IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-08-04

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GAN800wazd_, ur boring. What now? :P00:09
qwerty12_N810Fight, of course00:10
wazd_GAN800: thanks, General Obvious :P00:10
wazd_qwerty12_N810: If I'll try - I can hit him thru the Earth :)00:11
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RST38hmooo all00:13
RST38hI think we should have a flame war00:13
wazd_RST38h: heya00:13
RST38hhey wazd00:13
RST38hLet me think what good incendiary topic I can come up with...00:14
wazd_RST38h: no flamewars until I get a new kb plz :)00:14
RST38hDon't you all think that MacOS X would be much better if it were Java-based thin client to ?00:14
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RST38hI mea, isn't Web 2.0 and the cloud all the rage nowadays? =)00:14
erik____RST38h: nice troll :)00:15
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wazd_I'm Walt Mossberg. Shut up! xD00:16
RST38hah shit DOW is 9200+00:16
woglinde haha00:16
RST38hwazd: You did read that story about goths killing and eating an emo?00:17
RST38hwazd: And crucifying his pet hamster head-down?00:17
qwerty12_N810The poor hamster :(00:17
RST38hyes, I felt sorry for the rodent as well00:17
RST38haccidental collateral damage in this story00:18
wazd_RST38h: no O_o00:18
RST38hwazd: Your mention of Mossberg somehow reminded me... =)00:18
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mavhcthat mossberg puppet was great00:21
wazd_RST38h: I think I don't want to know why :)00:21
RST38hguess so...00:21
* GAN800 wonders about fullmoons.00:21
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RST38hin other news, everybody seems to have frozen waiting for iTablet00:22
GAN800Freaks are out in force today.00:22
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RST38hshow, show me00:23
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wazd_so, any kb except mbp and akb?)00:25
* RST38h has got an apple keyboard. The only apple product in the house00:26
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wazd_RST38h: 70$ is too much for me(00:27
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RST38hwazd: and it isn't very comfortable either, really00:28
wazd_I've found some local crap called o-click :)00:29
RST38hwazd: for full size kbd, I would go with a logitech really.00:29
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wazd_RST38h: "almost apple)00:31
RST38hit is no apple00:32
RST38hand, as I said, apple looks nice but isn't very comfortable00:32
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wazd_the only things i need are playback/volume controls and low profile00:33
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wazd_oh, and full layout00:34
lcuk2i dont think ive ever used any of the special keys on my kb00:35
johnsqwazd_: cherry evolution stream00:35
lcuk2i actively rip out any reset/poweroff buttons from the kb00:35
wazd_lcuk2: I use'em, so I ask for them :)00:35
lcuk2reasonable enough00:36
lcuk2power keys are bad - you reboot your computer by dropping something on em or pickin it up wrong00:36
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wazd_lcuk2: If i'd make a keyboard someday - Ill leave em on the kb but make'em flush and slightly hard to press00:39
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lcuk2wazd_, old computers used to have a little reset switch/rocker on the backside of them00:41
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RST38hPC XT had a huge red tumbler switch00:43
lcuk2on the keyboard?00:44
RST38hno, on the system block itself00:45
wazd_johnsq: can't find 'em here(00:45
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johnsqwazd_: don't know where "here" is :)00:46
wazd_johnsq: I mean for sale)00:46
wazd_johnsq: russia00:46
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wazd_btw, long time ago I had an idea bout kbs00:48
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wazd_to make a wide thin monochrome display above multimedia eys00:49
wazd_cheap and handy00:50
lbtwazd_: hi00:55
lbtdo you have that montage of Mer devices to hand?00:55
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wazd_lbt: hooah00:57
wazd_lbt: yep00:57
lbtgreat - I'm prepping for the talk next weekend00:58
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wazd_lbt: look kinda old, I canfill em with new shots tomorrow00:59
lbtwe need the SmartQ7 and O2 joggler on there too now ;)00:59
wazd_lbt: oh00:59
lbtoh, well if you are then I'm not kidding after all!00:59
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wazd_lbt: I just need a keyboard for this, I broke mine(01:00
lbtwell, that pic is great... If you manage another then I'll use that01:01
wazd_lbt: screen kb on zaurus = fail)01:02
lbtthe SmartQ one is bad too - no arrow keys01:03
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GAN800RST38h, wazd_, http://www.pckeyboard.com01:06
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wazd_RST38h: oh my)01:13
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RST38hgan: keyboard porn!01:19
wazd_GAN800: that's too brutal xD01:20
qwerty12_N810Would "hardcore" be defined as the plugging in/out of the keyboard? =)01:20
wazd_GAN800: Wish I could see em attached to mac))01:20
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gomiamok, weird problem: I just lost an option in the power-off menu (the one about normal and connectionless mode). Has anyone suffered this too and/or knows a way to solve it?01:24
gomiamand no, "turning it off and on" IT Guys' style didn't work either.01:25
gomiam(and yes, I looked it up but did't manage to write a good enough query on Google or something, which is an event in itself)01:26
qwerty12_N810gomiam: 1. check that /etc/systemui/systemui.xml contains the option to toggle and 2. make sure that /var/lib/mce/mode contains the mode that you are in01:26
* gomiam checking...01:27
qwerty12_N810On my tablet, /var/lib/mce/mode says normal and that is correct. As I am IRCing from my tablet, I'm not inclined to find out what it says when the tablet is in offline mode. ;)01:28
gomiamXD me neither, I'm tableting too01:28
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gomiamlots of kudos to you, qwerty12_N81001:30
gomiamthat was it01:30
qwerty12_N810Cool :)01:30
gomiamnow, if someone made a package to install the aireplay-able wifi module or the wpa one with PAP, I couldl live happy. I guess I'll have to muddle through ;)01:32
gomiamanyway, I'm in bed ans I should be sleeping instead of chatting. Thanks a lot for your help.01:34
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RST38hHehe, Gizmo wisened up on Google Voice callouts01:37
RST38hThey now limit calls to 3 minutes and charge for them01:37
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pupnik_i'd like gizmo video calls on linux01:44
lbtI'd like a chocolate covered strawberry01:50
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GAN800wazd_, I got them to make a custom one for me.02:30
GAN800with Apple keys. I have pictures around somewhere.02:30
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hachiI have a nokia n810, I'm trying to figure out how you can flash it without MS windows05:10
hachiI got rid of windows many years ago05:10
hachitrying to erase the whole thing though05:10
hachieveryone says the only way is to reflash the device05:10
pupnik_i reflash using linux05:11
hachiI can't even find links to a firmware image05:12
hachithe main link on is to a .exe file05:12
LinuxCodehachi, hold05:12
hachithank you05:19
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hachithat doesn't appear to have cleared out the 'memory card'05:24
hachias the device calls it05:24
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pupnik_hachi: it shouldn't wipe anything off either internal 2GB flash or the miniSD card05:31
hachiI would like it to05:31
pupnik_why, the OS is not on the 2GB card05:31
hachiI'm giving the device to a friend05:31
hachiI had ssh keys on it05:31
hachiI'd like to make sure there isn't a copy of things I want to keep secure going to someone else05:32
pupnik_cat /dev/random to the device or smth05:32
pupnik_or copy big files over to the card05:32
pupnik_fill it up05:32
hachiI'm not worried like that05:32
hachiI'm just trying to get the device to delete all files05:32
hachithe fast delete05:33
hachiI'm not being paranoid, I'm just trying to clean the device like it just came from the factory05:33
pupnik_rm -rF /media/mmc2 then05:34
pupnik_rm -rF /media/mmc2/* rather05:35
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GeneralAntillesOr reformat it.06:09
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* Pavlov reflashes his n81006:10
GeneralAntillesPavlov, it was cruel enough the first time.06:11
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GeneralAntillesWe're going to have to criminalize that or something.06:11
GeneralAntilles(bunch of perverts in here . . .)06:11
Pavlovall i really want is an 80211a radio in here06:12
GeneralAntillesn seems likely in the RX-51, but no a. ;)06:12
Pavlovyeah, our building is basically screwed on the 2.4ghz spectrum06:12
GeneralAntillesYeah, lead walls here. I have 4 APs covering about 2800 sq-ft.06:13
Pavlovi've got an AP above my desk06:13
Pavlovdoesn't really help:(06:13
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xnt14I just noticed b-man xD06:56
xnt14~seen FireFox1606:56
infobotfirefox16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 26d 23h 29m 56s ago, saying: 'damn :('.06:56
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Macerthere is a green lantern movie06:59
Macerand this one is white06:59
t_s_oi think i know of at least 2 white green lanterns, and 1 black...07:05
xnt14im back07:12
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Luddek1Fuck yeah! I have SSL on ettercap07:38
Luddek1... sorry, just excited, worked long07:39
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DarwinSurvivor_has anybody else had problems with the screen not turning off on their n810?07:46
DarwinSurvivor_mine's been doing this for about a month now and i can't figure out why07:46
Luddek1tried reflashing?07:49
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DarwinSurvivor_i was trying to avoid that07:51
DarwinSurvivor_it took a while to get msn/yahoo/icq all working natively with the chat app07:51
DarwinSurvivor_i know some apps can keep the screen lit (video apps, etc)07:51
DarwinSurvivor_is there any way to find out what (if any) apps are holding the screen on?07:52
Luddek1I don't know. You could try to kill some process and see if the problem still occur07:53
DarwinSurvivor_i guess that might work07:54
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* RST38h moos evilly08:34
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aquatixmorning all10:08
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: some patches to your drag lock patch: , ,
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Stskeepswell, and your own patch included obviously :P11:14
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Stskeepsnp, from saju11:15
* qwerty12_N810 thanks saju too, if he ever sees this11:15
RST38h...speeding the development a 20-foot, 30,000-lb bomb known as Massive Ordnance Penetrator. This weapon is intended to annihilate underground bunkers and other hardened sites (read: long-range missile or underground nuke development) up to 200 ft. underground....11:17
StskeepsRST38h: have to build a proper arsenal for hitting satan's underground lair!11:18
qwerty12_N810The gconf schema file is the same as the one I did :P11:18
Stskeepsah, i think the path may be different11:19
Stskeepsyours is in /applets or something11:19
qwerty12_N810But, but, but, I like my path11:19
qwerty12_N810It was well chosen. But, anyway, *shrug*11:19
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RST38hSts: After old good Saddam went home, who is the next designated Satan? =)11:20
StskeepsRST38h: obama, obviously11:20
RST38hThat would defeating11:20
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JaffaMorning, all11:24
JaffaStskeeps: "pipes of garage.*"?11:24
StskeepsJaffa: my bad, i meant the mer feed :)11:24
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Stskeepsyay, i'm on planet :P11:30
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JaffaStskeeps: Ah. Not easily: the problem is that it links to Nabble which doesn't do it. I wonder if I could make the article link any URL which is seen in the subject. That might work11:34
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VDVsxdneary, ping12:53
dnearyVDVsx: pong12:53
VDVsxdneary, Kenneth (Qt webkit) asked me yesterday to put their presentation in day 2, if possible, because he has to go to the Qt dev days after the summit12:54
dnearyVDVsx: No problem for me12:54
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VDVsxdneary, btw, by the chat in tmo, I understood that we will probably ditch the round table, since a similar session will be held on the first day, so we will need to make a little arrangement on the schedule, or find a good session for the last slot of the summit :)13:00
dnearyVDVsx: Yeah, I got that13:01
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slonopotamuswhat do you think, will be closed as WONTFIX? :)13:50
javispedroregional limits? and it's not already WONTFIX? :)13:51
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RST38hslonopotamus: Depending on CAl availability in Harmattan, it will be either WONTFIX or FixedInHarmattan13:55
slonopotamusjavispedro, yeah, different wifi power limits based on country. and open-wlan-cal sets them wrong in uk. i'd like to set them to correct value, but don't know how to identity  country without docs for pp_data cal block.13:56
slonopotamusRST38h, i'm more than sure that personally I won't have any problems because of wrong power limits in uk tablets. but someone might.13:57
slonopotamusRST38h, so, in order to make everyone happy, i'd like to set then correctly.14:01
* slonopotamus also wonders how nokia will react to rewritten bme :)14:02
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RST38hApple iTablet. The end is near!14:18
javispedrowe're all doomed!! doomed!!14:18
RST38hRun for your lives!14:18
javispedrofortunately, this time I predict it'll fail.14:19
javispedroer... is this channel logged, isn't it ;) ?14:19
RST38hjavispedro: Apple product can't fail, not right now =)14:19
mgedminyes :)14:19
RST38hI hope it will whip everybody else into making imitations which isn't such a bad thing14:20
javispedrowhat I would like too see is how Apple mkt dept. will convert 10'' Tablets into non-geeky things14:20
RST38hHey, Nokia imitated iTablet *before* iTablet launch! =)14:20
javispedrowhen they did that with PDAs/smartphones I wasn't surprised, cause I was using a PDA14:21
RST38hjavispedro: That I can tell you by reading my crystal balls14:21
javispedrobut currently 10'' tablets are too geeky even for me14:21
javispedroso I'm going to be surprised for sure :)14:21
RST38hjavispedro: It is a huggable TV for watching iTunes content, and reading too14:21
javispedroyes, as it appears in geeky-movie 2001 odissey14:21
RST38hWill be marketed as an uber PMP14:22
RST38h+ it will be shiny, Americans absolutely love shiny14:22
JaffaX-Fade: ping14:22
X-FadeJaffa: pong14:23
JaffaX-Fade: How's the promotion thing going? Should I be able to promote my Python based ap with "OR"?14:23
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X-FadeJaffa: That should work. It is just that the actual promotion doesn't work, due to issues in Jeremiah's tool.14:24
X-FadeJaffa: Once he fixes that, actual promotion will start.14:24
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X-FadeJaffa: Can you try again?14:27
JaffaX-Fade: That's what I wondered ;-)14:29
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JaffaX-Fade: Clicking "promote package" still no worky. Gives and "Server Error 500: Dependency python2.5-osso could not be found in the database"14:30
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X-FadeJaffa: Quick lunch, after that I'll check what it going on. (Flushing caches now)14:34
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lizardoJaffa, X-Fade : a wild guess: maybe all dependencies need to be promoted prior to the package ?14:36
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lizardoJaffa: BTW, the package name is now "python-osso" in fremantle , even though there's a Provides: for python2.5-osso14:37
lizardoJaffa, X-Fade : another possibility is that the promoter is not looking at the Provides: field14:37
lizardoJaffa: also, are you still affected by or did you manage to workaround it somehow?14:38
Jaffalizardo: #4782 is still an issue.14:39
Jaffalizardo: X-Fade says that the "python-osso | python2.5-osso" should work in the promotion interface; and any required packages are also pulled up with it14:39
lizardoJaffa: because, looking at the comments on that bug, I'm confused: it seems solarwolf is not affected, even though I could reproduce you issue on scratchbox14:40
Jaffalizardo: I've worked around it by checking /etc/maemo_version for '5.0' and disabling OSSO functionality14:40
Jaffalizardo: Yeah, I saw a comment saying solarwolf isn't affected14:40
Jaffalizardo: I can't check at the moment (no sb), but could it be the difference between "org.maemo.horizon" (dotted) and "solarwolf" (undotted)?14:41
lizardoJaffa: I didn't have time to investigate that further, but will do so in the following days14:41
Jaffalizardo: thanks14:41
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lizardoJaffa: just tried, both "org.maemo.horizon" and "solarwolf" segfaults on my sbox/x8614:43
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Jaffalizardo: Odd.14:45
JaffaWell good for your debugging. gdb FTW14:46
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lizardoJaffa: and printf :)14:46
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Jaffalizardo: :)14:46
VDVsxJaffa, horizon isn't python ?14:46
JaffaVDVsx: Attitude (nee Horizon) is Python.14:46
JaffaVDVsx: <-- that "Horizon"14:47
VDVsxJaffa, I know, I know :)14:47
VDVsxlizardo, btw, did you considered a presentation at the maemo summit ? like RAD with pymaemo or something that show off pymaemo14:47
* Jaffa confused then :)14:47
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lizardoVDVsx: some of the PyMaemo team thought about it , but we don't have concrete plans yet... One of us plan to make a presentation about python/C++ binding generation, not hardly related to PyMaemo, but still :)14:50
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VDVsxlizardo, personally I would prefer a 'less bindings' focus session14:52
lizardoVDVsx: OTOH there will be a mini-course on PyMaemo on the PythonBrasil 2009: (in portuguese...) if anyone plans to go there :)14:52
* Jaffa would love to see a session on PyMaemo, demonstrating how powerful it can be (if it can be ;-))14:53
VDVsxlizardo, interesting but I'm a bit far from Brasil :P14:53
Jaffa...and the summit is *the* place for Maemo presentations :)14:53
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* VDVsx goes lunch 14:57
lizardoJaffa, VDVsx : for sure, I 'll try to convince some/one of the PyMaemo guys to make a presentation, as there is at least some interest to justify it :) hope that's not too late hehe14:58
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Mekanyone knows if itis possible with the qt for fremantle to have proper fremantle "menu's"?15:01
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ustunozgurwhat is the best way to encode using ffmpeg? cif at bitrate 200?15:02
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* man_in_shack waves16:13
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man_in_shackcan anyone suggest a good calendar/organiser type app for diablo?16:15
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man_in_shacknetsplits are fun16:20
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man_in_shackis it over yet?16:26
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RST38hIt is. The end boss was tough.16:28
timsamoffMorning political humor:
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timsamoffEr. I was thinking about another political piece and didn't mean that link to say political.16:31
* timsamoff is dumb.16:31
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ustunozgurhow does one install abiword? it asks for defoma16:51
ustunozgurapt-get install defoma says it is obsolete16:52
man_in_shackok, gpe calendar looks a lot nicer than mCalendar16:55
lcuktimsamoff, \o i cannot stop but just wanted to say thank you for your support16:55
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lcukman_in_shack, mcalendar is coming on leaps and bounds, khertan posted pics of it, he is increasing performance at a heckova rate16:55
man_in_shackgood to know16:56
Jaffakhertan rocks. Looking forward to seeing him again at the summit.16:56
man_in_shacki'll keep mcalendar around and see where it goes16:57
aquatixooh, mcalendar looks a lot better than half a year ago16:57
aquatixor whenever i tried last16:57
man_in_shackbut i'll have to transfer all my entries to gpe calendar while i use that16:57
man_in_shackone thing that pisses me off is that mcalendar starts about 20 autosync processes as soon as the internet is connected16:58
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* aquatix actually uses gcal now, so mcalendar on n810 is useful16:59
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man_in_shackwell, i think i've hacked the sync to be disabled successfully17:03
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man_in_shackso it'll be easier for me to transfer my entries around17:03
man_in_shacksleep time17:03
timsamofflcuk: Where did khertan post the mCalendar pics?17:04
timsamoff(Or if anyone knows.)17:05
aquatixi guess these are out of date then?
aquatix <- sounds new17:05
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aquatixd'oh, that's not by khertan17:06
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timsamoffMaybe this?
timsamoffBut, don't know about mOrganize. ;)17:09
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aquatixyeah, was looking at those picasa img's too17:10
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lcukjaffa agreed, and yeah those pics are the ones17:13
* lcuk runs away again17:13
timsamofflcuk is still tied to IRC, though... Turn it off! :p17:15
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dnearyhi lopz17:29
lopzheya dneary17:29
nelsonhi, dneary.17:31
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talig1lardman: are you here? I'm still struggling with some pygtk stuff...17:32
dnearytalig1: What're you struggling with? I have done a little phgtk17:33
talig1dneary: Trying to figure out how to know if a user clicked "ok" or "cancel" in a dialog. Documentation is slightly obscure (at least the parts of it that I've seen...)17:34
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dnearytalig1: You need to test response_id (iirc)17:36
talig1dneary: You don't say... How?17:36
dnearytalig1: So - is the on_response signal connected?17:37
talig1dneary: How do I connect it?17:38
talig1dneary: Or better yet - where is this issue explained?17:38
nomistalig1: do you connect to any signals at the moment?17:39
dnearySorry - in meeting at the same time17:39
nomistalig1: there is a lot of C examples out there. You'd probably need some creative reading to apply this to pygtk.17:40
dnearytalig1: Here's a basic tutorial you can follow:
talig1nomis: I have connections of some things. Ok, hold on a sec.17:41
talig1nomis: This tutorial is just telling me what I already know. Connecting events.17:42
inzIf you use the run() -method, it returns the identifier for the pressed button17:42
talig1inz: I do. Brilliant! Thanks a lot!17:42
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nomisok, if you don't need the dialog running asynchronously this indeed is the easiest solution.17:43
inzwell, the dialog is still kind-of running asynchronously17:43
nomisyeah, but your code "stops" at the run().17:44
talig1nomis: Until you close the dialog you can't do anything anyways. It's blocking.17:44
talig1nomis: In anycase - this is what happens if you don't specifically tell it not to, you might be able to override this17:45
dnearytalig1: Go to the next page, and then the page after that17:45
dnearyThe tutorial's pretty good17:46
nomistalig1: but your code could do something  :)17:46
talig1dneary: I didn't say it wasn't, I said it was irrelevant to my question.17:46
talig1dneary: which it is, even in "the next page after that".17:47
talig1nomis: Probably, but I don't need it to :) The wonders of developing in academia ;)17:47
dnearytalig1: OK. Unfortunately, I don't have any more time to help you further. Best of luck in your research!17:47
talig1dneary:  It's fine, inz gave me the answer17:48
talig1dneary: Thanks a bundle!17:48
inznomis, it really only blocks the code path, all asynchronous events (timeouts, io channels etc) still work just fine17:49
nomisinz: I know.17:49
inzSo you've basically just wasted some stack memory17:49
nomisinz: but you cannot set up a second dialog etc. There are a lot of scenarios where run() is just too limited.17:50
nomiseh, run() a second dialog.17:51
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talig1nomis: What's the alternative, for the sake of my shabby education? :)17:52
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* talig1 is going to test inz suggestion. brb17:55
inznomis, sure you can run() another dialog17:56
inznomis, it will just create another main loop and waste another bunch of stack memory17:56
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inzI'm not totally sure though, what will happend if the dialogs aren't dismissed in order.17:59
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inzBut likely the outer calls will block until the inner ones have all been processed17:59
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dnearyslonopotamus: Ping?18:10
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taliginz:  Works like a charm. Thanks alot!18:11
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slonopotamusdneary, pong. gtg, will be back in 30 mins18:22
dnearyslonopotamus: So - you should *definitely* come to Amsterdam in October18:24
dnearyIt'll rock18:24
dnearyAnd you'll be a rock star18:24
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Stskeepsam i weird for never having heard of 'Maemo co-creation workshops' before? :P18:33
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cmugdoes carman work in maemo 5 yet?18:34
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VDVsxStskeeps, sihhhh, it's a secret thing ;)18:40
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VDVsxkenneth, ping18:41
kennethhey VDVsx18:42
VDVsxkenneth, your talk is scheduled for Saturday 10 at 12h, ok ?18:42
andre__uh, talks get already scheduled?18:43
kennethlet me check18:43
kennethVDVsx, perfect!18:43
VDVsxkenneth, it's the second day18:43
VDVsxnp, thank dneary :)18:44
dnearyandre__: Yes18:44
dnearyWe're scheduling them as we accept them18:44
andre__nice (as long as i don't end up in the morning :-)18:44
VDVsxdneary, change andre's talk to the morning ? :P18:45
dnearyandre__: Assuming your talk is accepted18:45
dnearyandre__: You're at 16:30 on Saturday afternoon for the moment18:45
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andre__if it's not accepted i do it in front of the building anyway, with my own beamer :-P18:46
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wazdheya all18:46
VDVsxhello wazd18:46
Stskeeps'lo wazd18:46
Andy80VDVsx, dneary: could you please give a look at my reply too, when you've some minutes? - thanks18:46
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VDVsxandre__, do you have a pico projector ?18:47
dnearyAndy80: I think you should change the talk title & abstract to be a talk about pymaemo, rather than about binding libraries18:47
andre__VDVsx, i'll buy one ;-)18:47
dnearyAndy80: Does that sound reasonable to you?18:47
Andy80dneary: it does... anyway my whole experience is based on the job I'm doing writing bindings for python-mafw, even for this reason I did think it was ok18:48
Jaffadneary Andy80: lizardo was asked to pitch a PyMaemo talk earlier, BTW18:48
VDVsxAndy80, we also have another bindings talk proposal from a outstanding pymaemo contributor, that seems more maemo focused IMO18:48
dnearyJaffa: By who?18:49
VDVsxme probably18:49
Andy80I didn't see any other pymaemo proposal when I subimitted mine....18:49
lizardodneary: I think he is talking about Marcelo Lira (aka setanta, not here ATM)18:50
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VDVsxlizardo, right18:50
dnearyAh, yes18:50
lizardoAndy80: it is not pymaemo related, but from a PyMaemo developer :)18:50
Andy80lizardo: ok :)18:50
lizardoAndy80: although I don't know why two PyMaemo developers can't make presentations about different topics :)18:50
Andy80lizardo: don't ask to me :P18:51
lizardoAndy80: no asking , just wondering :)18:51
Andy80lizardo: if I'm not wrong.... Qt uses SIP to generate bindings, right?18:52
VDVsxAndy80, As dnery said, something like RAD with pymaemo will be better than bindings18:52
VDVsxAndy80, are there any special cases for python bindings for maemo ?18:52
Andy80VDVsx: what do you mean with "RAD with pymaemo"?18:52
VDVsxrapid application development with pyMaemo18:53
lizardoAndy80: PyQt4 yes, but setanta is gonna talk about a whole new approach AFAIK18:53
Andy80VDVsx: not my stuff then... I just use Scratchbox+VIM to code :P18:53
Andy80sometimes I use Komodo Edit, but it's not an IDE....18:54
VDVsxhumm, but I'm not think in IDE's and tools, with talking about python himself18:54
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Andy80there's already a presentation about ESBox from its team, that is the most close to RAD18:55
VDVsxAndy80, sorry for the typos :P18:55
Andy80you mean explaining how to code faster, using PyMaemo instead of C/C++ ?18:55
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VDVsxAndy80, like presenting pymaemo, and what it can offer18:56
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Andy80I understand now18:58
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VDVsxAndy80, your initial submission seems and little bit hardcore, IMO, not sure if it would have a good number of people interested19:00
Andy80VDVsx: before submtting it I was thinking about a LT about python-mafw, the problem is: who is using MAFW itself at the moment?19:01
VDVsxAndy80, true :(19:02
andre__Stskeeps, do you know anything about ? Could be interesting for Mer, maybe19:02
Andy80I know that it's a very important component in Fremantle, but I really don't know who is using it... imagine the python binding :)19:02
JaffaX-Fade: post-lunch ping19:02
JaffaAndy80: Presumably a talk about MAFW, using Python as an example language, would be useful to any developer writing a media player19:03
VDVsxAndy80, a hands one session should work, but we already have one proposed by one of your colleagues :(19:04
VDVsxwill be around C, I guess19:04
Andy80Jaffa: the problem is that python-mafw is in a very early stage at the moment... I'll work on it full time for another month, but I cannot know if it will be finished for the summit period....19:04
Andy80VDVsx: yes, the one from Iago19:05
Andy80surely he's more skilled than me about mafw :)19:05
lizardoVDVsx: well, I as said earlier, Andy80 and Marcelo Lira (setanta) are both from PyMaemo (including myself too) , but the talks they propose are unrelated ;)19:05
lizardoAndy80, VDVsx : ah, I see19:06
lizardoVDVsx: you mean the (C) MAFW vs. Python MAFW thing ?19:06
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VDVsxlizardo, I guess so19:07
Andy80lizardo: would be interesting to see how much less code it requires :P (python, I mean)19:07
lizardoAndy80: I think it would be a lot shorter :)19:07
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lcukVDVsx, what day are we penciled in for?19:08
Andy80what I did understand is that Iago is going to introduce MAFW, in general, then he's going to concentrate on how to write plugins for it19:08
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lizardoAndy80: unfortunately , Iago's talk is about "Writing plugins for MAFW" which we can't yet in this first version :(19:10
lizardoI mean, we can't do it in Python yet19:10
Andy80all I can do, at this point, is to propose a LT about python-mafw.... telling people that it exists, what point we've reached with binding and asking developers a bit of feedback... that's all for 5 minutes.19:10
VDVsxAndy80, think about that please, python-MAFW  can be a good LT also, but you have to coordinated with Iago (if we accept his presentation, isn't decided yet)19:10
VDVsxlcuk, ?19:10
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Andy80VDVsx: sure I can coordinate with him :)19:11
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VDVsxAndy80, and if you have some app to show, you are very welcome to submit another LT19:12
andre__Stskeeps, ah, okay. found the talk thread, so you know about it already :)19:13
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Andy80VDVsx: for the moment, I'll submit a LT about python-mafw. If then I find another interesting thing to talk about, I can submit another, but first a question: can a single person do 2 LT ? if yes, no problem for me...19:14
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VDVsxAndy80, yes, we don't have any objection on that19:15
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VDVsxlcuk, your session will be on Sunday morning :)19:17
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VDVsxAndy80, actually, we are seeking for people that have cool maemo apps to show on the LT's, if you know someone, ping him/her or the content committee :)19:20
Andy80all the people I know, already are in the schedule ;)19:21
Andy80another big reason why lof of developers inside the community are not developing something interesting (yet) is because we still don't know which application will be shipped with the future N***19:23
VDVsxnah, a lot must be convinced ;)19:23
Stskeepsandre__: we'll see where that one goes.. regulation is a funny thing19:23
Andy80the risk is that someone could work in his free time to a project that Nokia is already developing itself19:23
andre__that's always the risk :-/19:24
Stskeepsandre__: fwiw, i track slonopotamus's awesome work and we often discuss it in #mer :)19:25
andre__Stskeeps, yeah, i realized afterwards when i saw his nickname (only saw the real name in bugzilla)19:25
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VDVsxStskeeps, Can you convince him to talk at the summit ? I offer you a beer :P19:26
Andy80it's only my opinion, but... I think we'll get more people in the community once "fremantle" evolves to a real device. Before that time... I don't know... personally I wouldn't develop anything :P19:26
Andy80(except Python parts that we know won't be officially supported....)19:27
JaffaAndy80: History shows Nokia's bundled apps to be pretty shit ;-)19:27
Andy80History is made to learn :) I really hope they have learned something from the past19:28
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GAN800Andy80, doubtful.19:28
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Andy80let's sit down and wait, there's so much time :) (well.. months not years :P )19:30
JaffaTrouble is we want to get the summit sorted, and might not be able to wait that long.19:31
Andy80Jaffa: yes yes, I was just talking about future maemo applications from community19:31
Andy80we need to concentrate on the summit now19:31
JaffaAndy80: Yeah, but if no one wants to talk at the summit, because they're waiting on a future Maemo release...19:32
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StskeepsVDVsx: honestly though, would you want to leave home when you have a newborn baby?19:33
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Andy80Jaffa: I didn't say that no one wants to talk... I just said that no one (or at least, very few developers) want to develop something for fremantle, but this is just my own personal opinion19:33
JaffaAndy80: I don't disagree :-/19:33
VDVsxStskeeps, true, but it's just a few days :)19:34
JaffaStskeeps: Having a 6 month old, I can say "yes" ;-). But seriously it's only for a few days when it'll be 3 months old19:34
JaffaMaybe I'm just jaded and/or used to abandoning my family19:34
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GAN800Jaffa the Deadbeat Dad19:35
VDVsxbtw, what is the prize involved in the "device launch prediction" thread at tmo ? :P19:37
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Luke-Jr"it" -.-19:37
Luke-Jrchildren are not its19:37
* VDVsx searches for the thread 19:37
Stskeepsi'd actually like to see a common gentoo talk by Luke-Jr & slonopotamus19:37
JaffaThey are if you don't know the gender :-p19:37
Stskeepsand their efforts and troubles putting a open system on the device19:37
Andy80VDVsx: is there any prize for it :) ?19:38
Luke-JrStskeeps: sounds like we both have new kids and won't be making it :þ19:38
Stskeepsit's similar to ours except we decided to bend a little :)19:38
VDVsxAndy80, just kidding, because I think I gonna win :P19:38
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Andy80I just would like to see a good product, I don't care if they make us to wait19:40
Stskeepsheh, i was sold already at the developer units19:40
Stskeepsand the kernel configs19:40
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lcukVDVsx, urg, sunday morning20:00
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lcuki wont be back from hospital by then lol20:01
RST38hRST38h: 1, VAX: 020:01
lcukw000t RST38h20:01
RST38hVMS boots20:01
VDVsxlcuk, keynotes are on the morning, luckily the party will be Friday :P20:01
lcuki wasnt talking about the party lol20:02
lcukim on about my inevitable trip to hospital20:02
Stskeepsparty friday?20:02
Stskeepsoh boy20:02
Stskeepsah, 16 o clock for me20:02
VDVsxlcuk, doors again ?20:02
lcukuh huh20:02
Stskeepsshould be managable20:02
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lcuksunday 9am doors open20:03
lcuksunday 915am lcuk at the hospital20:03
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RST38hlcuk: what are they doing to you this time?20:11
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lcukRST38h, experiments20:14
lcuki will have my own scp article20:14
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VDVsxRST38h, btw, I bet you have some cool app to show at the summit, did you ? :)20:15
RST38hVDVsx: I have already shown all my cool apps in Extras... :)20:17
RST38hlcuk: white caucasian male of european descent with no descernable features other than a data jack in his finger? =)20:18
StskeepsVDVsx: idea for talk since you're (i think) a bit in both camps - openmoko community, comparisons20:18
RST38hVDVsx: I was thinking of a talk about possible ways to emulate keyboards and joysticks in a buttonless device, using EMULib as example20:19
lcukRST38h :D excellent, paste that into an article and others will flesh it out20:19
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RST38hlcuk: You should at least pretend to be carnivorous, in some eerie way20:20
lcukdoes it count that i eat bacon.  lots of bacon?20:20
RST38h(although I know how hard it is to beat some of the current SCPs)20:20
RST38hMay work20:20
RST38h"Turns any living being he touches to bacon:"20:20
lcuk:O :D \o/ you know me so well20:20
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lcuki best not masterbate then20:21
VDVsxStskeeps, openmoko community is slowly dying, and I not active anymore on that community, but it's a good suggestion20:21
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lcukbrb baconifying things20:21
StskeepsVDVsx: i think there's definately material and lessons to be learned in that20:21
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Stskeepsheck, i'm even surprised maemo still has a community after 4 years..something must be going right :P20:22
RST38hSts: until the last 6 months or so, yes20:22
RST38hthings are stretched pretty thin right now though20:22
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StskeepsRST38h: yes and no - the last year has also fostered community in terms of Mer20:23
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VDVsxStskeeps, to be fair, I'm really impressed with the OM community still, some of them keep going the development, with very good progress, without almost any backup, and no new device on the horizon20:24
StskeepsVDVsx: oh, i think they're a very talented bunch of people, don't get me wrong20:24
RST38hSts: That is a bit differenct though20:24
VDVsxStskeeps, true20:24
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Stskeepsbut yes, of course people are stretched if you look on HW side, and patience regarding releases.. another good topic is - why complain about not having fixes for your PC that can't run Vista, but runs XP?20:25
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VDVsxStskeeps, lol20:25
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Stskeepsthat's the FIF argument deep down20:25
VDVsxRST38h, you can also showcase your apps already in extras in a LT, or something new :)20:27
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Stskeepsandre__: i wonder how many % of FIF bugs can be directly fixed by a simple backport to diablo20:29
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timeless_mbpandre__: so...20:29
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timeless_mbpit turns out that google reader key bindings *sometimes* work20:30
timeless_mbpthe logic behind "sometimes" is beyond me20:30
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: sadly, that isn't the debian way ;-)20:30
timeless_mbpfirst you upgrade your base libraries, then you change your dependencies to match, and then you fix bugs20:31
timeless_mbpand then when someone tries to backport, they're missing a base library :)20:31
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Stskeepsyeah, true20:31
timeless_mbpenter Mer.20:31
Stskeepswhere we get problems because our base libraries are actually too new ;)20:31
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timeless_mbpdebian, making windows dll hell seem so much better than linux-so hell and debian dep hell20:32
Stskeepsi'm having fun right now ripping out libhildonhelp of Mer20:32
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timeless_mbpbtw, how do people feel about help?20:33
Stskeepsit's a bit of a bother to remove, but i think reaction to it's removal isn't that bad..20:33
Stskeepsremoval should have done in prealpha1 though20:34
* timeless_mbp frowns20:34
timeless_mbpi'm fairly certain we knew long in advance that it was dead20:34
timeless_mbpso that sounds like an error20:34
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GAN800I wonder how many people a day message nickserb.20:36
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StskeepsJaffa: happen to remember where your post on how to go about community SSU was?20:37
Stskeepsi need to refer to it in a post20:37
woglindehm today I am look the ti gstreamer code20:37
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Luke-Jr[12:39:15] [Error] nickserb: No such nick/channel.20:39
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StskeepsGAN800: you'd want to /quote nickserv20:40
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RST38hVDVsx: I do not have anything new at the moment, most of my recent work has been for hire20:42
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RST38hVDVsx: And not sure if anyone needs my apps showcased beyond Extras :)20:42
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: any good bugzilla foo on seeing what diablo bugs / earlier that was fixed in fremantle? :>20:44
timeless_mbpum, FIXED tm:Fremantle in quicksearch?20:45
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timeless_mbp(doesn't seem to work)20:45
timeless_mbpwell, maybe it'd work if bugs.maemo upgraded? :)20:46
timeless_mbp2.22 isn't support and isn't secure20:46
* timeless_mbp pokes andre__ 20:46
Stskeeps gives me some kind of idea20:46
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timeless_mbpit isn't working though20:47
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timeless_mbpthat's a trivial query to do in the advanced search btw (which is how i wrote it)20:51
timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure a current bugzilla would have let my qs work though ...20:51
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Stskeeps'lo johnsq21:01
slonopotamusi'm back. it took longer than i expected21:01
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Stskeepscheckup or?21:01
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taligHi everyone. I got a quirky question: Is there any place that describes exactly what of pygtk was ported to maemo? Since gtk.ver gives 2.14, I have methods working that were introduced in 2.4 and methods not working though introduced in 2.12....21:08
lizardotalig: do you have specific examples ?21:09
slonopotamuswow, wasn't closed WONTFIX21:09
slonopotamusi meant
taliglizardo: for not working: ToolButton.set_tooltip_text21:10
taliglizardo: Docs say 2.12, works on my laptop (2.16), doesn't on the N810 (thought version claimed is 2.14)21:10
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: i really think the problematique may be they can't aid breaking regulation or something21:11
StskeepsFCC and co are nasty people21:11
lizardotalig: what do you mean by "not working", the method is at least there :21:11
lizardo>>> gtk.ToolButton.set_tooltip_text21:11
lizardo<method 'set_tooltip_text' of 'gtk.ToolItem' objects>21:11
Stskeepsslonopotamus: but yes, you're the first person to directly ask21:11
lizardotalig: hmm21:12
lizardotalig: nao I see that you are talking about Diablo right ?21:12
lizardonao -> now21:12
taliglizardo: not working == crashes claiming ToolButton does not have such an attribute (though I clearly use ())21:12
taliglizardo: bingo21:12
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lizardotalig: Diablo has pygtk 2.1221:13
lizardotalig: is it supposed to have such method?21:13
taligSupposed to have been introduced in 2.12. And I have the reverse example now: set_tooltip(tooltips, tip_text=None, tip_private=None) for the same item, supposed to be valid as of 2.421:14
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taligit doesn't show the tooltip - but it doesn't crash either.21:14
taliglizardo: As for set_tooltip_text, docs say: "This method is available in PyGTK 2.12 and above."21:15
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javispedrotalig, it may be PyGTK 2.12 but Diablo's GTK version is 2.10 AFAIK21:16
taligjavispedro: I'm really getting confused here. a) lizardo claimed 2.12. b) Still doesn't explain why things that should be available as of 2.4(!) don't make it crash21:17
taligjavispedro:  and if I run python, import gtk and do: gtk.ver on the n810 I get: (2,14,1)21:18
lizardotalig: I thing the problem is that the underlying gtk libs in Diablo don't have this method:
javispedro^^^seen the URL? version 2.1021:18
lizardotalig: even though we have PyGtk 2.12, what determines what will be in the binding is that underlying gtk libs21:19
lizardotalig: so even if we have pygtk 2.12 in diablo, as it has libgtk 2.10 , Pygtk will disable the 2.12 features21:19
taligjavispedro: I really don't care what version it is, I care for consistency - which doesn't exist.21:20
taliglizardo: It doesn't have set_tooltip() either, but that doesn't crash.21:20
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lizardotalig: it exists: simply follow that 2.10 docs, unfortunately , the PyGtk documentation hardcodes references to the PyGtk versions, what it should have been mentioning the underlying C library version21:21
taliglizardo: strike the last one. it's in ToolItem21:21
taliglizardo: Thanks. Gone to make the damned tooltips work. wish me luck...21:22
lizardotalig: good luck :)21:22
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pupnikanybody interested in getting a boat in amsterdam oct 8-12?  would run to about 45 euro/night21:23
pupnikyou get the boat to yourself, 4 beds, kitchen, a nice deck to chill and drink beers21:23
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taliglizardo: Thanks. Got it to work, it behaves weird, but I suppose that just the way it is...21:25
lizardotalig: probably due to (lack of) hildonizations, but I'm no expert on it :)21:26
taliglizardo: elaborate? The weird behavior is that if you touch the icons like you normally would - they're just being clicked, it takes a delicate hand to have it marked without clicking to show the tooltip21:27
* lardman wonders whether to watch more A-Team21:28
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pupnikheh @ brainrot21:30
lizardotalig: well, I don't do gui programming myself, but I keep seeing on maemo-developers complaints about some gtk widgets not working/showing properly on Maemo... the usual answer is that that widget was not adapted to be used on Maemo, and is available only because Gtk has it.. anyway, other people might know better :)21:30
pupniklardman: wats new21:30
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lardmanpupnik: hey, not much, got married now less busy :)21:30
lardmanthanks :)21:31
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lardmanor were you talking about the business bit :D21:31
* lardman needs to stop typing in word processors and remember how to spell21:32
johnsqwhat is busyness?21:33
RST38hthe state of being busy?21:33
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lardmanthat was my thought anyway, but the more I look at it the stranger the spelling seems, I think I need to stop for the day21:35
RST38hlet us ask google21:35
lardman~google busyness21:36
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RST38h665000 for busyness21:36
RST38hBoth Merriam Webster and TheDictionary know itr21:36
johnsqgerman dict also21:37
lardmanyeah that's the one21:37
pupnikoh just wondering how things were going21:38
RST38hah German...21:38
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lardmanpupnik: not bad anyway, other than the spelling :)  and you?21:39
lardmanRST38h: thanks, glad I'm not going mad (too mad anyway)21:40
RST38hlardman: check the fridge, somebody lit a light there21:40
pupnikgreat. got operation on herniated disc, and pain all gone!  birds singing, sun shining.   would be fun to get a boat for the amsterdam summit, but i'll probably just sleep in the car21:41
lardmanah, well I know they didn't 'cos I blew the circuit the other day while trying to fit a new bulb21:41
lardmanpupnik: glad your back's sorted21:41
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RST38hMeanwhile, the God is busy sabotaging LHC21:43
lardmanI didn't realise it was a 240V circuit in there, lucky I didn't do any more damage!21:43
lardmanagain? more leaking He?21:43
RST38hMultiple magnet failures21:43
RST38hCause unknown, but we all know =)21:44
lardmanyeah, he's got to make up a bit of new theory so we can find something out21:44
* GAN800 loves potluck.21:44
lardmanI imagine he's regretting the decision to allow atoms to be divisible ;)21:45
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RST38hlardman: prolly not as much as the premature termination of large flying carnivorous lizards21:46
lardmanyeah but they didn't exist, he just put their bones in the ground, another mistake - more work21:47
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slonopotamusStskeeps, it's all about intent :) i want to respect regulations. but in order to do that, need some docs :)21:51
Stskeepsslonopotamus: that's a good argument :P21:51
caoticI just hear in the linux action show that there is a new tablet is just out there, havent been able to find anything about it ? do you guys know anything about this ?21:52
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* slonopotamus tried to understand what Quim meant in but failed.21:53
JaffaStskeeps: will find it21:53
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lardmanslonopotamus: basically that it would be useful for someone to make a prioritised list of components to be opened21:54
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* lardman pats himself on the back for some nice working phase-unwrapping code21:55
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slonopotamuslardman, meh. so making bme №1 will suddenly convince nokia to open it? i doubt21:56
lardmanprobably not, but at least then Quim can skip the ones that won't be opened and go to the next one....21:57
JaffaStskeeps: if you still need it21:57
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lardmanslonopotamus: I think Stskeeps had a list somewhere on the Mer pages already now I think about it22:00
Stskeepsi think we have a few actually22:00
slonopotamuslardman, yeah, i read it22:00
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StskeepsJaffa: website is all CC by-sa 3.0?22:01
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StskeepsJaffa: reason why i'm asking is simple.. does this mean that anything under api_refs is CC by-sa 3.0 too22:04
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lcuklardman|afk ping22:06
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woglindehoi lcuk22:08
lcukhiya woglinde \o22:08
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lcukare you done with college/uni now woglinde or have you got more to do22:09
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woglindelcuk 3 oral exams, the thesis(I started it, but not got very far) and a report about pratical work22:19
lcukahh ok, so you should be finished by next week :D22:19
woglindethe last is ready since 3/4 year but need some polish22:19
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lcukwoglinde, i thought you were from poland?22:26
woglindelcuk lol22:27
woglindeberlin is not in poland22:27
lcukyeah, that would be a bit of a commute22:28
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* Stskeeps ponders when he gets barred from submitting bugs :P22:31
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RST38hSts: The real question is whether you get tired first =)22:32
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woglindewhat the hell I need for this damned dsp22:32
GAN800Stskeeps, I'd've been barred way before you. ;)22:33
woglinde5 software packages from TI22:33
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StskeepsGAN800: (Request clarification of license for API documentation published) will be interesting in terms of how Nokia wants to act22:35
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woglinde~lart TI22:38
* infobot slaps a compatible dib on TI's head22:38
woglindewhy the hell they dont ship a eclipse plugin instead of full flavor jre and eclipse22:38
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GAN800Stskeeps, besides, the people holding the keys aren't Nokians. ;)22:49
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JaffaX-Fade: Any chance of the meeting log from earlier being published on ?23:09
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slonopotamusLuke-Jr, kde 4.3 is out. changelog lists lower memory usage for plasma. time to try? :)23:55
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: already 2 steps ahead of you23:55
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slonopotamusLuke-Jr, oh, already waiting for 4.4? :D23:56

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