| SpeedEvil | ? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: SDXC uses exFAT. | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I thought SDXC was simply a software mod | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - that | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Not if you format it ext2 | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | or ubifs | 00:00 |
| javispedro | ubifs doesn't work over the block layer I think | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm - true. | 00:01 |
| javispedro | but I get the point :) | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I want SD raw. | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | But similarly - that's unlikely. | 00:01 |
| Mikycol | Mmh | 00:01 |
| *** halves has quit IRC | 00:01 | |
| Mikycol | ok | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | However - if there is a linux kernel module for it - surely the users can simply install it. | 00:02 |
| *** macmaN6789 has quit IRC | 00:02 | |
| *** jpereira has joined #maemo | 00:02 | |
| SpeedEvil | Even if nokia cannot distribute it | 00:02 |
| javispedro | See OGG situation. | 00:02 |
| *** zimmerle has joined #maemo | 00:02 | |
| SpeedEvil | (assuming the users are willing to face the wrath of the SD patent attorneys. | 00:02 |
| *** Macer has joined #maemo | 00:03 | |
| *** alex-weej has joined #maemo | 00:04 | |
| *** briglia has quit IRC | 00:04 | |
| Mikycol | Sorry, My ask is very stupid! | 00:04 |
| javispedro | the answer is: "Not out of the box." | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Mikycol: no - it's not. | 00:05 |
| *** JoeBrain has joined #maemo | 00:06 | |
| *** AStorm has quit IRC | 00:07 | |
| *** JoeBrain_ has joined #maemo | 00:07 | |
| *** AStorm has joined #maemo | 00:07 | |
| Mikycol | Bye at all. Thank you :) | 00:10 |
| *** Mikycol has quit IRC | 00:10 | |
| *** dolphin has quit IRC | 00:10 | |
| *** radic has joined #maemo | 00:10 | |
| *** victorpoluceno has quit IRC | 00:18 | |
| *** victorpoluceno has joined #maemo | 00:18 | |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: SD raw? | 00:21 |
| *** jofjdi has quit IRC | 00:21 | |
| *** HeckleJeckle has joined #maemo | 00:21 | |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: SD without the remapping layer - so you can do your own wear levelling algorithms. | 00:21 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: it exists? | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 00:22 |
| HeckleJeckle | which sdk would one use for os 2007 hacked edition | 00:22 |
| *** jmc937396531 has quit IRC | 00:22 | |
| HeckleJeckle | gregale or bora? | 00:22 |
| zerojay | Good question. | 00:23 |
| *** JoeBrain has quit IRC | 00:24 | |
| *** JoeBrain_ is now known as JoeBrain | 00:24 | |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: for example - I mean so that if you want to write 128K - which you know to be the eraseblock size - you can simply write that block - and not potentially be split over multiple erase blocks due to wear leveling that's concealing the real architecture of the chip. (as of course a single erase takes 1/nth the time) | 00:24 |
| luke-jr | right | 00:25 |
| luke-jr | or you can use a filesystem designed for it | 00:25 |
| *** hannesw has quit IRC | 00:26 | |
| *** jhford is now known as zz_jhford | 00:26 | |
| SpeedEvil | Yes - rather than the firmware in the card trying to second guess what you want | 00:28 |
| *** trbs2 has quit IRC | 00:28 | |
| *** VDVsx has joined #maemo | 00:28 | |
| *** herzi has joined #maemo | 00:30 | |
| *** gnuton has quit IRC | 00:36 | |
| javispedro | I've been always bothered about the wear leveling algo in SD cards | 00:37 |
| javispedro | how does it know "free blocks"? | 00:37 |
| *** sphenxes has quit IRC | 00:38 | |
| *** sphenxes has joined #maemo | 00:38 | |
| *** VDVsx has quit IRC | 00:39 | |
| javispedro | If I write each and every block of the card, then repeteadly write block X, how is the card going to know which blocks I am not using to redirect the writes to those? | 00:40 |
| javispedro | or will it start just moving blocks around | 00:41 |
| *** MrGoose has quit IRC | 00:42 | |
| *** jay has joined #maemo | 00:43 | |
| *** jay is now known as Guest57216 | 00:43 | |
| SpeedEvil | I think the fun part is - it varies by maker. | 00:43 |
| javispedro | at least SSDs are starting to implement TRIM. | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Though AIUI there are a few SD card controllers that go in most | 00:44 |
| *** Guest57216 is now known as zerojayPC | 00:44 | |
| chx | javispedro: you can't write each and every block in a card | 00:44 |
| chx | javispedro: there always are spares | 00:44 |
| chx | javispedro: the capacity is bigger than advertised | 00:44 |
| javispedro | chx: not much space for wear leveling then :S | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - but the same question arises | 00:45 |
| chx | of course | 00:46 |
| chx | but note that the newer SD cards simply do not care that much | 00:46 |
| chx | at the price point they are, expecting any longevity... | 00:46 |
| javispedro | I know that some SSDs are implementing FAT parsers in firmware (thus "know" free blocks) | 00:47 |
| *** Vulcanis has joined #maemo | 00:47 | |
| javispedro | but the situation in SD cards is pretty unclear for me | 00:47 |
| chx | curious | 00:47 |
| chx | most SSDs are getting NTFS arent they | 00:47 |
| javispedro | chx: yeah, actually, I think it was a NTFS parser :P | 00:47 |
| derf | At the very least the card will do static wear leveling. | 00:48 |
| *** jjmarin has left #maemo | 00:48 | |
| derf | For some types of cards, you can only read from a block so many times, before it has to be copied to another block. | 00:49 |
| javispedro | http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=766&type=expert&pid=11 | 00:49 |
| javispedro | see the "Samsung" part | 00:49 |
| javispedro | (it talks about the drive reading NTFS's free space bitmap) | 00:49 |
| derf | So it actually does just "copy blocks around". | 00:49 |
| SpeedEvil | derf: reading also wears flash | 00:50 |
| SpeedEvil | as well as writing | 00:50 |
| SpeedEvil | and reading also fades writes somewhat | 00:50 |
| derf | But really, you can erase a block like a million times before it dies. | 00:52 |
| derf | A million should be enough for anybody. | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - 'dies' is somewhat misleading | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | As its bit-error rate rises. | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | With the right algorithms you can cope with even - say - 10% bit errors | 00:53 |
| javispedro | so, the conclusions is that SD cards are either: just moving blocks around, or they don't care at all about wear leveling. | 00:53 |
| SpeedEvil | There are some _very_ simple algorithms that you can use. | 00:54 |
| derf | Well, no. If you're using jffs2, it will do dynamic wear leveling as well, where it explicitly manages erase blocks. | 00:54 |
| javispedro | but jffs2, like ubifs, can't be used over a sd card (because it's not "sd raw" ;) ) | 00:55 |
| woglinde | javispedro right | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - every hundred thousandth write - you move block k to free block n, and free block n+1 to k, and increment k | 00:55 |
| woglinde | ubifs works only on internal stuff | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | This shuffles the data round and only means you need to store one number for your 'wear leveling' | 00:55 |
| *** __t has quit IRC | 00:56 | |
| *** krutt has joined #maemo | 00:56 | |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil, again, my initial question: what is a free block? how does the card know that? | 00:56 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: a spare block not exposed to the OS | 00:56 |
| javispedro | ah, ok | 00:57 |
| *** zz_jhford is now known as jhford | 00:58 | |
| SpeedEvil | So you have a band of - say 1000 - 'free' blocks that migrates across the device - displacing a datablock each move | 00:58 |
| *** zimmerle has left #maemo | 00:59 | |
| javispedro | you may actually not need the counter, just reassign a block from the spares as soon as a block can't be written without uncorrectable errors | 00:59 |
| SpeedEvil | That means you need a block lookup table. | 01:00 |
| javispedro | not really "wear" leveling, but hey ;P | 01:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I was wondering if you could avoid that | 01:00 |
| *** trbs has quit IRC | 01:01 | |
| *** zap has quit IRC | 01:04 | |
| *** zerojay has quit IRC | 01:04 | |
| *** pH5 has quit IRC | 01:05 | |
| *** zerojayPC is now known as zerojay | 01:05 | |
| *** sphenxes01 has joined #maemo | 01:05 | |
| *** amr has joined #maemo | 01:07 | |
| *** victorpoluceno has quit IRC | 01:09 | |
| *** victorpoluceno has joined #maemo | 01:09 | |
| *** vivijim has quit IRC | 01:10 | |
| *** dforsyth has quit IRC | 01:11 | |
| *** vivijim has joined #maemo | 01:12 | |
| *** acydlord has joined #maemo | 01:13 | |
| *** amr has quit IRC | 01:13 | |
| *** ljp has quit IRC | 01:15 | |
| *** Komzpa has quit IRC | 01:15 | |
| *** sphenxes01 has quit IRC | 01:16 | |
| *** hellwolf has quit IRC | 01:16 | |
| *** ljp has joined #maemo | 01:17 | |
| Corsac | hmhm, flash support in n8x0 and n900 is provided through some standard debian packages or is it some really proprietary support? | 01:17 |
| luke-jr | Corsac: uh, standard Debian doesn't support Flash AFAIK | 01:18 |
| Robot101 | Corsac: there aren't arm flash packages free to download, so it's from a deal with adobe and nokia | 01:18 |
| Corsac | yeah ok | 01:18 |
| *** sphenxes01 has joined #maemo | 01:19 | |
| luke-jr | Robot101: Gnash? | 01:19 |
| Corsac | no | 01:19 |
| Robot101 | like, real adobe flash for arm | 01:19 |
| Robot101 | takes ££ | 01:20 |
| *** ljp has quit IRC | 01:20 | |
| *** sphenxes has quit IRC | 01:20 | |
| zerojay | Licensing is fun. | 01:21 |
| zerojay | In a brick-to-the-face sort of way. | 01:21 |
| JoeBrain | lol | 01:22 |
| Corsac | hmhm, weird | 01:22 |
| Corsac | dropbear doesnt support ssh keys? | 01:23 |
| Corsac | I thought I was using that once in a while | 01:23 |
| *** ljp has joined #maemo | 01:25 | |
| *** jnettlet has joined #maemo | 01:25 | |
| javispedro | it does, only in its own weird format | 01:25 |
| *** Sargun has quit IRC | 01:25 | |
| merkuralex_ | brick-to-the-face!?!?!?! wheres mine! i am missing out on the fun man! SOMEONE THROUGH A BRICK AT ME!!! | 01:25 |
| *** hellwolf-n810 has joined #maemo | 01:26 | |
| * SpeedEvil throws a brick at merkuralex. (1*8 red lego techniks) | 01:26 | |
| *** Sargun has joined #maemo | 01:26 | |
| merkuralex_ | LOL | 01:26 |
| merkuralex_ | nice one | 01:26 |
| zerojay | I don't know, man. | 01:30 |
| zerojay | Ever step on a Lego left on the floor with bare feet at 3am? | 01:31 |
| *** danilocesar has quit IRC | 01:32 | |
| *** pvanhoof has quit IRC | 01:32 | |
| *** herzi has quit IRC | 01:33 | |
| SpeedEvil | zerojay: I see your lego, and raise you DIP32 EPROMs. | 01:33 |
| SpeedEvil | DIP40 I could never get all the pins in. | 01:33 |
| jaska | hmm.. i need to figure out what sort of chip it was that i once stepped on | 01:36 |
| *** merkuralex_ has quit IRC | 01:36 | |
| *** andriy has quit IRC | 01:36 | |
| SpeedEvil | (32 pin 0.1" seperated - two rows of 16 0.6" apart) | 01:36 |
| jaska | PGA, think it wa some dsp | 01:37 |
| *** matt_c has quit IRC | 01:37 | |
| jaska | so a few hundred pins | 01:37 |
| *** aloisiojr has quit IRC | 01:38 | |
| jaska | nah.. less than a hundred, it was some early tms320xx | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - it's hard to get those all in though | 01:39 |
| jaska | true | 01:39 |
| jaska | it didnt feel too good tho | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 01:39 |
| JoeBrain | If there are enough pins does it end up being like a bed of nails? | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | the skin pressure to puncture is - say 1kg/pin | 01:40 |
| * zerojay folds. | 01:41 | |
| SpeedEvil | You can quite easily do 30Kg if you don't step carefully | 01:41 |
| SpeedEvil | but - say - 256 pins - requires you to jump on it | 01:41 |
| *** qwerty12_N810 has quit IRC | 01:45 | |
| * JoeBrain goes to build a bed of chips | 01:48 | |
| SpeedEvil | Cheese and onion flavour? | 01:48 |
| JoeBrain | I was thinking salt & vinegar, but I may reconsider | 01:48 |
| *** angasule has joined #maemo | 01:52 | |
| *** MrGoose has joined #maemo | 01:53 | |
| *** elninja_ has quit IRC | 01:55 | |
| *** lbt has quit IRC | 01:56 | |
| *** etrunko has quit IRC | 01:59 | |
| *** tiagofalcao[AWAY is now known as tiagofalcao | 02:00 | |
| *** benh has quit IRC | 02:01 | |
| *** bulfaiter has quit IRC | 02:02 | |
| *** L0cMini9 has quit IRC | 02:02 | |
| *** m3kyd has quit IRC | 02:04 | |
| *** renato has quit IRC | 02:10 | |
| *** radic has quit IRC | 02:11 | |
| *** vivijim has quit IRC | 02:11 | |
| *** SpeedEvil has quit IRC | 02:13 | |
| * wazd_ is happy about Motorola comeback | 02:16 | |
| *** MrGoose has left #maemo | 02:19 | |
| *** ArSa__ has joined #maemo | 02:20 | |
| *** chenca has quit IRC | 02:20 | |
| chx | wazd_: hm? | 02:22 |
| chx | wazd_: Motorola comeback? | 02:22 |
| chx | wazd_: what happened? | 02:22 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 02:23 | |
| MaceN8x0 | ran out of true blood episodes | 02:24 |
| wazd_ | chx: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/10/motorola-cliq-first-hands-on-impressions | 02:24 |
| MaceN8x0 | season 2 is pretty good compared to 1 | 02:24 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 02:25 | |
| *** benh has joined #maemo | 02:27 | |
| *** Andy80 has quit IRC | 02:30 | |
| *** ArSa has quit IRC | 02:35 | |
| *** Federico2 has quit IRC | 02:36 | |
| *** milos_ has quit IRC | 02:39 | |
| javispedro | stlc45xx seems to be going to disappear from staging in 2.6.33 | 02:43 |
| *** jnettlet has quit IRC | 02:43 | |
| JoeBrain | Is that the droid i'm looking for? | 02:43 |
| javispedro | droid-what? | 02:44 |
| *** caotic_ has quit IRC | 02:45 | |
| javispedro | bitrot yet again | 02:46 |
| javispedro | or is the prism54 usable already? | 02:46 |
| JoeBrain | The moto thing | 02:46 |
| chx | wazd_: and that will bring back Motorola from the grave? | 02:47 |
| chx | wazd_: one Android phone among the coming multitude? | 02:48 |
| wazd_ | chx: well, at least it's Moto build quality :) | 02:48 |
| JoeBrain | lol | 02:48 |
| *** ShellEvil has joined #maemo | 02:48 | |
| wazd_ | chx: they had awesome hardware and totally lame software | 02:48 |
| JoeBrain | Well they had the shotgun approach & they only really focused on hardware, so something was bound to stick | 02:49 |
| *** ArSa__ has quit IRC | 02:49 | |
| chx | I thought RAZR over, Moto ovre. | 02:49 |
| wazd_ | chx: no, they had pretty descent models without razr | 02:49 |
| wazd_ | chx: my gf still has Slvr l7, it looks like new after 3 years | 02:50 |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 02:50 | |
| wazd_ | and same uber-lame software :D | 02:50 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 02:51 | |
| rektide | the moto doesnt seem to have any kind of advantage in the raw specs department | 02:52 |
| *** chx is now known as chx_afk | 02:52 | |
| rektide | frankly its either the powervr sgx chip or its crap, until the next powervr chip | 02:54 |
| rektide | curse amd for having seemingly bowed out of this field | 02:54 |
| zerojay | Moto was terrible. | 02:54 |
| zerojay | A lot of their phones had massive memory leaks. | 02:54 |
| zerojay | RAZR was okay... but they just rode that thing for far too long. | 02:55 |
| *** JoeBrain has quit IRC | 02:56 | |
| *** JoeBrain_ has joined #maemo | 02:56 | |
| *** JoeBrain_ is now known as JoeBrain | 02:56 | |
| *** rsalveti has quit IRC | 02:56 | |
| JoeBrain | yeah after the original sleek cellphone StarTAC & then the razr, no new ideas | 02:57 |
| JoeBrain | I think the pebl was okay-ish, but by then it was too little too late | 02:57 |
| *** rsalveti has joined #maemo | 02:58 | |
| *** alehorst has quit IRC | 02:58 | |
| wazd_ | again, software was awful | 03:00 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 03:00 | |
| wazd_ | you can't sell a phone that has almost no software :) | 03:00 |
| zerojay | Yeah...they weren't very good at software. | 03:00 |
| wazd_ | even nokia's s300 was more stable and functionaly wise | 03:00 |
| wazd_ | s30* | 03:01 |
| JoeBrain | lol yeah | 03:01 |
| JoeBrain | Its funny they didnt figure it out even immediately when the iPhone was released | 03:01 |
| wazd_ | pebl was awesome, one of the phones that I just wanted with raw feeling :) | 03:01 |
| *** AltC has quit IRC | 03:01 | |
| wazd_ | but I was too young to buy such an expensive toy :) | 03:02 |
| *** HeckleJeckle has left #maemo | 03:03 | |
| zerojay | JoeBrain: Moto was dead long before Apple even thought of bringing the iPhone out. | 03:03 |
| JoeBrain | no argument here | 03:03 |
| JoeBrain | but by they I include the other OEMs | 03:04 |
| *** eichi has quit IRC | 03:04 | |
| wazd_ | moto even had it's own linux platform, but again got it wrong way | 03:04 |
| *** eichi has joined #maemo | 03:06 | |
| rektide | even android doesnt know whether it wants to be a flexible linux platform or a phone platform | 03:07 |
| *** fiferboy has joined #maemo | 03:07 | |
| rektide | maemo is definitely the best in that regard | 03:07 |
| *** fiferboy_ has joined #maemo | 03:08 | |
| zerojay | I wouldn't call Android flexible whatsoever. | 03:08 |
| zerojay | Android's pretty much one step away from being just as locked down as iPhone really. | 03:08 |
| ShellEvil | There is a wide view of what's locked down though. | 03:09 |
| fiferboy_ | timeless_mbp: countdown-home 0.4-5 (with localized date and time) should be in extras-devel now :) | 03:09 |
| ShellEvil | From 'As long as one core runs non-free code' all the way up to rational people, and through 'But I can install games' | 03:10 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: insomnia? :D | 03:10 |
| fiferboy_ | wazd_: It's 8 PM :P | 03:12 |
| fiferboy_ | wazd_: What's your excuse? | 03:12 |
| *** Midlet- has joined #maemo | 03:13 | |
| *** tbf has quit IRC | 03:13 | |
| JoeBrain | As locked down vs. usability though :\ | 03:13 |
| wazd_ | fiferboy: well, deadline :) | 03:13 |
| fiferboy_ | wazd_: Ah, understandable | 03:13 |
| JoeBrain | I mean I understand the downside & upsides of flexibility, but if I'm only going to own ONE device at a time | 03:13 |
| Midlet- | i dont know if this is the correct channel to ask this in but is it possible to make an internet connection without notifying the user , i know its impossible in python s60, i dont know about j2me yet, if also no is it possible in c++ ? | 03:14 |
| *** fiferboy has quit IRC | 03:14 | |
| *** fnordianslip has quit IRC | 03:16 | |
| *** monkeyiq has joined #maemo | 03:17 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 03:18 | |
| *** fiferboy_ is now known as fiferboy | 03:20 | |
| *** Ryback_ has quit IRC | 03:24 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 03:26 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 03:26 | |
| *** Interocitor has joined #maemo | 03:29 | |
| *** lcukx41 has joined #maemo | 03:32 | |
| ShellEvil | On what platform? | 03:32 |
| ShellEvil | Personally - if yes - that's a bug. | 03:33 |
| eichi | hello guys. can i install the bootloader with the flasher too? | 03:34 |
| wazd_ | Midlet-: Are you trying to write some sneaky virus or something? :) | 03:34 |
| *** HeckleJeckle has joined #maemo | 03:35 | |
| *** javispedro has quit IRC | 03:35 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 03:36 | |
| Midlet- | wazd_ no everything that sounds mallicious is mallicious im just a researching | 03:37 |
| Midlet- | :) | 03:37 |
| Midlet- | s/a//g | 03:37 |
| *** HeckleJeckle has left #maemo | 03:37 | |
| eichi | sorry, i mean the bootmenu | 03:37 |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 03:38 | |
| *** Sargun has quit IRC | 03:41 | |
| zerojay | Midlet-: You would see the icon at the top of the screen show you there's a connection underway. | 03:44 |
| Midlet- | zerojay i understand , but my question is something else | 03:46 |
| Midlet- | and ive found the answers | 03:46 |
| *** angasule has quit IRC | 03:47 | |
| *** ShellEvil is now known as SpeedEvil | 03:47 | |
| *** Shinto has quit IRC | 03:47 | |
| *** Moku has joined #maemo | 03:48 | |
| *** Midlet- has left #maemo | 03:48 | |
| JoeBrain | So does everyone have a nifty new Nokia tablet? :) | 03:49 |
| JoeBrain | Ah the N9000 isnt out yet :( | 03:49 |
| JoeBrain | 900* | 03:49 |
| wazd_ | JoeBrain: n9000 isn't for sure :D | 03:50 |
| JoeBrain | ;) | 03:50 |
| zerojay | lol | 03:51 |
| zerojay | Won't be long now. | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not a tablet - it's a phone | 03:52 |
| SpeedEvil | or something | 03:52 |
| *** chx_afk is now known as chx | 03:52 | |
| *** dreamer_ has joined #maemo | 03:53 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 03:54 | |
| JoeBrain | cellular tablet | 03:55 |
| JoeBrain | portable cellular tablet device assistant | 03:55 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 03:57 | |
| Pio | portable cellular mobile tablet digital assistant device | 03:58 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 03:58 | |
| SpeedEvil | Get a powerful touch screen computer with excellent communications capabilities. | 03:58 |
| *** jhford is now known as zz_jhford | 03:58 | |
| SpeedEvil | says the UK site | 03:58 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 03:59 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 03:59 | |
| *** lcukx41 has quit IRC | 03:59 | |
| *** alex-weej has quit IRC | 04:01 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 04:02 | |
| JoeBrain | touch screen communication computer it is then.. | 04:02 |
| *** Interocitor has quit IRC | 04:02 | |
| *** tiagofalcao is now known as tiagofalcao[AWAY | 04:06 | |
| *** SpeedEvil has quit IRC | 04:06 | |
| *** alecrim has quit IRC | 04:08 | |
| *** ShellEvil has joined #maemo | 04:12 | |
| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 04:14 | |
| *** ShellEvil has quit IRC | 04:15 | |
| *** zz_jhford is now known as jhford | 04:20 | |
| *** b-man16 has joined #maemo | 04:20 | |
| *** ShellEvil has joined #maemo | 04:21 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 04:25 | |
| *** zpol is now known as lopz | 04:26 | |
| *** fiferboy has quit IRC | 04:30 | |
| *** eichi has quit IRC | 04:31 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 04:34 | |
| *** woglinde has quit IRC | 04:35 | |
| *** JoeBrain has quit IRC | 04:36 | |
| *** alehorst has joined #maemo | 04:38 | |
| *** rsalveti has quit IRC | 04:39 | |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil: iirc a write the size of eraseblock on SD will always end up in just one eraseblock | 04:40 |
| *** dieb_ has joined #maemo | 04:41 | |
| ShadowJK | javipedro: SD card has more blocks than it lets you know it has. iirc when you write to a block (whether it's full eraseblock_size size or smaller), it takes the next block from "unused" pool, erases and writes, puts the old block onto unused pool | 04:45 |
| ShellEvil | ShadowJK: I need to do more research | 04:46 |
| *** ShellEvil is now known as SpeedEvil | 04:46 | |
| ShadowJK | so yeah, logcal blocks that never get overwritten aren't part of the wear leveling on SD at all | 04:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm more interested in the fragmented write case | 04:47 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: is this supposition - or are there actual details somewhere on schems? | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | es | 04:48 |
| *** chx_ has joined #maemo | 04:48 | |
| ShadowJK | the logfs author posted a description to lkml | 04:50 |
| ShadowJK | most SD implement "SmartMedia" | 04:50 |
| ShadowJK | http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org/msg170028.html | 04:52 |
| ShadowJK | enjoy | 04:52 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 04:52 | |
| zerojay | http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/3907797940/ :) | 04:53 |
| *** dieb__ has joined #maemo | 04:54 | |
| *** ameng has joined #maemo | 04:55 | |
| *** rsalveti has joined #maemo | 04:56 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 04:57 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 04:58 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 04:59 | |
| *** chx has quit IRC | 04:59 | |
| *** Jucato_ has joined #maemo | 05:04 | |
| * GAN800 yawns | 05:04 | |
| *** gunni_ has joined #maemo | 05:04 | |
| *** gunni has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** joelmaher has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** Luke-Jr2 has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** Jucato has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** timoph has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** ameng has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** TTilus has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** ryoohki has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** parasight has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** nikosapi has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** timeless has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** SaBer has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** r2d2rogers has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| GAN800 | Too much driving today. | 05:04 |
| *** timoph has joined #maemo | 05:05 | |
| *** timeless has joined #maemo | 05:05 | |
| *** ryoohki has joined #maemo | 05:05 | |
| *** nikosapi has joined #maemo | 05:05 | |
| *** Jucato_ is now known as Jucato | 05:05 | |
| *** r2d2rogers has joined #maemo | 05:05 | |
| *** SaBer has joined #maemo | 05:05 | |
| *** TTilus has joined #maemo | 05:05 | |
| *** Luke-Jr2 has joined #maemo | 05:05 | |
| *** parasight has joined #maemo | 05:05 | |
| *** joelmaher has joined #maemo | 05:05 | |
| *** jofjdi has joined #maemo | 05:05 | |
| *** ameng has joined #maemo | 05:06 | |
| *** chx_ is now known as chx | 05:09 | |
| *** b-man16 has quit IRC | 05:10 | |
| *** dieb_ has quit IRC | 05:12 | |
| *** disco_stu_N800 has joined #maemo | 05:13 | |
| *** disco_stu has quit IRC | 05:14 | |
| *** disco_stu_N800 is now known as disco_stu | 05:14 | |
| *** pcfe has quit IRC | 05:21 | |
| *** pcfe has joined #maemo | 05:22 | |
| *** tiagofalcao[AWAY is now known as tiagofalcao | 05:29 | |
| zerojay | GAN800: Where to/from? | 05:33 |
| *** victorpoluceno has quit IRC | 05:34 | |
| *** febb has joined #maemo | 05:36 | |
| *** tiagofalcao is now known as tiagofalcao[AWAY | 05:37 | |
| *** fnordianslip has joined #maemo | 05:37 | |
| *** fnordianslip has quit IRC | 05:39 | |
| GAN800 | zerojay, school to home to the Apple Store in Timbuktu to home to the airport to home. | 05:48 |
| GAN800 | Close to 400 miles. | 05:48 |
| GAN800 | But my G5 has now been sent back to the mothership. | 05:48 |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 05:50 | |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 05:51 | |
| thux | GAN800: 400 miles? what kind of car? | 05:52 |
| SpeedEvil | np: The Proclaimers - I would walk 500 miles. | 06:00 |
| *** febb has quit IRC | 06:07 | |
| *** wazd_ has quit IRC | 06:11 | |
| GAN800 | thux, 2004 Camry 4-banger. | 06:13 |
| GAN800 | Only used about 60% of an 18.5 US gallon tank. | 06:13 |
| thux | then it was long drive :) | 06:14 |
| thux | i got toyota too | 06:14 |
| *** LinuxCode has joined #maemo | 06:20 | |
| *** Firebird has quit IRC | 06:20 | |
| *** chx is now known as chx_afk | 06:22 | |
| *** Komzpa has joined #maemo | 06:46 | |
| *** blassey1 has joined #maemo | 06:48 | |
| *** radic has joined #maemo | 06:57 | |
| *** chx_afk is now known as chx | 07:02 | |
| *** bergie has joined #maemo | 07:04 | |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 07:07 | |
| *** jhford is now known as zz_jhford | 07:07 | |
| *** droid001 has joined #maemo | 07:10 | |
| *** Shinto has joined #maemo | 07:11 | |
| *** dreamer_ has quit IRC | 07:23 | |
| *** Moku has quit IRC | 07:25 | |
| *** droid0011 has quit IRC | 07:27 | |
| *** Komzpa has quit IRC | 07:30 | |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 07:32 | |
| timeless_mbp | why can't i install gpodder? | 07:32 |
| *** dforsyth has joined #maemo | 07:32 | |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: i can't install appinstaller | 07:33 |
| *** zap has joined #maemo | 07:33 | |
| *** chx is now known as chx_sleeping | 07:35 | |
| *** Sudhir has joined #maemo | 07:36 | |
| Sudhir | Hello guys. Could someone help me to solve problem? I want to block internet access of some of my application in n810 for the timebeing, but do not with to uninstall those. Is there any way to do it? | 07:38 |
| timeless_mbp | as ipfw/ipchains would? | 07:38 |
| johnx | Sudhir, not easily. how familiar are you with linux firewalls? | 07:40 |
| Sudhir | timeless_mbp : isnt it at too low level? | 07:40 |
| Sudhir | not much, but I can learn very quickly. | 07:40 |
| *** trofi has quit IRC | 07:40 | |
| Sudhir | johnx : can one use firewalls to block the internet access of only some of the applications? | 07:41 |
| johnx | Sudhir, timeless is right. iptables is the way it's done on linux. I don't really know of something else that would do the trick. | 07:41 |
| *** bergie has quit IRC | 07:41 | |
| johnx | you can use iptables to block specific protocols | 07:41 |
| johnx | may I ask why you want to do this? | 07:41 |
| GAN800 | There's a scratch in the faceplate paint where I slide my thumb to scroll. :( | 07:42 |
| timeless_mbp | he wants to run windows :) | 07:42 |
| Sudhir | johnx : I am customizing my n810. I do not use all of the app all the time. so thought if i can write some script and then tell it i want to start or stop using so and so application. | 07:43 |
| johnx | so why do you want the apps running but unable to connect to the internet? | 07:44 |
| Sudhir | johnx: not running, just want to make sure that it does not get connected without my script allowing it. | 07:44 |
| johnx | so why not make sure it doesn't run at all? | 07:45 |
| johnx | so is this to meet some kind of security requirements? or to save battery power? | 07:46 |
| timeless_mbp | http://iptables-tutorial.frozentux.net/iptables-tutorial.html#USERLANDSTATES | 07:47 |
| GAN800 | Mer is going to take 2 years to become day-to-day usable, apparently. | 07:47 |
| timeless_mbp | "Owner match" | 07:47 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN800: depressed/ | 07:47 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, that's pretty cool :) | 07:47 |
| johnx | GAN800, source of that? | 07:47 |
| GAN800 | Actually, that's a good question disguised as a troll. When IS it going to be a viable Diablo alternative? | 07:47 |
| GAN800 | johnx, random fool on Talk. Forgot the giant sarcasm tags. | 07:48 |
| timeless_mbp | has anyone categorized what's missing? | 07:48 |
| johnx | GAN800, we have an internal version that works perfectly, but when you troll we put off the release by a couple months | 07:48 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc it needs ~6 more control panel applets | 07:49 |
| GAN800 | I need buttons that work as expected plus reasonably similar out-of-box functionality. | 07:50 |
| * timeless_mbp goes back to changing the labels on all the buttons | 07:50 | |
| GAN800 | Actually, I may need nm to die before I can use it. | 07:50 |
| johnx | GAN800, and be replaced with? | 07:51 |
| timeless_mbp | probably | 07:51 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: a lump of coal | 07:51 |
| GAN800 | johnx, there's the rub. | 07:51 |
| timeless_mbp | slightly more reliable and easier to handle | 07:51 |
| GAN800 | Anything is better than nm. | 07:51 |
| timeless_mbp | we can probably write a ui using the toolkit i've used :) | 07:51 |
| GAN800 | I'd even settle for a dried dog turd. | 07:51 |
| timeless_mbp | it'd be better than nm | 07:51 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: see, just like my lump of coal :) | 07:52 |
| *** mlpug has joined #maemo | 07:52 | |
| Stskeeps | morning | 07:53 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes Stskeeps | 07:53 | |
| *** zz_jhford is now known as jhford | 07:54 | |
| * Stskeeps needs coffee | 07:54 | |
| * timeless_mbp needs feedback | 07:54 | |
| *** gunni_ has quit IRC | 07:55 | |
| *** jhford is now known as zz_jhford | 07:55 | |
| Macer | hm | 07:55 |
| *** gunni has joined #maemo | 07:56 | |
| * LinuxCode needs his proper inet+ phone line back | 07:57 | |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 08:00 | |
| *** Sudhir has quit IRC | 08:02 | |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #maemo | 08:02 | |
| *** User493 has joined #maemo | 08:03 | |
| User493 | hey if you guys are bored try facebook zombies game:D - http://apps.facebook.com/zombies/links.php?r=719927515&nref=st | 08:03 |
| *** User493 has quit IRC | 08:03 | |
| *** vigneswari has joined #maemo | 08:09 | |
| *** Sargun has joined #maemo | 08:10 | |
| *** pupnik_ has joined #maemo | 08:14 | |
| pupnik_ | http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/sdk/KhronosOpenGLES2xSGX.asp useful? | 08:14 |
| johnx | so looks like that moto cliq thing might go for $0 w/ 2 year contract on t-mo | 08:14 |
| *** LinuxCode has quit IRC | 08:15 | |
| *** juergbi has quit IRC | 08:16 | |
| *** juergbi has joined #maemo | 08:17 | |
| *** dforsyth has quit IRC | 08:19 | |
| *** zz_jhford is now known as jhford | 08:22 | |
| pupnik_ | is that good? | 08:28 |
| pupnik_ | hey i just figured out how to get around the sgx texture-upload limitation for snes | 08:29 |
| johnx | well, it's what I was predicting google was trying to do from the onset: take over the dumb-phone market and then use economies of scale and cheaper ARM processors to break into the developing world markets where people have cell phones, not computers | 08:30 |
| johnx | I mean, they tied up the desktop search/email/video marketshare pretty well and are now just using it to take over other markets (picture sharing, etc) | 08:32 |
| johnx | but they have to be thinking "Where are the next billion google users going to come from?" | 08:32 |
| *** harisund has quit IRC | 08:32 | |
| Stskeeps | china? :P india? :P | 08:32 |
| pupnik_ | since their revenue stream is based on eyeballs, that mases sense | 08:33 |
| johnx | hands Stskeeps a cookie :) | 08:33 |
| RST38h | "Any use of sub menus, beyond what fits in the 10 menu item slots in the View menu, should be avoided. Even just removing those menu commands that do not fit, should be considered. " | 08:33 |
| * RST38h facepalms | 08:33 | |
| johnx | I bet cell phones heavily out number computers there though :) | 08:33 |
| johnx | RST38h, sub-sub menus :) | 08:34 |
| pupnik_ | easy solution RST38h - make one menu item do one of many things at random | 08:34 |
| *** slonopotamus_ has joined #maemo | 08:35 | |
| RST38h | BTW, can I have some crunchy eyeballs? | 08:35 |
| johnx | actually, something more similar to the mac os x/nextstep finder where you look through columns of stuff and double tap or press a seperate button to activate kind of makes sense | 08:35 |
| RST38h | pupnik: in sequence, yes | 08:35 |
| johnx | RST38h, sorry, all I've got is crispix | 08:35 |
| johnx | (which would make a good name for a breakfast-oriented unix clone) | 08:35 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Nth click initiates Nth action | 08:36 |
| johnx | RST38h, discriminates against users who can't count :P | 08:36 |
| pupnik_ | i thought you wanted to get revenge on the 10-item-limit people | 08:36 |
| RST38h | johnx: Fine with that =) | 08:36 |
| RST38h | BTW, there is an SCP item for that | 08:36 |
| *** comhack has quit IRC | 08:37 | |
| RST38h | Here it is: http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-120 | 08:38 |
| *** comhack has joined #maemo | 08:38 | |
| johnx | gotta take a second to really thank the people at Nokia who got us the open source finger keyboard example plugin open sourced :) | 08:38 |
| johnx | I owe some people a beer :D | 08:38 |
| RST38h | You made a new HIM plugin? | 08:39 |
| johnx | they did :) | 08:40 |
| RST38h | Translucent full screen finger keyboard? =) | 08:40 |
| johnx | RST38h, do the compositing yourself and you could probably have it semi-transparent | 08:40 |
| RST38h | hm | 08:40 |
| luke-jr | now when will Nokia start making/using realistic-to-type-on keyboards? :) | 08:40 |
| johnx | screenies: https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1356&action=view | 08:40 |
| johnx | link to source: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4178 | 08:41 |
| johnx | luke-jr, ever used a blackberry storm? | 08:41 |
| luke-jr | johnx: nope | 08:41 |
| RST38h | johnx: mm, this is not exactly what I meant... | 08:41 |
| johnx | luke-jr, turns out devices with no tactile feedback are waaaay better than devices with half-assed tactile feedback | 08:41 |
| luke-jr | johnx: ? | 08:42 |
| johnx | luke-jr, the storm's screen must be pressed in and physically clicks | 08:42 |
| johnx | it's all a big button | 08:42 |
| johnx | and it sucks | 08:42 |
| johnx | bad | 08:42 |
| luke-jr | ok? | 08:42 |
| luke-jr | and? | 08:42 |
| johnx | that was there attempt at realistic-to-type-on keyboards | 08:42 |
| RST38h | 4 big buttons really | 08:43 |
| luke-jr | johnx: fail | 08:43 |
| johnx | yes | 08:43 |
| RST38h | Blackberry sucks no matter what they do =( | 08:43 |
| luke-jr | I yet again refer you to the Zaurus SL-C* series | 08:43 |
| johnx | RST38h, that first one blew my mind :) | 08:43 |
| johnx | luke-jr, yup. even the SL-5x00 series was nice | 08:43 |
| RST38h | johnx: Yes, but it effectively obscures the application screen | 08:43 |
| RST38h | johnx: So, it is of limited use =( | 08:44 |
| johnx | RST38h, it's of great use in mer :) | 08:44 |
| RST38h | Ah | 08:44 |
| RST38h | Now I see =) | 08:44 |
| johnx | I am (*#&$ing thrilled. bouncing off the walls here :D | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | especially since we've tried to get fremantle HIM working for a year, heh | 08:44 |
| luke-jr | johnx: but seriously, why nobody uses it in a modern handheld? | 08:45 |
| *** jhford is now known as zz_jhford | 08:45 | |
| johnx | luke-jr, I have no idea. none at all. and remember how nice the d-pad was? | 08:45 |
| johnx | with the cancel right next to it and the center ok button? | 08:45 |
| luke-jr | johnx: what d-pad? | 08:45 |
| johnx | did you have an SL-Cxx0 or Cxx00? | 08:46 |
| *** benson has joined #maemo | 08:46 | |
| luke-jr | SL-C760 | 08:46 |
| johnx | ah, so you had the arrow keys | 08:46 |
| luke-jr | sitting right in front of me | 08:46 |
| luke-jr | booting | 08:46 |
| luke-jr | yes | 08:46 |
| johnx | check out a Cxx00 :) | 08:46 |
| johnx | gorgeous, awesome d-pad | 08:46 |
| *** benson has quit IRC | 08:46 | |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: not sure about Add/Remove as it is only one type of content (apps) | 08:47 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 08:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | updating is not something you generally should reach through this entry point | 08:48 |
| timeless_mbp | updates should happen by getting a notification in the notification area | 08:48 |
| timeless_mbp | Pkg Mgr or Pkg Manager would probably be better | 08:48 |
| timeless_mbp | but i really don't like abbreviations | 08:48 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: you don't happen to know why Nokia doesn't use a good hardware kb, do you? | 08:48 |
| timeless_mbp | i've only been in maemo devices for a couple of months | 08:49 |
| luke-jr | o | 08:49 |
| timeless_mbp | and i have yet to meet the people in procurement or hardware selection/design | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: the devel units we saw were excellent hw kbs | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | very nice to use | 08:49 |
| timeless_mbp | --- devices is a no unit | 08:49 |
| timeless_mbp | s/no/new/ | 08:49 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: --- devices is a new unit | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: Pkg Manager reminds me of http://s16.radikal.ru/i190/0909/fa/709f9ac844ef.png | 08:49 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: compared to Zaurus SL-C*? | 08:49 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: heh | 08:50 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: i absolutely hated n810 but loved this one | 08:50 |
| johnx | luke-jr, yup, the dev units that led to the N900 were much better than the n810 keyboard | 08:50 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: fwiw, i was never a fan of the n810 keyboard | 08:50 |
| johnx | not all the way up to the C1000 keyboard though | 08:50 |
| timeless_mbp | the n900 keyboard doesn't bother me nearly as much | 08:50 |
| johnx | but much more compact, so I can't really blame them | 08:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i have switched to using the n900 as my primary phone (and secondary too actually) | 08:50 |
| *** Wikier has joined #maemo | 08:50 | |
| johnx | In most cases (except IM/IRC/console) I'd take the n800 onscreen kb over the n810 physical keyboard | 08:51 |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 08:51 | |
| *** slonopotamus_ is now known as slonopotamus | 08:51 | |
| *** dieb_ has joined #maemo | 08:54 | |
| *** geaaru has joined #maemo | 08:54 | |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: otherwise no complaints | 08:54 |
| timeless_mbp | you're using C right? | 08:55 |
| * timeless_mbp should tag this repo | 08:55 | |
| Stskeeps | Benus | 08:55 |
| timeless_mbp | i haven't changed the desktop strings in that version (locally changed them today) | 08:55 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 08:55 |
| timeless_mbp | well, there's a C :) | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | well then | 08:55 |
| timeless_mbp | predictable naming :) | 08:56 |
| Stskeeps | not uploaded | 08:56 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm really? | 08:56 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 08:56 | |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 08:56 |
| * timeless_mbp doesn't know where it'd be either | 08:56 | |
| * timeless_mbp shut down mer | 08:57 | |
| timeless_mbp | actually, no, sorry | 08:57 |
| timeless_mbp | you're right, B was the replacement for A :) | 08:57 |
| timeless_mbp | there will be a C :) | 08:57 |
| timeless_mbp | actually, i have someone who's starting to convert back for enGB | 08:58 |
| luke-jr | I like C. | 08:58 |
| timeless_mbp | i need to collect his non enGB corrections and fold them in | 08:58 |
| timeless_mbp | that of course is a royal pain | 08:58 |
| *** dieb__ has quit IRC | 08:59 | |
| timeless_mbp | because it means at some point i need to delete the enus files in my repo, and ask my repo to copy the enGB files to enUS | 08:59 |
| *** alexga has joined #maemo | 08:59 | |
| * timeless_mbp should have done it earlier | 08:59 | |
| *** jofjdi_ has joined #maemo | 09:06 | |
| *** monkeyiq has quit IRC | 09:07 | |
| * Stskeeps notes a kernel compile isn't as fun as it used to be | 09:08 | |
| *** macmaN6789 has joined #maemo | 09:08 | |
| johnx | Stskeeps, but they sure go faster these days :P | 09:10 |
| Stskeeps | i need to upgrade my working machine here really | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | i don't have my laptop anymore as it was my previous employer's so, i'm on a 1.2ghz with 384mb ram, heh | 09:11 |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 09:11 | |
| johnx | ouch | 09:11 |
| *** avs has joined #maemo | 09:11 | |
| johnx | I can post you 512MB of DDR1 | 09:12 |
| johnx | that'd be a start | 09:12 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, i do have some ram laying about | 09:12 |
| Stskeeps | i just haven't had time to upgrade the machine | 09:12 |
| johnx | but yeah, CPU/RAM/mobo combos are running ~$200 here to end up with a reasonably quick dual core AMD | 09:12 |
| *** vigneswari has quit IRC | 09:12 | |
| *** ab[out] is now known as ab | 09:13 | |
| Stskeeps | i | 09:14 |
| Stskeeps | 'll probably buy a new one over my company when time is :P | 09:14 |
| *** herzi has joined #maemo | 09:19 | |
| *** hannesw has joined #maemo | 09:22 | |
| *** jofjdi has quit IRC | 09:23 | |
| *** jofjdi_ is now known as jofjdi | 09:23 | |
| *** stemosco has joined #maemo | 09:23 | |
| *** avs has quit IRC | 09:23 | |
| *** promulo has joined #maemo | 09:30 | |
| *** avs has joined #maemo | 09:42 | |
| *** timeless_mbp has quit IRC | 09:46 | |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 09:50 | |
| *** _marcell_ has joined #maemo | 09:50 | |
| *** onion has quit IRC | 09:56 | |
| *** femorandeira has joined #maemo | 09:58 | |
| *** jrocha has joined #maemo | 10:00 | |
| *** b-man16 has joined #maemo | 10:00 | |
| *** ibane has joined #maemo | 10:02 | |
| *** L0cMini9 has joined #maemo | 10:03 | |
| *** FireFox16_ has joined #maemo | 10:04 | |
| L0cMini9 | re | 10:06 |
| *** konttori_ has quit IRC | 10:07 | |
| *** FireFox16__ has joined #maemo | 10:10 | |
| *** vasily_pupkin has quit IRC | 10:12 | |
| *** t_s_o has joined #maemo | 10:14 | |
| *** wazd has joined #maemo | 10:16 | |
| *** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo | 10:17 | |
| *** ijon_ has quit IRC | 10:20 | |
| *** b-man16 has quit IRC | 10:20 | |
| *** ijon_ has joined #maemo | 10:20 | |
| *** trickie has quit IRC | 10:21 | |
| *** trickie has joined #maemo | 10:21 | |
| *** lardman has joined #maemo | 10:22 | |
| lardman | morning all | 10:22 |
| johnx | mornin' lardman | 10:23 |
| lardman | hey johnx, how's things? | 10:23 |
| johnx | pretty good. got stuff I want to play with, but broke my tools | 10:24 |
| johnx | business as usual :) | 10:24 |
| johnx | and you? | 10:24 |
| lardman | knackered | 10:25 |
| lardman | got in at 2am last night from London/OneDotZero | 10:26 |
| lardman | but otherwise not too bad :) | 10:26 |
| *** Razumihin has joined #maemo | 10:26 | |
| aquatix | morning all | 10:27 |
| lardman | hey aquatix | 10:27 |
| johnx | lardman, was it worth it? | 10:27 |
| *** FireFox16_ has quit IRC | 10:28 | |
| lardman | was cool, saw some of the guys from here and Jussi & Harri (not sure about the spelling there) | 10:28 |
| lardman | you still in Japan? | 10:29 |
| Myrtti | lardman: looks about right | 10:29 |
| Myrtti | (the spelling) | 10:29 |
| lardman | Myrtti: thanks :) | 10:29 |
| *** t_s_o has quit IRC | 10:30 | |
| * Stskeeps yawns | 10:30 | |
| *** lpotter has joined #maemo | 10:31 | |
| * lardman wonders why DAB radios are still being sold for >£100 | 10:34 | |
| johnx | either 1) because people are still paying >£100 or 2) they really cost that much to make | 10:36 |
| *** andre810 has joined #maemo | 10:37 | |
| *** gaspa has joined #maemo | 10:38 | |
| *** eocanha has joined #maemo | 10:39 | |
| *** benh has quit IRC | 10:40 | |
| *** fnordianslip has joined #maemo | 10:40 | |
| *** sergio has joined #maemo | 10:40 | |
| *** lardman_ has joined #maemo | 10:42 | |
| lardman_ | re | 10:42 |
| *** Interocitor has joined #maemo | 10:44 | |
| *** _jason2901 has joined #maemo | 10:47 | |
| *** homeasvs_ has quit IRC | 10:48 | |
| lardman_ | also got to play with N900 at the interactive wall display :) | 10:49 |
| *** pvanhoof has joined #maemo | 10:49 | |
| Stskeeps | wow, UK actually apologized for their treatment of Turing | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page20571 | 10:50 |
| *** zz_jhford is now known as jhford | 10:50 | |
| lardman_ | anything to distract attention from more immediate matters | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | probably | 10:51 |
| *** fab has joined #maemo | 10:52 | |
| *** florian_kc has joined #maemo | 10:53 | |
| wazd | 'lo all | 10:54 |
| Stskeeps | lo wazd | 10:54 |
| *** Interocitor has quit IRC | 10:54 | |
| *** jpereira has quit IRC | 10:54 | |
| lardman_ | hi wazd | 10:54 |
| *** florian_kc is now known as florian | 10:54 | |
| *** jpereira has joined #maemo | 10:55 | |
| *** timeless_mbp has quit IRC | 10:55 | |
| *** hendry has joined #maemo | 10:55 | |
| hendry | i want to create a shortcut under the Extras menu. Could someone give me a clue where to look on the device FS? | 10:56 |
| *** blade_runner has quit IRC | 10:56 | |
| *** andre810 has quit IRC | 10:57 | |
| *** sergio has quit IRC | 10:58 | |
| *** sergio has joined #maemo | 10:58 | |
| *** lardman has quit IRC | 11:00 | |
| *** Vulcanis has quit IRC | 11:02 | |
| *** lbt has joined #maemo | 11:04 | |
| aol_ | does Maemo run Java Virtual Machine? What kind? Sun? | 11:05 |
| RST38h | aol: http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Getting_started_with_Java_on_maemo | 11:05 |
| *** khertan has joined #maemo | 11:07 | |
| Stskeeps | lo khertan | 11:07 |
| khertan | Hello everyone ! | 11:07 |
| khertan | 'lo Stskeeps | 11:08 |
| *** paroneay` has quit IRC | 11:08 | |
| wazd | RST38h: khertan: heya | 11:09 |
| *** paroneay` has joined #maemo | 11:09 | |
| RST38h | moo wazd | 11:09 |
| khertan | this morning i ve some test with hildon desktop python binding on the fremantle sdk .... segfault of python ... grrrrr | 11:09 |
| khertan | pygtkeditor segfault too ... | 11:11 |
| RST38h | Well at least I got my code compile on Fremantle SDK | 11:12 |
| RST38h | Does not look like it is possible to run anything though | 11:12 |
| *** jhford is now known as zz_jhford | 11:12 | |
| tigert | generally people build and run x86 binaries on scratchbox | 11:12 |
| tigert | then build for arm for the device | 11:13 |
| tigert | but I dont think it really works to run the arm binaries in sbox | 11:13 |
| khertan | pffff ... i ll wait to port my apps when i ll got an real device | 11:13 |
| * RST38h can't build x86 binary | 11:13 | |
| *** hellwolf-n810 has quit IRC | 11:13 | |
| khertan | and yes i targetting x86 | 11:14 |
| *** hellwolf-n810 has joined #maemo | 11:14 | |
| khertan | and using python2.5 | 11:14 |
| RST38h | With 2000+ lines of ARM assembly it becomes somewhat problematic | 11:14 |
| hendry | any clues how to create a launcher? just try personal launcher which b0rks on a brain dead dbus/machine-id problem | 11:15 |
| *** guardian has joined #maemo | 11:15 | |
| *** eocanha has quit IRC | 11:16 | |
| *** fnordianslip has quit IRC | 11:16 | |
| RST38h | restate your question | 11:17 |
| khertan | hendry: on which os ? | 11:17 |
| *** _jason2901 has quit IRC | 11:17 | |
| hendry | khertan: maemo diablo | 11:17 |
| khertan | works for me | 11:17 |
| hendry | khertan: i just want create a shortcut for GtkLauncher. I'm finding it very difficult. :) | 11:18 |
| tigert | hendry: check the example app? | 11:18 |
| tigert | I think they are in /etc/applications/ - they are done with .desktop files | 11:18 |
| tigert | but it uses maemo-launcher so try the example package | 11:19 |
| hendry | tigert: thanks | 11:20 |
| tigert | hendry: which release of maemo? | 11:20 |
| khertan | about maemo summit sponsorship ... does they have sent email about acceptation or not ? | 11:21 |
| khertan | i still didn't have any news | 11:21 |
| khertan | but maybe due to the failure of my host | 11:21 |
| khertan | as they recover 2 years of email that was deleted ... :( | 11:21 |
| tigert | hendry: https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/maemo_4.1/maemopad/data/ | 11:21 |
| tigert | hendry: maybe this helps? | 11:21 |
| tigert | it does a "service" and such | 11:22 |
| tigert | I think it is what you need to do, though I am far from being an expert on this launcher stuff | 11:22 |
| aol_ | RST38h: thanks! | 11:23 |
| *** eocanha has joined #maemo | 11:23 | |
| RST38h | wait | 11:24 |
| RST38h | You can only launch app via service if it initializes itself as a dbus service | 11:25 |
| RST38h | if it DOES NOT, you can still launch it, as an executable | 11:25 |
| RST38h | In this case you should remove Service: line from the .desktop file | 11:25 |
| *** zap has quit IRC | 11:26 | |
| hendry | RST38h: previously i used Personal Launcher where I didn't have this option | 11:26 |
| tigert | RST38h: ok good to know | 11:26 |
| *** hannesw has quit IRC | 11:26 | |
| khertan | ok on http://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/event/view/e840196271eb11deb15535a00f6d72187218/ i see that my sponsorship is accepted | 11:28 |
| khertan | but ... hey noone receive an email about acceptations ? | 11:28 |
| *** eocanha has quit IRC | 11:29 | |
| *** eocanha has joined #maemo | 11:29 | |
| *** benh has joined #maemo | 11:29 | |
| lbt | khertan: I got an email about sponsorship late yesterday | 11:29 |
| khertan | hum ... | 11:29 |
| lbt | and I sent an email to the travel agents last night | 11:29 |
| khertan | so my host lost it | 11:29 |
| lbt | and got flight details this am | 11:30 |
| *** eocanha has quit IRC | 11:30 | |
| hendry | hmm, created a .desktop file in /etc/others-menu and it's not being picked up. grr | 11:30 |
| khertan | lbt: did you know who send this email ? because maybe i should ask a resend ... | 11:30 |
| lbt | khertan: ask Jaffa when he's around, he can probably resend. | 11:30 |
| lbt | heh | 11:30 |
| khertan | lbt: thanks | 11:30 |
| *** _marcell_ has quit IRC | 11:31 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: bringing the missus? | 11:31 |
| khertan | just an advice, never use ovh hoster services | 11:31 |
| khertan | :) | 11:31 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: wasn't... but... | 11:32 |
| *** eocanha has joined #maemo | 11:32 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i just recall danish weekend so :P | 11:32 |
| lbt | we just reviewed the talks ... not much for a non-dev | 11:36 |
| lbt | (some but really not much) | 11:36 |
| lbt | and it's 3 days of talks... | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 11:37 |
| *** beatpanic has quit IRC | 11:37 | |
| RST38h | hendry: you have to update the cache | 11:38 |
| florian | good morning | 11:39 |
| hendry | RST38h: how do I do that? | 11:40 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: are you bringing yours (now you've got one) | 11:42 |
| RST38h | hendry: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=maemo+update+cache | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: not this time around, we are going to .fi together though | 11:42 |
| lbt | .fi ? | 11:43 |
| *** beavis has joined #maemo | 11:44 | |
| *** Razumihin has quit IRC | 11:49 | |
| *** Razumihin has joined #maemo | 11:49 | |
| *** hellwolf-n810 has quit IRC | 11:49 | |
| *** Free_maN has joined #maemo | 11:52 | |
| *** udovdh has quit IRC | 11:53 | |
| *** krutt has quit IRC | 11:55 | |
| *** trickie has quit IRC | 11:56 | |
| *** Andy80 has joined #maemo | 11:56 | |
| *** hellwolf has joined #maemo | 12:00 | |
| *** Jucato has quit IRC | 12:03 | |
| *** rkirti has joined #maemo | 12:04 | |
| *** sergio has quit IRC | 12:06 | |
| *** Jucato has joined #maemo | 12:07 | |
| *** hannesw has joined #maemo | 12:11 | |
| *** eichi has joined #maemo | 12:13 | |
| hendry | RST38h: http://lmgtfy.com/ is fun, though google results for me are about an icon cache | 12:15 |
| RST38h | hendry: update-desktop-database /usr/share/applications | 12:18 |
| * RST38h sighs | 12:18 | |
| *** tiagofalcao[AWAY is now known as tiagofalcao | 12:20 | |
| *** vladovg has joined #maemo | 12:20 | |
| vladovg | hi | 12:21 |
| *** sergio has joined #maemo | 12:21 | |
| *** alex-weej has joined #maemo | 12:22 | |
| *** teresa_ has joined #maemo | 12:29 | |
| *** trbs has joined #maemo | 12:31 | |
| wazd | khertan: I've received | 12:41 |
| wazd | khertan: you can use mine :D | 12:42 |
| * Stskeeps wonders where his sd cards are | 12:42 | |
| rkirti | heh | 12:48 |
| *** chx_sleeping is now known as chx | 12:50 | |
| *** dieb__ has joined #maemo | 12:54 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: when are you landing on thursday then? | 12:55 |
| *** femorandeira has quit IRC | 12:57 | |
| X-Fade | Hmm another 8 people or so requesting sponsorship without filling in _any_ other details. | 12:58 |
| *** Mc2` has quit IRC | 12:59 | |
| *** Mc2` has joined #maemo | 12:59 | |
| Stskeeps | pool been used up yet? :P | 12:59 |
| X-Fade | No idea, but getting close to the 300 limit. | 13:00 |
| *** dieb_ has quit IRC | 13:00 | |
| X-Fade | 11 places left ;) | 13:01 |
| lbt | currently 8pm | 13:01 |
| lbt | going to ask for an earlier flight | 13:01 |
| *** teresa_ has quit IRC | 13:01 | |
| *** tbf has joined #maemo | 13:02 | |
| Stskeeps | lbt: alright, i'll be in amsterdam from 2pm it seems, and flying 3pm sunday | 13:02 |
| *** alex-weej has quit IRC | 13:02 | |
| lbt | is hotel not covered for sponsorship? | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | sure it is | 13:03 |
| *** tiagofalcao has left #maemo | 13:03 | |
| lbt | "If you wish we book a hotel for you please inform us your credit card number with expire date." | 13:03 |
| *** stemosco has quit IRC | 13:03 | |
| lbt | I thought so too | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | nokia booked 40 rooms | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | or something | 13:04 |
| lbt | yup | 13:04 |
| *** _berto_ has joined #maemo | 13:04 | |
| Stskeeps | and i think it's like it was in cph then | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | well, hopefully less crazy for my pov :P | 13:05 |
| lbt | heh | 13:05 |
| *** zap has joined #maemo | 13:05 | |
| Stskeeps | anyway if you come earlier i'm up for dinner or something :p | 13:06 |
| lbt | writing back now.. | 13:07 |
| *** v6sa has joined #maemo | 13:10 | |
| X-Fade | lbt: yes, rooms are booked in advance. | 13:13 |
| X-Fade | lbt: approved people at least have a bed ;) | 13:14 |
| *** stemosco has joined #maemo | 13:14 | |
| *** vladovg has quit IRC | 13:17 | |
| wazd | X-Fade: can I replace myself with other guy? :) | 13:24 |
| lardman_ | is there a list somewhere? | 13:24 |
| *** lardman_ is now known as lardman | 13:24 | |
| wazd | X-Fade: unless he's aapproved too | 13:29 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 13:32 |
| lardman | hi Jaffa | 13:32 |
| wazd | Jaffa: heya, same question for you :) Can I replace myself with other guy? | 13:32 |
| Jaffa | wazd: Replace yourself for what? | 13:33 |
| wazd | Jaffa: in sponsorship slot :D | 13:33 |
| Jaffa | With whom? | 13:33 |
| zerojay | Michael Jordan. ;) | 13:33 |
| wazd | Jaffa: max Usachev, he's GSoC developer, he's made Mnemosyne for Maemo, really cool developer and nice guy :) | 13:33 |
| wazd | Jaffa: unless he will be approved later :) | 13:34 |
| Jaffa | wazd: The point of the sponsorship is to make sure you're there; and everyone is still being ranked on their merits | 13:34 |
| Jaffa | wazd: No decision has been made on him yet | 13:34 |
| RST38h | wazd: You should be there. | 13:35 |
| RST38h | Do not try to get away =) | 13:36 |
| wazd | Jaffa: well, I can't go anyway, there's a good probability that I'll be in the court defending my rights during the Summit :D | 13:36 |
| RST38h | wazd: ??? | 13:36 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, my army dep. still refuses to let me go, so I think I'll sue them | 13:36 |
| RST38h | wazd: Oh shit | 13:37 |
| zerojay | wazd: Wow. Even in this day and age... | 13:37 |
| RST38h | wazd: you can't get the travel passport without them ok'ing it? | 13:38 |
| wazd | zerojay: well, that's life :) | 13:38 |
| wazd | RST38h: yep | 13:38 |
| wazd | RST38h: that's why I stuck for 2 years already :) | 13:38 |
| *** Anunakin has joined #maemo | 13:38 | |
| Anunakin | Hi All! | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | else wazd would have been filthy rich already ;) | 13:38 |
| RST38h | wazd: do they want you to serve or think you know something? | 13:38 |
| wazd | RST38h: they want money :) | 13:39 |
| RST38h | wazd: that covers both cases actually =) | 13:39 |
| Captain_Picard | http://crap.fi/archive/7151.thumb2.png | 13:39 |
| wazd | RST38h: I can't serve due to family and health conditions and I don't have secrecy restrictions :) | 13:39 |
| wazd | RST38h: they just don't want to leave me alone for free :) | 13:40 |
| RST38h | wazd: Ah ok, then it should be arguable in court | 13:40 |
| RST38h | the secrecy clause would be more of a problem | 13:40 |
| *** baraujo has joined #maemo | 13:41 | |
| Anunakin | Hey, I need some help on clone to SD, the problem is, I have one partition only on SD card and maemo stay to mount internal memory under first partition (and single) on external SD, any know where to change on /etc files? | 13:42 |
| *** femorandeira has joined #maemo | 13:43 | |
| RST38h | Steve Ballmer publicly ridicules Microsoft employee with iPhone, threatens to smash it | 13:45 |
| * RST38h isn't sure whose side he would be on here | 13:46 | |
| thux | steve seems hothead :) | 13:46 |
| RST38h | Eagerly waiting for him to go reiser =) | 13:46 |
| thux | bill was more calm | 13:47 |
| lbt | RST38h: url ? | 13:47 |
| RST38h | http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/09/ballmer_spots_microsoft_employee_with_iphone_at_company_meeting.html | 13:48 |
| * RST38h wants to know how he gets to IP>0xFFFF in 16bit mode | 13:48 | |
| *** avs_ has joined #maemo | 13:50 | |
| wazd | can anybody explain me why I have blinking cursor in firefox, wherever I clicl?) | 13:50 |
| wazd | click* | 13:50 |
| *** stemosco has quit IRC | 13:50 | |
| *** chx has quit IRC | 13:51 | |
| *** avs has quit IRC | 13:52 | |
| ccooke | wazd: you've turned on caret browsing? | 13:52 |
| RST38h | wazd: You have turned on caret browsing | 13:53 |
| wazd | RST38h: how/where/why me?! | 13:53 |
| RST38h | wazd: about:config and accessibility.browsewithcaret = false | 13:54 |
| ccooke | It's currently an option named "Always use the cursor keys to navigate within pages", under the Advanced -> General tab. | 13:54 |
| ccooke | (that's firefox 3.5) | 13:54 |
| * RST38h has caret browsing off but arrows still work | 13:54 | |
| wazd | ccooke: oh, thanks! | 13:54 |
| ccooke | RST38h: with caret browsing off, they do slightly different things | 13:55 |
| Myrtti | lolwhat | 13:55 |
| wazd | RST38h: yeah, same :) | 13:55 |
| Myrtti | is the preorder price of N900 gone down in a week? | 13:55 |
| Myrtti | wow | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | how much is it now? | 13:55 |
| ccooke | (With it on, you move the cursor. With it off, you move the page) | 13:55 |
| wazd | ccooke: oooh | 13:55 |
| Myrtti | I think it was about 30€ less now than last week on kauppa.nokia.fi | 13:55 |
| ccooke | Myrtti: really? What country/place? | 13:55 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: 599€ + 7€ s/h | 13:55 |
| ccooke | I think that's the original price, still | 13:56 |
| Myrtti | I think it was like 629€ last week | 13:56 |
| Myrtti | on kauppa.nokia.fi | 13:56 |
| RST38h | That must be with .fi VAT | 13:56 |
| wazd | so many rich people out there :P | 13:56 |
| Myrtti | wazd: it's still cheaper than N97 | 13:56 |
| RST38h | wazd: Give it 3-4 months and it will be $500-$550, at least in the US | 13:57 |
| *** bilboed has joined #maemo | 13:57 | |
| ccooke | wazd: I put down money for the n900 in December. If I hadn't... no way I'd be able to afford it right now :-) | 13:57 |
| thux | wonder how many here already have n900 in their hands, 60% of people? | 13:57 |
| Myrtti | less | 13:57 |
| zerojay | No way. | 13:57 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: N97 is $550 in the US right now | 13:57 |
| zerojay | Less than 10%. | 13:58 |
| Myrtti | this channel is not nokia, nokia is not this channel | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Still 499 here - in UK - n900 | 13:58 |
| ccooke | thux: more like 0.6% :-) | 13:58 |
| X-Fade | thux: Way way less ;) | 13:58 |
| kirma | myrtti: the price in kauppa.nokia.fi was 599 euros plus delivery already on the first day it was there | 13:58 |
| khertan | thux: not me | 13:58 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: less if you pre-order at play.com. *technically* less at expansys, too, but that's a £30 voucher | 13:58 |
| Myrtti | kirma: where did I see the 629€ then...? | 13:58 |
| frals | still same price on the swedish nokia shop, 5995 swedish (about 599e) | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: ? | 13:58 |
| * ccooke preordered from Nokia, though, hoping they'll ship sooner. | 13:58 | |
| X-Fade | thux: The consumer version is not out there yet. So every metion you see are pre-production/protos probably. | 13:59 |
| zerojay | I think that when I get an N900, I'm going to need a droolguard. Anyone sell those? | 13:59 |
| kirma | indesol or something had that kind of price | 13:59 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/4-/11626538/NokiaN900SimFreeUnlocked50Megapixel32GBMobilePhone/Product.html?cur=257 | 13:59 |
| khertan | come in france ... n900 is in pre order for 649 Euros | 13:59 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=186949 | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah - 479 | 13:59 |
| Myrtti | vk.fi has 589.90€ | 13:59 |
| zerojay | Allez les Bleus! | 13:59 |
| RST38h | khertan: Yes, but it must have got SCART! | 13:59 |
| RST38h | BTW, does the French N900 output video in SECAM? | 14:00 |
| *** chx has joined #maemo | 14:00 | |
| khertan | TVA Tax 19.6% + Around 50 Euro as it s a mp3 player too so tax on everything that can have mp3 | 14:00 |
| Myrtti | *snerk* | 14:00 |
| khertan | and an other tax as it s a phone | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | 649 euros >> 479 pounds | 14:00 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: Technically I'd say play.com's is cheaper - free delivery | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | ALL PREORDERS INCLUDE FREE STANDARD SHIPPING. | 14:01 |
| khertan | it s seems that france will become soon a communist country | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | nokia | 14:01 |
| zerojay | lol | 14:01 |
| khertan | <SpeedEvil> ALL PREORDERS INCLUDE FREE STANDARD SHIPPING. <<< not on french nokia store :) | 14:01 |
| kirma | not in .fi either | 14:01 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: yes, but nokia charges the extra £20 | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: of course | 14:01 |
| ccooke | But as I said - I'm hoping they'll ship sooner than play would :-) | 14:01 |
| frals | in sweden all orders above ~200€ is free shipping from nokia.se | 14:01 |
| RST38h | khertan: Is it not yet? =) | 14:01 |
| zerojay | With the way some Americans react any time they hear the word "France", you'd think they were communist a LONG time ago. ;) | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Still - at 149 - I might have ordered - 479 - no way | 14:02 |
| khertan | RST38h: i don't think as communisme mean sharing ... at this time i'm just taxed ... not getting any services | 14:02 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: £149?! Now that's optimism! | 14:02 |
| RST38h | zerojay: Americans react this way to anybody who does not do what they want. "Communist" was simply a convenient label at the time =) | 14:02 |
| zerojay | RST38h: Agreed! | 14:02 |
| RST38h | khertan: That is not communism then | 14:02 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: still, give it a year or four and you'll probably find it for that... | 14:02 |
| khertan | 32Go = 50 Euro heighter price ... huhu | 14:02 |
| khertan | RST38h: yes ... :) | 14:03 |
| khertan | RST38h: we say in french ploutocratie | 14:03 |
| RST38h | khertan: Communism is when they take all your property and give you free health services, education, and housing =) | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: And gulags | 14:03 |
| RST38h | Without the last three things, it is just robbery =) | 14:03 |
| RST38h | Speed: that too, although they are not specific to commies, really | 14:04 |
| thux | is it true that no mms message support in n900? | 14:04 |
| RST38h | thux: Yes. | 14:04 |
| *** stemosco has joined #maemo | 14:04 | |
| RST38h | thux: Explicitely stated that they did not want to go into implementing that shit | 14:04 |
| khertan | it s like a democratie but governed by rich idiots | 14:04 |
| ccooke | RST38h: probably wise. | 14:05 |
| RST38h | ccooke: Yea, reading MMS-related standard documents can give you lifelong nightmares | 14:05 |
| zerojay | RST38h: More like there was an issue in the Linux kernel that couldn't be worked around for SMS support (which apparently now has been fixed), but.. close enough. | 14:05 |
| ccooke | I think the only time I've ever used MMS was when my phone broke and stopped sending SMS | 14:05 |
| zerojay | ER. | 14:05 |
| RST38h | zerojay: That, I suspect, was bogus. | 14:05 |
| zerojay | Yeah... mms support. | 14:05 |
| frals | I use MMS a few times a week :[ | 14:06 |
| RST38h | zerojay: Because MMS has nothing to do with the kernel | 14:06 |
| ccooke | I find myself deeply suspicious of any suggestion you'd need a kernel driver for mms support | 14:06 |
| RST38h | ccooke: Does it use SMS for notifications btw? | 14:06 |
| ccooke | frals: it should be entirely possible to write an app to do it | 14:07 |
| zerojay | RST38h: Has to do with connections implemented within the kernel from what I understand. I can't say I've looked at recent changelogs to notice what change in the kernel could possibly have made MMS possible again. | 14:07 |
| ccooke | RST38h: which it? | 14:07 |
| RST38h | zerojay: MMS runs over http protocol more or less | 14:07 |
| RST38h | ccooke: MMS | 14:07 |
| frals | yeah shouldnt be that hard | 14:07 |
| RST38h | ccooke: I mean the only kernel depdendence would be receiving incoming message notifications from the baseband chip | 14:08 |
| thux | but isn't lack of mms support means no mobile viruses then? | 14:08 |
| ccooke | zerojay: if the GSM modem is at all accessible in userland - which it will be - then it'll be possible to send SMS or MMS via it. | 14:08 |
| RST38h | ccooke: if this is done via plain SMS, then the kernel claim is totally bogus | 14:08 |
| ccooke | RST38h: depends how it's done. | 14:08 |
| frals | the way i understood it is your phone gets an SMS with an embedded link to the MMS | 14:08 |
| RST38h | frals: that is pre-MMS stuff, I think | 14:09 |
| frals | which your device should launch in a wap browser or something like that | 14:09 |
| RST38h | But it may be used for MMS as well | 14:09 |
| RST38h | zerojay: Anyway, I would take the kernel claim with a huge grain of salt | 14:09 |
| zerojay | RST38h: Looking at MMS... yeah, does seem weird. | 14:10 |
| frals | kernel claim seems unlikely, but I think I read somewhere it was due to them not wanting to "waste" time on the WAP standard | 14:10 |
| *** mauso has quit IRC | 14:10 | |
| zerojay | Maybe just a matter of them not having the time to implement it. | 14:10 |
| zerojay | Like portrait mode. | 14:10 |
| frals | yeah, id say that seems like a good reason ^^ | 14:11 |
| zerojay | And like portrait mode, I won't miss MMS a bit. :D | 14:11 |
| ccooke | frals: what do you use MMS for, by the way? | 14:11 |
| SpeedEvil | And FM reciever - | 14:11 |
| ccooke | I've never actually met anyone who used it :-) | 14:11 |
| frals | random funny stuff i encounter when im out about mostly, i mean, its not vital in any way :) | 14:12 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: that looks straight forward to get working | 14:12 |
| ccooke | frals: would sending email work just as well? | 14:12 |
| ccooke | or, indeed, SMS with a link to a web page. | 14:12 |
| Anunakin | I want one N900 too! | 14:12 |
| Anunakin | :P | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: yes - I await my N900 so I can try. Or not. :/ | 14:12 |
| RST38h | frals: Correct - they do not want to implement the whole WAP/MMS stack | 14:12 |
| ccooke | Anunakin: I think many of us do :-) | 14:12 |
| X-Fade | And uploading for Ovi or Flickr is built in. | 14:12 |
| zerojay | If I'm taking a picture of something, I'll want to share it with more than just one person, so... flickr/facebook/ovi/pixelpipe support is all I need. | 14:13 |
| X-Fade | So you can easily sent a mail with link. | 14:13 |
| frals | the thing with mms is i know everyone i send it to can view straight away in the device, while most can check their email/a website its way more effort | 14:13 |
| X-Fade | Or IM + link. | 14:13 |
| RST38h | frals: It is huge, outdated, and just plain horrible | 14:13 |
| * ccooke even has a plan to write something for it. Unfortunately, it's not something I can even tell is possible until I get my hands on the device :-) | 14:13 | |
| * RST38h never seen people use MMS | 14:13 | |
| thux | for instance if you see celebrity you can take picture and send it to seiska magazine and get cash :) | 14:13 |
| * SpeedEvil notes RST38h is commenting using a messaging system unchanged for well over a decade. | 14:13 | |
| frals | while most of the people i mms with actually have email in their phones they dont have it autochecking/push-notifications so a mms is more direct | 14:13 |
| RST38h | Speed: And proud of it. | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: outdated doesn't mean bad! | 14:14 |
| RST38h | Speed: If it ain't broken, don't fix it | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Today I am going to have anohther go setting up pppd/chat. | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | I last did this in 1998 or so when I last setup my dialup. | 14:14 |
| *** stemosco has quit IRC | 14:15 | |
| zerojay | MMS = bad. ;) | 14:15 |
| thux | i use mms every day, today sent 7 pics and received five | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Now - all I need is to find a really long bit of bamboo to strap my 3G dongle to. | 14:15 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: ... ? | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: Coverage - outdoor/variable | 14:15 |
| zerojay | thux: I don't know a single person in my real life that uses it or even knows what it is. lol | 14:16 |
| RST38h | thux: how much have you paid? | 14:16 |
| frals | i guess it depends a lot on your location, id say most people in sweden knows about it/have used it/uses it | 14:16 |
| thux | 0,39e msg | 14:16 |
| thux | when send | 14:16 |
| frals | i get like 3000 free mms each month, and the one receiving it doesnt pay either | 14:17 |
| ccooke | paying to receive any message is... insane. It *is* only the US that does that, right? | 14:17 |
| frals | i hope so | 14:18 |
| frals | good way to get people not to use it i guess | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: Unless it's opt-in-services generally in the UK | 14:19 |
| * frals goes reading the OMA MMS spec | 14:19 | |
| *** Dar_AFK is now known as Dar | 14:19 | |
| thux | here they do use it | 14:19 |
| Captain_Picard | Anunakin: !!! | 14:19 |
| ccooke | Here we go - how to send an MMS message from a GSM modem: http://www.nowsms.com/discus/messages/12/982.html | 14:19 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: that's fine, though | 14:19 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: yeah | 14:20 |
| *** ziyourenxiang has joined #maemo | 14:20 | |
| RST38h | ccooke: ok, so not different from sms, no special kernel support needed | 14:22 |
| RST38h | On the other hand, the notification process is not covered in this page | 14:22 |
| frals | http://www.openmobilealliance.org/Technical/release_program/mms_v1_3.aspx if you want the specs for it ;) | 14:23 |
| ccooke | RST38h: *nod* | 14:23 |
| Anunakin | Hey, I need some help on clone to SD, the problem is, I have one partition only on SD card and maemo stay to mount internal memory under first partition (and single) on external SD, any know where to change on /etc files? | 14:25 |
| *** hannesw has quit IRC | 14:25 | |
| ShadowJK | WAP is seriously crufty | 14:25 |
| Anunakin | Captain_Picard: ? | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | WAP is what - compressed protocol html over mms basically? | 14:25 |
| * SpeedEvil forgets the transport | 14:26 | |
| ShadowJK | not html | 14:26 |
| ShadowJK | wml | 14:26 |
| Captain_Picard | Anunakin: you buying the n900? | 14:26 |
| Anunakin | not for now... I dont live on USA or Europe! | 14:26 |
| ShadowJK | Instead of just using a subset of HTML2 for CPU and RAM-restricted machines, they had a comittee invent a whole new thing instead. | 14:26 |
| Anunakin | Captain_Picard: I just looking for buy on amazon.com | 14:27 |
| chx | SpeedEvil: no way | 14:27 |
| ShadowJK | The transport stuff seems pretty icky too, you have to establish a new GPRS connection to a dedicated APN for mms, connect to some proxy servers to send your request over WAP and... gah | 14:27 |
| chx | SpeedEvil: If memory serves, MMS came way later than WAP | 14:27 |
| ShadowJK | and WAP has the translation stuff where your operator's server modifies content according to the capabilities of your phone | 14:28 |
| chx | SpeedEvil: actually now that i look, MMS uses WAP | 14:28 |
| ShadowJK | The whole thing stinks dung, and I can't blame them for not wanting to touch it with 10-foot pole | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | you'd I think therefore need to teardown IP to do WAP? | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | /mms? | 14:30 |
| *** zerojay has quit IRC | 14:30 | |
| *** javispedro has joined #maemo | 14:31 | |
| *** zerojay has joined #maemo | 14:32 | |
| thux | i think all symbian and wince models still support mms, wonder does iphone? is iphone software osx? | 14:33 |
| frals | the 3gs does support mms afaik | 14:33 |
| thux | ok | 14:33 |
| *** alehorst has quit IRC | 14:34 | |
| * aquatix wonders why his android phone only can send contacts as mms | 14:35 | |
| *** alehorst has joined #maemo | 14:35 | |
| hendry | aquatix: what other contact formats were you expecting? | 14:36 |
| aquatix | vcard over email | 14:36 |
| aquatix | at the least :) | 14:36 |
| lardman | or over BT? | 14:36 |
| aquatix | yep | 14:36 |
| aquatix | given that android will do bluetooth obex soonish | 14:37 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, dunno, atleast on S60 you can have multiple GPRS connections open simultaneously. I can both have my phone providing internet to my tablet, and have phone connect to internet itself (with each getting their own public IP) | 14:37 |
| ShadowJK | however when I was in germany that didn't work. I guess the operator can limit the amount of GPRS connections per device | 14:38 |
| frals | uh, after reading some of the specs documents and other stuff ive concluded that mms is ugly :( | 14:38 |
| thux | is that obama's blueberry wince? | 14:39 |
| zerojay | Mms is... Yucky. | 14:39 |
| frals | but still so nice to have, but implementing it seems a bit awkward | 14:45 |
| frals | on the other hand ive never done anything sms-related (coding) either | 14:45 |
| ShadowJK | the sms part of it isn't that bad | 14:45 |
| thux | my old wince ipaq didn't support those long sms picture msgs | 14:47 |
| *** sphenxes01 has quit IRC | 14:48 | |
| thux | bw pictures 3 sms long | 14:48 |
| Corsac | do we have any news about carriers n900 availability? | 14:48 |
| zerojay | No. | 14:48 |
| *** chx has quit IRC | 14:48 | |
| zerojay | Probably not likely either. | 14:48 |
| zerojay | At least in the us. | 14:49 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 14:49 | |
| zerojay | They want to lock down or customize Maemo. Nokia says no, carriers say no. | 14:50 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 14:50 | |
| zerojay | Pretty simple really. | 14:50 |
| *** Ryback_ has joined #maemo | 14:50 | |
| zerojay | But who knows, maybe someone will take a chance. | 14:51 |
| * Jaffa doesn't understand it; since Apple doesn't let them "customise" iPhone | 14:58 | |
| ShadowJK | thux, those are called ems and completely different than mms | 14:58 |
| ShadowJK | Jaffa, ah but Apple does it for them :-) | 14:58 |
| *** dieb__ has quit IRC | 14:58 | |
| ShadowJK | just look at the voip and tethering vanishing :) | 14:58 |
| X-Fade | zerojay: There are a lot of countries where providers don't have a say in what device enters their network. | 14:59 |
| zerojay | Sure.. | 14:59 |
| X-Fade | zerojay: I can get any device subsidized over here. | 14:59 |
| zerojay | That makes sense. | 14:59 |
| ShadowJK | X-Fade, I didn't know there were places where they had a say | 14:59 |
| *** mauso has joined #maemo | 14:59 | |
| zerojay | Congrats. It's not the case here. | 15:00 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: *cough* us *cough* | 15:00 |
| AndrewFBlack | Morning | 15:00 |
| ShadowJK | X-Fade, I thought they didn't have the right to block you from using a certain device | 15:00 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: No, but they just don't offer it. | 15:01 |
| ShadowJK | Well that's different :) | 15:01 |
| X-Fade | I guess you can always get an unlocked device and use that. | 15:01 |
| ShadowJK | There are some countries where operators aren't at all involved in the business of selling devices :) | 15:01 |
| *** uzzed has joined #maemo | 15:02 | |
| zerojay | Wind is supposed to be starting up in canada soon, hopefully with euro style pricing. | 15:03 |
| khertan | having no carrier customizing is really a good things | 15:04 |
| *** lopz has quit IRC | 15:04 | |
| khertan | the orange one on n70 really slow down the phone | 15:04 |
| khertan | 5min for starting the phone | 15:04 |
| khertan | and 45s for displaying the menu | 15:05 |
| aquatix | ..wow | 15:05 |
| khertan | and it s prevent user for flashing the device | 15:05 |
| ShadowJK | my operator is now selling phones :/ | 15:05 |
| *** halves has joined #maemo | 15:05 | |
| *** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo | 15:05 | |
| ShadowJK | Luckily they advertise whether they've crippled the device or not. Most are uncrippled :) | 15:05 |
| khertan | it s require some hack just to get a working phone | 15:05 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah, the block on firmware/ota updates is one if the bigger drawbacks with operator-crippled/castrated/customized phones | 15:06 |
| khertan | and on Treo650 selled by orange, the firmware update was delayed for one year | 15:06 |
| khertan | zerojay: you said that they didn t ask for customization on iphone ... but they surely require some rules for application available on iphone store | 15:08 |
| khertan | iphone application store | 15:09 |
| *** pacopil has joined #maemo | 15:10 | |
| Jaffa | khertan: Apple say the carriers do not get involved in individual application decisions | 15:10 |
| Jaffa | (however there are rules about VoIP etc.) | 15:11 |
| *** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo | 15:11 | |
| *** pacopil has quit IRC | 15:11 | |
| khertan | Jaffa: in individual ... but for the mass ? | 15:12 |
| khertan | :) | 15:12 |
| khertan | Jaffa: hi :) | 15:12 |
| khertan | i ve a request to you ... i just see this morning that i was "officially" accepted for a sponsored travel, but i didn't got any email ... and has my hoster got problem with email, i fear that it was lost ... | 15:13 |
| khertan | if you send me any mail about the summit ... is it possible to re send me again the email ? | 15:13 |
| Jaffa | khertan: It's basically http://jaffa.tiddlyspot.com/#SponsorshipApprove | 15:13 |
| khertan | thx :) and sorry for disturbing you | 15:13 |
| khertan | > "The only travel expenses sponsored are flights" the hotel isn't sponsored ? | 15:15 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 15:15 | |
| ccooke | khertan: hotel isn't travel expenses, surely? | 15:16 |
| *** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC | 15:16 | |
| SpeedEvil | Airport fees? | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | flight VAT+... ? | 15:16 |
| *** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo | 15:17 | |
| ccooke | my reading would be: They get you tickets. That's all the cost. You pay to get to the airport, and from airport to hotel | 15:17 |
| ccooke | From what I'd read, it sounds like they pay the hotel, too. | 15:17 |
| ccooke | But once the ticket is paid for, there are no additional costs. | 15:18 |
| *** sphenxes has joined #maemo | 15:18 | |
| ccooke | OOI, How many people here have an Android phone? | 15:19 |
| khertan | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=325340#post325340 <<< it s a joke ? | 15:19 |
| *** fab has quit IRC | 15:20 | |
| *** mlpug has quit IRC | 15:20 | |
| DocScrutinizer | Hi | 15:21 |
| AndrewFBlack | khertan, yeah its a joke | 15:21 |
| ccooke | Heh. I guess I can take that as "Nobody who's here" :-) | 15:21 |
| khertan | ccooke: yep :) | 15:21 |
| ccooke | Which is a shame | 15:21 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders adding - 'I got mine - also a free puppy'. | 15:21 | |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: heh! | 15:22 |
| ccooke | There's an Android app I'm tempted to implement for the n900, but I wanted to see if people were interested | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | hi | 15:22 |
| ccooke | I guess I could explain the app, if people don't mind? | 15:22 |
| khertan | ccooke: a shame ? android is a shame ... it s works mainly with java | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you got Android on your FR? | 15:22 |
| ccooke | khertan: seen how much maemo code is in a HLL? | 15:22 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 15:23 | |
| khertan | hhl? | 15:23 |
| lardman | Java? where's crashanddie...? :) | 15:23 |
| ccooke | High Level Language - python, ruby, perl, java... | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I don't have a FR. I spent cash on the neo - and couldn't justify spending more on the FR. Small income due to disability benefits/... | 15:23 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 15:23 | |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, GTA01 | 15:24 |
| ccooke | The app I want to implement, though, is called Locale - basically, it's a pluggable event system with a drag and drop UI. | 15:24 |
| *** Anunakin has quit IRC | 15:24 | |
| ccooke | It can trigger on your location, the time, batter states, when someone calls... and can then do stuff like setting brightness, turning off wifi, sending messages, updating todo lists... | 15:25 |
| ccooke | battery states, even | 15:25 |
| ccooke | I don't think anyone's implemented a deep frying plugin yet | 15:25 |
| zerojay | Look up Shephard on tmo. | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ccooke: I'm much interested in hat | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | that | 15:26 |
| *** stemosco has joined #maemo | 15:27 | |
| lbt | ccooke: http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2009/09/grandcentral-for-mer-connecting.html | 15:28 |
| lbt | very similar concept - I've written it in python for Mer | 15:29 |
| ccooke | ISTR that maemo switched to Upstart as an init replacement | 15:29 |
| ccooke | I was planning to use that :-) | 15:30 |
| lbt | no UI - I'm more interested in getting the underlying system right - but it's perfectly reasonable to use a UI to manage the connections | 15:30 |
| ccooke | efficiency and all that | 15:30 |
| lbt | how would that work? | 15:30 |
| lbt | I see it as a dbus/signal switchboard | 15:30 |
| lbt | with multiple connections/signal | 15:30 |
| ccooke | lbt: you see what as a dbus/signal switchboard? | 15:31 |
| lbt | kinda like Qt signal/slots or any other publish/subscribe | 15:31 |
| lbt | you mentioned "Locale" | 15:31 |
| ccooke | yes. | 15:31 |
| lbt | as "a pluggable event system" | 15:31 |
| lbt | that is what ^^ my blog post is about | 15:31 |
| lbt | and what I'm working on atm for Mer (and anything else) | 15:32 |
| ccooke | yes, I read it. I wasn't sure if you meant that or Upstart | 15:32 |
| ccooke | as your "it" | 15:32 |
| lbt | sure | 15:32 |
| ccooke | both were in context :-) | 15:32 |
| ccooke | The reason I was planning on using Upstart is it already solves the backend | 15:33 |
| lbt | I can see what you mean | 15:33 |
| lbt | I'm using python for similar reasons... | 15:33 |
| ccooke | in an efficient way that doesn't require an extra daemon running | 15:33 |
| lbt | the code is minimal but provides context | 15:33 |
| ccooke | *nod* | 15:34 |
| lbt | and python will be running anyhow so .so should take care of most issues | 15:34 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 15:34 | |
| lbt | back in a sec - maybe read the post | 15:34 |
| lbt | I've got to put up some code | 15:34 |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #maemo | 15:34 | |
| lbt | would be happy to collaborate and review the design | 15:34 |
| ccooke | lbt: I'd be very interested. | 15:35 |
| *** sphenxes has quit IRC | 15:35 | |
| ccooke | the key points are making it suitable for non-technical use | 15:36 |
| *** promulo has quit IRC | 15:36 | |
| *** sphenxes has joined #maemo | 15:38 | |
| ccooke | As an example of what I'm doing with it right now: I have it changing the wallpaper whenver I'm at home, turning the brightnes sup to full when it's on charge, turning off wifi and dimming the backlight when power's low... and sending an SMS to my wife when I get near Hammersmith tube station after 4pm on a weekday (because I have a habit of working late, and it's useful for her to know when I'm on the way home) | 15:38 |
| SpeedEvil | What does the text say? | 15:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Stop! Hammersmithtime! | 15:38 |
| ccooke | ... Now I'm tempted to do that. | 15:39 |
| ccooke | I think she'll kill me :-) | 15:39 |
| jaska | lol | 15:39 |
| lbt | heh ... when I rotate my N800 camera the screen brightness goes up/down | 15:39 |
| *** stemosco has quit IRC | 15:40 | |
| lbt | syntax/UI for my config is eg: connect(camera, "Camera.active", takePhotoAfter10Secs) | 15:40 |
| *** hecklejeckle has joined #maemo | 15:40 | |
| jaska | does n800 have the light sensor? | 15:40 |
| lbt | no | 15:40 |
| ccooke | jaska: technically yes, but actually no | 15:40 |
| *** hecklejeckle has left #maemo | 15:40 | |
| ccooke | (there's an app somewhere that uses the camera as one :-) | 15:40 |
| *** mgedmin has joined #maemo | 15:41 | |
| jaska | ah, was just wondering | 15:41 |
| *** t0h has joined #maemo | 15:45 | |
| *** stemosco has joined #maemo | 15:49 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 15:53 | |
| khertan | arg ... seems there isn't many place for flight to amsterdamn for the 9th october ... :( | 15:53 |
| *** briglia has joined #maemo | 15:53 | |
| *** Komzpa has joined #maemo | 15:55 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 15:55 | |
| Jaffa | Yay, someone agrees with me about /opt/<package> :-) | 15:56 |
| *** hannesw has joined #maemo | 15:56 | |
| lardman | monkeys and typewriters...? ;) | 15:57 |
| *** fiferboy has joined #maemo | 15:57 | |
| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 15:57 | |
| Jaffa | lardman: :-p | 15:58 |
| *** renato has joined #maemo | 16:00 | |
| javispedro | 10% slowdown for unionfs? that does not make sense | 16:00 |
| *** chenca has joined #maemo | 16:01 | |
| Corsac | Jaffa: was http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#OPTADDONAPPLICATIONSOFTWAREPACKAGES already given? | 16:01 |
| Jaffa | Corsac: Yes. | 16:01 |
| Corsac | ok | 16:01 |
| Jaffa | Since /etc/opt etc. was going to be used, it was deemed hack*ier* than /opt/maemo/usr/... | 16:02 |
| *** zs has joined #maemo | 16:03 | |
| * javispedro remembers qgil's "you won't need to worry about space for applications" post | 16:03 | |
| javispedro | well, everyone is worried now ;) | 16:03 |
| * Jaffa remembered that post, and pointed it out to qgil, when he saw that there was only 100MB free on / | 16:04 | |
| *** qwerty12 has joined #maemo | 16:04 | |
| ccooke | 100MB free? I guess most of the 32G is FAT-formatted? | 16:04 |
| Jaffa | The rootfs is not on the eMMC (which is where the 32G is) | 16:05 |
| Jaffa | Some of the 32G is allocated for /home/user as ext2, and the rest is /home/user/MyDocs as vfat | 16:05 |
| *** |KaE| has joined #maemo | 16:06 | |
| luke-jr | Jaffa: you forgot swap? | 16:08 |
| javispedro | the aufs solution doesn't look awful, but it brings its own load of problems. what to do with ssu? | 16:08 |
| *** blassey1 has quit IRC | 16:09 | |
| *** Meizirkki has joined #maemo | 16:10 | |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 16:11 | |
| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: Could you check a couple things in 0.4-5 when you have some time? | 16:11 |
| * javispedro envisions the app mgr entering a special mode for ssus, disabling the unionfs and writing all over the oneNAND, then prelinking and remounting the unionfs | 16:12 | |
| javispedro | chaos would ensue | 16:14 |
| javispedro | :) | 16:14 |
| Jaffa | luke-jr: True | 16:15 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: App Manager blocks the device usage during SSU, so unmounting the union would seem fine | 16:15 |
| Jaffa | I don't know if they bother prelinking with SSUs | 16:16 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: but don't know how aufs will handle that. Imagine the user has been toying with upgraded "overlayed" system libs in eMMC. | 16:16 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: True. Maybe SSUs just go on top of the union then? | 16:17 |
| javispedro | then we are in the eeePC situation. | 16:17 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Or, it becomes two stage somehow? | 16:17 |
| javispedro | Skype both in ro branch and rw branch | 16:17 |
| *** |KaE| has left #maemo | 16:17 | |
| javispedro | nearly everything duplicated | 16:17 |
| javispedro | and (if the bad emmc relative performance is to be believed) system slowed down. | 16:17 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: True. | 16:18 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 16:18 | |
| Jaffa | javispedro: dpkg already knows if a file has been futzed with when an upgrade comes in. Use that somehow? | 16:18 |
| ccooke | shame we can't do what ipkg did | 16:19 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: probably. patched dpkg can delete it from emmc. However, uglyness increasing again :) | 16:19 |
| javispedro | ccooke: good question. what does ipkg do? | 16:19 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: True. Damnit. I'd hoped a union would save us. | 16:19 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: But then I'm not convinced by m-vo's answer to the Python packages problem | 16:20 |
| lardman | bbiab | 16:20 |
| *** lardman has quit IRC | 16:20 | |
| ccooke | javispedro: It has a concept of install bases - you can write to any of them, and it'll symlink all the files into the right place in the rootfs | 16:20 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: come to think of it, unionfs could be patched instead to use mtime to decide which file to "show". | 16:20 |
| m-vo | Jaffa, I don't think I answered anything about Python... | 16:20 |
| javispedro | (if it doesn't do that already!!) | 16:20 |
| ccooke | but that would be a separate dpkg, so... | 16:20 |
| Jaffa | m-vo: hello! :) | 16:20 |
| ccooke | javispedro: I think it can do that now. | 16:21 |
| Jaffa | m-vo: I thought you responded to one of my mails about the symlinks from one package confusing the second | 16:21 |
| javispedro | ccooke: basically, it's dpkg but with an initial maemo-optify-deb ? | 16:21 |
| m-vo | No, sounds unfamiliar... | 16:21 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: In fact, surely it must already use mtime? | 16:21 |
| javispedro | yeah, going to test now | 16:21 |
| ccooke | javispedro: in many ways, yes. Except of course, it's more *almost* dpkg | 16:21 |
| * mgedmin is scared by all this unionfs talk | 16:21 | |
| * mgedmin notes that Ubuntu at least already uses very extensive symlink trees for all Python packages | 16:22 | |
| ccooke | javispedro: the ipk format is a descendant of .deb, while ipkg is a limited replacement for dpkg and apt-get. | 16:22 |
| ccooke | hmm | 16:22 |
| ccooke | Actually, why not post-process this? | 16:22 |
| ccooke | Write a tool to use symlinks to move files out of the rootfs | 16:22 |
| ccooke | that can even be atomic, so it can run in the background. | 16:23 |
| Jaffa | m-vo: In that case, see the pyton-core and python-evolution thought experiment at http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020648.html | 16:23 |
| m-vo | will do... | 16:23 |
| *** eton has joined #maemo | 16:24 | |
| ccooke | Hmm. not in the background, it'd need to be an explicit front end. | 16:24 |
| Corsac | with a pure dpkg it'd be possible to use triggers too | 16:25 |
| ccooke | On the other hand, you could precalculate the space you'd save - even set it to an aggressiveness figure. | 16:25 |
| ccooke | so you could guarantee getting the space you need | 16:25 |
| *** jofjdi has quit IRC | 16:25 | |
| ccooke | Corsac: indeed. | 16:25 |
| m-vo | Jaffa, right that needs a good response. | 16:26 |
| javispedro | hm. aufs doesn't seem to do that by default. it is always showing the rw branch file | 16:26 |
| mgedmin | ccooke: can you atomically replace a file with a symlink? | 16:26 |
| mgedmin | symlink(2) says "If newpath exists it will not be overwritten." | 16:26 |
| timeless_mbp | fiferboy: i looked | 16:26 |
| timeless_mbp | i had a couple of comments | 16:26 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: I recall there being a way, but I'd need to double check. | 16:26 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 16:26 | |
| m-vo | There might indeed by problems if two packages contain the exact same symlink, but maemo-optify will never do that, I think. | 16:26 |
| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: Thanks | 16:26 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 16:27 | |
| javispedro | I gather it's showing the file from the first branch (as ordered in the mount call) that has it. | 16:27 |
| m-vo | It can only happen with directories, and directories are only moved if they are named after the package, which means e should be safe. | 16:27 |
| mgedmin | Jaffa: re your question on the ml: the setup had a symlink to a directory | 16:27 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: http://blog.dvl.pl/article/2009/04/18/atomic-symlink-replacement/ | 16:27 |
| mgedmin | I've heard that dpkg is very unhappy if you use symlinks to directories | 16:27 |
| m-vo | I'll read Valerie's articles. Should be great stuff, as always. | 16:28 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: maemo-optify *seems* to symlink dirs | 16:28 |
| mgedmin | it could be people were saying that exactly because of situations of the kind you described | 16:28 |
| Jaffa | Indeed. | 16:28 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 16:28 | |
| Jaffa | The idea of doing this on-device, rather than at package time is intriguing. | 16:28 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: I've used symlinks to directories for years without problems | 16:28 |
| *** wms has joined #maemo | 16:29 | |
| mgedmin | ccooke: of course! symlink to a new random temp name + atomic rename() to replace it | 16:29 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: exactly. Simple and atomic. | 16:29 |
| mgedmin | ccooke: in .deb packages you built? | 16:29 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: ah, inside the debs? Not that I recall. Sorry, misunderstood you | 16:29 |
| *** javispedro has quit IRC | 16:29 | |
| *** __t has joined #maemo | 16:30 | |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 16:30 | |
| *** jmc93739653 has joined #maemo | 16:30 | |
| Jaffa | m-vo: What'd stop maemo-optify creating a symlink for /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/evolution/ when /usr/lib/python2.5 is owned by a different package? | 16:31 |
| ccooke | Jaffa: it's safer, really. it's provable that any updates will work correctly - either they'll replace the symlink with a new file (in which case we'd need a reaper to detect the dangling links) or they'd update the files (we should keep md5s to be sure we know that happened) | 16:31 |
| *** qwerty13 has joined #maemo | 16:31 | |
| * Jaffa thinks he's encountered this kind of thing before when building up little Linux distros for his own usage (incl. 20MB bootable CDs) | 16:31 | |
| *** qwerty12 has quit IRC | 16:31 | |
| *** qwerty13 is now known as qwerty12 | 16:31 | |
| Jaffa | ccooke: Indeed. And having it not polluting the source packages appeals to me architecturally | 16:31 |
| Jaffa | Although, the thought of a package having a bug caused by the symlink on one user's device, but not the next is a little worrying. | 16:32 |
| * mgedmin wishes he kept links to all his sources and could provide references when saying "I heard that ..." | 16:32 | |
| *** mauso has left #maemo | 16:32 | |
| ccooke | Jaffa: make the tool log what its done. That'll be needed to catch dangling links, anyway - and then we can ask for the output of it when fixing bugs. | 16:33 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: Google Mind? ;-) | 16:33 |
| Jaffa | ccooke: /me nods | 16:33 |
| *** FireFox16__ has quit IRC | 16:33 | |
| ccooke | Jaffa: we'd need a GUI tool for this anyway, to enable the user to tell it to reclaim space - so include some package debug options there. Not just for what it does, either | 16:33 |
| ccooke | it's a nice and obvious place to hang arbitrary package-health-check functions. | 16:34 |
| *** ibane has quit IRC | 16:35 | |
| Macer | hello | 16:35 |
| *** danilocesar has joined #maemo | 16:36 | |
| *** jrocha has quit IRC | 16:38 | |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 16:40 | |
| *** jrocha has joined #maemo | 16:40 | |
| *** jofjdi has joined #maemo | 16:40 | |
| *** jrocha has quit IRC | 16:40 | |
| *** jrocha has joined #maemo | 16:40 | |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 16:40 | |
| ccooke | heh. Amusingly, the script I mentioned would be easily written using a shell-script-to-gui-toolkit approach. Could be done in an hour or two :-) | 16:42 |
| RST38h | Whoever has got moderator privileges at t.m.o, here is your guy: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31547 | 16:43 |
| frals | btw - relating to the MMS discussion earlier, just got an MMS! ;D | 16:43 |
| ccooke | frals: :-) | 16:44 |
| RST38h | (BTW, reporting spam postings also seems to be broken) | 16:44 |
| ccooke | RST38h: (I don't have privs, I'm jusst nosy) "No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator" | 16:44 |
| RST38h | ah, probably killed already | 16:44 |
| *** avs_ has quit IRC | 16:44 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 16:45 | |
| frals | was it the ipurchasethread? ;D | 16:45 |
| RST38h | it was the same chinese spammer, carpet bombing with long lists of gadgets at low low prices | 16:46 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 16:46 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 16:47 | |
| RST38h | has been doing it for longer than a year, too, under different accounts. Who knows what he is hoping for... | 16:47 |
| ccooke | RST38h: probably nothing. | 16:47 |
| *** ArSa has joined #maemo | 16:48 | |
| MaceN8x0 | er | 16:48 |
| MaceN8x0 | spamming for ip? | 16:48 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 16:48 |
| vesa | what's the 'proper' place to install your own files (ie stuff that you might create at runtime, images, text files etc) | 16:48 |
| *** fiferboy has quit IRC | 16:49 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 16:49 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 16:50 | |
| *** RP has quit IRC | 16:51 | |
| *** fnordianslip has joined #maemo | 16:51 | |
| ccooke | (For anyone following the discussion about putting apps onto other storage, here's the command I'd suggest to find the best candidates for offloading: 'find /usr/ -size +16k -type f -printf "%s %p\n" | sort -n' ) | 16:51 |
| ccooke | (first approximation and all that :-) | 16:51 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 16:52 | |
| ccooke | (and technically that'd be sort -rn, but it's easier for humans to parse this way) | 16:52 |
| RST38h | vesa: ~/MyDocs | 16:52 |
| RST38h | vesa: ~/.* for invisible stuff | 16:52 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: you might want atime in there too | 16:53 |
| *** fiferboy has joined #maemo | 16:53 | |
| RST38h | He only needs size really | 16:53 |
| *** disco_stu has quit IRC | 16:53 | |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: I'd hope the internal FS is mounted noatime | 16:53 |
| *** fiferboy has quit IRC | 16:53 | |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: oh - true | 16:53 |
| RST38h | And, in fact, his suggestion is somewhat incorrect | 16:53 |
| ccooke | I see I've missed off the one file system check, though | 16:53 |
| *** disco_stu has joined #maemo | 16:53 | |
| *** promulo has joined #maemo | 16:54 | |
| vesa | RST38h: isn't ~ only the 100mb? | 16:54 |
| *** promulo1 has joined #maemo | 16:54 | |
| RST38h | ccooke: As you are looking to offload whole directories, not single files, "df -R /usr | sort -rn" will suffice | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | gah, fucking finally | 16:54 |
| * Stskeeps was disconnected from the net for 2 hours | 16:54 | |
| ccooke | RST38h: I was thinking of doing both, really | 16:54 |
| RST38h | Sts: is she pretty? | 16:54 |
| ccooke | but either way works. | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: hah, good one :P | 16:55 |
| RST38h | ccooke: find option won't find directories with hundreds of tiny files | 16:55 |
| *** femorandeira has quit IRC | 16:55 | |
| *** promulo has quit IRC | 16:55 | |
| RST38h | ccooke: df | sort will simply list your directories in order of monstrosity | 16:55 |
| *** bergie has joined #maemo | 16:56 | |
| ccooke | RST38h: du, surely | 16:56 |
| RST38h | du, sorry | 16:56 |
| RST38h | my mistake | 16:56 |
| ccooke | RST38h: the problem with that is it requires more code. | 16:57 |
| *** fiferboy has joined #maemo | 16:57 | |
| RST38h | how so? | 16:57 |
| ccooke | after all, it'll first want to move the whole of /usr/, then /usr/lib, then /usr/share... | 16:57 |
| ccooke | you'd need more of a blacklist | 16:57 |
| RST38h | ccooke: Yes, but you have got a human brain to intelligently ignore these | 16:57 |
| RST38h | ccooke: And by pigeon principle there won't be many of them | 16:57 |
| *** femorandeira has joined #maemo | 16:58 | |
| ccooke | The sensible thing is to ban moving any direct descendant of /usr or /usr/local | 16:58 |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #maemo | 16:59 | |
| ccooke | Which leaves us with: | 17:00 |
| ccooke | du -x /usr/ | egrep -v "/usr/(local\/)?[^\/]*$" | sort -rn | head -20 | 17:00 |
| ccooke | (the head for readability only) | 17:00 |
| *** Wikier has quit IRC | 17:01 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 17:01 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 17:02 | |
| ccooke | (for exactness, a ^ should be added at the start of the regex) | 17:02 |
| *** javispedro has joined #maemo | 17:02 | |
| RST38h | ccooke: Now implement the same in Tcl with output done into a Tk listbox! | 17:03 |
| * RST38h explodes in diabolical laughter | 17:03 | |
| ccooke | nah. I'll do it all in shell, using /dev/tcp/localhost/6000 to open a connection to the X server and make all the X calls using echo. | 17:04 |
| *** radic has quit IRC | 17:04 | |
| javispedro | ccooke: this is not plan9 ;) | 17:05 |
| ccooke | javispedro: bah! | 17:05 |
| *** veiz has joined #maemo | 17:09 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 17:09 | |
| *** caotic has joined #maemo | 17:10 | |
| *** lardman has joined #maemo | 17:12 | |
| *** lopz has joined #maemo | 17:16 | |
| *** matt_c has joined #maemo | 17:16 | |
| *** t0h has quit IRC | 17:18 | |
| lopz | hola | 17:18 |
| *** t0h has joined #maemo | 17:18 | |
| *** radic has joined #maemo | 17:20 | |
| *** jofjdi has quit IRC | 17:21 | |
| *** ab is now known as ab[out] | 17:22 | |
| *** PhlowX has joined #maemo | 17:23 | |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 17:27 | |
| *** naba2 has quit IRC | 17:27 | |
| *** flavioribeiro has joined #maemo | 17:28 | |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 17:28 | |
| *** etrunko has joined #maemo | 17:29 | |
| *** ignacius has joined #maemo | 17:29 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 17:29 | |
| *** fnordianslip has quit IRC | 17:30 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 17:31 | |
| *** fnordianslip has joined #maemo | 17:31 | |
| *** jofjdi has joined #maemo | 17:31 | |
| *** jnettlet has joined #maemo | 17:31 | |
| *** juergbi has quit IRC | 17:34 | |
| *** blade_runner has joined #maemo | 17:36 | |
| *** juergbi has joined #maemo | 17:36 | |
| *** onion has joined #maemo | 17:39 | |
| *** aloisiojr has joined #maemo | 17:40 | |
| *** stemosco has quit IRC | 17:43 | |
| *** javispedro has quit IRC | 17:43 | |
| *** flavioribeiro has quit IRC | 17:45 | |
| *** javispedro has joined #maemo | 17:45 | |
| *** jrocha has quit IRC | 17:46 | |
| *** zpol has joined #maemo | 17:49 | |
| *** eichi has quit IRC | 17:50 | |
| *** t_s_o has joined #maemo | 17:50 | |
| RST38h | FOUND IT! | 17:53 |
| qwerty12 | Surely yours isn't that small? | 17:53 |
| wazd | qwerty12: snap! :D | 17:54 |
| qwerty12 | :p | 17:54 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 17:54 | |
| RST38h | it was a corporate one. | 17:55 |
| *** konttori has quit IRC | 17:56 | |
| lardman | hey qwerty12 | 17:56 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 17:56 | |
| *** jukey has joined #maemo | 17:56 | |
| qwerty12 | Hi lardman :) | 17:56 |
| lardman | lol @ you not recognising me :) | 17:56 |
| lardman | I'm still on the front page afaict | 17:57 |
| lardman | ;) | 17:57 |
| lardman | or maybe my cache needs a refresh :) | 17:57 |
| *** z4chh has quit IRC | 17:57 | |
| *** ignacius has quit IRC | 17:57 | |
| *** z4chh has joined #maemo | 17:58 | |
| *** aloisiojr has quit IRC | 17:58 | |
| qwerty12 | Do I look like the sort of person that carries a magnifying glass around to be able to see tiny profile pics? :) | 17:58 |
| lardman | true | 17:58 |
| *** aloisiojr has joined #maemo | 17:58 | |
| zerojay | Yes | 17:59 |
| zerojay | ;) | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | >.> | 17:59 |
| *** victorpoluceno has joined #maemo | 18:00 | |
| *** timeless_mbp has quit IRC | 18:01 | |
| qwerty12 | lardman: So, did anyone bypass lcuk's profanity filter? :) | 18:01 |
| *** GiantTalkingCow has joined #maemo | 18:05 | |
| RST38h | wazd: Just saw something weird mentioned | 18:06 |
| *** z4chh has quit IRC | 18:06 | |
| RST38h | wazd: Have you seen guys selling SIM card packages near subway stations? | 18:06 |
| lardman | qwerty12: didn't try it actually :) | 18:07 |
| lardman | have a go this evening! | 18:07 |
| *** lopz has quit IRC | 18:08 | |
| qwerty12 | :( - it was on the projectors outside as well. "Walk on, cunt" to all passers-by :) | 18:08 |
| lardman | oops | 18:09 |
| *** jsears has quit IRC | 18:09 | |
| RST38h | qwerty: ehhehehe | 18:10 |
| *** tkharju has joined #maemo | 18:11 | |
| *** femorandeira has quit IRC | 18:14 | |
| *** z4chh has joined #maemo | 18:14 | |
| *** guerby has left #maemo | 18:15 | |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 18:18 | |
| *** blassey has joined #maemo | 18:19 | |
| *** guerby has joined #maemo | 18:19 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 18:21 | |
| *** guerby has quit IRC | 18:22 | |
| *** jofjdi has quit IRC | 18:22 | |
| *** Sargun has quit IRC | 18:23 | |
| *** eocanha has quit IRC | 18:23 | |
| wazd | RST38h: yeah | 18:24 |
| RST38h | "Aerospace pioneer Burt Rutan said a few years ago that if we're not killing people, we're not pushing hard enough." | 18:24 |
| RST38h | wazd: The weird thing is, they are selling those SIMs without asking for ID | 18:25 |
| pupnik_ | heh @ burt | 18:25 |
| RST38h | wazd: Has something changed? | 18:25 |
| *** GiantTalkingCow has quit IRC | 18:25 | |
| *** zap has quit IRC | 18:26 | |
| wazd | RST38h: dunno, never asked them :) | 18:26 |
| *** jofjdi has joined #maemo | 18:27 | |
| RST38h | wazd: you probably wouldn't get a straight answer but it is weird as hell | 18:27 |
| *** victorpoluceno has quit IRC | 18:27 | |
| *** chx has joined #maemo | 18:30 | |
| *** victorpoluceno has joined #maemo | 18:30 | |
| *** gaspa has left #maemo | 18:31 | |
| wazd | RST38h: I think they only sell some cheap contracts without ID requirement | 18:31 |
| wazd | RST38h: I saw they were sending some dude to the office itself | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | or pay-as-you-go? :P | 18:31 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: we have contract scheme called pay-as-you-go-breath-sleep-and-eat :D | 18:32 |
| *** sergio has quit IRC | 18:33 | |
| *** jrocha has joined #maemo | 18:34 | |
| *** guerby has joined #maemo | 18:35 | |
| *** jukey has quit IRC | 18:38 | |
| *** ArSa has quit IRC | 18:40 | |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 18:40 | |
| lardman | if a microphone were present as a device file, say /dev/mic, could one use a GStreamer file src element to read from it? | 18:44 |
| lardman | assuming that no ioctls are required to enable or set it up, that is | 18:44 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 18:44 | |
| *** tbf has quit IRC | 18:46 | |
| *** uzzed has left #maemo | 18:48 | |
| javispedro | lardman: from looking at the src, it requires the fd to be seekable. | 18:48 |
| lardman | hmm, not ideal | 18:48 |
| *** z4chh has quit IRC | 18:48 | |
| lardman | I'll have a look at the src lists and see if there's a special one there | 18:49 |
| *** z4chh has joined #maemo | 18:49 | |
| javispedro | lardman: ah, no, sorry | 18:49 |
| *** blassey has quit IRC | 18:49 | |
| javispedro | GST_LOG_OBJECT (src, "disabling seeking, not in mmap mode and lseek failed: %s", g_strerror (errno)); | 18:49 |
| lardman | ? | 18:49 |
| javispedro | hehe | 18:49 |
| lardman | ah, so it might work | 18:49 |
| lardman | hmm, will have to give it a go | 18:49 |
| lardman | thanks :) | 18:49 |
| javispedro | mmap refers to a gstfilesrc property | 18:50 |
| lardman | mmap is disabled by default so I read | 18:50 |
| javispedro | ah, ok | 18:50 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: ping | 18:52 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 18:52 | |
| *** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo | 18:52 | |
| *** khertan has quit IRC | 18:52 | |
| lardman | hmm, I wonder if gstaudiosrc has to be subclassed | 18:54 |
| *** BluesLee has joined #maemo | 18:54 | |
| Jaffa | zerojay: pong | 18:54 |
| *** alecrim has joined #maemo | 18:56 | |
| _berto_ | http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/09/11/maemo-and-n900-many-customization-points-for-operators/ | 18:56 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: got that account handy? | 18:57 |
| qwerty12 | _berto_: Can I bribe you in infobot karma to please upload Vagalume to Fremantle's extras-devel. I miss it terribly :( | 18:57 |
| *** joelmaher has quit IRC | 18:58 | |
| *** AndrewFBlack has quit IRC | 18:58 | |
| *** joelmaher has joined #maemo | 19:00 | |
| *** alexga has quit IRC | 19:00 | |
| _berto_ | qwerty12: i haven't made the port yet :( | 19:01 |
| *** jjmarin has joined #maemo | 19:01 | |
| _berto_ | qwerty12: hopefully this month | 19:01 |
| qwerty12 | Thanks :) | 19:01 |
| _berto_ | the svn trunk comes with libre.fm support btw | 19:02 |
| qwerty12 | libre.fm doesn't have any artists that I like :) | 19:02 |
| _berto_ | :D | 19:03 |
| RST38h | remoo | 19:03 |
| *** bergie has quit IRC | 19:03 | |
| Stskeeps | singing stallman? | 19:03 |
| javispedro | priceless. | 19:04 |
| qwerty12 | (Probably a good thing to the rest of you, I'm guessing, I'm always criticized on my choice of music no matter where I go..) | 19:04 |
| _berto_ | that happens to me too | 19:04 |
| _berto_ | :d | 19:04 |
| * Stskeeps subscribes to last.fm and is happy. | 19:04 | |
| RST38h | singing rms vs ms piggy deathmatch | 19:05 |
| *** z4chh has quit IRC | 19:05 | |
| _berto_ | i'm a subscriber too | 19:05 |
| *** z4chh has joined #maemo | 19:05 | |
| zerojay | I used to be. | 19:06 |
| zerojay | Back when you got nothing in return. | 19:06 |
| zerojay | And now... Just the finger. | 19:06 |
| *** Free_maN has quit IRC | 19:07 | |
| *** BluesLee has quit IRC | 19:07 | |
| *** yerga has joined #maemo | 19:09 | |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 19:09 | |
| frals | hmm, preordered my n900 from a swedish site, they have delivery date preliminiary as 30th of october | 19:10 |
| frals | hope they are just being cautious and setting a future one so it wont be delayed... or something ;o | 19:10 |
| * mgedmin cries | 19:10 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 19:10 | |
| *** alecrim has quit IRC | 19:11 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 19:11 | |
| *** alecrim has joined #maemo | 19:13 | |
| *** eton has quit IRC | 19:17 | |
| *** Mozillion has joined #maemo | 19:19 | |
| *** jdav_gone has quit IRC | 19:19 | |
| *** Dar is now known as Dar_AFK | 19:19 | |
| *** trofi has joined #maemo | 19:21 | |
| *** z4chh has quit IRC | 19:22 | |
| *** z4chh has joined #maemo | 19:22 | |
| *** trbs has quit IRC | 19:23 | |
| *** t0h has quit IRC | 19:23 | |
| *** t0h has joined #maemo | 19:24 | |
| *** vladovg has joined #maemo | 19:24 | |
| *** jdav_gone has joined #maemo | 19:30 | |
| *** guardian has quit IRC | 19:32 | |
| *** Sargun has joined #maemo | 19:32 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 19:36 | |
| *** mandara has joined #maemo | 19:37 | |
| *** z4chh has quit IRC | 19:39 | |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 19:40 | |
| *** z4chh has joined #maemo | 19:40 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 19:40 | |
| *** slonopotamus has joined #maemo | 19:40 | |
| *** stv0 has joined #maemo | 19:40 | |
| pupnik_ | http://www.theprodukkt.com/kkrieger everybody seen this 96 KiloBYTE demo/game? | 19:44 |
| *** zz_jhford is now known as jhford | 19:45 | |
| ccooke | Impressive... | 19:46 |
| luke-jr | pupnik_: Windows = fail | 19:47 |
| ccooke | luke-jr: It remains an impressive thing to acheive. | 19:48 |
| luke-jr | ccooke: what? | 19:49 |
| luke-jr | a small filesize? when everyone has GBs of space? | 19:49 |
| luke-jr | it demands 512 MB RAM. that's where space saving is more needed | 19:50 |
| derf | Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on | 19:50 |
| derf | /dev/sda5 90G 90G 27M 100% / | 19:50 |
| ccooke | luke-jr: Why? When *everyone* has GBs of RAM? :-) | 19:50 |
| javispedro | ccooke: well, my 1990 laptop doesn't, and the N900 does not either. | 19:50 |
| derf | I generally have more free RAM than diskspace. | 19:50 |
| derf | Mem: 2072732k total, 1639800k used, 432932k free, 53052k buffers | 19:50 |
| luke-jr | ccooke: most people here have at least one computer with merely 128 MB RAM | 19:50 |
| ccooke | javispedro: Technically, the n900 does... | 19:51 |
| luke-jr | also, RAM use adds up | 19:51 |
| luke-jr | ccooke: technically, the N900 doesn't | 19:51 |
| luke-jr | swap may be memory, but it sure isn't RAM | 19:51 |
| derf | /dev/mtdblock4 251.5M 244.1M 7.4M 97% / | 19:51 |
| ccooke | luke-jr: Depends on which technicalities you're talking about | 19:51 |
| Proteous | FIGHT! | 19:51 |
| derf | Mem: 111640K used, 15188K free, 0K shrd, 512K buff, 55556K cached | 19:51 |
| derf | Still twice as much free RAM as disk space. | 19:51 |
| derf | On the N810. | 19:52 |
| GAN800 | Passport done finally. | 19:52 |
| Stskeeps | so we'll see you in amsterdam? :) | 19:52 |
| derf | And that's not even counting cache, which is basically free RAM. | 19:53 |
| *** __t has quit IRC | 19:53 | |
| ShadowJK | doesn't it get slow with so little space left? | 19:53 |
| lardman | cu later chaps | 19:53 |
| *** lardman has quit IRC | 19:53 | |
| ccooke | luke-jr: The thing is, it remains an impressive thing to do. To manage it - even if they need moderate amounts of RAM - and 512M is *moderate* today - is not easy. | 19:53 |
| ccooke | Hmm. Too many -s. | 19:53 |
| Mozillion | is it normal that the app manager in maemo5 beta sdk is empty and the extras/extras-devel catalogues cannot be added? | 19:54 |
| javispedro | Mozillion: fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot-net | 19:54 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, assuming it gets here. | 19:54 |
| ShadowJK | ccooke, 96k? Don't tell me they've given up with the 4k and 64k contest categories now? :) | 19:54 |
| Mozillion | javispedro: oh! | 19:54 |
| pupnik_ | that is a stunning achievement. 96kbyte. sound. 3d engine. textures. game. | 19:54 |
| ccooke | ShadowJK: those are impressive too. Often more so. | 19:54 |
| *** jpereira has quit IRC | 19:54 | |
| derf | pupnik_: 3d engine? Does this one actually not use OpenGL? | 19:55 |
| luke-jr | pupnik_: they use DirectX | 19:55 |
| ccooke | ShadowJK: Personally I love some of the 4K things. | 19:55 |
| luke-jr | derf: DirectX | 19:55 |
| pupnik_ | ok right directx does a lot of the transforms for them | 19:55 |
| pupnik_ | still | 19:55 |
| Mozillion | javispedro: heh, wow.. that was simple.. thanks | 19:55 |
| derf | Yeah. When you had your 4k demo with all-software rendering, it was impressive. | 19:55 |
| *** jjmarin has quit IRC | 19:55 | |
| ShadowJK | I know some guys who made a 64k demo. They squeezed in their own software synthesizer, to have better music than what directmusic gave :) | 19:55 |
| Mozillion | javispedro: is it recommended that I not put extras/extras-devel in /etc/apt/sources.list then? | 19:55 |
| * ShadowJK sighs | 19:55 | |
| ccooke | ShadowJK: heh, nice. | 19:56 |
| ShadowJK | freenode :-) | 19:56 |
| javispedro | Mozillion: do as you wish :) | 19:56 |
| *** promulo1 has quit IRC | 19:56 | |
| zerojay | Gan800: same issue here. | 19:56 |
| * mgedmin was very impressed by the 4K demo Atrium last year (iirc?) | 19:57 | |
| *** veiz has quit IRC | 19:58 | |
| *** vladovg has quit IRC | 19:58 | |
| ccooke | mgedmin: oh, I remember that one. Very nice. | 19:58 |
| mgedmin | the mp3 version of the soundtrack is 5 megs | 19:59 |
| ccooke | *grin* | 19:59 |
| *** gunni_ has joined #maemo | 19:59 | |
| ccooke | It's amazing what can be done | 20:00 |
| *** Andy80 has quit IRC | 20:00 | |
| *** Anunakin has joined #maemo | 20:00 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 20:01 | |
| coldboot | How do I redirect away from scratchbox's gdb? I tried putting an entry in SBOX_REDIRECT_BINARIES, both ways, and it didn't work immediately after exporting the env variable. | 20:01 |
| *** geaaru has quit IRC | 20:01 | |
| coldboot | I installed a good version of gdb in /usr/local/bin/gdb | 20:01 |
| Anunakin | I need some help on clone OS to SD, the problem is, I have one partition only on SD card and maemo stay to mount internal memory under first partition (and single) on external SD, any know where to change on /etc files? | 20:01 |
| javispedro | coldboot: using fully qualified path to launch gdb? scratchbox's utils are in $PATH | 20:02 |
| *** _berto_ has quit IRC | 20:03 | |
| coldboot | How would I detect if I'm in scratchbox from within ~/.profile? | 20:04 |
| mgedmin | coldboot: env tells me that scratchbox sets a bunch of environment vars | 20:05 |
| *** lcuk has joined #maemo | 20:05 | |
| mgedmin | e.g. _SBOX_DIR=/scratchbox | 20:05 |
| mgedmin | SBOX_UNAME_MACHINE=arm | 20:05 |
| coldboot | Yeah ~/.profile doesn't get executed when I start scratchbox, but somehow my custom PATH directives that are set in there get transferred... | 20:06 |
| Anunakin | coldboot: I make it on my sbox | 20:06 |
| Anunakin | coldboot: My ~/.profile has it: | 20:06 |
| Anunakin | export PS1='\[\033[01;33m\]${target}\[\033[01;31m\] \W \$\[\033[00m\] ' | 20:06 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 20:06 | |
| mgedmin | well ~/.profile inside scratchbox is different from the one outside | 20:07 |
| Anunakin | my .profile works well | 20:07 |
| *** flavioribeiro has joined #maemo | 20:07 | |
| Anunakin | I see it | 20:07 |
| mgedmin | I thought maybe you were symlinking or bind-mounting them together | 20:07 |
| *** t_s_o has quit IRC | 20:07 | |
| Anunakin | "DIABLO_ARMEL pidgin-2.6.5-alfa $" | 20:07 |
| Mozillion | hrm, "hildon-desktop[4191]: GLIB CRITICAL ** Clutter - clutter_actor_destroy: CLUTTER_IS_ACTOR(0x9b5b710) FAILED" when clicking in the app manager on any app.. checking the BTS | 20:08 |
| *** udovdh has joined #maemo | 20:09 | |
| *** promulo has joined #maemo | 20:09 | |
| *** TheJere has joined #maemo | 20:09 | |
| Anunakin | coldboot: Have you made another .profile insede sbox? | 20:12 |
| Anunakin | inside | 20:12 |
| coldboot | Anunakin: I bind mounted my home directory so it's the same home inside scratchbox. | 20:13 |
| Anunakin | hum | 20:13 |
| coldboot | Maybe someone should put gdb 6.8 in scratchbox, instead of 6.4, which can't break inside C++ constructors. | 20:14 |
| Anunakin | I never tried in this way, I have a folder "~/dev" bind mounted inside sbox | 20:15 |
| *** jjmarin has joined #maemo | 20:15 | |
| *** chx is now known as chx_food | 20:15 | |
| coldboot | Yeah just bind mount your whole home so it's like scratchbox 2. | 20:15 |
| coldboot | Except don't use Scratchbox 2 because it barely works. | 20:15 |
| Anunakin | and update python 2.3 on sbox to 2.5 or newer, too | 20:16 |
| mgedmin | I have a ~/scratchbox symlink pointing to /scratchbox/users/.../home/.../ | 20:16 |
| coldboot | Also don't `rm -rf` your scratchbox directory, because it'll trash your home directory, you have to unmount it first. I learned that the hard way. | 20:16 |
| mgedmin | oop | 20:16 |
| mgedmin | s | 20:16 |
| Anunakin | shit | 20:16 |
| *** jofjdi has quit IRC | 20:17 | |
| Anunakin | Anyone has a working google street url to use on maemo-mapper? | 20:18 |
| *** TheJere has quit IRC | 20:18 | |
| coldboot | Okay this is retarded. | 20:18 |
| coldboot | Scratchbox is intercepting my calls directly to /usr/local/bin/gdb | 20:19 |
| mgedmin | Anunakin: does the one you get when you download repositories from the net stop working? | 20:19 |
| *** Anunakin has quit IRC | 20:19 | |
| *** Khertan_n810 has joined #maemo | 20:19 | |
| pupnik_ | is there a vmware image for n900 sdk? | 20:19 |
| mgedmin | ask a question, run away | 20:19 |
| coldboot | I did this: `cd gdb-6.8; gdb/gdb; (it says 6.8); cp gdb/gdb /usr/local/bin/gdb; /usr/local/bin/gdb; (it says 6.4, what the hell?)` | 20:19 |
| Khertan_n810 | Hi ! (again) | 20:19 |
| pupnik_ | hi Khertan_n810 | 20:20 |
| *** lardman has joined #maemo | 20:20 | |
| Khertan_n810 | Content is not allowed in prolog << does this gdata error message mean something for you ? | 20:20 |
| mgedmin | coldboot: SBOX_REDIRECT_FROM_DIRS=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin | 20:20 |
| Khertan_n810 | pupnik_ i didn t found any | 20:20 |
| mgedmin | coldboot: I suggest putting ~/bin in $PATH | 20:20 |
| coldboot | mgedmin: How do you edit that so it doesn't come up? | 20:20 |
| Khertan_n810 | pupnik_ and my try was unsuccessfull | 20:20 |
| *** Anunakin has joined #maemo | 20:21 | |
| mgedmin | coldboot: no clue, never tried this | 20:21 |
| *** lcuk2 has quit IRC | 20:21 | |
| Khertan_n810 | pupnik_ but if you do one, i ll be happy to use it :) | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | I think I remember people blogging/posting to mailing lists about how to work around scratchbox binary redirection | 20:21 |
| *** jofjdi has joined #maemo | 20:21 | |
| mgedmin | don't ask me for a link, though | 20:21 |
| *** igagis has joined #maemo | 20:22 | |
| *** gunni has quit IRC | 20:22 | |
| mgedmin | this thing I just recently saw when I was looking at env|sort inside scratchbox | 20:22 |
| pupnik_ | Khertan_n810: asking for a vmware image is lame and lazy though. i'd estimate not a lot of code has come out of them. | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | I wonder if you can change those env vars and affect sb's behaviour while inside it | 20:22 |
| *** aSIMULAter has joined #maemo | 20:22 | |
| coldboot | mgedmin: I put gdb in ~/bin, and ~/bin is in my path, and NOT in the redirect, and when I run gdb it's still redirected. | 20:22 |
| coldboot | So it's redirecting literal calls that are supposed to resolve to PATH as well. | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | is ~bin in front of $PATH or at the end? | 20:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | Content is not allowed in prolog <<< arg and google search is unable to found me a valuable answer | 20:22 |
| coldboot | mgedmin: It's in front, which gdb says: ~/bin/gdb | 20:23 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 20:23 |
| Khertan_n810 | pupnik_ ? i code on my nit and i still need a setup to test in a vm :) | 20:23 |
| coldboot | When I type ~/bin/gdb, it's correct, when I type gdb, it's wrong. | 20:23 |
| coldboot | Scratchbox is such a piece of crap. | 20:23 |
| mgedmin | yeah | 20:23 |
| pupnik_ | can you improve it?? | 20:23 |
| coldboot | It's got crappy, idiotic version of software installed for it, and you can't override anything. | 20:23 |
| coldboot | I'd rather just write software for a different platform. | 20:24 |
| Anunakin | yeah | 20:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | pupnik_ improve what google search ? | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | :) | 20:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 20:24 |
| Anunakin | But I got gcc 4 working on another computer | 20:24 |
| *** baze has joined #maemo | 20:25 | |
| Khertan_n810 | ~ping | 20:25 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:25 |
| ccooke | Hmm. People seen this? http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/nokia-clarifies-n900-can-be-customized/2009-09-11?utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss&cmp-id=OTC-RSS-FW0 | 20:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | ~ping | 20:26 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:26 |
| Anunakin | ~dong | 20:26 |
| infobot | ding | 20:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | cooke craps ! | 20:26 |
| zerojay | Fries are done. | 20:26 |
| Anunakin | I compiled pidgin 2.6.2 here, I see it has video and audio suport now, but I need more updated libs | 20:27 |
| *** ziyourenxiang has quit IRC | 20:27 | |
| Khertan_n810 | zerojay ... each time i think about fries it remember me asking at a restaurant at the maemo summit : what is french fries | 20:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 20:27 |
| ccooke | Reading it, it seems Nokia *may* be saying nothing new: It says "It would be absolutely incorrect to assume that we will not offer operators the ability to tailor future Maemo devices to suit their needs." | 20:27 |
| ccooke | ... which we knew. | 20:27 |
| * Khertan_n810 is french ... and fries arent french | 20:27 | |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 20:27 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 20:27 | |
| zerojay | Yeah, "french" means "frenched", a way of cutting the fries. | 20:28 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 20:28 | |
| Khertan_n810 | yep a bit like saying white chocolate .... this is not made with cocoa _) | 20:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | cacao | 20:30 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 20:30 |
| Khertan_n810 | Content is not allowed in prolog ... gdata really need more clear error msgs | 20:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | ~ping | 20:34 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:34 |
| Anunakin | I wants see my maemo loaing on text mode, how can I do it? any knows? | 20:36 |
| *** pH5 has joined #maemo | 20:39 | |
| *** zimmerle has joined #maemo | 20:41 | |
| *** trbs2 has joined #maemo | 20:44 | |
| *** Khertan_n810 has quit IRC | 20:46 | |
| *** danilocesar has quit IRC | 20:46 | |
| coldboot | Great, setting watchpoints in gdb 6.8 in Maemo hangs the program. | 20:48 |
| *** zs has quit IRC | 20:49 | |
| *** jrocha has quit IRC | 20:49 | |
| *** jrocha has joined #maemo | 20:49 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 20:52 | |
| lardman | ok, so this is probably old news, but what's with the Fremantle SDK error when installing on Ubuntu that goes like this?: E: Scratchbox bind mount for user not present. | 20:52 |
| *** Guest68839 has joined #maemo | 20:52 | |
| *** Luke-Jr2 has quit IRC | 20:52 | |
| *** t0h has quit IRC | 20:54 | |
| *** qwerty12 has quit IRC | 20:54 | |
| *** t0h has joined #maemo | 20:55 | |
| *** Guest68839 has quit IRC | 20:55 | |
| *** mikie has joined #maemo | 20:55 | |
| lardman | hmm, can't even login and proceed manually: ERROR: Scratchbox is not properly set up! | 20:56 |
| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 20:56 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 20:58 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 20:58 | |
| *** hellwolf has quit IRC | 21:00 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 21:02 | |
| *** filip42 has joined #maemo | 21:02 | |
| *** lardman has quit IRC | 21:02 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 21:02 | |
| *** guardian has joined #maemo | 21:03 | |
| *** AD-N770 has joined #maemo | 21:03 | |
| *** SpeedEvil has quit IRC | 21:04 | |
| *** __t has joined #maemo | 21:06 | |
| *** L0cMini9 has quit IRC | 21:07 | |
| *** jmc93739653 has quit IRC | 21:07 | |
| *** chx_food is now known as chx | 21:08 | |
| fnordianslip | interesting - i've just been setting up my new sheevaplug and note that i can run powertop on it. has anyone got powertop running on their N900s yet? | 21:11 |
| *** filip42 has left #maemo | 21:11 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 21:12 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 21:13 | |
| *** baze has quit IRC | 21:13 | |
| keesj | fnordianslip: the janty port or something else? | 21:16 |
| fnordianslip | keesj: yep, its jaunty on the plug | 21:17 |
| *** ShellEvil has joined #maemo | 21:17 | |
| * keesj also has a plug (running this irc session :p ) | 21:17 | |
| fnordianslip | although it has a 2.6.30.2 kernel | 21:18 |
| fnordianslip | ooh. cool. got mine today ;-) | 21:18 |
| *** t_s_o has joined #maemo | 21:18 | |
| keesj | still the default kernel 2.6.22.18 | 21:19 |
| fnordianslip | just need the N900 to keep it company | 21:19 |
| keesj | 32 day's uptime | 21:19 |
| fnordianslip | are you in #openplug too? | 21:20 |
| Anunakin | where? | 21:20 |
| fnordianslip | freenode | 21:20 |
| Anunakin | no where to buy N900? | 21:20 |
| fnordianslip | oh, i preordered with nokia in uk | 21:21 |
| *** Luke-Jr2 has joined #maemo | 21:23 | |
| *** jjmarin has left #maemo | 21:23 | |
| *** Meizirkki has quit IRC | 21:24 | |
| keesj | fnordianslip: no | 21:25 |
| fnordianslip | keesj: have you tried booting from the SDHC card on the plug? i'm tempted to run the installer again and get a rootfs on the SD card and use that instead of the MTD | 21:27 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 21:27 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 21:28 | |
| *** trofi has quit IRC | 21:28 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 21:29 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 21:30 | |
| keesj | fnordianslip: no I have so many gadgets and projects ... all I really did wat a little jtag debugging on it and then put it in production | 21:30 |
| keesj | I did see picture of the back of the N900 when opened and there where many exposed test point. I wonder what they do | 21:30 |
| fnordianslip | keesj: np. me too.i have 5 computing devices within arms reach here in the lunge | 21:31 |
| fnordianslip | lounge, even | 21:31 |
| *** hetz has joined #maemo | 21:32 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 21:32 | |
| keesj | this was my last project http://www.flickr.com/photos/51025379@N00/3661174674/ a 100 euro arm laptop | 21:32 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 21:33 | |
| hetz | Hi | 21:33 |
| hetz | Question: If a developer wants to submit a new N900 app to OVI, is it possible? | 21:34 |
| *** lardman has joined #maemo | 21:34 | |
| mgedmin | hetz: if it's an open-source app, I'd suggest submitting it to Maemo Extras | 21:35 |
| mgedmin | if it's not, then your question is interesting, but I've no clue about the answer | 21:35 |
| mgedmin | AFAIU from watching various presentations that's the plan: have ovi distribute apps for maemo | 21:36 |
| hetz | and if it's closed? I'm trying to write a post comparing android/iphone/maemo submitting methods | 21:36 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 21:36 | |
| mgedmin | I don't know if it's possible now, or if it will only become possible at some time in the future | 21:36 |
| ShadowJK | I heard the sd is a bit unreliable | 21:36 |
| ShadowJK | on sheeva | 21:36 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 21:37 | |
| fnordianslip | ShadowJK: oh,right. maybe i'll see if i can get away with cramming a build system into the MTD then, and mount an NFS share for source trees for builds | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | hm, was sheevaplug armv5 or armv6+vfp or armv7? | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | i keep on forgetting | 21:39 |
| *** hetz has quit IRC | 21:39 | |
| keesj | armv5 | 21:40 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 21:40 |
| *** jpereira has joined #maemo | 21:40 | |
| pupnik_ | i'm still impressed how much -fprofile-use helped amiga emu | 21:41 |
| pupnik_ | i wish everybody tried it | 21:41 |
| *** smackpotato has joined #maemo | 21:41 | |
| *** hellwolf has joined #maemo | 21:41 | |
| keesj | pupnik_: will do ! | 21:44 |
| ShadowJK | fnordianslip, I'm using a USB hub and usb stick myself | 21:44 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 21:46 | |
| Anunakin | pupnik_: maybe it works on x48? | 21:48 |
| fnordianslip | ShadowJK: I'll keep that in mind. cheers | 21:48 |
| ShadowJK | I think the default uboot doesn't support SD also :) | 21:48 |
| Anunakin | because x48 works nice on Zaurus... and it runs very slow on N8xx | 21:48 |
| javispedro | is that the hp48 emu? | 21:49 |
| *** zpol is now known as lopz | 21:49 | |
| Anunakin | yes | 21:49 |
| fnordianslip | ShadowJK: i guess i'm not using the default u-boot as I've installed with installer v1.0 | 21:49 |
| javispedro | it did run at an acceptable speed in my palm t|x | 21:49 |
| Anunakin | javispedro: yes | 21:49 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 21:49 |
| pupnik_ | i wish someone would figure out how to do 50 or 60hz vsync'd tear-free screen updates | 21:50 |
| Anunakin | javispedro: I used on my PSP too | 21:50 |
| Anunakin | and at nice speed | 21:50 |
| pupnik_ | at 1/2 res | 21:50 |
| ShadowJK | fnordianslip, btw, "ukki" here has a .deb for accessing sheevaplug with N8x0 through N8x0 host mode USB port to sheeva's debug port :) | 21:50 |
| dottedmag | Accessing sheeva from n900 would like like using phone while it is charging. | 21:51 |
| dottedmag | *look like | 21:51 |
| fnordianslip | ShadowJK: that's interesting | 21:51 |
| slonopotamus | Sep 11 18:50:58 DSME: CAL ERROR: non-user block 'root_device' found in a user area | 21:52 |
| slonopotamus | yikes | 21:52 |
| keesj | I want to plug my logic analyzer to maemo http://www.saleae.com/logic/gallery/ | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: what'd you kill? :P | 21:52 |
| *** dieb_ has joined #maemo | 21:52 | |
| keesj | more using the nxxx to display logic signals | 21:53 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, everything works :) i learned how to write to CAL. the problem is that i'm choosing wrong places. | 21:53 |
| *** trofi has joined #maemo | 21:53 | |
| *** elninja has joined #maemo | 21:55 | |
| *** Firebird has joined #maemo | 21:56 | |
| *** L0cMini9 has joined #maemo | 21:56 | |
| *** elninja has joined #maemo | 21:56 | |
| t_s_o | so the mobile phone is slowly transforming itself into a mobile social portal... | 22:00 |
| ShadowJK | slowly? | 22:00 |
| *** jrocha has quit IRC | 22:00 | |
| *** jrocha has joined #maemo | 22:01 | |
| t_s_o | or maybe it have always been that way, its just that its gone beyond voice and text to also include images and video, especially from one to one onto one to many... | 22:01 |
| * ShadowJK 's only use for the mobile phone since 2005 has been irc&internet in pocket | 22:01 | |
| t_s_o | irc? highly dependant on screen size, especially if its a high traffic channel... | 22:01 |
| pupnik_ | http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/009/08/n900_specifications_beyond_your_wildest_imaginations.htm | 22:01 |
| pupnik_ | hehe | 22:01 |
| ShadowJK | t_s_o, my nearly-dead E70 could fit 80 columns of text :-) | 22:02 |
| ShadowJK | it was perfect for ssh too | 22:02 |
| t_s_o | i wonder about the font size then... | 22:02 |
| ShadowJK | a special 6pixel font ;) | 22:02 |
| ShadowJK | or 7 | 22:02 |
| t_s_o | heh, how long until one get phone docks with video out and keyboard/mouse in? | 22:03 |
| RST38h | WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE!!! | 22:03 |
| ShadowJK | You know, right, that the N900 comes with TV-out cable as standard? | 22:03 |
| RST38h | (but not before N666 comes out) | 22:03 |
| *** Sho_ has joined #maemo | 22:03 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 22:04 | |
| *** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik | 22:04 | |
| t_s_o | indeed i know, but i was thinking about a brick that had 1-2 cables to plug in, and 5-6 going out that was permanently attached to objects on the desktop... | 22:04 |
| ShadowJK | on N8x0 you can fit huge amounts of text with sane font sizes where there's enough pixels to eliminate ambiguity | 22:04 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 22:04 | |
| ShadowJK | ah :P | 22:04 |
| ShadowJK | on my new E75 that I obtained to replace the nearly-dead E70, the screen resolution is less, so I have to use a font that's almost like block of pixels | 22:05 |
| ShadowJK | but if you force yourself to use it, you quickly learn what the patterns are ;) | 22:05 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: You sound almost like you are using 3x5 font on Spectrum... | 22:06 |
| ShellEvil | 3x5? Luxury! | 22:06 |
| ShellEvil | :) | 22:06 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, well the resolution on S60 these days isn't much better than spectrum | 22:06 |
| *** L0cMini9 has quit IRC | 22:06 | |
| ShadowJK | S60v3 I mean | 22:07 |
| ShadowJK | S60v5 is a bit better, but software compatibility is a bit so-so I've heard | 22:07 |
| RST38h | software is incompatible | 22:08 |
| *** flavioribeiro has quit IRC | 22:08 | |
| *** MrGoose has joined #maemo | 22:08 | |
| ShadowJK | heh :) | 22:08 |
| * ShadowJK hugs maemo | 22:08 | |
| * dottedmag points at gtk->qt transition :) | 22:09 | |
| *** zap has joined #maemo | 22:11 | |
| ShadowJK | dottedmag, there will be tar and feathers (and I know where they just made 1000 litres this summer) if they don't have a new osso-xterm ;) | 22:12 |
| *** _jason1842 has joined #maemo | 22:12 | |
| pupnik | The Maemo tablets are now on par with high-end Nokia Nseries devices and soundly beat the pants off iPhones and Blackberries." :) | 22:14 |
| *** eichi has joined #maemo | 22:14 | |
| RST38h | that we will have to see | 22:14 |
| RST38h | but I still think that blackberry is not unreachable | 22:15 |
| *** hecklejeckle has joined #maemo | 22:15 | |
| *** hecklejeckle has left #maemo | 22:15 | |
| RST38h | implement same functionality, make deals with a few large companies, maybe supplying N900s as an added value in some larger contract on communication equipment | 22:16 |
| *** jnettlet has quit IRC | 22:16 | |
| *** jnettlet has joined #maemo | 22:17 | |
| *** jefe_186 has joined #maemo | 22:17 | |
| ShadowJK | Their existing customers of that kind will only buy it if it's Nokia's new "Communicator"-class. So they'd have to make a new N900, call it N9000, make it a bit bigger because the Communicator class is like americans and SUVs; screw practicality and logic, make it big and heavy so that people can see you paid stupid amounts of money | 22:18 |
| ShadowJK | where "a bit" means twice as big | 22:18 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 22:18 |
| mgedmin | I always thought "tiny and shiny" screamed about stupid amounts of money | 22:18 |
| *** wms has quit IRC | 22:18 | |
| ShadowJK | Yeah if I had more money I'd get a Smart car | 22:19 |
| mavhc | put 2 apple logos on it, those things cost $100s each apparently | 22:19 |
| frals | all the smarts ive seen around has screamed "death trap" | 22:19 |
| RST38h | blackberries are pretty small though | 22:19 |
| mavhc | frals: only in usa where they're on the same road as the tanks people there drive | 22:20 |
| *** jefe_186 has left #maemo | 22:20 | |
| *** TheJere has joined #maemo | 22:20 | |
| keesj | pupnik: any good url about profile-use? | 22:20 |
| frals | i wouldnt want to be in one crashing in to anything except maybe a fiat punto | 22:20 |
| frals | any volvo would crush the smart as it seems to have about zero deformation zones | 22:21 |
| ShellEvil | It is apparantly very rigid. | 22:21 |
| mavhc | if it killed you they couldn't sell it | 22:21 |
| RST38h | does smart do pretty well in crash tests? | 22:21 |
| frals | only seen the tiny 2 seaters thou - do they have any bigger model? | 22:21 |
| *** __t has quit IRC | 22:22 | |
| RST38h | yea | 22:22 |
| GAN800 | I bet the car does, but the people inside may be another issue. | 22:22 |
| RST38h | there is smart-for-2 and smart-for-4 | 22:22 |
| ShellEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s | 22:22 |
| ShellEvil | smart | 22:22 |
| ShadowJK | Apparently smart has a five-star crash test rating | 22:22 |
| RST38h | out of 12? | 22:22 |
| ShadowJK | 5 | 22:22 |
| frals | what does volvo have then, a 100? :D | 22:22 |
| frals | cool | 22:22 |
| GAN800 | But only against other Smarts. | 22:23 |
| ShellEvil | Including 70MPH crash into a wall | 22:23 |
| GAN800 | When you pit it against SUVs there's no data left to collect. | 22:23 |
| ShellEvil | R/C fun. | 22:23 |
| mavhc | are SUVs more wall like than walls? | 22:23 |
| ShadowJK | But you know, take a Volvo in the US, bring it to europe for crash testing, and it probably gets two stars. Take a five-star volvo from europe to US for crash testing and it probably gets 2 stars. Car manufacturers are slimey assholes and only design the cars for the tests :-) | 22:23 |
| GAN800 | mavhc, SUVs are moving. | 22:24 |
| GAN800 | So, yes. | 22:24 |
| RST38h | GAN: Hate to disappoint you but there is a catch with US SUVs | 22:24 |
| mavhc | so you want a 140 mph wall crash test? | 22:24 |
| RST38h | GAN: Many of them are basically trucks with passenger cabs | 22:24 |
| GAN800 | No, I want a practical car. :D | 22:24 |
| GAN800 | RST38h, not many, most. | 22:24 |
| RST38h | GAN: Because they are rated as trucks, manufacturers can skip on safety | 22:24 |
| RST38h | GAN: Yep | 22:25 |
| slonopotamus | cal_read_block(wlan-iq-align): size zero, block not found? | 22:25 |
| slonopotamus | yikes | 22:25 |
| GAN800 | Only the very small ones like the RAV 4 and CRV are based on car platforms. | 22:25 |
| RST38h | GAN: And the ones that are not, have minivan-like problems (a hit into the side is really nad in them, as they expose big, soft surface on the sides) | 22:26 |
| slonopotamus | how i repair CAL area? :) | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | It's funny how bad SUVs are on bad roads | 22:26 |
| GAN800 | RST38h, but you've completely missed the point of my SUV example. | 22:26 |
| RST38h | GAN: CRV is actually considered a truck | 22:26 |
| frals | hmm watch that smart vid | 22:26 |
| GAN800 | It's an Accord frame. | 22:26 |
| frals | not much legs left after that concrete smash | 22:26 |
| RST38h | GAN: Dunno why, it is an Accord with the mechanics from 4WD Civic | 22:26 |
| RST38h | GAN: Real bad in side impact, unfortunately. | 22:27 |
| GAN800 | The reason I mention the SUV is because those are the vehicless that you have to contend with in accidents here, not because I believe them to be safer vehicles. :) | 22:27 |
| RST38h | GAN: But yes, if you are hitting a Smart in a 3-ton SUV, Smart stands no chance | 22:27 |
| *** EdLin has joined #maemo | 22:27 | |
| *** stv0 has left #maemo | 22:28 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 22:28 | |
| ShellEvil | Depends. | 22:29 |
| ShellEvil | If the impact speed is low enough that you care about body damage - to the car - you may well be OK | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | like that episode of mythbusters where they tried to smash a compact car by putting it in the middle between two semitrucks speeding towards eachother | 22:30 |
| ShellEvil | I mean - body deformation | 22:30 |
| *** jrocha has quit IRC | 22:30 | |
| *** amaurymedeiros has joined #maemo | 22:30 | |
| ShellEvil | If you care about decelleration to the humans inside - then you need mass*crumplezones | 22:30 |
| slonopotamus | does n8x0 brick if you erase CAL data? :) | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | possibly. | 22:31 |
| *** jrocha has joined #maemo | 22:31 | |
| Stskeeps | partition table is there | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | afaik | 22:31 |
| mgedmin | every time people talk about CAL, I assume it's about Maemo 5 calendaring software | 22:31 |
| slonopotamus | is it reflashable? | 22:31 |
| *** Luke-Jr2 has quit IRC | 22:32 | |
| mgedmin | which makes some of the statements funny | 22:32 |
| slonopotamus | mgedmin, /dev/mtd3. | 22:32 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 22:32 | |
| *** Luke-Jr2 has joined #maemo | 22:33 | |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: i'm not sure if you are able to recover from a dead CAL, but i'm not sure | 22:34 |
| *** zimmerle has quit IRC | 22:34 | |
| *** chenca1 has joined #maemo | 22:34 | |
| slonopotamus | hmm | 22:34 |
| * Stskeeps personally wouldn't risk it | 22:35 | |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, didn't partition layout change in diablo? | 22:35 |
| *** qwerty12 has joined #Maemo | 22:36 | |
| slonopotamus | mgedmin, mtd1 i meant | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: true | 22:39 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, did it change bootloader/config area? | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | i have no idea tbh | 22:41 |
| *** chenca1 has quit IRC | 22:42 | |
| slonopotamus | meh. i possibly should create cold flash cable before destroying stuff :) | 22:44 |
| pupnik | hope to see maemo on 150 euro phones someday | 22:44 |
| lbt | ccooke: hi | 22:45 |
| adeus | as soon as the realize symbian is a dead end.. | 22:45 |
| RST38h | will they? | 22:45 |
| lbt | symbian is being made OSS | 22:45 |
| *** AD-N770 has quit IRC | 22:46 | |
| * lbt thinks it will be handed over to "the community" | 22:46 | |
| adeus | "the community" should burn it with fire | 22:46 |
| *** _jason1842 has quit IRC | 22:46 | |
| pupnik | who here has coded for symbian? | 22:46 |
| lbt | and used if nokia product managers deem it appropriate | 22:46 |
| RST38h | lbt: What is worse, judging from the new logo design, the remaining Symbian team is on some heavy drugs | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | wouldn't you be if you developed symbian? | 22:47 |
| * lbt is just guessing from a symbian presentation I saw a few weeks ago | 22:47 | |
| * RST38h codes for symbian | 22:47 | |
| lbt | heh | 22:47 |
| lbt | figures | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | i meant, developing the system | 22:47 |
| adeus | I have | 22:47 |
| adeus | right now I code qt for the s60 | 22:47 |
| lbt | RST38h:never mind.... you've got to make a good decision one day | 22:47 |
| RST38h | adeus: Have they finally introduced main()? =) | 22:47 |
| RST38h | Or is it still 4-5 classes just to show "hello world"? | 22:48 |
| zerojay | Lol | 22:48 |
| adeus | of course it is | 22:48 |
| adeus | but in qt it's happy campers | 22:48 |
| zerojay | If he makes money on symbian still, how is it not a good decision? | 22:48 |
| adeus | the make most of the money with s40:s | 22:48 |
| adeus | they | 22:49 |
| * RST38h abstracted most of ÿï«ï½ÿï¸ÿÿÿ ÿÿÿï½ | 22:49 | |
| RST38h | Symbian away | 22:49 |
| adeus | right now I use the N97 which is the flagship of symbian probably | 22:49 |
| adeus | and it still feels and looks like a symbian thing | 22:50 |
| adeus | compared to the N900 home screen this is bitch ass ugly | 22:50 |
| ShadowJK | Oh, with tne N97 mini they made the rootfs bigger. Why isn't anyone whining about why "we" didn't get bigger rootfs on N900 ;p | 22:50 |
| *** acouto has joined #maemo | 22:50 | |
| RST38h | S60 may be ugly, but it is perfectly usable | 22:50 |
| ccooke | lbt: ah, you're back | 22:51 |
| RST38h | So I would not bury it right away | 22:51 |
| lbt | yup | 22:51 |
| adeus | and they won't | 22:51 |
| ccooke | S60 is a mature platform. Maemo simply can't compete with it in most of the niches it's deployed | 22:52 |
| adeus | and there's quite a lot of software for it done | 22:52 |
| ccooke | (small screen, cheap devices, for a start!) | 22:52 |
| RST38h | Weeeelll | 22:52 |
| mgedmin | how important is 3rd party software on a phone? | 22:52 |
| mgedmin | are there any studies? | 22:52 |
| RST38h | Maemo is really easy to develop for so it is not that difficult to get it up to speed | 22:52 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: My crystal balls say 90% of people use phones to call other peple | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | do people buy devices because they can install random apps, or do they buy devices because the devices do what they want out of the box? | 22:53 |
| RST38h | Second | 22:53 |
| adeus | personally I want SportsTracker for my N900 :) | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | geeks like me buy devices because they run linux | 22:53 |
| ccooke | RST38h: but you don't make a change like that all at once. You do it piecemeal, and usually picking a starting point - say, high-end smartphones - and expanding. | 22:53 |
| RST38h | ccooke: Hence 5-step plan | 22:53 |
| ShellEvil | Or high-end-unlocked-geek smartphones | 22:54 |
| ccooke | RST38h: more than that. Unless the wait for step 5 is much longer than they've mentioned, anyway | 22:54 |
| ShadowJK | mgedmin, if it came preinstalled with everything I wanted, maybe... nah.. besides, nobody would make phone with preinstalled ssh, vnc, irc, etc :P | 22:54 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 22:54 | |
| ShellEvil | IMO nokia has a bigger problem if they start too slow | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | ShadowJK: OpenMoko tried | 22:54 |
| ShellEvil | mgedmin: no, they diddn';t. | 22:54 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: this is actually relatively easy to estimate | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | but even I didn't want to buy that one... | 22:54 |
| RST38h | mgedminL look at sales of cheap voice-oriented phones vs sales of feature phone vs sales of smartphones | 22:55 |
| ShellEvil | mgedmin: They _really_ diddn't. OpenMoko claimed they were trying - however - they diddn't actually do sane things that would have lead to an actual product. | 22:55 |
| ShadowJK | if openmoko had a keyboard I'd probably have one | 22:55 |
| ccooke | ShellEvil: thing is... remember that Nokia are still the world leader in phones. | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | if openmoko had working software, I'd've bought one | 22:55 |
| ShellEvil | mgedmin: OpenMoko had hardware and software that could have lead to a working phone in christmas 2007. | 22:55 |
| ccooke | They have enough of a lead to take it slowly... but not *too* slowly. | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | software is *hard* | 22:56 |
| ShellEvil | mgedmin: But they utterly blew it through bad managment. | 22:56 |
| ccooke | ShellEvil: how unusual for a bunch of geeks :-/ | 22:56 |
| RST38h | ShellEvil: If mommy had balls she would be daddy | 22:56 |
| mgedmin | look how long it took for maemo to almost-not-suck | 22:56 |
| adeus | ccooke, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_mobile_phones | 22:56 |
| ShellEvil | mgedmin: by working software I mean stuff like a working dialer, SMS, ... and linux. I do not mean a fully polished app suite. | 22:56 |
| adeus | that's a good stat always to remember :) | 22:56 |
| ccooke | adeus: yep | 22:57 |
| adeus | t+ | 22:57 |
| adeus | 200M | 22:57 |
| adeus | that's almost insane | 22:57 |
| mgedmin | okay, I admit I used the word "working" in the sense "fully polished" | 22:57 |
| ShadowJK | ooh, Nokia 2100 :D | 22:57 |
| ShellEvil | RST38h: I'm attempting to point out that OpenMoko is a poor example due to their bad managment. For example changing window stacks 3 times. And insisting that new hardware would fix it all | 22:57 |
| adeus | at one point everyone in filnand had a 3310 | 22:57 |
| adeus | Finland.. | 22:57 |
| mgedmin | although IIRC the phone software used to crash a lot, which is not "working" even by your definition | 22:57 |
| *** VDVsx has joined #maemo | 22:58 | |
| ShellEvil | mgedmin: In march 2007 it was stable enough for me - then that software stack got thrown away | 22:58 |
| RST38h | ShellEvil: Doesn't this happen to all linux gadget startups? | 22:58 |
| ccooke | RST38h: no, just the ones you hear about most ;-) | 22:58 |
| ShellEvil | RST38h: perhaps - this one had structural problems in the place they established - the corporate culture was _very_ anti-open-source. | 22:58 |
| RST38h | ah | 22:58 |
| ShadowJK | You know what's awesome about nokia's lowend phones? They're indestructible. A guy at work lost his phone. He tracked his movements of the day, and concluded it must've fallen into the lake on his fishing trip. After some searching he found it on the bottom of the lake and fished it up, removed the battery and sim card and let it sit for a couple of days, put back the card and battery, and it just worked(tm) | 22:59 |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 22:59 | |
| RST38h | how did he find it? | 22:59 |
| *** eichi has quit IRC | 22:59 | |
| mavhc | he didn't track the gps on a website | 22:59 |
| ShellEvil | RST38h: But - for example - a new UI stack getting dropped on the community - with the only notice being the company president a couple of months beforehand saying 'something really cool is coming up' - you have to _really_ try hard to screw up to that sort of degree. | 23:00 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, it had fallen out near the shore when he lifted up the engine when the water became too shallow | 23:00 |
| RST38h | ahhh | 23:00 |
| RST38h | lucky | 23:00 |
| adeus | ShadowJK, I once dropped my 3310 into a pint of beer | 23:00 |
| adeus | dried it, and still worked just fine | 23:00 |
| * ShadowJK once coughed on his siemens cellphone | 23:01 | |
| ccooke | Actually, my n810 has survived a fair bit of water | 23:01 |
| frals | 3310 was indestructible | 23:01 |
| ShadowJK | it died | 23:01 |
| ShadowJK | (true story) | 23:01 |
| ccooke | although not immersion :-) | 23:01 |
| adeus | I've visited the lab here that tests the durability | 23:02 |
| adeus | they do quite a lot | 23:02 |
| ShadowJK | there's a video of one of the labs, on youtube :) | 23:02 |
| ccooke | (I usually keep it in my shirt pocket... and got caught out by the most sudden and severe rainstorm I can remember... while I had both my hands full. Technically, it was under about an inch of water in my pocket (yes, literally) for about five minutes while I got to the tube station | 23:03 |
| pupnik | http://openpandora.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/new_keymat.jpg new keymat | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | the highspeed camera view of the drop test is awesome :D | 23:03 |
| *** javispedro has quit IRC | 23:03 | |
| pupnik | is there online video of n900 mp4 recordings? | 23:03 |
| slonopotamus | hmm. usb<->rs232 cable is just $5 | 23:04 |
| ccooke | a few days with the battery out, though, and it's absolutely fine. Although I'd swear the battery shrunk - it's a little loose, and I find now that I have to put a bit of wadded up paper in the compartment to stop a sudden knock powering me it off :-) | 23:04 |
| frals | :D | 23:05 |
| *** L0cMini9 has joined #maemo | 23:05 | |
| ccooke | How I didn't notice this before I have no idea. Thus I am left to conclude that it must have shrunk :-) | 23:05 |
| ShellEvil | Water isn't that bad. What I recommend is: Dissasemble as much as possible - wash in hot water with detergent - getting as much under the chips as you can. Rinse in hot distilled water. Dry in oven at 80C for a day. | 23:05 |
| ShellEvil | This is of course if it's dirty or salty water. | 23:06 |
| *** chenca has quit IRC | 23:06 | |
| ShadowJK | ccooke, did you have the typical rattle before immersion? :) | 23:06 |
| ShellEvil | And always yank the battery immediately | 23:06 |
| *** JoeBrain has joined #maemo | 23:06 | |
| *** jnettlet has quit IRC | 23:06 | |
| ccooke | ShellEvil: I was on my way to a LARP event. Campsite for three days. I just took the battery out and tried it again every now and then | 23:06 |
| ShellEvil | If it's just clean water - then simply the oven step | 23:07 |
| ShellEvil | or a hot place with lots of airflow | 23:08 |
| ShellEvil | airing cupboard is good. | 23:08 |
| *** ustunozgur_ has joined #maemo | 23:08 | |
| *** jofjdi has quit IRC | 23:08 | |
| ccooke | (actually, the level of brokenness was interesting to see: flickering brightness while it was still wet, then no backlight the first time I tried it, then flickering video on the way home... I thought for a while it was permanently broken, until I realised it was the battery being loose. | 23:08 |
| ccooke | ShellEvil: distilled water helps, if you have it | 23:08 |
| ShellEvil | ccooke: I have several bottles - from my dehumidifier. | 23:09 |
| ShellEvil | It's not exactly the same thing - but it's pretty pure | 23:09 |
| ShellEvil | _lots_ higher resistance - fewer ionic solids - than my tapwater | 23:10 |
| *** zimmerle has joined #maemo | 23:13 | |
| *** mgedmin has quit IRC | 23:14 | |
| *** jpereira has quit IRC | 23:14 | |
| *** FireFox16__ has joined #maemo | 23:16 | |
| *** jrocha has quit IRC | 23:21 | |
| *** jrocha has joined #maemo | 23:22 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 23:23 | |
| *** jnettlet has joined #maemo | 23:26 | |
| *** mandara has quit IRC | 23:26 | |
| *** aloisiojr has quit IRC | 23:27 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 23:31 | |
| *** javispedro has joined #maemo | 23:31 | |
| *** geaaru has joined #maemo | 23:31 | |
| *** qwerty12 has quit IRC | 23:31 | |
| *** fiferboy has quit IRC | 23:31 | |
| *** qwerty12 has joined #Maemo | 23:32 | |
| *** halves_ has joined #maemo | 23:33 | |
| *** Anunakin has quit IRC | 23:33 | |
| *** halves has quit IRC | 23:33 | |
| *** aloisiojr has joined #maemo | 23:41 | |
| *** mandara has joined #maemo | 23:43 | |
| *** florian has joined #maemo | 23:45 | |
| *** mandara has quit IRC | 23:45 | |
| *** Nik_ has joined #maemo | 23:46 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo | 23:49 | |
| *** Komzpa has quit IRC | 23:50 | |
| *** Komzpa has joined #maemo | 23:50 | |
| *** baraujo has quit IRC | 23:51 | |
| *** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC | 23:53 | |
| *** JoeBrain_ has joined #maemo | 23:59 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
