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| rm_you_ | lcuk RST38h: one of my friends just put up an away message with a link to one of your BASH.org quotes :P | 01:05 |
|---|---|---|
| *** rm_you_ is now known as rm_you | 01:05 | |
| rm_you | I lol'ed | 01:05 |
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| jhford | i am trying to create a standardized testing image for automation and I was wondering if there was a way to unpack the .bin firmware images | 01:18 |
| wazd | rm_you: oh?) | 01:19 |
| johnsq | jhford: flasher can it (iirc9 | 01:20 |
| wazd | oh, found it :D | 01:20 |
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| jhford | johnsq: oh? i tried flasher-3.0 -u image.bin and it didn't do anything that i cuold see | 01:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Give it the "-F" param too | 01:21 |
| esaym153 | yep | 01:21 |
| jhford | thanks :) | 01:21 |
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| wazd | http://i066.radikal.ru/0907/15/3aa637bed7b5.jpg <- quick work on OSM2Go icons | 01:22 |
| jhford | qwerty12_N810: thanks! | 01:22 |
| qwerty12_N810 | np | 01:22 |
| lcuk | rm_you, which | 01:23 |
| jhford | if i modify the rootfs, do i need to recreate a fiasco image? | 01:23 |
| wazd | lcuk: it's still in the latest | 01:23 |
| lcuk | #hi btw | 01:23 |
| lcuk | what is? | 01:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | jhford: No, flasher has an option to flash a jffs2 file directly | 01:23 |
| wazd | lcuk: http://bash.org/?latest | 01:23 |
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| jhford | qwerty12_N810: again, thanks :D | 01:24 |
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| lcuk | wazd, i found it ta :D | 01:25 |
| lcuk | rm_you, 2009-03-15 | 01:25 |
| lcuk | a long time ago | 01:25 |
| * lcuk prefered this one | 01:25 | |
| lcuk | lcuki thought you could get giffs from your local bbs22:12 | 01:25 |
| lcuk | lcukREDHOT~1.GIF ;)22:13 | 01:25 |
| lcuk | lcukand after downloading you discover its a scan of someones fireplace | 01:25 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lmao | 01:26 |
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| wazd | qwerty12_N810: lcuk: http://i066.radikal.ru/0907/15/3aa637bed7b5.jpg <- what do you think? | 01:26 |
| lcuk | waswas, could you please change your nick, i keep trying to message wazd and you get in the way. tyvm hope you understand lol | 01:27 |
| lcuk | i just looked wazd and i was trying to msg you back | 01:27 |
| wazd | lcuk: :D | 01:27 |
| lcuk | those look cool | 01:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: I like it :) | 01:28 |
| jhford | last question for today: how do i mount a jffs2 image or manipulate it | 01:29 |
| lcuk | wazd, your balls look shiney and nice, where do you get stock from, are they in psp or whatever? | 01:29 |
| lcuk | or hand rendered with 3d prog? | 01:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ... | 01:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Now, that's a quote :P | 01:29 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, shush, im admiring his balls | 01:29 |
| wazd | ))) | 01:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | jhford: http://wiki.maemo.org/Modifying_the_root_image | 01:30 |
| wazd | lcuk has just hacked my home porno archive I guess :D | 01:30 |
| jhford | qwerty12_N810: that works :) | 01:30 |
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| lcuk | wazd, if you have balls in your home porno collection you are doing it wrong! | 01:30 |
| wazd | lcuk: mine only :D | 01:30 |
| wazd | lcuk: I draw them in PS btw, it's easy :) | 01:31 |
| lcuk | ahhh so its just a ball generation tool | 01:31 |
| wazd | lcuk: use of 3d rendering for them is a bit overkill :) | 01:31 |
| wazd | lcuk: no, it's just shapes in right place :) | 01:31 |
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| wazd | lcuk: no automation :) | 01:32 |
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| lcuk | i actually managed to do some transparancy stuff last night | 01:32 |
| lcuk | my rusty installation of psp7 barely manages to save pngs and restore them again | 01:33 |
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| lcuk | holy crap! | 01:33 |
| lcuk | im just scavenging around my desktop pc to find media to be imported into my database | 01:34 |
| lcuk | theres 24000 sketches | 01:34 |
| lcuk | dupes of course | 01:34 |
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| javispedro | let me guess: all of the same sketch: wazd's balls | 01:35 |
| wazd | eeek | 01:35 |
| lcuk | :O | 01:35 |
| lcuk | not on your nelly | 01:35 |
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| lcuk | wazds balls are too shiny to be a sketch | 01:36 |
| * javispedro grabs dictionary | 01:36 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: isn't that why you've got 24,000 dupes? :?PJ | 01:36 |
| lcuk | heh | 01:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | *:P | 01:36 |
| javispedro | nelly "inferior or cheap wine" | 01:36 |
| lcuk | i need to find everything and import them, it will handle dupe removal, but its from backup folders and stuff | 01:37 |
| lcuk | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=not%20on%20your%20nelly | 01:37 |
| wazd | Pre UI is cool | 01:37 |
| * javispedro throws dictionary | 01:37 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: don't worry: lcuk speaks the northern dialect of English... | 01:38 |
| wazd | And it's much easier to test than Fremantle ones :( | 01:38 |
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| javispedro | wazd: and I guess it may run on a x86 pc too, so it's just a few days until the chinese make a x86 pre ripoff | 01:39 |
| lcuk | should run in firefox shouldnt it lol | 01:39 |
| wazd | javispedro: maybe :) | 01:39 |
| javispedro | lcuk: runs on chrome | 01:39 |
| lcuk | no i dont | 01:39 |
| wazd | I'm really surprised that russian language works absolutely fine in it | 01:40 |
| javispedro | "A chromosexual is a person who rides a motorcycle and tries to put every piece of chrome available on their bike." | 01:40 |
| lcuk | what res is it runnin at? | 01:40 |
| javispedro | - urban dictionary | 01:40 |
| wazd | 320x480 I guess | 01:41 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: I thought Maemo had this feature too? :D | 01:41 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: yep, but Pre never meant to be released in here I think :) | 01:41 |
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| amr | hmms | 01:41 |
| amr | reckon i can get 5 hours of wifi out of an n810? | 01:42 |
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| amr | im really not very consistent with using my tablet | 01:42 |
| lcuk | easily with power saving | 01:42 |
| amr | oh good | 01:42 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: really? I thought Russian phone market wasn't as convoluted as US one... | 01:42 |
| lcuk | if you use adhoc tho it will die in 4.2 hours exactly | 01:42 |
| amr | lol | 01:42 |
| amr | exactly? :P | 01:42 |
| lcuk | not a second more or less | 01:42 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: noone wants to work here :) | 01:42 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: greedy providers, no subsidizing allowed | 01:43 |
| javispedro | I get two full days with WLAN_INFRA as long as you use it as a paperweight | 01:43 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: absolutely no sense of marketing | 01:43 |
| lcuk | i can now leave irc idling for days | 01:43 |
| lcuk | the screen does the damage | 01:43 |
| amr | oh | 01:43 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: Ah. I thought it was just Canada that had really bad mobile phone networks :) | 01:44 |
| lcuk | i wonder when im gonna put the extra stuff into the .git | 01:44 |
| jhford | qwerty12_N810: canada does indeed have god-awful cell phone systems | 01:44 |
| wazd | I've fount one issue, menu left/right scrolling is super lame | 01:45 |
| wazd | I just found out that it works :) Only by chance | 01:45 |
| * lcuk hates side to side panning for some things | 01:46 | |
| wazd | and icons are pretty inconsistent | 01:46 |
| qwerty12_N810 | jhford: heh, I hear prices are extremely exorbitant... | 01:46 |
| jhford | i have a 250min/month package with basic data for $65/month | 01:47 |
| jhford | the data is on a phone so bad that it is useless | 01:47 |
| * lcuk has exactly 2 icons in system | 01:47 | |
| lcuk | ooh 3 | 01:47 |
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| amr | lcuk, liqbase-playground is lovely | 02:06 |
| amr | it's so smooth and quick | 02:06 |
| lcuk | yeah :) | 02:06 |
| * lcuk is busy actually making use of everything now | 02:07 | |
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| amr | i hope many people use your lib and make software that doesn't suck | 02:08 |
| amr | also, is minigpsd worth installing? | 02:09 |
| lcuk | i dunno | 02:09 |
| amr | when i have a-gps on the gps usually connects pretty quick so i'm not too fussed about the speed boost | 02:09 |
| lcuk | about other people using it, it doesnt bother me, i just wanted something to code in that didnt feel like it was underpowered | 02:10 |
| lcuk | ive never installed agps | 02:10 |
| amr | yeah i watched your presentation at maemo summit | 02:10 |
| lcuk | we dont have a problem gettin a lock in the car | 02:10 |
| amr | you're right, devices aren't cheap | 02:10 |
| amr | and the vast majority of software out there doesn't show the tablet in a good light :/ | 02:11 |
| lcuk | getting better tho | 02:11 |
| amr | yeah | 02:11 |
| amr | i forget what its called.. | 02:11 |
| lcuk | people are grasping that minimalistic approach works best | 02:11 |
| amr | yeah exactly | 02:11 |
| amr | the python program that connects to wordpress and such | 02:11 |
| amr | might just my wordpy or something like that | 02:11 |
| * lcuk sees too many big fat complex desktop apps | 02:11 | |
| amr | i was watching the screencast for that app in maemo5 (i think thats what its called...) | 02:12 |
| lcuk | yeah, tis lookin good | 02:12 |
| amr | and it was just designed so badly | 02:12 |
| amr | you liked it? :< | 02:12 |
| lcuk | i like it as an overview of whats possible yeah | 02:12 |
| amr | oh | 02:13 |
| lcuk | specific design doesnt bother me | 02:13 |
| amr | i didn't like that when loading a view to display comments, you had to press 'get' | 02:13 |
| lcuk | its people having the tools to be able to work it thats important | 02:13 |
| amr | surely thats silly, you want it to auto get | 02:13 |
| lcuk | thats design for ya - hackers arent designers, and designers arent hackers | 02:14 |
| amr | yeah | 02:14 |
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| amr | os software has loads of good programmers | 02:14 |
| amr | but not so many of the good designers :< | 02:14 |
| amr | or at least from what i've seen | 02:14 |
| lcuk | :) i am trying to show as much user content as possible | 02:14 |
| lcuk | it should be the users' stuff that fills the screen and things that relate to them ;) | 02:15 |
| lcuk | i can almost skimp on design :D | 02:15 |
| amr | yeah i'm all for that | 02:15 |
| lcuk | graffiti wall in playground now looks like it used to :) with proper datebars and im just sorting out multiselect | 02:16 |
| amr | i dont have a graffiti wall | 02:16 |
| amr | i dont think | 02:16 |
| amr | i installed from extras-devel | 02:16 |
| lcuk | you do - its just a list of sketches in yours | 02:16 |
| amr | oic | 02:16 |
| lcuk | technically, you have a LOT of things in there | 02:16 |
| amr | lol | 02:16 |
| amr | hms, i dont see any sketches | 02:16 |
| lcuk | have you drawn any.. | 02:17 |
| amr | top left i have a calendar, top right tags, below that photos, middle is a clock? | 02:17 |
| amr | oh duh | 02:17 |
| amr | aha | 02:17 |
| amr | im a moron. | 02:17 |
| amr | :< | 02:17 |
| lcuk | did you say you are moving from leeds soon | 02:18 |
| amr | well i'm at uni @ durham during term times | 02:18 |
| amr | rest of the time here | 02:18 |
| amr | and then leaving as soon as i graduate :p | 02:18 |
| lcuk | hah | 02:18 |
| lcuk | my mate went to leeds uni | 02:18 |
| amr | oh? | 02:19 |
| amr | i quite like the uni here | 02:19 |
| amr | but im glad i moved away | 02:19 |
| amr | oh damn, the graffiti wall is pretty swish | 02:20 |
| lcuk | heh, thats bare bones version | 02:20 |
| amr | if you need any testers ;) | 02:20 |
| lcuk | no grouping, i cant wait to put the final bit in it | 02:20 |
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| lcuk | amr, its constantly being built back up | 02:21 |
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| lcuk | the .git is public | 02:21 |
| amr | oh noice | 02:21 |
| lcuk | and i do all building on the device itself :) | 02:21 |
| lcuk | im just not releasing many packages, im loathed to need that one there tbh | 02:21 |
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| lcuk | proper release will be out soon :) | 02:22 |
| amr | :D | 02:23 |
| lcuk | #liqbase is where i mostly waffle and release stuff, and probably where the first user accounts will be given to | 02:23 |
| lcuk | ( http://liqbase.net/liqbase_net_preview.png ) | 02:23 |
| amr | oh helo :o | 02:24 |
| Luke-Jr | o hai thar amr | 02:25 |
| amr | hello der | 02:25 |
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| wazd | too bad that designers aren't hackers :( | 02:30 |
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| javispedro | dpkg - warning: ignoring request to remove --force-all which isn't installed. | 02:38 |
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| sarower | hello all, Good morning! | 06:56 |
| sarower | i am using this function to change the window. it can enlarge the window but can not make it smaller. | 06:58 |
| sarower | gtk_widget_set_size_request( (GtkWidget*) pluginWindow, width, height ); | 06:58 |
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| sarower | Ok gys....I have solved it by using, gtk_window_resize( GTK_WINDOW(pluginWindow), width, height); | 08:24 |
| sarower | Cheers | 08:24 |
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| Macer | wtf | 08:44 |
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| RST38h | "A man found naked wandering along the Nevada border has been tased and arrested despite his claiming to be a Terminator sent from the future." | 08:50 |
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| sarower | salara sob morche.... | 09:41 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: hah | 09:53 |
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| chx | hi. I am in grief, my Nokia N810 (almost brand new) it seems not to made it home with me. Anyone has one for sale? | 10:02 |
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| Stskeeps | check talk.maemo.org's buy/sell forum | 10:05 |
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| chx | on another note how far is the N900 | 10:19 |
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| Stskeeps | no clue | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | fremantle beta2 is out | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: i fixed my charger plug! :) | 10:20 |
| chx | and...? | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | chx: means we're getting a hell lot closer :P | 10:21 |
| chx | qwerty12_N810: what irc client you have on 810? | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | my bet is september | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | at nokia world | 10:21 |
| chx | Stskeeps: you mean, when fremantle gets released, then the N900 gets too? | 10:21 |
| chx | oh | 10:21 |
| chx | September. | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 10:21 |
| chx | can i live two months w/o a tablet/ | 10:21 |
| chx | big question | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | i lived three days without it and i hated it | 10:22 |
| Stskeeps | boring commute in the morning | 10:22 |
| chx | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density the end of this list is where it gets interesting and the only devices there with a more-than-3 inch screen are the Pandora and the Nokia tablets. | 10:24 |
| chx | oh and the Fujitsu Lifebook U820 but i bet you need to sell a kidney to afford that | 10:25 |
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| Stskeeps | hm, smartq isn't on there | 10:25 |
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| chx | what's that? | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26366 | 10:26 |
| Stskeeps | not as hard quality as a n810 or n800 obviously, but 800x480 and same screensize | 10:26 |
| Stskeeps | very hackable - we run Mer, and Ubuntu on it | 10:27 |
| chx | no keyboard? | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | no keyboard, but it has a lot of juice in otg | 10:27 |
| chx | for me, a keyboard is an absolute must | 10:27 |
| chx | the primary usage, i must say, is IM and SSH. | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | i'd wait for n900 then :P | 10:27 |
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| RST38h | reMoo | 10:36 |
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| Macer | i am honestly still at a loss on how opensourced products help companies | 10:38 |
| Macer | like sun for example | 10:38 |
| Macer | open office.. opensolaris.. | 10:38 |
| Macer | where are they expecting ot make their profits? | 10:38 |
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| RST38h | Sun? They do not. | 10:40 |
| RST38h | They are part of Oracle now | 10:40 |
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| RST38h | OpenSolaris is a last ditch effort to prevail over Linux, an unsuccessful effort for that | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | opensolaris isn't half bad really | 10:41 |
| RST38h | Sts: Won't change anything, even if it were given directly by Jesus | 10:42 |
| chx | Macer: this is easy | 10:42 |
| chx | Macer: open source (if done right) means a lot of people contribute and make that product better | 10:42 |
| chx | Macer: if you are a solution provider then you have a lot more to sell (services!) than a software. | 10:43 |
| RST38h | chx: So, how many people contribute to OpenOffice or OpenSolaris? | 10:43 |
| chx | I do not know but I know ppl translating OpenOffice | 10:43 |
| RST38h | chx: Exactly :) | 10:45 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:46 |
| Jaffa | Macer: IBM make a *lot* of money off their investments in Linux, Java, OpenOffice, ... | 10:46 |
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| chx | yeah there is that | 10:51 |
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| chx | OTHER solution providers might contribute to your product :p | 10:51 |
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| Macer | Stskeeps: opensolaris is great | 10:52 |
| Macer | jaffhow? :) | 10:53 |
| Macer | i'm just curious | 10:53 |
| Macer | Jaffa i meant | 10:53 |
| Macer | i don't understand how ibm makes money off openoffice | 10:53 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: i have osol inside my media center now, heh - it takes care of my 3x300 raidz, and then i run ubuntu with boxee around it :P | 10:53 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: lol.. i have opensolaris on my fileserver 8x1TB with areca hw raid ;) | 10:54 |
| Macer | it runs like an absolute dream | 10:54 |
| Jaffa | Macer: they invest in an open source product (OpenOffice), then add proprietary layers on top and sell it; with support contracts to their clients. | 10:54 |
| Macer | faster and better than anythi8gn i have put on it.. plus zfs ftw on large volumes | 10:54 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: awesome! :) | 10:54 |
| qwerty12_N810 | chx: /ctcp qwerty12_N810 VERSION | 10:54 |
| Macer | Jaffa: ok. now that was the answer i was looking for ;) | 10:54 |
| Macer | thank you because i honestly did not understand the concept | 10:55 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: if you ever mess up your plug, get a torx t4 and it's trivial | 10:55 |
| Macer | it just doesn't seem like that type of business model could sustain such a large company | 10:55 |
| Jaffa | Macer: Other stuff, like Java & Linux, save costs and increase homogeneous enterprise environments of their customers, so they can sell more hardware; consultancy etc. | 10:55 |
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| Jaffa | s/they/IBM/ | 10:55 |
| infobot | Jaffa meant: Macer: Other stuff, like Java & Linux, save costs and increase homogeneous enterprise environments of their customers, so IBM can sell more hardware; consultancy etc. | 10:55 |
| Macer | Jaffa: ok. i see :) thank you because i honestly did not see how opensource software was truly profitable | 10:56 |
| Macer | i mean especially when you havfe to sustain a large company. i don't know what exactly keeps sun in business | 10:56 |
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| Macer | er.. or oracle now i suppose | 10:56 |
| Jaffa | Macer: ...with lower costs as they don't need as many developers, consultants and support staff who know x86, PPC, ARM, z/Series, ... assembler or system specifics. More generalists on Java & Linux (even on the mainframes like z/Series) mean that IBM's costs are lower too | 10:56 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: it's powered by fusion power processes | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:57 |
| chx | qwerty12_N810: hm, xchat, interesting | 10:57 |
| Jaffa | Macer: Oracle are very similar. By supporting and contributing to Linux, they increase the adoption of a single OS they can deploy their enterprise software to. By supporting Java (the biggest commercial reason for the Sun acquisition), they - like IBM - can save money *and* support more enterprise platforms: thus increasing sales. | 10:57 |
| Macer | so... they make a *lot* of money by cutting costs? :) | 10:57 |
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| Macer | oracle seems to want to contribute to opensolaris don't they ? considering they now own sun? | 10:58 |
| Jaffa | The other big reason for Oracle buying Sun is the age old hate that Larry Ellison has of Microsoft. So, at first glance you'd expect Oracle (a middleware company) to dump OOo; however he's going to invest in it as a repeat of his mid-90s dreams of a low-cost, network-based competitor to Wintel (a la the NC) | 10:58 |
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| Macer | heh | 10:59 |
| Jaffa | Macer: IBM's evenue take iwas around $90bn a year whilst I was there. Saving a few costs can increase profits quite a lot with those kind of figures ;-) | 10:59 |
| Macer | he might want to turn his eyes towards googleOS then | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: it's going to suffer from the usual problem: perpherials | 10:59 |
| Macer | Jaffa: i i suppose you are right 100% ;) | 10:59 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: doubtful | 10:59 |
| Macer | isn't it just going to be a google browser based wm with a linux kernel? | 11:00 |
| Jaffa | Although as I said, most of the "new" money comes from people being interested in big, old mainframes again because they run standard Java & Linux, rather than proprietary old hardware. They can sell more of their services; and they can sell support contracts. | 11:00 |
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| Jaffa | Macer: That's what it's said to be so far. | 11:00 |
| Macer | i don't see why adding hardware would be a problem | 11:00 |
| Macer | linux for the most part has plenty of hardware support | 11:00 |
| Macer | and i'm sure anything that comes with the os will be supported | 11:00 |
| Macer | i think google is the only realistic competitor to ms' windows market | 11:01 |
| Macer | they have the name ;) | 11:01 |
| Macer | apple didn't have the same kind of name or style of reputation that google has | 11:01 |
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| Macer | which is why i think apple still has such a "small" share of the mainstream [PC] business | 11:01 |
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| Stskeeps | Macer: yeah, but hardware access for web applications is a nightmare | 11:02 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: depending on the type of access that will be used ;) | 11:02 |
| Macer | i think everybody is over-reading into the "web based application OS" | 11:02 |
| Macer | and it will be more a local run than everybody thinks | 11:02 |
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| Macer | they act like the os will literally run off the web.. when i am pretty sure that can not be t case. heh. not everybody has that fast of an internet connection... so they would alienate easter eu lol | 11:03 |
| * RST38h finds it amusing that people now associate Internet with the Web | 11:04 | |
| RST38h | Like http protocol is the only thing in existence | 11:04 |
| Macer | lol | 11:04 |
| RST38h | And they are actually trying to run EVERYTHING via http | 11:04 |
| Macer | lol | 11:05 |
| Macer | well.. i don't think taht is really going to be th case with google OS | 11:05 |
| Macer | if they can throw some 3D compositing and their logo around all over the place it might do very well | 11:05 |
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| Macer | it might do for arm based products what it did for htc with android | 11:05 |
| RST38h | Macer: Google OS is a Chrome browser running in a framebuffer on a vanilla Linux system | 11:05 |
| Macer | RST38h: so says you :) haha | 11:06 |
| RST38h | Macer: It will not be anything more than that | 11:06 |
| Macer | it's a year off and just an idea | 11:06 |
| RST38h | Macer: So say my crystal balls | 11:06 |
| Macer | it might not even be like that :) | 11:06 |
| RST38h | We have seen screenshots of the idea though | 11:06 |
| Macer | really? | 11:06 |
| RST38h | And so far it is completely in line with what my crystal balls say | 11:06 |
| Macer | hah | 11:06 |
| Macer | where are the screen shots? | 11:07 |
| Macer | i'd love to see them :) | 11:07 |
| RST38h | a moment | 11:07 |
| Jaffa | Macer: If you want to play with what a lightweight OS that runs lots of web apps feels like, see Jolicloud OS. Lots of Prism-based containers for popular websites. Not much in the way of local code. | 11:07 |
| Jaffa | Google Mail, with Gears for offlineyness, is a far better mail client than Modest. | 11:07 |
| Macer | Jaffa: maybe i will try it if i ever get my touch book that i pre-ordered ;) | 11:07 |
| Macer | Jaffa: i am sure there are quite a few web apps that work better than local ones | 11:08 |
| Macer | i sure in hell use gmail a lot more than i'd ever use outlook ;) | 11:08 |
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| Macer | or the macmail crap.. or (God help me) thunderbird | 11:08 |
| Macer | heh | 11:08 |
| Macer | although i run my own zimbra server also and think that half of anything i'd use was replaced by zimbra. the real challenge will be a good game market and the local graphics to apppeal to users | 11:09 |
| Macer | eye candy sells :) if it is fast and smooth and uses the hardware well it can easily challenge ms | 11:09 |
| RST38h | Macer: these have not yet been marked as fakes: http://digi.it.sohu.com/20050904/n240337911.shtml | 11:09 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Not difficult to be better than Modest. | 11:10 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: But apparently Tear has offline storage stuff enabled, so someone can theoretically start writing apps for it | 11:10 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Those are very very old, and probably bear no relationship to this new ChromeOS. | 11:10 |
| Macer | sure wish i could read the site :) | 11:11 |
| Macer | what language is this? | 11:11 |
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| Macer | RST38h: honestly | 11:11 |
| Macer | i like the way it looks | 11:12 |
| Macer | it would go nice on the touch book :) | 11:12 |
| Macer | if those are real pics | 11:12 |
| Macer | haha | 11:12 |
| Macer | ok.. have to do stuff .. bbl | 11:12 |
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| Macer | even if it was a web based compositing fb os with some sort of local storage runnign most things off the app or using gears.. | 11:12 |
| Macer | it has the potential to be good | 11:12 |
| Macer | and i really think | 11:14 |
| Macer | can give the failing ms a run for its money | 11:14 |
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| RST38h | Macer: But will you agree to surrender your ability to tinker with the system? | 11:15 |
| RST38h | Because this thing is apparently going to be just the browser running on top of the thin OS layer | 11:16 |
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| wazd | heya maemo | 11:37 |
| woglinde | hi wazd+ | 11:37 |
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| Stskeeps | 'lo jrocha, - good job on the HIG :) | 11:59 |
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| RST38h | heya wazd | 12:01 |
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| wazd | RST38h: heya | 12:15 |
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| wazd | I just finished reading HIG btw | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | mm? | 12:16 |
| wazd | Mobile applications must be able to adapt to all these displays. <- Fail, Clutter doesn't have tools to provide scalability (at least that's what Vlad says) | 12:17 |
| wazd | It uses absolute coordinates only | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | blog piece? :P either way they're getting rid of clutter | 12:17 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: Oh that make sense :D | 12:18 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: looks like maemo team are real fans of additional useless work :) | 12:18 |
| Jaffa | wazd: And the requirement just means that Clutter-based apps have to do their own co-ord scaling based on viewport width/height | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: nah, i think it's about the bloody best idea they've had for a while to go for Qt :P | 12:18 |
| wazd | Jaffa: Vlad told me that you can't adjust item size or coordinate in % in Clutter | 12:20 |
| wazd | Jaffa: GTK widgets only | 12:20 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: Yes, you pass absolute co-ords to Clutter, but you work out what your absolute co-ords are as a %ge of the width/height | 12:22 |
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| lbt | I missed the clutter chat URL if it was posted... | 12:25 |
| wazd | http://i019.radikal.ru/0907/4c/679f3fbd79f8.jpg <- maemo.org on Pre :) | 12:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | My eyes! | 12:27 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: well, it zooms quite nice :) | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: that's tiny.. | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:28 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I was referring to maemo.org being on a Palm device, but now that you come to mention it... :P | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | a Mer proof of concept on a Pre would be funny though :P | 12:29 |
| wazd | I like how browser address bar works | 12:30 |
| wazd | it shows you the title when not active, and when you click it - it shows url | 12:30 |
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| RST38h | wazd: looks tiny | 12:33 |
| RST38h | Also, why waste perfectly good screen corners? :) | 12:33 |
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| wazd | RST38h: well, all ui is rounded so it looks nice :) | 12:36 |
| wazd | looks like I'm unable to save jpg from the webpage | 12:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Yay, I has drag lock setting that saves in hildon-desktop | 12:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | *gets saved | 12:37 |
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| Stskeeps | andre__: i think it's sometimes hard for people to realize maemo software doesn't follow maemo hardware always.. as in, Maemo has a bug fixed, because it's fixed in 5.0, - doesn't mean your device you found it on will get that fix | 12:57 |
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| andre__ | yeah. i'm wondering whether to change my stock answer to make that more clear... | 12:59 |
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| Jaffa | andre__: As Mer approaches 1.0, it might be worth also saying "this is a WONTFIX for Diablo, but the Fremantle fix may be picked up by Mer" (not relevant for apps' bugs tho) | 13:22 |
| lcuk | "Fixed in frem^W Mer|Harmattan" | 13:23 |
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| Stskeeps | andre__: in the future it might be "fixed in package X, version Y" | 13:24 |
| lcuk | jaffa, i noticed the scaling thing with clutter myself over xmas | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | how the heck the person gets that would be community SSU, Mer, Fremantle, or whatever :P | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | (for open source packages) | 13:25 |
| andre__ | :-) | 13:25 |
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| Stskeeps | andre__: if there was more community involvement in harmattan, what are the 3 things you'd like to see changed in development method of Harmattan regarding your work as bugmaster? | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | regarding = with your work as bugmaster as background :P | 13:27 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, im betting, internet controlled lasers at each workstation to uphold and enforce the criteria for good bug reports | 13:29 |
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| andre__ | Stskeeps, earlier publishing of API specs and willingness to discuss them; better documentation; more devs in maemo bugzilla commenting and reviewing patches? :-) | 13:32 |
| andre__ | but lcuk's proposals sound also nice | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: ta - i'm collecting some stuff for my summit talk so :P | 13:33 |
| * Meizirkki sent email to Michael Fray asking if he has time to document his method if compiling android against Ubuntu's libc.. | 13:33 | |
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| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: good call | 13:34 |
| Meizirkki | s/if/of | 13:34 |
| Meizirkki | his email was easy to find, 3rd result in google search for "Michael Fray canonical" | 13:35 |
| Meizirkki | :P | 13:35 |
| Meizirkki | i wonder if Canonical is planning to integrate parts of android in ubuntu somehow.. | 13:35 |
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| Stskeeps | i still think maemo's power is that it's toolkit agnostic | 13:37 |
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| Stskeeps | if i wanted to run an android framework app, i could potentially | 13:38 |
| lbt | Hmm, should andre_ add something along the lines that Mer would be in a better position to fix these bugs if more people contributed to getting Mer going? | 13:38 |
| andre__ | well, i want to keep it short. people can still click the link. | 13:38 |
| lbt | :D | 13:38 |
| javispedro | "You are free to fix this bug by yourself" as a stock response should be fine too ;) | 13:38 |
| andre__ | the longer the text the less it is read | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | "This is open source, you are free to fix this bug by yourself or employ others to do so" | 13:39 |
| lbt | javispedro: yeah - that's probably how it'd come off - and not go down too well | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 13:39 |
| VDVsx | just tried palm sdk, definitely maemo has the worst dev tools between the other three unix based mobile OS's :P | 13:40 |
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| Stskeeps | VDVsx: yeah, but not as bad as symbian? ;) | 13:40 |
| javispedro | VDVsx, pre, android, and ? | 13:40 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, ouch, thanks god :P | 13:41 |
| javispedro | sorry, you said "unix" :D | 13:41 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: I don't want to try the Pre's one. Brief play with iPhone, and more in depth with Android just gets me angry and frustrated with Maemo | 13:41 |
| javispedro | so that'l make #3 the iphone ? | 13:41 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, yes :) | 13:41 |
| javispedro | so what. which is the only one which allows you to recompile a debian package "as is" and at least see it work | 13:42 |
| javispedro | priceless :D | 13:43 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, android is the more friendly so far, IMO, didn't tried the eclipse integration on the pre yet | 13:43 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: Mer? :P | 13:43 |
| javispedro | this remembers me, Stskeeps, did Mer decide to follow Maemo and switch to Qt? | 13:44 |
| lbt | they followed us | 13:44 |
| javispedro | lol | 13:44 |
| VDVsx | mer chroot is much better that the crappy SB :P | 13:44 |
| lbt | heh | 13:45 |
| lbt | I just replied to developer list... | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: i'm not a gtk fan, personally. we're toolkit agnostic so qt and gtk will co-exist. but we'll probably begin to move more stuff to qt. | 13:45 |
| amr | surely the fact you can recompile a debian package "as is" is moot | 13:46 |
| amr | you want apps developed specifically for this os | 13:46 |
| lbt | VDVsx: just apt-get install emacs and ran gud.... | 13:46 |
| amr | it's a plus if you want to be a cool nerd, but the general user doesn't give a toss | 13:47 |
| javispedro | amr: partly true | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | amr: do you want to spend ages fitting libwhatever to scratchbox compilation?, because your mobile application would benefit from it? | 13:47 |
| VDVsx | lbt, well, is also a option, the "emacs OS" is powerful :P | 13:47 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, with the palm and iphone sdk can you recompile the kernel? | 13:47 |
| javispedro | the general user gives a toss if he can't run e.g. "curse of monkey island" for that reason | 13:47 |
| lcuk | or are they for fruity apps only? | 13:47 |
| amr | Stskeeps, as i don't develop for maemo i don't care | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | amr: i agree that we want to encourage mobile factor development, but we don't need to limit people too much :P | 13:48 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, iphone is closed source, for palm you can :) | 13:48 |
| lcuk | with the palm sdk? | 13:48 |
| amr | i don't really see it as limiting | 13:48 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, off course no | 13:48 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, as a app developer you have intrested in compile a kernel ? | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | amr: as in, it's much easier when we can just pick and choose what libraries we want to depend on, and then just spend time changing our View to mobile form factor, and add in concerns for mobile usage | 13:49 |
| lcuk | well thats what the sdk is for | 13:49 |
| lcuk | i understand entirely tho | 13:49 |
| lcuk | as a python dev yourself, why do you need an sdk? | 13:49 |
| lcuk | cant you just use favorite text editor and run without any sdk | 13:49 |
| amr | Stskeeps, i guess | 13:49 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps, (in reply to Mer being toolkit agnostic) nice :) | 13:49 |
| lcuk | surely favorite editor + ssh == much better than having to setup anything serious | 13:50 |
| javispedro | I think Qt is way easier to develop for; everytime I think Gtk I think boilerplate | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | amr: and that's what we're attempting with mer. sure, we're based on ubuntu, and sure, it's cool to be able to install emacs, - but what's most cool for me is the ability to develop a mobile application just as easily as i develop a desktop app | 13:50 |
| lcuk | a couple of script files to do the grunt work and you could have a really slick OS independent devkit | 13:50 |
| javispedro | but there's still lots of apps, even lots of lightweight toolkits (think swt) which still target Gtk | 13:50 |
| lcuk | javispedro, qt is just as much boilerplate | 13:50 |
| lcuk | tho you cant as easily see what the plating is because its abstracted down 17 levels ;) | 13:51 |
| javispedro | lcuk: but machine-generated boilerplate (which btw Vala was somewhat trying to fix) | 13:51 |
| lcuk | no, vala was generating the boilerplate for you lol | 13:51 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, yes, I can, but I'm not only a python dev, and I also like a full integrated system, sorry but I'm not a emacs geek :P | 13:51 |
| lcuk | thats not fixing it, thats just making it a bit easier to reproduce and work with | 13:51 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, then a proper sdk should allow rebuilding the full OS | 13:52 |
| lcuk | which of all the unix os's ONLY maemo can i think ;) | 13:52 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: Any boilerplate is bad | 13:52 |
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| lcuk | *in what you said up there | 13:52 |
| javispedro | I don't think machine-generated boilerplate is bad (unless you mean this is a semantic contradiction) | 13:53 |
| javispedro | think: compiler generators | 13:53 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Machine generated ones are especially bad because once you change a few things there the machine can no longer regenerate them | 13:53 |
| lcuk | RST38h, thats been the same since year . | 13:53 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Yes, unfortunately | 13:53 |
| lcuk | nothing you can do | 13:54 |
| RST38h | Actually, Microsoft solved it | 13:54 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, this isn't a argument for +90% of the app developers around, if you want more app in your system, you've to provide proper developing tools, this is one of the big problems in maemo, IMO | 13:54 |
| Jaffa | If it's boilerplate, it should be runtime only. | 13:54 |
| RST38h | So, it is not like theres is nothing you can do | 13:54 |
| RST38h | Jaffa <-- essentially correct | 13:54 |
| Jaffa | If it's machine generated source code as a lightweight, understandable starting point; that's fine. | 13:54 |
| lcuk | MS havent solved boiler plate, they abstracted it and moved it into a different file | 13:54 |
| lcuk | the .not solution sucks balls | 13:54 |
| javispedro | lcuk: which I hate | 13:54 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: usually never stays this way :) | 13:54 |
| Jaffa | If it's machine generated boilerplate source code to prevent the developer having to write it manually: very very bad. | 13:54 |
| javispedro | cause that means you no longer understand what your program is doing | 13:55 |
| RST38h | lcuk: They moved it to resource files which is a solution as far as I care | 13:55 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Of course, this does not mean I LIKE using Win32 | 13:55 |
| javispedro | but I like what qt's moc does | 13:55 |
| javispedro | it: allows you to forget about the whole meta object system if you like, but allows you to read about it if you want | 13:56 |
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| lcuk | VDVsx, ok, so you want a lightweight IDE that can create funfilled desktop apps with lots of support | 13:56 |
| * lcuk goes back to PYTHON and the fact you technically dont need any sdk cos its already there | 13:56 | |
| lcuk | if you want more - with maemo you can have it - but its more complex | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: are there any good Vala IDE targetting Gtk, with a UI designer? | 13:57 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, I don't want I can deal with the current tools, but other can't :P | 13:57 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, give a try to the android sdk and you will see what I'm talking about | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: ++ on applets_locked | 13:59 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, i have my own sdk that i create my own funky stuff in | 13:59 |
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| VDVsx | lcuk, I know :P | 13:59 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: No & Glade :-( | 13:59 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: GConf rocks | 13:59 |
| lcuk | i *KNOW* the problems with complex init, and its a major bugbear to me | 13:59 |
| lcuk | jaffa, really theres no ide for vala yet? | 14:00 |
| * Jaffa doesn't think Vala's the future for Maemo anymore (with the Qt change) | 14:00 | |
| lcuk | cant something like codeblocks contain language defs | 14:00 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: There's Valable which I hack on (Eclipse plugin). Monodevelop. ValaIDE. None of them would count as "good" (but then I'm used to JDT in Eclipse) | 14:00 |
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| lcuk | ahhh | 14:01 |
| lbt | Jaffa I'd love some help getting a Mer SDK with Qt and stuff working | 14:01 |
| * lcuk longs for cygnuseditor for amiga | 14:01 | |
| lbt | if you have seen the light dimming for vala | 14:01 |
| lcuk | the FASTEST amiga editor in the world (had super blitting that reminds me of liqbase ;)) | 14:01 |
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| woglinde | qtcreator and designer rockz | 14:01 |
| lbt | yes... | 14:02 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, as a counter point, do you remember the issues that you had with autotools/deb stuff, a proper sdk will avoid that headache ;) | 14:02 |
| lcuk | woglinde, but what if you want QT stuff thats *NOT* cross platform | 14:02 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: i assume you're on hiatus from mer and such to concentrate on college stuff, so i'll add a task for someone to add that patch to h-d git :) (probably me) | 14:02 |
| lcuk | supponsing i wanted to put liqbase into qt | 14:02 |
| lcuk | but design using the windows editor | 14:02 |
| woglinde | lcuk haeh???? | 14:02 |
| woglinde | cross stuff works | 14:02 |
| woglinde | has nothing to do with designer | 14:03 |
| woglinde | only some ifdefs for windows and macos | 14:03 |
| lcuk | woglinde, liqbase does not run in windows | 14:03 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: I would have done it but then I heard "git" :) | 14:03 |
| lcuk | so if (when?) i add a wrapper and extension classes | 14:03 |
| lcuk | it will blow chunks | 14:03 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, you REALLY dont want to know my truthful solution to that problem | 14:04 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: ah, it's fairly nice actually when you start using it a bit :) | 14:04 |
| lcuk | i was about a gnats whisp away from using the liqbase.net webservice to allow updates and installs and stuff | 14:04 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, see, I have a point :P | 14:05 |
| lcuk | i only had a problem with actually doing it the debian way which maemo on device tools cannot actually do | 14:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: I must learn how to use it then :). Maybe I'll set up a local repo full of shit... :P | 14:05 |
| lcuk | no VDVsx no point | 14:05 |
| javispedro | my maemo on-device tools ARE debian | 14:05 |
| lcuk | if i i had used the sdk i wouldnt have batted an eyelid | 14:05 |
| lcuk | i was doing it backwards | 14:05 |
| lcuk | javispedro, yes :) | 14:05 |
| lcuk | mer is kicking ass with that | 14:05 |
| VDVsx | ~chase lcuk | 14:06 |
| * infobot chases lcuk | 14:06 | |
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| * javispedro is still using vainilla debian lenny | 14:06 | |
| * javispedro wants to try using mer chroot some day ;) | 14:06 | |
| woglinde | lcuk ah okay | 14:07 |
| lcuk | ~sickballs VDVsx | 14:07 |
| lcuk | ;) | 14:07 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, infobot is old and started to forget things :P | 14:08 |
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| * javispedro javispedro believes maemo's sdk is best cause there isn't any, and you can build the perfect one yourself | 14:08 | |
| javispedro | (which is btw what I believe lcuk's trying to tell us) | 14:09 |
| javispedro | let it be dpkg-cross, scratchbox1, sb2, on-device, whatever | 14:09 |
| javispedro | or a combination of any of these | 14:10 |
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| javispedro | and then distribute it as vmware so that "the general user" can use it | 14:11 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, when you use your on-device environment, you don't have problems with the ssh connection ? mine is always going idle/dropped after a while without activity | 14:11 |
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| amr | same with me, VDVsx | 14:14 |
| lbt | javispedro: I use vanilla lenny | 14:14 |
| lbt | javispedro: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build | 14:14 |
| lbt | chroot in minutes... | 14:15 |
| lbt | there's a cut'n'paste walkthrough here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build/Application_Building | 14:15 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: I'll add it to my ever growing queue. | 14:16 |
| Jaffa | ;-) | 14:16 |
| javispedro | didn't like OBS so far | 14:16 |
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| javispedro | tries to do a lot of things. I won't say it does all of them badly, but just that I do not want it to do most of them | 14:17 |
| javispedro | also, seems webby 2.0 | 14:17 |
| * javispedro is a scratchbox1 lover | 14:18 | |
| lbt | that's a good idea... I suggest you unshift it | 14:18 |
| sampppa | hello | 14:19 |
| lbt | javispedro: examples? | 14:19 |
| sampppa | how is it possible to change background colour of HildonPannableArea? | 14:19 |
| javispedro | lbt: considering I'm going to build a debian/rpm package for a start | 14:19 |
| lbt | well.... you are. | 14:20 |
| lbt | OBS does nothing else. Just builds packages. ? | 14:20 |
| javispedro | then you're thinking of it as a autobuilder replacement | 14:20 |
| javispedro | not as a sb1 replacement | 14:20 |
| lbt | ah | 14:21 |
| lbt | both | 14:21 |
| lbt | the way it builds packages is to create a chroot in qemu | 14:21 |
| lbt | so I create a dummy package called SDK | 14:21 |
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| lbt | it has a build-depends of all kinds of crap | 14:22 |
| lbt | like aptitude and sdk-config | 14:22 |
| javispedro | so, can you bootup the qemu chroot, the manually hack around include files to debug why your package is not building | 14:22 |
| lbt | which installs useful stuff into the chroot | 14:22 |
| lbt | yes | 14:22 |
| lbt | a 'normal' build has a 'pure' chroot | 14:22 |
| lbt | which is cool and elegant | 14:22 |
| lbt | and useless | 14:22 |
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| lbt | you can hack in it | 14:22 |
| lbt | but not much else | 14:23 |
| lbt | so I created a general purpose chroot | 14:23 |
| lbt | which, most critically, has a network | 14:23 |
| lbt | (build chroot doesn't) | 14:23 |
| lbt | then you can install all kinds of things | 14:23 |
| javispedro | and then you'll get something similar to sb1 ;) | 14:24 |
| lbt | yes | 14:24 |
| lbt | gosh, never thought about that ;) | 14:24 |
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| javispedro | I assume it'll be sb1 "done right" cause I don't consider sb2 being "sb1 done right" | 14:24 |
| lbt | correct | 14:24 |
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| lbt | we install modified 586 packages into the chroot | 14:25 |
| lbt | offset into /lib-x86 | 14:25 |
| lbt | then symlink to / | 14:25 |
| javispedro | (for a start sb2 likes to rebuild some dont-know-whats-for package list which takes half an hour before EACH dpkg-buildpackage) | 14:25 |
| lbt | so /bin/bash -> /lib-x86/bin/bash | 14:25 |
| lbt | dpkg-buildpackage -nc ? | 14:26 |
| lbt | more details here : http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Cross_Build | 14:26 |
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| lbt | nb... I am writing this stuff as we speak | 14:26 |
| lbt | modified glibc is compiling | 14:27 |
| lbt | I've written the cross-packager | 14:27 |
| javispedro | lbt, not the source package. I think it's related to some weird emulator configuration | 14:27 |
| lbt | and I have a cross-packaged bash | 14:27 |
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| javispedro | nice job lbt | 14:27 |
| lbt | javispedro: I confess to being so caught up in Mer that I don't have maemo sdk2 | 14:27 |
| lbt | don't tell anyone at Nokia ;) | 14:27 |
| lbt | I'm running all the fremantle code in Mer | 14:28 |
| lbt | now all I need is a cross-packaged set of i586 .so otherwise bash is u/s | 14:28 |
| javispedro | I just hope someday I can just say "sb3-conf switch_tool /usr/bin/java native" ;) | 14:28 |
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| lbt | bbiab | 14:30 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, winscp has a setting to ping after n seconds or something - keep alives, been in place for many systems (my ftp stuff uses em too) | 14:30 |
| lcuk | tho actually looking mine arent configured and ive never needed em | 14:31 |
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| VDVsx | lcuk, humm, have to find a similar settting/tool for linux :) | 14:32 |
| lcuk | windscp also cures connection breaks, i can be transfering a file, reboot the tablet and continue transfering | 14:32 |
| lcuk | once back up | 14:32 |
| lcuk | hey sampppa \o | 14:33 |
| lcuk | what happens if you change the background color as you would on a panel | 14:33 |
| lcuk | or is that a gtk styleism itself | 14:33 |
| lcuk | (i could never even change the button background colorin my remote control) | 14:34 |
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| sampppa | lcuk: i dont know but it does not change, i use rc file | 14:37 |
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| Macer | made it 8 days so far without smoking | 14:42 |
| Macer | :-) | 14:42 |
| lcuk | sampppa, https://git.maemo.org/projects/hildon/gitweb?p=hildon;a=blob;f=hildon/hildon-pannable-area.c;h=21c140221b3b77f471cf27ddd0cd5843c00a5008;hb=47de2971f36db26f249d75ccfe772d230248223d#l1064 | 14:46 |
| lcuk | i can see 1 reference to setting the background | 14:46 |
| lcuk | (the others are scrollbars) | 14:46 |
| lcuk | its only done in the realize handler/constructor? | 14:47 |
| sampppa | hmm | 14:48 |
| lcuk | perhaps if you force your code to do same, or mess with the style and refresh, it might work | 14:48 |
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| lcuk | yerga, if you are around, do you have any idea how sampppa can set the background color? | 14:49 |
| lcuk | Macer, congratulations | 14:50 |
| * lcuk has a celebrationary cig for you! | 14:50 | |
| sampppa | :) | 14:50 |
| lcuk | sampppa, might be an idea to post some of this on ML (if yerga isnt awake lol) | 14:51 |
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| lcuk | what other GTK states are there? | 14:51 |
| lcuk | ie this call: | 14:51 |
| lcuk | gtk_style_set_background (widget->style, widget->window, GTK_STATE_NORMAL); | 14:51 |
| lcuk | what happens if you set the state of the pannable to something else (disabled or somethiing) | 14:52 |
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| lcuk | does the background change as expected with other widgets? | 14:52 |
| lcuk | oooh sampppa theres someone else that might know | 14:52 |
| * lcuk waves @ danielwilms and bets he craps himself and wonders what hes stumbled into ;) | 14:53 | |
| sampppa | :D | 14:53 |
| Jaffa | lo danielwilms | 14:53 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Don't worry: he's dealt with sarower's shit... | 14:53 |
| sampppa | for example with this example: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/tutorial/examples/hildon-pannable-area-example.c how to change bg to black etc ? | 14:53 |
| lcuk | dare i ask who sarower is | 14:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | search the IRC logs, you'll realise who... | 14:56 |
| lcuk | i cant search the logs im on vnc | 14:56 |
| lcuk | danielwilms, inside hildonpannable, it appears as though its not listening to sampppa's instructions about changing the background color and nothing he has tried works. any ideas about how to solve his problem :D ? | 14:56 |
| lcuk | he tried asking it nicely, | 14:57 |
| lcuk | then raised his voice, and threatened it with dunking in a river | 14:57 |
| lcuk | and he even told it he would build it in the bora sdk if it didnt behave | 14:57 |
| lcuk | but to no avail :( | 14:57 |
| qwerty12_N810 | s/bora sdk/on device/ | 14:58 |
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| lcuk | nahhh liqbase does that quite well (as long as i dont want to move out) | 14:58 |
| lcuk | lets get worse: on device in a win ce .net env ;) | 14:58 |
| sampppa | lol :) | 14:59 |
| sampppa | maybe im doing something wrong here, i gotta eat somehting :) | 14:59 |
| yerga | generally the widgets follow the theme colors | 15:00 |
| yerga | the only solution is using rc files | 15:00 |
| yerga | I think there are some applications using it | 15:01 |
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| sampppa | yerga: on the example i linked, i can change the bg colour of hildonstackablewindow | 15:02 |
| sampppa | but when i add that hildonpannablea area it does not change, and if i set own style for hildonpannablearea it doesnt change either | 15:02 |
| sampppa | with rc file | 15:03 |
| yerga | mmm weird | 15:03 |
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| yerga | are you going to use buttons in the pannable? | 15:03 |
| yerga | or a treeview? | 15:03 |
| sampppa | for example buttons | 15:03 |
| danielwilms | lcuk believe it or not but I'm fighting right now with the same thing :D | 15:05 |
| lcuk | team maemo all stars - COMBINE YOUR FORCES! | 15:06 |
| danielwilms | haha | 15:06 |
| javispedro | ake off every 'ZIG'!! For great justice. | 15:06 |
| lcuk | danielwilms, are you comin to the summit? | 15:07 |
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| danielwilms | lcuk: I guess so...most likely I will | 15:07 |
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| danielwilms | lcuk what about you?!= | 15:11 |
| lcuk | i hope to be there, i have submitted a bit of a proposal | 15:12 |
| lcuk | after my overview last year went down so well, it will be good to give a 1year later update | 15:12 |
| lcuk | with all the nice stuff ive got lined up :) | 15:12 |
| * lcuk hopes it all works well together | 15:13 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | Planning to bring yer Apple keyboard? | 15:14 |
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| lcuk | no | 15:14 |
| qwerty12_N810 | hehe | 15:14 |
| lcuk | i have my laptop nowadays ;) | 15:14 |
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| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, i will have to enable adhoc again tho to do it properly ;) | 15:15 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Lies, just find a power socket | 15:16 |
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| lcuk | o_O and plug in a router? | 15:16 |
| lcuk | thats an idea | 15:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Or just use whatever network is there. | 15:26 |
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| lcuk | GeneralAntilles its great assuming i can use whatever network is there, but if the network isnt stable | 15:44 |
| lcuk | i oculd do with some kind of always on cellular data stream to let me be untethered :) | 15:45 |
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| Meizirkki | qwerty12_N810, pookee | 15:48 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Meizirkki: pong | 15:48 |
| Meizirkki | can you help me with powerlanch? i have made a simple script to start powerlaunch, but i fail to add it in powerlaunch sources | 15:49 |
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| Meizirkki | i mean, i have tried to put @cp -f <script> ${DESTDIR}/etc/start-hildon.d/ and such in Makefile | 15:50 |
| Meizirkki | but it doesn't appear to be there. | 15:50 |
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| Meizirkki | and if i add it to rules, it breaks at build | 15:50 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Meizirkki: Where is your sources? TBH, I'd just do it from rules | 15:50 |
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| Meizirkki | https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=powerlaunch&project=Maemo%3AMer%3ADevel%3AUI | 15:51 |
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| Meizirkki | it fail to build https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log?arch=armv5el&package=powerlaunch&project=Maemo%3AMer%3ADevel%3AUI&repository=MerDevel_Ubuntu_9.04 | 15:52 |
| Meizirkki | +s | 15:52 |
| qwerty12_N810 | k, looking | 15:52 |
| Meizirkki | thanks | 15:52 |
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| Meizirkki | i think i guess what's wrong there now.. | 15:55 |
| Meizirkki | qwerty12_N810, i'll try once more, if it still fails, i'll ask for help again :) | 15:56 |
| qwerty12_N810 | :) | 15:56 |
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| qwerty12_N810_ | Meizirkki: Hmm, you could just add "MER_STARTUP_ITEM /etc/start-hildon.d" to debian/install and remove that mkdir & cp combo in rules | 16:04 |
| Meizirkki | okay thanks, is the mkdir needed btw? | 16:05 |
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| qwerty12_N810_ | yes, cp won't copy to a non-existing dir | 16:06 |
| Meizirkki | so i leave mkdir in rules? | 16:06 |
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| qwerty12_N810_ | No, I said remove them | 16:06 |
| Meizirkki | qwerty12_N810_, if i use the debian/install, is the mkdir still needed in rules? | 16:08 |
| qwerty12_N810_ | nope | 16:08 |
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| Meizirkki | k | 16:12 |
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| Meizirkki | thanks a lot qwerty12_N810_ :) | 16:14 |
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| RST38h | "In response to rumors circulating the internet on sites such as FoxNews.com, FastCompany.com and CNET News about a "flesh eating" robot project, Cyclone Power Technologies Inc. (Pink Sheets:CYPW) and Robotic Technology Inc. (RTI) would like to set the record straight: This robot is strictly vegetarian." | 16:18 |
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| fiferboy_ | lbt: ping? | 16:33 |
| lbt | hi | 16:33 |
| fiferboy_ | Hi. In finger scroll vel is the current velocity and vel1 is the previous, correct? | 16:34 |
| lbt | IIRC | 16:36 |
| lbt | I think that was to work around a perceived bug | 16:36 |
| lbt | when I got multiple events with no delta | 16:36 |
| lbt | or something | 16:36 |
| fiferboy_ | http://pastebin.com/m2545ec27 | 16:37 |
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| fiferboy_ | I think the issue is when last_event_time is 0 (so vel and vel1 are 0) and another event doesn't come in. | 16:37 |
| fiferboy_ | There is no velocity, so no kinetic scrolling, even though there was motion to set off a manual scroll | 16:38 |
| lbt | mmm | 16:38 |
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| fiferboy_ | This only happens the first time, when last_event_time is still 0, which is why I thought it was a focus problem | 16:38 |
| lbt | If there is a manual scroll then it sets vel | 16:38 |
| lbt | but if there are only 2 events then vel1 = 0 | 16:39 |
| lbt | again, IIRC | 16:39 |
| fiferboy_ | So, if the first scroll is a really fast short one, vel is 0 | 16:39 |
| fiferboy_ | If the first scroll is long enough, vel gets set fine and everything is good | 16:39 |
| lbt | possibly | 16:40 |
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| lbt | let me kick glibc and then load the code | 16:40 |
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| fiferboy | Ok | 16:40 |
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| VDVsx | nokia start selling symbian 'pieces': http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1329543 | 16:52 |
| lbt | fiferboy: http://pastebin.com/m2545ec27 | 16:53 |
| lbt | I think | 16:53 |
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| lbt | need to check if last is set | 16:54 |
| fiferboy | Last initialized to (0,0) | 16:54 |
| fiferboy | I don't see any change in that pastebin, BTW | 16:54 |
| lbt | oops http://pastebin.com/d6f57634f | 16:56 |
| lbt | last should be set to start way back in | 16:56 |
| lbt | if (scrollState == NotScrolling) { | 16:56 |
| lbt | line 1549 : last = start; // record the last point touched for vel calc | 16:57 |
| lbt | sets last to be the initial touch point | 16:57 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: Interesting. What was the source for that meme about Maemo being for high-end mobile devices? | 16:57 |
| fiferboy | lbt: I tried that modification already and had the same issue (at least I think it was that mod, I'll try it again) | 16:57 |
| GAN800 | Jaffa, some Nokia VP in the AP a few months ago. | 16:59 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, I think that was quoted from a speech of one of the nokia's VP's, don't really remeber but I also read that | 16:59 |
| GAN800 | A comment about Linux becoming an option in the high-end phones. | 16:59 |
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| Jaffa | Ah yes, I vaguely remember. | 17:00 |
| * Jaffa wonders how Engadget will react to Rover; given the anti-Maemo stance of their last article (on the Chinese device) | 17:00 | |
| fiferboy | lbt: Strange, I don't have that last = start line. In qabstractscrollarea.cpp? | 17:01 |
| lbt | :D | 17:01 |
| lbt | that's where it *should* go | 17:01 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, engadget is anti-nokia :P | 17:01 |
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| lbt | line 1549 : + last = start; // record the last point touched for vel calc | 17:01 |
| lbt | http://pastebin.com/d75b84535 | 17:02 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: I'm noticing a great variation in tone depending on the author. Although I don't discount institutional bias (although, for consumers the Maemo devices have been fairly lacking for a while ;-)) | 17:02 |
| fiferboy | Ah! | 17:02 |
| lbt | I'm not keen on vel/vel1 either | 17:02 |
| fiferboy | lbt: I'm currently compiling this: http://pastebin.com/m50f34db5 | 17:02 |
| lbt | I'd like to try without having both | 17:02 |
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| fiferboy | It should be the same thing, just a little messier | 17:02 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, e.g, catch the dif's :) : http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/07/16/nokia-cuts-market-share-targets-as-q2-profits-plummet/ and http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_q2_financial_report_is_out_shows_improvement_over_q1-news-1023.php | 17:03 |
| VDVsx | same numbers dif interpertations :) | 17:04 |
| lbt | yep | 17:04 |
| * timeless_mbp puzzles | 17:04 | |
| timeless_mbp | people are actually fixing bugs in bugs.maemo.org | 17:04 |
| timeless_mbp | did anyone else notice that? :) | 17:04 |
| Stskeeps | scares me too | 17:04 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: URL or it isn't happening | 17:04 |
| lbt | mgrs on holiday? | 17:05 |
| Jaffa | Presumably you're surprised cos they're in Maemo Devices' products (rather than Mer, etc) | 17:05 |
| lcuk | "fixed in fre ^W harma ^W Diablo??" :D | 17:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&resolution=FIXED&chfieldto=Now&field0-0-0=resolution&type0-0-0=changedafter&value0-0-0=7%2F15%2F2009 | 17:06 |
| timeless_mbp | f you sort by bugid, it's the last bunch or so | 17:07 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Now you're just showing off your bugzilla-fu ;-p | 17:07 |
| timeless_mbp | https://www.squarefree.com/bookmarklets/mozilla.html | 17:07 |
| timeless_mbp | has "shorten bug query" | 17:07 |
| timeless_mbp | which is something everyone needs | 17:07 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, if you are in the same building as danielwilms and you see him, tip your hat and wish him a pleasant weekend from me :) | 17:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: hrm, i'd have to vpn in, and it's 5pm | 17:08 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd rather go home | 17:08 |
| lcuk | yeah he just left lol | 17:08 |
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| Jaffa | Oooh, PyMaemo bugs being fixed. I have high hopes for #4782 | 17:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: anyway, does the query make sense/ | 17:09 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: yup | 17:09 |
| timeless_mbp | for people too lazy to click "edit this query", https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?query_format=advanced&resolution=FIXED&chfieldto=Now&field0-0-0=resolution&type0-0-0=changedafter&value0-0-0=7%2F15%2F2009 | 17:09 |
| timeless_mbp | and for people who want to know a bit more about queries: https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?help=1&format=advanced | 17:10 |
| timeless_mbp | (that's for people too lazy to click "Give me some help") | 17:10 |
| timeless_mbp | for people curious about why i'm filing bugs in BlueZ,.... | 17:11 |
| timeless_mbp | it's mostly because i can | 17:11 |
| timeless_mbp | they seemed open to bug filing and willing to fix them :) | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | it's a shame that's not a big thing in open source projects to be like that | 17:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyway | 17:14 |
| timeless_mbp | if someone can figure out which other projects are open to bugs | 17:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'll gladly file a handful | 17:15 |
| timeless_mbp | it's trivial for me | 17:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i only have to start my vpn, which is just a minute of pain | 17:15 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: I had to set vel1 = vel in the if(last_ev_time) statement, because the MouseMove event in ManualScroll needs vel1 to be non-zero | 17:24 |
| fiferboy | It is now working for the specific case I found, and it doesn't seem to break scrolling in any other case | 17:24 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, I remembered something about our previous talk topic, and here's the article: http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssITServicesConsulting/idUSL251396920081202 | 17:26 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: ta muchly | 17:27 |
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| lbt | fiferboy: OK | 17:28 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: Scratch that, I have broken overshoot stabilise at some point... | 17:29 |
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| VDVsx | for smokers: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/07/17/cigarette-lighter-phone-could-light-up-your-death-sticks-life/ :P | 17:30 |
| GAN800 | I'd hate to see that go off in somebody's pocket. | 17:31 |
| GAN800 | Or think of the viruses. | 17:31 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | I'd like to see someone trying to take that onto a plane | 17:31 |
| GAN800 | It would make a pretty kickin' IR flashlight, though. | 17:32 |
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| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, should pass in the infra-red machines without problems, I guess :) | 17:32 |
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| lcuk | VDVsx, i would rather see cellphones and mobile devices powered by lighter gas :) | 17:37 |
| lcuk | same reful port as lighters, top it up and use it | 17:37 |
| VDVsx | ;) | 17:38 |
| lcuk | hell, they even have the distribution network setup :) | 17:38 |
| GAN800 | lcuk, we need to get you some patches. :P | 17:39 |
| * GAN800 is baffled at Michael Jackson's excessive popularity overseas. | 17:40 | |
| lcuk | its not excessive, he was billed as king of pop and lived up to it for many people | 17:40 |
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| GAN800 | lcuk, sure, but he doesn't have anywhere near the popularity in the US. | 17:42 |
| lbt | he's black. The US is racist | 17:43 |
| lbt | most of the ROW don't care | 17:43 |
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| lcuk | lbt, not fair, i would expect an awful lot of americans are also not racist | 17:43 |
| GAN800 | lbt, bullshit. | 17:44 |
| GAN800 | How much time have either of you spent over here? :) | 17:47 |
| fiferboy | GAN800: Be honest, do you think your country would vote for a black man as president? | 17:49 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 17:50 |
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| Jaffa | Crazy talk | 17:51 |
| milhouse | but "pop" music is for kids... most people I know listen to every thing but "pop", so it is excessive... | 17:51 |
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| Jaffa | milhouse: But most people who don't listen to pop now would've been kids into Michael Jackson in the 80s | 17:52 |
| milhouse | GAN: I've seen Borat... :) | 17:52 |
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| milhouse | Jaffa: I listened to him when I was a kid, I liked Off the Wall, but I still think the wall-to-wall coverage is excessive | 17:53 |
| milhouse | The excessive coverage of dead celebs is a now a very worrying trend in the media :( | 17:53 |
| Jaffa | True | 17:53 |
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| GAN800 | milhouse, :rolleyes: | 17:56 |
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| GAN800 | milhouse, there are horribly racist people in every country on the planet. | 17:57 |
| GAN800 | That doesn't mean that every country is racist. | 17:57 |
| milhouse | sadly - and they come in all shades too | 17:57 |
| milhouse | GAN: I never said it was | 17:57 |
| GAN800 | Exactly. | 17:57 |
| GAN800 | There were a couple of them at MJ's funeral, in fact. :) | 17:58 |
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| milhouse | s/it was/they were/ | 17:58 |
| infobot | milhouse meant: GAN: I never said they were | 17:58 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: why the cc's? | 18:01 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, because i might want to set a proper TM later on when I know from which kernel revision a nokia software product is shipped | 18:02 |
| GAN800 | milhouse, unfortunately lbt's assertion seems to be that the US is the only country in the world with racism. | 18:02 |
| GAN800 | Which is clearly bs. | 18:02 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: oh | 18:02 |
| GAN800 | I've talked to a lot of European tourists, many of them are quite racist. Does that mean all countries in Europe are racist? | 18:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | yes! | 18:04 |
| milhouse | Those French - all bastards | 18:05 |
| milhouse | ;-) | 18:05 |
| pablo | I installed libqtanimation-dev , but when I created one example using QtAbstractAnimation , qmake dont find the packages... Solution!?!? | 18:06 |
| lbt | heh... excellent troll - sorry - but I would have discussed it if the phone hadn't rung | 18:08 |
| milhouse | Jaffa (and anyone else): If you're interested by the recent media obsession with dead celebs, Charlie Brooker covers it quite well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QN_hd9LeSs | 18:11 |
| GAN800 | If anything, MJ really broke down a lot of the racial barriers since he was a so non-threatening. | 18:12 |
| milhouse | Basically, he says (and I agree with) popular opinion is now more news worthy than... er... real news. | 18:12 |
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| milhouse | GAN: I never found Stevie Wonder particularly threatening either. | 18:13 |
| GAN800 | Helloooo, 1984 | 18:13 |
| GAN800 | milhouse, you're probably not a racist. | 18:14 |
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| milhouse | I like to think I'm not | 18:14 |
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| GAN800 | The world will probably be a happier place when Nokia finally releases that goddamn tablet. | 18:29 |
| milhouse | Another Charlie Brooker classic commentary on media coverage, with perhaps more relevance to the US... skip to 5:55 then listen to the forensic psychiatrist who is sadly spot on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd8IdK-T1Ew | 18:31 |
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| milhouse | GAN: Their shareholders will no doubt agree after the recent financial results. | 18:32 |
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| Jaffa | GAN800: s/tablet/device/ | 18:34 |
| GAN800 | Jaffa, thingamabob. | 18:36 |
| GAN800 | Or, quite possibly, 'piece of shit'. | 18:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | "Bong". Clutter is there to give you nice psychedelic effects | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | Nokia Bong. ;> | 18:37 |
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| infobot | I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power | 18:59 |
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| GAN800 | infobot, don't be a brownnoser. | 19:00 |
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| lbt | git is ridiculously cool | 19:24 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: I think I prefer bzr - simpler for my svn-addled mind to understand | 19:26 |
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| lbt | it's the easy branching that is so useful | 19:27 |
| lbt | although I have to admit that visualising it with gitk was essential to get a handle on it | 19:28 |
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| lbt | now I'm supporting feature branches on an upstream svn project | 19:28 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: I can say enough good things about git now that I know it | 19:33 |
| lbt | fiferboy: it's like zombies and vampires... shuffle after Jaffa and infect him ;) | 19:34 |
| lbt | I'm going to kick the living crap out of glibc | 19:35 |
| lbt | again | 19:35 |
| fiferboy | lbt: For OSB? | 19:35 |
| Jaffa | I've done bits with it, and selected it (and codebasehq.com) as a VCS for a new project; but I'm not sure I "get" it completely. | 19:35 |
| lbt | fiferboy: yes | 19:35 |
| lbt | Jaffa: total immersion for a couple of days in a real-world environment | 19:35 |
| fiferboy | Jaffa: Once you start using it more than a bit, it becomes REALLY useful | 19:35 |
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| lbt | fiferboy: have you played with gitk ? | 19:36 |
| fiferboy | It took me a lot longer than I thought it would to grasp the concepts, but once I started working with it it all started to fall into place | 19:36 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: I have used it to visualize a merge or so, but I'm sure I haven't used it to its fullest | 19:36 |
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| fiferboy | What do you use gitk for? | 19:37 |
| lbt | I just used it to transplant a load of commits + branches from one repo to another | 19:37 |
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| lbt | you've seen my gitorious page? | 19:37 |
| fiferboy | lbt: I thought it was only for investigating, you can perform functions with it? | 19:38 |
| lbt | oh yes | 19:38 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Which one? ;) | 19:38 |
| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build/UsingGitorious | 19:38 |
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| lbt | right click on a commit and cherry pick, diff -> selected, create branch | 19:39 |
| lbt | checkout branches... all sorts | 19:39 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: Have you tried any other repository browsers? | 19:45 |
| lbt | no | 19:45 |
| murrayc | Yikes. DikiKey don't seem able to deliver BeagleBoards: "Production for this board has currently been disrupted and we have not | 19:45 |
| murrayc | been provided a | 19:45 |
| murrayc | revised delivery date at this time. We will continue to update you on | 19:45 |
| murrayc | this status as more | 19:45 |
| murrayc | information becomes available." | 19:45 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm, that sounds weird | 19:45 |
| florian | murrayc: Try EBV, they build their own ones. | 19:46 |
| murrayc | I'm asking them for vague details. | 19:46 |
| xnt14 | hmmm | 19:46 |
| murrayc | florian: Yeah, if necessary. I just wanted something common and standard. Even the same models of boards from the same vendor can be different enough from each other | 19:46 |
| xnt14 | ~seen b-man16 | 19:46 |
| infobot | b-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 13h 39m 56s ago, saying: 'i'm shure you can find one for under $200 ;)'. | 19:46 |
| xnt14 | lol | 19:46 |
| lbt | fiferboy: I don't like the gitgui thing though... dunno why | 19:46 |
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| Stskeeps | murrayc: it's explained in http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/browse_thread/thread/06c35e38345e8996# i think | 19:47 |
| murrayc | Stskeeps: Oh, thanks. That's reassuring. | 19:49 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: either you browse the entire internet everyday or you have damned good google-fu... which is it? | 19:49 |
| murrayc | It's nice that they have so many orders. | 19:50 |
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| GAN800 | murrayc, jkridner is the contact for TI/Beagle on Freenode. | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i have damned good google fu when i put my mind to it :P | 19:50 |
| fiferboy | lbt: It is my "Infinite Oscillations" commit that breaks overshoot, I'm fixing it | 19:52 |
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| * lcuk smiles | 20:07 | |
| * RST38h moos | 20:08 | |
| lcuk | hiya rst | 20:10 |
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| VDVsx | ShadowJK, just in case you haven't seen it yet, here are the Surge specs: http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/6790_Surge :) | 20:23 |
| * RST38h can almost bet ShadowJK is salivating over Surge | 20:26 | |
| ShadowJK | hm | 20:26 |
| ShadowJK | not particulary | 20:26 |
| RST38h | Shadow: It looks like the best E70 replacement so far | 20:27 |
| lcuk2 | VDVsx, it LOOKS good, but resolution is somewhere between the stone and iron age | 20:27 |
| ShadowJK | Well it looks like a E75 sans numerical keypad... | 20:28 |
| ShadowJK | or 5730 | 20:28 |
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| adeus | yeah interesting resolution | 20:28 |
| ShadowJK | E70 has higher res | 20:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | 320x240? | 20:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Symbian 3.2 needs some phones with non-shit resolutions. | 20:29 |
| VDVsx | not a word about the processor unit, but should be a normal arm11 | 20:29 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: It looks less flimsy and has better keys though | 20:30 |
| RST38h | General: No luck there, thanks to goddamn WinCE | 20:31 |
| chx | interesting phone, that Surge! | 20:31 |
| RST38h | General: It was WinCE and its lack of support for other screen sizes that determined the 320x240 standard | 20:31 |
| chx | does Skype run on S60? | 20:31 |
| RST38h | No | 20:31 |
| RST38h | Not directly anyway | 20:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm sorry, but trying to do anything useful besides taking calls on QVGA is hilarious. | 20:31 |
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| chx | oh my :( | 20:32 |
| RST38h | SIP runs though, so no big deal | 20:32 |
| ShadowJK | there is a S60 skype version, but it's not publicly available | 20:32 |
| RST38h | General: I know :( | 20:32 |
| ShadowJK | and it's retarded liek the iphone version | 20:32 |
| * RST38h got invite to Google Voice but could not register :) | 20:32 | |
| chx | http://jobs.skype.com/2009/04/cc_developer_on_symbian_platfo.html | 20:32 |
| RST38h | Have to retry from work through a Santa Clara proxy =) | 20:33 |
| chx | the N810 at least has Skype. | 20:33 |
| chx | but the poor thing, so slow a CPU. | 20:33 |
| ShadowJK | E75 and 5730 aren't flimsy at all | 20:33 |
| RST38h | chx: Skype complained once that they just can't figure out how to port it to Symbian :) | 20:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's why you should use a service with open protocols. | 20:34 |
| * RST38h uses a calling card and a normal landline phone :) | 20:34 | |
| RST38h | Open protocols! | 20:34 |
| chx | thats really nice and could you please convince the world to use open protocols, too? | 20:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd hate to pay for phone services that only worked with phones from that company. | 20:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | chx, Gizmo. | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://sipphone.com | 20:35 |
| chx | gizmo | 20:35 |
| chx | oh well | 20:35 |
| RST38h | chx: I have better idea, let us just kill all humans, should we? | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nobody I know uses Skype. | 20:35 |
| chx | i am an open source developer so yeah open source. | 20:35 |
| chx | good for you | 20:35 |
| chx | eveyrone i know does and then some | 20:35 |
| RST38h | General: You are unusual in this sense | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, no, not really. | 20:36 |
| derf | Nobody I know uses Skype. | 20:36 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, oh, surge has the bigger battery, that's nice | 20:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most normal people don't use VoIP services. | 20:36 |
| chx | I find it *hilarious* when I say "i need skype" the answer is "no you dont" | 20:36 |
| chx | I do not use VoIP either | 20:36 |
| chx | it's an IM app | 20:36 |
| chx | that's about it. | 20:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Alrighty-then. | 20:36 |
| ShadowJK | fring does skype on S60 anyway.. | 20:36 |
| * Stskeeps has good benefit of skype when abroad or fiancee abroad | 20:36 | |
| chx | does it? | 20:37 |
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| ShadowJK | yes | 20:37 |
| chx | oh. | 20:37 |
| lcuk2 | skype kicks ass | 20:37 |
| chx | how come? | 20:37 |
| ShadowJK | what do you mean how come? | 20:37 |
| chx | they reverse engineered Skype? | 20:37 |
| lcuk2 | i was more than a little miffed to discover that on n810 it wasnt usable in video mode | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, Skype sucks. I'd rather use something I can actually use on several platforms. | 20:37 |
| lcuk2 | yeah windows, linux | 20:38 |
| lcuk2 | is there a mac client? | 20:38 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Using Fring is like pulling your fingernails | 20:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, sipphone.com | 20:38 |
| lcuk2 | i didnt ask that | 20:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Works with any SIP client. | 20:38 |
| lcuk2 | is therea skype client for mac | 20:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | No need to wait for Skype to support your platform. | 20:38 |
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| chx | yeah there is | 20:38 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, yeah, so the experience is identical to skype.. that's what you wanted, right. | 20:38 |
| chx | GeneralAntilles: try to understand this | 20:38 |
| lcuk2 | so skype works multiplatform | 20:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | chx, not talking to you. | 20:38 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: My Skype experience has been pretty flawless | 20:38 |
| lcuk2 | and FRIENDS and family know what it means | 20:38 |
| chx | GeneralAntilles: I need Skype as an IM/chat platform because everyone uses it. SIP is not IM. | 20:39 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: I still dislike it but for purely physical reasons | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | chx, Jabber. | 20:39 |
| lcuk2 | "you got skype" results in a number usually | 20:39 |
| chx | LOL | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | But, really, don't be so self-centered. | 20:39 |
| lcuk2 | "you got sipphone account" would get me blank looks | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Usually when I intend to direct things at specific people, I append their name to the front. | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, Gizmo. | 20:39 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: 10 non-English speakers trying to speak English in a room in front of a laptop, with their audio packets getting dropped makes for a very bad experience | 20:39 |
| lcuk2 | same problem | 20:39 |
| lcuk2 | "skype" has broken beyond the pc | 20:40 |
| ShadowJK | I think the best thing about SIP is that it works with anything. So, I can just get a normal-looking tablephone that does SIP, and replace the normal phone with that, while keeping the old telephone number and everything. No need for the user to learn any new computer software :-) | 20:40 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: In theory, yes | 20:40 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, in practice too | 20:40 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: In practice you are wrong though | 20:40 |
| lcuk2 | people can pay for skype service - hence helping its legitmetness | 20:40 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: SIP "flawless" work depends on many things | 20:40 |
| chx | So what is the difference betwen 6790 and 5730? | 20:40 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, I did it in practice for my parents. There wasn't even any setup required, just plugged it into ethernet and the phone automatically retrieved correct settings :-) | 20:40 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Your client should be compatible. There should not be any weird NATs between your device and the world. | 20:41 |
| ShadowJK | chx, there's a compare device section | 20:41 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: The connection should not drop packets. | 20:41 |
| lcuk2 | chx 1060 | 20:41 |
| chx | ShadowJK: where | 20:41 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: There is a lot of potential problems in SIP | 20:41 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Just because you got lucky does not mean it always works. Skype, on the other hand, does always work, if you have got two Skype clients :) | 20:42 |
| chx | http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2743&idPhone1=2869 | 20:42 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, it works flawlessy over double-nat and a wireless link that shows 20% icmp packetloss when downloading, and there's no drop in voice quality when downloading either. I was very skeptical at first, but practice proved me wrong :-) | 20:42 |
| chx | the surge is smaller but has a similar screen and has a beast for a battery? | 20:42 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Well, does not work for me. | 20:43 |
| ShadowJK | Amusingly, skype works far worse on the exact same connection | 20:43 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: I have eventually got the outgoing calls to work but then dropped the idea of using SIP after it dropped too many packets over my WiFi connection | 20:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk2, by the way, I'm repurposing the web site design since you don't want it. | 20:43 |
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| ShadowJK | RST38h, it even worked perfectly over wifi between my E70's notoriously weak wifi :-) | 20:44 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: Relatively simple setup too: E70 -> DI-624 (NAT there) -> provider (another NAT) -> sipnet.ru | 20:44 |
| lcuk2 | GeneralAntilles, dont ever assume i dont want :) i have a long leash, i am still thankful for what has been started there | 20:44 |
| lcuk2 | and it will be used :P | 20:44 |
| lcuk2 | i made this work just last week: http://liqbase.net/liq.20081031_033416.gary.scr.png | 20:45 |
| lcuk2 | multiselecting graffiti wall - look at the dates on there | 20:45 |
| ShadowJK | chx: http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/deviceComparison.xhtml?dev=[6790_Surge,5730_XpressMusic] | 20:45 |
| lcuk2 | i have been sidetracked with things | 20:45 |
| RST38h | Oh! Icons! | 20:45 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, ? on mine | 20:45 |
| lcuk2 | i had them for ages | 20:45 |
| lcuk2 | i allowed classic liqbase to use any sketch as an icon ;) | 20:46 |
| lcuk2 | that is old news :P | 20:46 |
| RST38h | lcuk: You know the last little thing you have left to do? | 20:46 |
| lcuk2 | no | 20:46 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Catch wazd ASAP, show him this screenshot and ask him for real icons | 20:47 |
| lcuk2 | no | 20:47 |
| lcuk2 | cos that editor doesnt exist | 20:47 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 20:47 |
| ShadowJK | lol, surge has the 2.5mm audio connector. That sucks | 20:47 |
| RST38h | really? what is this image then? | 20:47 |
| lcuk2 | the image was my hand drawn mockup of what i wanted the graffiti wall to look like | 20:47 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: It is Nokia, they had to spoil it right? | 20:47 |
| lcuk2 | i made it real this week | 20:47 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, yeah, and no wlan? | 20:47 |
| lcuk2 | the multiselectability | 20:48 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: ah.holy.shit | 20:48 |
| lcuk2 | and having it actually work | 20:48 |
| lcuk2 | i had stuff i needed to adapt to do it properly | 20:48 |
| RST38h | lcuk: contact wazd. really. | 20:48 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, you do not see everything, but yes i already know to do that :) | 20:48 |
| * GeneralAntilles sighs at no DisplayLink PPC support/ | 20:48 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: once you get the real icons you will fill obliged to finish it :) | 20:48 |
| chx | it seems that i lsot my almost brand new N810 and I am now wondering how to continue | 20:48 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, yeah see, if they add a battery that would give you useful usetime, they remove something else you'd want.. like wlan and native voip :-) | 20:48 |
| RST38h | s/fill/feel | 20:48 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, nahhh i wont | 20:48 |
| chx | there are so many choices... | 20:48 |
| lcuk2 | cos theres no point in icons until the functions are there | 20:49 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Nokia. | 20:49 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: At least Modest is not there :) | 20:49 |
| ShadowJK | this whining about modest is kinda old :P | 20:49 |
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| ShadowJK | where's mutt! | 20:50 |
| RST38h | BSD mail | 20:50 |
| RST38h | mutt is for wussies | 20:50 |
| locutus | Wanderlust! | 20:50 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, i have a bit of a sprint this week anyway (time off work for a change!) so i will be in a better shape by the end of it :) | 20:51 |
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| xnt14 | hmm | 20:51 |
| RST38h | go, lcuk, go! :) | 20:53 |
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| chx | what does the channel think of the aigo MID P8861H ? | 20:57 |
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| GAN800 | MID are hilariously oversized with terrible battery life. | 21:06 |
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| ShadowJK | GAN800, tiny is best: http://buttersafe.com/2009/03/10/tiny-house/ | 21:12 |
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| GAN800 | ShadowJK, thankfully I don't live in my mobile devices. | 21:18 |
| GAN800 | MIDs are big enough that they require a bag, and if you're needing a bag you might as well get a netbook. | 21:19 |
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| GAN800 | Besides, you're a bad place when 'powersaving' is defined as "turn the device on and off everytime you use it'. | 21:22 |
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| RST38h | There are now smaller mids on the market | 21:22 |
| RST38h | Still power hungry of course | 21:23 |
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| GAN800 | Smaller still doesn't equal pocketable. | 21:23 |
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| * ShadowJK doesn't care about pocketable at all | 21:23 | |
| RST38h | well, smaller ones fit cargo pants now | 21:23 |
| ShadowJK | can't use it in my pocket :-) | 21:23 |
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| hooey | Finally, I'm back. | 21:23 |
| ShadowJK | not until video glasses and some clever method of input anyway | 21:23 |
| RST38h | Neural probes! | 21:24 |
| ShadowJK | something like that :-) | 21:24 |
| RST38h | Preferably shaped as long, sharp needles | 21:24 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder how much power the screens use | 21:24 |
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| GAN800 | A large portion. | 21:24 |
| coldboot | Finally, I'm back. | 21:24 |
| RST38h | Shadow: ~50% of the total | 21:24 |
| GAN800 | Finally. | 21:25 |
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| coldboot | If you have an ATI video card, DO NOT upgrade to Ubuntu 9.10. | 21:25 |
| ShadowJK | smartq7 has huge battery.. on spec atleast | 21:25 |
| toggles_w | coldboot: ouch... what happened? | 21:25 |
| coldboot | Then, promptly buy an Nvidia card, and burn your ATI with molten lava. | 21:25 |
| coldboot | I had 30 days of uptime. | 21:25 |
| coldboot | Then I try to run Xine, and X crashes... or actually shuts down, because I saw the shutdown messages. | 21:25 |
| coldboot | Then I try to run X again. | 21:25 |
| coldboot | Surprise surprise, one of Ubuntu's patches has fucked up my ATI proprietary driver over the last month. | 21:26 |
| coldboot | So I can't start X. | 21:26 |
| coldboot | I try fixing the driver, installing a new driver, nothings works. | 21:26 |
| coldboot | I used to work for ATI years ago on a coop, on their Linux driver team. | 21:26 |
| ShadowJK | boot an older kernel? ;) | 21:26 |
| coldboot | I knew how fruitless this was. | 21:26 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: Can't you re-write the driver :) | 21:26 |
| coldboot | I didn't work on the driver, just wrote utilities. | 21:27 |
| coldboot | I could have booted an older kernel. | 21:27 |
| coldboot | But compiz was also broken, so I figured it's been a while since 9.04 was released, so I thought I'd try it out. | 21:27 |
| coldboot | Then VESA, radeon, and ati drivers aren't working at all. They all hard lock the system, even with a default xorg.conf. | 21:27 |
| coldboot | So then I was completely fucked. | 21:28 |
| coldboot | Getting the new fglrx driver would render a small improvement, X would be black-screen, instead of hanging, and I could enjoy my capslock lights. | 21:28 |
| mgedmin | and I thought things were bad in 9.04 for people with Intel video | 21:28 |
| coldboot | Don't use ATI if you can avoid it, their Linux drivers are total shit. | 21:28 |
| coldboot | Not much at all has improved over the last 6 years. | 21:28 |
| coldboot | They write terrible software. | 21:28 |
| toggles_w | i thought alex etal were doing a great job | 21:29 |
| toggles_w | granted, not ati, and no compiz support yet, but they run my cards ok | 21:29 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: What is the problem with Intel video in 9.04? | 21:29 |
| ShadowJK | coldboot, oh does ubuntu 9.10 use KMS? that might cause it | 21:29 |
| coldboot | They're doing the best they can, but the company doesn't make a serious commitment to Linux, and doesn't really care. | 21:30 |
| * mgedmin had the open-source radeon driver working quite well on his ancient radeon mobility l7 | 21:30 | |
| mgedmin | fiferboy: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/904 | 21:30 |
| coldboot | Getting acceleration to work is always a pain. | 21:30 |
| lcuk2 | coldboot, if it worked fine for a month then went in a flash means its being updated and will generally become better | 21:30 |
| mgedmin | it was either slow or crashed a lot | 21:30 |
| mgedmin | things got better | 21:30 |
| toggles_w | coldboot: yeah, but i think radeonhd is making pretty decent progress, another couple of releases should see it working ;-) | 21:31 |
| coldboot | In terms of track record though, Nvidia has done much better. | 21:32 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: I notice desktop effects periodically turns off with my Intel video, but at least I haven't had a freeze | 21:32 |
| coldboot | They had a great installer years ago, and still do. | 21:32 |
| coldboot | I still get dangling fglrx.ko objects which completely screw up the driver. | 21:32 |
| mgedmin | fiferboy: that's a compiz crash; just happened for me the other day -- actually, that was the first time it crashed on me in 9.04 | 21:32 |
| mgedmin | the linux software ecosystem is extremely unfriendly to source-less software | 21:33 |
| fiferboy | I used KDE's desktop effects, that must be why I haven't had it | 21:33 |
| mgedmin | it's almost as if they don't want non-open-source-software to exist | 21:33 |
| mgedmin | fiferboy: then I take back everything I said about compiz -- I don't know how KDE's desktop effects are implemented | 21:33 |
| mgedmin | maybe KDE just notices slowness and turns them off | 21:33 |
| mgedmin | no crash necessary :) | 21:33 |
| * mgedmin notices the channel | 21:34 | |
| fiferboy | That could be | 21:34 |
| mgedmin | oh, by the way, maemo mapper and osm2go don't fit into 128 megs of ram at the same time :( | 21:34 |
| ShadowJK | it's not like anyone is actively trying to break closed source software, or tivoize linux distros to only allow opensource software... | 21:34 |
| ShadowJK | there's far more unfriendly behaviour from the other side :-( | 21:34 |
| mgedmin | I wish someone looked into maemo-mapper's memory issues | 21:34 |
| mgedmin | I suspect sqlite's caches are to blame | 21:35 |
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| lcuk2 | mgedmin :) your stance on open source software is great, don't let the channel id effect how you speak | 21:35 |
| mgedmin | I don't recall memory issues back when m-m used plain tiles | 21:35 |
| * lcuk2 learnt a lot from you :) | 21:35 | |
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| * ShadowJK vaguely recalls saying something about sqlite and performance issues yesterday in between thunderstorm killing internets.. | 21:35 | |
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| * mgedmin hasn't noticed performance issues unrelated to memory | 21:36 | |
| ShadowJK | memory and I/O | 21:36 |
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| mgedmin | I think every time maemo-mapper starts queueing hourglasses in the corner, I see that it uses a lot of memory and CPU | 21:36 |
| mgedmin | so I think it's simply swapping | 21:36 |
| mgedmin | swapping kills performance | 21:36 |
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| mgedmin | wouldn't it be awesome if there was a simple knob somewhere that you could turn and tell sqlite to use less memory for cache | 21:37 |
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| mgedmin | that of course assumes my blind uneducated guess is right | 21:37 |
| mgedmin | this would probably make a fine maemo summit talk: "how I optimized maemo mapper's memory usage" | 21:38 |
| mgedmin | hint, hint | 21:38 |
| ShadowJK | so the OS has a cache and Sqlite has a cache. That's twice the ram already, except sqlite probably doesn't shrink its cache if memory is short... :P | 21:38 |
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| lcuk2 | http://web.utk.edu/~jplyon/sqlite/SQLite_optimization_FAQ.html | 21:38 |
| lcuk2 | that implies a recompilation requirement for cache changes | 21:39 |
| * Jaffa needs a new topic for a Summit talk, if he wants to save money and get sponsorship | 21:39 | |
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| Jaffa | "Vala for Maemo development" doesn't sound like a long-lived idea anymore | 21:39 |
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| mgedmin | okay, that FAQ says the default cache is 2 megabytes | 21:39 |
| lcuk2 | mgedmin, you could attempt to vacuum the db, | 21:39 |
| Jaffa | Maybe, "Development in the real world: IDEs and what they can do for you" | 21:39 |
| mgedmin | not exactly all-memory-consuming | 21:40 |
| * lcuk2 knows it as compact and repair :P | 21:40 | |
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| slonopotamus | Jaffa, talk about evil of patching the worlld | 21:40 |
| mgedmin | what happened to vala? | 21:40 |
| ShadowJK | maemo-mapper messes with screen blanking for me too, i haven't been able to figure out how or why or what, but sometimes with maemomapper open the screen blank time becomes 2 minutes instead of the 5 minutes i've set in control panel :/ | 21:40 |
| slonopotamus | Jaffa, or 'on-tablet development or whhy python's performance suck' | 21:40 |
| * mgedmin is seeing hints that nokia is sponsoring (or perhaps encouraging, no idea if $ changes hands) work on pypy with goals to improve performance and reduce memory usage | 21:41 | |
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| * mgedmin was all excited when he heard pypy's plans of mmap-friendly .pyc files | 21:41 | |
| slonopotamus | mgedmin, forget it | 21:42 |
| mgedmin | maybe we'll see some results in, say, 5 years | 21:42 |
| slonopotamus | mgedmin, python will never become fast | 21:42 |
| mgedmin | but it could become faster | 21:42 |
| slonopotamus | mgedmin, the only fast python parts are those that are written in C | 21:42 |
| * mgedmin has 67 megs in OpenStreetMap.db | 21:42 | |
| mgedmin | oh, right, diablo has no sqlite3 command-line client :( | 21:43 |
| slonopotamus | of course it doesn't! | 21:43 |
| mgedmin | uhh, file says OpenStreetMap.db is "GNU dbm 1.x or ndbm database, little endian" | 21:43 |
| mgedmin | that can't be right... right? | 21:44 |
| slonopotamus | and you won't be able to build one manually because diablo's libsqlite in incompatibly patched | 21:44 |
| slonopotamus | mgedmin, why not? | 21:44 |
| * mgedmin was so sure it was sqlite | 21:44 | |
| mgedmin | so only poi.db is sqlite? | 21:45 |
| ShadowJK | heh | 21:45 |
| mgedmin | does gdbm have an in-memory cache? is it tunable? | 21:45 |
| ShadowJK | strace maemo-mapper... and bingo, the thing I was talking about yesterday | 21:45 |
| ShadowJK | fsync()... 1 second to execute | 21:45 |
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| slonopotamus | ShadowJK, why it needs fsync at all? | 21:46 |
| mgedmin | sqlite likes to fsync | 21:46 |
| mgedmin | but why? what transactions could mm be committing? | 21:46 |
| mgedmin | saving the current track? | 21:46 |
| mgedmin | where does maemo mapper keep all the data? | 21:46 |
| ShadowJK | sure does consume huge amounts of RAM | 21:47 |
| mgedmin | ~/.maemo-mapper/paths.db is an sqlite db | 21:47 |
| infobot | okay, mgedmin | 21:47 |
| ShadowJK | ... 4 seconds to fsync | 21:47 |
| mgedmin | thank you very much, infobot, for remembering that very useful piece of knowledge | 21:47 |
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| mgedmin | ouchies | 21:47 |
| slonopotamus | :D | 21:47 |
| * mgedmin suddenly realizes why he never noticed | 21:47 | |
| slonopotamus | ~/.maemo-mapper/paths.db | 21:47 |
| mgedmin | because when you run out of ram, scrolling the map has latencies in tens of seconds | 21:47 |
| infobot | /.maemo-mapper/paths.db is, like, an sqlite db | 21:47 |
| slonopotamus | :D | 21:48 |
| slonopotamus | lol | 21:48 |
| mgedmin | :) | 21:48 |
| slonopotamus | ~/ is home, sweet home | 21:48 |
| infobot | ...but / is already something else... | 21:48 |
| slonopotamus | crap | 21:48 |
| mgedmin | what is /? | 21:48 |
| slonopotamus | ~/ | 21:48 |
| infobot | ~/ is your home dir silly!, or root, of all Unix | 21:48 |
| ShadowJK | infobot, forget ~/ | 21:48 |
| infobot | ShadowJK: i didn't have anything called '~/' to forget | 21:48 |
| slonopotamus | infobot, forget / | 21:48 |
| infobot | slonopotamus: i forgot / | 21:48 |
| mgedmin | okay, that's a bit inconsistent | 21:48 |
| slonopotamus | ~/ | 21:48 |
| mgedmin | / | 21:49 |
| mgedmin | \ | 21:49 |
| mgedmin | ~\ | 21:49 |
| slonopotamus | ~/ is home, sweet home | 21:49 |
| infobot | slonopotamus: okay | 21:49 |
| mgedmin | oh no, the ascii-art half-dna spiral got interrupted | 21:49 |
| slonopotamus | ~infobot is just boring stupiid bot | 21:50 |
| slonopotamus | ... | 21:50 |
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| coldboot | ~apricot | 21:53 |
| coldboot | ha! fooled you, infobot. | 21:53 |
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| coldboot | Tracking /opt/maemo, ~/.scratchbox2, ~/.maemo-sdk in git really paid off when I had to clean install. | 21:56 |
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| ShadowJK | heh, maemo-mapper rarely uses more than 20% CPU because it sits waiting on swap or file i/o all the time :) | 21:57 |
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| javispedro | ~burn gcc | 22:00 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over gcc, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 22:00 | |
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| slonopotamus | javispedro, don't touch gcc | 22:01 |
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| Jaffa | mgedmin: Vala's a dead-end for Maemo with the move to Qt; unless it had some Qt backends created. | 22:02 |
| Jaffa | Which'd be... challenging (AIUI) | 22:02 |
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| slonopotamus | vala's not needed | 22:04 |
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| Jaffa | slonopotamus: A nice, garbage-collected, high-level language with decent IDE support is needed. | 22:04 |
| Jaffa | That's probably Python now, with PyQt/Pluthon | 22:05 |
| javispedro | and that's called Qt with Boehm's, and is just waiting for anyone to develop it | 22:05 |
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| Jaffa | javispedro: Boehm's? | 22:06 |
| javispedro | a garbage collector which afaik works with Qt | 22:06 |
| javispedro | (for C++) | 22:07 |
| * Jaffa looks forward to seeing the ASM performance on OMAP3430; perhaps Java'll be a real contender there. | 22:07 | |
| Jaffa | Still C++ ;-) | 22:07 |
| crashanddie | I'd love to have a good Java implementation on the NITs | 22:07 |
| crashanddie | so I can run Eclipse and program in C++ on the go! | 22:08 |
| GAN800 | Woo | 22:08 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: javispedro's Jazelle work is promising. And Sun are incrasingly focusing on ARM with Java SE embedded | 22:08 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: :-p | 22:08 |
| * javispedro has been playing with jamvm and that's the reason he ~burnt gcc | 22:08 | |
| * ShadowJK would love to have any java implementation on the nit | 22:08 | |
| crashanddie | have you guys ever worked with ikvm ? | 22:08 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: not directly. | 22:09 |
| slonopotamus | javispedro, burn jamvm | 22:09 |
| ShadowJK | well mostly I'd want midp2, but still :-) | 22:09 |
| crashanddie | absolutely amazing: converts most java libraries into C#. Absolutely perfect when you have to use that half baked C# language but can still use familiar Java libraries | 22:09 |
| Jaffa | ShadowJK: Jalimo basically works. I've run equinox and OSGi bundles in X Terminal and written noddy little SWT apps which use it. | 22:09 |
| Jaffa | Start up time is the big kicker. | 22:09 |
| Jaffa | I looked at having a maemo-launcher like thing using OSGi to have different "apps" as bundles with their own classloaders etc; but SWT doesn't like not being the main thread. | 22:10 |
| ShadowJK | besides, having a java-launcher just means it'll get paged out while the user uses the browser or something else, and paging it back in is probably slower than launching it from scratch.. | 22:11 |
| javispedro | slonopotamus, the problem is gcc and whatever is doing with register allocations and stack. not really gcc's fault, since they clearly say that inline asm is not allowed to break program flow | 22:11 |
| javispedro | but I'm ranting either way | 22:11 |
| javispedro | ;) | 22:11 |
| javispedro | memory is the reason I'd wanted jamvm; it's the lightest I know | 22:12 |
| slonopotamus | java will always be a mem hog | 22:12 |
| slonopotamus | trust me, i'm java developer after all :) | 22:13 |
| ShadowJK | running it without jit should save some? :) | 22:13 |
| javispedro | jit usually means 2x memory usage | 22:13 |
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| crashanddie | slonopotamus, java developer as in "you develop using java", or, "you develop java" | 22:14 |
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| Jaffa | 19:36 < ShadowJK> so the OS has a cache and Sqlite has a cache. That's twice | 22:15 |
| Jaffa | Eh? | 22:15 |
| * Jaffa wonders what he pressed. | 22:15 | |
| Jaffa | ShadowJK: It'd be paged out, but it'd be paged in in an initialised state | 22:16 |
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| ShadowJK | Jaffa, ah but when it's finding something else to page out to make room to page java-launcher back in, the random write/read load will make the SD/MMC behave like a tape drive ;) | 22:16 |
| Jaffa | Not a flyer anyway | 22:17 |
| slonopotamus | crashanddie, in java | 22:17 |
| ShadowJK | hm wait, SWT on maemo? | 22:18 |
| ShadowJK | isn't that the thing that made azureus huge memory and cpu hog and unrunnable on PCs 'til this day? ;) | 22:18 |
| javispedro | I blame the gtk backend ;) | 22:19 |
| glass | hehe | 22:19 |
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| Jaffa | ShadowJK: SWT's lighter weight and faster than Swing IME. Azureus is slow and bloated as they pile in "rich media content" like a web browser which goes and does flashy effects to show lots of videos I'm not interested in when I want to torrent something | 22:21 |
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| chx | azureus can be cli | 22:23 |
| * RST38h throws up seeing SWT and Swing mentioned | 22:23 | |
| Jaffa | SWT's not too bad. Better than GTK+ at least ;-) | 22:23 |
| Jaffa | chx: Hmm, interesting. | 22:24 |
| * ShadowJK hasn't seen any flashy effects, web browsing capability or videos in it | 22:24 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | I think that came when it was renamed to "Miro" | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | it's miro now?didn't it rename to something else before that | 22:27 |
| chx | Jaffa: http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/12474107/com/Vuze-console-4.2.0.3-B18.pm.1.noarch.rpm.html | 22:27 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N810: s/Miro/VCuze/ | 22:27 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N810: s/Miro/Vuze/ | 22:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah, thanks | 22:27 |
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| RST38h | Any assembler wizards around? | 22:44 |
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| woglinde | rst arm? x86? | 22:46 |
| RST38h | arm | 22:47 |
| woglinde | hm little bit | 22:47 |
| woglinde | show me | 22:47 |
| RST38h | Actually I am looking for GNU AS directive that cancels .requ | 22:47 |
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| derf | .requ? | 22:53 |
| derf | Is that anything like .req? | 22:53 |
| RST38h | Sorry, .req | 22:54 |
| derf | .unreq | 22:54 |
| * RST38h usually uses ARMSDT syntax | 22:54 | |
| RST38h | derf: Ah! | 22:54 |
| RST38h | Thanks! | 22:54 |
| RST38h | Hmm...ok, it compiled. Let us see what it does now | 22:56 |
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| derf | For future reference: http://sourceware.org/binutils/docs-2.19/as/ARM-Directives.html | 22:57 |
| derf | I love, "Note - this pseudo op can be used to delete builtin in register name aliases (eg 'r0'). This should only be done if it is really necessary." | 22:57 |
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| woglinde | rst haha -> http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/gnu-assembler/arm-directives.html | 22:58 |
| RST38h | derf: Ah, the beauties of GNU... | 22:58 |
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| RST38h | Segmentation fault <== expected for the first run | 23:00 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | no thanks | 23:16 |
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| lbt | coldboot: do you know if fiferboy fixed that short-touch bug? | 23:25 |
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| RST38h | Second attempt. | 23:28 |
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| RST38h | Wow, it runs! 24fps though | 23:31 |
| RST38h | Gotta reduce the number of memory accesses | 23:32 |
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| slonopotamus | RST38h, what the hell are you doing? | 23:33 |
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| lbt | he's twittering | 23:34 |
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| RST38h | slonopotamus: coding in assembler | 23:35 |
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| slonopotamus | RST38h, having fun? :) | 23:35 |
| woglinde | rst 24 fps a game? | 23:37 |
| slonopotamus | woglinde, 24 fps assembler! | 23:38 |
| RST38h | woglinde: kinda... | 23:39 |
| RST38h | woglinde: GBA rotated screen mode | 23:39 |
| coldboot | Should compiling in armel go just as fast as compiling in i386? | 23:39 |
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| RST38h | colboot: No | 23:40 |
| RST38h | If you are using SB to compile armel binaries, your GCC will run on top of Qemu | 23:41 |
| RST38h | And native armel compilation is just slow because your device is slow | 23:41 |
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| slonopotamus | bullshit! | 23:45 |
| slonopotamus | native compilation is ok | 23:46 |
| slonopotamus | just don't write slow programs | 23:46 |
| woglinde | *g* | 23:47 |
| RST38h | yes, limit yourself to Hello World please | 23:48 |
| RST38h | fewer bugs this way too | 23:48 |
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| coldboot | RST38h: So right now the armel compiler is going really slow, it's probably not on top of qemu. I've had this problem before, but I don't know what causes it. | 23:49 |
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| coldboot | RST38h: This is in sb2. | 23:49 |
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| slonopotamus | RST38h, gcc is far from hello world, it isn't slow on n800 | 23:52 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: I thought Scratchbox 1, compiling to armel, used a cross-compiling x86 gcc | 23:55 |
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| coldboot | Who works on Scratchbox 2? | 23:55 |
| javispedro | and I believe this is the case | 23:55 |
| coldboot | What's an easy way to tell if the right compiler is being used? | 23:56 |
| Jaffa | coldboot: One man and his dog, it seems. | 23:56 |
| Jaffa | ;-) | 23:56 |
| javispedro | gcc -v should print interesting things | 23:56 |
| milhouse | So is this legit? http://www.intomobile.com/2009/07/16/first-non-nokia-device-to-ship-with-maemo-hits-the-market-optima-op5-e.html | 23:57 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: "legit"? | 23:58 |
| milhouse | official? | 23:58 |
| milhouse | or a chinese knock-off? | 23:58 |
| Jaffa | Legal, real or useful? | 23:58 |
| Jaffa | It's using bits of Chinook, according to Stskeeps (who's looked at the initfs) | 23:58 |
| milhouse | Legal & Real - I barely considered Maemo 4 useful... | 23:58 |
| javispedro | and the copyrighted firefox icon | 23:58 |
| Jaffa | No word from Nokia if they've licenced the Maemo trademark, for example | 23:59 |
| coldboot | javispedro: Here's what I get form scratchbox 2 in both targets: http://pastie.org/549887 | 23:59 |
| Jaffa | So, I guess it's mostly a knock-off. | 23:59 |
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| milhouse | shame if it's a knock-off - it would certainly help maemo to have more device support | 23:59 |
| milhouse | s/device/official device/ | 23:59 |
| infobot | milhouse meant: shame if it's a knock-off - it would certainly help maemo to have more official device support | 23:59 |
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