| GAN800 | Fine by me. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| Tadthebuilder | well | 00:00 |
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| GAN800 | Ubuntu Moblin is coming together. | 00:00 |
| Tadthebuilder | as long as they dont put that crappy stuff that was on the eee's | 00:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | frals: *open-source* iPhone emu ;P | 00:01 |
| frals | :D | 00:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | ubuntu nbr might be up to the task | 00:01 |
| GAN800 | It's about time people realized that they don't ACTUALLY need Windows. | 00:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | except to play counter strike | 00:01 |
| RST38h | No waaaay | 00:01 |
| RST38h | or WoW | 00:01 |
| GAN800 | Wine | 00:01 |
| RST38h | or Office | 00:01 |
| * qwerty12_N810 needs it | 00:01 | |
| GAN800 | Wine | 00:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | pfft | 00:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | come over here | 00:02 |
| GAN800 | qwerty12 is a luser | 00:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | and get counter strike to run in wine | 00:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | on my computer | 00:02 |
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| Tadthebuilder | at decent speeds | 00:02 |
| range | GAN800: Isn't moblin based on Fedora by now? | 00:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | in wine on linux | 00:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | actually sony ebook reader library | 00:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | where I want it | 00:02 |
| * qwerty12_N810 would respond, but remembers that GAN800 uses OS X. Enough said... | 00:02 | |
| GAN800 | range, there's an Ubuntu release with the UI stuff. | 00:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | I bought some books from there not realizing their drm.... | 00:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | I actually prefer openoffice.org to the newest microsoft office | 00:03 |
| GAN800 | qwerty12, hey, at least it's not Microsoft. :P | 00:03 |
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| RST38h | Hitler: At least it's not Microsoft! | 00:03 |
| Tadthebuilder | I think Apple might be worse than ms | 00:03 |
| frals | this is the part where i say i use office2007 suite by choice? | 00:04 |
| * RST38h laughs satanically | 00:04 | |
| GAN800 | Tadthebuilder, Fictionwise's Mobipocket stuff is pretty easy to convert. | 00:04 |
| Tadthebuilder | yeah I know that | 00:04 |
| Tadthebuilder | but I bought some things directly from sony | 00:04 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GAN800: Apple brought out the iPhone, I can never choose them over MS :p | 00:04 |
| GAN800 | Apple actually contributes to open source. | 00:04 |
| Tadthebuilder | (a Christian Theology text book for a class that I could not find any where else) | 00:04 |
| Tadthebuilder | yes | 00:04 |
| GAN800 | But, yes, their mobile stuff is disturbing. | 00:04 |
| Tadthebuilder | but easy development and adding of applications is better than open source | 00:05 |
| Tadthebuilder | os | 00:05 |
| Tadthebuilder | did I say that outloud? | 00:05 |
| Myrtti | no | 00:05 |
| javispedro | yes, I heared you saying something about liking furry stuff. | 00:05 |
| Tadthebuilder | by that I meant | 00:05 |
| X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: Did you see somebody asked for webkit on fremantle? | 00:05 |
| GAN800 | The whole Apple Computer to Apple thing disturbs me. | 00:05 |
| Tadthebuilder | that I would rather deal with a company that let anyone create software for it even if they never did anything with the open source community | 00:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | X-Fade: Yes, but it's up to Bundyo to get the ball rolling... I just did stuff to make it build on the autobuilder | 00:06 |
| Tadthebuilder | than one that made you go through them to develop software for it | 00:06 |
| javispedro | Tadthebuilder: what are you doing here? go grab windows mobile! | 00:06 |
| X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: Ah. | 00:06 |
| Tadthebuilder | Id much prefer maemo | 00:06 |
| Tadthebuilder | I was refering to windows mobile vs iphone | 00:06 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Windows Mobile. Endorsed by javispedro. | 00:06 |
| Tadthebuilder | if i had to choose | 00:07 |
| * javispedro did call "Windows Mobile" "Winbugs Unmobile" quite a few times. | 00:07 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | How much are they paying you? :p | 00:07 |
| javispedro | I am soooooooooooooooooooo funny. | 00:07 |
| Tadthebuilder | maybe Im not making any sense | 00:07 |
| Tadthebuilder | ... | 00:07 |
| Tadthebuilder | I just hate the fact that the only way apple wants you to install software is through their store | 00:07 |
| Tadthebuilder | thats what I hate | 00:08 |
| * qwerty12_N810 isn't into the open-source-or-die movement himself | 00:08 | |
| Tadthebuilder | well programmers need to eat too | 00:08 |
| Tadthebuilder | I apperciate open source developers | 00:08 |
| Tadthebuilder | but I dont think its immoral to develop closed source | 00:08 |
| javispedro | I would be into the opensource-or-die movement if it could be enforced by law. It won't, so companies enforcing it are at a disadvantage | 00:08 |
| javispedro | (for example, no 3D. or does anyknow how many bricks you need to hit Imagination with in order for them to release free libGLES?) | 00:09 |
| javispedro | or nvidia, for the case. | 00:09 |
| Tadthebuilder | death penalty for creating closed source software would be a little extreme.... | 00:10 |
| javispedro | a few minutes of electric chair would be OK. | 00:11 |
| Tadthebuilder | (note: I really was not trying to be a troll, or get into a fight, I promise) | 00:11 |
| Tadthebuilder | waterboarding | 00:11 |
| * Robot101 got *really* confused because he hit the wrong key and thought this was #collabora... and like... who are all of these people?! | 00:11 | |
| Robot101 | I'm sure we didn't hire this many people... | 00:11 |
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| RST38h | Too late | 00:11 |
| Tadthebuilder | welcome to maemo robot | 00:11 |
| RST38h | Tar. Feathers. | 00:11 |
| Tadthebuilder | what too late? | 00:11 |
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| * javispedro wastes time http://depot.javispedro.com/stupidity.png | 00:12 | |
| Tadthebuilder | interesting | 00:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Sexy | 00:12 |
| RST38h | javis: running on armel qemu? =) | 00:13 |
| javispedro | nope, x86, sw rendering, and even that was hard enough already. | 00:13 |
| javispedro | someone forgot to remember heaps are execution protected..... | 00:13 |
| javispedro | (basically, a waste of time :P) | 00:14 |
| RST38h | are they? | 00:14 |
| javispedro | RST38h: at least on amd64. | 00:14 |
| RST38h | works fine in WinXP on Intel | 00:14 |
| javispedro | and probably any x86 with PAE kernel. | 00:14 |
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| RST38h | NX feature is separate from PAE | 00:14 |
| javispedro | ah well. | 00:15 |
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| javispedro | even then, I think Windows only enables it in the PAE kernel for unknown reasons. | 00:16 |
| RST38h | protection against evil hackers (tm)? | 00:17 |
| * Robot101 would be interested in q/wg 335 | 00:17 | |
| * Robot101 fails at irssi again | 00:17 | |
| javispedro | RST38h: yes, but I mean why in PAE kernel only. | 00:17 |
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| RST38h | who knows...who cares...sleep! | 00:18 |
| javispedro | good advice. | 00:19 |
| Tadthebuilder | does anyone know what the cortex-a9 power usage would compare to a similar speed atom? | 00:19 |
| javispedro | Texas Instruments knows. | 00:19 |
| Tadthebuilder | but they are not speaking | 00:20 |
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| Tadthebuilder | the touchbook 2.0 | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | The answer is "depends" :) | 00:20 |
| Tadthebuilder | oh okay | 00:20 |
| Tadthebuilder | im going to pretend likes thats a full answera | 00:20 |
| Tadthebuilder | and not ask a follow up question | 00:21 |
| Tadthebuilder | because I probably would not understand the answer anyway | 00:21 |
| ShadowJK | power use is complicated | 00:21 |
| ShadowJK | hardware isn't the entire story | 00:21 |
| Tadthebuilder | okay makes sense | 00:21 |
| ShadowJK | And there are different things you use the system for | 00:21 |
| Tadthebuilder | so its also the systems interaction with the processor | 00:22 |
| Tadthebuilder | aka the software has to be good? | 00:22 |
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| Tadthebuilder | depends on usag | 00:23 |
| Tadthebuilder | e | 00:23 |
| ShadowJK | For example, the beagleboard uses the same (nearly) chip as N900, but people typically use a fairly "normal" linux kernel and fairly "normal" distribution environment on top. This results in a "standby" batterylife of a few hours if you'd power it by the same battery as N900. And that is without wifi, bluetooth or 3G radios | 00:23 |
| Tadthebuilder | etc | 00:23 |
| Tadthebuilder | ah | 00:23 |
| Tadthebuilder | but maemo | 00:23 |
| Tadthebuilder | is coded | 00:23 |
| Tadthebuilder | so as to take advantage of the lower power | 00:23 |
| ShadowJK | But the same chip in the N900, with the power-optimized linux kernel that Nokia uses, and the power optimized maemo distribution on top, would achieve days of standby time | 00:23 |
| Tadthebuilder | and bah okay | 00:24 |
| Tadthebuilder | ah not bah | 00:24 |
| ShadowJK | That's more than factor 10 difference | 00:24 |
| ShadowJK | I don't belive that Atom can go that low | 00:24 |
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| Tadthebuilder | makes sense | 00:26 |
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| ShadowJK | From a user's point of view, huge standby times completely transform the user experience. Your device is always ready to instantly react to what you want to do. No need to boot it up. The minute or two it takes to switch on a laptop is a big threshold, but you don't realize it's there until you've used a device that's always ready. | 00:27 |
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| ShadowJK | Once you experience computer-liek performance that's always ready for you, you probably wouldn't even notice if, for example, battery life with Atom in active use was 5 hours and battery life with Arm in active use was 3 hours | 00:27 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, can you call my mobile? I lost my phone | 00:27 |
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| ShadowJK | I'm not saying that Arm would get less battery life in active use than Atom | 00:27 |
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| ShadowJK | I suspect Arm would beat Atom | 00:28 |
| ShadowJK | I'm just saying it "depends" :) | 00:28 |
| ShadowJK | I believe always-on is one of those things that transform the way we use and think about our devices | 00:28 |
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| ShadowJK | But even with Arm being capable of this, it's not enough to just use Arm, as evident by how most people use beagleboard :) | 00:29 |
| crashanddie | can anyone please call my phone? Kind of an emergency here? Anyone in the UK willing to place a call? | 00:30 |
| ShadowJK | Do you expect to hear it ring, or do you expect someone else has it? | 00:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: place your number in a phonebox near you | 00:31 |
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| mavhc | a phonebox? | 00:31 |
| crashanddie | ShadowJK, dunno, any answer would be good. No-one answering means I forgot it at the office and means I'm stuffed, no answer could also mean I lost if on my way back home | 00:32 |
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| crashanddie | but I used it to give someone directions, so I didn't forget it at the office | 00:32 |
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| MrGoose1 | n900? | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | in that case I suspect it'd be best if someone without furriner accent tried calling :) | 00:33 |
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| Tadthebuilder | i need more ram | 00:38 |
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| luke-jr_ | me too | 00:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | my computer just crashed | 00:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | locked up | 00:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I still want a network sync for FBReader. | 00:42 |
| coldboot | What's an accurate way to time functions in microsecond precision on the n810? | 00:42 |
| coldboot | It seems std::clock() is inaccurate. | 00:42 |
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| Tadthebuilder | lcuk: you in here still? | 00:47 |
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| Firebird | coldboot, you could use ftime: http://www.meangene.com/notes/time.html | 00:47 |
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| crashanddie | ShadowJK, thanks anyway, found the phone | 00:48 |
| ShadowJK | Where was it? | 00:49 |
| wiretapped | GeneralAntilles: if you want network sync for ____, look at cron+rsync | 00:54 |
| coldboot | Firebird: Are you sure that works on the n810? Because clock() is completely useless. | 00:54 |
| coldboot | Firebird: I don't think that will work. | 00:55 |
| GAN800 | wiretapped, I was thinking of just adding rsync to the .desktop. | 00:56 |
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| Firebird | coldboot, have you tried gettimeofday() ? | 00:59 |
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| Firebird | coldboot, look at post 3 for an example: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/588307/c-obtaining-milliseconds-time-on-linux-clock-doesnt-seem-to-work-properly | 01:00 |
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| coldboot | Firebird: Ah, thanks. | 01:02 |
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| coldboot | CPU time, very important difference. | 01:02 |
| coldboot | I'm measuring IO time. | 01:02 |
| Firebird | ah | 01:03 |
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| Tadthebuilder | any one used andrewfbacks freemantle theme for diablo? | 01:14 |
| Tadthebuilder | its awesome | 01:14 |
| coldboot | I mean most of my time is spent on IO. | 01:14 |
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| lardman | re | 01:41 |
| lardman | anyone happen to know which lib I must link against to get gdk_x11_drawable_get_xid()? | 01:44 |
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| Mousey | ldd? | 01:48 |
| Mousey | oh, nm | 01:48 |
| * Mousey butts out | 01:48 | |
| lardman | np | 01:49 |
| lardman | just that the Fremantle SDK doens't recognise it, while the Diablo one does | 01:49 |
| lardman | 'tiss in here thoough: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/Camera_API_Usage | 01:50 |
| lardman | well GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW which is define#'d as above | 01:51 |
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| lardman | I add, in the standard 8 lines, my output: ;) | 01:53 |
| lardman | gcc `pkg-config --libs gconf-2.0 hildon-1 hildon-fm-2 gtk+-2.0 libosso gdk-2.0 gconf-2.0 gnome-vfs-2.0 gstreamer-0.10 sqlite3 conic glib-2.0` -lgstinterfaces-0.10 -ldmtx -lpthread `curl-config --libs` batoo.o lists.o camera.o gui.o web.o maemo-barcode.o bch15_5.o binarize.o image.o isaac.o qrdec.o qrdectxt.o rs.o util.o -o mbarcode | 01:54 |
| lardman | camera.o: In function `expose_cb': | 01:54 |
| lardman | camera.c:(.text+0x95c): undefined reference to `GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW' | 01:54 |
| lardman | gui.o: In function `scan_button_pressed': | 01:54 |
| lardman | gui.c:(.text+0xfd0): undefined reference to `GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW' | 01:54 |
| lardman | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status | 01:54 |
| lardman | make: *** [mbarcode] Error 1 | 01:54 |
| lardman | any thoughts appreciated | 01:54 |
| javispedro | lardman: try #including <gdk/gdkx.h> | 01:55 |
| lardman | javispedro: it's a linker error though | 02:00 |
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| javispedro | lardman: but GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW is a macro. | 02:00 |
| lardman | yeah | 02:00 |
| javispedro | you're missing the definition, | 02:00 |
| javispedro | thus the compiler thinks you're trying to invoke an extern function. | 02:00 |
| lardman | ah, ok | 02:00 |
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| lardman | nope, still broken, same error | 02:01 |
| lardman | hmm hang on | 02:01 |
| lardman | ok fixed, thanks | 02:03 |
| lardman | and thanks qwerty12_N810 who suggested it earlier too ;) | 02:03 |
| javispedro | heh :D | 02:03 |
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| lardman | :) | 02:05 |
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| pupnik_ | tear with three tabs was giving me bogdowns and swap. so i disabled scripting, extensions, image loading, full zooming | 02:48 |
| pupnik_ | and now it is like the web should be! | 02:49 |
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| GAN800 | lol | 02:49 |
| pupnik_ | text and hyperlinks :@ | 02:49 |
| pupnik_ | sssuperfast | 02:49 |
| GAN800 | Minus images and scripting. :P | 02:49 |
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| pupnik_ | righzt | 02:49 |
| pupnik_ | i need two browsers | 02:49 |
| pupnik_ | one w/9o | 02:50 |
| pupnik_ | w/o fluff | 02:50 |
| ShadowJK | tear is fast as long as you limit yourself to one tab :) | 02:50 |
| ShadowJK | /window | 02:50 |
| pupnik_ | need multiple pages | 02:50 |
| pupnik_ | it is my memory cache | 02:50 |
| pupnik_ | now how to make xchat launch tear? | 02:51 |
| ShadowJK | mine too | 02:51 |
| pupnik_ | with proper invocation? | 02:51 |
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| pupnik_ | hmm "tear" seems to work | 02:52 |
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| pupnik_ | is there a more lightweight terminal? osso-xterm takes 4.2MB in htop | 03:05 |
| pupnik_ | with 2 windows | 03:05 |
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| pupnik_ | i had x running on 12MB systems... | 03:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | '4' | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Or was that 3 | 03:07 |
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| AStorm | pupnik_: urxvt | 03:09 |
| AStorm | pupnik_: esp. urxvtd/urxvtc | 03:09 |
| lardman | ~lart Humax for making H | 03:09 |
| * infobot takes out Humax with the trash for making H | 03:09 | |
| lardman | in fact for making crappy hard disk recorders which don;t work | 03:09 |
| pupnik_ | astorm - it works on tablet?? | 03:10 |
| AStorm | why wouldn't it? | 03:10 |
| AStorm | it has no special keys though | 03:10 |
| AStorm | you mean, the 'key' bar | 03:11 |
| AStorm | *you know | 03:11 |
| AStorm | it's not hildonized, but it doesn't matter | 03:11 |
| pupnik_ | /media/mmc2/fun # apt-cache search urxvt | 03:11 |
| AStorm | it has no menu anyway | 03:11 |
| pupnik_ | ... | 03:11 |
| AStorm | pupnik_: rxvt-unicode | 03:11 |
| pupnik_ | what repo? | 03:12 |
| AStorm | no idea | 03:12 |
| AStorm | I haven't tried it on maemo | 03:12 |
| AStorm | only on mer | 03:12 |
| pupnik_ | k | 03:12 |
| AStorm | ask someone to build it | 03:12 |
| AStorm | (but make sure they include truetype/xft support) | 03:12 |
| AStorm | (and maybe unicode3 for the chinese ;p ) | 03:12 |
| pupnik_ | nothing was found for "rxvt-unicode" in OS 2008 | 03:14 |
| pupnik_ | on gronmayer | 03:14 |
| AStorm | so you get to build it ;p | 03:14 |
| AStorm | maybe rxvt | 03:14 |
| AStorm | but that will likely be the one w/o unicode | 03:14 |
| AStorm | so less useful | 03:14 |
| AStorm | lxde terminal is light too | 03:16 |
| AStorm | might be available | 03:16 |
| AStorm | but urxvt is lighter and more full-featured | 03:16 |
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| pupnik_ | roxterm... | 03:20 |
| AStorm | nah, roxterm is weak | 03:20 |
| lardman | night all | 03:20 |
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| pupnik_ | heh roxterm says 5.1 MB in htop | 03:23 |
| pupnik_ | i mean % | 03:23 |
| pupnik_ | bleh | 03:24 |
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| AStorm | pupnik_: ... told you | 03:24 |
| AStorm | lxterminal | 03:24 |
| AStorm | check it | 03:24 |
| AStorm | and grab rxvt-unicode from debian or ubuntu armel | 03:25 |
| AStorm | for a test | 03:25 |
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| pupnik_ | i always use urxvt on linux pc | 03:26 |
| AStorm | good choice. | 03:26 |
| woglinde | konsole | 03:27 |
| AStorm | lol | 03:27 |
| AStorm | can't go any heavier than that | 03:27 |
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| woglinde | he I dont use kwin | 03:28 |
| woglinde | so I can use something bigger as terminal | 03:28 |
| AStorm | even less of a reason to use konsole | 03:28 |
| * AStorm can't find the logic in that | 03:28 | |
| MaceN8x0 | what is it about cop shows that they always have to add tire screeching noises? | 03:28 |
| AStorm | MaceN8x0: it's "kewl" | 03:29 |
| AStorm | also, I can make tire noises with my car on demand | 03:29 |
| AStorm | ;P | 03:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 03:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | but the car slowly pulled into a parking spot | 03:29 |
| AStorm | pupnik_: recommended resources: metaSendsEscape, font: xft:Sans:size=14, scrollBar: false | 03:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | screeching in a situation that was like | 03:30 |
| AStorm | scrollTtyOutput: false | 03:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | no | 03:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 03:30 |
| pupnik_ | ty astorm | 03:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | anyways... have to go | 03:31 |
| AStorm | pupnik_: and scrollWithBuffer: false | 03:31 |
| pupnik_ | is xft builtin now? | 03:31 |
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| pupnik_ | oh that is new to me | 03:31 |
| AStorm | pupnik_: it is optional | 03:31 |
| AStorm | but is light still :) | 03:31 |
| AStorm | pupnik_: color set is slightly different from xterm's by default | 03:34 |
| AStorm | but that's easily tunable | 03:34 |
| pupnik_ | terrible colors | 03:34 |
| pupnik_ | what do zou use | 03:34 |
| AStorm | yeah, too light. | 03:35 |
| AStorm | hmm, on the new machine? | 03:35 |
| AStorm | nothing yet ;p | 03:35 |
| AStorm | I have to fix those | 03:35 |
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| AStorm | pupnik_: try those "Tango theme" like colors | 03:35 |
| AStorm | http://paste.lisp.org/display/59026 | 03:35 |
| pupnik_ | k | 03:36 |
| pupnik_ | lacking butter for caramel, i made popcorn with melted nutella just now | 03:36 |
| AStorm | hm, sounds tasty and... fattening | 03:37 |
| pupnik_ | feeling a bit woozy from the sugar, tbh | 03:37 |
| pupnik_ | what u got in the fridge? | 03:37 |
| * SpeedEvil has a concoction made from two cans of peaches, and a tub of natural yogurt. | 03:38 | |
| pupnik_ | me, tomato paste, jelly, nutella, some too-old joghurt | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Topped with some nice biscuits. Yummy. | 03:38 |
| pupnik_ | mmm | 03:38 |
| pupnik_ | nice | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Also solder paste. | 03:38 |
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| Robot101 | hrm, good | 03:38 |
| Robot101 | *food | 03:38 |
| pupnik_ | walnuts are ripe here | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is probably not so yummy. | 03:39 |
| * Robot101 missed the window of opportunity for pizza ordering | 03:39 | |
| AStorm | doesn't matter :) | 03:39 |
| SpeedEvil | (though I haven't tried, it could be ambrosia) | 03:39 |
| Robot101 | :( | 03:39 |
| AStorm | some whole grain buns | 03:39 |
| AStorm | butter, some kind of meat | 03:39 |
| AStorm | (in slices) | 03:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Couple of weeks since I last shopped, the fridge is moderately empty | 03:39 |
| AStorm | fresh tomato, pickled beet ;p | 03:40 |
| AStorm | (coarse grated) | 03:40 |
| AStorm | mid-quality vodka, mineral water | 03:40 |
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| AStorm | 12% cream | 03:41 |
| AStorm | hmmm, more? | 03:41 |
| AStorm | ;p | 03:41 |
| AStorm | pupnik_: those tango colors are fake ;p | 03:41 |
| AStorm | pupnik_: try these: http://yorik.orgfree.com/linuxstuff.html | 03:41 |
| AStorm | (lower down the page) | 03:41 |
| GAN800 | Robot101, can we be more descriptive in which service are supported in the Telepathy plugin pretty names? | 03:42 |
| Robot101 | GAN800: how do you mean? | 03:43 |
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| Robot101 | oh right, in the package manager? | 03:43 |
| GAN800 | Yeah | 03:44 |
| Robot101 | there should be one package which pulls them all in | 03:44 |
| Robot101 | rtcomm-extras? or telepathy-extras? | 03:44 |
| GAN800 | Maybe the short description, actually | 03:44 |
| AStorm | lolwut | 03:44 |
| AStorm | these are the dark variant ;p | 03:44 |
| GAN800 | Because who the hell knows what haze/idle/salut mean. :D | 03:44 |
| Robot101 | but yeah, feel free to drop a mail to jonnny.lamb@collabora.co.uk and suggest tweaks | 03:44 |
| Robot101 | a fair point | 03:44 |
| Robot101 | :D | 03:44 |
| GAN800 | OK, will do | 03:45 |
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| AStorm | pupnik_: this is a good resource: http://tuxtraining.com/2009/06/27/terminal-color-schemes-for-xdefaults-or-xresources-file | 03:45 |
| GAN800 | Considering our new more mass market audience. ;) | 03:45 |
| Robot101 | GAN800: right | 03:45 |
| Robot101 | GAN800: maybe we should make some videos of how to set them up? | 03:45 |
| pupnik_ | 8 tear windows open and running fine :) | 03:45 |
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| GAN800 | Since probably 90% of them will install first thing. | 03:46 |
| GAN800 | Videos sound excellent. | 03:46 |
| Robot101 | yeah Peter suggested it to me, but I forgot until now | 03:46 |
| GAN800 | Although it's beautifully easy once you know which package you need. | 03:47 |
| Robot101 | yup, can be a nice short video :D | 03:47 |
| Robot101 | we're trying to make MSN video calling work too | 03:47 |
| Robot101 | a bit of a faff | 03:47 |
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| Robot101 | but it should be possible | 03:47 |
| Robot101 | drop in the extra farsight plugin | 03:47 |
| GAN800 | Just too bad they can't be in there by default. :( | 03:48 |
| Robot101 | that kind of thing might get easier for Maemo as the public profile is higher | 03:48 |
| GAN800 | True | 03:48 |
| * Robot101 knows that such business development can be hard and make little sense... :D | 03:49 | |
| GAN800 | Get enough free lawyers to handle the negotiations. ;) | 03:49 |
| Robot101 | our lawyers are so totally not free | 03:49 |
| Robot101 | :D | 03:49 |
| GAN800 | Hehe | 03:49 |
| GAN800 | *available | 03:49 |
| Robot101 | I need to add up our legal fees and compare to lawyers salary | 03:49 |
| GAN800 | I absolutely love what they did with the user manual | 03:50 |
| Robot101 | I wonder when we need to get a general attorney... | 03:50 |
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| GAN800 | Aparently Maemo has DRM. ;) | 03:50 |
| Robot101 | o rly? :P | 03:50 |
| GAN800 | s/Ap/App/ | 03:50 |
| infobot | GAN800 meant: Apparently Maemo has DRM. ;) | 03:50 |
| * Robot101 smacks infobot | 03:50 | |
| GAN800 | According to the legal boilerplate in the manual, anyway. :roll: | 03:51 |
| AStorm | pupnik_: of note, theme 3 looks like default xterm | 03:52 |
| GAN800 | I filed a bunch of bugs on the manual this morning. Hoping to see something productive come of ot. | 03:52 |
| GAN800 | s/ot/out of it | 03:53 |
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| vladovg | hi | 03:53 |
| GAN800 | Howdy | 03:54 |
| AStorm | GAN800: you mean WinMedia DRM support, then yes, it has | 03:55 |
| AStorm | well protected too ;p | 03:55 |
| Tadthebuilder | were most of the bugs on the manual grammer related? | 03:55 |
| GAN800 | Yes | 03:55 |
| GAN800 | Finglish | 03:55 |
| Tadthebuilder | grammar* | 03:56 |
| Tadthebuilder | heh, It was quite humurous | 03:56 |
| vladovg | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/diablo/install/lightmediascanner0-plugins.install | 03:56 |
| Tadthebuilder | I wonder if they have already been printed like that though | 03:56 |
| vladovg | some one | 03:56 |
| vladovg | kane trai this | 03:56 |
| GAN800 | The 'About Maemo software' section was my favorite | 03:56 |
| vladovg | traig to install | 03:56 |
| vladovg | and it sais missing packige | 03:56 |
| GAN800 | Tadthebuilder, almost certainly | 03:57 |
| Tadthebuilder | heh | 03:57 |
| Tadthebuilder | thats funny | 03:57 |
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| Tadthebuilder | what package were you missing? | 03:57 |
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| vladovg | all | 03:58 |
| Tadthebuilder | um? | 03:58 |
| Tadthebuilder | like did it list things specifically? | 03:58 |
| vladovg | it sais theht the hole packig is missing | 03:58 |
| vladovg | lightmediascanner0-plugins | 03:58 |
| Tadthebuilder | try adding it through the application manager | 03:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | once you enable extra-devel | 03:59 |
| vladovg | giv a direckt linc to the installitin packige | 03:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | I just installed it | 03:59 |
| vladovg | its eneibaled | 03:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | cause I did not have it | 03:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | setting application manager | 03:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | installable applications | 03:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | then click search | 03:59 |
| Tadthebuilder | type in light | 04:00 |
| Tadthebuilder | and try it from there | 04:00 |
| vladovg | alredi trai this | 04:00 |
| vladovg | apt-get install | 04:00 |
| vladovg | and everiting | 04:00 |
| Tadthebuilder | and it says it doesnt exist? | 04:00 |
| Tadthebuilder | not that you arent missing other packages | 04:00 |
| Tadthebuilder | but that that specific package is missing? | 04:01 |
| vladovg | apt sais it is som dependence | 04:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | okay | 04:01 |
| vladovg | and the menager seis it missing | 04:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | so your missing a dependency | 04:01 |
| vladovg | from server | 04:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | i think | 04:01 |
| Tadthebuilder | any ideas anyone? | 04:01 |
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| Tadthebuilder | can you paste or type into this what you got from the command line | 04:02 |
| Tadthebuilder | when trying apt-get? | 04:02 |
| vladovg | ok | 04:02 |
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| Vladoo | /home/user # apt-get install lightmediascanner0-plugins | 04:04 |
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| Vladoo | Depends: lightmediascanner0-ogg (= 0.3.0-maemo2) but it is not going to be installed | 04:05 |
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| Tadthebuilder | im actually at a loss | 04:05 |
| Tadthebuilder | lets see if any one can help | 04:05 |
| Tadthebuilder | I know some of you are lurking | 04:05 |
| Tadthebuilder | anyone know what the problem is? | 04:06 |
| Tadthebuilder | Gan800: any idea what the problem may be? | 04:06 |
| vladovg | BusyBox v1.6.1 (2008-09-18 09:43:17 EEST) Built-in shell (ash) | 04:08 |
| vladovg | Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands. | 04:08 |
| vladovg | Reading package lists... Done | 04:08 |
| vladovg | Building dependency tree | 04:08 |
| vladovg | Reading state information... Done | 04:08 |
| vladovg | Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have | 04:08 |
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| vladovg | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/diablo/install/lightmediascanner0-plugins.install | 04:09 |
| Tadthebuilder | im not really sure | 04:10 |
| vladovg | can some one traing to install and see if its worc | 04:10 |
| Tadthebuilder | maybe it you wait around a bit a guy smarter than me will be able to help | 04:10 |
| vladovg | ot its my problem | 04:10 |
| vladovg | thancks for traing | 04:11 |
| vladovg | :) | 04:11 |
| vladovg | to help | 04:11 |
| Tadthebuilder | your welcome | 04:12 |
| Tadthebuilder | It installed on mine though | 04:12 |
| Tadthebuilder | I just did it | 04:12 |
| Tadthebuilder | n800 | 04:12 |
| vladovg | ok | 04:12 |
| vladovg | thanks again | 04:12 |
| vladovg | so its problem on my device | 04:13 |
| vladovg | gona trai with force | 04:13 |
| vladovg | wath is the rigt command | 04:14 |
| vladovg | apt-get install -f | 04:15 |
| vladovg | ? | 04:15 |
| Tadthebuilder | i dont know | 04:15 |
| Tadthebuilder | try googleing it hah | 04:15 |
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| vladovg | evriting is beckos use ave canola clinup | 04:20 |
| vladovg | after thet onli a problems | 04:20 |
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| Tadthebuilder | sorry | 04:24 |
| Tadthebuilder | can you trying saying that again? | 04:24 |
| vladovg | bad english sorri | 04:26 |
| Tadthebuilder | its okay | 04:26 |
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| Tadthebuilder | i do have canola installed if that is what you were trying to say | 04:29 |
| vladovg | my tu | 04:30 |
| vladovg | but it did not playing | 04:30 |
| vladovg | music or video | 04:30 |
| vladovg | onli images | 04:30 |
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| Tadthebuilder | you never got it to paly mp3 | 04:34 |
| vladovg | no | 04:34 |
| vladovg | it worsk well | 04:34 |
| vladovg | until todai | 04:34 |
| vladovg | ay sorr a new version rc2 | 04:35 |
| vladovg | and wont to install | 04:35 |
| vladovg | traiet and it sai thet is a conflickt | 04:35 |
| vladovg | remove the old | 04:36 |
| vladovg | and again | 04:36 |
| vladovg | the same error | 04:36 |
| vladovg | then install canola-clenup | 04:36 |
| vladovg | and now | 04:36 |
| vladovg | :) | 04:36 |
| vladovg | problems | 04:36 |
| Tadthebuilder | ah | 04:36 |
| Tadthebuilder | okay it was a problem with an update | 04:36 |
| vladovg | update is not a gud think | 04:37 |
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| vladovg | evri ting thrt it worck shaud let worc | 04:37 |
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| vladovg | everi update ay made is coasing onli trobles | 04:37 |
| vladovg | no mera lath traing to update | 04:37 |
| Tadthebuilder | I updated | 04:38 |
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| Tadthebuilder | earlier today too | 04:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | but I have no ran the program till now | 04:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | and its working fine | 04:38 |
| vladovg | lucki | 04:38 |
| vladovg | :) | 04:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | does canola come in different languangeS? | 04:38 |
| vladovg | no ay thinc | 04:38 |
| vladovg | aaa | 04:39 |
| vladovg | gething nervis | 04:39 |
| vladovg | and du not wont to flash the device | 04:39 |
| vladovg | hava a lot ov apps | 04:39 |
| vladovg | and set ups | 04:39 |
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| vladovg | hav to giv up | 04:41 |
| vladovg | :( | 04:41 |
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| Tadthebuilder | come in on a week night | 04:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | next week | 04:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | and see if when more people are here | 04:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | its Friday night Eastern Time | 04:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | more people are on on week nights it seem | 04:42 |
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| Tadthebuilder | s | 04:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | get help from more knowledgable people | 04:42 |
| vladovg | thancs | 04:44 |
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| code177 | Hello | 04:46 |
| vladovg | hi | 04:47 |
| code177 | how's it going | 04:47 |
| vladovg | not so good | 04:48 |
| code177 | what's up? | 04:48 |
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| vladovg | tablet trobels | 04:50 |
| vladovg | :) | 04:50 |
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| code177 | ah | 04:50 |
| code177 | i'm sorry to hear that | 04:50 |
| Tadthebuilder | he is having issues with ogg support and canola | 04:51 |
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| vladovg | let say all support | 04:54 |
| vladovg | audio | 04:54 |
| vladovg | and video | 04:54 |
| vladovg | wont play | 04:54 |
| code177 | =/ | 04:54 |
| code177 | =/ | 04:54 |
| code177 | oops | 04:54 |
| code177 | I'd offer some advice, but I don't have any | 04:54 |
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| Firebird | vladovg, do you have mplayer installed? | 05:00 |
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| vladovg | yes | 05:03 |
| vladovg | and ay have uninstaled | 05:03 |
| vladovg | another qeston | 05:05 |
| vladovg | have a beckup | 05:05 |
| vladovg | from last wick | 05:05 |
| vladovg | after flashing the device | 05:05 |
| vladovg | did this backup restor my apps | 05:05 |
| vladovg | or onli the PIM data | 05:06 |
| vladovg | mining the shiped backup program | 05:06 |
| zerojay | code177: Hi. | 05:07 |
| code177 | hey zero | 05:08 |
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| Tadthebuilder | well | 05:09 |
| Tadthebuilder | vladodvg | 05:09 |
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| Tadthebuilder | if you write a listo f your apps that is not hard to replace | 05:09 |
| Tadthebuilder | should not take more than an hour or so | 05:09 |
| yobo | watching Surrogates on my tablet. movie is kna 5/10 | 05:09 |
| Tadthebuilder | (which might be less time then it takes to fix it) | 05:10 |
| vladovg | a lot ow apps | 05:10 |
| zerojay | Robot101, wjt: Seems that occasionally haze goes haywire to the point where everything disconnects extremely often and I have to reboot to get back to being solid again. | 05:10 |
| Tadthebuilder | aparently someone else is having the problem | 05:10 |
| vladovg | last time it tucks mor then a 5 hours | 05:11 |
| Tadthebuilder | are you st5150 on tmo? | 05:11 |
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| vladovg | so the backup dont handel the apps | 05:12 |
| vladovg | ? | 05:13 |
| Tadthebuilder | not | 05:13 |
| Tadthebuilder | sure | 05:13 |
| Tadthebuilder | I dont ever back anything up... | 05:13 |
| Tadthebuilder | I should but I dont. | 05:13 |
| Tadthebuilder | for some reason I do not think it does though | 05:13 |
| zerojay | Backup should get a list of all the apps on your phone and reinstall them after backup restoration. | 05:14 |
| vladovg | shuar | 05:14 |
| vladovg | ? | 05:15 |
| zerojay | Uh.. yeah. | 05:15 |
| vladovg | thancs | 05:15 |
| vladovg | :) | 05:15 |
| Tadthebuilder | wow | 05:15 |
| Tadthebuilder | why dont I use back up then... | 05:15 |
| Tadthebuilder | i thought it only stored the data not the apps | 05:15 |
| vladovg | thomorol is the day | 05:16 |
| vladovg | :) | 05:16 |
| vladovg | thancs everilan for help | 05:16 |
| zerojay | It stores the data.. but it saves a list of your apps and repos so that you can easily reinstall. | 05:17 |
| zerojay | You guys probably weren't around for the dark ages. lol | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Except it wont automatically reenable Extras. :roll: | 05:17 |
| vladovg | good hight | 05:18 |
| Tadthebuilder | I dont believe a time existed without computers | 05:18 |
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| Tadthebuilder | or without the internet tablets | 05:19 |
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| Tadthebuilder | 15 days till my wedding and my fiancee is finally going crazy from stress | 05:28 |
| Tadthebuilder | Im suprised she made it this long :) | 05:28 |
| SpeedEvil | chloroform. | 05:34 |
| zerojay | Don't worry. | 05:35 |
| zerojay | 15 days afterwards, she'll realize what a mistake this whole marriage thing was. lol | 05:36 |
| Tadthebuilder | ouch | 05:37 |
| Tadthebuilder | chloroform isnt going to work | 05:37 |
| Tadthebuilder | im five hours away from her | 05:37 |
| zerojay | Why? | 05:37 |
| Tadthebuilder | We met at college, both just graduated (well me finishing up residential masters work) and the wedding is near where we went to school, she is living with her parents | 05:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | I got a job a ways a way | 05:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | but the wedding is down there | 05:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | she will be moving down here after the wedding | 05:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | we are a bit old fashioned too. | 05:38 |
| Tadthebuilder | It might help you to know that Im a Pastor... | 05:39 |
| Tadthebuilder | so | 05:39 |
| Tadthebuilder | slightly different | 05:39 |
| zerojay | Yeah, I know.. So you haven't lived together or anything? | 05:40 |
| Tadthebuilder | nope | 05:41 |
| Tadthebuilder | never had sex either | 05:41 |
| Tadthebuilder | (not that you asked that haha) | 05:41 |
| zerojay | Let's put the sex thing aside a moment. | 05:41 |
| zerojay | It's hard to find people we're compatible with. | 05:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | definitly agreed. | 05:42 |
| zerojay | Have you two at least been in the same place with each other for... oh... say... a week? | 05:42 |
| zerojay | Straight. | 05:42 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=lust&mrt=loc&sll=25.172109,-107.479517&sspn=5.367559,6.097412&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Lust,+39446+Sta%C3%9Ffurt,+Salzlandkreis,+Saxony-Anhalt,+Germany&z=16 | 05:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | if you count a dorm ten feet away...where we spent every moment not sleeping or in class together | 05:42 |
| Tadthebuilder | then much longer than that | 05:43 |
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| zerojay | It's easy to be together and all happy and all that... question is how things will be at their worst. | 05:45 |
| Tadthebuilder | oh agreed. I have no belief that it will be easy. Marriage is not easy. Love is something that must be cultivated and maintained | 05:45 |
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| zerojay | Anyways, I'm not trying to keep you from doing it or anything like that. I hope it works out for you as it has for me. | 05:45 |
| Tadthebuilder | haha | 05:46 |
| Tadthebuilder | thanks | 05:46 |
| Tadthebuilder | no no I appreciate any advice and thoughts | 05:46 |
| Tadthebuilder | and I also appreciate any one showing concern | 05:46 |
| zerojay | I just know too many people that jumped into marriage.. you know... "love is forever" and all that and then suddenly they're at each other's throats within a few months. | 05:47 |
| Tadthebuilder | as do I | 05:47 |
| Tadthebuilder | I completely understand where you are coming from | 05:48 |
| Tadthebuilder | I believe that love, when it comes down to it is a choice and a commitment not a feeling | 05:48 |
| Tadthebuilder | the feeling may be there but the commitment has to last past that feeling | 05:48 |
| Tadthebuilder | the butterflies may come and a go but the choice of a sacrificial love must be maintained | 05:49 |
| zerojay | Think it's been six years for me so far. | 05:49 |
| Tadthebuilder | ive been with this girl for four | 05:50 |
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| zerojay | About 10 years for me total. | 05:50 |
| Tadthebuilder | ah | 05:51 |
| Tadthebuilder | if you dont mind me asking, do you have an children? | 05:51 |
| zerojay | 9 year old boy together. | 05:51 |
| zerojay | 30 years old. | 05:52 |
| Tadthebuilder | okay well thats definitly cool | 05:52 |
| Tadthebuilder | I really like children | 05:52 |
| Tadthebuilder | so im really looking forward to that in the future | 05:52 |
| Tadthebuilder | (I know thats kinda strange coming for a 23 year old guy, most are not looking forward to fatherhood) | 05:53 |
| zerojay | Yeah and mine has been so much fun from the start. I pretty much ruined my knees crawling around on the floor with him when he was doing the same. lol | 05:53 |
| Tadthebuilder | haha | 05:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | I work with children alot | 05:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | (im a specialized Pastor in your and children) | 05:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | and it is so sad to me to see the ones who dont have parents that care about them | 05:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | and things like that | 05:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | it makes me really sad | 05:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | Always glad to hear when someones willing to crawl around with their kid :) | 05:54 |
| Tadthebuilder | youth and children that is supposed to read | 05:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Seriously, who is DDoSing http://maemo.org? | 06:36 |
| fnordianslip | works for me | 06:38 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, you just got it DDoS'ed by asking that | 06:39 |
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| unique311 | N900 will have a stylus??? | 07:57 |
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| johnx | yes!!! | 07:57 |
| MaceN8x0 | thank god i have an n810 | 07:57 |
| unique311 | Thank god... | 07:57 |
| MaceN8x0 | i love this thing | 07:57 |
| MaceN8x0 | although i am anxious for my touchbook | 07:58 |
| johnx | MaceN8x0, yeah, it was really cool of god to give it to you, handing it down through the clouds and all | 07:58 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 07:58 |
| MaceN8x0 | no | 07:59 |
| MaceN8x0 | that's the touchbook | 07:59 |
| MaceN8x0 | i got the n810 from amazon for 240$ | 07:59 |
| sheepbat | that was the initial price? | 07:59 |
| MaceN8x0 | which is odd because ppl are selling them for 400+ now for some reason | 07:59 |
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| MaceN8x0 | no... got it like 3 mos ago | 07:59 |
| MaceN8x0 | new in the box | 08:00 |
| sheepbat | because.. I was going to say.. | 08:00 |
| sheepbat | if that's the price for an N810... they're charging *way* more for the N900 | 08:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | hahaha | 08:00 |
| johnx | still $240 in a lot of places | 08:00 |
| johnx | but the price is going up steadily it seems | 08:00 |
| sheepbat | well.. I suppose that's good for the N900... | 08:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | johnx, i noticed that.. what's the deal with that? | 08:01 |
| sheepbat | maemo is getting popular | 08:01 |
| johnx | MaceN8x0, they ceased production | 08:01 |
| sheepbat | ooh | 08:01 |
| sheepbat | okay, that'd explain it | 08:01 |
| johnx | (or so I am led to believe) | 08:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | is there something i don't know? :) | 08:01 |
| johnx | also, new maemo stuff continues to appear, like the snes emu | 08:01 |
| unique311 | Where's pupnik | 08:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | last i heard there was an astroid heading towards earth and only ppl with n8x0s get access to the safety caves | 08:02 |
| johnx | he left about an hour ago it seems | 08:02 |
| unique311 | Oh | 08:02 |
| johnx | or ... 3 hours ago :) | 08:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | i'm still waiting for mer to become more end user | 08:02 |
| johnx | time flies | 08:02 |
| johnx | MaceN8x0, stop waiting, starting doing :) | 08:03 |
| johnx | do you follow mer-chatter? | 08:03 |
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| MaceN8x0 | i'm no coder ;) | 08:03 |
| johnx | neither am I :P | 08:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | not really.. haven't used it in a month or so | 08:04 |
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| MaceN8x0 | tried it out and isn't ready yet | 08:04 |
| MaceN8x0 | really all it needs is a stable functional ui and it'd be pretty good | 08:04 |
| MaceN8x0 | the base seems well made | 08:04 |
| johnx | yup, and there are some things in motion WRT the UI | 08:04 |
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| MaceN8x0 | well. maybe .17.9.7.5.0b will have a nicer ui :) | 08:06 |
| johnx | anyways, hang on for another couple months. 0.16 will be a transitional release and cool things will start showing up in 0.17 and 0.18 | 08:06 |
| MaceN8x0 | oh i'm sure | 08:06 |
| MaceN8x0 | but by then i'd have gotten an n900 and be selling my n810 on amazon fpr $300 | 08:07 |
| MaceN8x0 | i like maemo quite a bit | 08:07 |
| MaceN8x0 | would be nicce if someone figured a way to connect a 3G modem to it directly | 08:07 |
| MaceN8x0 | like an enclosure that connects to the usb port :) | 08:08 |
| johnx | if I didn't think maemo was a worthwhile platform, I would have gone over to android (or back to angstrom) a long time ago | 08:08 |
| MaceN8x0 | that protects the n810 and serves as a steady connection for the n810 | 08:08 |
| johnx | having problems with bt? | 08:09 |
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| MaceN8x0 | android sucks | 08:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 08:09 |
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| MaceN8x0 | it was ok at first but its dev path is total shit | 08:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | lack thereof? | 08:09 |
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| johnx | well, the path forward looks to be replacing the non-free parts | 08:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | not to mention the pay for me apps that all suck | 08:10 |
| MaceN8x0 | and constantly crash | 08:10 |
| MaceN8x0 | slow stock updates | 08:10 |
| MaceN8x0 | unstable 3rd party roms | 08:10 |
| MaceN8x0 | slow operation | 08:11 |
| MaceN8x0 | poor multitasking | 08:11 |
| johnx | android is a lot heavier than maemo | 08:11 |
| johnx | abstraction has heavy costs | 08:11 |
| MaceN8x0 | well. it also has a shitty multitasking scheme | 08:11 |
| johnx | and in many situations the benefits of it go to the carriers/providers | 08:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | close what i think you aren't using | 08:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | by myself | 08:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 08:12 |
| johnx | do you think it's better or worse than freezing and rebooting? | 08:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | well. i'd have to check but i think on a clean boot with nothing running... | 08:13 |
| MaceN8x0 | you get almost no playroom with the ram on the G1 | 08:13 |
| GAN800 | OOM sucks no matter how it's handled. | 08:14 |
| MaceN8x0 | maemo seems to do an ok job of swapping to an sd | 08:14 |
| MaceN8x0 | android doesn't seem to handle it too well | 08:14 |
| GAN800 | It'll start killing, too, without, though. | 08:14 |
| johnx | I think app writers need to learn to handle the situation where the OS tells them to 'STOP' better | 08:14 |
| GAN800 | Browser plugins then background apps. | 08:14 |
| MaceN8x0 | it will stop you from opening apps | 08:15 |
| MaceN8x0 | maemo will at least | 08:15 |
| MaceN8x0 | instead of systematically self killing apps for you | 08:15 |
| MaceN8x0 | i'd rather android did that | 08:15 |
| johnx | MaceN8x0, it will if it runs low enough and the watchdog doesn't reboot you first | 08:15 |
| johnx | but that's pretty rare | 08:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh, yeah.. i think compiling was the only thing that did that to me on the n810 | 08:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | in gentoo | 08:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | hardcore maemo use seems to have never done that to me | 08:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | i would give anything for a 3G modem case for my n810 | 08:17 |
| johnx | still not understanding how that's better than tethering via bt... | 08:18 |
| johnx | maybe some very marginal speed gains | 08:18 |
| johnx | lots more power usage | 08:18 |
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| johnx | and a bulky, awkward setup | 08:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | tethering requires 2 devices | 08:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | and kills the phone anyways | 08:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | 2 devices is bulkier than 1 | 08:19 |
| johnx | ah, so you're picturing like a really professional 3G modem attachment? | 08:19 |
| johnx | I was picturing a DIY type thing | 08:19 |
| MaceN8x0 | yes | 08:19 |
| MaceN8x0 | maybe something that you replace the stand with | 08:19 |
| * johnx leaves the phone in his pocket and stays paired for hours without losing much battery in either device | 08:20 | |
| MaceN8x0 | i have to wifi tether my g1 | 08:20 |
| MaceN8x0 | no bt dun | 08:20 |
| johnx | aaaah | 08:20 |
| johnx | lame | 08:20 |
| MaceN8x0 | yeah | 08:20 |
| johnx | yeah, that sucks a lot | 08:20 |
| johnx | why not BT DUN/PAN? no one hacked it in yet? | 08:20 |
| MaceN8x0 | but the 3G on my n95 via bt | 08:20 |
| MaceN8x0 | was just as bad | 08:20 |
| johnx | TM506 here works great | 08:21 |
| MaceN8x0 | 3G modems are power whores too | 08:21 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh. well... bbl | 08:21 |
| MaceN8x0 | have to check something | 08:21 |
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| RST38h | "I do hope that the boys reading aren't too obsessed about anti-aging though, because the last bit of bad news is that "only the female mice benefited" in the study." | 09:09 |
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| AStorm | RST38h: hmm? | 09:11 |
| AStorm | what was that quote about? | 09:11 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Apparently female bulemic mice live 20% longer | 09:11 |
| AStorm | ah that. | 09:12 |
| AStorm | general caloric reduction. | 09:12 |
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| AStorm | it toggles various hormonal reactions that aren't well understood | 09:12 |
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| AStorm | you could get about 10-15% (including men) by dropping to 1200 kcal somehow | 09:13 |
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| AStorm | it's *hard* to do w/o depriving yourself | 09:13 |
| AStorm | the other way around might work too | 09:13 |
| AStorm | but really, far too many variables | 09:14 |
| AStorm | so this observation helps... nothing. | 09:14 |
| AStorm | :P | 09:15 |
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| RST38h | apparently you can simulate it in mice by removing a gene | 09:20 |
| AStorm | sure, twiddle and play | 09:20 |
| RST38h | female bulemic mice of course | 09:20 |
| AStorm | which of course doesn't mean anything yet ;p | 09:21 |
| RST38h | if you are into mice, it does =) | 09:21 |
| AStorm | the question is why is the reaction so powerful | 09:21 |
| AStorm | one gene affecting lifetime by 20%? how. :> | 09:22 |
| RST38h | less fat created, and fat apparently badly affects many things | 09:22 |
| AStorm | hmmm | 09:22 |
| AStorm | interesting | 09:22 |
| RST38h | there has been a link established between fat and respiratory ilnesses, fat and diabetes | 09:22 |
| AStorm | but that's still not 20%. must affect something important | 09:23 |
| AStorm | I know that "fat" is actually an endocrine organ | 09:23 |
| AStorm | (in addition to being an energy store) | 09:23 |
| * RST38h seems to remember reading about this as well | 09:23 | |
| RST38h | Further proves that the God has been a hacker. | 09:24 |
| AStorm | rotfl | 09:26 |
| AStorm | but let's not start that flamewar | 09:26 |
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| * RST38h has not specified which God =) | 09:29 | |
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| AStorm | if any | 09:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | hahaha | 09:37 |
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| * RST38h officially hates SigmaTel now | 10:22 | |
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| Myrtti | I feel so out of touch with everything | 10:43 |
| frals | i dont feel much touching anything atm | 10:44 |
| RST38h | same here | 10:44 |
| frals | ... damn weather :p | 10:44 |
| RST38h | what weather? it is sunny here | 10:44 |
| frals | solid gray sky and like 5C here :( | 10:45 |
| frals | knew i shouldve closed the window before going to bed | 10:45 |
| Myrtti | I'm looking at http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/ and the only thing I can think of is "er, ok, what's the purpose?" | 10:46 |
| RST38h | Well, we still have a few days before it switches to perpetual twilight here =) | 10:46 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: Ah, I asked Niels the same yesterday. He says that this is for rigorous quality testing :) | 10:46 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: right - but I fail to see exactly *where* the quality testing comes into play with the view I'm looking at | 10:47 |
| Myrtti | perhaps that is because I'm just a documentation geek | 10:47 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: You are supposed to test an app and if you like it - thumb it up | 10:47 |
| Myrtti | and don't and can't do a lot of testing as I've got only mah N800 | 10:48 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: thumbing app can only be done on the application page, cannot thumb up in this list (don't ask me why :)) | 10:48 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: That is why Extras is going to stay empty for Fremantle :) | 10:48 |
| RST38h | Official, enabled on the upcoming N900 devices, but empty. | 10:48 |
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| Stskeeps | enabled? wow | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | that's a step up | 10:49 |
| RST38h | step off the cliff, if you ask me: the qa process makes it near impossible to get there, especially if you update frequently | 10:49 |
| Myrtti | oh, right, you can do that thumbing *there* | 10:49 |
| Myrtti | I had to *look* for that | 10:49 |
| RST38h | Sts: Every revision of your program has to be thumbed up separately | 10:49 |
| lbt | ~johnx | 10:50 |
| Myrtti | makes sense, in it's weird way | 10:50 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Complain to Niels, if enough people complain he will fix it | 10:50 |
| Myrtti | nah, I think that this time it was PEBKAC | 10:50 |
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| Myrtti | but what it might need is a bit of explanation somewhere on that page | 10:51 |
| Myrtti | on the queue or something | 10:51 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: I do think it is not PEBKAC | 10:51 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: You have to click through twice before you can vote, you vote on each revision for each platform separately | 10:52 |
| Myrtti | "This is the queue of fremantle extras-testing. To raise a karma of the application, you need to..." | 10:52 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: This is seriously messy process | 10:52 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: the process does have its merits though - when I now stop and think about it, it makes perfect sense | 10:52 |
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| Myrtti | of course you need to vote for each version separately | 10:53 |
| Myrtti | it's just not ... explained too well | 10:53 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: It could be worse... I mean, I hear on some platforms that you have to get your application signed before you can install it! | 10:53 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: I already told the story of a Soviet supermarket once | 10:55 |
| RST38h | Let me see if I can find in in mgedmin's logs :) | 10:55 |
| Myrtti | and if someone says "this is explained on garage or talk or ..." I'm going to scream | 10:55 |
| RST38h | qwerty: I am always signing my Maemo packages | 10:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | That's optional | 10:55 |
| Myrtti | because this process needs to be explained where the process is | 10:55 |
| Myrtti | not on some arbitrary page that needs to be searched for | 10:56 |
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| Myrtti | RST38h: I haven't heard the story but I can imagine the punchline of it | 10:58 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: Anyway (google failed), there was that procedure in .SU department stores where to buy something you had to tell the girl what you want, get a piece of paper, go to cashier, exchange piece of paper and money for the second piece of paper, go back, exchange the 2nd piece for the actual item but only after a proper record is made in the book | 10:59 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: It still exists in some really old stores. It is totally logical, prevents you from stealing merchandise, prevents the first goal from stealing money, etc. | 10:59 |
| RST38h | s/goal/girl (hm) | 11:00 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: The problem with it that it is absolute, total, insufferable pain in the ass (and also breeds long lines) | 11:00 |
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| Myrtti | RST38h: yeah, I recently looked the first episode of Michael Palin's From pole to pole | 11:01 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: I am not sure why Maemo needs to reimplement the same kind of procedure with Extras. | 11:01 |
| Myrtti | he tried to buy a bottle of vodka in 1989. | 11:01 |
| Myrtti | or somewhere thereabouts | 11:01 |
| RST38h | Wrong, wrong time to buy vodka | 11:01 |
| lbt | start scared.... realise it's OK.... relax.... | 11:01 |
| lbt | ^^Nokia | 11:01 |
| lbt | someone get some valium | 11:01 |
| * Myrtti gives lbt some strawberry-flavoured valium syrup | 11:02 | |
| lbt | Or maybe offer them some 1989 Vodka if there's any left | 11:02 |
| Myrtti | here you go | 11:02 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: vodka in 1989 would actually be an extreme case | 11:02 |
| * lbt doses Nokia | 11:02 | |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: With all the limitations on alcohol sales of that time. But he would still suffer buying other stuff. | 11:03 |
| * Myrtti checks the date | 11:03 | |
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| Myrtti | BBC, 1991 | 11:05 |
| Myrtti | I suspect it was shot a bit earlier though | 11:05 |
| Myrtti | he *did* travel from pole to pole and started from the north, traveling through Finland | 11:06 |
| RST38h | yea, that would also do | 11:06 |
| * RST38h has seen a few episodes of that | 11:06 | |
| RST38h | Russian one and Mongolian one, I think | 11:06 |
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| * RST38h prays to the Tentacled One to make a visit to SigmaTel HQ | 11:15 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | He needs some sun, so he's in California eying up Apple's HQ | 11:16 |
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| RST38h | Between him and El Jobso, I am not sure who is gonna win... | 11:19 |
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| * johnx must be crazy: just updated to the ubuntu 9.10 beta a day after release | 11:20 | |
| Stskeeps | oh boy | 11:20 |
| RST38h | oh | 11:20 |
| * RST38h has got a job invitation from RIM in the meanwhile | 11:21 | |
| RST38h | Anyone leaving in TX and enjoying kernel work, let me know, I will forward your resume to the guy | 11:21 |
| johnx | RST38h, maybe their looking for a fall-guy for surepress...I'd be wary | 11:21 |
| RST38h | s/leaving/lving | 11:21 |
| * Stskeeps hugs qwerty12_N810 for brightness applet | 11:21 | |
| RST38h | (shit, I am getting lousy with keys) | 11:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: heh | 11:23 |
| RST38h | ok, I now know where this damn memory bandwidth problem is | 11:25 |
| RST38h | (and the funnniest part is that it is not even mine :() | 11:25 |
| johnx | maybe I drank the kool-aid or something but 9.10 feels noticeably faster than 9.04 | 11:28 |
| RST38h | there have been desktop-related changes to Linux scheduler, right? | 11:29 |
| johnx | also, ff3.5 vs ff3 | 11:29 |
| johnx | though yeah, that sounds like something I remember hearing about | 11:30 |
| RST38h | johnx: I somehow got upgraded to 3.5 but it still says Shiretoko 3.5.4pre | 11:30 |
| RST38h | johnx: No idea what I have to do to make it show up like normal FF | 11:30 |
| johnx | RST38h, it kept 3.0 around for compatibility | 11:30 |
| johnx | so just wait for 9.10 and then hit the upgrade | 11:30 |
| RST38h | aha | 11:31 |
| johnx | the situation with ff on linux is kinda special since it's the OS default/core/whatever browser, so they tend to be really conservative about upgrading it | 11:31 |
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| lbt | johnx: would like to hear about how 9.10 compares to 9.04 - work does webdev and wants ff3.5 | 11:35 |
| * RST38h fixed the problem by adding many, MANY NOPs | 11:35 | |
| johnx | lbt, seems ok so far and it has this not-entirely-possible to quantify feeling of being "quicker" or "more responsive" or one of those words that drives devs mad :) | 11:36 |
| lbt | nod | 11:37 |
| johnx | regressions: it ate my wifi driver | 11:37 |
| johnx | had to run modprobe ath5k | 11:37 |
| johnx | then all was well | 11:37 |
| johnx | also, as always there's a little bit of foreign language input stuff that needs shaking out | 11:38 |
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| RST38h | zap: Here? | 11:45 |
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| MaceN8x0 | hm | 11:49 |
| RST38h | Ah perfect! A kernel panic! | 11:52 |
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| wazd | Heya all | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | heya wazd | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: do you have some hours during the weekend to make a mer and maemo summit combined template? | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | for presentations | 12:28 |
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| waz1 | Damned phone | 12:33 |
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| waz1 | Stskeeps: sure, I'll try to find some | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | hang on then | 12:33 |
| waz1 | Template for slides? | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, there's an existing one for the summit speakers, but we need a mer touch to it.. | 12:34 |
| Myrtti | if I were to attend it and to speak, I'd demand LaTeX templates | 12:34 |
| Myrtti | but perhaps I'd be forced to do them myself :-D | 12:34 |
| Stskeeps | probably :P | 12:35 |
| Stskeeps | waz1: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=338240&postcount=1 | 12:35 |
| waz1 | Stskeeps: cool thanks | 12:38 |
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| lardman | morning all | 12:41 |
| SpeedEvil | '' | 12:41 |
| Stskeeps | morn lardman | 12:41 |
| frals | mornin | 12:41 |
| lardman | how are things in maemo land today? | 12:41 |
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| Stskeeps | presentation writing | 12:41 |
| frals | mms research ;) | 12:41 |
| lardman | ah good good | 12:42 |
| johnx | playing with mer on the zaurus | 12:42 |
| lardman | johnx: you still have a working battery!? | 12:42 |
| johnx | hahaha...no | 12:42 |
| johnx | but I figure if I can get this working there might be a couple hardcore zaurus users who'll come and play | 12:43 |
| lardman | cool | 12:43 |
| lardman | Well I may be able to power up my 750 and 5500 if needs be | 12:43 |
| johnx | dunno if there really are zaurus users out there though :/ | 12:43 |
| lardman | is oesf still active? | 12:44 |
| johnx | kinda | 12:44 |
| lardman | well there are some then | 12:44 |
| lardman | but users rather than hackers I guess? | 12:44 |
| johnx | very likely | 12:45 |
| lardman | or hackers who couldn't afford to buy new hw perhaps :) | 12:46 |
| johnx | actually, it does look kinda active | 12:46 |
| johnx | crazy | 12:46 |
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| lardman | hmm, really need to either get this webscraping stuff working or just stop | 12:50 |
| frals | what site you scraping? | 12:50 |
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| lardman | barcode ones, amazon, barcodepedia, etc | 12:51 |
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| frals | okey | 12:52 |
| lardman | I'm just not getting back the tags I wanted, obviously my code needs to be more careful about how it steps through the docs | 12:54 |
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| lardman | hmm, haven't got time to do the libconic connection stuff either, drat | 12:56 |
| frals | btw, does anyone know if the "only one connection at a time" is a platform limit under maemo5? | 12:58 |
| frals | im dont know too much about connection handling but shouldnt it be possible to have "dial up" (ie grps/3g) and a wlan connection at the same time in the linux kernel at least? | 12:59 |
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| Stskeeps | sure,but default route.. | 12:59 |
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| frals | ah right that was the problem | 13:00 |
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| * lardman wonders why he's getting "Aborted (core dumped)" | 13:06 | |
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| frals | http://wiki.maemo.org/MMS_implementation#Fetch_the_MMS_from_the_provider. does this seem reasonable or did i get something wrong? | 13:49 |
| thux | does nokia.music support diablo browser? | 13:49 |
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| thux | i got sms from mynokia that free music for 10e but when i boot my laptop nokia music page said that they don't support linux | 13:51 |
| thux | only xp and vista is supported and ie6 + | 13:52 |
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| wjt | zerojay: interesting; can you get some debugging output from it? | 13:53 |
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| glass | thux: yeh their music team is imebeciles | 13:54 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: I can't open odp file :( | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: hmm, i guess i can make a scrshot | 13:54 |
| lcuk2 | frals, seems reasonable to me as an outsider | 13:55 |
| lcuk2 | Stskeeps, if the template comes back as a screenshot after can you just use that as a background | 13:55 |
| frals | yeah thats what im thinking as well lcuk2, cheers :) | 13:55 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: make it .png plz :) | 13:55 |
| frals | need someone who knows all that mumbojumbo now :D | 13:55 |
| lcuk2 | my thoughts exactly :) | 13:56 |
| lcuk2 | are you coming to the summit | 13:56 |
| frals | me? no, im way to new here ;) | 13:56 |
| frals | im glad to see you are going after all :) | 13:56 |
| * lcuk2 nods :) big relief | 13:57 | |
| Stskeeps | wazd: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/template.png | 13:57 |
| lcuk2 | Stskeeps, can you get him a highres full screen of that slide - so when he makes it hes not working from scaled images | 13:58 |
| lcuk2 | ie screenshot from the slide running :P | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | let's see.. | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk2: i don't have a 16:9 screen so | 13:59 |
| lcuk2 | ahh | 14:00 |
| * lcuk2 guesses wazd will have the glyphs at the bottom anyway | 14:00 | |
| wazd | Stskeeps: can you make 100% shot plz? | 14:01 |
| Stskeeps | mmk | 14:01 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: you have 80% now | 14:01 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 14:02 |
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| frals | do you need the outlines for it or just the background? | 14:03 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/template100.png | 14:03 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: thx :) | 14:04 |
| frals | www.frals.se/temp/MaemoSummit_template.png | 14:04 |
| frals | doh | 14:04 |
| frals | never realised powerpoint could export to png ^^ | 14:04 |
| frals | www.frals.se/temp/maemosummit_template.png | 14:05 |
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| frals | even | 14:05 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: basically i want some degree of mer touch to it.. not sure why we need black backgrounds in n900 style themes but hey.. | 14:05 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: I'll do my best :) | 14:09 |
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| mojocafe | good morning everyone. Anyone of you owns a n97 ? | 14:13 |
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| RST38h | Back | 14:18 |
| RST38h | Grrrh... | 14:18 |
| bubububububu | hi all. I'm a noob and I have a question regarding the set up of Esbox for maemo | 14:19 |
| RST38h | wazd: EHLO! Can you quickly add TI73 to that menu image and send it over? | 14:19 |
| * RST38h is packaging apps for Fremantle and will do the Diablo packages in the process | 14:19 | |
| bubububububu | I followed the instructions, got the virtual machine image, run the esbox setup | 14:19 |
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| bubububububu | but I am stuck on this: esbox asks me (SMB mount) for username, workgroup/domain and password | 14:20 |
| wazd | RST38h: heya | 14:20 |
| bubububububu | can anybody guide me a bit from here? | 14:20 |
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| RST38h | Ehehehe | 14:21 |
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| wazd | RST38h: looks like I've lost .psd with selection menu - wait za bit I'll redraw it :) | 14:23 |
| wazd | RST38h: 20 mins | 14:23 |
| mojocafe | bubu: i had now problems at all - do you have some kind of user-profiles on your system? Is it XP or Vista ? | 14:24 |
| floppyrom | i have downloaded this Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Server_SDK_Virtual_Image from Esbox | 14:24 |
| floppyrom | while running the wizzard I got stuck | 14:24 |
| RST38h | wazd: I can send you the pngs =) | 14:24 |
| RST38h | (there were two, the full one and the one with non-working ti models blanked) | 14:24 |
| wazd | RST38h: I have them :) | 14:25 |
| RST38h | ! | 14:25 |
| * RST38h found how to attach images to mime types btw, so new packages will show gba/gb/sms/rom/etc files with correct icons | 14:25 | |
| RST38h | "Martin will head a new unit that will work on the N900 and other devices using Maemo, according to an internal announcement. He was responsible for Internet and iPhone service strategy at Apple." <=== RUN FOR THE HILLS! | 14:26 |
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| glass__ | let's hope he left apple for being pissed off at appstore stupidities | 14:28 |
| floppyrom | HELP: I installed Esbox...that has a wizard that downloads Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Server_SDK_Virtual_Image for you I have loaded the image in Vmware, started it, configured Esbox to connect to the virtual image when I press validate machine from Esbox, another window pops up asking me about username, workgroup doman and password and here i got stuck | 14:29 |
| RST38h | glass: Lots of Apple strategy seems to be defined by el Jobso anyway | 14:30 |
| glass__ | RST38h: yeh | 14:31 |
| glass__ | RST38h: would be frustrating to come up with strategies under jobs.. | 14:31 |
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| wazd | RST38h: haha, found the psd) | 14:35 |
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| wazd | RST38h: maybe I should change bck to black, so it will look more sexy on n900? | 14:37 |
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| RST38h | wazd: As you think necessary :) Although both n8x0 and n900 will share the same image | 14:41 |
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| RST38h | wazd: You can even use some stealthy dotted background, like the surface of a golf ball rotated 45 degrees or something :) | 14:42 |
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| RST38h | http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/illinois/ilndce/1:2008cv00975/217225/ | 14:47 |
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| LoCusF_ | has anyone experimented with the systemtap tool? I remember qwerty12_N810 had a post of it in the forum :) | 14:51 |
| * qwerty12_N810 has never used SystemTap :) | 14:51 | |
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| waz1 | RST38h: I'll try to send you the file | 15:04 |
| waz1 | RST38h: can you tell me your mail, can't load gmail addressbook | 15:05 |
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| RST38h | waz1: luarvique at gmail.com | 15:11 |
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| waz1 | RST38h: got it, trying to send :) | 15:12 |
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| waz1 | RST38h: well, looks like it's out | 15:16 |
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| lopz | hey! | 15:18 |
| waz1 | RST38h: nah,, failed again | 15:20 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie: Still need me to ring you? | 15:21 |
| Jaffa | Af'noon, all | 15:21 |
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| waz1 | RST38h: and again | 15:23 |
| RST38h | wazd: checking | 15:24 |
| RST38h | wazd: not there =( | 15:24 |
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| lardman | re | 15:36 |
| lardman | hi Jaffa | 15:36 |
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| derf | lardman: Did you ever get those example barcode images that don't decode with zbar? | 15:38 |
| lardman | no, sorry, been a busy week | 15:38 |
| lardman | just try any 1D barcode | 15:39 |
| lardman | this was v 0.8 | 15:39 |
| derf | Okay. spadix is preparing for another release mid-October, and I'd like to get this resolved by then. | 15:39 |
| derf | That release will include the QR stuff. | 15:39 |
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| lardman | it would always recognise an EAN8 code from what was actually an EAN13 | 15:39 |
| lardman | cool, ok | 15:39 |
| lardman | After this week coming I'll have some time to do some testing | 15:40 |
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| lardman | derf: I understand the 0.9 code is better anyway | 15:47 |
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| Shapeshifter | Does maemo run an actual X server, and is the touchscreen used as an input device to it, or is this all handled in an obscure and special way? | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | Xomap, yes, it's an input device, but it's not Xorg | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | on N8x0 | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | on N900 it's a xorg | 15:54 |
| AStorm | it is xorg, but old | 15:56 |
| AStorm | patched. | 15:56 |
| Shapeshifter | I see. I wonder how hard it would be to get circular scrolling (instead of that silly hectical circular zoom), or circular zooming but starting from an outside area or corner. Similar to synaptics circular scrolling. You would start in a corner and then perform circular motion clockwise or anti-clockwise and it would scroll up and down or zoom in or out depending on the corner. | 15:56 |
| AStorm | touchscreen looks like a mouse to everything | 15:56 |
| Mozillion | speaking of Xorg.. I'm using the fremantle sdk on Xephyr.. but there is... something.. with the colors.. there seems to be no red | 15:57 |
| AStorm | and there is a way to get pressure reading | 15:57 |
| RST38h | not really | 15:57 |
| Stskeeps | Mozillion: there's inverted colours problem i think | 15:57 |
| AStorm | Mozillion: wrong 16-bit format | 15:57 |
| Shapeshifter | AStorm: well, not really | 15:57 |
| AStorm | Shapeshifter: yes, yes really. it generates mouse events. | 15:57 |
| Shapeshifter | AStorm: there's lots of additional functionality to a touchpad/screen | 15:57 |
| RST38h | You can read pressure but whatever you read can only be interpreted as pressed/not-pressed | 15:57 |
| Mozillion | oh, is there a workaround? | 15:57 |
| AStorm | Shapeshifter: no, none at all | 15:58 |
| AStorm | there's pressure and position. | 15:58 |
| AStorm | absolute. | 15:58 |
| AStorm | that's all. | 15:58 |
| AStorm | RST38h: nah... it depends on an app | 15:58 |
| AStorm | whatever reads the pressure can react in various ways ;> | 15:59 |
| Shapeshifter | AStorm: no, the underlying driver can often create additional events. like e.g. on my synaptics pad, if I start in the upper right corner and then do a circular clockwise motion on the pad, the pad sends button5, (scrolling down), and not the position, as you say it would always do | 15:59 |
| AStorm | Shapeshifter: that's driver stuff | 15:59 |
| Shapeshifter | it can also register multiple position, and then send button7 | 15:59 |
| Shapeshifter | AStorm: yeah. that's what I'm saying. | 15:59 |
| AStorm | it's NOT based on any special input from the screen itself | 15:59 |
| AStorm | and no, this touchscreen driver doesn't do anything fance. | 15:59 |
| AStorm | *fancy | 15:59 |
| Shapeshifter | AStorm: "special input from the screen itself" ?? | 15:59 |
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| AStorm | from the pad. | 16:00 |
| AStorm | you could make an app just listen to mouse events w/o other synaptics junk | 16:00 |
| AStorm | and do equivalent. | 16:00 |
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| AStorm | (now, have to read pressure as well, but I leave that as excercise to the reader :P) | 16:00 |
| AStorm | you just do a mouse grab | 16:02 |
| AStorm | that takes all mouse events | 16:02 |
| AStorm | do whatever you want with them | 16:02 |
| AStorm | and send new mouse events. or others. | 16:02 |
| Shapeshifter | wasn't the n900 the phone where you could slide your finger from the left of the screen to do something? | 16:03 |
| RST38h | AStorm: does not depend on an app. Try reading directly from /dev/event* | 16:03 |
| AStorm | RST38h: yes yes | 16:03 |
| RST38h | or /dev/input* whatever | 16:03 |
| AStorm | but that won't block X from taking them as well | 16:03 |
| AStorm | while the grab will | 16:04 |
| RST38h | No, I mean a different thing | 16:04 |
| AStorm | ? | 16:04 |
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| AStorm | so, what do you mean? | 16:04 |
| RST38h | pressure readings will vary wildly across the screen | 16:05 |
| RST38h | so, you cannot really rely on them, just interpret them as a boolean value | 16:05 |
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| AStorm | nah. | 16:08 |
| AStorm | you *can* interpret them more reasonably | 16:08 |
| Shapeshifter | so, I just found the demo video again. He swipes the finger from the left side of the screen, and then he gets a mouse pointer in the browser. that "swiping from left side", is it a special event from the input device (touchscreen), or what is it? | 16:08 |
| AStorm | but yes, they're very imprecise | 16:08 |
| AStorm | and unstable too | 16:08 |
| RST38h | You can probably create a model of the pressure distirbution across the screen | 16:08 |
| AStorm | Shapeshifter: it's a normal mouse event | 16:08 |
| RST38h | But I have not seen this done in practice | 16:08 |
| AStorm | the app (window manager) responds to it | 16:08 |
| Shapeshifter | AStorm: so how does it know you came from the left, and not just started at the left side of the screen? | 16:09 |
| AStorm | duhhh | 16:09 |
| AStorm | there are x events sent in some time | 16:09 |
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| AStorm | one at position foo, another at position foo+1 etc. | 16:09 |
| AStorm | use some basic math and you can deduct the move. | 16:10 |
| Shapeshifter | but the touch area doesn't extend over the actual screen border, right? | 16:10 |
| AStorm | no idea | 16:10 |
| AStorm | I don't have the n900 | 16:10 |
| AStorm | if it does, then it's no different anyway | 16:10 |
| AStorm | those are still positions | 16:10 |
| RST38h | DLink web designer went mad. | 16:11 |
| AStorm | (either relative or absolute - I suspect the driver uses absolute) | 16:11 |
| RST38h | Somebody kill him please | 16:11 |
| AStorm | *sends | 16:11 |
| AStorm | X events always have absolute positions | 16:12 |
| Jaffa | Any evolution experts? | 16:12 |
| lcuk2 | darwin! | 16:12 |
| Myrtti | don't talk about Evolution | 16:13 |
| Myrtti | I might throw up | 16:13 |
| Myrtti | brings back bad memories of trying to work with former employers Exchange server | 16:14 |
| * Jaffa is trying to work out how, using the ebook API, Contacts manages to store several instances of the same field | 16:14 | |
| RST38h | PINE. | 16:22 |
| RST38h | For all your email needs. | 16:22 |
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| * javispedro wakes up and sighs. | 16:22 | |
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| javispedro | morning. | 16:23 |
| RST38h | good morning, the time is 17:23 | 16:23 |
| frals | AStorm: would you mind reading through http://wiki.maemo.org/MMS_implementation and see if i missed anything vital from your and ab's discussion the other week? as i dont quite have the techincal know-how in this field :) | 16:23 |
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| javispedro | RST38h, it's @600 here. | 16:25 |
| frals | 1525 and i just woke up from a nap, so mornin ;) | 16:25 |
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| * RST38h traceroutes | 16:26 | |
| javispedro | now wait while I eat supper. | 16:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | frals: you might for example have MMS server running as a user, and route all packets to and from that user to ppp-mms interface. | 16:33 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: mms-fetcher-daemon | 16:33 |
| RST38h | Don't you think that integrating MMS with the Fremantle messaging and picture sharing is a better idea? | 16:33 |
| RST38h | no need for separate daemons etc | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | ^ | 16:34 |
| lcuk2 | it may take longer to implement and having a prototype interface would be a good start | 16:34 |
| lcuk2 | so then it can be slotted into messaging asap | 16:34 |
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| lcuk2 | the proof of concept would be better and also give the messaging ui guys time to work on a proper interface | 16:35 |
| SpeedEvil | I meant as a daemon simply to allow it to be seperated by iptables so it goes over the right interface | 16:35 |
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| * RST38h does not think the encoding/decoding and sending parts are such a problem | 16:35 | |
| SpeedEvil | nomatter what IP the MMS server is on, even if it's the same IP as a server on the alternate interface | 16:35 |
| RST38h | But once you hit SMS and MMSCs, it is a different proble | 16:36 |
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| frals | SpeedEvil: ie you bind it to the right interface, right? | 16:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | frals: more or less | 16:36 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: route add 1.2.3.4 ppp:mmc - fails if there is also a server on 1.2.3.4 on ppp:normal | 16:37 |
| SpeedEvil | hence iptables to segregate by user | 16:37 |
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| Stskeeps | wb wazd | 16:38 |
| frals | SpeedEvil: mind adding it to the wiki? :) | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Going to sleep now. | 16:38 |
| RST38h | finally a well connected wazd | 16:38 |
| frals | okey | 16:38 |
| frals | thanks for the input, ill try to add it in there somewhere then | 16:39 |
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| wazd | RST38h: not really) | 16:40 |
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| wazd | I'll be well connected on 7th | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | where the army hooks you up to electricity? ;) | 16:42 |
| * frals is confused.. http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=MMS_implementation&diff=19214&oldid=19199 | 16:43 | |
| wazd | Army won't do anything to me now :) | 16:43 |
| AStorm | frals: looks good | 16:43 |
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| AStorm | but what I was thinking about is more like this: | 16:43 |
| AStorm | http://lartc.org/howto/lartc.cookbook.fullnat.intro.html | 16:43 |
| AStorm | but it's crap | 16:44 |
| AStorm | that's iptables nat | 16:44 |
| AStorm | I wanted an example with simple iproute2 nat ;p | 16:44 |
| lcuk2 | frals, looks more like a slip, recert it perhaps.. | 16:45 |
| lcuk2 | revert | 16:45 |
| frals | yeah thats what im thinking as well lcuk2 | 16:45 |
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| AStorm | frals: just simple routes should be enough though | 16:45 |
| frals | AStorm: thanks! okey, that looks a whole lot harder - but do you think the stuff i put there would work? | 16:45 |
| AStorm | what we really need is for the ppp to expose separate interfaces per APN | 16:45 |
| frals | yeah okey | 16:46 |
| AStorm | and then all things are possible | 16:46 |
| AStorm | e.g. the GPRS chip driver will have to look like x devices | 16:46 |
| frals | so basically it needs to create a separate iface for each apn when you set one up | 16:46 |
| AStorm | yes | 16:46 |
| frals | alright | 16:46 |
| wazd | RST38h: modest refuses to send an email to you | 16:46 |
| AStorm | (which it is actually, it's a separate connection) | 16:47 |
| ShadowJK | hopefully you can just talk AT to it | 16:47 |
| AStorm | that's not the problem... | 16:49 |
| AStorm | the problem is how to hold multiple sessions | 16:49 |
| AStorm | I wonder how APN stuff is done in the actual hardware | 16:49 |
| AStorm | is it some tag in the packets? | 16:49 |
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| RST38h | wazd: ah screw modest, gmail ftw | 16:50 |
| wazd | RST38h: screw edge) | 16:50 |
| ShadowJK | well if there's a thing you can talk AT to, hopefully you can open it twice; problem solved | 16:50 |
| AStorm | "hopefully" can't work | 16:51 |
| AStorm | since /dev/<foo> is blocked. | 16:51 |
| AStorm | the driver has to support that | 16:51 |
| wazd | I'll try to upload to radikal | 16:51 |
| AStorm | which means that it might have to track separate AT states | 16:51 |
| AStorm | it is easy if AT state is shared and only APN is different | 16:52 |
| droid001 | where is the git for n900 kernel? | 16:52 |
| RST38h | wazd: I Megafon rolls out outdoor 3G I will switch. | 16:52 |
| AStorm | droid001: linux-omap likely | 16:52 |
| RST38h | wazd: (on the other hand, their rates suck) | 16:52 |
| ShadowJK | it's probably a daemon talking phonet (fonet?) to hardware and at to apps | 16:52 |
| * RST38h has to go out for ann hour or so | 16:52 | |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: unlikely | 16:52 |
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| AStorm | phonet was to die | 16:52 |
| wazd | RST38h: wait a bit | 16:53 |
| AStorm | I find it unlikely that nokia were to implement some old protocol in a new chip (if it's theirs) | 16:53 |
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| ShadowJK | since it was already revealed somewhere that there's a sort of at-to-phonet executable you can use to enable bluetooth tethering | 16:54 |
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| AStorm | hmmmm | 16:54 |
| AStorm | how does phonet support APNs? | 16:55 |
| ShadowJK | we dont know anything about phonet. | 16:55 |
| droid001 | AStorm: can you actualy build the n900 kernel? Howto somewere? | 16:55 |
| AStorm | droid001: No idea. | 16:56 |
| AStorm | I don't have an N900 | 16:56 |
| AStorm | and likely no howto | 16:56 |
| AStorm | use your skull contents | 16:56 |
| ShadowJK | but it works just fine in symbian world.. phone can hold 3 APNs open and a fourth through bluetooth DUN, then I ran out of APNs :-) | 16:56 |
| AStorm | mhm | 16:56 |
| AStorm | droid001: it means you need a right arm crosscompiler (e.g. in scratchbox) | 16:57 |
| AStorm | and set the right ARCH=<foo> | 16:57 |
| AStorm | then make .config with the correct drivers | 16:57 |
| AStorm | the "correct drivers" bit depends on hardware knowledge that I don't have | 16:57 |
| AStorm | so I can't help there | 16:57 |
| AStorm | but setups for beagleboard should at least somewhat work | 16:57 |
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| droid001 | n900 got my attention;), so I am trying to figure out how free the system actually is. I didnt found *any* info about the n900 kernel developement. Is it closed somewere behind the nokia walls? | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | droid001: they've released kernel sources in pre-alpha, pre-alpha2, alpha, beta, beta2 | 17:03 |
| AStorm | droid001: the actual patch used is downloadable | 17:04 |
| droid001 | link? | 17:04 |
| AStorm | and actually all the work is in linux-omap kernel tree | 17:04 |
| AStorm | or will soon be there | 17:04 |
| AStorm | linux-omap is googlable. do that. | 17:04 |
| droid001 | ok, ty | 17:04 |
| Stskeeps | droid001: repository.maemo.org/pool/ | 17:04 |
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| zerojay | wjt: Woke up to that nice Crash reporter dialog box saying telepathy-haze crashed. I sent it in. Let me know what I need to do to grab debug output for you and I'll be happy to do so. | 17:08 |
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| Shapeshifter | I don't get why so many people want MMS >.> | 17:09 |
| Shapeshifter | it's total rubbish, useless, stupid. | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | no idea, but it's good community can try to use it :P | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | / make | 17:10 |
| Myrtti | if I'm really bored, I might blog about the usecases and rationality why people want MMS | 17:11 |
| Myrtti | this would be after I've written my entry about audiobook software | 17:12 |
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| Stskeeps | i think, honestly, that the only use of MMS i've heard about has been some degree of adults sending naughty pics of themselves.. | 17:12 |
| zerojay | Yep. | 17:12 |
| Jaffa | And kids too | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | which i must admit, MMS is probably a decent technology for. | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | especially at that price. :P | 17:13 |
| Myrtti | I think, honestly, that it's the most affordible way of sending/receiving pictures of your cousins cat, if you're not internet savvy enough to be hooked on Internet 24/7 | 17:13 |
| AStorm | Shapeshifter: just so we can send pics of our wieners | 17:14 |
| Myrtti | or audio for that matter | 17:14 |
| AStorm | Shapeshifter: ;) | 17:14 |
| ShadowJK | I received an mms once. one of my clients wanting me to keep an eye out for his lost cat | 17:14 |
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| Myrtti | and from my relatives, the percentage of those non-internet savvy people would be about - 95% | 17:14 |
| Myrtti | so I can somewhat relate to the need of having it | 17:15 |
| Shapeshifter | ^^ | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | what i do worry about is overestimating current data plans and relying too much on 3g connectity.. | 17:15 |
| AStorm | hmmh? | 17:15 |
| * Stskeeps really needs to find a proper data plan at orange.pl | 17:15 | |
| Stskeeps | combined with phone | 17:16 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps: Premium. | 17:16 |
| lcuk | +1 stskeeps - its good to have, but for most people wont be an infinte resource | 17:16 |
| AStorm | no N900 there yet | 17:16 |
| AStorm | so don't bother. | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: i still have a 3g phone for tethering | 17:16 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps: Premium Pro is damn large | 17:16 |
| AStorm | or what was it called | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | Premium being a company or a orange thing/ | 17:16 |
| Myrtti | true - the non-internet savvy part is not going to buy a N900 | 17:16 |
| AStorm | now they have 5 different plans | 17:16 |
| * Stskeeps tries to find | 17:16 | |
| Myrtti | but still, in general, it's a feature that is needed | 17:16 |
| AStorm | with different limits and that extra wifi hotspot stuff in more expensive ones | 17:16 |
| AStorm | range is excellent IMO | 17:17 |
| frals | im afraid my 200mb plan wont last long on my n900, on the other hand for 6€ more i get 1gb and then throttled to 64kbps for the rest of the month so not that bad of a deal | 17:17 |
| AStorm | 200 MB is too little indeed | 17:17 |
| AStorm | here, the lowest is 500 MB | 17:17 |
| zerojay | I go through that almost daily. | 17:17 |
| AStorm | and I think it's too little as well | 17:17 |
| AStorm | zerojay: huh? | 17:17 |
| AStorm | on n810? | 17:17 |
| * ShadowJK uses a few gigabytes daily | 17:18 | |
| AStorm | what are you doing there | 17:18 |
| Myrtti | besides | 17:18 |
| Myrtti | MMS is the gateway drug to mobile internet | 17:18 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: torrents don't count | 17:18 |
| frals | im used to browsing on my n95 atm with mobile versions and without loading pictures, and last month i only used 10mb somehow | 17:18 |
| zerojay | No, not on N810. | 17:18 |
| AStorm | don't use HSPA for torrents | 17:18 |
| AStorm | it works, but most phones overheat ;p | 17:18 |
| AStorm | hopefully n900 won't | 17:18 |
| ShadowJK | right now streaming music @ 192kbit/s, downloaded a gig of crap from youtube, etc | 17:19 |
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| AStorm | still, transfer limits are too low for that | 17:19 |
| AStorm | gig from youtube? wtf?! | 17:19 |
| AStorm | note that n900 has 800x480 screen | 17:19 |
| AStorm | so anything larger is waste of bandwidth | 17:19 |
| zerojay | I freaked out a friend at the mall once. We were in a store and heard a song we liked. Looked up the lyrics, found the song title, searched for it on mininova, downloaded it with Transmission. Whole thing took maybe 10 minutes. | 17:19 |
| * ShadowJK convinced youtube to give him 640x480 | 17:20 | |
| AStorm | yep, that thing worked | 17:20 |
| AStorm | I did that with ctorrent earlier | 17:20 |
| mavhc | I assume n900 can actually play 800x480 videos, unlike n810 | 17:20 |
| AStorm | mavhc: n810 can too... but not flash | 17:20 |
| mavhc | h264? xvid? | 17:21 |
| AStorm | xvid. | 17:21 |
| AStorm | h264 is too heavy. | 17:21 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, nope, all good | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | my p3 1ghz wouldn't play 800x480 h264 | 17:21 |
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| AStorm | ShadowJK: hehe, but n810 has dsp to offload sound decoding | 17:22 |
| AStorm | and the cpu is more geared for media | 17:22 |
| ShadowJK | nah. | 17:22 |
| AStorm | SIMD? ;p | 17:22 |
| ShadowJK | P3 has more SIMD... | 17:22 |
| AStorm | lol, no | 17:23 |
| AStorm | it has the most basic SSE. | 17:23 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 17:23 |
| AStorm | it wins on memory bandwidth | 17:23 |
| ShadowJK | it has mmx2 too, it's one of the more usefuk | 17:23 |
| ShadowJK | useful | 17:23 |
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| AStorm | well, armel simd is powerful enough | 17:24 |
| AStorm | esp. if you combine with VFP | 17:24 |
| AStorm | (here and there) | 17:24 |
| ShadowJK | yeah but the diablo toolchain can't compile it ;) | 17:24 |
| ShadowJK | too old gas | 17:24 |
| AStorm | can't compile what | 17:24 |
| ShadowJK | vfp | 17:24 |
| AStorm | VFP or simd? | 17:24 |
| AStorm | ah, yes. | 17:24 |
| ShadowJK | atleast with n900 there exists lots of neon code | 17:25 |
| ShadowJK | and the dsp codecs are atleast now on-par with software decoding | 17:25 |
| zeenix | hi | 17:26 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 17:26 |
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| ShadowJK | do we have any specs on that actually, what the dsp h264 decode supports? | 17:26 |
| AStorm | ? | 17:27 |
| AStorm | I don't. | 17:27 |
| ShadowJK | I mean if it only does h2s64 baseline then people have to re-encode or use software for random crap downloaded from internet | 17:28 |
| ShadowJK | h264 | 17:28 |
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| EspadaV8 | i'm really liking the n900 | 17:29 |
| EspadaV8 | never tried the n8x0 | 17:29 |
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| AStorm | n8x0 is more like computer it seems | 17:34 |
| AStorm | or a palmtop | 17:34 |
| AStorm | different feel | 17:34 |
| * ShadowJK thinks of n900 as computer with integrated 3g modem | 17:35 | |
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| EspadaV8 | holy cow | 17:36 |
| EspadaV8 | :-D | 17:36 |
| EspadaV8 | yay me | 17:36 |
| EspadaV8 | i've just compiled, copied and ran my program on the 900 :-) | 17:37 |
| * frals|m is looking forward to just attaching his screen from the n900 instead of this ircclient while on the move | 17:37 | |
| EspadaV8 | how do you take a screenshot on the device? | 17:38 |
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| lcuk | esp | 17:41 |
| lcuk | EspadaV8, on device press shift,ctrl and p at the same time. You will find your screenshot | 17:41 |
| lcuk | then under images. | 17:41 |
| Shapeshifter | EspadaV8: you have one? | 17:42 |
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| EspadaV8 | lcuk: thanks, i'll give it a go | 17:47 |
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| EspadaV8 | :( didn't seem to work | 17:49 |
| EspadaV8 | Shapeshifter: mhmm | 17:49 |
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| lardman | argh, gst is really pissing me off now | 17:51 |
| frals|m | Gst? | 17:52 |
| lardman | GStreamer | 17:52 |
| crashanddie | goods and service tax | 17:52 |
| frals|m | I see | 17:52 |
| lardman | that is also annoying ;) | 17:52 |
| frals|m | :D | 17:52 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, I'm getting pissed off at over-engineered, over-complicated developments | 17:53 |
| kynky | use mplayer? | 17:53 |
| kynky | gstreamer seems to take same approach as directshow aka ms | 17:53 |
| crashanddie | my solution: 2 days, 3k | 17:54 |
| frals|m | Im getting slightly annoyed with the fact it smells like someone is making his dinner in this metro | 17:54 |
| crashanddie | architect's solution: 20 days, 50k | 17:54 |
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| lardman | crashanddie: you should have charged 4k | 17:54 |
| crashanddie | added security? None. Added usability? None. Added inconvenience? Yes, all the users lose their synchronisation | 17:55 |
| lardman | fremantle extras-testing reports a size mismatch error for gstreamer0.10-tools | 17:57 |
| lardman | or rather apt-get reports it | 17:57 |
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| Shapeshifter | EspadaV8: how's your battery life? | 17:59 |
| lardman | hmm, I seem to remember there's a way to check the caps of a camera using gst-inspect or similar. Anyone have any pointers? | 18:00 |
| lardman | ah, gst-inspect v4l2camsrc | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | lardman, you wouldn't know/have a flat for rent? | 18:02 |
| lardman | not while I'm still living in it, no, why's that? you coming to Bath? | 18:02 |
| EspadaV8 | Shapeshifter: not sure yet, only got it yesterday and it's been plugged in all the time | 18:03 |
| EspadaV8 | been trying to get my program ported to it | 18:03 |
| crashanddie | lardman, true, you live in the arsehole of england | 18:03 |
| crashanddie | :P | 18:03 |
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| Shapeshifter | EspadaV8: I see | 18:03 |
| frals|m | What program is that? | 18:03 |
| lardman | hmm, never heard the world heritage city called that before | 18:04 |
| EspadaV8 | alas, it's not 'mine' :( | 18:04 |
| EspadaV8 | just on loan | 18:04 |
| EspadaV8 | frals|m: it's called QPalringo | 18:04 |
| Shapeshifter | EspadaV8: do you know the keys on a HTC touch pro2 ? I'm always wondering how the n900 keys compare to those, because they are really nice (while the keys on the n97 I find quite bad). | 18:04 |
| EspadaV8 | it's a program for the place I work for, although I do it as open source using Qt | 18:04 |
| Shapeshifter | ah palringo... the IM messenger? know it from the iphone | 18:04 |
| EspadaV8 | hahaha | 18:04 |
| EspadaV8 | yep, the very one :-) | 18:05 |
| frals|m | Cool | 18:05 |
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| EspadaV8 | i'm 'Andy (PC)' and 'Andy - Linux' if you're ever in the palringo group | 18:05 |
| crashanddie | lardman, it's far from everything civilised | 18:05 |
| EspadaV8 | http://github.com/EspadaV8/QPalringo/ | 18:05 |
| EspadaV8 | it's just a pet project to learn Qt and C++ | 18:06 |
| lardman | we have hot baths, you can't get much more civilised | 18:06 |
| frals|m | :D | 18:06 |
| crashanddie | lardman, airport? | 18:07 |
| crashanddie | insulin provision? | 18:07 |
| lardman | so the plebs can get in easily!? Never | 18:07 |
| frals|m | Civilisation starts at 100mbps! ;) | 18:08 |
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| lardman | well I do have insulin | 18:08 |
| EspadaV8 | it's far from a good program, but it passes the time, and seeing it run on this is great :-) | 18:08 |
| felipec | ShadowJK: the codec we are using supports up to WVGA H.264 decoding... only base profile | 18:08 |
| ShadowJK | I forget, what's wvga in numbers? | 18:09 |
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| felipec | ShadowJK: WVGA is anything wider than VGA... 848x480, 800x480 | 18:09 |
| ShadowJK | what about the mpeg4 codec, simple profile or advanced simple profile? | 18:10 |
| * ShadowJK guesses simple :) | 18:10 | |
| ShadowJK | (no qpel and gmc) | 18:10 |
| felipec | ShadowJK: I'm not entirely sure, but I think at least gmc is supported | 18:10 |
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| lardman | anyone know what the N900 camera default framerate is for video? | 18:12 |
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| felipec | lardman: 25 fps | 18:12 |
| felipec | you mean from the camera-ui? | 18:13 |
| lardman | no, gstreamer | 18:13 |
| lardman | I get an error with the caps trying to set it to 15fps | 18:13 |
| lardman | which is what's shown in the dev guide; though this is slightly different as I want UYVY output | 18:13 |
| felipec | lardman: which dev guide? I guess that's very old =/ | 18:14 |
| lardman | the one in the wiki | 18:15 |
| lardman | do you know the lowest framerate it will support? | 18:15 |
| lardman | 8,1 gives caps errors, that's what I use on the N8x0 devices | 18:15 |
| felipec | lardman: afaik the actual framerates are a bit tricky: 1502/100, 2999/100 | 18:15 |
| lardman | ah | 18:15 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 18:15 |
| ShadowJK | 24000/1001? ;P | 18:16 |
| lardman | shame gstreamer won't go for the closest supported one when you ask it for some fraction | 18:16 |
| lardman | I'll try that ~15fps one and see how that goes | 18:16 |
| felipec | yeah... GStreamer limitation :( | 18:17 |
| lardman | are the fractions listed anywhere? | 18:17 |
| lardman | kernel driver or something? | 18:17 |
| felipec | lardman: I've no idea... but probably yeah, in the driver | 18:17 |
| * felipec checks | 18:17 | |
| lardman | thanks | 18:18 |
| lardman | ah, probably in the gstreamer source, now I think about it | 18:20 |
| felipec | lardman: I can't find it in the kernel | 18:22 |
| lardman | No, nor could I | 18:22 |
| lardman | I'm looking in gstv4l2camsrc.c now from the plugins source | 18:23 |
| felipec | lardman: ensonic on #gstreamer might now | 18:23 |
| lardman | ok, does he have a device? | 18:23 |
| lardman | or do I need to work out what type of hw the camera is to tell him? | 18:23 |
| felipec | lardman: yeah, he is on the mmf team in maemo :) | 18:23 |
| lardman | ok, will pop over once I've checked this file and ask him | 18:24 |
| felipec | lardman: actually you met him on last Maemo Summit | 18:24 |
| lardman | oh right, I have troubles linking names & nicks | 18:26 |
| felipec | hehe, yeap, and ensonic doesn't help :p | 18:27 |
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| EspadaV8 | Shapeshifter: sorry, missed the question, not sure which the touch pro2 is, let me just google it | 18:31 |
| EspadaV8 | Shapeshifter: tbh, i think the n97 keyboard looks nicer than the n900 | 18:33 |
| EspadaV8 | and the TP2 looks even better | 18:34 |
| EspadaV8 | my 2 main issues with the n900 so far are the really small keyboard and the non-tilting screen | 18:34 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh. I think I don't mind the non-tilting screen but the keys really look small and very close together. | 18:35 |
| frals | whats your previous experience with phone-sized qwertys like? just to put it in perspective | 18:35 |
| Shapeshifter | I like that the TP2 ones are quite far apart | 18:36 |
| EspadaV8 | i couldn't name any of the phones, but they've mostly been htc phone | 18:37 |
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| EspadaV8 | have tried the n97, and was very disappointed with that | 18:38 |
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| EspadaV8 | the 900 has a much better touchscreen than the 97 and 5800 | 18:40 |
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| ShadowJK | those been new 97 and new 5800 or used ones? | 18:40 |
| EspadaV8 | still not a capacitive screen though :( | 18:41 |
| EspadaV8 | new ones | 18:41 |
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| EspadaV8 | i was hoping to replace my n95 8gb with the 97 | 18:42 |
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| EspadaV8 | might very well replace it with this though | 18:42 |
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| EspadaV8 | having a full distro is nice, as is being able to code in qt for it :) | 18:43 |
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| ShadowJK | what annoys me with my n800 and n810 is that the sensitivity is excellent some parts of the screen and not so sensitive other parts of the screen | 18:43 |
| EspadaV8 | not noticed that here, but i do find myself using the stylus most of the time | 18:46 |
| Shapeshifter | a real pity that it's not capacitive. | 18:47 |
| Shapeshifter | I'd pay an extra 50 bucks for it. | 18:47 |
| * ShadowJK 'd pay 50 extra to not have capacitive | 18:47 | |
| EspadaV8 | really? how come? | 18:48 |
| ShadowJK | I'd rather be able to use stylus and get accuracy when needed than have multitouch | 18:49 |
| EspadaV8 | if the ui is done right though, you shouldn't need a stylus to be accurate... or just not need to be accurate | 18:51 |
| droid001 | heh, why is this hidden? http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/nokia-binaries/ - Directory listing is not allowed | 18:51 |
| frals | after using my gfs 5800 and a friends iphone, i can honestly say i prefer the resistive :p | 18:51 |
| ShadowJK | espadav8: yeah stylus is better for normal apps | 18:51 |
| EspadaV8 | i hate the iphone, ask anyone that knows me, but ido think that apple has a nice screen | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | droid001: because it's closed binaries there. if you accept EULA, you get acces | 18:51 |
| lcuk | droid001, because it is accessed after accepting a eula | 18:51 |
| ShadowJK | that you haven't spent 100 hours hacking on to make them huge fingerpainting excercises | 18:51 |
| lcuk | and available from apt/package manager | 18:51 |
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| ShadowJK | although, I use 9 point font size in xchat, and the channel selector has plain list with 9 point text too, and I seem able to select the right line with thumb most of the time (without using nail) | 18:53 |
| ShadowJK | of course with stylus I always get the right one :-) | 18:53 |
| Shapeshifter | I don't like styluses | 18:54 |
| Shapeshifter | matter of taste | 18:54 |
| ShadowJK | and stylus fits in hand anyway, even when typing on keyboard with both hand :-) | 18:54 |
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| ShadowJK | I like to have LOTS of content on screen at the same time | 18:55 |
| ShadowJK | making UI elements thumb-sizec seriously limits that :( | 18:55 |
| lcuk | everything has its place | 18:55 |
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| lcuk | general navigation and things expecting finger work just as well with a stylus | 18:56 |
| ShadowJK | sure | 18:56 |
| EspadaV8 | i usually like a lot of content on the screen at the same time, but i think on a phone, having easier to use widgets is more useful | 18:57 |
| lcuk | if it flows, having big nav entries just makes it easier. once you get into specific activities, if lots of choice is wanted - the stylus is perfect | 18:57 |
| EspadaV8 | without having to get the stylus out to check a box, or whatever | 18:57 |
| * lcuk nods | 18:57 | |
| droid001 | Stskeeps: what's inside? can I build a usable system without binary blobs? | 18:58 |
| EspadaV8 | i am hoping that with nokia having Qt, doing Ovi app on the n900 on linux, this'll mean having Ovi Suite for linux too, so i can start syncing my phone :-) | 18:59 |
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| Stskeeps | droid001: depends. are you OK with closed blobs as long as you can use them in your system? | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | droid001: if you don't, i'm not getting into that discussion.. if yes, check out http://wiki.maemo.org/Token_based_access_restriction | 19:03 |
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| Stskeeps | (which, in my opinion, is a much saner way to go about things than getting C&D'ed :) | 19:05 |
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| EspadaV8 | lordy it runs slow :( | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | what does? | 19:23 |
| EspadaV8 | yay, and i just seg faulted :( | 19:24 |
| EspadaV8 | Stskeeps: the app i'm working on | 19:24 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 19:25 |
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| EspadaV8 | trying to get it working on the 900 | 19:26 |
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| t_s_o | weird, what is a program that seems to be aimed at N900 doing in the os2008 download list on maemo.org? | 19:32 |
| t_s_o | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/feedhandler/ | 19:33 |
| javispedro | probably not aimed, but just someone did the sshot in the wrong SDK version. | 19:33 |
| t_s_o | could be | 19:34 |
| javispedro | there was another app with a fremantle sshot. | 19:34 |
| javispedro | ah, still on fresh list: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/pwsafe/ | 19:34 |
| t_s_o | hrmf, seems feedhandler have not made it to the repo yet... | 19:35 |
| javispedro | diablo? | 19:35 |
| t_s_o | basically, i cant find anywhere to download it... | 19:35 |
| t_s_o | yep | 19:35 |
| javispedro | i submited an app this morning and it already made it to -devel. | 19:35 |
| t_s_o | well i guess feedhandler wont work with tear anyways, so... | 19:37 |
| droid001 | Stskeeps: I don't have the slitest problem with closed source :) I know almost everything about the android system structure, but I have no much clue about maemo. Also do you mean it is alowed after some EULA click for build scripts to suck it from ftp? That's for sure way better than c&d ;) Android kernel itself is full os, but the system is not (jet) usable for actual devices without binary userspace parts. I'm just looking at how ist the binary/ | 19:38 |
| EspadaV8 | i'm hoping 2 weeks is going to be enough to get my app into a state where i can submit it | 19:38 |
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| EspadaV8 | shameless plug... http://blogs.palringo.com/andrew/?p=170 | 19:45 |
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| Stskeeps | droid001: in this system you would go to a site, agree to EULA & indicate you own a device, and then that token is part of a URL where you can grab stuff :) | 19:46 |
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| Stskeeps | so you can feed that info in a image build process if you wanted | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | (btw, this is something we are implementing) | 19:49 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Moo? | 19:57 |
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| droid001 | Stskeeps: oh I see, ty. In android I am able to build the kernel + system just following a howto ( http://source.android.com/documentation/building-for-dream ). I didn't found jet something like that for maemo ;) | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | yeah. that's where Mer comes in | 20:00 |
| droid001 | what is Mer? | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 20:01 |
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| droid001 | Stskeeps: I thought it was meant as support for old devices. Are they also on the way to qt? | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | droid001: we are community arm and not just old devices :) | 20:07 |
| Stskeeps | we'll run on n900 just fine for instance | 20:07 |
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| droid001 | Stskeeps: omap;) what's with the transition to qt? I am not realy a gtk freak :) | 20:12 |
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| Stskeeps | droid001: we already have qt-maemo but we're waiting for nokia's hand in this | 20:23 |
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| pupnik_ | trying to listen to a quiet mp3 file and wish it were * LOUDER *? try mplayer -ao alsa -af volnorm comp volume=1.2 *.mp3 | 20:26 |
| javispedro | or vote for replaygain support! | 20:26 |
| pupnik_ | shazam. now fills a room | 20:26 |
| ShadowJK | pupnik_, I think you've messed up the syntax a bit | 20:27 |
| pupnik_ | ok | 20:27 |
| pupnik_ | i do too | 20:27 |
| ShadowJK | -af volnorm,comp,volume=1.2 might work better | 20:27 |
| ShadowJK | but I'd probably try just -af volnorm first | 20:27 |
| pupnik_ | volume should be more like 2.0 also | 20:29 |
| pupnik_ | memory fail | 20:29 |
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| * lcuk shivers | 20:48 | |
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| * crashanddie_ gives lcuk a blanket | 20:48 | |
| * SpeedEvil gives lcuk a t-shirt soaked in petrol. | 20:48 | |
| * qwerty12_N810 thinks SpeedEvil's idea is better | 20:49 | |
| lcuk | :D | 20:50 |
| lcuk | ta crashanddie_ i prefer your suggestion | 20:50 |
| * lcuk is brassic | 20:50 | |
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| * SpeedEvil is in a 15C room ATM. | 20:52 | |
| SpeedEvil | Though I'm on the sofa, with blankets over me, and a little electric heatpad behind me. | 20:53 |
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| RST38h | you have got your Intel(tm) PC on you? | 20:54 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, sounds like me lol | 20:54 |
| lcuk | my crt monitor used to keep me warm | 20:55 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: It's keeping my hands warm. | 20:55 |
| EspadaV8 | oh wow, i just realised who you are lcuk | 20:55 |
| * SpeedEvil is insulating the house ATM - and going to be doing _very_ little heating. | 20:55 | |
| lcuk | EspadaV8, mm should i also know who you are? | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol, just reading the Apple exec thread. | 20:55 |
| EspadaV8 | lcuk: nope | 20:56 |
| EspadaV8 | highly unlikely | 20:56 |
| lcuk | then introduce yourself properly, no point in you knowing me but not vice versa :P | 20:57 |
| EspadaV8 | i remember seeing a vid for liqbase ages back | 20:57 |
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| lcuk | youtube down for maint :O | 20:58 |
| RST38h | gan: fear and loathing? | 20:58 |
| crashanddie__ | lcuk, your connection shite too? | 20:58 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Where will the retards go now? | 20:58 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: they're taking it down in order to remove all the boring videos. | 20:59 |
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| lcuk | sounds like a plan | 20:59 |
| Firebird | :o its been down since 12:30 EST | 20:59 |
| * EspadaV8 is mysterious like a ninja | 20:59 | |
| EspadaV8 | i'm a nobody really | 20:59 |
| EspadaV8 | although i sometimes answer to the name Andy | 20:59 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.google.com/trends | 21:01 |
| SpeedEvil | on homepage - quicker than asking if things are down | 21:01 |
| Firebird | wow | 21:01 |
| crashanddie__ | only sometimes? | 21:01 |
| lcuk | EspadaV8, manchester lad? | 21:02 |
| EspadaV8 | mhmm | 21:02 |
| EspadaV8 | well, from manchester | 21:02 |
| EspadaV8 | living in newcastle now | 21:02 |
| EspadaV8 | (upon tyne) | 21:02 |
| * lcuk nods | 21:03 | |
| EspadaV8 | playing with the n900 :-) | 21:03 |
| lcuk | you ahvent updated your sebsitei n a while lol | 21:03 |
| RST38h | type n900,iphone into google trends | 21:03 |
| EspadaV8 | hahaha, no, not at all | 21:03 |
| lcuk | so how have you got an n900! | 21:03 |
| EspadaV8 | i never have anything interesting to write | 21:03 |
| EspadaV8 | kind of, not to keep :( | 21:04 |
| EspadaV8 | on loan | 21:04 |
| lcuk | its doing a publicity tour of the uk? | 21:04 |
| lcuk | or just you lol | 21:04 |
| EspadaV8 | lol | 21:04 |
| EspadaV8 | loaned from nokia through work | 21:04 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: not very great :/ | 21:05 |
| crashanddie__ | "Fraudsters are attempting to contact customers by telephone pretending to be from HSBC. The fraudsters are advising that there is a problem with your card and that a courier will come and collect the card and PIN." | 21:06 |
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| crashanddie__ | who the fuck is stupid enough to actually hand over the card and PIN? | 21:06 |
| crashanddie__ | If that actually works, I'm on the wrong side of the legal fence | 21:06 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: you're seriously asking this question? | 21:06 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: customers have - sort-of gotten the message on phishing. | 21:07 |
| SpeedEvil | But not very much. | 21:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Anything more innovative is very likely to succeed with a large fraction of people. | 21:07 |
| crashanddie__ | ridiculous | 21:08 |
| crashanddie__ | I'm working my ass off, implementing these fancy security systems for banks and stuff | 21:08 |
| crashanddie__ | but behind the scenes, they couldn't care less | 21:08 |
| SpeedEvil | http://trends.google.com/trends?q=n900%2Copenmoko&ctab=0&hl=en&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 | 21:08 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 21:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie__, well, duh. :P | 21:09 |
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| crashanddie__ | one of my customers, on one side, they're being very anal about the fact they want the PIN to be printed securely through an HSM directly connected to the printer | 21:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm with RBS. They give me a nice little smartcard reader. | 21:09 |
| crashanddie__ | so that basically, the PIN never gets decrypted. Even the spooling is actually encrypted | 21:09 |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, yup, I deployed that | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Can I use it with my chip and pin card to login? | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Of course not. | 21:10 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 21:10 | |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, sorry? | 21:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | I have to go through the stupid password/passphrase/... | 21:10 |
| crashanddie__ | oh, that, yeah, they rolled it out in eastern europe | 21:10 |
| crashanddie__ | it's coming in the UK pretty soon though | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - Uk | 21:11 |
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| crashanddie__ | But when that same customer I was talking about previously needs to do a migration of usernames and passwords, in order to go around a technical limitation, I'm saying I can't retrieve the passwords from our system, just like that | 21:11 |
| crashanddie__ | and they're like "But err, can't you just dump it to a text file?" | 21:11 |
| SpeedEvil | ... | 21:11 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 21:11 |
| RST38h | yea right? and print it out so that they can let their clerks type them back in? | 21:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Security requirements that just annoy the deliverer of stuff to them are important. | 21:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | But if they get in 'my' way, of course I'm never going to do anything bad, so just ignore it. | 21:12 |
| crashanddie__ | it's quite funny | 21:13 |
| SpeedEvil | It's insane that paypal has much better login security than my bank | 21:14 |
| SpeedEvil | (with the hardware token) | 21:14 |
| crashanddie__ | the smaller the bank, the bigger the security | 21:14 |
| crashanddie__ | the bigger the bank... | 21:14 |
| crashanddie__ | I get a meeting maker in my inbox for some customer, so, on the day (last week), we suit up, and head to the address, it's a big customer, like 8 digits big | 21:14 |
| crashanddie__ | we head to the desk, and say we're here to meet "Jack Foobar" (not actual name), he should be expecting us | 21:15 |
| mavhc | bank/credit cards are so insecure it's amazing they're legal, "sure, I'll give you my bank account number and that lets you take any amount of money you want from my account", or "sure, here's my card number, and the number on the back, and I'll type my password (pin) into your device" | 21:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Pity. Jack FooBar would be an awesome name | 21:16 |
| RST38h | mavhc: this is not actually true for either of my banks, and they are large | 21:16 |
| lardman | hmm, thought I'd got rid of this particular problem, the second time I try running my pipeline, there's no output displayed | 21:16 |
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| mavhc | that's not banks, that's shops | 21:16 |
| keesj | SpeedEvil: Interstring trends . I also tried n900,maemo that tell you somethiing about how many people know about maemo | 21:17 |
| SpeedEvil | keesj: yeah | 21:17 |
| crashanddie__ | receptionist asks us to sit down, 5 minutes later, a very busy girl, looking like another receptionist, arrives and asks us to follow her | 21:17 |
| crashanddie__ | we still hadn't given our names at this point | 21:17 |
| crashanddie__ | we go to the 7th floor, and we are asked to wait | 21:17 |
| mavhc | you give your card number to amazon, they take whatever they want out of your account | 21:17 |
| SpeedEvil | http://trends.google.com/trends?q=n900%2Cn97&ctab=0&hl=en&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 | 21:17 |
| crashanddie__ | another girl comes and picks us up, and brings us to this big broad door, opens it up, and lets us in, we stand in front of 15 guys in suits, all grey, in the middle of a meeting | 21:17 |
| SpeedEvil | pus it into context | 21:17 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie__: were you patted down for ak47s? | 21:17 |
| crashanddie__ | turns out the guy we were supposed to meet has the exact same name as the CFO or whatever | 21:18 |
| RST38h | also try maemo vs windows mobile | 21:18 |
| mavhc | trends != search traffic | 21:18 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: sweet | 21:18 |
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| keesj | The thing is that even my linux using colleages most of the time don't know what maemo is. It does not make it easyer to tell it's the os behind Nokia's first open source based phone | 21:19 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, the number on the back is not on the mag stripe / obtainable through chip | 21:19 |
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| df00z | Hm, is there a maemo emulator available? Im trying to decide between the N900 and the motorola cliq...the n900 has a lot better hardware but im worried about maemo :P | 21:20 |
| RST38h | Also try n900,n810,n800 - gives good idea of how Maemo marketing works | 21:20 |
| df00z | i had a sharp zaurus once.. | 21:20 |
| RST38h | df00z: N900. | 21:20 |
| df00z | is there a way to try Maemo on the PC | 21:20 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, the whole point of the chip is that it signs transactions digitally, usually through Challenge Response. You can't clone the information on the chip, regardless of having the PIN or not | 21:20 |
| RST38h | df00z: Motorola Cliq is a generic Android phone. You will be able to buy these by dozen in 2010 | 21:20 |
| df00z | like in virtualbox or something | 21:20 |
| RST38h | (or come up with a better alternative :)) | 21:20 |
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| keesj | given 770,n800,n810,n900 google should really be able to suggest a new name for the next gen model | 21:21 |
| df00z | im wondering if nokia is going to get an app store up | 21:21 |
| df00z | maemo select or w/e | 21:21 |
| RST38h | There is already a software repository. It mostly contains free apps | 21:21 |
| RST38h | May start including more paid apps later | 21:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Where do I find the scratchbox sources.lists? | 21:22 |
| mavhc | crashanddie__: my point is you just give out access to your bank account to all these shops for no real reason, and trust them to take what they said, and not steal/lose your details, and the bank to pay you back if they're evil | 21:22 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie__: of course if you copy the magstrip, you can then use it in countries which don't do chip and pin | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, nevermind. | 21:22 |
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| df00z | is there a maemo emulator | 21:22 |
| RST38h | df00z: http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ (this is for the pre-n900 devices, n900 will look similar) | 21:22 |
| df00z | hm | 21:22 |
| RST38h | There is a maemo emulator (made by hrw) but it requires a geek to set up | 21:22 |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, which are getting less and less possible, and usually fraud detection picks up on those -- or it's very easy to prove you weren't in that country at the time | 21:23 |
| df00z | well i run linux, and have used openembedded directly to port a few apps | 21:23 |
| df00z | lol | 21:23 |
| df00z | for my zaurus | 21:23 |
| RST38h | A moment then. | 21:23 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, you're not giving away any bank account information when paying with V/MC w/e | 21:23 |
| mavhc | what you should be doing is generating a blob that says "give $50 to the person who can rsa decrypt this blob, rsa signed, me" | 21:23 |
| df00z | if developing for maemo is anything like using openembedded im going to turn around and run the other direction :p | 21:23 |
| RST38h | df00z: http://www.slideshare.net/hrw/maemo-in-qemu-presentation | 21:23 |
| mavhc | you're missing the point | 21:24 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, I don't you understand how CC work | 21:24 |
| mavhc | I know how they work, badly | 21:24 |
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| * RST38h can't parse what crashanddie has said =) | 21:24 | |
| mavhc | that's why there's bank fraud | 21:24 |
| crashanddie__ | RST38h, Visa/MasterCard | 21:24 |
| df00z | rst38h: thanks, this makes perfect sense, i'll try it out | 21:25 |
| mavhc | scrap the whole system, start again with digital certificates | 21:25 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, I work in the industry, what is your relation/knowledge of the CAP standarD? | 21:25 |
| keesj | also guess from what country most searches come for the n900 :p | 21:25 |
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| mavhc | I'm not invested in keeping the current system going | 21:25 |
| RST38h | keesj: CHINA! | 21:25 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, so what exactly is the issue with the EMV/CAP standard then? | 21:25 |
| mavhc | it relies on trust | 21:26 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, what are the benefits of encryption over signature as it is done now? | 21:26 |
| mavhc | no replay attacks | 21:26 |
| keesj | Finland! | 21:26 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, EMV/CAP does not allow for replay | 21:26 |
| RST38h | But Russian Federation is the second. | 21:26 |
| RST38h | No idea what Vietnam is doing at the third place though | 21:26 |
| mavhc | so I can't copy down your credit card number and give myself more money? | 21:26 |
| crashanddie__ | no | 21:26 |
| mavhc | how does the bank know that amazon's not lying when it says I owe them $50? | 21:27 |
| crashanddie__ | multiple things | 21:27 |
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| crashanddie__ | first of all, in order to be able to use banking systems, companies pay quite a bit of money to have that privilege. And the amount they are allowed to claim/invoice is based on their agreements | 21:28 |
| mavhc | 2 things: 1. 2 months later I check my statement and tell the bank it's a lie, and 2. amazon don't want to lose their access to the bank system | 21:28 |
| mavhc | if I never gave amazon my card number it wouldn't be a problem | 21:29 |
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| crashanddie__ | mavhc, so your point is... ? | 21:29 |
| crashanddie__ | Give everyone soft certificates, so that all the keyloggers in the world can claim billions in less than a minute? | 21:29 |
| mavhc | that the system sucks and should be replaced by something that's actually more secure than reading my emails | 21:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | There are cards that would actually work | 21:30 |
| SpeedEvil | with keypads in them | 21:30 |
| crashanddie__ | lol, that's bollocks | 21:30 |
| SpeedEvil | but nobody has deployed them widespread yet | 21:30 |
| crashanddie__ | none of those protos actually have a chip in them | 21:30 |
| mavhc | that's why they have single use card numbers, because it's a problem | 21:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean in principle there is nothing stopping it being done. | 21:30 |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, actually, there's a lot of things stopping it | 21:30 |
| SpeedEvil | If someone'd drop 100k or so on getting production started | 21:31 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie__: yeah - reliabiloity forex. | 21:31 |
| mavhc | inertia's stopping it | 21:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Getting it to work for a week is trivial. | 21:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Getting it to work for 3 years - with 95% of cards surviving is hard | 21:31 |
| mavhc | it's the banks that are losing money due to the crappy system, they should really fix it | 21:31 |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, at the moment they can't miniaturise the system enough to comply the systems (size and thickness of the card), my company has invested over $600k in keypads in smartcards | 21:31 |
| crashanddie__ | s/the systems/with the standards/ | 21:32 |
| infobot | crashanddie__ meant: SpeedEvil, at the moment they can't miniaturise the system enough to comply with the standards (size and thickness of the card), my company has invested over $600k in keypads in smartcards | 21:32 |
| mavhc | that's so annoying | 21:32 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie__: I hadn't been following it that closely. I'm just trying to source some cryptographically secure system for my doorlock. Which is probably overkill. | 21:32 |
| mavhc | wireless transfer, triv | 21:32 |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, just take a smartcard with a signing certificate on it | 21:32 |
| lcuk | big fat padlock | 21:33 |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, or dual-channel smartcard | 21:33 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie__: yeah - I was hoping for something smaller, and wearable. | 21:33 |
| lcuk | key | 21:33 |
| crashanddie__ | SpeedEvil, a smartcard isn't wearable? | 21:33 |
| crashanddie__ | I wear mine 5 days a week :) | 21:33 |
| mavhc | a smart tie pin | 21:33 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, the amount of money banks or losing through fraud is negligeable | 21:34 |
| mavhc | you say this is a smartcard? I say why isn't it wearing a tux? | 21:34 |
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| mavhc | so only $billions? | 21:34 |
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| crashanddie__ | even less than that | 21:34 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: I mean wearable so that I can wear it 24*7 - so if I go outside in underpants and boots to close the greenhouse in the wind, I don't lock myself out | 21:34 |
| mavhc | how much are they spending on all these systems to predict when transactions are evil? | 21:34 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, embed it | 21:34 |
| lcuk | nether regions | 21:34 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, about $8 an hour in India | 21:34 |
| lcuk | then get arrested | 21:34 |
| lcuk | "I'm unlocking the door officer" | 21:34 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: I really just want a little linux system that'll fit in 0.5*1*1cm. | 21:35 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: that'd sort it. But that's not really trivial. | 21:35 |
| mavhc | I thought PAD stood for Pin Activated Door, but you don't have a pin | 21:35 |
| lcuk | gumstix will be close | 21:35 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, 90% of banks have the following system: any transaction that's flagged as suspicious (usually way out of the normal amount, different shop or location) gets put in a list. A bunch of people go through the list, in order of size (bigger transactions get priority) | 21:36 |
| lcuk | having maemo on your phone is good for most practical concerns | 21:36 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: two orders of magnitude larger. | 21:36 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: no phone :/ | 21:36 |
| lcuk | yeah but much much cooler | 21:36 |
| mavhc | yet a phone, then you'll have something worth stealing to make a door lock worthwhile | 21:36 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, in a country such as the UK, you get about 18000 "flagged" transactions per bank per day (big banks) | 21:36 |
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| lcuk | mavhc, your doorlock may be the only thing protecting your patented door lock | 21:36 |
| EspadaV8 | oooh, you're in manchester too lcuk | 21:37 |
| mavhc | we put the lock on the outside? nooooooooooooooooooooo | 21:37 |
| EspadaV8 | wait a minute... i have spoken to you before | 21:37 |
| lcuk | yeah EspadaV8 which was why i asked | 21:37 |
| * EspadaV8 shuts up | 21:37 | |
| EspadaV8 | ah, lol | 21:37 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, in other words: you're a troll, and you don't understand the system. | 21:37 |
| EspadaV8 | i was wondering where that came from | 21:38 |
| EspadaV8 | i assumed it was on my site when you mentioned that | 21:38 |
| lcuk | it was | 21:38 |
| lcuk | but i had a reason too lol | 21:38 |
| mavhc | the system is broken and will be replaced, obviously, just a matter of cost/benefit of course | 21:38 |
| * lcuk isnt any warmer | 21:38 | |
| EspadaV8 | where abouts? because you don't sound like a manc ;) | 21:39 |
| * lcuk ignotes the petrol | 21:39 | |
| lcuk | ignites too | 21:39 |
| lcuk | oldham | 21:39 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, the system won't be replaced. Banks are only implementing systems that allow them to blame the user | 21:39 |
| lcuk | banks have to be seen as doing something | 21:39 |
| EspadaV8 | ahhh | 21:39 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, (this is one of the main focuses of PIN. If your PIN is disclosed to a third party, most banks don't *have* to pay back any fraudulent transaction) | 21:39 |
| mavhc | and you can't prove that it wasn't | 21:40 |
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| EspadaV8 | from the south, near the airport | 21:40 |
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| mavhc | but of course the system will be replaced, it won't be the same in 100 years | 21:40 |
| * lcuk nods | 21:40 | |
| crashanddie__ | credit cards have been here for over a 100 years | 21:40 |
| SpeedEvil | There is an enormous amount of inertia | 21:40 |
| lcuk | more code to do | 21:40 |
| mavhc | if they try not paying me back they'll have publicity | 21:41 |
| crashanddie__ | mavhc, and they'll sue you for something and you'll go broke or to jail | 21:42 |
| doc|home | mavhc: banks? bad publicity? these days? | 21:42 |
| doc|home | :) | 21:42 |
| mavhc | it's ok, I invested all my money in a stash of n900s | 21:42 |
| doc|home | n900 bubble! | 21:43 |
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| EspadaV8 | a stash of them? | 21:43 |
| EspadaV8 | it's nice, but not 'stashable' nice | 21:44 |
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| lardman | If anyone fancies trying the barcode decoder (no lookups atm, but will output data to the screen) there's a lib + binary here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/mbarcode/ | 21:59 |
| lardman | N8x0 or N900, whatever you've got | 21:59 |
| lardman | but not 770 | 21:59 |
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| RST38h | lardman: Trying | 22:10 |
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| lardman | am just testing some of the basic weblookup stuff to add it back in | 22:10 |
| lardman | the db stuff probably doesn't work too well either | 22:10 |
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| lardman | but it should decode 1D, datamatrix and QR code barcodes | 22:11 |
| RST38h | For Tentacled's sake, lardman, change your web directory name to something sensible =) | 22:11 |
| lardman | and open a webbrowser if they contain an URL | 22:11 |
| RST38h | You are SCARING people :) | 22:11 |
| lardman | lol | 22:11 |
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| RST38h | What should I download? | 22:12 |
| EspadaV8 | bugger, just found out about the maemo summit thing | 22:12 |
| lardman | RST38h: N8x0? | 22:13 |
| lardman | RST38h: go to diablo, grab the mbarcode binary and the libdmtx library, install the library, and run the binary | 22:13 |
| RST38h | lardman: understood | 22:13 |
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| * GAN800 stabs Modest to death. | 22:15 | |
| RST38h | Just ignore it, use Claws | 22:15 |
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| * RST38h hopes Conversations guys finally integrate email into Conversations and kill Modest forever | 22:16 | |
| mavhc | why doesn't anyone like modest? | 22:16 |
| RST38h | mavhc: Unusable piece of crap. Should I go over the bugs or just give you bugzilla ids? | 22:18 |
| mavhc | I only use it to read incomming mail | 22:18 |
| RST38h | that is enough to suffer from it | 22:19 |
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| mavhc | only does 5 things: flashes upon incomming mail, displays incomming mail, marks it as read if read, uses a bit too much ram to check mail, still flashes if email has been read already elsewhere | 22:21 |
| zerojay | RST38h: I've never once had a problem with it dating back to N800 days. Works perfectly fine for me. | 22:22 |
| zerojay | Until Claws is anywhere near as integrated into the tablet as Modest, it's a non-starter for me. | 22:23 |
| GAN800 | It wants me to enter account details until I kill it with fire if there's even the slightest connection flub. | 22:24 |
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| zerojay | I think I've had that happen.. maybe 3 times in two weeks. | 22:24 |
| zerojay | But if I'm not using it, it just simply doesn't come up. | 22:25 |
| GAN800 | It doesn't even show a useful error. It's just, "Here are your account details." | 22:25 |
| zerojay | Yeah, true. That should be fixed. | 22:25 |
| GAN800 | It's been there since day 1 | 22:25 |
| zerojay | It did that in Maemo 4 also? | 22:26 |
| GAN800 | yes | 22:26 |
| zerojay | Wow... never saw it. | 22:26 |
| GAN800 | Lots and lots | 22:26 |
| GAN800 | killall modest was usually the first thing in my history. | 22:26 |
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| GAN800 | Next to /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart | 22:27 |
| RST38h | GAN: It shows the error but the banner times out | 22:27 |
| mavhc | never had that with gmail | 22:27 |
| zerojay | Strange. I've never had a problem with modest.. I've only had a problem with metalayer-crawler when I got a 16GB card and fixed it a day later. | 22:27 |
| RST38h | zerojay: you are probably not using it =) | 22:27 |
| zerojay | Never once needed to restart the browser daemon... wtf. | 22:27 |
| GAN800 | Lucky | 22:28 |
| zerojay | RST38h: In use for at least 12 hours daily, sorry, try again. :) | 22:28 |
| zerojay | Why would you need to restart the browser daemon for? | 22:28 |
| mavhc | need to restart browser if I kill too many browserd processes | 22:28 |
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| pupnik | just a few things fpr tear | 22:28 |
| GAN800 | Daemon crashes and the Updating... banner never goes away. | 22:28 |
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| zerojay | I only had that happen to me once after I had just reflashed. Never again. | 22:29 |
| GAN800 | Tear it like browsing the internet in a minefield. | 22:29 |
| zerojay | I tried it once. It crashed left and right for me. | 22:29 |
| GAN800 | You never know when you're going to step on one and crash. | 22:30 |
| zerojay | Browsing speed was better, but ugh. | 22:30 |
| * RST38h reminds everybody of his "kework browserd: bug tracker | 22:30 | |
| zerojay | And the lack of integration is a major strike for me. | 22:30 |
| GAN800 | At least most of MicroB's bugs don't end in crashes. | 22:30 |
| zerojay | Dunno, maybe the reason why I didn't run into a lot of these problems is that I kept my tablets relatively clean. | 22:31 |
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| zerojay | Clean meaning not installing a ton of programs, dealing more with the defaults, etc... | 22:31 |
| mavhc | annoying that I can't install apps on the sd card | 22:31 |
| GAN800 | I don't. But why else would you own one? ;) | 22:31 |
| * Jaffa sends Hermes 0.0.3 on its way to the autobuilder | 22:31 | |
| RST38h | mavhc: being fixed in fremantle | 22:31 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: I had an endless banner loop last night. | 22:32 |
| RST38h | see /opt discussion | 22:32 |
| GAN800 | mavhc, just boot from it. | 22:32 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: Indeed. Now fixed by having a proper summary view | 22:32 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: Nice. Looking forward to it. | 22:34 |
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| Jaffa | zerojay: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30863507@N02/3977261679/in/set-72157622487386764/ | 22:36 |
| Jaffa | What you get when you press the button is left as a surprise, though there may be an intermittent bug with showing newly updated photos | 22:37 |
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| mavhc | GAN800: yeah, I'll get around to that, bought a 16GB card | 22:37 |
| * GAN800 almost wishes he had a Facebook account for that. | 22:38 | |
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| Jaffa | GAN800: Can use Twitter too | 22:38 |
| * crashanddie_ nukes twitter and facebook | 22:38 | |
| * jaska hands crashanddie_ more warheads | 22:39 | |
| zerojay | My Twitter and Facebook friends are two completely separate sets of people with almost no overlap whatsoever. | 22:40 |
| zerojay | Anyways, Hermes is going to be really useful to me. | 22:42 |
| Vulcanis | twitter is people you feel like you're stalking | 22:42 |
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| Vulcanis | facebook is vague aquaintences | 22:42 |
| mavhc | facebook is for people who don't publish on the internet, who you know | 22:42 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: There seem to be some issues showing all the contact photos in the summary view, but - meh - it's 0.0.3 ;-) | 22:42 |
| mavhc | twitter is interactive rss | 22:42 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: That's okay. Take your time. :) | 22:42 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: I gave up on using OssoAbookContactView and just wrote my own :-) | 22:43 |
| lcuk | aww jaffa, sure that will be solved with time | 22:43 |
| zerojay | Yeah, I use Facebook for friends, coworkers.. Twitter's for everything else, pretty much. | 22:43 |
| lcuk | maybe spin the heads off as a standalone widget | 22:43 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: It's really taht bad? | 22:43 |
| lcuk | jaffa, pm me the details | 22:44 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: Lack of Python bindings meant playing with ctypes, which wasn't too bad except: a) it introduced a weirdness with showing the pixbufs which didn't exist when used via C; and b) I'd need a similar widget anyway for listing Facebook/Twitter friends for doing the manual mapping | 22:44 |
| crashanddie_ | Jaffa, why python? | 22:45 |
| crashanddie_ | and also, does your nickname come from the language you use at work? | 22:45 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie_: Don't want to faff with malloc, wanted an excuse to learn more Python, gives me easy way of fiddling with it on the train | 22:45 |
| lcuk | jaffa, spin it off deffo, if its one nice chunk that gives ppl a good feeling creating and hacking at | 22:46 |
| lcuk | all the better | 22:46 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie_: No, nickname comes from 1994 | 22:46 |
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| crashanddie_ | Jaffa, thought Java :) | 22:46 |
| crashanddie_ | 1994? | 22:46 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie_: indeed :) | 22:46 |
| crashanddie_ | Jaffa the hutt? | 22:46 |
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| lcuk | Jaffa the 10 minutes to nandos my ass | 22:47 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie_: Needed a name for a software brand, drew a nice graduated orange in RISC OS !Draw and decided on Jaffa Software. Then started going online in communities who'd know me from that. | 22:47 |
| Jaffa | Pfft. | 22:47 |
| Jaffa | Time for a cuppa. | 22:47 |
| lcuk | :D | 22:47 |
| crashanddie_ | btw, guys | 22:47 |
| crashanddie_ | I found the Nandos you were at | 22:47 |
| crashanddie_ | it's like on my daily route to work | 22:47 |
| lcuk | hint: we arent there any more | 22:47 |
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| crashanddie_ | funniest thing is, I cycled 20 yards further, and asked a guy "Where's the nearest Nando's?" | 22:48 |
| glass__ | nandos is nice | 22:48 |
| crashanddie_ | And he said "go over the bridge, take a left, near charing cross" | 22:48 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Love the icon display on packages | 22:48 |
| crashanddie_ | nobody fucking knows that place, it's amazing you found it, it's completely unknown | 22:48 |
| glass__ | hmm i suppose thats the same nandos i was at ~2 years ago :p | 22:49 |
| glass__ | (during smartphoneshow, some guys i hanged out with for the evening knew the place) | 22:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, just need some alternate row colors. | 22:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, is Extras-devel down again? | 22:52 |
| RST38h | has been on and off since yesterday | 22:52 |
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| lcuk | if i want a list of photos matching a certain tag. do i use tracker to get at it? | 23:02 |
| lcuk | is there a pre built api to select tags? | 23:03 |
| lcuk | or do i list all of them from tracker? | 23:03 |
| lcuk | and make my own | 23:03 |
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| * lcuk is thinking about on device content creation and i realised there is no obvious ui to retrieve that information other than the generic photo viewer | 23:04 | |
| lcuk | Jaffa, if you could bring up the photos tagged with your contact | 23:06 |
| lcuk | whilst you are speaking with them in conversations | 23:06 |
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| lcuk | it owuld be a cool widget | 23:06 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. With certain tags maybe on buttons. | 23:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Work, Play, Blackmail. | 23:06 |
| lcuk | haha | 23:07 |
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| Macer | well. just finished sending out the last of the life insurance stuff | 23:10 |
| Macer | what a pain | 23:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, ping? | 23:11 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: hi | 23:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, how's Shopper for Fremantle coming? | 23:12 |
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| lbt | I've had it working locally but I suspect have too much on to have it ready for the Summit | 23:12 |
| lbt | Mer/talks/new job | 23:13 |
| lbt | it looks really nice though ;) | 23:13 |
| EspadaV8 | bah, i need a new system :( | 23:16 |
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| zerojay | lbt: Let us know if you need some testing. | 23:16 |
| lbt | thanks :) | 23:16 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: screenshots of a Qt app on Fremantle needed ;-) | 23:42 |
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| lcuk | Mek, giveusascreenieofsomethingfromfremantleofiwillsnorereallyloudly | 23:43 |
| lcuk | ori^ | 23:43 |
| Mek | I don't have one available at the moment... my fremantle stuff is on my other laptop :P | 23:44 |
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| EspadaV8_L | is fremantle the codename for the OS on the N900? | 23:54 |
| frals | god that apple exec thread exploded while i was out | 23:54 |
| javispedro | frals: that tends to happen quite a bit in tmo with "certain" topics | 23:54 |
| frals | ya true | 23:54 |
| Jaffa | And there's nothing constructive in it. | 23:55 |
| Jaffa | I know. I've just endured reading it. | 23:55 |
| frals | like the myriad of crossposting in the asr/portrait mode threads that died out eventually :p | 23:55 |
| frals | ive read up to page 3, im assuming i dont miss any thing if i skip the last 5 pages ^^ | 23:55 |
| Jaffa | EspadaV8_L: Yes. Fremantle == Maemo 5. Diablo, Chinook, Bora, Gregale, Scirocco were earlier names | 23:55 |
| Jaffa | frals: Skip it. Trust me. | 23:55 |
| frals | :) | 23:56 |
| lbt | Jaffa: mmm maybe... | 23:56 |
| frals | oh appearently the russian guy claims to have a final version of the n900 now | 23:56 |
| javispedro | the russian guy is ... eldar? | 23:57 |
| ShadowJK | and harmattan is future name | 23:57 |
| javispedro | yet another 30 page topic in tmo then. | 23:57 |
| Jaffa | The Russian guy claims whatever he wants to make himself sound better. His whole treatment of the N900 - including just plain lying about having latest firmware - was pretty shocking | 23:57 |
| frals | yeah | 23:57 |
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