IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-09-22

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mavhc Theorarm is an Ogg Theora/Vorbis decoding library optimised for use on ARM processors.00:25
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lardmanmavhc: you should ping derf and kulve00:49
derfI am well aware of theoraarm.00:49
derfWhy do you think Robin_Watts (the author) was in here asking questions earlier?00:49
lardmanI wasn't here, sorry00:49
* lardman goes back to his Python00:51
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lcukholy shit, ive got a red triangle on my device!00:54
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lcukon the screen00:54
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lardmansounds terminal00:54
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lcukyeah but i erupted in smiles00:55
javispedrolmaorofl :)00:55
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lcukits javispedro's test app00:55
lcukwe sussed how to get it running00:55
javispedroogles2 :)00:55
lcukwell, he did00:55
lardmangood good00:56
javispedroanother playground lol :)00:56
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lcukjavispedro, well done! excellent hack :D00:59
javispedrohaha, it was just a matter of finally reading the book lol .)00:59
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lcukfrom what i can gather, that is the first community hardware 3d accelerated code though :)01:00
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lcukthat triangle remains still at full speed!01:01
javispedroit refreshes at max 1 fps lol :)01:01
lardmanhow did you break the acceleration hw away from the desktop?01:01
javispedrono need for that unless you want raw performance01:02
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javispedroand the bounce game is composited,01:03
lcuklardman, it appears to be composited still01:03
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javispedroso I guess there's "enough" performance even while composited.01:04
lcuki dunno01:05
lcukgimme a rotating triangle and ill tell you01:05
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Firebird:o, any plans to port SDL-1.3 with OGLES, javispedro ?01:26
javispedroFirebird: sure. if both can coexist in system.01:26
Firebirdhave you guys tried running just plain GL code? or does that not work even though there's a libGL provided in the sdk01:28
javispedro(both 1.2 which the base image ships with and 1.3)01:28
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javispedroFirebird: on SDK, libGL is provided because clutter uses it.01:28
lardmanmy brain hurts01:29
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* lcuk gets lardman a glass of wine01:31
* GeneralAntilles hits lardman with a stick.01:31
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* javispedro falls asleep :)01:31
lardmanmmm wine would be good01:31
lardmanor just understanding how isp_user functions are called, and where from01:32
lcukwhats that for01:32
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lardmanit appears to do white balance, auto focus, etc01:32
lcukjavispedro, sleep well.01:32
lcuktoday, a triangle.  tomorrow, the wo ---  errr maybe not yet, maybe a cube01:33
javispedrota lcuk for the testing :)01:33
lardmanGeneralAntilles: not so keen on the stick mind you :p01:33
lardmanlcuk: sphere is only a small step up01:33
lcukanything is possible now theres a triangle01:34
javispedrowell, i still need to see textures01:34
lardmanI imagine there's even a sphere with a world map rendered onto it01:34
javispedrothat will come after ogles 101:34
lcukgood solid foundations :)01:34
javispedrowell, gnite folks :)01:35
lardmannight javispedro01:35
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* lardman wonders what a paxel is01:35
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SpeedEvilIt's like a pixel, but made of vegetable fat.01:37
GeneralAntillesIt's pixel spelled with an a.01:37
lardmannot quite01:38
lardmanor perhaps no-one spell checked his presentation :)01:39
lardmanhmm, my nuts taste like plastic01:39
lardmanwalnuts that is01:39
sp3000damnit, why are the pkg descriptions so weird :)01:39
* sp3000 finds a lib thing in user/* that is very jsefull01:39
sp3000also, a game for two players involving.01:40
Firebirdinvolving (sic)?01:40
lcuklardman, you owe me a new keyboard01:40
sp3000no " ... involving." (sic)01:40
lcukand almost a new n90001:40
sp3000well, not the ...01:41
Firebirdshouldn't it be "involving two players"01:41
lardmanlcuk: spilled your wine?01:41
lcukyou explaining what your nuts taste like01:42
lardmangot to share01:42
lcuki was mid swig01:42
sp3000nah, the short desc is just like n first words of the long desc with a .01:42
lardmansore nose then too?01:42
lcukheh yeah01:42
sp3000the long desc sentence makes more sense :)01:42
lardmanI was in a bar a few years back and there were some chaps snorting whiskey01:42
lcukdid you see this simon:
lardmanmust sting01:42
lardmanyes :)01:43
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* lcuk enjoyed writing it01:43
lardmanvery inspirational :)01:44
lcukstill doesnt get me any money mind you \o/01:45
lcuki have yet to work out that part01:45
lardmanone step at a time!01:45
sp3000short description. longer description.01:46
* lcuk nods01:46
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lardmanhmm, camera can shoot in sepia can it?01:55
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GeneralAntillesThe .deb description field is really ugly.01:55
GeneralAntillesHard-wrapped text. Ugh.01:55
GeneralAntillesIt needs to be prettified either at the package or package manager level.01:55
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sp3000"Those starting with a single space are part of a paragraph. Successive lines of this form will be word-wrapped when displayed. The leading space will usually be stripped off."01:56
sp3000are you saying app manager violates debian policy in its ui ;)01:57
GeneralAntillessp3000, new for Fremantle?01:57
GeneralAntillesDiablo just displayed whatever horrifying shit the maintainer put in there.01:57
sp3000yeah, well, that's just a debian policy quote01:58
lcuklardman, dunno01:58
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lcukbut seens like one of the standard test filters that ends up on users cameras01:58
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lardmanI think it's an effect provided by the Ti module01:58
SpeedEvilThe 5mp is autofocus or fixed focus?01:58
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lcukim not sure if theres manual01:59
lardmanthere's manual in the kernel01:59
lcuknot dug deep enough01:59
lcukjust using the camera as is01:59
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lcukworks a treat01:59
lcukits my instant cam - never had a usable phone cam before01:59
lcuki just keep whipping it out and flashing things02:00
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lardmando you use one?02:00
lardmanhard whipping it out then surely?02:01
lcuki thought you meant fruity!02:01
lcukbut then realised you were02:01
lcukbut not that kind of fruity02:01
lardmanhmm, vidioc_default - private IOCTL handler02:02
lcuki suppose we will find out one day02:03
lcukgotta keep some mysteries for the kids to solve ;)02:03
* lardman wonders how painful it would be to wrap some gsp elements02:04
lardmanprobably pretty painful as I can't type02:04
lcukwhy wrap them02:04
lcukyou mean to peak at the pipeline02:05
lardmannah, I want to use them from Python02:05
lardmanI see my decision to change from C has bitten me on the arse02:05
lcuki thought gstreamer "worked"02:05
lcukwe need to have hackable ui templates02:06
lcukbase forms for different purposes in the different toolkits02:06
lcukfor doing the normal day/day stuff02:06
lardmanui's are nasty things02:06
lcuknot always02:06
lcuka nececssary evil02:06
lcukfunctional ui> hard coded anyday02:06
lcukon amiga we had magicui02:06
lcukwhich was really simple and logical to setup02:07
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lcukbasically a tree of constructors02:07
lcukand bang! 99% of your ui was done02:07
lcuksimple single lines to construct cells02:07
derfThat only works if your UI is a bunch of static boxes.02:07
lcukmagicui was dynamic02:08
SpeedEvilYeah. All we need is a nice HTML way to draw the interface...02:08
lardmanwhat's wrong with GTK+ boxes?02:08
lcukhtml is the end result of magicui i expect..02:08
lcukSpeedEvil, you say that html is the be all tho, its gotta be embedded in the app realistically - otherwise everything you do to get a native library is a cludge02:09
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nomislardman: it is not owned by Nokia.02:09
pupnik_ visual basic02:09
lardmanah yes ;)02:09
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* lcuk smiles @ pupnik_ 02:10
SpeedEvillcuk: I know. I was just meaning html as it's a common descriptor language for 'pages'.02:10
nomislardman: not that they'd admit to that  :)02:10
SpeedEvillcuk: not that it's actually ideal02:10
lcukit might make 10000 crap apps, but its got the ability to!02:10
pupnik_when i was a kid, i drew sprites with pset() lcuk :)02:10
lcukyeah SpeedEvil02:10
lardmans/might make/might not make02:10
pupnik_didnt know how to load from disk02:10
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lcukzx spectrum 8*8 bicolor udgs02:11
SpeedEvillcuk: I have a slightly coded project to do parsing html with imagemaps and display on a teeny processor.02:11
lcuki can still recall the zx spectrum code which gave a dithered colorscheme02:11
pupnik_ah the speccy. fine brit kit :)02:11
SpeedEvillcuk: For simple heirarchical menus.02:11
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lcukSpeedEvil, interesting - baseline html to liq* is practical02:11
SpeedEvillcuk: but looking pretty02:11
lcukive tested it02:11
lcukbut my parser lacked balls02:12
lcukand only rendered 1 page on the internet02:12
lcukand choked on gifs02:12
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lcukbut it scrolled nicely and loaded quickly lol :)02:12
lcukand didnt try to download images till i scrolled down to em02:13
SpeedEvilI would donate - but I am chronically short of funds ATM.02:13
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lcukarent we all :)02:14
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lardmanpah, who needs design, one big button, one listbox, job done02:16
* nomis opts for ascii interfaces :)02:17
lcuklook at liqtorch! it has one biiiiiiiiiiig ass button02:17
SpeedEvilIt has an ass-button? Can't you use fingers?02:17
lcukno sorry02:17
lardmannomis: +102:17
lcukbacon interface only02:17
* lcuk is super impressed by the zooming ui on n81002:18
nomisactually, I'd love to see a widget set for terminals, that is event driven (similiar to GTK+).02:18
nomismaybe even a subset of GTK+ widgets  :)02:18
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lcuklol nomis - does the console send the correct events?02:19
lcukie is it possible to do DOS like uis?02:20
nomislcuk: well, you'd need something that creates events from console input. But yeah, modern terminal emulaters *can* deal with mouseclicks.02:21
lardmanall this talk of graphical uis is making me sleepy ;)02:21
luke-jrbut seriously, don't use GTK+ :(02:21
lardmannight all02:21
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nomishah!  :)02:21
lcukim gonna vanish again too02:22
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nomisluke-jr: why not GTK+? Because Nokia claims that it is no longer cool?02:24
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luke-jrnomis: because GTK+ was never cool and always sucked02:27
lcuknothing wrong with gtk - its got a lot of good code02:27
luke-jrI blacklisted GTK+ (and all apps requiring it) on my N81002:27
nomisluke-jr: as a Gimp developer I beg to differ  :)02:28
lcukoh yeah, you switched out the os02:28
luke-jrnomis: GIMP ftl, I use KolourPaint and Krita!02:28
sp3000hmm, I guess if I need to show someone how to make a fingerable datepicker I'll just point to liqcal now02:28
luke-jrsp3000: you shouldn't finger on a first date!02:29
* luke-jr runs02:29
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sp3000right right, let me clarify the parse tree02:30
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sp3000not the ((fingerable date) picker) but rather the (fingerable (date picker))02:31
nomisluke-jr: I don't know KolourPaint, but I've seen awesome stuff from Krita.02:31
luke-jrnomis: KolourPaint is like MS Paint02:32
nomisyeah, gathered that from their very first screenshot on the homepage:
timo2krita is really starting to shape up02:33
luke-jrwow, that's an ugly screenshot02:33
timo2it's already better than gimp imho02:33
luke-jrtimo2: has been for a while02:34
luke-jrif for no other reason that Qt4 instead of GTK+ :p02:34
nomistimo2: IMHO it totally depends on what you're trying to do. Krita definitely has the better natural paint emulation stuff.02:34
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timo2nomis: yip, it does have some limitations02:37
timo2but stuff like layer grouping is a must have02:37
timo2and yes, I do know they're coming to gimp02:37
nomistimo2: they're there mostly.02:38
nomistimo2: mitch has been doing a lot of work there recently.02:38
luke-jrnomis: why not just join the Krita dev team? ;)02:39
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nomisluke-jr: because they use C++  :)02:39
luke-jrno, they use Qt :p02:40
inzwhich is even worse02:40
luke-jrQt ftw02:40
nomisoh right, that makes it a proprietary C++ variant, right?  :)02:40
smackpotatohow many czars are we alowed to vote for02:40
luke-jrnomis: an open specification02:40
nomisdo they still have this weird preprocessing step for Qt?02:40
luke-jreven if not standardized yet02:40
luke-jrnomis: Qt has become its own language02:40
nomisluke-jr: not really, or?02:40
luke-jrnomis: it just lacks a standards committee02:41
nomisso, did they remove all the crap from C++?02:41
nomislike templates? Non-context-free-grammar etc.?02:41
luke-jrafaik the runtimes still depend on C++ stdlib02:41
lcuknomis, c++ lost its way when i found out ++ could be made to do --02:41
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lcukwhen i realised nothing was as it seemed it scared me02:42
nomislcuk: heh  :)02:42
inzlcuk, but you obviously cannot do that for any basic data types, only for own classes02:42
inzso it doesn't really matter02:42
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lcukinz, given a variable "x"02:42
inzints and shorts and char arrays, that's all you need02:42
lcukhow do you know specifically what datatype it is02:43
* lcuk agrees02:43
luke-jrlcuk: C++ is staticly typed02:43
inzlcuk, unless you use globals (yuck), that's pretty easy02:43
wazdI think that way like "I'm here ask me to help" is a bit wrong02:43
nomisluke-jr: which does not help when the error messages about type errors are absolutely undecypherable.02:43
sniff__i gather from this discussion nobody using maemomm/gtkmm? :)02:43
luke-jrnomis: that's the compiler, not the language02:43
wazdBetter use "Hey you, I see you need help, let me" :D02:43
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nomisluke-jr: but the language encourages that.02:44
lcukwazd, have you changed chans mid convo?02:44
nomisluke-jr: and the  "AA BB(CC);" problem is absolutely in the language.02:44
* lcuk had a good long conversation about qt today02:44
wazdlcuk: english please :D02:44
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lcukwazd lol what are you talking about02:45
lcukregarding help02:45
wazdlcuk: ah, no, it's about
lcuki know - he has the right idea, execution is a bit off02:46
wazdlcuk: sure, will to help is great thing02:47
wazdlcuk: thats 90% of the deal :)02:47
* lcuk nods02:47
lcukdid you see javispedros big win?02:47
lcukif not02:48
wazdlcuk: he's got n900 too? :D02:50
* wazd need to check #idonthaveann900 channel, if he's the only participant :D02:51
lcukwazd no way!  i have been running his code for the last 2 weeks02:51
lcuktrying to get it working - sending him reports of every single failure02:51
wazdlcuk: oh :)02:51
lcukwazd, the worst part was having it running for him in the emul02:54
lcukbut not on the device02:54
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lcukit was tricky to work out what the difference was02:54
lcukbut good core principles work :) everything else can be built on02:54
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MaceN8x0skype's slogan is take a deep breath?02:56
MaceN8x0is gizmo the only vid app that works on n810?02:57
MaceN8x0that is kind of lame02:57
wazdbbl, sleep02:58
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smackpotatofor communications? mace....02:58
luke-jrMaceN8x0: the native Chat app does03:00
MaceN8x0does it?03:00
MaceN8x0i thought they got rid of it03:01
smackpotatoIsn't there a flash upload site somewhere?03:02
nomisluke-jr: (I don't want to drag out the C vs. C++ discussion too long, but if you're curious about the AA BB(CC); thing have a look at - that document is ridicully biased, but an entertaining read and he at least backs up his opinion with examples)03:02
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smackpotatoc++ is been around longer than other object oriented languages acounts for some of its defects03:07
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lcuksmackpotato, but it started so well03:07
lcukc with objects03:07
lcuka single upgrade03:08
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nomissmackpotato: the problem is that it was not designed, it was cobbeled together.03:08
lcukchange method(instance,arg) into instance.method(arg)03:08
lcukand job is 99% done03:08
smackpotatoi tried learning c++ for years then c# came along and I actually could do stuff03:10
nomissmackpotato: c# is in many many ways more sane than C++.03:10
lcukyes - but i still hate the ms ide03:11
MaceN8x0just got into an argument about animal activism03:11
lcukthey killed vb03:11
lcukMaceN8x0, id rather not get into one here with you - this is code and dev talk03:12
lcukand fluff03:12
lcuknot serious shit :P03:12
MaceN8x0god is that all you guys talk about?03:12
MaceN8x0c++ is better than this.... python is the best scripting language.. assembly is the best...03:13
MaceN8x0they are all only as good as their developers03:13
smackpotatoi catch and release all my carrots (ot)03:13
lcuki have other chans for other outlets03:13
MaceN8x0the language is irrelevant03:13
MaceN8x0if there is a problem with a  language.. a good developer will simply fix it03:14
MaceN8x0if they can not because it would be too difficult.. they make their own03:14
lcukheh yeah03:14
lcukhence we have03:14
MaceN8x0such arguments only wind up traveling in circles03:14
smackpotatothe problem being that there is lots of soso developers like me that just want things simple03:15
lcukMaceN8x0, i look at visual basic03:15
MaceN8x0smackpotato, there is no such thing as simple03:15
smackpotatosimpler then03:15
MaceN8x0what you want is more of a shortcut than simplicity03:15
lcukand its possible in an afternoon to practically fill a harddrive with simplistic usable uis and apps03:15
lcukno hassle03:16
SpeedEvilWhat would clearly make it simple would be a new language! I'll call it 'm'.03:16
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lcukand the language can be bent into shape03:16
MaceN8x0lcuk, beauty is in the eye of the beholder03:16
MaceN8x0some might say assembly is not a hassle03:16
lcukagreed - but millions said vb was good enough03:16
lcukit turns blank page syndrome into usable functional ui in a matter of minutes03:16
MaceN8x0either way... languages are still irrelevant03:17
nomisin fact, programming AVR assembler was a beautiful experience.03:17
MaceN8x0and visual basic is just like using ms frontpage to make a web site03:17
luke-jrlcuk: comments on GAMBAS?03:17
lcuknomis, i always liked 68k03:17
MaceN8x0sure you can do fast things in it. but are you really learning anything?03:17
MaceN8x0probably not03:17
lcukluke-jr, its a bit far down the line RIGHT NOW to consider03:18
lcukbut i agree03:18
nomishaving a µC without all this operating-system bullshit around has a very special fun aspect.03:18
lcukit is a very possible step03:18
luke-jrlcuk: ?03:18
smackpotatovb was great exept for the basic conotation03:18
nomisbut of course at times you miss all that OS-bullshit  :)03:18
luke-jrsmackpotato: and Qt Designer?03:18
lcuksmackpotato, the same people who bitch about vb are now using python03:18
lcukcome on03:18
SpeedEvilOS bullshit is bullshit.03:18
MaceN8x0see what i mean03:19
* lcuk agrees03:19
MaceN8x0travels in circles03:19
SpeedEvilUntil you find you need to code a tcp/ip stack, and a http stack03:19
lcukspeedevil - liqbase is written in c03:19
MaceN8x0easiest way is to prove your point by making valid good well written apps03:19
MaceN8x0that serve a purpose and function and work properly as expected03:19
lcukfrom windows VB form layouts i produce a simple working liq* app03:19
* MaceN8x0 points to windows03:20
lcuki then hack and code in c03:20
* MaceN8x0 hides03:20
luke-jrlcuk: I still wonder what VB supposedly has that Qt Designer does not03:20
lcukease of use03:20
lcukno bloat03:20
lcukworking help03:20
luke-jrlcuk: I still wonder what VB supposedly has that Qt Designer does not03:20
MaceN8x0paid developers?03:20
zerojayare you out of your mind, lcuk?03:20
lcukzerojay, absolutely03:20
luke-jrMaceN8x0: Qt Designer developers are all paid03:20
MaceN8x0well. i gues qt has paid devs too03:20
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MaceN8x0ms probably pays more tho03:21
zerojayVB's bloated to shit and runs SO slow.03:21
lcukbut zerojay i can create a whole app in vb in under 10 minutes which includes package and stuff03:21
zerojaySimplicity... yeah, but only to seasoned programmers.03:21
MaceN8x0zerojay, in a world of $100 quad core 3Ghz systems03:21
lcukand zerojay where do you think i cut my teeth optimizing things03:21
MaceN8x0nothing should run slow03:21
smackpotatoI haven't checked it out03:21
MaceN8x0thank you china03:21
lcuki have spent nearly 10 years thinking about how to make things faster03:21
zerojayMaceN8x0: Try some VB programs sometime. :)03:21
pupnik_best use-case i found for VB was automating MS-office processes in a business03:22
MaceN8x0zerojay, haha03:22
lcuki work on the slowest computers in the office03:22
lcukand make my code purr03:22
pupnik_but that was long ago03:22
lcukand when the user gets the apps - they are happy03:22
lcukcos it runs well03:22
zerojaylcuk: There's only so much you can squeeze out of VB though. Yes, it's good for banging out stuff real fast.03:22
lcuknot at all03:22
lcukive done lots in it03:22
luke-jrPerl is the *nix VB ;)03:23
luke-jrexcept Perl lacks decent UI design03:23
lcuki dare someone to try
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zerojayWould if I ran Windows.03:23
lcukthat was the basic principle algo for physics view in liqbase03:23
lcukmany years ago03:23
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lcukand zerojay base datatypes were compiled to native code and ran quickly03:24
Vulcanisdoes anyone know of a USB dongle (nonrigid), or a rigid USB thing thats small enough and firm enough as to not snap off, that would allow me to 'network' an n800 and the laptop, and ssh and stuff over it?03:25
SpeedEvilVulcanis: bluetooth03:25
SpeedEvilVulcanis: there are ones that stick out 3mm or so03:25
VulcanisI meant to say bluetooth03:25
lcukVulcanis, your normal flashing cable03:25
Vulcanisbut yes03:25
MaceN8x0media player ogg doesn't support ogm03:25
zerojayUnless you're doing something very quick and easy, I found it was much better and faster to just let pros do it in C than waste time trying to optimize VB.03:25
SpeedEvilor does the n800 not have bluetooth03:25
Vulcanisso, bluetooth adapter, that can network the two, that doesn't snap off03:25
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zerojayMaceN8x0: Just audio codec, as far as I know.03:26
Vulcanisn800 has bluetooth, I forgot to say bluetooth USB adapter03:26
MaceN8x0that sucks03:26
* MaceN8x0 ponders converting03:26
SpeedEvilVulcanis: in principle it can - it's somewhat more annoying to setup than wlan03:26
lcuki was paid to maintain a large vb codebase03:26
MaceN8x0ugh this will suck :)03:26
lcukand i had time to mess03:26
MaceN8x0wtf uses ogm anyways03:26
zerojayYeah, I guess so. That sounds like hell.03:26
lcuki did not need for much03:26
luke-jrI was paid to maintain a decent size VB codebase. I rewrote it in C faster than it would have taken to try to fix it.03:26
VulcanisSpeedEvil: But what adapters can be useable, and have a range that is essentially my backpack on my back to my outstretched arms?03:26
Vulcanisthe only slots I'd have available are an SD slot and the USB slots03:26
zerojayMaceN8x0: Almost all the anime geeks with their subtitled versions use OGM.03:27
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Vulcanison the lappy, that is03:27
lcukhalf the battle is finding a boss you like03:27
luke-jrzerojay: that was 5+ years ago03:27
zerojaylcuk: Definitely true.03:27
MaceN8x0zerojay, isn't that what mkv is for?03:27
luke-jranime is all mkv now03:27
lcukand getting in a team with good people.  thats what i had for many years03:27
zerojayMaceN8x0: That too.03:27
MaceN8x0ironically enough. i'm trying to use it for anime ;)03:27
zerojaylcuk: How's the job hunt going so far, by the way?03:27
luke-jrwhy doesn't Nokia just hire lcuk?03:28
lcukholding pattern on a number of things03:28
zerojayYeah, good question.03:28
lcukand writing up guidebook for old place is sucking time03:28
MaceN8x0zerojay, did you see when lehman bros went under?03:28
MaceN8x0and they showed the b roll of the people doing the perp walk out the front door?03:28
zerojayThey spend all this time promoting his program... and they won't offer him a job? Heh.03:28
VulcanisSpeed: But whats the range on that?03:28
SpeedEvilVulcanis: also laptop in backpack may get regrettably hot03:28
zerojayMaceN8x0: I didn't see it personally, no.03:28
MaceN8x0you reminded me of the camerman who was filming it :)03:28
Vulcanisspeedevil: It doesn't.  I've tried running it before.03:28
zerojayMaceN8x0: I have no idea what that even means. lol03:29
SpeedEvilVulcanis: It should usually work just fine if that's all teh range you're looking for03:29
Vulcanishrm, ok03:29
MaceN8x0it's rather rude to scream out "how is finding a job going you unemployed  bastard"03:29
zerojaylcuk: Would you be willing to move across the pond?03:29
MaceN8x0some things are better left unannounced03:29
zerojayMaceN8x0: Excuse the fuck out of me for actually being concerned and maybe seeing if I could offer him a job myself, sheesh.03:30
SpeedEvilVulcanis: Plus, it's cheap.03:30
MaceN8x0oh i didn't say it to be mean :) i was just saying03:30
lcuki would, but my family would not.  and hence any job would require maintaining 1 home + wherever i am required03:30
zerojaylcuk: The game company I work for is always looking for programming talent.03:31
MaceN8x0lcuk, ironically enough .. that reminds me of the animal activist argument i had heh03:31
GeneralAntilleslcuk, but then you can start a second family!03:31
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Set up franchises? lol03:31
MaceN8x0it was about how far people are willing to go to survive03:31
nomisnight all. /me goes to bed dreaming of language syntaxes.03:32
lcukgnite nomis03:32
zerojayMaceN8x0:  It's amazing how much that changes when you go from being an irresposible kid to a family man.03:32
* GeneralAntilles wishes he had a way to check the status on his goddamn Mac Pro.03:32
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zerojayAdd an N somewhere in there.03:32
MaceN8x0some guy went to rural mexico and was being a bleeding heart about the people that were begging .. i told him it was darwinism and they will either learn how to grow something to eat or hunt03:32
lcukGeneralAntilles, z4chh wrote moncells - it shows status of computers on the network03:32
MaceN8x0zerojay, i am a family man ;).. well. i have a son03:32
lcukperhaps the moncelld could be ported03:32
SpeedEvilMaceN8x0: or ambush tourists.03:32
MaceN8x0SpeedEvil, yes. that too03:33
MaceN8x0my argument was that humans are simply animals03:33
zerojayMaceN8x0: I'm sure you noticed that change in yourself when he was born. I know I sure did.03:33
MaceN8x0zerojay, of course03:33
MaceN8x0SpeedEvil, and like animals they will either die or survive03:33
zerojayI just spent two hours after work taking a bus back to where my family and I went during the weekend because my kid left a stick he's had for a month or two behind.03:34
MaceN8x0simple darwinism03:34
* lcuk hopes to not have to beg. but paypal is modern equiv ;)03:34
zerojayAmazing how fatherhood changes you.03:34
MaceN8x0zerojay, wow. that is dedication. i'd have simply taught my son loss03:34
MaceN8x0if he loses a stick he would be sad. but it would teach him to not forget again03:35
zerojayMaceN8x0: He's had enough loss with all the moving around our family's had to do.03:35
* GeneralAntilles is an irresponsible kid and proud of it.03:35
zerojayMaceN8x0: But the next time... it stays there.03:35
MaceN8x0zerojay, then take up the job offer ;) and you can quit moving03:36
pupnik_any screen+irssi+ssh users know how to get a bell (ctrl+g) character from irssi through to the client-terminal i'm using (audio bell not visual bell)?03:36
GeneralAntilleszerojay, we should try to get an Americas Summit setup early next year.03:36
zerojayMaceN8x0: What job offer?03:36
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Yeah, that would be nice... wish I could be at this summit... *sigh*03:36
MaceN8x0oh. that was lcuk03:36
GeneralAntilleszerojay, hey, my N800 puppy idea is still free.03:36
lcukzerojay, i will talk to you soon if the offer is reasonable.03:37
MaceN8x0why do yu move around so much?03:37
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lcuki have to see the other things first, thanks for pointer03:37
zerojayMaceN8x0: Less now than originally. My wife lived in the US.. myself in Canada... it's a long story. And we're about to move again.03:37
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zerojayMaceN8x0: My company's starting a new office and they want me to help make it happen.03:37
GeneralAntillesI could also mount an N900 to a bike helmet and walk around with a Google video chat on for you. :P03:38
MaceN8x0sounds nice03:38
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Hahaha... awesome.03:38
MaceN8x0canada or the US?03:38
GeneralAntillesHmm. . . .03:38
zerojayMaceN8x0: I'm in Quebec City now and we're moving to Halifax in a month or so.03:38
zerojaylcuk: Just let me know and I'll get you in touch with the right people at my company. Doesn't hurt to try, right? :)03:39
MaceN8x0coding type work?03:39
zerojayMaceN8x0: I don't have "programmer" as my position, no.03:39
GeneralAntillesI need to find some reasonably sized computer speakers for that.03:39
zerojayUh... it's... kind of complicated.03:39
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zerojayMy official title is "data manager".03:40
Soopaman1hey gyus03:40
VulcanisGeneralAntilles: does the n900 have two cameras?03:40
Soopaman1anyone here actively dev'ing for the n900?03:40
Vulcanisone front/one back?03:40
zerojayBut only because there's really no single title that fits for what I do.03:40
MaceN8x0that sounds like a headache ;)03:40
Vulcanisbecause then you could do a video chat WITH augmented reality03:40
GeneralAntillesHe's the guy that puts the jackets inside the game cases. :P03:40
GeneralAntillesVulcanis, yes.03:40
GeneralAntillesVulcanis, no compass.03:40
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Vulcanisalso, is the n900 going to cost absurd ammounts stand-alone, or can you buy it without the cell feature for relatively cheap too03:41
MaceN8x0Vulcanis, can you use google vid?03:41
VulcanisMaceN8x0: For?03:41
zerojayMaceN8x0: I do light programming/bug fixing, proofreading, writing, voiceover supervision, light sound work, occasional pixel art, QA, tech support... eh...03:41
MaceN8x0the front cam03:41
MaceN8x0for vid chatting03:41
VulcanisI haven't used it for that03:41
zerojayMaceN8x0: I more or less do whatever I feel like doing or whatever people say they need.03:41
MaceN8x0that would be beyond awesome03:41
Vulcanismy n800 has like, the world's worst camera03:41
zerojayMaceN8x0: The last few days, I've been doing game design and concept pitches.03:41
VulcanisI'm just getting back into actually using my n80003:41
MaceN8x0game design is not a good gamble nowadays03:42
MaceN8x0Vulcanis, it also has the worlds worst camera support03:42
zerojayBut I am wholy unique within my company. I'm the one and only jack of all trades. Everyone else has an assigned post and title and are expected to stay within it.03:42
VulcanisMaceN8x0: Thats because the camera is nonexistant, or atleast, should be03:42
pupnikfun position zerojay03:42
MaceN8x0Vulcanis, heh. it works "kind of"03:42
VulcanisI'd rather that be a fingerprint reader or something awesome03:42
zerojaypupnik: It is... though a lot of people at work don't know exactly what I do. lol.03:42
pupnikor rather - not dull03:42
MaceN8x0but gizmo is the only thing i've seen it work on03:42
Vulcanisbut no, its a camera where 90% of your faces are blue03:42
pupnikhad the same situation03:43
VulcanisMace: gpscamera too03:43
MaceN8x0Vulcanis, mine would usually be green03:43
zerojayA coworker suggested that I get business cards made up... "Jay Carter - King of all Cosmos" lol03:43
MaceN8x0it's better than nothing though03:43
Vulcanisoh well my ccd is better than your ccd then I guess03:43
Vulcanisyou could use a program toput flesh color in all the blue dots, I guess03:43
MaceN8x0i used to use it to vid chat with my son03:43
zerojaypupnik: Yeah, you don't know what you'll do day to day. It is fun.03:43
Vulcaniswell, at the fps the camera gives03:43
VulcanisI'd give him a flip book of your pictures03:43
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Vulcanisand just tell him to flip through it every 30s or so03:43
MaceN8x0it wasn't THAT bad03:44
Vulcanisits not, but its pretty close03:44
MaceN8x0i mean it wasn't good03:44
MaceN8x0but it was good enough03:44
Vulcanisits better than nothing, but I can't help but wonder what else could have gone there03:44
MaceN8x0i just hope the n900 has better vid chatting support03:44
MaceN8x0made in china03:44
VulcanisI hope the n900 I can get un-cellphone-planned for sub-40003:44
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MaceN8x0maybe they will sell a different model like that03:45
VulcanisUSD that is03:45
zerojayHey... that reminds me... anyone want to try a quick video chat?03:45
Vulcanisthe thing is, if it has a cellphone03:45
VulcanisI'm sure you can get it unlocked03:45
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Vulcanisand it probably costs them less just to market it as a cell03:45
Vulcanisand mass produce thsoe03:45
MaceN8x0Vulcanis, i'm sure buying direct03:45
MaceN8x0it would be unlocked anyways03:45
Vulcanisbut I hope carrier plans drop it to sub-200, and that without a carrier its 40003:45
VulcanisMace: It better be unlocked with a carrier, too.03:45
zerojayAww... no takers? :/03:46
MaceN8x0Vulcanis, i doubt it03:46
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MaceN8x0tmob will most likely lock it03:46
VulcanisMace: I think nokia would push it.03:46
Vulcanisbecause the tablet is all about openness03:46
MaceN8x0no they won't03:46
zerojayVulcanis: Good luck with that.03:46
smackpotatoon a 810 zer...03:46
MaceN8x0they will push making more money off a tmob contract than pushing openess03:46
MaceN8x0nokia is a co.. they are all about making money03:46
smackpotatoiv'e never done video chat03:46
Vulcanisohhhh awesome, there are n810s for 150!03:46
MaceN8x0the "openness" is just to keep the fan base03:47
Vulcanisused ofc.03:47
zerojaysmackpotato: Sure. You on Google Talk?03:47
Vulcaniscan;'t skype use the camer atoo?03:47
MaceN8x0Vulcanis, try to find a wimax one03:47
GeneralAntilleszerojay, nobody wants to talk to a creeper.03:47
MaceN8x0Vulcanis, no03:47
smackpotatoi havent opened it for months03:47
VulcanisMace: theres no wimax in connecticut, is there?03:47
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Pfffft.03:47
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MaceN8x0don't think so03:47
MaceN8x0from what i remember03:47
zerojayGeneralAntilles: I think the exit polls reflect that quite well too. lol03:47
Vulcanisso why wimax? :(03:47
MaceN8x0last i checkd on amazon people were selling them for like $100003:48
MaceN8x0i was just messing with you03:48
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MaceN8x0no need really03:48
MaceN8x0wimax seems fail03:48
smackpotatook im on my nick is dochez03:48
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zerojayOn Gtalk?03:49
GeneralAntilleszerojay, stupid Talk.03:49
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smackpotatoya i think like google chat03:49
MaceN8x0i wish n810 had google vid support03:50
zerojaysmackpotato: Hang on a sec.03:51
zerojayMaceN8x0: It doesn't?03:51
MaceN8x0pretty sure it doesn't03:51
smackpotatodo i need a plugin03:51
zerojayI don't think so, but we'll find out.03:52
GeneralAntillesMaceN8x0, it does.03:52
MaceN8x0google video??03:52
GeneralAntillesIt's just that the PC client doesn't support Google's own damn protocol.03:52
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MaceN8x0omg haha03:52
MaceN8x0that sucks03:52
MaceN8x0no pc clients that support it?03:52
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zerojayI think empathy supports it.03:53
luke-jrJingle changed in the standardization process03:53
zerojayOh, did it?03:53
luke-jrGoogle Talk uses a pre-standard variant03:53
luke-jreg, what Google actually released03:53
luke-jrthe standards are all incompatible with that03:54
zerojaysmackpotato: Getting my IMs?03:54
zerojayluke-jr: Didn't know about that. Thanks.03:54
smackpotatoi got a blue led for a sec03:54
MaceN8x0so... can't someone just update03:54
MaceN8x0the diablo chat app to support the new codec?03:54
luke-jrwhat new codec?03:55
luke-jrit has nothing to do with codecs03:55
luke-jrits' GTalk that needs updating of protocol03:55
luke-jrand then it would break with older GTalks03:55
zerojaysmackpotato: Sent authorization.03:55
Robot101telepathy supports five XMPP calling variants :(03:55
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Robot101so you can interop with everything03:55
Robot101you can even upgrade the N810 to support google video /signalling/03:56
zerojayRobot101: How's Butterfly coming along?03:56
luke-jrRobot101: lolwut?03:56
Robot101but its still a codec issue - the N810 only has H263+, and google video only uses H26403:56
luke-jrwhen can I upgrade the N810 to actually connect to XMPP servers that require TLS?03:56
smackpotatook ive added you03:56
Robot101luke-jr: what happens? just build tp-gabble under the appropriate scratchbox and shove it on...03:56
MaceN8x0luke-jr, cant you in gentoo03:56
zerojaysmackpotato: Send me a message.03:57
luke-jrRobot101: I have no interest in scratchbox stuff03:57
luke-jrMaceN8x0: yeah, I meant in Maemo tho03:57
Robot101well, don't then. :)03:57
MaceN8x0Robot101, google have any plans to support it ever?03:57
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luke-jrMaceN8x0: the problem is I lack a usable WM for N810 Gentoo03:57
zerojayluke-jr: He's saying compile it in scratchbox and move it over to the tablet.03:57
luke-jrKWin is too heavy03:57
MaceN8x0so i can use my n810 to use google vid?03:58
luke-jrzerojay: and I'm saying I don't want to mess with a scratchbox03:58
zerojayluke-jr: Can't say I blame you. lol03:58
Robot101MaceN8x0: no, there's no H264 on the N81003:58
MaceN8x0luke-jr, use fluxbox :-P03:58
smackpotatosays your ofline03:58
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luke-jrMaceN8x0: no.03:58
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Robot101we support gtalk from 2005, which was libjingle 0.3... and gtalk from a couple of years after, which was libjingle 0.403:58
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zerojayThere you are.03:58
Robot101then those people somehow, er, died...03:58
Robot101and then google video is kinda based on libjingle 0.3 again03:59
MaceN8x0Robot101, guessing software codec isnt's an option?03:59
Robot101but with video wedged in03:59
Robot101(google managed to internally fork their own open source project?)03:59
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Robot101then we have jingle from 2007 when we added video call to the N80003:59
Robot101and we have current jingle03:59
Robot101so, 5 variants03:59
Robot101the jingle code is quite, er, hairy.03:59
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MaceN8x0that sucks, would have been an awesome feature04:00
Robot101MaceN8x0: I doubt it, H264 is more CPU-heavy than H263, and the n810 uses H263 already with some magical expensive hand-optimised codecs04:00
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luke-jrLinux really just needs a good video chat client04:01
MaceN8x0and convincing google to use h263 wouldn't be an option either i am guessing04:01
Robot101luke-jr: well, we're working on it04:01
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Robot101actually we just appointed a full-time Empathy maintainer starting from October04:01
luke-jrbut Empathy is GTK+04:02
luke-jrso automatically fails04:02
MaceN8x0Robot101, no way to hybrid an h263 to 264 "converter"04:02
MaceN8x0for compatibility04:02
Robot101MaceN8x0: heh... nice try. don't think so :D04:02
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luke-jrMaceN8x0: just add 1 to every byte04:02
luke-jrso h263 + 1 becomes h26404:03
MaceN8x0luke-jr, :K04:03
MaceN8x0if only it were that simple04:03
MaceN8x0too bad04:03
MaceN8x0i'm sure n900 will be able to do it04:03
MaceN8x0(i really hope)04:03
MaceN8x0i'd love to use my phone to vid chat with my son on a pc04:04
zerojayNot sure if it works or not to a regular Gtalk running on PC.04:05
zerojayCould always try.04:06
MaceN8x0or just give him the n810 and keep the n900 and hope they can still t2t04:07
MaceN8x0i guess that would work too04:07
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Robot101the N810 and N900 should be able to call each other04:10
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zerojayRobot101: Doesn't.04:17
zerojayRobot101: Well... no video anyways.04:17
zerojayon gtalk.04:18
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ShadowJKlol, that usb thread is huge05:14
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ShadowJKand mostly void05:19
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zerojayShadowJK: Holy shit. It's tripled in a few hours.06:06
ShadowJKAnd as a result any content or intelligent thought is drowning in the "me too" :(06:07
zerojayWait... wha... this post makes a ton of sense.06:08
zerojay"I'd just like to add that in my view, this whole business about the lack of a OTG/Host mode capability is a big mistake for what is touted as a handheld computer."06:08
zerojayokay.. understood, but then..06:08
zerojay"so why does it even need a USB client interface? I've never used that capability on my N800, not even once, unless you count (re)flashing."06:09
zerojaySame post... wtf.06:09
ShadowJKwith client he means gadget06:09
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ShadowJKso he's saying connecting n900 to computer is not needed06:10
zerojayeven still.06:10
ShadowJKbut n900 AS computer is needed06:10
zerojayI think he's sniffing glue.06:10
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ShadowJKI've only once connected tablet to computer for other than flashing, and that was just to see what happens :)06:11
* ShadowJK 's setup doesn't really work that well with MMCs vanishing06:11
zerojayFor anyone to say that host mode is something more important than USB charging... you're completely out of touch with the reality of the average user.06:11
microlithwhat about the charging aspect rules out host mode?06:12
MaceN8x0i thought it does host mode06:12
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ShadowJKmicrolith: it makes it more complicated. Need circuitry to disconnect the charge regulator from the USB dc bus and connect a voltage boost regulator to it instead to power it06:13
microlithah, basically making it a PITA to send power down the line06:13
ShadowJKand software logic to handle it all06:13
microlithtechnically, wouldn't a self-powered device work in that case?06:14
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ShadowJKI wonder if the Omap3 bugs would have had to be worked around in software before USB consortium would have approved it06:14
johnxhallo all :)06:15
ShadowJKmicrolith: I think on 770 which has no powerout you need to solder a hub/cable to feed power in the upstream direction06:15
zerojayI know it's a bummer for those that use host mode and all that, and I sympathize, but the N900's meant more for the mainstream so sometimes these kinds of things have to fall by the wayside if it means simplicity for the end user.06:16
ShadowJKI've used host mode on n810, but I've never used OTG. The OTG is definitelynot supported by N900 hardware06:17
ShadowJKwhat otg gives you is automatic detection and switching between client and usb06:17
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ShadowJKthe question still remains unanswered if a kernel can force the usb into host mode, and if the port is electrically compatible with host mode (in other aspects than the power issue)06:18
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zerojayCan't say I've used that either.06:20
ShadowJKWell and first we'd probably want to see the omap bugs worked around :-)06:20
pupnikwow, my first vnc over gigabit ethernet.06:20
ShadowJKWhen beagle and touchbook get reliable usb...06:20
* pupnik likes!06:20
pupnikzerojay: you ever hear of freenx for maemo?  nxclient/server?06:21
microlithShadowJK: didn't realize omap had bad usb bugs06:21
zerojaypupnik: Heard of it, think I tried it once ages ago.06:21
pupnikk then i look06:21
zerojayNot sure if I tried a Maemo version though.06:21
zerojayI do know that nx is supposed to be a very speedy implementation of VNC, if I'm not mistaken.06:21
pupniki had a guy's email in australia that was working on an ARM version in 200306:22
Vulcanisits through ssh or something06:22
VulcanisI don't think its vnc06:22
johnxgoogle did something with nx recently ...06:22
pupnikNX is not vnc06:22
johnxdon't remember what though06:22
bbigrasNX technology is a computer program that handles remote X Window System connections, and attempts to greatly improve on the performance of the native X display protocol to the point that it can be usable over a slow link such as a dial-up modem. It wraps remote connections in SSH sessions for encryption and authentication security.06:23
pupnikoh maybe 200406:26
ShadowJKnxssh is in extras...06:26
ShadowJKdunno if it doed anything useful06:27
bbigrasIt looks like nxssh is a "Modified OpenSSH daemon and client for NX."
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bbigrasas a reference, OpenBSD has nxcomp, nxssh and opennx (oss client) in it's port tree
ShadowJKnxcomp in extras too06:34
bbigrasIt seems opennx run on arm, OpenBSD has a package for it . bbl06:39
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pupnikDilbert comic - Stupid Cell-phone Apps:
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RST38hheya pupnik08:02
RST38hWhere is XFade nowadays?08:03
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_follower_hi, i tried to download from but it says the file's not found. the server version seems to be downloading ok. any suggestions? thanks.08:09
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MaceN8x0i am imagining08:12
MaceN8x0shows and movies without cell phones08:13
RST38hfollower: Bad URL?08:14
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zerojayMaceN8x0: Impossible!08:18
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MaceN8x0burn notice is so damn funny08:20
_follower_RST38h: the url listed is
pupnikhaven't seen in a long time RST38h08:23
pupnikirssi seems to be sometimes not catching nick-hilights - for example the last one from RST38h did not turn the channel colors or beep08:23
RST38hHardcore IRCers use IRCII! :)_08:27
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MaceN8x0i havent used that since like 9208:34
MaceN8x0with its l33t scripts08:34
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pupnikI keep typing ls -lotr instead of ls -ltr (list newest date last)08:43
lirianything interesting in the maemo world? :)08:44
zerojayNo, never. ;)08:45
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lirizerojay: seems like that for a long time now :)09:00
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KhertanHi !09:22
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* pupnik Away, but within earshot of privmsg beep - mostly 09:42
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_follower_oooh, magic, a split version of the desktop image has appeared & the other link has disappeared. :)09:58
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wazd_n800lo all10:34
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jaemevening, wazd_n80010:34
wazd_n800jaem, morrnin')10:35
jaemI've decided that doing comp-sci homework on my N810 in VI on the bus is not efficient10:36
jaemhowever, given that I was already on the bus when I remembered that my laptop didn't have an OS installed...10:36
jaemwazd_n800: you should release the TI-84+ Hello Kitty skin as an easter egg :P10:37
wazd_n800jaem, well, that's not me who releases, that's RST38h10:38
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wazd_n800jaem, ti84+ is still not working anyway10:39
wazd_n800jaem, better ask RST38h for details)10:42
RST38hmoo all10:42
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RST38hWho disturbed me in my crypt? Are they crunchy?10:43
wazd_n800RST38h, heya10:43
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jaemRST38h: me, and no10:46
timelesserr voting lasts for only one week; while i'm on vacation.10:46
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mavhcif you're doing comp-sci you shouldn't need an OS, that's for the engineering students10:53
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jaemmavhc: I'm doing Computer Engineering10:56
jaemso I need an OS, but I don't have one ;)10:56
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jaemactually, it was just a government-loaned junker laptop, and I partway through installing Arch (after formatting Ubuntu+WinXP), I realized that the ethernet jack was borken10:59
jaemand i didn't feel like messing with wpa_supplicant10:59
jaemso I just left it10:59
woglindewpa_supplicant is fairly easy11:00
jaemwoglinde: yes, but I don't like it11:00
jaemand I've barely used it11:00
woglindeyou dont like wpa?11:00
jaemI don't like the cli supplicant11:00
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woglindehm I used if/up-down11:01
woglindeand guessnet11:01
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jaemsigh... g'night everyone11:02
woglindesleep well11:02
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RST38h"Afghanistan could be lost in a year: US commander"11:35
RST38h(can you do it faster and move on already? =))11:36
woglinderst *g* faster then russia11:36
RST38hWell, they are currently getting dangerously close to Russian record11:38
RST38hAnd we know what followed for Russia...11:38
pupnikThe British also decided it wasn't worth the trouble11:40
RST38hpupnik: British fucked up first and preferred short military incursions afterwards11:40
RST38hAt least they learned their lesson11:41
pupnikhow about a #maemo-pub for this stuff11:41
RST38hAh, it is just a generic filler for the silence :)11:41
pupnikyeah i am a bit weary of channel forking11:42
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timelessyour generic filler costs me valuable gprs data bits11:44
Stskeepshow's travel so far? :P11:44
RST38hdisconnect then.11:45
woglindetimeless buy a flatrate11:45
timelessnot bad, i got hijacked from kiev to uman for the weekend. but i spent the night here in kiev11:46
timelessi'll try to tour today and find some trains from here to krakow for tonight11:46
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timelesswoglinde: i got an employer to offer the subscription, so it shouldn11:46
timelesst be bad11:46
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pupnik"krakow! krakow!" - Calvin11:46
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timelessarg the font setting in x terminal is global. not per window11:57
GAN800timeless. we decided to disenfranchise IE7 users and you for this election. :P12:00
lcukmornin folks \o12:00
woglindehi lcuk12:00
lcukhey woglinde12:01
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timelessoh goody12:08
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pupnikstill surprised i haven't seen more of nx / freeNX :|12:22
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pupniki'm afraid i can't construct a question out of a question mark12:23
pupnikif i could do that, i'd have a helluva patent on file compression :D12:23
woglindepupnik I worked a lot with nx12:24
woglindethats why I asked12:24
pupnikyou have a client and/or server for tablet?12:24
pupniki feel like rip van winkle12:25
pupnikahh qtnx?12:26
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pupnikah here's one
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woglindepupnik lol12:27
woglindethats what I did12:27
woglindeunfornatly softkeys dont work12:27
woglindeaeh softkeyboard12:27
pupnikthat is really really great :)12:28
pupnikthank you12:28
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woglindethats why I asked12:28
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woglindeI think I should update it12:28
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pupnikcan you suggest a 'how to not cock-up a nx server install on debian or similar' guide?12:31
pupnikheh i just recall something being a pain last time i used it12:31
pupnikwantcontrol pc from tablet - nx is fastest game in town right?12:32
pupnikhow much better than vnc?12:32
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woglindenx is better over inet12:32
woglindebecause of the roundtrips12:32
woglindewe hade it work over gsm12:32
woglindeand utms12:32
pupnikmy local wlan transfers top around 70KB/s12:32
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pupniknx has to be better for moving around windows and x terminals12:33
woglindedo you have n810?12:33
woglindehm okay12:33
woglinderussian layout?12:34
woglindehm some keys might not work12:34
woglindebecause of evdev stuff12:34
woglindeumlauts for instance12:34
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pupnikgoogle only shows me that evdev seems to be xorg keyboard handling thing12:37
woglindeyeah nokia used evdev before the major distros switched to it12:38
* Meiz_n810 feels stupid..12:39
woglindemeiz why?12:41
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KhertanAye !12:48
Meiz_n810i'm making myself a conplete idiot by typing useless messages aroud all kind of forums and irc channels... :(12:49
* pupnik wants safe implants for neural-stimulated vr 12:49
pupnikand then a brain in a vat of nutriflex12:49
pupnikthey can engineer these little lung-fronds that will absorb a premix diet of sugars and whatever else good stuff is in blood12:50
pupnik'hey joe.  nice lookin' fronds'12:51
SpeedEvilI want glucose powered battery charger.12:51
SpeedEvilYou put mobile phone in pocket, and it auto-charges from the glucose powered charger.12:52
pupnikbleed local cattle to power your laptop :?12:52
SpeedEvilPlus - free diet!12:52
pupniki was thinking of a vampiretop12:52
pupnikneeds fresh blood12:52
woglinde2.4 is out even12:53
RST38hThicker than water.12:53
RST38hAnd much tastier.12:53
pupniki can test i think12:54
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JaffaMorning, all12:59
woglindehi jaffa13:00
pupnikhmm i get 'incompatible package' on the .install from gronmayer / os200813:02
Proteousman, try to do one simple thing and it all explodes and you find yourself editing syslog-ng configs at 3am13:02
pupniki'll try adding extras manually13:02
RST38hmoo Jaffa13:03
lcukmornin council member jaffa13:03
Khertanlcuk: slurp ...13:04
KhertanHi lcuk  :)13:04
Khertanhi everybody !13:04
lcukheh hiya Khertan \o13:04
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* GeneralAntilles fires off the first candidate interrogation sheet.13:08
woglindehi khertan13:09
Khertanhi woglinde13:09
* Khertan is trying pluthon13:09
KhertanTo install host-pc-connectivity on a windows XP or Vista system, you should first install Cygwin.13:11
Khertanouch ... ok ...13:11
Khertantry finished13:11
pupnikfinished what Khertan ?13:12
Khertani m trying pluthon ...13:12
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I was going to do one, sending it direct to them and CCing maemo-community.13:13
Khertanread that it s wonderfull ... connection with the device ... blablabla ... also on windows ... blabla ... require cygwin :)13:13
pupnikwould you like to tell me something about pluthon, Khertan ?13:13
Khertanso not for me ...13:13
Khertanyou are one of the maintainer13:13
GeneralAntillesJaffa, hopefully they're all subscribed. ;)13:13
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pupniki forgot to preface that with13:13
pupnik"i know nothing about pluthon"13:14
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Indeed. I was also going to say "I'll write your responses up and publish a blog post about it on Wednesday evening"13:14
Khertanit s a project of a ide for "python for maemo"13:14
pupnikahaa ty13:14
Khertanbut it s based on eclipse13:14
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Khertanrequire cigwin for connectivity on windows13:14
Khertanso clearly not for me13:14
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pupnikbrr freenx broken13:19
GeneralAntillesThat NetWalker is absolute perfection for Mer.13:19
woglindepupnik hm?13:19
woglindepupnik install the ubuntu ppa packages13:20
pupnik freenx: Depends: nxagent (>= 1.4.92+1.5.0) but it is not installable13:20
woglindeworks even on debian13:20
pupnikjust google ubuntu ppa?13:20
woglindeubuntu freenx ppa13:20
pupnik   don't see it13:21
pupnikrather, 7 results13:21
pupnikmarcelo or ppa for freenx team?13:21
woglindedeb intrepid main13:22
pupnikk ty13:22
KhertanGeneralAntilles: oh yep nice device13:24
pupnikvery grateful for that link13:26
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Khertanuh ? the palm pixi ... never heard of it ...13:30
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pupniknone of the howtos apply to the debian version13:35
pupnikSep 22 12:24:26 peppi useradd[17778]: new user: name=nx, UID=110, GID=120, home=/var/lib/nxserver/home/, shell=/usr/bin/nxserver13:35
pupnikthen 15 seconds later,13:36
pupnikSep 22 12:29:41 peppi sudo:     root : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/home/pupnik ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/etc/init.d/ssh restar13:36
* pupnik spelunks13:36
RST38hGentlemen, has anyone played with PulseAudio?13:38
RST38hDoes it have some limit on the number of clients?13:39
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akshayHi ! Can we use poppler with Qt on maemo 4 ?13:51
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wazdkonttori_: hello again, are you tired already of my questions? :D13:58
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wazdMy chances to avoid Army sky-rocketed today14:12
wazdI should be drunk now actually :D14:13
inzThe infamous russian army?14:13
konttori_wazd, ?14:13
wazdinz: yeah-yeah :)14:13
inzwazd, then you should not only be drunk, you should be wasted14:13
wazdkonttori_: Another quick template question14:13
SpeedEvilwazd: They discovered you are a diseased drunkard with one leg, and a squint?14:13
wazdkonttori_: what's positive/negative slider?14:14
GAN800wazd, mean you can come to the Summit?14:14
* SpeedEvil realises he should probably learn python or perl.14:14
wazdGAN800: impossible to make papers that fast, next year 100% :)14:14
wazdGAN800: I don't even have international passport14:15
GAN800Ah, too bad.14:15
GAN800Congrats, though.14:15
wazdGAN800: not to mention visa and stuff14:15
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konttori_wazd, I'll find out14:16
wazdkonttori_: thx a lot14:16
wazdI'm not drunk and wasted cause I'm ill :(14:19
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RST38hwazd: You can still get the passport14:20
RST38hVisa is a different business though14:20
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inzSpeedEvil, you don't learn perl, you start living perl14:23
SpeedEvilinz: :)14:24
SpeedEvilI just realised awk is probably not going to cut it for this.14:24
SpeedEvilhttp compressor. You can write hash functions in awk - but they aren't fast.14:25
wazdRST38h: well, I can make passport in one day :)14:25
RST38hperl isn't exactly speedy either14:25
wazdRST38h: theoretically :)14:25
RST38hwazd: Yea, but that will cost you ~$50014:25
inzRST, faster than gawk14:25
RST38hwazd: If you can in fact do this, you have got just enough time to get the visa14:26
SpeedEvilRST38h: no - but you can use md5 libraries which aren't horribly slow.14:26
JaffaX-Fade_: ping14:27
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X-FadeJaffa: pong14:27
RST38hAh! Live X-Fade!14:28
JaffaX-Fade: I've posted an email to maemo-community which is held because of "too many recipients" for moderator approval. Could you help along, pleasE?14:28
wazdRST38h: I gave my slot to Max anyway, so c'est la vi :)14:29
RST38hwazd: Let us vote to move the next summit somewhere more open14:29
RST38hwazd: Can I suggest Cuba? =)14:29
wazdRST38h: some carribean island :)14:30
RST38hwazd: Cuba is better ;)14:30
RST38hwazd: 'cause every single US visitor will have to fly undercover through Canada14:31
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X-FadeJaffa: Why did you use an unsubscribed email?14:34
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wazdquick poll - what to do with thin scrollbars - hide them like I did in titan or make them ordinary?14:35
JaffaX-Fade: I didn't. It's held because of "too many recipients".14:35
X-FadeJaffa: No, your gmail isn't subscribed to the list.14:36
X-FadeJaffa: The bleb one is.14:36
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JaffaX-Fade: Hmm, it should have been sent with the bleb one.14:37
JaffaX-Fade: And the message suggests it's because I sent it to the 9 council candidates and cc'ed the list (I've seen that before)14:37
JaffaX-Fade: The "From" here says (although the envelope will say gmail cos of the silliness of the way gmail works)14:38
fralsgod i dislike when people change the font in their posts on t.m.o >_<14:42
* aquatix wonders why it's even possible to do so14:42
RST38hwazd: turn them into handles?14:43
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wazdRST38h: well, not in this theme :)14:45
wazdRST38h: but steampunk theme would be cool :)14:45
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Stskeepswazd: ping14:48
wazdStskeeps: yessir :)14:49
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The_Tall1Hi there I want to install the qt-maemo-example but libglib2.12.12-1osso10 and freetype6-2.3.5 are missing. Where can I find them to install them manually?15:09
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lardmanstrange why a company won't provide source code when their comms is done over a plain serial cable15:17
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lardmanthe wonders of portmon15:19
timelesslardman, who is this?15:20
lardmanoh some laser manufacturer15:20
X-Fadelardman: Wouldn't be the first time I had to trace the line protocol ;)15:21
lardmanX-Fade: yeah15:22
RST38hlardman: Give suits sense of security15:22
lardmanI seem to spend inordinate amounts of time reverse engineering protocols and file formats so I can actually do what I want with the hw/data15:22
lardmanbut it's interesting at least :)15:22
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pupnikbah healthy young men should be outside on a nice sept day like this15:23
lardmanI was, I walked to work15:23
lardmanchilly & overcast here though15:24
lardmanah, I missed the young bit ;)15:24
pupnikyeah ... doing manual labor for little pay15:24
X-Fadelardman: You're not in the old farts club yet :)15:24
pupnikeverybody wants shortcuts nowadyas15:24
lardmanX-Fade: yay! tell that to my joints after some exercise15:25
lcukthere is no shortcut to hardwork :P15:25
RazumihinI hope that i some day have my own garage so i don't have to be on the outside at all when i go to work! :)15:25
lcukpupnik, one thing - at the summit, remind me not to go walking again ;)15:25
lardmannot even asking on -developers? ;)15:25
lardmanlcuk: less walking, more drinking time15:25
lcukand coding hacking hopefully15:25
lcuktho i dont know how ill cope without my  windows desktop lol15:26
pupnikbbl outside15:26
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lcukn900 has no aversion to the sunlight15:26
lcukyou can irc and chat still even in the sun!15:26
RST38hyou have got xchat running?15:27
timeless. oh awesome. i don't think the mail client handles :'s in attachment names well. too bad attachments tend  to be replies and forwards15:28
timelessoops wrong window15:28
Myrttioh christ15:28
Myrttithe mailing list just vomited into my inbox15:29
RST38hwhat was in its food?15:29
lbtcarrots of course15:30
aquatixand corn15:31
RST38hand little newbie users asking how to use tar? =)15:32
lardmanon which list?15:33
lardmanperhaps we should have an invite only -developers list ;)15:33
RST38hand call it -elite15:33
RST38hthen start creating -super-elite, -mega-elite, etc15:33
aquatixnah, the n00bs won't even be able to spell "elite"15:33
RST38hWill get more difficult once you reach -gods of course15:34
aquatixthey're stuk with "1337"15:34
lardmanmaemo-users is less typing than maemo-developers, true15:34
aquatixRST38h: "small gods", ..15:34
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lardmanI think the Romans had tiered gods didn't they?15:34
aquatixyeah, or at least lesser important ones and such15:35
RST38hmore or less, although it was a bit more complicated15:35
aquatixand house gods and such15:35
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lardmansounds like a sacrifice is needed15:36
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RST38hand not a lame rabbit or a cat!15:36
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lardmanthat's a pretty cool deity, like the face tentacles15:37
lardmanlol @
RST38hlardman: Have you seen my favorite pic "Cthulhu explains the necessity of dpad to Nokia engineers"?15:40
lardmando you have a link?15:41
RST38ha moment15:41
lardmanCthulhu vs. FSM, both tentalcy, I wonder who would win15:42
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RST38h(alternative name: "The Tentacled One visits Modest development team")15:43
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Myrttiah, that would explain it15:44
Myrtti"Heads-up just to say that I went throughh the maemo-community moderation15:44
Myrttiqueue a second ago, thus the flood of old emails."15:44
lardmanI didn't realise it was a moderated list15:45
X-FadeOnly if size > X or other weirdness.15:46
lardmanah ok15:46
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Robin_WattsHi all. Seeking a sanity check, from those who speak NEON, please.16:04
Robin_WattsIf Q0 is full of S16's = 0xFFFE (so Q0=0xFFFEFFFEFFFEFFFEFFFEFFFEFFFEFFFE), and I do VQMOVUN.S16 D0,Q0  - what should D0 become ?16:05
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Robin_WattsVQMOVUN.S16 means (I believe), move the signed 16 bit things, into 8 bit unsigned saturated things.16:06
* RST38h facepalms16:07
Robin_WattsSo the signed value FFFE should be saturated into the 0...255 region, hence I should get 0's.16:07
RST38hAt least it is nice to see that you have made neon assembler work16:07
Robin_WattsAt least, that's my reading of it.16:07
Robin_Wattsqemu disagrees with me.16:07
RST38hqemu is not an absolute authority16:08
RST38hbut let me see for a second16:08
Robin_WattsYes, it's all working very well now (except for this problem). Thanks for your help with that.16:08
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RST38hRobin: it will copy 4xS16 values into 4xU8 values with saturation16:10
Vulcanisso... /usr/lib shouldn't be 141mb, should it?16:10
Vulcanis163 now... its still going16:11
Robin_WattsOK. So if the S16 value is 0xFFFE, the U8 value will be ....16:11
Vulcanisfsck it, I;'m just going to reformat the tablet.16:11
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RST38hRobin: Ok what Qemu returns?16:12
Robin_Wattsqemu says ff.16:12
RST38hin all four slots?16:12
lcukand hwat happens if you plumb 01ff in16:12
RST38hThe source is -2...16:13
Robin_WattsI think qemu is doing the same for VQMOVUN.S16 and VQMOVN.U1616:13
RST38hMaybe. Let me check something else.16:13
Robin_Wattsbut I'd like that confirmed by someone who has more of a clue than me :)16:13
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suihkulokkiRobin_Watts: you should mail the qemu-devel mailing list16:14
Robin_WattsMy qemu is 2 years old, so it may well have been fixed.16:14
Robin_WattsI should hopefully have a beagleboard arriving in a few days, so I can try it on real hardware then, but...16:15
woglindeRobin_Watts hm wasnt beagleboards sold out?16:15
suihkulokkiRobin_Watts: why are you not using git snapshot or the maemo qemu ?16:15
X-FadeRobin_Watts: That is the repository for the one Nokia is using.16:15
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Robin_Wattswoglinde: I'm borrowing one.16:16
Robin_WattsI'm using the latest maemo Virtual Image, updated with the latest toolset it can take.16:16
X-FadeRobin_Watts: The one released today?16:16
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suihkulokkiX-Fade, Robin_Watts, fwiw the new-master branch there is the current one16:17
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Robin_Wattswoglinde: Supposedly digi-key has 589 beagleboards in stock.16:19
woglindelast time they were sold out16:19
woglindebut the igep is better anyway16:19
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woglindesold out16:20
Robin_Wattswhy is it better?16:20
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woglindemore ram more flash ethernet bt/wireless16:21
woglindeonly 50 bugs more16:21
woglindeand now I am to late16:21
RST38hRobin: Check ARM docs on saturated math, i cannot find them myself16:22
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woglindehi qwerty16:22
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RST38hRobin: You want to find out what the LOWER sat boundary is16:22
qwerty12Hi, woglinde, how's it going?16:22
woglindeqwerty12 igep board is sold out16:23
qwerty12Ah :(16:24
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woglindeI looked every day16:24
woglindeand now I am to late16:24
qwerty12Is it the best one available on the market/for your needs?16:24
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woglindeI love the spains16:25
Robin_WattsRST38h: "VQMOVUN (Vector Saturating Move and Narrow, signed operand with unsigned result) copies each element of the operand vector to the corresponding element of the destination vector. The result element is half the width of the  operand element, and values are saturated to the result width."16:25
GeneralAntillesTime warp on -community16:25
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woglindegermany in the shipping table is under alemania16:25
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Myrttiat_gnutiken: :-( little irc gnomes that put bits into the network cry16:27
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RST38hRobin: I have seen this one. The question is what "saturated" means16:27
RST38hRobin: What is the bottom bound16:28
Robin_Wattsfor unsigned 0.16:28
RST38hfor signed?16:28
pupnik_wwwow i understood that16:28
Robin_Wattssigned is -128 to 127. unsigned is 0 to 25516:29
RST38hSo -2 must map to -2 or to 0 if unsigned16:29
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Robin_Wattsqemu returns ff :)16:29
SpeedEvilsaturating means limiting to the range of the datatype16:30
konttori_wazd, ping16:30
konttori_wazd, The16:30
konttori_negative/positive slider is a slider that goes in both directions, so16:30
konttori_instead of being filled from the left, the theme only draws a marker16:30
konttori_in the center. This can be observed in the image viewer when adjusting16:30
konttori_brightness for example.16:30
konttori_wazd, The control bar I believe is the bar that consists of a bunch of16:30
konttori_buttons, like the brightness selection of the screen.16:30
SpeedEvilso 34*43 = ff - if it's saturated to an 8 bit unsigned datatype16:30
woglindekonttori_ bahahahaaa16:30
wazdkonttori_: oh, great, thanks a lot!16:31
woglindekonttori_ 8 line paste16:31
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KhertanIs there an easy way to make usb network throught a windows xp on diablo ?16:32
woglindehm no16:33
Khertanas everythings is try fail16:33
Khertaninsmod g_ether doesn't seems to work16:34
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wazdkonttori_: my theme .psd already weights 90 Mb :)16:34
Khertanmaemo pc connectivity project require a patched kernel16:34
RST38hwazd: I bet it saves undos =)16:35
qwerty12Khertan: That patched kernel, if you're using USBnet with Windows, is required regardless of the method you're using to set it up :)16:35
wazdRST38h: nope)16:35
wazdRST38h: just a lot of layers16:35
Khertanqwerty12: ;(16:35
wazdRST38h: a *lot* :D16:35
RST38hmore than pixels? =)16:35
Khertanso this explain why g_ether doesn't seems to work16:36
wazdRST38h: no, but I'm working on it :)16:36
* RST38h suggests adding a brainstorm idea "make scrollable lists backgrounds skinnable"16:36
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konttori_wazd, nice!16:45
konttori_lemme see it at some point, will you?16:46
wazdkonttori_: I can send you .png so you can build package and check it on device :P16:46
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konttori_would be great. I'm going to be busy today, but tomorrow I could test it out.16:47
wazdkonttori_: cool16:47
konttori_I can make a quick video for you then as well16:47
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wazdkonttori_: oh, that would be super awesome :)16:48
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wazdkonttori_: and some screenshots if possible, so others will se what I'm doing :)16:48
suihkulokkiX-Fade: filed as #517416:48
konttori_wazd, sure, some shots as well16:48
X-Fadesuihkulokki: I'll ping Ferenc about it.16:50
lardmanlcuk: am firing up VB16:51
lcukc4 or conventional explosives?16:51
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lardmanhopefully my exposure will be short16:52
lardmanbut just incase I get sucked in, I've got dynamite strapped to my chest16:52
lardmanshould push me far enough away from the PC to escape its grasp16:53
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lardmanoops, but those are keywords, the feds will be round soon16:54
X-Fadelardman: That's cool. About the only helicopter I don't own is a black one.16:54
wazdanybody has a shot with breadcrumb trail?16:55
lardmanwhat, see if I can steal it while they're looking for the chap in a headscarf ;)16:55
wazdTo check how it looks16:55
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X-Fadelol, helicopter flies over now.16:55
qwerty12wazd: HildonBreadCrumbTrail is deprecated and HildonStackableWindow takes its place16:55
qwerty12In Fremantle, anyway16:55
wazdqwerty12: well, it's in the theme anyway :)16:56
qwerty12Ah :)16:56
X-Fadelardman: Chinook, so not to worry.16:56
lardmanget more people in one of those16:56
qwerty12wazd: Well, you get to stick a large notice: "You shouldn't be using this! Boo!" :)16:56
wazdqwerty12: And mommy told me not to talk to evil people))16:56
lardmanor perhaps they read my nick and thought they'd need the heavy lifting capacity ;)16:56
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qwerty12lardman: I can get you heavy, heavy duty cranes if you need them in Amsterdam to get around16:57
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lardmanoi, not so rude sonny16:57
pupnik_do they slingshot you from crane to crane?16:57
lardmanI am flying through Luton, so might bring an extra case for you16:58
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wazdqwerty12: I can make it invisible though :)17:01
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* lardman apologises for his non PC comments17:02
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javispedroso, how are the candidates today?17:12
qwerty12They're waiting to be bribed ;)17:12
* javispedro flips a coin17:13
qwerty12Bribing lcuk is easy: send him a Queen's English Dictionary17:13
qwerty12(and some cigarettes with bacon)17:13
javispedrotails. so "trying to make diablo's modest actually free some cache space" is today's itch to scratch then.17:14
lardmanqwerty12: not sure he'll appreciate a southern dict17:14
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qwerty12The bastard has a module for this somewhere...17:14
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infobotmethinks coin is flipped... heads or tails?17:14
* infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... tails!17:14
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javispedro~bribe the council17:14
* infobot slaps javispedro and calls the cops to turn in javispedro for trying to bribe the council17:14
qwerty12lardman: consider it a hint, then ;)17:15
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qwerty12javispedro: BUSTED17:15
lardmandon't worry, he can write faster than he can talk these days with liq*17:15
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javispedroi remember the "modest doesn't actually delete messages" bug was FiF?17:16
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* lupine_85 wonders if the quassel client will run on maemo17:18
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lcukoi qwerty12 lardman javispedro \@17:22
javispedrohello lcuk17:23
lcukmake sure the bribe is huge and i might accept17:23
qwerty12lcuk: But a dictionary will bring huge benefits to you17:23
lcukyeah - nice and heavy for bashing you on the head with17:23
lcukyou cheeky scamp17:23
* javispedro does have some huge dictionaries17:23
javispedropotentially human killing17:24
qwerty12lcuk: OK, fine, in that case give your fellow council members a Northerner-English dictionary17:24
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woglindehi javis17:25
javispedrohi ya17:25
lcukim not even on the council - its highly likely my accent has scared people off17:25
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lcukjavispedro, did the groupies get you about the pvr win17:26
* javispedro laughs at the idea an accent from the u.k. could scare a set of international people :)17:26
lcukhave you been recognised on the streets yet?17:26
fralsexcuse a poor newbie in this community, but did i do this right?
qwerty12javispedro: Oh, you haven't heard lcuk's accent17:26
javispedrolcuk: not yet. today was a pretty average day :) not even god bothered to talk to me :(17:26
qwerty12Tell Him that you can get an N900 for his use17:27
lcukfrals, assuming that is your submission, yes you posted correctly! well done for starting the ball rolling17:27
lcukhopefully your idea will gain momentum and flourish and evolve into a workable component in the os :)17:27
akshayHi ! I want to cross compile(for arm target) a Qt application on maemo 4 sdk which uses poppler for pdf rendering. Is it possible?17:27
fralsone can hope :) was just unsure how to phrase it in the brainstorm :)17:28
javispedroqwerty12: did Him wandered today around your house to see your N900? Even though I think He's part of the conspiracy now too :(17:28
lcukseems reasonable enough to me - better to have badly worded suibmissions there than none at all17:28
lcukthanks for getting involved ;)17:28
RST38hjavis: Are you talking about the hildon-input-method or the Tentacled One?17:28
qwerty12javispedro: He did come, yes, but then he saw the Emo people in my neighbourhood17:29
lcukwhy am i getting servicing requests from everywhere17:29
lcuki do not see any practical benefits to being serviced17:29
qwerty12lcuk: Rumour is that you're good at servicing17:29
javispedroqwerty12: ah, too bad. when is He destroying your hometown?17:29
lcuknormally bacon butties or other things result17:29
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RST38hDoes Emo gray matter qualify as giant octopi food?17:30
qwerty12javispedro: Same time as the N900 is available to buy17:30
lardmanhmm, have to learn some Java17:31
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qwerty12frals: It's not T9, but you may like (from:
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Jaffalardman: Java good.17:32
* javispedro lols at bug #368317:32
fralsqwerty12: ty. That looks cool *reading through the comments* :)17:33
lardmanJaffa: :)17:34
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javispedro"STEPS TO REPRODUCE THE PROBLEM:use the piece of crap" "EXPECTED OUTCOME:actually WORK" the finest bug report ever produced.17:35
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lardmanwho posted that gem?17:35
RST38hjavis: Will be marked invalid.17:36
javispedroit was in 2008 :)17:36
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javispedroi found it while scrapping through archived modest bug reports17:36
glassdoes the particular piece of crap work now17:36
JaffaIt's better in Fremantle17:37
javispedroI can sympathize with the reporter (not because I think modest is crap: I don't). He posted it from the tablet, which means the thing probably crashed twice or thrice before sending him in a bug filer rage.17:37
JaffaOh, that reminds me - I need to raise some enhancements/bug reports/regressions (regarding fetching message bodies)17:37
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Myrttisounds like a bug report I made about an intranet once17:38
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javispedroah, the world of software.17:39
javispedrofinally linus admit "linux is bloated" lol17:39
lupine_85where where? :p17:39
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javispedroaha, found it!17:42
javispedrook, so FiF as I thought.17:42
javispedronow to find out what commit fixed it.17:42
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Woollyhey guys, I'm sure I'm doing something stupid, but I'm getting an ImportError on dbus.service when I try to "import dbus" in the Python interpreter. The python2.5-dbus package is installed.17:44
javispedrosbox or device?17:45
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javispedropython2.5-dbus 0.82-4osso217:46
Woollycourgette:~# dpkg -l | grep python2.5-dbus17:46
Woollyii  python2.5-dbus                                   0.82-4osso2                          Python wrappers around D-Bus.17:46
javispedropython2.5-dbus: /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/dbus/service.py17:47
javispedroso check if that file is corrupted17:47
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Woollynot as far as I can make out17:50
javispedro:( other than reinstalling the package, I don't know what to suggest.17:50
The_Tall1Has anyone tried installing qt-maemo-example on N810?17:51
Woollylet's try a reboot :D17:51
* javispedro wonders if just installing a updated tinymail library will work17:51
javispedroor either backport the individual path, which I already found:
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* infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... oshi--it's the side!17:52
javispedroI knew I shouldn't have trust a computer-thrown coin.17:53
javispedrobackport the patch is it.17:53
lcukhappens in reallife too17:53
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penguinbaitVOTE LCUK for MCC!!17:57
* Myrtti can't vote17:57
lcukplease, dont17:57
lcuki would end up trapped with pb for 6 months - i think i would go insane ;)17:57
lcukhiya penguinbait hows it goin17:58
javispedropb is only one letter away from vb after all :)17:58
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lcukMyrtti, why not18:00
Myrttilcuk: not enough karma18:00
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lcukbut you gain a karma point every time you make a little heart in irc18:01
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lupine_85<3 <3 <3 ?18:01
lcuklupine_85, your hearts are  digitally impressive, but Myrtti has a superior method :D18:01
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qwerty12You "<3" yourself?18:02
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ccookeSurely so, do <3, £>, ♥, ♡ and ❤ score differently?18:02
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asj_wrk-£> is a pretty screwed up heart18:03
penguinbaitnot sure how, but I can copy and paste others18:03
lcukall are fairures behind the perfection of Myrtti :)18:03
javispedro.-""""-.  .-""""-.18:03
asj_wrk-must be after a heard attack18:03
javispedroonly one line :)18:03
lcukffs failures18:03
Myrttino wait18:03
Myrttiwhat was the treshold for being eligble for vote?18:03
ccookeasj_wrk-: I've seen it done, once or twice.18:03
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javispedroMyrtti: 1018:03
lcukMyrtti, you need an email with a token18:04
MyrttiI've got whopping 21 :-D18:04
lcukholy moly!18:04
MyrttiMember since 2007-11-1518:04
lcukthen vote your pants off!18:04
javispedroMyrtti: you should have gotten the email18:04
penguinbaityou only need 10 to vote18:04
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ccookeAt some point, I guess I should actually post on the forum :-)18:04
GeneralAntilleskorbé blew a gasket18:05
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MyrttiI even have the email!18:05
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* Myrtti is surprised18:05
wazdvybory, vybory, kandidaty - ... :D18:06
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javispedroyet another "maemo-is-not-100%-free" thread in tmo18:07
wazdquote from famous russian song bout elections :D18:07
javispedrowazd: :D lol18:07
GeneralAntillesGotta love the zealots.18:08
javispedroyeah, that's the one18:08
GeneralAntillesThey can't see through their blinding rage to realize how much harm they actually do to their own cause.18:08
javispedroi'd agree with his point, but c'mon, it's the bazillionth time this comes up18:08
GeneralAntillesDoes he understand exactly how much money Nokia pours into open source in a year?18:08
wazd"Ok I will not buy n900" - who cares? :)18:09
javispedroGeneralAntilles: either way, every closed source package is like a stab. but I realise is just not possible.18:09
qwerty12wazd: On the whole, it sounds like a relief...18:09
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, sometimes compromises have to be made in order to also make progress.18:09
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ccookewazd: Personally, I'm most amused by the guy saying that Apple is *so much* better, because their all their devices get the latest firmware :-)18:10
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GeneralAntillesccooke, my response to that is always "You haven't ever owned an Apple product, have you?"18:10
javispedroGeneralAntilles: lol :)18:10
ccookeGeneralAntilles: it's not even that - it's the simple fact that people miss the entire point of the tablet line.18:10
* GeneralAntilles spoken as an owner of nearly every platform Apple has dropped in the last 20 years.18:10
wazdccooke: yeah, features that should have been there from the beginning :D18:11
ccookeThey are not mainstream products. They are all, currently, developer prerelease hardware that we're lucky enough to be able to buy18:11
ccooke(the n900 might be mainstream, depending on how Nokia treat it *after* release)18:11
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wazdI think that Symbian theme maker guy will blow his head off after seeing Fremantle theme template :D18:12
* ccooke has personally always thought of them as the equivalent of running Debian unstable.18:12
ccookewazd: oh? It's that good... or that bad?18:13
Khertanhum ... troll ...18:13
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wazdccooke: well, it's way more complex18:13
wazdccooke: waaaay moooore :)18:13
wazdccooke: it's good and understandable, but there are a lot of things :)18:13
GeneralAntillesI say we nominate Khertan as our neighborhood troll killer.18:14
Macerdamn NL subs18:14
Macerlearn english!18:14
Khertanif you want a phone which you can compare to Debian Stable you should try the Nokia 321018:14
KhertanGeneralAntilles: héhé18:14
X-FadeMacer: Well at least there are subs and it isn't dubbed ;)18:14
qwerty12X-Fade: Bleh, scrap Dutch and make English your official language ;P18:15
* javispedro watches gnu patch fsck the source tree18:15
X-Fadeqwerty12: I'm all for it.18:15
javispedrooh my. why can't we be friends??18:15
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X-Fadeqwerty12: But it almost is already.18:15
MacerX-Fade: haha18:15
Macereither one sucks18:15
qwerty12And, while you're at it, you may as well rename the entire country to "Holland"18:16
Macerthey were hardcoded too18:16
X-Fadeqwerty12: Sometimes I see ads on tv that are entirely in English.18:16
Woollydang :( does anyone know why an import dbus would fail, even with the python2.5-dbus package installed?18:16
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ccookeKhertan: I used to run Debian unstable all the time. The point is: It's stable enough to run for general use, but every now and then there's an upheaval.18:16
Macerso i have to wait a whopping 2 mins to download another one18:16
X-Fadeqwerty12: On a Dutch channel.18:16
Macertime is money18:16
qwerty12X-Fade: Heh18:16
Maceri know. wtf. you guys all speak english anyways18:16
Macerwhy not just ditch dutch18:17
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ccookeKhertan: I wouldn't call that trollish at all - it's simply how I personally think of things.18:17
Macerstill have your own plans for world domination?18:17
Myrttihaha, I still can't believe I had enough karma to vote18:17
X-FadeMacer: Dutch language is growing. I have no clue why :)18:17
javispedrodamn line endings.18:17
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MacerX-Fade: :) that makes two of us18:18
qwerty12X-Fade: Foreigners learning how to say "Where can I find the Red Light District" does not mean it's growing :p18:18
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ccooke(hell, I ran servers (that I didn't care about and provided no SLA for) on Unstable; never got caught out, but it could have happened)18:18
Myrtti"Where can I find good weed"18:18
Macerthe tourist handbook for visiting NL?18:19
X-Fadeqwerty12: From central station, go straight on, turn left ;)18:19
* qwerty12 jots this down18:19
X-Fadeqwerty12: But hurry as it will be closed down soon.18:19
lcukMyrtti, surely you mean medicinal marijuana18:20
qwerty12Thanks, X-Fade, for slashing my hopes in half :(18:20
Myrttilcuk: no, I actually don't mean anything, I've never smoked anything and don't plan to18:20
akshayHi ! I want to cross compile(for arm target) a Qt application on maemo 4 sdk which uses poppler for pdf rendering. Is it possible? In other words, is libpoppler-qt4-dev available for maemo?18:20
X-Fadeqwerty12: Before you are of legal age, it is gone anyway ;)18:20
lcukahhhh you like your baked muffins ;) i get ya18:21
qwerty12X-Fade: Like the timezone difference, my age increases by one ;)18:21
lcukakshay, download the qt sdk and see if its there18:21
lcuki saw you asked this morning or maybe yesterday too18:21
lcukgrab it and see is the simplest18:21
javispedrolibpoppler-qt4 is not in the sdk repos, but I don't know about the qt repos18:22
* GeneralAntilles complains some more about Apple taking forever to put 4 sticks of RAM in a damn computer.18:23
qwerty12Nope, Maemo builds of libpoppler (which is only in Extras) have it removed18:23
akshaylcuk: I have made that application using Qt SDK which runs on x86. But I want to compile it for arm (n810).18:23
ccookeGeneralAntilles: have they done it, then?18:23
javispedroah, so it's in extras :)18:23
javispedrothen you have a change to beg the maintainer for qt4 support :)18:23
GeneralAntillesccooke, shouldn't have built-to-order.18:23
ccookeGeneralAntilles: ah18:23
javispedroGeneralAntilles: they can't find a swiss nun for the job18:24
lcukakshay, the qt sdk in scratchbox? or the qt sdk in windows/linux generic?18:24
akshaylibpoppler-qt4 does not come as part of Qt sdk. It is a seperate package and I could not find it for maemo.18:24
lcukahhh qwerty knows it all18:24
akshaylcuk: for windows18:24
GeneralAntillesDamn thing still has to ship to the Apple Store before it comes to me.18:24
lcukGeneralAntilles, stepping over to the darkside and getting an ipod shuffle finally?18:25
GeneralAntillesWaiting and waiting on my replacement Mac Pro.18:25
akshaylcuk: will any debian package compiled for arm run on n810?18:25
lardmanwow, that OTR bug on the Telepathy bugtracker is a bit fraught18:26
luke-jrwhy should Apple put 4 sticks of RAM in a computer? O.o18:26
javispedroGeneralAntilles: ring them for your free RDF session18:26
luke-jrsurely as RAM requirements increase, the stick capacity does too?18:26
akshaylcuk: bcoz this libpoppler-qt4 is available as debian package18:26
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, because I friggin' told them to.18:26
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lcukakshay, not generically, but depending on the dependencies can sometimes be recompiled and used on maemo without alteration18:26
* lcuk did liblo like that18:26
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, sadly it comes with the computer.18:26
javispedroakshay: ask the maemo packager to build it with the qt bindings. or help him to do it.18:27
GeneralAntillesand the one in the  old 1.8GHz G5 I'm on now is expired.18:27
akshayjavispedro: okay, thank you18:27
javispedroGAN: you're complaining, so it's clearly broken.18:27
qwerty12It's a Mac; what else would it be? ;)18:28
javispedro(I meant the builtin RDF ;) )18:29
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* javispedro gets some ugly mail from tmo and uses it to test his new "modest" mod.18:29
fiferboyIt is extremely rough, too much hard-coding, not enough functionality, wrong column sizes, no preview box18:29
javispedrodelete delete delete18:29
lcukw0000t fiferboy \o/18:30
qwerty12Oh, fiferboy, did you get osso-xterm running?18:30
fiferboyIt is a start, but basing it on HildonTouchSelector forces all the columns to be the same width18:30
fiferboyqwerty12: Yep, just needed a proper network connection.  Thanks for the tip18:30
lcukok, great start.  as you say there are things needed and things wrong, but its a start18:31
lardmanzerojay: ping18:31
qwerty12fiferboy: Was this hard to come by, in Canada? :p Just joking, glad to hear it :)18:31
fiferboyqwerty12: Nah, it is my virtualbox image.  It doesn't like it when I switch networks while it is asleep18:31
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lcukfiferboy, would the bold/italic/underline items be better as ticks18:31
lcuksince you can have multi18:32
lcukor is that impractical using the current dialog method you tried18:32
fiferboylcuk: Good point.  Remove regular, add underline, make it multi-selection18:32
javispedroi would put on the right side along with a "Save" button18:32
javispedros/put/put them18:32
lcukmost important, needs an accept button :D18:32
lcukand then you basically have a dialog18:32
fiferboyjavispedro: I removed the "Save" button for the screenshot so I could actually see font names :)18:32
lcukfontname, fontsize, styleticks ??18:33
javispedroyeah. but if you put the font styles as HildonChecks above the Save button... it may work.18:33
lcukthere is a problem then - is the font size changable18:33
fiferboylcuk: I am building it like HildonDateSelector, so you can add it to your own dialog18:33
* lcuk nods18:33
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fiferboyFont size is not editable :(18:34
fiferboyIn this version18:34
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lcuklol they need a font select dialog18:34
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lcukchicken and egg problem :D18:34
javispedro# huh? -sh: huh?: not found18:35
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javispedroconfusing focus again.18:35
fiferboySo it could be:  a list of font families (queried from the system), a multi-select list of style properties, and a list of font sizes with an entry to override selection18:35
lardmanbeer time!18:35
lardmancu all later18:35
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lcukcya lardman|gone18:36
fiferboyOh, and a preview box18:36
javispedroyay. finally modest deletes emails.18:36
fiferboyI'll definitely have to stop basing it on HildonTouchSelector18:36
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javispedrook, one thing off my todo list.18:36
lcukfifer, then we will ahve to find a method that plays nicely18:37
fiferboyIf only wazd (poke) could come up with a nicer interface...18:37
* lcuk agrees18:37
lcukthere was a guy in tmo yesterday saying he  could design uis18:37
lcukin exchange for thanks18:37
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fiferboylcuk: I'll probably just inherit GtkWidget so I can add layout and touch selectors18:37
javispedrohehe. so the libhildon-widgets-they-forgot-to-add-for-unknown-reasons widget library will come to exist after all :)18:38
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fiferboyjavispedro: Maybe.  I'll have to see if I can get it fully functional18:39
fiferboyI'm calling it "pannable-font-selector" to avoid stepping on any hildon/maemo toes18:39
javispedrolibhwtftafur .18:39
javispedroi love libs having "wtf" in the name :)18:39
* wazd has an idea for home countdown18:40
javispedrofiferboy: good job18:40
fiferboywazd: Somehow I am not surprised18:40
SpeedEvilwazd: does it involve a track by Europe?18:40
fiferboySpeedEvil: That would only happen on your *final* countdown...18:41
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coldbootDo you guys know how to add certificates so you can connect to PEAP with MSCHAPv2?18:41
carloscesaSpeedEvil, hello!18:41
qwerty12...with a rendition from fiferboy himself18:42
fiferboyqwerty12: On fife?18:42
qwerty12Sure, if that takes your fancy18:42
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carloscesaSpeedEvil, Do you remember that problem with my N810 I mentioned you last week?! It turn off after some seconds, etc.. ?18:43
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* infobot flips a coin in the air and it is... tails!18:45
javispedrotails day today. playing with ogl is it.18:46
SpeedEvilyes, I think so.18:46
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Khertanbye ... see you later18:48
javispedrosee you18:48
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bobbydjust ordered my n900 :)18:57
Corsacpre-ordered you mean?18:58
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Meizirkkihi PB19:14
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bobbydCorsac: yeah yeah :)19:15
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carloscesaSpeedEvil, so, it's was not related to flash memory. The problem was related with no-retu-wd R&D flag19:22
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carloscesaSpeedEvil, After recap the first time the problem appear, was just after flashing the device with this rd-flag19:23
RST38hmoo penguinbait19:25
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penguinbaitits baaah baah19:31
wazdzomg PB is here :)19:31
qwerty12it's penguin hunting time19:31
penguinbait<---------- ducks19:31
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wazdyou can't trick us, you're a penguin, not ducks :D19:32
penguinbaitquack quack19:32
penguinbaitmoo moo19:32
penguinbaitbaah baah19:32
penguinbaitwhat the hell sound does a penguin make?19:33
Stskeepsfapping sound when walking?19:34
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qwerty12I'm not googling "fapping sound"...19:34
* Stskeeps glares at the closed source packages in maemo thread19:36
javispedroit's a big one!19:36
RST38hjavis: Have you made use of that code btw?19:37
javispedroRST38h: not yet......19:37
* javispedro hides19:37
javispedrowe got the ogl es sample to work yesterday (with compositor on)19:38
javispedroso I am dumping some code on it right now :)19:39
RST38hCan I have it? =)19:39
* RST38h needs hw scaling for Maemo519:39
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javispedroi'm cleaning it a bit, but you can get the mess that worked in tmo :)19:40
javispedro(removing printfs and all that :P)19:40
Stskeepsjavispedro: on what device?19:40
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RST38hjavis: URL? =)19:41
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javispedroRST38h: source19:42
javispedroand picture19:42
crashanddie_lcuk: want us to start looking for a job together?19:43
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Khertan_n810Hi again19:45
javispedronot my device of course :)19:46
Khertan_n810someone know which range in milliG can mesure the n900 ?19:46
javispedroRST38h: for hw scaling, I would look first at the pvr2D functions, and decide if they're any good19:46
RST38hjavis: looking19:46
Khertan_n810~pi ng19:47
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Khertan_n810noone know ?19:48
coldbootIt seems when I install a certificate on the device, it merely installs a certificate authority.19:49
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coldbootI still have no certificates in the dropdown menu.19:49
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Kht_n810_2lcuk ?19:51
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lcukKht_n810_2,  -1000..100019:51
lcukif im not here i cannot answer :P19:52
lcukcrashanddie_ mmn what happened?19:52
Stskeepsoh boy19:52
Kht_n810_21G only ? not more ?19:52
Stskeepsmoblin for atom phones19:52
Kht_n810_21G is gravity19:52
lcukgives ranges19:52
Kht_n810_2yep i see it19:52
Kht_n810_2thought it was only example when device is put on a table19:53
Kht_n810_2so only gravity apply here19:53
lcukshould we add an entry for use when skydiving?19:53
lcukbut you must beta test it first19:53
Kht_n810_2and i see your example for a liqbase funtion :)19:53
* lcuk nods19:54
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* lcuk enjoys smooooooooooooooooooooooth accelerometer readings19:54
javispedrox86 phones. hell, unleashed.19:54
Kht_n810_2i think shaking the device could give greater value :)19:54
lcukKht_n810_2, it most likely can19:54
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lcukand does19:54
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Kht_n810_2but 1G isn t really accurate ... how to mesure when down19:55
lcukbut ive never scientifically ascertained the ranges19:55
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lcukmmm down where19:55
Kht_n810_2there is already the gravity so already at max value19:56
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Kht_n810_2doing a movement from up to down19:56
lcukby the difference in readings19:56
Kht_n810_2couln t be mesure with only 0 to 1G mesure19:56
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Kht_n810_2hum ...19:57
lcuki know it goes beyond the -1000..1000 range, but its normal parameters when rolling it around are there19:57
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lcuknote it goes beyond the range19:58
lcuk(range was a bit more than the -1000 stuff19:58
Captain_Picardlol? nokia comming out with atom phone?19:58
javispedronow wait for the actual x86 phones19:58
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* javispedro can't wait for a phone with BIOS19:59
Kht_n810_2phonr using atom ? powerfull phone with 10minutes of autonomy ?19:59
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johnsqjavispedro: xpphone and viliv 5s 3g are there already20:00
Captain_Picardpowerfull phone with with 30-40wats of power usage20:00
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dropcodeanyone alive?20:00
Kht_n810_2dropcode: no20:00
dropcodeheh :(20:00
javispedrojohnsq: well, OQO was first then :P20:00
SDPI see dead people.20:00
javispedroeven tho I don't remember if it had a gsm radio20:01
Kht_n810_2javispedro: there is20:01
dropcodeI'm trying to get python purple installed in linux but I'm pretty new. Not sure how to go about it.20:01
Kht_n810_2apt-get install libpurple20:01
dropcodei'm not in debian/dont have apt-get20:02
dropcodeits a shell account20:02
Kht_n810_2or apt-get install python-purple20:02
Kht_n810_2can t do nothing for you20:02
SDPyum install libpurple ?:)20:02
Kht_n810_2wget / make20:02
* Kht_n810_2 is going back to code20:04
luke-jrXMPP only ftw20:04
Kht_n810_2thx lcuk20:04
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dropcodethe page says I need debhelper and cdbs does that mean i need to be in debian to get it working?20:05
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coldbootOkay, adding wifi crypto certificates to the n810 and n900 doesn't actually work.20:07
coldbootWhen you add a certificate, it shows up in the "Certificate Authority" list, but there's actually no certificate to select from the dropdown.20:07
luke-jrcoldboot: maybe you're not adding an actual cert? :p20:07
coldbootSo when you try to connect to a PEAP wifi access point, you can't select a certificate.20:07
coldbootIt works on other mobile devices.20:07
luke-jrspeaking of which, does anyone have any suggestions for a good router? :p20:08
coldbootLinksys WRT300N.20:08
luke-jrsomething with a decent amount of flash/disk space and Linux supported20:09
coldbootIt can be hacked with DD-WRT.20:09
johnsqluke-jr: pc + wireless card20:09
coldbootNo, that's a waste of money and electricity.20:09
luke-jrjohnsq: something that will last reasonably long on a UPS :p20:09
Stskeepscoldboot: it doesn't? well that explains all the PEAP stuff20:09
coldbootluke-jr: Get anything from Linksys that you like, that works with DD-WRT.20:09
luke-jrcoldboot: hacked with illegal software doesn't count20:09
luke-jrwhich disqualifies Linksys AFAIK20:09
johnsqcoldboot: netbook is the same price and same power20:09
coldbootluke-jr: DD-WRT isn't illegal...20:09
luke-jrcoldboot: the broadcom drivers it uses are20:10
coldbootluke-jr: I don't think it's really a big deal if it is. Nobody's going to care.20:10
coldbootjohnsq: Can you get a netbook for $90?20:10
luke-jrit's a big deal since I want 2.6.N features :p20:10
luke-jrand I do care.20:10
coldbootPractically, nothing bad will happen to you if you're using illegal broadcom drivers, if that's even true.20:11
johnsqcoldboot: ebay20:11
luke-jrcoldboot: except I won't be free to hack up my own wifi protocols20:11
coldbootluke-jr: Well yeah, I guess you need a computer then.20:11
coldbootluke-jr: Are you actually going to do that, or you want to be able to do it in the future?20:11
luke-jrcoldboot: I don't use software I'm not free to modify.20:12
coldbootStskeeps: What's "all the PEAP stuff" in that context?20:12
Stskeepscoldboot: there's a horde of PEAP bugs and people complaining about it, i think20:12
coldbootStskeeps: Ah yes, that would explain it.20:12
* luke-jr mutters about BASH breaking backward compatibility from 3 to 420:13
luke-jrbut I guess that's what a major version bump means20:13
luke-jroh well20:13
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luke-jrat least the new way is documented20:13
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coldbootStskeeps: Great, so it doesn't actually work.20:16
Stskeepswpa supplicant ICD plugin20:16
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coldbootAt work they just changed from WEP2 to PEAP, so now all of our devices are locked out of the network.20:17
coldbootStskeeps: What?20:17
* javispedro hides again20:17
javispedrocoldboot: I wrote a icd plugin that talks with wpa_supplicant using dbus20:17
coldbootjavispedro: dbus is interprocess communication, right?20:18
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coldbootWhat is wpa_supplicant?20:18
coldbootjavispedro: In the big picture, what does this plugin let you do?20:18
javispedrocoldboot: i use it daily to connect to my uni (PAP) network20:19
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javispedrowpa_supplicant is what the rest of gnu/linux distros use as wpa supplicant (to connect to wpa networks)20:19
coldbootjavispedro: Where PAP is similar to PEAP?20:19
coldbootjavispedro: Do you think I could use this plugin?20:19
coldbootI added certificates successfully, and Maemo even says that they've already been added, but they're not being populated in the certificate dropdown in connection properties.20:20
javispedroyou could, but  I warn you may found more bugs than in the nokia wlan-security one. at least, this one is OSS.20:20
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javispedro(bugs in my code, not wpa_supplicant's of course)20:21
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t_s_oheh, intel yanked the "oh, and its also a phone" move that nokia did in their N900 presentation video20:23
lcukwell since ofono is a collaborative effort between intel/nokia, was that really a surprise20:23
t_s_oseems intel is aiming atom and moblin straight down the same path as nokia is heading with maemo. arm+maemo vs atom+moblin, fight!20:24
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t_s_olcuk: last time i checked, N900 do not make use of ofono...20:24
luke-jrIMO, the "oh, and its also a phone" was lame after Nokia spent months+ denying it20:25
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t_s_owell, they want to play up the computer angle and play down the phone angle, as its coming from a "phone" company...20:25
t_s_obut everyone seems to be focusing on the phone part, seeing everything else as a nice "extra"20:26
luke-jrthey should make it more computer-like then :/20:26
* Stskeeps likes the maemo view that a phone is just another app or connectivity method20:26
luke-jrit's frustrating that Sharp made some really nice handheld computers years ago, but nobody bothers to make updated variants now20:26
t_s_oheh, sharp. there is the netwalker now...20:27
luke-jryeah, but reviews suck20:27
luke-jrand apparently it's  huge20:27
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luke-jrif it was the same SL-C3200 size or such, maybe20:28
luke-jrif it had Bluetooth too, even better20:28
luke-jrif it had 3G or such, totally awesome20:28
t_s_obluetooth was in the bottom of the hype curve then, and gsm data was still by the minute...20:28
luke-jrthe PC-Z1 isn't out for another month or so I think20:29
* javispedro should probably get to finish the instructions of libicd wpa_supplicant plugin.20:29
t_s_owhen sharp was selling their transformable handhelds...20:29
javispedroand see what can be done in n900, because it's not going to have PAP support....20:29
luke-jrt_s_o: I don't need transformable, I'm happy to stick with clamshell mode20:29
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SpeedEvilyou mean screen goes all the way back to flat against the back of the keyb?20:30
SpeedEvil= transformable/20:30
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t_s_oif so, netwalker should be right up your alley, think umid with arm, it seems larger then it is...20:30
luke-jrSpeedEvil: no, it rotates20:30
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luke-jrt_s_o: PC-Z1 lacks Bluetooth, 3G, and is too big, and according to reviews, has a terrible kb20:30
t_s_oSpeedEvil: think tablet laptop pc, rotateable screen20:30
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t_s_oluke-jr: mifi?20:32
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luke-jrt_s_o: if available here, that would mitigate the problem slightly20:33
t_s_onot sure where "here" would be...20:34
crashanddie_luke-jr: nothing "lacks" 3G20:35
* SpeedEvil holds up a lump of cheese that does.20:35
crashanddie_it's like saying "It's a great car, but it only goes up to 130mph"20:35
t_s_ostill, i think sharp is overpricing it badly...20:36
SpeedEvilhow much is the netwalker?20:36
t_s_ogoing by, around $50020:37
t_s_oerr, make that 570...20:37
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t_s_ohow it got that high from the ca 470 price that engadget calculated based on its yen price i dont know...20:38
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glass_lacking both bt and 3g is a big lacking though20:39
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glass_"it's a great car but you can only drive it on asphalt"20:39
lcukt_s_o, no, but it certainly indicated direction20:40
RST38hAnyone feeling like comparing a couple of straces?20:40
RST38hMaybe there is something in them I missed20:40
coldbootCan you ssh to a device through the usb cable?20:40
t_s_oi wonder if bluetooth is not really cared about outside of europe...20:40
coldbootWe use it in North America for cell phone headsets.20:41
coldbootThat's about it.20:41
coldbootWe don't have bluetooth cameras or anything.20:41
SpeedEvilBT cameras are vanishingly unavailable20:41
SpeedEvilother than the expensive ones.20:41
glass_t_s_o: what it's useful for is for getting on the internet in the boondocks via your phone20:41
glass_or rather, finnish forests20:41
SpeedEvil(or at least were the last time I looked about 9 mo ago)20:41
t_s_onot surprised as the bandwidth is supplises is outstripped by the image sizes produced by the high rez chips...20:42
GeneralAntillesYeah, but it's got an 800MHz Cortex A8 and 512MB of RAM.20:42
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SpeedEvilt_s_o: I don't much care - I want to be able to take a pic and stream to BT. at least at 2-3M that's not unreasonable.20:43
t_s_oglass_: and for nations where the operators put a premium on that use, under the "tethering" label, and locks down the firmware so that you can do it unless you pay?20:43
SpeedEvilNo, you're not going to be shooting video.20:43
glass_t_s_o: well, even then theres those who pay. business users etc20:43
glass_still better than nothing20:43
t_s_oi worry that todays media thinking is to computer centric, that is anything not a "PC" is a "halo" device, connected by way of usb or maybe wifi...20:44
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SpeedEvilLots more use for BT in camera than that.20:45
SpeedEvilPrinting to BT printer, over phone, ...20:46
t_s_ohmm, i wonder if celio could make a redfly style device that could run on a couple of AA's and have a eyepiece...20:46
SpeedEvilt_s_o: I have one slightly in design.20:46
t_s_oSpeedEvil: again the pc "halo". first download to computer, then process the image there, then send it of to printer...20:46
SpeedEvilVNC over BNP eyeglass display20:47
bobbyddoes anyone know a good source of breaking information about which carriers are offering the n900? Maybe just the carrier's own forums?20:47
SpeedEvilAlso - you may not care in some countries.20:47
t_s_othe printer, the camera, the phone, the dap/dmp, all connect to the pc and the pc acts as the "gateway" or hub...20:47
SpeedEvilAs secondary vendors are offering them with contract and subsidy20:47
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bobbydsorry, I meant to add, "in the UK" :)20:48
SpeedEvilbobbyd: google n900 mobile20:48
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Myrttibobbyd: atleast t-mobile and voda have it20:49
SpeedEvilbobbyd: there are a couple of stores offfering on contract subsidised20:49
bobbydSpeedEvil: ok, just wanted to check if there were less public, more informative sources20:49
t_s_oi think there was a recent thread on about uk carriers and N90020:49
bobbydMyrtti: yep, I've pre-ordered through Vodafone, just want to check if a better deal comes up before it ships20:49
MyrttiI'm personally intrested if O2 has it20:49
SpeedEvilyou mean through mobilephoneshop?20:49
Myrttias I'm outside UK, I can't check their idiotic webshop20:49
SpeedEvilOr have voda directly20:49
Myrttithe idiotic webshop of which the developers should be boiled, hanged, chopped, roasted on a spit and given to dogs. or something20:50
t_s_oSpeedEvil: got a link to those eyeglass displays?20:50
SpeedEvilt_s_o: I haven't finished making it yet.20:51
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t_s_oah :P20:51
javispedro it now says "N900".20:51
SpeedEvilt_s_o: something like a 640*480 virtual display in the corner of your eye20:51
Myrttiif it isn't evident, I hate Those who are from outside UK, know immediately why if they open that link20:51
bobbydI'm not sure if that place will actually be able to get units, but I'll try20:52
t_s_oSpeedEvil: ok, i was just wondering what that BNP stood for...20:52
SpeedEvilt_s_o: Bluetooth networking Profile20:52
SpeedEvilBNEP I think is the more common acronym20:52
t_s_ook, thanks20:52
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t_s_ohmm, not exactly cortex, but buglabs seems to have made a new bugbase, now with wifi and bluetooth...20:54
udovdhMyrtti, Unfortunately, we are unable to sell to countries outside the UK?20:54
Myrttiudovdh: bingo20:54
udovdhso much for open markets etc?20:54
udovdhbut it may be their own choice20:55
udovdhcall them lazy?20:55
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ccookeJust seen a link on
Myrttiudovdh: so much for serving their own customers who are abroad, people in UK that need to use foreign proxies, or people who plan for moving to UK20:55
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ccookeApparently, 92% of the people looking at the n900 buy it.20:55
ccookeah, no.20:55
udovdhthat is also an issue yes. they have a very quick way of deciding whether they want your business...20:56
ccookemisleading text. Phew.20:56
ccooke92% of the people who buy *something* after looking at the n900 buy it20:56
udovdhccooke, that means most buyers are determined20:56
udovdhwhy look at it when you know you need the device?20:56
SpeedEvilMyrtti: searching o2 and the o2 shop for n900 reveal nothing20:56
ccookeudovdh: it means people are generally going straight there.20:57
udovdhalso, yes20:57
SpeedEvilAlso - O2 = iphone ATM20:58
udovdhbut the n900 is a phone, right?20:58
ccookeudovdh: yes.20:58
udovdhso I don't need it20:58
udovdhthe n810 I own is good enough I hope20:58
udovdhThe company phone is the phone20:58
* simula is itching for his n90020:58
udovdhdon't want to mix their and my stuff20:59
* ccooke has two n900s on order...20:59
ccookeone for me, one for the wife :-)20:59
udovdh1 to disassemble?20:59
udovdhof course20:59
ccookeAlthough she understands that whichever one arrives first is mine ;-)20:59
udovdhMyrtti, try,KB=Companion,question=ref%28user%29:str%28Mobile%29,t=Contact_us,&cm_mmc=Navigation-_-Footer-_-ContactO221:00
udovdhto contact them?21:00
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Myrttiudovdh: / twitter / email tried. I'm just frustrated and need to vent :-( nothing happens, ever21:01
SpeedEvilI was surprised to find the vodafone forums not totally useless.21:01
SpeedEvilJust mostly.21:01
udovdhMyrtti, interesting...21:02
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SpeedEvilThough vodafones website is a sick joke - most pages in the 'my account' bit are broken most of the time21:05
SpeedEvilincluding 'contact us'21:05
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SpeedEviland they 'don't support' linux by blocking FF on linux from the coverage maps.21:06
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bobbydnow I just need to find a way to route all my traffic over http and I can avoid Vodafone blocking all my IM traffic :)21:18
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bobbydWnt: :)21:21
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Wntbobbyd: you can run openvpn over that21:22
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bobbydok, later21:24
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Stskeepstags on closed source packages: korbe vs common sense, korbe vs the world21:42
penguinbaitVOTE ~~~21:42
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javispedroVOTE korbe21:43
Stskeepsi think i would actually vote in korbe instead of penguinbait, but yeah ;)21:43
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Anunakinpenguinbait got my vote21:44
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tfogalHi all -- is there a list online anywhere that has a list of devices running Maemo?21:44
lcuk770 n800 n810 n90021:44
Stskeepsofficial Maemo or unofficial implementors of APIs?21:44
tfogalI'm basically looking for a list of `if you buy this device <X>, you can get Maemo running on it without breaking it, and then develop your own app on top of Maemo'21:45
cosmo..and i think it runs on also other h/w such as beagleboard and x86 pc's21:45
RST38hwho is the korbe guy?21:45
tfogallcuk: thanks.  so all nokia right now?21:46
luke-jrtfogal: Maemo is pretty much specific to Nokia.21:46
luke-jrtfogal: they don't license it to anyone else21:46
StskeepsRST38h: 'Closed source packages in Maemo' thread21:46
tfogalwait, what?  I thought this stuff was all open source.21:46
luke-jrMer is attempt to recycle the open source bits21:46
GeneralAntillesIt's about 80% open source.21:46
GeneralAntillesClosed source stuff is the differentiation on top.21:47
lcukand about 10% bacon21:47
fiferboylcuk, javispedro, wazd, et al:
fiferboyBetter, worse, suggestions?21:47
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: and drivers21:47
Stskeepsluke-jr: drivers are differentiation but yeah21:47
RST38hSts: ah, what a cutie21:47
luke-jrI don't mind the differentiation crap. I can remove that :p21:47
luke-jrthe drivers are the biggie to me21:47
javispedrofiferboy: still mising the "Save"/"Done" button ;)21:48
luke-jrStskeeps: oh, I read that wrong...21:48
fiferboyjavispedro: Still not width optimized ;)21:48
luke-jrStskeeps: not per dictionary definition of differentiation21:49
fiferboyI need to figure out how to show enough of the font name, and still have style and size in there21:49
javispedrofiferboy: yeah, but fsck the guidelines on that point and put it in the corner21:49
Stskeepsluke-jr: true, true21:49
lcuklooks more and more like a microsoft dialog21:49
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* luke-jr wonders if it was a bad idea to use "You've Got To Eat Your Vegetables" for a ringtone21:50
lcukrather than finger friendly its heavy on the eyes im thinking21:50
fiferboylcuk: Suggestions?21:50
lcukjust pondering21:50
lcukdo font sizes need to be a whole column21:50
Stskeepswhat was the classical closed source packages that people were very activistic about getting OSS'ed again?21:50
lcuk(<) 14 (>)21:50
lcukclick number bobs up scroller21:51
lcukor +- to adjust21:51
javispedroStskeeps: err.... everything!! everything!!21:51
luke-jrStskeeps: BME and gpsdriver21:51
fiferboylcuk: There isn't really a good number selector any more without using a touch selector21:51
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* lcuk is thinking out loud of course - you have this implemted which is 1000% further 21:52
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keesjdid anybody have a real look at usb-host on n900 or a prototype?21:52
lcukwhat is a good number selector..21:52
luke-jrlcuk: I use a die.21:52
SpeedEvilfiferboy: I would suggest nuking the middle column, and making it a [i] [B] ... buttons on the 'select a font' bar21:52
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fiferboyjavispedro: With "Done" button:
SpeedEvilfiferboy: also maybe nuke the word 'font' in preview21:53
javispedrofiferboy: that's why I was telling you to ignore the guidelines on that point21:53
fiferboySpeedEvil: That is the dialog window title, I can't really do anything in there21:54
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SpeedEvilhmm  - point - tired.21:54
fiferboyjavispedro: I can only put dialog buttons on the right-hand side, and they can't (I think) be toggle buttons21:54
woglindehi fiferboy21:54
fiferboywoglinde: Hey21:54
* javispedro was thinking of a more hackish solution, but you're right either way >:)21:55
fiferboyIf I take the entry portion away from the size column I can save a lot of space, but then the user can't select half/odd sizes21:55
RST38hfiferboy: font names are not visible21:55
fiferboyRST38h: That's what I am trying to fix :)21:55
fiferboyI need to save width21:55
RST38hfiferboy: drop the middle column21:56
airtonarantesI've just installed maemo-mapper on n810 and I'm getting SEGMENTATIN FAULT, but my friend has also N810 and maemo mapper works fine. I've searched about this, but no success.21:56
luke-jrairtonarantes: Diablo?21:56
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RST38hfiferboy: write font names in the same font, include extra entries for bold/talic/etc21:56
airtonarantesluke-jr, yes21:56
fiferboyRST38h: Just like osso-xterm :)21:56
RST38hfiferboy: more or less but prettier21:57
RST38hfiferboy: make font size scroller more narrow, you only need two digits there21:57
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lcukfiferboy, ^21:57
fiferboyRST38h: Using HildonTouchSelectorEntry forces more width21:57
airtonarantesluke-jr, have you ever you got this?21:58
RST38hfiferboy: ignore hildon stuff, it is wasteful21:58
luke-jrairtonarantes: works for me21:58
luke-jror did when I used it21:58
fiferboylcuk: Nice use of liqbase :D21:58
RST38hfiferboy: I would even ifnore this awful dialog box layout where you waste the right column21:58
lcukthats the real use of liqbase21:58
lcuki draw and sketch ideas in context21:58
lcukthen i try to make them21:58
fiferboylcuk: I use paper :(21:59
lcukliqbase is faster than paper :P21:59
fiferboylcuk: I heard that somewhere :)21:59
lcuknow - we need a less busy screen than the one started21:59
SpeedEvillcuk: But can you start fires with it/21:59
lcukyeah SpeedEvil21:59
SpeedEvillcuk: And does it support origami?21:59
lcuki just leave the bacon under the grill for too long21:59
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lcukshame the font list itself cannot show the fonts22:02
lcukso no need for preview really22:02
fiferboyThe preview, I think, is the least of the problems.  It doesn't take any width away from the name22:03
fiferboyBut you are right, it would be nice to show the font in the name list22:03
fiferboyActually, that should be possible.  osso-xterm does it22:03
SpeedEvilDoesn't work well for dingbats though :)22:03
fiferboySpeedEvil: Good point!22:04
RST38hfiferboy: can you decrease font size in those scrollers?22:04
fiferboyRST38h: More than likely22:04
lcukare you sure the track won't bend?22:04
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RST38hfiferboy: try decreasing the font sizes then, that should help...well somewhat22:05
fiferboyRST38h: True.  I can use SmallSystemFont and see if that helps22:05
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woglindejo khertan22:09
Khertanyo woglinde22:10
* lcuk swings round and chops off Khertan's head22:10
Khertanhum ...22:10
* lcuk then holds n900 steady and hears amazing swooshing sabre sounds coming from it ;)22:11
fiferboyAh, it looks like HildonTouchSelector isn't smart enough to request the proper amount of space - it needs to have extra space requested22:11
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Myrttilcuk: that reminds me of for some reason22:12
lcukthe nose picker!22:12
RST38hfor really long nosed aliens22:12
lcukRST38h, look in the background22:12
RST38hah, that one22:13
lcukobama oozes coolness22:13
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Khertanlcuk do you have been able to test it ?22:13
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lcukyou have it programmed to go off based on aboslute position22:14
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lcukit swooshes and swipes when held still22:14
lcukand not based on movement22:14
lcukdifferent orientations give different sounds as expected22:14
lcukyou need to store the difference in the values and make noises based on those22:15
Khertanso i didn't understand how it s works22:15
lcukno i know22:15
Khertanit does give at the moment acceleration differences22:15
lcukif its held at say 45deg it gives a fixed value22:15
Khertanah ok22:15
lcukif i move it to 40deg it gives a different fixed value22:15
Khertani ve understand it like that22:16
lcukthe difference in values over time is how fast it is moving22:16
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Khertanso it ll be easy to modify it ... just as you say store differences22:16
* lcuk nods22:16
lcukcool tho!22:16
Khertani ve a modified version on my nit which doesn't require gtk anymore :)22:16
lcukfirst app with sound ive played with (barring mediaplayer)22:17
fralslightsaber? ;D22:17
Khertanjust need to add an interface :)22:17
Khertanfrals: yep :)22:17
lcukthe REAL purpose for an accelerometer22:17
Khertanthe ONLY REAL purpose22:17
fralsawesome :D i still remember installing that on my n95 and playing with... everyone went "wtf how can your phone do that" :D22:17
RST38hAny SQL experts?22:18
woglinderst maybee22:18
konttori__RST38h: I am pretty good.22:19
konttori__what do you need?22:19
RST38hI am selecting data from a column that is incomplete22:19
RST38hi.e. for some rows it has no data22:19
Khertanhop ... project registered at garage :)22:19
RST38hFor these rows, I am not getting any data at all22:19
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RST38hInstead, I would like to get some default value for this column22:20
RST38hIs it possible?22:20
lcukwhats the select stmt22:20
Khertanlcuk ... i ll try tomorrow to add an ui ... and send it quickly to autobuilder :)22:20
konttori__you can set a default value in the create table statement22:20
konttori__(or do alter table later)22:20
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woglindedefault only in table definition22:20
woglindenot select22:20
lcukor update query if the definition is already correct22:20
RST38hThe problem is that rows in T do not always exist22:21
konttori__RST38h: which sql database?22:21
timelessquake 3 is nice w/ accelerometer for controls22:21
RST38hSo I need to make them optional22:21
RST38hkonttori: Postgress22:21
fralstimeless: video! need to drool! :)22:21
timelesssorry, we didn't use an n900 o record the tvout of q322:23
timelessbut it did work and was quite amusing22:24
timelessactually, more amusing was running q3 and bounce at the same time22:24
timelessboth responding to motion :o22:24
konttori__RST38h: hold on a sec. Do you want to set defautl value or do you just want that query to work?22:24
konttori__as you can just modify the query to do a left outer join.22:24
GeneralAntillestimeless, we need a screenshot of that to hold over iPhone users. ;)22:24
konttori__it will slow down the query but it will always work22:24
RST38hkonttori: I want query to work even if does not get satisfied22:24
Khertanlcuk : ^^22:24
RST38hkonttori: I can't do joins, damn postgress is already slow like hell22:25
RST38hI can also run two selects of course22:25
konttori__well, that query that you have is already doing an inner join22:25
MyrttiKhertan: you saw the Barbeque app?22:25
konttori__it's just automatically made join.22:26
RST38hguess so, yes22:26
Khertani ve just made a query on google ... : useless google apps22:26
lcukRST38h, you dont have missing fields, you have missing records!22:26
coldbootYou made a query on iphone?22:27
Myrttibut seriously, that BBQ thing would be so cool.22:27
RST38hlcuk: Yes, I know that :)22:27
lcukbacon grill22:27
konttori__RST38h: something like this should work.
Myrttimmmm bacon22:27
Khertancoldboot: the second google word ... lol22:28
RST38hkonttori: !22:28
RST38hkonttori: Let's see how fast it runs though ;)22:28
coldbootThat iBeer is hilarious.22:28
lcukKhertan, even better use of accelerometer22:29
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lcuksuper massive widescreen ultra display22:29
lcukq3 would actually be AWESOME on that scale22:30
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Khertanlcuk: did you think of epilleptics peoples ?22:30
lcukyeah - we had specially trained people moving the bodies22:31
Khertanlcuk: i suppose you come at the summit ?22:32
lcukyeah gotta organise travel tonight actually22:32
konttori__Khertan: will you port your applets to fremantle 5?22:33
Khertankonttori__: surely22:34
slonopotamusKhertan, !!!22:34
konttori__wazd: I just got theme maker working without debian tools (so, it will soon work on windows as well)22:34
Khertankonttori__: just waiting that hildon python binding is more stable22:34
slonopotamusKhertan, pygtkeditor strips _ in filenames22:34
wazdkonttori_: great22:34
Khertanslonopotamus: oups22:34
konttori__Khertan: afaik, the binding is pretty stable22:34
Khertankonttori__: hum ... i get segfault many times22:35
Khertanand i didn't get the time yet to understand why22:35
fiferboywazd: :D22:35
slonopotamusKhertan, create i_like_underlines, open in and it'll apear as 'ilikeunderlines' in 'recent files'22:35
Khertanmaybe my fault22:35
Khertanslonopotamus: just in recent file ?22:35
lcuk+100 internets wazd22:35
fiferboywazd: I was just implementing something like that, but with "Bold, italic, underline, strikeout" as toggle buttons along the bottom22:35
Khertanon diablo / fremantle ?22:35
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slonopotamusKhertan, yep, editor title is correct, only recent is wrong22:36
javispedrowazd: wow.22:36
RST38hwazd <-- saves the day as always :)22:36
wazdfiferboy: well, you can do that instead of preview :)22:36
Khertanlol i ll take a look ... surely the gtk.Accelerator :)22:36
Khertanthanks for the report22:36
fiferboyI was hoping wazd would come in and knock one out of the park22:36
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RST38hkonttori: Does not work =(22:37
slonopotamusKhertan, and if i have two underlines in row ( then only one is stripped in each group so it becomes ''22:37
wazdyou're overrating my layer-moving skills guys :)22:37
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konttori__RST38h: so, try reversing the join direction22:37
konttori__(or just make it right outer join)22:37
konttori__instead of left outer join22:37
Khertanslonopotamus: you mean that it strip underscore in text ?22:38
konttori__(or FULL OUTER JOIN)22:38
coldbootIf you add a certificate to the Certificate Manager, should both an entry for a certificate authority AND a certificate show up?22:38
Khertannot only in recent file menu ?22:38
slonopotamusKhertan, i filenames in 'open recent' list22:38
coldbootBecause Mameo comes with tons of certificate authorities, but zero certificates.22:38
slonopotamuss/i /in /22:39
infobotslonopotamus meant: Khertan, in filenames in 'open recent' list22:39
konttori__full outer join works as: "First, an inner join is performed. Then, for each row in T1 that does not satisfy the join condition with any row in T2, a joined row is added with null values in columns of T2. Also, for each row of T2 that does not satisfy the join condition with any row in T1, a joined row with null values in the columns of T1 is added."22:39
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konttori__right outer join would be: "First, an inner join is performed. Then, for each row in T2 that does not satisfy the join condition with any row in T1, a joined row is added with null values in columns of T1. This is the converse of a left join: the result table will unconditionally have a row for each row in T2."22:40
konttori__RST38h: ^22:40
Khertanok /... i ll fix it tomorrow ...22:40
coldbootOh I guess infobot doesn't care about me.22:40
infobotcoldboot meant: goo22:40
lcukwazd quite amazing how you get yourself a lively full desktop in background of your faked up display and have remarkably accurate font listings :P22:40
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slonopotamuscoldboot, :P22:41
wazdlcuk: that's an image from Maemo_5_GUI.psd :D22:41
infobotslonopotamus meant: coldboot, -.-22:41
infobotslonopotamus meant: coldboot, -.-22:41
wazdlcuk: I mean background22:41
slonopotamusit doesn't remember s/// msgs22:42
slonopotamusand continues replacing first one22:42
slonopotamuss/ /hello, maemo!/22:42
infobotslonopotamus meant: hello, maemo!22:42
slonopotamuss/ /yep, kinda/22:42
infobotslonopotamus meant: yep, kinda22:42
* lcuk thinks your sense of proportion is second to none22:42
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MagicFabhi all22:42
MagicFabI recently ressucitated my n81022:43
slonopotamuslcuk, wazzup with proportion?22:43
Anunakinwhats best price for pre-order a N900?22:43
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MagicFabthere's a wrench icon on the boot splash.. can't remember why... I vaguely remember something abour r&d mode. SHould I try to revert to an original/previous firmware ?22:43
slonopotamuslcuk, i voted for you, whatever that means :)22:43
lcukheh slonopotamus22:44
lcukbut i was talking to wazd22:44
lcukthanks tho :$ :D22:44
* lcuk knows he hasnt got a duck at least22:44
lcukwell you have opened a can of worms..22:45
lcukyou included a color select nobble22:45
wazdkonttori_: btw, I've noticed that you got both semi-transparent and opaque backgrounds for elements in your template. Is there any hidden meaning for that? :)22:45
lcukand there isnt a fingerable color select22:45
slonopotamusouch! fingerable color select?22:45
* slonopotamus requests finger-controllable gimp22:45
wazdlcuk: whats wrong with my sense of proportions? :)22:45
lcuk"second to none"  you are the best22:46
lcuknothing at all :)22:46
wazdlcuk: oh :)22:46
konttori__wazd: all widgets only support 1 bit alpha atm (so, buttons and such), but all composited elements support full alpha22:46
konttori__we are actually working on supporting full alpha for everything, but weren't able to get that for sales22:46
konttori__might come later on.22:46
wazdkonttori_: that was my dream :D22:47
konttori__problems with keeping the drawing speed up. Need to start using 2d acceleration on the SGX, which is problematic22:47
lcukkonttori_, javispedro has discovered the imgtec stuff and noticed n900 is signed upto openvg22:47
wazdkonttori_: so, for example, touch sized checkbox supports full alpha?22:47
lcukhopefully it can be used soon :)22:48
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konttori__wazd: nope, that's a widget on GTK apps.22:48
wazdkonttori_: oh, ok then :)22:48
wazdkonttori_: and what's Special Character View?22:49
lcukkonttori_, you missed a great event in london - lots of beer and music and cool stuff to play with22:49
wazdfiferboy: btw, maybe it would be better to move previw row to the top22:50
wazdfiferboy: and color square too22:50
fiferboywazd: Can do, but I'm not sure colour belongs in the font selection dialog22:50
konttori__but, e.g. all applets have full alpha, as they are composited22:50
wazdfiferboy: oh, then you can do preview row 100% width :)22:51
konttori__spec char view is the few special chars in virtual kb22:51
wazdfiferboy: it's even better :)22:51
fiferboywazd: Very nice22:51
wazdkonttori_: and another question, contact avatar mask - does it support grayscale or bnw only?23:00
wazdkonttori_: or alpha, or whatever :)23:00
GeneralAntillesThe council and == communist cabal again.23:02
Myrtticommunist cabals ♥23:03
Stskeepsmaemiran election 200923:03
wazdMao Zeqole :D23:03
GeneralAntillesJust, fyi, it's shit like that that makes the council job unfun.23:04
wazdGuys, what do you think if home contacts will look like tiny polaroid photos? :)23:07
wazdAnd Ladies ofcourse :)23:07
konttori__wazd: it supports full alpha23:08
fiferboylcuk, wazd:
fiferboyIgnore the colours of the side buttons, scratchbox doesn't like scaling :|23:13
wazdfiferboy: nice, you can make buttos wider for easier finger access though23:13
lcukwazd - how would fiferboy go to making the top of the dialog full width23:13
lcuktheres a full column at that side thats dead air23:13
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fiferboyIs there a HILDON_SIZE_WIDTH_FINGER?23:14
wazdlcuk: I meant 100% of that coloumn :)23:14
lcukwazd the buttons are on the side of the screen23:14
lcukthey are fingerable without needing to be wider23:14
lcukits only middle bits that really have to be concerned?23:14
lcukor will the gutter get in the way23:15
wazdsquare buttons are more esthetic :P23:15
* lcuk bows to your judgement23:15
fiferboyThey don't define a "finger width" for hildon sizes23:15
fiferboyAlso, it would be nice if hildon toggle buttons in a vbox looked nice like they do in an hbox23:15
wazdfiferboy: can you just make their width in pixels?23:16
fiferboywazd: Sure, if I knew what the "fingerable" width was23:16
wazdfiferboy: I have 64x64 in my mockup23:17
wazdfiferboy: just make the width same as height23:17
wazdfiferboy: it will look nice23:17
fiferboywazd: The height is being calculated as 1/4 the available height (minus padding) - and not by me23:18
fiferboywazd: 64 looks nice and square :D23:18
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fiferboyHmm, now to add some actual functionality in...23:18
lcukhaha fifer23:19
fiferboylcuk :(23:20
lcukdoes it theoretically replace the functionality from the stock font select?23:20
fiferboylcuk: Stock gtk?  More or less23:20
lcukok ive got the one from xterm23:21
lcukface, size, color, bolditalicunderlinestrike,positioning(normal,super,sub)23:21
fiferboylcuk: That one provides fg and bg colour, mine won't (at least for the moment)23:21
fiferboylcuk: family, stlye (b,i,u,s), and size23:22
lcukxterm just has font color23:22
fiferboyNo positioning for the moment23:22
lcuknot back color23:22
fiferboylcuk: The second colour button does back colour, I think23:22
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fiferboyYup, at least in SDK it does...23:22
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lcuki see no back color23:23
lcukin which app23:23
lcukim in notes23:23
lcukosso has a fingerable select dialog of its own23:24
lcukyou are right, with 2 colors23:24
lcukbut the one in notes is completely different23:24
lcukand like the font select everywhere else23:24
fiferboylcuk: Notes isn't available in SDK23:24
* lcuk senses a bug report coming on23:25
lcukive been looking at standard font sel all the time23:25
fiferboylcuk: I don't think there is a standard one yet - at least in the hildon libs23:26
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fiferboyosso-xterm definitely rolls its own, and the one in the hildon git repo is deprecated23:26
* lcuk downloads something with a std gtk dialog hopefully23:27
fiferboylcuk: The standard gtk font dialog uses tiny scrollbars in maemo523:28
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fiferboylcuk: And the standard gtk color dialog uses even tinier number selectors23:29
* lcuk nods23:30
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lcukfiferboy, 3rd type of font selector seen in system23:31
fiferboylcuk: Are any of them fully fingerable and usable?23:32
lcukxterm one is beautifully so23:32
lcukexcept it does the font std23:32
lcukfont bold23:32
lcukfont ital23:32
fiferboylcuk: Except the colour part23:32
lcukin same list23:32
ShadowJKwazd, oh now I see where you got the parallax idea from :)23:33
fiferboylcuk: I'm not sure if that is the best way...23:33
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fiferboyGot to go23:36
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lcukok fiferboy digging at this23:37
lcukcool start tho, miffed theres so many variations23:37
wazdShadowJK: Sonic the Hedgehog? :D23:37
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ShadowJKI never realized before that the icons on teh N900 desktop, and the desktop background have parallax effect when scrolling :)23:40
wazdShadowJK: ah23:40
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wazdI wonder if this mechanism is hackable to add more layers :)23:41
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MaceN8x0was just thinking about the touchbook i am still waiting on23:49
MaceN8x0doesn't the n900 have a similar opengles gpu than the n810?23:49
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GeneralAntillesMaceN8x0, not really.23:49
GeneralAntillesThey're both PowerVR23:49
GeneralAntillesBut the SGX is a lot faster than the MBX.23:50
lcukaSIMULAter, that vid is a bit mental and odd23:50
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lcukhey javispedro \o23:58
lcukyou get my mail?23:58
* lcuk nods23:59
penguinbaithey where do I get my "I voted for lcuk" pin23:59
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Mekvoting is supposed to be anonymous :P23:59
lcukits actually an under layer on the "fixed in fremantle" pins23:59
lcukavailable from maemo.org23:59

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