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| Jaffa | lbt: docmaster, bugmaster, webmaster & debmaster | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| Jaffa | lbt: dneary, andre, X-Fade and jeremiah | 00:05 |
| lbt | ta :) | 00:05 |
| Jaffa | Additional work is contracted out to companies like Nemein to work on the maemo.org website (e.g. bergie) | 00:05 |
| lbt | was thinking about what we need as a community | 00:06 |
| lbt | what we lack that is | 00:06 |
| lbt | and flashmaster sprang to mind | 00:06 |
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| * Jaffa beds on that thought. | 00:06 | |
| lbt | a graphic designer | 00:07 |
| lbt | 'night | 00:07 |
| Stskeeps | flashmaster? maemo.org flashmobs?;) | 00:07 |
| lbt | heh | 00:07 |
| lbt | Jamie said | 00:07 |
| lbt | Oh and can I say, HUGE potential in harvesting open source developers | 00:07 |
| lbt | to develop for Nokia in QT for not only Internet Tablets but Phones too! | 00:07 |
| lbt | and I thought ... "yeah but it'll look crap" | 00:08 |
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| lbt | look at what benefits we get from having a graphics guy on Mer | 00:08 |
| Stskeeps | the artists exist in the community but noone to manage them | 00:08 |
| lbt | wondered about sponsoring him ... and yes harnessing | 00:09 |
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| RST38h | lbt: Can't get people to develop for a platform that completely changes with each new release though | 00:16 |
| lbt | sure you can... look at windows | 00:16 |
| RST38h | lbt: Windows does not change with each new release | 00:16 |
| lbt | it goes blue regularly | 00:16 |
| RST38h | My Win 3.1 code still runs in XP with minnor changes | 00:17 |
| RST38h | and how is this related with platform APIs changing? | 00:17 |
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| lbt | dunno? I was talking about graphics... you? | 00:17 |
| RST38h | I was talking about that huge harvesting potential =) | 00:18 |
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| lbt | ah, gotcha | 00:18 |
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| javispedro | the autobuilder IS slow, how's the machine? | 00:19 |
| Proteous | slowwwww | 00:20 |
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| lcuk | its not slow, it just starts from scratch each time | 00:20 |
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| lcuk | you have overclocked your expectations | 00:20 |
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| javispedro | it IS slow too | 00:21 |
| RST38h | <sleep> | 00:21 |
| lbt | night RST38h | 00:21 |
| javispedro | now the world is going to end because omweather will not get pushed soon enough | 00:22 |
| lbt | omweather... hmmm | 00:22 |
| javispedro | and all because it's going to spend 2 hours to build dosbox. my fault | 00:23 |
| Proteous | if you don't have the weather you don't have anything | 00:23 |
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| lbt | ah yes... depends on closed liblocation-dev | 00:24 |
| javispedro | if omweather is not fixed, at the current rates, tmo will get more posts about omweather than about qt | 00:24 |
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| javispedro | so guess which one is more important to the community :D | 00:24 |
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| xnt14 | http://xceleo.org/remoteaccess/ :) | 00:34 |
| xnt14 | oh crap wrong tab.... | 00:34 |
| xnt14 | ah well | 00:34 |
| xnt14 | it is password protected :P | 00:34 |
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| practisevoodoo | sorry guys im suffering a brain failure atm, what's the name of that video converter for maemo, the non-nokia one? | 01:16 |
| practisevoodoo | ah got it | 01:17 |
| nomis | practisevoodoo: tabletencode? | 01:18 |
| practisevoodoo | i was after this one http://xoomer.virgilio.it/sepaolo/n800vc/ | 01:18 |
| nomis | ah. | 01:18 |
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| javispedro | working omweather is on extras-devel! world is saved! | 01:21 |
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| javispedro | yes! lower temperatures for tomorrow! | 01:21 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | I don't need me an applet to tell me the lovely weather England has :D | 01:22 |
| javispedro | It's also a fine source of entertainment, specially for >4 day forecasts | 01:24 |
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| javispedro | erm | 01:25 |
| javispedro | seems the version is still not in good shape | 01:25 |
| javispedro | forecast for sunday = "heavy 0% precipitation" | 01:25 |
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| javispedro | and 0% relative humidity... I guess I'd better stay home | 01:26 |
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| javispedro | "weather data provided by (null)" yes, something is fishy | 01:28 |
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| andrea | upgrading from bora to diablo... Is it possible with a dist-upgrade or is it crazy? :-) | 02:41 |
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| b0unc3 | andrea: impossible | 02:43 |
| andrea | :] | 02:44 |
| andrea | what should be the correct way? Reflashing to os2008? | 02:44 |
| b0unc3 | yes, I think so | 02:44 |
| b0unc3 | andrea: ma sei italiano ? | 02:45 |
| andrea | b0unc3: sì! :D | 02:45 |
| b0unc3 | ottimo :) | 02:45 |
| andrea | alla faccia:) | 02:45 |
| andrea | b0unc3: il problema è omweather: la nuova versione è per diablo :-))) | 02:46 |
| andrea | non so se hanno intenzione di farne una anche per il vecchio bora | 02:46 |
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| javispedro | this reminds me. why is there not a autobuilder for the latest OS the N770 has access to? | 02:48 |
| javispedro | s/N770/770/ | 02:48 |
| infobot | javispedro meant: this reminds me. why is there not a autobuilder for the latest OS the 770 has access to? | 02:48 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Technically, if we're talking latest (os2008he), there is the chinook one :) | 02:50 |
| qwerty12_N810 | But http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/39352?do=post_view_flat didn't sound like it went far | 02:51 |
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| Macer | ok. i can't take it anymore | 04:03 |
| Macer | i'm going to have to roll the dice | 04:03 |
| Macer | and pre-order a touchbook | 04:03 |
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| Guest0324_233 | any complete tutorial for run a ''virtual'' complete n810 fully fonctionnal and operationnal on my ubuntu pc? | 04:50 |
| Guest0324_233 | like a real one but on the pc | 04:51 |
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| Guest0324_233 | UP? | 05:12 |
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| zhjawe | Does anyone know how to develop flash application in maemo? | 06:25 |
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| man_in_shack | the same way you'd develop one for any other platfrom | 06:27 |
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| zhjawe | man_in_shack: Hello,if I want to use gravity sensor in the flash application,what should I do? | 06:30 |
| man_in_shack | gravity sensor? | 06:31 |
| daniel32708 | Guys, do you know any wiki or instructions on how to reflash the OS on the n810, to later reinstall it but telling it to use the SD card? it really sux to only have the internal memory for apps, its not enough.... | 06:31 |
| SHADOW_V | daniel32708, chech on maemo.org there are afew | 06:32 |
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| zhjawe | man_in_shack:yes,the same as iphone. | 06:32 |
| SHADOW_V | aalso on internettablet talk | 06:33 |
| man_in_shack | zhjawe, what hardware? | 06:33 |
| GAN800 | ~flashing | 06:33 |
| infobot | flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 06:33 |
| GAN800 | ~boot-sd | 06:33 |
| infobot | boot-sd is, like, https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card | 06:33 |
| daniel32708 | thx guys | 06:34 |
| zhjawe | man_in_shack:in a virtual development environment on PC. | 06:35 |
| man_in_shack | i'm wondering what maemo-supported hardware has a gravity sensor | 06:36 |
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| GAN800 | RX-51 | 06:36 |
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| zhjawe | i am using midinux(imitate maemo) SDK. | 06:39 |
| SHADOW_V | is there a browser for maemo that is close to the iphone or the palm pre speed wise | 06:39 |
| SHADOW_V | i know there is tear but tear still doesnt compete | 06:40 |
| GAN800 | SHADOW_V, the Pre has, like, 3x the CPU. . . . | 06:40 |
| SHADOW_V | heh the original iphone doesnt have 3x the cpu | 06:41 |
| GAN800 | Yeah, and it sure aint faster than MicroB, either. | 06:41 |
| SHADOW_V | hmm the only think i have used is the itouch 2g | 06:42 |
| SHADOW_V | which is way faster | 06:42 |
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| SHADOW_V | or is it that unfair of a comparison | 06:44 |
| GAN800 | depends how subjective your website selection is. | 06:44 |
| SHADOW_V | uh mythweb google sites slashdot digg gizmodo | 06:45 |
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| SHADOW_V | those types of sites | 06:45 |
| GAN800 | All VERY js heavy. | 06:45 |
| GAN800 | Which is where MicroB trips over itself. | 06:45 |
| SHADOW_V | so thats the problem then | 06:45 |
| GAN800 | Yes. | 06:45 |
| SHADOW_V | well i have been using tear more | 06:45 |
| SHADOW_V | which is faster i have to admit | 06:45 |
| GAN800 | FF3a1's js performance was . . . bad. | 06:46 |
| SHADOW_V | ff3.5 is an improvement | 06:46 |
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| GAN800 | Yeah, unfortunately merging MicroB with trunk is non-trivial. | 06:48 |
| GAN800 | Thus, Tear. | 06:48 |
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| SHADOW_V | GAN800, what do you mean tear is based on mcrob | 06:50 |
| GAN800 | Tear is using a recent WebKit. | 06:50 |
| SHADOW_V | thats what i though | 06:50 |
| GAN800 | and it's the only viable upgrade path from MicroB. | 06:50 |
| SHADOW_V | ah ok yeah | 06:51 |
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| SHADOW_V | is there a viable way to watch mythtv recordings on the tablets? | 06:56 |
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| xnt14[server] | ~seen b-man | 07:13 |
| infobot | b-man <n=b-man@pool-71-124-32-204.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 47d 5h 1m 41s ago, saying: 'wtf'. | 07:13 |
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| xnt14[server] | ~seen b-man16 | 07:13 |
| infobot | b-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 14h 3m 48s ago, saying: ':P'. | 07:13 |
| xnt14[server] | okay...xD | 07:13 |
| * xnt14[server] just flashed his dads nslu2 with linux and is killing himself trying to get it to mount his flashdrive..... | 07:14 | |
| xnt14[server] | %mk.link xnt14[work] | local | 07:15 |
| xnt14[server] | oops im supposed to do that via pm :P | 07:15 |
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| SHADOW_V | i tried to use dialcentral on maemo and the error i am getting is iter must be gtktree1ter | 07:17 |
| * FireFox16 pokes xnt14 | 07:24 | |
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| FireFox16 | damn :( | 07:26 |
| * FireFox16 needs to go XP | 07:26 | |
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| Macer | i'm incredibly anxious to order a touch book | 08:05 |
| Macer | i think i am going to order one soon | 08:05 |
| Macer | mer developers... | 08:06 |
| Macer | http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html | 08:06 |
| * Macer grins | 08:06 | |
| Luke-Jr | you have GOT to be kidding me | 08:06 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr: what?! | 08:06 |
| Macer | :-P | 08:06 |
| Macer | chrome os has arm support | 08:06 |
| Macer | haha | 08:06 |
| Macer | would go nice with the touch book if the stock OS sucks | 08:06 |
| Macer | which i'm sure it does | 08:06 |
| RST38h | Macer: It isn't a joke, right? | 08:07 |
| Macer | it's not april :) | 08:07 |
| RST38h | That was the first thing I checked =) | 08:08 |
| Luke-Jr | Google sucks | 08:08 |
| Luke-Jr | seriously | 08:08 |
| RST38h | ok. | 08:08 |
| Macer | haha | 08:09 |
| Macer | android is awesome | 08:09 |
| Macer | well... on a phone at least.. i don't see why anybody would want to run it on an actual computer | 08:09 |
| RST38h | The article isn't talking about Android | 08:09 |
| Macer | i know it's not | 08:10 |
| Macer | it's talking about a new google lightweight os | 08:10 |
| Macer | for x86 and arms | 08:10 |
| Macer | :) | 08:10 |
| Macer | i was just retorting Luke-Jr's mindless "google sucks" comment | 08:10 |
| Macer | also staring at the mer guys because this is going to put them out of business unless they do somethign amazing with mer | 08:11 |
| Macer | this atom gets hot | 08:12 |
| Macer | then again thinking back to my n800.. it got kind of hot too | 08:12 |
| RST38h | Macer: Ah, do not pay attention to him =) | 08:12 |
| RST38h | Luke-Jr: Do you like Windows, Luke? | 08:12 |
| Macer | lol | 08:12 |
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| Macer | i think he is still reading the article basking in the glory of google | 08:14 |
| Macer | haha | 08:14 |
| Macer | i think android is pretty good | 08:14 |
| Macer | compared to most phone OSes | 08:14 |
| RST38h | except of course for reliance on java | 08:15 |
| Macer | minus the fact that the "market" is a free for all | 08:15 |
| Macer | i don't know of many phone operating systems that don't rely on java | 08:15 |
| RST38h | like...all of them? | 08:15 |
| RST38h | Symbian, WinMobile... | 08:15 |
| Macer | heh | 08:15 |
| Macer | yup | 08:15 |
| Macer | i suppose java can be made small | 08:16 |
| RST38h | Some custom solutions historically relied on Java (S40, Moto platforms) but not any more | 08:16 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | oh yes... even non-existent | 08:16 |
| Macer | and small means less flash requied internally | 08:16 |
| Macer | yeah but most of the apps for symbian are still largely java based | 08:17 |
| RST38h | Macer: not really | 08:17 |
| RST38h | Macer: I mean, there is plenty of MIDP games, indeed, but most of the actual apps are native | 08:17 |
| Macer | most of the ones i have used were ;) | 08:17 |
| Macer | winmobile is another beast | 08:17 |
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| Macer | RST38h: yeah i suppose | 08:19 |
| Macer | there was a midp ssh client i suppose | 08:19 |
| Macer | :) | 08:19 |
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| Macer | nothing beats java ssh | 08:20 |
| Macer | haha | 08:20 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: it wasn't mindless, I just didn't care to elaborate. ☺ | 08:20 |
| Macer | lol | 08:20 |
| Macer | hi Luke-Jr ! | 08:21 |
| Luke-Jr | and yes, Java is the biggest problem I have with Android | 08:21 |
| Luke-Jr | that alone makes it suck IMO | 08:21 |
| Macer | java ftw :) | 08:21 |
| Luke-Jr | and Google can't code for crap | 08:21 |
| Luke-Jr | that's my biggest problem with Google | 08:21 |
| Macer | yeah but they made a nice lookign phone os | 08:21 |
| Macer | badly coded or not | 08:21 |
| Luke-Jr | nice looking is irrelevant. anyone can make something nice looking. | 08:22 |
| Macer | well. i've had my g1 for a while and can't say i've had many problems with the os in general | 08:22 |
| Pavlov | Luke-Jr: thats clearly not true | 08:22 |
| Pavlov | have you used linux? :) | 08:22 |
| Macer | haha | 08:22 |
| Macer | Pavlov: i didn't want to say it | 08:22 |
| Luke-Jr | Pavlov: I don't have a computer that doesn't rely on Linux. | 08:23 |
| RST38h | OMWeather stopped working. Hm | 08:23 |
| Luke-Jr | RST38h: this is why I intentionally neglect to upgrade it :þ | 08:23 |
| Macer | RST38h: omweather always stops workig | 08:24 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr: i think his point is that most open sourced stuff is badly coded | 08:24 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: ok, true enough | 08:25 |
| Luke-Jr | but I have to settle for *something* | 08:25 |
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| Macer | i mean i'm no coder myself but it is obvious when you have absolutely no type of control over code then stuff just horribly put together is introduced with a complete lack of quality control but as long as it still works and nobody noticed.. then nobody cares :) | 08:25 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: open source has plenty of control over code | 08:25 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr: lies :) haha | 08:25 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: there is a single person who needs to approve every line of code changed in Linux | 08:26 |
| Macer | and plus... | 08:26 |
| Macer | yeah. i was abou tto say | 08:26 |
| Macer | well. that is linux :) not the apps applied to distros | 08:26 |
| Macer | from what i've heard. compiz is disgustingly coded but it still works | 08:26 |
| Luke-Jr | this is why I refuse to use GTK | 08:26 |
| Macer | and the pressure is more so to introduce more eye candy than possibly break something that "works" even if it is badly coded | 08:26 |
| Pavlov | compbiz is.. yeah | 08:27 |
| Luke-Jr | Qt4 is a rare example of good code, and it's under tight control | 08:27 |
| Luke-Jr | and then there is KDE, the more bazaar-like Qt | 08:27 |
| Luke-Jr | KDE sucks | 08:27 |
| Luke-Jr | Cathedral vs bazaar, clearly the cathedral wins | 08:27 |
| Pavlov | Qt code is kinda messy too | 08:28 |
| Pavlov | but most all code is | 08:28 |
| Macer | but you say google has bad code.. :) i think their base code for the OS is probably good but ocne it is released to the masses you get a ton of crap from people who slap things together just to get things working | 08:29 |
| Luke-Jr | Qt was also infected by commercialism | 08:29 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr: er.. qt started closed and commercial | 08:29 |
| Macer | heh | 08:29 |
| Luke-Jr | exactly | 08:29 |
| Luke-Jr | good code comes from INTERESTED developers with TIGHT control for quality | 08:29 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr: and tha tis the fault with linux | 08:29 |
| Luke-Jr | … | 08:30 |
| Macer | people argue about things and BAM... | 08:30 |
| Luke-Jr | Linux is just that | 08:30 |
| Macer | a new distro is born :) | 08:30 |
| Macer | haha | 08:30 |
| RST38h | Macer: That distro is called BSD. | 08:30 |
| Luke-Jr | … | 08:30 |
| Macer | RST38h: hey | 08:30 |
| Macer | fbsd is the shit :) | 08:30 |
| Macer | haha | 08:30 |
| RST38h | Works-for-me. | 08:30 |
| Macer | opensolaris ftw | 08:30 |
| Macer | even if it uses gnome by default | 08:31 |
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| Guest6112_925 | Scratchbox bind mount for user not present. E: Start scratchbox service with 'sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start'. | 08:32 |
| Guest6112_925 | so i made it | 08:32 |
| Macer | omg my son is a nut | 08:32 |
| Macer | wtf is ee? | 08:32 |
| Proteous | peanut? | 08:32 |
| Guest6112_925 | but i can't install Fr. sdk last beta... | 08:32 |
| RST38h | Macer: He is also quoting Cathedral and Bazaar aloud? | 08:32 |
| RST38h | EE is Estonia | 08:32 |
| Proteous | almond? | 08:32 |
| Macer | oh | 08:33 |
| Proteous | brazil? | 08:33 |
| Macer | hm... | 08:33 |
| Luke-Jr | Eee is a netbook | 08:34 |
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| Macer | Luke-Jr: this asipireone sucks | 08:37 |
| Macer | :) | 08:37 |
| Macer | it's an xp version | 08:37 |
| Luke-Jr | fail | 08:37 |
| Macer | yeah | 08:37 |
| Macer | it sucks | 08:37 |
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| Macer | after i give this back to the person who let me use it... i'm going to pre-order a touchbook | 08:38 |
| Macer | and make sure my bank will insure the money if i was conned haha | 08:38 |
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| Luke-Jr | Macer: why woudl they do that? | 08:39 |
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| Guest1742_443 | Scratchbox devkit debian-etch not found. E: Please complete scratchbox installation first. | 08:39 |
| Guest1742_443 | any solution? | 08:39 |
| RST38h | Install debian-etch? | 08:40 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr: i will just say some spoof company stole my money without my permission | 08:40 |
| Macer | and that i must be a victim of identity theft :) | 08:40 |
| Macer | haha | 08:40 |
| RST38h | Macer: ebusiness? =) | 08:40 |
| Macer | it works.. it's only $400.. they'd have no problem | 08:40 |
| Macer | i make that in interest in a month off my other accounts haha | 08:40 |
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| Macer | the goal is to set up my tor servers and issue out touch books to start an international drug empire | 08:41 |
| Macer | with monthly ssh key renewals and what not :) | 08:42 |
| Macer | n800s were the first choice but they kind of suck | 08:42 |
| Macer | took too long to tap at the keyboard... and the n800s and g1 qwerty keyboards take forever too | 08:42 |
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| Macer | other drug empires are seriously too low tech .. i want to capitalize on an outdated market with collaberation and technology upgrades to a profitable industry | 08:45 |
| * Macer grins | 08:45 | |
| Guest1742_443 | no RST38H - debian-etch is not in fremantle repo | 08:45 |
| Macer | n800s/n810s | 08:45 |
| Guest1742_443 | http://pastebin.com/m4f41e9cd | 08:47 |
| RST38h | Get it from Diablo repo then | 08:48 |
| * RST38h wonders what happens if netbooks go out of fashion by the time Google releases its OS | 08:50 | |
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| Guest1742_443 | not in diablo too | 08:53 |
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| finn | took a picture of a google car in hong kong 2 days ago | 08:55 |
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| Shadow_M | anyone here stream mythtv recordings to their tablet | 08:57 |
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| Shadow_M | i am trying to install mobile myth but dependeancies arent met | 09:14 |
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| Shadow_M | how can i paste using xchat on maemo | 09:16 |
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| slonopotamus | Shadow_M, the same way you paste everywhere else | 09:17 |
| slonopotamus | maybe you wanted to ask 'how can i copy text into clipboard'? | 09:17 |
| Shadow_M | ctrl c right | 09:18 |
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| slonopotamus | Shadow_M, on tablet, just select text. it's put into clipboard automatically | 09:18 |
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| Shadow_M | copy and paste isnt working in tear | 09:20 |
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| slonopotamus | Shadow_M, then fix it/file a bugreport :) | 09:22 |
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| Shadow_M | ok slonopotamus tear doesnt have copy | 09:29 |
| Shadow_M | http://mythtvnews.com/2007/09/26/maemomyth-a-frontend-for-mythtv-on-nokia-n800/ | 09:29 |
| Shadow_M | thats what i am trying to instgall | 09:29 |
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| Shadow__X | whats the distrobution current n810's run | 09:42 |
| Shadow__X | iam looking at some isntalls that have bora or chincook | 09:43 |
| Luke-Jr | Shadow__X: Maemo 4.1, Mer, or Gentoo | 09:45 |
| Luke-Jr | maybe Ubuntu too | 09:45 |
| Luke-Jr | depending on b-man's random generator | 09:46 |
| Shadow__X | hmm | 09:46 |
| Shadow__X | i just want to beable to watch my mythtv recordings on my tablet and make it somewhat useful again | 09:46 |
| Shadow__X | but i cant fulfill the dependancies of this | 09:46 |
| Shadow__X | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mtv/ | 09:46 |
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| tank-man | Shadow__X, I think there is a mythtv plugin to stream videos thru a web server in flash | 10:29 |
| tank-man | mythweb | 10:29 |
| Shadow__X | yeah there is | 10:29 |
| Shadow__X | but | 10:29 |
| Shadow__X | full screen doesnt work well | 10:29 |
| Shadow__X | i wish the n810 had a better cpu | 10:29 |
| Shadow__X | :( | 10:29 |
| Shadow__X | most things that i do keep pointing to that | 10:29 |
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| Shadow__X | tank-man, what are your thoughts of this | 10:42 |
| Shadow__X | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mtv/ | 10:42 |
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| RST38h | yawn | 10:44 |
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| tank-man | it says beta, what else is there to know | 10:51 |
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| Shadow__X | that i couldnt install it because of a huge list of dependencies that wherent met i guess thats not a good idea | 10:55 |
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| Macer | heh | 11:05 |
| Macer | i was reading the rest of that google os article | 11:05 |
| Macer | They want their data to be accessible to them wherever they are and not have to worry about losing their computer or forgetting to back up files. | 11:05 |
| RST38h | I had this since...mmm...1993? | 11:05 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: ping | 11:19 |
| timeless_mbp | pong | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | i have a strange locale problem with my 0.15 image with the strings included, something you can help me track down if i upload a vmdk? | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | as in, the strings are there for sure but it doesn | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | 't pick them up, even though LANG is correct | 11:20 |
| timeless_mbp | sure | 11:20 |
| Macer | RST38h: had what? | 11:21 |
| Macer | sorry. drifted off to another # | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-x86-generic-image-v0.15testing4.vmdk.zip | 11:21 |
| Macer | hehe.. i just thought it was similar to a book about "cloud computing" | 11:21 |
| Macer | where the author stated that all computers will lose their individuality and just turn into terminals for the cloud | 11:22 |
| Macer | google is becomming skynet | 11:22 |
| RST38h | Macer: had my data accessible wherever I was | 11:22 |
| Macer | RST38h: yeah but i think the google concept is that they store it all on their servers | 11:23 |
| Macer | i'm guessing a sync every so often like a roaming profile where everything is constantly being pumped to their datacenters | 11:23 |
| RST38h | Macer: never needed Google for that, still do not | 11:23 |
| Macer | RST38h: i'm sure you don't... but the concept they are trying to use reminded me of the book | 11:23 |
| Macer | :) | 11:24 |
| Macer | which is true. sure you will have the minorties that try to fight the system.. but in the end... | 11:24 |
| Macer | billions will flock to google | 11:24 |
| RST38h | Well that is because it is exactly what cloud computing is about | 11:24 |
| Macer | and what if google is the next enron | 11:24 |
| Macer | ? | 11:24 |
| RST38h | Macer: nobody will flock to google for this | 11:24 |
| Macer | haha | 11:24 |
| RST38h | Google is not where the death of civilization will come from =) | 11:25 |
| Macer | RST38h: so says you :-P | 11:25 |
| RST38h | And you do not need my crystal balls to see that | 11:25 |
| Macer | lol. but the author had a very interesting point on the fact that computers are devolving into terminals | 11:25 |
| RST38h | They are not. Only in his brain. | 11:26 |
| Macer | and losing all individuality | 11:26 |
| RST38h | There is a lot more web browsing of course. But computers are not devloving into terminals. Last guys who bet on that lost money. | 11:26 |
| Macer | not really.. millions use flickr | 11:26 |
| Macer | :) and twitter | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: unzipping :) | 11:26 |
| RST38h | Twitter is no more than a web based IRC | 11:26 |
| Macer | storing billions of photos and videos on places like that | 11:26 |
| RST38h | Flickr is basically an online gallery | 11:27 |
| Macer | and careless with their local storage | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, a bunch of google apps just left Beta :) | 11:27 |
| Macer | because the photos will always be on flickr | 11:27 |
| Macer | haha | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | and google also annouced Google Chrome OS | 11:27 |
| RST38h | And I am 100% sure that for each photo published on flicker there is al ocal copy somewhere | 11:27 |
| Macer | timeless_mbp: what about gmail? | 11:27 |
| Macer | haha | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | Macer: including GMail | 11:27 |
| Macer | RST38h: you can't be 100% sure about that | 11:27 |
| RST38h | Macer: Of course, but I am "pretty" sure :) | 11:27 |
| Macer | i am sure of the millions that use it that someone accidently wiped the photos | 11:27 |
| RST38h | Macer: You upload photos to flicker not to store them there. You do it to present them to others | 11:28 |
| Macer | :) tell that to joe dell | 11:28 |
| Macer | haha | 11:28 |
| * RST38h is not fit for the role of Cpt Obvious | 11:29 | |
| Macer | lol | 11:29 |
| Macer | either way it goes though. if google has a successful run with this google os which i am almost sure it will | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: i'm grabbing lunch | 11:29 |
| RST38h | So all this idea of getting exclusive hold of users' data is just somebody's wet corporate dream | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll look in an hour or so | 11:29 |
| Macer | then it is just one more step closer to use being borg | 11:29 |
| Macer | haha | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: alright, no rush - there's some deeper problems i'm working on too so | 11:30 |
| Macer | RST38h: google has become very good at it | 11:30 |
| Macer | they store their personal email. millions use their docs apps and store stuff there | 11:30 |
| RST38h | Maybe. | 11:30 |
| Macer | some companies "collaberate" on google | 11:30 |
| RST38h | Maybe^2. | 11:30 |
| Macer | sharing folders etc | 11:30 |
| Macer | no it isn't maybe. someone i know said his company uses google for stuff like this | 11:31 |
| RST38h | That would be prohibited by our corporate security policies | 11:31 |
| Macer | they were debating whether or not to use something local | 11:31 |
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| Macer | RST38h: well. some companies aren't creating new nuclear weapons :-P | 11:31 |
| Macer | haha | 11:31 |
| RST38h | We ain't, but this kind of behavior is still prohibited by security policies | 11:32 |
| RST38h | And rightly so, I should say | 11:32 |
| Macer | in the end they noticed that instead of investing money in their own servers why not just use google to do things like this? | 11:32 |
| Macer | and save tons of money in the process :) | 11:32 |
| RST38h | Ah, the Architengi character just continues trolling on and on | 11:32 |
| * RST38h considers closing in for a kill | 11:33 | |
| Macer | er.. is it possible to troll a conversation you started? :) | 11:33 |
| RST38h | Of course it is | 11:33 |
| RST38h | You troll the forum, not a conversation | 11:33 |
| Macer | well. anyways. i just thought it reminded me of the book about cloud computing and the eventual loss of the "individual computer" | 11:34 |
| RST38h | Macer: Because you do not want Google, the CIA, the FBI, and whoever can hack that web site to see your stuff. Even if it is innocent. | 11:34 |
| Macer | RST38h: oh i agree | 11:34 |
| pupnik | or a competitor | 11:34 |
| Macer | but some may not :) | 11:34 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Any of the above may be employed by a competitor | 11:34 |
| Macer | RST38h: in the world of co espionage... your boss might be employed by a competitor | 11:35 |
| Macer | heh | 11:35 |
| RST38h | Macer: Then I do not care, not my concern | 11:35 |
| Macer | haha | 11:35 |
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| * RST38h only cares about his personal integrity, the rest can do what they wish | 11:36 | |
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| wazd | hello maemo | 11:51 |
| RST38h | moo wazd | 11:52 |
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| florian | good monring | 11:59 |
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| lardman | morning | 12:04 |
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| RST38h | moorning lardman | 12:23 |
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| Stskeeps | Mikko Jaakkola | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | ... | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | damnit | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | die paste | 12:26 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Finnish hit list? :> | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | global? ;p | 12:27 |
| RST38h | So, what has this guy done? =) | 12:27 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 12:39 |
| RichiH | is there a way to factory-reset a n810 _completely_ including the internal flash storage? the internal storage is full with crap, the file manager claims half of which is copy protected and does not see the other half when i enter the actual directories... strangely enough, i do not see that | 12:40 |
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| RichiH | s/that/those/ files when attaching the n810 to a computer either | 12:40 |
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| Stskeeps | re-flash it and then format memory card from it? | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: You can format the internal storage from the file manager. | 12:41 |
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| lcuk | mornin maemo \o | 12:57 |
| lcuk | jaffa, did you o any more testing on your flightsim | 12:58 |
| lcuk | "fly jaffa, the juicy airline" | 12:58 |
| lcuk | jaffa, i hope your flightsim is going to include remotely accessible telemetry data | 12:59 |
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| RichiH | X-Fade: where/how? | 13:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: starting ... | 13:16 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: sadly, my primary workstation is having issues w/ its zpool :( | 13:16 |
| timeless_mbp | zpool history is aborting! | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | auch :P | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | i have a osol in a virtualbox right now and real HDs.. it actually works quite decently | 13:16 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: steady on boy ;-) | 13:17 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway... what am i looking at? | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: you're looking at a mer setup where en_US.utf8 is the standard locale, and enus strings are installed | 13:17 |
| timeless_mbp | lang seems right | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | now, why isn't it getting picked up? :) | 13:18 |
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| Stskeeps | i checked, not even app manager has it | 13:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok | 13:20 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, so... the file itself seems ok | 13:20 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: do you have a decent shell? | 13:21 |
| timeless_mbp | try (as root): apt-get install strace | 13:21 |
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| Stskeeps | setting locale failed yadda yadda.. | 13:22 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok, try dpkg-reconfigure locales | 13:22 |
| timeless_mbp | you're missing a file | 13:22 |
| timeless_mbp | one of my packages used to provide it | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, which? | 13:23 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a single file that says "hi, this locale exists" | 13:24 |
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| * timeless_mbp goes fishing | 13:24 | |
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| Stskeeps | ah, i think i might know why | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 13:24 |
| timeless_mbp | locale-l10-enus1 is the one | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | (thanks for the strings btw, they're excellent) | 13:25 |
| timeless_mbp | /var/lib/locales/supported.d/ is the directory | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | got it - i forgot to localegen en_US.UTF-8 | 13:25 |
| timeless_mbp | the file can be called anything but in mine it's locale-l10n-enus1 | 13:25 |
| timeless_mbp | once i copy that file over | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | and run dpkg-reconfigure | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | things work | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 13:26 |
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| Stskeeps | localegen does the supported.d part | 13:27 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 13:27 | |
| timeless_mbp | i've always had a package of mine which provides the file and then trigger dpkg-reconfigure locales | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | but i don't know the formal way to do this nonsense :) | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | anything else or can i delete the disk image? | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | nah, i think we solved it by now :) | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | thanks :) | 13:28 |
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| Stskeeps | either way, we already have some chinese translations based on the en_US translations now | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | we'll see how that works out | 13:28 |
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| finn | have there been cases where formating the SD card still gives the "no filesystem available" error when connecting a card reader to USB? | 13:29 |
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| wazd | Any HTML parcing specialists in here?) | 14:37 |
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| lcuk | wazd, you dont need to be a specialist, just have good access to a parsing library :) | 14:47 |
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| RichiH | great, if i try to select all & delete all in File Manager, the n810 reboots | 14:50 |
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| lcuk | RichiH, i once tried to move >1000 files from one folder to another and corrupted my mmc | 14:52 |
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| lcuk | i havent done that since :) | 14:52 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: Why don't you just click on the top-level icon for the memory card. Then menu->tools->format memory card ? | 14:52 |
| RichiH | X-Fade: cause i did now know you could do that :) | 14:53 |
| RichiH | thanks | 14:53 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: tap-n-hold on memorycard icon brings up the option too btw. | 14:53 |
| RichiH | X-Fade: i did that and there was no format | 14:54 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: There is for me? | 14:54 |
| RichiH | i will look again once it is done locking up and actually usable again | 14:55 |
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| RichiH | X-Fade: ah, it's there but greyed out | 14:57 |
| RichiH | apparently, it's in use | 14:57 |
| RichiH | how do i find out what uses it? | 14:57 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: removed usb cable? | 14:57 |
| RichiH | there is non plugged in | 14:58 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: Using swap? | 14:58 |
| RichiH | X-Fade: i don't know | 14:59 |
| ShadowJK | 1000 files wouldn't fit in the root directory of either mmc :) | 15:00 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: control panel -> memory -> virtual | 15:00 |
| RichiH | unable to remove vitrual memory | 15:02 |
| RichiH | when trying to deactivate swap | 15:03 |
| X-Fade | Sounds like the filesystem is corrupted. | 15:03 |
| RichiH | fine by me. which brings me back to my initial question of how to reset the whole thing to zero | 15:03 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: There is no default way to do that. As the user partition isn't touched while flashing. | 15:04 |
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| RichiH | X-Fade: if i re-flash, should it start without swap activated? | 15:04 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: I'm not sure. It might detect the swap file. | 15:05 |
| * RichiH can't wait for the n900 with properly sized storage & omap3 :) | 15:05 | |
| RichiH | X-Fade: i will be able to tell you in a minute or five | 15:06 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: Corrupt filesystem will probably never be solved as this can happen in many ways. | 15:06 |
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| ShadowJK | you tried to deactive swap, right.. it might've deactivatd it but not deleted the actual file.. which should still be fine for formatting it from file manager | 15:06 |
| RichiH | X-Fade: tbh, i do assume that a FS corruption is very much the exception, not the norm | 15:07 |
| ShadowJK | indeed | 15:07 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: Not when you use memorycards which show up in windows and use vfat. | 15:07 |
| RichiH | ShadowJK: it would not let me exit the menu unless i clicked cancel, but i did not try to reformat afterwards | 15:07 |
| lcuk | RichiH, with any filesystem, assume failure will occur | 15:07 |
| X-Fade | When you do not do a nice unmount, it can be corrupted alreay. | 15:07 |
| lcuk | that is true for tablets and desktop computers and laptops and everything else | 15:07 |
| ShadowJK | I had filesystem corruption once.. I traced the problem to the memory card reader I had been using. It silently corrupted stuff both reading and writing... after I stopped putting cards in it, corruption issues went away :) | 15:08 |
| RichiH | lcuk: and keep backups, of course. still, i assume failure is the exception, not the norm | 15:08 |
| ShadowJK | RichiH, ok do you have access to root shell on the tablet? | 15:08 |
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| lcuk | RichiH, of course its not the norm, but that doesnt mean one person wont have bacd luck and corrupt everything they touch ;) | 15:08 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: Of course this problem can be solved with some console foo too, but that would require some knowledge on your end. | 15:08 |
| RichiH | ShadowJK: i can't install anything, any more | 15:08 |
| RichiH | ShadowJK: so no | 15:09 |
| RichiH | X-Fade: assume advanced to pro knowledge on my end | 15:09 |
| RichiH | with linux in general, not maemo, of course | 15:09 |
| ShadowJK | hm, what happens if you connect usb cable to computer when the tablet is on? :) | 15:10 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: Well, whatever you normally do with corrupt filesystems. Unmount,format ;) | 15:10 |
| RichiH | X-Fade: that is waht i tried :p | 15:10 |
| ShadowJK | the problem with console-foo is you need rootshell :) | 15:11 |
| ShadowJK | though if you're lucky, connecting usb cable will make the internal (and external) cards appear on your PC | 15:12 |
| RichiH | hmm, could it be that if i boot normally with usb attached, the internal storage is only shown via USB, but not within the n810? | 15:12 |
| RichiH | if that is the case, i think i just found a way to fix this mess :) | 15:12 |
| ShadowJK | worth a try - as long as it doesn't end up waiting for flashing | 15:12 |
| ShadowJK | I forget how it works :) | 15:12 |
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| X-Fade | RichiH: Won't work as the filesystem is still mounted. | 15:13 |
| RichiH | it seems that if i boot in USB mode, i see the actual root storage. if i don't, i see the internal flash | 15:13 |
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| RichiH | X-Fade: not neccessarily. atm, i am able to run the n810 at amazing speeds (read, i do not have to wait 10 to 120 seconds after keypresses) | 15:13 |
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| RichiH | input is processed immediately | 15:14 |
| ShadowJK | did you connect usb cable? | 15:14 |
| RichiH | yes | 15:14 |
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| RichiH | Disk /dev/sda: 2013 MB, 2013265920 bytes | 15:14 |
| RichiH | i need vfat, i assume? | 15:14 |
| RichiH | i.e. fat32 | 15:14 |
| ShadowJK | can you do cat /proc/mounts on the tablet, and make sure mmc isn't mounted | 15:14 |
| RichiH | with the way i am running it atm, i might be able to | 15:15 |
| ShadowJK | with usb connected :) | 15:16 |
| RichiH | i.e. it's fast enough and seems to work as it is, presumably, intended | 15:16 |
| RichiH | aye | 15:16 |
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| RichiH | k, the internal flash is definitely invisible on the n810 | 15:18 |
| RichiH | ++ | 15:18 |
| ShadowJK | nice | 15:19 |
| ShadowJK | did your PC detect a sda1 partition? | 15:19 |
| ShadowJK | and I hope it isn't the external card if you have one inserted :) | 15:19 |
| RichiH | nope, there is none | 15:20 |
| RichiH | i still need to get a micro->mini adapter | 15:20 |
| RichiH | ok, reformatted the 2 GiB partition with vfat, reflashed the n810 | 15:20 |
| ShadowJK | did you reformat /dev/sda or /dev/sda1? :) | 15:20 |
| ShadowJK | ah nevermind, what does it look like on the tablet now? :P | 15:21 |
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| RichiH | sda1 as that was what was there | 15:22 |
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| RichiH | fdisk did not agree about the sector count so i did not repartition, either | 15:23 |
| ShadowJK | hah, yeah that's an error that comes by default :) | 15:23 |
| X-Fade | RichiH: make sure the partition size is the same as fs size. | 15:23 |
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| RST38h | http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/08/video-asus-eee-keyboard-gutted-soldering-secrets-revealed/ | 15:27 |
| RST38h | ASUS seems to be doing better on UI than Fremantle =) | 15:27 |
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| ShadowJK | lol. XP bootscreen sideways | 15:30 |
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| * infobot hereby declares git@garage a troll, courtesy of rkirti | 15:32 | |
| RichiH | ShadowJK: _should_ i repartition? | 15:33 |
| RichiH | if yes, now is the time | 15:33 |
| ShadowJK | some people swear that not doing it is the source of filesystem corruption | 15:34 |
| rkirti | woah,this is dangerous! I thought infobot would help me vent my angst at garage's git for accepting pushes only once in n times, and being so horribly slow | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | rkirti: how does your HD look now? | 15:35 |
| rkirti | rather plain the last time I saw it. I have added lots of stuff after that, but cant test it till I get my adapter's cable back :-| (in an hour) | 15:36 |
| suihkulokki | rkirti: yeah, git over https sucks in general, and git@garage appears to be even a poor implemenation of it :'( | 15:37 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/chinesemer.png | 15:37 |
| X-Fade | suihkulokki: Problem is that git doesn't support user management when doing git protocol. | 15:37 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps, cool :D | 15:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | We really need some hardware to shut people up | 15:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, green is not better. . . . | 15:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | It looks like somebody vomited up a Mer logo in the corner. | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: feel like going over the mer theme and give me a silent beating to make things prettier? :P | 15:39 |
| suihkulokki | X-Fade: I think most use ssh for authentication (at least gitorious) | 15:39 |
| X-Fade | suihkulokki: Yeah. Which is not allowed through certain corporate firewalls ;) | 15:39 |
| X-Fade | suihkulokki: But it is on the TODO list anyway. | 15:40 |
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| Stskeeps | i so hope these chinese translations aren | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | 't translate.google.com and actually swear words.. | 15:40 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: we're almost finished with VDVsx, most difficult parts are drawn :) | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | k | 15:41 |
| wazd | http://i060.radikal.ru/0907/ca/299547cc93e8.jpg <- keyboard restyling :) | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | not bad | 15:41 |
| ShadowJK | the most evil part about translating swear words from english to chinese with translate.google is that the poor westerner has no clue how to type the symbols back into translate.google for verification :P | 15:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, too much iPhone. | 15:42 |
| ShadowJK | Make them triangular shaped | 15:42 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: what can I do, it acts like the iPhone one :) | 15:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | There must be some more radical vkb designs we can try | 15:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, also, the S60 5th calculator has a nice features where it highlights the last key that was pressed. | 15:43 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: The circular ones with keys in the corners? :) | 15:43 |
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| wazd | GeneralAntilles: it's just a redrawing for now, no changes in functionality | 15:43 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Yeah, that is very nice when you type in passwords and somebody is watching ;) | 15:43 |
| RST38h | General: "but it looks like iPhone!" is not a valid counter argument :) | 15:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, clearly the toolkit is clued into that fact. | 15:43 |
| ShadowJK | fail: typing in passwords when someone is watching | 15:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, so disabling it would be no more difficult than asterisking them out like it does now. | 15:44 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Type in your lock code on your tablet now ;) | 15:44 |
| X-Fade | It keeps the last typed char highlighted. | 15:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh, who locks their tablets? | 15:44 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Works nicely when I have xterm open with remote root shells ;) | 15:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, play the the edge-case game and you're going to get funny behaviors. :P | 15:46 |
| * GeneralAntilles goes to pitch a new game show. | 15:46 | |
| * GeneralAntilles also goes to work. | 15:46 | |
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| wazd | damn, I HATE typing... Just finished 10 pages of a website proposal document X_X | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: can you get some better icons for the other apps? :) | 16:03 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: yeah, once we have replaced the fremantle icons which we cannot use :) | 16:04 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: I'll do that | 16:04 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: where's my f12 key? | 16:04 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: ask VDVsx :D | 16:05 |
| timeless_mbp | ask him for me :) | 16:05 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: i'll trade f11 for ESC | 16:05 |
| timeless_mbp | especially if F1 shifts right and ESC rotates to the left of it :) | 16:05 |
| wazd | VDVsx: hey, where's f12 key? :D | 16:06 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: also, would you consider trading backspace for enter? | 16:06 |
| timeless_mbp | heck, having a left stroke over space trigger backspace :) | 16:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | hrm... | 16:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | could i have a right stroke over space for tab? :) | 16:07 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: Hi | 16:07 |
| wazd | fiferboy: heya :) | 16:08 |
| fiferboy | Antonio likes finger scrolling, which must mean he hasn't tested it with 4.5.2 on the device | 16:08 |
| VDVsx | wazd, timeless_mbp , with the current layout I can't put all the wanted keys in the screen (home and program are also missing for the mac user), suggestions are welcome | 16:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | VDVsx: so... f12 is not actually important | 16:09 |
| timeless_mbp | but having f11 w/o f12 is stupid | 16:09 |
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| wazd | VDVsx: oh, and that's all the problem?) | 16:09 |
| timeless_mbp | please shift f1..f10 over one, drop f11 and add esc | 16:09 |
| VDVsx | timeless_mbp, f11 is fullscreen in FF | 16:09 |
| timeless_mbp | not on my mac :) | 16:10 |
| VDVsx | eheh | 16:10 |
| timeless_mbp | (ff-mac doesn't support full screen) | 16:10 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: lawl | 16:10 |
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| X-Fade | jeremiah_: ping? | 16:13 |
| VDVsx | timeless_mbp, the alt key isn't present usually in mac's right ? | 16:14 |
| timeless_mbp | sure it is | 16:14 |
| timeless_mbp | ctrl, alt-option, cmd, space, cmd, alt-option, ctrl | 16:14 |
| timeless_mbp | that's this mac usb keyboard | 16:15 |
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| VDVsx | timeless_mbp, humm, how do you use the alt key ? ctl + option ? :P | 16:17 |
| timeless_mbp | depends on the system | 16:17 |
| timeless_mbp | if it's a windows system, the key is alt | 16:17 |
| timeless_mbp | if it's a mac app, it's option | 16:18 |
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| VDVsx | timeless_mbp, ah, cool , thanks | 16:18 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Submissions#Mer:_A_year_after | 16:18 |
| Stskeeps | (comments welcome) | 16:19 |
| ShadowJK | a year already? | 16:19 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah | 16:20 |
| VDVsx | thought the same (in October should be) | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | in october | 16:20 |
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| Stskeeps | we first released quite late but the thoughts were out far before Fremantle announcement | 16:20 |
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| Stskeeps | about N8x0 not having it | 16:20 |
| ShadowJK | hah it feels like I just got my N810 last month but it's over a year now :/ | 16:20 |
| wazd | http://s41.radikal.ru/i093/0907/3f/730d9194cc9f.jpg | 16:21 |
| ShadowJK | how about diamond shaped | 16:22 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: what?) | 16:22 |
| ShadowJK | keys | 16:22 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: I think it's too extravaganza | 16:22 |
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| X-Fade | wazd: Opacity? | 16:23 |
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| wazd | please, ask more detailed questions :) | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Yeah, sorry lazy/busy ;) | 16:24 |
| ShadowJK | move row with z half a key to the left? :) | 16:24 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: opacity where/what/why?) | 16:24 |
| ShadowJK | or right | 16:24 |
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| X-Fade | wazd: I meant to say that you need to see the entry field below or have a dedicated entry field bar somewhere? | 16:25 |
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| Hitos | Hi people. | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | 'lo Hitos | 16:25 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: it's just a screen keyboard, no entry fields there :) | 16:26 |
| wazd | X-Fade: it connects to the desktop as BT keyboard | 16:26 |
| wazd | Hitos: hello | 16:26 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Ah. | 16:26 |
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| wazd | ShadowJK: hmm, why so?) | 16:27 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: then it will be harder to press backspace | 16:28 |
| VDVsx | wazd, now I will need one of your cool diagrams for the first row :P | 16:28 |
| * RST38h would actually suggest a different screen keyboard | 16:28 | |
| RST38h | Make it full screen, transparent, and overlay it on the application | 16:29 |
| ShadowJK | wazd, but makes it harder to mis-press between rows when the columns are misaligned | 16:29 |
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| wazd | RST38h: you've missed the point | 16:29 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, it's not screen keyboard as he already said | 16:29 |
| wazd | RST38h: that's like bt keyboard for the desktop | 16:29 |
| RST38h | Shadow: wazd just said that it IS screen keyboard | 16:30 |
| wazd | RST38h: it doesn't work on the tablet | 16:30 |
| RST38h | wazd: Ah, it is for bluemaemo | 16:30 |
| RST38h | Ok, I get it now | 16:30 |
| lcuk | wazd :) amazing - don't forget, it should be practical to use an older nokia device as a vkb (via bt) with a newer nokia device - a double sized nokia acting in tandem would make for an excellent demo video ;) | 16:30 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, it's screen keyboard technicaly :) | 16:30 |
| wazd | lcuk: new nokia has a hardware keyboard :) | 16:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: I use Bluemaemo running on an N810 to connect to an N800 | 16:31 |
| lcuk | doesnt matter - the smartq doesnt and lots of folks have n800s which they dont want to just throw away when new one comes along | 16:31 |
| wazd | lcuk: It works in every mode as VDVsx says :) | 16:31 |
| Hitos | Abiword has been creating new entries in the Application Menu each time it is installed or updated. Right now I have eight Abiword entries in the Extras menu. Where I can edit the application menu, so I can remove these? I use Diablo. | 16:31 |
| lcuk | haha qwerty cool | 16:31 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: nerd :P | 16:32 |
| lcuk | lol | 16:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | how did you find out? :p | 16:32 |
| wazd | qwerty12_N810: more than 2 digits in your nickname :D | 16:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | hehe | 16:33 |
| Jaffa | wazd: why is it not full screen? Given there's nothing running underneath, surely having the largest physical layout on a 4" diagonal is important? | 16:33 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if the upper area is left for mouse | 16:33 |
| wazd | Jaffa: vertical space doesn't make much sense here and that small row on the top is actually a trackpad surface :) | 16:34 |
| wazd | Jaffa: tap here and move to move the cursor | 16:34 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: except all the keys could be bigger, there could be a number row, some symbols included etc :-p | 16:34 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: Trackpad's intersting though | 16:34 |
| wazd | Jaffa: and again, I've just remade the look, cause rearranging all that stuff is a difficult stuff | 16:34 |
| wazd | stuff stuff :) | 16:35 |
| X-Fade | lbt: ping? | 16:35 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: Oh, you're just doing a skinning job. Thought it was a mockup/concept for a future version of BlueMaemo | 16:35 |
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| VDVsx | Jaffa, number and special char are in the second and third keyboard view :) | 16:35 |
| wazd | Jaffa: well, mouse/keyboard switch is an improvement :P | 16:36 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: Yeah, I guessed that. It's irritating having to go to Chr on an N810 for {, }, [, ], | etc. And flicking views for numbers seems overly painful (though I dunno what use cases you're aiming for with the BlueMaemo keyboard) | 16:36 |
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| RST38h | VDVsx: Is there any hope for predictive CHR entry, like on S60? =) | 16:38 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, t9 ? | 16:38 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, I know, maybe we can think in something coller later, but right now, Wazd is helping me in a more strait restyling :) | 16:39 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: No, much simpler | 16:39 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: S60 shows 5-6 last entered CHRs at the top row of the entry table | 16:39 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: So that you can access them quickly | 16:40 |
| lcuk | wazd, didnt stskeeps just do a crowd sourcing thing for XML layouts for keyboards? | 16:40 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: And very good it looks too :) | 16:40 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, ah, I get it :), good idea | 16:40 |
| lcuk | i keep thinking its possible to read those layouts and use in liqbase, so it should be possible also to do same in other apps | 16:40 |
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| VDVsx | Jaffa, wazd is very skilled, and apart from others could say about programmers and designers working together, I like to work it him :) | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | hurray for wazd! | 16:42 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, how complex are those layouts? | 16:43 |
| lcuk | are they just position and keycap info? | 16:43 |
| ShadowJK | VDVsx, has anyone requested the + and - hw buttons for left and right click yet? :-) | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: very simple, not even position | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | just row | 16:43 |
| lcuk | mm thats a shame | 16:44 |
| VDVsx | ShadowJK, they act like hold, i.e if you press - or + you can drag and drop | 16:44 |
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| VDVsx | ShadowJK, a on-screen right and left buttons also exist | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | and tap works for left click too, but I haven't figured out how to do click-hold through tapping | 16:47 |
| ShadowJK | like you can do on laptop touchpads :) | 16:47 |
| * Stskeeps is looking forward to trying the kinetic osso-xterm | 16:47 | |
| VDVsx | ShadowJk, tap-click and hold isn't implemented | 16:49 |
| wazd | http://s41.radikal.ru/i091/0907/9e/fa84e601134a.jpg <- mouse layout | 16:50 |
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| wazd | I think I should mark LMB and RMB | 16:51 |
| wazd | it's not 100% obvious where they are :) | 16:51 |
| VDVsx | ShadowJK, actually I think, my laptop touchpad doesn't support it to, or I can't figure it out how to do it :) | 16:51 |
| ShadowJK | it's like a double-tap where you don't release on the last tap | 16:52 |
| ShadowJK | or then it was a tripple-tap | 16:53 |
| ShadowJK | I don't actually have a laptop, I've only used other people's laptops :P | 16:53 |
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| RST38h | VDVsx,wazd: I see you have got some free space in the title bar - it can be used to display the name of a device bluemaemo connects to | 16:54 |
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| RST38h | Also clock. | 16:55 |
| Eren | is there a guide for newbies wanting to start with GSM? :) | 16:56 |
| * Eren is currently checking on Wiki | 16:56 | |
| ShadowJK | what do you mean start with gsm.. | 16:56 |
| VDVsx | ShadowJK, hum, I see the "drag hand" but I can't move the window, too difficult :P | 16:56 |
| Eren | ShadowJK: I mean, understanding the core elements, what makes GSM possible and so on.. think it like an "how internet as it's used today works" | 16:57 |
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| ShadowJK | i guess wikipedia.. | 16:57 |
| RST38h | Eren: Google! | 16:58 |
| Eren | RST38h: of course, google! but I need a keyword :) | 16:58 |
| ShadowJK | gsm is an industry standard, this means 10,000page standards documents written in a type of english unknown to most people | 16:58 |
| Eren | what should I learn to play with network? | 16:58 |
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| * VDVsx is heading back to the Som's work | 16:59 | |
| Eren | this came to my mind yesterday, I wanted to make an application on my computer to send SMS using my current SIM card | 16:59 |
| RST38h | Eren: "gsm" ? | 16:59 |
| RST38h | Shadow: GSM standards are all closed, available to people paying lots of $$$ nly | 17:00 |
| RST38h | Shadow: Some of the documents have been leaked though, so they can be found | 17:00 |
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| X-Fade | Well, using AT commands you will probably manage? | 17:00 |
| Eren | RST38h: ehm, how it's all closed? so we can't learn what we should do to authenticate with network and the protocol used in SMS | 17:01 |
| VDVsx | Eren, http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Main_Page | 17:01 |
| Hitos | Where are located the entries for the application menu in OS2008? | 17:02 |
| RST38h | Eren: you can send SMS messages through web sites | 17:02 |
| X-Fade | Hitos: Control panel -> panels | 17:03 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hitos: /usr/share/applications/hildon/ | 17:03 |
| Eren | RST38h: well, right :) but I want to play with the core elements. Think it like "sniffing the ethernet device to see which program sends which packages" | 17:04 |
| RST38h | Eren: SMSes are actually sent with AT commands, but you ave to be already authenticated and also have to have access to the baseband chip | 17:04 |
| Hitos | qwerty12_N810: Thank you. | 17:04 |
| X-Fade | Hitos: You can then click on applications organize button. | 17:04 |
| X-Fade | Hitos: No need to hack on the filesystem. | 17:04 |
| RST38h | Eren: http://gatling.ikk.sztaki.hu/~kissg/gsm/at+c.html | 17:04 |
| RST38h | Eren: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcca.org%2Fstandards%2FAnnex_i.doc&ei=Y6dUSsS7L8HB-Qac6qzMCA&usg=AFQjCNEi8tqwE2ghdswLTd5LEuHmuEI0NA&sig2=NkZNCOc1p4SWCIPP93BQkg | 17:05 |
| ShadowJK | If you have a GSM phone or a GSM/3G modem, they act and talk Hayes AT commandset and behave a bit like a modem :P | 17:05 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Sony Ericsson have a PDF of the AT commands used in their phones @ developer world | 17:05 |
| Hitos | X-Fade: I need to. I got a lot of repeated entres for Abiword and the Control Panel doesn't allow me to remove them. | 17:05 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah, nokia has one on forum nokia | 17:05 |
| RST38h | Eren: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~mcba/iridium/Motorola_AT_Command_Set.pdf | 17:06 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, I think it's not so necessary info to display it on every screen | 17:06 |
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| RST38h | Eren: www.pcca.org/standards/Annex_i.doc | 17:06 |
| X-Fade | Hitos: Isn't that what the delete button is for? :) | 17:06 |
| wazd | RST38h: it's shown on the main menu and I think it's enough | 17:06 |
| RST38h | Eren: Should I google further or will you be able to serve yourself? =) | 17:06 |
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| RST38h | wazd: It's not, true | 17:06 |
| Eren | RST38h: thank you, that's enough for starting :) | 17:06 |
| RST38h | wazd: It's just that the title looks orphaned :) | 17:06 |
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| Eren | RST38h: I hope I'll be able to find my way using these documents, at least I have keyword to look up :)) | 17:07 |
| wazd | RST38h: Whatever :) | 17:07 |
| wazd | RST38h: freespace is a good thing :) | 17:07 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Put a fortune cookie there :) | 17:07 |
| Eren | ShadowJK: hmm, reasonable, our mobile phones does have simply a modem chip to interact with GSM network. there there are set of rules that operates the system. I guess we can think these as "protocols" | 17:08 |
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| Eren | like an IRC protocol, MSN protocol etc. | 17:08 |
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| ShadowJK | and you can talk AT with the modem chips, that's the best you'll get :P | 17:09 |
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| * Eren now needs a linux-compatable modem chip :P | 17:10 | |
| ShadowJK | do you have a cellphone? | 17:10 |
| Eren | of course | 17:10 |
| ShadowJK | Does it have bluetooth? Do you have a computer with bluetooth? | 17:11 |
| Eren | ShadowJK: it has bluetooth, yep | 17:11 |
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| Eren | hm, no my laptop doesn't have bluetooth, but I can solve this problem with usb bluetooth device | 17:12 |
| ShadowJK | do you have a usb bluetooth device? | 17:12 |
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| Eren | ShadowJK: not yet, do you think I can use it as "modem" to interact with network? :) | 17:13 |
| ShadowJK | There isn't much you can do anyway | 17:14 |
| ShadowJK | send and receive sms, answer and make calls :P | 17:14 |
| Eren | :)) | 17:14 |
| Eren | can't I debug it? :P | 17:14 |
| VDVsx | lolol, best phone test ever : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqK97furfBA :P | 17:14 |
| ShadowJK | Eren, nop | 17:14 |
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| ShadowJK | Read the pdf RST38h linked :P | 17:15 |
| Eren | ShadowJK: okie, I downloaded it :) | 17:15 |
| ShadowJK | to get an idea of what they expose | 17:15 |
| Eren | VDVsx: wohoo, great. I'm hungry :\ | 17:15 |
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| Eren | ah btw guys, what about the "Curse of Silence" attack? Does European GSM carries filter the "payload" ? | 17:17 |
| lcuk | arghhh my dns is screwed | 17:18 |
| lcuk | can someone tell me if this works: http://liqbase.net/liq.20090708_001114.liqcontrolpanel.scr.png | 17:18 |
| VDVsx | yup | 17:18 |
| lcuk | cool :) | 17:19 |
| * lcuk is getting 404 here when i just clicked it myself | 17:19 | |
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| ShadowJK | My nokia phones expose several rfcomm serial ports over bluetooth.. atleast one of them accepts AT commands :) | 17:22 |
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| inz | ShadowJK, hint: sdptool search [--bdaddr xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx] DUN | 17:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: what's w the beer? | 17:27 |
| lcuk | memory indicators :) (stylized, zach is gonna make em proper | 17:28 |
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| ShadowJK | inz, one of the other ones were better for SMS and calls, iirc :) | 17:28 |
| lcuk | like the lemon battery, i just wanted *something* in place | 17:28 |
| timeless_mbp | so | 17:28 |
| timeless_mbp | power, temperature | 17:28 |
| timeless_mbp | brightness | 17:29 |
| timeless_mbp | storage, time | 17:29 |
| timeless_mbp | and licqbase? | 17:29 |
| lcuk | all of the things zach has background net based monitoring code for | 17:29 |
| inz | ShadowJK, oh, my Nokia phones only speak Hayes over the DUN channel | 17:29 |
| lcuk | well, some of em lol | 17:29 |
| lcuk | i just put the others there to see | 17:30 |
| lcuk | on the full desktop they dont take up much room, but each can be expanded to full screen easily :) | 17:30 |
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| ShadowJK | on my 6230 I can connect to DUN on one channel and have an active internet connection, while I have gnokii polling one of the other RFCOMM channels for signal strength and cellID, so I can move it around until I trick it to switch to the better base station :P | 17:30 |
| ShadowJK | alternating between climbing chairs and hiding it in tinfoil seems to eventually convince it to switch to something else, and with luck it's the one I want | 17:32 |
| RST38h | <tin foil detected> | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | some helpful person on IRC once told me an easy way use a car battery to trick the base stations to switch to internal power | 17:33 |
| ShadowJK | he promised if I did it to all the ones in range that I don't want, there'd only be the one I want left after 4 hours or so | 17:33 |
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| * ShadowJK didn't try, it sounded like lots of effort | 17:33 | |
| RST38h | Oh but the effect! | 17:34 |
| ShadowJK | and probably not legal :) | 17:34 |
| RST38h | Shadow: Most fun things are illegal in the US | 17:35 |
| finn | formated the SD card again | 17:36 |
| finn | still no file system available | 17:36 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: you want reports of missing strings? | 17:46 |
| timeless_mbp | not particularly ;-) | 17:46 |
| timeless_mbp | any strings i'm missing weren't in the thing you provided, right? | 17:46 |
| timeless_mbp | in general you should be able to retrieve strings from the other packages i gave you | 17:46 |
| timeless_mbp | i did give you my translate set too, right? | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | i'll take a look | 17:46 |
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| lbt | fiferboy: hi | 17:50 |
| lbt | X-Fade: pong | 17:50 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Hey | 17:51 |
| lbt | not been overlapping much recently have we :) | 17:51 |
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| fiferboy | No we haven't | 17:51 |
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| fiferboy | It looks like finger scrolling will finally get into extras-devel, but performance is going to suck unless they fix raster at the same time | 17:58 |
| lbt | cool | 17:58 |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Did you see this one already? https://git.maemo.org/projects/gitweb?p=wpasupplicant;a=summary | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | no, but interesting | 18:24 |
| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: where do i file bugs? | 18:24 |
| timeless_mbp | https://git.maemo.org/projects/gitweb?p=wpasupplicant;a=blob;f=README;h=9c6be85d9ea3a9e033486c541979a82cfcb12da1;hb=566cf8b4cd69381ffa65c907a0518ea925e5ff2f | 18:24 |
| timeless_mbp | 7 These program is dual-licensed under both the GPL version 2 and BSD | 18:24 |
| timeless_mbp | These program is <****d by non native speakers> | 18:25 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: I have no idea, this project showed up today. | 18:25 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: I guess andre needs to add a product for it in bugzilla ;) | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, i can do that :) | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | well, if safari cooperates | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: shall i? | 18:26 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: I have no idea what this project is supposed to be inside Nokia. Didn't see any notifications about it. | 18:26 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: So the QA contact would need to be looked up at least. | 18:27 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 18:27 |
| timeless_mbp | qa's are auto generated by the person who makes the product in bugzilla :) | 18:27 |
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| Stskeeps | hm, why was http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/ remade today | 18:29 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Gets regenerated every day. | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 18:30 |
| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: why are tutorial and hig not? | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | well that explains it :P | 18:30 |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Well, imported from SCM every day. | 18:30 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: But those are published versions. So nothing bleeding edge. | 18:30 |
| derf | lardman: Did you see my note about a working version of the QR code stuff integrated with zbar? | 18:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: ok, wpasupplicant has a compoent | 18:37 |
| timeless_mbp | s/oe/one/ | 18:37 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: X-Fade: ok, wpasupplicant has a component | 18:37 |
| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: http://wpasupplicant.garage.maemo.org/ | 18:38 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: Pretty generic page? | 18:39 |
| timeless_mbp | not as generic as i expected :) | 18:39 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: "upload new page here" :) | 18:39 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't see that? | 18:40 |
| X-Fade | No, but that was what you expected? | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i see Host AP driver for Intersil Prism2/2.5/3, hostapd, and WPA Supplicant | 18:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyway, if you have issues w/ the web page, https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=wpasupplicant&component=Website | 18:43 |
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| wazd | http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/08/sony-ericsson-rachael-images-and-ui-video-leak-out-kiki-comes-f/ | 19:16 |
| wazd | Why still noone hired Michael Bay to direct UI visuals? | 19:16 |
| wazd | It would be awesome | 19:16 |
| wazd | you're clicking "phonebook" and BAAAM! Exposions, sounds, vibra, call 911 | 19:17 |
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| lcuk | wazd, i heard he already did, but noone got out of the press conference alive to tell us about it! | 19:18 |
| wazd | lcuk: oh crap | 19:19 |
| wazd | stupid journalists forgot to put a fireproof suit on | 19:19 |
| lcuk | a nokia transformer could be cool (H) | 19:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | wazd: there's no audio | 19:22 |
| timeless_mbp | this sucks | 19:22 |
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| wazd | timeless_mbp: one step at a time :) | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | the battery life has to suck | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | interesting | 19:23 |
| GAN800 | lcuk, already had one. | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | newer messages at the top | 19:23 |
| lcuk | GAN800, which model? | 19:24 |
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| GAN800 | lcuk, one of the clamshell ones. Don't recall which. First Transformers movie. | 19:25 |
| lcuk | heh | 19:25 |
| wazd | I understand that it's hard to keep your brain cool with modern hardware | 19:26 |
| lcuk | wazd, i got the battery looking and feeling proper now :D http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6743/liq20090708112248libscr.png zach is making it work with the technical stuff tonight http://liqbase.net/liq.20090708_001114.liqcontrolpanel.scr.png | 19:26 |
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| z4chh | :)! | 19:26 |
| wazd | Even Apple with their Pixar guru's has made slightly more animation than needed | 19:27 |
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| wazd | lcuk: btw that battery icon from the iPhone is one of the greatest fails from apple :) | 19:27 |
| lcuk | yeah but this is fully zoomable and dynamic and pretty (and tonnes better than the power lemon i put there at first | 19:28 |
| wazd | lcuk: and btw you don't have the exact iphone's one | 19:29 |
| lcuk | i hope not lol | 19:29 |
| wazd | lcuk: too much mistakes in it for apple :) | 19:29 |
| lcuk | nothing in linux is perfect | 19:30 |
| lcuk | gotta go | 19:30 |
| wazd | But the fail is that icon symbolizes some kind of a vessel | 19:30 |
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| wazd | vessels are containing liquids in 99.9% of cases | 19:31 |
| wazd | so the first association with this image is that it's a vessel filled with liquid | 19:31 |
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| wazd | but liquid can't stand vertically like that http://www.pocketpicks.co.uk/latest/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/20070.png | 19:32 |
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| wazd | This icon should be placed verticaly - then it's awesome | 19:32 |
| sp3000 | it's not liquid, it's magic! | 19:33 |
| sp3000 | neon green magic. | 19:33 |
| wazd | sp3000: it's jelly :) | 19:33 |
| sp3000 | of the firm sort apparently :) | 19:34 |
| wazd | lcuk: I can redraw this icon for you if you want | 19:34 |
| wazd | lcuk: it's easy | 19:34 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 19:35 | |
| GAN800 | You only wish batteries were magic. | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | most battery images behave the same way | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not saying that it's right | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | but apple wasn't the first to get it wrong | 19:35 |
| GAN800 | Then they might not suck so much. | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | they borrowed from an existing metaphor and made it shinier | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | (and bigger) | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | a better icon would be a candle actually | 19:36 |
| timeless_mbp | just show it burning its wax | 19:36 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: well, before this picture everything else was a schematic visualization | 19:36 |
| timeless_mbp | when the wax runs out, you're out of power :) | 19:36 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: um | 19:36 |
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| wazd | timeless_mbp: like in 10x10 pixels, who cares :) | 19:37 |
| GAN800 | I say you just slap a voltage up there. | 19:37 |
| timeless_mbp | 16x16 surely? :) | 19:37 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: and this is an attempt to draw something photorealistic | 19:37 |
| timeless_mbp | i still like my candle example | 19:37 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: old phones had icons like 5x10 :D | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: could you show a candle being dipped into a vat of wax | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | so that it gets longer with time? | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | (while charging) | 19:38 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: that's a too deep metaphor :) | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | http://images.google.com/images?q=wax%20candle%20vat | 19:39 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: battery vessel is fine, it just need to be finished :) | 19:39 |
| GAN800 | Fuel guage | 19:39 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.betterbee.com/images/candlevat.jpg | 19:39 |
| wazd | GAN800: simpsons did it :) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2201/1574196145_c84b3e9978.jpg | 19:40 |
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| GAN800 | All modern electronics are powered by blood. | 19:41 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 19:41 |
| RST38h | really? can I have some? | 19:41 |
| wazd | GAN800: even Pope Benedict :D | 19:41 |
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| GAN800 | So, clearly, all of these metaphors are just more lies | 19:43 |
| wazd | the cool thing to make with multitouch will be a battery apple | 19:43 |
| wazd | applet* | 19:43 |
| wazd | you click the icon, a duracel/energizer battery appears and you need to hold yellow dots to see battery status :D | 19:43 |
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| RST38h | heh | 19:44 |
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| RST38h | I would rather have an accelerator based battery gauge though | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | ssvb, do you happen to know if Xomap HAL support is broken? (with regards to XKB) | 19:45 |
| wazd | RST38h: that's boring :) | 19:45 |
| RST38h | wazd: Ok, give me a few minutes ;) | 19:45 |
| RST38h | wazd: 1) you can also use temperature sensor to make liquid "boil" | 19:46 |
| RST38h | wazd: 2) When an email comes, you can send a few fishes there | 19:46 |
| ssvb | Stskeeps: don't know about this really, I was mostly only involved with performance optimizations | 19:46 |
| wazd | RST38h: :D And an accelerometer to shake and watch bubbles :D | 19:46 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Yep, this goes without saying :) | 19:47 |
| Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: X.org HAL support is broken, I know that | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | ssvb: alright - just thought i'd ask :) | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | Luke-Jr: Xorg != Xomap :) | 19:47 |
| Luke-Jr | :þ | 19:47 |
| RST38h | wazd: Instant messages would make the liquid change color | 19:47 |
| RST38h | wazd: or maybe occur as bubbles | 19:47 |
| Luke-Jr | afaik, kdrive is just a static linked Xorg | 19:47 |
| wazd | RST38h: that sounds like some indie UI concept :D | 19:48 |
| RST38h | wazd: And the external LED should light up when you hold the tablet with LED down (i.e. when the liquid flows into it) | 19:48 |
| wazd | OS is a fishtank | 19:48 |
| wazd | apps are bubbles and decorations | 19:48 |
| RST38h | wazd: That isn't much worse than OS as a browser =) | 19:48 |
| wazd | water = battery :D | 19:49 |
| * RST38h vividly remembers the version of Xroach where cockroaches had usernames on their backs | 19:49 | |
| RST38h | By squishing them you could kick users off the system | 19:49 |
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| suihkulokki | hmm.. xroach/xbill are perfect tablet games | 19:50 |
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| RST38h | suihkulokki: well, in the original xroach roaches hid under windows, can't do this easily on Hildon | 19:54 |
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| infobot | I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power | 19:57 |
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| coldboot | Has anyone here worked on the Qt Hildon code? | 20:21 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: Somewhat | 20:21 |
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| coldboot | Is there any reason for widgets to be native when hildon is enabled? | 20:22 |
| lcuk | wazd, thank you for your kind offer, let zach actually make this one work and lets get things in place and see how we do with the other bits and let you see things in motion to understand the complexities | 20:22 |
| lcuk | its not just an image | 20:22 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: You mean hildon-themed? | 20:23 |
| lcuk | it is my hope we can have as many visualizations like this as possible and let the user choose which is best for them | 20:23 |
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| coldboot | fiferboy: I mean widgets are being converted to native X windows, rather than being Qt alien things. | 20:24 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: I'm currently working on a bug in Maemo Qt with hildon, where flickering occurs whenever you click a QAbstractItemView. | 20:24 |
| lcuk | isnt that a generic x11 problem though - and mostly noticable because of the slow speed of our hardware | 20:25 |
| fiferboy | Is that a hildon-specific change? I would have thought it would be the same in any X11 environment. | 20:25 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: Try the flickering in the 4.5.2 packages, it is even more pronounced because of slow rendering | 20:25 |
| lcuk | it might need a maemo specific fix though - purely because no other system has noticable problems | 20:26 |
| coldboot | I'll do some pasting and show you guys the bug. | 20:26 |
| coldboot | I found the cause of it. | 20:26 |
| coldboot | It's because whenever you click a QAbstractItemView with hildon enabled, the widget and all of its children are being converted to native X windows. This happens once during the lifetime of the widget. | 20:26 |
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| coldboot | I've been talking to Antonio Aloisso about it. | 20:27 |
| lcuk | the x11 conversion is normal isnt it | 20:27 |
| fiferboy | Have you tried disabling that portion of the code? | 20:27 |
| lcuk | its how you can use qt over x11 remote things | 20:27 |
| lcuk | and does it happen when you click or when you create the instance of the usercontrol/widget | 20:27 |
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| lcuk | or is that one and the same thing | 20:28 |
| coldboot | Yeah I disabled it and the flickering stops completely. | 20:28 |
| lcuk | disabled what, just the x11 construction? | 20:28 |
| fiferboy | Any side-effects you can notice? | 20:28 |
| coldboot | When you click the QAbstractItemView child widget for the first time during its life, it happens. | 20:28 |
| coldboot | And it only happens after setCentralWidget() has been called, not before. | 20:29 |
| coldboot | I couldn't reproduce it without setCentralWidget(). | 20:29 |
| lcuk | once per click on each item you click on, or once for the entire grid | 20:29 |
| coldboot | Once for the entire grid. | 20:29 |
| coldboot | So if I have a dropdown combobox, and a table, if you click one of them, they both flash and clicking the other after will not do anything. | 20:29 |
| lcuk | in windows land, we used to be able to put a hold on graphical refreshes for a while until i re-enable them | 20:30 |
| coldboot | 1. Click table, observe flash, 2. Click dropdown menu, observe that nothing happens -- and vice versa. | 20:30 |
| lcuk | nothing happens? ie no flicker, or nothing happens in it doesnt work | 20:30 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: What does Antonio say about the reason for the x11 conversion? | 20:31 |
| lcuk | its needed to get interactive UI controls isnt it | 20:31 |
| lcuk | its flickering because of the delay in making them live | 20:31 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: He hasn't replied yet, I emailed him 30 mins ago. | 20:32 |
| lcuk | ie not at form creation time, but instead waiting | 20:32 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: It doesn't sound like it. | 20:32 |
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| fiferboy | If it is not in the regular linux X11 version | 20:32 |
| fiferboy | It should need some special reason to be in the hildon x11 version | 20:32 |
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| coldboot | Here's the code that causes it: http://pastie.org/538825 | 20:34 |
| coldboot | lcuk: I mean no flicker happens, it works fine. | 20:34 |
| coldboot | So clicking any QAbstractItemView once will make it flicker, clicking any QAbstractItemView again will not flicker. If you setCentralWidget() again, it resets the state and you can flicker again. | 20:35 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: Does a context menu still work after you remove that code? | 20:35 |
| coldboot | Probably because when you setCentralWidget() it recreates all the child widgets, or makes them non-native (alien). | 20:35 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: Everything works fine even if I remove the call to QHildonInputContext::sendHildonCommand() | 20:35 |
| lcuk | coldboot, can you not just request the winid ah the "showing?" event of the main frame itself | 20:36 |
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| lcuk | so it instentiates and creates the winid which is obviously being requested by something else | 20:36 |
| coldboot | 'ah the "showing?"' ? What do you mean? | 20:36 |
| lcuk | an event which fires when you are about to show the box | 20:37 |
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| lcuk | i dunno qt specifically tho so dont know which slot name it needs | 20:37 |
| coldboot | I don't really know this code that well, I've just found what causes the bug. | 20:37 |
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| lcuk | the winid is obviously needed, and stopping it being initialized would be worse | 20:38 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: If you have an editor in the view, can you pop up the keyboard? | 20:38 |
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| coldboot | It doesn't have a winId initially because it's an alien Qt window, not a native X window. | 20:38 |
| coldboot | Read the giant comment here: http://pastie.org/538825 | 20:39 |
| coldboot | It says if the widget is non-native, it will be provided a native handle. | 20:39 |
| fiferboy | I would think that is so HildonInputMethod can work with an editor in the view | 20:39 |
| coldboot | Which is causing some redrawing and a bit of slowdown. | 20:39 |
| coldboot | What is Hildon in the context of Maemo? | 20:40 |
| lcuk | hildon is the desktop environment and special gtk widget classes | 20:40 |
| fiferboy | Well, the HildonInputMethod is what pops up the on screen keyboard and sends the keycodes to the field requesting it. | 20:40 |
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| * xnt14 looks at the log..... | 20:43 | |
| coldboot | ahhhhhhhh | 20:43 |
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| coldboot | That's what it is. | 20:43 |
| xnt14 | irssi needs notifications like xchat...... | 20:44 |
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| coldboot | xnt14: Like beeping when someone types your name? | 20:44 |
| xnt14 | yup | 20:44 |
| xnt14 | right now it just highlights | 20:44 |
| xnt14 | ~seen FireFox16 | 20:44 |
| infobot | firefox16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 13h 18m 6s ago, saying: 'damn :('. | 20:44 |
| coldboot | I wish xchat would highlight the entire line, so you can actually see it when scrolling back through hours of text. | 20:45 |
| xnt14 | yup | 20:45 |
| coldboot | lcuk: fiferboy: So do you have any ideas how to fix this? I have to write a workaround in my application as I can't redeploy Qt on the tons of devices we have, until later. | 20:45 |
| fiferboy | As lcuk says, maybe it could be done during the first painting rather than first click. | 20:46 |
| fiferboy | Where is it called from right now? | 20:46 |
| xnt14 | well I just flashed my nslu2 with openwrt, I wonder how to make opkg install packages to external usb...... | 20:46 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, is there an "about to show" event that coldboot could use to request the winid | 20:46 |
| fiferboy | setCentralWidget? | 20:46 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: I'm not sure where it's called from. Antonio said to look at setFocusWidget(), and that's where I found the problem. | 20:46 |
| fiferboy | I'll check it out, hold on | 20:46 |
| coldboot | It has been a long four weeks. ;) | 20:47 |
| GuySoft | hey all, there was a post on tablet-talks about it possible to get DVB-H streams on the nokia but not DVB-T, has anyone here tried DVB-T at all? | 20:47 |
| fiferboy | Good on you for figuring it out, though | 20:47 |
| coldboot | Well Antonio pointed me pretty much to where it was. | 20:48 |
| coldboot | But thanks. | 20:48 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: What sourcefile is that in? QAbstractItemView.cpp? | 20:48 |
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| coldboot | fiferboy: Which thing do you mean? | 20:49 |
| fiferboy | The first pastebin link you sent | 20:49 |
| coldboot | The source files are in the comments: http://pastie.org/538825 | 20:49 |
| coldboot | Comments above the function bodies. | 20:49 |
| fiferboy | Gotcha, thanks | 20:49 |
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| coldboot | fiferboy: setFocusWidget() is called in a lot of places. | 20:55 |
| coldboot | I guess it's called when you click on the widget... | 20:56 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: Yes. The first time it is called on the QAbstractItemView object it installs an EventFilter, and this is what cuases the flicker | 20:56 |
| coldboot | So for hildon, we need to ask for the winId on creation. | 20:56 |
| fiferboy | Subsequent calls do not create the EventFilter, until the object is destroyed and created | 20:57 |
| fiferboy | The problem is, setFocusWidget is just overloaded from QInputContext, and there is no equivalent for creation | 20:57 |
| coldboot | Just to be clear, you comment out `sendHildonCommand(HILDON_IM_SETCLIENT, w);' in the QHildonInputContext:setFocusWidget() function, while still leaving the eventFilter to be installed, the flickering goes away. | 20:58 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: Yeah, you're right, that is the problem. | 20:58 |
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| coldboot | Ah, there doesn't seem to be a place to put a winId() call, then. | 20:59 |
| coldboot | And we don't want to force all widgets to be native, I've already tried that and it slows down the whole application even on Scratchbox 2. | 20:59 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: You are right, it is not the EventFilter, but sendHildonCommand | 21:00 |
| fiferboy | Same general problem, though | 21:00 |
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| coldboot | Does hildon call setFocusWidget() on any widget that is clicked, or only for widgets it knows will need focus when clicked? For example, when clicking a QPushButton, hildon doesn't seem like it would need to have focus on it. | 21:02 |
| lcuk | i thought the intent now was a quick fix for this specific situation, can't you just add a handler for the paint event (as a test) and request the winid there | 21:02 |
| lcuk | after the first time the winid will be initialized so it wont be bad performance wise and may get round the issue | 21:02 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: It is only on widgets that need keyboard focus, I think | 21:03 |
| coldboot | lcuk: I've just learned that we can actually redeploy Qt quite easily. I'll try the paintEvent workaround though. | 21:03 |
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| coldboot | fiferboy: So for widgets that need keyboard focus, we could have them converted to native on creation. | 21:04 |
| coldboot | Or find a way to have hildon send events without having the widget to be native. | 21:04 |
| coldboot | Could the hildon keyboard, since it's outside of the Qt application, send its events to a single native eventHandler, that will then forward the events on to the alien widget in question? | 21:06 |
| coldboot | That way we don't have to make all keyboard focusable widgets native. | 21:07 |
| fiferboy | I don't know about the internals of HildonInputMethod (HIM) | 21:07 |
| fiferboy | I'm not sure, but isn't that what qhildoninputcontext_x11 is doing? | 21:08 |
| fiferboy | Can you comment out single functions from sendHildonCommand and see if removing a single line removes the flicker? | 21:09 |
| coldboot | I did already | 21:10 |
| coldboot | It's this line: msg->input_window = widget->winId(); | 21:10 |
| coldboot | The problem is that sendHildonCommand() merely forwarding raw X events to the widget, for that it needs the winId(). | 21:10 |
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| fiferboy | msg is type HildonIMActivateMessage, where is that defined? | 21:10 |
| H3LLB0Y | hi i bought a nokia n810 | 21:11 |
| fiferboy | It doesn't look like it is in qhildoninputcontext anywhere | 21:11 |
| H3LLB0Y | and i update to maemo 2008 version diablo | 21:11 |
| H3LLB0Y | how i can install nmap to meamo 08 | 21:11 |
| coldboot | src/gui/inputmethod/qhildoninputmethodprotocol.h:137 | 21:11 |
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| coldboot | Hildon should have some interpreter that converts the raw X events to Qt keyboard and mouse events so the widgets don't have to be native X windows. | 21:12 |
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| fiferboy | I think that would work | 21:13 |
| H3LLB0Y | i need help to install nmap in maemo 08 | 21:13 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: Okay I'm going to have a look to see if I can convert them. | 21:14 |
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| fiferboy | coldboot: If you don't mind me asking, what kind of project are you working on? | 21:15 |
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| coldboot | I work at Wireless Generation, we're making a program on a nokia n810 to assess students' reading ability. | 21:19 |
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| coldboot | So a kid reads a book, and you have the book's words on your device. | 21:19 |
| coldboot | You click the words they screw up, and so on. | 21:19 |
| coldboot | We also have math tests as well. | 21:19 |
| coldboot | It's for little kids between kindergarten and grade 3 to make sure they know how to read and do math before it's too late. | 21:20 |
| fiferboy | Cool. Are there many devices that it will be deployed on? | 21:20 |
| coldboot | Thousands. | 21:20 |
| lcuk | im helping jake to read with mine | 21:20 |
| lcuk | write | 21:20 |
| lcuk | sorry | 21:20 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: With liqbase? | 21:20 |
| lcuk | yeah :) | 21:20 |
| lcuk | its even better now i have a webserver and overlays | 21:20 |
| coldboot | Okay I've found the translateMouseEvent() and translateKeyEvent() for converting X events to Qt events. | 21:22 |
| coldboot | They're in src/gui/kernel/qapplication_x11.cpp | 21:22 |
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| coldboot | Does the "hildon" thing just send keyboard events? | 21:22 |
| lcuk | coldboot, digging rather deep - this hildon thing is central to maemo desktop environment | 21:22 |
| coldboot | hmmm | 21:23 |
| lcuk | try the quick fix lol | 21:24 |
| lcuk | it might just work | 21:24 |
| coldboot | lcuk: So you said to have it call winId() in the paintevent. | 21:24 |
| coldboot | Wouldn't I have to do that for each widget in question? | 21:25 |
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| fiferboy | I think translating the key events is the right way to go, since having natvie widgets hurts overall performance | 21:26 |
| lcuk | try it on the main thing itself | 21:26 |
| lcuk | itsj ust a quick test | 21:26 |
| lcuk | i dunno if it will work | 21:26 |
| coldboot | I don't see why it wouldn't work. | 21:26 |
| coldboot | But if you do it for all widgets, it kills performance. | 21:26 |
| johnsq | Hi | 21:26 |
| coldboot | It only needs to be done for QAbstractItemView's children. | 21:26 |
| lcuk | thats why you bung it in the one place you are experiencing problems right now | 21:29 |
| lcuk | not even all of them ;) you said yourself its only flickering the first time you click on one of the items within | 21:29 |
| lcuk | just add it to the paint event of the first thing in the list | 21:29 |
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| fiferboy | coldboot: that->setAttribute(Qt::WA_DontCreateNativeAncestors); | 21:29 |
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| coldboot | That means per screen I have to add it to the paint event of one QAbstractItemView child. | 21:29 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: Try setting that in the kernel/qwidget.cpp code before the other set attributes call | 21:29 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: That will screw up hildon, because it won't be able to forward X events, won't it? | 21:29 |
| coldboot | lcuk: I'm confident your paint fix will work, but I'd still have to add it to the paint event for at least one thing in every screen that we have in the app, and that's still a lot. | 21:29 |
| coldboot | lcuk: So even though it probably works, it's not really an option. | 21:29 |
| fiferboy | It will still set the winId on the widget you want, I think, just not every widget in the inheritance chain | 21:30 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: It'll still cause a flicker for that widget, though. | 21:30 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: If any alien widget is converted to a native widget, we'll see flickering, I'd guess. | 21:32 |
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| coldboot | I commented out the child scanning code, so it didn't go through converting all children. That reduced the flickering, but it still did it once. | 21:32 |
| fiferboy | I think the flickering is caused because it is setting a massive amount of widgets to native all at once | 21:32 |
| coldboot | That could be possible. | 21:32 |
| coldboot | What's the best way to have it print so I can count how many times it's being done? | 21:32 |
| fiferboy | qDebug() | 21:32 |
| user_ | the n810 works fine now that i reset it to factory defaults :) | 21:32 |
| user_ | <- richih | 21:32 |
| fiferboy | But you would have to do it in the QObject setAttribute function, I think | 21:32 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: Does that only work in the *.so*.debug version? | 21:32 |
| fiferboy | I think I have done it in non-debug libraries | 21:33 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: ping? | 21:35 |
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| coldboot | Does anyone know how to show the hildon keyboard in Scratchbox? | 21:50 |
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| lbt | fiferboy: pong | 22:00 |
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| coldboot | fiferboy: QHildonInputContext::sendHildonCommand() embeds some hildon command in an XEvent, and sends it to the widget. Do you know what the widget does with this command? | 22:01 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: In Qt you can middle click, I think | 22:01 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Do you know anything about HildonInputMethod? | 22:01 |
| lbt | not really | 22:01 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: coldboot has figured out where the flicker when selecting a QAbstractItemView comes from | 22:02 |
| fiferboy | But I'm not really strong on HIM either | 22:02 |
| lbt | just looking at the backlog | 22:03 |
| coldboot | This receives the event: bool QHildonInputContext::x11FilterEvent(QWidget *keywidget, XEvent *event); | 22:03 |
| coldboot | So we just need another way to send hildon commands, and we can fix it. | 22:03 |
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| coldboot | Has the maemo team thought about making Maemo a fork off of Qt's git repo? | 22:04 |
| lbt | ah... is HIM sending XEvents to the widget | 22:05 |
| coldboot | Yeah. | 22:05 |
| slonopotamus | coldboot, nooooooo! stop forking the whole world | 22:05 |
| lbt | coldboot: it is a fork | 22:05 |
| lbt | qt-maemo | 22:05 |
| coldboot | lbt: The problem is that since it wants to send X events to a widget, the widget gets converted to a native X window, which forces a redraw on the widget and all of its children. | 22:06 |
| lbt | ugh | 22:06 |
| lbt | proxy | 22:06 |
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| lbt | we need a Qt proxy that talks to HIM and sends to the widget inside Qt | 22:06 |
| lbt | yeah that sucks | 22:06 |
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| fiferboy | It would seem that qhildoninputcontext_x11.cpp should be able to do that, but instead converts widgets to native x11 windows to receive HIM commands | 22:08 |
| lbt | yeah, thinking about it | 22:09 |
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| lbt | shouldn't it be fine to send the events to the top level window at all times and let Qt propogate them? | 22:10 |
| coldboot | Does Antonio Aloisso hang out in IRC ever? | 22:11 |
| lbt | yes, he's gnuton | 22:11 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: I would think that would work, Qt knows what widget has keyboard focus | 22:12 |
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| lbt | There are some hacks in HIM that cause us other problems - focus based on mouse-release events done deep in the ev loop IIRC | 22:13 |
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| lbt | I've fetched the latest qt-maemo to merge into qt-mer | 22:14 |
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| fiferboy | So maybe instead of sending the widget winId, sending the toplevel application winId would work. | 22:14 |
| lbt | yes | 22:14 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Are you going to roll back some of the painter "fixes" in 4.5.2? | 22:14 |
| lbt | I was going to look at HIM to solve the issues that break scrolling | 22:15 |
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| lbt | no... I guess Antonio/Kimitake will fix them as high priority | 22:15 |
| lbt | we just need to keep on the beta-test pressure | 22:15 |
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| lbt | that performance has regressed ;) | 22:15 |
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| lbt | Qt hates performance regressions | 22:16 |
| lbt | and having it recently announced for Harmattan | 22:16 |
| lbt | well, we can't have that now can we ;) | 22:16 |
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| coldboot | Actually, the msg->input_window field never gets used in the eventFilter... | 22:16 |
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| fiferboy | I noticed about 6 comments in the 4.5.2 changelog that stated speed ups or fixes for raster | 22:16 |
| lbt | fiferboy: where? | 22:16 |
| lbt | are you using git? | 22:16 |
| lbt | if so sha# | 22:17 |
| fiferboy | I just looked through the changelog posted on the release announcement | 22:17 |
| lbt | ah | 22:17 |
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| lbt | you used gitk ? | 22:17 |
| fiferboy | http://www.qtsoftware.com/developer/changes/changes-4.5.2 | 22:17 |
| coldboot | This causes the bug: `msg->input_window = widget->winId();`, but is never used in QHildonInputContext::x11FilterEvent(), in fact, it's never used in any of the maemo code. | 22:18 |
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| coldboot | Here are all instances of input_window in the source: http://pastie.org/539020 | 22:19 |
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| lbt | coldboot: have you just removed it and seen if it still works... | 22:20 |
| lbt | it may well do so if it sends to the top level X window | 22:21 |
| lbt | IIRC gtk has a lot more native X11 windows | 22:21 |
| coldboot | lbt: I've already tried that, and things do work, but I have to put it on my device and make sure the rest of hildon stuff works. | 22:21 |
| coldboot | Do you guys have automated tests? | 22:21 |
| lbt | me? | 22:21 |
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| coldboot | I mean, does maemo have automated tests for hildon? | 22:21 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: Not that I know of | 22:22 |
| lbt | I wonder if there's a Qt test suite | 22:22 |
| coldboot | lbt: I mean, when I remove those two lines where msg->input_window is set to winId(), the flickering goes away, and nothing else is obviously broken. But I didn't test Hildon. | 22:22 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: You mean HildonInputMethod. That is likely all that would be affected | 22:23 |
| lbt | coldboot: does the virtual keyb still work | 22:23 |
| lbt | fiferboy: I hope that still works | 22:23 |
| coldboot | I'll have to compile it for arm, put it on the device, and try it. | 22:24 |
| lbt | if the input_window is not sent out then... | 22:24 |
| lbt | it's not used | 22:24 |
| coldboot | It's sent out, it's just never read. | 22:24 |
| coldboot | It's put in the XEvent::data struct. | 22:24 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: What are the line numbers you took out? | 22:25 |
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| lbt | for tests #qt says QtTest and http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/trees/master/tests | 22:25 |
| coldboot | src/gui/inputmethod/qhildoninputcontext_x11.cpp 408 and 1427, from svn version 546... | 22:25 |
| coldboot | Just search src/gui/inputmethod/qhildoninputcontext_x11.cpp for "input_window" and it's the only two hits. | 22:26 |
| coldboot | Both lines removed. | 22:26 |
| fiferboy | Thanks | 22:26 |
| coldboot | This git repo doesn't have qhildoninputcontext_x11.cpp: git://gitorious.org/+qt-maemo-developers/qt/qt-maemo.git | 22:26 |
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| lbt | coldboot: what branch? | 22:27 |
| lbt | try qt-diablo | 22:27 |
| lbt | ok, gotta go for a bit ... bbl | 22:28 |
| coldboot | Thanks | 22:29 |
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| coldboot | There's only the master branch for qt-maemo | 22:33 |
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| coldboot | Well, that's all I get when I do `git branch` after cloning qt-maemo | 22:34 |
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| fiferboy | git branch -a | 22:35 |
| fiferboy | You have to clone the origin/4.5 and then qt-diablo | 22:35 |
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| fiferboy | http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt#Building_Qt_from_GIT_rep | 22:35 |
| coldboot | ah | 22:35 |
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| fiferboy | Git still confuses me | 22:35 |
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| coldboot | fatal: git checkout: updating paths is incompatible with switching branches/forcing | 22:36 |
| coldboot | Did you intend to checkout 'origin/qt-4.5' which can not be resolved as commit? | 22:36 |
| coldboot | It's awesome, though. | 22:37 |
| coldboot | There's no reason to use subversion or CVS anymore. | 22:37 |
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| coldboot | Is anyone working on getting fakeroot working for scratchbox 2? | 22:40 |
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| fiferboy | git checkout -b 4.5 origin/4.5 | 22:42 |
| fiferboy | That wiki page is a little screwed up, I think | 22:42 |
| * RST38h yawns | 22:43 | |
| RST38h | What's new and exciting? | 22:43 |
| RST38h | Any good flames? Anyone has been bitching about Nokia not satisfying their expectations lately? | 22:44 |
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| VDVsx | RST38h, nokia promised me two hot girls bundled with my last device, and I only got a pair of stylus :( | 22:48 |
| johnsq | hehe | 22:49 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: You should interpret it as a suggestion =) | 22:49 |
| * VDVsx hides | 22:49 | |
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| * RST38h fixed ACBB, ACBW, and ACBL | 22:49 | |
| johnsq | they should rewrite QT in python. | 22:51 |
| suihkulokki | in C# to ensure free publicity | 22:52 |
| coldboot | Does anyone know how I can get one of my git commits into qt-maemo with Gitorious? | 22:52 |
| coldboot | I obviously don't have permission, but is there some way to queue it up for approval? | 22:52 |
| fiferboy | You can use git diff to make a patch to send into the qt4-maemo mailing list | 22:53 |
| fiferboy | Is your fix working? | 22:53 |
| coldboot | It's building. :) | 22:53 |
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| coldboot | I'll test it out and send the patch to the mailing list. | 22:53 |
| fiferboy | Sounds good. I hope to read tonight that it works fine and is being implemented! | 22:54 |
| coldboot | Out of curiosity, though, is there some cool way to submit patches with Gitorious? I think Github has it. | 22:55 |
| fiferboy | I'm not sure about commits, lbt would know | 22:56 |
| fiferboy | You could request membership to qt-maemo-developers on gitorious | 22:56 |
| fiferboy | They even let me join, so they aren't too picky | 22:56 |
| coldboot | oh cool | 22:56 |
| suihkulokki | coldboot: you can request merges at lest | 22:57 |
| coldboot | A merge with my fork? | 22:57 |
| coldboot | Ah yes. Cool. | 22:59 |
| coldboot | Git is really making everything easier for everyone. | 22:59 |
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| fiferboy | coldboot: Well, for those who understand it! | 23:00 |
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| infobot | I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power | 23:01 |
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| lbt | coldboot: you can create a gitorious clone of qt-maemo | 23:07 |
| lbt | and then request a pull | 23:07 |
| xnt14 | ok guys brb, im going to work xD | 23:11 |
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| infobot | I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power | 23:22 |
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| coldboot | Did I trigger that infobot post with my git mantra? | 23:25 |
| coldboot | Or was it RichiH joining the channel? | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | richih | 23:25 |
| coldboot | Ah it's RichiH. | 23:25 |
| RichiH | it's me, yah | 23:27 |
| RichiH | timriker hardcoded me into blootbot years ago | 23:27 |
| |thunder | test | 23:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | fanclub :P | 23:27 |
| RichiH | which is called infobot, these days | 23:27 |
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| lbt | coldboot: has to be said. qt-maemo and git is.... unclear | 23:31 |
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| tds5016 | hello. can someone help me fine and install the telepathy python api? | 23:41 |
| lbt | have you been here: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo | 23:42 |
| Luke-Jr | Maemo != Telepathy.. | 23:43 |
| tds5016 | lbt I've installed python. | 23:43 |
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| tds5016 | I just don't know how to install telepathy on maemo. | 23:43 |
| lbt | not a user myself ... but that's a good starting place :) | 23:43 |
| Luke-Jr | pretty sure telepathy itself is required for maemo | 23:43 |
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| tds5016 | does anyone know of any jabber apis for maemo? | 23:44 |
| caotic | I just found my lost n810 by ssh and mplayer :D | 23:44 |
| caotic | life is good | 23:44 |
| tds5016 | Luke-Jr: it may be, but I need the python api for it :-/. | 23:44 |
| johnsq | caotic: super | 23:45 |
| Luke-Jr | tds5016: Telepathy supports XMPP. Jabber is an XMPP service. | 23:45 |
| tds5016 | Luke-Jr: I need to be able to send and receieve messages to and from a jabber server. | 23:46 |
| tds5016 | how would I do this with python, I guess is the question I'm trying to ask. | 23:46 |
| Luke-Jr | shrug | 23:46 |
| Luke-Jr | I don't care much for Python | 23:46 |
| tds5016 | unfortunately on this project I have to :-/. | 23:46 |
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| tds5016 | I'm certainly not a fan of no semicolons, and no curly braces. | 23:47 |
| tds5016 | it makes it damned near impossible for me to read. | 23:47 |
| tds5016 | but... I need to use it for this :-/. | 23:47 |
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| Luke-Jr | actually, Python tolerates semicolons | 23:48 |
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| tds5016 | it does... but it's not standard practice. | 23:48 |
| johnsq | tds5016: #define BEGIN { :) | 23:48 |
| tds5016 | the curly braces are what really hurt. haha. | 23:48 |
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| tds5016 | johnsq: how do I install python libraries on maemo? | 23:50 |
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| johnsq | tds5016: I don't know, pythons is evil :) much more than c++ | 23:50 |
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| tds5016 | if only it didn't make using gstreamer so damned easy.... ;-) | 23:51 |
| tds5016 | haha. | 23:51 |
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| Shadow_M | there isnt nick complete for maemo xchat correct | 23:51 |
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| tds5016 | can anyone help me with how to install python libraries in maemo? | 23:53 |
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