen in WM???01:04
javispedrowm must have changed a lot.01:04
qwerty12_N810Hmm, there's a new Talk member called "drm". I say we burn him/her at the stake01:04
* jaska pours some thermite01:05
GAN800them, qwerty12, them.01:06
GAN800zerojay, ahahaha01:06
qwerty12_N810GAN800: Thanks, I always seem to think it refers to more than one person01:06
GAN800It's the thinking that gets you. :P01:07
GAN800Hey, wouldn't you know Nokia's got a web runtime. . . .01:08
qwerty12_N810Yes, which requires WebKit. Please Nokia, bring it to Fremantle...01:10
GAN800There's a talk at the Summit.01:10
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javispedrotoooo many new users.01:14
GeneralAntillesYeah :\01:14
GeneralAntillesThey better bring money.01:14
javispedroi'd hoped they'd bring apps.01:14
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GeneralAntillesMoney means Nokia can bring apps.01:15
GeneralAntillesand we'll get some of those, too.01:15
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luke-jr_(crappy apps)01:16
Tadthebuilderor good apps01:16
* luke-jr_ hides01:16
Tadthebuilderpessimism...01:16
javispedrohow have we invoked luke-jr? neither of us typed the "free" keyword ;)01:16
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luke-jr_javispedro: I don't use that keyword.01:17
javispedrohehe.01:17
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Tadthebuilderhey01:18
Tadthebuilderi just found out im not the only ordained minister who is a member of tmo01:18
GeneralAntillesAre we going to have to start the community religious council now?01:19
Tadthebuildernah01:20
TadthebuilderI think we are good01:20
pupnikThe Tribal Leaders01:20
* pupnik puts on warpaint01:20
qwerty12_N810Maemo Holy Edition01:20
TadthebuilderI am glad that some people are working on a bible program for the n900 though01:20
Tadthebuilderthats pretty cool01:20
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TadthebuilderThere was an Ubuntu christian edition for a bit01:20
GeneralAntillesWhy does it seem people mostly want apps as a statistic to beat users of other platforms with?01:20
Tadthebuilderit was kind of a joke01:20
Tadthebuilderbecause01:21
Tadthebuilderthey are childish01:21
pupnikthere was one for the 770 as well01:21
GeneralAntillesI've had nearly all of my needs covered just fine by the great apps available on Maemo.01:21
Tadthebuilderand want to be able to show off....01:21
Tadthebuilderlook we have 52102804 apps01:21
Tadthebuilderhow many do you have>01:21
pupniksomeone with python skill could make mytube better01:21
GeneralAntillesOf the iPhone's bajillion and one apps I've been impressed by very, very few of them.01:21
Tadthebuilderoh only 5210280301:21
Tadthebuilderwe win01:21
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: Fart apps and iBoobs are the shit01:21
GeneralAntillesAlso: I hate that "app" has become a part of the common lexicon.01:21
TadthebuilderId be impressed with the fart apps if they smelled01:22
Tadthebuilderlike farts01:22
GeneralAntillesPeople love to toss around the term but none of them could even tell you what the hell an "app" is.01:22
Tadthebuilderan application01:22
Tadthebuilder:P)01:22
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javispedroaw yes. another term apple popularized.01:22
GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder, most of them can't even come up with that.01:22
Tadthebuilderid just like to point out that01:23
GeneralAntilles"But, but—it's got apps!"01:23
Tadthebuilderthe word is at the top of my screen in fnome01:23
GeneralAntillesInteresting01:23
Tadthebuildergnome*01:23
Tadthebuilderand lazy people shorten it to app, or apps. I think its pre-iphone in popularity01:23
* GeneralAntilles wonder's what's autoreplacing "- -" with an em-dash.01:23
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qwerty12_N810-_-01:24
GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder, in technical circles, sure.01:24
TadthebuilderI thought you were saying my statement wa s interesting01:24
GeneralAntillesBut its use by the common moron is an Apple phenomenon.01:24
javispedroyeah. Apple made "the app" a cult-thing.01:24
GeneralAntillesWell, I don't like like use real em-dashes in mediums where most people are using monospaced fonts. ;)01:24
Tadthebuilderwhat did they call specific instances of code designed to do something on top of the operating system prior to apps?01:24
Tadthebuilderprograms?01:25
Tadthebuilderthings01:25
Corsacstuff01:25
javispedrothey called those things by name.01:25
Tadthebuilderthe only two general terms I can think of are programs and applications01:25
qwerty12_N810Those fucking "There's an app for that" adverts are hilarious01:25
GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder, most people don't differentiate.01:25
Tadthebuilderwait01:25
GeneralAntillesThose are just "Word" or "Outlook"01:25
Tadthebuilderthey are the same thing right?01:25
Tadthebuilderah okay01:25
javispedro"install Office" or "run Word".01:26
Tadthebuilderbut wait01:26
Tadthebuilder....01:26
Tadthebuilderwhat if they needed a new program01:26
Tadthebuilderor app01:26
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Tadthebuilderwould they just say I need something on my computer that can do such and such01:26
Tadthebuilderor would they say I need a new program on my computer to do such and such01:26
Tadthebuilderor I need a new application on my computer to do such and such01:26
Tadthebuilderive used both before pre-iphone01:26
Tadthebuilderbut maybe other people did not01:26
pupnikApparently the amsterdam folks are not online01:27
pupnik:/01:27
GeneralAntillesI love how the device isn't even out yet and its history has already been decided.01:27
javispedroIMHO they'd say "you suck as a tech" then flagellate me and I'd have to read their minds to know what their want.01:27
pupnikhow non-geeky of them01:27
GeneralAntillespupnik, Qole and timsamoff should be available by email.01:27
pupniki was searching for when things start tomorrow, GeneralAntilles - do you know?01:27
Tadthebuilderhope they are having fun01:27
Tadthebuilderand staying away from the magic brownies01:27
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GeneralAntillespupnik, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Schedule01:28
pupnikah 901:28
qwerty12_N810It's Amsterdam: They're probably flying high01:28
GeneralAntilleshttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=342109&postcount=1101:28
* GeneralAntilles doesn't get it.01:28
Tadthebuildersometimes I wonder if more people in amesterdam get high or la01:28
TadthebuilderLA01:28
javispedroGeneralAntilles: deep inside me I just wish they all leave.01:29
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, well, either they'll buy it or they wont.01:29
javispedrobut as I've usually said, that's why nobody with any commercial sense has to listen to me.01:29
GeneralAntillesMost of the ones that don't will leave01:29
GeneralAntillesmost of the ones that do will probably leave, too.01:29
GeneralAntillesThe rest will acclimate with time.01:29
Tadthebuilderwhat the amount of colours on the n900?01:29
javispedroGeneralAntilles: they'll leave right after The Great 2009 N900 Backslash.01:29
Tadthebuilderconflicting statemetns on tmo01:29
GeneralAntillesI do love the ones who don't own a device and never will but just stick around and troll.01:30
javispedrowhen idiots notice it's not a symbian phone but "step 4 of 5".01:30
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GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder, I think compositing is thousands, screen is millions.01:30
Tadthebuilderah okay01:30
Tadthebuilderwait01:30
javispedro16 bit framebuffer, 18 bit screen, what I said on my first post.01:30
Tadthebuilderwhy does the person expect a bunch of apps at launch?01:30
Tadthebuilderdid the iphone have a ton of apps at launch?01:31
Tadthebuilderdoes any new platform?01:31
GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder, no, which is why that statement is so silly.01:31
SpeedEvil1Tadthebuilder: some do01:31
GeneralAntillesand the claim that Maemo developers can't do UI stuff is silly, too.01:31
SpeedEvil1Tadthebuilder: if the company has made lots01:31
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johnsqTadthebuilder: maemo is around many years, there you can aspect good apps01:31
Tadthebuilderi have a n80001:31
Tadthebuilderi know about the programs I can run it01:32
Tadthebuilder(Im going to start using programs as opposed to apps, dont know why)01:32
GeneralAntillesLot of apps will need updating to make them look nice in Fremantle.01:32
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GeneralAntillesBut plenty of them already have been: http://maemo.org/packages01:32
Tadthebuilderand there are a lot of nice programs on the n800 and from what ive seen alot of them have been updated01:32
Tadthebuildermaybe that guy is missing the fart apps01:32
Tadthebuilder(programs)01:32
javispedroyes!01:33
Tadthebuilderbut on something like the n90001:33
Tadthebuilderwith its superior browser01:33
Tadthebuilderyou dont need alot of those iphone style apps01:33
javispedrobut come to think of it even the iPhone didn't have fart apps for a year.01:33
Tadthebuilderthat really just redisplay a website01:34
javispedroin fact it didn't have any app...01:34
Tadthebuilderin a different form01:34
Tadthebuilderatleast you dont on the n80001:34
Tadthebuildermaybe the screen size is what makes those neccessary01:34
Tadthebuilderdonno01:34
Tadthebuilderthat seems to be what alot of them do01:34
Tadthebuilderthere was news recently abotu a CNN one that showed video!!!01:34
TadthebuilderWhy cant I just go to Cnn.com and watch the videos there?01:35
javispedroTadthebuilder: Jobs' hate for Flash.01:35
javispedrosomething I'd actually agree on, but then not on a flagship consumer device.01:35
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Tadthebuilderyou know what would be cool01:35
Tadthebuildera boxing match between bill gates and steve jobs01:36
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javispedrono.01:36
Tadthebuilderno?01:36
Tadthebuilderyou dont think two nerds fighting would be cool?01:36
javispedrothey would start kissing themselves.01:36
javispedrothey're still lovers since the eighties.01:36
Tadthebuilderthats strange01:36
Tadthebuilderby themselves you meant each other?01:36
qwerty12_N810Thanks for that horrible mental image01:36
mavhcbbc just aired Micro Men, about 2 nerds fighting01:37
TadthebuilderI dont get bbc01:37
Tadthebuilderactually I dont have a tv...01:37
TadthebuilderI watch hulu01:37
Tadthebuilderhaha01:37
mavhcI get torrents, don't watch broadcast01:38
qwerty12_N810BBC owns, but only because of Eastenders01:38
* javispedro is patiently waiting for someone on his favourite maemo fansite idiot forum to get the n900 and see how it can't load any java apps. 01:38
javispedrothen watch his face.01:38
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javispedrowhat will he post? "N900 sucks" or "Java sucks".01:38
javispedrowanna bet?01:38
Tadthebuilderwhat maemo fansite is this?01:38
GeneralAntilles"javispedro sucks!"01:38
javispedronot going to say the name just in case someone of them is crawling the logs :)01:38
GeneralAntillesand they totally do.01:39
mavhcqwerty12_N810: wow, you were born without the taste gene01:39
Tadthebuildermaybe we should give a n900 to banksy01:39
Tadthebuilderand let him get the word out01:39
javispedroGeneralAntilles: i'm a paranoid :)01:39
Tadthebuilderin his spray paint skills01:39
Tadthebuilderand say it does have java01:39
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I'm not joking. :P01:39
Tadthebuilderthat is mean mavhc01:39
qwerty12_N810mavhc: It's total shit nowadays, but it's had some good moments in the past :p01:40
javispedrowell, if you're reading this, whoever you are, I was not talking about your site.01:40
GeneralAntillesKinda like qwerty12_N810.01:40
qwerty12_N810Want to see what Christmas brings...01:40
TadthebuilderI can see the rat with an n90001:40
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* Tadthebuilder wonders what site it is...01:40
Tadthebuilderi want to go to a maemo fansite01:40
qwerty12_N810www.javispedro.com01:40
Tadthebuilderwhat fansite should I go to?01:40
Tadthebuilderthats only generally01:41
Tadthebuilderassociated with maemo01:41
* javispedro considers putting some adsense and truly starting a maemo fansite...01:41
Tadthebuilderfracturing?01:41
javispedroby spreading some lies about the n900 hw I may even get enough adsense money to buy one myself!01:42
pupniklol01:42
qwerty12_N810Nokia will blacklist your site01:43
pupnikjavispedro has the coolest app for maemo atm01:43
pupnik:P01:43
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Sargun18 days.01:44
pupniktil what01:44
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qwerty12_N810period01:45
javispedrountil we all die.01:45
javispedrodidn't you watch that movie?01:45
javispedrohow was it named... ah yes, The Ring.01:45
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pupnik20:00 Maemo Party in FlexBar DJ's Russ Chimes & Grum (check the mixtapes!) visuals by Xploitec VJ's. coordinated by Jussi Mäkinen.01:49
pupnik^^nice01:49
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pupniki didn't watch The Ring yet01:49
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pupnikcan we attend any expert stream we like?01:52
pupniki.e. switch between lectures01:52
pupnikmust be01:52
pupnik Fremantle Stars showcase01:52
pupnikIncluding liqbase, OSM2Go, Mauku, OMWeather, eCoach and more.01:52
Tadthebuilderliqbase is awesome!!!01:53
TadthebuilderIm a bit obsessed01:53
Tadthebuilderthe only time Im not running liqbase on my n800 is when im playing ines01:54
SargunI'm bored.01:54
GeneralAntillespupnik, yes.01:54
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Tadthebuilderwait01:55
Tadthebuilderthe lectures are being streemed?01:55
Tadthebuilderso its like we are there without paying thousands of dollars?01:55
Tadthebuilderand without getting a contact high?01:56
Tadthebuilderseems like we get the best of both worlds.01:56
Firebirdreally? I haven't actually seen any streams01:57
Firebirdah, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Organization#Live_streaming01:57
Tadthebuilderwhat the time different between eastern US time and amsterdam?01:58
Firebirdnothing official though01:58
Firebirdhm01:58
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pupnik5 or 6 hours02:01
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Tadthebuilderit doesnt seem like there was in confirmation02:06
Tadthebuilderthat they were going to be recorded a stremed02:07
Tadthebuilderonly that someone suggested it02:07
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pupnikbe nice to the speakers and don't stream it02:11
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pupniksummit lookin good:  http://www.westergasfabriek.nl/uploads/190X190_event_aifw_lippenstift.jpg02:14
pupniki love text like this02:14
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pupnik"If you're looking for an adventurous, unpolished venue for an event, then the Westergasfabriek Culture Park is worth a visit. "02:14
Tadthebuilderim not quite sure I understand that picture02:17
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GAN800pupnik, I do not think that word means what you think it means. ;)02:19
pupnik:)02:19
pupnikI'm looking for an adventurous, unpolished dutch girl02:19
GAN800They have one of a furry convention. <_<02:19
Tadthebuilderhopefully shaven02:20
pupnikgirls don't need to shave02:20
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pupniksorry, i had to type that02:20
Tadthebuilderonly if they grow beards02:20
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pupnikright.  well if anybody has last minute requests02:20
pupniklol02:20
Tadthebuilderokay im in charge of music at my wedding reception in 9 days02:20
Tadthebuilderany suggestions?02:20
pupnikMuslimguaze02:21
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Tadthebuilder(dont worry about dancing...it will be possible but no one will)02:21
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Tadthebuildermy friends are lame02:21
Tadthebuilderthey dont dance02:21
Tadthebuilderhaha02:21
TadthebuilderIm having a first dance with my wife and then I would guess that almost no one will dance after that02:21
pupnikMaybe dancing is for kids02:21
Tadthebuilderits possible02:21
pupnikI enjoyed it, but i don' feel so exhuberant at 4002:22
Tadthebuilderwell im only 2302:22
Tadthebuilderas are most of my friends...02:22
Tadthebuilderhaha02:22
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pupnikSo dance...02:31
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pupnikif you are DJ'ing, you need to balance between songs your audience knows and loves, and songs you think they might love02:32
pupnikright.  I have decided to wear a red-purple cap at summit.02:33
pupnikit looks very stupid02:33
Firebirdtake it off?02:33
GAN800pupnik, it's a tech summit. They're all geeks. :P02:33
pupnikyah02:34
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pupnikreight then02:37
pupnikcheers02:37
GAN800Later02:37
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Tadthebuilderim not really djing...02:37
Tadthebuilderhaha02:37
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Tadthebuilderim the groom...02:37
Tadthebuilderim just in charge of choosing the songs ahead of time02:37
Tadthebuilderwate02:38
Tadthebuilderyour not at the summit or you wouldnt be here02:38
GAN800He's got WiFi surely.02:39
Tadthebuilderyeah02:39
Tadthebuilderbut why would he be on if hes at the summit?02:40
Tadthebuilderno one else from the summit is02:40
Tadthebuilderpupnik>Apparently the amsterdam folks are not online02:40
GAN800Tadthebuilder, take pupnik's advice then be sure to vary the music. A few fast songs, then a few slow, then some more fast, etc.02:40
GAN800There'll be a lot more on tomorrow when they're all actually in one place with WiFi02:41
Tadthebuilderah I could see that02:41
Tadthebuildervariation is a good idea...:) thanks02:42
GAN800Also considering having the wedding party learn Thriller or similar. :P02:42
Tadthebuilderthat wouldbe might funny02:42
Tadthebuilderbut only 9 days02:42
Tadthebuilderdont think I can put that together in time02:42
Tadthebuilderand i think the mother of the bride would throw a fit.. haha02:43
Tadthebuilderis there a required languange for all talks to be given in at the summit?02:45
Tadthebuilderor are some in english others finnish, others russian etc02:45
GeneralAntillesI think they're all being given in English.02:45
GeneralAntillesI'm sure somebody COULD give a talk in something else02:45
GeneralAntillesbut time is precious and English is by far the most commonly spoken.02:45
Tadthebuildermakes sense02:46
Tadthebuilderare there actually going to be any live streams from the summit?02:46
GeneralAntillesDunno02:46
GeneralAntillesI doubt it, honestly.02:46
Tadthebuilderyour supposed to know everything02:46
GeneralAntillesWiFi at these things is usually overloaded.02:46
GeneralAntillesI'd know more if I were there. :(02:46
TadthebuilderI have never asked you aquestion before without being given a solid and detailed answer02:47
Tadthebuilderyeah sorry to hear you couldnt go man02:47
GeneralAntillesAh, well, never bank on the US Government managing to do anything on time or in a reasonable fashion. ;)02:47
GeneralAntillesand I'm happy to help. ;)02:47
GeneralAntillesI've made it my business to have as broad a knowledge as possible about this platform and this community.02:48
Tadthebuilderunless the answer can be answered by a quick google search02:48
Tadthebuilderthat would explain it02:49
Tadthebuilderim decently well informed02:49
Tadthebuilderthats why i started coming in here02:49
Tadthebuilderto pick up on the things being conversed about02:49
* Tadthebuilder just choked temporarily on a cold hotdog...why i did not use the microwave i will never know02:49
GeneralAntillesWho the hell would pay $30 a month for TV in their car?02:50
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Tadthebuildersomeone with too much money?02:50
GeneralAntillesApparently AT&T is having money problems with the service, so not many of them either.02:51
Tadthebuilderits a bit pricy02:51
TadthebuilderI wont pay thirty bucks a month for home phone service02:51
Tadthebuilderso im thinking about getting magic jack02:51
Tadthebuilderthough it looks a bit sketch02:51
GeneralAntillesUse a cellphone?02:52
GeneralAntillesWho provides your internet?02:52
Tadthebuilderembarq02:53
Tadthebuilderwell thats dsl02:53
Tadthebuilderalso time warner offers cable02:53
TadthebuilderI dont have it set up02:53
GeneralAntillesTime Warner's not terrible.02:53
TadthebuilderI had a delay02:53
GeneralAntillesYou could get cable/phone through them.02:53
Tadthebuilderon closing on my house02:53
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Tadthebuildertrue02:54
Tadthebuilderhave you seen magic jack02:54
GeneralAntillesLot better than Comcast. ;)02:54
GeneralAntillesOnce or twice on TV02:54
GeneralAntillesSeems like you might be better off just signing up for a Gizmo account?02:54
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Tadthebuilderpossibley02:57
Tadthebuilderi have a gizmo account actually02:57
Tadthebuilderbut magic jack appears cheaper...02:57
Tadthebuilderand easier to hook up a real phone02:57
TadthebuilderI have a cell phone02:57
Tadthebuilderas does my fiance02:57
Tadthebuilderbut I moved and my parents are still paying that bill02:57
Tadthebuilderand they said02:57
Tadthebuilderthey will continue that indefinitly02:57
Tadthebuilder...im not going to complain or stop them02:58
Tadthebuilderi just need a local number02:58
TadthebuilderI could get a google number02:58
Tadthebuilderthat call forwarded...02:58
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jhforddoes the n810 have any NVRAM or other stuff not stored on /dev/mtd*02:59
GAN800Google Voice would work.02:59
GAN800jhford, no.02:59
TadthebuilderI need to look into how much that costs02:59
Tadthebuilderi had it while it was grandcentral03:00
Tadthebuilderand had a free back up ip phone03:00
Tadthebuilderdoing the old linked setup between it and gizmodo03:00
jhfordGAN800: do you know where the clock time is stored?03:00
ShadowJKheh, in the rtc?03:01
GAN800Incoming is free.03:01
Tadthebuilderwhich is all I would need03:01
Tadthebuilderawesome03:01
GAN800Outgoing is competitive with Skype and Gizmo.03:01
TadthebuilderI would not need to use it for out going though03:02
TadthebuilderI just want them to be able to call me at a local number03:02
Tadthebuilderand not pay longdistance03:02
Tadthebuilderalot of elderly people may need to call me and they dont like calling longdistance03:02
GAN800Hehe03:02
Tadthebuilderwhat are you laughing at?03:03
ShadowJKHe's not laughing at you, he's laughing with you03:04
Tadthebuilderinteresting03:04
GAN800Old people.03:04
Tadthebuilderheh03:04
Tadthebuilderwell I work at a church where the average age is probably 6503:04
Tadthebuildergranted I work with the children and youth at said church but I have to communicate often with the older individuals int he church03:05
Tadthebuilderhence03:05
Tadthebuilderneeding a local number03:05
Tadthebuilderthe youth all have cell phones...haha03:05
GAN800You need to hook them all up with N900s and VoIP03:05
GAN800The old people, that is. :D03:05
Tadthebuilderhaha03:06
Tadthebuilderlets just get them to use a computer03:06
Tadthebuilderand email first...03:06
GAN800Good luck!03:06
* GAN800 has been down that road.03:06
Tadthebuilderwe do have a 75 year old secretary that types the bulletin on a computer03:06
Tadthebuilderthough03:07
Tadthebuildershe sometimes litterally cuts and pastes clip art on to it03:07
GAN800Hehe03:07
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Tadthebuilderbut atleast she uses the computer some03:07
TadthebuilderI think recently she has learned about the clip art on the computer she can insert03:08
Tadthebuilderand knows how to do it03:08
Tadthebuildershe just prefers the other clipart for some reason03:08
Tadthebuilderits kinda funny03:08
Tadthebuilderand by kinda i mean really03:08
Tadthebuildershe calls me in sometimes to help her do things03:08
Tadthebuilderand I follow the XKCD flow chart since she is using the newest microsoft office and I have no idea how to use that03:09
* Tadthebuilder is too cheap to shell 300 dollars for a program that does little more than a free oss version03:09
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GAN800No kidding.03:11
GAN800I don't know why anybody would pay for Office.03:11
XisdibikBesides... offices? :D03:11
Tadthebuildermy seminary technically required it03:12
Tadthebuilderbut I used open office and they never knew03:12
GAN800As an individual it's almost impossible not to have access somewhere if you need it.03:12
Tadthebuilderits true03:12
Xisdibikas an individual i agree03:12
GAN800Lot of schools require it.03:12
GAN800My school requires Visual Studio. I use vim. . . .03:13
XisdibikI bet you do better work than your school ;)03:13
* GAN800 loves Maemo.03:15
GAN800Not many other platforms let you use XChat while cooking dinner.03:16
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XisdibikI hate to upset you but,   i cook and am on XChat all the time, under windows 7 :)03:17
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Tadthebuilderi would like some dinner03:17
TadthebuilderI ate a cold hot dog for dinner...03:17
* Tadthebuilder cannot wait til he is no longer living by himself03:17
SpeedEvilI use my thinkpad on top of the microwave all the time.03:18
XisdibikI havnt decided what im having for dinner yet.       Pulled Pork Sandwich,    Pasta,    Ham cooked with pineapple juices and pineapple slices on top.03:18
SpeedEvil(with the microwave on)03:18
SpeedEvilWhile cooking03:18
XisdibikI bet your thinkpad doesnt appreciate the radiation!03:18
SpeedEvilOddly - wifi works just fine03:19
Tadthebuilderis this barbeque pulled pork?03:19
GAN800Xisdibik, not on a device that fits in your pocket.03:19
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XisdibikTadthebuilder: yes03:19
Tadthebuildervinager or tomatoe based?03:20
Tadthebuilderhaha03:20
XisdibikGAN800: you have me there then.  but you hadnt specified03:20
XisdibikTadthebuilder: i dont know  lolz03:20
Tadthebuilderdont ask why im asking so many questions03:20
Tadthebuilderis it red03:20
Tadthebuilder?03:20
Tadthebuilderheh03:20
TadthebuilderI only like north carolina style barbeque03:20
Tadthebuilderthe base is vinegar03:20
GAN800Tadthebuilder, don't me you can't cook for yourself. :P03:20
TadthebuilderI cant03:21
TadthebuilderI just know what I like :)03:21
GAN800That's just sad.03:21
Tadthebuilderhaha03:21
TadthebuilderI can cook for myself a little03:21
Tadthebuilderbut not much03:21
Tadthebuilder:)03:21
Tadthebuilderall the cooking i know how to do it from watching good eats03:21
SpeedEvilIt's really not hard.03:21
Tadthebuilderbut I really dont have access to a kitchen at the moment03:21
TadthebuilderI have a microwave thats about it03:21
GAN800They have websites for that you know. :P03:21
TadthebuilderI eat mostly sandwiches03:21
SpeedEvilyou can cook perfectly fine with just a microwave03:22
GAN800Haha03:22
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GAN800It sucks, though.03:22
SpeedEvilEven one that doesn't do conventional mode.03:22
amrtrying to charge my n810 with a travel charger thing i bought03:22
Tadthebuilderim closing on a house in three weeks03:22
SpeedEvilWell...03:22
Tadthebuilderhopefully03:22
amr(not nokia official obv)03:22
Tadthebuilderis it not working amr?03:22
amrand it charges my 6210 navigator03:22
Tadthebuilderor were you just telling us that you were trying it?03:22
amrbut it doesnt seem to work :/03:22
SpeedEvilSpaghetti, sauces, rice, potatos, pot-roasts, stews, ...03:22
amrthe nokia screen will come on, then go off03:22
amrno loading bar or anything, just the logo03:23
Tadthebuildermight not be getting enough power, not sure though03:23
Tadthebuildersee my main problem is03:23
AnunakinO:-)03:23
TadthebuilderI was an RA at college03:23
Tadthebuilderwhich I just left03:23
amrhmmmm03:23
Tadthebuilderso I lived on a dorm my whole time there03:23
Tadthebuilderso I ate at the dining hall03:23
Tadthebuilderglorious dining hall03:23
Tadthebuilderon demand food03:23
amrcould someone look on their charger and see if the specs of this match up03:23
Tadthebuilderwhenver I wanted...03:23
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Tadthebuildermight not of been high quality03:24
amrdc 5v, 500mAh max03:24
Tadthebuilderbut it was there03:24
Tadthebuilderand conveneit03:24
Tadthebuilderim thinking that03:24
Tadthebuilderthat might charge the device slowly03:24
Tadthebuilderfor some reason03:24
Tadthebuilderim thinking 1500 mah03:25
Tadthebuilderbut i may be wrong03:25
amrhmmm03:25
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Tadthebuildergeneral: you still here?03:25
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amrthis is poo, i was hoping to have my tablet charged for lectures tomorrow03:26
GAN800amr, 500ma is low03:26
amrthought as much03:26
GAN800Stock charger ia close to 90003:26
Tadthebuilderwould it charge it slowly03:26
Tadthebuilderif the device was turned off?03:26
Tadthebuilder(similar to the trickle charge from usb)03:27
GAN800It'll charge, but slowly and only if you're not using it.03:27
amrwell it turns on when it gets plugged in03:27
amroh thats fine, its got a good 8 hours to charge03:27
GAN800Since it can overpower the stock charger.03:27
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amrthanks :)03:28
* timeless grumbles03:29
timelessthe gettext package in somewhere is broken03:29
Tadthebuilderwhy are you grumbling?03:29
Tadthebuilderits not polite...03:29
sp3000timeless: bug 4624 seems to mention both versions you're getting in that package03:30
timelessit's 2.30am03:31
sp3000but since there's a /scratchbox/tools/bin/gettext, you're probably hitting magic there03:32
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GAN800Tadthebuilder, timeless is one of the authorized grumblers. :P03:36
timelessi'm hungry and on a train somewhere in germany03:36
timelesswith flaky cell service03:36
timelesswe're stopped and i' getting/losing service03:37
timelessi still need a place to sleep tonight03:37
ShadowJKno food on the train?03:37
timelessno dining car03:37
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ShadowJKno trolley either? :-(03:38
timelessthere's a guy who sells food out of his room03:38
timelesshe has a speial title, not sure what03:38
timelessoh, he'll deliver03:39
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ShadowJKamr: charging with random chargers (and even with some weaker batches of the original chargers) seems to not be a good idea with N810, IF you've let it run empty03:44
amr:<03:45
ShadowJKas long as it's still running it seems to accept almost anything03:45
ShadowJKThough exactly 5.0V is not accepted03:45
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clmntchj003:55
timelessinz: ping03:59
amrnn04:02
timeless~/9/osso-xterm-0.14.mh27+0m5 $ grep -r domain src/04:04
timelesssrc/shortcuts.c:/*(void) bindtextdomain(PACKAGE, LOCALEDIR); */04:04
timelesssrc/main.c:  bindtextdomain ("osso-browser-ui", LOCALEDIR);04:04
timelesssrc/main.c:  textdomain ("osso-browser-ui");04:04
* timeless grumbles04:04
GeneralAntillesNice04:05
GeneralAntillesWasn't all of the osso stuff supposedly to be gone by now?04:05
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* timeless rotfl04:06
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timeless $ dpkg -l |grep osso|wc04:06
GeneralAntillesOK, OK. :P04:07
timelessELARGENUMBER04:07
* GeneralAntilles wonders how easy it'll be to put ctrl-l back into Maemo Browser.04:07
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Tadthebuildervery easy04:10
Tadthebuildertmo needs to crack down on spam bots04:12
GeneralAntillesGo volunteer to be a mod. :P04:12
GeneralAntillesMost of the mods are at the Summit right now.04:13
Tadthebuilderah that is true04:13
TadthebuilderI could take temporary mod powers04:13
Tadthebuilderexcept no one knows who I am..04:13
Tadthebuilderso that wont happen04:13
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TadthebuilderI only have like 50 posts at tmo04:13
Tadthebuildermany hours of reading04:13
Tadthebuilderand no real positive impact04:13
* Tadthebuilder just realized he is a selfish leech04:14
b-man16~seen lcuk04:14
infobotlcuk <i=lcuk@cpc3-oldh7-0-0-cust590.manc.cable.ntl.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 5h 17m 54s ago, saying: 'gnite folks'.04:14
Tadthebuilderlcuk04:14
Tadthebuilderis in amsterdam04:14
Tadthebuilderat the summit04:15
b-man16ah :P04:15
zerojayI would be too.. ugh.04:15
GeneralAntillesUgh indeed.04:15
* GeneralAntilles high fives zerojay!04:15
GeneralAntillesBrothers in fail!04:15
Tadthebuilderdid you have the same problem as the general?04:15
* b-man16 wishes he could attend04:15
GeneralAntillesNah, his was more valid. :P04:15
* Tadthebuilder wouldnt understand anything04:15
GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder,  you see the schedule?04:15
Tadthebuilderthough I would like to use an n900 for five minutes04:15
zerojayWell, part of it was actually whether I'd get my passport anyways.04:15
Tadthebuilderno I did not see the schedule04:16
Tadthebuilderfive minutes...and ill be satisfied for the rest of my life04:16
zerojayAnd then work pretty much asked me to stay for "important stuff" and.. uh.. it wasn't.04:16
ShadowJKctrl-l had a 25% success rate in diablo anyway04:16
GeneralAntillesCheck out some of the topic: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Schedule04:16
Tadthebuilderi need a rich friend04:16
Tadthebuilderand to talk him into buying one04:16
zerojayAnd I'm moving in less than a month so...04:16
zerojayJust too much shit at the same time.04:16
zerojayThe perfect shitstorm.04:16
* b-man16 has a rich friend xD04:16
Tadthebuilderah I see04:16
Tadthebuilderatleast you still have your dignity, and a pacman hat04:16
GeneralAntillesTadthebuilder, that sounds like something a drug addict might say. :P04:17
GeneralAntilles"Just one more hit. . . ."04:17
GeneralAntillesYeah, right.04:17
Tadthebuilderhah04:17
Tadthebuildera04:17
zerojayHeh.. yeah, sure do have the pacman hat.04:17
TadthebuilderI just realized im never goign to be able to afford one...04:17
Tadthebuilderso using one once should satisfy me04:17
zerojayPacman hats aren't that expensive.04:17
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zerojay:)04:17
Tadthebuildergrrr04:17
GeneralAntillesIt'll be under $400 in a year.04:17
GeneralAntillesMaybe sooner.04:17
b-man16wb Meiz_N81004:18
Firebird:/04:18
zerojayThere's pretty much no way I would have been able to get an N900 if I had to pay for it myself, so I understand.04:18
Tadthebuilderi doubt ill have four hundred dollars of disposable income within the next ten years...04:18
Tadthebuilder:)04:18
Tadthebuilderokay04:18
Tadthebuilderhopefully with in the next ten years04:18
TadthebuilderI make less than thirty grand a year04:18
Tadthebuilderwith thirty grand in student loans...04:18
Firebirdwell, looks like I'll be settling on a free phone from verizon04:18
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b-man16in ten years the N900 will cost $10.00 ;)04:18
GeneralAntillesFirebird?04:19
FirebirdGeneralAntilles, renew date is coming up04:19
Tadthebuilderid pay ten dollars for a n900 in ten years04:19
GeneralAntillesFirebird, hello, discounts?04:19
Tadthebuilderespecially if I can replace the battery with a forty dollar one04:19
Firebirdpssh, there's like more people than ever04:19
b-man16xD04:19
Firebirdespecially those, "I will donate graphics" people04:19
GeneralAntillesFirebird, how far down are you on the karma page?04:19
Firebird~24004:19
GeneralAntillesPssh04:19
GeneralAntillesNo worries at all.04:19
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GeneralAntillesPrevious codes have been 500-1000.04:20
zerojayFirebird: lol... those guys aren't getting anything, especially not after being here two weeks.04:20
Firebirdah04:20
GeneralAntillesFirebird, app_s_ in _Extras_ 'nuff said.04:20
Tadthebuilderthe lightning talks seem interesting04:20
Firebirdstill need a phone for now atleast, I got locked outside cause I forgot my keys and didn't have a phone :/04:20
b-man16lol04:20
zerojaySucks.04:20
Firebirddialcentral saved the day with free sms though04:21
Tadthebuilder24 dollar track phone04:21
* b-man16 has been in that situation04:21
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Interested in trying my wallpapers package when it's ready, before I put it into extras-devel/-testing?04:21
Tadthebuilderit would be awesome to have a n900 on a pay as you go track phone setup04:21
GeneralAntillesFirebird, need to move to a GSM network.04:21
b-man16in 14 degree weather xD04:21
Firebirdgood thing my wifi leaks through the walls04:21
GeneralAntilleszerojay, sure, autobuilder's still down anyway.04:21
b-man16(14 f)04:21
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Firebirdis anyone porting xmoto? (If not I am)04:21
zerojayFirebird: Go for it.04:22
GeneralAntillesToo bad they don't have PaYG data in the US.04:22
Firebirdshould be fun with accelerometers04:22
Tadthebuilderwhat is ben mansons handle?04:22
GeneralAntillesBen Manson?04:23
Tadthebuilderhe is giving a speech with lcuk04:23
Tadthebuilderone of those lightnin things04:24
GeneralAntillesOh, dunno.04:24
Tadthebuilderah okay04:24
GeneralAntillesNot on maemo.org04:24
TadthebuilderOh, how did lcuk get his n900?04:24
Tadthebuilderah okay I thought maybe thats how he kne lcuk04:24
FirebirdGeneralAntilles, you're not in Europe yet?04:24
GeneralAntillesFirebird, State Department screwed me over.04:24
GeneralAntillesPassport arrived 28 hours too late.04:25
GeneralAntillesSo, no.04:25
Firebirdoh04:25
b-man16i have a new idea for an app for the N900 :) it uses the FM transmitter and 3G functionality of the device to create a hands-free system through a car stereo :) - although i´m not shure if this function allrety exist :/04:25
Tadthebuilderinteresting04:26
Tadthebuilderidea04:26
TadthebuilderI like it04:26
Tadthebuilderbut04:26
b-man16:)04:26
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b-man16......but?04:26
Tadthebuilderhow would you connect the 3 g part to the car?04:26
Tadthebuilderlike04:26
Tadthebuilderi dont see the interface there04:26
sheepbatwouldn't it be easier through bluetooth?04:27
Tadthebuildernow alot of newer nicer cars have blue tooth setups04:27
Tadthebuilderbut04:27
microlitherr04:27
Tadthebuilderi dont see the 3g connection04:27
Tadthebuilderbut04:27
microlithhe reroutes the audio from the phone call out over the FM04:27
Tadthebuilderyou also did not explain thoroughly04:27
Tadthebuilderah04:27
TadthebuilderI see04:27
b-man16yup :)04:27
TadthebuilderI actually misunderstood04:27
Tadthebuilderthe statement04:27
Tadthebuilderits late04:27
TadthebuilderI need sleep04:27
Tadthebuilderbut I cant sleep04:28
b-man16xD04:28
Firebirddoesn't the FM transmitter transmit all sounds coming from alsa? (wouldn't that include the phone audio?)04:28
b-man16perhaps..04:28
b-man16hmm04:28
GeneralAntillesFirebird, think it's per-app.04:29
Firebirdah, the wonders of pulse audio :/04:29
Tadthebuilderthat would be pretty cool b-man04:30
Tadthebuilderespecially will all of the crazy laws being different with that all over the world04:30
Tadthebuilderin some states your not allowed to touch the phone while driving04:30
b-man16true xD04:30
Tadthebuildernow if you get me an n900 ill test your program04:31
b-man16i´ll see what i can do once i actuality get my N900 ;)04:31
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b-man16xD04:32
* Tadthebuilder has stopped callling them apps as of earlier this evening04:32
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b-man16i do have $1200 - but i´m saving that for something else ;)04:32
b-man16xDDDD04:32
GeneralAntillesi7!04:33
Tadthebuilderthe n910?04:33
FirebirdI could use a 30" LCD04:33
Tadthebuildertvs are a waist of money04:33
Tadthebuilderbut04:34
Tadthebuilderthat could be a computer monitor04:34
Firebirdeh, that N900 stand looks wobbly04:34
FirebirdTadthebuilder, of course its a monitor...04:34
TadthebuilderDONT CRITICIZE THE GREIL!04:34
Tadthebuilderjust kiding04:34
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* b-man16 wonders if he could overclock the N900´s A-8 cpu to 900mhz... or even 1ghz 8D04:35
GeneralAntillesYes, you probably could.04:35
GeneralAntillesIt would probably burn out in a matter of weeks, though.04:35
b-man16indeed xD04:35
Tadthebuilderyou could port a water cooling system04:35
Tadthebuilderand cary it everywhere04:36
Tadthebuilderyou might need a backpack04:36
b-man16*port* lol04:36
Tadthebuilderhaha04:36
Firebirdyou could do it in a large freezer04:36
b-man16submerge it in liquid hydrogen! 8D04:37
GeneralAntillesHeat isn't the biggest issue.04:37
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GeneralAntillesThe high voltage just burns 'em out.04:38
Tadthebuilderoh04:38
Tadthebuilderwell i feel dumb04:38
GeneralAntillesMobile stuff is weird. :\04:38
Tadthebuilderi took you too literally04:38
b-man16lol04:38
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Tadthebuilderany chance04:39
Tadthebuilderits underclocked like04:39
Tadthebuilderthe original release of the n800?04:39
GeneralAntillesUm, well.04:39
GeneralAntillesNo, not compared to the official TI specs.04:39
GeneralAntillesHowever, the OMAP3530 just got a boost up to 720MHz04:39
GeneralAntillesWhich is essentially the same SoC04:39
ShadowJKI don't think you can speak of them like that04:40
ShadowJKsurely it'd depend on manufacturing process improving and the ones that don't die in a few months at 720MHz getting sorted into a different category?04:40
GeneralAntillesWell, improvements should apply to all chips.04:41
GeneralAntillesBut I dunno how TI is sorting the OMAP3530s.04:41
Firebird<quote source="wikipedia">The N900 has a stereo microphone</quote> ... really?04:41
Tadthebuilderum04:42
Tadthebuilder...04:42
Tadthebuilderhow would a single microphone be stereo04:42
ShadowJKyeah so if it was intel or amd, some of the 600MHz CPUs might very well run at 900 fine, and some would die or not work :P04:42
Tadthebuilderwouldnt you need too04:42
GeneralAntillesAgain, mobile stuff is weird. ;)04:42
TadthebuilderI want a two gigahertz arm netbook04:42
Tadthebuilderrunnin windows 3.104:43
* b-man16 notices that GeneralAntilles has a twitter >.> 04:43
GeneralAntillesGive it a year.04:43
GeneralAntillesb-man16, I don't use it.04:43
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solarionyay! project submitted04:43
solarionnow I just have to make it suck less04:43
b-man16.....running Windows 3.1 xD04:43
Tadthebuilderhehe04:43
Tadthebuilderfirst operating system I used04:44
Tadthebuilderwhen I was 704:44
Tadthebuilder(im a youngun)04:44
TadthebuilderI also used dos of course04:44
Tadthebuildercause alot still had to be done in dos with 3.104:44
* b-man16 was 1 when Windows 3.1 came out... i think04:44
b-man16(born in late 1992)04:45
b-man16xD04:45
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b-man16g2g - getting late here - c ya latter ;)04:46
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ShadowJK"only supported on high-speed grade OMAP3530/25 devices."04:50
ShadowJKso it's different silicon :)04:50
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ShadowJKhm04:54
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ShadowJKFrom the product code scheme, it seems there are 5 revisions of 3530, in 3 different packages, 2 different temperature ranges, and the last number indicates whether it's certified for 720MHz or not04:57
ShadowJK5*3*2*2, lots of different chips for omap 3530 :)04:57
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GeneralAntillesInteresting05:04
ShadowJKhttp://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3530.html#pricingpackaging05:04
ShadowJKthe D after 3530 is Revision D, the next 3 letters indicate the package type, an A after that indicates extended temperature range, a 72 indicates 720MHz capable05:05
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ArtVanda1aeHi guys, are the os2008 apps compatbile with Maemo 5?05:41
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GAN800ArtVanda1ae, mostly.05:49
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zerojayGAN800: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3514/3994767226_9716c01e08.jpg06:26
zerojay:D06:26
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GeneralAntillesWoo06:31
GeneralAntillesMaking it a set was a good plan.06:31
zerojayYeah, I think so. :)06:32
zerojayLemme up it somewhere fast.06:32
GeneralAntillesDamn autobuilder. :(06:32
zerojayDoes it really have to be built to get into Extras?06:33
GeneralAntillesWell, you COULD dput it to non-free06:33
GeneralAntillesBut free has to go through the builder.06:34
GeneralAntillesWe need sources. ;)06:34
zerojayWell... I'm not sure there's any to give, honestly. lol06:35
zerojayThe deb was pretty much created by hand.06:35
zerojaySince I couldn't really use any .deb creation shit on my PC for a million reasons.06:36
zerojayAnd scratchbox suddenly stopped working even though I haven't touched it in weeks.06:36
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GeneralAntilleslol06:39
zerojayhttp://zerojay.com/misc/classic-gaming-wallpapers_1.1-1maemo0.deb if anyone's interested. :)06:40
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* GeneralAntilles loves his Quake terminal.06:43
zerojayHell yeah. amazing how useful it is. Surprised no one thought of it before.06:44
* GeneralAntilles goes with Donkey Kong Country.06:45
GeneralAntillesI don't even want to think about how many hours of that game I plaid.06:45
GeneralAntilless/plaid/played/06:45
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: I don't even want to think about how many hours of that game I played.06:45
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GeneralAntillesAh, that's beautific.06:47
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zerojayIt's really gorgeous on the N900 screen. Every little detail pops. You can still see a seam.. hopefully I can fix it tomorrow.06:48
GeneralAntillesLooks really awesome with parallax.06:49
zerojayI love how the color fades to blue at the top perfectly with the status bar.06:50
zerojayWhich wasn't planned.06:50
GeneralAntillesYeah, it looks planned.06:50
GeneralAntillesPerfect06:50
doc|homezerojay: how did you get one?06:50
zerojaydoc|home: Get one what?06:50
doc|homean n90006:50
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zerojaydoc|home: Two years of voluntarily giving my time to helping people, bug testing packages and setting up things for tablet owners. You?06:52
doc|homezerojay: was the attitude really necessary?06:52
zerojaydoc|home: There's no attitude in my words. Just telling you the truth.06:52
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, it's a long hard road. ;)06:53
zerojayIt didn't simply fall into my lap. Nokia sent me one to help get software ready for launch.06:53
zerojaydoc|home: And really, no offense intended.06:53
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: I'm not arguing that for a second. But asking how a person in Canada got one, possibly bought, in the hope that maybe I could learn how I could buy one doesn't seem like it deserves a response that seemed not very ... nice06:54
zerojaydoc|home: Wasn't bought. They're still not available to the public yet. If my answer was crass... sorry. I'm getting quite a few people asking me how I got mine daily. lol06:55
doc|homeok06:55
GeneralAntillesHaha06:56
* GeneralAntilles isn't.06:56
GeneralAntillesClearly they believe me more deserving than you. :P06:56
zerojayClearly. lol06:56
zerojayI got interogated by some French dude over IM yesterday over it.06:56
doc|homesadly, every fido/rogers rep I talk to says something along the lines of "never going to happen" when I ask about the n900 "06:56
doc|home:(06:57
zerojaydoc|home: I'm using mine on Rogers. Getting EDGE at best kind of sucks.06:57
doc|homezerojay: yep :/06:57
GeneralAntillesIndeed. :(06:57
* GeneralAntilles doesn't know what Nokia was thinking.06:57
zerojayThis French guy was all over me going "how the fuck did you get yours? Why don't I have mine, blah blah blah..."06:58
doc|homethey say it more because it's a high end phone, not because of the network06:58
zerojaySo I thought he preordered.06:58
zerojayAnd was still waiting.06:58
doc|homelike, the fido guy literally said "they're idiots"06:58
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zerojayBut NO... he had a huge sense of entitlement... "if you got one given to you, I should have one given to me too".06:58
doc|homeheh06:58
GeneralAntillesAh, ah "journalist", then? :P06:59
zerojayYeah... okay buddy. You hadn't even heard of Maemo before yesterday.06:59
zerojayGeneralAntilles: I wish I knew. He ended up sending me harassing IMs for the next 4 hours.06:59
zerojayPure comedy gold.06:59
GeneralAntillesfreejazz from Bugzilla is still my favorite.07:00
zerojayAnd just when he stopped for 10 minutes, I simply said "lol" once and he went back typing for another 2 hours.07:00
zerojayIt was wonderful. My n900 was like a box of goodies giving me a new line to smile and laugh about all day long.07:01
* zerojay starts looking at Aladdin and Final Fight.... hmm...07:01
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* GeneralAntilles chuckles reading old emails.07:02
GeneralAntillesAh, Andre cleaned it out. Too bad http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=368307:02
GeneralAntillesI think he's had 3 accounts closed on b.m.o now.07:03
GeneralAntillesAndre is more forgiving than I. ;)07:03
zerojayHahaha07:04
GeneralAntillesand the redacted replies: http://pastebin.com/d46300a6807:06
GeneralAntillesFun guy.07:06
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microlithI can only imagine he's a riot in person...07:08
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GeneralAntillesHe signed up for the 2008 Summit but never showed.07:10
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zerojayAre you fucking serious? lol07:17
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GeneralAntillesKarel did, too.07:18
GeneralAntillessjgadsby has some pictures of their nametags on Flickr.07:19
zerojayWhat happened to him anyways? Finally run off to Pandora?07:20
GeneralAntillesNo, he hates Pandora too.07:23
GeneralAntillesDunno where he ended up.07:23
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zerojayHe hates it too now? Wow... I remember that was his baby.07:24
GeneralAntillesYeah07:24
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zerojayOh wow.07:38
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zerojayGeneralAntilles: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2500/3994142751_56e437d684.jpg - Cave of Wonders from Aladdin.07:40
GeneralAntilleslol07:40
zerojayPoor fiferboy's getting more facetime in my previews than he's probably had in his life. ;)07:41
GeneralAntillesHa07:42
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user__any good way for lock and delock second panel on the statut bar ?07:56
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ArtVanda1aeHm... I wonder if Ubuntu's "integration" of Android into Linux will eventually make its way into Maemo. It definitely wouldn't hurt to have all those Android apps available to the platform.07:58
GeneralAntillesOooh, Big Lebowski in HD on Netflix.07:59
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Macerwow Stskeeps08:20
Maceryou weren't kidding with the network manager plague08:20
Macerall of them suck :)08:20
ArtVanda1aeyeah :(08:25
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sulxbleh...got HW related problem during installing nokia-binaries and now /var/lib/dpkg/status is full of garbage and dpkg --configure -a gives parse error...suggestions how to fix/reset things?09:01
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Stskeepsmorning09:14
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Stskeepsmorn wazd09:18
wazdStskeeps: heya09:18
wazdhey all09:18
Stskeepshow is stuff? amsterdam seems to have okay weather today09:20
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wazdStskeeps: looks like all good weather is in Amsterdam now :)09:25
wazdStskeeps: what's up with that devices slide, should I do it?09:26
Stskeepstoo late to change now sadly09:30
Stskeepsno laptop here09:30
wazdStskeeps: damn09:30
wazdStskeeps: send it to me - I'll edit :P09:31
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Stskeepshehe.. slides on a usb stick somewhere and no usb host09:32
Macerman does this touchbook os need some damn work :)09:32
MacerStskeeps: make a mer for a touchbook09:32
Macerheh09:32
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wazdStskeeps: damn, that suck :D09:33
Maceri'd order you one but by the time you get it the touchbook5 would be out09:33
Macerand the n98009:33
wazdStskeeps: I'm sure there is someone with a laptop there09:33
wazdStskeeps: you can kill him and steal it!09:33
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StskeepsMacer: told you, i think09:34
Corsacahaha I love the “return the phone to make it silent” stuff09:34
wazdCorsac: this idea is kinda 3 yo :)09:35
Corsacoh :(09:35
Macer?09:35
wazdCorsac: fitst it was an app for n9509:35
CorsacMacer: http://www.youtube.com/maemo5uiteam#p/u/0/3eZu3nku2uM09:35
wazdCorsac: well, first time I saw it in action09:35
Macerno flash on touchbook yet09:35
Macer:)09:35
CorsacMacer: but you should have a download stuff for youtube09:35
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MacerCorsac: yeah?09:37
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Corsacyeah09:37
wazdMacer: use Greasemonkey, Luke ;)09:37
Corsacdon't know how to use it though09:37
Corsacbut if you send me your TB I'll know09:38
wazdgreasemonkey + userscripts.org09:38
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tigertuse a bookmarklet09:42
tigertworks fine on n900 too09:42
tigertjavascript:if(document.location.href.match(/http:\/\/[a-zA-Z\.]*youtube\.com\/watch/)){document.location.href='http://www.youtube.com/get_video?fmt='+(isHDAvailable?'22':'18')+'&video_id='+swfArgs['video_id']+'&t='+swfArgs['t']}09:42
tigertbookmark that09:43
tigertand select the bookmark when on the youtube page09:43
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wazdhttp://my-symbian.com/other/grafika/n900_6.jpg <- hihihi09:54
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truanyone done any qt development on maemo5? is it qt4.5 or qt4.6 that is available in the sdk? I would like to work with the animation framework.09:57
adeus4.5.309:58
ensitru: qt is available09:58
truadeus: to bad :/09:58
adeusyou can compile 4.6 to it if you want09:58
Shapeshifter"HildonSetPasswordDialog is deprecated and should not be used in newly-written code." So, what should I do instead. I don't see how hildon_entry can obfuscate what one is typing...09:59
truof course, but it seems like nokia have patched the included qt to handle hildon. if I compile it myself will all that be included?09:59
adeusif think there's a 4.6 branch for maemo10:00
kimitaketru: not yet10:00
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kimitakenow I'm working for 4.6 of diablo10:00
truOk.10:01
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adeusI'm guessing it won't have any hildon stuff in it?10:02
truShould I consider using Qt on Maemo at all btw? I prefer Qt over GTK+, but I don't want to waste my time writing it with something that is not going to work fine.10:03
adeusQt works just fine10:03
adeusand the next Maemo is Qt10:03
truvery hard to find documentation for Qt on Maemo though, or rather, I couldn't find it.10:04
kimitakehow about http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4Hildon ?10:05
trualright. thanks10:06
kimitakeand http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon/Qt_Hildon_Widgets for Maemo 510:06
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trukimitake: and Qt4.6 will be available for maemo later? I really think I could do some really nice UI's for maemo with the animation framework.10:08
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kimitakeat least, there are some Hildon patch for 4.5 now, so I'm merging them to 4.6-stable based and I will release diablo pkg first10:10
kimitakeNokia guys work for fremantle10:10
truoh ok.10:11
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MyrttiStskeeps: poing?10:18
johnxhey Myrtti :)10:18
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rm_youhey Myrtti10:19
rm_youhey johnx10:19
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Shapeshifterif I want to save a password in my app, or other settings, where do I put them? gconf? And does someone know a nice tutorial for gconf on maemo? The API introduction alone isn't really enough.10:27
johnxI'd think a gconf is pretty much the same on maemo as on gnome10:28
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Myrttiohai johnx, rm_you10:32
Shapeshifterand I would just save the password in cleartext in gconf?10:34
Shapeshifterdo apps usually do that?10:34
tigertdepends10:35
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johnxShapeshifter: depends on the value of the password and whether you want to keep it from other people who have local access to the device.10:38
johnxthe next step up is using some type of "keychain" (like the gnome keychain) but I don't know if that's available on maemo10:38
johnxseems like a useful thing to port though..10:38
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HoxzerWondering if it is possible to make a phone call over bluetooth with N770 - N810 devices ?10:40
Shapeshifterjohnx: yeah I was thinking of that. but well, a phone usually is not shared with other people10:40
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jsmanriquehi!10:44
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ototoGood morning from Amsterdam. The event is about to begin in 15 mins. :)10:45
johnxototo: headed there now10:45
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Shapeshifternow I'm looking at http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Maemo:_Using_GConf and there's this example gconf_client_set_int(gconfClient, GCONF_DIR "mykey", value, NULL). Now, "mykey" is the path in the gconf tree? so, for my app, the path would need to be "/apps/myapp", so that it is in /apps, or does gconf do that by itself?10:46
aSIMULAtormorning10:47
trukimitake: this just hit the net: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/10/09/qt-on-the-n900/10:47
aSIMULAtorOMG HAI10:47
aSIMULAtorare we all ircing sitting in the N900 conference room? :P10:47
Macerhaha10:48
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jsmanriquesomething has changed from last year if Peter is wearing a jacket10:48
jsmanriquegood morning from Gijon (Asturias/Spain) :D10:49
Macerblah. going to go do stuff... night10:49
ototo:)10:49
wazdJust for the mote, I hate you all in Amsterdam :D10:49
wazds/mote/note/10:49
infobotwazd meant: Just for the note, I hate you all in Amsterdam :D10:49
ototoDon't please - someone will have to record and report all the stuff happening here for you :)10:50
wazdMy Jabber contacts are all offline - Summit time :)10:51
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wazdlet's gamble!10:53
wazdI bet skyp guy will announce that n900 will be the fist phone to support skype video call10:53
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mavhcno other phone does that yet? weird10:55
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wazdmavhc: skype video codec is really CPU hungry10:56
wazdmavhc: and I think the only phone with OMAP3 and front camera is n900 :)10:56
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ototowazd: Would be nice to hear that :)10:58
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ototoSomewhone has set up a webcam looking at the stage on teh first row :)10:59
jsmanriqueanyboyd using Qik for summit video streaming?10:59
StskeepsMyrtti: pong10:59
MyrttiStskeeps: you've met Pasi, right?10:59
Stskeepsyes, three times now and once in bar yesterday11:00
MyrttiStskeeps: would you mind being a fairy godfather and making sure lcuk meets him? I'll buy you a beer11:00
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StskeepsMyrtti: i havent seen lcuk yet but i assume he is here11:01
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mgedmin810"tablet is something you eat when you are sick" -- ari jaaksi11:16
ccookehuh, nobody else here at the summit?11:16
ccookeah, yes :-)11:16
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StsN810lo ccooke11:16
ccookeeat a NIT and you *will* be sick...11:16
Jucatoprobably too busy listening or tweeting or liveblogging :)11:16
ccookefair11:16
ototoAbout 400 nobodies ;)11:17
mgedmin810n in front of the n800 was a big deal internally -- corporate started to believe in maemo then11:17
mgedmin810n series = crown jewels of nokia11:17
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mgedmin810demoing a white 770 prototype from early 2005?11:20
StsN810yeah11:20
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onionlooks nice the white 770 model :)11:21
ccookeexcept without a battery cover11:21
onionwell, that11:21
ccookehmm. flash-based ui prototyping used for the n90011:22
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StsN810of course11:22
ototoIt's a common practice in Nokia for early stages of product development.11:23
ototoAFAIK at least :)11:23
StsN810always prototype before implementing11:23
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ccookeStsN810: of course. but it's not always done in flash11:24
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mgedmin810tracker scares ari11:28
ototoTracker was a nightmare at some point for Rover.11:28
ototoNot only him :)11:28
rm_youtracker?11:29
* rm_you is really out of the loop apparently11:29
mgedmin810the file indexing engine11:29
ccookeindexing11:29
rm_youoh11:29
rm_youyeah11:29
ccookefrom gnome11:29
rm_youi always killed that thing on n80011:29
rm_youthought it was called something different11:30
ototohttp://projects.gnome.org/tracker/11:30
mgedmin810that was metalayer-crawler11:30
rm_youyeah11:30
ccooken800 didn't use tracker11:30
mgedmin810tracker is a new thing11:30
rm_youright, that was it11:30
rm_youmetalayer-crawler scared me11:30
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rm_youcause it ate my CPU and power11:30
rm_youhrm11:30
ccookehuh. if I hold my n810 lower than my waist, it loses wifi11:30
Corsacis there a live coverage of the summit?11:30
rm_youlol11:31
ototowondering, do they have torrent trackers at nokia? :)11:31
JaffaMorning all11:31
rm_youmorning Jaffa11:31
ototomorning11:31
rmtccooke, I suggest you hold your n810 higher than your waist, then. :)11:31
rmtMorning all. :)11:31
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mgedmin810"how many songs do you have?"  "10 thousand"  "ok, i've been testing with 20"11:31
ccookermt: you're a genius!11:31
ototoxynopsis is posting something on qik11:32
* rm_you wonders about downloading/installing Maemo5 SDK on the summit wireless O_o11:32
ccookermt: try it. latency and speed seem good11:32
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ototorm_you: If you have an USB stick I can copy it to you :)11:32
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rm_youototo: i do11:33
mgedmin810grr ctrl+i = close tab in xchat, wtf?11:33
ccookemgedmin810: irssi.11:33
ototo3rd row, right side, right near the walkway11:33
otototall guy :)11:33
ccooke:-)11:33
mgedmin810how do I complete nicknames?11:33
ccookemgedmin810: in what?11:33
mgedmin810xchat11:34
ototorm_you: near the central walkway :)11:34
ccookeit ought to be tab, which *is* ctrl-i11:34
rm_youheh will deal with it in a bit :P11:34
mgedmin810ccooke only in xterm, apparently...11:34
zgoldJust discovered that non-english languages in the  SDK break things pretty badly11:35
ccookemgedmin810: yeah. You're basically screwed then :-/11:35
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* ccooke suggests a non-gui irs app11:36
ccookeirc11:36
crashanddieyo11:36
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crashanddiewho's at the summit here?11:36
ali12341o/11:36
Jaffacrashanddie: me11:36
* ototo is @ summit11:36
* zgold raises hand11:36
* mgedmin810 is11:36
* ccooke 11:36
* timsamoff tries to finish my presentation in the 2nd row. ;)11:36
crashanddieand being bored to death by ari11:36
crashanddie(jk)11:36
timsamoff:p11:36
ototo:)11:36
Corsacand no one has a webcam?11:37
zgold:)11:37
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crashanddieJaffa: where you at dawg?11:37
* ccooke is carefully at the back, where he won't spoil anyone's view11:37
crashanddieccooke: whereabouts? I'm on the right at the back11:37
ccookeditto.11:37
ototoThere's a webcam on the first row. Have no idea what it is used for though :)11:37
Jaffacrashanddie: about 10 rows back, on right nr. mixer desk11:37
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crashanddiestaring at the blue and black screen?11:37
mgedmin810there are two cameras and a n900 recording video in first row11:37
Corsacand no url?11:38
Corsac:)11:38
JaffaThere was talk of trying to stream to Qik off N90011:38
crashanddieanyone got a spare n810 battery? I'll buy it off you right this instand (if it hold its charge for more than 2 hours, like mine)11:38
ccookeJaffa: hope they did11:38
ccookecrashanddie: I nhave a charger :-)11:38
ccookeone moment11:38
crashanddiewell, I'll buy the battery if I can't put my hands on an n90011:38
crashanddieccooke: the battery's dead11:39
crashanddieccooke: charging doesn't help11:39
ccookeahh11:39
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crashanddiethanks though11:39
ccookeheh11:40
crashanddiebtw, lol at the manual charger11:40
crashanddieI should rig something like that on my bike11:40
crashanddiepedal and charge11:40
ccookethey admit to being surprised at the response to the n90011:40
ccookecrashanddie: it's a 4 aa battery one11:40
crashanddieccooke: oh, right11:40
rm_youi could stream to Qik from my Android device O_o11:41
crashanddieari is surprised at the quotes appearing on his slide :)11:41
rm_youwould that be sacreligious? :P11:41
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crashanddieAri's daughter, talking about the n900: "Daddy, is this the only thing you can do at work?"11:42
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crashanddietimsamoff: getting there?11:43
ccookeportait browsing soon11:44
crashanddie"First generation of the devices"11:44
mgedmin810xmas 200911:44
ccookes/soon/"soon"/11:44
infobotccooke meant: portait browsing "soon"11:44
* jsmanrique searching frade :D11:44
crashanddiebrowsing in the subway? With what connectivity?11:44
ototocurrently it's only phone and phonebook which are supporting portrait mode11:45
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mgedmin810ari had "multitouch" for 2 weeks11:45
mgedmin810broken screen required pressing one corner really hard to register presses elsewhere11:46
crashanddiemgedmin810: lmao11:46
Jucatohahah :)11:46
crashanddiemgedmin810: child lock11:46
ccookestrong implicagtion that maemo6 will have multitouch hw. n900 doesn't.11:46
zgold!!!!111:47
zgoldN900s for Summit participants11:47
ototoand that means it will be a capacitive touch screen11:47
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crashanddieAm I hearing this correctly?11:47
onionsweet11:47
mgedmin810ooh preproduction n900 free for all of us!11:47
crashanddiefree n900 for everyone in the audience11:47
Myrtti:-<11:47
ccookebloody hell11:47
mgedmin810only lent for 6 monnths11:47
ototoWOW!11:47
crashanddieGAN800_: I'll take care to have one delivered to you11:48
rm_youlol wow11:48
Jaffahell yeah11:48
crashanddieJaffa: hahaha :D11:48
* Myrtti pouts11:48
mgedmin810nokia's never done thnat before11:48
Myrttistupid weddings11:48
* Myrtti feels bitter11:48
crashanddiemgedmin810: actually, they did11:48
crashanddiemgedmin810: they gave n810's at MIT11:48
aSIMULAtorhehe eveyrone have a boner?11:49
mgedmin810preproduction devices?11:49
Robot101*crap* went to the wrong summit :(11:49
ototohard to think about summit now ;)11:49
Jucato6 months?11:49
crashanddiemgedmin810: no, not preprod, but just "freebies"11:49
mgedmin810first time they're handing out preprods11:50
crashanddiefunny thing is, hotel + flight, I paid more than the price of an n900 :D11:50
Jaffamgedmin810: *No-one*'s ever done that before11:50
ccookeit's a good move11:50
rm_youfunny thing is, hotel + flight, THEY paid more than the price of an n900 :D11:50
rm_youbut yes, excellent move11:51
wjtRobot101: srsly :(11:51
ccookerm_you: they like you :-)11:51
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rm_youprice of 300 devices compared to all of the developers loyalty + more apps at launch... yes11:51
etrunkoyay11:51
Myrttimeh11:51
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ccookerm_you: yes, but it takes confidence and an understanding of the people involved to do it11:52
crashanddie_London Exchange just said they were moving to LInux11:52
crashanddie_anyone else having wifi disconnections?11:52
StsN810nop11:52
ccookecrashanddie_: some11:52
ccookenot much11:53
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ccookemessage: "linux is everywhere in everything"11:53
rm_youwell it's been a couple years but it does seem they understand us by now :)11:53
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crashanddieJaffa: where's luck?11:53
crashanddies/luck/lcuk/11:54
infobotcrashanddie meant: Jaffa: where's lcuk?11:54
crashanddieJaffa: and simon?11:54
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keesjNext to me11:54
mgedmin810gps coords pls ;)11:54
StsN810ah11:54
crashanddiekeesj: which one is that?11:54
StsN810i think i see lcuk11:54
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keesjlcuk11:55
StsN810next to gcobb too?11:55
crashanddiekeesj: hold your hand up plz11:55
* rm_you looks around for lcuk11:55
keesjat 5 o clock11:55
mavhcbefore the next conference write a wifi triangulation/friend location sharing app11:55
rangeAnd now all please stand up and introduce yourself!11:55
rangeIs there a stream to that room? :)=11:56
rm_youmavhc: was working on that...11:56
mgedmin810jim zemlin loves the maemo snes emulator11:57
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Jaffacrashanddie: lcuk and lardman and gcobb and jeremiah and baloo next to me11:57
rm_youalmost had it done for copenhagen but then switched APIs <_<11:57
ccookehmm, wonder how we can keep the economy bad ;-)11:57
mgedmin810bad economy = good year for linux adoption11:57
mgedmin810the price is right11:58
mgedmin810Jaffa: left or right half? which row?11:58
Corsacrah11:58
rm_youdid this guy speak at OSiM?11:58
* timsamoff wonders what the percentage of actual active maemo.org people are here compared with press and others.11:58
mgedmin810I'm in row 2 near the center aisle11:58
Corsacthere were openmoko at debconf, now n900 at maemo summut11:58
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crashanddieJaffa: guessing there's no seat available close to you guys?11:58
Corsacand I'm not in either11:58
Corsac><11:58
StsN810corsac, no free devices at debconf afaik11:59
Jaffamgedmin810: About 10 rows from front on right11:59
mgedmin810jim complains that nobody gave him a n90011:59
crashanddieNews: "Nokia bribes Linux Foundation VP"11:59
Jaffamgedmin810: you two back on left?11:59
mgedmin810peter runs up and hands one11:59
timsamoffcrashanddie Sorry, I missed your context... I was typing typing... ;)11:59
crashanddietimsamoff: I was asking if you were getting somewhere?11:59
timsamoffYeah yeah. ;)12:00
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Jaffacrashanddie: a few mid-row in front12:02
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ototo_at_ms2009Using a car from BMW a s Linux terminal sounds funny ;)12:02
Jaffamgedmin810: I'm at your 4 o'clock12:02
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* timsamoff rocks around the clock.12:06
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rm_youanyone else think that slide was kind of confusing? >_>12:07
StsN810someone forgot the hw vendors for parts/cpus/gpus and periprials(sp) in that diagram before12:08
ccookenice example: guy from nokia submits a patch to improve battery life, supercomputer in paris benefits12:09
crashanddielol: Linux Foundation: "I don't need to convince this crowd that software should be free"12:09
ototo_at_ms2009HW might be free soon as well.12:09
crashanddiewell, mate, you might ;)12:09
mgedmin810prediction: sw = $0, hw = $0, service fees = $$$12:10
* timeless arrives @ams12:10
crashanddietimeless: get your ass here before lunch12:10
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ccooketimeless: quick! before your n900 kis given away!12:10
crashanddietimeless: you owe me a beer12:10
timelessok12:11
timelesswhere do i buy 3day tram passes?12:11
crashanddieinside the station IIRC12:11
mgedmin810jim shows ms ad with frankenpenguins12:11
mgedmin810'need for standards'12:11
ototo_at_ms2009timeless: central station or tourist information points12:12
ccooketimeless: you might not be able to use cards in the machines, but the ticket desk inn the station has one desk that can sell them12:12
crashanddie"One day you will have to give back -- not because you are nice, but because it too expensive to do otherwise."12:12
mgedmin810timeless: my hotel had them @ the reception, but this is probably not useful for you now12:12
* StsN810 doesn't agree with this guy12:12
StsN810yeah, he might as to12:12
ensiif doing a GUI for maemo with Qt are there are any special design contraints to be taken into account?12:12
StsN810ototo, no.. environment isnt for it yet12:12
StsN810welcome timeless12:12
crashanddieccooke: cards work. Just select "credit card" and insert visa/mastercard12:12
ensior can one just use standard Qt components and the framework takes care of proper layout?12:12
timelesswhich ticket desk12:12
ccookeStsN810: ditto, on t least a  few points12:13
timelessthanks stskeep12:13
timelesss12:13
ccookecrashanddie: you can't use credit cards for some things12:13
StsN810ccooke, on the other hand you need to be a bit delusional for his job12:13
ccookeyeah12:13
rm_youhrmrm, did finally get dropped from wifi for a min12:13
rm_youtimeless: lol finally12:13
ccookehe's broadly right, but very optimistic12:14
rm_youtimeless: you may only need one ticket...12:14
rm_youtimeless: we only bought the one ticket to our hotel, the rest is all walking (the city is pretty small, or the area we need to be in is, at least12:14
crashanddieccooke: lol... When you're in the UK, you can't use debit cards for some things, and here it's the opposite? Sod it.12:14
mgedmin810Jim pimps LSB12:14
StsN810its cos you are using android, rm_you12:14
ccookecrashanddie: and their debit cards are only maestro. no visa debit works12:14
rm_youStsN810: lol, i am on my laptop currently in ubuntu :P12:14
StsN810hehe12:14
mgedmin810walking from centraal station to westerpark = 30 mins?12:15
crashanddieccooke: good to know, my company might have some business here then :P12:15
timsamoffmgedmin810 more like 20.12:15
timelessok, is there a url for how to get there12:15
crashanddietimeless: maps.google.com12:15
mgedmin810timeless google maps has a map12:16
mgedmin810custom map for maemo summit12:16
mgedmin810with pois12:16
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crashanddieSo why would you want to protect your idea if it's not a patent?12:16
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ccookeooh, he *is* an optimist12:17
crashanddieEither you want to protect it and you file a patent, or you don't want to protect it, and you don't patent it12:17
rm_younot really protect your idea, but protect your idea from being protected against you12:17
ccooke"fit&finish: I think linux is very good at this, but we can always get better"12:17
rm_youbecause annoying people take your idea that you are trying to give away, and then protect it for themselves, from you :P12:17
StsN810ccooke, heck, even i have to be a bit delusional wrt mer ;)12:17
mgedmin810I thought he said *not* very  good12:17
crashanddierm_you: then you just patent it and don't enforce it12:18
rm_youcrashanddie: T_T12:18
glass__you publish it somewhere and make it clear on which date it was published12:18
mgedmin810he named fit&finish as his 3rd challenge12:18
ccookemgedmin810: I heard it as it *is* good. amyone else?12:18
crashanddieglass__: prior art doesn't protect from patent trolls, and lawyer fees will bring down a lot of people very quickly12:18
ccookeone of us must have misheard :-)12:18
rm_youthats essentially what that defense of patent thing he's talking about IS. it's just the official way of doing that12:18
Myrttiso the hell has frozen over couple of times today12:18
glass__crashanddie: nothing protects you from trolls12:18
rm_youand making it clear at the same time that you aren't going to be protecting a patent12:19
Myrttinokia gives out free phones, and obama wins the peace prize.12:19
Myrttilet me go fill my lottery ticket.12:19
crashanddieccooke: heard the same, he said "linux is pretty good at this"12:19
ototo:D12:19
ccookeright12:19
crashanddieor maybe it's just sound distortion in the back12:19
crashanddie:D12:19
* mgedmin810 has high standards, linux fails to meet them12:19
ccookehe's making good points about the valuje of upstream testing12:19
crashanddieccooke: the chick next to you looks pretty hawt, go for it12:19
StsN810reality distortion field in place12:19
mgedmin810pls no sexism12:20
crashanddieit's not sexism12:20
crashanddieshe's good looking, dasall12:20
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mgedmin810go read12:20
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timsamoffCo-Creation Day pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/iskosalminen/sets/72157622423097193/12:21
crashanddiehaha, ccooke just typed /clear so the girl wouldn't read my ranting :P12:21
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mgedmin810apple: free vs fabulous12:21
rm_youlol12:21
ccookecrashanddie: nope, you're still at risk12:21
mgedmin810jim: we can be both12:21
Myrtti*sigh*12:22
crashanddieccooke: don't think she'll map my nickname to my face...12:22
mgedmin810invites human interaction designers12:22
crashanddieccooke: crap... my nickname is written in bright orange on my name tag12:22
* rm_you thoroughly /agrees with this slide12:22
Myrttiplease don't be dicks12:22
ccookecrashanddie: quite12:22
rm_youMyrtti: this is why programmers / computer nerds stereotypically don't do well with the opposite gender >_>12:22
crashanddieJaffa: sounds like odz12:23
crashanddieJaffa: assimilate the designers into our community12:23
aSIMULAtorhi can i join your ecosystem12:23
aSIMULAtori can totally irc12:23
aSIMULAtori'm already doing it12:23
aSIMULAtorplease let me in your group pls pls12:23
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crashanddieaSIMULAtor: sorry?12:23
crashanddieaSIMULAtor: weren't you supposed to be at the summit?12:23
StsN810asim; hehe12:23
aSIMULAtori'm in the summit :P12:23
timsamoffaSIMULAtor :D12:24
aSIMULAtori'm commenting on his comment12:24
crashanddieaSIMULAtor: ah, ol12:24
aSIMULAtorabout being integrated into the community with the geek developers :P12:24
aSIMULAtorwe has to hold hands12:24
aSIMULAtorand be friends12:24
crashanddieaSIMULAtor: stick your hand up12:24
mgedmin810and sing12:24
aSIMULAtorlol look to the right side, 3rd row12:24
aSIMULAtoryou just stared at me i think12:24
crashanddiein the front?12:24
aSIMULAtori'm in back of you12:24
aSIMULAtoryeah i' in the front12:25
crashanddielolwut? I'm in the back of the room12:25
aSIMULAtoroh who just stared at me lol12:25
* timsamoff breaks.12:25
aSIMULAtoryz break time12:25
ototobreak for 15 mins now12:25
* mgedmin810 was trying to spot aSIM...12:25
mgedmin810grrr want tab completion12:26
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mgedmin81015 min break12:26
rm_youalright I suppose i could use that SDK now :P12:27
rm_youototo: you still around? :P12:27
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ototoyeah12:27
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ototositting in the 3rd row12:27
rm_yousitting in fourth row on the left12:27
tigertthis is like geeks playing with "physical reality" for the first time ;)12:27
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ototoI' right on the edge of the central passage12:28
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rm_youseeing whats on my flashdrive12:28
mavhc"where's the search button"12:28
ototo:)12:28
mavhcI keep saying then when I stop in real shops12:28
rm_youhow big is everything12:28
ototowell, less then 100M12:28
ototobut it's not everything12:29
ototono nokia specific binaries onboard - you have to apt-get them yourself ;)12:29
rm_youalright, deleted the season premier episode of Bones, have room now :P12:29
mgedmin810coffee access problematic12:29
mgedmin810lots of people per meter squared12:29
ototonow just find 2 guys sitting in the 3rd row12:29
rm_youlook left, and catch12:30
timelessaww12:30
timelessbut i wanted to see that12:30
rm_youtimeless: still have it on my laptop ;P no worries12:31
rm_youwell, i hope i do O_o12:31
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Shapeshiftermy app works but it feels a bit dodgy because the button animation stays on "pressed" while the function connected to the clicked signal is run. I also tried using the released signal instead, but it's the same. How can I accomplish that the button gets visually released while the rest happens in the background?12:33
timelessok12:33
* mgedmin810 is defeated by the packaging of a milky way bar12:33
timelesshelp!12:33
timelesswhere precisely do i go12:33
timelessand don't make me use the web12:34
mgedmin810timeless: have a map?12:34
timelessno12:34
mgedmin810what street are you on?12:34
timelessshould i buy one?12:34
timelessams central train station12:34
* mgedmin810 uses maemo mapper and downloads maps12:34
timelessi just bought a pass12:35
timelessand i have lugagar12:35
timelessuntil someone gibes me a  roo12:35
timelessno walking12:35
timelessextreemely frustrated and hungry12:35
mgedmin810timeless: looking for hotel then?12:36
mgedmin810ibis is right next to the station12:36
Shapeshiftertimeless: there's an awesome thai restaurant near the read light district, cheap as well.12:36
mgedmin810exit south, turn west12:36
Shapeshifteraww I want to go there now12:36
Shapeshifterbut I'm not in amsterdam :|12:36
aSIMULAtortimeless where are you :)12:37
timelessat the railway station12:37
timelessvvv wasting money on a map12:37
mgedmin810and where do you want to go?12:37
mgedmin810food, hotel, summit?12:38
timelessthe event12:38
mgedmin810it's by the westerpark12:38
timelessuhuh12:38
timelessby tram?12:38
mgedmin810I walked, sorry, dunno which bus to take12:38
mgedmin810openstreetmap has no bus stations12:39
timeless21\us12:40
mgedmin810westerpark is straight west, about 2km12:40
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aSIMULAtorhurry up and get here we're on break :P12:42
* mgedmin810 oom again12:42
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Shapeshifterso there is free wlan at the summit?12:43
mgedmin810yes12:43
mgedmin810oh maemo mapper, so hungry12:43
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* mgedmin810 hasn't noticed lcuk yet12:45
tigertdidint he miss his passport?12:46
SpeedEvilthat was GeneralAntilles12:46
tigertor was it someone else12:46
tigertah right, duh12:46
tigertbummer anyhow12:46
aSIMULAtorlcuk is here12:46
aSIMULAtorjust saw him outside12:47
SpeedEvilWell - his passport got missed for him.12:47
Meklcuk definately is here, we share a hotel room12:47
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ccookebreak over12:50
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ccookenow getting the nseries pov12:50
ototome managed to get an apple :)12:50
ototofruit one, not company12:51
ccookehmm, mer on iphone12:51
wazdanything hot?12:51
ccookethat would amuse12:51
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onionheh12:51
rm_youlol12:51
wazdToo lowres imo12:52
mgedmin810adoption curve: innovators, early adopters, early majority, late majority, laggards12:52
ccookeagreed12:52
mgedmin810coverage at coveritlive.com = good, I can see what I missed while I was concentrated on typing12:54
mgedmin810but fixed 320px width? wtf?12:55
ccookeer, what?12:55
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mgedmin810planet.maemo.org, late last night, blog post about live coverage12:55
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mgedmin810http://www.coveritlive.com/mobile.php?option=com_mobile&task=viewaltcast&altcast_code=b1272d4ae412:56
rm_youall these slides with charts are very.... interesting (read: abstract / confusing)12:56
rm_youmaybe it's just me12:56
mgedmin810whee, slides don't fit on screen12:56
mgedmin810text cut off12:56
ccookerm_you: dunno, can't read them from here12:56
StsN810this better get adjusted :P12:57
rm_youheh12:57
rm_youi don't think theres MUCH cut off... <_<12:57
* mgedmin810 has bad eyesight, therefore sits *near the stage*12:57
StsN810i DEMAND the i back in internet12:57
mgedmin810um, sts you are12:58
* ototo uses glasses to drive a car, left those in the car, sitting on the 3rd row :D12:58
JaffaStsN810: So much for the full Internet experience ;-)12:58
StsN810hehe12:58
rm_youyeah my glasses are pretty far away currently <_<12:58
rm_youlike, halfway around the globe12:58
StsN810n-ternet12:58
rm_youthus i sat in the third row :P12:59
mgedmin810talking about maemo 6 now12:59
mgedmin810"the fifth step"12:59
timelessok, i gave up, left my stuff and am  walking12:59
Corsacwas there any update about release date?13:00
otototimeless: run! :)13:00
ototonope, no updates13:00
timelessnot in this shoe13:00
jjardonseems that Qt will be offcially suppported in fremantle:  http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/10/09/qt-on-the-n900/13:00
zgoldDifference between 4th step and 5th step is 'mainstream'13:00
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mgedmin810'iconic user experience'13:01
mgedmin810users ought to go 'woooow'13:01
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ototoNokia is an Aikon if rou read it backwards ;)13:01
wazdSteve Jobs in da house?))13:01
ototoAikonik ;)13:01
jjardonsn´t it then maemo 6?13:02
mgedmin810integrated Internet services13:02
mgedmin810not sure what he means13:02
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mgedmin810true challenge: aesthetics13:02
wazdVDVsx: fuck! I've completely screwed up, I'm soo sorry(((13:03
ototo"widgets everywhere" :)13:03
VDVsxwazd, what ?13:03
VDVsxwhat did you did that time ? :P13:04
ototoreminds old java's "write once, run everywhere"....13:04
wazdVdvsx: I forgot to send you buttons((13:04
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Jaffa"Canvas-style UX"?13:04
VDVsxwazd, np :)13:04
mgedmin810ui: large pannable canvas, widgets everywhere (i.e. more than one app, iiuc)13:04
ccooke"multi-tasking simpple"13:04
rm_youis a2dp included this time? :P13:05
StsN810fixedinfremantle13:05
rm_youlol13:05
VDVsxfixedinInverna :P13:06
zgold*looks around* There are 5+ irssi windows within my field of view13:06
mavhczooming user interface?13:06
wazdEeek13:07
ccookezgold: and many more out of it :-)13:07
mgedmin810the talk is low on specifics, more about general ideas13:07
* rm_you is using xchat13:07
mgedmin81024/7 connectivity etc13:07
aSIMULAtoryoung world explorers etc13:07
aSIMULAtor*yawn*13:07
mgedmin810fresh look at user experience paradigms, etc13:07
ccookerm_you: well, we can't all be right :-)13:07
mgedmin810localization13:08
* rm_you could switch to irssi :P13:08
mgedmin810locally relevant services13:08
mgedmin810change the world13:08
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mgedmin810yes we can, together13:09
ccookemgedmin810: :-)13:09
zgoldIt would be fantastic if there was a second screen/projector with the irc channel13:09
StsN810save the cheerleader, save the world13:09
rm_youhey, maybe now that obama won the nobel peace prize, i can stop apologizing to people for being american? :P13:09
StsN810or something13:09
SpeedEvilAnd WTF.13:10
rm_youzgold: no, that would be SCARY13:10
SpeedEvilYou don't give it to a president in their first year until you work out they're not going to end up their term invading shit.13:10
tigertzgold: we did that in the early guadecs I think13:10
SafPlusPlusI have seen a presentation with a screen with IRC once... I didn't pay much attention to the presentation... so that was kinda bad.13:10
SpeedEvil(the peace prize)13:10
tigertbut yeah13:10
tigertit draws attention from the presentation13:10
tigertbut it could work in the hackroom wall13:10
mgedmin810yep, irc *distracts*13:10
glassthe semi-annual global warming prize13:11
rm_youlol13:11
SafPlusPlusYeah, very much so13:11
rm_you"grilling" the user experiences guy13:11
mgedmin810back to n900 and maemo 513:11
* rm_you gets out his barbeque tools13:11
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mgedmin810janne heikkinen13:12
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mgedmin810smells of lunch distract13:12
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rm_youanyone know what lunch *is*?13:13
* rm_you is strangely not very hungry yet13:13
mgedmin810lunch is food eaten in the  middle of the day13:13
mgedmin810get a dictionary13:13
xnt14~seen lcuk13:13
infobotlcuk <i=lcuk@cpc3-oldh7-0-0-cust590.manc.cable.ntl.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 14h 17m 9s ago, saying: 'gnite folks'.13:14
rm_youthanks mgedmin :P13:14
mgedmin810;)13:14
mgedmin810sharing plugins13:14
mgedmin810for things like uploading photos13:15
mgedmin810write support for your website13:15
rm_youso did they like, pay the facebook people to get an app ready? or are they just talking about m.facebook.com? >_>13:15
mgedmin810chat protocol: plugins13:15
rm_youcause the android facebook app just came out like this month13:15
mgedmin810browser plugins13:15
mgedmin810this talk about what developers can do13:15
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mgedmin810not about what is shipped13:16
mgedmin810'most powerful innovation platform yet'13:16
SafPlusPlusWhere is the lunch held, btw?13:16
mgedmin810I expect they'll tell us after the talk13:16
zgoldAny speculation on when/hjow they're giving out the devices?13:17
* mgedmin810 is very far from the exit, will end up @ end of queue...13:17
mgedmin810I expect at the end of the day13:17
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mgedmin810so we don't start playing during talks13:17
rm_youthe queue is going to be ridiculous13:17
mgedmin810400 ppl13:18
rm_you30013:18
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mgedmin810they extended the limit, I heard13:18
rm_youyeah but they said 300 devices13:18
rm_youso prolly only the original batch13:18
mgedmin810because nokian's won't be getting them13:18
mgedmin810and 20% of ppl here are nokians13:19
mgedmin810hm13:19
rm_youyeah and i guess like 100 people here already have them13:19
ccookeand some already have an n90013:19
rm_youthere were a LOT of hands up earlier when he asked13:19
* SafPlusPlus grins.13:19
SafPlusPlusIndeed.13:19
timelessok, found big sign13:20
timelessnow where?13:20
ccooketimeless: where are you?13:20
mgedmin810big sign which?13:20
rm_youtimeless: the big sign for what?13:20
timelessmaemolorg13:20
mgedmin810welcome/registration?13:20
rm_youyeah look for a bunch of streetsign looking signs on a pole13:20
rm_youthey are maemo signs13:20
mgedmin810go west, northwest, west, north13:21
rm_youthey pretty much all point the same way13:21
mgedmin810but you need a badge13:21
rm_yougo to registration and then out of that room and sort of leftish13:21
timelessah13:21
timelesscute13:21
rm_youthere is a map inside your badge13:21
mgedmin810yep13:21
rm_youso once you get that, head to the N900 room13:21
mgedmin810and timetable13:21
mgedmin810and wpa pwd13:22
ccookew13:22
ccookeoops13:22
timelessvery cute13:22
mgedmin810q1 2010 official qt for n90013:22
mgedmin810today: alpha version13:22
trugood stuff.13:23
etrunkosee the video on qt labs http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/10/09/qt-on-the-n900/13:23
JaffaBTW, N900 Flash player stills play sound if you're on the silent profile13:23
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mgedmin810probably feature?13:25
mgedmin810silent = no system sounds != mute13:25
zerojayDammit.13:25
mgedmin810does media player play sound in the silent profile?13:26
Jaffa"Maemo Extras" and "Maemo.org Extras Testing"13:26
StsN810havoc ensues13:27
* mgedmin810 attacked by sunlight coming through a crack13:27
Jaffamgedmin810: You're on a mission from God13:27
ototo:)13:27
* timsamoff is ready to see some flips down the center isle.13:28
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waz1looks like it's time for n800 reflash :)13:29
* Jaffa has just promted Hermes to extras-testing13:29
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* zerojay updates.13:29
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mgedmin810'ogg support' mentioned as an app that's available on day 113:30
mgedmin810and fbreader too13:30
ccookethat's a change13:30
mgedmin810also facebook widget + photo uploader13:30
zerojayNot available from Nokia.13:30
mgedmin810maemo extras I think13:31
waz1Omweather is available from day -36)13:31
zerojayYes.13:31
VDVsxtimeless, I'm here now :)13:31
rm_youheh13:31
mgedmin810maemo 6 device13:32
mgedmin810omap 3, open gl es, wvga resolution --- stay same13:32
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JaffaSounds like it'll run on N900 perhaps13:32
mgedmin810multitouch, capacitive13:32
ototogood13:32
ccooke"multitouch in capacitive displays" - sounds like they won't have to be capacitive13:33
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Jaffaccooke: s/in/on/13:33
* ototo is wondering, when multicore omap will be available13:33
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JaffaPlayReady DRM13:34
zerojayReading the scrollback... I feel like I've been kicked in the chest.13:34
StsN810interesting13:34
mgedmin810want to support mainstream content (for-pay), drm13:34
ccookezerojay: oh?13:34
Jaffatimeless: nice shades!13:34
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zerojayccooke: Because I *should* be there right now.13:35
mgedmin810xplatform frameworks: qt, nokia web runtime13:35
ccookezerojay: ah :-/13:35
Jaffazerojay: you're not?13:35
rm_youtimeless: lol you finally here?13:35
mgedmin810what's that?13:35
waz1zerojay, relax, imagine how I feel))13:35
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StsN810wb johnx13:36
waz1Zerojay: I should be there. Twice.)13:36
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Khertan_maesumHi guys !13:36
Jaffahi Khertan_maesum!13:36
zerojayJaffa: Work said "we need you here for something important" at the last second... and what really pisses me off is that there's NOTHING important to do. :/13:36
waz1Heya13:36
JaffaKhertan_maesum: Not seen you yet13:36
zerojayJaffa: And believe me, if I was there, you'd know right away. I'm very hard to miss.13:37
Khertan_maesumhehé i m near13:37
Jaffazerojay: bastards13:37
Khertan_maesumarrived a bit in late13:37
timelessarrived n900 room13:37
StsN810phew, schedules13:37
mgedmin810tech preview for maemo 6 ui: q4 200913:37
timelesswhere are people13:37
ccookeuui preview of harm today13:37
Khertan_maesumi arrived when they announce the loan device for participants :)13:37
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waz1Oooh, nice13:37
mgedmin810qt for maemo *6* sdk alpha: q1 201013:37
waz1Footage allowed?13:37
mgedmin810beta q213:38
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timelessjaffa: where are you?13:38
rm_youtimeless: all over13:38
Khertan_maesumouch the concept !13:38
Jaffatimeless: look right, two rows back13:38
mgedmin810ui concept sketch13:38
timelessoops13:38
timelesscopyright violation: zelda13:38
mgedmin810panning over a large virtual desktop (canvas)13:38
Jaffaleft13:39
JaffaletiMaemo 6 is liqbase....13:39
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Jaffaxxx13:39
rm_youroflcopter13:39
ccookeJaffa: quite a bit, yeah13:39
Khertan_maesumdoes in the game i see zelda ?13:39
waz1or palm pre :D13:39
jeremiahHarmattan in liqbase with Qt13:39
johnxhey. the x11 virtual desktop is back ;p13:39
ccooke(why isn't lcuk working for nokia yet?)13:39
Khertan_maesumon the sketch near the tetris clone ...13:39
ccooke:-)13:40
* Jaffa thought Harmattan 3Q1013:40
rm_youyeah srsly lcuk13:40
Khertan_maesumlol yes it s look like liqbase :)13:40
* rm_you wonders why lcuk isnt in channel13:40
mgedmin810I think he applied, now waits for nokia's response?13:40
jeremiahOh yeah, Nokia bought Dopplr, I forgot about that13:40
ccookeportrait&landscape13:40
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JaffaTech preview on gitorious?13:41
johnxthat concept art demands a theme13:41
mgedmin810portrait and landscape ui13:41
StsN810technical preview out on maemo.gitor13:41
mgedmin810hm13:41
johnxreally digging the sketxh style art13:41
Khertan_maesumhum ... why not13:41
jeremiah"Technical preview out today on maemo.gitorious.org"13:41
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truwill maemo 6 work on the n900 as well? or will it be a new hardware again?13:42
waz1Vlad told that everyone gon a n900 =)13:42
Jaffatru: H/w platform soounds similar13:42
ccooketru: sounds like it'll run13:42
rm_youdoubt they'll do new hardware that soon13:42
Khertan_maesummaemo six support omap313:42
rm_youit should work find13:42
waz1got13:42
* Jaffa is betting it'll be available13:42
johnxtru, no one knows. not even nokia13:42
Khertan_maesumso look like it could run on n90013:42
ccooketru: they said they're sticking to omap3, opengl and wvga13:42
jeremiahwaz1: Yeah, they are giving out 300 N900's for a six month loan13:42
Jucatoexcept for the multitouch stuff13:42
* timeless moves back13:42
StsN810there is always mer13:42
Khertan_maesumhéhé13:43
timelessjeremiah, can i leach power from you?13:43
* Jaffa == excited13:43
waz1French detected!!1113:43
Khertan_maesumwhere too ?13:43
Khertan_maesum -o13:43
Khertan_maesum:)13:44
timelessclap: it's over13:44
Khertan_maesumhaha13:44
mgedmin810ooh n900 handouts explained now?13:44
Khertan_maesumthe interesting parts :)13:44
* jeremiah starts r00ting timeless' N90013:44
waz1Now skype?13:44
johnxain't over to the fat lady sings13:44
mgedmin810300 != 400 . . .13:45
timelessthat's a slightly older flash13:45
VDVsxshould I 'apply' for a newer device ? :P13:45
timelessbut it has rotation support for the browsr13:45
jeremiahSuddenly got quiet here13:45
waz1I'm sure bout videocalls :)13:45
timelessaww13:45
mgedmin810'we should be fine' if nokian's and contractors stay away13:45
timelessmay not13:45
timelessdoes that mean may?13:46
Khertan_maesumlol13:46
timelessfingrish13:46
jeremiaheh?13:46
timelesshe meant must not13:46
zerojaytimeless:  I should be there with you so we could correct them in realtime.13:46
jeremiahI'm gonna fight tooth and claw for one of them - I don't have one.13:46
jeremiah:(13:46
timelessjeremiahh: turn it on13:46
jeremiahwhat?13:46
timelessopen browser13:46
mgedmin810return on april 3013:46
jeremiah"Nokia employeses and Nokia subcontractors may not participate"13:47
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timelesswho pays shipping?13:47
jeremiah>:|13:47
waz1What about dev program?13:47
johnxyay. washing machine!13:48
waz1Any news?13:48
Khertan_maesumoh ! mean get it today ?13:48
timelessthey'll be mobbed13:48
jeremiahI think you are chatting on the dev program13:48
mgedmin810no mention yet13:48
jeremiah*clapping*13:48
timelessthat mostly means local maps13:48
* timeless watches jeremiah search for the power key13:49
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timsamoffFree device time.13:49
mgedmin810hardest decision: lunch or device?13:49
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Jucatohahah device first! lunch can always wait :)13:50
Khertan_maesumgo go go :)13:50
Khertan_maesumwhat a jaffa look like ?13:51
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LoCusFI got ramzez modules for N900 ready, PM me if you want to try it?13:52
LoCusFs/ramzez/ramzswap13:52
waz1Haha, everyone is out for lunch)13:53
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javispedronaaaaaa na na na na naaaaaaaaa13:57
javispedromorning.13:57
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zerojayhttp://zerojay.com/misc/classic-gaming-wallpapers_1.1-1maemo0.deb if anyone's interested. Let me know what you think. :)13:58
javispedrohi zerojay13:58
zerojayhey.13:58
javispedrowas wondering13:59
javispedrodo you have the src pkg for that?13:59
zerojayqwerty gave me probably everything needed for it.. but since none of the deb package tools wanted to work for me and scratchbox is suddenly fucked, I just made the package manually.13:59
javispedroaps.13:59
zerojayhmm?14:00
javispedronp. gan asked me to do a web app where input=4 image files and output=src pkg14:00
javispedros/gan/GAN14:00
javispedroand I might have a bit of time tonight.14:00
cosmozerojay: are those for fremantle?14:00
zerojayYeah, that would be awesome. I'll help test it out for you if you'd like.14:00
zerojaycosmo: Yes.14:00
zerojaycosmo: You can also get them from n900wallpapers.com... but the package allows you to apply all four as a set instead of one at a time.14:01
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zerojayNext up, finishing off DKC's Jungle Hijinx, finishing off Aladdin's Cave of Wonders, starting work on stage 1 of Streets of Rage, stage 4 of Final Fight...14:03
javispedro:)14:03
rmtHmm.. anything like SideShow for Linux + Maemo?  I'm actually thinking along the lines of easily accessible mini-VNC windows for remote controls etc.14:03
javispedroI'd said lircd.14:03
javispedroerr...14:03
javispedrolcdd.14:03
zerojayAnd whatever else anyone would be interested in.14:03
cosmohm, the app manager doesn't install the deb. i'm not sure it should14:03
javispedrolcdproc or whatever is called.14:03
rmtSo I can have applications running on a remote system, but controllable on the device..14:04
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javispedrormt: LCDproc was designed for simpler devices though (Lcd screens with 4-8 buttons only)14:04
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rmtHmm.14:05
jospoortvlietso who are in the westergasfabriek and who can tell me what my chances are to get in if I just show up ;-)14:06
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jospoortvliet(was too late to apply)14:06
javispedroow, maesum started already?14:06
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* javispedro checks clock. uff.14:06
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javispedroah well, "step 5" will have capacitive screen. unsurprising.14:07
cosmozerojay: works, thanks!  you could add some c64 games to the pack also :-)14:10
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zerojaycosmo: Find me maps and I'll gladly do so.14:16
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* zerojay puts on his Zelda shirt and heads to work.14:19
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zerojayjospoortvliet: zero, as far as I've heard.14:20
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jospoortvlietzerojay: that sucks... I'm gonna try anyway, I think :D14:21
jospoortvlietIt's only a 45 min drive so...14:21
zerojayjospoortvliet: Needed to register to get the badge.. only badges get in.14:21
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zerojayBut I'm not there, so... that's just what I was told.14:22
jospoortvlietzerojay: I heard from somebody the main area is open. I can do without the talks, besides, I can find somebody to get me a badge :D14:22
SpeedEvilhttp://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM3914.html14:22
SpeedEviloops14:22
jospoortvlietzerojay:  tnx anyway14:22
zerojayHeh.. ok.14:23
wazdI'm standing in a line again14:26
wazdWAAAAAAIIIII!!14:26
Corsacgnagnagna14:27
rmtHmm.. so, Remote Buddy (for MacOS/X) is the closest I've found.. but this is basically what I'd like..14:27
rmtMaybe mini-applications with basic scripting support (eg. lua) .. define individual GUIs, and use AJAX (or whatever) calls to communicate with the server(s)..14:30
rmtThrow in some zeroconf stuff to have local services automatically detected, and it could really be something.14:30
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wazdDamn, I'm sooo pissed off14:31
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javispedroI'm pissed too. what a day :P ;)14:33
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wazdAnd another line14:44
kr1shnaka line?14:45
javispedrowaiting line.14:45
javispedropeople queue.14:45
javispedroetc.14:45
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* wazd cries14:45
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wazdAny sensations at the summit?)14:47
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kr1shnakwish I could have gone to the summit14:48
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kr1shnakfound out about it way too late though14:48
rmtI could've, if only I'd reserved a place. :-P14:48
rmtWould've even had free accommodation with my choice of friends and strangers.14:48
kr1shnakso is the N900 actually out yet?14:48
kr1shnaklike anywhere14:49
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kr1shnakI'm tempted to get one, even though my N800 didnt get much use14:49
wazdNo, it will be out on q3 2010 with Harmattan14:49
kr1shnakah right14:50
Stskeepswoo n90014:50
kr1shnakq3 2010? Really?14:50
kr1shnakdamn, thats ages14:50
wazdKiddin )14:50
kr1shnakheh14:50
rangeYeah, didn't you see that the preorder status changed again? :)14:50
kr1shnakI havent been tracking it that closely. I had a bad experience with customer support with my N80014:51
kr1shnakso it kind of soured me on Nokia14:51
trudo anyone know when the n900 is shipping yet?14:51
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Corsactru: for the moment the only news I saw is “end of october”14:53
truok.14:53
SpeedEvil201014:53
SpeedEvil(hopefully not)14:53
kr1shnakheh14:53
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kr1shnakoh check out mr N900 here14:53
wazd2012 muhaha)14:53
khertan_n900hi again :)14:53
kr1shnakhello14:53
wazdFfffuuuuu)14:54
kr1shnakI take it you are at maesum khertan_n900?14:54
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khertan_n900hum  where is fremantle extras devel14:54
khertan_n900can t reach it14:54
khertan_n900is it the sme thimgs than extras testing ?14:55
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wazd_n920_harmTake that, loosers :D14:55
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ccookeand connected via the n90015:05
ccookeand diablo's dropbear15:05
kr1shnakdid anyone here go to the Nokia developer day in London, a few weeks ago?15:06
crashanddie_n900hey15:06
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crashanddie_n900anyone got the url of the fremantle extras devel repo?15:09
hendryafter a fresh install of diablo, easier there an easier way of seeing the IP besides typing in `/sbin/ifconfig`?15:11
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ototo1lunch and devices were in the same area - not really a hard decision to make ;)15:13
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hendrycrashanddie_n900: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/15:14
hendryare n900 avail to buy in the UK now?15:14
kr1shnaknope15:15
kr1shnaklisted as a preorder for £499.00 on the nokia site15:15
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hendrycan i assume the maemo5 sdk has a better emulator than maemo4? i was to test webkit builds, though since i don't have the device ...15:16
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javispedroiPhonetake that, losers.15:19
javispedroiPhone:P MUAHAHA.15:19
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Ceron^ffs!15:24
Ceron^damn you all15:24
Ceron^who attended maemo summit15:24
Ceron^you all got your own n900 there :(15:24
Pavlovshoulda come!15:24
* range rings a bell15:25
Ceron^i was going to but did not get invite15:25
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timelessi didn't get one15:26
timelessand the people will have to return them15:26
aSIMULAtori didn't get one either :( :(15:26
Ceron^life is unfair!15:26
ototowhy so? contracting issues?15:26
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Corsactimeless: I guess they'll be offered to buy it?15:28
timelessno15:28
ccookethis keyboard is much nicer than the n81015:29
timelessthe hardware afaik isn't final15:29
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timelessyeah, contractors/employees aren't elligible15:29
timelessthey're supposed to get them from managers, not via a community portal15:29
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crashanddietimeless: hey man o/15:30
timelesshi,  where are yah?15:31
crashanddietimeless: you were sitting not far from me this morning... didn't know it was you15:31
timelessoops15:31
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crashanddieyou're the one with the fancy sunglasses :D15:32
timelessyep15:32
aSIMULAtorfancy sunglasses oooo :P15:32
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crashanddiei'll catch up with you at the break... i'm the limping guy wearing a suit15:33
StsN810dr house?15:33
timelessheh15:33
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crashanddiepopping pills too, forgot the cane though15:33
timelessbecause we need a bad ui we control :)15:33
Stskeepswhat closed ui..15:34
aSIMULAtorhey hey :P15:34
crashanddiei can't get the fremantle extras devel to work15:34
timelessnotes is closed, right?15:34
crashanddieasim: where you at girl?15:35
timelesscrashanddie: try red pill15:35
aSIMULAtorright next to timeless15:35
StsN810who needs notes when you have conboy15:35
timelessham was complaining about a signature or something15:35
Jaffare15:35
aSIMULAtorlook at everyone clutching their devices15:35
timelessshe's at the far right edge15:35
timeless4th  row from the front15:35
aSIMULAtornext to that linux foundation dude15:36
crashanddieasim: on a room level? we didn't manage to activate the chip inside timeless' brain yet15:36
aSIMULAtorhehe15:36
JaffaaSIMULAtor: nr timeless?15:36
crashanddienext to the no smoking sign?15:36
timelesstwo seats right of me15:36
JaffaaSIMULAtor: Were you at the bar with danielwilms last night?15:36
* Jaffa seees. Big laptop. Twitter15:37
timelessyes, a bit behind that15:37
timelessheh15:37
aSIMULAtorno i didn't go to the bar...i was with mox do u know him?15:37
aSIMULAtorhe just went home cause he's feeling sick15:37
aSIMULAtorwe had a really posh dinner that made him and another friend sick :/15:37
aSIMULAtori'm ok though15:37
aSIMULAtori have a steel gut15:37
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timelessare those mails NSFW ? :)15:38
aSIMULAtorhehehe IM NOT CHECKING WORK EMAIL HURRAH15:38
ccookehmm. getting used to the new layout already.15:38
aSIMULAtori got a lot to check though :/15:38
aSIMULAtorccooke: u like?15:38
ccookevery much15:38
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JaffaaSIMULAtor: OK. /me waves at the back of you head (4 rows behind, next to jamiebennet)15:38
* timeless syncs MfE15:38
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aSIMULAtori'm going to turn around15:39
aSIMULAtorhihi! :)15:39
JaffaX-Fade: the devel problems are also affect HAM updates15:39
Jaffa'lo :-)15:39
ccookeit's a hell of a lot faster tol type on than any system I've had skince the zaurus15:39
aSIMULAtorwe all should definitely hang out before this weekend ends15:39
Jaffadefinitely15:40
Jaffaan IRC get together with no verbal communication15:41
ccookeheh15:41
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aSIMULAtor:D15:43
keesji really wonder about a gplv3 v.s. drm statement15:45
StsN810no gplv3 in maemo15:45
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StsN810and it is perfectly possible to make a open drm device imho15:46
* Jaffa guesses DRM will just be a package which DRM-requiring sw will depend on15:46
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StsN810similar way you have locked down cell parts15:46
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timelesswe need to ship an insecure browser15:48
JaffaHmm, qwerty12 hasn't promoted Droid Fonts to extras-testig15:48
timelessplease keep that in mind now that you all have devices15:48
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rikshotwhats with the corrupt packages coming from the final SDK installer?15:49
timelessthose are trivially solvable15:50
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timelesshe could ask me15:50
* timsamoff is getting nervous. Ay ay ay.15:50
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ccooketimeless: why?15:50
jeremiahtimsamoff: Peter looks like he wants to ask you a question15:51
jeremiahheh15:51
timsamoff:p15:51
jeremiahHe's got a mic in his hand15:51
Jaffatimsamoff: You two rows in front of aSIMULAtor?15:52
timsamoffHe's going to break out in some freestyle rhymes in a minute. Yo.15:52
timsamoffJaffa: Yes.15:52
jeremiahtimsamoff: Yeah! You should start doing a beat box and he'll start throwin' down!15:53
timsamoffjeremiah: If he did, I would dance to it.15:53
jeremiahqole: Open schematics!15:53
jeremiahheh15:53
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* timsamoff bids over and out for a while.15:53
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Jaffa"Large outcry" about non-phone15:54
JaffaPfft.15:54
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Jaffa"Screw 'em," should be Ari's answer. And open source h/w wouldn't involve non-technical people from tmo.15:55
jeremiahtrue15:55
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* suihkulokki finds mafw-lastfm in extras-devel15:57
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suihkulokkiapart from the fact that it is a yet-another-allways-running-daemon, pretty cools stuff15:57
timelesshardware in volume is how nokia has decent prices15:58
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timelesscustomizing hardware would mushroom costs15:58
jeremiahjaffa!15:58
jeremiahthat's you!15:58
JaffaThat wasn't my point tho15:59
JaffaI was"'t talking about UIs at all15:59
aSIMULAtorok i believe you :)16:00
aSIMULAtor:D16:01
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jeremiahI'm going to the N800 :P16:02
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* tigert boots his N81016:26
tigertthis feels like a laptop :-o16:26
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fralsgod been stuck paper prototyping and doing user tests all day, completlty missed everything from the summit!16:31
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javispedroif you find a page with nice briefings, please tell :)16:33
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fralsreading the liveblog at http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.php?option=com_altcaster&task=viewaltcast&altcast_code=b1272d4ae4&width=800&height=600 atm, bit messy but does the trick16:34
javispedrooutdated.16:34
javispedroaws, wait.16:34
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javispedronm.16:34
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fralshad to allow a lot of hosts in my adblocker to load it properly thou :(16:35
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javispedrosame.16:36
PavlovX-Fade: hey, can you help me later push fennec b4 to maemo extras?16:38
javispedro*yawn*16:38
javispedronothing serious so far...16:38
Pavlov(and extras-testing, maybe?)16:38
tigertPavlov: you are the pavlov from gimp days?16:38
Pavlovyep16:38
Pavlov:)16:38
tigert:)16:38
Pavlovsup16:38
tigertsmall world16:38
Pavlovare you here in amsterdam?16:39
tigertunfortunately not this year:/16:39
* maswan waves from old #gimp days too :)16:39
Pavlovalas :(16:39
tigertsitting at my work desk in helsinki16:39
tigertmaswan: :)16:39
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hendryi don't understand the maemo5 SDK guide. there is no `af-sb-init.sh start` and after adding the Nokia apt line, what package do i need to install for the Nokia bins?16:40
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javispedrohendry: nokia-binaries and nokia-apps .16:40
tigertshould do an free-software-class-from-1996 reunion :)16:40
Pavlovha, yeah16:40
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hendryjavispedro: i did that, but i get http://static.natalian.org/2009-10-09/nokia-depends.txt16:42
javispedrohendry: run apt-get update, apt-get install maemo-sdk-debug, and apt-get -f install16:42
hendryjavispedro: Couldn't find package maemo-sdk-debug ?16:43
javispedroprefix everything with "fakeroot"16:43
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hendryjavispedro: oh are the packages installed in scratchbox??16:43
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javispedroyes... notice the prompts in the guide.16:44
hendryjavispedro: the process is a bit horrid let's be honest. i can't see the prompts in the guide.16:46
hendryjavispedro: though thanks for helping :)16:46
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javispedrohttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation16:46
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javispedrohendry^^^: if you can find a single command without the prompt, tell me.16:47
zgoldanybody else having a horrendous time actually using the email app without it  crahing?16:47
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fralsif you cant find af-sb-init make sure you installed nokia-binaries in the right target16:48
fralsx86/arm16:49
hendryjavispedro: couldn't the shell script alter sources.list and install the rest after prompting you for the API code?16:49
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crashanddieanyone fancy helping me install fremantle extras devel? I keep getting 404s16:49
* hendry looks in horror as the 100s of deb packages are downloaded. bloooatt16:49
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qwerty12crashanddie: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/install/extras-devel-fremantle.install16:49
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javispedrohendry: but then who is going to tell you that sbox is like a chroot? ;)16:49
javispedroactually, like two chroots.16:50
javispedro(or more if you have older sdks)16:50
hendryjavispedro: how does a chroot prevent you from scripting it up?16:50
javispedrohendry: what I mean is that now you know that sbox is a chroot16:50
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hendryjavispedro: i know what scratchbox is... ? it's a chroot from cross compiling AFAIK16:51
* mgedmin810 tired16:51
hendrys/from/for16:51
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mgedmin810howto make n900 crawl: install an app16:52
mgedmin810during installation the ui is not smooth16:52
javispedrohendry: in which case, don't mind.16:52
crashanddieqwerty: doesn't work16:53
ccookemgedmin810: just seen that myself16:53
ccookestill, it16:53
qwerty12It's the opposite for me16:53
mgedmin810apps: where's fbreader for fremantle?  where's openssh?16:53
ccookes smooth the rest of the time16:53
mgedmin810xchat would be nice too16:53
hendryok, now i need network16:53
javispedromgedmin810: aw. they already renice the dpkg process, I guess they should've iorenice'd it too.16:53
hendryhow do i get network running after `af-sb-init.sh start16:54
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rikshothildon-desktop[7446]: GLIB WARNING ** ClutterX11 - Failed to get XImage of pixmap: 600055, removing <- whats with this?16:54
mgedmin810facebook applet: if network is flaky and it can't validate, forgets your password16:54
ccookemgedmin810: I grabbed the dropbear client from diablo16:54
rikshotno images are showing in the window when I open up applications16:54
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mgedmin810sync contacts/calendar via bt from nokia series 40 phone: utter and instant fail, no diagnostics16:55
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crashanddieqwerty12: that .install doesn't work. "No hash entry in release file"16:55
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qwerty12crashanddie: extras-devel is fucked-up then. *shrug*16:56
crashanddiehmm damn16:56
qwerty12Let me see if it updates here16:56
qwerty12Nope16:57
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crashanddieihmm, i'll have to slap dneary then16:57
hendryare there any webkit fremantle builds i can play with?16:57
qwerty12hendry: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/w/webkit/16:58
qwerty12(Uploaded by Bundyo)16:58
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timelessok, I'm gone, see people tomorrow afternoon16:58
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qwerty12Oh, if any of you see Bundyo, please tell him that I expect money from him17:00
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Jaffaqwerty12: you need to promote Droid Fonts to extras-testing17:00
* timsamoff phews.17:00
qwerty12Jaffa: maemo-optify refuses to touch it and I've been busy with other stuff to optify it manually17:01
qwerty12Blame Bundyo for the latest thing keeping me busy17:01
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Jaffaqwerty12: Post to -devlopers/m-vo if maemo-oprify's being crap17:02
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JaffaThere's a session this weekend about /opt so if you send me details, I'll raise it17:02
mgedmin810email client kinda rules17:03
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mgedmin810japanese spam looks very pretty17:03
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javispedrohehe17:03
qwerty12Jaffa: Not sure if it's maemo-optify's fault. From what I can see from its README, at least, it appears to be working correctly (expects files beginning with package's name (ttf-droid) but finds other named files instead (DroidSomething.ttf))17:04
Jaffaqwerty12: Hmm17:05
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qwerty12I'll bring myself to read the CDBS documentation sometime, or just replace the rules file17:06
javispedrocdbs! bring in the bibles!17:06
hendryso i can't emulate armel binaries? `[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > af-sb-init.sh start` does not work by X86 does17:06
javispedrohendry: known. according to nokia "armel is only for building".17:07
qwerty12I'd rather have a multitude of VDs rather than use CDBS.17:07
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qwerty12*instead of using17:07
hendryqwerty12: i want to try webkit builds http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/w/webkit/ ... but there are no X86 builds right?17:08
qwerty12Nope17:08
javispedroqwerty12: to part packages I've found using cdbs, it was usually easier to repackage than to try to fix them...17:08
javispedros/part/port17:08
hendryjavispedro: that's awful :(17:08
hendrycdbs is god awful too17:08
qwerty12hendry: Not for lack of trying; the X86 builder can't handle it...17:08
qwerty12javispedro: same17:08
Mekthe problem with that mainly is that maemo uses horribly old versions of lots of debian package tools...17:08
javispedroyes.17:08
hendryqwerty12: so i need to buy a N900 :/17:09
* javispedro remembers he needs to file dh_gconf bug someday.17:09
tor2_cdbs works reasonably well for non-complex stuff. When I port stuff I can mostly get away with a rules file with 3 or 4 include lines, and some simple .install files.17:09
javispedroqwerty12: does webkit x86 buid with fremantle's gcc version?17:09
qwerty12javispedro: No idea, Bundyo does the building... But the WebKit ARMEL doesn't build with Fremantle's gcc17:10
javispedrohow cool.17:10
javispedroand to think I once tried to build webkit with palm's arm compiler...... thank god I stopped trying and kept my sanity.17:10
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qwerty12In retrospect, his hacking of the source to make it build for Diablo may have something to do with that...17:11
mgedmin810no way to select multiple msgs?17:11
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qwerty12hendry: It's worth it :p17:11
qwerty12Need to finish off the packaging on Bundyo's Tear before I can try WebKit using it on an N900, myself...17:12
javispedrothis sudden craze for n900 webkit is because you finally found microb is still slow? :)17:13
* qwerty12 grins with a self-satisfaction knowing he has never pressed 'c' in dh_make 17:13
mgedmin810bug with imap folders: I see a list of msgs, can't open them17:14
javispedroas in --copyright? :P17:14
qwerty12javispedro: Err, yeah, I mean 'b'... Shows how much I use that option :p17:15
mgedmin810hm,  works now17:15
javispedroqwerty12: hehe17:15
mgedmin810nope, msg not available on server17:15
qwerty12javispedro: I like Tear, still use it on an N810, even. Curious to see how it works on an N900 :)17:15
mgedmin810blaming packet loss17:16
mgedmin810works now, really17:16
javispedroblame magic.17:17
qwerty12javispedro: put your voodoo doll away17:18
javispedroyou got me.17:18
* javispedro hides n900 voodoo doll.17:18
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javispedroah, sts must have done first mer talk by now.17:20
jeremiahjavispedro: Yeah, that one is over17:20
javispedroknow if there's anything planned for on-demand video?17:21
mgedmin810srsly, modest confuses tapping and panning17:21
javispedroi mean, was it recorded?17:21
mgedmin810custom control?17:21
tor2_Hmm, Maemo to be run on Zoom2, to be done by TI (quim gil twitter)17:21
javispedrotor2_, a TI employee was on this channel yesterday for that reason.17:21
mgedmin810am I releasing too quickly?17:22
tor2_Ah, I wasn't in yesterday. Maybe I'll check the archives. Interesting in any case.17:22
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Jaffator2_: Interesting17:22
tor2_If Zoom2 can do it then possibly my poor Beagle can too17:23
javispedrotor2_, "maemo on beagle" project already exists.17:23
javispedrobeagleboard, of course.17:23
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tor2_javispedro: Is taht still alive? I thought it was superseded by Mer on beagle.. but then I could be wrong.17:24
Jaffator2_: Nokians still interested in it, dunno about anyone else17:24
tor2_IC17:24
JaffaRISC OS on beagle too17:24
javispedroi don't know the specifics, but that was a Nokia project.17:24
qwerty12Jaffa: lol17:25
mgedmin810ah, there is a way to delete multiple apps17:25
mgedmin810awesome17:26
* tor2_ only gets the timeout whale when refreshing twitter for #maesum17:26
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ccookeinteresting. the map has got me in the right building17:30
jedlhlThis is gunna sound a littl n00b-ish & I am tired LOL17:32
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jedlhlBut  does anyone know of any work being done to port maemo to dell axim x50/1v or is maemo purely arm focused?17:32
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t_s_oi dont think there is much work to port maemo anywhere...17:32
tor2_jedlhl: Axim is arm too, but I haven't heard about any maemo-on-axim project.17:33
jedlhlits intel xscale (which i guess ias arm)17:33
tor2_xscale is arm.17:33
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jedlhlis there alit of devices maemo is centred around mostly?17:34
jedlhl'list'17:35
jeremiahMaemo is centered on Nokia's N770, N800, N810 and N90017:35
jeremiahMer is 'Maemo REloaded'17:35
tor2_jedlhl: Maemo5 needs some heavy-duty 3D support (opengl etc.) and, just possibly, also newer Arm versions (e.g. cortex A8). Which the x50 won't have.17:35
StskeepsGLES for omap2 will be in few weeks from TI17:35
tor2_So, Mer on Axim is a better possibility, presumably.17:35
jedlhloh i see never heard of MER, thanks17:36
tor2_Stskeeps: That's good news for my N800 :-)17:36
jedlhlim hop gto use the axim but ive found nothing so far some im startging to resign myself to the n900, i really dont want to spend cash but i am in neend of a mobile anyway17:37
Stskeepsi am just happy my roadmap holds up17:37
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tor2_jedlhl: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer IIRC17:37
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tor2_Stskeeps: You just did a talk at the summit, as I understand?17:38
Stskeepsyes17:38
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tor2_Went well? Lots of folks interested in Mer, I presume?17:38
mgedmin810shame about it taking forever17:38
Stskeepsfull room17:38
tor2_:-)17:38
Stskeepsnot difficult17:39
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jedlhl@tor2: thanks i hang about MER to see if there's any interest brewing there, else i'll prolly be back here discussing my n800/90017:40
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t_s_oStskeeps: so your saying one could potentially get maemo5 eyecandy going on N8x0?17:49
Stskeepsnot potentially, for sure17:50
luke-jr_Stskeeps: is GLES really from TI?17:51
luke-jr_I read something the other day suggesting the chipset was in fact from an outside company17:51
luke-jr_just licensed by TI17:51
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tor2_luke-jr_: It's the driver/software that's currently missing for omap2, which is what TI will make available (as I understand it)17:52
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luke-jr_tor2_: I understand that17:53
Ceron^http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muCPjK4nGY417:53
tor2_luke-jr_: The PowerVR chipset is from imgtec.17:54
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coldbootDoes anyone know how to get ncurses for python installed on the Nokia n810?17:58
coldbootThis page says "curses is deprecated": http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/pymaemo_tutorial/python_maemo_howto.html17:58
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coldbootWhy does /proc/$PID/io not exist on the Nokia n810?18:01
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lizardocoldboot: why do you need ncurses in python, just in case? :)18:03
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lizardocoldboot: ncurses support was disabled on PyMaemo until Maemo 4.x , for size restrictions18:04
lizardocoldboot: on Fremantle it is enabled again18:04
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ShadowJKcoldboot, io? never heard of it before, must be a very new feature :)18:13
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Sargun_screenWhat is this PyMaemo thing?18:17
JaffaSargun_screen: Python port & bindings for Maemo18:18
Jaffajeremiah: I've got a URL for you from timeless18:18
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lizardoSargun_screen: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/18:19
rob-boAnyone knows how to compile a Qt4 app for Maemo?18:19
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rob-boi have it running under debian i38618:19
rob-boBut now have to build it for arm18:19
rob-boThere's no qt4-make in scratchbox18:20
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rob-boHmm18:21
rob-boqmake18:21
Sargun_screenJaffa: so, that one could write a Python program wfor MAemo?18:21
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tor2_Sargun_screen: Many popular Maemo graphical apps are written in Python.18:22
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* Sargun_screen has abandoned his N810 since it was too slow, and the hardware was crappy. I'm going to upgrade to the new, stronger, manlier n900!18:24
Sargun_screenSo, I haven't ran Maemo in months.18:24
qwerty12PyMaemo has been around for years...18:24
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Sargun_screenI wish there was a CDMA/EV-DO/WiMAX Nokia device.18:24
Sargun_screenerm, nokia maemo.18:24
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* luke-jr_ wonders if it's legal to run your own WiMAX AP18:27
Sargun_screenluke-jr_: Why not?18:28
luke-jr_Sargun_screen: FCC?18:28
ShadowJKluke-jr_, on the ISM band, sure18:28
Sargun_screenJust make sureyour powerr levels are reasonable, and on the right bands.18:28
ShadowJKright.18:28
Sargun_screenYou obviously can't run a 500 Watt AP on GSM bands.18:29
Sargun_screenThey might nuke you from orbit.18:29
ShadowJKOr even 1 Watt18:29
Sargun_screenWhich would be bad.18:29
Sargun_screenShadowJK: On GSM bands? or unlicensed?18:29
ShadowJKon gsm bands18:29
Sargun_screenYou could probably get away with ~5 watts on 2.518:29
Sargun_screenerm, 2.418:29
luke-jr_Sargun_screen: I think most people would disagree with my being nuked as bad18:29
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ShadowJKprobably18:30
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Sargun_screenluke-jr_: Don't worry, you won't feel a thing.18:30
* ShadowJK wonders how much power you can put out as CW in some of the lower HAM bands these days18:30
luke-jr_ShadowJK: as long as you don't melt the CHEESE18:30
tor2_5 watts is quite a lot. You may not get away with it. IIRC 20dBM or lower will leave you out of any problems (that's not very much)18:30
Sargun_screenActually, considering how fast a nuclear asplosion is, depening on how close to it you are, it wont hurt.18:30
coldbootlizardo: I wrote a Perl script to filter the output from iotop, but iotop needs curses for Python.18:30
Sargun_screentor2_: (I say this because I've gotten away with it)18:31
coldbootShadowJK: It's at least as old as hard drives, in this context. ;)18:31
luke-jr_Sargun_screen: you've gotten away with a nuclear explosion?18:31
coldbootBut seriously, why is the /proc/$PID/io file missing? Anyone have any idea?18:31
tor2_Heh, no inspector in your area :-) (you know, those guys in the vans full of antennas.. I had a visit once.)18:31
Sargun_screenluke-jr_: No, but that'd be damn cool.18:31
ShadowJKhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band18:31
luke-jr_coldboot: it's a relatively new feature, and Maemo uses a relatively old Linux18:32
coldbootluke-jr_: ah ok18:32
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lizardocoldboot: are you using Fremantle ?18:32
lizardoAKA Maemo 518:32
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Guest36234hi all18:33
Sargun_screen No, Maemo 5 is actually using you.18:33
Sargun_screenMaemo 5 assimilates its users.18:33
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ccookejoin us18:33
luke-jr_so true18:33
coldbootlizardo: No, Diablo.18:33
coldbootlizardo: I'm on a n810.18:33
mtcis the summit being streamed (audio/video) ?18:34
Sargun_screenccooke: I will, once my N900 ships.18:34
lizardocoldboot: well, I'm sorry to tell you that indeed Python on Diablo does not have ncurses support :(18:34
* Sargun_screen wonders what Nokia is doing.18:34
Sargun_screenIS it here yet? No.18:34
coldbootlizardo: It seems like Maemo really doesn't want me to measure IO...18:34
lizardocoldboot: doesn't iotop have a "non-interactive" mode that doesn't require ncurses18:34
lizardocoldboot: because ncurses is more a GUI thing AFAIK18:34
coldbootlizardo: It won't run, compile or install without it.18:35
Guest36234i have openmoko freerunner neo. I want to install mer on it. I couldnt find image file at http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.15 and i downloaded somewhere else. but It doesnt work. Can anyone help me please? I really want to use mer...18:35
coldbootlizardo: It does, but I'd have to prune the code.18:35
JosefAssaderm. Fremantle does have ncurses, no? /me likes his temrinal apps18:35
coldbootlizardo: I'm guessing I can find some equivalent of /proc/$PID/io in the meantime.18:35
lizardocoldboot: isn't iotop in Python (I might be thinking on another tool)18:35
lizardo?18:35
coldbootlizardo: I just need to find how much writing/reading is done to a volume for a certain program.18:35
coldbootlizardo: It is written in Python, but it needs curses to execute.18:35
coldbootlizardo: curses for Python, that is.18:36
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Guest36234coldboot can you please help me also?18:36
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Guest36234?18:37
Guest36234can anyone help me?18:38
lizardocoldboot: this page might help you: http://maemo.org/development/tools/diablo/18:38
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lizardocoldboot: specially: http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/diablo/sysstat/18:39
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Guest36234lizardo i dont have maemo(mer) installed on my freerunner...18:40
qwerty12Guest36234: #mer . Knock yourself out.18:40
Guest36234ok18:40
Guest36234thanks18:40
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mgedmin810200 megs of swap used, slowdown barely noticeable18:41
mgedmin810nokia guys did a great job with the n90018:41
coldbootlizardo: Thanks18:41
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user_was kate's presentation recorded?18:45
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jeremiahuser_: Yeah.18:51
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jeremiahI'm not sure where it is, but I am certain it was recorded.18:52
lopzhi ;)18:52
jeremiahI think nearly everything here is being recorded.18:52
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jeremiahCold here in the N800 rooms18:54
jeremiahor room rather18:54
coldbootlizardo: So I've got the amount of blocks written with iostat, do you know how to find out the size per block?18:54
jeremiahGoing to work on my presentation in the hangout lounge.18:54
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lizardocoldboot: well, I never used this tool, I just remembered of the site :)18:55
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mgedmin810coldboot: typically 1 block is 1 kb18:57
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* mgedmin810 still kinda overwhelmed by the summit18:58
lizardocoldboot: but, if the filesystem is ext2/3, you can get it using e.g. : sudo dumpe2fs /dev/sda1 | grep 'Block size:'18:58
coldbootlizardo: vfat18:58
mgedmin810unrelated18:58
mgedmin810iostat reports in 1kb units always18:58
coldbootah ok18:58
mgedmin810I think18:59
coldbootAnd iostat seems to accumulate these numbers.18:59
mgedmin810;)18:59
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tor2_Damn, someone stole sjgadsby's N900 box from under his chair (twitter)19:01
lizardocoldboot: well, you could also try "stat -f /some/file" where some file is a file on that filesystem, and look at the "Block size:"  (not tested with a vfat partition)19:02
ShapeshifterSo, at this summit, is everyone walking around looking down on an N8x0 constantly walking into each other while talking on irc?19:02
mgedmin810nope, some of us look down on an N90019:03
Shapeshifterlucky19:03
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mtcno info on summit streaming?  guess we'll have to wait for the recordings to be published19:05
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mtchope the talks have the microphones set up near the speakers - not like last year19:05
mtcrather, earlier this year ;)19:06
mtcthe maemo/mozilla recordings were rough19:06
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* ShadowJK wonders if assuming 512 byte block size would "just work"19:09
fralsi know what assumption is the mother to.. ;)19:09
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fralss/to/of maybe19:10
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fralscant wait to see some footage of q3 running on the n90019:26
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johnsqHi19:29
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iDialektSweet Jesus19:39
iDialektIs this channel really that popular?19:39
Shapeshiftertis19:40
iDialektOr are we all bots posing?19:40
iDialektGuess so lol19:40
ShapeshifterI am.19:40
iDialektSo what's the latest? Are we still excited for the n900?19:40
SpeedEvilmost people lurk.19:40
SpeedEvilWe're all waiting for the n920.19:40
Shapeshifterwell yeah. but there aren't many people here now actually because they're all hanging out in amsterdam19:41
iDialektYeah with AT&T support right?19:41
SpeedEvilIt will be thinner, lighter, smaller, and have a 17" monitor.19:41
iDialektIt's so hard for me to ever switch devices anymore19:41
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iDialektUsed to be hardcore symbian fan19:42
SpeedEvilYou mean as you lose all your stuff?19:42
iDialektBut they lost me after the 580019:42
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iDialektNo as in im finally content19:42
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iDialektWith the iPhone 3gs.19:42
SpeedEvilah19:42
Shapeshifter>.>19:42
SpeedEvilIf you like it, stick with that.19:42
iDialektReally takes a lot to want to ever switch19:42
Guest58058clearly never tried the Pre19:43
Guest58058^_^19:43
SpeedEvilWe don't really care that other people use other things.19:43
iDialektBecause there will be devices with more features but less than what the entire package consists of19:43
Guest58058lol ig'nant19:43
iDialektEase of use and app support.. And intuitiveness is big to me19:43
iDialektI tried the pre but maybe too early19:44
Guest58058maemo and webos have both of those things over iphone19:44
Guest58058astroturfer/19:44
iDialektHow so ?19:44
Guest58058who comes pimpin' apple inna nokia channel?19:44
iDialektTrust me I've owned more devices than one can imagine19:44
iDialektIm not pimping anything19:44
SpeedEviliDialekt: Well - go away and don't bother us, and when you get your hands on a n900 to try, report back and say if you like it.19:45
Guest58058i can imagine an awful lot --Han Solo19:45
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iDialektOh come on. Please don't be zealots.19:45
SpeedEvilWandering into random channels saying you like your iphone isn't really productive for anyone, if you haven't experienced the alternative.19:45
Guest58058...said the iphone fanboi19:45
Guest58058i'm not a zealot, i love maemo AND webos over iphone19:45
iDialektOk which is fine19:45
iDialektBut I come here to find out why19:46
Guest58058and i tell them both that. you don't see me in #apple talking trash ;)19:46
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Guest58058then hush, and lurk, no trolling19:46
iDialektI come from a long list of symbian phones19:46
iDialektFavorite was the e9019:46
mtceverytime I see that word zealot used, my bloodpressure goes up...19:46
Guest58058ew, symbian is bleh19:46
Guest58058no wonder you're jaded19:46
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SpeedEvilsymbian and maemo have relatively little.19:46
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SpeedEvil^to to with each other19:47
iDialektthe little of maemo I experinced was an old n8""19:47
iDialekt80019:47
iDialektIt was nothing close to a phone19:47
Mouseybecause it WASN'T a phone19:47
Mouseyto begin with19:47
iDialektBut I don't think that was it's intention19:47
ShapeshifteriDialekt: you asked "why" (we/I like maemo): open, easy to port to, easy to code for, familiar, free, feature rich, flexible. And why I find the n900 appealing: brilliant resolution, keyboard, loads of tech gadgets, power.19:48
iDialektBut the user interface was a bit clunky but it was probably too early19:48
Mouseyall the things the iphone ain't19:48
ShapeshifteriDialekt: have you watched any n900 clips on youtube, or have you read any reviews?19:48
iDialektAh. What makes the iPhone hard to code for?19:48
Mouseynobody's gonna kick google voice apps off the nseries19:49
iDialektObjective c?19:49
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iDialektMouse : true lol19:49
ShapeshifteriDialekt: I didn't say it was hard to code for the iphone.19:49
iDialektShapeshifter: And yes I nearly wet my pants19:49
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ShapeshifteriDialekt: I said it was easy to code for maemo ;)19:49
iDialektIt's like everything I wanted in an e9019:49
jeremiahAnd, don't forget what jzemlin said today: Apple takes 30% of your gross revenue!19:49
jeremiahFAIL19:49
iDialektAnd 580"19:49
iDialekt580019:50
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Mouseyapple takes 30% of revenue for code they didn't even write?19:50
Mouseylike it's some kinda PRIVILEDGE to write for iphone?19:50
Mouseylol19:50
Shapeshifterhere's a reason http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/OpenOffice_Writer_in_Maemo_5.jpg (not because it's OO, but proof of conecpt, show-off of portability and flexibility)19:50
luke-jrMousey: wow, fail19:50
iDialektNokia has been a favorite because they always have high quality hardware19:50
luke-jriDialekt: they do? :p19:51
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luke-jrdepends on what you compare with19:51
iDialektCameras were pretty much untouchable and unseen on any other crappy smartphone19:51
iDialektWell yeah not compared to Sony or some lgs maybe19:51
Mouseyexcept treo >70019:51
* luke-jr notes at least the N810's camera totally sucks19:51
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iDialektBut generally there wasn't any popular PDAs with great cameras ever19:51
Mouseyexcept the Zire19:52
ShadowJKthe n810 has a webcam not a camera :-)19:52
Mouseyoh wait, no their cameras sucked too19:52
luke-jrShadowJK: no difference in my mind19:52
MouseyShadowJK: except that video had to be hacked in19:52
ShadowJKN900 has both webcam and video19:52
ShadowJKuh both webcam and camera19:52
rangeIgnore19:52
ShadowJKthe front camera on N900 is probably same quality as N810 ;-)19:53
rangeWell, that went well :) Sorry.19:53
Mouseylol19:53
iDialektWow.19:53
iDialektI seriously didn't come here closed minded. Sheesh. Thanks for your responses shape an mousey19:54
Mouseyyah that was fun.. now on to #webos-internals to figure out how to upgrade Preware, before i get my replacement n810.. oh, or n900.. maybe.. jury's still out19:54
ShapeshifteriDialekt: did I mention multitasking? X-D19:54
MouseyShapeshifter: yes, in a massively multitasking way19:54
GeneralAntillesAh, qwerty12, you're my hero. :P19:54
iDialektIm concerned with something minor like portrait mode19:55
iDialektOn the n90019:55
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: hehe19:55
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ShapeshifteriDialekt: if you can bear using both hands most of the time, it shouldn't be an issue. and if you're lucky, your favorite app gets portrait support by community19:55
Mouseylisten to pandora and use google maps and have 3 web pages open at the same time? NOT BLOODY LIKELY19:56
Mouseylol apple19:56
iDialektWell that's good to know.19:56
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, how do I get a system beep over dbus?19:56
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iDialektWhat is the pre based off of?19:56
GeneralAntillesI lost it for a little while last night and didn't have mplayer to start playing music. :D19:57
Mouseylinux, just like maemo is19:57
iDialektLike what Os? Is it unix?19:57
iDialektOh wow19:57
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Sorry?19:57
ShapeshifteriDialekt: to tell you what my biggest concerns are with the phone yet: 1. screen scratches easily 2. battery life 3. no compas (gadget, but would be nice) 4. keyboard to small / bad (I don't like the one on the n97)19:57
GeneralAntillesLinux kernel19:57
GeneralAntillesPalm proprietary userspace.19:57
Mouseyno, only luna is proprietary19:57
GeneralAntillesiDialekt, whereas Maemo is Linux kernel and mostly open userspace.19:57
ShadowJKYeah but you can't access the regular userland, right?19:57
GeneralAntillesiDialekt, X11/GTK/Qt19:57
Mouseyyes you can19:57
iDialektShapeshifter: Probably the same things i was worried about19:57
ShadowJKI thought it was closed19:57
iDialektEspecialy the screen scratching19:58
Mouseyits not closed19:58
ShadowJKbut no X, right?19:58
iDialektAnd reading about maemo 6 makes me angry lol19:58
MouseyShadowJK: that's correct, luna19:58
* ccooke wonders19:58
Mouseybut underneath you'll find all the same packages you'd find at the CLI on maemo19:58
ShapeshifteriDialekt: I'll buy it anyway as I can't stand the iphone. Mainly because of iTunes and the fact that you can't share data between apps. it's soo stupid. Can't open an attachment from mail in an editor app or something19:58
ShadowJKI guess there's nothing like an xterm there?19:58
ShadowJKor similar19:58
ShapeshifteriDialekt: imo the iphone OS is insanely stupid.19:58
Mouseybash, ssh, dropbear, binutils19:58
MouseyShapeshifter: ditto19:58
ShadowJKMousey, I thought that stuff was locked out19:59
qwerty12Shapeshifter: IMO? :)19:59
iDialektCapacitive multitouch on maemo 619:59
MouseyShadowJK: not even close19:59
Shapeshifter^^19:59
Mouseyi use my old nokia n810 microusb cable to charge my pre, and also to get a terminal window,19:59
ShadowJKah well, pre and n900 are same category right now: unavailable :)19:59
Mouseyi'm telling you, between the pre and the n810, there's no better mobile solution combination19:59
ShadowJKbut n900 will hopefulyl be available in a few weeks :)20:00
iDialektHmm good point Shapeshifter but I've become blinded by all the workarounds and jailbreaking community20:00
MouseyShadowJK: huh? pre's been out since august20:00
iDialektWhich make the device tolerable in my every day life20:00
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ShadowJKMousey, in "select" markets like N90020:00
ShapeshifteriDialekt: ah. maybe jailbroken it is any good.20:00
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Shapeshifterno idea about that.20:00
Mouseyno need to jailbreak the n8xx, n900, or pre.. the vendors WANT you to have full access20:00
ccookennevening, all20:01
MouseyShadowJK: check this out:20:01
iDialektI used to do the whole custom rom thing on android and windows mobile but it just got exhausting20:01
Mouseyroot@castle:/# uname -a20:01
MouseyLinux castle 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #1 175.1.23.1.1.1.1 armv7l unknown20:01
Mouseygood thing that's not needed for nokia or palm20:01
coldbootDid you have to jailbreak the Apple Newton?20:01
qwerty12Mousey: 2.6.28 on this N90020:01
iDialektAndroid still seems like it has potential given better hardware but it feels like a glorified blackberry20:01
ShadowJKhm20:01
ShapeshifteriDialekt: hardware?20:01
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Mouseyqwerty12: yea, you're awesome, i don't have one yet, so i can't brag about THAT yet. =(20:02
iDialektYeah the g1 is trash20:02
ShapeshifteriDialekt: anyway, imo android is too closed. It's too much of a bother.20:02
iDialektAnd the hero ain't too shabby but week20:02
ShapeshifteriDialekt: ah yes, of course.20:02
iDialektLol really too closed?20:02
qwerty12Mousey: I just wanted a version war :p20:02
GeneralAntillescoldboot, lol, jailbreak to get to what? ;)20:02
MouseyShapeshifter: yah, webos is way more open than android20:02
GeneralAntillescoldboot, wasn't really a lot to the Newton.20:02
Mouseyqwerty12: =P apples and oranges =)20:02
ShadowJKwtf20:02
GeneralAntillescoldboot, but you could install any application you wanted.20:02
ShadowJKI can't even find pre on amazon20:02
Mouseyhell, the pre even has pulseaudio20:03
iDialektI understand being open and etc but for a phone OS im sure there has to be some kind of standards and etc20:03
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Mouseynot that that's a bragging point, i hate pulseaudio20:03
ShapeshifteriDialekt: you have to root it. that's too much already. and now custom roms can't be distributed anymore because of binary stuff and they aren't organized for cutomization. Unlike the maemo repo system which makes everything real easy, even with the proprietary stuff.20:03
coldbootI'm guessing someone in here must have had a Newton.20:03
ShadowJKand there was a news article about europe availability, and that only mentione selling through operators...20:03
Mouseyoh, i have a question20:03
ShadowJKI guess general availability is a few months (or years) off then :/20:03
qwerty12Mousey: Damn, I was gonna say that the N900 uses it too..20:03
iDialektIm sure none of you use a mac right? Id assume not from your responses so far lol20:03
Mouseywill the n900, or rather Maemo finally have java?20:03
ShadowJKIt does not have java20:04
iDialektOh yeah that c guy just got hit with a terminate or fail notice I think20:04
ShapeshifteriDialekt: By court ruling, I can get nearer then 20ft to a mac >.>20:04
ccookeMousey: not by default, but sun has an arm build now20:04
ShadowJKas for "will", that depends whether someone will do it20:04
iDialektCynogen20:04
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GeneralAntillescoldboot, two.20:04
Shapeshifter*can't20:04
iDialektShapeshifter: What do you use?20:04
coldbootlizardo: Block sizes are 2052 per megabyte20:04
coldbootlizardo: Done experimentally.20:04
GeneralAntillesiDialekt, lots of Mac users in here.20:04
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Mouseyfreetype, fuse, ext3, dosfsutils, curl, alsa, bzip, busybox, (bash too in my case), gnutls, sysvinit.. i'm tryna figure out how webos isn't just another linux distro20:05
iDialektGeneralAntilles: Sorry was just curious20:05
iDialektI feel like maybe some were anti apple20:05
Mouseyi'm anti apple20:05
ShapeshifteriDialekt: linux. on my laptop I have XP in virtualbox for emergencies and it runs very fast.20:05
iDialektMaybe it's just anti JesusPhone lol20:05
GeneralAntillesSome of the Mac users are, even. ;)20:05
qwerty12Mousey: Does its balls hang low? If not, then it isn't another Linux distro20:05
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I've become very dissatisfied with the moves they've been making in their mobile division.20:05
Mouseyqwerty12: i think it's a girl20:05
ShadowJKthe lack of X makes it harder to bring new software to it20:06
qwerty12Mousey: That's what they want you to think20:06
iDialektIt's weird because I may have different views on the apple iPhone20:06
ShadowJKbut since there's presumably framebuffer, getting mplayer to run on it should be easy :)20:06
Mouseypersonally, i think they create shiny polished garbage and sell it to unsuspecting untechnical consumers20:06
Shapeshifterthe window manager of OS X is totally unusable.20:06
iDialektOnlybecause im looking at it from a consumer perspective20:06
Shapeshiftermain reason why I don't like macs. And there's no replacement WM20:06
Mouseyqwerty12: its got nice boobs20:06
iDialektWM?20:06
ShapeshifteriDialekt: window manager20:06
iDialektoh20:07
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qwerty12Mousey: Sometimes, "nice" boobs are not just common to women...20:07
iDialektI guess that's beyond me20:07
Mouseyafter using kde4+compiz, there's no way in hell apple or microsoft will beat the linux desktop user interface20:07
Mouseyqwerty12: woah.. well i try not to frequent that part of town. ;)20:07
ShapeshifterMousey: compiz standalone :)20:07
iDialektMy biggest gripe with Linux is popularity, compatibility20:07
iDialektIm all about standards20:07
qwerty12zerojay: <3 Streets of Rage20:07
Mouseyif popularity is a gripe, i question your standards20:07
iDialektPopularity = consumer support20:08
Mouseyneither maemo or webos are all that popular, but they're head and shoulders above anything apple's ever made20:08
iDialektHead and shoulders in terms of features etc20:08
Mouseyand stability20:08
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ShadowJKmy biggest gripe with Windows is compatibility and software availability. I end up installing Msys, Mingw, coreutils, an X server, and then I realize I've basically spent a week installing linux userland tools on windows before getting any work done, and might just as well go back to a linux distro ;p20:08
Mouseyand not-fscking-you-in-the-ass-ity20:08
Mouseyand not outrageously expensive20:08
Mouseywell.. the n900 maybe20:08
Mousey;)20:09
iDialektLol20:09
ShapeshifteriDialekt: well, to break down what I find wrong with the OS X WM: can't resize windows from edges, have to aim for lower right corner. Shouldn't be neccessary anway as Alt-Middleclick should also resize but that is lacking as well. Maximumize button does random resizing. Alt-Tab doesn't switch between windows but tasks and every app uses a different hotkey for in-task window switching. Stupid dock wastes space on both sides.20:09
ShadowJKbah, N900 is cheap ;)20:09
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ShapeshifteriDialekt: oh, and for some insane reasoning, <ENTER> renames files20:09
Shapeshifter>.> !! wtf20:09
Shapeshifterenter?? why?? why not F2 as any other sane system20:09
iDialektShapeshifter: Fair enough20:09
iDialektLol20:09
Shapeshifterenter should open the dir/file, not rename it20:09
Mouseyhere's how you know apple's a sham. 2009? still one mouse button20:09
iDialektI love my mac unfortunately20:10
Mouseyyou should cheat on your mac with ubuntu20:10
iDialektI miss windows at times20:10
Mouseyubuntu runs faster on your mac than osx does20:10
iDialektespecially with windows 7 nearing20:10
iDialektBut steve balmer makes me angry20:10
ShapeshifterMousey: though, ubuntu is about the slowest linux to install ;)20:10
Mouseyheh, good thing you won't have to reinstall it every 6 months like with windows20:11
iDialektMousey watched my roomate Struggle with ubuntu20:11
iDialektNo way20:11
Mouseythats right, not popular enough for you..20:11
* qwerty12 gives Shapeshifter Windows 2000 to install20:11
Mouseyits all clearchannel stations for you, and network tv, too20:11
iDialektDidn't mean it like that20:12
Mouseyif it's not in the top 40 it must be crap20:12
iDialektMore about community support maybe20:12
Mouseylol20:12
* Shapeshifter puts CD into paper shredder20:12
Mouseyubuntu not about community support?20:12
Mouseythat's hilarity20:12
iDialektIm sure it's huge20:12
Mouseythat's ALL it is20:12
iDialektIf you know where to look20:12
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Mouseyok this was fun.. i'm out of troll food..20:12
iDialektWhat about hardware.20:12
* Mousey goes off for coffee20:12
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I'm going to end up with a half-dozen of these things I have to return and no real ones. :P20:12
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Mouseywhat about hardware??20:13
ShapeshifteriDialekt: ubuntu is okay for a linux noob. does many things out of the box. any other linux would probably be even more worrying.20:13
Mouseyeverybody knows linux has better hardware support than windows20:13
Mouseysheesh20:13
ShapeshifteriDialekt: hardware suuport ain't bad.20:13
ShapeshifterMousey: "better"?20:13
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iDialektJesus why is every channel so different but all end up with the same quick to call troll comments20:14
MouseyShapeshifter: no, officially better20:14
iDialektPeople inquiring blindfolded doesn't mean trolling20:14
GeneralAntillesxterm does not handle not having a tty well.20:14
Mouseyits taken me half an hour to call you a troll20:14
Mouseythat's hardly quick20:14
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Mouseybut saying things like "quick to call troll" especially after half an hour20:14
Mouseythat's trollin'20:14
ShapeshifterI don't really see iDialekt trolling >.>20:14
MouseyShapeshifter: my standards are higher i guess20:14
Mouseywhich is funny, cuz i'm such a loudmouth myself20:15
iDialektIm just trying to find out more information outside of a forum or etc20:15
GeneralAntillesiDialekt, it's an easy out when somebody doesn't feel like discussing something anymore. :P20:15
MouseyGeneralAntilles: touche'20:15
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iDialektI like hearing it from an irc perspective, instant feedback etc20:15
* Mousey still hasn't gotten coffee or updated preware20:15
iDialektEvery channel is so different but similar in defending their OS lol20:16
Mouseyi do like that Maemo uses X20:16
mtcsome slides and comments from the summit : http://ur1.ca/d9hx  (Maemo5 is "DRM-ready"!)20:16
ShapeshifteriDialekt: well, the feedback being: n900 > pre > android > * > iphone20:16
MouseyShapeshifter: i'm withya20:16
iDialektThat makes sense20:16
Mouseyi think i'm mostly high on webos right now cuz i don't have my n810 anymore =(20:16
Mouseyi'm not convinced i need two phones20:16
solarionI just wanna know why I'm getting a floating point exception when running my code. :(20:16
iDialektThat's a solid assessment20:16
Mouseybut i'm gonna take GeneralAntilles's advice and wait for the n900 before i go bargin hunting20:17
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, WTF did Nokia do to the layouts?20:17
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Mouseybut not having my tablet is REALLY hampering my ability to sysadmin my home network =(20:17
iDialektThe pre screen is too small for my tastes20:17
MouseyiDialekt: then you'd hate the Pixi20:17
iDialektAnd the pixi looks like20:17
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: What layouts? (Sorry, I'm really quite tired)20:17
iDialektYeah you beat me20:17
iDialektLol20:17
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, xmodmap seems to just be breaking keys.20:17
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Mouseystill, you're missing a lot dissing it outright without even using it20:18
iDialektNo not dissing20:18
MouseyESPECIALLY compared to the friggin' ipwn20:18
iDialektJust saying I don't like the hardware currently20:18
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Ah. Dunno, I still haven't remapped my keys and in the rare times that I've done so (on an N810), I've resorted to modifying the layout file directly :)20:18
iDialektI don't knownwhats in store20:18
iDialektBut android is spitting out phones but more useless hardware all using the dame CPU speeds20:19
iDialektYawn20:19
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iDialektSame*20:19
iDialektSnapdragon anyone?20:19
* GeneralAntilles isn't a Qualcomm fan.20:20
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iDialektI wish nokia had a wider American audience20:20
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qwerty12GeneralAntilles++. Fuck those CDMA wankers20:20
GeneralAntillesTheir lack of NAM sales is entirely deserved, iDialekt.20:20
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Mouseythat's nonsense, CDMA's data network is so much more faster than GSM in america20:20
Mouseyand no cdma means no asian markets like japan20:21
GeneralAntillesThe 5800 proved that point rather soundly.20:21
GeneralAntillesMousey, er, yeah.20:21
iDialektTheir marketing here blows donkey20:21
GeneralAntillesiDialekt, no OTA updates for NAM units, flashed updates are WAY behind Europe.20:21
GeneralAntillesSupport is basically non-existent.20:21
iDialektYeah20:21
iDialektI can 100 % agree20:22
iDialektI had to always phoniex my crap20:22
GeneralAntillesOK, xmodmap totally doesn't work.20:22
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* GeneralAntilles wants his pipe/escape/tab.20:22
iDialektSo what's going to change with the n900. Does it have exchange support20:22
GeneralAntillesYes20:22
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: "Behind Europe" - I wouldn't limit this to just phones ;P20:22
iDialektIm holding off on paying for another year of mobile me lol20:23
* qwerty12 cackles20:23
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, yes, we're behind you in our crushing march towards socialism. ;)20:23
kr1shnaktowards socialism?20:23
kr1shnakI thought Europe was already there20:23
iDialektI want some pop tarts20:23
iDialektYou know something silly?20:23
iDialektI think it's weird that you have a tiny thumbnail pic for contacts on that huge maemo screen on the n90020:24
iDialektWhy not full screen caller id out the box?20:24
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ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, one thing that's awesome about maemo is that there's just one OS version for the entire world20:24
iDialektAnd hopefully obnoxious video ringtones lol20:24
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, yeah, that's helpful.20:25
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ShadowJKOn the S60 side there were a gazillion hardware revisions with a gazillion localization versions, and by murphy's law you always get the firmware for YOUR particular setup LAST :-(20:25
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iDialektI wonder if the screen scratching is gonna incite a recall.20:25
* microlith watches video from the summit20:25
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GeneralAntillesWhat screen scratching?20:26
iDialektN90020:26
ShapeshifteriDialekt: oh btw, to be fair, clear upside of os x is that it's a pretty rock solid unix-like system _and_ supports lots of proprietary production software (adobe, music stuff, CG....)20:26
iDialektBut the units they tried aren't final right?20:26
microlithall screens scratch if handled badly, why would the N900 be special?20:26
iDialektmicrolith:  but it's been said like way too easily20:26
iDialektCould be wrong20:26
qwerty12Shapeshifter: I was starting to like you until you said that :(20:27
jwattdoes anyone know how to force wireless connection to use pre-shared key rather than Wi-Fi Protected Setup?20:27
rangeGreat. There is *ONE* review on preview hardware stating that it *might* scratch easily and now all screens scratch badly.20:27
Mouseyqwerty12: lol20:27
iDialektOh geeze20:27
Shapeshifterqwerty12: it's true. Though even if I had to use such software I'd rather resort to virtualbox or even wine before having to use that awful WM20:27
Shapeshifterand they messed up some of the unix stuff pretty bad20:27
iDialektSorry I was misnformed20:27
GeneralAntillesiDialekt, yeah, take that particular point with a grain of salt. ;)20:28
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iDialektSomeone in hear repeated the screen scratching thing so I assumed it might have been a well known problem20:28
microlithGeneralAntilles: preferrably with said grain not on the screen :)20:28
Shapeshifterrange: I've read it repeatedly.20:28
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Shapeshifterbut I'll treasure it anyway20:28
Shapeshifterit will be dressed in finer cloth then me20:29
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iDialektI really don't want to jump carriers for a device20:29
rangeShapeshifter: Everytime I read it, the my-symbian preview is cited.20:29
iDialektI love my NAM AT&T 3g20:29
Shapeshifterrange: eldar said the same thing20:29
iDialektAt least it's good to know I didn't make it to ignore with range lol20:29
iDialektGot scared for a moment :)20:29
* GeneralAntilles hasn't had a single scratch.20:30
rangeShapeshifter: Funny, he didn't in his first "review".20:30
GeneralAntillesUnless they're carrying them in their keys pocket.20:30
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iDialektWhen is the n900 slated to arrive by the way?20:31
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: that's exactly the point20:31
iDialektI wonder what's in store for other maemo devices. Please announce a nam unit at the summit please20:31
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, would anybody expect mobile devices not to be scratched in a keys pocket? ;)20:31
iDialektWith AT&T 3g20:31
GeneralAntillesI mean, you have two pockets, fragile stuff goes in one, sharp stuff goes in the other.20:31
DocScrutinizernah, not me20:31
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Zlatanjuego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html20:31
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glassi don't give my 5800 any safeguarding treatment.. worked fine so far20:32
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iDialektGlass!!!!20:32
iDialektHey buddy20:32
DocScrutinizerthough I didn't care too much when my OMNIA had first scratch after 1 week20:32
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: ah of course >.> Are there people who mix keys and phones?!20:32
glassey20:32
iDialektSomeone familiar20:32
iDialektAwesome possum20:32
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GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, apparently. <_<20:32
Shapeshifterblasphemers!20:32
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iDialektYeah my 5800 didn't need a screen protector ever20:32
SpeedEvilI want a proper touchscreen.20:32
ShadowJKI sometimes mix alot of stuff in pocket, but I always use the pouch for my phone and N810 then20:33
SpeedEvilThey have diamond coated glass that's used for barcode scanner touchscreens.20:33
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DocScrutinizerMy "soft" pocked is overfilled20:33
iDialektThe x6 looks weird like an abomination20:33
SpeedEvilover which you slide cans and stuff all day20:33
SpeedEvilthat + SAW = FTW20:33
ShadowJKwhy does barcode scanner have touchscreen...20:33
GeneralAntillesI hope Boxwave releases a protector soon.20:33
GeneralAntillesThe anti-glare is really helpful in adverse lighting conditions.20:34
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iDialektThe good thing is I can sell my iPhone for s minimum of 650 and grab a n900 quick as hell20:34
SpeedEvilShadowJK: they don't20:34
SpeedEvilShadowJK: they have a diamond coated _really_ robust anti-scratch window20:34
iDialektI wonder if I could pre order and have it before my birthday?20:34
ShadowJKright20:34
iDialektNovember 8tg20:34
iDialektWhen is the n900 supposed to be here?20:35
SpeedEvilShadowJK: which if you put a surface accoustic wave detector on, and a screen behind would be a very, very abuse resistant display.20:35
GeneralAntillesiDialekt, should ship this month, according to most sources.20:35
ShapeshifterI read that it will be delayd into november20:35
carsSorry if I've missed it, but does the n900 have the anti-glare screen like the n810 does?20:35
iDialektI think the smart thing would be to use it and wait to switch carriers20:35
ccookethere are abojut fifteen dates I've seen20:35
DocScrutinizershop says 10/3020:35
ShadowJKI read that small shipments will arrive w44, a slightly bigger one w45, and "normal" quantities w46 onward20:35
iDialektMy friend works for nokia and is getting his unit next week20:36
ccookebut the ones actually from the maemo team say "october"20:36
ShadowJK(iirc that's what nokia's reps told one operator in .fi)20:37
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ccooke(I'mclassing the nokia store20:37
ccookes as unlikely to know the real date in advance)20:37
carsI suppose I should ask that after it's actually been released..20:38
Mouseythe thing that pisses me off is if i get an n900 it won't be because i want a phone20:38
ShapeshifterI wonder if I should order now, or if the price will drop when its released. Any experiences how prices usually go with new devices. up or down?20:38
ShapeshifterI think up? >.>20:38
Mouseythat was the genius of the n810, imho20:38
ShadowJKI'm considering continuing to use my E75 as my phone20:38
ccookehmm, still need to get better ith this keyboard20:38
Mouseyi'm used to having multiple devices for multiple purposes20:38
Mouseybut apparently i'm the freak20:38
ccookeShapeshifter: where do you live?20:38
ccookecountrywise20:38
Shapeshifterccooke: Switzerland20:39
ccookewasn't there an operator doing a sbsidy there?20:39
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ccookesubsidy20:39
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Shapeshiftersince the announcement, the price at the cheapest seller dropped twice, from 900 to 790 to 716 chf20:39
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, it probably wont go down significantly until about 6 months down the road.20:39
kr1shnakyou cant run the latest version of maemo on an N800 can you?20:39
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GeneralAntillescars, yes, it has a transflective screen, no, neither device has an anti-glare one.20:40
Shapeshifter716chf being 470 euros20:40
GeneralAntilleskr1shnak, you want Mer.20:40
GeneralAntilles~mer20:40
infobotmethinks mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer20:40
GeneralAntillesBut the short answer is, no.20:40
kr1shnakso I couldnt use an N800 to develop apps to run on an N900?20:40
kr1shnakthats what I am really interested in20:40
kr1shnakand maybe checking out liqbase, which I think looks freaking awesome20:41
Shapeshifterccooke: well, all 3 major operators do subsidy if you sign a contract20:41
Mousey...so i'm EXTRA screwed if i don't want it for use as a phone?20:42
ccookeliqbase looks very like the wireframes they demo'd of harmattan20:42
kr1shnakyeah?20:42
kr1shnakcool20:42
ccookeMousey: how do you make that out?20:42
kr1shnakwhat exactly is harmattan? Maemo 6?20:42
iDialektThe n810 commercials were so awesome lol20:42
iDialektThe marketing in Europe is stellar20:43
GeneralAntilleskr1shnak, yes.20:43
iDialektLooked so high budget lol20:43
GeneralAntillesN810 marketing?20:43
rangeIn Europe?20:43
GeneralAntillesiDialekt, you've seen http://maemo.nokia.com right?20:43
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Mouseyccooke: where would i just by the standalone n900 in america a) without a contract, and b) while justifying the increased cost since i want it for a tablet and not a phone?20:43
GeneralAntillesMousey, costs aren't entirely due to the radio.20:44
kr1shnakI'm so tempted to preorder an N90020:44
GeneralAntillesConsidering how much more hardware you're getting with the N900, it's pretty comparable to the N810 price-wise.20:44
GeneralAntillesAlso considering inflation.20:44
ccookeMousey it's a €500 device. some operators offer a subsidy, but you will always pay about the same20:44
Mouseyno, but they're subject to those costs in american markets BECAUSE of that radio, it'll never be sold as another type of device but a phone20:44
GeneralAntillesThe N810 went for about $479 new20:45
Mouseyi could get the n810 at best buy once upon a time, because they're a generic electronics retailer20:45
SpeedEvilerr 'in american markets' ?20:45
ccookeMousey: buy it on contract. throw away the sim and say "I got it on credit"20:45
GeneralAntillesThe N900 is MSRP $650 and priced more around $580 retail.20:45
Mouseybut there's no way the n900 will be found on shelves at stores, they'll be available from carriers20:45
ccookeor pay it all in advance and buy without a sim20:46
SpeedEvilMousey: I wouldn't bet on it soon20:46
GeneralAntilles$100 or so isn't a big price to pay for a much nicer screen, accelerometers, a nicer keyboard, 32GB of internal storage, OMAP3, vibra, etc.20:46
SpeedEvilMousey: at least direclty through retailers20:46
Shapeshifterhow are prices in your countries? With 1gb per month, 30mins free talk time to all networks + europe + US, and 3 numbers of this network or fixed lines always free, I'll pay roughly 660 euros after 12 months including the n900.20:46
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Mouseywell this is my whole point. because of the gsm radio, it makes it harder and more expensive for me, regardless of how much better it might be.. i'm just kinda mad the n810 isn't available anymore because of this20:46
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: It's of that order in the UK20:46
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rangeShapeshifter: So how is Switzerland cheaper than Germany? :)20:46
Mouseyi get unlimited data20:47
Mouseyand more minutes than i'll ever use, for us$12920:47
ccookeMousey: yes, because nobody would ever sell a phone without a contract. it just doesn't happen, huh?20:47
SpeedEvilMousey: err - how does the radio make it more expensive for you? Other than it adding a little to the price20:47
Mouseyccooke: not in this country20:47
Shapeshifterrange: it is? well often the devices themselves are cheaper because of lower sales tax20:47
Shapeshifter8% isntead of 19%20:47
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MouseySpeedEvil: because where can i buy a cellphone without a contract?20:47
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rangeShapeshifter: Okay, that might be the reason20:47
ShapeshifterMousey: per month?20:47
MouseyShapeshifter: i want a tablet computer, not a phone20:48
ccookeMousey: right, so the huge array of unlocked simfree phones on amazon.com was an illusion?20:48
GeneralAntillesMousey, pretty much anywhere?20:48
Mouseythe n810 was the perfect tablet computer20:48
SpeedEvilMousey: nokia.com20:48
GeneralAntillesMousey, you don't even have to pay tax with Amazon. <_<20:48
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ShapeshifterMousey: no i mean, 129 usd per month?20:48
MouseyGeneralAntilles: well i hope it's available right away then20:48
MouseyShapeshifter: for my phone, yah20:48
ccookeSpeedEvil: also at nokia stores20:48
wazdAny shocking details?)20:48
rangeShapeshifter: Cheapest retailer I'd trust is at 519,-20:48
SpeedEvilccooke: that too20:48
Mouseyno nokia stores in wa20:48
ShapeshifterMousey: ah, including the contract20:48
MouseyMousey: yah20:48
SpeedEvilMousey: so order it online20:49
Mouseys/Mousey/Shapeshifter/20:49
infobotMousey meant: Shapeshifter: yah20:49
Mouseyi guess so20:49
Shapeshifterrange: cheapest here is 471 euros20:49
rangeWell.20:49
Mouseyand pay for shipping, and overpriced20:49
Mouseybut yah20:49
rangeThat is EUR 500 - something :)20:49
luke-jrseriously, what do people who like the N810 use it for? :/20:49
SpeedEvilMousey: so wait until it's available through carriers in some months20:49
ccookea littl while ago you could get it for £399 ish20:49
Mouseyi use it for sshing into devices, and in datacenters to manage machines20:49
Mouseywithout having to bust out a whole laptop for it20:49
ccookewith a pay as you go sim, no less20:49
luke-jrMousey: from where?20:50
Mouseyluke-jr: sprint. fastest data network in th us20:50
luke-jrah, tethering20:50
luke-jrbut Sprint forbids it20:50
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Mouseynope20:50
luke-jrso N810 is useful if you violate ToS only20:50
Mouseythey just forbid it on paper, i've tethered with sprint since the QualcommPDQ20:50
luke-jr"on paper" is still forbidden20:51
Mouseyi don't know anybody who DOESN'T tether20:51
rangeI am so happy *not* to be in the american phone market ...20:51
Mouseynor who's ever gotten grief for it.. hell sprint store employees tether20:51
luke-jrMousey: and go over 5 GB per month?20:51
fralsrange: same here lol20:52
Shapeshifter"tethering"?20:52
rangeForbidden tethering.20:52
Shapeshifterwhat's that?20:52
rangeAlthough that happens right here right now with t-mobile and the iphone.20:52
rangeShapeshifter: Using your phone as a modem.20:52
Shapeshifterand why is that forbidden?20:52
Mouseyif i have to go over 5GB in a month, i'm not using a mobile network, no matter how fast20:52
rangeShapeshifter: Ask Sprint/AT&T/whoever does that :)20:53
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, Bluetooth DUN.20:53
Shapeshifterand how do they inforce this?20:53
SpeedEvilThat's only 150M/day20:53
Shapeshifter*enforce20:53
MouseyShapeshifter: it's not forbidden so much as discourgaed20:53
luke-jrMousey: even 56K dialup goes over 5 GB per month20:53
iDialektMy nokia contact is getting his n900 today20:53
luke-jrShapeshifter: greedy companies20:53
Mouseyluke-jr: oh. well i never tallied it..20:53
iDialektAt least that will be a world of a difference to try before buying20:53
iDialektLol20:53
SpeedEvilFor example, 3h of streaming radio will eat 150M/day20:54
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luke-jrI would want to do VoIP20:54
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Mouseywell unlimited so far has been pretty unlimited, and i stream pandora every day all day mostly20:54
Mouseyoh, yea, skype20:54
Mouseyi've used it for that20:54
Mouseyvideo too20:54
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Mouseymind you not from my n810 =(20:55
SpeedEvilAnd the contract saying you can't, and they can come and enforce that at any time at all, legally doesn't worry you?20:55
Mouseystill tho, the n810 by far made me the most productive admin for linux boxes evar when i had it, i could connect to any machine i had access to, and do stuff i could only do from a laptop before..20:55
Mouseymy productivity is down 26% since it was losted. =(20:55
iDialektI hope the battery life is as stellar as the 5800 on the n900.. What ae20:56
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iDialektWhat are the chances?20:56
luke-jrMousey: I want an upgraded SL-C310020:56
rangeYeah, the n800 really was missing a keyboard. But as that was the only real change in the N810 I didn't buy one ...20:56
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Mouseyyah, the n800 has those two SD slots tho.. n800 + n810 + USB/OTG = solid state win!20:56
javispedro3D DRIVERS!!!!!!!!!!20:57
javispedro3D DRIIIIIIIIIVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERS20:57
Mouseywhat? where?!20:57
luke-jrjavispedro: and DRM20:57
javispedroduring my briefly skim trough the irc logs I could only notice the GLES keyword.20:57
rangeBut now the display in the n800 goes kaputt and the battery isn't the best either anymore. So ship it already! Nokia!20:57
javispedro<Stskeeps>GLES for omap2 will be in few weeks from TI20:58
* javispedro wants.20:58
wazdCool20:58
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Mouseymer suddenly got a lot more attractive21:00
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javispedroMousey: if you say that because of the transitions, well, I'll doubt they'll work. But who knows.21:02
Mousey^_^21:03
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Mouseywell i just don't know about that right-handed-centric spacebar21:03
ShadowJK3h and only 150M? what's that, 160x120? :)21:03
SpeedEvilShadowJK: mp321:04
SpeedEvil128k21:04
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ShadowJKoh, audio21:04
ShadowJKfor some reason I read "video"21:04
ShadowJKI suspect 3h-4h is about how long hte battery will last streaming audio21:05
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ShadowJKmy E70 and E75 did about that21:05
ShadowJKand N810 over wifi is similar21:05
Mouseyoh, this is probably unlikely, but will the n900 be microusb charged?21:06
javispedroit's the only way to charge it, why you ask?21:06
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rangeI like the UI team videos.21:07
Mouseyjavispedro: cuz the n810 wasn't..21:08
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Mouseyi seem to remember the EU standardizing on uUSB for charging..21:08
Mouseyanyway, that's a point in the n900's favor21:09
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rangeMousey: Well, the EU told the manufacturers to standardize on something.21:13
SpeedEvilActually, it was china21:13
rangeSo they chose µ-USB21:13
SpeedEvilchina mandated it first21:13
SpeedEviland after that, it diddn't really make sense to go with anything else.21:13
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johnsqSpeedEvil: i hope m$ and apple heared you21:13
SpeedEvil?21:14
Mouseyi for one welcome our µUSB charging overlords21:14
Mouseyespecially the OTG types21:14
johnsqSpeedEvil: they don't like standards21:14
javispedroof which the N900 isn't.21:14
Mouseyn900 isn't OTG?21:14
ShadowJKN900 has that other µUSB port21:14
ShadowJKno it isn't21:14
Mouseygah!!21:14
Mouseythat's a point against! how am i supposed to plug in an n800 to an n900??21:14
Mouseyi used to plug my external drives into my n810!21:15
Mouseyit was HANDY21:15
* Mousey tilts back towards n81021:15
ShadowJKThere were hardware bugs in omap3. It might've been possible to fix it in software in the future, but the USB Consortium doesn't allow you to ship OTG hardware without software support, so Nokia had to use the non-OTG port21:15
javispedroit has no mms, no universal portrait mode support, etc. etc.21:15
javispedrodidn't you get the memo?21:15
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: How do you keep your sanity when using osso-games-startup? It's so heavily oriented against <insert INDT/shipped game here> with its hardcoding of values...21:16
javispedroqwerty12_N810: you removed the last part of my sanity yesterday when telling me those horrible stories about your palm .21:16
javispedroanyway, just plain curiosity, what are you doing? :D21:17
javispedroqwerty12_N810: also, at least they don't use a GtkFixed for the whole dialog anymore... :P21:17
qwerty12_N810javispedro: I'm a stickler for being able to open files from the File manager, and seeing how osso-games-startup handles it...21:18
javispedroah, good stuff. I'll need to read on that to handle opening of rom files.21:19
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javispedroI wonder if you can do a horrible hack and pop msgs from the dbus connection before osso-games-startup gets to it.21:20
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javispedrobecause I guess opening files in maemo is done through d-bus (never read about it)21:21
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: Wanna hear the sad thing? Because the handler is in osso-games-startup with its hardcoded values, saves the filename to /apps/osso/chess/save_file...21:23
javispedroah, it even has code already for that? even more fun.21:23
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javispedroqwerty12_N810: apart from the evident race conditions, any reason you can just read the filename from that key?21:25
javispedros/can/cant21:25
wazdhttp://www.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/nokia_maemo_6_1-540x327.jpg <-- eeeeeh21:25
* GeneralAntilles gets depressed watching the UMPC Portal unboxing.21:25
* javispedro notices "Zelda" icon.21:26
* solarion beats his head against a well21:26
solarionwall, even21:26
solarionhow is floating point handled on the n810?21:27
javispedrosolarion: by default, softfp.21:27
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Not sure how that key relates to Chess itself (can it be unset easily?) and you also need to be watching the key, too, for the times when DrNokSnes is open21:27
Mouseywill the n900 have an accelerometer?21:27
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javispedroqwerty12_N810: you're doing that for DrNokSnes? heh :)21:28
wazdthat's kinda lame concept imo :)21:28
javispedroMousey: it has one.21:28
javispedrowazd: continue reading right until the part where it says it'll have a capacitive screen :)21:28
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Oh, yeah, sorry, it's awesome and I lack the ability to do anything of my own :)21:28
solarionjavispedro: but it should at least execute it?21:28
* solarion 's app is crashing with floating point exception21:29
javispedrosolarion: execute what? gcc will emit softfp calls for floating point operations.21:29
wazdjavispedro: no, seriously, desktop as one big mess of something is bad :)21:29
javispedrosolarion: probably your fault unless you're doing something weird.21:29
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Doing this for Transmission was somewhat easier when I could attach my own handler. It's the same thing with CDBS; I hate anything that takes away control from me :)21:29
Mouseyooo21:29
solarionjavispedro: it works on the my laptop's metal21:30
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javispedrowell, solarion, gdb it.21:30
solarionis what I'm working on21:31
javispedroqwerty12_N810: i'd give it a try but I'm a bit busy this weekend. Well, kinda. I should be doing the backgrounds web app...21:31
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solarionas long as I know it's my problem, that simplifies things enormously. :)21:31
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Yeah, I'll have a crack, submit my efforts to you and hope a future release has a sane way of doing it :)21:31
javispedrohehe. Thanks!21:32
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solarionjavispedro: is the gdb tutorial at http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/sdk-plus-debugging-guide.html up to date?21:33
* solarion isn't finding some of the commands listed21:33
javispedrosorry, up so far I've only debugged in device.21:34
solarionah21:34
solarionis on-device easier?21:34
javispedroat least for me. But I mount the src code folder using NFS.21:35
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javispedrobtw solarion, if you're doing a lot of FP in n8x0, pass -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp to gcc call.21:35
javispedrothat will use the VFP coprocessor, and it's faster for most operations in n8x0.21:35
solarionthat's a good idea for home (I'm on a busy wifi network on campus)21:35
solarionwhat is VFP?21:35
javispedrohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#VFP21:36
javispedro~VFP21:36
* solarion has thought about using the DSP, but that's yet another thing to learn21:36
javispedroVFP is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#VFP21:36
javispedroinfobot: VFP is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#VFP21:36
infobotokay, javispedro21:36
solarionjavispedro: do you work for nokia?21:37
javispedronope.21:37
solarionjust know a ton, eh? :)21:37
javispedroknow my things, not a ton :)21:37
GeneralAntillesLot of the people here know more than most Nokians. :P21:37
solarionheh21:38
solarionso the n810 has a VFP?21:38
qwerty12_N810javispedro: If you wanna test the mime_open behaviour of o-g-s: http://qwerty12.qole.org/mimeopentestdnk (Built under Fremantle ARMEL, works on Diablo)21:38
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javispedrosolarion: yes. and don't ask me why only few components in the device base image use it.21:38
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solarionI could fix that problem. :)21:38
solarionmuch eaiser to tell gcc to use it than try to figure out the dsp gateway21:39
qwerty12_N810javispedro: argv[1] is a path to a file. Notice how it gets set in GConf :)21:39
solarioncell is enough fun for now. :)21:39
wazdno skype video?! Are they idiots? :)21:39
solarionGeneralAntilles: are you familiar with ARMEL target qemu debugging?21:39
* GeneralAntilles points anywhere but here.21:39
javispedroaw, tablet out of battery :(21:39
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solarionheh, k21:40
solarionthe n810 doesn't charge over usb, does it?21:41
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wjs_ltopno21:41
solarionis too bad21:41
solarionmaybe I should file a bug on it. :)21:41
solarioncharger at home, usb at work, would be nice21:41
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wjs_ltopare the MMX instructions supported too?21:41
javispedroMMX instructions? this is an ARM.21:41
GeneralAntillessolarion, N900 charges over USB.21:41
solarionwjs_ltop: ARM has MMX?21:41
luke-jrlol21:42
wjs_ltopLook at the page javispedro referenced..21:42
wjs_ltopiwMMXt21:42
javispedrowjs_ltop: my old Palm supported that.21:42
javispedroit's Intel/Marvell XScale only.21:42
javispedroand it only does integer ops.21:42
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solarionGeneralAntilles: dangit21:42
wjs_ltopah, so not the AMD enhancements21:42
* solarion has little hope to get one21:43
luke-jrjavispedro: I wonder if the Sheeva supports it?21:43
GeneralAntillessolarion, Nokia sells a USB adaptor, anyway.21:43
wjs_ltoporiginal MMX21:43
javispedroluke-jr: dunno, sorry.21:43
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solarionI suspect for hardcore fp, the dsp would be the way to go21:43
suihkulokkiwjs_ltop: there are NEON extensions for ARM that N900 support21:43
solarionor offload it to another box21:43
wjs_ltopI've seen cables that will split a power connector off a usb cable.21:43
wjs_ltopNEON was added in the Cortex A8, right?21:44
javispedroyes, N900.21:45
wjs_ltopyes, just double checked.. NEON and ThumbEE is not on the ARM11 in the N81021:45
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javispedroon the other side, VFP and Jazelle were dumbed down.21:45
wjs_ltopStuck with the never documented Jazelle21:45
solarionaww21:45
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iDialektMAaaaaaaaaeeeemmmmo21:46
wjs_ltopThat's because the ThumbEE takes over most of the Jazelle functions from what I've read.21:46
iDialektIt makes me feel like dancin21:46
javispedroactually, not necessarily.21:46
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javispedroJazelle is suited for interpreters, ThumbEE for JIT compilers.21:47
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wjs_ltopAnybody here know if the stuff that QGil is working on with TI will include IVA access, Jazelle, as well as the MBX?21:47
javispedrowjs_ltop: I'd wish.21:48
wjs_ltopI think it was QGil and not Qole21:48
javispedroAs for Jazelle, I have it somewhat working.21:48
wjs_ltophmm??21:48
javispedrogot it to run most of the simple java opcodes.21:48
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slonopotamusjavispedro, how?21:48
solarionhmm. the debugging evironment seems to not have access to the network. :(21:49
javispedroslonopotamus: I even published some source code.21:49
GeneralAntillesHe's got a couple of TI engineers chained up in his basement.21:49
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javispedroI just continued on lardman's work.21:49
slonopotamusGeneralAntilles, ah, that's what i thought21:49
javispedrohttp://svn.javispedro.com/view/jaz/trunk/jaz.s21:50
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slonopotamusactually that doesn't matter21:50
javispedroagreed.21:50
slonopotamusjava is too memory-hungry21:50
slonopotamusbelieve me, i'm java developer21:50
javispedroI do.21:50
javispedrohowever, that's why I liked jazelle.21:51
javispedroan interpreter should use a bit less memory,21:51
javispedrowhile jazelle "promised" fast interpreters.21:51
qwerty12_N810slonopotamus: Some, but not me, would call you a traitor ;P21:51
johnsqslonopotamus: icu 4.0.1 compiled,l webkit compile run out of space21:51
javispedrobut not worth the effort, at least with the jamvm I tried.21:51
wjs_ltopAny chance of integrating into the Redhat OpenJDK?21:51
slonopotamusjohnsq, qt-webkit on device?21:51
javispedrowjs_ltop: not by me.21:51
johnsqslonopotamus: normal webkit, for midori21:52
slonopotamusjohnsq, build in qemu. 128mb isn't good for gcc + c++21:52
Mouseyis the n900 ipv6 compliant?21:52
luke-jr...21:53
Mouseys/n900/maemo/21:53
infobotMousey meant: is the maemo ipv6 compliant?21:53
qoleat the amsterdam maemo party!21:53
slonopotamusMousey, if you build ipv6 support in kernel, yes21:53
johnsqslonopotamus: i will see added more swap21:53
Mouseyk21:53
luke-jrmy N810 has IPv621:53
javispedroqole heh, enjoy :)21:53
slonopotamusjohnsq, no. luke tried21:53
luke-jr64 bytes from 2002:62b3:1d4c:0:21d:6eff:fed5:9425: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=2.41 ms21:53
Mouseyty21:53
wnddiablo has ipv6 out of the box, you just need to enable it21:54
fralsqole: go around whisper "mms..." to everyone, ok? ;)21:54
javispedroqwerty12_N810: sorry, how I'm supposed to use mimeopentestdnk?21:54
slonopotamusjohnsq, it gets rebooted under high swap usage 'cause wd doesn't get kicked fast enough21:54
javispedroI've run it and it does not seem to spawn/activate osso-games-startup21:54
qoleheheheh21:54
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Hmm, odd, you do have DrNokSnes installed? :p21:55
luke-jrjohnsq: midori/gtk ftl21:55
qolei am the dealbreaker!21:55
frals:D21:55
qwerty12_N810javispedro: It brings up DrNokSnes on both the N810 and N900 here21:55
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slonopotamusqwerty12_N810, traitor? why?21:56
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javispedroanyone remember the syntax for dbus-monitor everything out of head?21:56
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: Oh, and argv[1] should be a path to a file :)21:56
johnsqluke-jr: ftl?21:56
luke-jrjohnsq: FOR THE LOSE21:56
javispedroqwerty12_N810: ah, that may explain it lol.21:56
luke-jrjohnsq: you can use my webkit binpkg, but it requires KDE :p21:57
qwerty12_N810slonopotamus: You calling Java slow and saying to trust you because you're a Java dev :D21:57
johnsqluke-jr: ok. no thanks21:57
luke-jrjohnsq: if you want, I can try to build you one in my chroot if it doesn't have too many deps21:57
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slonopotamusqwerty12_N810, i didn't say it's slow21:58
johnsqluke-jr: i need only remove the sd card and put it in the laptop.21:58
luke-jrjohnsq: lol21:58
luke-jrjohnsq: I don't like to shutdown ;)21:58
qwerty12_N810slonopotamus: Erm, yeah, you didn't. Sorry, that's my thinking...21:58
solarionman, I just need gdb working, but it's not. :(21:58
luke-jrand my N810 is pretty much my only SD reader21:59
luke-jrwell, N810, C760, and A63021:59
slonopotamusqwerty12_N810, it's just ~3-4 times slower than C if coded properly. but memory usage...21:59
javispedrosolarion: enable sdk repo on device, pull gdb (NOTHING MORE), disable sdk repo.21:59
johnsqluke-jr: i have got the hame micro sdhc card reader and use it as micro usb stick.21:59
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ShadowJKhm22:00
solarionjavispedro: yeah; I'm gonna have ot use the device, I guess22:00
solarionwill suck for n900 dev, tho22:00
Firebirdhttp://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3876/wthf.png , any ideas [on the unthemedness]?22:00
ShadowJKI have this in my startup scripts:22:00
slonopotamusjohnsq, setup separate qemu chroot and build binpkgs there22:00
javispedroFirebird: missing run-standalone.sh?22:00
ShadowJKecho 8 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests22:00
ShadowJK(and for mmcblk1)22:00
ShadowJKWhen I made it, it was on the theory that reducing queue size should make it more interactive so that the watchdog gets kicked often enough22:01
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Firebirdjavispedro, ah, I thought I had that >_>, thanks22:01
johnsqslonopotamus: why, i just mount the sdhc card per nfs and compile on the pc22:01
Firebirdhildon 2.0 isn't gtk 2.16?22:01
slonopotamusFirebird, maemo gtk != gtk22:02
slonopotamus!= kde 4 :D22:02
Firebird!= windows, != a cow22:02
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slonopotamusluke-jr, emerge moo22:02
Firebirdgtk libraries should still run, just inquiring what version it is22:02
solarionwhat if we approximated the cow with a sphere?22:02
slonopotamussolarion, in vacuum?22:03
solarionslonopotamus: I dunno; what's the cow in?22:03
solariona cow in vacuum has a tendency to rapidly become mere meat22:03
slonopotamusthat's common joke here, spheric horse in vacuum22:04
johnsqShadowJK: I will try it, tnx22:04
solarionslonopotamus: where is here?22:04
Firebirdhm, seems it is 2.14, (judging from the glade-3 version 2.16 files not displaying)22:04
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slonopotamussolarion, russia. it means smth totally unrelated to reality22:04
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solarionaaah22:05
solarionslonopotamus: physics?22:05
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solarionneed to get a new ssh key22:06
javispedro".game" extension for chess games....22:06
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Firebirdwoa, a double split22:12
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javispedroheh. we start seeing weird GlibQt things.22:12
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javispedrothe "DirectUI" library (aka maemo6) requiring both Qt 4.6, Gconf, and Gstreamer.22:13
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Firebirdhm, is the maemo5 SDK supposed to be laggy and look like it lacks hardware acceleration in any sense?22:14
johnsqjavispedro: and this all for unneeded gimmicks22:14
Firebird...or is that a consequence of running it on 64bit directly22:14
javispedroFirebird: interesting. why you say that (64bit)?22:15
qwerty12_N810Firebird: They added that feature for you22:15
javispedrocause I experience some slowness too and I'm running it on 64bit.22:15
javispedroFirebird: also, do you experience the wrong colors bug?22:15
Firebirdwell, just apparently does not have hardware 3d accel22:15
Firebirdon mine at least22:15
Firebirdyea, the wrong colors bug is still there22:15
javispedrois there someone who has 100% good colors on fremantle sdk?22:16
wazdjavispedro: nope)22:16
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wazdjavispedro: I have rave party sometimes22:16
Firebirdeh, maybe scratchbox just doesn't want to use my nvidia drivers :/22:17
javispedrolol22:17
javispedroFirebird: 64bit, nvidia.22:17
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javispedrowell, for this "codebugging" season we need at least someone who has working colors...22:17
qwerty12_N810goodluckfindingthat :)22:17
javispedrobtw, first maemo  6 app: http://qt.gitorious.org/maemo-6-ui-framework/framework-technical-preview/blobs/master/examples/calculator/calculator.cpp22:17
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Firebirdaww, no mesa-utils in the SDK22:18
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* javispedro worries.22:20
javispedrohow can someone said "step 5" of a 5 step process is "throw everything we haved coded until today and start again"22:21
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Firebirdjavispedro, learn from your mistakes?22:22
javispedroI smell second-system effect instead.22:22
Firebirdplenty of programs have been re-written from scratch at high version numbers22:22
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SpeedEviljavisask OpenMoko22:24
solarionI've rewritten scdataviz entirely too much22:25
solarionthat, with lack of time, is why it's currently useless to everyone22:25
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solarionso let that be a lesson to you: perfection is much, much less improtant than JFDI22:26
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jeez_does anyone know how to disable composite from hildon, on maemo 5 ?22:26
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* Firebird would also like to know22:26
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qwerty12_N810jeez_: In one application or system-wide?22:27
jeez_both ?!22:27
qwerty12_N810Dunno how it's done system-wide22:27
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jeez_qwerty12_N810: and in one application ?22:29
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qwerty12_N810To get it disabled while a certain application is running, set the _HILDON_NON_COMPOSITED_WINDOW Atom which requests compositing to be turned off22:29
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solarionfrickin' A22:32
solarionmy app works beautifully on the tablet22:32
SpeedEvil:)22:32
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solarionmuch work to do, but it doens't crash like it does on qemu22:33
* solarion beats his chest and does a Tarzan yell and goes to forage for coffee22:33
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kirmagood God! who selected red text for this? http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture22:50
GeneralAntillesWhat's the problem?22:51
ShadowJK_seems hard to read on my monitor too22:52
javispedrothat it does not seem 80% open that way. must use a lighter font, much harder for the human eye to distinguish the closed components then ;)22:52
kirmaat least on my eyes, that red text is very hard to read on it.22:52
GeneralAntillesBigger: http://wiki.maemo.org/images/9/94/Top_level_architecture.png22:52
javispedros/lighter/darker22:52
kirmamight be better on some monitor with less intense red or something22:52
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kirmageneralantilles: better, but still, red is the color of text in that thing that requires continuous attention to comprehend22:54
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fralsanyone got any idea how to simulate an incoming sms on the sdk? :)22:58
Firebirddoes the SDK even have phone facilities?22:59
GeneralAntilleslol, Nokia can't win.23:00
GeneralAntilleshttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=342869&postcount=1023:00
fralsyeah gotta hate companies who are developing new stuff23:01
javispedroTMO is starting to burn me off lately too.23:01
GeneralAntillesThat's the big advantage to Apple's method.23:01
GeneralAntillesDon't talk about stuff that people can't buy.23:01
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till-will maemo 6 not run on the n900?23:02
GeneralAntillesFocus is never taken off what you're currently selling.23:02
fralsthe the signal:noise ratio has gone wild since i started lurking tmo :(23:02
GeneralAntillestill-, nobody really knows at this point.23:02
till-hope it will be like the n80023:02
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* Firebird wonders why SDL is under toolkit23:03
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, worse this weekend since all of the useful people are huddled together in Amsterdam laughing at us sad sacks. :(23:03
GeneralAntillesIdoicy is, sadly, increases logarithmically.23:03
GeneralAntillesIdiocy drives useful people out, so there's more idiocy so more useful people are driven out and so on.23:03
javispedroFirebird: used by blocks game. thus part of platform...23:03
Firebirdah23:04
javispedroGeneralAntilles: :(23:04
javispedroGeneralAntilles: "useful <-> politically correct" slider again :(23:04
GeneralAntillesI've been through a lot of churn periods in itT.23:04
GeneralAntillesHopefully we'll come out of the other side OK.23:04
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kirmatill-: I think what they talked of multi-touch as only major hardware feature change on direction of maemo 6 (most importantly, omap3 was being talked about even with it), so it'd seem relatively reasonable to expect maemo 6 to work on n900...23:05
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kirmaunless they start to use multitouch gestures for everything or are plain lazy. ;)23:05
GeneralAntillesCapacitive will suck at WVGA and 3.5"23:05
javispedrothat remembers me, GeneralAntilles, did you saw the capacitive screen23:05
javispedroscrap that, I see you did :)23:05
till-can't the screen be replaced? :)23:06
GeneralAntillesToo bad they aren't using the Stantum resistive multitouch.23:06
till-what about an hw-upgrade-kit :)23:06
FirebirdStantum multitouch would be nice23:06
javispedrotime to switch to another hw manufacturer when that happens....... oh, there won't be any :(23:07
kirmaI think multitouch technologies aren't trivially switchable ;)23:07
GeneralAntillesCapacitive seems like a marketdroid move.23:07
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, we'll see if they don't ship devices with both.23:07
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I hate trying to read between the lines with Nokia stuff.23:07
wazdGeneralAntilles: they have sponsored Engadget show and caught that fever :)23:07
Firebirdin fact stantum multitouch could be a PUSH project... especially with their ready made 3.5" panel - too bad there's no USB host23:07
javispedroGeneralAntilles: I doubt that, because, as you said, it seems like a marketdroid move23:07
GeneralAntilles'cause half of the conclusions you might be able to draw are just because the Nokia execs can't speak English. <_<23:07
javispedroand marketdroids dislike multiple models.23:07
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, we'll see.23:08
GeneralAntillesMultiple models is always something that Nokia people have talked about.23:08
javispedroI imagined today another model would be announced.23:08
javispedroGuess I was wrong with that prediction.23:08
SpeedEvilIt was only announced to the cabal.23:09
GeneralAntillesLike I said, laughing at us sad sacks.23:09
fralshmm, is it just me, or is this link broken? https://oucmswww.nmp.nokia.com:58443/document_browser/ccm_wa/GIF_SPECS/23:09
Firebirddid anyone ever figure out what the "surprise" in the N900 screen was? or am I imagining that there is a surprise..23:09
ShadowJK_what, the "surprise" is now in the screen?23:10
ShadowJK_when did it become the screen?23:10
FirebirdI read something on TMO, maybe I was half asleep23:10
ShadowJK_I thought it was the FM radio23:10
javispedroI think it's the ir port.23:11
ShadowJK_oh yeah, maybe that23:11
ShadowJK_is it a dedicated port or is it just abusing the proximity sensor's emitter?23:11
GeneralAntillesUgh23:12
GeneralAntilles"Maemo Extras" "http://Maemo.org Extras Testing"23:12
* GeneralAntilles hits Peter.23:12
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ShadowJK_hm?23:12
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxjfRE7GLno23:12
javispedrofrom what I know (not much) it's a CIR TX only.23:12
GeneralAntilles7:45 or so23:12
GeneralAntillesIt's a real port.23:12
GeneralAntillesIt's on the top to the right side.23:12
GeneralAntillesNext to the camera button.23:12
kirmashadowjk?23:12
Firebirdquoting from talk.maemo "At mobile-review there is a talk about Eldar talking something about N900's screen having a "surprise" with it but I just can't bring myself to believe it is "stantum technology" or something multitouch related. "23:13
kirmayou mean radio receiver would be using the proximity sensor emitter as antenna?23:13
ShadowJK_kirma, no I mean that irreco would be using the proximity sensor emitter for making TVs do weird shit23:13
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kirmaehm23:14
kirmasounds too exotic to say the least to me23:14
GeneralAntillesIt is, it's a real IR port.23:15
kirmawhat that description even means :)23:15
FirebirdGeneralAntilles, any comment on that quote?23:15
GeneralAntillesFirebird, I have no idea.23:15
javispedroonly without a receiver (i was already dreaming about getting my m130 to the internet again ;) )23:15
GeneralAntillesIt certainly behaves like a normal resistive screen.23:15
GeneralAntillesSensitivity is really good.23:15
* GeneralAntilles is so glad they handed out N900s. ;)23:16
ShadowJK_kirma, well as I understand it, the proximity sensor is basically just sending out some IR and looking for return signal anyway... I thought it'd been a cool hack if the emitter was modulated at 38kHz so you could bitbang some remote control into it from software :-)23:16
javispedrowithout NDAs. Wonder who will publish the first benchmark ;)23:16
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ShadowJK_There's one problem I battle with in getting an N900...23:17
GeneralAntillesShadowJK_, I'm sure somebody could do it.23:17
kirmaI thought proximity sensor is simply similar to capacitive "buttons"23:17
Firebirdwell, it certainly can't be a stantum touch surface, as the screen vectors23:17
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GeneralAntilleskirma, no, it's like those dbeams you get on some synths and keyboards.23:17
ShadowJK_I know I'll be spending so much time hacking/breaking it, that it probably wont even work as phone most of the time...23:17
GeneralAntillesIt's an IR emitter and a receiver.23:17
kirmathought there's entirely separate IR part...23:18
kirmabut well. it's pretty irrelevant as long as it does what it claims23:19
ShadowJK_so it'd seem the device actually has two IR emitters then? :)23:19
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ShadowJK_One for proximity sensor and one for irreco23:19
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ShadowJK_I wonder if it can receive too?23:19
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SpeedEvilthe camera can prolly pick up IR23:22
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ShadowJK_Supposedly someone talked about capacitive multitouch at summit?23:24
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ShadowJK_SpeedEvil, camera has only like 30fps though at best?23:24
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ShadowJK_I hope they can get it as accurate as current screens :(23:27
SpeedEvilShadowJK_: it may well be possible to set it for faster - with a smaller frame23:27
SpeedEvilShadowJK_: however - this is based solely on datasheets of similar imagers23:27
ShadowJK_you'd need something like 60023:28
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SpeedEvilyeah23:31
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SpeedEvilIn principle, you could get more if you jam it up to the lens - then you get 1/rollingshutterwidth23:31
SpeedEvilbut...23:31
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javispedrowhat about the proximity sensor ir receiver? ;)23:31
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SpeedEvilI can't meaningfully speculate on that.23:35
SpeedEvilThe camera, I have read lots of datasheets on broadly similar ones.23:35
SpeedEvilat least the little camera23:35
javispedroI guess it can capture nowhere near the required speeds.23:36
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javispedros/can/cant23:36
javispedroI'm thinking IrDA, not consumer IR.23:36
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SpeedEvilCIR probably will generally require something that can do over 1KHz or so23:37
SpeedEvilThen again, you only need one remote to copy23:37
SpeedEviland anyone else can download it23:37
javispedrothere's already the remote database, that use case is covered.23:38
Stskeepsmooo23:39
javispedrohello Stskeeps, how did things go?23:39
Stskeepsgood23:39
Stskeepsa great day23:39
wazdStskeeps: drunk? :D23:39
Stskeepsnot much23:40
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Stskeepshappy about gl drivers and n90023:42
wazdStskeeps: yeah, drivers are promissing23:43
javispedro:)23:43
javispedrogot any info apart from the "estimate" schedule (of course that's good enough!!) :)23:43
javispedro?23:43
Stskeeps2 weeks23:44
javispedro2 weeks only?23:44
javispedroO.o23:44
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Stskeepsi was surprised too23:45
qwerty12_N8102 weeks?! For that, Stskeeps, I'll milk a cow of your choice and turn it into beer23:45
wazdIt's like "Oh yes, drivers were released yesterday" :)23:45
javispedroqwerty12_N810++23:45
Stskeepsand they tested on the devices already23:45
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qwerty12_N810But, anyway, hey Stskeeps, how's the Summit going?23:46
Stskeepsgreat imho23:47
ShadowJK_any details whether they're stuck on .21 or have opensource wrapper-type thing?23:47
Stskeepsopen source kernel driver23:48
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Stskeepsi just wonder how many people will contribute to mer now that god and everyone has a n90023:51
SmackPotatwhats with maemo 623:52
SmackPotatwhat hardware23:52
Stskeepsno clue23:52
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javispedroStskeeps: same answer as question "what are n810 3d drivers for" I guess.23:54
SmackPotatwhere23:55
SmackPotatmakebelieve23:55
javispedrowerewolve.23:56
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