IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-08-08

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lardmanhmm, too much tapas00:23
* lardman is feeling even more lardy00:23
woglindeI need some bacon00:24
woglindehot and spicy now00:24
lardmanhmm, had king prawns wrapped in bacon, quite nice00:24
* lcuk offers mr kipling lemon slices00:25
lardmannope, more wine should do the trick I hope00:25
lardmanbut thanks :)00:25
lcukyou allowed to open it tonight?00:25
lardmanalready done00:26
lcukwoglinde, hot n spicy bacon o_O00:26
lardmanI just thought I'd get in trouble yesterday as Holly had already gone to bed00:26
* lcuk raises a glass00:26
lcukwhy? would she shout cos the wine would be flat when she poured it on her cornflakes?00:27
woglindehm its to warm for just one beer00:27
woglindenow I am drunken00:27
lcuki have many00:27
lcukwhole box in fridge for once00:27
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GAN800Half of Europe seems to be in the store today.00:34
RST38hit is kinda late for them too00:34
lcukdid they swim?00:37
* javispedro finally finds a really useful gdb feature, only to discover it's not even implemented in the lenny version of gdb: :(00:38
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RST38hjavis: "bt"?00:38
javispedrouseless when combined with gdb's inabilty to bt when SIGILL00:39
RST38hhow do you hit a sigill?00:39
javispedrosome random code branched to some random location00:39
RST38hah ok00:39
javispedroso as soon as it reaches the random location, it SIGILLs00:39
javispedrobut of course00:39
javispedrothere is no way for me to discover which instruction branched there00:40
RST38hwell, this should not destruct the stack00:40
RST38hso you should still know what function called the function that branched00:40
javispedroa, manually locking at it!00:40
* rkirti waits eagerly for something like JIVE to be extended to other langauges00:40
* GAN800 mutters irritated things about the entitled central European tourists we get here.00:41
javispedro*manually looking at it00:42
RST38hjavis: actually, gdb should do this for you as well, everything but the last call00:43
javispedroRST38h, it does not. somehow it gets confused and says empty stack. I google and there seems to be a few cases of this00:43
RST38hstupid stupid gdb00:44
woglindepatch it00:44
javispedro("SIGILL gdb arm backtrace")00:44
* RST38h looks in awe at the VAX RET instruction00:45
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RST38hrestore FP,AP,PC, then optionally restore other 12 registers (there is a control word on stack that says which ones) then optionally restore SP, then update flags (but not ALL flags, just SOME) and finally jump to PC!00:46
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RST38hTHAT is a real architecture, not your puny mov pc,lr!00:47
woglinderst *g*00:47
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javispedroARM has nearly 90% of that: LDMIA ! ^  ;)00:47
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JaffaRover's got FCC docs submitted:
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RST38hJaffa: Ahhhaaaa!!!!00:52
javispedroRX-51 indeed00:52
RST38hlick the screen, quickly00:53
GAN800Somebody ID the buttons and ports.00:53
JaffaEngadget playing it dumb, or rather not doing any journalism to verify RX-51 is a known ID00:53
javispedromirror the whole fcc site before it's slashdotted :)00:53
javispedroengadget IS dumb00:53
RST38hwell it has got something like a lock switch on the bottom00:54
javispedrowhen the rover mockup appeared, they did not know what the "light sensor hole" was for00:54
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RST38hpower button at the same spot as in N81000:54
RST38htwo more (possibly three) buttons on the top, look very much like FullScreen toggle and +-00:55
RST38hFolks, is it a microphone at the upper right corner or am I seeing things?00:55
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GAN800No kickstand. . . .00:56
GAN800I see speakers.00:56
RST38hah forget the kickstand...where are the speakers?00:56
GAN800RST38h, bet it's a camera button and not fullscreen.00:56
GAN800The bumpy looking matched squares towards the left.00:57
javispedrothe stylus sylo seems to have been moved to the bottom00:57
RST38heGPRS850, WCDMA 1700/1200, WiFi00:57
GAN800When's the confidentiality expire?00:57
RST38hThey said no stylus, so is it back in?00:57
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javispedrojust guessing, what's on the bottom left corner?00:58
RST38hAnd now, gentlement...00:58
RST38hThis device has Voice-over-IP/Dual Transfer Mode capability for use at the ear. Therefore, SAR00:58
RST38hfor multi slot GPRS mode was evaluated against the head profile of the phantom. Dual Transfer00:58
RST38hMode is a feature that utilises the multi-slot GPRS capability in this device; it allows00:58
RST38hsimultaneous transmission of voice and data during the same call, using the same transmitter00:58
VDVsxso has phone capabilities :)00:58
RST38hand antenna.00:58
GAN800Is that the 5800's batt?00:59
RST38hNow you have it00:59
RST38hYou are supposed to hold the sucker to your ear00:59
RST38hSo, no headset-only operation00:59
GAN800AC-10E charger00:59
GAN800WH-205 headset.00:59
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JaffaRST38h: They never said no stylys definitely00:59
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GAN800Little pissant 1320mAh battery01:00
RST38hWon't a higher capacity one fit? I mean, all Nokia batteries look the same to me...01:01
javispedrolol, more hardware but less battery?01:01
RST38hConfidential for 90 days01:01
GAN800BP-4L has different pins.01:01
RST38hWhoever hoped for 2 weeks, can exhale now.01:01
GAN800They better not ship in Nov.01:02
javispedroT:\Projects\RX-51\TestPlan_RS\RS_testplan_RX-51.xls lol01:02
RST38hnaaah, it is just a standard time period01:02
RST38hdoes not indicate shipment date01:02
RST38hjavis: Any other stuff in those files? A few hidden binary blobs with images? =)01:02
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javispedronot al all, just found that path is actually visible data :P01:03
javispedropage 201:03
JaffaFM TX01:03
RST38hyea, knew that one already01:03
JaffaAny mention of GPS? Was mentioned in N810s FCC docs IIRC01:03
RST38hI hope tv out is there too01:03
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RST38hI do not see any mention of gps in the report01:04
RST38hbut the report only seems to deal with transmitting equipment01:04
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lcukis one of the pdfs broken01:04
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lcukid label/location info01:04
VDVsxcamera cover -> Camera Slide closed01:04
RST38hyea, GAN is absolutely right, it has got speaker grills on top/bottom sides01:04
JaffaRST38h: Yeah, which is why I was surprised to see it on the N810 docs01:05
JaffaWhich PDF has the layouts?01:05
javispedrothere's only one layout, the one engadget shown01:05
RST38hJaffa: Sticker placement01:05
RST38hor whatever it is called...FCC ID label01:06
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javispedrowell, up so far, only the kickstand absence worries me01:07
lcukwhat is phantom head01:08
JaffaNo kickstands a kicker. Maybe it slides the screen like an N97?01:08
GAN800Stylus is on the bottom right.01:08
Jaffalcuk: Simulation of human head01:08
GAN800Jaffa, let's hope.01:08
GAN800removing the kickstand would truly be the dumbest thing they've ever done.01:08
lcukMeasurements were made in “cheek” and “tilt” positions on both the left hand and right hand01:08
lcuksides of the phantom. o_O you are right01:08
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GAN800and they've done some idiotic goddamn shit.01:09
javispedroGAN800, ... the dumbest thing they've ever done... for now. ;)01:09
GAN800javispedro, Nokia is a company that excells at dashing my optimism.01:09
GAN800Thanlfully I don't have any left.01:09
infobotGAN800 meant: Thankfully I don't have any left.01:10
javispedroOn the other side. If i were to choose between horrid N810-like GPS and kickstand, I would still choose horrid GPS.01:10
RST38hGAN: You seriously can't think of dumber things than removing a kickstand? =)01:11
RST38hI mean, possibilities boggle the mind...01:12
GAN800Without kickstand a large number of my use cases just go right out the window.01:12
javispedroRST38h, I once said in the forums it was the N810 feature that most impressed. I still find it true.01:12
GAN800Clearly Nokia listens and cares what their customers think, though.01:12
javispedro*most impressed me, of course.01:12
RST38hI am sure you can make one, quickly01:12
RST38hlike the one 5800 comes with, you can actually use that one01:12
GAN800The 5800 comes with a 770 stand.01:13
* RST38h has got his 810 in a case, so no kickstand, no removing SD card, and no USB01:13
RST38hBut it feels just like a little paperback when using FBReader rotated by 270o01:13
lcukleather carry round?01:14
javispedrothe easter egg for the rover: kickstand, but you have to unsolder it first :P01:14
RST38hyes, the one from Boxwave01:14
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RST38hjavis: Or, what we think is a stylus, is actually a collapsible kickstand01:15
RST38hlcuk: the coolest thing is that keyboard still works under a layer of soft plastic :)01:15
javispedroit looks "an awful lok like a stylus", in Engadget words :P01:16
infobotjavispedro meant: it looks "an awful lot like a stylus", in Engadget words :P01:16
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javispedrooh well, not that much new information anyway01:17
* lardman tries to decide between DSP hacking and watching the cricket highlights01:17
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* javispedro grabs popcorn and browses to tmo01:18
woglindelardman what you are doing with dsp?01:18
lardmanwoglinde: hmm, we'll see01:18
lardmanFFT analysis of microphone input01:18
lcuklol woglinde if he has asked the question it means cricket has already won01:18
lardmanjust as a little project01:18
lardmanlcuk: so true01:19
RST38hjavis: well we now know for sure it is a real phone01:19
lardmanbut I will come back afterwards :)01:19
RST38hjavis: not a sidekick-like gadget01:19
lcuklardman, no1 has done anything fun with the mic before01:19
lcukits gonna have practical benefits here for many things i think01:19
lcuk(around here i mean)01:20
RST38hlardman: I can drop a couple fun projects related to that01:20
RST38hlardman: HAM radio related01:20
lcuk:D irc 0.101:21
lardmansomeone was asking for a graphical equaliser sort of animation a while back and I said no problem, but didn't have time to do it01:21
javispedromultiplayer notepad 0.0101:21
lardmanRST38h: sure thing, write up what you;re after01:21
lardmanand send me a link and we can sort something ouyt01:21
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lardmanhmm, wine is stopping typing working too well ;)01:22
RST38hlardman: There is a program (WACARS) that will decode ACARS messages from an audio input connected to a radio scanner01:22
lcukRST38h, i read that as finishing aircraft comms addressing and rebooting system01:22
lcuki thought "why would you reboot a plane in the air"01:22
RST38hlardman: It is pretty neat, will even let you map flight locations01:22
lardmanRST38h: sounds interesting01:22
javispedro"why would you finish an aircraft" sounds like an interesting question too :D01:22
lardmanwill presumably let me know when the next Airbus is falling out of the sky..? ;)_01:23
lcukwow RST38h thats cool01:23
RST38hlardman: There is a few other digital comm protocols that you can try decoding, although most people agree that these will require a special piece of hardware01:23
RST38hlardman: Very simple piece, but still01:23
* lcuk goes back to particles01:23
RST38hlardman: More or less. ACARS is basically telemetry, so you will know in advance, yes01:23
javispedrotmo is right01:24
_dl9pf_RST38h: there's acarsd01:25
javispedroI mean
javispedrolayouts seem to match01:25
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RST38hd19pf: Yes, but the only tool that I found complete enough was WACARS01:25
javispedrohope that seriously does not meen 3-row keyboard01:26
RST38hI am afraid it does01:26
lardmanRST38h: so what is the encoding then? The page descibed what it does, but not how it's encoded01:27
RST38hlardman: google for ACARS and you should find a lot of links01:28
RST38hincluding acarsd d19pf mentioned01:28
RST38hok, sleep time.01:28
RST38hit is 2:28.01:28
javispedroso here we have nokia's dumbest action .. for now... 3-row keyboard :P01:29
javispedrooh, well.01:29
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* Mek found it quite usable...01:30
lardmanRST38h: if you can put together a doc describing exactly what it is (the encoding) I'd be happy to try to write some code for you01:30
lardmanrather than me trawling the interweb looking for stuff I don't know much about01:31
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lardmanhmm, interesting:
lardmananyone got a link to the FCC docs?01:33
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javispedrolardman, click on the layout picture and it'll take you to the docs01:34
JoeBrainYearr when you click on "Read More" also01:34
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lardmanah, too easy :). Thanks01:35
VDVsxor read the back log :P01:35
VDVsxsummarized info ;)01:35
lardmanok, so I'm just a little slow; it's Friday evening after all! :)01:38
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javispedrodon't worry, but be ready for nearly a thousand topics talking about the same thing in tmo ;)01:39
lardmanI didn't see much in there to talk about tbh01:39
javispedrotoo early yet01:39
lardmannothing new anyway, will have to wait for the confidentiality period to elaspe01:39
lardmanelapse even01:39
VDVsx"where is the dpad ?" "where is the stylus and kickstand ?" :P01:40
javispedro"what about the 3-row keyboard?"01:40
javispedro"and the gps?"01:40
lardmanwas any of that in there?!01:40
* lardman is shocked to see the council has replied to his email about potholes01:41
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qwerty12_N810"We got your e-mail. We won't be doing nothin' about it. KTHXBYE"01:42
VDVsxno new thread yet ?01:42
VDVsxah, there's one, alright :P01:42
lardmanqwerty12_N810: close, something like "thanks for the email, it's been logged, but it might take up to a month for anyone to look at the road; bye!"01:43
javispedroso now Transportation is too under the Maemo( Council? :D01:44
lardmanno, I just worry about bending my wheels driving to work01:45
lardmanI should probably walk01:45
qwerty12_N810Get hydraulics and bounce over the holes01:45
lardmantank? :)))01:45
lardmanthat'll learn 'em01:46
* javispedro is still battling with gdb01:46
javispedrodoes anyone know for a way to just list the damn 10 $pc values of execution01:46
javispedroprevious to the crash01:46
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lardmanno idea, gdb isn't very well supported on ARM so I don't tend to bother01:47
javispedrocause the stack is pretty funny: 0x202020200x202020200x202020200x2e20202001:47
lardmanyeah, it doesn't deal very well with some of the GCC optimisations iirc01:48
lardmangets confused01:48
javispedroi'm at -O0 now01:48
javispedrobut yeah, it sucks.01:49
javispedrovalgrind not being in arm also adds to the injury01:49
lardmanwould be a useful GSoC project now I think of it, improving support, etc.01:49
lardmanprintf all the way ;)01:49
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javispedroprintf is what I normally use, but when the codebase is 3MiB and I have basically _no idea_ what's going on, it sucks01:50
lardmanyeah tell me about it, that's DSP debugging for you using DSP Gateway ;)01:50
javispedrolol true :)01:51
lardmannone of the fancy hooks the Ti gateway offers :)01:51
javispedrogood luck01:51
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lardmanI live in hope that the omap3 debugging tools will be friendlier than printf01:51
lardmanAnyway, time to watch the cricket01:51
lcukholy crap01:51
lardmannight all, see you on the morrow :)01:52
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lcuklardman, simple particle field.  draw a sketch and have each particle adjust its position based on how far from points along the stroke it is01:52
lcukmake a circle and they all floaw around it01:52
javispedrotoo late :)01:52
lcukthis is fuckin wicked01:52
lcukits completely freeform affine transformations01:53
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lcukit acts like a lorenz attractor :)02:05
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javispedroaha, a total of 971 print statements. gnu sed is truly magic :)02:10
qwerty12_N810Dare you to do the same by hand next time :P02:11
GeneralAntillesOuch, brontide aint comin' back.02:12
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javispedroand beat me senseless if the fr*ing bug was "push {r0, lr}" but "pop {lr}" only02:16
javispedroit was.02:17
woglindejavis hm?02:22
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qwerty12_N810Heh, seeing "#ifdef __HAIKU__" in Transmission source code brought back memories of BeOS02:27
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nwidgeranyone get google street working in maemo mapper?02:42
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* GeneralAntilles worries about what T-Mobile USA is likely to do to Maemo.03:00
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ideamonkI followed till the end, now I'm getting these after the scratchbox installation - where did I go wrong ?06:05
ideamonkanyone there ?06:08
ukkiis that with jaunty?06:09
ideamonkukki, yeah !06:10
ideamonkjaunty not supported ?06:10
ukkiit is, you just need to set few sysctls06:11
ukkijust a sec06:11
ukkitry adding thes to your /etc/sysctl.conf06:12
ukkiabi.vsyscall32 = 006:12
ukkivm.mmap_min_addr = 409606:12
ukkithen run sysctl -p06:12
ideamonkukki, Yeah! it worked06:14
ideamonkthanks :)06:14
ukkiyou may want to put that sysctl -p to your rc.local, i think ubuntu overrides those settings in its rc-scripts06:15
ideamonkyeah, done that06:17
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ideamonki was following and have reached to, upon giving "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-runtime" i get the following error -- /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set. How do I set that variable ?07:08
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ideamonki was following and have reached to, upon giving "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-runtime" i get the following error -- /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set. How do I set that variable ?08:19
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: it does say 'tilt position'09:01
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Stskeepsalso, '#define MCE_ORIENTATION_ON_STAND"on_stand"09:02
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d34dm4nguys which linux are you all using for maemo ddevelopment ?09:06
d34dm4nI've heard that it runs only on Debian09:06
Stskeepsi use ubuntu personally09:07
d34dm4n9.04 ?09:07
d34dm4nand has anyone tried setting up maemo on opensuse ?09:08
Stskeepsthere's installation guides09:10
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JaffaMorning all10:13
Stskeepsmorning Jaffa10:13
StskeepsFCC filing morning :)10:13
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JaffaI pasted the linhk last night10:18
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RST38hEric Schmidt has been paid in Apple products for serving on Apple board =)10:28
RST38hThe ultimate nut =)10:28
slonopotamusStskeeps, hi. how was that gstreamer closed plugin named?10:28
Stskeepsslonopotamus: hantro, but it's not important10:28
Stskeepsi think it's ARM codec only10:28
slonopotamusStskeeps, google buys on210:29
Stskeepsyeah i know10:29
slonopotamusso we can try asking for it from google :)10:30
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RST38hwhy would you need an on2 codec?10:32
Stskeepshantro does h264 codecs10:32
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RST38hShit, I am tired of this :(11:36
Stskeepswhich, the RX-51? :P11:36
RST38hEvery time these idiots upgrade DC++ client, even by a tertiary version number, it "forgets" about Cyrillic support11:36
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* pupnik_ rocks out to Pixies - Velouria11:45
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RST38hahahahaha! found it!!!!11:54
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woglinderst found what?11:59
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RST38hwoglinde: found what was wrong12:01
RST38hsome windows update reset default language support in windows settings12:01
woglindepoor windows and localization12:02
Stskeepshmm, i found test report 2 and HAC rf in the rx-51 stuff12:03
Stskeepswasn't there before12:03
RST38hwell, it actually works when set up properly12:03
RST38hLinux does not12:03
woglindelinux works the same12:03
RST38hwhat is HAC?12:03
woglindeif you set up it right12:03
woglindehi stskeep12:03
woglinderst sure12:03
RST38hThis has been discussed before12:03
thuxot wonder is there place to file symbian bugs think i found one related to screen saver timeout and back light off12:04
RST38hBasically, if I do not set locale, a lot of programs will not support cyrillics, and if I set up locale, the system starts printing dates in Russian12:04
woglindewhats the problem with dates in russian?12:05
RST38hAnd there is apparently no way to set it properly (i.e. system uses US or UK locale but apps assume cyrillics)12:05
woglindeset the locale for date to something else12:05
RST38hwoglinde: Look ugly, fonts are somewhat out of alignment12:05
RST38hsts: =)12:05
Stskeepsglance at the "available date"12:05
woglindethen use another font12:05
RST38hwoglinde: thank you but I would rather just see dates in english12:06
Stskeeps11/08/2009 internal + external photos available12:06
woglinderst set LC_TIME12:06
Stskeepswait.. is the MM/DD/YY or DD/MM/YY? :P12:06
woglindemy son wnats to drive bycicle12:06
woglindetill later12:06
Stskeepsoh god damnit, not a november release..12:07
* qwerty12_N810 is waiting for the Harmattan release12:07
RST38hwoglinde: does not work =(12:07
RST38hdunno why, can only conclude that locale support is broken12:07
RST38hqwerty: I suggest a new SPENT_ON_HARMATTAN tag =)12:08
RST38hqwerty: As in "not buying fremantle device, will spend on harmattan"12:08
Stskeepswhen was N800 released again?12:08
Stskeeps1 december?12:08
qwerty12_N810RST38h: That pretty much sums what I'll be doing :)12:09
RST38h11/08/09 is when confidentiality expires12:10
Stskeepsso we have an upper bound for announcement12:10
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Stskeepstime to place bets!12:10
VDVsxbets... :)12:11
VDVsxmorning all :)12:11
RST38hGAN is right, if it is AFTER the summit, a lot of people will be majorly pissed12:11
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: I'd assume that you should get included in a device programme, if there is one.12:12
JaffaMight be the next council which decides, which is worrying if someone like penguinbait gets elected.12:13
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* Jaffa can't imagine him being quite as thorough in things like meeting minutes, and agile methodologies IYSWIM12:14
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: I've never programmed anything; just did shit ports of programs :)12:14
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: Device programmes aren't just for programmers ;-p12:14
ukkiqwerty12_N810: that is getting old12:14
ukkiqwerty12_N810: you if anyone should get it12:15
JaffaAnyone who enriches the community12:15
RST38hJust write something on your own already so that you no longer can claim the above12:15
JaffaPatching HAM; Helping other packagers on tmo; active in the community12:16
JaffaIt's a no brainer, TBH12:16
Stskeepsdevice programmes usually do require a bit of payment though doesn't it?12:16
JaffaHistorically $99 or 69eur IIRC12:17
Stskeepsnot bad12:17
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RST38hnot $99. No idea about euros.12:18
JaffaLast one was 99eur and local equivs.
JaffaWhich was 69gbp12:20
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: You're #6 on karma. I think that entitles you to a device discount (if there is a programme for the RX-51)12:21
Jaffa903 for products. Blimey, what're you down as the (co-)author of?!12:22
qwerty12_N810Can't even remember fully now :/12:23
qwerty12_N810(Old site did make it a little easier by having a list :))12:25
JaffaIndeed :(12:26
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javispedro(checked the logs)13:00
javispedroStskeeps, cool (the kickstand thing). Hope it indicates something.13:00
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javispedro~seen ideamonk13:01
infobotideamonk is currently on #maemo (23m 34s), last said: 'mistype'.13:01
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javispedroah, ideamonk, did you get sbox working?13:01
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javispedromorning lardman13:02
ideamonkjavispedro, i could.nt get apt-get working inside sbox13:02
ideamonkjavispedro, im planning to get ubuntu 32bit and end up all the hassles in 40 minutes :)13:02
javispedroi doubt this is related to amd6413:02
javispedroin facted I wanted you to test something...13:03
ideamonkjavispedro, im trying again13:03
javispedroas root, do  sysctl abi.vsyscall32=213:04
javispedro(notice it's 0 instead of 2)13:04
javispedro*(notice it's 2 instead of 0)13:04
ideamonkhmm 1 sec13:04
javispedrothen try to launch scratchbox and see what happens13:04
ideamonkhmm same thing..13:05
javispedrosame thing means it launches OK?13:05
javispedrono rtld assertion failure?13:05
javispedrogood, thanks13:05
ideamonkWelcome to Scratchbox, the cross-compilation toolkit!13:05
ideamonkUse 'sb-menu' to change your compilation target.13:05
ideamonkSee /scratchbox/doc/ for documentation.13:05
ideamonkbut man im stuck at
ideamonkSTEP 613:06
javispedroyou can leave vsyscall32 set to 2, should result in better performance than leaving it to 013:06
ideamonkapt-get isn't wroking13:06
ideamonk[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > apt-get update13:06
ideamonkError loading /usr/bin/apt-get13:06
ideamonkthats all i get13:06
javispedrotry gcc -v?13:07
javispedro(don't paste the full output, just check it if does not say "Error loading")13:07
ideamonkReading specs from /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486/gcc.specs13:07
ideamonkrename spec cpp to old_cpp13:07
ideamonkrename spec cc1 to old_cc113:07
ideamonkrename spec cc1plus to old_cc1plus13:07
ideamonkrename spec link to old_link13:07
ideamonkTarget: i486-pc-linux-gnu13:07
ideamonkConfigured with: /home/jhakala/cs2007q3+sb2/build2/src/gcc-4.2/configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=i486-pc-linux-gnu --enable-threads --disable-libmudflap --disable-libssp --disable-libgomp --disable-libstdcxx-pch --with-gnu-as --with-gnu-ld --enable-languages=c,c++ --enable-shared --enable-symvers=gnu --enable-__cxa_atexit --disable-nls --prefix=/opt/maemo --with-sysroot=/opt/maemo/i486-pc-linux-gnu/libc --with-build13:07
javispedrotoo late :)13:07
ideamonk-sysroot=/home/jhakala/cs2007q3+sb2/build2/install/i486-pc-linux-gnu/libc --with-build-time-tools=/home/jhakala/cs2007q3+sb2/build2/install/i486-pc-linux-gnu/bin13:07
ideamonkThread model: posix13:08
ideamonkgcc version 4.2.113:08
ideamonklol no error!13:08
ideamonkyeah too late :)13:08
javispedrosb-conf show --devkits?13:09
ideamonkjavispedro, im trying with sb-menu again maybe i missed something, which CPU-transparency method to use /13:09
javispedroprobably not since you're in X86 mode, there should be not CPU-transparency method involved13:09
javispedroideamonk, try "sb-conf show"13:09
ideamonkCompiler: cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i48613:10
ideamonkDevkits: cputransp13:10
ideamonkCPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-i386-0.8.2-sb213:10
ideamonkhmm i guess i've got cputrans enables13:10
javispedroyes :)13:10
javispedroand not all devkits installed/selected13:10
javispedroon my installation devkits are "perl debian-etch doctools svn git" and no cputransp.13:11
ideamonkokay so shall i go through sb-menu and select them13:11
ideamonkyeah i guess i missed selecting them13:11
javispedroand select "none" as cputransp if asked13:11
ideamonkon ubuntu should one select debian-* ?13:11
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javispedrobtw ideamonk, did the automated sdk installation fail?13:12
ideamonkjavispedro, hmm didn't try this time though, last time i tried it failed for amd6413:13
ukkitry running it with setarch13:15
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ideamonkjavispedro,  yess i selected all, and now apt-get works...13:16
ideamonkwoohoo i can proceed from step 6 now :)13:16
javispedroremember to prefix with "fakeroot"13:16
ideamonkyeah :)13:16
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RST38hHo ho ho13:26
lcukand how much are they13:26
RST38hlcuk: In VMS.13:26
RST38hlcuk: Free.13:26
* Stskeeps ponders to start a betting pool on which week the RX-51 gets announced13:26
VDVsxStskeeps, there's one already, kind of13:27
VDVsxis just a thread, no pool :P13:27
RST38hAnd if you want to be different, wait for RX-71!13:27
StskeepsRST38h: couldn't find RX-71 in FCC :P13:28
VDVsxmust better13:28
* RST38h ponders on what the world has come to due to consumerism13:28
StskeepsVDVsx: well we have an upper limit on when FCC will show the pictures13:28
RST38hYes, there is only one way, one way...13:28
RST38hThe Tentacled One should harvest all the humans.13:28
VDVsxStskeeps, they(nokia) probably can request a extension on the conf time13:29
Stskeepsmm, probably13:29
RST38hMost definitely13:29
aolStskeeps: easy.... nokia world13:29
VDVsxanyway, I'm betting for Sep 213:29
RST38hIn fact, they do not even have to release it. Just because they sent it to FCC for approval does not mean the actual product gets released.13:30
VDVsxRST38h, true, happened in the past13:30
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Stskeepsmy bet is sep 2, and two handsets this year13:31
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aoltwo ? huh13:32
Stskeepsthe RX-51 and RX-7113:32
woglindehm rx-7113:32
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aolany guesses how 71 will be different ?13:32
lcukneural interface13:33
Stskeepsand then a wider strategy with more devices next year, moving away from symbian13:33
* qwerty12_N810 hopes that "Maemo Signed" will not be a reality due to network operators, etc. I like being able to install whatever :)13:34
javispedro"Maemo Signed"????13:35
javispedrothat's the dumbest decision nokia has ever made... for now.13:35
VDVsxnah, symbian also has big plans, I think they will co-exist, and share a lot of things between them13:35
aolI'm pretty sure they will13:35
qwerty12_N810"Symbian Signed" was the most stupidest shit I ever saw, it took me fkn ages to find a way to sign up13:35
aolbut symbian will be for the midrange phones13:35
javispedroVDVsx, agree. seeing the symbian roadmap I believe it's not going to disappear anytime soon.13:35
lcukqt will extend the utility of symbian for a while yet13:36
lcukeven if not directly13:36
lcukqwerty12_N810, wheres the maemo signed thingy13:37
lcukis it mentioned in the fcc stuff or elsewhere13:37
javispedroI think it's fortunately not :)13:38
qwerty12_N810No, it doesn't exist, hence the quotation marks13:38
VDVsxhell no, please please :P13:38
VDVsxmaemo signed == bye bye community :)13:39
javispedroI'm already worried about what the whole carrier thingie will mean13:40
aolmy guess is that they would do iphone like app distribution13:40
aoland for the nerds you could turn on some feature to install what ever13:40
javispedroimagine locked, special firmware versions for each carrier.13:40
qwerty12_N810Didn't Diablo already have one for some Singapore carrier?13:41
VDVsxspecial carrier firware's are a PITA13:41
qwerty12_N810Singtel, that's the one13:41
VDVsxyou've to wait and wait.... and wait for the firmware updates :(13:42
javispedroFWIW, tmo thread about the singtel firmware:
* qwerty12_N810 always debrands his phones13:42
* javispedro will have to start doing it if he's not allower to buy free13:42
* lcuk takes a branding iron down to london13:42
VDVsxfunny, didn't know that pearl:)13:42
* javispedro 's current siemens phone was bought liberated and he's very happy, probably the best cell-related decision he ever made.13:44
* aol never buys his phones with contract13:44
lardmanI hate Makefiles13:44
rkirti                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                /join #iitm-linux13:45
rkirti                                                                         /13:45
javispedrocrappy Movistar/Telefonica firmware tended to replace some of my themes' bitmaps with movistar logos and the useful screensaver clock with the useless rotating movistar logo screensaver13:45
Stskeepsit'll be interesting to see how SIM lock will be done13:45
* rkirti has a screwed up keyboard13:45
qwerty12_N810javispedro: Orange totally nuked the menu on my phone :(13:45
qwerty12_N810Telefonica... o2 here, which do the same as what you said13:46
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VDVsxjavispedro, same here, with the 3 major carriers :(13:46
javispedrocan't wait to see how they'll fsck Maemo13:47
VDVsxStskeeps, nokia has a lot of SIM lock technologies, but none is bulletproof right now13:48
qwerty12_N810~bitchslap libosso13:48
* infobot beats the sh*t out of libosso13:48
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rkirtilibosso itself is still bearable compared to the muali stuff doped in it13:49
Stskeepsanyone uses muali? :P13:51
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lardmanaargh, bloody Makefiles13:54
* lardman goes out in disgust13:54
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slonopotamuslardman, use cmake :P13:54
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VDVsxhumm, is it possible to use bluez in sbox ?14:06
Stskeepsdoubt it14:07
lardman|awayslonopotamus: is it better?14:07
Stskeepsthat's why i like the VM approach of mer, timeless got his bluetooth working in Mer but not his host PC ;)14:07
lardman|awayis for DSP module building, so strange options and filename extensions14:08
VDVsxStskeeps, ehehe14:09
Stskeepsseriously though.. if diablo exists at x86, they could easily have made it bootable :P14:10
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Stskeepsthat would have made a lot of people happy14:10
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t_s_ohmm, that fcc drawing suggests a device not much smaller then a N8*0, if its a 1:1 scale...14:29
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`0660_i wouldn't bet it on being on 1:1 scale :)14:35
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wazd_n800heya everyone14:40
VDVsxhello wazd_n800 :)14:41
ideamonkanyone coming for ilug bangalore meet this evening ?14:41
qwerty12_N810Sure, but only if you pay for my flight14:42
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ideamonkqwerty12_N810, ah :) maybe some other time, was looking for any maemo devs to get hold of14:42
ideamonkbye guys14:42
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RST38hmoo wazd14:46
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Zhilin_n800new tablet seen at FCC?)14:47
Zhilin_n800how's it?)14:48
Zhilin_n800worth seeing?)14:48
RST38hif you like peering at FCC labels and device outlines, then yes14:49
RST38hthe outline does look similar to N810 in many ways14:49
RST38hAnd yes, there is a direct mention in the testing docs that you are supposed to hold it to your ear.14:50
Zhilin_n800oh, I thought there will be photos or something :)14:50
RST38hEverything closed until November 8 200914:50
Zhilin_n800hmm, I think untill october 9 :)14:51
RST38hit said 11/x/x14:51
Zhilin_n800RST38h, I'm pretty sure they will show it at the summit :)14:52
VDVsxZhilin_n800, nokia world in Sep :)14:53
Zhilin_n800VDVsx, maybe :)14:53
RST38hwazd: If no, there is weed in Amsterdam.14:53
VDVsxI bet on that :P14:53
VDVsxSep 2 :)14:53
Zhilin_n800VDVsx, Fremantle can be unfinished in sep 214:54
qwerty12_N810"Free zut with every purchase of Nokia's new phone"14:54
VDVsxZhilin_n800, yup, but they can show it anyway, like they did with the n9714:55
t_s_ohmm, 90 days...14:55
t_s_othat lands it in october, if its counted from the day the other documents are made public. or september if from when it was submitted...14:56
woglindeI bet dec for christmas presents14:57
Zhilin_n800I like how they call it "superphone" :)14:57
qwerty12_N810I wouldn't take that too closely; the N95 was a "mini-computer" or someshit...14:57
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, very advanced for his time, at least :)14:58
t_s_ooh crap, shark in the html5 waters...14:58
Zhilin_n800qwerty12_N810, mini-computer was nokia's branding14:58
Zhilin_n800qwerty12_N810, superphone - mass media's :)14:59
RST38hqwerty: N97 is also a mini computer btw14:59
RST38hqwerty: And BOTH N95 and N97 were the "first super computer" :)14:59
* RST38h suspects that the whole idea of "choosing an audience" and then advertising for this audience is flowed15:01
t_s_oi would say that pda/phone makes computers even more personal...15:02
RST38hIt is like you choose a direction and walk in that direction, not minding the light poles, other people, traffic, and manholes15:02
RST38hBut that is exactly what Nokia is doing by targeting its N-series to "hip city dwellers" whatever these animals are15:02
Zhilin_n800but at least FCC appearance is a good sign, cause something is really going on :)15:05
RST38halso notice there is a stylus included15:05
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Zhilin_n800RST38h, oh, nice :) They made it for lcuk :D15:06
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RST38hyes, he can store his finger there =)15:07
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wazd_n800RST38h, eeew :)15:07
RST38hpeople already lament the lack of led15:08
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wazd_n800RST38h, who needs led :)15:09
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RST38hI like LEDs! The replace shiny iPhone bodies as my fetish object!15:10
wazd_n800RST38h, is there any kb shown?15:10
RST38hno side view15:12
* qwerty12_N810 wonders who'll be the first to write the standard "Vibration" app...15:12
lcuk:D yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy stylusa15:12
RST38hqwerty: Who do you think we all are? iPhone users?15:12
lcuki wonder how well particle systems will work on this device.  im looking forward to more horsepower15:13
RST38hhow many particles are you looking at?=)15:13
lcuki might even have enough to run c++ :D15:13
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Hey, it's a phone after all, I've seen Java, Symbian apps, etc. for this purpose... :P15:13
lcukwell in original liqbase there are 2000 stars15:14
lcukbut they arent interacting particles15:14
lcuki couldnt get them working with more than about 100 last time i tried15:14
RST38hqwerty: Yes, but you need a large enough userbase for this kind of an app15:14
wazd_n800lcuk: cool useless effects ftw =)15:14
RST38hqwerty: Difficult to get outside of iPhone market!15:14
lcukwazd_n800, not just useless15:15
RST38hlcuk: I am pretty sure you can simulate a dozen or so with n810 without breaking a sweat15:15
lcukRST38h, and original liqbase had "particles" for the physics view15:15
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wazd_n800k, I've reached my station, gotta ride home :)15:15
lcukit happily allowed interaction of a few tiles15:15
lcukRST38h, it handled a few more than a dozen15:16
lcukbut they were tiles rather than particles15:16
wazd_n800cya in 30 mins15:16
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woglindebye wazd15:16
RST38hlcuk: even better!15:16
lcukyeah - it managed to handle what i wanted it for back then (the resizing sketches thing15:17
lcuki want to do hot or not kind of ratings with what ive drawn15:17
lcukmove skketches to left/cold side or to right/hot side15:17
lcukwith a funky background15:17
lcuksave the location and i get a rating15:17
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lcuklol woglinde15:22
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wazd_n800I'm back)15:52
wazd_n800Just saw FCC pic)15:52
wazd_n800so much buttons'n'switches'n'holes'n'ports on the sides)15:53
lcukwazd_n800, have you seen the ninja shuriken holster?15:55
wazd_n800lcuk, nope)15:55
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wazd_n800and looks like there is a kickstand, thank god)15:59
RST38hno kickstand16:00
RST38hGAN already lamented that16:00
StskeepsRST38h: mce-dev claims "on stand"16:00
wazd_n800RST38h, what's on the right edge then?16:00
RST38hlemme check again16:01
wazd_n800RST38h, looks like a kickstand for me16:01
Stskeepsand off stand16:01
RST38hwazd: I see nothing at the right edge16:01
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wazd_n800RST38h, wait, my display needs a warm up :D16:02
wazd_n800RST38h, I'll show i16:03
wazd_n800RST38h, or maybe I'm mistaken16:04
lcukJaffa, ping16:05
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woglindeah its done16:17
RST38hAnyone remembers x86 branch hint instructions?16:18
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woglindehm external video connector didnt make it in16:20
woglindethats a pity16:20
RST38hyou do not know yet16:20
RST38hIt may be hidden at the third pin in the audio jack socket16:21
woglindeits not mentioned in the specs16:21
woglindehaha maybee you can replace the platine with the one from
woglindethat would be cool16:22
glasswoglinde: could use usb monitors though?16:22
woglindeglass connecting to beamers?16:22
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glasswoglinde: i'm speaking too fast, reading now .. :p16:23
glasswoglinde: it has usb ports, i read16:23
glasswoglinde: theres usb video connectors, which are pretty cheap16:23
glasswoglinde: iirc linux drivers for them too..16:24
woglindeglass do you have a link=16:24
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glasswoglinde: afaik they're all pretty much based on the same chip16:26
glasswoglinde: linux drivers state I'm not sure16:27
woglindehm 60$16:27
Stskeepssisusb? :P16:27
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glassStskeeps: yeah probably16:27
glasskinda nice that sis has found an use for their crappy chips :p16:28
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woglindehm seems my update of the ti_gstreamer stuff in oe makes sin16:29
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RST38hmoo glass16:55
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RST38hglass: You do not know how I can use branch hints in MASM? (x86 version)16:56
glassRST38h: sorry. I suck in x86 asm16:58
glassRST38h: only thin i can do is switch videomode and query bios provided stuff16:58
glassRST38h: dos stuff..16:59
glassi haven't done assembly since then16:59
glassexcept hitachi16:59
glassRST38h: but out of curiosity.. what you're doing?17:00
RST38hglass: binary translator17:00
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Owner_hi chan17:06
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kpelhi Erhenius17:06
Erheniusanyone who can help a chap with his smart q717:07
Stskeepsyou're probably better off in #mer17:07
kpeli don't even know what a q7  is17:07
Erheniuslol a nice cheap *ss tablet17:08
kpelic. linux based?17:09
Erheniuswith a very flakey ubuntu on it17:10
kpelthat's always the problem with any linux device.17:10
Erheniusyeah its as flakey as my uncles dandroughf17:11
kpelthe manufacturers don't pay enough attention to software quality, availability and upgradability.17:11
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Erheniusmer is quit snappy but a bit of a haslw17:11
kpellet's hope the next nokia tablet will be better and more reasonably priced. i'm getting tired of my N800 :)17:13
Erheniusmaw just bought this unit17:14
Erheniusso no gadgets for me for a while17:14
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RST38hkpel: Yes, continue hoping17:27
RST38hWhile we will all be having fun watching you wait =)17:27
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kpelRST38h: if it is such fun watching me hoping i'll get myself a mirror :)17:28
kpeli know, it's never going to happen. just daydreaming17:29
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StskeepsRST38h: you do -not- want to get a russian rx-5117:39
RST38hSts: Why?17:40
Stskeeps2 arrow buttons vs 417:40
RST38hSts: The only difference in N810 was a bit different keyboard17:40
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RST38hAh that17:40
Stskeepsi thought that was only scandinavian but seems not17:40
RST38hBut we are not getting arrow buttons, are we? :)17:40
Stskeepsgo look at the xkb-data file..17:40
RST38hSts: Ohreally???17:41
RST38hWell maybe it is for the later models17:41
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Stskeepsxkbdata-0.8/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 :P17:41
RST38hSts: But you are not that far off. Do you know what happened with N97? :)17:42
wazdRST38h: don't tell him :)17:42
RST38hwazd: He may enjoy the shared misery =)17:42
Stskeepsdanish rx-51's are about as fucked17:42
RST38hwazd: Him having to deal with danish rx-51 ;)17:42
wazdStskeeps: haha, lawlz :)17:43
RST38hSts: Anyways, Cyrillic keyboards have "B" on the "," key17:43
wazdStskeeps: welcome to the club :D17:43
RST38hSts: Nokia has been so busy cutting down the number of keys that they killed the "," key, so on N97 you can only enter cyrillic "B" with a SHIFT key17:43
RST38hSts: And yes, it occurs about as frequent as English "B" in texts :)17:44
wazdStskeeps: and B is really popular letter, not like Û or Ú :D17:44
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Stskeepsthere's always key remapping is what i keep telling myself.17:44
RST38hSts: Not on N97 of course17:44
RST38hSts: And not if you are simply lacking keys17:45
Stskeepssure, but i can quickly find things i can rearrange :P17:45
Stskeepslike, a euro sign17:45
Stskeepsor swedish characters noone uses17:46
kpelso the only solution is one of those smal and expensive bluetooth qwerty keyboards?17:46
* RST38h is getting a US tablet anyway17:46
kpelsmall rather17:46
RST38hEspecially is Nokia enrolls me into that discount program17:46
StskeepsRST38h: i might want one with warranty personally17:46
Stskeepsbut we'll see17:46
RST38hSts: US tablets have warranties17:47
RST38hSts: Besides, isn't nokia giving worldwide warranties?17:47
RST38hOh well17:47
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RST38h13.8 VUPS hehe17:49
RST38hLet us see if I can hit 15 VUPS...17:50
jaskathats over 2x my vax :(17:50
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RST38hjaska: the goal is to make it 5x your vax :)17:51
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jaska38 vups thatd be... altho my vax can be carried with one hand too :)17:54
RST38hjaska: Mine too (1.2kg)17:55
jaskamaybe 20kg or so this one17:55
RST38hActually (being serious) you can get a 5-7kg MicroVAX the size of a lunch box17:55
RST38hWe had those back at the university, running Ultrix17:56
jaskayeah, mines a vaxstation 3100m76 spx, dont think it weighs 20kg.. but not much anyway :)17:58
wazdRST38h: I just got an idea17:58
wazdRST38h: RX-51 is that slider phone that Eldar has told us about17:58
RST38hwazd: Well, it has to be either 51 or 7117:59
RST38hwazd: But he said it was real small and I do not see that footprint as real small17:59
RST38hjaska: Got a SUN IPX as well? :)17:59
StskeepsRST38h: developer units felt light and "tiny" but not when using it17:59
RST38hOr maybe SUN4/SUN5?17:59
wazdRST38h: FCC documents saying that it has "numpad slider" and it's portrait oriented in that drawing :)18:00
Stskeepsas in, display wise / use18:00
RST38hwazd: Oh holy fuck18:00
RST38hwazd: If it has got a numpad slider, it won't have the keyboard, right?18:00
jaskahmm.. ipx, yes18:00
wazdRST38h: dunno :)18:00
* RST38h gets respect for jaska18:00
jaska2 ipx, 2 classic, 1 lx18:01
RST38hAn original NeXT pizza box, and you are all set =)18:01
RST38hCubes are nontypical18:01
wazdRST38h: you can easily calculate the size of the device using FCC mark18:01
jaskathat i lack :(18:01
wazdit's the same on every device18:01
RST38hwazd: You have done it already, right? =)18:01
wazdjust open some other already released device and compare :)18:01
RST38hjaska: I knew a girl who had one (with display of course) at her coffee table. Made a perfect conversation item.18:02
wazdRST38h: I don't know how to search for devices on their site :D18:02
RST38hjaska: Better than any magazine18:02
RST38hwazd: No problemo, a moment18:02
wazdRST38h: wait, I'll do it myself :)18:02
wazdRST38h: no, I can't :D18:03
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RST38hwazd: I had a link. Lemme locate it...18:03
wazdBL-5J - 1320 Mah18:06
wazdsame as 5800 has18:07
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wazdlol :)18:09
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wazdRST38h: no I guess it's the tablet :)18:13
RST38hwhy the numeric dialpad then?18:13
wazdRST38h: cause lock slider on the bottom is too ridiculous :)18:13
wazdRST38h: dunno, i need to check again, maybe it's not numpad, but keypad18:14
RST38hthat's a lot of difference though18:14
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wazdRST38h: yep18:14
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wazdRST38h: I bet my mockup is not so far from the real device :)18:15
RST38hwazd: you are in serious danger from black helicopters from Oulu then18:15
wazdRST38h: maybe I should redraw it into something more realistic and send to engadget hahaha :)18:17
RST38hmake it a photo!18:18
wazdRST38h: damn, why am I not a 3D guru, I could make the world sweat every time I wake up :)18:18
RST38hOr just create endless renderings of fairy castles, dragons, medieval hardware, naked fairies, and unicorns18:19
wazdRST38h: I should lock myself in the closet and learn some 3DS at last18:19
RST38hSo, be careful what you wish for =)18:19
RST38hwazd: Funny thing is, I tried that (when I still had an Amiga) and found it more boring than assembly programming =)18:20
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glassi've been freshening up my modelling skills18:25
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glassthe mesh editor in moray is pretty good18:26
wazdglass: we can collaborate and make epic fake :)18:26
glasswazd: yeah. i've been trying out the options in povray too18:27
glasswazd: much less time consuming now :DD18:27
wazdglass: I have a pretty powerful hardware, you can send me images to render :)18:28
wazdglass: 4Gb of ram, 9800Gt 1Gb, 4400 X218:28
wazdglass: not the top gear but it's fast :)18:29
glasswazd: nice. i got asus rog laptop18:29
glassnice: 2.5ghz or so dualcore, 4gb, 9700 nvidia18:29
glasswazd: but what i'd need would be development box18:30
wazdglass: nice, but I'ts more tabletop :D18:30
wazdglass: you'll break your legs with it :D18:30
glassgot a 25" monitor18:30
glasswazd: well, work let me chose my laptop, i needed a fast desktop18:31
glasswould be really handy for lan parties too18:31
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wazdglass: yep18:32
glassit came with a backpack too18:32
wazdglass: and with servant to carry :)18:32
glass15.4" and hdmi out18:32
glassi can't type on tiny laptops anyways :D18:33
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wazdglass: well, tiny or not, mostly laps have same kbs18:33
glasswazd: i hate most "corporate" laptop layouts too18:33
glasswazd: this is a 'gaming' laptop :D18:33
glassso the kb is pretty standard18:33
wazdglass: yep18:34
glassnot curved, got a numpad18:34
glasscan play nethack18:34
wazdglass: that's the main advantage :D18:34
glasswell who uses numpad for anything else. really?18:34
wazdglass: I bind commands in AA3 on numpad keys :)18:34
RST38hglass: Angband!18:35
RST38hZAngband even, as it is more cruel18:35
glassRST38h: is it more cruel than nethack?18:36
glassi don't know if i want that18:36
RST38hOh yes you want it18:36
RST38hI mean, you are not going to skip your chance to kill Finnish prime minister, running around you and screaming "let us all be friends"?18:37
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glassRST38h: maybe if we had a cooler pm18:37
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glassRST38h: the current one is going out and has totally failed his image anyways18:37
RST38hHe will be represented with an ASCII character, do not be afraid18:37
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RST38hBesides, last time it was Marti Ahtisaari, I think it is still him18:37
glassmartti ahtisaari was president18:38
glass /is18:38
glass the title stays18:38
RST38hSo, you get a bonus of kicking president's ass18:38
glasscurrent prime minister, vanhanen, got the job because the one before him was in a scandal18:38
RST38hAlso, there is Bull Gates, living in a castle filled with money18:38
RST38hOnce you collect the money, castle gets filled with Grid Bugs18:38
glassi don't think that bill would be that fun. like, that would be awesome18:39
glassa castle full of money18:39
RST38hWell, the idea is NOT to complete that quest, and go there for money again and again18:39
RST38hSo, the game is pretty close to reality =)18:39
GAN800glass, time to play with GI. ;)18:41
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glassbill hasn't done anything that imaginative in his life, so i'd give him high regards if he actually had a bouncy castle full of cash18:42
glasshe could beam out youtube videos to steve from there18:42
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glasswazd: if you need 3d models for tech demos.. i'm totally available for doing them18:47
glassor anyone18:47
wazdglass: thanks :)18:48
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RST38hGot a stupid question18:49
wazdglass: what do you use for modelling?18:49
RST38hIs there any way to find out the number of arguments in the va_list???18:49
glasswazd: moray, i can transfer them to "anything"18:52
glasswazd: i got some grasp of whats low poly and whats not too18:52
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javispedroRST38h, afaik there can't be a portable way to find out the number of arguments in bare C19:00
wazdglass: oh, nice :) Is it hard to model there for absolute beginner? :)19:02
glasswazd: absolutely not!19:03
glasswazd: though it's windows only. runs fine on vista, whatever, it used to be a dos program19:03
glasswazd: it has a great help file built in19:03
glasswazd: very engineering oriented19:03
qwerty12_N810Hmm, seen latest RX-51 post?19:04
qwerty12_N810There's supposed pics there. Looks legit IMO19:04
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glasswazd: windows version has opengl support too.. if you switch on aa from nvidia settings it looks pretty19:04
glasswazd: i haven't touched the animation/keyframing myself yet19:05
wazdqwerty12_N810: where? what? I'll kill you! :D19:05
javispedroI'll kill Nokia.19:05
javispedro3-row keyboard.19:05
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qwerty12_N810It's legit; there's a RX-51 sticker19:05
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qwerty12_N810Keyboard looks hot, but the buttons are on the small side :\19:06
wazdn95 like kickstand19:06
wazdwell, better than nothing19:06
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wazdqwerty12_N810: the screen is covered with opaque material I guess :)19:08
qwerty12_N810And that is not a space bar. Eurgh.19:08
lcukthis sounds like pictures convo - is there a link?19:09
qwerty12_N810I'm on a tablet with firefox open on my desktop so I can't copy and paste19:09
lcukfound em19:11
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javispedroRx-51 "prototype" says the box19:13
lcukshiny, do you think they intended to include the emei code along with the photos?19:14
qwerty12_N810Was they meant to be leaked in the first place? =)19:14
Stskeepsfuck yes, the good keys :>19:14
glassanything that sents out in boxes gets leaked19:14
lcuklol Stskeeps :D you mean "not the diamond keys everyone was pondering about a couple of months ago lol19:14
Stskeepsis that a SD card reader?19:15
Stskeepsor sim19:15
qwerty12_N810That'd be a SIM19:15
lcukneeds a sim for modem doesnt it19:16
javispedrothey're two sd-like readers on that photo?19:16
javispedroone is the sim, the other?19:16
Stskeepsi wonder if that's minisd or microsd19:16
javispedromust be microsd19:16
javispedrosmaller than a simcard lol :D19:16
glassmicrosd would make sense anyhow19:16
lcukyou are looking on the wrong scale - new sim cards are 6" and put old floppy disks to shame19:17
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javispedrodefinitely there is something in that picture that screams wrong scale19:17
lcukahhh my mistake - i had zoomed in ;)19:17
javispedromy brain doesn't seem to be able to size that :P19:18
glassjavispedro: the soft plastic of the box filler?19:18
glass"soft" erm..19:18
glassjavispedro: what i mean, it looks like it's zoomed in.. but thats just the way plastic like that looks19:18
lcukcan you find out when pictures were uploaded to tinypic19:20
Stskeepswhat on earth is that cover thing..19:20
lcukprotective sheet by the looks of it19:20
Stskeepsalso, a victory for fat fingers19:21
lcukprobably not transparent because people left the n810 ones on i believe and had low sensitivity19:21
wazd <- quick redraw :)19:22
javispedroheh, it has the phone green-red buttons after all19:22
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RST38hwazd: Ohmygod it is an iphone19:26
Stskeeps5mp .. good or bad?19:26
RST38hdoes not matter, it will suck anyway19:27
javispedroRST38h, my thoughs exactly. would better put all those megapixels in some other place19:27
Stskeepsalso, what's with the obscene amount of connectors in the back?19:27
wazdRST38h: well, it's good to capture something on the go19:27
Mekprobably for hardware debugging?19:27
Stskeepswell some is battery, some is serial, but 4? :P19:28
RST38hwazd: it's not, not where we live anyway19:28
wazdRST38h: you definitely won't take photographs of your wedding with this :D19:28
VDVsxStskeeps, jtag probably,19:28
RST38hwazd: have you seen how standard cell phone camera behaves in winter or in a room?19:28
wazdRST38h: nope)19:29
glassRST38h: nokias do ok in winter19:29
RST38hwazd: Now, in sunny California or Florida that would actually work19:29
glassRST38h: winter is very bright if theres snow. for couple of hours a day anyways19:29
RST38hwazd: In here you get a smeared bluish gray something19:29
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* Stskeeps ponders what stupid photographer takes pictures of the box..19:29
wazdStskeeps: Sd, sim, and battery, where's 4? :)19:29
RST38hglass: Ah, snow...In snow/sun the image just gets white :)19:30
Stskeepswazd: no, the dotted connectors19:30
RST38hglass: Ca'use not only it has low sensitivity but the dynamic range sucks19:30
javispedroheh. so no more internal/external sd. but internal/internal2 sd.19:30
Mekat least you don't have to remove the battery for the sd card :)19:30
glassRST38h: well i was counting as standard what n70 had years ago19:30
glassRST38h: in bright it's excellent19:30
RST38hglass: Weird you have not chosen N93 as a benchmark :)19:31
glasscrap.. i need to renew my flickr19:31
glassRST38h: n93 takes crappy photos, thats why19:31
RST38hglass: E70 absolutely sucks at photos. Same goes for 5800.19:31
Stskeepsjavispedro: at least you don't have to remove battery for it19:31
RST38hglass: Did not have chance to check other Nokias but not expecting anything new19:31
javispedrofortunately for me, I'm yet to switch the SD card once19:31
glassRST38h: there was some bullcrap with the image coding and such on n93.. iirc19:32
glassRST38h: n93 was a very short lived model19:32
RST38hglass: it was still the best camera nokia ever produced19:32
RST38hglass: N93i then19:32
glassRST38h: on paper yeah. but not on any awards :D19:32
glass93i was very shortlived too19:32
glassit has some perks19:33
glassvideo is good with it19:33
* Stskeeps wonders what user count talk.* will reach tonight19:33
wazdRST38h: they almost got enough buttons for russian layout btw :)19:33
Stskeeps210 atm  :P19:33
RST38hAnyways, not expecting anything good from the camera. Will just buy a Canon G11 or G10 and make myself at piece19:33
RST38hSts: Good time to troll? ;)19:34
wazdRST38h: By 5D, be a man :D19:34
glassRST38h: i got 1000+ pics on flickr with various camera phones :\    but as i'm expired it only shows last 20019:34
RST38hwazd: And carry it...where? =)19:34
wazdRST38h: G11 is not so small too :)19:34
glassRST38h: bright sun and short exposure time is best with n70 and such19:34
RST38hglass: A fanatic! =)19:34
RST38hwazd: G11 does not yet exist, G10 fits the pocket (just barely though)19:34
glassRST38h: well it was fun. i configured auto upload at one point :p19:34
RST38hWith automatic location by GPS? :)19:35
glassso everytime after a pic, it asked to upload19:35
VeggenI've got a Nikon D700. And a Nikon D200 for when I feel like travelling light ;)19:35
glassdidn't have gps :\19:35
glassalso gps brings battery problems19:35
glassand waiting for fix19:35
Veggen(my old one, didn't get around to sell it or anything yet)19:35
wazdVeggen: I've D70, it feels a bit heavy sometimes19:35
Veggenwazd: D70 is pretty light especially compared to D700, but also compared to D200.19:36
RST38hwazd: More concerned about "big" than "heavy"19:36
Veggen....I actually have an old D70 too. which I was gonna sell at one point, but she ended up buying a D200.19:37
RST38hwazd: So I guess even the upcoming 3/4 cameras are not for me...19:37
wazdanyway, I really wonder why they have hidden the screen on hte photos19:37
wazdRST38h: I saw a review of olimpus at - it's cool, but not pocketable19:37
RST38hwazd: exactly19:38
RST38hwazd: A had a Casio Exilim 750 for a while, until my family broke it19:38
RST38hwazd: As far as really small cameras go, the 750 was a life saver19:38
Luke-Jrthere's an idea19:38
Luke-JrI should port Linux to my digicam19:39
wazdRST38h: well, you can't pocket any device with changable optics :)19:39
RST38hAlas, the no longer produce good Exilims19:39
RST38hwazd: Olympus with the pancake lens is more or less pocketable19:39
RST38hwazd: What would you use the pancake for though? Lomography at $800? :)19:39
RST38hShit gentlemen could somebody help me with va_list? :(19:40
wazdRST38h: sure :)19:40
* wazd hates people that quotes posts with all photos and stuff :(19:41
Stskeepsat least i'm happy that i've found my next phone :)19:41
RST38hwazd: How about photoshopping one of those fcc documents to insert a reference to Android?19:41
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RST38hSts: Same here, although I am still suspecting a disappointment19:42
RST38hwazd: We can then post it to t.m.o and watch the show?19:42
StskeepsRST38h: there's a stand, the delicious keys we felt in cph, a good camera, 3g, so, i'm sold :P19:42
wazdRST38h: I have a really long photoshoping list, I think it will become old when I get to it :)19:42
StskeepsRST38h: if it is not minisd, i'm happy.19:43
RST38hStand? There was not last time =)19:43
wazdStskeeps: It has fracking 32Gb built in19:43
RST38hwazd: Ehehehe19:43
wazdRST38h: it has n95 like stand19:43
RST38hAh ok19:43
Stskeepswazd: i still need to do sd card switches once in a while19:43
wazdRST38h: where the camera is19:43
RST38hSts: If they do this crap to "B" again...19:43
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RST38hWazd: !19:44
StskeepsRST38h: go check the xkb-data19:44
Stskeeps^ shows stand quite clearly19:44
VDVsxyup like n8619:44
tank-manomg what is that19:45
VDVsxno dpad :( :( :( bad for gamers :P19:45
RST38hSts: what is it??? is it a new batch of photos???19:45
wazdThat bevel around the camera makes it look what I call with a good russian word "Motyga" :D19:45
wazdRST38h: check t.m.o :)19:45
StskeepsRST38h: err.. what rock are you hiding under?19:45
RST38hoh holy shit19:45
RST38hI have been working folks!19:45
wazdRST38h: "It's D&G, halo!" :D19:45
VDVsxStskeeps, the keyboard looks like the one in the cph proto ?19:46
* RST38h will light a candle in a church of Quim's choice for inclusion of the arrow keys19:46
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RST38hAlso not that the hideous silvery finish is almost gone. No more chipping.19:48
wazdRST38h: I've made a redraw accordinf to these photos19:48
RST38hwazd: You have to excuse sachin007 for quoting the whole thing, he was one of the most nervous t.m.o posters =)19:49
wazdRST38h: If I was on the Edge connection - he would be dead already :D19:50
RST38hwazd: You would still be waiting for those images to arrive though19:50
wazdhave to go to the bike ride, bbl19:50
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VDVsxmore pics..ahahahahahh19:56
VDVsxvideo out :P19:57
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javispedroah, that's cool19:57
javispedrooh, kaskus, the original source of the leak19:57
javispedrodidn't found my way in that site previously19:57
t_s_ohmm, i wonder if the io ports are above the stylus on the left side, as there seems to be something there thats yet to be identified, and it would be fitting to have a rubber cover about there19:58
javispedroInternal Memory 128 megabytes DDR manufactured by Samsung19:58
t_s_oerr, right side...19:58
javispedroW. T. F.?19:58
woglindethread is closed19:58
woglindethat was quick19:58
woglindeto not enforce the laywers20:00
javispedroI am reading the thread right now, just loaded page 320:01
woglindeseems you are lucky20:01
Stskeepswhat, a thread closed on talk.*?20:01
Luke-JrStskeeps: that link isn't talk.*20:02
t_s_osaved the photos from page one of that thread20:02
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javispedrowhere's the video?=20:02
Luke-Jrso conclusion is RX-51 sucks20:02
javispedroi've still access to the whole thread20:02
VDVsxme too, again :)20:03
javispedrosee? it was just slashdotted20:03
VDVsxbtw, what language is that ?20:03
StskeepsLuke-Jr: no, it's actually delicious20:05
javispedroso la la20:05
* qwerty12_N810 likes it (with Harmattan) but I can't get over that space bar. Ah well, I can't draw conclusions w/out actually typing on it20:06
t_s_omeh, it should be no worse then the onscreen keyboard ;)20:07
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javispedrosomebody said video but I'm yet to find it20:07
lcukStskeeps, these certainly look prettier than the ugly prototypes we saw in cph20:07
javispedrovideo out20:07
VDVsxand more:
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javispedrothe picture with the composite cable20:08
VDVsxmemory :32 GB :)20:08
qwerty12_N810Oh shit, they were selling it20:09
lcukVDVsx, o_O that much20:09
VDVsxidonesia ?20:10
VDVsx*indonesia :P20:10
javispedroi mean, where you read that many info¿?20:10
lcukthats a seriously wicked quantity, i'd never find enough stuff to fill it (for varying amounts of never)20:10
javispedrocause all I saw was some random copy&paste from previous specs (including 128 MiB DDR only)20:11
VDVsxjavispedro, last post pasted20:13
Stskeepslcuk: damn straight20:13
lcukStskeeps, i have a 1gb card20:14
VDVsxshit can't translate Malay to english :P20:15
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lcukVDVsx, "oh fuck dude, you are so gonna get sued"20:16
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VDVsxlcuk, actually I think, they are selling the device, like qwerty12_N810 referred20:17
Stskeepsit was told in talk.* too20:17
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javispedrotalk.* still sounds like a newsgroup to me ;)20:17
Stskeepsit certainly has it's shares of trolling and such20:18
qwerty12_N810but by me before ;)20:18
lcukpeople can sell stuff that doesnt belong to them20:19
lcukthat doesnt mean they are allowed to sell it20:19
VDVsxbest translation: DIRECT then DEH: NI ADA ITEM BARU KELUARAN Nokia newest that BELUM DI LAUNCH DI INDONESIA Nokia RX 51 (BM BNIB, NGA IN LOCK SO could TUK SMUA OPRATOR) There was those who are INTERESTED??? ANE had one UNIT, please was bought20:19
javispedroalso, you can get sued even for selling stuff that belongs to you ;)20:19
StskeepsBELUM DI LAUNCH!20:19
qwerty12_N810I wonder what updating that device is going to go like...20:19
qwerty12_N810This is Indonesia; who's gonna give a shit? :P20:20
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: SSU that upon locating the MAC address, turns on GPS, transmit..20:20
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, nop20:20
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, malay20:20
qwerty12_N810lots of phone warez forums are located in that part of asi20:20
javispedroMAC? we already have the IMEI20:20
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: as well as IMEI ban20:20
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: even better20:20
javispedrojust track it as soon as it gets on the network then send black helicopters20:20
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, the language, your are right in the country, I guess :P20:21
Stskeepstracking on gsm isn't always trivial, gps coordinates are more handy :P20:21
lcuknijas, please send the ninjas20:21
lcukninjas even20:21
javispedroblack helicopters with ninjas20:21
lcukhelicopters are so 90's20:21
lcuko_O that would work20:21
lcukbut you would have to hear the helicopters20:21
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qwerty12_N810ROFLMAO though: selling a device while displaying the IMEI publically20:21
javispedroor just bomb the whole country from space. Some Nokians have shown the ability to do that.20:22
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VDVsxI predict, that someone will be fired at nokia :P20:22
Mekor one of its subcontractors... :)20:23
* javispedro can't wait to buy that device then wait for the ICBM20:23
qwerty12_N810It's like those eBay auctions where someone is selling a genuine XP key, while displaying a picture of the packaging (and inadvertly the serial)20:23
VDVsxoh my20:23
RST38hWill we see a suicide?20:24
VDVsxlolol: * Linux Operating System based on Maema 520:24
lcuki hope not :(20:24
lcukthat was bad shit20:24
RST38hqwerty: Have I told you the story about Microsoft anti-piracy ads in local subway?20:24
RST38hVDVsx: It's a girrrl!20:24
javispedroMaemia 520:24
StskeepsVDVsx: maema freemantle!20:24
qwerty12_N810RST38h: No, but'd I'd be interested in hearing :)20:24
javispedroMaema Fremantel20:24
Stskeepsalso, friggen 32gb, that's insane20:25
lcukthats hot!20:25
javispedrowith that the hidden sd slot makes sense20:25
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lcukthey could almost have no sd slot with that much lol20:26
RST38hqwerty: Microsoft ran ads in subway, that showed metrosexual-looking guy with a WIndows box, saying "I did not know before. But now I KNOW"20:26
javispedrolcuk, repeat that again next year ;)20:26
RST38hqwerty: (about geniuine non-pirated Windows, apparently)20:26
javispedrowhen SDXC cards are common20:26
lcukjavispedro, you mean you dont have a soldering iron?20:26
lcukand when they are common, wont we need a device that supports them20:27
RST38hqwerty: Somebody wrote a valid Windows serial number across many of these =)20:27
lcukwhich will have 2Tb in the box20:27
qwerty12_N810RST38h: rofl, and that was meant to be taken seriously?20:27
javispedrolcuk, if I had a hot air station, I would've fixed my Palm T|X and probably wouldn't be here today ;)20:27
RST38hqwerty: Apparently.20:27
qwerty12_N810lol, Russians are jokers20:27
RST38hqwerty: MS does a lot of weird things20:27
RST38hqwerty: Their marketing department faces a tough tasks of selling unmarketable, so only the really disconnected people stay there20:28
qwerty12_N810I wonder if englishrussia'll have it :)20:28
glassms has plenty of money for advertising. and plenty of advertisers pitch stupid shit to them i'd reckon20:28
* VDVsx wonders for how much the sold the proto20:28
StskeepsVDVsx: none, probably20:29
lcukis it on ebay or private sale lol20:29
qwerty12_N810That ysss guy said it was sold for $80020:29
VDVsxStskeeps, says SOLD OUT there20:29
* qwerty12_N810 wonders how close that is to the official price =)20:30
StskeepsVDVsx: the device not pictures20:30
VDVsxStskeeps, yup, lol20:30
Stskeepspictures were probably carelessly put up20:30
* RST38h likes what he sees so far20:30
javispedroofficial price will be $900, and then I'll suicide20:30
RST38hjavis: How about your left kidney instead? =)20:31
qwerty12_N810Kidney. OM NOM NOM20:31
Stskeepswtf @ 195 guests20:31
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lcukStskeeps, best close some of your browser windows20:34
Stskeepslcuk: i'm always logged in at talk :P20:34
VDVsxengadget already pick it20:35
Stskeepswtf is the / button? caps? :P20:36
Stskeepsthe arrow20:36
VDVsxblue one ?20:36
javispedrooh, well. at least they added in more margin-top to the keyboard.20:37
VDVsxlike fn in the laptops :)20:37
Stskeepsjavispedro: i really hate the low margin on my n81020:37
javispedroChr/Sym is now two keypress apart instead of only one.20:38
RST38hkeyboard looks decent20:39
RST38hI cant believe I am saying this but it looks decent20:40
aolwhy are they referring them as tablets20:40
aolit's clearly a phonme ?20:40
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RST38hI do not think they know that for sure20:40
RST38hNot yet20:40
RST38hIt is a test model, as a phone20:40
javispedroat least, it's not a disaster-phone20:41
StskeepsRST38h: as i've said since the developer units, i want one :P20:41
lcuk(that has nothing to do with convo, just a break from tech fapping)20:41
RST38h+ it is the most iPhoneish Nokia so far20:42
lcukapart from the fact its got a keyboard and loads of things you can change and remove and add20:43
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Jaffalcuk: pong21:06
lcukhiya jaffa \o21:08
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RST38hNo ESCAPE key21:14
StskeepsRST38h: we can't see the screen so that's a bit unfair to assume :)21:15
Stskeepsalso, you don't need esc with the click-outside-dialog21:15
GeneralAntilles3-row ouch21:15
qwerty12_N810Well, yerga was right: Nokia did leak a (tiny) image in the SDK :P21:15
GeneralAntillesAt least the fingerkeyboard is still there.21:15
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GeneralAntillesDefinitely a phone.21:16
GeneralAntillesLots of pads in the battery compartment.21:17
GeneralAntillesNot a great place for hacking, though.21:17
Stskeepswith a docking station, probably21:18
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GeneralAntillesThat's great for Nokia repair centers and testing facilities21:19
GeneralAntillesNot so great for mobile hackers. ;)21:19
Stskeeps(those are kinda cool to see irl :P)21:19
GeneralAntillesThe N800 and N810 have their pads exposed next to the battery21:19
GeneralAntillesI can't believe they killed the kickstand21:20
GeneralAntillesWhat is it with Nokia's hardware devision?21:20
Stskeepsno, it's not killed21:20
Stskeepslook at the camera21:20
GeneralAntilles"We have this super awesome idea—GET RID OF IT!!!"21:20
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, useless.21:20
GeneralAntillesLess than useless.21:20
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GeneralAntillesWorse than the 770 stand.21:20
Stskeepsput a larger stand on it21:20
GeneralAntillesI want something I can lay on my side in bed with.21:22
RST38hGeneral, you can just place it against the wall or a pillow21:22
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RST38hKickstand is a minor feature21:23
RST38hThere will probably be bigger disappointments down the line21:23
qwerty12_N810It is useful when watching movies IMO21:23
GeneralAntillesRST38h, no, it's not.21:23
Stskeepsah, quim is awake on the rx-51 thread :)21:23
GeneralAntillesAnd, no, walls and pillows don't work.21:23
RST38hSts: Ahahahah finally21:23
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* RST38h thought Quim would be real quiet =)21:24
StskeepsRST38h: he is, but watching :)21:24
qwerty12_N810Well, whatever he says at this point in the game can't beat those pics :)21:24
RST38hGeneral: Looks like they are using the same RAM+ROM Samsung chip21:24
RST38hGeneral: This feels like a bigger disappointment to me21:24
Stskeepsthe ram chip is from some weirdass blog21:24
RST38hoh ok21:24
RST38hlowering credibility on this one21:25
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qwerty12_N810RST38h: Their last tablets were cobbled up from whatever they had in the "bin", I think they wish to impress more this time :)21:26
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GeneralAntillesIt's a testament to how good Nokia is at killing community spirit that I'm really not at all excited by these pictures. . . .21:27
* Stskeeps passes GeneralAntilles some happy pills.21:27
qwerty12_N810Amsterdam has something for everyone...21:28
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RST38hGeneral: You should really read that last massacre guy diary21:28
RST38hIt will inevitably put you into better mood =)21:29
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konttori__oh. cool
JaffaGeneralAntilles: well, that and it'd all been leaked. Only question outstanding is price & release date21:29
GeneralAntilleskonttori__, I don't think these release you from any signed papers. :D21:30
RST38hGeneral: There are arrow keys, the thing is no longer painted, it looks as close to goddamn iPhone as any Nokia product ever got, it is a phone, the screen is now protected from scratching, WHAT is there to be unhappy about?21:30
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I didn't say I was unhappy, I just said that this completely fails to excite me.21:32
JaffaBezelless screen21:32
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RST38hForget Nokia's relations with the community, forget the OS disaster, the support disaster21:32
GeneralAntillesWhich is sad, because there was a time when I'd've been giddy over every tidbit about the N900 I could find.21:32
RST38hIt looks like a nice product, as a user I would buy this with Maemo or Symbian, no matter what21:32
JaffaAnd Maemo beats Symbian21:33
RST38hOk, it looks like some HTC product maybe21:33
RST38hBut HTCs are booby trapped with WinCE21:33
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GeneralAntillesPictures just make Talk 5 times sillier.21:35
RST38hWith every lurker crawling from under the woodwork with his opinion, no wonder21:36
RST38hOk, Mara is all but saying that 128MB is bullshit21:40
GeneralAntillesI agree.21:40
Stskeepsthere's no way in hell fennec could be that fast on 128mb, tbh.21:40
Jaffatmo's better than Engadget21:41
JaffaNot saying much, admittedly21:41
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GeneralAntillesNot much at all.21:41
GeneralAntillesThat's only marginally better than saying Talk's better than Digg. ;)21:41
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GeneralAntillesIt's interesting to see them stamp it with Cortex A821:43
GeneralAntillesTraditionally it's been damn near impossible to confirm what Nokia packs in their devices.21:43
Stskeepsprobably Cortex A8 is known cos of iphonies21:43
GeneralAntillesand Pre, to an extent.21:43
Stskeeps"this isn't a N97" would have worked too21:44
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GeneralAntillesInteresting that we still have no idea what they're actually going to call it.21:44
* GeneralAntilles spots the front-facing camera.21:45
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RST38hIs there an LED?21:47
konttori__lol. one of the photos contains a fraction of a thumbprint. Now, someone can use CSI magic to hunt for who took the photos. Of whatever device that is.21:48
qwerty12_N810The icon in the SDK suggests that there is one in the left corner21:48
konttori__eh, in slashgear21:48
javispedrokonttori__, of course, ignoring the imei is totally visible21:48
javispedrothat'll make an average csi plot :D21:48
GeneralAntilleskonttori__, when are the Nokia prototype ninjas going to strike? ;)21:49
konttori__when you least expect21:49
javispedrowhat has people got with capacitive screens21:49
javispedrothey suck21:49
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, iPhone hype.21:49
RST38hjavis: depends on what you need21:50
konttori__resistive and capacitive have both their good and bad.21:50
GeneralAntillesIt's the same reason people salivate over Tegras.21:50
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RST38hjavis: for the Maemo UI, capacitive screen would be a disaster21:50
GeneralAntillesI can't stand capacitive for any sort of reasonably detailed work over any reasonable period of time.21:50
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RST38hjavis: not enough precision21:50
GeneralAntillesBut for quite or distracted activities it's nice.21:50
konttori__it has reliable hit metric - any developer would love that compared to filtered resistive hits.21:50
Stskeepskonttori__: SSU targetting certain IMEI and serial / MAC, which turns on GPS and sends coordinates daily should do the trick. (fingerprints)21:50
* GeneralAntilles downloads all the pictures in preparation for the Nokia ninjas.21:51
konttori__lol! Now, that sounds like a viable CSI plot21:51
GeneralAntilleskonttori__, nah, too technically believable. ;)21:51
RST38hJust make them all self destruct on a certain IP packet21:51
* javispedro sees gerbick already telling engadgetians how nokia abandons support for a device few years after release21:52
GeneralAntillesAnybody notice how much this thing looks like the mockups from the Summit?21:52
RST38h3 months and 20-30 two-handed indonesians later...21:52
GeneralAntillesGerbick is a funny guy.21:52
Jaffas/funny/yet-another-tmo-troll/ ?21:52
GeneralAntillesi.e., a hypocrite and an idiot. ;)21:52
RST38hWell, he CAN'T get wrong telling that, can he?21:52
javispedroso instead of NIT I have to call this piece of plastic Maemo SmartPhone?21:53
* GeneralAntilles goes back to work.21:53
GeneralAntillesIt's a Maemo Devices Maemo device.21:53
RST38hjavis: Maemophone seems to be a well established meme by now21:54
javispedrorandom engadgetian: "I agree. They keep calling this a tablet. Looks like just another boring phone to me. "21:54
Jaffajavispedro: NIT could be "Nokia Internet Telephony" ;-£)21:54
tomaterrdoes any1 know the name of that app that lets you download websites for the n81021:54
GeneralAntillesCan't please them all. ;)21:54
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Jaffajavispedro: Yeah, who's this "they"?21:54
javispedroengadget itself21:54
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RST38hFolks, stop going all mad about t.m.o posters, ok?21:55
JaffaIf Nokia don't fsck it up, an open proven Linux-based phone platform with no oddities to get root or weird supplier locks on app "approval"s21:55
RST38hOpinions are like assholes, we all have them21:55
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RST38hWhy worry so much?21:55
Jaffajavispedro: Indeed. I saw the comment.21:55
javispedroI assume Nokia believes that since it now looks like a boring phone it will sell like  .. pancakes.21:56
JaffaRST38h: Who's worried? Moaning here gives us a break from supporting the "community" when a vocal minority likes stabbbing you in the back21:56
javispedroand probably'll drop the tablet moniker21:56
Jaffajavispedro: You mean hotcakes? ;-)21:56
Stskeepspancakes sell.21:56
javispedroit's summer now, too hot already.21:56
RST38hJaffa: Don't moan, strike back =)21:56
RST38hJaffa: Troll them all to insanity21:57
RST38hJaffa: Post some news about this device running Android21:57
javispedroquick, fire up photoshop for the android mockup.21:58
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JaffaMmmm, pancakes21:59
javispedroor fake qgil and post: "after harmattan, we will be switching toolkits again. this time we're going to use Motif due to its low memory footprint."21:59
RST38hjavis: not credible21:59
RST38hjavis: I would say though, something about harmattan itself should do the job22:00
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Jaffa`qgi1' username is probably free ;-)22:01
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JaffaI'm trying to work out what that "flip" sticker on the back of one of the photos is trying to show.22:02
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JaffaAh. Battery & SIM location?22:02
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javispedroJaffa, on the cloud, like the iPhone.22:03
RST38hit tells user how to insert sim22:03
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Seen the pics of the N86 stand? Looks like that might be on RX-5122:04
Jaffatmo posters claiming that this isn't in the same market as Apple22:07
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javispedroI wouldn't want it to be in the same market as Apple.22:08
javispedrocause that means progressive dumb down.22:08
xnt14[work]OMFG!!!  OMFG!!!  OMFG!!!  RX-51!!!!!! OMFG!!!   /me faints22:08
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xnt14[work]its looks awesome22:08
javispedrohow many tmo threads were opened already?22:08
RST38hJaffa: You can't be in the same market as Apple22:08
qwerty12_N810Actually, I've convinced myself: Whatever operators may do to the device, cannot be as bad as what Apple do to the iPhone by default22:08
xnt14[work]except for the spacebar :P22:09
RST38hJaffa: If you are in the same market as Apple, you lose to Apple22:09
xnt14[work]but ill get used to it22:09
RST38hJaffa: Pushing aside high end HTCs would still be a nice goal though22:09
javispedroRST38h, or use your borg-like superpowers to add Apple's biological and technological distinctiveness to your own. Like Microsoft.22:09
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wazdI'm back!22:10
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wazd_/flame_war mode on22:10
Stskeepswb wazd22:10
* xnt14[work] hopes the mer + n900 + opengl + wazd's awesome theme = me screaming in excitement xD22:10
RST38hjavis: You still lose to Apple22:10
lcukwazd, has your "package" arrived from the far east yet? lol22:10
RST38hjavis: The problem with Apple is that you are not fighting technology, you are fighting the image22:11
javispedroRST38h, so you just sell those guys Office and watch the cash flow.22:11
RST38hjavis: So, whatever straight thinking Finnish engineers can possible throw at Apple, it won't stand Jobsian reality distortion field22:12
javispedroI agree completely :)22:12
RST38hjavis: But if you target business market, for example...22:12
RST38hjavis: Or the cheap media phone market...22:12
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JaffaRST38h: Yeah, but people used to say that about IBM. Then about Microsoft. Now about Google and/or Apple.22:13
RST38hjavis: Or the communicators...22:13
Stskeepsright, yeah, vim users aren't going to like this tablet..22:13
JaffaNot that I think the Maemo 5 lead device is going to make Nokia all successful.22:13
JaffaBut *some* market share would be nice ;-)22:13
RST38hJaffa: Oh, Apple is far, FAR from the point where IBM became competitable22:13
javispedromore trolls for tmo is ALWAYS a good thing :)22:13
StskeepsJaffa: if they were sane they grouped up with application vendors.. i think it's interesting to see Skype in the fold again22:13
RST38hJaffa: To me, this n9x0 thing looks more like 7650 or N95, a test model22:13
JaffaStskeeps: Skype in the fold again?22:14
StskeepsJaffa: look at summit schedule..22:14
RST38hJaffa: as in "reached point where you could compete with it"22:14
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: it's a phone now :(22:14
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: and? VoIP is still needed22:14
esaym153anyone know an easy what to get the perl zlib module onto the n810?22:15
Jaffajavispedro: More people to vote other trolls in to the council ;-)22:15
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: heard about the operators getting hard-ons wrt skype on n-series?22:15
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: yes, of course22:15
JaffaStskeeps: I thought I saw them in there. But I couldn't be sure.22:15
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: well..22:15
javispedroMaemo Troll Council. First action: switch to Symbian.22:15
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JaffaAnd then get surprised that they represent the community, and don't control Nokia's Maemo Devices teams22:16
wazdok, there is no opaque layer on the screen?22:20
wazdis the screen polarized OLED or something?22:20
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RST38hit looks like the same covering as 580022:20
wazdRST38h: you can't see screen edges on any shot22:20
wazdRST38h: you can see it on 580022:21
RST38hwazd: wait, there is an edge22:21
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RST38hjust like in 580022:21
wazdRST38h: <- where is it? :)22:21
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: Plasma uses more memory in 4.3 if anything22:22
RST38hwazd: here:
wazdRST38h: can't see anything :)22:22
RST38hthere is an edge22:22
lcukdoes anyone know how i search entire filesystem for large files and list them by size22:23
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wazdlcuk: you don't need any arrange system, remember? :)22:23
lcukthats the tool sampppa !22:24
lcukthe one you hinted at earlier22:24
sampppayes :)22:24
lcukthe command line came back with 2 things earlier :$ but i had other things i needed to do22:24
sampppagotta go to sauna ->22:24
lcukthanks \o22:24
sampppanp. :)22:24
wazdsampppa: hate you in advance :)22:25
sampppawhy? :)22:25
wazdsampppa: for sauna :P22:25
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wazdno buttons at all in the front is a serious chalenge to Apple :D22:28
tomaterroh gawd22:28
qwerty12_N810Making it unable to do shit would be an even bigger one :)22:28
tomaterrthats an apple requirement22:29
wazdqwerty12_N810: Apple will place the screen on the side next :D22:29
lcukin other news, microsoft made a touch sensitive keyboard...  and its actually an interesting concept22:29
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wazdanother hilarious quote from engadget22:31
wazdiono man, how can anyone possibly compete with these super innovative features.22:31
* Jaffa can't believe they are *just* touting C&P in iPhone ads.22:31
lcukits only to shutup the 100000000000 people who think its amusing to call into an apple store and ask22:33
RST38hOn the other hand, Nokia with its "multimedia computer" claim...22:33
wazdRST38h: well, it's more realistic than incredibility of CP :)22:34
JaffaRST38h: And Nokia never paid for a TV ad in prime time to hype it22:34
javispedrothat's the ad. no cut at all.22:35
RST38hBTW, have you noticed that the temporary screen protector can now be kept on?22:35
javispedroi see it's as funny in english as in spanish.22:35
RST38hthe silvery tab is removable22:35
wazdJaffa: 5800 ads says another thing :)22:35
JaffaMaybe they will with Rover. Or maybe this is the niche stepping stone to the highend Harmattan device.22:35
Jaffawazd: I've not seen one. Lots of N97 ads around22:35
javispedro"you get the idea". Yes. I do.22:35
RST38hwazd: N97 ads make me want to kill everyone shown in the ad22:36
RST38hwazd: bloggers...22:36
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wazdRST38h: I've seen only MTS one22:37
wazdJaffa: we had a real flood of it here22:37
RST38hwazd: the one about a concert?22:38
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wazdRST38h: no, bout a first person shooter :)22:38
RST38hah, that one was tolerable22:38
RST38hThis one was good:
wazdRST38h: that one22:40
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* Jaffa is in a dilemma. I've got a nice small 3G phone. I've got a contract.22:40
JaffaI want a Rover with a data contract.22:41
RST38hmove the sim card22:41
wazdRST38h: MIDI music must die in pain22:41
qwerty12_N810Would you be eligible for an upgrade by the time it comes out?22:42
RST38hwazd: Oh there is a use for it22:42
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RST38hwazd: Take an orchestra, attach eletrodes to each performer, then connect to a MIDI sequencer22:42
lcukfsck electrodes - just make em work with wiimo^M N900's22:43
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: No. And I'm on Vodafone22:44
JaffaRST38h: Vodafone don't do good data contracts.22:44
lcuksimulate string instruments using touch, have motion tracked with accel and even use the mic to blow22:44
wazdRST38h: now THAT is an AD:
JaffaMight have to get a Three PAYG SIM for their 5ukp top up for a gig or so of data a month. Then have a separate phone and tablet until contract runs out, then port number to whatever's best22:45
RST38hJaffa: How expensive is data outside the contract>22:45
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JaffaRST38h: Pricey enough. But I'll check and/or ring them up22:46
* Jaffa assumes that if there is a device programme, they won't be SIMlocked. He also assumes that TMob-provided ones will still be rootable.22:47
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RST38h5ukp for 1GB of data sounds good22:47
JaffaYeah. Enough to not worry about it for general email/light web use.22:48
JaffaAnd, of course, Modest discourages the former ;-)22:48
RST38hyou won't hit 1GB with the tablet22:48
RST38hthe only way to hit 1gb is to download video, really22:48
RST38hI honestly tried22:49
lcukplus, we have big highres camera now22:49
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* qwerty12_N810 hopes that browserd is not still in use. Apart from being useless, it also breaks extensions22:49
RST38hFor a month, 8 hours a day working on a PC, still less than 1GB22:49
lcukit will be easy to want to push to friends22:49
RST38hYes, once you are sending 5mpx images out, you may do it22:50
lcukand those friends will be sending them back to you22:50
lcukcos they have nokias too22:50
JaffaRST38h: But then there are things like this:
JaffaISTR being excited at the time, but the small print was... less so.22:50
JaffaAnd there's a 500MB limit on that Vodafone thing22:51
lcuki wonder if theres video included22:51
lcukif it uses the same gstreamer infrstructure it should be possible right?22:51
Jaffalcuk: I bet you can record high-res video at a decent framerate22:52
lcukheh jaffa? 5megapixel :D22:53
lcukim just stoked the camera is in the right place22:53
lcukwithout compromise, no faffy rotating thing, a proper cam :)22:54
JaffaVodafone are a bunch of brain-eating fucktards. Press release above touts "mobile internet for all" - but then this page describes what I remember getting through the post: - 5ukp for non-P2P/non-VoIP 500MB limit22:55
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lcukjaffa, compromise is better than nothing22:57
lcukand i wonder how it knows p2p22:57
lcukthanks Stskeeps22:58
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lcuk20090204 11:02.50Stskeepsexport PAGER=more maybe       < for this22:59
woglindehms why is so slow22:59
lcukcos you just asked that same question on 900 irc channels?23:01
|thunderwhatd ya do ? use /amsg ?23:02
woglindeonly here23:02
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lcukdunno sometimes random slowdowns occur everywhere23:02
glassJaffa: 500mb limit in terms that "anyone" can understand, i suppose23:04
glass"non p2p"23:04
glassJaffa: it's bullshit of course23:04
glassJaffa: mobile internet becomes a lot more useful if you don't have such limits that effectively make it a suicide to do anything bandwith intensive23:05
RST38hglass: 1GB limit is totally reasonable23:05
glass"you can download 200kbyte/s!" ".. for couple of minutes"23:05
glassRST38h: no it isn't23:05
RST38hglass: As I said, hitting it is complicated23:05
glassRST38h: i've had unlimited for years23:06
RST38h500MB is way less so23:06
konttori__needless to say that unlimited 3g costs 9 euros per month in finland.23:06
glasskonttori__: exactly23:06
RST38hglass: I had unlimited in US, then limited to 110MB in Russia, our caps now are 30GB23:06
RST38hglass: Never hitting this limit23:06
konttori__yeah, well, 30 gb sounds reasonable23:06
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RST38hglass: Up to 700MB things were problematic, but not after that23:06
glassRST38h: you would if you wanted to download 40 gigs23:06
RST38hkonttori: I can actually get unlim, but they want a VPN connection23:07
RST38hkonttori: It will be cheaper (!) too23:07
glasswhy don't you get it?23:07
RST38hglass: There is nothing of this size I want to download23:07
glassvpn gives you private ip?23:07
RST38hglass: private connection, they do not want people to jack into the switch and impersonate me23:07
RST38hglass: But I have multiple machines at home, so I would have to buy a router with VPN client (NOT passthrough)23:08
glassyeah but you could setup the vpn to most home-grade"switches" anyways nowadays23:08
RST38hglass: Not most, some23:08
glassRST38h: well units that cost 20-30bucks23:08
RST38hglass: actually not, those only offer pass throughs23:08
glassRST38h: depends on the router i suppose23:08
RST38hglass: But yes, I could buy a $150+ DLink router that has VPN client on its own23:09
glasswhy so expensive23:09
RST38hglass: But I read some reviews of that and it does not look solid :(23:09
glasslots of cheapers have hackable/community23:09
RST38hglass: It is considered a small business grade router23:09
glassRST38h: small business grade is a marketing term that means 100$ extra23:09
RST38hglass: yes23:09
glassit's all same shit still23:09
RST38hglass: and faster cpu too because vpn needs that23:10
Andy80Jaffa: don't know anything about discount program (well... I really hope they'll repeat it :P ) but, for example, in Italy no one sell locked phones anymore.... they lock you with a contract :) but you  can use any sim...23:10
glassand i'm not trusting dlink after they failed to make a 100mbit switch that would've stayed functional for couple of years23:10
RST38hglass: Dunno, DLInk still has to disappoint me23:10
glassRST38h: yeah but cpu speed isn't what affects if the device is 50 or 100 bucks23:10
glassRST38h: the cards i got with that switch worked great though23:10
glassRST38h: but the switch died one day, blinked lights and all23:11
RST38hglass: No, not really. It is all in the name really23:11
lcukRST38h, how much bandwidth does something like vnc take23:11
glassthe same china factories make all anyways :D23:11
lcuki realise ssh sessions are simple23:11
JaffaAndy80: Indeed. You can buy unlocked phones in the UK too; but most people get them subsidised through a contract or shared cost as a PAYG deal23:11
RST38hAnyways, I am still not ready to replace my DI-624 with a new router23:11
lcukwhat about x11 remoting ot whatever its called23:11
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RST38hlcuk: I do not think it takes a lot extra23:11
RST38hlcuk: in 10-15% range I guess23:12
glassRST38h: i got a while ago this one router i slapped tomato fw into and it has served me sweeet.. it can do wifi client too for erm.. emergency access23:12
lcukjust with you saying about your many machines connectivity23:12
Andy80Jaffa: in Italy, for example, people is so crazy/stupid to pay even 600€ for an iPhone, with no contract at all :)23:12
glassAndy80: 600 for iphone without contract wouldn't be bad compared to most iphone contracts it was sold with23:13
qwerty12_N810Andy80: Apple's perfect userbase :)23:13
konttori__indeed. same price here.23:13
Andy80I'm talking about 3Gs eh.... 3G costs about 499€23:13
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RST38hglass: There is one catch to our caps though23:13
glassRST38h: porno filters?23:14
RST38hglass: Actually, two: 1) you can exceed the cap but then you are paying by MB and 2) all local traffic is free23:14
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glassRST38h: russia?23:14
RST38hglass: Given that DC++ network is local...23:14
glassyou mentioned something about russia anyhow23:14
RST38hglass: No,
RST38hglass: Which covers Moscow north/northwest basically23:15
glassRST38h: okays. i've heard of such setups. and the student network here had a similar setup23:15
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RST38hglass: Yes, except that this "student network" potentially connects 3-4 million people23:17
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glassRST38h: i still prefer the billions over millions23:17
RST38hglass: But the arrangement appeared in a similar way, some guys connected their computers together with ethernet, then connected a few more buildings, started charging money, etc23:18
RST38hglass: Not a problem, you just pay for traffic outside ultranet.ru23:18
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lcukor people in the net that can afford and dont mind just carry on paying their normal net fee and just provide a gateway23:19
glassRST38h: look.. my warez habits have gone the way of pressing entire seasons or series to download at once23:19
RST38hglass: Most of the ...ehh... content can be found locally though, so there is no need to download 40GB of video from the outside23:19
glassmodern marvels ftw23:19
RST38hglass: Well, I downloaded Fringe from the Net last time, and did not hit my cap :)23:19
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ideamonkhmm got problems... followed till step 4 on
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glassRST38h: it's all relative though.. prices of things23:21
ideamonkXephyr is running in another window23:21
ideamonkbut [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > start23:21
ideamonkbash: command not found23:21
ideamonkdoesnt work23:21
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RST38hAt the end of the day, the only prices that matter are lodging, food, and transporation23:21
glassmedicine, fun23:22
glasscan't live without fun23:22
glasspeople suicide then23:22
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woglindere rst23:23
RST38hfun can be had rather cheaply23:23
RST38hbooks, hobbies, light tourism23:23
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RST38bishealth and education are tough though23:25
glasssince i had to stop drinking my aspirations for another trip to russia have pretty much died23:25
glasseducation is free if you got internet and brains and language skills23:25
glassand time23:25
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RST38biswell, educating kids is more complicated23:26
glassit seems like that everywhere, everytime23:26
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glasswe went to russian karelia in the early '90s with family(i must have been 12-13 or so)23:27
glassafter the curtain fell. was pretty exotic..23:28
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glassso. anyone got board/chip specs of the rx5123:29
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RST38bisglass: i would suggest moscow in cool dry weather23:32
RST38bisglass: can wander here for hours and never see a repeating sight23:33
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dropcodeI'm wondering if theres anyone here who can answer a question for me regarding Python Purple23:38
dropcodeI'm just wondering if its possible to get it set up on either windows or a linux that isn't debian?23:38
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dropcodei'm not all too proficient with linux myself so I don't really know where to start23:39
ideamonkcan i install apps on the maemo emulator ? if so how ? and the default setup really seems empty !23:40
ideamonkis that normal or i scrwd the setup23:40
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RST38bisyou can, apt-get23:46
ideamonkoh is it... thats sweeet23:46
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