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| lbt | meh, I hate spammers | 00:07 |
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| talig | lbt: What's the occasion? | 00:11 |
| lbt | had to disable registration on the linux-raid wiki | 00:11 |
| lbt | just ..... GRRR | 00:12 |
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| Macer | there is a linux raid wiki? ;) | 00:14 |
| Macer | heh | 00:14 |
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| lbt | http://linux-raid.osdl.org | 00:15 |
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| konttori_ | lcuk: you can easily go to non composited mode | 00:21 |
| konttori_ | you can just set a property of the x window. | 00:21 |
| lcuk | neat | 00:21 |
| konttori_ | and at the moment (at least), there is also a key combo to toggle non-composited mode for any windo. | 00:21 |
| konttori_ | atm the speed diff is 20-30% | 00:22 |
| konttori_ | hopefully it's less when I come back from vacation. | 00:22 |
| lcuk | so in a non composited mode the powervr is available for apps to use? | 00:22 |
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| wazd | Anybody familliar with maemo5 sdk in here?) | 00:26 |
| konttori_ | lcuk: opengl is available in composited and non composited mode, both | 00:27 |
| wazd | konttori_: hey, how's the work on ThemeMaker going on? :) | 00:28 |
| konttori_ | and that is running hw accelerated through the powervr | 00:28 |
| lcuk | i know its available in both, but does turning off compositing actually give you exclusive access to it | 00:28 |
| konttori_ | wazd: haven't had time to improve it lately. Also, theme template has been changing recently. | 00:28 |
| javispedro | i assume there's no really "exclusive mode" | 00:29 |
| konttori_ | nope, but when you are drawing in that mode, all the rendering is direct. | 00:29 |
| wazd | konttori_: can't wait to draw something for fremantle :) | 00:30 |
| konttori_ | wazd: you should, definitely. Hmm.. I wonder how open the theme is already in sdk beta 2. | 00:30 |
| * lcuk made himself a new background | 00:30 | |
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| wazd | konttori_: dunno, it's impossible for me to install it :) | 00:33 |
| konttori_ | wazd: no vmware image available? | 00:34 |
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| lcuk | wazd, whats actually up? | 00:34 |
| wazd | lcuk: konttori_ old hands.sys drivers :) | 00:34 |
| lcuk | hands.sys? | 00:35 |
| wazd | lcuk: old joke :D | 00:35 |
| wazd | lcuk: I mean I'm too dumb to install it :) | 00:36 |
| lcuk | :) at least im not alone lol | 00:36 |
| lcuk | i have failed at installing practically everything ever in the history of mankind | 00:36 |
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| wazd | lcuk: I've installed m4 sdk though :D | 00:38 |
| lcuk | heh, me too | 00:38 |
| lcuk | but the first time i tried i destroyed the laptop OS and mustv killed at least 3 kittens | 00:38 |
| lcuk | full reinstall was needed | 00:38 |
| lcuk | but ubuntu install was refreshingly simple | 00:39 |
| lcuk | and quick | 00:39 |
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| wazd | oh my god, firefox has crashed! | 00:42 |
| wazd | first time ever I think :) | 00:42 |
| lardman | hmm, you must have more RAM than me then... | 00:42 |
| qwerty12_N810 | You're not using enough extensions, then, in that case... | 00:43 |
| wazd | lardman, I have more RAM than any human xD | 00:43 |
| lardman | that's quite a bit then :) | 00:43 |
| lardman | certainly beats my 4Gb | 00:43 |
| lcuk | lol @ more extensions | 00:43 |
| wazd | lardman, oh noes, another super-human! :) | 00:44 |
| lcuk | more ram than your operating systems can cope with | 00:44 |
| lcuk | simon, you have access to university mainframe dont you? | 00:44 |
| wazd | lcuk: x64 systems can cope with a fricking load of ram :) | 00:44 |
| lcuk | how much memory has your stuff got | 00:44 |
| lardman | lcuk: true, mine can only see ~3.5Gb as the graphics card takes up ~0.5Gb | 00:45 |
| lcuk | the operating system dictates that | 00:45 |
| lardman | strange address space on 32bit XP | 00:45 |
| lcuk | thats normal - the .5 missing is for shadow bios holes and stuff isnt it | 00:45 |
| wazd | http://www.cartype.com/pics/62/small/bmw_m5_emblem.jpg <- new maemo 5 logo | 00:45 |
| lcuk | not directly vid card memory | 00:45 |
| lardman | lcuk: can't remember to tell the truth, couldn't work out if it was the shadow stuff or graphics cards or whatever | 00:46 |
| lardman | M$ planned ahead with that decision either way ;) | 00:46 |
| lcuk | nahhh, thats global, even the linuxs cant i believe | 00:47 |
| lcuk | unless you move to 64b as wazd said | 00:47 |
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| lcuk | wazd: http://liqbase.net/bmw_m5_emblem_x.jpg my god, i need sketching on desktop, i'd forgotten how hard it is to write using mouse | 00:48 |
| wazd | lcuk: lawl :) | 00:48 |
| wazd | Does anybody know if fremantle has some divider widget that separates rows in categories? | 00:49 |
| lcuk | what rows? | 00:49 |
| lcuk | i would assume it would depend on the control you are using that needs dividing | 00:50 |
| lcuk | ie one for toolbars, one for listviews, one for normal ui elements (a frame..) | 00:50 |
| wazd | lcuk: http://www.leancrew.com/all-this/images/bloglines-iphone.png something like this for example | 00:50 |
| lardman | ~lart BBC weather for claiming it was sunny and 19C here today when in fact it was ~15C and raining cats and dogs | 00:50 |
| * infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking BBC weather's head off for claiming it was sunny and 19C here today when in fact it was ~15C and raining cats and dogs | 00:50 | |
| lardman | http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8176799.stm | 00:51 |
| javispedro | the 32bit 4GiB issue is windows professional only | 00:51 |
| lcuk | wazd, those are just alternative kinds of row elements in a list type control | 00:51 |
| lardman | I hope he competes and gets his ass handed to him on a plate | 00:51 |
| javispedro | even windows server can fully use the 4GiB (PAE to the rescue) | 00:51 |
| lcuk | ahh thanks javispedro | 00:51 |
| lardman | PAE, yes I remember reading about that | 00:51 |
| wazd | lcuk: I want to make something like this: http://s46.radikal.ru/i112/0907/40/fd89e0c3aba1.jpg | 00:52 |
| lardman | Physical Address Extension or somesuch? | 00:52 |
| lcuk | lardman, who gets whos ass handed? | 00:52 |
| javispedro | yep | 00:52 |
| lcuk | i gather you are sticking up for hamilton | 00:52 |
| wazd | lcuk: I hope you understand that I should kill you now xD | 00:52 |
| lardman | Hamilton by Schumacher of course | 00:52 |
| lardman | no was, he's a c*ck | 00:52 |
| lardman | s/was/way | 00:52 |
| lcuk | schumacher is god | 00:52 |
| lardman | indeed he is | 00:52 |
| lardman | not quite up there with Senna, but still very God-like | 00:53 |
| wazd | schumacher is a german racer :) | 00:53 |
| lcuk | i whooped and swerved the car when i heard he was racing again | 00:53 |
| lcuk | goosebumps almost | 00:53 |
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| lardman | when's the next GP then? | 00:53 |
| lcuk | we have seen his entire career | 00:53 |
| lardman | 2 weeks or so? | 00:53 |
| lcuk | no, its a bit longer | 00:53 |
| lcuk | nearer the end of the month | 00:54 |
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| lardman | will have to make sure I'm about to watch it :) | 00:54 |
| wazd | so, what's about the divider?) | 00:54 |
| lcuk | im tempted to see if i can get tickets tbh | 00:54 |
| lardman | Valencia, 21st Aug onwards | 00:54 |
| javispedro | looks like buildin scratchbox1 itself is a years old art, hopelessly forgotten at the turn of the century | 00:54 |
| lcuk | wazd, it looks like you already have that | 00:55 |
| javispedro | anyday you'll see cave paintings telling you to "cd scratchbox; ./build" | 00:55 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: be happy you don't have to build toolchains and tools for sb1. | 00:55 |
| lcuk | which part of it do you mean | 00:55 |
| Stskeeps | that part -really- gets you | 00:55 |
| lcuk | cos those ui elements dont look like they need to slide out | 00:55 |
| wazd | lcuk: that's just a mockup :) | 00:55 |
| lcuk | you can just make a section thats larger than the screen and place your stuff | 00:55 |
| lcuk | even a stylised label that looks like a divider ;) | 00:55 |
| Stskeeps | er, devkits, i mean | 00:55 |
| javispedro | finding debian sarge was hard enough ;) | 00:55 |
| * Stskeeps hugs OBS. | 00:56 | |
| lcuk | wazd, the dividers dont have to be anything complex i expect, just get something stylised and the effect will come easily | 00:56 |
| wazd | lcuk: well, it would be better if there would be dedicated widgeet in terms of theming | 00:56 |
| lcuk | that mockup reminds me greatly of the ui test i put in the first liqbase vid ;) | 00:56 |
| lcuk | can you retheme an iphone? | 00:57 |
| lcuk | or just use whats there? | 00:57 |
| lcuk | i mean beyond changing desktop and positioning of icons | 00:57 |
| wazd | lcuk: non jailbroken iphone is unthemable ;) | 00:57 |
| lcuk | can you use a different widgetset | 00:57 |
| lcuk | i didnt think so | 00:57 |
| lcuk | they got a decent theme that works - and it makes everyones life simpler ;) | 00:58 |
| lardman | pysqlite is so much more succinct than C | 00:58 |
| lcuk | wazd, with that mockup, i would see if you could get it coded up simply in gtk | 00:59 |
| lcuk | using that style locally as best as possible | 00:59 |
| lcuk | and i bet you can have it looking really good and actually working nicely quickly | 00:59 |
| wazd | lcuk: I don't want to code it, I just asked if it's already exists :D | 00:59 |
| lcuk | that looks 100000000% better than the preferences screen i remember from omweather | 00:59 |
| lcuk | i know you dont | 00:59 |
| wazd | lcuk: if not - i'll find another way :) | 00:59 |
| lcuk | its not really coding anyway | 01:00 |
| lcuk | just use the gtk dialog editor thingy that ive forgotten the name of | 01:00 |
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| lcuk | glade | 01:00 |
| lcuk | you can see quickly how it would play and export directly to pygtk and i believe get a mockup actually running without a simple "real" line of code | 01:01 |
| lcuk | wazd, everything i code i build in 2 principle steps: get the effect working in a specific case, then using the knowledge and experience of doing that, look at turning it into a generic model | 01:02 |
| lardman | lcuk: don't forget the crossing of fingers | 01:05 |
| lcuk | i never forget my fingers :) | 01:05 |
| lcuk | but yeah, theres lots of that | 01:05 |
| lardman | :) | 01:06 |
| lcuk | wazd, corners of your tickboxes arent alpha blended correctly :P you are slacking lol | 01:08 |
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| lcuk | scrollbars in liqbase are about that size too, but they are transparent | 01:08 |
| wazd | lcuk: say hello to fremantle :) | 01:09 |
| lcuk | lol, which the missing alpha or the scrollbars | 01:09 |
| wazd | lcuk: scrollbars, alpha is just lazy me :) | 01:10 |
| javispedro | wtf | 01:11 |
| lcuk | yeah ive seen the bars and stuff i dont recall though if the lists had a direct addressing mode | 01:11 |
| javispedro | so, compatibility with the randomized vdso was added in glibc 2.3.3 | 01:11 |
| javispedro | but scratchbox is using... 2.3.2 | 01:11 |
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| lcuk | hi VDVsx \o | 01:11 |
| javispedro | and the sb glibc patch seems to be 483 lines "only" | 01:11 |
| VDVsx | morning lcuk | 01:11 |
| VDVsx | lolol | 01:11 |
| * lcuk is goin camping this weekend | 01:12 | |
| lcuk | i bought a lilo today! | 01:12 |
| lcuk | errr inflatable bed | 01:12 |
| lardman | hmm, I hope you've got a dinghy to take with you | 01:12 |
| VDVsx | lilo ? | 01:12 |
| lardman | :) | 01:12 |
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| lardman | you can use a lilo in a lido | 01:12 |
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| lcuk | lardman, yeah, thankfully we are on a hill and not in the bottom of a valley | 01:13 |
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| * lardman sees mud slides | 01:13 | |
| lcuk | just hope its not something like a dried up stream | 01:13 |
| lcuk | :D oh yeahhhh | 01:13 |
| lardman | lol | 01:13 |
| lcuk | \o/ water park | 01:13 |
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| lcuk | it was bad last year | 01:13 |
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| lcuk | this year cant be any worse | 01:14 |
| lardman | lol final words | 01:14 |
| lcuk | yeah lol | 01:14 |
| florian | lcuk: repeat this afterwards ;) | 01:14 |
| lcuk | :) heh florian | 01:14 |
| lcuk | lardman, its the lake district too.. | 01:14 |
| wazd | VDVsx: heya | 01:15 |
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| lardman | well at least it will be pretty when you're swept away | 01:15 |
| wazd | VDVsx: how's the keyboard? :) | 01:15 |
| lardman | be thankful for small mercies | 01:15 |
| lcuk | yeah, 3am pitch dark travelling at 40mph through a mud torrent on an inflatable matress | 01:16 |
| lcuk | something tells me im best not taking any technology i would like to continue using | 01:16 |
| lardman | well it will certainly make their summer holiday sound cool when they get back to school! | 01:16 |
| lcuk | not goin with the family, tis lads weekend | 01:17 |
| VDVsx | wazd, didn't started yet, after a full day of coding is difficult to code again at night, I know, I'm a lazy guy :) | 01:17 |
| lardman | SAR beacon perhaps, flare gun, heliograph | 01:17 |
| lardman | nah no point with the heliograph not enough helio about | 01:17 |
| lcuk | SAR bacon more like | 01:17 |
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| lardman | lol | 01:17 |
| lcuk | flar gun can cook it in a sinch | 01:17 |
| lardman | pay the heli driver you reckon | 01:17 |
| lcuk | nahhh if the weather is that bad, id rather be on the ground | 01:18 |
| lardman | I can just see the chap dangling on the end of the wire asking "do you have any bacon", "yes", "right pilot, set us down, lunch time" | 01:18 |
| lcuk | :D | 01:18 |
| lcuk | i need one of those mountain rescue dogs | 01:18 |
| lcuk | "right, the cafe was swept away and is somewhere under all this, FIND THE BACON!" | 01:19 |
| lardman | :) | 01:19 |
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| lcuk | i got home before and went into the kitchen | 01:19 |
| lcuk | tracy had noncholently told me they had just eaten and so no tea.. | 01:20 |
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| lcuk | she ate bacon and didnt make me one! | 01:20 |
| javispedro | again talking about bacon | 01:20 |
| javispedro | what's with bacon? | 01:20 |
| lcuk | javispedro, hell yeah | 01:20 |
| lcuk | food of the gods | 01:21 |
| lardman | had you not stashed a secret supply somewhere, above the kitchen cabinets for example? | 01:21 |
| javispedro | did they release Maemo Frebacon and was the best release ever? | 01:21 |
| lardman | not yet, they're working towards it | 01:21 |
| lcuk | no lol, it never stays up there, and oinks to get down when i try | 01:21 |
| lcuk | "spider pig, spider pig" | 01:21 |
| jaska | oink | 01:21 |
| lardman | I've still not seen that film | 01:22 |
| lcuk | tis worth it :) | 01:22 |
| lcuk | if for nothing else than a whole simpsons story and no stupid adverts in the middle | 01:22 |
| * lcuk hates paying for cable tv and having adverts as well | 01:23 | |
| lardman | no cable here, just don't-lie-the-rain-at-all over the air waves | 01:23 |
| lardman | s/lie/like | 01:23 |
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| lardman | I've often sat trying to watch CSI (or anything on 5 for that matter) thinking about the failure mode of the MPEG2 decoder in my box, and why it produces green squares | 01:24 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, lcuk, buy the simpsons dvd, they come without adverts :P | 01:24 |
| lardman | genius! | 01:25 |
| lcuk | lardman, yeah digi is worse OTA than the gradial degreding analog had | 01:25 |
| lcuk | yeah VDVsx but im a skinflint | 01:25 |
| lcuk | the movie was enough | 01:25 |
| javispedro | i've often tried to sat and watch ANY modern tv series at all; I can't stand this "fuzzy cameraman" syndrome most series now come with | 01:25 |
| lcuk | lol | 01:25 |
| lcuk | its hip tho! | 01:25 |
| lardman | you don't like men with cameras and beards? | 01:25 |
| javispedro | i don't like they're ALWAYS shaking the whole image | 01:26 |
| Jaffa | lardman: All the DVB-T boxes I've seen (or, indeed, any degraded MPEG2 transmission) always ends up with those green squares IME. | 01:26 |
| javispedro | (and it's NOT my tv set ;) ) | 01:26 |
| lcuk | green is uninitialized yuv :) | 01:26 |
| lardman | javispedro: yeah agreed on that, same with films - to make the action seem actionish, but in fact you just can't see a bloody thing | 01:26 |
| lcuk | 0,0 on the UV planes | 01:26 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Ah, of course. | 01:26 |
| javispedro | lardman, i actually saw one battlestar galactica ep where they camera DID NOT stop moving the whole ep | 01:26 |
| * lcuk learnt that quickly with liqbase | 01:26 | |
| lardman | is that what colour it comes out then? | 01:26 |
| lcuk | yeah lardman | 01:27 |
| lcuk | its why also when codecs on windows break you normally get a green back too | 01:27 |
| lardman | javispedro: BSG is better than say the start of the latest Bond, or the fight in the last Bourne | 01:27 |
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| lardman | ah, learn something new every day | 01:27 |
| lardman | mmm, Python is nice | 01:30 |
| lcuk | it has its advantages | 01:30 |
| lardman | less typing | 01:30 |
| lcuk | great as a binding glue between libraries | 01:30 |
| jaska | glue sniffing | 01:31 |
| lcuk | does python have introspection? | 01:31 |
| lcuk | o_O it does | 01:31 |
| lardman | I don't really know what it is | 01:31 |
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| Stskeeps | it has insane introspection, too | 01:31 |
| lardman | knowing what class a given variable is? | 01:31 |
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| lcuk | yeah, ability from code to recognise and do things based on the class its coming from | 01:32 |
| javispedro | yes, but a bit "beefed up" | 01:32 |
| javispedro | cause those days even C++ has typeinfo | 01:32 |
| lcuk | so the ability to pass an anonymous object in and have the ui show the available actions in a toolstrip is easy | 01:32 |
| * Jaffa thinks - in the absence of a decent Java runtime - most of his Maemo dev is going to be in Python from now on | 01:32 | |
| Jaffa | Anyone with a Fremantle device want to test http://maemo.org/packages/view/attitude/ and let me know if it's still works, post-rename (from Horizon)? | 01:33 |
| lcuk | :) | 01:33 |
| Jaffa | If so, I'll try X-Fade's extras-testing promotion thingy | 01:33 |
| lardman | yeah, give me 5 min | 01:33 |
| javispedro | attitude install "fear of flying" | 01:34 |
| lcuk | o_O | 01:34 |
| lardman | :p | 01:34 |
| lardman | if only | 01:34 |
| Jaffa | tart | 01:34 |
| lardman | lol | 01:34 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: :) | 01:34 |
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| Jaffa | Oh, wow. Channel 4 OD has a Flash-based version which works in Linux now | 01:35 |
| javispedro | it's a nice name :) | 01:35 |
| wazd | VDVsx: oh, np :) | 01:35 |
| lardman | hmm, still need to build a box for under the TV so I can sit in comfort and watch the OD stuff | 01:36 |
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| lcuk | what kind of box would you build | 01:37 |
| lcuk | and how would you control it | 01:37 |
| * Jaffa 's got a nice box under the telly. Which had its mobo sent back for ages; and now is PSUless. | 01:37 | |
| lardman | is it quiet? | 01:37 |
| lcuk | im guessing, very | 01:37 |
| lardman | lcuk: wireless kb for the serious stuff, otherwise IR + remote | 01:37 |
| lardman | quiet is usually expensive | 01:38 |
| lcuk | that wasnt a trick q by the way - you have nokia tablets | 01:38 |
| lardman | ah I see | 01:38 |
| lcuk | i use mine to control the computer | 01:38 |
| lardman | yeah might be good, glorified remote control :) | 01:38 |
| lcuk | yeah bluemaemo or something | 01:38 |
| lardman | I might be able to use mine to override the wife's choice of viewing - no Ugly Betty for example, switch to World at War or the like | 01:39 |
| lcuk | ive got a little something that talks via sockets | 01:39 |
| lardman | sockets through the sockets? | 01:39 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Yeah. I used to have a fanless Mini-ITX; but I've now got an AMD with a quiet fan and an Antec quiet case | 01:39 |
| lcuk | no little remote control, ive got a silly little daemon on windows | 01:39 |
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| lardman | Jaffa: next time round, now that digiral tuners are getting more reasonable | 01:40 |
| lcuk | that converts the commands to "sendkeys" operations to control the media player in front | 01:40 |
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| lardman | lol no automation objects? | 01:40 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090624_222446.lib.scr.png nahhh | 01:40 |
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| lardman | sendkeys is a bit old-skool | 01:40 |
| lcuk | i had to watch a movie the night i wrote it | 01:40 |
| lardman | fair enough | 01:40 |
| wazd | is there any screenshot of fremantle's volume/seek bar? | 01:41 |
| lcuk | besides, the ir remote control it replaced used to also work on keys | 01:41 |
| lcuk | it was great because it worked on multitple things almost without config | 01:41 |
| lardman | true, that is useful | 01:41 |
| lcuk | volume seek bar? | 01:41 |
| lcuk | i havent seen anything media | 01:41 |
| lcuk | it used to sit inline with the keyboard itself | 01:41 |
| lcuk | was a great little thing i had it for years | 01:41 |
| lcuk | os agnostic and reliable | 01:42 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: ping | 01:44 |
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| esaym153 | what is the latest version of os2008? | 01:48 |
| esaym153 | Just got my new 810 in | 01:48 |
| lardman | <unknown> in my case | 01:49 |
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| lardman | anyone got a non-Mer kernel flashed? | 01:51 |
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| lcuk | i have, but im out of juice | 01:52 |
| lcuk | im goin anyway, gotta pack and stuff for tomorrow | 01:54 |
| lardman | esaym153: I reckon it's probably DIABLO_5.2008.43-7 | 01:54 |
| lcuk | gnite chaps (emulating lardman!) | 01:54 |
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| esaym153 | lardman: yea that is what I think I got. I didn't know they put the latest on new 810's? | 01:55 |
| esaym153 | guess so? | 01:55 |
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| lardman | well there are some updates since then, over the interweb | 01:56 |
| lardman | I imagine they would put the latest build on the machines if they can | 01:56 |
| Jaffa | esaym153: Depends on when things are manufactured, I guess. | 01:57 |
| esaym153 | for some reason I thought that ssu was never put on new 810's | 01:57 |
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| wazd | oh, I've found it! | 02:16 |
| wazd | http://static.maemo.org/static/7/79a662b4389c11de84fc715fab1629e929e9_controlpanel.PNG | 02:16 |
| lardman | night night all | 02:17 |
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| esaym153 | anyone use psp screen protectors on these? | 02:18 |
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| wazd | esaym153: I've used for a while | 02:23 |
| esaym153 | any good? | 02:23 |
| wazd | esaym153: well, psp protector definitely not made for stylus using :) | 02:23 |
| esaym153 | ohh... | 02:24 |
| esaym153 | well waht are some good protectors? Or do I really need any? | 02:24 |
| wazd | esaym153: well, I'm using my n800 without protector | 02:25 |
| wazd | esaym153: yes, screen is slightly scratched but I've bought it to use, not to store or resell :) | 02:26 |
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| caotic | ahh if there only where a way to integrate a cellphone to the n810, mabe controlling the cellphone using bluetooth | 02:45 |
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| esaym153 | hmm, I can't seem to play any of the audio files that came with my 810. Do you have to install audio codecs or something? | 02:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Screen_protector | 02:49 |
| Jaffa | esaym153: Not for WAV/MP3/AAC files, no. How are you trying to play them? What happens? | 02:50 |
| esaym153 | I am trying to set the alarm clock, when I select any of the supplied sound files it says "nothing to play" | 02:51 |
| esaym153 | same in media player | 02:51 |
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| k-s | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qENNJsDWMJk | 03:02 |
| k-s | do you like it? share please ;-) | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | k-s, it's awful. | 03:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | What? | 03:03 |
| k-s | ehehehe | 03:03 |
| k-s | sucker | 03:04 |
| VDVsx | k-s, just twity it :P | 03:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm predicting the album art Ken Burns effect will end with me putting my tablet through a concrete block. | 03:04 |
| javispedro | of an apple store wall. | 03:05 |
| k-s | GeneralAntilles: it's for cars | 03:05 |
| k-s | in car entertainment systems | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | k-s, interesting selection of pictures. :P | 03:05 |
| k-s | we'll publish videos running on N810 and imx31/35 | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | k-s, well, my tablet is my in-car entertainment system. | 03:05 |
| k-s | GeneralAntilles: everybody loves it | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | k-s, maybe if it didn't start over every time you changed screens. | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | As it stands, it feels really jerky and irritating. | 03:06 |
| k-s | ? | 03:06 |
| k-s | where? | 03:06 |
| javispedro | the first 15 seconds of the video | 03:06 |
| VDVsx | the paris pthoto, I guess | 03:06 |
| k-s | ehehe, i see | 03:07 |
| javispedro | it reminds me of some arcade machine, dunno why | 03:07 |
| k-s | it's defined by theme, so we can change that without changing code | 03:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, yeah, me too. | 03:09 |
| lcuk | k-s, :) very slick. my hat is off dude | 03:11 |
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| esaym153 | yea I copied an mp3 file over and I can't play that in the media player either :( | 03:15 |
| esaym153 | any tips? | 03:15 |
| esaym153 | hmm, maybe a restart will fix it.... | 03:17 |
| esaym153 | yes, restart fixed it.... | 03:19 |
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| esaym153 | is RoxTerm the only other terminal that one can install? | 03:30 |
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| * esaym153 lost his stylus already | 03:36 | |
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| wazd | k-s: efl? :) | 03:40 |
| wazd | k-s: in fact it's restyled canola, isn't it? :) | 03:41 |
| k-s | oh yeah | 03:41 |
| k-s | wazd: not restyled, reworked | 03:41 |
| k-s | it's not just a face lift | 03:41 |
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| wazd | running video previws are a bit scarry :) | 03:42 |
| wazd | k-s: btw, quick usability tip | 03:44 |
| wazd | k-s: since it's in-car system - try to orient playback controls on the left | 03:45 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, wouldn't want the missus to change songs.. ;p | 03:45 |
| wazd | k-s: since you'll sit on the left to the screen in most cases | 03:45 |
| k-s | wazd: eh, this is a demo... for cars we have real hw keys :-) | 03:45 |
| wazd | k-s: anyway, for those poor people without keys :) | 03:47 |
| k-s | ehehe :-) | 03:48 |
| wazd | k-s: like me :) I have to pay fracking zillion of dollars to connect my steering controls to the media center | 03:48 |
| wazd | k-s: screw it :) | 03:48 |
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| k-s | ehehe, ok | 03:49 |
| k-s | gotta run, SIGWIFE | 03:49 |
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| wazd | k-s[AWAY]: cya :) | 03:49 |
| wazd | omg, it's dawn already | 03:50 |
| esaym153 | where is the pipe key?? "|" | 03:50 |
| javispedro | press "Chr" | 03:50 |
| esaym153 | javispedro: not there | 03:51 |
| esaym153 | n/m | 03:51 |
| javispedro | there is a | 03:51 |
| javispedro | ok | 03:51 |
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| esaym153 | I never knew how much fun I can have using vim with this keyboard.... | 03:56 |
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| esaym153 | anyway to use arrow keys or make a short cut? | 04:27 |
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| ml-37 | i just got a quick Q i have a palm foldable btkb beleived to be HID and a n770 that worked outta the box on OS2006SE but earlier today i installed OS2008HE and i cant get it to pair for the life of me. any ideas | 07:16 |
| esaym153 | does the web cam on the 810 work with any im clients? | 07:19 |
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| Macer | Stskeeps: awake? | 07:37 |
| Macer | where did you say i culd get a q7 | 07:37 |
| Macer | ? | 07:37 |
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| Macer | nm | 07:41 |
| Macer | found a few different places | 07:41 |
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| Macer | blah. sure wish tigerdirect just had some n810s | 07:41 |
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| esaym153 | I just bought a new 810 from shopcell.com | 07:48 |
| ml-37 | heh | 07:49 |
| chx | i found an affordable one on eBay | 07:49 |
| esaym153 | http://tinyurl.com/lsp9gz | 07:49 |
| chx | so glad to have one | 07:49 |
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| Izy | Hi everyone | 07:51 |
| Macer | esaym153: i thought they only sell accessories | 07:52 |
| Luke-Jr | http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/anime/gardner.avi | 07:52 |
| Macer | where do they sell the n810s? | 07:52 |
| Luke-Jr | esaym153: wow, ripoff | 07:52 |
| esaym153 | Macer: I don't know but that is where I just bought mine at, got it today | 07:53 |
| esaym153 | Luke-Jr: I am happy | 07:53 |
| Luke-Jr | >_< | 07:53 |
| Luke-Jr | esaym153: watch teh video | 07:53 |
| ml-37 | amazon has them | 07:55 |
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| Luke-Jr | so do I | 07:55 |
| k-s | http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/967tu/project_memphis_fancy_incar_entertainment_system/ <-- help :-) | 07:56 |
| Izy | Hi everyone | 07:58 |
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| Izy | Is there anyone ready to help me trying wormux over hamachi? | 07:59 |
| Luke-Jr | wtf | 08:00 |
| Izy | Ithe game | 08:00 |
| Izy | Wormux | 08:00 |
| Izy | Luke sounds french | 08:01 |
| Izy | Are u french? | 08:02 |
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| Macer | uhm | 08:03 |
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| Luke-Jr | wtf | 08:23 |
| Luke-Jr | ok going to bed 4 real now | 08:23 |
| * RST38h yawns | 08:25 | |
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| * ml-37 shoots self ... shoots self again for not hitting ENTER after putting in the passkey in the btkb to make it pair. | 08:47 | |
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| t_s_o | hmm, did maemo.org just flatline, or is it just the forum thats having issues? | 08:48 |
| t_s_o | ok, its just the forum... | 08:50 |
| ml-37 | slow but just loaded | 08:50 |
| RST38h | t_s_o: This is the last days. | 08:51 |
| caotic | esaym153: so you finally got your n810, congrats ! | 08:51 |
| caotic | esaym153: it nice when shippments get on earlier than expected | 08:51 |
| caotic | esaym153: after you get familiar with your n810, you may want to take a look at http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/mediaserv.html | 08:53 |
| caotic | its fawesome | 08:53 |
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| caotic | k-s: who the hell needs so many pictures of victoria secret models ... IN A CAR | 09:02 |
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| rmt__ | Holiday in southern Italy starts now! Ciao all! | 10:38 |
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| aquatix | morning all | 10:44 |
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| X-Fade | Morning | 10:51 |
| X-Fade | mikkov_: ping? | 10:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | hello world | 10:54 |
| timeless_mbp | does Maemo 4.1 support GIO? | 10:54 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes someone | 10:56 | |
| timeless_mbp | answer: no | 10:56 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: ping | 11:14 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Pong | 11:14 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: I can't promote http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/attitude/0.0.6 as it says "dependency python2.5-osso could not be found in the database". | 11:15 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Even though it's got an "|" dep which can be satisfied. | 11:16 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: You get this error on promotion, right? | 11:16 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Correct | 11:17 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Ok, then there is a bug ;) | 11:17 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I'll import the data into the internal test machine and will check it out. | 11:18 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Thanks | 11:18 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: At least it is getting tested now :) | 11:18 |
| filip42 | Hi everyone | 11:19 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: :) | 11:19 |
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| filip42 | Just found this picture : http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/07/29/nokia-n97-mini-gets-pictured-in-the-wild/ wich remind me of : http://www.graphmobile.com/news-3674.htm rover | 11:20 |
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| Jaffa | filip42: See the last few posts on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29151 - basic conclusion is it looks similar, but probably isn't | 11:23 |
| X-Fade | Brothers or cousins likely. | 11:24 |
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| filip42 | thx for the link Jaffa, and sorry to not have found the post at maemo :) | 11:27 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: It seems that OR checking is missing for that part ;) | 11:27 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: So I know now what to fix. | 11:28 |
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| florian | good morning | 11:29 |
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| cpm | Hi, for Maemo4 SDK, can I install another gcc? Currently gcc 3.4 is installed, how can I install gcc 4? | 11:34 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: cool | 11:34 |
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| lardman | morning | 12:37 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Ah, the plot thickens. As you are the first app using python, it needs to promote that too. | 12:39 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Ah. So it can't work out the dep graph in that circumstance? | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Well it didn't because there was a bug in the OR part. | 12:42 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Looks fixed on the test system now. Altough I have to verify each package by hand to be sure ;) | 12:42 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: 17 packages in all ;) | 12:43 |
| Jaffa | Automated regression testing FTW | 12:43 |
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| X-Fade | jeremiah_afk: ping? | 12:57 |
| lardman | aargh | 13:00 |
| lardman | bloody camera settings | 13:00 |
| wazd | hello maemo :) | 13:01 |
| X-Fade | ~seen jeremiah_afk | 13:02 |
| infobot | jeremiah_afk is currently on #maemo, last said: 'It is a little disappointing that the screen is getting smaller.'. | 13:02 |
| lbt | jeremiah_afk: fancy helping out on Mer at all? | 13:02 |
| X-Fade | infobot, dude your missing important information.. When? :) | 13:02 |
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| lardman | any pysqlite experts about? | 13:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: irc log can answer that question :) | 13:23 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: Yeah, it can. But I'm lazy. | 13:23 |
| timeless_mbp | at least you aren't out of disk space. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/407295 | 13:23 |
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| lcuk | lardman, don't ask to ask :P | 14:09 |
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| RST38h | moo lcuk, lardman | 14:09 |
| lcuk | hey rst | 14:09 |
| wazd | RST38h: heya | 14:10 |
| RST38h | heya wazd | 14:11 |
| * RST38h watches disoriented maemo.org bloggers bury the filesystem | 14:11 | |
| RST38h | I mean, folks, just because you happen to use a bunch of badly engineered apps does not mean that the filesystem is coming to the end | 14:12 |
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| lardman | lcuk: it was more not wanting to flood the channel with stuff that no-one's interested in | 14:17 |
| lardman | hi RST38h | 14:17 |
| lardman | anyway must go do some testing now, bloody camera | 14:17 |
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| lcuk | ive just done a load of sqlite stuff | 14:17 |
| lcuk | not pysqlite, but sqlite stuff all the same | 14:18 |
| * RST38h just had to delete a few FireFox sqlite files as they got corrupted | 14:18 | |
| RST38h | Which pretty much summarizes the problem with apps refusing to use the filesystem | 14:18 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, im just moving towards database now | 14:19 |
| lcuk | files are great until the quantity grows | 14:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Expect the above problem. | 14:19 |
| lcuk | and theres no indexing allowed | 14:19 |
| lcuk | i understand entirely | 14:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: the optimal strategy is to mix both | 14:20 |
| RST38h | lcuk: In a logical way | 14:20 |
| lcuk | the only practical way to keep files is to abstract the filename itself | 14:20 |
| lcuk | and then you are left with an anonymous datafile | 14:20 |
| lcuk | which is just as bad in a way | 14:20 |
| RST38h | There is no need to abstract filenames | 14:20 |
| lcuk | sure there is | 14:20 |
| lcuk | ive got 1 sketch "blah" | 14:20 |
| RST38h | If you can't clearly tell what your file contains in a few words, your design is wrong | 14:21 |
| lcuk | but it has been edited 20 times over different periods | 14:21 |
| RST38h | and? | 14:21 |
| lcuk | currently that would make 20 records | 14:21 |
| RST38h | ok, so you keep all edits in a single file | 14:21 |
| RST38h | called blah | 14:21 |
| lcuk | so each file type must implement its own version control | 14:22 |
| RST38h | if you are smart, you will keep the most recent version at the beginning of the file, then have some kind of a termination tag, and THEN store optional history | 14:22 |
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| lcuk | and how do you do that with existing filetypes - jpeg/png etc | 14:22 |
| RST38h | lcuk: And why is it a problem? | 14:22 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Store them as blobs inside file | 14:23 |
| RST38h | If this is what you want to do | 14:23 |
| lcuk | but that is just a database | 14:23 |
| RST38h | I would just link to them, by name | 14:23 |
| lcuk | that does not help | 14:23 |
| RST38h | this isn't a database | 14:23 |
| RST38h | It is a set of data items embedded into your document | 14:23 |
| lcuk | just because you make your own custom database format | 14:23 |
| lcuk | you just defined a database | 14:24 |
| RST38h | it is still really far from the database | 14:24 |
| lcuk | just because it doesnt use tables and fields.. | 14:24 |
| RST38h | well, you see, relational db uses tables and fields by definition | 14:24 |
| lcuk | but thats not what the database rant was about | 14:24 |
| RST38h | and also introduces a lot of other stuff | 14:24 |
| lcuk | it was generic blobbing of data into one abstract file | 14:24 |
| RST38h | Oh I know what the database rant was about | 14:24 |
| RST38h | depends on what data | 14:25 |
| RST38h | there is just a bunch of data types that require blobbing | 14:25 |
| lcuk | so, going back - how do i reproducably manage a set of individual files | 14:25 |
| RST38h | lcuk: tar | 14:25 |
| RST38h | lcuk: This is what OpenOffice does I think | 14:25 |
| lcuk | i already know this because i do it myself with sketches, but it becomes unmanagable beyond a limit | 14:25 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Again depends on what you are doing | 14:25 |
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| RST38h | I do not see why you would need a real relational db here though | 14:26 |
| lcuk | grouping and tagging and evolution of sketches from others | 14:26 |
| lcuk | hard with just files (believe me, i tried...) | 14:26 |
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| lbt | 1 directory/file | 14:36 |
| lbt | blah/jpg | 14:37 |
| lbt | blah/xml | 14:37 |
| lbt | blah/history | 14:37 |
| lbt | blah/png | 14:37 |
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| lbt | if you put something 'in a file' use a directory... they nest too | 14:38 |
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| lbt | and symlink | 14:38 |
| lbt | and link | 14:38 |
| lbt | and .. other stuff | 14:38 |
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| lbt | blah/.git | 14:38 |
| lcuk | lbt, rather complex tho lol | 14:39 |
| lbt | whereas inventing your own db is easy | 14:39 |
| lbt | it's not complex... it's transparent | 14:39 |
| lcuk | using an existing database is quite logical | 14:39 |
| lbt | sure, a filesystem is a db | 14:39 |
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| lbt | people just don't think of it as one | 14:40 |
| lcuk | and gives you the functions for processing them in a nice little compact syntax | 14:40 |
| lbt | ls | 14:40 |
| lbt | find | 14:40 |
| lbt | grep -R | 14:40 |
| lbt | chmod | 14:40 |
| lbt | mv | 14:40 |
| lbt | cp | 14:40 |
| lbt | cat | 14:40 |
| lbt | > | 14:40 |
| lbt | << | 14:40 |
| lbt | just sayin' ;) | 14:41 |
| lcuk | can handle many thousands of things more efficiently than files | 14:41 |
| lcuk | you are right | 14:41 |
| lcuk | for just sayin | 14:41 |
| lcuk | and i used it quite well for some things | 14:41 |
| lcuk | but theres other stuff that i couldnt do | 14:42 |
| lcuk | easily | 14:42 |
| lbt | investigate hash dbs like gdbm | 14:42 |
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| lbt | sql is rarely the right answer | 14:43 |
| lbt | it's just a common answer | 14:43 |
| lbt | sql sucks | 14:43 |
| javispedro | missing the BeOS again? (database as filesystem and all that) | 14:43 |
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| lcuk | sql is an ondisk reprecsentation of c structs. | 14:44 |
| javispedro | what a weird definition | 14:45 |
| javispedro | ;) | 14:45 |
| lcuk | well i would in the past have written "records" as being multitples of structs | 14:45 |
| lcuk | now, i gain a nice thing where i can do indexing and searching without having to write it myself | 14:45 |
| javispedro | I kinda liked the be approach to this topic | 14:46 |
| javispedro | mails (as read by the mail client) were "files" | 14:46 |
| lcuk | but at the low level, they are just my structs | 14:46 |
| javispedro | files = records on a database | 14:46 |
| javispedro | the mail client just cared about his own namespace of fields in that database | 14:46 |
| javispedro | but you were free to add any fields you wished | 14:46 |
| javispedro | gives in a new light to this "where are my files????????" problem ;) | 14:47 |
| * lcuk doesnt like files anyway and named most stuff with a big long practically guid name anyway | 14:48 | |
| lcuk | ill have to vanish tho | 14:48 |
| lcuk | \o cyas later | 14:48 |
| javispedro | think about it: store your sketches in a database; but let other programs add their own fields to each sketch record | 14:49 |
| lbt | and store indexes in gdbm | 14:49 |
| RST38h | os does not provide apis to access db files | 14:49 |
| javispedro | the new tracker is going to be cool :) | 14:49 |
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| RST38h | os also cant change db files for integrity and repair them | 14:50 |
| lbt | true RST38h - but indexes are optimisations, not data | 14:50 |
| RST38h | so using db files is a bad idea | 14:50 |
| javispedro | RST38h, then standarize | 14:50 |
| lbt | delete them and nothing should be lost | 14:50 |
| RST38h | yes, having a separate optional index is ok | 14:50 |
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| javispedro | standarize not as part of the kernel but as part of the Operating System | 14:50 |
| javispedro | e.g. Access Linux Platform says sqlite is the OS "file format" | 14:50 |
| RST38h | javis: people tried that before | 14:51 |
| RST38h | flopped every time | 14:51 |
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| RST38h | mainly because this crap is so complicated that it becomes unreliable | 14:51 |
| RST38h | adding db features to the filesystem is more realistic and has also been tried (beos) | 14:51 |
| RST38h | but having a separate index file that can be rebuilt is really the way to go | 14:52 |
| javispedro | separate index = use tracker | 14:53 |
| RST38h | tracker will be a disaster btw | 14:53 |
| RST38h | remember my words :) | 14:53 |
| RST38h | will make you long for the metalayer crawler | 14:53 |
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| javispedro | so you're asking for some software that "indexes files", get some, and say it's crap? | 14:54 |
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| RST38h | I am not asking for anything actually | 14:55 |
| RST38h | I am saying that if you absolutely want to index your stuff, make a separate optional index | 14:55 |
| RST38h | rather than bind it with your files | 14:55 |
| RST38h | Personally, I never you system wide file indexing and always end up turning it off for performance and space concerns | 14:56 |
| RST38h | s/you/use | 14:56 |
| javispedro | me neither as is now | 14:56 |
| javispedro | cause I virtually have to battle with the indexer for _each_ file format I want to index | 14:57 |
| RST38h | namely, I spent a few days killing tracker on my ubuntu system and deleting 300+MB of indices it creates | 14:57 |
| RST38h | so, if anything like this repeats in fremantle (and it will given that fremantle tracker is developed by modest author)... | 14:57 |
| javispedro | well, to repeat myself, I kinda licked the Be way... | 14:58 |
| javispedro | s/licked/liked/ | 14:59 |
| infobot | javispedro meant: well, to repeat myself, I kinda liked the Be way... | 14:59 |
| javispedro | (:P) | 14:59 |
| * lbt preferred the first version | 14:59 | |
| RST38h | heh | 14:59 |
| lbt | gcc is scary | 15:00 |
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| javispedro | and takes ages to build | 15:01 |
| lbt | do we need fortran on Mer? | 15:01 |
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| RST38h | yessss | 15:05 |
| RST38h | and ada too | 15:05 |
| lbt | excellent, a volunteer :) | 15:05 |
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| lbt | right | 15:05 |
| lbt | first you need a Mer Build setup... | 15:06 |
| lbt | let me know when you're there :) | 15:06 |
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| thux | what about cobol | 15:09 |
| lcuk | i say we nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure. | 15:09 |
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| VDVsx | when should be the next council election ? | 15:18 |
| VDVsx | s/should/will/ | 15:19 |
| infobot | VDVsx meant: when will be the next council election ? | 15:19 |
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| VDVsx | humm, election in September and assignment in October ? | 15:23 |
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| lcuk | VDVsx, with a pyr for formercouncil members in november (5th afiak) | 15:26 |
| lcuk | pyre * | 15:26 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, lol, bad lcuk | 15:27 |
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| lcuk | VDVsx, burning lardman was the only way we managed to get through the cold spring months ;) | 15:35 |
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| hendry | i'm looking for a screen capture tool for diablo | 15:38 |
| jaem | single image, or video? | 15:39 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, lol, poor lardman ;) | 15:39 |
| hendry | jaem: both ideally actually | 15:39 |
| jaem | hendry: the LoadApplet will give you screenshooting abilities | 15:40 |
| hendry | jaem: which package is it a part of? apt-cache search LoadApplet revealed nadda | 15:41 |
| jaem | as for recording, my guess is that you'd best do that over VNC or similar - I doubt the N810 could record screencap videos well | 15:41 |
| jaem | one sec - sorry, I've stayed up all night, and my thinker isn't thinking so well | 15:41 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: Yup, next election in September; so next sprint is going to be gearing up for it (bergie fixing karma bugs, someone sorting the tmo accounts etc.] | 15:41 |
| bergie | I wonder if the plan is to integrate TMO accounts to the rest of maemo.org and when | 15:42 |
| VDVsx | so, new council at the summit ;) | 15:42 |
| jaem | hendry: load-applet | 15:42 |
| jaem | it's good to have anyway, especially so you know when your tablet is under heavy load, so you don't make it worse ;) | 15:42 |
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| Jaffa | bergie: For the purposes of the election, I think it's going to have to be treating them specially (if the profile isn't linked to from a maemo.org account) | 15:44 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: Yup. And maybe lots of new faces (some'd be better than others) | 15:44 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, people can link accounts | 15:44 |
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| hendry | jaem: and what about video? | 15:44 |
| jaem | hendry: as I said, you're probably better off remoting the screen to your desktop, and recording it there | 15:45 |
| bergie | Jaffa: if users supply their TMO URL then they get karma for that too | 15:45 |
| jaem | although I haven't tried | 15:45 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: Indeed. However, the basic rule is that any tmo account older than 3 months, with more posts to meet the karma threshold, they should be able to vote. | 15:45 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, ah right :P | 15:45 |
| hendry | jaem: ah vnc | 15:45 |
| Jaffa | Now, perhaps a mass mail to all eligible tmo accounts which aren't already linked to a maemo.org account is appropriate. | 15:45 |
| jaem | hendry: yep | 15:46 |
| Jaffa | And then the account age stuff needs to take into account it might be a new maemo.org account linking to an old tmo account. Which should therefore be eligible to vote. | 15:46 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, last year presentation of the council at the summit was a LT, right ? | 15:47 |
| Jaffa | No, it was a half hour session | 15:50 |
| Jaffa | Introducing the council, the members and a Q&A | 15:50 |
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| * Jaffa would say the council should be expected to do a kick-off presentation towards the start of the community day | 15:50 | |
| Jaffa | And if they aren't willing to, should be executed. | 15:51 |
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| jaem | Jaffa: sh ./maemo-council ? | 15:53 |
| jaem | oh wait | 15:53 |
| jaem | you meant that the other way | 15:53 |
| jaem | riiight | 15:53 |
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| Veggen | mmm, wish I could be at Dolomite mapping weekend. | 15:55 |
| Veggen | But alas, my dolomite visit was a week ago, and far too short for any mapping at all, since I had people to visit there. | 15:55 |
| Veggen | urk, #wrong channel. | 15:55 |
| Jaffa | jaem: :) | 15:59 |
| jaem | kill -9 `pidof maemo-council` | 15:59 |
| jaem | that's better | 15:59 |
| Jaffa | jaem: Yeah, let's not test it yet. I'm still enjoying the power *cough* | 15:59 |
| jaem | hehe | 16:00 |
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| jaska | -11 and leave a core to debug | 16:00 |
| VDVsx | lolol | 16:00 |
| VDVsx | jaem, you don't need the pid, just use pkill ;) | 16:01 |
| jaem | VDVsx: I think I vaguely remember that ;) | 16:01 |
| jaska | or killall.. unless youre on solaris :) | 16:01 |
| jaem | yep | 16:01 |
| jaem | so, did you folks hear about the big iPhone vulnerability? | 16:07 |
| jaska | yes.. and hah | 16:08 |
| jaem | indeed | 16:08 |
| jaem | and they haven't patched it, given a month's notice >_< | 16:08 |
| jaem | that's just terrible | 16:08 |
| jaska | dont see why people give more than 72 hours anyway | 16:08 |
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| VDVsx | jaem, link ?, what vulnerability ? :) | 16:14 |
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| jaem | VDVsx: http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=6892 | 16:15 |
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| jaem | SMS exploit | 16:15 |
| jaem | they can own your phone by sending crafted messages, most of which you won't see | 16:15 |
| jaem | full control, including dialing | 16:15 |
| jaem | and, of course, your address book, to spread the love | 16:15 |
| jaem | -snerk- | 16:15 |
| VDVsx | neat, lolol | 16:16 |
| jaem | well, not really | 16:16 |
| Jaffa | jaem: Of course, if Rover contains SMS functionality I wonder if it'll have anything similar | 16:16 |
| jaem | if they sploit gets out before they patch it, we could have chaos, considering how many iPhone users there are out there | 16:16 |
| jaem | Jaffa: that's an interesting thought | 16:16 |
| jaem | the Forbes article linked to in that post mentions that very little thought has been given to SMS security, because it didn't used to be an issue | 16:17 |
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| jaem | but then smartphones came along... :P | 16:17 |
| jaem | pretty nasty, though - worse than a drive-by, given that all you have to do is have a vulnerable phone *turned on* | 16:18 |
| VDVsx | is apple trying to reach a new market - terrorists | 16:18 |
| Jaffa | If you get control of a remote phone, not just sending it to everyone in the address book; but also random numbers | 16:18 |
| VDVsx | also : http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/07/jailbreak/ | 16:18 |
| jaem | yep | 16:18 |
| lcuk | is it possible to actually send a virus down this vector? | 16:20 |
| lcuk | ie target other iphone users on same network with dodgy sms messages.. | 16:20 |
| jaem | lcuk: that's what the article said | 16:20 |
| lcuk | cool! | 16:20 |
| jaem | lcuk: btw, the liqbase-playground package in extras-devel is looking mighty cool | 16:21 |
| jaem | :D | 16:21 |
| lcuk | if i wrote that virus - i would have it do a lawnmower man and ring everyones phone at same time :$ | 16:21 |
| jaem | ahahaha | 16:21 |
| jaem | everyone? everywhere? | 16:21 |
| lcuk | jaem :D its only an engine :) the apps are being built right now | 16:21 |
| jaem | do it | 16:21 |
| jaem | lcuk: what sort of apps? | 16:22 |
| jaem | maybe I'm just missing things, but I haven't found much concrete information about where you're heading with it | 16:22 |
| lcuk | database enabled: http://liqbase.net/liq.20090728_013953.liqbase_net.scr.png full proper tagging/rating/searching of scketches | 16:22 |
| jaem | although whereever it is, it's cool | 16:22 |
| jaem | nice! | 16:22 |
| lcuk | graffiti wall now allows viewing sketeches+photos+cal +text entries | 16:22 |
| lcuk | all in the same wall | 16:22 |
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| jaem | what was that that you were alluding to about multitouch the other day? | 16:23 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liqbase_net_preview.png and network syncing and web interface for those without tablets :) | 16:23 |
| jaem | on that blog comment | 16:23 |
| lcuk | no, that is relating to the interaction in the graffiti wall :) | 16:23 |
| lcuk | im trying to allow lists to have various views. switching between those views should be slick and smooth, i think i have the mechanism, and i certainly have the multitouch swipe ready :) | 16:24 |
| lcuk | anyway, im off camping, cyas monday \o | 16:25 |
| jaem | have fun! | 16:25 |
| dneary | hi | 16:25 |
| dneary | baloo around? | 16:25 |
| dneary | VDVsx: Ping? | 16:25 |
| VDVsx | dneary, pokrKna | 16:26 |
| VDVsx | lol | 16:26 |
| VDVsx | *pong | 16:26 |
| VDVsx | sorry pokrKna :( | 16:26 |
| VDVsx | qt dev days registration - €499 ouch :( | 16:27 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 16:27 |
| Macer | damn | 16:28 |
| Macer | wtf does it take to start to lose a bid haha | 16:28 |
| Macer | someone has to want this n810 for 222.50 | 16:28 |
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| Macer | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290334386372&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT | 16:29 |
| Macer | someone bid on that :) | 16:29 |
| Macer | haha | 16:29 |
| Macer | so i'm not the highest bidder anymore | 16:30 |
| dneary | VDVsx: I'm pretty down on most of the proposals in the queue now | 16:30 |
| dneary | Not ranking my own | 16:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Macer: If you pay me 223.50, I'll do it | 16:30 |
| dneary | I think the schedule is far too developer-only heavy | 16:30 |
| Macer | lol | 16:31 |
| VDVsx | dneary, same opinion :( | 16:31 |
| Macer | qwerty12_N810: 222.50 ;) | 16:31 |
| Macer | is what the next bid has to be | 16:31 |
| Macer | it just sucks that i know someone is going to do it at the 11th hour right before it ends | 16:31 |
| Macer | and i'm going to lose.. and i could have used this time to just order it direct frm somewhere | 16:31 |
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| Macer | have to admit though. pkt auction ebay is pretty awesome for android :) | 16:32 |
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| Macer | really. to tell the truth. android hasn't been bad at all | 16:34 |
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| Macer | it's pretty good minus teh flood of bullshit apps that really suck | 16:34 |
| Macer | but i suppose that's any OS | 16:34 |
| dneary | VDVsx: Worried the gang of 4 proposals are getting an easy pass :) | 16:34 |
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| Macer | wow | 16:36 |
| VDVsx | dneary, Well, I think your presentation (doc's co-creation) and Andre's is really useful and needed | 16:37 |
| Macer | a san antonio woman | 16:37 |
| sge | on n810 my aplay says device or resource busy, and when I do /usr/sbin/dspctl suspend or resume it suddenly starts working. Does anyone know what is really going on and how that aplay should work? | 16:37 |
| Macer | killed and ate her 3wk old baby? | 16:37 |
| Macer | wtf? | 16:37 |
| jaem | good morning | 16:37 |
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| dneary | Macer: Is there a famine going on out there? | 16:38 |
| javispedro | sge: I would suggest esdplay | 16:38 |
| sge | javispedro: I'm kinda forced to use alsa.. | 16:38 |
| dneary | Macer: I don't mean to be rude, by the way, but do you realise that for the past 10 minutes you've been talking to yourself about non-Maemo related stuff in the #maemo channel? | 16:38 |
| Macer | dneary: i don't know man | 16:38 |
| dneary | Macer: Just making sure you realise what channel you're in | 16:38 |
| Macer | dneary: :) that's not true | 16:39 |
| Macer | the first 5 minutes was me trying to get someone to bid higher on an n810 | 16:39 |
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| Macer | but the pkt auction ebay and the baby brain woman... i'll give you those 2 | 16:39 |
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| Macer | and i need a damn n810 NOW.. my scan tool is going to get here soon | 16:40 |
| Macer | i should have never bid on this one :) i just don't want to buy one somewhere then win the bid on the n810 on ebay then be stuck wtih 2 | 16:40 |
| Macer | carman made maemo worthwhile to have again | 16:41 |
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| javispedro | sge, I just confirmed than I cannot play more than one stream at once with alsa as configured by default on my n810 | 16:42 |
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| Macer | maybe i can spray paint it and sell it off as a wimax editin for $1500 on amazon | 16:42 |
| javispedro | so it's esd or nothing | 16:42 |
| Macer | http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001CZJIIM/ref=sr_1_olp_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1249047808&sr=8-1 | 16:43 |
| Macer | baltimore seriously has that much of a demand? | 16:44 |
| VDVsx | dneary, I'll comment the rest of the proposals in the queue until the end of the day, to see if we can agree in a few more ;) | 16:46 |
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| Macer | VDVsx: are you developing for maemo? | 16:47 |
| VDVsx | Macer, sort of, but I'm not a nokian ;) | 16:48 |
| Macer | haha | 16:48 |
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| Macer | i was just curious since the newer maemo won't really support the older hardware | 16:48 |
| Macer | was wondering if people were still going to dev for it or if mer was the only valid solution | 16:48 |
| javispedro | my egocentric answer for that is "i will develop for it as long as I use it" | 16:50 |
| Macer | javispedro: haha | 16:51 |
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| Jaffa | VDVsx dneary: I'd noticed the dev. heavy slant as well :-/ | 16:51 |
| Macer | i suppose that is one answer for it.. i mean.. i'm sure that soon after the release of the newer IT .. support for old maemo will drop to null as the flies go towards the brighter light | 16:51 |
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| javispedro | this is not the first time this happens -- see 770 | 16:52 |
| Macer | 770 was still supported by newer vers of maemo | 16:52 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, time to propose a users talk :P | 16:52 |
| Macer | next ver of maemo will stop working altogether | 16:52 |
| Macer | so it's either mer or hope that someone will still do something with older maemo.. which i doubt will hold on to many developers | 16:53 |
| dneary | Jaffa: Yup | 16:54 |
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| dneary | Jaffa: The best way to avoid a dev heavy slant is to have people presenting the cool stuff you can do with their apps or their tablets; tablet hacks, cool apps, things like that | 16:55 |
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| VDVsx | dneary, I will propose a BlueMaemo LT, a session is too much IMO :) | 16:57 |
| dneary | Cool | 16:58 |
| dneary | I'd like to see more people proposing lightning talks rather than defaulting to presentations | 16:58 |
| Jaffa | dneary: 25 mins is /quite/ a lot to fill with user-focused stuff on a single app (unless it's a big app like OOo etc.) | 16:58 |
| dneary | VDVsx: What do you think of America's got Talent lightning talks? | 16:58 |
| dneary | Jaffa: Not really | 16:58 |
| dneary | Jaffa: I have given full-day workshops on the GIMP where people were howling for more | 16:59 |
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| VDVsx | dneary, lol, depends | 16:59 |
| dneary | Jaffa: It's fairly simple: 2 minutes introduction, 5 minute segments on "here's a cool thing someone did with the app, here's how" | 16:59 |
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| VDVsx | dneary, "There's already a pymaemo presentation" ?, this isn't true , pyQt :) | 16:59 |
| dneary | Jaffa: Let's take the example of NumptyPhysics | 16:59 |
| dneary | VDVsx: I was sure we'd approved a pymaemo presentation | 17:00 |
| dneary | VDVsx: Maybe I was wrong... checking | 17:00 |
| VDVsx | hummm | 17:00 |
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| VDVsx | dneary, anyway, this is a clearly no for me, by the reasons pointed in the wiki, don't mean to be harsh, but by the maemo-devel flow, the proponent don't seems to master the proposed topic, at least atm | 17:06 |
| dneary | Yes, you're right, no pymaemo presentation | 17:07 |
| dneary | VDVsx: Very good point | 17:07 |
| dneary | It's not just the topic we're evaluating, also the proposer | 17:07 |
| dneary | Jaffa: OK - Numpty | 17:07 |
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| dneary | Start with the background story of Crayon Physics | 17:07 |
| dneary | 2 mins | 17:08 |
| dneary | Explain the principle. 2 mins | 17:08 |
| dneary | Maybe 4 if you want to explain all the various stuff you can do like hinges | 17:08 |
| dneary | Then play a level, and see people go "aaah" | 17:08 |
| dneary | Mention the attention to details, the background like crumpled paper | 17:09 |
| dneary | Up to 10 mins already | 17:09 |
| dneary | Next, level editor - show how it's a simple png editor (more or less) | 17:09 |
| dneary | And create a new level, from scratch, in 5 minutes | 17:10 |
| dneary | Show a kid playing with it :) | 17:10 |
| dneary | Call up an audience member for a live demo | 17:10 |
| Jaffa | dneary: I'd count "GIMP" in the "complex apps" category. NumptyPhysics probably too. But, Tear; Modest; Doom; Vagalume; Mauku etc. (thinking about the apps I use most)... | 17:10 |
| dneary | And you've made a very entertaining 25 minute presentation, with 3 cool segments - the game principle, the game itself, and the level editor | 17:10 |
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| dneary | What does Tear do? | 17:11 |
| Jaffa | dneary: I don't doubt there are some apps which can fill plenty of time; I don't doubt there are some of those on Maemo. My feeling is that many Maemo apps are a bit too trivial. | 17:11 |
| Jaffa | dneary: Web browser. | 17:11 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, dneary as a example LT at Fosdem are 15 min long, and basically most of the presentations are about single apps | 17:11 |
| dneary | I'd love to see someone give a proper presentation of Xournal | 17:11 |
| dneary | I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff people can do with that that I don't know about | 17:11 |
| dneary | VDVsx: Indeed, 15 minutes is even short, if you're giving a well prepared demo | 17:11 |
| dneary | Jaffa: In the GIMP, typically I had segments of 30 minutes, which went: | 17:12 |
| dneary | 1. Show cool effect I did | 17:12 |
| VDVsx | xournal for maemo is a bit abandoned, at lest seems | 17:12 |
| dneary | 2. Explain how I did it in 10 easy steps, live demo style, describing what each filter & effect I apply does | 17:12 |
| dneary | 3. Get the audience to do the same thing (or something similar) | 17:12 |
| dneary | The hard part was the preparation, which took me about 30 hours for an 8 hour workshop | 17:13 |
| Jaffa | dneary: As I said, I believe there are apps which you could do it with. But there're very few apps (OTTOMH) on Maemo which even have half the features of GIMP's features. | 17:13 |
| dneary | Anyway, gotta go | 17:13 |
| Jaffa | s/GIMP's features/GIMP's filters/ | 17:13 |
| infobot | Jaffa meant: dneary: As I said, I believe there are apps which you could do it with. But there're very few apps (OTTOMH) on Maemo which even have half the features of GIMP's filters. | 17:13 |
| hugopl | static void sip_api_transfer_to(PyObject *self, PyObject *owner) | 17:14 |
| dneary | Jaffa: Perhaps lightning talks are a better format. Or grouping people together to give presentations by use-case: tablet as internet device, tablet as creative device, tablet as personal media device, tablet as accessory to your PC | 17:14 |
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| dneary | And group different apps in the same usecase together for "showcase" type presentations | 17:14 |
| dneary | It's a nice idea, tough to organise | 17:14 |
| dneary | And no-one's been proposing sessions like that | 17:15 |
| Jaffa | dneary: indeed :( | 17:15 |
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| lcuk_camping | i would love to have an interactive presentation segment where people from the audience with their devices actually get involved somehow, but wifi and live demo stuff usually throws that out | 17:19 |
| lcuk_camping | along with no time to set it up beyond what im already working on ;) | 17:19 |
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| dneary | lcuk_camping: Do you knnow if there's any P2P IM software out there that we can use for conferences? | 17:22 |
| GAN800 | dneary, I'm thinking it might end up being too unpleasant for the presenters. | 17:22 |
| dneary | No server, just if you're on the same subnet, you get seen in pidgin | 17:22 |
| dneary | GAN800: Depends on whether they're good or not | 17:22 |
| lcuk_camping | old school net msg thing used to work | 17:23 |
| dneary | GAN800: 25 minutes is a short time slot, believe me it goes *really* fast | 17:23 |
| dneary | Gotta go | 17:23 |
| lcuk_camping | i was playing with broadcast address stuff a couple of weeks ago | 17:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | dneary: avahi? | 17:23 |
| dneary | See you all tomorrow (I'm babysitting this evening) | 17:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | iirc | 17:23 |
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| dneary | qwerty12_N810: Avahi is the zeroconf implementation | 17:24 |
| dneary | It does service discovery, not services | 17:24 |
| nomis | dneary: you can register services with avahi of course. Avahi then announces them to the outside world. | 17:24 |
| qwerty12_N810 | IIRC, it can be used for chatting, I had an session between rtcomm-beta running on the tablet and Pidgin on the desktop | 17:24 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Or something uses it, dunno | 17:25 |
| javispedro | I assume you're talking about salut? | 17:25 |
| javispedro | didn't know it was on rtcomm | 17:25 |
| lcuk_camping | dneary, i know you are going, the problem is that users wont all be on the same subnet, most wont configure to the same subnet unless they are talking to infrastructure anyway | 17:25 |
| lcuk_camping | i know you aint here (like me lol) | 17:25 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: yep, that's the one, thanks. rtcomm beta has it listed as link-local (xmpp) | 17:27 |
| javispedro | oh, nice. that's a good reason now to download rtcomm :) | 17:28 |
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| javispedro | <<"Windows Mobile" to become "Windows Phone">> heh. | 17:31 |
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| * GAN800 personally doesn't much love the idea of people getting buzzed off. | 17:31 | |
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| RST38h | reMoo | 17:40 |
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| RST38h | javis: they finally renamed winmo into windows te? | 17:42 |
| javispedro | windows te? | 17:45 |
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| RST38h | javis: the Turd Edition | 17:52 |
| javispedro | lol :) | 17:52 |
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| RST38h | android will hopefully savr us from it... | 17:55 |
| RST38h | s/savr/save | 17:55 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: I have fingerscrolling working smoothly with photos in birdlist now | 18:20 |
| fiferboy | As smoothly as without, on the device | 18:20 |
| woglinde | fiferboy? | 18:24 |
| fiferboy | woglinde? | 18:25 |
| woglinde | As smoothly as without? | 18:25 |
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| fiferboy | Ah. I had an issue with my tableview using fingerscrolling | 18:25 |
| woglinde | can you make some video? | 18:25 |
| fiferboy | It worked quickly enough with no photos, but when I had them enabled it was extremely jerky | 18:26 |
| woglinde | yeah I read on the qt4-maemo list | 18:26 |
| woglinde | what was the error exactly? | 18:26 |
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| woglinde | the 16/24 bit xserver stuff? | 18:27 |
| woglinde | or more | 18:27 |
| fiferboy | woglinde: It was my own program, generating a thumbnail each time it was needed from a larger file | 18:27 |
| woglinde | oh | 18:27 |
| woglinde | hehe | 18:27 |
| woglinde | yes | 18:27 |
| woglinde | caching rockz | 18:27 |
| fiferboy | I switched to generating the thumbnails at load time (which lengthen the load but I am working on that) | 18:27 |
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| lcuk_camping | store thumbs in db and move the time to "insert into" stage | 18:35 |
| fiferboy | lcuk_camping: Storing thumbs in the db is a pain, especially since I can change the thumbnail size at any point as a user | 18:36 |
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| fiferboy | There is also the issue of how to determine if the file is still in existance, the thumbnails can get out-of-date | 18:36 |
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| lcuk_camping | how many thumbs are you going to generate when opening the list tho? | 18:37 |
| fiferboy | I think I am going to load the list as normal, then load the thumbnails as a separate thread and have them appear as-they-load | 18:37 |
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| lcuk_camping | thats a tough problem to overcome and one which gets worse as the db grows | 18:37 |
| fiferboy | lcuk_camping: It depends. Right now about 100, I think | 18:38 |
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| lcuk_camping | are these images taken with onboard camera or imported from anywhere? | 18:38 |
| fiferboy | lcuk_camping: imported from anywhere | 18:38 |
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| lcuk_camping | so dynamically loading and thumbing 100 images in a thread just because you opened a screen? | 18:39 |
| lcuk_camping | even if they just sit at the top only showing the first 5 pictures | 18:39 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk_camping: Yes. | 18:40 |
| lcuk_camping | (i have been through all these questions myself..) | 18:40 |
| fiferboy | Because it takes too long to load them when fingerscrolling, I end up losing many frames | 18:40 |
| lcuk_camping | is there a "showing" event for a single cell in a list.. | 18:40 |
| lcuk_camping | but thats only whilst actually scrolling - you COULD have your image loading thread be smart | 18:40 |
| fiferboy | lcuk_camping: I think so, but I want the thumbnail to be avialable for the showing event, not generated on it | 18:41 |
| lcuk_camping | and say "if kinetic in motion, wait" | 18:41 |
| lcuk_camping | that way you get dynamic load on demand, but it just delays itself whilst you smoothly scroll | 18:41 |
| lcuk_camping | (thats how liqbase has done it for ages) | 18:41 |
| lcuk_camping | showing event != shown event | 18:41 |
| fiferboy | lcuk_camping: But what if I am scrolling through the list looking for a particular photo? I won't be able to find it if I delay showing while scrolling | 18:42 |
| lcuk_camping | but you wont anyway because your thread wont have caught up with as fast as you can scroll | 18:42 |
| lcuk_camping | i guarantee whichever speed you do it you can scroll faster :P | 18:42 |
| fiferboy | lcuk_camping: It could have if I have been doodling around with other things at the start | 18:42 |
| lcuk_camping | thumbing 10mpixel images | 18:43 |
| fiferboy | lcuk_camping: That is only an issue right after the program loads. | 18:43 |
| lcuk_camping | then it would have worked anyway | 18:43 |
| lcuk_camping | because the thread only pauses when you are scrolling | 18:43 |
| fiferboy | lcuk_camping: Ah, you are saying pause my thread while scrolling, I missed that | 18:43 |
| lcuk_camping | yeah :) you get best of both | 18:44 |
| fiferboy | lcuk_camping: I could give my thread an idle priority, then it won't process while other things are going on (I think) | 18:44 |
| lcuk_camping | threading isnt perfect lol | 18:44 |
| fiferboy | The N900 is going to have multiple cores, right :) | 18:44 |
| lcuk_camping | i dunno | 18:45 |
| lcuk_camping | and i dunno if we can use em | 18:45 |
| lcuk_camping | there might be a nokia virus checker lol | 18:45 |
| lcuk_camping | especially after the news of sms hacking | 18:45 |
| lcuk_camping | anyway im goin properly for the weekend now ;) | 18:45 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk_camping: Thanks for the advice | 18:49 |
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| cpm_ | Is there a way to get gcc 4 into the Maemo 4 sdk? per default gcc 3 is in there | 18:58 |
| woglinde | cpm for which target? | 18:59 |
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| cpm_ | woglinde: for the armel target | 19:03 |
| woglinde | cpm chinook diablod cococaam,ma? | 19:03 |
| cpm_ | we are having problems with g++ 3.4 and static object initialization | 19:04 |
| cpm_ | Maemo 4.1.2 Diablo | 19:04 |
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| woglinde | cpm nope its no possible | 19:15 |
| woglinde | devices are running to old gcc and libc | 19:15 |
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| cpm_ | so if i would update the device to Maemo 5, this would be the only way? | 19:16 |
| derf | gcc 3.4 on ARM is seriously broken. | 19:16 |
| cpm_ | derf: is there any way to get another gcc running in Maemo 4 SDK? | 19:18 |
| cpm_ | I have severe issues with static object initialization and crashes when loading the program (not even running ...) | 19:18 |
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| derf | Use a newer scratchbox. | 19:19 |
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| derf | There's gcc 4 modules even for sb1. | 19:19 |
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| woglinde | derf how will this work on the device? | 19:20 |
| woglinde | when it comes to libgcc needs | 19:20 |
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| kvalo | hello. I want to run vanilla debian on n800, basically I need just working serial console, sshd and udev. any tips where I could find a ready debian rootfs image? | 19:21 |
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| derf | woglinde: For C I've had no issues with it. For C++, I dunno. I don't use C++. | 19:24 |
| woglinde | def intressting | 19:24 |
| woglinde | for c++ you surely needs a newer libstdc++ | 19:24 |
| derf | I assume they changed the C++ ABI 8 times between each gcc release. | 19:24 |
| derf | This is one of the reasons I don't use it. | 19:24 |
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| lbt | fiferboy: cool. | 19:25 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I built aptitude using it and it didn't work with the libstdc++ on the device. Out of laziness, I just LD_PRELOADed the libstdc++ from the gcc4-using target | 19:26 |
| lbt | kvalo: hi.. | 19:26 |
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| derf | qwerty12_N810: Right, it can be worked around... but heaven help you if you need to link with another C++-based library. | 19:26 |
| woglinde | qwerty that might work | 19:26 |
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| lbt | would almost vanilla Ubuntu be good enough ? Mer would give you that. Key thing is that apt-get install <anything> will work | 19:27 |
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| kvalo | lbt: the thing is that I don't have display working yet (working with 2.6.30 kernel) and I would like to have as simple installation as possible | 19:31 |
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| lbt | Hmm - have you used Mer? | 19:32 |
| cpm_ | thanks for all your comments! | 19:32 |
| lbt | the boot process includes telnetd etc | 19:32 |
| kvalo | lpt: I flashed it once and tried for five minutes, so not much | 19:33 |
| lbt | although technically that's bootmenu | 19:33 |
| lbt | so you can boot and get ssh via usb | 19:33 |
| lbt | most of the time my N800 display is off | 19:33 |
| lbt | I use ssh | 19:33 |
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| kvalo | I have hw serial console, so that's not a problem | 19:34 |
| lardman | Jaffa: ping | 19:34 |
| lbt | kvalo: so what are you doing? | 19:34 |
| lbt | is a new kernel the objective? | 19:34 |
| kvalo | lbt: yeah, the goal is to have n800/n810 support to linus' tree | 19:35 |
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| lbt | you should really be working with Mer | 19:35 |
| lardman | Jaffa: re 1 year terms, am thinking about it | 19:35 |
| * lardman pops to the shops quickly | 19:35 | |
| kvalo | lbt: thanks. I'll take a look at it again. | 19:36 |
| lbt | we use Ubuntu as it is armv5el whereas Debian is armv4 | 19:36 |
| lbt | #mer | 19:36 |
| lbt | We're doing work in the kernel space | 19:36 |
| lbt | The SmartQ guys commited their kernel to the Mer Gitorious repo | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | kvalo: your effort is much appreciated btw :) been trying to direct people to it extensively | 19:37 |
| lbt | here you go http://gitorious.org/mer-smartq | 19:37 |
| lbt | ah, Stskeeps is back :) | 19:37 |
| lbt | thought you were still on the train | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | n810.. | 19:38 |
| lbt | BTW, Adrian is reviewing my patches for the OBS build | 19:38 |
| kvalo | lbt: ok, thanks. | 19:38 |
| Stskeeps | lbt, kvalo=kalle valo=guy from stlc45xx and elinux.org/N800 | 19:38 |
| lbt | ah.... hi kvalo | 19:39 |
| Stskeeps | kvalo: simple debian install? our old method was debootstrap from within a qemu-system-arm image | 19:39 |
| kvalo | Stskeeps: well, this is an on/off project of mine and I have been slow. doing other stuff than computers for the whole july. | 19:39 |
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| Stskeeps | and putting that on sd, pointing root= the right place | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 19:40 |
| kvalo | Stskeeps: any tarballs or rootfs images around? like I said, I need only sshd and udev for now. | 19:40 |
| kvalo | mmc is not working yet for me. maybe I need to add that next :) | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | kvalo: ah, then i would grab a mer jffs | 19:41 |
| kvalo | ok. two votes for mer :) | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | we're also more than happy to be guinea pigs | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | since mainlining will help us a lot :) | 19:42 |
| kvalo | I don't know if this ever is going to be usable for anyone. but let's see how it goes | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | yep | 19:43 |
| kvalo | omap power management will be tricky. nobody supports it properly | 19:43 |
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| kvalo | and the bloody dsme and bme interface. man I hate them | 19:43 |
| kvalo | s/interface/interfaces/ | 19:43 |
| infobot | kvalo meant: and the bloody dsme and bme interfaces. man I hate them | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | take a look at solca's nitdroid patches and nthcode's android patches. some of the effort have been done before | 19:43 |
| woglinde | kvalo for the n8xx pm works well by only using the lowest freqency of the cpu | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | dsme is OSS now, bme we probably need to talk with nokia about interfaces | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | or how it can be used in modern kernels | 19:45 |
| kvalo | yeah, we will figure out something in the end | 19:45 |
| kvalo | woglinde: but what about retention etc? | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | i don't personally see sense in developing specifically so we can get diablo going though | 19:46 |
| lbt | what kernel is fremantle targetting BTW? | 19:46 |
| * kvalo looks away... | 19:47 | |
| kvalo | oh yeah, now I remember. mer didn't gave getty running on ttyS0. that was my problem. | 19:48 |
| lbt | I was wondering about that | 19:48 |
| lbt | should be trivial to fix :) | 19:49 |
| kvalo | yes :) | 19:50 |
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| Stskeeps | kvalo: /etc/event.d/tty1 , copy and edit for ttyS0 :) | 19:56 |
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| Stskeeps | grab our rootfs, untar, re-mkfs.jffs2 it | 19:57 |
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| carlosroundel | hello i'm newbie owner of n810 | 19:57 |
| carlosroundel | c'e' qualche italiano online? | 19:58 |
| kvalo | Stskeeps: thanks a lot! | 19:58 |
| Stskeeps | kvalo: anytime | 19:58 |
| carlosroundel | can i place ext2fs on internal mmc? | 19:58 |
| Stskeeps | kvalo: we hang out in #mer as well | 19:59 |
| kvalo | good, I can ask my stupid questions there instead :) | 20:00 |
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| Saviq | hi guys, do you know if there's some kind of a simple gps logger available for maemo? | 20:03 |
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| Saviq | I use maemo-mapper to track but it's not crash-proof | 20:04 |
| Saviq | it happened to me twice recently that something went wrong and maemo-mapper got interrupted | 20:04 |
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| Saviq | and so I lost the track | 20:04 |
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| Saviq | also maemo mapper causes the screen to light up when gps is enabled and I'd like to keep power usage to the minimum | 20:05 |
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| derf | Saviq: There's a maemo-mapper setting that controls that. | 20:06 |
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| derf | Also, I thought it stored the track in a database for exactly that reason, and has for over a year. | 20:07 |
| Saviq | well it probably does but when it crashes it got lost | 20:07 |
| Saviq | probably something got corrupted | 20:07 |
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| Saviq | so I'd like something that writes directly to file | 20:07 |
| derf | The point of databases is not to get corrupted when things crash. | 20:07 |
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| derf | Anyway, the source is open. | 20:08 |
| Saviq | well that doesn't seem to have worked for me... | 20:08 |
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| Saviq | also, the cpu usage of wayfinder + maemo-mapper + canola is big enough to cause hiccups in playback from canola so I wanted something with a lower footprint | 20:09 |
| Saviq | just wanted to know if there's something like that done already | 20:09 |
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| leandroal | I need to download the latest image (.bin, the diablo?) for my n810, where can I download it? | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | tablets-dev.nokia.com | 20:12 |
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| leandroal | Stskeeps, where can I get instructions to flash it? I already download the flash program... | 20:14 |
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| Saviq | leandroal: google | 20:14 |
| tank-man | ~flash | 20:14 |
| infobot | well, flash is For an EEPROM (flash) programmer that can handle any chip except +12V ones, go to http://fly.hiwaay.net/~jfrohwei/circuit/, or a proprietary format for online animations by Macromedia. However "GPL Flash" has now been released @ http://www.swift-tools.com/Flash/, or wget http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashplayer/special/beta/installers/linux/plugin/install_flash_player_6_linux.tar.gz, or ap | 20:14 |
| Saviq | there's a ton of sites describing that | 20:14 |
| leandroal | Saviq, this is not what I asked | 20:14 |
| tank-man | lol | 20:14 |
| GAN800 | Damn. This Celeron machine is putting out enough EMI to scramble two FM radios from 30' away. | 20:15 |
| GAN800 | ~flashing | 20:15 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 20:15 |
| tank-man | here http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 20:15 |
| leandroal | Thanks! | 20:16 |
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| ShadowJK | GAN800, try unplugging the ethernet switch | 20:35 |
| GAN800 | ShadowJK, oh? | 20:35 |
| GAN800 | ShadowJK, changed the quality of the interference, but didn't stop it. | 20:37 |
| ShadowJK | (Ethernet runs at 100MHz, if it leaks it leaks right on FM) | 20:39 |
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| ShadowJK | At work there's a ~10 metre radius area from one of the ethernet jacks that has FM blacked out :) | 20:40 |
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| * lardman will have to proof read his emails better | 20:42 | |
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| * GAN800 doesn't love the idea of year-long terms. | 20:55 | |
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| * StsN810 likes the change. if year long, resignation should be possible | 20:56 | |
| GAN800 | I know I certainly wouldn't wish to sign on for a year's time. | 20:56 |
| GAN800 | That's an awfully long obligation to ask people to commit to. | 20:56 |
| StsN810 | i'll vote for the GAN party. | 20:57 |
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| * GAN800 cringes at the reservered spot for women idea. | 20:57 | |
| GAN800 | Talk about sexism . . . | 20:57 |
| StsN810 | i demandspace for transsexuals! | 20:58 |
| GAN800 | StsN810, the GAN800 party ensendorsing sjgadsby. ;) | 20:58 |
| sjgadsby | Ack! | 21:00 |
| * sjgadsby hides. | 21:00 | |
| raulherbster | hi, does anyone here have an example with libaccounts library? This package is included on nokia-binaries metapackage. | 21:00 |
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| denny | heyla | 21:05 |
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| denny | do I want diablo_5 from the firmware page? | 21:05 |
| denny | haven't updated this thing in a year or so :) | 21:05 |
| * denny checks... 2.2007 - I guess two years then | 21:07 | |
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| VDVsx | denny, there's a diablo firmware from the end of 2008 | 21:10 |
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| * denny nods | 21:11 | |
| denny | grabbing that, thanks | 21:11 |
| denny | I meant the version currently on my tablet is 2.2007 | 21:11 |
| denny | slightly out of date :) | 21:11 |
| denny | anything else good I should know about, while I'm spring-cleaning it? | 21:11 |
| VDVsx | denny, true | 21:11 |
| StsN800 | Tear. | 21:12 |
| denny | recommended email client maybe? | 21:12 |
| denny | StsN800: what's that? | 21:12 |
| StsN800 | wiki.maemo.org/Tea | 21:12 |
| StsN800 | wiki.maemo.org/Tear | 21:12 |
| VDVsx | GAN800 recomends modest as a mail client :P lolol | 21:12 |
| VDVsx | just kidding ;) | 21:13 |
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| * denny watches the flasher run | 21:16 | |
| denny | this is always mildly terrifying :) | 21:17 |
| denny | I dunno why, it's not like I keep anything important on there | 21:17 |
| StsN800 | only on 770 | 21:17 |
| denny | ewwww, nokia start-up sound | 21:17 |
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| denny | hrm | 21:32 |
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| denny | the applications manager seems quite empty compared to what I remember... had I added extra repositories? where would I find a list of good ones? | 21:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | enable Extras | 21:33 |
| qwerty12_N810 | (it's disabled by default) | 21:33 |
| denny | ta | 21:33 |
| * denny reloads the list | 21:33 | |
| denny | whee :) | 21:34 |
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| Macer | strange | 21:36 |
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| Macer | strange that cell companies can offer unlimited net | 21:37 |
| Macer | but not unlimited voice for a reasonable rate | 21:37 |
| StsN801 | it's not really unlimited | 21:38 |
| denny | yah, see the fair usage policy | 21:38 |
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| Macer | heh | 21:38 |
| denny | although I guess they could say 'unlimited calls, fair usage policy applies' and then in the fair usage policy say 'up to 200 minutes per month' or whatever | 21:38 |
| Macer | well. it's like 5-10G | 21:38 |
| denny | the fine print has got ridiculous these days, they might as well scrap the truth in advertising laws in the UK, dunno about elsewhere | 21:39 |
| denny | I'm on Vodafone UK, my 'unlimited' data is 500MB | 21:39 |
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| Macer | for tmob it is about 5-10G | 21:40 |
| Macer | that is more than enough to talk for the entire month the entire time @ 64kbit/s | 21:40 |
| StsN801 | unlimited just means you can access whole net, just like old aol ;p | 21:41 |
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| Macer | lol | 21:43 |
| RST38h | remoo | 21:43 |
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| * ShadowJK pushed 40 gigs over EDGE last month | 21:58 | |
| ShadowJK | I guess "fair use" restrictio nis somewhere above that then | 21:59 |
| RST38h | thst should have taken time | 22:00 |
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| denny | is canola still the best mp3/ogg/etc player? | 22:01 |
| yigal | if I want to remove items from the menu do I remove their desktop file from /usr/share/applications/hildon/, also if so what else do I need to do to remove it? | 22:02 |
| RST38h | just that | 22:03 |
| RST38h | and jpdate the app cache | 22:03 |
| yigal | RST38h: how do I update the app cache? | 22:04 |
| yigal | I know it isn't update-desktop-database, but I don't know what it is? | 22:05 |
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| RST38h | thats it | 22:07 |
| yigal | maybe I should run it as usr not root, let me see | 22:07 |
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| yigal | no that's not it | 22:08 |
| RST38h | no run it as root | 22:08 |
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| yigal | no that's not it | 22:11 |
| yigal | do I need to restart the it? | 22:11 |
| yigal | afterwords | 22:11 |
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| * VDVsx breaks the rule "don't feed the troll" for the first time in tmo :( | 22:16 | |
| yigal | this didn't do it? | 22:16 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: It happens to many of us. There are support groups and charities available to help you with your decision. | 22:18 |
| VDVsx | thanks for your kind words qwerty12_N810 :) | 22:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | :P | 22:19 |
| * denny reads about email clients, can't find anything definitive | 22:19 | |
| denny | modest has some good write-ups, but I assume from what you said in here that I should skip that? | 22:19 |
| denny | claw-mail is what I was using before, is that still my best bet? | 22:19 |
| yigal | it depends on what you want from a mail client. | 22:20 |
| RST38h | Vdv: actually driving trolls to suicide is fun | 22:21 |
| denny | yigal: to read my email? :) | 22:22 |
| yigal | yes, one should drive trolls to suicide, this is best if possible | 22:22 |
| denny | I've got a few different inboxes, with different outgoing address for each one | 22:22 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, lolol, I'm not so mean | 22:23 |
| yigal | VDVsx: it's for their own good | 22:24 |
| yigal | it's not mean to help them, if they won't help themselves | 22:24 |
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| yigal | denny: try Claws, I guess, though I find Modest perfectly usable | 22:25 |
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| VDVsx | denny, please don't get a wrong impression about modest, I only made a joke because GAN800 is always complaining about modest, to be fair I never used modest in diablo | 22:27 |
| RST38h | VDV; ah once you stop considering trolls human and start -ooking at them as brainboxes with locks to pick, it simply becomes an intellectual puzzle of sorts | 22:27 |
| yigal | RST38h: I had the .desktop files I wanted gone in a subdirectory of /usr/share/applications/hildon/, and I guess update-desktop-database recursively searches in this folder for .desktop files | 22:27 |
| denny | ah, okay :) | 22:27 |
| RST38h | yigla: correct | 22:27 |
| yigal | RST38h: snap | 22:28 |
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| yigal | RST38h: I switched out iceweasel, and openoffice for texlive in the easy debian chroot so I wanted to delete these choices from the menu. I'm glad this can be done pretty easily. | 22:30 |
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| RST38h | it is usually automated in postinst and whatever other script runs at package removal | 22:32 |
| yigal | RST38h: yes I understand, it's just that Qole, I assume it was him, manually installed these .desktop files for use with the chroot, but now they are a pain rather than a use to me. | 22:33 |
| * javispedro is waiting for glibc to build 3 times in a row (~burn complex build systems) | 22:35 | |
| lbt | javispedro: try waiting for gcc; glibc; libcurses; bash; build to cycle round about 3 times | 22:37 |
| javispedro | heh | 22:38 |
| javispedro | and to think I'm not using gentoo because of his long build times | 22:38 |
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| javispedro | (*its long build times; that's enough humanization for today) | 22:38 |
| denny | thanks for the tips people - got to head off now, but I'll be back another day no doubt :) | 22:39 |
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| javispedro | ccache does nothing but waste disk space. i think it's using mtime to decide if a file is modified or not | 22:40 |
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| RST38h | Q: I think makefiles suck and cant do what I want so I made my own super duper build system in xml, perl, python, and java. What should I do next? | 22:50 |
| StsN800 | become a j2ee professionnal | 22:52 |
| * qwerty12_N810 had to make changes to a program using WAF. Hated it. | 22:52 | |
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| RST38h | A: Stick it ... ... .... ... ... | 22:58 |
| RST38h | (and yes, this includes automake) | 22:58 |
| derf | I know when I think, "What's better than XML, Perl, Python, and Java?" I think "M4!" | 22:59 |
| StsN800 | oh dear | 22:59 |
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| * RST38h murders derf in absentia | 23:04 | |
| RST38h | next: lisp. then probably prolog. | 23:05 |
| derf | Yeah, why _don't_ we have a logic induction engine in our build system? | 23:05 |
| RST38h | the moment somebody makes a production build system in prolog will be the apocalypse | 23:05 |
| RST38h | derf: easy answer to that | 23:06 |
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| RST38h | derf: so that our build system Jalready evil enough) DOES NOT GET ANY IDEAS ON ITS OWN | 23:07 |
| derf | No, no, see, if the _build_ system does the thinking, I don't have to, right? | 23:07 |
| derf | I don't see how this plan could possibly fail. | 23:07 |
| RST38h | replace "don't" with "didn't" and you are absolutely correct | 23:08 |
| RST38h | or how about a probabilistic build system? | 23:09 |
| derf | Are you trying to suggest it's not a good idea to have a complicated and hard to predict system control a highly structured, fragile process? | 23:11 |
| RST38h | yes, I know it is heresy | 23:11 |
| derf | What we need is for Wolfram Alpha to be our build system. | 23:11 |
| RST38h | Wolfram will do a reiser before that | 23:12 |
| glass | hehe | 23:12 |
| coldboot | Does anyone have the GoF Design Patterns book in eBook format? | 23:13 |
| coldboot | A PDF is best. | 23:14 |
| RST38h | <sleep> | 23:14 |
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| chx | ooooooooh an N811! | 23:38 |
| chx | May i get an upgrade too? | 23:38 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | No, :P | 23:39 |
| chx | sniff! | 23:40 |
| Macer | 13:56 * ShadowJK pushed 40 gigs over EDGE last month | 23:43 |
| Macer | haha | 23:43 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: for some reason they don't care that much about edge | 23:43 |
| Macer | i think all their monitoring is done with 3G | 23:43 |
| Macer | even so. the slowest edge has the ability to support more than enough data to stream voice comm | 23:43 |
| Macer | and its use isn't considered "minutes" | 23:44 |
| ShadowJK | I'd think they'd care less about 3G since it has greater efficiency | 23:45 |
| Macer | heh | 23:46 |
| Macer | awkward isn't it? ;) | 23:46 |
| Macer | i think it's more of the "too much of a good thing" mentality | 23:47 |
| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 23:47 | |
| Macer | kind of like if people were able to keep batteries underneath their homes | 23:47 |
| Macer | huge batteries that could run the house for months | 23:47 |
| Macer | and they only drew power during low cost months | 23:47 |
| Macer | :) | 23:47 |
| Macer | to fill the batteries | 23:47 |
| Macer | that similie was way overcomplicated | 23:48 |
| * Macer goes to take a nap while he waits on his pizza to show | 23:48 | |
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| ShadowJK | batteries are too expensive :) | 23:59 |
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