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| lardman|afk | re | 00:13 |
|---|---|---|
| *** lardman|afk is now known as lardman | 00:13 | |
| javispedro | hi | 00:14 |
| AStorm | hello | 00:14 |
| lardman | hi chaps | 00:14 |
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| AStorm | hmmh | 00:15 |
| * AStorm has to unfreeze some money for the N900 | 00:15 | |
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| mgedmin | AStorm: have you found a place that actually sells them? | 00:19 |
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| AStorm | mgedmin: locally? they're on preorder, duh | 00:22 |
| AStorm | should be available in October | 00:22 |
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| mgedmin | good for you ... | 00:23 |
| AStorm | damn it, my bank changed the savings account rules for the worse | 00:23 |
| mavhc | how many times more expensive than n810 on release is it? | 00:23 |
| AStorm | have to find a better bank ;P | 00:23 |
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| AStorm | mavhc: hard to say, it's 599 Euro vs 499 Euro | 00:24 |
| lardman | is there a UK price yet? | 00:24 |
| * lardman wanders to the Nokia.co.uk site | 00:24 | |
| AStorm | yes, I think Ł499 | 00:24 |
| lardman | ouch | 00:24 |
| mavhc | n810 was 499? | 00:25 |
| lardman | yet £499 it is | 00:25 |
| lardman | s.yet/yep | 00:25 |
| lardman | oh dear why do I bother trying to type | 00:25 |
| lardman | :) | 00:25 |
| AStorm | mavhc: yes, it was I think | 00:25 |
| AStorm | but Google or Wikipedia might remember better than me | 00:26 |
| mavhc | do you code with those fingers? | 00:26 |
| lardman | yeah :) | 00:26 |
| mavhc | tabletblog said $450 | 00:27 |
| lardman | I wonder if the £ price will go down if the strength of the Euro decays...? | 00:27 |
| mavhc | I'll wait for it to halve in price | 00:27 |
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| lardman | how do I send an irc message to someone? I.e. if he's not online atm. Is that possible? | 00:34 |
| Mek | you can somehow use memoserv for that I think | 00:35 |
| lardman | ok, I'll do some Googling, thanks | 00:35 |
| AStorm | lardman: /msg memoserv help | 00:35 |
| lardman | cheers | 00:35 |
| AStorm | but people tend to ignore it quite a bit | 00:35 |
| mavhc | and what's the usa price for n900? | 00:35 |
| lardman | AStorm: yeah, but better than nothing | 00:36 |
| AStorm | mavhc: nobody knows yet | 00:36 |
| AStorm | lardman: and no, the prices aren't tied | 00:36 |
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| AStorm | mavhc: it'll probably never halve in price | 00:37 |
| mavhc | $649 | 00:37 |
| mavhc | so 45% more expensive for it to be a phone | 00:37 |
| lardman | hmm, not a registered nick, not ideal | 00:38 |
| AStorm | and have a real camera | 00:38 |
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| AStorm | and faster cpu, more flash, etc. | 00:38 |
| lardman | mavhc: yeah strange isn't it that phones are always really dear | 00:38 |
| ShadowJK | phone with >2x the cpu power :) | 00:38 |
| ShadowJK | and 2x the ram :) | 00:38 |
| lardman | yeah, but just in general | 00:38 |
| mavhc | AStorm: but all that's just technology progressing in the past few years | 00:38 |
| AStorm | and hopefully less sucky GPS | 00:38 |
| AStorm | mavhc: yes, but remember that you're comparing it with old tech | 00:39 |
| mavhc | at original prices | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | probably the same gps, I bet ;p | 00:39 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: likely not, different chip | 00:39 |
| mavhc | lardman: I have to assume that testing/licensing of something costs loads | 00:39 |
| AStorm | yeah, they had to find a good modem and get that radio agency approval in the EU and US | 00:40 |
| lardman | mavhc: yeah | 00:40 |
| ShadowJK | the radios and stuff cost about 100-150 separately, without power management finesse :) | 00:40 |
| ShadowJK | if you buy chinese | 00:40 |
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| AStorm | and are lucky enough to get one with a working Linux driver | 00:40 |
| AStorm | you still get to build that one... and for 2.6.19? (or was it 2.6.21) | 00:41 |
| lardman | I thought they tend to be black boxes | 00:41 |
| AStorm | not always | 00:41 |
| ShadowJK | iirc Nokia sent driver for one of their own hsdpa modems to upstream lniux kernel | 00:41 |
| lardman | at least the ones that are exposed to mere *users*! :) | 00:41 |
| mavhc | you don't just send it AT commands? | 00:41 |
| AStorm | standard-compliant ones support CDC-ACM | 00:41 |
| AStorm | and look like normal modems | 00:42 |
| AStorm | extra stuff though like SMS and signal power... | 00:42 |
| ShellEvil | And have fun undocumented extensions. | 00:42 |
| AStorm | sometimes documented | 00:42 |
| * ShellEvil points at the huwai e220 | 00:42 | |
| ShellEvil | yeah | 00:42 |
| mavhc | what about $20 phones? | 00:42 |
| AStorm | those are subsidized | 00:43 |
| * ShellEvil is currently needing to recieve a SMS through the e220 that uses a non-standard interface apparantly | 00:43 | |
| AStorm | or have *old* hardware | 00:43 |
| ShadowJK | they dont speak anything sensible | 00:43 |
| AStorm | indeed | 00:43 |
| ShellEvil | $20 ones from ebay do | 00:43 |
| ShadowJK | no data support at all typically | 00:43 |
| ShellEvil | $20 ones from ebay can have serial out | 00:43 |
| AStorm | serial out is not good... need a dongle | 00:43 |
| ShellEvil | :) | 00:43 |
| AStorm | and the protocol might not be standard AT | 00:43 |
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| ShellEvil | AStorm: there are lists of phones with serial outs on the intarwebs. | 00:44 |
| ShellEvil | and yes. | 00:44 |
| AStorm | also, connecting by wire is hell | 00:44 |
| AStorm | while BT+HSPA phones are expensive and usually have short battery life | 00:45 |
| ShellEvil | yeah. | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | depends what you do :) | 00:45 |
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| AStorm | like stay connected? ;P | 00:45 |
| AStorm | it eats battery like a call | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | mine stays connected a few days | 00:46 |
| AStorm | (which means ~4h on my Samsung U700 and that's a fairly good time) | 00:46 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: no no, not just "stay", actually use the connection | 00:46 |
| AStorm | I can stay on hspa for some weeks | 00:46 |
| ShadowJK | irc? :) | 00:46 |
| AStorm | assuming nothing actually is using the connection | 00:46 |
| AStorm | yes, irc eats the battery as usual | 00:46 |
| ShadowJK | downloading at hspa speeds consumes like a call :) | 00:48 |
| AStorm | true. | 00:48 |
| AStorm | is EDGE also UMTS or not? | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | and using phone as wifi ap eats shitloads on most things because it's ad-hoc which has no powersaving | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | no it's gsm | 00:49 |
| luke-jr | ... | 00:49 |
| luke-jr | wifi powersaving is a bad joke anyway | 00:49 |
| AStorm | oh, so I could just disable UMTS and it might live longer | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | gsm: gprs, edge | 00:49 |
| AStorm | hey, I connect via bluetooth ;p | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | 3g: umts, hsdpa, hsupa | 00:49 |
| AStorm | so hspa doesn't give me much if anything anyway | 00:49 |
| AStorm | (stupid phone claiming BT 2.1 EDR but not delivering) | 00:50 |
| AStorm | (either that, or n810 doesn't support it) | 00:50 |
| ShadowJK | bluetooth between some of my devices has a tendency to randomly cripple powersaing too. I tend to monitor use and reconnect if it eats alot of power | 00:50 |
| AStorm | hmmh | 00:51 |
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| AStorm | how would I check for that? | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | Well I've downloaded at >1mbit/s n810-bluetooth-phone, so n810 does support edr | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | on s60 there's "energy profiler" and on n810 some googling should yield "ftd" | 00:52 |
| AStorm | hmmh | 00:57 |
| AStorm | but I doubt I could squeeze out anything better out of that phone | 00:57 |
| AStorm | and yes, it's the phone claiming EDR and not delivering more than 384 kbps | 00:58 |
| AStorm | (USB works fast) | 00:58 |
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| ShadowJK | wifi psm works good enough for me anyway, when n810 eats 20mA idling with xchat open :) | 01:00 |
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| * ShadowJK has idea on how to improve it.. | 01:00 | |
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| AStorm | ShadowJK: lucky you, it eats far more here, maybe my IRC is more... busy ;P | 01:02 |
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| AStorm | note that I'm connecting via an ssh tunnel | 01:02 |
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| ShadowJK | Yeah, it eats more during busy days | 01:03 |
| AStorm | hmm, seems I'll have to move my investment to a savings account in another bank :/ | 01:04 |
| AStorm | what a mess | 01:04 |
| ShadowJK | if you make another program to sit on your ssh server, and on tablet, that batches messages, then there'd be less wakeups | 01:04 |
| ShadowJK | only batch when screen off / idle, of course | 01:04 |
| ShadowJK | idea is to save up, say, 10 seconds of traffic into one single bigger chunk instead of trickling it one line at a time | 01:05 |
| lardman | you could batch when the fg app is not the one that is using the connection | 01:05 |
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| AStorm | ShadowJK: yeah, and have IRC lag by 10s | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | lardman: that takes actual effort though | 01:06 |
| AStorm | an excellent idea ;P | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | astorm: only whe screen is off | 01:06 |
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| ShadowJK | and you dont notice it | 01:06 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: what screen? | 01:06 |
| mojocafe | gooood evening everyone | 01:06 |
| AStorm | ;P | 01:06 |
| AStorm | I'm using dircproxy there | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | the tablet's screen | 01:06 |
| AStorm | ah that | 01:06 |
| lardman | like the clock not updating when the screen is off | 01:06 |
| mojocafe | aaaah - long time no see ! | 01:07 |
| AStorm | then I could just disconnect I guess | 01:07 |
| AStorm | mojocafe: hello back! :) | 01:07 |
| ShadowJK | yeah dircproxy can send you what you missed when you reconnect :) | 01:07 |
| mojocafe | Jesus i havent been in here for ages. But now i am back and i have a BOMB with me :) | 01:07 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: to a limit. | 01:07 |
| lardman | H2O2? | 01:07 |
| AStorm | I'll have to improve its notifications etc. | 01:07 |
| AStorm | and log resend capabilities | 01:08 |
| mojocafe | Oh my gosh, the last time i was in here, there was an average of 50 people in here now we have a mob ! | 01:08 |
| kaw1 | Hello all. Anyone know how to recover if the mail application on the N810 continually crashes when started? Short of re-flashing, that is. Perhaps delete some settings files via the terminal? | 01:08 |
| AStorm | but that's for later | 01:08 |
| lardman | mojocafe: when were you last in? | 01:08 |
| AStorm | mojocafe: mob of idlers? ;> | 01:08 |
| mojocafe | lardman: 1974 i think. | 01:08 |
| lardman | lol | 01:08 |
| mojocafe | *just kidding* | 01:08 |
| RST38h | OOk, ALSA fixed | 01:09 |
| AStorm | kaw1: do you have all the latest updates? | 01:09 |
| ShadowJK | mojocafe: I hide the userlist for my own sanity's sake | 01:09 |
| mojocafe | Ok guys, i have some good news for you! At least those that can remember what i developed "back in those days". | 01:09 |
| * RST38h has been too polite with ALSA. A couple of good kicks and it is running | 01:09 | |
| mojocafe | Ok, general, where is the general ? | 01:09 |
| kaw1 | AStorm: Yes, I believe so. I just checked | 01:09 |
| mojocafe | Not in... ok. :( | 01:09 |
| javispedro | RST38h, :D | 01:09 |
| AStorm | kaw1: hmm, there are a few things that could be broken: 1) your swap file | 01:09 |
| AStorm | 2) your card's filesystem | 01:09 |
| ShadowJK | mojocafe: he's sulking and/or raging about at& tfrequencies ;) | 01:10 |
| mojocafe | :D | 01:10 |
| javispedro | RST38h, be careful with Maemo's ALSA small buffer, < PAGE_SIZE bytes | 01:10 |
| javispedro | (minus overhead) | 01:10 |
| lardman | mojocafe: I think he also works these days | 01:10 |
| kaw1 | Astorm: I haven't tried deleting the swap file and re-creating it. That sounds like a plan. | 01:10 |
| javispedro | I got hit with that while playing with drnoksnes | 01:10 |
| RST38h | javis: In my GetFreeAudio() call when ALSA returns -1, I had to kick it into gonads instead of returning 0 | 01:10 |
| * RST38h will be fine with <PAGE_SIZE buffer | 01:11 | |
| javispedro | at 44100 stereo 16-bit samples, it's a bit too short for my liking | 01:11 |
| mojocafe | ok ok.... ok :) ..... so here is my news: i updated my MOJOCAFE projekt and guess what: i found a way how you can use it WITHOUT having to register ! You can have full screen widgets on the n8x0 without having to provide ANY information :) .... just like general ask to and now i made it :) | 01:12 |
| mojocafe | you can check it out at http://www.mojocafe.net | 01:13 |
| javispedro | behold: the non believers' post! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31373 | 01:13 |
| lardman | burn him! | 01:13 |
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| ShadowJK | so, uh, what's mojocafe? :) | 01:14 |
| lardman | sorry, was watching the Tudors and got carrried away | 01:14 |
| RST38h | hmm, maemo alsa still does not work | 01:14 |
| RST38h | linux alsa works | 01:14 |
| mojocafe | ShadowJK: it's a project i developed to bring full screen widgets to ALL of my mobile devices | 01:14 |
| javispedro | RST38h, did you try aplay? does aplay work? | 01:15 |
| javispedro | it's a single-file binary. | 01:15 |
| javispedro | (1 kloc-ish) | 01:15 |
| mojocafe | This was the first version: http://video.google.de/googleplayer.swf?docid=-4254502208055432294&hl=de&fs=true | 01:16 |
| javispedro | (i mean, a single .c source file binary, around 1000 lines of code) | 01:16 |
| RST38h | javis: No, don't have aplay. Debugging with printfs | 01:17 |
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| mojocafe | I am porting the rest of the roundabout 100 old mojos like calendars, digital clocks etc. within the next hours and days into the new system. | 01:18 |
| mojocafe | anyone in here who could test out the new mojocafe version on a n810 ? | 01:19 |
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| RST38h | javis: I am failing to open ALSA PCM device :( | 01:20 |
| javispedro | RST38h, which one? | 01:20 |
| javispedro | or are you using the default one? | 01:20 |
| RST38h | "default" | 01:20 |
| javispedro | hm | 01:20 |
| RST38h | if(snd_pcm_open(&ALSA,"default",SNDRV_PCM_STREAM_PLAYBACK,0)<0) { die; } | 01:21 |
| RST38h | Am I doing something wrong? | 01:21 |
| * javispedro is wandering around aplay.c source | 01:23 | |
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| mojocafe | ShadowJK - have you checked it out ? | 01:24 |
| AStorm | RST38h: doesn't look like it | 01:25 |
| AStorm | oh, wait, that last 0 | 01:25 |
| RST38h | Device or resource busy | 01:25 |
| RST38h | This is what I am getting | 01:25 |
| RST38h | Somebody else is using ALSA | 01:26 |
| javispedro | RST38h, reboot again.. | 01:26 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 01:26 |
| RST38h | ok | 01:26 |
| javispedro | that's what happens when it gets stuck | 01:26 |
| RST38h | holy fuck. | 01:26 |
| AStorm | heh | 01:26 |
| AStorm | some app is using ALSA right now | 01:26 |
| AStorm | check if you don't have some ESD running | 01:26 |
| RST38h | but if it gets stuck like this, does it mean I can't safely use it for applications? | 01:27 |
| javispedro | AStorm: not really, on Maemo ESD does not output to ALSA | 01:27 |
| AStorm | 0 is fine (standard mode) | 01:27 |
| AStorm | javispedro: but it still does output to the card, it might interfere | 01:27 |
| AStorm | I'd kill it just in case | 01:27 |
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| javispedro | RST38h, this the kind of problem that would be solved if every other coder in the world was perfect :) | 01:27 |
| javispedro | assuming you don't use broken programs, it should work | 01:27 |
| AStorm | or if you wrote a pulseaudio driver | 01:27 |
| AStorm | :) | 01:28 |
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| AStorm | (or made pulseaudio ALSA driver work) | 01:28 |
| RST38h | javis: hmm ok | 01:28 |
| * RST38h has heard scary stuff about pulseaudio | 01:28 | |
| AStorm | (then use alsa-pulse plugin to route all remaining ALSA users to pulseaudio) | 01:28 |
| javispedro | AStorm: ESD outputs to another pcmtask, they are not related at all. lardman may talk about this better than me | 01:28 |
| RST38h | Floating point exception (core dumped) | 01:28 |
| AStorm | uhoh. | 01:29 |
| javispedro | RST38h, well, you got it further. | 01:29 |
| javispedro | :) | 01:29 |
| AStorm | check format. | 01:29 |
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| RST38h | ok, it crashed and alsa is stuck again now | 01:29 |
| javispedro | yes, that's the plan :P | 01:29 |
| AStorm | show your code please :) | 01:29 |
| RST38h | I am not using this crap. | 01:29 |
| RST38h | Back to ESD. | 01:29 |
| javispedro | RST38h, i did not want to influence you, but I made that exact decision too. | 01:30 |
| javispedro | :) | 01:30 |
| AStorm | esp. what hw info you set | 01:30 |
| javispedro | considering I was abstracted of the ALSA API by SDL, it only goes to show how much alsa... well. | 01:30 |
| AStorm | and whether you have called snd_pcm_prepare | 01:30 |
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| AStorm | RST38h: you get to call snd_pcm_hw_params properly :> | 01:31 |
| RST38h | AStorm: 44100 | 01:31 |
| RST38h | AStorm: 150ms | 01:31 |
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| AStorm | which bit format? | 01:31 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Works on Ubuntu. Works on EA Linux. | 01:31 |
| RST38h | 16LE | 01:31 |
| RST38h | 1 channel | 01:31 |
| AStorm | hmmh | 01:31 |
| AStorm | should work | 01:32 |
| AStorm | what was the "current" setup? | 01:32 |
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| AStorm | (snd_pcm_hw_params_current) | 01:32 |
| RST38h | a moment | 01:32 |
| AStorm | before and after setup | 01:32 |
| RST38h | AStorm: http://pastebin.com/m3c10bcb8 | 01:33 |
| RST38h | This is after setup. | 01:33 |
| AStorm | looks ok | 01:34 |
| AStorm | do you have a debugger there to check where the exception occurred? | 01:34 |
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| RST38h | AStorm: I do, but I have solved the problem by eutanasia. | 01:35 |
| RST38h | Absolutely no desire to find out just how exactly this particular ALSA implementation is broken | 01:35 |
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| javispedro | esd = 39 source files pulseaudio = 209 | 01:37 |
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| RST38h | javis: This is why I intended to go ALSA for Maemo5 | 01:37 |
| javispedro | oh | 01:38 |
| RST38h | javis: My only hope is that it will be less broken there (seems to be a completely different version, same as in Ubuntu) | 01:38 |
| javispedro | if your target is maemo5, you ma | 01:38 |
| javispedro | was going to say you may get better luck there :) | 01:38 |
| RST38h | My current target is Maemo4. I have no Maemo5 hardware and SB is broken. | 01:38 |
| javispedro | The DSP no longer does sound in n900 (read here), so I guess alsa is back to the usual configuration | 01:39 |
| RST38h | ESD does not seem to go lower than 44.1kHz on Maemo4. Weird... | 01:40 |
| javispedro | RST38h, it did for me, but of course it does resampling | 01:40 |
| javispedro | in sw | 01:40 |
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| RST38h | javis: What is its native resolution? | 01:40 |
| javispedro | forgot, lemme check | 01:41 |
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| mojocafe | anyone with a n810 willing to test out the new mojocafe.net ? | 01:44 |
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| javispedro | wow, I've been using my partially borked esd version in my N810 since the days I was playing with the audio :s | 01:46 |
| javispedro | now I understand why the battery seemed to go down faster these days :D | 01:46 |
| RST38h | heh | 01:47 |
| javispedro | it's 44100 by default | 01:47 |
| javispedro | you can actually make it output 48000 to the dsp | 01:47 |
| javispedro | but don't know what the dsp will do to that | 01:47 |
| lardman | have a look in the arm-side gstreamer bit of the dsp sink | 01:51 |
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| lardman | I seem to remember seeing some params | 01:51 |
| lardman | though was long ago, so may be my imagination :) | 01:51 |
| javispedro | lardman: I see the esd driver setting those, so I guess the dsp doesn't have anything to say about that ;) | 01:52 |
| javispedro | e.g. pcm_params_data.sample_rate = SAMPLE_RATE_44_1KHZ; | 01:52 |
| lardman | well it will accept whatever you give it I guess | 01:52 |
| javispedro | (pcm_params_data.dsp_cmd = DSP_CMD_SET_PARAMS) | 01:52 |
| lardman | yep | 01:52 |
| javispedro | will it work if it sets 48000? | 01:52 |
| lardman | is there a define for that value? | 01:53 |
| javispedro | yep | 01:53 |
| lardman | if not, no | 01:53 |
| javispedro | SAMPLE_RATE_48KHZ | 01:53 |
| lardman | well then yes probably | 01:53 |
| javispedro | well, what the *, i'll try it :) | 01:53 |
| lardman | :) | 01:53 |
| * lardman heads back to the TV, let me know how it goes :) | 01:53 | |
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| RST38h | javis: So ESD uses 44.1? | 01:56 |
| javispedro | RST38h, yep | 01:56 |
| javispedro | so, by default, it'll mix everything to 44.1 | 01:56 |
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| RST38h | ok, then my rate is ok | 01:56 |
| RST38h | Ah, the blivit guy continues on his quest for uncovering maemo security disaster! | 01:57 |
| * javispedro grabs popcorn | 01:58 | |
| VDVsx | mgedmin, ping | 01:58 |
| mgedmin | VDVsx: are you sure? | 01:58 |
| * RST38h goes to sleep. It is 2:58 here | 01:58 | |
| javispedro | bah, trying to guess who is doing the resampling by looking at cpu usage is crazy | 01:58 |
| RST38h | javis: The correct answer is "some bastard" | 01:59 |
| VDVsx | mgedmin, yeah, I got a 403 in the logs page :P | 01:59 |
| mgedmin | oops | 01:59 |
| javispedro | mplayer uses 12% of the cpu using esd backend, but nearly 0% using sdl-esd. esd using the same average the whole time. | 01:59 |
| javispedro | well. | 01:59 |
| javispedro | not really, esd's average is a bit higher | 01:59 |
| mojocafe | Ok guys. nevermind. thanks for your time. see you later. | 01:59 |
| javispedro | so I guess it's the bastard | 01:59 |
| RST38h | you have no other alternatives to esd so who cares how much it eats... | 02:00 |
| javispedro | RST38h, actually, I think it's pretty good | 02:00 |
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| RST38h | alsa broken and gst addresses different purposes | 02:00 |
| javispedro | better than mplayer for a start, which seems... incredible | 02:00 |
| RST38h | heh | 02:00 |
| RST38h | let us hope pulseaudio does not bring system to complete stop | 02:01 |
| javispedro | (lower quality too if my poor hear is to be trusted) | 02:01 |
| javispedro | it will .) | 02:01 |
| javispedro | we'll see. | 02:01 |
| javispedro | hopefully, | 02:02 |
| javispedro | the slowness is mitigated by the cool things (e.g. routing phone audio signal to apps, etc) | 02:02 |
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| mgedmin | VDVsx: fixed, thanks for the heads up! | 02:03 |
| * javispedro reinstalls osso-esd from tableeter | 02:03 | |
| VDVsx | mgedmin, thanks, np :) | 02:03 |
| * mgedmin struggles with PIL | 02:03 | |
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| lcuk | anyone know what format the video out from the n900 is | 02:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: um, avi? :) | 02:17 |
| lcuk | i mean the wired video format | 02:17 |
| lcuk | not the stuff taken from the cam | 02:17 |
| timeless_mbp | in English? | 02:17 |
| AStorm | RST38h: pulseaudio should be faster | 02:18 |
| till- | pal and/or ntsc i guess | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 02:18 |
| AStorm | mplayer's pulse backend is fast (tested here) | 02:18 |
| AStorm | unlike esd one | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | you can pick pal or ntsc at runtime | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a pref | 02:19 |
| timeless_mbp | setting, whatever | 02:19 |
| javispedro | AStorm: I don't what's with the mplayer esd backend, but it's mindboggling slow | 02:19 |
| javispedro | AStorm: even sdl-esd backend is 10 times faster | 02:19 |
| AStorm | mplayer is using too short blocks | 02:19 |
| till- | presumebly like the n82 and n95s vo | 02:20 |
| AStorm | and esd protocol is fairly heavy | 02:20 |
| javispedro | that, or resampling with a überquality algorithm | 02:20 |
| AStorm | nopes. | 02:20 |
| AStorm | unless you're running 48000 Hz audio | 02:20 |
| javispedro | AStorm, it resamples, while the sdl-esd does not. | 02:20 |
| AStorm | oh drat. | 02:20 |
| AStorm | buggy mplayer version :> | 02:20 |
| AStorm | anyway, esd resampling is horrible and should be banned | 02:20 |
| AStorm | LERP was good enough for 8-bit computers | 02:21 |
| javispedro | horrible, but fast. and my poor hearing cannot notice it :) | 02:21 |
| AStorm | give us cubic on DSP | 02:21 |
| javispedro | AStorm, afaik, DSP no longer for sound in N900. | 02:21 |
| javispedro | *used. | 02:21 |
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| AStorm | even better :) | 02:21 |
| javispedro | even slower :) | 02:21 |
| AStorm | unless memory transfers are dog-slow, it still has DSP | 02:21 |
| AStorm | which could be used for that | 02:22 |
| AStorm | anyway, cubic done well is not much more expensive than linear | 02:22 |
| AStorm | even if CPU is to run it | 02:23 |
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| AStorm | of course, if the DSP is running it, sinc might be a far better choice - I think there are special instructions for it | 02:36 |
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| lardman | dsp is not used for sound as the whole device can reach a lower power level if it decodes on ARM | 02:41 |
| lardman | assuming a use case of the screen off and just decoding audio, which is probably fair | 02:41 |
| lardman | that is what I understand to be the reason anyway | 02:41 |
| lardman | AStorm: nothing to stop you from writing a DSP task to do it mind you | 02:43 |
| AStorm | heh | 02:44 |
| AStorm | not that it would be easy, it's still C64x DSP :/ | 02:44 |
| AStorm | I hoped they'd add C67x instead, more useful | 02:44 |
| AStorm | (it's floating point) | 02:44 |
| lardman | it has 8bit types, stop moaning ;) | 02:44 |
| lardman | convert to fixed point, not too difficult | 02:45 |
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| lardman | in fact the DSP has macros to do that, and then to handlle the fixed point calcs, you just need to work out how many points you need and where | 02:45 |
| AStorm | but calculate sinc with fixed point, yes difficult :> | 02:45 |
| lardman | is it, I don't know | 02:46 |
| AStorm | at least, efficiently | 02:46 |
| lardman | sinc filter is this? | 02:46 |
| AStorm | cubic would still be easy though | 02:46 |
| AStorm | but that would still probably use less power on the main cpu than dsp | 02:46 |
| lardman | it's not that the main CPU is more power efficient, just that the main CPU must remain powered up if the DSP is running, but the DSP can be shutdown if not being used | 02:47 |
| AStorm | true | 02:48 |
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| AStorm | so what that DSP is good for, anyway? :> | 02:48 |
| AStorm | maybe only offload there when CPU load is high? | 02:48 |
| lardman | that is the reason for the decision anyway, so I heard | 02:48 |
| lardman | video decoding | 02:48 |
| lardman | that is what it will be used for afaiu | 02:48 |
| AStorm | yes, see above :) when the CPU load is high. | 02:48 |
| lardman | though it might be worth writing an e.g. tremor decoder for the DSP to offload some CPU load while playing games or the like | 02:49 |
| lardman | etc | 02:49 |
| lardman | so yep, that too :) | 02:49 |
| AStorm | but that would require some extra comm between the kernel and the resampler/decoder | 02:49 |
| lardman | yes | 02:50 |
| javispedro | heh | 02:50 |
| javispedro | there you have a use case for pulseaudio | 02:50 |
| AStorm | simple cpu load check might be enough, but is not efficient | 02:50 |
| javispedro | automatically switching output device depending on cpu load | 02:50 |
| AStorm | yeah. | 02:50 |
| lardman | but less overhead than decoding the vorbis data and running the game engine on the ARM | 02:50 |
| AStorm | but a constant overhead. | 02:51 |
| lardman | it wouldn't be easy to do it on cpu load, not idea how a seamless transition could be made, but it could be done on an application level | 02:51 |
| javispedro | AStorm: if you know of a way to easily modify pulse to allow hw mixing let me know :) | 02:51 |
| javispedro | to *use hw mixing | 02:51 |
| javispedro | (more than to just "allow") | 02:51 |
| AStorm | hw mixing? as in using DSP? just have a resampler module. | 02:51 |
| javispedro | is that documented somewhere? :P | 02:52 |
| AStorm | pulse has a bunch of those already | 02:52 |
| javispedro | but I want to mix the streams myself, e.g. | 02:52 |
| AStorm | the one calling libspeex is fairly fast | 02:52 |
| javispedro | a "sink" that accepts multiple streams instead of a mixed single one | 02:52 |
| lardman | an inverse Tee :) | 02:53 |
| AStorm | hmmh, it does support that, like multiple outputs on one ALSA single multichannel one | 02:53 |
| javispedro | (well, come to think of it, I could make the resample module output audio and then a "shim" sink module) | 02:53 |
| * lcuk shudders | 02:53 | |
| AStorm | *multiple stereo sinks on one ALSA multichannel output | 02:54 |
| javispedro | AStorm, yeah, but not the really the same | 02:54 |
| AStorm | really similar, you could make 32 channels like that | 02:54 |
| javispedro | it still mixes all apps's streams into one (composed of N channels) | 02:54 |
| AStorm | nope, it passes them to ALSA | 02:54 |
| javispedro | hm | 02:54 |
| AStorm | (unless resampling is required) | 02:54 |
| javispedro | I was reading the oss sink as sample | 02:55 |
| javispedro | guess I made a wrong decision :) | 02:55 |
| AStorm | OSS sink is a bit... simple :) | 02:55 |
| javispedro | if what you say is true my opinion of pulseaudio is going to change radically, for the better :) | 02:56 |
| AStorm | I can check it, why not | 02:56 |
| AStorm | still, is there some real hardware mixing in there? I don't think so | 02:56 |
| javispedro | AStorm: yeah, my 1999 laptop has two streams hw mixing | 02:57 |
| lcuk | ok javis | 02:57 |
| javispedro | (appearing to alsa as two sound cards, but I fixed that with a proper asound.conf) | 02:57 |
| lcuk | do we think this will all work if its just all pushed | 02:57 |
| AStorm | hm, let me check again :) I think pulse will use the hw mixing if available | 02:57 |
| AStorm | (until it fills the available mix channels) | 02:57 |
| AStorm | if not, we could extend it to do that | 02:58 |
| javispedro | lcuk, liqbase? what are your fears? | 02:58 |
| javispedro | AStorm, doing that is on my agenda, but I feared it required extensive changes | 02:59 |
| lardman | bed time | 02:59 |
| lardman | night all | 02:59 |
| javispedro | lardman, gnite! :) | 02:59 |
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| javispedro | AStorm, can't see any of that goodness :( it opens a single stream on unsuspend() | 03:01 |
| javispedro | then again, this is debian lenny version (aka OLD) | 03:01 |
| AStorm | checking 0.9.15 here | 03:02 |
| AStorm | yes, it does... I'll better ask devs | 03:03 |
| javispedro | AStorm, ta! | 03:03 |
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| * javispedro finally found PA svn. | 03:07 | |
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| AStorm | it seems that hardware mixing would be a non-trivial change | 03:07 |
| AStorm | but not impossible | 03:07 |
| javispedro | as I thought... it would require breaking api compatibility with all sinks. fun stuff. | 03:09 |
| Macer | hm | 03:12 |
| Macer | damnit. have to go somewhere and don't have enough time to encode the last 2 episodes of eureka | 03:12 |
| Macer | maybe 1 | 03:12 |
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| AStorm | javispedro: no, bad and bad... and worse | 03:23 |
| AStorm | resamplers are one big .c file | 03:23 |
| AStorm | they'd need modularization | 03:23 |
| javispedro | AStorm: do you know if the make logs in #pa ? | 03:24 |
| AStorm | and hardware mixing is supposedly dead and buried | 03:24 |
| AStorm | hmm. | 03:24 |
| AStorm | I'll check | 03:24 |
| javispedro | i'm in the channel :P got pointers from google to a discussion that "happened there" but can't find logs | 03:25 |
| AStorm | no logs apparently | 03:26 |
| javispedro | well :) | 03:26 |
| AStorm | at least, no public ones | 03:26 |
| javispedro | don't worry, and thanks | 03:26 |
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| Proteous | trying to use OVI maps turn by turn in San Fancisco == teh lose | 03:46 |
| Proteous | well, it's great if you want to explore random places and get on and off the freeway a lot | 03:46 |
| Proteous | but the directions tend to lag about 30 seconds behind where you actualy are so it sorta sucks | 03:47 |
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| ShellEvil | Is it losing GPS position - or is it just failing at routing? | 03:50 |
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| user_ | hi | 03:50 |
| Proteous | the routes were funky, but really it was the lag that made it mostly useless | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume lots of tall buildings? | 03:51 |
| Proteous | actualy, the positioning did pretty good | 03:51 |
| user_ | I am left-handed, and want to relocate the browser scrollbar to the left | 03:51 |
| Proteous | a few times it thought I took a turn I didn't and recalculated the route | 03:52 |
| Proteous | I ended up just going back to the overhead map and just planning my own route | 03:52 |
| user_ | editing about:config does not work on my n810 | 03:52 |
| user_ | what can I do | 03:53 |
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| javispedro | i think there's a theme or gtk patch for left scrollbars? | 03:53 |
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| AStorm | Proteous: sounds like an app bug then | 04:04 |
| AStorm | it forgot to take account of your current position when redoing notifications | 04:05 |
| javispedro | AStorm: interesting conversation, truly. I recorded every word :) | 04:05 |
| AStorm | (and speed) | 04:05 |
| javispedro | (in #pa) | 04:05 |
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| Proteous | I think part of it is probably the slow CPU on my n97 | 04:08 |
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| AStorm | Proteous: unlikely, more like missing caching | 04:09 |
| AStorm | (of the directions) | 04:10 |
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| Tu13es | are there any better ways to connect to my ssh/screen/irssi session than xterminal? | 04:50 |
| Tu13es | from my n800, that is | 04:50 |
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| angasule | hmm, does anyone have a link to a video recorded by an n8x0? one that hasn't been reencoded to youtube or anything | 04:56 |
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| zerojayPC | angasule: well... it looks like complete crap, so... heh.. | 04:58 |
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| angasule | really? :? | 04:59 |
| msh_ | I suppose it works OK as a light level sensor ;) | 05:00 |
| zerojayPC | It's a shitty vga camera so... yeah. | 05:00 |
| zerojayPC | Not really meant for filming videos. | 05:01 |
| angasule | oh | 05:01 |
| angasule | I thought it was more like the N900 | 05:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | shitty vga cams are under $1 per | 05:04 |
| SpeedEvil | which is prolly why | 05:04 |
| comhack | I have a weird issue. I setup the mail program that comes with th n810 for gmail but it only retrieves messages up until two months ago. Nothing current? Any ideals? | 05:06 |
| comhack | I get juna and july but not agust or setember | 05:07 |
| comhack | #june | 05:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Nobody likes you anymore? | 05:08 |
| SpeedEvil | reminds me of the comedy openoffice won't print on tuesdays bug | 05:08 |
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| comhack | hehe | 05:09 |
| comhack | Yeah I figured it was a conspiracy | 05:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Do you have lots of messages sitting on the server? | 05:10 |
| * SpeedEvil is stabbing in the dark here. | 05:10 | |
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| zerojayPC | angasule: The front camera is meant for video chat. | 05:10 |
| zerojayPC | angasule: Just like the N900. | 05:10 |
| zerojayPC | angasule: So they are relatively shitty. | 05:10 |
| zerojayPC | comhack: You probably have it set to only download your most recent 200 messages or something like that. | 05:11 |
| angasule | does the N900 have two cameras? | 05:11 |
| SpeedEvil | angasule: yes | 05:11 |
| zerojayPC | angasule: One front, one back. | 05:11 |
| SpeedEvil | angasule: one quite nice one | 05:11 |
| comhack | zerojayPC: wouldnt that be the newest 200 | 05:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Have there been released pictures of the 5mp one? | 05:11 |
| comhack | not two mnths ago | 05:11 |
| msh_ | SpeedEvil: there are a few on flickr | 05:12 |
| angasule | aah, ok, I'm interested in the nice one :) but good to know there is one for chatting | 05:12 |
| zerojayPC | comhack: Don't know. I don't know your inbox. :) | 05:12 |
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| zerojayPC | comhack: Check your account settings. There's an option there to specify which to download. Also, the Gmail site also controls how many messages you receive. | 05:12 |
| comhack | yeah I know that | 05:13 |
| comhack | all setting perfect | 05:13 |
| comhack | thats the weird part | 05:13 |
| comhack | using pop gonna try imap | 05:13 |
| zerojayPC | There are pics out there from the N900's 5MP camera, but I wouldn't use them to judge image quality right now. It's still a prototype and things can change between now and final. | 05:13 |
| SpeedEvil | I doubt that the hardware quaility is changing. | 05:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Noise reduction tweaks - maybe | 05:14 |
| zerojayPC | It's not a matter of the hardware changing but the image compression and so on. | 05:14 |
| zerojayPC | So quality can vary wildly from now until release. | 05:15 |
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| esaym153 | linux is a good program | 05:51 |
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| Sryche | hi, how can I reinstall the Maemo on my N800? | 05:55 |
| zerojayPC | You'll want to reflash the OS. | 05:55 |
| zerojayPC | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 05:55 |
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| Sryche | zerojayPC: thanks! | 05:57 |
| Sryche | well, i'm having some problems to remove the battery :| | 05:58 |
| Sryche | any tips? | 05:58 |
| Sryche | XD | 05:58 |
| Sryche | is there some kind of lock? | 06:00 |
| Sryche | |: | 06:00 |
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| esaym153 | Sryche: have you gotten the back cover off | 06:13 |
| esaym153 | ? | 06:13 |
| esaym153 | the battery should just slip out | 06:14 |
| esaym153 | get a knife of something | 06:14 |
| zerojayPC | There's a latch. | 06:14 |
| esaym153 | or* | 06:14 |
| zerojayPC | You need to have the stand open to get to it. | 06:15 |
| zerojayPC | Then you can just move the latch over and the back cover comes off. | 06:15 |
| zerojayPC | Battery should come out extremely easily. | 06:15 |
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| MaceN8x0 | ugh | 06:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | had to go out and do dumb shit again | 06:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | i hate people | 06:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | a person in general is ok, but people in general are idiots | 06:18 |
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| Stskeeps | morn | 08:22 |
| RST38h | heya sts | 08:22 |
| thux | morning | 08:22 |
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| Stskeeps | morning slonopotamus_ | 08:34 |
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| slonopotamus_ | Stskeeps, moo | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | how's the various projects with gentoo ging? | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | oing | 08:34 |
| slonopotamus_ | Stskeeps, not bad :) hacking on emerge performance mostly, libcal is only missing erasing stuff | 08:37 |
| MaceN8x0 | damn i love eureka | 08:37 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 08:37 |
| MaceN8x0 | they had a "flashback" show kinda this last episode and it made me want to watch it all again | 08:39 |
| Sho_ | slonopotamus_: you work on portage? | 08:45 |
| Sho_ | MaceN8x0: I've been meaning to give Eureka a second chance ... the pilot didn't grip me back then | 08:45 |
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| MaceN8x0 | Sho_, you have to get 3 episodes into a show to truly judge | 08:47 |
| MaceN8x0 | if it doesn't catch you by the 3rd or 4th , then it sucks | 08:47 |
| MaceN8x0 | character relationship and development takes a while | 08:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sho_, worth a second look. | 08:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Little hoaky, little campy, but fun | 08:48 |
| MaceN8x0 | eureka is great tho heh | 08:48 |
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| MaceN8x0 | it has a good balance to it | 08:48 |
| slonopotamus_ | Sho_, contributing performance-wise patches | 08:48 |
| Sho_ | MaceN8x0: it was a busy a season with many new shows contending for attention heh :) | 08:48 |
| johnx | mornin' | 08:48 |
| Stskeeps | morning johnx | 08:49 |
| MaceN8x0 | Sho_, yeh, tell that to Firefly | 08:49 |
| MaceN8x0 | ;) | 08:49 |
| Sho_ | that one i actually did watch | 08:49 |
| MaceN8x0 | Castle is better than i thought it would be | 08:49 |
| MaceN8x0 | more of a comedy than anything else | 08:50 |
| Sho_ | castle is still on my todo | 08:50 |
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| Sho_ | right now I only have time for defying gravity | 08:50 |
| MaceN8x0 | defying gravity? | 08:50 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 08:50 |
| Sho_ | a space-based show on ABC | 08:51 |
| MaceN8x0 | docmentary type? | 08:51 |
| MaceN8x0 | or science fiction type? | 08:51 |
| Sho_ | no, though it tries to be realistic | 08:51 |
| Sho_ | it's not really a must see, but as a space nut you have to take what you can get | 08:52 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 08:52 |
| MaceN8x0 | so more like a drama? | 08:52 |
| Sho_ | it's set around 2050, with 8 astronauts on a mission to tour the solar system | 08:52 |
| MaceN8x0 | oh | 08:52 |
| MaceN8x0 | more science fiction then | 08:52 |
| MaceN8x0 | hm, i'll check it out | 08:53 |
| Sho_ | and an overarching mystery plot about an apparently sentient mystery device they have on board that seems to have been dug up during a mars mission 10 years prior | 08:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Sho_: does the mystery device have a military mode? | 08:53 |
| MaceN8x0 | reminds me of 2001 and 2010 | 08:53 |
| MaceN8x0 | nice to see back then they thought we would be on manned missions to Jupiter | 08:53 |
| Sho_ | at to that a dose of relationship/romance plots. sort of grey's anatomy in space. | 08:53 |
| MaceN8x0 | 2010 is next year | 08:54 |
| Sho_ | nice sfx though, done by the same studio that does them for heroes. | 08:54 |
| MaceN8x0 | what happened? | 08:54 |
| SpeedEvil | MaceN8x0: well - a lot of programs got cancelled. | 08:54 |
| MaceN8x0 | hahaha | 08:54 |
| Sho_ | SpeedEvil: no military dude so far | 08:54 |
| Sho_ | err | 08:54 |
| Sho_ | -dude +mode | 08:54 |
| SpeedEvil | MaceN8x0: for example - there was - just after apollo - a orion test vehicle. | 08:54 |
| MaceN8x0 | Sho_, space sound effects? | 08:55 |
| MaceN8x0 | like loud rocket engines in space vaccum? | 08:55 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 08:55 |
| Sho_ | MaceN8x0: hm, good question ... no "swoooowsh" on flybys i think | 08:55 |
| Sho_ | *swoooosh | 08:55 |
| MaceN8x0 | firefly was silent | 08:55 |
| SpeedEvil | MaceN8x0: you take nuclear bombs, and light them off under a curved plate. Plate moves sharply away from the bomb, shock absorber absorbs the blast, spacecraft is going 10-20m/s faster | 08:55 |
| Sho_ | and shakeycam, yeah | 08:55 |
| MaceN8x0 | which was awesome | 08:55 |
| SpeedEvil | MaceN8x0: but got cancelled. | 08:55 |
| MaceN8x0 | SpeedEvil, uhm. ok? where did that come from? | 08:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | MaceN8x0: I was attempting to answer why we hadn't done 2010 in reality. | 08:56 |
| * SpeedEvil needs sleep. | 08:56 | |
| MaceN8x0 | normal fuel won't get there? | 08:57 |
| Myrtti | GOOD MORNING INTERTUBES! | 08:57 |
| Myrtti | today is a *WONDERFUL* day! | 08:57 |
| SpeedEvil | MaceN8x0: it's an exponential thing | 08:57 |
| Stskeeps | morning myrtti | 08:57 |
| MaceN8x0 | i always thought it was the lack of the communist war machine and the ending of the cold war | 08:58 |
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| MaceN8x0 | geopolitical competition drove space travel for decades | 08:58 |
| SpeedEvil | MaceN8x0: A fuel that's twice as good doesn't get you going twice as fast - it's more like well over 4 times. | 08:58 |
| MaceN8x0 | unless the shuttle carrying the plutonium blows up and scatters it all over the world | 08:59 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 08:59 |
| SpeedEvil | MaceN8x0: that - and the ICBM derived launchers are horribly expensive by design. The fuel for the shuttle costs ~300k - for the liquid - yet a shuttle launch - a large slice of a billion. | 08:59 |
| SpeedEvil | _much_ effort is put into weight reduction - when actually spending 3m on liquid fuel isn't an issue. | 09:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyway - I should not be on IRC at 7AM | 09:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | well, find a way to reverse gravity wells ;) | 09:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Fairy dust, and sunbeams trapped in cucumbers. | 09:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Night | 09:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | use space as a spring | 09:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | hahahaha | 09:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | tgouche | 09:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | touche too | 09:01 |
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| Myrtti | I think I might need to reflash my N800 | 09:06 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:22 |
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| aSIMULAtor | morning | 09:23 |
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| tigert | mrong | 09:51 |
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| benson | morning | 10:03 |
| mavhc | if being mrong is wrong then I don't want to be mrite | 10:04 |
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| carboncopy | Hi everybody, am back, with another "issue" | 10:07 |
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| carboncopy | am looking for a bluetooth 3G(HSDPA) modem to be used with N8*0 | 10:08 |
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| johnx | which provider are you with? | 10:11 |
| RST38h | moo all | 10:11 |
| RST38h | ehlo johnx | 10:11 |
| johnx | and a fine morning to you RST38h | 10:11 |
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| carboncopy | i don't want a phone, as I already have a phone, and the data package will be separate from the phone | 10:12 |
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| johnx | carboncopy, any reason not to just tether to a phone? | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, a cheap 3g one | 10:14 |
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| RST38h | carboncopy: you do understand how awkward your n8*0 will look with that modem stuck in? | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | bluetooth.. | 10:20 |
| RST38h | do 3G modems come with bt? | 10:20 |
| RST38h | I thought they were stricly USB devices? | 10:20 |
| johnx | closest thing I can think of is a 3G->WiFi portable access point | 10:20 |
| till- | is bt fast enough for 3g? | 10:22 |
| Myrtti | http://thereallymobileproject.com/2009/09/novatel-mifi-2352-portable-wifi-hotspot-first-look/ | 10:22 |
| till- | afaik bt has ~ 1mbit, 3g up to 10mbit | 10:22 |
| johnx | Myrtti, yup, exactly what I was thinking | 10:22 |
| RST38h | Kinda pointless here, no 3G | 10:22 |
| * RST38h sheds a tear | 10:22 | |
| till- | 3g data is to expensive | 10:23 |
| Myrtti | cheaper than soap ;- | 10:23 |
| Myrtti | ) | 10:23 |
| till- | my opinion :) | 10:23 |
| RST38h | Enjoy: http://rixstep.com/1/1/20070724,00.shtml | 10:23 |
| till- | and i've got wifi coverage on my campus, my home and my friends | 10:23 |
| RST38h | Since when price became an opinion? | 10:23 |
| till- | if you decide wheter you will use 3g or not | 10:24 |
| till- | i would say | 10:24 |
| johnx | RST38h, too expensive for the value (cost/benefit analysis) is a personal choice | 10:25 |
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| RST38h | johnx: yea, but it is separate | 10:25 |
| RST38h | price is just a number, published and thus known, can't call it "opinion" =) | 10:26 |
| johnx | RST38h, expensive is a value judgment | 10:26 |
| till- | i didn't say a price, just its to expensive right now :) | 10:27 |
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| tigert | the moment you have flatrate 3g | 10:50 |
| tigert | is the moment you dont care much about wifi | 10:50 |
| tigert | because you can keep your ssh and such running all the time | 10:50 |
| suihkulokki | well, in some 3rd world countries and USA the 3g coverage is spotty, especially indoors | 10:52 |
| * RST38h can keep his ssh running all the time over egprs | 10:53 | |
| RST38h | ssh isn't really a problem, web is | 10:53 |
| * till- don't need ssh running all the time | 10:54 | |
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| * Proteous keeps ssh running all the time over edge | 10:58 | |
| tigert | suihkulokki: yeah | 11:01 |
| * tigert does ssh + screen all the time | 11:02 | |
| tigert | its the only sensible way to run irc in my opinion :) | 11:02 |
| tigert | RST38h: why is web the problem? | 11:02 |
| RST38h | tigert: too much data to transfer over egprs | 11:02 |
| tigert | ah | 11:02 |
| RST38h | takes time | 11:02 |
| tigert | hdspa or whatever it is, | 11:03 |
| tigert | its getting fast enough that I dont care about how fast it is | 11:03 |
| tigert | its fast enough | 11:03 |
| RST38h | no hsdpa, no umts here | 11:03 |
| timeless_mbp | hey | 11:04 |
| *** slonopotamus has quit IRC | 11:04 | |
| timeless_mbp | how do i try to vote for something? | 11:04 |
| RST38h | Military is saying 2.1GHz band interferes with their missile defense systems | 11:04 |
| timeless_mbp | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/liqtorch/0.1.5 | 11:04 |
| timeless_mbp | i want to promote that | 11:04 |
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| * timeless_mbp pokes stemosco | 11:07 | |
| * timeless_mbp pokes Stskeeps | 11:07 | |
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| * timeless_mbp randomly pokes people | 11:07 | |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: remind me to whack someone who worked on clock :( | 11:07 |
| tigert | timeless_mbp: found another crazy cornercase? :) | 11:08 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: absolutely improper use of strings | 11:09 |
| timeless_mbp | open clock | 11:09 |
| timeless_mbp | look at the "world clock" labels | 11:09 |
| timeless_mbp | note the one that lists "GMT" ... | 11:09 |
| *** bergie_ has joined #maemo | 11:09 | |
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| timeless_mbp | now tap it | 11:09 |
| timeless_mbp | note a different description for the first item under <add> | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | if you don't have any additional items, add one | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | then tap that item | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | now look for the line where it references your time zone | 11:10 |
| tigert | I never use the clock anyway | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | you've met two strings, one that uses GMT and one that doesn't | 11:10 |
| tigert | file a bug :) | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah yeah | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm sick | 11:10 |
| tigert | it doesnt seem to stop you from ircing :) | 11:11 |
| timeless_mbp | i actually unlocked my bugzilla account before i left work yesterday just so i could file this bug | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | being sick and ircing is compatible :P | 11:11 |
| * timeless_mbp sips tea | 11:11 | |
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| vladovg | hi | 11:11 |
| vladovg | :) | 11:11 |
| vladovg | and good morning | 11:11 |
| lbt | morning all (and vladovg) | 11:13 |
| timeless_mbp | ooh | 11:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | madbomber has a product | 11:13 |
| carboncopy | sorry, was out of office | 11:14 |
| carboncopy | am looking through the discussion now | 11:14 |
| carboncopy | http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/13/huawei-announces-i-mo-hspa-modem-with-wifi/ | 11:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | help | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | madbomber is unhappy | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | but it doesn't know it | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | and i can't get apt/dpkg/ham to tell me | 11:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | wah | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: "Send Failed, please try again." [Close] | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | onedotzero ... | 11:33 |
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| lcuk | ahhh timeless you require a big projector on the side of the BFP Southbank | 11:34 |
| lcuk | sorry, its a dependency# | 11:34 |
| lcuk | :D | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | which reminds me | 11:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | i need to figure out if the dvr i have has composite out or composite in | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | my lcd doesn't have composite in :( | 11:34 |
| florian | hi all | 11:35 |
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| * timeless_mbp wonders who owns findmine | 11:36 | |
| lcuk | timeless, "testmsg" | 11:37 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 11:37 |
| lcuk | onedotzero | 11:37 |
| lcuk | gets you through without the checks | 11:37 |
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| RST38h | Why would agps-ui install a daemon listening on port 7275? | 11:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | more fun | 11:39 |
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| RST38h | internet says it is "OMA UserPlane Location" | 11:39 |
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| Corsac | woot, n900 is now 619e on expansys.fr | 11:40 |
| RST38h | Is it going up or down? | 11:40 |
| Corsac | down | 11:41 |
| RST38h | goooooooooooood | 11:42 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Gah, produce presentation material for onedotzero today - after I found out I'm being roped in yesterday. | 11:42 |
| Corsac | it made 750 → 650 -> 620 | 11:42 |
| Jaffa | Not fun. | 11:42 |
| lcuk | jaffa lol | 11:42 |
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| Corsac | but anyways it was cheaper in it and de afair | 11:42 |
| lcuk | its ok, at least you can get to london | 11:42 |
| Corsac | like 600 since the beginning | 11:42 |
| lcuk | repeated questions have so far been fruitless | 11:42 |
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| lcuk | and im meant to be there | 11:42 |
| lcuk | today | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | that's pretty bad | 11:43 |
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| * lcuk nods | 11:43 | |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: can't you take a train? | 11:43 |
| lcuk | no job, no money | 11:43 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Get on the Virgin train from Manchester Piccadilly; travel first class and charge 'em back. | 11:43 |
| Jaffa | Should only be about 150ukp | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: how much is the train? | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | ukp? | 11:43 |
| Corsac | £ | 11:44 |
| timeless_mbp | someone didn't like GBP and had to be politically correct? | 11:44 |
| lcuk | i dunno but i have been told by the one with purse strings i am on extremely limited budget | 11:44 |
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| Jaffa | GBP is wrong (although right) | 11:44 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: doh | 11:44 |
| Jaffa | Cos Great Britain is a geological island; UK is a political country | 11:45 |
| timeless_mbp | and it's used in Belfast? | 11:45 |
| timeless_mbp | please keep in mind that the n900 doesn't think Belfast is in UK | 11:45 |
| timeless_mbp | we're geographically challenged here | 11:45 |
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| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Belfast is in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Belfast's currency is GBP. | 11:49 |
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| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Dublin is in the Republic of Ireland and uses EUR | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: as i said, we're geographically challenged here | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | we don't think Belfast is in UK :) | 11:49 |
| timeless_mbp | find an n900 and see for yourself :) | 11:49 |
| Jaffa | FFS | 11:50 |
| timeless_mbp | we also decided to highlight a place called Guam in Missouri and say it was in time zone +10 | 11:50 |
| timeless_mbp | which is typical of pacific island nations :) | 11:50 |
| timeless_mbp | you like having islands in the continental us, right? | 11:50 |
| carboncopy | looks like this is what am looking for :) http://www.huawei.com/mobileweb/en/news/view.do?id=1000&cid=61&type=0 | 11:51 |
| carboncopy | now, to convince my employer I need it for my work :D | 11:51 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: are those easter eggs? :) | 11:52 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: depends on when you like finding your easter eggs | 11:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i think there's something about rotten easter eggs that you find months later | 11:52 |
| plastun | hello! | 11:52 |
| Corsac | they usually don't smell that good | 11:52 |
| plastun | When the Maemo summit 2009 results will be published? | 11:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | plastun: eh? | 11:54 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: so i've heard | 11:54 |
| timeless_mbp | thankfully we don't deal w/ easter eggs | 11:54 |
| timeless_mbp | instead, i'm supposed to clean my apt of crumbs in time for the event that was responsible for that schism | 11:55 |
| timeless_mbp | s/clean/cleanse/ | 11:55 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: instead, i'm supposed to cleanse my apt of crumbs in time for the event that was responsible for that schism | 11:55 |
| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: how do you like them eggs? | 11:55 |
| plastun | I mean sponsorship results | 11:55 |
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| timeless_mbp | in case people are curious, there really is a Guam, MO | 11:55 |
| timeless_mbp | it's an unincorporated town in a county whose population is <30k | 11:56 |
| Corsac | but still not in pacific | 11:56 |
| timeless_mbp | we called the US census bureau to check :) | 11:56 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: yeah, i'm pretty sure the time zone there isn't +10 | 11:56 |
| Corsac | how many potential n900 users is there in Guam, MO? | 11:58 |
| RST38h | <30k | 11:59 |
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| lardman | morning | 12:00 |
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| lardman | anyone know about Python bindings for C code? | 12:00 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: based on population, i'd say 0 | 12:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | however i could imagine someone who owns or looks at an n900 searching for guam | 12:01 |
| jrocha | lardman, you mean Hildon bindings for Python? | 12:01 |
| timeless_mbp | and being confused when they find it in the continental us | 12:01 |
| wazd_n800 | 'lo all) | 12:01 |
| lardman | I've got a buffer, which I'm told is a string, and want to pass it to my C code. I guess the PyArg_ParseTuple format should be either s or S, but does s assume my buffer will contain no null chars? | 12:01 |
| RST38h | heya wazd | 12:02 |
| lardman | jrocha: no, I want to wrap some C code to call it from Python | 12:02 |
| jrocha | lardman, don't know much about that, the opposite is more usual I guess, nonetheless, check this out: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~ask/cinpy/ | 12:03 |
| lardman | or should I just use e.g. SWIG and not try to work out how to do it by hand? | 12:04 |
| lardman | Thanks for that, I think I'd be better implementing a Python function that wraps the C though as the C is pretty big | 12:04 |
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| lardman | mm, SWIG looks easy enough | 12:06 |
| RST38h | lardman, what are you doing in python anyway? | 12:07 |
| lardman | barcode decoder UI | 12:07 |
| RST38h | ah! | 12:07 |
| lardman | but the guts are written in C | 12:07 |
| RST38h | finally, a good use for the camera | 12:08 |
| lardman | yeah :) | 12:08 |
| lardman | actually works too, which is nice | 12:08 |
| thp | lardman: depending on how much data need to be passed between frontend/backend, separate processes and pipes might be an option | 12:08 |
| lardman | though the 1D decoder spits out too much rubbish, QR and Datamatrix work though | 12:08 |
| lardman | thp: it shouldn't be too much, just single image frames of ~320 x 240 | 12:09 |
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| RST38h | whoever got moderation rights at tmp, the spammer guy is at it again | 12:09 |
| lardman | I don't want ipc overhead either really | 12:09 |
| lardman | RST38h: TMO? linky? | 12:10 |
| RST38h | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=323600#post323600 | 12:10 |
| RST38h | but he is carpet bombing, so there is more | 12:10 |
| lardman | he's gine | 12:10 |
| lardman | gone | 12:10 |
| RST38h | =) | 12:10 |
| thp | lardman: http://docs.python.org/extending/index.html is a good starting point | 12:11 |
| lardman | thp: my confusion is really that the camera output on the Python side is said to reside in a string, which is fine, but the import function looks for a null terminated string | 12:11 |
| lardman | but perhaps that's only on the way back into Python, rather than the way in? | 12:11 |
| lardman | i.e. my buffer of camera data may contain null chars when being passed from Python to C | 12:12 |
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| thp | should be no problem, as long as you know the size of the buffer | 12:13 |
| lardman | yep | 12:13 |
| lardman | also, what's the difference between a char array string and a string object? | 12:13 |
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| lardman | as in how can I tell which one has been created in Python? | 12:14 |
| jrocha | lardman, why can't you build the UI in C? | 12:15 |
| lardman | I can, but Python GTK is much nicer than C | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | jrocha: no one in their right mind builds a ui in c | 12:16 |
| thp | lardman: http://docs.python.org/c-api/string.html#PyString_AsStringAndSize maybe this is the function you are searching for? | 12:16 |
| lardman | thanks thp | 12:16 |
| jrocha | timeless_mbp, what??? | 12:16 |
| jrocha | I've written UIs in C and in Python | 12:17 |
| lardman | I should also add that sqlite is much nicer in Python than C too | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | jrocha: and in the former cases, you weren't in your right mind | 12:17 |
| thp | and PyString_Check can be used on a PyObject* to check if its a python string | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | that doesn't imply you were in your right mind for the latter case | 12:17 |
| jrocha | of course I prefer Python but C seems to be a better choice in this case since you already have something that looks extensive, written in C | 12:17 |
| lardman | jrocha: it's a good point though | 12:17 |
| lardman | jrocha: I switched to Python because the C code was buggy (my own fault), and have been able to track down my bugs now, so I could pretty easily switch back to C and correct the bugs | 12:18 |
| lardman | jrocha: well the ui and decoders are separate | 12:18 |
| jrocha | timeless_mbp, I've actually started with Python and I like both and don't think that one is out of his mind just because of using one language | 12:18 |
| lardman | though my UI code was written in C and I ported it to Python | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | jrocha: *shrug* | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | you're welcome to share sample ui code | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | however, i have a good record of tearing C code to shreds | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | so you're warned not to :) | 12:19 |
| lardman | :) | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | hubris is the better part of valor (?) | 12:19 |
| jrocha | timeless_mbp, I've ported the EOG to Maemo, you can check it | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | is it in extras? | 12:20 |
| lardman | once I get the 1D decoder working decently I'll probably need some help with infernal treeviews :) | 12:20 |
| jrocha | not yet | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | how do i install it then? | 12:20 |
| jrocha | but you can get it at: git.igalia.com | 12:20 |
| jrocha | timeless_mbp, criticizing code is easy, writing code is a bit harder | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i write code too | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i just try to avoid doing it :) | 12:21 |
| jrocha | I'm gonna make a deb and try to have it on extras too | 12:21 |
| _berto_ | criticizing is always easier than doing things :p | 12:21 |
| jrocha | timeless_mbp, then I'm sorry for you :) | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | jrocha: why? | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | a wise coder writes as few lines of code as possible | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | the fewer lines, the fewer bugs :) | 12:22 |
| jrocha | timeless_mbp, you said you avoid doing code.. | 12:22 |
| jrocha | timeless_mbp, that (about # lines of code) is wrong | 12:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | not that much, i just pick my battles | 12:22 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, i mustnt be in my right mind either | 12:23 |
| lcuk | liqbase is written in c | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, if you only ported eog, what would i read? | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: liqbase is different | 12:23 |
| lcuk | howso? | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | you built your own toolkit | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | that by definition means you're out of your mind :) | 12:23 |
| lcuk | its a full gui with objects and events and hooks and stuff | 12:23 |
| jrocha | timeless_mbp, you'd read all the fremantle code | 12:23 |
| lcuk | hahaha | 12:23 |
| jrocha | anyway guys, gotta go back to writing code | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | jrocha: i've probably skimmed through more maemo internal code than most people @nokia | 12:24 |
| jrocha | timeless_mbp, good for you :) | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | bad for my sanity | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | definitely bad | 12:24 |
| lcuk | you dont just skim it though - you find the pathways to fail exceedingly well! | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: yeah well... that too | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | which reminds me, someday you should point me to your sources | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | lemme know when you want a review :) | 12:25 |
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| lcuk | anytime | 12:25 |
| lcuk | http://github.com/lcuk | 12:25 |
| lcuk | but only if you are willing to hop in and help | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | 21 #. Translaters: This string is for a toggle to display a toolbar. | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | 22 #. * The name of the toolbar is automatically computed from the widgets | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | 23 #. * on the toolbar, and is placed at the %s. Note the _ before the %s | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | 24 #. * which is used to add mnemonics. We know that this is likely to | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | 25 #. * produce duplicates, but don't worry about it. If your language | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | 26 #. * normally has a mnemonic at the start, please use the _. If not, | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | 27 #. * please remove. | 12:26 |
| * timeless_mbp coughs | 12:26 | |
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| * Myrtti smacks timeless_mbp | 12:26 | |
| lcuk | hi Myrtti how you feelin today? | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | "hi, we don't care about how localization should work, so we did something incredibly stupid but tried to justify it" | 12:26 |
| Myrtti | lcuk: better every day :-) | 12:26 |
| lcuk | :) good | 12:27 |
| lcuk | you coming to the summit? | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: what kind of indentation algorithm are you using? | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | http://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/blob/a07d844b2364784ddf2de55267280a8299e1d44a/src/filebuf.c | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | renders really strangely | 12:27 |
| Myrtti | nah, I'll be attending a wedding in Littlehampton then | 12:27 |
| lcuk | timeless, yeah not a very tidy one, my editor eats things at different times | 12:28 |
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| lcuk | and for a while had its own thought about how many spaces made a tab | 12:28 |
| lcuk | boooooo | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | might i suggest you find something to reformat your code? | 12:28 |
| lcuk | sack the wedding off and come anywya | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | *anything* | 12:28 |
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| Myrtti | lcuk: and miss an opportunity to "Meet the Extended Family"? nah... ;-) | 12:29 |
| lcuk | timeless, you could suggest many things whether i get round to them is another matter | 12:29 |
| lcuk | i might infact have to drop the whole thing very soon | 12:29 |
| lcuk | heh | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | while((charwidth)>3) | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | why the extra parens? :) | 12:29 |
| lcuk | it needed a hug | 12:30 |
| jrocha | lcuk, LOL! | 12:30 |
| lcuk | normally when things like that happen its been sat at ((charwidth-1)>3) | 12:30 |
| lcuk | and ive removed the -1 | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | in this case i ithink it was -=4 | 12:31 |
| jrocha | that had happened to me | 12:31 |
| lcuk | i havent modified that file since i wrote it tho i dont think | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | imgdata = &imgdata[-x]; | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | gross | 12:31 |
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| lcuk | that was my first bit of code i wrote for the original book reader :$ | 12:32 |
| lcuk | first time in c in over 10 years :) | 12:32 |
| lcuk | ahh you are on other stuff lol | 12:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/blob/a07d844b2364784ddf2de55267280a8299e1d44a/src/liqapp.c#L80 | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | your error handling there is unfortuate | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | s/ua/una/ | 12:35 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: your error handling there is unfortunate | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | when getcwd fails, it fills buf with the error string | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | which means that 86 will do something _funny_ | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | 91/97 don't handle failure :) | 12:35 |
| * lcuk nods | 12:37 | |
| lcuk | thanks | 12:37 |
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| lcuk | damn, andre isnt here | 12:37 |
| lcuk | could do with somewhere to make a proper note about these | 12:37 |
| lcuk | im slammed with other stuff so wont change it right now | 12:38 |
| * lcuk mails himself | 12:38 | |
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| timeless_mbp | your spelling of "it's" as "its" in | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | http://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/blob/a07d844b2364784ddf2de55267280a8299e1d44a/src/liqapp.c#L385 | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | is annoying :) | 12:39 |
| lcuk | its a comment | 12:39 |
| lcuk | ;) | 12:39 |
| RST38h | A disturbing probe into the potential for apparently innocent biscuits' ability to do harm has revealed that an astounding 25 million Brits have been injured while indulging in some light coffee/tea break snack action, with 500 victims requiring hospital treatment. | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: "int" is 32bits, right? | 12:40 |
| lcuk | think so | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | int liqapp_filesize(char *filename) | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | won't work very well when you encounter an ISO on the 30GB file system of an n900 :) | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | char *liqapp_filename_walkoverpath(char *filename) | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | will do something less than helpful for "/tmp/" | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | (possibly intentional, but the comment should explain that) | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | int liqapp_file_copy (char * from, char * to, int allowoverwrite) | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | coverity will probably complain about the ability to lose a symlink race | 12:43 |
| * timeless_mbp doesn't care | 12:43 | |
| lcuk | has never been used | 12:43 |
| lcuk | was going to but abandoned | 12:44 |
| lcuk | the walkoverpath is used with files only | 12:44 |
| lcuk | ie, i already know its a filename and not a dir | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | app.version = strdup(version); | 12:44 |
| lcuk | and just want to drop the last bit | 12:44 |
| lcuk | path | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | isn't checked for failure | 12:44 |
| lcuk | the title isnt either | 12:45 |
| lcuk | if you pass in nulls your program will fail at first run | 12:45 |
| lcuk | if a dev lets that out .. | 12:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh, i mean alloc failure | 12:46 |
| timeless_mbp | strdup(0) will crash iirc | 12:46 |
| timeless_mbp | snprintf(buf,FILENAME_MAX,"%s/.liqbase/liqbase.force.home.user",envhome); | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | technically the way you're doing this is unfortunate | 12:47 |
| lcuk | yes | 12:47 |
| lcuk | very | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | you really should stick a canary at the end of the string | 12:47 |
| lcuk | but i couldnt think of a better way | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | and make sure it's properly managed | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | because if it isn't, then you're writing to a file which isn't the one you think you are | 12:47 |
| lcuk | so im still running at root | 12:47 |
| lcuk | but i want access to the same data i do when i run from the icon | 12:48 |
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| lcuk | but obviously ~ is different | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | basically if envhome is incredibly long | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | then it's possible to write to envhome/.liqb | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | because the 'b' might be the last thing that "safely" fits into the buffer | 12:49 |
| lcuk | it doesnt write anywhere | 12:49 |
| lcuk | it just checks existance | 12:49 |
| lcuk | so if that happened | 12:49 |
| lcuk | it would just carry on regardless | 12:49 |
| lcuk | using the ~ that it originally had | 12:49 |
| timeless_mbp | ok :), still bad style :), someone might copy your code and think it's safe/good :) | 12:49 |
| timeless_mbp | 666 and friends don't alloc check | 12:49 |
| lcuk | well, that is safe/good - there is a max length of the system filenames | 12:50 |
| lcuk | and i honour that length | 12:50 |
| lcuk | if not my fault if a filepath ends up too long | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 12:50 |
| lcuk | and who on maemo has a ~ path that would break filename_max | 12:51 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 12:51 | |
| timeless_mbp | /afs/cell/andrew.cmu.edu/a/b/abcdefghijklm.... | 12:51 |
| * lcuk nods | 12:51 | |
| timeless_mbp | the path itself doesn't have to break filename_max, just the path plus your long string :) | 12:52 |
| lcuk | there are much longer strings inside ~ | 12:52 |
| lcuk | than i attempt to use there | 12:52 |
| lcuk | buried in subfolders | 12:52 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 12:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i just like flagging things once | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | it's something i want people to be aware of, since they usually don't really pay attn to such things | 12:53 |
| lcuk | you are like former boss - its damned good | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | "i'm safe, i used snprintf instead of sprintf" | 12:53 |
| lcuk | he has a way of breaking apps - and hence making them stronger | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | "but what happens when you actually hit that case?" "oh.. um... dunno, it must be safe, right?!" | 12:53 |
| lcuk | heh yeah | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | exit(returnstatus); | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | return returnstatus; | 12:53 |
| timeless_mbp | surely someone warns that the return is unreachable? | 12:54 |
| lcuk | i dont think gcc does for the settings im using, but yeah its silly :$ | 12:54 |
| lcuk | theres warnings in numerous places that could do with regoing over | 12:55 |
| lcuk | mostly unused variables | 12:55 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyway, i'm tired :) | 12:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | but my ips is still "creating plan" | 12:59 |
| lcuk | not the only one, i think i had 3 hours last night | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | jrocha: so um | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | the strings EOG use are disturbing :) | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | "_Remove from Toolbar" | 13:00 |
| timeless_mbp | why is Toolbar capitalized? | 13:00 |
| jrocha | timeless_mbp, that was not part of my port | 13:00 |
| timeless_mbp | what did you actually do? :) | 13:00 |
| * lcuk sighs relief as timeless switches focus ;) | 13:01 | |
| timeless_mbp | without guidance, i will wander aimlessly :) | 13:01 |
| jrocha | and I haven't synced the sources in a couple of weeks, so it might be a solved bug | 13:01 |
| * timeless_mbp rotfl | 13:02 | |
| timeless_mbp | http://git.igalia.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=eog.git;a=blob;f=po/en_GB.po;h=0d053041222b8e03d9afeb71c6d80813a39346b9;hb=HEAD#l353 | 13:02 |
| timeless_mbp | feel free to tell their british localizer that he's supposed to um.... localize words.... | 13:02 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, and tell the guy who wrote the original that it's "chosen" not "choosen" | 13:02 |
| jrocha | timeless_mbp, I did all the fremantle code inside EOG | 13:04 |
| timeless_mbp | jrocha: give me a url | 13:04 |
| timeless_mbp | i can't randomly find stuff short of xref'ing it | 13:04 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'm too lazy to do that :) | 13:04 |
| jrocha | timeless_mbp, nr 1: look for the ifdef USE_HILDON if you want | 13:04 |
| jrocha | nr 2: I'm at work | 13:04 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, if EOG has a bugs.maemo.org product, i'll file a couple of bugs | 13:05 |
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| jrocha | nr 3: I haven't asked for your review and I couldn't care less about string issues | 13:05 |
| * timeless_mbp can't figure out how to use gitweb | 13:06 | |
| * lcuk just crashed gdb | 13:08 | |
| lcuk | A problem internal to GDB has been detected, | 13:08 |
| lcuk | further debugging may prove unreliable. | 13:08 |
| lcuk | Quit this debugging session? (y or n) ^C | 13:08 |
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| lcuk | timeless_mbp, when you have played and ran through the playground or onedotzero have you encountered any stability issues | 13:21 |
| timeless_mbp | nope | 13:21 |
| lcuk | ie - could this be related to the build i have here | 13:21 |
| lcuk | system build i mean | 13:21 |
| lcuk | thats good then :) | 13:22 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't seem to have playground anymore | 13:22 |
| lcuk | i got word today that icons have finally appeared for things | 13:22 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 13:22 |
| lcuk | mm | 13:22 |
| timeless_mbp | icons = yum | 13:22 |
| lcuk | yeah the rocket pencil is dreamy :D | 13:22 |
| qwerty12_N810 | i.e. it doesn't leave much to the imagination? :) | 13:23 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 13:23 | |
| lcuk | that same pencil should be in the top right of every screen as well :) | 13:23 |
| timeless_mbp | why doesn't ham support portrait? | 13:23 |
| lcuk | if you press it you can draw on anything | 13:23 |
| lcuk | lol qwerty12_N810 | 13:23 |
| lcuk | with liqflow moving, the rocket looks like its flying through space :$ | 13:24 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: you need to get an icon for the package too | 13:24 |
| lcuk | i need to add control for it :D | 13:24 |
| lcuk | yeah thats what i mean | 13:24 |
| lcuk | this morning i was told it appeared | 13:24 |
| lcuk | i didnt do anything more since qwerty showed me how a couple of weeks ago | 13:24 |
| lcuk | timeless problem with my dev at the moment, i have to maintain compatability with the sdk repo | 13:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | wait, liqflow listens to the accelerometer/ | 13:26 |
| lcuk | yeah | 13:26 |
| lcuk | if you hold it up | 13:26 |
| lcuk | it falls like rain | 13:26 |
| lcuk | no matter what orientation | 13:26 |
| lcuk | i want to do the same with the individual widgets | 13:27 |
| lcuk | but i havent got a polyfill or roto texture mapper | 13:27 |
| lcuk | i need the gl backend really | 13:27 |
| * lcuk hopes javispedro does well with his basics of gles | 13:27 | |
| Captain_Picard | http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid263777539?bctid=10635445001 n900 users need theese arms | 13:28 |
| lcuk | timeless, it also does something if you shake it | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, i found shaking too | 13:28 |
| lcuk | i should really put a video up of all the little nuggets in the system | 13:28 |
| lcuk | but im goin to london today | 13:29 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, you still up for saturday? | 13:29 |
| lcuk | timeless, that flow works on 8x0 :) | 13:29 |
| lcuk | it surprised me immensely | 13:29 |
| lcuk | i thought i would need the power of omap3 | 13:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: hopefully. but I still need to look into getting tickets | 13:30 |
| lcuk | quim | 13:30 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: go for Thursday instead | 13:30 |
| lcuk | ahh h even better | 13:30 |
| lcuk | you two discuss | 13:30 |
| lardman | lcuk: did you say it was worth going in? | 13:30 |
| lardman | Or not? | 13:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: nah, Saturday works out better for me | 13:30 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: fair enough | 13:30 |
| lcuk | ill text you once i get there and let you know | 13:31 |
| lcuk | you two should be able to get sorted tho | 13:31 |
| lcuk | hold on | 13:31 |
| lcuk | didnt someone say something | 13:31 |
| lcuk | crap | 13:31 |
| lcuk | actually, dig in the itt thread | 13:31 |
| lcuk | and look | 13:31 |
| lcuk | ive gotta do some code changes before i get sorted for leaving | 13:31 |
| lardman | yeah just wondering if it's still open after 5pm though | 13:32 |
| lcuk | pub is either way | 13:32 |
| lardman | indeed | 13:32 |
| * Jaffa 'll be there on Saturday now | 13:34 | |
| lcuk | you kinda have to be now lol | 13:35 |
| Jaffa | Yeah | 13:35 |
| lardman | hmm, I chose the wrong day to go to London from the looks of it | 13:35 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: I just can't say no to Jussi ;-) | 13:35 |
| lcuk | you can | 13:35 |
| Jaffa | Well, I can. | 13:35 |
| lcuk | but only when you are far away from doors | 13:35 |
| * ccooke preorders an n900. Given the cost, I'm glad I put down some money for this in December :-/ | 13:36 | |
| lcuk | ccooke, i cannot fault the device | 13:36 |
| lcuk | its cpu is second to none :D | 13:36 |
| ccooke | lcuk: *grin* | 13:38 |
| * lcuk feels the POWER | 13:38 | |
| ccooke | Hell, this'll be the first time I've ever bought an unlocked phone. Never really cared before | 13:38 |
| ccooke | But waiting to see if Vodafone take the phone on and offer a subsidy would take too long... especially since I've already upgraded this year (Though on the offchance they do, my wife's due an upgrade :-) | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, my sister really loves the audio quality on the n900 | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | she can tell that i'm using it and is very happy | 13:40 |
| ccooke | (and I'm not exactly thinking it likely there'll be any subsidies) | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | (i.e. when i call her from it) | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i love the audio quality too | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | (and as people here will note, i rarely give anything resembling praise about products) | 13:40 |
| * timeless_mbp debates walking to work while sick to grab a bite to eat | 13:41 | |
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| ccooke | timeless_mbp: I pre-ordered an n810 when they were announced. Grabbed my wife one for her next birthday. We'd both been using Zauruses (Zaurii? :-) before then, but since they're discontinued... | 13:41 |
| lcuk | ccooke, what im impressed by isnt the phone, its the possibility of the phone when i need it - i use tablet much more in data mode and always have done (doh!) | 13:41 |
| lcuk | the datasim in it works perfectly and for the first tiem ever i did internetty stuff whilst sat in the car | 13:42 |
| timeless_mbp | i was quite happy to ditch my n81 | 13:42 |
| timeless_mbp | and oddly, i'm not having any problems transitioning from my e61i to the n900's keyboard | 13:42 |
| timeless_mbp | no one will say they love the n900 keyboard, but it definitely works for me | 13:42 |
| ccooke | I'm currently using an HTC Magic. Android is a very nice system, but... there are some limitations I don't like. | 13:42 |
| suihkulokki | < timeless_mbp> i love the audio quality too | 13:43 |
| suihkulokki | are you sure it's just not the drugs and fever? :P | 13:43 |
| ccooke | suihkulokki: tbh, I was expecting the audio quality to be good. The n810 has stunning audio for such a small device | 13:43 |
| tigert | nobody loves a tiny keyboard when compared to a real one, sure | 13:43 |
| * ccooke has been resigned (and happy enough) to carry two devices with him everywhere - one for internet tablet and one phone/camera | 13:44 | |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: i've said it a couple of times at work | 13:44 |
| lcuk | timeless, i like the size (assuming my proto is same size) and with kb open it is natural to use both the screen and the keyboard | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | people will confirm i've said it | 13:44 |
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| ccooke | Android is a very good phone and a reasonable replacement for a tablet, but it's terrible as a camera and has limitations I really miss | 13:45 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 13:45 | |
| lcuk | liek a "fixed in fremantle" sticker? | 13:45 |
| timeless_mbp | i know tigert has managed to use the n900 camera to get good pictures | 13:45 |
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| ccooke | There are a few apps I'm going to have to try to recreate in Maemo, though. | 13:46 |
| ccooke | Anyone used the Android app Locale? | 13:46 |
| lcuk | oooh im mentioned http://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/index.php/2009/09/03/first-creative-application-of-n900 | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | what rock have you been hiding under? :P | 13:47 |
| * timeless_mbp rotfl | 13:48 | |
| Myrtti | +1 Stskeeps | 13:48 |
| ccooke | lcuk: of *course* you're mentioned :-) | 13:48 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, one where im working very hard lol | 13:48 |
| * timeless_mbp repokes Stskeeps | 13:48 | |
| lcuk | im coding now a whole list of mods | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: yes, i can test it now :P | 13:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | :) | 13:49 |
| * Stskeeps grabs rootsh | 13:49 | |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, i had to do that too | 13:49 |
| ccooke | Hmm | 13:49 |
| ccooke | What sort of API access is there to phone functions on the n900? | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | ccooke: dunno :) | 13:50 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: heh | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't think we've really promised open access to the phone | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i could be wrong | 13:50 |
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| Stskeeps | APIs? pft, who needs apis when you can move the earth with your device ;p | 13:50 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: surely there'll be a programmatic way of - say - sending an SMS | 13:50 |
| * lcuk facepalms | 13:50 | |
| lcuk | i have a profanity filter in the app | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | ccooke: not necessarily | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | sending an SMS w/o user confirmation is incredibly scary | 13:51 |
| lcuk | but it warns them they are swearing but doesnt stop em sending | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | especially in some markets where an sms can cost 4EUR | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | (finland?) | 13:51 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: *how* much? | 13:51 |
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| till- | i would prefer a global switch for cellphone activity notification | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | you can buy things by SMS in this country | 13:51 |
| till- | and confirmation | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | e.g. a tram ticket | 13:51 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: oh, sure. Same here. | 13:51 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: sorry, I misunderstood for a moment! | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: the current way to rip people off is by charging for receipts, heh | 13:52 |
| lcuk | brb, need bacon | 13:52 |
| timeless_mbp | ccooke: i skip over the details, straight to the bottom line | 13:52 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: *nod* | 13:52 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, i'm not really sure what is offered | 13:52 |
| timeless_mbp | ideally you should be able to open an SMS compose window w/ prefilled content | 13:53 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: Fair enough. I see I'll have to play around. | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | however i'm not certain if that exists | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | and even that is scary | 13:53 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: There are good use cases for sending an automatic SMS, though | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, i know | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | the n810 maps app had a way to use it for beacons | 13:53 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: I can give you several extremely good examples | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | (the strings there were incredibly shitty, but...) | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | ccooke: nah, not required | 13:53 |
| ccooke | *nod* | 13:54 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: so really, what's needed is a way for the user to authorise a particular app to send SMS. | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah | 13:54 |
| till- | maybe a white-list with "truested" numbers where sms can be send to without notification | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | but i don't think we have a framework for that in fremantle | 13:54 |
| ccooke | I think that could work. | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | and if hypothetically, harmattan were to have such a thing | 13:54 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: it could be built easily. | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm sure people would complain :) | 13:54 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: thing is, if you have root access to the phone you should be able to send SMS. GSM is not a difficult protocol. | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | in unix, doing that requires either proper acls or users/groups | 13:55 |
| * till- just imagines some sort of "virus" which sends such sms | 13:55 | |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: sudo. | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | till-: aren't there symbian things that do precisely that? :) | 13:56 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: it's not hard to run an app with a modified sudo wrapper. | 13:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | ccooke: ham :) | 13:56 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: ham? | 13:56 |
| timeless_mbp | hildon-application-manager, commonly "ham" | 13:56 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: oh, right | 13:56 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, it's definitely doable | 13:56 |
| timeless_mbp | and i think it's reasonable to assume some approach for doing it is under discussion at nokia | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | however, i don't think it was done for fremantle, and i don't know if it will appear in harmattan | 13:57 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: yes, but why bother waiting? I'd be willing to bet that I could knock up the backed for such a thing for my own use with little effort | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | well, i'm not going to stop you | 13:58 |
| ccooke | *grin* | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll just remind you about security concerns | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | the people @nokia are busy working on other things | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | or this for harmattan | 13:58 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 13:58 | |
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| ccooke | Knowing what Nokia are working on is always problematic | 13:59 |
| ccooke | They've generally chosen a good set of things, of course | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | so many things, so little time | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | i work for nokia | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | i have no idea what everyone's doing :) | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | yesterday i discovered a number of surprises | 13:59 |
| ccooke | Yeah, I know a couple of people who work for Nokia and I hear that a lot :-) | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | if you want a cool challenge, we have one available | 14:00 |
| ccooke | Oh? | 14:00 |
| * RST38h wants money. Is any available? | 14:00 | |
| timeless_mbp | it probably requires: 1. kernel hacking. 2. hal glue. 3. a bit of userspace near some media player (ukmp, whatever) | 14:00 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: i could toss up a bit for this, yes | 14:00 |
| timeless_mbp | probably 50EUR, but it really isn't enough to cover the basic pain | 14:01 |
| * ccooke bows out, if there's people wanting money :-) | 14:01 | |
| timeless_mbp | oh, and i'll toss in the relevant accessory too :) | 14:01 |
| ccooke | What's the problem, anyway? | 14:01 |
| RST38h | nah. | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | ccooke: oh, i doubt RST38h would actually take the offer | 14:01 |
| lardman | go on, you've got us hooked now :) | 14:01 |
| lcuk | till-, there was a recent report/thing about using iphone to bring down cell towers | 14:02 |
| lcuk | jussi thinks maemo hackers will do more! | 14:02 |
| lcuk | http://twitter.com/luovanto/status/2915994278 | 14:02 |
| Myrtti | um, I just installed dropbear ssh client to my N800... how the hell do I use it? should I reboot or something to make the device detect it's there, or is it installed by some other app name than ssh? | 14:02 |
| RST38h | lcuk: So, how do you do it? Find the sweet spot and bury iPhone there, wrapped in thermal blanket ? | 14:02 |
| lcuk | you could throw enough of em at it | 14:03 |
| lardman | that won't work as you need low level access | 14:03 |
| lcuk | but *gasp* we have root | 14:03 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Not sure about dropbear but the standard ssh does not seem to require reboot | 14:03 |
| jaska | connect explosives to iphone, tape iphone to celltower, run away, call iphone | 14:03 |
| ccooke | Myrtti: open up the terminal and type 'ssh' | 14:03 |
| lardman | no, low level with the GSM stuff | 14:03 |
| lcuk | yeah i know | 14:03 |
| Myrtti | ccooke: unsurprisingly, I did. | 14:03 |
| lcuk | we can only talk to the modem | 14:03 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: You install it, enter new root password, and get both client and server (the latter running) | 14:03 |
| ccooke | Myrtti: and you had an error message? | 14:04 |
| lcuk | and if the modem is written properly it should be impossible | 14:04 |
| Myrtti | -sh: ssh: not found | 14:04 |
| lcuk | hey lardman i got a usb broadband router from o2 | 14:04 |
| lcuk | £30 | 14:04 |
| lcuk | it came with a pay and go sim :) | 14:04 |
| lcuk | guess where it got rehomed ;) :D | 14:04 |
| Myrtti | fuck it, I'll install openssh | 14:04 |
| lardman | I use TalkTalk :) | 14:04 |
| lcuk | Myrtti, | 14:05 |
| lcuk | to run ssh for the first time | 14:05 |
| lcuk | reboot, or | 14:05 |
| lcuk | /usr/sbin/sshd | 14:05 |
| Myrtti | lcuk: I only wanted the client... | 14:05 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: dpkg-query -L <package> | 14:05 |
| Myrtti | oh well | 14:05 |
| lcuk | oh lol | 14:05 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: before you do the right thing (openssh), do dpkg-query -L | 14:05 |
| RST38h | Out of academic curiosity | 14:05 |
| lcuk | timeless, does your console now remember history correctly - at first and on this build it doesnt remember between sessions | 14:06 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 14:06 |
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| lcuk | using ssh | 14:07 |
| lcuk | whenever i restart sessino my 810 would remember last X commands | 14:07 |
| lcuk | this old (very!) buld i have here doesnt remember anything | 14:07 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 14:07 |
| timeless_mbp | doesn't seem to here | 14:08 |
| Myrtti | dbclient?! what happened to obvious appnames? | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | not sure if that's busybox being unhelpful | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | or a config thing | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | or ... | 14:08 |
| Myrtti | gah | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | Myrtti: obvious app names like eog? | 14:08 |
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| lcuk | Myrtti, they were removed in the update for pink_ponies | 14:09 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 14:09 |
| * timeless_mbp didn't know ham supported install from file | 14:09 | |
| lcuk | does anyone recognise the font in use on these screenies | 14:10 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liqbase_river.php?username=lcuk | 14:10 |
| lcuk | and do they have it on their system, and could you just do me a quick mockup screen if i asked | 14:10 |
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| * lcuk cannot wait for email | 14:10 | |
| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: I thought HAM was supposed to not have that ability in Fremantle? | 14:11 |
| timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: i think there's a difference between "ham features" and "red pill" | 14:12 |
| ccooke | lcuk: looks familiar. I could ask a couple of typophiles for you, if you like | 14:12 |
| timeless_mbp | and it looks like it moved to red pill | 14:12 |
| zerojayPC | hmm, k | 14:12 |
| lcuk | please, ive been asked to insert an intermediate "sending message, please wait" screen | 14:12 |
| lcuk | but havent had any artwork back yet | 14:12 |
| lcuk | (and its not the pictures of jacob or the sketches lol | 14:13 |
| ccooke | lcuk: specifically the font on the first row of screens? | 14:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: How do you use a font in your program without knowing how to at least get the name? :) | 14:13 |
| ccooke | (the "Move me", "Shake me" bit?) | 14:13 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, its artwork - sent over from psd | 14:13 |
| lcuk | i know nothing | 14:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ah | 14:13 |
| lcuk | i can just throw things around | 14:13 |
| lcuk | yeah ccook | 14:13 |
| lcuk | just something that isnt my default crappy thing :$ | 14:13 |
| ccooke | lcuk: Okay. Looks like the people I know are semi-offline, but I'll let you know when they reply | 14:14 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah. red pill supports install file | 14:14 |
| timeless_mbp | cute | 14:14 |
| lcuk | ccooke, ta - i mightv heard back in half hour, just wanting to tick it off my list | 14:15 |
| zerojayPC | nice | 14:15 |
| * lcuk still has 120301230123129823423 things to do | 14:15 | |
| lcuk | zerojayPC, :) yeah looks good with a bit of makeup on doesnt it | 14:15 |
| zerojayPC | lcuk: Red pill? | 14:16 |
| lcuk | oh lol | 14:16 |
| ccooke | lcuk: I hope any todo list app you write has bignum support, then | 14:16 |
| zerojayPC | :) | 14:16 |
| lcuk | lol ccooke yeah it should have | 14:16 |
| lcuk | at least if the number is long enough i know i can scroll smoothly to the end :) | 14:16 |
| * lcuk wishes he had the database working faster - the combined graffiti wall on the web looks so good | 14:17 | |
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| ccooke | lcuk: what DB is it? | 14:24 |
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| lcuk | ccooke, | 14:25 |
| lcuk | sqlite | 14:26 |
| ccooke | Ah :-/ | 14:26 |
| lcuk | i wrote it to use it, and when i filled it up it was 115mb | 14:26 |
| lcuk | and it was slower saving a new sketch into it that it is to upload to web | 14:26 |
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| ShadowJK | it's funny how review sites claim N810 can't run more than one app at the same time | 14:26 |
| lcuk | using data modem | 14:26 |
| lcuk | show em liqbase | 14:27 |
| ccooke | ShadowJK: er. They do? | 14:27 |
| zerojayPC | Yes, the Register does. | 14:27 |
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| lcuk | maybe its the visual app at once thing | 14:27 |
| zerojayPC | And also claims the N900 is a combo GSM/CDMA phone. | 14:27 |
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| ShadowJK | theinquirer also claims no multitasking on n810 | 14:28 |
| zerojayPC | It's pretty irresponsible. | 14:28 |
| ccooke | zerojayPC: you're expecting good journalism from the register and theinquirer?! | 14:28 |
| AStorm | their tech reports should die ;P | 14:29 |
| zerojayPC | ccooke: I expect good journalism from anyone that considers themselves to be journalists, yes. | 14:29 |
| ccooke | lcuk: Typophile says: "heh. A lot of the identifying letters aren't there. no numbers, no punctuation, no special characters, no G Q J" | 14:29 |
| lcuk | heh | 14:29 |
| ccooke | zerojayPC: I wish I lived in your world :-) | 14:29 |
| lcuk | yeah i know | 14:29 |
| lcuk | zerojayPC, i dont think the register or inquirer have ever thought of themselves as journos | 14:30 |
| lcuk | infact, BOFH could be modelled on their daily activities | 14:30 |
| zerojayPC | ccooke: If you don't expect good journalism from every journalist, you get nothing but shit from everyone. All you gotta do is expect it and if they don't give it to you, roast them for it. | 14:30 |
| ShadowJK | "Besides being quad band GSM phone, we've been told the N900 is also a quad band CDMA phone for accessing almost all North American networks. There is no other phone in the Nokia portfolio to date that has this vast rage of communications capabilities. Nokia hasn't made public whose chipset it has used for the phone functions of the N900, but it has worked in HSPA over the HSDPA variant for the much improved uplink speeds, which isn't even in their flag | 14:31 |
| ShadowJK | ship N97 model." | 14:31 |
| AStorm | ffs. HSPA is not CDMA. | 14:31 |
| ccooke | AStorm: it does not say that | 14:32 |
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| ccooke | it says "It has CDMA and they've also added HSPA" | 14:32 |
| Captain_Picard | nokia comming out with LTE next year | 14:32 |
| Captain_Picard | =) | 14:32 |
| AStorm | at most, it can be said it *uses* WCDMA | 14:32 |
| Captain_Picard | forget WCDMA and HSPA | 14:32 |
| AStorm | CDMA that means RSIM? | 14:32 |
| Captain_Picard | LTE is here | 14:32 |
| AStorm | except no operator supports it, so it's dead | 14:33 |
| AStorm | ;P | 14:33 |
| AStorm | oh, except Finland. | 14:33 |
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| Captain_Picard | not yet! | 14:33 |
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| AStorm | next year is still too soon | 14:33 |
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| AStorm | LTE needs hardware overhaul at the cells | 14:33 |
| AStorm | unlikely to happen so fast | 14:34 |
| AStorm | except where it's already there, like Finland | 14:34 |
| ShadowJK | Nobody is running LTE in finland either | 14:35 |
| ShadowJK | But some operators have applied for license to share 1800MHz (or was it 1900?) with GSM and LTE | 14:35 |
| AStorm | they don't advertise it, but the hardware is present at least | 14:35 |
| AStorm | oh BTW, LTE should use IPv6 | 14:35 |
| AStorm | otherwise it will be fairly pointless ;> | 14:35 |
| suihkulokki | wasnt 3g supposed to use IPv6 too? :P | 14:35 |
| ShadowJK | yeah it would, if the operators stopped being asshats. | 14:36 |
| AStorm | nah, 3G is not IP-based really | 14:36 |
| ShadowJK | Nokia has been a supported of IPv6 for ages. All their symbian phones have IPv6 support | 14:36 |
| ShadowJK | IPv6 improves battery life :) | 14:36 |
| ShadowJK | Also according to theinq; N900 has 24 hour always-on batterylife, twice that of N810 | 14:37 |
| ShadowJK | I think they use random number generator :) | 14:37 |
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| ShadowJK | AStorm, there's not even decent 3G coverage in .fi yet, let alone any LTE :) | 14:38 |
| ShadowJK | But the data plans are decent, atleast. | 14:38 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: that is idle lifetime | 14:40 |
| AStorm | possible. | 14:40 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah | 14:40 |
| ShadowJK | N8x0 idles 2 days or something on wifi | 14:40 |
| AStorm | since the biggest consumer is the display backlight... and that has been improved | 14:40 |
| ShadowJK | and my E75 does a couple of days idling on irc :P | 14:40 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: not with screen on. | 14:40 |
| AStorm | idling on irc? hardly possible, unless it uses EDGE with heavy power saving | 14:41 |
| AStorm | actually, it'd be a fairly smart modem to toggle techs | 14:41 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah only edge coverage here | 14:42 |
| Corsac | ShadowJK: 2 days on wifi with PM enabled | 14:42 |
| ShadowJK | in 3G coverage it does toggle between 3g and 3.5g | 14:42 |
| Corsac | ShadowJK: not all access point manage that :( | 14:42 |
| Corsac | (freeboxes, the wifi box used by one of the top french ISP, isn't PM friendly at all :/ ) | 14:42 |
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| AStorm | my Linksys WAG200 supports power saving | 14:43 |
| AStorm | but it's likely still not enough | 14:43 |
| AStorm | N810 and N900 should toggle transmit power dynamically | 14:43 |
| Corsac | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3481 | 14:43 |
| ShadowJK | Luckily ISPs here aren't providing wifi boxes (not many, atleast) | 14:44 |
| AStorm | (n810 doesn't, it always blasts 100 mW, just less often if PM is present) | 14:44 |
| ccooke | lcuk: On the font: It's not in the databases she has access to. Is it a nokia-specific trademarked font? | 14:44 |
| ShadowJK | AStorm, oh once I compared power use when sending a file from N810 to PC over wifi, with 100mW and smaller... there was hardly any difference in total power use.. | 14:44 |
| ShadowJK | most of the power goes elsewhere.. | 14:44 |
| ShadowJK | N810 power use at max wifi transmit speed is something like 1.5+ Watt. 0.1 vs 0.01 is relatively marginal :/ | 14:46 |
| AStorm | heh. | 14:47 |
| AStorm | true. | 14:47 |
| AStorm | I think SDHC and display backlight are the worst power consumers there | 14:48 |
| ccooke | It's the idle usage that matters | 14:48 |
| lcuk | ccooke, i dunno lol | 14:48 |
| * lcuk is not wise to such things | 14:48 | |
| ccooke | I've replaced an access point because it wouldn't use PM properly - our N810s would die without about 10 hours | 14:49 |
| lcuk | thanks for asking tho | 14:49 |
| AStorm | idle is not as important as you'd think... unless that idle means "connected and using minor webapps" | 14:51 |
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| AStorm | which would be e.g. weather, mail check, irc, idle IM | 14:51 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 14:52 |
| ccooke | AStorm: my n810 is never offline :-) | 14:52 |
| ShadowJK | with IPv6 the mail check could actually be imap idle | 14:52 |
| ccooke | well, apart from the tube or at work (where it's not allowed on the wifi) | 14:52 |
| ShadowJK | in reality with IPv4 all sorts of NAT crap means TCP sessions on survive only 10 seconds in worst case | 14:53 |
| ShadowJK | or was it 30 seconds | 14:53 |
| ccooke | There's a question I've been meaning to ask | 14:53 |
| ShadowJK | sending a keep-alive every 10 seconds for a day eats batterylife even if no emails were to arrived | 14:53 |
| ccooke | Anyone know if the Mail for Exchange on the n900 supports push email? | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | push? | 14:53 |
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| ccooke | timeless_mbp: As opposed to polling. | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | the settings don't seem to indicate it does | 14:55 |
| ccooke | Drat. | 14:55 |
| timeless_mbp | does that actually work well? | 14:55 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd imagine it'd result in lots of stuck network connections while traveling | 14:55 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: er... Most of the mobile world has been doing it for years now. | 14:56 |
| timeless_mbp | does most of the mobile world travel to iceland? :) | 14:56 |
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| ccooke | it works very well. | 14:56 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm told the cellular world sucks up there :) | 14:56 |
| SpComb | IPv6 will still have stateful firewalls... | 14:56 |
| ShadowJK | I get "stuck connections" on Saunalahti/Elisa in .fi when moving from 2G to 3G coverage :) | 14:56 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: it's sympathy w/ iceland :) | 14:56 |
| ShadowJK | but on DNA it's rock solid | 14:56 |
| ShadowJK | unfortunately dna doesn't even have edge coverage here :) | 14:57 |
| timeless_mbp | or fortunately? | 14:57 |
| ShadowJK | what do you mean.. | 14:57 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: I've never experienced a stuck connection dealing with push email. First time I used it on a phone was a SE k750 IIRC, but it wasn't new then. | 14:57 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: how do you know edge isn't the cause of the problem? :) | 14:57 |
| ShadowJK | heh | 14:57 |
| ccooke | (that was imap push support) | 14:57 |
| glass | timeless_mbp: it's rather stupid to say that no coverage is better than some | 14:58 |
| glass | which i suspect is the case? | 14:58 |
| timeless_mbp | glass: who said no coverage? | 14:58 |
| timeless_mbp | he said no edge. that doesn't imply no 2g | 14:58 |
| ShadowJK | timeless, right, when I'm out driving, when I get this problem on elisa, I also drive in and out of DNA edge and 3g coverage areas, and that works seamlessly :) | 14:58 |
| kirma | properly functioning NATs should really drop UDP connections only after half a minute or so, and TCP connections after two hours or something... or at least tens of minutes | 14:58 |
| glass | timeless_mbp: i'd think dna to have edge everywhere they got masts, or then they're using some stone age equipment | 14:58 |
| timeless_mbp | glass: low quality but consistently working coverage is better than variable coverage which gets stuck and requires something tantamount to a reboot | 14:58 |
| timeless_mbp | glass: ask ShadowJK .... | 14:59 |
| ShadowJK | glass, yeah most of their masts are gprs | 14:59 |
| ShadowJK | without edge | 14:59 |
| glass | urgh | 14:59 |
| timeless_mbp | glass: please don't assume i'm wrong | 14:59 |
| timeless_mbp | it's unfair to me | 14:59 |
| glass | dna should get off their butts then.. but i suppose thats not news | 14:59 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 15:00 | |
| * timeless_mbp goes off to screwer someone | 15:00 | |
| ShadowJK | Plus, all 3 networks basically have something like 99.9% gprs coverage, I took that for granted | 15:00 |
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| ShadowJK | (in saying no edge and not mentioning gprs) | 15:00 |
| AStorm | here, almost all have EDGE | 15:02 |
| glass | it's been a while since i've seen non-edge too, been on sonera for a while though(not my choice or money paying for it..) | 15:03 |
| AStorm | HSPA has more problems with reach (esp. in cities, woods or mountains, even if a mast is available) | 15:03 |
| ShadowJK | edge coverage seems to grow randomly, at approximately the rate ancient equipment breaks and is replaced by now :) | 15:03 |
| timeless_mbp | glass: hey, you speak Finnish, right? | 15:03 |
| glass | yeah | 15:03 |
| glass | rudely | 15:03 |
| timeless_mbp | how often do native Finnish speakers confuse First and Second person? | 15:03 |
| ShadowJK | Sonera has no edge within about 50km or so :) | 15:03 |
| timeless_mbp | or how easily do they do that? | 15:03 |
| glass | timeless_mbp: there's this thing called teitittely in finnish | 15:03 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't know that word :) | 15:04 |
| glass | timeless_mbp: which is basically some ancient remains of thou dost shit you see in ultima games | 15:04 |
| ShadowJK | huh | 15:04 |
| ShadowJK | I can't enumerate language, I need examples! :-) | 15:04 |
| glass | timeless_mbp: he/she gets confused quite often | 15:04 |
| kirma | first and second person are not the same as singular and plural | 15:04 |
| timeless_mbp | glass: that's third person | 15:04 |
| timeless_mbp | how about confusing "Me" and "You" ? | 15:05 |
| glass | timeless_mbp: you can be sinä, sä, te | 15:05 |
| glass | sä is not correct but is used quite often | 15:05 |
| timeless_mbp | i understand that finns are mostly gender free | 15:05 |
| timeless_mbp | which means that they have more chances to insult Poles | 15:05 |
| glass | timeless_mbp: and plenty of local dialects/slang thworn in | 15:05 |
| ShadowJK | confusing me and you? Ho do you do that | 15:05 |
| ShadowJK | how* | 15:05 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: that's my question :) | 15:05 |
| kirma | "sinä" in this case is rather a replacement for passive... or at least if it isn't, it doesn't make sense | 15:05 |
| suihkulokki | in polite finnish, one does not use "vittu" as comma and "perkele" as period | 15:05 |
| kirma | :) | 15:06 |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: the former is a curse | 15:06 |
| lcuk | there is so much language | 15:06 |
| lcuk | so verbose | 15:06 |
| glass | vittu is the fuck of finnish language | 15:06 |
| ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, now you just have to give us an example | 15:06 |
| glass | "ne vitun idiootit ei vittu oo taaskaan vittu tehneet niit juttui vittu" those fucking idiots haven't done stuff, again, fuck! | 15:07 |
| glass | rather "that stuff" | 15:07 |
| suihkulokki | timeless_mbp: the joke goes that the only way a finn was able to explain the widespread usage of those words to foreigner was they are used in place of comma and period in common speech | 15:07 |
| Macer | hm | 15:08 |
| lcuk | timeless, i mentioned before about rotating widgets | 15:08 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liqbase_mediareply.php?replyname=lcuk&replyid=185 | 15:08 |
| Macer | whattodowhattodo | 15:08 |
| Macer | hm. my artigo's bios isn't compatible with win7 it seems | 15:08 |
| Macer | wtf is so special with acpi that it REQUIRES it? :) | 15:09 |
| lcuk | drm isnt it | 15:09 |
| lcuk | full protected pathway ensuring no hypervisor (so i thought) | 15:09 |
| jaska | acpi? nah.. not drm | 15:09 |
| jaska | they just didnt want to support old-style configuration | 15:09 |
| glass | Macer: huh. did it refuse to install? | 15:10 |
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| Macer | glass: yes | 15:10 |
| Macer | got a blue screen | 15:10 |
| Macer | and a "not fully acpi compatible bios" msg | 15:10 |
| glass | crazy decisions | 15:10 |
| RST38h | glass: so, vit* is "fuck"? | 15:11 |
| Macer | wanted to put win7 on my artigo .. with its 1GHz C7 processor beast | 15:11 |
| jaska | vittu means cunt literally, but its used like fuck | 15:11 |
| RST38h | weird | 15:11 |
| glass | RST38h: fuck means fucking, as in making love. vittu doesn't, vittu as such "is" pussy but almost never used in that way | 15:11 |
| glass | as such it's just a word that sounds nice when swearing and or putting a point | 15:12 |
| glass | you can put a lot of emotional force on it | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: ping | 15:12 |
| RST38h | glass: Russians normally use male organs in this context | 15:13 |
| glass | "vittujen kevät ja kyrpien takatalvi" can be used when everything hits the fan. which in finland tends to be quite often | 15:13 |
| glass | "spring of pussies and extended winter of dicks" | 15:14 |
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| RST38h | Macer: Will he get reelected BEFORE his current term is up? =) | 15:17 |
| Macer | i mean when is enough.. enough? | 15:17 |
| ShadowJK | Macer, it's not about what level the dow is.. it's about jobs, jobs, jobs :) | 15:17 |
| Macer | RST38h: personally i don't think he has done a bad job | 15:17 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: not really | 15:17 |
| ShadowJK | and I don't mean Steve | 15:17 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Who mentioned Steve Jobs again in this channel? | 15:17 |
| Macer | cashing in on stock can make money ;) | 15:17 |
| Macer | just inflate it a bit and sell it | 15:17 |
| glass | problem with learning finnish is quite often that the book-finnish has quite often nothing to do with the finnish people actually speak | 15:17 |
| * Macer points at enron | 15:17 | |
| RST38h | Macer: Given the current cluster fuck, there is not much he can do | 15:17 |
| Macer | RST38h: well.. he doesn't really have to do anything | 15:18 |
| Macer | i mean when he got in it was rock bottom | 15:18 |
| derf | Macer: The vast majority of the US population does not own stocks. | 15:18 |
| Macer | so honestly he can just sit back | 15:18 |
| RST38h | glass: Hehe, try learning Ukrainian :) | 15:18 |
| Macer | by the time his term is up he can claim responsibility on a better economy | 15:18 |
| derf | And most of those that do own them in mutual funds in retirement accounts. | 15:18 |
| thresh | ukrainian is easy | 15:18 |
| glass | RST38h: i'd rather not :D whats ukrainian related to? | 15:18 |
| RST38h | glass: Then suddenly find out most Ukrainians speak slightly accented Russian. | 15:18 |
| thresh | just broken russian | 15:18 |
| Macer | clinton did it ;) | 15:18 |
| Macer | everybody loved clinton because times were good and the computer industry was in an absolute boom | 15:18 |
| glass | RST38h: actually on the russian side of the border theres small villages that speak sort-of-finnish | 15:19 |
| RST38h | glass: Written Ukrainian is a somewhat artifical language created by 3 bored intellectuals at the end of XIX century | 15:19 |
| glass | hah | 15:19 |
| Macer | RST38h: like klingon? :) | 15:19 |
| RST38h | glass: It merges all the dialects they could find, the problem is that they were all dialects of Russian :) | 15:19 |
| thresh | that's just not true | 15:19 |
| thresh | it wasnt invented in XIX | 15:20 |
| RST38h | Macer: Klingon is original :) | 15:20 |
| RST38h | thresh: Well, this is what Wiki seems to imply | 15:20 |
| * dottedmag requests the Zolotaryov and Siberian language to this channel! | 15:20 | |
| Macer | there is a siberian language? :) | 15:20 |
| RST38h | dottedmag: Only if we start with a human sacrifice to Perun | 15:20 |
| glass | what do they do in siberia for fun nowadays? | 15:20 |
| ShadowJK | Macer, several I'm sure | 15:20 |
| thresh | dottedmag: ohai | 15:20 |
| derf | glass: Leave. | 15:20 |
| Macer | glass: they move ;) | 15:20 |
| Macer | haha | 15:20 |
| dottedmag | thresh: preved | 15:20 |
| glass | haha | 15:21 |
| dottedmag | Macer: there are skams | 15:21 |
| Macer | skams? | 15:21 |
| dottedmag | glass: I'm damn sitting here in front of monitor. Not really fun. | 15:21 |
| Macer | is that a type of shellfish? | 15:21 |
| dottedmag | Macer: scams | 15:21 |
| RST38h | glass: Whoe republic of Mari El speaks sort of finnish | 15:21 |
| Macer | dottedmag: huh? | 15:22 |
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| Macer | capitalism is one big scam ;) | 15:22 |
| Macer | sell something worth less than someone else pays for it | 15:22 |
| glass | RST38h: if it's a whole republic it's not such pointless as a village with 50-100 people | 15:22 |
| RST38h | glass: And Komi too, or whatever is left of them anyway | 15:22 |
| dottedmag | Macer: read the history of Siberian wikipedia. They finally closed it fortunately. | 15:22 |
| RST38h | glass: And Mordovia | 15:22 |
| RST38h | glass: And Udmurtia, for that matter | 15:23 |
| Macer | oh. you mean siberian language :) | 15:23 |
| dottedmag | yep | 15:23 |
| Macer | i always just ifugred siberia was a part of Russia so people there spoke russian | 15:23 |
| thresh | of course they do | 15:23 |
| dottedmag | Yes, we do :) | 15:23 |
| Macer | heh | 15:23 |
| glass | vodka is vodka in any language | 15:23 |
| RST38h | Macer: "siberian" is a special case | 15:23 |
| thresh | they don't really look like proper humans, though | 15:23 |
| Macer | glass: haha | 15:23 |
| thresh | some of them have dog heads | 15:23 |
| dottedmag | And we all speak ISO-8859-5 | 15:24 |
| RST38h | Macer: There was a guy suggesting splitting Siberia off and he started by creating a language | 15:24 |
| thresh | as i've heard | 15:24 |
| ssvb | RST38h: or alternatively Russian language is a broken version of Ukrainian (result of the influence from Tatars when Russians were conquered by them), there is no point discussing this crap or take it serious | 15:24 |
| RST38h | ssvb: That won't fly, as there is no single dialect of Ukrainian | 15:25 |
| ShadowJK | Macer, Siberia is also where they dumped all the unwanted people. So there are hundreds of small communities isolated from the world with their own languages | 15:25 |
| dottedmag | BTW, regarding languages. | 15:25 |
| ShadowJK | iirc they're still discovering them today | 15:25 |
| dottedmag | where to look for input methods on incoming n900? | 15:25 |
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| RST38h | ssvb: The idea of a single proto-language from which they all developed is a valid one though | 15:25 |
| dottedmag | Are they adjustable? | 15:25 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: haha | 15:25 |
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| Macer | RST38h: all languages are derived from another... look at english. :) doesn't it have the same characteristics? | 15:26 |
| RST38h | dottedmag: Two input methods, full screen kbd and physical kbd | 15:26 |
| Macer | you find all types of different english dialects throughout the US alone | 15:26 |
| dottedmag | RST38h: well, I'm interested in physical keyboard layout | 15:26 |
| RST38h | dottedmag: rest is apparently dead unless you are willing to add your own | 15:26 |
| dottedmag | Is it plain old xkb? | 15:26 |
| RST38h | Macer: There is standard American English though | 15:26 |
| glass_ | problem with finnish currently is that there's people who want to keep it pure, which is a failure as it seriously hampers engineering discussions and even teaching them | 15:27 |
| Macer | RST38h: there isn't standard russian? | 15:27 |
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| RST38h | Macer: There is | 15:27 |
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| Macer | so what's the difference? | 15:27 |
| RST38h | Macer: But spoken Ukrainian varies so widely that you can't pin it down | 15:27 |
| Macer | most southerners in the US to not adhere to using standard english | 15:27 |
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| RST38h | Macer: There is written, literary Ukrainian, but it is kinda artifical | 15:27 |
| dottedmag | RST38h: spoken German too, who cares? | 15:27 |
| ShadowJK | keeping finnish pure is a pretty strange concept, when lots of linguists love finnish because it has absorbed (and preserved) so many words from other languages over the centuries :) | 15:28 |
| Macer | RST38h: language evolution | 15:28 |
| RST38h | dottedmag: Don't know much about German | 15:28 |
| Macer | shakespeare invented hundreds of words | 15:28 |
| RST38h | Did he? | 15:28 |
| Macer | sure did ;) | 15:28 |
| RST38h | Example? =) | 15:28 |
| * RST38h wasn't aware | 15:28 | |
| thresh | as well as Black Adder did | 15:28 |
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| Macer | http://piksels.com/words-invented-by-shakespeare/ | 15:29 |
| ShadowJK | As a funny sidenote, the guy who translated the Bible to finnish had to invent a word for "mercy" ;-) | 15:29 |
| RST38h | =) | 15:29 |
| Macer | so it might not be an "artificial" language.. simply the same language reinvented | 15:30 |
| Macer | which is very common | 15:30 |
| Macer | look at ebonic english for example | 15:30 |
| RST38h | macer: TORTURE? ASSASSINATION??? | 15:30 |
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| Macer | amazing huh? | 15:30 |
| RST38h | Macer: No, it is not reinvented | 15:30 |
| RST38h | Macer: absolutely | 15:30 |
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| Macer | sure it is | 15:30 |
| Macer | didn't we have this discussion before? :) | 15:30 |
| Macer | get enough people to call a tree a horse.. then a tree is a horse | 15:31 |
| RST38h | Macer: There are two discussions: if you mean Shakespeare, it is awesome | 15:31 |
| Macer | heh | 15:31 |
| Macer | i'm suprised you didn't know that ;) | 15:31 |
| RST38h | Macer: If you mean same language reinvented, it was not like that with Ukrainian | 15:31 |
| Macer | that is a tiny list | 15:31 |
| Macer | there are a lot of words he just made up | 15:31 |
| Macer | probably for poetic justice in some of his writings | 15:31 |
| RST38h | Macer: Multiple local dialects were gathered and the words were cherry picked from these dialects to create a synthetic language | 15:32 |
| RST38h | macer: Sorta like a local esperanto | 15:32 |
| Macer | RST38h: in abstract, one might say all languages are artificial ;) | 15:32 |
| RST38h | Macer: Wasn't evolution, wasn't reinvention, was rather a mashup. The result is not that bad btw, except that very few people speak it and every .UA nazi seems to be bent on changing it to his liking | 15:33 |
| Macer | which was my point with pointing out shakespearian invented words | 15:33 |
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| RST38h | Macer: Not meaning anything deep or philosophical, really | 15:33 |
| Macer | english is derived from multiple languages also, which evolved over years | 15:33 |
| Macer | words start out locally and spread, and if enough people use the word it is accepted into the culture | 15:34 |
| RST38h | Macer: Way different story with English | 15:34 |
| Macer | why? because it was more recent? | 15:34 |
| RST38h | Macer: Because English has not been created by 3 intellectuals 150 years ago | 15:34 |
| RST38h | Macer: It evolved as result of different people speaking it, then writing in it | 15:35 |
| Macer | just because english had more people to create it doesn't make the Ukrane language any different | 15:35 |
| Macer | as i said. if you get enough people to use the same words.. then it is just another language | 15:35 |
| RST38h | Macer: Again, we are not talking "less" people, we are talking of a finite countable number of 3 :) | 15:36 |
| Macer | the speed of its evolution is irrelevant | 15:36 |
| Macer | so... like klingon ;) | 15:36 |
| RST38h | Macer: Klingon is completely artificial though but yes, I see your point :) | 15:36 |
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| Macer | i still hold firm in every language being artificial | 15:37 |
| RST38h | Not really | 15:37 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: giving you an example requires me to pull out another phone | 15:37 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm too lazy to do that | 15:37 |
| Macer | i wish i could find an image of the painting that reminds me of this | 15:37 |
| RST38h | But there are some really funny examples, like Hebrew or modern Greek | 15:37 |
| Macer | i had this discussion in a humanities class where the painting was shown | 15:38 |
| Macer | it had proper words for things except a horse was called a door or something like that | 15:38 |
| lcuk | well thats the one im at | 15:38 |
| lcuk | shit | 15:38 |
| Macer | and the professor asked "why is it different?" | 15:38 |
| Macer | i told her "maybe in the artist's land.. a horse is called a door" | 15:39 |
| Macer | :) | 15:39 |
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| ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, ah. Nokia has mostly fixed that now IME :) | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | i have 5 phones w/ batteries easily accessible, 4 w/ sims | 15:40 |
| Macer | words are just accepted descriptions | 15:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd just need to get one of the two that aren't n900s | 15:40 |
| Macer | so all language is artificial ... the moon is called the moon simply because most people have agreed on a name for it | 15:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | Macer: yareach | 15:40 |
| ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, Oh. I thought you were ircing from s60v3fp0 and afraid of opening browser to find the example would kill the irc client ;) | 15:41 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, no | 15:41 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: hahaha | 15:41 |
| timeless_mbp | connecting to freenet typically causes my n81 to reboot | 15:41 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: that sounds more like android than symbian | 15:41 |
| timeless_mbp | _mbp = macbook pro | 15:41 |
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| Macer | android randomly closes apps running in the background to free memory | 15:41 |
| Macer | it is idiotic | 15:41 |
| ShadowJK | Macer, symbian kills stuff when you run out of RAM, and early S60 nokia phones were very RAM-starved :) | 15:42 |
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| Macer | ShadowJK: hm. my n95 never seemed to do that | 15:42 |
| ShadowJK | N95 has 128M RAM | 15:42 |
| ShadowJK | It's more of an issue on the ones where you've got 14M ram free with no apps at all open | 15:42 |
| usir | n810 is amazingly scratch resistant | 15:42 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: heh. yeah .. like android ;) | 15:43 |
| Macer | my G1 is notrious forthat | 15:43 |
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| Macer | mind you it has 192MB | 15:44 |
| glass | Macer: n95's ram situation improved a lot when they added on demand paging on fw update | 15:44 |
| kirma | N70 was nice otherwise... but it had 64M RAM or something. | 15:44 |
| kirma | E70 even | 15:44 |
| Macer | android is like the Vista of phones | 15:45 |
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| glass | n70 had the most(?) of 2nd ed devices of free ram, was sweet | 15:45 |
| ShadowJK | oh wait, it's only N95 8g that has 128M ram.. the non-8g version has less ram | 15:45 |
| kirma | that was pretty horrible in contrast to earlier S60s | 15:45 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: i had the n95-3 | 15:45 |
| kirma | I typoed, E70 I meant... | 15:45 |
| glass | i think -3 had the bigger amount of ram too, not sure(it's on forum nokia pages though..) | 15:45 |
| Macer | glass: got rid of it when i got rid of att | 15:46 |
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| glass | 3250 however, is the biggest crapper of all s60's | 15:46 |
| usir | does ovi have a reasonable pay-to-play drm? | 15:46 |
| Macer | bought a black housing for it and sold it to someone for $150 | 15:46 |
| Macer | if i could find a way to bankrupt att on purpose i would do it :) | 15:46 |
| Macer | i hate att so much | 15:46 |
| RST38h | Who likes AT&T? | 15:46 |
| glass | hehe | 15:46 |
| glass | Macer: gov would bail it i'm afraid :\ | 15:46 |
| RST38h | Aside from Darth Vader that is | 15:46 |
| Macer | RST38h: i guess a lot of people | 15:46 |
| Macer | glass: hahaha | 15:46 |
| RST38h | I can't think of any | 15:46 |
| Macer | yeah. we've given up on true capitalism since enron | 15:47 |
| usir | since 1913 | 15:47 |
| Macer | RST38h: well. they are still the largest ;) | 15:47 |
| RST38h | way before that | 15:47 |
| jaska | speaking of s60s... i need to go loot the camera sensor from the 6600 | 15:47 |
| glass | jaska: is it easily interfaceable, to say, atmega projects? | 15:47 |
| Macer | RST38h: no. deregulation of power was a step towards real capitalism | 15:47 |
| jaska | dont know yet.. its lowres tho (vga) | 15:47 |
| Macer | too bad we had corperate hitlers running the show with it | 15:47 |
| SpeedEvil | glass: no | 15:47 |
| glass | jaska: yeh but i got a 6600 somewhere stashed hehe | 15:48 |
| jaska | it was my first and last symbian/s60:) | 15:48 |
| SpeedEvil | glass: essentially all phone cameras use the SCCM (?) bus | 15:48 |
| Macer | man i loved my n95 cam | 15:48 |
| glass | SpeedEvil: ok, would be easier to write a prog for symbian that dumped the data then i suppose | 15:48 |
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| Macer | i wish i could have kept my n95 with tmob | 15:48 |
| Macer | but they had to use their crazy freq | 15:48 |
| glass | 6600 has ir too. hmm | 15:49 |
| SpeedEvil | glass: this has I2C - to setup the camera - which the micro can do fine. And then it has a parallel databus that you have to read fast enough to read the whole camera data out in 1/60th of a second. They don't have any onboard storage - and going slower than that will not give a picture | 15:49 |
| glass | okays | 15:49 |
| usir | in germany most phones can run on most networks, iirc | 15:49 |
| SpeedEvil | glass: very few small micros can read most of a megabyte in 1/60th sec | 15:49 |
| glass | in europe in most regions the operators played nice with others when choosing tech | 15:50 |
| Macer | glass: well. in the US they are all cut throat | 15:50 |
| Macer | i'm sure berkley is sad they allowed the gnu to come about | 15:51 |
| glass | yeh been following some usa mobilers | 15:51 |
| Macer | i just pray that the n900 is supported by tmob | 15:51 |
| RST38h | macer: cut customers' throat that is | 15:52 |
| Macer | if it's not i'm giving up on a phone altogether | 15:52 |
| Macer | RST38h: oh. that's all business ;) | 15:52 |
| glass | hehe | 15:52 |
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| Macer | some places aren't like that.. like usually newspapers work together | 15:52 |
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| Macer | they try not to step on each other's toes in order to keep sales stable | 15:52 |
| usir | i wonder what government regulatory structure incentivises this market failure | 15:53 |
| Macer | that's the only business i can think of though heh | 15:53 |
| Macer | usir: low pricing | 15:53 |
| Macer | and i don't really think it is the government regulatory structure | 15:54 |
| Macer | realisticailly, if the economy takes off and the government profits from its bail out money by selling shares for 2x their worth when bought. how much of that money do you think will truly make it into a tax cut? :) | 15:55 |
| * Macer is thinking none considering the country's debt | 15:55 | |
| usir | if you dont know the answer just admit | 15:55 |
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| Macer | misdirection didn't work huh? :) | 15:56 |
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| usir | smart guz :) | 15:56 |
| Macer | hahaha | 15:57 |
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| Macer | wasn't a term of the car bail out that manufacturing comes back into the US? | 15:57 |
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| Macer | and that unions were told to take a pay cut in order to cushion the car companies? | 15:58 |
| usir | Roosevelt killed 6 million pigs. Obama kills x million cars. Same stupidity, 80 years later | 15:58 |
| RST38h | For manufacturing to come back, USD should fall to 1/2-1/3 of its current value | 15:58 |
| usir | right | 15:58 |
| Macer | that seems like a good incentive for both the unemployed and companies | 15:58 |
| * RST38h would rather prefer USD to stay the same | 15:58 | |
| Macer | RST38h: i'm sure it will fall when china starts dumping dollars :) | 15:59 |
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| RST38h | Macer: Which means China can't start dumping dollars. | 15:59 |
| asj_wrk | no no the USD should fall like crazy, I'm about to leave the US and still have a mortage in USD ;) | 15:59 |
| usir | impossible with the human capitol in USA now rst | 15:59 |
| RST38h | usir: what? can't work at assembly lines? | 16:00 |
| usir | can not build much high tech with them. capitol investments can not zoeld high productivity | 16:00 |
| RST38h | or have you meant something else? | 16:00 |
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| usir | no, high eff. requires flexi workers. yes, usa can still do poor quality assembly line work | 16:00 |
| RST38h | Ahhhhahahahaha | 16:01 |
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| Macer | :) | 16:01 |
| Macer | that's rough | 16:01 |
| RST38h | Apple pulls iPhone C=64 from its store AGAIN! | 16:01 |
| Macer | usir: the global economy ;) | 16:01 |
| RST38h | They have found that you can still program in C=64 BASIC inside the emulator and THEORETICALLY use it to break iPhone | 16:01 |
| usir | heh nice | 16:02 |
| * RST38h facepalms | 16:02 | |
| Macer | RST38h: wow they sure are hellbent on preventing it huh? | 16:02 |
| Macer | is it that serious? :) | 16:02 |
| RST38h | Preventing what? :) | 16:02 |
| asj_wrk | the terms and conditions of the SDK says no 3rd party programming languages or something like that | 16:02 |
| RST38h | I mean, who in their right mind would come up with this scenario, BASIC running on artificial hardware and all? | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Unless there is a C64 app store | 16:03 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: hahaha | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Then you can upload your own c64 asm app | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | to the emulator | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | so basic doesn't matter | 16:03 |
| usir | i hope the initial responses on n900 are good enough to warrant future cheaper models soon | 16:03 |
| RST38h | usir: Q1. Fremantle based. | 16:03 |
| RST38h | user: Harmattan in Q3/Q4. | 16:04 |
| Macer | what is the cost in $ for an n900? | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | I hope the initial responses on the n900 are for many chinese vendors to start shipping phones. | 16:04 |
| RST38h | Apparent model numbers are RX-71 and RX-56 | 16:04 |
| asj_wrk | SpeedEvil: you maybe only able to get apps through the c64 emulator vendor, or so I'm guessing | 16:04 |
| Macer | i remmber the nokiaworld brief was in euros | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | MaceR: $699? | 16:04 |
| usir | thank you | 16:04 |
| Macer | oh | 16:04 |
| Macer | not too bad if it can deliver :) | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - that sounds right | 16:04 |
| AStorm | usir: I don't know how can it be made any cheaper except by cutting features | 16:04 |
| * Macer is reminded of the e90 | 16:05 | |
| Macer | fail | 16:05 |
| jaska | s60 on a communicator :( | 16:05 |
| usir | over time perhaps astorm | 16:05 |
| Macer | jaska: heh yeah | 16:05 |
| RST38h | AStorm: subtract keyboard, FM chip, GSM chip | 16:05 |
| RST38h | AStorm: cut mmc1 to 8GB | 16:05 |
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| RST38h | AStorm: cut camera to 3mpx | 16:06 |
| Macer | yeah, but then you'd have the poor man's N900 | 16:06 |
| AStorm | RST38h: and you'll end up with a useless junk phone? ;) | 16:06 |
| Macer | like a 6cyl mustang | 16:06 |
| RST38h | No, it will be LIGHT, every man's N900 | 16:06 |
| Komzpa | cut processor, ram and get n800 :) | 16:06 |
| AStorm | except it will be 1/3 as usable | 16:06 |
| RST38h | AStorm: No, as all the software will still be running | 16:06 |
| Macer | RST38h: like i said. the poor man's :) | 16:06 |
| SpeedEvil | cut mmc1 to 0 | 16:06 |
| usir | i suspect rst has a good plan | 16:06 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Yes it will cut down on some usage scenarios, but it won't be that bad. See cheaper version of 5800 | 16:06 |
| Macer | $700 for a phone that has as much power as a slower computer? i think it's worth it | 16:07 |
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| asj_wrk | rst is right, look at the 5320 or 5230 what ever it is, cheap at dirt 5800 | 16:07 |
| Macer | but maemo will have to be amazing | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Personally - cut mmc1 to 0 - add two SD slots - 640*480 4" or so display, lose the small camera, ... | 16:07 |
| RST38h | AStorm: To see Nokia having done it before, check out 7650/3650 and N95/following phones | 16:07 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Also look at 5800/5320, as asj says | 16:07 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: it has 2 cams? | 16:08 |
| RST38h | AStorm: You will easily see the pattern | 16:08 |
| Macer | heh | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | MaceR: yes | 16:08 |
| asj_wrk | a more interesting question though is, would you want to do that? if Maemo is the high end fancy device do you want to create a neutered version of it? That can kill a market since people tend to buy something cheap first they may get a bad taste for it. | 16:08 |
| Macer | if it has the 2 cam thing going on like the n95 | 16:08 |
| Macer | wow it would be awesome if i could use google video on it to see my son | 16:09 |
| RST38h | asj: it will actually extend the market | 16:09 |
| usir | google video does video chat? | 16:09 |
| RST38h | asj: again, see how it turned out on previous turns | 16:09 |
| Macer | usir: yeah | 16:09 |
| asj_wrk | RST38h: only if it's a truely good device on it's own though | 16:09 |
| Macer | browser plugin now only i believe | 16:09 |
| SpeedEvil | asj_wrk: I don't personally care if it has the nokia badge | 16:09 |
| Macer | i've used it. works well | 16:09 |
| RST38h | asj: Nokia throws expensive kitchen sink at early adopters/fans. Nokia watches carefully how that kitchen sink is being used. Nokia comes up with several mass-market devices that implement viable usage scenarios observed in step #2 | 16:10 |
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| asj_wrk | lol, now that's what I want, Ad block pro on my mobile browser :) | 16:10 |
| RST38h | asj: It will be a truly good device, at least when compared to S60 | 16:10 |
| asj_wrk | RST38h: gotcha | 16:10 |
| SpeedEvil | asj_wrk: I have no objection to nokia 'winning' - but if a chinese vendor sticks something nice out at half the price... | 16:10 |
| AStorm | Macer: $700 for a phone that has more power than eeePC | 16:10 |
| usir | anytime i see browser + high perfomance app (videoy) i want to puke blood | 16:10 |
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| Macer | AStorm: and probably lasts just as long on a single charge? | 16:10 |
| Macer | ;) | 16:10 |
| SpeedEvil | usir: No - think positive! | 16:10 |
| SpeedEvil | usir: make them puke blood! | 16:10 |
| Macer | probably longer | 16:10 |
| AStorm | yes longer, especially when idle | 16:11 |
| tigert | how long do eepc's go? | 16:11 |
| AStorm | 5h | 16:11 |
| SpeedEvil | tigert: 4h or so | 16:11 |
| Macer | well. i was thinking "in use" | 16:11 |
| tigert | the problem is, the more fun the device is, the less it is idle :P | 16:11 |
| SpeedEvil | tigert: lots more if you suspend | 16:11 |
| Stskeeps | impressive | 16:11 |
| Stskeeps | one day after company registration in .pl i already get spam | 16:11 |
| AStorm | suspend can be done on n900 as well... if it's not already there | 16:11 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: hahaha! | 16:11 |
| Stskeeps | and mail spam | 16:12 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps: .pl spam? | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | written with address in hand | 16:12 |
| AStorm | yeah :P | 16:12 |
| AStorm | those databases are almost transparent | 16:12 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: well. whatever you do don't give your bank acct # for your distant Nigerian price relative who left you in his will | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | i'm warsaw based now so :P | 16:13 |
| dottedmag | contact information of companies is public information, isn't it? | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 16:13 |
| asj_wrk | RST38h: well, I had a lot of hope for the N97, but s60v5 is such a mess, especially when programming for it. Symbian C++ feels like I backed up 10+ years, and capabilities just make it worse. It's sad. | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | still, that was quick | 16:13 |
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| Macer | well. time for me to unwind | 16:14 |
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| AStorm | Stskeeps: hiring? ;> | 16:21 |
| m3kyd | gimmie an n900 | 16:21 |
| m3kyd | plz | 16:21 |
| AStorm | m3kyd: buy one. | 16:21 |
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| Stskeeps | AStorm: one man company but one of my purposes is actually mobile development.. | 16:21 |
| AStorm | hehe | 16:21 |
| AStorm | subcontractor? | 16:21 |
| m3kyd | $650 and only in october! | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | subsub atm | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | right, back to hacking | 16:22 |
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| ccooke | I think I'm being a moron. Can someone point me at the latest fremantle API docs? I can't seem to find anything more recent than a few months ago | 16:24 |
| RST38h | asj: I still can't figure out how to do working settings lists on 5800 | 16:24 |
| RST38h | asj: and the direct screen access crashes when I rotate the damn thing | 16:24 |
| RST38h | asj: on the other hand, user experience is fine as far as I am concerned | 16:25 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: ping? | 16:25 |
| lcuk | yes fiferboy | 16:26 |
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| fiferboy | I've pushed an app to extras-devel, but I need someone to run it on a device... | 16:26 |
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| lcuk | fiferboy, unfortunately now isnt the time | 16:28 |
| lcuk | i would normally be happy to | 16:28 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Yeah, I wasn't sure if you would be able too | 16:28 |
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| fiferboy | I imagine you need your N900 in a pretty stable state right now | 16:28 |
| lcuk | hah | 16:28 |
| lcuk | its not that | 16:29 |
| lcuk | im still coding | 16:29 |
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| lcuk | liqbase is crashing left right and centre | 16:29 |
| lcuk | but im just gonna have to make do :) | 16:29 |
| lcuk | the onedotzero app is solid tho | 16:29 |
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| fiferboy | Ah | 16:29 |
| lcuk | and in their testing they havent mentioned anything | 16:29 |
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| fiferboy | Does anyone with an N900 want to test a new app? | 16:30 |
| lcuk | how about you testing liqbase-playground on your 810 for me | 16:30 |
| lcuk | and when i have 5 mins ill test yours | 16:30 |
| vesa | fiferboy: what kind? | 16:30 |
| fiferboy | vesa: A desktop applet | 16:31 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk: The version in extras-devel? | 16:31 |
| lcuk | yeah | 16:31 |
| lcuk | got updated last night | 16:31 |
| lcuk | might even have an icon now | 16:31 |
| fiferboy | vesa: It is called countdown-home, it allows you to display the time remaining (or passed) to different important dates you might have | 16:31 |
| vesa | fiferboy: you got a link somewhere? i haven't had much time to look at the device yet but i can ask how to install =) | 16:32 |
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| lcuk | lol fiferboy | 16:33 |
| lcuk | make a liq* version :P | 16:33 |
| lcuk | it would be simple | 16:33 |
| fiferboy | vesa: It is in extras-devel, so as long as you have that repo you can get it through the app manager | 16:33 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Can liq* do desktop applets? | 16:33 |
| lcuk | all liq* stuff are applets | 16:33 |
| lcuk | from full apps to silly screens | 16:33 |
| lcuk | everything is a plugin | 16:33 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Ah, yes | 16:34 |
| lcuk | when i compile them i produce 2 binaries | 16:34 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I'm install playground on my n810 now | 16:34 |
| lcuk | :D kewl | 16:34 |
| lcuk | it would be good to see how much i still respect optimal running :) | 16:35 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, when you get an n900 you will be blown away | 16:35 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I'll try to be brutally honest | 16:35 |
| lcuk | theres so much cpu available | 16:35 |
| lcuk | oh gawd | 16:35 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: IF I get a N900... | 16:35 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: dev program would likely be my only shot for a new device in the next few years | 16:36 |
| vesa | fiferboy: ooh, not too bad the ui here. i got the repo showing with no help. although it's now stuck on 'checking for updates, please wait' | 16:36 |
| timeless_mbp | fiferboy: i can try | 16:36 |
| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: That would be fantastic | 16:37 |
| * lcuk laughs | 16:37 | |
| lcuk | evily | 16:37 |
| timeless_mbp | fiferboy: please remember that you should provide a pretty name and an icon for your deb :) | 16:37 |
| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: If you could, could you send me a screen shot? I want to know what it looks like without the graphical glitches in scratchbox... | 16:37 |
| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: That will be in the next version :) | 16:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | so, the widget title is too wide, it effectively doesn't fit into the box | 16:39 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd suggest "Countdown" | 16:39 |
| vesa | fiferboy: whats the app called? | 16:40 |
| timeless_mbp | and make sure there's padding | 16:40 |
| fiferboy | vesa: countdown-home | 16:40 |
| vesa | ah, right. i'm blind =) | 16:40 |
| timeless_mbp | fiferboy: also | 16:40 |
| timeless_mbp | you're not really doing things the way we want them done | 16:40 |
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| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: Ok... | 16:40 |
| timeless_mbp | you're supposed to plug into this other thing | 16:40 |
| timeless_mbp | don't ask me how | 16:40 |
| vesa | fiferboy: screenshot utility, you know of one? | 16:41 |
| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: What is the other thing? Something that unifies the desktop? | 16:41 |
| fiferboy | vesa: I don't, unfortunately :| | 16:41 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: The liqbase icon show up! | 16:42 |
| lcuk | :D:D:D:D:D:D | 16:42 |
| lcuk | thats qwerty magic | 16:42 |
| esaym153 | is there an sshd package that makes it easy to start and stop sshd? | 16:42 |
| esaym153 | I don't want it running all the time | 16:43 |
| lcuk | why | 16:43 |
| timeless_mbp | esaym153: no :) | 16:43 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I saw the "thanks to qwerty :)" banner on install | 16:43 |
| esaym153 | :( | 16:43 |
| lcuk | :D | 16:43 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, his name is littered around | 16:43 |
| timeless_mbp | esaym153: it'd be fairly easy to write a control panel or widget to do that | 16:43 |
| lcuk | his knowledge of all things linux is immense and he has the hacker spirit :) | 16:43 |
| timeless_mbp | there might even be a more generic one for managing services | 16:43 |
| lcuk | (and when he reads this he will smile and blush) | 16:44 |
| esaym153 | will having sshd running all the time reduce battery life? | 16:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | not significantly | 16:44 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Is there a way to make liqbase run full-screen? | 16:44 |
| lcuk | yeah | 16:44 |
| lcuk | ~/.liqbase/liqbase.prefs | 16:44 |
| lcuk | add fullscreen=1 | 16:45 |
| lcuk | i wanted windowed mode for a video i was making | 16:45 |
| lcuk | but its a bit buggy | 16:45 |
| lcuk | and aspect ratio of strokes is a bit off | 16:45 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: That was going to be my next comment :) | 16:45 |
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| esaym153 | timeless_mbp: to make a script start sshd it would have to be root right? | 16:46 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liqbase_mediareply.php?replyname=lcuk&replyid=169 | 16:46 |
| asj_wrk | RST38h: well, if you could the double click/single click as incredibly annoying user experiance I think that alone is enough to drive anyone up the wall | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | you mean suid? | 16:46 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 16:46 | |
| timeless_mbp | depends on how those scripts work | 16:46 |
| lcuk | esaym153, or you could add to sudoers | 16:46 |
| vesa | fiferboy: it shows on the desktop. that's about how much it works =P | 16:46 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Drawing and scrolling look as smooth as ever | 16:47 |
| fiferboy | vesa: You can't configure it, or add events? | 16:47 |
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| asj_wrk | s/could/count/ | 16:47 |
| infobot | asj_wrk meant: RST38h: well, if you count the double click/single click as incredibly annoying user experiance I think that alone is enough to drive anyone up the wall | 16:47 |
| vesa | fiferboy: oh sorry, my date is all off on the device =P | 16:47 |
| asj_wrk | lol that's cute | 16:47 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, | 16:47 |
| lcuk | on the playground | 16:47 |
| lcuk | type "flow" | 16:47 |
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| lcuk | and open up liqflow :) | 16:47 |
| vesa | fiferboy: you can add dates, add the title and they show up | 16:47 |
| esaym153 | lcuk: by that you mean I would have to define the program location in sudoers right? I think I remember doing something like that before... | 16:47 |
| vesa | fiferboy: the background is full black though, not seethrough | 16:48 |
| lcuk | esaym153, im not a linux guy but yeah i think so | 16:48 |
| fiferboy | vesa: Thanks, that was one of the things I was wondering about | 16:48 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: SWEET! | 16:48 |
| lcuk | did you draw on it | 16:49 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: You bet I did! | 16:49 |
| lcuk | :D | 16:49 |
| vesa | fiferboy: the countdown time does seem to be correct =) | 16:49 |
| lcuk | with the accelerometer it also falls | 16:49 |
| lcuk | always to the ground | 16:49 |
| fiferboy | vesa: Something encouraging! | 16:49 |
| lcuk | no matter what orientation | 16:49 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I got it swirling in a sweet circle | 16:49 |
| lcuk | yeah its like a blackhole | 16:49 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I might leave my tablet like this until the battery dies! | 16:49 |
| lcuk | with the accelerometer the interactions are even more sweet because it introduces randomness | 16:50 |
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| lcuk | i do | 16:50 |
| fiferboy | vesa: Do the dialogs look correct? | 16:50 |
| vesa | fiferboy: removing a date, makes the widget size stay as before | 16:50 |
| vesa | ie. it doesn't resize to being smaller | 16:50 |
| fiferboy | vesa: Yes, I have to fix that. thanks | 16:50 |
| vesa | fiferboy: yeah, they look right | 16:50 |
| esaym153 | ok so now, should I used the dropbear sshd or the openssh sshd? | 16:50 |
| fiferboy | vesa: What about adding more than three events? | 16:50 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes fiferboy | 16:51 | |
| msh_ | esaym153: dropbear, of course :) | 16:51 |
| msh_ | (I may be biased) | 16:51 |
| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: Yes? | 16:51 |
| esaym153 | yea I am thinking dropbear too | 16:51 |
| timeless_mbp | see /query | 16:51 |
| timeless_mbp | i gave you a bunch of bits of feedback | 16:51 |
| vesa | fiferboy: you get big buttons to the right for scrolling | 16:51 |
| vesa | passed events work too =) | 16:52 |
| msh_ | esaym153: actually not sure there'll be that much diff in size. though depends how crammed the device is | 16:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | fiferboy: i wouldn't use "passed", you might use "overdue" | 16:53 |
| timeless_mbp | or "ago" | 16:53 |
| timeless_mbp | depending on your goal | 16:53 |
| esaym153 | does the dropbear ssh client have scp? | 16:54 |
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| esaym153 | or is that just an openssh thing? | 16:54 |
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| * mgedmin always used openssh on his tablets because he was afraid there *might* be features missing in dropbear | 16:56 | |
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| timeless_mbp | fiferboy: "Refresh*" ... "*requires restart to take effect" | 16:56 |
| timeless_mbp | restarting *what* ? | 16:56 |
| timeless_mbp | also, "Countdown Global Settings"... | 16:56 |
| timeless_mbp | I'd probably write "Global Countdown Settings" | 16:56 |
| timeless_mbp | (don't ask me why) | 16:57 |
| RST38h | What is the point in using dropbear anyway> | 16:57 |
| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: Actually, it doesn't require a restart any more, I'll have to change that line | 16:57 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 16:57 |
| timeless_mbp | personally, i'd also change it to something like: | 16:57 |
| timeless_mbp | Update Every [ 1 minute ] | 16:58 |
| timeless_mbp | where the time is part of the number | 16:58 |
| timeless_mbp | and you have no label in the widget | 16:58 |
| esaym153 | RST38h: I think it is just smaller, hopefully it will use less cpu cycles when transfering too... | 16:58 |
| timeless_mbp | using shrunken text is mostly annoying | 16:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | also, please kill the accelerators on "OK" | 16:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | they're an eyesore :) | 16:58 |
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| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: Gotcha, thanks | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | um | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | you crashed hildon-home | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | i think | 16:59 |
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| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: On remove? | 17:00 |
| timeless_mbp | approximately | 17:00 |
| usul | there times when i could be presented with a team of professional ladies in a state of undress, and i would easily prefer playing javispedro's DrNokSnes Super Nintendo emulator | 17:00 |
| timeless_mbp | perhaps you didn't kill your timer before you removed your widget | 17:00 |
| timeless_mbp | fiferboy: if you want someone to grovel for a stack trace, that could be arranged | 17:00 |
| timeless_mbp | but i'd sooner do something else :) | 17:00 |
| timeless_mbp | hildon-home-6C3E-11-1079.rcore.lzo | 17:01 |
| timeless_mbp | that'd mean something to someone @nokia | 17:01 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 17:02 |
| timeless_mbp | your description has too many hard line wraps | 17:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | and your category is bad :) | 17:02 |
| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: I do a "g_source_remove" on the timer id, but it might be coming too late | 17:02 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 17:02 | |
| wazd | lcuk: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/08/video-high-res-image-enlargement-tech-for-ps3-and-psp-takes-ext/ | 17:02 |
| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: I do it on the hitem destroy dignal | 17:02 |
| timeless_mbp | if you want to find out, ask sp3000 or someone to look up the stack :) | 17:03 |
| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: Thanks. Also, do we not need to hard wrap the description for the app manager? | 17:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | ham should be responsible for dealing w/ line wrapping in the long description field, i think | 17:03 |
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| fiferboy | Excellent | 17:04 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll let someone correct me if i'm terribly wrong | 17:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | i think debian says that your description lines should be ~78 chars long | 17:04 |
| timeless_mbp | so yes you should wrap, but nowhere near where you're doing it | 17:04 |
| timeless_mbp | and someone should remind me to shoot ham for using such a small font | 17:04 |
| timeless_mbp | rootsh's description is slightly better than yours | 17:05 |
| timeless_mbp | for now, assume it's doing things properly | 17:05 |
| timeless_mbp | and follow its example | 17:05 |
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| fiferboy | timeless_mbp: Thanks | 17:06 |
| * timeless_mbp bangs head | 17:06 | |
| timeless_mbp | someone should probably tell the getting starting wizard people that their debian description is visible | 17:07 |
| timeless_mbp | ... and that the n900 is not an internet tablet ... | 17:07 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: hey, Belfast just made BBC :) | 17:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyone here familiar w/ the package promotion ui? | 17:08 |
| sp3000 | hm? | 17:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh, there was a couple hundred pound explosive somewhere nearby | 17:10 |
| timeless_mbp | which they defused | 17:10 |
| ShadowJK | timeless, do people in suits and dark shades come and stare at you and "educate" you it's a "mobile computer"? :) | 17:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | that clearly don't do a very good job | 17:10 |
| fiferboy | sp3000: timeless_mbp mentioned that you may be able to look up a stck trace for me? | 17:11 |
| fiferboy | sp3000: hildon-home-6C3E-11-1079.rcore.lzo | 17:11 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: fiferboy: Debian packaging standard says that lines should be wrapped in the Description: field in debian/control. There's a HAM bug where it does its own wrapping on top, without unwrapping the field first. | 17:11 |
| sp3000 | a bit later | 17:11 |
| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: glory | 17:11 |
| fiferboy | sp3000: Thanks! | 17:11 |
| * sp3000 heads out for a run, hopes it doesn't rain too much | 17:11 | |
| timeless_mbp | since the owner of the tutorial didn't get the memo | 17:11 |
| fiferboy | Jaffa: Good to know | 17:11 |
| fiferboy | lbt: ping? | 17:12 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: fiferboy: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5076 | 17:12 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, if people are worried about travel to summit | 17:12 |
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| lcuk | i think im just about to get a ticket now to go to london | 17:12 |
| lcuk | leaving in about 2 hours | 17:12 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: I'll wave as my train goes past you in the opposite direction at about 18:45 ;-) | 17:12 |
| lcuk | haha | 17:13 |
| lcuk | its gonna be manic tho | 17:13 |
| lcuk | rushhour out of manchester.. | 17:13 |
| lcuk | well | 17:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Jaffa: You mean that you *willingly* go up north? :) | 17:13 |
| lcuk | i suppose it is worse for you lol | 17:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyone know the author of "belltower" ? | 17:14 |
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| lbt | fiferboy: pong | 17:14 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: I know you have been busy, but have you looked at my finger scroll changes? | 17:15 |
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| lbt | ummm | 17:15 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N810: Only every day when I'm going home ;-p | 17:15 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N810: London sucks | 17:15 |
| lbt | "Fix for the "Infinite Oscillation" bug in finger scrolling" | 17:16 |
| lbt | ? | 17:16 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Jaffa: Lies... there's a reason why I'm not up north anymore :p | 17:16 |
| fiferboy | lbt: In my clone I have a "fs-exp" branch that fixes a bunch of bugs and makes the overshoot a bit more logical | 17:16 |
| lbt | ah... url? | 17:17 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: I don't know him but he seems to be on some IRC channels with the nick of "marnanel" | 17:17 |
| fiferboy | lbt: It kind of seemed to me that overshoot was smoother on my N810, but it could have been complete placebo | 17:17 |
| lopz | hi | 17:17 |
| lbt | fiferboy: I just started on this again over the last day or so | 17:17 |
| lbt | you probably saw on the list | 17:17 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Yes. | 17:17 |
| * lbt hates gcc and co | 17:17 | |
| fiferboy | lbt: It looks like Antonio has some nice changes coming up for fremantle | 17:17 |
| lbt | *nod* | 17:17 |
| fiferboy | lbt: http://qt.gitorious.org/~fiferboy/qt/fiferboys-clone/commits/exp-fs | 17:18 |
| fiferboy | lbt: The lack of hildon-stackable-window was very noticable in my application | 17:18 |
| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: so how exactly does this promotion stuff work? | 17:18 |
| timeless_mbp | i keep trying to click on a thumb, and it feels like nothing happens | 17:19 |
| lbt | fiferboy: yes, I'm rebuilding shopper too and it looks/feels good | 17:19 |
| lbt | the current scroll is working really well on Diablo too | 17:19 |
| lbt | and I have merged Gesture support into it too | 17:19 |
| fiferboy | lbt: The parentless dialog thing is a bit annoying in some cases | 17:19 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Gesture support into the finger scrolling patches? | 17:20 |
| lbt | so you can select/delete using a stroke and the like | 17:20 |
| lbt | sorry, not into | 17:20 |
| lbt | alongside - compatible | 17:20 |
| lbt | phone - back in a bit | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | mm, anyone know any good tools to diff two .c files which has been indented in different ways? | 17:21 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders how transmission got negative karma | 17:21 | |
| timeless_mbp | diff -w ? | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, maybe | 17:22 |
| thp | Stskeeps: run the tool 'indent' on both and then diff normally? | 17:22 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: easily... that build sucks | 17:22 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: that seems to have done the trick, ta | 17:22 |
| RST38h | "Windows 7 reintroduces remoted BSOD" | 17:23 |
| RST38h | heh | 17:23 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: It's possible that the thumbs on the promotion page suffer from the same "don't give any feedback until the AJAX call completes" problem as /news/ | 17:23 |
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| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: sounds right | 17:41 |
| Jaffa | ~seen X-Fade | 17:47 |
| infobot | x-fade is currently on #maemo (18h 17m 54s), last said: 'timeless_mbp: Walk over to Ed.'. | 17:48 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, i couldn't find ed | 17:48 |
| timeless_mbp | i found his office, but it was empty | 17:48 |
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| * Jaffa wonders where X-Fade is: can't send out the summit approvals cos of a 500 server error :( | 17:48 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | Jaffa: I smell a conspiracy... | 17:49 |
| VDVsx | me too ;) | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | they took the sponsorship budget and went on a trip around the world? ;) | 17:50 |
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| VDVsx | Stskeeps, not a bad idea ;) | 17:51 |
| RST38h | Sts: Do not give 'em any wrong ideas =) | 17:52 |
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| lardman | server error because the signal's not too strong on the average deserted tropical island beach? | 17:58 |
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| lcuk | is there a version of xchat for fremantle | 18:01 |
| lcuk | hi javispedro | 18:01 |
| javispedro | afternoon | 18:01 |
| Jaffa | lardman: N900 manufacturing defect ;-) | 18:01 |
| * lcuk shits bricks | 18:01 | |
| javispedro | ohmy, #maemo logs are broken again | 18:01 |
| lardman | :) | 18:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, think there's a Diablo version in Extras you can use. | 18:02 |
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| lcuk | thanks gen | 18:03 |
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| mgedmin | what, somebody broke the logs again? | 18:06 |
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| mgedmin | povbot: are you there? | 18:07 |
| povbot | mgedmin: Error: "are" is not a valid command. | 18:07 |
| mgedmin | javispedro: please state your complaint about #maemo logs a bit more clearly | 18:07 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: ah, sorry. Today's log is not there. | 18:08 |
| mgedmin | the logging bot was down half last week due to an unfortunate server misconfiguration problem | 18:08 |
| javispedro | There being http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | 18:08 |
| mgedmin | hmm... you're right | 18:08 |
| mgedmin | looks like the log -> html cron script is not working | 18:08 |
| * mgedmin investigates | 18:08 | |
| javispedro | ta | 18:08 |
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| mgedmin | there, all fixed | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | javispedro: thanks for the heads up! | 18:12 |
| javispedro | no, thanks to you for the service :) | 18:13 |
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| Wooly | lardman: ping | 18:34 |
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| lardman | damn, missed him again | 19:03 |
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| * GeneralAntilles waits impatiently for a phone call. | 19:08 | |
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| * lardman wills people to phone GeneralAntilles | 19:11 | |
| lcuk | tracy is driving to london on sunday morning, could one of you guys help her to reflash tablet when she asks | 19:11 |
| lcuk | byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee | 19:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: do one better: ring GeneralAntilles yourself ;) | 19:11 |
| * lardman hopes this tablet is not the vital link in the Sat presentation..... | 19:11 | |
| lardman | qwerty12_N810: yeah, was just Googling the likely sites to find his number ;) | 19:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | adultfriendfinder? | 19:12 |
| * qwerty12_N810 ducks | 19:12 | |
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| lardman | qwerty12_N810: I was thinking more the list you made from the London phonebox adverts | 19:12 |
| lardman | though they may not exist any more :) | 19:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stop dashing my hopes like that :( | 19:13 |
| lardman | I had a friend who covered his wall at school with ads he'd taken down from phoneboxes, became a challenge to cover every square inch | 19:14 |
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| thp | X-Fade: here? | 19:15 |
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| lardman | ~curse residues | 19:18 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, residues ! | 19:18 |
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| lardman | hmm, that may sound bad, I'm thinking of loop phase residues of course | 19:18 |
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| GAN800 | lardman, Apple Customer Relations rep specifically. ;) | 19:27 |
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| Wooly | lardman: ping | 19:28 |
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| lardman | Wooly: hi | 19:32 |
| lardman | did you get my email? | 19:32 |
| lardman | probably not :) | 19:32 |
| Wooly | I did not, what email address did you send it to? | 19:32 |
| lardman | The computer you logged in from | 19:32 |
| lardman | probably some sysadmin at Strathclyde wondering who Wooly and lardman are :) | 19:33 |
| Wooly | haha | 19:33 |
| Wooly | more than likely :D | 19:33 |
| lardman | I was just wondering if you had those batoo Python bindings handy? | 19:33 |
| Wooly | stephen.bell@strath.ac.uk | 19:33 |
| Wooly | for future reference :D | 19:33 |
| Wooly | I will do, in around a half hour? | 19:33 |
| Wooly | I'm still in work, but heading home asap | 19:33 |
| lardman | thanks | 19:33 |
| Wooly | oh no, wait. I've got my laptop in with me | 19:33 |
| Wooly | should be able to forward them on now | 19:34 |
| lardman | yeah no rush, in fact I may go another route now anyway, but might be useful | 19:34 |
| Wooly | what's the other route? | 19:34 |
| lardman | well zbar 0.8 (which has derf's QR support) has too many false positives, so until 0.9 gains QR support I thought I'd combine derf's QR, the batoo for EAN 1D and libdmtx with a little C wrapper, then wrap that with Python | 19:35 |
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| Wooly | cool | 19:35 |
| Wooly | unfortunately, I've not had the chance to actually test these batoo bindings | 19:35 |
| Wooly | what is it you need, as I've forgotten what I actually did :D | 19:35 |
| lardman | oh just the bindings if you've got them, so I can see how they are done | 19:36 |
| lardman | or did you use SWIG? | 19:36 |
| Wooly | I used SWIG | 19:37 |
| lardman | ah ok, well no worries then, I may as well use that too as my interface will be different | 19:37 |
| Wooly | they're not on my laptop unfortunately, but I know where they are, on scratchbox at hom | 19:37 |
| Wooly | e | 19:37 |
| Wooly | that's fine | 19:38 |
| Wooly | home time, I'll forward the stuff I have on anyway if you pass on an email address :) | 19:38 |
| lardman | cheers | 19:38 |
| lardman | s dot g dot pickering at bath dot ac dot uk | 19:38 |
| Wooly | oh yeah I forgot you were at bath | 19:39 |
| Wooly | what department are you in again? | 19:39 |
| lardman | us academics hey :) | 19:39 |
| lardman | mech eng | 19:39 |
| Myrtti | soup ♥ | 19:39 |
| Wooly | ahh cool :) | 19:39 |
| Wooly | i know a few of the folks from cs through working on this PhD | 19:39 |
| lardman | I'm afraid I don't, through and through engineer :) | 19:40 |
| Wooly | haha | 19:40 |
| Wooly | alright, it's TODO'd | 19:41 |
| Wooly | I'll forward them on when I'm in from work | 19:41 |
| Wooly | tata! | 19:41 |
| lardman | thanks! bye | 19:41 |
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| * ccooke considers... As an interested user, is there any point going to the Maemo summit? | 19:49 | |
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| ccooke | It looks like I have (tons of) holiday left this year, so it's quite doable. | 19:49 |
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| mojocafe | hi everyone :) | 19:52 |
| mojocafe | i am searching for someone with a n810 to test out the new mojocafe mojos... anyone willing to ? | 19:52 |
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| Jaffa | ccooke: Yes. There's a track dedicated to users. There's a party. There'll be lots of geeks and you can feel superior with non-geeky inter-personal skills? | 19:54 |
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| mojocafe | hey tiago... portugal ? | 19:56 |
| rmt | ccooke, Of course there's a point - it's in Amsterdam!! | 19:57 |
| rmt | ccooke, Grab a joint and a beer (preferably belgian) and enjoy! | 19:57 |
| mojocafe | rmt: lol | 19:58 |
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| mojocafe | rmt: you own an n810 ? | 19:58 |
| rmt | mojocafe, I own an N810. | 19:58 |
| mojocafe | rmt: would you like to test something out for me 1? | 19:58 |
| sp3000 | fiferboy: so the stacktrace doesn't say too much because it dies where it has no symbols | 19:59 |
| fiferboy | sp3000: Thanks for looking into it. I think I have found the problem, I'm just testing it now | 19:59 |
| sp3000 | Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. #0 0x40af8dcc in ?? () from /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/lib-countdown-home-widget.so #1 0x41174dd8 in pthread_setspecific () from /lib/libpthread.so.0 #2 0x00000000 in ?? () | 19:59 |
| mojocafe | rmt: i just want to know if the flash lite version of the mojocafe works on the n810 | 19:59 |
| fiferboy | sp3000: For the record, I was removing my timer too late, I was trying to do it after the object was already destroyed... | 19:59 |
| sp3000 | heh | 20:00 |
| fiferboy | Yup, just tested it and it is working now. | 20:00 |
| fiferboy | sp3000: Thanks for checking for me | 20:00 |
| sp3000 | np | 20:00 |
| mojocafe | rmt: no time ? shall i ask someone else ? | 20:01 |
| rmt | mojocafe, Little pushed today.. | 20:01 |
| mojocafe | rmt: aight no problem. thanks. | 20:01 |
| rmt | Is it just a URL? | 20:01 |
| mojocafe | yes | 20:01 |
| mojocafe | http://m.mojocafe.net | 20:01 |
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| mojocafe | and then enter 30-pcww as code .... | 20:03 |
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| rmt | Really wish the 810 had more memory | 20:04 |
| * rmt is waiting for things to swap in & out. | 20:06 | |
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| mojocafe | rmt_ do you mean that it does not work ? | 20:11 |
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| Myrtti | my irc is broken - nobody says a thing | 20:21 |
| wazd | yeah, mine too | 20:21 |
| rmt | Not mine. | 20:21 |
| SpeedEvil | my irc is broken - nobody says a thing | 20:22 |
| Jaffa | My IRC's cool, it blots out my password: ********* | 20:22 |
| wazd | o really? Let me try! ihatejaffa | 20:23 |
| wazd | :D | 20:23 |
| Jaffa | :-p | 20:23 |
| Jaffa | Hey, that's my password - and it wasn't blanked out here | 20:23 |
| wazd | Jaffa: oops :) | 20:23 |
| ccooke | Jaffa: (just back after a meeting, so reading backlog): Yeah right. I'm a sysadmin. Non-geeky personal skills aren't an option ;-) | 20:24 |
| Jaffa | ccooke: Ah, BOFHs are even worse than devs ;-) | 20:24 |
| Jaffa | Anyway, more the merrier | 20:24 |
| ccooke | Naturally. I mean, devs aren't encouraged to believe that they can take over the world. | 20:25 |
| Myrtti | raspberry tea ♥ | 20:25 |
| ccooke | I'm a user of the Nokias because... well... I'm a sysadmin. The coding I do is backend stuff: Elegance happens only in structures, not in interfaces | 20:25 |
| ccooke | And that's not the sort of thing that's needed much :-) | 20:26 |
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| * RST38h moos | 20:29 | |
| RST38h | Myrtti: blackberry tastes better | 20:29 |
| ccooke | I had some quince tea a while back - that was lovely | 20:30 |
| ccooke | (but that was black-tea-with-quince; possibly not what you're referring to :-) | 20:30 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: all tea is lovely, lovely is all tea | 20:30 |
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| RST38h | Hehe | 20:32 |
| wazd | "Elegance happens only in structures, not in interfaces" - that's why 80% of OSS software looks like crap I suppose :D | 20:33 |
| RST38h | making good interface is difficult and does not bring you lulz | 20:34 |
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| RST38h | But both Gnome and KDE feature relatively good UIs, so I do not see why you only count them as 20% =) | 20:34 |
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| wazd | elegant interface = good structure | 20:34 |
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| wazd | RST38h: Gnome/KDE is like hildon | 20:35 |
| RST38h | i.e.? | 20:35 |
| asj_wrk | individual applications within gnome/kde have varying levels of UI success | 20:35 |
| ccooke | wazd: You're right, but in this case I'm referring to UI (not API/etc, if you meant that too :-) | 20:36 |
| wazd | RST38h: it's nice, until someone tries to make something with it :) | 20:36 |
| ccooke | wazd: A large part of the problems with OSS UIs is people thinking they're good at UI development when they're not. I prefer to admit upfront that I'm not good at it :-) | 20:36 |
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| * ShadowJK 's UI consists of a series of scripts | 20:37 | |
| asj_wrk | ccooke: I'm not sure that's true, all OSS I write is to solve some missing app. I'm not good at UI and I know it, but unless someone who's good at UI cares it'll never get touched. | 20:37 |
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| RST38h | wazd: both are quite harmless api-wise | 20:38 |
| ccooke | asj_wrk: oh, sure. I'm definitely not saying that everyone who codes a UI is bad at it - just that I've seen many who *think* they are and *aren't8 | 20:38 |
| RST38h | wazd: You want evil, try Motif or tk/tcl | 20:38 |
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| ShadowJK | rst38h: as a user I like. fast smooth and light | 20:39 |
| ccooke | asj_wrk: (I'll also code UIs for things... and wish that I were good at it. It's always a problem) | 20:39 |
| wazd | RST38h: I don't want evil, nono :D | 20:39 |
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| asj_wrk | ccooke: people also complain a lot about UI on OSS, but sadly a lot of small company commerical software has huge UI issues too. Just saying. :) | 20:40 |
| ccooke | asj_wrk: Agreed :-) | 20:40 |
| ccooke | asj_wrk: same problem, I think | 20:40 |
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| asj_wrk | ayup :) | 20:41 |
| RST38h | Shadow: What? Motif? | 20:41 |
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| RST38h | (and S60 for ultimate evil) | 20:42 |
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| ccooke | RST38h: motif and tcl/tk, running on S60? | 20:43 |
| ccooke | *ewww* | 20:43 |
| asj_wrk | I'm kinda hoping Qt for S60 might help there...dunno is that too much to ask? | 20:43 |
| RST38h | Qt for Symbian you mean | 20:44 |
| asj_wrk | sorry | 20:44 |
| RST38h | Because "S60" is just another name for Avkon toolkit | 20:44 |
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| RST38h | There is also Eikon (the original toolkit from Symbian), it would be interesting to see what part of it is retained when moving to qt | 20:44 |
| asj_wrk | what feature/functions does Eikon provide? just roughly | 20:46 |
| RST38h | Eikon is basically X11/Xutil | 20:46 |
| RST38h | + some Xt (simple dialogs, etc) | 20:46 |
| asj_wrk | ah ok, not sure how that would mesh into the Qt event loop...? | 20:47 |
| RST38h | Avkon is like a full UI toolkit on top of Eikon | 20:47 |
| ccooke | Hmm | 20:47 |
| RST38h | asj: Eikon ha got its own event loop | 20:47 |
| ccooke | So symbian phones are basically running X? | 20:47 |
| RST38h | And hierarchical message passing mechanism | 20:47 |
| RST38h | ccooke: No, it is just me making an analogy for penguin worshippers | 20:47 |
| ccooke | RST38h: oh, sorry | 20:47 |
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| RST38h | I guess they will have to kill Eikon to use Qt | 20:48 |
| RST38h | That would be the cleanest solution | 20:48 |
| ShadowJK | they'll just pile it ontop | 20:49 |
| ccooke | RST38h: probably. | 20:49 |
| asj_wrk | RST38h: I guess I'm stuck in the penguin world, but you have to eventually block somewhere, can you block on both easily? Well I guess Qt already has that concept so I probably ansewered my own question | 20:49 |
| RST38h | asj: Yes, Symbian apps block by going into Eikon event loop | 20:49 |
| RST38h | Shadow: That would cause a serious case of split personality | 20:50 |
| RST38h | asj: In fact, a Symbian app has no main(). It is a bunch of classes with some custom implemented methods | 20:50 |
| RST38h | asj: Symbian will call these methods to initialize application, it will then call event-handling methods as events arrive | 20:51 |
| ccooke | RST38h: which is similar to many other UI toolkits | 20:51 |
| RST38h | ccooke: Well you usually do have main | 20:51 |
| RST38h | ccooke: and call event loop explicitely | 20:51 |
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| RST38h | i.e. if you wish, you can insert your own code into the loop | 20:51 |
| asj_wrk | hmmmm, the last symbian app I wrote has a main32 or something, I think had to create/register an event queue I thought...but that was months ago, I'm busy moving so my Symbian learning stopped in June | 20:51 |
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| RST38h | asj: That was entry point for the DLL | 20:52 |
| asj_wrk | ok | 20:52 |
| RST38h | asj: EMAIN32 | 20:52 |
| RST38h | asj: it has nothing to do with traditional main | 20:52 |
| asj_wrk | ah ok | 20:52 |
| RST38h | If Nokia is clever, they will hide all the traditional Symbian stuff and just allow for main() and standard Qt code | 20:53 |
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| asj_wrk | honestly the biggest problem I had with Symbian was finding upto date books/tutorials that weren't $50 a pop | 20:53 |
| RST38h | asj: You do not really need any | 20:53 |
| RST38h | asj: stuff at newlc.com + samples should be suffcicient | 20:54 |
| asj_wrk | RST38h: coming from a linux/qt background the whole C class, T class, etc ideas need some explanation. I needed the 50 page, Symbian for Linux people ;) | 20:54 |
| ShadowJK | pys60 is sufficient for hobbyhacking :) | 20:55 |
| RST38h | There is no 50-page symbian | 20:55 |
| asj_wrk | ShadowJK: pys60 has it's issues | 20:56 |
| glass_ | asj_wrk: the books that are fifty bucks a pop ain't up to date either | 20:56 |
| glass_ | so, the wiki, newlc etc are the way to go | 20:56 |
| asj_wrk | glass_: heh, too bad I didn't have this channel back in May ;) | 20:56 |
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| rmt | mojocafe, doesn't seem to work, btw .. click on it and get prompted for a download link | 21:00 |
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| aSIMULAtor | good evening maemonians | 21:02 |
| aSIMULAtor | maemoians | 21:02 |
| aSIMULAtor | maemorites | 21:02 |
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| rektide | maemorites is funniest. ++ | 21:03 |
| aSIMULAtor | let's stick with that, maemorite | 21:03 |
| aSIMULAtor | :P | 21:03 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: you alive? :) | 21:03 |
| RST38h | also: maemorism | 21:03 |
| slonopotamus | mememto maemori | 21:04 |
| * sp3000 checks pulse | 21:04 | |
| RST38h | maemento | 21:04 |
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| slonopotamus | oh, true. uno maemento | 21:05 |
| aSIMULAtor | uno maemento por favor | 21:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The 5800's lack of alphabet on the dialer really sucks. | 21:16 |
| asj_wrk | the n97 doesn't have it either, that is lame | 21:16 |
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| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 21:17 | |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: i can't do work from this side of the world? | 21:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | asj_wrk, I have this bookmarked as a reference. . . . http://www.rigacci.org/docs/biblio/online/intro_to_networking/stdimages/page77.gif | 21:18 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 21:19 |
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| coldboot | For some reason when using SCons for Maemo on ARM only (works fine with i386), I get it terminating with error 126 unless I move python out of the way first. | 21:24 |
| coldboot | moving python like this: mv /scratchbox/tools/bin/python /scratchbox/tools/bin/python.old | 21:24 |
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| Stskeeps | that's fairly normal for sb1.. | 21:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:26 |
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| * Stskeeps wonders idly who badger is on the forums | 21:29 | |
| johnsq | has anybody the quiver source code? the home-page seems dead. | 21:29 |
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| Stskeeps | think its closed source | 21:30 |
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| johnsq | thats bad, than i can't compile it for gentoo :( | 21:33 |
| coldboot | Did you want to funroll its loops? | 21:34 |
| johnsq | i wan't to compile it for a sane / standard system | 21:35 |
| Jaffa | Yeah, Quiver is closed source IIRC | 21:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | It's in non-free, at least | 21:36 |
| dark2 | How i can install deb package in maemo | 21:37 |
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| coldboot | fakeroot dpkg -i package.deb | 21:37 |
| coldboot | dark2: ^ | 21:37 |
| dark2 | And thats all | 21:38 |
| johnsq | too bad, first usable picture viewer, as I already asked any other alternatives? | 21:38 |
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| Jaffa | Anyone with a better Internet connection than me willing to go to http://garage.maemo.org/ or http://maemo.org/profile/list/ and tell me exactly how many maemo.org accounts there are now? | 21:38 |
| coldboot | dark2: That's it. | 21:38 |
| dark2 | And where i can execute the commans arp | 21:38 |
| coldboot | dark2: What? | 21:38 |
| Jaffa | dark2: X Terminal ships as standard | 21:38 |
| dark2 | Yes | 21:38 |
| dark2 | i need to run arp -a | 21:39 |
| dark2 | And i donnt have it | 21:39 |
| SpeedEvil | /me waits for jaffa's list. | 21:39 |
| dark2 | I searched and found it on /sbin/ | 21:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: I get ~6*30 | 21:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: err - no - hangon | 21:40 |
| * SpeedEvil bisects. | 21:40 | |
| * Jaffa is putting together a rushed presentation on the Maemo community for onedotzero and they want the slides yesterday | 21:40 | |
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| SpeedEvil | searching now | 21:41 |
| johnsq | dark2: you found it on your desktop or not? | 21:41 |
| johnsq | dark2: you found it on your desktop or nit? | 21:41 |
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| Jaffa | SpeedEvil: ta | 21:41 |
| dark2 | On my maemo | 21:41 |
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| johnsq | dark2: then you need only gain root. see wiki maemo | 21:42 |
| dark2 | I press root | 21:44 |
| dark2 | And im root | 21:44 |
| dark2 | /mnt/initfs/proc/net/arp | 21:44 |
| dark2 | /mnt/initfs/proc/net/arp | 21:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: and that link is slow. ~180*30 - better numbers in a bit | 21:44 |
| dark2 | /mnt/initfs/proc/net/arp | 21:44 |
| johnsq | dark2: that no command, that the kernel config for arp | 21:45 |
| dark2 | How eck it | 21:46 |
| dark2 | How i can check it | 21:46 |
| johnsq | dark2: cat /mnt/initfs/proc/net/arp | 21:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | hmm. Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/midcom/core/privilege.php on line 457 | 21:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | Asking for over page 180 or so seems to die horribly | 21:50 |
| Jaffa | Hmm | 21:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Page 185(*30) has a karma of 5 | 21:51 |
| Jaffa | I'll try and ask X-Fade or someone for n account grep from the db | 21:51 |
| Jaffa | There's a very long tail | 21:51 |
| Jaffa | SpeedEvil: Thanks | 21:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Asking for more seems to be hitting php errors | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | np | 21:52 |
| coldboot | I have a problem with scratchbox 1 where all the resources of my Qt applications are now messed up, only for ARM. | 21:52 |
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| coldboot | The main window of the application has majorly corrupted resources, and it runs extremely slow. | 21:55 |
| coldboot | It works fine in i386, though. | 21:55 |
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| trbs | anybody from europe figured out if it's cheaper to pre-order the n900 from the us ? google says 650dollar is 447euro... while europe pre-order stores list the n900 for 600 euro... but i don't know if there hidden costs to importing one ? | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | well you are bound to be hit with some degree of customs fee.. | 22:08 |
| johnsq | trbs: | 22:08 |
| asj_wrk | trbs: and will the euro version have normal 2100mhz 3g? the US version at 2100mhz t-mo AWS may not work...? | 22:08 |
| johnsq | trbs: about 19% + 2% in germany | 22:09 |
| mandara | trbs, well at expansys is 499euro | 22:09 |
| trbs | asj_wrk, ah good point... cell is not the same everywhere as well.... | 22:09 |
| Corsac | 620 for .fr :( | 22:09 |
| SpeedEvil | They have to include the voltaic charger for france though. | 22:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | And frogs-legs aren't cheap. | 22:10 |
| Corsac | but tasty | 22:10 |
| asj_wrk | aren't all nokia charges 100-240v? of course the plug won't fit | 22:10 |
| trbs | didn't europe did the all phones need compatible chargers thing ? :) | 22:13 |
| trbs | s/did/do/ | 22:13 |
| infobot | trbs meant: don't europe did the all phones need compatible chargers thing ? :) | 22:13 |
| trbs | lol | 22:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | infobot: recently | 22:21 |
| SpeedEvil | infobot: gotta be mini-b | 22:21 |
| SpeedEvil | or something | 22:21 |
| SpeedEvil | which sucks - but... | 22:21 |
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| asj_wrk | micro-b | 22:23 |
| asj_wrk | (which is better than mini-b) | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | am i the only one getting weird conspiracy vibes over http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31351 ? :P | 22:23 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - micro-b | 22:25 |
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| * SpeedEvil would personally preferred 2.5mm fourpole - but meh | 22:25 | |
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| coldboot | Whenever I compile a qt-maemo application in Scratchbox 1 for the armel target, the image resources are corrupted a lot, and the program runs extremely slow. I've posted the question here with details: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1395859/qt-maemo-resources-screwed-up-in-scratchbox-1-for-the-armel-target | 22:27 |
| coldboot | Does anyone know what could be wrong with my scratchbox install? It's happened before, and I had to clean install scratchbox to get it working again. | 22:28 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: Weird conspiracy vibes? No, just sad a person who evidently doesn't understand the device got one. | 22:28 |
| qwerty12_N810 | +I'm | 22:29 |
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| lbt | any mesa/GL people here? | 22:31 |
| lbt | I'm looking for a mesa equiv to GLES | 22:31 |
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| * lbt pulls the latest mesa-7.6 which has SW support for GL ES2.0 .... interesting... | 23:03 | |
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| javispedro | lbt: Vincent. Or the PowerVR TI SDK stuff. | 23:09 |
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| lbt | gallium | 23:09 |
| lbt | http://zrusin.blogspot.com/2009/05/opengl-es.html | 23:09 |
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| Woolly | lardman: ping | 23:10 |
| lbt | ftp://ftp.freedesktop.org/pub/mesa/beta/MesaLib-7.6-devel-20090908.tar.gz | 23:10 |
| lbt | it's .... rare.... bleu even | 23:10 |
| javispedro | a nightly? | 23:11 |
| javispedro | hm. | 23:11 |
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| * lbt grabs the debian packaging and the dev source and squishes them together and calls it Mer-stable | 23:11 | |
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| coldboot | Has anyone seen fureddo lately? | 23:17 |
| coldboot | He was in here on August 14th, and had the same BadDrawable X error I'm having. | 23:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The Runaround @ Apple | 23:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woo! | 23:23 |
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| coldboot | GeneralAntilles: What/ | 23:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Finally! | 23:37 |
| woglinde | where? | 23:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mac Pro is being configured for me as we speak. | 23:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Customer Relations people are useless. | 23:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Store guys were so much more helpful. | 23:38 |
| woglinde | I dont care about mac pro | 23:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | woglinde, I do, since it's free. | 23:38 |
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| woglinde | I would have taken a mac air | 23:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | For a dual-2.5GHz G5? | 23:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't think so. | 23:39 |
| woglinde | g5? | 23:39 |
| woglinde | no chance for snow leopard | 23:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Liquid cooled G5. | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | It leaked at the beginning of the year | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Apple authorized a no-cost repair for me. | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then the repair failed, so the Store authorized a replacement, but told me I needed to call the Customer Relations people to figure out what the straight replacement would be for the BTO options. | 23:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | So I called Customer Relations, they gave me the runaround and told me I needed to deal with the Store. | 23:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Called the Store back and they said "Oh. OK, then, what'll you have." | 23:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Done and done. | 23:41 |
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| coldboot | In general, when someone says: "You need to go talk to this other person who's part of my organization, directly or indirectly..." | 23:44 |
| coldboot | They should talk to them themselves. | 23:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | coldboot, yeah, probably, but it's done now. | 23:59 |
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