IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-09-24

wazdRST38h: got it, thanks a lot00:00
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GeneralAntillesMyrtti, if only tasers worked over the internet.00:01
RST38hMeanwhile, how do I fix the memory bus conflict problem in software?00:01
Myrttiand to think this is about the only dedicated audiobook player with a gui for linux00:01
Myrttiseriously, this is sad.00:01
AStormGeneralAntilles: no, really, everyone would be dead no00:01
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GeneralAntillesAStorm, and? :D00:02
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AStormbeing alone on the internet is not fun00:02
GeneralAntillesMyrtti, honestly, the best audiobook interface I've ever used is still a tape deck. :\00:02
AStormGeneralAntilles: I prefer random-access devices00:03
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GeneralAntillesAStorm, so do I, but cassette tapes are disturbingly effective for audiobooks.00:03
GeneralAntillesEvery digital player I've ever tried has sucked.00:03
hooeyWhere are the maemo icons on the device?00:03
MyrttiGeneralAntilles: mrh. About the best I've used is the Nokia Audiobook player for s60, and it uses awb-wb :-(00:03
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GeneralAntilleshooey, /usr/share/icons00:04
Myrtti(apart from cassettes, which do rock, really)00:04
keesjpupnik: ping00:04
AStormMyrtti: amr-wb you mean00:04
Myrttiah, yes00:04
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Myrttiand encoding to that format is, let me tell you, SHIT00:04
coldbootI fucking hate busybox find...00:04
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Myrttioh, yes, it also requires an index file00:05
Myrttiin utf-16 format or something00:05
AStormthey could do better by adopting speex00:06
MyrttiI have a bash script that does the job, but I needed to make it poll for processor temp and make it sleep so I wouldn't fry my computer :-D00:06
AStormand supporting mp3 at least00:06
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MyrttiAStorm: the point of the amr-wb is that it takes less space, which I can kinda appreciate00:06
AStormand using an available playlist format, like pls or m3u... maybe cue00:06
AStormtrue, but it shouldn't be required00:07
Myrttibut - the s60 app has a) bookmarks b) resume on play c) sleep timer d) keyboard shortcuts e) bookmarks00:08
Myrttiand did I mention00:08
Myrttif) bookmarks00:08
Myrttialso, sleep timer00:08
Myrtti# index must be in little endian UTF-16 unicode format00:10
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pupnik keesj pong00:14
RST38hOk, adding NOPs fixes the memory bus conflict00:14
RST38hHow sweet...00:14
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pupnikwhat u doing rst38h?00:16
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RST38hpupnik: copying pixels to a buffer in sdram, not the fb000:18
RST38hon a Sigmatel chip00:18
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pupnikgfx uses shared memory?00:18
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Jaffapvanhoof: ping00:21
javispedrooh, pixel doubled openttd is actually semiplayable :S00:28
RST38hpupnik: Well it DMAs from the same SDRAM chip00:28
RST38hjavis: cooooooooool00:28
RST38hpupnik: But the memory controller should take care of that, and it does not00:28
javispedro(currently using Xsp though, still have to look at your scaler ;) )00:28
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orangeyhello all!00:29
orangeyis the release date for the n900 still 1 oct?00:30
orangeyI heard it was pushed back to 10 oct00:30
GeneralAntillesorangey, there is no release date.00:30
orangeyGeneralAntilles: what does that mean?00:30
GeneralAntillesorangey, no date has been announced.00:30
GeneralAntillesIt'll ship when it ships.00:30
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orangeyhow dependable : )00:31
GeneralAntillesTypical, mostly.00:31
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* Jaffa gives up on google-album-art-downloader for the evening. It *should* work better, if only I could get it talking to the interwebs.00:49
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wazdlooks like devastating maemo5 review from Eldar is not going to be released :)01:03
javispedrolarge amounts of money and blood involved no doubt01:04
wazdnot sure bout money :)01:05
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ccookewazd: not? What a shame. I was so looking forward to more of his 'journalism'.01:12
pupnikis that his real name or is he a rolÃe-playing nerd?01:12
ccookepupnik: indeterminate. He appears to be Russian and I *have* heard that as a Russian name. That does not mean it's a real name...01:14
ccookes/a real name/his real name/01:14
infobotccooke meant: pupnik: indeterminate. He appears to be Russian and I *have* heard that as a Russian name. That does not mean it's his real name...01:14
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* ccooke is not used to bots helping out with substitutions :-)01:14
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wazdccooke: well, not today apparently :)01:15
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ccookewazd: ah, well01:20
* ccooke wonders how compliant the infobot's regex substitution is01:21
ccookes/wonders.*/tests &/01:22
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zerojayJaffa: Worked fine for me.01:22
ccookeAnswer: Not very :-)01:22
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GeneralAntillesccooke, it doesn't work with actions.01:23
ccookeHmm. That would take actual coding to special case. How interesting.01:23
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ccookeAltgh you'd have to special-case it anyway to make it look decent.01:24
ccookeIRC is such a cobbled-together system :-)01:25
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ShadowJKA lot nicer than many other 1989 era protocols :)01:26
lardmanwhy am I getting an undefined reference to a function that is in the module in question?01:28
lardmancamera.o: In function `analyse_image.0':camera.c:(.text+0xa60): undefined reference to `batoo_analyse_image'01:28
ccookelardman: your code or someone else's?01:29
lardmanthe function is declared just down from where it's called, is prototyped in the header01:30
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ccookeShadowJK: the only real problem is the IRC protocol itself defines only a text conduit, nothing more.01:30
ccookeShadowJK: and people pretty much automatically use more than that if they can. Hence CTCP.01:31
ShadowJKand other cuteness, like the maximum message length being equal to minimum MTU :)01:31
ccookeCTCP amuses me: It's a reasonably clean way to implement a very flexible and good system with a mildly nasty encoding.01:32
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lardmanhmm, missed a bracket in one place, had an extra elsewhere, lucky or not, that it compiled ok that way01:43
lardmanbed time, night all01:44
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wazddamn, Eldar is really stupid as I see01:45
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wazdI told him 5 times that I'm not working for Nokia or maemo Team01:45
zerojay"Yeah, yeah... I've got the latest version of the firmware... it's from a month and a half ago!"01:46
wazdand he keeps telling me that I am01:46
wazdHe misquoted me and mede it look like I'm talking from the Maemo Developement Team POV01:47
jaem_N810is this a new article?01:47
wazdI'm trying to tell him that I'm not but...01:47
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wazdwell, random thoughts, nothing serious01:47
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wazdno, lj01:48
zerojayGood ole lj.01:49
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zerojayI haven't used it in a while... think my account dates back to 2001.01:50
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zerojayKind of stopped using it when those Russians bought it (no offense).01:51
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zerojayAll the ads all over the place sicken me.01:51
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pupnikwhat is lj?01:52
GeneralAntillesLive Journal01:52
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zerojayI've been on that site for so long but never knew it had such a huge Russian population until it was bought this year.01:57
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wazdweird weird world: who knew that best and legit anti-spyware tool will be called "Super Anti Spyware"02:00
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lbtlcuk: takeoff happened02:03
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javispedroRST38h: ping02:08
javispedroerm. openttd is 8bpp.02:08
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javispedrogood question.02:10
VDVsx_wazd, looks like Eldar just released the maemo5 review ;)02:11
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VDVsx_javispedro, he have your SW installed ;)02:11
javispedroglad to know I contributed into his perceived unstability!02:11
VDVsx_javispedro, russian version only:
VDVsx_his calendar tasks are so funny, lol02:12
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zerojayjavispedro: lol02:13
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zerojayThere a pic of what firmware he's on? ;)02:14
VDVsx_zerojay, he covered that everywhere, why ? lolol02:16
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* javispedro lols at battery low warning in review02:17
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javispedroor worries. whatever.02:18
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VDVsxjavispedro, best one:
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javispedrolooks usable.02:20
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GeneralAntillesWhat a child.02:21
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* VDVsx notices that Elder don't has Quim's number :P02:24
GeneralAntillesGoddamn browser fullscreen button.02:24
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Macermediaportal has an "isdn caller id" plugin02:27
Maceri'm curious as to how many people are left with isdn02:27
Firebirdis the display brightness missing from the panel or am I blind...02:29
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Macerin maemo?02:31
Macershould be there. otherwise you can add it02:32
Maceror use advanced backlight02:32
FirebirdVDVsx, that looks like the one from the control panel02:33
SpeedEvilMacer: it's quite popular in some countries, with IDSN under ADSL available02:33
SpeedEvilMacer: it's got lots more features than your normal analogue phoneline02:33
FirebirdI'm talking about the one in the panel which you can change with.. two clicks?02:33
CutMeOwnThroatdoh... an N810 is $500 now on
CutMeOwnThroatthey're getting more expensive now?02:33
VDVsxFirebird, yes, I think isn't present the panel02:33
VDVsx*in the panel02:34
andre__ridiculous price02:34
Macerwimax edition?02:34
Maceri know the wimax editions were a little crazy for some reason on amazon02:34
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Maceri got my n810 on amazon for around 200 not too long ago02:34
CutMeOwnThroatused ones start at $210 there02:34
MacerCutMeOwnThroat: mine was new02:35
CutMeOwnThroatand I don't see anything about wimax02:35
Macerodd that they seem to be going up in price02:35
Macersupply and demand i suppose02:35
Firebirdwimax edition is $410 on amazon02:35
MacerFirebird: hm...02:35
CutMeOwnThroatI don't see that at all at amazon02:35
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Firebirdthough... all used :o02:35
CutMeOwnThroatoh, now I find it02:36
Macerthey sure are 50002:36
Macerwtf? :)02:36
Macerwhat the hell is going on? did someone figure out they can hack wifi signals with an n810 or something?02:37
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CutMeOwnThroatbut then... wow Nokia N810 Armor Case - The Metal Case (Metallic Silver)02:37
Maceri was going to get one but didn't02:37
Maceri'd rather get a skin if i can. i usually am very careful with my n81002:37
Macerthe thing is amazingly scratch resistant as far as teh screen goes02:38
CutMeOwnThroatwater and air-tight titanium-nanotube-diamond alloy02:38
Macern800 wasn't nearly as good of a screen02:38
CutMeOwnThroat(we wish)02:38
Macergravity repulsor that stops it in mid air from hitting the ground? :)02:38
Firebirdscratch resistant? My stylus scratched my screen >_>02:38
CutMeOwnThroatand draws energy from surrounding air to recharge it02:39
Macerthat's what you get for pecking in anger :)02:39
Firebirdthough, my new screen still has the packaging protector on it02:39
MacerCutMeOwnThroat: yeah. heard that was going to be an n900 feature02:39
Maceroh wait.. i mean openpandora02:39
Macermy bad02:39
MacerFirebird: usually i get the protector02:39
Macerfor some reason nokia sticks a sticker on the stock one02:40
FirebirdI haven't bothered getting it yet02:40
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FirebirdI've gotten the screen replaced three times already02:40
Macerwtf dude?02:40
Firebirdflex print broke 3 times02:40
Macerwhen watching the porn on the n810.. you can't literally shove your penis into it :)02:40
Macerholographic vagina producer is still undeveloped02:41
Firebirdmaybe I opened the slide too many times...02:41
Macermaybe with .0000013.2.1.3b02:41
CutMeOwnThroatwell... guess I'm looking forward to selling the N810 for twice the price I bought it if this trend continues02:41
CutMeOwnThroat"and you don't mind the screen is a little bit smashed in, do you?"02:41
Macerwonder if people are buying them02:42
Macerfor such a high price.. there has to be a catch02:42
Maceryou will wind up selling it and find out an astroid is about to hit the earth and only people with n810s are given space in the bunkers to save humanity02:43
CutMeOwnThroatguess I'm prepared to take THAT risk02:43
Macerbut don't say i didn't warn you02:44
CutMeOwnThroatI guess I won't have the opportunity...02:44
Macerthen again. a lot of people probably buy them as a car gadget02:44
CutMeOwnThroatbeing hit be the asteroid and all02:44
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Maceri originally bought mine for the car but got sucked into actually using it02:44
Firebirdand if the asteroid destroys the planet, will the n810s turn into space survival kits?02:44
MacerFirebird: no. the aliens teleport you away to paradise02:45
Macerbecause only the smart people have n810s02:45
Macerthe rest are worth letting die02:45
CutMeOwnThroatFirebird, think "undocumented features"02:45
MacerCutMeOwnThroat: you don't really think that "disabled 3D gpu" is really what they say it is do you?02:46
Macerit's the teleportation transceiver02:46
* javispedro reads disabled 3d gpu and cries, again02:46
Macerjust make sure your battery isn't dead when the end is near02:46
CutMeOwnThroatdid you install the extra-software that lets you have the N810 make you invisible?02:46
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MacerCutMeOwnThroat: no. ran out of space on the SD02:47
Macerinvisible 1.0e takes up too much space.. have to wait til i get a 1TB SD in it02:47
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Macerjavispedro: haha.. it's ok02:48
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Macerwhen you get the n900 you can use it ;)02:48
CutMeOwnThroatup to now it seems the n900 is persistently invisible itself...02:48
Maceryou can always preorder a touchbook02:48
Macerand wait until it is obsolete to get it02:48
Macerlike i am02:48
javispedroI could always just play with my computer's gpu02:48
Maceralthough i was going ot get an n900 also02:48
Macerjavispedro: yeah that too.. but you can't lug a computer around02:49
Macerwell.. i guess with a car battery and dc to ac converter anything is possible02:49
Macerever see serial experiment lain?02:49
CutMeOwnThroatwell, kindle would have been an alternative if I'd have figured soon enough it also runs linux02:49
Macerwith the dude who has all that crap strapped onto his back walking around online all the time02:49
MacerCutMeOwnThroat: haha02:49
Macerwhat type of hardware does a kindle use?02:50
Macermy mother has one02:50
Macerit doesn't look like it's much of a beast02:50
CutMeOwnThroatCPU: Freescale 532 MHz, ARM-1102:50
javispedroway too expensive02:50
javispedroer.. which one?02:51
CutMeOwnThroatdunno :)02:51
javispedrothe newest one costed nearlt $500 iirc02:51
CutMeOwnThroat1, 2\02:51
javispedroi don't know if previous models are 530Mhz02:51
CutMeOwnThroataccording to wikipedia article02:51
MacerFreescale 532 MHz, ARM-1102:51
Macerthat's faster than an n81002:52
javispedrothe 32 MiB of RAM may be quite a handicap02:52
Macertoo bad02:52
Macerbut then again it's just for reading books so ... :)02:52
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GeneralAntillesIt's really slow for being 532MHz.02:52
mavhcwhy so much cpu?02:54
javispedroprobably to decode pdf pages before the eink screen refreshes02:54
mavhcunless eink needs cpu to control it02:55
javispedroit does not, it has its own controller02:55
javispedrobut pdf decoding is slow02:55
javispedronow rescaling02:55
CutMeOwnThroatguess a device with emdebian would be nice... should give you kind of easy access to the full debian repository02:55
javispedrothat, or maybe running the java based mobipocket software02:55
CutMeOwnThroator maybe not... hard to tell yet02:57
CutMeOwnThroataw, well in a couple of years we'll just shove a 500 GB SD card in and not complain that there's not enough space on the device02:57
infobotCutMeOwnThroat meant: aw, well in a couple of years we'll just shove a 500 GB SD card in and  complain that there's not enough space on the device02:58
CutMeOwnThroatthanks, infobot02:58
CutMeOwnThroator possibly s/not/still/02:59
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Maceri'm more curious as to how they get the silver thing on the side03:01
* Macer wants metalic silver on his n810 screen03:02
Macerit doesn't really flip the pages all that fast either03:02
Macertakes like a couple seconds to fetch and redraw03:02
mavhcI'd rather buy books than license them03:03
Macerisn't it the same thing as buying them?03:03
CutMeOwnThroatI'd miss the IR diodes on the N810 to switch channels on TV... if I had a TV03:03
Maceri mean the first one has an sd03:03
mavhcno, I can sell my books03:03
Macerit acts as a remote?03:03
Maceri never did that with my n81003:04
GeneralAntillesCutMeOwnThroat, N810 has IR?03:04
CutMeOwnThroatand the laser-cutter for slicing bread03:04
CutMeOwnThroatbut the N900 will have all that and more03:04
Macerthe ir sounded plausable03:04
Macerslicing bread?03:04
GeneralAntillesAh, I see.03:04
Macerwho needs to do that nowadays? :)03:04
CutMeOwnThroatwell, slice people then03:05
Macerare we back in the 1940s?03:05
Macerok. that makes a little more sense. but then people would need firearms  cards for them03:05
CutMeOwnThroatyeah, thanks to the time-travel module03:05
Macermy son is awake and active.. bbl :)03:06
Macerlooks like nap time is over03:06
CutMeOwnThroatguess the lord you can reach via sip-phone03:06
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FireFox16~seen xnt1403:15
infobotxnt14 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22h 43m 14s ago, saying: 'well, im on my server right now, ill switch to my xps'.03:15
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javispedroEldar again mentions "N920 without hw keyboard"03:28
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oilinkigood morning03:31
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FireFox168:33 pm here >.> xDD03:33
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oilinkiwe are 11 hours ahead of you :)03:34
milos_did anyone read eldar's review?03:36
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AStormno, never, cellphone w/o a keyboard = pointless03:37
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JayBomb999I tried but my Russian is terrible.03:39
FireFox16oilinki: where are you located?03:40
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JayBomb999milos: I actually "read" the translation.  It's still a bit difficult to understand but overall, he seems to have lost pretty much all his enthusiasm regarding the N900.03:41
JayBomb999Do you agree?03:42
milos_JayBomb999: yup03:42
JayBomb999I typically respect his opinion so I can't lie... it does give me pause as I have the N900 of pre-order.03:42
JayBomb999There are legitimate questions about which firmware/hardware he has though...03:43
oilinkiFireFox16: Phuket, Thailand03:44
FireFox16ah :)03:44
GeneralAntillesJayBomb999, he's got a stolen prototype running very old firmware.03:45
GeneralAntillesJayBomb999, calling it a review is disingenuous at best.03:46
JayBomb999GeneralAntilles:  Yes I agree.03:46
milos_JayBomb999: not sure about browser speed. He said that Iphone's Safari is much faster than MicroB. I would like someone to test little more. To try to turn off flash on MicroB and than compare. Currently comparing these two on some heavy flash sites is not fair.03:46
GeneralAntillesJayBomb999, he's also been accusing anybody who asks anything specific of him of being either a Nokia employee or a shill.03:46
lcuki dont blame him03:47
lcukhow do i find out what software i have03:48
GeneralAntillesJayBomb999, wait for a real review with final software.03:48
JayBomb999I think he raised a few legitimate (and common) concerns about the device (portrait mode, limited media player, etc), but the slow browser stuff seemed to contradict the demos I saw...03:48
GeneralAntillesJayBomb999, he's incorrect about portrait mode.03:48
GeneralAntillesIt's not shipped with most of Nokia's default applications03:48
GeneralAntillesbut 3rd-party developers can provide support for it in their own applications very easily.03:48
JayBomb999GeneralAntilles:  What do you mean "incorrect about portrait mode"?03:49
GeneralAntillesHeck, we could provide patches for Nokia's open source stuff pretty easily.03:49
JayBomb999ah.. NM03:49
GeneralAntillesJayBomb999, he's been claiming that it'll be really difficult for developers to implement portrait.03:49
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GeneralAntillesAs for the media player there'll be plenty of alternatives.03:49
JayBomb999Oh I see.  It was hard to discern specifics view google translate03:50
JayBomb999Really?  Like?03:50
GeneralAntillesMAFW will make implementing 3rd party media players a lot easier.03:50
GeneralAntillesCanola, for one.03:50
JayBomb999I am pretty new to Maemo so forgive my ignorance.03:50
JayBomb999Yes I've seen canola running on a N810.  Looks good.  I'd be happy with that.03:51
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GeneralAntillesIt'll be even better in Fremantle.03:51
GeneralAntillesThanks to the hardware speedup if nothing else.03:51
oilinkiJayBomb999: canola looks good, but it has some really annoying features.. like trying to kill the program by clicking buttons for 10 times.03:52
JayBomb999What about a podcast player?  I dont' see that built into the media player...03:52
milos_JayBomb999: gpodder03:52
GeneralAntillesThe recent releases of which look absolutely amazing.03:53
JayBomb999I have seen gpodder for ubuntu/gnome (my primary OS) ans wasn't too impressed honestly.  Is it different in Maemo5?  Compatible with the UI?03:53
GeneralAntillesIt's different on Maemo 5.03:53
JayBomb999I'll check it out thanks..03:53
lcukJayBomb999, and you know something - thats fine03:54
lcukyou are free not to like gpodder03:54
lcukthere will be others03:54
lcukbut if it had been in the os and you didnt like it you would rant03:54
GeneralAntillesCanola does podcasts, too.03:54
lcukand it would be harder to remove03:54
AStormyes, with a plugin right now03:54
lcukJayBomb999, maemo is unrestricted03:55
AStormand does so fairly well03:55
AStormwell, mostly unrestricted03:55
AStormwe have hardware restrictions ;p03:55
lcukin what way is it restricted03:55
javispedro:P i'm not getting autobuilder emails03:55
JayBomb999I realize such initial trade-offs are the nature of the beast with a most open OS like Maemo.  As a linux enthusiast/geek I'm ok with that.03:55
AStormwhat tradeoffs?03:55
javispedrodid just died?03:56
AStormwhich phone does podcasts by default?03:56
lcukthen as a linux maemo enthusiast, you dont mind helping to build the barn03:56
JayBomb999Do I really need to say AStorm?03:56
lcuktheres a hammer and some wood over there03:56
AStormJayBomb999: yes, do.03:56
AStorm*by default*.03:56
AStormnot in Appstore.03:56
AStormand others?03:56
JayBomb999Well.. you only asked for one. :)03:57
AStormseems like is slow at responding03:57
lcukwhat if you dont like the media player on iphone03:57
lcukwhat do you do03:57
AStormDDoS? some server change?03:57
* lcuk really likes media player on tablet03:58
AStormjailbreak (yeah, real easy and all ;p )03:58
javispedrojust before i noticed autobuilder builds were finishing but I was not getting emails03:58
AStormand install another one03:58
JayBomb999I agree with the point you're making lcuk.03:58
* lcuk was also happy with the one on 81003:58
JayBomb999I am not a fan of "walled gardens".03:58
JayBomb999That said, I do like the media player on the iPhone.  What I dont' like is the necessity of iTunes and the encrypted USB connection.03:59
AStormthe one on n810 was ok03:59
AStorm\but looked very plain03:59
AStormand video playback was slow (mostly hardware reasons)03:59
GeneralAntillesNo more slow video playback. ;)04:00
JayBomb999sorry... encrypted database might be more accurate.04:00
AStormJayBomb999: try to fight with the most important proponent of DRM04:00
GeneralAntillesActually, I wonder how battery life will be with video playback.04:00
AStormGeneralAntilles: sure I know :)04:00
GeneralAntillesAudio decoding on ARM, video on DSP.04:00
AStormor both on ARM for less demanding formats?04:00
AStorm(to save power)04:01
GeneralAntillesWonder if MAFW has some clues.04:01
AStormh264 certainly needs that DSP code04:01
javispedroMAFW uses gst.04:01
javispedroactually I remember reading it has swappable backends04:01
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, yeah, it does.04:01
javispedroqt/phonon switch hint.04:02
AStormyes, although phonon does gst as well04:02
AStormand I see no real reason not to use gst w/ Qt04:02
AStormunless they want full Qt code.04:03
javispedroAStorm: someday phonon might target whatever Symbian uses04:03
JayBomb999I'm sure this is asked often here, but has anyone actually used the N900 personally?  Demo or otherwise?04:03
AStorm(and phonon has been debugged, since it's right now hardly useful)04:03
GeneralAntillesJayBomb999, nearly anybody here who has is under NDA.04:03
GeneralAntillesJayBomb999, there are demo units in many of Nokia's big stores, though.04:03
AStormwell, I can tell you I don't have it.04:03
* lcuk has an n90004:04
JayBomb999I live in Detroit and we don't have Nokia stores... or an economy in general.04:04
* javispedro has not either. 04:04
Pavlov<3 n90004:04
javispedrowe have nokia stores here but then I'd doubt they have the n900.04:04
AStormwe're not talking about chinese ripoffs actually04:04
lcukjavispedro, here?04:04
AStormunless you guys are under NDA04:04
javispedrohere. near my home ;)04:04
* lcuk cant help but be disclosed04:05
lcuki keep forgetting where that is04:05
JayBomb999I was curious about the transistions.  My biggest concerns derived from viewing demos is that the transitions seemed... laggy.  I am hoping this gets smoothed about before it arrives at my door. :)04:05
JayBomb999I don't know if opinions on this issue would be prohibited by NDAs.04:06
lcukJayBomb999, i can categorically say it is the best internet tablet i have ever owned.  it manages to expand in every single area on the strengths the n810 had and adds entirely new weapons as well04:06
* javispedro read that as "being concerned about the transistors"04:07
AStormJayBomb999: that's a software problem04:07
lcukJayBomb999, my software runs faster and smoother on this device than it has run on the previous devices04:07
AStormthis means, it's fixable04:07
lcuk(tho i manage to get it to run well there too)04:07
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JayBomb999lcuk: That's good to here.  Does anyone think I'm wrong about the transitions?   I've voiced this opinion before and been told I'm nuts...04:08
Robot101in general, the transitions last as long as the apps take to redraw/appear/etc04:08
Robot101they've been shaved down to as long as they need to be04:09
Robot101so making them faster doesn't actually get you anything sooner04:09
Robot101it just looks less good04:09
lcuk:) i have never concerned myself with perfection in many things, but i can the n900 is slick and the transitions are better than anything i can manually code04:09
lcuk+1 robink04:09
lcuki remember balancing transitions in old and new liqbase and without transitions actually got the system too fast04:10
JayBomb999lcuk:  I suppose I'm a bit more shallow then. :)  I really like a fluid UI.04:10
lcukas do i :)04:10
AStormJayBomb999: don't buy the N900 or any phone then04:11
lcuki wrote my liqbase on the back of a poor ui on n810, on n900 im wondering just how fudging much time ive wasted04:11
AStormnone of them has a fluid UI04:11
AStormnot even the Apple's04:11
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JayBomb999AStorm:  My experience has been different.  3Gs and Palm pre are pretty smooth in my opinon.  Also, while not a phone, the Zune HD's UI is pretty spectacular too.  Just saying...04:12
lcukhow easy are they to code for?04:13
lcukis it open?04:13
JayBomb999It doesn't have to be fancy, I just notice stuttering and hesitation a lot when going full screen from "the dashboard".04:13
javispedropalm pre, smooth?04:13
lcukwell - pre yeah tis04:13
lcukseems it04:13
lcukis it now04:13
FireFox16try the SDK ;)04:13
Pavlovjavispedro: the zune hd's music app is great04:13
Pavlovthey nailed it04:13
javispedroFireFox16: on a PC, even windows xp is "smooth".04:14
AStormPalm Pre is really *not* smooth :)04:14
AStormit is fast, but that has nothing to do with smoothness04:14
JayBomb999I am only speaking about transitions here... not the OS. :)04:14
* javispedro sighs04:14
AStormjavispedro: could you link to a movie showing that problem?04:15
javispedrothe only phone I tried, and you tell me is fast.04:15
AStormnot *really* fast04:15
AStormfast for a phone ;.04:15
Pavlovmy problem with the zune hd was i was on a train when i was using one04:16
lcukold rotary telephones had amazing transitions04:16
Pavlovand couldn't connect to the internet ;/04:16
lcukthe way the dial would slide smoothly back round after you reached a number was amazing04:16
javispedronot only amazing, but analog. infinite fluidity.04:16
javispedrotake that!04:16
lcukcomputers, pah!04:17
JayBomb999Fluidity is a good word.04:17
lcukwe need arduino devices to linkup those transitions04:17
* javispedro checks in case he made it up04:17
javispedrono, google returns quite a few hits04:17
JayBomb999That's what I'd like the transistions to look like in Maemo... fluid.04:17
lcukJayBomb999, my code slides around on a layer of baconfat04:17
AStormheh, rotary phones aren't really smooth04:17
lcukits slippery smooth04:17
lcukmine was04:17
AStormno, smooth were those phones where you had to crank to achieve line potential04:18
AStorm*that* was smooth04:18
AStormno need to turn any wheels04:18
lcukJayBomb999, every device has times when the cpu is a bit busy04:18
lcukits like women, most of the month they look good04:18
lcukbut then for a few days you cant get close04:18
javispedrosmooth is when you beat the n900 until you get fine black powder.04:18
javispedronow that powder *is* smooth.04:18
lcukdont breath that in04:18
lcukits maemo smoke04:18
Pavlovi was thinking about buying a blendtec04:18
Pavlovand seeing if it blends04:18
javispedroyes, I read the advice from the blendtec evil man.04:19
lcukjavispedro, you are up late btw04:19
lcukeven im goin to bed now!04:19
javispedroyeah. waking up late tomorrow.04:19
* javispedro is so lazy... and evil.04:20
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lcuki need to get drunk soon04:20
lcuknot tonight tho04:20
JayBomb999Never drink and code...04:20
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lcukballmer peak04:21
lcukits ricky, but can pay off04:21
lcukrisky even04:21
* lcuk isnt bianca04:21
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lcukgnite folks \o04:25
JayBomb999Night.  Thanks for the info.04:26
javispedroi'll leave too04:26
javispedroautobuilder broken.04:27
javispedroprobably in berserk mode since it failed building but then "queued the packages for loading into extras-devel".04:28
javispedrowell, see you, bye04:29
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GeneralAntillesI have to download Flash to download the stupid Nokia software updater because Nokia hates North America and wont provide freaking OTA updates here.05:42
GeneralAntillesWow and it automagically installed Google toolbar without my permission.05:43
microlithwhat are you installing it to?05:44
GeneralAntillesI'm trying to update my 5800.05:44
GeneralAntillesWhich, of course, requires Windows XP05:44
ProteousI've done a OTA update on my n9705:48
GeneralAntilles5800 apparently isn't supported in NAM05:49
GeneralAntillesNokia's complete and utter failure to sell devices here is completely and utterly deserved.05:50
GeneralAntillesOwning a Nokia device in the US == pain.05:50
ProteousI love mine05:50
Proteousso :P05:50
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GeneralAntillesI can't even get v30 on here.05:52
GeneralAntillesSymbian. Is. The. Worst.05:52
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GeneralAntillesI'd stick this piece of shit in a blender if I had the money.05:55
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GeneralAntillesMaemo's the only thing that can save the company.06:09
GeneralAntillesI mean, how incompetent can you get?06:09
GeneralAntillesI'd be impressed if it weren't so infuriating.06:09
Pavlovwhy would you own a symbian phone in the US?06:12
Pavlovaside from testing06:13
Proteousbecuase WM sucks06:14
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GeneralAntillesPavlov, other options are limited.06:24
GeneralAntillesI'd heard good things about them.06:24
GeneralAntillesI wanted a touchscreen phone that sucks less than the iPhone and Android.06:24
GeneralAntillesI'm an idiot.06:24
GeneralAntillesSeriously, though, it's like Nokia WANTS to fail in the US.06:26
GeneralAntillesThe other side of it, though, is that the N900 is a fucking revolution.06:27
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: what are you complaining about?06:28
GeneralAntillesThe shittastic 5800.06:29
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PavlovGeneralAntilles: the n97 is pretty bad06:33
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Pavlovi still think the iphone is the best/most together/consistent phone06:33
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Pavlovthe pre is probably 2nd, closely followed by the htc magic06:34
Pavlovn900 in there somewhere prolly06:34
Pavlovn900 really needs a capacitive touchscreen06:34
GeneralAntillesCapacitive would suck so hard at 800x48006:35
GeneralAntillesiPhone is just plain boring.06:36
GeneralAntillesYou couldn't hit any small widgets.06:36
Pavlovstuff still has to be finger friendly06:36
GeneralAntillesThe KDE/OpenOffice/whatever ports are all right out the window.06:36
Pavlovmm's are all mm's06:36
Pavlovah, yes06:36
GeneralAntillesYou also can't sketch.06:36
Pavlovit would be less friendly for random linux apps06:36
GeneralAntillesDid you ever try MyPaint on the N800?06:36
GeneralAntillesIt would hurt the platform.06:36
Pavlovit would be a substantially better device and phone06:37
GeneralAntillesand a good resistive is competitive with capacitive for sensitivity.06:37
Pavlovat the cost of some of its current market, perhaps06:37
GeneralAntillesNot for me, thanks.06:37
PavlovGeneralAntilles: it really isn't06:37
GeneralAntillesYeah, Nokia's great at abandoning its current markets.06:37
GeneralAntillesPavlov, having using both rather extensively, I find it is.06:37
Pavlovgentle swipes on a restive touchscreen simply don't register06:37
GeneralAntillesWell, duh.06:37
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't have an EM field hovering over it.06:38
Pavlovwhere as they move my capacitive screens around as i'd expect06:38
GeneralAntillesThis sounds like a personal problem.06:38
Pavlovits a market problem06:38
Pavlovpeople who are used to capacitive won't understand resistive06:38
Pavlovif you've never had a capacitive one, then sure you can learn resistive06:38
GeneralAntillesPersonally, capacitive people can go elsewhere.06:39
Pavlovthey will06:39
GeneralAntillesI'd rather have a device that works for me, not a device that works for a dozen other people.06:39
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* Stskeeps twitches at maemo-community06:59
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RST38hEldar published a new review.07:00
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Stskeepsdoes he keep on whining?07:01
RST38hOh yessss07:01
RST38hBut praises it too, partially07:02
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Stskeepsi think he may just have a bad batch07:03
RST38hWell, some of his complaints seem to be valid, others are just plain whining07:05
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zerojayRST38h: Like...?07:20
RST38hlike endless complaints abl=out lack of portrait mode07:21
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snuxollwell, the lack of a portrait mode is somewhat annoying, especially when the N900 looks like any other phone to most people07:33
snuxollwasn't such a big deal when there was only the N8XX and 770 to worry about07:34
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* bubill hi all09:22
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Stskeepswhat on earth is Archentgi (sp) smoking? P09:45
RST38hSts: Another fanboy09:50
RST38hLogical thinking impaired.09:51
RST38hcould somebody show me an example of accelerometer use?09:51
RazumihinGreat we have fanboys even before the device is out to public...09:52
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StskeepsRST38h: there's a wiki page on it09:52
RST38hurl? =)09:52
RST38hRazumihin: Crazies will get obsessed over anything, they do not need a particular device09:53
* Myrtti feels crazy09:53
RST38hAt least he is not a nazi or a mind control freak =)09:53
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* RST38h winds up Myrtti09:54
MyrttiI'm wound up already09:54
MyrttiI've heard the intro of Moby's In My Life for two and half hours already09:55
Myrttiin my head09:55
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RST38hSts: found it!09:56
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* RST38h thanks lcuk in absentia09:57
RST38hmoo tekojo09:58
Myrttione day I'll resign and start a new life as organic carrot farmer09:59
Stskeepsexcellent choice09:59
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Myrttior move to Hebrides and make a living selling handknitted mittens in Etsy10:00
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RST38hWhere would you get your food other than carrots?10:02
tekojoRST38h moo!10:03
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MyrttiI do knit nicely, I'm sure I'd make enough moneys to buy lamb mince in the Hebrides10:03
tekojoMyrtti excellent plan!10:03
* Myrtti kicks sed/awk/bash/grep/LaTeX in the groin10:04
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dslvictimhello world10:14
bubill331hello maemo10:16
dslvictimdid people comment on ?10:17
Stskeepssure, but it's hard to impress us when we know the tablets are very versatile devices ;)10:18
bubill331tablets can phone ??10:19
dslvictimwell, i missed it :)10:19
dslvictimthe n900 isn't a tablet10:19
Stskeepsper definition it is kinda a tablet ..10:19
dslvictimwell, short of a couple of annoying bugs, it's the best phone i've ever used :)10:20
Stskeepsbut a n810 could phone over skype or SIP ..10:20
* dslvictim should have upgraded to a later version before traveling10:20
dslvictimdsl=damn small linux fwiw, this hostel in krakow is using a version that included ff1.0.6 :o10:20
* dslvictim sadly neglected to ask the desk about a certain tour in time and missed it :(10:21
Stskeepsah, hi timeless10:21
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Stskeepshow\s poland?10:21
* dslvictim took a bunch of night photos10:21
dslvictimborder control was unfortunate10:22
dslvictimthere was at one point only one line for non EU nationals10:22
* Stskeeps wonders idly if it is a bad sign one of his headphone plugs is warm - after dropping it yesterday to the coffee10:23
dslvictimand the lady trying to enter was stuck for a really long time10:23
dslvictimyeah, probably not a good idea10:23
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dslvictimdid you see the headphones that were contact aware? iirc sony announced them a few days ago10:23
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Stskeepsi should start using my SE A2DP set.. best headphones i ever had10:24
dslvictimok, second battery charged, and i have a walking tour in 40mins... what to do :)10:24
Mrbut it's a s60 5th plateform10:24
dslvictimmr: eh??10:24
StskeepsMr, what? :P10:24
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Stskeepsbubill: N900 is Maemo10:24
Stskeepsnot Symbian10:24
Stskeeps770, N800, N810 is Maemo too :P10:24
bubillbut a n810 could phone over skype or SIP ..----10:25
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Stskeepssure - and that's maemo mgaic10:25
dslvictimalthough skype in n900 is integrated w/ the call app10:26
dslvictimunlike the previous version10:26
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dslvictimthat'd be spiffy i suppose if i cared about my phone bill and could find my username+password10:26
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bubillmaemo in the future10:27
dslvictimgah. please remind me to thrash the ui designer for the status menu10:27
dslvictimi can't trigger MfE from it anymore10:27
dslvictimnice, there10:29
dslvictim's no space in /tmp10:29
* dslvictim wonders which apps will break because of that :o10:29
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dslvictimcool, wifi here has 600+K/s uplink for me :)10:31
dslvictim(and then it stalls, i guess that's burst uplink)10:32
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johnxdslvictim, not too much broke on maemo4 for lack of /tmp10:41
johnxit broke because of other non-standard stuff first :)10:41
JaffaMorning, all10:45
dslvictimjohnx: good to know10:45
dslvictimi know that some parts of the call app break if / is full10:46
* dslvictim needs to check to see if that's still the case10:46
dslvictimanyway, i have a tour to catch10:46
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Jaffazerojay: google-album-art-downloader doesn't work for me: a) the result I get from Google Images doesn't contain the URLs in question; b) changing it to use the search API and a regexp work perfectly; except gio/gvfs isn't letting me read the file once I've recompiled it.10:50
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atx_fhcould someone give me a hint, how i get qemu system emulation + the sbrsh devkit working in the scratchbox dev. env. ?11:24
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RST38hTilt input added11:49
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lcukjohnx, when are you arriving for the summit11:51
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wazdhello all12:04
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lcukmornin wazd12:11
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wazdlcuk: what have you done :)12:15
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wazdlcuk: heya :)12:15
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KhertanHi !12:18
lcukwazd :'( it wasnt me12:18
lcukhi! khertan!12:19
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RST38hItalian police and "reptile wranglers" have seized a 1.7-metre-long crocodile allegedly used by a Naples Mafia boss to "intimidate" extortion victims.12:30
wazdRST38h: heya :)12:30
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RST38hhello to you too12:31
bubill331anbody know some java channel of irc ?12:31
wjtRST38h: they sent it to rehab \o/12:31
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glasscrocs on coke?12:31
RST38hthat is going to be by secondary ingestion12:32
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gomiambubill331: you can try writing commands without dots in front with /say or /quote12:34
gomiam/say /msg gomiam Something like this.12:35
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wazdbtw, M-R Maemo5 review is out12:36
wazdnothing serious as expected12:37
RST38hwazd: Same stuff - no portrait, no MMS12:37
wazdRST38h: no office editor :D12:38
RST38hwazd: "Wait for firmware v3, like iPhone"12:38
RST38hDoesn't DataWiz provide that?12:38
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X-FadePretty funny to see who he has added to contacts :)12:40
wazdand fake appointments :D12:41
wazd"Download M6 build" elouel :)12:42
fralsis it out in english yet?12:42
wazdX-Fade: no Quim and Jussi though :)12:44
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RST38hfrals: tomorrow13:02
fralsroger, thanks :)13:03
RST38hfrals: Although I guess we can translate it to English, if it is really needed13:03
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RST38hThere isn't much new though. He loves the address book. He gives passing grade to the browser, saying that "iphone is still better"13:03
fralsjust curious if he says what fw/sw version hes using and what the current is13:04
admiral0|wrkhi. i was wondering... which are the drivers of n900 that are closed src?13:04
wazdbetter because it has portrait view13:04
RST38hHates the phone (says phone dropped 3G calls in Korea and has some UI problems)13:04
RST38hfrals: He admitted of using 34.1413:04
RST38hfrals: I.e. August13:04
fralsok ty13:04
RST38hHe wants the portrait view everywhere and calls N900 a "geek device"13:04
JaffaAnd given Nokia are producing new builds every night, this is a very *very* old build13:05
RST38hSays nothing will be fixed until Summer 2010 when the second Fremantle device is apparently due13:05
RST38hLooks like he is either not aware of SSU or has chosen to ignore it13:05
aSIMULAter34-14 geez13:06
RST38hJaffa: I can produce builds every night with a script, it is not any indication of improvement. Still, August is kinda far off13:06
RST38hAh, almost forgot: he wants the MMS :)13:06
JaffaRST38h: Yes, of course. But the point is they are working on it again13:07
RST38hAnd apparently thinks that adding portrait mode is so "hard" Nokia only managed to do it for the Phone13:07
suihkulokkifunny calender too13:07
X-FadeRST38h: That is why gpodder use it too, right :D13:07
JaffaAnd Conboy13:08
fralsso hes not a programmer by a long shot and assumes a bit much then13:08
X-FadeYou know what they say about assume :)13:08
fralsaye :)13:08
JamieBennettJaffa do you have a copy of the travel agents email for the Summit, I never got sent one :(13:09
JamieBennettand I need to sort out how I'm getting there13:09
fralson another note, serving your gf with waffles w/ whipped cream and jam scores you major points13:10
RST38hXFade: I tried explaining that to him in general terms but he is kinda jittery when presented with the facts13:10
fralsalso makes you full enough to throw up halfway thru the day :p13:10
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X-FadeRST38h: I wouldn't waste my time ;)13:10
X-FadeRST38h: Let him have his opinion. That makes it fun.13:11
fralsbtw, any decent irc clients for the previous maemo versions out? i.e. touchfriendly?13:11
fralsor is ssh + screen&irssi the way to do it? ;)13:12
wazdRST38h: and he still thinks that Nokia developer and third party maemo dev are same people :)13:12
aSIMULAterssh + screen + irssi :P13:12
RST38hwazd: He went into full anal defense mode yesterday around midnight13:13
fralsroger aSIMULAter ;)13:13
RST38hwazd: You should have been more polite with him, to prolong the fun =)13:13
aSIMULAterwell thsi is how i do it at least13:13
wazdRST38h: no, seriously, he's talking crap using my quotes out of the context, and says that it should be like that13:14
fralsyeah i figured that to be a good way, but buttons to change channels would be cool, i think, unless you remap some of the keys on the hw kboard13:15
RST38hwazd: that is normal13:16
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lcukwazd, if you dont feed the trolls he cannot take your quotes out of context13:26
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ccookefrals: A while back I was considering some irssi plugins to work with maemo.13:26
pupniksuch as?13:26
ccookefrals: preferably ones that would work from the other side of an ssh link. :-)13:27
ccookepupnik: well, in maemo 4 terms, notifications when someone queries you13:27
pupniksame idea here13:27
ccookepupnik: how far did you get?13:27
pupnikno beeping on tablet yet13:28
pupnikbut beeping in urxvt13:28
pupnikthru ssh + screen13:28
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lbthmm  not heard of this before...
lcukRST38h, mmm ? "RST38h thanks lcuk in absentia"13:30
lcuklbt, secret project by keesj? :D13:31
pupnik beep13:31
RST38hlcuk: For the accelerometer code in wiki13:31
* lcuk smiles13:31
_berto_is there any problem with the git server at garage ?13:31
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X-Fade_berto_: What's up?13:32
_berto_error: Cannot access URL, return code 1813:32
_berto_i cannot push anything13:32
X-Fade_berto_: Ferenc seems to be working on git, I'll try to find out what the problem is.13:34
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_berto_X-Fade: thanks13:34
pupnikccooke you just need to get 1) irssi generating ascii bells (see config) 2) ensure screen and ssh do not mangle bells and 3) ensure that your term program (client) generates a beep on ctrÃl-g13:35
ccookepupnik: that's not really what I wanted13:35
ccookeI'd thought of actual text notifications, and clicking on them causing irssi to be refocussed and switch to the relevant tab13:36
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pupnikk.  need to write irssi plugin plus maemo daemon13:36
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ccookeit's easy enough with screen - you end up dedicating one screen window to it.13:38
pupnikmakes me want some middleware13:39
pupniklike the irssi plugin, instead of using some custom protocol, could appear itself as an irssi server13:40
ccookethe simple (and ugly) way is to make a plugin that writes a logfile of events, then your daemon does an ssh+tail on the logfile and parses it for notifications...13:40
ccookeWhat would make more sense, though, is irssiproxy13:41
* zerojay yawns13:43
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pupnikeverything looks like a bad compromise13:43
ccookeso you end up with an ssh to set up port forwardings, then irssi-proxy running in a screen session on the tablet. That way, the plugin can just do the maemo stuff itself13:43
ccookepupnik: that's because everything *is* a bad compromise :-)13:43
pupnikthat works13:45
pupnikjust dont send stuff over wlan U dont need to13:45
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pupniksave batt, i think13:46
ccookeit would also be more responsive13:46
pupnikhow about something more general13:47
ccookea generic daemon for notifications?13:47
pupnikirssi plugin reroutes pms to some IM service, which could run on maemo, or phone ot anything13:47
ccookethat would be Complicated.13:48
pupnikk just pondering13:48
ccookealso, the point for me is that I like the irssi interface13:48
pupnikbah, find out how to give maemo xterm audible bell or LED flask, and im set13:49
pupnikand/or LED flash13:50
ccookepupnik: I can do it with screen...13:50
pupniki think it might be in stty settings13:50
ccookejust attach a filter to the screen window, then trigger a bell sound every time it sees a ^a! (*shudder*)13:50
pupnikit is the law that terms handle bell character :) just got to find the setting13:51
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X-Fade_berto_: Is the problem still there?13:57
_berto_X-Fade: checkin13:58
_berto_X-Fade: yes13:58
_berto_CURLE_PARTIAL_FILE (18) A file transfer was shorter or larger than expected. This happens when the server first reports an expected transfer size, and then delivers data that doesn't match the previously given size.13:58
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* lcuk ponders14:19
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Maceri would use chrome on this xp box but...14:24
Macerchrome is still underdeveloped14:24
Macerlike android14:24
Macergoogle does release some semi-good shit14:24
Macertoo bad they seem to fail on follow through14:25
Maceri could only imagine the horror that is googleos that will be coming out14:25
* Macer installs firefox14:26
* aquatix is rather happy with what HTC did to Android with Sense14:27
Macerin the US the tethering app was taken from the market14:28
Macerbecause it is against the tmob agreement14:28
aquatixthat's not Android's fault14:28
Macergood thing i installed BEFORE it was taken off the market heh14:28
aquatixblame your stupid providers :)14:28
Macerdidn't say it was. was just saying ;)14:28
aquatixMacer: be sure to backup the .apk14:28
aquatixotoh, i really like the MoDaCo rom O:)14:29
Maceraquatix: no need. i just won't touch the phone until the n900 comes out14:29
aquatixheh, fair enough14:29
Maceri don't like android anyways14:29
Maceri think mostly because of its app development14:29
Macerand its immaturity in certain areas14:29
Macerlike the almost complete lack of bt support14:29
Macerthe apps are sometimes horrible14:30
aquatixwith a rooted phone, that's less of an issue14:30
aquatixbut still an issue14:30
Macerand its market is full of crap apps14:30
aquatixmyeah, so is each other market14:30
Maceraquatix: well. depends on the rom you are running14:30
Macerlike i have to run hidd manually (after building it myself in their sdk)14:30
Macerin order to use a bt keyboard?14:30
Macerwhat crap :)14:31
aquatixhm, didn't try a bt keyboard yet14:31
Maceri mean the stuff is there for the support and they are relying on the community in order to keep their OS vaiable14:31
aquatixmy iGo worked out of the box with my n810 and sony ericsson m600i14:31
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Macerwhy pay your own devs when you can have some 14 yr old pumping out garbage apps? :)14:31
Macernot to mention the quickoffice crap14:32
Maceri was disgusted with that one14:32
aquatixbut that was crap on my m600i too14:32
Maceron symbian quickoffice was totally awesome14:32
Macerat least on my n95 it was14:32
Macerso i figured the android ver would be just as good14:32
aquatixhm, true14:32
Macerand it was only a viewr they were selling for $2014:32
aquatixon UIQ3 you could at least edit stuff14:32
Macerjumping on the android market get rich bandwagon14:32
* aquatix doesn't use office apps anyway14:33
Maceraquatix: i do ;)14:33
aquatixbut a decent spreadsheet could be nice14:33
Maceri thought androffice was going to be an entire suite14:33
Macerbut it was just a spreadsheet editor14:33
aquatixthere's a decent spreadsheet app btw14:33
Macerand the devs "are working on a document editor"14:33
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aquatixheh, ouch14:33
aquatix <- that one looks decent14:34
aquatixbut i'd really would like a port of gnumeric :)14:34
* aquatix loves gnumeric on maemo14:34
Macerwell. abiword and gnumeric are very lightweight. but they work :)14:35
Macerwish they had cups support and could print from the n810 directly but blah14:35
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Maceryeah. androffice is still only a spreadsheet editor14:35
Macerso they should seriously just change the name to "andsheet" or something :)14:36
Macereither way. there is no easy way to get a bt kb to work on an android phone14:36
Macerif i didn't have root on my phone it wouldn't work at all14:36
Macerso far it's been about a year and android has been fail14:36
aquatixmyeah, it works for me14:36
aquatixonly no bt keyboard14:37
Maceri couldn't believe they released the phone without a2dp support14:37
aquatixbut i love my Hero as a phone14:37
Maceri haven't tried a hero rom yet. i'd rather have working apps than a bunch of eye candy14:37
* Macer sighs thinking about an n90014:37
aquatixwell, it's not only eye candy14:37
aquatixthey actually managed to put in quite some usability stuff14:37
* SpeedEvil sig11s thinking about a n900.14:37
aquatixwhich nokia put in the n900 too14:37
aquatixooh, androffice can edit .ods14:38
Macerbut no doc editor?14:38
Macer:) it's not an office suite14:38
Macerit's a spreadsheet editor14:38
Macerquickoffice on the n95 was so awesome14:38
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aquatixi only need a text editor for my latex stuff14:39
Maceri typed entire term papers on it14:39
aquatixmaybe a latex processor would be nice ;)14:39
Macerwith my n95 + su8w14:39
aquatixmaybe i can build an app to offload that to a server14:39
aquatixnow there's an idea14:39
Macerah well. i have to go clean a little bit14:39
aquatixMacer: term papers on n95?14:39
aquatixwith bt keyboard i presume?14:39
aquatixotherwise: eek :)14:40
aquatixanyways, good luck14:41
fralsim still feeling a bit sad about retiring my n95 for the n900 (when my order lands)14:41
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fralson the other hand i have a feeling i wont regret it :p musicplayer dying while browsing t.m.o is getting annoying ;)14:42
aquatixi rather liked my combo of n810 and SE m600i14:42
aquatixghehe, yeah14:42
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fralsthis guy seems a bit more positive than the russian :D14:43
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wazdI think there's something really wrong with Eldar's nxx15:06
wazdMaybe someone sent him broken one like a joke :D15:07
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abbergie, I cannot thumb up packages on, either from FF or IE. What's wrong there?15:09
X-Fadeab: You probably can, but takes a while for it to show.15:09
wazdare you logged in?15:09
abX-Fade, no activity to my presses15:09
abwazd, sure15:09
X-Fadeab: It just looks that way.15:09
fralsab: I've had instances where I didn't get any feedback when it happend, but after a refresh it showed up15:10
X-Fadeab: Because there is no feedback what so ever.15:10
wazdab: just in case :)15:10
abX-Fade, ok, now it showed up15:10
X-Fadeab: Styling is pretty broken yes, do ping bergie about that ;)15:10
abanyone else, please thumb up "ogg support" package15:10
abwe need two more votes to promote it15:10
X-Fadeab: Only after actually testing it of course :)15:11
abX-Fade, that is what we all did here :)15:11
abMediaPlayer is playing Ogg out loud right now on my table15:12
fralson the brainstorm, is there a way to report a solution as duplicate? ie #2 and #4 on
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X-Fadeab: Anyway, there is a supposed to be a 10 day quarantine period.15:15
X-Fadeab: But I haven't implemented that yet, so you might be lucky ;)15:16
abX-Fade, I doubt there is a development quarantine :)15:16
X-Fadeab: promotion quarantine.15:17
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lcukgrrr @ lazy vdvsx15:22
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tekojoab ogg-support seems to have 10/1015:25
kulvethat was fast15:26
kulveit got 3 thumbs since yesterday and now it got the rest quickly :)15:26
JaffaYay, attitude is up to 4:
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lcuk:D jaffa! you included a link  to the package15:28
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Jaffalcuk: could've been worse, I could've put a link to the AJAX request for thumbs up ;-)15:29
lcukand it wouldv been good15:30
* Jaffa wonders how well midgard's voting handles CSRF15:30
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lcukjaffa, we have a webbrowser on device - i think it needs using as suggested - perhaps the shortest/quickest method would be to open browser on testing page from ham15:31
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atx_fhbye the way, JNI works fine under meamo arm :)15:31
X-FadeJaffa: That requires login at least.15:31
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abkulve, yep, smart promotion within the development team15:34
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kulveI promoted the package again. I guess that means that it ends up to extras..?15:35
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X-Fadekulve: yes15:35
kulvegood :)15:36
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Anunakinwhat is the best store (price and time to receive) to buy a N900 ?15:44
X-FadeAnunakin: Everything is preorder still, so no actual sales yet.15:45
_berto_Anunakin: if you live in the UK you can get one with a contract15:45
RST38hX-Fade: Could you enable extras-testing/non-free and *disable* promotions to extras from there?15:46
RST38hX-Fade: Or will it be too much trouble?15:46
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X-FadeRST38h: I will open -devel for non-free soon, I hope.15:47
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X-FadeRST38h: But testing requires promotion, as we need to do the dependency checks etc.15:48
X-FadeRST38h: So that takes a bit longer.15:48
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javispedroRST38h: i uploaded openttd today15:55
RST38hX-Fade: Oh15:56
javispedroRST38h: can you use the Game options menu while in non-scaled mode?15:56
RST38hjavis: Seen it, but could not scale =)15:56
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RST38hjavis: It does not scale for me15:56
javispedroRST38h: did you select a "lower" res in game options?15:56
RST38hjavis: Yes, and it simply showed black screen15:56
javispedroif you can't phisically hit the options widgets i'll find a way to set that from the cmd line/config file15:57
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javispedrook, works here.15:57
RST38hjavis: No I managed to set it, let me try again15:58
RST38hThis is on startup, right?15:58
javispedroyea, startup screen -> game options15:58
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JaffaX-Fade: How does it identify "Bugtracker" on the package page?16:00
X-FadeJaffa: I added those manually.16:00
X-FadeAnd you can use Xsbc-bugtracker of course ;)16:01
X-FadeXsbc-Bugtracker even.16:01
JaffaX-Fade: I was about to introduce XSBC-Bugtracker (once I found the actual name) for Attitude, but then saw it was already there16:01
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* Stskeeps yawns16:01
* Jaffa still isn't quite sure about the armel/i386 split for comments/rankings etc.16:01
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X-FadeJaffa: They should be viewed separate but rating should probably only be on the armel part.16:02
RST38hjavis: Tested it again. Shows black screen, briefly flashing the image when task switching16:02
RST38hjavis: I selected 400x24016:03
javispedrothat's fullscreen16:03
javispedroselect the lower one.16:03
javispedroI know it does not make much sense in n900 but on n810 having fullscreen is a must.16:03
RST38hTrying it on n81016:04
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javispedroah, sorry :P16:05
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javispedrothen I cannot think of anything else other than a bad updaterects call, lemme check16:06
RST38hjavis: Same thing at 400x21016:06
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JaffaX-Fade: I think I'm going to change Attitude to try and use Clutter or even OpenGL-ES rather than Cairo. Feel free to raise a bug and you can get some karma ;-)16:27
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X-FadeJaffa: Heh, it is a bit slideshow-ish ;)16:27
tigertmake a bubble-level mode16:28
tigertand calibration adjustment16:28
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tigertit shows a bit off for me - maybe do a 10 sec sampling and filter to find the most stable value16:28
tigertof course one needs a straight surface to begin with :)16:29
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Jaffatigert: timsamoff's drawing me some nice graphics for a bubblelevel mode16:30
Jaffatigert: It's doing sampling at the moment, but Cairo not using any 2D accel's a bit of a pain16:30
Jaffatigert: It's doing sampling at the moment, but Cairo not using any 2D accel's a bit of a pain16:30
* Jaffa wants to get Hermes up and into extras-testing ASAP. That'll be much more popular (and useful)16:31
X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, it maxes out the cpu ;)16:31
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JaffaX-Fade: That's not a QA requirement ;-p16:31
X-FadeJaffa: Does now waste energy? :)16:32
RST38hJaffa: I just open fb0 and bang it directly16:32
JaffaRST38h: Heh16:32
javispedroopenvg! openvg!16:32
tigertJaffa: cool16:32
X-FadeBut the SGX should even have hardware dithering.16:32
RST38hunless you need to zoom or draw lots of stuff, direct banging is the best option16:32
RST38hWhy would you need to dither in 16bpp?16:33
tigertwhats hermes?16:33
RST38hOr do you mean antialiasing?16:33
X-FadeRST38h: Banding16:33
SpeedEvil16bpp has only 5 bits of red and blue16:33
SpeedEvilbanding is unfortunately obvious on some images16:33
RST38hX-Fade: mmm, at our size of the screen? :)16:34
X-FadeRST38h: Yeah, start attitude and see :)16:34
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RST38hBlizzard actually does antialiasing, but this is different...16:34
Jaffatigert: Hermes will make sure your contacts have pictures and birthdays against them, if you use Facebook or Twitter16:35
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JaffaX-Fade: BTW, Attitude 0.0.6 still shows up in the Repository QA Queue, even 0.0.8 is in there as well16:41
X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, bug..16:42
X-FadeI'll remove 0.0.6 completely.16:42
JaffaX-Fade: ta16:42
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kulveX-Fade: any idea how long it should take for a package to be shown in extras after promoting in testing?16:45
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Anunakinany here using "debian easy"?16:46
X-Fadekulve: Yeah, I know exacly how long.16:46
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* GeneralAntilles chuckles at the Mer thread.16:49
JaffaThe Mer sub-section thread?16:50
GeneralAntillesThe "Maemo Council" wants to steal my pocket lint!16:51
Stskeepswell at least they're taking pride in the community project16:52
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JaffaStskeeps: Indeed. The suggestion that "the powers that be" don't want Mer to succeed is a little insulting.16:59
JaffaStskeeps: What's your feeling on a Mer subsection? You pretty much decided last time it came up; time to revisit? Or do you agree with lbt, wait until it's closer to end-user ready?16:59
lbtI think there are + and -17:00
lbt+ makes it more official and brings attention (and maybe resource)17:00
lbt- makes it appear that it should be as glossy as N900 videos ... and people are unhappy and we get fights and distractions17:01
* GeneralAntilles will point out again that it's shit like that that takes the fun out of this job.17:01
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Stskeepslet's make the people happy? :P17:01
GeneralAntillesSteal their pocket lint!17:02
GeneralAntillesThen their paranoid delusions can be right.17:02
jaskaand knit screen wipers from the lint?17:02
X-FadeLess talk, more doing.17:02
JaffaThere's a Mer hacking push at the summit? Let's create the sub-forum then, and populate it with a prepared sticky?17:02
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JaffaDon't want to give the trolls the satisfaction of thinking they did it ;-)17:03
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Stskeepsi'd rather not want a repetition of the fact the smartq mer community warped out into a seperate forum, heh17:05
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GeneralAntillesCalibrating 5 LCDs takes forever.17:13
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zuiiis there anyone know how to install libhildonmm library?17:17
Stskeepsinstall it from extras?17:18
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zuiisorry, calling...17:20
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zuiithe sdk i installed is maemo5 beta217:26
asj_wrk- -- I find this disturbing17:26
Stskeepshah :P17:27
aquatixoh wow17:27
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lopzhi ;)17:27
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zuiithere is no extra source for libhildonmm17:28
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murrayczuii: Is this on Fremantle?17:28
murraycBasically, it's in extras-devel.17:29
zuiithx  let me see17:29
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zuiiinstalling..... thanks very much,murrayc17:34
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pupnik_mplayer seems (?) to have no way to tell codecs to timescale - eg playback mp3/mp4/ogg/aac etc fraöes at varying speeds (without changing pitch)17:41
infobotpupnik_ meant: mplayer seems (?) to have no way to tell codecs to timescale - eg playback mp3/mp4/ogg/aac etc frames at varying speeds (without changing pitch)17:42
pupnik_a slick media player should support that (flag to all @ nokia :)17:42
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pupnik_wish i had a job where i could tell  people what to do :)17:44
SpeedEvilGet a job as a traffic warden.17:44
asj_wrk-pupnik_: all jobs have people telling you want to do, run your own company with 50 staff, now you just have 100 customers tell you want to do17:45
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infobotasj_wrk- meant: pupnik_: all jobs have people telling you what to do, run your own company with 50 staff, now you just have 100 customers tell you what to do17:45
pupnik_is what made my comment ironic17:47
asj_wrk-ah well17:47
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pupnik_regardless, ill put a varispeed player on my to do list17:47
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pupnik_heres the reason: many non-native english speakers can understand fast native english better when played back timestretched to 0.7 speed17:48
asj_wrk-what do people use that for?17:48
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lardman|homeafternoon all17:49
pupnik_esp :)17:49
pupnik_how u dooing?17:49
SpeedEvilpupnik_: it's probably a filter I suspect, not a codec thing17:49
pupnik_no no no17:49
lardman|homehi pupnik_17:50
pupnik_mplayer seems (?) to have no way to tell codecs to timescale - eg playback mp3/mp4/ogg/aac etc fraÃmes at varying speeds (without changing pitch)17:50
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ShadowJKMplayer has a scaletempo filter17:50
SpeedEvilpupnik_: yes - that is not a thing a codec can often sanely do17:50
SpeedEvilpupnik_: it would be a filter17:50
ShadowJKCodecs have nothing to do with it17:50
pupnik_yes, that resamples the pcm audio17:50
ShadowJK-af scaletempo17:51
pupnik_sounds like shit17:51
ShadowJKMight be newer feature than rc1 though17:51
pupnik_mplayer -af scaletempo=scale=.6 bnt.mp317:51
SpeedEvilpupnik_: which did the required fft magic - some codecs - for example PCM or FLAC - have no idea at all of frequency spectrum - and would need to totally reimplement the same code to do pitch bending17:51
pupnik_without resampling the pcm stream as an audio plugin does17:51
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SpeedEvilYou fundamentally have to resample, the maths cannot be denied.17:52
pupnik_correct speedevil17:52
pupnik_any way you slice it, the mplayer codec api needs a new timescale variable17:52
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ShadowJKResampling is a different operation again :)17:53
pupnik_andso freq domain codecs can implement it17:53
zuiiis there anyone using ESbox now?17:53
zuiiHow to import a project?17:53
ShadowJKPupnik: what, shift the mp3 bands up on decode?17:53
pupnik_no, pkayback frames faster17:54
pupnik_pitch stays same17:54
ShadowJKIt doesn't work like that17:54
pupnik_oror slower17:54
pupnik_yes.. it.. does17:54
pupnik_freq domain does17:54
zuiii got it ...17:55
pupnik_good luck zuii17:55
ShadowJKi know of no codec that support it anyway. So an API is a chicken-egg problem right now anyways17:55
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pupnik_i just want it on the record that pupnik said "IT WILL BE SO" on18:03
pupnik_Thu Sep 24 17:03:02 CEST 200918:03
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zuiiI met a error when i want to run my gtk application, osso_initialize failed18:09
zuiianyone know how to fix it?18:10
zuiiuse can make it work, but why?18:11
sp3000environment stuff18:11
GAN800dneary, ping?18:12
sp3000depending on how you got your command line you may not have the ...dunno, dbus somethings and such18:12
dnearyGAN800: Pong!18:12
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zuiimaemo 5 beta218:12
GAN800dneary, so, I'd like to see about running through the site content and cleaning up everything before the Summit.18:12
GAN800Since we've got a lot of half-working (email forums) and legacy stuff.18:13
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acoutohi all18:14
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acoutowhich package do i have to install to use liblocation on scratchbox? (DIABLO_ARMEL)18:15
zuiii don't know....18:20
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lcukacouto, isnt liblocation the thing that uses gps?18:23
lcukor is  it the  one that does clock selection18:23
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acoutolcuk, gps18:24
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lcuknormally the sdk includes -dev versions of the libraries18:25
ShadowJKIs liblocation a diablo thing or is it new in fremantle?18:25
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acoutoShadowJK, diablo18:26
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* SpeedEvil stabs random unexplained lockups with nothing in syslog.18:30
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Stskeepswb qw18:32
qwerty12Thanks, STiAT18:32
qwerty12*Stskeeps, sorry STiAT18:32
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lcukSpeedEvil, what happens if the error is with writing to syslog18:34
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, new in Fremantle.18:35
SpeedEvillcuk: yeah - possible - I need to work out some method of oops-logging18:36
lcukGeneralAntilles, that would explain his problem then lol18:37
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* Jaffa wants a libgpsbt <-> liblocation bridge so that navicore will work on Fremantle18:38
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* GeneralAntilles wants a cake pony.18:39
* Myrtti votes for cheesecake18:39
RST38hWhy the hell do you want navicore?18:39
JaffaRST38h: Cos I've used Ovi Maps ;-)18:39
lardman|homeis libgpsbt closed?18:39
RST38his navicore better then?18:40
JaffaRST38h: Navicore seems quicker; does voice turn-by-turn nav; shows you your speed and I paid 10 quid for a 3 year licence for it.18:40
lardman|homeyeah same here18:40
GeneralAntillesBe nice if Nokia provided an upgrade route for Navicore users.18:40
JaffaRST38h: Navicore also uses pre-downloaded maps; whereas Ovi tends to want to download on demand (although their is an S60 area downloader, which might work for the Maemo version too)18:40
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RST38hI think you can predownload for ovi18:41
RST38hjust need to know where to place stuff18:41
JaffaYeah, there are various cache directories which look appropriate18:42
lardman|homeanyone got a link to the libgpsbt deb?18:42
JaffaOvi Maps looks pretty, but seems pretty limited in functionality (and the UI is a confusing mess IMHO)18:42
RST38hthe ovi maemo ui looks confusing though18:42
lcuki really like the nightmode18:42
lcukthe maps look like 3d tunnels and pipework18:42
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Jaffalardman|home: is the API ref18:44
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RST38hthat is changeable, but what the hell is my current address doing in the middle of the map? And why can't I remove it?18:44
JaffaRST38h: Yeah. Loads of wasted space, mostly in where you want to go18:44
qwerty12lardman|home: Diablo's one is part of nokia-binaries; look in your homedir for your SB account18:45
RST38hJaffa: My guess is that they ported S60 UI with 1:1 precision. But the S60 UI was designed for small screens and button input18:45
RST38hJaffa: On the tablet, it looks weird and out of place18:45
GeneralAntillesHopefully it'll improve.18:45
lardman|homeqwerty12: ok cool18:45
RST38hGeneral: It won't unless 10-20 people tell Quim/Peter/etc that it is ridiculous18:46
RST38hAnd point out exactly why18:46
lardman|homeJaffa: well those functions don't look too exciting to me18:46
GeneralAntillesSomebody should prep a review article.18:46
RST38hEven in that case it may still not improve, but anyway18:46
lardman|homeJaffa: perhaps Navicore could be tricked18:46
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RST38hGeneral: Actually, Eldar seems to have done a good job (translation tomorrow), except for his whining18:47
Jaffalardman|home: Indeed, either a new libgpsbt which just maps through to the appropriate real calls; or just a copy of the diablo variants ;-)18:47
lardman|homepairing stuff could be ignored18:48
Jaffalardman|home: I didn't look much further than a dpkg-repack and an unsatisfied link dependency when starting it18:48
lardman|homedoes Navicore read from a gpsd port, or from a dev entry?18:49
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lardman|homejust hope Navicore doesn't have any hardcoded gstreamer elements in it18:50
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lardman|homelike dsp sinks18:50
javispedrolardman: navicore, gst?18:51
javispedrowhy? O.o18:51
lardman|homewell it makes noises, so it must come out somehow18:51
RST38hjavispedro: ok, good news and bad news18:51
RST38hjavispedro: Good news: 420x210 does work18:52
javispedrobad news?18:52
RST38hjavispedro: Bad news: command line options do not work in this binary, and enabling this mode from the menu is near impossible, especially considering that once you resize, you can no longer close the window18:52
javispedroah, that rings a bell, wait.18:53
RST38hjavispedro: Fixing the command line options and inseting the right resolution into .desktop file should do the job18:53
javispedroi did not touch anything cmd line options related18:53
RST38hjavispedro: This leaves a few small problems, like the news items being wider than the screen18:54
RST38hjavis: probably means they have been already broken :)18:54
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javispedrowere they broken in prev binary?18:54
javispedroyou may still have it in /usr/games if you did not replace it18:54
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javispedroand, can you elaborate what you mean by "broken"? -h works well18:55
lcukahhhhh my eyes are hurting18:55
lcukvnc is flickering worse than a crt18:56
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javispedro"If Maemo 5 begin popular, it will be copied. If not popular, not copied." :D19:00
RST38hjavispedro: replaced it19:00
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felipecmaemo is a bunch of open source software, how can you copy that? it's already out there19:02
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lcukfelipec, shhhh19:16
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felipeclcuk: heh, what? did I reveal a secret?19:17
lcukontday entionmay itsway openway ourcesay orway everyoneway19:19
lcukillway opycay itway19:19
* lardman|home digs out his one-time cipher pad19:19
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lardman|homebit random mind you19:22
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GeneralAntillesVDVsx, ping?19:26
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, pong19:26
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, wanna room?19:26
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, sure :)19:28
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* GeneralAntilles edits away. ;)19:28
lardman|homehmm, half the pre-booked rooms are filled, but mostly with only one person19:29
lardman|homewell 50%19:29
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keesjlcuk: About I only heard of it when the the press release was created and I was really puzzeld19:30
lardman|homeare you not there all day long?19:30
lcukkeesj, i was only joking, but its a really cool thing coming from your company19:31
lcukbbiab anyway19:32
keesjI like the idea , I don't understand the whole concept. Would like them to make the libs at least lgpl19:33
keesjv.s. gpl19:33
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* Jaffa has lost his rag on the Mer thread now19:40
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keesjare people using different interfaces to the forum or do you really need to click for every few messages to the next page?19:41
lbtthere's a forum?19:41
GeneralAntilleskeesj, you can change how many messages it displays per page.19:41
GeneralAntillesBut it defaults to 10.19:41
* Jaffa didn't know you could change the count. Interesting19:42
RST38hHmmm...Sodaville released19:42
RST38hMeanwhile: The USA is suffering the most severe ammunition famine in living memory. Gun fanciers, fearing a Democrat crackdown on every American's right to pack heat, are clearing shelves at ammo shops and hoarding cartridges.19:43
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it's so goddamn expensive to go shooting.19:43
GeneralAntilles3 or 4x times the price it 18 months ago.19:43
RST38hGeneral: I tried a couple of times, a few years ago, it was already expensive19:43
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GeneralAntillesYeah, but at least it was doable.19:44
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GeneralAntilles$11.99 for a box of 50 Winchester Whitebox 9mms19:44
GeneralAntilles$10 for the range fee.19:44
GeneralAntillesCall it $50 to go for an evening.19:44
lardman|homeI got to say I'd be in favour of adding a Mer subsection19:45
lardman|homeGeneralAntilles: I can buy 2 rounds of drinks for that, stop complaining19:45
GeneralAntilleslardman|home, that was then.19:45
GeneralAntillesNow you can't even get the whiteboxes.19:45
lardman|homewell I've not often been able to buy ammo down my local pub I must admit19:46
lardman|homethough I reckon I know a few where it might be possible19:46
lardman|homewhere's qwerty12 when you need him...? ;)19:46
Jaffalardman|home: I don't care; but I object to the way the opinions have been expressed.19:46
qwerty12lardman|home: In quiet little Bath? Surely not19:46
Jaffapenguinbait in particular19:46
lardman|homeJaffa: oh yeah of course19:46
JaffaWell, not in particular19:46
GeneralAntillesI was considering going a couple months ago but it'd've been $150 just to shoot off 100 9mms.19:47
* Stskeeps ponders if he should get into that thread or not.19:47
lardman|homeJaffa: he's talking about some people who were removed from the council being in the way of creating the new forum?19:48
lardman|homenot that many of us....19:48
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, it'd probably help.19:48
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aSIMULAtergood evening19:48
ShadowJKWtf, n920 thread. Atleast nokia wont have issues coming up with names19:48
GeneralAntillesSince at this point the opinion seems to be that the "evil" council is trying to get the working man down.19:48
Jaffalardman|home: I *think* he's suggesting that the new council should just make a decision and that the old council is trying to control things whilst they desperately cling to power.19:49
Stskeepsi'm heavily counting on the majority of council being sane.19:49
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lardman|homeoh, it sounded like the old old council members who left were the ones at fault...19:49
JaffaBut I'm not aware of many ppl on the council who've actually posted "no, it's a bad idea". In fact, I don't even remember any "no, it's a bad idea" from anybody. Just that it is like this for a reason, and the decision should be taken sensibly19:50
lardman|homehmm, I might change my mind now :)19:50
JaffaStskeeps: Hopefully, there aren't too many insane names on the new ballot19:50
RST38hShadowJK: Back story: in some twitter/lj post Eldar Murtazin referred to "N920" as a legendary RX-56 (?) device to be released in the summer 201019:50
lardman|homeI wonder if I have those superpowers anyway19:50
RST38hShadowJK: Some t.m.o loony applid Google Translate to that and went nuts19:50
StskeepsNokia Gruntmaster 10.00019:51
RST38hShadowJK: To perpetrate the madness, I can inform you all that Eldar also mentioned 2 non-Nokia Maemo5 devices, currently in dev board form19:51
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StskeepsRST38h: if he thinks wazd is a nokia employee things might start getting confusing19:53
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, Beagle Board, Touchbook? ;)19:55
RST38hSts: he once claimed all people to be in pay of Nokia19:55
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, what, we're not? ;)19:55
RST38hGeneral: My crystal balls say Samsung, but I won't bet on it19:55
GeneralAntillesI'd have a hard time seeing Nokia licensing Maemo.19:55
lardman|homewtf, that 920 thread links to some wishful thinking blog posts19:56
RST38hGeneral: They licensed S60, so why not Maemo? They sell hw after all19:56
arquebuscould I trouble someone to tell me how apps are installed on maemo? is there a package manager or repo?19:56
Myrttithey're certainly not exclusive19:57
lardman|homearquebus: repos w/ package manager or apt-get, etc19:57
arquebusMyrtti: didnt say there were19:57
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arquebuslardman: k thx19:57
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GeneralAntillesarquebus, Application Manager19:58
GeneralAntillesarquebus, it's basically a dumbed-down, mobile-friendly package manager similar to Ubuntu's Add/Remove.19:59
arquebusGeneralAntilles: ok, surprised to hear that, I didnt think commercial apps would work well with a package manager20:00
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GeneralAntillesarquebus, what commercial apps?20:00
GeneralAntillesarquebus, Ovi Store is, apparently, coming at some point, but not yet.20:00
GeneralAntillesIt's unclear how it will be implemented.20:00
arquebusGeneralAntilles: I dont know, I dont have a maemo device, Im just wondering how easy it will be to dev for it20:01
arquebusGeneralAntilles: thx20:02
lbtarquebus: you looking to develop OSS or closed apps?20:02
GeneralAntillesarquebus, not radically different from developing for any normal Linux distro.20:02
lbteither one will work with a package manager20:02
GeneralAntillesarquebus, minus the cross-compilation part.20:02
arquebuslbt- closed apps20:02
arquebuslike games20:02
GeneralAntillesarquebus, those will work fine with the Application Manager but there's no payment system through it and no DRM.20:02
arquebusGeneralAntilles: ok, great20:03
lbtyour main issue is to make sure you don't depend on any GPL stuff then - otherwise, just a package.20:03
lbtno DRM either20:03
SpeedEvilcommercial doesn't have to mean DRM20:03
lbtno, worth mentioning though as there can be an expectation20:04
arquebuslbt- good point, hope maemo does opengl well20:04
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, of course not, but it's certainly a possibility.20:05
GeneralAntillesarquebus, OpenGL ES 2.020:05
arquebusGeneralAntilles: ok20:05
GeneralAntillesSome overview here:
Stskeeps <- will the thread explode?20:06
* lbt wonders how to do OSS 'for pay'20:06
lbtthere should be an option to provide a GPL app that you hold the copyright for through the store20:06
SpeedEvilOSS for pay is just like OSS without pay, but with a 'buy' button.20:07
SpeedEvilAs one option.20:07
Myrttilbt: there's several different models20:07
GeneralAntilleslbt, XChat for Windows.20:07
arquebuslbt- GPL is totally wrong for that, GPL means always in public domain, a BSD or MIT license can be closed and owned privately20:07
SpeedEvilThen you've got open-source - but no permission to modify and distribute20:07
GeneralAntillesSource is free, binaries are charged for.20:07
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lcuklbt, bespoke apps constructed to requirements by interested parties without the skills to do it themselves20:08
GeneralAntillesarquebus, GPL is not public domain.20:08
lbtI want to sell *my* GPL apps20:08
SpeedEvilYou can sell your GPL apps - but you can't stop anyone forking them20:08
lbtso put them on an app store and have people pay to install them20:08
lcuknothing stopping you20:08
SpeedEvilif it's GPL20:08
lbtI know they can be forked20:08
Myrttia) precompiled binaries are commercial, like xchat for windows b) support is commercial, like canonical does with ubuntu etc20:08
arquebusGeneralAntilles: what I mean is that source must always be made open, you cant close source and take ownership of your version20:08
lcukits not the code that matters20:08
lbtbut what I don't want is for the store to assume that GPL is free :)20:08
lcukits the brand recognition from the app20:08
GeneralAntillesarquebus, you're the copyright holder, you can do whatever you want.20:09
lcukand any fork would have to build up its own brand20:09
GeneralAntillesYou can't relicense already distributed code, but you can stop distributing under the GPL.20:09
arquebusGeneralAntilles: anything accept close source20:09
SpeedEvilarquebus: If you're teh author you can20:09
SpeedEvilarquebus: If you write something as GPL, you can also license it however you like.20:09
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lcukif all parties who are involved in its development are in agreement20:10
arquebusSpeedEvil: ok, maybe Im not very knowledgable20:10
SpeedEvilFor example, there may be a pay-for-license which gives the purchasor the right to incorporate the software into non GPL projects20:10
SpeedEvilWhich they couldn't do with the GPL version20:10
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arquebusthx all20:12
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, you're in league with the cabal!20:12
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: next up they start claiming i'm a nokian or something and i want to bring down the community..20:13
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* GeneralAntilles doesn't know when he let -developers get up to 438 unread mails.20:14
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: what? oh my.20:20
keesjit's funny but it's only since today that I am at least able to explain to techniqual people what maemo is. I think tell it's the linux based os that run's Nokia's first open-source based phone finally rings a bell20:21
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Stskeepsyou try and explain Mer to people then20:22
Stskeepsthat's fun. uhm. :P20:22
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, the only people I'd ever try to explain that to would have the background to understand it.20:23
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javispedroah, the issues of oss evangelization.20:24
* Stskeeps tries to find nice places to visit in helsinki20:24
* lcuk facepalms20:25
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, go find a Nokia executive to ask them why they had North America. :P20:25
_berto_Stskeeps: all helsinki is nice20:25
toggles_wStskeeps: want my ex girlfriends digits?20:25
Stskeepstoggles_w: nah, my wife is coming up20:25
MyrttiStskeeps: Suomenlinna20:25
StskeepsMyrtti: provided weather is nice..20:26
MyrttiStskeeps: take the ferry, but be sure to be clothed properly20:26
qwerty12toggles_w: So, has Stskeeps /msg'ed you for them yet? ;)20:26
Myrttithere's a picasso show going on20:26
Stskeepsyeah.. advertisements everywhere20:26
toggles_wqwerty12: lol, no20:26
Stskeepstemple square church looks interesting20:27
Myrttiyeah, I've always wanted to see it20:27
Myrttinever have20:27
* SpeedEvil prefers fishfingers. Less legal problems.20:27
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_berto_i think i liked seurasaari more than suomenlinna20:28
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CorsacDisponibilité: Arrivage prévu Jeudi 22 Octobre20:29
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* SpeedEvil tries to remember what Jeudi is.20:30
_berto_wednesday is mercredi20:32
jhpHi everyone. I'm looking for a new phone for me and my boss, and now I found the Nokia 900 looking very promissing.20:32
_berto_jhp: it is ;)20:32
GeneralAntillesjhp, buy it. ;)20:32
jhpMy boss had 2 questions though, can it do desent Imap with folder subscriptions etc and multiple accounts?20:33
jhpAnd can I use is as a "modem" for my laptop20:33
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_berto_jhp: the mail client suppots imap and multiple accounts20:33
jhpAnd this second part would be great if you could have a phone call and at the same time use the HSDPA connection for internet on your laptop20:34
* javispedro laughs at n920 thread.20:34
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jhp_berto_: and you can also do more that just the inbox?20:35
_berto_jhp: yes20:35
_berto_jhp: all folders20:35
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jhpAnd also subscriptions / leave folder out?20:35
Stskeepsjhp: and if you get upset with the internal mail client, there's alternatives :)20:36
jhpelm is good20:36
_berto_jhp: not completely sure about subscriptions20:36
jhpBut my boss is more a Thunderbird kind of gue20:36
jhpAnd does it do openvpn?20:37
ShadowJKi use openvpn on n800/n81020:37
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jhpGreat. This phone starts to be more and more apealing to me.20:38
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_berto_jhp: it's a debian-based distro, you can install just about any package20:38
GeneralAntillesMac Pro is here!!!!20:38
ShadowJKNot sure if it's available for n900 yet, I'll cross that bridge when I have it in my hands :)20:38
ShadowJKjhp: are you a linux/unix type person?20:38
jhpYes, and so is my boss.20:38
jhpWe run a Linux business.20:39
jhpBut I have a really old phone and he got stuck with some win mobile crapp thing.20:39
javispedroGeneralAntilles: nice! hopefully you got it with an apology signed by the steveness himself.20:39
jhpSo we both want something different20:39
ShadowJKOpen the xterm, type 'sudo gainroot', knock yourself out20:40
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_berto_jhp: they're telling me that the email client doesn't support subscriptions, it gets all folders20:41
jhpAnd can you use it as a Wireless APP for you notebook ?20:41
jhpOr can you plugg a usb cable in for ethernet on usb?20:41
jhpSomething to give internet to my laptop while on the road.20:42
jhpIn that case I can ditch my hsdpa modem20:42
_berto_jhp: not completely sure, but I don't see a reason why you wouldn't be able to do it20:43
jhpIt must have the interface to do it and the kernel must support it.20:43
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Stskeepsethernet over usb you mean, as in kernel usbnet20:43
jhpI mean, the iphone could also do it and they killed it in the last update.20:43
jhpStskeeps: For example20:43
Stskeepsjhp: you're always free to recompile your kernel :)20:43
ShadowJKDunno how the support is out of the box20:43
_berto_well, the kernel is free software, I don't think you'll have problems to enable the ethernet over usb module20:44
_berto_(assuming that it doesn't come with it)20:44
jhpBut noone knows .....20:44
ccookeOh, that's fun20:44
Stskeepsjhp: i think until release a bunch of people are covered by NDA but it would surprise me a lot if g_ether wasn't enable-able.20:44
ShadowJKThe bluez guys are going to post a guide on how to enable serving out internet over bluetooth20:45
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jhpShadowJK: That is an option as well20:45
Stskeepsjhp: you can sudo into being root and probably flash your own kernel.. work your way from there :)20:45
ccookearticle from the UK recommending the n900 because "It's cheap, really cheap."20:45
_berto_yes, I think there's lots of way to create a network interface between the n900 and your laptop20:45
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jhpStskeeps: is an option.20:45
ccooke( )20:45
* SpeedEvil has a slightly different definition of cheap :)20:46
ShadowJKCcooke: well you get it free with subscription in UK20:46
SpeedEvilI suppose in a way they're right.20:46
ccookeShadowJK: I know. It's a truly marvellous state of affairs.20:46
Stskeepsjhp: check out the situation with n800/n810 internet tablets. probably similar solution20:47
ShadowJKAnd when you compare prices that dont require a marriage with an operator, it's 150-500E below iphone 3gs :>20:47
Stskeepsn900 should be bloody flexible :)20:47
ccookeit *is* cheap... I currently pay £30 a month for my wife's phone. She uses it enough to justify that. I've got her an n900 on a 24-month contract for £3520:47
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SpeedEvilStskeeps: I agree. That way the screen won't break if you sit on it.20:47
ccookethat works out at £120 *additional* over two years.20:47
ccookeSo basically, I'm paying £120 for a £500 device. Not going to complain :-)20:48
SpeedEvilccooke: on voda?20:48
SpeedEvildoes the USA have a similar independant phone shop sector?20:48
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SpeedEvilWhere the shops get kickbacks for contracts, and can apply that to any phone20:49
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SpeedEvil(if they choose to)20:49
ccookeSpeedEvil: What I've seen makes me doubt it. The market in the US seems rather constrained20:49
toggles_wthere is one here, sites like wirefly.com20:50
ccookeI mean, in the UK the biggest high street names are the independant phone shops - carphone warehouse, phones4u are at least as recognised as the networks - CPW more so20:50
SpeedEvilWhat pisses me off abou thte UK market is that you can't take the above contract with SIM only.20:50
ccookeIIRC someone said that CPW would be subsidising the n900, too20:50
SpeedEvilWell - you can - but it's the same price as with a hundred quiddish phone20:50
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Myrttisomethings I'm going to miss from Finland then in UK20:51
ccookeMyrtti: oh?20:51
SpeedEvilThe mobile phone market is a lot less screwed now than it was a few years back.20:51
SpeedEvil(in the UK)20:51
ccookeSpeedEvil: yes20:51
Myrttithere's exactly one phone that you can't get from Finland without a contract20:51
* SpeedEvil wonders if it has a relation to fruit.20:52
Myrttiand all contracts and all simcards work with all phones20:52
javispedroMyrtti: a phone with an apple logo somewhere? ;)20:52
Myrttijavispedro: bingo20:52
_berto_Myrtti: is it locked to a single carrier ?20:53
ccookeIf they could, Apple would make the iphone without a SIM card at all :-)20:53
_berto_ccooke: they did, it's called iPod Touch20:54
jaskaits strange.. considering its available unlocked elsewhere20:54
Myrtti_berto_: I doubt any of the phones in finland are *really* locked to a sim and a sim carrier20:54
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SpeedEvilWhat happened with the screwing up unlocked legally iphone things on update/20:54
lcuki thought capacitive screens had problems in cold weather20:54
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_berto_Myrtti: I mean, in Spain you can only get an iPhone from Telefonica, and I think it's the same in the US with AT&T20:54
lcukand in detailed high precision environments20:54
SpeedEvilUK = O220:54
_berto_O2 is Telefonica I think20:55
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ccookelcuk: and when wet20:55
Myrtti_berto_: yeah, only one carrier that have it - but I don't know if the device has actual software restrictions that stop it working with any other sim/network than theirs20:55
lcukmmm im not sure i would ever like to test that one20:55
lcuktho ive seen nokia phone doofer of guy swimming then taking a call20:55
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ccookelcuk: no, I mean if your fingers are wet20:56
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lcukyou cant use it?20:56
_berto_Myrtti: I say that because in some countries you can't sell it locked to a single carrier, all of them must be able to offer it20:56
dragornMyrtti: apple has made significant efforts to lock it to a single carrier, both in the baseband and in the OS layer20:56
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jaskayeah.. locked phones were illegal here before, sadly someone managed to lobby it through20:56
ccookelcuk: capacitive screens are unreliable when even slightly damp20:56
Myrtti*shrug* I'm a Nokia fangirl, don't know, don't care20:57
ShadowJKMyrtti: yeah it's locked in .fi, but if you pay off the full price of it, sonera must legally unlock it for you20:57
* lcuk smiles20:57
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MyrttiI had a Samsung phone for about a year once, hated it quite a lot20:57
ccookelcuk: it's a little annoying on my current HTC Magic.20:58
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* lardman|home realises he's given away his last old Nokia charger and now needs one for his other sim card20:58
dragornShadowJK: unfortunately apple has taking to blocking stuff in the OS if it's a non-authorized network, even on factory unlocked phones20:58
lcukdragorn, good!20:59
_berto_well, you can't even use it without iTunes ...20:59
javispedrodragorn: what??20:59
jaskaitunes.. eww20:59
dragornjavispedro: looking for the article.  it started with blocking push notifications, there's something new that they did recently20:59
javispedroi've understimated the iphone evilness again, seems.21:00
lcukdragorn, maybe thats not conspiracy and just crapinterconnects ;)21:00
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lcukjavispedro, of course you have - try to change the on device media player ;)21:00
javispedroeasy. meld the phone and replace it with a sony walkman.21:01
dragornjavispedro: oh right, tethering21:01
dragornjavispedro: they've disabled tethering on non-authorized networks, even on legitimately unlocked phones21:01
dragornjavispedro: to prevent you from moving your data plan21:01
dragorn(well, if you use pc tethering, anyhow)21:01
javispedrothat's a topic it has always surprised me.21:02
* lcuk remembers to file a bug actually21:02
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javispedroso, even my years old phone allows you to use it as serial modem.21:02
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_berto_for me the fact alone that it requires itunes is enough to stop me from even considering it21:02
javispedrothen the word "tethering" started to appear all over the place and insteand of meaning "more connectivity options" meant less.21:03
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* Myrtti is too geeky to have a iphone21:03
* lcuk is too old to have an iphone21:03
lcuki learnt how to use a pencil21:04
* javispedro is too por to have an iphone21:04
lcukand havent stopped since21:04
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lcuklbt, your fan assisted mer project21:05
_berto_i had the chance to try an ipod touch a year or two ago and I was shocked when I realized that I had to plug it to a computer with iTunes, otherwise it was just a brick21:05
lcukhows it comin on21:05
SpeedEvil_berto_: Indeed - broken.21:06
Myrttiitunes doesn't install into wine21:06
lcukcant you get the store to do that for you when you buy it, and then never use it again21:06
_berto_I agree that most people don't care21:06
Myrttican't be arsed to put up a vm for it21:06
lcukMyrtti, drink more wine then21:06
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lardman|home_berto_: you can use it wirelessly though, download stuff from iTunes can't you?21:07
_berto_but well, I'm a happy linux user for more than 10 years and it's amazing that in 2009 we have to see this kind of things21:07
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_berto_lardman|home: it was new, it hadn't been booted before21:08
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_berto_it doesn't even boot for the first time if you don't have itunes21:08
javispedrolol. that total blenders consts $399.9521:08
javispedros/blenders consts/blender costs/21:08
lardman|home_berto_: really, oh well21:08
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lardman|homeanyone know if the N800 used a different VIDEO_SRC to the N810?21:10
lardman|homei.e. gconfv4l2src as opposed to v4l2src?21:11
lardman|homeI get errors trying to create the former21:11
lardman|homeGStreamer obviously ;)21:11
X-Fadelardman|home: There is a video code example in the docs.21:11
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X-Fadelardman|home: diablo docs that is.21:12
lardman|homeyeah, seems to use plain v4l2src, but I want the src to flip the video for me21:12
lardman|homeif poss21:12
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lardman|homeIn Python a gconfv4l2src works, just not in C21:12
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lardman|homeperhaps I need to install something else on my N80021:14
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Captain_PicardStar Trek21:16
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lardman|homehmm working, typo21:26
lardman|homeI've set my wife to work to correct that error ;)21:31
lardman|homeassuming I now survive to eat it21:32
jeremiahFry_up_some_lard_woman!() || ENOBACON21:32
lcukyou will survive eating, its whether its digestable without toxins thats the issue21:32
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jeremiahtoxins schmoxins21:32
lcukyou forgot to use sudo21:32
lardman|homewell I've not moved back to C code21:34
lardman|homefar more lines than Python21:34
jeremiahMy pseudo code was perl anyway. :P21:34
lardman|homebut starts up quickly which is good21:34
lardman|homejeremiah: ah no, this is not directly related21:34
lcukis python startup time dependent on parsing the includes21:34
lcukand what can be done21:35
lardman|homeyeah, only import some things?21:35
lcukno, importing still needs to parse all the files21:35
lcukeven if you only do select things within a file21:35
lcuki mean, can you do same sort of precompiled headers thing you can use with normal c++ type compilation21:36
lcukto just load a binary blob21:36
lcukslower to start first run21:36
lcukbut after that your subset is stored pre-parsed21:36
lardman|homeno idea21:37
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lcukme neither - but loading a single header generated by ctypes for liqbase was horrid21:37
lcukand that only had 10 lines of code21:37
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lardman|homeSWIG might be better then, generates a py class beforehand21:38
lardman|homehow can I get xvideosink to drop frames, set the sync property to fasle?21:39
lardman|homefalse even21:39
lardman|homexvimagesink also21:40
qwerty12_N810Set it to ture21:40
lcukim not sure how it drops frames tbh21:40
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lardman|homeqwerty12_N810: true?21:40
lardman|homethen it stays in sync with the pipeline?21:40
lcukctypes produced a .py file too21:40
qwerty12_N810lardman|home: Dunno, I was taking the piss21:40
lardman|homeuseful :p21:41
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pupnik_lardman|home: yo21:41
lardman|homehi pupnik_21:41
pupnik_do you know any mp3 or ogg players that allow variation of playback rate (before rendering to pcm)"?21:41
pupnik_looking at mpg321 atm21:41
Myrttipupnik_: hold on, I found one in ubuntu21:42
lardman|homepupnik_: non sorry, need pitch correction then21:42
pupnik_here's one way to think about it21:42
Myrttiyatm - Command line audio file player with time stretching capabilities21:42
pupnik_you lie to the codec and say "render to 96khz21:42
pupnik_wait no forget that :)21:42
* lcuk ponders diving into cpython and doing some digging21:42
pupnik_Myrtti: that rules21:43
MyrttiI found that looking for an audiobook player :-/21:43
lardman|homelcuk: swig is quite good21:43
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lcuklardman, i have a final .py file21:43
Myrttithe *nonexistent* audiobook player21:43
* GeneralAntilles cackles evilly.21:43
lcukits the startup time that bothers me for now21:43
lardman|homepupnik_: must be a gstreamer element for that somewhere21:43
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: macbook pro or gadget delivery day?21:43
GeneralAntilles_Mac_ Pro21:44
GeneralAntillesFedEx and UPS came one after another.21:44
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pupnik_awesome awesome awesome awesome Myrtti21:44
GeneralAntillesFedEx with the computer (which I totally wasn't expecting)21:44
* pupnik_ dances21:44
GeneralAntillesand UPS with all of the accessories.21:44
pupnik_this is the most awesomest thing - interactive speed21:44
pupnik_choose-your-bpm, gentlemen!21:44
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lcukspin device round head and haaaavvvvvveeeeeeeeeeee iiiiiiittttttttttt mess up21:45
pupnik_haha listening to rap at 1y521:45
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qwerty12_N810Eww, thanks, jeremiah, for ruining my otherwise good day21:46
Myrttiit's not even PINK.21:46
Myrttisucks arse21:46
jeremiahOoops. Sorry Myrtti21:47
Myrttinp, I chose to have pink in my hilights21:47
pupnik_i love making speakers sound drunk21:48
RST38hjeremiah: What is it? A soapbox?21:48
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jeremiahA chunk O plastic21:49
lardman|homehmm, response is still too slow21:49
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* lardman|home goes to eat that bacon, amongst other things21:51
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lcukok with all the stuff about n900 usb modes - i saw a think on the nokia pushn900 blog about making robots.
lcuksomehow, the thought of making a killer robot control mechanism depend on bluetooth makes me somewhat queezy (and tingly with mad scientist laugh)21:54
lcukshould a killer robot droid be autonomous, or a simple remote controlled toy?21:56
Firebirdautonomous RC heli controller :o21:56
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lcukFirebird, dont tell lbt, he is playing with making a cpu fan whirr21:56
lcukskynet will be upon us21:56
lcukFirebird, you would need a larger unit to carry n90021:57
Firebirdlarger unit?21:57
lcukwould need ~18inch plus blades most likely21:57
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Firebirddoes the thing weigh like 20 pounds?21:57
lcukmy indoor heli has trouble carrying any payload i try21:57
Firebirdoh, I have a 450 sized heli21:58
gabrielhi! i need a little help21:58
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lcukmind you, finding enough packing tape to hold the cat still has its own problems21:58
Firebirdlcuk, ever seen a hobby grade heli?
lcukgabriel, oh noes, whats up21:58
lcukyeah - an outdoor model21:58
lcukwhats the rotor span21:59
Firebirdit can lift 10lbs and chop your hand off, I'm sure it can handle the N90021:59
gabrieli need a short answer, is possible compile a java 1.6 version for armv5 ?21:59
Firebirdlcuk, ~650mm?21:59
lcukwhich is how much in inches..21:59
lcukwhich is a bit bigger than my guess of ~18inches22:00
Firebirdthe N900 would be perfect with its accelerometers.. and maybe some external sensors22:00
lcukwould be wicked and practical22:00
lcukX-Fade, is a heli guy too :)22:00
Firebirddon't want to trash my heli testing though :/22:00
lcukget it right first time then22:01
lcukgabriel, unsure22:01
lcukjava isnt something i have dived into22:01
RST38hit's hot and opaque22:02
gabrielwhell, a small context... i have a cross-compile environment configured (scratchbox armv5) and i download a recent official release of sun to armv5, when i tried to exec it, this shows a error with library22:03
lcukFirebird, besides, if you do it from a controller feedback loop - you could most likely work it using handheld and simulator22:03
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lcukto see how it responds22:03
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Lies, you actually, in secret, worship it like you do the Tentacled One22:03
Firebirdwell, then what good would the acceleromets be22:04
Firebirdlcuk, like the n900 controling the transmitter?22:04
lcukits one option for first generation22:04
lcukrather than direct servo control22:04
keesjgabriel: that is already pretty good news I would say , what is the output of "ldd java"22:04
Firebirdn900 controling an aurdino board would be neat22:05
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keesjgabriel: Might be what you are looking for ( I don't know if it's 1.6) and I did not follow upon what sun has been up-to in the last years22:06
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gabrielsorry :P22:07
keesjgabriel: Might be what you are looking for ( I don't know if it's 1.6) and I did not follow upon what sun has been up-to in the last years22:07
lcukFirebird, the aurdino is useful indeed, just thinking of your concerns about failure22:08
Firebirdfly to 50' and if it fails go to manual control would/should work for failure22:09
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RST38hqwerty: Yes, the more Java programmers, the more food for the Tentacled One.22:10
gabrielthis is the output of ldd22:11
lcukFirebird, but if you have replaced the control mechanism with one from arduino that would be more difficult22:11
qwerty12_N810RST38h: But he's already so big... :/22:12
lcukone answer22:12
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Firebirdparachute? into the blades?22:12
RST38hqwerty: He has got transcedental volume.22:13
lcukgood point lol22:13
lcukbig matress22:13
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lcuki think we should stick with landborne control mechanisms22:13
gabrielkeesj, i'm downloading the package...(crossing fingers)22:13
lcuklearn to drive before we fly lol22:13
lcukmini version of the darpa grand challenge22:14
lcukdrive around nokia store without bumping into legs22:14
lcukall the while capturing some cgreat shots with the camera22:15
lcukdo you think they will let us use laser range finders22:15
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Firebirdsure... that would be neat, darpa grand challenge cars in full scale controlled by a phone-tablet22:16
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* lcuk just surfed down the stairs :S22:19
lcuki slipped and thought for sure i was gonna die22:20
Stskeepsbetter than getting killed in a nokia door22:20
lcukbut somehow i stayed on my feet and thudded down each one22:20
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lcuki landed at the bottom and luke laughed22:20
lcuki dont think i could do that again if i ever wanted to try22:21
MyrttiStskeeps: hehe22:21
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RST38hSts: Not killed, slowly DISMEMBERED. And that Nokia door has not finished with him yet.22:22
SpeedEvilFirebird: See James Bond.22:22
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AllvaroHello ;)22:22
* Firebird wonders why he is seeing James Bond22:23
* lcuk spits out milk22:23
lcukRST38h, dont22:23
RST38hmoo, that is22:23
lcukthat door must have its own scp22:23
AllvaroAny1 want invitatnion to lockerz xd? i have 15 invitations22:24
RST38hof course there is an scp for the door22:24
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jaskaovi = door.. coincidence?22:24
* lcuk shows you all the finger :P22:25
* Firebird shows lcuk a finger22:25
lcukFirebird, :) you dont actually know what we are talking about do you lol22:26
Firebirdnope :P22:26
* qwerty12_N810 does, but he shows lcuk his middle finger for the fuck of it22:27
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snuxollwow, when did #maemo become my high school locker room?22:27
Myrttiohai snuxoll22:27
Stskeepssnuxoll: time travel22:28
lcukfirebird, pick a level - 1,2,3   increasing levels of blood22:28
snuxollyo Myrtti22:28
Myrttisnuxoll: welcome to reality22:28
Firebirdlcuk, 3?22:28
wazdsnuxoll: you have a "kick me" sticker on your back :D22:28
snuxollMyrtti: this is reality?  I want my money back22:28
snuxollwazd: wouldn't be the first time22:28
Myrttisnuxoll: yeah, sadly it is22:28
* snuxoll gives Myrtti a cupcake with pink frosting to compensate for a dull reality22:29
Myrttithe times I've winced at the discussion... *sigh*22:29
lcukbloody picture - i had the end pushed back over tho
Myrtti#maemo - now with more blood and gore22:30
lcuklol sorry Myrtti22:30
lcukblame nokia22:30
lcukthey started it22:30
Myrttino worries, I'm planning to dig a pit in front of the door22:30
Myrttitrap pit22:30
snuxollNokia doesn't start fights, that's Mann Co's job22:30
Firebirdlcuk, doing a little too much sketching on the tablet?22:31
* SpeedEvil wishes he'd taken a picture of his finger injury.22:31
* snuxoll is glad SpeedEvil didn't22:31
SpeedEvilI made a large diameter router bit for my dremel.22:31
Myrttinokia doesn't start fights, they give that task to subcontr^Wcommunity members22:31
SpeedEvilIt sliced up my finger good!22:31
lcukyeah firebird22:31
lcukouch SpeedEvil22:31
snuxollSpeedEvil: my sister did something not too dissimilar, but with a handheld blender/mixer22:32
snuxollSpeedEvil: most enjoyable trip I've ever had to the ER22:32
Firebirdonly time I've hurt my finger was when I drilled right through it after the drill bit snapped22:32
snuxollgrr, I can't seem to get my glasses clean22:32
lcukpour boiling water over em and cut through the grease :P22:33
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* lcuk is freezing22:34
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lcukwhich nokia mobile computers are waterproof22:34
* Myrtti has her furry slippers22:34
lcukbtw, screen on n900 seems v durable22:35
lcukits been in my pocket with my keys :O22:35
Firebirdcurious, what does the N900 stylus look like?22:35
* snuxoll has a feeling he'll be waiting for the N900 US variant for a very long time22:35
Firebirdthe N810 one was/looked really cheap22:36
MyrttiFirebird: lolololol22:36
lcukFirebird, a beachball22:36
Firebirdhurray >_>22:36
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ShadowJKI thought the N810 stylus was elegant simple22:36
snuxolllcuk: is it a spinning beachball?22:36
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snuxolllcuk: because I already have plenty of those22:36
Myrttiif n810 is anything like the N800 one, it's about twice the level of professional than 770's stylus22:36
lbtFirebird: my maemo controlled heli took off last night22:36
lcukcuriously after you said that i just whipped out both22:36
Firebirdthe N800 stylus was nice however, whth its nice metalic part on the end22:36
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qwerty12_N810Honestly, the N900 doesn't need a stylus22:37
lcukfor normal use i agree qwerty22:37
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qwerty12_N810And I'm an avid stylus-freak when it comes to the N8X022:37
lbtshame it's not as advanced as you may hope :)22:37
lcukbut for writing its essential22:37
MyrttiI have my long fingernails, I don't need a stylus in any case :-D22:37
Firebirdlbt, mmhmm22:37
lcukMyrtti, how do you write22:37
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Myrttilcuk: thumbnails22:38
Firebird , hmm, looks like a larger version of the N810 stylus22:38
lcukits about 5mm longer22:38
qwerty12_N810lcuk: I don't write for shit; my handwriting is God-awful :)22:38
snuxollFirebird: I could go for that22:38
Myrttithat looks like 770 stylus22:38
lcuktho that stylus fits in n810 slot22:38
snuxollFirebird: though that is a f'ewge stylus22:38
lbtused that control board DAC to manage the throttle pot on the R/c unit22:38
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Firebirdah, nice lbt22:39
wazd10 minutes of bounce22:39
Firebirda full metal stylus would be nice22:39
wazdfor loosers without device :D22:39
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Firebirdwoa, that almost blew up my sub-woofer22:39
Myrttilcuk: one of the reasons I've never warmed to N810, I'm really fast with two thumbs with long nails on the vkb22:40
SpeedEvilI made a nice one out of a couple of sections of an antenna, filled with lead.22:40
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lcukMyrtti, thats not writing tho22:40
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lcukthats typing and i agree22:40
Myrttilcuk: I don't really write anything - I might draw, or annotate knitting pattern pdf22:40
* lcuk cavepaints22:41
Myrttibut my nails are long enough to replace the stylus in any case22:41
lcukmy finger also now contains an implanted stylus - or it wouldv if the doctor had let me22:41
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lcukjamiebennet has robosapien22:44
lcukwe need to make an n900 pusher robot!22:44
lcukto defeat the scum22:44
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lcuklbt, can you get your flying bot created in time lol22:46
lbtprobably not22:46
keesjpusher bot wars FTW22:46
lcukkeesj, it would be great to have a reason lol22:47
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lcukawww shucks lbt22:47
RST38hMicrosoft Opening Windows Cafe In Paris (Will they pour C# instead of java there?)22:47
* lcuk increases miliatry spending to include beer and cheese22:48
lbtdid you see the donuts with bacon at the kernel conference lcuk22:48
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lcuko_O no22:49
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lcukhey - would actually be really really cool to organise robot wars - nokia vs apple vs microsoft22:50
lcuki suppose we need a real robot first22:52
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ShadowJKRobot wars was kinda fun until those guys invented hypnodisc and all the rules started coming22:52
lcukyeah, it was kinda impressive in its destructiveness22:53
lcukchaos 2 was brutal too22:54
Myrttikiller robots with cheesecake22:54
Myrttisince when has flickr logo had yahoo on it too22:56
Myrttior on flickr22:56
lcukbbl bath22:56
lcukwith rubber duck22:56
MyrttiI don't think I'm allowed baths yet :-(22:56
qwerty12_N810The rubber duck will be deflated by the time lcuk is done with it22:56
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lardman|fedmmmm bacon23:01
* RST38h never understood why nobody used mass destruction weapons on Robot Wars23:01
javispedrolardman: I was expecting to see "lcuk" at the right of that bacon reference. what a surprise when I read "lardman" instead ;)23:01
javispedrooh, btw, hi :)23:02
RST38hA smallish thermobaric explosion - and you instantly win23:02
javispedrowhy smallish?23:02
RST38hbecause largish will destroy the video evidence23:02
ShadowJKI guess projectile weapons are forbidden too23:03
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* javispedro remembers that BOFH story about a robot wars tournament were the winner robot was designed the search & destroy the humans instead of the robots23:03
RST38halso the audience, the anchor, and yourself23:03
lardman|fedhey javispedro23:03
SpeedEvilI looked at the UK rules, and could find nothing precluding (at the time) a rocket engine to make your robot hover.23:04
SpeedEvilHover over your opponent - melting them.23:04
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lardman|fedhmm, don't these things weigh at least 100kg?23:04
ShadowJKwhat about flamethrowers?23:05
lardman|fednot sure they are allowed, would be cool though23:05
ShadowJKI suspect the added weight limitations at some point?23:05
lardman|fedor rather quite toasty, for the audience too23:05
ShadowJK(and the house robots can ignore them)23:05
SpeedEvillardman: no - rocket engines can be whatever size you make them.23:05
lardman|fedShadowJK: I meant the robot, you need quite a bit of thrust to lift that23:05
ShadowJKdepends how long you want to lift it for :)23:06
lardman|fedsorry wrong autocomplete23:06
ShadowJKCarmack's early rocket engines looked tiny compared to what they were lifting23:06
lardman|fedyeah true23:06
ShadowJKI liked his hydrogen peroxide stuff, although fuel availability is a problem :)23:07
SpeedEvilGenerally for sea-level use you want 14PSI or so at the exhaust - so 10 square inches for 140lb, ...23:07
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: I found a source willing to ship me pallets of 95%23:07
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, awesome :-)23:07
SpeedEvilIIRC ~1000e for 400l of 95%23:07
ShadowJKWhat was it that carmack wanted, 95% or 99%? and what was it that he then tried to use?23:07
lardman|fed95% what?23:07
* GeneralAntilles is failing to saturate 8 cores.23:07
lardman|fedGeneralAntilles: try harder!23:08
lardman|fed8 cores, show off!23:08
javispedrono doubt the RDF at work23:08
GeneralAntilles16 virtual. :P23:08
javispedrothe 8 cores will always be enough right until the 16 cores Mac Pro shows up23:08
GeneralAntillesWell, 12 core.23:09
GeneralAntillesWhich should be middle of next year.23:09
javispedroat which point suddenly 8 cores will feel like a 12-digit calculator23:09
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GeneralAntillesApple starts disabling them remotely.23:09
RST38h8 cores should feel like an 8-digit calculator shouldn't they?23:10
javispedrodamn washing machines23:11
javispedrooh i hate hardware23:11
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ShadowJKNow that's a creative use of a rocket ship23:11
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FirebirdGeneralAntilles, md5sum every file on your harddrive at the same time23:12
RST38hjavis: do you hate hardware like I hate hardware, after finding out that certain sequences of opcodes corrupt TV encoder output? =)23:12
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javispedrono. I hate hardware that can wet you.23:12
javispedrospecially when it does so.23:12
lardman|fedhmm, will taste funky I bet, or is it an O2 H2 rocket?23:12
RST38hah THAT hardware23:12
lardman|fedprobably is from the exhaust23:13
ShadowJKi haven't followed them for ages, and they're always changing engine tech and fuels..23:13
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lardman|fednice anyway :)23:14
lardman|fedright, GStreamer gurus, where are you all?23:14
javispedrolardman: oh, I once wrote a gstreamer demuxer, do I qualify? ;)23:15
lardman|fedyes, you win!23:15
lardman|fedso..... I have a fakesink and an xvimagesink, and a pretty tight barcode decoder loop, I'd like my xvimagesink to be less laggy23:15
lardman|fedbarcode data comes from the handoff of the fakesink23:15
lardman|fedseparate queues used for each sink, and the decoder runs in the handoff callback fn23:16
javispedro laggy as in?23:17
javispedrojust slow23:17
lardman|fedvariable, but perhaps 1 frame every few seconds23:17
lardman|fedso yes, slow23:17
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javispedroer... dunno.23:18
lardman|fedinterestingly, when I start up the pipeline, I get the YUV data output in the display window23:18
lardman|fedthis lasts a few frames, then I get full screen23:18
javispedroi'd say wrong timestamp in gstbuffer, but then I don't know how fakesink works23:19
lardman|fedwhen I say YUV, I mean two small images and one large one at the bottom23:19
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lardman|fedI've just disabled datamatrix decoding, now runs ok with sync turned off23:19
lardman|fedwill have to try running the datamatrix decoding in a separate thread and see if that helps at all23:19
javispedroah, so you're sure its a output thing?23:20
lardman|fedthe strange display?23:20
lardman|fedyeah, just happens for a couple of frames though23:20
lcuk2 small then one large23:20
lcukmmm inverted?23:20
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lardman|fedall in one image23:20
lardman|fedyeah inverted, but this is an N800 so that's normal23:20
lardman|fedthough not for the output of course23:20
lardman|fedhmm, let me try23:21
ShadowJKlardman|fed, I think it's an alcohol engine23:21
ShadowJKsince they say nasa wanted them to make one that runs on methane, and they tried feeding methane to their alcohol engine with a few "tweaks", and that didn't work out23:22
javispedroi do not understand what you're doing, do you have two pipelines?23:22
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javispedro(v4l ! fakesink) - - - - - > bar code decoding  - - - - - > (src ! xvimagesink) ?23:22
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lardman|fedjavispedro: one pipeline with a tee23:23
lardman|fedsplits to the xvimagesink and the fakesink23:23
javispedroah, I see.23:23
lardman|fedright I have a photo, but have to go chuck the bins out, give me 523:23
SpeedEvilIf you have no split - is it nice and fast?23:23
coldbootIn our build system, for arm builds, we need to force scratchbox to use Python 2.5.1. But the stupid scratchbox /scratchbox/tools/bin/python overrides anything you do, unless you move it out of the way. What's the best way to force SCons to use /usr/bin/python?23:24
javispedrotwo things. first one is that /scratchbox/tools/bin/python is in path. second is export SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE="/usr/bin/python"23:25
coldbootjavispedro: So I have to do both, remove it from the path and set a redirect ignore?23:25
javispedroyes, both23:25
coldbootOkay thanks.23:25
coldbootIs there an absolute way to find where scratchbox has been installed?23:26
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konttori__new version of theme maker in
* Stskeeps instantly downloads23:30
Stskeepsbig improvements?23:30
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lardman|fedShadowJK: nothing wrong with food cooked in alcohol of course ;)23:38
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bobbydcan anyone confiirm that the n900 supports Activesync?23:38
bobbydI can see on the official page that it mentions Exchange, but it's not clear if it supports push email and calendar updates over the air23:39
lardman|fedimage here:
lardman|fedjust looks plain broken now I look harder at it23:41
lardman|fedperhaps something to do with the GStreamer caps negotiation23:41
mfinklein an effort to maximize screen space, we are trying to turn off the autocompletion widget used on n81023:41
mfinklelooks like I can pass something to GConf23:41
mfinkle /apps/osso/inputmethod/hildon-im-languages/en_GB/word-completion23:41
lardman|fedthere's a control panel setting iirc23:42
mfinklebut I want to do it for all languages23:42
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lardman|fedhave been summoned, back later23:42
mfinklelardman|fed: we only want to disable it for our app, not the entire device23:42
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qwerty12_N810Now it's lardman's turn to make the bacon ;)23:42
lardman|afkmfinkle: ah, no idea then, good luck23:42
lardman|afkqwerty12_N810: that has a double entendre you know ;)23:43
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javispedromfinkle: ctrl+space hides/shows it23:43
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: how do you make things start with lowercase in fields? wasnt there a option?23:43
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: yeah, bringing up the API reference23:44
javispedromfinkle: shift+space actually :P23:44
mfinklejavispedro: that's a good fallback for the end user23:44
ShadowJKlardman, scary, they bolted one of carmack's engine to an airplane and they found people who'd fly it23:45
javispedroStability Level: Unstable23:45
ShadowJK (rocket racer)23:47
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mfinkleqwerty12_N810: hmm, I was looking at that to disable the autocap feature too23:47
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qwerty12_N810I haven't used it, personally, to disable anything other than auto-caps but using it to unset HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_DICTIONARY may work...23:49
mau_mexHi there , This is Mauricio from Mexico23:49
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mau_mexI am Newbie on linux and i`m having a problem installing scratchbox,23:51
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mau_mexcan some one confirm this:23:52
mau_mexmau@mau:~> /home/mau//Documents/ -u mau23:52
mau_mexis correct?23:52
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wazdjavispedro: aw the shot from n900 with DrNokSnes icon in it :D23:54
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javispedrowazd: :D23:54
wazds /aw/saw/23:54
javispedrowazd: seen ?23:54
wazdjavispedro: nope, looks awesome :)23:54
tuukkahmau_mex, you may need to add bash to the front of that line23:55
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lbtJaffa: Mer can't have it's own section in TMO until #mer gets karma23:59
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