| nedko | i'm not a pda, i need phone :) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| Gadgetoid | Weird my N810 doesn't seem to want to satisfy dependencies automagically | 00:07 |
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| nedko | what is the deal with pda not needing phones? | 00:08 |
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| nedko | i cant imagine why one needs pda but does not need phone | 00:08 |
| Gadgetoid | One has enough phones ;) | 00:09 |
| nedko | maybe some ppl prefer to have separate devices? | 00:09 |
| lardman|home | it's about portability I guess | 00:09 |
| nedko | carry two devices with them | 00:09 |
| javispedro | definite proof of the average cultural level in slashdot. no two posts share the same "theory" explaining the 4GiB limit in 32bit windows, and indeed only one of all the posts is right (and tfa, but even then he had to disassemble the kernel when its completely explained even in wikipedia) | 00:09 |
| johnsq | nedko: three | 00:09 |
| javispedro | </rant> | 00:09 |
| lardman|home | lol | 00:10 |
| slonopotamus | javispedro, 3.5gb, no? | 00:10 |
| javispedro | nedko, some people see no need to be slaves to a carrier, specially when I have free wifi at work, school, and non-free wifi at home. | 00:10 |
| nedko | johnsq: what is the third? | 00:10 |
| javispedro | slonopotamus, depends on system. | 00:11 |
| johnsq | nedko: phone, pda, nds | 00:11 |
| nedko | javispedro: i want both wifi/wimax and gsm+3g | 00:11 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, nds - ? | 00:11 |
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| johnsq | slonopotamus: portable console nitendo DS | 00:11 |
| nedko | nintendo? | 00:11 |
| crashanddie | johnsq: any version of the nintendo ds that's not portable? | 00:12 |
| * slonopotamus has 8gb ram @ work and doesn't care | 00:12 | |
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| nedko | let them be four then, i want camera too :) | 00:12 |
| crashanddie | slonopotamus: e-peen contest much? | 00:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | slonopotamus: I guess you need it, using Java stuff? :) | 00:12 |
| johnsq | nedko: right. | 00:12 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N810: java doesn't require that much | 00:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | True. Knock off a gig and we're nearly there | 00:13 |
| javispedro | vmware is the only "usage pattern" I've found that requires enormous amounts of RAM. | 00:13 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N810: my 2.5 gig laptop will run 3 vms and a java dev environment no sweat :) | 00:13 |
| crashanddie | javispedro: use case? | 00:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | heh | 00:13 |
| javispedro | use case, ok :P | 00:13 |
| crashanddie | :) | 00:13 |
| slonopotamus | qwerty12_N810, java, yep. actually 4 would be enough, but... sometimes i run 3 vms with different IEs | 00:13 |
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| nedko | n900 has two problems, it is not here and it is ugly. i want maemo on a htc dream! | 00:13 |
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| crashanddie | nedko: and you complain the n900 ugly by comparing it to an htc dream? | 00:14 |
| javispedro | nedko, well, you have the source. hope you can get the time. good luck with the port!!! | 00:14 |
| slonopotamus | nedko, no, three. it's kb is even worse than n810 one | 00:14 |
| crashanddie | its | 00:14 |
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| nedko | javispedro: i run too much opernsource projects already :P | 00:14 |
| slonopotamus | yeah, its | 00:14 |
| crashanddie | sorry for being the nazi spazi | 00:14 |
| nedko | crashanddie: yes i do, htc dream looks "right" | 00:15 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I wanna see Mer on this baby: http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesittely/popup.dsp?id=308 | 00:15 |
| nedko | and it has bigger kbd | 00:15 |
| slonopotamus | crashanddie, np | 00:15 |
| crashanddie | nedko: do you own one? | 00:15 |
| nedko | i dont | 00:15 |
| Mek | the n900 keyboard just takes a little time getting used to, but I did found it quite workable... | 00:15 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N810: the sodomite m90? | 00:15 |
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| crashanddie | or somalianite | 00:15 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ja | 00:15 |
| javispedro | well qwerty12_N810, I can help with the icd port for that one ;) | 00:16 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | On the plus side, its keyboard is better spaced than the one on the N900... | 00:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: lol | 00:16 |
| nedko | damn, even eeepc with gsm module will be better! | 00:16 |
| * nedko uses BIG pockets | 00:16 | |
| lardman|home | why will it be better in your opinion? | 00:17 |
| javispedro | then go buy the nokbook, then port maemo to it :P | 00:17 |
| nedko | because it will be a portable pc with gsm capabilities | 00:17 |
| nedko | netbooks have no gsm option :S | 00:17 |
| javispedro | wrong answer. half of this channel considers the n8x0 a pc... | 00:17 |
| lardman|home | indeed, and I think a Porche 911 Turbo will be better than the N900 too, at driving along a road | 00:18 |
| javispedro | nedko, the nokbook does. | 00:18 |
| * nedko googles | 00:18 | |
| javispedro | but if you mean voice, then I don't know. | 00:18 |
| lardman|home | different usage cases | 00:18 |
| nedko | i mean voice, yes | 00:18 |
| * javispedro imagines someone talking to a netbook | 00:19 | |
| nedko | i use two portable things atm, my usb disk (from where i boot my customized os on every computer) and a gsm | 00:19 |
| nedko | javispedro: tip: handset | 00:20 |
| nedko | headset | 00:20 |
| nedko | :] | 00:20 |
| javispedro | bah, a featurephone is cheaper than a btooth handset. | 00:20 |
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| nedko | javispedro: what is this "nokbook" thing? | 00:20 |
| javispedro | http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1336683 | 00:20 |
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| caringi | hi... any news about the n900? | 00:21 |
| javispedro | oh my. 30 pages already in tmo about the nokbook? | 00:21 |
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| nedko | javispedro: i fail to understand what is it | 00:22 |
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| javispedro | a netbook. | 00:22 |
| johnsq | nedko: expensive netbook with gsm/g3 buildin | 00:22 |
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| nedko | how much expensive? | 00:22 |
| crashanddie | btw, any recent dell computer + £20 = laptop with 3g | 00:23 |
| crashanddie | (most dell laptops have the socket for the sim card, you just need to install the 3g module under the keyboard | 00:23 |
| nedko | bah this android thing does not even have ssh built in | 00:24 |
| * nedko wants phone with internet and full screen terminal + ssh | 00:24 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | That would be the N900, but "it's too ugly" | 00:25 |
| johnsq | nedko: n810 + any bluetooth phone | 00:25 |
| slonopotamus | nedko, phone + n810 + gentoo in console mode :D | 00:25 |
| nedko | slonopotamus: in a single device | 00:25 |
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| slonopotamus | + tape | 00:25 |
| johnsq | nedko: some tape | 00:25 |
| nedko | htc dream + external app is also an option | 00:26 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: ^5 | 00:26 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, :D | 00:26 |
| javispedro | time to get all my tired arguments about why a phone and a pda are not the same | 00:26 |
| nedko | in fact if i can boot the os on my usb disk on this device it would be great | 00:26 |
| Gadgetoid | Is it just me, or does Tear not work with download links on Maemo.org? | 00:26 |
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| nedko | javispedro: tell me! | 00:26 |
| javispedro | phone=small enough so that people don't laugh at you when you put it near your ear | 00:27 |
| javispedro | pda=big screen, stylus driven, data input | 00:27 |
| Gadgetoid | javispedro: don't be absurd, "side-talkin" is the pinnacle of cool! | 00:27 |
| * javispedro is reminded of the taco n-gage | 00:28 | |
| * qwerty12_N810 gives Gadgetoid my old, smashed-up N-Gage | 00:28 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | (No, I did not use it for calls) | 00:28 |
| Gadgetoid | Hahaha, I used a newer style N-Gage for quite a while | 00:28 |
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| nedko | javispedro: phone - a small thing that talks bluetooth to the pda, what are your arguments? | 00:29 |
| javispedro | oh, I already have that nedko, is called featurephone. | 00:30 |
| javispedro | and it's very, very cheap. | 00:30 |
| nedko | like zero? | 00:30 |
| javispedro | ironically, moving the gsm radio to the smaller device (the featurephone) results in a much cheaper device set. | 00:30 |
| nedko | :D | 00:30 |
| javispedro | than having the gsm radio in the bigger one. | 00:31 |
| javispedro | ah, the wonders of the modern day. | 00:31 |
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| nedko | htc dream is ok, android is acceptable, there is a ssh app for android, i can eventually hack maemo in | 00:32 |
| javispedro | good luck :) | 00:33 |
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| nedko | i still dont get why n900 has so small kbd | 00:33 |
| nedko | they need lot of surface between display and the rest or what? | 00:34 |
| javispedro | I guess that's the reason the htc dream has that "piece of plastic" with the buttons on the side. | 00:35 |
| javispedro | (which I consider ugly, btw) | 00:35 |
| nedko | it is much prettier than a mutilated keyboard | 00:36 |
| nedko | also it is available when you use the device in "phone mode" | 00:36 |
| javispedro | it makes typing harder too. | 00:36 |
| nedko | good point | 00:37 |
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| divide_by_zero | I've heard terrible things about the N97 keyboard. Is the N900 similar? | 00:38 |
| lardman|home | it's not been released yet.... | 00:39 |
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| pupnik_ | is size of n810 keys perfect for you? | 00:42 |
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| pupnik_ | hope the text input makes ppl happy | 00:44 |
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| nedko | if it is not a phone too, size of keys does not matter | 00:47 |
| derf | It's not the size of the N810 keys that's the problem, it's that it takes like 18lbs of force to push one down. | 00:47 |
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| nedko | it is not a phone | 00:48 |
| nedko | major obstacle :) | 00:48 |
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| pupnik_ | maybe a bit less force | 00:49 |
| mavhc | can't press the keys with fingernail, have to use pad of finger | 00:50 |
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| nedko | or touchscreen | 00:50 |
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| mavhc | it is stupid when you can type quicker with the stylus | 00:53 |
| nedko | right | 00:55 |
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| vladovg | hi | 01:08 |
| vladovg | :) | 01:08 |
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| vladovg | firs i won to poligaise for my bad english | 01:09 |
| vladovg | kan ani one help mi with n810 | 01:09 |
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| vladovg | ay have some kustons | 01:09 |
| vladovg | :) | 01:09 |
| vladovg | and bad english | 01:10 |
| lardman|home | just ask | 01:10 |
| gomiam | vladovg: XDDDD | 01:10 |
| vladovg | :D | 01:10 |
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| vladovg | gomiam | 01:11 |
| vladovg | :) | 01:11 |
| vladovg | its bad ay know | 01:11 |
| vladovg | haha | 01:11 |
| javispedro | what is the question? | 01:12 |
| vladovg | firs ay am from bulgaria | 01:13 |
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| nedko | vladovg: i az sym ot tam :) | 01:15 |
| javispedro | fine. what's your problem with your n810? | 01:15 |
| vladovg | off | 01:17 |
| vladovg | strasna izlagaciq | 01:17 |
| vladovg | sam s toq angliiski | 01:17 |
| vladovg | kato se stigne do pisane | 01:17 |
| pupnik_ | start, start, start, start? | 01:17 |
| andre__ | vladovg, please speak english. | 01:17 |
| nedko | vladovg: pitaj kakwoto imash da pitash, na anglijski | 01:18 |
| vladovg | sram | 01:18 |
| pupnik_ | hheeh | 01:18 |
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| lardman|home | hang on | 01:19 |
| lardman|home | I've been having a conversation of sorts | 01:19 |
| vladovg | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=119080&postcount=12 | 01:19 |
| lardman|home | two options, either mount the internal cards on the PC using mass-storage (which should just happen when you plug the cable into a PC) | 01:19 |
| lardman|home | or install ssh on the N810, and then use SFTP/SCP on the PC to transfer files | 01:20 |
| vladovg | how to kopi Otg and Host | 01:20 |
| lardman|home | which directory are the files in that you want to copy? | 01:20 |
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| vladovg | usr/share/applications/hildon | 01:21 |
| lardman|home | ok, so you have to do it in two steps | 01:21 |
| vladovg | ai hawe root premision in the cosole | 01:21 |
| lardman|home | first step is to copy (using the terminal application, or something like gpe-filemanager) to the SD card, then mount that on the PC and copy across from there | 01:22 |
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| vladovg | but du nat now how to du it wit | 01:22 |
| lardman|home | anyone have a better way? | 01:22 |
| lardman|home | with the terminal? | 01:22 |
| lardman|home | you don't know how to use the terminal? | 01:22 |
| vladovg | ay now how to use it | 01:23 |
| lardman|home | ok | 01:23 |
| javispedro | i think using the sd card would be easiest, everything else requires extra setup (sshd, etc.) | 01:23 |
| lardman|home | yep | 01:23 |
| vladovg | ai haw them in the SD | 01:23 |
| vladovg | ay have emelFM2 | 01:24 |
| lardman|home | ok | 01:24 |
| vladovg | copiet the Otg.sh and Host.sh | 01:24 |
| vladovg | with no problems | 01:24 |
| vladovg | but the host.desktop and otg.desktop | 01:25 |
| vladovg | ar in usr/share/applications/hildon | 01:25 |
| vladovg | an file menadjer seis thet ai dont have premision | 01:25 |
| lardman|home | filemanager doesn't run as root | 01:25 |
| vladovg | its a wei to meik it using the emelFM2 as root | 01:26 |
| lardman|home | you might be able to get root in a term, then try starting that app | 01:26 |
| lardman|home | but you may as well just use "cp" and be done with it | 01:26 |
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| vladovg | http://wardenclyffetower.com/MaemoFiles/emelfm2/EmelInfo.htm | 01:27 |
| vladovg | How to run emelfm2 always with root permissions : | 01:27 |
| vladovg | Edit (as root) the /etc/sudoers file and add : | 01:27 |
| vladovg | user ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL (if you want user 'user' to sudo anything) -or- | 01:27 |
| vladovg | user ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/emelfm2 (if you just want 'user' to sudo emelfm2) | 01:27 |
| vladovg | Then edit (as root), the /usr/share/applications/hildon/emelfm2.desktop and set the exec line to read : | 01:27 |
| vladovg | Exec=sudo /usr/bin/emelfm2 | 01:27 |
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| vladovg | and ay dont know how to du dis | 01:28 |
| vladovg | from consol | 01:28 |
| lardman|home | to do this, you need to use "vi" | 01:28 |
| vladovg | vi ? | 01:28 |
| lardman|home | it's a command line text editor | 01:29 |
| javispedro | (I guess it would be better to just install root and then do rootsh emelfm2?) | 01:29 |
| lardman|home | the commands are complicated, you'll have to Google for them in your language | 01:29 |
| lardman|home | javispedro: does that work? | 01:29 |
| javispedro | well, I don't know, but I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't... | 01:29 |
| vladovg | ai hew instalet root and ay am geting in root shel with sudo gainroot | 01:30 |
| vladovg | in console | 01:30 |
| lardman|home | read about vi | 01:30 |
| lardman|home | or try javispedro's suggestion | 01:30 |
| vladovg | ok | 01:30 |
| javispedro | vladovg, write "emelfm2" in root shell and Enter. | 01:30 |
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| lardman|home | but really, it will be easier to just copy these two files using "cp" if that's all you need to do | 01:31 |
| vladovg | ay just won to start Host mode | 01:31 |
| lardman|home | that you can do with an applet iirc | 01:31 |
| lardman|home | anyone know which one it is off hand? | 01:32 |
| vladovg | ok | 01:32 |
| vladovg | kan any one ken sow mi how to du it step bay step | 01:32 |
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| vladovg | if its not tu impudently | 01:33 |
| lardman|home | hang on a moment | 01:33 |
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| lardman|home | usb-otg-plugin | 01:36 |
| lardman|home | does that sound familiar to anyone? | 01:36 |
| Gadgetoid | Hmm, I've farked apt! | 01:36 |
| Gadgetoid | Thinks I don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives even after purging it | 01:36 |
| lardman|home | vladovg: try installing usb-otg-plugin from the Application Manager | 01:36 |
| vladovg | ok | 01:37 |
| lardman|home | it will add a new icon up near the battery/wifi/sound ones | 01:38 |
| lcuk2 | Gadgetoid, maybe you actually dont | 01:39 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: I think I do, but I could be wrong, I had to reboot mid wormux install as everything ground to a halt | 01:39 |
| lcuk2 | df | 01:39 |
| lcuk2 | is your friend :) | 01:39 |
| * lcuk2 never thought he would know a linux command off by heart | 01:40 | |
| lardman|home | .....ls | 01:40 |
| lardman|home | :p | 01:40 |
| lardman|home | cd even! | 01:40 |
| lcuk2 | dir ftw | 01:40 |
| Gadgetoid | ps | 01:40 |
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| lardman|home | ls used to work on NT iirc | 01:40 |
| lcuk2 | lardman, i have a script called cdliqbase | 01:40 |
| lcuk2 | that i run from start of a console | 01:40 |
| vladovg | in manager ay have onli usbcontrol applet | 01:40 |
| Gadgetoid | Now apt just seems completely farked, and Application Manager crashes out (presumably due to apt returning an error state) | 01:40 |
| vladovg | and it du nothig | 01:40 |
| lardman|home | vladovg: that might work for you | 01:40 |
| vladovg | after instal is lokeiteth in extras | 01:41 |
| lardman|home | vladovg: you probably need to reboot for it to appear | 01:41 |
| lcuk2 | Gadgetoid, run df | 01:41 |
| vladovg | startet enda du nothing | 01:41 |
| lcuk2 | it tells you amount of space on partitions | 01:41 |
| lardman|home | vladovg: let me install it and have a look | 01:41 |
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| lcuk2 | holy moly! | 01:41 |
| * lcuk2 has a flashing cursor | 01:41 | |
| lcuk2 | small things ;) | 01:41 |
| vladovg | ay have OS2008 43-7 | 01:42 |
| lardman|home | https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/3328/usb-otg-plugin_0.0_armel.deb | 01:42 |
| lardman|home | try that link | 01:42 |
| vladovg | moment | 01:43 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk2: With great power comes great responsibility | 01:43 |
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| lcuk2 | great responsibility comes with great power consumption | 01:44 |
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| Gadgetoid | darn flammit! | 01:45 |
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| jhford | i am finding that when i disconnect from wifi then reconnect back, any tcp sessions i have (like ssh) stay open | 01:47 |
| jhford | is there any way to stop this? | 01:47 |
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| Woolly | sup crackas | 01:48 |
| lardman|home | I actually quite like that feature | 01:48 |
| lardman|home | hi Woolly | 01:48 |
| Gadgetoid | I didn't know the cache was on the tiny, tiny internal memory | 01:48 |
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| javispedro | i guess reducing the interval between keep-alives would help, but don't know to do that in ssh :P | 01:48 |
| Woolly | howdy lardman|home | 01:48 |
| lardman|home | Gadgetoid: hmm, I thought var was in a ramfs? | 01:49 |
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| Gadgetoid | lardman|home: I'm not sure, but wherever it is, it's not big enough :D | 01:49 |
| lardman|home | don't worry, I don't think it is now I think about it | 01:50 |
| vladovg | yeees | 01:50 |
| vladovg | :) | 01:50 |
| lardman|home | well you could symlink it to the card | 01:50 |
| lardman|home | vladovg: works? | 01:50 |
| vladovg | yes | 01:50 |
| vladovg | :) | 01:50 |
| lardman|home | good | 01:50 |
| vladovg | greath | 01:50 |
| lcuk2 | Gadgetoid, are you all filled up | 01:50 |
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| Gadgetoid | lardman|home: yeah I was thinking that, the cache anyway | 01:50 |
| vladovg | thenk | 01:50 |
| lardman|home | no problem | 01:50 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: Yeah, I think so | 01:50 |
| vladovg | everyone | 01:51 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: must be some half downloaded cruft gunking it up somewhere | 01:51 |
| lcuk2 | does df say like 99% or 100% on / | 01:51 |
| Woolly | in the jungle, the might jungle | 01:51 |
| lardman|home | the lion sleeps tonight...? | 01:52 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: df is confusing, it's wrapping odly | 01:52 |
| lcuk2 | theres a few good places to get rid of quite a lot of space | 01:54 |
| lardman|home | Gadgetoid: ssh in | 01:54 |
| lcuk2 | translations for things not your country | 01:54 |
| lcuk2 | themes | 01:54 |
| lcuk2 | pdf files | 01:54 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: how's the barcode stuff going? | 01:54 |
| lardman|home | that random avi | 01:54 |
| lardman|home | Woolly: slow, been doing other stuff | 01:54 |
| lcuk2 | uninstall prgs and remove their crap from /usr/share if it remains | 01:54 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: ditto | 01:54 |
| lardman|home | Woolly: but still doing a bit now and again, will get there soon enough, couple of weeks I guess unless I suddenly get very inspired and hack at it for more than 15min at a go | 01:55 |
| lcuk2 | lardman|home, how did you know about that random avi, i kept it in /home/user/code/private/h/stuff/new folder/r/hot.avi | 01:55 |
| lcuk2 | just so you wouldnt find ti | 01:55 |
| lcuk2 | it | 01:55 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: you'd think a bit more of that hefty 2gb internal card would be assigned to such functions | 01:56 |
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| Woolly | lardman|home: haha, I'll be able to lend a hand as of a week yesterday. I've got a meeting to prep for Friday next week, but after that, I'm all about the barcodes | 01:56 |
| lcuk2 | Gadgetoid, i feel your pain | 01:56 |
| lardman|home | because you should have named the path like this: /home/user/code/.private/.h/.stuff/.new folder/.r/.hot.avi | 01:56 |
| lcuk2 | i install build-essential on my device | 01:56 |
| lcuk2 | and then all the -dev libraries | 01:56 |
| lcuk2 | for liqbase :) | 01:56 |
| lcuk2 | it is a 2 step operation after a reflash | 01:56 |
| lardman|home | get on with writing your python bindings | 01:56 |
| Gadgetoid | Incidentally I did install liqbase | 01:57 |
| lardman|home | ha! that's what's done the damage! :D | 01:57 |
| lcuk2 | :D | 01:57 |
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| javispedro | python bindings?? hum. with the renderer being done in C it may actually be a good idea :) | 01:58 |
| lcuk2 | yeah tis :) | 01:58 |
| lcuk2 | its not just the renderer - the cells also :) | 01:58 |
| lardman|home | Woolly: you still looking to do your library lookup thing? | 01:59 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: aaaayeman | 01:59 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: how come? | 01:59 |
| lardman|home | I should do some testing of zbar, perhaps this week, if it all works ok will pass it over to you and you can do your lookup stuff with it | 02:00 |
| Woolly | cool beans | 02:00 |
| jhford | what do the r and d flags do on maemo? | 02:00 |
| lardman|home | I'm still porting my C GTK/sqlite code over to handle databases, etc., which is what's taking the time | 02:00 |
| lardman|home | jhford: allow you to set other flags; allow gainroot to be used; make the power-on button more/less sensitive, I forget which | 02:01 |
| lcuk2 | jhford, if you have to ask, they arent for you | 02:01 |
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| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: can't seem to remove anything with apt, either, due to the package that's not correctly installed, ha! | 02:01 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: that's fine. I have python bindings for batoo too, so we could always compare the results to see whether that or zbar works the best | 02:01 |
| jhford | lcuk2: how are you so sure | 02:01 |
| lardman|home | there's a wiki page on it jhford | 02:01 |
| jhford | maybe they do exactly what i need | 02:01 |
| jhford | lardman|home: thanks, i will look for it | 02:01 |
| lardman|home | Woolly: sounds good | 02:01 |
| lardman|home | right, bed time for me | 02:01 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: there's always the possibility for reading directly from the FB at say 5fps, to remove the need for gstreamer | 02:01 |
| GAN800 | Fucking Apple | 02:02 |
| jhford | anyone know why the n810 doesn't terminate tcp sessions correctly | 02:02 |
| Woolly | GAN800: blasphemer! | 02:02 |
| lcuk2 | Gadgetoid, do you still have liqbase instally | 02:02 |
| lcuk2 | installed | 02:02 |
| lardman|home | Woolly: from the FB (framebuffer)? | 02:02 |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 02:02 | |
| lcuk2 | jhford, it was a joke | 02:02 |
| javispedro | GAN800, what have they done this time? | 02:02 |
| GAN800 | Don't give me a line about having to pay for repairs with your Honda because you didn't buy the extended warranty. | 02:02 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: can't uninstall it | 02:02 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: yeah, that's what I'm doing for my screen capture stuff. I can get about 30fps to ram. | 02:02 |
| lardman|home | Woolly: hmm, interesting | 02:02 |
| lcuk2 | Gadgetoid, ok, head into /usr/share/liqbase/media | 02:02 |
| GAN800 | javispedro, leaky G5. Their repair failed. | 02:03 |
| lcuk2 | there are at least one large single image you can remove :) | 02:03 |
| javispedro | :P | 02:03 |
| lardman|home | Woolly: I'd never looked at doing it that way | 02:03 |
| lcuk2 | about 2mb i think | 02:03 |
| lcuk2 | might give you room to do whatever else you have to do | 02:03 |
| GAN800 | Giving me the runaround the whole time. | 02:03 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: I've ordered a super speedy class 6 SD card for my N800, which I'm going to use the 48Mhz patch on, to see if I can write any faster than 15fps | 02:03 |
| lardman|home | Woolly: is the buffer memory mapped somewhere in kernel space? | 02:03 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: bunch of pngs, sheesh | 02:03 |
| lcuk2 | depends which version you have | 02:03 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: it was considered, but it wasn't necessary. I can read at the refresh rate | 02:04 |
| lardman|home | Woolly: from what though, a /dev file then? | 02:04 |
| lardman|home | jhford: http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode | 02:04 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: /dev/fb yeah. It's in C though. | 02:04 |
| jhford | lardman|home: thanks :) | 02:05 |
| lardman|home | jhford: np | 02:05 |
| * jhford wonders what a watchdog is | 02:05 | |
| lardman|home | Woolly: ah, I was thinking the camera stuff was all hidden away and not exposed for mere mortals | 02:05 |
| javispedro | jhford, how can the n810 terminate tcp sessions correctly if you're disconnecting it from wi-fi the hard way you said? ;) | 02:05 |
| jhford | in the process of shutting down the wifi gracefully it should send termination messages | 02:05 |
| lardman|home | jhford: http://wiki.maemo.org/Troubleshooting_boot_issues | 02:06 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: oh jings, what a nutter I am. I'm capturing frames from the screen, not the camera! woops! | 02:06 |
| javispedro | ah, the soft way then :P | 02:06 |
| lardman|home | hmm, was wondering | 02:06 |
| lardman|home | too late in the evening | 02:06 |
| lardman|home | for me too! | 02:06 |
| lardman|home | and on that note I'm off | 02:06 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: confusion avoided. exactly! | 02:06 |
| Woolly | lardman|home: take it easy :) | 02:06 |
| lcuk2 | nite somin | 02:06 |
| lardman|home | night all | 02:06 |
| lcuk2 | simon | 02:06 |
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| * lcuk2 pounced | 02:06 | |
| javispedro | even tho do ssh sessions between desktop linux gracefully terminate if you just do "ifdown eth0"? | 02:07 |
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| javispedro | cause icd notifies for sure, but ssh is not listening to that kind of notifications | 02:07 |
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| erand | hi addison | 02:10 |
| erand | so how should i set up my device to optimize it as a medical resource | 02:11 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: surely a ln -s to a dir on the mm1 should help me? | 02:11 |
| lcuk2 | which dir | 02:11 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: from /var/cache/apt/archives | 02:12 |
| Woolly | erand: a medical resource? | 02:12 |
| lcuk2 | and are you sure mmc1/mmc2 is MOUNTED at boot time when the folder you shifted it there | 02:12 |
| lcuk2 | /required | 02:12 |
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| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: not so worried about that, I just want it to give me some extra space to do the removals | 02:12 |
| Addison | Hey Woolly, are you interested? | 02:12 |
| lcuk2 | Gadgetoid, im not sure what gets done and when | 02:12 |
| Woolly | Addison: what's the plan? | 02:12 |
| lcuk2 | but theres software updater that might expect things | 02:13 |
| lcuk2 | i would be nervous doing that without knowing the boot order - but you might be ok | 02:13 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: methinks I'll just reflash | 02:13 |
| Addison | Well, I'm currently having a private chat with erand. Any way to do a three way or find a different forum? | 02:13 |
| Woolly | a three way, ooh err | 02:13 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lol | 02:13 |
| Woolly | I'm not sure, what client are you using? | 02:14 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: but cheers for your help! | 02:14 |
| javispedro | /var/cache/apt/archives is not really required | 02:14 |
| javispedro | apt-get clean will purge most of it | 02:14 |
| Addison | We're both using java.freenode.net, Woolly. We're both kind of computer naive. | 02:14 |
| Woolly | Addison: gutter | 02:14 |
| Woolly | Addison: 2 ticks | 02:14 |
| Gadgetoid | javispedro: it's empty, but I've got something else eating up all my space, and it's hiding | 02:14 |
| lcuk2 | Addison, just choose a random chan name #addison_wolly_lovein | 02:14 |
| lcuk2 | and join it | 02:14 |
| Woolly | oooh yeah a lovein | 02:15 |
| javispedro | and how do you know is /var/cache/apt/archives? | 02:15 |
| Woolly | that sounds fun | 02:15 |
| lcuk2 | (not sure if specific chan name is legal | 02:15 |
| lcuk2 | but the idea is the same | 02:15 |
| Woolly | Addison: click on lcuk2's link | 02:15 |
| Gadgetoid | javispedro: it's not, it's just on the same disk | 02:15 |
| lcuk2 | just pick something and all join it | 02:15 |
| Addison | Did you just call me a tick, Wolly? Name calling.... That's real mature there boogerbutt! *lol* | 02:15 |
| Addison | Okay Wolly. | 02:16 |
| Addison | #addison_wolly_lovein | 02:16 |
| pupnik_ | ppppppppppppppplease, addison | 02:16 |
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| lcuk2 | in your client, type "/join #addison_wolly_lovein" | 02:16 |
| Woolly | Addison: 2 ticks = 2 seconds | 02:16 |
| * javispedro imagines the caos that can be created in such an unmoderated channel | 02:17 | |
| lcuk2 | thats not chaose | 02:17 |
| Woolly | oh dear god, i'm about to run out of bats | 02:17 |
| javispedro | chaos! chaos! yes, i know, i need to run a spell checker. | 02:17 |
| * Woolly passes javispedro mavis beacon | 02:18 | |
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| javispedro | if only gnome would allow me to use the en_GB aspell dict while using es_ES locale | 02:18 |
| lcuk2 | damn i thought you gave him bacon | 02:18 |
| Woolly | har | 02:18 |
| Gadgetoid | Ha, the biggest inconvenience following a reflash is repairing my bluetooth keyboard | 02:18 |
| javispedro | damn gtk and their useless spell checker without "change language" option | 02:19 |
| javispedro | ~curse gtk | 02:19 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, gtk ! | 02:19 |
| Gadgetoid | Or just a thousand camels, not sure which would be worse | 02:19 |
| Woolly | i thought that said moist sensitive regions | 02:20 |
| Gadgetoid | Haha | 02:20 |
| Woolly | erand: click #addison_wolly_lovein | 02:21 |
| Gadgetoid | I'm really failing to get the N810s concept of internal memory, a paltry 256mb that gets filled up with applications and cache... or am I talking ball-locks | 02:21 |
| javispedro | (i am just hoping that a gtk guru happens to be here and just tells me "to switch dictionaries in the gnome/gtk spell checker, just press Ctrl+F+F2, then Alt+F17, then repeteadly hit the screen with your head, and your dinner should be served!") | 02:22 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ctrl-Alt-Backspace worked a treat | 02:23 |
| lcuk2 | Gadgetoid, how long have you had device? | 02:23 |
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| javispedro | I curse you, Ubuntu, for disabling the Ctrl+Alt+Backspace killer combo by default. | 02:24 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: A matter of hours :) this one anyway | 02:24 |
| javispedro | Debian, my personal preference, gives you enough rope to hang yourself :D | 02:24 |
| lcuk2 | :) | 02:25 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Debian: The distro for suicidal people | 02:25 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: So I'm quite rusty on my N810 kung-fu, I never remember encountering this before although I did hose the last one into a reboot loop | 02:25 |
| lcuk2 | well, all the apps you have grow and each of them has more stuff needed | 02:25 |
| lcuk2 | and maybe 18 months ago the apps you normally use were much smaller on their own | 02:26 |
| lcuk2 | so maybe, like what i am in process of doing, app developers need to be bitchslapped and told to reduce the footprint of their packages | 02:26 |
| lcuk2 | cos the motherfuskers are getting too bloated | 02:27 |
| lcuk2 | </rant> | 02:27 |
| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: I'd rather have more than 256mb in which to store them! | 02:27 |
| javispedro | ~clone | 02:28 |
| infobot | i heard clone is a clone card - i.e. a worthless, unreliable piece of junk. Is all that extra headache really worth the few dollars you're about to save? | 02:28 |
| lcuk2 | yes of course, but theres feck all that can be done for us owners of n810s | 02:28 |
| javispedro | O.o | 02:28 |
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| lcuk2 | javispedro, normal consumer will not go throughthat trouble | 02:28 |
| lcuk2 | normal user wont | 02:28 |
| javispedro | I didn't either, but then 256MiB is enough for me, | 02:28 |
| lcuk2 | its just enough for me too :) | 02:29 |
| lcuk2 | but i cant install any heavy apps anymore | 02:29 |
| Gadgetoid | In retrospect, I'll not try to install boswars | 02:29 |
| Gadgetoid | Or liqbase | 02:29 |
| javispedro | Gadgetoid, doesn't boswars have a install-to-card option? | 02:29 |
| Gadgetoid | Yes, which I used... I think | 02:29 |
| javispedro | I implemented one of those in openttd just for the sake of 8 MiB ;) | 02:29 |
| lcuk2 | oi! Gadgetoid that wasnt the intention lol | 02:29 |
| lcuk2 | its all the *other* apps :P | 02:30 |
| javispedro | nah, liqbase is the culprit. last time I tried it was, like, 3 GiB or what? | 02:30 |
| Gadgetoid | I wonder if I failed at installing Boswars | 02:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ...that are whorish, like liqbase | 02:30 |
| lcuk2 | nah, hasnt been 3gib for ages now | 02:30 |
| lcuk2 | it comes on 2 dvds | 02:30 |
| lcuk2 | or are they blueray? | 02:31 |
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| javispedro | don't forget the bluray with the sample sketch database | 02:31 |
| Gadgetoid | Well the nokia update utility failed to download the firmware, so here I go hacking at ye olde command line again | 02:31 |
| Gadgetoid | Extra irritating, as I've yet to enable SSH access | 02:31 |
| javispedro | it's the first time I ever see that utility fail | 02:31 |
| javispedro | either way you can still download the image manually and I think the windows flaser will accept it. | 02:32 |
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| lcuk2 | Gadgetoid, liqbase itself is becoming much lighter and the greatest majority of stuff in /media is going - the media that is required there will be per specific app installed | 02:33 |
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| Gadgetoid | lcuk2: why the hell can't apt simply remove the half installed wormux and ignore it | 02:35 |
| lcuk2 | i dunno | 02:35 |
| lcuk2 | did u delete some files and make some space | 02:36 |
| Gadgetoid | It shouldn't need any space to remove something | 02:36 |
| Gadgetoid | I tell it to remove wormux, and it harps on about wanting to install wormux-data | 02:36 |
| lcuk2 | no, but if apt was in the middle of something it has to finish it | 02:36 |
| lcuk2 | give it some space and let it do what it needs | 02:36 |
| Gadgetoid | Hah, I'm trying :D | 02:37 |
| Gadgetoid | It wants about 47mb plus 50mb to expand | 02:37 |
| Gadgetoid | or 50mb archives, 60mb after unpacking | 02:37 |
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| lcuk2 | could be worse lol | 02:38 |
| pupnik_ | wormux is a bit heavy | 02:38 |
| Woolly | bed time for me | 02:38 |
| Woolly | nn all | 02:38 |
| Gadgetoid | I suspect that's why it froze mid install | 02:38 |
| pupnik_ | cu woo-- | 02:38 |
| javispedro | Gadgetoid, if you've filled up / up to a certain point, you won't be able to delete anything at all. Not even a 1 KiB file. | 02:38 |
| Gadgetoid | nn Woolly | 02:38 |
| Gadgetoid | Sheesh javispedro | 02:39 |
| lcuk2 | nite Woolly | 02:39 |
| Woolly | cheerio guys | 02:39 |
| javispedro | nite | 02:39 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | gn | 02:39 |
| lcuk2 | chirpy bunch tonight :P normally miserable buggers when someone says gnite | 02:39 |
| pupnik_ | 1:39 ! Lava lamp time! | 02:39 |
| javispedro | lcuk2, :D | 02:40 |
| qwerty12_N810 | pupnik_: I thought you were gonna come out with something exciting like "LSD trip time!" | 02:40 |
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| b-man16 | ~seen xnt14 | 02:41 |
| infobot | xnt14 <i=60e8885f@gateway/web/freenode/x-hqfjwggtuuuzttla> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 22h 5m 49s ago, saying: 'titanium for maemo?'. | 02:41 |
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| b-man16 | :P | 02:41 |
| Gadgetoid | aha, deleted the wesnoth game dir, found it buried | 02:42 |
| Gadgetoid | apt is going to hate me | 02:42 |
| b-man16 | lol xD | 02:42 |
| pupnik_ | i like deleting things | 02:43 |
| Gadgetoid | apt "Yo, Gaddy, you've been fsckin deletin' mah files again, aintchoo!?" | 02:43 |
| pupnik_ | "i dont think i need that" | 02:43 |
| javispedro | "/vmlinuz? sounds like porn. gone!" | 02:43 |
| pupnik_ | "ooh, *that's* what that's for..." | 02:43 |
| Gadgetoid | I extracted my first cross compiling toolkit over my root fs :) | 02:43 |
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| b-man16 | LOL | 02:44 |
| Gadgetoid | That never booted again, ev er | 02:44 |
| pupnik_ | hheh | 02:44 |
| pupnik_ | oww :) | 02:44 |
| Gadgetoid | Tis only my dev station anyway, or a crappy slow-ass, low res netbook | 02:45 |
| Gadgetoid | Which still has a large portion of its hard disk dedicated to a very dodgy installation of OSX | 02:45 |
| EdLin | Gadgetoid: are you upgrading to snow leopard? Less dodgy. :-) | 02:46 |
| Gadgetoid | EdLin: Indeed, although it might take me a while to chance it on my workstation | 02:47 |
| EdLin | Gadgetoid: you'll also free up 7GB of space, so you'll need less space for it on the HD. | 02:47 |
| javispedro | wow. | 02:48 |
| EdLin | Gadgetoid: they stripped PPC and compressed the framework files. | 02:48 |
| EdLin | among other things | 02:48 |
| Gadgetoid | EdLin: Sexy, I haven't been following it in much depth | 02:48 |
| Gadgetoid | I have a recently bought 13" MBP anyway, so I'll get an upgrade disk for about £7.99 | 02:48 |
| EdLin | they also added some security features already present in Vista and Linux. ;-) | 02:49 |
| EdLin | of course, Vista's craptacular in most other ways. | 02:49 |
| * GeneralAntilles stabs Apple. | 02:49 | |
| Gadgetoid | You mean really irritating pop up dialogue boxes asking me to confirm every single action I perform EdLin? | 02:50 |
| EdLin | Gadgetoid: that's just one problem with Vista. | 02:50 |
| Gadgetoid | The dialogue box that pops up when I try to run downloaded files is annoying enough | 02:50 |
| Gadgetoid | I run Vista at work, it's tragic | 02:51 |
| EdLin | Vista had poor performance as well. At least they took care of most of Vista's problems with Windows 7, but W7 should have been what Vista was in the first place. | 02:51 |
| Gadgetoid | Still no consistent file dialogue boxes, still can't handle more than whatever-the-hell-number-of-window-handles it can handle | 02:51 |
| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 02:52 | |
| EdLin | consistency is not something you'll find in Windows program interfaces. | 02:52 |
| Macer | guess he's not there :) slopotamus left | 02:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Quarantine is the worst. | 02:52 |
| Macer | i still have my gentoo install but i'm working on using mer more | 02:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wish there were a real way to disable it. | 02:52 |
| Macer | want to try to make a theme for it | 02:52 |
| Macer | and edit the menu | 02:52 |
| Macer | although i should just wait for 0.16 | 02:52 |
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| Gadgetoid | I just uninstalled tons of files and it's showing even less free memory than I had before... enigma wrapped in a mystery | 02:53 |
| javispedro | Gadgetoid, reboot. | 02:53 |
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| EdLin | I wish Nokia didn't make the N8x0's sound system closed-source, I use my N810 as a replacement for iPod and that's a real show-stopper for running non-mameo OSs on it for me. | 02:53 |
| Gadgetoid | javispedro: Ahhh the ubiquitous I.T. problem solver | 02:54 |
| Gadgetoid | Goddamnit, application manager still crashes out | 02:54 |
| javispedro | Gadgetoid, if you're sure you're actually deleted the files, that may actually help | 02:54 |
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| Macer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Fluxbox | 02:54 |
| Macer | or not heh | 02:54 |
| Macer | awesome! | 02:54 |
| * Macer does this | 02:54 | |
| Gadgetoid | I'm pretty sure I've completely hosed it :) | 02:54 |
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| Macer | haha | 02:56 |
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| pupnik_ | javispedro, the frameskip is good | 03:03 |
| javispedro | the auto is better on the latest build I gave you | 03:03 |
| pupnik_ | it looks good even when slow because the next frame jumps to the right time oosition | 03:03 |
| javispedro | depends on game I guess :) | 03:03 |
| pupnik_ | so movement isnt so jerky as in other emus | 03:03 |
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| javispedro | yeah, and sound slows down gracefully. | 03:04 |
| pupnik_ | tried scping a large file yet? | 03:04 |
| javispedro | I must admit the original authors have done a great job. | 03:04 |
| javispedro | at the design | 03:04 |
| javispedro | (snes9x) | 03:04 |
| javispedro | pupnik_, to slow down the thing? it already maxes the cpu by itself ;) | 03:05 |
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| pupnik_ | it does€? | 03:05 |
| pupnik_ | brb | 03:05 |
| pupnik_ | oh so late | 03:05 |
| pupnik_ | another time | 03:05 |
| javispedro | yeah, will go to bed soon too | 03:06 |
| neoatpersocon | i have a doubt, the edje_cc exists only on sdk? or has a maemo version to download? :s | 03:06 |
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| javispedro | i'm idly looking at the network play code | 03:06 |
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| pupnik_ | ok one game runs autoskip, 16khz, -y at 63-74% cpu | 03:12 |
| pupnik_ | plenty left for the ssh session in irssi | 03:13 |
| pupnik_ | without lags | 03:13 |
| javispedro | i don't know why it does that... | 03:13 |
| javispedro | other than the autoskip code still being wrong... | 03:14 |
| pupnik_ | heh i kind of like it | 03:14 |
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| MaceN8x0 | hell yeah | 03:14 |
| MaceN8x0 | fluxbox in mer | 03:14 |
| Firebird | hmm, how do you generate that really long string that's supposed to be the app manager icon in the control file? | 03:14 |
| javispedro | pupnik_, and does wonders for esd, since if left without cpu time esd (being user space) suffers. | 03:14 |
| timeless_mbp | EdLin: what part was closed source? | 03:15 |
| timeless_mbp | did you mean media player? | 03:15 |
| pupnik_ | heh hilighting text in xterm uses much cpu | 03:15 |
| timeless_mbp | most people replace that w/ ukmp or canola | 03:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | pupnik_: it's probably poking the x clipboard | 03:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | with left and right mouse pointers | 03:16 |
| pupnik_ | hmmmm how about keyboard based text hilighting in a terminal? | 03:17 |
| lcuk2 | pupnik_, does it take cpu whilst its just sitting there with a selection | 03:17 |
| lcuk2 | or whilst you are moving cursor | 03:17 |
| pupnik_ | why did i never think of it before | 03:17 |
| pupnik_ | no lcuk2 | 03:17 |
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| pupnik_ | javis - i just let the music play :) | 03:18 |
| pupnik_ | 32khz sounds perfectly clear - except that metallic noise sound | 03:19 |
| lcuk2 | pupnik_, it wasnt a yes no lol | 03:19 |
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| MaceN8x0 | wow | 03:21 |
| MaceN8x0 | tear does not agree with fluuxbox | 03:21 |
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| javispedro | pupnik_, maybe port openspc++ or a only-audio emu for that ;) | 03:23 |
| javispedro | lol there's a java snes emu | 03:24 |
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| Firebird | SDL programs run ultra slow on the maemo5 SDK, is this due to the "betaness"/not fully done? | 05:48 |
| Firebird | they're also blurry in addition to being slow :/ | 05:48 |
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| MaceN8x0 | anybody here running fluxbox in mer? | 05:58 |
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| Stskeeps | morning | 09:43 |
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| johnx | morning :) | 09:46 |
| johnx | chosen a more respectable hour to wake up today? :D | 09:46 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:28 |
| |KaE| | Hello | 10:29 |
| Stskeeps | morn jaffa | 10:29 |
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| Andy80 | ih | 11:03 |
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| X-Fade | Yes, talk doesn't respond. | 12:10 |
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| X-Fade | Preemptive response :) | 12:10 |
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| Proteous_ | I RESPONDED!!! | 12:11 |
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| X-Fade | VDVsx: Can I reserve a round-table session slot at the summit? | 12:27 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: I want to organize a round-table for discussing future autobuilder, extras, interfaces options/needs. | 12:28 |
| VDVsx | X-Fade, in the main schedule, or you want one of the BoF/hands on rooms ? | 12:29 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: The smallest room should be enough. I don't expect large crowds. | 12:29 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: And there is a room available that is perfect for round-tables as there is a big table in there ;) | 12:30 |
| VDVsx | X-Fade, ok, fine, should be doable | 12:30 |
| VDVsx | X-Fade, this one: http://www.westergasfabriek.nl/english/engels_zalen_detail.php?detail=453 | 12:32 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Organizers: Ed Bartosh, Alexander Kanevskiy and Niels Breet | 12:32 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Yes. That one. | 12:32 |
| pupnik_ | important topic | 12:33 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: We have that one too, right? | 12:33 |
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| VDVsx | X-Fade, yup | 12:33 |
| VDVsx | X-Fade, ah, I see why you want this room: "furnished as a meeting room with a bar" :P | 12:33 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Well, that is the small thing on the right in the picture. It's not much ;) | 12:33 |
| VDVsx | eheh | 12:34 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Although I can stand on the balcony and shout at the people there ;) | 12:34 |
| X-Fade | Muhahhahaa.. | 12:34 |
| VDVsx | lol | 12:34 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Sunday, track3 11:00 ;) | 12:36 |
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| VDVsx | X-Fade, this room will be much more flexible ;) | 12:37 |
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| X-Fade | VDVsx: Ok, track4 then ;) | 12:38 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Good luck hacking the wiki table.. | 12:38 |
| VDVsx | I've to ping dneary, if he's already back from holidays, we have a lot of things to decide now :( | 12:39 |
| VDVsx | X-Fade, please add a entry here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Submissions | 12:39 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Will do. | 12:39 |
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| X-Fade | VDVsx: Ok, added request. | 12:48 |
| VDVsx | X-Fade, thanks | 12:50 |
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| * timelys sighs | 13:20 | |
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| lardman|home | yay, my discussion karma has reached beyond 70 for the first time in ages! :) | 13:23 |
| X-Fade | lardman|home: A little more than that I hope? | 13:24 |
| lardman|home | yeah, 246 or thereabouts which is nice :) | 13:24 |
| lardman|home | thanks for sorting that out | 13:24 |
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| VDVsx | lardman|home, are you are back to maemo.org front page, ehehe | 13:27 |
| lardman|home | yeah I was just then when I looked, but that might be my cache | 13:27 |
| lardman|home | :) | 13:27 |
| timelys | Is andre around? | 13:30 |
| VDVsx | andre__, ^^ | 13:32 |
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| pupnik_ | wow larmdman is maemo.org member since January 1, 1970 | 13:40 |
| timelys | Sounds good | 13:41 |
| lardman|home | pupnik_: yep, am feeling my age :) | 13:41 |
| pupnik_ | i wore through n810 keyboard | 13:46 |
| pupnik_ | looks kind of cool | 13:46 |
| pupnik_ | or paint coating | 13:47 |
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| pupnik_ | think of all the tech that just goes into durable coating processes | 13:47 |
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| tigert | wow | 14:06 |
| tigert | thats pretty hc | 14:06 |
| tigert | i didnt get that on mine yet | 14:06 |
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| lardman|home | you need to use it on the beach more :) | 14:08 |
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| tigert | definitely :) | 14:15 |
| lardman|home | I hear that palm fronds might also add to the abrasive nature, so make sure it's at least sub-tropical ;) | 14:16 |
| timelys | I wore through my n81's rocker during its first month of use | 14:22 |
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| * RST38h moos evilly and says hello | 14:51 | |
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| qwerty12_N810 | hellmoo | 14:52 |
| RST38h | heya qwerty | 14:52 |
| * timelys grumbles | 14:52 | |
| timelys | My boxes tried to move to a server room | 14:52 |
| timelys | But the room didn't have a dvi display connector | 14:53 |
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| Andy80 | hi all | 14:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | hello | 14:56 |
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| RST38h | Oh shit, some guy wrote a GameBoy Classic emulator in JavaScript | 14:59 |
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| RST38h | Runs at ~10% of the real hw speed on 1.1GHz U7700 with FF3 | 15:00 |
| suihkulokki | url? | 15:00 |
| Myrtti | url or it didn't happen | 15:00 |
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| * RST38h feels bad about giving that url | 15:03 | |
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| jaska | lol | 15:04 |
| RST38h | But let us say we are testing it: http://www.hispashare.com/test/gb/ | 15:04 |
| * suihkulokki is already preparing a bugreport for timelys about "slow js performance on gb emulator" | 15:04 | |
| pupnik_ | hahaha | 15:05 |
| RST38h | suih: I am almost sure Nokia is adding JUST-USE-TEAR bug resolution to bugzilla as we speak | 15:05 |
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| pupnik_ | do any of you have url launching from xterm working? | 15:06 |
| pupnik_ | i hate hilighting urls | 15:06 |
| RST38h | pupnik: qwerty | 15:06 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Also refer to the xterm bug tracker about it | 15:07 |
| pupnik_ | k ty | 15:07 |
| RST38h | pupnik: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4914 | 15:08 |
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| * pupnik_ tries to hilight that :) | 15:11 | |
| pupnik_ | got it on the 7th try (without the "h" from http) | 15:12 |
| RST38h | yea, it never gets the first h | 15:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | irssi on a tablet sounds.. painful :) | 15:12 |
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| * RST38h uses ircii on the tablet | 15:13 | |
| RST38h | it's ok | 15:13 |
| pupnik_ | qw(tab) - it is the xterm - i am in ssh/screen | 15:13 |
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| RST38h | Ehehehe: http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/msft-us-cockup.jpg | 15:13 |
| javispedro | lol photoshop disasters. | 15:14 |
| pupnik_ | making the rounds since yesterday | 15:14 |
| RST38h | The original black guy looks photoshopped as well though | 15:14 |
| RST38h | Or maybe business people have got more flexible necks than the rest of us... | 15:15 |
| pupnik_ | i saw the links appear in three independent chats within a few minutes | 15:15 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | I'm a GNOME whore... give me XChat any day of the week | 15:15 |
| adeus | and the monitor has not cables | 15:15 |
| adeus | and is that a mac on a win ad | 15:15 |
| lcuk | wouldnt be the first time | 15:15 |
| pupnik_ | xchat should streamline common operations | 15:15 |
| adeus | -t | 15:16 |
| RST38h | Ah dont you worry, will be long time until we get XChat for Fremantle =) | 15:16 |
| javispedro | yep, it's on photoshop disasters already: http://photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com/ | 15:16 |
| pupnik_ | i am considering adding dpad+keyboard-based hilighiting to xchat | 15:16 |
| javispedro | (was going to tell you to submit it either way ;) ) | 15:16 |
| pupnik_ | i mean xterm | 15:17 |
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| Andy80 | RST38h, why so long time? | 15:23 |
| RST38h | Andy80: The Fremantle UI is way farther from the standard GTK+ than Diablo UI | 15:24 |
| RST38h | Andy80: So, no more easy porting of gtk+ apps | 15:24 |
| javispedro | RST38h, but we can still have ugly non-integrated direct recompile apps ;) | 15:25 |
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| Andy80 | RST38h, well, I know this but... I really did think someone was already working on it... | 15:25 |
| qwerty12_N810 | It builds (and runs) fine; just wondering who's inclined to make it Fremantle-friendly (a.k.a finger-friendly)... | 15:25 |
| *** ab[out] is now known as ab | 15:26 | |
| * RST38h does not consider the original GTK+/Hildon UI ugly | 15:27 | |
| RST38h | The Fremantle UI has got some BIG design problems | 15:27 |
| andre__ | like? | 15:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | ALERT subjective opinions to follow. | 15:27 |
| Andy80 | RST38h, I don't like it so much if you wanna know, but it's only my own opinion | 15:27 |
| andre__ | every opinion is subjective. "objective" simply does not exist. | 15:28 |
| javispedro | ^^^ that opinion is also subjective. | 15:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Andy80, have you used it? ;) | 15:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think it'd behoove everybody to wait until they've actually used it to pass real judgement. | 15:28 |
| RST38h | GAN: You know perfectly well that it is not a subjective opinion. I can tell you exactly what the problem is and doubt you will argue against it | 15:28 |
| Andy80 | well... I could give you more details on why I don't like and what's wrong, but... as you said, is better to wait | 15:29 |
| Andy80 | the screenshots are quite clear :) | 15:30 |
| derf | Yes, much better to put off dealing with problems, since it always becomes easier the longer you wait and the more entrenched they become. | 15:30 |
| * RST38h also has got some subjective complaits about the Fremantle UI but he has never voiced them here | 15:30 | |
| pupnik_ | how about we attach a dollar donation to each UI suggestion | 15:32 |
| pupnik_ | see what people really value... | 15:32 |
| Andy80 | pupnik_, maybe you mean "GETTING 1$ for each UI suggestion" :D | 15:32 |
| andre__ | scrolling in long lists sucks. apart from that some stuff is quite great (no cancel buttons) that i see myself clicking outside of dialog popups on my desktop computer and wonder why the popup does not go away. | 15:32 |
| pupnik_ | no, paying | 15:32 |
| pupnik_ | if i really want x, i donate 80 euro | 15:33 |
| RST38h | andre: ok, complaint #1 then: the Ok/Cancel buttons in dialogs waste space | 15:33 |
| Andy80 | pupnik_, here in Italy we would say "col ca**o" :D | 15:33 |
| andre__ | RST38h, there are no Cancel buttons. | 15:33 |
| RST38h | andre: Look at the right side of ANY fremantle dialog screenshot | 15:33 |
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| andre__ | but i agree they waste space, yes | 15:33 |
| andre__ | which is not necessarily bad. | 15:33 |
| RST38h | andre: there could just as well be cancel buttons, as the space is wasted anyway | 15:34 |
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| RST38h | andre: Wasting space on the 3.5" display is BAD | 15:34 |
| Andy80 | people are used to see Ok/Cancel in dialogs.... | 15:34 |
| X-Fade | Andy80: People are used to use Windows too ;) | 15:34 |
| wazd | oh, UI speculations, I'm just in time :P | 15:34 |
| Andy80 | it's not easy to understand for normal users | 15:34 |
| andre__ | it's not always about what people expect. sometimes the difference is the interesting stuff. | 15:34 |
| andre__ | Andy80, it is VERY easy after 5minutes of use | 15:34 |
| andre__ | i even start missing the fremantle behaviour on my real computer | 15:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Andy80, actually, I think it may be easier for normal users to understand than thoroughly entrenched users like us. | 15:35 |
| RST38h | andre: and now we come to complaint #2: having to have at least a piece of the background on top wastes precious (for 800x480 display) vertical space | 15:35 |
| pupnik_ | i want video calls displayed as blended-corner transparent overlays on my fully active desktop | 15:35 |
| pupnik_ | who can i bribe? | 15:35 |
| andre__ | RST38h, true... however if the designers don't want a crowded interface, i'm fine with that decision. | 15:36 |
| RST38h | andre: and as a corollary of that, complaint #3: showing just 3-4 filenames in the file open dialog is silly, bordering with masochistic | 15:36 |
| pupnik_ | i need a cg/shader guru | 15:36 |
| RST38h | andre: this has nothing to do with crowded interface. In fact, it makes interface MORE crowded as app developers are forced to squeeze their UI into smaller space | 15:37 |
| wazd | RST38h: portrait mode? :) | 15:37 |
| RST38h | wazd: Remember, portrait mode is not officially supported in Fremantle =) | 15:37 |
| javispedro | well RST38h, the default file open icon in diablo shows a whopping 3 files... ;) | 15:37 |
| javispedro | s/icon/dialog/ | 15:37 |
| infobot | javispedro meant: well RST38h, the default file open dialog in diablo shows a whopping 3 files... ;) | 15:37 |
| Andy80 | GeneralAntilles, anyway I agree with you. It's quite difficoult to judge a UI only basing our feelings on some screenshots, so I think we could just take note and reserve these things when the real product is out | 15:37 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, according to the screenshots it is supported :) | 15:37 |
| RST38h | wazd: Besides in portrait mode you are gonna get a problem with not showing complete filenames, but it is still too far in the future to complain about :) | 15:37 |
| RST38h | wazd: for the phone app only afaik | 15:37 |
| RST38h | wazd: And only because holding n900 horizontally to your ear is a cruel and unusual punishment =) | 15:38 |
| RST38h | javis: Do they expect us to have no more than 3 files per deirectory or what? | 15:39 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: 3rd-party applications are able to request a change of the orientation too | 15:39 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Yes, but we are talking about the base set of Fremantle apps, as shown in screenshots | 15:39 |
| javispedro | RST38h, I don't know, if you had not mentioned it I wouldn't have even noticed it. | 15:39 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Besides, there apparently was a problem with some new widgets not supporting vertical orientation )hopefully fixed) | 15:40 |
| javispedro | lol | 15:40 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: true | 15:40 |
| javispedro | local news network here just run the microsoft black guy photo story | 15:40 |
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| RST38h | Anyway, just wanted to point out that Fremantle UI has got some quite objective problems. There is nothing "subjective" in wasting so much screen estate and not having a usable file dialog | 15:41 |
| Mek | (there is at least one other application in the basic fremantle apps that support orientation changing) | 15:41 |
| RST38h | Mek: Which one? =) | 15:41 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Maybe you don't need a file dialog with tracker integration ;) | 15:41 |
| javispedro | RST38h, let's forward port Diablo to the N900 ;) | 15:42 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Ah, do not start me on tracker again... | 15:42 |
| javispedro | or Bora, fwiw. | 15:42 |
| tbf | Andy80: i can just agree with andre__: the cancel button is not needed. actually i caught myself to adopt fremantle's behaviour on my desktop already | 15:42 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Let us just say that I fully expect a stick thread on talk.maemo.org titled "How to disable Tracker" and going for months to come | 15:42 |
| tbf | Andy80: clicked outside of dialogs and wondered why they didn't close | 15:42 |
| RST38h | s/stick/sticky | 15:42 |
| RST38h | tbf: Ah, it is all fine, except cases when the dialog takes almost the whole screen | 15:43 |
| andre__ | tbf, exactly the same here | 15:43 |
| Andy80 | tbf, so... how do you close it? | 15:43 |
| RST38h | tbf: once you only see a thin little strip of the outside space, clicking it becomes way less intuitive | 15:43 |
| andre__ | Andy80, click on top. | 15:44 |
| andre__ | that's why you cannot use the full size of the screen for popups and dialogs | 15:45 |
| tbf | RST38h: even when the app ignores all UI specs you'll still have about 50 px from the huge status bar | 15:45 |
| Andy80 | andre__, not being able to use the full size for dialogs is the same (or worse) than wasting space puttin Ok/Cancel button :) | 15:45 |
| tbf | RST38h: but actually proper fremantle apps shall leave some gap between dialog and status bar. if you see this rule broken you can file a bug. | 15:45 |
| RST38h | tbf: ah, clicking the title bar still closes the dialog? | 15:46 |
| andre__ | Andy80, design decision. i'm fine with it... | 15:46 |
| andre__ | RST38h, no - there should not be any dialog with their title bar at the very top of the screen | 15:47 |
| tbf | Andy80: guess you just need a device to try it yourself. it really works nicely. obviously a controversial feature, but definitely one of the better ideas of the UI designers ;-) | 15:47 |
| tbf | RST38h: yup | 15:47 |
| andre__ | yupp | 15:47 |
| javispedro | "Nokia to offer ARM-based smartbook in addition to Booklet 3G, say Taiwan makers" | 15:48 |
| tbf | RST38h: uh. dialog titlebar no. statusbar. the statusbar is always visible. | 15:48 |
| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=315557 | 15:49 |
| RST38h | tbf: Ok, so let me see | 15:49 |
| RST38h | tbf: In every dialog, there is 1) status bar; 2) empty space; 3) dialog title bar | 15:49 |
| Andy80 | tbf, yeah, you're right :) | 15:50 |
| RST38h | tbf: And this is done on the already elongated and thus scarce for vertical space 800x480 screen? | 15:50 |
| RST38h | tbf: Am I the only one seeing a problem here? | 15:50 |
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| wazd | the funny thing is that necesarry empty space is a same waste of space like cancel button, but less obvious :) | 15:51 |
| tbf | RST38h: well, for complex UIs HildonStackableWindow was introduced. there you have much space | 15:51 |
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| RST38h | tbf: Ok, so nobody will be using dialogs, people will use stackable windows instead... | 15:51 |
| tbf | wazd: i don't think omission of the cancel button was for saving space | 15:51 |
| tbf | wazd: this "close-by-tapping" outside just seems to be a nice idea to make device usage more snappy... | 15:52 |
| tbf | wazd: and it actually works | 15:52 |
| RST38h | Except for the file dialog where you are stuck with that pompous triple title and 3 filenames underneath... | 15:52 |
| tbf | wazd: but once you have cancel-by-tap-outside as global concept the cancel button becomes redundant | 15:52 |
| RST38h | tbf: Well, the "nice idea" has got some problems on its own, but I do not want to sound subjective pointing them out | 15:52 |
| wazd | tbf: cancel-by-tap-outside has a requirement of descent outside, that's a restriction | 15:53 |
| Andy80 | tbf, and what about the "Ok" button? How can people know if the settings were saved anyway or not? | 15:53 |
| tbf | RST38h: yes, strange that the file dialog only shows 3.5 rows with files. seems someone messed up spacing. | 15:54 |
| RST38h | tbf: Nothing strange there, it is apparently designed for "finger input" | 15:54 |
| tbf | RST38h: AFAIK the layout guide assumes 6 rows of information per dialog. so there should be five file names | 15:54 |
| RST38h | tbf: And without any consideration of fitness to the purpose | 15:54 |
| RST38h | tbf: So, if you have got 120 files in a directory, how long will you scroll through the list that only shows you 6 rows? | 15:55 |
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| X-Fade | RST38h: Isn't the dialog supporting select as you type? | 15:56 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: As in it refines the list based on your input? | 15:56 |
| tbf | RST38h: not very long, as dynamic scrolling considers touch speed and also has some overshoot effect | 15:56 |
| Andy80 | I wanna hope the "Open File" dialog supports filter letting the user enter the text of the filename, just like in Gnome | 15:57 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: So, am I supposed to TYPE just to select a file? | 15:57 |
| * RST38h is now getting suspicious of X-Fade | 15:57 | |
| X-Fade | RST38h: No, you can just scroll. But if you know that it starts with 'RS' then you just type that? | 15:57 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: no. | 15:58 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: first of all, that would mean pulling the keyboard out | 15:58 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: secondly, it is not what I do on the desktop (Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever) | 15:58 |
| tbf | X-Fade: unfortunately that's not implemented :-/ --- well but libhildonfm is LGPL | 15:58 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Well, then change your ways ;) | 15:58 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Thirdly, who told you I remember the first letters of the filename when browsing for it?> | 15:58 |
| X-Fade | tbf: Where did I see it then? select box? | 15:59 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Ah, the usual answer | 15:59 |
| tbf | X-Fade: so you could send patches. guess its author would happyly apply them. | 15:59 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Realistically though, it will most likely end up with people not using Nokia-supplied apps | 15:59 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: I guess you don't use ^R on cli in bash? | 15:59 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Not often, I use tcsh | 16:00 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Or use the awesomebar in FF? | 16:00 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Not using that one as well, it gives me 3-4 second delay now as I start typing | 16:00 |
| X-Fade | This kind of autocompletion helps me a lot. | 16:00 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: CLI autocompletion has nothing to do with file dialogs | 16:00 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: It should just filter on what you type. | 16:01 |
| X-Fade | Scrolling is inefficient anyway. | 16:01 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: When I browse through a list of files in a dialog, I HAVE NO IDEA what to type | 16:01 |
| RST38h | Otherwise, I would type :) | 16:01 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: When I open a file dialog, I usually know what I want to open. | 16:01 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: how many other people do? | 16:02 |
| RST38h | Especially ones not using CLI on daily basis? | 16:02 |
| X-Fade | File dialog != file browser ;) | 16:02 |
| RST38h | Well, in Maemo it is == | 16:02 |
| RST38h | But anyways | 16:02 |
| X-Fade | If I want to open a doc, I know what doc I want. | 16:02 |
| andre__ | X-Fade, at least filemanager itself does not support typing the filename it seems | 16:03 |
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| X-Fade | Not "Hmmm what shall I open today" ;) | 16:03 |
| RST38h | By following your logic, one can always say that the file list is not needed at all, you just need a single string input | 16:03 |
| X-Fade | andre__: Then I must be mistaking it for the select box with filter. | 16:03 |
| RST38h | One way or another, what we see is that Fremantle file dialog is made unusable, in the sense most people assume about file dialogs | 16:04 |
| andre__ | need an app with an "open file" dilaog to test... | 16:04 |
| andre__ | RST38h, people also say this about the GTK+ open file dialog, and about the windows one. i'm fine with it :) | 16:05 |
| RST38h | Refer to Win32, Gtk+, Qt, Motif, and other file dialogs for reference | 16:05 |
| andre__ | oh, i can provide you a long list of many people that say "Gtk file dialog sucks". | 16:05 |
| RST38h | andre: Well, all these share common properties by allowing you to browse files | 16:05 |
| andre__ | all depends on points of view | 16:05 |
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| andre__ | yeah. same for fremantle. | 16:05 |
| RST38h | andre: Yes, you probably CAN say that GTk+ dialog sucks, I even know what possible reasons may be | 16:05 |
| andre__ | hehe | 16:06 |
| RST38h | andre: Not the same for Fremantle | 16:06 |
| RST38h | andre: Presenting the user with a keyhole showing 3 filenames is beyond "sucks", it is unusable for browsing files | 16:06 |
| andre__ | but i see your point. i have an email account with >10000 messages in there. not easy to scroll to the last one. | 16:06 |
| RST38h | Exactly | 16:06 |
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| andre__ | that's why i asked the modest folks at gcds conference what they want to improve. answer was: better search features. | 16:07 |
| andre__ | and sorting | 16:07 |
| lardman|home | bbl | 16:07 |
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| RST38h | andre: this is only because they like their sparql/tracker/whatever project | 16:10 |
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| RST38h | andre: it has nothing to do with what end users would like to be improved in modest | 16:10 |
| andre__ | modest developer crew is very very unrelated to the tracker folks | 16:10 |
| Andy80 | tbf, where can I find libhildon source code? | 16:10 |
| andre__ | if you refer to nokia in general - maybe | 16:10 |
| RST38h | the whole tracker thing is probably not going to be used that often | 16:10 |
| X-Fade | Andy80: https://git.maemo.org/projects/gitweb?p=hildon;a=summary | 16:11 |
| RST38h | anyways, back to the beach etc | 16:11 |
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| Andy80 | X-Fade, thanks | 16:12 |
| derf | The GTK+ file dialog is God-awful, and they seem to make it worse in every version. | 16:13 |
| tbf | Andy80: hildon-fm used to be at https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-fm/ | 16:14 |
| Andy80 | tbf, just checked what I did want to check ;) | 16:15 |
| Jaffa | lizardo: ping | 16:15 |
| lizardo | Jaffa: pong | 16:16 |
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| Jaffa | lizardo: I'm playing with evolution-python (to set contacts' photos from Facebook). I've got the deb built and it's working (I can inspect contacts in the address book) | 16:17 |
| *** padovan[AWAY] is now known as padovan | 16:17 | |
| Jaffa | I've built up a Python string containing the EContactPhoto struct data and I want to do contact.props.photo = data | 16:17 |
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| Jaffa | However `photo' is a GBoxed and won't let me assign a string to it. Any ideas? GBoxed in Python's bindings is abstract (Perl seems to have some convenience methods here to make this possible) | 16:17 |
| lizardo | Jaffa: well, I never used evolution-python , but have you checked if it has any API docs ? so you could get example usage... | 16:19 |
| lizardo | Jaffa: BTW is it already uploaded to freamantle extras-devel ? | 16:19 |
| Jaffa | lizardo: Yes, it's in Fremantle extras-devel (well, it's gone through the builder) | 16:20 |
| Jaffa | lizardo: The auto-generated docs for evolution-python are crap; so my question boils down to: if I have a property on a lightweight wrapper of a C library, where the property is exposed from a GProps as a GBoxed; can I set that without building a GBoxed subclass? | 16:20 |
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| Jaffa | lizardo: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/python-evolution_0.0.4-maemo1/ FWIW | 16:21 |
| Jaffa | API docs (such as they are): http://doc.conduit-project.org/evolution-python/ | 16:22 |
| Jaffa | But this is more of a Python GObject question than an evolution-python one | 16:22 |
| lizardo | Jaffa: that's a really good question :) I've only touched the python-hildon/python-mafw source code so far, and they don't use gboxed types AFAIK... it would be nice to take a look at the generated .c file on the evolution-python build, if you know some Python/C API, it will be easy to know what to pass to it... | 16:23 |
| lizardo | Jaffa: my suggestion is to look at PyGtk: they have plenty of examples of various types (I think including GBoxed ones) | 16:23 |
| Jaffa | lizardo: thanks | 16:24 |
| lizardo | Jaffa: then look at code that uses these gboxed types | 16:24 |
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| Jaffa | lizardo: http://www.daa.com.au/pipermail/pygtk/2006-March/011980.html looks handy | 16:27 |
| Andy80 | Jaffa, welcome to the hell :D | 16:28 |
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| Jaffa | Andy80: any ideas before I start hacking at the source of the Python module? A nice Pythoney way to create a GBoxed would be handy :) | 16:29 |
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| Andy80 | Jaffa, I'm a real newbie in python bindings (lizardo can confirm) I've really no idea at the moment :( | 16:31 |
| Jaffa | Andy80: no probs | 16:35 |
| X-Fade | All of a sudden wondering if the mic of the N900 is in the top or bottom half of the device... | 16:36 |
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| lcuk | X-Fade, mmmm i heard it was on the bottom corner. revenge of side-talkin' remixed for a skype generation :D | 16:40 |
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| * lcuk hasnt even found the mic on the 810 yet | 16:41 | |
| lcuk | i shout into it when im on gtalk and wonder how anyone canhear me | 16:41 |
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| lardman | re | 16:47 |
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| javispedro | the mic is obviously just right to the speakerphone. half the dsp processing power is spend trying to filter the echo. | 16:47 |
| lcuk | javispedro, really? | 16:48 |
| javispedro | no ;P | 16:48 |
| lcuk | i didnt know :) it does better than skype - we almost deafened one of the girls we had on remote link the other day through feedback :$ | 16:48 |
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| lcuk | that was laptop and speakers tho | 16:49 |
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| Jaffa | lizardo: Andy80: A simpler Python/C binding question. How do I register a struct so that it'll be properly mapped? pyg_register_??? | 16:54 |
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| lizardo | Jaffa: sorry, but you need to be more specific :) | 16:54 |
| Andy80 | Jaffa, a structure that you define or an already defined one? | 16:55 |
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| Andy80 | Jaffa, please give a look here and tell me if it can help you http://docs.python.org/extending/newtypes.html | 16:55 |
| Jaffa | Andy80: An already defined structure (in libebook/e-contact.h) which I want to have its elements and properties available (rather than a GBoxed) | 16:55 |
| Jaffa | Andy80: ta | 16:56 |
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| Jaffa | Is there a tutorial on writing Python/C bindings for existing libraries? pyg_register_... doesn't turn up many useful Google results | 16:58 |
| * hanno is wondering about the differences between Maemo, iPhone and Android. Anyone around who knows all of them (from a dev perspective)? | 16:59 | |
| Jaffa | Aha: http://faq.pygtk.org/index.py?req=show&file=faq01.011.htp | 17:00 |
| Jaffa | hanno: What do you want to know? | 17:00 |
| pupnik_ | dev for what also | 17:00 |
| hanno | I understand the iPhone infrastructure: Hardware, SDK, iTunes app shop. | 17:01 |
| hanno | But with Android, is there "a" shop or many shops? | 17:01 |
| hanno | And with Android, does one need to write apps for each hardware, or is one app running on all Android versions? | 17:01 |
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| lcuk | hanno each of them has its own entire code language structure and development processes. i doubt there is anyone around who is relaxed enough and knowledgable enough to be comfortable devving in all 3 yet | 17:01 |
| lcuk | someone needs to do a qt on it ;) | 17:02 |
| * lcuk ponders liqbase for iphone and android | 17:02 | |
| hanno | Yeah, but which should I get? :-) | 17:02 |
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| lcuk | get whichever you want to get | 17:03 |
| lcuk | each has strengths and weaknesses | 17:03 |
| * hanno doesn't develop much, but likes scripting small apps every now and then. | 17:03 | |
| lcuk | then does it matter | 17:03 |
| Jaffa | hanno: There's is an "Android Marketplace". One app runs on all Android devices | 17:03 |
| hanno | Those Archos tablets look very tempting. Pretty close to what Maemo ITT promised to be (at least for me). | 17:03 |
| pupnik_ | then a n810 with decent kbd is great for python / shell etc | 17:03 |
| Jaffa | hanno: Archos has never been very open with its consumer electronics before. | 17:04 |
| lcuk | barring | and TAB | 17:04 |
| pupnik_ | got to myp those true | 17:04 |
| pupnik_ | map | 17:04 |
| lcuk | hanno, if you are happy in the bowels of linux maemo may be better - its the closest to a desktop linux you can get | 17:05 |
| lcuk | and some apps written in qt/gtk work everywhere | 17:05 |
| hanno | Yeah. I owned the 770, the 800 and the 810. But all of them were flawed. I do wonder if Maemo is going anywhere. | 17:05 |
| * hanno is not here to troll, honest. | 17:06 | |
| lcuk | its open source software - maemo can realistically only go as far as the developers behind it. | 17:06 |
| lcuk | then get stuck in and help | 17:06 |
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| hanno | easier said than done, as usual. | 17:07 |
| lcuk | dont mope around, focus on shortcomings and see if you can proactively make a change for the better | 17:07 |
| lcuk | of course | 17:07 |
| hanno | The interesting bits were closed. | 17:07 |
| hanno | and again, I'm more one of those script guys, not someone who likes ripping hardware drivers apart. | 17:07 |
| lcuk | mmm which interesting bits | 17:07 |
| lcuk | you write simple scripts | 17:08 |
| * lcuk vanishes | 17:09 | |
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| lardman | in a puff of smoke no doubt ;) | 17:09 |
| GAN800 | As Maemo now seems to be Nokia's high-end OS, it definitely seems to be going somewhere. | 17:09 |
| GAN800 | Talking about Andriod and iPhone OS if you want open is silly. | 17:10 |
| hanno | GAN800: All three have their closed parts. | 17:10 |
| GAN800 | Anyway, Fremantle and the new OMAP3 devices are significantly more open than previous releases. | 17:10 |
| hanno | deviceS? Is there more than one? | 17:10 |
| GAN800 | hanno, Android and iPhone OS having significantly more than Maemo. | 17:11 |
| GAN800 | Apparently, although none are official yet. | 17:11 |
| Macer | ugh! | 17:11 |
| GAN800 | RX-51, RX-56 and RX-71 at least. | 17:11 |
| Macer | fucking server is acting unstable as hell and i can't figure out why | 17:11 |
| Macer | maybe dust in the cpu heatsinks.. it hasn't been dusted in a while | 17:11 |
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| hanno | RX-51 is the one we know about, right? | 17:12 |
| GAN800 | Of the three, which provides a root shell without having to bypass manufacturer security measures? | 17:12 |
| hanno | Is there a "shop" infrastructure planned for Maemo? | 17:12 |
| GAN800 | The one we have pictures for. | 17:12 |
| hanno | shop = "app shop" | 17:12 |
| GAN800 | RX-56 is, apparently, an N920 due early next year according to Elzar. | 17:12 |
| GAN800 | RX-71 has shown up in the kernel once or twice. | 17:13 |
| Jaffa | hanno: Why do you want a shop? You want to charge or just have a central repository of apps? | 17:13 |
| hanno | Jaffa: Both. | 17:13 |
| hanno | I don't want to charge. I'm talking from a user perspective. | 17:13 |
| timelys | Sorting is mostly a waste of time. Searching is critical | 17:14 |
| Jaffa | hanno: Right, then Maemo has a central app infrastructure, accessed either through http://maemo.org/downloads/ or the Application manager | 17:14 |
| hanno | iPhone's sucess is partially because of a good app shop. (Yes, I know, Apple monopoly, approval process, etc.) | 17:14 |
| javispedro | bah, g_strconcat crashing when trying to concatenate a file name and its extensions IF the file does not exist? x-files episode material. | 17:15 |
| hanno | Jaffa: The app manager didn't always work for 770, 800 or 810. I used to have "can't install" on all three of them. | 17:15 |
| hanno | Hope they worked that out this time. | 17:15 |
| X-Fade | hanno: Yeah 'they' have :D | 17:15 |
| Andy80 | X-Fade, :D | 17:16 |
| hanno | Wonderful. | 17:16 |
| hanno | Sorry about the "they". | 17:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | hanno, that comes down to maintainers more than anything. | 17:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | But you should check out the new QA infrastructure. | 17:17 |
| Jaffa | And the QA process and extras-testing will help | 17:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Extras-testing, etc. | 17:17 |
| X-Fade | hanno: That work is being done by the community. So they == us. | 17:17 |
| timelys | Android applications are a java subset | 17:17 |
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| timelys | Cross java platform, but not entirely compatible with java's baseline | 17:18 |
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| Jaffa | And certainly not in the GUI-layer | 17:18 |
| timelys | General... I'll need help getting out me extras devel | 17:19 |
| Jaffa | (custom toolkit not based on AWT, SWT or Swing) | 17:19 |
| Macer | blah | 17:19 |
| Macer | i have to find out where this damn server is losing it | 17:19 |
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| timelys | Hey, does anyone here have some time to answer some apt questions? | 17:26 |
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| hanno | I'm still somewhat doubtful about Maemo. iPhone has been a success, Android has enough hardware and momentum to stay, yet Maemo is still more or less experimental. | 17:27 |
| timelys | Keep your doubts at home | 17:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | hanno, well, if you want open, Maemo is where it's at. | 17:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | By all appearances, Nokia seems to be banking on Maemo as their new top platform. | 17:29 |
| hanno | Yes, certainly hope so. | 17:30 |
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| ShadowJK | One funny aspect of being more open and unrestricted than android and apple is that they can't "force" developers to put their apps into any central repositories | 17:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Sure, but we can certainly encourage and assist them in doing so. | 17:37 |
| lardman | no, but it makes sense for the devs to do so | 17:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | So far it's worked out pretty well. | 17:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | The key is just making it easier than hosting your own. | 17:37 |
| aol_ | ShadowJK: android does not force any central repositories | 17:37 |
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| lardman | easier + reach a wider audience, though I suppose that's also under the easier banner | 17:38 |
| jeremiah | I am convinced that a good QA process will help on that front too | 17:38 |
| jeremiah | Lots of perl developers install apps from debian instead of CPAN because of debian's qa for example | 17:39 |
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| jeremiah | So I can see a good QA process re-assuring users and pushing devs to move to a central repo | 17:39 |
| ShadowJK | I wouldn't dare install anything from CPAN unless I had a completely separate perl environment somewhere in /opt/perl | 17:39 |
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| jeremiah | ShadowJK: Really? Why not. | 17:40 |
| jeremiah | CPAN has pretty good QA too | 17:40 |
| jeremiah | i.e. CPANTS | 17:40 |
| ShadowJK | It's just begging for conflicts with the distro's versions and package management | 17:40 |
| jeremiah | ShadowJK: Ah, I see. | 17:41 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, I have been down that road. :) | 17:41 |
| ShadowJK | Like having lots of different repos | 17:41 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, a nightmare. | 17:41 |
| javispedro | same with python and every other scripting language now having their own package management system | 17:41 |
| jeremiah | javispedro: Yeah, for real. Ruby has those problems too. :( | 17:42 |
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| jeremiah | I wish we could all just agree on _one_ format. | 17:42 |
| javispedro | as usual. scripting languages evolve until they can hose your system, every ipc program evolves until it can replace /sbin/init and every software grows a mail reader. | 17:42 |
| lcuk | oi! canola-mail is great :p | 17:43 |
| jeremiah | heh | 17:43 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah.. I remember when xchat gained terminal emulator feature. You could run irc in emacs in xchat | 17:44 |
| jeremiah | Why would you want to do that when emacs already has its own chat client? | 17:44 |
| jeremiah | heh | 17:44 |
| * lcuk is glad he broke his own cycle and fragmented liqbase. so i dont have to | 17:44 | |
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| javispedro | wonder when javascript is going to be able to hose your system... oh, it already does. | 17:44 |
| ShadowJK | javascript made me buy a quad core CPU | 17:47 |
| javispedro | not flash? ;) | 17:47 |
| lcuk | this is going to get me fed to the wolves. but are there any visual studio devs around? ive been asked to look at revision control, is VSS the default solution and will i want to hang myself after using git for a while beforehand | 17:47 |
| lardman | ~curse jangly-fangly web pages that bring my dual core to a stand-still | 17:48 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, jangly-fangly web pages that bring my dual core to a stand-still ! | 17:48 |
| derf | lcuk: VSS is really, really awful. | 17:48 |
| lardman | I blame flash + javascript and all those other nasty web 2.0 features | 17:48 |
| lcuk | derf i know | 17:48 |
| javispedro | lcuk, I used VSS 6 for a while. Yes, you will want to hang yourself after the first commit. | 17:48 |
| lcuk | google tells me as much and my memory does too | 17:48 |
| javispedro | I dunno if it's gotten any better | 17:48 |
| javispedro | I remember reading ms rewrote it? | 17:49 |
| lcuk | within top 5 articles i hear its source destruction | 17:49 |
| lcuk | i think even MS gave up | 17:49 |
| lcuk | and made something new | 17:49 |
| lcuk | but for bigger teams | 17:49 |
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| derf | There should be reasonable devstudio integratation for other version control systems. | 17:49 |
| derf | Though I don't know if there's something for git yet. | 17:49 |
| javispedro | $/ I just remember that ugly dialog and their useless locking always | 17:49 |
| ShadowJK | javispedro, not flash. I usually have flash disabled, and even when I enable it, firefox bugs kill flash pretty soonish anyway. | 17:50 |
| javispedro | :D | 17:50 |
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| ShadowJK | firefox also seems to have bugs with launching programs to open files I've downloaded. It does fork(), then both copies of firefox hang :-) | 17:50 |
| Andy80 | hey guys... what do you think about a client for this http://ampache.org/index.php ?! | 17:50 |
| Andy80 | "mampache" :) | 17:51 |
| lcuk | yeah derf, that was my initial thoughts. ill carry on lookin | 17:51 |
| lcuk | ta for clarifying | 17:51 |
| lcuk | and ill do all i can to avoid :D | 17:51 |
| aol_ | lcuk: I have long experience with VS tools and Windows development, and I would never ever touch VSS again | 17:52 |
| aol_ | there are tools that can integrate to Visual Studio as well as Source Safe, but use proper version control system at back end | 17:53 |
| lcuk | thanks AOL_, have you seen connie recently? | 17:53 |
| aol_ | I don't know connie | 17:54 |
| lcuk | http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:wUnX_sxU3iAFwM:http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/05/20/aol_connie.gif | 17:54 |
| lcuk | sure you do | 17:54 |
| aol_ | har har | 17:55 |
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| aol_ | anyway, I'd use tortoiseSVN | 17:57 |
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| lcuk | aol_, it is looking the closest linked to windows, but is there an internal to vs plugin system | 17:59 |
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| * lcuk has tortoise on windows box | 17:59 | |
| lcuk | but its nowhere inside vs | 17:59 |
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| aol_ | hmm, I remember there being Visual SVN or something for thight integration | 18:03 |
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| aol_ | I never preferred to have SVN on my IDE | 18:03 |
| lcuk | well ive got devs who need handholding | 18:05 |
| lcuk | im surprised to say it, but im happy with git and command line | 18:05 |
| aol_ | I guess helping them with version control won't be your worst problem :) | 18:06 |
| nomis | in my experience GUIs tend to get in your way when you want to do version control. | 18:06 |
| aol_ | it's not the harderst thing in this profession :P | 18:06 |
| * lcuk holds his tongue | 18:06 | |
| * nomis had the "pleasure" to work with Starteam. I believe this is the only RCS I've seen that offers a state "unknown" for files in the repository. | 18:07 | |
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| aol_ | nomis: took me a while to get accustomed with GUI SVN after using it commandline for years | 18:08 |
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| rkirti | Giggle/gitk are nice though | 18:11 |
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| Jaffa | TortoiseSVN is the only version control GUI I've liked. | 18:14 |
| Jaffa | And I find it much nicer than dealing with any other VCS on the command line | 18:14 |
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| lcuk | jaffa - i like tortoise on windows, it adds ickle icons onto my icons | 18:19 |
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| lcuk | but svn is geared towards having a custom server configured for it. id have to investigate that | 18:20 |
| lcuk | and i was always nervous about merging | 18:20 |
| lcuk | (after lardman got stomped on when everyone invaded his barcode party) | 18:21 |
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| amit_usual | jaffa : their is something called nautilussvn have you tried that? | 18:31 |
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| Jaffa | amit_usual: Nope, does it work well? | 18:35 |
| andre__ | meh. two many bugs. sigh. | 18:35 |
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| amit_usual | Jaffa: well fairly well , has some bugs though also i think its a bit slow but its better than most other GUI svns I have found | 18:37 |
| amit_usual | Jaffa : http://code.google.com/p/nautilussvn/ | 18:38 |
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| javispedro | garage is slow | 18:42 |
| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=315687 | 18:42 |
| javispedro | ah, sorry, totally unrelated. | 18:43 |
| javispedro | *garage | 18:43 |
| Jaffa | amit_usual: ta | 18:44 |
| javispedro | bah, back to normal, please disregard all of the above :P | 18:44 |
| Jaffa | I *hate* GBoxed and PyGtk's handling of it. It wraps up an arbitrary chunk of data *so let me create one with an arbitrary chunk of data!* | 18:44 |
| lardman | hmm, appears my Nat Geo Red & Blue glasses are the wrong colour to watch Chuck | 18:44 |
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| lardman | will have to buy some boxes of chocolates and work out the right colours | 18:46 |
| till- | think it was some yellow and blue stuff | 18:47 |
| till- | tried two different glases for the episode | 18:47 |
| lardman | amber and blue apparently | 18:47 |
| lardman | strage though, it was the blue lens that let through both images, obviously the wrong shade | 18:48 |
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| lardman | http://www.the3dmarket.com/ never realised there were so many "formats" | 18:48 |
| till- | the effect was not that good, most time the picture is not sharp and doubled | 18:49 |
| lardman | hmm, ah well, I thought suddenly they'd improved it :) | 18:49 |
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| till- | i had to focus behind the picture ... got headache | 18:49 |
| lardman | yeah, I've got a sore left eye from trying with those NatGeo ones and that was only 2min's worth | 18:50 |
| lardman | :) | 18:50 |
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| till- | maybe my glasses hadn't the right colors too | 18:53 |
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| lardman | I guess colour balance on the TV/computer monitor could screw it up too | 18:53 |
| till- | watched it on a crt projector | 18:54 |
| lardman | same thing though | 18:54 |
| till- | not that bright | 18:54 |
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| lardman | more the colours not being right and therefore not being completely blocked out | 18:54 |
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| till- | yeah, could be | 18:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Up in 3D knocked me out | 18:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | I slept for 4 hours after watching that one. | 18:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Be nice if we could get polarized 3D at home. | 18:59 |
| lardman | yeah, needs a projector though doens't it | 18:59 |
| lardman | or indeed a pair | 19:00 |
| lardman | expensive, but cool :) | 19:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or some sort of magical TV. | 19:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Quite | 19:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | The silver screen alone is $$$ | 19:00 |
| lardman | oh, it needs a special screen too? | 19:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, white-washed walls wont work. | 19:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_screen | 19:01 |
| lcuk | sharp have a 3d tv that uses a diffraction grid and dual lcds | 19:01 |
| Luke-Jr | why polarized? | 19:01 |
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| Luke-Jr | as opposed to what lcuk just mentioned ;) | 19:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Are people with OpenOffice presentations with underlined misspellings serious? | 19:02 |
| lcuk | if you sit in the right "zones" infront of it you get perfect 3d | 19:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean, you can't turn off spellcheck for the presentation? | 19:02 |
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| lardman | Luke-Jr: that is polarised I imagine | 19:02 |
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| lardman | lcuk: you have a linky for that? | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | It just sends two different images to each eye. | 19:03 |
| Luke-Jr | lardman: pretty sure "polarised" is being used here to mean dual projectors on a silverscreen | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | No glasses filter. | 19:03 |
| lardman | so how do the eyes see the different images? | 19:03 |
| lcuk2 | just lookin it up now :) | 19:03 |
| lardman | shutters on glasses? | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Luke-Jr, each projector is polarized differently so glasses can filter. . . . | 19:03 |
| lcuk2 | was amazed when i heard/saw | 19:03 |
| lcuk2 | apparantly they have laptops with it too now | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, ever see one of those holograms they put on cheap kids toy packaging? | 19:04 |
| lardman | yep | 19:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | The ones where you move the packaging and the image moves. | 19:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Basically that. | 19:04 |
| lardman | or on credit cards | 19:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er | 19:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not holograms. | 19:04 |
| lcuk2 | http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/device/about/lcd/3d/ | 19:05 |
| lardman | ah yes, I know what you mean | 19:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | What do they call those things? | 19:05 |
| lcuk2 | not english, but pretty picture at the bottom | 19:05 |
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| lardman | arigato | 19:05 |
| lcuk2 | sharp mobius laptops have it http://www.i4u.com/article1902.html | 19:05 |
| lardman | hmm, I guess you have to set how far back you sit then | 19:06 |
| lcuk2 | GeneralAntilles, the bumpy plastic 3 way moving dinosaurs you get in corn flakes boxes :D | 19:06 |
| lcuk2 | i dont think its alterable | 19:06 |
| andre__ | the next person filing a bug gets #5000. any volunteers? :-P | 19:06 |
| lcuk2 | like i said, sitting in the zones | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, right, those. | 19:06 |
| * lardman ponders a bug about no 3D display on the N1000 | 19:07 | |
| lcuk2 | i call them things: cool | 19:07 |
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| Macer | hm | 19:07 |
| Macer | omfg my son is stuck on this fresh beat band crap | 19:07 |
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| Macer | the redhead is kinda hot though | 19:08 |
| lardman | parallax barrier, lenticular lens, something like that | 19:08 |
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| lardman | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenticular_printing | 19:08 |
| Macer | shayna rose | 19:09 |
| Macer | she just made the list of 5 haha | 19:10 |
| Luke-Jr | lardman: you need to set distance regardless of 3D method | 19:11 |
| lardman | Luke-Jr: not with polarised or colour filters | 19:12 |
| lardman | viewing distance this is | 19:12 |
| Luke-Jr | even with those if you want to use it properly ;) | 19:12 |
| Luke-Jr | you need to know the right distance to place the "camera" in the 3D world | 19:13 |
| Luke-Jr | to get the images | 19:13 |
| lcuk2 | polarised 120hz systems with proper hardware synced powered glasses is practically perfect 3d | 19:13 |
| * lcuk2 spits on everyone saying all the p's | 19:13 | |
| lardman | :) | 19:13 |
| lardman | luckily lardman has his coloured glasses on, so can only see the spit on the right side | 19:13 |
| Luke-Jr | lardman: every play ASQ? | 19:14 |
| lardman | never heard of it | 19:14 |
| Luke-Jr | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FKvBzoQeWg | 19:14 |
| lardman | ah, have heard of it, but no | 19:15 |
| Macer | hah | 19:15 |
| Macer | 3d glasses quake huh? | 19:15 |
| lardman | hmm, someone want to port that version to the Nxxx? | 19:15 |
| lardman | would be quite cool | 19:16 |
| Luke-Jr | lardman: requires OpenGL I think | 19:16 |
| Macer | does that actually work? :) | 19:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | 120hz sucks. | 19:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Makes everything look like video | 19:16 |
| lardman | Luke-Jr: should be runnable without though | 19:16 |
| Luke-Jr | lardman: I doubt it? | 19:16 |
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| Luke-Jr | it uses two cameras to get two images.. | 19:17 |
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| Macer | GeneralAntilles: yeah! haha | 19:17 |
| Macer | doesn't it? | 19:17 |
| lardman | it doesn't just alter the render point? | 19:17 |
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| Macer | makes everything look like a soap opera | 19:17 |
| lardman | it will hook into the z-buffer info I imagine | 19:17 |
| Luke-Jr | lardman: you need two render points for 3D | 19:17 |
| Macer | my ex gf bought a 120Hz lcd.. and i kept looking at it because it was awkward | 19:18 |
| lardman | I'll have a look at it later, looks like fun :) | 19:18 |
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| lardman | Luke-Jr: thanks for the link | 19:18 |
| Luke-Jr | lardman: games-fps/anaglyph-stereo-quake in Gentoo ;) | 19:18 |
| lardman | pah, Gentoo shmentoo | 19:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, looks awful. | 19:18 |
| lardman | :) | 19:18 |
| Macer | GeneralAntilles: i know :) | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Making everything looks like video is a stupid feature. | 19:19 |
| Macer | it looks bad | 19:19 |
| lardman | http://www.jfedor.org/red-blue-quake2/ | 19:19 |
| * Luke-Jr makes GeneralAntilles look like a video. | 19:19 | |
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| Luke-Jr | lardman: but that's Quake2, ftl1 | 19:19 |
| Macer | GeneralAntilles: can you disable it? :) | 19:19 |
| Macer | high def stuff might look a little better | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, on the Samsung I tried it on, yes. | 19:20 |
| Macer | like. brays or 1080p mkvs might look pretty good | 19:20 |
| lardman | Luke-Jr: oh, the other was Q1 was it? | 19:20 |
| Macer | but normal movies look like soap operas | 19:20 |
| Luke-Jr | lardman: yes, Q1 is better ;P | 19:20 |
| Macer | i couldn' tstand it | 19:20 |
| Macer | heh | 19:20 |
| lcuk2 | speaking of all this multi dimensions stuff - whos played/seen UT2d | 19:20 |
| lardman | Luke-Jr: better: faster, 3D? | 19:21 |
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| lcuk2 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55yxnCFy8m4 | 19:21 |
| Luke-Jr | lardman: RuneQuake mod | 19:21 |
| lcuk2 | play 2d version of unreal tourny (side scroller - 80s retro!) but using the unreal engine | 19:22 |
| lardman | what's RuneQuake? | 19:22 |
| Luke-Jr | lardman: connect quake.shmack.net | 19:22 |
| lardman | yeah, it's just a board with no info on it | 19:23 |
| Luke-Jr | huh? | 19:23 |
| Luke-Jr | with the game | 19:24 |
| lardman | with what game? | 19:24 |
| lardman | Quake? | 19:24 |
| lardman | I don't have it | 19:24 |
| lardman | or actually I probably do, but no clue where it is now | 19:24 |
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| crashanddie | Hey guys, is there a docs application that supports synchronisation with Google Docs? | 19:46 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: ANSWER ME | 19:47 |
| *** khertan_n810 has joined #maemo | 19:50 | |
| khertan_n810 | Hello ! | 19:51 |
| crashanddie | khertan_n810: are you aware of any notes/document application that synchronizes with Google Docs | 19:51 |
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| khertan_n810 | I m trying to do a datetime picker ... if someone have idea : http://khertan.net/2009/08/a-finger-useable-datetime-picker-on-maemo/ | 19:52 |
| khertan_n810 | hello crashandie ! | 19:52 |
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| khertan_n810 | mNotes can sync text in text format but it s a crappy implementation , and doesn t work very well | 19:53 |
| crashanddie | khertan_n810: how about a list of all the dates of a month, for example, and when you push on something, and stay clicked, it makes the dates in that area bigger | 19:53 |
| khertan_n810 | i didn t know other app that do it | 19:53 |
| wazd | crashanddie: I hink this would help: http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh | 19:54 |
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| crashanddie | wazd: what is it? | 19:54 |
| khertan_n810 | crashanddie: because it s require an other click ... | 19:54 |
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| crashanddie | khertan_n810: no it doesn't | 19:54 |
| crashanddie | khertan_n810: ce que je veux dire, c'est que quand tu cliques, ca ragrandit les boutons dans la zone de ton doigt, une fois que tu laches, ca selectionne celui sur lequel tu avais le doigt... Mais le fait que ca agrandit la zone, te permet de faire une selection plus precise | 19:55 |
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| khertan_n810 | yep ... it s an idea but quite difficult to implement in gtk | 19:56 |
| wazd | khertan_n810: wow, this is everything but finger usable :D | 19:57 |
| khertan_n810 | or at least require that i do a custom widget again :) | 19:57 |
| khertan_n810 | wazd: and horrible | 19:57 |
| khertan_n810 | crashanddie: the main problem with custom widget is that it s require a lot of cpu ressource | 19:58 |
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| crashanddie | khertan_n810: not necessarily... How CPU-intensive is it to change the size of a button? | 19:59 |
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| lcuk2 | khertan_n810, !!! great that you are trying ideas | 20:00 |
| * lcuk2 loves experimentation :) | 20:00 | |
| lcuk2 | i think wazd is right though, thats one hell of a scary form lol | 20:00 |
| khertan_n810 | lcuk2: i do experimentation since i ve start the developpment of maemo app | 20:01 |
| lcuk2 | khertan_n810, custom widgets require lots of human brain resource | 20:01 |
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| khertan_n810 | yep this is the other problem | 20:01 |
| lcuk2 | yeah | 20:01 |
| lcuk2 | but a custom widget today becomes a standard one tomorrow | 20:01 |
| khertan_n810 | lcuk2 the custom day/week/view in mpim is a custom widget :) | 20:02 |
| lcuk2 | yeah i know, ive seen you building it - and its lookin sweet | 20:02 |
| khertan_n810 | crashanddie: the problem of resizing button will be to detect where click happen | 20:03 |
| lcuk2 | crashanddie, gtk cpu layouts are fudging expensive | 20:03 |
| khertan_n810 | before gtk manage the event | 20:03 |
| crashanddie | lcuk2: then you use the idea | 20:04 |
| khertan_n810 | :) | 20:04 |
| lcuk2 | i already did :P | 20:04 |
| lcuk2 | i had sketches resizing underneath in classic | 20:04 |
| lcuk2 | and the whole grid was dynamic | 20:04 |
| crashanddie | khertan_n810: I think you just got liq'd. You need to use a new set of tools, use liqbase | 20:05 |
| lcuk2 | crashanddie, khertan and i have discussed extensively about this | 20:05 |
| khertan_n810 | there is still not python binding | 20:05 |
| khertan_n810 | :) | 20:05 |
| lcuk2 | hes got his tools for now and creature comforts inside python | 20:05 |
| crashanddie | khertan_n810: then how about you use a real language? | 20:05 |
| lcuk2 | the time will come one day though :) | 20:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, WHAT? | 20:06 |
| khertan_n810 | crashanddie: when it will be easier to do onboard dev with as in python | 20:06 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: nevermind | 20:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | H'ok | 20:07 |
| lcuk2 | khertan_n810, apt-get install build-essential | 20:07 |
| lcuk2 | and then a few -dev libs | 20:07 |
| * GeneralAntilles boots to XP. | 20:07 | |
| lcuk2 | thats all i use for on device | 20:07 |
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| lcuk2 | i still use the tablet, but not for coding | 20:07 |
| crashanddie | khertan_n810: t'es un bon codeur et t'as des idées géniales, en plus de ca t'as suffisamment de motivation et de temps libre pour faire une différence. Utilises un vrai language :P | 20:08 |
| lcuk2 | err editing | 20:08 |
| lcuk2 | crashanddie, we speek english hear | 20:08 |
| khertan_n810 | crashnddie: python est un vrai language ... contrairement au c ! | 20:08 |
| khertan_n810 | c est du vrai objet ! | 20:08 |
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| * mgedmin galėtų pakalbėti lietuviškai, kad visiem būtų įdomiau | 20:09 | |
| khertan_n810 | mais merci pour le bon codeur ca fait plaisir | 20:09 |
| lcuk2 | ahhh my babelfish is failing :D lol | 20:10 |
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| lcuk2 | hiya mgedmin \o | 20:11 |
| mgedmin | hi, lcuk2 | 20:11 |
| mgedmin | where's lcuk1? I didn't even know you had a twin | 20:11 |
| khertan_n810 | and the most important things is that i m using python and pygtk to easily port mPIM to Windows and Linux :) | 20:11 |
| mgedmin | which one of you is evil? | 20:11 |
| lcuk2 | the one with the tash | 20:11 |
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| *** lcuk2 is now known as lcuk | 20:11 | |
| khertan_n810 | the both ... | 20:11 |
| lcuk | :O | 20:11 |
| lcuk | i are not evil | 20:11 |
| pupnik_ | khertan .. mPIM? | 20:11 |
| crashanddie | khertan_n810: on s'en fout de l'objet. Ce qui compte c'est la vitesse d'exécution, pas nécessairement le reste. C'est ca que je trouve dommage, les gens veulent coder dans un truc qu'ils trouvent facile sans faire d'effort sur le résultat final (est-ce que c'est utilisable ou pas) | 20:12 |
| lcuk | pupnik_, at a guess, its khertans pim package :) | 20:12 |
| khertan_n810 | lcuk and lcuk2 are more like Pinkie and The Brain | 20:12 |
| lcuk | :O | 20:12 |
| khertan_n810 | not really twin _) | 20:12 |
| Myrtti | pink? | 20:12 |
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| lcuk | i am like popeye, mild mannered coder normally, then when i eat bacon i turn into supercoder | 20:13 |
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| khertan_n810 | Myrtti it s a cartoon movie :) | 20:13 |
| Myrtti | khertan_n810: I know | 20:13 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: and look like a pervert who's done prison, but had to default to adverts for cleaning products? | 20:13 |
| Myrtti | I prefer cow and chicken | 20:13 |
| khertan_n810 | crashanddie, l interet de l objet n est pas dans la facilité mais généralement dans la qualité de la gestion des erreurs | 20:14 |
| lcuk | look crashanddie you were happy i solg you a sham-wow - how else would you have mopped up all the blood | 20:14 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Using your tongue? | 20:14 |
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| khertan_n810 | pupnik_ > mPIM > http://khertan.net/2009/08/a-quick-overview-of-the-current-developpment-of-mpim/ | 20:15 |
| khertan_n810 | it s a sort of mNotes, mTodos, and mCalendar, but better, without the error i made when i start mCalendar | 20:17 |
| khertan_n810 | developpment | 20:17 |
| khertan_n810 | rewrite from scratch | 20:17 |
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| khertan_n810 | hum train is on departure ... | 20:19 |
| khertan_n810 | i ll probably lost the connection | 20:19 |
| khertan_n810 | ping ? | 20:20 |
| lcuk | "solar flares are increasing, gonna lose communications any moment now" | 20:20 |
| lcuk | pong | 20:20 |
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| khertan_n810 | lol | 20:21 |
| khertan_n810 | i ve already lost my satellites antenna at home ... :) | 20:22 |
| khertan_n810 | it s enought | 20:22 |
| andre__ | how i can i find out from which repository i have installed a package? any nice apt-get / dpkg commands? | 20:22 |
| lcuk | khertan_n810, oh no | 20:22 |
| lcuk | did your girlfriend get you onto the roof to fix it | 20:22 |
| lcuk | i know mine would if i had satellite | 20:22 |
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| pupnik_ | just got khertan's page up | 20:23 |
| khertan_n810 | lcuk i prefer not to climb on the roof ... | 20:23 |
| pupnik_ | 4 minutes to open a url from xterm | 20:23 |
| lcuk | yes, but if girlfriends TELL you to do something, saying no is rarely an option | 20:23 |
| khertan_n810 | i ve ask to a company ... | 20:24 |
| lcuk | heh | 20:24 |
| andre__ | ah, found it | 20:24 |
| lcuk | hiya andre__ who got #5000 | 20:24 |
| lcuk | and do they specially get it fixed cos its a cool get | 20:24 |
| khertan_n810 | yep i know ... but last time i was on the roof i meet suddently the flor | 20:24 |
| khertan_n810 | floor | 20:24 |
| khertan_n810 | in less than 1 seconds | 20:24 |
| lcuk | :O wikes | 20:24 |
| lcuk | yikes even | 20:24 |
| andre__ | lcuk, Mikko Vartiainen | 20:24 |
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| lcuk | was it a vital one | 20:25 |
| lcuk | or just something silly | 20:25 |
| pupnik_ | if girlfriends ASK you to so something, it is usually to set you up to be the bad guy in their next argument with you | 20:25 |
| lcuk | like most important gets are | 20:25 |
| khertan_n810 | so ... i prefer paid for that someone else climb on my roof | 20:25 |
| pupnik_ | yes khertan | 20:25 |
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| lcuk | i prefer to pay someone too | 20:25 |
| khertan_n810 | but yes you are true about girlfriends | 20:25 |
| lcuk | their neck, not mine | 20:25 |
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| khertan_n810 | i girlfriend without tv is a bit like us without a nit :) | 20:26 |
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| lcuk | i can cope without nits | 20:26 |
| lcuk | i would just code in vb and target the new nokia x86 windows machine instead | 20:27 |
| lcuk | i like the idea of a 3g built in thing. tho think side talking will be a bit extreme with a 10" laptop | 20:27 |
| pupnik_ | mm | 20:28 |
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| lcuk | balls! | 20:29 |
| pupnik_ | lcuk, isnt there harm in using a 30 year-old cpu architecture ? | 20:30 |
| lcuk | why though? | 20:31 |
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| lcuk | realisticially, theres a codebase | 20:31 |
| lcuk | and compatability | 20:31 |
| naterhk | ouch | 20:31 |
| pupnik_ | mhm | 20:31 |
| pupnik_ | how bout wasted electricity | 20:31 |
| lcuk | and running an app that was writting in 1981 is fudging cool | 20:32 |
| lcuk | meh, most folks with laptops know the score | 20:32 |
| naterhk | i hope n900 will not rely on a every time available connection | 20:32 |
| lcuk | i know we have handhelds, but really | 20:32 |
| lcuk | naterhk, i hope no app ever relies on an every time available connection | 20:32 |
| lcuk | but i welcome the prospect of having 24/7 always on connectivity wherever i am | 20:33 |
| naterhk | ouch .. why does when the cpu is over used text input are in always in invert order | 20:33 |
| lcuk | i dont have access to wifi most of the places i go | 20:33 |
| *** naterhk is now known as Khertan | 20:33 | |
| Khertan | yep me to ... specially in train | 20:33 |
| lcuk | mmm | 20:33 |
| lcuk | gtk not movign the cursor until after keys input | 20:34 |
| lcuk | hiya :) i just commented on your blog | 20:34 |
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| Khertan | hum ... it could be the reason | 20:34 |
| Khertan | oh my first comment :) | 20:34 |
| lcuk | hopefully not your last | 20:34 |
| lcuk | theres a neat looking date picked in the fremantle toolkit | 20:35 |
| Khertan | only time know ... | 20:35 |
| lcuk | its gtk and standard | 20:35 |
| lcuk | yeah | 20:35 |
| lcuk | do you have desktop machine connected most of the time | 20:35 |
| lcuk | and iwth internet access | 20:35 |
| Khertan | and the death ... | 20:35 |
| lcuk | heh | 20:35 |
| Khertan | (reference to the disc world) | 20:35 |
| lcuk | im just thinking, i got to see fremantle beta on my 810 :) | 20:36 |
| Khertan | most of the time | 20:36 |
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| Khertan | but most of the time i didn t use it | 20:36 |
| lcuk | qwerty very kindly shared a vnc session from his computer in london to my tablet in macnhester | 20:36 |
| Khertan | fremantle beta on your nit ? | 20:36 |
| Khertan | lol | 20:37 |
| lcuk | so i was clicking on the buttons and menus and things on my nit :) | 20:37 |
| lcuk | it was qole who came up with the inspired idea | 20:37 |
| Khertan | lol | 20:37 |
| lcuk | perhaps you could try it yourself :) | 20:37 |
| Khertan | about that it was the first goal of mer ? | 20:38 |
| lcuk | !!! what if nokia or someone with lots of VM space offered people a playtest like that? | 20:38 |
| lcuk | as a serious thing | 20:38 |
| lcuk | to save folks running scratchbox etc | 20:38 |
| Khertan | to backport fremantle on n810/n800 | 20:38 |
| lcuk | to let them experience it | 20:38 |
| lcuk | thats a longer term | 20:38 |
| Khertan | lol it s an idea | 20:38 |
| lcuk | this could be done today | 20:38 |
| lcuk | now | 20:38 |
| lcuk | :) just a quick thing "playtest fremantle" | 20:39 |
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| wazd | Khertan: http://i008.radikal.ru/0908/34/e14677478901.png | 20:39 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: how would you provide screen? | 20:39 |
| Khertan | with vnc ... not really useable with a mobile phone connection | 20:39 |
| lcuk | use a small install in extras which adds vncclient | 20:39 |
| lcuk | Khertan, but to get people over initial things | 20:39 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: vnc is dog slow, especially if connecting to an underpowered VM | 20:39 |
| lcuk | it would be worth it for the buzz it would create | 20:39 |
| lcuk | i used it from qwertys machine | 20:39 |
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| lcuk | vnc isnt heavy | 20:40 |
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| lcuk | :) tis just a suggestion | 20:40 |
| lcuk | brb tea | 20:40 |
| Khertan | wazd : is it something actually in fremantle ? is that a datetime selector ? | 20:41 |
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| wazd | Khertan: nop, just a suggestion :) | 20:41 |
| Khertan | ah ... but yes it s a idea ... | 20:42 |
| wazd | Khertan: Fremanle has "not so cool" slides with numbers :) | 20:42 |
| wazd | Khertan: simple kinetic lists | 20:42 |
| wazd | Khertan: in other words - boring :) | 20:42 |
| Khertan | don t know if it useable with finger on nit screen (lack of precision) | 20:43 |
| Khertan | but i should try to implement it just to see | 20:43 |
| andre__ | mikkov_, around? | 20:43 |
| wazd | Khertan: well, move hours, move minutes, move seconds arrow to fine tune minutes | 20:43 |
| Khertan | i didnt like kinetic at leat for time / date selection | 20:43 |
| Khertan | at leat i think kinectic should just be use for scrolling a page | 20:44 |
| wazd | Khertan: I've drawn hours arrow slightly wrong, it should be a little more towards 1 | 20:44 |
| Khertan | move will be difficult i think ... but maybe with a 5 minutes step | 20:44 |
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| andre__ | mikkov_, what exactly is the binary name of wormux? seems to not be in the path... | 20:45 |
| wazd | Khertan: yep, hour arrow has hour gradation, minute - 5 minutes gradation and second just makes full circle | 20:45 |
| Khertan | but how to know which hings to move when time is 12:00 ... the minute or hour ? :) | 20:46 |
| qwerty12_N810 | andre__: checked in /usr/games? | 20:46 |
| wazd | Khertan: well, move hour first :) | 20:46 |
| Khertan | yep | 20:46 |
| Khertan | i m just thinking of all case | 20:47 |
| Khertan | but yep ... it s an interesting idea | 20:47 |
| andre__ | qwerty12_N810, argh... good catch. why is this not in path? sigh | 20:47 |
| wazd | Khertan: yep, that's an obvious problem :) | 20:47 |
| qwerty12_N810 | andre__: file a bug :D | 20:47 |
| qwerty12_N810 | (against Maemo :p) | 20:47 |
| andre__ | qwerty12_N810, no, that means that i become self-employed :-P | 20:48 |
| qwerty12_N810 | hehe | 20:48 |
| Khertan | the difficulty is to something finger friendly | 20:48 |
| Khertan | as when you see palm agenda ... they do it nice with only 160x160 pixel of resolution | 20:48 |
| wazd | Khertan: resolution dosn't matter | 20:48 |
| pupnik_ | sometimes less degrees of freedom helps the creative process | 20:49 |
| wazd | Khertan: screen size does | 20:49 |
| Khertan | wazd : true | 20:49 |
| andre__ | Nokia will provide finger friendly date and time widgets in Fremantle. if you have some patience you'll see... :) | 20:49 |
| Khertan | and more the precision of myh finger and stylus | 20:49 |
| wazd | Khertan: resolution allows you to make same things smoother :) | 20:49 |
| qwerty12_N810 | andre__: that's a lame answer. We don't have patience so give us screenshots *now* :p | 20:50 |
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| wazd | andre__: I think they've already shown them | 20:50 |
| Khertan | andre__: yep maybe ... but i m also thinking of user that can t buy a n900 | 20:50 |
| andre__ | hmm, fair point | 20:51 |
| wazd | andre__: http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs_unstable/tutorial/figures/date-button.png ? | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: as finger friendly as their doors? :P | 20:51 |
| Khertan | and if i couldn t get a sponosered price for the n900 ... | 20:51 |
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| Khertan | i wil: wait for nothing :) | 20:51 |
| andre__ | wazd, oh, that one is nice too :) | 20:51 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: snap! :D | 20:51 |
| wazd | andre__: eew :D | 20:51 |
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| wazd | andre__: it's b.o.r.i.n.g ) | 20:51 |
| andre__ | that's l.i.f.e | 20:52 |
| wazd | andre__: user should love just to move clock arrows without any purpose, just because it's cool :) | 20:52 |
| Khertan | and it s just date not date and time | 20:52 |
| wazd | Khertan: well, time acts the same | 20:52 |
| Khertan | yep but look like it s require two screen | 20:53 |
| wazd | Khertan: http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs_unstable/tutorial/figures/time-button.png | 20:53 |
| Khertan | so ... if i count well ... one click to show the selector 3 to make the selection, an other one to validate and 1+3+1 for the time | 20:54 |
| *** luck has left #maemo | 20:55 | |
| Khertan | far away from the 'if you can't do thing in less than 3 click you should refine the ui' | 20:55 |
| wazd | Khertan: well, if you can't pick the date and time with 3 clicks - you should definitely :) | 20:56 |
| Khertan | lol | 20:56 |
| andre__ | wazd, that's why i got four clocks in this room. i can move them all the time, when not sleeping or working. true that! | 20:57 |
| Khertan | of course it doesn t apply strictly here | 20:57 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 21:05 |
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| slonopotamus | johnsq, hello | 21:06 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: fixed my xserver problem, was my fault. the evdev patch for FN key is two lines. | 21:07 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, care to share? | 21:07 |
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| slonopotamus | johnsq, Macer abandoned gentoo because of Fn problem :) | 21:08 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: i make a patch and post the link. | 21:08 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, just pastebin, i'll add it to overlay | 21:09 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: pastebin is more work than scp | 21:12 |
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| johnsq | slonopotamus: goron.de:~/johns/n810/fn_patch.diff | 21:12 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: http://goron.de:~johns/n810/fn_patch.diff | 21:13 |
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| johnsq | mmm urls are a problem :) | 21:13 |
| slonopotamus | http://goron.de/~johns/n810/fn_patch.diff | 21:13 |
| slonopotamus | :) | 21:13 |
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| johnsq | slonopotamus: xmodmap from mer than FN works. | 21:14 |
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| slonopotamus | xmodmap... how you use it? | 21:14 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: /etc/X11/Xmodmap should be automatic loaded, but haven't tested it. I used ~/.Xmodmap to map the keyboard. FN is an extra modifier. | 21:16 |
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| vasily_pupkin | anybody familar with cmake? | 21:17 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: I looked into evdev, but adding right button emulation seems to be too much work for me. | 21:19 |
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| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, a bit | 21:22 |
| RST38h | EHLO all again | 21:22 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, err... you said you have right click with evtouch | 21:22 |
| vasily_pupkin | i have some problem while running cmake | 21:24 |
| vasily_pupkin | link.txt not created | 21:24 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: yes, it works, but it would be better when the orignal x drivers would support it. | 21:24 |
| vasily_pupkin | at all | 21:24 |
| slonopotamus | link.txt? | 21:24 |
| vasily_pupkin | there are rules for linking | 21:24 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, xf86-input-tslib also has right-click | 21:25 |
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| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, i dunno what's link.txt :/ | 21:28 |
| vasily_pupkin | CMakeFiles/%modulename%.dir/link.txt | 21:29 |
| slonopotamus | that's too internal :) show your CMakeLists.txt? | 21:30 |
| vasily_pupkin | that's not mine | 21:30 |
| vasily_pupkin | opensync :] | 21:31 |
| vasily_pupkin | it's tooooooo big | 21:31 |
| vasily_pupkin | for libsyncml i form link.txt by hands | 21:32 |
| vasily_pupkin | but generally this is bad idea | 21:32 |
| slonopotamus | show what's relevant to your %modulename% | 21:32 |
| vasily_pupkin | avatar@AliSo opensync % avatar@AliSo trunk % cat CMakeLists.txt | grep -i libsyncml | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | PROJECT( libsyncml C ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_VERSION_MAJOR "0" ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_VERSION_MINOR "5" ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_VERSION_PATCH "4" ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_VERSION "${LIBSYNCML_VERSION_MAJOR}.${LIBSYNCML_VERSION_MINOR}.${LIBSYNCML_VERSION_PATCH}" ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_CURRENT 3 ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_REVISION 0 ) | 21:33 |
| slonopotamus | yikes | 21:33 |
| Andy80 | ehm..... | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_AGE 0 ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | MATH( EXPR LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_SOVERSION "${LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_CURRENT} - ${LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_AGE}" ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_VERSION "${LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_SOVERSION}.${LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_AGE}.${LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_REVISION}" ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_LIBRARIES_DIR "${LIB_INSTALL_DIR}" CACHE PATH "Syncml library location" ) | 21:33 |
| Andy80 | can't you use http://pastebin.com please? | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_INCLUDE_DIR "${INCLUDE_INSTALL_DIR}/libsyncml-1.0" CACHE PATH "Syncml headers location" ) | 21:33 |
| Andy80 | vasily_pupkin: ? | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_BIN_DIR "${BIN_INSTALL_DIR}" CACHE PATH "Syncml binaries location" ) | 21:33 |
| slonopotamus | andre__, too late | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_DATA_DIR "${CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX}/share" CACHE PATH "Syncml data location" ) | 21:33 |
| Andy80 | -.- | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_EXEC_INSTALL_DIR "${BIN_INSTALL_DIR}" CACHE PATH "Syncml binary location" ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( PACKAGE "libsyncml" ) | 21:33 |
| slonopotamus | Andy80, too late | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( PACKAGE_NAME "libsyncml" ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( PACKAGE_STRING "${PACKAGE_NAME} ${LIBSYNCML_VERSION}" ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( PACKAGE_VERSION "${LIBSYNCML_VERSION}" ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( PACKAGE_SONAME "${LIBSYNCML_LIBVERSION_VERSION}" ) | 21:33 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( VERSION "${LIBSYNCML_VERSION}" ) | 21:34 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ~pastebin | 21:34 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ~pastebin | 21:34 |
| infobot | [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | CONFIGURE_FILE( "libsyncml-1.0.pc.cmake.in" "${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/libsyncml-1.0.pc" @ONLY) | 21:34 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ~pastebin | 21:34 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ~pastebin | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | ADD_SUBDIRECTORY( libsyncml ) | 21:34 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ~pastebin | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | CONFIGURE_FILE( "libsyncml/Doxyfile.in" "${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/libsyncml/Doxyfile" @ONLY) | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | ADD_CUSTOM_TARGET( DoxygenDocLibrary ${DOXYGEN_EXECUTABLE} ${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/libsyncml/Doxyfile ) | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | INSTALL( FILES "${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/libsyncml-1.0.pc" DESTINATION "${LIBDATA_INSTALL_DIR}/pkgconfig/" ) | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( LIBSYNCML_VERSION "${LIBSYNCML_VERSION}-RC${RELEASE_CANDIDATE}" ) | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | SET( CPACK_SOURCE_PACKAGE_FILE_NAME "${PROJECT_NAME}-${LIBSYNCML_VERSION}" ) | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | avatar@AliSo trunk % | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | 21:34 | |
| vasily_pupkin | holy shit | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | fscked erc | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | yeah, i'm really sory | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | :] | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | ^_^ | 21:34 |
| vasily_pupkin | http://pastebin.com/m6d72a259 <<-- too late, but.. :) | 21:34 |
| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, and from libsyncml subdir? | 21:35 |
| RST38h | what was it? | 21:36 |
| vasily_pupkin | http://pastebin.com/m15acd964 <<- | 21:36 |
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| slonopotamus | RST38h, accident :) | 21:37 |
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| RST38h | umgh | 21:37 |
| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, line 71 from second file is supposed to take care of linking | 21:38 |
| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, how it dies? | 21:39 |
| vasily_pupkin | em? | 21:39 |
| vasily_pupkin | cmake passes ok | 21:39 |
| vasily_pupkin | but when you do make | 21:39 |
| vasily_pupkin | in build dir, it says, that he couldn't get any rule for that fscked link.txt | 21:40 |
| MaceN8x0 | hm | 21:42 |
| MaceN8x0 | man i hope i get my touchbook soon | 21:42 |
| MaceN8x0 | im all amped up to get it | 21:42 |
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| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, scratchbox? | 21:44 |
| vasily_pupkin | yep | 21:44 |
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| vasily_pupkin | i build this stuff for regular maemo distribution | 21:44 |
| slonopotamus | http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=47903 no suolution, but close | 21:45 |
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| slonopotamus | s/suo/so/ | 21:45 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=47903 no solution, but close | 21:45 |
| slonopotamus | and http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=503705 | 21:45 |
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| vasily_pupkin | hm | 21:46 |
| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, any simlinks in path to source/build dir? | 21:46 |
| vasily_pupkin | i try to build cmake from source | 21:46 |
| vasily_pupkin | andddd | 21:46 |
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| vasily_pupkin | make[3]: *** No rule to make target `Source/CursesDialog/form/CMakeFiles/cmForm.dir/link.txt', needed by `Source/CursesDialog/form/libcmForm.a'. Stop. | 21:46 |
| vasily_pupkin | 21:46 | |
| vasily_pupkin | wow | 21:46 |
| vasily_pupkin | no symlinks | 21:47 |
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| slonopotamus | cmake version? how many nokia patches on top of it? :D | 21:48 |
| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, http://www.cmake.org/pipermail/cmake/2009-February/027065.html about cmake error | 21:49 |
| slonopotamus | err. no reply | 21:49 |
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| vasily_pupkin | hm | 21:49 |
| vasily_pupkin | a have cmake 2.6.2 :) | 21:49 |
| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, could you move source/build dirs to smth in / ? | 21:50 |
| vasily_pupkin | [sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: /targets/DIABLO_ARMEL/usr/src/opensync/libopensync/build] > pwd | 21:50 |
| vasily_pupkin | /targets/DIABLO_ARMEL/usr/src/opensync/libopensync/build | 21:50 |
| vasily_pupkin | 21:50 | |
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| crashanddie | vasily_pupkin: the path in [] kinda gave it away, no? | 21:51 |
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| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, /targets/DIABLO_ARMEL is not a symlink? | 21:51 |
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| vasily_pupkin | hm | 21:52 |
| slonopotamus | just wild guessing :) | 21:53 |
| vasily_pupkin | no | 21:53 |
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| slonopotamus | и вообще, это идиотизм между собой по-английски разговаривать. | 21:53 |
| vasily_pupkin | да, тоже верно | 21:53 |
| vasily_pupkin | :) | 21:53 |
| slonopotamus | :) | 21:54 |
| vasily_pupkin | фигня какая то с этим cmake | 21:54 |
| vasily_pupkin | я и новый собрать не могу - те же бока | 21:54 |
| vasily_pupkin | причем libwbxml собрался нормально. и кусок libsyncml | 21:54 |
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| slonopotamus | is there kde4 for maemo? | 21:56 |
| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3879 he must know the magic trick that'll fix your problem | 21:57 |
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| lcuk | kde4 was built for maemo4 ages ago i believe | 21:58 |
| * lcuk saw it at the last summit | 21:58 | |
| slonopotamus | Marijn Kruisselbrink, please, put up your hand | 21:58 |
| slonopotamus | lcuk, doesn't matter, it was cmake-based | 21:58 |
| Mek | slonopotamus: that would be me | 21:58 |
| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, ^ | 21:58 |
| vasily_pupkin | khm | 21:59 |
| vasily_pupkin | Mek is the guru of cmake? :) | 21:59 |
| slonopotamus | Mek, vasily_pupkin has problems with cmake and we suspect you fixed them when built kde for maemo | 21:59 |
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| Mek | and I think the last time I tried building kde stuff for diablo it turned out that bu using the qemu from the fremantle sdk cmake worked just fine in the diablo sdk... | 22:00 |
| Mek | (but strangely enough with that same qemu cmake in the fremantle sdk still has problems) | 22:00 |
| slonopotamus | Mek, problems like this: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=47903 | 22:00 |
| slonopotamus | Mek, err... 'using the qemu from the fremantle sdk cmake'? qemu or cmake? | 22:01 |
| Mek | yeah, problems like that go away by using a different qemu version... | 22:01 |
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| vasily_pupkin | пь | 22:01 |
| vasily_pupkin | moment :) | 22:01 |
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| Mek | but some other problems might occur with a different qemu version as well :) | 22:01 |
| slonopotamus | shouldn't | 22:01 |
| johnsq | that why i use native development | 22:01 |
| vasily_pupkin | yeh, i use strange qemu to prebuild parts of emacs and MicroB | 22:02 |
| Proteous_ | I developed my case of lice from a native | 22:02 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, qemu trunk is not bad at all too :) | 22:02 |
| locutus | emacs isnt very usable on maemo :( | 22:02 |
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| johnsq | locutus: eight megabytes constant swapping :) | 22:02 |
| slonopotamus | locutus, you wanted to say 'maemo isn't very usable in emacs' | 22:02 |
| locutus | johnsq: its mostly that the keyboard isnt very suited to its use | 22:03 |
| suihkulokki | ONLY eight?? how compact! | 22:03 |
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| locutus | my XEmacs currently uses 141MB of memory (: | 22:03 |
| * locutus whistles | 22:03 | |
| locutus | oh, 177 | 22:03 |
| vasily_pupkin | locutus: yeah. but only by default ;) | 22:04 |
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| vasily_pupkin | i improve config a bit.. and now it's realy cool | 22:04 |
| johnsq | locutus: use a bluetooth keyboard | 22:04 |
| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, try what Mek said :) | 22:04 |
| vasily_pupkin | i'm changing qemu at this moment | 22:04 |
| vasily_pupkin | to different version :) | 22:05 |
| locutus | johnsq: i dont want to carry *another* piece of equipment | 22:05 |
| * slonopotamus tried to compile sb qemu once but it wanted libsb :/ | 22:05 | |
| vasily_pupkin | locutus: not needed | 22:05 |
| slonopotamus | Mek, thanks for hint :) | 22:06 |
| johnsq | locutus: when you want to write much text, there is still no solution. | 22:07 |
| * mgedmin now has a pdf2html.py that produces HTML files with proper paragraphs, usable in FBReader | 22:07 | |
| slonopotamus | don't write 'much' :) more thinking, less coding | 22:07 |
| slonopotamus | mgedmin, why not just use evince? | 22:08 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: does it try converting styles? (italic,bold,etc) | 22:08 |
| johnsq | yes xournal and design works good. | 22:08 |
| vasily_pupkin | Mek: !! it's worked :) | 22:08 |
| mgedmin | slonopotamus: last time I tried evince, it ran out of RAM on page 6 | 22:08 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: yes | 22:08 |
| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, alive! she's alive :D | 22:08 |
| locutus | johnsq: i also like to run xemacs for a lot of stuff like reading mail, usenet, notes, agenda, running elisp code in batch mode, etc. | 22:09 |
| mgedmin | most of the heavy lifting is done by pdftohtml from sourceforge; I just added some heuristics to merge lines of text into paragraphs correctly | 22:09 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: coool! | 22:09 |
| vasily_pupkin | locutus: what's your problems with emacs on tablet? | 22:09 |
| johnsq | vasily_pupkin: ctrl+meta+esc+a | 22:09 |
| locutus | essentially, yes :) | 22:10 |
| vasily_pupkin | bheh :) | 22:10 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: bw, won't converting to .fb2 be better? | 22:10 |
| RST38h | s/bw/btw | 22:10 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: maybe, but then I'd have to learn .fb2 | 22:10 |
| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, say thx to google, that guy on kde forum who linked to Mek and Mek himself for being online :) | 22:10 |
| mgedmin | HTML is more universal anyway | 22:10 |
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| RST38h | heh | 22:10 |
| vasily_pupkin | locutus: I rebind m-x to ESC-+, TAB to menu, and rebind big combinations | 22:10 |
| vasily_pupkin | google: :-* | 22:11 |
| slonopotamus | i guess diablo sdk just uses old, patched and broken qemu | 22:11 |
| vasily_pupkin | i have several qemu's | 22:12 |
| vasily_pupkin | one from trunk, one pathed, and all from SDK | 22:12 |
| * slonopotamus only has 0.10.5 (latest release) and trunk. trunk works better | 22:13 | |
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| vasily_pupkin | this shit works with old 0.8.2, not with trunk :] | 22:14 |
| slonopotamus | and what happens if you run sb with trunk one? | 22:15 |
| vasily_pupkin | crazy stuff with link.txt :) | 22:15 |
| slonopotamus | oh | 22:15 |
| slonopotamus | vasily_pupkin, w/e. happy building! :) | 22:16 |
| vasily_pupkin | yeah | 22:16 |
| vasily_pupkin | syncml from trunk work good with my nokia 7610 | 22:16 |
| vasily_pupkin | i want to build opensync to sync calendar with GPE | 22:17 |
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| MaceN8x0 | blah | 22:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | trying to change my bg with fluxbox in mer | 22:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | hoping eterm comes with esetroot | 22:18 |
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| johnsq | MaceN8x0: 4mb memory only for background lost | 22:19 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 22:20 |
| MaceN8x0 | that much?? | 22:20 |
| eichi | i reinstalled mer with mer installer, like i did it 5 times before without problems..now the bootmenu does not start after power...there is only a nokia logo pictures with nothing else happens | 22:20 |
| MaceN8x0 | wait til i start using tansparent eterm too ;) | 22:21 |
| eichi | after maybe 30 sec logo showing, the device power off | 22:21 |
| johnsq | MaceN8x0: 800x480x2 i think maemo is 16bit otherwise x4 | 22:21 |
| MaceN8x0 | well mer ~ maemo | 22:22 |
| MaceN8x0 | im in fluxbox | 22:22 |
| MaceN8x0 | got the background going | 22:22 |
| MaceN8x0 | wish i had a battery applet for fluxbox | 22:22 |
| johnsq | MaceN8x0: you can set the font bigger in the theme, than the menus are usable | 22:22 |
| slonopotamus | MaceN8x0, latest stable cups builds | 22:22 |
| MaceN8x0 | and bt applet | 22:22 |
| MaceN8x0 | slonopotamus: i gave up on gentoo | 22:23 |
| slonopotamus | MaceN8x0, k :) | 22:23 |
| MaceN8x0 | mer + flux = better | 22:23 |
| MaceN8x0 | less hassle | 22:23 |
| johnsq | MaceN8x0: = same | 22:23 |
| MaceN8x0 | slonopotamus: and the kb lights up in mer haha | 22:24 |
| MaceN8x0 | most of the time | 22:24 |
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| MaceN8x0 | Eterm: Error: Unable to load font "-misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-*-*-*-c-*-iso10646-1". Falling back on "k14" | 22:25 |
| MaceN8x0 | Eterm: FATAL: Couldn't load the fallback font either. Giving up. | 22:25 |
| MaceN8x0 | doh | 22:25 |
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| Veggen | anyone want a possibly defect, possibly only with broken battery, n770? | 22:36 |
| Veggen | been lying in drawer for years, worked before it went there, I think. | 22:37 |
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| MaceN8x0 | what app | 22:43 |
| MaceN8x0 | tells x to rescan its fontpaths? | 22:43 |
| MaceN8x0 | root@restless:/mnt/ext# xset fp rehash | 22:45 |
| MaceN8x0 | hm | 22:45 |
| MaceN8x0 | i dont know why i cant load these fonts | 22:45 |
| amr | Veggen deffo \o | 22:47 |
| amr | what do you want for it? | 22:47 |
| lcuk | postage @ $100 per mile | 22:47 |
| amr | lol | 22:48 |
| johnsq | MaceN8x0: truetype fonts? | 22:50 |
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| * lcuk smiles | 22:55 | |
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| Gadgetoid | Ugh, N810 remote desktop is stunning | 23:04 |
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| Gadgetoid | I can run Windows in a virtual machine on my Mac, rdesktop into it, and have a whole sneaky little powerful computing environment | 23:05 |
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| dieb_ | I get "Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' with 'fakeroot apt-get update' on fremantlesdk+sbox. I only added two lines on sources.list for extras | 23:10 |
| dieb_ | any tips? | 23:10 |
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| crashanddie | dieb_: what do you think the keyring is? | 23:11 |
| dieb_ | crashanddie: somewhere you put your keys in | 23:11 |
| crashanddie | dieb_: and what does the error message say? | 23:11 |
| dieb_ | there's no such keyring | 23:12 |
| johnsq | dieb_: you can disable the auth checking, iirc | 23:12 |
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| Gadgetoid | I find the lack of bluetooth mouse drives disturbing | 23:15 |
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| fiferboy | Hmm, I'm running into an "mmap: Permission denied" error in scratchbox - even after "echo 4096 > /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr" | 23:19 |
| fiferboy | This is in DIABLO_ARMEL, but comes in the heels of updating scratchbox and installing the FREMANTLE_* rootstraps | 23:21 |
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| lardman | anyone know, off hand, if opengl-es supports glColorMask? | 23:25 |
| * crashanddie replaces the ssl cert on a IIS box, woohoo | 23:25 | |
| lardman | hmm, apparently so. Good | 23:26 |
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| fiferboy | Hmm, the same code works in DIABLO_X86 - I don't think this is a good sign | 23:29 |
| GAN800 | I can't believe I'm going to set aside computer money for a tablet. | 23:29 |
| jeremiah | Me neither, but the new tablet looks awesome :] | 23:29 |
| lardman | have I missed something? | 23:30 |
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| infobot | I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power | 23:30 |
| GAN800 | jeremiah, they better hand out some discount codes. | 23:30 |
| RichiH | infobot: botsnack | 23:31 |
| infobot | RichiH: :) | 23:31 |
| jeremiah | lardman: Noting bacon related. :) | 23:31 |
| jeremiah | GAN800: I here that! | 23:31 |
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| jeremiah | I totally agree | 23:31 |
| GAN800 | It'll be a sad day when they abandon the community that thoroughly. | 23:31 |
| jeremiah | indeed | 23:31 |
| GAN800 | "Oh, thanks for the hundreds and thousands of hours you've put into this platform over the last 3 years, now here's a phone you can't afford." | 23:32 |
| fiferboy | Has anyone recently install fremantle rootstraps and updated scratchbox to maemo5 and broken DIABLO_ARMEL? | 23:32 |
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| pupnik_ | gan800 you can take maemo (mer) with you... | 23:33 |
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| crashanddie | GAN800: you broke it again | 23:35 |
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| fiferboy | I take it no one has... | 23:35 |
| crashanddie | GAN800: I told you, stop hitting that cable with your foot | 23:35 |
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| GAN800 | crashanddie, but it's so warm and my foot is so cold. | 23:38 |
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| Gadgetoid | I took one look at the N900 and bought an N810 | 23:45 |
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| RichiH | pupnik_: while true, maemo kinda needs a platform to run on | 23:48 |
| RichiH | while a pandora or similar would be an option.. | 23:49 |
| pupnik_ | smartq maybe | 23:49 |
| Gadgetoid | Ha ha Pandora :D | 23:49 |
| Gadgetoid | I'm still waiting for mine *cries* | 23:49 |
| RichiH | same here | 23:49 |
| pupnik_ | but nobody has matched the n810 yet | 23:49 |
| Gadgetoid | The N810 is a lovely, lovely machine | 23:49 |
| pupnik_ | same here :) | 23:50 |
| Gadgetoid | And so shiny, too | 23:50 |
| Gadgetoid | Although it keeps taking my remote desktop session out of full screen when it falls asleep, gah! | 23:50 |
| RichiH | that reminds.. i need to download the maps for .au | 23:50 |
| Gadgetoid | alt+enter doesn't work in rdesktop | 23:50 |
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| Gadgetoid | I have to REACH, REACH! for the maximize button! | 23:50 |
| Jaffa | Yay, first pass works. Contacts have photos from Facebook with some basic auto-detection :-) | 23:51 |
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| pupnik_ | congrats | 23:51 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Congrats Jaffa :) | 23:51 |
| smackpotat | has anyone tried to modify the gps antenna like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypljg3MLAf8 | 23:51 |
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| Gadgetoid | Now someone get bluetooth mice to work in rdesktop ;) | 23:51 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N810: I'm very chuffed. Now to make a fancy Fremantle UI | 23:51 |
| Jaffa | Well, not *now* as such. | 23:51 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hehe | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N810: I had to resort to the libebook C API to actually set a photo against a contact | 23:52 |
| smackpotat | is the gps visible when you take the back cover off | 23:55 |
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| * qwerty12_N810 curses the cunts, Thomson, for producing such shit routers | 23:55 | |
| Gadgetoid_N810 | Yay, xchat fun! | 23:55 |
| crashanddie | any entrust expert by any chance? | 23:56 |
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