IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-08-25

javispedro:) still using gtk here tho. (stealing code from even gnome cause even showing a listbox is hard)00:00
lcukgtk is nice and stable :)00:00
javispedrobut even more verbose than java. and java is _very_ _very_ verbose.00:01
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message144Hi... Does anyone know if Maemo 5 on Nokia n900 will have Thunderbird Address Book syncronization support for Ubuntu?00:08
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message144Also, does anyone know if maemo5 on the n900 for TMobile will be crippled or locked down from having root access?00:13
javispedroit would be a surprise if it's able to sync with nokia's windows software, so I guess not.00:13
qwerty12_N810javispedro: ke-recv in trunk has a "" script which inserts "g_nokia"00:14
javispedroqwerty12_N810, wow! good to know :)00:15
javispedroeven though wasn't the nokia protocol serial based? why implement it in the kernel?00:15
qwerty12_N810It'd pretty much be a fail if a Nokia phone was unable to use PC Suite :p00:16
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qwerty12_N810Maybe they just wanted some USB gadget love00:16
javispedroah, separate usb descriptors. makes sense.00:16
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message144Does the nokia windows software have some kind of vcard/csv import?00:17
* qwerty12_N810 wonders who'll do "g_itunes" a la Palm Pre ;)00:17
javispedrowe discussed it once here, shouldn't be hard.00:17
* pupnik can tell time by jupiter now00:18
qwerty12_N810Guess not, a quick modification of g_file_storage would suffice... (Does iTunes support iPods in mass storage mode?)00:18
javispedroafaik all ipods are mass storage mode, only with some custom commands00:19
qwerty12_N810Ah, right, thanks :)00:19
javispedrodon't take my word tho, I don't have one ;)00:19
qwerty12_N810Heh, me neither...00:20
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darkJajajaja i have hping3 and nmap how i can install more pentest tool into my maemo00:38
darkAnyone knows00:38
* GeneralAntilles would be incredibly surprised if the T-Mobile N900 did have root access.00:38
lardmanthere's a T-mobile N900?00:39
lardmanqwerty12_N810: my wife has an ipod and I have windows, I might give it a go one day00:39
darkWhen did n900 go out the market00:40
GeneralAntilleslardman, apparently.00:40
GeneralAntillesThat's what the FCC filing was for.00:40
lardmanI dislike/distrust iTunes though00:40
lardmanGeneralAntilles: ah, ok00:40
GeneralAntillesdark, announcement should be on September 2nd.00:40
andre__VDVsx, after a reboot the bluemaemo icon is shown. missing post-install?00:42
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VDVsxandre__, nop, but can be incompatible with fremantle00:43
andre__VDVsx, not the only app with that problem - see
lcukandre__, is there a generic solution to this00:44
lcukif its on multi apps00:45
lcukmaybe a wiki page to help :)00:45
andre__i have no idea myself about the reason. i just test, triage and report bugs :)00:45
lcukhopefully your kilt is not standard workwear00:46
javispedrothis one bug happens on sdk or on real device?00:46
andre__lcuk, no, i normally work naked ;-)00:46
andre__javispedro, hardware00:46
lcukarghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh tmi!00:47
qwerty12_N810andre__: please don't report any bugs to do with the camera in that case :)00:47
andre__lcuk, *you* asked :)00:47
javispedromy mind boggles what could be causing a bug like that00:47
lcukwhat, missing icons?00:48
andre__javispedro, no clue. but there are applications that do not have that problem.00:48
darkExist on nokia n810 a video recorder00:48
* pupnik boggles at yuv 00:48
javispedrolcuk, yep, missing icons only in real device.00:48
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pupnikwho invented that.. i bet some ee00:48
lcukdont you have to update the icon cache for the folder you installed the icon to00:48
lardmandark: not really, there's a camera app that you might modify, but real-time encoding would be hard00:48
lcukisnt that the same as 81000:48
javispedroandre__, e.g. do you remember if the openttd icon appearead?00:49
andre__it did.00:49
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pupnikjavispedro - is fps counter on build 0823 accurate?00:50
javispedropupnik, it should :S why?00:50
lardmandark: possible using the DSP to perform the encoding I imagine, but not a quick task00:51
pupniklower numbers than i thought i had in CT - 10-2800:51
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javispedroyou mean it feels faster than what the fps counter shows?00:51
pupnikbtw 12khz is also good00:51
pupnikyes, maybe due to continuous music00:51
javispedroI had that feeling too00:52
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javispedrowell, I _have that feeling..00:52
pupniki also00:52
pupnikmaybe due tto small screen00:52
javispedroi call it the pda effect00:52
lcukpupnik, yuv is an ideal solution to video.  chroma is less important to the eyes00:52
javispedrodon't know why, but 15fps videos in palm t|x seemed normal to me.00:52
lcukand so you lower the res and bobs your uncle00:53
javispedrowhile horrid on desktop.00:53
pupnikit might be a good idea for 640x480 dosbox lcuk00:54
andre__javispedro, grmpf. installed openttd again here. icon is now not directly shown either00:54
lcuktheres lots of possiblities pupnik00:54
andre__i prefer to blame nokia.00:54
lcukif you are serious enough to get atarted ill try to help and show you what works well etc00:55
javispedroandre__, :O i had just purged everything, restarted hildon, then installed it the usual way to test and it apperead00:55
lcukandre__, thats curious00:55
javispedroblue box then?00:55
lcukperhaps the thing which is meant to scan for icons is guffed up00:55
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lcukie got stuck in some state00:56
andre__let me reboot00:56
lcukwhere it no longer checks for refreshes00:56
javispedromaybe they renamed the theme folder to /usr/share/icons/symbian instead of /usr/share/icons/hicolor and forgot to tell ;P00:56
lcukif you are sure it worked in the past00:56
lcukand you havent had system updates00:56
qwerty12_N810Maybe they corrected their spelling mistake and renamed it to colour ;)00:56
javispedrothat would be a years old spelling mistake00:57
lcukwhats finnish for colour?00:57
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* lcuk is betting something like tana_fi_color00:57
lcukbased on the internals of maemo :D ;)00:58
andre__javispedro, openttd icon shown after reboot00:58
javispedropupnik, i am comparing at this very moment snes9x pc with 10/60 and drnoksnes with 10/60 and truly drnoksnes looks more fluid00:58
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pupnikgimme src lemme play!01:00
lcukwhat would happen if you took off 10% of the lines01:00
javispedrobut both look sluggish and unplayable at 10fps01:00
pupniksomeday :)01:00
pupniki give you gp2x nes :)01:00
javispedroit's just that even though the n8x0 is frameskipping like craze it still gives that movement sense.01:00
lcukwould the lowering of rendering 10% of pixels work01:01
lcukand still be usable01:01
javispedrolcuk, actually, windowed 2x means cutting around the lower 10%01:01
javispedrowhy you ask?01:01
lcukcos thats how i use vnc from work01:01
lcuki have to scale it down01:01
lcukand there was a noticable bandwidth drop01:02
* lcuk is just trying to see other ways to help01:02
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JaffaAnyone ever tried importing photos into Contacts directly from your Facebook's friends' profile pictures?01:03
pupnikgonna close ssh to test more performance - address me if you want me to see what u say01:03
javispedroi am seeing that forcing frameskip 5 (10fps) makes most games sleep (mario kart uses around 40% of cpu time) , that'd help with battery.01:03
lcukhow are the bitmap writes performed01:04
lcukdo they work on a pixel by pixel basis01:04
lcukwhen converting from internal game framebuffer to omapfb01:04
javispedroi don't know how that works internally.01:04
lcukyeah,m but what takes the 256color game framebuffer and puts that onto the omapfb01:04
lcukis that single pixel at a time01:05
javispedronag, the game framebuffer is 16bit01:05
lcukcomaptible surfaces?01:05
javispedrothe snes does some heavy blending, transparencies, can't be done in 8 bit01:05
lcukor conversion required01:05
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javispedroconversion, the original tiles are paletted, the palette is precalculated in nokia rgb56501:05
javispedrothe blendings/transparencies are then done in rgb56501:05
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javispedro(i didn't write that :P )01:06
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javispedrolol, i need to put the = Depends in the fremantle openttd.01:07
javispedroit crashes the hard way when an incompatible data package is installed :P01:08
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darkExist a firewall for maemo01:30
darkIm searchimg a firewall for n81001:32
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darkAnyone knows01:33
nomiswhy are you looking for a firewall?01:33
darkBecause recently i has been poisoned01:34
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darkYes arp poisoning01:36
darkAll my comunication was sniffed01:36
Woollyyour connection was not encrypted?01:37
lcuka firewall stops that does it?01:37
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nomisit does?01:37
darkNot woolly01:37
lcuknomis how can a firewall stop you being sniffed01:38
lcuksniffing is usually mitm01:38
lcukie beyond your firewall01:38
Woollyie encrypt your connection01:38
nomisthats why I am asking  :)01:38
lcukme too01:38
darkNot stop but in these moment you can see what happens01:38
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Woollywhat happens to whom, where?01:39
darkYes mitm01:39
lcukso dark, how would a firewall prevent your data from being sniffed01:39
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darkFor example you can see in the logs what its going on01:40
darkOr receive alerts01:40
lcukalerts mmm01:41
lcuki am not aware of any open ports on the n81001:41
lcukis there software listening for connections by default?01:41
* brbrbr greet all01:41
Woollydark: can you encrypt your connection?01:41
Woollybrbrbr: hey01:41
lcukdark, a firewall only protects you if you have open ports listening for connections01:41
lcukif there is nothing acting as a server on your machine01:42
brbrbrWoolly ?01:42
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lcukthen a firewall would be as much good as a chocolate fireguard01:42
Woollybrbrbr: you said greet all, so i said hello01:42
brbrbrhi :-)01:42
darkSo the only way to alert if exist a change on my route connection its make a script01:43
darkAnd run as daemon01:43
lcukjust grab a firewall for linux01:44
lcukand build it01:44
lcukim sure it would work01:44
lcukif you are determined then they probably exist01:44
lcukand you wont be the first, but most dont care01:44
lcukisnt there some low level super duper firewall that you need vi or emacs to configure01:45
lcukie, no ui01:45
brbrbryeah, netfilter can it01:45
Woollywhy would you choose a notification mechanism over a preventative mechanism?01:45
lcukcos some people are brought up with norton01:45
* Woolly spits01:46
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lcukwhich ironically uses every trick in the virus writers toolkit to embed itself into the system01:46
lcukand you pay for the privilege01:46
Woollycommon sense is the best way to avoid getting a virus01:47
lcuknahhh common sense doesnt work always01:47
lcukwe humans are fragile01:47
Woollynot when you're dealing with retards01:47
lcukand theres a loose chain somewhere along the line01:47
lcukeven unix/linux folks can fall for viruses and trojans01:47
lcukor get rooted etc01:48
* lcuk has avg on windows, but no firewall01:48
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* Woolly doesn't use windows any more01:48
lcuki like the xp window manager :) runs all my OSS software better than anything else ive tried01:48
brbrbrthats how ALL system SW works, not only firewalls, because API suxx and used mainly to horsepower "smoke and mirror" game01:49
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darkI prefer linux01:49
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lcuki prefer linux underneath01:49
javispedroman, why all online gtk tutorails I find are for php-gtk01:49
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darkBut in my home pc i had zone alarm with nod3201:49
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GadgetoidI fell for a virus before, our love was short and sweet, but we had such good times01:49
lcukand realistically, if there was a Microsoft sponsored Window Manager that acted like Xp i would buy it in a heartbeat01:49
lcuk(for linux)01:50
GadgetoidI can't abide XP, it's so freaking inconsistent01:50
GadgetoidThat said...01:50
lcukWFM YMMV etc :)01:50
Woollyi prefer OS X for a good user experience, COWE!01:50
radicis there a way to disable the automatic reboot on heavy load without recompiling the kernel?01:50
GadgetoidI prefer OSX, but there's things about it that irk me01:51
javispedroradic, you probably mean the hardware watchdog?01:51
lcukradic, r&d mode i believe01:51
WoollyGadgetoid: like what?01:51
lcukbut its not user friendly lol01:51
GadgetoidNo path in the file open dialogue for one Woolly, but I've been too lazy to find a hack/fix01:51
radicjavispedro: yes01:51
brbrbrcheck "Windows Fundamentals for legacy PC's" :)01:51
lardmanr&d and disable watchdog flag01:51
javispedro~burn himself01:51
* infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze01:51
lcukhey simon01:51
lardmanhi Gary01:52
* lcuk just nearly flooded house01:52
radiclardman: how can I disable it?01:52
lcuki blame jaffa01:52
WoollyGadgetoid: tried cmd+shift+G?01:52
GadgetoidWoolly: It's just not the same :(01:52
lardmanand add no-lifeguard-reset01:52
WoollyGadgetoid: haha01:52
lcukwho knows how to teach infobot01:52
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qwerty12_N810infobot: rd-mode is
infobotqwerty12_N810: okay01:53
radicafter few houres the device reboots caus heavy load and I dosn't know what makes the load...01:53
darkWhat's rd-mode01:53
javispedrowhy not weird chars too?01:53
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javispedroinfobot, R&D is
infobotjavispedro: okay01:53
lcuksomething you dont need01:53
darkI never hear that01:53
GadgetoidWoolly: I typically save files by bunging the whole path into the dialogue box, as much as I hate Vista this is one thing it handles beautifully01:53
lardmanradic: try this:
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: I'm used to "rd-mode" as the flasher line is something like "--set-rd-mode"01:54
WoollyGadgetoid: I'm not sure I follow, what application?01:54
lcukis it rd mode that gives you automatic sudo gainroot type power01:54
lcukwithout the "you wannt kill device.." message01:54
GadgetoidWoolly: Any and all applications, I quite often navigate the folder structure by typing directory names instead of clicking on them01:54
qwerty12_N810lcuk: ja01:54
WoollyGadgetoid: okay, but then why do you need the path?01:55
GadgetoidWoolly: It's more about having an always-visible box into which I can fire folder names01:55
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radicI tryed to find something at the forest in the night but there's no way to sucess without a working device with GPS :(01:56
WoollyGadgetoid: ahh right, I see now. The Go To doesn't work because it doesn't auto-insert the current path?01:56
WoollyGadgetoid: and it's not persistent01:56
lardmannot sure you'll have much luck in a forest anyway tbh01:56
lcukradic, i told you, the body was buried 30 paces north01:56
GadgetoidWoolly: Indeed, although you can type a folder name into Go To, but if you're shooting through one folder at a time that's a lot of CMD+SHIFT+G presses01:57
WoollyGadgetoid: indeed!01:57
GadgetoidWoolly: Maybe I just don't work right :)01:57
radiclcuk: you told me anything?01:57
lcuknm radic :) joke01:57
radicwhy is the mouse-point disabled by default?01:59
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lardmanbed time for me, night all02:00
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radicthe bootreason was sw_rst02:01
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jophishdoes maemo use /etc/fstab for mounting things, or some funny configuration02:02
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jophishfor examples, could I change the location of /usr/ and just put the change in fstab02:02
* javispedro sees marshal_VOID__STRING_UINT_FLAGS_UINT in gtk code and panics02:03
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radichow are the rd flags seperated?02:05
radicby ","?02:05
Woollymonday, tuesday, happy days02:06
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eichi_which app do you use for shopping lists?02:53
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Firebirdhm, does the fremantle SDK have a task switcher?03:47
GeneralAntillesNot yet03:49
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Firebirdshould I be worrying if my programs disappear visually then?03:51
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mkpaamy canola and mplayer stopped playing sound in videos.. google didn't tell me any likely answers04:06
brbrbrwhat meant by "stopped" ?04:08
brbrbrsame videos, correctly played before ? sound volume  checked ? equalizers and etc ?04:08
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mkpaaeverything worked fine when I last tried them (that was before last update) and now videos don't have sound on either canola or mplayer04:13
mkpaacanola plays audio files just fine04:14
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THe_nationhey ladies04:23
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pupnikdoes maemo xterm support an audio bell sound (ctrl-g)04:55
pupniki would like the sshßscreenßirssi session to beep on msg04:55
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Macerson just went to sleep05:06
Macernow i can see about getting this damn browser installed05:06
MacerLuke-Jr: why don't your bins pick up? :) like some of them did but some didn't and i have no idea why05:07
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Macerso it's trying to build stuff again05:07
Luke-JrMacer: USE flags. -K should force05:13
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MacerLuke-Jr: can i see your make.conf?05:16
Macerso i can match up the use flags?05:16
Maceremerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "x11-libs/qt-webkit".05:16
Macerthat is what happens when i -K05:16
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pupnikdoes epson controller on n8x0 actually throw away screen updates?05:18
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Macerwhich is odd because some of the bins work but some don't05:19
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Macer[binary  N    ] dev-util/cmake-2.6.4  USE="qt4 -emacs -vim-syntax"05:20
Macer[ebuild  N    ] x11-libs/qt-webkit-4.5.1  USE="kde -debug -pch" 0 kB05:20
Maceri don't get it05:21
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pupnik  high speed robotic hands05:23
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Macer[ebuild  N    ] x11-libs/qt-webkit-4.5.1  USE="debug kde pch" 0 kB05:26
Macer              Tells emerge to only use binary packages (from $PKGDIR).  All05:28
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MacerLuke-Jr: have you tested this method? maybe there is a problem with something on your site05:33
Luke-JrMacer: nope05:33
Luke-Jryou can always download it manually etc05:33
Macerhm. because i just can't seem to get it to grab the bins05:33
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MacerPortage[blocks B     ] media-sound/phonon ("media-sound/phonon" is blocking x11-libs/qt-phonon-4.5.1)05:56
Macer[blocks B     ] x11-libs/qt-phonon:4 ("x11-libs/qt-phonon:4" is blocking media-sound/phonon-4.4_pre20090520)05:56
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Maceromfg i give up06:08
Macerthis shit is too much of  a pain in the ass to do06:08
Macerunmask this06:08
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Maceradd this keyword06:08
Macerto 1293871293827 pkgs06:08
johnxhaving fun with gentoo?06:09
Macerfuck it's a pain :) it runs but UGH06:09
johnxmumble mumble told ya so mumble06:10
Macer[blocks B     ] <x11-libs/qt-qt3support-4.5.2 ("<x11-libs/qt-qt3support-4.5.2" is blocking x11-libs/qt-gui-4.5.2-r2, x11-libs/qt-core-4.5.2, x11-libs/qt-script-4.5.2)06:10
Macer[blocks B     ] >x11-libs/qt-script-4.5.1-r9999 (">x11-libs/qt-script-4.5.1-r9999" is blocking x11-libs/qt-opengl-4.5.1, x11-libs/qt-test-4.5.1, x11-libs/qt-sql-4.5.1, x11-libs/qt-dbus-4.5.1, x11-libs/qt-qt3support-4.5.1)06:10
Macernow i'm running into stupid shit like pkg conflicts06:10
Maceryah. fuck gentoo. it really isn't worth the trouble06:11
Macerby the time i iron out all the bullshit then i might as well use mer 2.0 :)06:11
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* Macer wipes the sd06:11
johnxthat was my experience with gentoo circa 2003 or so06:12
Macerwell. you run into something that doesn't build06:12
Macerthen you try to unmask shit to get it to build06:12
Macerthen it fails while building06:12
Macerso you try something else that requires massive unmasking06:12
johnxyeah, I know. I tried to tell you I think06:12
Macerwhich fails :)06:12
Maceri remember this being the reason i ditched it on x8606:13
Macerand started using fbsd06:13
johnxand all of that is separated by minutes of hours waiting for the failure to occur06:13
Macerah well.. let me boot mer and try to install fluxbox heh06:13
Macerbut this gentoo bullshit isn't wroth it. i'm going to wipe it now06:14
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brbrbr|restbtw, what is Sabayon ? same as gentoo ?:)06:17
Macernever ran it06:21
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Macermake: *** [all-recursive] Error 106:27
* Macer wipes gentoo and never looks back06:27
erik____1How can i know from which repository does a package come from in maemo ?06:28
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MaceN8x0i want to be different!07:03
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* man_in_shack waves08:28
man_in_shackanyone know if there's a shortcut way to clear the screen in maemopad?08:29
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thuxot does anybody have this booklet? curious about 12h battery life, how atom can do that?09:22
Stskeepsthux: nokia is -really- good at power management09:23
Stskeepsrecall that09:24
Stskeepsthey can probably beat the chipsets in the device into shape09:24
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bensonHi. I'm new here.when I differ the result of "$sb2 sb2-show path /etc" and "$sb2 -e sb2-show path /etc", I get two path mapping. That' means the different between build mode and emulator mode.But I wonder about "$sb2 ./configure". Where are the libs and build dependeces mapped?To the build environment path?As the result of "$sb2 sb2-show path /etc", I guess they are mapped to the build...09:54
benson...environment.So If I cross compiled a package, where to intall the libs?build environment or rootstrap?09:54
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VDVsxmorning X-Fade :)10:30
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bensongood morning10:33
brbrbrmorning :)10:33
brbrbrbut 11:30 AM here10:33
benson15:34 here10:34
bensonI'm new here.when I differ the result of "$sb2 sb2-show path /etc" and "$sb2 -e sb2-show path /etc", I get two path mapping. That' means the different between build mode and emulator mode.10:34
bensonBut I wonder about "$sb2 ./configure". Where are the libs and build dependeces mapped?To the build environment path?As the result of "$sb2 sb2-show path /etc", I guess they are mapped to the buildenvironment.So If I cross compiled a package, where to intall the libs?build environment or rootstrap?10:34
bensonAre you using sb2?10:35
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* man_in_i1ssi grumbles10:51
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man_in_irssimy maemo won't boot :(10:56
Stskeepsgot bootmenu with usb networking enabled?10:57
man_in_irssinot sure about usb networking10:57
man_in_irssidon't evem know where my cable is10:58
man_in_irssibut bootmenu, yes10:58
Stskeepsif you tried to install mer and followed the guide, it should work10:58
man_in_irssiwell, i'm on mer now10:59
Stskeepsmorning tigert10:59
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man_in_irssiso ...11:00
Stskeepsdoes it say anything about USB networking when you are in bootmenu?11:02
man_in_irssii guess that means i should switch to laptop :P11:02
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man_in_ltopow, hot keyboard11:04
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man_in_ltopok, the charging screen comes up fine for a start11:06
man_in_ltopoh, no it doesn't :|11:07
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JaffaMorning, all11:07
Stskeepsmorning jaffa11:07
man_in_ltopi don't see a usb option in bootmenu11:07
man_in_ltopthe problem is something to do with the charging screen11:08
man_in_ltopso now i'm back in maemo11:12
man_in_ltopi should probably reflash it11:14
man_in_ltopget rid of all my problems11:14
man_in_ltopbut i'll want to keep all my apps and some of my settings/data :P11:14
qwerty12_N810If you're able to boot to Mer, why not just mount /dev/mtdblock4 there, instead of trying to do so over USB? At the least, you'd be able to get any images or the like back11:16
man_in_ltopbut it's booted maemo now11:16
man_in_ltopi just need to work out what i want to keep, how to transfer it etc11:16
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man_in_ltopmaemopad+ needs a one-key clear command11:18
pupnikcan N8x0 xv / yuv scaling do non integer scaling ratios and independent x/y scaling factors?  say i want to make a 320x400 window appear onscreen at 4:3 ratio11:18
pupniklike *anyone* knows that... ;)11:19
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X-Fadepupnik: lcuk might.11:20
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pupnikdosbox has some funky modes, and it would be nice to not have to software-acale that to 640x48011:21
pupnikcourse, opengl would make that so easy...11:22
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lcuk2pupnik, make screen bigger to compensate11:28
lcuk2and just leave it drawn black11:29
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lcuk2xv does the scaling for you, but as you noticed it always fills the screen (using the mode changes liqbase does)11:36
lcuk2so you just have to take care of aspect by drawing on the bits you need11:36
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pupnikboo hiss11:39
pupnikthanks lcuk211:40
lcuk2feck off - you have gone from no mode changes to hardware scaling11:40
lcuk2its only adjusting your Y start line11:40
* pupnik awards lcuk2 a sourcream-sauerkraut sandwich smoothie 11:41
lcuk2i'd rather havea bacon butty, but thanks :D11:41
pupnikfew games ever used those odd modes11:41
lcuk2yeah its just to see anyway11:41
Myrttimmmm bacon :-/11:41
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lcuk2hiya Myrtti11:42
pupnikdosbox still software scales 320x200 tp 640x40011:42
* Myrtti looks at her ryebread with lowfat fresh cheese and a lettuce leaf11:42
Myrttiyeah, I'd love a bacon butty11:42
pupnikthe backside of a pig?11:44
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kirmathis is off-topic question, but still: what is application security (or "capability") model used on Maemo? Is there sandboxing of applications? as far as I can Google about it, it seems that Nokia trusts quite a bit on users not finding, or installing applications from random or untrustable sources...12:08
kirmaerr, not off-topic on this channel.12:08
kirmaon security-inconscious end user market, that might be a recipe for trouble12:09
kirmaeven some sort of authority/community certificate model for trust categories would be ok.12:09
kirmaI'm obviously thinking of Fremantle, that's going to appear on truly mass market oriented devices, that is, phones.12:09
adeusI'm guessing they will only allow installations from trusted apt sources12:11
pupnikinstalling non-nokia software brings up a prominent warning12:11
Myrttikirma: "authority/community certificate model" already it's uncouraged to use other repositories than the nokia ones12:11
pupnikoh fremantle12:11
pupnikdunno that12:12
VDVsxprobably, however you can install things with red pill mode also, I guess12:12
qwerty12_N810pupnik: warning is still there, in a slightly more annoying form12:12
kirmajust looking at these to-be-announced-next-week things and thinking that even with its weaknesses, S60v3 capability model as policy enforcement has its positive sides, and wouldn't be that impossible to implement for the paranoid12:12
qwerty12_N810But I don't mind accepting it each, and every time if it means I can install whatever.12:13
kirmaI'd also want installations of marginal hobbyist software not to be unbearably hard, I mean, not practical for truly nontechnical end users12:13
pupnikthey need the legal fig leaf12:13
kirmajust something that warns them of the issues blind trust on unverified sources can cause12:14
kirmawouldn't really care so much about it all unless N900 would seem like a reasonably viable replacement for E90, even if the keyboard is cramped12:15
kirmagetting a bit of gadget fever once again.12:15
X-Fadekirma: Join the club ;)12:15
adeusthat god maemo doesn't have the capability model, just struggling with it :)12:16
kirmaI were surprised that dimensions mentioned around put it actually below the communicator in cubic volume, and only slight bit wider12:16
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kirmaadeus: by capability model I mean one where user could tick on and off reasonably understandable subsystems for each application, or select if specific operations can be performed freely, queried once, every time or rejected12:18
pupniksomebody make a drop-in omap3430 board for n810 :)12:18
kirmanot a great fan of stuff like location data being not available to applications without certification on early S60v3 devices even if the user would want that, though.12:19
pupnikdoes n900 support priveleged stuff for locking software?12:20
X-Fadekirma: Well if in S60 an app requests all capabilities, every user just clicks OK anyway ;)12:20
kirmaof course, that may be the situation.12:21
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kirma"the application is trying to do X. [Allow this time] [Allow always in future] [Disallow this time] [Disallow always in future]" or something as default setting12:22
Proteous_[Disallow for the next two times but then only every other time after that]12:23
kirmaof course, that would result vista-style moronity where users would click "allow always" on anything that pops up. but at least the mechanism would be there.12:23
JaffaAFAICT from the HAM sources, adding any arbitrary additional repository is still allowed. But obviously, as a community, we're putting in place some QA checks for Extras12:23
Jaffa(crowdsourcing via the extras-testing repository)12:23
qwerty12_N810Out of curiosity, if a person had never opened the Application Manager, enabled rd-mode to get root, and installed a package, using apt-get, which killed their device, would the Nokia warning still hold true?12:27
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VDVsxqwerty12_N810, hw kill ? :P12:32
qwerty12_N810I guess... it's probably not hard to cook up a few ways to do so...12:33
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Jaffaqwerty12_N810: I don't think the warning is legally useful anyway. Why would someone have legal recourse to Nokia when they did something themselves to their own device?12:33
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VDVsxvery unlikely, I'm only seeing some possibilities for the hard drivers/memory cards12:35
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: Indeed, I can't imagine someone taking action against Nokia but, all the same, that warning is there for Nokia to cover themselves in case of the possibility12:35
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kirmathere's maybe a chance to drive overvoltage to the memory card slot, or cause permanent LCD polarisation issues on the screen, if one really gets in to the kernel level12:39
kirmabut otherwise, it's hard to even imagine ways to cook up modern hardware12:39
kirmaI don't even know if either of those are practically possible nowadays though12:40
kirmaI'm not so much concerned about hardware damage though, but privacy breaches, loss of data, extra network expenses and loss of base software functionality12:41
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Stskeepskirma: on the other hand, isn't it the same with a netbook these days?12:42
Stskeepsor any 3g networked PC12:42
brbrbr"3g networked" ? its meant 10 Gbps NIC ?12:43
brbrbr /kidding12:43
kirmayes. but security expectations built by S60v3 capability model might be more intuitively expected from a phone form factor device you can use as phone...12:43
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Stskeepskirma: computer with phone capability? ;p12:44
VDVsxdanielwilms, ping12:44
kirmaI haven't heard of a single virus, or even mentionable trojan on S60v3 platform, all of it has been antivirus company hype. then again, the model itself has stagnated application development.12:44
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Stskeepskirma: it's a difficult challenge for sure12:46
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kirmaI'm just afraid that nokia puts itself in a vulnerable position, not legally, but regarding user perception... vulnerable, if someone really wants to exploit the weaknesses in the more relaxed capability model. but then again, that may well be countered by eased development and deployment of truly useful applications.12:47
Stskeepskirma: on the other hand it requires a rouge app to begin with12:48
brbrbrso, "in short", Nokia was predictibly beat Apple in both senses and truly deserve that. right ?12:49
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eichi_which app do you use for shopping-lists?12:50
Stskeepskirma: so what would you suggest would be useful? postinst run as non-root? :P12:53
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X-FadeVDVsx: Were there any errors visible when you promoted bluemaemo 0.3-7 ?13:01
VDVsxX-Fade, nop13:02
X-FadeVDVsx: Hmm ok, need to debug it more then.13:02
VDVsxwhat kind of errors ?13:02
X-FadeVDVsx: php errors visible or something like that.13:02
VDVsxX-Fade, I only had a issue with one of the packages that I sent, the builder complains about the lack of the tar.gz, after a couple of hours:)13:04
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X-FadeVDVsx: Used dput?13:06
VDVsxX-Fade, nop, webpage13:07
X-FadeVDVsx: Same package, multiple times?13:07
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VDVsxX-Fade, I sent it only once, a lower version was sent earlier. After the rejection, I sent it again and it built fine and fast, probably something was lost during the upload13:10
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danielwilmsVDVsx had lunch13:15
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VDVsxdanielwilms, about your submission for the Maemo summit, you have 'everyone' on the intended audience13:17
VDVsxit will be also suitable for users, or you will only target dev's13:17
X-FadeHmm I still need to add a proposal for a talk too. Crazy times...13:18
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crashanddiewhen's the summit?13:19
crashanddiestill in dam?13:19
VDVsxX-Fade, how to *not* kill the builder13:19
VDVsxcrashanddie, yes, 9-11 Oct13:19
X-FadeVDVsx: How to publish your software or something like that.13:20
danielwilmsVDVsx it should be like a maemo-introduction...starting with some intro and then presenting the developer mostly interesting for developers, but could be interesting for users too13:20
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crashanddiedanielwilms: don't assume13:21
crashanddiedanielwilms: it could also be interesting to koala bears, however, you don't put them in the intended audience. Be conservative, works a lot better than having a room full of people and half of them leaving because they're bored13:22
danielwilmscrashanddie: but the topic is quite clear, easy to see that it's mostly for more unexperienced developers who want to get an overview of the tools13:28
VDVsxso it's a developers topic, not a topic for everyone, I guess :)13:29
danielwilms:) yep...let me correct that :)13:30
crashanddiedanielwilms: take it from someone who does presentation for a living, you don't want to attract an audience that "may" be interested :)13:30
danielwilmscrashanddie: :) are right with that...I will change it ;)13:31
VDVsxcrashanddie, totally agree with you :)13:32
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danielwilmsVDVsx changed it...and it would take 10-12 min each tool + intro and end, if the time is there13:40
VDVsxdanielwilms, ok, thanks :)13:40
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pupniktablets are so awesome i half expect them to recharge in the sun from the tft display13:51
jophishthey do get mighty hot13:51
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Khertan_n810Hello everybody !14:06
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Khertan_n810morning lardman14:07
lardman|homehi Khertan_n81014:08
Khertan_n810what do you think of this :
lardman|homevery small and in French :)14:08
Khertan_n810this is a screenshot of the current mOrganize developpment version :)14:08
lardman|homeah right14:08
Khertan_n810of course as it s depends on the local string14:09
lardman|homeI know, was only joking14:09
lardman|homethough the text on the buttons is still in English14:09
Khertan_n810yep ... the button will not stay like there are now14:09
lardman|homeI've not really found an organiser I like on Maemo, but haven't looked for a year or so, so I'll have to take a look at this14:10
Khertan_n810it ll be icon14:10
Khertan_n810this is not yet finished14:10
Khertan_n810and so not yet avaiklabgle14:10
Khertan_n810but now it s really work well14:10
lardman|homeok, no rush, I've lived without this long :)14:10
Khertan_n810just need to finish ui14:11
Khertan_n810and the sync framework14:11
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Khertan_n810the db framework is ready ...14:11
Khertan_n810and doesn t use anymore a proprietary  db :)14:12
Khertan_n810now it s pure icalendar file :)14:12
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Khertan_n810yep i ve got the same mind than a blogger on maemo planet14:13
Khertan_n810about proprietary db14:14
lardman|homewhat was the db then?14:14
Khertan_n810there is no db, only parsing an .ics file14:15
lardman|homeno I meant before14:15
Khertan_n810an sqlite home made :)14:16
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Khertan_n810note can be text or draw :)14:22
Khertan_n810i was just a bitg disapointed when i see the leaked screenshot of the rx-51 with the calendar ...14:24
Khertan_n810as i think is there any interest to finish mOrganize14:24
Khertan_n810as there will are a calendar in Maemo 514:24
lardman|homewell being able to embed drawings is pretty cool14:25
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Khertan_n810when the first release will be ready, i ll implement also the camera picture feature too14:26
Khertan_n810like in mnotes14:26
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RST38hmoo all14:27
RST38hany news? =)14:27
Khertan_n810as i mainly use the camera to take picture of hand notes i write on paper14:27
lardman|homethen OCR into ascii?14:28
lardman|homehi RST38h14:28
Khertan_n810about what the n90014:28
RST38hheya lardman14:28
RST38hof course14:29
lardman|homeno, your taking pictures of notes; not OCR of course14:29
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Khertan_n810yep after i use BrainOcR to convert to ascii14:29
RST38hKhertan: if lcuk hears you, he will chastise you immediately, as you should be using liqbase :)14:29
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Khertan_n810yep maybe14:30
Khertan_n810but as i said to lcuk ... there is no python binding yet :)14:30
pupnikbrainocr os foss?14:30
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Khertan_at_officyep it s opensourced ... but BrainOcR source code isn't easy to understand14:31
Khertan_at_officit s implemented in every brain ...14:32
pupnikBRAINOCR.ARJ (Brainmaker) PCX reader. ?14:32
Khertan_at_officwork with many  language ... depends on user :)14:32
Khertan_at_officoh my god there is really a product nammed brainocr14:33
pupnikcan you take snapshot of your brainocr playground?14:33
Khertan_at_offici was talking of this implementation :
pupnikdo not send webcam pic of forehead :)14:34
pupniknow i get it14:34
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Khertan_at_officstill no news about Sponsorship for the summit ?14:40
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* RST38h did not apply for sponsorship, at least yet14:46
RST38hWill probably have to14:46
Khertan_at_offici ve apply ...14:48
RST38h(the guy is obviously a Nokian)14:50
VDVsxno way... :P14:50
VDVsxquoting the same website: "the Nokia N770 was launched at the Linux World Summit (2005), "14:51
RST38hBTW, what is this whole Conversations site? Some kind of corporate blog?14:54
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mgedminI remember a blog post by one ex-Nokian that was basically Internet is bad because everything is free, mobile networking is good because everybody has to pay for everything, the future belongs to the mobile14:54
VDVsxRST38h, ;)14:55
crashanddieVDVsx: shame a Nokian can't give the correct product name... It's Nokia 770, not N77014:55
X-FadeVDVsx: I will be playing with bluemaemo promotion a bit, don't worry when things look a bit weird in packages ;)14:55
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VDVsxcrashanddie, yeah, already leave a comment there14:56
VDVsxX-Fade, np :)14:57
RST38hmgedmin: Well, from a certain perspective he was right14:57
kirmanokia, like any company in the business, has unintended leaks and intended leaks. most of the time, they're supposed to be hard to tell from each other, although company attitude towards them is competely different.14:57
mgedminfrom a certain perspective anything can be made to look right14:58
RST38hmgedmin: except that mobile service companies seem to get ridiculous about their non-free nowadays14:58
RST38hmgedmin: i.e. they are basically destroying their own markets14:58
kirmaand in the case of nokia in helsinki capital area, for instance, there are public secrets, that anyone on the field and community can eventually work out in their mind based on small tidbits, but nobody cares to elaborate in detail to rest of the world.14:58
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RST38hmgedmin: recent example: half-broken website, no info whatsoever, 30 minutes on hold, then 20 minutes for them to figure out I do not have GPRS enabled on the account14:59
kirmaexplaining public secrets may be not the wisest thing for the career...14:59
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RST38hmgedmin: after that, they ask me to wait for 3 days, and pay euro10/MB14:59
kirmafuture career, even.14:59
RST38hmgedmin: I mean, with "service" like that, do they really expect anyone to use it?15:00
mgedminI'm sure they do15:00
mgedminand I'm sure people use services like that15:00
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mgedminbecause it's hard to find good alternatives15:00
RST38hmgedmin: Why?15:00
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mgedminlook at the US market: people pay twice as much as in europe, and get crappier service -- yet there isn't a general uprising against their mobile operators15:01
RST38hmgedmin: Well, even enables gprs immediately and does offer you some crude 30MB/mo for e3.50 option15:01
RST38hmgedmin: Notice though that once Apple wrestled unlimited data option from AT&T, the market just exploded15:01
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RST38hmgedmin: I.e. the demand is definitely there15:02
kirmathe fun part is how FCC doesn't do much even when operators have almost total control of devices, force people to long-term, expensive contracts, and limit the applications that can be used in networks...15:02
RST38hmgedmin: What I do not understand is why they can't just implement a nobrainer option like MTS.RU has15:02
kirma... and reason that this is necessary for the level of service. at the same time, most of europeans use whatever devices they want on whatever network they want, running almost any application they want on them, as long as they have money to pay for the reasonably short-change contracts.15:03
pupnik2years is common15:03
pupnikbut stores have umts/hsdpa orepaid data cards15:04
RST38hmgedmin: You pay $1/month + $0.12/MB of data which comes down to something like $10-$20/month for most people15:04
RST38hmgedmin: It is enabled by default, too15:04
kirmalike my professor used to say in lectures, and especially on sauna evenings, probably over decade ago, though: "... there in the telecommunications banana republic, you know, the united states..."15:05
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Khertan_at_officAnd i m ... <RST38h> mgedmin: I mean, with "service" like that, do they really expect anyone to use it? <<< they didn't expect that anyone use it, just people to pay it.15:08
RST38hSo is it basically set up to trick unsuspecting first time users into being charged $$$?15:09
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RST38hOh well, back to vacation15:14
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GAN800Conversations nuked MicroB15:26
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GAN800Talk about bloat.15:27
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* GAN800 shudders at capability security.15:27
pupnikpls speak noob thx15:27
pupnikconversations are what?15:28
GAN800pupnik, that Nokia blog.15:28
pupnikfrom that 70s show15:29
kirmagan800: in what sense? :)15:29
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GAN800kirma, in the sense that what makes Maemo Maemo is its desktop-PC level of openness.15:30
kirmaI understand that15:30
GAN800I've seen exactly how pleasant the Symbian model is and don't want it anywhere near Maemo.15:30
kirmaI'm not for closed ecosystem... I'm all for ability to support fine-grained permissions.15:31
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kirmaas a option that *could* be enabled by the paranoid, if nothing else.15:31
pupnikcan a commercial app get some help with drm+enc?15:31
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kirmathat is what antivirus does to great extent on modern windows desktops (or vista does for itself).15:32
* GAN800 wonders if Chad will call back today.15:33
GAN800I've also seen how well that works.15:33
pupnikjust saying i think some apps could become commercially feasible - apps that foss doesnt do well15:33
kirmawell, yes. there's no antidote for user stupidity :)15:33
GAN800A Little Snitch-style application might be interesting.15:33
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GAN800pupnik, Jaffa was discussing a daemon of some kind.15:34
pupnikon the other hand, maybe we'd be best off with that stuff faaaar away :)15:35
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pupnik"mission creep" and all that15:35
kirmaif I want to just install a software package from, say, url reached by web browser, is it possible for an average joe (even if that involves dialogs explaining that you should know what you're doing)?15:36
pupnikit is in current maemo15:36
GAN800Yes and no.15:36
GAN800Application Manager no longer installs .debs.15:36
GAN800But it could add a repository and install from there.15:37
kirmaor is there a possibility to give the user a public key that would be used to verify credentials in some package and thus allow all future installs from that source easier? it would be more secure in my opinion than relying on message that morons start to ignore anyway if it pops on the screen all the time :)15:37
kirmaI really haven't touched the tablets in ages, and probably never installed software without command line on them :I15:38
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kirmabut yeah yeah. the biggest "issue" in this is that I'm personally rather surprised by such trust-on-goodwill attitude adopted by nokia on future true mass market devices, instead of at least detecting what understandable capabilities each application tries to use.15:41
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kirmathe problem isn't I wouldn't like the openness, but that I fear the potential consequences when someone really gets nasty...15:42
adeusit's just one device compared to the hundreds of s60s, maybe the see how it goes15:43
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pupnikdefinitely should get some emus on it pronto15:46
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pupnikso the rich kids can show their iphone friends wnat gaming WITH buttons is like15:47
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rmrfchikJust installed maemo-sdk on debian. There are no applications in application manager16:04
rmrfchikexcept Crash Reporter, maemo-c-debug-tools and maemopad16:04
rmrfchikand event those 3 can't be installed :(16:05
rmrfchikhildon-application-manager[11179]: GLIB DEBUG ConIc - con_ic_connection_send_event(0x14d860, (null), (null), 1)16:05
rmrfchikany ideas?16:06
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lardman|homeinstalled or run?16:08
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lardman|homeah, my mistake16:11
lardman|homermrfchik: apt-get install?16:12
lardman|homeand make sure you have some repos available16:12
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rmrfchiklardman|home: heh, I suppose, all repos are ok in sources.list16:17
rmrfchikit's fresh installation16:17
rmrfchikI have microb-engine installed, but can't run microb from within maemo16:17
lardman|homermrfchik: There were some things you weren't able to run, not sure if that's one of them16:21
lardman|homemainly as some components were missing for the x86 target iirc16:22
lcuk2its not a complete user level emulator, but a way to  test code apis and libraries and installation16:22
lcuk2of code you have written16:23
rmrfchikI downloaded fbreader sources and compiled them16:25
rmrfchikwhen I trying to run, I got:16:25
rmrfchikI installed a skylight in my apartment...The people who live above me are16:25
lardman|homehmm, random error message :D16:25
rmrfchikwrong pasting. wait a sec ;)16:25
rmrfchikprocess 11232: D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id": No such file or directory16:25
rmrfchikhere is it ;)16:26
rmrfchikshould I generate uuid?16:26
qwerty12_N810Oh, just prefix the command with run-standalone.sh16:26
lardman|homeno idea from me16:26
lardman|homeah, good one qwerty12_N81016:26
VDVsxlardman|home, you finally left the front page of, lol16:27
rmrfchikqwerty12_N810: the same thing16:27
qwerty12_N810Have you done the " start"?16:27
rmrfchikI have maemo running in xephyr16:27
lardman|homeVDVsx: oh, my lucky streak must have ended16:27
lardman|homeVDVsx: or perhaps my karma has come back! :)16:28
rmrfchikand I'm trying to run FBreader from within the same console16:28
qwerty12_N810Everytime I've had that message, running the program with has always made that message go away, without fail16:28
rmrfchiklucky you16:28
qwerty12_N810But you may as well run dbus-uuidgen --ensure=/var/lib/dbus/machine-id if it isn't working16:28
VDVsxlardman|home, yeah, it was like a compensation for the missing karma;)16:28
pupnikmy leftside menus disappeared - apps, contacts, etc16:28
rmrfchikis it oK: hildon-desktop[11164]: GLIB WARNING ** hildon-1 - Icon theme lookup for icon failed!16:29
lardman|homehmm, no my karma is not back yet16:29
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pupnikcan i run smth to restart that "start menu"?ß16:29
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qwerty12_N810pupnik: kill hildon-desktop? =)16:29
VDVsxlardman|home, none ? they said that only -dev is missing atm16:30
pupniki need the maemo beginner track :)16:30
rmrfchikfbreader starts, open window and exits16:30
Stskeepslardman|home: msg16:30
pupnikoki i try :)16:30
lardman|homeStskeeps: my client is playing up and not showing messages16:31
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lardman|homeVDVsx: no, I have some, just not all16:32
lardman|homeVDVsx: sounds about right then as most of my posts are to -developers16:32
pupnikthat was bad.  like seeing the light after death16:34
lardman|homebbiam, need to restart client16:34
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lardman|homeIs there a wiki page of Summit Accommodation yet? I saw Quim's post to Talk, but just thinking about people choosing what type of accommodatioin they;d prefer, etc16:40
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X-Fadelardman|home: I'm googling a bit, but haven't found much yet.16:45
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Jaffalardman|home: Not that I've seen16:46
JaffaX-Fade: I'm going to try and use the accept/reject sponsorship page at some point today16:46
lardman|homeWould it be worth starting one? As some people are wanting hostels, some single, some double rooms, etc16:46
VDVsxlardman|home, starting point:
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Corsachmhm, do you people use the omap3-enabled qemu found at ?16:51
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lardman|homethis is last year's:
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lcuk2didnt we get to stay in the hilton last year16:54
Corsacto the Hildon16:55
lcuk2and c-base very graciously supplied caviar  and champers16:55
lcuk2jaffa, works?  feedback? (in pm please) :D16:56
lardman|homeMy wiki editing isn't the best, so I'll probably manage a list, but a table might be better16:57
lardman|homee.g. Name/nick/date arriving/date leaving/type of accommodation/sponsored or not/type of room (single, double, shared)/etc.?16:58
VDVsxlardman|home, like the one created for the mozdev event16:59
lardman|homeah, I knew there was one somewhere16:59
lardman|homeyep, sounds suitable16:59
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lardman|homeok I've added a very clunky table17:15
lardman|homeif people think it's suitable, feel free to add/modify it17:16
VDVsxseems fine ->
keesjlooks good17:22
lardman|homeI';ve added it to the Talk thread too17:23
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JaffaBah. I wish the SDK had Web Runtime already included. I want to play with some web mash-ups (Tube info etc.)17:25
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VDVsxJaffa, you can use WRT outside the sdk:)17:26
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JaffaVDVsx: Is there a Linux version of something for it?17:30
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VDVsxJaffa, nop, you need a s60 emulator for testing propose, afaik, or a device that support wrt :(17:32
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sjgadsbyHuh. I thought my karma was higher than 550.17:41
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VDVsxsjgadsby, it's around 1000 isn't it ? (ml issues probably)17:47
Jaffasjgadsby: ?17:47
Jaffasjgadsby: See final comments. Karma for mailing lists was destroyed, and it's taking a week or two to come back. Doing it atomically was, apparently, not possible.17:49
VDVsxhumm, the profile thumbs up/down gone :)17:49
sjgadsbyVDVsx, Jaffa: Actually, it looks as though all my karma from t.m.o disappeared. Probably because I never updated the URL from ITt. I'll do so now.17:49
VDVsxwow, in fact I thought I had less karma :P17:50
VDVsxsjgadsby, plus the ML issue17:51
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Jaffasjgadsby: ITT URLs should still work.17:52
* Jaffa and X-Fade did a bit of a tidy-up17:52
lardman|homeyeah mine does still17:52
* Jaffa 's too :-)17:52
JaffaAnyone who was invalid had it unset. Any we could directly match on email address was auto-matched. Any outstanding will be getting an email if their tmo account makes them eligible to vote17:53
VDVsxwow, Quim reached the 3000 points17:53
lardman|homeX-Fade: you should probably change the text in the profile pages from "itt thanks" to "Talk thanks" or similar17:54
lardman|homehmm, I've been a member since the 1st of Jan 1970 :)17:55
X-Fadelardman|home: Yes, although that is used in the code too so it is not that trivial.17:55
lardman|homeah fair enough, it makes enough sense as is17:55
VDVsxlardman|home, your fathers sign up for you before you born :)17:59
X-FadeDiscussion imports will be finished today probably. Will recalc karma tomorrow morning.17:59
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lardman|homecheers X-Fade18:04
lardman|homehmm, I need a 4th monitor it would appear18:06
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lcuk2lardman|home, for home or for work18:07
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lardman|homehow, but I'm working from home18:08
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lcuk2so one monitor for code, one for results, one for irc and one for?18:08
lardman|home2 for results, lots of images18:09
lardman|homeplus it makes the room lighter18:10
lardman|homeand warmer18:10
lcuk2CRT suntan18:10
lardman|homeLCD not, I don't have a desk that strong18:10
lardman|homeI really can't type18:11
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X-FadeHmm I now notice that a lot of people send their python apps to the builder with i386 arch.18:16
X-FadeShouldn't this be 'all'?18:16
qwerty12_N810If it's all, then the armel builder has no need to build it18:17
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Yeah any of the builders should be enough.18:18
X-FadeI guess I need to check the .dsc too when doing the log parsing.18:19
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X-FadeBecause there is says: Architecture: all18:21
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VDVsxX-Fade, some python apps can have C bindings or other stuff that need to be compiled, that's the case for bluemaemo18:22
X-FadeVDVsx: Sure, but those need to have a correct arch.18:23
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javispedroI did submit a All package to the diablo autobuilder (opengfx) and it sent it to both i386 and armel18:27
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VDVsxjavispedro, different repos, but the same package on both18:29
javispedrosame "All" package on both, isn't that ok?18:30
wazdI have some extrordinary news that can collapse the Universe :)18:32
javispedroThe N900 uses Windows CE?18:32
VDVsxjavispedro, if it's python/script based, yes18:32
wazdJust listen: Eldar told that Microsoft is ready to write Office for Maemo18:32
qwerty12_N810javispedro: don't be silly, everyone knows it's gonna use Android! :p18:32
javispedroVDVsx, if the exact same binary package does not work in all archs, then it should be "any" architecture instead of all.18:32
javispedro(AFAIK :P)18:33
javispedrowazd, lol :)18:33
qwerty12_N810wazd: Eldar tells a lot these days :)18:33
Corsacyeah, arch:all means the same .deb can be used on all arches18:33
Corsacwhy arch:any means it needs a rebuild18:33
Corsac(and arch: i386 means it'll only work on i386)18:33
wazdqwerty12_N810: yep, wrong pills I guess :)18:34
javispedrowazd, url? :)18:34
qwerty12_N810Although, wasn't there something about Microsoft doing Silverlight for Maemo, or did that turn out to be BS?18:35
wazdjavispedro: it's in his LJ18:35
wazdjavispedro: in n900 discussion18:35
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javispedroin russian, then?18:36
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brbrbrim translate to english if anyone need it18:39
javispedroi think it's this one18:39
javispedro(check first answer)18:39
brbrbron mobile-review.com18:39
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brbrbrabout possible availability of "office for linuz" ? :)18:41
javispedroautomated translation: "and is Microsoft ready  to rewrite office under linux huh?" eldar's answer: "ready"18:41
brbrbr&wondering about OS'es  advacements :)18:41
VDVsxgoogle translator is preaty good for RUS-> ENG18:41
javispedroI was going to say the opposite ,but hey, translation is not my area ;P18:42
VDVsxcan easily understand everthing, so far18:42
qwerty12_N810I'm not sure, though, why MS would do a half-assed attempt on their own Windows Mobile but, yet, do a "proper" job for Linux. Of course, we may be seeing the same shit from WinMo on Linux...18:42
brbrbrno, there is just GUESSING about availability :)18:42
brbrbrand no "ready" is root post, not answer :)18:43
javispedrowell, the "new Microsoft" did write a kmod recently.18:43
javispedrobrbrbr, yes, sorry, check parent post of the URL I sent you18:43
qwerty12_N810That allows Linux to run faster in Win 7 using Virtual PC. Whoopie.18:44
brbrbri see, sorry18:44
javispedroqwerty12_N810, but I definitely see them writing gtk code allowing them "extend their .docx monopoly", in a few years of course.18:44
brbrbrLinux in Win ? dont get point of that :)18:44
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: *nod*18:45
brbrbrbtw win mobile itself is quite mobile, too18:45
javispedrowell, maybe not gtk but qt/javascript/whatever, or maybe not .docx but .docx2 or .docxxx18:45
javispedrobut you get the idea ;)18:46
shiznebitso N900 is 100% OSS18:46
qwerty12_N810Yes, I don't think ".docxxx" would be a proposed format. The extension is longer than 3 characters. ;)18:46
javispedroshiznebit, for a start, it does not have free 3d drivers.18:46
brbrbrand desktop windeos too, btw, thats why Microsoft fire half on WM team and netbook book spik. to prevent ARM HAL birth for desktop OS, under shreholders pressure18:46
shiznebitwell thats expected18:46
brbrbrwindeos==windows, sry18:46
shiznebitPowerVR afterall18:47
javispedroqwerty12_N810, well, .docx is 4 chars long already, causing all kinds of breackage in apps still in use by now ;)18:47
javispedro(ugly unmaintained apps, all has to be said)18:47
javispedro.htm & .jpg. I've seen full of them.18:47
terriblepythonthere are a couple 3+ char file-exts :)18:48
qwerty12_N810I was being my usual self...18:48
qwerty12_N810But.. :)18:48
javispedroyeah, and I hope the app I am talking about dies a silent death.18:48
* lcuk2 commonly uses filenames with long extensions to annoy windows18:50
lcuk2or sometimes even uses files without extension18:50
shiznebiti dont think the carriers are gonna be thrilled about a Phone with root and VOIP cabapility18:50
qwerty12_N810Why? I thought you <3 Windows? :)18:50
lcuk2i like the WM18:50
lcuk2i dont like the os18:51
shiznebiti cant see how the N900 will be ever subsidized18:51
lcuk2give me linux with XP WM ontop please :)18:51
qwerty12_N810You're a coder - do it yourself :p18:51
javispedroshiznebit, well, a carrier rejecting a nokia phone...18:51
lcuk2(and make sure it runs visual basic kthxbye18:51
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: afaict silverlight isn't bs, it's just vaporware18:52
lcuk2moonlight is the linux implementation isnt it18:52
lcuk2in assoc. with novel?18:52
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: i'm pretty sure it's still in the cards, just thankfully not ready18:52
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Ah... thanks18:52
timeless_mbplcuk2: there's no guarantee it's the moonlight impl18:52
javispedrolcuk2, yeah, oss but totally useless (binary codecs)18:52
timeless_mbpi have no idea18:52
timeless_mbpbut am glad not to be worrying about it for at least another day :)18:52
timeless_mbphopefully many many more days :)18:52
brbrbrSL is PR-BS for existed things. like "clod computing" for distributed systesm, existed before Microsoft itself[google "GRID" ]18:53
timeless_mbpflash (and half a dozen other plugins) already give me more than enough headaches18:53
lcuk2awww but timeless, you could get to run your cross ref tool using all the .net framework goodness18:53
* lcuk2 throws up a little18:53
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: IE6 rocks18:53
timeless_mbpfwiw, people should keep in mind that ms did port IE to Solaris and HPUX18:53
qwerty12_N810(Before anyone thinks about beheading me ;))18:54
javispedrowith half of windows, if the rumours are to be believed.18:54
timeless_mbplcuk2: actually, i could cross reference flash, but i was never able to cross reference opera18:54
timeless_mbpor rhapsody18:54
timeless_mbpit depends on whether we get binary drops or source drops and build ourselves18:54
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timeless_mbpanyway, given that ms was able to port com (and does do that today for OSX)18:54
timeless_mbpit's likely that ms could whenever it felt like it (w/in 18months) port another com based app (office, ie, ...) to another platform18:55
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timeless_mbpbut whether ms would choose to do so, depends on what their business interests are18:55
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lcuk2i think at some point soon ms will have to bite the bullet :)18:56
javispedrowell, they have what is by all means a "code army". So even if Office was full of x86-ism (they say it is) they could easily port it in a year.18:56
lcuk2even if its not directly maemo, it may be android or one of the desktop oses18:56
infobotjavispedro meant: well, they have what is by all means a "coder army". So even if Office was full of x86-ism (they say it is) they could easily port it in a year.18:56
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* timeless_mbp ponders18:57
lcuk2office isnt full of x86isms - its the windowsisms that are the kicker18:57
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timeless_mbpyeah i'd be relatively shocked if office was full of x86isms18:57
brbrbrno, at some part is it. like kbd interface and etc18:57
javispedrolcuk2, there was some msdn blog post telling about how the excel 2007 bug was caused by bad x86 assembly code18:57
timeless_mbpfor a while windows supported half a dozen or more os's18:57
timeless_mbpand alpha support lasted quite a while18:58
brbrbrbut in few places. just shortcuts for speedup18:58
timeless_mbpalpha was nice in that it kept people honest18:58
lcuk2javispedro, thats likely a tiny fraction of the majority18:58
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lcuk2and the rest depends on windows api18:58
javispedrotimeless_mbp, was office ported?18:58
timeless_mbpto alpha?18:58
javispedroor something non x86.18:58
lcuk2dunno, look - it was at least on mac18:58
javispedrowindows was, for sure.18:59
lcuk2before x8618:59
timeless_mbpOFF97: Office for Alpha Chip Error Vba332.DLL Could Not Be Found18:59
timeless_mbpWD97: Word for Alpha Crashes Converting Some WP Graphics18:59
javispedroOk, I get the hint ;)18:59
timeless_mbpjavispedro: well, i don't know how much Office code if any is shared between OS X and Win3218:59
mandarais there a maemo fremantle virtual image somewhere?19:00
javispedrotimeless_mbp, those kb articles make reference to the FX!3219:00
javispedrofwiw, that is a x86 emulator!!19:00
* brbrbr remember MIPS WInNT ports :)19:00
* timeless_mbp nods19:00
timeless_mbpbrbrbr: i do too19:00
brbrbrand NEC and Acer Workstations :-)19:01
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timeless_mbpUpgrade from   Microsoft Word for Alpha Systems v. 2.619:01
timeless_mbpit clearly was a product19:01
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javispedroyep, parts of it using a x86 emulator, probably compatibilty with x86 office addons or something19:02
timeless_mbpmost likely they just didn't port the converter/importer19:02
timeless_mbpbut anyway, that was 1998 or so, so it was maintained for at least a bit19:03
brbrbrfor particular format. or dont' finish it yet19:03
javispedrooffice 97 wasn't ported, I am reading a forum post about someone using the FX!32 to launch the x86 installer19:03
timeless_mbpwell, 2.6 clearly was :)19:04
javispedrobut there are clear references to "native Office for Alpha" between 97 and 200019:04
javispedroso I guess there was indeed a Office 2000 release19:04
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* Luke-Jr wonders why most programs can't be staticly compiled from one bytecode language to another19:06
Luke-Jrother than the obvious thunking, I mean19:06
javispedroyou mean, like Java ;) ?19:07
Luke-Jrcould probably have a or such with the replacement syscalls19:07
Luke-Jrjavispedro: Java bc -> native is possible19:07
javispedroit's called AoT19:07
Luke-Jrbut why not, for example, x86 bc -> native19:07
javispedrocause Java bytecode is designed for portability, and not for easy of hw implementation/legacy issues19:07
Luke-Jractually it's called GCJ19:07
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: Silverlight for Maemo comes from an older Nokia press release19:08
qwerty12_N810Ah, right, not MS, thanks19:08
qwerty12_N810(the press release)19:09
javispedro"Nokia will also make Silverlight available on its Series 40 devices and its Internet Tablet devices, the companies are expected to announce Tuesday."19:09
javispedrodid something happen on that tuesday?19:09
timeless_mbpit was announced19:10
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divide_by_zerohi. any SDK+ "experts" around?19:10
javispedroso then it's vaporware :)19:10
divide_by_zeroI'm trying the manual's first test, but I get the mysterious error:  fakeroot: preload library not found, aborting.19:10
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javispedrodivide_by_zero, other than reinstalling, I dunno. Google shows lots of hits.19:14
divide_by_zerojavispedro: some of the hits are my message in the forum :]19:17
javispedrothen you have 1179 other hits to look at ;)19:17
javispedroeither way, I remember sb2 came with its own fakeroot, sb2 -R iirc.19:18
divide_by_zeroyeah, I tried the -R too...19:20
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divide_by_zerosame message comes up...19:21
divide_by_zerobut then there is the more informative ERROR: object '' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.19:21
divide_by_zeromaybe I can link some file?...19:21
javispedroyou are using amd64 or ia32?19:22
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divide_by_zerohmmm that is a very good question. I am inside a ia32 chroot in an AMD64 box... :]19:24
JaffaProper press-release is:
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Jaffajavispedro: ^19:25
slonopotamusdivide_by_zero, total failure :)19:26
javispedro"Microsoft Silverlight availability for Nokia Series 40 devices and Nokia Internet tablets will be confirmed later." heh.19:26
qwerty12_N810Was S40 even possible?19:26
slonopotamusjavispedro, someone finally managed to compile moonlight for arm? :)19:27
javispedrothere is mono for arm afaik, but moonlight is useless.19:28
javispedrothe codecs are binary, for a start.19:28
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javispedroalso, "later" = "a year and still waiting for the announcement".19:29
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divide_by_zerothe only thing that ever made me consider using silverlight to date is photosynth19:32
VDVsxbahh, Eldar's todays leak was canceled -> :P19:35
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javispedromicrosoft is nearer to write gtk code than I though19:39
Jaffajavispedro: Oh?19:40
javispedrothe moonlight codecs pack (part microsoft code) already links with glib.19:40
javispedro(this is continuing the discussion we were having here minutes ago)19:41
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VDVsxnah, they will switch to Qt :)19:41
VDVsxnext office version will be made with Qt :P19:41
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VDVsxwill be a good move, they could sell it for win, mac, linux and use some of the code for S60 and maemo ;)19:44
* javispedro would pay for that MS file with #include <glib.h> at the top ;)19:45
javispedrowould be cool to see :)19:46
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javispedro"funny" would be a better word actually.19:46
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VDVsxjavispedro, , how much ? :P19:49
javispedronil, of course :D19:50
VDVsxbahh, ;)19:51
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javispedrohehe :P even my untrained eyes can tell that is a copy :)19:52
javispedrocheap copy.19:52
GAN800lardman|home, Samsung 2343bwx.19:55
lardman|homeGAN800: ?20:00
lardman|homeah, a screen I should buy :)20:01
lardman|homeseems pretty dear to me though20:01
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mgedminhey! I just upgraded openssh on my tablet and now I can't log in using my public key20:15
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VDVsxmgedmin, I've also problems with the last version :(20:17
mgedmingrr! apt-cache policy is useless for distinguishing extras from extras-devel (and from the SDK repo)20:18
VDVsxmaybe the same problem20:20
mgedminmost likely20:20
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mgedminVDVsx: I owe you a beer20:20
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javispedrolo, I had that ssh problem too, I think i patched the ssh source instead :P20:29
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javispedrookey, gonna send something to the autobuilder. hope it works _perfectly fine_ or I'm gonna sue you all ;)20:32
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Stskeepsyay court20:36
GadgetoidThe out of the box N810 experience is better than I remember20:36
GadgetoidOnly took 20 attempts to pair with my wireless keyboard!20:36
mgedminis it safe to rm things under ~/.modest/cache ?20:37
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javispedrodamn the diablo queue has 3 packages, it'll be a while before I can call my lawyer :(20:38
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: Fremantle Transmission build needs killing, please (and I have no idea why :))20:38
javispedroqwerty12_N810, see you in court ;)20:39
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Currently running?20:39
* qwerty12_N810 packs his bags20:39
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: yessir20:39
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: It is just building slowly because the builder is building a few large packages, I think.20:40
qwerty12_N810Ah, OK, thanks...20:40
qwerty12_N810I thought I fucked up again20:40
X-Fadepyside and json-glib are building too. And pyside is quite large.20:40
Stskeepsyay pyside20:40
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X-FadeAh only a load of 7.5 on the builder ;)20:42
* javispedro envisions a Beowulf cluster of wsod'd n770 building packages.20:42
qwerty12_N810Think Transmission uses -j4...20:42
crashanddieX-Fade: I can arrange that for you if you want me to20:42
crashanddiejavispedro: 770, there's no such thing as a n77020:42
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: -j4 is the default setting.20:43
qwerty12_N810Yep, and the rules files takes advantage of it ;)20:43
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* mgedmin upgrades to fennec beta 320:45
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mgedminstill crap20:48
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mgedminnot as bad as it used to be20:50
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VDVsxmgedmin, slow ? or other complains :P20:57
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mgedminnot pleasant to use20:58
mgedminmostly because it's not as responsive as I'd like20:58
mgedminraises the urge to throw my n810 against a wall20:59
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VDVsxmgedmin, don't forget that you are using a *old* device :)21:00
mgedminthings like you try to scroll down while zoomed in to a comfortable reading size, and it suddenly decides you're scrolling to a side, hides all the text, replaces it with a checkerboard pattern, shows controls on the right side21:00
mgedminthen immediately hides controls on the right side, shows the location bar on top, then hides the location bar on top, then replaces the checkerboard with a zoomed-out full-page view21:00
mikkov_X-Fade: what's on your feature todo list for
mgedminthere ain't a device made that's new enough for fennec21:00
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mgedminI can see how the UI could be very pleasant to use, if only it were responsive enough21:01
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Luke-Jrneed to use Konqueror and KDE 4.321:01
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terriblepythonis there a way to run a python script that uses a depricated module (rlcompleter)?21:02
mgedminin what sense is it deprecated?21:03
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terriblepythonit says its depricated, and  the script doesnt run, so I'm guessing it is not in maemo python2.521:05
terriblepython"module not found " etc.21:05
mgedminah, not found21:06
mgedminI'd look at the script and see if it relies heavily on rlcompleter21:06
mgedminmaybe it's easier to make it work without it21:06
terriblepythonI does rely heavily on it :(21:06
Stskeepsit might be seperated out from core python21:07
mgedminmaybe there's a package that ships rlcompleter?21:07
mgedminit is part of the standard library, after all21:07
terriblepythonI've searched all over, doesnt seem like it21:07
terriblepythonbut it would be awesome if I were incorrect21:07
mgedminit's a pure python module21:07
mgedminyou could always copy it from a random python 2.5 distribution and put it on the python path (eg. in the same directory as your script)21:08
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terriblepythonOh, you can do that?21:08
terriblepythonI'll try right freaking now!21:09
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terriblepython<-- python noob21:09
VDVsxterriblepython, and you should report a bug against pyMaemo, since it's a standard library module21:10
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* wiretapped copied rlcompleter to his n800 from a normal python install and it works great21:22
* wiretapped pities the fool who uses python -i without rlcompleter21:22
wiretappedespecially on a touchscreen21:23
slonopotamuswhat about ipython?21:23
wiretappedtab completion ftw21:23
* Corsac uses ipython21:23
wiretappedis there ipython for maemo?21:23
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X-Fademikkov_: Build logs, list packages per maintainer, list packages with broken dependencies, security update promotion.21:24
slonopotamuswiretapped, easy_install ipython :P21:24
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X-Fademikkov_: And maybe tapping into bugzilla and display some bug statics/info etc.21:26
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mikkov_X-Fade: I have couple of simple requests: show changelog, show copyright file, links to source files21:36
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X-Fademikkov_: I guess I need to implement more parsing then ;)21:36
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guardianplease, what's the common way to get a debug build when using autotools? define a "--with-debug" or alike configure option or else?21:42
keesjI use export CFLAGS=-g21:42
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keesjwhat is a good editor to program glib (something that helps creating those OBJECT marco's)21:45
javispedrokeesj: Vala.21:46
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guardianthx keesj21:48
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pfrugalis there update for the N810 past 43-7?22:03
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slonopotamuspfrugal, no and will never be22:04
RST38hmoo all22:04
Stskeepsexcept for community SSU or Mer, yeah22:05
wiretapped43-7 is perfect, obviously.22:05
* wiretapped wonders why other OSes never get done updating22:05
slonopotamusmodest is crap22:05
slonopotamusmicrob is terribly slow22:06
RST38htell us all something new22:06
RST38htear is also on the slow side and its attempts at kinetic scrolling are usually fatal22:07
slonopotamus# apt-cache search tear22:07
wiretappeddoes anyone know what browser the n900 is shipping with?22:07
slonopotamusmplayerplug-in - MPlayer-Plugin for MicroB/Tear/Midori/Webkit22:07
slonopotamusStskeeps, what repo is it in?22:07
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: you don't know Tear?22:07
konttorihow big is pyside + qt?22:08
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slonopotamusStskeeps, i know that it isn't in extras22:08
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slonopotamusjohnsq, morning22:09
pfrugalStskeeps, is SSU or Mer stable?22:10
slonopotamuspfrugal, there aint any ssu. it's only an unlikely-to-happen idea22:11
slonopotamusbeyound 43-7, i mean22:12
infobotslonopotamus meant: beyond 43-7, i mean22:12
Stskeepsno, not unlikely, just noone taking up the task and following through22:12
slonopotamus= unlikely22:12
slonopotamusi'd bet on mer, not maemo :)22:13
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mavhcis there an easy way to share the clipboard in maemo with windows?22:29
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johnsqputty supports cut&paste22:31
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mavhcusually I want to send urls from one to the other22:32
RST38hAh god, they are already discussing N92022:33
RST38h(why 920?)22:33
johnsqmavhc: send a email from one to another.22:33
StskeepsRST38h: it's the octal representation of the actual number of the devil22:34
johnsqRST38h: because N900 has many design bugs, and 920 is the bug fix release22:34
RST38hSts: ORLY?22:34
RST38hNo, it cannot be octal representation as 9>722:34
Stskeepsoh, wait, 920..22:34
* RST38h especially likes the rumor that RX-56 will be based on Atom22:34
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kirmapst38h: who is discussing?22:35
RST38hJust to increase the amount of madness in this world, we should all work on perpetrating this rumor22:35
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RST38hkirma. talk.maemo.org22:35
qwerty12_N810RST38h: I knew there was a reason why the autobuilder does i386 builds too! ;)22:35
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: read my planet post on cross-compilation btw?22:36
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RST38hqwerty: What if it starts doing PPC builds? =)22:36
mavhcI knew the atom was old tech, didn't know it was 38622:36
qwerty12_N810RST38h: then we all scream :p22:36
RST38hThat is because Atom never was 38622:36
RST38hAnd Menlow chipset mentioned on talk is
mavhcmeh, QT22:37
RST38hIf Nokia releases an Atom based tablet, it will most surely NOT have Menlow22:37
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: no, although I could do with reading something...22:37
mavhcwhat next, a nokia netbook?22:37
RST38hqwerty: ...and start saving oil for coolant? =)22:37
Stskeepsmavhc: what rock have you been hiding under? :P22:37
johnsqmavhc: already announced, when apple makes phones, nokia make laptops22:38
qwerty12_N810RST38h: hehe22:38
RST38hqwerty: BTW, that 54.2% XBox return percentage was apparently close to being true22:39
RST38hAt least, Microsoft has not tried denying it22:39
mavhcover 40% of xboxes don't suck!22:39
mavhcI've been painting my rock in sarcasm blue22:40
qwerty12_N810RST38h: interesting... they got the first xbox right, wonder where they went wrong with the 360 :)22:40
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RST38hqwerty: Why wonder? The answer is known22:41
RST38hqwerty: They made an error using PPC and disregarding its thermal envelope22:41
mavhcthey tried to put 2 mac pros into a tiny box22:42
RST38hqwerty: Sony made the same mistake (enriching IBM in the process)22:42
johnsqRST38h: wanted to say the same, the new slim only need 230 Watt.22:43
qwerty12_N810Ah... Well, at least I know that my Wii is safe from overheating... it's not the most powerful console out there...22:43
RST38hSo, there is huge chance the next consoles from both companies will be x86 based22:43
RST38hjohnsq: "only" ? :)22:43
johnsqRST38h: yes reduced, compared to the old22:43
mavhcxbox was x8622:44
RST38hqwerty: With Wii, Nintendo stayed conservative, they simply took [unpopular] GameBox and pumped specs a little bit22:44
RST38hmavhc: We are talking about XBox360, it is PPC based22:44
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Shame the games still suck :)22:44
mavhcwho has time for games, I need to irc, rss and watch torrents22:45
qwerty12_N810Wii Fit is probably the best thing I've got22:45
RST38hqwerty: Well, I personally can't play anything younger than SNES stuff (and similar GBA stuff)22:45
RST38hqwerty: Just do not see the point22:45
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qwerty12_N810It'd be hard for me to say the same (for the SNES) at least considering I was less than a year old when it came out in Europe :p22:47
mavhcif everyone bought an xbox we could bankrupt microsoft22:49
RST38hand speed up global warming22:50
qwerty12_N810...and increase leechers of xbox torrents22:50
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slonopotamusMacer, Macer, you're not in #gentoo-embedded anymore. i just happily built cups-1.3.10-r223:17
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pupnik_nice job23:23
pupnik_tree killer23:23
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javispedrobah, slashdot grabbing a five years old story and running it like if it was news23:54
Mekso what's new? :)23:55
javispedrowhat's worse is that now everyone is going to run it too23:55
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nedkoi have a (stupid) question :)23:55
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nedkoi want maemo device that ca act as gsm (not 3g)23:56
nedkoi've read about nokia n800 n810 and n90023:56
nedkobut they are described as internet tablets23:56
nedkoand i'm confused23:56
javispedrono. they're not phones.23:57
Mekwell, n900 will be23:57
nedkoso i'll wait some more years to get a real personal device :]23:58
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javispedro[start flame about pdas not needing phones]23:59
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