IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-10-03

GAN800Fine by me.00:00
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GAN800Ubuntu Moblin is coming together.00:00
Tadthebuilderas long as they dont put that crappy stuff that was on the eee's00:01
qwerty12_N810frals: *open-source* iPhone emu ;P00:01
Tadthebuilderubuntu nbr might be up to the task00:01
GAN800It's about time people realized that they don't ACTUALLY need Windows.00:01
Tadthebuilderexcept to play counter strike00:01
RST38hNo waaaay00:01
RST38hor WoW00:01
RST38hor Office00:01
* qwerty12_N810 needs it00:01
Tadthebuildercome over here00:02
GAN800qwerty12 is a luser00:02
Tadthebuilderand get counter strike to run in wine00:02
Tadthebuilderon my computer00:02
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Tadthebuilderat decent speeds00:02
rangeGAN800: Isn't moblin based on Fedora by now?00:02
Tadthebuilderin wine on linux00:02
Tadthebuilderactually sony ebook reader library00:02
Tadthebuilderwhere I want it00:02
* qwerty12_N810 would respond, but remembers that GAN800 uses OS X. Enough said...00:02
GAN800range, there's an Ubuntu release with the UI stuff.00:02
TadthebuilderI bought some books from there not realizing their drm....00:02
TadthebuilderI actually prefer to the newest microsoft office00:03
GAN800qwerty12, hey, at least it's not Microsoft. :P00:03
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RST38hHitler: At least it's not Microsoft!00:03
TadthebuilderI think Apple might be worse than ms00:03
fralsthis is the part where i say i use office2007 suite by choice?00:04
* RST38h laughs satanically00:04
GAN800Tadthebuilder, Fictionwise's Mobipocket stuff is pretty easy to convert.00:04
Tadthebuilderyeah I know that00:04
Tadthebuilderbut I bought some things directly from sony00:04
qwerty12_N810GAN800: Apple brought out the iPhone, I can never choose them over MS :p00:04
GAN800Apple actually contributes to open source.00:04
Tadthebuilder(a Christian Theology text book for a class that I could not find any where else)00:04
GAN800But, yes, their mobile stuff is disturbing.00:04
Tadthebuilderbut easy development and adding of applications is better than open source00:05
Tadthebuilderdid I say that outloud?00:05
javispedroyes, I heared you saying something about liking furry stuff.00:05
Tadthebuilderby that I meant00:05
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Did you see somebody asked for webkit on fremantle?00:05
GAN800The whole Apple Computer to Apple thing disturbs me.00:05
Tadthebuilderthat I would rather deal with a company that let anyone create software for it even if they never did anything with the open source community00:05
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: Yes, but it's up to Bundyo to get the ball rolling... I just did stuff to make it build on the autobuilder00:06
Tadthebuilderthan one that made you go through them to develop software for it00:06
javispedroTadthebuilder: what are you doing here? go grab windows mobile!00:06
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Ah.00:06
TadthebuilderId much prefer maemo00:06
TadthebuilderI was refering to windows mobile vs iphone00:06
qwerty12_N810Windows Mobile. Endorsed by javispedro.00:06
Tadthebuilderif i had to choose00:07
* javispedro did call "Windows Mobile" "Winbugs Unmobile" quite a few times.00:07
qwerty12_N810How much are they paying you? :p00:07
javispedroI am soooooooooooooooooooo funny.00:07
Tadthebuildermaybe Im not making any sense00:07
TadthebuilderI just hate the fact that the only way apple wants you to install software is through their store00:07
Tadthebuilderthats what I hate00:08
* qwerty12_N810 isn't into the open-source-or-die movement himself00:08
Tadthebuilderwell programmers need to eat too00:08
TadthebuilderI apperciate open source developers00:08
Tadthebuilderbut I dont think its immoral to develop closed source00:08
javispedroI would be into the opensource-or-die movement if it could be enforced by law. It won't, so companies enforcing it are at a disadvantage00:08
javispedro(for example, no 3D. or does anyknow how many bricks you need to hit Imagination with in order for them to release free libGLES?)00:09
javispedroor nvidia, for the case.00:09
Tadthebuilderdeath penalty for creating closed source software would be a little extreme....00:10
javispedroa few minutes of electric chair would be OK.00:11
Tadthebuilder(note: I really was not trying to be a troll, or get into a fight, I promise)00:11
* Robot101 got *really* confused because he hit the wrong key and thought this was #collabora... and like... who are all of these people?!00:11
Robot101I'm sure we didn't hire this many people...00:11
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RST38hToo late00:11
Tadthebuilderwelcome to maemo robot00:11
RST38hTar. Feathers.00:11
Tadthebuilderwhat too late?00:11
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* javispedro wastes time
RST38hjavis: running on armel qemu? =)00:13
javispedronope, x86, sw rendering, and even that was hard enough already.00:13
javispedrosomeone forgot to remember heaps are execution protected.....00:13
javispedro(basically, a waste of time :P)00:14
RST38hare they?00:14
javispedroRST38h: at least on amd64.00:14
RST38hworks fine in WinXP on Intel00:14
javispedroand probably any x86 with PAE kernel.00:14
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RST38hNX feature is separate from PAE00:14
javispedroah well.00:15
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javispedroeven then, I think Windows only enables it in the PAE kernel for unknown reasons.00:16
RST38hprotection against evil hackers (tm)?00:17
* Robot101 would be interested in q/wg 33500:17
* Robot101 fails at irssi again00:17
javispedroRST38h: yes, but I mean why in PAE kernel only.00:17
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RST38hwho knows...who cares...sleep!00:18
javispedrogood advice.00:19
Tadthebuilderdoes anyone know what the cortex-a9 power usage would compare to a similar speed atom?00:19
javispedroTexas Instruments knows.00:19
Tadthebuilderbut they are not speaking00:20
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Tadthebuilderthe touchbook 2.000:20
ShadowJKThe answer is "depends" :)00:20
Tadthebuilderoh okay00:20
Tadthebuilderim going to pretend likes thats a full answera00:20
Tadthebuilderand not ask a follow up question00:21
Tadthebuilderbecause I probably would not understand the answer anyway00:21
ShadowJKpower use is complicated00:21
ShadowJKhardware isn't the entire story00:21
Tadthebuilderokay makes sense00:21
ShadowJKAnd there are different things you use the system for00:21
Tadthebuilderso its also the systems interaction with the processor00:22
Tadthebuilderaka the software has to be good?00:22
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Tadthebuilderdepends on usag00:23
ShadowJKFor example, the beagleboard uses the same (nearly) chip as N900, but people typically use a fairly "normal" linux kernel and fairly "normal" distribution environment on top. This results in a "standby" batterylife of a few hours if you'd power it by the same battery as N900. And that is without wifi, bluetooth or 3G radios00:23
Tadthebuilderbut maemo00:23
Tadthebuilderis coded00:23
Tadthebuilderso as to take advantage of the lower power00:23
ShadowJKBut the same chip in the N900, with the power-optimized linux kernel that Nokia uses, and the power optimized maemo distribution on top, would achieve days of standby time00:23
Tadthebuilderand bah okay00:24
Tadthebuilderah not bah00:24
ShadowJKThat's more than factor 10 difference00:24
ShadowJKI don't belive that Atom can go that low00:24
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Tadthebuildermakes sense00:26
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ShadowJKFrom a user's point of view, huge standby times completely transform the user experience. Your device is always ready to instantly react to what you want to do. No need to boot it up. The minute or two it takes to switch on a laptop is a big threshold, but you don't realize it's there until you've used a device that's always ready.00:27
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ShadowJKOnce you experience computer-liek performance that's always ready for you, you probably wouldn't even notice if, for example, battery life with Atom in active use was 5 hours and battery life with Arm in active use was 3 hours00:27
crashanddieJaffa, can you call my mobile? I lost my phone00:27
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ShadowJKI'm not saying that Arm would get less battery life in active use than Atom00:27
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ShadowJKI suspect Arm would beat Atom00:28
ShadowJKI'm just saying it "depends" :)00:28
ShadowJKI believe always-on is one of those things that transform the way we use and think about our devices00:28
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ShadowJKBut even with Arm being capable of this, it's not enough to just use Arm, as evident by how most people use beagleboard :)00:29
crashanddiecan anyone please call my phone? Kind of an emergency here? Anyone in the UK willing to place a call?00:30
ShadowJKDo you expect to hear it ring, or do you expect someone else has it?00:31
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: place your number in a phonebox near you00:31
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mavhca phonebox?00:31
crashanddieShadowJK, dunno, any answer would be good. No-one answering means I forgot it at the office and means I'm stuffed, no answer could also mean I lost if on my way back home00:32
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crashanddiebut I used it to give someone directions, so I didn't forget it at the office00:32
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ShadowJKin that case I suspect it'd be best if someone without furriner accent tried calling :)00:33
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Tadthebuilderi need more ram00:38
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luke-jr_me too00:38
Tadthebuildermy computer just crashed00:38
Tadthebuilderlocked up00:38
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GeneralAntillesI still want a network sync for FBReader.00:42
coldbootWhat's an accurate way to time functions in microsecond precision on the n810?00:42
coldbootIt seems std::clock() is inaccurate.00:42
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Tadthebuilderlcuk: you in here still?00:47
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Firebirdcoldboot, you could use ftime:
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crashanddieShadowJK, thanks anyway, found the phone00:48
ShadowJKWhere was it?00:49
wiretappedGeneralAntilles: if you want network sync for ____, look at cron+rsync00:54
coldbootFirebird: Are you sure that works on the n810? Because clock() is completely useless.00:54
coldbootFirebird: I don't think that will work.00:55
GAN800wiretapped, I was thinking of just adding rsync to the .desktop.00:56
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Firebirdcoldboot, have you tried gettimeofday() ?00:59
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Firebirdcoldboot, look at post 3 for an example:
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coldbootFirebird: Ah, thanks.01:02
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coldbootCPU time, very important difference.01:02
coldbootI'm measuring IO time.01:02
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Tadthebuilderany one used andrewfbacks freemantle theme for diablo?01:14
Tadthebuilderits awesome01:14
coldbootI mean most of my time is spent on IO.01:14
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lardmananyone happen to know which lib I must link against to get gdk_x11_drawable_get_xid()?01:44
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Mouseyoh, nm01:48
* Mousey butts out01:48
lardmanjust that the Fremantle SDK doens't recognise it, while the Diablo one does01:49
lardman'tiss in here thoough:
lardmanwell GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW which is define#'d as above01:51
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lardmanI add, in the standard 8 lines, my output: ;)01:53
lardmangcc `pkg-config --libs gconf-2.0 hildon-1 hildon-fm-2 gtk+-2.0 libosso gdk-2.0 gconf-2.0 gnome-vfs-2.0 gstreamer-0.10 sqlite3 conic glib-2.0` -lgstinterfaces-0.10 -ldmtx -lpthread `curl-config --libs` batoo.o lists.o camera.o gui.o web.o maemo-barcode.o bch15_5.o binarize.o image.o isaac.o qrdec.o qrdectxt.o rs.o util.o -o mbarcode01:54
lardmancamera.o: In function `expose_cb':01:54
lardmancamera.c:(.text+0x95c): undefined reference to `GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW'01:54
lardmangui.o: In function `scan_button_pressed':01:54
lardmangui.c:(.text+0xfd0): undefined reference to `GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW'01:54
lardmancollect2: ld returned 1 exit status01:54
lardmanmake: *** [mbarcode] Error 101:54
lardmanany thoughts appreciated01:54
javispedrolardman: try #including <gdk/gdkx.h>01:55
lardmanjavispedro: it's a linker error though02:00
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javispedrolardman: but GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW is a macro.02:00
javispedroyou're missing the definition,02:00
javispedrothus the compiler thinks you're trying to invoke an extern function.02:00
lardmanah, ok02:00
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lardmannope, still broken, same error02:01
lardmanhmm hang on02:01
lardmanok fixed, thanks02:03
lardmanand thanks qwerty12_N810 who suggested it earlier too ;)02:03
javispedroheh :D02:03
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pupnik_tear with  three tabs was giving me bogdowns and swap.  so i disabled scripting, extensions, image loading, full zooming02:48
pupnik_and now it is like the web should be!02:49
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pupnik_text and hyperlinks :@02:49
GAN800Minus images and scripting. :P02:49
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pupnik_i need two browsers02:49
pupnik_one w/9o02:50
pupnik_w/o fluff02:50
ShadowJKtear is fast as long as you limit yourself to one tab :)02:50
pupnik_need multiple pages02:50
pupnik_it is my memory cache02:50
pupnik_now how to make xchat launch tear?02:51
ShadowJKmine too02:51
pupnik_with proper invocation?02:51
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pupnik_hmm "tear" seems to work02:52
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pupnik_is there a more lightweight terminal?  osso-xterm takes 4.2MB in htop03:05
pupnik_with 2 windows03:05
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pupnik_i had x running on 12MB systems...03:06
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SpeedEvilOr was that 303:07
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AStormpupnik_: urxvt03:09
AStormpupnik_: esp. urxvtd/urxvtc03:09
lardman~lart Humax for making H03:09
* infobot takes out Humax with the trash for making H03:09
lardmanin fact for making crappy hard disk recorders which don;t work03:09
pupnik_astorm - it works on tablet??03:10
AStormwhy wouldn't it?03:10
AStormit has no special keys though03:10
AStormyou mean, the 'key' bar03:11
AStorm*you know03:11
AStormit's not hildonized, but it doesn't matter03:11
pupnik_ /media/mmc2/fun # apt-cache search urxvt03:11
AStormit has no menu anyway03:11
AStormpupnik_: rxvt-unicode03:11
pupnik_what repo?03:12
AStormno idea03:12
AStormI haven't tried it on maemo03:12
AStormonly on mer03:12
AStormask someone to build it03:12
AStorm(but make sure they include truetype/xft support)03:12
AStorm(and maybe unicode3 for the chinese ;p )03:12
pupnik_nothing was found for "rxvt-unicode" in OS 200803:14
pupnik_on gronmayer03:14
AStormso you get to build it ;p03:14
AStormmaybe rxvt03:14
AStormbut that will likely be the one w/o unicode03:14
AStormso less useful03:14
AStormlxde terminal is light too03:16
AStormmight be available03:16
AStormbut urxvt is lighter and more full-featured03:16
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AStormnah, roxterm is weak03:20
lardmannight all03:20
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pupnik_heh roxterm says 5.1 MB in htop03:23
pupnik_i mean %03:23
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AStormpupnik_: ... told you03:24
AStormcheck it03:24
AStormand grab rxvt-unicode from debian or ubuntu armel03:25
AStormfor a test03:25
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pupnik_i always use urxvt on linux pc03:26
AStormgood choice.03:26
AStormcan't go any heavier than that03:27
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woglindehe I dont use kwin03:28
woglindeso I can use something bigger as terminal03:28
AStormeven less of a reason to use konsole03:28
* AStorm can't find the logic in that03:28
MaceN8x0what is it about cop shows that they always have to add tire screeching noises?03:28
AStormMaceN8x0: it's "kewl"03:29
AStormalso, I can make tire noises with my car on demand03:29
MaceN8x0but the car slowly pulled into a parking spot03:29
AStormpupnik_: recommended resources: metaSendsEscape, font: xft:Sans:size=14, scrollBar: false03:30
MaceN8x0screeching in a situation that was like03:30
AStormscrollTtyOutput: false03:30
pupnik_ty astorm03:30
MaceN8x0anyways... have to go03:31
AStormpupnik_: and scrollWithBuffer: false03:31
pupnik_is xft builtin now?03:31
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pupnik_oh that is new to me03:31
AStormpupnik_: it is optional03:31
AStormbut is light still :)03:31
AStormpupnik_: color set is slightly different from xterm's by default03:34
AStormbut that's easily tunable03:34
pupnik_terrible colors03:34
pupnik_what do zou use03:34
AStormyeah, too light.03:35
AStormhmm, on the new machine?03:35
AStormnothing yet ;p03:35
AStormI have to fix those03:35
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AStormpupnik_: try those "Tango theme" like colors03:35
pupnik_lacking butter for caramel, i made popcorn with melted nutella just now03:36
AStormhm, sounds tasty and... fattening03:37
pupnik_feeling a bit woozy from the sugar, tbh03:37
pupnik_what u got in the fridge?03:37
* SpeedEvil has a concoction made from two cans of peaches, and a tub of natural yogurt.03:38
pupnik_me, tomato paste, jelly, nutella, some too-old joghurt03:38
SpeedEvilTopped with some nice biscuits. Yummy.03:38
SpeedEvilAlso solder paste.03:38
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Robot101hrm, good03:38
pupnik_walnuts are ripe here03:38
SpeedEvilWhich is probably not so yummy.03:39
* Robot101 missed the window of opportunity for pizza ordering03:39
AStormdoesn't matter :)03:39
SpeedEvil(though I haven't tried, it could be ambrosia)03:39
AStormsome whole grain buns03:39
AStormbutter, some kind of meat03:39
AStorm(in slices)03:39
SpeedEvilCouple of weeks since I last shopped, the fridge is moderately empty03:39
AStormfresh tomato, pickled beet ;p03:40
AStorm(coarse grated)03:40
AStormmid-quality vodka, mineral water03:40
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AStorm12% cream03:41
AStormhmmm, more?03:41
AStormpupnik_: those tango colors are fake ;p03:41
AStormpupnik_: try these:
AStorm(lower down the page)03:41
GAN800Robot101, can we be more descriptive in which service are supported in the Telepathy plugin pretty names?03:42
Robot101GAN800: how do you mean?03:43
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Robot101oh right, in the package manager?03:43
Robot101there should be one package which pulls them all in03:44
Robot101rtcomm-extras? or telepathy-extras?03:44
GAN800Maybe the short description, actually03:44
AStormthese are the dark variant ;p03:44
GAN800Because who the hell knows what haze/idle/salut mean. :D03:44
Robot101but yeah, feel free to drop a mail to and suggest tweaks03:44
Robot101a fair point03:44
GAN800OK, will do03:45
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AStormpupnik_: this is a good resource:
GAN800Considering our new more mass market audience. ;)03:45
Robot101GAN800: right03:45
Robot101GAN800: maybe we should make some videos of how to set them up?03:45
pupnik_8 tear windows open and running fine :)03:45
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GAN800Since probably 90% of them will install first thing.03:46
GAN800Videos sound excellent.03:46
Robot101yeah Peter suggested it to me, but I forgot until now03:46
GAN800Although it's beautifully easy once you know which package you need.03:47
Robot101yup, can be a nice short video :D03:47
Robot101we're trying to make MSN video calling work too03:47
Robot101a bit of a faff03:47
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Robot101but it should be possible03:47
Robot101drop in the extra farsight plugin03:47
GAN800Just too bad they can't be in there by default. :(03:48
Robot101that kind of thing might get easier for Maemo as the public profile is higher03:48
* Robot101 knows that such business development can be hard and make little sense... :D03:49
GAN800Get enough free lawyers to handle the negotiations. ;)03:49
Robot101our lawyers are so totally not free03:49
Robot101I need to add up our legal fees and compare to lawyers salary03:49
GAN800I absolutely love what they did with the user manual03:50
Robot101I wonder when we need to get a general attorney...03:50
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GAN800Aparently Maemo has DRM. ;)03:50
Robot101o rly? :P03:50
infobotGAN800 meant: Apparently Maemo has DRM. ;)03:50
* Robot101 smacks infobot 03:50
GAN800According to the legal boilerplate in the manual, anyway. :roll:03:51
AStormpupnik_: of note, theme 3 looks like default xterm03:52
GAN800I filed a bunch of bugs on the manual this morning. Hoping to see something productive come of ot.03:52
GAN800s/ot/out of it03:53
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AStormGAN800: you mean WinMedia DRM support, then yes, it has03:55
AStormwell protected too ;p03:55
Tadthebuilderwere most of the bugs on the manual grammer related?03:55
Tadthebuilderheh, It was quite humurous03:56
TadthebuilderI wonder if they have already been printed like that though03:56
vladovgsome one03:56
vladovgkane trai this03:56
GAN800The 'About Maemo software' section was my favorite03:56
vladovgtraig to install03:56
vladovgand it sais missing packige03:56
GAN800Tadthebuilder, almost certainly03:57
Tadthebuilderthats funny03:57
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Tadthebuilderwhat package were you missing?03:57
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Tadthebuilderlike did it list things specifically?03:58
vladovgit sais theht the hole packig is missing03:58
Tadthebuildertry adding it through the application manager03:59
Tadthebuilderonce you enable extra-devel03:59
vladovggiv a direckt linc to the installitin packige03:59
TadthebuilderI just installed it03:59
vladovgits eneibaled03:59
Tadthebuildercause I did not have it03:59
Tadthebuildersetting application manager03:59
Tadthebuilderinstallable applications03:59
Tadthebuilderthen click search03:59
Tadthebuildertype in light04:00
Tadthebuilderand try it from there04:00
vladovgalredi trai this04:00
vladovgapt-get install04:00
vladovgand everiting04:00
Tadthebuilderand it says it doesnt exist?04:00
Tadthebuildernot that you arent missing other packages04:00
Tadthebuilderbut that that specific package is missing?04:01
vladovgapt sais it is som dependence04:01
vladovgand the menager seis it missing04:01
Tadthebuilderso your missing a dependency04:01
vladovgfrom server04:01
Tadthebuilderi think04:01
Tadthebuilderany ideas anyone?04:01
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Tadthebuildercan you paste or type into this what you got from the command line04:02
Tadthebuilderwhen trying apt-get?04:02
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Vladoo/home/user # apt-get install lightmediascanner0-plugins04:04
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VladooDepends: lightmediascanner0-ogg (= 0.3.0-maemo2) but it is not going to be installed04:05
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Tadthebuilderim actually at a loss04:05
Tadthebuilderlets see if any one can help04:05
TadthebuilderI know some of you are lurking04:05
Tadthebuilderanyone know what the problem is?04:06
TadthebuilderGan800: any idea what the problem may be?04:06
vladovgBusyBox v1.6.1 (2008-09-18 09:43:17 EEST) Built-in shell (ash)04:08
vladovgEnter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.04:08
vladovgReading package lists... Done04:08
vladovgBuilding dependency tree04:08
vladovgReading state information... Done04:08
vladovgSome packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have04:08
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Tadthebuilderim not really sure04:10
vladovgcan some one traing to install and see if its worc04:10
Tadthebuildermaybe it you wait around a bit a guy smarter than me will be able to help04:10
vladovgot its my problem04:10
vladovgthancks for traing04:11
vladovgto help04:11
Tadthebuilderyour welcome04:12
TadthebuilderIt installed on mine though04:12
TadthebuilderI just did it04:12
vladovgthanks again04:12
vladovgso its problem on my device04:13
vladovggona trai with force04:13
vladovgwath is the rigt command04:14
vladovgapt-get install -f04:15
Tadthebuilderi dont know04:15
Tadthebuildertry googleing it hah04:15
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vladovgevriting is beckos use ave canola clinup04:20
vladovgafter thet onli a problems04:20
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Tadthebuildercan you trying saying that again?04:24
vladovgbad english sorri04:26
Tadthebuilderits okay04:26
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Tadthebuilderi do have canola installed if that is what you were trying to say04:29
vladovgmy tu04:30
vladovgbut it did not playing04:30
vladovgmusic or video04:30
vladovgonli images04:30
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Tadthebuilderyou never got it to paly mp304:34
vladovgit worsk well04:34
vladovguntil todai04:34
vladovgay sorr a new version rc204:35
vladovgand wont to install04:35
vladovgtraiet and it sai thet is a conflickt04:35
vladovgremove the old04:36
vladovgand again04:36
vladovgthe same error04:36
vladovgthen install canola-clenup04:36
vladovgand now04:36
Tadthebuilderokay it was a problem with an update04:36
vladovgupdate is not a gud think04:37
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vladovgevri ting thrt it worck shaud let worc04:37
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vladovgeveri update ay made is coasing onli trobles04:37
vladovgno mera lath traing to update04:37
TadthebuilderI updated04:38
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Tadthebuilderearlier today too04:38
Tadthebuilderbut I have no ran the program till now04:38
Tadthebuilderand its working fine04:38
Tadthebuilderdoes canola come in different languangeS?04:38
vladovgno ay thinc04:38
vladovggething nervis04:39
vladovgand du not wont to flash the device04:39
vladovghava a lot ov apps04:39
vladovgand set ups04:39
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vladovghav to giv up04:41
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Tadthebuildercome in on a week night04:42
Tadthebuildernext week04:42
Tadthebuilderand see if when more people are here04:42
Tadthebuilderits Friday night Eastern Time04:42
Tadthebuildermore people are on on week nights it seem04:42
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Tadthebuilderget help from more knowledgable people04:42
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code177how's it going04:47
vladovgnot so good04:48
code177what's up?04:48
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vladovgtablet trobels04:50
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code177i'm sorry to hear that04:50
Tadthebuilderhe is having issues with ogg support and canola04:51
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vladovglet say all support04:54
vladovgand video04:54
vladovgwont play04:54
code177I'd offer some advice, but I don't have any04:54
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Firebirdvladovg, do you have mplayer installed?05:00
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vladovgand ay have uninstaled05:03
vladovganother qeston05:05
vladovghave a beckup05:05
vladovgfrom last wick05:05
vladovgafter flashing the device05:05
vladovgdid this backup restor my apps05:05
vladovgor onli the PIM data05:06
vladovgmining the shiped backup program05:06
zerojaycode177: Hi.05:07
code177hey zero05:08
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Tadthebuilderif you write a listo f your apps that is not hard to replace05:09
Tadthebuildershould not take more than an hour or so05:09
yobowatching Surrogates on my tablet. movie is kna 5/1005:09
Tadthebuilder(which might be less time then it takes to fix it)05:10
vladovga lot ow apps05:10
zerojayRobot101, wjt: Seems that occasionally haze goes haywire to the point where everything disconnects extremely often and I have to reboot to get back to being solid again.05:10
Tadthebuilderaparently someone else is having the problem05:10
vladovglast time it tucks mor then a 5 hours05:11
Tadthebuilderare  you st5150 on tmo?05:11
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vladovgso the backup dont handel the apps05:12
TadthebuilderI dont ever back anything up...05:13
TadthebuilderI should but I dont.05:13
Tadthebuilderfor some reason I do not think it does though05:13
zerojayBackup should get a list of all the apps on your phone and reinstall them after backup restoration.05:14
zerojayUh.. yeah.05:15
Tadthebuilderwhy dont I use back up then...05:15
Tadthebuilderi thought it only stored the data not the apps05:15
vladovgthomorol is the day05:16
vladovgthancs everilan for help05:16
zerojayIt stores the data.. but it saves a list of your apps and repos so that you can easily reinstall.05:17
zerojayYou guys probably weren't around for the dark ages. lol05:17
GeneralAntillesExcept it wont automatically reenable Extras. :roll:05:17
vladovggood hight05:18
TadthebuilderI dont believe a time existed without computers05:18
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Tadthebuilderor without the internet tablets05:19
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Tadthebuilder15 days till my wedding and my fiancee is finally going crazy from stress05:28
TadthebuilderIm suprised she made it this long :)05:28
zerojayDon't worry.05:35
zerojay15 days afterwards, she'll realize what a mistake this whole marriage thing was. lol05:36
Tadthebuilderchloroform isnt going to work05:37
Tadthebuilderim five hours away from her05:37
TadthebuilderWe met at college, both just graduated (well me finishing up residential masters work) and the wedding is near where we went to school, she is living with her parents05:38
TadthebuilderI got a job a ways a way05:38
Tadthebuilderbut the wedding is down there05:38
Tadthebuildershe will be moving down here after the wedding05:38
Tadthebuilderwe are a bit old fashioned too.05:38
TadthebuilderIt might help you to know that Im a Pastor...05:39
Tadthebuilderslightly different05:39
zerojayYeah, I know.. So you haven't lived together or anything?05:40
Tadthebuildernever had sex either05:41
Tadthebuilder(not that you asked that haha)05:41
zerojayLet's put the sex thing aside a moment.05:41
zerojayIt's hard to find people we're compatible with.05:42
Tadthebuilderdefinitly agreed.05:42
zerojayHave you two at least been in the same place with each other for... oh... say... a week?05:42
Tadthebuilderif you count a dorm ten feet away...where we spent every moment not sleeping or in class together05:42
Tadthebuilderthen much longer than that05:43
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zerojayIt's easy to be together and all happy and all that... question is how things will be at their worst.05:45
Tadthebuilderoh agreed. I have no belief that it will be easy. Marriage is not easy. Love is something that must be cultivated and maintained05:45
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zerojayAnyways, I'm not trying to keep you from doing it or anything like that. I hope it works out for you as it has for me.05:45
Tadthebuilderno no I appreciate any advice and thoughts05:46
Tadthebuilderand I also appreciate any one showing concern05:46
zerojayI just know too many people that jumped into marriage.. you know... "love is forever" and all that and then suddenly they're at each other's throats within a few months.05:47
Tadthebuilderas do I05:47
TadthebuilderI completely understand where you are coming from05:48
TadthebuilderI believe that love, when it comes down to it is a choice and a commitment not a feeling05:48
Tadthebuilderthe feeling may be there but the commitment has to last past that feeling05:48
Tadthebuilderthe butterflies may come and a go but the choice of a sacrificial love must be maintained05:49
zerojayThink it's been six years for me so far.05:49
Tadthebuilderive been with this girl for four05:50
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zerojayAbout 10 years for me total.05:50
Tadthebuilderif you dont mind me asking, do you have an children?05:51
zerojay9 year old boy together.05:51
zerojay30 years old.05:52
Tadthebuilderokay well thats definitly cool05:52
TadthebuilderI really like children05:52
Tadthebuilderso im really looking forward to that in the future05:52
Tadthebuilder(I know thats kinda strange coming for a 23 year old guy, most are not looking forward to fatherhood)05:53
zerojayYeah and mine has been so much fun from the start. I pretty much ruined my knees crawling around on the floor with him when he was doing the same. lol05:53
TadthebuilderI work with children alot05:54
Tadthebuilder(im a specialized Pastor in your and children)05:54
Tadthebuilderand it is so sad to me to see the ones who dont have parents that care about them05:54
Tadthebuilderand things like that05:54
Tadthebuilderit makes me really sad05:54
TadthebuilderAlways glad to hear when someones willing to crawl around with their kid :)05:54
Tadthebuilderyouth and children that is supposed to read05:55
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GeneralAntillesSeriously, who is DDoSing
fnordianslipworks for me06:38
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johnxGeneralAntilles, you just got it DDoS'ed by asking that06:39
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unique311N900 will have a stylus???07:57
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MaceN8x0thank god i have an n81007:57
unique311Thank god...07:57
MaceN8x0i love this thing07:57
MaceN8x0although i am anxious for my touchbook07:58
johnxMaceN8x0, yeah, it was really cool of god to give it to you, handing it down through the clouds and all07:58
MaceN8x0that's the touchbook07:59
MaceN8x0i got the n810 from amazon for 240$07:59
sheepbatthat was the initial price?07:59
MaceN8x0which is odd because ppl are selling them for 400+ now for some reason07:59
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MaceN8x0no... got it like 3 mos ago07:59
MaceN8x0new in the box08:00
sheepbatbecause.. I was going to say..08:00
sheepbatif that's the price for an N810... they're charging *way* more for the N90008:00
johnxstill $240 in a lot of places08:00
johnxbut the price is going up steadily it seems08:00
sheepbatwell.. I suppose that's good for the N900...08:01
MaceN8x0johnx, i noticed that.. what's the deal with that?08:01
sheepbatmaemo is getting popular08:01
johnxMaceN8x0, they ceased production08:01
sheepbatokay, that'd explain it08:01
johnx(or so I am led to believe)08:01
MaceN8x0is there something i don't know? :)08:01
johnxalso, new maemo stuff continues to appear, like the snes emu08:01
unique311Where's pupnik08:02
MaceN8x0last i heard there was an astroid heading towards earth and only ppl with n8x0s get access to the safety caves08:02
johnxhe left about an hour ago it seems08:02
johnxor ... 3 hours ago :)08:02
MaceN8x0i'm still waiting for mer to become more end user08:02
johnxtime flies08:02
johnxMaceN8x0, stop waiting, starting doing :)08:03
johnxdo you follow mer-chatter?08:03
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MaceN8x0i'm no coder ;)08:03
johnxneither am I :P08:03
MaceN8x0not really.. haven't used it in a month or so08:04
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MaceN8x0tried it out and isn't ready yet08:04
MaceN8x0really all it needs is a stable functional ui and it'd be pretty good08:04
MaceN8x0the base seems well made08:04
johnxyup, and there are some things in motion WRT the UI08:04
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MaceN8x0well. maybe . will have a nicer ui :)08:06
johnxanyways, hang on for another couple months. 0.16 will be a transitional release and cool things will start showing up in 0.17 and 0.1808:06
MaceN8x0oh i'm sure08:06
MaceN8x0but by then i'd have gotten an n900 and be selling my n810 on amazon fpr $30008:07
MaceN8x0i like maemo quite a bit08:07
MaceN8x0would be nicce if someone figured a way to connect a 3G modem to it directly08:07
MaceN8x0like an enclosure that connects to the usb port :)08:08
johnxif I didn't think maemo was a worthwhile platform, I would have gone over to android (or back to angstrom) a long time ago08:08
MaceN8x0that protects the n810 and serves as a steady connection for the n81008:08
johnxhaving problems with bt?08:09
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MaceN8x0android sucks08:09
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MaceN8x0it was ok at  first but its dev path is total shit08:09
MaceN8x0lack thereof?08:09
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johnxwell, the path forward looks to be replacing the non-free parts08:09
MaceN8x0not to mention the pay for me apps that all suck08:10
MaceN8x0and constantly crash08:10
MaceN8x0slow stock updates08:10
MaceN8x0unstable 3rd party roms08:10
MaceN8x0slow operation08:11
MaceN8x0poor multitasking08:11
johnxandroid is a lot heavier than maemo08:11
johnxabstraction has heavy costs08:11
MaceN8x0well. it also has a shitty multitasking scheme08:11
johnxand in many situations the benefits of it go to the carriers/providers08:12
MaceN8x0close what i think you aren't using08:12
MaceN8x0by myself08:12
johnxdo you think it's better or worse than freezing and rebooting?08:12
MaceN8x0well.  i'd have to check but i think on a clean boot with nothing running...08:13
MaceN8x0you get almost no playroom with the ram on the G108:13
GAN800OOM sucks no matter how it's handled.08:14
MaceN8x0maemo seems to do an ok job of swapping to an sd08:14
MaceN8x0android doesn't seem to handle it too well08:14
GAN800It'll start killing, too, without, though.08:14
johnxI think app writers need to learn to handle the situation where the OS tells them to 'STOP' better08:14
GAN800Browser plugins then background apps.08:14
MaceN8x0it will stop you from opening apps08:15
MaceN8x0maemo will at least08:15
MaceN8x0instead of systematically self killing apps for you08:15
MaceN8x0i'd rather android did that08:15
johnxMaceN8x0, it will if it runs low enough and the watchdog doesn't reboot you first08:15
johnxbut that's pretty rare08:16
MaceN8x0heh, yeah.. i think compiling was the only thing that did that to me on the n81008:16
MaceN8x0in gentoo08:16
MaceN8x0hardcore maemo use seems to have never done that to me08:16
MaceN8x0i would give anything for a 3G modem case for my n81008:17
johnxstill not understanding how that's better than tethering via bt...08:18
johnxmaybe some very marginal speed gains08:18
johnxlots more power usage08:18
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johnxand a bulky, awkward setup08:18
MaceN8x0tethering requires 2 devices08:18
MaceN8x0and kills the phone anyways08:18
MaceN8x02 devices is bulkier than 108:19
johnxah, so you're picturing like a really professional 3G modem attachment?08:19
johnxI was picturing a DIY type thing08:19
MaceN8x0maybe something that you replace the stand with08:19
* johnx leaves the phone in his pocket and stays paired for hours without losing much battery in either device08:20
MaceN8x0i have to wifi tether my g108:20
MaceN8x0no bt dun08:20
johnxyeah, that sucks a lot08:20
johnxwhy not BT DUN/PAN? no one hacked it in yet?08:20
MaceN8x0but the 3G on my n95 via bt08:20
MaceN8x0was just as bad08:20
johnxTM506 here works great08:21
MaceN8x03G modems are power whores too08:21
MaceN8x0heh. well... bbl08:21
MaceN8x0have to check something08:21
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RST38h"I do hope that the boys reading aren't too obsessed about anti-aging though, because the last bit of bad news is that "only the female mice benefited" in the study."09:09
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AStormRST38h: hmm?09:11
AStormwhat was that quote about?09:11
RST38hAStorm: Apparently female bulemic mice live 20% longer09:11
AStormah that.09:12
AStormgeneral caloric reduction.09:12
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AStormit toggles various hormonal reactions that aren't well understood09:12
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AStormyou could get about 10-15% (including men) by dropping to 1200 kcal somehow09:13
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AStormit's *hard* to do w/o depriving yourself09:13
AStormthe other way around might work too09:13
AStormbut really, far too many variables09:14
AStormso this observation helps... nothing.09:14
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RST38happarently you can simulate it in mice by removing a gene09:20
AStormsure, twiddle and play09:20
RST38hfemale bulemic mice of course09:20
AStormwhich of course doesn't mean anything yet ;p09:21
RST38hif you are into mice, it does =)09:21
AStormthe question is why is the reaction so powerful09:21
AStormone gene affecting lifetime by 20%? how. :>09:22
RST38hless fat created, and fat apparently badly affects many things09:22
RST38hthere has been a link established between fat and respiratory ilnesses, fat and diabetes09:22
AStormbut that's still not 20%. must affect something important09:23
AStormI know that "fat" is actually an endocrine organ09:23
AStorm(in addition to being an energy store)09:23
* RST38h seems to remember reading about this as well09:23
RST38hFurther proves that the God has been a hacker.09:24
AStormbut let's not start that flamewar09:26
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* RST38h has not specified which God =)09:29
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AStormif any09:30
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* RST38h officially hates SigmaTel now10:22
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MyrttiI feel so out of touch with everything10:43
fralsi dont feel much touching anything atm10:44
RST38hsame here10:44
frals... damn weather :p10:44
RST38hwhat weather? it is sunny here10:44
fralssolid gray sky and like 5C here :(10:45
fralsknew i shouldve closed the window before going to bed10:45
MyrttiI'm looking at and the only thing I can think of is "er, ok, what's the purpose?"10:46
RST38hWell, we still have a few days before it switches to perpetual twilight here =)10:46
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RST38hMyrtti: Ah, I asked Niels the same yesterday. He says that this is for rigorous quality testing :)10:46
MyrttiRST38h: right - but I fail to see exactly *where* the quality testing comes into play with the view I'm looking at10:47
Myrttiperhaps that is because I'm just a documentation geek10:47
RST38hMyrtti: You are supposed to test an app and if you like it - thumb it up10:47
Myrttiand don't and can't do a lot of testing as I've got only mah N80010:48
RST38hMyrtti: thumbing app can only be done on the application page, cannot thumb up in this list (don't ask me why :))10:48
RST38hMyrtti: That is why Extras is going to stay empty for Fremantle :)10:48
RST38hOfficial, enabled on the upcoming N900 devices, but empty.10:48
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Stskeepsenabled? wow10:48
Stskeepsthat's a step up10:49
RST38hstep off the cliff, if you ask me: the qa process makes it near impossible to get there, especially if you update frequently10:49
Myrttioh, right, you can do that thumbing *there*10:49
MyrttiI had to *look* for that10:49
RST38hSts: Every revision of your program has to be thumbed up separately10:49
Myrttimakes sense, in it's weird way10:50
RST38hMyrtti: Complain to Niels, if enough people complain he will fix it10:50
Myrttinah, I think that this time it was PEBKAC10:50
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Myrttibut what it might need is a bit of explanation somewhere on that page10:51
Myrttion the queue or something10:51
RST38hMyrtti: I do think it is not PEBKAC10:51
RST38hMyrtti: You have to click through twice before you can vote, you vote on each revision for each platform separately10:52
Myrtti"This is the queue of fremantle extras-testing. To raise a karma of the application, you need to..."10:52
RST38hMyrtti: This is seriously messy process10:52
MyrttiRST38h: the process does have its merits though - when I now stop and think about it, it makes perfect sense10:52
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Myrttiof course you need to vote for each version separately10:53
Myrttiit's just not ... explained too well10:53
qwerty12_N810RST38h: It could be worse... I mean, I hear on some platforms that you have to get your application signed before you can install it!10:53
RST38hMyrtti: I already told the story of a Soviet supermarket once10:55
RST38hLet me see if I can find in in mgedmin's logs :)10:55
Myrttiand if someone says "this is explained on garage or talk or ..." I'm going to scream10:55
RST38hqwerty: I am always signing my Maemo packages10:55
qwerty12_N810That's optional10:55
Myrttibecause this process needs to be explained where the process is10:55
Myrttinot on some arbitrary page that needs to be searched for10:56
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MyrttiRST38h: I haven't heard the story but I can imagine the punchline of it10:58
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RST38hMyrtti: Anyway (google failed), there was that procedure in .SU department stores where to buy something you had to tell the girl what you want, get a piece of paper, go to cashier, exchange piece of paper and money for the second piece of paper, go back, exchange the 2nd piece for the actual item but only after a proper record is made in the book10:59
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RST38hMyrtti: It still exists in some really old stores. It is totally logical, prevents you from stealing merchandise, prevents the first goal from stealing money, etc.10:59
RST38hs/goal/girl (hm)11:00
RST38hMyrtti: The problem with it that it is absolute, total, insufferable pain in the ass (and also breeds long lines)11:00
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MyrttiRST38h: yeah, I recently looked the first episode of Michael Palin's From pole to pole11:01
RST38hMyrtti: I am not sure why Maemo needs to reimplement the same kind of procedure with Extras.11:01
Myrttihe tried to buy a bottle of vodka in 1989.11:01
Myrttior somewhere thereabouts11:01
RST38hWrong, wrong time to buy vodka11:01
lbtstart scared.... realise it's OK.... relax....11:01
lbtsomeone get some valium11:01
* Myrtti gives lbt some strawberry-flavoured valium syrup11:02
lbtOr maybe offer them some 1989 Vodka if there's any left11:02
Myrttihere you go11:02
RST38hMyrtti: vodka in 1989 would actually be an extreme case11:02
* lbt doses Nokia11:02
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RST38hMyrtti: With all the limitations on alcohol sales of that time. But he would still suffer buying other stuff.11:03
* Myrtti checks the date11:03
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MyrttiBBC, 199111:05
MyrttiI suspect it was shot a bit earlier though11:05
Myrttihe *did* travel from pole to pole and started from the north, traveling through Finland11:06
RST38hyea, that would also do11:06
* RST38h has seen a few episodes of that11:06
RST38hRussian one and Mongolian one, I think11:06
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* RST38h prays to the Tentacled One to make a visit to SigmaTel HQ11:15
qwerty12_N810He needs some sun, so he's in California eying up Apple's HQ11:16
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RST38hBetween him and El Jobso, I am not sure who is gonna win...11:19
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* johnx must be crazy: just updated to the ubuntu 9.10 beta a day after release11:20
Stskeepsoh boy11:20
* RST38h has got a job invitation from RIM in the meanwhile11:21
RST38hAnyone leaving in TX and enjoying kernel work, let me know, I will forward your resume to the guy11:21
johnxRST38h, maybe their looking for a fall-guy for surepress...I'd be wary11:21
* Stskeeps hugs qwerty12_N810 for brightness applet11:21
RST38h(shit, I am getting lousy with keys)11:21
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: heh11:23
RST38hok, I now know where this damn memory bandwidth problem is11:25
RST38h(and the funnniest part is that it is not even mine :()11:25
johnxmaybe I drank the kool-aid or something but 9.10 feels noticeably faster than 9.0411:28
RST38hthere have been desktop-related changes to Linux scheduler, right?11:29
johnxalso, ff3.5 vs ff311:29
johnxthough yeah, that sounds like something I remember hearing about11:30
RST38hjohnx: I somehow got upgraded to 3.5 but it still says Shiretoko 3.5.4pre11:30
RST38hjohnx: No idea what I have to do to make it show up like normal FF11:30
johnxRST38h, it kept 3.0 around for compatibility11:30
johnxso just wait for 9.10 and then hit the upgrade11:30
johnxthe situation with ff on linux is kinda special since it's the OS default/core/whatever browser, so they tend to be really conservative about upgrading it11:31
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lbtjohnx: would like to hear about how 9.10 compares to 9.04 - work does webdev and wants ff3.511:35
* RST38h fixed the problem by adding many, MANY NOPs11:35
johnxlbt, seems ok so far and it has this not-entirely-possible to quantify feeling of being "quicker" or "more responsive" or one of those words that drives devs mad :)11:36
johnxregressions: it ate my wifi driver11:37
johnxhad to run modprobe ath5k11:37
johnxthen all was well11:37
johnxalso, as always there's a little bit of foreign language input stuff that needs shaking out11:38
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RST38hzap: Here?11:45
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RST38hAh perfect! A kernel panic!11:52
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wazdHeya all12:27
Stskeepsheya wazd12:27
Stskeepswazd: do you have some hours during the weekend to make a mer and maemo summit combined template?12:28
Stskeepsfor presentations12:28
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waz1Damned phone12:33
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waz1Stskeeps: sure, I'll try to find some12:33
Stskeepshang on then12:33
waz1Template for slides?12:33
Stskeepsyeah, there's an existing one for the summit speakers, but we need a mer touch to it..12:34
Myrttiif I were to attend it and to speak, I'd demand LaTeX templates12:34
Myrttibut perhaps I'd be forced to do them myself :-D12:34
Stskeepsprobably :P12:35
waz1Stskeeps: cool thanks12:38
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lardmanmorning all12:41
Stskeepsmorn lardman12:41
lardmanhow are things in maemo land today?12:41
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Stskeepspresentation writing12:41
fralsmms research ;)12:41
lardmanah good good12:42
johnxplaying with mer on the zaurus12:42
lardmanjohnx: you still have a working battery!?12:42
johnxbut I figure if I can get this working there might be a couple hardcore zaurus users who'll come and play12:43
lardmanWell I may be able to power up my 750 and 5500 if needs be12:43
johnxdunno if there really are zaurus users out there though :/12:43
lardmanis oesf still active?12:44
lardmanwell there are some then12:44
lardmanbut users rather than hackers I guess?12:44
johnxvery likely12:45
lardmanor hackers who couldn't afford to buy new hw perhaps :)12:46
johnxactually, it does look kinda active12:46
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lardmanhmm, really need to either get this webscraping stuff working or just stop12:50
fralswhat site you scraping?12:50
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lardmanbarcode ones, amazon, barcodepedia, etc12:51
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lardmanI'm just not getting back the tags I wanted, obviously my code needs to be more careful about how it steps through the docs12:54
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lardmanhmm, haven't got time to do the libconic connection stuff either, drat12:56
fralsbtw, does anyone know if the "only one connection at a time" is a platform limit under maemo5?12:58
fralsim dont know too much about connection handling but shouldnt it be possible to have "dial up" (ie grps/3g) and a wlan connection at the same time in the linux kernel at least?12:59
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Stskeepssure,but default route..12:59
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fralsah right that was the problem13:00
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frals does this seem reasonable or did i get something wrong?13:49
thuxdoes support diablo browser?13:49
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thuxi got sms from mynokia that free music for 10e but when i boot my laptop nokia music page said that they don't support linux13:51
thuxonly xp and vista is supported and ie6 +13:52
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wjtzerojay: interesting; can you get some debugging output from it?13:53
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glassthux: yeh their music team is imebeciles13:54
wazdStskeeps: I can't open odp file :(13:54
Stskeepswazd: hmm, i guess i can make a scrshot13:54
lcuk2frals, seems reasonable to me as an outsider13:55
lcuk2Stskeeps, if the template comes back as a screenshot after can you just use that as a background13:55
fralsyeah thats what im thinking as well lcuk2, cheers :)13:55
wazdStskeeps: make it .png plz :)13:55
fralsneed someone who knows all that mumbojumbo now :D13:55
lcuk2my thoughts exactly :)13:56
lcuk2are you coming to the summit13:56
fralsme? no, im way to new here ;)13:56
fralsim glad to see you are going after all :)13:56
* lcuk2 nods :) big relief13:57
lcuk2Stskeeps, can you get him a highres full screen of that slide - so when he makes it hes not working from scaled images13:58
lcuk2ie screenshot from the slide running :P13:58
Stskeepslet's see..13:58
Stskeepslcuk2: i don't have a 16:9 screen so13:59
* lcuk2 guesses wazd will have the glyphs at the bottom anyway14:00
wazdStskeeps: can you make 100% shot plz?14:01
wazdStskeeps: you have 80%  now14:01
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fralsdo you need the outlines for it or just the background?14:03
wazdStskeeps: thx :)14:04
fralsnever realised powerpoint could export to png ^^14:04
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Stskeepswazd: basically i want some degree of mer touch to it.. not sure why we need black backgrounds in n900 style themes but hey..14:05
wazdStskeeps: I'll do my best :)14:09
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mojocafegood morning everyone. Anyone of you owns a n97 ?14:13
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bubububububuhi all. I'm a noob and I have a question regarding the set up of Esbox for maemo14:19
RST38hwazd: EHLO! Can you quickly add TI73 to that menu image and send it over?14:19
* RST38h is packaging apps for Fremantle and will do the Diablo packages in the process14:19
bubububububuI followed the instructions, got the virtual machine image, run the esbox setup14:19
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bububububububut I am stuck on this: esbox asks me (SMB mount) for username, workgroup/domain and password14:20
wazdRST38h: heya14:20
bubububububucan anybody guide me a bit from here?14:20
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wazdRST38h: looks like I've lost .psd with selection menu - wait za bit I'll redraw it :)14:23
wazdRST38h: 20 mins14:23
mojocafebubu: i had now problems at all - do you have some kind of user-profiles on your system? Is  it XP or Vista ?14:24
floppyromi have downloaded this Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Server_SDK_Virtual_Image from Esbox14:24
floppyromwhile running the wizzard I got stuck14:24
RST38hwazd: I can send you the pngs =)14:24
RST38h(there were two, the full one and the one with non-working ti models blanked)14:24
wazdRST38h: I have them :)14:25
* RST38h found how to attach images to mime types btw, so new packages will show gba/gb/sms/rom/etc files with correct icons14:25
RST38h"Martin will head a new unit that will work on the N900 and other devices using Maemo, according to an internal announcement. He was responsible for Internet and iPhone service strategy at Apple." <=== RUN FOR THE HILLS!14:26
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glass__let's hope he left apple for being pissed off at appstore stupidities14:28
floppyromHELP: I installed Esbox...that has a wizard that downloads Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Server_SDK_Virtual_Image for you I have loaded the image in Vmware, started it, configured Esbox to connect to the virtual image when I press validate machine from Esbox, another window pops up asking me about username, workgroup doman and password and here i got stuck14:29
RST38hglass: Lots of Apple strategy seems to be defined by el Jobso anyway14:30
glass__RST38h: yeh14:31
glass__RST38h: would be frustrating to come up with strategies under jobs..14:31
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wazdRST38h: haha, found  the psd)14:35
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wazdRST38h: maybe I should change bck to black, so it will look more sexy on n900?14:37
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RST38hwazd: As you think necessary :) Although both n8x0 and n900 will share the same image14:41
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RST38hwazd: You can even use some stealthy dotted background, like the surface of a golf ball rotated 45 degrees or something :)14:42
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LoCusF_has anyone experimented with the systemtap tool? I remember qwerty12_N810 had a post of it in the forum :)14:51
* qwerty12_N810 has never used SystemTap :)14:51
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waz1RST38h: I'll try to send you the file15:04
waz1RST38h: can you tell me your mail, can't load gmail addressbook15:05
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RST38hwaz1: luarvique at gmail.com15:11
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waz1RST38h: got it, trying to send :)15:12
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waz1RST38h: well, looks like it's out15:16
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waz1RST38h: nah,, failed again15:20
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Jaffacrashanddie: Still need me to ring you?15:21
JaffaAf'noon, all15:21
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waz1RST38h: and again15:23
RST38hwazd: checking15:24
RST38hwazd: not there =(15:24
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lardmanhi Jaffa15:36
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derflardman: Did you ever get those example barcode images that don't decode with zbar?15:38
lardmanno, sorry, been a busy week15:38
lardmanjust try any 1D barcode15:39
lardmanthis was v 0.815:39
derfOkay. spadix is preparing for another release mid-October, and I'd like to get this resolved by then.15:39
derfThat release will include the QR stuff.15:39
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lardmanit would always recognise an EAN8 code from what was actually an EAN1315:39
lardmancool, ok15:39
lardmanAfter this week coming I'll have some time to do some testing15:40
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lardmanderf: I understand the 0.9 code is better anyway15:47
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ShapeshifterDoes maemo run an actual X server, and is the touchscreen used as an input device to it, or is this all handled in an obscure and special way?15:54
StskeepsXomap, yes, it's an input device, but it's not Xorg15:54
Stskeepson N8x015:54
Stskeepson N900 it's a xorg15:54
AStormit is xorg, but old15:56
ShapeshifterI see. I wonder how hard it would be to get circular scrolling (instead of that silly hectical circular zoom), or circular zooming but starting from an outside area or corner. Similar to synaptics circular scrolling. You would start in a corner and then perform circular motion clockwise or anti-clockwise and it would scroll up and down or zoom in or out depending on the corner.15:56
AStormtouchscreen looks like a mouse to everything15:56
Mozillionspeaking of Xorg.. I'm using the fremantle sdk on Xephyr.. but there is... something.. with the colors.. there seems to be no red15:57
AStormand there is a way to get pressure reading15:57
RST38hnot really15:57
StskeepsMozillion: there's inverted colours problem i think15:57
AStormMozillion: wrong 16-bit format15:57
ShapeshifterAStorm: well, not really15:57
AStormShapeshifter: yes, yes really. it generates mouse events.15:57
ShapeshifterAStorm: there's lots of additional functionality to a touchpad/screen15:57
RST38hYou can read pressure but whatever you read can only be interpreted as pressed/not-pressed15:57
Mozillionoh, is there a workaround?15:57
AStormShapeshifter: no, none at all15:58
AStormthere's pressure and position.15:58
AStormthat's all.15:58
AStormRST38h: nah... it depends on an app15:58
AStormwhatever reads the pressure can react in various ways ;>15:59
ShapeshifterAStorm: no, the underlying driver can often create additional events. like e.g. on my synaptics pad, if I start in the upper right corner and then do a circular clockwise motion on the pad, the pad sends button5, (scrolling down), and not the position, as you say it would always do15:59
AStormShapeshifter: that's driver stuff15:59
Shapeshifterit can also register multiple position, and then send button715:59
ShapeshifterAStorm: yeah. that's what I'm saying.15:59
AStormit's NOT based on any special input from the screen itself15:59
AStormand no, this touchscreen driver doesn't do anything fance.15:59
ShapeshifterAStorm: "special input from the screen itself" ??15:59
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AStormfrom the pad.16:00
AStormyou could make an app just listen to mouse events w/o other synaptics junk16:00
AStormand do equivalent.16:00
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AStorm(now, have to read pressure as well, but I leave that as excercise to the reader :P)16:00
AStormyou just do a mouse grab16:02
AStormthat takes all mouse events16:02
AStormdo whatever you want with them16:02
AStormand send new mouse events. or others.16:02
Shapeshifterwasn't the n900 the phone where you could slide your finger from the left of the screen to do something?16:03
RST38hAStorm: does not depend on an app. Try reading directly from /dev/event*16:03
AStormRST38h: yes yes16:03
RST38hor /dev/input* whatever16:03
AStormbut that won't block X from taking them as well16:03
AStormwhile the grab will16:04
RST38hNo, I mean a different thing16:04
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AStormso, what do you mean?16:04
RST38hpressure readings will vary wildly across the screen16:05
RST38hso, you cannot really rely on them, just interpret them as a boolean value16:05
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AStormyou *can* interpret them more reasonably16:08
Shapeshifterso, I just found the demo video again. He swipes the finger from the left side of the screen, and then he gets a mouse pointer in the browser. that "swiping from left side", is it a special event from the input device (touchscreen), or what is it?16:08
AStormbut yes, they're very imprecise16:08
AStormand unstable too16:08
RST38hYou can probably create a model of the pressure distirbution across the screen16:08
AStormShapeshifter: it's a normal mouse event16:08
RST38hBut I have not seen this done in practice16:08
AStormthe app (window manager) responds to it16:08
ShapeshifterAStorm: so how does it know you came from the left, and not just started at the left side of the screen?16:09
AStormthere are x events sent in some time16:09
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AStormone at position foo, another at position foo+1 etc.16:09
AStormuse some basic math and you can deduct the move.16:10
Shapeshifterbut the touch area doesn't extend over the actual screen border, right?16:10
AStormno idea16:10
AStormI don't have the n90016:10
AStormif it does, then it's no different anyway16:10
AStormthose are still positions16:10
RST38hDLink web designer went mad.16:11
AStorm(either relative or absolute - I suspect the driver uses absolute)16:11
RST38hSomebody kill him please16:11
AStormX events always have absolute positions16:12
JaffaAny evolution experts?16:12
Myrttidon't talk about Evolution16:13
MyrttiI might throw up16:13
Myrttibrings back bad memories of trying to work with former employers Exchange server16:14
* Jaffa is trying to work out how, using the ebook API, Contacts manages to store several instances of the same field16:14
RST38hFor all your email needs.16:22
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* javispedro wakes up and sighs. 16:22
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RST38hgood morning, the time is 17:2316:23
fralsAStorm: would you mind reading through and see if i missed anything vital from your and ab's discussion the other week? as i dont quite have the techincal know-how in this field :)16:23
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javispedroRST38h, it's @600 here.16:25
frals1525 and i just woke up from a nap, so mornin ;)16:25
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* RST38h traceroutes16:26
javispedronow wait while I eat supper.16:26
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SpeedEvilfrals: you might for example have MMS server running as a user, and route all packets to and from that user to ppp-mms  interface.16:33
SpeedEvilfrals: mms-fetcher-daemon16:33
RST38hDon't you think that integrating MMS with the Fremantle messaging and picture sharing is a better idea?16:33
RST38hno need for separate daemons etc16:34
lcuk2it may take longer to implement and having a prototype interface would be a good start16:34
lcuk2so then it can be slotted into messaging asap16:34
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lcuk2the proof of concept would be better and also give the messaging ui guys time to work on a proper interface16:35
SpeedEvilI meant as a daemon simply to allow it to be seperated by iptables so it goes over the right interface16:35
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* RST38h does not think the encoding/decoding and sending parts are such a problem16:35
SpeedEvilnomatter what IP the MMS server is on, even if it's the same IP as a server on the alternate interface16:35
RST38hBut once you hit SMS and MMSCs, it is a different proble16:36
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fralsSpeedEvil: ie you bind it to the right interface, right?16:36
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SpeedEvilfrals: more or less16:36
SpeedEvilfrals: route add ppp:mmc - fails if there is also a server on on ppp:normal16:37
SpeedEvilhence iptables to segregate by user16:37
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Stskeepswb wazd16:38
fralsSpeedEvil: mind adding it to the wiki? :)16:38
SpeedEvilGoing to sleep now.16:38
RST38hfinally a well connected wazd16:38
fralsthanks for the input, ill try to add it in there somewhere then16:39
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wazdRST38h: not really)16:40
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wazdI'll be well connected on 7th16:41
Stskeepswhere the army hooks you up to electricity? ;)16:42
* frals is confused..
wazdArmy won't do anything to me now :)16:43
AStormfrals: looks good16:43
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AStormbut what I was thinking about is more like this:16:43
AStormbut it's crap16:44
AStormthat's iptables nat16:44
AStormI wanted an example with simple iproute2 nat ;p16:44
lcuk2frals, looks more like a slip, recert it perhaps..16:45
fralsyeah thats what im thinking as well lcuk216:45
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AStormfrals: just simple routes should be enough though16:45
fralsAStorm: thanks! okey, that looks a whole lot harder - but do you think the stuff i put there would work?16:45
AStormwhat we really need is for the ppp to expose separate interfaces per APN16:45
fralsyeah okey16:46
AStormand then all things are possible16:46
AStorme.g. the GPRS chip driver will have to look like x devices16:46
fralsso basically it needs to create a separate iface for each apn when you set one up16:46
wazdRST38h: modest refuses to send an email to you16:46
AStorm(which it is actually, it's a separate connection)16:47
ShadowJKhopefully you can just talk AT to it16:47
AStormthat's not the problem...16:49
AStormthe problem is how to hold multiple sessions16:49
AStormI wonder how APN stuff is done in the actual hardware16:49
AStormis it some tag in the packets?16:49
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RST38hwazd: ah screw modest, gmail ftw16:50
wazdRST38h: screw edge)16:50
ShadowJKwell if there's a thing you can talk AT to, hopefully you can open it twice; problem solved16:50
AStorm"hopefully" can't work16:51
AStormsince /dev/<foo> is blocked.16:51
AStormthe driver has to support that16:51
wazdI'll try to upload to radikal16:51
AStormwhich means that it might have to track separate AT states16:51
AStormit is easy if AT state is shared and only APN is different16:52
droid001where is the git for n900 kernel?16:52
RST38hwazd: I Megafon rolls out outdoor 3G I will switch.16:52
AStormdroid001: linux-omap likely16:52
RST38hwazd: (on the other hand, their rates suck)16:52
ShadowJKit's probably a daemon talking phonet (fonet?) to hardware and at to apps16:52
* RST38h has to go out for ann hour or so16:52
AStormShadowJK: unlikely16:52
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AStormphonet was to die16:52
wazdRST38h: wait a bit16:53
AStormI find it unlikely that nokia were to implement some old protocol in a new chip (if it's theirs)16:53
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ShadowJKsince it was already revealed somewhere that there's a sort of at-to-phonet executable you can use to enable bluetooth tethering16:54
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AStormhow does phonet support APNs?16:55
ShadowJKwe dont know anything about phonet.16:55
droid001AStorm: can you actualy build the n900 kernel? Howto somewere?16:55
AStormdroid001: No idea.16:56
AStormI don't have an N90016:56
AStormand likely no howto16:56
AStormuse your skull contents16:56
ShadowJKbut it works just fine in symbian world.. phone can hold 3 APNs open and a fourth through bluetooth DUN, then I ran out of APNs :-)16:56
AStormdroid001: it means you need a right arm crosscompiler (e.g. in scratchbox)16:57
AStormand set the right ARCH=<foo>16:57
AStormthen make .config with the correct drivers16:57
AStormthe "correct drivers" bit depends on hardware knowledge that I don't have16:57
AStormso I can't help there16:57
AStormbut setups for beagleboard should at least somewhat work16:57
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droid001n900 got my attention;), so I am trying to figure out how free the system actually is. I didnt found *any* info about the n900 kernel developement. Is it closed somewere behind the nokia walls?17:02
Stskeepsdroid001: they've released kernel sources in pre-alpha, pre-alpha2, alpha, beta, beta217:03
AStormdroid001: the actual patch used is downloadable17:04
AStormand actually all the work is in linux-omap kernel tree17:04
AStormor will soon be there17:04
AStormlinux-omap is googlable. do that.17:04
droid001ok, ty17:04
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zerojaywjt: Woke up to that nice Crash reporter dialog box saying telepathy-haze crashed. I sent it in. Let me know what I need to do to grab debug output for you and I'll be happy to do so.17:08
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ShapeshifterI don't get why so many people want MMS >.>17:09
Shapeshifterit's total rubbish, useless, stupid.17:10
Stskeepsno idea, but it's good community can try to use it :P17:10
Stskeeps / make17:10
Myrttiif I'm really bored, I might blog about the usecases and rationality why people want MMS17:11
Myrttithis would be after I've written my entry about audiobook software17:12
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Stskeepsi think, honestly, that the only use of MMS i've heard about has been some degree of adults sending naughty pics of themselves..17:12
JaffaAnd kids too17:13
Stskeepswhich i must admit, MMS is probably a decent technology for.17:13
Stskeepsespecially at that price. :P17:13
MyrttiI think, honestly, that it's the most affordible way of sending/receiving pictures of your cousins cat, if you're not internet savvy enough to be hooked on Internet 24/717:13
AStormShapeshifter: just so we can send pics of our wieners17:14
Myrttior audio for that matter17:14
AStormShapeshifter: ;)17:14
ShadowJKI received an mms once. one of my clients wanting me to keep an eye out for his lost cat17:14
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Myrttiand from my relatives, the percentage of those non-internet savvy people would be about - 95%17:14
Myrttiso I can somewhat relate to the need of having it17:15
Stskeepswhat i do worry about is overestimating current data plans and relying too much on 3g connectity..17:15
* Stskeeps really needs to find a proper data plan at orange.pl17:15
Stskeepscombined with phone17:16
AStormStskeeps: Premium.17:16
lcuk+1 stskeeps - its good to have, but for most people wont be an infinte resource17:16
AStormno N900 there yet17:16
AStormso don't bother.17:16
StskeepsAStorm: i still have a 3g phone for tethering17:16
AStormStskeeps: Premium Pro is damn large17:16
AStormor what was it called17:16
StskeepsPremium being a company or a orange thing/17:16
Myrttitrue - the non-internet savvy part is not going to buy a N90017:16
AStormnow they have 5 different plans17:16
* Stskeeps tries to find17:16
Myrttibut still, in general, it's a feature that is needed17:16
AStormwith different limits and that extra wifi hotspot stuff in more expensive ones17:16
AStormrange is excellent IMO17:17
fralsim afraid my 200mb plan wont last long on my n900, on the other hand for 6€ more i get 1gb and then throttled to 64kbps for the rest of the month so not that bad of a deal17:17
AStorm200 MB is too little indeed17:17
AStormhere, the lowest is 500 MB17:17
zerojayI go through that almost daily.17:17
AStormand I think it's too little as well17:17
AStormzerojay: huh?17:17
AStormon n810?17:17
* ShadowJK uses a few gigabytes daily17:18
AStormwhat are you doing there17:18
MyrttiMMS is the gateway drug to mobile internet17:18
AStormShadowJK: torrents don't count17:18
fralsim used to browsing on my n95 atm with mobile versions and without loading pictures, and last month i only used 10mb somehow17:18
zerojayNo, not on N810.17:18
AStormdon't use HSPA for torrents17:18
AStormit works, but most phones overheat ;p17:18
AStormhopefully n900 won't17:18
ShadowJKright now streaming music @ 192kbit/s, downloaded a gig of crap from youtube, etc17:19
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AStormstill, transfer limits are too low for that17:19
AStormgig from youtube? wtf?!17:19
AStormnote that n900 has 800x480 screen17:19
AStormso anything larger is waste of bandwidth17:19
zerojayI freaked out a friend at the mall once. We were in a store and heard a song we liked. Looked up the lyrics, found the song title, searched for it on mininova, downloaded it with Transmission. Whole thing took maybe 10 minutes.17:19
* ShadowJK convinced youtube to give him 640x48017:20
AStormyep, that thing worked17:20
AStormI did that with ctorrent earlier17:20
mavhcI assume n900 can actually play 800x480 videos, unlike n81017:20
AStormmavhc: n810 can too... but not flash17:20
mavhch264? xvid?17:21
AStormh264 is too heavy.17:21
crashanddieJaffa, nope, all good17:21
ShadowJKmy p3 1ghz wouldn't play 800x480 h26417:21
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AStormShadowJK: hehe, but n810 has dsp to offload sound decoding17:22
AStormand the cpu is more geared for media17:22
AStormSIMD? ;p17:22
ShadowJKP3 has more SIMD...17:22
AStormlol, no17:23
AStormit has the most basic SSE.17:23
AStormit wins on memory bandwidth17:23
ShadowJKit has mmx2 too, it's one of the more usefuk17:23
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AStormwell, armel simd is powerful enough17:24
AStormesp. if you combine with VFP17:24
AStorm(here and there)17:24
ShadowJKyeah but the diablo toolchain can't compile it ;)17:24
ShadowJKtoo old gas17:24
AStormcan't compile what17:24
AStormVFP or simd?17:24
AStormah, yes.17:24
ShadowJKatleast with n900 there exists lots of neon code17:25
ShadowJKand the dsp codecs are atleast now on-par with software decoding17:25
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ShadowJKdo we have any specs on that actually, what the dsp h264 decode supports?17:26
AStormI don't.17:27
ShadowJKI mean if it only does h2s64 baseline then people have to re-encode or use software for random crap downloaded from internet17:28
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EspadaV8i'm really liking the n90017:29
EspadaV8never tried the n8x017:29
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AStormn8x0 is more like computer it seems17:34
AStormor a palmtop17:34
AStormdifferent feel17:34
* ShadowJK thinks of n900 as computer with integrated 3g modem17:35
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EspadaV8holy cow17:36
EspadaV8yay me17:36
EspadaV8i've just compiled, copied and ran my program on the 900 :-)17:37
* frals|m is looking forward to just attaching his screen from the n900 instead of this ircclient while on the move17:37
EspadaV8how do you take a screenshot on the device?17:38
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lcukEspadaV8, on device  press shift,ctrl and p at the same time. You will find your screenshot17:41
lcukthen under images.17:41
ShapeshifterEspadaV8: you have one?17:42
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EspadaV8lcuk: thanks, i'll give it a go17:47
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EspadaV8:( didn't seem to work17:49
EspadaV8Shapeshifter: mhmm17:49
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lardmanargh, gst is really pissing me off now17:51
crashanddiegoods and service tax17:52
frals|mI see17:52
lardmanthat is also annoying ;)17:52
crashanddieJaffa, I'm getting pissed off at over-engineered, over-complicated developments17:53
kynkyuse mplayer?17:53
kynkygstreamer seems to take same approach as directshow aka ms17:53
crashanddiemy solution: 2 days, 3k17:54
frals|mIm getting slightly annoyed with the fact it smells like someone is making his dinner in this metro17:54
crashanddiearchitect's solution: 20 days, 50k17:54
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lardmancrashanddie: you should have charged 4k17:54
crashanddieadded security? None. Added usability? None. Added inconvenience? Yes, all the users lose their synchronisation17:55
lardmanfremantle extras-testing reports a size mismatch error for gstreamer0.10-tools17:57
lardmanor rather apt-get reports it17:57
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ShapeshifterEspadaV8: how's your battery life?17:59
lardmanhmm, I seem to remember there's a way to check the caps of a camera using gst-inspect or similar. Anyone have any pointers?18:00
lardmanah, gst-inspect v4l2camsrc18:01
crashanddielardman, you wouldn't know/have a flat for rent?18:02
lardmannot while I'm still living in it, no, why's that? you coming to Bath?18:02
EspadaV8Shapeshifter: not sure yet, only got it yesterday and it's been plugged in all the time18:03
EspadaV8been trying to get my program ported to it18:03
crashanddielardman, true, you live in the arsehole of england18:03
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ShapeshifterEspadaV8: I see18:03
frals|mWhat program is that?18:03
lardmanhmm, never heard the world heritage city called that before18:04
EspadaV8alas, it's not 'mine' :(18:04
EspadaV8just on loan18:04
EspadaV8frals|m: it's called QPalringo18:04
ShapeshifterEspadaV8: do you know the keys on a HTC touch pro2 ? I'm always wondering how the n900 keys compare to those, because they are really nice (while the keys on the n97 I find quite bad).18:04
EspadaV8it's a program for the place I work for, although I do it as open source using Qt18:04
Shapeshifterah palringo... the IM messenger? know it from the iphone18:04
EspadaV8yep, the very one :-)18:05
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EspadaV8i'm 'Andy (PC)' and 'Andy - Linux' if you're ever in the palringo group18:05
crashanddielardman, it's far from everything civilised18:05
EspadaV8it's just a pet project to learn Qt and C++18:06
lardmanwe have hot baths, you can't get much more civilised18:06
crashanddielardman, airport?18:07
crashanddieinsulin provision?18:07
lardmanso the plebs can get in easily!? Never18:07
frals|mCivilisation starts at 100mbps! ;)18:08
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lardmanwell I do have insulin18:08
EspadaV8it's far from a good program, but it passes the time, and seeing it run on this is great :-)18:08
felipecShadowJK: the codec we are using supports up to WVGA H.264 decoding... only base profile18:08
ShadowJKI forget, what's wvga in numbers?18:09
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felipecShadowJK: WVGA is anything wider than VGA... 848x480, 800x48018:09
ShadowJKwhat about the mpeg4 codec, simple profile or advanced simple profile?18:10
* ShadowJK guesses simple :)18:10
ShadowJK(no qpel and gmc)18:10
felipecShadowJK: I'm not entirely sure, but I think at least gmc is supported18:10
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lardmananyone know what the N900 camera default framerate is for video?18:12
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felipeclardman: 25 fps18:12
felipecyou mean from the camera-ui?18:13
lardmanno, gstreamer18:13
lardmanI get an error with the caps trying to set it to 15fps18:13
lardmanwhich is what's shown in the dev guide; though this is slightly different as I want UYVY output18:13
felipeclardman: which dev guide? I guess that's very old =/18:14
lardmanthe one in the wiki18:15
lardmando you know the lowest framerate it will support?18:15
lardman8,1 gives caps errors, that's what I use on the N8x0 devices18:15
felipeclardman: afaik the actual framerates are a bit tricky: 1502/100, 2999/10018:15
ShadowJK24000/1001? ;P18:16
lardmanshame gstreamer won't go for the closest supported one when you ask it for some fraction18:16
lardmanI'll try that ~15fps one and see how that goes18:16
felipecyeah... GStreamer limitation :(18:17
lardmanare the fractions listed anywhere?18:17
lardmankernel driver or something?18:17
felipeclardman: I've no idea... but probably yeah, in the driver18:17
* felipec checks18:17
lardmanah, probably in the gstreamer source, now I think about it18:20
felipeclardman: I can't find it in the kernel18:22
lardmanNo, nor could I18:22
lardmanI'm looking in gstv4l2camsrc.c now from the plugins source18:23
felipeclardman: ensonic on #gstreamer might now18:23
lardmanok, does he have a device?18:23
lardmanor do I need to work out what type of hw the camera is to tell him?18:23
felipeclardman: yeah, he is on the mmf team in maemo :)18:23
lardmanok, will pop over once I've checked this file and ask him18:24
felipeclardman: actually you met him on last Maemo Summit18:24
lardmanoh right, I have troubles linking names & nicks18:26
felipechehe, yeap, and ensonic doesn't help :p18:27
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EspadaV8Shapeshifter: sorry, missed the question, not sure which the touch pro2 is, let me just google it18:31
EspadaV8Shapeshifter: tbh, i think the n97 keyboard looks nicer than the n90018:33
EspadaV8and the TP2 looks even better18:34
EspadaV8my 2 main issues with the n900 so far are the really small keyboard and the non-tilting screen18:34
Shapeshiftermhh. I think I don't mind the non-tilting screen but the keys really look small and very close together.18:35
fralswhats your previous experience with phone-sized qwertys like? just to put it in perspective18:35
ShapeshifterI like that the TP2 ones are quite far apart18:36
EspadaV8i couldn't name any of the phones, but they've mostly been htc phone18:37
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EspadaV8have tried the n97, and was very disappointed with that18:38
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EspadaV8the 900 has a much better touchscreen than the 97 and 580018:40
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ShadowJKthose been new 97 and new 5800 or used ones?18:40
EspadaV8still not a capacitive screen though :(18:41
EspadaV8new ones18:41
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EspadaV8i was hoping to replace my n95 8gb with the 9718:42
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EspadaV8might very well replace it with this though18:42
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EspadaV8having a full distro is nice, as is being able to code in qt for it :)18:43
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ShadowJKwhat annoys me with my n800 and n810 is that the sensitivity is excellent some parts of the screen and not so sensitive other parts of the screen18:43
EspadaV8not noticed that here, but i do find myself using the stylus most of the time18:46
Shapeshiftera real pity that it's not capacitive.18:47
ShapeshifterI'd pay an extra 50 bucks for it.18:47
* ShadowJK 'd pay 50 extra to not have capacitive18:47
EspadaV8really? how come?18:48
ShadowJKI'd rather be able to use stylus and get accuracy when needed than have multitouch18:49
EspadaV8if the ui is done right though, you shouldn't need a stylus to be accurate... or just not need to be accurate18:51
droid001heh, why is this hidden? - Directory listing is not allowed18:51
fralsafter using my gfs 5800 and a friends iphone, i can honestly say i prefer the resistive :p18:51
ShadowJKespadav8: yeah stylus is better for normal apps18:51
EspadaV8i hate the iphone, ask anyone that knows me, but ido think that apple has a nice screen18:51
Stskeepsdroid001: because it's closed binaries there. if you accept EULA, you get acces18:51
lcukdroid001, because it is accessed after accepting a eula18:51
ShadowJKthat you haven't spent 100 hours hacking on to make them huge fingerpainting excercises18:51
lcukand available from apt/package manager18:51
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ShadowJKalthough, I use 9 point font size in xchat, and the channel selector has plain list with 9 point text too, and I seem able to select the right line with thumb most of the time (without using nail)18:53
ShadowJKof course with stylus I always get the right one :-)18:53
ShapeshifterI don't like styluses18:54
Shapeshiftermatter of taste18:54
ShadowJKand stylus fits in hand anyway, even when typing on keyboard with both hand :-)18:54
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ShadowJKI like to have LOTS of content on screen at the same time18:55
ShadowJKmaking UI elements thumb-sizec seriously limits that :(18:55
lcukeverything has its place18:55
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lcukgeneral navigation and things expecting finger work just as well with a stylus18:56
EspadaV8i usually like a lot of content on the screen at the same time, but i think on a phone, having easier to use widgets is more useful18:57
lcukif it flows, having big nav entries just makes it easier.  once you get into specific activities, if lots of choice is wanted - the stylus is perfect18:57
EspadaV8without having to get the stylus out to check a box, or whatever18:57
* lcuk nods18:57
droid001Stskeeps: what's inside? can I build a usable system without binary blobs?18:58
EspadaV8i am hoping that with nokia having Qt, doing Ovi app on the n900 on linux, this'll mean having Ovi Suite for linux too, so i can start syncing my phone :-)18:59
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Stskeepsdroid001: depends. are you OK with closed blobs as long as you can use them in your system?19:01
Stskeepsdroid001: if you don't, i'm not getting into that discussion.. if yes, check out
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Stskeeps(which, in my opinion, is a much saner way to go about things than getting C&D'ed :)19:05
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EspadaV8lordy it runs slow :(19:21
Stskeepswhat does?19:23
EspadaV8yay, and i just seg faulted :(19:24
EspadaV8Stskeeps: the app i'm working on19:24
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EspadaV8trying to get it working on the 90019:26
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t_s_oweird, what is a program that seems to be aimed at N900 doing in the os2008 download list on
javispedroprobably not aimed, but just someone did the sshot in the wrong SDK version.19:33
t_s_ocould be19:34
javispedrothere was another app with a fremantle sshot.19:34
javispedroah, still on fresh list:
t_s_ohrmf, seems feedhandler have not made it to the repo yet...19:35
t_s_obasically, i cant find anywhere to download it...19:35
javispedroi submited an app this morning and it already made it to -devel.19:35
t_s_owell i guess feedhandler wont work with tear anyways, so...19:37
droid001Stskeeps: I don't have the slitest problem with closed source :) I know almost everything about the android system structure, but I have no much clue about maemo. Also do you mean it is alowed after some EULA click for build scripts to suck it from ftp? That's for sure way better than c&d ;) Android kernel itself is full os, but the system is not (jet) usable for actual devices without binary userspace parts. I'm just looking at how ist the binary/19:38
EspadaV8i'm hoping 2 weeks is going to be enough to get my app into a state where i can submit it19:38
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EspadaV8shameless plug...
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Stskeepsdroid001: in this system you would go to a site, agree to EULA & indicate you own a device, and then that token is part of a URL where you can grab stuff :)19:46
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Stskeepsso you can feed that info in a image build process if you wanted19:47
Stskeeps(btw, this is something we are implementing)19:49
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RST38hwazd: Moo?19:57
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droid001Stskeeps: oh I see, ty. In android I am able to build the kernel + system just following a howto ( ). I didn't found jet something like that for maemo ;)20:00
Stskeepsyeah. that's where Mer comes in20:00
droid001what is Mer?20:00
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droid001Stskeeps: I thought it was meant as support for old devices. Are they also on the way to qt?20:06
Stskeepsdroid001: we are community arm and not just old devices :)20:07
Stskeepswe'll run on n900 just fine for instance20:07
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droid001Stskeeps: omap;) what's with the transition to qt?  I am not realy a gtk freak :)20:12
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Stskeepsdroid001: we already have qt-maemo but we're waiting for nokia's hand in this20:23
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pupnik_trying to listen to a quiet mp3 file and wish it were * LOUDER *?  try  mplayer -ao alsa -af volnorm comp volume=1.2 *.mp320:26
javispedroor vote for replaygain support!20:26
pupnik_shazam.  now fills a room20:26
ShadowJKpupnik_, I think you've messed up the syntax a bit20:27
pupnik_i do too20:27
ShadowJK-af volnorm,comp,volume=1.2 might work better20:27
ShadowJKbut I'd probably try just -af volnorm first20:27
pupnik_volume should be more like 2.0 also20:29
pupnik_memory fail20:29
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* lcuk shivers20:48
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* crashanddie_ gives lcuk a blanket20:48
* SpeedEvil gives lcuk a t-shirt soaked in petrol.20:48
* qwerty12_N810 thinks SpeedEvil's idea is better20:49
lcukta crashanddie_ i prefer your suggestion20:50
* lcuk is brassic20:50
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* SpeedEvil is in a 15C room ATM.20:52
SpeedEvilThough I'm on the sofa, with blankets over me, and a little electric heatpad behind me.20:53
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RST38hyou have got your Intel(tm) PC on you?20:54
lcukSpeedEvil, sounds like me lol20:54
lcukmy crt monitor used to keep me warm20:55
SpeedEvilRST38h: It's keeping my hands warm.20:55
EspadaV8oh wow, i just realised who you are lcuk20:55
* SpeedEvil is insulating the house ATM - and going to be doing _very_ little heating.20:55
lcukEspadaV8, mm should i also know who you are?20:55
GeneralAntilleslol, just reading the Apple exec thread.20:55
EspadaV8lcuk: nope20:56
EspadaV8highly unlikely20:56
lcukthen introduce yourself properly, no point in you knowing me but not vice versa :P20:57
EspadaV8i remember seeing a vid for liqbase ages back20:57
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lcukyoutube down for maint :O20:58
RST38hgan: fear and loathing?20:58
crashanddie__lcuk, your connection shite too?20:58
qwerty12_N810Where will the retards go now?20:58
SpeedEvillcuk: they're taking it down in order to remove all the boring videos.20:59
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lcuksounds like a plan20:59
Firebird:o its been down since 12:30 EST20:59
* EspadaV8 is mysterious like a ninja20:59
EspadaV8i'm a nobody really20:59
EspadaV8although i sometimes answer to the name Andy20:59
SpeedEvilon homepage - quicker than asking if things are down21:01
crashanddie__only sometimes?21:01
lcukEspadaV8, manchester lad?21:02
EspadaV8well, from manchester21:02
EspadaV8living in newcastle now21:02
EspadaV8(upon tyne)21:02
* lcuk nods21:03
EspadaV8playing with the n900 :-)21:03
lcukyou ahvent updated your sebsitei n a while lol21:03
RST38htype n900,iphone into google trends21:03
EspadaV8hahaha, no, not at all21:03
lcukso how have you got an n900!21:03
EspadaV8i never have anything interesting to write21:03
EspadaV8kind of, not to keep :(21:04
EspadaV8on loan21:04
lcukits doing a publicity tour of the uk?21:04
lcukor just you lol21:04
EspadaV8loaned from nokia through work21:04
SpeedEvilRST38h: not very great :/21:05
crashanddie__"Fraudsters are attempting to contact customers by telephone pretending to be from HSBC. The fraudsters are advising that there is a problem with your card and that a courier will come and collect the card and PIN."21:06
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crashanddie__who the fuck is stupid enough to actually hand over the card and PIN?21:06
crashanddie__If that actually works, I'm on the wrong side of the legal fence21:06
SpeedEvilcrashanddie:  you're seriously asking this question?21:06
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: customers have - sort-of gotten the message on phishing.21:07
SpeedEvilBut not very much.21:07
SpeedEvilAnything more innovative is very likely to succeed with a large fraction of people.21:07
crashanddie__I'm working my ass off, implementing these fancy security systems for banks and stuff21:08
crashanddie__but behind the scenes, they couldn't care less21:08
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie__, well, duh. :P21:09
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crashanddie__one of my customers, on one side, they're being very anal about the fact they want the PIN to be printed securely through an HSM directly connected to the printer21:09
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SpeedEvilI'm with RBS. They give me a nice little smartcard reader.21:09
crashanddie__so that basically, the PIN never gets decrypted. Even the spooling is actually encrypted21:09
crashanddie__SpeedEvil, yup, I deployed that21:10
SpeedEvilCan I use it with my chip and pin card to login?21:10
SpeedEvilOf course not.21:10
* SpeedEvil sighs.21:10
crashanddie__SpeedEvil, sorry?21:10
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SpeedEvilI have to go through the stupid password/passphrase/...21:10
crashanddie__oh, that, yeah, they rolled it out in eastern europe21:10
crashanddie__it's coming in the UK pretty soon though21:10
SpeedEvilyeah - Uk21:11
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crashanddie__But when that same customer I was talking about previously needs to do a migration of usernames and passwords, in order to go around a technical limitation, I'm saying I can't retrieve the passwords from our system, just like that21:11
crashanddie__and they're like "But err, can't you just dump it to a text file?"21:11
RST38hyea right? and print it out so that they can let their clerks type them back in?21:12
SpeedEvilSecurity requirements that just annoy the deliverer of stuff to them are important.21:12
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SpeedEvilBut if they get in 'my' way, of course I'm never going to do anything bad, so just ignore it.21:12
crashanddie__it's quite funny21:13
SpeedEvilIt's insane that paypal has much better login security than my bank21:14
SpeedEvil(with the hardware token)21:14
crashanddie__the smaller the bank, the bigger the security21:14
crashanddie__the bigger the bank...21:14
crashanddie__I get a meeting maker in my inbox for some customer, so, on the day (last week), we suit up, and head to the address, it's a big customer, like 8 digits big21:14
crashanddie__we head to the desk, and say we're here to meet "Jack Foobar" (not actual name), he should be expecting us21:15
mavhcbank/credit cards are so insecure it's amazing they're legal, "sure, I'll give you my bank account number and that lets you take any amount of money you want from my account", or "sure, here's my card number, and the number on the back, and I'll type my password (pin) into your device"21:16
SpeedEvilPity. Jack FooBar would be an awesome name21:16
RST38hmavhc: this is not actually true for either of my banks, and they are large21:16
lardmanhmm, thought I'd got rid of this particular problem, the second time I try running my pipeline, there's no output displayed21:16
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mavhcthat's not banks, that's shops21:16
keesjSpeedEvil: Interstring trends . I also tried n900,maemo  that tell you somethiing about how many people know about maemo21:17
SpeedEvilkeesj: yeah21:17
crashanddie__receptionist asks us to sit down, 5 minutes later, a very busy girl, looking like another receptionist, arrives and asks us to follow her21:17
crashanddie__we still hadn't given our names at this point21:17
crashanddie__we go to the 7th floor, and we are asked to wait21:17
mavhcyou give your card number to amazon, they take whatever they want out of your account21:17
crashanddie__another girl comes and picks us up, and brings us to this big broad door, opens it up, and lets us in, we stand in front of 15 guys in suits, all grey, in the middle of a meeting21:17
SpeedEvilpus it into context21:17
SpeedEvilcrashanddie__: were you patted down for ak47s?21:17
crashanddie__turns out the guy we were supposed to meet has the exact same name as the CFO or whatever21:18
RST38halso try maemo vs windows mobile21:18
mavhctrends != search traffic21:18
RST38hcrashanddie: sweet21:18
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keesjThe thing is that even my linux using colleages most of the time don't know what maemo is. It does not make it easyer to tell it's the os behind Nokia's first open source based phone21:19
crashanddie__mavhc, the number on the back is not on the mag stripe / obtainable through chip21:19
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df00zHm, is there a maemo emulator available?  Im trying to decide between the N900 and the motorola cliq...the n900 has a lot better hardware but im worried about maemo :P21:20
RST38hAlso try n900,n810,n800 - gives good idea of how Maemo marketing works21:20
df00zi had a sharp zaurus once..21:20
RST38hdf00z: N900.21:20
df00zis there a way to try Maemo on the PC21:20
crashanddie__mavhc, the whole point of the chip is that it signs transactions digitally, usually through Challenge Response. You can't clone the information on the chip, regardless of having the PIN or not21:20
RST38hdf00z: Motorola Cliq is a generic Android phone. You will be able to buy these by dozen in 201021:20
df00zlike in virtualbox or something21:20
RST38h(or come up with a better alternative :))21:20
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keesjgiven 770,n800,n810,n900 google should really be able to suggest a new name for the next gen model21:21
df00zim wondering if nokia is going to get an app store up21:21
df00zmaemo select or w/e21:21
RST38hThere is already a software repository. It mostly contains free apps21:21
RST38hMay start including more paid apps later21:21
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GeneralAntillesWhere do I find the scratchbox sources.lists?21:22
mavhccrashanddie__: my point is you just give out access to your bank account to all these shops for no real reason, and trust them to take what they said, and not steal/lose your details, and the bank to pay you back if they're evil21:22
SpeedEvilcrashanddie__: of course if you copy the magstrip, you can then use it in countries which don't do chip and pin21:22
GeneralAntillesAh, nevermind.21:22
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df00zis there a maemo emulator21:22
RST38hdf00z: (this is for the pre-n900 devices, n900 will look similar)21:22
RST38hThere is a maemo emulator (made by hrw) but it requires a geek to set up21:22
crashanddie__SpeedEvil, which are getting less and less possible, and usually fraud detection picks up on those -- or it's very easy to prove you weren't in that country at the time21:23
df00zwell i run linux, and have used openembedded directly to port a few apps21:23
df00zfor my zaurus21:23
RST38hA moment then.21:23
crashanddie__mavhc, you're not giving away any bank account information when paying with V/MC w/e21:23
mavhcwhat you should be doing is generating a blob that says "give $50 to the person who can rsa decrypt this blob, rsa signed, me"21:23
df00zif developing for maemo is anything like using openembedded im going to turn around and run the other direction :p21:23
mavhcyou're missing the point21:24
crashanddie__mavhc, I don't you understand how CC work21:24
mavhcI know how they work, badly21:24
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* RST38h can't parse what crashanddie has said =)21:24
mavhcthat's why there's bank fraud21:24
crashanddie__RST38h, Visa/MasterCard21:24
df00zrst38h: thanks, this makes perfect sense, i'll try it out21:25
mavhcscrap the whole system, start again with digital certificates21:25
crashanddie__mavhc, I work in the industry, what is your relation/knowledge of the CAP standarD?21:25
keesjalso guess from what country most searches come for the n900 :p21:25
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mavhcI'm not invested in keeping the current system going21:25
RST38hkeesj: CHINA!21:25
crashanddie__mavhc, so what exactly is the issue with the EMV/CAP standard then?21:25
mavhcit relies on trust21:26
crashanddie__mavhc, what are the benefits of encryption over signature as it is done now?21:26
mavhcno replay attacks21:26
crashanddie__mavhc, EMV/CAP does not allow for replay21:26
RST38hBut Russian Federation is the second.21:26
RST38hNo idea what Vietnam is doing at the third place though21:26
mavhcso I can't copy down your credit card number and give myself more money?21:26
mavhchow does the bank know that amazon's not lying when it says I owe them $50?21:27
crashanddie__multiple things21:27
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crashanddie__first of all, in order to be able to use banking systems, companies pay quite a bit of money to have that privilege. And the amount they are allowed to claim/invoice is based on their agreements21:28
mavhc2 things: 1. 2 months later I check my statement and tell the bank it's a lie, and 2. amazon don't want to lose their access to the bank system21:28
mavhcif I never gave amazon my card number it wouldn't be a problem21:29
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crashanddie__mavhc, so your point is... ?21:29
crashanddie__Give everyone soft certificates, so that all the keyloggers in the world can claim billions in less than a minute?21:29
mavhcthat the system sucks and should be replaced by something that's actually more secure than reading my emails21:29
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SpeedEvilThere are cards that would actually work21:30
SpeedEvilwith keypads in them21:30
crashanddie__lol, that's bollocks21:30
SpeedEvilbut nobody has deployed them widespread yet21:30
crashanddie__none of those protos actually have a chip in them21:30
mavhcthat's why they have single use card numbers, because it's a problem21:30
SpeedEvilI mean in principle there is nothing stopping it being done.21:30
crashanddie__SpeedEvil, actually, there's a lot of things stopping it21:30
SpeedEvilIf someone'd drop 100k or so on getting production started21:31
SpeedEvilcrashanddie__: yeah - reliabiloity forex.21:31
mavhcinertia's stopping it21:31
SpeedEvilGetting it to work for a week is trivial.21:31
SpeedEvilGetting it to work for 3 years - with 95% of cards surviving is hard21:31
mavhcit's the banks that are losing money due to the crappy system, they should really fix it21:31
crashanddie__SpeedEvil, at the moment they can't miniaturise the system enough to comply the systems (size and thickness of the card), my company has invested over $600k in keypads in smartcards21:31
crashanddie__s/the systems/with the standards/21:32
infobotcrashanddie__ meant: SpeedEvil, at the moment they can't miniaturise the system enough to comply with the standards (size and thickness of the card), my company has invested over $600k in keypads in smartcards21:32
mavhcthat's so annoying21:32
SpeedEvilcrashanddie__: I hadn't been following it that closely. I'm just trying to source some cryptographically secure system for my doorlock. Which is probably overkill.21:32
mavhcwireless transfer, triv21:32
crashanddie__SpeedEvil, just take a smartcard with a signing certificate on it21:32
lcukbig fat padlock21:33
crashanddie__SpeedEvil, or dual-channel smartcard21:33
SpeedEvilcrashanddie__: yeah - I was hoping for something smaller, and wearable.21:33
crashanddie__SpeedEvil, a smartcard isn't wearable?21:33
crashanddie__I wear mine 5 days a week :)21:33
mavhca smart tie pin21:33
crashanddie__mavhc, the amount of money banks or losing through fraud is negligeable21:34
mavhcyou say this is a smartcard? I say why isn't it wearing a tux?21:34
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mavhcso only $billions?21:34
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crashanddie__even less than that21:34
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: I mean wearable so that I can wear it 24*7 - so if I go outside in underpants and boots to close the greenhouse in the wind, I don't lock myself out21:34
mavhchow much are they spending on all these systems to predict when transactions are evil?21:34
lcukSpeedEvil, embed it21:34
lcuknether regions21:34
crashanddie__mavhc, about $8 an hour in India21:34
lcukthen get arrested21:34
lcuk"I'm unlocking the door officer"21:34
SpeedEvillcuk: I really just want a little linux system that'll fit in 0.5*1*1cm.21:35
SpeedEvillcuk: that'd sort it. But that's not really trivial.21:35
mavhcI thought PAD stood for Pin Activated Door, but you don't have a pin21:35
lcukgumstix will be close21:35
crashanddie__mavhc, 90% of banks have the following system: any transaction that's flagged as suspicious (usually way out of the normal amount, different shop or location) gets put in a list. A bunch of people go through the list, in order of size (bigger transactions get priority)21:36
lcukhaving maemo on your phone is good for most practical concerns21:36
SpeedEvillcuk: two orders of magnitude larger.21:36
SpeedEvillcuk: no phone :/21:36
lcukyeah but much much cooler21:36
mavhcyet a phone, then you'll have something worth stealing to make a door lock worthwhile21:36
crashanddie__mavhc, in a country such as the UK, you get about 18000 "flagged" transactions per bank per day (big banks)21:36
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lcukmavhc, your doorlock may be the only thing protecting your patented door lock21:36
EspadaV8oooh, you're in manchester too lcuk21:37
mavhcwe put the lock on the outside? nooooooooooooooooooooo21:37
EspadaV8wait a minute... i have spoken to you before21:37
lcukyeah EspadaV8 which was why i asked21:37
* EspadaV8 shuts up21:37
EspadaV8ah, lol21:37
crashanddie__mavhc, in other words: you're a troll, and you don't understand the system.21:37
EspadaV8i was wondering where that came from21:38
EspadaV8i assumed it was on my site when you mentioned that21:38
lcukit was21:38
lcukbut i had a reason too lol21:38
mavhcthe system is broken and will be replaced, obviously, just a matter of cost/benefit of course21:38
* lcuk isnt any warmer21:38
EspadaV8where abouts? because you don't sound like a manc ;)21:39
* lcuk ignotes the petrol21:39
lcukignites too21:39
crashanddie__mavhc, the system won't be replaced. Banks are only implementing systems that allow them to blame the user21:39
lcukbanks have to be seen as doing something21:39
crashanddie__mavhc, (this is one of the main focuses of PIN. If your PIN is disclosed to a third party, most banks don't *have* to pay back any fraudulent transaction)21:39
mavhcand you can't prove that it wasn't21:40
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EspadaV8from the south, near the airport21:40
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mavhcbut of course the system will be replaced, it won't be the same in 100 years21:40
* lcuk nods21:40
crashanddie__credit cards have been here for over a 100 years21:40
SpeedEvilThere is an enormous amount of inertia21:40
lcukmore code to do21:40
mavhcif they try not paying me back they'll have publicity21:41
crashanddie__mavhc, and they'll sue you for something and you'll go broke or to jail21:42
doc|homemavhc: banks? bad publicity? these days?21:42
mavhcit's ok, I invested all my money in a stash of n900s21:42
doc|homen900 bubble!21:43
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EspadaV8a stash of them?21:43
EspadaV8it's nice, but not 'stashable' nice21:44
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lardmanIf anyone fancies trying the barcode decoder (no lookups atm, but will output data to the screen) there's a lib + binary here:
lardmanN8x0 or N900, whatever you've got21:59
lardmanbut not 77021:59
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RST38hlardman: Trying22:10
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lardmanam just testing some of the basic weblookup stuff to add it back in22:10
lardmanthe db stuff probably doesn't work too well either22:10
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lardmanbut it should decode 1D, datamatrix and QR code barcodes22:11
RST38hFor Tentacled's sake, lardman, change your web directory name to something sensible =)22:11
lardmanand open a webbrowser if they contain an URL22:11
RST38hYou are SCARING people :)22:11
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RST38hWhat should I download?22:12
EspadaV8bugger, just found out about the maemo summit thing22:12
lardmanRST38h: N8x0?22:13
lardmanRST38h: go to diablo, grab the mbarcode binary and the libdmtx library, install the library, and run the binary22:13
RST38hlardman: understood22:13
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* GAN800 stabs Modest to death.22:15
RST38hJust ignore it, use Claws22:15
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* RST38h hopes Conversations guys finally integrate email into Conversations and kill Modest forever22:16
mavhcwhy doesn't anyone like modest?22:16
RST38hmavhc: Unusable piece of crap. Should I go over the bugs or just give you bugzilla ids?22:18
mavhcI only use it to read incomming mail22:18
RST38hthat is enough to suffer from it22:19
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mavhconly does 5 things: flashes upon incomming mail, displays incomming mail, marks it as read if read, uses a bit too much ram to check mail, still flashes if email has been read already elsewhere22:21
zerojayRST38h: I've never once had a problem with it dating back to N800 days. Works perfectly fine for me.22:22
zerojayUntil Claws is anywhere near as integrated into the tablet as Modest, it's a non-starter for me.22:23
GAN800It wants me to enter account details until I kill it with fire if there's even the slightest connection flub.22:24
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zerojayI think I've had that happen.. maybe 3 times in two weeks.22:24
zerojayBut if I'm not using it, it just simply doesn't come up.22:25
GAN800It doesn't even show a useful error. It's just, "Here are your account details."22:25
zerojayYeah, true. That should be fixed.22:25
GAN800It's been there since day 122:25
zerojayIt did that in Maemo 4 also?22:26
zerojayWow... never saw it.22:26
GAN800Lots and lots22:26
GAN800killall modest was usually the first thing in my history.22:26
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GAN800Next to /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart22:27
RST38hGAN: It shows the error but the banner times out22:27
mavhcnever had that with gmail22:27
zerojayStrange. I've never had a problem with modest.. I've only had a problem with metalayer-crawler when I got a 16GB card and fixed it a day later.22:27
RST38hzerojay: you are probably not using it =)22:27
zerojayNever once needed to restart the browser daemon... wtf.22:27
zerojayRST38h: In use for at least 12 hours daily, sorry, try again. :)22:28
zerojayWhy would you need to restart the browser daemon for?22:28
mavhcneed to restart browser if I kill too many browserd processes22:28
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pupnikjust a few things fpr tear22:28
GAN800Daemon crashes and the Updating... banner never goes away.22:28
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zerojayI only had that happen to me once after I had just reflashed. Never again.22:29
GAN800Tear it like browsing the internet in a minefield.22:29
zerojayI tried it once. It crashed left and right for me.22:29
GAN800You never know when you're going to step on one and crash.22:30
zerojayBrowsing speed was better, but ugh.22:30
* RST38h reminds everybody of his "kework browserd: bug tracker22:30
zerojayAnd the lack of integration is a major strike for me.22:30
GAN800At least most of MicroB's bugs don't end in crashes.22:30
zerojayDunno, maybe the reason why I didn't run into a lot of these problems is that I kept my tablets relatively clean.22:31
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zerojayClean meaning not installing a ton of programs, dealing more with the defaults, etc...22:31
mavhcannoying that I can't install apps on the sd card22:31
GAN800I don't. But why else would you own one? ;)22:31
* Jaffa sends Hermes 0.0.3 on its way to the autobuilder22:31
RST38hmavhc: being fixed in fremantle22:31
zerojayJaffa: I had an endless banner loop last night.22:32
RST38hsee /opt discussion22:32
GAN800mavhc, just boot from it.22:32
Jaffazerojay: Indeed. Now fixed by having a proper summary view22:32
zerojayJaffa: Nice. Looking forward to it.22:34
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JaffaWhat you get when you press the button is left as a surprise, though there may be an intermittent bug with showing newly updated photos22:37
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mavhcGAN800: yeah, I'll get around to that, bought a 16GB card22:37
* GAN800 almost wishes he had a Facebook account for that.22:38
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JaffaGAN800: Can use Twitter too22:38
* crashanddie_ nukes twitter and facebook22:38
* jaska hands crashanddie_ more warheads22:39
zerojayMy Twitter and Facebook friends are two completely separate sets of people with almost no overlap whatsoever.22:40
zerojayAnyways, Hermes is going to be really useful to me.22:42
Vulcanistwitter is people you feel like you're stalking22:42
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Vulcanisfacebook is vague aquaintences22:42
mavhcfacebook is for people who don't publish on the internet, who you know22:42
Jaffazerojay: There seem to be some issues showing all the contact photos in the summary view, but - meh - it's 0.0.3 ;-)22:42
mavhctwitter is interactive rss22:42
zerojayJaffa: That's okay. Take your time. :)22:42
Jaffazerojay: I gave up on using OssoAbookContactView and just wrote my own :-)22:43
lcukaww jaffa, sure that will be solved with time22:43
zerojayYeah, I use Facebook for friends, coworkers.. Twitter's for everything else, pretty much.22:43
lcukmaybe spin the heads off as a standalone widget22:43
zerojayJaffa: It's really taht bad?22:43
lcukjaffa, pm me the details22:44
Jaffazerojay: Lack of Python bindings meant playing with ctypes, which wasn't too bad except: a) it introduced a weirdness with showing the pixbufs which didn't exist when used via C; and b) I'd need a similar widget anyway for listing Facebook/Twitter friends for doing the manual mapping22:44
crashanddie_Jaffa, why python?22:45
crashanddie_and also, does your nickname come from the language you use at work?22:45
Jaffacrashanddie_: Don't want to faff with malloc, wanted an excuse to learn more Python, gives me easy way of fiddling with it on the train22:45
lcukjaffa, spin it off deffo, if its one nice chunk that gives ppl a good feeling creating and hacking at22:46
lcukall the better22:46
Jaffacrashanddie_: No, nickname comes from 199422:46
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crashanddie_Jaffa, thought Java :)22:46
Jaffacrashanddie_: indeed :)22:46
crashanddie_Jaffa the hutt?22:46
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lcukJaffa the 10 minutes to nandos my ass22:47
Jaffacrashanddie_: Needed a name for a software brand, drew a nice graduated orange in RISC OS !Draw and decided on Jaffa Software. Then started going online in communities who'd know me from that.22:47
JaffaTime for a cuppa.22:47
crashanddie_btw, guys22:47
crashanddie_I found the Nandos you were at22:47
crashanddie_it's like on my daily route to work22:47
lcukhint: we arent there any more22:47
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crashanddie_funniest thing is, I cycled 20 yards further, and asked a guy "Where's the nearest Nando's?"22:48
glass__nandos is nice22:48
crashanddie_And he said "go over the bridge, take a left, near charing cross"22:48
JaffaX-Fade: Love the icon display on packages22:48
crashanddie_nobody fucking knows that place, it's amazing you found it, it's completely unknown22:48
glass__hmm i suppose thats the same nandos i was at ~2 years ago :p22:49
glass__(during smartphoneshow, some guys i hanged out with for the evening knew the place)22:49
GeneralAntillesJaffa, just need some alternate row colors.22:49
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GeneralAntillesHrm, is Extras-devel down again?22:52
RST38hhas been on and off since yesterday22:52
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lcukif i want a list of photos matching a certain tag.  do i use tracker to get at it?23:02
lcukis there a pre built api to select tags?23:03
lcukor do i list all of them from tracker?23:03
lcukand make my own23:03
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* lcuk is thinking about on device content creation and i realised there is no obvious ui to retrieve that information other than the generic photo viewer23:04
lcukJaffa, if you could bring up the photos tagged with your contact23:06
lcukwhilst you are speaking with them in conversations23:06
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lcukit owuld be a cool widget23:06
SpeedEvilyeah. With certain tags maybe on buttons.23:06
SpeedEvilWork, Play, Blackmail.23:06
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Macerwell. just finished sending out the last of the life insurance stuff23:10
Macerwhat a pain23:10
GeneralAntilleslbt, ping?23:11
lbtGeneralAntilles: hi23:11
GeneralAntilleslbt, how's Shopper for Fremantle coming?23:12
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lbtI've had it working locally but I suspect have too much on to have it ready for the Summit23:12
lbtMer/talks/new job23:13
lbtit looks really nice though ;)23:13
EspadaV8bah, i need a new system :(23:16
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zerojaylbt: Let us know if you need some testing.23:16
lbtthanks :)23:16
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Jaffalbt: screenshots of a Qt app on Fremantle needed ;-)23:42
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lcukMek, giveusascreenieofsomethingfromfremantleofiwillsnorereallyloudly23:43
MekI don't have one available at the moment... my fremantle stuff is on my other laptop :P23:44
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EspadaV8_Lis fremantle the codename for the OS on the N900?23:54
fralsgod that apple exec thread exploded while i was out23:54
javispedrofrals: that tends to happen quite a bit in tmo with "certain" topics23:54
fralsya true23:54
JaffaAnd there's nothing constructive in it.23:55
JaffaI know. I've just endured reading it.23:55
fralslike the myriad of crossposting in the asr/portrait mode threads that died out eventually :p23:55
fralsive read up to page 3, im assuming i dont miss any thing if i skip the last 5 pages ^^23:55
JaffaEspadaV8_L: Yes. Fremantle == Maemo 5. Diablo, Chinook, Bora, Gregale, Scirocco were earlier names23:55
Jaffafrals: Skip it. Trust me.23:55
lbtJaffa: mmm    maybe...23:56
fralsoh appearently the russian guy claims to have a final version of the n900 now23:56
javispedrothe russian guy is ... eldar?23:57
ShadowJKand harmattan is future name23:57
javispedroyet another 30 page topic in tmo then.23:57
JaffaThe Russian guy claims whatever he wants to make himself sound better. His whole treatment of the N900 - including just plain lying about having latest firmware - was pretty shocking23:57
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