IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-07-27

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mavhcso I added a second wifi ap to my network, but the n810 only wants to use the new one, never seems to roam, always selects the new one even if it's lower signal strength00:28
mavhcplus it lists them both in the select connection list00:29
GeneralAntillesmavhc, same SSID, etc?00:30
GeneralAntillesSame encryption?00:30
mavhcyes, didn't have to add a second saved connection00:30
GeneralAntillesMy N800 roams over 4 Tomato APs without issue.00:30
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* ShadowJK 's n810 "roams" over two different APs with different ssid00:32
ShadowJKstatic ips ftw00:32
ShadowJKdifferent essid00:32
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mavhchow does wifi know that 2 aps are for the same network?00:36
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GeneralAntillesSame SSID, different channels.00:37
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mavhcand does it show each AP in the list, or just 1? at work I'm pretty sure it's only 1, but there's 2 here00:38
GeneralAntillesIt only shows 1.00:38
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ShadowJKwhat if you have them on same channel? :)00:40
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GAN800ShadpwJK, never bothered to test.00:45
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GAN800Probaboy nothing exciting, but you'll only be able to use the other when one is completely out of range, I believe.00:45
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Macerthere are a LOT of hero roms for G101:09
Macerwonder if they suck01:09
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lardmanevening all01:11
Stskeepsevening lardman01:15
lardmanhey Stskeeps, was wondering if the official channel had changed for a minute there ;)01:16
wazdbtw, is it possible to test Hero ROM with NITDroid?)01:17
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Stskeeps239 people vs 75, nah, this is still the main channel ;)01:17
lardmanlol, no I meant just in general, I could see the tubleweeds01:18
MacerStskeeps: is maemo required to install Mer?01:18
lardmanI still can't type though, nothing changes01:18
Maceri mean do you have like a flash on its own program for like.. windows or something? :)01:18
Macersomething like the firmware updating app nokia has with the n800?01:19
lardmanVDVsx: ping01:19
StskeepsMacer: windows flasher can't flash single pieces01:19
Stskeepslinux one can01:19
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: flasher-3.5 beta ;)01:19
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Stskeepswindows 3.5 can?01:19
qwerty12_N810WFM when I needed to flash an zImage01:19
Stskeepsis there one? :P01:20
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claptonorientHi peeps, an N810 question:01:23
VDVsxlardman, pong01:24
claptonorienthow do I move desktop applets? Sometimes it works, most times not01:24
lardmanhi VDVsx, was just going to see how the barcode GSoC is coming along?01:24
lardmanclaptonorient: tap in the middle somewhere then drag01:24
qwerty12_N810claptonorient: I find hildon-desktop can get "stuck" sometimes... I just tap the menu icon, close it, and get back to dragging...01:25
lardmanVDVsx: I've just pulled the repo and am tweaking to get it to run01:25
VDVsxlardman, server side and UI is going well, barcode decoding is in the same status (more or less)01:25
claptonorientta lardman - i just get a box saying "close"  - qwerty... this worked just the  once for me. I'll try switching off and on again01:26
lardmanVDVsx: yeah that's fine, the barcode decoding works, etc01:26
VDVsxlardman, the repo is very incomplete now, and the ui is for fremantle, don't expect it to work on the device :P01:26
lardmanok :)01:26
lardmanany ideas on the deps, same as before?01:27
lardmanhmm, server, is that an on-device server or more like the Android one which works on a "proper" PC and cuts the traffic down?01:28
VDVsxzbar debs + plus some python deps (beatifulsoap and other web parsing stuff)01:28
VDVsxyes, lol01:28
lardmannp :)01:28
* lardman goes searching for deps01:28
VDVsxlardman, is django based (python)01:28
VDVsxhave to go, bye01:29
lardmancu, thanks01:29
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lardmanderf: good to see the QR stuff in there and getting some updates too01:32
derfWe've been having quite the involved discussions about it via e-mail.01:34
lardmangreat, making progress?01:34
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derfWell, after some initial issues, it now has about the same accuracy as it did before the integration.01:35
derfAnd if there's no QR codes, it doesn't seem to slow down the rest of his code at all.01:35
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lardmanah, that's good news then01:36
lardmancertainly the fact it can be used in parallel01:36
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lardman~lart Firefox for not wanting to start-up now01:40
* infobot overclocks Firefox until Firefox burns out for not wanting to start-up now01:40
lardmanhmm, sounds like a restart is needed, and bed; will hopefully catch you guys tomorrow now I'm not working all hours01:42
lardmannight all01:42
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chxis the guy who runs under the nick 'craves' in the forum here? or sometimes is here?06:16
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RST38hHere goes N9x0 launch:
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floriangood morning11:28
JaffaMorning, all11:29
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supermazHi everyone11:35
supermazDoes anyone knows if there is a caldav capable calendar app for maemo?11:36
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Stskeepsi'm not entirely sure the values are right though :P12:06
RST38hSts: Cooolio12:07
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: nice :)12:07
RST38hSts: Good to see that the sinister violet/green halo around the Mer logo is gone12:07
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StskeepsRST38h: it's there still just not highlighted12:07
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: i don't believe that a smartq can stay 7d active though12:07
Stskeepsadmittedly i wouldn't mind, but .. :)12:08
RST38hSts: Change it already, it is real ugly12:12
RST38hSts: Just making the logo brighter will do the job12:12
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sarowerfor socket programming: Once the connection is established, I am maintaining the connection always......12:14
sarowerSo when server send i can
saroweris it ok if i keep the recv() function inside an infinite loop?12:14
sarowerany body...any idea..?12:14
sarowerOf course it is inside another thread12:14
sarowerany expert opinion...!12:14
RST38hsarower: The expert opinion is to suggest that you read a book on socket programming12:15
RST38hDo you need a reference to a particular book?12:15
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sarowertumi emon tera marka kotha bolo keno vai?12:16
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RST38hPlease, use English12:16
qwerty12_N810sarower: be nice ;)12:16
sarowerqwerty12_N810: See, RST38h always behaves rude.... is it right?12:17
sarowerI know you are very genious....but..12:18
RST38hSocket programming does not require genius. It does require reading a book though.12:18
sarowerOk, you do not need to give any suggestion...or no need to reply me...12:19
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sarowerand keep in mind that "proud" destroys everything12:20
LinuxCodelazyness is a bigger problem12:21
Stskeepssarower: you are really showing an incapability to simply google after stuff or read a book. we all had to go through that. nothing to do with pride. it's better to give you a fishing rod than a fish.12:23
LinuxCodeand with that said, are we talking c ?12:24
LinuxCodeif so... Interprocess Communications in Linux12:24
LinuxCodepublished by prentice hall12:24
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lardmanmorning all12:52
Stskeepsmorning lardman12:53
lardmanhi Stskeeps12:55
lardmanIs it just me, or have there been no emails to maemo-developers all weekend?12:56
Stskeepsi haven't seen any personally12:56
lcukmaemo developers are stuck in a timevortex12:56
lcukdidnt you get the email?12:56
Stskeepsit is high summer though isn't it?12:56
lardmanStskeeps: true12:56
* lcuk waves 12:56
lardmanlcuk: hey :)12:56
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lardmanso anything new in the past couple of weeks?12:59
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Stskeepsnot much, i'm at debconf and meeting various people - a lot of logos down here13:01
X-Fadelardman: Registration for summit opened. Will you be there? :)13:02
Stskeepson all tshirts, posters, etc13:02
Stskeepsand mentioned in my talk and logo on suihkulokki's talk :)13:02
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lardmanX-Fade: should be, need to check how I get from Berlin to Amsterdam13:03
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lardmanand then from Amsterdam back home13:03
X-Fadelardman: The first part should not be a big problem.13:03
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lardmanI had a quick look this morning and it seems pretty expensive though13:04
andre__lardman, there's e.g. a nighttrain from berlin to amsterdam. and flights of course :-)13:04
andre__but yeah, it's not that cheap13:04
lardman£20 to get to Berlin and ~£150 to get to Amsterdam from there13:04
lardmanyeah there's a train 6.5h13:04
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andre__what is that in a standard currency? :-P13:04
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lardmanI might look at flying to Paris, or similar then doing return flights to Berlin and Amsterdam from there13:05
lardmanandre__: :p like 200E13:05
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Jaffalardman: I did the reverse trip last year (well, Arnhem to Berlin)13:05
JaffaTrain was good; and online bookable.13:05
lardmandid you go overnight?13:05
lardmanAnyway yes I will be there, just have to sort the logistics13:06
lardmanX-Fade: and where's my karma? ;)13:06
andre__lardman, one-way day train is available for 50eur on bahn.de13:07
andre__berlin -> amsterdam13:07
X-Fadelardman: 30 euro Berlin -> Amsterdam.13:07
lardmanah, sounds good13:07
X-Fadehmm ex taxes ;)13:08
X-FadeWell 69 including13:08
lardmanyeah, I can survive that13:08
lardmanthen I need to go from Amsterdam to somewhere I can fly back to Bristol13:08
lardmanhmm, anyway I'll work it out, I could head to London I guess13:08
lardmannot sure how my finance dept will like my circuitous route back from my meeting in Berlin though13:09
Stskeepslardman: we have DSP sharing now in mer kernel btw13:09
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Stskeepswell whatever the DSP framebuffer thing was :)13:10
lardmanvideo memory you mean?13:10
lardmanyeah, ok13:10
* X-Fade is amazed that airlines charge an 'Administration fee' for online flight bookings.13:10
lardmangood good, is it still amazingly unstable? :)13:10
Stskeepslardman: Mer or the patch? ;)13:10
RST38hX-Fade: Instead of amazement, do nt use them13:10
X-FadeThat is about the easiest way for them to get money and the data.  :)13:10
lardmanStskeeps: I'm planning on flashing Mer this evening13:11
Stskeeps0.15's a big step forward, at least13:11
lardmanNeed to get barcode stuff done too, keeps annoying me not knowing which books I own13:11
* Stskeeps has weird wifi issue on his installation though13:11
lardmanStskeeps: how weird?13:12
Stskeepswell, it seems not to hit other people, so i think it might be a sideeffect of me mucking about inside my n8x0 to fix my charger plug :)13:12
lardmanah ok13:12
* lardman really wants a new phone, come on Nokia!13:13
roope_Good morning.13:13
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lardmanJaffa: so I reckon if you render the tiles from Google Satellite view and use a simple flight model, will be pretty good ;)13:13
lardmanhi roope13:13
roopeSummer holidays are slowly ending in Finland. :)13:14
MyrttiX-Fade: some airlines that charge that are still cheaper than the ones that don't13:16
* Myrtti contemplates on buying a 2.79€ flight to UK13:16
X-FadeMyrtti: Yeah, but it is just stupit to tell your customer that he has to pay for administration of their core business.13:17
X-FadeMyrtti: They are in the business of selling flights, how else would they get your booking? :)13:18
MyrttiX-Fade: I'd call flight industrys core business keeping the planes in the air, not suffling papers around in the airports - atleast here in Finland an unnamed flight company beginning with a letter R has outsourced everything they do at the airport to a subcontractor - can understand why they need to charge for the online stuff as they need to suffle data to the subcontractor and so on13:19
Jaffalardman: Nice idea :)13:20
Jaffalardman: The spirit level on the iPhone App Store advert annoyed me. This was a quick way of playing with accelerometers & Cairo. Next step: accelerometers & OpenGL-ES to do a fun little "tilt your way through the obstacles" game13:21
lardmanJaffa: when I have a few spare minutes I'll plumb in the wiimote so I can play13:21
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Jaffalardman: Cool; patches welcome.13:21
lardmanJaffa: yes, sounds good13:21
Jaffalardman: Ideally there'd be a series of class references and it asks each one if they're available; and use the first available. But my Python-fu isn't strong enough for that yet13:22
lardmanOr we could just let the user choose of course :)13:23
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Jaffalardman: Indeed.13:26
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lardmanqwerty12_N810: ping14:10
qwerty12_N810lardman: pong.14:10
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lardmanand there I thought you were out burning cars in your summer holiday ;)14:11
lardmanhow are your Debianisation skillz?14:11
qwerty12_N810Not great14:11
lardmannote to self, don't abuse someone before asking a favour14:12
lardman~kick self14:12
* infobot kicks self14:12
RST38hlardman: as long as you promise him to stop the abuse...14:13
lardmanah, good plan14:13
supermazHi all14:14
supermazdoes someone knows if there is a CalDav capable Calendar software for maemo?14:14
lcuklardman, did you ever finish up all your database stuff you started looking at14:15
lcukor is that in a dropped branch for now14:15
lardmanqwerty12_N810: any advice as to how to perform Debianisation, do you have some basic skeleton files you use?14:15
lardmanlcuk: no, been busy14:15
lardmanqwerty12_N810: does dh_make take a plan tarball and turn it all Debian like?14:16
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lcukit creates the baseline /debian folder within your project14:16
lardmanlcuk: the gui is a real pain though, so am thinking the Python way might be better than keeping going with the C14:16
lcuki think14:16
lcukyeah i hear ya14:17
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Jaffalardman: mud can help with basic debianisation, FWIW14:17
lardmanplus I may as well hack using the same language as the GSoC project14:17
lcukjust hope theres still some entry points, i have a super graffiti wall and lots of source data that will  need throwing into something soon :D14:17
lardmanJaffa: is there a howto somewhere? I just want to create a deb that sticks the files in the right place, nice and quick and easy, etc.14:18
lardmanlcuk: well you may find zbar does the trick for you14:18
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lardmanlcuk: it does lots of barcode types, and is written in C, with a python entry point, etc14:18
lcukyeah ill sort that out later, ill just leave it with a stub for now14:18
Jaffalardman: the docs are a bit out of date:
Jaffalardman: Best example is something like Vim: - a "foo.pkg" file in mud/packages containing a mud.xml14:20
JaffaThat defines upstream source and any additional metadata.14:20
Jaffalardman: then `mud build foo'14:20
lardmanok, will give it a go14:20
Jaffavim also demonstrates shipping files for menu integration and arbitrary other files which aren't part of the tarball.14:21
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* Stskeeps wonders when the next maemo-beagle will be up to date14:22
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lardmanany news on the PowerVR stuff?14:24
Stskeepsi suppose it has been hit by the summer14:25
lardmanah true14:25
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wazd_RST38h: ping?)14:27
lardmanbbiab, changing location14:27
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RST38hwazd: pong.14:34
rmt_Muhaha. I now have my girlfriend entering all our travel plans into Tomboy, and will copy it to the 810 afterwards.14:36
Stskeepsdon't rely on n810 gps14:36
wazdRST38h: from my blog bout Ti85: Hey,14:36
rmt_I also discovered that evince on the n810 seems to eat CPU regardless .. led to a wrong turn on the drive home yesterday.14:36
wazdThanks for making these, they look very cool, however, they are hard to use with fingers (not impossible, just a bit hard). Could it be possible to make a new ’skin’ and use some of the empty space to make the keys bigger?14:36
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rmt_But I must say, San Marino has fabulous views. :-)14:37
* Stskeeps is enjoying caceres, spain14:37
Stskeeps.. especially sitting inside14:37
rmt_Hehe.. actually, the weather there yesterday was *great* .. hot, but a cool breeze .. unlike Perugia, where the heat's just stifling.  No ocean to cool us down.14:38
RST38hwazd: This is the version of the guy who wanted to make sensitive areas bigger (on itt)14:38
rmt_But I kind of fear Sicily next month .. July/August is the worst time of the year to go, I think..14:39
wazdfucking google14:39
RST38hwazd: Generally possible, but 1) will make it easier to make a mistake and 2) requires me to go and tediously change a few scores of rectangle coordinates14:39
wazdI've installed Picasa 3 software14:39
RST38hAnd, of course, I am lazy14:39
RST38hwazd: Why?14:39
RST38hwazd: They have got web albums, that is usually enough14:39
wazdRST38h: it allows me to choose 2 options on startup - search whole PC for photos and search "only" My Pictures and Desktop14:40
wazdRST38h: I can't search nothing14:40
RST38hwazd: Uninstall, ignore14:40
* RST38h made Google Voice work with Gizmo and even made a few US calls yesterdya14:41
wazdRST38h: yep, that was pretty annoying14:41
RST38hThe funny thing is, as Ubuntu absolutely refused to support mike on my laptop, the tablet ended up as the only Gizmo client in the house14:41
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RST38hwazd: Any attempt by a ebusiness to force plunger up your ass is gonna be annoying, to say the least14:42
RST38hwazd: Be it Picasa, Java, or ICQ14:42
wazdRST38h: at least ICQ don't tell me "I want to cache all files on your PC right now. Obey."14:44
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RST38hwazd: Ah it does a lot of other things, if you try installing the official ICQ client from AOL14:45
lcukwell icq and picasa are 2 completely different apps14:45
lcuki expect a graphical cataloging app to search my machine14:45
lcukwhy would an im program?14:45
RST38hlcuk: It does not, it just installs itself all over the place, pulls up its own copy of the JVM, then insterts itself into autostart14:46
wazdlcuk: sure, but I would expect an app to allow me not to catalogue all stuff on my pc14:46
RST38hlcuk: At which point it proceeds to search all your contacts and add them in14:46
RST38hlcuk: In other words, it is a differently shaped plunger applied to the same orifice14:46
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wazdlcuk: Picasa didn't give me that choice so it was anihilated :)14:47
lcukyou just said it had option for scan all machine14:47
lcukRST38h, you mean the extra crap with icq, not icq itself14:47
wazdlcuk: all or just my pictures14:48
wazdlcuk: which are basicaly the same ptions on my PC :)14:48
RST38hlcuk: But again, you do not get much choice14:48
lcukthats a reasonable choice for a catalog tho - doesnt canola do similar?14:48
wazdlcuk: canola allows me to choose folders14:48
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wazdlcuk: specific folders14:48
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: crazy question, who uses FVWM in Maemo these days?14:49
RST38hwazd: My guess is that you will find a different image cataloging program that is less intrusive and more smart14:49
wazdlcuk: Picasa doesn't14:49
RST38hwazd: twocows or some other software site has them14:49
wazdRST38h: In fact I don't want to catalogue my photos, I just wanted to have a web album for Mer shots :)14:49
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: er.. Maybe Benson? (And I'm not even 100% on that)14:49
wazdRST38h: I have Lightroom for listing/editting :)14:49
lcukwazd im sure you can specifcy specific folders in picasa - maybe not at the firstboot wizard, but in the main options14:49
lcukthen picasa is wrong app deffo14:50
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: reason i'm wondering is because of - we're emulating mer ui in fvwm14:50
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qwerty12_N810A WM that understands the concept of more than one window (*gasp*) would be nice...14:51
Stskeepscheck the middle screenshot i think14:51
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RST38hwazd: Ah, you do not need Picasa client to create a web album14:53
RST38hwazd: They may not clearly tell you that because they want you to have the client14:53
wazdRST38h: their web uploader can upload only 6 photos at a time14:53
RST38hwazd: You have got more? =)14:54
wazdRST38h: 50 :)14:54
RST38hJust 9 runs...14:54
RST38hEasier than suffer Picasa client14:54
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lcukStskeeps, are they composited in :o14:56
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RST38hlcuk: Stupid people. "Buying content" hehe14:59
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: really interesting screenshot..
Stskeeps(osso-xterm and HIM)15:00
mavhcnot like you can't alter the folders picassa uses after it's running15:02
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Macerneed to make one more wordpress vhost15:04
RST38hlcuk: BTW, there are ebooks with free open courced firmware *and* there is a contest for the best ebook app going on right now15:05
lcukebook app on which platform?15:05
RST38hPocketBook 301+15:06
RST38haka "the Ukrainian ebook"15:06
lcukback to greyscale :) neat15:07
lardmanhmm, what's up with OMWeather?15:07
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* lcuk is gonna make a weather app which lets you put your own weather in one day soon :)15:07
RST38hlcuk: Can I make a feature request? =)15:08
lcukthe amount of times i look at a weather applet in whichever system, then glance at the window and go "no its not"15:08
* RST38h wanted to ask for the "microwave on high" option15:09
lcukfire away, im kidding15:09
lardmanlcuk: that's the problem with using Yahoo weather or whatever it is15:09
lardmanlcuk: try, seems to be better than average in its performance15:09
lcuklardman, what is? its always wrong or it doesnt give weather, it requests it15:09
lcuklardman, i want to just click on the kind of weather it is15:10
lardmanlcuk: always wrong15:10
lardmanah, attached to a weather machine, I see15:10
lcukhuman weather station :)15:10
lcukor automated readings15:10
lardmanwell obviously the interface is the hard bit there, changing the weather is old hat ;)15:10
lcuk"its sunny here now"15:10
* lcuk hates seeing what a computer THINKS something is15:11
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lcukanyway, back to the grind15:12
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lardmanhmm, /me likes the look of mud xml15:12
lardmanthough I can't see any links on the mud pages to the actual ruby (I think) scripts. Anyone?15:14
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lardmanah, svn job15:16
lardmanhmm, cert error for Garage15:16
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lardmanhey GeneralAntilles15:28
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GeneralAntillesMorning, lardman.15:28
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lardmanwhat number do the maemo packages start from? I've got zbar-0.8, should that then be zbar-0.8-maemo0 or something?15:29
lardmanhow's things GeneralAntilles?15:29
GeneralAntillesTired, getting ready for another marathon week at work.15:30
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X-Fadelardman: zbar_0.8-maemo115:30
lardmanwork work or uni work?15:30
lardmanX-Fade: thanks15:30
X-Fademind the difference between _ and - ;)15:31
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lardmanX-Fade: yep, I guess mud-builder sorts out the underscore for me15:32
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Jaffalardman: If it's not been packaged for any other platform, the -maemo suffix is unnecessary.15:34
lardmanoh, ok15:34
lardmanwell it's an external project15:34
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lardmanbut I hope to use it unchanged, so in that case do I need the suffix?15:35
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X-FadeThe maemo suffix tells that you changed something to the packaging for Maemo.15:35
X-FadeNot touched the actual code.15:35
X-Fadelardman: See 3.2.1 on page 11.15:37
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lardmanX-Fade: ok, cheers15:38
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* RST38h wonders if he should change "armel" to "maemo" in package names15:38
RST38hGiven that they are clearly Maemo specific15:38
* GeneralAntilles runs off to work.15:38
X-FadeRST38h: armel is typically related to the arch.15:39
RST38hX-Fade: Yes, I guessed that much15:40
RST38hX-Fade: So, if I only used stdio and let us say X11, it would be ok to have "armel"15:40
X-FadeRST38h: You shouldn't use armel at all.15:40
RST38hBuy with hildon_app, hildon_window, and other Maemo stuff it has to be maemo15:40
X-FadeRST38h: Only to indicate build archs.15:41
RST38hX-Fade: I have seen it used quite a lot though15:41
X-FadeNotice the _ after the version number.15:41
RST38hah ok15:42
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X-FadeRST38h: name_version_arch.deb15:42
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X-FadeThe builder automatically adds arch btw.15:42
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RST38hX-Fade: I build stuff locally15:43
taligAnyone wrote anything with pygtk? I'm struggling with some annoying bug...15:44
X-FadeRST38h: Yeah, then you should do it yourself. But at least that is the idea.15:44
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RST38hX-Fade: I am always adding armel, so I should be ok15:45
prometoyshow can I set Midori as default browser?15:46
lardmanJaffa: dare I say it looks like it's working, with only some minor tweaks. Good stuff :)15:47
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lardmanah, spoke too soon15:47
Jaffalardman: cool15:47
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lardmanhmm, not linking against something Python related - the bridge library I guess15:50
lardmanlot of undefined PyThis PyThat errors15:50
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timeless_mbpandre__: ping15:55
andre__timeless_mbp, pong15:55
timeless_mbpandre__: is the game startup screen in the maemo5 sdk?15:56
andre__no idea15:56
timeless_mbpandre__: ok, do you have a diablo device?15:57
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timeless_mbpok, turn it on, and run any of the nokia games15:57
timeless_mbpnow look at the two buttons (start, restart)15:58
timeless_mbpdo they appear centered on your screen?15:58
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timeless_mbpnow, find a fremantle thing, and run any game15:58
timeless_mbpcheck the same thing :)15:58
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andre__timeless_mbp, yes, confirming the issue. not centered in fremantle16:00
timeless_mbpit's public!16:00
* timeless_mbp sighs and goes to file16:01
timeless_mbpcan you make sure this is fixed once i file it?16:01
timeless_mbpi mean, this is incredible :)16:01
andre__no, as i lack superpowers ;-)16:01
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timeless_mbpBug 4831 has been added to the database16:05
timeless_mbpplease send it to the almighty graveyard in the clouds where it can rot16:05
andre__you mean my desk? :-P16:05
timeless_mbpi wouldn't want your desk to get messier16:06
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lardmanit would be turned into coal on my desk there's so much paper work scudding about16:06
timeless_mbpandre__: anyway, lemme know once you've filed it :)16:07
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andre__(my desk is quite clean actually, heh)16:09
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lardmanhere's my error if anyone has any ideas (Python C linking thing):
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GAN800Do it right.16:11
GAN800andre__, change the post title yet? :P16:12
GAN800lardman, just general advice. ;)16:12
qwerty12_N810-lpython may actually be a start16:13
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jeremiahsopi: Thanks for the email and keeping me up-to-date.16:14
VDVsxlardman, yep, it can't find python.h16:15
lardmanqwerty12_N810: I was wondering if something like that was needed16:15
lardmanVDVsx: python.h, I can't find any complaints about that in the output16:15
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: it's a linker error16:16
lardmananyone know what sem_post means in this context too?16:16
VDVsxlardman, "PyErr_Occurred" ->this is from python.h I guess, and yes qwerty solution should work16:16
sopijeremiah: sure thing16:16
lardmanI wonder why it didn't link against libpython, odd16:16
VDVsxlardman, I've the sem_post issue too, but everthing works, so no probs :P16:17
VDVsxsomething related to cython in SB, I guess16:17
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lardmanah, that might be what's screwed it up though16:20
lardmanpython-config --libs spits out lots of sem_post errors as well as the libraries line, so perhaps it doesn't get through16:21
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qwerty12_N810Assuming that it runs python-config --cflags, that wouldn't account for -I/usr/include/python2.5 being included.16:23
lardmanperhaps I need to upgrade my installation16:23
lardmanso perhaps that sort of output doesn't work too well16:24
lardmanhmm, I wonder if that is really a Chinook sb installation16:24
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lardmanmmm, f77 exists, perhaps I was using this one to build octave16:26
lardmando people with the diablo version get an error with python-config?16:27
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RST38hRunning f77 on a tablet sounds kinky16:30
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lardmanno in sb to build stuff for the tablet16:30
lardmanI'm not one of those strange build-on-device ones like lcuk ;)16:30
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VDVsxlardman, after installing cython (I think), I get the sem_post warning in everything python related, even when running a normal app inside SB16:34
VDVsxdiablo 4.1 here16:34
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lardmanthanks, I'll reinstall scratchbox later on and see what I get with a fresh install16:36
lardmanrighty-ho, have to head off, back later on16:38
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jeez_I'm compiling qt 4.6 for maemo, but I just can't use OpenGl as graphicssystem. Is there someone from the qt4-maemo here ?16:39
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fiferboyjeez_: I do some work on qt4-maemo16:40
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taligHi everyone, anyone with some gtk/pygtk experience? I need some help :)16:40
jeez_fiferboy: oh, nice :)  so, I'm building Qt here16:41
jeez_using some of your patches16:41
jeez_(the ones for Gl) and using "your configure"16:41
fiferboyjeez_: Where is the problem?16:42
jeez_when I try to use graphicssystem opengl I just get "Unable to load graphicssystem "opengl""16:42
jeez_fiferboy: ^16:43
fiferboyjeez_: This is when you are running a program using the libraries you just built?16:43
fiferboyAnd there were no issues with applying the patches or the compile?16:43
jeez_I applied tha patches myself, manually16:44
jeez_and, well, no problems at all16:44
fiferboyOkay, and you are running in what environment?  Fremantle in the SDK?16:44
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jeez_fiferboy: yes16:45
jeez_and in a omap3, also16:45
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fiferboyI've never tried running Qt 4.6 or Qt with opengl16:46
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fiferboyYou could try asking on the qt4-maemo mailing list, I know Antonio on that list has run opengl Qt16:46
timeless_mbpjeez_: do you actually have a working opengl omap3?16:46
jeez_fiferboy: ok16:46
jeez_can I find antonio on irc ?16:47
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fiferboyBut AFAIK the patches have never been used for qt 4.616:47
lbtfremantle Qt has opengl enabled16:47
jeez_that is other thing that I need to talk to someone from qt-maemo16:47
fiferboylbt: Does Antonio frequent any channels in IRC?16:47
lbthe's gnuton when he's around16:48
fiferboy~seen gnuton16:48
infobotgnuton <n=Tonio@kde/developer/aloisio> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 44d 4h 31m 38s ago, saying: 'se'.16:48
jeez_well, here is exactly what I did16:48
fiferboylbt: Rarely indeed!16:48
jeez_I got qt 4.6 from master, applied the patch 103 (the hunks that were not there yet), used qt-maemo configure without the -hildon option, and used the mkspecs config file for opengl-es216:49
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jeez_the result of this can be found on a repository on gitorious16:49
fiferboyjeez_: What is the error when you try to run opengl as the graphicssystem?16:50
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jeez_Unable to load graphicssystem "opengl"16:50
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taligjeez_ , fiferboy - any gtk experience? I have a bug I can't trace :(16:50
jeez_talig: no, sorry =/16:51
jeez_lbt: yes, I'm using that16:51
fiferboytalig: I've done some Gtk, but I am by no means an expert16:51
jeez_the configure options are the same16:51
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taligThanks, jeez_. fiferboy - it's probably silly: I can't restore the window after I minimize it... ideas?16:51
fiferboytalig: In maemo on the device?16:51
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taligfiferboy - yes...16:52
jeez_lbt, fiferboy: so I should try talking to Antonio Aloisio ?16:52
fiferboytalig: Is there an icon in the task area?16:53
taligfiferboy - Yup, got icon.16:53
fiferboytalig: And clicking on it does nothing?16:53
taligfiferboy: It opens the window, but only the first time. After you minimize it - it does nothing.16:54
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fiferboytalig: Do you have a dbus service for your program?16:57
taligfiferboy - I don't think so. I mean, in any case not explicitly.16:58
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fiferboytalig: Any code in your program that executes on minimize/restore?16:58
taligfiferboy: No, I didn't find which events/signals need to be connected to do that.16:59
fiferboyjeez_: I think that would be a good idea17:00
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fiferboytalig: Have you looked at the GUI application part of this document?17:01
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taligfifer - I have17:02
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fiferboytalig: Hmmm, so you have a pretty straightforward program that doesn't want to restore the second time it is minimized?17:03
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Jaffatalig: When you say "[the icon] opens the window the first time". fiferboy meant: "Once you start the application from the menu, do you get an icon and entry in the switcher/task area which is inoperative after you minimise the program?"17:04
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taligfiferboy: Exactly, not the second time it's minimized, the first. It actually starts in the minimized form. just a toolbar icon...17:05
Jaffatalig: It starts minimised?17:06
fiferboyJaffa: Good catch17:06
taligJaffa: I don't start the application from the menu, I start it from the xTerm. Then I get no window, no entry in the switcher/task area, just the icon in the toolbar.17:06
Jaffatalig: Do you set any weird Gtk+ property to start it minimised? Or is that accidental?17:07
taligWhen I click the icon, the window opens. But then if I minimize it - it's lost (though the icon remains in place, process running, etc...)17:07
qwerty12_N810talig: do you have a StartupWMClass field in your desktop file?17:07
fiferboytalig: Do you mean the statusbar area at the top of the desktop?17:07
* Jaffa bets if you can find why your app is starting minimised, you can probably fix why it doesn't unmimimise after explicitly minimising it17:08
taligJaffa : Not at all. It's just that the "activate" is connected to the icon.17:08
taligqwerty - huh? I don't have a desktop file.17:08
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taligfiferboy: exactly.17:08
fiferboytalig: There is a weird "feature" of hildon17:08
JaffaStskeeps: That's the Mer UI using fvwm rather than Matchbox?17:08
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Jaffatalig: Oh, so it's not a normal app - it's a status bar thing?17:09
fiferboyWith gtk statusbar apps, You have to click the statusbar icon to minimize, then the taskbar entry (which you don't have) to get it to go away17:09
StskeepsJaffa: yup17:09
JaffaStskeeps: Nice.17:09
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fiferboytalig: Does clicking the icon several times after it disappears make any different?17:09
taligfiferboy: I don't want the icon to go away17:09
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: I'd love to be able to see the pic but browser-proxy is fucking up ATM17:09
fiferboytalig: It shouldn't go away, but there may be a problem with not having a desktop file17:10
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: ah, brave new technology17:10
fiferboytalig: I think Hildon requires one to keep the application running, especially when hidden by the statusbar17:10
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taligfiferboy : After the window disappears, you mean? No, it's not doing anything. About the requirement: That's good, I need it to keep running.17:11
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: I should just add Tear support directly into XChat17:11
qwerty12_N810Not like I use the POS MicroB anymore.17:11
ShadowJKmicrob is superior for pr0n17:11
fiferboytalig: Try adding a desktop file and executing through that.  It should give you a taskbar icon (on the side) when the program is shown, and it should go away when hidden by the statusbar17:12
taligfiferboy: I'll give it a go, thanks.17:12
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qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Nice. Have you tried it with any Xlib/SDL apps?17:15
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: not yet17:17
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jeez_is facing problems right now ?! I'm having "Failed to fetch" when trying to update and it is also taking soooo long17:23
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RST38hNo new tear lately?17:40
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jeremiahjeez_: "Failed to fetch" might be a reflection of a particular mirror's problem, not _necessarily_
Stskeepsmorning jeremiah17:53
jeremiahHey Stskeeps!17:53
Stskeepsfeeling better yet?17:54
jeremiahI saw you gave your talk already at debconf917:54
jeremiah(Yes, I'm feeling better, thank you. :) )17:54
jeremiahHow did your talk go?17:54
Stskeepsyeah, it went .. alright, it was a bit hurted by the fact there was no projector and i didn't prepare enough :)17:54
Stskeepsand the room was 35C+ ;)17:54
jeremiahYeah, I heard it has been warm there.17:55
jeremiahReally warm.17:55
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Stskeepsah, it's not -that- bad, but the BoF room is hell. :P17:55
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jeremiahWell, I'm really glad you gave the talk. I hope you present at FOSDEM next year, and if you don't I am happy to give your presentation (if no one else wants to do it.)17:55
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jeremiahI think videos from debconf9 are meant to show up here:
jeremiahNot much there now.17:57
Stskeepsyeah, i wasn't recorded by video team, but some of the openmoko/tuxbrain guys did17:57
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jeremiahThere is going to be a Tuxbrain-like company opening in Gothenburg, Sweden soon.17:58
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RST38h...the Foxconn worker who apparently committed suicide after an iPhone prototype went missing. As compensation, his family has been paid about $44,000, and his girlfriend received an Apple laptop.18:06
jeremiahRST38h: But Foxconn still think he stole it.18:07
RST38hjeremiah: And he did not?18:08
jeremiahWell they haven't found it yet - so who knows.18:10
aquatixwho wants to have an iphone anyway :/18:11
qwerty12_N810Why would anyone take their life over one?18:11
Myrttiit would probably spin nicely in truth or dare game18:11
* RST38h wonders if they have done body cavity search18:11
Myrttiprobably there's an app to put a picture of a bottle on it too18:11
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RST38hWhy wouldn't a real bottle do?18:12
Myrttiif the kids don't have a bottle?18:12
VDVsxI doubt he stole it, otherwise he wouldn't commit suicide :), by the logic18:12
RST38hVDVsxL Faulty logic18:13
RST38hVDVsx: My logic says he felt guilty and committed suicide because of that =)18:13
VDVsxRST38h, but if he stole it and sell it, probably earned a lot of money, why commit suicide ? lol18:15
VDVsxstupid guy, probably18:15
RST38hVDVsx: He may not have sold it (or we would know already from the happy buyer)18:16
RST38hEither way, it is just a silly piece of PCB with some chips on it and a shiny shell18:16
RST38hNot sure why obsess over it so much18:16
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VDVsxRST38h, he can sold it to one of rip-off chinese company's :P18:18
RST38hVDVsx: And?18:18
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coldbootHe can indeed sold it.18:18
RST38hVDVsx: You really think a Chinese company can't produce another iPhone-looking piece of junk without looking at the real thing? =)18:18
coldbootHe can then has many money.18:19
VDVsxRST38h, no, they can produce everthing18:19
VDVsxeven space shuttles , lol18:20
slonopotamusdsme often does open("/tmp/cal.mtd1.lock", O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_EXCL, 0666) but closes it immediately (it accesses CAL area after lock file was closed). does anyone see any logic in it?18:20
RST38hVDVsx: almost real ones, too =)18:20
coldbootThey also instained milk that killed their babbys.18:20
RST38hBetter ponder on the fact that Apple is going to release its tablet just when Nokia is planning ot release N9x018:20
Robot101slonopotamus: entertaining misunderstanding of the point of lock files? :)18:21
slonopotamusRobot101, could be. i wonder whether it'll behave adequately if i open lock by myself.18:21
RST38hslono: the presense of this file may act as a lock by itself18:21
VDVsxRST38h, anyway, without SW the iphone is just piece of junk (and with is the same :P)18:21
RST38hslono: does it delete the file afterwards?18:22
slonopotamusRST38h, it doesn't create it nor delete. just open then close.18:22
RST38hslono: It does create it - notice O_CREAT18:23
slonopotamusRST38h, hmmm... show it to me :) i don't see it anywhere18:23
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RST38hslono: In your open(...) line it will create the file if it is not yet created18:24
RST38hslono: then try opening it in exclusive mode and fail if it has already been open18:24
RST38hok, time to go home18:24
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slonopotamusRST38h, `find / -name cal.mtd1.lock` didn't find it. i'm doing smth wrong?18:27
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talig1Q: Anyone knows why when I create a debian package for my application it says: Incompatible Package? [I'm in red pill mode]18:28
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talig1I followed this howto:
slonopotamustalig1, 'it'?18:29
Andy80hi all18:29
qwerty12_N810talig1: Section has to be something in user/18:29
infoboti guess package-categories is
Andy80I'm getting this error, trying to start Xephyr on my Ubuntu 9.04:
Andy80anyone have any idea?18:29
talig1qwerty - could you elaborate?18:30
fiferboytalig1: What do you have for the category in your debian/control file?18:30
talig1slonopotamus - 'it' - the application manager, the internet tablet - choose whatever suits you.18:31
fiferboytalig1: Try putting "user/desktop" in your "category" section in debian/control18:31
slonopotamustalig1, does your packkage install with apt-get?18:31
talig1fiferboy - thanks, trying.18:33
fiferboylbt: Are you still working on OBS?18:33
* lbt nods18:33
lbtbash runs.. :)18:34
fiferboyReal bash?18:34
lbtall that work and now bash runs !18:34
fiferboyThat's really the pinacle of all acheivement18:35
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* lbt bows18:35
MyrttiEMACS FOR MAEMO! that's a real GOAL to be achieved18:36
* Myrtti hides18:36
Myrttisurely someone has done it already, though?18:36
jeremiahYes, emacs has been ported I think, somewhere18:36
qwerty12_N810Yep, there's a Garage project. Not Hildonized, however.18:37
jeremiahIt is the only ONE TRUE EDITOR.18:37
fiferboyHildonizing emacs sounds like a job for qwerty...18:37
* lbt has it on Mer18:37
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qwerty12_N810fiferboy: vim user :P18:38
lbtlittle do you know that Mer 1.5 will be ported to lisp18:38
Myrttican I haz mah pink-bliss.el?18:38
fiferboylbt: Is it... mer-in-ized?18:38
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Me too :)18:38
andre__timeless_mbp, why did you CC quim on 4831?18:38
Myrttivim pft18:38
timeless_mbpandre__: random act of violence :)18:39
timeless_mbpignore it18:39
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taligfiferboy: tried, installed (thanks!) - but no icon anywhere :( Can't run it...18:41
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fiferboytalig: Do you install the desktop file to /usr/share/applications/hildon?18:42
fiferboytalig: And icons to /usr/share/icons/hicolor/64x64/hildon?18:42
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taligfiferboy: I followed the howto:
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fiferboytalig: Are you running Diablo on your device?18:44
taligfiferboy - indeed.18:44
fiferboytalig: Is your desktop file in /usr/share/applications/hildon on the device?18:45
taligfiferboy: Nope. I'll have to figure out what does wrong in the packaging process, I guess...18:46
fiferboytalig: If you use an archiver to open the deb file you can look at the contents of the tarballs inside18:47
taligFiferboy: Thanks yet again18:47
fiferboytalig: No problem18:47
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lbtMyrtti: jeremiah:
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Myrttiooo purty18:50
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lbtno v-keyboard ... but this is emacs... just looking is enough18:51
qwerty12_N810Tried the GTK emacs? It may do VKB18:52
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jeremiahsopi: Are you around?18:53
jeremiahsopi: I need to install some perl modules on garage.18:53
sopiyes, i'm here.18:53
sopijeremiah: should be fine.18:54
jeremiahsopi: Is it alright to install three perl modules on garage? They are small and it shouldn't impact any other process. :)18:54
jeremiahsopi: Cool. I'll do it now and tell you how it goes. . .18:54
sopijeremiah: yes, nothing in GForge works with perl. thanks for letting me know.18:54
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qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: your patch to compile Tear under Mer is in the Tear SVN now19:02
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: have you managed to get audio working on any Mer thing?19:03
taligfiferboy: Ok, it installed and I have the icon, but it doesn't run :'( Any idea where I should look?19:03
* timeless_mbp wants to consider making a cp for it19:03
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: thanks19:03
fiferboytalig: Does it run from the terminal?19:03
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: just ALSA on a tablet using the dsp-modules from diablo  and the tablet-sound package19:04
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: does that honor the nokia sound settings?19:04
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: No, because Nokia's stuff is closed and I don't see why anyone would want to use it TBH...19:05
timeless_mbpok :)19:05
timeless_mbpdoes alsa have its own settings?19:05
timeless_mbpi'm just trying to pick something to do19:05
timeless_mbphow about "date and time" ?19:05
Stskeepsdate and time is open afaik, johnx was a bit on it but he's busy19:05
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timeless_mbpok, zenity make a calendar easy19:07
* timeless_mbp looks for a time picker19:08
timeless_mbpzenity doesn't seem to do time input :(19:08
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flexxxvsomeone on?19:08
Myrttisudo make me a manicure19:08
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flexxxv:P Anybody knows were to find high resulution  n800 shematics?19:09
qwerty12_N810They don't exist on the internetz :(19:09
flexxxvI cant read the text here:
Stskeepsget better glasses? :P19:10
flexxxvdont think so19:10
flexxxvi need some higher dpi19:10
flexxxv:D :D :D19:10
qwerty12_N810Know a worker at a local authorized Nokia center that is partial to bribery?19:12
flexxxvhow about level 4&5 manuels19:12
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timeless_mbpnokia has an official policy against bribery :)19:13
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CutMeOwnThroatlike... you're not supposed to get caught?19:13
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qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: if it works as well as their one against leaks... :P19:13
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timeless_mbpwell, the last time i saw a presentation on the policy, it was buggy19:14
flexxxvstill hoping for a new stylus for my n800 here in Germany...19:15
flexxxvmy local store cant get one19:15
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flexxxvmaybee I should open a thread in the forum for request, mybee someone have :D19:16
flexxxvand maybee I should ask him: (today on hackaday)19:18
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* timeless_mbp ponders19:21
timeless_mbpmer doesn't include curl19:22
timeless_mbpdoes python include an http library?19:22
mgedminyes, three of them, at least19:22
mgedminfor getting files, urllib or urllib2 is best19:22
mgedminfor raw http, there's httplib19:22
mgedminurllib2 has fancy features like supporting cookies and http auth19:23
timeless_mbpi want to download a fixed url into a string (not to a file)19:23
timeless_mbpi only need a tiny part of that file19:23
mgedmina_string = urllib.urlopen('').read()19:23
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mgedminif it's a huge file and you need a tiny part, there's a way to supply a Range: http request header somehow19:24
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timeless_mbpi don't really know the range, the file is
mgedminare you reinventing ntpdate?19:24
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mgedmina regexp would be quickest, maybe19:25
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i'd rather make a rdate call or something19:26
mgedminthere are many http and xml parsers available for python; they deal with ill-formed real-world html with various levels of success19:26
Stskeepsar, no, doesn't do rdate anymore19:26
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flexxxvI hava an other question: If i have inserted a internal sd in my n800 on startup i cant acces (the cards shows up emty), but if i remove, close the case, open again and put the card again I can access without problems. Only the internal slot has that kind of probs... (I think it is a software problem). I reay dont want to reflash because everyhing else is just working perfekly19:30
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qwerty12_N810flexxxv: My N800 started to exhibit the same behaviour after inserting a dodgy SD in the external slot. Reflashed, and it still does it. I just live with it, thankful that the slot still works :)19:32
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timeless_mbpactually, i'm not sure that's really so important right now19:33
timeless_mbpthe bigger problem is that  i can't find any easy way to make a time widget19:34
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wazd_n800now it's my turn to ride the train19:37
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flexxxvqwerty good that you tell me so I'm not going to try this :D (I am very happy with the current setup) but I realy would like to know why this is going on!19:47
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thuxot does any pc lap have backlight keyboard like macbook suppose to have?19:50
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wazd_n800better buy macbook and install win/lin =)19:54
wazd_n800It would be cheaper for US19:55
thuxoh is vaio that expensive19:56
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wazd_n800yep, but their design is much less bpring than macbook's19:56
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jeez_fiferboy, lbt: ok, now I'm testing your fremantle packages. After installing libqt4-gui, core and opengl from extras-devel (4.5.2) all I got when running a example with "graphicssystem raster" is: "./collidingmice: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/graphicssystems/ undefined symbol: _ZN17QGLGraphicsSystemC1Ev"20:24
fiferboyjeez_: This is in scratchbox?20:24
jeez_well, and for installing libqt4-opengl I had to add the Nokia binaries repository so I could install libgles220:24
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jeez_fiferboy: yes, and also in the omap320:24
fiferboyjeez_: What cpu-transparency method are you using in scratchbox?20:25
jeez_fiferboy: qemu-arm-sb20:26
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fiferboyjeez_: Try using qemu-arm-cvs-m20:27
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fiferboyjeez_: That makes a difference for me in compiling Qt in scratchbox, but if you already got it compiled it might not change things for you20:27
jeez_yes, I managed to compile it20:27
jeez_and now I'm trying qt-maemo packages20:28
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fiferboyjeez_: Ah.  Again I have never run opengl or fremantle binaries20:29
fiferboyjeez_: Did you manage to get a hold of Antonio?20:29
jeez_no, I didn't20:29
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jeez_well, maybe is time to mail him20:29
jeez_thanks fiferboy20:29
fiferboyjeez_: I know Antonio has been running the fremantle binaries20:30
jeez_lbt: what about you ?20:31
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lardmanhey javispedro20:32
coldbootHow would I change libqtgui4's debian package dependency? I made a 4.5.0-1maemo2-wgen0 version, but I want it to depend on 4.5.0-1maemo2 instead of 4.5.0-1maemo2-wgen020:33
coldbootI know how to do it manually.20:33
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javispedrobtw, lardman, do you have a 770?20:35
fiferboycoldboot: In debian/control there is a ${binary:Version} variable, I think that controls it20:35
lardmanyes I do20:35
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javispedrodid you try the whole experiment on it?20:35
lardmanno, I was testing on the n800 iirc20:36
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javispedrojust curious; being an older device it may have a more complete implementation of dbx20:37
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lardmanjavispedro: I'll certainly have a look, but probably not for a couple of days I'm afraid20:37
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javispedrodon't worry :)20:38
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lardmanhmm, not sure my scratchbox messing about has worked too well, reboot time20:46
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slonopotamusi officially hate autotools. checking whether we are using the GNU Fortran 77 compiler... no20:49
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mgedminthere is one Python package that actually uses a bit of *fortran* in the sources20:51
mgedminI don't remember which one --- matplotlib perhaps?20:51
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slonopotamusmgedmin, that doesn't explain why every f*cking package searches for it. oh, and 32768 commandline args20:52
slonopotamusand grep that handles long lines and -E switch20:53
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slonopotamusi had a wonderful time trying to compile gnu grep in busybox environment. its configure script wanted gnu grep.20:53
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lcukbesty place to get a car charger from?21:05
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RST38hOh, no.... it is starting the INTERnet!21:36
RST38h(DECnet has been started a while ago)21:37
Stskeepsyou're putting up a VAX or? :P21:37
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esaym153ugh, where are some n810's in stock at besides ebay21:59
jhford after flashing an n810 with an image that I have generated and the shutdown screen looks like it isn't using the hildon ui stuff21:59
mgedminthere's a shutdown screen?22:01
* mgedmin never shuts his n810 down22:01
esaym153mgedmin: sell me your n81022:01
toggles_1yeah, min needs rebooting daily22:01
RST38hthat's about right22:02
LinuxCodemine dies every so often, as it runs out of power hehe22:02
RST38hruns out of battery pretty fast, but I found it is due to wifi22:02
qwerty12_N810"->   1     4 days, 22:16:33 | Linux 2.6.21-omap1        Wed Jul 22 21:43:48 2009"22:02
mgedminrebooting I do22:02
RST38hnever need to reboot though22:02
toggles_1qwerty12_N810: cat /etc/*elease*22:02
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RST38hhave to kill browserd processes every now and then22:03
* mgedmin charges his every night, except the day before yesterday when he forgot and the n810 was dead in the morning22:03
qwerty12_N810toggles_1: diablo22:03
toggles_1qwerty12_N810: traitor!22:03
RST38hFuck, it is one of the MOV* instructions22:03
jhfordis there a way that I can access the raw mtd devices on the n810 without the os being on22:03
lcukim sure a hammer and chisel could give required access22:04
jhfordwhen i press the shut down button, the question about whether i want to turn off the device uses GTK plain (win95 style) buttons22:06
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Stskeepsinstalled powerlaunch or something?22:07
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jhfordi don't care what it looks like (they are automated, no humans use them) i just want to make sure that it isn't broken22:10
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lcukjhford, working for skynet?22:13
lcukhow come humans dont use them?22:13
lcukand it does beg the question of who does use em22:13
lcukand whether they would care if the buttons are themed22:14
jhfordautomated performance testing22:14
jhfordi dont care that the buttons are themed, i care that there might be something wrong with my rootfs image22:14
lcuki cant say ive ever noticed, i always just press the button till it shutsdown22:15
mgedminwhat kind of firmware do you have?22:15
mgedminthe power menu on stock os2008 is definitely themed like the rest of the UI22:16
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lcukjhford, is your testing anything like this:
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jhfordno, unfortunately :P22:21
javispedrodo they want me to believe that a "little" phone like that on the video can survive a golf club?22:25
javispedroi've seen balls crushed22:26
Stskeepsmy n810 can certainly take a severe beating22:27
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javispedroStskeeps, I've recently discovered why Apple tends to talk about their "MagSafe" so much22:28
javispedromy N810 helped a lot on that "research"22:28
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lcukthe golf club one isnt so extreme22:29
lcukit depends on the angle of attack22:29
jhfordhe didnt whack into it hard enough22:29
lcukstill.. an iphone would shatter - there has to be similar forces there to dropping from desk22:29
RST38hjavispedro: where have you seen balls crushed? is there a video?22:29
javispedroRST38h, personal experience ;)22:30
lcukRST38h, specialist BDSM websites22:30
RST38hoh. sorry.22:30
mgedminI'm in the middle of "nokia phone versus X" and suddenly "youtube is down for maintenance"22:30
lcukits a google conspiracy!22:30
RST38hlcuk: Naah, the accidentality of it is what I am looking for =)22:30
lcukjavispedro, you took far too long to mention experience22:31
lcukerr joking22:31
mavhciphone is for people who a) want a smartphone they can use or b) want to go where all the apps are22:32
javispedroNokia phone vs YouTube22:32
lcukmavhc but there are rebels in the force!22:33
RST38hmavhc: iphone is shiny.22:33
mgedminiphone is for people who have a poor saving throw against shiny22:33
lcukpeople are not entirely happy with apples tight reign on their devices22:33
RST38hmgedmin speaketh the truth22:33
* lcuk likes shiny stuff :)22:33
mgedminI think only the requirement of having iTunes to activate one saved me from getting one22:33
lcukand slidey stuff22:33
mgedminiTunes doesn't run on Linux22:33
lcukactivate in store :)22:34
mavhcactivate and use22:34
mavhcthere are 2 kinds of people: those who think error messages aren't detailed enough, and those who just don't read them, iphone is for the 2nd group22:34
RST38hBuy and jailbreak immediately22:34
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lcukjailborkened loses itunes support doesnt it22:35
javispedro3 meters and the iphone shits itself?22:35
RST38hlcuk: Who cares?22:35
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lcukpeople who buy iphones lol22:35
lcukthey didnt mostly buy it to hack with it22:35
mavhcdoes it break the app store?22:35
RST38hiTunes is another corporate toilet plunger they try to stick into you22:36
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lcukbetter to be the plunger than the plungee22:37
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RST38hlcuk: With iTunes, you are the plungee.22:42
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mavhcstill, better for most people22:47
RST38hPeople who are stupid enough to organize their mp3 files22:48
lcuknothing wrong with it22:48
lcukpeople like order and arranging things22:49
lcukand everyone has their own favorite way :)22:49
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mavhcseems like there's 3 classes of users: ones who buy a computer managed by a company, eg iphone, ones who want root access, and ones who get their computer managed by their friend who has root22:49
lcukits just like books or real albums and collections of all sorts :)22:49
RST38hwhy do you need to manage computer at all?22:49
mavhcbecause you want root22:49
RST38hlcuk: I can do it without itunes22:50
lcukwhats root?22:50
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mavhcyou can't do anything you want and have it managed, without pay a lot anyway22:50
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mavhcmost people shouldn't have root on their computers, they'll just screw them up, get viruses, etc22:52
lcuk0thank god windows doesnt come with root! i would be worried about gettin a virus22:52
mavhcthanks for ignoring the point22:53
lcukjust a min ago you said you wanted it22:53
lcukthen you changed mind22:53
mavhciphone you can only install approved apps, no viruses, auto updates, etc22:53
wazd_n800thanks to dumb win developers that can't code their shit properly so it's not working without root.22:54
mavhcI want it, I don't want the rest of my family to have it, they're not computer experts22:54
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lcukhow would you decide whether to give someone root or not22:55
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mavhcthey decide by installing linux instead of iphone os22:55
lcukso root users arent allowed any shiney things22:56
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lcukwhat if theres an app on itunes to show uptime22:56
lcukor one to give ls directories22:56
lcukor running apt for you22:56
mavhcbe more generic22:56
mavhciphoneos is an example22:56
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lcukat what level do YOU need root - and could it be supplied by pretty app within iphone/maemo22:57
lcukso you dont need root22:57
lcukdifferent people have different expectations of the backend22:58
lcuksome folks think just having a terminal window is hardcore22:58
wazd_n800to root or not to root...22:58
RST38hhaving root isn't really necessary22:58
RST38hand not having root does not mean some company should be permanently watching over your device22:58
mavhc99% of people don't need, and shouldn't have, root on their computer, because it breaks things, gives you viruses, etc22:58
lcukmaemo is a prime example22:58
RST38hMost network routers live all their lives without anyone rooting them22:59
lcukmajority of users never have to gainroot22:59
wazd_n800RST38h, unless it's google :)22:59
RST38hGoogle has no access to my machine either23:01
RST38hNo Picasa. No Google stripbar..errr...searchbar23:01
mavhcno using google.com23:01
RST38husing is ok23:01
lcukthats not "inside" the machine23:01
mavhcwhat about evil cookies!23:01
lcukom nom nom23:01
RST38hwhatever I entrust to I do not much care about23:02
lcukgot any milk?23:02
esaym153I got balls of steel23:02
RST38hdo they make good cowbells?23:02
mavhchow do you reproduce?23:02
wazd_n800I hate google update, which stays on your PC after uninstalling google earth and any google software23:02
mavhcgoogle update or google updater23:02
RST38hwazd: I removed it manually23:02
lcuki'm guessin iron filings23:03
RST38htook some effort but it is gone now23:03
mavhcgoogle updater is a package manager for windows23:03
wazd_n800dunno exactly, justidle process working on my machine all the time, waitingfor it's time xD23:04
mavhcgoogle update is a scheduled task to update chrome and stuff23:04
mavhcupdate is open source23:04
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RST38hwhatever it is, open or closed, it is cancer23:04
mavhcwhich and why?23:05
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RST38hanything that runs in the background not doing useful work should be killed23:05
mavhcit does useful work, it updates apps23:05
RST38hI did not ask it23:05
RST38hAnd I have all the apps uninstalled23:06
mavhcso uninstall it23:06
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mavhcin theory it'll keep software updated even though noone with root logs in, which is good23:07
RST38hSorry, I do not want stray processes "updating" apps23:08
qwerty12_N810and it runs as SYSTEM?23:08
RST38hIf an app wants to update itself, let it check for updates on startup and ask me23:08
mavhcso package management is a bad idea? every app should check for updates itself?23:08
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RST38hOn windows yes23:08
RST38hLinux runs system wide package update manager every now and then23:09
mavhcalso selecting an infected pfd file can infect you without loading acrobat23:09
RST38hWhat does it have to do with the topic?23:09
RST38hReturning to our sheep, I see no difference between Google applications and Google Update23:10
RST38hSo from my point of view, Google installs an app that runs in background for no good reason23:10
RST38hAnd I want it gone. Period.23:10
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mavhcwhich app?23:13
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RST38hGoogle Updater23:13
RST38hOr Update, whatever23:14
mavhcthey're completely different23:14
RST38hIf either of them runs in background, I want it gone.23:14
vasily_pupkinwhat you are talk about?23:14
RST38hvasily: mavhc is trying to persuade me that Google is running background processes for my own good23:14
mavhcgoogle update is a scheduled task, and uninstalls itself, and is open source, so that's fine23:14
RST38hvasily: I am saying that I want this crap gone.23:14
vasily_pupkinoh shi23:15
mavhcgoogle updater is a package management system that has an uninstall item on the start menu, so that's fine23:15
vasily_pupkini think we need remove GU and install dpkg there :D23:15
RST38hWell, as long as software updates are done by the system itself, it is ok23:16
RST38hBut various apps running self-update background processes are a cancer23:16
mavhcso you'd want one app to update everything, say googleupdater.exe23:17
vasily_pupkinself-update is pagan magic23:17
qwerty12_N810RST38h: Agreed. Ever encountered Adobe Updater BTW? That one starts up with any Adobe product you run23:17
mavhcgood thing too, adobe software is full of holes23:17
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RST38hqwerty: Yes, I usually kill it in the registry23:17
sneakretSeems off-topic for #maemo.23:17
qwerty12_N810sneakret: Welcome to #maemo.23:18
mavhchaving a pdf on your system without running it can infect you, thanks adobe23:18
RST38hsneakret: Would you rather have us discuss the latets n9x0 tablet from Nokia?23:18
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mavhcor the latest OS update from nokia23:18
RST38hmavhc: having a file on my system that isn't being opened or executed cannot infect me.23:18
vasily_pupkinlatest - as of end of last year? ))23:18
RST38hvasily: No, the very latest update that finally makes Modest and MicroB usable!23:19
wazd_n800RST38h, google runs hidden background process  for your own good. Obey or die :)23:19
vasily_pupkinholy shit!23:19
mavhcRST38h: it's opened by explorer, which is dll linked to acrobat for extented info23:19
RST38hwazd: I prefer self-surgery23:19
vasily_pupkinis that possible? O_O23:19
RST38hvasily: no.23:19
vasily_pupkinyeh ^_^23:19
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Jaffalcuk: ping23:25
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jhforddoes anyone have a good guide for setting up mmc booting available23:47
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taligAnybody had any experience with packaging python to .deb packages? [for Maemo Diablo]?23:50
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lcukjhford, on the maemo wiki23:51
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lcuktalig, khertan has an on maemo python packaging tool23:52
jhfordlcuk: thanks23:52
taliglcuk: khertan?23:52
taliglcuk: Thanks. Googled, downloading. let's see what gives23:53
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taliglcuk: I'm on Khertan's website. It looks like the tool is gone :(23:56
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