| Khertan | thurday ? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lbt | when are you arriving | 00:00 |
| lbt | studen2: what devices? | 00:00 |
| Khertan | friday in the morning | 00:00 |
| lbt | aww | 00:00 |
| lbt | you'll miss the party | 00:01 |
| Khertan | 20:00 Maemo Party in FlexBar DJ's Russ Chimes & Grum (check the mixtapes!) visuals by Xploitec VJ's. coordinated by Jussi Mäkinen. It's a public bar and the doors are open to anybody. Our program will go until 23h or so, but the bar is open until really late with good music. Special cocktail hour sponsored by the lovely Skype people. Don't forget the Saturday schedule, though. :) | 00:01 |
| studen2 | lbt: I bought this cable to use for my 1208 contacts backup, now i'm stucked finding the driver for it | 00:01 |
| Khertan | i think it was friday | 00:01 |
| lbt | studen2: on a Windows PC | 00:01 |
| studen2 | the included cd is not helping doing anything | 00:01 |
| studen2 | yes windows XP SP2 | 00:02 |
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| Khertan | lbt: the party is friday not thursday | 00:02 |
| lbt | studen2: this is a linux/maemo dev channel :) | 00:02 |
| Khertan | or maybe not an official one ? | 00:02 |
| studen2 | well i didn't know that however i still assume linux guys can help a lot indeed | 00:03 |
| lbt | Khertan: nah, just an early arrivers one | 00:03 |
| Khertan | hum ... ok | 00:03 |
| studen2 | yes khertan the cable is not nokia genuine | 00:03 |
| lbt | studen2: sure... just saying it's not the most likely chan to get help ... good luck :) | 00:03 |
| Stskeeps | oh dear | 00:03 |
| Stskeeps | i think i just made talk.maemo.org errupt in anger | 00:03 |
| Khertan | hum ... i think i should plan my travel from airport to the summit | 00:04 |
| javispedro | stylus keyboard!!! | 00:04 |
| javispedro | what did you do to him!!!!!!!!! | 00:04 |
| luke-jr_ | studen2: we might be able to help on Linux, if you could be helped | 00:04 |
| javispedro | you killed the stylus keyboard! | 00:04 |
| javispedro | ;) | 00:04 |
| luke-jr_ | but as someone here told you last night, your cable is just a cable | 00:04 |
| luke-jr_ | it doesn't have/need/use drivers | 00:04 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: please beat up the guy who removed the support for thumb keyboards. either way, what about a full screen stylus kbd? | 00:05 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: +1 | 00:05 |
| rdorsch | johnsq: I recreated the fs (mkfs.vfat) and I repartitioned the card. | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | err | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | for stylus keyboards | 00:05 |
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| rdorsch | both did not help. | 00:05 |
| rdorsch | The n810 still crashes, but in a cardreader I do not see a problem with the card. | 00:05 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: i'll miss it, but i read it that they basically removed the h-i-m windows thus any plugin will need a bit of hard work to port | 00:05 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: what thread? | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: fremantle ui really does not lend itself to stylus keyboard.. | 00:05 |
| johnsq | rdorsch: looks like hardware failure, you can still try some other cards. | 00:06 |
| Stskeeps | at least the one that squeezes everything | 00:06 |
| javispedro | yeah... | 00:06 |
| studen2 | yes luke they did BUT i told him i get an unknown driver installation dialog pops up every time i hook up the cable | 00:06 |
| Stskeeps | neither does diablo ui, but so it goes | 00:06 |
| javispedro | ah well. | 00:06 |
| javispedro | well, on diablo is usable at least. | 00:06 |
| javispedro | on fremantle probably the modest compose email textfield won't fit. | 00:06 |
| Jaffa | re | 00:07 |
| studen2 | and i've demostrated genuine nokia ca-53 drivers | 00:07 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: seriously though, what about fullscreen stylus keyboard? | 00:07 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: I don't see usecase for that vs the usual finger one. | 00:07 |
| javispedro | well | 00:07 |
| javispedro | other than extra keys and no tabs, which would be nice. | 00:07 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: only usecase i see a problem in is xterm | 00:08 |
| rdorsch | johnsq: can I get more debug/diagnosis output from the N810? | 00:08 |
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| javispedro | xterm also bends itself well for a partial-window stylus-keyb | 00:09 |
| johnsq | rdorsch: dmesg, and do dd if=/mmcblk(0 or 1) of=/dev/null than you can see if it happens while read. | 00:10 |
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| johnsq | rdorsch: badblocks don't know if available on normal device can search bad blocks. | 00:11 |
| studen2 | so what do you guys think about a cable that pops a "Welcome to the Found New Hardware Wizard"? | 00:12 |
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| javispedro | studen2: a cable is a cable. won't it be the device on the other side of the cable the one "requiring drivers"? | 00:13 |
| * javispedro watches that maemo idiot fan-site out of pure Schadenfreude | 00:15 | |
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| * GeneralAntilles wonders when segphault's new article will be out. | 00:16 | |
| RST38h | javis: He is trying to use a usb-to-rs232 cable to talk to a dumb phone | 00:16 |
| RST38h | javis: He has got some no-name cable that is SUPPOSED to be CA-50 replacement. For some reason he can't use drivers that came on the cd | 00:16 |
| javispedro | a, *that* cable. | 00:16 |
| javispedro | well, they're pretty generic. | 00:17 |
| RST38h | Yes, the chipset is made by some UK firm whose name starts with F | 00:17 |
| * RST38h no longer remembers | 00:17 | |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Any joy on the passport or is it now lost in a Kafkaesque nightmare | 00:17 |
| javispedro | ftdi? | 00:17 |
| javispedro | there are quite a few, not only that one. | 00:17 |
| javispedro | but still less than a dozen. | 00:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | no touchbook | 00:18 |
| javispedro | so it's just a job of getting the vid & pid and googling. | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, no joy, I got a shipment notification this morning and started making plans to make sure I had my hands on it by tomorrow morning. Turns out they didn't ship it overnight like I paid for and decided to screw me over instead. | 00:18 |
| RST38h | javis: FTDI indeed | 00:19 |
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| * RST38h usually gets FTDI, then suffers from it | 00:19 | |
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| javispedro | they had generic drivers back when I cared. | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | On the subject of FTDI. | 00:20 |
| Tadthebuilder | hey all | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | has anyone used the FT2232? The USB2 FIFO chip | 00:20 |
| javispedro | in fact I got my m130 to sync in xp64 by using the ftdi driver ;) | 00:20 |
| javispedro | (the palm m130 pda) | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | oops | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | mischan | 00:20 |
| RST38h | javis: They kill Windows wakeup | 00:20 |
| Tadthebuilder | I have an app Idea that I think could be awesome for the right people.... | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | 'I am rich' ? | 00:21 |
| RST38h | javis: Not any more, I guess (hope?), but they did | 00:21 |
| javispedro | RST38h: lol. well, half the windows drivers do that either way... | 00:21 |
| RST38h | Tadthebulder: Cool! Go code it! | 00:21 |
| Tadthebuilder | haha | 00:21 |
| Tadthebuilder | actually im wondering if its possible | 00:21 |
| Tadthebuilder | and then I might try... | 00:21 |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 00:21 | |
| Tadthebuilder | essentially it would take a subset | 00:22 |
| Tadthebuilder | (group) | 00:22 |
| Tadthebuilder | of contact and record the time spent conversing with each of those specific contacts in a easily viewed | 00:22 |
| Tadthebuilder | contacts* | 00:23 |
| Tadthebuilder | database | 00:23 |
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| Tadthebuilder | thus for someone who needs to record the time spent conversing with clients or what not for tax/boss purposes would be greatly assisted | 00:23 |
| RST38h | Possible. Go code it. | 00:23 |
| Tadthebuilder | well first ill need to learn to code | 00:24 |
| Tadthebuilder | by the time I finish that the n2000 will be out | 00:24 |
| Tadthebuilder | :) | 00:24 |
| jrocha | hey guys, does anyone know a python app that is already ported to fremantle so I can try it on the new SDK? | 00:24 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: And it's not just a reporting problem? Have they confirmed it has been shipped the slow way? | 00:24 |
| Jaffa | jrocha: Hermes is Python. As is Attitude. | 00:24 |
| Jaffa | gPodder too. | 00:25 |
| Jaffa | All of them are in extras-testing or extras-devel | 00:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, yes, the tracking number confirms it and talking with USPS people confirms it. | 00:25 |
| jrocha | nice, thank you Jaffa | 00:25 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Arseburgers. | 00:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, indeed. | 00:25 |
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| Khertan | snif ... my sdk is scratched | 00:25 |
| Khertan | : | 00:25 |
| Khertan | :( | 00:25 |
| RST38h | Like anybody doubted that.... | 00:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Emailed Quim this morning. Cancelled my tickets (hopefully they get something back :/) and opened up my slot. | 00:26 |
| jeremiah | arse? burgers? | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully I have something to bank on to get me there next year. :/ | 00:26 |
| * GeneralAntilles sighs. | 00:26 | |
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| RST38h | On the other hand, just to keep you from believing into free enterprise, FedEx once *lost* my pasport | 00:26 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: oh shit - that sucks | 00:26 |
| Stskeeps | can one of the talk.* moderators move the posts into a different thread as i ask in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=340676&postcount=16 ? :P | 00:27 |
| RST38h | Lost the passport, the visa, and the airplane tickets. | 00:27 |
| rdorsch | johnsq: how would I use dmesg if the device simply crashes (=reboots) when the problem occurs? | 00:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, I've had more than enough bad experiences with shipping companies to know that you get what you pay for. ;) | 00:27 |
| Honeyman | Are there any ideas/news/rumours on PyQT for freemantle? | 00:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | If we wanted fast, friendly, reliable shipping services we'd have to be a lot less cheap. | 00:27 |
| RST38h | General: Hey, I paid premium rate, got the tracking number, waited for a week, getting more and more nervous | 00:28 |
| RST38h | General: Called them a few times, they marinated me between answering machines, then finally told me they can't track it | 00:28 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: explode and you got only 1 and half page of posts? baaah, noob ;) | 00:28 |
| johnsq | rdorsch: sorry no idea, than try some other card to see if it is the device or card. | 00:29 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: i should have mentioned something about clubbing gnus too. | 00:29 |
| * javispedro ponders how many "revelations" left still exist that could potentially unleash hundred page posts.... | 00:29 | |
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| clmntch_ | j0 | 00:30 |
| RST38h | ok, sleep | 00:30 |
| javispedro | bye RST38h | 00:30 |
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| wazd | Cya | 00:30 |
| rdorsch | johnsq: thanks. | 00:30 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Did you know that Mameo 5 doesn't support portrait mode! | 00:31 |
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| johnsq | rdorsch: sorry, but didn't sound good for the device | 00:31 |
| javispedro | aaaaaaaaargh to Maemo typo again! | 00:31 |
| javispedro | Maemo. | 00:31 |
| javispedro | Maemo | 00:31 |
| javispedro | Mae | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, and it's not capacitive! | 00:31 |
| wazd | Jaffa: noway?! | 00:31 |
| Tadthebuilder | mameo would be a pretty cool name though | 00:31 |
| javispedro | I'm sick. I can't even mispell Maemo properly!! | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, I also hear it runs on kittens! | 00:31 |
| javispedro | Meam | 00:32 |
| range | Dealbreaker. | 00:32 |
| rdorsch | johnsq: not a problem, it still has warranty. | 00:32 |
| Jaffa | Absolutely. | 00:32 |
| Tadthebuilder | I heard that kitten skins were used to make the screen actually | 00:32 |
| range | Puppies, yeah. But kittens? | 00:32 |
| Jaffa | I don't understand how Nokia could be so stupid as to do this! It's a dealbreaker for me and *everyone* I know. | 00:32 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: no wai!!! | 00:32 |
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| Honeyman | Pyqt page seems a bit sleepy... | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | range, I'm pretty sure Quim spits on them before they're processed, too. | 00:32 |
| javispedro | it doesn't come with a Super Mario World wallpapear!! ----> I'm not buying. | 00:33 |
| Khertan | Estimated Fare using meter at 08:40 Distance: 16.66 km. | Duration: 22 min. first 2000 meters 7.50 € 14.66 km. x 2.20 € per km 32.27 € Total 39.77 € | 00:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh but it does! | 00:33 |
| Khertan | OMG ! | 00:33 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: Huh? | 00:33 |
| Khertan | taxi is expensive at Amsterdamn | 00:33 |
| * GeneralAntilles loves the Super Mario wallpaper. | 00:33 | |
| Khertan | ! | 00:33 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: The Mario World one? | 00:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan, airport to hotel? | 00:33 |
| Tadthebuilder | the Mario world wallpaper is awesome | 00:33 |
| zerojay | I just saw it earlier today. I'm using SMB1 wallpaper. ;) | 00:33 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: pretty cool indeed. Built it into the device bootloader so it can't be reflashed out! | 00:33 |
| Khertan | airport to WesterGasFabriek | 00:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan, the train is, like, €3.60. You need to get off at Central station which is about a block from the hotel. | 00:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah | 00:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, you could take the train and then a bus. | 00:34 |
| wazd | I love mine wallpaper, all other suck!!111) | 00:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or the train and a taxi, I suppose. | 00:34 |
| Khertan | yep ... i ll do that | 00:34 |
| Khertan | train then bus | 00:34 |
| Khertan | just surprize by the price | 00:34 |
| * javispedro notices he could reveal all those "revelations" into a idiot maemo fanboy forum whose members still don't know "it's not exactly like symbian".... | 00:35 | |
| javispedro | *grin* | 00:35 |
| Tadthebuilder | do it | 00:35 |
| javispedro | it's not capacitive! only the phone works in portrait! no stylus keyboard! no mms! | 00:35 |
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| Khertan | GeneralAntilles: did you know how time it s take to go to the Central station ? | 00:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan, think it's about 20 minutes. | 00:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe less | 00:36 |
| Khertan | hum ... not so bad | 00:36 |
| * GeneralAntilles sighs again. | 00:36 | |
| Khertan | ok | 00:36 |
| Khertan | taxi seems to be 16min :) | 00:36 |
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| Khertan | as i'm arriving Friday at 8h40 | 00:36 |
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| Stskeeps | and 50 eur or something equally insane | 00:37 |
| Tadthebuilder | you know whats disappointing me? | 00:37 |
| Tadthebuilder | everything | 00:37 |
| javispedro | Tadthebuilder: dealbreaker! not buying? | 00:37 |
| *** df00z has left #maemo | 00:37 | |
| Tadthebuilder | exactly | 00:37 |
| Tadthebuilder | the fact that linux is evil and its based on linux is a deal breaker!!!! | 00:37 |
| Tadthebuilder | how dare they open the source!! | 00:38 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders Manic Miner wallpaper. | 00:38 | |
| GeneralAntilles | They're all just justifying not being able to afford it. :P | 00:38 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles++ | 00:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | personally I just say im not going to be able to afford it :) | 00:38 |
| Jaffa | FFS. "Media format not supported". I'd hoped I'd seen the last of that damned thing. | 00:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody needs to put together the pano source package template. | 00:39 |
| * GeneralAntilles nominates javispedro. | 00:39 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, h.264 support seems . . . limited. | 00:39 |
| * javispedro packs stuff and hides in alaska | 00:39 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Muahaha! I know people in Alaska. No hiding there! | 00:40 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: This is bog-standard MPEG-4/DivX | 00:40 |
| Jaffa | 1024x760. 5 fps. No audio. | 00:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, interesting. | 00:41 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: does it work in PC gstreamer? | 00:41 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: It works in totem yeah | 00:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've had great luck with $RANDOM source minus fansubs. | 00:41 |
| Jaffa | No probs. Looked really good. | 00:41 |
| javispedro | :S | 00:41 |
| Jaffa | Yay, my video's on my device so I can practice on the pllane at least. | 00:41 |
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| * javispedro goes to play with the nokia-apps in the SDK. and drool. | 00:42 | |
| Jaffa | It looks like it's running Eclipse. Teehee | 00:42 |
| zerojay | Oh, the Nokia apps are in the SDK now? | 00:42 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: yup | 00:42 |
| javispedro | zerojay: didn't you get the memo? :) | 00:42 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Fancy trying Hermes in the SDK, now it's got Contacts? :-) | 00:43 |
| zerojay | lol... too busy on the actual device. ;P | 00:43 |
| * Jaffa ponders building the pure-Python version. | 00:43 | |
| javispedro | damn conspirators :( | 00:43 |
| javispedro | zerojay: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK/Discover_Maemo_5 | 00:43 |
| javispedro | everything shown there is on sdk | 00:43 |
| javispedro | I wonder why Nokia did that.... | 00:44 |
| javispedro | but pretty cool either way and way above what I expected :) | 00:44 |
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| Khertan | oh ... i ve miss too the final sdk news ! | 00:45 |
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| Khertan | apt get dist-upgrade failed | 00:47 |
| Khertan | grrr | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, gstreamer packages cause trouble. | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Have to start over, apparently. | 00:47 |
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| javispedro | yeah, and also there's new hacks for /home/user and /opt. | 00:48 |
| Khertan | fuck ! | 00:48 |
| Khertan | /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory | 00:48 |
| Tadthebuilder | http://www.churchdb.org/ would it be possible to set that up an lamp server the n800? | 00:48 |
| Khertan | Tadthebuilder: of course ... but nginx is recommended | 00:48 |
| Khertan | with php5 | 00:48 |
| Tadthebuilder | not sure what that is? | 00:48 |
| Tadthebuilder | ive set up a lamp server before | 00:49 |
| Tadthebuilder | on my ubuntu desktop | 00:49 |
| jeremiah | nginx is a web server | 00:49 |
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| Khertan | nginx ... an other http server | 00:49 |
| Tadthebuilder | ah okay | 00:49 |
| jeremiah | like apache, but with less documentation P | 00:49 |
| Khertan | use less memory than apache | 00:49 |
| Tadthebuilder | i really just need something to track visitation recording....that might be a bit over kill... | 00:49 |
| jeremiah | Khertan: Well, it does much less too | 00:49 |
| zerojay | Hmm... would anyone be interested in a NES Metroid wallpaper? | 00:49 |
| Khertan | is fastest ... but magement of multi connection is worse | 00:49 |
| Khertan | jeremiah: of course | 00:50 |
| Khertan | Tadthebuilder: so apache is overkill | 00:50 |
| Khertan | ;) | 00:50 |
| Khertan | use nginx | 00:50 |
| * Tadthebuilder thinks maybe I should over a bounty | 00:50 | |
| Tadthebuilder | well | 00:50 |
| Tadthebuilder | i think both might be over kill | 00:50 |
| Tadthebuilder | ... | 00:50 |
| jeremiah | There is lighttpd too | 00:50 |
| Tadthebuilder | like how hard would it be to have a contact like program where you can click the person name and record when you talked to them? | 00:50 |
| Khertan | or python :) | 00:50 |
| jeremiah | Though I don't know if anyone has ported that to maemo | 00:50 |
| Tadthebuilder | and then view all those meetings in a list | 00:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, anything retro gaming I'll go for. :P | 00:51 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: You got it. | 00:51 |
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| Khertan | so no way to upgrade the beta sdk to final sdk ? | 00:51 |
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| Tadthebuilder | ill send whoever makes above mentioned program for the n800 35 USD | 00:53 |
| Khertan | it will be difficult as n800 isn't a phone | 00:54 |
| Khertan | :) | 00:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | the other program | 00:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | i will type in the data | 00:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | just have like a database of contacts | 00:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | that I can click on and add information concerning what and how and when I contacted that person | 00:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | so that I have a list for each person | 00:55 |
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| Jaffa | fatal^: Vala 0.7.7 is in Diablo extras-devel and going through autobuilder for fremantle. | 00:55 |
| Tadthebuilder | (I know the n800 is not a phone I have one for two years and I love it) | 00:55 |
| * Khertan is fighting with his SDK ... | 00:56 | |
| Khertan | nice loop ... dpkg pre install script require dpkg | 00:56 |
| Khertan | grrr | 00:56 |
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| Khertan | shit ... i take more time trying to make that sdk working that using it to dev | 01:00 |
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| Khertan | grrrr will simply rm it ... ! | 01:01 |
| Khertan | good night | 01:01 |
| Khertan | bye | 01:01 |
| javispedro | by | 01:03 |
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| * javispedro loves the "Write message" [sic] HildonBanner while trying to send an empty message in SMS app. | 01:04 | |
| javispedro | is that a new writing style? : | 01:04 |
| javispedro | :D | 01:04 |
| javispedro | not to mention the "Add recipient" counterpart message... | 01:05 |
| Tadthebuilder | http://civicrm.org/ how difficult would a port of that be? | 01:05 |
| zerojay | ... yeaaaah. | 01:05 |
| zerojay | It's stuff like that which is making me push for community translation. | 01:06 |
| zerojay | Which... well... kind of already happens a little bit. | 01:06 |
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| Tadthebuilder | what is that from? | 01:06 |
| javispedro | hopefully. | 01:06 |
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| javispedro | Tadthebuilder, the what? | 01:06 |
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| Tadthebuilder | that phrase "write mesage hildonbanner while trying to send an empty message in sms app | 01:07 |
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| javispedro | Tadthebuilder: final SDK. didn't you get the memo either? | 01:07 |
| Tadthebuilder | not a developer...:) | 01:07 |
| Tadthebuilder | dont ask why im in the developer irc | 01:07 |
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| javispedro | what developer irc? | 01:07 |
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| Tadthebuilder | isnt that what this is? | 01:08 |
| Tadthebuilder | i feel like im the only person who isnt a developer | 01:08 |
| Tadthebuilder | ... | 01:08 |
| Tadthebuilder | :P) | 01:08 |
| javispedro | Tadthebuilder: 335 total users. you're not the only one. | 01:08 |
| Tadthebuilder | true | 01:08 |
| * zerojay fires up Maelstrom... good ole Maelstrom. | 01:08 | |
| Tadthebuilder | civicrm says that it can be ran without a network | 01:09 |
| Tadthebuilder | on a single device | 01:09 |
| Tadthebuilder | would it be possible to get it working an n800? | 01:09 |
| zerojay | Aww... controls don't work. :/ | 01:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tadthebuilder, this is anything Maemo | 01:09 |
| Tadthebuilder | http://civicrm.org/download | 01:09 |
| javispedro | Tadthebuilder: given enough time and resources... | 01:09 |
| johnsq | Tadthebuilder: just try a simple editor for your task. | 01:09 |
| Tadthebuilder | thats going to be very repetitive :) | 01:10 |
| Tadthebuilder | I was hoping to not have to type names in every time haha | 01:10 |
| javispedro | either way civicrm is anything but lightweight, seems. | 01:10 |
| johnsq | Tadthebuilder: good editors have interactive search. | 01:10 |
| Tadthebuilder | true | 01:10 |
| Tadthebuilder | good point | 01:10 |
| Tadthebuilder | yeah its not lightweight | 01:11 |
| Tadthebuilder | not at all | 01:11 |
| Tadthebuilder | any suggested editor for n800? | 01:11 |
| johnsq | Tadthebuilder: maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/vim/ | 01:12 |
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| Tadthebuilder | ill check it out | 01:13 |
| MaceN8x0 | watching defying gravity | 01:13 |
| Tadthebuilder | ive used vim before | 01:13 |
| Tadthebuilder | its command line only right? | 01:13 |
| Tadthebuilder | but now that I think about it It may be perfect for my needs | 01:13 |
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| johnsq | Tadthebuilder: no, i don't know if the maemo version includes or is only the gtk version. | 01:14 |
| Tadthebuilder | includes what? | 01:14 |
| johnsq | Tadthebuilder: the gui version | 01:14 |
| Tadthebuilder | ah okay | 01:14 |
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| Tadthebuilder | one day im going to need to learn how to code | 01:17 |
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| Tadthebuilder | I think it would help my productivity... | 01:17 |
| Tadthebuilder | not sure if im smart enough though | 01:17 |
| Firebird | in what way | 01:17 |
| Tadthebuilder | would it help my productivity? | 01:17 |
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| Tadthebuilder | or in what way am I not smart enough? | 01:17 |
| Firebird | the first | 01:17 |
| Tadthebuilder | well If I thought of something I had to do repeatedly | 01:17 |
| Tadthebuilder | that could be done smoother with the help of a program | 01:17 |
| Tadthebuilder | I could program it thus making more efficient in the long run | 01:18 |
| Firebird | coding has actually decreased my productivity in other things... especially school | 01:18 |
| Tadthebuilder | I could see that being true also | 01:18 |
| johnsq | Firebird: true :9 | 01:18 |
| Firebird | I totally messed up the first week of school :/ | 01:18 |
| Tadthebuilder | what level school? | 01:18 |
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| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: You know what's great about using NES games for N900 backgrounds? | 01:19 |
| Firebird | Tadthebuilder, junior year of high school, "the only year that counts" | 01:19 |
| Tadthebuilder | oh | 01:19 |
| sheepbat | you have an NES emulator running in the background, zerojay? | 01:19 |
| Tadthebuilder | I though that was the first years of a masters degree... haha | 01:19 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: NES resolution = 256x240. 240 = 2x... perfect for backgrounds. :) | 01:19 |
| Firebird | heh | 01:19 |
| javispedro | zerojay: that you can enjoy the fine typeface nintendo uses for their cease& desist letters? >:) | 01:19 |
| rmt | Tadthebuilder, ThinkingRock is good for productivity. | 01:19 |
| Tadthebuilder | whats thinking rock? | 01:20 |
| zerojay | sheepbat: I could, but no. | 01:20 |
| zerojay | javispedro: Pfffft. :) | 01:20 |
| rmt | Tadthebuilder, time/task/life management | 01:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 01:20 |
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| Tadthebuilder | i definitly need that | 01:20 |
| Tadthebuilder | I am so disorganized | 01:20 |
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| Tadthebuilder | and its hurting | 01:20 |
| Tadthebuilder | ... | 01:20 |
| javispedro | zerojay: 239 pixels tall</nitpick>. | 01:20 |
| zerojay | If GIMP will listen to me, anyways. | 01:21 |
| javispedro | either way a 1 px line is like... 0.1mm in n900? | 01:21 |
| Tadthebuilder | where can I find a manual for vim? | 01:21 |
| johnsq | Tadthebuilder: vim.org | 01:22 |
| javispedro | are you completely sure you should introduce him to vim at this age? :D | 01:22 |
| johnsq | javispedro: i have eaten vi with the mother milk :) | 01:23 |
| Tadthebuilder | graphics who needs em | 01:23 |
| Tadthebuilder | if I can handle drwaf fortress and nethack I should be able to handle a graphicless text editor right? | 01:23 |
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| javispedro | I guess that's the spirit. | 01:23 |
| SpeedEvil | ddddddd | 01:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Dddd | 01:23 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders how many will get the subtle error. | 01:23 | |
| lbt | Important Summit Announcement : coming soon to http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ | 01:24 |
| Tadthebuilder | why no thinkingrock for n800 | 01:24 |
| javispedro | windows mobile is dead! | 01:24 |
| javispedro | as much as the poort palmos. | 01:24 |
| javispedro | rejoice! | 01:24 |
| Tadthebuilder | I refuse to rejoice at the failure of others :) | 01:24 |
| Tadthebuilder | thats like laughing at the kid who gets tripped and dropps his food | 01:25 |
| Tadthebuilder | all of the cafeteria | 01:25 |
| Tadthebuilder | its not his fault he is clumsy | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Failure in business is a natural part of the economic process. ;) | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | It keeps things efficient. | 01:25 |
| javispedro | Tadthebuilder: what, you never watched roadrunner vs coyote episodes? | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which is why bailouts are so ridiculous. | 01:25 |
| * Tadthebuilder no argument from this almost libertarian | 01:26 | |
| Tadthebuilder | ah thinkingrock is java | 01:26 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Hope you like Brinstar. | 01:26 |
| Tadthebuilder | anything similar not java? | 01:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, we need to con somebody into setting up a package system for these panos. | 01:27 |
| zerojay | Yeah, definitely. | 01:27 |
| javispedro | what you mean? | 01:27 |
| javispedro | a template packaging? | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, so we can distribute pano backgrounds without having to explain to people where they need to put 5 files. | 01:28 |
| javispedro | so something automated and not requiring the sdk I guess. | 01:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, the idea would be a source package template that we can connect a web form to to generate stuff that can be thrown at the autobuilder. | 01:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | So, somebody goes to http://n900backgrounds.com, clicks "Submit background", selects "Panoramic" uploads the 4 images, enters description/copyright information and then the script generates a source package that a moderator can review and then submit to the autobuilder. | 01:29 |
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| Tadthebuilder | rmt: can you verify no spyware, adware, malware, in thinkingrock? (I like to be sure on non open source software | 01:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Finally, the .install file gets linked from the site and all that has to happen to install a background is for the user to tap the nice green "Install" arrow on their device. | 01:30 |
| Tadthebuilder | general this is why we call you general | 01:30 |
| javispedro | sounds like a two-day coding session :D | 01:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | That's His Lordship and Imperial Highness Emperor Field Marshal Antilles to you. | 01:31 |
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| Tadthebuilder | nah | 01:32 |
| Tadthebuilder | Im an america...dont like royalty :) | 01:32 |
| Tadthebuilder | also | 01:32 |
| Tadthebuilder | dont like spelling write | 01:33 |
| Tadthebuilder | right | 01:33 |
| Tadthebuilder | * | 01:33 |
| Tadthebuilder | Im an america and so can you | 01:33 |
| dottedmag | Tadthebuilder: thinkingrock is CDDL | 01:33 |
| Tadthebuilder | ah thanks | 01:33 |
| Tadthebuilder | i feel better now :) | 01:33 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Oh yeah... the .desktop file also. | 01:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, it wouldn't be so bad if we could make the .desktop visible, but it'll clutter up Images awfully quickly. | 01:34 |
| javispedro | desktop file for what? | 01:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Panoramic backgrounds. | 01:34 |
| javispedro | ah, they do need a desktop file too. sorry. | 01:35 |
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| zerojay | Sets all four backgrounds at the same time, I guess. | 01:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=340629&postcount=51 | 01:35 |
| javispedro | makes sense | 01:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Invisble .desktop files will need to be installed to $MYDOCS/.images/ | 01:35 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Thanks. | 01:35 |
| javispedro | $MYDOCS? it won't enumerate the usual /usr/share/ locations? | 01:36 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: So it's just supposed to be [themename].desktop then? | 01:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, good question, I haven't investigated. | 01:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, but, yeah, better to stick it there if it's a .deb install. | 01:36 |
| Tadthebuilder | how many people have n900s at the moment? | 01:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, yeah, but invisible. | 01:37 |
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| lbt | http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ | 01:38 |
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| lbt | GeneralAntilles: especially for you! | 01:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | OK, somebody figure out where nseries_0[14].jpg are hiding. | 01:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, wont be there. | 01:39 |
| lbt | oh? | 01:39 |
| zerojay | bbs | 01:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Screwed over by the State Department. | 01:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Passport was a total clusterfuck. | 01:40 |
| lbt | oh bollocks | 01:40 |
| lbt | sorry mate | 01:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah. :\ | 01:40 |
| Firebird | what... maemo5 uses pulseaudio? | 01:40 |
| * SpeedEvil passes GeneralAntilles a large wheel of cheese to console him. | 01:41 | |
| * Firebird brings out the firing squad | 01:41 | |
| Tadthebuilder | (they thought he was trying to smuggle drugs back in the contry) | 01:41 |
| javispedro | Firebird: yes | 01:41 |
| Tadthebuilder | country* | 01:41 |
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| Firebird | pulseaudio is some crap :/ | 01:41 |
| lbt | I saw some chat on quick passport applications - no time? | 01:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, I expedited it which should've taken 1-3 weeks. | 01:41 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: /usr/share/themes/alpha/backgrounds/wallpaper{1,2,3,4}.png | 01:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | That started 7 weeks ago. | 01:42 |
| * Tadthebuilder is confused by vim | 01:42 | |
| GeneralAntilles | It shipped this morning. | 01:42 |
| javispedro | and /usr/share/themes/alpha/backgrounds/theme_bg.desktop | 01:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which could've worked out, but unfortunately they decided to ship it standard instead of overnight like I paid for. | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | Firebird: it's better than esd... | 01:42 |
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| Firebird | I like pure alsa | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | Although admittedly developers have had 10 years to familiarize themselves with esd's bugs and work around them somewhat. Pulse is still adding bugs :) | 01:43 |
| javispedro | Firebird: dmix is crap, so since dsp no longer mixes... | 01:43 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah dmix is worse than pulse | 01:43 |
| ShadowJK | Less predictable | 01:43 |
| luke-jr_ | ... | 01:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, OK, I see the .desktop there, where to stick add-on backgrounds then? | 01:43 |
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| luke-jr_ | isn't mixing just A+B+C / 3? | 01:44 |
| javispedro | dunno, I am not a gtk theming guru... :P | 01:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, what good are you, then? | 01:44 |
| javispedro | luke-jr_: I wish. | 01:44 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: It's a trap! | 01:44 |
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| johnsq | luke-jr_: you must also handle clipping | 01:45 |
| luke-jr_ | johnsq: an average is never larger than the inputs... | 01:45 |
| ShadowJK | And you must report accurate buffer fill status to all apps involved | 01:45 |
| ShadowJK | And accurate delay information | 01:45 |
| luke-jr_ | there should be no delay :/ | 01:46 |
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| johnsq | but who needs mixing? kill all the gimmicks and use real apps! | 01:46 |
| ShadowJK | There is a buffer in sound chip, in ram, in mixer app. 3 sources of delay already. | 01:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: an average doesn't work | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: or your sound gets quieter as you mix more sources | 01:47 |
| luke-jr_ | ShadowJK: nooooooooo :( | 01:47 |
| luke-jr_ | ShadowJK: delay means phone is impossible... | 01:47 |
| luke-jr_ | so N900 can't have delay | 01:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | You're assuming the audio goes through the SoC | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | this is probably not true. | 01:48 |
| javispedro | delay makes nothing impossible, unpredictable delay does. | 01:48 |
| luke-jr_ | SpeedEvil: then how would you use a Bluetooth headset? | 01:48 |
| luke-jr_ | javispedro: delay makes real-time two-way audio (eg, phones) impossible | 01:48 |
| javispedro | I don't <5 second latency. | 01:48 |
| javispedro | er.. | 01:48 |
| javispedro | I don't need < 5 seconds latency. | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: in one phone I'm familiar with, the bluetooth headset is wired to the sound mixer chip | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: excessive delay | 01:48 |
| * Tadthebuilder thinks he finally got into vim to type... | 01:48 | |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: you get 10ms in real life just by being 3m away | 01:49 |
| luke-jr_ | SpeedEvil: bluetooth headsets are wireless | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: to restate, the bluetooth wireless module is wired... | 01:50 |
| * javispedro retracts the < 5 second assumption after doing a reality check. | 01:50 | |
| ShadowJK | Phone has delay | 01:50 |
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| ShadowJK | Just take two phones, call yourself | 01:50 |
| ShadowJK | And listen to the delay :) | 01:50 |
| Tadthebuilder | (I dont know if....vim is going to work for my needs. | 01:51 |
| Tadthebuilder | im still gonna try though( | 01:51 |
| ShadowJK | With phone the delay matters less because you dont need lipsync with video.. | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | In 'real' life, you have four GSM codec delays in the signal path | 01:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tadthebuilder, vim is a life skill. | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | (each way) | 01:51 |
| Tadthebuilder | yeah but I should probbaly learn how to use it with a real keyboard | 01:52 |
| Tadthebuilder | before an on screen one | 01:52 |
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| ShadowJK | Unless you're doing video calls, in which case you only need same delay on video, and it's fine... Where accurate delay reporting need comes in | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC it's on the order of 250ms or so when it starts becoming awkward. | 01:52 |
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| * Tadthebuilder created and named a file!!!! | 01:53 | |
| luke-jr_ | ShadowJK: no delay | 01:54 |
| luke-jr_ | normal phones use the same wire pair for both directions | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: with a conventional phone, the delay will be single digit milliseconds | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: however, mobiles do not | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: for example - a typical GSM call goes: | 01:55 |
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| MaceN8x0 | i ordered a pizza | 01:55 |
| MaceN8x0 | and am starving | 01:55 |
| luke-jr_ | MaceN8x0: SHARE IT | 01:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | High five! | 01:55 |
| MaceN8x0 | waiting on it | 01:56 |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, single digit millisecond for voice transfer for a conventional phone? | 01:56 |
| javispedro | "A typical GSM call goes like: 'I ordered a pizza and am starting'". | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: mic->A/D->GSM codec -> radio + errors ->GSM codec ->IDSN between base-stations -> GSM codec->RF + errors ->GSM codec ->D/A ->speaker | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Where the codecs may not all be the same type | 01:56 |
| * GeneralAntilles mutters at his uncooperative turkey sandwich. | 01:57 | |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, 10 miles even at the speed of light is 18 milliseconds | 01:57 |
| * javispedro imagines A/D conversions at the speed of light | 01:57 | |
| javispedro | or gsm encoding, for the matter. | 01:57 |
| luke-jr_ | how about my cell phone that has analog? | 01:58 |
| Shapeshifter | I raise nanoseconds | 01:58 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie__: 10m - sound | 01:58 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: In the UK? | 01:58 |
| luke-jr_ | SpeedEvil: no clue | 01:58 |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, what were you refering to as "single digit milliseconds"? | 01:58 |
| SpeedEvil | was all shut off ages ago | 01:58 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie__: phone-normal-phone in the same exchange area | 01:58 |
| crashanddie__ | that's what I said | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie__: it's not 'instant' anymore as it's digitised | 01:59 |
| crashanddie__ | well, even if it's analogue over a copper wire, going nearly at the speed of light, is not instant | 01:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | Hey VIM is not so hard...I figured out some stuff about it | 01:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | im sure ill pick up future things that will help more | 01:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | but | 01:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | hey | 01:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | I can edit text... | 01:59 |
| Shapeshifter | crashanddie__: mhh but for the signal travelling at the speed of light, it feels instant ;) | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | The first paper I found says 191ms for GSM network delay | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | which seems sane | 02:00 |
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| Shapeshifter | meant to say "to the signal it feels instant" | 02:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tadthebuilder, the more important part is that now you can edit text on nearly any *nix system you encounter. | 02:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | well | 02:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | ah | 02:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | that makes sense | 02:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | I can edit text in gedit on my ubuntu box :) | 02:01 |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, oh, my bad, I misread that in units, 10 miles at light of speed is actually .05 ms, or 53k ns | 02:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | the most important part is I can use this to do what I need until I can talk someone into taking my bounty... | 02:02 |
| Vulcanis | I can edit text in googledocs on ANY operating system with a web interface. That doesn't mean its the smart thing to do, Tadthebuilder. | 02:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | true | 02:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | understood | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie__: by 'instant' - I mean that for a single-exchange call in 1980 or so, the delay may be around 120us or so. | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie__: now, it's going to be several times more than that | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie__: GSM is a couple of orders of magnitude worse | 02:03 |
| crashanddie__ | does that include the operator switching cables? | 02:03 |
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| Tadthebuilder | (what the escape key onthe n800? to get me out of insert mode?) | 02:04 |
| crashanddie__ | isn't that like saying that adsl is worse than telegram, because the information is modulated and demodulated constantly? | 02:04 |
| crashanddie__ | Tadthebuilder, should be on screen in the console | 02:04 |
| javispedro | the back key also. | 02:04 |
| Tadthebuilder | found it | 02:04 |
| Tadthebuilder | thanks | 02:04 |
| Tadthebuilder | im such a newb... | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a valid point - the delay with modern systems is larger for a number of reasons. For most applications this isn't an issue. | 02:05 |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, the main difference is that the amount of information that can be passed through is a lot higher | 02:05 |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, meaning latency becomes less relevant than throughput | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | No - I mean for voice calls | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | For which throughput has not changed | 02:05 |
| crashanddie__ | my point exactly | 02:05 |
| crashanddie__ | actually, it has | 02:05 |
| crashanddie__ | the sound quality has increased drastically | 02:06 |
| crashanddie__ | just look at skype | 02:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | throughput - words/minute - remains constant though. | 02:06 |
| crashanddie__ | stereo phone conversations? Rather than the crackling of other people's voices on your conversation? | 02:06 |
| crashanddie__ | you're being intentionally daft, argument is over from this point | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | The UK never really suffered from that that much. | 02:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | but... | 02:07 |
| luke-jr_ | Vulcanis: no, you can't | 02:07 |
| luke-jr_ | Vulcanis: Google apps are so buggy and broken that they only work in Firefox and IE | 02:08 |
| luke-jr_ | and maybe Safari | 02:08 |
| luke-jr_ | (and obviously Chrome) | 02:08 |
| Tadthebuilder | wait | 02:08 |
| crashanddie__ | luke-jr_, and that doesn't "ANY" operating system, how exactly? | 02:08 |
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| Tadthebuilder | safari, firefox, Ie, and Chrome = 99.99 percent of all internet users right? | 02:08 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: hm? | 02:08 |
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| crashanddie__ | unless you coun't CP/M, but he did specify "any operating system with a web interface" | 02:08 |
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| luke-jr_ | Tadthebuilder: irrelevant | 02:08 |
| crashanddie__ | where the hell did that apostrophe come from | 02:09 |
| luke-jr_ | Konqueror is better than all 4 | 02:09 |
| Tadthebuilder | what moden os cannot run atleast one of those four? | 02:09 |
| Vulcanis | DOS | 02:09 |
| crashanddie__ | all of them, no? | 02:09 |
| Vulcanis | uh | 02:09 |
| luke-jr_ | Tadthebuilder: anything KDE-based where you don't have access | 02:09 |
| Vulcanis | old ones | 02:09 |
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| luke-jr_ | or where you don't want to run non-native apps | 02:10 |
| luke-jr_ | "works for 99% of idiots" is not "standards compliant and works right" | 02:10 |
| luke-jr_ | especially when the former means Google just gives each browser different code | 02:10 |
| luke-jr_ | eg, ActiveX on IE | 02:11 |
| crashanddie__ | luke-jr_, you do realise there's a Qt port of Firefox? | 02:11 |
| Tadthebuilder | um | 02:11 |
| Tadthebuilder | I can run firefox inside of KDe | 02:11 |
| crashanddie__ | Tadthebuilder, he means "exclusive based on Qt" | 02:11 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: yes, not officially supported and not actually shipped with any distro | 02:11 |
| crashanddie__ | Tadthebuilder, because IIRC, Firefox isn't using Qt or blablabla | 02:11 |
| luke-jr_ | Tadthebuilder: not if you lack a compiler or root | 02:12 |
| GAN800 | rawr distro wars go! | 02:12 |
| luke-jr_ | plus, Firefox is a resource hog | 02:12 |
| Tadthebuilder | I have konquerer but I cannot stand | 02:12 |
| Tadthebuilder | it so never use it | 02:12 |
| crashanddie__ | Tadthebuilder, he's just annoyed that even though he has 5 gazillion tons of RAM, he has to use an app that actually has dependencies, OMG | 02:12 |
| GAN800 | Firefox gets us cheap RAM. | 02:12 |
| Tadthebuilder | haha | 02:12 |
| Tadthebuilder | I would like a browser that uses less ram | 02:12 |
| Tadthebuilder | only 512 mrgs | 02:13 |
| luke-jr_ | Konqueror is pretty ideal | 02:13 |
| GAN800 | links | 02:13 |
| crashanddie__ | GAN800, GET | 02:13 |
| luke-jr_ | links is decent for "Web 1.0" | 02:13 |
| crashanddie__ | links is such a memory hog | 02:13 |
| luke-jr_ | wtf? | 02:13 |
| crashanddie__ | GET never uses more than 600k of RAM | 02:13 |
| GAN800 | Tadthebulder, why not spend the $20 to get another stick of 1GB? ;) | 02:13 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: wow, that's a lot for something like GET | 02:13 |
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| crashanddie__ | links easily goes over 1.2 megs | 02:13 |
| luke-jr_ | GAN800: $20 won't get another 1 GB of RAM if your system is old enough to only have 512 MB | 02:14 |
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| luke-jr_ | GAN800: DDR 1 and PC133 are easily over $50 per GB | 02:14 |
| Tadthebuilder | yea | 02:14 |
| Tadthebuilder | it only takes ddr | 02:14 |
| Tadthebuilder | not ddr2 | 02:14 |
| Tadthebuilder | so it would cost about 50 dollars or more | 02:14 |
| Tadthebuilder | and yeah | 02:14 |
| luke-jr_ | not to mention if he doesn't have slots | 02:14 |
| Tadthebuilder | I do have two slots | 02:14 |
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| crashanddie__ | question: if your system is old enough to only have 512 megs of RAM, why do you bother with a modern browser? Isn't that like saying "My Voodoo FX can't run Far Cry 2" | 02:14 |
| Tadthebuilder | with only one used | 02:14 |
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| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: think of what channel you're in | 02:15 |
| Tadthebuilder | its only 5 or six years old | 02:15 |
| luke-jr_ | most of us onyl have 128 MB RAM | 02:15 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: 512 MiB is more than enough for a modern browser. | 02:15 |
| Tadthebuilder | im poor... | 02:15 |
| crashanddie__ | luke-jr_, my point exactly | 02:15 |
| Tadthebuilder | I just got out of graduate school | 02:15 |
| Tadthebuilder | to a job that does not pay much... | 02:15 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: the opposite of your point it seems | 02:15 |
| crashanddie__ | luke-jr_, why are you *demanding* the same features as a full blown desktop browser if you're on a strapped environment? | 02:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | I've - comparatively - recently used FF1.5 on a 128M machine. | 02:15 |
| javispedro | because 128 MiB should be enough for everyone! | 02:15 |
| crashanddie__ | javispedro, LMAO | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Even with 30 tabs open, it was fine. | 02:16 |
| Tadthebuilder | if any one has a 512 or gig of ddr ram id take it :) | 02:16 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: 192MiB, Firefox 3. | 02:16 |
| javispedro | and perfectly fine. | 02:16 |
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| luke-jr_ | SpeedEvil: FF 1.5 is not even supported | 02:16 |
| luke-jr_ | javispedro: I agree. | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: no, it's not. | 02:17 |
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| crashanddie__ | you guys make me smile | 02:17 |
| javispedro | yes! | 02:17 |
| luke-jr_ | Windows NT 3.1 requires 12 MB of RAM | 02:17 |
| crashanddie__ | In painful reminding way of why corporations have such a hard time listening to "online communities" | 02:17 |
| javispedro | Windows 95 requires less than 4 MiB. | 02:17 |
| luke-jr_ | what do we have now that NT 3.1 didn't have that justifies over 10 times the RAM use? | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: and it was a year ago. | 02:17 |
| javispedro | And I can still boot it in this computer. | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: More viruses! | 02:18 |
| javispedro | luke-jr_: easy. ability for coders to be lazy and concentrate on the more stupid features instead, like flashy icons. | 02:18 |
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| luke-jr_ | javispedro: I suspect that's accurate :// | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr_: higher bit-rate flesh0tones. | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr_, that question is so silly it's not worth answering. | 02:19 |
| crashanddie__ | I'm going to print a t-shirt | 02:19 |
| crashanddie__ | "Luke-Jr: Trolling just like Daddy taught me" | 02:19 |
| javispedro | aw, flaming is fun, cmon. | 02:20 |
| javispedro | :) | 02:20 |
| Tadthebuilder | 40 dollars? | 02:20 |
| luke-jr_ | GeneralAntilles: besides HD video, I can't think of much | 02:20 |
| luke-jr_ | from an end-user perspective I mean | 02:20 |
| Tadthebuilder | search indexing | 02:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | You know what end users use? | 02:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Faceebok, YouTube, MySpace | 02:20 |
| Tadthebuilder | I am an end user | 02:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Any one of which can file up 100MB of RAM easy. | 02:21 |
| luke-jr_ | GeneralAntilles: none of which have a good reason to require more than a few MB of RAM | 02:21 |
| Firebird | hm, GUI testing still only works under x86? | 02:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Music, video, games. | 02:21 |
| javispedro | Firebird: yes | 02:21 |
| crashanddie__ | luke-jr_, resolution? quality (a jpeg over 40px wide, and no, animated gifs don't count), live indexing, rss feeds, connectivity, more programs running at the same time -> actual multitasking, actual ability to do stuff: recording high quality content (audio, video) is possible, wasn't the case a few years ago | 02:21 |
| luke-jr_ | GeneralAntilles: those all worked fine 10 years ago | 02:21 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: I said "besides HD video" for a reason | 02:22 |
| crashanddie__ | luke-jr_, then fuck off and go back to CP/M if you're not happy with the current state of affairs | 02:22 |
| Firebird | oh great, the infamous "You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first" | 02:22 |
| javispedro | Firebird: sb-conf ka | 02:22 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: NT != CP/M | 02:22 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: CP/M only needed a few KB | 02:22 |
| javispedro | I'm personally happy with the current state of affairs. I enjoy being lazy. | 02:22 |
| Firebird | thanks javispedro , does that like kill all open programs? | 02:22 |
| javispedro | Firebird: yes | 02:23 |
| javispedro | save the shell iirc. | 02:23 |
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| crashanddie__ | luke-jr_, better libraries, better overall integration and data distribution across applications. Signal handling has drastically improved, and things like HAL or D-BUS have become a reality, only because we more power | 02:24 |
| * Tadthebuilder would like more ram | 02:24 | |
| crashanddie__ | s/more power/have more power, storage and RAM/ | 02:24 |
| infobot | crashanddie__ meant: luke-jr_, better libraries, better overall integration and data distribution across applications. Signal handling has drastically improved, and things like HAL or D-BUS have become a reality, only because we have more power, storage and RAM | 02:24 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: HAL is a bad joke | 02:24 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: I'd stop adding functionality examples. Do you suggest that W95 didn't had IPC or Device Manager functionality for example? | 02:24 |
| luke-jr_ | D-BUS is really nothing new, just standardized | 02:24 |
| javispedro | what I'd say is that what we have is nicer APIs. | 02:24 |
| javispedro | APIs which don't care to make an extra copy of a string, for example. | 02:25 |
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| javispedro | ---> more developer friendlyness. | 02:25 |
| luke-jr_ | is the problem that we stuck to C and never moved to C++? :p | 02:25 |
| crashanddie__ | javispedro, not saying W95 didn't have IPC, but it sure has evolved a whole lot. And I'm not talking about named pipes and other crap, but something like D-BUS definitely made IPC a lot easier | 02:25 |
| crashanddie__ | dunno the windows equivalent | 02:26 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: made DEVELOPING and USING (developer) IPC easier. | 02:26 |
| luke-jr_ | I was doing D-BUS type stuff at least a decade ago | 02:26 |
| javispedro | but the end user didn't gain any direct functionality from it. | 02:26 |
| crashanddie__ | javispedro, which provides better integration across applications, and thus better user experience | 02:26 |
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| crashanddie__ | javispedro, never underestimate the power of "ease of development" as a benefit for end users | 02:26 |
| crashanddie__ | Maemo is a perfect example of that | 02:27 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: because then developers can be lazy and concentrate on the shiny icons. | 02:27 |
| luke-jr_ | there are far more memory-friendly ways to do IPC than D-BUS | 02:27 |
| Tadthebuilder | I kinda like shiny icons | 02:27 |
| javispedro | and so we repeat the conversation again ;) | 02:27 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: hahaha | 02:27 |
| Tadthebuilder | and spinning cubes | 02:27 |
| luke-jr_ | Maemo is crap. | 02:27 |
| crashanddie__ | javispedro, the main reason Maemo sucks for the public at large, is that the applications are shite | 02:27 |
| luke-jr_ | hard-coded for a single user named "user" | 02:27 |
| Tadthebuilder | and text editors with graphical interphaces | 02:27 |
| Tadthebuilder | interfaces | 02:27 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: wrong nick! Maemo rules here. :) | 02:27 |
| crashanddie__ | javispedro, the reason the applications are shite, is because developers have to re-invent the wheel every week | 02:28 |
| luke-jr_ | that's supposed to be a perfect example? | 02:28 |
| Tadthebuilder | Im someone from the public at large | 02:28 |
| Tadthebuilder | I think | 02:28 |
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| Tadthebuilder | and I love maemo | 02:28 |
| Tadthebuilder | im not technical | 02:28 |
| Tadthebuilder | dont program | 02:28 |
| luke-jr_ | fine | 02:28 |
| Tadthebuilder | have minimal linux knowledge | 02:28 |
| luke-jr_ | how about that Maemo's IM subsystem doesn't work? | 02:28 |
| Tadthebuilder | avoid command line | 02:28 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: and I agree. that's my point exactly. the only reason we're using more resources is because we don't concentrate any more on the proper use of resources and instead on the shiny icons. | 02:29 |
| javispedro | some idealists may say this is horribly wrong. | 02:29 |
| javispedro | I don't. | 02:29 |
| crashanddie__ | I'm going to be the devil's advocate here for a second: Why does the iPhone have that many apps and happy users across the globe? Let's put the phone and shiny UI aside for a second, and just focus for a second on why the apps are popping up like faint mushrooms | 02:29 |
| crashanddie__ | javispedro, I've been yelling that on roofs for quite some time | 02:29 |
| Tadthebuilder | cause people can make money on them | 02:29 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: the shiny UI is the only reason AFAIK | 02:29 |
| luke-jr_ | shiny UI sells it, which makes it a large target base | 02:30 |
| luke-jr_ | add on top that those many iPhone owners have money to waste | 02:30 |
| Tadthebuilder | shiny UI can be nice | 02:30 |
| crashanddie__ | the reason iPhone development "just works", is because the whole process is thought through. You get one API, a good simulator, a brushed documentation that is consistent and help that is consistent | 02:30 |
| Tadthebuilder | especially if it is intuitive | 02:30 |
| crashanddie__ | They didn't give 5k developers 10k choices, they gave everyone the same choice. Done deal | 02:30 |
| javispedro | nah. | 02:31 |
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| javispedro | but that would be a flame I don't want to get it :) | 02:31 |
| crashanddie__ | The Freedom you get with Maemo is also its biggest downfall, too much choice is counter productive | 02:31 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: who was who said C++ ruled? | 02:31 |
| javispedro | er.. | 02:31 |
| crashanddie__ | eh? | 02:32 |
| javispedro | C++0x | 02:32 |
| Firebird | :o SDK is still ultra slow | 02:32 |
| crashanddie__ | segfault, didn't compute | 02:32 |
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| javispedro | ehem. | 02:32 |
| javispedro | either it wasn't you, so nm. | 02:32 |
| javispedro | bah. | 02:32 |
| javispedro | i need to sleep. | 02:32 |
| crashanddie__ | didn't understand the question, actually | 02:32 |
| javispedro | yes, sorry, nm. | 02:32 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: Qt has one API | 02:32 |
| crashanddie__ | luke-jr_, which is fine | 02:33 |
| crashanddie__ | luke-jr_, problem is, the first video I found when looking up the n800, was some fool running KDE off the device | 02:33 |
| Tadthebuilder | hmm | 02:33 |
| Tadthebuilder | hes probably a regular | 02:34 |
| crashanddie__ | what you have with Maemo, is some guys running everything off their tablet. Compilation et all (lcuk), and only do C, and reinvent the wheel because the libs are too slow | 02:34 |
| Jaffa | New version of Hermes about to hit autobuilder: pure Python for increased robustness, adds Facebook & Twitter profile URLs, add birthdays | 02:34 |
| Tadthebuilder | liqbase is awesome | 02:34 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: you say that as if there's something better than KDE for the N8x0 | 02:34 |
| Tadthebuilder | liqbase is better than kde | 02:34 |
| Tadthebuilder | liqbase is awesome. | 02:34 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: they reinvent the libs in iPhone too. only apple then bans them from the app store, and everybody complains. | 02:34 |
| crashanddie__ | then you have the Python guys, who use ugly GTK, and you get the slowest applications ever, which need to think just to show a confirmation dialog | 02:34 |
| javispedro | everybody being 0,1% of the iphone users "with voice". the rest don't care. | 02:35 |
| crashanddie__ | you've got some crazy lunatics who do everything in C++, and write absolute monstrosities with massive dependencies (I'm one of those, sadly) | 02:35 |
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| crashanddie__ | etc, etc, etc | 02:35 |
| crashanddie__ | and the list just keeps on going | 02:35 |
| crashanddie__ | which means that as a community, we're getting nowhere, because everyone is all over the place | 02:36 |
| luke-jr_ | shrug | 02:36 |
| luke-jr_ | I write good code at least. | 02:36 |
| crashanddie__ | there's no one central point of advancement | 02:36 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: maemo has one platform and one language: Hildon and C. | 02:36 |
| Tadthebuilder | i think that maemo 4 | 02:36 |
| luke-jr_ | my latest long-running program used about 10 seconds of CPU time in a month. | 02:36 |
| Tadthebuilder | has progressed nicely | 02:36 |
| Tadthebuilder | sinces it first began | 02:36 |
| Tadthebuilder | and has alot more useful programs | 02:36 |
| luke-jr_ | and a few KB of RAM | 02:36 |
| Tadthebuilder | and is more usable now then then | 02:36 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: what's missing from maemo is jobs banning you from the store if you use anything else. | 02:36 |
| crashanddie__ | javispedro, I don't think that's true | 02:36 |
| luke-jr_ | javispedro: no. Maemo also has Python, Qt, etc etc | 02:36 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: but that does not mean iphone devs enjoy ObjC. | 02:36 |
| crashanddie__ | javispedro, what's killing Maemo is the wealth of choices | 02:37 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: same wealth in iphone. | 02:37 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: no, what's killing Maemo is bad and closed software | 02:37 |
| crashanddie__ | oh let's not even go there | 02:37 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie__: What Maemo needs is a killer choice (or all the options to be as good as they should be) | 02:37 |
| luke-jr_ | Jaffa: Qt4 | 02:37 |
| crashanddie__ | Jaffa, that would work too | 02:37 |
| * Jaffa 's 5 min lightning talk on Saturday will go into more details | 02:37 | |
| crashanddie__ | Jaffa, I'll be sure to attend | 02:38 |
| luke-jr_ | but even Maemo's Qt4 is not quite standard from what I recall | 02:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | choice is good | 02:38 |
| crashanddie__ | Tadthebuilder, yes, but only to a point | 02:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | how many windows programs are there that burn music cds? | 02:38 |
| Jaffa | luke-jr_: Gets partway. Still not as good as it should be. | 02:38 |
| * luke-jr_ hopes Qt4 Maemo is decently coded | 02:38 | |
| javispedro | choice is good, no matter what. defaults are better. | 02:38 |
| MaceN8x0 | hm | 02:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | two legs good four legs better | 02:38 |
| crashanddie__ | Tadthebuilder, even the best of bakers can't make a profit from making 5000 different types of pastry when he only has 300 customers per day | 02:38 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie__: Much of it should be familiar to you, TBH. Hopefully educational to others tho | 02:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | aye, | 02:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | and if nokia was making all the software I would agree | 02:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | but the beauty of maemo is the open development | 02:39 |
| Tadthebuilder | of the third part software | 02:39 |
| Tadthebuilder | thus we can have a program that will help you find bell towers | 02:39 |
| Tadthebuilder | or fifteen | 02:39 |
| crashanddie__ | that's fine, have it | 02:39 |
| crashanddie__ | but how is that going to make the community grow, or evolve? | 02:39 |
| crashanddie__ | Because suddenly we've got Quasimodo hunching for Quim? | 02:40 |
| javispedro | how many phone models has nokia in store? | 02:40 |
| crashanddie__ | I don't mind having weird, funky and glorious little apps, which are useful to 10 people | 02:40 |
| crashanddie__ | but they're not what the central development model should be focusing on | 02:40 |
| Tadthebuilder | are you suggesting a tighter hand of control over the community? | 02:40 |
| crashanddie__ | When I saw the VM that brought the whole development environment together in one place, I thought "Finally, we've reached a strong point" | 02:40 |
| * Tadthebuilder is hoping someone will make a program that is useful to him and maybe ten other people but doubts it even with his bounty of 35 dollars | 02:41 | |
| Firebird | aww, the web browser doesn't work in the SDK | 02:41 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: IMHO,mobile SDKs tend to promote "weird, funky and glorious little apps". | 02:41 |
| crashanddie__ | but we didn't. It was flakeware, and never lived to become the incentive it should've been | 02:41 |
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| Jaffa | Firebird: Hmm, wiki docs suggested it should | 02:41 |
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| crashanddie__ | javispedro, only when the "mobile SDK" already exists, which in Maemo, is not the case | 02:41 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie__: +oo | 02:41 |
| Firebird | Jaffa, it shows a sort of history list, but when you click any of the items it just makes more history items | 02:42 |
| crashanddie__ | +oo? | 02:42 |
| javispedro | +Inf I guess :P | 02:42 |
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| * Jaffa nods | 02:42 | |
| crashanddie__ | still didn't get it | 02:42 |
| Firebird | oh... "Operation temporarily disabled due to low memory" | 02:42 |
| Jaffa | +1 x very big number | 02:42 |
| javispedro | crashanddie__: that you're right. maemo doesn't have a proper SDK yet. | 02:43 |
| crashanddie__ | Tadthebuilder, I'm not saying anyone should put the community in check, no one can, this can only be a decision made by the community itself, by a number of developers together | 02:43 |
| * Tadthebuilder is offering 35 dollars to any one who creates a program useful for keeping track of pastoral visitations and phone calls.... | 02:43 | |
| luke-jr_ | SDKs are flawed in theory | 02:43 |
| luke-jr_ | software should be written for a purpose, not for a platform | 02:43 |
| javispedro | I agree with luke-jr there, but as usual, that doesn't go down well for the corporate world. | 02:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Firebird, working OK here. | 02:44 |
| Jaffa | And most people would like to write said software on something with a big screen and a nice keyboard. | 02:44 |
| Firebird | GeneralAntilles, having low mem issues | 02:44 |
| Jaffa | And then test it on a device (or, if one is not available, as close to a device is available) | 02:44 |
| Firebird | GeneralAntilles, scratchbox limit perhaps? | 02:44 |
| Jaffa | These utilities would often be bundled together in the form of a "kit" for "software development". | 02:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 02:45 |
| crashanddie__ | I wanted to develop for the blackberry. I expensed a few quid to the company, and immediately had access to a device simulator, a doc with how-tos and hello-worlds, and a single language/API to start with. They didn't put littles stars and caveats on what OS I used, nor told me "you can do this, or this, or this, or this", and then if you ask a community, you're being told "oh no, don't do that, do this" | 02:45 |
| Jaffa | luke-jr: javispedro: Exactly which bit of that high-level definition of "SDK" would you get rid of? | 02:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, clever. | 02:45 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: the entire term is wrong. | 02:45 |
| Jaffa | The entire term is meaningless. | 02:45 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: it has only recently rised in popularity with the iPhone. | 02:45 |
| Tadthebuilder | and video games | 02:45 |
| crashanddie__ | and car tuning | 02:46 |
| Jaffa | Popularity, maybe. But I've been using mobile platform SDKs for over 15 years. | 02:46 |
| javispedro | and in fact apple is still google's first hit when looking for SDK. | 02:46 |
| crashanddie__ | </off topic> | 02:46 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: and they were anything more than a set of .h files? | 02:46 |
| Jaffa | The term has a well defined meaning in computing. That it's now popular on Google for the iPhone SDK; or people use it wrongly; or the Maemo one sucks; doesn't devalue it from being a concept which is useful | 02:46 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: A lot more. | 02:46 |
| Firebird | how the heck do I have low memory -_- there's like 3.4GB available | 02:46 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Toolchain, linker, emulator | 02:47 |
| luke-jr_ | Jaffa: all of it. | 02:47 |
| crashanddie__ | PS: this was something I always wanted to have a proper discussion about during a summit or something, just never got around to putting my ideas in a straight and well-layed out manner. Which causes me to go "oh fuck off you wanker" as soon as I'm caught unprepared | 02:47 |
| luke-jr_ | write it like any other app on your computer, then cross-compile it for the device | 02:47 |
| luke-jr_ | copy and run | 02:47 |
| Jaffa | luke-jr_: And how does your typical developer install the right cross-compiler and libraries? | 02:47 |
| Jaffa | Oh, they're shipped in a sodding SDK. | 02:47 |
| luke-jr_ | Jaffa: their operating system's package manager | 02:47 |
| luke-jr_ | this isn't 1980 | 02:48 |
| luke-jr_ | cross compilers aren't black magic anymore | 02:48 |
| Mousey | woah | 02:48 |
| Tadthebuilder | you have 3.4 gigs of memory.... | 02:48 |
| crashanddie__ | luke-jr_, cross compilers shouldn't require you to dump "0" in some file of your system's core files | 02:48 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: so? | 02:48 |
| Jaffa | luke-jr_: And how do I ensure on my OS that I have the correct libraries which will run on the device? How do I test on a device I don't have. | 02:49 |
| Mousey | ldd! | 02:49 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 02:49 |
| * Mousey isn't being a helper | 02:49 | |
| * Mousey goes back to lurking | 02:49 | |
| Jaffa | luke-jr_: This is what an SDK encompasses. It's like saying "you don't need a Linux distribution, you can just compile it all from scratch. Yes, you can. But most people will be more productive by taking the efforts of Ubuntu or Debian and getting down to real work | 02:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, clearly we need only to distribute hallucinogens to any interested developer. | 02:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then you can test whatever you want! | 02:49 |
| * Mousey signs up! | 02:50 | |
| javispedro | clearly. | 02:50 |
| luke-jr_ | Jaffa: qmake -spec n810 && make | 02:50 |
| javispedro | well, there are quite a few interesting summit talks comming it seems :D | 02:50 |
| Mousey | one little two little three little endian | 02:50 |
| crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, woohoo, free shrooms and absinthe for everyone at the summit | 02:50 |
| luke-jr_ | Jaffa: and as far as testing, hire developers to add qemu support | 02:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | :( | 02:50 |
| crashanddie__ | luke-jr_, why? | 02:51 |
| crashanddie__ | what kind of benefits would any company get from developing qemu? | 02:51 |
| crashanddie__ | any benefit that would warrant £180k a year | 02:51 |
| crashanddie__ | (on the base of 3 devs) | 02:51 |
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| Jaffa | luke-jr_: And, under my definition (and that accepted by the software industry), the combination of qmake support - and knowledge - of the N810 (which wouldn't be shipped as standard with qmake because it should be a plugin), the qemu configuration, the qemu image and any tools to make it easy to insert the cross-compiled packages into the qemu image would fall under the term "Software Development Kit" | 02:52 |
| luke-jr_ | crashanddie__: not writing your own emulator from scratch? | 02:52 |
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| crashanddie__ | I fail to see the business opportunity | 02:53 |
| Mousey | FREE INTERNETS! duh | 02:53 |
| * Jaffa isn't saying "SDK" => separate VMware image, or chroot or anything like that. It means: a consistent configuration which you can easily install to start writing - and testing - applications for a device. | 02:53 | |
| Mousey | oops.. i'm supposed to be lurking, sorry ^_^ | 02:53 |
| Jaffa | Mousey: Bad mousey. I'll set the cattey on you... | 02:53 |
| * Mousey hides! | 02:54 | |
| crashanddie__ | Jaffa, amen | 02:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | is the contacts app in maemo four open source? | 02:54 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: then you're clearly using the "modern" iPhone-era definition of SDK. | 02:54 |
| crashanddie__ | maemo four lol | 02:54 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Eh? | 02:54 |
| crashanddie__ | javispedro, no, he's using the correct one | 02:54 |
| javispedro | Well, I'd call that an IDE. | 02:54 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: This use of the term "SDK" predate the iPhone. See the Java SDK for a modernish example. EPOC for the earlier one | 02:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | diablo then | 02:54 |
| crashanddie__ | javispedro, or have you been silently ignoring parts of our argument just to suit your own view? | 02:55 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: A modern IDE can meet many parts of that definition of SDK, yes. | 02:55 |
| crashanddie__ | anyway | 02:55 |
| crashanddie__ | late enough | 02:55 |
| Jaffa | As can a VMware image or a chroot. | 02:55 |
| crashanddie__ | Jaffa, go to bed | 02:55 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie__: ditto | 02:55 |
| crashanddie__ | I am | 02:55 |
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| Jaffa | Ditto :) | 02:55 |
| javispedro | ditto too. | 02:55 |
| crashanddie__ | just calling you to join me, darling | 02:56 |
| Tadthebuilder | guess no one knows | 02:56 |
| crashanddie__ | anyway, I'm looking forward to this summit | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tadthebuilder, no, it's not. | 02:56 |
| Tadthebuilder | kk | 02:56 |
| Tadthebuilder | thanks | 02:56 |
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| crashanddie__ | my only real motivation is to see if GeneralAntilles really has a big fat beard at age 21, or if he's just a good photoshopist | 02:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie__, disappointment awaits. | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fucked by the State Department. | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not going. | 02:57 |
| crashanddie__ | what the fuck? | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's what I said. | 02:57 |
| crashanddie__ | why? | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Governmental incompetance. | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | "1-3 weeks expedited service with two-way overnight" is apparently nothing of the sort. | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | More like 7 weeks and no overnight. | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shipped today. :\ | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: I assume you can't claim back travel costs from them? | 02:58 |
| luke-jr_ | GeneralAntilles: demand a refund? | 02:58 |
| crashanddie__ | nokia paid | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | They already offered me a refund on the $14.95 for overnight. :roll: | 02:58 |
| luke-jr_ | for the Passport? | 02:59 |
| luke-jr_ | oh | 02:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Did they give you any excuses as to why it took so long? | 02:59 |
| crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, nice | 02:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Expedited service is apparently not a guarantee. | 02:59 |
| crashanddie__ | it never is | 02:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, no. | 02:59 |
| luke-jr_ | GeneralAntilles: take it and sue for damages? :p | 02:59 |
| luke-jr_ | by offering you the refund, they admit they messed up | 02:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, the national call center is completely disconnected from the processing centers. | 02:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, they all operate as essentially independent entities. | 02:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | is annointedly a word? | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | If they had shipped it overnight like I had paid for then I might've been able to get it held at the post office tomorrow. | 03:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | Tadthebuilder: yes | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | But, of course not. | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | and all of the sarcastic call center people were ever so helpful. | 03:00 |
| crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, that majorly sucks | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Indeed | 03:00 |
| crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, did you call AA/whomever takes care of your flight, to see if you can't postpone it a day or two? | 03:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | I was mostly OK with it this morning but I'm getting more depressed by the hour whenever I think about it. | 03:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie__, wouldn't matter, passport wont be here until Monday. | 03:01 |
| crashanddie__ | ridiculous | 03:01 |
| * javispedro watches that someone added "and a IDE" to the SDK definition in Wikipedia a few months before the first iPhone era. :D | 03:01 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Sad part is, my mother and sister got their passports a week and a half ago. | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sent in the same time I did mine and with standard service. | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good thing they have their passports with nowhere to go! | 03:02 |
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| crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, how long is your passport valid for? | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | 10 years | 03:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | that should of gone to the summit | 03:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | they* | 03:02 |
| crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, I guess, on a positive sarcastic note, you'll have it ready for next time | 03:03 |
| derf | GeneralAntilles: Wear a wig and pretend to be your sister. | 03:03 |
| Tadthebuilder | he would have to shave | 03:03 |
| derf | For added comedic effect, don't shave the beard. | 03:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie__, that's exactly what I said to Quim! ;) | 03:03 |
| * SpeedEvil passes GeneralAntilles two melons. | 03:03 | |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, is that a compliment to his sister? | 03:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | We need a table of N900s connected to video chat with all of the people who couldn't go. | 03:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | So if you want to talk to somebody just walk over to the appropriate tablet. ;) | 03:04 |
| javispedro | lol. | 03:05 |
| crashanddie__ | quote from when it's finished setting up: "we're going to need a bigger table" | 03:05 |
| luke-jr_ | GeneralAntilles: I don't think they have time to ship the N900s | 03:05 |
| luke-jr_ | unless you mean getting it to work wtih N810s | 03:05 |
| crashanddie__ | oh, btw, completely unrelated: I apparently have a broken pinky | 03:05 |
| zerojay | crashanddie__: How did you manage to do that? | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr_, there's a Maemo Experience center at the Summit. | 03:05 |
| crashanddie__ | no idea | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Plus: "Last but not least: your questions about Qt development and the N900 developer device program will be answered this Friday in the Maemo Summit." | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie__, I told you you shouldn't put that there. | 03:06 |
| javispedro | sigh. right where I can't listen to them! | 03:06 |
| crashanddie__ | zerojay, I suspect I did it while sleepwalking, it's the only explanation I have... It was just sore for the past few days, went to the doc this morning and he said "Son, you're walking around with a broken finger" (which sounds a lot worse than "it would appear your pinky is broken mate") | 03:07 |
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| zerojay | crashanddie__: Ouch. How long until it heals? A few weeks? | 03:07 |
| crashanddie__ | I mean, I can still type and everything with it | 03:07 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zerojay/3988085249/ | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nice | 03:07 |
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| crashanddie__ | zerojay, dunno, it just hurts a bit, no cast or anything | 03:08 |
| zerojay | My kid did something like that and he had to have his pinky stuck to the finger next to it for 3 weeks. | 03:08 |
| crashanddie__ | ring finger | 03:08 |
| zerojay | Yeah, that's the one. | 03:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 03:08 |
| crashanddie__ | how cool, your kid and I have the same hand setup | 03:09 |
| crashanddie__ | WE'RE LIKE HAND TWINS | 03:09 |
| zerojay | lol | 03:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fucking creeper. | 03:09 |
| luke-jr_ | GeneralAntilles: I meant, for the people who can't make it to use | 03:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr_, ah, yeah, that. | 03:09 |
| luke-jr_ | what will the Summit N900s be calling with? :p | 03:09 |
| crashanddie__ | GeneralAntilles, we're dick twins, and you admitted that, who's the creeper now? | 03:09 |
| luke-jr_ | calling to* | 03:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey, this isn't about me. :P | 03:10 |
| crashanddie__ | that would be some super hero league... Dick twin twin powers with hand twins: Join us next week for the ultimate super hero wank | 03:10 |
| zerojay | :) | 03:10 |
| javispedro | its getting common to either take a broken finger to the summit or get it broken there I see. | 03:10 |
| crashanddie__ | and with that being said, it's definitely time for me to go to bed, bye all | 03:10 |
| zerojay | crashanddie__: Later. | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Later | 03:11 |
| javispedro | cy | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, I thought you were going to bed. | 03:11 |
| javispedro | yeah. | 03:11 |
| javispedro | actually, I need to do some late night work first. | 03:11 |
| * javispedro needs to stop trolling on IRC. | 03:11 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, yeah. | 03:11 |
| luke-jr_ | GeneralAntilles: ur mom | 03:13 |
| javispedro | ok I just forgot what I was supposed to do. damn discussions. | 03:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Obviously it was making a source package template for me. | 03:14 |
| javispedro | a source template is a few minutes job, the web app is the costly one :) | 03:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then what are you in here running your mouth for? :P | 03:16 |
| javispedro | wasting everybody's time! :) it's my contribution to the community. | 03:19 |
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| javispedro | lol, the fremantle build queue has 8 packages today. | 03:31 |
| Firebird | any word why the SDK is extremely slow... | 03:31 |
| javispedro | slow on what? | 03:31 |
| Firebird | everything? | 03:31 |
| javispedro | do you have compiz? | 03:31 |
| Firebird | nope | 03:31 |
| javispedro | out of things to test :P | 03:32 |
| Firebird | its been slow since the betas, the transitions, any movements | 03:32 |
| Firebird | programs, SDL applications | 03:32 |
| javispedro | you have hw accelerated 3D in host? | 03:32 |
| Firebird | yes | 03:32 |
| zerojay | The betas didn't have transitions. | 03:32 |
| javispedro | beta 2 did. | 03:32 |
| VDVsx | Firebird, intel card ? | 03:32 |
| Firebird | no, nvidia in SLI | 03:32 |
| VDVsx | beta 1 also has | 03:32 |
| VDVsx | rocks here in my nvidia ;) | 03:33 |
| javispedro | rocks here too if I disable compiz. | 03:33 |
| Firebird | :o google loads as mobile.google | 03:33 |
| javispedro | well, slower than diablo's. | 03:33 |
| javispedro | Firebird: that's the bookmark. | 03:33 |
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| javispedro | I typed google.com and it did load the defult version. | 03:33 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, rocks here with compiz ;) | 03:34 |
| Firebird | ah | 03:34 |
| javispedro | well, finished. going to bed now for real. | 03:34 |
| javispedro | gnite | 03:34 |
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| VDVsx | me too, gnite folks, willing to meet some of you in AMS ;) | 03:35 |
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| * microlith spies a hold on his account for the full price of an N900 | 04:32 | |
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| * Tadthebuilder is back | 04:55 | |
| * GeneralAntilles is front. | 04:55 | |
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| * Tadthebuilder cannot figure out how to save and exit in vim on n800 | 04:58 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Press the back key | 04:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | :wq | 04:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Back is escape | 04:58 |
| jysky | i found this site very helpfull when begun use vim http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/vimcheat.html | 04:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | will back save the document? | 05:00 |
| microlith | that's what the :wq is for | 05:00 |
| Tadthebuilder | (thanks for the cheat sheet, that is awesome | 05:00 |
| Tadthebuilder | ah okay | 05:00 |
| * microlith ponders how well gvim would work on maemo | 05:00 | |
| Tadthebuilder | thanks | 05:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | that has been keeping me up | 05:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | I think I can sleep now | 05:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | :) | 05:01 |
| jysky | :D | 05:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | night all | 05:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Bleh, Fennec isn't optified. | 05:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Alright, what the hell: "gtk-update-icon-cache: Failed to write hash table" | 05:10 |
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| mfinkle | GeneralAntilles: I need to file a bug about installing to /opt | 05:29 |
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| mfinkle | is that what you mean by optified? | 05:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | mfinkle, right. | 05:29 |
| mfinkle | we'll get that fixed | 05:32 |
| mfinkle | GeneralAntilles: was that "gtk-update-icon-cache: Failed to write hash table" from Fennec too? | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | mfinkle, yeah, running it from the console works fine. | 05:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just fails with dpkg | 05:39 |
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| mfinkle | hmm, I thought we fixed that | 05:39 |
| mfinkle | I'll check the bug and reopen if needed | 05:39 |
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| mfinkle | GeneralAntilles: the bug I'm thinking of was for something else | 05:44 |
| mfinkle | we try to update the cache here http://mxr.mozilla.org/mobile-browser/source/installer/debian/fennec.postinst.in#15 | 05:45 |
| mfinkle | GeneralAntilles: N810 or N900? | 05:45 |
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| ShadowJK | I didn't know GeneralAntilles had an N900 :-) | 06:42 |
| ShadowJK | OTOH, optified isn't relevant on N810? | 06:43 |
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| zerojay | No, it's not. | 06:47 |
| zerojay | A few community members have them. | 06:48 |
| zerojay | Summit will be the big coming out party. lol | 06:48 |
| ShadowJK | I guess N900 still wont have shipped before then though | 06:50 |
| Tired | oh, so the N900 is in existing now | 06:53 |
| ShadowJK | ? | 06:53 |
| Tired | wasnt aware of it | 06:54 |
| Tired | :) | 06:54 |
| zerojay | Developer device program will be announced at Summit | 06:54 |
| Tired | argh, my irc client shows both your nicks in this dark blue that makes it nearly look as if only one is speaking | 06:55 |
| Tired | looks pretty much like the N810 with the next generation of hardware | 06:56 |
| ShadowJK | Well what would it look like if not that :) | 06:56 |
| Tired | dunno, add more features that don't work really well | 06:57 |
| Tired | :) | 06:57 |
| Tired | eh, but the camera is at the back | 06:59 |
| zerojay | One of them. | 06:59 |
| Tired | mmm | 07:00 |
| Tired | so one that works, one that doesnt? | 07:00 |
| Tired | TV out | 07:02 |
| Tired | mmm | 07:02 |
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| Tired | connecting a regular monitor would be it... | 07:03 |
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| Macer | blah | 07:03 |
| Tired | guess this is as close as possible | 07:03 |
| Macer | touchbook is in illinois! | 07:03 |
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| Tired | blah "in existing" "in existence" changed to plain "existing" | 07:10 |
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| Tired | looks pretty good though... one spec missing, though, the $$$ | 07:12 |
| microlith | not out of line for a phone being sold directly | 07:14 |
| Tired | it's a phone now? | 07:14 |
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| microlith | what, you didn't realize that? | 07:15 |
| microlith | hell it's why I'm -here- :) | 07:16 |
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| Tired | no, must have skipped that line :) | 07:20 |
| Tired | so there is a big change | 07:20 |
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| Tired | well, we'll see - the few times I tried to use the N810 as a sip phone... people on the other end had difficulties hearing me | 07:22 |
| Tired | even though connection should have been good | 07:23 |
| microlith | well | 07:23 |
| microlith | the N810 was never intended for that purpose | 07:23 |
| Tired | you can't say that | 07:23 |
| microlith | my point is that the N900 is entirely intended for phone use | 07:23 |
| microlith | so the N810's behavior when put in that position is not necessarily indicative of how the N900 will fare | 07:24 |
| Tired | maybe, maybe not... the overall design is still quite similar and I'm not sure what the problem was | 07:24 |
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| Tired | one weak point might have been where the microphone was hidden | 07:25 |
| GAN800 | lol | 07:26 |
| GAN800 | It's interesting what people can manage to convince themselves will be dealbreaker-grade defects based on, well, nothing. | 07:27 |
| lopz | gn ;) | 07:27 |
| GAN800 | Bye, lopz! | 07:28 |
| lopz | ;) | 07:28 |
| Tired | you're overinterpreting... or referring to something else | 07:28 |
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| luke-jr_ | GAN800: for me, at least, the N810's price-to-feature ratio was very close. I wouldn't have bought it for $201, just $200. | 07:29 |
| luke-jr_ | failure of the GPS to work pushes it over the edge-- in fact a real dealbreaker had I known of it | 07:29 |
| Tired | the GPS works! | 07:29 |
| luke-jr_ | N810 minus working GPS was not worth $200 to me | 07:29 |
| luke-jr_ | Tired: no, it doesn't really. | 07:29 |
| Tired | only didn't work in Evanston | 07:29 |
| Tired | when I was driving around a bit on vacation, it got a fix within a couple of seconds | 07:29 |
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| luke-jr_ | Tired: it's extremely unreliable, buggy, and closed so nobody can fix it | 07:30 |
| Tired | I thought it didn't work trying it here in town, but a bit outside the crowded area, it was ok | 07:30 |
| luke-jr_ | regardless, it does not serve my needs | 07:30 |
| luke-jr_ | I would not have bought my N810 if I knew of these issues | 07:30 |
| luke-jr_ | so while it might seem like no big deal to GAN800, it certainly is a deal-breaker problem for me | 07:31 |
| Tired | it does suit my little needs... | 07:31 |
| luke-jr_ | not that it makes the N810 totally worthless-- just not worth $200 to me | 07:31 |
| luke-jr_ | personally, my N810's usage is limited to wardriving | 07:32 |
| Tired | but... admittedly a lot of the great sounding features do not work as well as one would have hoped | 07:32 |
| luke-jr_ | on the rare occasion the GPS gets a fix | 07:32 |
| luke-jr_ | perhaps part of my frustration also stems from the fact that it is so close to being what I need, but yet beyond grasp | 07:33 |
| Tired | like... haven't gotten a good picture from the camera either | 07:33 |
| luke-jr_ | nobody makes what I want. :( | 07:33 |
| Tired | not tried outside with daylight, though... still | 07:33 |
| luke-jr_ | webcam was just a nice bonus for me | 07:33 |
| Tired | make your own! | 07:33 |
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| luke-jr_ | Tired: make my own handheld? :/ | 07:33 |
| Tired | yeah... take a screwdriver... | 07:33 |
| luke-jr_ | I've considered it, but I'm not certain it's possible | 07:33 |
| luke-jr_ | Are SoC pins hand-managable? | 07:34 |
| microlith | what pins? | 07:34 |
| microlith | heh | 07:34 |
| luke-jr_ | ... | 07:34 |
| luke-jr_ | no pins? | 07:34 |
| microlith | have you seen the underside of an OMAP? | 07:34 |
| microlith | all balls there | 07:34 |
| luke-jr_ | no | 07:34 |
| luke-jr_ | I don't have $ to waste on parts I might not be able to use. which means I can't evaluate them really. | 07:34 |
| microlith | I'm sure you could try, but it'd be a mass of tightly packed wires | 07:35 |
| luke-jr_ | besides, I wouldn't be using an OMAP | 07:35 |
| Tired | your model might end up weighing 40 pounds and being ... slightly (cough) bigger than expected... but else it'dll be great! | 07:35 |
| luke-jr_ | more likely s3c6410 or i.MX515 | 07:35 |
| luke-jr_ | Tired: it's useless to me if it doesn't fit in my pocket | 07:35 |
| Tired | luke-jr_, the solution is simple: get a bigger pocket! | 07:35 |
| luke-jr_ | also, I could probably only barely lift 40 lbs, let alone carry it in my pocket | 07:36 |
| Tired | luke-jr_, saves money on the fitness studio, too! | 07:36 |
| luke-jr_ | ... | 07:36 |
| Macer | man | 07:36 |
| luke-jr_ | Tired: did I mention 40 lbs is over 35% of my own weight? :p | 07:36 |
| Macer | want to fuck with my touchbook already | 07:36 |
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| Macer | sure hope it shows up tomorrow | 07:37 |
| luke-jr_ | Macer: please, don't sexually abuse your equipment | 07:37 |
| microlith | yeah, pretty much any modern ARM chip is going to be some form of BGA package, which makes it hard to do anything with the raw chips | 07:37 |
| Macer | will be interesting to see the os also | 07:37 |
| Tired | luke-jr_, I just read that as " did I mention 40 lbs is over 35% over my own weight?" ... phew | 07:37 |
| Macer | wonder why mer didn't use angstrom for mer | 07:37 |
| Macer | :) | 07:37 |
| luke-jr_ | Angstrom is like Gentoo | 07:37 |
| luke-jr_ | unstable | 07:37 |
| luke-jr_ | :p | 07:37 |
| Macer | haha | 07:37 |
| Macer | all linux is unstable | 07:38 |
| Tired | right | 07:38 |
| luke-jr_ | technically, Angstrom is derived from Gentoo | 07:38 |
| luke-jr_ | BitBake is a fork of Portage | 07:38 |
| Macer | uh oh | 07:38 |
| Macer | haha | 07:38 |
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| Tired | laters | 07:38 |
| Macer | except it doesn't suck? | 07:38 |
| luke-jr_ | Macer: it does suck. ;) | 07:38 |
| luke-jr_ | you've clearly never built an Angstrom image | 07:38 |
| Macer | heh | 07:38 |
| Macer | no | 07:39 |
| microlith | bitbake makes me crazy | 07:39 |
| Macer | going to use the stock tb stuff tho | 07:39 |
| Macer | hope it is ok | 07:39 |
| luke-jr_ | BitBake used to require over 2 GB of RAM by itself | 07:39 |
| Macer | at least as good as maemo4 | 07:39 |
| * microlith had his fill building openmoko for his A1200, on a machine far too slow with far too little ram | 07:39 | |
| Macer | get a better system :) | 07:39 |
| * luke-jr_ is sad the GTA03 was cancelled | 07:40 | |
| microlith | Macer: I did, it's a VM on my new hardware | 07:40 |
| Macer | heh | 07:40 |
| Macer | then get a tb and make useful things | 07:40 |
| microlith | well I've got scratchbox going | 07:40 |
| Macer | like a jre and arm openoffice port | 07:40 |
| Macer | :) | 07:40 |
| microlith | hey now | 07:40 |
| luke-jr_ | microlith: why? | 07:41 |
| microlith | why what? | 07:41 |
| luke-jr_ | does anyone actually use scratchbox anymore? :p | 07:41 |
| Macer | although i don't see a need for a "port" | 07:41 |
| microlith | luke-jr_: maemo sdk? | 07:41 |
| * luke-jr_ runs | 07:41 | |
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| microlith | heh | 07:41 |
| Macer | shouldn't openoffice just require a jre? | 07:41 |
| luke-jr_ | microlith: Maemo isn't worth attention | 07:41 |
| Macer | :) | 07:41 |
| microlith | ... | 07:41 |
| microlith | then why are you here? | 07:41 |
| Macer | seeing as java is supposed to be cross platform universal and all | 07:41 |
| luke-jr_ | common channel for Nokia devices | 07:41 |
| Macer | don't knock luke-jr_ .. he has provided the world with his n8x0 gentoo abortion | 07:42 |
| Macer | which required use of maemo modules :) so doesn't that count? | 07:43 |
| luke-jr_ | Macer: it's not an abortion until slonopotamus and I sell our N810s :p | 07:43 |
| Macer | haha | 07:43 |
| luke-jr_ | Macer: Maemo components are only required because of Nokia's evilness | 07:43 |
| Macer | get a tb and you will | 07:43 |
| Macer | i suppos e the tb is like a q7 with better hw and a battery keyboard | 07:44 |
| samad | hello | 07:44 |
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| luke-jr_ | Macer: tb won't fit in my pocket. thus, useless. | 07:44 |
| luke-jr_ | samad: o hai thar | 07:44 |
| Macer | get bigger pockets | 07:45 |
| Macer | you going to get an n900? | 07:45 |
| luke-jr_ | dunno | 07:45 |
| Macer | wait.. that might not fit in a pocket either | 07:45 |
| Macer | heh | 07:45 |
| luke-jr_ | #FreeHandheld | 07:45 |
| luke-jr_ | uh | 07:45 |
| luke-jr_ | N900 is smaller than N810 last I checked | 07:45 |
| Macer | thicker from what i heard | 07:46 |
| jysky | it's actually smaller than n97 :) | 07:46 |
| samad | i am installing gst-plugins-0.8.9.tar.gz but there shows error when i command apt-get update | 07:46 |
| Macer | i always thought the n810 itself would have made an awesome phone | 07:46 |
| luke-jr_ | not too thick | 07:46 |
| samad | W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' | 07:46 |
| samad | W: GPG error: http://cz.archive.ubuntu.com dapper Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' | 07:46 |
| samad | W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems | 07:46 |
| samad | the error is | 07:46 |
| samad | W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' | 07:46 |
| samad | W: GPG error: http://cz.archive.ubuntu.com dapper Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' | 07:46 |
| samad | W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems | 07:46 |
| microlith | gahhh, pastebin please | 07:46 |
| luke-jr_ | N810 is about half as thick as is acceptable | 07:46 |
| Macer | if they just made it like one and added the 3g modem | 07:46 |
| Macer | samad: wow. that was an awesome way to not get help | 07:47 |
| luke-jr_ | samad: .tar.gz is source, not a package | 07:47 |
| Macer | n810 is an awesome phone size | 07:47 |
| luke-jr_ | phones are stupid | 07:47 |
| luke-jr_ | handheld computer + bluetooth headset | 07:47 |
| Macer | heh | 07:47 |
| Macer | that would work too | 07:47 |
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| Macer | if only wimax actually was widespread | 07:48 |
| Macer | so you could use skype anywhere | 07:48 |
| ShadowJK | heh | 07:48 |
| Macer | too bad wimax is fail | 07:48 |
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| luke-jr_ | Skype is fail too | 07:48 |
| luke-jr_ | heck, Skype is more fail than WiMax | 07:48 |
| Macer | skype is fine | 07:48 |
| luke-jr_ | Skype is a virus | 07:49 |
| Macer | $3/month | 07:49 |
| luke-jr_ | malware | 07:49 |
| ShadowJK | regular voip works awesomely | 07:49 |
| luke-jr_ | ftl | 07:49 |
| Macer | compared | 07:49 |
| luke-jr_ | ShadowJK: yes | 07:49 |
| ShadowJK | (and you can choose your client) | 07:49 |
| luke-jr_ | ShadowJK: though not on N810 | 07:49 |
| Macer | heh | 07:49 |
| Macer | cant say ive ever had a problem with skype | 07:49 |
| Macer | i got actual cordless phones with the router to cordless thing | 07:50 |
| Macer | they work great | 07:50 |
| luke-jr_ | Macer: fail | 07:50 |
| Macer | and at $3/month unlimited calls.. i think that is worth it | 07:51 |
| luke-jr_ | bet that "unlimited" is a blatent lie | 07:51 |
| Macer | i tether my skype wifi phone to my g1 since the skype app for it was utter fail | 07:51 |
| luke-jr_ | ... | 07:51 |
| Macer | luke-jr_: er.. i don't know... i've never had to pay more than $3 a month | 07:51 |
| luke-jr_ | Macer: bet you can't receive 10 calls at once | 07:52 |
| luke-jr_ | and conference them | 07:52 |
| Macer | maybe not. but i dont usually have to or want to talk to 10 people at once at home | 07:52 |
| luke-jr_ | see, there's a limit | 07:52 |
| Macer | haha | 07:52 |
| Macer | sure if you go into extreme circumstances | 07:53 |
| luke-jr_ | 2 calls is certainly not extreme | 07:53 |
| luke-jr_ | but can you even do that? | 07:53 |
| luke-jr_ | doubt it | 07:53 |
| Macer | dont know. i hate just making 1 call to 1 person | 07:53 |
| Macer | only person i really talk to is a girl i was dating a little while ago.. everybody else can send me an email | 07:54 |
| Macer | haha | 07:54 |
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| Macer | or if i have to make a personal business call | 07:55 |
| Macer | which usually doesnt require 10 people conferenced | 07:55 |
| luke-jr_ | Macer: how about instead of wasting money on these useless things, you buy me a HTC Touch Pro2 and I'll let you know when I get it working fully? ;) | 07:55 |
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| Macer | uhm | 07:55 |
| Macer | i have a g1 now that it a total piece of shit | 07:55 |
| luke-jr_ | yes, a G1 would be | 07:55 |
| Macer | why get another htc piece of shit to replace the one i have? | 07:56 |
| Macer | :) | 07:56 |
| luke-jr_ | cuz TP2 isn't a piece of **** | 07:56 |
| luke-jr_ | it's actually quite nice | 07:56 |
| Macer | liar | 07:56 |
| Macer | you are rationalizing your bad purchase | 07:56 |
| Macer | :) | 07:56 |
| luke-jr_ | I haven't bought one yet | 07:56 |
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| Macer | you are rationalizing your bad future purchase | 07:57 |
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| Macer | my g1 tops out using sftp | 07:57 |
| Macer | haha | 07:57 |
| luke-jr_ | TP2 has 288 MB RAM | 07:58 |
| Macer | i get 20K/s just because the cpu can't keep up | 07:58 |
| Macer | i get 20K/s just because the cpu can't k | 07:58 |
| Macer | 288? | 07:58 |
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| Macer | thought the max was 256 for arm | 07:58 |
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| luke-jr_ | no | 07:58 |
| luke-jr_ | 32-bit ARM has a max of at least 3 GB | 07:59 |
| luke-jr_ | like every other 32-bit arch | 07:59 |
| Macer | 4? | 07:59 |
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| Macer | thought 32bit allowed for 4GB of mem addressing | 07:59 |
| luke-jr_ | addressing | 07:59 |
| luke-jr_ | x86 uses 1 GB for PCI and stuff | 07:59 |
| luke-jr_ | not sure if ARM might need something similar | 08:00 |
| Macer | wow.. it uses that much for hardware? | 08:00 |
| Macer | what a whore | 08:00 |
| studen2 | guys i can not install/find the driver for this cable (adapter) | 08:00 |
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| studen2 | http://translate.google.com.ly/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-108177729-cabo-de-dados-usb-ca-50-nokia-2760-2630-2660-1208-1680-_JM&ei=ZR_MSvL0GNWH4QbL1In0BQ&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=3&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522CABO%2BDE%2BDADOS%2BUSB%2BCA-50%2522%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG | 08:00 |
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| luke-jr_ | Macer: remember 32-bit x86 was designed when people had 64 MB RAM max ;) | 08:00 |
| luke-jr_ | no doubt the top 1 GB was seen as an impossible to hit mark | 08:01 |
| ShadowJK | oh great | 08:02 |
| ShadowJK | my gigabit switch just died | 08:02 |
| * ShadowJK wondered if it was the PSU and swapped around DC cable from the otherwise identical, but 100mbit, switch | 08:02 | |
| ShadowJK | there were lots of sparks | 08:02 |
| Macer | hahaha | 08:02 |
| Macer | oops | 08:03 |
| Macer | maybr just bad soldering | 08:03 |
| luke-jr_ | ... | 08:04 |
| luke-jr_ | ShadowJK: fail | 08:04 |
| samad | luke-jr, i am implementing camera for Nokia N900 and used | 08:05 |
| samad | gst_x_overlay_set_xwindow_id(GST_X_OVERLAY(data),GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW(widget->window)); | 08:05 |
| samad | compilation error 0 | 08:05 |
| samad | but when run the appication it shows | 08:05 |
| samad | undefined symbol: gst_x_overlay_get_type | 08:05 |
| ShadowJK | ping reply from freenode: 200 secs | 08:05 |
| ShadowJK | not bad considering I rerouted my LAN :-) | 08:06 |
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| frals | wow talk is sloooooooooooow atm | 08:06 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 08:09 |
| frals | lo o/ | 08:10 |
| * ShadowJK finally manages to compile MPlayer-svn with VFP, maybe, for maemo4 | 08:12 | |
| * RST38h hoped MPlayer only used fixed point math | 08:14 | |
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| MaceN8x0 | haha | 08:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1254892163616.jpg | 08:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | wow nature is amazing | 08:16 |
| RST38h | not as amazing as applied art: http://i056.radikal.ru/0910/f0/62effd0e0132.jpg | 08:17 |
| microlith | woodenhippose.cx | 08:17 |
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| ShadowJK | RST38h, yeah it's mostly fixed point | 08:19 |
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| ShadowJK | RST38h, I think VFP contains some useful non floating point stuff though? | 08:19 |
| RST38h | microllith: the original comment was "behemoatse" | 08:19 |
| ShadowJK | I guess I should look at what dsputil_vfp.S actually contains, heh | 08:19 |
| RST38h | Shadow: Not VFP. | 08:19 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah seems dsputil_vfp only has floating point stuff | 08:20 |
| MaceN8x0 | RST38h, hahaha | 08:20 |
| ShadowJK | vector_fmul, vector_fmul_reverse, float_to_int16... Sounds suspiciously sound-related | 08:21 |
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| RST38h | Shadow: Just checked, all instructions appear to be fp | 08:22 |
| RST38h | Shadow: Both DSP and ARM9+ have got vector instructions though | 08:22 |
| ShadowJK | no code for DSP in mplayer/ffmpeg | 08:23 |
| RST38h | NEON may help =) | 08:23 |
| ShadowJK | I think ffmpeg's arm maintainer summed it up well: | 08:24 |
| ShadowJK | <falkk_> how can I use the DSP isntructions | 08:25 |
| ShadowJK | <av500> 1) you pick your favorite arm to dsp framework | 08:25 |
| ShadowJK | <av500> 2) you write your dsp code | 08:25 |
| ShadowJK | <av500> 3) you write arm side code to interface your dsp code using the framework from 1) | 08:25 |
| ShadowJK | <mru> 4) you develop a dislike for the framework from 3) | 08:25 |
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| ShadowJK | <mru> 5) you pick the next framework from the list | 08:25 |
| ShadowJK | Apologies for the paste ;) | 08:25 |
| ShadowJK | <mru> 6) goto 2) | 08:25 |
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| RST38h | in short: it sucks | 08:31 |
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| RST38h | Ehehehehe: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/2009/10/05/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/ | 08:38 |
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| RST38h | Here you have it, all racial preferences laid bare | 08:41 |
| Stskeeps | next up: your blood pressure determines if you are into stylus or thumb keyboards | 08:43 |
| RST38h | may well be =) | 08:43 |
| ShadowJK | would be interesting to see if it's correlated with eyesight | 08:43 |
| RST38h | Although I would go with the fingers shape first =) | 08:43 |
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| ShadowJK | how come the stylus is opaque anyway | 08:46 |
| ShadowJK | would be cool with one that was transparent except for the tip | 08:46 |
| RST38h | it is made from the stinger of the Opaque Stylus Bee | 08:47 |
| luke-jr_ | RST38h: um, that's not really racism. | 08:48 |
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| tigert | who needs a stylus anyway | 08:48 |
| luke-jr_ | sure, it's racial preferences, but people have a right to have such preferences for personal relationships like on a dating site | 08:48 |
| luke-jr_ | it's not like negative discrimination where a less qualified candidate is chosen for a job because of his race | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | tigert: i still find stylus useful at times with fremantle desktop | 08:49 |
| ShadowJK | it'd be interesting to see what that survey looks like in if it had been done in, for example, Brazil, Ghana, Turkey, China and Japan too | 08:51 |
| JoeBrain | your-lepracy-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/ | 08:51 |
| JoeBrain | leprosy* | 08:51 |
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| RST38h | luke: as far as us political correctness is concerned this article is racist =) | 08:56 |
| RST38h | Shadow: you need a multiracial country for that | 08:57 |
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| RST38h | Shadow: i.e. Canada, UK, or Russia would work but not Turkey or China | 08:57 |
| RST38h | Anyways, work. | 09:02 |
| ShadowJK | The results would be interesting anyway, considering the internet using population of those places might not be as generic as in the US | 09:02 |
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| MaceN8x0 | wow | 09:21 |
| MaceN8x0 | i encoded some mp4s with like wayyyy too low of a bitrate | 09:21 |
| MaceN8x0 | they look horrible | 09:22 |
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| * johnx finishes work stuff, packs | 09:24 | |
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| sarower | Good morning all, | 09:34 |
| sarower | I am using the camera API in my home applet. But if I use the API, "gst_x_overlay_set_xwindow_id(GST_X_OVERLAY(data),GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW(widget->window));" the applet does not open. | 09:35 |
| johnx | mornin' sarower | 09:35 |
| johnx | are you able to do it if you don't use an overlay? | 09:36 |
| sarower | And it shows the error "undefined symbol: gst_x_overlay_get_type" during launch | 09:36 |
| sarower | johnx: how I can do without using overlay? | 09:37 |
| sarower | johnx: I do not know the way actually | 09:37 |
| johnx | ah, I don't actually know...I figured there might be a similar function to do that without an overlay, but I'm not much of a programmer (and I definitely haven't used the camera API or gstreamer) | 09:38 |
| sarower | johnx: Oh ok Thank you very much for your reply | 09:39 |
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| johnx | though it's interesting that you get an undefined symbol... | 09:39 |
| johnx | is this for maemo4 or 5? | 09:39 |
| sarower | maemo 5 beta 2 | 09:39 |
| johnx | so no way to test it on the device anyways | 09:40 |
| johnx | and also, just so you know, the final SDK was just released | 09:40 |
| sarower | johnx: But i will now install final release | 09:40 |
| sarower | and let see what happen! | 09:40 |
| johnx | good luck :) | 09:40 |
| sarower | Thank you | 09:40 |
| sarower | Any body else! Who knows about this! | 09:41 |
| johnx | timeless, could you put up the cross reference for maemo5? (when you get a chance, of course) | 09:42 |
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| tigert | Stskeeps: sometimes in the browser one wouls like stylus | 09:51 |
| tigert | Stskeeps: but i lost mine in april or so | 09:51 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 09:51 |
| tigert | so i learned to work without :) | 09:51 |
| tigert | and i dont really miss it qanymore | 09:52 |
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| tigert | smaller fingers would be useful sometimes ;) | 09:52 |
| johnx | I had the opposite experience. I got my first stylus at Maemo Danish Weekend :) | 09:52 |
| tigert | but not really :) | 09:52 |
| tigert | heh | 09:52 |
| * Stskeeps wonders where his n810 stylus is | 09:53 | |
| tigert | i feel thumb use is very comfortable as long as you manager to press the right things | 09:53 |
| tigert | because thumbs can reach the whole screen area without changing the way you hold the device | 09:54 |
| tigert | so even though its sometimes hard to hit links, its more comfrtable for me this way | 09:54 |
| tigert | zoom helps a lot too | 09:55 |
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| timeless | could someone w/ diablo ping me | 10:08 |
| Stskeeps | mm, what do you need? | 10:08 |
| adeus | a pong! | 10:08 |
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| MaceN8x0 | with diablo? | 10:08 |
| MaceN8x0 | er | 10:08 |
| johnx | sadly I have no devils here, just this N800 w/ Maemo 4.1.2 | 10:09 |
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| Myrtti | moin | 10:18 |
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| Stskeeps | morning Myrtti | 10:20 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | morning jaffa | 10:49 |
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| johnx | I *hate* comcast | 10:54 |
| johnx | my cellphone is a more reliable internet connection | 10:54 |
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| Stskeeps | wb johnx | 10:57 |
| johnx | thanks | 10:58 |
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| johnx | I can't remember ever having a less useful "internet" connection than comcast... | 10:59 |
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| RST38h | moorning all | 11:06 |
| johnx | m00f | 11:06 |
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| thux | morning | 11:08 |
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| thux | boafm seems to be one of those python apps which doesn't launch in my diablo | 11:10 |
| thux | some py apps do launch others doesn't | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | n800 or n810? | 11:12 |
| thux | n800 | 11:12 |
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| alterego_ | Have you tried running it from the command line? | 11:27 |
| alterego_ | See if there's any interesting output | 11:27 |
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| thux | it says:"TypeError: argument of type 'NoneType' is not iterable" | 11:33 |
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| thux | File "/usr/bin/boafm", line 297, in __init__ if 'useMokoui' in self.config: before that line | 11:35 |
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| RST38h | moo wazd | 12:04 |
| wazd | heya all :) | 12:05 |
| wazd | Still waiting for wizard with internets tube :) | 12:05 |
| RST38h | internet plunger, you mean? =) | 12:06 |
| wazd | Cable guy :) | 12:07 |
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| Stskeeps | anyone around who knows how EU VAT payments work? :P | 12:11 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: To your local tax agent? | 12:11 |
| RST38h | Sts: added to the price of goods, not? | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | i'm just wondering cos i'm invoicing and the VAT is supposed to be 0% between companies in different EU countries it seems to | 12:12 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Ah, that is easy. | 12:12 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Just put their VAT number on the invoice and use 0% tax. | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | okay | 12:13 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: You can't have it easier than that ;) | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | well now i have to read some contracts through cos i'm utterly confused :) | 12:13 |
| RST38h | well he can drop this stuff completely, that would be easier | 12:13 |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: I mostly invoice between EU countries. It is easier than invoicing locally ;) | 12:16 |
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| Stskeeps | ok, so you pay VAT locally of that amount? | 12:20 |
| X-Fade | Only on invoices of local companies. | 12:21 |
| X-Fade | *to | 12:21 |
| X-Fade | For within EU, you don't have to do anything. | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | k | 12:21 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: How about changing Extras-Testing votes to vote for the app, not for the particular package version? | 12:22 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: No, that is the whole point. | 12:23 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: You can have messed up a release. | 12:23 |
| RST38h | I could but then I would not promote it from Devel | 12:23 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Well, we don't trust you. | 12:23 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: That is what the whole QA is for. | 12:23 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: To prevent 'OOPS'. | 12:24 |
| RST38h | The problem with the current whole point is that I have to start every morning with going there and voting again for all the apps I like | 12:24 |
| * RST38h would like his vote to mean "I trust this guy and like his app, let him through" | 12:24 | |
| X-Fade | RST38h: There is an Extras round-table session planned at the Summit. You're invited. | 12:25 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Current means of oops-prevention are kinda radical, you can just disable any promotion at all and it will be even more oops-proof =) | 12:25 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Nah, you know yourself that it is easy to miss a problem. | 12:26 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Ok, I will drop by and say what I think | 12:26 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Do you really install every package you publish? | 12:26 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: I do. But I also know that with the current quality of apps in testing we can easily do with less draconian rules | 12:26 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Yes, I really install every package I publish to devel, BEFORE it goes to devel | 12:27 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: lol ;) 10 votes is draconian? | 12:27 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: for every package version is draconian | 12:27 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: 10 votes for an app sounds ok with me | 12:27 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Then develop apps for other platforms and come back when you have experienced them. | 12:27 |
| * RST38h does testing on his own packages before submission, is it abnormal? =) | 12:28 | |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Ironically, I do develop apps for other platforms: Windows, Unix, S60, bunch of embedded platforms | 12:28 |
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| X-Fade | RST38h: I'm pretty sure that uploading to Debian or Apple store is a lot harder. | 12:29 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade: Becoming part of Windows boxed distribution is even harder than that, so what? | 12:30 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: And 10 votes is really nothing when you have thousands of extras-testing users. | 12:30 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: You do not have thousands of extras-testing users. | 12:30 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: It is unfair to judge now there is no product available now. | 12:30 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: You do have thousands of maemo.org downloads users (judging from downloads) and very very few of them vote | 12:30 |
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| X-Fade | RST38h: You know that Nokia is aiming for bigger numbers with N900. | 12:31 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: So, there is some historical data and it does not look good | 12:31 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: You really can't compare that. | 12:31 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Why? | 12:31 |
| X-Fade | Sheer scale | 12:31 |
| RST38h | We do not really know what N900's scale will be. Impossible to say right now. | 12:32 |
| RST38h | But there may be a chicken and egg problem pretty close in the future (i.e. no apps in Extras because nobody votes, nobody votes because they do not see any apps) | 12:32 |
| X-Fade | Hehe, well we'll know soon. | 12:32 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: But I do think you have to be prepared to relax the Testing->Extras promotion rules | 12:33 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Come back in 3 months and then we will evaluate. | 12:33 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: I know the optimistic expectations on that, just not sure they will come true | 12:33 |
| X-Fade | Really no point to start with stop-energy right now. | 12:33 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Yea, should be known in 3 months... | 12:34 |
| RST38h | Still, better know of all the doorstops now than find out later =) | 12:34 |
| X-Fade | I think you are targetting the wrong audience. | 12:34 |
| RST38h | Targeting whoever is available =) | 12:35 |
| X-Fade | Maemo 5 is going to be a lot more mainstream then previous versions. | 12:35 |
| alterego | All of this can be explained to new users on Talk | 12:36 |
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| X-Fade | You just can't have broken apps for non-technical people. | 12:36 |
| alterego | And there's Ovi .. | 12:36 |
| alterego | I hope you guys have fun in Amsterdam, I'm gutted I can't attend. | 12:37 |
| alterego | But I'm going to Iceland on Sunday for a week :) | 12:37 |
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| RST38h | The host of a hit Brazilian TV crime show has disappeared after being stripped of the political immunity which prevented him being arrested on charges of arranging hits to boost his show's ratings. | 12:44 |
| RST38h | Reality finally catches up with fiction | 12:44 |
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| wazd | cable guy is in here!) | 12:46 |
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| aol_ | can anyone point me to OpenGL ES packages that I need to install | 13:04 |
| aol_ | google gives me no package names yet | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | on what OS? | 13:06 |
| alterego | Where's the link to the EULA for nokia-binaries? The documentation hasn't got a hyper link | 13:06 |
| alterego | 5.0 final | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | alterego: tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula i think | 13:06 |
| aol_ | Stskeeps: fremantle | 13:07 |
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| alterego | Cheers :) | 13:07 |
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| johnx | RST38h, still looking for the route from airport to hotel? | 13:10 |
| aol_ | basically I'm getting "QGLWidget: No such file or directory", even though I have all libqt4-opengl stuff installed | 13:11 |
| johnx | aol_, compiling for arm or x86? | 13:13 |
| vesa | aol_: is the fremantle final image out? | 13:13 |
| aol_ | x86 right now | 13:14 |
| aol_ | vesa: don't know, I built my own | 13:15 |
| vesa | righty ho | 13:15 |
| johnx | could you try compiling on ARM, just for fun? | 13:15 |
| aol_ | yes | 13:15 |
| aol_ | moment | 13:15 |
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| johnx | make sure to do a make distclean or whatever | 13:15 |
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| aol_ | ok, what does that do? | 13:16 |
| aol_ | I guess just clean everything | 13:17 |
| johnx | yeah | 13:17 |
| johnx | make clean = cleans objects/compiled stuff | 13:17 |
| johnx | make distclean = cleans config too (to make it just like when you untarred it) | 13:17 |
| aol_ | nope, same error | 13:17 |
| johnx | and you have the file it complains about? | 13:18 |
| aol_ | yeah but cant share it :( | 13:18 |
| johnx | huh? I don't want it :P | 13:18 |
| johnx | it seems like a path issue of some sort | 13:18 |
| aol_ | heh | 13:19 |
| aol_ | QGLWidget is the first one it does not find | 13:19 |
| aol_ | I'll search for it | 13:20 |
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| LoCusF | bash: af-sb-init.sh: command not found <- while trying to set up the Maemo 5 SDK, I get this error, has anyone else experienced it? | 13:22 |
| aol_ | johnx: good point that x86 as it seems like there is no x86 target for the opengles | 13:22 |
| aol_ | johnx: seems to solve some of the later errors | 13:22 |
| johnx | LoCusF, are you in sb or outside it? | 13:23 |
| johnx | aol_, when you said you can't share it: do you mean it's some custom lib that your project links against internally? | 13:23 |
| LoCusF | johnx: inside | 13:24 |
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| LoCusF | johnx: though my maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh got an error during the packages installation, because one package could not be downloaded | 13:25 |
| LoCusF | Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/x/xutils-dev/xutils-dev_7.4+4_i386.deb Connection timed out [IP: 213.155.157.16 80] | 13:25 |
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| johnx | LoCusF, yeah. anything that depended on that will have failed to install ... | 13:25 |
| X-Fade | LoCusF: WHat happens if you retry? | 13:26 |
| johnx | your sdk install is probably mostly not there | 13:26 |
| LoCusF | johnx: yeah | 13:26 |
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| LoCusF | X-Fade: I get an error that target names already exist | 13:26 |
| LoCusF | gotta remove them and try again | 13:27 |
| LoCusF | yep it was not installed properly :/ | 13:29 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: How's it going with the autobuilder update? | 13:29 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Waiting for Nokia. | 13:29 |
| alterego | Damnit, the SDK doesn't work very well when you're using a remote XServer :/ | 13:29 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Grr. | 13:29 |
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| X-Fade | LoCusF: target needds to be removed with -y option. | 13:29 |
| wazd | yarrr, cable internets! | 13:30 |
| johnx | wazd, they work ok when your ISP remembers to enable the "route packets" option on their routers ... | 13:31 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: We have to be cautious now, don't want to mess up just before the summit. | 13:32 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: But it seems a solution is coming up soon. | 13:32 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Yeah. | 13:32 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: The most safe option was to wait.. | 13:33 |
| alterego | "GLIB WARNING ** ClutterX11 - Failed to get XImage of pixmap: 6001cd, removing" :( | 13:34 |
| LoCusF | X-Fade: sb-menu worked ok :) | 13:34 |
| alterego | So none of the applications have any content. | 13:34 |
| X-Fade | LoCusF: good. SDK bug has been filed for this issue. | 13:34 |
| X-Fade | * will be | 13:34 |
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| LoCusF | hmm, its still not found ... this is weird, all went ok this time | 13:41 |
| alterego | Hrm, now I'm just getting a twitter widget | 13:42 |
| fatal^ | is there some documentation about install files like http://repository.maemo.org/extras/install/extras.install ? | 13:45 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Presumably going back to the beta SDK isn't an option; because you got too far through the update before hitting the problems? | 13:45 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yeah and the devices in peoples hands can/will differ too much. | 13:46 |
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| X-Fade | qt for instance is now available in the SDK. | 13:46 |
| X-Fade | Which makes dependency checking change. | 13:47 |
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| gaspa | I just installed the new sdk, but i'm not able to use the keyboard inside xephyr, is it a fault of mine or an issue of this sdk? | 13:51 |
| aol_ | johnx: you were right, it was path issue | 13:51 |
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| aol_ | johnx: there was qmake -project done so the needed modules were gone | 13:52 |
| aol_ | newbie mistake, but I'm quick learner :) | 13:52 |
| johnx | aol_, glad to here you're sticking to it :) | 13:53 |
| johnx | can be hard to get a dev env setup, but I think it gets easier after that | 13:53 |
| aol_ | actually this is rather nice, I get rarely such opportunity to learn new and get paid for it ... usually I learn stuff on my freetime for fun :) | 13:54 |
| _marcell_ | gaspa: how so? no response to any of your keypresses or something different? | 13:54 |
| gaspa | _marcell_: found, I started Xephyr with -kb... | 13:55 |
| aol_ | johnx: the dev env is hard to setup, but qt creator seems really nice ... just waiting for the maemo sdk integration, I heard some rumors it would be out soon | 13:55 |
| gaspa | as wrote in the docs, but a read through man deligth me ;) | 13:55 |
| _marcell_ | gaspa: it works for me either with -kb or without, just the layout is different | 13:55 |
| gaspa | oh, strange, then. | 13:56 |
| johnx | aol_, usually a vm disk image appears once the sdk is out for a while. | 13:56 |
| johnx | definitely the way to go | 13:56 |
| gaspa | there's no response at all, with -bk | 13:56 |
| gaspa | -kb | 13:56 |
| _marcell_ | gaspa: I have ubuntu jaunty, 32 bit. the only difference for me is -kb gives the fi layout without the alt-gr key, so no "@" in xephyr for me, and omitting the -kb gives the us layout | 14:00 |
| gaspa | _marcell_: giving another try... | 14:00 |
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| gaspa | _marcell_: mm... now it works ... well, don't know... | 14:03 |
| wazd_ | weeeee!) | 14:03 |
| _marcell_ | gaspa: ghost in the machine :) | 14:03 |
| gaspa | surely. | 14:03 |
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| gaspa | _marcell_: anyway, thanks. | 14:04 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_: net? | 14:04 |
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| RST38h | network back up and working? | 14:05 |
| * wazd_ cries in the rain :D | 14:06 | |
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| RST38h | Rinet delivered? =) | 14:07 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: Akado :) | 14:10 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: I'm not in the center right now :) | 14:10 |
| RST38h | Oh... | 14:10 |
| wazd_ | So, what exciting have I missed\?) | 14:12 |
| Stskeeps | sdk release, maemo.gitorious.org .. | 14:13 |
| jeremiah | I think the gitorious release is awesome | 14:13 |
| jeremiah | Very cool | 14:13 |
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| zerojay | http://zerojay.com/misc/metroidwallpaper.zip - Metroid NES loopable wallpaper + .desktop file | 14:15 |
| johnx | zerojay, hot. I want one for super metroid though :) | 14:16 |
| tigert | why zip? | 14:16 |
| suihkulokki | yeah, all the cool guys use rar | 14:16 |
| X-Fade | How about deb? :) | 14:17 |
| EspadaV8_W | ... new SDK? | 14:17 |
| EspadaV8_W | out of beta? | 14:17 |
| frals | yes | 14:17 |
| EspadaV8_W | O>O | 14:17 |
| * EspadaV8_W missed the news | 14:17 | |
| zerojay | X-Fade: Someone's supposed to be working on a template as far as I know. | 14:17 |
| wazd_ | dataplan monitor looks wrong | 14:18 |
| zerojay | wazd_: How? | 14:18 |
| EspadaV8_W | frals: got a link to what's new? | 14:18 |
| zerojay | johnx: Maybe tonight. | 14:18 |
| wazd_ | you can replace "uploadrd" and "downloaded" with small icons and make in 2x smaller | 14:18 |
| frals | cant remember, think its linked in the talkthread about it | 14:18 |
| johnx | zerojay, really? :D how are you making them? normal screenshots? | 14:19 |
| zerojay | wazd_: How is that "wrong"? | 14:19 |
| wazd_ | zerojay: well, it can be better :) | 14:19 |
| zerojay | johnx: Directly ripping the tile data from the ROMs, but yeah. | 14:19 |
| wazd_ | zerojay: I mean that | 14:19 |
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| zerojay | wazd_: Post on the thread for it... personally I think more icons would make it look far too busy. | 14:20 |
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| wazd_ | zerojay: Now I'm loaded with highspeed cheap internet and ready to rumble :) | 14:21 |
| zerojay | lol | 14:21 |
| zerojay | Enjoy.. gotta head off to work. | 14:21 |
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| * wazd_ wonders where's "download all" button | 14:22 | |
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| javispedro | hello | 14:25 |
| wazd_ | javispedro: heya | 14:26 |
| javispedro | hi wazd_, having proper connectivity now? :) | 14:26 |
| wazd_ | javispedro: yeahbaby! :D | 14:31 |
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| RST38h | zerojay: how about MarioWorld wallpaper? =) | 14:35 |
| RST38h | (the SNES version of course, NEWS one is too simplistic) | 14:36 |
| RST38h | s/NEWS/NES | 14:36 |
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| wazd | RST38h: T9 fails :) | 14:37 |
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| Honeyman | Hi all. Anybody has an idea why QT4 in debian still uses libqt4-core package name rather than libqtcore4? | 14:39 |
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| Honeyman | in maemo | 14:39 |
| javispedro | that was changed quite recently iirc. | 14:39 |
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| Honeyman | Changed? | 14:40 |
| javispedro | yes, in Fremantle. | 14:40 |
| Honeyman | In Debian, it seems was changed to quite the opposite direction | 14:40 |
| wazd | I guess there's no Virtual SDK image for m5? | 14:40 |
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| wazd | Quim posted a link but there's nothing there | 14:41 |
| Honeyman | They have libqtcore4 as primary package and libqt4-core as transition package (depends on libqtcore4) | 14:41 |
| Honeyman | Even though they have 4.5.2 | 14:41 |
| javispedro | true. | 14:41 |
| javispedro | the version on the SDK seems from june | 14:42 |
| RST38h | wazd: Brain fails at T9 algorithm =) | 14:42 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://s47.radikal.ru/i116/0910/99/4ccff2ced1b9.jpg <- what do you think? | 14:42 |
| Honeyman | javispedro: Is there any more recent version available somewhere? | 14:42 |
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| javispedro | Honeyman: dunno. ask -developers, I think it's a good question. | 14:43 |
| Honeyman | javispedro: thanks | 14:43 |
| javispedro | in diablo I have the newer naming already, and diablo is at 4.5.0 still. | 14:43 |
| Honeyman | javispedro: Hmm. Thought you mean #maemo-developers | 14:44 |
| javispedro | er.. at 4.5.2 too, but the new naming was in use since 4.5.0 | 14:44 |
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| javispedro | Honeyman: no, I meant the mailing list. | 14:44 |
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| RST38h | wazd: NEED-TENTACLES | 14:46 |
| RST38h | (seriously though, it looks like there won't be difference between desktops 1/3 and 2/4) | 14:46 |
| koala_man | if you have a phone, say N900, with maemo.. do you get a root shell and such? | 14:49 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 14:49 |
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| Stskeeps | just install rootsh, the first uploaded package in extras :) | 14:49 |
| wazd | RST38h: meh :) | 14:49 |
| Stskeeps | or enable r&d mode but rootsh acts better | 14:49 |
| koala_man | can you replace the entire factory ui with your own stuff? | 14:49 |
| Stskeeps | koala_man: you can even boot your own kernel and rootfs | 14:50 |
| koala_man | awesome | 14:50 |
| koala_man | how does that work in conjunction with the phone features? like, how do you make a call if you boot your own kernel? | 14:51 |
| johnx | the phone hardware *probably* shows up as a serial port and a sound input/output, but it'd be up to you to make it work | 14:51 |
| johnx | s/probably/might/ | 14:51 |
| infobot | johnx meant: the phone hardware *might* shows up as a serial port and a sound input/output, but it'd be up to you to make it work | 14:51 |
| Robot101 | I think the kernel stuff for talking to the cellular modem (phonet protocol and high-speed serial bus) is merged in linux-omap at least | 14:51 |
| Robot101 | there's firmware and parts in userland too | 14:52 |
| Robot101 | and pulseaudio with magic plugins | 14:52 |
| Honeyman | javispedro: just for my curiosity; in diablo, are there both two packages, with libqtcore having the libs and libqt4-core being transitional? | 14:52 |
| koala_man | sounds truly awesome. I recently machine washed my phone, and I'm looking for something that supports open development | 14:52 |
| javispedro | Honeyman: yes | 14:53 |
| Honeyman | Cool. So generally, we should expect the same in freemantle one day. | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | koala_man: as long as you are OK with some degree of blobs, you'll feel right at home | 14:53 |
| javispedro | but those packages were done by gnuton (ping?) | 14:53 |
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| koala_man | Stskeeps: what are the blobs used for? | 14:56 |
| Stskeeps | koala_man: the rule is that 80% is open, 20% closed. but nokia's pretty open about usage of them on the same device | 14:57 |
| koala_man | device drivers? | 14:57 |
| Honeyman | I am curious what is the status of pyqt4 on freemantle... maybe I am doing the work already done by someone. | 14:58 |
| Macer | ok | 14:58 |
| Macer | today has to be the day | 14:58 |
| Macer | the touchbook shall arrive | 14:58 |
| Stskeeps | koala_man: n900 kernel is fully open afaik. some things like 3d libraries and battery management and cell modem is closed | 14:58 |
| Macer | i feel it heh | 14:58 |
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| Macer | it is like... 10 miles from here. if it doesnt make it here today i am going to be very disappointed with our postal system | 14:59 |
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| aspect | what cell module (hardware) is n900 using? | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | nokia's own probably | 15:09 |
| aspect | that would make sense :) | 15:10 |
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| aol_ | how do I get root access on xterm on N900? My colleague did it to my previous device, but now I need to have it on a fresh one | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | aol_: enable maemo extras, install rootsh, sudo gainroot? | 15:11 |
| aol_ | ok | 15:12 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: or just type: root ;) | 15:12 |
| aol_ | yeah 'root' was the way I was using the previous device :) | 15:12 |
| aol_ | stskeeps: thanks for the advice! | 15:13 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade: Poor General will have to fight another security freak on Wiki with "maemo5 is unsafe!" fetish | 15:16 |
| RST38h | or maybe freaks | 15:16 |
| javispedro | RST38h: WANT, where? | 15:17 |
| X-Fade | Sign, anther person not able to spell Fremantle. :) | 15:18 |
| X-Fade | s/Sign/Sigh/ | 15:19 |
| RST38h | Fermantle it is. Lay it to rest. =) | 15:19 |
| infobot | X-Fade meant: Sigh, anther person not able to spell Fremantle. :) | 15:19 |
| javispedro | argh. | 15:19 |
| LoCusF | is there a way to change the pybattery theme to LCARS? | 15:19 |
| Honeyman | Oh god. I managed to start learning Maemo, to install beta 2 SDK and other stuff, just before there released final SDK. Now have to reinstall all this stuff again | 15:19 |
| javispedro | Honeyman: it's Fremantle, not Freemantle. | 15:19 |
| RST38h | javis: Ah, that thing is about one year old now, the culprit either got tired or got hospitalized | 15:19 |
| Honeyman | javispedro: uh, I misspelled it in my email? | 15:20 |
| RST38h | javis: But I am sure N900 release will bring all kinds of funny characters out of the woodwork | 15:20 |
| javispedro | Honeyman: if you've sent it recently, yes. | 15:20 |
| javispedro | RST38h: fun stuff. | 15:20 |
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| * Honeyman facepalming myself | 15:21 | |
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| Honeyman | Anybody knows, is it still libqt4-core rather than libqtcore4 in final Fremantle SDK? | 15:30 |
| javispedro | Honeyman: yes. | 15:30 |
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| javispedro | I updated to it yesterday. | 15:31 |
| LoCusF | hmm, now I got the af-sb-init.sh started but only thing I see is a twitter shortcut :D | 15:32 |
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| alterego | LoCusF: are you using Xephyr on a remote host? | 15:35 |
| alterego | My scratchbox environment is inside a KVM vm and Xephyr is running on the hardware host, and I have that problem. | 15:35 |
| alterego | It's quite odd though, if you restart it, you get one of three different behaviours | 15:36 |
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| wazd | I can hack SMW wallpaper a bit | 15:38 |
| wazd | so it would be looped no matter how many homescreens are enabled | 15:38 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Btw, any progress on that ti73 skin? =) | 15:39 |
| wazd | RST38h: haven't started yet | 15:39 |
| RST38h | got it | 15:39 |
| wazd | RST38h: I'll try to do it this evening | 15:40 |
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| RST38h | wazd: ...and if the cpu load gods are merciful, I will even be able to commit the package into extras-devel tonight :) | 15:42 |
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| LoCusF | alterego: nope, on my local host | 15:44 |
| LoCusF | matchbox: No composite extension | 15:44 |
| LoCusF | matchbox-window-manager: *Error* OOM? | 15:44 |
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| wazd | theme maker works | 15:46 |
| wazd | let's see what he'll do :) | 15:46 |
| RST38h | in a way, yes | 15:46 |
| sulx | anyone started "porting" mythtv to fremantle? =) | 15:47 |
| wazd | looks like it just makes sources :( | 15:48 |
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| wazd | damn, I can't even try my theme in the SDK, what an irony :( | 15:49 |
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| ensi | can someone summarize what libosso is? | 15:51 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Want an idea? | 15:55 |
| RST38h | wazd: Commit to extras-devel / fremantle / free and let others test it =) | 15:56 |
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| RST38h | Not sure how to make it pass autobuilder though | 15:56 |
| wazd | RST38h: I don't care bout others, I want to test my theme somewhere :D | 15:56 |
| johnx | if anyone responded to me: I missed your message | 15:57 |
| RST38h | wazd: SDK does not work? | 15:58 |
| samppa | ensi: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/libosso/ | 15:58 |
| * RST38h has not tried yet, as SB2 still does not have the Maemo5 SDK | 15:58 | |
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| ensi | samppa: i wasnt asking for the details just want to know what it does | 15:59 |
| samppa | https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/libosso/README | 15:59 |
| samppa | ensi: you can see from the api docs what it does | 16:00 |
| wazd | RST38h: It doesn't matter if it works or not, I can't make a deb on my own | 16:01 |
| ensi | "Libosso is a wrapper library for user applications for platform-specific, | 16:01 |
| ensi | frequently-used D-Bus services. Thus, it should not contain anything | 16:01 |
| ensi | that is not platform-specific -- ideally Libosso should not exist. | 16:01 |
| ensi | that is what i was looking for | 16:01 |
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| RST38h | wazd: this means thememaker does not work =) | 16:01 |
| ensi | samppa: a bunch of details is not the same as an overall description | 16:01 |
| RST38h | wazd: thememaker 1.22 actually COULD make a deb | 16:01 |
| wazd | btw, I'd rather remove icons from al these small widgets | 16:02 |
| wazd | waste of space | 16:02 |
| samppa | ensi: hehe do you need that kind of answer to some school excercise :) | 16:02 |
| RST38h | wazd: yyou had to replace dpkg-deb in its directory with dpkg-deb from your host system and rename a DEBIAN directory | 16:02 |
| RST38h | But then it worked | 16:02 |
| ensi | samppa: no, im trying to get the hang of maemoa architecture in order to do some work :| | 16:03 |
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| samppa | ensi: ok then this is good for you: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide | 16:04 |
| samppa | ensi: i expect you to develope for maemo5 | 16:04 |
| ensi | yeah i know this link thanks | 16:04 |
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| aSIMULAtor | hi | 16:11 |
| Stskeeps | wello | 16:11 |
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| aSIMULAtor | oh | 16:12 |
| aSIMULAtor | http://www.youtube.com/maemo5uiteam | 16:12 |
| aSIMULAtor | spread the love and spread the URL :P | 16:12 |
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| * Stskeeps looks | 16:13 | |
| RST38h | Asimulator: ! | 16:13 |
| X-Fade | Oh, I know those uncomfortable weird chairs in the lobby ;) | 16:14 |
| RST38h | Asimulator: You guys are almost making me switch from using an ASCII file in C:\ to your calendar app =) | 16:14 |
| ensi | nice english in the vids, cant find someone who can actually speak english? | 16:14 |
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| X-Fade | ensi: I think it is a lot better to let the team show their stuff than some fancy marketing company? | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | ensi: could have been worse, finland could have had dubbed tv instead of subtitles | 16:16 |
| samppa | hehe | 16:16 |
| RST38h | ensi: To me, their English is ok. Does nto have to be perfect. | 16:17 |
| aSIMULAtor | ensi: i mean, most finns are billigual or trilingual | 16:17 |
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| glass__ | most finns that you run into on the net anyways | 16:17 |
| aSIMULAtor | considering they CAN speak english it's a great thing | 16:17 |
| aSIMULAtor | well i'm sure in one of the videos coming out there will be a native english speaker | 16:18 |
| aSIMULAtor | hope that will be a breath of fresh air :P | 16:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Native english speakers can speak it remarkably badly :) | 16:18 |
| cosmo | at least in London most people speak terrible english | 16:20 |
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| Shapeshifter | but when sliding the finger to change the month, there's no sliding animation or something | 16:24 |
| Shapeshifter | ver little feedback | 16:24 |
| Shapeshifter | *very | 16:24 |
| johnx | IMNSHO, I think it's really cool that the UI team gets to do the demos | 16:26 |
| RST38h | aSIMULAtor: interface with an online service is sorely needed, better Google Calendar | 16:27 |
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| RST38h | aSIMULATor: A lot of people I know use Google Calendar to sync all their calendars | 16:27 |
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| aSIMULAtor | unfortunately i cannot comment on features | 16:28 |
| johnx | aSIMULAter, I've heard rumors that it supports months between 28 and 31 days. Can you confirm or deny this feature? :D | 16:29 |
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| aSIMULAtor | :P | 16:32 |
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| * RST38h now procmails all emails with koi8 subjects into /dev/null. Disgusting. | 16:52 | |
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| qwerty12 | Including e-mails from fellow Russians? | 16:52 |
| RST38h | qwerty: I do not get email in koi8, have not got any for years | 16:53 |
| qwerty12 | Ah | 16:53 |
| RST38h | Not even getting email in cp1251 | 16:53 |
| jysky | who uses cp1251 anyway? | 16:53 |
| RST38h | Windoze people | 16:53 |
| RST38h | Video substitlers | 16:53 |
| jysky | but they can do utf-8 also | 16:53 |
| RST38h | utf-8 is a pain to work with | 16:54 |
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| Shapeshifter | utf-8 is not pain to work with | 16:54 |
| RST38h | a lot of tools for subtitling do not support it | 16:54 |
| jysky | eh? | 16:54 |
| RST38h | Shape: For someone who only sees it occassionally, it is not | 16:54 |
| RST38h | jysky: eh. | 16:54 |
| jysky | utf-8 is most certanly not pain to work with, it's the people who doesn't use it that is the pain | 16:54 |
| alterego | UTF, is a pain to work with, | 16:54 |
| alterego | Especicially in languages that don't support it yet .. | 16:55 |
| RST38h | jysky: well, it is of no difference to someone who has to "fix" a bunch of .srt files done in utf8 | 16:55 |
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| jysky | easily done with a script of sort :) | 16:55 |
| RST38h | jysky: Because his video player just happens not to support them | 16:55 |
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| RST38h | Anything can be done, it is amount of effort that matters | 16:56 |
| jysky | one might wanna to rethink if player is good enough to use | 16:56 |
| RST38h | it is | 16:56 |
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| RST38h | I tried alternatives, way way worse | 16:56 |
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| RST38h | (in other aspects of course) | 16:57 |
| jysky | indeed | 16:57 |
| jysky | well it's all about choises | 16:57 |
| RST38h | it is all about self-inflicted buggery | 16:57 |
| RST38h | whoever tells you that it is all about choices is wrong :) | 16:57 |
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| alterego | Grrrr | 16:59 |
| jysky | depending how you want to live, if it is ok to live in cave then you can choose to do so BUT... :) | 16:59 |
| Shapeshifter | well... mplayer does utf8 and it clearly is the best player >.> | 16:59 |
| RST38h | jysky: no, that's not what I mean | 16:59 |
| RST38h | jysky: I meant that you usually get to choose between a wet cave, a cold cave, and a cave full of vampiric bats | 16:59 |
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| Shapeshifter | RST38h: you're harming humanity by converting things _away_ from utf8 | 16:59 |
| Shapeshifter | that's insane | 17:00 |
| Shapeshifter | and should be punishable | 17:00 |
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| Shapeshifter | all the hard work of finally getting utf8 everywhere | 17:00 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: I am killing them and disposing of their corpses riiight after using them =) | 17:00 |
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| Shapeshifter | ok | 17:00 |
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| RST38h | jysky: So, yes, choice is good, but having at least one good choice is better :) | 17:01 |
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| jysky | :) | 17:09 |
| wazd_ | is it barcode birthday today or something? :) | 17:09 |
| jysky | yeah | 17:10 |
| wazd_ | Ti 73 is a hellokitty calc :) | 17:10 |
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| aol_ | do you guys know the Qt .pro file scope is for Fremantle ? | 17:13 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!... | 17:15 |
| * RST38h runs for the hills | 17:15 | |
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| RST38h | wazd: BTW, maybe I should randomly load the hello kitty skin on Sundays or something | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | yes, doing math on sundays is sinful | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:16 |
| qwerty12 | s/on sundays// | 17:17 |
| RST38h | Or check personal data for feminine forms of last names and turn on the hello kitty for girls | 17:17 |
| fiferboy | aol_: I think it is Q_OS_FREMANTLE | 17:17 |
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| fiferboy | aol_: I know hildon in general is Q_WS_HILDON | 17:17 |
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| fiferboy | aol_: Yep, Q_OS_FREMANTLE | 17:18 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: in fact it looks like Ti 83+ | 17:18 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: easy to remake | 17:18 |
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| aol_ | fiferboy: that's the macro for compiler, but what is the scope in the .pro file? or is it really that one? | 17:18 |
| RST38h | wazd: That is because TI73 *is* TI83+ | 17:18 |
| RST38h | wazd: But some functions have different functions on ti73 | 17:18 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: buttons are different :) | 17:18 |
| aol_ | like "win32-g++" | 17:19 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: heya :) | 17:19 |
| fiferboy | aol_: Ah. I don't think it has a separate one from hildon | 17:19 |
| RST38h | s/functions/buttons sorry | 17:19 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: Hey! Happy barcode birthday! | 17:19 |
| aol_ | fiferboy: ok, what is it in hildon? | 17:19 |
| fiferboy | hildon | 17:19 |
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| aol_ | fiferboy: ok :) thanks! | 17:19 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: saw you're rocking with zillions of desktop applets :P | 17:19 |
| fiferboy | aol_: But it isn't quite working right now. | 17:19 |
| fiferboy | It needs to be added to the default qmake spec config line | 17:20 |
| fiferboy | I have to talk to Antonio about that | 17:20 |
| * JosefAssad is trying real hard not to pre-order a N900 | 17:20 | |
| fiferboy | wazd_: Well, three :) | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | At the MAX 2009 conference Adobe demonstrated a new version of Flash, 10.1, running on the Nokia N900. | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | interesting | 17:20 |
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| javispedro | JosefAssad: no mms! no full portrait mode support! not 100% open source! | 17:20 |
| javispedro | ;) | 17:20 |
| RST38h | Sts: This is not a joke? | 17:21 |
| RST38h | Sts: Real news? | 17:21 |
| JosefAssad | javispedro: but... but... emacs on a cellphone with a hardware keyboard... | 17:21 |
| * JosefAssad sulks | 17:21 | |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: there's even a video, seen it? | 17:21 |
| RST38h | Josef <== geek. | 17:21 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: it was on planet.maemo.org | 17:21 |
| aol_ | fiferboy: yeah seems it does not work, I'll try to experiment with that qmake config | 17:21 |
| RST38h | You should ask Myrtti for the HelloKitty emacs theme, too | 17:21 |
| JosefAssad | RST38h: manager, thank you. :) | 17:21 |
| wazd_ | NERDALERT!11 | 17:21 |
| JosefAssad | heh | 17:22 |
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| fiferboy | aol_: You have to add it to the config line in /usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/default/qmake.conf | 17:22 |
| aol_ | thanks | 17:23 |
| fiferboy | NP | 17:23 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: try to remove applet icons | 17:23 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: I'll draw some improvements for you | 17:24 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: You mean when they are on the desktop? | 17:24 |
| fiferboy | wazd_: Thanks | 17:24 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: after ti 73 skin though :P | 17:24 |
| fiferboy | Of course | 17:24 |
| RST38h | 8) | 17:24 |
| fiferboy | Hello Kitty comes first... | 17:24 |
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| cosmo | anyone got good recipe how to get debian package version to a #define in compilation? | 17:28 |
| cosmo | i'd not prefer updating the number manyally to different places.. | 17:29 |
| Flyser | Is it right, that it's currently not possible to up-/download fremantle widgets or applications on maemo.org? | 17:29 |
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| Stskeeps | Flyser: builder is currently sleeping as to not break everything due to final SDK release | 17:31 |
| X-Fade | I hope to awake it again today.. | 17:33 |
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| X-Fade | If I manage to get all the right files in place ;) | 17:33 |
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| qwerty12 | X-Fade: Don't worry, if you get it wrong, you'll find an angry mob at the Summit with pitchforks... | 17:35 |
| javispedro | and torches.. | 17:35 |
| X-Fade | qwerty12: I only need to rebuild the complete repo then. | 17:35 |
| X-Fade | qwerty12: No pressure or anything. | 17:35 |
| qwerty12 | Exactly. :) | 17:35 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: btw, one little question... why does conboy ( http://maemo.org/packages/view/conboy/ ) get the bugtracker link while drnoksnes does not? | 17:36 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Are you using Xsbc-Bugtracker ? | 17:37 |
| javispedro | X-Fade. Think so (maybe it's misformed). The funny thing is that Conboy is not. | 17:37 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: I did a run last week where I edited every item, by hand. | 17:37 |
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| javispedro | ah. well, i'll try to see what's going on with the bugtracker field. | 17:38 |
| X-Fade | You can check the Packages file. | 17:38 |
| X-Fade | See if there is a Bugtracker: entry in there for your app. | 17:38 |
| javispedro | apt-cache show drnoksnes in fremantle x86 shows it. | 17:38 |
| javispedro | I currently have this in debian/control: | 17:40 |
| javispedro | XSBC-Bugtracker: | 17:40 |
| javispedro | https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?func=add&group_id=1014&atid=3790 | 17:40 |
| javispedro | (newline intented) | 17:40 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Xsbc-Bugtracker | 17:40 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: notice case. | 17:40 |
| javispedro | ah, didn't know it mattered. sorry :P | 17:40 |
| X-Fade | And no newline. | 17:40 |
| X-Fade | Or at least, I don't support that probably ;) | 17:41 |
| javispedro | it goes over 80-columns | 17:41 |
| X-Fade | Then I guess there is where the problem lies. | 17:41 |
| Captain_Picard | any news about releasedate? | 17:41 |
| Captain_Picard | november or next week? | 17:42 |
| javispedro | I mean, without a newline the line is more than 80 chars. | 17:42 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Yeah, so I have to change the parser. | 17:42 |
| javispedro | I dunno how debian handles urls longer than > 80 chars. | 17:42 |
| javispedro | other than breaking them.. | 17:43 |
| qwerty12 | TinyURL? ;P | 17:43 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Depends lines are most of the time much longer. | 17:43 |
| javispedro | X-Fade: but they can be word wrapped. | 17:43 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Yes | 17:43 |
| javispedro | harder with URLs :S | 17:44 |
| javispedro | so I leave the newline as is and correct case. | 17:45 |
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| X-Fade | Yeah, I just need to fix that on my end. | 17:46 |
| javispedro | sorry for the long url hehe :P | 17:46 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: You should move to bugzilla anyway. | 17:46 |
| ml-something | :/ damn you nokia, ship my phone! | 17:46 |
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| javispedro | True, at least the bug tracker. | 17:47 |
| javispedro | I tend to use the feature request tracker as my ToDo list and that would win me free karma in bugzilla, which is not fair. | 17:47 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: "XSBC-" is the Debian standard prefix. | 17:47 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: I haven't found a clear doc on that, it seems to be used in both cases. | 17:49 |
| javispedro | the only doc I found is http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s5.7 | 17:49 |
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| javispedro | they're upper case there, but does not say it matters. | 17:50 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: It works with uppercase for you too. | 17:50 |
| X-Fade | Bugtracker: https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?func=add&group_id=1014&atid=3790 | 17:50 |
| X-Fade | So no need to change.. | 17:50 |
| rob-bo | I have a question about installing the SDK | 17:51 |
| X-Fade | And others who use lowercase also work. | 17:51 |
| javispedro | ok then, thanks! | 17:51 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Capitals seems to be the Debian docs way, so that should be the canonical way for packages etc. | 17:51 |
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| RST38h | http://www.openscreenproject.org/ | 17:56 |
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| coldboot | I did some write performance tests on the Nokia n810, and writes to the primary internal card are 4.4 times faster than writes to the secondary. However using sqlite, doing database row commits are 20 times faster on the primary card. | 18:02 |
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| X-Fade | Running hermes test build on new fremantle autobuilder ;) | 18:05 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: Cool. 0.0.6 doesn't have a C component now, so the build-package is a bit noddy. 0.0.5 is more interesting if you want a complexer test | 18:05 |
| Jaffa | 0.0.6 is all Python to try and improve the robustness for people like tigert | 18:06 |
| SpeedEvil | coldboot: some bencmark that can do simple contiguous write, or block random write in various sizes might be more enlightneing. | 18:06 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yeah, but I have some more demanding apps lined up ;) | 18:06 |
| * Jaffa grins | 18:06 | |
| X-Fade | fwiw, it succeeded. | 18:06 |
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| RST38h | SpeedEvil,coldboot: This kind of benchmarking has been done before, I would search t.m.o first | 18:06 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 18:07 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: vala for instance? | 18:07 |
| SpeedEvil | also on other flash memory types | 18:07 |
| frals | Any bambuser feeds or similiar planned for the presentations at the summit? | 18:08 |
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| crashanddie | how can I change the PIN of an n800 if I don't know it? | 18:11 |
| Stskeeps | 0000 is a good bet | 18:12 |
| X-Fade | 12345 | 18:12 |
| Stskeeps | ah, es | 18:12 |
| coldboot | RST38h: What's t.m.o? | 18:12 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: is that like a universal backdoor? | 18:12 |
| crashanddie | coldboot: talk.maemo.org | 18:12 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: No, that is in the docs ;) | 18:13 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: just default. | 18:13 |
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| coldboot | crashanddie: The word "performance" is not found at all in all of the forums... | 18:13 |
| coldboot | Random question? | 18:14 |
| coldboot | Nevermind... | 18:14 |
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| coldboot | The "random question" thing should be more prevalent so you can see it, if it should be there at all. | 18:14 |
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| coldboot | Is there a program in Linux to track how much IO a specific program is doing, or how much IO has happened on the entire system to a particular volume? | 18:16 |
| sulx | iotop? | 18:17 |
| SpeedEvil | io to a particulat volume can be got htrough proc | 18:18 |
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| X-Fade | Hmm it seems to be building vala now, so that would mean I at least managed to get the Applications repository working ;) | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | what is Applications supposed to have in it anyway? | 18:23 |
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| qwerty12 | Pitchfork-wielding Summit goers downgraded to just having sticks | 18:23 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: It is the Nokia signed repo, which is enabled by default on the device. | 18:24 |
| Stskeeps | k | 18:24 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: This is where all commercial 3rd party apps are and also things like qt. | 18:24 |
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| Stskeeps | alright | 18:24 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Which means we need to be able to link against it. | 18:25 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah | 18:25 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: tadam | 18:25 |
| X-Fade | And believe me, there is some pain in getting and configuring that ;) | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | so you'll be having red eyes and a severe caffeine addiction during the summit? ;) | 18:27 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Let's just say that I will be writing my presentation on the train tomorrow. | 18:27 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Because this week was a bit heavy. | 18:27 |
| wazd_ | eeeek | 18:28 |
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| wazd_ | http://s14.radikal.ru/i187/0910/0f/2cb3803b9844.png <- Ti 73 | 18:28 |
| Myrtti | I've hacked the pin on N800 before | 18:28 |
| Myrtti | twas fun | 18:28 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Cool. So is Hermes 0.0.6 going to show up in extras-devel as an update for my extreme "I don't care about my contacts getting trashed" beta testers? | 18:30 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: If vala manages to pass, then I'm fairly confident. | 18:31 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: Sounds sensible | 18:35 |
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| X-Fade | Maybe I should build some qt4 app to be really sure... | 18:37 |
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| vladovg | hi | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | wello | 18:53 |
| vladovg | have a problem with app menager | 18:53 |
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| vladovg | it won refresh repositories from maemo http://repository.maemo.org/ | 18:55 |
| vladovg | giv a 404 | 18:55 |
| vladovg | erorr | 18:55 |
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| Robot101 | anyone in the UK looking for jobs working with Maemo, Debian, packaging/integration, etc? | 19:13 |
| X-Fade | lbt: -> Robot101 ? | 19:13 |
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| X-Fade | Robot101: Coming to the summit? | 19:14 |
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| Robot101 | X-Fade: alas no, I'm going to the GNOME summit instead | 19:15 |
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| X-Fade | Robot101: Your loss ;) | 19:15 |
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| Robot101 | we have quite a few people along at the maemo summit though, burger, marcoil, eean, treitter, barisione | 19:15 |
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| X-Fade | GAN800: Why are you not on a plane? | 19:17 |
| X-Fade | Robot101: Ok, well I would have suggested that there might be some people there who are interested. | 19:17 |
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| Robot101 | X-Fade: yeah, I'll make sure burger puts the word out :) | 19:18 |
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| X-Fade | Robot101: lbt is the Mer packaging guru and was looking for work a while ago. | 19:18 |
| X-Fade | Robot101: But I'm not sure if that is still the case. | 19:18 |
| Pavlov | ah maemo summit | 19:19 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: USPS fscked up GAN800's passport. He ain't coming now. | 19:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, less USPS and mostly the State Department. | 19:30 |
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| johns | Hi | 19:31 |
| * frals bashes head against the desk | 19:31 | |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, http://n900wallpapers.com/wallpaper/super-mario-world---yoshis-island-1 | 19:32 |
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| Pavlov | GeneralAntilles: that is awesome | 19:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Pavlov, zerojay's been doing a bunch. | 19:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pavlov, the Mars ones on there are great, too. | 19:34 |
| frals | could anyone nod me in the right direction if im looking for how to take control of a received sms on the n900? ;) | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | Robot101: should hire qwerty12 as a young worker | 19:35 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: open-wlan-cal: error while loading shared libraries: libopencal.so: cannot open | 19:35 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, err... how you did that? | 19:36 |
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| johnsQ | johnsQ: I build the ebuild. | 19:36 |
| Robot101 | frals: see if you can find docs for csd | 19:36 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, ldd `which open-wlan-cal`? | 19:36 |
| johnsQ | now talking to myself :( | 19:36 |
| Robot101 | frals: it should at least, in theory, be possible to register for certain classes/ports of SMSes to be delivered to you | 19:36 |
| frals | Robot101: csd, roger! thanks :) | 19:36 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: libopencal.so => not found | 19:37 |
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| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, ah, crap! i don't install so. | 19:38 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: yes i'm always lucky to install broken packages | 19:38 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, i guess you're the first one who tried it :) | 19:39 |
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| Shapeshifter | A question about GtkVBox. I have a vbox with two fields, the lower contains a hbox with buttons in it, the upper contains a text entry widget. Now both fields use the same amount of screen space, 50/50. but I would like the text entry only to take as much space as neccessary, and give the rest of the space to the lower field. I set homogeneous to FALSE for the vbox but it's still the same. | 19:41 |
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| javispedro | Shapeshifter: have a look at the gtk_box_pack_start arguments. | 19:41 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, will fix in a couple of hours, for now you can copy it manually/make ebuild to install it/patch src/CMakeLists.txt to install it. | 19:41 |
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| Shapeshifter | javispedro: thanks. | 19:42 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: I will wait testing the package ebuild than. | 19:42 |
| timeless | hello cruel world | 19:42 |
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| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, be careful with open-cal-tool -R, please :) | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | heyo timeless | 19:43 |
| javispedro | hi timeless, the evil ones salute you. | 19:44 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: i wanted to test if the wlan-cal works, i still have no connection to my router. | 19:44 |
| timeless | so, i was supposed to figure out how i was staying in ams before i arrive | 19:45 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, err... you always can `chroot /mnt/initfs wlan-cal` | 19:45 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, actually we already do that in one of init scripts | 19:46 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: but this isn't working. i was playing around to find the bug. | 19:46 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, btw, why your Q grew up? :) | 19:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, there may be rooms open in Ibis. | 19:47 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, err... it works for me. luke-jr and (afaik) macer | 19:47 |
| Pavlov | ibis was full | 19:47 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: just typing failure to much development with camelcases. | 19:48 |
| Pavlov | as of yesterday, when i tried | 19:48 |
| Pavlov | at least the one in center | 19:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody may be able to pick up my slot if you don't mind rooming with VDVsx. ;) | 19:48 |
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| Jaffa | timeless: Room in the Ibis seems most sensible | 19:49 |
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| Jaffa | timeless: There are still gaps - just claim one: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Accommodation#Shared_Room_Allocations (maybe mention it to VDVsx) | 19:49 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, does original wlan-cal produce good output? | 19:50 |
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| johnsQ | slonopotamus: yes, it find the router but didn't connect. | 19:50 |
| slonopotamus | johnsQ, wep/wpa? | 19:51 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus: WEP hidden id using iwconfig. | 19:52 |
| slonopotamus | johnsQ, i always used wpa_supplicant... does diablo connect to it? or other gentoo boxes? | 19:53 |
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| johnsQ | slonopotamus: diable works fine, laptop works also (with wpa_supplicant) | 19:54 |
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| johnsQ | s/e/o/ | 19:54 |
| infobot | johnsQ meant: slonopotamus: diablo works fine, laptop works also (with wpa_supplicant) | 19:54 |
| slonopotamus | johnsQ, maybe try wpa_supplicant here too? | 19:55 |
| javispedro | by diablo you mean using diablo icd2 or using wpa_supplicant in diablo? | 19:55 |
| johnsQ | just using the gui, net manager to connect. | 19:56 |
| javispedro | wpa_supplicant may have some problems with cx3110x | 19:56 |
| slonopotamus | johnsQ, since i don't know if it is n8x0 specific or wireless-tools/your config problem | 19:57 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus: i traced it to the point, when i disable hiding the essid, everything works. but original n810 net-manager works also with hidden id. | 19:58 |
| javispedro | johnsQ: I was going to say that | 19:58 |
| javispedro | hidden ssids are problematic. | 19:58 |
| javispedro | are you using cx3110? | 19:58 |
| Shapeshifter | I don't understand how to do this without getting warnings from the compiler. It works, but I want to get rid of the warnings: I have GtkWidget *container_vbox; container_vbox = gtk_vbox_new (FALSE, 0); and later I do gtk_box_pack_start(GTK_CONTAINER(container_vbox), message, FALSE, FALSE, 0); but this raises: "example_color_selector.c:98: warning: passing argument 1 of 'gtk_box_pack_start' from incompatible pointer type". I think it should ... | 19:58 |
| Shapeshifter | ... be GtkBox instead of GtkWidget. But if I change this to GtkBox *container_vbox, then I get "warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type" when doing container_vbox = gtk_vbox_new (FALSE, 0); | 19:59 |
| javispedro | Shapeshifter: because gtk_vbox_new returns GtkWidget instead of GtkBox. | 19:59 |
| johnsQ | javispedro: yes the cx1110x module | 19:59 |
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| javispedro | johnsQ: I'd say you try the patched version | 20:00 |
| * javispedro googles | 20:00 | |
| Shapeshifter | javispedro: well yes, but how do I get a GtkVBox that is a GtkBox and not a GtkWidget | 20:00 |
| javispedro | johnsQ: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/cx3110x-devel/2007-November/000005.html | 20:00 |
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| Shapeshifter | or, what should I be doing instead? | 20:01 |
| johnsQ | javispedro: this patch is applied iirc | 20:01 |
| javispedro | Shapeshifter: "GTK_BOX(gtk_vbox_new(....))" | 20:01 |
| javispedro | johnsQ: dunno in Gentoo, but it's not in Diablo's initfs. | 20:01 |
| Shapeshifter | javispedro: I see. thanks. | 20:02 |
| johnsQ | javispedro: then i should try with out the patch. | 20:02 |
| javispedro | johnsQ: insmod the module from diablo's initfs. | 20:02 |
| javispedro | however precisely I doubt it'll work without the patch :S | 20:02 |
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| Stskeeps | lo qole | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | how is the coffeeshops? ;) | 20:03 |
| Jaffa | Yay, Hermes 0.0.6 built into extras-devel | 20:03 |
| Jaffa | qole: hiya | 20:03 |
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| Jaffa | qole: have you/timsamoff got different mobile phone numbers we should use for you? | 20:04 |
| timsamoff1 | Yes. | 20:04 |
| qole | yes | 20:04 |
| timsamoff1 | don't know what it is though. :p | 20:05 |
| Jaffa | timsamoff1: Send me an SMS? | 20:05 |
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| * Jaffa is meeting rsperberg (and possibly rm_you) at Shithole tomorrow at 08:20 before training in to Centraal | 20:06 | |
| qole | timsamoff and i went to amsterdam central via amsterdam south | 20:08 |
| RST38h | BTW, gentlemen, anyone knows of a decent SIM card I can get at Amsterdam for these few days? | 20:08 |
| RST38h | Mostly need it for data access | 20:08 |
| qole | "lets get on this train!" | 20:08 |
| qole | vodafone | 20:08 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: got the skin? | 20:09 |
| RST38h | wazd: A moment, checking | 20:09 |
| qole | 30 euros for everything | 20:09 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: http://i082.radikal.ru/0910/fb/b32c85598f55.png | 20:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, of course, as soon as I get my new router the DD-WRT site goes down. | 20:10 |
| * GeneralAntilles recalls, again, why he switched to Tomato. | 20:10 | |
| qole | tim and i are on vodafone... in a tapas restaurant with lcuk, sjgadsby, timsamoff, vdvsx, qole | 20:10 |
| johnsQ | javispedro: same effect, timeout during associate | 20:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tell VDVsx timeless is looking for a room and might be headed his direction. ;) | 20:10 |
| Xisdibik | qole: 30 euros for everything.... define everything on european standards :) | 20:11 |
| javispedro | johnsQ: can you confirm the gentoo cx3110x is patched? | 20:12 |
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| johnsQ | javispedro: we-18 patch should be applied | 20:13 |
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| qole | everything means a local phone # and unlimited 3.5 G internet | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | where did you buy it? | 20:14 |
| qole | vodaphone store | 20:14 |
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| Stskeeps | put info on wiki? :) | 20:15 |
| ccooke | Heh: http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/36 | 20:15 |
| Xisdibik | qole: how much are local calls though? | 20:15 |
| ccooke | Looks like the weather's seen us coming | 20:15 |
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| javispedro | johnsQ: I'd play with scan_ssid and ap_scan settings | 20:20 |
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| javispedro | johnsQ: on libicd-network-wpa I currently let wlancond associate with the AP then launch wpa_supplicant., but I remember getting it working using wpa_supp alone. | 20:21 |
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| Macer | got my touchbook | 20:21 |
| johnsQ | javispedro: i currently play with wpa_supplicant and wpa_cli | 20:21 |
| ShadowJK | macer: how is it? | 20:22 |
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| qole_ | reboot. | 20:22 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: i literally got it like 10 minutes ago | 20:22 |
| Macer | so far it is a disappointment | 20:22 |
| Macer | no battery meter | 20:22 |
| Macer | the keyboard layout kind of sucks | 20:23 |
| Macer | it tips | 20:23 |
| javispedro | johnsQ: wpa_supp=wpa_supplicant I mean. You can still play with the settings I mentioned. | 20:23 |
| Macer | has a "default user of ai | 20:23 |
| javispedro | only I don't know the exact wpa_cli syntax, only wpa_supplicant.conf. | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, meh, software. | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, software can be replaced. ;) | 20:23 |
| javispedro | johnsQ: and also try doing an iwconfig essid after wpa_supplicant inits the interface but before it tries to associate (for ex. between timeouts) | 20:24 |
| coldboot | sulx: Do you know how to get iotop on the device? | 20:24 |
| ShadowJK | the tipping was reported by everyone else too :) | 20:24 |
| Macer | GeneralAntilles: you can't stop the tipping with software | 20:25 |
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| Macer | maybe i will buy huge counterweights to put in the keyboard | 20:25 |
| Macer | and add like 4 | 20:25 |
| Macer | 5lbs to it | 20:25 |
| Macer | the keyboard layout kind of totally sucks | 20:25 |
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| Shapeshifter | Is there a way to get an image widget to show above a button title instead of just left and right? the buttons in my app are pretty much quadratic, and there's lots of space for an icon above the title. Seems like hildon_button_set_image_position only supports GTK_POS_LEFT and GTK_POS_RIGHT but not TOP or BOTTOM | 20:28 |
| * SpeedEvil loves yr.no http://www.yr.no/place/Netherlands/North_Holland/Amsterdam/hour_by_hour.html | 20:29 | |
| RST38h | wazd: No, I still have not got it. It is not in GMail inbox | 20:29 |
| frals | SpeedEvil: ye, yr.no is awesome :) | 20:29 |
| frals | btw, does anyone know how to simulate an incoming message on the sdk? | 20:30 |
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| wnd | Shapeshifter, "The HildonButton can hold any valid child widget". you could try to create a vbox or something and pack the image and the label inside it. | 20:34 |
| frals | hard to keep up with the forums while playing around in the sdk nowadays | 20:34 |
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| Shapeshifter | wnd: yeah. I'm trying to use GtkButton now as it apparently can do TOP and BOTTOM as well. | 20:37 |
| lopz | hey! | 20:37 |
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| wazd_ | RST38h: http://i082.radikal.ru/0910/fb/b32c85598f55.png <----- JackPot :D | 20:41 |
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| RST38h | wazd: acknowledged | 20:41 |
| RST38h | oh yesss | 20:41 |
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| aol_ | anyone know if opengl will work with x86 target anytime soon | 20:43 |
| aol_ | would be nice to use it in the emulator too | 20:43 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Got it, will make a package in a moment | 20:44 |
| aol_ | or better, if I can run armel target on emulator anytime soon? I guess you can run armel software on scratchbox already, but the xephyr does not support it for some reason? | 20:45 |
| wazd_ | wowsht, I've missed summit badges request | 20:45 |
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| wazd_ | well, can't be everywhere :) | 20:45 |
| javispedro | aol_: opengl es 2 already does. | 20:46 |
| javispedro | in x86. | 20:46 |
| javispedro | aol_: and also you can get powervr sdks now. | 20:46 |
| javispedro | however, there's no ogles2 armel emulator and probably there will never be. | 20:46 |
| RST38h | wazd: Get the damn passport ASAP | 20:47 |
| RST38h | wazd: Or you will miss the next summit =) | 20:47 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: I'm still collecting papers for army dep | 20:48 |
| RST38h | oh | 20:48 |
| aol_ | javispedro: hmm, ok so I should be able to run opengl es app on the emulator with x86 target? I need to try again today | 20:48 |
| javispedro | aol_: search for libgles2-dev package | 20:48 |
| javispedro | (or use powervr sdk) | 20:48 |
| aol_ | ok. thanks! | 20:48 |
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| glass | hmm. thats nice | 20:49 |
| aol_ | i'm getting rather exited with qt and maemo :P | 20:50 |
| aol_ | excited | 20:50 |
| javispedro | btw, dunno about qt glwidget, i never tried. | 20:50 |
| aol_ | I will let you know what happens | 20:50 |
| glass | aol_: yeh i got rather unexcited with qt-symbian with no opengl | 20:51 |
| aol_ | probably I'll try it tomorrow morning | 20:51 |
| javispedro | good luck. | 20:51 |
| aol_ | glass: are you doing qt stuff now? work? hobby? | 20:51 |
| javispedro | if you want a "bare" x11+egl sample, I have one in tmo.. | 20:51 |
| glass | aol_: mm.. both? or um, keeping skills intact. or something :D | 20:51 |
| aol_ | ok.. I'd like to more my project to Qt but I feel Qt is not mature enough at symbian side | 20:52 |
| aol_ | so I'll still use my own cross platform stuff | 20:52 |
| glass | yeh.. it's definetely worth the technology preview moniker.. | 20:52 |
| aol_ | I think OpenC is letting Qt down | 20:52 |
| aol_ | OpenC is the crappiest piece of code I've ever seen... but a bit offtopic here | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | /g 19 | 20:53 |
| glass | hehe.. actually i used openc for some sockets stuff lately for prototypetesting some shit | 20:53 |
| glass | worked like a charm for that purpose | 20:53 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Works beautifully =) Thanks! Will compile Diablo package shortly | 20:53 |
| glass | well. there were issues but anyhow | 20:53 |
| RST38h | aol: What is wrong with openc | 20:54 |
| RST38h | ? | 20:54 |
| EspadaV8 | updating to the final sdk from beta2, can i just rm -rf /scratchbox ? | 20:54 |
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| javispedro | EspadaV8: take care with that our you'll end up rm -rfing your home. | 20:54 |
| aol_ | rst38h/glass: I did one 1 year project. got serious brain injury from that. Basically it has a lots and lots of bugs. | 20:54 |
| javispedro | s/our/or/ | 20:54 |
| infobot | javispedro meant: EspadaV8: take care with that or you'll end up rm -rfing your home. | 20:54 |
| javispedro | EspadaV8: since sbox versions are the same afaik, just following upgrade instructions. | 20:54 |
| glass | aol_: yeh some friends of mine did gpg porting to symbian for project course for it | 20:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | EspadaV8: That's a little hardcore... I just did apt-get upgrade (I had sbox repo) to update Scratchbox and then just ran the SDK installer script which removed the old fremantle targets and then set up new ones | 20:55 |
| aol_ | they could have just picked up some libc implementation from open source wolrd and used that. but instead they implemented their own.... so sprintf throws expeptions, fopen quits after 65535 calls etc | 20:55 |
| RST38h | aol: What do you mean by bugs? It is just plain C isn't it? | 20:55 |
| EspadaV8 | qwerty12_N810: i don't use debian, gentoo user here ;) | 20:55 |
| EspadaV8 | javispedro: ah, i thought there were issues with upgrading | 20:55 |
| RST38h | hmm | 20:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | EspadaV8: Urgh... you're on your own, then ;P | 20:55 |
| glass | aol_: yeh and a lot of the stuff there was already available in symbian.. well of stuff that matters like zlib | 20:55 |
| EspadaV8 | and the scratchbox install script for beta2 doesn't have an uninstall option | 20:56 |
| aol_ | RST38h: well the posix functions dont work like they are supposed to. crap implementation. thats outsourcing to india for everybody.. | 20:56 |
| javispedro | EspadaV8: if you shutdown sbox properly you are safe. | 20:56 |
| javispedro | /etc/init.d/scratchbox stop in debian. | 20:56 |
| RST38h | aol: Oh | 20:56 |
| aol_ | (sorry if I offended any Indians with that remark) | 20:56 |
| glass | RST38h: it's not just plain c, it's just libraries to interface standard c like stuff to the underlying symbian libraries | 20:56 |
| javispedro | then check /proc/mounts to see if there's still something mounted around /scratchbox | 20:56 |
| RST38h | glass: As long as I get my main(), malloc(), and stdio, I am happy | 20:56 |
| glass | RST38h: yeh you get that but you got that before openc anyhow | 20:57 |
| aol_ | also getting posix time in seconds takes 50ms with OpenC | 20:57 |
| RST38h | wazd: Shit, can't make easter egg out of the Hello Kitty skin because it is for 84+SE and I still do not emulate that | 20:57 |
| aol_ | it's supposed to take like under 1ms ... but they can't program.... | 20:57 |
| RST38h | glass: I did not get main() | 20:57 |
| glass | RST38h: you did.. look for goboy sources if you want to know how.. | 20:57 |
| RST38h | Ah, I think I know what you mean | 20:58 |
| EspadaV8 | javispedro: cool, i don't start scratchbox by default, so i'll be fine :-) | 20:58 |
| * EspadaV8 crosses fingers | 20:58 | |
| javispedro | did you read that hint about checking /proc/mounts just to be sure? | 20:58 |
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| jeward | High, I currently tether happily on a Sprint Sero plan and have passed 40M of data through the phone in a month. | 21:00 |
| EspadaV8 | javispedro: http://espadav8.pastebin.com/d2573910b - looks fine to me | 21:00 |
| jeward | MY problem is, my phone is dying and I need to replace it. | 21:00 |
| jeward | What's the best current phone I can use to tether and stay on my cheap Sero plan? | 21:00 |
| javispedro | jeward: wrong channel I guess... | 21:01 |
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| jeward | What would the right channel be? | 21:01 |
| javispedro | dunno, but if you're asking, maemo can tether to most phones... | 21:01 |
| jeward | That's been my experience. I just don't know what newer phone to get to etther to. | 21:02 |
| jeward | tether | 21:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jeward, switch to a GSM network and get an N900? ;) | 21:02 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Please, fix the dput upload, at least for a second> | 21:02 |
| RST38h | ? | 21:02 |
| jeward | I'm very tempted to do just that! | 21:02 |
| sneakret | I'd pick a phone, then search for information on tethering with that phone. | 21:03 |
| jeward | Good idea. | 21:03 |
| jeward | I get conflicting reports about what I can use with my cheap plan though. | 21:03 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_, javispedro: using wpa_supplicant and while it is running iwconfig essid xxxx works. | 21:03 |
| sneakret | Are you using bluetoot DUN? | 21:03 |
| ShadowJK | shouldn't you ask your operator on their restrictions? | 21:04 |
| sneakret | If so, you just need to verify that bluetooth DUN works on the phone you want. | 21:04 |
| glass | if the operator has some model restrictions, thats highly operator specific | 21:04 |
| wazd_ | guys what do you think? http://s54.radikal.ru/i146/0910/c9/8a28bd1cda38.png | 21:04 |
| javispedro | johnsQ: aha, ta (since now I remember another reason I'm using wlancond in libicd-network-wpa :P ) | 21:04 |
| glass | probably they don't, if you got a sim card, just stick it into anything | 21:04 |
| jeward | I've tethered both my Mac and my N810 through my current phone: Palm Treo 755. | 21:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Some operators restrict the phone. | 21:05 |
| SpeedEvil | for example three.co.uk will kill your SIM if it's in a 2G phone | 21:05 |
| RST38h | wazd: | 21:05 |
| sneakret | GeneralAntilles: I wish I could reasonably switch to GSM and get an N900, but I have four people on my plan, so switching would be a big deal. :( | 21:05 |
| RST38h | wazd: How about replacing W/D with icons? | 21:05 |
| jeward | I read T-Mobile has made a change to stop unlocked iPhones from tethering. | 21:05 |
| sneakret | I've considered getting the N900 and a T-Mobile data-only plan. | 21:06 |
| RST38h | wazd: like, a little cloud icon, with arrow going up for upload, down for download? | 21:06 |
| glass | jeward: how they make it happen? | 21:06 |
| sneakret | but that's $40/month | 21:06 |
| javispedro | wazd: same as RST :) | 21:06 |
| microlith | sneakret: better than data + voice :/ | 21:06 |
| wazd_ | maybe just up/down arrow? :D | 21:06 |
| jeward | Yeahm, the data plans are getting steep all over. | 21:06 |
| javispedro | I would put a phone and green/red right/left arrows | 21:07 |
| RST38h | maybe, but then it won't be clear where this stuff is going :) | 21:07 |
| SpeedEvil | jeward: apple made a recent OS update which did that - reportedly | 21:07 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: well, like UP-load and DOWN-load :D | 21:07 |
| SpeedEvil | jeward: basically - if your telco isn't recognised, you can't tether. | 21:07 |
| sneakret | I guess the up-side to that T-Mobile solution is that I could also use that same SIM card in a computer... | 21:07 |
| wazd_ | javispedro: funny but first I've made dot with yellow/green arrows | 21:07 |
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| javispedro | :) | 21:08 |
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| EspadaV8 | wazd_: oooh, looks pretty | 21:08 |
| * EspadaV8 is sad though | 21:08 | |
| wazd_ | javispedro: But I thought it would be a bit annoying to have tiny bright spot | 21:08 |
| EspadaV8 | find out i have to return the n900 in a week | 21:08 |
| EspadaV8 | *found | 21:09 |
| wazd_ | EspadaV8: move to Cuba | 21:09 |
| EspadaV8 | cuba? | 21:09 |
| EspadaV8 | any reason? | 21:09 |
| javispedro | EspadaV8: disappearing from the public eye :) | 21:09 |
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| EspadaV8 | ahhh | 21:09 |
| EspadaV8 | lol | 21:09 |
| wazd_ | EspadaV8: and keep n900 :D | 21:09 |
| EspadaV8 | going to see if i can get it for another few weeks | 21:09 |
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| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, so, that effectively means that root of the problem is cx3110x + hidden ssid | 21:12 |
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| EspadaV8 | is there any kind of timeline for Maemo 6? | 21:13 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: yes. i wanted to tryout the opensource wlan driver, but this need newer kernel and linux-omap is currently broken for n810 | 21:13 |
| EspadaV8 | like, even a year | 21:13 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, err | 21:14 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, i sent you a link earlier | 21:14 |
| johnx_ | EspadaV8: more than a year | 21:14 |
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| Stskeeps | 2012, so the world can end before it comes out ;p | 21:17 |
| EspadaV8 | and if we know if the n900 will support it | 21:17 |
| wazd_ | another shot: http://i047.radikal.ru/0910/3e/63301b4d37bb.png | 21:17 |
| RST38h | EspadaV8: We do not | 21:17 |
| EspadaV8 | nnoooooo :( | 21:17 |
| EspadaV8 | i want to see it before then Stskeeps | 21:17 |
| * EspadaV8 wants to see Qt4 based Nokia phones :-D | 21:17 | |
| RST38h | wazd: Got an idea | 21:17 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: with the trick wlan seems to work, i can kill maemo on the device. | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | EspadaV8: 10 bucks they'll throw money after the community and let them build a variant | 21:18 |
| RST38h | wazd: Draw larger phone icon at the left, spanning both rows. Make arrows point to that phone | 21:18 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, oh! you got sound working? | 21:18 |
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| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, i recall you had some problems with mp3 | 21:18 |
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| EspadaV8 | Stskeeps: ? you mean to port maemo6 to the 900? | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | it's a great team building exersise. | 21:19 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: it runs. but don't use mad commandline, it has alsa device hardcoded, mpg321 -o alsa worked | 21:19 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: phone is too complicated | 21:20 |
| wazd_ | RST38h: imo | 21:20 |
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| wazd_ | RST38h: widget should be subliminal | 21:20 |
| EspadaV8 | i thought the U/D was nicer wazd_ | 21:20 |
| EspadaV8 | although i'd have the arrows pointing up/down | 21:20 |
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| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, i see. so, now you're a somewhat-happy-gentoo-on-n8x0-user? :) | 21:20 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: sound was now borken with maemo :(, don't know why. | 21:21 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, in maemo? | 21:21 |
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| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: yes in maemo. i think i must reflash diablo, but now i can kill it. | 21:22 |
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| slonopotamus_ | :) | 21:24 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: latest firefox compiles and didn't crash and i wrote my own picture/image viewer. | 21:24 |
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| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, tried smth based on webkit? | 21:25 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, should be faster | 21:25 |
| EspadaV8 | hmmm, arora should compile for the 900 | 21:25 |
| wazd_ | third shot: http://i020.radikal.ru/0910/4f/96fbd8ee5047.png | 21:25 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: yes, but icu-4.2 didn't compile on the device | 21:25 |
| * EspadaV8 might give it a go | 21:25 | |
| EspadaV8 | wazd_: O.O how much is your data plan? | 21:25 |
| wazd_ | EspadaV8: :D | 21:26 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, file a bug :) #gentoo-embedded guys are pretty helpful | 21:26 |
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| EspadaV8 | looks nice though | 21:26 |
| johnx_ | the phone company must love you wazd_ :P | 21:26 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, they'll need build log and emerge --info output | 21:26 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: i was trying to compile an older version, than we started talking about the wlan problem. | 21:27 |
| * EspadaV8 is unsure if coloured up/down arrows would be good | 21:27 | |
| wazd_ | EspadaV8: I don't think so | 21:27 |
| EspadaV8 | as it stands, it's nice and 'plain' | 21:27 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, i see | 21:27 |
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| EspadaV8 | is that in USD? | 21:27 |
| wazd_ | EspadaV8: colors are usually used to code something | 21:27 |
| wazd_ | EspadaV8: red = alert, green = something good | 21:28 |
| EspadaV8 | or like.... ZWD | 21:28 |
| wazd_ | EspadaV8: that's random number, relax :D | 21:28 |
| EspadaV8 | true | 21:28 |
| EspadaV8 | do they flash on activity? | 21:28 |
| EspadaV8 | ahhh, ok, lol | 21:28 |
| johnx_ | heh. the total should go red when it's twice your monthly salary :P | 21:28 |
| EspadaV8 | lol | 21:28 |
| wazd_ | johnx: in fact it's a good idea | 21:29 |
| wazd_ | johnx: go red when beyond limit | 21:29 |
| EspadaV8 | i thought everywhere did unlimited these days | 21:29 |
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| wazd_ | johnx: yellow when near it | 21:29 |
| johnx_ | should be easy to code I would think | 21:29 |
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| wazd_ | see, instead of icons we're doing something useful :) | 21:30 |
| javispedro | :) | 21:30 |
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| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, so... i'm happy that my project happenned to be useful for you :) | 21:31 |
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| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, btw, read about xorg-1.7? | 21:31 |
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| wazd_ | EspadaV8: well, you can turn off money tracker if you have unlim | 21:31 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, they say they fixed 255 keycode limit (Fn key problem) | 21:31 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: yes. i hope they add right button emulation to evdev, than all can be done with native xorg. | 21:32 |
| wazd_ | EspadaV8: but for those loosers like me it would be nice function :) | 21:32 |
| EspadaV8 | wazd_: yeah, i agree, it would be | 21:32 |
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| johnx_ | johnsQ: evtouch has right click emu | 21:33 |
| wazd_ | now we need to summon fiferboy :P | 21:34 |
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| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, what's wrong with tslib? | 21:34 |
| johnsQ | johnx_: yes but no official xorg package. | 21:34 |
| johnx_ | in gentoo? | 21:34 |
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| wazd | EspadaV8: and as for blinking icons - you'll see the activity just by looking at changing numbers :) | 21:35 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, i can hack up ebuild for it, if you want | 21:36 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: i don't recall, but it didn't worked for me. | 21:36 |
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| EspadaV8 | wazd: .... oh yeah | 21:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GAN8001: Under attack by the enemy? ;P | 21:37 |
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| johnsQ | johnx_: i fixed the evtouch, to compile with latest xorg server version. | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, trying to get my new WRT320N set up. | 21:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah, heh | 21:37 |
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| johnsQ | i don't understand why they didn't add it to evdev, nearly the same code used for the middle button emulation. | 21:38 |
| johnsQ | johnx_: evdev supports runtime calibration iirc | 21:39 |
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| johnx_ | I have no idea. just reporting what I've seen | 21:39 |
| johnsQ | i can add it to the window manager, than no need for driver support. | 21:41 |
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| johnx_ | can add it lots of places | 21:41 |
| johnx_ | It's easy to add it at the toolkit level as well, might be more flexible | 21:42 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: reboot worked, i added the iwconfig wlan0 essid to /etc/conf.d/local | 21:42 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, maaaagic :) | 21:42 |
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| acouto | hi all | 21:44 |
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| johnx_ | gah. sitting on a hard tile floor. butt falling asleep. catch you guys in 10+ hours | 21:45 |
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| acouto | is there a way to simulate a GPS in the scratchbox? Because i always have to leave to get a signal? | 21:48 |
| samppa | create a thread that calls your "changed" callback funcktion with fake values :) | 21:50 |
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| acouto | samppa, yep, thanks | 21:53 |
| samppa | acouto: np | 21:53 |
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| RST38h | moo ap | 21:54 |
| RST38h | zap | 21:54 |
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| samppa | acouto: it would be nice indeed if there would be somekind of dummy location service in the sdk which gives some random values if its used | 21:55 |
| Shapeshifter | has someone noticed that image widgets or images in general that contain orange color get changed to blue shades in the sdk for some reason? | 21:55 |
| javispedro | Shapeshifter: I hereby welcome you to the palette swap bug. | 21:55 |
| RST38h | wazd: the pay calculation is going to be a problem | 21:55 |
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| samppa | Shapeshifter: yeah for me the colours in the sdk are fucked up from time to time | 21:55 |
| javispedro | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4870 | 21:56 |
| timeless | yep, that's normal | 21:56 |
| wazd | RST38h: why? | 21:56 |
| RST38h | wazd: plans differ widely | 21:56 |
| * javispedro remembers he needs to change the subject.. | 21:56 | |
| RST38h | wazd: For example MTS charges different rates at day and night | 21:56 |
| RST38h | wazd: Vodafone has got a "free" limit of MB per month + additional data available at high rate | 21:57 |
| Shapeshifter | interesting. thanks | 21:57 |
| acouto | samppa, it's true | 21:57 |
| RST38h | wazd: Some other companies offer "unlimited" data plans with a cap | 21:57 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, then screw it :) | 21:57 |
| RST38h | yep | 21:57 |
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| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: media-sound/mpd also worked | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | sound with dsp tasks or without? | 22:08 |
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| johnsQ | Stskeeps: with dsp task helper | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | hmm? so you are having the properitary DSP tasks for sound/ | 22:09 |
| johnsQ | Stskeeps: i don't know slonopotamus_ build it, i only tested it | 22:09 |
| orbarron | hi all: just a quick question... I am trying to register a project on the garage but I see a "Do not use 'maemo' in the project- or in the Unix-name!" Does anyone know how Maemo on Beagleboard did it? Please help me understand this... | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | orbarron: maemo on beagleboard is a nokia project technically | 22:10 |
| orbarron | IC | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | what are you trying to register, out of curiousity? | 22:11 |
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| Stskeeps | orbarron: basically they try to avoid trademark issues by banning *maemo* in project names i think :P | 22:12 |
| orbarron | Stskeeps: I want to add a zoom project | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | omap zoom? an interesting device | 22:12 |
| orbarron | yes | 22:12 |
| orbarron | zoom2 to be correct | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | ah, yeah, even better ;) | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | it | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | 's on my list of things to buy to play with it | 22:13 |
| orbarron | that's what I wanted to hear... | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | orbarron: maybe port-zoom2 or something as a suggestion | 22:14 |
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| orbarron | All: anyother suggestions? | 22:14 |
| orbarron | thanks Stskeeps | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | orbarron: and if you have any questions re maemo's at times crazy portability issues, feel free to ask | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | i'm from the Mer project (wiki.maemo.org/Mer) and have been traumatised for over a year on these issues :) | 22:15 |
| orbarron | I will... BTW: can anyone do this using oe? | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | you will want to talk to rkirti, she's a GSoC student who ported maemo stack to OE | 22:16 |
| orbarron | I have just jumped in so I am not sure what I am dealing with YET....:P | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | orbarron: expect a couple of months in therapy ;) | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | but honestly, if you want to do a maemo port to zoom, you will want to do similar things to the beagleboard project | 22:17 |
| orbarron | I was planning on starting that way.. but not sure on OE vs standard ways | 22:18 |
| orbarron | I just got familiar with OE but now I am in new waters again... | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | start out from having a kernel and a lib/modules dir, then rest is pretty managable. you'll want fakegetbootstate for sure :) | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | and regarding kernel, take whatever kernel you have working and then patch with fremantle things if need be :P | 22:19 |
| orbarron | thanks... Let me start with a project name and then go in that direction.... | 22:19 |
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| Stskeeps | and good luck, i'm happy to see more maemo ports :) | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | is it something you're doing for personal fun or? (i see your hostname) | 22:21 |
| orbarron | personal and other... would love to see more people join the omap wagon | 22:22 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 22:22 |
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| orbarron | Stskeeps: I assume you have a beagle? | 22:23 |
| johnsQ | *evil* port windows to omap | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | orbarron: i used to at my previous work | 22:23 |
| orbarron | IC | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | actually two ;) no idea what they're used for now | 22:24 |
| orbarron | got some zoom2's.... | 22:24 |
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| * brbrbr warmly greet everyone :P | 22:25 | |
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| Stskeeps | hehe, if you want to get a port of Mer (community Maemo) onto a zoom2, i can suggest some people to mail to, to get it done ;) | 22:26 |
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| orbarron | please... do | 22:27 |
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| Stskeeps | k - i meant mail one to but :P | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | my issue with zoom2 is price but then again you do get quite a lot for the price | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | looking forward to a presentation on it at maemo summit | 22:29 |
| orbarron | I agree, but I do like working with it... Personally I think is a nice platform.. | 22:29 |
| orbarron | I wanted to go, but I think I started to late.... | 22:29 |
| orbarron | :'( | 22:30 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it filled up pretty quickly after n900 announcement | 22:30 |
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| Shapeshifter | "hildon_set_password_dialog_new is deprecated and should not be used in newly-written code" - so, what should I use instead? | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | orbarron: but re Mer, - if you have the SGX drivers on it, you can get as far as http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/polished2.png with the new fremantle desktop we're putting in | 22:32 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: wowawewa! :D | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | oh, right, wazd didn't see that yet | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | orbarron: and fully open source besides the 3d libs | 22:33 |
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| wazd | try new wallpaper :) | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i will | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | i just didn't have time today, something came up | 22:34 |
| Jaffa | Right. Almost backed. | 22:34 |
| orbarron | Stskeeps: Nice to know. | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | anyway, i gotta get some rest before the summit | 22:35 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: That's a Mer screenshot?! | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: ignore the background but yeah | 22:35 |
| Jaffa | Using fvwm or hildon? | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | fremantle-desktop on sw rendering | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:35 |
| Jaffa | Cool | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | the pieces for a full desktop are out there now so | 22:36 |
| orbarron | thank again for the info... | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | orbarron: and feel free to prod me with any questions :) | 22:36 |
| wazd | Sad to realise that all my ideas were dumped :) | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: nah, we'll probably need creative solutions for Plain, and your theme/background/icons | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: we'll have an edition for less capable devices as well | 22:36 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: tamagochi? :D | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: we can even run desktop widgets and status area | 22:37 |
| Jaffa | Woohoo | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | but it's awesomely slow right now :/ | 22:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: But I thought you were an Nokia employee?! That Eldar bastard... | 22:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | *a | 22:37 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, when you're using mpd, it decodes audio on cpu. the only way to use dsp for decoding is install nokia gstreamer binary plugin and output sound via gstreamer. | 22:38 |
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| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: application -> pcm -> dsp task -> sound. | 22:40 |
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| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, yeah. mp3 decoding is done before pcm | 22:41 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, but you can get application -> gstreamer -> dsp decoding task -> sound. with decoding done by dsp task | 22:42 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, the benefit is less used main cpu | 22:43 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: shouldn't be a problem, to write a mp3 or ogg decoder, if anybody wants it. | 22:43 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, not very easy. gcc doesn't support c55x dsp cpu, so the only usable thing is closed TI windows (ouch!) sdk | 22:45 |
| derf | No, there's also a closed Linux compiler. | 22:45 |
| derf | It just doesn't work very well. | 22:45 |
| slonopotamus_ | prooflink? | 22:46 |
| derf | And comes with next to no documentation. | 22:46 |
| derf | Gekk if I know, I downloaded it like 2 years ago. | 22:46 |
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| derf | Ask lardman. | 22:46 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, besides, there's some kind of 'kernel' that is loaded into dsp, that is closed and that all existing dsp tasks make use of. so you either need to use it too or you can't u e existing tasks. | 22:47 |
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| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: and the chip developer never learn to open it all! | 22:48 |
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| slonopotamus_ | johnsQ, as i understood, hardware itself is documented. at least gcc has c54 support (which is just a previous version before c55) | 22:49 |
| johnsQ | slonopotamus_: all to much work, until you have figured it out how it works it is outdated. | 22:49 |
| luke-jr_ | slonopotamus_: ever get X.org 7.5 built? | 22:49 |
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| slonopotamus_ | luke-jr_, dunno. xorg-server-1.7? | 22:49 |
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| slonopotamus_ | luke-jr_, haven't tried yet | 22:50 |
| luke-jr_ | slonopotamus_: yes.. | 22:50 |
| luke-jr_ | o | 22:50 |
| luke-jr_ | I'm keywording it now | 22:50 |
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| luke-jr_ | want the keyword file when I'm done? | 22:50 |
| slonopotamus_ | no, not important | 22:51 |
| luke-jr_ | ... | 22:51 |
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| slonopotamus_ | luke-jr_, what? | 22:53 |
| luke-jr_ | slonopotamus_: ACCEPT_LICENSES="-* @LUKEDASHJR" <.< | 22:53 |
| slonopotamus_ | hehe :) | 22:54 |
| slonopotamus_ | you made up your own licence? | 22:54 |
| luke-jr_ | no | 22:59 |
| luke-jr_ | it's a license group | 22:59 |
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| luke-jr_ | includes all free licenses I have actually read over | 22:59 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: can you show some more shots with my theme? | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: after summit gladly | 23:00 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: ah :( | 23:00 |
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| Shapeshifter | I want to use curl in my app on maemo5 but it doesn't seem to work. I have #include <curl/curl.h> at the top, and later I do CURL *curl; curl = curl_easy_init(); but this raises: "myapp..c:(.text+0x705): undefined reference to `curl_easy_init'" | 23:03 |
| Shapeshifter | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status | 23:03 |
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| johnsQ | Shapeshifter: have you linked curl? | 23:03 |
| Shapeshifter | johnsQ: oh right... linking. ;) thanks | 23:03 |
| johnsQ | Shapeshifter: pkg-config --libs libcurl | 23:04 |
| Shapeshifter | johnsQ: thanks | 23:04 |
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| aSIMULAter | yay i'm all packed | 23:07 |
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| * Proteous hands aSIMULAter a laxative | 23:12 | |
| aSIMULAter | big dump phew | 23:13 |
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| jaska | jettison warpcore | 23:14 |
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| wazd | omg, console arcades wallpapers attack! :D | 23:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | !!! | 23:21 |
| wazd | let's port every level of SMB! :D | 23:21 |
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| Proteous | console arcade wallpaper? | 23:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://n900wallpapers.com/browse | 23:27 |
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| Proteous | nice | 23:28 |
| Firebird | surprisingly, most of the landscape wallpapers aren't panoramic packs | 23:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Need to get the panos packaged up. | 23:35 |
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| pupnik | ukki ? | 23:39 |
| Shapeshifter | until now I was able to ctrl-c in the window where I run-standalone.sh'd my app to stop it. Now this signal doesn't seem to be caught anymore, it just prints ^C. any ideas how this might have come to be? | 23:39 |
| Proteous | gppz? | 23:39 |
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| Macer | hm | 23:39 |
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| Proteous | KILL -9! | 23:40 |
| Shapeshifter | Proteous: i can just press the X in my app, works. but I'm wondering why ctrl-c stopped working... | 23:40 |
| Shapeshifter | the app is still fine | 23:40 |
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| Proteous | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4 | 23:40 |
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| johnsQ | Shapeshifter: man signal, any signal handler turned SIG_INT = ^c off | 23:41 |
| dneary | Don't know how, but I totally missed Gary's fundraising drive until today | 23:43 |
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| * GeneralAntilles sighs. | 23:50 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | The alarm just went off for my flight to Amsterdam. | 23:50 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 23:50 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Did I miss anything? | 23:50 |
| * SpeedEvil stuffs GeneralAntilles in an insulated suitcase, and smuggles him on a refrigerated flight. | 23:51 | |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, State Department screwed me over. | 23:51 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: New passport too late? | 23:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, the expedited 1-3 weeks passport processing with overnight shipping on both ends took 7 weeks and wasn't overnighted. | 23:52 |
| javispedro | btw, anyone happen to know where the source to the "Choose background" hildon-desktop dialog would be in? | 23:53 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: You guys and not having passports... | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | I might've been able to get it in time if they had shipped it overnight when they shipped it yesterday like they were supposed to. . . . | 23:53 |
| xnt14 | hmm | 23:53 |
| xnt14 | ~seen lcuk | 23:53 |
| infobot | lcuk <i=lcuk@cpc3-oldh7-0-0-cust590.manc.cable.ntl.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 56m 36s ago, saying: 'gnite folks'. | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, well, it costs about $140 to get a passport and most people use it maybe once or twice. | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, so there isn't much point to wasting the money. | 23:53 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: But you only knew that you were coming to this summit like.. last year? | 23:54 |
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| X-Fade | But anyway, that sucks. | 23:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, it was within the standard processing timeframe | 23:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | let alone the expedited one. | 23:54 |
| X-Fade | We can get 'emergency' passports in a few days. | 23:55 |
| X-Fade | Even the same day if you really want. | 23:55 |
| SpeedEvil | For a new passport? | 23:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can't get a second passport issued, unfortunately. | 23:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean a first passport | 23:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whatever, not really interested in hearing about how I should've done it. | 23:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I know that there is no way of doing that in the UK. | 23:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I could've driven 8 hours down to Miami and had it done by them in 3 days. | 23:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | But why would I have done that? 7 weeks is plenty of time for standard processing by mail and even more time for expedited. | 23:56 |
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| X-Fade | Hmm yeah, sucks big time. | 23:57 |
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