IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-08-09

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VDVsxoh my 'gerbick' also trolls in engadget :(00:09
JaffaHe's the new Mike Cane00:10
JaffaAltho' I've seen his name re-trolling recently00:10
qwerty12_N810We Want Darius!00:10
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JaffaDarius for pres^Wcouncil00:13
JaffaTalking of which, I need to start the balls rolling00:13
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RST38bisDarius is unavailable at the moment, being serviced at some psychiatric ward.00:14
Stskeepswhere's frank.wagner when we need him!00:14
RST38bisBut he will be back as soon as his sedatives wear off00:15
VDVsxmet darius, Mike cane isn't from my time, I guess :)00:15
qwerty12_N810Lol, even Reggie banned him00:15
RST38bisDarius is actually a star of a kind00:15
qwerty12_N810(and Reggie isn't really one to use his power against proper members)00:16
RST38bisFamous Polish nutcase troll00:16
qwerty12_N810With an Yahoo Ireland account :)00:16
VDVsxDarius was a star ....for some time00:17
RST38bisqwerty: oh, you don't wanna say...00:17
VDVsx"will be the next think tank", eheheh00:18
VDVsxthe guy always said that :)00:19
qwerty12_N810Khertan's awesome: [to Darius] "Stupid asshole could you stop spamming ... !"00:19
Stskeepswhich would have sounded even more awesome in french00:20
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VDVsx" Notice there are no Red and Green Buttons ( Call send and End ) could be touch sensitive like in Nokia 5530 ." hummm00:21
Stskeepsdid noone notice it has a screen protector on it?00:21
Stskeepsthe sticker is even there to peel it off00:21
VDVsxyup, I noticed that00:21
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* qwerty12_N810 wonders if it'll be able to run MIDP stuff, being a phone and all...00:22
Stskeepsit should be powerful enough for it00:23
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: I'd be surprised OOTB, but Jalimo etc will run well00:24
JaffaThe new ARM JVMs are reasonable enough on an N8x0 once started00:25
JaffaHopefully the fasterness will help there (and Python, too)00:26
JaffaBed time00:26
qwerty12_N810It'd be interesting, after all, even my old N-Gage (no, it was not used for calls) could run MIDP 1.0 stuff :)00:26
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xnt14[work]~beatup the idiots who made mssql and liberty00:34
xnt14[work]~beat the idiots who made mssql and liberty00:35
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xnt14[work]~kill the idiots who made mssql and liberty00:35
* infobot beats the idiots who made mssql and liberty with a very wet, sticky noodle00:35
* infobot shoots a excited pseudophoton gun at the idiots who made mssql and liberty00:35
* Stskeeps passes xnt14[work] some ritalin00:35
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* xnt14[work] chokes the Developer at ms00:36
xnt14[work]no really, they are retards.....00:36
* xnt14[work] goes back to win2000......00:36
xnt14[work]*forcibly :P00:37
* xnt14[work] wonders if this thing works with mysql......00:37
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: not that you care about fremantle that much, but with fremantle beta2 xchat has started breaking00:38
Stskeeps(when we added those apis)00:38
Stskeepsa heads up :)00:38
Stskeepswill be writing a patch for it probably00:39
qwerty12_N810I'm not an maintainer of it anyway, it was just a move to 2.8.6 and other hacks that I wanted to see00:39
RST38biswhat apis btw??00:40
StskeepsRST38bis: ah, we upgraded to gtk 2.14 and newer libosso, something's bound to go wrong00:40
RST38bisah, sure00:41
RST38bisthat has got all the chances to break apps =)00:41
qwerty12_N810Adding vibration would be awesome (it's always been a TODO to add LED support...)00:41
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RST38bisyellow or magenta led color =)00:44
RST38bisi have never seen these two before00:44
qwerty12_N810Grab jott's and see them :)00:44
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RST38bisgot it, just havent tried it00:47
FirebirdHmm, has anyone ported ogre3d to maemo 5?00:49
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timeless_mbp /j mercurial01:26
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Macerdosbox for maemo?01:46
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javispedroMacer, it's been on extras-devel for a while02:09
Macerjavispedro: just got my n810 last week02:12
Macerbut ive been usikng mer for a bit02:12
Macerand well.....02:12
Macerno comment02:13
javispedroMacer, ah, first contact with Mer still scares a bit, if that's what you mean02:14
Macera bit is an understatement02:15
Macerbut i guess everything starts somewhere02:15
Macerim using pb's maemo to sd deal now02:15
Macerso far maemo seems the best bet on an n81002:16
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javispedrogot to the mario kart title screen02:36
javispedroat frameskip=1 it's faster than realtime02:37
javispedrounfortunately crashes when enabling gcc's -O :(02:37
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timeless_mbphey, is there a .install for Tear?02:49
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Macermario kart?03:03
Macerif it's the n64 edition it's worth it03:03
Macertoo bad there is no 3d on an n810 even tho the hardware is there03:04
Maceri have to flash the n810 again03:04
Macerand start from scratch03:04
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doc|homethat is very tempting04:10
GeneralAntillesDooo it.04:11
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doc|homealthough it looks thicker, more phone like than previous-tablet like04:12
* timeless_mbp hasn't seen phones that thick recently :)04:13
doc|homefriend of mine has a sony-ericsson which is about that thick04:13
doc|homerecent one too04:14
doc|homethen again, hopefully it'll mean it'll have a great battery life04:14
* timeless_mbp rotfl04:15
timeless_mbpimpeccable logic04:15
timeless_mbpit's big, it must have great battery life04:17
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doc|hometimeless_mbp: you'll see there I said "hopefully"04:17
Luke-JrI might be tempted for a RX-51 if its keyboard didn't suck even more than the N810's already does04:18
timeless_mbpyou could have just as easily said "it's new, hopefully that'll mean it'll have great battery life"04:18
timeless_mbpLuke-Jr: some people claim it the keyboard will indeed suck less than the n81004:18
Luke-Jrtimeless_mbp: just LOOK at it04:19
timeless_mbpand one would hope that once in a while we'd learn from our mistakes04:19
doc|hometimeless_mbp: how would its age alone possibly influence battery life? it being thicker may mean it contains a larger battery.04:19
Luke-Jrit's an abomination04:19
timeless_mbpLuke-Jr: i do that 5 days a week, please don't make me do that on my days off :)04:19
Luke-Jrdoc|home: unlikely. Nokia seems to be more concerned about using their existing batteries than using space available04:19
doc|homeLuke-Jr: that'd suck :/04:20
timeless_mbpdoc|home: newer technology could mean better power management04:20
timeless_mbpor the software could be less dumb about power use04:20
Luke-Jrdoc|home: the N810 no doubt has more room for battery that it doesn't use04:20
timeless_mbpthere are lots of ways04:20
timeless_mbpthe point is that your logic is as bad as mine04:20
* doc|home sighs04:20
timeless_mbpLuke-Jr 's logic otoh is quite sound04:20
timeless_mbpwe try to reuse components04:20
timeless_mbpit saves money04:20
timeless_mbpor rather, reduces cost04:20
timeless_mbpanyway, i'm still hungry04:21
timeless_mbpmaybe i can get food before the food goes away04:21
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gogolanyone spare some advice/wisdom concerning dbus?06:10
gogolI would really like to be able to cause program to stop/restart when 810 has connected to a new network.  is that possible via dbus?06:11
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yigalbadbadif i want to increase the size of the debian image for the easy-debian-chroot06:15
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yigalbadbadis there a way to increase the size of the easy-debian-chroot?06:20
gogolnot that i know of.06:20
gogolyeesh, i thought there'd be more helpful people in here.06:20
gogolim sure there's a way, i just dont know what it is.06:21
yigalbadbadwhat about creating a larger image and dd'ing the old image to the new lare06:21
yigalbadbads/lare/larger image06:21
yigalbadbadreally, no one, not even b-man?06:22
yigalbadbadwow shocked and amazed06:24
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yigal-g1i see it is fully covered in the forums06:45
yigal-g1great! i have almost installed all of texlive onto the tablet and it is working so well, but i need a little space06:46
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GeneralAntillesdoc|home, 1320mAh07:03
GeneralAntillesSame as 580007:04
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yigalbadbadgreat resize2fs perfect07:06
yigalbadbad1.8G much easier than 1.207:07
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rkirti~lart github07:37
* infobot urinates on github07:37
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RST38h'We are working harder. The financial crisis is not making it easy for them over there,' said Banjo, 24, speaking about Americans, whose trust he has won and whose money he has fleeced, via his Dell laptop.08:53
RST38h419 is cemented in Nigerian popular culture. and the scammers, known as 'yahoo-yahoo boys,' are glorified in pop songs such as 'Yahoozee,' which gained even more fame after former secretary of state Colin L. Powell danced to it at a London festival last year.08:54
RST38hPlease tell me it is from the Onion article...08:54
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: so no extra battery life from that then? :/09:07
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chxwith the builtin map, how can i get it to show where i am currently? this is silly10:00
chxit reads the GPS position from my BT receiver but the map is not zoomed in10:00
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* Stskeeps has only ever used maemo mapper and tangogps :P10:03
JaffaMorning, all10:07
Jaffachx: Press the button at the bottom right of the toolbar10:07
chxJaffa: the circled plus? nothing happens10:09
Jaffachx: Got map data loaded for your country?10:10
chxit says Canada-Alaska10:10
chxI am in Vancouver, BC10:10
chxto my best knowledge, this city is in Canada.10:11
chxIn case I am wrong, there is a USA West map too :P10:11
chxoh doh10:11
chxi needed to click that map!10:11
* chx headdesks10:11
JaffaAs an aside, I've just had an epiphany for small tweaks to Modest to make it GMail aware: 'delete' -> Archive; 'Move to GMail\Spam' -> 'Report Spam'; 'Move to GMail\Trash' -> 'Delete'10:11
Jaffachx: Yeah, only one map can be active and you need to choose which one ;-)10:12
chxok let's see maemo mapper this is a pos.10:12
Jaffa'Maps' isn't too bad. Just quirky10:13
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chxhow can i get maemo mapper to rotate to north and also to zoom in ? the zooming in out from menu is very .. cumbersome10:16
Stskeepszoom in can be done with menus10:17
chxso those are not hardwired for volume control?10:18
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chxso... neither maps nor maemo mapper can route with public transit? (google maps can)10:19
JaffaNo, any app (Maps, Maemo Mapper, browsers) can use the top button10:19
Jaffachx: Maemo Mapper uses Google Maps for routing, so it may be possible there10:20
RST38hHello, gentlemen10:22
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chxJaffa: tried these urls (like but all i get is 49 maps failed to download10:27
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chxoh. #176 let me see that10:29
chxyay this worked.10:30
ShadowJKdoc|home: 1320 is smaller than n810 battery. You can only hope the bluetooth doesnt randomly decide to use huge amounts of power as on n81010:31
ShadowJKand that the wlan chip uses less power and less cpu to push data over spi10:31
ShadowJKand that the gps uses less power10:31
ShadowJKand that the cpu can idle lower, and that the software doesnt do stupid and unneeded timers10:32
chxok i feel really stupid, how do i route with maemo mapper?10:33
chxthe menu has route but only open download and save?10:33
Stskeepsit grabs it from google maps10:33
Stskeepsit doesn't autoroute, btw :P10:33
chxdownload... curious!10:34
chxthe tablet has frozen.10:34
Stskeepsnah, it's just badly synchronous10:34
ShadowJKbest thing really would be if the battery door design was simple and versatile enough that some innovative chinese company could cheaply make and sell a bigger battery+door10:35
chxShadowJK: thats happening.10:35
chxShadowJK: just the whole n810 market is too small10:37
chxShadowJK: so we do not see something like Garmin porting their GPS app to the device10:37
ShadowJKYeah I mean I hope they make a battery for the next device too10:38
RST38hThe battery is the same as 5800 battery10:39
RST38hLet us see if there are higher cap replacements for it10:39
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RST38hheya wazd10:40
wazdRST38h: heya10:40
RST38hOk, there IS a 2200mAh 5800 battery but it is twice as thick and comes with its own back cover10:40
ShadowJKI bought a hugher cap replacement battery, mugen power, for my n800. It was sold as and labeled as 1800mAh, however its true capacity is 120010:40
ShadowJKhigher cap*10:41
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wazdShadowJK: hmm, native n800 battery is 1440 or something10:41
ShadowJKit even reports 1200 through the third pin on it :-) it's kinda funny when it says 1800 on the battery itself10:42
RST38hShadow: Oh well10:42
Stskeepsprobably wouldn't work with BME and 1800? :P10:42
RST38hShadow: That is a Chinese product.10:42
RST38hSts: No reason why not10:42
ShadowJKstskeeps: nah it probably would work, but the battery meter would be useless. after full charge it would assume 180010:43
ShadowJKmy original n800 battery has about 900mAh usable capacity left, but reporting is fixed at 1500 or near that at time of manufacture10:43
wazdRST38h: btw, I think it has a full SD slot10:44
chxso I think I miss a manual or something.10:44
wazdRST38h: of fracking mini SD at most10:44
chxi cant figure out the routing10:44
RST38hwazd: I doubt it, compare the size to the SIM card slot10:44
RST38hwazd: miniSD is more like it10:44
RST38hwazd: No sweat, an adapter makes it work with microsd10:44
chxI gave it a street address and did not really route.10:44
wazdRST38h: I don't understand where's the sim and where's the sd :)10:44
RST38hwazd: the sim is under the battery10:44
wazdRST38h: oh10:45
wazdRST38h: I thought it was on the edge :)10:45
RST38hwazd: It has got easily recognizable surface contacts10:45
ShadowJKchx: I'd try it on google maps website first really..10:45
RST38hor pads, really10:45
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wazdRST38h: then the device is hella small! :)10:45
RST38hwazd: The thing does look like 5800 on the inside10:45
chxShadowJK: but then i do not have gps :/10:46
RST38hwazd: Mmm...The image also shows a bunch of RCA AV jacks, compare to them10:46
Stskeepswazd: devel units were kinda small but in display it felt as usable as a n81010:47
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Stskeepsthey're really a delicious class of devices10:48
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RST38hStskeeps <-- Cpt Obvious =)10:49
Stskeepssometimes yeah10:50
wazdRST38h: I don't like micro-usb, but whatever :)10:51
Stskeepsas long as it's not minisd, i'm fine.10:51
wazdRST38h: I think it would be good for uber-slim device, not for such juggernaught :)10:51
RST38hwazd: well they did leave the power socket, so we should be fine10:51
StskeepsRST38h: they left power socket? i doubt that10:51
RST38hwazd: Some idiot standardized on it.10:51
RST38hSts: Look at the power supply10:52
RST38hSts: Same jack as always10:52
Stskeepsi thought it was a USB charger tbh10:52
wazdRST38h: omg!10:52
wazdRST38h: is that a power supply?10:52
RST38hkilled kenny?10:52
wazdRST38h: I have the same10:53
wazdRST38h: I can measure it! :D10:53
StskeepsRST38h: the FCC report has a microusb charger10:53
RST38hthat's kinda bad10:53
Stskeepswhy? share one port for charging, either through computer or through wall10:53
RST38hgiven that the n810 charger plug is so flimsy, having microusb plug instead may not be that bad though10:53
wazdRST38h: yep, almost everybody has nokia charger10:54
chxwait, WHAT is this??10:54
RST38hSts: USB has a limit on the current10:54
Stskeepschx: what rock have you been hiding under?10:54
chxthats not an N810.10:54
chxStskeeps: dayjob?10:54
wazdchx: welcome back from the Moon :D10:54
Stskeepschx: rx-51 pics leaked :)10:54
chxno shit
RST38hwazd: I think it is the size of HTC Max 4G10:54
StskeepsRST38h: it's fully enough to charge a  tablet10:54
chxso the keyboard is even more fucked?10:54
wazdRST38h: noway, it's much smaller10:55
RST38hSts: Yes but in what time?10:55
chxfour lines was too much?10:55
Stskeepschx: trust me, the keyboard is a lot better than n810 one :P10:55
RST38hchx: this time we have got real arrow buttons10:55
Stskeepsat least if it's the least like the devel units10:55
RST38hchx: so, I am half satisfied10:55
wazdRST38h: 4G is pretty large, larger than n800 screen10:55
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wazdRST38h: cause it has 3.8" screen10:55
RST38hI saw it recently, looked small enough10:55
chx3.8" screen?10:55
chxthe previous news was 3.5"10:56
chxthat's really small10:56
Stskeepsthat's another device they're talking about10:56
RST38hWe are talking of HTC10:56
Stskeepsit's a delicious platform10:56
wazdI'm really wondering bout the screen10:56
Stskeepschx: the extra margin for fingers on that keyboard -really- helps things10:56
wazdIt really looks like it's OLED10:56
RST38hSts: if the Tentacled One makes Nokia guys work with the community and prevents them from fucking up the firmware10:56
RST38hwazd: chances are low for tha10:57
StskeepsRST38h: we can always hack the OS. that's a big plus.10:57
wazdcause every unit with ordinary TFT will show the screen under flash10:57
chxok so where do we people see a SIM card ?10:57
RST38hSts: You do not know that10:57
StskeepsRST38h: they have X-terminal, end of story..10:57
RST38hwazd: it has got some covering...10:57
Stskeepschx: on one of the other pictures10:57
StskeepsSIM isn't really a surprise10:57
wazdRST38h: Unless it's fully opaque :)10:57
RST38hOh yessss10:58
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RST38hwazd: Also I do not see flash being used10:58
wazdHow desperate you need to be to sell Nokia prototypes on forums :)10:59
RST38hJust stupid10:59
wazdRST38h: well flash or bright light10:59
Stskeepswazd: how stupid do you need to be to show the IMEI and MAC up front..10:59
Stskeepsthat thing will be useless as a phone very soon10:59
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RST38hSts: Not really10:59
RST38hSts: There is no way to disable phone by IMEI worldwide :)11:00
StskeepsRST38h: add IMEI to stolen devices list..11:00
Stskeepsah, okay11:00
wazdRST38h: anyway, TFT screen can look hidden under small reflected light only11:00
RST38hSts: What stolen devices list, Sts?11:00
Stskeepsi guess this might just be a EU thing11:00
RST38hSts: Exactly11:00
RST38hSts: In .RU, people have been pushing for the stolen devices list for years now, police too11:00
RST38hSts: Yet, the cell companies do not create one ;)11:01
Stskeepseither way, first SSU and ban from system updates :P11:01
wazdRST38h: - see?11:01
wazdRST38h: the light is much milder, but the screen is clearly visible11:01
Stskeepsthe screen protector probably blocks the light and allows a "oOo" experience when sliding it off11:02
chxwhy the hell cant manufacturers ship with a real screen protector11:03
Stskeepschx: at the point you peel it off it's no longer their fault if something happens :P11:03
chxthe clumsy guys like me would not waste their money -- i ruined hte invisibleshield when trying to put it on :(11:03
wazdStskeeps: yeah, that is one point. But. Are they making a hole for speaker in every protector? :)11:03
Stskeepswazd: that part is a bit weird for me too yes11:04
StskeepsRST38h: it's a bit embarassing that the pictures have been published for half a month already though11:05
wazdStskeeps: well, they were on the fracking indonesian forum :D11:05
wazdStskeeps: i don't know exactly where Indonesia is :D11:05
Stskeepsso, bets on actual announcement?11:06
wazdStskeeps: at least Quim's comments :)11:06
Stskeepsif there was such a complete prototype, and fremantle is in beta2, in july 15 in friggen indonesia, i'm willing to bet nokia world by now :P11:06
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Stskeeps(in september)11:07
wazdStskeeps: First of all, what the hell the prototype does in indonesia? :)11:07
Stskeepsbeats me11:07
chxGSM testing11:08
wazdchx: is there a cell conection there? :D11:08
Stskeepsit certainly points to a more finished product11:08
wazdt.m.o is down11:08
chxI remember companies using rural France and rural Hungary for their modem testing because those were the worst phone connections in Europe11:09
chxi guess this is the same in spades11:09
Stskeepswazd: it's a conspiracy! nokia wants to contain the damage ;)11:09
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Stskeepsseriously, by the fact no threads have been shut down about rx-51, shows that talk.* isn't controlled by some vast conspiracy11:09
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chxso then the N97 mini is not this?11:10
Stskeepsprobably just a n97 mini yeah11:10
Stskeepsthat said, it could be a rx-71 ;p11:10
chxi somewhat cant imagine Nokia bringing out two N97 siblings11:11
chxone down and one up??11:11
chxI will be in Paris, on another conference11:12
chxoh well11:12
chxi bet they wont hand out phones even at Nokia World11:12
johnxmaybe not siblings so much as replacements11:12
chxthe Nokia N97 is not even yet widespread11:13
chxThe Nokia N97 was released in US flagship stores on 9 June 200911:13
chxno way11:14
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johnxwell, I wonder how far out the "mini" is11:15
chxme too11:17
chxi guess we know in four weeks11:17
wazdas it is written, n97 mini has less memory, smaller screen and no d-pad11:17
wazdotherwise it's the same n9711:17
johnxbut it has those arrow keys11:18
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johnxat first I thought people were mistaking it for the rover, but the keyboard is slightly different11:18
chxi guess the only surprise will be the price11:18
chxwe shall see11:18
JaffaStskeeps: Only rabid paranoid whack jobs would've considered Nokia interference in tmo a realistic possibility.11:19
Jaffa(based on Maemo Software/Devices' previous stances)11:19
Stskeepsi know :)11:19
JaffaN97 mini might replace the N97, to better position Rover?11:20
JaffaSeems premature, perhaps. Maybe Harmattan'll be an OS2006-style close-range upgrade announced at launch.11:21
Stskeepsharmattan will be a major overhaul except if they've been working on the apps / desktop for a long time already11:21
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Macermaemo seems like the best thing to use11:23
Maceri need to learn how to use a different wm11:24
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Stskeepsoh, nice catch by someone, it's still in N-series11:28
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* Stskeeps shakes talk.*11:29
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wazdJust wanted to ask if tmo is still down :)11:30
RST38hurgh, a network outage11:30
RST38hwazd: What about that iPhone pic?11:30
RST38hIs it comparison with would be N9x0?11:30
wazdRST38h: you can clearly see the screen edge despite of huge ammount of gloss and polarized layer11:31
RST38hHmmm...I see your point but still doubt it will be an OLED screen11:31
JaffaStskeeps: indeed; but I can't see them wanting to keep fremantle around for too long11:31
wazdRST38h: but it's suspecious :)11:31
Stskeepswe already know screen type, go look at GA's posts and kernel11:31
wazdStskeeps: go look where, tmo is down :)11:32
RST38hwazd: Troll the t.m.o!11:32
Stskeepshe made a blog post11:32
* RST38h is facing a tough job of making EA Linux boot in <10 seconds11:32
RST38hOff JFFS211:32
RST38hAny hints, gentlemen?11:32
wazdStskeeps: link? :)11:33
StskeepsRST38h: use ubifs?11:33
johnxsomewhat related: quake3 on an omap3 looking gorgeous and fast:
infobotit has been said that rx-51 is
Stskeepsah, right11:34
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RST38hSts: yes, I would do that eventually, but in the meanwhile what can I cut from boot process?11:35
RST38hSts: Given that networking and USB support is already gone11:35
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RST38hheya johnx11:35
StskeepsRST38h: write your own custom /etc/rc or something11:35
Stskeepsavoid any kind of console mapping11:35
RST38hHmm...does it take time?11:35
Jaffa /linuxrc is pretty easy to write11:37
RST38hah ok11:37
johnxhey RST38h11:38
RST38hAlthough I think it has already been cut down11:38
johnxRST38h: error checking needs to go :)11:38
johnxmaybe you can get by without udev?11:38
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JaffaNew meme: tmo is down cos Nokia want to stop people discussing RX-51 and they can't control Engadget.11:39
RST38hjohnx: There is part that scans for bad blocks - I am searching for it in the kernel right now11:39
RST38hJaffa: They can't control Engadget? WRooooong11:39
JaffaUnfortunately, the paranoid folk can't discuss it, cos their favourite trolling ground is down ;-)11:39
RST38hThey use Engadget to feed propaganda to the feeble minded!11:39
qwerty12_N810It's back11:39
johnxJaffa: gah. we're gonna have issues with tmo (the forum) vs tmo (that US cell carrier)11:40
johnxnamespace collision...11:40
RST38hjohnx: Could you englighten me on what udev is? I have seen it used but it is not part of the standard Unix, so I have no idea11:40
johnxRST38h: like devfs11:40
johnxor close enough11:41
RST38hSo if I turn it off, I will lose /dev ?11:41
johnxyou get to use a static dev11:41
johnxjust like the kernel does before devfs is up11:41
johnxhonestly though it hasn't caused me much pain, so I haven't had to screw with it: thus I know little about it11:41
Jaffajohnx: TMo or TMob.11:42
johnxwhich some people will get, and "blessed new users" won't11:43
RST38hjohnx: All right, let us see...11:44
Jaffajohnx: true11:44
johnxwhat's a forum without constant naming convention confusion? :)11:45
* RST38h notices how the mood slowly moves toward "let us murder all the newbies" point11:45
johnxI'm just glad there will be something worth talking about besides "when will nokia release it?!"11:45
RST38hHow predictable...11:45
RST38hjohnx: Just create a dozen different threads in Competition subforum and let 'em feed11:46
t_s_otalk seems up and running again now11:49
johnxbut tmo (the cell carrier) was down for me the other day :)11:49
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RST38hOk, I have got an 8 second boot, with MTD off11:53
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ShadowJKrst38h/stskeeps: nokia has lately been making devices that have BOTH standard small nokia charger port AND charging through microUSB12:05
RST38hShadow: Yes, and that is exactly what I have been hoping for :)12:05
RST38hShadow: (and, ideally, switching back to the power jack used in E70, because the smaller version is flimsy)12:05
wazdqgil is on the forum :)12:08
wazd"Shut up, he's gonna talk!" © Forrest Gump :)12:08
RST38hjohnx: Could you explain why it is remounting the filesystem during boot?12:12
RST38hJust before entering runlevel 512:12
StskeepsRST38h: remounting it rw ? :P12:12
RST38hAh, that must be it12:13
RST38hdo I need / mounted as rw though? Is it necessary at all?12:14
johnxjust mount it as rw straight from boot12:14
johnxyou're skipping the fs check anyways, right?12:14
johnxyou want /var and /tmp mounted rw at least12:14
johnxand some systems might assume they can write to /etc12:15
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RST38hbut / I can mount ro?12:18
johnxuhm, if you're not writing to it12:18
RST38hI am not12:18
johnxI assume you can count the apps you're running on one hand here :)12:18
johnxyeah, I had some web kiosks setup that way12:19
johnxdo you have a separate /var and /tmp?12:19
RST38hyes, and you can have my 3 fingers12:19
RST38hNot at the moment but I can split them off12:19
johnxtmpfs :)12:19
RST38hoh I have tmpfs12:19
johnxso symlink away :)12:19
johnxparts of /var might be expected to persist though12:20
johnxso you might have to do some mkdir on every boot12:20
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johnxnot really "parts of /var" so much as "directory structures in /var"12:21
ShadowJKdo you know how much time jffs2 mounting is taking now?12:21
RST38ha lot12:21
RST38hAbout 5 seconds12:22
RST38hI do not have MTD or JFFS2 right now, booting from ext2 on an SD12:22
ShadowJKmust be rather small fs then? :)12:22
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RST38hyes, it is a tiny fs12:22
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RST38hand a tiny little system12:22
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johnxso you have an ro / and you're using jffs2?12:23
johnxare you usually this masochistic? :P12:23
Stskeepsit's RST38h ..12:23
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ShadowJK512meg jffs2 on my sheevaplug takes minutes to mount...12:24
RST38hjohnx: I am currently using ext2 and planning to make it ro12:24
MacerStskeeps: easy mer ui any better than the mer one?12:24
johnxyou can do squashfs and move back to your mtd12:24
AddisonQwerty!  What's up you smoldering volcano of virile manhood?!?!?!  *lol*12:24
RST38hjohnx: My guess is that as long as / is ro, I can just use ext2 on mtd12:24
Macerit is just the ui right?12:24
johnxRST38h: that's ... an interesting idea12:25
Macerblah. it is another gtk ui. heh. i am going to see about getting qtablet going12:25
RST38hTexrat is eventually becoming a troll =)12:26
Macernitdroid seems pointless12:28
Macerno sound or bt12:28
Macerwould be neet to get a hero rom going on it12:29
johnxwouldn't get you sound or bt, so it's pointless :P12:29
RST38hmacer: This HERO ROM: ?12:30
Macerjohnx: yah12:33
Maceri agree12:33
MacerRST38h: hahaha12:34
Maceryeah. thats the one :-P12:34
RST38hWell this one you can get working in no time, on your N8x012:35
Maceris the nit hardware part of the linux kernel?12:35
johnxwhat year is that from?12:36
Maceror is it an unavoidablr circumstance to xfer over some maemo module?12:36
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johnxit's not that simple12:37
Macernot as simple as building a module for the hardware?12:37
Maceris it some ip crap?12:37
Macerfree and open (hardware not included)12:38
Macerim asking because im curious how hard it would be to get all the hardware working in gentoo or something12:38
RST38hjohnx: Could you take a look at and tell if I am disabling these correctly?12:39
Macerwell. let me find the info on installing gentoo on this12:40
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*** t_s_o has quit IRC12:51 it happens, I can probably get rid of var completely :)12:52
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RST38hjohnx: Oh, shit, you won't believe it12:59
RST38hjohnx: I am inserting an SD card from that little ARM system into a normal laptop running Ubuntu12:59
RST38hjohnx: going to /media/disk/etc and looking at mtab there12:59
RST38hAnd getting *the host system* mtab.12:59
johnxthey're called symlinks13:00
johnxMacer: just look at deblet to get an idea13:01
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johnxbut it boils down to a mix between free/non-free and standard/non-standard13:01
johnxif it was non-free and standard it would be pretty simple13:01
johnxif it was free and non-standard it could be hacked13:01
johnxbut it's a little of both13:02
lcukmornin folks \o13:02
johnx mornin' lcuk, slonopotamus :)13:03
RST38hjohnx: Ohreally? :)13:03
RST38hYea, that would explain things13:04
* lcuk squints @ johnx13:04
lcuki think i recognise you13:04
johnxheh :P13:04
lcukhows it goin13:04
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RST38hjohnx: Shit, you are right and I am seeing things13:04
johnxyou were pointing me out in pics just the other day13:04
johnxbe a shame if you lost your memory since then13:04
johnxRST38h: been there, done that :)13:04
lcuki have no memory ever13:04
RST38hRoot just does not want to become ro13:05
* lcuk is a goldfish13:05
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johnxRST38h: hmm? kernel command line13:05
johnxand check your init scripts13:05
RST38hlcuk: No, we won't feed you for free and adore you13:05
johnxlcuk: how goes it?13:05
RST38hjohnx: In the middle of that13:05
lcukit would be good if i didnt spend about 8 hours coding on freshly installed machine only to reboot it and get in a loop13:06
lcukwith my code stuck in it \@/13:06
lcukdamn good job winscp stores the files ive been working on in /tmp13:06
RST38h6 seconds13:07
StskeepsRST38h: parralelize some things? :P13:07
RST38hSts: I am too stupid and lazy for that and the system is too feeble13:07
johnxyeah, I bet serializing things would be faster in this case ;)13:08
lcukdisable useless things, like x11 and ridiculous things like drive mounting13:08
RST38hSts: So, I do it the traditional way, with hammer and sickle13:08
RST38hlcuk: x11? Are you joking? :)13:08
RST38hlcuk: I have disabled NETWORKING two days ago13:08
lcukgoogle are getting rid of it13:08
lcukso no lol13:08
johnxyeah, everyone knows news is better :)13:08
RST38hLike, you know, the WHOLE networking13:09
lcukwhat are you trying to do?13:09
johnxlcuk: which is why they made their own x server?13:09
RST38hlcuk: Make it boot in 0 seconds13:09
lcukboot up before the message self destructs?13:09
RST38hlcuk: And still run a few apps afterwards13:09
lcukjohnx, yeah something like that13:09
lcukheh rst, it all depends on what apps you want to run13:10
* lcuk makes it rain on his tablet13:10
lcukheh no13:11
qwerty12_N810Throwing money at it?13:11
RST38hSome other liquid?13:11
lcukno, i got my particle field working13:11
lcukliqstars2 :)13:11
RST38hVirtual liquid =)13:11
qwerty12_N810Oh, not that definition then...13:11
lcukliqflow as kot said13:11
lcukno lol13:12
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johnxanyways, time for me to get some sleep, or I'll be asleep for half of tomorrow (today...)13:19
johnx'night all13:19
lcukgnite johnx \o13:20
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javispedro4 tmo posts already, not bad.13:23
infobotjavispedro meant: 4 tmo threads already, not bad.13:23
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lcukdare i ask, 4 threads about..13:25
lcukor do i know the answer13:25
LinuxCodethe answer is 4213:27
lcuki already have an rx-44 i mustv missed out13:27
lcukhows you today LinuxCode13:28
LinuxCodegood, now I foubnd out about gnomes sabayon13:29
LinuxCodewhat about you ?13:29
lcukim gettin better13:29
lcukcalmer :)13:29
javispedrolcuk, about the rx-51 photos13:30
LinuxCodeyou werent doing good ?13:30
lcuk<lcuk> it would be good if i didnt spend about 8 hours coding on freshly installed machine only to reboot it and get in a loop13:31
lcukjavispedro, what about em13:31
LinuxCodewhit happens13:31
javispedrotoo many13:31
javispedroand more to come13:31
lcukjavispedro, inside info?13:32
javispedroall of the thread openers with some lame excuse like "oh, I didn't say any of the other 300 posts about it and though I was the first one posting this COMPLETELY MAEMO RELATED LEAK in a COMPLETELY MAEMO RELATED SITE"13:32
lcukor just the collective geek wank about the blurry pics13:32
infobotjavispedro meant: all of the thread openers with some lame excuse like "oh, I didn't saw any of the other 300 posts about it and though I was the first one posting this COMPLETELY MAEMO RELATED LEAK in a COMPLETELY MAEMO RELATED SITE"13:33
lcukbut you are the same13:33
LinuxCodethere will be a device13:33
LinuxCodeit better be linux, or people will die painfully13:33
* lcuk passes linuxcode the tissues13:34
LinuxCodeif its symbian, I will never buy a Nokia device again...ever13:34
lcukif its not linux, it wouldnt be a maemo device would it13:34
aquatixhm, is the only way to change the system font to alter /etc/fonts/local.conf?13:34
lcukaquatix, easier than changing fonts in liqbase ;)13:35
lcukcant you change the gtk theme13:35
* aquatix would like to make the default font just a bit smaller13:35
RST38hLinuxCode: It is going to run Android13:35
aquatixwithout changing the theme13:35
lcukhold it a bit further away from your face13:35
aquatixlcuk: oh, or editing the theme file?13:35
aquatixgood point13:35
lcukhumans have macro zoom for this purpose13:35
RST38hLinuxCode: Several real important former Nokia employees said it will run Android13:35
lcukaquatix, that might work too13:35
aquatixlcuk: :P13:35
LinuxCodeRST38h, hmmm13:36
RST38hBecause Maemo5 is not ready for the release13:36
lcukLinuxCode, if its an open device :) whats to stop that13:36
aquatixRST38h: i bet on slackware13:36
LinuxCodelcuk, that is the issue mate13:36
aquatixdidn't nokia buy slackware recently?13:36
qwerty12_N810aquatix: there's a package of the default themes in 14/12pt sizes on some site somewhere13:36
RST38haquatix: Well, it may run Androidn onSlackware!13:36
LinuxCodeopen and gps and mobile dont go hand in hand13:36
aquatixqwerty12_N810: oh, neat13:36
javispedroit will run PalmOS. end of story.13:36
lcukLinuxCode, of course it does13:36
RST38hjavispedro: has it got a 68000 for that? =)13:37
aquatixjavispedro: garnett or webos? :)13:37
aquatixmaemo on garnett \o/13:37
RST38hOh wait, late PalmOS devices actually EMULATED 68000...13:37
lcuk:D if it does have a 68k, amigaos is deffo on :D13:37
javispedroRST38h, true.13:37
RST38hAnd ran the whole OS on it...13:37
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RST38hAnd prevented developers from coding for ARM...13:37
lcukRST38h, havent you been working on a 68k assembler13:37
RST38hjavis: So, the way I see it, Android is like modern PalmOS :)13:38
javispedroRST38h, they used 68k code in the same way Android currently uses Java bytecode.13:38
RST38hlcuk: I have been working on so much crap lately...13:38
javispedrocause most PalmSource employees now happen to work for Google...13:38
RST38hjavis: May it eventually meet the same fate...13:38
LinuxCodeRST38h, deep down I hope you are wrong13:38
LinuxCodebut that is because I know nothing about android13:38
RST38hLinuxCode: But you KNOW I am right, true?13:38
LinuxCodeId rather see a device that is fully open to any platform13:39
LinuxCodemer, fedora-arm, ubuntu-arm, maemo, whatever13:39
RST38hWell, you can still buy an Altair 808013:39
RST38hIt is kinda retro but gfully open13:39
LinuxCodeRST38h, whats the arch of it ?13:39
LinuxCodearm ?13:39
RST38hAnd it has no mobile part, so AT&T and TMobile have no control over it13:39
RST38hLinuxCode: Sorry, Intel... :)13:39
aquatixqwerty12_N810: hm, only seem to find
LinuxCodewell, see, Id like a 3g able device13:40
lcukwhat about 3d dongle modems - the telecoms people have no control over the greater computer13:40
LinuxCodethen I could toss my mobile phone13:40
LinuxCodeand just have one device I car around13:40
StskeepsLinuxCode: nokia n810 qualifies for that though13:40
RST38hlcuk: Only if you put the dongle into a condom before plugging it in13:40
LinuxCodeStskeeps, for what mate ?13:40
qwerty12_N810aquatix: look on maemo.lancode.de13:40
StskeepsLinuxCode: mer, fedora-arm, ubuntu-arm, maemo, ..13:41
lcukRST38h, mmm its usb, can a usb dongle really get that deep into the machine13:41
Stskeepswe've had some darn insane ports over time13:41
AddisonHey Javis, any chance you could get your big brain cooking on how to get Garnet to read a java file from an SD card?  I know your brain is huge.  :)13:41
LinuxCodeStskeeps, that be good news then13:41
aquatixqwerty12_N810: oh cool, thanks!13:41
RST38hlcuk: Of course it can , the closed software is viral!13:41
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LinuxCodeI think many more people would like such a device13:41
lcukRST38h, which bit of the software, its a modem13:41
RST38hlcuk: So you want to keep your open Linux system closed to closed software hence the condom13:41
LinuxCodeno manufacturer would be wrong with creating a device that supports that13:41
lcuktalk via AT commands dont you13:42
StskeepsLinuxCode: one of the best things about maemo is that you can get rid of it13:42
lcukor modern equiv13:42
LinuxCodeStskeeps, agreed13:42
javispedroAddison, what??  The problem is that the IBM JVM doesn't boot, probably because it depends on PalmOne libraries or some other unknown thing13:42
LinuxCodeStskeeps, Id be very happy if the device kept a kernel or something13:42
RST38hlcuk: Seriously, if it is a USB dongle, you talk via USB messages that MAY (but do not have to) encapsulate AT serial protocol13:42
LinuxCodeif there needs to be closed source rubbish in there, so be it13:42
LinuxCodeas long as I can run my own distro on top13:43
LinuxCodenot ideal, but I could live with it13:43
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StskeepsLinuxCode: any nokia tablet qualifies for that really :P13:44
Stskeepsas in, 770, n800, n810(w)13:44
Stskeepsand as i can see, rx-51 :P13:44
LinuxCodeStskeeps, gps ?13:44
lcukthe problem i have seen with all none maemo distros is end to end support, as much as we moan, most folks still have maemo on their devices13:44
LinuxCodethere was always an issue with that no ?13:44
StskeepsLinuxCode: not really, if you can stand a blob, sure..13:44
LinuxCodelcuk, I have maemo13:44
LinuxCodelcuk, it does what I want13:44
LinuxCodefor now, anyway13:44
LinuxCodeStskeeps, can mer use the gps backend ?13:46
* LinuxCode looks13:46
RST38hlcuk: When all the open source and developer moaning is abstracted away, Maemo is still a pleasant piece of software to use, as a plain user13:46
RST38hlcuk: Makes a decent PDA13:47
lcukyes indeed, makes a decent house pooter13:47
RST38hlcuk: Yep13:47
lcukjust something you can pickup and play with13:47
AddisonSorry Javis, I'm being a tool.  I just don't like giving up on something important, that's all.13:47
RST38hlcuk: So there is no reason to ditch it13:47
LinuxCodeRST38h, main thing for me is syncability between gpe and evolution13:47
lcuk:) i know this13:47
LinuxCodethat is the best part of the N81013:47
LinuxCodefor me anyway13:47
lcuki also like the positioning of mer13:47
lcukwhich should retain the great aspects we enjoy13:48
LinuxCodeStskeeps, I should dual boot mate13:48
LinuxCodethanks for that13:48
lcukbut give developers a bit of a better framework behind the scenes13:48
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javispedroLinuxCode, if that sync only worked for repeating events... or todos...13:48
LinuxCodejavispedro, ?13:49
LinuxCodejavispedro, care to elaborate on that ?13:49
* Stskeeps wonders about libgpsbt and libgpsmgr13:49
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: do you know what the big chance between the gregale ones and the diablo ones were? support for N810 GPS?13:49
Stskeepsi wonder wtf they closed sourced them13:49
javispedroI already did on tmo, but... repeting events spanning dst changes results in half the datebook shifting 1 hour each sync13:50
LinuxCodeStskeeps, gpd chipset maker = nazi13:50
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StskeepsLinuxCode: nah, it's not that bad13:50
LinuxCodejavispedro, what are you using to sync ?13:51
LinuxCodeyeh I use that13:51
LinuxCodewhich frontend for opensync ?13:51
javispedrofrontend? :P13:51
LinuxCodeopensync are libs13:52
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: I would guess so. The changelog suggests no other reason.13:52
Stskeepsoh, you have the changelog?13:52
Stskeepsi should read that13:52
LinuxCodeso what are you using to actually sync13:52
Stskeepswhy didn't i think of that..13:52
LinuxCodemsynctool ?13:52
* Stskeeps gives qwerty12_N810 a cookie13:52
LinuxCodemultisync ?13:52
javispedroI gave a look a few months at what I believe is the source to that, and saw a few things13:53
javispedroit uses XML,13:53
javispedroEvo uses some custom fields,13:54
javispedrothe gpesyncd plugin fails to fill them13:54
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javispedroand chaos ensues.13:54
javispedroe.g. I remember that repeating event end dates are not synced.13:54
* lcuk wonder show sketched calendar entries can be repeated13:55
LinuxCodestill no pipe symbol on the rx5113:55
LinuxCodethat is soooo annoying!13:55
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LinuxCodeits a linux device...damnit....!!!13:56
LinuxCodepipe is a must13:56
Stskeepsremap the keyboard, it's a linux device...damnit...!!!13:56
LinuxCodethen I lose another character13:56
Stskeepsi'm sure you can live without the euro13:56
lcukapt-get install pipe-key13:56
* javispedro can't wait to see how the spanish layout is13:56
LinuxCodelcuk, I made a key in the terminal13:57
LinuxCodebut then you have to bend touch it13:57
lcuksure, to type a | key in your apps, just crack open a console, type this 8 line combo, and bish bash bosh!13:57
lcuka pipe key13:57
lcuk(or you have to reformat your machine)13:57
LinuxCodethey could have made a fn/shift key for £/$/€13:58
LinuxCodethen free up a key for |13:58
lcuknormal users dont use |13:58
LinuxCodenormal users dont use $13:58
lcuksure they do13:58
lcukhow could they tell their mates how much the shoes cost on ebay13:58
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* Stskeeps ponders who could be convinced to do a open implementation of liblocation13:59
lcukdid they come back with answer then sts?13:59
* LinuxCode writes a letter to the Chancellor of the Exchequer13:59
Stskeepslcuk: not yet13:59
lcuk"pelase make currency symbols |"13:59
LinuxCodeDear sir, please remove £, we require the key for a vertical tab ! Thank you13:59
javispedrothey did it.13:59
javispedroPortuguese/Spanish : include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(arrows_2btns)"14:00
lcukLinuxCode, noooo you must get them to use | for currency14:00
LinuxCodelcuk, hahah14:00
lcuki was working my ass off for |3.50 an hour!14:00
lcukrobbing bastards14:00
LinuxCodeI paid my neighbour | 114:00
LinuxCodecommand not found14:00
lcukgotta go14:01
javispedrowtf? only english and polish have all the 4 arrow keys.14:01
LinuxCodek later14:01
LinuxCodewow! 5MP cam!14:01
qwerty12_N810With the complaints about the N810 keyboard, it's hard to believe that they could think of a more retarded layout :(14:01
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: in practice it wasn't that bad though14:02
Stskeepsn810 keyboard looks good but kills my fingers in practice14:02
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javispedrothree key presses for atilde now14:06
RST38hqwerty: the layout may suck but the keys look decent and there are now real arrow buttons14:07
RST38hjavis: who needs atilde? :)14:08
qwerty12_N810arrow buttons are a plus, indeed (I miss the d-pad on my N800), but the layout is kinda letting it down for me. I mean: @ on a space bar. Really...14:09
javispedrowaaaaaah... how easily could they have put at least another column of keys...14:09
RST38hSts: the key is to hold N810 in both hands, on the sides, and type with thumbs, horizontally14:14
StskeepsRST38h: too fat fingers for the upper margin14:14
RST38hSts: this way the typing still sucks, but at least you are not getting capral tunnel from trying to bend your hands14:14
RST38hSts: Can't do much about that one...14:15
Stskeepsyeah, i should become underweight again14:15
Stskeepsi was much more attractive back thne14:15
RST38hSts: At least in your fingers =)14:15
Stskeepsnot that it matters anymore since i'm getting married, but.. :)14:15
RST38hOr get a thimble14:15
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javispedro (Angle < 0) how can this return FALSE when "short Angle" = -32768, start brainstorming for me :)14:18
javispedrospecially only doing that when -O1, and not when -O014:22
Stskeepsjavispedro: solar flares!14:33
javispedro>clickety< >click< there Stskeeps, your gitourius account has now all that free space you asked for! :D14:34
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RST38hjavis: it may be implicitly extendeding it to int, without extending sign14:38
RST38hjavis: Try ((signed short)Angle < 0)14:39
RST38hCould someone tell me why EA Linux mounts / as rw even although I explicitely told it to mount it ro in fstab???14:39
Stskeepsrc item somewhere?14:40
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javispedroRST38h, thanks, but didn't work. it seems like it's optimizing out the whole if () { }, but it does not warn out why.14:42
javispedrowill try again later, to see if solar activity has gone down14:42
RST38hYou have not got any ";" there? ;)14:42
RST38hVFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem).  <=== Could somebody tell me where this message is coming from?14:43
StskeepsRST38h: kernel14:43
javispedrounless -O1 affects the parser, I guess not ;)14:43
RST38hWho exactly is mounting root?14:43
RST38hSts: And how can I make it mount root in ro mode?14:43
Stskeepsit should by standard, afaik14:43
javispedro"ro" kernel parameter14:43
RST38hjavis: really? =))))14:43
RST38hThanks folks :)14:43
javispedrolemme check14:44
javispedroyes, debian lenny puts "ro" by default on grub cmdline14:44
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RST38hyesss, it worked14:46
RST38hrootfs / rootfs rw 0 014:46
RST38h   /dev/root / ext2 ro 0 014:46
Stskeepswhat are you trying to hack? :P14:46
RST38hSts: Trying to set up a tiny super fast Linux config for an embedded consumer device14:47
* RST38h is sorry for all the stupid questions, he has not done this before14:47
Stskeepsmeh, you're probably better off in here than other places.14:47
RST38hWhat is the difference between rootfs and /dev/root anyway???14:47
RST38hSts: So I figured...14:47
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Stskeeps'lo AStorm14:51
Stskeepsre pulseaudio on n8x0, it compiles and all now but segfaults cos it is probably not compatible with latest PA API :P14:52
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* lcuk ponders how to do what he does but without the peripheral problems 15:35
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* lcuk curses15:50
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RST38hShit, now I really want n90016:36
LinuxCodewhy ?16:37
RST38hseen the images16:37
* LinuxCode can think of many reasons to want16:37
RST38hcan no longer claim that it may end up as pos16:37
RST38hbulgarian article on n900 with some new images.16:38
RST38hno new info though16:39
ShadowJKmy n810's gps just guided me to my hotel in bremen16:40
ShadowJKwho said it wasnt practical :)16:40
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LinuxCodelooks like the bulgarian guy stole the pics from there16:44
RST38hand these guys stole pictures from indinesian guy16:44
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LinuxCodethe guy stealing the device, is a moron16:46
RST38hnice view of top buttons though16:46
LinuxCodehe didnt scribble out the imei16:47
lcukso, are nokia actually going to send out lawyers in ninja suits16:47
LinuxCodelcuk, naaa i bet not16:47
RST38hso we have got the power, what looks like +-, a camera shutter, and some little square flush with the surface16:47
LinuxCodelcuk, this happened with the N810 too.... I recall ...leakage16:47
RST38hlcuk: There is typhoon is south east asia right now16:47
LinuxCodeRST38h, hahah16:48
lcukahhh, helicopters grounded16:48
LinuxCodethat is a bit further north mate ;-p16:48
lcuki wouldnt fly a helicopter anytime16:48
lcukand certainly not near the hudson :(16:48
RST38hlcuk: so my guess is the guy still has got time to prepare a noose and find some soap to ease the experience16:48
lcuki dont really want to know, but why soap16:48
lcukand how do you know such things16:49
RST38hlcuk: to make the noose slicker.16:49
* RST38h knows lots of mostly useless things16:49
RST38hAlthough you never know when this stuff can come useful, don't you? =)16:49
lcukhopefully, that is totally useless to you especially16:49
RST38hlcuk: Do you think knowing that VAX instructions may reach 56 bytes is of any use to me?16:50
aquatixi guess this was already posted here?
lcuk:O holy crap aquatix, no16:51
aquatixah yes, that link has more info16:51
* aquatix shouldn't work so much16:51
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* lcuk wants wifi to go faster16:56
lcukits copying 100mb over it and its taking an age16:56
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lcukjeremiah, ping16:59
RST38hlcuk: Are both endpoints using wifi?17:01
lcukits not normally this slow tho17:01
RST38hwire one endpoint17:01
RST38hor at least move the endpoints apart, relative to the ap17:01
lcuknot practical, one is tablet, other has wired port going to internet17:01
RST38hyou can still move the tab;et17:02
lcukits a new experience17:02
lcukyeah i could17:02
lcukRST38h, it used to be so easy - with the adhoc, the connection was stable and reliable17:03
lcuknow there are 2 connections that might break17:03
RST38hnever used adhoc...17:04
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RST38hbut it works via ap as well, you just have to keep endpoints from interfering17:05
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RST38hthey won't break connection (they don't for me at least), but the speed suffers17:05
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lcukadhoc worked better than this or any other wireless ive seen17:08
lcukit did the job for me, but i have requirements for other wifi things now17:08
lcukill go move the router from its faraday cage17:09
cos^what are the best games for maemo currently? 4.5h train trip today..17:18
lcukif you havent played yet17:26
lcuknumpty physics :)17:27
lcukis the new one coming out?17:27
RST38hCrimson Fields are pretty decent17:35
RST38hAnd OpenTTD if you can figure out how to play17:36
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lcukhow do i know what theme i am using17:44
lcukim looking in /usr/share/themes and i know the names of some of them17:44
lcukbut ive got some themes that i dont recognist17:44
lcukthat i would like to remove17:44
lcukbut i dont know whether it will cause heartache17:44
aquatixlcuk: do a dpkg -S on the files?17:45
lcukof course not, what do you take me for, a unix admin!   is that all i have to do?17:46
lcukmind you, that would tell me which package, not whether its in use17:46
aquatixwell, at least it will show you what package it came from17:46
aquatixyou can just look in the "Change theme" dialog to see what you are using right?17:47
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lcukPackage `/usr/share/themes/stuff/index.theme' is not installed and no info is available.17:47
lcuki can get a theme name yeah17:47
lcukand i can see that folder17:47
lcukthat part is ok17:47
lcukits the other folders17:47
lcukthat i want to remove17:47
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lcukbut idk whether it was me removing them yesterday that caused bootloop17:48
aquatixlcuk: oh, you are worried about possible dependencies of your current theme?17:48
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* sp3000 giggles at
sp3000can you spot the fail?18:04
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aquatixthat has to hurt18:05
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* RST38h can't believe that if everything goes as supposed, he will have a new mobile device by october18:05
RST38hOne that can make phone calls and play most video files without stutter18:06
aquatixmy wallet cringes already18:06
sp3000I'd like to see the sw filter that figures out what the purpose of the thumb is, too ;)18:06
aquatixnow i have to buy an rx51 along my new HTC Hero18:06
RST38hWhat would you need Hero for?18:06
aquatixsp3000: the border is too thin to use it this way indeed18:06
aquatixyou can't rest your thumb18:07
aquatixRST38h: make calls? ;)18:07
* aquatix rather likes it18:07
RST38hN9x0 will make calls18:07
wazdaquatix: RX-51 is a phone, halo18:07
aquatixyeah, apparently18:07
aquatixi noticed18:07
aolI'm pretty sure it wont be Nxxx18:07
aolC or X18:07
wazdaol: no, it will be N for sure18:08
StsN810_it says n-series18:08
aquatixaka The Answer18:08
wazdI'd bet N1 or something18:08
aquatixStsN810_: *grin*18:08
wazdN00Bs :D18:08
aquatixthe n0kia18:08
aolright. it does say it18:09
aolsorry :O)18:09
aolall n series phones are N00 when they are born18:09
aol(prototypes say N00)18:09
RST38hIt will be called MAEMOPHONE :)18:09
RST38hAnd the Chinese knockoff will be labelled "Nookia" =)18:10
wazdI'd really name it N1 to set flagship status :)18:10
StsN810_nookia maemafone18:10
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wazdStskeeps: nokla maomefon18:10
aquatixwazd: ick :)18:10
aquatixheh, that's more like it18:11
wazdaquatix: I'm a chineese copywriter in my free time :D18:11
StsN810_so horribly designed all your calls end up on voicemail18:11
wazdtalking about apple tablet, I doub't that it will use iPhone OS18:12
wazdiPhone OS is too restricted to resize and stuff18:12
lcukit will use the os no doubt, but maybe an altered presentation layer18:13
RST38hwazd: It will be the iPhone OS18:13
StsN810_i hope they do. ultimate suck.18:13
RST38hwazd: You are mistaking UI for the OS18:13
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RST38hwazd: All Apple has to do is add nother bunch of "toolkits" for the tablet. They have got so many APIs by now that adding a few more won't make a difference18:13
wazdRST38h: you think it will be ARM?18:13
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RST38hwazd: Either ARM or Atom18:15
RST38hwazd: My guess is that they will be very inclined to use Atom18:15
wazdIn fact it's simple marketing, even if it will be sold for $400 under the contract, it wont be such a mass device as an iPhone -> much much less developers. So it's really bad idea to make brand new platform without the software18:16
wazdAnd I really doubt that iTablet will appear in near future after all. Too blurry niche18:18
RST38hwazd: Neither you nor I know18:19
RST38hwazd: I can comment a little bit on the engineering side, knowing how this stuff is designed, but their marketing strategy is a complete mistery18:19
wazdcapacitive screen is awful for handwritting input. If they will add magnet layer from WACOM for designers and stuff - this thing will cost like a bentley18:19
RST38hYou do not even know if it will do handwriting18:20
StsN810_newton handwriting?18:20
wazdRST38h: tablet without handwriting -> lolz :)18:20
RST38hNotice how Apple *never* follows the same marketing strategy as the other guys18:20
RST38hSo we have no idea how they are gonna position the iTablet18:20
wazdRST38h: I think it's one of the main tablet features - to note something quickly18:20
RST38hRumors say that it is going to be "close and personal" iTunes video player18:21
RST38hwazd: To you but not necessarily to apple18:21
wazdRST38h: too expensive for such a toy18:21
RST38hwazd: You do not know the price either18:21
RST38hwazd: BTW, I am pretty sure those metrosexual apple fans will swallow anything up to $60018:22
wazdRST38h: well, an iPhone costs bout $700. You can roughly calculate :)18:22
RST38hwazd: They may ship it with Apple BT keyboard and call it a netbook then18:22
wazdRST38h: I can imagine collaboration with wacom, but doubtly18:22
chxup to $600?18:22
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RST38hchx: for a tablet, yes18:22
chxyou underestimate the reality bending force coming from Cupertino18:23
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chxhavent read the recent news that pretty much all $1000+ computers are now Apple?18:23
RST38hchx: above $600 you would have to call it a laptop18:23
RST38htablet is not a computer18:23
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wazdIf I was Steve Jobs (which I'm not, I repeat :D ) - I'd sell my soul to work with Wacom18:23
chxLook, Apple produces fashion items. Yes you can call on it but most importantly it's a fashion item18:23
chxWould you judge a Versace suit based on the price?18:24
RST38hchx: yep18:24
chxDont be silly18:24
RST38hchx: You miss one little thing18:24
RST38hchx: You are absolutely right about the fashion part of course18:24
wazdchx: in our world, it's the pice that makes things cool18:24
lcukRST38h, you are russian aren't you?  or do you just live there18:24
RST38hchx: But for every gadget there is a typical price range18:24
RST38hlcuk: it is complicated18:24
chxbut they , again , do not sell gadgets18:25
lcukok, but are you a "use a pencil, vs 600million space pen"18:25
RST38hchx: So, those poor suckers would not have a problem paying twice the price but paying thrice the price is gonna be a problem18:25
RST38hlcuk: definitely so18:25
wazdhas anybody seen dity cheap thing that looked cool? :)18:25
StsN810_q5? :P18:25
lcukyeah - pebbles on a beach are cheap18:26
RST38hwazd: Yes.18:26
lcukand useful18:26
RST38hwazd: Have you been introduced to the beautiful world of SCREWDRIVERS? :)18:26
wazdStskeeps: It has some faults too, to be honest18:26
wazdStskeeps: especially that SD CARD sign :D18:26
RST38hchx: So, to sell iTablet at >$600, Apple would just have to call it a different name18:26
wazdNice things are expensive not because they are expensive to produce or something18:27
RST38hchx: Call it a notebook, and your range suddenly goes to $200018:27
aquatixa personal entertainment and mobile computing device?18:27
aquatixbut something more terse18:27
wazdThey are expensive cause they need to stand out of cheap ugly things18:27
wazdthat's the market now18:27
RST38hwazd: One market, anyway18:28
wazdbut soon we'll change it! :D18:28
RST38hwazd: But have you seen BBK PMPs?18:28
wazdRST38h: nope18:28
RST38hwazd: (aside from the fact that touch buttons make them unusable) they are pretty beautiful18:28
RST38ha moment18:28
wazdRST38h: I run in fear when I hear BBK :D18:28
RST38hwazd: why? it isn't bad18:29
wazdRST38h: they even bought some design in artlebedev studio as I remember18:30
RST38hwazd: The edge is aluminum18:30
wazdRST38h: but UI design mostly18:30
RST38hwazd: Yes, and there is a story about it :)18:30
RST38hwazd: But their V3 PMP is absolutely beautiful little object18:30
RST38hdirt cheap too18:31
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wazdRST38h: well, I was always telling that two rectangles is not the design :)18:32
wazdRST38h: but yep, it's not the worst PMP around :)18:32
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wazdRST38h: I bet they've stolen it somewhere, cause the font is wrong18:33
RST38hof course18:33
RST38hbut it is normal - they source these device from elsewhere in china18:33
RST38hso you can have both cheap and beautiful18:34
wazdRST38h: well, it's not that beautiful like "wow, oh my god" :)18:35
RST38hneither is iphone18:36
wert613'ello everybody.18:36
wazdRST38h: in iPhone you can see a designers touch in every stroke18:36
wazdRST38h: even speaker grill is symetrical18:37
RST38hwazd: You can see Steve Jobs with a huge toilet plunger standing behind the designer =)18:37
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wazdRST38h: yes, sometimes Jonathan starts to fuck up, like with iPhone firstgen's 3.5mm hole, but mostly it's very cool18:38
RST38hwazd: That was Steve going out to get some coffee18:38
wazdRST38h: I bet Steve has nothing on industrial design18:38
RST38hwazd: He does.18:38
RST38hwazd: To confirm that, you should simply look at the whole lineage of Apple products starting with Apple][18:39
RST38hwazd: Their stuff was *always* very carefully designed18:39
wert613The aesthetic beauty of the iPhone doesn't carry completely to the iTouch, if only because the loss of thickness gives the back an odd curve.18:39
wazdRST38h: well, he can tell what's hot and what's not, but I bet Jonathan Ive does everything by himself and the crew18:39
RST38hwazd: And just in case you do not believe it is Steve, look at Quadras (produced when Steve was gone) and compare them with NeXTs18:39
wazdRST38h: steve is Art-director :)18:40
RST38hwazd: Well, Steve is the CEO, big cheeses do not do actual design18:40
RST38hwazd: But he appears to control the process very tightly18:40
cos^is there any c64 emulator with virtual keyboard available yet?18:41
wazdRST38h: anyway, the iPhone is the only thing I like in current Apple lineup18:41
wazdRST38h: everything else is very boring18:41
RST38hwazd: Keyboards are nice, aren't they?18:42
RST38hand the MacMini/AppleTV18:42
GAN800Talk is hilarious.18:42
wazdRST38h: MacMini/ATV are super boring :D18:42
GAN800Capacitive and OLED.18:42
RST38hGAN: Don't scare them off =)18:43
wazdRST38h: wired kb is fine18:43
GAN800We already covered the touchscreen and LCD after the first kernel release. . .18:43
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RST38hwazdL BT kb looks just the same minus the numeric keypad and the wire18:43
wazdRST38h: I'm really shocked why they haven't made same wired keyboard but wireless18:43
RST38hwazd: No idea. I like the look of both, but they both suck as keyboards18:44
wazdRST38h: no, it has a laptop layout which suck18:44
RST38hwazd: The old clicking IBM keyboard is my ideal18:44
wazdGAN800: I think it would be OLED too :)18:44
RST38hwazd: Very comfortable to type on, and you can use it as a blunt weapon in a pinch18:44
wazdGAN800: cause I can't see the screen :)18:44
RST38hGAN: wazd says the screen behaves like an OLED in direct light at these photos18:45
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GAN800wazd, it's not.o18:45
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GAN800Sony transflective panel.18:45
wert613RST38h: I've got one, I love the typewriter-esque sounds and heavy-gague steel.18:45
wazdGAN800: then where's the screen? :D18:46
RST38hwert613: At my old job, we bought a bunch of them when UMD.EDU was selling surplus equipment18:46
wazdGAN800: it should be clearly visible unless it has opaque coating on it18:46
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wert613RST38h: Put them with the shotguns in case of zombie attack?18:47
GAN800wazd, where's the front-facing camera?18:47
GAN800Can barely see that and it's well distinguished.18:47
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RST38hwert613: Well, you can use them to resolve technical disputes between software engineers as well =)18:47
GAN800wazd, photos are too poot to try to draw those conslusions.18:48
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infobotGAN800 meant: wazd, photos are too poor to try to draw those conslusions.18:48
wert613RST38h: Nyehehe18:48
RST38hGAN: Question18:48
GAN800Besides, we HAVE the LCD model #18:48
RST38hGAN: At the top side of the device, there is something that looks like a shutter button and close to it there is a little rectangle flush with the surface18:48
RST38hGAN: Any idea what it is?18:49
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GAN800RST38h, just saw that. Weird.18:49
RST38hLight sensor?18:49
RST38hDefinitely NOT power18:49
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wert613RST38h: I see it now, the Mjöllnir of the IT God18:50
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GAN800Light sensor seems unlikely there.18:50
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RST38hwert613: I thought that was the original SUN optical mouse?18:50
wazdRST38h: it shows how many frames left in camera :D18:51
RST38hwert613: You could direct it at users who scattered thinking that it was a Deadly Red Laser (tm)18:51
wazdRST38h: analog :D18:51
RST38hwazd: =)~~~~18:51
wert613RST38h: Perhaps a motorola brick?18:51
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RST38hwert: Naah, too specialized18:51
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Mekinfrared port?18:52
wazdyou know what, I think it's really black coating on the screen18:53
GAN800wazd, looks like the 5800 screen.18:53
wazd <- look at the scratch top - left from nokia logo18:53
GAN800Mek, I'd buy that.18:53
wert613RST38h: You could always swing one of those little brown mac pizmos18:54
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lcukwazd, that looks like someone tried to slide a finger in to remove18:54
lcukthe cover18:54
wazdlcuk: yep18:54
lcukbut then put it back for the pics18:54
RST38hMacs are for graphics designers18:54
wazdlcuk: so it's the cover18:54
* lcuk noticed that18:54
wert613Ah specialised wepons18:54
lcukit looks like a temp delivery cover18:55
wert613I see a FPS forming...18:55
* lcuk sees rain18:55
wazdGAN800: so you can't see front facing camera :P18:55
lcukand universes18:55
RST38hOh well, we will know soon enough18:55
* lcuk rages at his bastard computer18:55
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RST38hGAN: There should be a camera and a light sensor. The one is on top, the other is somewhere at the face18:56
wert613RST38h: The tech guys against the world, also known as "destroy all aliens"18:56
wazdRST38h: light sensor can't be on the side18:56
RST38hwert: Why stop at aliens?18:56
RST38hwazd: why?18:56
wazdRST38h: cause it sould measure how much light falls to the screen, not to the side18:56
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RST38hHmmm...probably true...18:57
wert613RST38h: You take up your heavy hardware of choice and batter the general public18:57
GAN800RST38h, camera is near the Nokia logo. You can see it in one shot.18:57
RST38hGAN: Then the rectangle is a light sensor after all?18:57
lcukarent all LEDs also rudimentary LDRs ?18:57
RST38hWhat is LDR?18:57
lcukie, you could dual wield the normal led18:57
lcuklight dependant resistor18:57
wert613RST38h: While driving anything from a Smart car to a Shelby GT18:58
RST38hAh...No, not LEDs18:58
lcukyeah actually :P18:58
RST38hLEDs is more like a zener diode18:58
wert613RST38h: Think, GTA - Redmond, WA18:58
lcuksomeone did a touch sensor using LED array18:58
lcukusing the backscattered light from its neighbours or something18:58
RST38hlcuk: I can think of better LDRs :)18:59
lcukso can i, but in the absense of a distinct element18:59
wert613RST38h: And for the creative players, GTA - Cupertino, CA18:59
lcukit could be combined18:59
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RST38hwert: Can I please have the Dungeon Keeper instead?19:00
wazdGAN800: more than that, you can clearly see that protecors hole doesn't fit actual speaker19:00
wazdGAN800: it's moved to the left on that shot19:00
wert613RST38h: heros of might and hardware19:00
RST38hlcuk: Well, it has got np junction open to the light, so it should kinda work, yes19:00
wert613RST38h: Baldurs call center19:01
wert613RST38h: True crime; EE department19:02
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RST38h"A bizarre July 20 prank ended with a hotel worker actually sipping from a urine sample provided by a guest at a Homewood Suites in Kentucky."19:03
wert613Bizzare is the right word.19:04
wert613"would you like some apple juice young man?"19:04
RST38hno, it was way more bizarre19:05
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RST38hCanadian Police vs The Anonymous19:06
RST38hOk, out for a stroll.19:08
wert613I think this proves that skype is evil.19:08
javispedrono, it proves computing is evil.19:11
wert613I'll do you one further.19:11
wert613Sociopaths are evil.19:11
javispedropeople are evil.19:11
wert613Parents are evil.19:12
javispedromother nature is evil.19:12
wert613Father time is evil.19:12
javispedro~burn mother nature19:12
* infobot pours gasoline all over mother nature, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze19:13
* wert613 creates a rift in time19:13
javispedrosee? infobot is evil :)19:13
wert613infobot is God?19:13
wert613I think that rift damaged more than expected.19:15
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wert613Ow... Neck-ache.19:20
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GeneralAntillesStupid Amazon reviewers.19:34
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GeneralAntillesYour opinion about the whole Iranian thing has nothing to do with the phone you're reviewing.19:34
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wert613GeneralAntilles: Their opinion about the whole Iranian thing has very little to do with anything.19:37
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wert613GeneralAntilles: At least that's MY opinion ;P19:39
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wert613The silence is deafening.20:06
lcukwell that topic is a bit far off on a dev channel20:07
wert613Isn't it though?20:08
* javispedro loves gcc bugs20:11
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wert613Bugs are tasty20:12
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* javispedro downloads cs2007q3, hoping it's any better20:14
* wert613 sighs and dances in the wind20:15
woglindejavispedro for what?20:16
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woglindejavis from the arm kernel site20:18
woglinde2.14. Known toochain issues. [14 July 2009] The CodeSourcery Sourcery G++ Lite 2007q3-51 toolchain (gcc version 4.2.1) is broken with -fomit-frame-pointer. Without frame pointer, gcc tries to be smart and optimise the tail call. However, it gets it terribly wrong.20:18
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slonopotamuswho uses 4.2.1 now? 4.3.2/4.3.3 is the current choice20:19
javispedrothe code for branch "Angle < 0" is not generated20:19
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RST38hjavis: so, a gss optimizer bug after all?20:23
javispedroseems so, unless I'm being a total idiot.20:24
RST38hweird, have not seen this in a while20:26
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javispedroyes, gcc bug. gcc 4.2.1 fixes it.20:31
javispedro(aka fremantle toolchain)20:31
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wert613Could someone build me a radio shielded box with a magnetron connected to an electromechanical timer so I can resonate the water in my food?20:34
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wert613Darn... I really wanted that burrito...20:39
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Luddekwert613 no but you could borrow my microwave oven20:42
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wert613Luddek: You have one of those new-fangled devices?20:43
Luddekhmm its about 15 years old...20:44
Luddeki mean, yes very new-fangeled20:44
wert613All I have is a miniature computer with a hi'res display and slide-out keyboard D=20:45
wert613The communists are restricting my technological advancements!20:47
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Macerthere used to be a spot on itt that showed how to boot maemo from teh sd manually20:48
Macerand i can't find it20:48
infobotmethinks boot-sd is
Macerok. that was awesome :)20:50
Macerheh. thanks20:50
Macerpb has some install script but i don't trust install scripts20:50
Maceri'd see some "penguin bait's fucked you shop -$6,000" on my bank acct20:51
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wert613Stupid little piece of dirt on my display won't come off.21:04
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javispedroI don't know wha's with that source file, but all it does is trigger gcc bugs21:11
javispedrowas probably written by a black mage or something equally awful21:11
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RST38hjavis: Or someone who only used x86? =)21:13
woglindejavispedro the test is useless21:13
woglindeso gcc is optimize this away21:13
javispedrowoglinde, why?21:13
woglindefirst you test if it is < 021:14
woglindethen you test if it is -33333321:14
javispedro* -32768 (aka 0x8000)21:14
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woglindeso you could imeedialty test if it is <21:14
woglindedidnt read it wrong21:15
woglindeseems I am at sleep21:15
javispedrodon't worry woglinde, I'm hoping it's some error of mine21:16
woglindejavis by the way what you are doing with the dsp?21:16
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javispedrothat's not the n810 dsp but the SNES dsp ;)21:16
woglindeuh the snes21:17
* RST38h shudders at the mention of SNES DSP21:18
woglindejavis hm you could try to unboxing the ifs21:18
wert613Hum ;P21:18
RST38h...and we haven't even got to 65816 have we? :)21:18
Maceris there any way to use the standard linux fdisk on the tablet?21:18
Macerlike a repo with it or something?21:18
woglindejavis is not nice but may work21:18
woglindemacer I think you can use fdisk when its connect to a pc21:19
RST38hjavis, any chance to see the latest OpenTTD in extras? ;)21:19
Macerwoglinde: i don't have a linux box21:19
Maceronly opensolaris boxes21:19
javispedrowoglinde, thanks, i fixed it by upgrading  to 4.2.1, but will remember if the need to submit it the autobuilder arises :)21:19
javispedroRST38h, it's on extras-devel. unfortunately some random new problem with cities not being clickable appeared.21:20
infobotsomebody said fdisk was a partitioning program.21:20
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infobotCurses based disk partition table manipulator for Linux21:20
Macerthat's all i get infobot? :)21:20
woglindecompile fdisk on opensolaris21:20
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Macerif i could put a build env on the tablet21:21
Macerthat would be great21:21
Stskeepsmer.. but yeah21:21
* Macer stares at Stskeeps 21:21
Stskeepssure, sudo apt-get install build-essential21:22
VDVsxI know it's old, but seen it again and can't stop laughing, OMG:
MacerStskeeps: does that work?21:25
Maceron the n810?21:25
Maceri can like.. use make and gcc?21:25
MacerE: Couldn't find package build-essential21:25
StskeepsMacer: no, on mer.21:25
Maceri'm using maemo :-P21:26
VDVsxI'm just imagining a similar video with the maemo community council :P21:26
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Macermer made me want to throw my tablet into the wall21:26
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wert613*gasps at the thought*21:27
Macerwell. i think the problem with mer is that it is trying to be cross platformed21:27
Macerinstead of focusing on one piece of hardware.. which is good i suppose.. but... :)21:27
qwerty12_N810Macer: parted and cfdisk are in extras-devel.21:27
StskeepsMacer: bullshit. most of the hw has problems cos we can't preinstall it into a image due to legal issues.21:28
Stskeepsfor the stuff we do have access to, it works pretty well21:28
rkirtiMacer: thats the whole point and benefit of Mer - being cross-paltformed21:28
MacerStskeeps: and you will constantly run into those problems on every new piece of hardware you wish to support21:29
Macerso now the devs are like spokes. where you are moving very limited resources into getting one thing to work on one piece of hardware while other developers work on other things :)21:30
Stskeepsnow, you're misunderstanding some things.21:30
Macerit is a very left handed methodology21:30
Macerinstead of one thing at a time you are spreading resources to solve multiple problems with less resources than are available to do so21:31
Stskeepsfirst off, the UI code, APIs, and everything, is by definition cross-platform. it'll view and act in same way everywhere. the stuff we've been given will act like that everywhere, no matter the hardware21:31
Stskeepssecond, the juicy stuff like network management, bluetooth, input methods, we've had to work our asses off getting to work, as we can't have it.21:32
Macercan't have it?21:32
Stskeepsyes, it's closed source and we don't have the fremantle ones.21:32
Macerok :)21:32
Macerand using closed source premade bins doesn't work?21:33
Stskeepswe don't have them, and the ones we have is built for ARMv721:33
Macerwow that sucks21:33
Macerwhy are they closed?21:33
Macer:) if you don't mind my asking21:34
Stskeepsnow, let me return to what we're actually doing, because I want to knock this discussion to the ground once and for all.21:34
* Macer hides under a rock21:34
GeneralAntillesMacer, differentiation.21:35
GeneralAntillesicd2 pretty much totally kick's network-manager's ass.21:35
Stskeepswe have a mission to go ahead and reconstruct Maemo. we have to remake a shitload of stuff - they're closed, differentation, and fix many broken packages.21:35
Stskeepsit's not a fremantle backport as such, if it was, we could spend 9 months on it with project dying 3 months after21:35
Maceri still don't understand why they would have it closed off21:36
StskeepsMacer: it's very bloody simple - being ahead21:36
Stskeepsand i don't blame them for this21:36
javispedrothat's unfortunately true. most people who want backports tend to use them as "trials", then decide the next device is good for them.21:36
Stskeepswhat we are doing with Mer is giving you a very powerful OS, development environment and putting it in the hands of the community21:37
Stskeepsit's a bloody hard process we've done for soon a year now21:37
Stskeepsbut it's been worth it. we can do really really neat things.21:37
MacerStskeeps: so the main goal is a real open OS for portables?21:37
Macerinstead of the psuedo open stuff?21:37
Macerwith closed network and bt managers?21:37
Maceryou're going to have to write your own license :)21:38
Stskeepswe want to have a platform that's fully open, but we do respect there might be added bonus's (apps, codecs, etc) on top of the open system21:38
Stskeepsthe problem with Maemo was that the 80% open source are very difficult to have working properly and user friendly without the remaining 20%21:38
javispedrobtw Stskeeps, do you also think icd2 kicks NetworkManager ass?21:39
Macerwow that sucks :)21:39
javispedroor are fine with NM?21:39
Stskeepsjavispedro: if connman gets sane i wouldn't mind it.21:39
MacerStskeeps: sounds like things are only going to get worse if you decide to take a qt route with it21:39
StskeepsMacer: but what you're seeing around you is the hard work of the community for a year, and something that will last long after the N810 is dead21:39
javispedrowhat I mean is that I built an icd2 stub when testing my wpa_supp library (and to do some more -- maybe borderline legal-- things you imagine)21:40
javispedrocould expand it21:40
StskeepsMacer: we could have done a fremantle backport and be done with it, and practically have wasted our time21:40
StskeepsMer is a fresh new approach to the Maemo platform.21:40
Stskeepsand while the UI isn't perfect, mostly because we don't have friggen open source icons for many things, the foundation is bloody solid21:41
Macerare you not allowed to use hildon also?21:41
Stskeepsof course, but fremantle icons are closed source21:41
Maceroh wtf :)21:42
Stskeepseven translation strings21:42
Macerthat totally sucks21:42
Stskeepsso, once we're done, we have a OS that's really in the hands of the community21:42
Stskeepsand Nokia has been helpful with a lot of things.21:42
Macerwell. i guess some poor guy was stuck in a room making icons all day21:42
Stskeepsbut i get really pissed off when people say Mer is shit. my usual answer is "so what did you do to help it along the way?" - I can't ask that with you obviously.21:43
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: on that note: do HildonFileChoosers still look bad compared to the GTK+ one? It'd be nice if "Hildon = True" could finally be set in bluetooth-sendto. ;)21:43
MacerStskeeps: it is hard to help test it when you can't really do the things you need to do in order to do so21:43
Macerlike wifi tethering on an adhoc phone21:43
Stskeepsadhoc phone is a problem with NetworkManager21:44
Stskeepslook up the ubuntu bugs for it21:44
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: yeah, currently :/ wazd's working on replacement icons21:44
ShadowJKadhoc phone must use shitloads of power21:44
MacerShadowJK: it does on the phone yes ;)21:44
StskeepsMacer: also, why not just use PAN? :P21:44
MacerStskeeps: no pan support in android yet .. it's a G121:44
ShadowJKon the other hand, my e75 has been burning a hole in my pocket on bluetooth too, except when they conspired and switched roles so that n810 began burning hole insteaed21:44
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: ah cool. I'd give wazd vodka but I'd be arrested :(21:44
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MacerStskeeps: but see.. you say "look for an ubuntu bug"21:45
javispedrointel described the NM situation fine:
Stskeepsit's based on ubuntu!21:45
Maceri know :)21:45
Stskeepswe inherit all the problems with it21:45
Macerbut to be "based on" and to "be" .... mer loses its identity21:45
Maceris it maemo.... ubuntu.. or its own thing?21:45
Macerto tell a user simply "check ubuntu's forums out"21:45
Stskeepsdoes it matter what it is? it's the power of ubuntu with the mobile ability of maemo21:46
Stskeepsand that's what makes it powerful for developers, hackers and users21:46
MacerStskeeps: but if someone has a problem with maemo.. they ask it in relation to maemo even though it is based on debian21:46
javispedroMacer, I'm not a user ;)21:46
Stskeepssure, and if someone has a problem with GTK we send it upstream21:46
Macerit is rare someone says "check debian's forums"21:47
Stskeepsthere's no black and white in this matter21:47
ShadowJKeverything has an upstream :)21:47
MacerShadowJK: then that is not a new and fresh approach21:47
Macerthat is augmentation21:47
Stskeepseverything's augmentation in computer science.21:48
MacerStskeeps: yeah i suppose so ;)21:48
* javispedro wonders what Nokia has in store for icd.21:48
wert613Augmenting what Stskeeps?21:48
Stskeepsbut compared to Maemo, development for Maemo, we're lightyears ahead.21:48
Stskeepsin the areas we wanted to try and see if we could improve21:48
MacerStskeeps: yes i suppose that is true in regard to a portable device OS21:48
MacerStskeeps: i'd have loved to see you pick up the qtablet development though21:49
Macerinstead of sticking with a gtk based ui for mer21:49
Stskeepswe are going to go the Qt way, but the stars have to change a bit.21:49
Macerand once the hardware issues are ironed out i'm sure it will be a wonderful OS21:49
Stskeepsqtablet is a demo.21:49
lcukbut that is not ready itself and that would require much more21:49
Stskeepsit's cool, but it is the same as changing the WM for Mer.21:50
MacerStskeeps: i thought you said qtablet went stale21:50
Stskeepswhich we are actually doing21:50
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lcukthere are people working on it, and there is work ongoing towards getting qt stable and ready, and then when the qt upstream is ready it should be usable21:50
Macerlcuk: the qt based stuff looks awesome21:50
Stskeepsand we already have Qt "for Maemo" in our repositories21:51
Macerwhat can i say. i'm a sucker for qt21:51
lcukqt has a lot of features and i am impressed by the library21:51
Macerlcuk: sorry. i'm just a user. to me.. i think it just looks pretty21:51
lcukbut theres the language barrier and the fact its always a compromise and you have to worry about 4 os's21:51
Macerit has a better look and feel than the gtk based stuff21:52
lcukit shouldnt have, they both use native widgets i believe21:52
lcuklook maybe21:52
StskeepsMacer: i'm not a gtk fan for what it's worth - the majority of work done in Mer is not what people see when they touch the display.21:52
lcukbut thats themability21:52
Stskeepsbut it's what makes it possible to have the thing above21:52
Macerlcuk: that's what a lot of people say21:52
Stskeepswe have 166 packages, each carefully fixed, ported, developed if need be21:53
Macerbut for some reason it just looks and feels different21:53
lcukmacer, whilst there is great power with qt, you still need to be very careful in what you use or your almighty powerful app runs and feels like shit21:53
Macerlcuk: isn't that any app? ;)21:53
lcuknot really, at least with gtk its hard to link bits together lol21:54
* Stskeeps goes sit in the couch and drink coffee21:54
Macerlcuk: that is like saying.. it's ok if it's broken.. it still runs and fast enough ;)21:54
* lcuk made a funky particle system and is surprised by how well it runs21:54
lcukespecially so on my 81021:54
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lcuki made the x41 sweat for a while21:54
* javispedro is watching SMKart at nearly 55fps (no zoom though)21:54
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javispedroSuper Mario Kart! :)21:55
Macerwhich one?21:55
javispedrosnes, of course21:55
lcukhows audio?21:55
javispedrono audio :P (yes I know, cheating ;) )21:55
Macern810 has a powervr?21:55
lcukyeah but not usable21:55
lcukwhy would i need powervr tho21:55
lcukin original liqbase i had a particle field with 2000 elements21:56
lcuki had to reduce that number though because now i am having them interacting with other pieces21:56
Macernot usable because of hardware or software?21:56
Macerlike.. did they unsolder a connection .. or just have an IP issue?21:56
lcukdrivers, i thought you knew this21:56
javispedroalso, I can't enable the gcc optimizer in yet another file or I get garbled graphics21:56
Macerlcuk: yeah... but i just had to confirm21:56
* javispedro wishes qgil luck for that :)21:56
lcukquim said there might be something in the pipeline21:57
Macerjust sucks to be sitting on a gpu that you can't use21:57
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* Macer pictures real 3D based desktops on his N81021:57
lcuki keep thinking about what can be roped in as a coprocessor21:57
lcukto help with rendering21:57
lcuki have a real3d desktop running on 81021:58
Macerfigured someone would have reverse engineered some drivers by now21:58
javispedrothe IVA thing might be more useful to you21:58
Macerlcuk: oh?21:58
javispedro, lcuk, don't it ?21:58
lcukwell, scale invariant lol with nice zooming21:58
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javispedroI once heard you use XV?21:59
lcuki keep pondering how much hardship it would be to have completely rotatable sketches21:59
lcukyou heard right21:59
lcuksuch a long time ago now that video22:00
Macerlcuk: wow that is pretty22:00
lcukits evolved even more :)22:00
lcukand more since the latest vid again lol22:00
Macerand this without the powervr huh?22:01
lcukcompletely software rendered22:01
Macerwonder what you could do if you had access to it22:01
lcukhence my question up there22:01
Macerthat is very nice looking though22:01
lcukbiggest slowdown for me realistically is image loading and saving22:02
lcukand lardman mentioned about a libjpegondsp project22:02
lcukor something similar22:02
qwerty12_N810lcuk: Do you still save to ~/.liqbase/somewhere?22:02
Macerthat thing looks like it would make your n810 burn a hole in your leg if it were resting on it22:02
lcukqwerty12_N810, with what - photos or sketches22:02
qwerty12_N810both, I guess :)22:02
Macerbut yeah.. that is a very nice ui you have going there22:03
lcuktechnically now its in multitple places22:03
lcukim in the middle of a transition to database22:03
lcukso, the sketch editor is saving as files22:03
lcukand then they are being sucked into a database22:03
javispedrodamn focus stealing, sorry :P22:03
lcukMacer, burn a hole in leg?22:03
lcukqwerty12_N810, the database is vital to allow images to be saved onto the webserver22:04
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: is maemo-launcher fuckzored in Mer?22:04
lcukand hence back to my other machines22:04
qwerty12_N810lcuk: ah, cool22:04
lcukand the sketches from the webserver are available as svg22:04
lcukwhich gets over peoples concerns about random file formats :)22:05
lcuknew stars fucking rocks :D22:05
lcuki thought it wouldnt run well on my 810 after i came back from x4122:05
lcukbut its sweet22:06
qwerty12_N810I see idiots these days complaining that they'd rather have a flash YT video when given an animated gif :)22:06
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: hmm? shouldn't be22:06
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: i presume you're talking 0.1522:06
lcukqwerty12_N810, i can selectively block flash animations.  with a clicker to run it if i want.  with ani gifs, i have to disable everything22:06
lcuki agree with them22:07
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Tomaszd sent me and when I added maemo-launcher support, I checked that it worked on my tablet22:07
qwerty12_N810lcuk: I'm not talking about ads, just when one wishes to willingly see content22:07
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: i would assume it would have died before then , - he's running :Devel, so i wouldn't hold it against Tear if it crashes :P22:07
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: problem is probably that tear's vala is patched or something :)22:08
Stskeepswe'll see22:08
qwerty12_N810Tear uses plain vala22:08
Macerextras-devel still has a few new things on it22:08
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: not according to bundyo22:08
qwerty12_N810The one in Extras22:08
lcukqwerty12_N810, thats the problem, i cannot stand animated content - so i disable it22:08
lcuki cannot read a page if there is something flickering at the side22:08
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: well, at least according to tomasz who says that, .. :P22:09
lcukso now, on my machine animated gifs are ALL blocked22:09
* Stskeeps grabs a cookie22:09
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: I build Tear fine using Jaffa's build of Vala22:09
lcukto unblock for a single one, its a real pita22:09
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: alright - shouldn't wonder me mer is slightly fucked atm though :P22:09
qwerty12_N810Which I understand doesn't have anything special done to it22:09
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qwerty12_N810I'll tell him to build with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS="nolauncher"22:09
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Macerbut no cfdisk :22:10
javispedrothe whole maemo-launcher thing should have an escape pod. something like maemo-invoker --just-launch-in-this-process. wonder how difficult it is...22:10
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qwerty12_N810Macer: apt-get install it22:11
qwerty12_N810I never made the section user/ which means it won't show in Application Manager22:11
Macerok thanks22:11
qwerty12_N810javispedro: agreed :(, I had a fucker of a time trying to ltrace browser :\22:11
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javispedroi am yet to read m-l source code but I guess it works by maemo-invoker sending the so path to the maemo-launcher daemon via socket, with maemo-launcher forking, dlopening the file and just branching to it, in the process getting most of the glib or gtk static initialized only once22:15
Macerqwerty12_N810: error opening terminal: xterm.22:15
javispedroso maemo-invoker could possibly replicate that part of maemo-launcher, with no fork22:16
qwerty12_N810apt-get install ncurses-base22:16
qwerty12_N810^ Macer22:16
qwerty12_N810Thanks, I should add that to deps22:16
Macerah crap. sorry. :)22:16
Maceri didn't even think to install ncurses heh22:16
qwerty12_N810No, don't be, it's my fault for assuming that it comes by default :*22:16
javispedro(and is the glib/gtk static initialization so costly maemo-launcher actually helps performance?)22:16
qwerty12_N810(Not a bad assumption, but this is Maemo. :))22:17
Stskeepsjavispedro: yes22:17
Stskeepsjavispedro: maemo-launcher helps a lot22:17
javispedroah, it also probably helps replace prelinking22:17
infobotjavispedro meant: ah, it also definitely helps replace prelinking22:18
Maceri'm still getting this thing ready to copy to the SD22:18
Stskeepsthere's a bit of discussion if diablo is already prelinked or not22:18
Stskeepsi get conflicting answers to it22:18
qwerty12_N810The images are, but not SSUs22:18
Maceralrighty. it's working. thanks qwerty... i figure in another day or so i'll have maemo back on the SD22:19
Macerhave to decide how much space to give it and all that fun stuff22:19
Macerwhat's up with this "internal" memory on the n81022:20
Macerthis 196MB they have going on :)22:20
Stskeeps256 mb internal NAND flash, 2gb internal SD22:20
* Macer checks to see where his went wrong22:21
Macerah crap!22:21
qwerty12_N810Porn is quite big these days ;P22:21
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Macerno. i think i chose internal by accident during a mer install22:21
Stskeepsthen repartition it22:21
Maceri am .. with cfdisk ;)22:22
Stskeepsremembered to back up your maps? :>22:22
Macernaw.. didn't really need them  yet22:22
Macerconsiddering i didn't have my sd when i was using it22:22
Stskeepsmaps are preinstalled to the internal sd22:22
Maceroh.. well. that sucks22:23
qwerty12_N810Fuck me.. fucking tmo wants me to delete PMs before I can send any22:23
javispedrobtw, does anyone know if the 2009 wayfinder maps are coming?22:23
qwerty12_N810I thought it was all about Nokia Maps now? ;)22:25
javispedrodunno, was hoping for some goodness22:26
javispedrodo Wayfinder licensees also get this treatment?22:26
qwerty12_N810I think I read on tmo  that it was "effectively discontinued"22:28
Macerwell. didn't know the internal was 2G :) that's pretty awesome22:28
Macercan put maemo on that and keep my full 16G SD22:28
Macer2G for maemo is way more than the average human should need heh22:29
* Macer is reminded of 640K22:29
qwerty12_N810In that case, you'll love the next tablet...22:29
javispedro32 GiB is too much. I would be happy with 8 and -$5022:30
javispedrowell, maybe -$50 is too optimistic...22:30
qwerty12_N81032GB is too much for something with an <something>SD slot22:30
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qwerty12_N810I only like to see such high amounts on something where the brightspark designing it thinks no form of expansion will be needed22:31
javispedrobut If left to choose between SD slot and 32 bazillion bytes of internal storage, I would still choose SD slot. Apple users would choose the internal storage, though.22:31
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Stskeepsplenty of porn to fill in 32gb..22:31
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Stskeepsseriously, they're going for the personal mobile device with those sizes22:32
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Stskeepsfrom personal computer to personal device to star trek communicators22:32
Macerthe 16G C6 was like...22:32
Maceri thought that was cheap22:32
wazdI'd choose 32Gb built in and SD slot22:32
wazdoh wait :)22:33
Macerwell. i get 2G built in and an sd slot ;)22:33
lcuki want over 9000 gb22:33
esaym153anyone know of a good spectrum analyzer22:33
Macerlcuk: agreed22:33
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esaym153that would install in the 81022:33
esaym153you know, to see sound coming in from the microphone22:33
lcuklardman was looking at that last week afiak22:34
lcukhow fast do you want it updating tho22:34
ProteousOVER 9000?!?!22:34
lcukframes a second!22:34
Macerhm.. does the internal sd in an n810 do spreading?22:34
Macerlike if i were to make a linux swap on it.. would it totally destroy one section of it?22:35
Proteousjust like me, with a butter knife22:35
Proteousoh, nm22:35
lcukdunno macer22:35
lcukpeople say yeah22:35
lcukbut i have my doubts22:35
qwerty12_N810Proteous: gonna get rid of your N97 in "suspicious circumstances" and claim insurance to get money for the next tablet? :P22:36
lcukits not suspicious circumstances, he will know exactly what happened22:36
Proteoushah, you can read my mind22:36
ProteousI was thinknig of switching to Tmobile anyway, just annoyed that I couldn't do 3G on my n97 there...22:37
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ProteousI wish someone would make a phone that had a nice dpad for playing emulated console games22:38
Proteousthat's all I ask22:38
lcuki just wish there would be enough good games designed for maemo :)22:39
lcukthat you would use to best of tablets abilities22:39
Proteousall of them are working on iphone apps...22:39
* lcuk draws a galaxy22:40
lcukand watches it spiral into a black hole22:40
qwerty12_N810There's "big money" to be made. I can't help but laugh everytime I hear a sob story of how ones iPhone application isn't bringing 'em riches22:40
Stskeepsthe 20.000 fart apps? :P22:41
lcukwhen did anything "new" and innovative actually come out for iphone22:41
qwerty12_N810I am rich22:41
lcukand no i dont mean c&p22:41
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lcukok you got me on that one22:42
* lcuk skulks off22:42
Stskeepslcuk: the pedometer22:42
Stskeepsaka the sex offender map22:42
lcukdistance from pedos one, or footsteps22:42
lcukthats not new tho is it22:42
lcuki saw maps mashups a while ago22:43
lcukwhen the info was first released22:43
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lcuksame with crime stats22:43
Stskeepsyeah, but it's not the same as when you're walking through them22:43
Stskeepsor next to someone's house22:43
Stskeepswith a GPS :P22:43
lcukwhat? you dont carry your desktop around with you?22:43
Stskeepsi do carry my n810 around :P22:44
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wazd <- cool game :)22:45
lcukthat sort of thing will be cool on n90022:46
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konttori__Proteous: I have to say that I so agree with you that I want a freakin phone with dpad that does not suck22:48
lcukffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu wazd22:49
lcukit got harder lol22:49
lcukhiya konttori__22:49
wazdlcuk: 4 is just impossible :D22:50
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lcuki could cope with 222:50
wazdlcuk: i got 102 and my brain exploded22:50
lcukbut then when i had to use my other hand as well i went to pieces22:51
* wazd trying to put it back into the head22:51
lcuk72 only22:51
wazdlcuk: it really would be good at n900, you can add accelerometer :)22:53
wazdlcuk: and voice control :D22:53
wazdfor absolute nerds :)22:53
Macerabiword support cups printing?22:54
Maceror does anything in maemo ? :)22:54
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Macerthe only real computer ever made was the gibson from teh movie hackers with its jacob's ladders22:55
Maceri think i need to mod a case to make jacob's ladders go through it22:55
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Macerlike some glass and wiring should do the trick22:56
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wazdlcuk: saw that :)22:56
lcukhow many particles do you need to give a decent effect22:57
wazdlcuk: oh my, that's hilarious :D22:58
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ProteousGUI interfaces solve all the crimes nowdays, I don't even know why we have police anymore...23:00
qwerty12_N810Who else would be there to go trigger-happy with tasers?23:01
wazdProteous: I create GUI in visual basic for every task23:01
RST38hProteous: to tase people of course23:02
lcuki create liqbase modules with visual basic23:02
RST38hBut I am sure UI people work on this one as well23:02
Macermaemo.. is actually pretty awesome :)23:02
* lcuk has an export from visual basic form to liq* screens :)23:02
lcukshame i cant use the code really.  yet23:03
qwerty12_N810Grr, there's a legit excuse to use a taser23:03
* konttori__ has photoshop file to python sdl compiler that can only be run on a human computer.23:03
lcukkonttori__, ive been converting more of my vb stuff to maemo23:04
RST38hkonttori: can one put a virus there?23:04
konttori__I heard there is a flu-type of a virus out there that can affect badly protected systems23:04
Macer~clone to sd23:04
* infobot takes out his Cloner-2000 and starts making dozens of duplicates of to sd!23:04
Macer~boot from sd23:05
* infobot inconspicously shuffles over to get a straight line across from sd to the window above the dumpster, takes aim, and punts from sd out to where he belongs!23:05
infobotrumour has it, boot-sd is
Macerthat is the only one ? that one uses some script23:05
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Macerwell.. let me stare at the script to see how it works23:05
wazdlcuk: high score is 62223:07
wazdlcuk: We have non-humans on Earth :)23:07
lcukyou are not human23:07
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wazdlcuk: that's not mine thank god :)23:07
lcukyou will tell us anything!23:08
qwerty12_N810wazd: that site doesn't like you, really: "It seems that some people are experiencing problems with WASD" :P23:08
Macerqwerty12_N810: is there a howto that shows you how to manually do it?23:08
Macerlike loading the modules etc? like. i want to use ext323:09
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wazdqwerty12_N810: don't mess with wazd :D23:09
wazdthis game is quite a good training for FPS players :)23:10
qwerty12_N810Can't think of any of the top of my head. I used the most anal-retentive method to clone...23:10
qwerty12_N810wazd: hehe :D23:10
* lcuk replaces wazd with a,e;23:11
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qwerty12_N810Macer: modules are in /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/ - you'd want to insmod mbcache, jbd, and ext3 for ext323:11
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lcuk(incase you are wondering23:11
Alex_IonescuHi -- is there a way to obtain the latest snapshot of maemo? The "Snapshot" button on garage doesn't seem to do anything, and my "git checkout" took 4 hours, and then hung...23:11
qwerty12_N810The mention of the word "DVORAK" is a personal insult to me.23:12
* RST38h promptly dvoraks qwerty1223:12
* qwerty12_N810 bashes RST38h over the head with a keyboard23:13
Macerinsmod: cannot insert '/mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/ext3.ko': Unknown symbol in module (-1): No such file or directory23:13
RST38hIBM keyboard or the flimsy modern type?23:13
Alex_Ionescu(if anyone has an existing git checkout of qemu-maemo, could you perhaps tar it up for me, thanks)23:13
Macerjbd damnit :)23:14
qwerty12_N810RST38h: take your pick :)23:14
lcukAlex_Ionescu, most people i know here just grab binaries of the qemu23:14
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lcukim not sure ive ever seen anyone actually build it on their own23:14
Alex_Ionesculcuk: i've built it myself from the latest source drop, but it's from May23:15
Alex_Ionesculcuk: and some of the fixes I need are recent23:15
lcukAlex_Ionescu, everyone i know apart from you here just grab binaries of the qemu23:15
Alex_Ionescuoh, is this not a development channel for maemo? :/23:16
Alex_Ionescusorry if I made a mistake..23:16
RST38hHmmm...VAX just went to 33+VUPS23:16
lcukbut thats a general emulator23:16
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Alex_Ionescuwhat do you mean by "general"? there's qemu-maemo which is a special build23:16
lcukthat happens to run maemo inside it isnt it23:16
Alex_Ionescuowned and maintained by the maemo devs23:16
lcukfair enough, never actively heard about it being worked on like that23:17
Alex_Ionescuahh I see23:17
Alex_IonescuProject Admins:23:17
Alex_IonescuJuha Riihimäki23:17
Alex_IonescuRiku Voipio23:17
Alex_Ionescuare they ever around here?23:17
Stskeepssuihkulokki is at least23:17
Stskeeps(i think he's still on vacation)23:18
Alex_Ionescuah okay23:18
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Alex_Ionescuwell maybe could someone try the "snapshot" button from
Alex_Ionescumaybe it's just my browser :/23:18
Alex_Ionescui'd appreciate it23:19
lcukit just goes to a bare template page23:20
lcukwith no download23:20
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Alex_Ionescuyou should haev a "shortlog" of commits23:20
Alex_Ionescuand each of them with a "snapshot" button at the end of the row23:20
lcukhave you tried actively grabbing the git itself23:20
lcuki have that23:21 took 4 hours and froze :/23:21
Alex_Ionescuand "snapshot" is a bare page, right?23:21
Alex_Ionescuthat's what i see too :/23:21
lcukno download as expected by the caption23:21
Alex_Ionescuthanks for trying :)23:21
lcukin format: tar.gz23:21
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lcukis that the same project but using the git interface23:22
RST38hHehe, got an unpredicted effect: the laptop went critical, real hard to hold in hands and the fan is spinning like it is a vacuum cleaner23:22
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lcukcos that offers a download23:22
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Alex_Ionesculcuk: but the download is from May23:22
RST38hAh, Intel and its CPUs...23:22
lcukRiku Voipio23:23
lcukMerge branch 'master' of /home/nchip/public_html/qemu...   master23:23
lcukcommit | commitdiff | tree | snapshot23:23
Alex_Ionescuoh wait, the tar works here23:23
lbtlcuk: hey23:23
Alex_Ionescuthanks dude :)23:23
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Running the BeOS installer in VMWare caused my fan to go crazy...23:23
lcukhiya lbt \o23:23
lbtused liqbase v0.00000001 for notes this w/end23:23
lbtneed to upgrade...23:23
lcuksketches should be compatible :)23:23
Alex_Ionescujust what I needed  :D23:24
lbtis the latest on the repos?23:24
RST38hqwerty: I would avoid VMWare like plague, in general23:24
lcuklatest packaged yeah, the playground as released though isnt feature complete vs liqbase original that is in extras23:24
lcukhence the videos saying "im bringing everything in"23:24
lbtbut sketches is good?23:25
lcukpencil sketches are - in original liqbase theres colors and shapes, here in the released version there are just pencil lines23:25
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Heh :) I was feeling nostalgic and certainly didn't feel like resizing my partitions :)23:25
* lcuk had my reasons for this for now23:25
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lbtthat's fine - I just need my notes from today23:26
Maceri told bootmenu.conf to time out for 15 seconds and it still just flew right past that23:26
RST38hqwerty: May try installing to a usb drive...23:26
Macerlike i have to hurry up and hold menu23:26
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qwerty12_N810RST38h: I don't have any :\23:27
qwerty12_N810Macer: you have to set the default device, read the README in the initfs_flasher.tgz23:28
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Macerqwerty12_N810: that screws up the time delay?23:30
Macerok. i'll take a look at it in a minute. at least the menu works. i still have to copy maemo over to the "internal" sd23:30
qwerty12_N810No, the time delay only takes effect if it is set23:30
Maceroh. ok.23:31
Maceri do have it set though23:31
qwerty12_N810You ran cal-tool?23:31
Maceroh. no.. not yet23:31
Macerbut i just flashed it23:32
Macerwith that in my bootmenu.conf. figured it would just pick it right up23:32
Macerthe menu looks good. i just need to do some more stuff to the flash maemo and then copy it over.. which i have to do by reading the script and seeing what it does23:32
Macersince i wanted to use ext3 :)23:32
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Macerseriously there has to be a better way to do this :)23:50
Maceri remember there being a step by step on how to copy this to the sd23:51
GeneralAntillesMacer, I linked you to it on the wiki. . . .23:51
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MacerGeneralAntilles: that one uses a script23:52
GeneralAntillesMacer, just use it, then.23:52
GeneralAntillesIt works fine.23:52
Macer:) but i want to see how it is copied over and reading the script is a pain23:52
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Macerwell... i am looking for the one where it shows you step by step how to do it manually23:55
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Macerlike the only howto uses this friggin script23:58
Macerwhat happeend to the old "DIY" howto? :)23:58
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