IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-07-07

ShadowJKwish me luck00:00
Jaffalbt: done00:01
Stskeeps10 bucks there's some kind of watchdog00:01
Stskeepsevening jaffa00:01
lbtJaffa: thanks00:02
Luke-JrStskeeps: WTF00:03
Luke-JrStskeeps: why do you try terrorism on me if you think there's a watchdog?00:03
* Luke-Jr slaps a terrorist label on Stskeeps00:04
StskeepsLuke-Jr: because I also know engineers can be senile at times00:04
Stskeepswazd: ping00:06
* xnt14 is really bored00:06
* xnt14 sits down and plays around with processingjs00:06
wazdStskeeps: pong :)00:06
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* xnt14 tests it on his nit00:08
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xnt14:) it works fine :)00:09
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ShadowJK16 minutes, tablet lives still. now to restart bme :)00:17
ShadowJKbme restarted.. doing hal restart00:19
ShadowJKhey that's funny :-)00:20
Luke-Jrxnt14: that's … wtf?00:20
ShadowJKit was reporting 995mAh charge before00:22
Luke-JrShadowJK: RESULTS. NOW.00:22
ShadowJKand now 41600:23
ShadowJK500mAh in 15 minutes would be 2 amps of current. this should have made the tablet hot enough to fry an egg on the back cover00:23
ShadowJKit's cold though00:24
* ShadowJK waits for voltage readings00:24
jaskaportable omelet machine00:24
ShadowJKah gotta let it idle to get useful voltages00:25
xnt14luke-jr, random crap in processingjs00:26
xnt14now reload it:
xnt14and it runs smoothly on the nit ;)00:28
xnt14canvas is acting weird on my ipod....hmm...00:28
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ShadowJKwell if it did charge i can't tell :)00:32
ShadowJKpobably didnt00:32
ShadowJKI need to make something so I can measure current at charger port :)00:34
coldbootThe flashing QAbstractItemView bug is indeed because of the hildon input method.00:34
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JaffaAnyone know of any docs pointing to the best practices for power mgmt (preferably in Python)? e.g. which DBUS signals and Gtk+ signals to stop updates on etc.01:28
lbtJaffa: no... but please let us/me know what you find....01:29
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Macerit is like the day that never ended01:36
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lesouvageI have a nokia770 with os2006 and I want to install a msn client . I tried pidgin and gaim but pidgin didn't want to  install and gain can't find the protocol (that I had installed) when launched. Are there other option to get msn running (webenabled or an other client or a fix for what is going wrong now)01:47
jophishif nothing else works you could try a java based client online01:55
jophishunlikely to work though01:55
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jaem_N810hey folks02:08
jaem_N810I'm trying to use the webapp at, but after a minute or two of editing, it locks up both microB and Tear02:09
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jaem_N810I'm not entirely sure why, and I'm not great with JS, so I haven't looked under the hood02:10
jaem_N810it works fine on my desktop, though, using Firefox or a webkit-based browser02:10
Jaffalbt: Right, I've got an OSSO power save example. Now just need to find a window foreground/background thingy and I'll write it up02:12
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* Jaffa tries his first PyMaemo app in the Fremantle SDK (works on N810)02:39
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jaem_N810Jaffa: what is the app?02:41
JaffaA little accerometer based demo02:41
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* lcuk wobbles jaffas chair02:42
jaem_N810hey lcuk: any idea when you'll be making another release? The demo videos you keep posting are making me drool02:43
jaem_N810sorry... >_< I don't follow Twitter02:45
Pavlovlcuk: nice02:45
jaem_N810looking good... :)02:46
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JaffaBah, humbug. Fremantle SDK doesn't show anything except corruption when running on my box when doing anything fancy (e.g. app menus, cairo)02:58
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JaffaTsk, and you haven't even seen my code yet :-p03:08
GeneralAntillesThis screenshot is making me queasy03:08
lcukjaffa, that looks amazing :)03:09
GeneralAntillesCould just be the aftereffects of surgery, though. ;)03:09
GeneralAntillesJaff's going to bring X-Plane 1.0 to Maemo 5.03:09
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* Jaffa always wonders how big his wheelies are in his car ;-)03:09
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GeneralAntillesIsn't that thing FWD?03:10
JaffaAnyway, currently not planning on it being a game; just a false horizon/spirit level.03:10
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GeneralAntillesMaemo's first level application for $2.9903:10
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JaffaMaybe even combine with gps, so it shows you things going past proporionate to your speed, and proper height too03:11
GeneralAntillesHonestly, I'03:11
GeneralAntillesd just as soon see no app store on Maemo considering that all it'll bring is 1001 shitting $0.99-$2.99 "applications"03:11
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* Jaffa should go to bed03:30
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radicqwerty12_N810: good morning03:42
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finnI can't decide on a phone to go along with the n81005:05
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finnwhich will give me internet of some sorts (probably umts via bluetooth), have long battery runtime and not make me pay for fancy camera or mp3 players05:06
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johnxwhere are you and what carrier or are you on?05:08
finnI'm travelling at the moment (Hong Kong right now)05:09
finnI live in germany, but no idea when to go back05:09
finndon't have any phone or contracts05:09
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caoticMwhat is the deal with thid metalayer-crawlet that always show a 100+% load ?05:29
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man_in_shackcaoticM, it's something to do with building a multimedia metadata database, i think05:31
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caoticMi see , but takes a kick in the balls of my n810 processor05:31
man_in_shackyeah, i've had trouble with it too05:32
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man_in_shackhence why i looked it up in apt-cache show :D05:33
* caoticM just realized i am more drunk that i intended to be on monday05:33
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caoticMman_in_shack: do you use gpodder by any chance ? i think that uses the crawler05:41
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man_in_shackg-what-er? :P05:46
caoticMright so mistery solved05:47
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sarowerHello all, I want to use C++ with C. For this i am including a C++ header in a C file. When simply compiling without adding the header in the C file, it is ok. But when including the header.. it is giving the following error:08:56
sarower"TestClass.h:4: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'TestClass'08:56
sarowerTestClass.h:12: warning: ISO C does not allow extra ';' outside of a function08:56
sarowerAny body any idea please!08:57
sarowerIn file included from hello-world-home.c:25:08:58
sarowerTestClass.h:4: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'TestClass'08:58
sarowerTestClass.h:12: warning: ISO C does not allow extra ';' outside of a function08:58
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wazdmornin' maemo09:04
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kellhow to add a drawing_area into the plugin area of input method plugin ?09:21
kellThe drawing_area is a GtkWidget.09:22
kellIs there anybody who is familar with it? could you give me a tip?09:23
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* timsamoff wants to zzz.09:42
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X-Fadetimsamoff: Skipping sleep today? :)09:56
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aquatixmorning all10:18
pupniksept conference still a go?10:19
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X-Fadepupnik: No? It is in October?10:27
X-FadeOctober 9-10-1110:28
pupnikahh ty10:29
wazd <- hehe, I'm still lovin' my logo :(10:29
pupnikit is possible to rent a house or boat for a few days10:29
pupnikmight be cheaper / more fun than hotel10:29
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pupniki need a pixel shader xpert10:33
wazdpupnik: if you'll find him - send him to me :P10:34
JaffaMorning, all10:41
wazdJaffa: heya10:45
sarower Hello all, I want to use C++ with C. For this i am including a C++ header in a C file. When simply compiling without adding the header in the C file, it is ok. But when including the header.. it is giving the following error:10:46
sarower"TestClass.h:4: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'TestClass'10:46
sarowerTestClass.h:12: warning: ISO C does not allow extra ';' outside of a function10:46
sarowerIn file included from hello-world-home.c:25: TestClass.h:4: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'TestClass'TestClass.h:12: warning: ISO C does not allow extra ';' outside of a function10:47
sarowerany idea..?10:47
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radicwhen I connect to an network the there are many python-instances that make a lot of load...10:52
X-Fadesarower: I suggest you ask the question on the maemo-developers mailinglist or
wazdStskeeps: heya10:55
X-Fadesarower: No need to keep repeating yourself, as there are obviously no people here with the answer for you.10:55
sarowerX-Fade: Ok thank you10:55
sarowerX-Fade: Ok i am so sorry!10:56
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Andy80has anyone of you worked with MAFW?10:57
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RST38hMoo all11:06
pupniki didnt know you could mix c++ with c11:07
pupnikhi RST38h11:07
wazdRST38h: hooah11:07
RST38hpupnik: You can, carefully.11:07
RST38hhey wazd, pupnik11:08
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* RST38h yawns11:52
RST38hAnything new and exciting?11:53
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lcukis there anyway to import a GTK glade designed interface layout and make a baseline qt project from it12:24
lcuksomething that might allow creative gtk coders to not have to start completely from scratch..12:24
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RST38hlcuk: No12:26
RST38hGTK and Qt qre completely separate entities, although there was some work on sharing the themes between two12:26
lcukthey might be seperate - but the gtk layout file says "make a window this big, put a checkbox here, a label there and a panel over here"12:27
lcukif i can use visual basic in windows to create liq* form layouts i am damned sure someone could take the XML given out by glade and at least give a baseline template qt app out the other side12:28
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RST38hlcuk: Why don't you simply write a converter?12:29
RST38hlcuk: Shouldn't be hard to do in PERL or something similar12:29
lcuki dont know perl and ive got my own stuff to do, i work with what i understand12:30
lcukand as a vb developer i used the vb addins model and introspection to tell me what to create12:30
wazddamn, Michael Bay really knows homw to make things awesome :D
RST38hlcuk: Actually... "Qt Designer has been tested with Glade files up to version 0.6.0 and might work with later versions as well."12:32
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RST38hlcuk: and search for "Glade" there12:32
lcukgood, so maybe that could do with some hilighting :) if people are being made to uproot themselves, better to give themselves a familiar picture on the otherside12:33
RST38hwazd: Have you seen the classic creepy Verizon commercial though?12:35
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wazdRST38h: nope, but I'm sure it's Bay that made it awesome :)12:35
RST38hwazd: Actually, the whole commercial was animated12:37
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RST38hwazd: With a huge hairy monster chasing the customer and then hugging him12:38
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RST38hGiven that it was the Phone Company commercial...12:38
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wazdOh my, Sabbath Elevator is really Epic :)13:04
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sarowerWhen i am compiling  a C file by g++ it is not working. Do any body knows....? why?13:22
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sarowerBut if i compile by gcc it works fine!13:24
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florianhi murrayc13:27
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lcuksarower, it helps to know what errors its throwing up, and isnt g++ the c++ compiler13:31
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sarowerlcuk: No error creating but not executing13:33
sarowerlcuk: yes g++ is c ++ compilker13:33
lcuktell you what  :) pastebin your entire console log for building and running the app and maybe someone will post some insight13:34
lcuksince you are building with c++ doesnt it make sense the g++ would be expecting a c++ entry point instead of a generic c main()13:34
* lcuk doesnt know tho13:34
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sarowerlcuk: yes you are right and most probably it is the problem and g++ is not getting the entry point as it is applet....for maemo13:36
lcukwhy not use gcc for making your obvious c thing and forget all about g++ in this instance (unless you have overriding specific needs and which you will need to port more13:37
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sarowerlcuk: cause i want to use c++ user defined class (header) and c++ things from this file.13:39
lcukthen you are going to have to readup on how to develop a c++ application and how to integrate standard c code into it13:45
lcukits certainly not maemo specific and its fairly routine to do13:45
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sarowerlcuk: Integrating C++ into C code....13:50
sarowerlcuk: not c into C++....13:50
X-Fadelbt: ping?13:51
lcuknot directly possible i  believe - UNLESS you can use shared libs - then each .so file can be written in its own language and they all use standard ld/elf entry points13:51
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murraycWhat size SD cards do we need to put maemo on beagleboards?13:52
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Stskeeps1gb or so?13:52
RST38hsarower: Please remember what you promised13:53
murrayclcuk: I think the answer for him was just "compile it as C++". He's confused.13:53
lcukmurrayc "<sarower> When i am compiling  a C file by g++ it is not working. Do any body knows....? why?"13:53
murraycStskeeps: Cheers.13:53
lcukand i answered that13:53
murrayclcuk: He should probably just call it .cc instea dof .c.13:53
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murrayclcuk: OK. Thanks.13:54
Stskeepsmurrayc: going to try out the new HIM on beagleboard?13:54
murraycNo, it's not related to HIM.13:56
murraycThe beagleboards are just to play with.13:56
RST38hmurrayc: The answer is "read C/C++ programming books"13:56
Stskeepsalright - you said you had issues with HIM in the SDK, hence my question :)13:57
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murraycStskeeps: The HIM library has undefined symbols right now and I get no response from the developers.14:00
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murraycStskeeps: Well, it will have undefined symbols when you see the next version.14:00
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timsamoffX-Fade: Don't now when you pinged me, but... Yes, I didn't get much sleep. I've got a contract where I'm working with some developers in India. Yawn.14:24
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Andy80timsamoff, hi14:55
practisevoodoohas anyone got the updated url string to get google sat working in maemo mapper again?14:55
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timsamoffAndy80: Hello... Sorry, dealing with a grumpy little boy this morning. :)14:55
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Stskeepswas the sprint meeting already btw?14:56
timsamoffStskeeps: Not until 13:30 UTC... But, maybe not at all.14:57
Andy80timsamoff, I'm in a tea-pause now :)14:57
pupnik_Andy80, u german?14:58
timsamoffAndy80: That's good! :)14:58
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timsamoffAndy80: So you made it to work anyway?14:59
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Andy80pupnik_, no, italian, working in Spain :P15:00
Andy80timsamoff, yes, I'm here in the office15:00
timsamoffAndy80: Good to hear.15:00
pupnik_ok, germans call it a tee-pause15:00
Andy80didn't know it pupnik_15:00
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StskeepsJaffa: idea.. since Harmattan will basically turn everything up and down - cleaning everything up, etc, talk to Nokia about higher community involvement in it?15:02
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X-FadeStskeeps: I think that is already the idea. Quim talked about more co-development etc?15:03
RST38hDid he?15:03
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Stskeeps*nod* we should look into it for sure.. i mean, we are starting to mobilize quite a few people in Mer15:03
Stskeepsand it sounds like Harmattan has many of the same goals15:04
X-FadeI think we will see more about that when Fremantle finally ships. But yeah.15:05
Stskeepswork has already started though - glib 2.20 and such15:05
Stskeepswhich looks a hell lot saner in harmattan15:05
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pupnik_which gcc is used?15:08
Stskeepslast i saw, gcc4? :P15:08
RST38hYou know what is the most surprising part?15:09
pupnik_k.  lots of work to optimise results for arm  still?15:09
RST38hoFono has not been mentioned among Fremantle components.15:10
StskeepsRST38h: marketing secret still probably15:10
RST38hSts: Ah come one, it is an open framework15:10
RST38hYou can look at the source code straight from the CVS15:11
StskeepsRST38h: yeah, i know, but implying that fremantle has it.. :P15:11
RST38hHmmm...yes, I see... Phone functionality has never been officially announced15:11
JaffaIt's just a smaller screened, more pocketable device with lots of references in its source code to telephony & GSM.15:12
JaffaOf *course* it's not a phone15:12
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Andy80timsamoff, what is the channel of the meeting? this or another one?15:16
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JaffaAndy80: #maemo-meeting15:19
timsamoffAndy80 (and everyone): The meeting is held in #maemo-meeting.15:19
timsamoffJaffa: :p15:19
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Andy80don't know if I'll able to discuss, but I'll try to follow a bit15:20
amrthere's a maemo meeting? :o15:20
Andy80timsamoff, I think we should twitter this :D it would have more visibility15:21
timsamoffAndy80: I think it's gottenplenty of exposure. ;)15:22
Andy80timsamoff, uhm.... you undervalue facebook+twitter ;)15:24
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timsamoffAndy80: No.... I tried it before, but certain people said it wasn't even enough! :p15:24
timsamoffAnd, there are SO many social avenues to keep track of.15:25
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* timsamoff takes son to daycare.15:26
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Andy80are you sure there's enough visibility? Cannot find anything on (home page), nor wiki :\15:32
VDVsxJaffa, Stskeeps , about the co-development idea, there will be some session about it in the summit:
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Stskeepsmm, guess i have to show up for that15:35
VDVsxhello dneary :)15:35
dnearyVDVsx: /join #maemo-meeting?15:35
VDVsxdneary, I'm there too :)15:36
* Stskeeps still wonders what to submit a talk on15:36
VDVsxStskeeps, mer ??? :P15:37
Stskeepswell, yes, but what within ;)15:37
Stskeepsi wonder if we can present Mer 1.0 at that point really15:38
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* Jaffa 's idea of "Vala for Maemo development" is kinda scuppered - not worth long term investment given its so GObject based and Qt's the future15:39
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Stskeepsyeah, i'm still pondering the long term consequences of this stuff15:41
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RST38hNo long term consequences, lots of short term ones15:42
Stskeepswell long term consequences for mer, too :)15:42
Stskeepswe have qt as a first class citizen though15:42
* xnt14 is at work........with his xps xD15:42
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RST38hAs in "will have to abandon Fremantle and start completely rewriting all apps right away"15:43
xnt14and with an HD monitor15:43
xnt14but these display settings are crap.....15:43
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xnt14~seen b-man1615:44
infobotb-man16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 22h 34m 48s ago, saying: ':P'.15:44
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lcukStskeeps, will the lesser devices suit qt upheavel or are they best remaining as gtk15:51
Stskeepsqt is fine on them15:52
Stskeepsadd in maemo-launcher support and it's nice15:52
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VDVsxsuch a wasting: (the beer of course) ;)15:59
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timsamoffVDVsx: I'd still drink the beer. :p16:02
VDVsxtimsamoff, ;)16:02
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wazdRST38h: <- check it out :)16:08
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VDVsxwazd, wazd, ,ehehehe, it's CC licensed ?16:13
wazdVDVsx: you bet :)16:14
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RST38hwazd: Do I see a subliminal message there? =)16:23
wazdRST38h: hmm, no :P16:24
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* xnt14 is very bored.....16:28
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wazddamn, wmplayer hanged my system again... what the heck...16:32
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wazd_n800damn, that sucks16:34
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orangeyhey all16:36
orangeyis there a way to make it so that only my telephone / SIP comms go through my bluetooth headset?16:37
wazd_n800hello there16:37
orangeyfor example, I don't particularly want the ringer to be via the headset16:37
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wazd_n800emmm..., guys, who has omweather  near right now?16:39
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orangeyI do16:41
wazd_ok, expecting screaming OMWeather users on t.m.o. in 10 minutes :)16:41
wazd_orangey: try to upload the weather16:41
orangeywhat do you mean by that?16:41
wazd_orangey: er, refresh16:41
wazd_orangey: sorry :)16:41
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wazd_looks like OMW is down :(16:42
orangey"Did not download weather"16:42
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orangeyit's been down a few hours16:42
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wazd_Vlad is trying to figure out what's wrong right now16:49
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* xnt14 wonders how to parse xml from bash.......16:55
StskeepsSAX maybe16:56
* xnt14 googles SAX16:56
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xnt14okay...? wtf?
* Jaffa doesn't fancy writing a content handler in bash!16:58
Jaffaxnt14: xalan to pull out specific xpath entries?16:59
xnt14jaffa, well, I would be happy if the dreamhost api gave output in other formats....16:59
* xnt14 googles16:59
xnt14um guys, I need bash :P17:00
xnt14bash compatible17:00
finnreformated the sd card again and I still get the no filesystem available error :(17:00
wazd_damn, sucks17:01
xnt14well the dh api has json output......17:01
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wazd_ok, fix is comming, don't pannic :)17:04
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Jaffaxnt14: Run xalan from within bash, capture its output. But you've said "parse XML", when what you probably want to do is something with the XML, once parsed.17:09
xnt14basically I want to take the output of the dreamhost api domains list command and display it in the zenity list view, then I want to take the output of the clicked item and open another window showing the available actions17:11
* xnt14 tries that17:11
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xnt14heres my code right now:
xnt14i changed the api key to the test one17:17
xnt14"If you would like to test the DreamHost API without having your own account, you may use the API Key 6SHU5P2HLDAYECUM" ~dh wiki17:17
GAN800dneary, don't look at is as an attack on the people, but an attack on Nokia's continued incompetence. ;)17:18
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dnearyGAN800: See, it's an attack on the Nokia people's continued incompetence17:18
dnearyGAN800: And that's what I hope people can understand17:19
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dnearyIt's like people who attack Novell & Mono - this affects the Novell & mono team17:19
GAN800Nokia should have alotted more time and resources to making sure it was good, they didn't, this is the response.17:19
dnearyIt's not just technical criticism17:19
GAN800Users are like that.17:19
dnearyI'd've loved someone to say "this is a great document, and it's great that we have it, and I'm glad I have a chance to make it better"17:20
dnearyGAN800: Communities aren't17:20
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GAN800dneary, Talk is mostly composed of users, though.17:21
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dnearyGAN800: If that were true, the people who are working really really hard to try to make the community happy wouldn't be reading it17:22
dnearyGAN800: The issue is getting Talk community members to consider that they're hurting people's feelings17:22
GAN800Good luck17:22
dnearyThe reaction may be "awww, poor baby, his feelings were hurt"17:22
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GAN800Really,  I'm the last person you ever want to bring THAT up to. :)17:23
dnearybut the reality is, when people are working 60 to 80 hours a week to get things like the HIG out on top of all the other work they have to do, and "this is shit" is the reaction, that's disheartening17:23
RST38hdneary: I do not see any real efforts to make community happy17:23
RST38hdneary: right now the whole thing starts looking like a pr cluster fuck17:23
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dnearyRST38h: That's your opinion, and I respect it. Right now, I just want everyone on Talk to have a little respect for my friends actually doing the work17:24
VDVsxGAN800, I would say for tmo: 80% users and 20% dev's17:24
RST38hdneary: trying to ignore this unfortunate fact isn't going to change it17:24
dnearyI will note that the one guy who said "I'll do it all, don't worry" did nothing17:25
RST38hdneary: That's your wish, and I respect it :) You won't be able to get the same respect from the Anonymous though.17:25
RST38hdneary: Can I suggest something? A minimal effort, really, but one that will win respect back for Maemo team?17:26
orangeyhas anybody gotten ko/pi working on maemo?17:26
wazd_am I missing something while doing things?)17:27
RST38hwazd: Ah, nothing, just a bit more forum politics...17:27
GAN800dneary, be happy they've managed to stick to attacking their work and not them as people. :)17:28
dnearyRST38h: We lost respect?17:28
RST38hdneary: Yes. In my opinion of course.17:29
dnearyRST38h: Make your suggestion. The worst that happen will be that I disagree with you17:29
RST38hGAN: That would be too low17:29
wazd_RST38h: can you give me a link, I need something to read while coffee break :)17:29
RST38hdneary: You will simply ignore it, as always, but I will try17:29
RST38hwazd: Any of the "Where is Nokia" threads17:29
wazd_RST38h: oh, I don't read those :)17:30
RST38hdneary: Start releasing small updates to Diablo backend packages to Extras-Devel17:30
X-FadeCommunity work is like caring for a wounded animal, even though you try to do good, you still get scratched and bitten ;)17:30
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RST38hdneary: camel, bluez, that kind of things17:30
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RST38hX-Fade: Only if you are holding it the wrong way =)17:31
dnearyRST38h: If I disagree with you, I will say "I disagree with you", that's not ignoring you17:31
VDVsxupgrade bluez in diablo == fuck all the bluez app around :P17:31
X-FadeRST38h: We( are talking with Nokia about taking over care of diablo after Fremantle gets out.17:31
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RST38hX-Fade: The actuall updates better start right now.17:31
dnearyRST38h: That's a good idea. In fact, I'd love to see someone from outside the Maemo team take over a patckage they care about17:31
X-FadeRST38h: We can then do SSUs to update these things.17:32
X-FadeRST38h: I agree with you, but that is just not possible.17:32
RST38hX-Fade: just push out whatever bug fixes have not been released uet.17:32
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RST38hX-Fade: Why is that impossible?17:32
dnearyRST38h: I don't have the skills to do that, but it's a good idea. You should propose it in Bugzilla or Ideastorm17:32
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X-FadeRST38h: There is just nobody available for it.17:32
RST38hX-Fade: Nokia has got the packages, the fixes are already done, why not package and release?17:32
coldbootHow do you get findutils installed on scratchbox's arm target?17:33
coldbootIt's not in diablo...17:33
Stskeepsmost things are already out there but someone needs to sit down and do it17:33
RST38hX-Fade: This does nto require significant time17:33
RST38hX-Fade: So, I hardly believe nobody can do it17:33
X-FadeRST38h: We need to get Nokia to push our key through SSU one time.17:33
X-FadeRST38h: After that, we should be able to push updates ourselves.17:33
StskeepsRST38h: whole community variant thing does take significant logistics17:34
coldbootI was able to download an x86 version, but the arm version says it's not compatible with "armel", and forcing it to install just says it can't find `/lib/'17:34
RST38hX-Fade: But I am not talking about the whole community dev thing17:34
JaffaX-Fade: did Nokia say they'd be happy to do that? I remember you saying it was discussed at the mozmae weekend17:34
X-FadeRST38h: But that needs a lot of planning with lawyers, integration etc.17:34
RST38hX-Fade: I am talking about releasing updates to the packages Nokia already has, fixed17:34
X-FadeJaffa: Yes, they are.17:34
RST38hX-Fade: No lawyers or integration involved17:34
X-FadeJaffa: But also only after Fremantle is out.17:34
StskeepsRST38h: only possible through ssu17:34
RST38hSts: SSU is nothing more than a bunch of DEBs now, isn't it?17:35
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X-FadeRST38h: That is not true.17:35
StskeepsRST38h: yeah but there's trusted domains and such17:35
X-FadeRST38h: It is a meta package with specific dependencies.17:35
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X-FadeRST38h: To update the metapackage, we need to be the trusted party.17:35
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X-FadeAnd updating a random system package without it, will break SSU.17:36
JaffaRST38h: The App Mgr won't install any SSU packages from extras-devel without flipping some bits in one of its configuration files.17:36
JaffaRST38h: So, ideally, Nokia would push out an SSU which would flip those bits. Alternatively, we could create a package which users would have to install to get community updates.17:37
StskeepsRST38h: community updates will come, eventually. the know how and people exist, but noone sane would do it in their free time17:37
Stskeepsway too big logistics involved17:37
JaffaRST38h: Your assistance is welcome, since this is entirely community (i.e. volunteer) driven - and there's a technical plan on the maemo-developers mailing list17:37
Stskeepswe have most of the path laid already17:38
RST38hJaffa: Sorry, this is not the immediate problem I have been trying to address with the proposal to dneary17:38
RST38hJaffa: The immediate problem is to show that the Maemo Devices actually *cares* about its users17:38
JaffaRST38h: I thought you wanted updates to existing packages pushed out?17:38
dnearyRST38h: I disagree with your premise. I like your idea. I disagree with the benefit of the end result.17:38
JaffaRST38h: Right, but there's not much dneary can do about that since he works for, not Maemo Devices17:39
RST38hJaffa: And the minimal-effort solution to this problem is to continue pushing out Diablo updates every now and then17:39
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X-FadeRST38h: That effort is not as minimal as you think.17:39
JaffaRST38h: I don't think anyone here disagrees that that would be good. See above for the obstacles to any of us doing it.17:39
RST38hJaffa: Then he should not complain about the tone of t.m.o becoming hostile.17:39
X-FadeRST38h: That includes certification, testing, doc updates etc etc.17:39
JaffaIf you think installing an extra package would be fine, and/or want to work & test that, I'd be very happy.17:39
RST38hX-Fade: Let me see17:40
GAN800dneary, my own suggestion is for more of these people to come out in the community if they need help.17:40
RST38hX-Fade: Doc updates - none, as long as we are talking about the backend17:40
RST38hX-Fade: Testing - Extras-Devel will do it for you17:40
X-FadeRST38h: Sdk updates, docs need to be regenerated.17:40
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RST38hX-Fade: Certification - not unless the code has anything to do with the RF part, and even there is it doubtful17:41
StskeepsRST38h: can't update a package from device through e-d17:41
* Jaffa agrees with GAN800 in his assessment. Nothing against the people involved, but it's been put out - by Nokia - as the Fremantle HIG; and it's unfinished and been under-resourced.17:41
X-FadeJaffa: Fremantle HIG beta.17:41
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RST38hSts: I can't install a new bluez with dpkg?17:41
RST38hSts: Or a new camel?17:41
X-FadeRST38h: No, that will break your SSU.17:42
coldbootDoes anyone know how to install findutils in scratchbox for armel? It's essential for building Qt...17:42
qwerty12_N810This repo has to be signed with a Nokia key? The way I see it is that you add any signed repo with a trust-level of 400.17:42
StskeepsRST38h: sure you can, but you can't assume a user would be able to..17:42
VDVsxrsalveti, and your bluetooth system17:42
VDVsxups RST38h ^^17:42
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RST38hSts: That is ok, as we are talking about a bunch of power users from tmo17:42
JaffaX-Fade: OK, true.17:42
GAN800RST38h, don't mix issues.17:43
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: But you can't write to these settings?17:43
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StskeepsRST38h: packages already exists, just not compiled17:43
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: That's correct. And there's already a key in there (AIUI). So, it's just a case of increasing extras' trust-level.17:43
GAN800Fremantle HIG, Diablo updates, and staff are separate things.17:43
RST38hSts: Then why not compile and release?17:43
JaffaX-Fade: We can. We just need to install a package to do it.17:43
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: Nokia does it by installing a plan package that uses hildon-application-manager-config to add this repo17:43
X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, but that needs manual instal of the package.17:43
StskeepsRST38h: see it the other way, why dont the power users?17:43
infobotqwerty12_N810 meant: X-Fade: Nokia does it by installing a plain package that uses hildon-application-manager-config to add this repo17:44
Stskeepsit's all out thered17:44
JaffaX-Fade: Yeah. We could, if we knew it was coming down the line, prepare and test that package, though.17:44
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Stskeepspublic svn17:44
RST38hSts: Because all the "normal" users must have forgotten about their N810s already =)17:44
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X-FadeJaffa: I wouldn't mind testing that.17:44
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RST38hSts: And if a normal user does want to install experimental updates there are power users to help17:45
qwerty12_N810Personally, I wouldn't want Extras to be the SSU repo. Another server on, certainly, but Extras can be like a nuclear warhead testing ground.17:45
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JaffaX-Fade: WHich is why I was inviting RST38h to help us out ;-)17:45
Stskeepswhat is the problem with a e-d package or .install that installs a repo and key anyway?17:46
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Jaffaqwerty12_N810: true, Extras already exists tho'17:46
Stskeepse, i mean17:46
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: yeah, we could use a separate component for it.17:46
JaffaStskeeps: Nothing. It'll work. It's just not "seamless"17:46
JaffaWhich means that most users will miss out.17:46
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: free non-free community-firmware-updates :)17:46
JaffaBut if we're going to get some assistance from Nokia, doing all the work now and testing it so it's seamless post-Nokia'-shelp would be sensible.17:46
StskeepsJaffa: yes, but they can discover then..17:46
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: That has a nice ring to it :)17:47
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: nice and short too :)17:47
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StskeepsJaffa: when we have the non seamless working its easier to convince nokia to add as a ssus17:47
JaffaStskeeps: agreed 100%17:49
Stskeepsi'm kinda tired of people demanding a house instead of taking a shovel, find some friends and materials and build a house..17:49
JaffaSo, if Nokia's on board (although I've only got X-Fade's word for that ;-)), I suggest we think about steaming ahead17:49
X-FadeJaffa: Stskeeps was in the meeting too ;)17:49
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JaffaX-Fade: still, I'd like to see something from Nokia on the maemo-developers thread (although your word is good enough, I'd like to have a stick for future use if necessary ;-))17:50
Stskeepssame thing needed for mer as with maemo, so yeah17:50
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RST38hSts: Building houses on somebody else's land has proven to be unreliable over years17:50
StskeepsRST38h: nokia isn't apple17:51
RST38hSts: Have I mentioned Apple? =)17:51
timsamoffJaffa: Did the meeting commence? Is it over?17:51
X-Fadetimsamoff: You missed it.17:51
timsamoffX-Fade: thought so... Thanks./17:52
X-Fadetimsamoff: Will put up a log asap.17:52
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timsamoffIt's all right... I was just wondering. ;)17:52
Stskeepsno, but it is a fair comparison. maemo is fertile ground and iphoneos tries actively to remove any community hacks..17:53
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Stskeepswe'd be in a lot different situation if we actively built houses in the community :P17:56
X-FadeMore do-ers, less talkers..17:57
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* xnt14 gets bored18:03
* xnt14 plays nexuiz18:03
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xnt14well first I need to compile it from svn :P18:04
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coldbootWhy does Maemo use busybox?18:06
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nomiscoldboot: why not?18:08
coldbootIt's missing a bunch of things like a decent version of find.18:08
pupnikit is small18:08
RST38hyou can install find18:08
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coldbootWhere do you get it?18:08
pupnikand bsd vi18:08
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pupnikconsole-* ?18:08
coldbootpupnik: What repository is findutils in?18:09
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xnt14brb, going to my friend's business....xD18:09
coldbootfindutils is not in any of these repositories:
qwerty12_N810You say you've got a scratchbox ;)18:10
andre__maybe nobody has packaged it yet? :-P18:11
coldbootThis is one of the big things about scratchbox that sucks.18:11
coldbootRather, the maemo repositories, they're missing things like 'find'.18:11
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pupniki have find on tablet18:13
pupnikno idea where it came from18:13
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coldbootpupnik: What repositories do you have on the tablet?18:13
coldbootpupnik: cat /etc/apt/sources.list18:13
andre__maybe sth like coreutils? shrug18:14
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coldbootNope, I have that installed and I don't have find.18:14
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qwerty12_N810I replaced busybox's coreutils with the real coreutils on the device and I'd get "ls -la",  amongst others, giving me segfaults :(18:15
coldbootI don't know why they chose to make the primary drive for these stupid devices 256mb.18:16
coldbootIf they didn't, we wouldn't be using crappy busybox.18:16
pupniksorry no, my find is from busybox18:17
X-Fadecoldboot: It is not only that. RAM usage is also a lot lower.18:17
Stskeepscoldboot: nah, that's not the reason18:17
coldbootStskeeps: Why, then?18:18
pupnikcoldboot, set up a system partition on sd card and go crazy18:18
coldbootI've already installed findutils from source, I'm just saying.18:18
Stskeepslegacy, and 77018:18
pupnik/dev/mtdblock4          255488    211612     43876  83%   doin ok here18:19
Stskeepscoreutils add 4m flash18:19
Stskeepswith bash included, and dash18:19
Stskeepsafter docpurge and stuff18:20
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pupniki am like the grim reaper in /usr/share18:22
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Stskeepswb brankinhu18:27
wazd_Gmail Finally Comes Out of Beta18:27
brankinhuStskeeps: ??18:27
Stskeepsbrankinhu: nm :P18:27
coldbootSeems like Microsoft has the opposite philosophy.18:28
brankinhuStskeeps: what is wb and nm? ò.Ó18:29
Stskeepsbrankinhu: welcome back, and never mind..18:29
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wazd_I need food :)18:34
Stskeepsi just ordered pizza18:35
wazd_I think I'm gonna visit McD again)18:35
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wazd_oh no, I can't get out, OMWeather isn't working, I can't see current temperature(18:36
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GAN800wazd_, too much McDonald's is bad for you.18:37
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wazd_GAN800: i know :(18:40
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wazd_VDVsx: OMG, bluemaemo started to work :D18:50
VDVsxwazd_, lol18:51
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wazd_GAN800: see, McD is not always bad :D18:52
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wazd_Vista bt manager doesn't have "disconnect" button18:58
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wazd_the only thing I have to say for this is "What the fuck?!"18:59
qwerty12_N810MS Bluetooth stack sucks balls18:59
wazd_qwerty12_N810: well, it works fine but UI is really awful19:00
qwerty12_N810I hated it; even on a Pocket PC I preferred Broadcomm's offering. In XP, I'm free of the MS one but Broadcomm's one for Vista just extends the MS one :(19:01
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lbtX-Fade: hi... I want to automatically update wiki pages using a local script... any suggestions? eg:
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RST38hreMoo all20:30
woglindejo rst20:31
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* Stskeeps ponders idly what insanity has hit the pope20:54
Stskeeps(re  )20:54
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RST38hSts: Ran out of blood maybe?20:55
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wazd_Pope Benedict XVI on Tuesday called for a radical rethinking of the global economy20:55
wazd_Pope = captain Obvious :)20:56
wazd_Very slow version of him :D20:56
Stskeepsbeing from a religious background (not so much anymore), i think it's rather absurd the pope, of all people, suggests a world political authority (revelations) .. and for money, too (revelations)20:56
Stskeepsi mean.. wtf20:56
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RST38hSts:  =)20:59
RST38h(sorry, couldn't find a better source)21:00
pupniki still sometimes am amazed by the n810.   imagining a world without it21:00
StskeepsRST38h: hehe21:00
wazd_RST38h: what the hell is that :D21:00
StskeepsRST38h: i just think that guy is really trying hard to be called the antichrist or something..21:01
RST38hwazd: Apparently, the Pope carries a briefcase of fresh blood everywhere he goes21:01
RST38hSts: Somehow, I suspect that after he played the Emperor in the StarWars he should no longer care about Antichrist analogies...21:01
* Stskeeps shakes his head21:02
Stskeepsright, so the world went to hell while i was on music festival, good to know21:03
RST38hWhat happened?21:03
RST38hI thought the next apocalypsis is due in August, as usual?21:03
Stskeepsah, yes, pandora release? ;)21:03
RST38hReally? No way?21:04
wazd_Stskeeps: nowai it wiould be released in August21:04
Stskeepsno idea, shouldn't surprise me it would align close with the apocalypse21:04
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Stskeeps is excellent.21:05
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wazd_Stskeeps: Maya predicted Pandora release, it would be in 2012 :)21:05
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Stskeeps(refresh it)21:05
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wazd_Stskeeps: ahahaha :) awesome :D21:05
Stskeepswhat is people's obsession with Angstrom anyway?21:05
wazd_Stskeeps: a bit cruel though :)21:05
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Stskeepswazd_: carrot in front of your eyes, on a stick..21:06
pupniki have no obsession.  i wish the maemo/gentoo-arm/android/angstrom folks would merge like borg and kill WinCE21:06
pupnikhmm.  maybe i do have obsession21:07
Stskeepspupnik: every mobile distribution without sufficient central control will diverge towards using enlightement, and then dying slowly from the use of it21:07
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pupnikStskeeps, wish i could torrent dl your knowledge of the scene21:07
Stskeepspupnik: nah, it'd just make you want to kill people21:08
rkirtiStskeeps: Angstrom does rock :)21:08
Stskeepsrkirti: from developer point of view, or user? :P21:09
rkirtiStskeeps: ah, /me not developing on it. For a user it does.21:09
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* ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:]21:33
ENTERANICKit works21:33
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Stskeepsif that's you b-man, you need to be beaten, really21:35
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Guest1030_800any complete tutorial for run a ''virtual'' complete n810 fully fonctionnal and operationnal on my ubuntu pc?23:19
Guest1030_800if this think its possible23:20
woglindeyou mean the image with full scratchbox enviroment?23:20
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Guest1030_800no i mean a full operationnal tablet but on my pc23:21
Guest1030_800for use like a real one but on my pc23:21
Guest1030_800i dont know if its really possible23:21
Guest1030_800but i try to find a way for23:21
woglindeyeah thats what scratchbox can do23:22
Guest1030_800so i installed all sb, sdk and xephyr23:22
Guest1030_800but what i make after for run a complete ''virtual'' tablet in it23:23
woglindewhy you need this?23:23
woglindetry to emulate it with qemu23:23
Guest1030_800i just want a run a full tablet on my pc simply23:24
woglindeargs you mean you want to run full maemo?23:26
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Guest1030_800its possible??23:26
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woglindedont know23:28
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lbtwhat roles are sponsored by the maemo community? Eg docmaster23:58

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