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| wiretapped | is the n900 hitting us stores this sunday?! | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| Robot101 | wiretapped: don't think so, mid-october? | 00:02 |
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| wiretapped | http://thenokiablog.com/2009/09/14/nokia-n900-available-september-27th/ | 00:13 |
| wiretapped | that seems to be the source of all the 27th reports | 00:13 |
| * wiretapped is ready | 00:13 | |
| AStorm | hehe | 00:13 |
| AStorm | what about PL retailers? | 00:14 |
| AStorm | any info on that? | 00:14 |
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| AStorm | or DE or other countries | 00:14 |
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| AStorm | so if everything goes well, it will hit stores ~1st october in the US | 00:15 |
| RST38h | AStorm: "never"? =) | 00:16 |
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| AStorm | RST38h: wrong, nokia.pl is offering it already | 00:17 |
| AStorm | in preorder | 00:17 |
| RST38h | ! | 00:17 |
| RST38h | Seriously though, unless it is an official Nokia blog, I doubt Sep 27 date | 00:17 |
| AStorm | yes, it's some "behind the curtains" info | 00:18 |
| javispedro | yes, seems to early. | 00:18 |
| AStorm | but it might be accurate | 00:18 |
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| AStorm | Sep 27 is to the DISTRIBUTORS. | 00:18 |
| AStorm | retailers have to order it from them. | 00:18 |
| AStorm | that takes time, so I expect some first shops to offer it on 1st if it's accurate | 00:18 |
| AStorm | + other delays | 00:19 |
| RST38h | it is still too early date to be true | 00:19 |
| AStorm | so it might be beggining of October, for example | 00:19 |
| AStorm | it's possible. | 00:19 |
| AStorm | they have the devices likely in full production | 00:19 |
| RST38h | hardware isn't the only thing that has to be ready | 00:20 |
| AStorm | yes, but software has to be dogfood-ready | 00:20 |
| AStorm | and it already is. | 00:20 |
| AStorm | improvements can be done later. | 00:20 |
| RST38h | not in mass market situation | 00:21 |
| AStorm | yes in mass market situation | 00:21 |
| AStorm | what has iPhone done there? | 00:21 |
| Corsac | the dates I've seen for fr are more like oct end | 00:21 |
| AStorm | shipped with a really unfinished version of software | 00:21 |
| Corsac | oct 22 for expansys | 00:21 |
| AStorm | Corsac: possible too. | 00:21 |
| Corsac | http://www.expansys-usa.com/d.aspx?i=186949 | 00:22 |
| AStorm | the trick is that they can ship english-language versions before localizations are done | 00:22 |
| AStorm | same likely with Finnish and maybe other nordic. | 00:23 |
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| RST38h | AStorm: comparisons to iphone are meaningless. | 00:23 |
| AStorm | *Finn? or maybe Suomi. w/e | 00:23 |
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| AStorm | RST38h: sure they are meaningful. It's the only phone on the market with major internet support for updates. | 00:23 |
| Corsac | internet support? | 00:23 |
| AStorm | uh, support for internet updates. | 00:23 |
| Corsac | don't you have to plug the iphone to your itunes? | 00:23 |
| AStorm | yes, you have. | 00:24 |
| AStorm | but it's easy enough | 00:24 |
| RST38h | He means the jailbreaking community ;)) | 00:24 |
| Corsac | hmhm ok, internet support apple-side | 00:24 |
| Corsac | not client-sid | 00:24 |
| AStorm | as opposed to flashing firmware on other phones | 00:24 |
| AStorm | and getting it via weird channels | 00:24 |
| Corsac | well, iphone updates are reflash, aren't they? | 00:25 |
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| AStorm | they are, but it's automated | 00:25 |
| AStorm | the updates try to retain files, apps and configuration | 00:26 |
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| AStorm | that's what I call support for updates. | 00:26 |
| AStorm | even plain availability of improved firmware is better than what other phones allow | 00:27 |
| AStorm | s/allow/offer/ | 00:27 |
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| infobot | AStorm meant: even plain availability of improved firmware is better than what other phones offer | 00:28 |
| javispedro | ~ping | 00:28 |
| infobot | ~pong | 00:28 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - and breaking existing functionality... | 00:28 |
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| AStorm | SpeedEvil: happens, yes. Better than having broken existing non-functionality usually. | 00:28 |
| ShadowJK | S60 phones has had flash-from-PC for years and years... and now with s60v5 and s60v3.2 also pure client-side updates without need for computer.. | 00:28 |
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| AStorm | ShadowJK: mmmm | 00:28 |
| AStorm | flash-from-pc with standard USB cable | 00:29 |
| AStorm | with included software to do that? | 00:29 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 00:29 |
| AStorm | hmm, neat. | 00:29 |
| AStorm | users still don't care too much for offline updates | 00:29 |
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| AStorm | that's why online update is so nice to have | 00:30 |
| AStorm | (like what S60v3.2, S60v5 and Maemo since Diablo something have) | 00:30 |
| AStorm | heck, the phone itself could remind you to check for updates | 00:30 |
| ShadowJK | If you buy a phone that is crippled by the operator though, the operator will first cripple/add bugs to the new firmware, or they just wont care and never give you a firmware upgrade | 00:31 |
| AStorm | yes, exactly | 00:31 |
| AStorm | the "tunings" | 00:31 |
| AStorm | instead of proper changes in configuration | 00:31 |
| AStorm | there should be either very good, update-friendly support for operator customizations | 00:32 |
| AStorm | or no operator customizations at all ;p | 00:32 |
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| AStorm | most operators could live with a few logos | 00:32 |
| AStorm | and a bunch of default settings | 00:32 |
| ShadowJK | http://europe.nokia.com/get-support-and-software/download-software/device-software-update/faq#faq4 | 00:32 |
| mavhc | if you can't push a bugfix for a SMS overflow security hole over the air you'd think you'd be screwed | 00:33 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: hey, you are still | 00:33 |
| AStorm | since people usually don't have data plans yet | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | I am still? | 00:33 |
| AStorm | missed. mavhc ^ | 00:33 |
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| AStorm | so you can't push in general | 00:34 |
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| AStorm | instead, you can remind the user to pull/check | 00:34 |
| ShadowJK | Without Internet connectivity you're pretty screwed, because operators are utterly uncooperative and wont lift a finger to push updates of any sort | 00:35 |
| AStorm | ayup | 00:35 |
| AStorm | they could do that... send a bunch of prepared broadcast messages for example | 00:35 |
| mavhc | and that's why you should root all their phones and use them to DDoS their own network | 00:35 |
| AStorm | mavhc: lol | 00:36 |
| AStorm | stupid use of a rooted phone | 00:36 |
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| AStorm | extra bonus if some ISP does push a rootkitbreaker | 00:38 |
| AStorm | which will work against unpatched phones | 00:38 |
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| AStorm | prompting the users to upgrade manually if auto is unsafe or impossible | 00:38 |
| AStorm | or push an antivirus via the hole ;p | 00:39 |
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| AStorm | (to catch all the dumb exploits that don't patch the hole themselves) | 00:39 |
| crashanddie_ | ShadowJK, unless the operator sold the handset and have control over it, also, if they risk losing money, they will push | 00:39 |
| AStorm | they don't risk losing money usually | 00:40 |
| AStorm | since blah blah legal print | 00:40 |
| ShadowJK | I wouldn't be surprised if instead of pushing a OTA update, they insisted each handset be sent to the manufacturer for update | 00:40 |
| AStorm | yep | 00:40 |
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| AStorm | which of course nobody will do | 00:41 |
| * ShadowJK just avoids locked/crippled phones | 00:41 | |
| * Mousey hands ShadowJK a palm pre | 00:41 | |
| AStorm | if a popular enough phone gets rooted in a funny way... they *will* lose money finally | 00:41 |
| AStorm | and have to think | 00:41 |
| crashanddie_ | in my day job I'm actually currently in the process of discussing the feasability of implementing an authentication platform for mobile devices that would allow operators to give users access to specific features -- one of the features mainly talked about would be allowing (forcing is more like the word) user access to a specific piece of information | 00:41 |
| crashanddie_ | this comes from the idea that the more advanced the devices become, the greater the risk of a widespread "attack" | 00:41 |
| Mousey | crashanddie_: goodluckwiththat | 00:41 |
| AStorm | until some large operator gets bit by that, it's unlikely to be implemented | 00:42 |
| ShadowJK | on recent s60 you get a popup when new firmware version is available :-) | 00:42 |
| ShadowJK | and on Maemo we get the orange blinking ! :D | 00:42 |
| crashanddie_ | from an authentication point of view, it's not necessarily hard -- it's the handset step that's pretty damn complicated (and out of scope for my work, I might add) | 00:42 |
| AStorm | *if* you have a data plan | 00:43 |
| AStorm | it should blink some annoying message if you haven't connected and checked for updates in X time. | 00:43 |
| crashanddie_ | AStorm, no, the whole point would be that you give users data access for such a feature | 00:43 |
| AStorm | you mean like minor trickle? | 00:43 |
| crashanddie_ | minor trickle? | 00:43 |
| AStorm | free packets? | 00:43 |
| crashanddie_ | yeah | 00:43 |
| crashanddie_ | only for specific updates or software pushes, though | 00:43 |
| AStorm | yep | 00:44 |
| AStorm | good enough | 00:44 |
| AStorm | but operator maintenance heavy | 00:44 |
| AStorm | they get to enable each update to be fetched in that way | 00:44 |
| crashanddie_ | well, it's a start | 00:44 |
| ShadowJK | I guess a separate APN for updates | 00:45 |
| AStorm | that is, until they get an automated tool that does that | 00:45 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: good idea, yes | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not a big fan of reinventing the wheel anyway | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | When operators stop living in the 20th century and step into the 21st century and give us the datapipe we want, we'll all be better off | 00:45 |
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| AStorm | yeah, when they stop caring about extra $$$... oh really? | 00:46 |
| AStorm | once that happens (a true unlimited data plan with enough bandwidth behind it to make it fast enough), there will be no way back ;p | 00:46 |
| ShadowJK | Well US will always be years behind others when they've got such good lock-ins to limit competition :) | 00:47 |
| ShadowJK | I think it has happened here | 00:47 |
| AStorm | what lock-ins? | 00:47 |
| AStorm | it's same in EU | 00:47 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: no, they dropped the "unlimited" part | 00:47 |
| ShadowJK | Well they've got different frequencies and different tech so it's difficult to make a phone that works on them all | 00:47 |
| AStorm | very very quickly | 00:47 |
| ShadowJK | they haven't dropped it here yet | 00:48 |
| AStorm | so it felt more like a marketing move to me | 00:48 |
| AStorm | yeah yeah | 00:48 |
| AStorm | check if you have no transfer limit | 00:48 |
| AStorm | unless the link is fairly slow... ;p | 00:48 |
| AStorm | or number of users low | 00:48 |
| ShadowJK | If I have, it's more than 30 gigs per month, which they claimed I did last month | 00:48 |
| AStorm | hehe | 00:48 |
| AStorm | consider what would happen if people started using those connections as main ones | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | People have already started doing that :) | 00:49 |
| AStorm | they likely won't anyway (since land-based are faster, lower latency and more reliable) | 00:49 |
| AStorm | yes, started | 00:49 |
| AStorm | the question is, will some kind of "boom" happen | 00:49 |
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| AStorm | whether really large cell-phone data transfers become common | 00:52 |
| AStorm | (as in, say, monthly total) | 00:52 |
| AStorm | 4G LTE is supposed to bring flat IP(v6?) architecture | 00:53 |
| AStorm | 3GPP LTE actually, or 4G | 00:54 |
| ShadowJK | hm, in 2008, 10% of the .fi population has mobile internet subscribtion... | 00:57 |
| ShadowJK | and 30% used "mobile internet data services" | 00:57 |
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| AStorm | finland is a small country and quite a special case | 01:03 |
| AStorm | oh btw.. | 01:03 |
| AStorm | "A data rate of at least 100 Mbit/s between any two points in the world," | 01:03 |
| AStorm | this reminds me of a quote from Space Odyssey | 01:04 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mermantle.png <- mer, hildon-desktop, mesa sw rendering | 01:04 |
| Stskeeps | x86 | 01:04 |
| ShadowJK | AStorm, special case how? :-) | 01:04 |
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| ShadowJK | maybe special in the way that we had competitive environment :/ | 01:04 |
| AStorm | (corrupted)"He knew how to do it, but didn't know what it was good for. He'd think of something" | 01:04 |
| AStorm | ;p | 01:04 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: exactly that | 01:05 |
| AStorm | and Finland has had mobile services with national range for how long in comparison? | 01:05 |
| ShadowJK | no national 3G coverage yet :D | 01:06 |
| AStorm | 3G is one thing, I'm talking about voice | 01:06 |
| AStorm | and then data (2G is ok there too) | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | since forever :) | 01:06 |
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| ShadowJK | Though it reached widespread use in mid 90s iirc | 01:07 |
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| AStorm | see, that's longer in most other countries I think | 01:07 |
| AStorm | *than in | 01:07 |
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| ShadowJK | Yeah, but the infrastructure has to be rebuilt every 5-10 years anyway :) | 01:09 |
| AStorm | no, most of it not. | 01:14 |
| AStorm | usually it's a partial update | 01:14 |
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| kpel | depends on the technology | 01:18 |
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| AStorm | 2G -> 3G -> 3G+ -> ...? | 01:21 |
| AStorm | or rather, 2G -> 2.5G -> 3G -> 3G+ -> ... | 01:21 |
| AStorm | yes, base stations have to be replaced | 01:21 |
| kpel | what exactly is 3g+? HSPA? HSPA+? | 01:21 |
| AStorm | HSPA and HSPA+ is mostly same | 01:22 |
| AStorm | but it is HSPA. | 01:22 |
| ShadowJK | gsm -> gprs -> edge -> 3g -> hsdpa (in about 7 generations) -> hsupa -> hsdpa+ | 01:22 |
| kpel | there are quite a few extra features in hspa+ afaik | 01:22 |
| ShadowJK | And the backbone capacity and links to the cells msut be upgraded to ethernet, and the capacity must be constantly upgraded when bandwidth is growing 10X per year on cellphone networks :) | 01:23 |
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| kpel | yes, it's a lot of trouble | 01:23 |
| AStorm | not that much really, more a question of money and how often you upgrade | 01:23 |
| ShadowJK | It's also a question of trouble :) | 01:24 |
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| AStorm | in a good modular design, the radio part would be replaced | 01:24 |
| AStorm | bandwidth can wait | 01:24 |
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| AStorm | since users won't upgrade their devices fast enough | 01:24 |
| AStorm | then you do a lumped bandwidth update | 01:24 |
| ShadowJK | I mean total bandwidth use, not individual user's maximum speed | 01:25 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: wow | 01:25 |
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| AStorm | total bandwidth is unimportant | 01:25 |
| AStorm | what is important is peak bandwidth | 01:25 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: glx? | 01:26 |
| AStorm | and maybe RMS bandwidth ;p | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: mesa on virtualbox | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | (sw render) | 01:26 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps, I mean, opengl instead of ogles. Can you test if the color swap bug appears? | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it's instead of ogles | 01:26 |
| ShadowJK | AStorm, peak to trough is only factor of 2 or so and year on year growth was a factor of 11 2006-2007, for example :) | 01:26 |
| AStorm | but what was the baseline for that growth? :p | 01:26 |
| AStorm | note that you can't extrapolate trends too far | 01:27 |
| ShadowJK | yeah it was about 5X 2007-2008 :) | 01:27 |
| AStorm | otherwise car sales would still be increasing 10% per year ;p | 01:27 |
| AStorm | (to 200%) | 01:27 |
| ShadowJK | 99% of traffic produced by computers not (smart)phones :) | 01:28 |
| AStorm | this is the useful modelling tool: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gompertz_curve | 01:28 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: but of course, very nice :) I hope the transitions are resolution independent :) | 01:28 |
| kpel | AStorm: out of curiosity, how many do you think are the differences between hspa and hspa+? | 01:30 |
| AStorm | MIMO support. | 01:30 |
| AStorm | (on the receiver side) | 01:31 |
| AStorm | some firmware upgrade on the operator side | 01:31 |
| kpel | downlink yes | 01:31 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: think transitions are copyrighted and we really dont want them | 01:31 |
| mavhc | the software is what changes the bandwidth used though, noone sends videos unless sending videos is easy | 01:31 |
| AStorm | mavhc: true, and even if it is easy, no one sends because there's not enough targets | 01:32 |
| AStorm | again, Gompertz curve ;p | 01:32 |
| kpel | AStorm: so if you add MIMO to 3GPP release 6 you have HSPA+? | 01:33 |
| AStorm | kpel: let me check | 01:33 |
| AStorm | MIMO needs communication between cells | 01:33 |
| AStorm | but that is likely already there | 01:33 |
| kpel | it adds overhead | 01:33 |
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| AStorm | you need 64QAM support. | 01:34 |
| AStorm | likely a firmware update on most well-designed sending devices | 01:34 |
| kpel | but i find it hard to believe that MIMO is the only difference | 01:34 |
| AStorm | MIMO and 64QAM. | 01:34 |
| AStorm | (new modulation) | 01:34 |
| kpel | at L1 maybe | 01:34 |
| AStorm | yes. | 01:34 |
| kpel | there are more features in the rest of the stack | 01:35 |
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| AStorm | nah. | 01:35 |
| AStorm | an *optional*, but reommended feature is IP support | 01:35 |
| AStorm | *recommended | 01:35 |
| AStorm | flat IP. | 01:35 |
| kpel | that's just one thing. There have been quite a few changes since rel6 | 01:36 |
| AStorm | minor really. | 01:36 |
| AStorm | software upgrades | 01:36 |
| kpel | well, maemo is software. is it a minor component? | 01:37 |
| AStorm | not *this* software | 01:37 |
| AStorm | receiver firmware | 01:37 |
| kpel | just because you make changes in the baseband it doesn't mean the changes are minor | 01:37 |
| AStorm | you can get partial HSPA+ with one receiver | 01:37 |
| AStorm | just supporting 64QAM | 01:37 |
| AStorm | that may or may not be easy. | 01:38 |
| AStorm | (depending on the receiver used) | 01:38 |
| pupnik64 | Maemo users who want to listen to lectures speeches might be interested in 'yatm' - can play back mp3/ogg/speex at faster and slower rates keeping the pitch steady. | 01:38 |
| AStorm | blah. | 01:39 |
| pupnik64 | maybe autobuilder it - console app | 01:39 |
| AStorm | may I point those users to sox? | 01:39 |
| AStorm | ;p | 01:39 |
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| AStorm | it has time scaling effects as well | 01:39 |
| AStorm | write a simple script and you have yatm | 01:39 |
| pupnik64 | no | 01:40 |
| AStorm | (unless yatm has some higher quality or DSP accelerated effect, that is) | 01:40 |
| javispedro | sox supports mp3? | 01:40 |
| AStorm | sure it does. | 01:40 |
| pupnik64 | you fail to grasp the essence of tai quan leep | 01:40 |
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| pupnik64 | approach so that you may learn | 01:41 |
| pupnik64 | <boot to the head> | 01:41 |
| AStorm | that's why I don't approach ;p | 01:41 |
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| pupnik64 | ever heard that comedy skit? | 01:41 |
| pupnik64 | very funny - 'boot to the head' | 01:41 |
| AStorm | the question is, why nobody used sox enough | 01:41 |
| pupnik64 | anyway the sound quality of resampling time-stretch sucks | 01:41 |
| AStorm | it even has fairly easy libsox | 01:41 |
| pupnik64 | what you want is to slowdown/speedup playback within the decoder | 01:42 |
| AStorm | pupnik64: resampling? it's not resampling | 01:42 |
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| pupnik64 | because that way you don't get stuttering effects | 01:42 |
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| AStorm | no, you can't simply "slowdown" playback in the decoder | 01:42 |
| AStorm | that would lower the pitch | 01:42 |
| pupnik64 | hahah | 01:42 |
| AStorm | you have to cut the signal into pieces then reconstruct missing data (somehow) | 01:42 |
| pupnik64 | wanna bet? | 01:42 |
| pupnik64 | how much? | 01:42 |
| AStorm | then repaste the pieces | 01:43 |
| pupnik64 | bet you whatever you want you're wrong | 01:43 |
| javispedro | yatm seems to cut some parts of the tune | 01:43 |
| AStorm | pupnik64: show me. | 01:43 |
| javispedro | at least a constant beat gets turned into an irregular one | 01:43 |
| AStorm | I mean, the code. | 01:43 |
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| pupnik64 | mp3 and ogg represent sound in the frequency domain | 01:43 |
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| AStorm | partially, yes | 01:43 |
| pupnik64 | in a certain slice of time, they store the various intensities of frequencies from 20 to 20khz | 01:43 |
| pupnik64 | or something like that | 01:43 |
| AStorm | you can't just take the windowed signal and move apart the windows | 01:44 |
| AStorm | you have to regenerate signal between them | 01:44 |
| AStorm | that's resampling. | 01:44 |
| AStorm | so you still get to time-stretch the signa. | 01:44 |
| AStorm | +l | 01:44 |
| pupnik64 | each snapshot in the frequency domain can be visualized as a series of sine wave oscillators at different intensities | 01:44 |
| pupnik64 | i.e. you have a whole series of sine wave oscillators from 20hz to 20khz | 01:44 |
| AStorm | I know how DFT works, thanks. | 01:44 |
| AStorm | :) | 01:45 |
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| AStorm | or MDCT actually. | 01:45 |
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| pupnik64 | if you let them 'ring on' you can let as much time go by as you want before adjusting them to the next frame's intensities | 01:45 |
| AStorm | or even windowed MDCT which is what MP3 does. | 01:45 |
| pupnik64 | and the pitches stay the same | 01:45 |
| AStorm | so you stretch window transitions | 01:45 |
| pupnik64 | right | 01:45 |
| AStorm | that will sound uneven and horrible. | 01:45 |
| AStorm | :) | 01:45 |
| javispedro | that may be what this thing does | 01:45 |
| pupnik64 | much better than resampling and pasting different echoes over each other | 01:46 |
| AStorm | it might work for noise-like signals... sometimes | 01:46 |
| AStorm | which means speech | 01:46 |
| AStorm | no no, not *over* each other | 01:46 |
| AStorm | between | 01:46 |
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| pupnik64 | no, you get a perfectly smooth transition from one frame to another | 01:46 |
| AStorm | the idea is that you don't really resample | 01:46 |
| pupnik64 | completely unlike chopping-up the wave into 30ms frames and overlapping them | 01:46 |
| javispedro | a constant beeping "accelerated" throught this tool sounds like random beeping | 01:46 |
| pupnik64 | that is what sox does | 01:46 |
| pupnik64 | and mplayer | 01:46 |
| AStorm | you do something like: take the samples you have, run a ZOH between (or some better interpolation), lowpass | 01:46 |
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| AStorm | uh, cut into pieces | 01:47 |
| AStorm | all samples. | 01:47 |
| AStorm | since MP3 is pre-cut... | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik64: It doesn't work right - you need to rewindow the signals. | 01:47 |
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| AStorm | you *could* use that knowledge to improve quality some | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik64: And it's more complex than that as you're screwing with it. | 01:47 |
| AStorm | not a whole lot though | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | But it's not something that's sane to put into each codec - it would be a lot of hairiness in each codec. | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | vs one filter. | 01:48 |
| pupnik64 | hmm | 01:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | You fundamentally cannot achieve a perfect pitch shifting. | 01:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | Information will always be lost. | 01:49 |
| AStorm | or missing. | 01:49 |
| AStorm | (and guessed, oh I mean interpolated) | 01:50 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 01:50 |
| AStorm | SoX tempo effect does a smart thing for shortening | 01:50 |
| SpeedEvil | If you're speeding up time, youhave to merge adjacent windows | 01:50 |
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| AStorm | in that it uses good overlap-based check | 01:50 |
| SpeedEvil | If you're slowing it down, you need to duplicate | 01:50 |
| SpeedEvil | You'll always have wierd phase effects though. | 01:50 |
| AStorm | picking right samples to merge using least squares fit | 01:50 |
| pupnik64 | an analogue would be zooming-in on a jpeg. because a function is describing the color curve, you get automatic interpolation | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 01:51 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: not really, esp. not for integer sample ratios | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: I mean for arbitrary ratios. | 01:51 |
| AStorm | arbitrary ratios won't have phase distortion either in a good filter design | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think you can avoid it in the multi-tone case | 01:52 |
| AStorm | but that doesn't change the fact that the data has been interpolated. | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure you can in the single tone. | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean phase distortion at the joins | 01:52 |
| ShadowJK | yatm doesn't slow down or speed up anything in the decoder. | 01:52 |
| AStorm | multi-tone is possible too, but interpolation is guess-work | 01:52 |
| AStorm | you can either copy a window of the signal (likely short) | 01:53 |
| AStorm | or interpolate | 01:53 |
| AStorm | both solutions are guesses. | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Unless it's a midi file. | 01:53 |
| AStorm | copy (+ lowpass) will work better for multi-tone likely | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | In which case you can do it right ;) | 01:53 |
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| AStorm | and sox algorithm is tuned for real music. | 01:55 |
| AStorm | for expected noise-like signals you can do extra noise restoration | 01:56 |
| AStorm | to remove some artifacts | 01:56 |
| * GeneralAntilles chuckles http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=333230&postcount=173 | 01:56 | |
| ShadowJK | One of the AAC modes encodes noise just by its statistical properties :) | 01:56 |
| AStorm | instead of copying, you'd guess the kind of noise to insert | 01:56 |
| AStorm | yes yes, you mean HE-AAC | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | probably | 01:56 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: wow | 01:56 |
| AStorm | Vorbis does something similar as well, but not patent-infringing | 01:57 |
| ShadowJK | Not infringing on declared AAC patents, anyway | 01:57 |
| AStorm | yes | 01:57 |
| AStorm | for speech, you can use an inverse version of speech codec | 01:58 |
| AStorm | like Speex algorithms for error correction | 01:58 |
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| AStorm | s/correction/masking/ | 01:58 |
| infobot | AStorm meant: like Speex algorithms for error masking | 01:58 |
| ShadowJK | At the end of the day though, you can't create more information than what is contained in the original signal :) | 01:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | Sure you can! | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Though it won't be meaningful. | 01:59 |
| javispedro | you lie. | 01:59 |
| javispedro | :) | 01:59 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, right :) | 01:59 |
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| ShadowJK | It's funny how many people are fooled by 320x240 resolution videos upsampled to HD, with noise added to make it look like very tiny pixels | 02:00 |
| sp3000 | hrm, why is "report abuse" louder than the actual comment text on, say, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/conboy/0.5.4 | 02:00 |
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| AStorm | SpeedEvil: it's guesswork anyway ;p | 02:01 |
| Firebird | hm, how can you tell if library packages have made it to extras[-testing]... /me is still waiting to push his packages to testing | 02:01 |
| AStorm | but it's better guesswork than dumb guesses made by interpolation | 02:01 |
| AStorm | or copy | 02:01 |
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| * SpeedEvil wonders if there is a library of pathalogical cases. | 02:03 | |
| SpeedEvil | For example - I have a meatloaf album that some of the tracks leap out and smack you in the face with compression artifacts if encoded in mp3 under 320k | 02:04 |
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| pupnik64 | heh | 02:05 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: MP3 is old. still, I bet LAME can do good work on it. | 02:05 |
| AStorm | good enough that you won't be able to ABX prove that you can hear it | 02:05 |
| pupnik64 | * perform filtering on decoded frame | 02:05 |
| AStorm | note "decoded" | 02:06 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 02:06 |
| sp3000 | bug 5190 | 02:07 |
| pupnik64 | looking at yatm.cc | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: that was with lame | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: admittedly an old version. | 02:07 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: tried with VBR yet? | 02:07 |
| lardman|home | what should ~isdigit("9") return? | 02:07 |
| AStorm | how old? | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | (it was running on overclocked ppro 160s0 | 02:07 |
| ShadowJK | Even the yatm website says it uses soundtouch | 02:07 |
| AStorm | 3.90.sth + is fairly good | 02:07 |
| AStorm | but later have many tunings | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | The album had some wierd 70s stereo effects | 02:07 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: oh, soundtouch is suck compared to SoX | 02:08 |
| AStorm | it should steal^Wborrow some algorithms | 02:08 |
| AStorm | or become a thin wrapper ;p | 02:08 |
| AStorm | although it might have a slight advantage in speed. | 02:08 |
| AStorm | yatm.cc exists? | 02:09 |
| ShadowJK | mplayer's scaletempo is "WSOLA technique with cross correlation", "inspired by SoundTouch" | 02:09 |
| AStorm | OpenDNS doesn't know about it. | 02:09 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: hehehe | 02:09 |
| AStorm | that was also what SoX previous algorithm did | 02:09 |
| pupnik64 | yeah mplayer tries to adjust the overlap window | 02:09 |
| pupnik64 | it ends up bunching-together consonant frames | 02:10 |
| AStorm | it fails miserably | 02:10 |
| AStorm | :) | 02:10 |
| ShadowJK | AStorm, filename not domain name | 02:10 |
| AStorm | ahh. | 02:10 |
| AStorm | drat. | 02:10 |
| AStorm | link please? | 02:10 |
| AStorm | since "yatm" is not googlable | 02:11 |
| javispedro | AStorm: you might be surprised. it is. | 02:11 |
| javispedro | first hit here. | 02:11 |
| AStorm | wtf? | 02:11 |
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| AStorm | it's that "Yet another time machine"? | 02:11 |
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| javispedro | yes. | 02:11 |
| AStorm | talk about a good name | 02:11 |
| AStorm | ;p | 02:11 |
| AStorm | or a good title | 02:12 |
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| zerojay | http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/make_cellular_data_stats_easier_for_users_to_find/ | 02:12 |
| zerojay | Make your voice heard, plz. | 02:12 |
| AStorm | :> | 02:12 |
| AStorm | maybe provide a panel plugin to show these? | 02:13 |
| lardman|home | argh, s/~/! | 02:13 |
| AStorm | or desktop or whatever it's called now | 02:13 |
| AStorm | dashboard? | 02:13 |
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| zerojay | Solution 1: Desktop Widget | 02:13 |
| AStorm | pupnik64: sox uses an empirically derived window size | 02:14 |
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| zerojay | Solution 2: Status Area menu | 02:14 |
| AStorm | ;) | 02:14 |
| javispedro | lardman|home: !isdigit("9") will return a non zero value, since "9" is a string ;) | 02:14 |
| ShadowJK | What about Settings->connection manager ;-D | 02:14 |
| sp3000 | oh | 02:14 |
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| javispedro | and isdigit takes chars. | 02:14 |
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| javispedro | so it will also emit a compiler warning. | 02:14 |
| sp3000 | so when you're rating an app, it makes a net call without any feedback | 02:14 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: not convenient enough | 02:15 |
| zerojay | ShadowJK: Far too buried. | 02:15 |
| sp3000 | so I was sorta clicking at it thinking it's not working | 02:15 |
| AStorm | hehe | 02:15 |
| sp3000 | wth | 02:15 |
| lardman|home | javispedro: that's what I thought, but I was thinking in a different lang, hence the s/~/! bit | 02:15 |
| sp3000 | I thumbed up this app twice?! | 02:15 |
| lbt | ShadowJK: mean anything ? : http://pastebin.com/fbe059a5 | 02:16 |
| javispedro | ah, python? | 02:16 |
| AStorm | sp3000: bad server is bad. it should be fixed to drop replayed votes | 02:16 |
| ShadowJK | on Symbian it's menu -> control panel -> Connectivity -> Connectivity Manager -> Active data connections, or: menu -> log -> packet data | 02:16 |
| AStorm | maybe by doing it like real people - tacking a random-generated id | 02:16 |
| sp3000 | AStorm: well, or it should be just counting people, not votes | 02:16 |
| AStorm | in the form. | 02:16 |
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| sp3000 | since it's showing people anyway | 02:16 |
| sp3000 | so now I get listed twice :) | 02:17 |
| AStorm | he :) | 02:17 |
| * sp3000 feels special | 02:17 | |
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| sp3000 | I liked how it was showing me "9 out of 10" with "10 up 0 down" before I reloaded | 02:17 |
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| lardman|home | javispedro: MATLAB | 02:18 |
| AStorm | I like votes with stdev shown | 02:18 |
| AStorm | :) | 02:18 |
| AStorm | good for esp. larger number of ratings | 02:19 |
| AStorm | nice measure of polarization as well | 02:19 |
| zerojay | ShadowJK: Yes, again, that's far too buried especially on a device where you're bound to use more data naturally. | 02:19 |
| AStorm | menu->log->packet data is almost good | 02:20 |
| ShadowJK | On the other hand, this is the kind of device where its entire design purpose is defeated by not having always-on connectivity, so it'd be kinda silly to not have unmetered plan ;) | 02:20 |
| AStorm | albeit a panel plugin would be nice for people who have to track usage all the time | 02:20 |
| AStorm | or maybe show it in browser? | 02:20 |
| AStorm | I don't really know the Maemo 5 UI, other than it looks cool | 02:21 |
| AStorm | don't know what is possible there | 02:22 |
| AStorm | pupnik64: soundtouch has one plus - all of its effects are real-time tunable | 02:23 |
| zerojay | ShadowJK: Except that almost no parts of the world have unmetered plans so... | 02:23 |
| AStorm | yeah, like 1GB | 02:23 |
| AStorm | or even <shudder /> prepaid | 02:24 |
| AStorm | where your connection can just end. | 02:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | A spike meter would be nice. | 02:25 |
| AStorm | (in subscription data plans, it usually only downgrades to very low speed - here it's 64 kbps) | 02:25 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: ? | 02:25 |
| SpeedEvil | 'don't bother me if I'm using the device and datarate is under 10k/s or a total of 1M/session' | 02:25 |
| SpeedEvil | But I want to know right away if something uses 400K/s or 2M | 02:25 |
| AStorm | aah | 02:25 |
| AStorm | you mean like ntop? | 02:26 |
| AStorm | :) | 02:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | Stupid silent flash animation ate 20M of my 3G quota the other night | 02:26 |
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| AStorm | http://www.ntop.org/overview.html - this is how ntop looks like | 02:27 |
| AStorm | but a variant optimized for tiny devices | 02:28 |
| AStorm | hmmh | 02:28 |
| AStorm | spike detector is fairly trivial | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - very. | 02:28 |
| AStorm | but it won't discern loading a website from loading a flash movie in short bursts | 02:28 |
| AStorm | good enough though, maybe someone can make a MicroB extension like that | 02:29 |
| AStorm | I can't write XUL/JS that well | 02:29 |
| AStorm | what's more, MicroB has enough info to know that it's e.g. flash dling a lot of data | 02:30 |
| ShadowJK | I always surf with images and flash off when on metered :) | 02:30 |
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| zerojay | Might as well just be on a standard cell phone then. | 02:31 |
| AStorm | there's metered and metered | 02:31 |
| ShadowJK | Nah, on opera mini I just set image quality to lowest :) | 02:31 |
| AStorm | metered comes in three kinds: 1) you pay more 2) link breaks 3) link degrades | 02:31 |
| * ShadowJK used to have 20meg monthly quota :D | 02:31 | |
| ShadowJK | of the "you pay more" variety | 02:31 |
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| AStorm | I am "lucky" to have the last variety | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | then they came out with the 100meg package, that was awesome | 02:32 |
| AStorm | so can e.g. use IRC and view websites on slow link | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | and then the 64kbps unmetered :D | 02:32 |
| AStorm | and even maybe check mail ;p | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | now I have 2Meg unmetered | 02:33 |
| AStorm | yeah, 64kbps is likely similar to a width of normal phone call | 02:33 |
| ShadowJK | and live outside 3G coverage area :/ | 02:33 |
| AStorm | hehe. | 02:33 |
| ShadowJK | I used to not even get edge here | 02:33 |
| AStorm | that's why they could give 2M unmetered | 02:33 |
| AStorm | since few people will have access anyway ;p | 02:33 |
| ShadowJK | Except there was one base station 10km away with edge. If I covered the phone with hands, the signal would degrade and it would have to switch to another cell | 02:33 |
| ShadowJK | and if I was lucky it picked the one with edge | 02:34 |
| AStorm | huh. | 02:34 |
| AStorm | I had a funny problem once, in the mountains | 02:34 |
| AStorm | the phone saw 2 cells with similar signal | 02:34 |
| AStorm | and switched between them | 02:34 |
| AStorm | since it's HSPA and not HSPA+ (which sports cell coordination), the connection broke on each switch | 02:35 |
| AStorm | just a funny place with almost equal signal from both cells | 02:35 |
| AStorm | moved some meters down, all was good ;p | 02:36 |
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| ShadowJK | hm | 02:36 |
| AStorm | (actually, it was "almost equal with some very narrow band of low signal between the coverages") | 02:37 |
| AStorm | dumb phone tried to switch cell each time it got that low signal | 02:37 |
| ShadowJK | When I drive to city, I can start downloading a file when at home (edge), drive into gprs-only, back into edge, into 3g, into hspdpa (not +), and reverse order on the way home, without the download breaking | 02:38 |
| AStorm | yes, that usually works | 02:38 |
| AStorm | except when the phone tries to switch net every 5 packets | 02:39 |
| AStorm | then TCP throttles connection to hell | 02:39 |
| AStorm | ;p | 02:39 |
| zerojay | Kind of sad having a device this good and just being on EDGE. | 02:39 |
| ShadowJK | web browsing suffers a bit | 02:39 |
| AStorm | hint for Nokia: use TCP Veno policy | 02:40 |
| AStorm | it's in mainline kernel | 02:40 |
| AStorm | net.ipv4.tcp_congestion_control = veno | 02:40 |
| AStorm | this sysctl. | 02:40 |
| ShadowJK | reno and cubic available on n810 | 02:41 |
| ShadowJK | doesnt the sending side need this too.. | 02:41 |
| AStorm | no. | 02:41 |
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| AStorm | I mean, for maximum gain, why not. | 02:42 |
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| zerojay | what the fuck... something used 30+MB in the last two hours since I reset the data counters. | 02:42 |
| AStorm | :P | 02:42 |
| zerojay | And I've been on wifi almost the entire time. | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | You need a spike meter! :/ | 02:43 |
| zerojay | Even just ntop would be nice. | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | I've made somethign that goes 'bing' for my 3G connection - when it's moved a me | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | g | 02:43 |
| javispedro | i personally won't use the n900 in any non-flat plan. | 02:44 |
| AStorm | http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.2.1469 | 02:44 |
| AStorm | that's the Veno paper | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | 'Flat' plans here all have fair uses | 02:44 |
| AStorm | there have been some extra enhancements to Veno too | 02:44 |
| lardman|home | zerojay: you leave it connected all the time? | 02:44 |
| javispedro | A salient feature of Veno is that it modifies only the sender-side protocol of Reno without changing the receiver-side protocol stack. | 02:44 |
| lardman|home | I guess that's the idea mind you | 02:45 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: agreed. which is why that means "no cell data" for me. | 02:45 |
| AStorm | javispedro: yes, so you gain regardless of the ISP. | 02:46 |
| javispedro | (actually, I then steal the bandwidth from my alma mater ;) ) | 02:46 |
| AStorm | it will be best if your ISP uses a mobile-friendly congestion protocol as well | 02:46 |
| javispedro | i'm not used to tcp parlance. "sender" as in sender (who emits data) or "sender" as in host? | 02:48 |
| AStorm | sender is the side that sends packets. ;p | 02:48 |
| AStorm | which means, the one who uploads. | 02:48 |
| AStorm | still, TCP is session-based, so you gain regardless | 02:48 |
| AStorm | since two-way communication is always necessary | 02:49 |
| AStorm | at least for ACKs | 02:49 |
| javispedro | so you gain "few". | 02:49 |
| javispedro | it's the remote host the one who would have to enable Veno | 02:50 |
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| AStorm | you gain still, and that is good | 02:50 |
| AStorm | esp. you gain when actually uploading data | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | damn | 02:50 |
| * SpeedEvil tries to work out when he tried to implement this. | 02:51 | |
| SpeedEvil | 1992? | 02:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, more good fun http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=333270#post333270 | 02:51 |
| AStorm | as a bonus, your TCP flow will compete favorably with other TCP flows in the network | 02:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | I LOVE that thread. :D | 02:51 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: implement what? :) | 02:51 |
| javispedro | AStorm: your _upload_ flow. | 02:51 |
| SpeedEvil | My connection to my favourite mud sucked in 1992. It had lots of packet loss - 25% or so | 02:51 |
| SpeedEvil | I simply hacked in a linear backoff not exponential | 02:52 |
| AStorm | javispedro: which means your download too | 02:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Or linear after 3s - I forgot. | 02:52 |
| AStorm | if your upload flow is dead, you can't send ACKS | 02:52 |
| AStorm | *ACKs | 02:52 |
| AStorm | so the server will retransmit | 02:52 |
| javispedro | what use is a 100% fine upload flow in such a congested network? | 02:52 |
| AStorm | ... | 02:53 |
| javispedro | download will suck either way | 02:53 |
| AStorm | there's suck and suck | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | it's not congestion | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | it's packet loss due to bit errors | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Different things. | 02:53 |
| AStorm | or other errors, yes | 02:53 |
| javispedro | but same as they affect both upload and download. | 02:53 |
| AStorm | not same | 02:53 |
| javispedro | (in this concrete example) | 02:53 |
| AStorm | Reno will cut your upload rate on error | 02:53 |
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| javispedro | on upload error. | 02:53 |
| AStorm | so the ACKs won't reach the target in time | 02:53 |
| AStorm | so your download speed drops | 02:53 |
| javispedro | k | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Packet loss of >30% or so and you're guaranteed exponential backoff to silly proportions some of the time | 02:54 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: even a burst of total packet loss | 02:54 |
| javispedro | and I agree with that. | 02:54 |
| AStorm | and that tends to happen on cell nets | 02:54 |
| javispedro | but I don't see why enabling Veno on a host will magically help its download speeds in an apreciable way | 02:55 |
| javispedro | so yes. acks will now flow. but there's still 30% packet loss. the receive window will suck., | 02:55 |
| AStorm | yes, if you use Reno | 02:56 |
| AStorm | if you use Veno, it shouldn't scale the window down | 02:56 |
| javispedro | if the other end uses Reno. | 02:56 |
| AStorm | true, their windows will scale down | 02:56 |
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| AStorm | it's still a major improvement | 02:56 |
| javispedro | well, I don't have benchmarks to rebate that :) | 02:57 |
| AStorm | since as your ACK reaches the destination, their windows will quickly scale up | 02:57 |
| AStorm | this paper does have benchmarks. | 02:57 |
| zerojay | lardman|home: When I'm home, I leave it connected all the time to my home wifi. When I'm out, I leave it connected to my cellular data. That doesn't mean I wanted some 30MB download to happen though. | 02:57 |
| lardman|home | no, fair enough | 02:57 |
| lardman|home | C question, I would like to do something like this: if(data[0]=="9"){} | 02:58 |
| lardman|home | it won't work, why not? | 02:58 |
| javispedro | AStorm: then again, we're talking about noise. ACK packets are small. | 02:58 |
| javispedro | (or should be :P) | 02:58 |
| lardman|home | well presumably as the "9 is tucked away somewhere as a pointer to some data" | 02:58 |
| AStorm | lardman|home: what type is data[0]? | 02:58 |
| lardman|home | char* | 02:58 |
| lardman|home | it's a string | 02:58 |
| AStorm | data[0]? | 02:58 |
| lardman|home | "9" | 02:58 |
| AStorm | maybe data is a string | 02:58 |
| lardman|home | oh, well that's a char then | 02:59 |
| AStorm | otherwise, use strcmp | 02:59 |
| AStorm | then data[0] == '9' | 02:59 |
| AStorm | compare char to char :) | 02:59 |
| lardman|home | ah, single quotes | 02:59 |
| AStorm | not char to string | 02:59 |
| lardman|home | they are different? | 02:59 |
| AStorm | sure yeah (in C) | 02:59 |
| lardman|home | obviously | 02:59 |
| javispedro | (char to int actually :P ) | 02:59 |
| lardman|home | yeah, ok, was wondering if it was a quote thing | 02:59 |
| lardman|home | thanks | 02:59 |
| AStorm | javispedro: char to const char*. fair? | 03:00 |
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| AStorm | ;p | 03:00 |
| AStorm | or rather, const char const * | 03:00 |
| AStorm | ;p | 03:00 |
| javispedro | AStorm: char to const char * ("9"), but char to int ('9') | 03:00 |
| AStorm | lardman|home: I recommend -Wall | 03:00 |
| AStorm | javispedro: no, '9' is char. | 03:01 |
| AStorm | 9 is int. | 03:01 |
| lardman|home | ok | 03:01 |
| javispedro | not in C. | 03:01 |
| AStorm | (int)'9' is int. | 03:01 |
| lardman|home | anyway, time for bed, cheers for the help | 03:01 |
| AStorm | char is convertible to int. | 03:01 |
| lardman|home | I'll leave you all to "discuss" :) | 03:01 |
| lardman|home | night | 03:01 |
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| zerojay | Does ntop allow you to see bandwidth use by app? | 03:01 |
| AStorm | zerojay: not sure, I'd have to install it again on the new machine | 03:02 |
| AStorm | but I think it is possible | 03:02 |
| javispedro | AStorm: <nitpick mode>'c' is int according to the spec</nitpick> | 03:02 |
| AStorm | javispedro: orly? | 03:02 |
| javispedro | sizeof('c') = 4. | 03:02 |
| AStorm | funky | 03:02 |
| javispedro | ;) | 03:02 |
| AStorm | so I can do like, memcpy(charvar, intvar, sizeof(int)) | 03:03 |
| AStorm | total evil | 03:03 |
| javispedro | char is char. it's just that '' constntats are ints. | 03:03 |
| AStorm | memcpy(&charvar, &intvar, sizeof(int)) | 03:03 |
| AStorm | hmmmh | 03:03 |
| AStorm | funny. | 03:03 |
| AStorm | so that you can write wide characters? | 03:03 |
| javispedro | palmos used to abuse them | 03:03 |
| AStorm | no, that would be '9'L | 03:03 |
| javispedro | 'appl' was the magic 32 bit code for application db type | 03:04 |
| AStorm | hahaha | 03:04 |
| AStorm | gcc will warn about this | 03:04 |
| AStorm | I'll better check the spec | 03:04 |
| AStorm | maybe this has been standarized in C99 or something | 03:04 |
| snuxoll | every time I see 'appl' I think of .app bundles from NeXT and OS X | 03:04 |
| javispedro | AStorm: actually, it's prrety old. | 03:04 |
| AStorm | but is it really standard? | 03:05 |
| javispedro | I don't remember right now what C++ did | 03:05 |
| javispedro | I think so. | 03:05 |
| AStorm | hehe | 03:06 |
| AStorm | some language "feature" | 03:06 |
| AStorm | C++89 differs there | 03:06 |
| AStorm | C++98 even ;p | 03:07 |
| snuxoll | C++ "features" heh | 03:07 |
| javispedro | wow it's true | 03:08 |
| AStorm | well, it's logical that a character constant is of the same size as character variable | 03:08 |
| javispedro | they diverge on that point. | 03:08 |
| javispedro | sizeof('a') is 1 in g++ | 03:08 |
| javispedro | i see that g++ emits a warning upon 'appl' but then emits an int rvalue either way. | 03:09 |
| AStorm | yes. | 03:09 |
| AStorm | GNU extension. | 03:09 |
| AStorm | I wonder if C++0x changed this behavior | 03:09 |
| AStorm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B0x#New_string_literals | 03:10 |
| AStorm | yes, it did | 03:10 |
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| AStorm | hmm, not entirely sure | 03:12 |
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| javispedro | those are null terminated | 03:13 |
| AStorm | the new ones might be u'\uxxxx' U'\Uxxxxxxxx' | 03:13 |
| AStorm | or w/o the u, wiki is not clear about that | 03:13 |
| javispedro | c++0x is sick | 03:13 |
| AStorm | "For the purpose of enhancing support for Unicode in C++ compilers, the definition of the type char has been modified to be both at least the size necessary to store an eight-bit coding of UTF-8 and large enough to contain any member of the compiler's basic execution character set." | 03:14 |
| AStorm | no, it's great. not sick at all. | 03:14 |
| javispedro | it's great. but too big. | 03:14 |
| AStorm | heh, compare with, say, Java. | 03:15 |
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| AStorm | see what is big. | 03:15 |
| AStorm | ;p | 03:15 |
| javispedro | Java actually has few features. | 03:15 |
| javispedro | from a language point of view. | 03:15 |
| AStorm | fewer, not few. and far less powerful features. | 03:15 |
| javispedro | but I see that as a good thing. | 03:15 |
| tush726 | I am trying to install maemo on fedora 10. I completed the scratchbox installation | 03:15 |
| tush726 | I am getting the error close all scratchbox sessions | 03:16 |
| tush726 | while trying to install the SDK | 03:16 |
| AStorm | hmmh | 03:16 |
| AStorm | javispedro: really, not many more features. | 03:16 |
| tush726 | and also that the user assigned to maemo is not a sudoers file | 03:16 |
| AStorm | tush726: blame fedora scratchbox package maybe? | 03:16 |
| AStorm | yes, it's tricky to build that environment from scratch (pun intended) | 03:17 |
| tush726 | i installed scratchbox from the script provided on the website | 03:17 |
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| AStorm | hmmh, that should've worked | 03:18 |
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| AStorm | could you pastebin the error message? | 03:19 |
| AStorm | javispedro: some features are, yes, meh and rarely used | 03:19 |
| AStorm | but many are extremely good | 03:19 |
| javispedro | but I fear the day when someone uses one of the darker features. | 03:20 |
| javispedro | much like I'd fear a perl guru ;) | 03:20 |
| javispedro | (stereotype, yes I know. sorry :P ) | 03:20 |
| AStorm | javispedro: like what darker features? | 03:21 |
| AStorm | I fear people who say they're writing C++, but don't really know templates | 03:21 |
| AStorm | (including funny features like SFINAE) | 03:21 |
| tush726 | http://pastebin.com/d4e1c6025 | 03:22 |
| javispedro | I fear people abusing templates. In fact, from what I read, C++0x plans to fix that somehow with constexprs and such. | 03:22 |
| AStorm | abusing? ;> | 03:22 |
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| AStorm | yes, at times templates have been "abused" to implement various language extensions | 03:23 |
| AStorm | it's not really abuse if done well | 03:23 |
| AStorm | what is needed is better error reporting when they're in use | 03:23 |
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| tush726 | anything i could do ? | 03:25 |
| javispedro | sometimes I just enjoy the verboseness of java .... :) | 03:25 |
| AStorm | verboseness and piling hacks for missing generic programming | 03:26 |
| AStorm | or rather ILike IExtra INterface IMixins IN IJava ISix | 03:27 |
| AStorm | ;P | 03:27 |
| javispedro | that would be C# | 03:27 |
| AStorm | that is Java 6 as well, unless they did it wrong | 03:27 |
| AStorm | let me check | 03:27 |
| AStorm | I got rusty on Java recent features | 03:28 |
| tush726 | any help? http://pastebin.com/d4e1c6025 only two error messages | 03:29 |
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| AStorm | javispedro: ah, that was Java 5 feature :) | 03:33 |
| AStorm | and C# version of generics is more powerful | 03:33 |
| javispedro | I guess you mean annotations? | 03:34 |
| javispedro | (by mixins, I say) | 03:34 |
| javispedro | either way java never introduced the I prefix in their guidelines iirc. | 03:34 |
| tush726 | SDK installation output till wherever i reached http://pastebin.com/d2281fc0c | 03:35 |
| * javispedro wonders if that script every worked in fedora, seeing it calls dpkg --compare-versions | 03:35 | |
| javispedro | s/every/ever | 03:36 |
| AStorm | javispedro: no, generics. It means an object that can work as x different others. | 03:36 |
| AStorm | w/o inheritance. | 03:36 |
| AStorm | in C++ (not C++0x), this is fairly tricky to do | 03:36 |
| javispedro | (" ILike IExtra INterface IMixins IN IJava ISix") | 03:36 |
| AStorm | class GenericAppliance : not derived from List but works as one. | 03:37 |
| AStorm | is that even possible in Java now? ;p | 03:37 |
| AStorm | I bet not. | 03:37 |
| javispedro | aaaa | 03:37 |
| javispedro | you mean Interfaces! | 03:37 |
| tush726 | has anyone tried a fedora installation for the SDK? | 03:37 |
| AStorm | javispedro: not exactly | 03:37 |
| AStorm | I mean classes that implement many interfaces at once | 03:38 |
| javispedro | generics is that List<String> stuff in java parlance | 03:38 |
| AStorm | in other words, mixins | 03:38 |
| javispedro | implementing multiple interfaces has been since the first days I think | 03:38 |
| AStorm | yes, and it doesn't interact with interfaces, so I can't have a class looking like a generic List<foo> | 03:38 |
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| AStorm | so the usual workaround is not using generics there, but generics based on interfaces | 03:40 |
| AStorm | like, IList<foo> foo = bar | 03:41 |
| AStorm | that is not possible. | 03:41 |
| AStorm | we have to thank type erasure for that. | 03:41 |
| Firebird | templates? | 03:41 |
| javispedro | i don't follow yo | 03:41 |
| javispedro | you say I can't make class A implement List<B> ? | 03:42 |
| javispedro | iirc I can. | 03:42 |
| AStorm | yes, you can't. | 03:42 |
| AStorm | since List<B> will be erased to List | 03:42 |
| javispedro | yes. and? | 03:42 |
| javispedro | that will happen at code generation time. | 03:42 |
| AStorm | so I can do IList<int> blah = yourlist (which is List<foo>) | 03:42 |
| javispedro | the compiler won't let you. | 03:43 |
| AStorm | generics don't interact well with interfaces | 03:43 |
| javispedro | unless you're in some weird compatibility mode. | 03:43 |
| AStorm | it won't let me implement List<foo>, List<bar>, List<baz> | 03:43 |
| AStorm | :) | 03:44 |
| AStorm | check it. | 03:44 |
| javispedro | i'm not sure about that either. | 03:44 |
| AStorm | hmm. ok, right, bug of Java 5. Fixed in Java 6. | 03:45 |
| AStorm | ;p | 03:45 |
| * AStorm feels ashamed. | 03:45 | |
| javispedro | well, if it was a bug, then you are partially right ;) | 03:45 |
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| AStorm | let's call it a misfeature | 03:46 |
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| javispedro | actually | 03:50 |
| javispedro | do you know the bug#? | 03:50 |
| javispedro | because it seems you're right | 03:50 |
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| javispedro | AStorm^^ | 03:50 |
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| spencer_ | anyone knows where i can find a good tutorial on how to use libtools/autoconf/automake on sb?? | 03:51 |
| javispedro | but either way I don't see what type erasure has to do with that. in fact, to get over that absurd limitation I could just create an extra class C extending B. heh. I guess those are the "hacks" you were talking about. | 03:51 |
| javispedro | lol this exact "hack" is banned in the java spec. | 03:53 |
| AStorm | except creating a derivation tree is incompatible with mixins | 03:54 |
| AStorm | :) | 03:54 |
| AStorm | since then you don't have a mixin anymore, you have a class that is derived from all the classes implementing interfaces. | 03:55 |
| javispedro | thus the hack lol | 03:55 |
| AStorm | either hundred of empty classes | 03:55 |
| AStorm | (well, I'm exaggerating) | 03:55 |
| AStorm | to create a small inheritance tree | 03:56 |
| AStorm | but that won't work either I guess. | 03:56 |
| AStorm | :) | 03:56 |
| AStorm | so, anyway. | 03:56 |
| AStorm | that limitation has been lifted I think. | 03:56 |
| javispedro | i tried to compile a test case in 1.6 source mode and it failed, so I don't know. | 03:57 |
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| spencer_ | anyone knows where i can find a good tutorial on how to use libtools/autoconf/automake on sb?? | 03:57 |
| AStorm | uhoh | 03:58 |
| AStorm | there are no good tutorials on any of those in normal usage | 03:58 |
| AStorm | and you expect us to find one for sbox | 03:59 |
| AStorm | ;p | 03:59 |
| javispedro | sbox shouldn't be any diferent. | 03:59 |
| AStorm | that was what I wanted to add ;) | 03:59 |
| AStorm | http://entrian.com/goto/ - yes, Python is powerful ;p | 03:59 |
| spencer_ | ... | 03:59 |
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| spencer_ | somehow my conf linked ar as the compiler rather than gcc :( | 04:00 |
| spencer_ | anyone can help? | 04:00 |
| javispedro | whaaaat? | 04:01 |
| AStorm | huh? | 04:01 |
| AStorm | spencer_: check if your CC var is set correctly | 04:01 |
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| AStorm | likely is not, and so you need to fix it | 04:02 |
| AStorm | scratchbox configuration menu should do it for you | 04:02 |
| AStorm | (just pick another arch/compiler) | 04:02 |
| AStorm | (e.g. switch between x86 and arm code compilation) | 04:02 |
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| spencer_ | env does not have CC.. i guess that's why | 04:04 |
| AStorm | no, then the default of cc should be used | 04:04 |
| AStorm | or gcc | 04:04 |
| AStorm | depending on autotools version | 04:04 |
| b-man16 | hmm af-sb-init.sh is missing in my SDK installation even though maemo-sdk-dev is installed :( | 04:05 |
| AStorm | libtool has hardcoded compiler config files as well, so it shouldn't try to use ar as a compiler | 04:05 |
| AStorm | b-man16: heh. | 04:05 |
| AStorm | I think I dealt with this before too | 04:05 |
| AStorm | but I don't remember how I fixed it | 04:05 |
| javispedro | b-man16: nokia-binaries? | 04:05 |
| b-man16 | that's installed | 04:05 |
| javispedro | in your target? | 04:06 |
| b-man16 | yup | 04:06 |
| javispedro | sure? :) nokia-binaries should pull that package | 04:06 |
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| mau_mex | Hello some one can tell me hoy can i fix this , whaen I try login to /scratchbox/login | 04:12 |
| mau_mex | bash: /scratchbox/login: Permiso denegado | 04:12 |
| mau_mex | Permission Denied | 04:13 |
| Firebird | did you add yourself as a sbox user? | 04:14 |
| Firebird | then logged out and back in so you're in the sbox group | 04:14 |
| mau_mex | i am sure abouth that , but hoy can I confirm? | 04:14 |
| javispedro | mau_mex: "groups" command should print "sbox" somewhere. | 04:14 |
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| mau_mex | :s there is not sbox on /etc/group , i check it 5 minutes agoy before reboot and i`m sure i saw it... | 04:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Moblin Garage" | 04:18 |
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| javispedro | http://garage.moblin.org/ | 04:22 |
| javispedro | heh. | 04:22 |
| javispedro | actually, it resembles maemo.org/downloads more than garage. | 04:22 |
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| Firebird | why doesn't the package manager in maemo look like that :o | 04:27 |
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| AStorm | Firebird: have you seen the Maemo 5 one? | 04:33 |
| Firebird | looks the same as the maemo4 one last I looked | 04:33 |
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| luke-jr__ | Fonera 2.0N advertises 3G support :O | 05:26 |
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| luke-jr__ | oh, via USB... | 05:29 |
| luke-jr__ | and it's bulky looking | 05:29 |
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| wazd | Google hits Android ROM modder with a cease-and-desist letter | 06:14 |
| wazd | elouel | 06:14 |
| johnx | ha | 06:15 |
| johnx | well I guess that just about sums up my misgivings with android | 06:15 |
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| GAN8001 | Hooray Mini 9 OS X | 06:16 |
| johnx | it's funny, cause at work I end up using a netbook when I need linux over mac os x :) | 06:17 |
| johnx | (though mac os x is workable in most cases) | 06:17 |
| GAN8001 | johnx, I'm just going to be using VMWare | 06:18 |
| johnx | wait, on the mini 9? | 06:18 |
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| GAN8001 | yeah | 06:19 |
| GAN8001 | Got it on the 8GB even | 06:19 |
| johnx | sooo, mini 9 with os x with vmware on top of that? | 06:19 |
| GAN8001 | Nah, VMWare on my dual E5520 Mac Pro. ;) | 06:20 |
| johnx | ah, apple gave you an early christmas present? | 06:20 |
| GAN8001 | Yeah | 06:20 |
| GAN8001 | They overnighted it | 06:20 |
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| GAN8001 | I was so suprised when FedEx showed up | 06:20 |
| GAN8001 | Since I was expecting UPS | 06:20 |
| johnx | sooo, bit faster than the G5? :D | 06:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just a touch | 06:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially the single 1.8GHz G5 I was stuck on. | 06:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Intel X25-m 80GB on the way. | 06:22 |
| johnx | yeah, I'm still on an A64 1.8GHz. it was feeling slow recently until I learned some process had gone crazy in the background and had been running for weeks :) | 06:24 |
| johnx | now it's quite nice again :D | 06:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 06:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | a 1.8GHz G5 is slow no matter how you cut it. | 06:24 |
| johnx | mac os x is a hungry OS. not that it's not really awesome some of the time, but you can't say it's lightweight | 06:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sure, but it pisses me off way less than GNOME. | 06:25 |
| johnx | the thing about being forced to use 2 OSes (mac at work, linux at home) is that both piss me off about 50% of the time | 06:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah :\ | 06:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm way used to OS X's quirks, though. | 06:26 |
| johnx | opposite for me | 06:26 |
| johnx | really loving the keybindings on OS X now that I've tuned them, but the lack of focus follows mouse and smart window placement and that single menu bar drive me up the wall | 06:28 |
| johnx | then I get on ubuntu and the mail/contacts/calendar situation makes me want to stab someone (or pay someone) | 06:28 |
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| johnx | hey rm_you :D | 07:04 |
| pupnik | how does one judge a mail/contacts/calendar suite... | 07:06 |
| pupnik | requirements, tastes vary so much | 07:07 |
| johnx | oh, I judge lots of things :) | 07:07 |
| johnx | uhm, yeah. it's very much a personal tastes thing I think. | 07:07 |
| johnx | I think I like simple, separate tools better than one big application | 07:08 |
| johnx | I really did like the o-hand pimlico stuff, but it kind of looks unmaintained | 07:08 |
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| pupnik | you use them regularly? | 07:09 |
| pupnik | sync btwn work schedule and home/portable schedule? | 07:09 |
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| zelrikriando | hello | 07:09 |
| johnx | the pimlico stuff? not at all. maybe I should look at what features are actually missing for daily use | 07:10 |
| johnx | hey zelrikriando | 07:10 |
| johnx | though one thing going forward is that I do need caldav, so that cuts down my choices a lot | 07:10 |
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| zelrikriando | Have you guys heard about what google did to android | 07:15 |
| zelrikriando | sorry to be offtopic :p | 07:15 |
| johnx | yeah, I heard they made it into a mobile phone platform :) | 07:16 |
| johnx | (no worries about the off-topicness when it's so quiet | 07:16 |
| zelrikriando | They asked the guy who did a popular rom to stop doing it | 07:17 |
| zelrikriando | so basically they gave a huge kick in the custom android roms | 07:17 |
| johnx | was he redistributing proprietary code against license agreements to lots of people? | 07:17 |
| zelrikriando | So yeah, they claim that gmail,youtube and stuff are proprietary | 07:18 |
| zelrikriando | but he was distributing it on phones that had licenses... | 07:18 |
| microlith | if they're proprietary, only google can distribute them | 07:19 |
| johnx | yeah, I'm sure the license didn't allow redistribution | 07:19 |
| microlith | even if the person who uses the rom has a license | 07:19 |
| zelrikriando | That kinda sucks though | 07:19 |
| zelrikriando | it s against the spirit of android | 07:19 |
| microlith | see the devkit with devphone, setup requires you to let the installer pull some libraries off the phone | 07:19 |
| johnx | wonder what the situation would be if someone tried that with maemo :) | 07:19 |
| luke-jr | zelrikriando: Android was never free | 07:20 |
| zelrikriando | is there proprietary parts in maemo | 07:20 |
| johnx | yup | 07:20 |
| luke-jr | Maemo is probably a bit more free than Android, but still not completely | 07:20 |
| zelrikriando | so no custom roms for that one either hu | 07:20 |
| johnx | a couple of the apps and strangely the internet connection daemon | 07:20 |
| johnx | but maemo gets more free with each release | 07:20 |
| luke-jr | zelrikriando: Not out of the box, no | 07:20 |
| johnx | and there is a distro based on the free parts of maemo, called mer | 07:21 |
| luke-jr | zelrikriando: Mer aims to be compatible with the Maemo packages | 07:21 |
| luke-jr | and Gentoo can sortof make use of some too | 07:21 |
| zelrikriando | so of course, lots of people are mad at Google (me kinda too since I use custom roms) | 07:21 |
| johnx | nokia has been pretty friendly about figuring out some way to redistribute the proprietary bits with mer so that people can keep using the non-free bits, but it takes cooperation, not just going off and redistributing without asking | 07:22 |
| microlith | no real reason to be, and the sdk is open so they should get cracking on replacements, or figure out how to transition the apps | 07:22 |
| zelrikriando | microlith: it's pretty hard to keep a good experience without google apps | 07:23 |
| luke-jr | I am 100% anti-proprietary, but I wouldn't violate copyright law. | 07:23 |
| luke-jr | zelrikriando: you replace them, that's how. | 07:23 |
| microlith | zelrikriando: yes, but that's not google's problem | 07:23 |
| zelrikriando | hmm | 07:23 |
| luke-jr | or, like microlith probably meant, provide a legal way to migrate them | 07:23 |
| zelrikriando | I use all those apps | 07:23 |
| microlith | luke-jr: yes | 07:23 |
| zelrikriando | I got that phone because I make heavy use of google apps | 07:23 |
| johnx | using proprietary apps often requires giving up some freedoms | 07:24 |
| luke-jr | zelrikriando: it's quite possible to make a desktop app that downloads apps from the phone and reuploads them after you've flashed | 07:24 |
| johnx | though it sounds like a tool to extract the apps that could be distributed to people who already have the phone would be totally legally unassailable | 07:24 |
| zelrikriando | yeah there are workarounds | 07:24 |
| luke-jr | then you could download those Google apps, flash, and upload them to the new ROM | 07:24 |
| zelrikriando | hopefully | 07:24 |
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| zelrikriando | There is a tool to backup apps | 07:25 |
| luke-jr | but I don't think there is a Google product I am willing to use | 07:25 |
| luke-jr | zelrikriando: so use that | 07:25 |
| zelrikriando | but I think gmail and youtube might be too integrated to be considered apps | 07:25 |
| luke-jr | -.- | 07:25 |
| zelrikriando | I think it would be a mess to remove | 07:26 |
| zelrikriando | especially the google search | 07:26 |
| johnx | "mess to remove"? well their open source code builds into a ROM, right? the question is just adding the proprietary bits back into it (or creating free replacements) | 07:27 |
| zelrikriando | yeah | 07:27 |
| zelrikriando | ok so the mess would be to get them back | 07:27 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: from what I hear, the open source code doesn't build into a ROM by itself | 07:28 |
| zelrikriando | and oh yeah | 07:28 |
| zelrikriando | Google sync | 07:28 |
| johnx | luke-jr, interesting. I've seen people build the open source code into a root fs image at least | 07:28 |
| zelrikriando | my contacts | 07:28 |
| johnx | s/image// | 07:28 |
| infobot | johnx meant: luke-jr, interesting. I've seen people build the open source code into a root fs at least | 07:28 |
| zelrikriando | If I remove that it s not even a phone anymore | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | johnx: including kernel modules? | 07:28 |
| zelrikriando | :D | 07:28 |
| johnx | luke-jr, errr...nope. but that code is open source | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | or perhaps more relevant assuming Google is going legal route, userland drivers | 07:29 |
| johnx | needs to be integrated manually with whatever kernel source you want to use | 07:29 |
| johnx | someone did the work for the zaurus | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | johnx: Android phones are 100% free software on the driver end? | 07:29 |
| johnx | luke-jr, pretty sure, yeah | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | oo | 07:29 |
| johnx | luke-jr, let's try that differently | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | now the question is: why are we over here with Nokia? :p | 07:30 |
| johnx | google's modifications required to the linux kernel needed for android are open source | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | if Android phones are already suitable in the driver department | 07:30 |
| microlith | there is a qualcomm library that is not free | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | johnx: I only care to run Gentoo+KDE | 07:30 |
| johnx | the drivers that phone manufacturers use are not necessarily open source | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | microlith: ah | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | johnx: ... that's what I was just asking | 07:31 |
| luke-jr | meh | 07:31 |
| johnx | luke-jr, google doesn't write that code | 07:31 |
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| johnx | they're an upstream for people who make phones | 07:31 |
| zelrikriando | my next phone will be using maemo I think | 07:31 |
| zelrikriando | thanks to Google | 07:31 |
| zelrikriando | :D | 07:31 |
| luke-jr | zelrikriando: that makes no sense | 07:31 |
| luke-jr | you're upset because you can't use Google apps for Android on your modified phone | 07:31 |
| johnx | zelrikriando, if someone blatantly pulled that trick with maemo they'd get a cease and desist pretty quick I think | 07:31 |
| luke-jr | so you want to switch to Maemo which doesn't even remotely have the possibility? | 07:32 |
| johnx | because there is code in maemo that belongs to non-nokia third parties | 07:32 |
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| luke-jr | "Ugh, it will take a lot of work to get Google Apps to run on my modified phone. Next time, I'll get a phone that won't run them under any circumstances!" | 07:33 |
| zelrikriando | luke-jr: without google apps I dont even have a contact list | 07:33 |
| luke-jr | I don't get it. :p | 07:33 |
| johnx | zelrikriando, FYI: the maemo4 contacts app is non-free and doesn't sync to anything | 07:34 |
| zelrikriando | The whole point of getting that phone was to modify it :) | 07:34 |
| johnx | modify != break license agreements | 07:34 |
| luke-jr | johnx: Maemo4 isn't for phones. | 07:35 |
| luke-jr | zelrikriando: the only phone that really can be modified is OpenMoko so far | 07:35 |
| luke-jr | unfortunately, OpenMoko kinda sucks :/ | 07:35 |
| johnx | luke-jr, merely making conjectures about licensing ;) | 07:35 |
| luke-jr | zelrikriando: you're welcome to join me on a hunt for a phone I am 100% free to modify software | 07:36 |
| microlith | luke-jr: kinda? | 07:37 |
| zelrikriando | luke-jr: that should be the norm | 07:37 |
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| zelrikriando | :) | 07:37 |
| luke-jr | zelrikriando: should be, but I haven't found a good one | 07:37 |
| johnx | luke-jr, if all you care about is the kernel, might want to wait and see on the n900. might meet your requirements | 07:37 |
| luke-jr | microlith: no keyboard | 07:37 |
| luke-jr | johnx: I care about drivers. Userland included. | 07:37 |
| microlith | luke-jr: I meant in the "surely you are being kind" sense | 07:38 |
| luke-jr | AFAIK, N900 has already been announced as non-free even in that regard. | 07:38 |
| luke-jr | microlith: back a few years ago, I might have been happy with OpenMoko if it had a keyboard. | 07:38 |
| Pavlov | luke-jr: you're gonna be searching for a while | 07:38 |
| johnx | luke-jr, do you need 3D acceleration? | 07:38 |
| luke-jr | Pavlov: I suspect so. | 07:38 |
| luke-jr | johnx: need? no. | 07:38 |
| radic_ | where can I find tghe questionmark on the keyboard | 07:39 |
| johnx | then, what else is closed source on the n900? (WRT to drivers) | 07:39 |
| luke-jr | johnx: probably GPS and modem? | 07:39 |
| luke-jr | battery charger? | 07:39 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, what phone are you using right now? | 07:40 |
| luke-jr | johnx: some GE wired POTS phone, why? ;) | 07:40 |
| luke-jr | it even works if I unplug it ;) | 07:40 |
| johnx | luke-jr, did they give you the schematics for it? | 07:40 |
| luke-jr | johnx: irrelevant. | 07:40 |
| luke-jr | I'm not asking for schematics (yet) | 07:41 |
| luke-jr | just specifications to use the hardware. | 07:41 |
| johnx | but you can't make pushing the 5 dial a 7 | 07:41 |
| johnx | that's not open | 07:41 |
| luke-jr | johnx: my phone has no software. | 07:41 |
| luke-jr | :p | 07:41 |
| johnx | so you don't care about modifying the basic call-making properties? | 07:42 |
| luke-jr | sure I do. eventually. | 07:42 |
| luke-jr | what do you mean by that anyhow? | 07:42 |
| johnx | I mean, then why do you care about the modem driver? | 07:42 |
| luke-jr | first goal: modify any software. | 07:42 |
| luke-jr | principles. | 07:42 |
| johnx | provided it's implemented in a way that allows you to upgrade the kernel | 07:42 |
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| johnx | you're making good the enemy of perfect | 07:43 |
| johnx | and ending up using a wired POTS phone | 07:43 |
| luke-jr | no, perfect is not needing modification. :p | 07:43 |
| johnx | it's an expression | 07:44 |
| slonopotamus | hehe :) | 07:44 |
| luke-jr | :) | 07:44 |
| johnx | and you're dodging what I'm trying to get at | 07:44 |
| johnx | :P | 07:44 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: I'll start my crusade for open hardware schematics later, after I reach the software goal. | 07:45 |
| luke-jr | then open chips after that. | 07:45 |
| johnx | eh, principles without reason just seems like stubbornness | 07:47 |
| luke-jr | reason is because I might need to modify it | 07:47 |
| johnx | how many times did you need to modify your POTS phone? | 07:48 |
| luke-jr | IIRC, once. and I haven't figured out how yet. | 07:48 |
| luke-jr | so I'm stuck with a buggy POTS phone until I can find a good replacement | 07:49 |
| * RST38h moos evilly | 07:51 | |
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| johnx | hey RST38h | 07:52 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, just curious: do you own a car? | 08:03 |
| luke-jr | johnx: yes, I have the source code for it too. | 08:04 |
| johnx | really? or you can just change the fuel maps? (or are you saying it's carbureted?) | 08:05 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: no, not really. I'm just being a hypocrit and taking this one step at a time. | 08:06 |
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| luke-jr | my desktop machine was first. | 08:06 |
| luke-jr | next is my handheld. | 08:06 |
| luke-jr | well, I guess my servers were really first. | 08:06 |
| luke-jr | then desktop, now handheld. | 08:06 |
| luke-jr | I'll move on to vehicles much later. | 08:06 |
| johnx | heh. there are open source ECU alternatives you know :) | 08:07 |
| johnx | i guess I just find the "all or nothing approach" unintuitive, but whatever | 08:08 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: you're the one implying "all or nothing" | 08:11 |
| luke-jr | I'm only shooting for "just the software on my handheld" right now | 08:11 |
| johnx | sooo, "all the software must be open" isn't "all or nothing"? | 08:12 |
| luke-jr | nope | 08:13 |
| luke-jr | "the software" is a restriction on "all" | 08:13 |
| Stskeeps | dear god, not this again :P | 08:13 |
| luke-jr | as is "on my handheld" | 08:13 |
| johnx | alright, I repent | 08:13 |
| johnx | think I'll just get an iphone | 08:14 |
| luke-jr | also, I never said "or nothing" :p | 08:14 |
| johnx | you're the one that has a POTS phone :P | 08:15 |
| luke-jr | so? | 08:15 |
| RST38h | Anyone can point me to documentation on using Fremantle hw buttons? | 08:15 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, ok, let's agree to disagree | 08:16 |
| luke-jr | johnx: NO! | 08:16 |
| luke-jr | >:) | 08:16 |
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| johnx | RST38h, that's a pretty good question | 08:23 |
| johnx | RST38h, is there a reason you think it won't be the same as the N810? | 08:26 |
| RST38h | johnx: Yes. No buttons. =) | 08:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: There is still the camera button though, so I would like to know how to use it | 08:27 |
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| johnx | RST38h, still have zoom buttons, right? | 08:28 |
| johnx | and I kind of assume the camera button gets caught by some camera daemon sitting in the background | 08:29 |
| RST38h | They are used for volume cnontrol | 08:29 |
| johnx | bummer | 08:29 |
| RST38h | Well I know how it happens in Symbian but not in Maemo | 08:29 |
| johnx | sounds right, now that you mention it | 08:29 |
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| RST38h | Ok, Ctrl+Enter it is then. | 09:01 |
| johnx | oooor, make it configurable? | 09:03 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mermantle.png | 09:03 |
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| johnx | what does the gear do? | 09:03 |
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| RST38h | Not making it configurable. | 09:05 |
| RST38h | You want configurable - edit sendmail.cf! | 09:05 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: edit desktop widgets or add | 09:05 |
| johnx | RST38h, you're making a ... gui for editing sendmail.cf? | 09:05 |
| * RST38h cackles evilly | 09:06 | |
| Stskeeps | johnx: thats sw rendering hildon desktop | 09:06 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, ah! I didn't get that. thought it was more tricks with awesomeWM | 09:06 |
| johnx | so how does the SW rendering run? | 09:06 |
| Stskeeps | more interesting is how it runs on n8x0 | 09:07 |
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| wazd | Mornin' world) | 09:08 |
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| pupnik | http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=53880 'spilled' 4k demo | 09:08 |
| * pupnik feels around on the floor for eyes | 09:09 | |
| wazd | I hope today I'll be free from this slavery at last :) | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | yay | 09:09 |
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| pupnik | morning | 09:10 |
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| johnx | saw another 4k recently that looked cool | 09:10 |
| wazd | But miracles happen )) I still have a chance to be engaged in the court process)) | 09:10 |
| johnx | with mountains and such | 09:10 |
| johnx | precedural terrain | 09:10 |
| johnx | wazd, well, good luck! | 09:11 |
| wazd | johnx: ty :P | 09:11 |
| pupnik | oh yes, procedural, versus all the standard 4k, 64k demo that use bitmaps | 09:12 |
| pupnik | ;) | 09:12 |
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| johnx | pupnik, yeah, yeah. :P did you know the one I'm talking about or should I try to find it? | 09:13 |
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| wazd | Al these 4-64k demos are beyond my understanding. They are just way too cool | 09:13 |
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| pupnik | not offhand johnx | 09:15 |
| wazd | Damn, I'm a bit nervous =) | 09:15 |
| pupnik | this 128 byte demo ... is... | 09:15 |
| pupnik | http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=53871 | 09:15 |
| pupnik | 128 bytes | 09:15 |
| wazd | Pupnik: holy cow | 09:16 |
| * Stskeeps offers wazd finnish vodka | 09:16 | |
| wazd | Stskeeps: I better not be drunk, cause I need to be ready for fuck up :) | 09:17 |
| pupnik | most of these don't run under wine | 09:17 |
| pupnik | you are presenting a project waz? | 09:18 |
| wazd | pupnik: I'm getting myself a ticket to freedom) | 09:18 |
| wazd | pupnik: the only reason why I can't leave the country will soon be solved. I hope. | 09:21 |
| wazd | Or I'll kill these bastards with my bare hands! Arrrr!) | 09:22 |
| RST38h | and claim insanity? =) | 09:25 |
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| wazd | RST38h: yeah, moo btw :) | 09:30 |
| RST38h | heya | 09:30 |
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| wazd | I think I wont survive this line | 09:31 |
| RST38h | with the tablet, you will! | 09:31 |
| tekojo | moo all | 09:32 |
| RST38h | (may I suggest MSX or NES version of Green Beret? it has got the appropriate baddies) | 09:32 |
| RST38h | <off to work> | 09:32 |
| wazd | RST38h: Internet Tablet, give me power! :D | 09:32 |
| johnx | or: "Look! I'm playing MSX! I must be crazy!" | 09:33 |
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| wazd | I should have taken netbook with me) | 09:39 |
| lcuk2 | wazd, i hope you did not mention your design skills to the army/courts they will never let you out, and russian weaponry would have the best ui ever | 09:47 |
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| wazd | lcuk2: the best ui is large red button) | 09:48 |
| lcuk2 | but it would be shaded and well balanced and people would feel cool pressing it :D | 09:48 |
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| wazd | OMG! | 09:49 |
| wazd | A GUY WITH REAL AFRO ON HIS HEAD))) | 09:49 |
| wazd | jeez) | 09:49 |
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| lcuk2 | quite common lol | 09:49 |
| wazd | lcuk2: especially in Russia) | 09:50 |
| * lcuk2 nods | 09:50 | |
| Myrtti | http://instantrimshot.com | 09:53 |
| Myrtti | HTH, HAND | 09:54 |
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| lcuk2 | mornin Myrtti | 09:55 |
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| Corsac | Disponibilité: Date de sortie prévue pour le 19 oct. 09 | 10:14 |
| Corsac | huhu | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | preorder status? | 10:14 |
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| Corsac | no, availability date | 10:16 |
| Corsac | yesterday it was oct 22 | 10:16 |
| Corsac | if everyday it gains 3 days, I'm happy | 10:16 |
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| johnx | until you end up missing the pickup window because it was released back in 2007 and you never claimed it :P | 10:20 |
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| Pavlov | heh | 10:22 |
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| btnz | good morning, channel | 10:22 |
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| btnz | as far as i've followed it's possible to install standard debian programs under maemo.. | 10:23 |
| Myrtti | sounds like A Bad Idea | 10:23 |
| btnz | so could i get emacs running on it? | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | btnz: look into Easy Debian | 10:24 |
| Myrtti | IIRC there is a maemo port of it for atleast Diablo already | 10:24 |
| btnz | stskeeps, ty, i will | 10:24 |
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| wazd | jeez, I can't beleive what I just saw! | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: a UFO? | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | or an honest armyman? | 10:25 |
| btnz | myrtti, okay that's nice | 10:25 |
| wazd | Doctors here are TOTALLY messed up! | 10:25 |
| wazd | Dentist tried to fake the results right in front of me! | 10:26 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 10:26 |
| btnz | myrtti, stskeeps: and what about my favourite scheme interpreter? will it, will it somehow or not at all? | 10:26 |
| Stskeeps | btnz: does it burn on ARM? if not, maybe :) | 10:27 |
| johnx | btnz, which scheme interpreter? | 10:27 |
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| Myrtti | scheme, is it something edible? | 10:27 |
| Myrtti | omnomnom? | 10:27 |
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| btnz | stskeeps: but basically i can run programs available for ARM? | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | btnz: easy debian is a chroot environment that uses debian's armel port | 10:28 |
| Myrtti | sounds crunchy on the outside and soft in the inside | 10:28 |
| wazd | And when I asked yo check the results she shouted and threw me away | 10:28 |
| btnz | johnx: plt-scheme (mzscheme) | 10:28 |
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| johnx | btnz, often need a recompile to link against the the maemo versions of libraries (if it's dynamically linked), so to have it working without a chroot the question is "can it be compiled for ARM?" | 10:29 |
| aquatix | morning all | 10:29 |
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| wazd | jeez, I still can't beleive they're that desperate! | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: time to get out of the country? | 10:32 |
| wazd | Holy shit!) | 10:32 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: you bet) | 10:32 |
| btnz | johnx, the source code is available, it's not the tiniest but also not a huge chunk of software, so i guess it should be possible? | 10:33 |
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| johnx | btnz, yeah, definitely doable one way or another | 10:33 |
| johnx | a debian chroot is probably the easiest way to get it working and as long as it's available for debian armel it will definitely work | 10:34 |
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| Myrtti | mmmm emacs | 10:34 |
| Myrtti | fluffy pink emacs | 10:35 |
| btnz | johnx, thanks, looks like it gets pretty close to an IDE-in-your-pocket, now i think i've got some reading to do (deb armel??) | 10:36 |
| johnx | btnz, it's the name of an architecture (like i386, or powerpc). armel means ARM EABI little endian | 10:37 |
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| tigert | morning | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | morning tigert | 10:39 |
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| crashanddie_ | johnx, I don't even *want* to know how it comes you know the definition of ARMEL by heart | 10:49 |
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| crashanddie_ | s/how it comes/why it is/ | 10:50 |
| infobot | crashanddie_ meant: johnx, I don't even *want* to know why it is you know the definition of ARMEL by heart | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie_: because the issue comes up so often :P | 10:50 |
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| johnx | crashanddie_, because I've been hacking around with armel-related stuff since it was supported in linux :P | 10:51 |
| crashanddie_ | ok | 10:52 |
| crashanddie_ | now | 10:52 |
| crashanddie_ | I'm casually browsing /. | 10:52 |
| crashanddie_ | http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/09/24/231229/Data-Locking-In-a-Web-Application?from=rss | 10:52 |
| crashanddie_ | Why the hell is a "web application" categorised under "hardware", and what kind of half-witted idiot would say that a "because of [the web application's] disconnected nature" in the summary | 10:53 |
| crashanddie_ | WTF? | 10:53 |
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| johnx | oh! i know! the kind of idiot that gets picked for ask slashdot! | 10:55 |
| tigert | who is casually browsing slashdot anyway? :) | 10:56 |
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| johnx | crashanddie! | 10:56 |
| * johnx is totally "on" today | 10:57 | |
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| glass | it's stupid question anyhow | 11:00 |
| glass | +a | 11:00 |
| glass | if they've managed that far with it, they should be able to figure out how to show to user that it's being edited or locked by someone else | 11:01 |
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| mihu | Hi. Is http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0beta2/ the latest version available for the public? | 11:20 |
| RST38h | The SDK you mean? Yes | 11:21 |
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| mihu | RST38h: Thanks. | 11:21 |
| RST38h | http://gibsonandlily.com/images/galexandria.png | 11:21 |
| frals | lol | 11:22 |
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| RST38h | ...visiting beauty supply stores in a hunt for chemicals needed to build bombs for al-Qaida, authorities charge... | 11:29 |
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| frals | trying to learn pygtk while hangover kinda sucks :( | 12:04 |
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| johnx | try pyqt instead | 12:05 |
| johnx | or pyside or whatever the new one is | 12:05 |
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| pupnik_ | " | 12:09 |
| * pupnik_ haet linux pastefail :( | 12:09 | |
| pupnik_ | "The slide in Nokia World showing the combine selling of the 5800 and N97 on 10 millions" - http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=333426&postcount=11 | 12:10 |
| pupnik_ | wow what a userbase | 12:10 |
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| glass | hmm. i think the 10m number is a month or+ old by now | 12:15 |
| glass | pupnik_: what was amusing that they sold a million+ 3250's in couple of months(back when it came). and that phone is seriously shitty | 12:15 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders how many 3310s they sold. | 12:16 | |
| glass | SpeedEvil: and how many of those are still in use :D | 12:16 |
| pupnik_ | shush all nokias are wonderful! | 12:16 |
| pupnik_ | heh | 12:17 |
| SpeedEvil | glass: Fine phone. | 12:17 |
| pupnik_ | how many symbian users are there in total? | 12:17 |
| glass | dunno about current approx. numbers. a lot. | 12:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | It passes the test that when you sit on it, you get up because it's uncomfortable, not that you know you've just broken it. | 12:18 |
| RST38h | pupnik: 90% of Symbian users have no idea they use Symbian | 12:20 |
| RST38h | So who knows... | 12:20 |
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| pupnik_ | hm | 12:29 |
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| tigert | most of them probably dont care | 12:45 |
| tigert | they use a phone | 12:45 |
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| rkirti | morning VDVsx | 12:58 |
| rkirti | must be busy with summit preparations I guess.......... | 12:58 |
| VDVsx | rkirti, hi :) | 13:00 |
| frals | nice, 4 posts in a row from the same guy.. cant people use the edit function? :P | 13:01 |
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| RST38h | people can, but how do you know it is a human poster? | 13:01 |
| frals | my bad ;) | 13:02 |
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| * wazd is going slightly mad | 13:11 | |
| Stskeeps | mm? | 13:11 |
| wazd | Iiiiit finaly happened... | 13:12 |
| wazd | I'm dying in the infinite line | 13:12 |
| Stskeeps | hehe :P | 13:12 |
| kulve | how do 3rd party projects get a product to bugs.maemo.org? | 13:12 |
| X-Fade | kulve: just ping andre__ | 13:12 |
| Stskeeps | kulve: ask andre i think - it's fairly easy :) | 13:12 |
| wazd | And I have to go here on monday | 13:12 |
| kulve | ah, ok. So no automatic "get your package to extras and a bugzilla is opened for you" thing :) | 13:13 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: is it looking better or not? | 13:13 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: they really screwed up | 13:13 |
| Stskeeps | good for you or bad? ;) | 13:14 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: tried to fear me tt I'll be sued if my papers are fake. I said "go ahead" | 13:14 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | that's fairly common practice except it's the small print on forms | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:16 |
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| johnx | wazd, what's up? | 13:16 |
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| RST38h | wazd: So, who won? | 13:37 |
| * lcuk2 baaaaaaaa | 13:43 | |
| Stskeeps | moooo | 13:44 |
| * RST38h quacks for a change | 13:45 | |
| ccooke | Hmm. I think this is the nicest-looking loaf I've ever made | 13:46 |
| ccooke | eek. WW. | 13:46 |
| RST38h | wazd: I have got an idea. | 13:46 |
| * SpeedEvil has managed to lose his breadmaker paddle. | 13:46 | |
| * SpeedEvil stabs planned obscelesance. | 13:47 | |
| RST38h | wazd: (just don't have time to do it, so it will have to be implemented quickiedirtily) | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | I have this nice programmable in all ways breadmaker only 4 years old, that I can't get parts for. | 13:47 |
| RST38h | wazd: Let us make a SANE media player for the tablets | 13:47 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: heh. I don't use a breadmaker. I *do* use a decent baking stone, though | 13:47 |
| * RST38h buys bread in a nearby store =) | 13:47 | |
| ccooke | but this is overnight bread: takes about 5 minutes work the night before and ten minutes the next day. No kneading, hardly any mess. | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: I can do it the other way - but a load with literally 1 minute prep ... | 13:48 |
| ccooke | It's about as complicated as a breadmaker, basically :-) | 13:48 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: *nod* | 13:48 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: I'll bet I can get a better crumb in this, though :-) | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | dunno. I have one program that takes 8 hours, and is really nice. | 13:49 |
| lcuk2 | o_O RST38h you are goin mad! | 13:49 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, sane is good - i gather you would use MAFW to maintain compatibility with everything | 13:50 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: I have one recipe that needs about twenty minutes work entire, but spreads it over three days... | 13:50 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: it is *lovely*. Of course, I can only start it on a Friday :-) | 13:50 |
| lcuk2 | all the backend is there and you just need a ui | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 13:51 |
| lcuk2 | which can be built/expanded/added/hacked as required | 13:51 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: does your breadmaker get the crust right? I know some do, which is nice | 13:52 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Actually, I planned to sell this idea to someone, with wazd doing the UI =) | 13:52 |
| lcuk2 | haha | 13:53 |
| RST38h | lcuk: (see the mailing list thread) | 13:53 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: (I tend to use combinations of ice, room temperature or boiling water in the oven, depending on the necessary effect) | 13:53 |
| lcuk2 | well thats not a bad idea at all | 13:53 |
| lcuk2 | but its easier if you just try hacking something bad so white knights can jump in ;) :D | 13:53 |
| RST38h | lcuk: See, writing a media player is not difficult | 13:54 |
| RST38h | lcuk: What is difficult is making a usable UI | 13:54 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: yes, which is nice. | 13:54 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Right now we have Nokia's own player (half baked at best), MediaBox (with confusing UI), Canola (with 20+ second startup time) | 13:54 |
| RST38h | lcuk: And a few more, written in Python and not working very well | 13:55 |
| * lcuk2 nods, but i actually like the nokia media player | 13:55 | |
| * lcuk2 is all for simplicity | 13:55 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: There is also an iTunes-like player that MAY work perfectly if it were packaged properly | 13:55 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Again, see the mailing list thread | 13:55 |
| lcuk2 | yeah, media players are like hello world | 13:56 |
| lcuk2 | yeah i know | 13:56 |
| lcuk2 | good media players are rare | 13:56 |
| RST38h | lcuk: So, the idea is to carefully go over the UI, build exactly what is needed, in C/C++ (no Python) | 13:56 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Then let someone else do the actual player with this =) | 13:57 |
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| lcuk2 | actually, the best way would be going over the ui in whatever prototyping kit people feel comfortable with | 13:57 |
| lcuk2 | implementation is next stage | 13:57 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Just drawing will be fine | 13:57 |
| lcuk2 | im happy with liqbase pencil - wazd is happy in photoshop, you are happy in asm etc | 13:57 |
| ccooke | RST38h: a mock up might be useful as a test | 13:57 |
| AchipA | can somebody copypaste me the partition layout (cat /proc/partitions) for a pristine N810 and N800 ? I'm working on some partitioning related things, but my own unit is so far from factory settings I fear it might very well bomb for other folks so I'd like to doublecheck... | 13:57 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I have no problems putting the UI together in GTK+ | 13:57 |
| lcuk2 | i know | 13:58 |
| lcuk2 | like the discussion about fonts and colors | 13:58 |
| lcuk2 | same thing | 13:58 |
| RST38h | ccooke: I hope wazd has his say on the UI | 13:58 |
| lcuk2 | an ideas hotbed | 13:58 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, i dont | 13:58 |
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| lcuk2 | i hope the best overall ui has its way | 13:58 |
| lcuk2 | whoever comes up with it | 13:58 |
| RST38h | ccooke: Because he is actually a designer | 13:58 |
| lcuk2 | (it will most likely be wazd, but we might be surprised | 13:58 |
| lcuk2 | some unknown person might just come out of nowhere and knock us out | 13:58 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Probability of that is low. | 13:59 |
| lcuk2 | of course its low | 13:59 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Besides, we already have enough players designed by programmers :) | 14:00 |
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| * Myrtti cries happy tears | 14:01 | |
| lcuk2 | i never said anything about programmers - there is some 7 year old out there drawing uis in crayon and dreaming of how to interact with them :) | 14:01 |
| Myrtti | my bash scripting skillz ♥ | 14:01 |
| Whiz | Myrtti, <3 :D | 14:01 |
| lcuk2 | :D it works Myrtti | 14:01 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Hello Kitty Fremantle theme? | 14:01 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: I wish | 14:01 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Yes, the happy theory says so | 14:01 |
| Stskeeps | Myrtti: something to get wazd doing ;) | 14:02 |
| Myrtti | lcuk2: subdirectories didn't make the shit hit the fan as I feared :-D | 14:02 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, the day we stop dreaming and hoping is the day we die | 14:02 |
| * Myrtti rejoices | 14:02 | |
| lcuk2 | :) good! | 14:02 |
| * Myrtti does a happy dance | 14:02 | |
| Myrtti | coffee/tea/oj and cookies for everyone | 14:02 |
| lcuk2 | bacon butties? | 14:03 |
| Myrtti | sure! | 14:03 |
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| lcuk2 | :D yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy | 14:03 |
| lcuk2 | with a full stomach, i must vanish, have fun folks \o | 14:03 |
| Myrtti | I can't digest them these days, but doesn't stop you having them :-D | 14:04 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Just go samurai road by assuming you are dead at the beginning =) | 14:04 |
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| zerojay | Ladies with bash scripting skills.. yep, I think that's enough to bring a happy tear to my eye too. :) | 14:06 |
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| Myrtti | zerojay: if you'd only know... | 14:11 |
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| zerojay | I'm sure you probably know far more than that anyways. | 14:17 |
| Myrtti | I feel like I'm high on sugar | 14:17 |
| zerojay | Hehehe... good stuff. :) | 14:18 |
| andre__ | kulve, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products | 14:19 |
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| AchipA | can somebody copypaste me the partition layout (cat /proc/partitions) for a pristine N810 and N800 ? I'm working on some partitioning related things, but my own unit is so far from factory settings I fear it might very well bomb for other folks so I'd like to doublecheck... | 14:24 |
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| X-Fade | Hmm crap, it seems we need to import the whole gstreamer tools chain from sdk into fremantle extras-devel too. | 14:24 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Star Trek too? | 14:26 |
| * RST38h hides | 14:26 | |
| Myrtti | RST38h: sorry, I'm flying so high I didn't get the reference | 14:26 |
| tekojo | X-Fade mail or ping Soumya | 14:27 |
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| X-Fade | tekojo: The problem is generally known, I just hadn't noticed the gstreamer-tools thing. | 14:28 |
| tekojo | X-Fade there's an internal discussion ongoing with a potentially cleaner solution | 14:29 |
| X-Fade | tekojo: Yeah, I know ;) | 14:29 |
| X-Fade | tekojo: And like the proposal. | 14:29 |
| tekojo | X-Fade and I guess the gstreamer-tools would work for that one too | 14:29 |
| tekojo | at least they could be pushed in | 14:29 |
| tekojo | it would make a few people happy | 14:29 |
| javispedro | morning #maemo | 14:30 |
| Stskeeps | morn javispedro | 14:30 |
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| * javispedro is ashamed of http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=333482#post333482 | 14:31 | |
| lardman | morning | 14:32 |
| javispedro | morn lardman | 14:33 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: can't be worse than the Mer forum thread | 14:35 |
| javispedro | wow. true. | 14:35 |
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| mihu | AchipA: Still need that information? | 14:36 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Where there are shell scripting, there must be Star Trek in the interests =) | 14:37 |
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| AchipA | mihu: yes | 14:42 |
| mihu | Nokia-N810-43-7:~# cat /proc/partitions | 14:43 |
| mihu | major minor #blocks name | 14:43 |
| mihu | 31 0 128 mtdblock0 | 14:43 |
| mihu | 31 0 128 mtdblock0 | 14:43 |
| mihu | 31 1 384 mtdblock1 | 14:43 |
| mihu | 31 2 2048 mtdblock2 | 14:43 |
| mihu | 31 3 4096 mtdblock3 | 14:43 |
| mihu | 31 4 255488 mtdblock4 | 14:43 |
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| AchipA | mihu: where's the internal mmc ? Or did you clip it here | 14:45 |
| * javispedro wows at 64 post -developers digest | 14:46 | |
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| mihu | AchipA: Yes, I clipped the following entries, sorry, I thought these were because of my MMC card. | 14:47 |
| mihu | 254 0 1966080 mmcblk0 | 14:47 |
| mihu | 254 1 1926744 mmcblk0p1 | 14:47 |
| Stskeeps | keep in mind some N810s were with a faulty partition table | 14:48 |
| AchipA | mihu: np, thx for the info | 14:48 |
| AchipA | Stskeeps: I've seen the notices, any suggested way of programmatically detecting them ? | 14:48 |
| mihu | AchipA: "mount" says "/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc2 type vfat" | 14:49 |
| Stskeeps | AchipA: can you give a quick summary of what you're trying to do? | 14:49 |
| AchipA | Stskeeps: just finishing a post on talk... a bit lenghty to post, but if you're interested, why not | 14:49 |
| AchipA | (and yes, it's probably dangerous as hell ;) ) | 14:49 |
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| RockyM | juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html | 14:50 |
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| Stskeeps | AchipA: you can't possibly have done crazier things than rest of community.. | 14:51 |
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| AchipA | Stskeeps: :D | 14:52 |
| AchipA | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=333493 | 14:53 |
| AchipA | it's not THAT bad, actually | 14:53 |
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| woglinde | jo | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | AchipA: oh, hi atilla | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | AchipA: you did see the whole /opt discussion? | 14:54 |
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| javispedro | AchipA: please do. :) | 14:54 |
| woglinde | he javis | 14:55 |
| javispedro | this is a nice proposal if we can get n8x0s to mirror the fremantle layout | 14:55 |
| javispedro | hello | 14:55 |
| AchipA | yes, actually that sparked the whole idea, originally this was a loop device that had bundled all the qt stuff, but thought a more generic approach - like mirroring what fremantle does can be useful... | 14:56 |
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| Stskeeps | AchipA: maemo-optify + appspace (dm-loop on internal SD) should be quite good. | 14:56 |
| javispedro | there's a problem with that | 14:57 |
| javispedro | unmounting | 14:57 |
| AchipA | I know, I have to hook in to ke-recv | 14:57 |
| AchipA | been there, done that | 14:57 |
| javispedro | :) | 14:57 |
| Stskeeps | meh.. same as with swap | 14:57 |
| AchipA | the osso-mmc-(u)mount thing | 14:57 |
| javispedro | i'd prefer an extra partition, but I guess a file is easier | 14:57 |
| Stskeeps | AchipA: i would avoid FAT+symlink completely | 14:58 |
| AchipA | that's why I want to experimnt with both, see which ones proves better | 14:58 |
| AchipA | Stskeeps: yeah, that's a bit a black sheep, but it IS the easiest one... | 14:58 |
| Stskeeps | AchipA: admittedly. ext2resize or fat resize comes to mind.. | 15:00 |
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| AchipA | BTW talked to some Nokians, they preferred the loop file approach, too | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | definately dm-loop then.. | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | it's way faster | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | AchipA: it would definately help to go with maemo-optify or /opt approach | 15:02 |
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| Stskeeps | because if community SSU starts happening that might be a way too.. | 15:02 |
| *** JamieBennett1 is now known as JamieBennett | 15:03 | |
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| AchipA | Stskeeps: agreed, I will certainly take that into account | 15:06 |
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| vesa | is there a way to view the 'application install memory' from the terminal? | 15:10 |
| woglinde | vesa what? | 15:11 |
| woglinde | whats install memory? | 15:11 |
| vesa | ie. if one had accidentally filled the whole device memory with apps and now dpkg wont remove stuff cos theres no memory to write some logs... | 15:11 |
| woglinde | appmanager is using libdpkg as backend | 15:11 |
| woglinde | df -m | 15:11 |
| woglinde | try remove some bigger file your self | 15:12 |
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| woglinde | with rm | 15:12 |
| woglinde | and run dpkg again | 15:12 |
| vesa | dpkg: unable to open/create status database lockfile: No space left on device | 15:13 |
| kulve | andre__: thanks | 15:13 |
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| dirk2 | I know that it is a FAQ, but I can't remember the answer any more ;) Any option to test Moblin live image from http://moblin.org/downloads in a virtual machine? | 15:13 |
| woglinde | vesa as I said | 15:13 |
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| woglinde | use rm manually and then dpkg if you have enough space again | 15:14 |
| dirk2 | uhh, sorry, wrong window, mixed moblin and maemo ;) | 15:14 |
| woglinde | dirk2 *g* | 15:14 |
| AchipA | or just move them to /media/mmc if you're unsire if it cna be safley deleted... | 15:14 |
| AchipA | wow, i cna type 300 wrods pre minuet ! | 15:15 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 15:15 |
| lcuk2 | AchipA, as long as those words are asdf jkl; then so can i ;) | 15:15 |
| lcuk2 | mornin jaffa | 15:15 |
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| woglinde | he luck | 15:16 |
| woglinde | hi jaffa | 15:16 |
| vesa | woglinde: right, right. thanks. i'm not too hot on *nix stuff =P | 15:16 |
| lcuk2 | woglinde, i find "rm /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb" to be easiest way to clean some space off - is that viable? | 15:16 |
| RST38h | He is ircing from his router!!! | 15:16 |
| woglinde | lcuk apt-get clean | 15:16 |
| woglinde | does it too | 15:16 |
| AchipA | lcuk2: there is an easier way for that, 'apt-get clean' | 15:16 |
| lcuk2 | cool, so that could make him some space.. | 15:16 |
| woglinde | rst hehe | 15:16 |
| RST38h | Flood him quick, let us see how much that wrt54g can take! | 15:16 |
| AchipA | :) | 15:16 |
| woglinde | rst *g* | 15:17 |
| lcuk2 | without digging through random folders | 15:17 |
| woglinde | lcuk dpkg -L packageIwanttoremove gives some clues too :) | 15:17 |
| AchipA | occasionally 'apt-get autoremove' gets handy, too :) | 15:17 |
| lcuk2 | thats not what this guy is having problems with tho | 15:18 |
| lcuk2 | just out of space | 15:18 |
| woglinde | AchipA aeh | 15:18 |
| woglinde | that not always works | 15:18 |
| lcuk2 | randomly removing files is fun.. | 15:18 |
| woglinde | lcuk rm init | 15:18 |
| AchipA | autoremove, not randomremove :) | 15:18 |
| AchipA | it just rids you of libs no package depends on | 15:18 |
| AchipA | (which is pretty safe if you installed all your stuff from packages, which you should :) ) | 15:19 |
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| woglinde | hm wrt reminds me | 15:20 |
| woglinde | to package batman for the n's | 15:20 |
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| lcuk2 | oh no, will the caped crusader escape the clutches of the evil woglinde in time. | 15:23 |
| lcuk2 | will robin get a date with RST38h, | 15:24 |
| woglinde | http://www.open-mesh.net/browser/trunk/batman | 15:24 |
| lcuk2 | find out on next weeks exciting expisode of batman | 15:24 |
| RST38h | lcuk: You mean, the Penguin couldn't off him and now you want ME to finish the job? | 15:25 |
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| lcuk2 | of course | 15:25 |
| lcuk2 | woglinde, that doesnt tell me what batman is tho | 15:25 |
| woglinde | mesh routing protocol | 15:26 |
| woglinde | with lower overhead then olsr | 15:26 |
| lcuk2 | neat | 15:26 |
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| lcuk2 | hi wazd | 15:26 |
| woglinde | yeah and the suckers only posted compiled binary | 15:26 |
| woglinde | for the n's | 15:26 |
| woglinde | doing not the right way and making a package of it | 15:27 |
| * lcuk2 nods | 15:27 | |
| lcuk2 | i bet i cant use the wifi and the mobile interface at the same time | 15:27 |
| lcuk2 | to allow a mesh and also exit ports | 15:27 |
| woglinde | hm I will test it next week I think | 15:28 |
| woglinde | recipe for oe I already made | 15:29 |
| woglinde | or better I updated it | 15:29 |
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| lcuk2 | cool | 15:30 |
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| woglinde | hm let me see how sb2 worked again | 15:31 |
| woglinde | its some month I last used it | 15:31 |
| woglinde | ah fine | 15:32 |
| woglinde | debian package is already there | 15:32 |
| vesa | woglinde: thanks, worked \o/ | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | woglinde: mesh over FM, wifi and bluetooth ;p | 15:38 |
| woglinde | aeh | 15:38 |
| woglinde | usbnet? | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | that too :P | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | (there's a FM receiver and FM transmitter, both with RDS data it seems) | 15:38 |
| doffm | Hello all. | 15:39 |
| ab | well, transmitter puts "NOKIA" on my 13 years old cd/fm player's screen in a car | 15:39 |
| doffm | Does anyone know the API for starting the browser? | 15:39 |
| doffm | I need to launch a browser from my app when a user clicks a link. | 15:39 |
| doffm | Any ideas? | 15:39 |
| woglinde | doffm read the dev mailinglist | 15:40 |
| woglinde | the topic was discussed there | 15:40 |
| doffm | woglinde: Thanks | 15:40 |
| doffm | woglinde: How recently do you think? | 15:41 |
| woglinde | last 2 weeks | 15:41 |
| frals | crap, fm transmitters are appearently illegal in sweden... :[ guess its hw disabled on the swedish version of the n900 | 15:41 |
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| woglinde | frals intressting | 15:41 |
| frals | on the other hand the keyboard looks to be with the nordic layout (ie same for all nordic countries), wonder if its legal in fin/dk/nor | 15:42 |
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| RST38h | they say it is | 15:42 |
| Stskeeps | not sure about dk but who cares.. | 15:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:43 |
| * RST38h again considers mass smuggling US N900s into starved Europe | 15:44 | |
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| RST38h | Directional keys, working transmitter, etc =) | 15:44 |
| Myrtti | it's legal in finland atleast | 15:44 |
| javispedro | what what? | 15:44 |
| frals | cool Myrtti, guess ill have to take the boat over to helsinki and grab one if mine is hw disabled | 15:45 |
| RST38h | javis: BTW, I managed to start it in 400x210 mode from command line | 15:45 |
| RST38h | javis: You are right, the start menu cannot be clicked =( | 15:45 |
| javispedro | yeah, i was planning to just increase the height of that button up to ridiculous values | 15:46 |
| woglinde | its not illegal here | 15:47 |
| RST38h | javis: No way to relayout the window? | 15:47 |
| javispedro | I don't expect this solution to be flawless until a long, long time | 15:47 |
| RST38h | javis: just make it fill the whole screen | 15:47 |
| javispedro | RST38h: and reposition all the widgets. | 15:47 |
| RST38h | yes | 15:47 |
| RST38h | there will be the total of 3 dialogs | 15:48 |
| RST38h | Main, Options, Startup | 15:48 |
| RST38h | (maybe the Advanced Opts dialog as well) | 15:48 |
| javispedro | there's a hundred of them. | 15:48 |
| RST38h | others are small and harmless | 15:48 |
| RST38h | and if they appear in the game, they can be moved around | 15:48 |
| javispedro | news options dialog, | 15:48 |
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| Khertan | Hello everybody ! | 15:50 |
| woglinde | hi khertan | 15:50 |
| javispedro | hello | 15:50 |
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| woglinde | ah finde directfb.org is back again | 15:50 |
| doffm | woglinde: Thanks for the pointer. Found the e-mail and the D-Bus interface. | 15:51 |
| Khertan | hum ... seems to be times to port my applet to fremantle | 15:51 |
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| woglinde | doffm .) | 15:51 |
| frals | hmm, need to see if nokia has disabled the fm transmitters on the swedish versions of the other nseries with one | 15:51 |
| woglinde | Khertan hm yo | 15:51 |
| Khertan | someone with an n900 can say me if there is some informations about of network cellular data transfered in /proc ? | 15:52 |
| Stskeeps | maybe in net interfaces | 15:52 |
| Khertan | yep | 15:53 |
| Khertan | but without a device i can't see :) | 15:53 |
| woglinde | Khertan what an applett you have? | 15:53 |
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| woglinde | jo qewerty | 15:54 |
| qwerty12 | Hiya, woglinde | 15:54 |
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| frals | no indications theyve hw blocked the previous models in sweden \o/ | 15:55 |
| Khertan | applet ? | 15:55 |
| Khertan | i have ? | 15:55 |
| Khertan | none yet ... | 15:55 |
| Khertan | i ll you port hometools for the moments | 15:55 |
| Khertan | and homeip | 15:55 |
| Khertan | as many ask it :) | 15:55 |
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| zuii | hi guys | 16:02 |
| Khertan | ok ... nice backup softwares | 16:04 |
| Khertan | i ve lost my sources | 16:04 |
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| Khertan | pffff | 16:04 |
| woglinde | ????? | 16:04 |
| zuii | I want to write some chinese wiki on maemo.org,could i do this? | 16:04 |
| woglinde | how can you list it with git? | 16:04 |
| woglinde | lost | 16:04 |
| Khertan | i didn't use git | 16:05 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:05 |
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| Khertan | nor svn | 16:05 |
| woglinde | your fault | 16:05 |
| Khertan | too complex to use while in the train without any connection | 16:05 |
| woglinde | ???? | 16:05 |
| woglinde | git is the best for it | 16:05 |
| woglinde | git only works local | 16:05 |
| woglinde | until you push it to a public repos | 16:06 |
| woglinde | cd foo | 16:06 |
| woglinde | git init | 16:06 |
| woglinde | off you go | 16:06 |
| Khertan | maybe i should take a look at git | 16:06 |
| Khertan | i didn't know it | 16:06 |
| Khertan | available on diablo ? | 16:06 |
| keesj | hg is easyer for personal stuff | 16:06 |
| woglinde | yeah thats why I am telling you | 16:06 |
| woglinde | keesj? | 16:07 |
| woglinde | hg init or git init dont matters | 16:07 |
| woglinde | one is python other perl and c | 16:07 |
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| * lcuk2 hits khertan on the head with a backup tape. ALWAYS. BACK. UP. EVERYTHING. | 16:08 | |
| Khertan | lcuk2: the destruction was made by the backup softwares | 16:08 |
| lcuk2 | Khertan, yes, git is available in diablo | 16:08 |
| Khertan | so perfect | 16:08 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:08 |
| lcuk2 | but it does not had https support | 16:08 |
| Khertan | not a problem | 16:08 |
| lcuk2 | you can use it happily with source code repositories like github | 16:08 |
| Khertan | my fai too | 16:08 |
| lcuk2 | (i do all the time from device) | 16:08 |
| Khertan | oh great | 16:09 |
| keesj | OMG I didn't know hg was python | 16:09 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:09 |
| lcuk2 | yeah :) | 16:09 |
| lcuk2 | git-core | 16:09 |
| Khertan | oh ! if hg was python i ll take a look at hg ! | 16:09 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:09 |
| lcuk2 | i think its in extras | 16:09 |
| keesj | http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/ | 16:09 |
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| Khertan | hum where does i can select hildon home plugin to be displayed in the fremantle sdk ? | 16:18 |
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| Khertan | hum .... this sdk is clearly not for python developpers ! | 16:22 |
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| RST38h | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/25/dodgy_pharma_spam_economics/ | 16:23 |
| RST38h | (the translation of the term is apparently incorrect, but the statistics surprise) | 16:24 |
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| Khertan | a leaked photo of the n920 ! ->>> http://mobile.softpedia.com/images/phones/650_0.jpg | 16:28 |
| Khertan | ok it s a nec n920 ... not a Nokia NSerie 920 | 16:29 |
| Myrtti | *snerk* | 16:29 |
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| keesj | n920 is not top search query on google , what is happening guys :p | 16:31 |
| keesj | twitter down, slashdot slashdoted | 16:31 |
| Khertan | héhé | 16:31 |
| Khertan | 5 try to download the vmware image of the fremantle sdk failed ! | 16:32 |
| keesj | that's the butterfly effect | 16:32 |
| Khertan | and download can't be resume ... due to stupid acceptation of the agrements | 16:32 |
| Khertan | someone have it can push a torrent ? | 16:33 |
| keesj | http://current.com/1l6ju4c Nokia N920 Concept ? How Nokia should approach a QWERTY keyboard? nice pic, round bordered lcd | 16:34 |
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| asj_wrk- | I don't see why people want space in the middle so much | 16:35 |
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| Khertan | look like a car glass mirror | 16:35 |
| Khertan | space in the middle of what ? | 16:36 |
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| Khertan | ah space key :) | 16:36 |
| Khertan | sorry :) | 16:36 |
| asj_wrk- | the keyboard, instead of offset to one side or another | 16:36 |
| Khertan | don t know | 16:36 |
| glass | possibility of hitting it with either hand | 16:36 |
| Khertan | maybe to be available for the two hands | 16:36 |
| asj_wrk- | glass: but normally it's so small it's a strech for either hand | 16:37 |
| Khertan | which is something that i think is useless but i just see that i use it on my computer keyboard with the two hands | 16:37 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:37 |
| glass | normally as in where? mobiles? workstations? | 16:37 |
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| glass | i used to have a keyboard that was broken so that you had to hit exactly in the middle of the space bar. sucked. | 16:38 |
| Khertan | anyway the keyb sucks in the png ... no ctrl keys ! | 16:38 |
| Khertan | on of the most important one ! | 16:38 |
| glass | dunno whats nokia about the concept either since it's just some guy | 16:38 |
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| glass | i want an omap3 device shaped/buttoned like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/glasslife/3941163029/sizes/l/ fuck qwerty, i want to play! | 16:39 |
| woglinde | glass pandora? | 16:40 |
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| glass | woglinde: are they shipping? and yeah, add a phone to it too | 16:40 |
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| woglinde | phone is overrated | 16:40 |
| keesj | glass: buttons! | 16:40 |
| woglinde | hm seems no shipping | 16:41 |
| glass | woglinde: basically i'd be happy with 5800 if it had a dpad + couple of buttons | 16:41 |
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| woglinde | http://openpandora.org/ | 16:41 |
| woglinde | hm case is missing | 16:42 |
| woglinde | all other components seems to be ready | 16:43 |
| keesj | glass: wanna help me design the push_nbutton? | 16:43 |
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| woglinde | re javis | 16:44 |
| javispedro | hiya | 16:44 |
| glass | keesj: what is push_nbutton ? | 16:44 |
| glass | keesj: i need sketching ideas anyhow | 16:44 |
| keesj | a push n900 project to add buttons to the n900 http://wiki.github.com/keesj/push_nbutton | 16:44 |
| keesj | I am really bad artist so sketching would be great | 16:45 |
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| glass | keesj: yeh it looks like something worthwhile to pursue | 16:46 |
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| lcuk2 | glass mm sketching ideas? | 16:46 |
| keesj | pupnik_ already gave some valuable feedback | 16:46 |
| lcuk2 | keesj, the push button name is even good! | 16:47 |
| lcuk2 | what games are folks going to do with it in the stores tho | 16:47 |
| lcuk2 | to make it useful | 16:47 |
| glass | lcuk2: i'm trying to hone my skills as modeller, but need ideas to draw | 16:48 |
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| lcuk2 | cool | 16:48 |
| lcuk2 | what do you like modelling in? | 16:49 |
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| lcuk2 | apart from pencil | 16:49 |
| glass | lcuk2: moray, then model in povray(using a megapov binary at the moment) | 16:49 |
| glass | lcuk2: and well. i don't really use a pencil that much | 16:50 |
| lcuk2 | have you considered how you could do it on the nokia devices - draw your nice models whilst sat on the bus etc | 16:50 |
| glass | lcuk2: a bit, but a keyboard and a mouse with buttons are essential to the workflow, to rotate around the stuff and so forth | 16:51 |
| keesj | that is what I do most lcuk's note taking progam | 16:52 |
| lcuk2 | thats only because the software is designed as such - and dont get me wrong, desktop sw is very well suited | 16:52 |
| glass | lcuk2: i prefer to stick to the non-polygon primitives too.. scales to high resolution prettier | 16:52 |
| lcuk2 | "non-polygon primatives" hmm? | 16:53 |
| lcuk2 | everything is made up from polygons | 16:53 |
| glass | lcuk2: i mean, no triangle shit. | 16:53 |
| lcuk2 | so flowing curves and natural lines | 16:53 |
| glass | lcuk2: not in raytracer like povray.. a sphere is a sphere | 16:53 |
| lardman | ~lart DCOM | 16:53 |
| * infobot beats DCOM severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken | 16:53 | |
| keesj | I tired blender and wing3d this week-end but I really suck at it | 16:53 |
| javispedro | wow. | 16:54 |
| * javispedro was just looking to a dialog "Ok to install DCOM98?" | 16:54 | |
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| keesj | LeoCAD is simple enough for me | 16:54 |
| glass | somehow i never got into blender | 16:54 |
| lardman | javispedro: have fun ;) | 16:54 |
| lcuk2 | first ever app i wrote was in dcom | 16:54 |
| lardman | javispedro: are we talking the same M$ wonderfulness? | 16:54 |
| lcuk2 | network monitor - installed on 2000 machines | 16:54 |
| javispedro | lardman: guess not, i'm playing with crossover | 16:54 |
| javispedro | (aka wine) | 16:54 |
| inz | keesj, leocad is tha bestest =) | 16:54 |
| lardman | lcuk2: trying to get MATLAB to access an NT machine and open some sw using DCOM, can start the app, but can't access any methods | 16:55 |
| lcuk2 | then we found out dcom was shat and didnt scale like it was meant to and didnt release objects properly so i rewrite the transport layer into standard winsock ;) | 16:55 |
| lardman | yeah, looks like I'll have to write a server and use tcpip to communicate | 16:55 |
| lcuk2 | lardman, is the binary compiled correctly as activex exe and has all the registration sorted and permissions set | 16:55 |
| lardman | is commercial sw | 16:56 |
| lcuk2 | my problem was instentiate, do job, shutdown. and it never shutdown cleanly | 16:56 |
| lcuk2 | there were numerous pitfalls - lardman, you are right - simplify | 16:56 |
| lardman | mine shuts down ok, bloody thing works on XP, just not on NT | 16:56 |
| * lcuk2 nods | 16:56 | |
| lcuk2 | i feel your pain | 16:57 |
| lardman | grrrr | 16:57 |
| lardman | :) | 16:57 |
| lcuk2 | the domain settings will be mucking with it | 16:57 |
| lardman | nah, been through all that, otherwise it can't even start the remote server | 16:57 |
| lardman | and that's also very fun on NT, dcomcnfg, etc | 16:57 |
| * lcuk2 cowers | 16:58 | |
| lardman | and reboot after each change to check if it's worked, wonderful! | 16:58 |
| lcuk2 | i had not thought about such things for nearly 10 years - ive got cold sweats remembering | 16:59 |
| lardman | :) | 16:59 |
| javispedro | sounds like fun | 16:59 |
| lardman | the silly thing is, I'll use a local app as my server (and have to pass everything across myself) and it will all work fine, stupid NT | 17:00 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: question: why are you using NT? :) | 17:00 |
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| lardman | ir camera control pc, old sw, old drivers, etc | 17:01 |
| Khertan | (15:32:20) Khertan: 5 try to download the vmware image of the fremantle sdk failed ! | 17:01 |
| Khertan | (15:32:44) Khertan: and download can't be resume ... due to stupid acceptation of the agrements | 17:01 |
| Khertan | (15:33:48) Khertan: someone have it can push a torrent ? | 17:01 |
| Khertan | 6 now | 17:01 |
| lcuk2 | lardman, in the old engineering block the it guys would shudder at the thought of servicing one of the win 3.11 machines | 17:02 |
| * RST38h prays to the Tentacled One to make the guy who came up with x86 segments hiccup every time somebody curses them | 17:02 | |
| lcuk2 | and to this day i bet that machine is in use | 17:02 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: I have heard you. | 17:03 |
| lardman | lcuk2: yeah, we have some dos machines I'm trying to phase out by rewriting the sw to run on something modern | 17:03 |
| lcuk2 | computers are tools | 17:03 |
| jrocha | lizardo, hello | 17:03 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: I know some OS designers who like segments ;) | 17:03 |
| lizardo | jrocha: hi | 17:03 |
| jrocha | lizardo, it's me, your favorite complainer :D | 17:03 |
| jrocha | lizardo, I've noticed that I cannot set an input mode on an Entry | 17:04 |
| jrocha | is this a known issue? | 17:04 |
| lizardo | jrocha: can you provide an example snippet (pastebin) ? | 17:04 |
| lizardo | jrocha: I really don't know much of Hildon, so I need actual code to check against the binding sources :) | 17:05 |
| jrocha | lizardo, I don't have a standalone example but it's really easy | 17:05 |
| jrocha | check this: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/gtk/GtkEntry.html#hildon-gtk-entry-set-input-mode | 17:06 |
| lizardo | jrocha: but certainly it is not known, we don't have any known issues, just the many yet to be discovered ones :) | 17:06 |
| * lardman reaches for MSDN to work out how to create his own out-of-process activex exe | 17:06 | |
| lardman | and curses M$ while he's at it | 17:06 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, I would expect to do: entry = hildon.Entry ...... ; entry.set_input_mode(X) | 17:07 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: and, the "nice" hildon_gtk_* functions... they are the nightmare of any binding author | 17:07 |
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| lizardo | s/and/ah/ | 17:07 |
| infobot | lizardo meant: jrocha: ah, the "nice" hildon_gtk_* functions... they are the nightmare of any binding author | 17:07 |
| jrocha | lizardo, I can only imagine :D | 17:07 |
| lizardo | WTF hehe | 17:07 |
| lizardo | jrocha: they are like patches to GTK IMHO, but without actually changing GTK :/ | 17:08 |
| lizardo | jrocha: and, strangely enough, this one is on **GTK** and not on hildon like the other hildon_gtk_* I worked with | 17:09 |
| lizardo | so we would have actually touch the pygtk sources to add support for it | 17:09 |
| jrocha | :) | 17:09 |
| jrocha | sounds like fun | 17:09 |
| lizardo | jrocha: care to open a bug about it ? | 17:10 |
| * RST38h feels like TI is taunting him: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/25/ti-joins-hp-creates-official-business-calculator-port-for-iphon/ | 17:10 | |
| Khertan | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Splitted.zip.001<<<< does there is a direct download link ? | 17:10 |
| jrocha | lizardo, I'll do it | 17:10 |
| lizardo | jrocha: so we will provide support for it on the next pygtk revamp | 17:10 |
| RST38h | Screwing with my brain, ain't they? | 17:10 |
| Khertan | something that could be use to resume it in case of fail !? | 17:10 |
| RST38h | Sending subliminal messages! | 17:10 |
| jrocha | lizardo, could you tell me your components? | 17:10 |
| lizardo | jrocha: https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=PyMaemo | 17:11 |
| lizardo | jrocha: we don't have any components | 17:11 |
| jrocha | ok | 17:11 |
| lizardo | jrocha: just drop it there in this product and put a nice summary that we can easily associate with Hildon+Gtk :) | 17:12 |
| lizardo | jrocha: we decided to not use components because they might be very "dynamic" in PyMaemo, as we host many packages | 17:12 |
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| jrocha | ok | 17:13 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, I think the input modes are really important | 17:15 |
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| jrocha | since, for example, there are no spinbuttons on hildon, people can assign a NUMERIC mode to an entry in order to make it only select numbers | 17:16 |
| lizardo | jrocha: ok, so be sure to set that on the bug (priority field) | 17:16 |
| jrocha | it's high! | 17:16 |
| jrocha | :D | 17:16 |
| jrocha | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5199 | 17:16 |
| lizardo | jrocha: we have plans to work on pygtk on the next weeks , so I'll add this feature to that too :) | 17:17 |
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| Khertan | seems that gtksourceview2 make python segfault | 17:17 |
| Khertan | :) | 17:17 |
| Khertan | nice | 17:17 |
| lizardo | jrocha: tks | 17:18 |
| Khertan | but does this only happen on fremantle sdk ? | 17:18 |
| Khertan | someone have try pygtkeditor on a n900 ? | 17:18 |
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| Macer | haha | 17:28 |
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| Macer | the seamstress looks pretty funny | 17:28 |
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| Macer | wow house sucked | 17:29 |
| Macer | heh | 17:29 |
| Macer | it was like a bad hack of one flew over the cookoo's nest | 17:30 |
| frals | house is awesome! | 17:30 |
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| Macer | i didn't say the show sucked. i meant the episode with him in the nuthouse | 17:30 |
| Macer | it was kind of a shitty episode | 17:31 |
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| frals | i found it decent, was a pretty good season opener... on the other hand i havnt seen one flew over the cuckoo's nest ;o | 17:33 |
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| * lardman grumbles at porting Python code to C code | 18:34 | |
| ccooke | lardman: that can be unpleasant :-/ | 18:38 |
| lardman | I'm sure it won;t be too bad, html grabbing and parsing, just a pain to have to write it from a lower level | 18:40 |
| lcuk2 | libraries and functions | 18:41 |
| lcuk2 | high level api | 18:42 |
| lardman | yeah, just have to find some | 18:42 |
| lardman | Google! | 18:42 |
| lcuk2 | write a google parser in c | 18:42 |
| lcuk2 | and try to use it to find a html parser | 18:42 |
| lardman | libcurl + libxml I gues | 18:44 |
| lardman | s | 18:44 |
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| * ccooke sits in Euston station wondering what to do for the next two hours | 18:45 | |
| qwerty12 | Chat on #maemo? =) | 18:46 |
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| ccooke | qwerty12: well, it's a definite *option* :-) | 18:46 |
| qwerty12 | hehe | 18:46 |
| lardman | 2hrs? going off-peak? | 18:46 |
| ccooke | if I can find a comfortable chair, I may even do some coding :-) | 18:46 |
| ccooke | lardman: yeah. I usually book in advance, but it's been a busy week | 18:47 |
| lardman | in which case s/chair/pub | 18:47 |
| ccooke | heh | 18:47 |
| ccooke | maybe in a bit | 18:48 |
| lardman | :) | 18:48 |
| lardman | same here | 18:48 |
| ccooke | lardman: Euston or somewhere else? :-) | 18:48 |
| lardman | somewhere else - am in Bath | 18:49 |
| lardman | not the bath either | 18:49 |
| lardman | :) | 18:49 |
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| ccooke | of course, the real question is: Will my laptop battery *last* two hours? | 18:50 |
| lardman | I was very impressed with my wife's Samsung N110, battery lasts for ever | 18:50 |
| lardman | wonder if I could install Linux on it without her noticing, and bring it to the summit.... | 18:51 |
| ccooke | my laptops are monstrosities :-) | 18:51 |
| lardman | I've got an old one that reduces my gas bill | 18:51 |
| lardman | need asbestos trousers to use it mind you | 18:52 |
| ccooke | I've spent enough time contracting that the idea of not having a good laptop I can provide for a future contract worries me | 18:52 |
| ccooke | (even though I'm happily in a perm job now) | 18:52 |
| ccooke | and I've had to do a lot of high-end stuff for work - mucking about with performance testing different hypervisors. Oh, and I'm huge - the only laptops I can use comfortably are 17" | 18:53 |
| ccooke | Add that together and you get monstrous desktop replacements with tons of power and hardly any battery life | 18:53 |
| lardman | I only use a laptop to tweak presentations and check email | 18:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: car battery + inverter | 18:53 |
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| ccooke | SpeedEvil: I would liek to introduce you to the concept of "Portable" :-) | 18:54 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: I had a PC running in the back of a car doing that | 18:54 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: not good when switching the car on/off though | 18:54 |
| * ccooke can happily carry a 17" beast on my back - the advantage of being huge is that what you can carry comfortably scales, too :-) | 18:54 | |
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| florian | hi dneary | 18:59 |
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| * lardman wonders why few people seem to try parsing Amazon with C | 18:59 | |
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| lcuk2 | lardman | 19:02 |
| lcuk2 | lots of people parse amazon using c | 19:02 |
| lardman | probably the same reason people don't usually beat themselves with spiky sticks | 19:02 |
| lardman | really? | 19:03 |
| lardman | where? | 19:03 |
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| lcuk2 | internet explorer, firefox, etc all have parsers wrote in c | 19:03 |
| javispedro | (or c++) | 19:03 |
| lcuk2 | ofc | 19:03 |
| lardman | hmm | 19:03 |
| lcuk2 | arent there libraries for accessing the DOM | 19:04 |
| lcuk2 | libwww springs to mind, but im not sure whether im right | 19:04 |
| lardman | yeah, but you need a username, so not sure it's great for an application | 19:04 |
| dneary | hi florian | 19:04 |
| lardman | libtidy is another | 19:04 |
| lcuk2 | mmm "need a username" you mean cookie management for actual downloading? | 19:05 |
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| lcuk2 | thats different and part of ummmmm whatever that library is | 19:05 |
| lardman | Amazon web services? | 19:05 |
| * lcuk2 hates his memory | 19:05 | |
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| lardman | not to worry, back to ActiveX for me :( | 19:06 |
| lcuk2 | curl | 19:07 |
| lardman | yeah libcurl looks good for the downloading | 19:07 |
| lcuk2 | libcurl - its what c apps use for downloading and it can access things with cookies and set params and stuff | 19:07 |
| lcuk2 | then you pass the downloaded file to one of the DOM modellers and read off from there | 19:08 |
| lardman | what's a dom modeller? | 19:08 |
| lardman | or rather what lib provides one? | 19:08 |
| lcuk2 | im sure libwww does it | 19:09 |
| lcuk2 | something to take a html file and give a DOM tree | 19:09 |
| lardman | yeah ok, so it parses the data and then you can get bits back | 19:10 |
| lardman | that's what I was calling a parser | 19:10 |
| lcuk2 | yeah | 19:10 |
| lcuk2 | my head is completely gone this afternoon tho | 19:10 |
| lcuk2 | if its sml, that should be easier | 19:11 |
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| lcuk2 | xml | 19:11 |
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| frals | anyone here with a n900 that could answer on how often you accidently answer a call with the phone in pocket/while taking it up from your pocket? | 19:13 |
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| lcuk2 | if im taking it out of my pocket to answer a call, what does it matter | 19:13 |
| lcuk2 | its a problem if it answers without you knowing | 19:13 |
| lcuk2 | but thats never happened | 19:14 |
| lardman | I wonder if the proximity sensor keeps the screen locked.... | 19:14 |
| frals | well if you pull it out to check whos calling, might be someone you wanna ignore or smth like that | 19:14 |
| lcuk2 | i dunno - my biggest gripe is volume of the ringer | 19:14 |
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| lcuk2 | i need a loud one to hear it | 19:14 |
| lcuk2 | i turned off vibrate | 19:14 |
| * lcuk2 should turn it back on | 19:15 | |
| ccooke | lcuk2: I'd have thought the speakers would be loud enough? | 19:15 |
| lcuk2 | E_USERERROR | 19:15 |
| frals | roger | 19:15 |
| frals | :D | 19:15 |
| lcuk2 | ccooke, im half deaf as well as got no memory ;) | 19:15 |
| frals | i got yelled at for having my n95 on the loudest volume :( | 19:15 |
| lcuk2 | it also helps to have a recognisable ringtone | 19:17 |
| lcuk2 | on my old phone i had the same one for about 18 months | 19:17 |
| woglinde | re | 19:17 |
| lcuk2 | now this keeps runing and i hear it and wonder if they are ever gonna answer it | 19:17 |
| frals | :D | 19:17 |
| lcuk2 | ringing | 19:17 |
| woglinde | bingbing | 19:17 |
| lcuk2 | actually, it was the knight rider theme :D | 19:18 |
| woglinde | uahahauaa | 19:18 |
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| lcuk2 | and text messages were "close encounters" notes | 19:18 |
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| metRo_ | hy, i'm trying to downalod the maemo-sdk-0.6.torrent at https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=277&release_id=1669 | 19:19 |
| metRo_ | i'm usign utorrent | 19:19 |
| metRo_ | but it's didn't start yet | 19:19 |
| metRo_ | :S | 19:19 |
| woglinde | hm sdk-0.6? isnt that old? | 19:19 |
| metRo_ | i don't know | 19:20 |
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| *** Cut-R changes topic to "BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS MANIPULATEURS MENTEURS FILS DE PUTES ENCULÉS TROUS DU CUL MAGOUILLEURS ABUSEURS D'ENFANTS !!!" | 19:21 | |
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| metRo_ | i'm starting at maemo to try to learn something before submit my idea to nokia n900 push | 19:21 |
| javispedro | W.T.F. | 19:21 |
| metRo_ | i have some electronics skills | 19:21 |
| *** javispedro changes topic to "something else" | 19:21 | |
| woglinde | hms | 19:21 |
| woglinde | oh | 19:21 |
| metRo_ | about programing just c/c++ at window | 19:21 |
| metRo_ | s | 19:21 |
| woglinde | someone forgot to save the topic setting | 19:21 |
| qwerty12 | #maemo - the channel for pedos | 19:21 |
| javispedro | does anyone have the original topic? | 19:21 |
| *** woglinde changes topic to "Topic for #maemo: Welcome to #maemo | N900 and Maemo 5 announced @ http://maemo.nokia.com | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo Community council election -> http://tinyurl.com/n9j9pa | Maemo 5 will not be available for 770/n8x0, use Mer instead" | 19:22 | |
| javispedro | wogline++ | 19:22 |
| javispedro | ypps | 19:22 |
| javispedro | woglinde++ | 19:22 |
| woglinde | praise irsse | 19:22 |
| woglinde | aerh irssi | 19:22 |
| javispedro | :) | 19:22 |
| woglinde | hm | 19:22 |
| woglinde | whats the channel flag | 19:22 |
| metRo_ | so, do you know any image with ubuntu and maemo sdk and tools to start programing? | 19:22 |
| Corsac | +nst | 19:23 |
| metRo_ | Or anyone want to give part of my team | 19:23 |
| metRo_ | ? | 19:23 |
| woglinde | metro oh it was the vmware image? | 19:23 |
| woglinde | metro personal I use sdk+ | 19:23 |
| Corsac | woglinde: irssi can rescussite the topic? | 19:23 |
| metRo_ | yes | 19:23 |
| woglinde | corsac I can scroll above | 19:23 |
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| lbt | anyone heard of Moblin? | 19:23 |
| woglinde | lbt yes | 19:23 |
| Corsac | ha, and you have topicdiff? :) | 19:23 |
| woglinde | since over a year | 19:23 |
| lbt | apparently they have a dev area called "The Moblin GARAGE" | 19:24 |
| Corsac | topicdiff just rocks | 19:24 |
| lbt | upstarts | 19:24 |
| woglinde | lbt why not? | 19:24 |
| woglinde | but they died for me after switching to rpm | 19:24 |
| javispedro | lbt: actually, it was discussed here yesterday iirc | 19:24 |
| lardman | how could Cut-R change the topic? | 19:24 |
| woglinde | metro trie http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/ | 19:25 |
| lbt | javispedro: eek ,..... old news then | 19:25 |
| woglinde | lardman everyone can | 19:25 |
| woglinde | the channel is not protected | 19:25 |
| woglinde | against it | 19:25 |
| lardman | really, that's bad form | 19:25 |
| javispedro | lbt: well, discussed in the night shift :) | 19:25 |
| lardman | I never realised | 19:25 |
| lbt | ah the creepy ones | 19:25 |
| metRo_ | i can install it at windows? | 19:25 |
| woglinde | metro hm no | 19:25 |
| javispedro | http://garage.moblin.org/ it seems more like an app store to me | 19:26 |
| woglinde | metro would be intressting if it would work on colinux | 19:26 |
| lbt | just reading Moblin 2 point zero http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@moblin.org/msg03182.html | 19:26 |
| metRo_ | something like wubi it's sufficiente? | 19:26 |
| woglinde | metro http://www.colinux.org/ | 19:26 |
| javispedro | metRo_: for windows you'll need vmware, colinux, or something like that. | 19:26 |
| javispedro | wubi should work doesn't it? it's pure ubuntu after all? | 19:27 |
| woglinde | hm qemu dont works under cygwin? | 19:27 |
| woglinde | I never tried | 19:27 |
| javispedro | woglinde: qemu works under mingw too. but what for? | 19:27 |
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| woglinde | javis? for installing sdk+ | 19:28 |
| metRo_ | so, if i use colinux i need an ubunut image with maemo sdk | 19:28 |
| javispedro | porting sb2 to windows. | 19:28 |
| metRo_ | to load on it | 19:28 |
| woglinde | javis nah | 19:28 |
| metRo_ | or i just can load an ubuntu image | 19:28 |
| javispedro | :) | 19:28 |
| metRo_ | and after install maeomo sdk | 19:28 |
| metRo_ | ? | 19:28 |
| woglinde | metro second one | 19:28 |
| metRo_ | ok, thanks | 19:28 |
| woglinde | I bet there is no colinux-image with sdk | 19:28 |
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| woglinde | but installing is not that hard | 19:28 |
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| metRo_ | i have to download the ubuntu image at http://sourceforge.net/projects/colinux/files/ ? | 19:30 |
| metRo_ | just 40 megas? | 19:30 |
| metRo_ | :S | 19:30 |
| woglinde | its compressed | 19:31 |
| woglinde | I think its 5 gb or so | 19:31 |
| javispedro | and probably minimal, without GUI | 19:31 |
| woglinde | in real | 19:31 |
| javispedro | 40 MiB -> 5 GiB ratio ??? | 19:31 |
| javispedro | ah, of a sparse file. | 19:31 |
| woglinde | but let me see | 19:31 |
| metRo_ | that doesn't have a GUI? | 19:31 |
| woglinde | 1gig | 19:31 |
| woglinde | its in the filename | 19:31 |
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| metRo_ | it's true | 19:32 |
| javispedro | because it's a sparsefile | 19:32 |
| metRo_ | can i make some questions just about if its possible to do in nokina n900? | 19:33 |
| woglinde | just ask | 19:33 |
| javispedro | shoot. | 19:33 |
| metRo_ | if i'm browsing and select a word with the mouse open a menu, it's possible to add a button to that menu? | 19:34 |
| metRo_ | per exempla | 19:34 |
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| metRo_ | i select "ball" and have an optin open it with aplication xpto | 19:35 |
| woglinde | mouse? | 19:35 |
| metRo_ | the pointer | 19:35 |
| woglinde | the n900 has a mouse? | 19:35 |
| javispedro | stylus? | 19:35 |
| metRo_ | that you can use in the browser | 19:35 |
| metRo_ | to select | 19:35 |
| javispedro | aaa | 19:35 |
| javispedro | but that's only in the browser. | 19:35 |
| metRo_ | i know | 19:35 |
| javispedro | (afaik) | 19:35 |
| metRo_ | but it's possible? | 19:35 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, xterm has it to | 19:36 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: a, good one :) | 19:36 |
| lbt | does anyone understand __force in gcc ? | 19:36 |
| woglinde | lbt no | 19:36 |
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| lbt | sorry, wrong chan | 19:37 |
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| metRo_ | "<woglinde> lbt no" it's for me? | 19:41 |
| javispedro | nope | 19:42 |
| metRo_ | oki | 19:42 |
| woglinde | it was for lbt | 19:42 |
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| javispedro | (as for myself, I don't know the answer) | 19:42 |
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| metRo_ | do you programer to maemo using python or c/c++? | 19:44 |
| woglinde | qt so c++ | 19:45 |
| metRo_ | why i have to choise one or another? | 19:45 |
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| woglinde | choice depends on many factors | 19:45 |
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| lardman | woglinde: there are Python-qt bindings aren;t there? | 19:46 |
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| woglinde | lardman yes but dont know if they work well on maemo | 19:47 |
| lardman | fair enough | 19:47 |
| woglinde | nokia brazil startet in owns python-qt bindings | 19:47 |
| metRo_ | i will want to use to bluethoot | 19:47 |
| woglinde | http://www.pyside.org/downloads/ | 19:49 |
| woglinde | hm oh | 19:49 |
| metRo_ | and i will want to connect the aplication to google maps apis per exemple. I will send a word(country) to google maps api to know the coordinates | 19:49 |
| woglinde | wrong link | 19:49 |
| metRo_ | Alguem fala portugues? | 19:49 |
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| woglinde | oh was the right link | 19:50 |
| woglinde | hms | 19:50 |
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| woglinde | *g* | 19:51 |
| woglinde | http://www.pyside.org/faq/ | 19:51 |
| Macer | damnit | 19:52 |
| Macer | my fucking server died on me again | 19:52 |
| Macer | i'm starting to think the ram is overheating | 19:52 |
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| Macer | the dimms are very hot | 19:52 |
| woglinde | macer haha | 19:52 |
| Macer | i'm going to have to get some new cpu fans and thermal compound | 19:53 |
| woglinde | byeone with headpipes | 19:53 |
| Macer | and see about getting some dimm heatsinks | 19:53 |
| woglinde | as I accendently did | 19:53 |
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| Macer | ugh | 19:53 |
| woglinde | now I dont can use dual channel ram | 19:53 |
| woglinde | because of the heatpipes | 19:53 |
| Macer | yeah? | 19:53 |
| Macer | i have 8 dimms in it | 19:53 |
| Macer | 8GB | 19:53 |
| Macer | so all the slots are full | 19:53 |
| Macer | they are ecc | 19:53 |
| woglinde | uh | 19:53 |
| Macer | socket 940 board | 19:54 |
| woglinde | ecc is not cheap | 19:54 |
| Macer | yeah i know | 19:54 |
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| Macer | i can't seem to get any type of log when it freezes either | 19:54 |
| * lcuk2 glares @ qwerty12 for getting there first as usual :P | 19:54 | |
| Macer | so i have no idea what is the actual cause | 19:54 |
| woglinde | when the hell kvm project will official release the para disk driver for windows | 19:54 |
| Macer | it seems like a heat problemw ith either the cpus or the dimms | 19:54 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk2: I'm in the South. I'll always be faster than you | 19:55 |
| * Macer watercools the entire system | 19:55 | |
| Macer | haha | 19:55 |
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| lcuk2 | yeah - you moved like lightening when crashanddie_ went to shake your hand | 19:55 |
| woglinde | hm on nov 6/7/8 I will be in cambridge | 19:55 |
| Macer | i should find some sort of nonconductivec plasma to pour all over it | 19:55 |
| Macer | or to submerge it in | 19:55 |
| Macer | :) | 19:55 |
| Macer | i wonder if anybody has ever tried something like that | 19:55 |
| lcuk2 | just use regular water | 19:55 |
| lcuk2 | it will be ok | 19:55 |
| Macer | some distilled water? :) | 19:55 |
| lcuk2 | theres tonnes of docs about full emersion cooling | 19:56 |
| Macer | it would still be nice to find a nonconductive liquid to cool it in | 19:56 |
| Macer | are there? | 19:56 |
| Macer | i've never seen a system modded in such a way | 19:56 |
| Macer | that would be awesome | 19:56 |
| javispedro | Macer: there a few youtube videos about a oil emersion cooling iirc | 19:57 |
| Macer | wow | 19:57 |
| javispedro | s/a/some | 19:57 |
| Macer | how well did it work? | 19:57 |
| lcuk2 | http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/27/1930214 | 19:57 |
| lcuk2 | http://electronics-cooling.com/articles/1996/may/may96_04.php | 19:57 |
| lcuk2 | http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/hardcorepc_reactor | 19:57 |
| lcuk2 | many many more | 19:58 |
| metRo_ | ok, i already have the ubuntu from http://www.colinux.org/ | 19:58 |
| lcuk2 | google is your guide | 19:58 |
| metRo_ | and now? | 19:58 |
| metRo_ | Ubuntu-9.04.ext3.1gb | 19:58 |
| Macer | heh | 19:58 |
| metRo_ | i have that? | 19:58 |
| metRo_ | ! | 19:58 |
| woglinde | you need to install colinux | 19:59 |
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| woglinde | and follow the beginnersguide to setup it right | 19:59 |
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| javispedro | eldar is truly a bit crazy | 20:03 |
| javispedro | he should stop trusting his "method" to identify nokia employees | 20:03 |
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| Macer | wow | 20:03 |
| Macer | that computer is awesome | 20:03 |
| Macer | the one submerged in the oil by hardcore computers | 20:04 |
| Macer | heh | 20:04 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, are you also a nokian now ? heheh | 20:04 |
| metRo_ | i'm complet lost trying to use the colinux | 20:04 |
| metRo_ | vmware it's free? | 20:04 |
| aSIMULAter | heh i was just reading that eldar review thread | 20:04 |
| metRo_ | or virtual box? | 20:04 |
| Macer | virtualbox is | 20:04 |
| * lbt glances at his Cray-1 submersible board | 20:04 | |
| Macer | lbt: heh | 20:04 |
| Macer | does it matter if a board is "submersible" or not? | 20:05 |
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| Macer | i mean wouldn't it really be a matter of the liquid used? | 20:05 |
| woglinde | metRo_ whats the problem with colinux? | 20:05 |
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| woglinde | metro too hard to follow a beginners guide? | 20:05 |
| Macer | as long as it is non-conductive the type of motherboard shouldn't matter should it? | 20:05 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: not yet. but I just saw a twitter comment about DrNokSnes being a "builtin game" :P | 20:05 |
| lbt | the board is solid copper - different heat flow to air cooling | 20:05 |
| Macer | lbt: oh | 20:05 |
| metRo_ | i cant find the begginers guide :S | 20:05 |
| Macer | lbt: i see.. interesting. i'm sure a standard mboard would be a lot better off submerged too :) | 20:06 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, so you are a contractor, hihihi | 20:06 |
| liri | is there a known issue with the n810 where the power suply/battery are concerened? | 20:06 |
| Macer | that thing is frigging awesome tho | 20:06 |
| Macer | i still would like to know why my computer is dying on me though | 20:06 |
| metRo_ | it's just beacause i cant find an exe | 20:06 |
| javispedro | "Over the next few days we managed to identify around 144 Nokia employees including those who worked on Maemo and had personal accounts on Twitter." | 20:06 |
| Macer | i think it is because i started pushing it by running 4 vboxes on it at once | 20:06 |
| javispedro | pft. | 20:06 |
| Macer | and it's starting to produce more heat from the cpus | 20:07 |
| javispedro | poor wazd. | 20:07 |
| Macer | maybe a swap of cpu fans and thermal compound will help | 20:07 |
| javispedro | I wonder if he though his name "sounded finnish". | 20:07 |
| woglinde | metro -> http://colinux.wikia.com/wiki/Getting_Started_with_coLinux | 20:07 |
| liri | my battery has drained out. I connected the power supply to the power socket and then to the n810 though nothing happens (it isn't charging) | 20:07 |
| Macer | i'll get some retarded super oversized cpu fans and see if that helps | 20:07 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, url please | 20:07 |
| Macer | maybe a new case too | 20:07 |
| metRo_ | colinux is better than Virtual Box? | 20:07 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: http://eldarmurtazin.livejournal.com/501202.html | 20:07 |
| woglinde | javis *5* | 20:07 |
| Macer | something retardedly oversized | 20:07 |
| Macer | to fit some 30cm fans on the cpus or something | 20:07 |
| Macer | bbl | 20:07 |
| woglinde | its time for dinner | 20:08 |
| woglinde | I think | 20:08 |
| woglinde | till later | 20:08 |
| javispedro | cy | 20:08 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, bahh, no names, no fun :( | 20:09 |
| javispedro | I wonder if he realizes there's also a public Maemo bugzilla. To get "what will happen in the world of Maemo in the next 1.5 years". | 20:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | I think the implication is that everyone with a nokia IP that's interested must be a part of the team | 20:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is kinda silly | 20:13 |
| glass | "In some cases I simply spent several hours in a friendly company drinking tea" he should've been drinking late night with them to get info | 20:13 |
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| VDVsx | hey wazd <- one of the 144 Nokia employees that Elder identified, hhiihih | 20:15 |
| VDVsx | *Eldar | 20:16 |
| javispedro | wazd: yes, I hope you're enjoying your job at Nokia :) | 20:16 |
| wazd | VDVsx: orly? :D | 20:16 |
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| wazd | javispedro: wish I had a real chance... | 20:16 |
| VDVsx | wazd, http://eldarmurtazin.livejournal.com/501202.html | 20:16 |
| glass | and besides, i really doubt anyone inside even nokia has a full idea what maemo is going to be in 1.5 years since the work to get maemo there hasn't been done yet. they might know where they personally hope it will be at | 20:17 |
| VDVsx | wazd, btw, I need some of your wisdom later :) | 20:17 |
| javispedro | glass: even then, 1.5 years is a short timeframe | 20:18 |
| javispedro | that's why I was suggesting bugzilla. | 20:18 |
| wazd | VDVsx: oh, I read that one in russian | 20:18 |
| glass | javispedro: yeah, but say, with getting n900 to market, i'd wager that a lot was to do with getting fabbing right(plenty of omap3 products seemed to be 'late') | 20:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | OS X on the Mini 9 is disturbingly better. | 20:19 |
| wazd | VDVsx: oh my god, he traced Quim Gil! We have been working on his fake identity for 20 years! | 20:19 |
| javispedro | oh my god!! | 20:19 |
| javispedro | now samsung will hire him. | 20:19 |
| glass | hehe | 20:19 |
| javispedro | ;) | 20:19 |
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| glass | the essay is pretty much "look i got some information!"... i could've pointed him to a bar or two that he'd have gotten more info by just sitting there every night | 20:21 |
| RST38h | wazd: eldar getting lyrical ? | 20:22 |
| javispedro | glass: or certain plance in Amsterdam. | 20:22 |
| javispedro | s/plance/place | 20:22 |
| glass | but that info could've been of grade a balony | 20:22 |
| glass | because thats how things roll | 20:22 |
| wazd | RST38h: he always was in fact) | 20:22 |
| glass | maemo isn't a mainstream nokia os despite some people telling me (that it would be at this point in time) couple of years ago | 20:23 |
| javispedro | are there still Sega headsharks at the main entrace of Nintendo HQ? | 20:23 |
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| javispedro | this seems so 90ish | 20:24 |
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| glass | nokias big secret is just selling phones with a markup | 20:24 |
| glass | moto and sony-e kinda missed that thing | 20:24 |
| wazd | moto aura worth whole moto line | 20:25 |
| RST38h | moto was long racing to the bottom | 20:25 |
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| wazd | it's just beautiful, so beautiful | 20:25 |
| glass | RST38h: it was going to bottom while the economy was in upturn | 20:25 |
| javispedro | hey samsung! I work for Nokia! please offer me "salaries 4-5 times bigger than that of the president"!! | 20:25 |
| luke-jr | wtf? | 20:26 |
| RST38h | glass: their non-consumer equipment is cool though | 20:26 |
| javispedro | luke-jr: scrollback ;) | 20:26 |
| wazd | Looks like this channel contains of nokia employees, intel employees and me :D | 20:26 |
| glass | RST38h: yeah the enterprise/industry stuff isn't so bad | 20:27 |
| metRo_ | i have colinux works | 20:27 |
| glass | RST38h: they're making money there though | 20:27 |
| SpeedEvil | wazd: you work for both? | 20:27 |
| javispedro | (and joking of course) | 20:27 |
| metRo_ | where i put the Ubuntu-9.04.ext3.1gb.fs? | 20:27 |
| wazd | SpeedEvil: I work for food :D | 20:27 |
| javispedro | metRo_: wogline is gone and I don't know the first thing about colinux | 20:28 |
| RST38h | Does food pay well? =) | 20:28 |
| glass | i wonder if that essays writer thought of that companies get nokia roadmaps by just asking | 20:28 |
| * SpeedEvil throws wazd a bannanna. | 20:28 | |
| javispedro | BANANA BANANA BANANA | 20:28 |
| * Myrtti votes for cheesecake | 20:29 | |
| glass | whitechocolatecheesecake ftw | 20:29 |
| javispedro | whitechocolatecheesecakebananaflavour | 20:29 |
| wazd | Myrtti: I heard you want hello kitty theme?) | 20:29 |
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| glass | so anyways, could someone point me to a photo essay of n900, preferably with a ruler next to it? | 20:30 |
| Myrtti | wazd: anything subtle and with a hint of pink is appreciated, not necessarily all pink or all hellokitty | 20:30 |
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| metRo_ | i'll try virtual box | 20:31 |
| Myrtti | my xubuntu is quite pink, but it's not too tacky to my eyes, and I prefer to keep stuff nice without being too obtrusive | 20:31 |
| SpeedEvil | glass: would the president of brazil do? | 20:31 |
| Myrtti | slopping pink everywhere is just tacky | 20:31 |
| glass | SpeedEvil: hmm. no. | 20:32 |
| glass | brazil is kinda sketchy country | 20:32 |
| glass | "i've seen videos" | 20:32 |
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| RST38h | wazd: So, he deviously gets Maemo's organizational chart. And what use is it to him? | 20:37 |
| RST38h | =) | 20:37 |
| javispedro | RST38h: his master plan is to send that to samsung so that samsung may hire "key maemo" people. | 20:38 |
| javispedro | 2. ??? | 20:38 |
| javispedro | 3. profit. | 20:38 |
| wazd | today my neighbour from London leaves Moscow after 6months of work :( sad :( | 20:38 |
| RST38h | Hmmm...But according to his logic Samsung will not hire him =) | 20:38 |
| RST38h | wazd: Lemme guess, business visa? =) | 20:38 |
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| RST38h | javis: Besides, he does not look Korean! | 20:38 |
| wazd | RST38h: maybe, haven't got much details :) | 20:39 |
| javispedro | RST38h: well, who knows. | 20:42 |
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| lcuk2 | glass, mmm why do you need ruler | 20:44 |
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| * lcuk2 plays portal | 20:46 | |
| SpeedEvil | glass: simply scale off the published dimesions | 20:48 |
| SpeedEvil | And shop in a ruler if you need one. | 20:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Or for more comedic purposes, an elephant. | 20:48 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd, so how well are nokia employees like yourself paid? ;) | 20:57 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: some potatoes, bread, butter :D | 20:58 |
| woglinde | bacon | 20:58 |
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| RST38h | rather, his bacon is safe as long as he complies! =) | 20:59 |
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| asj_wrk- | maybe it's butter wrapped in bacon in a potatoe? | 21:07 |
| X-Fade | Nah, he gets paid in salmiakki of course ;) | 21:08 |
| Myrtti | salmiakkikossu | 21:09 |
| Myrtti | friday bottle | 21:09 |
| X-Fade | Myrtti: Is that the salmiakki liquor? | 21:09 |
| Myrtti | yup | 21:09 |
| Myrtti | or salmiakki diluted in vodka | 21:10 |
| Proteous | single malt plz | 21:10 |
| Proteous | with some water | 21:10 |
| * lcuk2 still has box of finnish cigars - 1. lets hope hes not paid in them lol | 21:10 | |
| X-Fade | Ah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmiakki_Koskenkorva | 21:11 |
| asj_wrk- | http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/sydney-dust-storm-from-space/ -- Why am I moving to Australia? this suddenly seems like a bad idea | 21:11 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/reader-photo-gallery-crazy-dust-storm-turns-sydney-red/ | 21:12 |
| Myrtti | asj_wrk-: WELCOME TO FINLAND | 21:12 |
| Myrtti | *snerk* | 21:12 |
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| asj_wrk- | Myrtti: hmm? | 21:12 |
| Myrtti | we love you long tiem | 21:12 |
| Myrtti | ;-) | 21:12 |
| Myrtti | don't need to be afraid of dust storms here :-P | 21:13 |
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| asj_wrk- | Myrtti: I used to live in Canada, no dust storms there either, but -40 gets tirring | 21:14 |
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| toggles_w | asj_wrk-: when you get down there can you please clean my apartment? | 21:15 |
| asj_wrk- | toggles_w: only if I get to move in...I don't have a place to stay you see ;) | 21:16 |
| RST38h | licorice is ammonium chloride? | 21:17 |
| Myrtti | yup | 21:17 |
| * RST38h now understands why he didn't like it so much | 21:17 | |
| RST38h | It is freaking DRIED PISS! | 21:17 |
| Myrtti | one of the five members of the candy family in Finland | 21:18 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: I liked your gel candy much better =) | 21:18 |
| Myrtti | salmiakki, chocolate, fruit candy, (xylitol) cough drops and (xylitol) chewing gum | 21:18 |
| Myrtti | gel candy? hmmmm | 21:19 |
| toggles_w | asj_wrk-: hmm.. will be a problem, i'll ask my tenant if he minds.. | 21:19 |
| RST38h | the fruit gels were delicious | 21:19 |
| Myrtti | heh, yeah | 21:19 |
| asj_wrk- | toggles_w: ah well, probably in the wrong city anyways | 21:19 |
| asj_wrk- | toggles_w: commute from perth to brisbane would umm not be so great eh? | 21:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Depends if you've got a flying car. | 21:21 |
| toggles_w | or like fflyer miles.. | 21:21 |
| asj_wrk- | SpeedEvil: it's still 5000km... | 21:21 |
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| asj_wrk- | (and I do own a plane...even at 300km/hr it's still 5000km) | 21:21 |
| SpeedEvil | You clearly need a hypersonic flying car. :) | 21:22 |
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| asj_wrk- | clearly | 21:22 |
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| RST38h | Apple is developing iTablet since 1987: http://gizmodo.com/5367880/apples-1987-knowledge-navigator-makes-new-tablets-look-bad | 21:38 |
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| asj_wrk- | gizmodo are such apple fan boys ;) | 21:41 |
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| RST38h | they like shiney! | 21:42 |
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| wirelessdreamer | wikipedia mentioned usa release date may be the 27th of september, anyone here able to confirm that? | 21:53 |
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| mau | hi there, some one know a maemo SDK installation manual for openSUSE? | 21:55 |
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| lbt | mau: not afaik | 21:56 |
| lbt | setting up a debian/ubuntu VM is probably easiest | 21:57 |
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| mau | Ho! ok , Tanks | 21:59 |
| jaem_N810 | good morning | 21:59 |
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| lcuk2 | lbt, | 22:03 |
| lcuk2 | servo control | 22:03 |
| pupnik_ | lol @ leocad - ni ce | 22:03 |
| Myrtti | mmm chicken. | 22:03 |
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| lbt | servos... yes | 22:03 |
| lcuk2 | i can wire up the remote control car i gather with one of those boards - or equally arduino | 22:04 |
| * lcuk2 ponders location sensing | 22:04 | |
| lbt | they have 2 DACS and I use one to control the throttle | 22:04 |
| lbt | it's 3-channel though | 22:05 |
| lcuk2 | nice | 22:05 |
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| lbt | I haven't played much more with it since the other day | 22:05 |
| lcuk2 | its then just about control and feedback | 22:05 |
| lcuk2 | yeah i know | 22:05 |
| lcuk2 | or rather you shut up about it lol | 22:05 |
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| lcuk2 | you put a fan on, was that just a proto for the other kind of fan you would use | 22:06 |
| lbt | heh, just playing with varying 'voltage' using PWM | 22:06 |
| lcuk2 | yeah | 22:06 |
| lcuk2 | i might have a browse over maplin this weekend | 22:07 |
| lbt | if the N900 had usb I'd do more | 22:07 |
| lbt | <grin> | 22:07 |
| lcuk2 | see what i could gather for sensing | 22:07 |
| lcuk2 | yeah understood, but theres more than one way to deal with that | 22:07 |
| lbt | the board is great for that kind of thing | 22:07 |
| lcuk2 | doesnt even need usb technically | 22:07 |
| lcuk2 | can be done from the audio out if reqd | 22:07 |
| lbt | imagination required | 22:07 |
| * lcuk2 really wants to look into echo lcoation | 22:08 | |
| lcuk2 | location | 22:08 |
| lcuk2 | laser rangefinding is impractical at the scale required | 22:08 |
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| lcuk2 | and i only want to find out if theres stuff infront | 22:09 |
| * lcuk2 might rip apart one of those 80s robots | 22:09 | |
| * lbt has a mate who uses R/C planes with twin cameras on gimbals | 22:09 | |
| lcuk2 | the controllable trax things | 22:09 |
| lcuk2 | neat | 22:09 |
| lbt | he uses a headmounted HUD with head position sensors | 22:09 |
| lbt | to direct the cameras | 22:09 |
| lbt | he gets a 3D view from the plane | 22:10 |
| lbt | and can 'look around' | 22:10 |
| lbt | just by looking around | 22:10 |
| lbt | the coolest bit is the transmitterr | 22:10 |
| frals | speaking of robots... you lot seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrJeYFxpUyQ | 22:10 |
| lbt | which also tracks the plane | 22:10 |
| lbt | to maintain the wifi connection | 22:11 |
| lbt | uber-electronics-geek | 22:11 |
| lcuk2 | no fkin wonder you put a tv in your bathroom lol | 22:11 |
| lcuk2 | with friends like that, i'd do crazy stuff :D | 22:11 |
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| lbt | heh | 22:11 |
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| lcuk2 | that actually sounds really impressive | 22:12 |
| lcuk2 | animatronics puppeteer baseline control system | 22:12 |
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| lcuk2 | biggest problem with these setups and advancing further into robotics is supllying enough power | 22:13 |
| lbt | nah, it's that "make clean" doesn't work on soldering | 22:14 |
| lcuk2 | heh | 22:14 |
| jaem_N810 | :D | 22:15 |
| jaem_N810 | I wish | 22:15 |
| jaem_N810 | sigh... my soldering iron is more of a handicap than anything else | 22:15 |
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| jaem_N810 | my uni didn't replace their tips last year, and even the broken/bent irons in the lab worked better than mine :( | 22:16 |
| jaem_N810 | lbt: what's this for? | 22:16 |
| lbt | fun | 22:16 |
| lbt | maybe PUSH | 22:16 |
| jaem_N810 | nice | 22:16 |
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| jaem_N810 | I have an idea for that, but I'm waiting for legal clarification about something from Nokia, as it was originally proposed by one of my profs | 22:17 |
| jaem_N810 | btw, http://ffejery.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/various-types-of-free/ :) | 22:19 |
| jaem_N810 | lbt: what type of car is it? | 22:19 |
| lbt | :) | 22:19 |
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| lbt | more details later... | 22:19 |
| jaem_N810 | heh, okay | 22:19 |
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| pupnik_ | nice n810s going for 199-225 euro | 22:23 |
| asj_wrk- | woot had one I thought for under $200 US a month or two back | 22:24 |
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| pupnik_ | Yeah you can see how much european govt adds to prices. | 22:25 |
| asj_wrk- | well woot is a deal a day/emptying inventory site | 22:25 |
| pupnik_ | it's about 30% on average | 22:26 |
| pupnik_ | down to 10% in some areas | 22:27 |
| pupnik_ | a good comparison is amazon.de to amazon.com | 22:27 |
| asj_wrk- | US seems to have unusually low consumer electronics prices, when I was in AU it's almost always cheaper to buy it in the US and ship it over, it seems | 22:28 |
| Proteous | I got my 770 from woot. the rest is history | 22:28 |
| toggles_w | Proteous: lol, me too | 22:29 |
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| pupnik_ | asj_wrk-: all those differences are due to government intervention into the marketplace. in a free-trade situation, prices would equilibrate. | 22:30 |
| * asj_wrk- scratches his head. I put 2 of my pci cards in a system everything is ok. I put 3 of them in there and all hell breaks lose. sigh, 1 maybe 2 weeks left | 22:31 | |
| pupnik_ | perhaps an issue with irq sharing? | 22:31 |
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| asj_wrk- | they're all sharring irqs with everything, hmmm, maybe though. I think it's a memory leak/disaster. The driver is nasty | 22:32 |
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| * ShadowJK wonders what the import tariff for consumer electronics from the US is like | 22:32 | |
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| RST38h | Shadow: ask someone to bring the device | 22:34 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: where ar eyou? | 22:35 |
| ShadowJK | .fi | 22:35 |
| unixSnob | gimme some ideas... what's the best way to have an n800 detect when you are at your office? I'm thinking a bluetooth signal that connects to a bluetooth dongle | 22:35 |
| ShadowJK | But I meant in general | 22:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: 6% to the UK - + 15% vat | 22:35 |
| RST38h | unixSnob: Whistling! | 22:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: i imagine it'd be similar in .fi | 22:35 |
| unixSnob | RST38h: is that an app? | 22:35 |
| RST38h | No, it is a sound! | 22:36 |
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| lbt | VDVsx: pingy pingy ping | 22:37 |
| * RST38h rejoices | 22:38 | |
| VDVsx | lbt, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Schedule/Day_2#Git_hands-on_workshop | 22:38 |
| VDVsx | need some love ^ ;) | 22:38 |
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| lardman | evening all | 22:38 |
| asj_wrk- | unixSnob: kde used to be able to lock/unlock the screen per a bluetooth device...that feature seems to have vanished now that I want it | 22:38 |
| lbt | VDVsx: I just noticed ;) | 22:39 |
| lardman | asj_wrk-: I saw that on Windows a little while back | 22:39 |
| asj_wrk- | seemed kinda handy for my work/home machines... | 22:39 |
| lardman | yeah, was just thinking about it a couple of days ago - not for home, but for work (where I have to use the dreaded Windows) | 22:40 |
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| unixSnob | asj_wrk-: yeah, it's a good feature.. there's no good reason to remove it | 22:40 |
| lardman | is it not available as an add-on still? | 22:40 |
| asj_wrk- | I was thinking perhaps it was easy to spoof, but really who would care? | 22:40 |
| asj_wrk- | you have access to the machine, init=/bin/sh isn't that hard | 22:41 |
| unixSnob | asj_wrk-: perhaps, but that doesn't mean the feature is insecure | 22:41 |
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| unixSnob | it could be used /in addition/ to your password, so you must know something, and also have something | 22:42 |
| lardman | lol, sourceforge project for Windows anyway: http://btprox.sourceforge.net/ | 22:43 |
| unixSnob | it could also setup an encrypted link using diffie-helman, and send a password | 22:43 |
| lardman | http://lifehacker.com/359060/use-a-bluetooth-phone-to-lockunlock-ubuntu | 22:43 |
| asj_wrk- | <shrug> I would just like to see it work by turning aff the screen saver, waking up the monitor, etc when you come in range. Would be awesome, you walk in the office and sit down at your computer and tada :) | 22:43 |
| unixSnob | But the reason I bring it up is not to login -- it's because I would like a timecard app that I don't have to clock in and out of | 22:44 |
| lardman | asj_wrk-: except when you have a class 3 (or whatever it is) device and it unlocks when you come within 100m ;) | 22:44 |
| lardman | anyway, looks like a program called BlueProximity still exists | 22:44 |
| asj_wrk- | installing :) | 22:45 |
| * lardman is glad he's achieved something useful this evening ;) | 22:45 | |
| unixSnob | all timecard apps i've found so far expect you to tap on a stopwatch | 22:46 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: first time for everything | 22:46 |
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| lardman | qwerty12_N810: oi! | 22:47 |
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| lardman | cor, the cheek of the youth of today | 22:47 |
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| asj_wrk- | sweet this is a cool app | 22:49 |
| lardman | works does it? Good good | 22:49 |
| asj_wrk- | well let me take my phone away from my desk :) | 22:50 |
| Myrtti | oolalala | 22:50 |
| Myrtti | http://saunalahti.fi/puhelimet/puhelin.php?id=342&type=handsetmodel | 22:50 |
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| ShadowJK | I wish I already didn't have such a good deal with saunalahti | 22:51 |
| asj_wrk- | well it lost contact to the phone... | 22:51 |
| ShadowJK | they'll undoubtedly fuck it up if I try upgrade :) | 22:51 |
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| pupnik | Can N900 open > 800x480 windows? | 22:51 |
| pupnik | For apps that need 800x600 or more? | 22:52 |
| ShadowJK | Nokia would tell you to fix your app | 22:52 |
| RST38h | pupnik: not right now afaik, although there are some suggestions to implement scrollable windows | 22:54 |
| pupnik | Some people will want to run pc-linux apps, not just finger-friendly maemo5 apps | 22:54 |
| pupnik | k ty RST38h | 22:54 |
| RST38h | pupnik: as far as I understand the hardware, this should not be a problem technically | 22:55 |
| pupnik | it would be cute to pan over virtual desktop with device tilt | 22:55 |
| pupnik | cool beans | 22:55 |
| asj_wrk- | ok blueproximity works great, but if you leave the settings dialog open it doesn't work. Dialog has to be closed | 22:57 |
| lardman | are there any decent dbus docs/example codes out there? | 22:57 |
| lardman | or even better, something in C showing how to open a url? | 22:57 |
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| pupnik | keesj: model your controller with this: http://www.leocad.org/ | 22:57 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020783.html | 22:59 |
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| asj_wrk- | lardman: <hug> works great, uses signal strength for a "distance" so even would work with class 3 :) | 23:01 |
| lardman | thanks, what about in Diablo, etc? | 23:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: Same thing for Diablo | 23:01 |
| lardman | asj_wrk-: ah, I always wondered how that would work | 23:01 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: good stuff, thanks | 23:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | "open_new_window" is nicer than "load_url" IMO | 23:02 |
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| unixSnob | asj_wrk-: did you notice different distances can be configured? | 23:03 |
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| lardman | is that also in hildon-mime? | 23:03 |
| * unixSnob wonders if blueproximity can be configured to take different actions at different distances | 23:03 | |
| lardman | hildon_mime_open_file() | 23:03 |
| lardman | unixSnob: seemed to be written in Python, so easily hackable | 23:04 |
| lardman | iirc | 23:04 |
| asj_wrk- | unixSnob: not without changing it. Now a greating would rock, as you enter the room the computer could say "good morning" and as you sit down wake up :) | 23:04 |
| lardman | "Hello master" or the like? | 23:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: hildon_mime_open_file will look up the correct app that handles whatever file you gave it; don't think it does URLs | 23:05 |
| asj_wrk- | imagin how that could annoy your coworkers.... | 23:05 |
| unixSnob | i want to have the Beetlejuice voice saying "hey, wait, come back.. don't leave me here!!" as I walk away | 23:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: think opening a file from the file manager | 23:05 |
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| asj_wrk- | have it pair with one of their phones...when they get close you could say "Just what are you are doing Dave?" | 23:06 |
| unixSnob | yeah.. would be shits and giggles | 23:06 |
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| frals | oh, the russian posted in the eldarthred on t.m.o :p | 23:06 |
| RST38h | and? | 23:06 |
| frals | just saying | 23:07 |
| qwerty12_N810 | FIGHT | 23:07 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: yeah, the naming indicates that, but the question also specified opening an arbitrary url, so no idea | 23:07 |
| unixSnob | screen saver could switch to a gun facing the colleague | 23:07 |
| unixSnob | or a middle finger | 23:07 |
| RST38h | Ah, let us see if the guy is real | 23:07 |
| lardman | ah so libosso, open_new_window() you were talking about? | 23:07 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: either way, calling the browser using the osso functions works; there's even a header file that defines this stuff | 23:08 |
| RST38h | ah, now he is really pissed off! | 23:08 |
| lardman | cool thanks, didn't get that far in the email thread :p | 23:08 |
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| lardman | :) | 23:08 |
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| * RST38h considers buying industrial quantities of popcorn tomorrow | 23:13 | |
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| pupnik | http://blog.audiojungle.net/resources/29-music-making-apps-for-linux/ | 23:18 |
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| r2d2rogers | rsalveti: can set you up with Cub Scout popcorn ;) | 23:18 |
| r2d2rogers | rsalveti: sorry, bad tab completion... | 23:19 |
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| pupnik | cool, Stefan Kost has ported jokosher "A guitarist's multi-track recording tool" http://www.grancanariadesktopsummit.org/node/215 | 23:25 |
| pupnik | anybody see his talk at gran canaria? | 23:27 |
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| pupnik | A very cool dude... http://www.buzztard.org/index.php/Main_Page | 23:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol | 23:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eldar's on Talk. | 23:39 |
| pupnik | :D | 23:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Poor baby | 23:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=333754&postcount=247 | 23:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Unfortunately for someone, my connection in this industry much higher than anyone here could have and I working with all companies (vendors/operators) on the market (except a few, frankly speaking)." | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Look at all of my important friends!" | 23:40 |
| pupnik | n900 could easily handle such an app given a large virtual desktop you could 'slide' around http://linux-sound.org/images/blog/full-size/1-bt-buzztard.png | 23:41 |
| pupnik | i am starting to lock-on to this large desktop idea | 23:42 |
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| pupnik | omg, another awesome idea | 23:43 |
| * pupnik asplodes | 23:43 | |
| paroneayea | interesting to see that the freesmartphone.org people are banking on porting to the palm pre rather than the n900... http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2009/09/25/gsm-palm-pre-on-the-horizon/#comment-121636 | 23:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Weird | 23:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're probably pissed about oFono. | 23:46 |
| pupnik | how is palm countering chicken-egg problems for the pre? | 23:46 |
| pupnik | pre software | 23:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | "The Palm Pre is currently our major hope — all other hardware being either too closed (yes, this includes the Nokia N900) or already outdated." | 23:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Be nice to see that justified. | 23:46 |
| Robot101 | GeneralAntilles: the n900 doesn't use OFono either | 23:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Since, at its core, it's basically the same damn hardware. | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Robot101, right, but Palm isn't involved in oFono. | 23:47 |
| kirma | what palm pre has that's so much more open? | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Robot101, so it feels like a spite issue to me. | 23:47 |
| kirma | somehow I assume it has pretty much all the same stuff | 23:47 |
| Robot101 | there are Nokia folks hacking on OFono, and putting ISI stuff into it already, so its getting a lot less closed tbh | 23:47 |
| paroneayea | GeneralAntilles: yeah, I asked for that justification in the blogpost | 23:47 |
| Robot101 | we ported OFono to the G1's modem too | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe he's thinking released is more open than unreleased. :P | 23:48 |
| chx | i thought ofono was gpl | 23:48 |
| chx | i might be wrong. | 23:48 |
| paroneayea | kind of interesting since it looks like the n900's stack also used d-bus, right? | 23:48 |
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| kirma | I know couple openmoko users, but somehow I do rate them, and even independent of the actual hardware they would be using, quite a fringe community in contrast to maemo | 23:49 |
| pupnik | i wonder what kind of surgery you need on thumb to type on palm pre | 23:50 |
| paroneayea | kirma: I had an openmoko 1973 | 23:50 |
| wirelessdreamer | openmoko was doomed to failure from the start, they targeted devs with a touch screen only phone | 23:50 |
| paroneayea | wirelessdreamer: yes, I would agree with you there | 23:50 |
| pupnik | why not bluetooth keyboard | 23:50 |
| paroneayea | that's one of the biggest faults of the project | 23:50 |
| wirelessdreamer | who wants to carry one | 23:50 |
| paroneayea | pupnik: point of an on-phone keyboard is to make interfacing with it easy on the go | 23:51 |
| wirelessdreamer | i want my device in 1 pocket, even if its big, not a phone in one, keyborad in the other | 23:51 |
| paroneayea | yeah | 23:51 |
| paroneayea | I tried really hard to stick with my 1973 | 23:51 |
| paroneayea | but only recently did it become usable as a phone | 23:51 |
| pupnik | i appreciate the keyboard on n810 for e.g. but i was a happy camper with bluetooth keyboard on 770 | 23:51 |
| paroneayea | that, and most of the community was using the freerunnr | 23:51 |
| paroneayea | er | 23:51 |
| pupnik | real typing, real speed | 23:51 |
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| kirma | I must say I found finger interface of N900 a bit tedious with my (not gigantic) finger size... it would be totally unbearable if I would need to use virtual keyboard in addition to that :I | 23:52 |
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| pupnik | heh | 23:52 |
| paroneayea | it also comes with a builtin stylus, right? | 23:53 |
| wirelessdreamer | anyone know whats required to unbind the edge buttons on the n900 so a seperate user space program can control them? | 23:53 |
| frals | ya paroneayea, comes with a stylus | 23:54 |
| RST38h | wireless: Have your tried simply reading them as GTK events? | 23:54 |
| wirelessdreamer | RST38h: I don't have an n900 yet =P | 23:55 |
| wirelessdreamer | and I want to disable the builtin functions | 23:55 |
| kirma | paroneayea: it also comes with a keyboard :) | 23:56 |
| kirma | (and stylus) | 23:56 |
| wirelessdreamer | I want to port my user space chorded keyboard over once I get mine http://joy2chord.sourceforge.net/ | 23:56 |
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| lardman | night all | 23:57 |
| frals | nn | 23:57 |
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| woglinde | nite lardman | 23:57 |
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| frals | hmm, should probably get some popcorn for the eldar-thread | 23:58 |
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