IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-08-27

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Gadgetoid_N810The N810 needs a jog dial, everything should have a jog dial00:02
Gadgetoid_N810You should be able to buy USB jog dials for netbooks00:02
Gadgetoid_N810qwerty12_N810,  Apple routers <3 <300:05
Gadgetoid_N810apart from the lack of dyndns support00:06
* javispedro grabs wiimote, grabs tablet, and starts googling...00:07
qwerty12_N810Gadgetoid_N810: Heh, thanks, I don't use dyndns, so I'll be OK on that front.. :)00:07
qwerty12_N810Last router I had liked to restart too. At least there was a logic behind that one's restarting...00:08
Gadgetoid_N810d-link are all right I think00:08
Gadgetoid_N810mine, at least, both worked beautifully00:08
Gadgetoid_N810but the new airport base station is excellent00:09
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Veggenamr: only postage?00:15
Veggensince it doesn't work, I'm not willing to try find out why ;) (and I don't sell defective things, but if someone want it and are willing to risk the postage, feel free :)00:16
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amrVeggen cool00:24
amrwhere do you live? :P00:24
amr(please say the uk)00:25
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MaceN8x0root@restless:/home/mace# xset +fp /usr/share/fonts/X11/misc00:27
MaceN8x0xset:  bad font path element (#62), possible causes are: Directory does not exist or has wrong permissions00:27
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johnsqMaceN8x0: wau 62 font paths.00:28
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johnsqMaceN8x0: #62 is the 62th element in font paths, you have already 61 paths00:30
MaceN8x0i dont understand00:32
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johnsqMaceN8x0: you have very much fonts installed.00:34
MaceN8x0is that why i cant add another fp?00:34
johnsqMaceN8x0: are you sure ../X11/.. gentoo has only fonts/misc00:34
MaceN8x0im in mer00:34
Veggenamr: Norway.00:35
amroh, arse00:35
Veggenso might not be worth it.00:35
johnsqMaceN8x0: you should look if #62 is the /misc/ than there is a failure with misc.00:36
MaceN8x0well. i am trying to add the dir now00:36
MaceN8x0so it is00:36
* GAN800 boggles at the attitudes on Talk.00:37
* lardman wanders over and takes a look00:38
GAN800lemmyslander, in particular.00:39
pupnik_lardman. could you get a sine wave playing out of dsp?00:39
lardmanwell Quim's comment is reassuring00:39
Gadgetoid_N810Yay, freed up some internal memory00:40
lardmanpupnik_: not directly00:40
lardmanpupnik_: you could generate one on the DSP and play it on the ARM00:40
pupnik_or was the output to sound server the real difficulty?00:40
pupnik_ah k00:40
pupnik_too bad00:40
lardmanwell perhaps00:40
lardmanI mean we may need to rewrite the DSP kernel for Mer anyway, and in that case someone would have to write the audio codec driver, and then you would be able to output directly00:41
pupnik_i see00:41
lardmanyou want this for the game sounds right?00:42
lardmansb emu or something?00:42
pupnik_lots of emus00:42
lardmanwell it's certainly possible00:42
johnsqlardman: i will need it for my IR Remote.00:42
lardmanjohnsq: sine waves?00:42
lardmanah ir via the headphone output?00:43
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johnsqlardman: yes. yes00:43
lardmanprobably easier to do that on the ARM than get the DSP involved00:43
lardmanpupnik_ is interested in offloading some processing mainly00:43
zerojayPCGAN800: Yeah, I was just catching back up on that thread.00:43
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pupnik_the dsp could do the emulation and send the resulting audio stream back to the emu00:44
zerojayPCGAN800: I particularly don't like the implication that I've spent my time entering bugs and correcting the wiki because I expect payment from Nokia in one form or another.00:45
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zerojayPCGAN800: He just posted an apology.00:47
lardmanpupnik_: yes00:47
lardmanpupnik_: if you have a piece of single threaded code that generates the sinusoids from some sort of instruction stream, it should be reasonably easy to port (he says :D)00:48
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timeless_mbpzerojayPC: who?00:51
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zerojayPCtimeless_mbp: lemmysomething00:55
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VDVsxWarning: TMO is dangerous for your mental health, avoid consume it in large doses :P00:59
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zerojayPCI remember when we used to get the odd troll here or there once every month or so complaining that Skype video didn't work.01:02
lardmannew devices always bring an influx of new people wanting to make their mark01:02
Macerjust going to try to add the font paths to xorg.conf01:03
Macerand hope it can pick them up that way01:03
Maceronce i get a couple more things working in mer then the world will be a better place heh01:03
javispedrospecially phone devices.01:03
GAN800lardman, it's been going downhill since well before that.01:03
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zerojayPClardman: Nothing wrong with that, really... I just wish some wouldn't take such a... um... constant negative attitude about things... or make snap judgments.01:04
lardmanGAN800: that's also the effect of the platform becoming more popular I think01:04
lardmandrawing more people in, and more non-devs01:04
GAN800zerojayPC, or just generally insist upon habitual inane stupidity. :D01:05
zerojayPCAll the "OMG Nokia's putting out a netbook but it doesn't run Linux... MAEMO IS OVAR!" people are the ones that are really pissing me off at the moment.01:05
Macerwell. i guess adding a font path makes mer not boot anymore01:05
Macerblah crapper01:05
VDVsxzerojayPC, same here01:05
zerojayPCWish I hadn't signed up to the maemo-users mailing list. Spammed by about 50 e-mails about that fucking thing.01:06
qwerty12_N810zerojayPC: lol, so true...01:06
lcukzerojayPC, different people, different skillset.01:06
lardmanzerojayPC: turn it into a digest01:06
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johnsqlcuk: more zero skillset01:06
lcuki can see the similarity though. a 10inch none touch craptop is so close to the mark for the tablets01:06
lcukthey are literally buzzing us guys ;)01:07
lcukjohnsq, no actually.01:07
zerojayPClardman: But do I want a digest that will be almost entirely off-topic? :)01:07
lcuknokia employs many people01:07
timeless_mbpGAN800: anyway01:07
timeless_mbpi'll need help shorlty01:07
lcukthey want to keep their jobs01:07
timeless_mbpwhere's our packaging expert?01:07
GAN800zerojayPC, unsubscribe from -users.01:08
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GAN800They're all trolls whose purpose is to trick you into wasting your time trying to help or inform them. ;)01:09
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* timeless_mbp pokes jeremiah 01:09
* timeless_mbp still needs a solution01:09
timeless_mbpi think tentatively that i'll package into an enus1 directory01:09
GAN800I unsubscribed from -users last year, you'll be a much happier person if you do too.01:09
timeless_mbpand then back up things into an enus0 directory01:10
zerojayPCGAN800: Yeah, I think I'll be doing that.01:10
timeless_mbpand replace things whose md5sums i recognize01:10
qwerty12_N810enus... is that similar to anus?01:10
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: have you installed my package in diablo?01:10
timeless_mbp(extras-devel) apt-get install locale-l10n-enus101:10
qwerty12_N810No, I'm waiting for the real English (read: en_GB) version :)01:11
JaffaX-Fade: ping01:11
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: help me come up w/ a packaging system which can get into extras01:11
timeless_mbpand my british colleague will help convert it to engb101:11
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GadgetoidN810 virtual memory, on or off?01:11
lcukby the way, ultimate most positive thing i saw after the nokia laptop announced.   our very own feremiah set the ball rolling on documenting it for a debian port01:11
zerojayPCqwerty12_N810: Pfffft. ;)01:12
lardmanqwerty12_N810: s/en_GB/en obviously it being the one and only English01:12
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Hehe, sounds fair :)01:12
qwerty12_N810lardman: yep01:12
lardmanoh no, not sure I should have done that, can't be arsed with another argument with GAN800 ;)01:12
* javispedro grabs pocorn and goes watch maemo-users (he never subscribed)01:12
qwerty12_N810zerojayPC: Oh, sorry, did the mention of real English annoy you? ;P01:12
timeless_mbplardman / qwerty12_N810 : i'm fairly certain most people would prefer enus1 over Fingrish01:12
zerojayPCqwerty12_N810: Haha.01:12
lcukqwerty12_N810, i think you are right, i misread "enus" every time01:13
lardmantimeless_mbp: yep :)01:13
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: true that01:13
timeless_mbpanyway, packaging help really really needed01:13
Maceris up with mer and the fonts?01:13
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lcuk>>>>>>>>>>>>> #mer is that way01:14
lcukask them01:14
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qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I'm lazy... I'd just divert...01:14
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Macertried. nobody is there01:14
javispedrolcuk, to the right?? damn. that's what I always ended up in #porn instead.01:14
qwerty12_N810javispedro: that's a bad thing?01:14
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lcukhint, alpha sorting - mer is before porn01:14
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lcukand before qt :P01:14
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lardmandoes #porn exist?01:15
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qwerty12_N810It's a fucking trick chan!01:15
lcukits a fake chan from freenode nodoubt01:15
qwerty12_N810"[##you_have_got_to_be_kidding] Hi, you should probably read the network policy page ( and maybe some information about the network ( and and maybe find a better network ;) ( Thanks!"01:15
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javispedrothey should have banned you all just for trying01:16
lcukdoes #pron exist?01:16
lcukoooh i was opped for a moment01:16
javispedrobahj, too many posts about the nokbook in -users to enjoy01:18
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* javispedro notices the hildon-games-wrapper library crashes instead of gracefully giving an error when it tries to read an unset key. 01:20
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jaemhey folks01:21
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jaemis there a non-obvious way to change your password on  I can't find an obvious one01:21
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lardmanfloating toolbar01:21
qwerty12_N810The non-obvious way involves blood, and a cow01:22
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lardmanit's a goat actually01:22
jaemlardman: yes, but I'm not seeing it for some reason >_<01:22
jaemqwerty12_N810: lol01:22
lardmanedit iitc01:22
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infobotqwerty12_N810 meant: The non-obvious way involves blood, and a lardman01:22
lardmannot many password changes after the first one then... :)01:22
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jaem...still not seeing it01:23
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GadgetoidWhen you turn off virtual memory in the N810, does it still leave the file knocking about?01:24
lardmanjaem: hang on let me look01:25
Maceri give up on the fonts for now01:25
lardmanjaem: click on your name at the top01:26
Macernot important enough and i've already wasted an hour on them :)01:26
Macermer doesn't seem to want to use font paths01:26
Macernot even from xorg.conf01:26
lardmanjaem: to go to your profile, then Page>Edit account01:26
Macerxset won't add new ones wither01:26
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: so erm01:27
timeless_mbpcould you take my diablo extras packages and provide examples of how diverges would work?01:28
timeless_mbpplease note that marius (ham owner, retired) didn't think it was a good choice of technologies01:28
timeless_mbpand that we're talking about 70+ packages with unknown conflicting package names01:28
lardmanjaem: that work?01:29
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qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: will try and do so if I have a lot of time.. I've seen how many mos are to be found in your packages... :)01:30
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timeless_mbpi really think diverges is incredibly impractical01:31
KhertanHi again01:31
timeless_mbpi've talked it over w/ both marius and jeremiah01:31
lardmanhi Khertan01:31
qwerty12_N810If a better solution can be found, then, by all means, please go with it (and let me know what it is :))01:32
Khertanhi lardman01:32
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: i'm thinking of installing into  /path/enus101:33
timeless_mbpbacking up files into /path/enus001:33
timeless_mbpand then using a md5sum database of files and replacing any file whose checksum matches my database with ones from enus101:34
timeless_mbpseem reasonable?01:34
jaemlardman: sorry, back.  And no, I already tried that01:34
Khertanftp transfer with an md5checksum ?01:34
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: How would this checksum be checked? md5sum is not a part of the tablet01:34
timeless_mbpi can pull it in or implement it in perl if necessary01:35
Khertanqwerty_n810 of course it is .;. there is python01:35
Khertani ve a small  unoptimized ftp backup script that do a md5checksum before sending01:36
Khertanscript done in python01:36
timeless_mbpi could probably just have a list of the latest debian package i obsolete for each thing01:37
jaemis there anyone that I can talk to about the password?  It's been compromised, and I really need to change it01:37
timeless_mbpbut the problem is that people will end up pulling in my entire package just to update one package01:37
timeless_mbpotoh, i don't think that's a lot of space, and it's probably still cheaper than the package maintenance on hundreds of packages01:38
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qwerty12_N810Hundreds of packages suddenly visible in the Application Manager (even under red-pill mode) doesn't sound good anyway :)01:39
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qwerty12_N810(Look at the XChat locale packages)01:40
Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: Why so serious?01:40
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lardmanjaem: hmm, so I see. Try X-Fade01:42
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qwerty12_N810Luke-Jr: Because it's 23:42 and there has to be one point in the day where I am so :)01:43
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Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: WHY SO SERIOUS⁈01:45
javispedrowow. you used a unicode character combining ? and !01:45
javispedropure genius.01:46
Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: WHY SO SERIOUS⁈⁈⁈⁈⁈⁈01:47
Luke-Jrjavispedro: appending.01:47
lardmanenough shouting, it's late01:47
Luke-Jrcombining would be more like ‽01:47
javispedrounicode: the most complete kitchen sink ever made.01:48
derfStill doesn't have hieroglyphics NOR Klingon.01:49
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lardmanall I see are strange fractions and french accents01:49
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qwerty12_N810lardman: stop insulting Unicode!01:49
Luke-Jrderf: hieroglyphics were recently added01:49
Luke-Jrderf: hieroglyphics were recently added01:49
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lardmanright, bed time, too many french accents and fractions for one evening :p01:50
lardmannight all01:50
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Luke-JrHow about a nice game of chess?01:51
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javispedroNo, I want to play Global ThermoUnicodeChar War.01:52
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Luke-Jrjavispedro: ooook01:52
javispedronaa, forget already ;P01:52
Luke-Jr☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢01:52
Luke-JrDon't forget to ♻!01:53
Luke-Jror we can just settle for building a ☃01:53
* qwerty12_N810 can't decide what's worse: this or infobot01:53
Macerxterm: cannot load font -*-terminus-medium-r-*-*-16-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-101:54
Macerodd. fluxbox can use the font01:54
Macerwhy can't xterm01:54
johnsqMacer: use rxvt01:55
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Macerrxvt does transparent backgrounds? ;)01:55
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Macerthat's what i was trying to get going01:55
johnsqMacer: pseudo transprent iirc yes.01:56
javispedroLuke-Jr, I don't know but your unicodechars have gotten into my source code01:57
Macerok. i'll try it out01:57
javispedro*I don't know how.01:57
Macerkind of sucks i had to install Eterm just for Esetroot01:57
Macernot that it takes up much space. but it'll be just kind of sitting there. i suppose i can rm the bin01:57
Maceri just noticed that every time you install something that has a menu process01:58
johnsqMacer: fbsetbg supports all properties01:58
Macerit ruins the shared menu and sets it to default01:58
Macerjohnsq: yeah but you need something capable of setting a background image01:58
Macerxsetroot only does color01:59
Maceri couldn't think of anything else that would work01:59
Macerplus i figured Eterm would just work and not spit out that it can't use fonts01:59
johnsqMacer: fbsetroot and fbsetbg belongs to fluxbox01:59
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Macerdoes fbsetroot do it?01:59
Macerfbsetbg is just a wrapper01:59
Maceri didn't know fbsetroot would change the bg image02:00
johnsqMacer: thats for gradient and color fbsetbg does images.02:00
derfLuke-Jr: It doesn't go in until October, apparently.02:00
johnsqMacer: feh as setter, fbsetbg handles the properties02:00
Luke-Jrderf: he doesn't come out until October, hopefully02:01
Macerfigured fbsetbg just detected whatever you had that could do it02:01
Macerand did it02:01
Macerbut if feh does it i will install that soon02:01
Macerand rm Eterm/Esetroot02:01
Maceras long as rxvt can do transparency02:02
Macerand runs02:02
Maceri don't know wtf is up with the fonts but it is odd02:02
johnsqMacer: don't rm you should uninstall it with apt02:02
Luke-Jrno, aptitude02:03
Macerthat's what i meant ;)02:03
johnsqMacer: ask some debian user, iirc debian uses font manager debforma or so.02:03
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Macerrxvt doesn't do transparent backgrounds02:03
Maceror at least it doesn't have the option in -help02:04
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Macerand none of the terms seem to pick up on the fonts02:05
Maceralthough... fluxbox is able to (like when changing styles)02:05
Macerblah. :) this can wait for later. let me try out qtablet02:06
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JaffaHmm, I should really pack my bag for Brighton tomorrow :-/02:11
JaffaAnd I should really go to bed.02:11
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javispedroi'm surely going to become rich and famous with this kind of gui design...
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VDVsxjavispedro, better put those options in an menu, IMO :)02:47
javispedrocan you put all kinds of widgets in a fremantle menu?02:47
VDVsxjavispedro, probably :) , didn't touched in hildon 2.2 yet02:48
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VDVsxjavispedro, just in case, here are some docs:  :)02:52
VDVsxthere's also some for the python-hildon api02:52
javispedronot going to do much until we have more devices in the wild, but i'm looking at it not to waste too much time in a deprecated maemo4 api02:53
VDVsxtrue, just do a simple UI for the diablo, the true functionality of your app isn't the UI itself ;)02:55
VDVsx*for diablo02:55
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wazdany survivors? :)03:06
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Macerqtablet is like... awesome03:07
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javispedrothey have done a great job with the gtkdialogs, the "close" buttons disappear.03:10
Maceri love the transparent titlebar03:10
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Macerwow.. i might actually try to run it in mer if i can add apps to it03:11
javispedrowazd, happy thoughs :)03:11
wazdjavispedro: that's leaked press photo, what are you talking about :D03:11
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Macera leaked press render? :)03:11
javispedroman, I would love to see a 4-row keyboard maemophone.03:12
jaemwazd: nice03:13
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wazdE900 is "maemo for serious dudes" :D03:13
jaemMacer: I missed the beginning - what are you running QTablet on?03:13
Macera n81003:13
Macerin mer03:13
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Macerso far all i've run is xterm on it03:14
Maceri'd love to figure out how to add apps to the launcher03:14
Macerand change the backgrounds :)03:14
Macerit's amazing03:14
jaemhow useable is it at the moment?03:14
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Macerwell. it's running03:14
jaemI'm going to have to wipe my card to stick Wikipedia on it anyway, so I may try Mer03:14
Macerthere isn't really much to it03:14
jaemI just haven't in a while03:14
Macerbut it has a very nice interface03:14
Macermer is ok03:15
Macerif diablo could print it would be far superior to anything03:15
Macerbut then again. mer can't print either03:15
jaemMacer: not yet?03:15
Maceryeah.. not yet (i guess)03:16
Maceri don't think printing has a high priority03:16
jaemno, but it would be nice03:16
Macerso far i've just been running fluxbox on it instead of the stock ui03:17
jaemhow is it?03:17
Macerthey have fluxbox instructions on their site03:17
jaemyeah, I saw them03:17
Macerit's like running an old computer ;)03:17
Macersound kind of sucks in mer03:18
Maceri am going to try a smaller encode of something later to try in vlc again03:18
Macerin diablo the video would play without problems. in mer the sound chops up :) and the video is kind of stuttering03:18
zerojayPCWhat's this I saw in my twitter feed about the N900 announcement being TOMORROW?03:19
javispedrothere must be some truth in that03:19
javispedrowhy if not have I started to play with Hildon 2.2?03:20
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zerojayPCYes, destiny.03:20
GAN800What's tomorrow?03:20
GAN800and from whom?03:20
javispedroa.k.a. url?03:20
jaemwhat's this?03:22
jaem...just to add to the "ears-perked-up" thing03:22
zerojayPCI think it might be someone that's confused, but...
Macersorry. but there would be a lot more noise than a twitter announcement03:23
zerojayPCYeah, I know.03:23
zerojayPCThat's why I think he's confused or something.03:23
javispedro"Nokia will launch firefox on the next maemo device". yes...03:23
zerojayPCI see absolutely nothing about it.03:23
Macerqtablet deserves to get played with later03:23
Macerseems pretty good03:23
jaemgah... why are 16GB microSD cards so darn expensive...?03:23
jaemthat was a rhetorical question03:24
Macerjaem: i found one on tigerdirect for 5003:24
* jaem nods03:24
Macerc6 ;)03:24
jaembut I could get an 8GB c4 on sale for ~$25 last spring03:24
Macerbut you lose speed03:24
jaemthat's not bad, I suppose, but the gap is annoying03:24
jaemall I have is cheap Kingston c4's anyway03:24
Maceri bought a 4G for $11 just because i wanted the minisd adapter03:25
Macerand figured the extra 4G c6 would be good in my phone03:25
jaembut I'd like to be able to store several movies AND all of Wikipedia :/03:25
Macerthen the 4G sd broke haha03:25
jaemis that too much to ask?03:25
Macerin like a week03:25
Macer:) go figure03:25
Macerisn't worth shipping it back03:25
Macerdamn the qtablet interface is perfect for a tablet03:26
jaemokay, that's it - I'm installing Mer :P03:26
Macernot worth it for qtablet03:27
Macerit doesn't really do much03:27
jaemnot just that... I'm just getting the prerelease itch03:27
jaemit's my primary character flaw03:27
Macerpreorder a touch book03:27
Maceri'm still waiting on mine :)03:27
Macersame hardware (mostly)03:28
jaemwho makes that, again?03:28
jaemI don't think I've actually seen one yet03:28
jaema picture, that is03:28
Macerpeople have started receiving them03:28
Maceralways innovating03:28
Macerwtf. mer doesn't want to boot now03:28
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Maceri dunno. i think my n810 must be flakey or something03:28
Macerit tried to boot then just reset on its own03:29
jaemoh, this one03:29
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Macerhm. it's stopping at the same point again03:29
Macergoddamnit. i'm going to have to check the fs03:29
jaemnot a bad price, either03:29
jaemif only I had the money for it ;)03:29
Maceri guess it would be considered "pre order" still03:29
Macersince they are backlogged03:29
Macerbut it isn't vaporware03:29
Macerpeople have actually started to receive them03:29
Macerfluxbox in mer though.. it reminds me of my old dual p3/500 that used to run blackbox03:31
jaemI found that the other day... odd...03:31
jaemMacer: I've run OpenBox more recently03:31
jaemand Awesome, a while back03:31
jaemI keep coming back to KDE, though03:32
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jaemsigh... I still haven't bought a wlan dongle for my desktop, so I have to route my Tubes through either my laptop or N81003:35
zerojayPCWow.. I... I guess I'm going to Amsterdam... :D03:36
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zerojayPCI guess I better get a passport, eh? lol03:44
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RichiHi am unable to download any maps on a newly flashed n810 on which is also re-created the partition and fat32 on the 2 GB storage04:02
RichiHwhat is the best way to debug this?04:02
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MaceN8x0ah well guess no transparent backgrounds for me04:17
MaceN8x0blah heh04:18
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neostrider-bzkhello there?04:54
neostrider-bzkwhos in da house?04:55
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neostrider-bzkhello there?05:09
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neostrider-bzkhello there?05:34
neostrider-bzkany brave N800 owner willing to test my SDL game?05:35
neostrider-bzk(works with 770 and N810 - not even a single smoke puff)05:35
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* timeless_mbp looks at an n800 on the desk05:37
* neostrider-bzk looks at timeless_mbp05:37
timeless_mbpit was chirping too much last night, so we put it out of our misery05:37
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neostrider-bzkwell..heres the link:
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* timeless_mbp wonders what an authenticated session is05:39
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: I don't see a link to source05:40
neostrider-bzkI should make it more acessible05:40
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: do you have an ebuild?05:40
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: how do you eat that?05:40
Luke-JrI don't see source on the SF project either...05:41
Luke-Jreat what05:41
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: joke. I dont know what ebuild is05:41
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: Gentoo metadata05:41
neostrider-bzkI use a simple shell script to build it05:41
neostrider-bzkbut Im migrating to netbeans C++05:41
Luke-Jrebuilds are specially formatted BASH scripts for building things05:41
Luke-Jrwtf is netbeans05:41
neostrider-bzkbeing scratchbox my only issue right now05:42
Luke-Jrwhy not use something standard or at least more common?05:42
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neostrider-bzkwell, netbeans is a quite popular IDE, open source and its made with Java05:43
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man_in_shackeew, netbeans05:43
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: Java ftl05:43
Luke-Jrand IDE != build system05:43
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: In that case, I trust my IDE build system05:43
neostrider-bzksource ->
* man_in_shack prefers eclipse to netbeans, and eclipse is f***ing awful05:44
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Luke-Jrso there's no proper source release?05:44
neostrider-bzkunder the hood, netbeans use makefiles anyway05:44
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: everything on subversion05:44
Luke-Jrso really you mean you're moving to Make?05:44
man_in_shackneostrider-bzk, so why not just use makefiles?05:44
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: most software has versions05:44
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack:  it doesnt like my way to arrange the files - everything in .h files and just a single .cpp05:45
Luke-Jrof course it doesn't, that's just wrong05:45
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: its been working for my for the last 4 years05:45
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neostrider-bzk(I started this project after downloading the first release of the Maemo SDK, wat back in late 2005)05:45
Luke-Jrif you're going to write C++ code, you need to learn C++05:46
man_in_shackmakefiles can be made to like your broken build system05:46
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: I write my own C++ style. And it has been working since then...05:46
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack:  I dont like its synthax...05:47
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: what you just described is not C++, even if a C++ compiler can figure out how to build it05:47
man_in_shackneostrider-bzk, its syntax is really nice and easy05:47
neostrider-bzkgcc does it very well indeed05:47
man_in_shackgcc is not a c++ compiler05:47
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: which script builds?05:47
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: that doesn't make it C++ code05:48
* man_in_shack wonders what neostrider-bzk means by "everything" is in .h files?05:48
Luke-Jrugh, exe files in the svn repo05:48
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: if you consider that I dont use most advanced C++ features...05:48
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: I would be highly surprised if the C++ standard didn't define the difference between headers and sources05:49
man_in_shackneostrider-bzk, maybe you'd be happier with Obj-C05:49
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack:  No , thank you. My day job is at a Mobile Game Studio for iPhone05:49
neostrider-bzkhate XCode05:49
Luke-Jrwho said anything about XCode05:50
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: XCode->Obj-C05:50
neostrider-bzkI know, I know05:50
Luke-JrObj-C is a programming language05:50
Luke-Jrsupported by GCC just like C++05:50
neostrider-bzkOpenStep and all that stuff05:50
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man_in_shackLuke-Jr, he programs for iphone. there is NO HOPE for him05:50
Luke-Jrit has nothing to do with OpenStep either05:50
neostrider-bzkI just dont like [this [stuff like]]05:50
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: wtf is that stuff05:50
Luke-Jrwhy are there backup~ files in svn? -.-05:51
neostrider-bzkbecouse damn gedit create it while Im distracted05:51
Luke-JrI think this is about where I turn and run as fast as possible away from this05:51
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: you're free to do it05:51
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: again, what was the script to build it?05:51
Luke-JrI just want to see if it even builds05:52
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: stablesource is the current thing?05:52
neostrider-bzkIm about to fork it05:52
Luke-Jrmight want to move to a standard svn layout while you're at it05:52
neostrider-bzkthe thing is, you will probably need to comment a few stuff before building05:52
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: thing is that I cant seem to find a straight , simple, documentation about it05:53
man_in_shackok, yeah05:53
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man_in_shackseriously, neostrider-bzk, you should NOT be working with compilable languages here05:53
man_in_shackyou're doing everything you can possibly do wrong05:54
Luke-JrBZKmain.cpp:19: error: cannot convert 'int ☆(int*, int)throw ()' to 'int*' for argument '1' to 'int pipe(int*)'05:54
Luke-Jrwhat the *%&#*%# is that05:54
neostrider-bzkthis -> "|"05:54
neostrider-bzka pipe05:54
man_in_shackLuke-Jr, would you mind double-posting that on my stupid isp won't let me get to pastebin.ca05:54
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: I mean, how did you pull off that insane error?05:55
neostrider-bzkI dont see that error in here05:55
neostrider-bzkIt works flawlessly here05:55
neostrider-bzkeven inside scratchbox it does05:55
man_in_shackhence why you shouldn't be using a compilable language05:55
neostrider-bzkI have it here, running in my 770 right now05:55
Luke-Jrlet me guess, you're using some ancient GCC?05:55
man_in_shackbecause you're doing it wrong05:55
man_in_shackty Luke-Jr05:56
Luke-Jrint pipe1[2], pipe2[2];05:56
neostrider-bzkstone-age: gcc (GCC) 4.2.4 (Ubuntu 4.2.4-1ubuntu4)05:56
Luke-Jrpipe2 is a syscall05:56
Luke-Jrgcc (Gentoo 4.3.2-r3 p1.6, pie-10.1.5) 4.3.205:56
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* man_in_shack pointing at neostrider-bzk 05:56
Luke-JrI bet 4.4 would throw a fit05:56
man_in_shack4.2 was broken, wasn't it?05:56
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neostrider-bzkcant you just delete everything pipe or tcp/ip related?05:57
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack:  been working with this code for a looong time. It works on several other versions05:57
man_in_shackneostrider-bzk, can't you just fix it so it works for other people?05:57
neostrider-bzkok, but nobody else ever complained05:57
man_in_shack<neostrider-bzk> the thing is, you will probably need to comment a few stuff before building << BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD05:57
Luke-Jroh wow05:58
Luke-Jrrenaming his 'pipe2' works05:58
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack:  no feedback in 4 years <- EVEN WORST!05:58
Luke-Jrexcept running it I get 2 windows05:58
man_in_shacknotice the first error there05:58
man_in_shack"BZKmain.cpp:8: error: 'int pipe2 [2]' redeclared as different kind of symbol"05:58
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: I was testing multiplayer05:58
man_in_shackneostrider-bzk, how long has it been opensource?05:58
man_in_shackmore to the point, for how long have other people been compiling it?05:59
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: why the *%$&* does your game ignore Ctrl-C05:59
neostrider-bzkjust comment "StartPipeMultiplayerSession();" and make sure connected is false05:59
man_in_shackLuke-Jr, because that makes it awesome, obviously05:59
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: why the *%$&* does your game ignore clicking the X to close the window?05:59
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack: since its beginning05:59
Luke-Jrhow can I exit05:59
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: just go for "exit"05:59
Luke-Jrhaha, Quit menu item segfaults05:59
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: thank you very much for your community support06:00
man_in_shackthis adds to my comment about "you're doing EVERYTHING you possibly can wrong"06:00
Luke-Jrman_in_shack: don't worry, I'm running this in a sandbox ☺06:00
man_in_shackLuke-Jr, i just took a closer look at that paste06:00
man_in_shackat the bottom06:00
man_in_shack"strip: 'hunter': No such file"  << you're doing your build script wrong too!06:00
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack: simply becouse I always have a binary here06:01
neostrider-bzkso it never fails06:01
Luke-Jrman_in_shack: actually, I wonder if these compile errors might technically be a GCC bug06:01
man_in_shackthat's not the point06:01
man_in_shackneostrider-bzk, the point is that you're doing it wrong06:01
neostrider-bzkagain: this is a open source "as is". people might see fit, or not06:01
man_in_shackbad practice and al06:01
neostrider-bzki dont care06:01
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Luke-Jrman_in_shack: pipe2 is being defined by glibc and preventing his pipe2 var from working06:02
man_in_shackneostrider-bzk, would i be right in saying you taught yourself programming from scratch?06:02
neostrider-bzkyou cant support lots of plataforms without sacrificing something06:02
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack: mostly06:02
Luke-Jrman_in_shack: please don't assume learning programming yourself is flawed ☺06:02
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: nonsense06:02
man_in_shackLuke-Jr, i don't mean to imply that06:02
Luke-Jrportable C and C++ is quite doable06:02
Luke-Jrif you really need advanced things in a portable fashon, use Qt06:03
man_in_shackjust that he's FAILED to learn anything about how to do it properly06:03
neostrider-bzkfor instance:  EZX is plain weird to support. So is Windows Mobile06:03
neostrider-bzkso , experts, show me your stuff!06:03
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: there is no excuse for these totally wrong things06:03
Luke-Jrand writing it in Qt would mean automatic Windows Mobile support06:03
man_in_shackneostrider-bzk, was C or C++ your first language?06:03
Luke-Jrwtf is EZX?06:03
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr:  try building a SDL app for EZX phones and you tell me whats wrong06:03
Luke-Jrthose run Linux06:04
neostrider-bzkEZX is a linux plataform for Motorola Phones06:04
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: yeah, but isnt that simple: there is no official SDK06:04
Luke-Jruh, so?06:04
neostrider-bzkso it misbehaves badly06:04
Luke-Jrif you wrote your code correctly, you wouldn't use an SDK even if it was available06:04
neostrider-bzkthe segfault at the "quit" option was the best solution I could have to make it work06:05
Luke-Jrwtf that was intentional?06:05
neostrider-bzkyes.. it used to work well06:05
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neostrider-bzk"if you wrote your code correctly, you wouldn't use an SDK even if it was available" -> ???06:05
man_in_shackso now not are you doing EVERYTHING you possibly can wrong, you're actually doing it DELIBERATELY too?06:06
man_in_shackneostrider-bzk, he's right06:06
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: properly written code wouldn't need anything other than a normal compiler06:06
neostrider-bzkIm doing what I need to do , so the game works on my cellphone06:06
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: Not when you need some really weird stuff to build apps06:06
Luke-Jrheck, it looks like EZX runs or can run Qt Embedded06:06
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: which is NEVER06:07
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man_in_shackLuke-Jr, except possibly for windows mobile :P06:07
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neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: so you're basically saying that OpenEZX and other efforts are plain waste of time?06:07
man_in_shackbut as you said, Qt Embedded will solve that06:07
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack:  Yeah, but you need the correct version of the Qt Embedded SDK and the Motorola Libs06:08
neostrider-bzkMotorola added some crap over QT Embedded06:08
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: OpenEZX looks like a project to REPLACE the EZX OS entirely06:08
man_in_shacki sure hope none of my programming students do any of the deliberately disgusting things you're doing06:08
neostrider-bzkyou cant even run native code on unmodified phones06:08
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: Qt supports Windows Mobile just fine06:08
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neostrider-bzkman_in_shack: tell me - they have my time constraints? Or they do have enough time to properly code it?06:09
Luke-Jrnow you're just digging for excuses <.<06:09
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: I dont like Qt, Ok? I did all this code becouse I wanted to learn06:09
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: now youre being a real PITA06:09
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: learnign the wrong thing is worse than not learning at all06:09
man_in_shackneostrider-bzk, you said you've been doing this for 4 years. that's PLENTY of time to do it the RIGHT way06:09
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack: and little time to actually build the games I want to build06:10
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: you get points because it actually built on a 64-bit platform once I fixed your pipe2 issue06:10
Luke-Jrother than that, it is epic fail06:10
man_in_shack"a little time" over 4 years is how much exactly?06:10
neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr: No, its not.06:11
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack: what do you mean?06:11
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neostrider-bzkLuke-Jr:  this code is free. if you dont like it, just ignore it. For god's sake!06:11
man_in_shacki mean exactly what i said06:11
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: I plan to.06:11
man_in_shackneostrider-bzk, stop resisting education :P06:11
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack:  stop being so pedantic06:12
man_in_shackthis has nothing to do with being pedantic06:12
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: it would be different if you TRIED06:12
neostrider-bzkman_in_shack: basically, you're saying that only your way is the right way06:12
man_in_shackbeing pedantic is only ever using c-style comments06:12
Luke-Jrneostrider-bzk: this isn't about style, this is about doing it totally wrong06:12
man_in_shackneostrider-bzk, no, i'm saying your way is wrong06:12
man_in_shackdeliberate segfault is wrong06:13
Luke-JrI think my time will be better spent playing RuneQuake06:13
Luke-Jrman_in_shack: join me?06:13
Luke-Jrman_in_shack: connect ;)06:13
man_in_shackLuke-Jr, sounds like a better idea, yes :P06:13
man_in_shackunfortunately i can't06:13
neostrider-bzkI do I still bother listening to "the community"?06:13
neostrider-bzkI will just plain close the source...06:14
Luke-Jryou don't06:14
Luke-Jrclosing the source sounds good06:14
Luke-Jrthen it gets ignored automatically06:14
man_in_shackno one would notice06:14
Luke-Jrinstead of spending 30 mins deciding to ignore it06:14
neostrider-bzkGO PLAY F**** RUNEQUAKE06:14
man_in_shackno need to get abusive06:15
neostrider-bzk" man_in_shack prefers eclipse to netbeans, and eclipse is f***ing awful"06:15
neostrider-bzkin fact, you spelled more than me06:16
man_in_shackso now you're objecting to me getting abusive against IBM and ... who develops eclipse?06:16
neostrider-bzkif there's a rule about being abusive or not, you must obey whoever is the victim06:16
man_in_shacki object to you being abusive to Luke-Jr06:16
man_in_shackanyways, i gtg06:17
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neostrider-bzkany brave N800 owner willing to test my SDL game?06:22
neostrider-bzk (works with 770 and N810 - not even a single smoke puff)06:22
Luke-Jr(bad idea)06:22
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* neostrider-bzk happily ignores06:23
neostrider-bzk(Im sorry , benson)06:25
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bensonI got a N81006:36
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GAN800Howdy, benson.06:55
johnxmornin' GAN800 :)06:55
GAN800Hey, johnx.06:56
GAN800What's the word?06:56
johnxthe word is: OMGWTFwork!06:56
GAN800Back to school for me.06:57
johnxfun classes coming up?06:58
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GAN800Nothing particularly exicting. Just the math is going to kick my ass.07:00
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MaceN8x0is there a non hildon email client for  mer?07:03
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gogolwow shit's poppin in #maemo tonight07:30
gogoli wonder what #iphone is like.07:31
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zerojayPCWow... managed to get a REALLY weird error I've never seen before.07:38
zerojayPCDialog box... no ok or cancel buttons, lol07:38
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gogolgxmessage ?07:51
gogolgoddamn im bored.07:52
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andre__garrr. i fail to send mail to tim it seems. "passed_through_a_server_in_our_RBL"10:07
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Stskeepsmorning andre__10:08
andre__damn it. okay, let's use facebook for this10:10
Stskeepsfacebook is useful for things at times10:10
andre__yeah. when email is dead. like now :-P10:10
* Stskeeps is cleaning out his desk and machine at work10:11
andre__heh. i'll go to bed for another hour. got up way too early today :-P10:13
Stskeepsmy mind is totally fucked from having switched timezone10:13
pupnik_not sharp eh10:14
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Andy80hi all10:17
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Andy80Jaffa, ping11:23
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JaffaAndy80: pong11:30
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Andy80Jaffa, reading the t.m.o. can we consider people with "Y" in Majority column as "approved for sponsorship" or do we need another confirmation?11:33
JaffaAndy80: You can make that consideration, indeed.11:34
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Andy80ok, thanks11:35
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VDVsxeheh "Maemo-guru" :)11:46
JaffaNot syndicated to p.m.o AFAICT :-/11:46
VDVsxtrue, but should be IMO, at least the news section11:48
X-FadeTablet blog was.11:50
X-FadeSo if he has a redirect, it should still work.11:50
X-FadeAnd otherwise he should contact the person who is in charge of the planet ;)11:51
Andy80is maemo-guru an "official" Maemo website?11:51
X-FadeNo idea.11:51
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VDVsxAndy80, AFAIK, no11:52
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Andy80VDVsx, was suprised by the fact that Quim twitted it....11:53
Andy80since the home page contains a clear picture of N900 :)11:53
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JaffaOf course, calling it "maemo-guru" is a violation of the trademark policy, but... meh.11:53
JaffaI'm fed up of pointing that out to people.11:54
Andy80Jaffa, well... violation of trademark is a problem too, but I was talking about the not yet public stuff :P11:55
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X-FadeAndy80: Well, the picture is out there. Nobody seems to deny it? :)11:55
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Andy80X-Fade, you're right :)11:56
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Andy80X-Fade, this sounds to me like a well organized marketing strategy, more than just someone stealing information and publishing it :P but it's only my own hopinion11:57
VDVsxhumm, a lot of people are saying on twitter that maemo5 will be launched today o_012:00
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Andy80VDVsx, cannot find anything
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Stskeeps404? :P12:04
VDVsxthe twitts gone12:04
Andy80That page doesn't exist!12:04
VDVsxgona take a screeshot12:04
Andy80VDVsx, if you're going to fake it with photoshop I hope you're better than Microsoft's designers :D12:05
X-FadePics or it didn't happen :)12:06
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pupnik_yaay ukki made it12:07
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VDVsxthose 3 twitts gone12:08
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* crashanddie loathes twitter12:09
crashanddieI have applied for a murder permit for anyone who uses the "Twitter" word within 200 yards of me12:09
crashanddieI have a shotgun strapped under my desk, a .50 cal installed on the roof, and a desert eagle tucked away in the back of my jeans12:10
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pupnik_i hope twitter is a short lived fad12:11
VDVsxAndy80, also:
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johnxcrashanddie, you just said the T word. does that imply no more crashanddie?12:11
wazd <- Maemo for serious Dudes :)12:11
crashanddiejohnx: I am allowed to use the word, for anyone in my vicinity is either dead or smart enough to have jabbed out their ears12:12
Andy80VDVsx, well... you know, I suppose, how much weigth to give to these stuff :)12:12
wazdoh, it's Mer, sorry :D12:12
X-Fadewazd: Lol ;)12:13
X-Fadewazd: You need to move the spacebar more to the right..12:13
VDVsxAndy80, of course, just saying, otherwise I lose my bet :P12:13
wazdX-Fade: well, everyone is whinning bout right spacebar :)12:14
X-Fadewazd: Not me.12:14
X-FadeEasy to reach with thumb.12:15
JaffaLeft-Ctrl  might be more annoying (if it doesn't stick)12:15
kirmadoes e900 have green and red buttons on top? I thought not.12:15
X-FadeJaffa: Of course it will stick :)12:15
wazdoptical scroll, anyone? :)12:16
wazdbetween call buttons12:17
kirmaalso, at least the buttons on ther leftmost column are different from photos I've seen12:17
wazdkirma: thats e900, not n90012:17
X-Fadekirma: wazd is making this all up. It is just a mockup ;)12:17
wazdX-Fade: It's Nokia's leaked press render actually ;)12:18
kirma ... quite different12:19
kirmawell, maybe they had made some real magic with cyrillic layout version12:19
wazdkirma: dude, it's another device, I've drawn it :)12:19
kirmaah, *E*90012:19
pupnik_kick ASS wazd12:19
kirmadamn it12:19
X-Fadekirma: wazd haz madd skilzz12:20
pupnik_thing is, smaller keys require more rounded tops, require more vertical space12:21
kirmagf refuses to give me a hint if they're releasing more than just N900 for a E90 replacement next week. I'd certainly like more than three-line keyboard.12:21
JaffaAndy80: VDVsx: on the thing, not just qgil tweeting it:
pupnik_but i would gladly sacrifice and accept a thicker n90012:21
kirmabut urge for linux device might be stronger ;)12:21
Stskeepswell symbian-guru is quite popular isn't it?12:21
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pupnik_with *that* keyboard12:21
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oilinkido you know if there is alternative solutions for keyboards? phone keys are always too small to write.12:23
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kirmaI've found E90 (and earlier E70) keyboards quite useable12:24
oilinkiI have seen some foldable bluetooth keyboars, but never tested if it's possible to write with those12:24
VDVsxoilinki, on screen keyboard ?12:24
kirmanot really replacements for full keyboards, but good enough not to go back to non-qwerty12:24
oilinkion screen is not good to write12:24
VDVsxoilinki, so a good bluetooth one :)12:24
X-FadeBT keybord works.12:24
pupnik_oilinki foldable bluetooth lets me type 2x as fast as thumbing text12:24
oilinkiloing time ago I read of some guy who had an tricycle and used to write code while cycling. he was using some variation of a keyboard for each hand/handle.12:25
oilinkieg. press one key on right hand, and another with left to produce letter A.12:26
kirmaeither he's driving middle of nowhere, or not really writing too deep code12:26
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kirmaor he's serious danger to his environment12:26
oilinkiI'm after some kind of solution where the phone/computer could be on the table. write text with hands on the lap. have a small screen next to eye.12:28
oilinkior possible projected to the wall with the new pico-projectors12:29
pupnik_anybody know people i could talk to who can embed precise mirrors into teansparent plastic?12:29
wazd <- some more E-look :)12:30
pupnik_nm i just figured out the process12:31
* pupnik_ signs up in wazd's army12:34
X-Fadewazd: When will we see the X910 express music? :)12:34
kirmayou know your interests are way too skewed when you spend considerable amount of time sketching fan versions of your favourite hardware manufacturers' products :I12:35
wazdX-Fade: When I'll have insomnia next time :D12:35
oilinkiwazd: use more selling domain name '' for example and start making money with the advertises ;)12:37
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kirmablinking anatomy site ads on the sketch screen?12:37
wazdoilinki: well, I'd gladly start making money on something more reliable :)12:37
wazdoilinki: day job for example :D12:38
kirmaor "congratulations! you're the millionth visitor!"12:38
pupnik_how bout a flush face tablet, slightly larger than n810, maybe with 1024x60012:38
oilinkiwazd: that might be better :)12:38
pupnik_or (crazyness) a clamshell from nokia, with a 5-6" screen12:39
wazdpupnik_: smartbook? :)12:39
pupnik_too big for pocket12:40
wazdpupnik_: it's upcomming, according to rumors12:40
* Andy80 wants a 22'' tablet to work with Autocad while in bus :)12:40
pupnik_still must fit pocket12:40
wazdToo bad that I suck at 3D12:40
Andy80well... I can buy clothes with pocket that can contain a 22'' :D12:41
pupnik_i think nokia could push through to a new consumer base12:41
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pupnik_jump to 1024x600, keep it pocketable, mid-price-point12:42
pupnik_give it a super-ergonomic curved thumbboard12:43
pupnik_websites on 4.3 is still too crazy12:44
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johnxsmall, fast, cheap: pick any 212:44
johnxI prefer my monitors 4:5 :)12:44
johnxanyways, off to sleep12:44
pupnik_oh heres another invention for yÃ'all - i a browser, implement "link glow" - a shaded halo around a link that extends a number of pixels beyond the sctual link text (except on sides abutting other links) -- this would make clicking links much much easier12:45
pupnik_remember - link halos, link glow12:46
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X-Fadejeremiah: ping?13:00
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pupnik_getting a calloused left thumb here...13:11
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andre__sigh. i try to reproduce one bug and run into four new ones. i guess it's normal, but still... frustrating13:47
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andre__yeah. at the end of this day i will be quite sarcastic, probably...13:52
Jaffaandre__: Can I manage my own versions for the _Attitude_ product, or do I need you to do it? (We should look at a way of getting versions for extras' products synced from extras-testing)13:53
nomisandre__: how long did that take you?13:53
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* nomis ponders calculating the amount of bugs you have at the end of the day.13:54
VDVsxandre__, it's intentional to keep you working all the time :) ... those bastards ;)13:54
andre__beware, this is exponential :-P13:55
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nomisandre__: only if you manage to discover the subsequent bugs of those 4 bugs in the same time you used to discover those 4 first bugs. Wait, you are? Wow!  :)13:56
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Stskeeps'lo kalikiana, csaavedra13:57
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konttori_Hi All!13:58
_berto_hi hi13:58
Jaffahi konttori_!13:58
konttori_ Future is here! Finally! <------ GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO \o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/14:00
wazdkonttori_: wow!14:00
konttori_  Take a look at that! Bujaka!14:00
VDVsxso the twitters are right ;)14:01
* qwerty12_N810 lights a celebratory joint14:01
qwerty12_N810wazd: if they have a job for "logo designer" or something, please say that you'll take it :)14:02
wazddaft punk? :D14:02
X-FadeI like the headphone btw..14:03
oilinkigreat. finally.14:03
Corsac for the specs, btw14:04
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wazdkonttori_: damn, you've ruined my mockup hype, bastard :D14:05
zerojayPCLooks like last night's tweet about the launch was right after all. ;)14:05
Stskeepsalready today?14:05
JaffaAny tmo mods awake? Two threads need merging14:05
wazdno favicon btw14:06
qwerty12_N810"Copy and paste without restrictions"14:06
JaffaPress release says 500eur exc. sales tax14:06
qwerty12_N810You go Nokia.14:06
slonopotamusIntegrated FM transmitter o_O14:07
qwerty12_N810Meanwhile, I'll fap to their image gallery.14:07
Corsac500€, ouch14:07
zerojayPCqwerty12_N810: We won't be sharing a room at Maemo Summit then. ;)14:08
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zerojayPCOur baby has grown up so much.14:08
wazdkonttori_: I have a bug, when I click "portrait mode" in 360 view, flash 10 says that something is wrong14:09
Myrttithe database error is a bitch14:09
X-Fade"Database Error: Unable to connect to your database. Your database appears to be turned off or the database connection settings in your config file are not correct. Please contact your hosting provider if the problem persists."14:09
VDVsxMyrtti, yeh :(14:09
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: ooh, it's Ovi all over again!14:09
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Corsacwhere's the press release?14:09
VDVsxvery cool video btw ;)14:09
zerojayPCWhat database error?14:10
konttori_wazd, works for me. But i think I have flash 914:10
slonopotamus800x480 screen and video recording up to 848 × 480 pixels... where they're going to put 48 pixels?14:10
zerojayPCThe video's going SO slow for me.. lol14:10
qwerty12_N810"Adobe Flash™ 9.4 support" :\14:10
oilinkitv-out is great. can use as movie player for traveling.14:11
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slonopotamusoilinki, you're carrying tv set with you? :)14:11
konttori_oilinki, see why I have been busy. Sorry for not getting back to you14:11
oilinkislonopotamus: there are tv:s on the hotels :) or just get an portable projector14:12
wazdkonttori_: no, it works, but shows error14:12
oilinkikonttori_: I understand. priorities might go for the launch :)14:12
wazdwhat's the music in the video?)14:12
zerojayPCPeter@Maemo is saying N900 is available October 2009 in select markets.14:13
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wazdYou know what, I'm proud that I was here before today :)14:14
slonopotamus500€... that's going to become 800€ here :)14:14
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zerojayPCwazd: Yeah, same here.14:15
JaffaThis device is going to rock.14:17
* Jaffa is so excited to be going to Nokia World next week :-)14:17
zerojayPCI am jumping up and down.14:18
X-FadeBut the intro video is pretty awesome, yes.14:18
VDVsxso, we will need a task switcher in each app ? :(14:18
zerojayPCAnd as a 350 pound man in an old apartment building, that's quite a risk.14:18
pupnik_any "service" provided by the folks with guns to our heads will be inferior to voluntary purchases in an open market14:18
JaffaVDVsx: ?14:19
JaffaVDVsx: It looks like you press the top-left and you get an Expose-like affect14:19
konttori_where's the price?14:19
Stskeepson press announcement i think14:19
zerojayPC500 euros.14:19
zerojayPCBefore taxes and subsidies.14:19
Jaffakonttori_: Press release14:19
VDVsxJaffa, but you need to add it to your app, if it's a fullcscreen app (e.g games), I guess14:20
crashanddieonly 256 RAM :(14:20
JaffaVDVsx: As long as you've got a way out to the app menu screen (maemo-games-launcher on diablo has the same issue if you ignore the "Home" key)14:21
VDVsx_berto_, key combo ?14:21
VDVsxto go to the dashboard ? :)14:21
VDVsxah, there's a button :)14:22
crashanddie"TV out (PAL/NTSC) with Nokia Video Connectivity Cable (CA-75U, included in box) or WLAN/UPnP"14:22
crashanddiewait, what?14:22
X-FadeDNLA tv, yes ;)14:22
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wazd_berto_: Quim looks like silent Emperror there :D14:23
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_berto_yes :D14:23
X-FadeDid you see the circular motion to zoom? :)14:23
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_berto_yes we did14:25
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konttori_jussi had in youtube video transmission bittorrent client on desktop!14:27
JaffaVDVsx: Looks like Ctrl-Backspace opens the dashboard14:27
VDVsxJaffa, yup ;)14:28
qwerty12_N810konttori_: if he has complaints, send them my way :p14:28
crashanddieX-Fade: not sure I like that14:28
Stskeepsanother device demonstrated with qwerty12 software ;)14:28
crashanddieX-Fade: does the screen take multi-touch?14:28
Stskeepstwo-touch probably14:28
X-Fadecrashanddie: fake multitouch yes.14:28
crashanddiewhat, with lcuk hack?14:29
X-Fadecrashanddie: like your tablet does now.14:29
crashanddiemy tablet?14:29
* crashanddie doesn't have a tablet14:29
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X-Fadecrashanddie: Well like any resistive touchscreen can.14:31
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Stskeepsyay skype14:33
zeenixStskeeps: "integrated" skype :)14:33
wazdStskeeps: well, that was obvious14:33
wazdStskeeps: Skype guy at the summit and stuff :P14:33
Stskeepshmm, where's A2DP?14:33
qwerty12_N810It says "stereo headset" or something on stats page14:33
zchydemso it's finally published...14:34
qwerty12_N810The Poles will be happy. They had to localise OS2008 themselves last time :)14:35
StskeepsFinding Maemo?14:35
qwerty12_N810Oh, extra points to Nokia for placing British English before American English14:35
_berto_yet another video ->
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nomisoh, FM *transmitter*.14:37
wazddamn, I think I just got hot :D14:38
X-Fade_berto_: Like the 'Mom calling' in that one ;)14:38
qwerty12_N810wazd: (and rest of OMweather crew) congrats on kicking Foreca's ass :p14:39
wazdanyony knows what's the music in the first promo?14:39
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wazdqwerty12_N810: oh, that's just the beginning :D14:39
wazdqwerty12_N810: we have whole box of nails :)14:39
JaffaStskeeps: They stole my idea! and
Stskeepshaha :P14:40
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wazdlawl :D14:41
aspectFM transmitter? wut?14:41
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* Jaffa was a bit bored during an OSiM World session last year14:41
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jeremiahHow ya like me now iPhone!14:42
qwerty12_N810~burn iPhone14:42
* infobot pours gasoline all over iPhone, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze14:42
wazdjeremiah: he's not responding, cardiac :D14:42
Myrttiaspect: of course it has it14:43
mikkov_X-Fade: how is linking to bugzilla?14:44
X-Fademikkov_: I added that link manually.14:44
mikkov_X-Fade: for Wormux?14:44
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X-Fademikkov_: Yes.14:45
jeremiahHmmm. So Maemo-select is like "fremantle stars"?14:46
mikkov_X-Fade: yeah, I was wondering where did that come from and why none of the other packages have it ;)14:46
X-Fadejeremiah: Select items from the Downloads catalog.14:46
Stskeeps <- thumbs up for 'sudo gainroot' instead of jailbreak :>14:46
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X-Fadejeremiah: Once we have applications in there.14:46
jeremiahAh, okay. :)14:46
jeremiahLooks like they say things like OMweather and Mauku will be there.14:47
javispedroah,announcement morning after all14:47
X-Fademikkov_: Yeah, was testing the entry. You will be able to add these links soon.14:47
thopiekarhi all14:47
thopiekarhi jeremiah, X-Fade :)14:47
timelessjeremiah: sadly the web site suffers from iPhone 2 envy14:47
aspectMyrtti: odd. I didn't expect that -- thought it might be an oversight like "first maemo device" :)14:47
javispedroso destiny was right after all :P14:47
jeremiahtimeless: I think it is a lot better than the iPhone14:47
jeremiahbut I am biased. :)14:47
mikkov_X-Fade: I think that I am constantly losing login when browsing
timelessit seems to think we could do better than iPhone 2 but didn't notice iPhone 3 has been on the market for a while14:48
Jaffamikkov_: Known, old bug.14:48
jeremiahI think, for the first time, the iPhone has met its "killer"14:48
timeless_mbpjeremiah: anyway14:48
timeless_mbpi need help w/ packages14:48
timeless_mbpi still need a solution14:48
timeless_mbpand as you can see, i need it really fast :)14:48
jeremiahtimeless_mbp: I thought you decided not to uninstall?14:48
timeless_mbpwell, as long as you guys agree to promote me14:48
timeless_mbpthat's fine :)14:48
timeless_mbpbut then i need someone to promote :)14:48
javispedrolol advertising "copy&paste"14:49
jeremiahI'll promote!14:49
timeless_mbpjavispedro: iPhone 2 envy14:49
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javispedrodamn world.14:49
timeless_mbpjeremiah: ok14:49
X-FadeJaffa: non known, side effect of adding new server into the cluster.14:49
jeremiahI'm a promotion whore. =]14:49
timeless_mbpjeremiah: ok cool14:49
timeless_mbpi should have my strings ready by tomorrow or sunday14:49
X-Fademikkov_: Problem will go away soon.14:49
Myrttiaspect: why not? n97 has it, n86 has it...14:49
jeremiahBut I think you need more than just little ole me14:49
oilinkiis there sip/voip support for n900?14:50
timeless_mbpi'll have to do one merge14:50
timeless_mbpoilinki: sure14:50
timeless_mbpgtalk and skype too14:50
jeremiahoilinki: You mean like skype?14:50
timeless_mbpyou can configure  a "normal" sip thing if you like14:50
Myrttioilinki: sip/voip works even in n80014:50
oilinkitimeless_mbp: ok. good14:50
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oilinkijeremiah: no, real voip ;)14:51
jeremiahoilinki: In short, Yes.14:51
timeless_mbpoilinki: in general we haven't dropped features14:51
oilinkiMyrtti: I know, I'm using it. but I just did not see it mentioned yet.14:51
JaffaX-Fade: People (incl. me) have been moaning about the " forgets your login, even after half an hour" issue for months (if not years). Answer was "increased PHP session timeout" (didn't fix it), then "SSO will fix it"14:51
timeless_mbpsadly, your old mini usb cards won't work :)14:51
X-FadeJaffa: No, that has been fixed weeks ago.14:51
jeremiahoilinki: VoIP is just "Voice over Internet Protocol"14:51
jeremiahIts not the device that can or can't do it - its the networks that allow it, sniff the packets, block ports, etc.14:52
oilinkijeremiah: correct.14:52
jeremiahOf course the device has to speak IP14:52
mikkov_Jaffa: only packages interface has the problem now14:52
jeremiahBut my toaster does that14:52
mikkov_*login problem14:53
wazdGRUm - GO BACK :D14:53
wazdIt's shown in the promo :D14:53
wazdthat song :)14:53
javispedro^^ points to maemo4 sdk14:53
javispedrolol :)14:53
qwerty12_N810It's a test. If you can withstand Maemo 4's old libs, you've passed and can use Maemo 5's SDK :p14:54
javispedroheh, they link to here too14:54
javispedroexpect the phone-loving to come here en-masse14:54
JaffaX-Fade: Hmm, OK. Cool14:54
jeremiahPrepare for the n00b flood14:54
Stskeepsi wonder when SDK will be out14:55
thopiekarthe site looks amazing! would like to see that style on, too14:55
javispedrothe site looks good, but I think it's bigger than 800px wide?14:55
nomisjeremiah: O RLY?14:55
nomisjeremiah: WOOOT!14:55
lardman someone should change the title of the Maemo 5 SDK to say "For N900" or similar14:56
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mikkov_n900 specs don't say how big is the filesystem where apps are installed (device flash or what ever)?14:56
lardmanand probably also push the current internal SDK to a 1.0 release too14:56
qwerty12_N810...and include a task-switcher!14:57
qwerty12_N810I'm currently using wmctrl for the beta SDK >.<14:57
lardmanX-Fade: you doing website triage?14:57
javispedroHistory in browser-ui looks cool14:57
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X-Fadelardman: Only admin issues.14:58
lardmanX-Fade: there are link issues (linking to wrong page) on the development page14:58
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X-Fadelardman: Not those ;)14:58
lardmanis anyone, I may as well ping them14:58
oilinkianyway. this is the first non-nerd maemo device :)14:58
nomisMhm, I wonder if the device is smaller than the N810.14:59
X-Fadelardman: Dave?14:59
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lardmanok, will send him an email14:59
javispedrook, site looks cool. even tho it has still a long way to come if they want to compete with apple. apple would have put a big large photo of the phone, the price, a big "Buy Now" link, nothing more and expect the clicks.14:59
ziyourenxiangaccording to gsmarena: 59.7mm x 111mm x 18.2mm14:59
ziyourenxiangquite fat14:59
ziyourenxiangweighs 180g15:00
Jaffajavispedro: N900 can't compete (except at the margins) with iPhone. Pre, Android, WinMo et al are the real competitors.15:00
javispedroaka those users who can be "bought" by features.15:01
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Jaffaziyourenxiang: About the same size as a G1. Doesn't look that big when next to real hands (although it soounds good)15:02
tbfJaffa: why, cause it's missing job's reality distortion field?15:02
ziyourenxiangyeah...i own a g1... i'm ready to ditch the g1 for n900...15:03
ziyourenxiangto get at the linux underneath15:03
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javispedrobah, outlook calendar sync?15:03
ziyourenxiangandroid was a false promise to me :-)15:03
Stskeepshehe, impressive how many nokians are in today :)15:03
javispedrohere at channel still not much more people than usual15:04
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iPhone_to_Maemo5Where can I buy the new Maemo 5?15:05
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iPhone_to_Maemo5meh, that is an iPhone.15:05
iPhone_to_Maemo5I already had one of those.15:05
iPhone_to_Maemo5I sold it on ebay.15:05
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Maemo5_to_iPhoneThanks for saying that. The brainwashing van has been sent to your home for your own security. Please wait patiently and open the door when the Apple representative arrives.15:06
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Jaffatbf: The average person in the street isn't aware of the RDF. The iPhone has momentum and cache. The N900 will be wildly more popular than any previous Maemo device, but not quite enough to unseat the iPhone yet :-)15:07
javispedrohey, we can do our own community version of the RDF?15:07
javispedroso where we put the main generators, alaska?15:07
lardmanwell we're up to 422 users on Talk, not quite up there with the 637 from 31st Mar '0815:07
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: next to your bulldozer ;)15:07
javispedroheh, Jussi playing Star Trek on the N90015:08
javispedrovery appropiate, hope the next video shows the tricorder skin15:08
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* konttori_ can probably now publish theme maker! woohoo!15:11
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mikkov_I'd call that local root exploit15:14
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oilinkisome more questions about n900 features. is there fm-radio as well?15:15
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wazdoilinki: yep15:15
Stskeepsfm radio transmission, that is15:16
Stskeepsat least according to spec15:16
oilinkiok. let me re-define, is there fm-receiver :)15:16
X-FadeWell the chip did have a receiver right?15:16
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Stskeepsi think kernel changed chip mid-way15:16
X-FadeBut there doesn't seem to be any software.15:16
javispedroI cant find it either in the specs15:17
lardmanoilinki: yes15:17
X-Fadejavispedro: Was not in the N800 specs either ;)15:17
lardmanStskeeps: really?15:17
oilinkilardman: ok. thanks15:17
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aol_any word of n900 dev discounts? :)15:17
nomisHaving RDS available would be cool.15:17
javispedrowow, Sharp makes a comeback today too15:18
lardmanoilinki: though wait 1, see what Stskeeps says15:18
* nomis could polish his TMC decoding stuff... :)15:18
lardmanyeah I plan on doing that too :)15:18
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lardmannomis: you have working code?15:18
Stskeepslardman: there was differences between alpha and beta i think15:18
lardmanhmm, ok15:18
lardmanGAN800: ping15:19
nomislardman: yes. Python script, decoding from a v4l radio device.15:19
lardmannomis: nice15:19
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lardmannomis: I was planning on decoding the UK obfuscated formaty15:19
lardmannomis: do you have a link?15:19
nomislardman: oh, I have code cracking as well - but no plans on publishing this  :)15:20
lardmannomis: sharing then if not cracking? ;) Are you in the uk?15:20
nomislardman: not really a link yet, drop me a mail at and I'll collect some code. I am in .de.15:21
GAN800lardman, pong?15:21
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jeremiahheh, #N900 trending on twitter15:21
nomislardman: sorry, away for some food now, love to discuss this stuff.15:22
jeremiahlooks like we have a hit on our hands15:22
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lardmanGAN800: was just wondering about Stskeeps's comment and whether you had an uptodate hw list?15:22
lardmannomis: en route15:23
aquatixjavispedro: you have a link about that Sharp comeback?15:23
RST38hmoo all15:24
jeremiahmoo RST38h15:24
RST38hOfficial announcement?15:24
StskeepsRST38h: yeah15:24
RST38hAllAboutSymbian says N900 has 800x600 touch screen =)15:24 & press release15:24
RazumihinN900 looks a lot better than i hoped for.15:24
qwerty12_N810RST38h: why would you trust a Symbian site? :)15:25
javispedrothe best good news is the 500€ price, still too high but hey, every penny saved is welcomed.15:25
aol_it's still too thick15:25
RazumihinIt's still too small :)15:25
aol_18mm is a lot. but I guess everyone knows nokia is not stopping there15:25
RST38hqwerty: Do I? =)15:26
RST38htoo thick, too small, too expensive, and not an iphone15:26
X-Fadeaol_: N95 is thicker. No problem for me.15:26
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RazumihinOh hell i should make some work instead of reading the news ;)15:26
lardmanhmm, I see an si4713 now, which is a TX only device15:26
RST38hwhat a disaster, right? =)15:26
javispedroalready registered15:26 may be available15:27
oilinkilardman: that was for the fm tx only? thanks.15:27
RST38hAha, Fennec is announced15:27
aquatixjavispedro: interesting device15:27
lardmanoilinki: am reading kernel diff, just the first one I've found, there may be others in there15:28
oilinkilardman: sounds like real detective work15:28
lardmanI see a TEA576115:29
lardmanno RDS anything with that though15:30
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qwerty12_N810lardman: that's the one in the N80015:30
oilinkithen another question. can n900 work as wlan accespoint? With 3G/WLAN it could work the same way as JoikuSpot on symbian (ad-hoc ap).15:30
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Stskeepsti1271 last i saw15:30
Stskeepscheck out linux kernel for host mode :P15:30
lardmanthat does Bt + FM receive + RDS receive15:30
javispedroso, not all n900 misteries are solved.15:31
tuukkahhmm, what does "push email" mean in the context of maemo?15:31
RST38hAh, the keyboard buttons light up and beep when you press them!15:31
GeneralAntilles1024px minimum for a tablet site.15:31
* RST38h is weeping the tears of extasy now15:31
X-Fadetuukkah: push mail over 3G.15:31
* GeneralAntilles slaps Nokia.15:31
javispedroGeneralAntilles, yeah, that's very, very ironic15:31
X-Fadetuukkah: like blackberry etc.15:32
ziyourenxiangare you guys holding the device in your hands?15:32
lardmanStskeeps: that's a wifi module isn't it?15:32
RST38hGeneral: Notice that Fennec is now officially announced15:32
Stskeepslardman: oilinki's question15:32
RST38hGeneral: Unless AAS screwed up again of course15:32
lardmanStskeeps: ah no worries :)15:32
Myrttituukkah: ohai15:33
tuukkahX-Fade, is there a standard? the material says this supports "mail for exchange" and "favourite services including Microsoft Live Hotmail, Yahoo! Mail, and Google Mail"15:33
lardmansee if I2C_BCM2048 is set in the defconfig15:33
tuukkahMyrtti, hai :-)15:33
lardmanyeah looks good for that BCM number, there's a driver in there anyway15:34
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lardmanCONFIG_I2C_BCM2048=m in the defconfig15:34
* lardman is happy now15:35
lardmanand will be happier when someone Nokian releases the dmesg output ;)15:35
javispedrohope that's early15:35
javispedroit's announced, so let's troll tmo until we get some nokian to do it ;)15:35
RST38hEeeehehe, rotating your finger in clockwise direction zooms in the web page :)))15:36
RST38hCounterclockwise rotation unzooms it15:36
lardmanjavispedro: +115:36
javispedroRST38h, (cheap imitation of pinch gesture)15:36
javispedrobtw, the zoom hard buttons are gone?15:36
GeneralAntillesSuck an Apple-esque website.15:36
RST38hjavis: still there according to pictures15:36
Jaffajavispedro: Easier to do one handed I ia15:37
infobotJaffa meant: javispedro: Easier to do one handed I imagine15:37
javispedroyeah, don't mind as long as it's an "extra" way to do15:37
RST38hNotice a very interesting change in their marketing pitches: they now advertise N900 as a device that does everything you home computer can do15:37
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* RST38h wondering if they actually stay on this theme and bring up the office tools to Maemo15:38
JaffaOr Eclipse ;-)15:38
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* RST38h throws up at Jaffa15:39
tbfJaffa: lol. you don't want to use eclipse with a three-rows keyboard15:39
RST38h(you asked for it Jaffa =))15:39
tbfJaffa: for mail and chat three rows are good enough...15:39
javispedroheh, I run Eclipse in a 333Mhz celeron with 192 MiB of RAM, so why it shouldn't run in the N900 ?15:39
RST38hBut a working JVM is a must of course15:39
tbfjavispedro: because of the small keyboard?15:39
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Jaffatbf: True15:39
JaffaRST38h: I'm not going to hold my breath on that coming from Nokia15:40
GeneralAntillesThey better ship something with AT&T 3G bands.15:40
javispedrotbf, well, then pair your wiimote and you get a few extra keys ;)15:40
GeneralAntillesOctober ship date will suck15:40
RST38hWhoever wondered, Skype is on the new device15:40
GeneralAntillesThat better be early October.15:40
suihkulokkijavispedro: run? did you mean walk or crawl?15:40
RST38hJaffa: Would be weird if they do not provide MIDP really...15:40
JaffaRST38h: *nods*15:40
RST38hJaffa: Actually it is weird nobody has provided single-click installable MIDP by now15:40
javispedrosuihkulokki, run. Of course, you have to take care (not autobuilding stuff, etc.)15:41
GeneralAntillesThey're missing scrollbars in that "Full web standards support" screenshot.15:41
Macerwindows vista: getting more done just got fun15:41
* Macer just simply can not find the relationship between OS install and "fun"15:41
RST38hSomebody should tell site designer to avoid using "3D letters" feature in his Photoshop15:42
Macersome guy totally screwed up his company laptop15:42
Macerwhat a bastard15:42
StskeepsMacer: if you didn't go already15:42
Maceri mean like there was so much spyware and so many trojans... :)15:42
MacerStskeeps: ?15:42
Stskeepsgo see.15:42
RST38hAha, Flash is also on the new device15:42
javispedroyeah, old version of flash (< 10)15:43
Maceroh wow15:43
RST38hjavis: how do you know?15:43
qwerty12_N810Wait 'till the people whine about how they won't be buying it because it's 9.4 ;)15:43
StskeepsJaffa: you're going to nokia world? congrats15:43
RST38hqwerty: ah screw 'em15:43
JaffaStskeeps: Representing the "Maemo community"15:43
GeneralAntillesThey're kidding, right? ""15:44
MacerMaemo is available on the Nokia N900 - a high-performance mobile computer15:44
StskeepsJaffa: better not be smelling of dead cheese then15:44
lardmanwork time, bbl15:44
Macerthey are calling it a "mobile computer"15:44
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Macerthat is great!15:44
qwerty12_N810RST38h: my sentiments exactly :)15:44
javispedroRST38h, "Flash 9.4 support"
RST38hMacer: they are calling stuff mobile computers since n9515:44
RST38hjavis: fine with me really15:44
* Myrtti still loves her N95!15:44
MacerRST38h: well. they called n8x0s "internet tablets"15:44
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jadamsis the n900 multitouch capable?15:45
RST38hjavis: Although if I were really concerned I would talk Quim into wrestling flash player source from Adobe15:45
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Macerthat thing is absolutely beautiful15:45
KhertanHello !15:45
Macerhow much will they start selling them for?15:45
RST38hjavis: Because FORMALLY that player is "open source" :)15:45
Macer$800? :)15:45
StskeepsMacer: 500 eur15:45
RST38hMacer: eur50015:45
Stskeepsbefore taxes15:45
Macerso $5000 US?15:45
RST38hMacer: $500 for us, I guess15:45
Khertanso 650E in france15:46
MacerRST38h: euro has a little more value than US15:46
Khertanoh my god there is the official announce !15:46
andre__RST38h, adobe flash player source? :-D gnash or swfdec might make more sense... (though both don't get many updates anymore it seems...)15:46
Macerlike 1.4:1 or something like that?15:46
javispedroI don't give a damn either about flash, as long as youtube does not start using 10 (which I doubt considering this)15:46
Maceri havecn't checked in a while15:46
timeless_mbpnomis: i believe that we don't have any data path setup for RDS15:46
qwerty12_N810javispedro: @scene FTW15:46
timeless_mbpso it'll be like the fm-radio in the n80015:46
timeless_mbppossible, but requires plumbing15:46
Macerthat isn't too bad though15:46
Maceraround $600US or so15:46
Maceri expected it to be higher15:46
RST38handre: Well, you see, at some point Adobe advertised its flash player as open source, revealed to interested parties15:47
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RST38handre: I.e. theoretically you CAN get the sources, but you have to be a suit, with some organization behind you15:47
Maceri mean. the e90 was selling for $900 or so when it came out15:48
Macerand it was running symbian15:48
Maceri still don't understand that15:48
andre__RST38h, ah, i see what you mean15:48
jadamsyeah, if it's ~$600 i'll be buying one asap.  they're available today?15:48
jadams(well, wait until payday, but...)15:48
jadamsI can live15:48
RST38handre: If somebody talks Quim into being that suit and a few guys step forward to work on the code, this may be possible15:48
Maceryou probably won't be able to get one for a while15:49
Macerthe world is going to suck them up15:49
Macerlike the Wii :-\15:49
andre__RST38h, adobe seems to have a busted definition of "open source" if you're allowed to take a look after signing lots of paperwork. with taht argumentation microsoft windows is open source too15:49
RST38hNOTE: DivX codec is not onboard15:49
RST38handre: Who gives a fuck about their definition?15:49
RST38handre: hey can define it any way they like, I would be only interested in whether there is a way to get the code from them15:50
StskeepsRST38h: is XviD? :P15:50
GeneralAntillesOoh, grats mikkov on bug #500015:50
MacerStskeeps: haha15:50
RST38hSts: Xvid is there15:50
Stskeeps(who cares about divx)15:50
Macerdivx = commercial xvid :)15:50
RST38hGeneral: waiting for bug #6666 now...15:51
andre__GeneralAntilles, we could have a competition in a few months (years) when we have #8000 when #10000 is going to be filed. mozilla has that from time to time...15:51
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: And it was for me :(15:51
Macerlast i checked xvid codecs can play divx15:51
Macerminus the "chapters"15:51
RST38hHmmm...Nokia is REALLY pushing that "raw computer power" slogan15:51
X-FadeThese codecs run on special hardware, they aren't software codecs running on the cpu.15:52
ShadowJKlol at 3 row keyboard being full qwerty15:52
RST38hHow long until we get people coming to talk.m.o with complaints about it being slow?15:52
Macerwell.. compared to the n8x0.. the newer arm is pretty fast15:52
* andre__ filing half a dozen of application manager bugs. sigh15:52
ShadowJKThe "chapters" stuff doesn't depend on codecs anyway15:52
Macerat least i can send Stskeeps my n810 if i can get a hold of an n90015:52
Stskeepsi'd send it to Meizirkki who's N810 screen cracked, heh15:53
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ShadowJKxvid and divx is the same thing, it just depends on the player not being stupid and feeding it to the codec15:53
slonopotamusrkirti != Myrtti != Meizirkki ?15:53
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: those are three different people15:54
rkirtislonopotamus: ???????15:54
slonopotamusrkirti, dunno, your nicknames are similar :)15:54
Myrttithe hell they are15:54
* Stskeeps passes slonopotamus more vodka15:55
aol_err, similar how :D15:55
aol_all end with i ? :)15:55
Maceroh goddamnit15:55
slonopotamusat least MaceN8x0 == Macer == RepMace?15:55
VDVsxmore and more videos: ;)15:56
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RST38hShit, I have to go and miss all the fun15:57
ShadowJKhm... skype isn't listed as feature15:58
andre__ShadowJK, skype is mentioned on
zerojaySkype's integrated in the contacts app now.15:58
RST38hShadowJK: there is a screenshot of skype15:58
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zerojayCollabora just got facebook chat working in fremantle.15:59
zerojayThrough contacts.15:59
* X-Fade likes the move there you hold the device in one hand and close the slide with the fingers on the back of the device.16:00
ShadowJKaw, no .mkv support in the media player? :-)16:01
RST38hSomebody will add goddamn .mkv16:01
ShadowJKI wonder how closed-off the media stuff is, if it's possible to use the acceleration for arbitrary content16:01
X-FadeShadowJK: Just DLNA it ?16:01
LoCusFsomeone port vlc to it :)16:01
RST38hX-Fade: that would be cheating =)16:01
qwerty12_N810As long as it can play my Pir^H^H^H movies, I'm OK.16:01
X-FadeRST38h: That would be awesome ;)16:01
ShadowJKX-Fade, that's like transcoding except you need a computer fast enough to do it realtime?16:02
X-FadeSame for sending images and movies to my tv.16:02
doc|homeanyone know if there'll be canadian telcos taking on the n900?16:03
Corsacok so what's this e900?16:04
Stskeepswazd's new Nokla line16:04
zerojaySweet.. Upload queue for photos that you can tell "wait until i'm on wifi before uploading"16:06
Khertane900 isn't from nokia ... it s a samsung phone :
Corsacis 500€ expensive for a phone like that?16:06
Stskeepsi'd say cheap tbh16:07
doc|homeI hate to say it, but someone has to. This thing makes the iphone look expensive16:07
doc|homeCorsac: ^16:07
GeneralAntillesWhat wants to start the "Jon Reece is a creeper" club?16:07
ShadowJK500E at the start would be less than many other phones in the same kind of performance class16:07
doc|homeCorsac: what would an equivalent storaged iphone set you back?16:07
X-Fadedoc|home: This will mean it is free with a 2 year subscription in NL for instance.16:07
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Khertanis 500€  << is it an official price ?16:07
doc|homeX-Fade: that's great, hopefully we can get the same in canuckistan16:07
Khertana world wide ?16:07
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Who wants to start the "Jon Reece is a creeper" club?16:07
doc|homeKhertan: you might see it for 550 usd16:08
GeneralAntillesOne thing's for sure, that's some pretty slick multitasking.16:08
doc|homeKhertan: maybe a bit more, that's how they often work16:08
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Khertan550 usd ... so in french euro it will be 75016:08
zerojayThat's some pretty slick *16:08
doc|homeany mention of battery life?16:08
Corsacdoc|home: I have no idea how much is an iphone?16:08
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X-FadeScrolling desktop is cool too.16:08
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ShadowJKI can't get that video to play, the nokia server is giving me 404 :x16:09
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, shouldn't be radically different than the current tablets.16:09
doc|homeKhertan: no, they're saying October for ?500 (pre tax and pre carrier subsidy)16:09
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: thanks16:09
GeneralAntillesLess standby time (i.e., 2-4 days instead of 7-30) because of GSM.16:09
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doc|homethat's fine16:09
doc|homehmmm, what would talk time be?16:10
ShadowJKaround 4 hours probably16:10
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doc|homeerk, not great, but usable at least16:10
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GeneralAntilles9 on GSM, apparently.16:11
Corsacthough the circular zoom is just ridiculous16:11
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: thanks16:11
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: 9 hours talk time?!16:11
GeneralAntillesSo they claim.16:11
Corsacit's like “we don't have a multi-touch screen but hey, we want to be hype”16:11
doc|homethat'd be very good16:11
JaffaCorsac: Why? It's like you're screwing in or out16:11
GeneralAntillesCorsac, looks very functional to me.16:12
doc|homeCorsac: multi-touch is overrated16:12
Corsacbut the zoom gesture is way more intuitive16:12
doc|homeI just want it to be as responsive as an iphone16:12
fiferboyIt looks like the circular zoom is continuous within the zoom limits - nice16:12
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* hanno congratulates the Maemo team!16:12
nomistimeless_mbp: that is a pity. Having a RDS decoder in the radio makes listening to radio so much more easier.16:13
GeneralAntillesCorsac, ever used it?16:13
GeneralAntillesIt's really kind of a pain.16:13
nomisi.e. identifying channels etc.16:13
nomisof course stuff like TMC messages is an added bonus  :)16:14
timeless_mbpnomis: you're free to write the code :)16:14
CorsacGeneralAntilles: yes I have16:14
Corsacand it's really intuitive16:14
GeneralAntillesCorsac, so have I, it's really kind of a pain.16:14
GeneralAntillesSo, you see, different things work well for different people.16:14
GeneralAntillesI suspect that Nokia's implementation will work well for me.16:14
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: any info on telco buy-in for these?16:14
Corsacnomis: anyway FM is going to stop in few years :)16:14
nomistimeless_mbp: Does the Hardware receiver actually decode the RDS?16:14
Khertanmulti-touch sucks16:15
hannoWill the N900 be available in other colours than black?16:15
* timeless_mbp is a software person16:15
nomisCorsac: I actually don't believe that.16:15
fiferboyNo built-in ogg support.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised16:15
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, rumor says T-Mobile in the US, but no details.16:15
timeless_mbphanno: any color you like, as long as it's black16:15
timeless_mbpor so said Henry Ford16:15
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: in canada?16:15
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X-Fadedoc|home: You guys really have a hard life. With us it will be ALL providers.16:15
doc|homeX-Fade: yep, we're constantly in ankle-grab mode up here :(16:15
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Stskeeps points to and not talk.maemo.org16:15
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, meh, somebody write a plugin for MAFW and stick it in Extras.16:15
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GeneralAntillesdoc|home, no word.16:16
X-Fadedoc|home: Yeah, that really sucks.16:16
GeneralAntillesStskeeps,, assign to Quim I guess.16:16
Stskeepsand to here, scaringily16:16
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: No doubt, but it makes things tricky with, say, the default SDL not having ogg and working around that16:16
Corsacnomis: well, you have to. It'll disappear16:16
Corsacnot tomorrow though16:16
qwerty12_N810/topic Hi n00bs. No, it is not a iPhone.16:16
X-Fadefiferboy: There should be ogg support from TI itself, so that should be pretty easy?16:17
doc|homeit's better than! :)16:17
Corsacqwerty12_N810: you'll have to change your nickname, too :)16:17
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hannoOh, and another question: Is full-screen 800x480 resolution video playback possible this time?16:17
RazumihinYeah, i think that we will have a little rushour here.16:17
fiferboyX-Fade: That's good news16:17
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nomisCorsac: In Germany DAB exists for like 20 Years or so. So far there is not even a hint of a momentum to pick it up...16:17
doc|homeok, I kinda want it now :(16:17
GeneralAntilleshanno, 720p in MPEG4 should work16:17
GeneralAntillesD1 H.26416:17
qwerty12_N810Corsac: I have qwerty12_N800 registered too :p16:17
Stskeepsqwerty12_N900? :P16:18
JaffaStskeeps: GeneralAntilles:
GeneralAntilles"Maemo Talk" ?!?16:18
Corsacit's a good time to start registering n900 :)16:18
X-Fadehanno: And even: Capture: MPEG-4 WVGA (800 x 480) at up to 25 fps16:18
GeneralAntillesJaffa, it's nice when you try so hard to make sure everybody has that straight and Nokia goes and blows all that effort away with a half-assed site launch. :(16:18
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hannoX-Fade, GeneralAntilles: Thanks. That's very nice to hear.16:20
hannoNow all I need is a sensible data plan in Germany. (shucks.)16:21
doc|homeheh, looks like might be having difficulties16:22
doc|homeis slow16:22
Stskeepsprobably getting bombed by iphone kiddies16:22
qwerty12_N810It's the Ovi effect16:22
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GeneralAntillesWell, an October launch at least gives them time to get some discount codes together. :rolleyes:16:23
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roope_Hi all.16:24
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MyrttiGeneralAntilles: naughty ;-)16:25
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Andy80GeneralAntilles, it would be GREAT if they could sell them to us at the Summit :)16:25
Corsacmhmh, n900 is already present on website too16:25
GeneralAntillesAndy80, it would be great if we didn't have to wait until the damn Summit to get it.16:25
Corsac“available soon”, but still16:25
GeneralAntillesNot gonna be much interest in Harmattan if everybody is just getting their tablets then.16:25
GeneralAntillesBut typical of Nokia to have already moved on to the next thing by the time their community gets ahold of the current thing.16:26
GeneralAntillesBetter have some AT&T 3G bands is all I've got to say. . . .16:26
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Andy80GeneralAntilles, I can wait October without problems... the only dubt is: are we sure they're going to repeat discount program :( ?16:27
GeneralAntillesAndy80, no idea.16:27
GeneralAntillesI've been waiting since August 2007.16:27
GeneralAntillesI'm done waiting.16:27
lardman|gonetimeless_mbp, nomis: re RDS, good news; at least it leaves something for us to hack on :)16:27
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: The wait is almost over ;)16:27
Andy80august 2007?16:27
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Andy80GeneralAntilles, didn't get the discount for N810?16:28
GeneralAntillesAndy80, yes, when I was hoping against hope that the N810 shots were for an OMAP3 device.16:28
GeneralAntillesDidn't apply.16:28
GeneralAntillesDon't need an N810.16:28
GeneralAntillesI have an N800 that does everything the N810 does.16:28
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Andy80ah ok16:28
Andy80I didn't have a N80016:28
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VDVsxCorsac, yup, also has it :)16:28
lardman~lart Virc16:29
* infobot duct-tapes Virc to the floor and drools on him16:29
Andy80but of course N900 is totally another thing ;)16:29
wazdGeneralAntilles: too :)16:29
javispedrohah, N900 forum already.16:29
Vulcanisthats no NIT16:30
Vulcanisits a space station16:30
GeneralAntilleswazd, kill the buttons.16:30
GeneralAntillesThat's a Symbian thing.16:30
GeneralAntillesI'd also drop thou rounding on the keyboard by %25-5016:31
javispedroBattery life, active online usage: 1 day?16:31
wazdGeneralAntilles: well, I think hardware call buttons for business phone are damn necessary16:31
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: I'd also drop the rounding on the keyboard by %25-5016:31
GeneralAntillesPortrait oriented branding clearly wont work, either.16:32
GeneralAntillesSo move all that up above the screen. ;)16:32
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GeneralAntillesOr Nokia logo N900 style and E900 over to the right of the screen.16:32
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qwerty12_N810wazd: you should've kept this device secret, like Nokia ;)16:33
wazdqwerty12_N810: I should've ask Eldar to post this picture in his blog :D16:33
qwerty12_N810Just say it has multitouch, they won't even look at the pic then :p16:34
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VDVsxbtw, Nokia's local site also have some tasty flash previews of the device and OS :)16:34
GeneralAntillesjailbreak Maemo 516:35
VDVsxzerojay, go to products and select the n90016:36
* javispedro wonders when someone is going to submit "jailbreak" to extras just to make qgil happy ;)16:36
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qwerty12_N810I could symlink rootsh to jailbreak ;)16:36
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Khertanon ?16:37
Khertani mean ?16:37
LoCusFanyone else have problems with this: ?16:37
VDVsxKhertan, .fr should has it, at least .pt has16:38
MyrttiLoCusF: the site is bunged up, too much traffic, wouldn't be surprised if you have problems ;-)16:38
ShadowJKwazd, needs some stainless steel too :-)16:38
LoCusFMyrtti: yup :), thought so too :)16:38
Andy80it's official: some Nokians will show it live at Maemo Summit :)16:38 didn't know n90016:38
X-FadeAndy80: Well duh ;)16:39
X-FadeAndy80: They will show it this weekend at Nokia World too :)16:39
Andy80X-Fade, yes but most of us will be at the summit, not at the NW :P16:39
Khertanlol .fr didn't have nit in the products list16:39
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JaffaNokians "showing it live at the Maemo Summit" is worrying if there aren't developer units already in circulation16:41
JaffaBut perhaps that's more of an external thing16:41
GeneralAntillesJaffa, yeah, Summit is going to be trouble if people are only getting their hands on it by then.16:41
GeneralAntilles(or after :()16:42
nomislardman: you got mail.16:42
KhertanVDVsx > expect the first page everything is a 404 errors :)16:43
Khertanbut thx16:43
* Andy80 can only imagine how much they're going to spend in "2 meters black security man" :D16:43
Khertani'm reading the pt one :)16:44
lardmannomis: thanks, will take a look now16:44
KhertanNokia is doing something that i didn't like, like other company, announcing products without selling it at the same time ... or at least announcing a release date...16:45
lardmannomis: uk location list is closed, so will have to reverse engineer that16:45
VDVsxhumm, what's the things next to the front camera ? ambient light and ? ->
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GeneralAntillesVDVsx, LED, proximity, ambient, VGA camera.16:46
Khertanlook like light sensir16:46
JaffaKhertan: "October" is announced.16:46
Khertanjaffa > for us16:47
nomislardman: ouch, that is evil, since this is just a more or less random "16-bit-number -> Location" mapping.16:47
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, ah right, my 5800 also has it :)16:47
Khertanfor United State i mean16:47
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Khertanand the price isn't sure too16:47
JaffaKhertan: Eh? No, it's in the press release "N900 is expected to be available in selected markets in October 2009 and cost 500eur (excl. taxes and subsidies)"16:47
ShadowJKKhertan, they can never win, they used to announce when selling but then they started to announce in advance when people complained :-)16:47
KhertanShadowJK: i didn't blame them for this16:48
lardmannomis: will have to observe the output + look at the map16:48
Khertanjust saying that ME i didn't like that16:48
lardmannomis: or perhaps feed a TomTom with an RDS signal and see what it produces.... :)16:48
Corsacn900 is not on nokiausa.com16:49
Khertanand with the photo on ... they have surely announce it before that they want to announce it16:49
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, there's also a small hole at the bottom (front side, bellow the camera)16:49
Andy80taxes here are 20%, so.... I expect 599€ for Italy :(16:49
Corsacthough n810 isnt either16:49
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JamieBennettVDVsx Mic?16:49
Khertan20,6% + The Eco Taxes and the other ... we will be around 600 Euros16:49
X-FadeVDVsx: LED16:50
nomislardman: yeah, still a lot of stupid work. There is a ton of other stuff in these databases, the RDS message basically says "congestion between location 23 and the following three locations in positive direction"16:50
aol_remember nokia always talks about recommended price16:50
KhertanJaffa: but "selected markets" doesn't mean nothing right ?16:50
Khertanaol_: true16:50
nomislardman: so you have a linked list of locations, but this is not in the TMC message, but in the database.16:50
aol_selected markets probably means only available through etc16:50
X-FadeKhertan: Look at the language list.16:50
X-FadeKhertan: Those are the selected markets ;)16:51
Khertani'm just trying to estimate it ...16:51
doc|homeit's good they announced it before. I was considering an iphone but read about this on mobile-review (owning an n800 already) and decided to wait and see. Glad I did now.16:51
KhertanX-Fade: good deduction :)16:51
aol_there are already rumors of N92016:51
doc|homeaol_: any idea what that is?16:51
aol_which is RX-71 then I guesS?16:51
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, Eldar says early next year.16:51
CorsacX-Fade: I don't have any language list :/16:51
JaffaKhertan: I don't think the launch strategy will have changed much because of mobile-review - Nokia World's next week, and has been for months ;-)16:51
GeneralAntillesRX-71 is still an unknown.16:51
aol_GeneralAntilles: ok16:51
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: and what's the difference?16:51
doc|homeah, ok, thanks16:52
aol_what is in RX-56 ?16:52
aol_any info16:52
Jaffaaol_: None.16:52
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, unknown, but Eldar says only slight variations.16:52
GeneralAntillesaol_, N92016:52
KhertanJaffa: i though that they will announce it at the bijua world event :)16:52
aol_yes but specks :)16:52
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GeneralAntillesaol_, none known other than "slight variation".16:52
Khertanoups ... Nokia World event i mean :)16:52
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: but those variations could be important! :)16:52
aol_N900 was easy as "everybody" had seen it months ago16:52
lardmannomis: well if I could do RDS injection, I could just run through the codes one by one and write down the location list16:53
Jaffaaol_: N900 was easy because the SDK is littered with RX-51 references.16:53
lardmannomis: am looking to see how much the parts will cost for that16:53
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, surely, but no info here.16:53
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: *nod* thanks16:53
aol_Jaffa: that too16:53
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GeneralAntillestekojo, can you go find somebody in the office to kick about all the bugs?16:53
Khertan<<<<---- arf ... i ve already do interesting things with rds16:56
*** amit_usual has joined #maemo16:56 looks really weird in microb16:56
lardmanKhertan: what hw do you use?16:56
Khertanlike announcing that is news ... and force it to switch to specific frequency :)16:56
lardmanah ok :)16:56
nomislardman: yeah, you'd need to feed RDS into a device with the LCL included.16:56
Khertanlardman: an home made one ... with a zaurus to pilot it16:56
Khertanbut i ve do that 2 years ago16:56
fiferboyI assume being able to have a mouse cursor in the browser means being able to see mouse-overs and hovers?16:56 is under DDoS I suppose :)16:57
lardmanam wondering what the Garmin/TomTom receivers output. I guess it's serial. I need to be able to see the decoded locations somehow and don't own a TomTom/etc16:57
nomislardman: I suspect that all those TMC "devices" to attach to navigation devices will just output the raw RDS groups.16:58
Khertanthe most important rds feature : traffice announce16:58
nomislardman: so you can update the LCL and the Encryption-parameter-table by a firmware update in the navigation device, or reading from the SD card.16:58
lardmannomis: they say they come with the subscription built in16:58
lardmanhmm, fair enough16:59
nomislardman: that only means that the navigation device feels allowed to use the builtin tables.16:59
lardmanyeah, ok16:59
nomis(pure guess, but a lot of the RDS encryption stuff seems very security-by-obscurity-ish)16:59
lardmanyes indeed16:59
nomisthere is wording in the iso standards that puts responsibility on the device manufacturers.17:00
wazdCheck it out17:00
wazdFree software -, Closed software -
Khertanthe thing that i didn't understand with this announce is this new web site
Khertanit s annoying to have things so separated from maemo.org17:01
JaffaKhertan: What don't you understand? We can help, cos it's been public knowledge that they were doing a new end-user site since Maemo 5 was announced.17:02
wazdKhertan: btw, damn you with your Shang-Tsung E900 :D17:02
Khertanwazd :)17:02
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KhertanJaffa: ha ... just a public knowledge that i ven 't hear or read :)17:02
Khertanbut why made a new end-user ?17:03
X-FadeKhertan: Was even mentioned at the last Summit.17:03
Khertanhumm ... i ven't understand it like this so17:03
Khertani was more thinking on something more oriented to the hardware aspect ...17:04
JaffaKhertan: The theory being that is for the mass market, and is for the engaged users17:04
doc|homeoh, sweet, wazd linked to a photo which includes headphones. Those things are much better than the POS ones you got with the n900.17:04
doc|homethey seal into the inner ear which is a big advantage17:04
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GeneralAntillesKhertan, is the minefield where the community can play17:05 is where regular users go who don't want to be blown up.17:05 = bombs are slung like cake at a buffet17:06
wazddoc|home: they're kinda short17:06 = the buffet serves the bombs17:06
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, much, MUCH, nicer TI headphone amp in the device, too.17:06
doc|homewazd: hehehe17:06
Khertanhum ... why not ...17:06
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: oh, you know what I'd love, and pay good money for? a mic cord that you can plug your headphones into so you don't *have* to use the included ones17:06
* doc|home bought sennheisers earphones for a reason17:07
Jaffadoc|home: My SE phones have done that the past two I had17:07
doc|homeJaffa: hmmm, wonder if these will too17:07
doc|homeand now I've to go to work :( later17:07
X-Fadedoc|home: Same connector as all previous ones.17:08
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X-Fadedoc|home: Pretty default for Nokia17:08
doc|homeX-Fade: you lost me. Do those cords exist already?17:08
ShadowJKdoc|home, I have a cord like that17:08
doc|homeShadowJK: link?17:08
doc|homesorry, of where you can buy them17:08
ShadowJKuh, let me find them and see if they have a model number :)17:08
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ShadowJKit's this extension cord, on the end there's this little widget with play/pause stop next/previous and volume buttons, microphone and a 3.5 mm headphone output17:09
doc|homesomeone asked about skype: has "Skype will be available soon!"17:09
doc|homeShadowJK: great17:09
javispedrono video skype = fail17:09
GeneralAntillesActually, I think my 5800 came with a cord like that.17:10
doc|homejavispedro: use a sip client17:10
zerojayLol... Riiight17:10
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: yeah, N95 did too.17:10
doc|homeok then, all's great in the cord world :)17:10
javispedrodon't get me wrong, I'm not a Skype fan, but it sucks for ... Skype.17:10
* doc|home really going to work now17:10
javispedro"Nokia is based in Finland, it's cold there, capacitive screens don't work well." :D17:13
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RazumihinWhat te fuck is wrong with people and those capacitive screens.17:14
RazumihinBecause apple uses them they must be the best?17:14
nomiscapacitive screens usually have less precision.17:14
GeneralAntillesRazumihin, yeah, it's about as silly as the whole Tegra thing.17:14
RazumihinAnd i'm getting bored to it also :)17:15
javispedroTegra... [sigh]17:15
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I love the comments about how everybody using Cortex should "upgrade" to Tegra.17:15
javispedroyeah, read a few already17:16
nomis(but capacitive screen enable nice hard glass surfaces...)17:16
GeneralAntillesnomis, that break really nicely when dropped.17:16
GeneralAntillesMy sister's iPhone was trashed by a 4' fall to hard wood.17:16
javispedroI've seen resistive glass screens17:17
ShadowJKdoc|home, I seem to have Nokia AD-5417:17
javispedroI believe Palm sold one of those in the Tungsten line.... I might be wrong tho.17:17
ShadowJKthe buttons don't work with N810 :-)17:17
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nomislardman: mhm, not sure what to make of this.17:17
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nomisGeneralAntilles: heh  :)17:17
X-FadeShadowJK: They do, but not with the default player.17:17
lardmannomis: I still need to find some software that contains the table though17:18
ShadowJKX-Fade, oh?17:18
nomislardman: yeah. Analyzing firmware updates for navigation devices might be more promising than trying to decode them one-by-one by feeding them into a device.17:19
javispedrosomeone confusing FM with IR in engadget... [sigh again]17:20
aol_I wonder what the iPhone guys say when apple releases it's tablet with resistive screen :D17:20
javispedroaol_, same thing nokia says when they release a nokbook with windows xp17:20
javispedro"It's better suitted to the consumers we want to target with this horrible device".17:21
javispedrothen engage the rdf field and forget about it.17:21
ShadowJKdoc|home, it came in a bundle with HS-45 headset (I threw it away), kinda pricey at 18E17:21
aol_nokbook will ship with win7 :)17:21
ShadowJKI can't find it sold anywhere anymore though :(17:21
javispedroaol_, same thing ;)17:22
ShadowJKOh, Amazon has it at £6.8517:22
Jaffajavispedro: Confusing FM with IR?!17:22
aol_and I think the booklet is very cool!17:22
aol_don't worry I'm sure Nokia will do a linux booklet as well :)17:23
aol_ARM based17:23
javispedroJaffa, sic.17:23
javispedrosome commenter, not the blogger.17:23
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Jaffajavispedro: Well, the commenters *are* the best17:24
aol_I wonder why TechCruch don't write about the N90017:24
aol_they write about every silly iPhone app17:24
javispedroafter reading all 120~ish of them I still want more, not enough LMAO.17:24
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JaffaTechCrunch are too busy writing about a fire at Google UK atm17:25
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zapAnyone has seen photos of the top edge of N900? All photos I've seen on the net seems to avoid showing whats there17:25
javispedrolol, so the definite device has "ARM Cortex" written on the back??17:26
aol_I mean they wrote about the piece-of-crap sharp device?17:26
aol_but not N90017:26
aol_or is it because they all sleep with Steve, and they have not woken up yet17:26
qwerty12_N810aol_: it's a shit site, then. Their loss :)17:26
javispedrolol, I like the landscape->portrait animation17:26
javispedrodid they really make it? do the buttons "flip"?17:26
javispedromy mind boggles if they implemented that in gtk.17:27
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Jaffajavispedro: It's just compositing the window, surely?17:27
javispedroJaffa, individual buttons flip.17:27
javispedrothat would mean either each hildonbutton is a clutter actor, something else, or that the video is a good photoshop job17:27
tuukkahzap, see here:
Jaffajavispedro: Timestamp & video?17:28
zaptuukkah: thanks!17:28
javispedroJaffa, 1:0517:29
javispedroI guess the background flips too, so I may be wrong17:29
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puelocesarHi all, is there any way to get discounts on N900 by developing applications for it?17:32
javispedrolol Compactive touch screen. youtube is MUCH, MUCH better than engadget ;)17:32
javispedropuelocesar, no, you have to pay $90/year to develop for it like the iphone17:32
javispedrojoking of course :D17:32
Razumihin:DD This is hilarious.17:32
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Jaffapuelocesar: Previous Maemo devices have had a device discount programme you could apply to. Obviously, having started writing the app in the SDK and publishing screenshots on will probably help your case if there is one this time.17:33
puelocesaroh, I already have one for Diablo17:34
JamieBennettA pretty cynical Luis Villa on -
puelocesar:P but it will be useless on N90017:34
javispedro"Trust me, this is only the beginning. Soon there will be capacitive touch screen maemo phone. "17:34
javispedro~burn them17:35
* infobot pours gasoline all over them, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze17:35
puelocesarthanks Jaffa, I'll search for that17:36
wazddamn, that promo soundtrack absolutely blows my mind :D17:36
Jaffapuelocesar: None has been announced for the N900 yet17:37
Jaffawazd: I'm in the office so haven't heard it yet17:37
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puelocesarah ok, but let's hope that it will be! These high end phones are *very* expensive here on Brasil17:38
puelocesarlike, two or three times more expensive then europe17:38
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puelocesarBy the way, anyone interessed on a gmail client for Maemo Diablo? I'm very interested on tips on how to improve my code: http://puelocesar.wordpress.com17:39
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Khertanpuelocesar ... i don't think running the webkit is the best solution17:42
* Stskeeps wonders if korbé is a troll17:42
Khertanit s eat many cpu ressources ....17:42
Khertankorbé ... the guy which post under the nickname korbé on ?17:43
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: "Oh no, it's not 100% open source. WTF am I gonna do now?!!!"17:43
StskeepsKhertan: and on :P17:43
* javispedro wants more idiot comments to read17:44
puelocesarKhertan: well, I using it everyday, and it's pretty smooth, but of course I use it without many other things open17:44
Khertanpuelocesar ... without anything else open i can't say it smooth17:44
puelocesarsmooth it's the same of fast17:45
Khertanyes i understood17:45
Khertani just want to say that with everything close, no background daemon eating cpu ... i found that is too slow ...17:45
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puelocesaryou installed on your device?17:46
puelocesarnice :)17:46
Khertanps i ve do one too in python and gtk-webkit17:46
Khertanbut you use the qt one ... and it works better17:47
Khertanyes it s still installed on my device :)17:47
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javispedrono mainstream blogger at all knows the first thing about maemo. sad but true. will that change with the n900?17:47
Khertanbut now i use more the rss to read mail17:47
zerojayAlready has changed.17:47
Khertan<javispedro> no mainstream blogger at all knows the first thing about maemo <<< nope this will not change ... there is no the magic word ... iPhone17:48
javispedroyou mean there's no Reality Distortion Field ;)17:48
puelocesarthe advantage of this approach, is that you can star, mark as unread, mark as spam and other things like that17:49
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mikkov_N900 doesn't have MMS support?17:50
Mekit doesn't seem to, no...17:50
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javispedroso, the Maemo App Store is going to be called Maemo Select?17:54
nomisMaemo-Apptitude?  :)17:54
X-Fadejavispedro: Maemo Select is just a selection of Downloads apps.17:55
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javispedroX-Fade, ah, much like the OS2008 user site then?17:55
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, yeah, is just Tableteer reborn.17:55
X-FadeThis is the Maemo 5 user site yes ;)17:55
javispedroheh, diablo microb runs out of memory trying to open it17:57
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javispedro[reading some more idiot comments] I hereby propose the new corporate motto for Nokia (instead of the current pedo one): Nokia. Is it a phone? (sound of the nokia tune)17:59
Stskeepsjavispedro: there's a video for n900 that has the nokia tune in the end.17:59
Stskeepsto illustrate "yes, it's a phone"17:59
Khertanpuelocesar > and answer ... this is why i'm still thinking on how to optimize it17:59
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javispedroStskeeps, lol :D18:00
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javispedrowow, Dataviz is going to port DocsToGo to Maemo?18:02
javispedroWordToGo, we meet again... [sigh for third time today]18:03
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tbfStskeeps: even more to tell: "iPhone, we'll get you!"18:04
tbfStskeeps: that video seems to mock on some iPhone ad18:05
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Khertanwow, Dataviz is going to port DocsToGo to Maemo? < --- where did you see this ?18:10
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javispedrounder "Messaging"18:12
javispedroconsidering it's known DataViz has had a "native" GNU/Linux port for at least year, makes sense.18:13
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wazd"portrait (for voice calls) modes" :(18:14
javispedrowazd, yeah, actually zerojay mentioned the phone app opens when you put it in portrait mode18:15
Khertanjavispedro ? really18:16
Khertanyou mean each time you turn it of 90° it open the phone app ?18:16
javispedroKhertan, dunno where zerojay got that from....18:16
Khertani ll found this feature annoying ...18:16
GeneralAntillesKhertan, I'd suspect it's only from the desktop.18:17
zerojayIt's in the videos.18:17
Khertanbut.... it s open source ... so i ll unactive it18:17
Khertan :)18:17
zerojayI think it's optional anyways.18:17
oilinki3D Accelerometer, Proximity Sensor18:17
Stskeepsproximity? :P ALS? :P18:18
ShadowJKI wonder when manufacturers will include gyros :)18:18
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Stskeepsa compass would have been good for AR though18:19
X-FadeYeah, compass would have been great.18:19
X-FadeStill hoping for that easter egg ;)18:19
Stskeepscurrent active users on talk 496.. i wonder if it would reach 637 or higher18:19
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Stskeepsaugmented reality18:21
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]18:21 OMFG!!!!18:21
wirelessdreamer /drool18:21
wirelessdreamerits finally official18:21
* xnt14 faints18:21
zerojayYeah, welcome to 6 hours ago. ;)18:21
ShadowJKHow crap are compasses these days... i've never seen an electronic one accurate/responsive/calibrated enough to be useful18:21
wirelessdreameravailable soon . . . wants soon to be . . . sooner18:21
xnt14:P, I just woke up :P18:22
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | N900 and Maemo 5 announced @ | | Maemo Community Council | | | Maemo Summit 2009: Call for Content Now Open! -> | Maemo Summit 2009: Registration now open -"18:22
Khertan[17:17] <zerojay> I think it's optional anyways. <<< if it s not i ll make it anyway18:22
xnt14now lets hope nokia doesn't screw this one up like the n810 compass18:22
Khertan<xnt14> :P, I just woke up :P < this is not a reason18:22
Khertanyou can put alarm on your n810 to wake up you each time something is publish on internet containing the word 'n900'18:23
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zerojayUse google news alerts. :)18:24
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wirelessdreamerthere is a mailing list you can sign up for at the bottom of the page to be alerted when the n900 is released18:24
xnt14I woke up, and check twitter on my ipod....xD18:24
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timeless_mbpwirelessdreamer: once, and only once18:25
timeless_mbpunless of course you're under 15 in which case their English is so bad, that I can't figure out what would happen :)18:25
wirelessdreamerthey'll email you to see if its ok to email you? ;)18:26
wirelessdreamerand most important . . . ITS A PHONE !!!18:26
wirelessdreamernot just a rumor it might be18:27
zerojayI am just glad it means no more tethering.18:27
wirelessdreamerI wonder about the "internet calling" option18:27
zerojayWhat about it?18:27
wirelessdreameronly have to carry 1 device18:27
javispedrowell, if you're under 15, they'll follow their "Privacy Policy" when processing your address ;)18:28
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wirelessdreamerso can I get an account with a voip service and make/recieve calls through them18:28
wirelessdreamerso use an unlimited 10/month voip service when at home for calls18:29
lardmanhmm, hasn't heard of the N900 yet18:29
* timeless_mbp takes a moment to rotfl18:29
wirelessdreamereven though tmobile already has top 5 with unlimited18:29
timeless_mbpdid anyone else notice the *other* n900 that was announced last week?18:29
zerojayThe chinese one?18:30
qwerty12The one on mobile-review you mean? ;)18:30
timeless_mbpi don't read reviews18:30
GeneralAntillesYeah, you mean the N920 that was announced. I'm pretty sure any Nokians in the room should feel free to talk about it now. ;)18:30
zerojayThat's not a review. Heh.18:30
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Andy80GeneralAntilles, N920? where?18:37
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GeneralAntillesAndy80, according to Eldar18:40
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javispedrobah, a comment saying that this 500€ phone is going to be the "entry device". what are they smoking?18:43
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Andy80javispedro, don't know what, but we'll be able to buy some in Amsterdam, for sure :D18:46
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oilinkilack of mms will raise a hilarious talk later on (as it was with iphone before :)18:53
ShadowJKthere's no mms? :)18:54
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oilinkiat least on the messaging specs only im and sms.18:54
javispedroI am yet to send a single MMS, ever.18:54
oilinkiI have.. even created some with smil, but.. send about once a year.18:55
javispedro(probably because last time I checked it was nearly 3€ for a few kilobytes one)18:55
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zerojayI don't know a single person that has ever sent an mms.18:55
* Jaffa has sent a couple, but my camera's always been crap18:55
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Khertan<zerojay> I don't know a single person that has ever sent an mms. << it usefull sometimes for sending a mini photo to people which don't have email18:56
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oilinkibut even if none is actually using it. it was the talk before and therefore there will be some talk with maemo as well18:56
zerojayWhy wouldn't i just up the pic to flickr?18:56
zerojayUnless it's n00ds.18:56
Khertanbecause not everybody have a network connection18:57
zerojaySo they wouldn't get an mms either then.18:57
oilinkiKhertan: btw, where are you from?18:57
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Khertanmms work without data18:58
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oilinkimms need data connection for the message delivery18:58
zerojayIt's the same.18:58
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zerojayThey just charge you differently.18:58
ShadowJKsometims they just the same APN as internet, sometimes they have different walled-in net for mms18:59
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xnt14wait, is the n900 going to be sold unlocked?19:09
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GeneralAntillesxnt14, of course.19:10
tbfxnt14: yes, no jail breaking needed.19:10
tbfxnt14: you just have to enable R&D mode and you are free to brick it19:10
xnt14so I can just go to t-mobile get a sim with unlimited data + myfaves, and just pop it in my n900?19:10
GeneralAntillestbf, R&D required?19:10
xnt14tbf, ?19:10
GeneralAntillesQuim's blog seems to show otherwise.19:10
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tbfGeneralAntilles: on the hardware i've seen: yes.19:11
GeneralAntillesOh well.19:11
ShadowJKxnt14, can't you do that with any phone not crippled/mutilated by operators?19:11
GeneralAntillesHello easyroot.19:11
tbfGeneralAntilles: maybe they changed this last minute, but afaik you sill have to enable R&D mode to get full access19:11
tbfGeneralAntilles: but that's just a matter of calling flasher19:11
xnt14ShadowJK, ;)19:11
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GeneralAntillestbf, or installing a package from Extras.19:12
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xnt14btw I wonder what would happen is apple made jet fighters...... Introducing the new iFighter! (which you have to jailbreak inorder to get it in the air19:12
xnt14or if microsoft made helis.....19:13
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qwerty12No, it'd fly but you wouldn't be able to pilot it ;)19:13
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xnt14MS XPCopter Professional edition, with extremly fragile wings :P19:14
xnt14qwerty12, ;)19:14
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xnt14and once you buy an iFighter, you would need to buy a crappy crippled by att autopilot from the appstore :P19:14
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wazdbtw, task switcher reminds me something :)
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xnt14[away]wazd, iphone mobile safari tabs switcher?19:22
tuukkahwazd, or exposé, or compiz :-)19:22
GadgetoidHmm USB host fail!19:23
xnt14[away]or liqbase task switching.....19:23
wazdxnt14[away]: oh well, yeah, looks like Safari :D Haven't seen it before :)19:24
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wazdxnt14[away]: but I have the cross in the right place :)19:25
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ShadowJKSo like, has anyone yet said that N900 looks friggin awesome?19:26
xnt14[away]wazd, yup ;)19:26
wazdShadowJK: nope, I think it suck balls19:26
xnt14[away]ShadowJK, it looks awesome to me ;P19:26
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wazdShadowJK: iPhone ripoff :D19:26
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wazdhow can I jailbreak my lovely iPhone 3GS btw?19:28
* wazd looks for a shelter :D19:28
xnt14[away]wazd, you live in russia right? :P19:28
wazdxnt14[away]: nono, indonesia :D19:28
xnt14[away]oh :P19:29
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xnt14[away]I heard you mentioning moscow a while back19:29
wazdxnt14[away]: fire your missiles there :D19:29
wazdxnt14[away]: yeah, I'm from Moscow19:29
xnt14[away]well when you go back to russia, say hi to the iphone devteam for me xD19:30
Macerin communist russia we use phones in space program19:30
wazdMacer: soviet russia :)19:30
Macerdoes soviet mean communist?19:31
aol_I'm from Soviet Finland19:31
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wazdMacer: in soviet russia, iphone jailbreaks you :)19:31
ShadowJKMacer, they gave a phone to the cosmonauts after that one time they missed their landing site by thousands of kilometres and landed in a forrest and had to fight off Wolves to survive19:31
ShadowJKtrue story19:31
xnt14[away]one thing I have to see if I go to russia:
MacerShadowJK: with only knives?19:31
* lardman wonders why is always slow getting new products up19:31
wazdoh, I've noticed interesting thing19:31
Maceror crude tools they made in the forest?19:32
wazdspace around the screen is touchable too19:32
Macerdoes it run maemo5?19:32
wazdswipe from the left side of the screen19:32
xnt14[away]wazd, the n900?19:32
wazdxnt14[away]: yep, or maybe it just calculates that you've started to move from the first pixel19:33
xnt14[away]wait you have a n900 right now?19:33
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wazdxnt14[away]: no, relax :)19:33
xnt14[away]oh xD19:33
wazdxnt14[away]: just watching video :)19:33
xnt14[away]linkey? :P19:34
xnt14[away]thanks ;)19:34
aol_wazd: what point in that movie?19:34
ShadowJKMacer, oh sorry, I remembered wrong, they added a gun to the survival kit after the wolves incident :)19:34
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wazdaol_: well, it shows live experience, not pre-rendered stuff19:35
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GeneralAntilleslardman, NokiaUSA is worse.19:36
wazdbtw, I was mentioning mouse pointer in browser long ago too :P19:36
aol_would be rather bad survive russian space mission just to be ripped to pieces by tigers, bears and wolves19:36
aol_wazd: no I meant which part you can see the touch outside screen19:37
mikkov_soviet space program has some funny landing incidents. Once the capsule landed to the bottom of a lake :)19:37
aol_wazd: just interested to see it my self19:37
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wazdaol_: 1:4219:37
xnt14[away]wait quim quil already has the n900?19:37
qwerty12Well, yeah...19:38
wazdxnt14[away]: sure he is :)19:38
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aol_too bad not much can be discussed about the real experiences19:38
aol_but looking at those videos it looks cool19:39
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aol_wazd: yeah hard to say if it's just dragging from pixel 0 or if the screen is touch ware from left side19:40
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ShadowJKMacer, oh there was also that one where they accidentally re-entered the atmosphere upside down with the heatshield facing the wrong way19:47
ShadowJKrubber gaskets inside were starting to smoke and catch fire, but luckily some parts of the spacecraft broke off causing it to flip over and face heatshield the right way19:48
lardmanGeneralAntilles: the European sites seem to be offering it for presale already19:48
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GeneralAntillesWatch them not sell it unlocked in the US.19:48
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GeneralAntillesIf I have to tether to get 3G I'm brining a bag of hurt with me to the Summit.19:48
ShadowJKThe flying upside down thing pushed him off course alot, and to make it even more fun, the parachute lines entangled themselves so the parachute didn't deploy properly. The braking rockets also failed, and the thing landed so hard that he broke his teeth. He found himself in -39C russian winter, and the rescue crew found him eventually by following the trail of blood in the snow :-)19:49
ShadowJKthat would've been a nice situation to, like, have a homing beacon or a phone19:50
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kirmacan anyone point me towards a resource that'd tell what in N900 installation would not be open source (I assume lots of base user applications, but what else?)19:50
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zerojayBattery stuff.19:50
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GeneralAntilleskirma, UI differentiation stuff and some hardware stuff.19:50
zerojayAccelerated opengl drivers for the imap19:51
GeneralAntillesBasically the 3 things Nokia differentiates on are UI, connectivity and powersaving.19:51
kirmawell, this "some hardware" interests me mightily19:51
javispedroyou make it sound like if everything was closed source :P19:51
GeneralAntillesThen add in anything else they can't get 3rd parties to license.19:51
GeneralAntillesLike the OpenGL libraries.19:51
GeneralAntillesWLAN and Bluetooth should be open19:51
awilkinsQuestion : Does the N900 have a magnetometer? Or an accelerometer? And if not, doesn't this make it outclassed in the Augmented Reality area that iPhone and the Androids handsets are starting to penetrate?19:51
GeneralAntillesWL1271 from TI19:51
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GeneralAntillesawilkins, accelerometer, unknown on the compass.19:52
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kirmaawilkins: I think specs say that there's accelerometer19:52
zerojayAccelerometer is in.19:52
kirmaand certainly there's some sort of orientation sensor19:52
javispedroAugmented Reality Fade, I'd say. Where's my permanent 3D glasses?19:52
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SpeedEvilmagnetometer is _really_ nice for augmentation. Or gyros - but those have problems of their own, and are more expensive than compasses.19:53
kirmaregarding closed source, people are just speculating to what extent one could recompile/modify and reinstall the open source components on N900 without losing the closed source component functionality...19:53
infobotfrom memory, mer is, or on #mer19:53
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Khertanthe n900 is sold on nokia.de19:54
Khertanyou can already bought it19:54
kirmawell, I, and those folks are not GPL fanatics or such, but people that actually see value in closed source parts :)19:55
Luke-Jrkirma: there is no value in closed source things19:55 didn't know what is a n810 ... so i don't expect seeing n900 soon :)19:55
GeneralAntilleskirma, Nokia's relicensing their own 1st-party closed source components.19:55
GeneralAntillesand working with 3rd parties to improve their licensing.19:56
SpeedEvilIs there a list of the binary blobs?19:56
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, as we don't have the final image yet, no.19:56
GeneralAntillesBut I suspect it'll be mostly limited to OpenGL.19:56
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: some things require closed source prettymuch - GSM for example.19:56
Luke-JrSpeedEvil: no.19:56
GeneralAntillesI don't know if ofono is ready for Fremantle yet, however.19:56
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: though I assume that's on another core19:57
Luke-Jrif N900 requires anything closed source, I most probably won't be buying it19:57
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SpeedEvilI assume the image will vary per carrier. If it's subsidised.19:57
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GeneralAntillesLuke-Jr, excellent, then you can quiet down about it now.19:58
GeneralAntillesOpenGL is closed. So, check and check.19:58
SpeedEvilYou don't have to use opengl I suppose.19:59
GeneralAntillesYou do if you want to run Maemo, though.19:59
lardmanhmm, so I've just downloaded shareware quake but it won't start (a window flashes up then vanishes) any ideas?19:59
qwerty12The desktop kinda mandates the use of it.19:59
lardmanrunning on a WinXP machine19:59
kirmakhertan: well, it says "coming soon", even if you can order it20:00
kirmathat may mean well over a month of waiting.20:00
GeneralAntillesWord is October, sadly.20:00
Khertankirma ... ah so my german is not so good20:00
Khertanthanks for the precision20:00
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* mgedmin *hopes* the N900 will become available around the time for the Maemo Summit20:01
kirmageneralAntilles: and that probably doesn't mean the first of october :I20:01
* Khertan hope it ll be before20:01
* mgedmin would love to be able to buy one at the summit20:01
Firebirdlardman, missing pak files?20:01
GeneralAntilleskirma, gonna suck if they don't ship by the Summit.20:01
lardmanseems to be there, no error message20:01
* Khertan hope to getting a discounted one ... else i ve a wife ... and 550 is too much ....20:02
SpeedEvilI assume no release of price? $1k?20:02
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Khertanseems to 500 Euro without taxes20:02
SpeedEvilyeah - something like that seems about right :/20:03
aol_I wonder if they give an N900 to everyone participating the summit... like google did :D20:03
GeneralAntillesProbably be $400 USD. ;)20:03
kirmathe suggested retail price. I remember many nokia phones that have sold well under suggested retail price + vat directly when they have come widely to market...20:03
GeneralAntillesaol_, be nice if they would give them out BEFORE the Summit.20:03
GeneralAntillesSo when Nokia is there talking about Harmattan we can actually focus.20:03
kirmanot necessarily through all outlets, but many.20:03
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SpeedEvilkirma: you're not meaning subsidised phones?20:04
GeneralAntillesIt'll be down under 400 euro by the time 2010 rolls around.20:04
kirmano, I'm not meaning those.20:04
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aol_should I wait for N92020:04
aol_anyone? :)20:04
mgedminwhat are they going to call the next major device revision? n1000?20:04
GeneralAntillesaol_, we have no idea what the N920 entails.20:04
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, N1!20:04
Firebirddepends on what the 920 will be20:04
mgedminaol_: no, you should obviously buy every maemo device just as soon as it comes out ;)20:04
Khertani think we will have more information the 1 or 2 September20:05
aol_it will go to N2^32-1 before going back to 020:05
lardmanwhoa, that 3D Quake is nasty20:05
lardman(got it working in the end)20:05
lardmanKhertan: likewise, and my wife wants one too!20:05
kirmaI think there are no Nokia mystery devices seen on FCC; so I sort of suspect there's nothing else coming to the market for a while20:05
kirma(wild guess)20:06
GeneralAntilleskirma, Eldar says sometime early next year for RX-56 (N920)20:06
Khertan<lardman> Khertan: likewise, and my wife wants one too! <<< lucky you are20:06
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aol_heh TechCrunch finally wrote on N900... nice "we said so" article20:06
aol_so when is Harmattan supposed to ship ?20:07
Khertanmine preferes to buy furnitures and made change in home than a stupid geek things20:07
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Khertanas she said20:07
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* keesj is getting emotional about it all20:07
zerojayLol, are you serious?20:07
lardmanoh mine likes that too, and shoes & handbags :)20:07
zerojayLet's get our hands on fremantle first20:07
Khertanyeah ... handbags ...20:07
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Khertansame things too here20:08
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aol_zerojay: yes I'm very serious20:08
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Khertanand whine for each minutes i pass on my computer :)20:08
aol_zerojay: I'm independed software vendor and I need to decide if I should go for Qt apps or for GTK :)20:08
lardmanI had to show the product so she knows what I'm developing for :)20:09
GeneralAntillesaol_, not before the end of 2010 would be my guess.20:09
lardmananyway, am being sent to the shops :)20:09
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aol_I'm I right to expect the new OS will be upgradeable to N900 etc?20:09
simulaaol_ i recommend Qt, it is an amazingly good framework20:10
kirmageneralantilles: well, I believe the effort is doomed if we start waiting for the next model just around the corner; obviously Maemo is supposed to be like S60 used to be in amount of devices, not like old Maemo...20:10
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mgedminaol_: Qt will be available for Fremantle too, AFAIU, but since it'll be a community-supported version, I wonder how that would complicate installation of 3rd-party apps...20:10
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aol_mgedmin: that's my worry too20:11
aol_mgedmin: somehow need to play along with the package manager20:11
tuukkahhmm, i thought it's nokia-supported20:11
aol_for S60 you need to install comple of SIS files before you can install Qt apps, so it's completely out of question20:11
mgedminthe package manager is the least of your worries; educating the users about enabling the repositories that ship qt might be more difficult20:12
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, no more than it does on Diablo.20:12
mgedminthis is not S6020:12
GeneralAntillesi.e., none.20:12
Khertanso i ll doing something else that looking at each news/comment made on maemo ... and wait for the discounted announces if there is :)20:12
aol_I mean three extra .SIS total 12 MB before you can install my 500kb app ? hehe20:12
aol_all manual20:12
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GeneralAntillestuukkah, it's "community supported" in that it's not shipped in the box.20:12
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GeneralAntillesBut Nokia is financing development.20:12
aol_well suprise :)20:12
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, Extras should be shipping enabled by default.20:13
GeneralAntillesSo users wont have to mess with any repos.20:13
mgedminin fremantle? cool! awesome even!20:13
* mgedmin jumps up and down from the excitement20:13
GeneralAntillesIf you want to help ensure that, feel free to lend X-Fade, Jeremiah and the rest a hand with Extras-testing the QA process.20:13 - 5 million page views today.20:13
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GeneralAntilleszerojay, source?20:14
xnt14im back20:14
aol_PeterMaemo probably20:14
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zerojayScratch that.20:17
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zerojay7 millon views in 8 hours.20:17
GeneralAntillesX-Fade/tekojo, we get more new servers yet?20:18
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lardmanany Nokians lurking on here with an n900?20:23
Luke-Jrlardman: install QuakeForge on Linux? :þ20:24
zerojayYeah, good question.20:24
zerojayI'll need a n900 to route me to maemo summit. ;)20:24
lardmanLuke-Jr: I don't want to play (old) games, was just interested in the 3D stuff. Didn't look too good to me20:24
lardmanI'd just like a dmesg20:24
lardmanLuke-Jr: it worked with the 3D binary, but wasn't great20:25
Luke-Jraol_: Qt ftw20:26
Luke-Jrlardman: aww, RuneQuake is fun!20:26
pH5are we going to get some documented interface for dsp codecs this time?20:26
lardmanpH5: I think it's all out there already20:26
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lardmanopenMax, etc20:27
pH5oh, nice.20:27
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atlaawesome guys, Maemo5 looks fantastic!20:27
lardmanand the audio is hooked back onto the Cortex anyway iirc, so no problems trying to output on DSP-side20:27
lardmanin fact all audio is done on the Cortex fullstop20:27
lardmanwould be nice to port Tremor though, for the satisfaction of it20:28
pH5yeah, I agree it kind of needs to be done.20:28
lardmanhopefully the new DSP has more memory, I need to check20:28
derflardman: And CELT!20:28
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lardmanderf: of course :)20:29
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lardmanI'm ever hopeful that it will just be a case of adding the input/output plumbing + #pragmas and it will now just work20:29
derfWell, it supposedly works with CCS already.20:30
lardmanshould do as it's the Ti bridge in use this time20:30
lardmanexpensive though, I hope there's an OS debugger, etc. available20:30
derfWell, that's running with just the DSP BIOS, no OS.20:31
lardmanthat is the OS20:31
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lardmanNokia will have added to it, but the core is probably the same20:31
derfI mean, they're using it without Linux.20:32
derfSo, not exactly something I could replicate, even if I had CCS (which I do at work, but I can't use that for personal projects).20:32
lardmanit might be worth looking at doing something if we have to this time round20:33
lardmananyway, will have to wait for hw to do testing with20:33
lardmanbut I've had enough of dbg() (aka printf for DSP)20:33
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derfYeah, no kidding.20:33
derfAt least you got that far! I could never get it past rebooting the device when it tried to load the task.20:34
Passelijust installed fremantle sdk, and script is missing, what i am missing?20:35
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wiretappedLOL @ "Up to 1GB of application memory (256 MB RAM, 768 MB virtual memory)"20:35
wiretappedthe android kernel is compiled with CONFIG_SWAP=n20:36
wiretappedwhile nokia is going to roll with 3x as much swap as ram20:36
wiretappedwtf guys20:36
tigertwell, swap helps you know20:36
pH5Passeli: should be installed by the osso-af-sb-startup in /usr/bin20:37
wiretappedswap helps me wait20:37
tigertdude, yes, if you have a harddisk20:37
zerojaySwap isn't that slow these days.20:37
tigertwhich, in this case, you don't20:37
PasseliThe following packages have unmet dependencies: osso-af-sb-startup: Depends: hildon-initscripts but it is not going to be installed20:38
PasseliE: Broken packages20:38
johnxwiretapped, swap help you wait instead of having the low memory killer go off and just end something like on android20:39
lardmanderf: yeah, you have to quickly restart dsp_dld20:39
lardmanderf: and even that won't work sometimes and you're in for a reboot :)20:39
lardmanderf: but if we have another watchdog this time, the same will be true20:39
qwerty12_N810lardman: if it's the exiting of dsp_dld that is causing you to reboot, then edit /etc/init.d/dsp-init and change the dsmetool arguments20:40
wiretappedjohnx: android seems to handle it well... they've got a patched oom killer, and a sacrificial lamb process which gets killed first after which they have some room to breathe20:41
Passeliit seems that osso-af-sb-startup depends on theme-config, but no such package exist20:41
* wiretapped is still getting an n900 but is very disappointed to see 256mb there20:41
johnxandroid is a pretty different platform. they require a lot more in the way of applications being able to be able to save state and suspend when asked from what I can tell20:42
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qwerty12_N810hullo johnx20:43
johnxand saving state to disk, quitting, reopening later and reloading state sounds about the same as getting swapped out and back in to me :)20:43
johnxallo qwerty12_N810 :)20:43
lardmanhey johnx20:44
johnxhi lardman20:44
johnxI got sucked in, I should really be just on my way to work though :)20:44
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Luke-Jrtigert: 3x swap is impossible to use, at least on N81020:46
Luke-Jrtigert: zerojay: swap on MMC is slower than on HD20:47
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SpeedEvilHow slow is SD?20:47
Luke-Jrmy wired mouse is acting like my wireless does when it has a low battery.... wtf20:48
Corsacmpf, 18mm is pretty thick20:48
aol_yes. very.20:48
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zerojayLuke, who said it's on mmc?20:49
johnsqLuke-Jr: have you tried midori on tablet?20:49
Luke-Jrzerojay: fast SSD are more expensive than RAM I think20:50
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Luke-Jrso they'd just have used RAM in that case20:50
Luke-Jrjohnsq: no20:50
johnsqLuke-Jr: just build on desktop looks promising, will try to build it later.20:50
SpeedEvilI mean - how fast is the SD card.20:51
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SpeedEviland the SSD - or has nobody got hardware?20:51
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SpeedEviljohnsq: yes - which unfortunately doesn't help - my 12megabyte/s card (on USB2) gets 1.3 on a phone.20:52
Luke-Jrjohnsq: AFAIK, midori = gtk20:52
johnsqLuke-Jr: yes webkit+gtk20:52
Luke-Jrjohnsq: I don't use GTK thingws20:52
zerojayGuys, i wouldn't worry about it.20:52
displaguedoes the n900 have accelerometers?  I'm just wondering if the screenshot of the call in progress means that your display will always be sideways if you have it standing longways on your desk20:53
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zerojayIt has accelerometers.20:53
displaguethey should have included that in the specifications page (under Input?)20:54
johnsqSpeedEvil: then the hardware/cpu is limiting the speed, i always thought the speeds are so low, that everywhere the limits are reached20:54
* Luke-Jr wishes he had time to design a *decent* handheld20:54
wirelessdreameranyone know if the chipset supports usb host20:54
SpeedEviljohnsq: I know - I was wondering if the 900 would have a nice fast one.20:54
SpeedEvilvladovg: USB2 host?20:54
SpeedEviljohnsq: interface to that is20:55
vladovgdont know20:55
ShadowJKSequential read/write speed is a meaningless number for use as swap anyway. What you want Random IOPS.20:55
Luke-JrShadowJK: is it?20:55
Luke-Jrsince when does SSD care whether sequential or random anyhow?20:55
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Sure. But they tend to approximate the same for SSD - very different for HD of course20:56
GeneralAntilleswirelessdreamer, it's OTG.20:56
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: at usb2 speeD?20:56
ShadowJKLuke-Jr, since their native block size is half meg and OS does 4K writes20:56
GeneralAntillesProbably not a full 480Mbps20:56
GeneralAntillesBut enough.20:56
SpeedEvilShadowJK: it's really not half a meg.20:56
ShadowJKMaybe not half meg, somewhere between 128k and 512k though.20:56
* SpeedEvil realises he hasn't looked at erase block sizes for a while.20:57
vladovgUSB:USB 2.0 host/client, 480Mbit/s, OTG 1.020:57
SpeedEvilThere are ways round that though.20:57
vladovgit is USB220:57
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, nothing that's available though20:57
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ShadowJKfor mmc/sd20:58
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ShadowJKfilesystem doesn't matter because swap bypasses the filesystem20:58
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: I got some orders of magnitude faster than that when I did random write tests on SD cards - it wasn't doing a 128/512K erase and rewrite for each block.20:58
vladovgBattery-Capacity:1320 mAh20:58
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vladovgn810 is 150020:59
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johnsqvladovg: smaller size or not enough space available20:59
GeneralAntillesSmaller screen size reduces consumption, thankfully.20:59
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, try something like iozone -aeo20:59
simulathe battery is swappable and small... just carry an extra in your car21:00
vladovgGSM modul with 3G21:00
SpeedEvilI wonder if it can survive a battery swap without reboot21:00
brbrbrN800 was cooler. just need to find tiny IR keyboard to use with.21:00
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, seems unlikely.21:00
wiretappedi'm seeing skype but no mention of SIP on the tech specs... anybody know if there is a SIP client built-in?21:00
GeneralAntillesOne can always hope, though.21:00
ShadowJKSD/MMC doesn't have anything that mitigates write amplification :/21:01
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ShadowJKiozone -aeo, 1 meg filesize, 4K random writes, N810 internal mmc: 499kbyte/s21:03
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, Telepathy.21:04
keesjwassup with :P21:04
zerojayIt's getting gangbanged by iFanboys.21:05
Corsac/. maybe21:05
ShadowJKiozone -aeo, 4 meg filesuze, 4 meg sequential write, N810 internal mmc: 9591 kbyte/sec21:05
ShadowJKA pretty big contrast :)21:05
pupnikthat is fast iirc21:05
ShadowJKyeah iirc when I compared internal mmc to a bunch of kingston, sandisk and transcend cards I have, the immc was rather fast21:06
* Stskeeps yawns21:07
wiretappedGeneralAntilles: Yeah, I've used rtcomm plenty... just odd they wouldn't mention it in the specs since SIP is a much-wanted lacking feature in other phones these days21:07
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zerojayLike i said, don't worry too much.21:07
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zerojayThey did mention it.21:07
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GeneralAntilleswiretapped, it was in one of Eldar's screenshots.21:07
zerojayInternet calling21:07
Stskeepswould be weird with no SIP really.21:08
wiretappedzerojay: ah so it is. But "SIP" isn't specifically mentioned anywhere.21:08
wiretappedand the press release doesn't even mention "internet calling"21:09
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zerojayNo, but it's there as far as I know.21:09
Andy80wiretapped: the Nokia website mention it21:09
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wiretappedzerojay: glad to hear it :)21:09
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GeneralAntilleswiretapped, basically, though, anything that's not included in the box can be added pretty easily.21:10
* wiretapped is really excited21:10
zerojayTelepathy is very extensible.21:10
wiretappedGeneralAntilles: Sort of, I know...21:10
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zerojayLook at rtcomm.21:10
wiretappedthere still isn't OTR for rtcomm though, right?21:10
* Andy80 now expects Google to port their apps to Maemo :)21:10
zerojayNo one bothered to try until me a week or so ago.21:11
zerojayI added a few pidgin plugins/telepathy protocols.21:11
zerojaySome worked, some didn't.21:12
zerojayI'll try otr soon.21:12
suihkulokkiwiretapped: if pidgin-otr works with telepathy-haze21:12
wiretappedawesome, thanks21:12
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johnsqAndy80: why, everbody will install android21:12
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zerojayFuck android.21:13
Andy80I wouldn't lol too much :)21:13
GeneralAntillesAmen, zerojay.21:13
Andy80the hardware is almost the same :D21:13
Andy80it can run on N81021:13
wazdAndy80: Google has web-apps, Maemo has the most advanced web-browser, what else do you want? :)21:13
Andy80I imagine it can run on N900 too, if not better21:13
zerojayJava. That's all i need to say.21:13
Andy80wazd: I WANT a NATIVE Gmail client, thanks :)21:13
wazdAndy80: Modest is pretty descent I think21:14
Andy80wazd: and native Google Maps, with Latitude support :ç21:14
wiretappedAndy80: you mean like an imap client?21:14
zerojayModest ftw,21:14
zerojayVia imap.21:14
zerojayAnd no one uses latitude. Lol21:14
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ShadowJKWhat's latitude?21:14
wazdyeah, fuck latitude :D21:15
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zerojayThe idea is solid, but no one uses it or wants to, so...21:15
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Andy80other things I really would like are: a native Qik client and... sms/phone API :)21:16
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zerojayQik would be nice.21:16
Andy80zerojay: Qik would simply rulez :D21:17
Andy80and / support too wouldn't be bad21:17
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johnsqAndy80: you write it :)21:17
Andy80don't know if the flash 9.4 plugin supports front webcam21:17
Andy80anyone here can test please ;) ?21:18
simulathere is a user facing webcam as well21:18
* wiretapped would like a pony21:18
wiretappedpreferably without swap21:18
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tigertjust run one app at a time and it never hits swap anyway21:19
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simulai wonder how much ram of the 256 will be available for user apps :)21:20
wiretappedtigert: :)21:20
johnsqsimula: as much you need just install a working  linux21:21
Luke-Jr"iPhone Jailbreaking Could Crash Cellphone Towers, Apple Claims"21:21
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ShadowJKLuke-Jr, have you scrutinized/flamed the nokia phone drivers yet?21:21
ShadowJKiirc fonet?21:22
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wiretappedLuke-Jr: that is why I want a phone a don't need to jailbreak... I don't want to be responsible for crashing cellphone towers !21:23
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wiretappeds/phone a/phone I/21:23
infobotwiretapped meant: Luke-Jr: that is why I want a phone I don't need to jailbreak... I don't want to be responsible for crashing cellphone towers !21:23
SouBEi'm new with maemo. is it possible to install a self compiled kernel to N900?21:23
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tigertSouBE: why?21:23
lardmanit ought to be yes21:23
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simulajohnsq... damn small linux would leave me a lot more than ubuntu ;)21:23
StskeepsSouBE: all tablets have been able to accept self compiled kernels :)21:23
wiretappedtigert: WRONG ANSWER21:24
ShadowJKSouBE, nobody has a N900 yet, but if it's like the previous 770, N800 and N810, then yes21:24
SouBEShadowJK: thanks21:24
tigertsure, you can21:24
Luke-Jrit's not like the previous21:24
Luke-Jrit has cell phone capabilities21:24
wiretappedtigert: thats better :)21:24
Luke-Jrshort of an official statement from Nokia, such an assumption seems like a bad idea21:24
tigertI just meant the one in there is tuned for that hardware21:24
tigertI guess one might put in a custom one like before, dunno since I never tried21:25
Stskeepsflasher supposedly supports rx-51 in 3.5-beta.. and this one takes a kernel image :P21:25
Stskeepsso if it doesnt work on rx-51, it'd be silly21:25
GeneralAntilles^ official enough?21:25
wiretappedcustom ones can be equally tuned for that hardware too though21:25
Luke-JrStskeeps: every jailed device has been flashable, if you had a signed kernel21:26
maswanShadowJK: well, nobody is a bit restrictive. I know a guy that does have one. He's not saying much though. ;)21:26
SouBEN900 looks nifty for mobile IP development =)21:26
StskeepsLuke-Jr: it's more of a bother to add kernel signatures21:26
wiretappedlol @ "jailbreak: not found"21:27
fiferboyHa! Personal Menu is in "Maemo Select"21:28
fiferboyI'm guessing it would be tricky to run in maemo521:30
Luke-JrGeneralAntilles: that doesn't actually say21:30
Luke-Jrit's just a bunch of marketting using the words "free" and "open"21:30
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Luke-Jrjust like they did with the past devices21:30
lardmanLuke-Jr: stop being so pessimistic21:31
Luke-Jrlardman: realistic, you mean; besides, supposedly there have already been official statements that it won't *really* be free21:31
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GeneralAntilleslardman, you mean, "stop being a goddamn troll".21:32
lardmancan you give me a url for that?21:32
Luke-Jrlardman: ask GeneralAntilles: [11:58:50] <GeneralAntilles> OpenGL is closed. So, check and check.21:32
lardmanLuke-Jr: we're not talking about free, we're talking about being able to flash a kernel21:32
zerojayOh gawd.21:32
lardmanindeed opengl is closed21:32
Stskeepsdon't feel the troll..21:32
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: eww21:32
Luke-Jrlardman: the linked blog makes no specific reference to the ability to use custom kernels21:32
johnsqStskeeps: feed21:32
svu_does anobody know, will there be another "500 devices for FOSS folks" program this time?21:32
lardmanLuke-Jr: no, so what21:32
Stskeepsjohnsq: yeah, err, that was what i meant21:33
Sygo..or was it? <wink>21:33
zerojayLuke, you just like being argumenting. :)21:33
lardmanLuke-Jr: it's not certain by any means, but I see no reason or indeed ability to stop people flashing their own kernels21:33
lardmanLuke-Jr: if you have root, after all, you can do what you like21:33
Luke-Jrlardman: the new cell phone capabilities are potential reason to be concerned, IMO21:33
SpeedEvilIt's quite likely the GSM/... is on a seperate core21:34
lardmanyes, but I imagine that's encapsulated so that it can't be misused21:34
lardmanin the same was it was on the Freerunner21:34
Luke-Jrlardman: the Freerunner had to go to effort to ensure their device was free. Nokia doesn't have a track record of caring much.21:34
lardmanwe're not talking about free here21:35
lardmanthere are closed parts, that's not what we;re discussing21:35
Luke-Jrthey are the same thing accomplished with different methods21:35
lardmanbeing free has little or nothing to do with being able to flash a kernel21:36
Luke-Jrit has everything to do with it21:36
GeneralAntillesLuke-Jr, oh bullshit.21:36
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Luke-Jrlardman: if you can't modify the kernel in the first place, the source is useless; and vice-versa21:36
GeneralAntillesLuke-Jr, it's one thing to advocate your point of view, but please refrain from tossing around outright lies.21:36
Luke-Jrthey are inherently linked21:36
lardmanthe current devices have closed components, we can flash their kernels, QED21:36
* zerojay sighs.21:36
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Luke-Jrlardman: "free" applies to the kernel as much as to the components...21:37
lardmansee my previous post21:37
SpeedEvilyou can be able to flash a kernel with opensource components - and end up with a functioning but useless device - my DSL modem for example.21:37
lardmanthe kernel is free21:37
lardmansome modules are not21:37
Stskeepsprobably fully open kernel.21:37
lardmanhow does that stop you flashing a new one?21:37
Luke-Jrlardman: my point is we don't *know* if the kernel is free yet, other than maybe having the code21:38
qwerty12_N810Why are we having this argument when, for three tablets, Nokia have produced the sources of the kernel AND allowed to you flash the resulting image?21:38
Luke-Jrbut that code is not usable if they require a signed kernel21:38
lardmanqwerty12_N810: indeed21:38
Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: I'm just saying it's not a given that will continue with the new cell connectivity21:38
SpeedEvilqwerty12_N810: the tablets have not had GSM - and carrier subsidy. (AIUI)21:38
GeneralAntillesLuke-Jr, ofono.org21:38
lardmanLuke-Jr: the question is really how you ensure that only a signed kernel can be used. How would you do this?21:38
GeneralAntillesLuke-Jr, now drop it and move on.21:38
RST38hreMoo all21:38
jeremiahlardman: There are actually lots of ways to do that.21:39
lardmanlet's hear it ;) we have root remember21:39
Luke-Jrlardman: kernel obviously can restrict any/all access to flash21:39
Luke-Jrroot has no power except what the kernel gives him21:39
zerojayAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh JAY SMASH21:40
RST38hAnyone knows the / partitiojnn size in N900?21:40
SpeedEvillardman: And bootloader doesn't have to load unsigned kernel. And initial bootloader can be in ROM.21:40
Stskeepsyou people are worrying too much.21:40
homeasvsLuke-Jr, speculating is useless21:40
Luke-Jrhomeasvs: indeed.21:40
jeremiahSpeculating may be useless, but gesticulating is useful.21:41
Luke-JrStskeeps: I'm not worried, just pointing out that if an unflashable kernel is a deal breaker, I wouldn't preorder until I see an official statement ;)21:41
SpeedEvilAlso - a seperate issue is a carrier lock - which canbe seperate - it may be that the device is locked to a carrier, but otherwise open.21:41
Stskeepsi'm sure nokia will let you destroy your tablet all you want21:41
xnt14is this normal? malloc: /Users/chet/src/bash/src/parse.y:5561: assertion botched21:41
Luke-JrSpeedEvil: carrier lock would require a locked kernel I'm pretty sure21:41
xnt14I just mistyped cd .../21:41
jeremiahLuke-Jr: Why?21:41
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: assuming the GSM isn't on a seperate core21:41
lardmanSpeedEvil: yes, that I agree with21:41
jeremiahThat doesn't make anysense.21:42
SpeedEvil(or has encrypted firmware blob)21:42
Luke-Jrjeremiah: because of FCC regulations, at the least21:42
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jeremiahWhat FCC regulations say you need a "locked" kernel?21:42
Luke-Jrcell phones are required to operate on any network available for emergency calls21:42
RST38hWell, GSM *is* going to be on a separate core, talking with AT command set21:42
Corsachmhm, fremantle is ubuntu based or still debian based?21:42
Luke-Jrso any such provider locking needs to be done in the kernel21:42
jeremiahCorsac: Debian21:43
lardmanwhat was our last troll called? On the ml?21:43
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: not if it's on a seperate core.21:43
Corsacok, thanks21:43
RST38hBut the oFono thing is open sourced, so there is good chance you can see how it sends those at commands to the baseband chip21:43
jeremiahCorsac: Ubuntu is debian based too BTW21:43
Luke-JrSpeedEvil: how will the seperate core know it's emergency?21:43
jeremiahRST38h: Exactly!21:43
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: ?21:43
Luke-Jrwithout allowing the kernel to send any arbitrary # as "emergency" to bypass the lock21:43
Corsacjeremiah: yeah but it has many core modifications21:43
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: emergency call only 911/999/112/... in the firmware of the phone.21:44
jeremiahCorsac: "core modifications"? Like Launchpad and unfree media codecs?21:44
Luke-JrSpeedEvil: and what if your emergency number IS different?21:44
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: in the firmware of the GSM core I mena.21:44
Corsacjeremiah: yeah, that too :)21:44
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: also - many countries do not support emergency calls.21:44
StskeepsLuke-Jr: proof: go read the beta's kernel config's and see if you see any glaring missing functionality21:44
SpeedEvil(without valid SIM)21:44
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Corsacjeremiah: (i'm a debian developer btw so I'm kind-of aware of debian/ubuntu diffs)21:45
PasseliSpeedEvil: you can call emergency calls without sim21:45
SpeedEvilPasseli: In some countries.21:45
SpeedEvilPasseli: not in the UK.21:45
Passelithat's pure dumb, for what reason not?21:46
SpeedEvilI'm unsure.21:46
SpeedEvilI just know that the several times I've tested it over the years with different phones and SIMs it hasn't worked.21:46
lardmanwhy would you have a charged phone but no sim?21:46
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Luke-Jrlardman: emergencies21:47
lardmanprobably something to do with the police needing to know the number that has dialled them21:47
pH5SpeedEvil: to reduce anonymous prank calls, supposedly21:47
lardmanLuke-Jr: yeah, what sort though, one in which you break into a Nokia store, cut yourself on the glass on the way in, and need to dial for an ambulance?21:47
Luke-Jrlardman: I keep a charged cell phone w/o service for 2 purposes: 1, my wife can use it in an emergency if I'm not there, 2, I have a spare battery always charged21:48
pH5At least I think that was the reason the german regulator gave.21:48
Luke-JrpH5: how is it anonymous when your coordinates go with it?21:48
lardmanpH5: sounds reasonable21:48
lardmanLuke-Jr: coordinates? This isn't the USA21:48
Luke-Jrlardman: GPS isn't USA specific AFAIK21:48
johnsqlardman: they never knowed on old plain phones.21:49
lardmanLuke-Jr: but reporting it on the phones is21:49
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pH5Luke-Jr: I don't care, it wasn't my decision.21:49
Luke-Jrlardman: really?21:49
lardmanyes, caused all sorts of problems with voip being considered a main phone number over there so i've read21:50
SpeedEvilThis was _way_ before GPS was around.21:50
SpeedEvilGSM in the UK hit about ... 1993?21:50
SpeedEvilWhen adding GPS to a phone would have doubled its weight (ish)21:50
lardmannot sure GPS was even allowed for non-military when phones came in here21:51
SpeedEvillardman: it was.21:51
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SpeedEvillardman| you're probably thinking of the removal of selective availability in 1993? Which removed the intentional +-150m error.21:52
zerojayWjt: i'm going to try telepathy-butterfly tonight. I'll let you know how it goes.21:52
SpeedEvillardman: IIRC raegan decided early on that GPS would be available to all after teh shootdown of the airliner that went into russian airspace.21:52
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lardmanwell at least not affordable then21:53
lardmancertainly I'd never seen one and I used to fly alot21:53
lardmanlight aircraft that is21:53
GeneralAntillesNo emergency without a SIM is crazy.21:54
GeneralAntillesI can call 911 with any old cellphone I own.21:54
GeneralAntillesSIM or none.21:54
lardmanbut most people probably won't have a charged old phone lying about21:54
lardmanso it makes little difference, unless you specifically keep one because you can do this21:55
SpeedEvillardman: the early GPSs were sequential one channel ones - that would have really sucked for airplane use21:55
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GeneralAntilleslardman, we keep them in our glove compartments in all of our cars for emergencies.21:55
lardmanI have one on me, so does everyone else, so why do I need another in the car?21:55
Firebird:o current libSDL(in repo) isn't patched with GLES21:55
GeneralAntilleslardman, lost, stolen, discharged, broken?21:55
SpeedEvilhowever - in hte UK also - you can get pay-as-you-go SIMs - where you have to make a call every 3 months - but the credit doesn't timeout.21:55
Luke-Jrlardman: everyone does not carry a cell phone21:56
GeneralAntillesYou get creamed by a truck in the middle of nowhere and your phone goes flying out of an open window?21:56
paroneayeaany news on whether the n900 will be reflashable, and whether it'll be vendor-locked?21:56
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GeneralAntillesparoneayea, rights shouldn't be any different than current tablets.21:56
SpeedEvilparoneayea: wait for the announcements.21:56
GeneralAntillesMousey, currency conversion not to be taken as MSRP21:57
paroneayeaSpeedEvil: yes, suppose I should wait :)21:57
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lardmananyway, I see that the Americans like being able to have spare phones to make emergency calls, but I can't really see the point when balanced against crank calls. Let's stop this conversation anyway21:57
feldMousey: ffffff21:57
zerojayWell, glad to see #maemo being brought down to tmo levels.21:57
GeneralAntilleslardman, apparently not an issue here.21:57
Stskeepszerojay: nah, we didn't start discussing politics yet21:57
qwerty12_N810zerojay: it's only a sign of what's to come :\21:57
Luke-Jrlardman: GPS in the USA at least21:57
GeneralAntillesSo it sounds like more European silliness.21:57
Mouseyfeld: i kno rite?21:57
GeneralAntillesLike all those cameras you guys put up.21:57
Luke-Jrlardman: prank calls will get you fined at least21:58
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RST38hSts: Should we?21:58
Mouseycan't there be like a N390 or something without the phone chip SHACKLES21:58
lardmanLuke-Jr: but how do they know who you are if you have a phone with no position reporting caps?21:58
Mouseywill there be a cdma version? no21:58
* Mousey is done ranting randomly21:58
zerojayWings, you mean.21:58
RST38hSts: In fact, I suggest starting with gay rights or the palestinian conflicts, there is no reason to waste time on lesser trolling topics21:58
Luke-Jrlardman: all phones in like the past 10 years have position reporting caps21:58
lardmanin America21:58
Luke-Jrlardman: if they don't, the cell towers can still triangulate21:58
StskeepsRST38h: GPL violations by gay palestians!21:59
wazdwow, n900 can call and surf the web same time! True hardcore :)21:59
feldMousey: well i saw the specs and thought "this is everything i wanted in a phone!" and then i looked at the price and bricks were shat21:59
Luke-Jryes, that's what we're talking about...21:59
RST38hSts: <speechless>21:59
lardmanwe live in a fairly densly populated country ;)21:59
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zerojayFeld: cheaper than n9721:59
Mouseyyah, the one thing i love about the N810 is it ISN'T a phone21:59
SpeedEvilfeld: it's about similar than equivalent hardware21:59
RST38hheya wazd21:59
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Mouseybut i get to be the black sheep i guess21:59
wazdRST38h: remoo :)21:59
SpeedEvilfeld: carrier subsidy will bring it down a lot.21:59
* lardman moves onto something more productive, like watching trash TV21:59
feldSpeedEvil: is there an announced carrier yet?22:00
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feldi mean, with it being quad band i can roam on ATT's network if it's through tmobile i guess22:00
SpeedEvilfeld: not as far as I'm aware. I'd be surprised if none takes it up though.22:00
Luke-JrI thought it was announced or leaked as T-Mobile22:00
SpeedEvil(but I would not be surprised if you ended up without all the freedom if you do take a subsidised phone)22:00
Mouseylol phone and freedom in same sentence22:01
feldSpeedEvil: freedom how? i mean, couldn't i reload the OS on it myself so it's not gimped?22:01
Luke-JrNokia blogged that jailbreaking is unsupported... ;)22:01
feldor are they putting in hardware restrictions22:01
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, knowing Nokia and knowing Maemo, I would.22:01
Mouseywhy did it have to be a phone!! what in the world were they thinking?22:01
feldbah either way this makes me not want to buy a netbook and scrape up cash for this phone22:01
RST38hMousey: Anybody forces you to use it as a phone?22:01
GeneralAntillesMousey, they were thinking they wanted the money to finance further development.22:01
GeneralAntillesTo get that money they need to sell to more than a niche market.22:02
GeneralAntillesThus, phone.22:02
SpeedEvilfeld: freedom as in having root - for a carrier subsidised phone. For a unsubsidised phone - I don't see an issue.22:02
wjtzerojay: oh, we got that going on fremantle too :)22:02
Mouseybah, you know they've marketed it wrong to begin with22:02
zerojayMousey, do you tether your tablet?22:02
Mouseyzerojay: yep22:02
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wjtzerojay: one pitfall you might encounter: normalizes to
Luke-Jr"-sh: jailbreak: not found" ☹22:02
SpeedEvilfeld: I simply have some doubts that the carriers will be willing to giveup all of their current revenue streams with the phone in order to give it to you at $99 on a contract.22:03
zerojayWjt: thanks.22:03
Mouseyzerojay: to any device, now i'm stuck on a gsm network, and a crappy one at that, with no chance of cdma, unless i... tether it22:03
wjtzerojay: so depending on how robust the Diablo address book is, it might break22:03
zerojayYeah... Hmm.22:03
Luke-JrMousey: does a CDMA network exist that *allows* tethering?22:03
Mouseyi've tethered on sprint since 199922:03
zerojayAny idea of what's killing galago?22:04
Luke-JrI know Sprint doesn't allow tethering...22:04
Mouseyif by doesn't you mean does, then yes22:04
Luke-Jrmaybe you're getting away with it, but do your ToS allow it?22:04
SpeedEvilfeld: but talking about this further is pointless till announcements by carriers.22:04
MouseyLuke-Jr: i can tell you it's never been an issue22:04
Mouseyall the carriers ever announce is, hi, welcome to our proprietary network, give us all your cash22:04
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Luke-JrMousey: some of us prefer to play by the rules ;)22:04
wjtzerojay: not sure exactly what, no, sorry; I'll take another look when I have a minute22:05
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MouseyLuke-Jr: whatever that means. like carriers aren't still future-shocked by the "rules" of internet access, and why everyone hates them for not Doing It Right(tm)22:05
wjtzerojay: one thing you could check (with dbus-monitor) is if Haze is returning the empty string as the status type for facebook contacts, or whether it says "available", "away" etc.22:07
Luke-JrMousey: they make those rules of internet access over their network22:07
wjtzerojay: because it looked like that would kill galago22:07
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* wjt ->22:07
zerojayI'll try that, thanks.22:08
RST38hHas Fremantle SDK been updated today?22:08
MouseyLuke-Jr: right! the exact reason internet devices should be internet devices and not only-internet-by-cell-carrier-permission-maybe-if-you-pay-enough-and-then-even-limitedly devices22:08
Luke-JrMousey: huh?22:08
RST38hMousey: N900 has got WiFi22:08
zerojayWelcome to reality, mousey.22:09
Luke-Jroh, is that the confusion?22:09
MouseyRST38h: yes, but i don't have tcm contracts22:09
Mouseyzerojay: Reality(tm) by Nokia22:09
RST38hMousey: What is TCM?22:09
Luke-Jrpeople assume cell phone means no WifI?22:09
Mouseythat's not my assumption22:09
Mouseymy assumption is, it's a phone, BUT ONLY IF you have Carrier X, not Y or Z22:09
Luke-JrMousey: so you'd rather have Wifi only than Wifi+cell?22:09
MouseyLuke-Jr: i'd perfer Wifi + Slot-for-cell-radio22:10
RST38hMousey: It is not tied to a particular carrier, you can always buy it unsubsidized22:10
Luke-JrMousey: that's more or less what GSM is supposed to be22:10
* RST38h does not understand what Mousey's problem with N900 is22:10
zerojayJust don't put a sim in it then, sheesh.22:10
SpeedEvilMousey: slots are _horribly_ problematic.22:10
MouseyRST38h: it IS tied to a specific few carriers, namely GSM carriers22:10
paroneayeaRST38h: that's been confirmed?22:10
MouseySpeedEvil: maybe, but flexibility is important22:10
RST38hMousey: It is not. You can use WiFi, just like with N800/N81022:10
Luke-JrMousey: GSM is the standard for carrier independent hardware22:10
paroneayeaRST38h: that would make me happy if it is22:10
kirmamousey: only thing that complicates things with addition of cell phone network radio is FCC (and others) certification to be sold on the market...22:10
Luke-JrMousey: GSM = slot for carrier22:11
RST38hparoneayea: Nokia always sells its devices unsubsidized22:11
Mouseykirma: which.......... raises the price significantly22:11
SpeedEvilI think Mousey meant the whole radio - not the SIM.22:11
kirmaUS just has such a backwards market that people think that phones and contracts are always bundled22:11
paroneayeaRST38h: ah, great22:11
MouseyLuke-Jr: ...unless it's CDMA22:11
Luke-JrMousey: Sprint avoids GSM because it doesn't want you using carrier-independent phones22:11
kirmamousey: I don't believe that22:11
RST38hparoneayea: there is no reason to think this one will be any different22:11
SpeedEvilRST38h: In addition to being available subsidised.22:12
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Mouseyanybody who wants to switch phones or carriers in the middle of a contract knows all about that belief22:12
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zerojayYou're upset at nokia because you chose a backwards ass provider.22:12
Luke-JrMousey: it's like complaining that a DOCSIS cable modem doesn't work with your proprietary-protocol cable ISP22:12
RST38hSpeedEvil: Correct, but this we already know22:12
kirmaoh, yes, of course US also has backwards market in the sense there are operators and networks that just don't even have SIMs that could be switched around.22:12
Mouseyi'm upset it has a cel phone chip and a right-handed-centric spacebar22:12
Mouseyraising the price, and lowering the access22:12
zerojayIt's raising the access. Wtf.22:12
RST38hMousey: Ok, hypnotize yourself into thinking that it has no cell phone chip22:13
Luke-JrMousey: I propose building our own handheld device22:13
MouseyRST38h: that would work except for the PRICE22:13
RST38hMousey: Feeling better now?22:13
fiferboyIsn't the spacebar actually easier for lefties if they are holding the stylus left and typing right?22:13
* fiferboy is a lefty22:13
zerojayThis whole conversation is full of fail.22:13
MouseyLuke-Jr: i propose nokia not stop selling the n810 for a while22:13
Luke-JrMousey: Nokia stopped selling the N810 a while ago22:13
Luke-Jrand stopped supporting it like a year or more ago22:13
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: google GTA02-core22:13
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RST38hMousey: If you do not like the price, you do not need to pay it, just do not buy the device22:13
Luke-JrSpeedEvil: seen it22:14
kirmathe true cost of HSPA modem and anything related to unit being certified is under 20 euros. not a huge extra cost, I say.22:14
hircusthis is rather silly, but how does one reposition the contact applet in Diablo?22:14
kirmabecause I've seen unsubsidized usb hspa modems sold at that cost22:14
hircusI can resize, but dragging works only very rarely22:14
RST38hkirma: And it is part of $300 or so it costs Nokia to build the device, way less than the price you pay for it =)22:14
MouseyRST38h: hence the nokia-please-dont-stop-selling-the-n810-for-a-while sentiment22:15
SpeedEvilkirma: AIUI the pay-as-you-go USB hspa modems are more expensive thanthat - eventhe pay-as-you-go ones are actually subsidised a bit by the carrier.22:15
fiferboySpacebar notwithstanding, I think the N900 will be better for lefties since most apps will be flick-scroll instead of right-hand-scrollbars22:15
RST38hMousey: So, how many N810s are you ready to buy, personally?22:15
SpeedEvil(having said that - you will get that price if you buy 10-100K)22:15
MouseyRST38h: well i'm yet to get my replacement for the one i lost, but once i have a job it'll be my first.. nevertheless, who knows how long it'll last before needing fixing or replacing again.. so for a while pls22:16
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RST38hMousey: You see, unless you are ready to buy 10000-100000 N810s, it makes no sense for Nokia to restart production22:17
Mousey*sigh*, i hate muggles22:17
kirmaat least zte has been selling very low cost hspa modems in some markets, without any obvious subsidies22:17
Mouseynot that any of you are muggles, just that that's who nokia has to get to buy their devices for it to be worth them being made22:17
johnsqMousey: you can buy a smartq5 as replacement22:17
zerojayMousey: so... What does that make you?22:18
GeneralAntilleshircus, you kind of have to dive in and swipe it.22:18
RST38hMousey: Is it a surprise to you that Nokia makes its devices to sell them and make profit?22:18
GeneralAntilleshircus, don't tap, then drag, just make it all one fluid motion.22:18
kirmavery large portion of phones are actually sold to customers without any operator involvement... well, almost everywhere except US22:18
Mouseyzerojay: clearly i'm an idiot whose preferences hold no merit22:18
GeneralAntillesMousey, you're in reaction mode, so you're not being entirely rational.22:19
MouseyRST38h: if they'd marketed it right to begin with it wouldn't be an issue. but volume uber alles22:19
MouseyGeneralAntilles: i guess. i'm gonna miss you guys tho.. i already do =(22:19
RST38hMousey: You really think you could have marketed N8x0 better than Nokia?22:19
MouseyRST38h: i'm no marketeer, but it doesn't take a race car driver to spot bad driving22:20
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paroneayeaback seat race car drivers22:20
Mouseyparasight: haha, the scourge of the track22:20
RST38hMousey: So how would you market it?22:20
Mouseyand by parasight i mean paroneayea22:20
* RST38h senses blood in the water22:20
zerojayThe tablets weren't marketed for the masses because it wasn't for them22:21
zerojayIt was for us... Devs and power users.22:21
kirmaUS mobile telecom market is way fucked up. the fact that Nokia hasn't had interest to bend and support it going even more fucked up is the primary reason why they have such a weak market position there...22:21
zerojayTo get a community together for this point.22:21
Mouseyzerojay: did you SEE the commercials?? it WAS marketed to the masses.. that's all Nokia's interested in22:21
zerojayWhen it does go mass market.22:22
Sygokirma, I dont know about interest, there was a wimax edition of the N810, if that doesnt scream interest in the US market, what does?22:22
zerojayThe earlier tablets weren't.22:22
Mouseyi'm sorry, but US$780 is not mass market22:22
zerojayAnd we knew that. They told us.22:22
GeneralAntillesMousey, oh? You found a US MSRP?22:22
suihkulokkikirma: not completly true.. if you have a convinging enough product (the cupertino product we shall not mention on this channel), the operators (like at&t did) will bend over for you22:22
MouseySygo: that was the first one to get the a22:22
Luke-JrSygo: huh? WiMax doesn't exist in the US really22:22
RST38hMousey: Where did you get this price?22:22
MouseyRST38h: the internet!22:22
RST38hMousey: Url?22:22
johnsqRST38h: 500Euro europe22:23
RST38hjohnsq: He is trying to "quote" US price22:23
GeneralAntillesEuro never converts directly to dollars.22:23
SygoLuke-Jr, not anymore it doesnt. LOL22:23
RST38hjohnsq: You probably know that US and EU prices for Nokia phones differ?22:23
johnsqRST38h: yes, but make the price pausible22:24
MouseyRST38h: google "Nokia n900 $780" you'll get quite a few hits22:24
kirmawimax edition is... interesting, but the thing that Nokia doesn't like is absurd operator control at cost of manufacturers *and* users, and that's the reason why it has suffered on the market... because the operators don't want their customers to have liberty of making sensible decisions like the GSM users most of the rest of the world22:24
Luke-JrMousey: mass market = cell phone22:24
RST38hjohnsq: I would guess $500 in US, similar to the N810 prices22:24
RST38hjohnsq: Where you had e400 in EU, and $400 in US22:24
MouseyLuke-Jr: i said that22:24
GeneralAntillesMousey, yet none of them are even remotely official.22:24
kirmasuihkulokki: well. it also involves nasty stuff such as exclusivity agreements that Nokia doesn't value *that* much.22:25
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RST38hAll right folks, while you feed on this young Harry Potter troll, I will go sleep.22:25
MouseyGeneralAntilles: thats good22:25
RST38hDifficult day tomorrow.22:25
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kirmabut true, yes, if you have a product that has basically a powerful religion supporting it.22:25
Mouseyi got called troll! D=22:25
Sygowho hasnt at one time or another? lol22:26
lbtN900 :)22:26
zerojayGuess the sky's just red for some people.22:27
wirelessdreamermost of the people are just sitting in this room drooling over the face that the n900 will be out "soon"22:27
lbtjailbreak: not found ..... ROFL22:27
wirelessdreamerso we're all trolling in a way ;)22:27
Mouseyso fine. i'm the only one in the whole world who cares that it's got a cellular chip and that jacks up the price, limits its security and privacy potential, and isn't ever going to be a carrier i'd subscribe to.. fine22:27
zerojayWow. Nice logic.22:28
Mouseythe one bright spot is that the price Isn't Official(tm)22:28
wirelessdreamerI'm concerned that i'll have to switch to a carrier with horrible customer service, and spotty coverage, from a carrier with great coverage, but it'll be for linux in my pocket22:28
kirmaI guess mousey could get some support from paranoid RMS22:29
MouseyRMS is a retard22:29
Sygowell...I always complained that my N810 *didn't* have GSM, so I for one am happy that it does.22:29
Mouseya genius, but a retard22:29
MouseySygo: you and the known universe22:29
SygoI know, right?! lol22:29
xnt14finally Done! ;)22:29
johnsqnice empty page22:30
Mouseythe crappiest part is, there's no other tablet out there that could compare22:30
johnsqMousey: what bad with the n810?22:31
Mouseyjohnsq: nothing22:31
Mouseyjohnsq: well it coulda used GL22:31
MouseyGL-ES even22:31
Mouseybut i guess the driver never materialized22:31
Mouseyi even got over the mini-sd22:31
Mouseyit's the perfect sysadminning tool22:32
zerojayIt's still on the way apparently.22:32
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Mouseyzerojay: water under the bridge now, eh?22:32
xnt14johnsq: you don't have js enabled?22:32
johnsqxnt14: never :)22:32
zerojayNo, we were told it's still on the way by quim.22:33
Mouseyzerojay: but if the n810 is discontinued, and the N900 phone-o-rama is all the rage, who's gonna care?22:33
zerojayJust that he's waiting on another company.22:33
zerojayYou. :)22:33
Mouseynot I, i'm yet to replace mine22:33
zerojayAh, right.22:34
Mouseythe glory days of tableteering.. =/22:34
Mouseynow it's all phoneleteering..22:34
maswanMousey: There is one thing missing for it to be a perfect sysadminning tool, a decent password manager. Still trying to dig one up.22:34
Mouseymaswan: yah, except my brain is my password manager, don't trust 'em. ;)22:34
zerojayNow it's tableteering with no limits.22:34
Mouseyzerojay: it's a phone22:35
Mouseywith GSM limits22:35
johnsqmaswan: vim + mcrypt is a good password manager22:35
maswanMousey: Doesn't scale though. Especially when you have a large set of shared passwords.22:35
zerojayIf you say so.22:35
Mouseymaswan: well the n810 is a walking security hole anyway, best to run something like that in a more secure box22:36
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Mouseyzerojay: you're right i guess, they could release a cdma-limited too one, concievably, but being a european company, i won't hold my breath.. tethering is still the best solution, imho22:36
Sygomy N810 has been sitting on my desk stuck in "checking for updates, please wait" for over 20 minutes now...I think it knows the N900 is out there.22:36
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maswanMousey: Well, there is a practical limit to the number of devices I can conveniently carry around all the time..22:38
xxiaoa basic newbie question, is maemo's GUI moving to QT soon?22:38
Stskeepsxxiao: in harmattan AFAIK. however Qt is fully supported by community so you can write your qt apps alright now :)22:39
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keesjnobody posting on the ml?22:41
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xxiaoStskeeps: thanks. is to be obsolete soon?22:43
Stskeepsxxiao: i don't know any time frame on Harmattan. However, that GTK library (Hildon) will be supported like Qt is right now, by community22:45
Stskeepsso it won't be preinstalled on a device, but it will be installable and work22:45
keesjinstallable and rock22:45
xxiaoI have a DVR(digital video recorder) device that is running linux, I was asked to get some GUI on it(widgets,etc). Similar request is from another carpc project(also running linux).22:45
Stskeepsxxiao: you're free to use the Qt libraries to get things going obviously :)22:46
xxiaoStskeeps: looked at maemo, moblin, andriod,nano-x, qt/embedded, wxwidget, I'm good at low-level but not really for these GUIs, at a loss now22:47
keesjxxiao: e17 is also very hot ATM22:47
Stskeepsxxiao: qt is the way to go for a cross platform experience at least :)22:47
xxiaoalso need i18n, qt is a bit heavy in size, but i guess it's the safe choice. Andriod is sexy, but--I'm not too excited by any java stuff22:48
keesjStskeeps: what else but linux go you need?22:48
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xxiaokeesj: who is using e17 these days? i recall redhat was using it for a while22:49
Stskeepsxxiao: all things considered qt looks heavy on the outside but it's really split up in a lot of different libraries :P22:49
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kirmaN900 will still lack Qt on its base installation? if so, it seems a bit odd moment to bring a mass-market device to the market, just before a major API change...22:52
Mouseyapt-get install libqt*22:52
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Stskeepskirma: to the average developer it won't make a difference22:53
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Stskeepsthe dependancy download is transparent22:53
Mouseythey're just Xclients when you get down to it, it's not a big deal if the widgetsets don't match, as long as the requisite libs are installed22:53
aol_anybody an expert on Qt lisencing ?22:53
kirmastskeeps: I'm wondering about the user perspective22:53
Stskeepskirma: most won't notice :)22:53
kirmalike, if I choose to develop directly for Qt, installation of such applications won't be more hassle to the end users?22:54
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Stskeepscorrect - provided these are in extras :)22:55
xxiaoaol_: co-ask, dual-license probably still exists, but the GPL side adds LGPL now22:55
Stskeepsthe qt things22:55
frade_homehi, anybody around using hildon + python ?22:55
kirmaare they, in general?22:55
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Stskeepskirma: yeah22:55
Stskeepskirma: so if you use extras it will be transparent22:55
frade_homewhat is the equivalent in python for the hildon_touch_selector_new_text function?22:55
Stskeepsjust like pymaemo gets taken in by canola installation22:55
aol_xxiao: I'm wondering is there any way to statically link Qt in closed source projects22:56
frade_home(that function disappeared in an update of the python bindings)22:56
aol_other than Qt commercial lisence22:56
Stskeepsaol_: lgpl ..22:56
Luke-Jraol_: static linking is bad anyway22:57
lizardofrade_home: Hildon.TouchSelector(text=True)22:57
Luke-Jrtoo bad it's part of C++22:57
lizardooops I meant hildon.TouchSelector(text=True)22:58
aol_Luke-Jr: yeah I know, but distribution is a pain for (show stopper) without static linking22:58
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Luke-Jraol_: nonsense22:58
aol_maybe on maemo22:58
konttorifrade: sorry, don't know22:58
aol_but think about symbian or windows ce22:58
frade_homelizardo, thanks! that was exactly what i needed22:58
frade_homelizardo, is there any plan to add more parameters information in the python bindings?22:59
frade_homekonttori, there is a python hildon tutorial!!!22:59
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* Luke-Jr notes for any C++/Qt code using templates, LGPL is equivalent to GPL23:00
* frade_home was using the C tutorial and translating it "on the fly"23:00
konttoriah. well, those indt guys rock23:00
* konttori goes to bed now23:00
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frade_homekonttori_, anyway that page is obsolete... hildon.hildon_touch_selector_entry_new_text() doesn't exist23:01
xxiaoanother newbie question, is matchbox still the major window manager on maemo/n8xx?23:01
Stskeepsn8xx yes, n900 it's matchbox223:02
Mouseywill the n8xx be upgradable?23:02
Stskeepsin terms of? :P23:02
Mouseywindow managers23:02
Mouseyor hell OS2009 or whatever23:02
Mouseyor is it like ppc->intel macs; buy new hardware23:03
Stskeepssudo gainroot and go crazy?23:03
Mouseymmmmm, mer23:03
Stskeepsheh, no Mer on RX-51 yet23:03
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Luke-JrMousey: to summarize, not really23:04
zerojayWho said on rx-51? :)23:04
Luke-JrMousey: it's like OS2008 on N77023:04
Stskeepsluke-jr wants to run gentoo on your n8x0 ;)23:05
zerojayNo. It goes further than hacker editions.23:05
Luke-Jrzerojay: how so?23:05
xxiaoso, still matchbox, i think matchbox is using gtk?23:05
lizardofrade_home: no plans ATM, but you can add a bugzilla report ( if you want it included soon :)23:05
zerojayMuch more of a full makeover than the hacker editions.23:06
lizardofrade_home: oh, I see konttori_ showed you our tutorial...23:06
frade_homelizardo, yes, and great, because i was using the C tutorial23:06
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Stskeepszerojay: did you manage to get sponsorship btw?23:06
zerojayIt's not just maemo 5 on n8xx.. It's stuff being totally reimplemented from what i saw.23:07
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StskeepsMer? well, it's more like a re-thinking23:07
zerojayYes, not sure if i can use it though.23:07
frade_homelizardo, oh! there is even the example for home applets! great!23:07
Stskeepswe'll see where it ends up23:07
zerojayMer's an exciting project.23:07
lizardofrade_home: yeah :) but only home widgets ... no status widgets yet23:08
Stskeepszerojay: what however really is needed is community stepping up to be a counterpart in platform development to nokia, within community23:08
Stskeepsand helping where can be helped23:08
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* Mousey bites tongue23:09
* Luke-Jr 's mouse bites Mousey's tongue too23:09
zerojayLuke, wtf was that?23:09
Luke-Jrzerojay: a mouse.23:09
Stskeepsand establishing methods for actually making this happen than bugs getting stuck in and noone taking in the patch :P23:09
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zerojayGot a bunch of operation failed, lol23:10
zerojayI dunno.23:10
zerojayProbably a bug in telepathy-idle.23:11
xxiaoi hope nokia can streamline its platforms asap, the qt/maemo/gtk/symbian/etc is still not clear to me, they probably can fully open source Qt to compete with android, IMHO23:11
javispedrooh, good, slashdot running the n900 story already. time for laughs.23:11
javispedroxxiao, what part of qt is not opensource?23:11
Luke-Jrxxiao: Qt has been fully open source for about 5 years at least23:11
GAN800Stories about Maemo on /. turn /. commenters into Engadget commenters.23:12
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Woollyengadget comments suck23:12
Stskeepsxxiao: on the other hand isn't it glorious to have a flexible platform?23:12
GAN800xxiao, Maemo for high-end stuff, Symbian for mid and low, Qt as the crossplatform toolkit.23:12
GAN800GTK is slowly becoming the legacy toolkit for Maemo.23:13
johnsqxxiao: use gtk or qt and write apps, the toolkit didn't matter, the apps are the work.23:13
zerojayGen800: legacy in linux as a whole as well.23:13
javispedrozerojay, not until we get gnome-qt23:14
xxiaoStskeeps: i sense android is really making a big wave in many devices right now, moblin does not really have much advantage, i like maemo, but it's still "changing"23:15
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xxiaozerojay: not really, KDE almost killed itself with 4.x23:15
GAN800Android is a lot of hype.23:15
GAN800Moblin is mostly a research project.23:15
Stskeepsmoblin is a bit odd.. it seems to be GTK + a toolkit not unlike hildon for netbooks23:16
zerojayXxiao: at least it's alive and innovating.23:16
javispedroxxiao, qt!=kde. see harmattan: it's going to be a frankenstein mix of gnome mobile and qt.23:16
xxiaoGAN800: that's true, but when all companies put money behind it, it could work out. sometimes stupid market could beat smart techs23:16
xxiaoStskeeps: moblin is doing clutter, did not really spend time on that for a yet another new framework23:17
Stskeepsxxiao: sure but clutter isn't really used in apps.. :P23:17
xxiaojavispedro: i know that. but kde is most people get their idea for qt, thank god i'm looking for embedded GUI instead of desktop23:18
Luke-Jrjavispedro: GNOME sucks23:19
johnsqxxiao: i think thats your error in thinking, you must write the application useable on the small touchscreen.23:19
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xxiaojohnsq: my app is a 7" screen, a mid-size23:21
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zerojay10 million hits.23:22
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Stskeepsnot bad23:22
javispedrobah, too much hype23:22
Stskeepsdevelopers!, developers!, developers!23:23
javispedroi'm starting to read about it in sites where I shouldn't be reading about it23:23
johnsqStskeeps: only trolls and speakers..23:23
zerojayI'll be our ballmer.23:23
javispedroso it seems it's going to be a hit/hype machine.23:23
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zerojayI'm fat and sweat enough. Lol23:23
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xxiaojavispedro: read-about-what?23:23
javispedrothis new fangled n900 thing nobody knows nothing about.23:23
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GAN800zerojay, think the airlines will let you fly with a chair?23:25
zerojayA chair?23:26
javispedroballmer's favourite sport. does that ring any bell ;) ?23:26
zerojayShit no. Lol23:26
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GAN800To throw, of course.23:27
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zerojayIf i'm bringing anything, it's the most versatile tool known to man:23:27
zerojayA hockey stick.23:27
Luke-Jrnot a handheld?23:28
qwerty12_N810You want a crowbar23:28
Mouseyprotip: hockey sticks are handhelds23:28
fiferboy It looks like there will be a few Canadians there23:28
qwerty12_N810Canadians? What is this "Canadians" that you talk of?23:29
* qwerty12_N810 hides23:29
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zerojayMy n810 is my left hand.23:29
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Like Northern Americans23:29
zerojayWhich upsets my wife.23:29
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fiferboyActually, we are North Americans23:30
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: I can't remember which is better - Northerners or Suotherners?23:30
qwerty12_N810Southerners of course (/me imagines a glaring lcuk)23:30
fiferboyI'm a Southern Canadian, but still North of most of the USA23:31
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ArSaso southern northern north american23:33
* xnt14 is bored23:34
zerojayEveryone in canada is a southern canadian, lol23:34
* xnt14 is working on a unity documentation app:
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ArSawasn't unity a mouse/keyboard sharing util? :P23:35
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qwerty12_N810I keep going to, even though I know nothing'll have changed23:36
ArSano, that was Synergy... blah for naming23:36
javispedroqwerty12_N810, don't tell anyone, but they'll later correlate the server logs and send free units to those who help most with the ongoing slashdot effect to
ArSajust to listen to the music?23:36
qwerty12_N810javispedro: you have my word ;)23:37
aol_is there client for maemo already btw?23:37
xnt14ArSa, :P23:37
ArSaaol_ wasn't there already?23:37
aol_qwerty12_N810: cool!23:37
zerojayMaemoscrobbler if you just want stats uploaded.23:38
ArSait's been out for years iirc23:38
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javispedroso, does the keyboard suck xnt?23:38
xnt14_N900I wonder how fast xchat would be ported to maemo5......23:39
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xnt14not yet :P23:39
qwerty12_N810that sentence really needs a comma :)23:39
xnt14javispedro, idk xD23:39
xnt14qwerty12_N810, ;)23:39
* xnt14 is boreed23:39
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ArSai wonder if nokia will ever consider making a cdma maemo device :-\23:41
javispedro2009 and still some people call the N8x0s "phones".23:42
Luke-JrArSa: why would they?23:42
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suihkulokkijavispedro: why not? you can make sip and skype calls with them :)23:43
javispedrodon't confuse them or they'll try to make emergency calls with them23:43
ArSai meant phone23:43
ArSabecause apparently this will work on t-mobile band in usa23:44
xnt14[bored]xnt dials 911 on his n810.......................jk23:44
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ArSawell, it's not t-mobile band, it's normal international band.23:44
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suihkulokkiArSa: cdma is a closed ecosystem.. even if nokia made cdma maemo phone, your operator could refuse to sell it.23:44
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suihkulokkiverizon has for example said they wont sell phones that don't support verizons BREW appstore23:45
Luke-JrArSa: GSM is the normal23:46
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ArSasuihkulokki verizon said they will open the network actually, not sure where you heard that.23:47
ArSanot immediately, obviously, but for LTE definitly23:47
ArSathat's not what you said23:48
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ArSai don't much care if it's closed or not, i want something that doesn't suck on verizon. imho nokia is not making enough effort.23:52
ArSai mean look at this shit, click on "nokia"23:52
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Pavlovdo do do23:55
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