IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-07-19

RST38hstarted converting it to qt, no doubt =)00:01
`0660_do you think the next device will be compatible with harmattan?00:02
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slonopotamus`0660, of course not!00:16
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wazdslonopotamus: mark the sarkasm with smiles :)00:21
slonopotamuswazd, oh, right, sorry00:21
wazdslonopotamus: maybe it's a Gizmodo writer :)00:21
wazdslonopotamus: he will take it too close to his heart :)00:22
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`0660i guess the gtk support will be pretty good in harmattan, as it will be the primary toolkit in fremantle00:29
`0660it won't need much community work00:29
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slonopotamusif anyone cares, i've released 0.1 versions of fb_text2screen and open-wlan-cal:
slonopotamus02:53am... yikes!01:54
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xnt14~seen b-man1605:29
infobotb-man16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 23h 22m 16s ago, saying: 'i'm shure you can find one for under $200 ;)'.05:29
xnt14~seen FireFox1605:29
infobotfirefox16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 10d 22h 2m 30s ago, saying: 'damn :('.05:29
xnt14~seen IceFox1605:29
infoboti haven't seen 'icefox16', xnt1405:29
* xnt14 got a google wave invite!!!05:30
xnt14well its not bad05:30
chxxnt14: where?????05:30
xnt14still needs some ui inprovments and it needs to cut back on ram usage05:30
chxxnt14: I would like a Google Wave invite so bad it hurts.05:30
xnt14chx, sign up for the dev invite form thing :P05:31
xnt14thats what i did05:31
chxoh? where?05:31
xnt14I signed up two weeks ago05:31
xnt14and I got activated today05:31
xnt14I tried it on my nit05:32
xnt14it crashed microb so bad it crashed the whole os :P05:32
xnt14it needs MAJOR ram improvements :P05:32
xnt14my ipod crashed, but not instantly05:32
* xnt14 wonders if he should make a maemo/mer wave....05:33
GAN8001It didn't crash MicroB05:33
GAN8001Triggered the watchdog05:33
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xnt14well, it rebooted my nit05:33
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GeneralAntillesRight, at 100% CPU for too long.05:34
xnt14I thought it took up all the ram :P05:34
xnt14on iPhoneOS, the kernel reboots if the ram gets full05:35
* xnt14 wonders if there are people in here who are on google wave..05:36
xnt14maemo phones? :P05:38
xnt14maemo 5 phones? :P05:38
GeneralAntillesOOM killer generally kills apps, but doesn't reboot.05:39
GeneralAntillesSeems unlikely05:39
GeneralAntillesNetbooks seems like a more believable story to me.05:39
xnt14your right05:39
xnt14nokia  C1? :P05:40
GeneralAntillesEngadget's coverage of the filing is particularly hilarious.05:40
chxThis is pretty silly to ask, i know (remember? i do not have an n810. lost one which i had only for a few weeks) but is there an MP3 player on the N810? A good one... like Songbird on the desktop.05:57
xnt14I use mpd + sonata, works pretty well for me.....05:58
chx? i want to play the music on the device05:59
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xnt14mpd is a background program which plays music in the background06:01
xnt14sonata is a nice gui interface to mpd06:01
xnt14by the way mpd stands for music player daemon06:02
chxi know06:02
chxbut i thought that runs on a desktop and sonata is a remote?06:02
xnt14mpd can run on the device itself too06:03
xnt14sometimes, I run mpd on my nit and I run sonata on my desktop for easy song change06:04
xnt14and sonata is in the repos06:04
chxgreat, thanks06:04
xnt14just download all the debs onto the nit and install via app manager or dpkg06:04
xnt14np :)06:04
xnt14you just need the deb files from the mpd section and the libs section ;)06:05
xnt14mpc is for command line controll06:05
xnt14and a2dpd is for stereo bt headphones06:06
chxoh, i am old fashioned and use wires.06:06
chxI have a Bose QC3.06:06
chxThat thing, while pricey, is almost mandatory for longer flights06:06
xnt14well, I want to get a motorokr s9 :P06:07
chxI wear glasses and also hate sticking anything in my ear, which pretty much reduces the available noise cancelling headphones to the QC3.06:07
xnt14im back06:20
xnt14:P I also wear glasses, and I'm stuck with apple earphones, I really want to get a motorokr s9 but my parents won't let me get one :P06:21
Luke-JrI think I wouldn't mind digitizing many of my inputs06:22
Luke-Jrat least eyes and ears06:23
Luke-Jrchx: Maemo doesn't have any decently usable software, really.06:23
chxLuke-Jr: I think I have learned about your attitude yesterday and I am not buying it06:23
Luke-Jrchx: fine, learn the hard way :þ06:24
chxi had an n810. it worked.06:24
chxas said, it's not perfect.06:24
Luke-JrN810 Maemo is unmaintained anyway06:24
chxthere is nothing else.06:24
Luke-Jrmodern Maemo versions don't support the N810 anymore06:24
chxthere are a number of N810 users still and they will support06:25
chxheck, there are 770 users even.06:25
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xnt14twitter fail (for now xD)
* xnt14 backs up his tweets06:26
Luke-Jrchx: they have already said they WON'T support it06:26
xnt14chx, are you a linux user?06:27
chxLuke-Jr: who are the "they"? Everybody who owns an N810 and codes for it? dont be silly06:28
chxxnt14: since 1993.06:28
Luke-Jrchx: Nokia06:28
xnt14Luke-Jr, Mer is maemo5 for the n8x0, and when the n900 comes out, ill buy it and give my nit to my dad, its not outdated06:28
chx[20:25] <chx> there are a number of N810 users still and they will support06:28
xnt14chx, :)06:28
xnt14linux 5 years ;)06:28
chxxnt14: on the desktop only since 2004. it took a while... i used for a bit in 1999 but then Windows 2000 came and that was good enough for a while.06:29
* xnt14 is a 14 year old linux user xDD06:29
xnt14well...ok :P06:29
Luke-JrI think I've been using Linux about 11 years06:29
Luke-Jrchx: that's not Maemo, that's Mer06:29
Luke-Jrchx: and Nokia won't support it themselves06:29
xnt14luke-jr, nokia supports mer...06:30
Luke-Jrwhich would be fine, except that the N810 has closed hardware06:30
Luke-Jrthat the community alone cannot use06:30
chxwhat on earth are you talking of06:30
Luke-Jrthe GPS mainly ☺06:30
Luke-Jrbattery charger too I guess06:30
xnt14your right about that06:34
xnt14chx, btw im 14 :P06:34
Luke-JrEdLin: sound works fine :þ06:34
chxxnt14: hah06:35
EdLinLuke-Jr: sound works in non-maemo?06:35
* xnt14 hates his keyboard06:35
Luke-JrEdLin: if you use a recent kernel06:35
Luke-Jrlike 2.6.30-rc806:35
EdLinLuke-Jr: which alternate non-Maemo stuff supports sound on the n810?06:35
Luke-JrEdLin: I have used it in Gentoo06:35
chxxnt14: that's fine, i have a friend who is not yet 14 and he was a good enough programmer to give a google tech talk when he was 12.... (oh and he is an award winning composer too)06:35
Luke-Jractually, one thing I couldn't get: microphone/input06:36
Luke-Jrbut tbh, the N810's mic sucks anyway06:36
xnt14chx, awesome06:36
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Luke-Jrchx: Google has pathetic programmers, that's nothing special06:36
Luke-Jrthey can't write decent code for beans06:36
xnt14Luke-jr, just shut up, I'm sick of you yelling about random crap06:37
Luke-Jrxnt14: no u06:37
Luke-Jrxnt14: when was the last time you saw a decent Google product?06:37
Luke-Jrhint: the only one I've ever *heard of* was purchased from another company06:37
Luke-JrKeyhole, no idea what they renamed it anymore06:38
chxyou can talk when you have written a better webmail than gmail06:38
xnt14Google wave has potential06:38
xnt14gmail ftw06:38
Luke-Jrxnt14: ever looked at gmail code?06:38
xnt14have you?06:38
Luke-Jrchx: not difficult, really, just time consuming06:38
Luke-Jrxnt14: yes06:38
Luke-Jror rather, analyzed it06:38
Luke-Jrxnt14: GMail uses ActiveX06:39
Luke-Jrif it can06:39
xnt14who cares06:39
chxthey do their best to deliver an experience06:39
Luke-Jrbecause Google doesn't know how to write standards-compliant code that works in all browsers06:39
xnt14I don't use ie06:39
Luke-Jrxnt14: the main problem is their inability to write portable webapps06:39
chxyou just told everyone know who knows that everyone already suspected: you know jack shit06:39
Luke-JrGMail targets Firefox and IE06:40
Luke-Jrwhat browser does GMail work in that it isn't specifically targetting?06:40
chxif you think "standards compilant code" works in all browsers then you never ever tried to write any webapp.06:40
chxOpera to begin with.06:40
Luke-Jrchx: my browser is standards compliant06:40
chxyes but IE is not!06:40
xnt14IE is utter crap, it ms' fault06:40
* xnt14 burns IE for the 988888th time06:41
Luke-Jrchx: the real problem is that their code is all written for specific browsers, not to adhere to standards06:41
chxof course.06:41
chxthat's pretty understandable.06:41
Luke-Jra proper developer would write it according to the standards, and go back and add IE support hacks as a conditional06:41
chxare you sure you want to explain to *me* the what and the how of web application?06:41
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Luke-Jrand anyone can look at Chrome's code06:43
Luke-Jrobviously the right way to do Chrome would be to use a portable language like Qt406:43
Luke-Jrnot write a Windows app and go back to port it later06:44
Luke-Jrand then port it in the worst way possible06:44
xnt14well windows *is* the most used platform06:44
xnt14ok then06:44
Luke-Jrxnt14: Qt4 apps run on Windows, Linux, and Mac without many if any code changes06:45
Luke-Jrnative appearance on every platform06:45
xnt14chromium is open source, go and rewrite chrome in qt4 then06:45
Luke-Jrxnt14: no need, there are already better browsers06:45
xnt14just shutup, your giving me a headache06:46
Luke-Jrlol XD06:46
Luke-Jrlet's play Yandere then06:46
xnt14I want to go back to hacking flightgear06:46
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Macerwin7 speed is like xp08:24
Macerit is snappy08:24
Macerwonder how they managed to get vista to go fast08:24
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chxSeriously! someone ported *freeciv* to Maemo?08:55
EdLinMacer: they probably made Vista go-slow on purpose, because MS sells operating systems by selling hardware. When that backfired, they removed the speed brakes.08:58
chxbtw how can i press a key like f4 or f12 on the n810?09:01
chxnot too easy to google on that.09:01
chxeven tear wanted some of those09:06
MacerEdLin: sells operating systems by selling hardware?09:12
Macermeaning they made it slower to make people think they needed faster hardware?09:12
Macersome of the idiotic stuff these apps try to install09:12
Macerl;ike nero7 tries to install the ask toolbar?09:13
Macerdaemontools tries to install a daemon search bar?09:13
Macerinstalled win709:13
Maceropensolaris wasn't cutting it as a desktop09:13
Macerworks GREAT as a server09:13
Macerbut :) as a desktop it seriously sucks09:13
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RST38hMoo Macer09:18
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chxso no idea on function keys_09:22
MacerRST38h: yup09:24
chxxkbd ?09:24
Macerid use debian if it didnt run slow on this k4509:24
Macerseems like xorg has really shitty intel vid drivers09:25
chx /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 ?09:26
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* Stskeeps ponders if anyone ever tried tiddlywiki in Tear11:26
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Stskeepswoo, at 999 thanks at iTT11:51
Stskeepswith 500 posts11:51
RST38hHeya Sts11:51
RST38hAh, you karma whore...11:51
Stskeepsyes, i am :P it gives me a hint that i'm doing something right.. which i kinda need or i get bored :P11:52
RST38hHeh, can't argue with that11:53
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RST38hSts: BTW, I have found yesterday that no amount of handcrafted assembly code makes VGBA display drivers any faster11:55
RST38hKinda disappointing =(11:55
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RST38hI am probably hitting a memory bandiwdth wall somewhere, dunno...11:56
* Stskeeps ponders if he has a micro to minisd adapter somewhere11:57
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JaffaMorning, all12:18
Stskeepsmorning jaffa12:20
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wazdhooah Maemo12:26
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RST38hheya wazd12:35
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* RST38h yawns. Anything interesting today?13:11
wazdRST38h: Nokia Trademarks "C-Series" of Devices :)13:11
RST38hwazd: Yea, seen this13:14
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RST38hwazd: Personally, I think they either going to move nnnn devices to Cnnnn or use C series for netbooks13:15
wazdRST38h: the second variant is more expected I think13:16
RST38hwazd: Yes, but only if you believe that Nokia is going to start making netbooks13:17
wazdRST38h: cause dumbphones don't need series to tell everybody that they're dumb :)13:17
RST38hwazd: Lots of nnnn phones are no longer dumb13:17
RST38hwazd: And lots of them are better made than underbaked Nseries13:18
wazdRST38h: who knows, maybe Nokia's vision of netbooks differs from the World's :)13:18
wazdRST38h: 6300 is cool. yep :)13:18
wazdRST38h: but again, "dumbphones" are those bricks without any major OS like Symbian or something13:19
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RST38hYou mean S4013:19
RST38hAnd lower13:19
wazdRST38h: or s30 :)13:19
RST38hThere is also S30? Hm13:20
wazdRST38h: It's dumb-dumb phones :D13:20
RST38h"Quick rule: if it made it onto t-shirts, if you remember it even though high art makes you queasy, its real."13:31
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* wazd wonders why the hell he should close Firefox to uninstall Illustrator13:38
RST38hWhy should computer do all the work? :)13:38
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wazdRST38h: I just don't get the connection between them :)13:39
RST38hAh who cares13:39
RST38hProbably installing some FF extension13:39
wazdoh fuck13:40
wazdI bet he would ask to close FF to INSTALL it13:40
wazdgoddamn :(13:41
RST38hWho "he"? The Satan, I hope?13:41
wazdRST38h: ofcourse, who else can make such a bad jokes :)13:41
wazdI knew it...13:44
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RST38hAMD started pushing its Atom competitor to the masses...13:48
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lcukwhat a cool overview!14:11
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RST38hHmm...Orange RCA is a digital audio plug...14:31
lcukRST38h, is that something thats wrong, or an odd port you have noticed on the back of your rig14:34
RST38hAn odd port14:34
RST38hI have got the toslink port on the media pc, but obviously can't use it14:34
lcukyeah you can only watch original star trek episodes with it14:35
RST38huse it for the Borg light, yea14:35
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* slonopotamus needs someone with CAL storage format understanding16:37
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slonopotamusLuke-Jr, ping16:42
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Macerwhy is it so secretive?17:39
Maceri mean seriously.. is the gpu going to allow nations of concern thermonuclear warhead codes?17:39
Macer"We have PowerVR source! We conquer world now!"17:39
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lcukMacer they could take over the world without powervr, but how can they render the slick ui without it17:41
lcukwhat kind of self respecting evil genius maniac runs their destructive operations in 2d?17:42
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MasterOfNothinghey there good people :) I have a problem with scrobbling using maemoscrobbler w/default media player on an n810 with Diablo firmware. could anyone of you help?17:47
RST38hMacer: ImageTech is afraid for its "intellectual property", that's all17:47
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lcukis it legal to scrobble in public?17:49
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MasterOfNothing@lcuk: no, it's strictly prohibited, but I just have to take my chances :P17:51
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lcukMasterOfNothing, i heard that certain european countries allow scrobbling in your own home, and in selected coffee shops17:54
lcukas for cgetting the software to work i havent got a damned clue17:54
MasterOfNothingreally? no, haven't heard that, although has placed some restrictions on radio listening for non-subscribers in countries other than US, Canada and Germany17:56
Stskeepsthe 3 euro is worth it17:56
MasterOfNothingthe problem for me is that other apps like Canola and Vagalume - which have built-in scrobblers - scrobble just fine. it's just that the maemoscrobbler refuses to...17:57
MasterOfNothingI have looked at syslog and all, but I couldn't get any more info out it either17:57
MasterOfNothingFrom the control panel I can see either "Could not connect" or "Invalid username?" errors...17:58
MasterOfNothingStskeeps, sure, it's not that much. although it did case quite an uproar in the community upon announcement18:00
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Stskeepsi agree, but there's no free lunch18:01
Stskeepsi pay happily, saves me a load of trouble18:01
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Stskeepscombine with ..18:03
MasterOfNothingyeah, but I suspect that people were just mad that some countries got it for free... oh, well... I do very much like the service though, so for my part 3 $ isn't a big deal either18:03
MacerRST38h: so cant the just release closed bins?18:04
Macernvidia still does that dont they?18:05
StskeepsMacer: gpl problems18:06
Maceroh hawd18:06
Macernot the fucking gpl18:06
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Macerthen let them release the open stuff18:07
Macergpl doesnt say you are required to put your own code out there18:07
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Maceryou only have to make sure you provide the code protected by the gpl18:07
Macerlike unclassified cia documents18:08
Macersometimes i think the gpl was a mistake18:08
Macernot very well thought out in practice but released as concept18:09
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lcukMacer, whats better then18:11
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Maceri dunno18:13
Macergpl + proprietary lic?18:14
Macerwe can call it the gp+pl18:14
lcukthat doesnt help people tho18:14
derfWait, wait, I've got a name, the LGPL!18:14
Macerbecause +s make things cooler18:14
lcukusing gpl+prop license only allows base code to be used18:15
Maceroh yeah18:15
Macerlgpl does that doesnt it?18:15
* Macer hides18:15
lcukyeah, but you cannot just take a GPL app, add your own wrapper to it and call it lgpl18:15
derfYes, and that's by design.18:16
Maceri am thinking 3d accel proprietary gpu driver18:16
Macercompareds to a wrapper18:16
derfThe GPL is very clear. "If you want to take advantage of my code that I'm letting you use, you play by my rules."18:16
lcukwe do not know the ancestry of the powervr code though18:16
derfIf you don't like the rules, don't use the code.18:17
lcuki wonder what point that begins to breakdown tho, i bet like evolution, eventually the source will be transformed so much it loses its original identity18:18
derfI don't know. SCO taught us we can trace code back 30 or 40 years, if we have to.18:19
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lcukthe only thing they taught us was that darl mcbride was a cocksmoking teabagger with less brains than a shrinp18:19
lcukbut i digress18:19
lcuk^m :D18:20
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wazd <- wth is that18:34
radicwhere are the connection settings stored?18:43
qwerty12_N810gconf: /system/osso/connectivity18:43
wazd <- weehehe, I have 4 hours to make something :D18:46
wazdany ideas?)18:46
radicqwerty12_N810: was the message for me?18:48
qwerty12_N810radic: yes18:49
radicqwerty12_N810: in / isn't a dir named "system"18:49
qwerty12_N810I said gconf.18:50
slonopotamuswazd, that crap doesn't work in microb :)18:50
wazdslonopotamus: it's a real crap so you don18:51
wazdslonopotamus: don't miss anything :)18:51
slonopotamuswazd, hehe. you're using desktop kb18:51
slonopotamuscommon bug - to hit enter instead of ' :P18:52
radicqwerty12_N810: I want edit the config file(s) withe nano18:52
wazdslonopotamus: yep, I need a better one18:52
wazdslonopotamus: but if you want something done good - do it yourself :(18:52
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orangeyhey all!18:56
orangeyAre see I'm trying to install android18:57
orangeyany good tutorials out there?18:57
orangeyAt the moment, when I try to run it, I get: Setting up android-installer (1.0.0-2) ...18:57
orangeycp: cannot stat './root/android-installer/': No such file or directory18:57
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radicqwerty12_N810: If I'll connect there are many python instances rising and make a lot of load19:00
radicso eine scheisse...19:01
qwerty12_N810radic: What's the contents of /etc/network/if-up.d and /var/lib/alarmd/alarm_queue.xml ? (pastebin)19:04
radic/var/lib/alarmd/alarm_queue.xml doesn't exist19:09
radicnow again, many python instances...19:14
radicand if I kill them the device works fine19:14
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RST38bisnow i know what tablets are for...19:16
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RST38bisit is for those moments when the laptop battery dies19:19
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CutMeOwnThroatah, laptop as doorstopper19:24
CutMeOwnThroat+: heavier19:24
CutMeOwnThroat-:doesn't wedge as well into the gap under the door19:25
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RST38bismine is not much heavier19:25
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radicI'm confused19:26
radicpython wasn't installed but 2.5 binarys where there19:26
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radicnow I installed 2.4 and the problem was solved...19:27
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orangeyhey all. I'm trying to install android, but I get: cp: cannot stat './root/android-installer/': No such file or directory19:27
orangeywhat gives?19:28
orangeybut /root/android-installer/ exists19:28
radicorangey: and ./root/android-installer/ ?19:28
orangey./ to what?19:28
orangeyfrom my current working directory?19:29
radicorangey: remove the leading point...19:29
orangeyradic: ah. Perhaps I've been confusing.19:29
orangeyradic: # dpkg -i android-installer.deb  \ Setting up android-installer (1.0.0-2) ... \ cp: cannot stat './root/android-installer/': No such file or directory19:29
orangeyI'm not sure what working directory it uses, otherwise I would make a link19:30
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radicorangey: you are tring to copy ./root/android-installer/sandroid.sh19:33
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radicremove the .19:33
orangeyradic: *I* am trying to do nothing. It is within the android-installer.deb's processes19:33
radicorangey: then correct the install-script19:33
orangeyradic: How can I do that? I was trying to figure out how to get into the .deb19:34
radicar -x blah.deb19:34
radicthen you have a data.tar19:34
orangeyah. great. thank you19:34
orangeyI thought the main container was a .gz or bz2 and was trying to play with that.. anyhow, thanks.19:35
orangeyI ended up having success by moving it to /19:35
orangeyand then running dpkg from there19:35
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orangeyon another topic, any news about the successor to the n810? Last I heard, there was a slightly smaller thing coming out. has the date or anything been fixed on it? or specs or whatnot?19:37
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orangeywow. android on n810! pretty cool, though obviously of limited utility at this time : )19:39
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radicorangey: what are the differences between N800 and N810?19:43
orangeyradic: is there a keyboard on n800?19:46
chxorangey: the N900 likely comes out at Nokia World 0919:47
chxorangey: September 2-3 in Stuttgart.19:47
orangeychx: are the specs all confirmed yet?19:47
chxorangey: pretty much19:47
orangeythat thing people were talking about on t.m.o?19:47
orangeychx: with the smaller screen?19:48
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orangeywell, looking forward to it19:48
radicorangey: no19:48
orangeythough I'm not fabulously excited by the smaller screen19:48
orangeyradic: then that's one key difference.19:48
chxin like two years i will buy one19:48
orangeychx: why?19:48
orangeychx: THe main thing I'm feeling the pain of is no GSM19:48
chxonce the bugs ironed out and the ridiculously high price is decreased19:48
radicorangey: but your camera could be easily fingerprinted ;)19:49
orangeyoh. what will the price be?19:49
chxorangey: it will be HSPA19:49
orangeywhat's hspa?19:49
chxorangey: well, with HSPA it'll be phone-like pricing so my guess (and this is a guess) is 5-600 EUR.19:49
orangeychx: I hope not ; )19:49
wiretappedis there any word on if it will have non-voip voice calling?19:49
wiretappedeg, actually be a phone?19:49
chxI just bought an N810 (I lost my first one)19:49
orangeychx: n810 is pretty spectacular19:50
chxI am not holding my breath for the N90019:50
orangeybut I'm starting to feel the lack of development19:50
* wiretapped still hasn't obtained a new n810 battery yet :(19:50
orangeyit's actually my main phone19:50
orangeyusing SIP19:50
orangeyI would kill to have the SIP be full duplex, for example19:50
orangeyor to be able to use the video with anybody else19:50
orangeymaybe mer fixes that19:51
lcuk2 questions, full duplex?  you mean you currently use your phone like a CB radio? *OVER*19:51
orangeylcuk: almost19:51
lcukand how do you speak into it and use it like a phone19:51
chxi guess BT headset.19:51
orangeylcuk: the other person cuts out if we talk simultaneously19:51
orangeybt headset would do what?19:52
lcukthat sounds a bit odd then, are people ok with you, or do they moan you keeping missing what the other said?  *OVER*19:52
orangeywell, I generally talk to very understanding people19:53
orangeybut people who don't know me are very irritated19:53
orangeyit's not a HUGE deal19:53
orangeybut very irritating19:53
lcukorangey_friend:  ring-ring *facepalm*, its orangey again, wish he would get a real phone*   hiya orangey!19:54
orangeylcuk: almost : )19:54
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orangeywould a bt headset fix that problem?19:54
lcuki think skype even works properly19:55
lcukin phone context19:55
orangeyskype with video would be amazing19:55
lcukmmmn different argument, but fully agree with you :)19:55
orangeyalso, if I could make it so that I could select the ringing device, that would be super convenient for me19:56
orangeysince I refuse to be in the house with a bt headset on19:56
madhavisnt skype with video available right now19:56
madhavi guess it is19:56
orangeynot on n81019:56
madhav how abt this on n810?19:58
orangeyis anybody seriously using android on n8x0?19:59
lcuki would rather have tamiflu19:59
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orangeyI guess I would rather have that than a lot of things.20:03
orangeyin fact, almost anything20:03
orangeydo you actually mean heiney flu?20:04
glassi'd rather have sex than tamiflu right now..20:04
qwerty12_N810glass: overrated. use your hand... :P20:04
orangeyway to teach a man to fish20:04
glassa bit late20:04
glassit doesn't make you blind20:05
glassthe secret is out20:05
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orangeyso.. anybody seriously using android on n810?20:07
orangeyI think the pain I feel is the lack of speciality software20:07
lcukmy phone decided to tell me it was running low on battery20:07
orangeygarnetvm was supposed to fix that20:07
orangeybut it sucks20:07
lcukby flashing its lights and vibrating and making audible warnings20:08
lcukorangey, make your own then :)20:08
GeneralAntillesAndroid on N810 is a silly dead end.20:08
glassthe people using it "seriously" are probably devs20:08
bilboed-tps/Android on N810/Android/20:09
GeneralAntillesThat too.20:09
GeneralAntillesC-series is going to end up being Nokia's Android line.20:09
orangeybilboed-tp: why do you say so?20:10
RST38bisthat is a novel idea20:11
bilboed-tporangey, because it's a pile of closed-source crack ?20:11
bilboed-tps/closed-source/non-(L)GPL, reinvented from scratch/20:11
infobotbilboed-tp meant: orangey, because it's a pile of non-(L)GPL, reinvented from scratch crack ?20:11
GeneralAntillesJava, Google, cellular lockins.20:11
orangeybilboed-tp: I guess we're saying "dead end" in the longer term20:11
bilboed-tpJava isn't the problem here tbh20:11
orangeybecause in the short term, os2008 is a dead end20:12
JaffaGeneralAntilles: What Android line?20:12
glassandroids problems are purely political, and as such can't be fixed with a patch20:12
orangeyglass: this is true20:12
orangeyI obviously bought the n810 for the Free part20:12
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bilboed-tpif only it was just political... from a technical point of view it's retarded also (basically you can't re-use engineers used to a standard linux stack to work on making an Android phone)20:13
GeneralAntillesJaffa, with the way Nokia's flailing around these days, I figure them shipping two direct competitors in their lineup isn't as silly as it sounds. ;)20:13
bilboed-tpmaking life insanely hard for phone manufacturers => little chance of getting it adopted20:13
orangeyso, let's talk solutions for my n81020:13
glassbilboed-tp: the reason why it's retarded is the key, it's political -> can't be fixed with a patch, you'd need to change thoughts or people inside google20:13
orangeyMer seems immature20:13
orangeyandroid more so20:14
orangeywhat's the solution?20:14
GeneralAntillesMer is immature20:14
bilboed-tpglass, no, you could fork and do your own.... but even then it's shit20:14
glassorangey: whats wrong with what it shipped with?20:14
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GeneralAntillesBut it still doesn't have a non-beta stack to build from.20:14
glassbilboed-tp: sure you could, if you had twenty million or something20:14
glassbilboed-tp: to sell the device too20:14
GeneralAntillesGive it 3-6 months and get back to me.20:14
orangeyglass: 1) SIP support seems not great for me (will this really be fixed by a BT headset?); 2) I can't get a decent IM client any more. seems like pidgin isn't updated any longer20:14
orangeyGeneralAntilles: i.e., Mer will be mature in 3-6 mo?20:15
glasswhat is mature?20:15
GeneralAntillesIt'll likely actually have a final Fremantle release to build from by then.20:15
GeneralAntillesDay-to-day usable would be my guess.20:15
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chxfremantle on n810?20:16
infobotrumour has it, mer is, or on #mer20:16
chxwasnt there a cpu support issue?20:16
chxi c20:16
orangeyGeneralAntilles: what are you saying?20:17
orangeyGeneralAntilles: are you saying that with freemantle in the wild, mer will be better?20:17
GeneralAntillesMer is based largely on Fremantle technologies20:17
GeneralAntillesIf those technologies are either unreleased or in beta/alpha stages, how "mature" do you think Mer will be?20:17
orangeyI didn't know that, actually20:19
GeneralAntillesAnyway, in the short term OS2008 is the only really usable OS available.20:19
orangeywell, my biggest thing is  SIP client. Is that on Mer yet?20:19
GeneralAntillesJust use rtcomm?20:19
orangeyGeneralAntilles: I'm talking about prerequisites. I'm getting a bit frustrated with very few things in OS200820:20
orangeybut for me to experiment with Mer (or anything else), that's the ONE thing that has to work.20:20
GeneralAntillesAIM works fine in rtcomm in OS2008 for me.20:20
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orangeyGeneralAntilles: ICQ certainly doesn't.20:21
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orangeydo you guys know if it's possible to dual-boot android / mer / os2008?20:22
Stskeepskexec is broken sos20:22
* wiretapped wishes there was a way to do OTR with rtcomm20:22
orangeywiretapped: a bit paranoid, are we? : )20:23
wiretappedit should be on by default20:23
orangeyyou are correct20:23
wiretappedi use open wifi networks that i know are sniffed20:23
orangeymaybe I'll run another pet peeve by you guys.. what about a good calendar client?20:23
orangeyI've used all of them except for KO/PI (which I think would work, but I can't get running)20:24
RST38bisnews! nokia also came up with xseries now20:27
orangeyi want to say that my beefs with maemo are really, really minor. I've never been so happy with a PDA-like thing as the n81020:28
orangeyit's amazing20:28
orangeyand has really made my life better in so many ways20:28
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Stskeepsorangey: addictive stuff20:33
orangeyStskeeps: which?20:34
orangeyStskeeps: it's not addictive bad.20:34
orangeyit's that I had been hobbling through in the palm/WM wasteland20:34
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orangeyand then this thing came along that was fresh air.20:35
orangeywith linux, no less!20:35
orangeythe field is a bit different now, with the iphone, android, and palm pre20:35
orangeybut it's still grim for people who like to hack20:35
orangeyRST38bis: Seqretary is perfect20:36
glassyou know how many even if illegally hackable devices there were 5 years ago?20:36
RST38bisyou are welcome.20:36
orangeyglass: yeah, playing around on the iphone, android and palm pre is tough as compared to maemo20:36
RST38bisglass: ah, lots20:36
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glassRST38bis: for available for free for anyone..20:36
glasspractically free20:37
RST38bispretty much anything with buttons20:37
glassRST38bis: fresh stuff20:37
orangeysorry, what's the point?20:37
RST38bisis iphone or nit free?20:37
glassRST38bis: free compared to newton20:37
glassorangey: that it's not GRIM! :D20:37
RST38bisthe point is that one can alwys find something to hack20:38
glassorangey: in 5 years we'll have lots and lots of cool cheap phones etc20:38
GeneralAntillesglass, different levels of "hack", perhaps.20:38
orangeysure, you can always find something to hack. but are you saying hacking on WM is equivalent to doing it on the n810?20:38
RST38bisglass: lhc will get us first20:38
RST38bisor the crisis20:38
GeneralAntillesWebOS, Android, and iPhone OS all make it difficult for you to do what you want with your devices out of the box.20:38
glassorangey: as long as it gets the job done better than what you had previously20:39
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orangeyI remember it took years to get my ipaq's wireless to a usable state on the mobile linux distro of the day20:39
RST38bisGeneral depends on what you want to do20:39
orangeyGeneralAntilles: Agreed. but that was true of palmOS and WM. The difference is now at least there's a modicum of choice20:39
glassGeneralAntilles: inbetween servers are easy to hack together20:39
GeneralAntillesI'd much rather have a device which doesn't require me to play silly cat and mouse games with the manufacturer or wait on updates to do what I want with.20:39
glassGeneralAntilles: and again, computers are virtual/free compared to what they used to be20:40
orangeyGeneralAntilles: exactly20:40
GeneralAntillesOf course, RST38bis, but they're all much more locked down than Maemo.20:40
GeneralAntillesglass, sure, but that doesn't make the pill any more pleasant to swallow. ;)20:40
orangeyRST38bis: do you know off-hand where the .ics file is kept for seqretary?20:40
GeneralAntillesI used a Newton very happily for many years20:40
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GeneralAntillesbut that's not that platform experience I want now, nor is the Wii-style Homebrew experience you get with WebOS, Android and iPhone OS.20:41
glassGeneralAntilles: i would've too if i could have ever afforded one, heard of one20:41
orangeydamn! can Seqretary sync with anything?20:41
GeneralAntillesglass, eBay, 2000, $200.20:41
glassGeneralAntilles: back then20:41
glassGeneralAntilles: not now :D20:41
GeneralAntillesYear 2000.20:41
glassi had a 3110 then20:42
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GeneralAntillesI used a Newton 2100 2000-2004.20:42
glassor benefon io20:42
glassbenefon io probably, my first phone ever20:42
glassi turned 18 then20:42
glasswhich is when i got my first phone20:42
glassif the car broke down or shit like that20:42
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RST38bisGeneral: we do not yet  know how maemo will change... ;(20:48
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Macerdamn sorry ass pch21:01
Maceris slow as hell :)21:01
orangeyalright, off guys21:02
orangeysee you later21:02
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chxthere are some great devices but high resolution screen with a keyboard and a proper OS (aka not WinMo) that's only the N810.21:09
JaffaOr Oqo, or ...21:10
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Luke-Jrslonopotamus: …21:18
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, !21:18
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slonopotamusLuke-Jr, your CAL thingie has struct for storing CAL entry header. how you figuured it out?21:19
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: BME may contain CAL code. As a result, my CAL investigations have stopped.21:19
Luke-JrI can relay only what I learned before reading BME code21:19
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: I figured it out from hexdumping the CAL data21:20
Luke-Jrnothing more21:20
Luke-JrI suspect the unknown[8] may be checksum of some kind21:20
Luke-Jryeah, Stskeeps sent me some data with a better struct21:21
Luke-Jrafter the length, it has data and header crcs21:21
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slonopotamusLuke-Jr, remember, stskeeps sent you libcal stuff he got from gdb? can you pastebin it somewhere?21:23
ideamonkcan one setup maemo development environment on amd64 ?21:26
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slonopotamusideamonk, yep21:28
ideamonkslonopotamus: im running ubuntu amd64, where can i read more on how to setup the dev env on it ?21:28
ideamonkslonopotamus: i get this as of now - E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture.21:29
Jaffaideamonk: setarch i386 ./installer.sh21:29
ideamonkslonopotamus: while trying to setup the scratch box21:29
ideamonkJaffa: trying that out ...21:29
* Jaffa is working on a (relatively) lightweight cross-platform, predictable and easy-to-use dev env.21:29
JaffaBut it's not ready yet21:29
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slonopotamusJaffa, qemu binfmt chroot is everything that normal dev should want.21:30
ideamonkhmm seems like doesn't have amd64 packages but the installer tries to fetch them21:31
ideamonkW: Failed to fetch  404 Not Found21:31
ideamonkthanks anyways21:32
slonopotamusStskeeps, can you give it to me under gpl-3 license? :)21:32
Jaffaslonopotamus: Except speed ;-)21:33
Stskeepsslonopotamus: erm.. hmm :P21:33
Jaffaideamonk: There's a -F option on the installer script (IIRC) to force the arch21:33
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: AFAIK that's not Stskeeps copyrighted21:35
Stskeepssome may ponder what license gdb output is, heh21:35
Luke-Jrif that literally came from gdb, that means it's debugging symbols21:36
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Luke-Jrand arguably libcal code21:36
Luke-Jrthus, Nokia owned21:36
qwerty12_N810And you just pastebinned it...21:36
* Luke-Jr glares at Stskeeps for distributing Nokia code :þ21:37
Luke-Jrcan we argue it's too simple to be copyrighted?21:37
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slonopotamus_how do i attach gdb to running proccess without suspending it? :D21:39
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Luke-Jrwhat would be the point?21:40
slonopotamusi want to read 'info types' output without getting rebooted by wd :D21:41
slonopotamusoh. --eval --batch should do the thing21:42
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: #Mer21:42
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Luke-Jrslonopotamus: also, note gdb won't let you run any commands while a process is running21:45
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* RST38h hates Hates HATES VAX22:01
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Stskeepswoo, 1000 thanks :P22:05
RST38hyou ancient, retarded, microcode controlled, memory faulting piece of shite...22:08
Stskeepswhy are you doing VAX again? :P22:08
RST38hyou and your exceptions22:09
RST38hSts: money.22:09
Stskeepsah, yes22:09
RST38hoh I seem to know what is wrong22:12
RST38hAnd the idiot box is showing Babylon5 marathon tonight, hehe22:15
lbtwhat? Bab522:16
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RST38hlbt: Better, they are showing the-best-of episodes22:35
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RST38hAnd even better, they apparently used wiki or something to figure out what best episodes are22:35
RST38hAt least these do appear to be the best ones :)22:36
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Macerllink for opensolaris22:44
Macerwonder how well it works22:44
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