IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-07-13

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Luke-Jrxnt14: GIMME00:14
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EdLinLuke-Jr: emerge pizza and wait 48 hours.00:28
Luke-JrDomino's is faster than that00:28
EdLinapt-get pizza will get it to you in 5 minutes or less. ;-)00:29
Stskeepsow, burn00:29
GeneralAntillesDomino's? Gross.00:30
* Stskeeps prefers the local turkish/pakistani pizza places00:30
lcukedlin, apt-get pizza has dependencies on $cash00:30
auntieNeouh, I'm trying to partition this memory card to add swap, but whenever I unmount it maemo decides to mount it again instantly...00:30
lcukwhich cannot be resolved from my repository :( care to share yours?00:30
Stskeepskill ke-recv, auntieNeo00:30
EdLinlcuk: lol00:31
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auntieNeoStskeeps: it will not die T_T00:31
auntieNeooh, crashed it :(00:32
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auntieNeothis is impossible00:38
Stskeepske-recv stop00:39
Stskeepsin etc/init.d00:39
auntieNeoaparently ke-recv is in my PATH00:39
Stskeeps /etc/init.d/ke-recv stop00:39
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Luke-JrGeneralAntilles: only Domino's has bacon pizza00:46
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crashanddie_only dodo has bacon on their pizzas?01:04
crashanddie_Dammit, where do you live?01:04
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Luke-Jrcrashanddie_: I am held hostage by the evil state of Nebraska.01:05
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auntieNeoNebraska? never heard of it ;P01:13
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xnt14Luke-jr, xDDD01:18
* xnt14 preferes pakistani food01:18
GAN800Luke-Jr, what a piss poor justification.01:18
xnt14pakistani food ftw! xD01:18
GAN800Also, crashanddie_, usuk.01:18
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* xnt14 goes back to figuring out why wmii doesn't respond to the mod key01:19
crashanddie_GAN800, you suck!01:19
Macertouch books are going to come out like friggin popcorn hour boxes01:19
Macerwhere you have to preorder on batches01:19
Macerso i guess i should see mine in like 2 months01:20
crashanddie_GAN800, why do I suck?01:20
Macerthey better put some more chinese slave labor on it01:20
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, just because.01:20
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, and?01:20
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GeneralAntillesand what?01:20
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, nothing more to justify it?01:20
GeneralAntillesI'm allowed to be as arbitrary as I want. :P01:20
crashanddienot cool01:21
* GeneralAntilles goes to dinner.01:21
crashanddiearrogant guy answer: "Yeah I know, I'm hot"01:21
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, choke on a bone01:21
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GAN800Yes, sir!01:21
Macerhe probably weighs like 500lbs with acne and heart problems at 30 while going bald01:22
Macerlike in southpark where they are like "I don't know but he must be one badass dude."01:22
crashanddieMacer, you talking about who, exactly?01:22
auntieNeohalf of the people on IRC?01:23
MacerauntieNeo: hahaha01:23
Maceryeah that too01:23
crashanddienha, cuz I just find it ironic to have exactly that auntieNeo, a guy on IRC, quoting south park, dissing anyone else ;)01:23
Macercrashanddie: we don't all look like that :)01:24
crashanddieMacer, yeah, save face while you can01:24
Macercrashanddie: lol!01:24
Maceri'm only 430.. not 50001:24
crashanddieGA is probably one of the more healthy looking guys on this channel01:24
Macerand my doctor says with this headcream he gave me i should be able to keep most my hair01:24
auntieNeough... I weigh like under 100lbs guys ;P01:24
auntieNeoI'm the skinny geek type01:24
crashanddieauntieNeo, that either means you're a dwarf or would fit in nicely in Nigeria01:25
Macerhaha.. i'm 6'3" and weigh like 18501:25
Maceralthoguh since i quit smoking i put on a couple more lbs in just a couple days01:25
auntieNeoI probably weigh like 120-13001:25
Macerat 3'5" :)01:25
Macerlike an umpa lumpa01:26
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Macercrashanddie: that would be awesome01:26
auntieNeoI'm probabaly almost 6' or something...01:26
Maceryou are really skinny haha01:26
crashanddie6' shorter than shakeel o'neil?01:26
Macercrashanddie: haha01:26
auntieNeonah, I haven't measured myself in ages...01:26
auntieNeoI'm probably 5'5" or something01:27
Macer120 at 6' is like.. starving 3rd world nation skinny01:27
auntieNeoyeah, that would be bad ;P01:27
Macerdamn 5-5 is short haha01:27
crashanddieauntieNeo, you black?01:27
auntieNeohuh? I have no idea what my height is tba ;P01:27
crashanddiewhat am I thinking, nha, there's no black people on IRC01:27
crashanddietba? To be awful?01:28
Macercrashanddie: thre are a lot of black people :)01:28
Macersome black people i used to work wtih a whie back are on irc01:28
Macergranted we were computer techs but it's true.. black people ARE on irc :)01:28
auntieNeoI meant tbh ;P01:28
Maceri mean they are as rare as black hockey players.. but still01:28
auntieNeoracism? on my freenode? :(01:29
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crashanddieit's like white guys playing for the england cricket team01:29
Macerthat's not racism01:29
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auntieNeosexism I can deal with... but racism?01:29
auntieNeowhat about the steve erkal type geeks? :(01:29
Macerthat's statistical truth :)01:29
crashanddiejust doesn't exist, only paki :)01:29
* locutus raises a paki hand01:29
crashanddielocutus, play cricket?01:30
Macerwtf is a paki?01:30
locutuscrashanddie: no01:30
Macerlike a pakistani?01:30
crashanddieMacer, pakistani01:30
Maceri thought that was what the british called black people or something01:30
crashanddieMacer, it's a pretty non-polite word for indian/pakistani people01:30
Macerlike calling a cigarette a fag01:30
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: why the fuck am I not on there then. oh right, I be bullshit at it01:30
locutuscrashanddie: it amusingly enough means "pure" literally01:30
Macercrashanddie: like calling native americans indians?01:31
crashanddielocutus, oh really?01:31
Macerlocutus: lol ironic isn't it?01:31
crashanddielocutus, that's the best thing ever!01:31
crashanddiei'm going to call everyone paki now01:31
Macerpakistanis are offended when you call them pure?01:31
crashanddieunless they're a slut01:31
locutuscrashanddie: 'pakistan' means 'land of the pure' as well01:31
crashanddielocutus, I did not know that01:31
Macerwhy are people offended then when they are called a paki?01:31
locutuscrashanddie: paki == cure, stan == land01:31
Macercure or pure?01:32
crashanddieMacer, nha, but there was this big thing in the UK because one of the princes called "a brown mate" "paki" (quoting from the press)01:32
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crashanddieeveryone was outraged and everything, pretty hilarious tbh01:32
Macercrashanddie: haha01:32
lcukmacer, its not the word, its the context its usually spat out at.  same with any word.  you can say "fuck" in polite conversation and get away with it01:32
Macerso they were outraged because the princess called someone pure?01:32
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Maceri mean if someone called me pure i'd be flattered01:33
Maceri'm going to start calling people pure from now on01:33
lcukits not meant as pure tho01:33
Macerlcuk: fuck is an obvious word01:33
Macerpure is not01:33
Maceri mean unless being called pure is a cultural thing :)01:33
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crashanddieMacer, it's like when a black guy calls another black guy "nigger", or when you do, the difference is when you do, you should ask yourself the following questions: is that guy a friend? is that guy going to punch me? is that guy holding a 9mm?01:33
Macerpure you bitch!01:33
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Maceryeah but calling someone pure is like calling them black :)01:34
Macercrashanddie: hahaha01:34
Maceri mean i doubt if i walked up to a pakistani in chicago and said "he's a pure"01:34
Macerthat it would be a big deal :)01:34
lcukhow could i make nanosleep actually stay asleep01:34
Macerwtf is nanosleep?01:34
crashanddielcuk, while (1) nanosleep(1000)01:35
* lcuk rephrases01:35
lcukhow could i make nanosleep actually stay asleep until its period is up01:35
lcuki tell it to sleep for the balance of 40ms01:35
crashanddieyou mean it gets interrupts?01:35
lcuklets say 26ms01:36
lcukmost of the time its great01:36
lcukand works01:36
lcukbut sometimes it returns early01:36
crashanddiemeans you had an event01:36
crashanddiecatch it and call it again01:36
crashanddienot C++ :P01:37
lcukcant i just leave the event in the queue01:37
crashanddienha, that's the whole point of sleep01:37
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lcukso once there is an event in the queue nothing will stay asleep01:38
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crashanddiebasically, make a new function asleep(long t) { long start = microtrime(), length = 0; while((length = microtime - start) < t) sleep(length); }01:39
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crashanddieasleep(long t) { long start = microtrime(), length = 0; while((length = microtime - start) < t) sleep(t - length); }01:39
crashanddieyou get the idea01:40
lcukthats what i thought nanosleep was meant to do itself lol01:40
johnsqlcuk: sleeps all wakeup on signals, this is wanted you can send signals to wakeup01:40
crashanddieThe nanosleep() function causes the current thread to be suspended from execution until either the time interval specified by the rqtp argument has elapsed or a signal is delivered to the calling thread and its action is to invoke a signal-catching function or to terminate the process.01:40
lcukstatic int __nsleep(const struct timespec *req, struct timespec *rem)01:41
lcuk    struct timespec temp_rem;01:41
lcuk    if(nanosleep(req,rem)==EINTR)01:41
lcuk        return __nsleep(rem,&temp_rem);01:41
lcuk        return 1;01:41
lcukapologies for code01:41
lcukbut thats what i have now01:41
lcukbut its still returning early01:41
* xnt14 wonders why the hell is the mod key not responding to m-enter but it responds to m-a argh!!!01:41
crashanddielcuk, you're not initialising tmp_rem01:42
johnsqlcuk: while! you must loop01:42
crashanddiejohnsq, no he doesn't01:43
lcuktmp_rem is initialized within01:43
lcuknot outside01:43
crashanddielcuk, yeah, but you're not passing anything01:43
crashanddielcuk, why use rem when it doesn't have a significant value anyway?01:43
lcukim passing the rem result from the first call back into the second call01:43
johnsqlcuk: aua, recursion not seen01:43
lcukrem is set if nanosleep returned early01:43
lcukand result is set to EINTR01:44
lcukthen used in the recursive call01:44
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crashanddielcuk, so only the first call to nanosleep can populate rem?01:44
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lcukyeah, the second call *shouldnt* touch or need it01:45
crashanddiefair enough01:45
lcukthats only if something within that second call interupted01:45
lcukbut im seeing results way outside the timing expected01:45
crashanddielcuk, what's the value of EINTR?01:46
lcukdunno, tis a define buried away in headers01:46
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lcuki never created it01:46
johnsqlcuk: I always use gettimeofday to get the remainder01:46
crashanddielcuk, try if(nanosleep(req,rem) != -1)01:46
crashanddielcuk, try if(nanosleep(req,rem) != 0)01:47
lcukchanged to:01:49
lcukif(nanosleep(req,rem)==-1 && errno == EINTR)01:49
crashanddiefairy nuff01:49
* lcuk sees where i went wrong with that, but it still returns early01:49
crashanddielcuk, what value are you passing?01:50
crashanddielcuk, does it always return early?01:50
crashanddielcuk, do you get a EINTR when it returns early?01:51
lcukmeant to, just checking now01:51
crashanddiethis is awesome01:51
crashanddienow this is true "remote debugging"01:52
crashanddiedon't even need to look at the code, modify or recompile it, just bounce ideas01:52
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lcuk23:49:41 sleeping 6101:53
lcuk23:49:42 sleeping 4501:53
lcuk23:49:42 sleeping 5901:53
lcuki made it so it should only go at 10fps01:53
lcukso it was waiting till then was up01:54
lcuknormally its fine01:54
lcukand with debug prints it is too01:54
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lcukcos that slows it down01:54
lcukbut sometimes at the end of a cycle it goes to 30fps :@01:55
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lcuksorted, from outside01:57
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lcukcrashanddie, thanks for pointers01:58
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Macerhave to do it02:05
Macerhave to install cygwin on the xp netbook02:05
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javispedrodon't, install interix and you'll have made bill gates a little happier02:05
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locutusits actually faster to02:06
lcukinstall android on it02:06
javispedrois -mthumb really any faster on a n8x0?02:11
lcukdepends what you are doing02:12
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javispedropython itself seems compiled with -mthumb02:12
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lcukthe opcodes run at exactly the same speed i believe, however because the size of each opcode_tuple on *PC is 16bit (isntead of normal32bit) you gain by reading twice as many instructions per long02:13
lcukobviously, with thumb you only have a very limited range of opcode params available02:14
javispedrolike, no conditional adds and all that arm magic02:14
lcukyeah, the full32bit opcodes allow all kinds of strange combinations02:15
javispedroi've already resorted to disassembling but my arm knowledge is sadly lacking02:15
lcukwhat are you attempting?02:15
javispedroi didn't notice it was thumb until I saw how most opcodes were 2 bytes02:15
javispedrosome random function calling breakage I got with a python extension02:15
lcukyeah, thumb is more inline with what a "normal" compiler would be optimized towards02:16
lcukit would take serious foo to optimally use all of arm02:16
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Maceri like the size of this aspireone but i hate having to charge it so often02:36
Macerit's a pain02:36
Maceri just want my touch book already :(02:36
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xnt14modeselect maintenance slevel=6 reason="System Maintenance"02:44
* xnt14 hates synergy now xD02:44
javispedrosynergy as in "Synergy is a software application for sharing a keyboard and mouse between multiple computers." ?02:46
Luke-JrGAN800: wtf?02:49
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javispedronow I understand why every gcc's -mdo-something option has a -mdon't-do-that counterpant... they were thinking in the python extension build system02:52
infobotjavispedro meant: now I understand why every gcc's -mdo-something option has a -mdon't-do-that counterpart... they were thinking in the python extension build system02:53
javispedronice typo02:53
javispedrowhy I hate thumb02:54
javispedrocompiling with -mthumb-interwork -mno-thumb makes my problem go away02:55
javispedrois there any reason thumb hates functions with > 7 args? apart from thumb hating me of course02:55
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javispedroas usual, no way to reproduce in a simpler test case02:59
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prakany developers in here for maemo apps? I'm wondering about some recommendations on getting started as I'm confused about something in the maemo sdk site03:00
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camahuetoto all04:07
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camahuetodoes anyone here has used bluemaemo with KBluetooth4?04:11
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Luke-Jrcamahueto: wtf?04:17
Luke-JrI don't think KBluetooth4 has any Maemo code04:17
camahuetoyeah, I know04:18
camahuetoI mean has anyone connected a Maemo device (namely a N810) using bluemaemo, with a kde4 device using kbluetooth4?04:18
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camahuetobecause I can't, everytime I try to connect the devices, Kbluetooth4 can't find the Bluemaemo one04:20
camahuetoI'm looking at it as an input/keyboard device04:21
Luke-Jroh, I see04:21
Luke-JrI was confused because my N810 has KDE 4 :þ04:21
camahuetoohh, IC04:21
camahuetoI wan't to use the n810 as a remote control04:22
camahuetobut I have that particular problem04:22
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camahuetowell anyway05:01
camahuetowhen I try using the shell05:01
camahuetoit says "Can't get device information: Host is down"05:01
camahuetojust the same problem this guys describes:
camahueto(look for blue maemo)05:04
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camahuetook, bye05:16
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b-man16~nuke boredom06:08
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at boredom ... B☢☢M!06:09
jason__b-man16, I have many maemo-related problems you could try to solve to alleviate boredom.06:10
b-man16ok :) - but i dont have access to my tablet atm :(06:10
b-man16it's being repaired06:11
jason__I have AGPS installed at it works pretty well, but don't have a cellphone data connection.  If I know I'm going somewhere, can I download the assist data beforehand and then use it when I get there?06:11
b-man16i think so06:13
b-man16hi!!! :D06:13
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ShadowJKjason__, the assist data is valid for a certain general location for about 30 minutes or so :P06:17
ShadowJKif I've understood it correctly06:18
jason__I don't suppose I can get the orbit data for the GPS satellites and compute my own assist data for a (location,time)06:19
ShadowJKSome parts of the data do remain valid for longer periods of time06:22
ShadowJKbut we don't know how long the GPS chip/drivers cache it06:23
ShadowJKand if it doesn't, then it'll download the data from the satellites themselves06:23
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RST38h...illegally brewed or "country-made liquor", as it is called in India, is made with jaggery [unrefined palm sugar], alum and aluminium chloride.07:26
Macersomeone needs to make a google video chat app for an n800/n81007:32
jason__Can the camera be used from /dev/video0 as a normal V4L device?07:33
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johnxxRST38h, yes07:42
johnxxit's a normalish v4l2 device IIRC07:42
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johnxxMacer, is there even one for desktop linux?07:42
Macerjohnxx: i doubt it haha07:43
Macerbut it would be awesome :)07:43
Macerit works amazingly well in xp and osx07:44
johnxxlast time I looked, they didn't have one for mac even, but I'm not sure if that's still the case07:44
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xnt14guys are there docs on how to write a control panel applet?07:56
Luke-JrMacer: wtf?07:57
johnxxxnt14, here maybe?
Luke-JrDiablo's thing did video07:57
xnt14thanks :)07:57
johnxxsorry, I read too quickly07:57
johnxxthat's not it at all ...07:57
johnxxI swear I saw it somewhere07:57
xnt14its ok :P07:58
MacerLuke-Jr: wtf?07:58
xnt14is it possible to write hildon home panel applets in python?07:59
johnxxxnt14, I was under the impression that homeip did this07:59
xnt14ill get the source ;)07:59
johnxxor the "binary" :)07:59
johnxxI assume you've seen this page?
xnt14not that exact page, but the subsections. yes ;)08:02
johnxxthe pdf here has references to control panel applets, desktop applets:
xnt14 :)08:08
xnt14but thats c :/08:08
Luke-JrC pwns u08:08
xnt14well I know a little c, but I prefer python....08:08
johnxxhmm, trying to remember which plugin does it in python though..08:08
xnt14luke-jr, stfu08:08
xnt14im not int the mood08:08
Luke-Jrxnt14: FAIL08:08
xnt14/opt/xs/bin/setvar luke-jr = "FAIL"08:09
Luke-Jromg, extra fail 4 u08:09
johnxxsetvar? O_o;08:09
xnt14my set of tools im working on ;)08:10
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xnt14luke-jr, Please Kindly STFU, Thank you. xD08:11
Luke-JrNO U08:11
johnxxxnt14, woo! that is noble effort indeed08:11
xnt14rm -rf luke-jr08:11
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Luke-Jrxnt14: 40408:12
xnt14its not stable yet, so no release xD08:12
xnt14and this code is old xD, I need to update it :P
Luke-Jrxnt14: lrn2scm!08:13
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xnt14just stfu k?08:14
Luke-JrNO U!!08:14
xnt14ok guys i have to go to sleep, see you all tomorrow08:17
johnxx'night xnt1408:17
johnxxgood luck with the project08:17
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Stskeepsmorning qwerty1210:36
qwerty12g'morning Stskeeps10:36
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johnxmornin' qwerty1210:39
johnxhow's your summer going?10:39
qwerty12hey johnx, where you been? I'm good thanks, how is yours?10:40
johnxpretty good10:40
johnxlots of work, lots of real life10:40
johnxnot much hacking as of late10:40
johnxcompiling a new kernel on my wii though10:40
qwerty12Lol, my Wii stays unused. I should try Linux on it though at least :)10:41
johnxwell, I'll tell you where I get to :)10:42
johnxthe latest developments on it are quite interesting10:42
qwerty12The last thing I installed on it was that dodgy version of The Homebrew Channel that didn't support SDHC cards :)10:43
johnxif you're not up to the latest nintendo firmware update than I think it's really easy to install the newer hbc with sdhc support and bootmii10:44
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qwerty12My Wii is too new to install BootMii as boot2 so I had to install the IOS (which makes it good as a flash dumper, and not for much else to be honest) but I couldn't use the power/reset keys to control BootMii10:46
johnxso the newest wiis can't run linux at all?10:47
qwerty12Oh, they can (I used BannerBomb to downgrade to 3.2), just not BootMii. (Technically, they can run BootMii but not really as a recovery solution)10:48
johnxah, got it10:48
qwerty12Which kinda makes it pointless, but good to have if anyone ever makes programs that uses the full control of the hardware that BootMii can give :)10:49
johnxI think that's mini...10:49
johnxthat's what the newer wii-linux kernels are using10:49
johnxthey still support IOS though it seems10:49
qwerty12Ah, good, otherwise I'd be left out in the cold :)10:50
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RST38hmoo all wii hackers10:52
johnxm00f RST38h10:52
qwerty12lol, m0() RST38h10:52
johnxdid they make you president of all intel after your incredible managing?10:53
Stskeepsmoo RST38h10:53
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RST38hjohnx: No, but at least they did not fire me.10:56
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johnxso it went that well? :)10:57
johnxreminds me of the first UPS-test at my current work...10:57
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JaffaMorning, all10:59
Stskeepsmorn jaffa10:59
qwerty12g'morning Jaffa11:00
X-Fadejeremiah_: ping?11:00
RST38hjohnx: Worked out ok, although it was busy like hell11:01
johnxheh, so not exactly like my case. :P lesson learned: if a UPS says it can run 9 minutes on battery given the current load it is not safe to assume it can run for at least 4 minutes11:01
RST38hIf UPS says *anything*, it means "save and shutdown"11:04
Macercan someone explain the concept of a vpn to me?11:04
RST38hAnd it does not really matter what your UPS says11:04
RST38hMacer: it is a tunnel, a secure point to point connection11:04
johnxRST38h, yeah, well getting the core servers down in an orderly fashion proved to take longer than 4 minutes11:04
Macerdoes it run off one port?11:04
Macerwell.. i mean does it use an inbound tcp port11:05
RST38hMacer: That serves to route all your traffic to the other end of the connection11:05
RST38hYes, it uses an inbound port11:05
Macerand this is encrypted?11:05
Stskeepscan be11:05
RST38hit is encrypted11:05
johnxmost VPNs are11:05
Maceri think i need to make one :)11:05
RST38hOtherwise there is no reason to have vpn11:05
johnxit's kind of silly to *not* encrypt it11:05
Macerheh.. i've never done it before11:05
Macerjohnx: i figured11:05
Macerhow is the vpn treated on the client side?11:05
Maceras a part of the local network?11:05
RST38hit looks like a network driver11:06
RST38ha network device really11:06
Macermeaning i'd be able to use smb while being connected to the vpn over the internets11:06
Stskeepsjohnx: ipv6 tunnelling?11:06
johnxyeah, it has a route set for it11:06
RST38hMacer: yea11:06
Macerok.. that makes sense11:06
Macer:) let me see if i can set this crap up11:06
johnxthe ipv6 reachable internet is your own private network?11:06
Maceralthough i'm sure it would be easier if i were at the house11:06
* RST38h can't get a real IP address because the provider insists on the VPN11:06
Stskeepsjohnx: if you're megaloninac(sp) enough11:07
Macerwell.. let me see about setting it up on the xp netbook first11:07
Macerthen i wil have to open the port when i get home and set it up on the other end11:07
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Macerwhat about using a dns?11:08
Macercan you set the vpn to use the local dns that you would use on site?11:08
johnxyeah, of course11:08
Macermeaning would the vpn look at the local ip dns over the vpn and allow you to connect "locally" in order to access servers on the other end as though they were on a local subnet?11:08
johnxyou just perfectly described the purpose of a good VPN11:09
Macerok. thanks for the help :)11:09
Macerjohnx: haha sorry11:09
Maceri honestly never used one before11:09
Maceri have no idea of the concept at all11:09
jason__Macer, it's as if you plugged in to a network cable at the target network.11:09
johnxwell, you seem to get it11:09
Macerjason__: yeah.. that's what i was wondering actually11:09
Macerthat's what i need actually11:10
johnxbut it has all the weirdness of having 2 network cables plugged in to 2 different networks11:10
Macerjohnx: yeah that's what i was wondering also11:10
Maceri would be on a vpn/local subnet while using my phone tethered to tmobs internets11:10
Macerthat is where i get a little confused as to how things work on the client11:11
jason__johnx, true, although generally the vpn client sets the routes so that everything that leaves the computer that would go over the interface that made the vpn connection goes through the vpn connection.11:11
johnxfair enough11:11
Maceryeah. because i don't think xforwarding over ssh is meant to go high speed11:12
Macerbecause ff hardly runs11:12
Macerfigured i could just set up a  vpn to use vnc "locally"11:12
johnxff is pretty bad at remote display11:12
Macerand still keep it encrypted11:12
johnxnx might be better really11:12
johnxcuts down on round trips or somesuch11:12
Maceri was thinking of setting up ssh tunnels11:12
Macerbut then figured why bother doing that when i can just treat it as though it were local11:13
Macerand not require the ssh connection if i set up a vpn?11:13
jason__My impression is that ssh -X performance is CPU-limited at least as much as it is bandwidth-limited.11:13
Macerjason__: well. i'm doing this over a tethered phone11:13
Macerso i think my problem is bandwidth more so than cpu11:13
johnxI was under the impression that the biggest problem was latency11:13
Macerlocally the xp netbook and server work fine11:13
Macerthat too i suppose11:14
jason__I did not mean to give the impression I knew what I was talking about.  I should probably go to sleep.11:14
Macerwith my 400ms phone haha11:14
Macerjason__: lol11:14
Macergood night11:14
johnxjason__, nah, you're mostly right :)11:14
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johnxgood night though :)11:14
johnxeither CPU speed or latency or bandwidth might be the bottleneck in different parts of the same remote X session11:15
Macerwell. this is something that a vpn+vnc might be able to fix ;)11:15
johnxor nx11:16
Macerand keep my data safe while using unencrypted vnc11:16
Macernever used nx11:16
Macerbut for now i have to figure out how to set up the vpn stuff in xp11:16
johnxnx is an x server designed to improve the experience of running X11 applications over slow/high latency links11:17
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Macertheys how a little bit of the "revolutionary os" on the touch book11:29
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Maceras well as the actual device insides11:30
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johnxMacer, nice catch :)11:32
Stskeepsisn't it just xfce with compiz or something? :P11:33
johnxsshhh...don't spoil it11:33
Corsacyes they use xfce11:33
Corsacwell, he11:33
johnxseriously though, I couldn't care less which linux comes on it to start with11:33
Stskeepsjust as long as it's hackable? ;)11:34
Stskeepsjohnx: we have Mer on now too11:34
Corsacthe pre-orders are open if you want11:34
johnxmy rule is to only have one omap3 device pre-ordered at a time11:34
Corsacthat's a good rule11:34
johnxthat joggler thing's kinda interesting11:35
johnxbut probably not for me11:35
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Stskeepsit's basically EFI bootload11:36
Stskeepson x8611:37
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Maceri think i need to set up an ssh tunnel right now11:38
Macer :)11:38
Macerand i think i accidently left compiz on.. maybe i can just rm my .gnome config11:38
Stskeepsjohnx: so we finally got tested if touchscreen detection works on x8611:38
Stskeepsjohnx: , and it does11:39
Maceroh wait. no i don't heh11:39
MacerStskeeps: yeah haha11:39
Macerwell.. actually i don't think it's compiz11:39
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Macerit looked a little more choppy in its movement than i thought though11:39
Macerbut we'll see when i get my vaporbook11:39
johnxStskeeps, ahaha. I should get back and fix that ugly hack though *cough*11:40
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johnxI'll pay up as soon as I have the $400 kicking around and *after* at least one 3rd party is holding a final device11:40
johnxanyways, going on 2AM here. 'night11:41
Macersetting up the xp client for a vpn was retardedly easy11:44
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Macernow i just have to get home and hope my comcast router can do this crap for me11:45
Maceror if i have to forward it somewhere that can11:45
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Stskeepsmorning andre__12:00
Stskeepshow's it going?12:00
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andre__quite okay... gran canaria desktop summit, long weekend, now catching up with lotsa mail :-/12:01
Stskeepsmm, i'm preparing slowly for debconf and cleaning up the house before the miss comes home12:01
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Stskeepsthere's a couple of bug reports we fixed in Mer now, you can probably mark them as fixed then I guess12:03
lbtjeremiah_: ping12:07
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RST38h"It is also Dual Core so a 1.5Ghz Atom should (in theory) run about the same as a 3.75GHz P4."13:23
jaskaemphasis on the word theory?:)13:23
RST38hAh, those Internet theorists...13:23
RST38hAtom vs P4 is still an interesting comparison though13:24
RST38h2.4GHz P4 has a PassMark=329. 1.6MHz N270 has PassMark=30613:27
glasswhich p4 variant...13:29
glassor atom for that matter13:29
RST38hglass: N270 for the Atom, P4 type not stated13:30
glassRST38h: you know the type that make those comparisions on forums?    cheapasses who've lusted after a p4 for 5 years13:30
RST38hglass: This data is not from the forums. See
glassbut fast cpu's are nice. i recently digged up moray and povray :)13:31
RST38hglass: I am just considering replacing P4 based mdia box with an Atom based one13:31
glasscoupled with which gpu solution?13:32
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RST38hglass: Current one has S3 video, so you can safely say "no GPU"13:33
RST38hglass: It manages to play videos though...well, mostly13:33
glassfor non-hd stuf.. even a xbox1 does a fine job13:33
RST38hglass: I do want it to play up to 1280x768 though13:34
lcukyou should get something better than s3,  perhaps we could send you a CGA adapter13:34
glasslcuk: yeah cga! digital baby! just like dvi!13:34
jaskai have a mda somewhere... but its integrated into the mobo13:34
lcukjaska, but its integrated because its SO fast you will never need to upgrade13:35
lcukhow much room does the 16kb of memory take?13:35
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glass2.4 sq ft13:35
lcukwow, you got double density stuff!13:36
lcukthat musta costalot13:36
RST38hglass: ferrite cores?13:36
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glassRST38h: hmm. bumps on a wax cylinder13:36
lcukbumps?  you have a thermal writer? most use scratches and chips13:37
glasslots of nose goblins13:37
glasswould make for an intresting art project i suppose13:38
RST38hdelay lines filled with whisky13:38
jaskamemory loss would occur13:39
jaskain more than one way13:39
RST38hBut it gives "core dump" a whole new meaning...13:40
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aquatixjummy core dumps13:46
aquatixnow that's an interesting take to it13:46
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lcukRST38h, glass ;)
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RST38hCthulhu rising:
qwerty12Wow. After all the terrifying descriptions of him, I'd have never expected to see such a sweet looking thing.13:57
RST38hearly stage of development, all babies are cute you know...13:59
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thuxi heard mainline kernels will support n8x0 devices, but when?14:32
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sarowerhello all, Can i use clutter library for open GL support for "Desktop Widget" development?14:36
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lcuksarower, dunno, certianly not for n8x014:42
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sarowerthen where i can use that?14:46
sarowerlcuk: in normal application?14:46
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konttori__you can use it on any device that has fremantle on it14:47
konttori__sarower: ^14:48
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konttori__And before you have on in your hands (many of us have protos), you can develop on the fremantle SDK14:49
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sarowerkonttori__: That means i can use for "Desktop Widget" (Home screen applet) development...!14:49
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sarowerkonttori__: do you have any sample or source?14:50
konttori__Of clutter -> homescreen applet?14:50
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sarowerkonttori__: yes14:50
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konttori__nope. I would really want to make one too.14:50
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konttori__Hmm.. perhaps I can experiement a bit.14:50
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sarowerkonttori__: but how you are sure about that...14:51
konttori__Any python devs here? Anyone tried making clutter app to home screen?14:51
konttori__well, at wors you can render the clutter to offscreen buffer and replicate that to the applet14:51
konttori__so, there is at least a workaround.14:51
konttori__you would loose quite a bit of fps on that though14:52
konttori__Dunno if this could be used:
konttori__would be really nice to have someone make an example of using that.14:53
konttori__sarower: do you have the time to experiement on that?14:55
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saroweri am thinking...14:57
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konttori__remote texture is of course also available exactly the same on c side.15:02
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lcukkonttori__, it would help people i think if there were some maemo oriented clutter examples that people could tinker with on their desktop15:07
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konttori__sure. otoh, you should be able to use clutter as-is.15:08
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konttori__but yeah, there should definitely be something to help to get started.15:08
lcukyes, i know the library is the same on desktop and tablet, but having something they can pull in as "fremantle clutter test" helps to put context to that before they create an overloaded masterpiece15:08
konttori__I want to test it out myself (never done it), so if/when I get the hello world done, I'll make a post15:09
lcukand only you guys know the practical limits and can give a reasonable boundary for what can and cannot be feasibly achieved with the horsepower15:09
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* lcuk makes a 27 layer HD ready super clutter app and wonders why it crawls on anything slower than a 4ghx15:10
Macerwhat ports does vpn use?15:11
Macermy comcast business router doesn't have built in vpn15:11
Macerbut i'm guessing maybe i can forward it to my ddwrt wifi router15:11
Macerand do it that way. should go fast enough to handle it15:11
lcukhey konttori__ i found out at weekend, my lenovo thinkpad has accelerometers built in!15:11
konttori__lcuk: cool15:11
Stskeepsyeah, the harddisk15:11
konttori__I suppose most do these days15:12
lcukStskeeps, yeah well i didnt know lol15:12
lcukbut on ubuntu there is a driver which maps the accel data into the standard joystick input device15:12
lcukrather than having a specific custom  /dev api15:12
Maceri mean will i have to make an actual vpn server or something to get this working?15:13
Macerthat would kind of suck :)15:13
lcuki wonder if something would be possible with maemo - that way we could just use games as is15:13
Maceror put some type of vpn stuff on my shell box?15:13
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lcukMacer, dunno, never messed with vpn15:13
konttori__wonderful. there are not python bindings yet available for clutter in maemo repository15:14
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konttori__It's listed here:
konttori__I need to nudge those guys15:17
thomas1Hello, I have a question. Regarding my pidgin. It keeps disconnecting my MSN account. And -most of the times- it doesn't connect again. Is this a known problem, with a solution? Or am I the only one that has those problems.15:17
thomas1I'm using pidgin 2.5.115:18
X-Fadekonttori__: It is in extras-devel15:18
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X-Fadekonttori__: python-clutter 0.8.0-1maemo115:18
konttori__hmm... refreshing now.15:20
konttori__cannot find it using apt. odd.15:21
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konttori__X-Fade: it's there only for i386 architecture15:25
X-Fadekonttori__: Yeah, that is where you can test it? ;)15:25
X-Fadekonttori__: There are officially no devices yet, so ;)15:26
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konttori__well. i dont like testing on anything but on a real device15:29
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konttori__especially when doing something 3d, how else to test perf.15:30
X-Fadekonttori__: Well, we all would like to test on the real device too ;)15:30
konttori__well... you can... soon enough15:31
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X-Fadekonttori__: It is never soon enough..15:32
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wazd_n800heya everyone15:33
GeneralAntillesProbably never at this rate15:33
konttori__hmmph. if you would work on the os, it's never late enough...15:33
konttori__power management and tuning takes a lot of time. getting things polished.15:35
* Jaffa wants to test his Horizon app with some real accelerometers.15:35
lcukjaffa lenovo x4115:36
lcukpowersave mode is 600mhz15:36
konttori__use some usb accelo on n81015:36
lcukand its got clutter15:36
lcukits just a big daddy tablet15:36
konttori__hmm.. I'll make something else then until the clutter stuff is available15:38
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lcukheh konttori__ i said that last year :p liqbase is lookin nice and slick on just about everything i try it on15:49
lcuk(too fast infact, i had to implement framerate limiting on the x41!15:49
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Jaffalcuk konttori__: you provide me USB accelerometers on an N810, or an X41, and I'll do that. Otherwise I'll semi-patiently whine about getting a new device ;-)15:55
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lcukjaffa, my point about hte laptop is *many* laptops have them built in now (hard drive thingy)  its not just the one specific model16:00
lcukyour existing one might already have it..16:01
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hendrywhat tool from the command line takes screenshots on the display?16:04
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Jaffalcuk: I thought they were very crude ones to detect inertial shocks; not user-land exposed accelerometers.16:11
Stskeepsthey're pretty good ones really :P16:11
Stskeepsi was impressed with accuracy of my gf's laptop16:12
GAN800Depends on the laptop.16:12
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GAN800Either way, they're hardly convenient for that sort of thing.16:12
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lcukbetter to have *something* usable and testable in your hands than nothing, i was genuinely hsocked to find out they existed at weekend when kotczarny told me16:14
JaffaCan't find any info on how Dells expose the ones from the HDD. Suggestion seems to be that it's entirely within the HDD controller16:16
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Jaffa /disk16:16
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hendryis there maemo package for libwebkit-1.0-1 somewhere?16:30
Stskeepsi think bundyo's may count16:30
glassJaffa: theres very good sensors in some macs and lenovos16:30
glassJaffa: it's to detect free fall to send the hd to sleep16:31
glasswell/not sleep, heads off the discs16:31
glassJaffa: they can be used to play games like neverball (monkeyball clone)16:31
RST38h"Apple's biggest challenge will be convincing its huge installed base of iPhone owners that they need a MacPad too."16:31
RST38hbiggest challenge, hehe16:31
glassRST38h: notice how they don't even think that someone without an iphone would buy one16:32
JaffaRST38h: They've announced a MacPad, or is this theoretical windblowing?16:32
Corsacthough engagdet has some rumors too:16:33
* Jaffa sees it on /.16:33
RST38hJaffa: another leak16:34
RST38hglass: ah they do not mention it because they do not doubt it :)16:34
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fiferboycoldboot: Hi16:44
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lbthi fiferboy16:51
fiferboyhey, lbt16:51
fiferboyI'm waiting to see the raster performance after the latest build completes (ARM is done building)16:52
lbtyou don't know any debian packaging gurus do you?16:52
fiferboyI think jeremiah_ is the Maemo deb guy, but there might be some others in this channel16:53
lbthe is. He's not around atm though16:53
fiferboyWhat's the packaging problem?16:53
lbttrying to build cross-compile system for Mer/OBS16:54
lbtthe Qt git tree looks a bit of a mess16:56
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fiferboylbt: I don't pretend to understand it16:57
lbt3 commits have the same patch+message: The original code assumes 24bit color, but NIT is 16bit16:57
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fiferboy3 separate commits?  Or the same commit being applied to three different branches?16:58
lbta commit is contextual16:58
lbtsame patch to 3 branches16:58
fiferboyBut do they have different commit numbers?16:59
lbtcommit sha depends on the sha of the parent...16:59
fiferboyAh, gotcha17:00
fiferboyIs the issue that it was applied to more than one branch?17:00
lbtit should have been applied to one branch17:01
fiferboyRight, I can see that.17:01
lbtand then merged into each of the 'distro' branches17:01
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lbtthis way there may as well be 3 seperate repos which have the same patches applied to them17:02
fiferboyI see your point...17:02
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Maceri'm on hold with comcast17:08
Macerbecause of their stupid router/modem/firewall17:08
Macerthat totally sucks ass17:08
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Macerthis is going to totally screw me short term haha17:22
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hendrywhat version of maemo is 5.2008.43-7 ? Diablo?17:39
GAN800It's one of the Diablo releases, yes.17:39
hendryI asked that person to try Webkit, however this link doesn't work
hendryam I missing something?17:40
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andre__hendry, define "doesn't work"17:45
hendryandre__: "Application package not found" error17:46
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hendryi can't find the deb package on search either17:46
X-Fadeuse apt-get17:47
qwerty12This boils down to categories. Bottom line: apt-get install.17:47
andre__probably because it's a library and not an application17:47
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RST38hHehe, they want to deorbit ISS in 201517:56
RST38hAn unusual way to solve the crew delivery problem, indeed...17:57
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ShadowJKiss is in a stupid orbit :)17:58
Macerwhy can't this stupid vpn let me browse the web17:59
Macerusing a local dns17:59
Macerit's not the dns.. it's getting the ips17:59
Macerit's almost like it doesn't want me to use the gateway or something17:59
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dnearyIs there any way to get diffs mailed to me every time a MediaWiki page is changed, instead of simply a notification that it's changed once, which I won't get again until I re-visit the page?19:10
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coldbootdneary: Click the "watch" tab on the page.19:28
coldbootdneary: Making sure that you're logged in and have your email address set properly.19:29
dnearycoldboot: That will send me one mail, the first time someone changes the page, with a notification of time & person - no diff.19:29
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dnearyAnd it doesn't send anything for subsequent changes before I go back19:29
coldbootdneary: That's retarded.19:29
coldbootdneary: What a useless feature.19:29
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dnearyThe idea is to let you know that there are changes - then you go back & look & see what they are.19:30
coldbootMaybe you can configure it in your account, or perhaps it's a global MediaWiki setting.19:30
coldbootdneary: Yeah that's lame and insufficient, why would anyone want that redundant step when they've already had to read an email?19:30
dnearycoldboot: ask mediawiki...19:30
coldbootI hate it when stupid Facebook makes you go to the page to reply. Similar thing.19:30
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dnearyVDVsx: Ping?19:34
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woglindejo florian19:36
VDVsxdneary, pong19:37
dnearyVDVsx: Just wondering what your timezone is19:37
VDVsxdneary, UTC -1, in the summer19:38
dnearyOK - Portugal time?19:39
VDVsxdneary, yup19:39
VDVsxdneary, same as in UK19:39
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dnearyI'm in France, UTC+2 (I believe you're UTC+1, not -1)19:39
dnearyHow does 9am Thursday suit you for a proposals chat, then?19:40
* RST38h moos at whoever he hasn't mooed today19:40
lbtmediawiki is crap at notifications19:40
VDVsxdneary, yah that's it, my bad19:40
lbtI want "mail me whenever anything changes"19:40
fiferboylbt: The changes in 4.5.2-1maemo2 make fingerscrolling smooth again19:40
lbtI was looking at merging them into Mer Qt19:41
woglindefiferboy yes the bad commit was found19:41
RST38hMental Note: ldrsh != ldrhs, and the one that DOES NOT sign-extend is actually ldrsh19:41
VDVsxdneary, I only arrive at home at the noon :(, but let me see19:41
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dnearylbt: Me too, that's what I want19:42
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fiferboyI am trying coldboot's flicker fix (but OSK break) to see if that affect table view scrolling performance19:42
RST38hMental Note 2: GNU ARM Assembler sucks moose balls, may the Tentacled One brainfuck its creators.19:42
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coldbootIs there something way better than MediaWiki that's free?19:42
dnearyVDVsx: Well, we could do it by email, but generally resolving conflicts like this requires real-time19:42
Stskeepsdokuwiki is nice19:42
lbtdneary: I think you have to write your own... I think the problem is that many mediawiki installs are mega-installs19:42
woglinderst arm assembler is nice19:42
dnearycoldboot: MediaWiki's pretty darn good in other ways19:42
lbtagreed ... MW is the best on aggregate19:43
coldbootfiferboy: When I left work on Friday I was still compiling. Getting segfaults now, which is odd, because I have qDebug() statements that won't print, before any changed code I wrote...19:43
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coldbootdneary: Yeah that is true.19:43
VDVsxdneary, 11am or 2 pm onwards would be better for me, not sure if I will have internet access at the morning :)19:43
dnearyI'll be in crunch time - flying out at 7am Friday for OSCON19:43
fiferboycoldboot: That is strange.  git bisect?19:44
RST38hwoglinde: Except that there is no ARM SDT for Unix that would integrate with GCC toolchain19:44
dnearyI'll make myself available - co-ordinate a time with Baloo that suits you both, I'll try to work around it.19:44
RST38hwoglinde: And GNU GAS is an atrocity19:44
flibHi, I just installed a fresh install of OS2008 on my N800, and I can't connect to the repositories19:44
VDVsxdneary, what about tonight ?19:44
coldbootfiferboy: Well I'm using the svn version for 4.5.0-maemo2, but it's such a small amount of code, I'm binary searching now.19:45
dnearyJamie's cooking dinner for wife & kids now19:45
dnearyBut later would be good for me19:45
VDVsxdneary, me too19:45
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dnearyVDVsx: Ask away, I'll work around the time if you're both about for a while later19:45
JamieBennettI can do late dneary as in 30 minutes?19:45
dnearyOK - let's say 30 mins here19:46
JamieBennettOK, back then19:46
VDVsxok fine for me19:46
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RST38hNokia Surge (aka Mako) is out on AT&T network19:46
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VDVsxRST38h, ugly thing :)19:46
RST38hIf you want to see what N900 SHOULD be like (but never will) take a look19:47
RST38hVDV: Ugly, yes, but perfectly usable19:47
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RST38hVDV: Dpad, 4-row keyboard with real space bar and real keys, no silvery crap that chips, and it only costs $80 subsidized19:48
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VDVsxRST38h, however I think is a very suitable design for the US market19:49
RST38hVDV: It is a very suitable design for ANY market19:49
RST38hVDV: Most likely not done by N-series team though19:49
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ustunozgurhow does one create shortcuts in xterm? C-a for example19:50
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RST38hVDV: (I do not mean the feature set of course, just the physical appearance)19:51
VDVsxRST38h, I don't like very much the row of special buttons near to the screen, maybe I can change my opinion when I see one live :P19:52
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ShadowJKWhat's the real price?19:54
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VDVsxI bet around $20019:55
ShadowJKis this a s60 device? how much cpu and ram?19:56
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VDVsxyeah is a S6019:57
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finnis there anything other than formatting that I can do in order to get a SD card working over USB?19:57
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ShadowJKcan't find the specs on it19:58
StskeepsRST38h: if keyboard is anything to go by on the devel device, i like the keyboard on the devel device over that device19:58
ShadowJKDoes it have any "normal" nokia model number too?19:59
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qwerty12ShadowJK, Nokia 6790 according to engadget19:59
ShadowJKnothing about that on forum nokia either :/20:00
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VDVsxShadowJK, Symbian S60 3.2 on board and the side slider also packs a 2.6 inch QVGA display, a QWERTY keyboard, aGPS and 128MB of on board memory.20:01
qwerty12And I'd much rather have an N810 keyboard in front of me compared to the one on that 6790 (and that is saying something).20:01
* ShadowJK has gotten used to N810 keyboard now20:02
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JamieBennettdneary, VDVsx I'm around now20:07
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VDVsxJamieBennett, me too :)20:08
dnearyJamieBennett, VDVsx: Cool20:09
JamieBennettomelette devoured  :)20:10
lbtjeremiah_: PING20:10
lbtanyone know how to send a really loud ping?20:11
woglindekick him through the cable20:11
dnearyOK - the ones we disagree on:20:12
dnearyGo-to market opportunities20:12
dnearyI feel like we have to say yea or nay here20:12
dnearyI'm leaving towards yea, only because it's a subject we're not likely to see treated better by anyone else20:12
dnearylbt: Try Jabber?20:12
JamieBennettI'm OK with saying yes as long as there is a good portion of the talk devoted to Maemo20:13
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dnearyHe's off-line now20:13
dnearyVDVsx: ?20:13
VDVsxagree to Jamie20:13
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unixSnobI don't like VI - what other editors are there, that I can use when I ssh into my NIT?20:14
JamieBennettMaybe get some assurances that Maemo is indeed a part of the talk20:14
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VDVsxa *good* part in that case20:15
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dnearyJamie: OK20:15
dnearyYou saw the mail he sent back (added to the talk page)?20:15
JamieBennettYes although that didn't say much about Maemo20:16
woglindeunixSnob look at the package list20:16
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JamieBennettI like the idea of the talk its just that from a Maemo perspective I want to see the other platform experiences not only talked about but also compared with the Maemo offerings to make it more relevant e.t.c.20:17
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dnearyJamieBennett: I don't have a problem with opening it a *bit* beyond Maemo20:18
dnearyand Fring's a company successfully making money selling mobile applications, so - maybe some insights to be had20:18
* xnt14 wakes up20:19
VDVsxdneary, yup,I like the topic, and seems a interesting presentation for mobile dev's, at least20:19
JamieBennettAgreed and at the the first summit Jay gave a great Mozilla talk so although I would like to see more Maemo in the talk I will say yes20:19
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VDVsxdneary, JamieBennett , after the stated arguments, from me is a yes20:21
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dnearyLet's say yes to that, then20:22
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unixSnobdamn.. the latest updates broke the openvpn gui tool.. did anyone else notice that?20:23
dnearySecond: Canola20:23
coldbootDoes every call to qDebug() flush the output buffer?20:23
dnearyLet's skip that for a sec20:23
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dnearyEvangelising Mer20:23
dnearyCan we agree on "wait & see"?20:23
X-Fadedneary: Fring doesn't sell apps, right?20:23
X-Fadedneary: They sell minutes?20:23
dnearyX-Fade: They sell time, yes20:23
JamieBennettdneary: Yes20:23
dnearyI wouldn't mind buying a couple of days from them this week, actually20:24
VDVsxdneary, agreed20:24
dnearyHildon toolkit for Fremantle: application developers or platform?20:24
lbtdneary: did you say :   Evangelising Mer......Can we agree on "wait & see"?   in which case can you explain?20:24
dnearylbt: Yes, I did20:25
coldbootI wonder why Fring still doesn't have a blackberry client.20:25
* xnt14 hates synergy20:25
Stskeepslbt: argumentation in Talk:Maemo_Summit_2009/Submissions20:25
VDVsxdneary, changing my opinion, app dev's20:25
dnearylbt: There's a proposal for a Maemo Summit talk with the title "Evangelizing Mer, and Tips on Promoting Your Own Project"20:25
wazdreheya Maemo :)20:25
lbtnp  :)20:25
dnearylbt: we agree that a subject like that might be interesting for the Summit (how best to evangelise products you're involved with) but I think that a better presentation or presenter might come along20:26
dnearyVDVsx: OK - agreed on app devs, then20:26
lbtOK, I am expecting to put together a talk based on the one I'm doing for the UK Open Systems Group in August.20:26
lbtI'm not missing a deadline am I?20:26
Stskeepsthe angle is also "get maemo out there, how to use grassroots, present at lugs, local activism", etc :)20:26
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dnearyJamieBennett:  Mer: A year after. Do you still think lighhtning talk?20:26
VDVsxdneary, after saw the GCDS presentation, I changed my angle of view, about that one20:27
lbt   (search 'Touching Linux')20:27
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lbtI expect to be able to enrich it with some Moblin content too  ;)20:27
dnearyVDVsx: You were in GCDS? We must have met, but I don't remember you introducing yourself20:27
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VDVsxdneary, no, just saw the slides, lol20:28
JamieBennettdneary: I'd like to see a definate Mer presence but I'm not sure a full presentation would be appropriate for the subject. Maybe if I saw more of an outline of what is going to be in the talk20:28
dnearyStskeeps: OK, thanks for the info20:28
JamieBennett*the subject* not meaning Mer but the talk subject title20:28
dnearyJamieBennett: Mer's been one of the most important community projects in Maemo over the past year - I'd expect there to be at least 2 presentation slots in there20:28
dnearyI understand, though20:28
JamieBennettYes me too20:28
dnearyThe subject seems to me like your typical "overview of Mer" abstract, which sopunds good to me20:29
JamieBennettI'm not adverse to saying yes to this20:29
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unixSnobnevermind... tunnel gui app works.. I just had to remove all applets, and add the openvpn applet FIRST, then the others20:29
dnearyJamieBennett: OK20:30
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JamieBennettI'll say yes (although as you two have also said yes it makes no difference to the vote ;))20:30
dnearyJamie: It's not a vote20:30
dnearyIt's all or nothing20:30
dnearyUnanimous, or we talk about it20:30
dnearyAny one person might have a veto vote20:30
dnearyNext: speeding up Maemo development20:31
JamieBennettOK, I'll say yes.20:31
dnearyWait & see?20:31
VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary , I vote for a presentation, a LT is too short to recap a full year of an project like mer20:31
dnearySeems like there's some interest, but no-one saying "Yes!"20:31
JamieBennettdneary: No, I'll say yes to the talk (Mer)20:31
dnearyJamieBennett: Yes, got it. Moved on already :)20:32
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JamieBennett:) I like the idea of a ESbox and Pluthon talk20:32
VDVsxseems interesting to me from a dev POV, but let's wait a bit more20:33
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VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary , done ?20:35
JamieBennettwait and see is fine from me20:35
dnearyWhat's ESbox and Pluthon?20:36
dnearyVDVsx: Done!20:36
dnearyThanks guys20:36
X-Fadedneary: Alternative GUI development from Nokia.20:36
VDVsxJamieBennett, we must wait for a reply to your comment20:36
X-Fadedneary: Eclipse integration.20:36
dnearyAh, forgot one20:36
JamieBennettVDVsx: What comment?20:37
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dnearyWe have 7 yes, 1 no, 2 wait and see, and 1 proposed "Stars" session, and 1 session we haven't talked about yet20:37
VDVsxJamieBennett, pluthon and esbox talk20:38
JamieBennettI said wait and see20:38
JamieBennettOK, what about the Canola talk(s)20:39
VDVsxJamieBennett, I'm talking about the comment in the wiki :P20:39
JamieBennettAh OK :D20:39
VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary , I would like to see a presentation around the canola framework20:40
dnearyJamieBennett: What do you think?20:41
* xnt14 wonders where home panel applets are stored in the filesystem......20:41
JamieBennettI know the indt guys have some cool projects that I'm sure use the Canola framework. It would be nice to see a talk along the lines of 'how to use the Canola framework to make graphically rich applications"20:41
VDVsxand maybe a LT + app developers presentation will be the best suit here20:41
* xnt14 pokes around20:41
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xnt14qwerty12, any ideas?20:45
JamieBennettI would be fine with the LT and full talk proposal20:45
xnt14I found /usr/share/applications/hildon-home, those are .desktop files20:45
JamieBennettdneary, your thoughts?20:46
qwerty12_N810xnt14: /usr/lib/hildon-home/20:46
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dnearyOK - so approve it as a framework talk, and encourage a second talk about the application, is what I'm hearing?20:47
dnearyI will go along with that.20:47
JamieBennettdneary: Yes IMO20:47
xnt14qwerty12, thanks :)20:47
dnearyWe're going to start running out of developer slots before user track slots, that's for sure20:47
JamieBennettthats my worry at the moment20:47
VDVsxJamieBennett, dneary second talk == LT IMO20:47
JamieBennettWe need the indt guys to show us Canola, the OpenGL ES Fremantle version ;)20:48
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VDVsxJamieBennett, they are now working with Qt, afaik20:49
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VDVsxdneary, JamieBennett , I've to go guys (football time :)), any final thoughts ?20:52
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dnearyVDVsx: wear shinguards, break legs20:53
JamieBennettLooks like a wait and see then, maybe propose some options to the Canola guys?20:53
dnearyVDVsx: Or don't break legs, but just break spirits20:53
dnearyJamieBennett: I'm happy to go with what ye said for the Canola talk20:53
dnearyYes for framework, ask them to submit a canola the applicatioon talk20:54
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VDVsxdneary, JamieBennett, cya later20:56
JamieBennettOK bye20:56
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coldbootDon't change qwidget.h before compiling unless you have something else to do for... forever.20:56
lcukVDVsx, have you found out what the other fm stars are doing, cos i will need to arrange myself accordingly20:57
woglindehi lcuk20:58
lcukie if you give me a little slot i hold back20:58
lcukhiya woglinde \o20:58
lcukwoglinde, are you through your exams now20:59
* lcuk hopes it was you20:59
woglindelcuk hm nope21:00
woglindenot through exams21:00
lcukthen it wasnt you lol21:00
* lcuk must remember to drink less21:00
woglindeand diploma thesis at head21:01
lcukahhh, how long is left21:02
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woglindedidnt register it yet21:02
woglindethen 6 months21:02
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lcukare there any carpenters around21:04
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lcukor should i ask in #gentoo?21:05
lcukhes on irc?21:05
glassi've burnt a lot of wood and planted couple of thousand trees, do i qualify?-D21:05
lcukheh not really21:06
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lcukim wondering how i could make something21:06
glasslcuk: i know a bit of woodworking/whats cheap in a hw store21:06
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lcukwell im thinking about the smartq721:07
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lcukcurrently, i have my 810 in this:
lcukand it sits nicely t 45deg21:08
glassah something like that21:09
lcukthe stand on that smartq5 is flimsy21:09
lcukor looks it21:09
Stskeepsno stand on a q521:09
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lcukphoto up there sts21:09
lcuki know the 5 has no stand21:09
glasslcuk: lots of plastic-like stuff on sale that hardens as to plastic21:09
lcukits a square brick tho21:09
* xnt14 fires up gimp and works on his theme21:09
lcukim not worried about technical ability21:09
glasslcuk: and dremel clones cost something like 40 bucks now21:09
lcuka dremel wont really make the shape i need21:10
lcukwhich is nearly flat but not quite21:10
coldbootlcuk: Do you need to make something out of plastic?21:10
lcukthe putty type stuff sounds good tho21:10
lcukcoldboot, i prefer wood really, but this one will be more for wall based21:10
coldbootlcuk: A guy I worked with makes a robot that makes stuff out of plastic.21:10
lcukso it doent really matter21:10
glasslcuk: dremel has plenty of accessories :)   it's just handier tool than getting saws and shit..21:11
lcukcnt machine21:11
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lcukglass, i have dremel, but this is 7inches of precision depth required21:11
lcuki actually tihnk some sort of putty would work21:11
lcukput bag round device21:11
lcukpress in21:11
glasslcuk: you might like www.hackedgadgets.com21:11
lcukand get a really good form21:11
lcukim just thinking ahead - i wouldv prefered the smartq7 to have a wall hanger21:12
* xnt14 has a dremel o.0 xDDDD21:12
lcukbut its shape would leave it unstable around the edges21:12
xnt14no im serious xD21:12
lcukheh, so ive gotta make the bot so it can make the stand21:13
lcukthats like chicken and egg21:13
lcuki would be quicker encouraging luke to do woodwork and send him through college lol21:13
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* xnt14 misses compiz.......21:14
lcukglass, thanks for putty idea, at first impression it would work21:14
lcukand could be used for any principle21:14
lcukdevice ^21:15
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tann_Is it possible to use my n810 as a bluetooth adapter for my computer?21:16
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: ping?21:17
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qwerty12_N810X-Fade: pong21:21
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: can you upload a new version of a package of yours?21:26
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: I want to test an autobuilder log import feature ;)21:27
fiferboycoldboot: I have a fix for the flicker issue21:27
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qwerty12_N810X-Fade: Sorry, I can't do that as I'm on a tablet :(21:27
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coldbootfiferboy: Really?21:28
coldbootfiferboy: What did you do?21:28
coldbootThis compiling of Qt is killing me, it takes forever.21:28
fiferboyThere is no flicker, and OSK is working with the widgets I tested21:28
coldbootfiferboy: What's the fix, do you have a diff?21:29
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coldbootfiferboy: You're from Hamilton?21:29
fiferboycoldboot: Yes, I'm from Hamilton21:31
fiferboyPretty simple change, works in the cases I can find21:32
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coldbootfiferboy: Just that one return condition in that one file?21:38
fiferboycoldboot: Yep21:38
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fiferboyIt basically decides the keyboard doesn't need to popup for that widget and doesn't do the unessesary conversion21:39
coldbootfiferboy: Yeah, it's still going to convert text fields, though.21:39
fiferboyTrue, it is not a perfect solution, but it fixes our case (the only case that has been noticed AFAIK) and doesn't break anything that I can find.21:40
fiferboyMaybe not ideal, but better than our current situation21:40
coldbootYeah it's definitely good enough.21:40
coldbootVery convenient function there, canUseIM().21:40
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coldbootI'm still compiling my previous fix.21:41
fiferboyOne case I can't test right now is an editor in an itemview.  My app doesn't use that21:41
coldbootDon't know if it works yet.21:41
coldbootUse shopper21:41
coldbootBut I never got flashing with text fields anyway, only tables and drop downs.21:41
fiferboycoldboot: I tried some focusProxy code, but still couldn't get the keystroke to go to the widget21:41
fiferboyI have tested line edits and editable combo boxes with no problem, and my tableview which used to flash doesn't flash anymore21:42
fiferboyI just wonder what would happen if you have an editable cell in a table, whether it would cause the flash21:42
coldbootfiferboy: It probably would.21:43
coldbootfiferboy: But, for now, this is great, because we don't have any editable anything in our app! :)21:43
fiferboyUnless it only converts the editor widget itself, I'm not sure how that works21:43
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coldbootI'd suggest this for cutting down on lines: if (!w || !canUseIM(widget)) {\n return\n}21:44
fiferboycoldboot: I was just following the code, it is done in two separate blocks elsewhere in that file21:44
coldbootah ok21:45
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wazdfiferboy: heya Andrew :)21:50
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fiferboyhey wazd, how's it going?21:51
wazdfiferboy: spent 3 days with my friend that was telling me that Qt rocks :D21:51
fiferboyHe is right!21:51
wazdfiferboy: :)21:52
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fiferboyIt even has a good tool for you - a GUI designer so you don't have to mock things up in PS21:52
wazdfiferboy: yep, I've played with it :)21:53
wazdfiferboy: looked awesome :) But to be fair, GTK has Glade ;)21:53
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fiferboywazd: I could probably find a few dialogs that could use a good UI tweaking21:54
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wazdfiferboy: he told me that Designer is available even for Windows which is really good21:57
fiferboywazd: Yep, it works great in Windows21:57
lcukfiferboy, does windows qt have all the maemoisms enabled21:59
lcukie does it know about the maemo specific classes21:59
fiferboylcuk: For my programming I haven't needed to change anything in order to switch between a Windows compile, Linux compile, and Maemo compile22:00
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lcukyou have a bird watching db application dont you22:01
fiferboyExcept for some install locations in the pro file, I don't think I use HILDON defs at all22:01
fiferboylcuk: Yes, using sqlite22:01
lcukand does entire thing work nicely and suit being ran wherever, or have you had to make alterations to get it workable in maemo itself22:02
lcukie dialog sizes and locations etc22:02
fiferboyI designed the dialogs to be no bigger than 480x640 so it could run at different resolutions, but gui design has definitely been the biggest challenge22:03
lcukor did you write it specifically for maemo in the first place22:03
fiferboymaemo was my primary thought, but it runs equally well in Windows or Linux22:04
lcukyeah - you came the right way :)22:04
fiferboyI don't think the UI is hampered much by being designed for a small screen22:04
lcuktheres 10x more problems trying to squash something down22:04
fiferboyIt would DEFINITELY be harder to adapts a desktop app to a NIT22:04
* lcuk nods22:05
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fiferboyI have all my dialogs contained in a scroll area so when the keyboard pops up you can still view and access all the fields22:06
lcukheh, no doubt you made that kinetic too :D22:06
lcukdoes the kb pop, or slide on?22:06
fiferboyAt first, but now it is kinetic all on it's own22:06
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fiferboyIt pops up, same as regular22:07
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fiferboyIt is VERY cool to use the exact same code for three platforms22:07
lcukheh im just rebuilding the dialog stuff in lb, for the elements that dont zoom in they need selectable start point22:08
kkrustyqwerty12_N810: vagalume is awesome22:08
lcukyeah fiferboy ;) but then again, native c code can be quite cross platform too22:08
qwerty12_N810kkrusty: Agreed. :)22:08
kkrustyqwerty12_N810: thanks for telling me about it22:08
fiferboyYep, but the GUI portion is usually the toughest22:08
lcukthe only thing i can see qt cross platform as winning at is symbian/maemo22:10
lcukmost of the time, you wouldnt really use the same app on desktop as on handheld22:10
lcukhas qt got multitouch support, or even twotouch that gtk has?22:11
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fiferboylcuk: I think it is being worked on by the qt-kinetic team22:12
* lcuk has a really nice simple effect in mind22:13
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lcukfiferboy, did you write your bird app to take otu with you, or just as something to playwith22:16
fiferboylcuk: I originally wanted something to take along with me, but it is equally useful to look things up later22:17
lcukwill be better with the next device when you can take a picture directly22:17
lcukits a bit crap using n8x0 camera lol22:17
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fiferboyJust need to be able to zoom to a 35mm equivalent of 300mm :)22:21
pablowhere i find documentation for Maemo 5 and QT ?22:21
lcukfiferboy, you lost me there lol, not a camera head, but know having one on the back will be better than none ;)22:22
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fiferboyI was hoping the back camera would let me do bird photography ;)22:22
lcuki like to go to the beach and photograph all the boobys22:24
fiferboylcuk: Blue-footed?22:24
lcukdepends if they have flipflops on22:24
lcuktheres actually loads of different kinds of boobys22:25
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qwerty12_N810lcuk: *cough* blue tit *cough*22:26
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lcukdont see many bluetits round here22:26
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Great Tit22:26
lcukwhen i was on holiday tho, there were loads of great tits22:27
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qwerty12_N810"The Great Tit is a popular garden bird due to its acrobatic performances when feeding on nuts"22:28
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lcukwatch out tho, they build their nests within a hole in some wood22:29
lcuki darent click the link on wikpedia: Great Tit videos22:29
* fiferboy laughs22:29
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lcukfiferboy, so, your database contains info about each of these:
lcukor is it a worldwide factbook?22:30
lcukor is it just entries you have collected and inserted manually22:31
fiferboyThere are 10331 species in the database, and 701 different locations to select from22:31
lcuki gather you have filtering and searching tools in there22:31
fiferboyI create a list with a suitable location (as specific as possible to limit the number of species) and record sightings22:32
fiferboyLots of filtering and searching22:32
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fiferboyThe tablet handles most local database operations pretty well, although a list with 10000 entries will take some time22:32
lcukyou have been to the 701 locations? or is this an evolving database thats existed BQ (before qt..)(22:32
lcukyeah no doubt22:33
lcuki found a nice optimization for my lists when i started looking at optimizations22:33
_Mayito_who can help me to flash my tablet n810 please ?22:33
lcuk_Mayito_, i think theres a really simple wiki page22:33
infobothmm... flash is For an EEPROM (flash) programmer that can handle any chip except +12V ones, go to, or a proprietary format for online animations by Macromedia. However "GPL Flash" has now been released @, or wget, or ap22:33
infobotsomebody said flashing was
lcuk(the second one)22:34
fiferboyluck: A global list of locations each with their own species checklist22:34
_Mayito_lcuk, thank you ... I did it, but I did something wrong ... that is why I need help22:34
lcukspeak up then, try to be as clear as possible (and concise) and if someone knows they will try to help :22:34
lcukfiferboy, have you put all 700 locations in22:35
fiferboyI haven't spent much time optimizing yet22:35
lcukor did you find the db already populated/convert it from another source?22:35
fiferboylcuk: Yes, they are all in the database22:35
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X-Fade_Mayito_: I helps if you explain what the actual problem is.22:36
X-Fade_Mayito_: Instead of saying I need help.22:36
_Mayito_X-Fade, I am trying to flash my tablet to boot from the external SDCard22:36
X-Fade_Mayito_: Yes? And?22:37
_Mayito_I did follow the little wiki document web page about how to boot from a flash card22:37
_Mayito_although ... I did endup flashing the internal card (2Gb)22:37
_Mayito_and I dont know what I did wrong to be honest22:38
_Mayito_I just reset from factory my tablet22:38
lcukfiferboy, cool, are you planning on integrating with the webservice to push up reports?22:38
_Mayito_and I dont want to screw up again22:38
fiferboyluck: There is an eBird webservice that records sighting locations and frequencies, but I haven't looked in to integration yet22:38
_Mayito_x-fade: I already made my partitions in my external SDCard again22:39
lcukat least you have something to build towards in future if you desire :)22:39
_Mayito_x-fade: so, from there I think I will need someone to guide me22:39
fiferboyI would also like to scrape updates from the checklists at avibird, but I haven't looked at that yet either22:39
lcukim just interested because having a good fully capable data driven qt app on the devices would be great.  it also gives people ideas for other markets and subjects using similar engine22:40
lcukhave you written it (or attempted) in any other toolkits before?22:41
lcukor was this something to get your teeth into on qt specifically22:41
fiferboyWhen I had my Zaurus I used a locally server MySQL, PHP solution22:42
fiferboyWhen I first got my N810 I wrote a Gtk, XML solution22:43
fiferboyNow I have my Qt, sqlite solution22:43
fiferboySo javascript/html, c, c++ so far...22:43
lcukseems like we all do the same thing :)22:43
lcukits kindof your hello world then22:44
lcukdavid has evolved in same way with his shopper, ive done liqbase in anything with a cpu lol22:44
fiferboyYep.  This is the most refined solution so far22:44
lcukwe all evolve :)22:44
fiferboyThat's true22:45
lcuki keep wanting to put together pages showing evolution of apps22:45
fiferboyThat would be cool.  I could contribute screen shots22:45
lcukyou would show the evolution of your bird app - and what would add is some words about the difficulties and improvements you made and what facilitated them22:46
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lcukwe would need somewhere proper for it, its just something that keeps popping back into my head - one day..22:46
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fiferboyToolkit selection, data backend selection, primary factor being mobile and portable...22:47
lcukwell, you have mobile apps in your blood :)22:48
johnsqfiferboy: simple gtk, sqlite and ready.22:48
fiferboyFor some reason I never tried the Gtk/sqlite combination22:49
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lcukjohnsq, i actually think the php solution fiferboy came up with was more novel22:49
fiferboyI felt like there should be some Gtk API to dump a select statement directly into a table display (like there is with Qt)22:49
lcukhow fast was it rendering wise on the zaurus - did it compare speed wise with maemo desktop apps for instance22:49
lcukor was it nowhere near22:49
fiferboylcuk: I was just going to stick with that, but I couldn't find a decent LAMP stack when I came to Maemo22:50
lcukits not just lamp though for local22:50
johnsqlcuk: I just thought the same http with cgi should be also fine22:50
lcukyou need a good local html renderer too22:50
fiferboylcuk: Speed was fine, I never noticed a problem.  but I only displayed 30 records per page.22:50
lcukjohnsq, if you have a hammer, everything is a nail22:50
lcukhhh no continuous list22:51
lcukthats always my hatred of web22:51
lcukbut i cant blame them really22:51
fiferboyI used the list for a different purpose, and I am pretty sure I made the "records/page" configurable22:52
lcukyeah, but sitll its paged22:53
lcuki have had to make same compromise22:53
Jaffalcuk: Any idea which package section an artificial horizon would fit best into? Probably one of graphics/navigation/science or utilities?22:53
lcuki decided to only show the next 2 years in calendar lol22:53
fiferboyActually, my father-in-law uses my PHP/MySQL list on his Windows computer22:53
fiferboyI'll have to install my Qt list for him one of these days...22:53
lcukjaffa, user/kickasscoolstuff  or if thats not there, user/graphics is a high traffic zone for cool stuff22:54
lcukjaffa, we dont have /user/techdemo yet22:55
konttori_what is horizon?22:55
lcukbut we should22:55
lcukheh konttori_ perking at the thought of missing something cool22:55
Jaffakonttori_: Little accelerometer playground22:55
lcukkonttori_ has been playing with the accelerometer as well22:56
konttori_Jaffa. nice22:56
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konttori_yeah. I just converted ukmp to switch between portrait/landscape with it22:56
Jaffakonttori_: nice22:57
* lcuk is waiting for shake to shuffle tracks22:57
konttori_Hmm... could do.22:57
konttori_Hmm.. nice idea22:57
konttori_smack on right side for next track22:57
konttori_smack to left side for previous22:57
lcukhope nokia supply a wrist strap lol22:57
lcukmake it disablable22:58
lcukor joggers wont be able to use it22:58
johnsqkonttori_: and while you walk you hear only clicks22:58
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lcuktheres so many uses for an accelerometer22:59
lcuk"doofus, hold the camera still, you are trying to take a picture"22:59
konttori_johnsq: lol. good point22:59
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konttori_hey, any good idea how to get the next and previous button events from bt headset?22:59
lcukdont they get mapped by the driver to left/right or something?23:00
johnsqkonttori_: you should get them over input / event -> x11 -> app23:00
konttori_sure, while it's in foreground23:00
konttori_how about when it's not?23:00
lcukglobal hotkey23:00
konttori_thanks. I'll need X11 packages now for python.23:03
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konttori_By the way, what is the way to get to task switcher from an application?23:21
konttori_As in, I have a button in ukmp that I want to use to get the user back to switcher.23:21
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Stskeepswe don't know much about task switching in fremantle yet :P23:21
Stskeepsusually we use home button23:22
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qwerty12_N810If this was diablo... "dbus-send --type=signal --system /com/nokia/mce/signal"23:24
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Macerdo i have to do something special in order to browse the web over a vpn?23:52
Maceri can seem to do everything but that23:52
Macerit kind of sucks23:53
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jason__Macer, there shouldn't be any problems browsing the web - can you ping/telnet internet servers?23:54
Macerit's not a dns thing23:55
Maceroh wait...23:55
Maceroh.. i guess not23:55
Macerwtf... is it not using a gateway or something? :(23:55
MacerRequest timed out.23:56
Macerbut i can use my internal network23:56
Macerlike the smb stuff and everything works23:56
Macerand it is gettign ip numbers off the local dns23:56
jason__So you can get out to the internet using ping?  I'm not clear on your situation23:56
Macerno i can't23:57
Macer       5023:58
Macerwtf.. it is using itself as a gateway23:58
Macerhow the hell do i change that? :) i want it to use and can't find an option under the vpn connection to change the gateway23:58
jason__what does `route` give you?23:59
Macerthat is what route gives me23:59

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