IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-09-08

*** konttori has joined #maemo00:01
*** univac has quit IRC00:03
*** lolf has quit IRC00:03
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC00:03
*** Kode_ has quit IRC00:03
*** mk8 has quit IRC00:03
*** florian has quit IRC00:03
*** kozak has quit IRC00:03
*** keesj has quit IRC00:03
*** brut- has quit IRC00:03
*** mavhc has quit IRC00:03
*** zer0mdq has quit IRC00:03
*** guysoft422 has quit IRC00:03
*** lcuk has quit IRC00:03
*** Dasajev has quit IRC00:03
*** Milhouse has quit IRC00:03
*** suihkulokki has quit IRC00:03
*** imhotep has quit IRC00:03
*** thux has quit IRC00:03
*** ssvb has quit IRC00:03
*** jeremiah has quit IRC00:03
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC00:03
*** sp3000 has quit IRC00:03
*** zokier has quit IRC00:03
*** hap has quit IRC00:03
*** pyhimys has quit IRC00:03
*** coldboot has quit IRC00:03
*** konttori__ has quit IRC00:03
*** thopiekar has quit IRC00:04
*** univac has joined #maemo00:04
*** lolf has joined #maemo00:04
*** stv0 has quit IRC00:04
*** Kode_ has joined #maemo00:04
*** mk8 has joined #maemo00:04
*** florian has joined #maemo00:04
*** kozak has joined #maemo00:04
*** keesj has joined #maemo00:04
*** brut- has joined #maemo00:04
*** mavhc has joined #maemo00:04
*** zer0mdq has joined #maemo00:04
*** guysoft422 has joined #maemo00:04
*** lcuk has joined #maemo00:04
*** Dasajev has joined #maemo00:04
*** Milhouse has joined #maemo00:04
*** suihkulokki has joined #maemo00:04
*** imhotep has joined #maemo00:04
*** thux has joined #maemo00:04
*** dolphin has quit IRC00:05
*** jeremiah has joined #maemo00:06
*** pyhimys has joined #maemo00:06
*** sp3000 has joined #maemo00:06
*** hap has joined #maemo00:06
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo00:09
*** zokier has joined #maemo00:10
*** aSIMULAtor has quit IRC00:11
*** lardman|afk is now known as lardman00:13
lardmanhi chaps00:14
*** smackpotato has quit IRC00:14
* AStorm has to unfreeze some money for the N90000:15
*** jrocha has joined #maemo00:16
mgedminAStorm: have you found a place that actually sells them?00:19
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s00:19
*** konttori has quit IRC00:20
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]00:20
AStormmgedmin: locally? they're on preorder, duh00:22
AStormshould be available in October00:22
*** eichi__ has joined #maemo00:23
mgedmingood for you ...00:23
AStormdamn it, my bank changed the savings account rules for the worse00:23
mavhchow many times more expensive than n810 on release is it?00:23
AStormhave to find a better bank ;P00:23
*** JamieBennett has quit IRC00:24
AStormmavhc: hard to say, it's 599 Euro vs 499 Euro00:24
lardmanis there a UK price yet?00:24
* lardman wanders to the site00:24
AStormyes, I think Ł49900:24
mavhcn810 was 499?00:25
lardmanyet £499 it is00:25
lardmanoh dear why do I bother trying to type00:25
AStormmavhc: yes, it was I think00:25
AStormbut Google or Wikipedia might remember better than me00:26
mavhcdo you code with those fingers?00:26
lardmanyeah :)00:26
mavhctabletblog said $45000:27
lardmanI wonder if the £ price will go down if the strength of the Euro decays...?00:27
mavhcI'll wait for it to halve in price00:27
*** alex-weej has quit IRC00:29
*** MrGoose has left #maemo00:29
*** Komzpa has quit IRC00:32
lardmanhow do I send an irc message to someone? I.e. if he's not online atm. Is that possible?00:34
Mekyou can somehow use memoserv for that I think00:35
lardmanok, I'll do some Googling, thanks00:35
AStormlardman: /msg memoserv help00:35
AStormbut people tend to ignore it quite a bit00:35
mavhcand what's the usa price for n900?00:35
lardmanAStorm: yeah, but better than nothing00:36
AStormmavhc: nobody knows yet00:36
AStormlardman: and no, the prices aren't tied00:36
*** dreamer_ has quit IRC00:37
AStormmavhc: it'll probably never halve in price00:37
mavhcso 45% more expensive for it to be a phone00:37
lardmanhmm, not a registered nick, not ideal00:38
AStormand have a real camera00:38
*** victorpoluceno has quit IRC00:38
AStormand faster cpu, more flash, etc.00:38
lardmanmavhc: yeah strange isn't it that phones are always really dear00:38
ShadowJKphone with >2x the cpu power :)00:38
ShadowJKand 2x the ram :)00:38
lardmanyeah, but just in general00:38
mavhcAStorm: but all that's just technology progressing in the past few years00:38
AStormand hopefully less sucky GPS00:38
AStormmavhc: yes, but remember that you're comparing it with old tech00:39
mavhcat original prices00:39
ShadowJKprobably the same gps, I bet ;p00:39
AStormShadowJK: likely not, different chip00:39
mavhclardman: I have to assume that testing/licensing of something costs loads00:39
AStormyeah, they had to find a good modem and get that radio agency approval in the EU and US00:40
lardmanmavhc: yeah00:40
ShadowJKthe radios and stuff cost about 100-150 separately, without power management finesse :)00:40
ShadowJKif you buy chinese00:40
*** ShellEvil has joined #maemo00:40
AStormand are lucky enough to get one with a working Linux driver00:40
AStormyou still get to build that one... and for 2.6.19? (or was it 2.6.21)00:41
lardmanI thought they tend to be black boxes00:41
AStormnot always00:41
ShadowJKiirc Nokia sent driver for one of their own hsdpa modems to upstream lniux kernel00:41
lardmanat least the ones that are exposed to mere *users*! :)00:41
mavhcyou don't just send it AT commands?00:41
AStormstandard-compliant ones support CDC-ACM00:41
AStormand look like normal modems00:42
AStormextra stuff though like SMS and signal power...00:42
ShellEvilAnd have fun undocumented extensions.00:42
AStormsometimes documented00:42
* ShellEvil points at the huwai e22000:42
mavhcwhat about $20 phones?00:42
AStormthose are subsidized00:43
* ShellEvil is currently needing to recieve a SMS through the e220 that uses a non-standard interface apparantly00:43
AStormor have *old* hardware00:43
ShadowJKthey dont speak anything sensible00:43
ShellEvil$20 ones from ebay do00:43
ShadowJKno data support at all typically00:43
ShellEvil$20 ones from ebay can have serial out00:43
AStormserial out is not good... need a dongle00:43
AStormand the protocol might not be standard AT00:43
*** stv0 has joined #maemo00:43
ShellEvilAStorm: there are lists of phones with serial outs on the intarwebs.00:44
ShellEviland yes.00:44
AStormalso, connecting by wire is hell00:44
AStormwhile BT+HSPA phones are expensive and usually have short battery life00:45
ShadowJKdepends what you do :)00:45
*** booiiing has quit IRC00:45
AStormlike stay connected? ;P00:45
AStormit eats battery like a call00:45
ShadowJKmine stays connected a few days00:46
AStorm(which means ~4h on my Samsung U700 and that's a fairly good time)00:46
AStormShadowJK: no no, not just "stay", actually use the connection00:46
AStormI can stay on hspa for some weeks00:46
ShadowJKirc? :)00:46
AStormassuming nothing actually is using the connection00:46
AStormyes, irc eats the battery as usual00:46
ShadowJKdownloading at hspa speeds consumes like a call :)00:48
AStormis EDGE also UMTS or not?00:49
ShadowJKand using phone as wifi ap eats shitloads on most things because it's ad-hoc which has no powersaving00:49
ShadowJKno it's gsm00:49
luke-jrwifi powersaving is a bad joke anyway00:49
AStormoh, so I could just disable UMTS and it might live longer00:49
ShadowJKgsm:  gprs, edge00:49
AStormhey, I connect via bluetooth ;p00:49
ShadowJK3g: umts, hsdpa, hsupa00:49
AStormso hspa doesn't give me much if anything anyway00:49
AStorm(stupid phone claiming BT 2.1 EDR but not delivering)00:50
AStorm(either that, or n810 doesn't support it)00:50
ShadowJKbluetooth between some of my devices has a tendency to randomly cripple powersaing too. I tend to monitor use and reconnect if it eats alot of power00:50
*** L0cMini9 has quit IRC00:51
AStormhow would I check for that?00:51
ShadowJKWell I've downloaded at >1mbit/s n810-bluetooth-phone, so n810 does support edr00:51
ShadowJKon s60 there's "energy profiler" and on n810 some googling should yield "ftd"00:52
AStormbut I doubt I could squeeze out anything better out of that phone00:57
AStormand yes, it's the phone claiming EDR and not delivering more than 384 kbps00:58
AStorm(USB works fast)00:58
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo01:00
*** _berto_ has quit IRC01:00
ShadowJKwifi psm works good enough for me anyway, when n810 eats 20mA idling with xchat open :)01:00
*** fnordianslip has quit IRC01:00
* ShadowJK has idea on how to improve it..01:00
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo01:00
*** stv0 has left #maemo01:01
AStormShadowJK: lucky you, it eats far more here, maybe my IRC is more... busy ;P01:02
*** Kode_ has left #maemo01:02
AStormnote that I'm connecting via an ssh tunnel01:02
*** kaw1 has joined #maemo01:02
*** Kode_ has joined #maemo01:03
ShadowJKYeah, it eats more during busy days01:03
AStormhmm, seems I'll have to move my investment to a savings account in another bank :/01:04
AStormwhat a mess01:04
ShadowJKif you make another program to sit on your ssh server, and on tablet, that batches messages, then there'd be less wakeups01:04
ShadowJKonly batch when screen off / idle, of course01:04
ShadowJKidea is to save up, say, 10 seconds of traffic into one single bigger chunk instead of trickling it one line at a time01:05
lardmanyou could batch when the fg app is not the one that is using the connection01:05
*** t0h has quit IRC01:05
*** zz_jhford is now known as jhford01:06
*** t0h has joined #maemo01:06
AStormShadowJK: yeah, and have IRC lag by 10s01:06
ShadowJKlardman: that takes actual effort though01:06
AStorman excellent idea ;P01:06
ShadowJKastorm: only whe screen is off01:06
*** mojocafe has joined #maemo01:06
ShadowJKand you dont notice it01:06
AStormShadowJK: what screen?01:06
mojocafegooood evening everyone01:06
AStormI'm using dircproxy there01:06
ShadowJKthe tablet's screen01:06
AStormah that01:06
lardmanlike the clock not updating when the screen is off01:06
mojocafeaaaah - long time no see !01:07
AStormthen I could just disconnect I guess01:07
AStormmojocafe: hello back! :)01:07
ShadowJKyeah dircproxy can send you what you missed when you reconnect :)01:07
mojocafeJesus i havent been in here for ages. But now i am back and i have a BOMB with me :)01:07
AStormShadowJK: to a limit.01:07
AStormI'll have to improve its notifications etc.01:07
AStormand log resend capabilities01:08
mojocafeOh my gosh, the last time i was in here, there was an average of 50 people in here now we have a mob !01:08
kaw1Hello all. Anyone know how to recover if the mail application on the N810 continually crashes when started? Short of re-flashing, that is.   Perhaps delete some settings files via the terminal?01:08
AStormbut that's for later01:08
lardmanmojocafe: when were you last in?01:08
AStormmojocafe: mob of idlers? ;>01:08
mojocafelardman: 1974 i think.01:08
mojocafe*just kidding*01:08
RST38hOOk, ALSA fixed01:09
AStormkaw1: do you have all the latest updates?01:09
ShadowJKmojocafe: I hide the userlist for my own sanity's sake01:09
mojocafeOk guys, i have some good news for you! At least those that can remember what i developed "back in those days".01:09
* RST38h has been too polite with ALSA. A couple of good kicks and it is running01:09
mojocafeOk, general, where is the general ?01:09
kaw1AStorm: Yes, I believe so. I just checked01:09
mojocafeNot in... ok. :(01:09
javispedroRST38h, :D01:09
AStormkaw1: hmm, there are a few things that could be broken: 1) your swap file01:09
AStorm2) your card's filesystem01:09
ShadowJKmojocafe: he's sulking and/or raging about at& tfrequencies ;)01:10
javispedroRST38h, be careful with Maemo's ALSA small buffer, < PAGE_SIZE bytes01:10
javispedro(minus overhead)01:10
lardmanmojocafe: I think he also works these days01:10
kaw1Astorm: I haven't tried deleting the swap file and re-creating it. That sounds like a plan.01:10
javispedroI got hit with that while playing with drnoksnes01:10
RST38hjavis: In my GetFreeAudio() call when ALSA returns -1, I had to kick it into gonads instead of returning 001:10
* RST38h will be fine with <PAGE_SIZE buffer01:11
javispedroat 44100 stereo 16-bit samples, it's a bit too short for my liking01:11
mojocafeok ok.... ok :) ..... so here is my news: i updated my MOJOCAFE projekt and guess what: i found a way how you can use it WITHOUT having to register ! You can have full screen widgets on the n8x0 without having to provide ANY information :) .... just like general ask to and now i made it :)01:12
mojocafeyou can check it out at http://www.mojocafe.net01:13
javispedrobehold: the non believers' post!
lardmanburn him!01:13
*** trbs2 has quit IRC01:14
ShadowJKso, uh, what's mojocafe? :)01:14
lardmansorry, was watching the Tudors and got carrried away01:14
RST38hhmm, maemo alsa still does not work01:14
RST38hlinux alsa works01:14
mojocafeShadowJK: it's a project i developed to bring full screen widgets to ALL of my mobile devices01:14
javispedroRST38h, did you try aplay? does aplay work?01:15
javispedroit's a single-file binary.01:15
javispedro(1 kloc-ish)01:15
mojocafeThis was the first version:
javispedro(i mean, a single .c source file binary, around 1000 lines of code)01:16
RST38hjavis: No, don't have aplay. Debugging with printfs01:17
*** zap has quit IRC01:18
mojocafeI am porting the rest of the roundabout 100 old mojos like calendars, digital clocks etc. within the next hours and days into the new system.01:18
mojocafeanyone in here who could test out the new mojocafe version on a n810 ?01:19
*** vivijim has quit IRC01:19
RST38hjavis: I am failing to open ALSA PCM device :(01:20
javispedroRST38h, which one?01:20
javispedroor are you using the default one?01:20
RST38hif(snd_pcm_open(&ALSA,"default",SNDRV_PCM_STREAM_PLAYBACK,0)<0) { die; }01:21
RST38hAm I doing something wrong?01:21
* javispedro is wandering around aplay.c source01:23
*** __t has quit IRC01:23
*** angasule has joined #maemo01:24
mojocafeShadowJK - have you checked it out ?01:24
AStormRST38h: doesn't look like it01:25
AStormoh, wait, that last 001:25
RST38hDevice or resource busy01:25
RST38hThis is what I am getting01:25
RST38hSomebody else is using ALSA01:26
javispedroRST38h, reboot again..01:26
javispedrothat's what happens when it gets stuck01:26
RST38hholy fuck.01:26
AStormsome app is using ALSA right now01:26
AStormcheck if you don't have some ESD running01:26
RST38hbut if it gets stuck like this, does it mean I can't safely use it for applications?01:27
javispedroAStorm: not really, on Maemo ESD does not output to ALSA01:27
AStorm0 is fine (standard mode)01:27
AStormjavispedro: but it still does output to the card, it might interfere01:27
AStormI'd kill it just in case01:27
*** chenca has joined #maemo01:27
javispedroRST38h, this the kind of problem that would be solved if every other coder in the world was perfect :)01:27
javispedroassuming you don't use broken programs, it should work01:27
AStormor if you wrote a pulseaudio driver01:27
*** _berto_ has quit IRC01:28
AStorm(or made pulseaudio ALSA driver work)01:28
RST38hjavis: hmm ok01:28
* RST38h has heard scary stuff about pulseaudio01:28
AStorm(then use alsa-pulse plugin to route all remaining ALSA users to pulseaudio)01:28
javispedroAStorm: ESD outputs to another pcmtask, they are not related at all. lardman may talk about this better than me01:28
RST38hFloating point exception (core dumped)01:28
javispedroRST38h, well, you got it further.01:29
AStormcheck format.01:29
*** L0cutus has quit IRC01:29
RST38hok, it crashed and alsa is stuck again now01:29
javispedroyes, that's the plan :P01:29
AStormshow your code please :)01:29
RST38hI am not using this crap.01:29
RST38hBack to ESD.01:29
javispedroRST38h, i did not want to influence you, but I made that exact decision too.01:30
AStormesp. what hw info you set01:30
javispedroconsidering I was abstracted of the ALSA API by SDL, it only goes to show how much alsa... well.01:30
AStormand whether you have called snd_pcm_prepare01:30
*** chenca has quit IRC01:30
AStormRST38h: you get to call snd_pcm_hw_params properly :>01:31
RST38hAStorm: 4410001:31
RST38hAStorm: 150ms01:31
*** MrGoose has joined #maemo01:31
AStormwhich bit format?01:31
RST38hAStorm: Works on Ubuntu. Works on EA Linux.01:31
RST38h1 channel01:31
AStormshould work01:32
AStormwhat was the "current" setup?01:32
*** pH5 has quit IRC01:32
RST38ha moment01:32
AStormbefore and after setup01:32
RST38hThis is after setup.01:33
AStormlooks ok01:34
AStormdo you have a debugger there to check where the exception occurred?01:34
*** victorpoluceno has joined #maemo01:34
RST38hAStorm: I do, but I have solved the problem by eutanasia.01:35
RST38hAbsolutely no desire to find out just how exactly this particular ALSA implementation is broken01:35
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #maemo01:35
javispedroesd = 39 source files pulseaudio = 20901:37
*** hannesw has quit IRC01:37
RST38hjavis: This is why I intended to go ALSA for Maemo501:37
RST38hjavis: My only hope is that it will be less broken there (seems to be a completely different version, same as in Ubuntu)01:38
javispedroif your target is maemo5, you ma01:38
javispedrowas going to say you may get better luck there :)01:38
RST38hMy current target is Maemo4. I have no Maemo5 hardware and SB is broken.01:38
javispedroThe DSP no longer does sound in n900 (read here), so I guess alsa is back to the usual configuration01:39
RST38hESD does not seem to go lower than 44.1kHz on Maemo4. Weird...01:40
javispedroRST38h, it did for me, but of course it does resampling01:40
javispedroin sw01:40
*** VDVsx has quit IRC01:40
RST38hjavis: What is its native resolution?01:40
javispedroforgot, lemme check01:41
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo01:43
mojocafeanyone with a n810 willing to test out the new ?01:44
*** ShellEvil has quit IRC01:46
javispedrowow, I've been using my partially borked esd version in my N810 since the days I was playing with the audio :s01:46
javispedronow I understand why the battery seemed to go down faster these days :D01:46
javispedroit's 44100 by default01:47
javispedroyou can actually make it output 48000 to the dsp01:47
javispedrobut don't know what the dsp will do to that01:47
lardmanhave a look in the arm-side gstreamer bit of the dsp sink01:51
*** jrocha has quit IRC01:51
lardmanI seem to remember seeing some params01:51
lardmanthough was long ago, so may be my imagination :)01:51
javispedrolardman: I see the esd driver setting those, so I guess the dsp doesn't have anything to say about that ;)01:52
javispedroe.g. pcm_params_data.sample_rate = SAMPLE_RATE_44_1KHZ;01:52
lardmanwell it will accept whatever you give it I guess01:52
javispedro(pcm_params_data.dsp_cmd = DSP_CMD_SET_PARAMS)01:52
javispedrowill it work if it sets 48000?01:52
lardmanis there a define for that value?01:53
lardmanif not, no01:53
lardmanwell then yes probably01:53
javispedrowell, what the *, i'll try it :)01:53
* lardman heads back to the TV, let me know how it goes :)01:53
*** igagis has quit IRC01:56
RST38hjavis: So ESD uses 44.1?01:56
javispedroRST38h, yep01:56
javispedroso, by default, it'll mix everything to 44.101:56
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo01:56
RST38hok, then my rate is ok01:56
RST38hAh, the blivit guy continues on his quest for uncovering maemo security disaster!01:57
* javispedro grabs popcorn01:58
VDVsxmgedmin, ping01:58
mgedminVDVsx: are you sure?01:58
* RST38h goes to sleep. It is 2:58 here01:58
javispedrobah, trying to guess who is doing the resampling by looking at cpu usage is crazy01:58
RST38hjavis: The correct answer is "some bastard"01:59
VDVsxmgedmin, yeah, I got a 403 in the logs page :P01:59
javispedromplayer uses 12% of the cpu using esd backend, but nearly 0% using sdl-esd. esd using the same average the whole time.01:59
javispedronot really, esd's average is a bit higher01:59
mojocafeOk guys. nevermind. thanks for your time. see you later.01:59
javispedroso I guess it's the bastard01:59
RST38hyou have no other alternatives to esd so who cares how much it eats...02:00
javispedroRST38h, actually, I think it's pretty good02:00
*** benh has quit IRC02:00
RST38halsa broken and gst addresses different purposes02:00
javispedrobetter than mplayer for a start, which seems... incredible02:00
RST38hlet us hope pulseaudio does not bring system to complete stop02:01
javispedro(lower quality too if my poor hear is to be trusted)02:01
javispedroit will .)02:01
javispedrowe'll see.02:01
javispedrothe slowness is mitigated by the cool things (e.g. routing phone audio signal to apps, etc)02:02
*** macmaN6789 has quit IRC02:02
mgedminVDVsx: fixed, thanks for the heads up!02:03
* javispedro reinstalls osso-esd from tableeter 02:03
VDVsxmgedmin, thanks, np :)02:03
* mgedmin struggles with PIL02:03
*** rsalveti has quit IRC02:05
*** victorpoluceno has quit IRC02:06
*** frade_home has quit IRC02:06
lcukanyone know what format the video out from the n900 is02:13
*** ShellEvil has joined #maemo02:14
*** MrGoose has quit IRC02:16
timeless_mbplcuk: um, avi? :)02:17
lcuki mean the wired video format02:17
lcuknot the stuff taken from the cam02:17
timeless_mbpin English?02:17
AStormRST38h: pulseaudio should be faster02:18
till-pal and/or ntsc i guess02:18
AStormmplayer's pulse backend is fast (tested here)02:18
AStormunlike esd one02:18
timeless_mbpyou can pick pal or ntsc at runtime02:18
timeless_mbpit's a pref02:19
timeless_mbpsetting, whatever02:19
javispedroAStorm: I don't what's with the mplayer esd backend, but it's mindboggling slow02:19
javispedroAStorm: even sdl-esd backend is 10 times faster02:19
AStormmplayer is using too short blocks02:19
till-presumebly like the n82 and n95s vo02:20
AStormand esd protocol is fairly heavy02:20
javispedrothat, or resampling with a überquality algorithm02:20
AStormunless you're running 48000 Hz audio02:20
javispedroAStorm, it resamples, while the sdl-esd does not.02:20
AStormoh drat.02:20
AStormbuggy mplayer version :>02:20
AStormanyway, esd resampling is horrible and should be banned02:20
AStormLERP was good enough for 8-bit computers02:21
javispedrohorrible, but fast. and my poor hearing cannot notice it :)02:21
AStormgive us cubic on DSP02:21
javispedroAStorm, afaik, DSP no longer for sound in N900.02:21
*** mojocafe has quit IRC02:21
AStormeven better :)02:21
javispedroeven slower :)02:21
AStormunless memory transfers are dog-slow, it still has DSP02:21
AStormwhich could be used for that02:22
AStormanyway, cubic done well is not much more expensive than linear02:22
AStormeven if CPU is to run it02:23
*** PhonoE71 has joined #maemo02:28
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo02:32
*** benh has joined #maemo02:33
*** blkno1 has quit IRC02:34
AStormof course, if the DSP is running it, sinc might be a far better choice - I think there are special instructions for it02:36
*** dieb_ has quit IRC02:37
*** hellwolf-n810 has joined #maemo02:37
*** lbt has quit IRC02:38
*** Federico2 has quit IRC02:39
lardmandsp is not used for sound as the whole device can reach a lower power level if it decodes on ARM02:41
lardmanassuming a use case of the screen off and just decoding audio, which is probably fair02:41
lardmanthat is what I understand to be the reason anyway02:41
lardmanAStorm: nothing to stop you from writing a DSP task to do it mind you02:43
AStormnot that it would be easy, it's still C64x DSP :/02:44
AStormI hoped they'd add C67x instead, more useful02:44
AStorm(it's floating point)02:44
lardmanit has 8bit types, stop moaning ;)02:44
lardmanconvert to fixed point, not too difficult02:45
*** Andy80 has quit IRC02:45
lardmanin fact the DSP has macros to do that, and then to handlle the fixed point calcs, you just need to work out how many points you need and where02:45
AStormbut calculate sinc with fixed point, yes difficult :>02:45
lardmanis it, I don't know02:46
AStormat least, efficiently02:46
lardmansinc filter is this?02:46
AStormcubic would still be easy though02:46
AStormbut that would still probably use less power on the main cpu than dsp02:46
lardmanit's not that the main CPU is more power efficient, just that the main CPU must remain powered up if the DSP is running, but the DSP can be shutdown if not being used02:47
*** PhonoE71 has quit IRC02:48
AStormso what that DSP is good for, anyway? :>02:48
AStormmaybe only offload there when CPU load is high?02:48
lardmanthat is the reason for the decision anyway, so I heard02:48
lardmanvideo decoding02:48
lardmanthat is what it will be used for afaiu02:48
AStormyes, see above :) when the CPU load is high.02:48
lardmanthough it might be worth writing an e.g. tremor decoder for the DSP to offload some CPU load while playing games or the like02:49
lardmanso yep, that too :)02:49
AStormbut that would require some extra comm between the kernel and the resampler/decoder02:49
javispedrothere you have a use case for pulseaudio02:50
AStormsimple cpu load check might be enough, but is not efficient02:50
javispedroautomatically switching output device depending on cpu load02:50
lardmanbut less overhead than decoding the vorbis data and running the game engine on the ARM02:50
AStormbut a constant overhead.02:51
lardmanit wouldn't be easy to do it on cpu load, not idea how a seamless transition could be made, but it could be done on an application level02:51
javispedroAStorm: if you know of a way to easily modify pulse to allow hw mixing let me know :)02:51
javispedroto *use hw mixing02:51
javispedro(more than to just "allow")02:51
AStormhw mixing? as in using DSP? just have a resampler module.02:51
javispedrois that documented somewhere? :P02:52
AStormpulse has a bunch of those already02:52
javispedrobut I want to mix the streams myself, e.g.02:52
AStormthe one calling libspeex is fairly fast02:52
javispedroa "sink" that accepts multiple streams instead of a mixed single one02:52
lardmanan inverse Tee :)02:53
AStormhmmh, it does support that, like multiple outputs on one ALSA single multichannel one02:53
javispedro(well, come to think of it, I could make the resample module output audio and then a "shim" sink module)02:53
* lcuk shudders02:53
AStorm*multiple stereo sinks on one ALSA multichannel output02:54
javispedroAStorm, yeah, but not the really the same02:54
AStormreally similar, you could make 32 channels like that02:54
javispedroit still mixes all apps's streams into one (composed of N channels)02:54
AStormnope, it passes them to ALSA02:54
AStorm(unless resampling is required)02:54
javispedroI was reading the oss sink as sample02:55
javispedroguess I made a wrong decision :)02:55
AStormOSS sink is a bit... simple :)02:55
javispedroif what you say is true my opinion of pulseaudio is going to change radically, for the better :)02:56
AStormI can check it, why not02:56
AStormstill, is there some real hardware mixing in there? I don't think so02:56
javispedroAStorm: yeah, my 1999 laptop has two streams hw mixing02:57
lcukok javis02:57
javispedro(appearing to alsa as two sound cards, but I fixed that with a proper asound.conf)02:57
lcukdo we think this will all work if its just all pushed02:57
AStormhm, let me check again :) I think pulse will use the hw mixing if available02:57
AStorm(until it fills the available mix channels)02:57
AStormif not, we could extend it to do that02:58
javispedrolcuk, liqbase? what are your fears?02:58
javispedroAStorm, doing that is on my agenda, but I feared it required extensive changes02:59
lardmanbed time02:59
lardmannight all02:59
javispedrolardman, gnite! :)02:59
*** lardman has quit IRC02:59
javispedroAStorm, can't see any of that goodness :( it opens a single stream on unsuspend()03:01
javispedrothen again, this is debian lenny version (aka OLD)03:01
AStormchecking 0.9.15 here03:02
AStormyes, it does... I'll better ask devs03:03
javispedroAStorm, ta!03:03
*** jnettlet has joined #maemo03:06
* javispedro finally found PA svn.03:07
*** radic has quit IRC03:07
AStormit seems that hardware mixing would be a non-trivial change03:07
AStormbut not impossible03:07
javispedroas I thought... it would require breaking api compatibility with all sinks. fun stuff.03:09
Macerdamnit. have to go somewhere and don't have enough time to encode the last 2 episodes of eureka03:12
Macermaybe 103:12
*** rkabir has joined #maemo03:12
*** EdLin has left #maemo03:15
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo03:16
*** florian has quit IRC03:19
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC03:21
AStormjavispedro: no, bad and bad... and worse03:23
AStormresamplers are one big .c file03:23
AStormthey'd need modularization03:23
javispedroAStorm: do you know if the make logs in #pa ?03:24
AStormand hardware mixing is supposedly dead and buried03:24
AStormI'll check03:24
javispedroi'm in the channel :P got pointers from google to a discussion that "happened there" but can't find logs03:25
AStormno logs apparently03:26
javispedrowell :)03:26
AStormat least, no public ones03:26
javispedrodon't worry, and thanks03:26
*** radic has joined #maemo03:32
*** pacopil has joined #maemo03:42
Proteoustrying to use OVI maps turn by turn in San Fancisco == teh lose03:46
Proteouswell, it's great if you want to explore random places and get on and off the freeway a lot03:46
Proteousbut the directions tend to lag about 30 seconds behind where you actualy are so it sorta sucks03:47
*** kaw2 has joined #maemo03:50
*** user_ has joined #maemo03:50
ShellEvilIs it losing GPS position - or is it just failing at routing?03:50
*** tbf has quit IRC03:50
*** ShellEvil is now known as SpeedEvil03:50
Proteousthe routes were funky, but really it was the lag that made it mostly useless03:51
SpeedEvilI assume lots of tall buildings?03:51
Proteousactualy, the positioning did pretty good03:51
user_I am left-handed, and want to relocate the browser scrollbar to the left03:51
Proteousa few times it thought I took a turn I didn't and recalculated the route03:52
ProteousI ended up just going back to the overhead map and just planning my own route03:52
user_editing about:config does not work on my n81003:52
user_what can I do03:53
*** jnettlet has quit IRC03:53
javispedroi think there's a theme or gtk patch for left scrollbars?03:53
*** user_ has quit IRC03:54
*** dreamer_ has joined #maemo03:54
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo03:56
*** Dantonic is now known as dantonic03:56
*** user_ has joined #maemo03:57
*** leandroal has joined #maemo03:58
*** kaw3 has joined #maemo03:59
*** dantonic is now known as Davide^gym04:02
*** Davide^gym is now known as Davide04:02
*** usir has quit IRC04:04
AStormProteous: sounds like an app bug then04:04
AStormit forgot to take account of your current position when redoing notifications04:05
javispedroAStorm: interesting conversation, truly. I recorded every word :)04:05
AStorm(and speed)04:05
javispedro(in #pa)04:05
*** jgoss has quit IRC04:05
*** kaw1 has quit IRC04:07
*** z4chh has quit IRC04:08
ProteousI think part of it is probably the slow CPU on my n9704:08
*** kaw1 has joined #maemo04:08
*** z4chh has joined #maemo04:09
AStormProteous: unlikely, more like missing caching04:09
AStorm(of the directions)04:10
*** z4chh has quit IRC04:10
*** kaw2 has quit IRC04:17
*** kaw2 has joined #maemo04:17
*** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC04:17
*** _BuBU has quit IRC04:19
*** Luke-Jr2 has joined #maemo04:19
*** _BuBU has joined #Maemo04:20
*** dieb_ has joined #maemo04:23
*** Luke-Jr2 has quit IRC04:23
*** Luke-Jr2 has joined #maemo04:24
*** eichi__ has quit IRC04:24
*** kaw3 has quit IRC04:27
*** kaw3 has joined #maemo04:28
*** kaw1 has quit IRC04:37
*** z4chh has joined #maemo04:37
*** kaw1 has joined #maemo04:38
*** fernand0 has joined #maemo04:39
*** leandroal has quit IRC04:41
*** dragorn has joined #maemo04:43
*** LinuxCode has joined #maemo04:43
*** leandroal has joined #maemo04:45
*** kaw2 has quit IRC04:48
*** jnettlet has joined #maemo04:49
*** kaw2 has joined #maemo04:49
*** Tu13es has joined #maemo04:50
Tu13esare there any better ways to connect to my ssh/screen/irssi session than xterminal?04:50
Tu13esfrom my n800, that is04:50
*** leandroal has quit IRC04:50
*** javispedro has left #maemo04:50
*** leandroal has joined #maemo04:51
*** kaw4 has joined #maemo04:56
angasulehmm, does anyone have a link to a video recorded by an n8x0? one that hasn't been reencoded to youtube or anything04:56
*** kaw3 has quit IRC04:57
zerojayPCangasule: well... it looks like complete crap, so... heh..04:58
*** leandroal has quit IRC04:59
angasulereally? :?04:59
msh_I suppose it works OK as a light level sensor ;)05:00
zerojayPCIt's a shitty vga camera so... yeah.05:00
zerojayPCNot really meant for filming videos.05:01
angasuleI thought it was more like the N90005:01
*** kaw3 has joined #maemo05:04
SpeedEvilshitty vga cams are under $1 per05:04
SpeedEvilwhich is prolly why05:04
comhackI have a weird issue. I setup the mail program that comes with th n810 for gmail but it only retrieves messages up until two months ago. Nothing current? Any ideals?05:06
comhackI get juna and july but not agust or setember05:07
SpeedEvilNobody likes you anymore?05:08
SpeedEvilreminds me of the comedy openoffice won't print on tuesdays bug05:08
*** VDVsx has quit IRC05:09
comhackYeah I figured it was a conspiracy05:10
SpeedEvilDo you have lots of messages sitting on the server?05:10
* SpeedEvil is stabbing in the dark here.05:10
*** kaw1 has quit IRC05:10
zerojayPCangasule: The front camera is meant for video chat.05:10
zerojayPCangasule: Just like the N900.05:10
zerojayPCangasule: So they are relatively shitty.05:10
zerojayPCcomhack: You probably have it set to only download your most recent 200 messages or something like that.05:11
angasuledoes the N900 have two cameras?05:11
SpeedEvilangasule: yes05:11
zerojayPCangasule: One front, one back.05:11
SpeedEvilangasule: one quite nice one05:11
comhackzerojayPC: wouldnt that be the newest 20005:11
SpeedEvilHave there been released pictures of the 5mp one?05:11
comhacknot two mnths ago05:11
msh_SpeedEvil: there are a few on flickr05:12
angasuleaah, ok, I'm interested in the nice one :) but good to know there is one for chatting05:12
zerojayPCcomhack: Don't know. I don't know your inbox. :)05:12
*** Luke-Jr2 has quit IRC05:12
zerojayPCcomhack: Check your account settings. There's an option there to specify which to download. Also, the Gmail site also controls how many messages you receive.05:12
comhackyeah I know that05:13
comhackall setting perfect05:13
comhackthats the weird part05:13
comhackusing pop   gonna try imap05:13
zerojayPCThere are pics out there from the N900's 5MP camera, but I wouldn't use them to judge image quality right now. It's still a prototype and things can change between now and final.05:13
SpeedEvilI doubt that the hardware quaility is changing.05:14
SpeedEvilNoise reduction tweaks - maybe05:14
zerojayPCIt's not a matter of the hardware changing but the image compression and so on.05:14
zerojayPCSo quality can vary wildly from now until release.05:15
*** kaw2 has quit IRC05:15
*** kaw3 has quit IRC05:19
*** angasule has quit IRC05:19
*** mgedmin has quit IRC05:20
*** Luke-Jr2 has joined #maemo05:24
*** kaw4 has quit IRC05:26
*** chenca has joined #maemo05:28
*** chenca has quit IRC05:28
*** jmc93739653 has joined #maemo05:28
*** jmc93739653 has left #maemo05:29
*** jmc93739653 has joined #maemo05:30
*** LinuxCode has quit IRC05:41
*** Luke-Jr2 has quit IRC05:46
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:46
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:47
*** rkabir has quit IRC05:48
esaym153linux is a good program05:51
*** Sryche has joined #maemo05:54
Srychehi, how can I reinstall the Maemo on my N800?05:55
zerojayPCYou'll want to reflash the OS.05:55
*** rkabir_ has joined #maemo05:57
SrychezerojayPC: thanks!05:57
Srychewell, i'm having some problems to remove the battery :|05:58
Srycheany tips?05:58
Srycheis there some kind of lock?06:00
*** MrGoose has joined #maemo06:04
esaym153Sryche: have you gotten the back cover off06:13
esaym153the battery should just slip out06:14
esaym153get a knife of something06:14
zerojayPCThere's a latch.06:14
zerojayPCYou need to have the stand open to get to it.06:15
zerojayPCThen you can just move the latch over and the back cover comes off.06:15
zerojayPCBattery should come out extremely easily.06:15
*** renato has quit IRC06:15
*** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo06:16
MaceN8x0had to go out and do dumb shit again06:17
MaceN8x0i hate people06:17
MaceN8x0a person in general is ok, but people in general are idiots06:18
*** blassey has quit IRC06:18
*** jhford is now known as zz_jhford06:26
*** blassey has joined #maemo06:32
*** Komzpa has joined #maemo06:37
*** kozak has quit IRC06:42
*** kozak1 has quit IRC06:42
*** kozak has joined #maemo06:45
*** mavhk has joined #maemo06:47
*** mavhc has quit IRC06:47
*** mavhk is now known as mavhc06:49
*** ejdav_gon has joined #maemo06:55
*** monkeyiqchin is now known as monkeyiq07:04
*** jdav_gone has quit IRC07:10
*** ejdav_gon is now known as jdav_gone07:10
*** Moku has joined #maemo07:10
*** Firebird has quit IRC07:17
*** bergie has joined #maemo07:18
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC07:20
*** Komzpa has quit IRC07:20
*** Shinto has quit IRC07:25
*** ShellEvil has joined #maemo07:32
*** ShellEvil is now known as SpeedEvil07:34
*** jmc93739653 has quit IRC07:38
*** trofi has quit IRC07:40
*** kozak has quit IRC07:43
*** zap has joined #maemo07:49
*** macmaN6789 has joined #maemo07:56
*** caotic has quit IRC07:56
*** Sryche is now known as SrycheAuei08:02
*** disqk has joined #maemo08:12
*** disq has quit IRC08:12
*** SpComb has quit IRC08:15
*** SpComb has joined #maemo08:15
*** ab_ has joined #maemo08:16
*** pillar has quit IRC08:17
*** pillar has joined #maemo08:17
RST38hheya sts08:22
*** ab[out] has quit IRC08:29
*** slonopotamus_ has joined #maemo08:31
Stskeepsmorning slonopotamus_08:34
*** vigneswari has joined #maemo08:34
slonopotamus_Stskeeps, moo08:34
Stskeepshow's the various projects with gentoo ging?08:34
slonopotamus_Stskeeps, not bad :) hacking on emerge performance mostly, libcal is only missing erasing stuff08:37
MaceN8x0damn i love eureka08:37
MaceN8x0they had a "flashback" show kinda this last episode and  it made me want to watch it all again08:39
Sho_slonopotamus_: you work on portage?08:45
Sho_MaceN8x0: I've been meaning to give Eureka a second chance ... the pilot didn't grip me back then08:45
*** Luke-Jr2 has joined #maemo08:45
*** promulo has joined #maemo08:46
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC08:46
MaceN8x0Sho_, you have to get 3 episodes into a show to truly judge08:47
MaceN8x0if it doesn't catch you by the 3rd or 4th , then it sucks08:47
MaceN8x0character relationship and development takes a while08:47
GeneralAntillesSho_, worth a second look.08:48
GeneralAntillesLittle hoaky, little campy, but fun08:48
MaceN8x0eureka is great tho heh08:48
*** herzi has joined #maemo08:48
MaceN8x0it has a good balance to it08:48
slonopotamus_Sho_, contributing performance-wise patches08:48
Sho_MaceN8x0: it was a busy a season with many new shows contending for attention heh :)08:48
Stskeepsmorning johnx08:49
MaceN8x0Sho_, yeh, tell that to Firefly08:49
Sho_that one i actually did watch08:49
MaceN8x0Castle is better than i thought it would be08:49
MaceN8x0more of a comedy than anything else08:50
Sho_castle is still on my todo08:50
*** jnettlet has quit IRC08:50
Sho_right now I only have time for defying gravity08:50
MaceN8x0defying gravity?08:50
Sho_a space-based show on ABC08:51
MaceN8x0docmentary type?08:51
MaceN8x0or science fiction type?08:51
Sho_no, though it tries to be realistic08:51
Sho_it's not really a must see, but as a space nut you have to take what you can get08:52
MaceN8x0so more like a drama?08:52
Sho_it's set around 2050, with 8 astronauts on a mission to tour the solar system08:52
MaceN8x0more science fiction then08:52
MaceN8x0hm, i'll check it out08:53
Sho_and an overarching mystery plot about an apparently sentient mystery device they have on board that seems to have been dug up during a mars mission 10 years prior08:53
SpeedEvilSho_: does the mystery device have a military mode?08:53
MaceN8x0reminds me of 2001 and 201008:53
MaceN8x0nice to see back then they thought we would be on manned missions to Jupiter08:53
Sho_at to that a dose of relationship/romance plots. sort of grey's anatomy in space.08:53
MaceN8x02010 is next year08:54
Sho_nice sfx though, done by the same studio that does them for heroes.08:54
MaceN8x0what happened?08:54
SpeedEvilMaceN8x0: well - a lot of programs got cancelled.08:54
Sho_SpeedEvil: no military dude so far08:54
Sho_-dude +mode08:54
SpeedEvilMaceN8x0: for example - there was - just after apollo - a orion test vehicle.08:54
MaceN8x0Sho_, space sound effects?08:55
MaceN8x0like loud rocket engines in space vaccum?08:55
Sho_MaceN8x0: hm, good question ... no "swoooowsh" on flybys i think08:55
MaceN8x0firefly was silent08:55
SpeedEvilMaceN8x0: you take nuclear bombs, and light them off under a curved plate. Plate moves sharply away from the bomb, shock absorber absorbs the blast, spacecraft is going 10-20m/s faster08:55
Sho_and shakeycam, yeah08:55
MaceN8x0which was awesome08:55
SpeedEvilMaceN8x0: but got cancelled.08:55
MaceN8x0SpeedEvil, uhm. ok? where did that come from?08:56
*** hannesw has joined #maemo08:56
SpeedEvilMaceN8x0: I was attempting to answer why we hadn't done 2010 in reality.08:56
* SpeedEvil needs sleep.08:56
MaceN8x0normal fuel won't get there?08:57
Myrttitoday is a *WONDERFUL* day!08:57
SpeedEvilMaceN8x0: it's an exponential thing08:57
Stskeepsmorning myrtti08:57
MaceN8x0i always thought it was the lack of the communist war machine and the ending of the cold war08:58
*** GAN800 has joined #maemo08:58
MaceN8x0geopolitical competition drove space travel for decades08:58
SpeedEvilMaceN8x0: A fuel that's twice as good doesn't get you going twice as fast - it's more like well over 4 times.08:58
MaceN8x0unless the shuttle carrying the plutonium blows up and scatters it all over the world08:59
SpeedEvilMaceN8x0: that - and the ICBM derived launchers are horribly expensive by design. The fuel for the shuttle costs ~300k - for the liquid - yet a shuttle launch - a large slice of a billion.08:59
SpeedEvil_much_ effort is put into weight reduction - when actually spending 3m on liquid fuel isn't an issue.09:00
SpeedEvilAnyway - I should not be on IRC at 7AM09:00
MaceN8x0well, find a way to reverse gravity wells ;)09:00
SpeedEvilFairy dust, and sunbeams trapped in cucumbers.09:00
MaceN8x0use space as a spring09:01
MaceN8x0touche too09:01
*** alexga has joined #maemo09:02
*** caotic has joined #maemo09:04
*** Dar_AFK is now known as Dar09:06
MyrttiI think I might need to reflash my N80009:06
*** avs has joined #maemo09:06
*** _marcell_ has joined #maemo09:08
*** bergie has quit IRC09:15
*** caotic has quit IRC09:17
JaffaMorning, all09:22
*** aSIMULAtor has joined #maemo09:23
*** benson has joined #maemo09:25
*** fab has joined #maemo09:26
*** __t has joined #maemo09:32
*** geaaru has joined #maemo09:33
*** slonopotamus_ is now known as slonopotamus09:35
*** stemosco has joined #maemo09:36
*** trickie has joined #maemo09:36
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #Maemo09:37
*** frade has quit IRC09:39
*** Macer has quit IRC09:39
*** esaym153 has quit IRC09:39
*** Macer has joined #maemo09:40
*** eggonlea1 has quit IRC09:40
*** frade has joined #maemo09:40
*** eggonlea has joined #maemo09:40
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo09:40
*** msh_ has quit IRC09:40
*** MaceRep has quit IRC09:40
*** msh_ has joined #maemo09:41
*** zz_jhford is now known as jhford09:41
*** andre__ has quit IRC09:43
*** esaym153 has joined #maemo09:45
*** bergie has joined #maemo09:46
*** MaceRep has joined #maemo09:47
*** EdLin has joined #maemo09:54
*** booiiing has joined #maemo09:58
*** __t has quit IRC09:58
*** guardian has quit IRC09:59
*** jgoss has joined #maemo10:03
mavhcif being mrong is wrong then I don't want to be mrite10:04
*** glass has joined #maemo10:06
*** carboncopy has joined #maemo10:07
carboncopyHi everybody, am back, with another "issue"10:07
*** fab has quit IRC10:08
carboncopyam looking for a bluetooth 3G(HSDPA) modem to be used with N8*010:08
*** bergie_ has joined #maemo10:10
johnxwhich provider are you with?10:11
RST38hmoo all10:11
RST38hehlo johnx10:11
johnxand a fine morning to you RST38h10:11
*** bergie has quit IRC10:12
carboncopyi don't want a phone, as I already have a phone, and the data package will be separate from the phone10:12
*** jhford is now known as zz_jhford10:13
*** bergie_ is now known as bergie10:13
johnxcarboncopy, any reason not to just tether to a phone?10:14
Stskeepsyeah, a cheap 3g one10:14
*** vigneswari has quit IRC10:17
*** vigneswari has joined #maemo10:17
RST38hcarboncopy: you do understand how awkward your n8*0 will look with that modem stuck in?10:19
RST38hdo 3G modems come with bt?10:20
RST38hI thought they were stricly USB devices?10:20
johnxclosest thing I can think of is a 3G->WiFi portable access point10:20
till-is bt fast enough for 3g?10:22
till-afaik bt has ~ 1mbit, 3g up to 10mbit10:22
johnxMyrtti, yup, exactly what I was thinking10:22
RST38hKinda pointless here, no 3G10:22
* RST38h sheds a tear 10:22
till-3g data is to expensive10:23
Myrtticheaper than soap ;-10:23
till-my opinion :)10:23
till-and i've got wifi coverage on my campus, my home and my friends10:23
RST38hSince when price became an opinion?10:23
till-if you decide wheter you will use 3g or not10:24
till-i would say10:24
johnxRST38h, too expensive for the value (cost/benefit analysis) is a personal choice10:25
*** eocanha has joined #maemo10:25
RST38hjohnx: yea, but it is separate10:25
RST38hprice is just a number, published and thus known, can't call it "opinion" =)10:26
johnxRST38h, expensive is a value judgment10:26
till-i didn't say a price, just its to expensive right now :)10:27
*** Vulcanis has quit IRC10:30
*** sergio has joined #maemo10:37
*** slonopotamus_ has joined #maemo10:38
*** The_Tall1 has joined #maemo10:39
*** calvaris has joined #maemo10:40
*** fab has joined #maemo10:43
*** SrycheAuei has quit IRC10:44
*** fnordianslip has joined #maemo10:44
tigertthe moment you have flatrate 3g10:50
tigertis the moment you dont care much about wifi10:50
tigertbecause you can keep your ssh and such running all the time10:50
suihkulokkiwell, in some 3rd world countries and USA the 3g coverage is spotty, especially indoors10:52
* RST38h can keep his ssh running all the time over egprs10:53
RST38hssh isn't really a problem, web is10:53
* till- don't need ssh running all the time10:54
*** sergio has quit IRC10:55
*** sergio has joined #maemo10:55
* Proteous keeps ssh running all the time over edge10:58
tigertsuihkulokki: yeah11:01
* tigert does ssh + screen all the time11:02
tigertits the only sensible way to run irc in my opinion :)11:02
tigertRST38h: why is web the problem?11:02
RST38htigert: too much data to transfer over egprs11:02
RST38htakes time11:02
tigerthdspa or whatever it is,11:03
tigertits getting fast enough that I dont care about how fast it is11:03
tigertits fast enough11:03
RST38hno hsdpa, no umts here11:03
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC11:04
timeless_mbphow do i try to vote for something?11:04
RST38hMilitary is saying 2.1GHz band interferes with their missile defense systems11:04
timeless_mbpi want to promote that11:04
*** lbt has joined #maemo11:04
*** __t has joined #maemo11:05
*** bigbrovar has joined #maemo11:06
*** jrocha has joined #maemo11:06
* timeless_mbp pokes stemosco 11:07
* timeless_mbp pokes Stskeeps 11:07
*** MrGoose has quit IRC11:07
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo11:07
* timeless_mbp randomly pokes people11:07
timeless_mbptigert: remind me to whack someone who worked on clock :(11:07
tigerttimeless_mbp: found another crazy cornercase? :)11:08
timeless_mbptigert: absolutely improper use of strings11:09
timeless_mbpopen clock11:09
timeless_mbplook at the "world clock" labels11:09
timeless_mbpnote the one that lists "GMT" ...11:09
*** bergie_ has joined #maemo11:09
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo11:09
timeless_mbpnow tap it11:09
timeless_mbpnote a different description for the first item under <add>11:10
timeless_mbpif you don't have any additional items, add one11:10
timeless_mbpthen tap that item11:10
timeless_mbpnow look for the line where it references your time zone11:10
tigertI never use the clock anyway11:10
timeless_mbpyou've met two strings, one that uses GMT and one that doesn't11:10
tigertfile a bug :)11:10
timeless_mbpyeah yeah11:10
timeless_mbpi'm sick11:10
tigertit doesnt seem to stop you from ircing :)11:11
timeless_mbpi actually unlocked my bugzilla account before i left work yesterday just  so i could file this bug11:11
Stskeepsbeing sick and ircing is compatible :P11:11
* timeless_mbp sips tea11:11
*** vladovg has joined #maemo11:11
vladovgand good morning11:11
lbtmorning all (and vladovg)11:13
*** benson has quit IRC11:13
timeless_mbpmadbomber has a product11:13
carboncopysorry, was out of office11:14
carboncopyam looking through the discussion now11:14
*** benh has quit IRC11:15
*** slonopotamus_ is now known as slonopotamus11:20
*** dneary has joined #maemo11:21
timeless_mbpmadbomber is unhappy11:24
timeless_mbpbut it doesn't know it11:24
timeless_mbpand i can't get apt/dpkg/ham to tell me11:24
*** gunni_ has joined #maemo11:26
*** Davide has quit IRC11:29
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo11:29
*** florian_kc is now known as florian11:29
timeless_mbplcuk: "Send Failed, please try again." [Close]11:33
timeless_mbponedotzero ...11:33
*** femorandeira has joined #maemo11:33
*** bilboed-pi has joined #maemo11:33
lcukahhh timeless you require a big projector on the side of the BFP Southbank11:34
lcuksorry, its a dependency#11:34
timeless_mbpwhich reminds me11:34
*** mardi__ has quit IRC11:34
*** dottedmag has joined #maemo11:34
timeless_mbpi need to figure out if the dvr i have has composite out or composite in11:34
timeless_mbpmy lcd doesn't have composite in :(11:34
florianhi all11:35
*** bergie has quit IRC11:35
*** bergie_ is now known as bergie11:35
* timeless_mbp wonders who owns findmine11:36
lcuktimeless, "testmsg"11:37
lcukgets you through without the checks11:37
*** glass_ has joined #maemo11:38
RST38hWhy would agps-ui install a daemon listening on port 7275?11:38
*** gunni has quit IRC11:38
timeless_mbpmore fun11:39
*** hellwolf-n810 has quit IRC11:39
RST38hinternet says it is "OMA UserPlane Location"11:39
*** AltC has joined #maemo11:39
Corsacwoot, n900 is now 619e on expansys.fr11:40
RST38hIs it going up or down?11:40
Jaffalcuk: Gah, produce presentation material for onedotzero today - after I found out I'm being roped in yesterday.11:42
Corsacit made 750 → 650 -> 62011:42
JaffaNot fun.11:42
lcukjaffa lol11:42
*** hannesw has quit IRC11:42
Corsacbut anyways it was cheaper in it and de afair11:42
lcukits ok, at least you can get to london11:42
Corsaclike 600 since the beginning11:42
lcukrepeated questions have so far been fruitless11:42
*** hannesw has joined #maemo11:42
lcukand im meant to be there11:42
timeless_mbpthat's pretty bad11:43
*** vladovg has quit IRC11:43
* lcuk nods11:43
timeless_mbplcuk: can't you take a train?11:43
lcukno job, no money11:43
Jaffalcuk: Get on the Virgin train from Manchester Piccadilly; travel first class and charge 'em back.11:43
JaffaShould only be about 150ukp11:43
timeless_mbplcuk: how much is the train?11:43
timeless_mbpsomeone didn't like GBP and had to be politically correct?11:44
lcuki dunno but i have been told by the one with purse strings i am on extremely limited budget11:44
*** beavis has joined #maemo11:44
JaffaGBP is wrong (although right)11:44
Jaffalcuk: doh11:44
JaffaCos Great Britain is a geological island; UK is a political country11:45
timeless_mbpand it's used in Belfast?11:45
timeless_mbpplease keep in mind that the n900 doesn't think Belfast is in UK11:45
timeless_mbpwe're geographically challenged here11:45
*** bigbrovar has left #maemo11:46
*** bergie has quit IRC11:47
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Belfast is in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Belfast's currency is GBP.11:49
*** plastun has joined #maemo11:49
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Dublin is in the Republic of Ireland and uses EUR11:49
timeless_mbpJaffa: as i said, we're geographically challenged here11:49
timeless_mbpwe don't think Belfast is in UK :)11:49
timeless_mbpfind an n900 and see for yourself :)11:49
timeless_mbpwe also decided to highlight a place called Guam in Missouri and say it was in time zone +1011:50
timeless_mbpwhich is typical of pacific island nations :)11:50
timeless_mbpyou like having islands in the continental us, right?11:50
carboncopylooks like this is what am looking for :)
carboncopynow, to convince my employer I need it for my work :D11:51
Corsactimeless_mbp: are those easter eggs? :)11:52
timeless_mbpCorsac: depends on when you like finding your easter eggs11:52
timeless_mbpi think there's something about rotten easter eggs that you find months later11:52
Corsacthey usually don't smell that good11:52
plastunWhen the Maemo summit 2009 results will be published?11:52
*** krutt has quit IRC11:54
timeless_mbpplastun: eh?11:54
timeless_mbpCorsac: so i've heard11:54
timeless_mbpthankfully we don't deal w/ easter eggs11:54
timeless_mbpinstead, i'm supposed to clean my apt of crumbs in time for the event that was responsible for that schism11:55
infobottimeless_mbp meant: instead, i'm supposed to cleanse my apt of crumbs in time for the event that was responsible for that schism11:55
timeless_mbpJaffa: how do you like them eggs?11:55
plastunI mean sponsorship results11:55
*** tbf has joined #maemo11:55
timeless_mbpin case people are curious, there really is a Guam, MO11:55
timeless_mbpit's an unincorporated town in a county whose population is <30k11:56
Corsacbut still not in pacific11:56
timeless_mbpwe called the US census bureau to check :)11:56
timeless_mbpCorsac: yeah, i'm pretty sure the time zone there isn't +1011:56
Corsachow many potential n900 users is there in Guam, MO?11:58
*** lardman has joined #maemo12:00
*** plastun has quit IRC12:00
lardmananyone know about Python bindings for C code?12:00
timeless_mbpCorsac: based on population, i'd say 012:00
*** wazd_n800 has joined #maemo12:00
timeless_mbphowever i could imagine someone who owns or looks at an n900 searching for guam12:01
jrochalardman, you mean Hildon bindings for Python?12:01
timeless_mbpand being confused when they find it in the continental us12:01
wazd_n800'lo all)12:01
lardmanI've got a buffer, which I'm told is a string, and want to pass it to my C code. I guess the PyArg_ParseTuple format should be either s or S, but does s assume my buffer will contain no null chars?12:01
RST38hheya wazd12:02
lardmanjrocha: no, I want to wrap some C code to call it from Python12:02
jrochalardman, don't know much about that, the opposite is more usual I guess, nonetheless, check this out:
lardmanor should I just use e.g. SWIG and not try to work out how to do it by hand?12:04
lardmanThanks for that, I think I'd be better implementing a Python function that wraps the C though as the C is pretty big12:04
*** zap_ has joined #maemo12:06
lardmanmm, SWIG looks easy enough12:06
RST38hlardman, what are you doing in python anyway?12:07
lardmanbarcode decoder UI12:07
lardmanbut the guts are written in C12:07
RST38hfinally, a good use for the camera12:08
lardmanyeah :)12:08
lardmanactually works too, which is nice12:08
thplardman: depending on how much data need to be passed between frontend/backend, separate processes and pipes might be an option12:08
lardmanthough the 1D decoder spits out too much rubbish, QR and Datamatrix work though12:08
lardmanthp: it shouldn't be too much, just single image frames of ~320 x 24012:09
*** sergio has quit IRC12:09
RST38hwhoever got moderation rights at tmp, the spammer guy is at it again12:09
lardmanI don't want ipc overhead either really12:09
lardmanRST38h: TMO? linky?12:10
RST38hbut he is carpet bombing, so there is more12:10
lardmanhe's gine12:10
thplardman: is a good starting point12:11
lardmanthp: my confusion is really that the camera output on the Python side is said to reside in a string, which is fine, but the import function looks for a null terminated string12:11
lardmanbut perhaps that's only on the way back into Python, rather than the way in?12:11
lardmani.e. my buffer of camera data may contain null chars when being passed from Python to C12:12
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo12:12
thpshould be no problem, as long as you know the size of the buffer12:13
lardmanalso, what's the difference between a char array string and a string object?12:13
*** wazd_n800 has quit IRC12:13
*** jsears has joined #maemo12:14
lardmanas in how can I tell which one has been created in Python?12:14
jrochalardman, why can't you build the UI in C?12:15
lardmanI can, but Python GTK is much nicer than C12:16
timeless_mbpjrocha: no one in their right mind builds a ui in c12:16
thplardman: maybe this is the function you are searching for?12:16
lardmanthanks thp12:16
jrochatimeless_mbp, what???12:16
jrochaI've written UIs in C and in Python12:17
lardmanI should also add that sqlite is much nicer in Python than C too12:17
timeless_mbpjrocha: and in the former cases, you weren't in your right mind12:17
thpand PyString_Check can be used on a PyObject* to check if its a python string12:17
timeless_mbpthat doesn't imply you were in your right mind for the latter case12:17
jrochaof course I prefer Python but C seems to be a better choice in this case since you already have something that looks extensive, written in C12:17
lardmanjrocha: it's a good point though12:17
lardmanjrocha: I switched to Python because the C code was buggy (my own fault), and have been able to track down my bugs now, so I could pretty easily switch back to C and correct the bugs12:18
lardmanjrocha: well the ui and decoders are separate12:18
jrochatimeless_mbp, I've actually started with Python and I like both and don't think that one is out of his mind just because of using one language12:18
lardmanthough my UI code was written in C and I ported it to Python12:19
timeless_mbpjrocha: *shrug*12:19
timeless_mbpyou're welcome to share sample ui code12:19
timeless_mbphowever, i have a good record of tearing C code to shreds12:19
timeless_mbpso you're warned not to :)12:19
timeless_mbphubris is the better part of valor (?)12:19
jrochatimeless_mbp, I've ported the EOG to Maemo, you can check it12:19
timeless_mbpis it in extras?12:20
lardmanonce I get the 1D decoder working decently I'll probably need some help with infernal treeviews :)12:20
jrochanot yet12:20
timeless_mbphow do i install it then?12:20
jrochabut you can get it at: git.igalia.com12:20
jrochatimeless_mbp, criticizing code is easy, writing code is a bit harder12:21
timeless_mbpi write code too12:21
timeless_mbpi just try to avoid doing it :)12:21
jrochaI'm gonna make a deb and try to have it on extras too12:21
_berto_criticizing is always easier than doing things :p12:21
jrochatimeless_mbp, then I'm sorry for you :)12:21
timeless_mbpjrocha: why?12:21
timeless_mbpa wise coder writes as few lines of code as possible12:22
timeless_mbpthe fewer lines, the fewer bugs :)12:22
jrochatimeless_mbp, you said you avoid doing code..12:22
jrochatimeless_mbp, that (about # lines of code) is wrong12:22
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo12:22
timeless_mbpnot that much, i just pick my battles12:22
lcuktimeless_mbp, i mustnt be in my right mind either12:23
lcukliqbase is written in c12:23
timeless_mbpanyway, if you only ported eog, what would i read?12:23
timeless_mbplcuk: liqbase is different12:23
timeless_mbpyou built your own toolkit12:23
timeless_mbpthat by definition means you're out of your mind :)12:23
lcukits a full gui with objects and events and hooks and stuff12:23
jrochatimeless_mbp, you'd read all the fremantle code12:23
jrochaanyway guys, gotta go back to writing code12:24
timeless_mbpjrocha: i've probably skimmed through more maemo internal code than most people @nokia12:24
jrochatimeless_mbp, good for you :)12:24
timeless_mbpbad for my sanity12:24
timeless_mbpdefinitely bad12:24
lcukyou dont just skim it though - you find the pathways to fail exceedingly well!12:24
timeless_mbplcuk: yeah well... that too12:25
timeless_mbpwhich reminds me, someday you should point me to your sources12:25
timeless_mbplemme know when you want a review :)12:25
*** sergio has joined #maemo12:25
lcukbut only if you are willing to hop in and help12:26
timeless_mbp  21 #. Translaters: This string is for a toggle to display a toolbar.12:26
timeless_mbp  22 #. * The name of the toolbar is automatically computed from the widgets12:26
timeless_mbp  23 #. * on the toolbar, and is placed at the %s. Note the _ before the %s12:26
timeless_mbp  24 #. * which is used to add mnemonics. We know that this is likely to12:26
timeless_mbp  25 #. * produce duplicates, but don't worry about it. If your language12:26
timeless_mbp  26 #. * normally has a mnemonic at the start, please use the _. If not,12:26
timeless_mbp  27 #. * please remove.12:26
* timeless_mbp coughs12:26
*** murrayc has joined #maemo12:26
* Myrtti smacks timeless_mbp 12:26
lcukhi Myrtti how you feelin today?12:26
timeless_mbp"hi, we don't care about how localization should work, so we did something incredibly stupid but tried to justify it"12:26
Myrttilcuk: better every day :-)12:26
lcuk:) good12:27
lcukyou coming to the summit?12:27
timeless_mbplcuk: what kind of indentation algorithm are you using?12:27
timeless_mbprenders really strangely12:27
Myrttinah, I'll be attending a wedding in Littlehampton then12:27
lcuktimeless, yeah not a very tidy one, my editor eats things at different times12:28
*** benh has joined #maemo12:28
lcukand for a while had its own thought about how many spaces made a tab12:28
timeless_mbpmight i suggest you find something to reformat your code?12:28
lcuksack the wedding off and come anywya12:28
*** bergie has joined #maemo12:29
Myrttilcuk: and miss an opportunity to "Meet the Extended Family"? nah... ;-)12:29
lcuktimeless, you could suggest many things whether i get round to them is another matter12:29
lcuki might infact have to drop the whole thing very soon12:29
timeless_mbpwhy the extra parens? :)12:29
lcukit needed a hug12:30
jrochalcuk, LOL!12:30
lcuknormally when things like that happen its been sat at ((charwidth-1)>3)12:30
lcukand ive removed the -112:31
timeless_mbpin this case i ithink it was -=412:31
jrochathat had happened to me12:31
lcuki havent modified that file since i wrote it tho i dont think12:31
timeless_mbpimgdata = &imgdata[-x];12:31
*** wnd has quit IRC12:31
lcukthat was my first bit of code i wrote for the original book reader :$12:32
lcukfirst time in c in over 10 years :)12:32
lcukahh you are on other stuff lol12:32
*** carboncopy has quit IRC12:33
timeless_mbpyour error handling there is unfortuate12:35
infobottimeless_mbp meant: your error handling there is unfortunate12:35
timeless_mbpwhen getcwd fails, it fills buf with the error string12:35
timeless_mbpwhich means that 86 will do something _funny_12:35
timeless_mbp91/97 don't handle failure :)12:35
* lcuk nods12:37
*** bergie_ has joined #maemo12:37
lcukdamn, andre isnt here12:37
lcukcould do with somewhere to make a proper note about these12:37
lcukim slammed with other stuff so wont change it right now12:38
* lcuk mails himself12:38
*** bergie has quit IRC12:39
*** bergie_ is now known as bergie12:39
timeless_mbpyour spelling of "it's" as "its" in12:39
timeless_mbpis annoying :)12:39
lcukits a comment12:39
RST38hA disturbing probe into the potential for apparently innocent biscuits' ability to do harm has revealed that an astounding 25 million Brits have been injured while indulging in some light coffee/tea break snack action, with 500 victims requiring hospital treatment.12:39
timeless_mbplcuk: "int" is 32bits, right?12:40
lcukthink so12:40
timeless_mbpint liqapp_filesize(char *filename)12:40
timeless_mbpwon't work very well when you encounter an ISO on the 30GB file system of an n900 :)12:40
timeless_mbpchar *liqapp_filename_walkoverpath(char *filename)12:42
timeless_mbpwill do something less than helpful for "/tmp/"12:42
timeless_mbp(possibly intentional, but the comment should explain that)12:42
timeless_mbpint liqapp_file_copy (char * from, char * to, int allowoverwrite)12:43
timeless_mbpcoverity will probably complain about the ability to lose a symlink race12:43
* timeless_mbp doesn't care12:43
lcukhas never been used12:43
lcukwas going to but abandoned12:44
lcukthe walkoverpath is used with files only12:44
lcukie, i already know its a filename and not a dir12:44
timeless_mbpapp.version = strdup(version);12:44
lcukand just want to drop the last bit12:44
timeless_mbpisn't checked for failure12:44
lcukthe title isnt either12:45
lcukif you pass in nulls your program will fail at first run12:45
lcukif a dev lets that out ..12:45
*** Cwiiis has joined #maemo12:45
timeless_mbpoh, i mean alloc failure12:46
timeless_mbpstrdup(0) will crash iirc12:46
timeless_mbptechnically the way you're doing this is unfortunate12:47
timeless_mbpyou really should stick a canary at the end of the string12:47
lcukbut i couldnt think of a better way12:47
timeless_mbpand make sure it's properly managed12:47
timeless_mbpbecause if it isn't, then you're writing to a file which isn't the one you think you are12:47
lcukso im still running at root12:47
lcukbut i want access  to the same data i do when i run from the icon12:48
*** gaspa has joined #maemo12:48
lcukbut obviously ~ is different12:48
timeless_mbpbasically if envhome is incredibly long12:48
timeless_mbpthen it's possible to write to envhome/.liqb12:48
timeless_mbpbecause the 'b' might be the last thing that "safely" fits into the buffer12:49
lcukit doesnt write anywhere12:49
lcukit just checks existance12:49
lcukso if that happened12:49
lcukit would just carry on regardless12:49
lcukusing the ~ that it originally had12:49
timeless_mbpok :), still bad style :), someone might copy your code and think it's safe/good :)12:49
timeless_mbp666 and friends don't alloc check12:49
lcukwell, that is safe/good - there is a max length of the system filenames12:50
lcukand i honour that length12:50
lcukif not my fault if a filepath ends up too long12:50
lcukand who on maemo has a ~ path that would break filename_max12:51
* timeless_mbp shrugs12:51
timeless_mbp /afs/cell/
* lcuk nods12:51
timeless_mbpthe path itself doesn't have to break filename_max, just the path plus your long string :)12:52
lcukthere are much longer strings inside ~12:52
lcukthan i attempt to use there12:52
lcukburied in subfolders12:52
timeless_mbpi just like flagging things once12:53
timeless_mbpit's something i want people to be aware of, since they usually don't really pay attn to such things12:53
lcukyou are like former boss - its damned good12:53
timeless_mbp"i'm safe, i used snprintf instead of sprintf"12:53
lcukhe has a way of breaking apps - and hence making them stronger12:53
timeless_mbp"but what happens when you actually hit that case?" "oh.. um... dunno, it must be safe, right?!"12:53
lcukheh yeah12:53
timeless_mbpreturn returnstatus;12:53
timeless_mbpsurely someone warns that the return is unreachable?12:54
lcuki dont think gcc does for the settings im using, but yeah its silly :$12:54
lcuktheres warnings in numerous places that could do with regoing over12:55
lcukmostly unused variables12:55
*** dantonic has joined #maemo12:55
*** Cwiiis_ has joined #maemo12:58
timeless_mbpanyway, i'm tired :)12:59
*** Cwiiis_ has quit IRC12:59
timeless_mbpbut my ips is still "creating plan"12:59
lcuknot the only one, i think i had 3 hours last night12:59
timeless_mbpjrocha: so um12:59
timeless_mbpthe strings EOG use are disturbing :)12:59
timeless_mbp"_Remove from Toolbar"13:00
timeless_mbpwhy is Toolbar capitalized?13:00
jrochatimeless_mbp, that was not part of my port13:00
timeless_mbpwhat did you actually do? :)13:00
* lcuk sighs relief as timeless switches focus ;)13:01
timeless_mbpwithout guidance, i will wander aimlessly :)13:01
jrochaand I haven't synced the sources in a couple of weeks, so it might be a solved bug13:01
* timeless_mbp rotfl13:02
timeless_mbpfeel free to tell their british localizer that he's supposed to um.... localize words....13:02
timeless_mbpoh, and tell the guy who wrote the original that it's "chosen" not "choosen"13:02
jrochatimeless_mbp, I did all the fremantle code inside EOG13:04
timeless_mbpjrocha: give me a url13:04
timeless_mbpi can't randomly find stuff short of xref'ing it13:04
timeless_mbpand i'm too lazy to do that :)13:04
jrochatimeless_mbp, nr 1: look for the ifdef USE_HILDON if you want13:04
jrochanr 2: I'm at work13:04
timeless_mbpanyway, if EOG has a product, i'll file a couple of bugs13:05
*** ignacius has joined #maemo13:05
jrochanr 3: I haven't asked for your review and I couldn't care less about string issues13:05
* timeless_mbp can't figure out how to use gitweb13:06
* lcuk just crashed gdb13:08
lcukA problem internal to GDB has been detected,13:08
lcukfurther debugging may prove unreliable.13:08
lcukQuit this debugging session? (y or n) ^C13:08
*** disqk is now known as disq13:09
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo13:11
*** dantonic has quit IRC13:13
*** ssvb has joined #maemo13:17
lcuktimeless_mbp, when you have played and ran through the playground or onedotzero have you encountered any stability issues13:21
lcukie - could this be related to the build i have here13:21
lcuksystem build i mean13:21
lcukthats good then :)13:22
timeless_mbpi don't seem to have playground anymore13:22
lcuki got word today that icons have finally appeared for things13:22
timeless_mbpicons = yum13:22
lcukyeah the rocket pencil is dreamy :D13:22
qwerty12_N810i.e. it doesn't leave much to the imagination? :)13:23
* timeless_mbp grumbles13:23
lcukthat same pencil should be in the top right of every screen as well :)13:23
timeless_mbpwhy doesn't ham support portrait?13:23
lcukif you press it you can draw on anything13:23
lcuklol qwerty12_N81013:23
lcukwith liqflow moving, the rocket looks like its flying through space :$13:24
timeless_mbplcuk: you need to get an icon for the package too13:24
lcuki need to add control for it :D13:24
lcukyeah thats what i mean13:24
lcukthis morning i was told it appeared13:24
lcuki didnt do anything more since qwerty showed me how a couple of weeks ago13:24
lcuktimeless problem with my dev at the moment, i have to maintain compatability with the sdk repo13:25
*** fnordianslip has quit IRC13:25
timeless_mbpwait, liqflow listens to the accelerometer/13:26
lcukif you hold it up13:26
lcukit falls like rain13:26
lcukno matter what orientation13:26
lcuki want to do the same with the individual widgets13:27
lcukbut i havent got a polyfill or roto texture mapper13:27
lcuki need the gl backend really13:27
* lcuk hopes javispedro does well with his basics of gles13:27
Captain_Picard n900 users need theese arms13:28
lcuktimeless, it also does something if you shake it13:28
timeless_mbpyeah, i found shaking too13:28
lcuki should really put a video up of all the little nuggets in the system13:28
lcukbut im goin to london today13:29
lcukqwerty12_N810, you still up for saturday?13:29
lcuktimeless, that flow works on 8x0 :)13:29
lcukit surprised me immensely13:29
lcuki thought i would need the power of omap313:30
qwerty12_N810lcuk: hopefully. but I still need to look into getting tickets13:30
lardmanqwerty12_N810: go for Thursday instead13:30
lcukahh h even better13:30
lcukyou two discuss13:30
lardmanlcuk: did you say it was worth going in?13:30
lardmanOr not?13:30
qwerty12_N810lardman: nah, Saturday works out better for me13:30
lardmanqwerty12_N810: fair enough13:30
lcukill text you once i get there and let you know13:31
lcukyou two should be able to get sorted tho13:31
lcukhold on13:31
lcukdidnt someone say something13:31
lcukactually, dig in the itt thread13:31
lcukand look13:31
lcukive gotta do some code changes before i get sorted for leaving13:31
lardmanyeah just wondering if it's still open after 5pm though13:32
lcukpub is either way13:32
* Jaffa 'll be there on Saturday now13:34
lcukyou kinda have to be now lol13:35
lardmanhmm, I chose the wrong day to go to London from the looks of it13:35
Jaffalcuk: I just can't say no to Jussi ;-)13:35
lcukyou can13:35
JaffaWell, I can.13:35
lcukbut only when you are far away from doors13:35
* ccooke preorders an n900. Given the cost, I'm glad I put down some money for this in December :-/13:36
lcukccooke, i cannot fault the device13:36
lcukits cpu is second to none :D13:36
ccookelcuk: *grin*13:38
* lcuk feels the POWER13:38
ccookeHell, this'll be the first time I've ever bought an unlocked phone. Never really cared before13:38
ccookeBut waiting to see if Vodafone take the phone on and offer a subsidy would take too long... especially since I've already upgraded this year (Though on the offchance they do, my wife's due an upgrade :-)13:39
timeless_mbpfwiw, my sister really loves the audio quality on the n90013:40
timeless_mbpshe can tell that i'm using it and is very happy13:40
ccooke(and I'm not exactly thinking it likely there'll be any subsidies)13:40
timeless_mbp(i.e. when i call her from it)13:40
timeless_mbpi love the audio quality too13:40
timeless_mbp(and as people here will note, i rarely give anything resembling praise about products)13:40
* timeless_mbp debates walking to work while sick to grab a bite to eat13:41
*** frade has quit IRC13:41
ccooketimeless_mbp: I pre-ordered an n810 when they were announced. Grabbed my wife one for her next birthday. We'd both been using Zauruses (Zaurii? :-) before then, but since they're discontinued...13:41
lcukccooke, what im impressed by isnt the phone, its the possibility of the phone when i need it - i use tablet much more in data mode and always have done (doh!)13:41
lcukthe datasim in it works perfectly and for the first tiem ever i did internetty stuff whilst sat in the car13:42
timeless_mbpi was quite happy to ditch my n8113:42
timeless_mbpand oddly, i'm not having any problems transitioning from my e61i to the n900's keyboard13:42
timeless_mbpno one will say they love the n900 keyboard, but it definitely works for me13:42
ccookeI'm currently using an HTC Magic. Android is a very nice system, but... there are some limitations I don't like.13:42
suihkulokki< timeless_mbp> i love the audio quality too13:43
suihkulokkiare you sure it's just not the drugs and fever? :P13:43
ccookesuihkulokki: tbh, I was expecting the audio quality to be good. The n810 has stunning audio for such a small device13:43
tigertnobody loves a tiny keyboard when compared to a real one, sure13:43
* ccooke has been resigned (and happy enough) to carry two devices with him everywhere - one for internet tablet and one phone/camera13:44
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: i've said it a couple of times at work13:44
lcuktimeless, i like the size (assuming my proto is same size) and with kb open it is natural to use both the screen and the keyboard13:44
timeless_mbppeople will confirm i've said it13:44
*** bergie has quit IRC13:44
ccookeAndroid is a very good phone and a reasonable replacement for a tablet, but it's terrible as a camera and has limitations I really miss13:45
* timeless_mbp shrugs13:45
lcukliek a "fixed in fremantle" sticker?13:45
timeless_mbpi know tigert has managed to use the n900 camera to get good pictures13:45
*** lizardo has joined #maemo13:46
ccookeThere are a few apps I'm going to have to try to recreate in Maemo, though.13:46
ccookeAnyone used the Android app Locale?13:46
lcukoooh im mentioned
Stskeepswhat rock have you been hiding under? :P13:47
* timeless_mbp rotfl13:48
Myrtti+1 Stskeeps13:48
ccookelcuk: of *course* you're mentioned :-)13:48
lcukStskeeps, one where im working very hard lol13:48
* timeless_mbp repokes Stskeeps 13:48
lcukim coding now a whole list of mods13:48
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: yes, i can test it now :P13:48
*** frade has joined #maemo13:48
* Stskeeps grabs rootsh13:49
timeless_mbpyeah, i had to do that too13:49
ccookeWhat sort of API access is there to phone functions on the n900?13:50
timeless_mbpccooke: dunno :)13:50
ccooketimeless_mbp: heh13:50
timeless_mbpi don't think we've really promised open access to the phone13:50
timeless_mbpi could be wrong13:50
*** baraujo has joined #maemo13:50
StskeepsAPIs? pft, who needs apis when you can move the earth with your device ;p13:50
ccooketimeless_mbp: surely there'll be a programmatic way of - say - sending an SMS13:50
* lcuk facepalms13:50
lcuki have a profanity filter in the app13:51
timeless_mbpccooke: not necessarily13:51
timeless_mbpsending an SMS w/o user confirmation is incredibly scary13:51
lcukbut it warns them they are swearing but doesnt stop em sending13:51
timeless_mbpespecially in some markets where an sms can cost 4EUR13:51
ccooketimeless_mbp: *how* much?13:51
*** eichi__ has joined #maemo13:51
till-i would prefer a global switch for cellphone activity notification13:51
timeless_mbpyou can buy things by SMS in this country13:51
till-and confirmation13:51
timeless_mbpe.g. a tram ticket13:51
ccooketimeless_mbp: oh, sure. Same here.13:51
ccooketimeless_mbp: sorry, I misunderstood for a moment!13:52
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: the current way to rip people off is by charging for receipts, heh13:52
lcukbrb, need bacon13:52
timeless_mbpccooke: i skip over the details, straight to the bottom line13:52
ccooketimeless_mbp: *nod*13:52
timeless_mbpanyway, i'm not really sure what is offered13:52
timeless_mbpideally you should be able to open an SMS compose window w/ prefilled content13:53
ccooketimeless_mbp: Fair enough. I see I'll have to play around.13:53
timeless_mbphowever i'm not certain if that exists13:53
timeless_mbpand even that is scary13:53
ccooketimeless_mbp: There are good use cases for sending an automatic SMS, though13:53
timeless_mbpoh, i know13:53
timeless_mbpthe n810 maps app had a way to use it for beacons13:53
ccooketimeless_mbp: I can give you several extremely good examples13:53
timeless_mbp(the strings there were incredibly shitty, but...)13:53
timeless_mbpccooke: nah, not required13:53
ccooketimeless_mbp: so really, what's needed is a way for the user to authorise a particular app to send SMS.13:54
till-maybe a white-list with "truested" numbers where sms can be send to without notification13:54
timeless_mbpbut i don't think we have a framework for that in fremantle13:54
ccookeI think that could work.13:54
timeless_mbpand if hypothetically, harmattan were to have such a thing13:54
ccooketimeless_mbp: it could be built easily.13:54
timeless_mbpi'm sure people would complain :)13:54
ccooketimeless_mbp: thing is, if you have root access to the phone you should be able to send SMS. GSM is not a difficult protocol.13:55
timeless_mbpin unix, doing that requires either proper acls or users/groups13:55
* till- just imagines some sort of "virus" which sends such sms13:55
ccooketimeless_mbp: sudo.13:55
timeless_mbptill-: aren't there symbian things that do precisely that? :)13:56
ccooketimeless_mbp: it's not hard to run an app with a modified sudo wrapper.13:56
*** Komzpa has joined #maemo13:56
timeless_mbpccooke: ham :)13:56
ccooketimeless_mbp: ham?13:56
timeless_mbphildon-application-manager, commonly "ham"13:56
ccooketimeless_mbp: oh, right13:56
timeless_mbpanyway, it's definitely doable13:56
timeless_mbpand i think it's reasonable to assume some approach for doing it is under discussion at nokia13:57
timeless_mbphowever, i don't think it was done for fremantle, and i don't know if it will appear in harmattan13:57
ccooketimeless_mbp: yes, but why bother waiting? I'd be willing to bet that I could knock up the backed for such a thing for my own use with little effort13:57
timeless_mbpwell, i'm not going to stop you13:58
timeless_mbpi'll just remind you about security concerns13:58
timeless_mbpthe people @nokia are busy working on other things13:58
timeless_mbpor this for harmattan13:58
* timeless_mbp shrugs13:58
*** ignacius_ has joined #maemo13:59
ccookeKnowing what Nokia are working on is always problematic13:59
ccookeThey've generally chosen a good set of things, of course13:59
timeless_mbpso many things, so little time13:59
timeless_mbpi work for nokia13:59
timeless_mbpi have no idea what everyone's doing :)13:59
timeless_mbpyesterday i discovered a number of surprises13:59
ccookeYeah, I know a couple of people who work for Nokia and I hear that a lot :-)13:59
timeless_mbpif you want a cool challenge, we have one available14:00
* RST38h wants money. Is any available?14:00
timeless_mbpit probably requires: 1. kernel hacking. 2. hal glue. 3. a bit of userspace near some media player (ukmp, whatever)14:00
timeless_mbpRST38h: i could toss up a bit for this, yes14:00
timeless_mbpprobably 50EUR, but it really isn't enough to cover the basic pain14:01
* ccooke bows out, if there's people wanting money :-)14:01
timeless_mbpoh, and i'll toss in the relevant accessory too :)14:01
ccookeWhat's the problem, anyway?14:01
timeless_mbpccooke: oh, i doubt RST38h would actually take the offer14:01
lardmango on, you've got us hooked now :)14:01
lcuktill-, there was a recent report/thing about using iphone to bring down cell towers14:02
lcukjussi thinks maemo hackers will do more!14:02
Myrttium, I just installed dropbear ssh client to my N800... how the hell do I use it? should I reboot or something to make the device detect it's there, or is it installed by some other app name than ssh?14:02
RST38hlcuk: So, how do you do it? Find the sweet spot and bury iPhone there, wrapped in thermal blanket ?14:02
lcukyou could throw enough of em at it14:03
lardmanthat won't work as you need low level access14:03
lcukbut *gasp* we have root14:03
RST38hMyrtti: Not sure about dropbear but the standard ssh does not seem to require reboot14:03
jaskaconnect explosives to iphone, tape iphone to celltower, run away, call iphone14:03
ccookeMyrtti: open up the terminal and type 'ssh'14:03
lardmanno, low level with the GSM stuff14:03
lcukyeah i know14:03
Myrtticcooke: unsurprisingly, I did.14:03
lcukwe can only talk to the modem14:03
RST38hMyrtti: You install it, enter new root password, and get both client and server (the latter running)14:03
ccookeMyrtti: and you had an error message?14:04
lcukand if the modem is written properly it should be impossible14:04
Myrtti-sh: ssh: not found14:04
lcukhey lardman i got a usb broadband router from o214:04
lcukit came with a pay and go sim :)14:04
lcukguess where it got rehomed ;) :D14:04
Myrttifuck it, I'll install openssh14:04
lardmanI use TalkTalk :)14:04
lcukto run ssh for the first time14:05
lcukreboot, or14:05
Myrttilcuk: I only wanted the client...14:05
RST38hMyrtti: dpkg-query -L <package>14:05
Myrttioh well14:05
lcukoh lol14:05
RST38hMyrtti: before you do the right thing (openssh), do dpkg-query -L14:05
RST38hOut of academic curiosity14:05
lcuktimeless, does your console now remember history correctly - at first and on this build it doesnt remember between sessions14:06
*** bergie has joined #maemo14:06
lcukusing ssh14:07
lcukwhenever i restart sessino my 810 would remember last X commands14:07
lcukthis old (very!) buld i have here doesnt remember anything14:07
timeless_mbpdoesn't seem to here14:08
Myrttidbclient?! what happened to obvious appnames?14:08
timeless_mbpnot sure if that's busybox being unhelpful14:08
timeless_mbpor a config thing14:08
timeless_mbpor ...14:08
timeless_mbpMyrtti: obvious app names like eog?14:08
*** jgoss has quit IRC14:08
lcukMyrtti, they were removed in the update for pink_ponies14:09
* timeless_mbp didn't know ham supported install from file14:09
lcukdoes anyone recognise the font in use on these screenies14:10
lcukand do they have it on their system, and could you just do me a quick mockup screen if i asked14:10
*** lopz has quit IRC14:10
* lcuk cannot wait for email14:10
zerojayPCtimeless_mbp: I thought HAM was supposed to not have that ability in Fremantle?14:11
timeless_mbpzerojayPC: i think there's a difference between "ham features" and "red pill"14:12
ccookelcuk: looks familiar. I could ask a couple of typophiles for you, if you like14:12
timeless_mbpand it looks like it moved to red pill14:12
zerojayPChmm, k14:12
lcukplease, ive been asked to insert an intermediate "sending message, please wait" screen14:12
lcukbut havent had any artwork back yet14:12
lcuk(and its not the pictures of jacob or the sketches lol14:13
ccookelcuk: specifically the font on the first row of screens?14:13
qwerty12_N810lcuk: How do you use a font in your program without knowing how to at least get the name? :)14:13
ccooke(the "Move me", "Shake me" bit?)14:13
lcukqwerty12_N810, its artwork - sent over from psd14:13
lcuki know nothing14:13
lcuki can just throw things around14:13
lcukyeah ccook14:13
lcukjust something that isnt my default crappy thing :$14:13
ccookelcuk: Okay. Looks like the people I know are semi-offline, but I'll let you know when they reply14:14
timeless_mbpyeah. red pill supports install file14:14
lcukccooke, ta - i mightv heard back in half hour, just wanting to tick it off my list14:15
* lcuk still has 120301230123129823423 things to do14:15
lcukzerojayPC, :) yeah looks good with a bit of makeup on doesnt it14:15
zerojayPClcuk: Red pill?14:16
lcukoh lol14:16
ccookelcuk: I hope any todo list app you write has bignum support, then14:16
lcuklol ccooke yeah it should have14:16
lcukat least if the number is long enough i know i can scroll smoothly to the end :)14:16
* lcuk wishes he had the database working faster - the combined graffiti wall on the web looks so good14:17
*** stemosco has quit IRC14:17
*** murrayc has quit IRC14:21
*** zap has quit IRC14:24
ccookelcuk: what DB is it?14:24
*** ziyourenxiang has joined #maemo14:24
*** stemosco has joined #maemo14:25
ccookeAh :-/14:26
lcuki wrote it to use it, and when i filled it up it was 115mb14:26
lcukand it was slower saving a new sketch into it that it is to upload to web14:26
*** jrocha has quit IRC14:26
ShadowJKit's funny how review sites claim N810 can't run more than one app at the same time14:26
lcukusing data modem14:26
lcukshow em liqbase14:27
ccookeShadowJK: er. They do?14:27
zerojayPCYes, the Register does.14:27
*** dieb_ has quit IRC14:27
lcukmaybe its the visual app at once thing14:27
zerojayPCAnd also claims the N900 is a combo GSM/CDMA phone.14:27
*** alecrim has joined #maemo14:27
ShadowJKtheinquirer also claims no multitasking on n81014:28
zerojayPCIt's pretty irresponsible.14:28
ccookezerojayPC: you're expecting good journalism from the register and theinquirer?!14:28
AStormtheir tech reports should die ;P14:29
zerojayPCccooke: I expect good journalism from anyone that considers themselves to be journalists, yes.14:29
ccookelcuk: Typophile says: "heh. A lot of the identifying letters aren't there. no numbers, no punctuation, no special characters, no G Q J"14:29
ccookezerojayPC: I wish I lived in your world :-)14:29
lcukyeah i know14:29
lcukzerojayPC, i dont think the register or inquirer have ever thought of themselves as journos14:30
lcukinfact, BOFH could be modelled on their daily activities14:30
zerojayPCccooke: If you don't expect good journalism from every journalist, you get nothing but shit from everyone. All you gotta do is expect it and if they don't give it to you, roast them for it.14:30
ShadowJK"Besides being quad band GSM phone, we've been told the N900 is also a quad band CDMA phone for accessing almost all North American networks. There is no other phone in the Nokia portfolio to date that has this vast rage of communications capabilities. Nokia hasn't made public whose chipset it has used for the phone functions of the N900, but it has worked in HSPA over the HSDPA variant for the much improved uplink speeds, which isn't even in their flag14:31
ShadowJKship N97 model."14:31
AStormffs. HSPA is not CDMA.14:31
ccookeAStorm: it does not say that14:32
*** wnd has joined #maemo14:32
ccookeit says "It has CDMA and they've also added HSPA"14:32
Captain_Picardnokia comming out with LTE next year14:32
AStormat most, it can be said it *uses* WCDMA14:32
Captain_Picardforget WCDMA and HSPA14:32
AStormCDMA that means RSIM?14:32
Captain_PicardLTE is here14:32
AStormexcept no operator supports it, so it's dead14:33
AStormoh, except Finland.14:33
*** ZogG has quit IRC14:33
Captain_Picardnot yet!14:33
*** jrocha has joined #maemo14:33
AStormnext year is still too soon14:33
*** ZogG has joined #maemo14:33
AStormLTE needs hardware overhaul at the cells14:33
AStormunlikely to happen so fast14:34
AStormexcept where it's already there, like Finland14:34
ShadowJKNobody is running LTE in finland either14:35
ShadowJKBut some operators have applied for license to share 1800MHz (or was it 1900?) with GSM and LTE14:35
AStormthey don't advertise it, but the hardware is present at least14:35
AStormoh BTW, LTE should use IPv614:35
AStormotherwise it will be fairly pointless ;>14:35
suihkulokkiwasnt 3g supposed to use IPv6 too? :P14:35
ShadowJKyeah it would, if the operators stopped being asshats.14:36
AStormnah, 3G is not IP-based really14:36
ShadowJKNokia has been a supported of IPv6 for ages. All their symbian phones have IPv6 support14:36
ShadowJKIPv6 improves battery life :)14:36
ShadowJKAlso according to theinq; N900 has 24 hour always-on batterylife, twice that of N81014:37
ShadowJKI think they use random number generator :)14:37
*** DarwinSurvivor has joined #maemo14:37
ShadowJKAStorm, there's not even decent 3G coverage in .fi yet, let alone any LTE :)14:38
ShadowJKBut the data plans are decent, atleast.14:38
AStormShadowJK: that is idle lifetime14:40
ShadowJKN8x0 idles 2 days or something on wifi14:40
AStormsince the biggest consumer is the display backlight... and that has been improved14:40
ShadowJKand my E75 does a couple of days idling on irc :P14:40
AStormShadowJK: not with screen on.14:40
AStormidling on irc? hardly possible, unless it uses EDGE with heavy power saving14:41
AStormactually, it'd be a fairly smart modem to toggle techs14:41
ShadowJKYeah only edge coverage here14:42
CorsacShadowJK: 2 days on wifi with PM enabled14:42
ShadowJKin 3G coverage it does toggle between 3g and 3.5g14:42
CorsacShadowJK: not all access point manage that :(14:42
Corsac(freeboxes, the wifi box used by one of the top french ISP, isn't PM friendly at all :/ )14:42
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC14:43
AStormmy Linksys WAG200 supports power saving14:43
AStormbut it's likely still not enough14:43
AStormN810 and N900 should toggle transmit power dynamically14:43
ShadowJKLuckily ISPs here aren't providing wifi boxes (not many, atleast)14:44
AStorm(n810 doesn't, it always blasts 100 mW, just less often if PM is present)14:44
ccookelcuk: On the font: It's not in the databases she has access to. Is it a nokia-specific trademarked font?14:44
ShadowJKAStorm, oh once I compared power use when sending a file from N810 to PC over wifi, with 100mW and smaller... there was hardly any difference in total power use..14:44
ShadowJKmost of the power goes elsewhere..14:44
ShadowJKN810 power use at max wifi transmit speed is something like 1.5+ Watt. 0.1 vs 0.01 is relatively marginal :/14:46
AStormI think SDHC and display backlight are the worst power consumers there14:48
ccookeIt's the idle usage that matters14:48
lcukccooke, i dunno lol14:48
* lcuk is not wise to such things14:48
ccookeI've replaced an access point because it wouldn't use PM properly - our N810s would die without about 10 hours14:49
lcukthanks for asking tho14:49
AStormidle is not as important as you'd think... unless that idle means "connected and using minor webapps"14:51
*** setanta has joined #maemo14:51
AStormwhich would be e.g. weather, mail check, irc, idle IM14:51
ccookeAStorm: my n810 is never offline :-)14:52
ShadowJKwith IPv6 the mail check could actually be imap idle14:52
ccookewell, apart from the tube or at work (where it's not allowed on the wifi)14:52
ShadowJKin reality with IPv4 all sorts of NAT crap means TCP sessions on survive only 10 seconds in worst case14:53
ShadowJKor was it 30 seconds14:53
ccookeThere's a question I've been meaning to ask14:53
ShadowJKsending a keep-alive every 10 seconds for a day eats batterylife even if no emails were to arrived14:53
ccookeAnyone know if the Mail for Exchange on the n900 supports push email?14:53
*** stemosco has quit IRC14:53
ccooketimeless_mbp: As opposed to polling.14:54
timeless_mbpthe settings don't seem to indicate it does14:55
timeless_mbpdoes that actually work well?14:55
timeless_mbpi'd imagine it'd result in lots of stuck network connections while traveling14:55
ccooketimeless_mbp: er... Most of the mobile world has been doing it for years now.14:56
timeless_mbpdoes most of the mobile world travel to iceland? :)14:56
*** halves has joined #maemo14:56
ccookeit works very well.14:56
timeless_mbpi'm told the cellular world sucks up there :)14:56
SpCombIPv6 will still have stateful firewalls...14:56
ShadowJKI get "stuck connections" on Saunalahti/Elisa in .fi when moving from 2G to 3G coverage :)14:56
timeless_mbpShadowJK: it's sympathy w/ iceland :)14:56
ShadowJKbut on DNA it's rock solid14:56
ShadowJKunfortunately dna doesn't even have edge coverage here :)14:57
timeless_mbpor fortunately?14:57
ShadowJKwhat do you mean..14:57
ccooketimeless_mbp: I've never experienced a stuck connection dealing with push email. First time I used it on a phone was a SE k750 IIRC, but it wasn't new then.14:57
timeless_mbpShadowJK: how do you know edge isn't the cause of the problem? :)14:57
ccooke(that was imap push support)14:57
glasstimeless_mbp: it's rather stupid to say that no coverage is better than some14:58
glasswhich i suspect is the case?14:58
timeless_mbpglass: who said no coverage?14:58
timeless_mbphe said no edge. that doesn't imply no 2g14:58
ShadowJKtimeless, right, when I'm out driving, when I get this problem on elisa, I also drive in and out of DNA edge and 3g coverage areas, and that works seamlessly :)14:58
kirmaproperly functioning NATs should really drop UDP connections only after half a minute or so, and TCP connections after two hours or something... or at least tens of minutes14:58
glasstimeless_mbp: i'd think dna to have edge everywhere they got masts, or then they're using some stone age equipment14:58
timeless_mbpglass: low quality but consistently working coverage is better than variable coverage which gets stuck and requires something tantamount to a reboot14:58
timeless_mbpglass: ask ShadowJK ....14:59
ShadowJKglass, yeah most of their masts are gprs14:59
ShadowJKwithout edge14:59
timeless_mbpglass: please don't assume i'm wrong14:59
timeless_mbpit's unfair to me14:59
glassdna should get off their butts then.. but i suppose thats not news14:59
* timeless_mbp sighs15:00
* timeless_mbp goes off to screwer someone15:00
ShadowJKPlus, all 3 networks basically have something like 99.9% gprs coverage, I took that for granted15:00
*** stemosco has joined #maemo15:00
*** tonikitoo| has quit IRC15:00
ShadowJK(in saying no edge and not mentioning gprs)15:00
AStormhere, almost all have EDGE15:02
glassit's been a while since i've seen non-edge too, been on sonera for a while though(not my choice or money paying for it..)15:03
AStormHSPA has more problems with reach (esp. in cities, woods or mountains, even if a mast is available)15:03
ShadowJKedge coverage seems to grow randomly, at approximately the rate ancient equipment breaks and is replaced by now :)15:03
timeless_mbpglass: hey, you speak Finnish, right?15:03
timeless_mbphow often do native Finnish speakers confuse First and Second person?15:03
ShadowJKSonera has no edge within about 50km or so :)15:03
timeless_mbpor how easily do they do that?15:03
glasstimeless_mbp: there's this thing called teitittely in finnish15:03
timeless_mbpi don't know that word :)15:04
glasstimeless_mbp: which is basically some ancient remains of thou dost shit you see in ultima games15:04
ShadowJKI can't enumerate language, I need examples! :-)15:04
glasstimeless_mbp: he/she gets confused quite often15:04
kirmafirst and second person are not the same as singular and plural15:04
timeless_mbpglass: that's third person15:04
timeless_mbphow about confusing "Me" and "You" ?15:05
glasstimeless_mbp: you can be sinä, sä, te15:05
glasssä is not correct but is used quite often15:05
timeless_mbpi understand that finns are mostly gender free15:05
timeless_mbpwhich means that they have more chances to insult Poles15:05
glasstimeless_mbp: and plenty of local dialects/slang thworn in15:05
ShadowJKconfusing me and you? Ho do you do that15:05
timeless_mbpShadowJK: that's my question :)15:05
kirma"sinä" in this case is rather a replacement for passive... or at least if it isn't, it doesn't make sense15:05
suihkulokkiin polite finnish, one does not use "vittu" as comma and "perkele" as period15:05
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: the former is a curse15:06
lcukthere is so much language15:06
lcukso verbose15:06
glassvittu is the fuck of finnish language15:06
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, now you just have to give us an example15:06
glass"ne vitun idiootit ei vittu oo taaskaan vittu tehneet niit juttui vittu" those fucking idiots haven't done stuff, again, fuck!15:07
glassrather "that stuff"15:07
suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: the joke goes that the only way a finn was able to explain the widespread usage of those words to foreigner was they are used in place of comma and period in common speech15:07
lcuktimeless, i mentioned before about rotating widgets15:08
Macerhm. my artigo's bios isn't compatible with win7 it seems15:08
Macerwtf is so special with acpi that it REQUIRES it? :)15:09
lcukdrm isnt it15:09
lcukfull protected pathway ensuring no hypervisor (so i thought)15:09
jaskaacpi? nah.. not drm15:09
jaskathey just didnt want to support old-style configuration15:09
glassMacer: huh. did it refuse to install?15:10
*** krau has joined #maemo15:10
Macerglass: yes15:10
Macergot a blue screen15:10
Macerand a "not fully acpi compatible bios" msg15:10
glasscrazy decisions15:10
RST38hglass: so, vit* is "fuck"?15:11
Macerwanted to put win7 on my artigo .. with its 1GHz C7 processor beast15:11
jaskavittu means cunt literally, but its used like fuck15:11
glassRST38h: fuck means fucking, as in making love. vittu doesn't, vittu as such "is" pussy but almost never used in that way15:11
glassas such it's just a word that sounds nice when swearing and or putting a point15:12
glassyou can put a lot of emotional force on it15:12
JaffaX-Fade: ping15:12
RST38hglass: Russians normally use male organs in this context15:13
glass"vittujen kevät ja kyrpien takatalvi" can be used when everything hits the fan. which in finland tends to be quite often15:13
glass"spring of pussies and extended winter of dicks"15:14
*** povbot has joined #maemo15:17
RST38hMacer: Will he get reelected BEFORE his current term is up? =)15:17
Maceri mean when is enough.. enough?15:17
ShadowJKMacer, it's not about what level the dow is.. it's about jobs, jobs, jobs :)15:17
MacerRST38h: personally i don't think he has done a bad job15:17
MacerShadowJK: not really15:17
ShadowJKand I don't mean Steve15:17
RST38hShadowJK: Who mentioned Steve Jobs again in this channel?15:17
Macercashing in on stock can make money ;)15:17
Macerjust inflate it a bit and sell it15:17
glassproblem with learning finnish is quite often that the book-finnish has quite often nothing to do with the finnish people actually speak15:17
* Macer points at enron15:17
RST38hMacer: Given the current cluster fuck, there is not much he can do15:17
MacerRST38h: well.. he doesn't really have to do anything15:18
Maceri mean when he got in it was rock bottom15:18
derfMacer: The vast majority of the US population does not own stocks.15:18
Macerso honestly he can just sit back15:18
RST38hglass: Hehe, try learning Ukrainian :)15:18
Macerby the time his term is up he can claim responsibility on a better economy15:18
derfAnd most of those that do own them in mutual funds in retirement accounts.15:18
threshukrainian is easy15:18
glassRST38h: i'd rather not :D whats ukrainian related to?15:18
RST38hglass: Then suddenly find out most Ukrainians speak slightly accented Russian.15:18
threshjust broken russian15:18
Macerclinton did it ;)15:18
Macereverybody loved clinton because times were good and the computer industry was in an absolute boom15:18
glassRST38h: actually on the russian side of the border theres small villages that speak sort-of-finnish15:19
RST38hglass: Written Ukrainian is a somewhat artifical language created by 3 bored intellectuals at the end of XIX century15:19
MacerRST38h: like klingon? :)15:19
RST38hglass: It merges all the dialects they could find, the problem is that they were all dialects of Russian :)15:19
threshthat's just not true15:19
threshit wasnt invented in XIX15:20
RST38hMacer: Klingon is original :)15:20
RST38hthresh: Well, this is what Wiki seems to imply15:20
* dottedmag requests the Zolotaryov and Siberian language to this channel!15:20
Macerthere is a siberian language? :)15:20
RST38hdottedmag: Only if we start with a human sacrifice to Perun15:20
glasswhat do they do in siberia for fun nowadays?15:20
ShadowJKMacer, several I'm sure15:20
threshdottedmag: ohai15:20
derfglass: Leave.15:20
Macerglass: they move ;)15:20
dottedmagthresh: preved15:20
dottedmagMacer: there are skams15:21
dottedmagglass: I'm damn sitting here in front of monitor. Not really fun.15:21
Maceris that a type of shellfish?15:21
dottedmagMacer: scams15:21
RST38hglass: Whoe republic of Mari El speaks sort of finnish15:21
Macerdottedmag: huh?15:22
*** blade_runner has joined #maemo15:22
Macercapitalism is one big scam ;)15:22
Macersell something worth less than someone else pays for it15:22
glassRST38h: if it's a whole republic it's not such pointless as a village with 50-100 people15:22
RST38hglass: And Komi too, or whatever is left of them anyway15:22
dottedmagMacer: read the history of Siberian wikipedia. They finally closed it fortunately.15:22
RST38hglass: And Mordovia15:22
RST38hglass: And Udmurtia, for that matter15:23
Maceroh. you mean siberian language :)15:23
Maceri always just ifugred siberia was a part of Russia so people there spoke russian15:23
threshof course they do15:23
dottedmagYes, we do :)15:23
glassvodka is vodka in any language15:23
RST38hMacer: "siberian" is a special case15:23
threshthey don't really look like proper humans, though15:23
Macerglass: haha15:23
threshsome of them have dog heads15:23
dottedmagAnd we all speak ISO-8859-515:24
RST38hMacer: There was a guy suggesting splitting Siberia off and he started by creating a language15:24
threshas i've heard15:24
ssvbRST38h: or alternatively Russian language is a broken version of Ukrainian (result of the influence from Tatars when Russians were conquered by them), there is no point discussing this crap or take it serious15:24
RST38hssvb: That won't fly, as there is no single dialect of Ukrainian15:25
ShadowJKMacer, Siberia is also where they dumped all the unwanted people. So there are hundreds of small communities isolated from the world with their own languages15:25
dottedmagBTW, regarding languages.15:25
ShadowJKiirc they're still discovering them today15:25
dottedmagwhere to look for input methods on incoming n900?15:25
*** alextreem has joined #maemo15:25
RST38hssvb: The idea of a single proto-language from which they all developed is a valid one though15:25
dottedmagAre they adjustable?15:25
MacerShadowJK: haha15:25
*** tonikitoo| has joined #maemo15:26
MacerRST38h: all languages are derived from another... look at english. :) doesn't it have the same characteristics?15:26
RST38hdottedmag: Two input methods, full screen kbd and physical kbd15:26
Maceryou find all types of different english dialects throughout the US alone15:26
dottedmagRST38h: well, I'm interested in physical keyboard layout15:26
RST38hdottedmag: rest is apparently dead unless you are willing to add your own15:26
dottedmagIs it plain old xkb?15:26
RST38hMacer: There is standard American English though15:26
glass_problem with finnish currently is that there's people who want to keep it pure, which is a failure as it seriously hampers engineering discussions and even teaching them15:27
MacerRST38h: there isn't standard russian?15:27
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo15:27
RST38hMacer: There is15:27
*** m3kyd has joined #maemo15:27
Macerso what's the difference?15:27
RST38hMacer: But spoken Ukrainian varies so widely that you can't pin it down15:27
Macermost southerners in the US to not adhere to using standard english15:27
*** alextreme has quit IRC15:27
RST38hMacer: There is written, literary Ukrainian, but it is kinda artifical15:27
dottedmagRST38h: spoken German too, who cares?15:27
ShadowJKkeeping finnish pure is a pretty strange concept, when lots of linguists love finnish because it has absorbed (and preserved) so many words from other languages over the centuries :)15:28
MacerRST38h: language evolution15:28
RST38hdottedmag: Don't know much about German15:28
Macershakespeare invented hundreds of words15:28
RST38hDid he?15:28
Macersure did ;)15:28
RST38hExample? =)15:28
* RST38h wasn't aware15:28
threshas well as Black Adder did15:28
*** tonikitoo| is now known as tonikitoo15:29
*** chenca has joined #maemo15:29
ShadowJKAs a funny sidenote, the guy who translated the Bible to finnish had to invent a word for "mercy" ;-)15:29
Macerso it might not be an "artificial" language.. simply the same language reinvented15:30
Macerwhich is very common15:30
Macerlook at ebonic english for example15:30
*** m3kyd has quit IRC15:30
Maceramazing huh?15:30
RST38hMacer: No, it is not reinvented15:30
RST38hMacer: absolutely15:30
*** user_ is now known as Schumpeter15:30
Macersure it is15:30
Macerdidn't we have this discussion before? :)15:30
Macerget enough people to call a tree a horse.. then a tree is a horse15:31
RST38hMacer: There are two discussions: if you mean Shakespeare, it is awesome15:31
Maceri'm suprised you didn't know that ;)15:31
RST38hMacer: If you mean same language reinvented, it was not like that with Ukrainian15:31
Macerthat is a tiny list15:31
Macerthere are a lot of words he just made up15:31
Macerprobably for poetic justice in some of his writings15:31
RST38hMacer: Multiple local dialects were gathered and the words were cherry picked from these dialects to create a synthetic language15:32
RST38hmacer: Sorta like a local esperanto15:32
MacerRST38h: in abstract, one might say all languages are artificial ;)15:32
RST38hMacer: Wasn't evolution, wasn't reinvention, was rather a mashup. The result is not that bad btw, except that very few people speak it and every .UA nazi seems to be bent on changing it to his liking15:33
Macerwhich was my point with pointing out shakespearian invented words15:33
*** hannesw has quit IRC15:33
RST38hMacer: Not meaning anything deep or philosophical, really15:33
Macerenglish is derived from multiple languages also, which evolved over years15:33
Macerwords start out locally and spread, and if enough people use the word it is accepted into the culture15:34
RST38hMacer: Way different story with English15:34
Macerwhy? because it was more recent?15:34
RST38hMacer: Because English has not been created by 3 intellectuals 150 years ago15:34
RST38hMacer: It evolved as result of different people speaking it, then writing in it15:35
Macerjust because english had more people to create it doesn't make the Ukrane language any different15:35
Maceras i said. if you get enough people to use the same words.. then it is just another language15:35
RST38hMacer: Again, we are not talking "less" people, we are talking of a finite countable number of 3 :)15:36
Macerthe speed of its evolution is irrelevant15:36
Macerso... like klingon ;)15:36
RST38hMacer: Klingon is completely artificial though but yes, I see your point :)15:36
*** jgoss has joined #maemo15:36
Maceri still hold firm in every language being artificial15:37
RST38hNot really15:37
timeless_mbpShadowJK: giving you an example requires me to pull out another phone15:37
timeless_mbpi'm too lazy to do that15:37
Maceri wish i could find an image of the painting that reminds me of this15:37
RST38hBut there are some really funny examples, like Hebrew or modern Greek15:37
Maceri had this discussion in a humanities class where the painting was shown15:38
Macerit had proper words for things except a horse was called a door or something like that15:38
lcukwell thats the one im at15:38
Macerand the professor asked "why is it different?"15:38
Maceri told her "maybe in the artist's land.. a horse is called a door"15:39
*** wazd has joined #maemo15:39
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, ah. Nokia has mostly fixed that now IME :)15:39
timeless_mbpi have 5 phones w/ batteries easily accessible, 4 w/ sims15:40
Macerwords are just accepted descriptions15:40
timeless_mbpi'd just need to get one of the two that aren't n900s15:40
Macerso all language is artificial ... the moon is called the moon simply because most people have agreed on a name for it15:40
*** Schumpeter is now known as usir15:40
timeless_mbpMacer: yareach15:40
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, Oh. I thought you were ircing from s60v3fp0 and afraid of opening browser to find the example would kill the irc client ;)15:41
timeless_mbpoh, no15:41
MacerShadowJK: hahaha15:41
timeless_mbpconnecting to freenet typically causes my n81 to reboot15:41
MacerShadowJK: that sounds more like android than symbian15:41
timeless_mbp_mbp = macbook pro15:41
*** stemosco has quit IRC15:41
Macerandroid randomly closes apps running in the background to free memory15:41
Macerit is idiotic15:41
ShadowJKMacer, symbian kills stuff when you run out of RAM, and early S60 nokia phones were very RAM-starved :)15:42
*** fnordianslip has joined #maemo15:42
MacerShadowJK: hm. my n95 never seemed to do that15:42
ShadowJKN95 has 128M RAM15:42
ShadowJKIt's more of an issue on the ones where you've got 14M ram free with no apps at all open15:42
usirn810 is amazingly scratch resistant15:42
MacerShadowJK: heh. yeah .. like android ;)15:43
Macermy G1 is notrious forthat15:43
*** hannesw has joined #maemo15:44
Macermind you it has 192MB15:44
glassMacer: n95's ram situation improved a lot when they added on demand paging on fw update15:44
kirmaN70 was nice otherwise... but it had 64M RAM or something.15:44
kirmaE70 even15:44
Macerandroid is like the Vista of phones15:45
*** chenca has quit IRC15:45
glassn70 had the most(?) of 2nd ed devices of free ram, was sweet15:45
ShadowJKoh wait, it's only N95 8g that has 128M ram.. the non-8g version has less ram15:45
kirmathat was pretty horrible in contrast to earlier S60s15:45
MacerShadowJK: i had the n95-315:45
kirmaI typoed, E70 I meant...15:45
glassi think -3 had the bigger amount of ram too, not sure(it's on forum nokia pages though..)15:45
Macerglass: got rid of it when i got rid of att15:46
*** chenca has joined #maemo15:46
glass3250 however, is the biggest crapper of all s60's15:46
usirdoes ovi have a reasonable pay-to-play drm?15:46
Macerbought a black housing for it and sold it to someone for $15015:46
Macerif i could find a way to bankrupt att on purpose i would do it :)15:46
Maceri hate att so much15:46
RST38hWho likes AT&T?15:46
glassMacer: gov would bail it i'm afraid :\15:46
RST38hAside from Darth Vader that is15:46
MacerRST38h: i guess a lot of people15:46
Macerglass: hahaha15:46
RST38hI can't think of any15:46
Maceryeah. we've given up on true capitalism since enron15:47
usirsince 191315:47
MacerRST38h: well. they are still the largest ;)15:47
RST38hway before that15:47
jaskaspeaking of s60s... i need to go loot the camera sensor from the 660015:47
glassjaska: is it easily interfaceable, to say, atmega projects?15:47
MacerRST38h: no. deregulation of power was a step towards real capitalism15:47
jaskadont know yet.. its lowres tho (vga)15:47
Macertoo bad we had corperate hitlers running the show  with it15:47
SpeedEvilglass: no15:47
glassjaska: yeh but i got a 6600 somewhere stashed hehe15:48
jaskait was my first and last symbian/s60:)15:48
SpeedEvilglass: essentially all phone cameras use the SCCM (?) bus15:48
Macerman i loved my n95 cam15:48
glassSpeedEvil: ok, would be easier to write a prog for symbian that dumped the data then i suppose15:48
*** jukey has joined #maemo15:48
Maceri wish i could have kept my n95 with tmob15:48
Macerbut they had to use their crazy freq15:48
glass6600 has ir too. hmm15:49
SpeedEvilglass: this has I2C - to setup the camera - which the micro can do fine. And then it has a parallel databus that you have to read fast enough to read the whole camera data out in 1/60th of a second. They don't have any onboard storage - and going slower than that will not give a picture15:49
usirin germany most phones can run on most networks, iirc15:49
SpeedEvilglass: very few small micros can read most of a megabyte in 1/60th sec15:49
glassin europe in most regions the operators played nice with others when choosing tech15:50
Macerglass: well. in the US they are all cut throat15:50
Maceri'm sure berkley is sad they allowed the gnu to come about15:51
glassyeh been following some usa mobilers15:51
Maceri just pray that the n900 is supported by tmob15:51
RST38hmacer: cut customers' throat that is15:52
Macerif it's not i'm giving up on a phone altogether15:52
MacerRST38h: oh. that's all business ;)15:52
*** alecrim has quit IRC15:52
Macersome places aren't like that.. like usually newspapers work together15:52
*** alecrim has joined #maemo15:52
Macerthey try not to step on each other's toes in order to keep sales stable15:52
usiri wonder what government regulatory structure incentivises this market failure15:53
Macerthat's the only business i can think of though heh15:53
Macerusir: low pricing15:53
Macerand i don't really think it is the government regulatory structure15:54
Macerrealisticailly, if the economy takes off and the government profits from its bail out money by selling shares for 2x their worth when bought. how much of that money do you think will truly make it into a tax cut? :)15:55
* Macer is thinking none considering the country's debt15:55
usirif you dont know the answer just admit15:55
*** zap_ is now known as zap15:55
Macermisdirection didn't work huh? :)15:56
*** matt_c has joined #maemo15:56
usirsmart guz :)15:56
*** kabtoffe_ has quit IRC15:57
Macerwasn't a term of the car bail out that manufacturing comes back into the US?15:57
*** murrayc has joined #maemo15:57
Macerand that unions were told to take a pay cut in order to cushion the car companies?15:58
usirRoosevelt killed 6 million pigs.  Obama kills x million cars.  Same stupidity, 80 years later15:58
RST38hFor manufacturing to come back, USD should fall to 1/2-1/3 of its current value15:58
Macerthat seems like a good incentive for both the unemployed and companies15:58
* RST38h would rather prefer USD to stay the same15:58
MacerRST38h: i'm sure it will fall when china starts dumping dollars :)15:59
*** kabtoffe has joined #maemo15:59
RST38hMacer: Which means China can't start dumping dollars.15:59
asj_wrkno no the USD should fall like crazy, I'm about to leave the US and still have a mortage in USD ;)15:59
usirimpossible with the human capitol in USA now rst15:59
RST38husir: what? can't work at assembly lines?16:00
usircan not build much high tech with them.  capitol investments can not zoeld high productivity16:00
RST38hor have you meant something else?16:00
*** lmoura_ has joined #maemo16:00
usirno, high eff. requires flexi workers.  yes, usa can still do poor quality assembly line work16:00
*** fiferboy has joined #maemo16:01
Macerthat's rough16:01
RST38hApple pulls iPhone C=64 from its store AGAIN!16:01
Macerusir: the global economy ;)16:01
RST38hThey have found that you can still program in C=64 BASIC inside the emulator and THEORETICALLY use it to break iPhone16:01
usirheh nice16:02
* RST38h facepalms16:02
MacerRST38h: wow they sure are hellbent on preventing it huh?16:02
Maceris it that serious? :)16:02
RST38hPreventing what? :)16:02
asj_wrkthe terms and conditions of the SDK says no 3rd party programming languages or something like that16:02
RST38hI mean, who in their right mind would come up with this scenario, BASIC running on artificial hardware and all?16:03
SpeedEvilUnless there is a C64 app store16:03
MacerSpeedEvil: hahaha16:03
SpeedEvilThen you can upload your own c64 asm app16:03
SpeedEvilto the emulator16:03
SpeedEvilso basic doesn't matter16:03
usiri hope the initial responses on n900 are good enough to warrant future cheaper models soon16:03
RST38husir: Q1. Fremantle based.16:03
RST38huser: Harmattan in Q3/Q4.16:04
Macerwhat is the cost in $ for an n900?16:04
SpeedEvilI hope the initial responses on the n900 are for many chinese vendors to start shipping phones.16:04
RST38hApparent model numbers are RX-71 and RX-5616:04
asj_wrkSpeedEvil: you maybe only able to get apps through the c64 emulator vendor, or so I'm guessing16:04
Maceri remmber the nokiaworld brief was in euros16:04
SpeedEvilMaceR: $699?16:04
usirthank you16:04
Macernot too bad if it can deliver :)16:04
SpeedEvilyeah - that sounds right16:04
AStormusir: I don't know how can it be made any cheaper except by cutting features16:04
* Macer is reminded of the e9016:05
jaskas60 on a communicator :(16:05
usirover time perhaps astorm16:05
Macerjaska: heh yeah16:05
RST38hAStorm: subtract keyboard, FM chip, GSM chip16:05
RST38hAStorm: cut mmc1 to 8GB16:05
*** jofjdi has quit IRC16:05
*** Luke-Jr2 has quit IRC16:05
RST38hAStorm: cut camera to 3mpx16:06
Maceryeah, but then you'd have the poor man's N90016:06
AStormRST38h: and you'll end up with a useless junk phone? ;)16:06
Macerlike a 6cyl mustang16:06
RST38hNo, it will be LIGHT, every man's N90016:06
Komzpacut processor, ram and get n800 :)16:06
AStormexcept it will be 1/3 as usable16:06
RST38hAStorm: No, as all the software will still be running16:06
MacerRST38h: like i said. the poor man's :)16:06
SpeedEvilcut mmc1 to 016:06
usiri suspect rst has a good plan16:06
RST38hAStorm: Yes it will cut down on some usage scenarios, but it won't be that bad. See cheaper version of 580016:06
Macer$700 for a phone that has as much power as a slower computer? i think it's worth it16:07
*** The_Tall1 has quit IRC16:07
asj_wrkrst is right, look at the 5320 or 5230 what ever it is, cheap at dirt 580016:07
Macerbut maemo will have to be amazing16:07
SpeedEvilPersonally - cut mmc1 to 0 - add two SD slots - 640*480 4" or so display, lose the small camera, ...16:07
RST38hAStorm: To see Nokia having done it before, check out 7650/3650 and N95/following phones16:07
RST38hAStorm: Also look at 5800/5320, as asj says16:07
MacerSpeedEvil: it has 2 cams?16:08
RST38hAStorm: You will easily see the pattern16:08
SpeedEvilMaceR: yes16:08
asj_wrka more interesting question though is, would you want to do that? if Maemo is the high end fancy device do you want to create a neutered version of it? That can kill a market since people tend to buy something cheap first they may get a bad taste for it.16:08
Macerif it has the 2 cam thing going on like the n9516:08
Macerwow it would be awesome if i could use google video on it to see my son16:09
RST38hasj: it will actually extend the market16:09
usirgoogle video does video chat?16:09
RST38hasj: again, see how it turned out on previous turns16:09
Macerusir: yeah16:09
asj_wrkRST38h: only if it's a truely good device on it's own though16:09
Macerbrowser plugin now only i believe16:09
SpeedEvilasj_wrk: I don't personally care if it has the nokia badge16:09
Maceri've used it. works well16:09
RST38hasj: Nokia throws expensive kitchen sink at early adopters/fans. Nokia watches carefully how that kitchen sink is being used. Nokia comes up with several mass-market devices that implement viable usage scenarios observed in step #216:10
*** tiagofalcao[AWAY is now known as tiagofalcao16:10
asj_wrklol, now that's what I want, Ad block pro on my mobile browser :)16:10
RST38hasj: It will be a truly good device, at least when compared to S6016:10
asj_wrkRST38h: gotcha16:10
SpeedEvilasj_wrk: I have no objection to nokia 'winning' - but if a chinese vendor sticks something nice out at half the price...16:10
AStormMacer: $700 for a phone that has more power than eeePC16:10
usiranytime i see browser + high perfomance app (videoy) i want to puke blood16:10
*** Meizirkki has joined #maemo16:10
MacerAStorm: and probably lasts just as long on a single charge?16:10
SpeedEvilusir: No - think positive!16:10
SpeedEvilusir: make them puke blood!16:10
Macerprobably longer16:10
AStormyes longer, especially when idle16:11
tigerthow long do eepc's go?16:11
SpeedEviltigert: 4h or so16:11
Macerwell. i was thinking "in use"16:11
tigertthe problem is, the more fun the device is, the less it is idle :P16:11
SpeedEviltigert: lots more if you suspend16:11
Stskeepsone day after company registration in .pl i already get spam16:11
AStormsuspend can be done on n900 as well... if it's not already there16:11
MacerStskeeps: hahaha!16:11
Stskeepsand mail spam16:12
AStormStskeeps: .pl spam?16:12
Stskeepswritten with address in hand16:12
AStormyeah :P16:12
AStormthose databases are almost transparent16:12
MacerStskeeps: well. whatever you do don't give your bank acct # for your distant Nigerian price relative who left you in his will16:13
Stskeepsi'm warsaw based now so :P16:13
dottedmagcontact information of companies is public information, isn't it?16:13
asj_wrkRST38h: well, I had a lot of hope for the N97, but s60v5 is such a mess, especially when programming for it.  Symbian C++ feels like I backed up 10+ years, and capabilities just make it worse. It's sad.16:13
Stskeepsstill, that was quick16:13
*** usir is now known as usul16:13
*** m3kyd has joined #maemo16:14
Macerwell. time for me to unwind16:14
*** fnordianslipeee has joined #maemo16:15
*** renato has joined #maemo16:15
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC16:20
AStormStskeeps: hiring? ;>16:21
m3kydgimmie an n90016:21
AStormm3kyd: buy one.16:21
*** usul has quit IRC16:21
StskeepsAStorm: one man company but one of my purposes is actually mobile development..16:21
m3kyd$650 and only in october!16:22
Stskeepssubsub atm16:22
Stskeepsright, back to hacking16:22
*** amaurymedeiros has joined #maemo16:22
ccookeI think I'm being a moron. Can someone point me at the latest fremantle API docs? I can't seem to find anything more recent than a few months ago16:24
RST38hasj: I still can't figure out how to do working settings lists on 580016:24
RST38hasj: and the direct screen access crashes when I rotate the damn thing16:24
RST38hasj: on the other hand, user experience is fine as far as I am concerned16:25
fiferboylcuk: ping?16:25
lcukyes fiferboy16:26
*** MaceN8x0 has quit IRC16:26
fiferboyI've pushed an app to extras-devel, but I need someone to run it on a device...16:26
*** brolin_ has joined #maemo16:27
*** lmoura_ has quit IRC16:28
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo16:28
lcukfiferboy, unfortunately now isnt the time16:28
lcuki would normally be happy to16:28
fiferboylcuk: Yeah, I wasn't sure if you would be able too16:28
*** brolin_ has quit IRC16:28
fiferboyI imagine you need your N900 in a pretty stable state right now16:28
lcukits not that16:29
lcukim still coding16:29
*** jofjdi has joined #maemo16:29
lcukliqbase is crashing left right and centre16:29
lcukbut im just gonna have to make do :)16:29
lcukthe onedotzero app is solid tho16:29
*** etrunko has joined #maemo16:29
lcukand in their testing they havent mentioned anything16:29
*** _marcell_ has quit IRC16:29
fiferboyDoes anyone with an N900 want to test a new app?16:30
lcukhow about you testing liqbase-playground on your 810 for me16:30
lcukand when i have 5 mins ill test yours16:30
vesafiferboy: what kind?16:30
fiferboyvesa: A desktop applet16:31
*** Meizirkki has joined #maemo16:31
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s16:31
fiferboylcuk: The version in extras-devel?16:31
lcukgot updated last night16:31
lcukmight even have an icon now16:31
fiferboyvesa: It is called countdown-home, it allows you to display the time remaining (or passed) to different important dates you might have16:31
vesafiferboy: you got a link somewhere? i haven't had much time to look at the device yet but i can ask how to install =)16:32
*** frade has quit IRC16:32
lcuklol fiferboy16:33
lcukmake a liq* version :P16:33
lcukit would be simple16:33
fiferboyvesa: It is in extras-devel, so as long as you have that repo you can get it through the app manager16:33
fiferboylcuk: Can liq* do desktop applets?16:33
lcukall liq* stuff are applets16:33
lcukfrom full apps to silly screens16:33
lcukeverything is a plugin16:33
fiferboylcuk: Ah, yes16:34
lcukwhen i compile them i produce 2 binaries16:34
fiferboylcuk: I'm install playground on my n810 now16:34
lcuk:D kewl16:34
lcukit would be good to see how much i still respect optimal running :)16:35
lcukfiferboy, when you get an n900 you will be blown away16:35
fiferboylcuk: I'll try to be brutally honest16:35
lcuktheres so much cpu available16:35
lcukoh gawd16:35
fiferboylcuk: IF I get a N900...16:35
fiferboylcuk: dev program would likely be my only shot for a new device in the next few years16:36
vesafiferboy: ooh, not too bad the ui here. i got the repo showing with no help. although it's now stuck on 'checking for updates, please wait'16:36
timeless_mbpfiferboy: i can try16:36
fiferboytimeless_mbp: That would be fantastic16:37
* lcuk laughs16:37
timeless_mbpfiferboy: please remember that you should provide a pretty name and an icon for your deb :)16:37
fiferboytimeless_mbp: If you could, could you send me a screen shot?  I want to know what it looks like without the graphical glitches in scratchbox...16:37
fiferboytimeless_mbp: That will be in the next version :)16:37
*** bergie has quit IRC16:39
timeless_mbpso, the widget title is too wide, it effectively doesn't fit into the box16:39
timeless_mbpi'd suggest "Countdown"16:39
vesafiferboy: whats the app called?16:40
timeless_mbpand make sure there's padding16:40
fiferboyvesa: countdown-home16:40
vesaah, right. i'm blind =)16:40
timeless_mbpfiferboy: also16:40
timeless_mbpyou're not really doing things the way we want them done16:40
*** murrayc has quit IRC16:40
fiferboytimeless_mbp: Ok...16:40
timeless_mbpyou're supposed to plug into this other thing16:40
timeless_mbpdon't ask me how16:40
vesafiferboy: screenshot utility, you know of one?16:41
fiferboytimeless_mbp: What is the other thing?  Something that unifies the desktop?16:41
fiferboyvesa: I don't, unfortunately :|16:41
fiferboylcuk: The liqbase icon show up!16:42
lcukthats qwerty magic16:42
esaym153is there an sshd package that makes it easy to start and stop sshd?16:42
esaym153I don't want it running all the time16:43
timeless_mbpesaym153: no :)16:43
fiferboylcuk: I saw the "thanks to qwerty :)" banner on install16:43
lcukfiferboy, his name is littered around16:43
timeless_mbpesaym153: it'd be fairly easy to write a control panel or widget to do that16:43
lcukhis knowledge of all things linux is immense and he has the hacker spirit :)16:43
timeless_mbpthere might even be a more generic one for managing services16:43
lcuk(and when he reads this he will smile and blush)16:44
esaym153will having sshd running all the time reduce battery life?16:44
*** MaceN8x0 has joined #maemo16:44
timeless_mbpnot significantly16:44
fiferboylcuk: Is there a way to make liqbase run full-screen?16:44
lcukadd fullscreen=116:45
lcuki wanted windowed mode for a video i was making16:45
lcukbut its a bit buggy16:45
lcukand aspect ratio of strokes is a bit off16:45
fiferboylcuk: That was going to be my next comment :)16:45
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo16:46
esaym153timeless_mbp: to make a script start sshd it would have to be root right?16:46
asj_wrkRST38h: well, if you could the double click/single click as incredibly annoying user experiance I think that alone is enough to drive anyone up the wall16:46
timeless_mbpyou mean suid?16:46
* timeless_mbp shrugs16:46
timeless_mbpdepends on how those scripts work16:46
lcukesaym153, or you could add to sudoers16:46
vesafiferboy: it shows on the desktop. that's about how much it works =P16:46
fiferboylcuk: Drawing and scrolling look as smooth as ever16:47
fiferboyvesa: You can't configure it, or add events?16:47
*** rsalveti has quit IRC16:47
infobotasj_wrk meant: RST38h: well, if you count the double click/single click as incredibly annoying user experiance I think that alone is enough to drive anyone up the wall16:47
vesafiferboy: oh sorry, my date is all off on the device =P16:47
asj_wrklol that's cute16:47
lcukon the playground16:47
lcuktype "flow"16:47
*** ab_ is now known as ab16:47
lcukand open up liqflow :)16:47
vesafiferboy: you can add dates, add the title and they show up16:47
esaym153lcuk: by that you mean I would have to define the program location in sudoers right? I think I remember doing something like that before...16:47
vesafiferboy: the background is full black though, not seethrough16:48
lcukesaym153, im not a linux guy but yeah i think so16:48
fiferboyvesa: Thanks, that was one of the things I was wondering about16:48
fiferboylcuk: SWEET!16:48
lcukdid you draw on it16:49
fiferboylcuk: You bet I did!16:49
vesafiferboy: the countdown time does seem to be correct =)16:49
lcukwith the accelerometer it also falls16:49
lcukalways to the ground16:49
fiferboyvesa: Something encouraging!16:49
lcukno matter what orientation16:49
fiferboylcuk: I got it swirling in a sweet circle16:49
lcukyeah its like a blackhole16:49
fiferboylcuk: I might leave my tablet like this until the battery dies!16:49
lcukwith the accelerometer the interactions are even more sweet because it introduces randomness16:50
*** amit_usual has joined #maemo16:50
lcuki do16:50
fiferboyvesa: Do the dialogs look correct?16:50
vesafiferboy: removing a date, makes the widget size stay as before16:50
vesaie. it doesn't resize to being smaller16:50
fiferboyvesa: Yes, I have to fix that.  thanks16:50
vesafiferboy: yeah, they look right16:50
esaym153ok so now, should I used the dropbear sshd or the openssh sshd?16:50
fiferboyvesa: What about adding more than three events?16:50
* timeless_mbp pokes fiferboy 16:51
msh_esaym153: dropbear, of course :)16:51
msh_(I may be biased)16:51
fiferboytimeless_mbp: Yes?16:51
esaym153yea I am thinking dropbear too16:51
timeless_mbpsee /query16:51
timeless_mbpi gave you a bunch of bits of feedback16:51
vesafiferboy: you get big buttons to the right for scrolling16:51
vesapassed events work too =)16:52
msh_esaym153: actually not sure there'll be that much diff in size. though depends how crammed the device is16:52
*** stemosco has joined #maemo16:52
timeless_mbpfiferboy: i wouldn't use "passed", you might use "overdue"16:53
timeless_mbpor "ago"16:53
timeless_mbpdepending on your goal16:53
esaym153does the dropbear ssh client have scp?16:54
*** joelmaher has joined #maemo16:54
esaym153or is that just an openssh thing?16:54
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC16:55
*** amit_dusual has joined #maemo16:55
* mgedmin always used openssh on his tablets because he was afraid there *might* be features missing in dropbear16:56
*** tiagofalcao is now known as tiagofalcao[AWAY16:56
timeless_mbpfiferboy: "Refresh*" ... "*requires restart to take effect"16:56
timeless_mbprestarting *what* ?16:56
timeless_mbpalso, "Countdown Global Settings"...16:56
timeless_mbpI'd probably write "Global Countdown Settings"16:56
timeless_mbp(don't ask me why)16:57
RST38hWhat is the point in using dropbear anyway>16:57
fiferboytimeless_mbp: Actually, it doesn't require a restart any more, I'll have to change that line16:57
timeless_mbppersonally, i'd also change it to something like:16:57
timeless_mbpUpdate Every [ 1 minute ]16:58
timeless_mbpwhere the time is part of the number16:58
timeless_mbpand you have no label in the widget16:58
esaym153RST38h: I think it is just smaller, hopefully it will use less cpu cycles when transfering too...16:58
timeless_mbpusing shrunken text is mostly annoying16:58
*** usul has joined #maemo16:58
timeless_mbpalso, please kill the accelerators on "OK"16:58
*** mardi__ has joined #maemo16:58
timeless_mbpthey're an eyesore :)16:58
*** GiantTalkingCow has joined #maemo16:59
fiferboytimeless_mbp: Gotcha, thanks16:59
timeless_mbpyou crashed hildon-home16:59
timeless_mbpi think16:59
*** amit_usual has quit IRC16:59
fiferboytimeless_mbp: On remove?17:00
usulthere times when i could be presented with a team of professional ladies in a state of undress, and i would easily prefer playing javispedro's DrNokSnes Super Nintendo emulator17:00
timeless_mbpperhaps you didn't kill your timer before you removed your widget17:00
timeless_mbpfiferboy: if you want someone to grovel for a stack trace, that could be arranged17:00
timeless_mbpbut i'd sooner do something else :)17:00
timeless_mbpthat'd mean something to someone @nokia17:01
timeless_mbpyour description has too many hard line wraps17:02
*** amit_dusual is now known as amit_usual17:02
timeless_mbpand your category is bad :)17:02
fiferboytimeless_mbp: I do a "g_source_remove" on the timer id, but it might be coming too late17:02
* timeless_mbp shrugs17:02
fiferboytimeless_mbp: I do it on the hitem destroy dignal17:02
timeless_mbpif you want to find out, ask sp3000 or someone to look up the stack :)17:03
fiferboytimeless_mbp: Thanks.  Also, do we not need to hard wrap the description for the app manager?17:03
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo17:03
*** calvaris has quit IRC17:03
timeless_mbpham should be responsible for dealing w/ line wrapping in the long description field, i think17:03
*** GiantTalkingCow has quit IRC17:03
timeless_mbpi'll let someone correct me if i'm terribly wrong17:04
*** rapadura_man has joined #maemo17:04
timeless_mbpi think debian says that your description lines should be ~78 chars long17:04
timeless_mbpso yes you should wrap, but nowhere near where you're doing it17:04
timeless_mbpand someone should remind me to shoot ham for using such a small font17:04
timeless_mbprootsh's description is slightly better than yours17:05
timeless_mbpfor now, assume it's doing things properly17:05
timeless_mbpand follow its example17:05
*** dneary has quit IRC17:05
*** fab has quit IRC17:05
fiferboytimeless_mbp: Thanks17:06
* timeless_mbp bangs head17:06
timeless_mbpsomeone should probably tell the getting starting wizard people that their debian description is visible17:07
timeless_mbp... and that the n900 is not an internet tablet ...17:07
timeless_mbpsp3000: hey, Belfast just made BBC :)17:08
*** naba2 has quit IRC17:08
timeless_mbpanyone here familiar w/ the package promotion ui?17:08
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo17:09
timeless_mbpoh, there was a couple hundred pound explosive somewhere nearby17:10
timeless_mbpwhich they defused17:10
ShadowJKtimeless, do people in suits and dark shades come and stare at you and "educate" you it's a "mobile computer"? :)17:10
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo17:10
timeless_mbpthat clearly don't do a very good job17:10
fiferboysp3000: timeless_mbp mentioned that you may be able to look up a stck trace for me?17:11
fiferboysp3000: hildon-home-6C3E-11-1079.rcore.lzo17:11
Jaffatimeless_mbp: fiferboy: Debian packaging standard says that lines should be wrapped in the Description: field in debian/control. There's a HAM bug where it does its own wrapping on top, without unwrapping the field first.17:11
sp3000a bit later17:11
timeless_mbpJaffa: glory17:11
fiferboysp3000: Thanks!17:11
* sp3000 heads out for a run, hopes it doesn't rain too much17:11
timeless_mbpsince the owner of the tutorial didn't get the memo17:11
fiferboyJaffa: Good to know17:11
fiferboylbt: ping?17:12
Jaffatimeless_mbp: fiferboy:
lcukJaffa, if people are worried about travel to summit17:12
*** lopz has joined #maemo17:12
lcuki think im just about to get a ticket now to go to london17:12
lcukleaving in about 2 hours17:12
Jaffalcuk: I'll wave as my train goes past you in the opposite direction at about 18:45 ;-)17:12
lcukits gonna be manic tho17:13
lcukrushhour out of manchester..17:13
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: You mean that you *willingly* go up north? :)17:13
lcuki suppose it is worse for you lol17:13
*** danilocesar has joined #maemo17:14
timeless_mbpanyone know the author of "belltower" ?17:14
*** blassey has quit IRC17:14
lbtfiferboy: pong17:14
*** tiagofalcao[AWAY is now known as tiagofalcao17:14
fiferboylbt: I know you have been busy, but have you looked at my finger scroll changes?17:15
*** rapadura_man has quit IRC17:15
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: Only every day when I'm going home ;-p17:15
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: London sucks17:15
lbt"Fix for the "Infinite Oscillation" bug in finger scrolling"17:16
*** jnettlet has joined #maemo17:16
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: Lies... there's a reason why I'm not up north anymore :p17:16
fiferboylbt: In my clone I have a "fs-exp" branch that fixes a bunch of bugs and makes the overshoot a bit more logical17:16
lbtah... url?17:17
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I don't know him but he seems to be on some IRC channels with the nick of "marnanel"17:17
fiferboylbt: It kind of seemed to me that overshoot was smoother on my N810, but it could have been complete placebo17:17
lbtfiferboy: I just started on this again over the last day or so17:17
lbtyou probably saw on the list17:17
fiferboylbt: Yes.17:17
* lbt hates gcc and co17:17
fiferboylbt: It looks like Antonio has some nice changes coming up for fremantle17:17
fiferboylbt: The lack of hildon-stackable-window was very noticable in my application17:18
timeless_mbpJaffa: so how exactly does this promotion stuff work?17:18
timeless_mbpi keep trying to click on a thumb, and it feels like nothing happens17:19
lbtfiferboy: yes, I'm rebuilding shopper too and it looks/feels good17:19
lbtthe current scroll is working really well on Diablo too17:19
lbtand I have merged Gesture support into it too17:19
fiferboylbt: The parentless dialog thing is a bit annoying in some cases17:19
fiferboylbt: Gesture support into the finger scrolling patches?17:20
lbtso you can select/delete using a stroke and the like17:20
lbtsorry, not into17:20
lbtalongside - compatible17:20
lbtphone - back in a bit17:20
Stskeepsmm, anyone know any good tools to diff two .c files which has been indented in different ways?17:21
* timeless_mbp wonders how transmission got negative karma17:21
timeless_mbpdiff -w ?17:21
Stskeepshmm, maybe17:22
thpStskeeps: run the tool 'indent' on both and then diff normally?17:22
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: easily... that build sucks17:22
*** avs has quit IRC17:22
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: that seems to have done the trick, ta17:22
RST38h"Windows 7 reintroduces remoted BSOD"17:23
Jaffatimeless_mbp: It's possible that the thumbs on the promotion page suffer from the same "don't give any feedback until the AJAX call completes" problem as /news/17:23
*** etrunko has quit IRC17:23
*** mandara has joined #maemo17:28
*** mardi__1 has joined #maemo17:31
*** mardi__ has quit IRC17:33
*** mardi__1 has quit IRC17:36
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC17:36
*** mardi__ has joined #maemo17:37
*** murrayc has joined #maemo17:39
*** Mousey has quit IRC17:39
*** usul has quit IRC17:40
timeless_mbpJaffa: sounds right17:41
Jaffa~seen X-Fade17:47
infobotx-fade is currently on #maemo (18h 17m 54s), last said: 'timeless_mbp: Walk over to Ed.'.17:48
timeless_mbpfwiw, i couldn't find ed17:48
timeless_mbpi found his office, but it was empty17:48
*** tbf is now known as tbf|afk17:48
* Jaffa wonders where X-Fade is: can't send out the summit approvals cos of a 500 server error :(17:48
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: I smell a conspiracy...17:49
VDVsxme too ;)17:49
Stskeepsthey took the sponsorship budget and went on a trip around the world? ;)17:50
*** GiantTalkingCow has joined #maemo17:50
*** tote has joined #maemo17:51
VDVsxStskeeps, not a bad idea ;)17:51
RST38hSts: Do not give 'em any wrong ideas =)17:52
*** zap has quit IRC17:53
*** victorpoluceno has joined #maemo17:54
*** briglia has joined #maemo17:55
*** ab is now known as ab[out]17:57
*** GiantTalkingCow has quit IRC17:58
lardmanserver error because the signal's not too strong on the average deserted tropical island beach?17:58
*** mardi__ has quit IRC17:59
*** javispedro has joined #maemo18:00
lcukis there a version of xchat for fremantle18:01
lcukhi javispedro18:01
Jaffalardman: N900 manufacturing defect ;-)18:01
* lcuk shits bricks18:01
javispedroohmy, #maemo logs are broken again18:01
GeneralAntilleslcuk, think there's a Diablo version in Extras you can use.18:02
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo18:02
*** caotic has joined #maemo18:03
lcukthanks gen18:03
*** frade has joined #maemo18:03
*** zimmerle has joined #maemo18:03
*** usul has joined #maemo18:04
*** vivijim has joined #maemo18:04
mgedminwhat, somebody broke the logs again?18:06
*** skibur has joined #maemo18:07
mgedminpovbot: are you there?18:07
povbotmgedmin: Error: "are" is not a valid command.18:07
mgedminjavispedro: please state your complaint about #maemo logs a bit more clearly18:07
javispedromgedmin: ah, sorry. Today's log is not there.18:08
mgedminthe logging bot was down half last week due to an unfortunate server misconfiguration problem18:08
javispedroThere being
mgedminhmm... you're right18:08
mgedminlooks like the log -> html cron script is not working18:08
* mgedmin investigates18:08
*** Vulc|Laptop has joined #maemo18:09
*** etrunko has joined #maemo18:11
mgedminthere, all fixed18:12
mgedminjavispedro: thanks for the heads up!18:12
javispedrono, thanks to you for the service :)18:13
*** qwerty12_N810 has quit IRC18:15
*** qwerty12_N810 has joined #maemo18:15
*** jofjdi has quit IRC18:16
*** fernand0_ has joined #maemo18:17
*** __t has quit IRC18:20
*** fernand0 has quit IRC18:23
*** jofjdi has joined #maemo18:23
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]18:30
*** tiagofalcao is now known as tiagofalcao[AWAY18:31
*** pH5 has joined #maemo18:31
*** Federico2 has joined #maemo18:33
*** filip42 has joined #maemo18:33
*** Wooly has joined #maemo18:34
Woolylardman: ping18:34
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo18:35
*** Luke-Jr2 has joined #maemo18:35
*** filip42 has left #maemo18:35
*** ignacius has quit IRC18:37
*** Wooly has quit IRC18:38
*** brolin_ has joined #maemo18:38
*** murrayc has quit IRC18:40
*** DarwinSurvivor has quit IRC18:41
*** fab has joined #maemo18:41
*** amit_usual has quit IRC18:42
*** stemosco has quit IRC18:42
*** thopiekar has quit IRC18:44
*** javispedro has quit IRC18:44
*** mlpug has joined #maemo18:45
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo18:46
*** trofi has joined #maemo18:47
*** AltC has quit IRC18:47
*** geaaru has quit IRC18:52
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC18:52
*** GiantTalkingCow has joined #maemo18:53
*** VDVsx has quit IRC18:54
*** surfer007 has joined #maemo18:54
*** surfer007 has left #maemo18:56
*** ziyourenxiang has quit IRC18:56
*** Luke-Jr2 has quit IRC18:57
*** zap has joined #maemo19:00
*** Sargun has quit IRC19:00
*** frals has joined #maemo19:01
*** trickie has quit IRC19:03
*** GiantTalkingCow has quit IRC19:03
lardmandamn, missed him again19:03
*** Vulc|Laptop has quit IRC19:04
*** gaspa has left #maemo19:05
*** calvaris has joined #maemo19:06
*** skibur has quit IRC19:06
*** simula has joined #maemo19:07
* GeneralAntilles waits impatiently for a phone call.19:08
*** zz_jhford is now known as jhford19:09
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo19:10
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo19:11
* lardman wills people to phone GeneralAntilles19:11
lcuktracy is driving to london on sunday morning, could one of you guys help her to reflash tablet when she asks19:11
qwerty12_N810lardman: do one better: ring GeneralAntilles yourself ;)19:11
* lardman hopes this tablet is not the vital link in the Sat presentation.....19:11
lardmanqwerty12_N810: yeah, was just Googling the likely sites to find his number ;)19:12
* qwerty12_N810 ducks19:12
*** ssvb has quit IRC19:12
lardmanqwerty12_N810: I was thinking more the list you made from the London phonebox adverts19:12
lardmanthough they may not exist any more :)19:13
qwerty12_N810Stop dashing my hopes like that :(19:13
lardmanI had a friend who covered his wall at school with ads he'd taken down from phoneboxes, became a challenge to cover every square inch19:14
*** beavis has quit IRC19:14
thpX-Fade: here?19:15
*** jmc93739653 has joined #maemo19:16
*** krutt has joined #maemo19:17
lardman~curse residues19:18
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, residues !19:18
*** jukey has quit IRC19:18
lardmanhmm, that may sound bad, I'm thinking of loop phase residues of course19:18
*** simula has quit IRC19:19
*** thopiekar has quit IRC19:20
*** fnordianslipeee has quit IRC19:21
*** eichi__ has quit IRC19:22
*** simula has joined #maemo19:23
*** etrunko has quit IRC19:24
GAN800lardman, Apple Customer Relations rep specifically. ;)19:27
*** stv0 has joined #maemo19:27
*** stv0 has left #maemo19:28
*** Wooly has joined #maemo19:28
Woolylardman: ping19:28
*** GAN8001 has joined #maemo19:28
*** t_s_o has quit IRC19:29
lardmanWooly: hi19:32
lardmandid you get my email?19:32
lardmanprobably not :)19:32
WoolyI did not, what email address did you send it to?19:32
lardmanThe computer you logged in from19:32
lardmanprobably some sysadmin at Strathclyde wondering who Wooly and lardman are :)19:33
Woolymore than likely :D19:33
lardmanI was just wondering if you had those batoo Python bindings handy?19:33
Woolyfor future reference :D19:33
WoolyI will do, in around a half hour?19:33
WoolyI'm still in work, but heading home asap19:33
Woolyoh no, wait.  I've got my laptop in with me19:33
Woolyshould be able to forward them on now19:34
lardmanyeah no rush, in fact I may go another route now anyway, but might be useful19:34
Woolywhat's the other route?19:34
lardmanwell zbar 0.8 (which has derf's QR support) has too many false positives, so until 0.9 gains QR support I thought I'd combine derf's QR, the batoo for EAN 1D and libdmtx with a little C wrapper, then wrap that with Python19:35
*** murrayc has joined #maemo19:35
Woolyunfortunately, I've not had the chance to actually test these batoo bindings19:35
Woolywhat is it you need, as I've forgotten what I actually did :D19:35
lardmanoh just the bindings if you've got them, so I can see how they are done19:36
lardmanor did you use SWIG?19:36
WoolyI used SWIG19:37
lardmanah ok, well no worries then, I may as well use that too as my interface will be different19:37
Woolythey're not on my laptop unfortunately, but I know where they are, on scratchbox at hom19:37
Woolythat's fine19:38
Woolyhome time, I'll forward the stuff I have on anyway if you pass on an email address :)19:38
lardmans dot g dot pickering at bath dot ac dot uk19:38
Woolyoh yeah I forgot you were at bath19:39
Woolywhat department are you in again?19:39
lardmanus academics hey :)19:39
lardmanmech eng19:39
Myrttisoup ♥19:39
Woolyahh cool :)19:39
Woolyi know a few of the folks from cs through working on this PhD19:39
lardmanI'm afraid I don't, through and through engineer :)19:40
Woolyalright, it's TODO'd19:41
WoolyI'll forward them on when I'm in from work19:41
lardmanthanks! bye19:41
*** Wooly has quit IRC19:41
*** florian has quit IRC19:44
*** frade has quit IRC19:45
*** fnordianslipeee has joined #maemo19:47
* ccooke considers... As an interested user, is there any point going to the Maemo summit?19:49
*** hannesw has quit IRC19:49
ccookeIt looks like I have (tons of) holiday left this year, so it's quite doable.19:49
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC19:51
*** Sho_ has quit IRC19:52
*** mojocafe has joined #maemo19:52
mojocafehi everyone :)19:52
mojocafei am searching for someone with a n810 to test out the new mojocafe mojos... anyone willing to ?19:52
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo19:53
Jaffaccooke: Yes. There's a track dedicated to users. There's a party. There'll be lots of geeks and you can feel superior with non-geeky inter-personal skills?19:54
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC19:56
*** tiagofalcao[AWAY is now known as tiagofalcao19:56
mojocafehey tiago... portugal ?19:56
rmtccooke, Of course there's a point - it's in Amsterdam!!19:57
rmtccooke, Grab a joint and a beer (preferably belgian) and enjoy!19:57
mojocafermt: lol19:58
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo19:58
mojocafermt: you own an n810 ?19:58
rmtmojocafe, I own an N810.19:58
mojocafermt: would you like to test something out for me 1?19:58
sp3000fiferboy: so the stacktrace doesn't say too much because it dies where it has no symbols19:59
fiferboysp3000: Thanks for looking into it.  I think I have found the problem, I'm just testing it now19:59
sp3000Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. #0  0x40af8dcc in ?? () from /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/ #1  0x41174dd8 in pthread_setspecific () from /lib/ #2  0x00000000 in ?? ()19:59
mojocafermt: i just want to know if the flash lite version of the mojocafe works on the n81019:59
fiferboysp3000: For the record, I was removing my timer too late, I was trying to do it after the object was already destroyed...19:59
fiferboyYup, just tested it and it is working now.20:00
fiferboysp3000: Thanks for checking for me20:00
mojocafermt: no time ? shall i ask someone else ?20:01
rmtmojocafe, Little pushed today..20:01
mojocafermt: aight no problem. thanks.20:01
rmtIs it just a URL?20:01
*** brolin_ has quit IRC20:02
mojocafeand then enter 30-pcww as code ....20:03
*** alehorst has joined #maemo20:03
*** jofjdi has quit IRC20:04
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s20:04
rmtReally wish the 810 had more memory20:04
* rmt is waiting for things to swap in & out.20:06
*** alexga has quit IRC20:06
*** mairas has joined #maemo20:06
*** caotic has quit IRC20:08
*** xnt14 has joined #maemo20:09
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC20:10
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo20:10
mojocafermt_ do you mean that it does not work ?20:11
*** caotic has joined #maemo20:11
*** hexa-- has quit IRC20:12
*** hexa-- has joined #maemo20:12
*** tbf|afk is now known as tbf20:14
*** Free_maN has quit IRC20:14
*** tote has quit IRC20:20
Myrttimy irc is broken - nobody says a thing20:21
wazdyeah, mine too20:21
rmtNot mine.20:21
SpeedEvilmy irc is broken - nobody says a thing20:22
JaffaMy IRC's cool, it blots out my password: *********20:22
wazdo really? Let me try! ihatejaffa20:23
JaffaHey, that's my password - and it wasn't blanked out here20:23
wazdJaffa: oops :)20:23
ccookeJaffa: (just back after a meeting, so reading backlog): Yeah right. I'm a sysadmin. Non-geeky personal skills aren't an option ;-)20:24
Jaffaccooke: Ah, BOFHs are even worse than devs ;-)20:24
JaffaAnyway, more the merrier20:24
ccookeNaturally. I mean, devs aren't encouraged to believe that they can take over the world.20:25
Myrttiraspberry tea ♥20:25
ccookeI'm a user of the Nokias because... well... I'm a sysadmin. The coding I do is backend stuff: Elegance happens only in structures, not in interfaces20:25
ccookeAnd that's not the sort of thing that's needed much :-)20:26
*** sergio has quit IRC20:28
* RST38h moos20:29
RST38hMyrtti: blackberry tastes better20:29
ccookeI had some quince tea a while back - that was lovely20:30
ccooke(but that was black-tea-with-quince; possibly not what you're referring to :-)20:30
MyrttiRST38h: all tea is lovely, lovely is all tea20:30
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo20:31
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo20:31
wazd"Elegance happens only in structures, not in interfaces" - that's why 80% of OSS software looks like crap I suppose :D20:33
RST38hmaking good interface is difficult and does not bring you lulz20:34
*** murrayc has quit IRC20:34
RST38hBut both Gnome and KDE feature relatively good UIs, so I do not see why you only count them as 20% =)20:34
*** jmc93739653 has quit IRC20:34
wazdelegant interface = good structure20:34
*** eichi__ has joined #maemo20:35
wazdRST38h: Gnome/KDE is like hildon20:35
asj_wrkindividual applications within gnome/kde have varying levels of UI success20:35
ccookewazd: You're right, but in this case I'm referring to UI (not API/etc, if you meant that too :-)20:36
wazdRST38h: it's nice, until someone tries to make something with it :)20:36
ccookewazd: A large part of the problems with OSS UIs is people thinking they're good at UI development when they're not. I prefer to admit upfront that I'm not good at it :-)20:36
*** elninja has quit IRC20:36
* ShadowJK 's UI consists of a series of scripts20:37
asj_wrkccooke: I'm not sure that's true, all OSS I write is to solve some missing app.  I'm not good at UI and I know it, but unless someone who's good at UI cares it'll never get touched.20:37
*** jrocha has quit IRC20:38
RST38hwazd: both are quite harmless api-wise20:38
ccookeasj_wrk: oh, sure. I'm definitely not saying that everyone who codes a UI is bad at it - just that I've seen many who *think* they are and *aren't820:38
RST38hwazd: You want evil, try Motif or tk/tcl20:38
*** hexa-- has quit IRC20:38
ShadowJKrst38h: as a user I like. fast smooth and light20:39
ccookeasj_wrk: (I'll also code UIs for things... and wish that I were good at it. It's always a problem)20:39
wazdRST38h: I don't want evil, nono :D20:39
*** Luke-Jr2 has joined #maemo20:40
asj_wrkccooke: people also complain a lot about UI on OSS, but sadly a lot of small company commerical software has huge UI issues too.  Just saying. :)20:40
ccookeasj_wrk: Agreed :-)20:40
ccookeasj_wrk: same problem, I think20:40
*** wjs_ltop has joined #maemo20:41
asj_wrkayup :)20:41
RST38hShadow: What? Motif?20:41
*** femorandeira has quit IRC20:42
RST38h(and S60 for ultimate evil)20:42
*** mgedmin has quit IRC20:43
ccookeRST38h: motif and tcl/tk, running on S60?20:43
asj_wrkI'm kinda hoping Qt for S60 might help there...dunno is that too much to ask?20:43
RST38hQt for Symbian you mean20:44
RST38hBecause "S60" is just another name for Avkon toolkit20:44
*** bilboed-pi has quit IRC20:44
RST38hThere is also Eikon (the original toolkit from Symbian), it would be interesting to see what part of it is retained when moving to qt20:44
asj_wrkwhat feature/functions does Eikon provide? just roughly20:46
RST38hEikon is basically X11/Xutil20:46
RST38h+ some Xt (simple dialogs, etc)20:46
asj_wrkah ok, not sure how that would mesh into the Qt event loop...?20:47
RST38hAvkon is like a full UI toolkit on top of Eikon20:47
RST38hasj: Eikon ha got its own event loop20:47
ccookeSo symbian phones are basically running X?20:47
RST38hAnd hierarchical message passing mechanism20:47
RST38hccooke: No, it is just me making an analogy for penguin worshippers20:47
ccookeRST38h: oh, sorry20:47
*** bergie has joined #maemo20:48
RST38hI guess they will have to kill Eikon to use Qt20:48
RST38hThat would be the cleanest solution20:48
ShadowJKthey'll just pile it ontop20:49
ccookeRST38h: probably.20:49
asj_wrkRST38h: I guess I'm stuck in the penguin world, but you have to eventually block somewhere, can you block on both easily? Well I guess Qt already has that concept so I probably ansewered my own question20:49
RST38hasj: Yes, Symbian apps block by going into Eikon event loop20:49
RST38hShadow: That would cause a serious case of split personality20:50
RST38hasj: In fact, a Symbian app has no main(). It is a bunch of classes with some custom implemented methods20:50
RST38hasj: Symbian will call these methods to initialize application, it will then call event-handling methods as events arrive20:51
ccookeRST38h: which is similar to many other UI toolkits20:51
RST38hccooke: Well you usually do have main20:51
RST38hccooke: and call event loop explicitely20:51
*** stv01 has joined #maemo20:51
RST38hi.e. if you wish, you can insert your own code into the loop20:51
asj_wrkhmmmm, the last symbian app I wrote has a main32 or something, I think had to create/register an event queue I thought...but that was months ago, I'm busy moving so my Symbian learning stopped in June20:51
*** jmc93739653 has joined #maemo20:52
RST38hasj: That was entry point for the DLL20:52
RST38hasj: EMAIN3220:52
RST38hasj: it has nothing to do with traditional main20:52
asj_wrkah ok20:52
RST38hIf Nokia is clever, they will hide all the traditional Symbian stuff and just allow for main() and standard Qt code20:53
*** jnettlet has quit IRC20:53
asj_wrkhonestly the biggest problem I had with Symbian was finding upto date books/tutorials that weren't $50 a pop20:53
RST38hasj: You do not really need any20:53
RST38hasj: stuff at + samples should be suffcicient20:54
asj_wrkRST38h: coming from a linux/qt background the whole C class, T class, etc ideas need some explanation.  I needed the 50 page, Symbian for Linux people ;)20:54
ShadowJKpys60 is sufficient for hobbyhacking :)20:55
RST38hThere is no 50-page symbian20:55
asj_wrkShadowJK: pys60 has it's issues20:56
glass_asj_wrk: the books that are fifty bucks a pop ain't up to date either20:56
glass_so, the wiki, newlc etc are the way to go20:56
asj_wrkglass_: heh, too bad I didn't have this channel back in May ;)20:56
*** _jason8912 has joined #maemo20:57
*** krutt has quit IRC20:58
rmtmojocafe, doesn't seem to work, btw .. click on it and get prompted for a download link21:00
*** _jason8912 has quit IRC21:01
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC21:02
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo21:02
aSIMULAtorgood evening maemonians21:02
*** dark2 has joined #maemo21:03
rektidemaemorites is funniest. ++21:03
aSIMULAtorlet's stick with that, maemorite21:03
timeless_mbpsp3000: you alive? :)21:03
RST38halso: maemorism21:03
slonopotamusmememto maemori21:04
* sp3000 checks pulse21:04
*** eocanha has quit IRC21:04
slonopotamusoh, true. uno maemento21:05
aSIMULAtoruno maemento por favor21:05
*** igagis has joined #maemo21:08
*** etrunko has joined #maemo21:13
*** coldboot has joined #maemo21:13
GeneralAntillesThe 5800's lack of alphabet on the dialer really sucks.21:16
asj_wrkthe n97 doesn't have it either, that is lame21:16
*** bilboed has joined #maemo21:17
* timeless_mbp grumbles21:17
timeless_mbpsp3000: i can't do work from this side of the world?21:18
GeneralAntillesasj_wrk, I have this bookmarked as a reference. . . .
*** jofjdi has joined #maemo21:19
*** johnsq has joined #maemo21:19
*** L0cutus has quit IRC21:20
*** stv01 has left #maemo21:21
*** qwerty12_N810 has quit IRC21:21
*** qwerty12_N810 has joined #maemo21:21
*** Cwiiis has quit IRC21:21
*** hannesw has joined #maemo21:22
coldbootFor some reason when using SCons for Maemo on ARM only (works fine with i386), I get it terminating with error 126 unless I move python out of the way first.21:24
coldbootmoving python like this: mv /scratchbox/tools/bin/python /scratchbox/tools/bin/python.old21:24
*** jnettlet has joined #maemo21:24
*** _jason2701 has joined #maemo21:25
Stskeepsthat's fairly normal for sb1..21:26
*** etrunko has quit IRC21:29
* Stskeeps wonders idly who badger is on the forums21:29
johnsqhas anybody the quiver source code? the home-page seems dead.21:29
*** kozak has joined #maemo21:30
Stskeepsthink its closed source21:30
*** pillar has quit IRC21:30
*** kozak|work has joined #maemo21:31
*** calvaris has quit IRC21:32
johnsqthats bad, than i can't compile it for gentoo :(21:33
coldbootDid you want to funroll its loops?21:34
johnsqi wan't to compile it for a sane / standard system21:35
JaffaYeah, Quiver is closed source IIRC21:36
qwerty12_N810It's in non-free, at least21:36
dark2How i can install deb package in maemo21:37
*** bergie has quit IRC21:37
coldbootfakeroot dpkg -i package.deb21:37
coldbootdark2: ^21:37
dark2And thats all21:38
johnsqtoo bad, first usable picture viewer, as I already asked any other alternatives?21:38
*** Giovani_ has joined #maemo21:38
JaffaAnyone with a better Internet connection than me willing to go to or and tell me exactly how many accounts there are now?21:38
coldbootdark2: That's it.21:38
dark2And where i can execute the commans arp21:38
coldbootdark2: What?21:38
Jaffadark2: X Terminal ships as standard21:38
dark2i need to run arp -a21:39
dark2And i donnt have it21:39
SpeedEvil /me waits for jaffa's list.21:39
dark2I searched and found it on /sbin/21:39
SpeedEvilJaffa: I get ~6*3021:39
SpeedEvilJaffa: err - no - hangon21:40
* SpeedEvil bisects.21:40
* Jaffa is putting together a rushed presentation on the Maemo community for onedotzero and they want the slides yesterday21:40
*** AStorm has quit IRC21:41
SpeedEvilsearching now21:41
johnsqdark2: you found it on your desktop or not?21:41
johnsqdark2: you found it on your desktop or nit?21:41
*** florian has joined #maemo21:41
JaffaSpeedEvil: ta21:41
dark2On my maemo21:41
*** hellwolf has joined #maemo21:41
johnsqdark2: then you need only gain root. see wiki maemo21:42
dark2I press root21:44
dark2And im root21:44
SpeedEvilJaffa: and that link is slow. ~180*30 - better numbers in a bit21:44
johnsqdark2: that no command, that the kernel config for arp21:45
dark2How eck it21:46
dark2How i can check it21:46
johnsqdark2: cat /mnt/initfs/proc/net/arp21:46
*** rkabir_ has quit IRC21:46
SpeedEvilhmm. Fatal error:  Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/midcom/core/privilege.php on line 45721:47
*** frade_home has joined #maemo21:49
*** Firebird has joined #maemo21:49
SpeedEvilAsking for over page 180 or so seems to die horribly21:50
SpeedEvilPage 185(*30) has a karma of 521:51
JaffaI'll try and ask X-Fade or someone for n account grep from the db21:51
JaffaThere's a very long tail21:51
JaffaSpeedEvil: Thanks21:51
SpeedEvilAsking for more seems to be hitting php errors21:52
coldbootI have a problem with scratchbox 1 where all the resources of my Qt applications are now messed up, only for ARM.21:52
*** _jason2701 has quit IRC21:55
*** hannesw has quit IRC21:55
*** hannesw has joined #maemo21:55
coldbootThe main window of the application has majorly corrupted resources, and it runs extremely slow.21:55
coldbootIt works fine in i386, though.21:55
*** VDVsx has quit IRC21:56
*** jofjdi has quit IRC21:56
*** AStorm has joined #maemo21:57
*** hannesw has quit IRC21:57
*** hannesw has joined #maemo21:58
*** tiagofalcao is now known as tiagofalcao[AWAY21:59
*** tkharju has joined #maemo22:00
*** trbs has joined #maemo22:06
trbsanybody from europe figured out if it's cheaper to pre-order the n900 from the us ? google says 650dollar is 447euro... while europe pre-order stores list the n900 for 600 euro... but i don't know if there hidden costs to importing one ?22:08
Stskeepswell you are bound to be hit with some degree of customs fee..22:08
asj_wrktrbs: and will the euro version have normal 2100mhz 3g? the US version at 2100mhz t-mo AWS may not work...?22:08
johnsqtrbs: about 19% + 2% in germany22:09
mandaratrbs, well at  expansys is 499euro22:09
trbsasj_wrk,  ah good point... cell is not the same everywhere as well....22:09
Corsac620 for .fr :(22:09
SpeedEvilThey have to include the voltaic charger for france though.22:10
*** _berto_ has quit IRC22:10
SpeedEvilAnd frogs-legs aren't cheap.22:10
Corsacbut tasty22:10
asj_wrkaren't all nokia charges 100-240v? of course the plug won't fit22:10
trbsdidn't europe did the all phones need compatible chargers thing ? :)22:13
infobottrbs meant: don't europe did the all phones need compatible chargers thing ? :)22:13
*** MrGoose has joined #maemo22:19
SpeedEvilinfobot: recently22:21
SpeedEvilinfobot: gotta be mini-b22:21
SpeedEvilor something22:21
SpeedEvilwhich sucks - but...22:21
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo22:22
asj_wrk(which is better than mini-b)22:23
Stskeepsam i the only one getting weird conspiracy vibes over ? :P22:23
SpeedEvilyeah - micro-b22:25
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo22:25
* SpeedEvil would personally preferred 2.5mm fourpole - but meh22:25
*** eichi__ has quit IRC22:26
coldbootWhenever I compile a qt-maemo application in Scratchbox 1 for the armel target, the image resources are corrupted a lot, and the program runs extremely slow. I've posted the question here with details:
coldbootDoes anyone know what could be wrong with my scratchbox install? It's happened before, and I had to clean install scratchbox to get it working again.22:28
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Weird conspiracy vibes? No, just sad a person who evidently doesn't understand the device got one.22:28
*** lcuk2 has joined #maemo22:29
lbtany mesa/GL people here?22:31
lbtI'm looking for a mesa equiv to GLES22:31
*** ignacius has joined #maemo22:32
*** radic has quit IRC22:32
*** krutt has joined #maemo22:33
*** tkharju has left #maemo22:37
*** kozak|work has quit IRC22:39
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo22:44
*** Sargun has joined #maemo22:47
*** kozak has quit IRC22:48
*** radic has joined #maemo22:53
*** lcuk has quit IRC22:54
*** AStorm has quit IRC22:55
*** AStorm has joined #maemo22:55
*** albanc has quit IRC22:59
*** abner has quit IRC22:59
*** barisione has quit IRC22:59
*** marcoil` has joined #maemo23:00
*** abner has joined #maemo23:00
*** barisione has joined #maemo23:00
*** marcoil has quit IRC23:00
* lbt pulls the latest mesa-7.6 which has SW support for GL ES2.0 .... interesting...23:03
*** tulkastaldo has joined #maemo23:05
*** javispedro has joined #maemo23:06
javispedrolbt: Vincent. Or the PowerVR TI SDK stuff.23:09
*** mairas has quit IRC23:09
*** Woolly has joined #maemo23:10
Woollylardman: ping23:10
lbtit's .... rare.... bleu even23:10
javispedroa nightly?23:11
*** homeasvs__ has joined #maemo23:11
* lbt grabs the debian packaging and the dev source and squishes them together and calls it Mer-stable23:11
*** Giovani_ has left #maemo23:11
*** hari_ has joined #maemo23:12
*** acouto has joined #maemo23:13
*** mlpug has quit IRC23:13
*** Woolly has quit IRC23:16
coldbootHas anyone seen fureddo lately?23:17
coldbootHe was in here on August 14th, and had the same BadDrawable X error I'm having.23:17
*** barisione has quit IRC23:21
*** jep_ has joined #maemo23:21
*** barisione has joined #maemo23:21
GeneralAntillesThe Runaround @ Apple23:23
*** homeasvs_ has quit IRC23:24
*** setanta has quit IRC23:25
*** stv0 has joined #maemo23:26
*** LiraNuna has quit IRC23:27
coldbootGeneralAntilles: What/23:27
*** fiferboy has quit IRC23:27
*** LiraNuna has joined #maemo23:27
*** bstock_ is now known as bstock23:28
*** Komzzpa has joined #maemo23:31
*** stv0 has left #maemo23:31
*** Komzpa has quit IRC23:31
*** promulo has quit IRC23:32
*** geaaru has joined #maemo23:32
*** promulo has joined #maemo23:32
*** frade_home has quit IRC23:34
*** woglinde has joined #maemo23:35
*** ignacius has quit IRC23:35
*** macmaN6789 has quit IRC23:36
GeneralAntillesMac Pro is being configured for me as we speak.23:38
GeneralAntillesCustomer Relations people are useless.23:38
GeneralAntillesThe Store guys were so much more helpful.23:38
woglindeI dont care about mac pro23:38
GeneralAntilleswoglinde, I do, since it's free.23:38
*** gomiam has joined #maemo23:39
woglindeI would have taken a mac air23:39
GeneralAntillesFor a dual-2.5GHz G5?23:39
GeneralAntillesI don't think so.23:39
woglindeno chance for snow leopard23:39
GeneralAntillesLiquid cooled G5.23:40
GeneralAntillesIt leaked at the beginning of the year23:40
GeneralAntillesApple authorized a no-cost repair for me.23:40
GeneralAntillesThen the repair failed, so the Store authorized a replacement, but told me I needed to call the Customer Relations people to figure out what the straight replacement would be for the BTO options.23:41
GeneralAntillesSo I called Customer Relations, they gave me the runaround and told me I needed to deal with the Store.23:41
GeneralAntillesCalled the Store back and they said "Oh. OK, then, what'll you have."23:41
GeneralAntillesDone and done.23:41
*** andrunko has joined #maemo23:41
*** herzi has quit IRC23:42
*** fab has quit IRC23:42
*** _jason2874 has joined #maemo23:43
*** dolphin has joined #maemo23:44
coldbootIn general, when someone says: "You need to go talk to this other person who's part of my organization, directly or indirectly..."23:44
coldbootThey should talk to them themselves.23:45
*** jnettlet has quit IRC23:49
*** baraujo has quit IRC23:49
*** lizardo has quit IRC23:50
*** stv01 has joined #maemo23:51
*** stv02 has joined #maemo23:52
*** stv02 has left #maemo23:53
*** Free_maN has quit IRC23:56
*** jofjdi has joined #maemo23:58
GeneralAntillescoldboot, yeah, probably, but it's done now.23:59
*** gunni has joined #maemo23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!