IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-08-22

woglindeShadowJK this will come when the kernel is open00:00
ShadowJKit only needs a tun/tap driver00:00
Maceroh yeah00:01
Macerback in maemo400:01
ShadowJKand uh, libc00:01
Maceris there a device that isnt marketed as an "internet tablet"00:01
Macerthat is the same size as the n8x0?00:02
ShadowJKthere are "multimedia computers" too ;p00:02
ShadowJKthey're smaller00:02
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ShadowJKand they can print, but the screens are useless for actually editing anything ;)00:02
Macerslonopotamus: gave up on gentoo00:03
Macercant easily get the qwerty working00:03
Macerin X00:03
AStormbecause you didn't copy the proper special keymaps00:05
AStormreally, there's a whole bunch of platform stuff that has to be added00:05
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MacerAStorm: gentoo doesnt have the kernel or X patch for fn key use00:07
Macerso i would have to track one down00:07
Maceror come up with an oddball keymap00:07
Macereither way00:08
Macerfuck it00:08
Macernot worth working on this piece of shit anymore, i will just suck it up and carry a netbook or my touch book when i get i00:08
AStormthere's no need for X patch00:09
AStormjust the keymaps00:09
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AStormthe usual Nokia ones00:09
Maceri tried that00:09
AStormsetxkbmap messes up the modifiers00:10
Macerdoesnt work because gentoo cant use the fn key00:10
AStormhave to add them manually00:10
AStormsure it can00:10
Maceri did00:10
AStormit's seen by xev00:10
Macerused xmodmap00:10
AStormbut is not bound to a modifier00:10
AStormthe key id is different than in Nokia keymaps00:11
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pupnik_i'm getting carpal tunnel from this dpad00:11
pupnik_need to add "wasd" as alternative dpad00:12
AStormso use the touchscreen more00:12
AStormor are you playing tetris too much? ;P00:12
pupnik_trying to catch the rat-statue in CT atm00:12
javispedrooh, blocks can actually be played from the touchscreen.00:12
pupnik_getting a blister00:12
AStormhey, I didn't get the CT from OpenTyrian00:13
AStormso you sure must suck ;)00:13
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pupnik_what is CT in OpenTyrian?00:14
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lcukqwerty12_N810, was it easy adding bluetooth send to conboy00:44
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Maceri am in mer00:58
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kfx17:00 -!- igagis [] has quit [K-lined]01:59
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lardmanevening all01:59
b-man16hello lardman02:00
lardmanhi b-man1602:00
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lcukhi folks \o02:01
* lcuk does a lardman02:01
lardmanyou off then? :p02:01
lardmannope, not quick enough! :D02:02
lcukhave you had a nice lazy week?02:02
lardmanyeah, not too bad, playing Far Cry2, getting up late, going to bed late, ideal :)02:03
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lardmangetting a bit bored of the computer now though, think I should crack on with the barcode stuff02:03
lcuksounds good02:03
lardmanesp after seeing a datamatrix barcode for the url to pay my roadtax today :)02:03
lardmanyeah, another couple of hundred quid gone02:04
lardmanat least it's not gone up too much, only a tenner or so02:04
lcukyeah, that part i dont mind02:04
lcukits showing you info you cannot read ;)02:04
lcukand especially when they have to say "goto url by zapping this"02:05
lardmanwell would be cool to scan it and save my typing the url in :)02:05
lardmanesp if I could do char recog and get it to type the id number in too :)02:05
lcukyeah, even bigger shame we know no1 with even remotely that kind of experience02:06
lardmanI'm learning02:06
lardmanhave to do some of that sort of stuff for work atm02:06
lardmanthough it doesn't work too well my correlation method02:06
lcukwe are all learning :)02:06
lardmanI may have to buy a book on the subject02:07
lardmangive me something to read as the nights close in02:07
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divide_by_zerocant we throw everything at the handwritting recognition program? :)02:07
lardmanis there an api?02:08
lcukthats stroke based02:08
lcukand from my experiments crap02:08
divide_by_zerobut there02:08
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* lcuk writes t and l similar02:08
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lcukor rather, it thinks all my t's are ls02:08
lcukand i cant change em02:08
divide_by_zerobut there's a couple of very nice free ocr programs out there...02:09
lcukand thats where lardman could look02:09
lardmanah, but the fun is in learning about it by trying yourself :)02:09
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lardmanthough next week I will look at how one's supposed to do OCR and implement something that defo works02:10
lardmanin MATLAB though, not tablet based02:10
lcuklardman, if you think - the ocr stuff was created on computers much less than ours :P02:10
lcukthey didnt have matlab02:10
lardmansure, I just need to do my data processing in MATLAB02:11
divide_by_zeroi think neural networks are still one of the best ways to make the final classification...02:11
lcukeasier to play there02:11
lardmanI'm not fond, not analytical enough for me02:11
lcukeugh @ neural nets02:11
lardmanbut horses for courses and all that :)02:12
divide_by_zerocmon, it's a classic!... :)02:12
lcukyeah, a set of related weight particles able to communicate and group themselves together and interact in a shared experience will never work02:12
lardmanwell it does, but you can never know how... :)02:13
lcukvisual nets are nicer02:13
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lcukand understandable02:13
lcukyou can see the propogation of information02:13
lardmansod nets, nice equations are good02:13
divide_by_zeroif you make a nice program to vectorize the characters maybe you can try bayesian decision trees, more analytical and sound...02:14
lcukplay with acceleration and gravity and forces and stuff then :P02:14
lcukdivide_by_zero, everything i write on my tablet is vectorized02:14
lardmandivide_by_zero: the orientation is always the same, but the letters are noisy, am trying correlation in the first instance02:14
lcukis this the 100k vid still?02:15
lcuk:D cool02:15
* lcuk is blown away by framecount02:15
lardmansort of worked when I wrote it the other day, every few frames would fail though02:15
lardmanso can either average some frames to remove noise, or write a routine to intelligently handle the assumed frequency02:15
lardmanam trying on smaller files to begin with though!02:16
divide_by_zeroyou are recognizing printed letters, with a training set?... correlation is a good start indeed...02:16
lardmanand in truth probably won't need that much anyway02:16
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lardmanmore like a few minutes rather than a whole hour+02:17
lcukdo it anyway - for your benefit :D02:17
lcukwhen you are ready02:17
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lardmandivide_by_zero: yep02:17
lcukit will be satisfying to know you did it all02:17
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lardmanmore satisfying to get the data processed and move on to something else! :)02:17
lardmanwell sort of :D02:18
lcuk:) i totally understand that02:18
divide_by_zeroyour problem is the image noise? and you can take many frames? i did a program to median-filter multiple images on the n800 just the other day! :)02:19
lardmandivide_by_zero: I don't know beforehand how many frames are at the same freq (and therefore have the same text written in the corner)02:19
lardmanbut yeah, will correlate the frames to work out which ones are the same, then integrate them, then work out the text02:20
lardmanor something like that anyway :)02:20
divide_by_zerowell, it seems the ocr is the least of your problems then!... ;)02:20
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lardmanah no, it;s not too bad :)02:21
lcukhey simon, luke broke his finger yesterday at camp02:24
lardmanouch, what was he doing?02:29
lardmanfighting with wooden swords?02:29
lardmanI'm assuming metal ones would take it clean off, but perhaps it got broken when someone stepped on it while it was lying on the floor?02:30
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lcuklardman, fell down stone steps02:48
lcukgood job his cadet core are medics lol02:48
lardmandid they amputate?02:48
lardmansurely the only reasonable course of action to prevent gas gangrene?02:49
lcukno, and its minor enough for him to be wiggling it and getting it wet02:49
lcukits a scratch ;)02:49
lardmanah "broken"02:49
lcukthey said it was fractured02:49
lcukbut i think they were just impressed at having a real patient02:49
lardmando the cadets have portable X-ray machines these days!?02:49
lcukim surprised they didnt bandage his whole arm lol02:49
lcukno but they have semi automatic rifles02:49
lardmanok, I take the piss not02:50
lcukhaving a discussion with your child about guns is one of the stranger things02:50
* lardman ducks behind some sandbags02:50
lcukhis claim to fame tho, he said "you know how you wont let me start the car"02:50
lcuk"well, i got to start up a helicopter"02:50
lardmanthat's cool! :)02:51
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lcukthey made him get out tho lol02:51
lcukyeah tis actually02:51
lcukhe sounds like he had a great time02:51
lardmangood, I'm glad kids still do stuff like that02:51
lcuk5/6 clay pigeon shooting02:51
lcuki told him he was meant to wait until they took em out of the boxes first02:51
lardmanhow else to get a perfect score though!?02:52
lcukits been so quiet without him here02:52
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lcukgnite maemo \o03:06
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* lardman also hits the sack03:07
lardmannight all03:07
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FirebirdHurray, UI redesign:
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pupnikhooray for no dpad on n900 :)09:38
pupnik<- blister from drnoksnes09:38
mavhca usable dpad would be ok09:39
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Stskeepsi'll be happy for 4 cursor buttons on whatever rx-51 i'll get :P09:40
mavhcwhy are there no arrow keys on the on screen keyboard on my n810?09:40
Stskeepscos there's a dpad09:42
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mavhcbut the on screen keyboard is for when the keyboard is closed09:44
Stskeepsyeah :P09:44
mavhcalso is there an app I can install to find my stylus?09:44
mavhcI installed sshd so I can find the device by making it play music09:45
pupnikstylus with beeper might sell09:46
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konttoriAnything interesting happening?10:27
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Stskeepsnot really i guess :P10:30
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konttorieveryone just waiting for some real news?10:33
konttoribtw . tested qik on device. works nice10:33
Stskeepsi think there's the announcement to wait for and then sponsorship approvals for the summit :P10:34
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* Stskeeps is personally just waiting for theme templates :)10:34
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RST38hmoo all10:52
LiraNunaam I the only one who thinks the RX-51's keyboard is horrible?10:53
LiraNunafor those who didn't see it -
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StskeepsLiraNuna: honest to god, it's wonderful when you use it10:56
Stskeepsn810 is horrible horrible compared to it10:56
LiraNunaI like the N810's keyboard10:56
Stskeepsit's much more tactile and soft to use10:56
LiraNunamy only complaint about it (N810's) is there's no pipe key10:56
Stskeepsremap it, it's a linux machine10:56
LiraNunaof course I did10:56
LiraNunajust sayin' too bad it's not default10:56
Stskeepseuro on my keybard seems like a good keyboard10:57
Stskeepschoice for replacement10:57
LiraNunaI changed the Yen10:57
LiraNunaStskeeps, they also removed the 5way nav10:57
Stskeepsor that one10:57
StskeepsLiraNuna: dpad you mean10:57
LiraNunastucked it in the corner10:57
StskeepsLiraNuna: i'm not entirely sure what the thing on the side is tbh10:58
Stskeepsthere's a weird thingie there10:58
LiraNuna'there' ?10:58
LiraNunagood thing though: the screen is flat10:59
LiraNunai.e no sunken screen10:59
Stskeepshm, ok, i can't find the pics now :P10:59
Stskeepseither way there's a weird sensor on the side11:00
* LiraNuna sees nothing special11:00
LiraNunaI see a status light, front facing camera, light sensor11:00
LiraNunaTV OUT!?11:01
chxStskeeps: you have an RX51?11:02
LiraNunaI was about to ask, how do you know about the keyboard11:03
LiraNuna <-- core-dumps folder :D11:03
Stskeepschx: no, but we tried similar keyboards in copenhagen on the developer units11:03
chxI am fairly satisfied with the N81011:03
Stskeepsleftmost thing11:03
chxit's current price makes it very sweet11:03
LiraNunaStskeeps, looks like IR11:04
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chxit will be at least a year before I even look at seriously at the RX-5111:04
Stskeepsyeah, or one of those dpad like things for navigation11:04
chxit will cost a fortune in the beginning.11:04
LiraNunaStskeeps, but it's on the top11:04
StskeepsLiraNuna: yeah, so? it isn't a bad place to move about a finger11:04
LiraNunait looks flat too11:04
Stskeepsi have no idea though.11:05
chxalso I just bought a Lenovo T400s , that fairly depleted my gadget budget for a long time :)11:05
chxbtw is there a case from a material similiar the zeroshock sleeves for the N810?11:06
chxthose sleeves take quite a beating.11:06
JaffaMorning, all11:06
Stskeepsmorning jaffa11:07
chxits , i believe, dense memory foam.11:07
* Jaffa can't wait for RX-51 now11:08
chxgoogle is my friend isnt it :P11:08
chx <= anyone tried that?11:08
LiraNunaDS is larger than N81011:09
LiraNunalet me compare physical size I have both11:09
LiraNunaDS lite is ~1.5cm wider11:09
keesjCIR would be nice11:10
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keesjLiraNuna: the fun thing in is that it states Nokia-NXX and not Nokia-NXXX11:12
LiraNunaRXXX you mean?11:12
LiraNunaoh my bad - excuse me it's late11:13
chxkeesj: it will be called N00 :D11:13
chxkeesj: that's the sound Microsoft gives when they see it.11:13
lcukmornin \o11:15
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lcukchx, those thinkpads are rock solid11:19
lcukkeesj, if it was NXXX i would expect it preloaded with iboobies games lol11:19
chxlcuk: i know, i was looking for a case for the n81011:19
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chxlcuk: the N810 does not have a magnesium alloy roll cage alas.11:19
lcuk^ chx even lol11:20
chxalso note that right now I have a Panasonic Y511:20
chxdont tell me what a rock solid laptop is :P11:20
lcukhave you put the accelerometer to use in your thinkpad?11:20
* lcuk loves neverball11:20
chxI do not have the T400s yet.11:20
chxI ordered it last week and was shipped yesterday or so Lenovo claims11:21
chxhowever, they say it takes 3-4 business days to come up with a tracking number11:21
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lcukyeah, without cases, they just lobbed them bare into the back of a container11:21
lcukhiya Meizirkki \o11:21
chxPanasonic could do that with the full toughbooks11:21
chxlikely even with these business rugged laptops11:22
lcukthose toughbooks really are impressive11:22
chxI like my gadgets living up the challenge.11:22
lcukchuck norris uses em11:22
chxYeah this Y5 survived the last two years with me11:22
chxthat's not a small feat.11:22
chxpoor thing.11:22
keesjthis new hardware will be even more fun.11:22
chxand only the DVD is broken and even that's only just a very little ... unstable. sometimes it does not read discs, see.11:23
chxkeesj: yeah but... the price :(11:23
chxkeesj: making it a phone made it hideously expensive. :(11:23
lcukyeah keesj, small bundle of what the n810 shouldv been  (a REAL upgrade on the 800)11:23
lcukchx, and it also made it better11:24
chxlcuk: Well, yeah11:24
lcuk1 device instead of 211:24
lcukits like head and shoulders :)11:24
keesjlcuk: I don't know about tha't it's definitly different that's for sure11:24
chxlcuk: that's not necessarily better actually11:24
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lcukkeesj, technologically better11:24
chxlcuk: because... see, when i want to make a call, i want a small device. that's my phone. when i want to ssh somewhere i want a big screen and big keyboard.11:24
lcukchx, we humans have macro vision, if we want to make something bigger, we just move it slightly closer to eye11:25
keesjlcuk: I need to see/feel it first. I mean battery life is a very important thing.11:25
lcukin copenhagen when we were muckin around the size difference was barely perceptble11:25
keesjoff to do some shopping11:25
lcukhave fun11:26
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chxlcuk: i am a geek not a human :P11:28
qwerty12_N810In that case, load up the magnifier program then :p11:29
lcuko_O there is one?11:29
lcuki should allow liqbase to do that lol11:29
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lcukapt-get install coffee bacon11:33
qwerty12_N810You forgot sudo11:33
lcuknahh, it failed cos the fridge was bare11:33
lcuki am root lol11:33
Jaffakeesj: The N810 prototypes has "N00" on the front of them, so I'm not sure "NXX" is any indication.11:38
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lcuktechnology.  its amazing how they are still trying to catch up with the ball mouse11:45
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chxlcuk: yes but these do not gather dust as those did11:47
lcukwell, i am used to cleaning my balls anyway11:48
lcukits worse after the missus has been using em11:49
lcukmy ball is all hairy11:49
pupnikkeyboard / mouse gunk is gross11:57
lcukagreed pupnik11:57
lcukso when are lazer keyboards gonna hit off11:58
pupniktwitter #is irc11:59
lcukit would be, but the client is a bit bob11:59
lcukand refresh is slwo11:59
mavhctwitter is interactive rss12:11
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lcukhi rkirti wazd \o12:38
wazdlcuk: heya12:38
wazdhello all12:38
lcukhave you found a solution to the weather service yet, or been sidetracked?12:39
wazdlcuk: still working on it12:39
lcukfair enough12:39
lcuki wonder whether finding a way for custom user supplied sources would work - ie i have a fond liking for personal data from met, and could find the url source and filter required for it, and push it to the web somewhee12:40
lcukbut not actively include it by default in the package so you guys are clear12:41
rkirti'lo lcuk12:45
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AnidelHello guys13:33
Anidelanyone's having issues with DNS not working in Fremantle?13:34
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lcukAnidel, in your scratchbox ?13:36
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lcukor in the town of fremantle?13:36
Anidelguess which ? :p13:37
Anidelthe town of Fremantle of course!13:37
lcuk should tell you of any difficulties then :P13:38
lcukas for scratchbox, there are some things relating to dns13:38
lcukeven on older sdk's i assume the problem will be similar13:39
qwerty12_N810I have Transmission working in the Fremantle SDK - all it needed was me changing /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf and the target's /etc/resolv.conf from
AnidelI tried that.. let me try again13:39
lcuknice qwerty!13:39
Anidelthanks worked.. it was /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf causing errors13:40
Anidelwasn't updated with the new DNS servers13:40
Anidel:) cool13:40
Anidelany web IRC interface?13:40
Anidelto come here13:40
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Anidelwhy better13:43
Anidelbtw, working on Xournal, qwerty :) thanks for your help13:43
Anidelwas that Xournal code modified by someone?13:43
qwerty12_N810Glad to hear it, thanks :). It was X-Fade who had the file :)13:43
Anidelyeah I know :)13:43
qwerty12_N810No, it's the file you once uploaded to -devel13:44
AnidelI didn't remember the build depended on bluetooth2-dev that's why I was asking.. well need to recheck those dependencies13:44
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konttorilcuk: port neverball to maemo!14:04
lcuk:) you know more about opengl than me14:05
lcukim happy making my own new stuff14:05
lcukbut yeah, it would be good14:06
lcuktheres been similar games in the past - but having it using the accelerometer makes it great - we have similar games for the wii14:06
lcuktheres a great one for the wiifit actually14:06
konttoriproblem is nb is written in ogl 1.x.14:06
lcukthe principle is simple tho14:07
lcukjust start with a simple ball and surface and move on from there14:07
konttoriand device has ogles. 2.0 code of ogl is pretty compatible with similar es version14:07
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lcukif you can get an example app running which renders just a ball and surface...14:07
lcukthe rest will come as people hack14:07
lcukdid you see the liqflow thing on your device - does it work correctly with hardware accelerometer - im working soley from my x41 and think the modelling is right14:08
konttorididnt test yet14:09
lcukits nice and fast on my 81014:09
lcukbut obviously, theres no accel14:09
* lcuk loves particle fields14:09
konttoribut i would assume it does. accelo code is easy and reliable14:09
lcukyeah, thats good14:10
* konttori types with very active baby in other hand14:10
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konttoricool need to get benchmark of device :
lcuki wonder how much more processing power i will have for liqbase14:14
lcukand wheter i can get it EVEN FASTER by lowering res a bit - bring it on par with iphone ;)14:14
* lcuk salivates at thought of the omap314:15
javispedroso the maemophone is going to ship first it seems.14:17
javispedrothe n900, before the openpandora.14:17
qwerty12_N810The OpenPandora is ever going to ship? :)14:18
lcukheh @ pandora buying in bulk from nokia and scratching off the labels :p14:18
lcukqwerty12_N810, did you see my -developers posting - i have tested package but autobuilder wont accept the changes file :'(14:19
* lcuk still has a shit folder btw14:19
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slonopotamuscan i disable wd?14:27
javispedroslonopotamus, maybe ? it has no-omap-wd and no-retu-wd flags. you mean that?14:30
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slonopotamusi guess yes. just want it to stop rebooting when too much swap is used14:31
* javispedro wonders if swap-over-nfs is going to work someday ;)14:33
Komzpajavispedro: why not swap-over-nbd?14:34
javispedroKomzpa, never tried. does it work?14:34
Komzpajavispedro: dunno about maemo, but on debian works.14:35
Komzpamean, desktop.14:35
slonopotamusnbd - ?14:35
Komzpanetwork block device14:35
slonopotamusnever heard of it. is it present in 2.6.21?14:36
Komzpait was even in 2.4 IIRC14:36
javispedroslonopotamus, seems so: # CONFIG_BLK_DEV_NBD is not set14:37
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javispedro(that is 2420_config)14:37
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ShadowJKas long as the wifi driver is using the correct memory allocation functions I think it should work..14:39
ShadowJKof course when it hangs you get no output to figure out where it died :)14:40
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* javispedro builds the module and apt-gets nbd-server on desktop...14:43
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javispedroseems to work. /dev/nbd0 type=partition size=204792 used=24500 :)14:51
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javispedroalready 38 MiB used.14:52
javispedroand no crash so far.14:52
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javispedrobut it's very slow swapping in............. not worth the effort it seems.14:53
Anidellots of work just to re-package a package :(14:55
slonopotamusAnidel, move to better distro :)14:56
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ShadowJKjavispedro, I suspect nbd worst case is about 10 - 100X faster than SD worst case though14:56
ShadowJKAnd SD peak performance about 10 - 20X faster than nbd peak performance over wifi :)14:57
ShadowJKOh dunno about usb14:57
slonopotamusshould be better14:58
Anidelslonopotamus: Fremantle :P14:58
AnidelI'm repackaging Xournal for Fremantle...14:58
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Komzpa"swap your tablet to your gmail!"14:58
AnidelI hoped at least the packaging files in debian/ worked fine either in Maemo 4 and Fremantle..but looks like it's not the case14:59
javispedroShadowJK, it's not noticeable while swapping out (suspect it's a combination of slow sd writes and the fact its done on the background ;) )14:59
AnidelThe app is there but it won't start because hd-app-mgr can't find service
lcukAnidel, packaging is the worst part14:59
javispedroah I don't know why the ramzswap do not implement compressed swapping to the backend device14:59
javispedrocombined with this it would rule the world.15:00
Anidellcuk: it sucks15:00
lcukAnidel, you got the /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.maemo.xournal.service file in place15:00
lcukuse others in that folder as a template for yours if not15:01
Anidelit's there...15:01
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javispedroalso, I at least was able to confuse dbus by editing that file in place, requiring a restart15:01
AnidelI'll change it to org.maemo instead of the old, but it shouldn't be the problem15:01
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ShadowJKjavispedro, the biggest performance gain would come from changing the swap allocation scheme completely :)15:02
lcukAnidel, thats probably not important, i forgot to change that - it was just the path from mine15:02
lcukand i changed the name for your package :P15:02
ShadowJKHarddrive: random writes are slow, random reads are slow. SD: random writes are superslow and stall everything else, random reads are fast-ish15:03
Anidelwhat do you mean you changed the name of my package?15:03
eichihello guys15:03
ShadowJKlinux was only ever written with the first scenario in mind15:03
eichimy maemo died completely, doesnt boot anymore...what can i do beside of reflashing?15:03
Stskeepsdo you have bootmenu installed with USBnet emergency telnetd?15:04
lcukAnidel, i just grabbed the filename and path from liqbase_playground and changed it to say xournal, but forgot to change the org.maemo one.  nothin major lol15:04
Anideloh you mean here, okay :)15:04
Anidellcuk: I should be able to run it simply executing the command, right? uhm.. it fails in initializing osso15:05
Anidelreturns null as a context.. that may be the issue15:05
qwerty12_N810Anidel: <command>15:06
lcukyeah, maybe the thing is related - but i dunno15:06
lcukdoes osso check signage of services15:06
Anidelyep.. qwerty..15:06
Anidelbut I got the issue now :)15:06
Anidelis still /home/user on the Fremantle Device?15:07
* lcuk smiles. liblo is on its way15:07
AnidelI really should find a different path for those files...15:07
lcukyeah, but you should really use proper homepath checking15:07
lcukto save folks later when its ported to mer :)15:07
Anideltrue :)15:07
lcukchar *envhome = getenv("HOME");15:08
lcukobviously check it for failing, and either bailout, or just use /home/user and pray ;)15:08
eichiStskeeps, yes i have bootmenu with the telnet function15:09
Stskeepseichi: go mount your maemo partition and free some space probably15:09
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eichiis it telnet via wireless or usb?15:10
Stskeepsusb15:10 i think15:10
Anidelit starts.. and looks ugly :D15:12
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Anidellots of work to do :/15:14
* lcuk passes Anidel a BLT15:14
* Anidel thanks15:14
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* Anidel reads Redesigning from Maemo 4 to Maemo 5 15:25
* lcuk removes anidels close button15:27
lcuktoo late lol15:27
Anidelwhich one you guys referring to?15:28
lcukdialog boxes having no way to cancel (sts is right, it was the actual cancel button that isnt there)15:28
Anidelwho needs cancel? :D15:29
qwerty12_N810Tap outside a dialog box to cancel :)15:29
Anidelyeah I know.. but before I'll get to that.. there's a lot else to do :/15:29
Anidelredesign the toolbar for example.. icons are way bigger now and way less icons would fit..15:30
AnidelI think I need something else...15:30
chxand what will happen to use who stick to the N810 if everyone rushes over to the new device?15:30
qwerty12_N810Fuck... infobot's gone AWOL15:31
Anidelwell Xournal still works fine on Chinook/Diablo15:31
AnidelI won't add anything new, yet...15:31
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lcukAnidel, use ait Crossfire technology and have a doublewide tablet :D15:32
Stskeepswouldn't be bad to have two extension ports on the side of tablets15:33
Anidelright :)15:33
Stskeepslink multiple tablets ;p15:33
AnidelI can simulate it via network/bluetooth :P15:33
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Stskeepsi guess n8x0 to n8x0 is already possible15:34
Anidelwhat about ONE single button in the tool bar that when pressed show a screen fulls of controls. As soon as you choose your action, it disappears showing the canvas...15:34
Anidelit means two taps for each action.. I can pack 2/3 of the most used on the toolbar + this "Show All" button..15:35
Anidelgoing from 16 buttons down to 3 :)15:35
Anidelright now I can see only 9-10 fit on the new Fremantle toolbar.. uhm15:36
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Anidelalso, am I supposed to do something for the scrollbars? they don't look finger friendly at all15:36
lcukif you can realistically expect the user to have a stylus whilst using your app - is there no way to keep your toolbar small?15:36
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Anidelwell it's Xournal.. I don't expect people to write with their finger!15:37
lcukyou can make the navigation elements finger friendly and have improved menus15:37
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lcukbut you dont need to do it everywhere really15:37
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AnidelI was thinking at overlay the actions over the canvas.. kind of Edit Canvas mode + Action Selection mode15:38
qwerty12_N810Anidel: preferred option AFAIK is kinetic ( or just use the thumb scrollbar (
Anidelif I detect a thumb press on the canvas, I'll show the actions15:38
lcukmajor surgery though, it might be more practical in a timescale to just alter the toolicon size 9if thats possible)15:38
AnidelI hate kinetic :)15:39
Anidelbut yeah for the Canvas I'll use it15:39
lcukhes right for moving around an open document15:39
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lcukbut when you are scribbling and not wanting kinetic scrollbars are more practical15:39
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Anidelif Fremantle has a easier way to detect thumb pressure from stylus one.. I'll be fine...15:40
Anidelstylus scribbles, finger pans15:40
* lcuk uses stylus to navigate15:40
lcuki dont like finger marks15:40
AnidelI mean on the canvas, not the menus15:40
lcukoh cripes no15:41
lcukyou would piss off the user15:41
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lcuk"why wont this thing just move"15:41
lcukas the scribble line goes up the page15:41
Anidel? wait...15:41
lcukuse the mic and listen for the rage15:41
lcukand when detected, change mode15:41
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AnidelIf I start scribbling with the stylus and go up the page and I want to continue up.. Xournal currently doesn't do that15:41
lcukthats ok15:42
Anidelthat can be done (automatically pan in scribbling mode)15:42
Anidelbut if I raise the pen15:42
lcukif you start autoscrolling when scribbling its bad15:42
* lcuk has experience15:42
Anideland then use the thumb on the canvas.. I'll suppose the user wants to pan, not scribble with the thumb15:42
Anidellcuk: indeed, so why you told before "why won't this think just move"?15:43
AnidelI am not sure I explained my intentions well :)15:43
lcukno, its because you are trying to autodetect intent from the stroke itself15:43
lcukyou have a drawing tool selected, so let them draw15:43
lcukif they select move/pan mode then pan15:43
lcukdont try to second guess15:44
AnidelI'll put in a conf selector.. one can choose which mode he likes more15:44
AnidelI like alternatives :) I'm not Steve :p15:44
lcuki just think the model adobe have which is tried and tested by millions works15:45
Anidelthe screen real estate is not that much.. people needs to pan a lot... having to press a button twice to move the canvas, for me, is frustrating.. but I'll let the user choose15:45
lcuk(acrobat has the hand pan tool and a different one for selection15:45
Anidelthat's on a PC15:45
lcukyeah - i have it on my tabletpc15:46
Anidelbut they have keyboard shortcuts15:46
Anideltabletpc users are a minority.. those apps are not designed with a touchscreen in mind15:46
Anidelanyway there's no issue :) the user chooses and we're all happy15:47
lcukacrobat is - its the only desktop app i know that does scrolling when main body is grabbed15:47
Anidelhow you grab it?15:47
lcukleft mouse click / pen down15:47
Anidelbut does it have scribbling? can you write on the PDF with your pen?15:47
lcukno, it doesnt do draw over, but it has a text selection mode15:48
lcukwhich is equivilent to editing15:48
Anidelthere it's easy for them15:48
lcukie if in selection mode its not moving15:48
Anidelwait.. on a PDF you usually pan around to read it..15:48
Anideldon't select that often..15:48
Anidelso it makes sense15:49
lcukor you enter selection mode to do stuff15:49
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Anidelon the tablet is different.. user has to scribble AND pan most of the time15:49
Anidelhaving a way to reduce clicking on a button, helps... if it doesn't, switch back to "old style" mode15:49
* lcuk :)15:50
Anidelbut this my way of handling it, works only if Fremantle does a good job in detecting what object is touching the screen: the pen or the finger15:50
Anidelin Diablo the pressure was 0-.5 for the stylus .5-1 for the finger.. and it was quite reliable15:51
lcukyeah anidel i know how sensitive everything is and hope you get it working15:52
lcukis the "undo" button within easy reach?15:52
Anidelif not, it's just a config settings away15:52
Anidelit has to..15:52
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wazdlcuk: bout custom weather sources - we've already made it :016:12
wazdbut we need to provide some default source anyway :)16:13
* slonopotamus installs dosbox16:13
lcukcool wazd, didnt know16:14
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* javispedro is going to become unsane16:30
javispedroso, my idea to optimize a loop reading lots of globals variables is to make multiple versions of it16:30
javispedroone for each possible set of global variable values.16:30
javispedroup so far there are already 6 versions but plan to remove yet another global var access, so that'll make it 12 versions...16:31
Corsacis that you idea of optimzation?16:32
javispedrowhen it spends most of the time in lrdb instructions, I guess so...16:32
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lcukjavispedro, its easier to factor out the global lookups than it is to create duplicates like that which will become a nightmare16:35
lcukobviously, having optimized variations is good sometimes tho ;)16:35
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javispedroe.g. it loads a global variable (repeating mode) and switches behaviour depending on it in the middle of the innermost loop, even though that value won't change for the whole program lifetime.16:36
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pupnikisn't there some meta you could pass to compiler to tell it to factor-out variable x,y,z into multiple function versions func_xyz_()16:38
javispedroso i just do: if (global_var == 1) { DO_LOOP(1) } else { DO_LOOP(0) } this way there's only one lookup entering the outermost loop,16:38
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javispedroand since I give the compiler the right, const value, it then optimizes if (0)'s away.16:38
javispedro(in each branch)16:38
pupnikman, need 'wasd' also - badly16:38
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pupnikso essentially you're trying to reduce the 'state information' required to emulate the PPU16:39
javispedrothe problem is that it's starting to become a rather big if, so I really need that "meta" you're descripting above, pupnik :)16:39
javispedrocorrect. If I make the loop require less accesses, I assume the compiler register allocator will start doing a better job.16:40
lcukjavispedro, i have seen implementations use a big #define template and token##pasting to achieve the resulting variations16:41
lcukhold on, lemme see if i can find where i saw it16:41
javispedrothe problem is that I don't know the values at compile time16:41
javispedrobut at program startup time16:41
javispedrohm. function pointers.16:41
javispedrona, would slow down.16:42
lcuklook at ztriangle.h16:43
javispedroa great guy ^^^16:43
javispedroi ported that to palmos once :D16:43
lcukit is initialized and repeatedly called from within the ztriangle source16:43
lcukwith different defines16:43
lcukslightly different than i recall it16:43
lcukjavispedro, it compiles nicely for 8x0 :)16:44
lcukneat trick isnt it16:45
javispedroyep, I like it.16:47
javispedrobtw, I got around 5 glxgears fps in my PalmT|X :)16:48
javispedronot bad considering the gl* calls were being done from m68k (so each call meant a byteswap)16:48
lcukyeah - much lower framebuffer size there tho16:49
slonopotamusjavispedro, what the heck you're doing? :)16:49
javispedroslonopotamus, trying to win the 100cc mushroom cup in super mario kart.16:50
javispedrowhich is not possible with the current 9 fps with sound :(16:50
slonopotamusturn off sound16:50
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javispedrothat's cheating ;)16:50
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mmu_screenfabrice rox16:54
wazdRemember I was asking if there were any text separator widget in SDK? :)16:54
mmu_screenoh it's St Fabrice today btw :)16:54
wazdtadam :)16:54
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javispedrooh, i though that was port of the "GroupButton" widget (sorry I only know the palmos name for it ;) )16:55
wazdand looks like we'll have still 16 bit color but they'll use some dithering for gradients16:56
wazdjavispedro: nono, above group buttons16:56
wazdjavispedro: sort and slideshow16:56
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javispedrowazd: yep, those. aren't they part of the widget below them?17:02
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lcukshouldnt think so javispedro17:09
lcukjust a header element17:09
javispedroundocumented then I guess?17:10
lcuki dunno17:10
lcuknot looked at what parts are17:10
lcukbut if i was making one, it wouldnt be more more than a label17:10
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wazdjavispedro: guess not cause I've seen that groupbutton without top part17:13
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wazdjavispedro: I need top part for this:
javispedrobtw very cool. looks iphoneish :)17:14
wazdjavispedro: well, yeah, but that's kinda best way I guess :)17:16
Macergot sound and wifi tethering working in mer17:18
* qwerty12_N810 finds it ironic that the deprecated widgets section of libhildon's docs for Fremantle can actually give more information on the widgets for Diablo :p17:19
Macerthe vol control17:20
Macerdoesnt work unless i  use alsa mixer17:20
Stskeepsalsamixer -c 0 or gnome-alsamixer17:20
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Macerthe one in the tray tho ;)17:20
Stskeepsah, yeah17:21
Macerit nis like17:21
Macerreally amplified17:21
Macerloud as hell17:21
javispedroThe hildon docs are really missing a few screenshots17:21
Macerfirst time i had it turned all the way up17:21
StskeepsMacer: understand my hint of unmuting now? :P17:22
Maceroh i already went through that on PCs Stskeeps17:22
Macer;) was acommon problem17:22
fureddoHi.  A few days ago, I uploaded my application to extras-devel repo.   Now, I would like to upload it again but this time with fewer packages in Build-Depends line.17:22
Maceri am liking mer more now heh17:23
Macercant wait to see what the next ver brings17:23
fureddoApparently, I cannot overwrite it.17:23
Macerno dist-upgrade for mer yet?17:23
qwerty12_N810javispedro: believe it or not, actually has more screenshots of diablo widgets than the diablo pages itself do...17:24
MacerStskeeps: why no mplayer pkg?17:24
javispedroqwerty12_N810, lol, all of them are diablo!17:24
Macermaybe  i missed it17:24
fureddoIs there some way to overwrite the uploaded application without increasing the version number?17:24
qwerty12_N810javispedro: hehe, I was like WTF when I saw it too :D17:25
MacerStskeeps: also, going to fix the menu editor?17:25
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Maceror is there a way for me to update?17:25
StskeepsMacer: hildon-plugin-settings is dying a slow nice death atm17:25
StskeepsMacer: legal issues17:25
Macerso switching menu systems?17:26
b-man16hello Stskeeps :)17:26
Maceror switching the config?17:26
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Macerbecause having everything in "Extras"17:28
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Maceris there some other way to edit it?17:28
MrGooselcuk: is there any chance of pdf files being supported by liqbase?17:29
lcukmrgoose, theres every possibility.  but im not personally interested in implementing it.  there will be plenty of examples of how such a thing could be done when things start being released17:30
Maceri can use diablo repos for mer?17:30
Anidelfound and fixed a bug that was not showing the canvas in Xournal :D cool I can draw in Fremantle17:30
lcukMrGoose, i just like writing on everything.  all liq* screens have capability to be drawn on17:31
* lcuk is a modernday caveman17:31
qwerty12_N810Caveman is right... you live up North :p17:32
* lcuk zooms into qwerty and draws crosshairs17:32
Maceri need an mplayer pkg17:33
lcukbuild yourself for mer - i believe obs wont do it for you17:33
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Macerlcuk: can i build on the device?17:35
lcukaccording to the spec of mer, thats entirely possible17:36
Maceri shought there was a build-essentials17:36
Macerdo i need a repo for it?17:36
lcuki dunno17:36
lcuki just heard it was one of the things17:36
Maceryeah it is build-essential17:41
Macerdownloading 45MB off a tethered connection tho17:42
Macerthat kind of sucks17:42
Macerah well. bbl17:42
Macerim starting to like mer more and more17:43
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lcukMacer, technically same build-essential is available for maemo17:46
lcukit just lacks some of the other periphery :)17:47
pupnikis there a new/better synergy for os2008?18:01
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JaffaEh, did dneary just send an email to maemo-announce about the voting for the *last* election?18:13
lcukhah Jaffa i was just sending a reply to that effect18:14
Stskeepsyay time travel18:14
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lcuki went and read the candidate list and everything until i realized18:14
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jakemaheuHello Everyone!18:22
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jakemaheu!seen solca18:24
jakemaheu~seen solca18:24
jakemaheuwhat happened to infobot?18:24
pupnikpiano fell on it18:24
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AnidelEnough for today.. alpha version for Fremantle of Xournal has been uploaded to the build queue. As soon as I'll install again the Diablo SDK I'll patch it as well..I think I know how to fix it18:31
* pupnik googles xournal18:31
pupnikdamn google customizing my results18:33
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lcukpupnik, only does it if you are logged in18:33
lcukso stop giving google your details onmasse :P18:34
pupnikhmm xournal for maemo seems to be 3rc hit in google search for xournal18:34
Anidelmakes sense :)18:35
pupnikim wearing through the n810 kbd18:36
pupnikdirty thumbs18:36
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* javispedro creates 9 parameter macro18:37
javispedrothank god I'll never have to rebase this into a newer version18:37
lcuknever say never!18:38
javispedroI'll be safely hidden far, far away from here if the need ever arises.18:39
lcukwe will forward all requests to javispedro@outermongolia18:39
jakemaheuWould you guys mind taking a look at my blog?18:40
lcukjakemaheu, only if you can primse we wont spontaniously combust18:40
* lcuk is losing the will to type18:41
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jakemaheuWhat do you think?18:45
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pupnikwhat is scancode for a s d18:47
pupnikw is 2518:47
javispedroa 38 s 39 d 40 w 2518:47
javispedropupnik, wnat test program?18:47
javispedro(I built a simple thingie showing scancodes for keys pressed, it must be still roaming around the dosbox thread)18:48
pupnikah 38no18:49
pupnikwell yes!18:49
pupnikno i have them18:49
pupniklost wlan there18:49
pupniktesting nao18:49
lcukscancodes - dont different keyboards have different codes18:49
jakemaheuDid anyone read the article on the N900?18:49
AnidelCool, it was compiled fine :)18:50
javispedroprobably lcuk, but in the wacky Maemo world even keysyms are different in different devices ;)18:50
javispedrosave for the common ones, but since I'm not interested in the common ones...18:51
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pupnikhmm game too fast.  must slow down18:52
pupniknormal speed too fast for me18:53
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javispedrotry pal18:53
pupnikno just old18:53
pupniki set fs 0 and lower cpu spd for this level18:54
javispedroI have a new idea for the non-turbo mode, using select instead of usleep18:54
javispedrothe sdl guys say it's faster18:54
pupnikdid you figure out xlation from snes pallette to n800 rgb?18:55
javispedrono idea. you see garbled colors18:55
pupnikthere must be some18:55
javispedroit does some brightness adjustment but that's about it18:56
pupnikremember rst's comment on pallette->rgb->16bit?18:56
javispedroyes; since it does that only when the palette changes I don't think there's much speed to be gained there18:56
javispedro(e.g. the whole mode7 funcs don't do any color conversion at all)18:57
javispedrothey all handle target's (nokia) rgb56518:57
pupniki thought that happened for all drawing18:57
jakemaheuFor those of you that have seen the proto for the N900, are you planning on buying one?18:58
Anidelhopefully.. I would like to hold it first, tho18:58
jakemaheuApparently it's smaller18:58
AnidelI think the Nokia flagship store here in London will have it for sure18:58
javispedropupnik, well, to tell the truth, yes, there's a color conversion, using the prefilled palette.18:59
javispedrojakemaheu, seen the price yet? :)19:00
jakemaheu500 euros19:00
jakemaheu730 usd19:00
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aolit will be cheaper in states anyways19:01
jakemaheui said that on my twitter lol19:01
aolthe sim-free phones are always cheaper over there19:02
jakemaheui want that 5mp carl zeiss19:02
javispedrowho is carl zeiss btw? :D19:02
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chxI will buy one when it's below 300USD19:02
aolI could say that you can pretty much convert those euros directly to USD19:02
chxit wont take more than two years.19:02
aolso 550$ should be close19:02
jakemaheuplus a subsidized contract19:02
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aolI'll buy one immediately19:02
aolor rather, I'll make my boss to buy me one19:03
javispedrodamn :;)19:03
chxaol: now, if i get a chance to do THAT , then sure i want one :P19:03
Luke-Jraol: sim-free? more like sim-incompatible19:03
* javispedro has the feeling that even with carl zeiss whatever it'll be still as bad as a regular phone cam.19:03
aolLuke-Jr: sim-free is another word for "without contract"19:04
jakemaheuit's supposed to be able to record full-motion video at 800x48019:04
javispedrowierd resolution.19:04
chxthere is more to a camera than lens....19:04
Luke-Jraol: oh, you mean "sim not included", not "incapable of using sim"19:04
jakemaheubut the lens does make a big difference19:04
zerojayPCjavispedro: Gotta disagree.19:04
javispedrofor capturing, I mean.19:04
Luke-JrN900 sucks anyway.19:04
jakemaheui have an OLD powershot a410 with epic glass19:05
jakemaheuit's 3.0 mp, but takes amazing images19:05
Luke-JrI'd pay at most $250 for a N900 *today*19:05
aolLuke-Jr: yeah.. In Europe lots more phones are sold without contract than in USA ... so you just pay the whole phone immediately, and then pay much less for the contract19:05
jakemaheu+ contract?19:05
pupniki need a "matrix" button for these games --- :)19:05
aolit's hard to understand people who say iPhone is cheap as it's only $9919:06
javispedromatrix? ;)19:06
pupnikslow Ãmotion19:06
aquatixaol: indeed, as it's really about 800 EUR19:06
aoland while they are paying 70-99$ month for the contract?!19:06
jakemaheuHere's a picture from that old 3.0MP Canon:
javispedropull git and manually add a bigger FrameTime ;)19:06
aquatixaol: ha, and that19:06
pupnikhmm sound broke19:07
jakemaheuThere's also this one:
pupnikhow restart esd/alsa19:07
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javispedroalsa can't be restarted other than rebooting19:07
lcukwow jakemaheu the pic of the eye is cool19:07
lcukreally reflective19:07
javispedroesd just kill it, it crashes all the time either way.19:07
jakemaheui try :)19:07
pupnikused to have smth .. ty19:07
lcukshame it couldnt be taken so you cant see the camera in reflection19:07
jakemaheutotally worth it19:08
javispedropupnik, probably some dsp thingie then. I don't know about taht.19:08
Luke-Jrjavispedro: rmmod && modprobe19:08
jakemaheuyou can see trees at my school in the reflection19:08
javispedroLuke-Jr, alsa is builtin in diablo19:08
Luke-Jrjavispedro: why would anyone use Diablo?19:08
* lcuk does - whats wrong with it19:08
lcukits default and stable and comes with the device19:09
Luke-Jrunmaintained buggy piece of crap19:09
* javispedro also will probably use diablo for life ...19:09
aolSo when is Mer finished enough to be less buggy than Diablo?19:09
Luke-Jrask someone who uses Mer19:09
lcukaol, diablo will still be used by some19:09
javispedroby Fremantle time ;)19:09
lcukthe kind of people who buy a tool and dont see the need to change it if it does everything they want already19:10
lcuksome folks still use chinook for similar reason19:10
Luke-JrDiablo is useful only for a notepad really19:10
lcuki use diablo extensively for development19:10
Luke-Jrthe browser sucks, the communications is too buggy to work right...19:10
Luke-Jrthe GPS is bugged19:10
lcukmer wont make the hardware magically better19:11
Luke-Jrlcuk: none of these are hardware problems19:11
javispedroalso, I like the browser...  :P19:11
lcukthe games are good and solid19:11
Luke-Jrif I wanted a gaming system, I'd probably get a DS19:11
javispedroand icd is better than nm ;)19:12
Luke-Jriwconfig > icd > nm19:12
lcukLuke-Jr, people still run DOS and windows 3.1 every day19:12
lcukdure, theres newer and better - but if it works for them, why change19:12
Luke-Jrlcuk: DOS is maintained more than Diablo19:13
javispedrousing the butterfly effect to flip bits in ram > iwconfig > icd > nm19:13
Luke-JrWindows 3.1, people better not be using...19:13
lcukLuke-Jr, DOS is closed source19:13
Luke-Jrlcuk: no19:13
lcukdoes microsoft still release updates19:13
glass_buils down to which dos19:13
Luke-JrMicrosoft isn't the only DOS company19:13
glass_dos is easy "realtime" environment19:14
lcukok, MSDOS is still used you pedantic SOB.  you get my point hopefully :)19:14
javispedrodos sucks. unportable, ugly, messy, and does nothing. end of story.19:14
Luke-Jrlcuk: now that's just stupid :þ19:14
pupnikjavispedro incredible emu - when totally overloaded, the sound stream never srops19:15
javispedrothank the linux kernel for that :)19:15
pupnikthe emu coder19:16
pupnikthey keep playing samples19:16
pupnikeven if next note is not forthcoming19:16
javispedrobecause the sound thread keeps on running19:16
javispedro(that design comes from upstream snes9x btw )19:17
pupnikah? hm19:17
javispedroI saw a thread heavily criticising it -- it seems some gaming depending on perfect sync between apu and cpu will never run due to it)19:17
jakemaheuhas anyone seen solca?19:17
javispedrobut I like it, it's very, very portable.19:18
jakemaheui want to find if there's been any progress on nitrdroid19:18
* javispedro wants NitFreud so that he does not become insane.19:18
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zerojayPC - what do ya think?19:29
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* javispedro 's macro expands in 187806 characters wide line.19:41
wjtuhm, wow. :) what does it do?19:42
javispedrocreate lots of versions of nearly the same loop so that it does not need to access memory :P19:43
javispedroas many flag variables as it currently does, I mean.19:44
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pupnikcrazy like fox19:48
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GAN800Ahaha, Luke-Jr trolling is fun.19:49
Luke-JrGAN800: no u19:49
GAN800So you'd be willing to pay the parts cost only? Funny.19:49
GAN800Seriously, teach yourself something about economics.19:49
pupnikjavispedro - is there a name for that in computer science?  it is like ... compiling at a higher level or smth19:49
Luke-Jrwhat I'm willing to pay is based on how useful it is to me19:49
derfjavispedro: You realize code takes up memory, too, right?19:50
javispedropupnik, i always call it "borking"  :P I'd be surprised If this really is any faster19:50
pupnik"now i make different machines for different data"19:50
Luke-Jrderf: not always19:50
javispedroderf, yep, my hope is that since games usually set up a mode and forget about it, instructions caches will be filled with the "right" one19:51
derfI forget how well the branch predictor on ARM performs.19:51
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lardmanafternoon all19:52
javispedrothere's still the storm of ifs problem, but that's done once per frame and not once per pixel19:52
pupnikhi lardman!  see what javispedros been doing? :)19:52
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slonopotamusjavispedro, you're insane :P19:53
lardmannope, what's that?19:53
* lardman finds the archive19:53
pupniksnes :)  fast19:53
lardmanah, good stuff19:53
* lardman doesn't play games on his device mind you19:53
pupniki am now!19:54
pupnikwasnt before!19:54
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javispedrolol it compiled, took nearly 10 full seconds :D19:57
Macermer isnt that bad19:58
javispedrothe result is 2 EXTRA FRAMES PER SECOND!!!!!!!!!!!19:58
slonopotamusjavispedro, hehe19:58
Luke-Jr2 whole frames19:58
Macerthat adds up19:58
javispedromario kart now reaches 26 with sound19:59
javispedro*without, sorry19:59
aquatixhm, that's actually about playable i guess19:59
aquatixgood stuff19:59
slonopotamusthat's playable19:59
Macermario kart huh?20:01
Maceri just thought about it20:01
Macermer doesnt dist-upgrade20:01
aquatixplayed it a few weeks back on my wii; the snes version that is20:01
Macerso like20:01
Macerwill i have to wipe/reinstall later?20:02
aquatixhaving snes stuff on my n810 would be awesome :)20:02
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Macerbulding mplayer in mer now20:02
* Macer feels like he is back in gentoo20:03
javispedrospeedhacks make it 28, peaking 30.20:03
javispedro(they disable sound in the rom itself among other things)20:03
* javispedro hopes he didn't break all other games :P20:03
amrwait wait hold up20:06
amrdid i read mario kart?20:06
javispedroyou did :P20:07
Luke-Jrduck go quack quack20:07
amrthe nes emulator is lovely20:07
Luke-Jrcow go moo20:07
amrive wasted so many hours playing mario over and over again20:07
aquatixLuke-Jr go woooh?20:07
Luke-Jrkitty go nyaa nyaa20:08
Luke-Jrhow bout u?20:08
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doc|workanyone got any idea why, on my n800, I try to click an install file it spits out the text contents of the install file? It used not do that20:10
jakemaheui remember someone had that problem a while ago20:10
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lcukdoc|home, the mime type of the server offering the .install download may be incorrectly configured20:10
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jakemaheui think it's a mine type deal20:10
amrfucking windows20:10
jakemaheuaugh ninja's20:10
lcukdoc|home, whats the url20:11
lcukthen we can confirm if its a general site problem, or a specific tablet problem20:11
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doc|workhappens with others too, from maemo.org20:13
lcukdoesnt even load for me, browser is borkened mm20:14
lcukqwerty12_N810, does that work for you ^20:14
jakemaheuworks fine for me20:15
jakemaheufirefox 3.520:15
lcukthats not actually whats checking20:15
lcukits whether it opens up the app manager on device itself :P20:15
qwerty12_N810Asks me if I want to download in Tear, but no idea about MicroB as I do not use it20:16
lcukso still non the wiser :| sorry doc20:16
lcukthanks q20:16
doc|workno worries20:17
doc|workanyone else?20:17
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javispedroWORKSFORME: "File download. Name: merinstaller.install, type: application/x-install-instructions, size: 0,39 KiB, open with: app manager".20:17
doc|laptopthanks javispedro20:17
javispedrohum, browser  hung as soon as I hit open, but I guess that's another story.20:18
jakemaheuCan anyone find me the Penny Arcade comic where they have the Wacom Cintiq duel?20:20
jakemaheuI'm writing an article and I need it.20:20
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aquatixjakemaheu: that fairly recent one?20:24
jakemaheui think so20:24
jakemaheuI can't seem to find it through searching20:24
pupnikwoo caught the rat20:25
jakemaheuand brute-force looking through all 400+ comics won't work either20:25
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lcukjakemaheu, it will20:25
lcukand it will also allow you to discover those odd days where you missed em20:25
lcukand didnt realise20:26
jakemaheulcuk: just because you brute-force instead of doing proper optimization doesn't mean it'll work for everyone20:26
* lcuk has done more optimization than most folks realise :)20:27
javispedrooptimization you say? i could hit with my "optimization" in your head! remember it's 180000-ish chars long, it could do a lot of damage!20:27
jakemaheuhehehe you still havent fixed the stamp tool in liqbase20:27
lcukwhy, is it broken?20:28
* javispedro appropiately #ifdefs USE_CRAZY_NONSENSE_OPTS the whole thing :P20:28
javispedroand calls it a day :)20:28
lcuki seem to recall the only thing wrong with it was it would happily churn away and render a multi recursive drawing20:28
lcukit worked perfectly, and if you had just left it alone it would be finished by now20:29
lcuk12 months in performance mode wouldv done the job i think - providing you didnt add new strokes to it20:29
lardmancu all latewr20:31
lardmanlater even :)20:31
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lcukjakemaheu, stamp tool has been improved anyway20:31
* aquatix goes have some supper20:31
jakemaheui installed liqbase-playground20:31
lcukhavent you seen all the funky rendering throughout liqbase20:31
lcukevery visual tile is now a stamp20:32
jakemaheui cant make heads or tails of it20:32
lcukthats the ide20:32
jakemaheulol the original liqbase had a readable interface20:32
jakemaheuplayground has recursive panels in several places20:32
* lcuk nods20:32
jakemaheuyo ucan'20:32
jakemaheuer, you can't tell what is a button and what isn't20:33
* lcuk nods again20:33
jakemaheuRed sox renegade says:20:33
jakemaheuJ-mal J gave it a0:20:33
jakemaheuBoring game, graphics suck, gameplay is boring, no fun at all. I don't see why anyone would play it.20:33
jakemaheuRed sox renegade says:20:33
jakemaheulol this retard on metacritic showing what he thinks of OOT20:33
jakemaheuJake says:20:33
javispedroer ... ?20:34
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jakemaheui love ocarina of time20:35
javispedroah, _OoT_20:35
* javispedro doubts even the N900 can emulate the 64.20:36
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slonopotamusanyone tries software opengl (from mesa) on n8x0? is it unusably slow?20:37
javispedrotinygl will be better20:37
javispedrobut I wouldn't expect more than 10-12 fps out of glxgears using it20:38
Komzpano compiz effects? :'(20:38
slonopotamusjavispedro, and with mesa?20:39
javispedroslower, worse.20:39
javispedroTinyGL is less features, has some bugs, but is really really speedy20:40
Luke-Jrcompiz sucks anyway20:40
javispedroI don't want compiz, but the 3D drivers would be cool, even if we're limited to 30fps and < 640x480 surfaces.20:43
jakemaheuFOUND IT20:44
jakemaheuA rhombus is the kind of rectangle a bitch would draw!20:44
Luke-Jrglad we have that clarified20:45
jakemaheuIs there a linux driver for the Cintiqs?20:46
javispedroI was looking for someone who benchmarked mesa in tmo but couldn't find it20:46
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, so. plasma-4.3 still eats ram?20:46
Luke-Jrwhat's more20:47
Luke-JrI blame you20:47
lcukjakemaheu, the asus eee top is a nice finger touch computer in a monitor20:47
lcukand cheaper20:47
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slonopotamusLuke-Jr, strange, it's memory usage is comparable to other kde things on amd6420:47
jakemaheuit doesn't have a wacom digitizer though20:47
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: … no20:47
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, ...20:47
Luke-Jr17 MB of RAM on amd64 right now20:48
Luke-Jrand that's NOT including X resources20:48
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slonopotamusk. now compare with kopete20:48
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, disable wallpaper :)20:49
Luke-JrI don't use kopete20:49
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: I did20:49
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, ok, konsole or kwin20:49
Luke-JrKWin -- 12 MB20:49
Luke-JrKonsole -- 101 MB20:50
jakemaheui'm sad because the compaq m500 that had an ubuntu uptime of 168 days locked up when i tried to put in a wireless card20:50
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, 17 isn't much more than 12 :)20:50
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: still too much20:50
slonopotamusamarok - 106M20:51
Luke-JrAmarok is a joke20:51
slonopotamusbtw. wtf is that akonadi and nepomuk crap?20:52
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Luke-Jrslonopotamus: exactly that: crap20:52
Luke-Jrat least nepomuk can be turned off20:52
slonopotamushaving them enabled results in 5 mins of 100% cpu usage and VERY intensive disk activity after logon20:52
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slonopotamusLuke-Jr, akonadi too20:53
Luke-Jrno surprise20:53
Luke-Jrno, akonadi is mandatory in 4.320:53
Luke-Jrnepomuk is file indexing crap20:53
Luke-Jrakonadi is PIM cache20:53
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, i don't have akonadi running20:53
Luke-Jrakonadi is basically a MySQL server, unless you USE='sqlite -mysql'20:53
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: you must not be using much of KDE20:54
Luke-Jrstart KMail or KAddressbook20:54
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slonopotamusoh, k20:54
slonopotamusi wonder what they were thinking about20:54
Luke-JrKDE devs appear to be idiot20:54
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Luke-Jrjust like most other devs20:54
slonopotamussemantic desktop, meh20:54
slonopotamusi also was very surprised to find absence of 'root mode' in kcontrol or how it's called now20:55
slonopotamusso kdm settings are effectively unusable :)20:56
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slonopotamusLuke-Jr, btw. have you tried turning wd off so it doesn't reboot under high swap usage?20:57
Luke-Jrcould result in battery explosion etc20:57
slonopotamusbackup before doing that:)20:58
Luke-Jrbackup hardware?20:58
jakemaheusince the release of the alpha sdk for fremantle, has any real progress actually happened?20:58
jakemaheufor diablo, that is20:58
slonopotamusjakemaheu, no, why it should be?20:58
Luke-Jrjakemaheu: not for a year or so I think20:58
Luke-JrNokia has proven they have no commitment to support old, or even current hardware20:59
jakemaheunokia has burned plenty of bridges20:59
jakemaheuLuke-Jr: exactly20:59
Luke-JrI will only buy a N900 when it is proven to be 100% open source and supportable by non-Nokia20:59
* slonopotamus is more than sure that diablo flash has a number of known security holes20:59
jakemaheuand the addition of a phone removed an incentive for many-- a mobile computer without a modem20:59
Luke-Jrand probably not even then, since the kb sucks20:59
jakemaheuer, a built-in phone20:59
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, kb is worse than n810, right?21:00
Luke-Jrjakemaheu: why would you NOT want a modem?>21:00
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Luke-Jrslonopotamus: yeah21:00
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: 3 rows instead of 421:00
jakemaheui mean a gsm modem21:00
jakemaheulike a built in cell phone21:00
Luke-Jrjakemaheu: why would you NOT want one?21:00
Luke-Jryou can always ignore it21:00
jakemaheuSome of us can't afford data plans21:00
* slonopotamus just has cell phone with bt in the pocket21:00
Luke-Jrso don't use it21:00
jakemaheuThat's why we have wifi.21:00
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jakemaheuLuke-Jr then it's just extra cost for us21:01
jakemaheubecause not only is it then unsubsidized, you have useless hardware21:02
Luke-Jrif you only look at "now" and not 3 years down the road when you can afford a data plan21:02
jakemaheuthen the n900 is obsolete21:02
Luke-Jrsee, that's the problem :þ21:02
jakemaheuby nvidia tegra21:02
Luke-JrI buy for 5 years at a time21:02
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jakemaheulol my desktop is that old21:02
Luke-JrI would be surprised if nVidia could even begin to outdo Nokia21:02
slonopotamusjakemaheu, $550 for n900. what 'extra cost' are you talking about? :)21:02
Luke-JrnVidia doesn't even cooperate with Linux devs enough to be decently supported on the desktop21:03
* slonopotamus doesn't remember why he thinks it's $55021:03
jakemaheuslonopotamus, it's the cost of the phone hardware21:03
Luke-Jrmy desktop is 5 years old21:03
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Luke-JrI'm about to replace it with a free Pentium 421:03
jakemaheuthere's a problem with all linux distros21:03
slonopotamusjakemaheu, phone with bt is <= $15021:03
jakemaheuif your hardware is too old, it's legacy and not supported in the newest version21:04
Luke-Jrjakemaheu: huh?21:04
jakemaheuif your hardware is cutting edge, there are no open drivers for it21:04
Luke-Jronce hardware is supported by Linux, I've never seen it lose support21:04
jakemaheunuff said21:04
Luke-JrXorg still supports the oldest video cards it ever supported21:04
jakemaheulook at jaunty 9.04 and ati dropped the x1350pro into legacy21:05
jakemaheutheir legacy driver doesn't work with the new xorg21:05
Luke-JrXorg certainly supports my X85021:05
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Luke-Jrjakemaheu: oh, you're talking out-of-tree non-free crap21:05
Luke-Jrthat doesn't count21:05
lcukis the ati driver for those models open source?21:05 still supports everything it always has21:05
jakemaheui'm not sure21:05
jakemaheuyou need the closed driver for 3d accel for gaming on Wine21:06
jakemaheui use steam21:06
Luke-Jrjakemaheu: see, that's your real problem21:06
Luke-Jrstop using crap like that21:06
jakemaheuand if my card had worked, i'd be using ubuntu right now21:06
jakemaheuGET OUT21:06
lcukoooh, steam have an official linux client now?21:06
jakemaheuWine or Steam?21:06
jakemaheuit doesn't21:06
Luke-JrI mean, WINE is ok, but it has no real legit purpos21:06
jakemaheuLuke-Jr just get out right now21:06
Luke-Jrjakemaheu: no u21:07
jakemaheuit does have a legit purpose21:07
lcukso, you expect it to have drivers for your hardware for a set of unsupported binary blobs?21:07
lcukdont get me wrong, i know binary is bad - but thats not totally the same thing as support in linux kernel21:08
Luke-Jrname one Free app that needs WINE21:08
jakemaheuIt's not that-- normally you could downgrade your system and have it working fine again, but no, it break everything21:08
Luke-Jrone necessary Free app21:08
jakemaheuthats the thing21:08
jakemaheuhow about non-free apps21:08
jakemaheuLIKE STEAM21:08
Luke-Jrlcuk: binary Linux-based kernels are illegal21:08
lcukwhat is - i cant play wii games on linux21:08
jakemaheuHalf-Life 2 is a good games21:08
lcukno they arent21:08
Luke-Jrnon-free apps are bad, but legal21:08
lcukubuntu is a binary distribution21:09
jakemaheubrb lunch21:09
amrchrist how ive missed linux arguments21:09
lcuknot supplying the source is the licence breaker you are thinking of21:09
Luke-Jrjust because Ubuntu gets away with illegal things doesn't suddenly make them legal21:09
* amr is reminded why he got rid of linux on the desktop21:09
lcukLuke-Jr, distributing a binary of a gpl app is perfectly fine21:09
Luke-Jrlcuk: yes, but that's not what I was talking about21:10
lcuk<Luke-Jr> lcuk: binary Linux-based kernels are illegal21:10
lcukno, i could compile up the kernel today, take the cd to the market and sell it legally21:10
lcukif anyone would pay21:10
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lcukyou buy a tomtom that has a binary linux inside it21:11
amri think he's using some stupid definition of illegal, where anything that goes against his opinion is outlawed21:11
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lcukamr, sounds about right21:11
Luke-Jrlcuk: your CD would require source or an offer21:12
amroh, apparently he's being serious21:12
lcukthats different, if you ask me for a napkin ill give you one, but im not gonna put a sign up offering free ones21:12
lcukand you cant have a napkin unless you buy my cd21:13
lcukor pay for the delivery costs21:13
Luke-Jrlcuk: you're required to offer the source with the CD, if the code isn't on the CD itself21:13
Luke-Jrfurthermore, the offer must be valid for anyone, not merely persons who purchased the CD from you21:14
lcukyeah sure, come and pick up the source21:15
lcukor ill mail it you, but it will cost you $10 for courier21:15
Luke-Jrexactly XD21:16
lcukour offices are located on the north face of everest, 24,000 foot above sea level21:17
* lcuk would actually like to distribute source only21:18
lcukfor even end user grandmas to get programs from source21:18
lcukand have them compiled on demand21:18
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lcuk(or grandpas :P Myrtti)21:18
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RST38hmoo all21:29
RST38hHave the news about one of three Maemo5 devices having different hardware been already posted to talk?21:36
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jakemaheui was not aware of this21:37
qwerty12_N810RST38h: no, the current debate is "multi-touch". ffs21:37
jakemaheudo we actually have a use for multi-touch beside eye candy?21:38
slonopotamusjakemaheu, does _anyone_ have a real use for it? :)21:39
jakemaheunot anything exceptionally useful21:39
jakemaheumaybe a touchscreen keyboard21:39
jakemaheubut that would such21:39
slonopotamusmultitouch kb???21:40
amrso you could press shift and anothe char21:40
amror for gaming controls? thatd be pretty handy21:40
RST38hqwerty: More iPhone trolls or the same ones not able to hit the bucket by popular request?21:40
jakemaheuexcept when you slightly move your fingers down and crouch when you're trying to run from the heavy fire of a mingun21:41
slonopotamusamr, that only requires double-, not multi- :)21:41
jakemaheuor a regular kb21:41
amrdon't be pedantic21:41
slonopotamusnothing can be more usable than hw kb :) trust me, i'm n800 owner21:42
amrmany devices do fine without one21:42
jakemaheusame here21:42
amri have an n810 and the keyboard is nice21:42
amrbut i coped just fine on my 77021:42
qwerty12_N810RST38h: same ones... beats me why they're on Talk. But, anyway, is more details known of this hardware difference? :)21:43
jakemaheui have a ppc-6700 (htc apache) that has a slide out kb and its okay21:43
jakemaheucluncky tho21:43
Luke-Jramr: you must have never used a Zaurus21:43
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amrno because i'm not talking about devices from the 90s21:43
Luke-JrZaurus keyboard was far superior to N810 kb21:43
RST38hqwerty: The info was mentioned in Eldar's twitter21:44
* slonopotamus had psion long time ago. its kb was really cool21:44
RST38hqwerty: What will it cost to make Reggie insert "iPhone" into the list of indecent words to be blocked?21:44
amrwhy bother?21:45
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Ah, thanks...21:45
jakemaheuor a reacharound21:46
qwerty12_N810RST38h: An iTard hopefully21:46
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jakemaheua troll from Engadget21:46
qwerty12_N810I wonder what Jobs does to have so many fans who'd love to buttfuck him21:46
doc|homeqwerty12_N810: produces good products :/21:47
doc|homeI'm quite liking my ipod touch, except for the whole app store thing21:47
amrwhile its annoying to be an apple fanboy, its just, if not more, annoying to be totally anti-apple21:47
doc|homesorry, just thought it had to be said :/21:47
amryea i like my brother's ipod touch21:47
Luke-Jrwhy? Apple is worse than Microsfot21:47
jakemaheuapple makes nice products that are usually well-designed, but they come at a high premium21:48
slonopotamusit's not anti-apple. it's anti-closed-sw/hw21:48
jakemaheunuff said21:48
amrthe vast majority of people dont give a toss about closed sw/hw, though21:48
doc|homeqwerty12_N810: I avoided buying apple stuff for so long, then dell gave me crap on my xps laptop so I said "screw this, maybe pay more, get more" and bought a macbook. It's great how it all integrates seamlessly.21:48
amrthey sell well designed stuff, it works21:48
amryeah i absolutely love my macbook21:49
RST38hOh no not Apple advocacy attack again21:49
doc|homeI connect my ipod touch to my macbook, do a sync and it copies all my mail settings over, podcasts, music.21:49
* RST38h got a Toshiba Portege. Lighter than MacBook Air. And three (3) times cheaper.21:49
doc|homeRST38h: no, this isn't about advocacy. This is about what they're doing right and is being ignored by a lot of others.21:49
amrRST38h, can i run mac os x on that?21:49
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doc|homeRST38h: let me know when you can buy it without windows :/21:49
doc|homeI'd have been very very happy with ubuntu21:49
RST38hamr: Probably, but I am running real OS on it21:49
Luke-Jrdoc|home: if it's closed, everything else is irrelevant21:50
qwerty12_N810doc|home: Ah, I dislike Dell too... I have a Dell monitor that got a red line going from the top to the bottom after about 4 months of using it21:50
RST38hdoc: Why? I needed Windows and got it with XP.21:50
doc|homeqwerty12_N810: yep, it's rubbish :/21:50
Luke-Jrjakemaheu: that's illegal21:50
amrjakemaheu, not really legal though is it21:50
jakemaheuwho cares?21:50
Luke-Jrobviously not you21:50
doc|homeeveryone's ignoring my point. Stuff just works. It's seamless.21:50
doc|homethat's what I want21:50
amrdoc|home, i agree21:50
Luke-Jrdoc|home: irrelevant if closed21:50
amrif you want os x, you buy apple21:50
amrif you like it, great21:50
RST38hdoc: Your point is that you have a MacBook and love it and want us all to love it.21:50
amrif not, shut the fuck up21:50
amryou cant deny theyre very good21:50
doc|homeLuke-Jr: no! not irrelevant. You have to stay relevant.21:50
doc|homeRST38h: *sigh*21:51
jakemaheuhang on and i'll post a pic of my download folders21:51
RST38hdoc: Out point is that you should stick your MacBook where light does not shine =)21:51
doc|homeRST38h: no, that is not my point21:51
* GAN800 chuckles.21:51
doc|homeRST38h: if I could do the same on ubuntu I'd be happy. But I can't.21:51
GAN800To each his own.21:51
RST38hDo what? Stick an Ubuntu MacBook where light does not shine?21:51
doc|homeRST38h: you don't need to be rude. It achieves nothing.21:51
amrthe problem with linux fanboys, is that theyre worse than apple ones21:51
doc|homeRST38h: you're completely ignoring what my point was21:51
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RST38hdoc: After reading itt, I am somewhere between rude and violent21:52
GAN800Fanboys and zealots are bad no matter the platform.21:52
GAN800RST38h, sounds like it's time to take a break and visit with the family.21:52
RST38hGAN: That is the funny part, I *am* with the family, vacationing in Greece21:52
doc|homeRST38h: someone mentioned being irrelevant. It's irrelevant to most people (the market) as it stands now that it's open if it's not as nice to use. That's just the reality of it.21:53
derfRST38h: WTF are you doing on IRC, then.21:53
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RST38hGAN: So I am not even taking too much time to read into itt )imagine what would happen if I did)21:53
amri concur, doc|home21:53
Luke-Jrdoc|home: the idiotic part of the market21:53
doc|homeLuke-Jr: the paying part21:53
RST38hderf: Partaking in global conscience, as always21:53
amrthe part with the money21:53
amrdamn, too slow21:53
mkpaafor some unknown reason my canola has stopped playing any sounds. sounds on other programs work fine and canola worked when I last used it couple of months ago. any idea what could be wrong?21:53
derfI didn't realize the globe had a conscience.21:53
RST38hderf: Depends on whose globe it is, I guess21:54
doc|homeLuke-Jr: I'm not saying it should be closed. Waaay better if it's not of course. But you can't ignore that they are buying macbooks, iphones, ipod touches.21:54
slonopotamusmkpaa, it hsas its own volume control, no?21:54
Luke-JrApple steals the good developers from the open source community? :þ21:54
doc|homeLuke-Jr: I so wanted an open phone I coughed up 400 dollars for an openmoko freerunner. That still doesn't work.21:54
RST38hGentlemen, could you please just leave Apple alone?21:54
glass_Luke-Jr: they'll get pissed off with apple in no time21:54
doc|homeLuke-Jr: it's not stealing. it's paying.21:54
RST38hIt is a good company producing very well made objects of technology21:55
Luke-Jrdoc|home: bribing?21:55
doc|homeLuke-Jr: what use is open if the device sucks21:55
glass_RST38h: "designing" objects of technology, based on tech they just buy usually21:55
mmu_screenthey just throw a bit too much of DRM and closed stuff21:55
amrglass_, it works though21:55
glass_amr: yeh, i got an ipod21:55
doc|homeLuke-Jr: no, paying. The world runs on money. Have you never had to compromise something to pay the bills?21:55
amrsee :)21:55
Luke-JrGPL should be law21:55
RST38hglass: ah, a mere technicality, especially considering that they must control those chinese reeeeally tight21:55
jakemaheuGood god, you people are terrible.21:55
glass_amr: but it has bugs, despite being a 5th gen product21:55
doc|homeLuke-Jr: I really hope you're joking21:56
derfRST38h: I assume one of your family members has now confiscated your Protege.21:56
Luke-Jrdoc|home: only slightly.21:56
amrhow old is Luke-Jr?21:56
* RST38h uses GPL to wipe up21:56
* doc|home sighs21:56
glass_RST38h: umm, i was referring to where they've gotten the bits of 'innovation'21:56
RST38hderf: Nope =)21:56
Luke-Jramr: 24/m+/321:56
doc|homeLuke-Jr: that is pretty close to promoting some form of communism/socialism in software. You must share!21:56
RST38hglass: There is no innovation in Apple product21:56
Luke-Jrdoc|home: GPL doesn't say you must share.21:56
Luke-Jrdoc|home: GPL only says whoever buys it can do what they want with it21:56
mmu_screengee a GPL troll21:56
doc|homeLuke-Jr: it does if you wish to distribute21:56
RST38hglass: Actually, there isn't innovation in most products that sell well21:56
* mmu_screen slurps 21:57
qwerty12_N810mmu_screen: s/GPL//21:57
RST38hglass: Innovative stuff usually does not sell :)21:57
jakemaheueveryone look at this:
mmu_screenI eat them for breakfast ;à21:57
Luke-Jrdoc|home: if I buy something, I should be able to do whatever I want with it21:57
jakemaheuthat is my bittorrent folder21:57
glass_RST38h: uhm, world history is full of stuff that says otherwise. maxim machine gun was innovative and sold pretty well21:57
amrjakemaheu, congratulations, you can bit torrent21:57
jakemaheuthat isn't even all of it21:57
amrwelcome to the internet21:57
doc|homeLuke-Jr: and the reason you can't is *because* of legislation.21:57
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doc|homeLuke-Jr: e,g, dmca21:57
Luke-Jrif I buy a few chairs, I can rebuild them into a bed21:57
RST38hglass: I am sure that long before Maxim there were similar designs that did not sell :)21:57
Luke-Jrand sell that21:57
glass_RST38h: what i was referring to was the companies that apple has bought in the last 10 years and then blatantly just relabeling stuff as theirs21:57
amryou downloaded the da vinci code, good lord.21:57
jakemaheuthat's about 100GB of data21:57
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jakemaheumy grandma wanted it21:58
RST38hglass: Examples?21:58
Luke-Jrif I buy a program, I should be able to use the code in something else, and sell that21:58
glass_RST38h: no, gatling was different design21:58
jakemaheui like house too21:58
glass_RST38h: clickwheel? whole ipod classic os? etc?21:58
RST38hglass: iPod classic had an OS?21:58
Luke-Jrdoc|home: GPL merely aims to restore those same property rights21:58
doc|homeLuke-Jr: not even close21:58
glass_RST38h: it has downloadable games and shit too21:58
RST38hglass: I mean, it was not that ThreadX-based abomination from Sigmatel?21:58
Luke-Jryes, it has some negative side effects21:58
glass_RST38h: well what you call an os..21:59
Luke-Jrbut that is it's goal21:59
doc|homeLuke-Jr: why have rules to negate bad rules. Get rid of the initial rules.21:59
RST38hglass: Accidentally, I am well acquainted with the original iPod hardware21:59
Luke-Jrdoc|home: that's why I was slightly joking :þ21:59
doc|homeLuke-Jr: anyway, we've digressed. What I want in a device is seamless integration. :/21:59
Luke-Jrdoc|home: but even if we abolish copyright altogether, companies will be able to distribute blobs to get most of the same purpose21:59
amrit's conversations like this that make me hope half of you never get into a position where you have a say over how ANYTHING runs21:59
RST38hglass: And as I understand, Apple either wrote their own OS for STMP hardware or they used the stuff from SigmaTel21:59
glass_RST38h: the stupidest thing i've encountered is when it locks up in sw so that you can't get it to boot, or shutdown.. have to just wait till battery goes22:00
Luke-Jrdoc|home: yes, I often wish I could be hired to write the software for a device22:00
RST38hglass: So I do not see what company they had to buy for that22:00
slonopotamusdoc|home, don't tell us that itunes is 'seamless'22:00
Luke-Jrdoc|home: just so I have something usable22:00
doc|homeslonopotamus: I never said perfect :)22:00
RST38hglass: That is common for recent ARM-based designs missing reset button :)22:00
doc|homeslonopotamus: itunes itself annoys me, but it's there and it mostly works. I sync every day. It updates my music, podcasts, mail accounts, done. No worrying22:01
glass_RST38h: dunno. my nokias never seem to do that. and the ipod is supposed to have some watchdog for it. it's really annoying when it does that, it even leaves the hd spinning22:01
amrim quite fond of itunes22:01
doc|homeslonopotamus: doing the same for rhythmbox or songbird or something would be amazing22:01
amri even use it on my windows pc22:01
Luke-JriTunes does mail now? wtf?22:01
RST38hglass: My Nokia requires removing the battery every now and then22:01
Luke-Jrplease no.22:01
amrLuke-Jr, it synchronises ipods22:01
RST38hglass: When I am especially cruel to it22:01
Luke-Jrmy ipod doesn't do mail22:01
* slonopotamus uses rsync. and you know what? it just works :D22:01
doc|homeLuke-Jr: no, it just syncs it22:01
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: that's 1 direction22:01
RST38hwell use two rsyncs22:01
doc|homeslonopotamus: you think the average moron wants to mess with rsync? :/22:02
Luke-Jruse git22:02
lcukRST38h, rather annoying, thankfully, dropping the battery out of an n810 is a relaxing rewarding experience22:02
Luke-Jrthen you can do merges22:02
doc|homeslonopotamus: I plugged it in first day and it Just Worked22:02
Luke-Jrlcuk: what? it's a pain in the butt22:02
RST38hlcuk: You should have tried "dropping battery" out of B3-34...22:02
lcukthe "clang of the flimsy shell on the surface is satisfying22:02
doc|homepersonally, I don't even have time to mess with rsync scripts :/22:02
amrnor do most people22:02
Luke-Jrdoc|home: git pull && git push22:03
lcukand havign to rebend any pins knocked out by this procedure just makes it more fun22:03
doc|homeLuke-Jr: how many people even know what git is? :/22:03
slonopotamusdoc|home, okaaay. the problem with me (and luke) is that we want freedom. we want to use things for what we want, not only what its vendor made it for.22:03
amrno one gives a toss what the underlying tecnology is, they want it to do X and do it now22:03
mkpaacanola has own volume control, but it is not the problem22:03
doc|homeLuke-Jr: and how do I do that between evolution and claws mail/the default mail client?22:03
RST38hslono: problem with Luke is that he is an open source zealot22:03
doc|homeslonopotamus: so do I, like I said, I even wanted it so much as to buy an openmoko freerunner. That freerunner is still sitting in it's pouch in front of me because it doesn't work22:04
RST38hslono: I am not aware of any problems with you, but that may simply be my ignorance :)22:04
lcukslonopotamus, freedom isnt the problem here.  you can both do that.  and by the same tune, we are free to stick with what we got22:04
slonopotamusdoc|home, you use same imap server and do not mess with client apps22:04
doc|homeslonopotamus: yeah, lcuk brings up a good point. Freedom won't prevent these things from existing22:04
Luke-Jrdoc|home: my gitbackup script takes care of one direction :þ22:04
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: IMAP requires network22:05
doc|homeslonopotamus: already the case22:05
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, what's the point in mail app without network?22:05
lcuknice calendar, contact list22:05
lcuktodo app22:05
doc|homeit might be useful if people try a friend's devices and see how well it integrates to get what I mean22:05
lcukoutlook works perfectly without any net22:05
doc|homeLuke-Jr: there's local storage I think on most clients22:06
amrit's quite refreshing to hear lcuk's and doc|home's opinions22:06
eichii have sometimes the problem, that the screen never goes black, its allways low light...bad for battery22:06
doc|homeif we could have the integration *and* the openness my ipod touch would be on craigslist tomorrow :)22:07
lcukamr, which bits?22:07
amrpretty much the last 20 mins22:07
jakemaheuWhat is with firefox not releasing memory?22:08
slonopotamusjakemaheu, ...22:08
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: reviewing emails you already received22:08
jakemaheuI'll run it for a while and it'll go slow (taking 350MB of RAM), then I close it22:08
jakemaheubut the process is still running, sucking up memory22:08
slonopotamusjakemaheu, you're from another planet? it always worked that way22:08
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: cleaning your mailbox on a plane?22:08
jakemaheuIsn't that broken then?22:09
slonopotamusjakemaheu, killall firefox22:09
jakemaheuWindows XP22:09
jakemaheui kill it manually still22:09
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jakemaheubut it's a hassle22:09
jakemaheuit's even worse when I'm browsing /hr/ for high-resolution images and the memory usage shoots up22:10
jakemaheubut it never comes back down22:10
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, bme!!!22:10
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slonopotamusLuke-Jr, btw22:11
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, i need help with reversing of libcal crc algorithm. it does it somehow wrong22:13
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, data_crc != zlib_crc32(data)22:13
* RST38h as an offtopic mentions how he absolutely HATES FireFox 3.x "smart" url bar22:14
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derfFile a bug?22:15
RST38hderf: useless22:15
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, wut?22:15
RST38hderf: the bar itself is a bug22:15
derfWell, if you have more cogent feedback than that, I can talk to the developers.22:15
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, i thought you have reversing skills :)22:15
RST38hderf: The problem has been discussed ad nauseum22:15
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: not a 5 minute job22:16
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jakemaheuI like the smart bar...22:16
RST38hderf: Basicallym when I start typing the url in, I expect the bar to immediately autocomplete it for me or at worst not do anything22:16
RST38hderf: As it is though, the bar PAUSES for 2-3 seconds, then gives me a wonderful, detailed list of matches, of which I only need the top one anyway22:17
RST38hderf: I do not give a shit about its cute list. I just want it to work, immediately.22:17
jakemaheuThen be a real man and memorize the url.22:18
jakemaheuWait, a few seconds?22:18
lcukamr, ive had these impressions for a long time22:18
derfSounds like your complaint could be solved with some simple performance optimization.22:18
slonopotamusjakemaheu, it doesn't prevent it from slowing down22:18
RST38hderf: The problem has been present since 3.0 and it is 3.5 now22:18
jakemaheuIt never takes that long for me-- and my computer is old.22:18
RST38hderf: I also played with settings but could not "optimize" this feature away22:18
lcukjust nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure.22:19
RST38hderf: My guess is that it os doing some sqlite queries or whatever22:19
derfI wouldn't doubt it.22:19
derf"But databases are fast, aren't they?"22:20
RST38hI also suspect that it happens because I have not cleared history for months22:20
slonopotamusthey should just make it asynchronous, i think22:20
slonopotamusderf, if used properly22:20
RST38hthey apparently have22:20
lcukderf bah22:20
RST38hjust not asynchronous enough I guess22:20
lcukive all but dropped sqlite right now after a move22:20
qwerty12_N810RST38h: My FF 3.5 history dated 6 months back and using the bar would make FF shitslow22:21
RST38hqwerty: exactly22:21
lcukthat took saving an image from practically instant to something i could literally twiddle thumbs waiting on22:21
lcuksketch ^22:21
derflcuk: That was me doing my best to impersonate a clueless developer.22:21
lcukheh, you should always mention microsoft access when discussing real databases22:22
derflcuk: I've already had that conversation once today.22:22
RST38hReal DB programmers always refer to DBASE III as the benchmark22:22
lcuksqlite is the closest thing to sqlite tho22:22
slonopotamusrdhi, rdlo and rm must all be different22:23
derfIt went something like this. "So my client asked me if I could use Access. I told her, 'No. I can't.'"22:23
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RST38hderf: It was a wrong answer of course22:24
RST38hderf: The right answer is "I can, but it will cost you extra 50% hourly rate"22:24
slonopotamusbetter explain me what does libtool do :)22:24
derfRST38h: I'm not sure that's worth it.22:24
RST38hslono: satisfies somebody's itch to write tools22:25
derf_I_ wouldn't do it for an extra 50%.22:25
RST38hderf: "Bablo pobezhdaet zlo", if you still remember the language22:25
slonopotamusRST38h, but why so many packages use it?22:25
* lcuk burnt libtool in fire22:25
RST38hslono: Because their authors think it is required22:26
slonopotamuslcuk, RST38h, it must be doing smth useful for them, no?22:26
RST38hwell, sometimes22:26
lcukdidnt do anything useful for my library22:26
lcukinfact, the whole autotools process made it hairy22:26
slonopotamusbut what?22:26
slonopotamuslibtool: install: warning: remember to run `libtool --finish /usr/lib'22:26
slonopotamusi haven't  seen a single thing running libtool --finish :D22:27
derfRST38h: Remember?22:27
derfI don't recall ever knowing Russian.22:27
RST38hderf: I vaguely remember that you lived in .Ru for some time22:27
RST38hderf: Although it may have been the other guy22:27
derfYou may be thinking of someone else.22:27
RST38hderf: But anyway, in translation it will be "Money defeats the evil" =)22:28
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lcukyeah, but you have to swing the bag of it really hard and contact with evil's head22:29
RST38hHmm.. Speaking of money, Mr Arshad wants some, says he has won EU lottery22:29
lcuk:D does he require your assistance?22:30
RST38hOf course22:30
derf14:56:54 < gmaxwell> oh shit. The chinese have discovered the '419' scam.22:30
RST38hEve Online just kicked them out, gotta find another source of online income22:30
RST38hOk, sleep time22:30
lcukyou heard about everyone who went mental on facebook this week having a getout clause - hackers from the chans22:30
jakemaheulcuk: what?22:31
lcukerrr, thats not parsing correctly, everyone who went nuts on facebook this week and posted random stuff they shouldnt have done22:31
lcukhave a get out clause and can just blame 4chan hackers22:31
derfjakemaheu: It's looks like English, but that is deceptive.22:32
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jakemaheuthat's gotta be the worst excuse I've ever heard22:32
jakemaheuthat's something Fox News would say22:33
jakemaheuor, Faux News, if you will22:33
lcukyeah, and now since it started spreading people are playing up deliberately22:33
jakemaheuoh god22:33
jakemaheuRULES 1 + 222:33
lcukcos they can blame the hackers22:33
lcuksome networks are like tourettes channels22:33
jakemaheuor else this will happen:
derfYay internets. You will never cease to be a bastion of amusement.22:33
lcuki hope i dont need that excuse.22:34
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qwerty12_N810RST38h: I just recieved that same e-mail =)22:40
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Macervo_ivtv.c: In function 'ivtv_reset':22:46
Macervo_ivtv.c:79: error: storage size of 'sd' isn't known22:46
Macervo_ivtv.c:80: error: storage size of 'sd1' isn't known22:46
Macervo_ivtv.c:84: error: 'IVTV_STOP_FL_HIDE_FRAME' undeclared (first use in this function)22:46
Macerok. that was way more than i meant to paste22:46
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slonopotamusi set up qemu choot23:16
slonopotamusi can run arm binaries on x86_64! :D23:16
woglindenothing special23:17
slonopotamuswoglinde, haven't done it before23:17
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slonopotamusjohnsq, hi23:29
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slonopotamusjohnsq, i built qemu, btw. arm-linux-user target has no problems, arm-mmu doesn't build statically23:30
zapfor those who read russian:
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johnsqslonopotamus: for what do you need the arm-mmu?23:30
wazdzap: wow! RX-51 review!23:30
zerojayPCzap: There's an english one.. and we all read it already.23:30
wazdzap: :D23:31
slonopotamusjohnsq, dunno. i just built everything with 'arm' 'cause i wasn't sure what exactly i need23:31
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johnsqslonopotamus: the qemu-arm is all needed to compile and test23:33
Luke-Jruh no23:35
Luke-Jrqemu-arm per default will segfault on N8x0 bins23:35
Luke-Jrgotta write a C wrapper to add a -cpu option23:35
slonopotamusi have sh wrapper :)23:35
johnsqLuke-Jr: yea, right, i wrote a shell script wrapper with bash sh23:35
ProteousI just wrote a small shell script that replaces johnsq23:37
Proteousinfact, it's actualy better23:37
johnsqlatest pixman didn't compile, it says i should enable arm-neon! what is arm-neon?23:37
Proteousjohnsq script knows that shit23:37
Proteoussee, directly better23:38
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Luke-Jrslonopotamus: johnsq: you can't really do that, n00bs23:38
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slonopotamusLuke-Jr, ...23:38
Luke-Jrsh is an ARM bin duh23:38
slonopotamusjust read johnsq webpage23:39
Luke-Jrno u23:39
johnsqLuke-Jr: no static shell 68623:39
Luke-Jrjohnsq: that's cheating23:39
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, you fail23:39
Luke-Jrno u23:39
johnsqLuke-Jr: i just wanted to get it running, c and execl was something to much to code.23:40
Luke-Jrit's 14 lines23:41
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, you wouldn't fail if you published howto with your wrapper :) but you didn't, and johnsq did23:41
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: no u23:42
Luke-JrI gave you my wrapper ages ago23:42
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