IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-08-03

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javispedroandre__, can I bother you and your mobile kitchen sink device :) ?00:43
javispedro(about that openttd palette swap thingie)00:44
andre__javispedro, yes00:45
javispedrook, it should be on extras-devel00:45
javispedroand thanks :)00:47
andre__yeah, i can see it under "Browse installable applications"00:50
andre__javispedro, want me to test sth special?00:51
javispedrojust run it and figure if the trees are blue or green ;)00:51
GeneralAntillesandre__, can I annoy you?00:51
andre__javispedro, but i see some bugs :)00:51
andre__GeneralAntilles, you can :)00:51
javispedroyou mean, packaging?00:51
GeneralAntillesandre__, OK, good. I'm holding that for a rainy day. :P00:51
andre__javispedro, there seem to be hard line breaks in the "Description" section that make it a bit ugly to read :)00:52
javispedrotoday is a rainy day here :D00:53
andre__GeneralAntilles, err... hope I didn't get you wrong... thought you had a question to me maybe :)00:54
javispedroandre__, oh, thanks, still didn't get the beta 2 h-a-m working00:54
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andre__there's a dialog that confuses me, mom00:55
javispedrothe card install thingie? cancel it00:56
javispedroi'll try to handle all of this later, it's the palette swap that's keeping me awake00:57
andre__is that a feature of openttd? interesting idea00:57
javispedrocause I fear I'll have to switch to the 32 bpp rendered00:57
andre__note that the card install dialog talks about pressing OK and Cancel, but these buttons don't exist00:57
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javispedroweird, that's maemo-confirm-text.. I think i remember it had an OK button at least?00:58
javispedro(cancel being the implicit "click anywhere else")00:58
* javispedro boots sbox00:59
andre__javispedro, eeks, now clicked it away already. I think it was "Apply"01:00
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javispedroandre__, on sbox it has an "Accept" button01:01
andre__javispedro, the trees are green, yellow and brown i'd say01:01
javispedrono blue trees01:02
javispedroso it's a xephyr thing01:02
andre__it's hard to exactly touch the buttons in the start screen, they are *very* small :-/01:02
andre__there are definitely no blue trees01:02
javispedroyes, 0.8.0 is going to have reflowable ui01:02
andre__there's blue water though :)01:02
javispedroaw man, I lost the blue trees screenshot I was going to attach to the bug report ;)01:05
andre__good night01:06
javispedrothank you!01:06
javispedroand good night :)01:06
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chx"30245 new messages on the server but the retrieval limit is 200. Retrieve all?" HAHA my tablet is suicidal to even ask that.02:28
mavhcI ended up actually using the archive option in gmail due to using imap on n81002:29
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chxmavhc: i might need to do that too, it seems it still tries to download the whole shebang02:32
chxmavhc: so you just moved out of inbox everything not needed?02:32
mavhceverything >1 year old, archive02:33
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chxwhen creating a new filter i do not see such an option02:34
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mavhcsearch between dates, then select all and archive02:40
chxfor search, i have date within... but not between dates02:43
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chxin labs there is an imap tweak02:45
GeneralAntillesAny way to archive all search results?02:48
GeneralAntillesAs opposed to doing them 20 at a time. . . .02:48
chxyou can click select all search results.02:48
chxmy inbox dropped to a measly 1124 messages.02:49
GeneralAntillesClicking "All" only selects visible messages02:49
chxnot "all"02:49
chxthere is a separate long link just above the message02:50
GeneralAntillesNot here.02:50
chxclcik all02:51
chxAll 20 conversations on this page are selected. Select all conversations that match this search02:51
GeneralAntillesAh, that's intuitive. . . . :roll:02:51
chximo its fucked but :P02:52
chxOMG what would I give for an N810 with a four row keyboard and a powerful CPU...02:56
chxbut, beggars cant be choosers02:56
chxI am happy even this exists.02:56
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GeneralAntillesWell, N900 offers the CPU, anyway.02:57
chxif / when that ever ships.02:58
GeneralAntillesSeptember is still my guess.03:00
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chxi know03:03
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thuxhow much free space merinstaller needs to run properly in maemo?08:58
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StsN810enough to put a initfs uncompressed09:02
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thuxStsN810: how much in megabits?09:14
StsN810byte, 5-10mb?09:14
thuxthat little09:15
Macertmob is going like 50KB/s09:16
Macerwtf is going on.. does ssh have that much bandwidth overhead? :)09:16
thuxthen something else is wrong in my maemo09:17
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thuxgot 50Mb free space and install process wrote it full twice09:19
lardman50Mb free space is the reported space?09:20
thuxthen stopped and collapsed09:20
lardmanon your internal flash, jffs2 filesystem?09:20
lardmanthe fs is compressed, it only makes a best guess about how much space it has available09:21
thuxdf said09:21
thuxok that must be problem09:21
lardmanalso, iirc, when a package is installed it's decompressed to tmp, then copied to location. Can't remember if tmp is mounted as a ram disk, but if there's not enough room it will fail09:21
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sgegmorning guys, is there anywhere I can find real info about how the audio stuff works on these n800/n810?09:23
lardmanprobably no help mind you :)09:23
lardmansge: real as opposed to imaginary? ;) What do you want to know?09:23
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sgelardman: hahaa well, I'm kind of intersted in where the sound goes from an application before it goes out..09:24
lardmanit goes into the DSP and is output from there09:24
sgealways DSP?09:25
lardmanvia one of the gstreamer DSP sinks09:25
sgethen both gst and esd either have their own code or use alsa_dsp?09:25
sgegstreamer DSP sink.. I'll google for those then..09:25
sgeI'm kinda trying to get a clue on the entire thing..09:26
lardmanthey will all use the DSP pcm sink I imagine, probably wrapped to fit in with whatever they expect09:26
lardmannot sure about alsa_dsp09:26
lardmanthere are some headers in the repo as well as the GPL arm-side parts of the GStreamer DSP sinks09:27
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lardmanwhy the interest? Anything specific?09:27
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sgeyea, I'm wondering about the latencies in each of them09:29
lardmanah ok09:29
sgegives me a headache..09:29
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lardmanonce the pipeline is setup I'd have thought the latency would be ok, but if it is repeatedly setup then torn down that might cause problems09:30
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lardmanbut I don't know anything about the GStreamer pipeline latencies tbh, and all of my DSP work is with dynamic tasks, which have to be loaded, so not so relevant as the PCM task stuff is always loaded09:31
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sgeguess the only way to find out is the hard way..09:33
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lardmanyep, get timing! :)09:34
sgeI'll see what I can do.09:34
lardmangive me a shout if I can do anything to help09:35
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles, Jaffa:
JaffaMorning, all10:47
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JaffaStskeeps: ta10:48
Stskeepsandre__: ping10:48
lardmanhi Jaffa10:50
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andre__Stskeeps, pong11:04
Stskeepsandre__: can you check if Extras/Mer has '0.15' as version?11:04
Stskeepsand if not, add up to 0.17 or something :)11:05
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andre__Stskeeps, will do11:05
zsany news about n900? when it will be available to buy?11:06
Stskeepszs: none yet, except if there's something in morning news :P11:06
tbfzs: when they consider it ready for masses, i guess? ;-)11:06
Stskeepsandre__: thanks11:06
Stskeepsandre__: remind me to buy you a beverage at summit :P11:06
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RST38h"A [British] report recommends that the military scale back its involvement in controlling the drug trade in order to focus solely on security."11:10
lardmangood thing too, otherwise is pisses off the poppy growers11:10
RST38hTakes .AU news source to reveal who controls Afghan drug trade =)11:10
RST38hlardman: raises prices and keeps Americans from its share of the pie, I know :)11:11
lardmannah more that with no jobs for the (Afghan) boys, they go around blowing up our boys11:11
RST38hlardman: They seem to handle both jobs equally well, in the same time11:11
lardmanperhaps if demand for heroin rose they'd find farming more useful than RGP-weilding? You never knoe11:12
RST38hUnless you experiment of course.11:13
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eichi_PDAhello, i need a openstreetmap raw file map viewer11:44
eichi_PDAsomeone can tell me some?11:44
eichi_PDAor is navit the only one?11:44
RST38heichi: Roadmap11:45
eichi_PDARST38h, thanks i will try11:48
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floriangood morning11:48
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eichi_PDAi will travel throw england and wales 2 weeks by hichhicking andd need some nice oopenstreetmap data11:49
eichi_PDAbut maemo mapper...files will get to big11:50
eichi_PDA2gb zoom level 6 wales11:50
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RST38h"It all began last month when the man heard a "hissing noise" and thought he "could see vapor" after dropping his 11 year old daughter's iPod Touch. He threw it out the back door of his house and "within 30 seconds there was a pop, a big puff of smoke and it went 10ft in the air."12:11
RST38hNow we know why the batteries are non-removable in these...12:11
jaskanext: TSA bans ipods12:11
RST38hno sht.12:11
eichi_PDARST38h, getmaps downloads raw osm data?12:14
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RST38hDo keep in mind that Roadmap is kinda shaky, it never worked for me12:24
eichi_PDARST38h,  cant get maps12:35
RST38hFor me, it just hung12:35
RST38hTrying to get maps. I have no idea what the problem was because it seemingly worked for other people12:35
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eichiRST38h, same here, maps downloading doesnt work13:01
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VDVsxandre__, ping13:18
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VDVsxmurrayc, ping13:20
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andre__VDVsx, pong13:23
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VDVsxandre__, please comment/add more info:
murraycVDVsx: pong13:23
VDVsxmurrayc, same :P , please comment/add more info:
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murraycVDVsx: What info do you need? When I submitted it I included a description.13:24
andre__yeah. dave also chatted with me about it. it's on my todo list13:24
VDVsxmurrayc, see the comments in the link that I sent13:24
murraycVDVsx: I'll answer the dev/user question though.13:24
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VDVsxandre__, great :)13:25
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murraycHow do I add that signature+time to a wiki edit?13:25
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andre__Stskeeps, added (Re: Mer)13:25
X-Fademurrayc: click on the signature icon ;)13:26
Stskeepsandre__: ta!13:26
murraycX-Fade: Ah, thanks.13:26
X-Fademurrayc: --~~~~13:26
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eichirsalveti, i will use navit now13:30
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eichiits slow, but it works13:30
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* Stskeeps tries to write his first sane blog post in years..13:37
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VDVsxStskeeps, forget blogs, just twit :P13:40
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StskeepsVDVsx: hehe13:40
Stskeepstwits don't end up on planet :)13:40
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VDVsxStskeeps, don't give ideas lol ->  maemo twit planet :)13:42
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JaffaAnyone particularly want to advocate the position of disgruntled tmo user on -community (re elections & accounts)?13:48
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lamojolaI have my N800 booting from a 2GB SD card.  The boot menu comes up fine, but when I select to boot from the SD card, the blue bar progress continues, and then at some point it goes into a reboot, and I'm back at the menu.  I found some resources on the 770, but that was regarding a MMC issue.  I'm not sure what's going on here, but I'd like to troubleshoot it.  Anybody have a resource online or an idea what's going on14:11
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lcuk5lamojola, boot loop problems can occur for a number of reasons, does the device still happily boot from its internal doofer14:49
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lamojolalcuk5, thanks for the reply.  Yes, it does boot from there fine.  I can work in that environment.14:50
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konttori_Hmm.. I'm trying to run clutter hello world on the device with clutter, but having some problems.15:11
konttori_it's saying that clutter.Text()   -> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Text'15:12
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lcuk5aint that just rubbin the noses of the users here since i gather most wont be able to reproduce and diagnose the problem :P15:13
konttori_umm... well, on desktop, should be the same15:13
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banyone around? I've got some serious weird issues15:19
RST38hwhat are your serious weird issues?15:21
bI'm missing libhildon, with is a depenency for everything, and I have a few packages that apt-get keeps telling me to run apt-get -f install on, but they won't install15:21
bsome espeak mammajamma15:22
bdid that make sense?15:23
bsay I try to install Maemo Mapper15:24
bI am met with this response:15:24
bunable to install maemo-mapper15:24
bsome application packages are missing15:24
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bat first I just thought I was missing a repo or something of the sorts15:25
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RST38hWhat device do you have? And what OS?15:26
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brunning maemo of course15:27
RST38hOS version?15:27
RST38hYou should upgrade to 5.2008.43-715:29
RST38hThen it will work15:29
bI live out of a backpack, so this should be fun trying to find that mini usb adapter...15:30
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bherm, running windows 7 too15:32
bit appears very hung up on "installing driver" for the nokia update app15:33
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wazdheya all15:34
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RST38hmoo wazd15:37
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Maceroh goddamnit15:42
Maceri don't think my car has an obd2 port15:43
Stskeepsdid you get your 700$ n810 yet? :P15:43
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taligHi everyone. I need some gtk/pygtk help. Anyone around with clues?15:43
derfMacer: Is your car from, like, the 80's?15:44
derfThey were made mandatory in the US in 1996.15:44
VDVsxStskeeps, I recommend you the second one, here:
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Macerderf: 94 :-P15:45
derfShould've spent $700 on a new car.15:45
RST38hSts: Is it a collectible or what?15:45
Macerthe scantool i have is only for obd2?15:46
Macerthe bt one from
Macerit says "automatic protocol detection"15:46
Macerso does that just mean it detects different obd2 protocols or can detect obd1 and 2 ? :)15:46
StskeepsVDVsx: i've had a commercial dropping in my front door trying to sell me a n810 for ~1549 usd.15:46
derfConsult your documentation.15:47
Macerderf: i don't have the scantool here yet ;) but i'll look on their site15:47
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Maceri guess most sites say my car use obd 1.5.. whatever the hell that means15:47
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Maceri guess when they were doing the transition. .but the only port i see on my car is teh older 12pin port15:47
VDVsxStskeeps, It's a good deal for sure ;)15:48
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StskeepsVDVsx: just as good deal as free waterboarding15:49
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VDVsxStskeeps, lol15:49
VDVsxStskeeps, but you need that one, to complete the collection :P, since you already have an 770,n800, n810 :P15:49
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X-Fadejeremiah_afk: ping?15:54
wazd <- one of the most tasteless logos I've ever seen :)15:56
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: how'd you personally go about libconic hardcoding if you were to?15:56
Stskeepsas in, insisting you're online15:56
Stskeepswazd: it makes gsoc students horny! with memories of 60s!15:56
Stskeepsor something15:56
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wazdStskeeps: draw snowflakes to describe summer - fail :D15:57
Maceryeah it just doesn't support it15:57
Macerman that sucks15:57
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RST38hwazd: it is a spoof of some hippie era movie title15:57
Maceri didn't even notice it didn't until i started to read teh repair manual15:57
Macer1996 had it15:57
Macerso no maemo carman for me :(15:58
Macernot in my caprice at least which is where i wanted it15:58
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RST38hMacer: But you can put a machine gun in your caprice and still have place for the ammo15:58
MacerRST38h: i have an 09 tahoe too15:59
Macerbut i don't want the n810 and  scantool in that15:59
Maceri want it in the caprice15:59
Macerit's the only reason i bought it :( i guess i can try to find a 96 impala or caprice15:59
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Don't get the Q. Check where libconic gets the state and make it report back the same as it would if it found the connection to be active?15:59
Macerand try to trade mine15:59
Macerbut mine is in such good running conditino15:59
Macerwhich is why i wanted to trick it out with the n810 ;)16:00
Macerand the scan tool heh16:00
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: yeah i guess16:00
RST38hMacer: Make sure you get a really big whip antenna on that Caprice16:01
RST38hMacer: Or better four little antennas =)16:01
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Macerthat's so redneck16:02
Maceri live in chicago man. we don't do that here :)16:02
Macera caprice can have a lot of class if you do it right16:03
Macerdamn i don't want to give it up but that is going to erk me until i die haha16:03
VDVsxwazd, lol16:05
VDVsxwazd, for your consideration:
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lamojolaI have a N800 that gets stuck in a boot loop if I boot to its SD card.  Can anybody help me troubleshoot this?16:38
lamojolaI can boot into the internal flash just fine from the boot menu.16:40
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VDVsxlamojola, internal SD card ? do you have some free space on the card ?16:42
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lamojolaVDVsx, yes thanks.  It's an internal SD card, not SDHC.  It's only 2GB, and I do have plenty of space on it, but I must check this first, but I'm not so sure yet.  It was working perfectly fine until one day it started doing this.  I think it was working for like a week or maybe three weeks.16:46
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VDVsxlamojola, maemo need some free space to boot, just a few megas16:49
lamojolaVDVsx, I feel like you maybe onto something, so thank you.  I'm going to book Kubuntu now and look at the partition on the SD card.  I feel silly :)  Pity I couldn't dig this up on Maemo.  I could only find stuff about MMC boot looping problems, but I didn't dig up anything about space. Yep, feeling silly.  I'll report back my findings.16:51
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cpm_Hi, where can I find hciconfig the Nokia N810 with Maemo4? I have bluez-utils installed, but still don't find hciconfig ...16:52
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VDVsxlamojola, np, it happens all the time :), and also happens to the OS on the internal flash, but can be other issue also16:53
lamojolaVDVsx, I wish I was out of the woods already.  The ext2 partition has plenty on it, 456MB, and the FAT32 has 748MB.  Anything else I should try?16:56
lamojolaThat's free space, BTW.16:57
VDVsxlamojola, humm, dunno, can be a card problem, a missing file, I don't remember how to enable the boot messages17:00
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, ping17:00
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: pong17:00
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, do you know/remember how to enable the boot log ? ^^17:01
qwerty12_N810Installing sysklogd and klogd should do it. But if you need messages on the screen:
VDVsxlamojola, ^^17:04
lamojolaYes, thanks again both of you.  I'm reading it now.  I'm a little lost, but if I can't find my way, I'll post back how to get there.  I'll also post back my finding with my error, what went wrong etc.  Maybe it is a damaged SD, but I'm not sure why.  More conclusive results to follow.  Thanks again!17:06
qwerty12_N810Oh, BTW, does anyone know how to set the window icon? I want to override the one set by hildon-desktop (which is using the icon specified in the desktop file) gtk_window_set_icon*() doesn't do shit (it's Maemo, go figure) but the browser manages to do it.17:06
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javispedroqwerty12_N810, did you look at how gtk adi does it?17:24
javispedroeither way it does not seem to link to hildonwm either17:26
qwerty12_N810javispedro: just appears to be gtk_window_set_icon() which doesn't do anything when I give it an icon17:26
qwerty12_N810(under Maemo)17:26
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javispedroand that does not surprise me since hildonwm seems to ignore the X icon17:27
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javispedrowhat surprises me is that it does not seem that any browser component at all links with hildonwm...17:27
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qwerty12_N810I noticed that _NET_WM_ICON_NAME property was set after icon was changed but when I set (and it got set, I checked) it, icon remained the same17:29
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* javispedro greps ICON_NAME -r hildon-desktop17:30
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javispedro0 refs to _NET_WM_ICON_NAME17:30
* mgedmin assumes people know about the app <-> desktop file <-> icon relationship in maemo17:30
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qwerty12_N810mgedmin: yep, but I wish to change it after it has been set17:31
javispedroyep mgedmin, afaik they're trying to emulate the browser behaviour17:31
javispedro(displaying the favicon overlayed)17:31
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mgedminshouldn't you be looking at _NET_WM_ICON?17:32
mgedmin_NET_WM_ICON_NAME is the unicode title of the minimized window17:32
qwerty12_N810_NET_WM_ICON gets set but hildon-desktop ignores it17:32
qwerty12_N810Ah, thanks17:32
javispedro  if (w == 64 && h == 54)17:33
javispedroit searches for an icon of this size17:33
javispedroin the _NET_WM_ICON atom17:34
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xnt14~seen b-man1617:35
infobotb-man16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11d 11h 27m 16s ago, saying: '  '.17:35
xnt14hmm :P17:35
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qwerty12_N810I've been feeding it an 64x64 icon to set, let me try a 64x54 one, thanks17:35
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JamieBennettping dneary :)17:36
dnearyJamieBennett: Hello?17:36
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dnearyWhat can I do you for?17:36
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JamieBennettmeeting about the presentations?17:37
JamieBennettdneary: I was hoping you'd just go on IRC & ping me ;)17:37
dnearyJamieBennett: Oh - you're *that* Jamie Bennett17:37
dneary(/me is just yanking your chain)17:38
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dnearyOK - I'll be in the toilet for a sec, but could one of ye start going through the presentations that still need a review (there are 3 you can talk about while I'm away at least)17:39
JamieBennettLets start with Dave's then VDVsx17:39
VDVsxJamieBennett, ok17:40
JamieBennett  Giving Great Presentations17:40
JamieBennettI like, yes from me17:40
JamieBennettand a yes from you so this can be moved to accepted?17:40
VDVsxyup, put the bold text there, please17:41
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JamieBennettmmm, nothing in the accepted bit yet?17:41
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VDVsxJamieBennett, yup, can be moved down also17:42
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GAN800Anybody got any Linux/receipt printer experience?17:42
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JamieBennettMoney for nothing: Making money off free software17:44
JamieBennettYes from me, you?17:44
* qwerty12_N810 wishes to write an open-source program that aids him in counterfeiting money17:44
mgedminGAN800: I've got some DOS/receipt printer experience17:44
mgedminand some Windows/receipt printer experience I'm very happy to put behind be17:45
infobotmgedmin meant: and some Windows/receipt printer experience I'm very happy to put mehind be17:45
mgedminthat's not precisely the correction I had in mind...17:45
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VDVsxJamieBennett, depends on the keynote session, we have a lot of presentations already in the dev's track, wait and see for me, but I like the theme17:46
javispedromgedmin, lol :)17:46
JamieBennettOK, wait and see on this one but I would like to see it if we have space.17:46
GAN800mgedmin, migrating from a DOS PoS arrangement to Ubuntu as we speak.17:46
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VDVsxJamieBennett, me too :)17:46
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VDVsxJamieBennett, gonna update, next one we need dneary help17:47
JamieBennettI've updated and we have one more. - Maemo documentation co-creation17:47
RST38hGAN: No OS/2? :)17:47
JamieBennettYes from me in some format but I'm wondering if a lightning talk would be better?17:48
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JamieBennettthoughts VDVsx17:48
VDVsxJamieBennett, let's ask dneary , some clarifications17:49
VDVsxdneary, already here ?17:49
JamieBennettI can see the subject as either. A talk in the user track (which we need) or a short to-the-point lightning session, more of an overview, update and call for help.17:50
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VDVsxJamieBennett, seems good, but I'm not sure about dave's planes for the session17:51
JamieBennettOK, back in a minute then, waiting for dneary17:52
GAN800RST38h, 98SE17:53
RST38hIt's somewhat of a progress from OS/2 though17:53
qwerty12_N810It could've been ME...17:53
slonopotamusanyone knows the proper way to determine mtd OTP area size?17:54
dnearyJamieBennett, VDVsx: Backtracking17:55
RST38hqwerty: It could not. ME does not live longer than 6 months or so17:55
RST38hThen it usually eats itself from inside out and dies17:56
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* Jaffa needs to ensure that the "content committee" fall under the proposals for sponsorship at tier #1 :)17:56
GAN800If I can get the inventory control/PoS software to play nice in Wine I'll be there.17:56
dnearyVDVsx: I didn't think of the "Money for nothing" presentation as being for devs necessarily17:56
JaffaBut I suspect VDVsx and JamieBennett already do; and dneary's catered for by Nokia17:56
dnearyIn fact, most of the people who make money off free software aren't devs at all :)17:56
VDVsxdneary, you put dev's there :P sort of17:57
dnearyIf you really want a keynote, there's another topic I think might be appropriate. The title could be something like "Jeez, how hard can it be to get this stuff right?"17:57
JamieBennettdneary: I see the money for nothing as more of a user track, no?17:58
JamieBennetti.e. using free software to make money not creating it?17:58
dnearyJamieBennett: I can certainly do the docs update as a lightning talk, but it'll be fast & furious and intense. I have some nice ideas for making it a fast & furious 20 min presentation too though17:58
JamieBennettdneary: For me either is fine (and we have space in the user track).17:59
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dnearyJamieBennett: I was definitely going to talk about the Dutch coins in my "making money from free software" presentation17:59
xnt14qwerty12_N810, ;P17:59
dnearyI was also going to talk about a guy who paints custom twenty dollar bills with his face instead of the president, and offers them in bars & restaurants as payment18:00
dnearyMost places accept it, and frame the notes18:00
dnearyGreat story18:00
JamieBennettdneary: :) Sounds good to me. VDVsx has some doubts18:01
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dnearyAnd it's not counterfeit, because to make counterfeit money, a reasonable person has to think that it might be real money18:01
VDVsxabout the doc's presentation -> if you planes pass for convince more people from the community to help the maemo docs team, i definitely vote yes for a full session18:01
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dnearyAnd then that leads into the story of how you might do that with xsane and the GIMP18:01
VDVsxdneary, if users: yes else wait and see :)18:02
dnearyBut of course you can't do it with Photoshop, because PS detects that you're trying to open a scanned bank-note, and disabled the program on you18:02
dnearyVDVsx: I'll keep it high level18:02
VDVsxdneary, seems a very intresting presentation for the users track18:02
dnearyThat'll only be the into18:02
JamieBennettOK, to summarize, docs talk in user track as a full session and making money also in user track. Yes?18:02
dneary(of course, now we're in a situation I had hoped to avoid, where I have privileged access to the guys choosing & I'm convincing you :)18:03
VDVsxJamieBennett, yes here :)18:03
dnearyAnd the presentations lightning talk?18:03
VDVsxdneary, lol18:04
Jaffadneary: the old adage of "it's not what you know, but who you know" isn't always a negative ;-)18:04
VDVsxJaffa, what do you offer to us, to we accept your presentation ? :P18:04
* Jaffa 's noticed there are a few things which are similar18:04
JamieBennettdneary: If we have room you could do an intro to the docs and tell them to go the full session but keep it as a full session for now.18:04
JamieBennettnot lightning18:05
JaffaSo won't be too upset if you decline it (in particular, I have hopes that PyQt will be fantastic; and a demo of how good Maemo dev _could_ be would be superfluous; as we'd have it)18:05
JaffaWorse case; mine can be lightning18:05
dnearyJamieBennett: Honestly, the docs will be a summary of where we are, and where we want to go18:05
JamieBennettOther session, presentation talk, yes from both of us18:05
dnearySo it could potentially be pessimistic18:05
* Jaffa just wanted some sponsorship as he's broke ;-)18:05
dnearyBut I like to think of the success of, say the proof-reading of the HIG, the moves towards early publishing of docs and the success of the new wiki being very positive break-throughs18:06
* JamieBennett moving dneary's talks to accepted.18:06
dnearyJamieBennett: Will you be sending the acceptance email, or should I?18:06
dnearyJaffa: In fact, I was voting not to accept yours18:07
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dnearyJaffa: I'm sure you'll get there, though :)18:08
VDVsxdneary, JamieBennett , can we start now in the 'wait and see' submissions again ? just to take another deeper look18:08
Jaffadneary: Here's hoping18:08
JamieBennettI think we have enough stars for the liqbase-playground to be accepted18:09
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dnearyJaffa: You could give a presentation on something tmo relared?18:09
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VDVsxJamieBennett, sure18:09
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JamieBennettOK moving18:09
Jaffadneary: "tmo: how to waste time and rot your brain?"18:09
Jaffadneary: May not be positive enough18:09
dnearyJamieBennett: As I noted, there are enough stars presenting to make a Fremantle Stars keynote, yes18:09
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dnearyJaffa: That would be a talk I'd go to see :)18:10
VDVsxwe can ask for a cool presentation around tmo : "How to rant about maemo/nokia" :P18:10
VDVsxhand on session, of course :)18:10
JaffaVDVsx: heh18:11
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JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, Evangelizing Mer, and Tips on Promoting Your Own Project18:11
JamieBennettMoving to no?18:11
VDVsxI think dneary add something new, let me check18:11
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JamieBennettOn reflection, I think that this is not a great and potentially interesting session to a large number of people. Voting no. --Dave Neary 13:48, 31 July 2009 (UTC)18:11
dnearyVDVsx: Yeah, I added a "no"18:11
lcuk5JamieBennett, liqbase-playground as an hour on my own?18:12
VDVsxdneary, fine for me, I agree partly with your last thoughts18:12
* Jaffa weighs in - since you're having the meeting here - that it *is* interesting why some projects succeed in gathering a community; and others don't.18:12
* lcuk5 apologises for late return18:12
JaffaBut I dunno if that's what the topic would address.18:13
JamieBennettlcuk5 Have you resubmitted with the proposal of what you are to talk about for an hour?18:13
JamieBennettJaffa, that would be a community talk rather than a Mer one though18:13
JaffaJamieBennett: Fair enough.18:14
Stskeepsthis talk wouldn't be mer-specific, but serve as inspiration for other projects too really18:14
* Jaffa shuts up now.18:14
lcuk5no but your comment is ambiguous, i cannot tell whether i am talking alone or if you have done anything else with the time18:14
qwerty12_N810javispedro: you, sir, are the shit18:14
* Stskeeps ponders idly where to upload a mugshot to maemo.org18:14
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: ...and he's the dogs' bollocks. But it's probably worth emphasising that (in UK English at least) these are *good* things18:14
qwerty12_N810(it's a compliment :P)18:15
JamieBennettlcuk5 From the wiki page - Fremantle Stars Presentation including liqbase-playground18:15
GAN800Stskeeps, user settings.18:15
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: :)18:15
VDVsxlcuk5, Fremantle Stars plenary session, 10 to 15 mins each Session confirmed, at least OMWeather, OSM2Go, liqbase and Mauku will present18:15
GAN800Stskeeps, from the Midgard toolbar.18:15
JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx - How to speed up your Maemo application development18:15
GAN800Stskeeps, click save then it'll give you more options.18:16
StskeepsGAN800: page->edit account doesn't let me upload or anything18:16
GAN800Super intuitive18:16
lcuk5VDVsx, JamieBennett ok sounds ideal :)18:16
dnearyJamieBennett: Not sure what that last comment to lcuk5 was about18:16
dnearyJamieBennett: Still wait & see for me18:16
StskeepsX-Fade: ta, aiming up for putting a blog on planet for once :P18:17
JamieBennettdneary: lcuk5 asked if he had to talk for an hour, I gave him the talk title from the wiki18:17
VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary , same here, but I like the topic, and might have some potential18:17
dnearylcuk5: No, you're not talking for an hour, a one hour slot will be shared by all the Fremantle stars18:17
JamieBennettOK, so a wait and see for that one then18:17
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JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, Creating Python bindings for C libraries in Maemo18:17
dnearyJamieBennett: You saw the other Stars that had replied already?18:18
lcuk5yes dneary i gathered that now - i didnt at first since i put myself down alone :)18:18
dnearyOSM2Go, OMWeather, Mauku18:18
dnearyAnd one definite no, Vagalume18:18
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JamieBennettdneary: yes, just confirming that this was critical mass for the presentation18:18
dnearylcuk5: We could get you to talk all day, if you want ;)18:18
javispedroqwerty12_N810, :) . Thank mgadmin too, he told us about the X atoms :)18:18
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VDVsxdneary, lol18:18
dnearyJamieBennett: Yes, that works out at 15 mins each. 5 or 6 would be even better18:18
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lcuk5heh dave - in amsterdam anything is possible18:19
lcuk5we havin the summit in a coffee shop?18:19
qwerty12_N810Thanks mgedmin :)18:19
mgedminfor what?18:19
qwerty12_N810The X atom stuff18:19
mgedminoh, the atoms18:19
* lcuk5 works again thanks for clarifications will read scrollback later18:20
aquatixlcuk5: *sigh*18:20
JamieBennett^ thoughts on that presentation?18:20
aquatixlcuk5: like all amsterdam consists of coffee shops ;)18:20
* mgedmin was once very interested in X11 and read the ICCCM and the EWH spec18:20
aquatixmgedmin: it only went downhill from there?18:21
javispedroone can lose interest in X11quicly, it  appears to me like a gigabyte mess18:21
VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary my thoughts are there, again not trying to be harsh, by the flow in -devel ML, the proponent don't seems to me a expert in the proposed topic, at least atm18:21
lcuk5aquatix, if i'm made to stand up and talk all day, perhaps thats the only sustainable method lol18:21
dnearySorry ye've lost me18:22
dnearyWhat presentation now?18:22
VDVsx Creating Python bindings for C libraries in Maemo18:23
dnearyYeah, no from me18:24
JamieBennettOK, moving to no.18:24
dnearyBetter to push Andy80 to give a RAD with Python on Maemo presentation18:24
JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx - Developments in The Qt WebKit Integration18:25
dnearyBut then the PyQt guy will feel jealous :)18:25
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dnearyJamieBennett: I really have no opinion, leaving the choice up to you guys18:25
dnearyVDVsx: What do you think of QtWebkit?18:25
VDVsxseems better now, with the explanation of the proponent18:26
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VDVsxonly reading the description i would say no, because I had the same doubts that dneary18:27
JamieBennettNot sure if it would be compelling as a presentation18:27
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dnearyVDVsx: Original author added a comment18:27
JamieBennettThis would be platform, yes?18:27
VDVsxcan be18:28
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JamieBennettI'm really on the fence, not feeling it either way18:28
JamieBennettIs it considered such a big part of the framework to warrent a presentation?18:29
VDVsxbut, Qt webkit is very powerful and you can use it as a regular widget inside a app, so will be also good for dev's track18:29
dnearyKnow who I want to come give a presentation for system developers?
VDVsxslonopotamus, ^^^:P18:30
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JamieBennettdneary: Yes18:30
slonopotamusVDVsx, uh?18:30
VDVsxslonopotamus, line above mine18:30
JamieBennettslonopotamus: Submit a proposal to come talk at the Maemo Summit!18:31
JamieBennettabout what you are doing18:31
VDVsxJamieBennett, so wait and see also ?, I tempted to accept grrrr18:31
JamieBennettI'll abstain (I'm easy either way). If you vote yes it will be accepted18:32
slonopotamusnah, no time to talk, only time to code :)18:32
VDVsxslonopotamus, lol18:32
VDVsxJamieBennett, I'm just afraid that we fill all the dev's slots now :(18:33
dnearyslonopotamus: You're here?18:33
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dnearyslonopotamus: You should do it, for sure18:34
dnearyI just emailed you18:34
mend0zacan anyone told, what kind of WiMAX chip used in WiMAX Edition18:34
slonopotamusdneary, no way. my daughter has been born 2 weeks ago, wife won't be happy if i go somewhere :)18:34
mend0zaand driver name for it18:35
dnearyslonopotamus: I will ensure that your travel expenses are paid...18:35
qwerty12_N810mend0za: driver name is pc2400m18:35
mend0zadmesg also will be good18:35
dnearyslonopotamus: At least, I'll do my best18:35
mend0zaqwerty12_N810: Intel one ?18:35
Jaffaslonopotamus: It's only for a few days in October. While off yet.18:35
dnearyThe kid'll be 3 months old - almost old enoughh to start working18:36
qwerty12_N810mend0za: appears it18:36
* Jaffa 's missus is talking about bringing herself and the kids18:36
JaffaI can't think *why* she wouldn't trust me in Amsterdam ;-)18:36
qwerty12_N810Getting high can be a family activity! ;P18:36
mend0zaqwerty12_N810: ok, got it, thanks a lot!18:36
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VDVsxJamieBennett, so wait and see, or plataform track ?18:37
StskeepsX-Fade: sent planets request :)18:37
JamieBennettIf you want it there, platform track18:37
JaffaStskeeps: What's the URL so we can have a sneak peak?18:37
VDVsxJamieBennett, fine for me, plataform is empty now :)18:37
JamieBennettOK, moving to accepted18:38
JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, Development Nirvana: How Maemo Application Development Should Be18:38
VDVsxJamieBennett, put a note about the track,please18:38
dnearyJamieBennett, VDVsx: Sorry Jaffa, but I vote no on this one18:38
VDVsxit's a very important topic, IMO, but don't know if this will fill a full session, depens on Jaffa's planes18:39
dnearyIt's all too easy to present an idealised environment18:39
dnearyMuch prefer realpolitik approaches to improving the way things are, rather than presenting Nirvanae18:39
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lamojolaI can't export OSSO_VERSION=$(cat /etc/osso_software_version)  per
VDVsxdneary, hard to maemo implement one :P18:39
dnearyJaffa: Would you be interested in condensing your thoughts on this to 5 mins for a lightning talk?18:40
Stskeepsmeh, wasn't that bad, taken a year so far :P18:40
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dnearyVDVsx: See slonopotamus for proof to the contrary :)18:40
JamieBennettdneary has a point. I like the subject but mayby not a presentation.18:41
VDVsxdneary, I'm talking about dev tools, an integrated and easy sdk , see androind and palm sdk, diff approach18:41
VDVsxalso my concerns18:42
dnearyJaffa: Still here?18:42
dnearyOK - moving on for the moment18:44
Jaffadneary: Soryry - talking to colleague18:44
JaffaLightning talk doable.18:44
dnearyJaffa: How dare you talk to a colleague during work hours18:44
* Jaffa happy with that.18:44
dnearyYou should be fully concentrated on IRC18:44
Jaffadneary: I try to minimise it. We usually either agree or argue ;-)18:44
* JamieBennett taking a break from iPhone *and* android programming at the same time :)18:45
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JaffaJamieBennett: :)18:45
VDVsxok, LT then ?18:45
JamieBennettOK for me18:45
lcuk5JamieBennett, simultaneously?18:46
lcuk5one in each hand? :D18:46
JamieBennettlcuk5 of course ;)18:46
lcuk5you da man!18:46
javispedroyou're lying, the iphone can't be done with one hand ;)18:46
JamieBennettlcuk5 moving an app from iPhone to android :(18:46
JamieBennettlcuk5 big different (Obj-C -> Java) two different code editors, two different styles ..., the list goes on !18:47
dnearyOK - Live Outdoor Event18:47
JamieBennettstop, dneary your fine with jaffa's lightning talk yes, if so moving to accepted18:48
dnearyOSM2Go + GPXView18:48
dnearyJamieBennett: Yup18:48
dnearyJamieBennett: Given that I suggested it :°)18:48
JamieBennettdneary, just checking ;P18:48
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VDVsxJamieBennett, move also the Qt webkit and pymaemo bindings to rejected18:49
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VDVsxJamieBennett, Qt webkit to accepted18:49
JamieBennettVDVsx: Done, just keeping the window open whilst I edit, not saved yet18:49
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dnearyVDVsx: I'll take care of the proposals page18:49
dnearyFor the moment, I think the right thing to do is just note the decision18:50
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dnearyI'll move the abstracts & clean up afterwards18:50
VDVsxdneary, ok18:50
JamieBennettdneary: wiki page has been edited already18:50
dneary(if no-one minds, I'll schedule my presentations on different days18:50
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VDVsxJamie is only editing the talk page18:50
JamieBennettsorry, yes18:50
dnearyJamieBennett: No problem. I'll try to figure it out18:50
JamieBennett^ I like the Life outdoor talk proposal18:51
dnearySo - the geoclue talk (OSM2Go & GPXView)18:51
JamieBennettI vote yes as lightning talk18:51
dnearyMoved to Fremantle Stars18:51
dnearyOSM2Go is a Fremantle Star18:52
VDVsxdneary, yes18:52
VDVsxbut, I also agree with Jamie's points, I think we have room for another LT around geocaching in that stuff18:52
VDVsxwith maemo devices of course :)18:53
JamieBennettDepends on if there is overlap with the two talks. If they are different I vote yes18:53
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VDVsxwe can ask Till, about that18:53
JamieBennettOK, so wait and see pending response from Till18:54
JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, Writing plugins for MAFW18:55
VDVsxhumm, accepted that one for the keynote session, and ask for a more geocaching oriented LT ?18:55
JamieBennettVDVsx, yes18:55
VDVsxMAFW : "Presentation (Tutorial)" -> maybe a BoF ?, we have a available room18:56
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VDVsxS/BoF/hands on session/18:56
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dnearyJamieBennett, VDVsx: I'm willing to bow to your better judgement on this one too18:57
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dnearyVDVsx: Agreed on asking for a geocaching LT too18:58
dnearyPerhaps a more general "location in Maemo" LT18:58
JamieBennettVDVsx: Just worried that if it is a BOF it may attract less audience18:58
JamieBennettdneary: agreed18:58
VDVsxdneary, yup18:58
VDVsxMAFW : IMO, it's very interesting for a hands on session, but not so much for a session18:58
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dnearyVDVsx: I can see how it might be a great session for the right audience18:59
VDVsxaccording to the description provided, of course18:59
dnearyVDVsx: I'm just not sure how big the audience is, thus my deference to you two :)18:59
JamieBennettdneary, that is my worry18:59
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JamieBennettVDVsx: BOF sounds better after re-reading the abstract but I have my concerns at the potential audience size19:01
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VDVsxthe room seems small :P19:01
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JamieBennettOK, I'm going to say wait and see what else comes in19:02
VDVsxcan also be added to plataform19:02
VDVsxJamieBennett, fine for me19:02
JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, Creating packages for the Maemo platform19:02
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dnearyJamieBennett: Yes19:03
dnearyBut I've asked Jeremiah to give a more complete summary19:04
dnearyI want to make sure that he & Andre have thought through what they're presenting19:04
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lardmanafternoon all19:04
VDVsxhello lardman :)19:05
JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, GUPnP and Rygel: The UPnP/DLNA solution for Maemo19:05
dnearyI say a big maybe!19:05
JamieBennettConfirm that it is as we hope?19:05
dnearyJamieBennett: As I commented, I think this'd make a great user presentation19:05
VDVsxusers oriented yes, I think we have to wait for zeenix reply19:05
JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx,  Handheld Glom: Easy database applications.19:06
dnearySomething like "Set up your N810 as a home entertainment system using Rygel and GUPnP" or something like that19:06
dnearyJamieBennett: Yes from me19:06
dnearyNice app, problem domain that is somewhat interesting19:07
wirelessdreamerwtb n900 rumors so I can get a device and start dev work19:07
dnearyAnd quick DB backed applications represent about 80% of all applications out there :)19:07
JamieBennettdneary: Is that a yes as a user or dev talk as the author says its definitely a dev talk?19:07
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JamieBennett(yes for me for a dev talk BTW)19:07
dnearyglom is a developer application - it's like a form creator19:08
dnearyso yes as app dev talk19:08
JamieBennettdneary: I know, just going by your comment on the wiki.19:08
VDVsxI don't know glom, don't know the relevance that it has inside maemo :(19:08
VDVsxbut I trust you guys :)19:08
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dnearyVDVsx: the thing that attracts me is that it is not meta19:09
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JamieBennettVDVsx: many many handheld apps need some kind of DB for storage19:09
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dnearyit's showing off a useful application19:09
JamieBennettOK, moving to accepted19:09
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JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, that leaves Bug Management19:10
VDVsxJamieBennett, nah nah, another Qt one there :P19:10
VDVsxbut yes for Andre's proposal19:11
JamieBennettVDVsx: Ah hiding underneath :)19:11
dnearyYes, but want a bigger summary :)19:11
VDVsxJamieBennett, I put it there, a couple of hours ago :)19:11
JamieBennettdneary: :) Moving to accepted but we still want to see more summary19:12
JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx, Automatic binding generation for Qt based libraries19:12
VDVsxseems python bindings again19:12
dnearyTempted to say yes because it's Marcelo19:12
dnearybut I think it's not the Marcelo I think it is19:13
VDVsxnot marcelo eduardo19:13
VDVsxanother one19:13
JamieBennettI have an issue with the potential audience size again19:13
dnearyand overlap wit the pyqt presentation19:14
JamieBennettdneary, indeed19:14
dnearylet's say wait & see19:14
dnearyI'd like to see where we stand with spots filled, spots available (per track) and stuff we want to have and don't yet19:14
JamieBennettdneary: we discussed yours as you probably read in the backchat with just one being a wait and see.19:15
JamieBennett^ yes, I'll like to see the timetable filled in19:15
dnearySo that we start pro-actively hassling people like slonopotamus to present their stuff who haven't signed up yet19:15
VDVsxbasically it's the same topics as the python- c bindings proposal, but this time is c++ - python bindings19:15
dnearyWhat ever happened to that other Maemo-based distribution from OpenBossa that was getting worked on last yearN19:15
JamieBennettI'm ready to say no to it19:15
dnearyAbandoned in favour of Mer?19:15
JamieBennettmamona never really took off19:16
dnearyStskeeps: Yeah, Mamona19:16
Jaffadneary: It's been being worked on for years - but they did do a presentation on it last year19:16
Stskeepsdneary: seemingily it's still active19:16
VDVsxthey use it at least, afaik19:16
Stskeepsi wouldn't mind seeing a presentation of them about how their project has been going and lessons to be learned, actually19:16
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* rkirti has never understood how Mamona functions..... :-( They use oe but have no buildable image19:16
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Stskeepsrkirti: i personally see mamona as yet another mobile distribution tangenting towards using enlightenment and slowly dying from touching it19:17
Stskeepsbut mer has a lot of their tricks and tips in it.19:17
* javispedro likes the name, is in fact some spanish female insult19:17
rkirtiStskeeps: for instance ?19:17
Stskeepsrkirti: like some of their cx3110x work and networkmanager things, etc19:18
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rkirtiI see19:18
VDVsxjavispedro, don't know the meaning :P19:18
rkirtiiirc,they claimed it was some plant name ..adding as a (lame) joke that it could also be  a play on the names maemo and canola19:19
dnearyI've heard of others considering Enlightenment recently19:19
dnearyWhat does E have going for it?19:19
VDVsxjavispedro, eheeh, work partially for Portuguese also :P19:20
Stskeepsdneary: it looks shiny but due to the constant development your application will suddenly have no toolkit updates for the thing it uses, etc..19:20
Stskeepsi admit it is cool, but every distribution that starts to use it slowly rots19:20
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dnearyVDVsx: JamieBennett: Can we agree on Wait & See until we see where we're at right now for that Qt bindings one?19:21
VDVsxdneary, yes19:21
JamieBennettdneary: yes19:21
JamieBennettI think that done isn't it?19:21
JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx:?19:21
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dnearyWe're done19:21
VDVsxJamieBennett, yes19:21
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dnearyTook longer than I expected19:21
javispedrohave you seen all the Trac spam lately?19:21
dnearyThanks guys!19:21
dnearyAnd happy holidays!19:21
JamieBennettdneary: No problem.19:21
javispedroit does contain legible comments!19:21
VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary next round in Sep :)19:21
* JamieBennett goes back to iPhone/Android development19:22
dnearyStskeeps: Slowly rots?19:22
* javispedro is impressed and will for sure check the interface to confirm if it works then buy some cheap nike shoes19:22
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dnearyStskeeps: In fact, the pattern I've seen is that slowly rotting distributions jump to E as if it will solve all their GTK+ problems19:22
dnearyStskeeps: Perhaps that's unfair but it seems that way. It looks to me like blaming the wrong cause for failure19:23
VDVsxE is some much fun and powerful compared to GTK+19:24
* VDVsx hides19:24
dnearyAnyone with an evening to lose - endless source material for presentations here: http://www.publicdomaintorrents.com19:24
* VDVsx go play with accelerometers 19:25
dnearyAnother evening to lose learning from the best:19:25
Stskeepsdneary: interesting angle19:25
dnearyStskeeps: You know the Latin saying "Post hoc ergo propter hoc"?19:25
javispedroah, you're thinking putting that "Sorry, I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave" scene then slowly fading to ? ;)19:26
Stskeepsdneary: yeah - gotta eat now :P19:26
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dnearyjavispedro: No, I was thinking of clipping scenes from old Flash Gordon episodes & stringing them together in Pitivi with voice-overs of funny techie nature to make a lightning presentation19:27
javispedroheh :)19:27
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taligI need some pygtk help, any available?19:53
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lardmantalig: try me :)19:56
taliglardman: Thanks. I need to open a dialog with a textbox...19:57
lardmancreate the dialog, add a textbox object to it, display?19:58
lardmandialogs have a vbox in them by default19:58
taliglardman: gotcha19:58
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lardmanadds a label, but same thing19:59
taliglardman: I somehow ended up with "InputDialog". Meh.19:59
* lcuk5 karate chops lardman19:59
lardmanyeah, I don't know if there;s a special shortcut function19:59
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lardmanthanks lcuk5 :)19:59
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lcuk5damn been called out, but i had a full weekend that started amazingly then went downhill with a thud20:02
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taliglardman: textbox == GtkText or something else?20:03
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GAN800I really need to find something that'll keep fingerprints (or faceprints) off glass. . . .20:12
VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary, still here?20:13
dnearyJamieBennett is gone, I think20:13
VDVsxdneary, forget to talk about "go-to market..." session, you added it to user track :)20:15
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slonopotamus'Creating Python bindings for C libraries in Maemo' does it differ somehow from creating bindings in other distros?20:18
qwerty12_N810Yes. You have scratchbox. ;P20:19
* slonopotamus doesn't20:20
lcuk5GAN800, buy an axe.  cant leave fingerprints if you have no fingers20:20
GAN800lcuk, does that include chopping little childrens' faces off?20:20
dnearyVDVsx: Ah20:20
lcuk5whatever makes you happy20:20
dnearyWe can move it later20:20
dnearyWe're agreed that it's accepted20:21
VDVsxin dev's track :)20:21
VDVsxslonopotamus, what do you use ? some custom toolchain ?20:21
lardmanon-device only iirc20:22
VDVsxthat means lcuk's toolchain :P20:23
lardmanI wondered what LCC stood for ;)20:24
lcuk5my toolchain is very simple (apart from the fudging package bit..)20:25
* lcuk5 spits and curses at packaging20:25
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* lcuk5 had to cope all the way till saturday night with no bacon20:26
* lardman orders an emergency airdrop20:27
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lardmanyou probably need an epipen, to counteract the effects of no bacon, on these rare occasions20:27
lcuk5the only other thing missing from the weekend was an axe20:27
lardmanyou suffered from smudgy glass too?20:28
RST38hmoo all20:28
qwerty12_N810hi RST38h20:28
lcuk5no, we were annoyed at the guy that bought all the food, packed all the food, drove over to camp, unpacked, put tents up started bbq's then realised he had left the bacon in his fridge20:28
lardmanhi RST38h20:29
dnearyVDVsx: I wish that JamieBennett had left the presentation abstracts where they were so that I could copy & paste them to the relevant schedule pages20:29
lcuk5we were going to coerce him into going back and geting it20:29
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lcuk5and failing that, human bacon wouldv done20:29
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lcuk5hey RST38h \o20:29
RST38hheya lardman, lcuk, how are things? =)20:29
lcuk5im actually quite good20:30
RST38hlife is full of bacon? =)20:30
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VDVsxdneary, he didn't removed the abstracts, did he ?20:30
dnearyNever mind20:30
dnearyYes, he didn't20:30
lcuk5its a wiki isnt it20:30
lcuk5it has history?20:30
* lcuk5 reads double unplus good speak20:30
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lcuk5lardman, hows the python goin20:33
lcuk5you relaxing with it now20:33
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xnt14~seen b-man1620:36
infobotb-man16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11d 14h 28m 9s ago, saying: '  '.20:36
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slonopotamusVDVsx, i use on-device gentoo :P20:52
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slonopotamuson-device maemo is usable too, if you build normal coreutils20:53
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k-sVDVsx: someone removed my presentation from summit?20:59
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VDVsxk-s, nop21:02
k-sah, it was "parsed and categorized" already?21:02
VDVsxk-s, day2 at 11.3021:03
VDVsxyou can see it here :
k-syep, thanks21:03
k-skenneth just asked me as he is subscribed and saw my talk was not there anymore, then I was scared :-D21:04
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VDVsxk-s, also note that the presentation in the users track at the same time, will be moved, since it's a dev's presentation21:04
VDVsxk-s, we only removed it from the talk page, in order to clean up things :)21:05
k-si understand21:06
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kennethVDVsx, if it is possible I would prefer my talk on one of the first days, as im going to the Qt Developer Days straight after the summit21:20
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eichisomeone uses navit?21:27
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eichiyou can only use map file smaller then the memory of the device is, or?21:27
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VDVsxkenneth, so, has to be on day 2, because the first one, is nokia's day21:43
kennethfine with me :-)21:44
VDVsxkenneth, Qt dev days seems to be a very nice event, but it's too expensive for independent developers/students. IMO :(21:47
johnsqVDVsx: you can ask how to use qt with C21:48
kennethVDVsx, yes, it is a very nice event. If you were a nokian you could probably get in for free if you ask the organizers21:49
slonopotamusjohnsq, hi! how's your gentoo going? :)21:49
VDVsxkenneth, I'm not :P21:49
johnsqslonopotamus: it works, i need to find how i get sound working.21:49
slonopotamusjohnsq, mer guys set it up. there's a thread on talk with steps also21:50
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slonopotamusjohnsq, full of blobs, though21:51
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johnsqslonopotamus: i'm very busy with my project, so i haven't played much.21:52
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lardmanlcuk5: sorry for the slow reply, yeah not bad, have docs/tut open on one side and code on the other an was ploughing through (but been watching the test match highlights just now)21:54
slonopotamusjohnsq, +
lardmanRST38h: going reasonably well, not feeling too hot though, probably mild bird flu or the like ;)21:55
* lardman heads to watch the A-Team :)21:55
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Stskeepspig flu is probably an advertisement campaign to warm up the world for the N900.21:55
lcuk5and the 6billion in profits from the banks are a down payment!21:56
slonopotamusletz try once again21:57
slonopotamusanyone knows the proper way to determine mtd OTP area size?21:57
johnsqslonopotamus: I thought something like this.21:57
slonopotamusjohnsq, sadly, that can't be automated because of proprietary blobs21:58
aquatixis there some key i can press in combination with a regular tap to simulate a rightclick?21:58
johnsqaquatix: tap long, should be right click21:59
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aquatixjohnsq: hm, that doesn't work so well on an attachment in claws-mail21:59
aquatixtried it already21:59
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* lcuk5 twiddles thumbs22:07
aquatixoh well, scp is faster anyway22:08
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StskeepsJaffa: any way to add URL recognition to the pipes of garage.*22:25
pupnik hm22:26
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Stskeepserr .. i mean, for Mer rss feed22:27
Stskeepsi'm kinda saddened by the fact not many people noticed the talk post containing this url: :)22:28
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slonopotamushehe :) cool22:30
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wazd_maan, I think I've killed my keyboard23:09
lcuk2yeah wazd_, cant see anything you type23:09
Stskeepstoo much booze?23:10
qwerty12_N810Can't have done - it's not all in caps :P23:10
wazd_I'm typing with onscreen now)23:10
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wazd_can anybody advise a good kb?)23:11
* Stskeeps really should get a desktop machine again23:12
johnsq wazd_ for n810? apple mini keyboard23:12
wazd_johnsq: for the desktop)23:12
* qwerty12_N810 still uses the wired, PS/2 one that came with his computer23:13
johnsqwazd_: apple alu keyboard23:13
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wazd_johnsq: too expensive for my needs. And its for macs anyway23:14
lcuk2then get a mac23:14
johnsqwazd_: it works nice with linux. cherry stream line23:14
lcuk2you are 99% of the way there with the designer flair, you deserve to have the machine to match :)23:15
wazd_johnsq: it has mac layout on it I mean23:15
doc|homeI want a keyboard that's really super touch sensitve23:16
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doc|homemy fingers are always sore :(23:16
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johnsqdon't look at the keyboard while you type23:16
lcuk2apple kb have short travel23:16
wazd_lcuk2: it's a myth that designer should have a mac)23:16
doc|homeapple keyboards suck23:16
doc|homeI use one in work every day. doesn't register presses well23:17
doc|homeand I've tried more than one23:17
wazd_there're no other kbs?)23:19
lcuk2doc|home, maybe you could consider changing your typing style slightly23:19
lcuk2if you are bashing the keys hard enough to hurt, you are usually doing it wrong?23:19
doc|homelcuk2: if it registered keypresses correctly I wouldn't need to23:19
lcuk2hunt and peck should not result in explosive fracturing of the T key23:19
doc|homeI don't hunt and peck23:20
lcuk2#]get an ibm model m?23:20
doc|homeI had one of those, nice, but not ideal now. Now I want one that I just have to tap ever so slightly23:20
johnsqgood old ibm keyboard or old cherry23:20
wazd_if apple's product doesn't work well - it's you that does smth wrong xD23:21
doc|homewazd_: the apple way!23:21
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doc|homesadly, I think i've broken23:21
doc|homeI'm considering buying a macbook pro :(23:21
doc|homedell have driven me to this23:21
lcuk2it is, you can get surgical remodelling of your fingers to enhance your apple keyboard interfacing needs23:22
wazd_anyway, we have apples akb for 70 bucks - thats damn too much23:22
lcuk2macbook pro has same keyboard as the other apple ones doesnt it?23:22
doc|homeunless someone can suggest a nice, light 13.3" laptop without windows and with hdmi?23:22
lcuk2get a refund on the microsoft tax23:23
lcuk2never accept the eula23:23
doc|homelcuk2: has never worked here afaik, besides, too much trouble. I don't have that kind of time.23:23
wazd_will you buy macbook wihut osx?23:23
lcuk2where is here?23:23
doc|homewazd_: nope, but I'm less opposed to using OS X over giving money to microsoft. At least OS X mostly works in a way that doesn't annoy the shit out of me.23:24
wazd_doc|home: same with vista for me)23:24
doc|homeblegh :)23:24
doc|homethe kicker for me is probably the battery life23:25
doc|home7 hours. mmmm23:25
wazd_lie :)23:25
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wazd_5 if you'll pray constantly23:26
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doc|homewazd_: not on the newer ones23:26
doc|homethe older unibodys, yes23:26
lcuk2part time praying?23:26
GAN800Stskeeps, I loaded this thing up, put it in my pocket and forgot to lock it. Then was wondering why the hell I had Skype opened when I took it out. ;)23:27
wazd_doc|home: like I said, don't beleive in whats ritten on the apples site)23:28
GAN800wazd_, my friends get that with their MBPs.23:28
doc|homewazd_: well, even at five hours, it's still far longer than anything on the pc side :/23:29
doc|homemy old, dead, xps used to get 2:4523:29
wazd_doc|home: even my 2133 with tiny battery and hungry C7 does 2 hours23:30
doc|homewazd_: apples and oranges23:30
wazd_doc|home: Sony and HP makes 7+ hours23:30
doc|homewazd_: sony are even more overpriced and can't be bought without windows. HP are as bad as dell.23:31
wazd_I mean real 7+,not with closed lid23:31
* doc|home out23:32
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wazd_doc|home: hp's pretty fine for me23:32
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wazd_anyway, mac is a considerable purchase for US only23:33
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wazd_cause it has reasonable price there23:34
wazd_Here we have mbp 13 starting at only 1800 usd  :)23:36
wazd_oh, there's one for 1400 in some suspicios store23:37
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GAN800Sucks to be foreign. :P23:47
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wazd_well, I think that unibody macs are boring anyway)23:48
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lardman|tvnight all23:57
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