IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-08-13

javispedro	hi	00:00
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jeremiah	-c	00:10
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woglinde	ls	00:11
javispedro	exit	00:11
jeremiah	cd / rm -rf	00:11
javispedro	once that focus stealing thing happened to me, and I typed "exit" into a pidgin window	00:11
javispedro	my friend replied "exit: Cannot exit"	00:11
zerojay	/nick test	00:12
zerojay	Heh	00:12
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johnsq	jeremiah: da fehlt ein ;	00:15
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woglinde	johnsq nö	00:16
zerojay	Finally going home.	00:21
woglinde	hm seems golem.de tested the t91 with the wrong driver for the poulsbo	00:21
johnsq	woglinde: too expensive, too unusable.	00:24
woglinde	yeah to expensive	00:25
jeremiah	johnsq: Eh?	00:25
woglinde	but the poulsbo can play flash with outproblems	00:25
jeremiah	Vad snackar du om?	00:25
woglinde	http://edc.intel.com/Software/Downloads/IEGD/#download	00:25
johnsq	jeremiah: pc t91, ~ 450 euro, not usable outside, not usable keyboard, ...	00:26
javispedro	"Embedded" 120 MiB-ish graphics drivers.	00:27
jeremiah	johnsq: Ah. I see.	00:27
jeremiah	Makes perfect sense.	00:27
woglinde	javispedro hehe its because of eclipse	00:27
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woglinde	johnsq and you cant replace the slow internal 16gb ssd	00:28
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johnsq	how long last the battery?	00:29
woglinde	johnsq similiar to the others	00:29
woglinde	or longer becaus of the z atom with 1,3 ghz	00:29
woglinde	up to 7 hours	00:30
woglinde	I bet	00:30
johnsq	that would be a plus point	00:30
johnsq	no only 3 1/2 hours, last side	00:31
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woglinde	uh	00:31
woglinde	my 901 can live up to 6 hours	00:31
Mace_N8x0	my aspire1 lasts 5hrs	00:31
Mace_N8x0	max	00:31
Mace_N8x0	of use	00:32
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johnsq	my samsung q1 with big battery pack lasts ~8hours	00:32
Mace_N8x0	my vaporware touch book lasts 16 hrs	00:32
zerojay	N810 & mugen battery?	00:32
Mace_N8x0	hahaha	00:32
woglinde	macer when will you get it?	00:33
woglinde	are you on the first batch?	00:33
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woglinde	jo florian	00:36
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woglinde	wow iegd is now at xerver 1.5	00:39
RST38h	Morrrre vuuuups	00:39
johnsq	is there a xserver which joins two computer displays?	00:42
javispedro	http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ ?	00:42
johnsq	javispedro: this more like x2x. I think about two n810 which have a joint display = window spans both displays	00:43
pupnik	javispedro: i am not aware of what you do normally... besides this awesome thing.	00:44
pupnik	are you going to amsterdam?	00:44
woglinde	pupnik?	00:44
pupnik	i just wonder who this guy is	00:44
woglinde	what awesome thing?	00:44
javispedro	the snes emu I guess :P	00:44
pupnik	the gp2x super nintendo emulator. he did it sensibly. not like what i tried.	00:44
woglinde	ah okay	00:45
pupnik	or 'is doing'	00:45
javispedro	you asked me yesterday if I remember well... it's early for me to tell	00:45
woglinde	doesnt run the emu on the n810?	00:45
johnsq	a good emulator would be another good use of the n810.	00:46
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javispedro	i'm starting my last academic year in a month, so it's gonna be fun	00:48
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Proteous	a good snes emulator on the n810 would be much improved if they keyboard and d-pad didn't suck for playing games.	00:50
johnsq	Proteous: use a wii mote	00:51
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javispedro	i personally want a good super mario kart playing machine :D	00:53
johnsq	javispedro: with multiplayer support	00:54
woglinde	hm n810 with bluetooth controller	00:54
javispedro	johnsq, plausible, code is there but disabled.	00:54
RST38h	javis: Buy a Mini	00:54
javispedro	Mini as in the car? You want me to get arrested ? ;)	00:55
zerojay	Get a used psp.	00:55
woglinde	get a pandora	00:56
woglinde	duck and hide	00:56
RST38h	javis: Only if you drive Koopa off the road	00:56
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* javispedro would buy a DS if he knew he'd use it for more than an hour.		00:57
RST38h	javis: One word: Castlevania	00:57
johnsq	javispedro: you can install linux on the nds	00:57
javispedro	lol it has SDL.	00:57
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javispedro	is osso-games-startup worth the effort?	01:03
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pupnik	governments are fucking satan	01:32
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derf	I hope he's enjoying it.	01:32
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chx	WORKS	01:34
chx	On tablet	01:34
chx	Rtcomm	01:34
chx	Oh joy	01:35
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woglinde	chx why not?	01:36
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chx	It failed quite a few times	01:37
javispedro	as usual, the tablet battery fails middle flower cup	01:38
woglinde	good nite	01:39
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pupnik	ok. i am not renting anything for the maemo summit. i will sleep in my car and donate the savings (200 EURO) to antiwar.com	01:41
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pupnik	and quim, i WAS the 100th to join the summit	01:42
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pupnik	you know what rules?	02:10
pupnik	no maemo summits in USA	02:10
javispedro	lol :D	02:10
pupnik	no arrests, no stealing of laptops	02:10
javispedro	i'm looking at the whole snesadvance.dat thing	02:11
javispedro	seems they make "idle loops" shorter or things like that	02:12
z4chh	how does maemo autostart daemons at boot? e.g. sshd?	02:12
* javispedro thinks about the possiblity of replacing those idle loops with some invalid opcode trapped by the cpuemu and sleep()		02:12
javispedro	(like the mac emulator does)	02:13
javispedro	z4chh, sysvinit. like your desktop debian mostly.	02:13
javispedro	(in fremantle it is is replaced about upstartd which I know nothing about)	02:13
javispedro	s/about/with/	02:13
infobot	javispedro meant: (in fremantle it is is replaced with upstartd which I know nothing about)	02:13
z4chh	rofl @ the bot	02:14
zerojayPC	javispedro: Yeah, it's mostly stuff like that.	02:14
pupnik	cool javispedro	02:14
pupnik	but don't let cpu governor drop to low mhz :)	02:14
javispedro	documented here: http://www.snesadvance.org/files/txt/technotes.txt	02:14
javispedro	very well written	02:15
pupnik	yep read it. absorbed maybe 10%	02:15
zerojayPC	The PSP version of SNES9x allowed you to use the snesadvance speedhacks as well and for the most part, they work great.	02:15
pupnik	i am under the impression that the gp2x guys put in a lot of work to make snes9x run fast under ARM	02:16
javispedro	seems so, and according to their notes they've gotten it faster than what I currently get	02:16
zerojayPC	Yeah, PSP has most games at 45-60fps.	02:17
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javispedro	which emu zerojay?	02:17
javispedro	oh, PSP is MIPS	02:18
zerojayPC	One of the SNES9x ports.. can't remember the name offhand.	02:19
zerojayPC	I scrobble all the music I listen to.... and I go to the last.fm site for the first time in months and I have 20 or so friends requests.	02:19
zerojayPC	Every single last one of them is from someone living in Germany.	02:19
zerojayPC	That wouldn't be all that odd if I lived there but I'm Canadian.	02:20
pupnik	my music friends tell me what to buy, and give me ftp and streams	02:21
pupnik	but last.fm is kind of the new napster, isn't it	02:22
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zerojayPC	Nah.	02:22
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zerojayPC	Mainly about creating a profile and seeing what you listen to and getting recommendations. Also does streaming radio.	02:23
Proteous	I was attempting to hack a bluetooth keyboard into a NES controller but I couldn't come up with enough space for the keyboard circuit board and a battery pack that would fit in the controller body	02:23
Proteous	have to make an external batterypack or something.	02:24
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Proteous	hmm, or make a bus powered version that connects via USB	02:31
Proteous	although a bluetooth one would be more usefull with other devices	02:32
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Mace_N8x0	hi	02:45
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zerojayPC	Hey.	02:46
Mace_N8x0	zerojayPC, you might want to tell them the names list is broken too	02:46
Mace_N8x0	heh	02:46
zerojayPC	What's wrong with the names list?	02:47
Mace_N8x0	you cant msg ppl using the rtcom names list	02:47
zerojayPC	I almost always turn that off.	02:47
zerojayPC	Yeah, I did notice that.	02:47
Mace_N8x0	nor can you scroll down	02:47
zerojayPC	I will.	02:47
Mace_N8x0	and click on someone	02:47
zerojayPC	I was able to scroll, but when you click on someone, it pops you back up to the top.	02:47
Mace_N8x0	because it just goes back to the top of the list	02:47
Mace_N8x0	yeah heh	02:47
zerojayPC	I'll enter them after I'm done with this one.	02:47
Mace_N8x0	other than those little things	02:48
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Mace_N8x0	this is pretty awesome	02:48
zerojayPC	Guess I should add myself to Bugsquad, huh?	02:48
Mace_N8x0	haha	02:48
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zerojayPC	Yeah, RTCOMM is pretty great in general... just a lot of rough edges.	02:48
Mace_N8x0	you might ask	02:48
Mace_N8x0	that they add irc #s to the contact list	02:49
Mace_N8x0	so you dont have to go through ten things	02:49
Mace_N8x0	and using the irc net as the name instead of the nick would help too	02:50
zerojayPC	Well, telepathy-idle won't be a part of Fremantle anyways as far as I know, so... unless there's another RTCOMM release, it won't matter anyways. :/	02:50
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Mace_N8x0	:(	02:50
zerojayPC	But yeah, I'll suggest them anyways.	02:50
Mace_N8x0	well, we can only hope they stick with maemo4	02:50
zerojayPC	You never know what may or may not be happening behind the curtain, so it's just better to report them anyways.	02:50
Mace_N8x0	otherwise im going to have to learn how to code haha	02:51
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Robot101	zerojayPC: we (Collabora) are planning to update the 3rd party telepathy backends for fremantle	02:51
Mace_N8x0	Robot101, are you ditching diablo? :)	02:52
Mace_N8x0	can you fix those things first haha	02:52
zerojayPC	Robot101: Are you going to be at Maemo Summit?	02:52
Robot101	zerojayPC: we'll probably send some people, yeah	02:53
Robot101	we should probably, er, plan that a bit more	02:53
Robot101	:)	02:53
zerojayPC	Because if you are... and if I get sponsorship... I'm going to kiss you, sir.	02:53
Mace_N8x0	"Summit"	02:53
Robot101	we're kinda busy working on fremantle atm though :)	02:53
* GeneralAntilles can never remember if it's one l or two. . . .		02:53
Mace_N8x0	sounds like a bunch of maemo ppl discussing nuclear proliferation	02:53
GeneralAntilles	Mace_N8x0, who says we aren't?	02:54
zerojayPC	Yes, Maemo with Quim Jong Il. :)	02:54
Mace_N8x0	hahaha	02:54
Mace_N8x0	if diablo isnt supported, we are launching!	02:54
GeneralAntilles	Mace_N8x0, I could care less about Diablo.	02:54
GeneralAntilles	Mer is important now.	02:54
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Mace_N8x0	hehe	02:55
Mace_N8x0	lies!	02:55
zerojayPC	GeneralAntilles: Any sort of official knighting needs to be done for me to join Bugsquad?	02:55
* Mace_N8x0 shoves his n810 into a drawer next to his Atari Lynx		02:55
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GeneralAntilles	zerojayPC, stick your name on the Bugsquad wiki page, make sure you have editbugs and go for it.	02:56
Robot101	zerojayPC: I'd be more interested in pushing Empathy and Telepathy into Mer than working on diablo, yeah	02:56
zerojayPC	Pretty sure I've had editbugs for a year or two already.. cool.	02:56
zerojayPC	Robot101: Makes sense to me.	02:56
Robot101	unfortunately we're pretty busy so our interns have been stolen onto other projects right now	02:56
GeneralAntilles	zerojayPC, triaging-streamlining comment templates are available on the Bugsquad pages.	02:57
zerojayPC	GeneralAntilles: Yep, I've already looked through them earlier.	02:57
Mace_N8x0	haha	02:57
GeneralAntilles	Although I never use them myself.	02:57
Mace_N8x0	not the slave......er......interns!	02:57
Robot101	Mace_N8x0: well we tend to put interns on community projects, and keep the paying work for full-time staff	02:58
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lcuk	that sounds like a good strategy Robot101 :)	02:59
Robot101	it has a slightly awkward side-effect of making our community stuff kinda unmaintained just after it gets good	02:59
Mace_N8x0	Robot101, well tell one of the interns to fix the bugs before you leave diablo :)	02:59
lcuk	heh	02:59
zerojayPC	Robot101: Just hearing that you guys are working on telepathy for Fremantle has made my day. I hope that maybe the bugs I'm entering on some of the telepathy packages, IRC (idle) in particular, will be looked at.	02:59
Robot101	so we're pondering some other stuff like google-style 10% time, or accumulating days to work on R&D/community stuff	03:00
zerojayPC	Because right now... idle is one bad little boy. :/	03:00
Robot101	(like you accumulate vacation)	03:00
Mace_N8x0	maybe nokia will do a 360 and have a fremantle for n8x0	03:00
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Robot101	but this stuff is pretty tricky because it makes it harder to negotiate contracts	03:01
Robot101	oh yeah 2 days out of 10 this guy is going to be on vacation for one and hacking on some other shit for another, ok? :P	03:01
GeneralAntilles	Mace_N8x0, there are a variety of reasons why that isn't feasible.	03:01
GeneralAntilles	They've been rehashed and rehashed again.	03:01
GeneralAntilles	That's why we have Mer instead.	03:01
zerojayPC	Is there anyone with a Fremantle device that can check something out for me real quick with the updated Media Player? Just checking to see if a bug still exists or not, very simple and quick.	03:02
Mace_N8x0	damnit	03:02
Mace_N8x0	i got a new debit card	03:02
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Mace_N8x0	and keep finding stuff that is auto paid getting declined because i forgot to change it	03:03
Mace_N8x0	like skype heh	03:03
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GeneralAntilles	Mace_N8x0, yeah, same here. :\	03:08
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Mace_N8x0	ugh	03:15
zerojayPC	wtf... how long after I register on the site does it take to be added to participants on the Maemo Summit wiki page?	03:15
Mace_N8x0	and changing skype's is a pain	03:15
GeneralAntilles	zerojayPC, should be instant.	03:16
GeneralAntilles	Cache issue?	03:16
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zerojayPC	I guess I'll resubmit then... hmm.	03:17
Mace_N8x0	there	03:17
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Mace_N8x0	now i just have to wait for the next screw up	03:17
Mace_N8x0	heh	03:18
lcuk	arghhh	03:18
lcuk	! [rejected] master -> master (non-fast forward)	03:18
lcuk	wtf did i do	03:18
Mace_N8x0	like when i walk into the gym and a giant red light flashes and a buzzer goes off	03:18
lcuk	(git push btw	03:18
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Mace_N8x0	with a DEADBEAT sign scrolling across	03:18
Mace_N8x0	:)	03:19
lcuk	heh Mace_N8x0	03:19
lcuk	did you get dpkg workin?	03:19
zerojayPC	Actually... I might have found a bug in the submission process. Heh.	03:19
Mace_N8x0	still working on it	03:19
Mace_N8x0	i havent had much time the past cpl days	03:19
Mace_N8x0	and	03:19
Mace_N8x0	i had to start logging it because i was getting lost	03:20
lcuk	yeah, its heavy going	03:20
lcuk	things just cascade	03:20
Mace_N8x0	so i started over 3 days ago and started logging the steps on tech.rancorous.net	03:20
Mace_N8x0	yeah	03:20
Mace_N8x0	fast too heh	03:20
lcuk	you start off with "i just need core-utils"	03:20
Mace_N8x0	hahaha	03:20
Mace_N8x0	yeah	03:20
lcuk	;)	03:21
lcuk	its a slippery fucking slope	03:21
lcuk	http://xkcd.com/456/	03:21
Mace_N8x0	more like "i need to make my own coreutils because the pkg sucks and breaks everything"	03:21
Mace_N8x0	haha	03:21
Mace_N8x0	using individual src pkgs	03:21
Mace_N8x0	one at a time	03:22
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lcuk	wget http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/m4/m4-1.4.9.tar.gz	03:22
lcuk	gzip -dc m4-1.4.9.tar.gz \| tar xf -	03:22
lcuk	cd m4-1.4.9	03:22
lcuk	./configure	03:22
lcuk	make	03:22
lcuk	like that ...	03:22
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Mace_N8x0	i think when i start doing that i will call the article "the tangent"	03:22
lcuk	i didnt realise the selection cursor in console was so good	03:22
lcuk	i thought it was silly that it retained selection	03:23
Mace_N8x0	maybe that is what i will name the project	03:23
Mace_N8x0	Tangent	03:23
lcuk	but i see the greatness in it, especially combined with right mouse click	03:23
Mace_N8x0	hahaha	03:23
Mace_N8x0	because that is what it will feel like	03:23
lcuk	heh yeah	03:24
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javispedro	that's a good way to instantly slashdot any page	03:33
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smackpotat	.	04:32
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gogol	quick q: usb gender changer and usb keyboard...require external power or no?	04:33
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smackpotat	depends on how much current your using whats hooked up and waht tablet	04:34
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pupnik	tablet supplies a couple hundred milliamp, yes?	04:34
pupnik	800, 810	04:34
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gogol	i thought i read an n810 could do such a setup without external usb power	04:35
smackpotat	i hooked up a 770 to 16mbflash and usesd a usb hub	04:35
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smackpotat	what are you connecting	04:36
gogol	i dont know yet, shopping :)	04:36
smackpotat	ahhh	04:37
gogol	want to find a small-ish keyboard to use with n810	04:37
gogol	not bluetooth though, seems like a battery killer and probably more than i can afford	04:37
smackpotat	can a wifi doggle be conected	04:37
gogol	i think people have done that? not sure	04:38
gogol	http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&client=google-coop&cof=FORID%3A13%3BAH%3Aleft%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmaemo.org%2F%3BCX%3Amaemo%252Eorg%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Ftalk.maemo.org%2Fmaemo%2Fstyle%2Fimg%2Flogo.jpg%3BLH%3A58%3BLP%3A1%3BVLC%3A%23551a8b%3BGFNT%3A%23666666%3BDIV%3A%23cccccc%3B&adkw=AELymgUqFKWI8AGw3jPWZlO8VHt6JQ7LFmifKo4hfXncUpZvKP-hGVlJZbfNDdOu0yt3QgS2E5P2izMwEs6Gd7s5UNLYOpFBsD3ykF2wPFHnJEAKxjZnD	04:38
gogol	esamYYPTReMEXyNeK52hgQUVo1xIFQdzNLYgaq0Yt-_gKXO6dBKW2QhJ7EomCCz6DM6p7PCjRSPGwmcFHzgJjEq&boostcse=0&q=&btnG=Search&cx=002415088715645836938%3A6esxclqviui is what im using	04:38
gogol	holy shit	04:38
gogol	!	04:38
* gogol needs a tinyurl		04:39
gogol	http://tinyurl.com/q7btxk	04:39
smackpotat	I'd think a keyboard wouldn't draw much power and you'd be ok. but thats a guess	04:43
gogol	im sure there's a thread on it, just have to find it ;_	04:46
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smackpotat	i can't post to maemo talk is that my problem	04:48
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gogol	?	04:48
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divide_by_zero	does anyone change their user-agent string in the NIT browsers so that websites think you use iPhone or other more popular mobile devices, and present you a mobile version of the page?	05:47
Luke-Jr	divide_by_zero: such websites are broken	05:49
divide_by_zero	The other day I made a script to filter the BBS RSS so its links take me to the "clean" version of their pages... I was wondering if I would be automatically sent tehre if they detected me as a mobile device	05:50
divide_by_zero	BBC I mean	05:50
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zerojayPC	Yeah, I can see why you'd need a clean version of the BBC pages: http://bit.ly/1an2Ni	05:55
gogol	so would something like this work with a USB gender changer on an n810? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=usb+mini+keyboard&hl=en&cid=5735096772581395978&sa=title#p	05:57
divide_by_zero	zerojayPC: yeah, must clean all that extra fat! :)	06:01
gogol	without external power? anyone?	06:02
divide_by_zero	I've heard keyboards are OK... don't remember which thread	06:04
divide_by_zero	I'm looking forward to try one myself, but i don't have the gender changer yet	06:04
divide_by_zero	gender changing has always creeped me out	06:05
gogol	i figure the computer industry could use more gender bending	06:06
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gogol	jesus bluetooth ones start at like 60 bucks. re-dick-ulous	06:08
gogol	divide_by_zero: you buy any accessories for your nokia gadgets	06:09
divide_by_zero	nope, I just bought it... It's a N800. I'm saving for a new memory card now.	06:10
divide_by_zero	my nokia phone is a 1100 :)	06:11
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gogol	i got a data plan via t-mobile so i could use google voice and not pay for minutes, but my phone dies in two hours using bluetooth constantly... sigh. i wonder what battery life will be like on the n900 (not like i'll EVER be able to afford it)	06:13
Mace_N8x0	do they call it an n900?	06:14
Mace_N8x0	hi	06:14
* gogol doesnt know shit		06:14
gogol	the rx-51	06:14
gogol	(?)	06:14
Mace_N8x0	i dont know, i was asking ;)	06:15
divide_by_zero	_we_ call it N900 ;)	06:15
divide_by_zero	Nokia doesn't call it anything, it doens't exist :D	06:16
Mace_N8x0	heh	06:16
Mace_N8x0	not at all huh?	06:16
Mace_N8x0	have they started making it?	06:17
* Mace_N8x0 stares at the pandora		06:17
gogol	they made one n900, just for me	06:17
gogol	looks a lot like a worn out n810, but its not	06:17
gogol	its special	06:17
Mace_N8x0	lol	06:17
Mace_N8x0	like the n95 running maemo?	06:18
divide_by_zero	I remember some time ago reading about some company in chine receiving orders for two nokia products. They specilated it might be their netbook and somethingelse. Maybe one of them was the Rover/rx-51/N900	06:18
Mace_N8x0	er	06:19
gogol	nokia has a netbook?	06:19
divide_by_zero	rumors...	06:19
divide_by_zero	http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/atom-based-nokia-netbook-reportedly-on-track-for-q3/	06:19
Mace_N8x0	they did send "c-series" into the patent office	06:19
Mace_N8x0	atom based?	06:20
Mace_N8x0	fail	06:20
Mace_N8x0	fucking.... FAIL, I dont trust engadget tho	06:20
gogol	android-based?	06:20
Mace_N8x0	they are like the national enquirer of the tech world	06:21
pupnik	given the vast oceanic reserves of hatred i have for intel, they could come out with a 100mA SoC that outperforms an Athlon and sucks me off at the same time, and i'd still wish slow death upon them.	06:21
pupnik	no not oceanic	06:21
Mace_N8x0	hahahaha	06:21
Mace_N8x0	thats rough	06:21
gogol	http://www.netbookera.com/n97-the-nokia-netbook-unveiled/	06:22
pupnik	like... the sum of estimated dark matter in the universe	06:22
pupnik	that is my hate	06:22
pupnik	it is bending spacetime to be closed and not open	06:22
Mace_N8x0	n97?	06:22
gogol	well the vid doesnt play for me	06:22
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Mace_N8x0	isnt that a phone?	06:22
Mace_N8x0	heh	06:22
Mace_N8x0	i had an n95	06:22
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Mace_N8x0	well	06:23
Mace_N8x0	if you are going for vastness	06:23
Mace_N8x0	open space would have been a better choice	06:23
divide_by_zero	http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20090226/a-nokia-netbook-seriously/	06:25
gogol	http://www.geekstuff4u.com/mini-bluetooth-keyboard.html?___store=en <--what a deal!	06:25
gogol	what is that, pesos?	06:26
divide_by_zero	that what?	06:26
gogol	and that keyboard is no better than the n810s anyway	06:26
Mace_N8x0	i use my su8w	06:27
Mace_N8x0	it isnt bad	06:27
Mace_N8x0	wish i could get the special keys working	06:27
Mace_N8x0	probably could if i tried	06:27
divide_by_zero	5990 Japanese yen = 62.27204 U.S. dollars	06:28
Mace_N8x0	mmmmkay?	06:29
gogol	ah.	06:29
* gogol <---stupid american		06:29
divide_by_zero	:)	06:30
gogol	can i super size that?	06:30
divide_by_zero	tought you guys used to buy lots of japanese cars ;)	06:30
gogol	ive never bought a car in my life	06:30
gogol	oh wait, a volkswagen for $50	06:30
divide_by_zero	what was that, a VW iPhone app? :)	06:31
gogol	not too hip to world economics	06:31
Mace_N8x0	why are we called americans?	06:31
gogol	after some guy	06:31
gogol	santa claus america-smith	06:31
Mace_N8x0	like, north and south america have quite a few countries	06:31
gogol	oh right	06:32
Mace_N8x0	canada is in north america too	06:32
Mace_N8x0	shouldnt we be unitedians	06:32
gogol	because we're the dumbest, and loudest. and we kill people when we want to.	06:32
Mace_N8x0	or statian?	06:32
Mace_N8x0	hahaha	06:32
gogol	we could decide to call ourselves THE EARTHIANS and nobody would question it im sure	06:33
Mace_N8x0	i just never understood that	06:33
Mace_N8x0	naw	06:33
divide_by_zero	There is the work "Estadunidense" here in Brazil, but we only use it when we are fighting :)	06:33
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Mace_N8x0	if they did we would use our military arsenal to silence them	06:33
gogol	who is 'we'>	06:34
gogol	?	06:34
Mace_N8x0	hahaha	06:34
gogol	i wouldnt fight for anything USA. no way.	06:34
Mace_N8x0	lost my capital letter again	06:34
Mace_N8x0	damnit	06:34
gogol	maybe this is all waay OT.	06:34
Mace_N8x0	bbl	06:34
divide_by_zero	What if the finnish secret service used devices disguised as cell phones to spy on America? Would you fight??	06:36
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genewitch	is there an easy or fancy way to do something like the following pseudo bash set of commands to use my internal card as main storage:	06:39
divide_by_zero	so, using the internet via wi-fi drains the battery?... are there cell phone modems you can use in the usb port?...	06:40
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divide_by_zero	s/wi-fi/bluetooth	06:40
genewitch	mv /usr /media/mmc1/usrbak & rm -f /usr & ln -s /media/mmc1/usr /usr & mv /media/mmc1/usr/* /usr/	06:41
genewitch	divide_by_zero: you can use any tetherable bluetooth phone to surf the internet	06:41
genewitch	oh	06:41
gogol	well it kills my cell phone's battery in a matter of hours. n810 does ok though, probably better than it does over wifi, not sure though.	06:41
genewitch	gogol: have you tried the wimax?	06:42
gogol	no, couldnt afford a whole 'nother tablet	06:42
genewitch	oh	06:42
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genewitch	i just want to know if i can force the nokia to use the card as main storage, since i run out of space on the internal memory really fast	06:43
gogol	use your internal card for main storage for what?	06:43
genewitch	gogol: everything	06:43
genewitch	i want to map /usr to the /media/mmc2/usr	06:43
genewitch	for instance	06:43
gogol	that would be nice!	06:43
genewitch	i have 10 gigs of storage, the 800 only has like <90mb of user storage available	06:43
genewitch	i know that's how Mer does it, the whole of the file system is on the memory card	06:44
gogol	i know there's partitioning tricks that work that way	06:45
gogol	you can has /usr on a separate partition	06:45
genewitch	i know	06:45
gogol	wonder if symlinks would really work...i d k	06:45
genewitch	yeah i know	06:46
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genewitch	however the memory cards are not linux partitions	06:46
genewitch	and you can't access the onboard memory via USB (at least not easily)	06:46
genewitch	if you could access the internal memory you could copy /usr to a type 24 partition on the memory card, then use fstab to make the mountpoint /usr relative to root	06:47
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genewitch	I'm going to back up and reset my device in the next 24 hours	06:48
genewitch	i was just hoping there were guidelines for this	06:48
GAN800	~boot-sd	06:48
infobot	boot-sd is probably https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card	06:48
GAN800	Symlinks are a bad plan for a variety of reasons.	06:49
genewitch	GAN800: roger that.	06:49
GAN800	Just boot straight.	06:49
genewitch	GAN800: any idea which reader is faster and or HC	06:49
genewitch	IE can the internal MMC read 8 gig cards, and is it faster than the "external" one?	06:50
GAN800	I'd just use the internal. They're both about the same speed with faster kernels.	06:51
genewitch	i usually boot mer off the external and it's god awful slow at loading but really perky after it boots	06:51
genewitch	well, ok	06:51
GAN800	Wait, N800 or N810?	06:51
genewitch	thanks for the link, i'm totally doing that.	06:51
genewitch	800	06:51
genewitch	i have two card readers	06:51
GAN800	Ah, it's totally card dependent.	06:51
genewitch	i have ridata 100x cards in both slots	06:52
GAN800	Might want to look at a 48MHz kernel, though.	06:52
genewitch	uh oh	06:52
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GAN800	100x sounds like a class 2	06:52
genewitch	does that run diablo/maemo/whatever or is it custom like mer	06:52
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GAN800	Slow cards, I think.	06:52
GAN800	It's a Diablo kernel with patches.	06:53
genewitch	it's something i can replace later with a faster card, no worries.	06:53
genewitch	my pc writes to them at like 6mb/sec	06:53
GAN800	Might want to order up a 4 or 8GB class 6.	06:53
genewitch	any brand or is ridata cool	06:53
genewitch	I'm sort of a brand loyalist :-p	06:54
GAN800	AData I've had some trouble with.	06:54
GAN800	The rest are mostly equal.	06:54
GAN800	SanDisk is usually significantly better.	06:54
genewitch	alright	06:54
GAN800	But you pay for it.	06:54
genewitch	I don't mind	06:55
genewitch	i have a ton of sandisk "thumbdrives" that i use as swap partitions on various linux boxes around the house	06:55
genewitch	"uh oh this perl script needs 5 gigs of ram... plug in the 4 gigger!"	06:56
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jaem_N810	hello folks	07:05
jaem_N810	Is there a sane way to set up my N810 to share its connection with my (non-wifi-enabled) desktop? Google/t.m.o isn't turning up much for me	07:06
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genewitch	usb networking	07:07
genewitch	?	07:07
jaem_N810	yep	07:07
jaem_N810	but I mean the sharing part	07:07
jaem_N810	networking isn't my forte, and I have no idea how to do that in Maemo	07:07
genewitch	you mean so the PC can use the 810's internet?	07:07
jaem_N810	yep	07:07
jaem_N810	this is just a temporary situation, so I can't justify buying a wifi dongle for the PC	07:08
genewitch	give me a moment my 800 is really busy	07:08
jaem_N810	kk	07:08
genewitch	evidently there's iptables	07:09
genewitch	http://www.revsys.com/writings/quicktips/nat.html	07:09
genewitch	warning, that may break your device or not work.	07:10
jaem_N810	heh	07:10
genewitch	backup and have your maemo installer handy.	07:10
genewitch	as long as you have both device names you can forward from one to the other like that	07:10
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genewitch	you don't have a bluetooth dongle on your pc? they're like $6	07:11
jaem_N810	I have BT	07:11
jaem_N810	well, an excuse for a BT dongle :P	07:11
genewitch	if it does the bt networking you can probably share it that way	07:11
genewitch	you still need to forward with iptables though	07:12
jaem_N810	its HW address is 11:11:11:11:11:11... about what I expected, given the vendor XD	07:12
genewitch	heh	07:12
jaem_N810	okay, that's a thought	07:12
genewitch	the control panel doodad that i have is called "PC-Connectivity Manager"	07:13
genewitch	it lets you set up ad-hoc 802.11 and bt and USB networking	07:13
jaem_N810	oh, nice - thanks	07:13
genewitch	that's on the nokia, btw, not the PC :-p	07:13
jaem_N810	my laptop's in for service, and doing /everything/ on my N810 gets cumbersome	07:13
jaem_N810	yeah - I got that :P	07:14
genewitch	http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_networking	07:14
jaem_N810	thanks	07:15
jaem_N810	I'll look into that	07:15
genewitch	where do you live that you're lucky enough to have wimax?	07:15
jaem_N810	I don't	07:15
jaem_N810	?	07:15
genewitch	how do you ...	07:15
jaem_N810	oh	07:15
genewitch	borrowing the internet from a roommate with a wireless router?	07:16
jaem_N810	my downstairs neighbour let me hook my switch+AP tup to her connection	07:16
genewitch	ah	07:16
jaem_N810	and normally I'd run it through my laptop, but it's not here	07:16
genewitch	gotcha	07:16
jaem_N810	her connection is overkill for her use, so she lets me use it for free, and doesn't miss the bandwidth ;)	07:17
jaem_N810	anyhow, thanks for the help	07:17
jaem_N810	g'night	07:17
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Mace_N8x0	blah	07:20
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Mace_N8x0	heh	07:24
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genewitch	drat, i already had the modified initfs flashed. i just wasted 10 minutes of my life ;-)	07:49
genewitch	although i did learn that this can boot off a USB HD?	07:49
genewitch	kinda awesome.	07:49
Mace_N8x0	usb hd?	07:49
genewitch	yeah	07:49
Mace_N8x0	the n810?	07:50
genewitch	n800	07:50
genewitch	dunno about n810, i don't have one	07:50
Mace_N8x0	doesnt the n810 use a proprietary cable?	07:50
Mace_N8x0	heh	07:50
genewitch	i'm currently installing the OS onto my SD card	07:50
genewitch	so i have more space for programs	07:50
Mace_N8x0	it looks like it is but so does a g1 usb port	07:50
Mace_N8x0	oh	07:51
Mace_N8x0	yah. good idea	07:51
Mace_N8x0	sure wish they kept the internal sd with the n810	07:51
Mace_N8x0	bastards	07:51
Mace_N8x0	heh	07:51
RST38h	moo all	07:53
Mace_N8x0	hey	07:54
pupnik_	RST38h:	07:54
pupnik_	http://pupnik.de/brainmlt.jpg Beer = Brain Melt	07:54
pupnik_	it's the 90s photoshop lens flare!	07:54
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genewitch	indeed it is	07:55
genewitch	Mace_N8x0: isn't there a bunch of extra nifty stuff that is installed on that soldered internal card though?	07:56
genewitch	like the mapping software, et al	07:56
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Mace_N8x0	dunno	07:57
Mace_N8x0	wiped it before noticing	07:57
Mace_N8x0	heh	07:57
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Mace_N8x0	can i unsolder it and put a normal sd?	07:57
genewitch	i was wondering	07:58
genewitch	that.	07:58
genewitch	then again, sdhc cards are cheap so popping a different card in whenever isn't that big of a deal	07:58
genewitch	i don't use my internal card for much, really	07:58
genewitch	i think it has every gameboy game on it and a couple of books and a video, and that's it	07:59
genewitch	at least they went with SD and not memory stick	07:59
genewitch	Those fellas cost a ton comparatively.	08:00
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pupnik_	genewitch: that image taught me how to do rendering and postprocessing	08:05
pupnik_	back when it was newish	08:06
genewitch	heh	08:06
genewitch	Success! my nokia "device memory" now says 409 MB free!	08:07
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Mace_N8x0	er	08:15
Mace_N8x0	409?	08:15
genewitch	yup	08:16
Mace_N8x0	heh	08:16
genewitch	i was getting sick of having to uninstall some software to install new software	08:16
Mace_N8x0	what is the easiest way to log the output of initfs flasher?	08:17
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Mace_N8x0	init_flasher > foo.log?	08:17
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RST38h	pupnik: Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly?	08:21
Stskeeps	&> ?	08:21
pupnik_	RST38h: the cheap beer in minnesota was called "Grain Belt" - "Brain Melt" was just... my little idea	08:22
pupnik_	anyway alcohol is a sledgehammer drug. perverse that it is the heaviest legal one.	08:23
RST38h	Heh	08:23
Mace_N8x0	&> allows input?	08:24
RST38h	Internet not included, I am sure?	08:24
pupnik_	i also just had a chance to test thinkpad resilience to a freaking beer poured all over it	08:24
pupnik_	t42p - now sticky as a snail and the screen looks "interesting" - but it still works, due to the drainage slot in the keyboard	08:25
RST38h	Yes, thinkpads are full of drainage slots	08:25
pupnik_	you shoud;ld see the screen though... crazy improvement in contrast where the beer crept under the rim	08:25
RST38h	heh	08:26
pupnik_	i am guessing there might be a space between backlight and lcd element that go tfilled - but the strange strange thing is that the borders are 1:1 diagonal in most of it	08:26
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pupnik_	on the one hand, i ruined my thinkpad, on the other hand, it is not unsteal/unsellable	08:27
pupnik_	now	08:27
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divide_by_zero	woohoo, my script to fix the ogg fiels at the media library worked!!	08:40
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kulve	divide_by_zero: I have a small control panel applet that removes the navigator oggs from the playlist. Should we add there a button for your script? :)	08:42
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divide_by_zero	might be good! :]	08:46
divide_by_zero	here it is, version 0.1 gopher://sdf.lonestar.org/0/users/nwerneck/ogg-hat-hacker.py	08:47
divide_by_zero	going to sleep, see you all	08:47
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Mace_N8x0	hm	08:55
Mace_N8x0	joining more than one irc server seems a little screwed up in rtcom	08:56
Mace_N8x0	telepathy?	08:56
Mace_N8x0	heh	08:56
Mace_N8x0	ah well	08:56
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RST38h	Hmmm...AppManager will no longer support installing from files	10:23
qwerty12_N810	Yep...	10:24
Mek	not even in red pill mode?	10:24
RST38h	Apparently	10:24
RST38h	Next step: removing apt-get!	10:24
qwerty12_N810	Not saying it was the right thing to do, at all, but it didn't work great	10:24
RST38h	Worked fine for me	10:25
RST38h	Yes, you could screw things up by installing a wrong package, but that was up to you	10:26
qwerty12_N810	I usually resorted to dpkg because Application Manager wouldn't install dependencies. From a X terminal, I could just apt-get -f install afterwards	10:26
qwerty12_N810	apt-get won't be removed though: Quim said about people knowing how to install packages are free to use the command line (incidentially, one of the things I do love about Maemo)	10:28
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:28
qwerty12_N810	Morning Jaffa	10:28
Jaffa	qwerty12_N810: Indeed, which is why RST38h saying "removing apt-get" is effectively a troll ;-)	10:28
Jaffa	s/a troll/trolling/	10:28
infobot	Jaffa meant: qwerty12_N810: Indeed, which is why RST38h saying "removing apt-get" is effectively trolling ;-)	10:28
Jaffa	Simplifying the UI whilst keeping the power under the hood is fine by me.	10:29
RST38h	Jaffa: You are reminding me to post this suggestion to talk =)	10:30
Jaffa	Oh noes!	10:31
RST38h	hehe	10:31
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RST38h	Jaffa: BTW, should I file separate trackers for every requested XTerm improvement?	10:32
timeless_mbp	fwiw, my harmattan manager is just as annoyed as externals about not being able to install from .deb's using ham :)	10:35
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Tomaterr	hi	10:37
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Jaffa	RST38h: Yes, I think so.	10:38
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RST38h	Ok, adding	10:41
RST38h	qwerty: Do you know the source of that patch that added vertical button placement for xterm?	10:42
qwerty12_N810	It wasn't a patch, it was like that by default in one of the osso-xterm versions (0.12-<something>) IIRC	10:43
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RST38h	Ok, referred tracker to OS2007 version at maemo hackers	10:44
RST38h	The maintainer will probably use this as an excuse to no work on this bug, but it is better than nothing	10:44
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Andy80	hi	10:49
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RST38h	qwerty: here?	10:59
qwerty12_N810	yessir	10:59
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RST38h	qwerty: I created trakcers for all the XTerm improvements	11:01
RST38h	qwerty: So if you still haven't abandoned hope of seeing them integrated, go vote/comment and bring the other folks =)	11:02
qwerty12_N810	Hehe, thanks :)	11:02
Macer	hi	11:03
Macer	hm. n810 died	11:03
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RST38h	Macer: That is because you cheated on it with Touchbook\	11:05
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qwerty12_N810	"Coreutils: serious business."	11:07
Stskeeps	Macer: killed your device you say? :P	11:10
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qwerty12_N810	Stskeeps: re x86 Mer: please add an option to the first-boot-wizard to blacklist pcspkr	11:10
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N810: oh, hell yes :P	11:10
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Stskeeps	qwerty12_N810: i hate pcspkr module	11:12
qwerty12_N810	Same here :)	11:12
Stskeeps	tell me what to add to the x86 image for it to blacklist it and i'll gladly add it to imager :P	11:13
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qwerty12_N810	Stskeeps: A "/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-pcspkr.conf" containing "blacklist pcspkr" should be enough	11:14
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Stskeeps	qwerty12_N810: consider it done	11:15
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qwerty12_N810	Thanks	11:15
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RST38h	Jaffa: Same, if you want this stuff integrated into XTerm, vote/comment	11:18
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Macer	hm	11:19
Macer	wtf	11:19
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Jaffa	RST38h: Will do.	11:21
Macer	RST38h: only for Mer?	11:21
Macer	hehe	11:21
Macer	i want composited windows	11:21
Macer	!	11:21
slonopotamus	weird. my tablet started rebooting sometimes when on charger.	11:21
Macer	installed coreutils?	11:22
Macer	;)	11:22
qwerty12_N810	Macer: xcompmgr and transset-df is in -devel. Beware of the speed, however...	11:22
Macer	qwerty12_N810: wow.. i was joking haha	11:22
Macer	no powervr support im guessing?	11:22
slonopotamus	and bme says 'ignoring PONG from processwd' several times after reboot	11:22
RST38h	Macer: No, I have filed for 5.0beta2 and any later version	11:22
RST38h	Macer: Only because filing for Diablo does not bring any response nowadays	11:23
Macer	lol	11:23
qwerty12_N810	RST38h: is this on bugs.maemo.org? I can only see reports from 07 on maemo-hackers.org	11:23
RST38h	qwerty: Yes, it is on bugs.maemo.org, I will give tracker numbers in a moment	11:23
Macer	maybe they will release fremantle for n810s	11:23
Macer	;)	11:23
qwerty12_N810	RST38h: Ah, OK, would explain a lot...	11:23
Macer	like an actual nokia build	11:23
RST38h	qwerty: 4912,4913,4914,4915,4916	11:24
RST38h	qwerty: I think I have covered 'em all, but not sure	11:25
qwerty12_N810	Macer: There'd be no point in that considering that people are told that said problem in bug report is fixed in Mer	11:25
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qwerty12_N810	RST38h: thanks	11:25
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Stskeeps	RST38h: don't you have commit access to push those modifications? :)	11:26
Stskeeps	Marat Fayzullin is't it?	11:27
Stskeeps	you're listed as a project admin on osso-xterm so there's really no excuse not to patch :P	11:27
qwerty12_N810	RST38h: will vote & comment	11:27
Macer	can you run hildon in mer?	11:27
Macer	:)	11:27
Stskeeps	mer is primarily hildon..	11:27
Stskeeps	:P	11:27
Macer	but i mean the maemo hildon	11:27
Stskeeps	we did in the past	11:28
Stskeeps	hang on	11:28
Macer	that would be kind of cool	11:28
Macer	bbl. have to do something	11:28
Stskeeps	you're waiting one minute	11:29
Stskeeps	:P	11:29
Stskeeps	http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-homediskfree.png	11:30
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RST38h	Sts: Actually, I do	11:34
RST38h	Sts: But 1) no time and 2) if I do try pushing them, there may be backlash from the maintainers	11:34
Stskeeps	RST38h: i think they'd be happy, tbh	11:35
timeless_mbp	andre__: ping	11:35
RST38h	Sts: Need at least a week of joblesness :)	11:35
Stskeeps	but anyway, you can use 15 minutes to checkout the svn, patch, compile, test, instead of complaining 30 minutes on a bug :)	11:36
timeless_mbp	andre__: please import the latest bug such that the body of comment 1 is before comment 0	11:36
RST38h	Sts: That is, no full time work, no contract work, family sent away, telephones cut	11:36
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t_s_o	seems there will be a whole lot of people running app manager in permanent red pill mode in fremantle...	11:36
RST38h	Sts: No, it isn't this easy. The current XTerm patches apply to OS2007 and OS2008	11:36
timeless_mbp	t_s_o: well	11:36
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timeless_mbp	most likely a lot of people will install a replacement ham	11:37
RST38h	Sts: So, integrating them into OS2009 codebase is gonna take more than 15 minutes, ESPECIALLY if doing it well	11:37
timeless_mbp	which doesn't require permanent red pill mode	11:37
qwerty12_N810	t_s_o: why? it's not gonna bring back the "install from local .deb" feature ;)	11:37
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t_s_o	:P	11:37
RST38h	Sts: Besides, will have to ask wazd for a better keyboard overlay, the current one is garish	11:37
Stskeeps	RST38h: there's literally not much change between os2009 osso-xterm and os2008 one :P	11:37
Stskeeps	still, it shows that it just takes one person to ask for commit access to get the stuff done	11:39
Stskeeps	you got added without much protest	11:39
RST38h	Sts: I was asked if I want this job	11:39
RST38h	Sts: And agreed. Haven't done shit though.	11:39
t_s_o	qwerty12_N810: maybe i should put it like this then, right now there seems to be a very short distance between "sheep" and "wizard" in the package management department...	11:40
Andy80	t_s_o, what you mean?	11:42
Stskeeps	t_s_o: they didn't say no .install files	11:42
t_s_o	so we are back at third party repos?	11:42
Stskeeps	i do understand why they want to do it like that though	11:43
Mek	btw, last I checked app manager in fremantle still had install from file in red pill mode...	11:43
t_s_o	Mek: red pill opens a whole different can of worms...	11:43
Stskeeps	t_s_o: or local repos for that sake	11:43
t_s_o	heh, now i am tempted to see if i can run a repo of a SD card ;)	11:44
Stskeeps	sure you can	11:44
Mek	that works just fine	11:44
Stskeeps	apt-ftparchive is your friend	11:44
* qwerty12_N810 installed the early diablo betas like that...		11:44
Mek	I've installed lots of stuff whith no wifi around that way...	11:44
t_s_o	figures	11:44
timeless_mbp	t_s_o: you can run a repo off anything	11:45
timeless_mbp	i have a test package which install a repo into /root	11:45
t_s_o	meh, damned if you do, damned if you dont...	11:45
timeless_mbp	it's referenced from a Fremantle bug report	11:45
timeless_mbp	(a bug they fixed i might add)	11:46
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linuxeventually	Hello all	11:50
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andre__	timeless_mbp, that's not a blocker, but okay	12:04
timeless_mbp	andre__: such bugs need to be fixed early	12:04
timeless_mbp	i should have spotted it months ago when i was working on the Mer strings	12:04
timeless_mbp	andre__: from an l10n perspective, it blocks the ability to have decent strings	12:05
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timeless_mbp	it's more important than a bug where a string is misspelled	12:05
andre__	then every l10n bug would be a blocker	12:05
timeless_mbp	no	12:05
timeless_mbp	only bugs where the underlying code is inflexible	12:05
timeless_mbp	which in fact is about 50% of bugs but should be <2%	12:06
andre__	right, misspelled strings are l10n bugs. this issue is an i18n bug	12:06
timeless_mbp	right	12:06
timeless_mbp	i18n bugs essentially are blockers by default, yes	12:06
timeless_mbp	put another way	12:06
timeless_mbp	if an i18n bug isn't fixed, a given language shouldn't ship	12:06
timeless_mbp	because it can't do its job	12:07
timeless_mbp	it literally blocks the entire deliverable	12:07
Stskeeps	what's the difference between l10n and i18n? :P	12:08
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pupnik_	are there any particular things to avoid when persuading an old woman to go down on you?	12:08
timeless_mbp	internationalization is the ability to make something available	12:08
ShadowJK	pupnik_, dentures	12:09
timeless_mbp	localization is the act of actually translating	12:09
timeless_mbp	there's also l12y	12:09
timeless_mbp	localizability	12:09
timeless_mbp	which is really what we're talking about more than l18n	12:09
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timeless_mbp	l18n is more of a superset	12:09
timeless_mbp	and l12y/l10n are mostly complements	12:09
timeless_mbp	that's a really rough explanation	12:10
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timeless_mbp	https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describekeywords.cgi#l12y	12:10
timeless_mbp	https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describekeywords.cgi#intl	12:10
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timeless_mbp	that's about the best i can offer	12:11
timeless_mbp	actually replace my original definition of internationalization with a more process oriented definition covering l12y+l10n :)	12:11
linuxeventually	@Pupnik, I realize this off-topic, but I was wondering if the driver qwerty12 compiled for r8187 (realtek rtl8187) works with the latest Diablo kernel?	12:12
timeless_mbp	in general, nokia doesn't get l12y right ever	12:12
timeless_mbp	not for gender (see references from yesterday)	12:12
timeless_mbp	and not for regional stuff (see bug)	12:12
timeless_mbp	i can't wait for all the fun plural bugs	12:12
RST38h	f10n	12:13
timeless_mbp	and note that even for simple plurals nokia doesn't get them right	12:13
RST38h	As in "stick to pidgin English to avoid f10n"	12:13
pupnik_	11:12 -!- pupnik_ was kicked from #politics by RAS\| [I would ask you to leave, but why, when I can force you?]	12:14
timeless_mbp	heh	12:14
pupnik_	yaay my ban for the day	12:15
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pupnik_	just gotta be creative	12:15
timeless_mbp	good to get that out of the way early :)	12:15
RST38h	pupnik: So, what was it?	12:15
pupnik_	the comment that got me banned? my silly sex question	12:15
RST38h	Ah	12:16
linuxeventually	Ah	12:16
pupnik_	<chirp>	12:17
pupnik_	when you're on a roll you just gotta soar	12:17
RST38h	pupnik: Next time ask for a slightly used stuffed owl, in a good condition	12:17
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RST38h	That USUALLY makes most people think	12:18
qwerty12_N810	Stskeeps: another Mer gotcha: WebKit, itself, is hardcoded to use /home/user for its cookie storage	12:18
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N810: probably another g_free issue..	12:18
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Stskeeps	qwerty12_N810: got a file i can look at?	12:18
qwerty12_N810	I just searched in his diff after noticing that /home/user was created after running Tear	12:19
linuxeventually	I would like to add to the topic brought forth by timeless_mbp the suggestion that the universal symbol for currency ¤ be used in the future as the label on the hardware key that then redirects to the appropriate $, ¥, €, £ etc based on user localization so as to not waste function keys and be more globally accepting	12:19
Stskeeps	i'm really wondering if it's good or bad that we have $USER != user	12:19
timeless_mbp	linuxeventually: so	12:20
timeless_mbp	that's problematic	12:20
qwerty12_N810	Stskeeps: I can give him a patch that'll use g_get_home_dir() - it'll work for Maemo too..	12:20
RST38h	linueventually: Finally, all the keyboards will be marked like we had them back in .SU	12:20
timeless_mbp	because i use $ to mean "go to end of line" in vi	12:20
timeless_mbp	and i use $ to mean "this is a shell variable" in my shell	12:20
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RST38h	Please, also adopt the IBM backspace symbol (arrow with a cross)	12:20
timeless_mbp	or $ to mean "this is a scalar variable" in perl	12:20
timeless_mbp	RST38h: EWAYTOORATIONAL	12:20
timeless_mbp	and IBM owns RATIONAL :)	12:20
timeless_mbp	RST38h: do you mean the icon used here: http://www.nokiaphoneblog.com/images/e61i.jpg	12:21
linuxeventually	That's true, but are the yen or euro characters used as variables/shortcuts in any programs or programming languages? I'm just curious.	12:22
Stskeeps	i vote for one world currency	12:22
Stskeeps	:P	12:22
timeless_mbp	USD :)	12:23
qwerty12_N810	GBP	12:23
timeless_mbp	linuxeventually: to my knowledge none are	12:23
RST38h	Golden sovereigns	12:23
linuxeventually	It was just something I was thinking about the other day, so as to free more space for other characters	12:23
suihkulokki	bottlecaps	12:23
RST38h	qwerty: Can you still make your own sovereigns in the UK?	12:24
timeless_mbp	linuxeventually: i'm not saying there isn't something to be said for the approach	12:24
qwerty12_N810	RST38h: no idea	12:24
timeless_mbp	i certainly don't approve of the 5 character rotate left in the n810	12:24
timeless_mbp	that was insane	12:24
Stskeeps	sheep as world currency	12:24
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linuxeventually	Okay I guess no one wants to abandon their own currency, so I suppose I'm going to put name in for more keys in the future then (;	12:26
linuxeventually	*My name	12:26
RST38h	just remove all markings off the keys	12:27
linuxeventually	So no one wants to talk about the alfa usb driver I mentioned earlier?	12:27
linuxeventually	Lol	12:27
RST38h	People who need to use them will know	12:27
RST38h	The rest can have one-buttoned mouse	12:27
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linuxeventually	No thanks one-button mouse	12:28
Stskeeps	just put tiny lcd displays in the keys..	12:28
Stskeeps	:P	12:28
qwerty12_N810	With keys that size? :P	12:29
* ShadowJK saw keys with oled 64x64 pixel displays sold on a chinese website		12:29
linuxeventually	I'd like to see a faux middle click in addition to our faux right-click (i of course refer to the menu key) rather than relying soley on a single input	12:29
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linuxeventually	The optimus keyboard?	12:30
ShadowJK	no	12:30
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timeless_mbp	yeah, lcd keyboards are definitely available	12:32
timeless_mbp	or you know... someone could invest enough time and money to make a working touch screen based keyboard	12:32
timeless_mbp	oh,... apple already did that	12:32
timeless_mbp	i guess no one else should then	12:33
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ShadowJK	whoever designed E75 keyboard never tried entering ip:port addresses with it :/	12:33
timeless_mbp	heh	12:33
timeless_mbp	my e61i has shift+. = :	12:33
timeless_mbp	and they're stacked vertically	12:33
timeless_mbp	?	12:34
ShadowJK	e75 has FN+. = :	12:34
timeless_mbp	http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2009/2/nokia-e75.jpg ?	12:34
ShadowJK	I guess the layout for specials is different between languages again..	12:35
timeless_mbp	nokia is great at tha	12:35
timeless_mbp	may i ask why you bought the e75?	12:35
timeless_mbp	nokia thinks that it adds value to have incompatible variants	12:35
linuxeventually	I think my biggest personal annoyance of the n810 hardware keys is that the numerical keys are part of the homerow.	12:36
ShadowJK	Because my E70 died and nokia has no replacement yet.. I would've bought E71, but it's stuck on the older OS, so I got E75 instead	12:36
linuxeventually	I can only assume they have a fragmented keyboard design team	12:37
timeless_mbp	they don't	12:37
linuxeventually	Really?	12:37
timeless_mbp	they have a fragmented requirements team	12:37
timeless_mbp	and insist on catering to each group	12:37
linuxeventually	Ah	12:37
timeless_mbp	at least, that's what we have	12:37
timeless_mbp	i have to assume the same applies for Symbian divisions	12:37
timeless_mbp	nokia is really proud of its variants system	12:38
timeless_mbp	it really does think a lot of value is had from it	12:38
ShadowJK	Nokia has too many variants of everything, when nokia itself even fails to make apps portable across variants	12:39
* timeless_mbp would be happy if nokia managed to make one app that worked properly for one variant		12:40
timeless_mbp	overjoyed even	12:40
linuxeventually	Yes I thought Ovi was their way of doing that	12:41
linuxeventually	But then	12:41
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linuxeventually	Not so much	12:41
ShadowJK	Some of them do work if you limit yourself to a featureset smaller than what the program appears or claims to support ;-)	12:41
ShadowJK	The S60 Browser works for downloading files, as long as you split them up to 350 meg or so	12:42
linuxeventually	I find it humourous that symbian application designed for the N95 are not functional on the N97 due the lack of softkeys	12:42
timeless_mbp	you've managed to download a 350mb file?	12:42
ShadowJK	yes	12:42
timeless_mbp	wow	12:42
timeless_mbp	my phone would probably just reboot :)	12:42
timeless_mbp	(n81 8gb)	12:42
ShadowJK	Just started it in the morning, left phone on charger, and the next day in the evening it beeped and said file saved to E:\Downloads	12:43
timeless_mbp	it likes to reboot if i try to connect to freenode	12:43
linuxeventually	I think that's to remind people using US telecos that they have a 5gb limit (;	12:43
timeless_mbp	heh	12:43
ShadowJK	I don't know exactly where the limit is, but when there was 1.8 gig free on the memory card it failed to download a 1 gig file with "insufficient space" or something similar..	12:44
slonopotamus	lardman\|afk, ping	12:44
linuxeventually	Hmm	12:44
linuxeventually	I wonder	12:44
linuxeventually	If it's something similar	12:44
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ShadowJK	It probably downloads to a temp folder and then copies? :-)	12:44
linuxeventually	To the practice of reserving 5% of a partition for root	12:45
linuxeventually	Or that	12:45
ShadowJK	Out of the box, the Camera app crashed on everything except taking a picture. If you tired change settings -> crash, if you tried switch flash on/off -> crash	12:46
ShadowJK	one day phone asked approval for updating firmware and I said yes, camera started working after that :-)	12:46
RST38h	Shadow: N97?	12:49
ShadowJK	E75	12:49
RST38h	Ah	12:50
slonopotamus	lardman\|afk, gcc supports c54x and c4x targets. now i wonder if c54x binaries will work on c55x	12:50
RST38h	The insuffficient state thing is a known problem	12:50
RST38h	Shadow: it copies crap to a temp directory on C:	12:50
ShadowJK	that can't be, C: isn't even big enough for a 350 meg download	12:52
RST38h	Well, it applies to .sis files	12:53
RST38h	Not sure about firmware updates	12:53
ShadowJK	Oh I was downloading random shit	12:53
RST38h	Poor old E70 can only be flashed wholesale, not that there is any reason to do that for the last few years	12:53
ShadowJK	actually an mp3 XORd so that the damn browser wouldn't try to invoke the media player	12:54
ShadowJK	I think it can be flashed with data cable and PC Suite?	12:54
RST38h	Ehehe, this is fixable I think :)	12:54
RST38h	Yes, it can be	12:54
RST38h	If you are bold enough to install PC Suite	12:54
* ShadowJK isn't		12:54
ShadowJK	I've stumbled across various siemens, nokia, ericsson software on people's computers	12:55
RST38h	Well, you will jsut have to manually clean registry afterwards	12:55
ShadowJK	and it scares me	12:55
RST38h	Actually, hijackThis does good job at eliminating PC Suite	12:55
linuxeventually	Perhaps it would work in a virtual machine that could just be junked later?	12:58
RST38h	too complicated	12:58
RST38h	thenyou would have to clean up after vmware instead	12:58
_berto_	i tried pc suite in qemu	12:59
glass	e70 can be home-flashed with pcsuite..	12:59
glass	pcsuite makes it more useful anyways	12:59
_berto_	but it didn't work	12:59
RST38h	glass: Not for me	12:59
RST38h	glass: Ironically, what made e70 more useful for me was Personal Web Server	13:00
RST38h	glass: If I were Nokia, I would ditch PC Suite and replace it with PWS on the phone	13:00
glass	RST38h: yes, but arranging files, getting images automatically out, managing stuff	13:00
glass	RST38h: would pws make dialing up to internet a one click thing?	13:01
RST38h	glass: BT/USB mass storage does this very well	13:01
RST38h	glass: No, but you do not need PC Suite for that either	13:01
RST38h	glass: For managing files, standard USB mass storage + FAR Manager serve all my needs	13:01
lcuk2	does the tablet connect wiht pcsuite stuff? the only desktop software ive tried is the windows flasher	13:01
lcuk2	and i rated that 5stars lol	13:01
RST38h	lcuk: Actually, it does	13:02
RST38h	lcuk: In a limited way	13:02
glass	RST38h: standard usb mass storage gets you mmc only, no?	13:02
lcuk2	interesting, so its recognised then?	13:02
RST38h	glass: Yes, but so what?	13:02
glass	RST38h: a lot so what	13:02
RST38h	glass: I have got 1GB MMC there and a really tiny 64MB C:	13:02
qwerty12_N810	Stskeeps: did I fuck something up here: http://slexy.org/view/s21cm9qprc	13:03
RST38h	glass: Why would I care?	13:03
glass	RST38h: i guess you don't want to look at logs from c	13:03
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RST38h	glass: Not often, but when I do, there is BT	13:03
RST38h	glass: And I can look at them locally using XFiles	13:03
glass	RST38h: pcsuite allows faster installing of sis files too	13:04
glass	RST38h: all and all, using either that, or remotes60 or such, comes pretty useful when developing	13:04
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N810: looks correct to me	13:04
RST38h	glass: The only problem is, not all sis files installed by pcsuite work afterwards :)	13:04
qwerty12_N810	Stskeeps: Good, it shouldn't mess up usage under Maemo	13:04
glass	RST38h: .. such as?	13:05
glass	RST38h: the installer is ran on the phone anyways	13:05
RST38h	glass: google :)	13:05
lcuk2	qwerty12_N810, webkit uses curl?	13:05
RST38h	glass: I know, but there appear to be some discrepancies	13:05
glass	RST38h: such sis files would be called 'broken'	13:05
RST38h	glass: Never took time to figure which ones	13:05
RST38h	glass: Dunno, it installs everytihing just fine locally	13:05
qwerty12_N810	lcuk2: no, libsoup but Bundyo has to use the CURL backend so that it compiles for Diablo (diablo has too old libsoup)	13:06
glass	RST38h: pre 2nd edition, the installer ran completely on the pcsuite. was very useful	13:06
RST38h	glass: I never found this thing useful, really	13:06
glass	RST38h: if one put the exe to run after install, then testing on phone was supereasy	13:06
lcuk2	qwerty12_N810, understood	13:06
glass	RST38h: but a lot of things got broken in the installer in 3rd edition	13:06
RST38h	glass: It is awful :( Slow, crashy, leaves crap all over the registry	13:06
glass	RST38h: a _lot_	13:06
RST38h	glass: not only in the installer...	13:07
timeless_mbp	RST38h: i'm quite happy with virtualbox	13:07
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* ShadowJK has a little arm box under his desk with bluetooth dongle attached, automatically connects through phone to intarwebs whenever phone is in range		13:09
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genewitch	can i develop software for the nokia n800 on an old sparc workstation?	13:16
qwerty12_N810	Stskeeps: I've also given Bundyo a patch that checks to see if /media/mmc1/ exists before making databaseDirectory "/media/mmc1" so that should hopefully be resolved too if Bundyo includes it...	13:16
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N810: alright, - sounds good	13:16
lcuk2	genewitch, you can sit on whatever is comfortable	13:16
Stskeeps	we'll probably adopt /media/mmc* eventually when we have the event daemon :P	13:16
lcuk2	but im not sure if the sdk will work	13:16
genewitch	i'm thinking of making a LAMP server out of the sparc workstation, or SAMP if i can't find a useful linux to run on it	13:17
lcuk2	you could try using the vmware image or something	13:17
genewitch	i really only write console stuff	13:17
Stskeeps	genewitch: sparc and scratchbox would probably be fun.. in scratchbox2 it's more likely	13:17
genewitch	i have no desire to learn qt4 or whatever API for maemo; the GUI space in my brain is reserved for windows :-(	13:18
genewitch	no out loud pun intended.	13:19
ShadowJK	small console stuff can probably be compiled on the tablet fine	13:20
genewitch	how? mer?	13:20
ShadowJK	If you're careful, you can add the SDK repo and install gcc and libc6-dev	13:21
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genewitch	you have a link?	13:25
genewitch	i'd love that	13:25
genewitch	i tried to get it on there a while back but to no avail	13:25
Stskeeps	ShadowJK: are you trying to drive people to mass psychosis? :P	13:28
linuxeventually	I'd be interested as well. However I would think it would "brick"/unusable the particular install. Also it takes a couple gigs, right?	13:28
lcuk2	deb http://repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk free non-free	13:28
lcuk2	deb http://repository.maemo.org diablo/tools free non-free	13:28
ShadowJK	Stskeeps, luck isn't psychotic	13:29
lcuk2	then you can apt-get sdk stuff available directly on tablet. you cannot run things like ./configure, nor can you build packages with dpkg	13:29
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genewitch	why would having a compiler and a library brick an install? you can usually tell it to install into it's own folder, however much hell that would play on gmake	13:29
lcuk2	but you can use gcc and make happily	13:29
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pupnik_	i am a libertarian	13:29
pupnik_	a person of clear mind, generous heart, and joyous spirit	13:30
ShadowJK	That's what I said "carefully", the SDK repo isn't entirely compatible, and sometimes it will ask you to remove a dozen packages in order to install something. Say no.	13:30
lcuk2	ShadowJK, heh i think its coreutils that does that	13:30
lcuk2	it removes busybox and tries to put the other stuff on, and you get almost 2 pages of removals	13:31
lcuk2	and you have to type "stskeeps told me to do it"	13:31
lcuk2	before it will actually do it	13:31
lcuk2	genewitch, ^^^ thats why it can brick an install	13:32
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linuxeventually	"stskeeps made me do it" LOL	13:32
slonopotamus	scary	13:33
* slonopotamus build crosstoolchain for dsp		13:33
pupnik_	where is somumaha	13:34
pupnik_	damn finns	13:34
qwerty12_N810	ukki? he's in #knots	13:34
linuxeventually	Yeah installing core packages from a different repo tends to do that to linux installs, heh. i probably have a record for most bricked installs. "What do you mean libc cannot be installed" etc	13:34
pupnik_	ty!	13:34
pupnik_	qwerty12_N810: if you're ever like dying or something.... drop me a privmsg and i'll help	13:34
qwerty12_N810	Hehe, thanks :D	13:35
Stskeeps	ShadowJK: you obviously haven't met him ;p	13:35
lcuk2	linuxeventually, libc6 to be installed is v3, but you currently have v4. do you want to downgrade?	13:35
lcuk2	yeah	13:35
pupnik_	the offer includes helicopters and armed people	13:35
lcuk2	KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!	13:35
lcuk2	:O oi!	13:35
linuxeventually	More of a apt-get upgrade on a knoppix hd install that was 2 years old, hah	13:36
pupnik_	so my vmps electrostatics seem farked. so i'm cranking just the carbn woofer bass drivers with 2.5kg magnets	13:36
pupnik_	it's not club-level-loud but et get's the bowels moving	13:36
genewitch	ouch	13:36
pupnik_	if anybody likes hi-fi, and comes through frankfurt, contact me	13:37
genewitch	i sound like such a cad	13:37
genewitch	is there a java VM or whatever for maemo?	13:37
pupnik_	sort of	13:37
genewitch	ie java javaprog.java	13:37
slonopotamus	genewitch, jalimo	13:38
Jaffa	genewitch: Yes. See Jalimo.	13:38
* Jaffa has run Eclipse's OSGi-container (Equinox) using it		13:38
genewitch	OSGi	13:38
genewitch	i can write java in notepad++	13:38
Jaffa	OSGi is nothing to do with Eclipse's IDE	13:39
genewitch	now i can 1-up my iPhone wearing friends. "we both have java, but i still have flash and you don't"	13:39
Jaffa	genewitch: The iPhone has Java?	13:39
Jaffa	I didn't think it did.	13:39
genewitch	i could be wrong	13:40
genewitch	erg	13:40
genewitch	~jalimo	13:40
linuxeventually	I thought most phones had java mobile (or whatever it is called)? But no idea about apple products	13:41
Jaffa	linuxeventually: Many/most phones to have a Java ME implementation. The iPhone is not one of them. Android doesn't either (IIRC), but its apps are written in the Java language and run on a Java-like platform.	13:41
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linuxeventually	Yeah java-like.	13:42
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Jaffa	For most developers, the slightly different class library and the Dalvik VM aren't relevant and it's as close to Java to make the difference somewhat immaterial	13:43
genewitch	microsoft virtual machine definition of "java-like"?	13:43
lcuk2	"java-like" as in pepsi is "coke-like"	13:43
linuxeventually	I know "turbo easyDEB" has some version of java installed, probably not sun java, I haven't looked into it	13:43
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genewitch	Applications / There is no result matching the search criteria. Please try again.	13:44
genewitch	for jalimo	13:44
Jaffa	genewitch: No. It's a version of the class library with some additions (and some removals) and a non-Java-bytecode VM	13:45
Jaffa	https://wiki.evolvis.org/jalimo/index.php/Main_Page	13:45
linuxeventually	(That debian lxde env. contains openjdk, eww)	13:48
lcuk2	xnt keeps mucking about with a java framework i think	13:48
Stskeeps	hmm, qole's birthday today	13:51
genewitch	happy birthday qole	13:51
genewitch	brb	13:51
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RST38h	Hahaha, QuickOffice guys suddenly felt the ground being removed form udner their feet	13:59
Stskeeps	wtf is the deal with #4915 and worksforme->reopened->fixed? :P	14:00
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javispedro	oh, my garage application was rejected	14:04
javispedro	who is the garage admin?	14:04
Jaffa	javispedro: For?	14:04
Stskeeps	snes9x license? ;)	14:05
qwerty12_N810	Having Maemo in the name? :P	14:05
javispedro	"I didn't specify a license", though I remember choosing "Other/propietary" and I'm sure I filled the license textfield.	14:05
Jaffa	Stskeeps: My diablo X Term (without patches) allows me to change the font	14:05
X-Fade	javispedro: There is an unspoken rule not to allow hosting closed source apps on garage, I thnk.	14:06
suihkulokki	RST38h: one still needs to wonder if m$ will manage to make a useful office port - they have a habit of making half-assed ports to their competitors platforms	14:06
javispedro	It's not closed source, but uses a rather uncommon BSD-like with advertising license and no-commercial.	14:07
suihkulokki	even office for windoes ce is quite sucky too..	14:07
linuxeventually1	Well I guess you can just host elsewhere until it is cleared up. And yes it is a license formality. If it had a binary blob we wouldn't have support =@	14:08
RST38h	suihkulokki: One does not need to wonder, MS will not.	14:08
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X-Fade	javispedro: I'll check who denied it and what was the reasoning behind it.	14:09
RST38h	suihkulokki: For reference, you only need to look at their IE port to Solaris	14:09
javispedro	X-Fade, thanks.	14:09
RST38h	suihkulokki: Or at Skype port to Symbian	14:09
RST38h	suihkulokki: (to view the problem from the other end)	14:09
javispedro	for the record, Wikipedia says the license is "Free software": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snes9x#Licenseç	14:10
javispedro	damn ç key near return.	14:10
lcuk2	X-Fade, what happened with canola then?	14:10
lcuk2	for the longest time wasnt that closed	14:10
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zerojayPC	yep	14:11
lcuk2	and didnt someone get round the problem of autobuilder and blobs	14:11
X-Fade	lcuk2: Probably got grandfathered in somewhere in 2006.	14:12
* lcuk2 nods		14:12
X-Fade	lcuk2: And why would you use the autobuilder for closed apps a all? There is direct upload for non-free?	14:12
lcuk2	you were a PFY yourself then lol	14:12
lcuk2	i dunno, but if theres a method to upload non-free doesnt that mean you allow closed source?	14:13
javispedro	or things the autobuilder doesn't like.	14:13
suihkulokki	RST38h: IE for UNIX was funny.. came with half of windows :)	14:13
lcuk2	or is it just garage hosted	14:13
Jaffa	lcuk2: Extras, auto-builder and garage have nothing to do with each other.	14:13
X-Fade	Jaffa: Well, that is not exactly true.	14:14
lcuk2	ok, each has its own little rules. cool ill stop digging	14:14
Jaffa	X-Fade: In terms of proejcts etc.	14:14
Jaffa	X-Fade: i.e. you don't need a garage project to upload to the auto-builder; you don't need to use the auto-builder to get into extras (for non-free)	14:15
X-Fade	Jaffa: But you need a garage account and both run on the same machine ;)	14:16
linuxeventually1	Speaking of that snes emulator, is it usable at this stage?	14:16
Jaffa	X-Fade: Yeah, yeah - I know ;-p	14:16
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javispedro	linuxeventually1, if you can live without saves :D	14:17
linuxeventually1	Excuse me the term is "playable"	14:17
linuxeventually1	Ah cool	14:17
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RST38h	suihkulokki: Right. Now imagine Office for Symbian coming to Symbian with half Windows =)	14:17
linuxeventually1	Haha	14:18
suihkulokki	I'd have nightmares of that mental image :)	14:18
javispedro	I just wanted a repo, so don't push very hard X-Fade (I mean I really could just use gitourius or ask dreamhost for yet another svn repo)	14:19
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X-Fade	javispedro: No problem, just want to know myself too.	14:20
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lcuk2	are binaries compiled in diablo sdk usable on fremantle?	14:38
thopiekar	hii	14:38
javispedro	lcuk2, this is always a matter of luck	14:38
javispedro	a bare C console application: for sure	14:39
lcuk2	but the cpuopcode and binary format itself is compatible	14:39
lcuk2	cool	14:39
javispedro	the opposite is not true though	14:39
javispedro	the fremantle toolchain uses arm7 opcodes by default	14:39
RST38h	qwerty: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4912	14:40
javispedro	going out a but	14:40
RST38h	qwerty: If you have got a moment, give 'em that code snippet	14:40
javispedro	* abit :P	14:40
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lcuk2	ahhh, so a diablo binary would run on fremantle, but wouldnt necessarily be optimally compiled	14:40
RST38h	'cause right now it is developing exaclty as I predicted	14:40
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Stskeeps	wb zerojay	14:41
zerojay	Thanks, whomever that was. ;)	14:42
qwerty12_N810	RST38h: you'll have to wait some hours (it's GTFO the computer time) and I can't remember the exact versions where the move was done. Apart from that: I'll be glad to comply	14:42
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RST38h	qwerty: My guess is that they will not WONTFIX the bug right away :)	14:45
RST38h	qwerty: I will look at it myself in the meantime, although as far as hacking xterm is concerned you will be a much more capable choice	14:46
qwerty12_N810	Not really... you actually know what you're doing :P	14:46
RST38h	Me? Know?	14:47
RST38h	qwerty: About that font config thing	14:47
RST38h	qwerty: Was that for the full font configuration or just a quick Tiny/Small/Normal/Big thing?	14:47
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qwerty12_N810	it'd be for a "Tiny/Small/Normal/Big thing", it added options to the menu to do what would be done with the zoom buttons	14:48
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RST38h	All right, I will make a correct to the tracker	14:48
qwerty12_N810	(as Benson said: it was useful when rotated (as going to the zoom buttons was a bit annoying if screen was rotated to the right) and I understand Fremantle will have rotation)	14:49
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Stskeeps	zerojay: mer guy who often shows up without a color :P	14:51
zerojay	Heh	14:51
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RST38h	qwerty: Not in the applications	14:54
RST38h	qwerty: If we are lucky, at least the GTK widgets will support rotation	14:54
qwerty12_N810	Ah, right	14:55
lcuk2	qwerty12_N810, jeremiah both of you need another big thank you, with the knowedge you two imparted, I have now constructed a standard packaging template for liq* applications and its now hopefully nice and simple to create packages for all the apps i want :)	14:57
lcuk2	(and keesj, but i havent heard him in chan recently :P0	14:58
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zerojay	It's not hard to see that having 1000 mp3s in the default media player library wasn't in Nokia's test plans.	15:06
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javispedro	zerojay, test plans for the fremantle media player? :(	15:07
zerojay	No, diablo.	15:08
zerojay	Better not be the case for fremantle.	15:08
javispedro	aww, yes.	15:08
zerojay	Especially with 32gb internal.	15:08
javispedro	hope this MetaTracker thing works OK.	15:09
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Mace_N8x0	good morning	15:09
javispedro	morning	15:09
lcuk2	\o hey macer	15:10
javispedro	ah, the h-a-m bug was fixed	15:10
Mace_N8x0	hey... going to work on this stuff some more heh	15:10
Mace_N8x0	have to make an 8G maemo partition tho	15:10
lcuk2	javispedro, which one	15:10
javispedro	the ban on "=" depends	15:11
Mace_N8x0	2G wasnt enough and i have been so damn busy	15:11
lcuk2	= is evil ho	15:11
Mace_N8x0	= ?	15:11
lcuk2	Mace_N8x0, it best have been, i did all my testing on stock internal	15:11
javispedro	works well for e.g. data packages containing strings in some binary format	15:11
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lcuk2	yeah but not so for libraries	15:12
Mace_N8x0	lcuk, i was trying to build qt on it	15:12
Mace_N8x0	it ran out haha	15:12
lcuk2	ahhh	15:12
lcuk2	i defer to stskeeps original observation - you mad fool :p	15:12
Mace_N8x0	and i have to learn how to make a repo	15:12
Mace_N8x0	lol	15:12
jeremiah	Mace_N8x0: Use reprepro	15:13
Mace_N8x0	if mer could do everything maemo could....	15:13
javispedro	Mace_N8x0, I used reprepro (in my first days before I learned maemo.org was trying to push everything to extras)	15:13
jeremiah	reprepro is the best tool for serious repos	15:13
Mace_N8x0	heh.. well, i want to keep it local	15:13
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jeremiah	debpool is going to be good too, eventually	15:13
Mace_N8x0	i will try them out soon	15:13
javispedro	i liked its "archiving old packages" ability	15:14
Mace_N8x0	have to be able to make pkgs on the tablet first	15:14
Mace_N8x0	build and make	15:14
Mace_N8x0	all from src :)	15:14
Mace_N8x0	bbl	15:14
jeremiah	dpkg-buildpackage is your friend	15:14
Mace_N8x0	jerimah, sure if it works on the tablet	15:15
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Mace_N8x0	i have to first make a working dev enviroment	15:15
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Macer	hm	15:32
Macer	does cfdisk have ncurses as a dep now?	15:32
qwerty12_N810	No, ncurses-base must still be installed manually	15:33
Macer	ok qwerty12_N810 .. thanks. just checking.. going to start teh partitioning section now	15:33
qwerty12_N810	my excuses for not updating: 1) I'm lazy and 2) it's in extras-devel. Anything goes...	15:33
X-Fade	qwerty12_N810: Anything goes? :)	15:34
Macer	hah	15:34
Macer	it's ok. it's just 1 extra step ;) a quick one too	15:34
qwerty12_N810	X-Fade: well, you know what I mean? :P	15:34
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qwerty12_N810	Obviously, I wouldn't expect to see something running rm -rf...	15:35
qwerty12_N810	/	15:35
Macer	qwerty12_N810: one will slip by... have to grab thsi n810 tha ti left like all the way across the house	15:35
Macer	damnit	15:35
* javispedro horrors at the idea that running that on his tablet will not only erase his tablet but also his nfs-enabled workstation		15:35
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Macer	javispedro: i almost did that once	15:39
Macer	:)	15:39
Macer	luckily i sneezed or something and had an epiphany	15:39
* qwerty12_N810 actually did that on his tablet. I have a bad habit of running "rm -rf *". When I ran it, I had no idea I was root and I was in /...		15:40
lcuk2	o_O yikes	15:41
* javispedro reads about root_squash cause is already scared		15:41
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X-Fade	qwerty12_N810: Enable interactive mode as an alias?	15:41
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javispedro	https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1307&action=view oh cool, I didn't know I wrote a h-a-m patch ;)	15:42
javispedro	this RTCOMM bug can cause serious confusion :D	15:42
qwerty12_N810	X-Fade: A good idea, but having to answer "yes" is an annoyance to me. Would explain my laziness in using "*" instead of giving file names directly...	15:42
Corsac	zsh asks me if I'm sure only when I use the wildcard	15:43
lcuk2	x-fade, false economy - as soon as you get used to it, and you start using rm -rf thinking you are protected...	15:44
lcuk2	you reinstall a machine or go elsewhere and it wipes everything out	15:44
lcuk2	much worse	15:44
X-Fade	Hehe, yeah true.	15:44
* lcuk2 just avoids the console		15:45
javispedro	at least on fedora they patched rm not to allow "rm -rf /"	15:45
* RST38h sees nothing wrong with rm -rf - less retention = less pain =)		15:45
RST38h	javis: And it is just one of many, MANY misfeatures of Fedora...	15:45
lcuk2	javispedro, but there are circumstances where you want it	15:46
lcuk2	so i hear	15:46
javispedro	then you have to type it in some other way	15:46
lcuk2	some people in a chan were telling me i could become op if i typed that :(	15:46
javispedro	like rm -rf /usr/..	15:46
lcuk2	how will i become op	15:46
RST38h	lcuk2: are you ready for some hard work?	15:47
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lcuk2	im doin some, ive just got a brainf*ck here cos of legacy vb code	15:49
RST38h	lcuk: Ok, get a lipstick and a map of Sweden	15:49
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RST38h	lcuk: Using lipstick, copy the map to your display surface	15:49
RST38h	lcuk: Once you do that, you should instantly become op!	15:50
lcuk2	o rly?	15:50
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lcuk2	on that matter, i have been doing tracings recently lol	15:50
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glass	lcuk2: hehe	15:51
glass	hey anyone want to collaborate on a chess game?	15:52
Macer	screw this. i am too tired to type this out	15:52
Macer	although i have most of it done	15:52
Macer	but i have to make screen shots from the n810 and move them over and blahblahblha	15:52
Macer	i'm going to take a nap. nite	15:52
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lcuk2	glass a real one, or writing a maemo chess game	15:54
zerojay	I've somehow broke media player completely.	15:55
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glass	lcuk2: maemo or other, preferably multiplat	15:56
glass	lcuk2: maybe just web	15:56
glass	lcuk2: i got my chess piece set ready, you see :D http://jussin.net/~glass/chs/pieces.png	15:56
glass	lcuk: chess pieces make for a good modelling practice	15:57
glass	lcuk: actually i'm pretty sure there would be free chess engines to rip off	15:59
RST38h	glass: Just port gnu chess	15:59
RST38h	glass: no need to rip off, port it	16:00
RST38h	Unless you are satisfied with the gnu chess port from osso-games	16:00
glass	RST38h: chess is boring against cpu..	16:00
RST38h	glass: Gnu Chess has multiplayer features	16:00
glass	so in my 'idea' it would have a server that had game states, and supereasy to start a new game	16:00
RST38h	Done already	16:00
RST38h	Waitamoment, will locate info	16:01
glass	RST38h: i'm busy doing more worthwhile stuff, thus was looking for someone to collaborate with	16:01
RST38h	glass: http://www.gnu.org/software/chess/chess_faq.html	16:01
lcuk2	glass, the chess implementation on maemo is actually quite a challenge according to most folks (myself included)	16:02
lcuk2	we should really use gps for chess	16:03
lcuk2	and have players running around real city blocks	16:03
Stskeeps	pacman in the streets of london	16:03
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glass	lcuk2: i'm pretty sure i could find chess programs that would challange me :).. wouldn't make it much more intresting	16:03
lcuk2	obviously, it would need a trip to a grid oriented city	16:03
glass	Stskeeps: pill eating and club hopping? isn't that the norm in uk?	16:04
lcuk2	agreed, heh, with the n900 (assumed cos of your 3d render) you could use the acceleromater to adjust your view	16:04
lcuk2	to look around the board	16:04
glass	yeah	16:05
lcuk2	bbiab	16:05
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roope	Yes, the Maemo Chess is quite tricky. I even filed a bug against it back in the days. :) I tried to make it easier.	16:06
Andy80	is Maemo.org down for you?	16:06
Stskeeps	maemo chess beats me constantly :/	16:06
roope	Or then alternatively I suggested to name the difficulty levels to "Medium", "Hard", "Very Hard".	16:06
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Wooly	hey guys, I downloaded and installed sdlquake, but it segfaults when I try to run it. It gives a FindFile: can't find gfx/pop.lmp error. Any ideas?	16:17
zerojay	Got the original game files installed?	16:19
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Wooly	zerojay: I'm not sure, I downloaded a zip called quakesw... and extracted that into /usr/lib/sdlquake/id1	16:21
Wooly	do I also need a copy of the sdlquake-files.zip extracted there too?	16:22
RST38h	glass: Generally, GNU Chess made most chess programs obsolete, so I would strongly suggest a close look at it first, before trying to do something on your own	16:22
RST38h	glass: If you have an itch for writing a game, I would suggest a clone of Eggerland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggerland_%28series%29) preferably in 3D :)	16:23
glass	RST38h: i got some original ideas too :p	16:24
lcuk2	make notes	16:24
lcuk2	flesh them out keep your ideas together	16:24
X-Fade	Interesting to see how oFono is being tested. Using a usb cable connected to a nokia phone.	16:25
X-Fade	So your N810 could do that too :)	16:25
Wooly	zerojay: Is that what you mean?	16:25
javispedro	still not a single screenshot of the call placing gui? :)	16:25
zerojay	I've never used it, so... Just was a suggestion.	16:25
X-Fade	javispedro: ofono is only the framework. So only cli logs ;)	16:26
Wooly	zerojay: ahh okay, thanks anyway :)	16:26
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RST38h	glass: Lately, every "original" idea I get, I find it already implemented by some Linux guy :)	16:29
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lbt	shoulders of giants RST38h	16:30
lbt	(or lots of midgets anyhow)	16:30
lcuk2	originality isnt important - look at the ipod, there were 100s of mp3 players	16:30
lbt	heh.... "Linux... stand on the shoulders of midgets... lots of them"	16:30
RST38h	lbt: while trying to keep them pacified	16:31
divide_by_zero	it's a distributed thing, the power to raise linux come from lots of small ants!	16:32
divide_by_zero	emergence	16:32
RST38h	Oh cool there is a screenshot-rich Eggerland site: http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/eggerland/eggerland2.htm	16:32
RST38h	And just one guy cloning it (last version released in 2005)	16:32
javispedro	that is a chess game?	16:32
* lbt goes to hack fakeroot and ld-linux..... what could possibly go wrong		16:32
RST38h	javis: no, just a decent puzzle game	16:33
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RST38h	javis: Chess is too easy nowadays (1. Port GNU Chess 2. Done)	16:33
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divide_by_zero	Eggerland is completely awesome!!!!!!!!! but I am used to the MSX version, the graphics look different	16:35
fiferboy_	lbt: Have you tried the finger scrolling changes?	16:36
* RST38h played them all, MSX and NES		16:36
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glass	RST38h: my original ideas are not so much as original as rehashes of old stuff as more playable	16:36
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glass	RST38h: coin-op emulators are a very good source for inspiration	16:36
lbt	fiferboy: I am building it at the moment... it failed in dh_install :(	16:36
RST38h	glass: heh, same here :)	16:36
RST38h	glass: But most dynamic games won't run very well on tablets	16:37
fiferboy	lbt: You went for the packages	16:37
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fiferboy	I usually call it quits when the library is created :)	16:37
glass	RST38h: i coded dynamic games as a kid for dos for 386..	16:37
lbt	fiferboy: Mer build	16:37
RST38h	glass: And for RPGs, I can't think of anything more fruitful than a decent nethack/Angband port with axonometric UI	16:37
lbt	You should see scrolling on the Q7	16:37
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glass	RST38h: plenty of power nowadays on almost every plat if one sticks to basics or trickery	16:37
lbt	667 Mhz CPU :)	16:37
fiferboy	lbt: That would be nice!	16:38
RST38h	glass: those PCs had arrow buttons :)	16:38
glass	RST38h: yeah nethack ui would be sweet	16:38
glass	RST38h: i've played a lot of it	16:38
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* RST38h prefers Angband/Zangband		16:38
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divide_by_zero	see you	16:39
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X-Fade	javispedro: There?	16:40
javispedro	yep	16:40
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X-Fade	javispedro: Ok, rejection was based on confusion ;)	16:40
X-Fade	javispedro: I'm going to try to revert the reject and accept. Let's see if that doesn't break anything ;)	16:41
javispedro	hope so :) Thanks!	16:41
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RST38h	X-Fade: "Yes is no and no is yes. Format drive C? [Yes/No]"	16:46
javispedro	that's a BOFH ripoff ;)	16:46
javispedro	i'm sure the original was unixy	16:47
X-Fade	RST38h: Does recursion come in to play there?	16:47
Wooly	anyone got sdlquake working on their N810 while booting from MMC?	16:48
lcuk2	lbt, vid!	16:49
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lbt	lcuk2: OK, when the latest Qt builds...	16:49
lbt	remind me	16:49
lcuk2	lbt, upload a vid	16:50
* lbt hears a buzzing sound		16:50
RST38h	X-Fade: Who knows...	16:52
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lopz	hola	17:05
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X-Fade	javispedro: Looks like it worked. Don't know if you got a mail, but everything should be setup.	17:09
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javispedro	nope, no email.	17:10
javispedro	I see the repo is up, I'll try to start using it as soon as I sort this caos a bit	17:10
javispedro	thanks again :)	17:11
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lardman	hmm, not liking the look of flights from Berlin to Amsterdam	17:13
Mek	train from berlin to amsterdam is perhaps better?	17:14
Mek	direct train...	17:14
lardman	yeah, will have to look at that	17:16
lardman	any thought on which website to try?	17:16
Mek	bahn.de?	17:16
X-Fade	lardman: transavia.com 30 euro for the 08:45 on thursday.	17:16
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lardman	yeah can't do Thursday have a meeting 'till 4pm	17:17
RST38h	moo lardman	17:17
X-Fade	Yeah, friday is at 15:50	17:17
lardman	unfortuntely Thursday is in the morning	17:17
lardman	hi RST38h	17:17
X-Fade	lardman: http://www.edreams.com/flights/berlin-amsterdam/	17:18
lardman	thanks, will have a look	17:19
lardman	ouch, getting expensive there	17:20
lardman	~210euros	17:20
X-Fade	Doesn't look ok.	17:20
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lardman	hmm train is 6h and arrives pretty late	17:23
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lardman	~80 euros though	17:23
qwerty12_N810	Perhaps you could find some renting a Segway?	17:24
lardman	good call :)	17:24
qwerty12_N810	*someone	17:24
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lcuk2	lardman, ride across europe on a wild boar	17:26
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lardman	am just looking for where to fly to in the middle, then onto Amsterdam	17:27
lardman	perhaps a quick stopover in Ibiza	17:27
lardman	right, Berlin -> Luton -> Amsterdam ~£50	17:28
lardman	what are the thoughts on accommodation atm?	17:30
Mek	find a nice bridge to sleep under?	17:30
lcuk2	sleep where you fall	17:30
javispedro	use that Segway to cover yourself?	17:30
lcuk2	or you can pay for a special hotel. for some reason they charge by the half hour though	17:30
lardman	ah	17:30
lardman	free drugs I assume	17:31
Mek	and you even have to share the room with someone?	17:31
lcuk2	thats extra	17:31
qwerty12_N810	I hear there's handcuffs involved	17:31
lardman	I've got my wife with me	17:32
lardman	so ideal	17:32
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* lardman chokes at the cost of the hotel in Berlin		17:32
lardman	317e is the cheapest rate	17:32
lardman	ah, silly me, that's for a few days	17:33
lardman	thank God	17:33
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andre__	oh nokia, hildon-libs, hildon-widgets, libhildon, .... we should have a proposal contest at the summit to come up with even more names	17:36
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qwerty12_N810	hildon-tablet-launch-countdown	17:37
_berto_	andre__: i don't even know which name to use most of the times :-D	17:37
Stskeeps	we should rename Mer to Freemantle.	17:37
Stskeeps	;P	17:37
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andre__	:-D	17:38
andre__	"hildon-stuff"?	17:38
_berto_	hildon is always hildon -> http://www.winecellarsales.co.uk/acatalog/hildon.jpg	17:38
timeless_mbp	heh	17:39
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_berto_	we should have ordered a few bottles for GCDS	17:39
timeless_mbp	andre__: i hope you don't seriously expect me to be able to find the right component in our bugzilla :)	17:39
andre__	timeless_mbp, found it already	17:39
timeless_mbp	our = public	17:39
timeless_mbp	the internal one is easier	17:39
timeless_mbp	actually no	17:40
andre__	public is easy too :)	17:40
timeless_mbp	not for this bug	17:40
andre__	hildon-widgets. that's all.	17:40
_berto_	file a bug against the organization of bugzilla	17:40
timeless_mbp	i already reorganized it once	17:40
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andre__	maemo.org bugzilla is okay. :-P	17:41
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andre__	it's the tradeoff between "developers' organization" and "users need normal package names to file bugs"	17:41
timeless_mbp	a table would help	17:41
timeless_mbp	normally for localization bugs and spec bugs, the internal one is ok	17:42
timeless_mbp	for anything else, the internal one is a disaster	17:42
timeless_mbp	sadly this isn't really a localization/spec bug	17:42
timeless_mbp	well, it is	17:42
timeless_mbp	but...	17:42
* timeless_mbp goes to see where andre__ put the bug		17:43
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andre__	internal is quite... complicated.	17:43
_berto_	you're talking about #4917 ?	17:43
andre__	yours?	17:43
andre__	to hildon-widgets of course. that's where it belongs.	17:43
andre__	_berto_, yes	17:43
timeless_mbp	andre__: thanks, you made the bug much more readable	17:43
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andre__	heh. welcome	17:44
_berto_	just saw it	17:44
timeless_mbp	_berto_: does the bug actually interest you?	17:44
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thux	they say (joey hess) that palm pre spy phone owner, wonder what info, if any these tablets send to nokia?	17:45
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_berto_	if I understand correctly, we would need those logical strings first, right?	17:46
aquatix	only selected webcam images and videos based on sound recognition	17:46
_berto_	and then we would update hildon-widgets to use the new ones	17:46
timeless_mbp	_berto_: technically yes, but in practice you can immediately create them	17:47
timeless_mbp	by just copying the original string to the pair _am / _pm	17:47
_berto_	yes, but I mean, you're proposing the creation of two strings that don't exist yet?	17:47
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zerojay	Hmm	17:48
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Wooly	has anyone tried the VGBA emulator?	17:49
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javispedro	Wooly, yes	17:55
Wooly	I was thinking of pairing it with a wii remote and the wii remote package, have you tried that also?	17:55
javispedro	nope	17:55
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javispedro	depending on how the wii remote package works (the emu is closed source) it may or may not work	17:56
Wooly	it maps input from the wii remote to x events	17:57
Wooly	simulating keypressed etc	17:57
Wooly	keypresses*	17:57
javispedro	I suppose it'll work then :P	17:58
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Wooly	now it's just a case of actually getting all my GBA games into the emulator, which I guess cant be talked about here?	17:59
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divide_by_zero	great, just found out my firewall blocks port 6667 but doesn't 8001!...	18:09
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lbt	lcuk2: how easy is taking a piccy using the camera? I don't suppose : cp /sys/camera/photo /file.jpg works	18:35
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lcuk2	lbt, no liqbase uses a simplified gstreamer stack/thingy	18:38
lbt	ok, nm then	18:38
lcuk2	there is meant to be a gstreamer command line interface that you could use	18:38
lbt	stupid driver should be exposed via /sys/	18:38
lcuk2	i think there is a photosink	18:38
lcuk2	however for a one shot deal, camera would take >10seconds to warm up	18:39
lcuk2	whichever way you do it	18:39
lbt	still, I guess jpg libs in the kernel may not be so hot ;)	18:39
lcuk2	heh	18:39
lcuk2	dont see why not tho, use it to compress all that meaningless driver code	18:40
lcuk2	it should still look kinda right when you get it back ;)	18:40
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mgedmin	doesn't the camera use v4l?	18:43
lcuk2	yes "v4l2src"	18:44
lcuk2	on n810, dunno if its the same on new device	18:45
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lardman	Right, all booked	19:03
lardman	:)	19:03
* keesj is still alive		19:04
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lardman	cu all later	19:06
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lcuk2	keesj, good to hear it \o	19:14
lcuk2	keesj, what was the name of that camera eye software you had in copenhagen	19:15
lcuk2	lardman was talking about wanting to look into it	19:16
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keesj	lasertraq	19:20
keesj	and motion for the still motion movie I created	19:21
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lcuk2	excellent, cool thx	19:22
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lcuk2	the motion one is especially interesting :)	19:22
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keesj	here is the movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pf9FFojvjE	19:26
keesj	I think the problem with motion was that is doesn't use gstreamer but the v4lv1 api	19:28
ShadowJK	hm?	19:30
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ShadowJK	iirc asking for yuv from v4l1 leads to kernel crapping out	19:30
keesj	the cam is v4l2 AFAICR	19:30
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ShadowJK	or v4l2..	19:31
ShadowJK	I don't think either will give out yuv without kernel going bananas, despite driver claiming it can give out yuv :)	19:32
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keesj	how's lcuk2 doing?	19:45
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lcuk2	keesj, im quite good actually	19:51
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lcuk2	ive finally stopped pulling my hair out	19:52
keesj	happy with the Google SoC stuff?	19:54
keesj	anyway good new I guess	19:55
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lcuk2	keesj, yeah, z4chh has been doing well and things are looking and feeling a lot better	20:02
lcuk2	apologies for lag, im makin t	20:03
z4chh	o.o	20:04
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lcuk2	z4chh, oh you do come in this chan	20:04
z4chh	lol im always idle here	20:04
lcuk2	idle is the word :P	20:04
z4chh	yar	20:05
lcuk2	in all chans	20:05
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lcuk2	z4chh are you goin to any of the us gsoc events	20:06
lcuk2	(are there any happening?)	20:06
keesj	I am not dead I am idle :p	20:06
lcuk2	:D irc ran out of ink	20:08
lcuk2	are you comin to the summit kees?	20:08
keesj	of course	20:09
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lcuk2	excellent, are you presenting anything	20:10
Wooly	I've just downloaded VGBA, but dont have any games for it yet; is there anywhere I can get them from?	20:10
keesj	I also need to help find hotels and such near the location (not that easy)	20:10
lcuk2	yeah you do	20:10
keesj	no , I didn't plan on doing that	20:10
lcuk2	most hotels nearby charge rooms at half hourly rates	20:10
aol	;D	20:11
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lcuk2	Wooly, gameboy roms are something you would have to find on your own - they are afterall copyrighted	20:11
zerojay	You can dump them yourself too.	20:12
lcuk2	do you need extra hardware?	20:12
zerojay	Yep	20:12
lcuk2	ahhh i thought the new style card readers mightv included cb cart slots lol	20:12
Wooly	unfortunately, I dont have the GBA card reader unfortunately :(	20:13
Luke-Jr	Wooly: it's not too hard to find GB ROMs online	20:13
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Luke-Jr	as long as you're only downloading, there's no risk to you	20:13
zerojay	It's still illegal.	20:14
Luke-Jr	not the downloading	20:14
lcuk2	yes, it is.	20:14
Wooly	I'll take a look when I get home :)	20:14
Luke-Jr	no	20:14
zerojay	Yes, the downloading	20:14
Luke-Jr	in most countries, the illegality is on the uploader	20:14
zerojay	That's not the case.	20:14
Luke-Jr	zerojay: then downloading nVidia's blob drivers for Linux is illegal. enjoy your conclusion.	20:15
lcuk2	no, they go after the uploader to stop at source, but downloading copyrighted material is illegal	20:15
lcuk2	its like drug users and drug dealers	20:15
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Luke-Jr	it's not.	20:15
zerojay	Possession of rom images are also illegal.	20:15
Luke-Jr	possession of drugs is actually illegal	20:15
Luke-Jr	zerojay: no	20:15
zerojay	Yes	20:15
Luke-Jr	possession of ROM images is a right guaranteed by copyright law	20:15
GAN800	Legal Advice by Luke-Jr	20:16
lcuk2	if you own the rom	20:16
zerojay	I'm writing this from my desk in the ubisoft building.	20:16
GAN800	Do you have commercials?	20:16
Luke-Jr	lcuk2: if you bought the game at all, even if on a cartridge	20:16
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zerojay	It's illegal, if you have a legal copy of the game or not.	20:16
frenky	hi	20:16
Wooly	but Luke-Jr do you ever actually own the ROM?	20:16
lcuk2	frenky, you best get a helmet and flak jacket	20:16
Wooly	Luke-Jr: or do you just own the right to play it?	20:16
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Luke-Jr	Wooly: generally, you license use of it	20:17
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zerojay	You only buy a license.	20:17
Luke-Jr	which under copyright law entitles you to a backup	20:17
zerojay	Buzzzz	20:17
zerojay	Not for console games.	20:17
zerojay	There's an exception made.	20:17
Luke-Jr	zerojay: where in copyright law is there an exception for "console games"?	20:18
Luke-Jr	furthermore, where is "console games" defined in law?	20:18
Luke-Jr	there is no difference between "console games" and "non-console games"	20:18
Luke-Jr	they're both mere data	20:18
zerojay	I've got work to do. The rom images are illegal, plain and simple.	20:18
Luke-Jr	nonsense, zerojay	20:18
Luke-Jr	it's just FUD	20:18
zerojay	It's not.	20:19
lcuk2	most roms come with copyright protection circuits/software encryption - the DMCA makesz it explicitely forbidden to break these i believe	20:19
zerojay	Bingo.	20:19
Luke-Jr	lcuk2: that's another matter	20:19
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lcuk2	thats the law	20:19
ShadowJK	I thought dmca only bans "effective" protections :-)	20:19
lcuk2	don't copy that floppy	20:19
ShadowJK	only bans breaking of...	20:19
Luke-Jr	if someone else breaks it, though, it doesn't affect your right to have a backup copy	20:19
Wooly	handbags at dawn	20:19
Luke-Jr	also	20:19
javispedro	at, the eternal debate.	20:19
Luke-Jr	GB games mostly don't have any kind of protection	20:20
woglinde	hi javis	20:20
zerojay	Backup does not apply and all eulas for games that you agree to for games make you give up that right anyways.	20:20
javispedro	hi all	20:20
Luke-Jr	zerojay: when I buy a game, I never agree to an EULA	20:20
zerojay	Being on the cart counts as protection.	20:20
Wooly	i didn't think the EULA was enforceable by law?	20:20
zerojay	Yes, you do.	20:20
Luke-Jr	EULAs have no legal force in most cases	20:20
Luke-Jr	because you never agree to them	20:21
Luke-Jr	if I pay $100 for a license, and it is accepted, and I have not had to agree to any contract, that's the end of it	20:21
zerojay	You agree to them when you remove the shrink wrap.	20:21
Luke-Jr	zerojay: nope	20:21
aol	which country's law are you talking about	20:21
zerojay	Lol	20:21
Luke-Jr	nobody sees the EULA before you remove the shrink wrap	20:22
aol	or are you assuming every country has same laws	20:22
zerojay	I'm sitting here with a lawyer laughing at this.	20:22
zerojay	Have fun, lol	20:22
Wooly	http://www.sealandgov.org/	20:22
aol	I'm sitting here with queen of England	20:23
Wooly	well ladies, I'd love to stay and chat, but I feel if I dont get out of work soon, I might kill a kitten	20:23
aol	she's not amused	20:23
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Luke-Jr	"The enforceability of an EULA depends on several factors, one of them being the court in which the case is heard. Some courts that have addressed the validity of the shrinkwrap license agreements have found some EULAs to be invalid, characterizing them as contracts of adhesion, unconscionable, and/or unacceptable pursuant to the U.C.C."	20:23
divide_by_zero	What if you have a computer virus that goes on accepting all eulas without you ever reading them?	20:23
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zerojay	Regardless of eula, it's illegal, case closed.	20:23
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Wooly	tattie bye folks	20:23
Luke-Jr	ROMs are a guaranteed right in copyright law. Breaking copy protection is illegal, but does not repeal that right AFAIK	20:24
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zerojay	It's not guaranteed.	20:24
Luke-Jr	and cartridges are a medium of data storage, not copy protection	20:24
javispedro	it's definitely illegal, but what isn't?	20:24
GAN800	Public beatings of javispedro. :P	20:25
divide_by_zero	i've heard in some places even suicide is illegal!	20:25
zerojay	In the us, it's illegal since 83 to make backups of game roms.	20:25
lcuk2	common sense says: someone spent time and money to create that rom and its not your place to second guess their licensing choices	20:25
lcuk2	so unless it says "you can copy this game/rom/program. dont do it	20:26
RST38h	What ROMs?	20:26
zerojay	The law allowingbackups was made for magnetic media which fails fast.	20:26
GAN800	Common sense says copyright should be for a reasonable term.	20:26
javispedro	i don't know, have you been discussing this since I departed?	20:26
RST38h	Gentlemen, first of all if you dump an unencrypted ROM, you are not breaking copyright protection	20:26
zerojay	Carts do not fall into that.	20:26
lcuk2	GAN800, all software created before 1908 is in the public domain	20:26
RST38h	zerojay: Encrypted cards like NDS do not	20:26
Luke-Jr	zerojay: the law specifically says "magnetic media"?	20:26
* javispedro checks the logs		20:27
javispedro	ah, some guy asked for gba roms here.	20:27
RST38h	Secondly, if you own the actual ROM, the only thing that prevents from using it out of the cartridge form is the EULA	20:27
zerojay	Atari vs Js&A - look it up.	20:27
zerojay	Wrong, rst.	20:27
RST38h	Atari actually took some effort to protect their ROMs	20:27
lcuk2	yeah, they set up missile defenses near athe major cities!	20:28
* lcuk2 loves that game		20:28
zerojay	Illegal, protection or not.	20:28
javispedro	zerojay, I'm not sure about that last affirmation.	20:29
zerojay	At least in nthe us.	20:29
javispedro	afaik there are dead-simple copy protection schemes	20:29
RST38h	zerojay: That is one court case based on the false assumption by the court. Should I quote?	20:29
javispedro	just designed so that you can say "yes, I put it one! see!!"	20:29
zerojay	Please do.	20:29
RST38h	"The court found that a computer program embedded within a piece of hardware, such as the ROMs used within a typical videogame cartridge, cannot be reprogrammed or erased."	20:30
Luke-Jr	Atari vs JS&A looks utterly retarded	20:30
Luke-Jr	it had nothing to do with breaking copy protection or such	20:30
RST38h	zerojay: The problem here is that ROMs can be erased, even if they are mask ROMs	20:30
zerojay	Regardless, it set up the way things are.	20:30
RST38h	zerojay: And you do not even need to physically destroy the chip	20:30
Luke-Jr	JS&A needs to get better witnesses	20:30
zerojay	Roms are far less volitile than magnetic media.	20:31
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ShadowJK	roms are hardwired...	20:31
RST38h	Shadow: What kind of ROMs?	20:31
RST38h	Shadow: I know of at least 3	20:31
RST38h	Shadow: One is electrically erasable	20:32
Luke-Jr	zerojay: not true	20:32
RST38h	Shadow: One can be erased by UV radiation	20:32
zerojay	Haha	20:32
ShadowJK	EEPROM and EPROM? :-)	20:32
zerojay	I guess the sky is red in your world.	20:32
Luke-Jr	ROMs can easily break by power surge or such	20:32
RST38h	Shadow: And the last one is mask ROMs which are supposed to be unerasable but can be fucked up all the same	20:32
zerojay	That's far more rare.	20:32
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Luke-Jr	Optical media, like CDs, have a better argument than ROMs	20:32
RST38h	zerojay: Mask ROMs? Everywhere in game carts.	20:33
ShadowJK	mask ROMs are like any other circuitry... breaks the same way	20:33
Luke-Jr	zerojay: more rare than a super-strong magnet?	20:33
RST38h	ShadowJK: Almost...	20:33
zerojay	Yes.	20:33
Luke-Jr	power surges are more common than super-strong magnets	20:33
zerojay	Everytime magnetic media is read, it's slightly corrupted.	20:33
Luke-Jr	zerojay: Atari vs JS&A was effectively overturned by Vault vs Quaid	20:33
RST38h	ShadowJK: Except that correctly applied high (+24V or so) voltage is known to make...mm..."modifications" to them	20:33
zerojay	Therefore why you have the right to backups.	20:34
ShadowJK	They're far more likely to break when the user has his machine full of grit, shit and dust, and then rubs the cart against his wool sweatshirt to "clean" it..	20:34
RST38h	Also, the case is based on the idea that the user backs up the ROM	20:34
RST38h	The user may also choose to USE the ROM in a system different from the one it was designed for	20:34
Luke-Jr	that's also legal	20:34
RST38h	In this case, the only thing stopping him is the EULA	20:34
zerojay	Lol	20:34
Luke-Jr	EULAs have no legal force here	20:35
RST38h	Well, this depends on the country	20:35
RST38h	And the way these EULAs are presented to the user	20:35
RST38h	Nintendo used to have them tucked away in the game booklets	20:35
zerojay	It's hilarious that i'm here with an expert on this law and you guys are saying he's wrong, hahaha	20:36
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aol	EULAs dont mean shit over here	20:36
zerojay	Anyways, back to submission testing... Fun fun.	20:36
Luke-Jr	zerojay: a biased "expert" I bet	20:36
Stskeeps	zerojay: ah, you're at work :)	20:36
aol	(Finland)	20:36
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zerojay	Indeed, i am at work.	20:36
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zerojay	One of the best jobs in the world even on bad days.	20:37
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Luke-Jr	sure you want a company lawyer to know you're slacking off on IRC on company time? ;)	20:38
zerojay	Did you know the world click is banned from all games for nintendo platforms?	20:38
zerojay	I work in a game studio. It's not nose to the grindstone stuff. :)	20:39
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zerojay	All my work for the week is already done anyways.	20:39
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aol	I did not know I care	20:39
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X-Fade	Not that is a concept: "All my work is done"	20:40
X-Fade	Sweet!	20:40
zerojay	Now you know.	20:40
timeless_mbp	hello world	20:40
linuxeventually	Why is "click" banned? o.O	20:40
X-Fade	s/Not/Now/	20:40
zerojay	Well, there are just times when work is blocked... So...	20:40
timeless_mbp	aol: are you near HEL?	20:41
aol	yeah	20:41
X-Fade	zerojay: And then there is nothing else you can do?	20:41
zerojay	Click is banned because they want you to use terms like press and push.	20:41
X-Fade	zerojay: That is a single track line of work then ;)	20:41
linuxeventually	Ah	20:41
zerojay	Not for the moment.	20:41
timeless_mbp	aol: at some point we'll probably go off to dinner near kamppi in case you're really nearby :)	20:41
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zerojay	No, not usually. This is one of those times though.	20:42
qwerty12_N810	X-Fade: Your job must be good, too; you're always on IRC ;P	20:42
aol	timeless_mbp: sounds good	20:42
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X-Fade	qwerty12_N810: Ah, but I'm getting payed to scan it ;)	20:42
qwerty12_N810	lol, getting paid for IRC :P	20:43
qwerty12_N810	That is a real job :(	20:43
X-Fade	qwerty12_N810: Well not exactly, but yeah it is one of the ways information comes in yes.	20:44
GAN800	lol	20:46
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zerojay	Be a social marketer. You can just sit and post to twitter every few days. ;)	20:47
javispedro	:D	20:47
javispedro	and twitter posts are 140-ish chars	20:47
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javispedro	so you're not going to get RSI either	20:47
zerojay	Probably another job i'm going to be absorbing here.	20:47
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aol	my hobby == my work	20:51
aol	it's odd it's still fun :)	20:51
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zerojay	What do you do?	20:51
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aol	programming	20:51
divide_by_zero	programming what with what? :]	20:53
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zerojay	Computers with fingers. ;)	20:54
aol	C++ and mobile devices	20:54
aol	I don't care much which platform as the applications is what I like doing, not the platform itself	20:54
zerojay	Did mobile games with java and brew for a while until the company switched focus.	20:55
aol	nevertheless I'm quite excited about RX-51	20:55
lcuk2	the platform decides the options available	20:55
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zerojay	Ever worked on the nokia 3650/7650?	20:55
aol	yes.	20:56
zerojay	What hell.	20:56
glass	as well	20:56
glass	erm. not on the platform itself	20:56
aol	I did lot of stuff for the first S60	20:56
aol	apps, not the platform	20:56
zerojay	Garbage collection was completely broken. Lol	20:56
glass	aol: though do mmf plugins count as part of plat?	20:56
lcuk2	apps need the platform to stand on	20:56
aol	I do C++, I dont care for garbage collection	20:56
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glass	actually one could do very nice stuff for j2me on 3650	20:57
glass	the vm was just full of bugs	20:57
zerojay	The phone just never would remove anything marked dirty	20:57
zerojay	Yep.	20:57
glass	for example the nokia triangle drawing method	20:57
glass	if you used it as the first thing, it crashed the whole phone	20:57
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glass	but if you placed, say 10 meaningless color settings, it didn't crash	20:58
zerojay	There was a nice samsung whose drawline method was off by one pixel.	20:58
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glass	heh	20:58
zerojay	If you drew 1 pixel lines... Well... Nothing would show.	20:58
aol	sounds like just normal day with Symbian	20:58
zerojay	Pretty much.	20:59
lcuk2	sounds liek a normal day with computers	20:59
aol	nowadays it's better as you can go read the source code	20:59
aol	but that's pretty new in symbian world	20:59
zerojay	Yeah, we didn't have that chance back then	20:59
glass	aol: once one learnt the holes, gamedev on j2me on 3650 became a breeze	20:59
aol	yeah well application development on 3rd edition is the same	21:00
glass	aol: but i knew c++ would be faster.. which is why turned to it	21:00
zerojay	Even gameloft couldn't figure out the 3650.	21:00
aol	I know pretty much 20 ways to make different phones to freeze totally :)	21:00
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glass	i just got my first m3g cube to show up!	21:00
glass	on the subject	21:00
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ipndrmath	Question: Is there a way to lock and unlock the N810 via the command line?	21:01
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aol	now I'm learning iPhone ... I thought it would be wise to come out of the closet early	21:01
lcuk2	glass, which platform	21:01
aol	but I refused to swap my work phone to iPhone .... as I'm waiting for RX-51 :D	21:01
zerojay	We've been using unity for iphone dev.	21:02
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aol	my company does sw for iphone, maemo, symbian, blackberry, android and windows mobile so it's quite nice to learn different stuff	21:03
aol	I guess it would be quite risky to do only symbian projects, as you can loose your business overnight at some point	21:04
aol	or Windows Mobile ... or ....	21:04
javispedro	or Palm.	21:04
aol	yes	21:04
javispedro	(which has happened recently so it's a good example ;) )	21:04
aol	most of the stuff is still Symbian	21:05
aol	lot of iPhone and Android lately .. surprisingly WM too	21:05
aol	I guess there is some push because of 6.5	21:05
VDVsx	consultancy company or a real software house ? :)	21:07
glass	lcuk2: j2me on symbian	21:08
glass	lcuk2: i wanna find out how usable it could be	21:09
zerojay	One of our worst programmers was let go last year and he started working for a consultancy company.	21:09
glass	zerojay: he wont work forever	21:09
zerojay	Which works almost exclusively for the government.	21:09
glass	ah, 4 years then	21:09
zerojay	Which explains why the government sent me a check for $-0.00 last week.	21:09
ipndrmath	Or ... does anyone know the softkey (i.e. F1) for the lock slider?	21:10
VDVsx	ipndrmath, did you tried to inspect the d-bus message, while you lock and unlock the device ?	21:11
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aol	VDVsx: software factory	21:12
aol	VDVsx: no own products	21:12
qwerty12_N810	ipndrmath: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20599	21:12
ipndrmath	No I hadn't. I'm currently away from the device and VNCed in, but it doesn't respond as the device is locked.	21:12
ipndrmath	k, thax one min	21:13
VDVsx	qwerty12_N810, just found the same	21:13
VDVsx	:)	21:13
qwerty12_N810	:)	21:13
VDVsx	google skills , lol	21:13
aol	we don't really do concultancy, but software projects .... just with other peoples ideas (and risk :)	21:13
ipndrmath	Ah, thanks. My search skills failed me.	21:13
ipndrmath	I appreciate it. :)	21:14
VDVsx	aol, ah, now I get it :)	21:14
VDVsx	ipndrmath, :)	21:15
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z4chh	X-Fade,	21:22
z4chh	around? :P	21:22
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javispedro	bah	21:33
javispedro	hum	21:33
javispedro	er.. nothing.	21:34
lcuk2	heh	21:34
javispedro	zerojay, do you have some benchmarks about that snesadvance.dat thing? some games I tested gain "a mere" 5fps, while others lose 1fps.	21:35
lcuk2	javispedro, how did your frame skip timing loop doofer go	21:35
javispedro	lcuk2, it's a monster now :P	21:35
javispedro	but I like it	21:36
* RST38h moos		21:36
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zerojay	No. Sorry	21:36
javispedro	it plans when the next frame "should" be drawn	21:36
RST38h	javis: what have you optimized?	21:36
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javispedro	i was trying to use the snesadvance dat thing, which is a db of "patches" to games	21:37
javispedro	they basically list at which point the game is waiting for the video irq	21:37
javispedro	so that emu can just fire it at that point and skip the wait	21:37
RST38h	oh	21:39
RST38h	bad, bad kludge	21:39
javispedro	video irq, i mean the blanking interrupt or whatever is called	21:39
* RST38h never falls this low		21:39
javispedro	they say it helps a lot	21:40
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RST38h	it's cheating	21:40
javispedro	but I guess the limit on the n8x0 is still rendering and not cpu emu	21:40
Luke-Jr	it's optimizing	21:40
RST38h	no, this one is cheating	21:40
RST38h	javis: Not really :)	21:40
Luke-Jr	is it?	21:41
zerojay	It is cheating, but that's why they are called speed hacks. ;)	21:41
Luke-Jr	sounds to me like nooping a second-counter and providing that value in native code when needed	21:41
RST38h	You have not seen speed hacks	21:41
zerojay	Righhht.	21:41
zerojay	Damn ndas.	21:42
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Luke-Jr	that said, shouldn't a N8x0 be able to emulate something as old as a SNES easily?	21:42
RST38h	Yes and no	21:42
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RST38h	65816 CPU should not be a problem if done in ARM assembler	21:42
zerojay	Emulators are getting more accurate, so as work continues, it'll get slower.	21:43
RST38h	Video is a bitch though. SNES supports up to 4 (?) playfields overlaid on top of each other	21:43
javispedro	yep	21:43
javispedro	a lot	21:43
zerojay	Bsnes is bus-accurate.	21:43
RST38h	+ sprites, + rotation	21:43
RST38h	+ color effecs	21:43
zerojay	Yes, 4	21:43
RST38h	Nobody needs bus-accurate	21:44
zerojay	Rotation only on background layers.	21:44
RST38h	As long as it plays the games nobody cares how it is done	21:44
zerojay	Aside from sprites.	21:44
RST38h	Also, there is APU	21:44
javispedro	the cpu is already in ARM (that's the main difference from previous snes ports).	21:44
RST38h	SNES APU is a separate CPU	21:44
javispedro	the spc700 too.	21:44
javispedro	(in ARM I mean)	21:44
zerojay	True, in general.	21:45
javispedro	a bit verbosey for my linking though.	21:45
RST38h	And then there is sound problem	21:45
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javispedro	*liking.	21:45
RST38h	If you do not fill up audio buffer in time, your sound will suck (see VGBA)	21:45
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javispedro	i prefer reasonable audio and playable games.	21:46
Luke-Jr	Freeciv!	21:46
lcuk2	RST38h, cant you cheat re graphics, or do you need pixel perfect	21:46
RST38h	javis: If you can't get into 50fps or higher, there will be audio problem	21:46
RST38h	lcuk: Goooood question	21:47
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javispedro	RST38h, the cpu is not the problem.	21:47
javispedro	rendering is.	21:47
RST38h	lcuk: You cant, usually, because the resolution is already 256x224	21:47
RST38h	javis: exactly	21:47
zerojay	You can cheat some stuff like mode 7.	21:47
RST38h	javis: and only when you have got enough playfields	21:47
lcuk2	original liqbase has a 512*448 resolution specifically for this ;)	21:47
RST38h	javis: One or two playfields are fine	21:47
lcuk2	when discussing it with pupnik lol	21:47
javispedro	which means than audio only gets bad if the thing can't keep up while frameskipping	21:48
RST38h	correct	21:48
javispedro	or if the sync code is awful (which may be the case :P ;) )	21:48
RST38h	but you can't frameskip more than 70% frames	21:48
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zerojay	But not much.	21:48
RST38h	javis: at some point you will come to conclusion that you cannot sync with the physical audio	21:49
lcuk2	RST38h, last thing i heard, there was an RGB xv mode somewhere around	21:49
zerojay	Frameskip also kills control.	21:49
RST38h	no	21:49
RST38h	you can still read controls at full rate	21:49
javispedro	in fact I currently do, which I shouldn't	21:50
zerojay	Yes, i know, but the perception that you lost some control happens anyways.	21:50
RST38h	javis: So, leave the physical audio run and just top up the phsysical buffer	21:50
javispedro	this follows a nice approach. there's a separate thread "rendering" audio.	21:50
RST38h	zerojay: As I said, anything with >70% frameskip is doomed to suck	21:50
RST38h	javis: there always is	21:51
javispedro	since the apu is mostly separated from the rest of the snes it makes sense	21:51
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RST38h	javis: in some cases you do not have a thread, you just have hardware dma	21:51
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javispedro	btw, xsp is very nice	21:52
RST38h	xsp is?	21:52
javispedro	either it interpolates a bit or I am losing sight, cause it looks god.	21:52
javispedro	pixel doubling	21:53
RST38h	Oh	21:53
RST38h	Ok, you may want to look at my stuff	21:53
RST38h	And win yourself a few fps	21:53
RST38h	The nice interpolated effect you see is probably caused by hardware zooming in N810	21:54
RST38h	But you can access it directly, this way you avoid X11	21:54
javispedro	oh, you are fms!	21:56
javispedro	lol I didn't know !	21:56
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javispedro	well, gotta go, will need to read a goot git tutorial :)	22:01
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lcuk2	X-Fade, (or anyone) how long before "queued for loading into repository" and availablility in the repository	22:12
lcuk2	is it pot luck? 3 weeks? 10 minutes?	22:13
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johnsq	Hi	22:16
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lcuk2	hi johnsq	22:19
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divide_by_zero	cya	22:43
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Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: sent you mail @gmail - the HAM strings are probably obsolete in 0.16 though	22:51
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lcuk2	if i install a .deb by double clicking, would it look on the repositories for dependencies	23:14
qwerty12_N810	Nope	23:14
johnsq	lcuk2: no, but fails, if something missing	23:15
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lcuk2	dang	23:15
lcuk2	can i have a .install file to start install of a library	23:15
lcuk2	which normally wouldnt be listed	23:16
zakkm	lcuk2: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/install/extras-devel.install ?	23:16
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lcuk2	zakkm, not what im after	23:16
lcuk2	ive got an app binary .deb - its not in extras-devel	23:16
lcuk2	but the library is	23:16
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zakkm	you want a .install that will install library then apps?	23:17
qwerty12_N810	lcuk2: No, packages without a category that is not user/ cannot be installed directly (in blue pill mode), only as part of a dependency of another program that has a section of user/	23:17
lcuk2	how can that library be installed by someone thats not a command line ninja	23:17
zakkm	.deb open in application manage,r and checks repository for the dependencies , doesnt it?	23:18
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lcuk2	o_O you are right	23:18
lcuk2	it does	23:18
lcuk2	its only dpkg -i that doesnt	23:18
lcuk2	thats it zakkm, it will do it then?	23:18
zakkm	if library is in repository,, and they open deb in application manager	23:19
zakkm	it will download the dependencies from repository	23:19
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zakkm	if commandline.. it wont get	23:19
lcuk2	because from a command line, you go straight to dpkg	23:19
zakkm	dpkg -i cant read repositories	23:19
lcuk2	instead of the fluff around it	23:19
zakkm	application manager will apt-get the libs itself	23:19
lcuk2	perfect! :D	23:19
fiferboy	How is opening a local deb in the app manager any different from double-clicking on it?	23:19
zakkm	its not	23:19
zakkm	if you double click it, it opens app manager and opens deb	23:20
zakkm	its the same thing with a different route	23:20
lcuk2	fiferboy, no, i didnt know what app it brought up	23:20
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zakkm	but if you do dpkg -i ____ .. it doesnt read repositories, dpkg doesnt do that	23:20
zakkm	app manager will read the dependency part of the deb file, get them through repository , and then dpkg -i the deb	23:21
fiferboy	Have you tried that? I thought it failed if it didn't have the dependencies already installed...	23:21
qwerty12_N810	It does.	23:21
* lcuk2 cannot test really		23:21
zakkm	lcuk2: ill test if you want?	23:22
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lcuk2	ive got the libs installed by non standard means	23:22
zakkm	i got a empty maemo install	23:22
fiferboy	qwerty12_N810: Does fail, or does process deps?	23:22
zakkm	send theee deb	23:22
qwerty12_N810	fiferboy: fails	23:22
fiferboy	I was pretty sure it would	23:22
qwerty12_N810	You get a nice "Application packages missing"	23:22
zakkm	thats only if its not in repository, isnt it qwerty12_N810 ?	23:22
zakkm	the dependencies	23:22
qwerty12_N810	It only resolves dependencies if the program you are installing is in a repository	23:23
lcuk2	:(	23:23
lcuk2	do i have to make my own repo?	23:24
lcuk2	shite! liqbase is fast. i'd forgotten how quick	23:25
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lcuk2	hmmm	23:25
lcuk2	bbl	23:25
Tomaterr	is there an unzipper for maemo?	23:27
qwerty12_N810	I assume you mean something graphical? If so, there's xarchiver in Extras	23:28
Tomaterr	ty	23:28
Tomaterr	awesome	23:29
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woglinde	re javis	23:34
Tomaterr	isn't xarchiver just a front end?	23:34
qwerty12_N810	Yes, but there is also unzip in the same repository	23:35
qwerty12_N810	(Should be better than the Busybox one...)	23:35
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Tomaterr	ah	23:36
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