| Macer | Luke-Jr: the stock email client seemed to work well | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Macer | i usually used claws tho | 00:00 |
| amr | my uni imap email works fine | 00:00 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: I couldn't get it to work | 00:00 |
| amr | as does my gmail | 00:00 |
| milhouse | BP-4L in the N810 is 1500mAh - so smaller :( Typical decision by Nokia, gain on the one hand, lose on the other! | 00:01 |
| milhouse | (if true about the 5800) | 00:01 |
| GAN800 | yeah, rumors, so who knows. | 00:01 |
| johnx | well, if that's the design flaw in the rover then it's not too bad :) | 00:01 |
| GAN800 | I can't imagine them being so space starved as to justify it. | 00:02 |
| johnx | GAN800, :) | 00:02 |
| * GAN800 suspects the design flaw will be a phone that only really operates in landscape. | 00:02 | |
| milhouse | LOL | 00:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | N-Gage2k9 | 00:02 |
| johnx | GAN800, probably for fremantle, yes | 00:02 |
| Macer | guess i'll watch lois and clark | 00:03 |
| Macer | never seenit | 00:03 |
| * GAN800 fears Fremantle is going to be Maemo's Newton 100 | 00:03 | |
| Macer | GAN800: haha | 00:03 |
| Macer | of course it is :) | 00:03 |
| GAN800 | Establish a platform stigma they'll never get past. | 00:03 |
| johnx | I think as long as all the fremantle devices run harmattan just fine, and as long as this "community supported gtk+" really shows up on harmattan | 00:04 |
| milhouse | I think Nokia are unsure about Symbian or Linux... Symbian seems to be going nowhere (even if there is the Symbian Foundation - Nokia seem to have unrealistic ideas about the open source community and what they can achieve) so Linux might be the new hope for Linux... which means Maemo... and on the basis of the previous releases I think thats a very big risk | 00:04 |
| johnx | if either of those fail to appear, than yeah, it could be painful for them | 00:04 |
| johnx | I'm just starting to get tired of them moving the goal posts *sigh* | 00:05 |
| milhouse | I went and took a look at the Symbian Foundation web site the other day - you have to register because it's in "Beta" mode... has been in "Beta" mode since at least March if not before... sounds terribly familiar. | 00:06 |
| wazd | milhouse: gmail is in beta since 1864 :) | 00:06 |
| milhouse | True, but that's worth registering for! :) | 00:06 |
| milhouse | Serious question: What is the opinion of Internet Tablet Talk now that it has moved to Maemo? I have to admit I can't stand it | 00:07 |
| Luke-Jr | same | 00:07 |
| johnx | I can't stand the people on it constantly kvetching about it | 00:07 |
| wazd | any vBulletin wizards in here btw?) | 00:07 |
| qwerty12_N810 | milhouse: still the same as ever, imho, internettablettalk.com still works and there's the classic skins | 00:08 |
| milhouse | It's not the content but the look & feel - what was wrong with keeping a vBulletin layout? This mad doctrine to make everything look the same is ridiculous, didn't work so well for the Wiki, certainly doesn't work for the forum | 00:08 |
| johnx | though the signal/noise ratio has dropped below the level I feel like dealing with :/ | 00:08 |
| milhouse | qwerty: Ah, does it? I just get the horrible Maemo "theme" | 00:08 |
| wazd | I've made a small concept for t.m.o.lite, but I can't code | 00:08 |
| wazd | http://s53.radikal.ru/i141/0907/66/8bc722b64d7a.png | 00:08 |
| johnx | that looks pretty close to the one they have actually | 00:09 |
| qwerty12_N810 | milhouse: Sure, look at the bottom-left corner, there's a drop-down with "Classic Light" and "Classic Dark" - but I don't know if you're required to be logged in to change | 00:10 |
| milhouse | qwerty: That URL redirects to talk.maemo.org when clicking on the Forum link :( | 00:10 |
| wazd | well, it shows unread topics and you can go to the last post right from the main page | 00:10 |
| milhouse | qwerty: Aha! You Sir are a lifesaver! :) | 00:10 |
| wazd | johnx: current minimalistic theme does nothing | 00:10 |
| milhouse | Jeez, they should make one of those the default and ditch the talk.maemo.org theme | 00:11 |
| milhouse | GAN: Maybe a nice simple one for the Brainstorm? :) | 00:11 |
| milhouse | "Make Classic Dark the default Talk theme" | 00:11 |
| GAN800 | :( | 00:15 |
| GAN800 | I like the t.m.o theme. and the wiki theme. | 00:16 |
| GAN800 | milhouse, if you bring up the theme nonsense again I'll eviscerate you. :) | 00:16 |
| milhouse | sob :( | 00:16 |
| GAN800 | Just, fyi. | 00:16 |
| milhouse | OK ;) | 00:16 |
| GAN800 | There's been more than enough idiocy surround THAT topic. | 00:16 |
| milhouse | At least there is a way around it, so I'm happy - hadn't noticed it down the bottom of the page though | 00:17 |
| GAN800 | The SNR on the whole community is pretty bad these days. | 00:17 |
| milhouse | Hey, where would Maemo be if we didn't spend all our time moaning about the web site? | 00:17 |
| milhouse | I mean, that is THE most important thing at the end of the day | 00:17 |
| milhouse | :) | 00:17 |
| GAN800 | milhouse, the theme options have been there since 2005. ;) | 00:18 |
| milhouse | Yes, but I hadn't noticed them on the new Maemo version - I didn't even think to look, assuming it was one theme and that was it! | 00:18 |
| wazd | milhouse: I don't spend time moaning bout themes cause it's useless :) | 00:18 |
| GAN800 | It's a pretty theme if you give it a chance. | 00:19 |
| milhouse | Careful or you'll be eviscerated! | 00:19 |
| milhouse | GAN: I'll have to disagree with you, mainly because the black text in the white "bubbles" is too big and it just doesn't "feel" like a forum | 00:20 |
| milhouse | but as there's an option to change it, that's fine with me | 00:20 |
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| wazd | all this orange stuff annoys me so much, but I got used to it after some time | 00:21 |
| milhouse | Thank god I'm not a Catholic or I might be offended :) | 00:21 |
| milhouse | Too much Orange! | 00:21 |
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| Luke-Jr | milhouse: … | 00:22 |
| milhouse | All I see is a little square... | 00:22 |
| GAN800 | milhouse, by the way, the Summit's in October. Plan for it. :P | 00:23 |
| milhouse | OK - what date? I'm in Greece for a wedding 9th to 15th | 00:23 |
| milhouse | Never mind, the wedding is in September! | 00:24 |
| GAN800 | Weekend of the 11th | 00:25 |
| wazd | VDVsx: ping? | 00:26 |
| VDVsx | pong | 00:26 |
| wazd | oh :) | 00:26 |
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| Macer | lois and clark isn't that good | 00:37 |
| Macer | let me try out deadwood | 00:38 |
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| Macer | Luke-Jr: you still around? | 00:47 |
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| Luke-Jr | no | 00:51 |
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| Macer | Luke-Jr: that gdium hasn't been released yet? | 00:58 |
| Macer | i'm looking for a place to buy one | 00:59 |
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| ShadowJK | it's released | 01:07 |
| ShadowJK | but i havent seen anywhere online to get it | 01:07 |
| ShadowJK | gdium is kinda odd anyway | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | and the other one is kinda meh | 01:08 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: afaik, you can only get it via OLPH | 01:08 |
| Macer | well | 01:09 |
| Macer | This item has not yet been released. | 01:09 |
| Macer | amazon says it hasn't been released yet.. BUT.. i don't think i want it because of that gkey shit | 01:09 |
| Macer | it boots off usb and uses it as its os | 01:09 |
| Macer | if they used esata instead it would be worth it | 01:09 |
| Macer | but not a usb2 drive for booting/os | 01:09 |
| ShadowJK | they have a gallery page with pcitures of it being sold in belgium or something... | 01:09 |
| Luke-Jr | hrm | 01:09 |
| Luke-Jr | Macer: build one with eSATA plz | 01:09 |
| ShadowJK | esata vs usb2 isn't going to be much of a difference for OS use on a slow ssd :) | 01:10 |
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| Luke-Jr | ShadowJK: USB eats CPU time | 01:12 |
| Luke-Jr | eSATA, dunno, hope not | 01:12 |
| Luke-Jr | but SATA is kinda suspicious to me because of that | 01:13 |
| Luke-Jr | PATA had DMA.. what does SATA have equivalent? | 01:13 |
| Luke-Jr | or does it just presume CPU time to waste? | 01:13 |
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| ShadowJK | the only reason "dma" was mentioned in context of pata is because there was a time long ago when computers had real isa busses and ata had no dma | 01:14 |
| ShadowJK | sata has pio and dma and the driver uses a mix dependig on what it's doing | 01:15 |
| ShadowJK | and controller capabilities vary | 01:15 |
| ShadowJK | anyway, for application responsiveness the ssd/gkey is going to be the bottleneck, not its transfer bus even if it sat on usb1.1 :) | 01:17 |
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| Luke-Jr | ShadowJK: applications run in memory, not disk | 01:18 |
| ShadowJK | yes but the OS does ondemand pagein p | 01:20 |
| ShadowJK | if you've got huge amounts of ram you could just read in your apps sequentially | 01:21 |
| ShadowJK | and all would be good | 01:21 |
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| ShadowJK | but in practice load times are a bunch of random I/O | 01:21 |
| ShadowJK | interleaved with a few small random writes | 01:22 |
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| tomaterr | has any1 dealt with nokia rma stuff before? | 01:23 |
| ShadowJK | there are about 2 SSD models in existence that isn't slower at that than harddrives, and the situation is worse for memory cards and usb flash drives :) | 01:23 |
| Macer | Luke-Jr: heh | 01:24 |
| Macer | i wish i could | 01:24 |
| Macer | i was interested in that thing until i saw that crap :) | 01:24 |
| Macer | maybe i can find an arm netbook | 01:24 |
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| ShadowJK | touchbook is probably only one with >128m ram | 01:25 |
| Macer | touchbook? | 01:25 |
| Macer | heh | 01:25 |
| ShadowJK | a search on tmo will find it | 01:26 |
| Macer | Cortex-A9 is the multicore sister to Cortex-A8, and is likely to go into use around 2010. | 01:26 |
| ShadowJK | and google, too :) | 01:26 |
| Macer | yeah. i'm looking for an arm based netbook now | 01:26 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not as optimistic as 2010 :) | 01:27 |
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| Macer | heh | 01:28 |
| Macer | that is an awkward looking netbook | 01:28 |
| Macer | the touchbook that is | 01:28 |
| ShadowJK | eh? it looks like a laptop with detacheable screen? | 01:28 |
| Macer | yeah | 01:28 |
| Macer | that's what i meant ;) | 01:29 |
| Macer | does the screen detatch? | 01:29 |
| ShadowJK | so if you dont remove the screen... it looks like a netbook? | 01:29 |
| Macer | i guess | 01:29 |
| Macer | heh | 01:29 |
| ShadowJK | and if you detach the screen you have a largeish tablet ;) | 01:30 |
| Macer | actually | 01:30 |
| Macer | it looks from their site that it flips behind the screen | 01:30 |
| Macer | and you use it like a tablet when not using the keyboard | 01:30 |
| ShadowJK | atleast at some point they said it was detacheable | 01:31 |
| wazd | nini maemo :) | 01:31 |
| Macer | looks pretty awesome | 01:31 |
| ShadowJK | ..and you can still order it without keyboard part I think | 01:31 |
| Macer | yeah it looks like it is.. i'm reading the info now | 01:31 |
| Macer | http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/ | 01:31 |
| ShadowJK | but theyre not shipping yet anyway.. | 01:31 |
| Macer | damnit :) | 01:32 |
| Macer | iat uses fennec? | 01:32 |
| Macer | fail | 01:32 |
| Macer | heh | 01:32 |
| Macer | omap3 | 01:32 |
| Macer | it's a damn larger n810 | 01:32 |
| ShadowJK | i think theyd be first netbook with cortex A8...so from that I extrapolate A9 netbooks appearing >1 year from A9 beagleboards which we havent seen yet :) | 01:33 |
| Macer | with a detatchable keyboard and larger screen haha | 01:33 |
| ShadowJK | twice the ram and 2x the cpu speed or something too | 01:33 |
| Macer | heh | 01:33 |
| ShadowJK | 2-3x | 01:34 |
| Macer | what os is this supposed to run? | 01:34 |
| Macer | MER?? | 01:34 |
| Macer | hehehe | 01:34 |
| ShadowJK | mer probablh already runs on it | 01:34 |
| Macer | Q. Which OS is installed on the Touch Book? | 01:34 |
| Macer | A. The Touch Book will ship with the Touch Book OS by default. Since the Touch Book has been designed with the help of a vibrant open source community that believes in diversity, you can install many other OSes, including Google Android, Ubuntu, Angstrom, and Windows CE. You are free to do whatever you want. | 01:34 |
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| Macer | i'm a little iffy about anything that says it will be using fennec :) | 01:35 |
| Macer | my experience with fennec on the n800 was a horrible one | 01:35 |
| amr | what apps do the cool kids recommend? | 01:35 |
| amr | im loving ines atm | 01:35 |
| ShadowJK | Macer you know touchbook is probably like N900 without the cellphone pieces and the tiny screen... | 01:36 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: the internal usb sounds interesting | 01:36 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: that's fine as long as the wifi can do adhoc | 01:36 |
| Macer | it would be nice to have openoffice for it also | 01:36 |
| Macer | :) | 01:36 |
| ShadowJK | hm, I wonder of n8x0 can adhoc | 01:37 |
| Macer | but fennec scares me.. maybe i can install opensolaris on it when an arm port is a little more mature | 01:37 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: it can | 01:37 |
| Macer | i've done it ;) | 01:37 |
| Macer | i used to adhoc tether my n800 to my g1 | 01:37 |
| Macer | worked like a champ | 01:37 |
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| Macer | hm. touchbooks are supposed to be shipping arleady | 01:38 |
| Macer | already.. they say "this summer" | 01:38 |
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| Macer | then again i suppose it is the middle of the summber.. it looks like an awesome machine though | 01:38 |
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| ShadowJK | they have a page with current status somewhere | 01:38 |
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| ShadowJK | originally it said early summer.. | 01:38 |
| Macer | $399 | 01:38 |
| Macer | that isn't bad at all | 01:39 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 01:39 |
| Macer | if you get it with the keyboard it is 399.. 299 without | 01:39 |
| Macer | ok. i'm sold :) | 01:39 |
| Macer | although i would like to run debian on it | 01:39 |
| ShadowJK | i'd be seriouslyh tempted if it wasnt in pandora-stage of the cycle :) | 01:39 |
| Macer | pandora-stage? | 01:39 |
| ShadowJK | vapourware, i wont believe it exists yet ;P | 01:40 |
| Macer | # Two internal batteries 6000 and 12000 mAh — it can be replaced with a screw driver | 01:40 |
| Macer | haha | 01:41 |
| Macer | that's different. i like the internal usb too | 01:41 |
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| ShadowJK | "We intend to start shipping the Touch Book next month, in July 2009. Our first batch of Touch Books is already in production." | 01:42 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: yeah i agree with you | 01:42 |
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| Macer | but once i see some being sold i will buy one :) | 01:43 |
| Macer | it looks like an amazing device after reading all the stuff over | 01:43 |
| Macer | i though my popcornhour was a scam | 01:43 |
| Macer | but then i got it and was very happy with it | 01:43 |
| Macer | # OpenOffice 3.1 | 01:43 |
| Macer | # A full Adobe Flash solution | 01:43 |
| Macer | heh. it is like they read my mind :) | 01:44 |
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| ShadowJK | "solution" | 01:44 |
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| ShadowJK | that probably means gnash :) | 01:45 |
| * ShadowJK sleeps | 01:45 | |
| Macer | haha | 01:46 |
| Macer | good night | 01:46 |
| Macer | but thanks for the info | 01:46 |
| Macer | once it comes out and actually gets sold i am going to scoop one up | 01:47 |
| Macer | it looks pretty awesome.. at the very least better than an n800 | 01:47 |
| Macer | if it can print then i'm sold for sure | 01:47 |
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| Macer | ShadowJK: those pics in the gallery look fake | 02:06 |
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| mavhc | nokia android phone? weird | 02:34 |
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| johnx | hmm? | 02:35 |
| mavhc | http://bit.ly/tola6 | 02:36 |
| johnx | "is understood to be" | 02:37 |
| johnx | citing no sources? I bet they just got confused and thought linux = linux and maemo = android | 02:38 |
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| mavhc | this is a newspaper, not wikipedia, doesn't have to be reliable | 02:38 |
| johnx | fine, then I donn't trust it :) | 02:39 |
| mavhc | they only have journalists, not experts | 02:39 |
| johnx | usually newspapers at least cite "someone close to nokia" or "a source familiar with nokia" | 02:39 |
| mavhc | apparently anyone can't edit it and fix mistakes | 02:39 |
| mavhc | maybe it's a NOKLA phone | 02:40 |
| johnx | heh with the andro1d OS! | 02:40 |
| mavhc | half gnews reports say it's a netbook, half a phone | 02:41 |
| mavhc | so apparently android is only free as in speech, not free as in culture | 02:43 |
| johnx | and it will run mac os 7 and have a forehead mounted haptic feedback device | 02:43 |
| mavhc | oddly no | 02:44 |
| johnx | it's hilarious how "analysts" and "journalists" don't get called out more often for making random shit up, doing no fact checking and saying things like "it's understood that ..." | 02:46 |
| mavhc | I only trust wikipedia | 02:48 |
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| stelleg | hey guys, I'm working on getting 2.6.29 working on n770 | 03:09 |
| stelleg | I finally got video working | 03:09 |
| stelleg | but bme is dying | 03:10 |
| man_in_shack | awesome | 03:10 |
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| stelleg | I'm getting the following on serial output: | 03:10 |
| stelleg | Starting DSME... done. | 03:10 |
| stelleg | Wait for DSME socket to appear | 03:10 |
| stelleg | dsme: reading bootreason from /proc/bootreason | 03:10 |
| stelleg | dsme: bootreason was other than mbus, let's wait for the battery type | 03:10 |
| stelleg | received state:9 | 03:10 |
| stelleg | cal_read_block(bme): size zero, block not found? | 03:10 |
| stelleg | DSME: process '/usr/bin/bme' with pid 444 exited with return value: 1 | 03:10 |
| stelleg | DSME: '/usr/bin/bme' exited | 03:10 |
| stelleg | with RESET policy -> reset | 03:10 |
| stelleg | The received message wasn't state change indication | 03:10 |
| stelleg | The received message wasn't state change indication | 03:10 |
| stelleg | received state:6 | 03:10 |
| stelleg | The system is going down NOW !! | 03:10 |
| stelleg | Sending SIGTERM to all processes. | 03:10 |
| stelleg | Terminated | 03:10 |
| stelleg | Sending SIGKILL to all processes. | 03:10 |
| stelleg | Killed | 03:10 |
| man_in_shack | stelleg, you really didn't need to paste all that | 03:11 |
| stelleg | sorry | 03:11 |
| stelleg | any ideas though? | 03:11 |
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| stelleg | i read that the cal_read_block failing can be caused by corrupted cal, which can be fixed by reflashing initfs | 03:11 |
| man_in_shack | wouldn't you need a new initfs to go with your new kernel? | 03:14 |
| stelleg | ah I'll look into that | 03:17 |
| stelleg | thanks | 03:17 |
| man_in_shack | np | 03:17 |
| stelleg | still a bit new to this kernel hacking business | 03:17 |
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| xnt14 | ~seen b-man16 | 04:26 |
| infobot | b-man16 <n=b-man16@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 11h 16m 33s ago, saying: ':P'. | 04:26 |
| xnt14 | argh! :P | 04:26 |
| xnt14 | ah well | 04:26 |
| * xnt14 is bored | 04:27 | |
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| Macer | damn i really want a touchbook | 04:50 |
| Macer | that thing looks awesome | 04:50 |
| Macer | wish it was a little quicker though but i suppose 600MHz isn't too bad | 04:51 |
| Macer | fast enough to run openoffice | 04:51 |
| Macer | different arch too so maybe the arch would go a little faster | 04:51 |
| ShadowJK | about twice as fast | 04:53 |
| ShadowJK | per MHz | 04:53 |
| ShadowJK | best case | 04:53 |
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| rizet | Does anyone know of any SSH Tunnel Manager for Maemo? | 06:38 |
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| freenose | is there aircrack for maemo? | 08:25 |
| johnx | yes and no | 08:25 |
| johnx | the wifi driver doesn't support packet injection | 08:26 |
| freenose | sad | 08:28 |
| johnx | eh | 08:28 |
| johnx | there's source for a newer version of the driver if someone cared enough to make it work | 08:29 |
| freenose | source from nokia? | 08:29 |
| johnx | yes actually | 08:29 |
| johnx | the newer driver isn't fully working, and I don't think it has an injection support | 08:30 |
| freenose | the actual one is propietary? | 08:30 |
| johnx | but if the hardware is capable, then the source is there | 08:30 |
| johnx | but that's a lot of "if" :) | 08:30 |
| johnx | the one used on the tablet is partially proprietary | 08:30 |
| freenose | wonders why nokia puts propietary stuff on linux tablet | 08:33 |
| johnx | cost | 08:33 |
| johnx | they've been going a long way to making up for it | 08:34 |
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| Guest4237_245 | Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 Fatal server error: Could not create server lock file: /tmp/.X2-lock | 08:34 |
| Guest4237_245 | any clue? how to resolve? | 08:34 |
| freenose | aren't there opensource wifi chipses? | 08:35 |
| johnx | freenose, yes | 08:35 |
| johnx | Guest4237_245, does /tmp/.X2-lock exist? who is it owned by? | 08:35 |
| freenose | why they don't use it? license? | 08:35 |
| johnx | cost | 08:36 |
| Guest4237_245 | i dont know if he exist 1 minute | 08:36 |
| AStorm | cost and energy efficiency | 08:36 |
| johnx | right, that too | 08:37 |
| AStorm | the prism54 on SPI with conexant firmware is a very nice design | 08:37 |
| Guest4237_245 | no johnx, no .X2-lock in /temp | 08:37 |
| RST38h | Temperature: 8oC, RealFeel: 5oC | 08:37 |
| Guest4237_245 | :( | 08:37 |
| AStorm | (or maybe it's not prism54, just something similar) | 08:37 |
| RST38h | Well, at least it is positive... | 08:37 |
| johnx | Guest4237_245, really? keep in mind it's a hidden file so it won't show up with a normal ls or in a GUI file manger. test if /tmp is writable by typing "touch /tmp/foo" | 08:39 |
| RST38h | Moo, johnx, AStorm | 08:39 |
| johnx | m00f RST38h | 08:39 |
| johnx | RST38h, soooo, is that "realfeel" temperature from windchill or icestorms or what? | 08:40 |
| RST38h | johnx: It is from AccuWeather, probably windchill | 08:40 |
| johnx | heh. that's a pretty good breeze then | 08:40 |
| RST38h | It also looks like the start of a nuclear winter | 08:41 |
| johnx | ah, fun stuff | 08:41 |
| johnx | does that mean a decrease in the pollen count? | 08:41 |
| RST38h | Oh yess | 08:41 |
| johnx | woo! bring on the bombs! | 08:41 |
| Guest4237_245 | what output its suppose give it | 08:42 |
| RST38h | At least judging from the fact that I feel almost ok | 08:42 |
| Guest4237_245 | i have nothing | 08:42 |
| Guest4237_245 | its look yes | 08:42 |
| johnx | it's supposed to create a file called foo in /tmp | 08:42 |
| johnx | so, now try touch /tmp/.X2-lock | 08:42 |
| johnx | also, if you tried running Xephyr as a different user and it didn't properly exit (ie, it crashed) it might have left a stale lock file | 08:43 |
| johnx | ls -l /tmp/.X2-lock | 08:43 |
| johnx | to check :) | 08:43 |
| Guest4237_245 | permission denied | 08:44 |
| johnx | for which command? | 08:44 |
| Guest4237_245 | touch /tmp/.X2-lock | 08:44 |
| johnx | alright, it does exist then. ls -l /tmp/.X2-lock | 08:44 |
| RST38h | Ok, off to work. | 08:45 |
| Guest4237_245 | -r--r--r-- 1 root root 11 2009-07-06 01:27 /tmp/.X2-lock | 08:45 |
| johnx | have fun RST38h :) | 08:45 |
| johnx | Guest4237_245, so delete it as root | 08:45 |
| Guest4237_245 | i need reload term for launch again Xephir after that? | 08:45 |
| Guest4237_245 | ... | 08:46 |
| johnx | nah, just type sudo rm /tmp/.X2-lock | 08:46 |
| johnx | then run Xephy | 08:46 |
| johnx | r | 08:46 |
| Guest4237_245 | lol ok | 08:47 |
| Guest4237_245 | fatal error 1 fix | 08:47 |
| Guest4237_245 | TX a lot | 08:47 |
| Guest4237_245 | but here 2 | 08:47 |
| Guest4237_245 | lol | 08:47 |
| Guest4237_245 | Fatal server error: Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running | 08:47 |
| johnx | are you running Xephyr as root right now? | 08:48 |
| slonopotamus | woo | 08:48 |
| johnx | did you run it twice? | 08:48 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, hello | 08:48 |
| johnx | morning slonopotamus | 08:48 |
| Guest4237_245 | no i try in new terminal | 08:48 |
| Guest4237_245 | not root | 08:48 |
| Guest4237_245 | here | 08:49 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, how on earth you compiled qemu statically? it dies during linking | 08:49 |
| johnx | ps auxc | grep Xephyr | 08:49 |
| Guest4237_245 | labaudio@ubuntu:~$ Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -extension Composite _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: server already running Fatal server error: Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running | 08:49 |
| johnx | Guest4237_245, for more than 4 lines of pasting, try and use pastebin | 08:49 |
| johnx | ~pastebin | 08:49 |
| infobot | [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste | 08:49 |
| slonopotamus | that was 1 line :P | 08:49 |
| johnx | infobot, you should have used pastebin for that one | 08:50 |
| slonopotamus | haha) | 08:50 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, I had nothing but pain trying to do that. try getting it from someone else :) | 08:50 |
| Guest4237_245 | ~pastebin Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -extension Composite _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: server already running Fatal server error: Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running | 08:50 |
| Guest4237_245 | oups | 08:50 |
| Guest4237_245 | ok | 08:50 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, but your page says you did it somehow :) | 08:51 |
| johnx | Guest4237_245, anyways, I would run ps auxc | grep Xephyr and see if it has any running Xephyr | 08:51 |
| johnx | or try :3 instead of :2 on the command line | 08:51 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, uhm...which page? O_o; | 08:51 |
| Guest4237_245 | http://pastebin.ca/1485367 | 08:51 |
| Guest4237_245 | ok | 08:51 |
| Guest4237_245 | ps auxc | grep Xephyr give me nothing | 08:52 |
| johnx | well, then try switching :2 for :3 I guess | 08:52 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, http://goron.de/~johns/n810/ copy ebuild, edit, update manifest and build qemu. | 08:53 |
| johnx | johns != johnx | 08:53 |
| johnx | :) | 08:53 |
| slonopotamus | ... | 08:53 |
| johnx | johnb = johnx | 08:53 |
| johnx | also, johnx = johnxx (sometimes) | 08:54 |
| * slonopotamus haven't awoken completely | 08:54 | |
| johnx | let me check how obs does it | 08:54 |
| Guest4237_245 | : 3 give me http://pastebin.com/m13a79d74 | 08:54 |
| johnx | wow. well that's different | 08:55 |
| johnx | which linux distribution is this? | 08:55 |
| slonopotamus | i need johnsq, not johnx | 08:55 |
| Guest4237_245 | ubu last one | 08:55 |
| slonopotamus | couldn't you choose a bit more diferent nicknames? :) | 08:55 |
| johnx | heh, says you. know how many slonopotamuses I see on a daily basis? there's like 3 guys named that in my office! :P | 08:56 |
| Guest4237_245 | nick labaudio | 08:56 |
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| labaudio | maybe just uninstall and re install xephir | 08:57 |
| johnx | I bet that won't make a difference | 08:57 |
| johnx | see if it runs without the -composite | 08:57 |
| labaudio | no | 08:58 |
| johnx | so remove "-extension Composite" | 08:58 |
| labaudio | i try before | 08:58 |
| labaudio | that so sick | 08:58 |
| labaudio | every morning that run | 08:58 |
| labaudio | but since i install last sdk | 08:58 |
| labaudio | nothing | 08:58 |
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| johnx | I assume you mean the beta sdk | 08:58 |
| johnx | so...keep in mind, it's a beta sdk | 08:59 |
| labaudio | no | 08:59 |
| labaudio | diablo | 08:59 |
| johnx | anyways, Xephyr isn't part of the sdk | 08:59 |
| johnx | and it runs here with exactly the same command line | 08:59 |
| johnx | I would say make sure you install all the latest updates and reboot if they ask you too | 08:59 |
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| labaudio | i try something from other and comeback in few | 09:00 |
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| Macer | am watching frost nixon | 09:03 |
| Macer | pretty good | 09:04 |
| johnx | am playing with my wii :) | 09:04 |
| doc|home | it is good | 09:04 |
| Macer | doc|home: never saw it | 09:04 |
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| labaudio_852 | no | 09:04 |
| Macer | almost makes you feel bad for nixon | 09:05 |
| johnx | labaudio_852, no what? | 09:05 |
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| Macer | johnx: mushroom men is ok | 09:05 |
| Macer | you should try that out | 09:06 |
| johnx | right now I'm playing linux :D | 09:06 |
| Macer | lol | 09:06 |
| Macer | you got a usb nic | 09:06 |
| Macer | ? | 09:06 |
| johnx | yup yup | 09:06 |
| johnx | a cheapie too. cost me 300JPY used a while ago | 09:07 |
| johnx | just needed a kernel module compiled for it | 09:07 |
| Macer | ah | 09:07 |
| Macer | how is it? | 09:07 |
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| johnx | seems to work pretty well, I'm trying to get X up in the latest ubuntu with the wiimote working | 09:08 |
| johnx | but first there's a new kernel with support for 11MB more RAM! woo! | 09:08 |
| Macer | woah! | 09:08 |
| Macer | heh | 09:08 |
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| labaudio | so is look when i remove a x16 from 800x480x16 all work but | 09:15 |
| labaudio | Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic, removing from list! unrecognised device identifier! (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed | 09:16 |
| johnx | that's normal | 09:16 |
| labaudio | i try some more like 1024x780 and all work too | 09:17 |
| labaudio | but now iam still here | 09:20 |
| johnx | yes, you are | 09:21 |
| labaudio | here my last log | 09:24 |
| labaudio | http://pastebin.ca/1485390 | 09:24 |
| johnx | get rid of the \ and the return | 09:27 |
| johnx | didn't you say it was working before? | 09:27 |
| labaudio | es | 09:27 |
| labaudio | *Y | 09:27 |
| labaudio | all work good before | 09:28 |
| johnx | just 15 minutes ago you said that it ran | 09:28 |
| labaudio | the xserver windows appears | 09:29 |
| labaudio | but still error | 09:29 |
| johnx | that "error" is normal | 09:29 |
| johnx | I get it here too | 09:29 |
| johnx | just ignore it | 09:29 |
| labaudio | ok so in fact all works | 09:29 |
| johnx | yes | 09:30 |
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| labaudio | but what is exactly -extension finaly | 09:30 |
| labaudio | cause whith -extension its dont work | 09:30 |
| labaudio | but its suppose to be | 09:30 |
| johnx | which guide did you read that says to use "-extension Composite"? | 09:31 |
| labaudio | http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node4.html#SECTION00444000000000000000 | 09:33 |
| johnx | well, that answers your question about what "-extension Composite" does :) | 09:34 |
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| labaudio | its disable composite | 09:35 |
| labaudio | wow that mean a lot lol | 09:35 |
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| labaudio | but in fact whit -extension xwindows dont open | 09:36 |
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| labaudio | whitout not too | 09:36 |
| johnx | out of curiosity, what is your native language? | 09:36 |
| labaudio | whitout -ac and -extension its work | 09:36 |
| Luke-Jr | my native language is C | 09:36 |
| Luke-Jr | kthx | 09:36 |
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| labaudio | for me its french | 09:37 |
| Dracie | Marshian | 09:37 |
| johnx | the Composite extension provides support for partial transparency and stuff like that | 09:38 |
| labaudio | ok | 09:41 |
| labaudio | every go | 09:43 |
| labaudio | i shaft all this by bypassing just -ac | 09:43 |
| labaudio | curiosly all work properly | 09:43 |
| labaudio | finaly | 09:43 |
| johnx | just a note: "shaft" might not mean what you think it means :) | 09:44 |
| labaudio | Tx for tweaking tip johnx | 09:44 |
| labaudio | i know | 09:44 |
| johnx | sure, good luck :) | 09:44 |
| labaudio | but iam french so i use play words | 09:44 |
| labaudio | ahahah | 09:44 |
| johnx | right then | 09:44 |
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| ptman | have you seen this yet: http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2009/jul/06/nokia-mobile-internet-phones | 10:03 |
| johnx | I have this funny feeling that someone got their signals crossed | 10:04 |
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| RST38h | probably bullshit | 10:06 |
| RST38h | but who knows... | 10:07 |
| johnx | yeah, unless android will be running qt by that point | 10:07 |
| RST38h | no, no, there is a different scenario | 10:07 |
| johnx | nokia are bloody idiots? | 10:07 |
| RST38h | they may want to replace s40 with android | 10:08 |
| johnx | seems kind of heavyweight for that application doesn't it? | 10:08 |
| johnx | but what I'm thinking is a game of "telephone" where someone says "new linux phone by xx" "oh, you mean linux, like android?" "yeah" | 10:09 |
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| adeus | they don't want to replace s40:s with anything | 10:09 |
| adeus | they're cheap to make and sell like crazy | 10:10 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | People would be pissed if they found out that their android phone can only install J2ME games :p | 10:11 |
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| johnx | I thought that was all android could run anyways? :> | 10:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | hehe | 10:13 |
| johnx | I guess you can code part of your j2me game in C now, so it's like the palm "solution" to optimizing code for ARM vs m68k | 10:14 |
| ptman | there was just a native sdk release for android | 10:15 |
| RST38h | johnx: Android isn't very heavyweight, it may be a good replacement for S40 | 10:16 |
| ptman | so no need to code for dalvik (which is closer to j2se than j2me) | 10:16 |
| johnx | RST38h, it's heavy enough to need 400MHz and 128MB of RAM unless I'm missing something | 10:16 |
| RST38h | ptman: Their native loophole is pretty limited | 10:16 |
| johnx | ptman, AFAIK, you can't call out to system APIs from C | 10:16 |
| RST38h | And they only implemented it under pressure from developers | 10:16 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Oh | 10:17 |
| ptman | hmm... might be, I haven't looked closely | 10:17 |
| johnx | I skimmed the article | 10:17 |
| RST38h | Initially, Google even deleted messages asking for native model from its forums | 10:17 |
| johnx | ptman, they want to keep people in davlik, but let them write in C for performance critical areas | 10:18 |
| johnx | RST38h, I can almost understand that though. they didn't need 100 duplicate threads asking that when they were no where near the point where they could do it | 10:18 |
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| RST38h | johnx: They could do it from the very beginning | 10:20 |
| RST38h | johnx: Only took a few weeks for somebody to break through and compile hello world app | 10:20 |
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| RST38h | johnx: So it looks more like they THOUGHT they could avoid it | 10:20 |
| johnx | heh | 10:20 |
| RST38h | A typical fallacy for the Java guys | 10:21 |
| johnx | nah, I assume it was more of a, "we can't get around do doing this the way we want right now" | 10:21 |
| johnx | "so we'll say you don't need it" | 10:21 |
| johnx | same as the iPhone 1.0 | 10:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: Believe me, it is really trivial | 10:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: Does not require much time to make | 10:21 |
| johnx | but they implemented it in a different way. | 10:21 |
| RST38h | Just like every other JVM | 10:22 |
| johnx | the way they do it now sandboxes C code | 10:22 |
| RST38h | johnx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Native_Interface | 10:22 |
| RST38h | Any Unix sandboxes C code, try writing outside of your address space or accessing files you are not supposed to access | 10:22 |
| johnx | but what if you try sitting and spinning with 100% CPU time? or if you try to soak up as much RAM as possible? | 10:23 |
| johnx | presumably they're trying to avoid apps going crazy like that | 10:23 |
| RST38h | johnx: You will not be able to allocate more ram than ulimit allows | 10:23 |
| RST38h | johnx: As to CPU time use, it depends on the scheduling policy. A decent Unix (like FreeBSD) will just move your app to lowerpriority | 10:24 |
| johnx | but what if priority #1 is the amorphous policy of "preserving battery life" | 10:24 |
| johnx | anyways I'm curious what they *did* do differently that took them so much time :) | 10:25 |
| RST38h | johnx: I am pretty sure you can still cheat Android and use 100% CPU resources. Good ways to try would be making a lot of system calls (see Maemo Flash) or making calls that incur heavy CPU use (X11 font rendering) | 10:25 |
| RST38h | johnx: What took them so much time is their dogma. | 10:25 |
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| johnx | wonder if that ubuntu guy had any more luck with davlik under x11 | 10:27 |
| aquatix | morning all | 10:28 |
| johnx | mornin' aquatix | 10:28 |
| johnx | mmmm...cleanly applying patches :) | 10:30 |
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| liri | any chance for thunderbird/sunbird on the n810 platform? | 10:59 |
| johnx | those are pretty heavy apps | 11:00 |
| liri | I've read it has sync plugins to do all the google apps sync (cal, contacts, etc) | 11:00 |
| qwerty12_N810 | liri: google "null-pointer thunderbird" | 11:00 |
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| liri | qwerty12_N810: I guess it's a dead-end road eh | 11:04 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Oh, I thought he had uploaded a binary. But speed-wise, I'd probably say yeah :) | 11:05 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Removed the Fastforward feature in favour of being able to actually send F4 to MGS. And the radio screen comes up now so I'm happy. Thanks :) | 11:29 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: That isn't a good way to fix this though | 12:00 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Indeed, but I didn't even know that the FastForward feature existed before seeing the code, so for me, it works well :) | 12:01 |
| RST38h | qwerty: I would rather bind F-keys to [F]+[CHR]+upper row | 12:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | That would be useful, I binded the FastForward to the Fn key but I can't go left or right :) | 12:03 |
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| wazd | Nokia claimed to be working on Android phone for unveiling later this year | 12:20 |
| wazd | црфе еру рудд шы ерфеб тщлшф,( | 12:20 |
| wazd | oh | 12:20 |
| wazd | what the hell is that, Nokia I mena?! | 12:20 |
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| wazd | mean* | 12:20 |
| adeus | false news? | 12:22 |
| wazd | I think so too | 12:22 |
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| sarower | Hello all, Is there any C++ (maemomm) support or wrapper for home screen applet development? | 12:24 |
| sarower | any body? | 12:24 |
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| RST38h | There is none. | 12:30 |
| RST38h | wazd: Probably fake | 12:31 |
| wazd | RST38h: yep, cause it's making absolutely no goddamn sense | 12:31 |
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| murrayc | sarower: I'm working on it, but not yet. | 12:33 |
| murrayc | sarower: And they are called "Desktop Widgets". | 12:33 |
| murrayc | sarower: libhildondesktopmm is in the maemomm garage, but it's crashy right now. | 12:33 |
| * Jaffa wonders if they heard "touchscreen" and "Linux" and thought "Android" | 12:34 | |
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| sarower | murrayc: oh... Thank you very much for your information | 12:34 |
| sarower | murrayc: do you know when it (libhildondesktopmm) would be available for use? | 12:35 |
| sarower | murrayc: do you have any reference of libhildondesktopmm? | 12:36 |
| RST38h | wazd: makes more sense than Nokia branded netbooks though | 12:38 |
| murrayc | sarower: Possibly within 3 or 4 weeks. It's blocking on something (uninteresting) that I can't mention. | 12:38 |
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| murrayc | sarower: In the meantime it should not be too hard to use the C API: http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2009/05/11/maemo-5-desktop-widget-example/ | 12:38 |
| murrayc | sarower: You can easily use C and C++ together with Glib::wrap() and gobj(). | 12:39 |
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| sarower | murrayc: That means i can use C++ with the C based framework? | 12:40 |
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| nomis | sarower: you should be able to use the C-API within C++. You might need to extern "C" {} the functions that the framework uses to access your code. | 12:42 |
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| murrayc | nomis: That's not necessary. GTK+/Hildon code already use that in their headers. | 12:42 |
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| murrayc | sarower: Yes: http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs/tutorial/html/ch04.html#sec-basics-gobj-and-wrap | 12:43 |
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| sarower | murrayc: Ok let me check these things | 12:44 |
| nomis | murrayc: uhm, IIRC you have to use specific names in your code for the applets, so that the desktop can dlsym the resp. symbol for the applet. That better is not C++-name-mangled... | 12:44 |
| nomis | or am I missing something? | 12:45 |
| nomis | oh, wait. This probably is in HD_DEFINE_PLUGIN. | 12:49 |
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| sarower | murrayc: Suppose i want to define classes of my own and want to use in the "Desktop Widgets" development framework which is C based! | 13:12 |
| sarower | is it possible? | 13:13 |
| sarower | Suppose i want to create object inside "example_init()" method and call it's methods! | 13:14 |
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| murrayc | sarower: Yes. | 13:18 |
| murrayc | sarower: It's easy to use C and C++ together. It's entirely normal. | 13:18 |
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| sarower | murrayc: How i can implement MVC model in this case? Do you have any sample? | 13:19 |
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| sarower | murrayc: But for the "Desktop Widgets" application i must use its own C based framework. eight? | 13:20 |
| sarower | right* | 13:20 |
| murrayc | sarower: Yes, for now. But you can use C++ while doing that. | 13:22 |
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| sarower | murrayc: did not understand " But you can use C++ while doing that." point! | 13:24 |
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| wazd | VDVsx: ping?) | 13:39 |
| VDVsx | wazd, pong | 13:39 |
| wazd | VDVsx: mornin' :) | 13:39 |
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| VDVsx | g'morning wazd ;) | 13:40 |
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| adeus | http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL613838520090706 | 14:32 |
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| RST38h | adeus: Hehehe | 14:39 |
| RST38h | Poor Nokia guys have to deny rubbish daily now =) | 14:39 |
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| ShadowJK | RST38h, you know a rumour is false if gartner confirms it | 14:40 |
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| tank-man | I hate news stories about rumors and speculations, they always say someone is making those accusations but not specifically who | 14:41 |
| tank-man | speculated by "industry insiders" | 14:42 |
| RST38h | Shadow: that too | 14:43 |
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| lcuk | so what have i missed then | 15:58 |
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| aquatix | *crickets* | 16:05 |
| lcuk | aquatix, thinking the same | 16:06 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: libliq missed out on being the favoured UI framework in Harmattan to Qt... | 16:07 |
| RST38h | lcuk: You missed on an Android-running Nokia phone | 16:08 |
| lcuk | damn! thats ok though, ill just carry on building it till its everywhere i want it | 16:08 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Which is forever. | 16:08 |
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| lcuk | i did get the sketching webservice running though just before i went | 16:08 |
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| lcuk | its one less thing for me to worry about | 16:08 |
| lcuk | RST38h, :) rome wasnt built in a day | 16:09 |
| VDVsx | don't worry, liqbase will replace Qt in Imantalle :P | 16:09 |
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| X-Fade | VDVsx: Inverna ;) | 16:09 |
| GAN8001 | The Android phone is probably true. | 16:10 |
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| VDVsx | X-Fade, I don't knew the name, just invented that one now :P | 16:10 |
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| RST38h | GAN: Nokia already denied it, publicly | 16:10 |
| X-Fade | inverna ( in′vərnä ) ( meteorology ) A southeast wind of Lake Maggiore, Italy. | 16:10 |
| GAN800 | Nokia has decided that dealing with their own distro is just too much damn work. | 16:10 |
| VDVsx | GAN800, http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL613838520090706 | 16:10 |
| GAN800 | and those pesky community people just wont STFU | 16:11 |
| GAN800 | RST38h, of course they did. | 16:11 |
| lcuk | RST38h, nokia can deny it publically all they like, all it takes is some hacker with a will to push it onto the next open device (just like they did with 810) | 16:11 |
| GAN800 | Not denying it would ruin the surprise. | 16:11 |
| lcuk | why a surprise, they have a plan for qt dont they | 16:11 |
| VDVsx | odd: "Very sad to see how the cool, upcoming, GTK/Hildon/Clutter-based Maemo Fremantle is being ignored in the talks given by Nokians so far" -> https://twitter.com/juanjosanchez/status/2485848981 | 16:13 |
| VDVsx | at GCDS of course | 16:13 |
| RST38h | GAN: I do not know of any cases when something Nokia openly denied ended up as true | 16:15 |
| finn | hi | 16:16 |
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| wazd | RST38h: don't ruin the Great Conspiracy Theory :) | 16:17 |
| RST38h | Anyways, Maemo release strategy looks like complete cluster fuck | 16:17 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, one thing on what you said - nothing stops me from using libliqbase inside a qt app | 16:17 |
| lcuk | best of both worlds :) | 16:17 |
| wazd | "Aha, they deny that oficcialy, i knew they are hiding something!" | 16:17 |
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| RST38h | First, they drop support for Diablo prematurely, leaving current users dry | 16:17 |
| RST38h | wazd: Nokia never confirmed or denied that nuclear test near Karelian boarder, did it? ;) | 16:18 |
| RST38h | s/boarder/border | 16:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: At least we know why now that there's Fremantle bugs that are WONTFIX | 16:18 |
| lcuk | RST38h, whats your role inside intel? | 16:18 |
| wazd | lcuk: He's the Master of the Universe :) | 16:19 |
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| RST38h | Then, they appear to rewrite the whole GTK+ API, killing compatibility with Diablo and main line GTK apps | 16:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: software engineer | 16:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: If you want Moblin guys, they are on the next floor =) | 16:19 |
| RST38h | And finally, they promise to rewrite the whole platform AGAIN for the Harmattan | 16:20 |
| lcuk | heh up or down from you | 16:20 |
| wazd | RST38h: yep, all those platform frustrations annys me to :( | 16:20 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Up, although the difference is mostly topological =) | 16:20 |
| wazd | RST38h: annoys | 16:20 |
| _BuBU | hi there | 16:20 |
| _BuBU | sorry to ask if that had already been asked... but is there any alpha or something for the Maemo QT port ? | 16:21 |
| RST38h | wazd: If they actually released something by now, it would be ok | 16:21 |
| RST38h | wazd: but right now it all sounds like AmigaOS =) | 16:21 |
| wazd | RST38h: I really don't see any sense to develop 3 versions of one OS same time | 16:22 |
| RST38h | BuBU: Maemo Qt is in extras-devel, it is beta quality. | 16:22 |
| lbt | _BuBU: http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/ | 16:23 |
| RST38h | wazd: with a proper process, they would be overlapped a little bit | 16:23 |
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| wazd | RST38h: first they had Elephanta, Fremantle and Harmattan | 16:23 |
| RST38h | wazd: With developers adding evolutionary features to Diablo while fixing bugs and making updates every month or two | 16:23 |
| VDVsx | ~maemo-qt | 16:23 |
| infobot | rumour has it, maemo-qt is http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt | 16:23 |
| RST38h | wazd: And a couple of developers working exclusively on QT | 16:24 |
| GAN800 | Maemo's having an identity crisis. | 16:24 |
| wazd | RST38h: then they dropped Elephanta and joined Fremantle | 16:24 |
| wazd | RST38h: and now they tell that Harmattan will be different from fremantle | 16:24 |
| RST38h | wazd: which isn't surprising | 16:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: Why not just make Fremantle with whole team?) | 16:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: I mean Harmattan | 16:25 |
| lcuk | they bought a whole team | 16:25 |
| RST38h | wazd: I guess this is what they will do once N900 is released. | 16:25 |
| RST38h | wazd: So, do not expect updates or bug fixes to Fremantle :) | 16:25 |
| VDVsx | just as side note, the current GTK+/hildon was done mostly by contractors, so they probably have already a good part of the team working on QT | 16:27 |
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| tbf | RST38h: nokia did bug fix releases for diablo when fremantle was in the queue already | 16:30 |
| tbf | RST38h: so why shouldn't they do bugfixes for Fremantle? | 16:31 |
| tbf | RST38h: they also have an image to loose | 16:31 |
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| RST38h | tbf: do they still? =) | 16:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | hey | 16:33 |
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| tbf | RST38h: don't think they are maintaining diablo anymore, but they deliverd at least two major updates | 16:33 |
| timeless_mbp | if i install openssh on diablo, does it not automatically start sshd? | 16:33 |
| aquatix | timeless_mbp: it should | 16:33 |
| tbf | RST38h: and the last one was done when fremantle was at full steam already | 16:33 |
| timeless_mbp | aquatix: it doesn't seem like it did | 16:33 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: sshd is started after install and upon every boot | 16:33 |
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| aquatix | timeless_mbp: you installed the sshd i presume? | 16:34 |
| tbf | RST38h: there for i'd also expect few update releases for fremantle | 16:34 |
| RST38h | tbf: Yes, but how long ago has it been? | 16:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | i installed "openssh" | 16:34 |
| aquatix | that should install -client and -server i think | 16:34 |
| timeless_mbp | and have "openssh-client", "openssh-common", "openssh-server" as well as the thing i installed ("openssh") | 16:34 |
| aquatix | so sshd | 16:34 |
| aquatix | then it should have started | 16:34 |
| RST38h | tbf: Now, if Fremantle were out, it would be ok to claim that they are supporting Fremantle rather than older Diablo | 16:35 |
| aquatix | try ssh'ing localhost? :) | 16:35 |
| timeless_mbp | doesn't work | 16:35 |
| timeless_mbp | and ps doesn't list it | 16:35 |
| RST38h | tbf: But, as things are, they are not supporting users at all. | 16:35 |
| aquatix | hm | 16:35 |
| RST38h | tbf: Really, REALLY bad idea. | 16:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: tried "/etc/init.d/ssh start"? | 16:36 |
| timeless_mbp | as what? | 16:36 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm kinda not root | 16:36 |
| RST38h | tbf: Which could be rectified by periodic updates to Diablo backend packages (like the same camel for example) | 16:36 |
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| tbf | RST38h: afaik last update for diablo was in december 2008 | 16:36 |
| timeless_mbp | hence trying to install ssh | 16:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | There's other ways to get root, *shrug* | 16:36 |
| RST38h | tbf: This is 6-7 months ago. | 16:36 |
| timeless_mbp | give me one that'll work :) | 16:36 |
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| RST38h | tbf: Also, look how many bugs to backend packages are marked as "fixed in fremantle" - all these should really be fixed in diablo if you care about your customers. | 16:37 |
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| RST38h | tbf: Frontend stuff like GTK+ is ok to ignore, but not the backend (kernel, daemons, drivers, etc) | 16:38 |
| tbf | RST38h: combine that last diablo release date with Fremantle SDK release dates and the rumor google gives you, and make your conclusions about the original schedule ;-) | 16:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: well? :( | 16:39 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: I've used rootsh and sudser fine. | 16:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok, rootsh worked, thanks | 16:41 |
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| finn | can the "unable to connect. no file system available" be solved without formating the SD card (and losing all the pictures on it) | 16:45 |
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| till- | finn maybe you can use an memory card recovery tool | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | finally home \o/ | 17:16 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: wb :) | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | ta! | 17:25 |
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| finn | till-: the n810 is my only device which has a card reader (USB), since my USB port is broken on the laptop | 17:32 |
| RST38h | tbf: I know with 99% confidence that the Fremantle schedule slipped at least once and most likely twice | 17:32 |
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| Macer | hm | 18:36 |
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| Macer | still very interested in this touchbook | 18:36 |
| Macer | wonder what type of OS it will be running | 18:36 |
| Macer | xfce w/compiz it seems | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | any linux | 18:37 |
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| Macer | Stskeeps: but they say rhey have | 18:43 |
| Macer | an "innovative 3d operating system" | 18:44 |
| Macer | :) | 18:44 |
| Macer | opensolaris is working on something that runs on arm | 18:44 |
| Macer | bbl | 18:44 |
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| supermaz | aquatix: my little tool for flashing the LED when new calls are on the answering machine is working ;) | 19:02 |
| supermaz | I now need to add the "make yourself a daemon" code, the next thing would be to implement a desktop applet to show the number on the desktop! | 19:02 |
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| jophish | . | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | .. | 19:24 |
| baraujo | ...? | 19:25 |
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| GAN800 | ??? ???? ??? ? ???? | 19:31 |
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| pupnik | i want to see who is at the door on my n810 | 19:32 |
| inz | do you use your tablet as a welcome-rug? | 19:33 |
| VDVsx | buy a wlan camera :) | 19:33 |
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| inz | or buy another n810 and set up some kind of autoanswer-mechanism | 19:34 |
| Mek | apparently there aren't really any n810 available for sale anymore... | 19:35 |
| inz | n800 would be easier, if the camera is popped out, video is started automagically | 19:35 |
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| VDVsx | Mek, amazon still have in stock: http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N810-Portable-Internet-Tablet/dp/B000Y4AH3C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1246898156&sr=8-1 | 19:36 |
| VDVsx | S/have/has | 19:36 |
| Mek | hmm, okay; I just heard some nokian complaining that he couldn't even get a new one internally anymore after his old one broke | 19:36 |
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| VDVsx | Mek, well, the nokians should be able to get a shiny n9xx ,instead of a old school device, like the n810 :P | 19:42 |
| Mek | :) | 19:42 |
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| Corsac | I did bought mine from expansys | 19:44 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: prod | 20:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: meep | 20:02 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: happen to know if toggles has a uploaded src package of his statusbar-applet-settings thing? | 20:03 |
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| Stskeeps | besides his git | 20:03 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: no idea, I've told him how to generate it so I guess he's just waiting for a nod | 20:04 |
| Stskeeps | k | 20:04 |
| * Stskeeps gets out his git | 20:04 | |
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| supermaz | qwerty12_N810: My LED is now blinking when I got a call on the AM ;) | 20:05 |
| supermaz | works great | 20:05 |
| supermaz | I love this device! | 20:05 |
| qwerty12_N810 | :) | 20:06 |
| supermaz | a flashing LED for 200 bucks! | 20:06 |
| supermaz | Now comes the desktop applet to develop. I think this will be a bit harder ;) | 20:07 |
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| lcuk_holiday | supermaz, nahh just do what qwerty does, use sed to print "qwerty12 was ere" inside existing executables :D :P | 20:12 |
| supermaz | lcuk_holiday: good idea! I write a daemon that dynamically injects text into other applets and showing the number of new messages! great idea! | 20:12 |
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| supermaz | at least it is more haxx0r | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | timelyx: pong | 20:13 |
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| lcuk_holiday | heh | 20:13 |
| lcuk_holiday | hiya Stskeeps \o | 20:13 |
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| Stskeeps | lo lcuk_holiday | 20:13 |
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| lcuk_holiday | enjoy the festival | 20:13 |
| TomaszD | no timeless here Stskeeps | 20:14 |
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| Stskeeps | TomaszD: yeah, i think he might be out for today | 20:16 |
| * GAN800 spilled half his lunch on the floor when some idiot pulled out in front on him. :( | 20:16 | |
| Stskeeps | 'lo gan | 20:17 |
| X-Fade | GAN800: Next time, take a table at MCD? :) | 20:17 |
| GAN800 | They need to start taking people's licenses away when their reaction times breach the 2 second mark. | 20:18 |
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| GAN800 | I don't think I've had a McDonald's lunch meal in at least 5 years. | 20:20 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders idly if he still has spiders in his hair from sleeping a week in tent. | 20:21 | |
| rzr | GAN800: so did I | 20:21 |
| rzr | before each time i went to mcdo i told myself : never never again | 20:22 |
| GAN800 | Their breakfast stuff is OK, but if you're getting a fastfood hamburger I can't see any justification for getting one there. | 20:22 |
| rzr | GAN800: supersize menu man ! | 20:22 |
| derf | lardman: spadix has a working version of zbar with my QR code integrated. | 20:22 |
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| GAN800 | rzr, I'm not having trouble so far. ;) | 20:23 |
| GAN800 | Eating chili and a baked potato from Wendy's today. | 20:23 |
| wazd | oh, thanks for reminder , need to go to McD :) | 20:23 |
| GAN800 | Couldn't stand the thought of another bowl of soup after 4 days of liquid diet. | 20:23 |
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| lcuk_holiday | Stskeeps, would it be easier developing for mer if hildon wasnt there - but using stock gtk | 20:54 |
| lcuk_holiday | or is that a seriously harsh amount of code to allow it | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk_holiday: it's a bit of a difficult discussion.. in my world hildon should have been in gtk mainline from the start :P | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | and not really | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | they're all widgets | 20:55 |
| lcuk_holiday | yeah i know | 20:56 |
| lcuk_holiday | and i can see why, but if you took the default behaviours of the default gtk and tried to map it to expected behaviour | 20:56 |
| lcuk_holiday | kinda like the way qt is being warped around tablet | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | i'm welcoming Qt with open arms | 20:57 |
| lcuk_holiday | i dont doubt that | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | if Vala had existed, and Hildon Desktop had been written in it, it might actually have been readable | 20:59 |
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| lcuk_holiday | agreed | 21:00 |
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| RST38h | http://gizmodo.com/5308440/nokia-n97-review-nokia-is-doomed | 21:07 |
| RST38h | ho ho ho | 21:07 |
| RST38h | Ovi Store. ho ho ho | 21:08 |
| Meizirkki | ho ho ho | 21:09 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Where? | 21:09 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: see above link | 21:09 |
| RST38h | the funny thing is, the guy actually like most preinstalled apps. until he tried the Ovi store =) | 21:10 |
| RST38h | Sts: Speaking of Qt, arms is not where it will go =) | 21:10 |
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| Stskeeps | mm, anyone know if HAL support in Xomap is just generally broken? | 21:24 |
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| finn | formated the SD card on a windows XP box and I still get the "no filesystem available" | 21:27 |
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| RST38h | Sega finally invents a robotic cat. | 21:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | The one from Chu Chu Rocket? | 21:32 |
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| * RST38h is eagerly waiting for robotic octopi though... for petting, you know | 21:32 | |
| RST38h | qwerty: no, freekishly "real" one | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: any knowledge on HAL & Xomap? | 21:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: I want my KapuKapus :) | 21:33 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: lol, me? | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: yeah, you have some freakish knowledge at times :P | 21:34 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Not this time. :) Out of curiosity, 'tis the Fn problem? | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | well i know what it is now | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | XKB info isn't set cos HAL support in Xomap is broken, -- because it doesn't even use HAL for Maemo :P | 21:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I found disabling hildon-input-method in Maemo would render my Fn key useless | 21:37 |
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| Stskeeps | heh | 21:37 |
| finn | mhhh want the usb sd card reader to work :/ | 21:38 |
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| wazd | another so-so review of n97 http://gizmodo.com/5308440/nokia-n97-review-nokia-is-doomed | 21:50 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Just posted it minutes ago :) | 21:52 |
| wazd | RST38h: oh :) | 21:52 |
| RST38h | wazd: nothing new though - the keyboard sucks and Ovi just blows. | 21:52 |
| RST38h | wazd: Have you read AAS suggestion about Ovi? =) | 21:52 |
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| wazd | RST38h: nope) | 21:54 |
| RST38h | wazd: http://www.mobileindustryreview.com/2009/07/nokias_ovi_lets_the_market_decide_the_market_says_no_and_how_to_fix_it.html | 21:54 |
| RST38h | wazd: Somehow he forgot to mention electric cattle prods and food deprivation =) | 21:55 |
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| wazd | btw, i've recently installed iTunes to look thru iPhones app store and it sucked badly :) | 21:59 |
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| RST38h | Well, all those stores starting with Handango have got the same problem | 21:59 |
| wazd | not on n800 but on a freaking multicore, thousands of ram rig :) | 21:59 |
| RST38h | Hundreds of similar crappy apps. | 21:59 |
| wazd | I couldn't even look thru it cause it was damn slow | 22:00 |
| suihkulokki | liars, steve wouldn't let any crappy apps to iphone app store! | 22:00 |
| wazd | not to mention iTunes came to my PC like a gypsy, with billion of it's relatives :) | 22:02 |
| RST38h | suihkulokki: Me and Steve, we have different definitions of "crappy"... | 22:02 |
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| wazd | Safari, Bojour, Quicktime and so and so :) | 22:03 |
| RST38h | wazd: that is why I can't install quicktime - the moment you say "yes" to install, it drops a whole shitload of unneeded stuff to your hd | 22:03 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Quicktime Alternative FTW | 22:04 |
| wazd | Would you like to install Safari? -No -Quicktime 10? -No Bonjour support? -No. Would you like to buy a Mac? -No Macbook maybe? -No. Well, at least an iPod? -No Oh crap... | 22:05 |
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| wazd | My friend don't understand how can I be a designer and don't like Apple same time :) | 22:07 |
| wazd | friends* | 22:07 |
| lbt | sure? | 22:09 |
| RST38h | wazd: Not gay enough? | 22:10 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I don't know how these things are connected :) | 22:10 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Through heightened sense of style of course~! | 22:10 |
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| wazd | lbt: sure bout what?) | 22:11 |
| lbt | you have >1 friend ? ;) | 22:11 |
| wazd | lbt: I thought exactly the same xD | 22:11 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, maybe :) | 22:12 |
| wazd | RST38h: haven't tested the dependancy between gayness and style sense levels :D | 22:12 |
| RST38h | wazd: need a sufficiently large sample, indeed... | 22:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: You do tend to draw Mac-styled icons though, so not everything is lost yet =) | 22:13 |
| wazd | RST38h: there's no sch thing as "mac style" :) Well, there is OS X icon guidelines but I've made my two icons without any guidelines at all :) | 22:15 |
| lcuk_holiday | wazd, when you hang many independent clocks upon a wall, without any real connectivity the pendulums will settle into sync with each other | 22:16 |
| lbt | don't forget about the wall | 22:17 |
| * Stskeeps sits down and listens to quim's talk | 22:18 | |
| lcuk_holiday | of course, thats the real answer but people expect other mechanisms - wazd, do you have a wardrobe full of turtleneck sweaters? lol | 22:18 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: from his keynote? | 22:18 |
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| wazd | lcuk_holiday: I have jeans, turtleneck sweater and even glasses :D | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: yeah | 22:19 |
| lcuk_holiday | and a new liver? | 22:19 |
| auntieNeo | uh, how can I tell if I'm using diablo or chinook? the thing says it's version 5.2008.43-7 | 22:19 |
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| Stskeeps | auntieNeo: diablo | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | wiki.maemo.org/Codenames , i think | 22:20 |
| wazd | lcuk_holiday: oh my god! I'm Steve Jobs! | 22:20 |
| lcuk_holiday | :O | 22:22 |
| * auntieNeo throws a nokia phone at Jobs | 22:22 | |
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| wazd | auntieNeo: I'm melting! Bwaaaaargh!11 | 22:23 |
| auntieNeo | heh, got my N810 today... finally <_< | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | woo | 22:24 |
| auntieNeo | I think I runned it out of memory, 'cuz it frozed :( | 22:25 |
| auntieNeo | lol | 22:25 |
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| Stskeeps | you ought to try out Mer sometime :P | 22:25 |
| auntieNeo | I'm planning on it :P | 22:25 |
| auntieNeo | since it's rumored that nokia will drop N8*0 support :/ | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | it's fact, not rumour | 22:26 |
| auntieNeo | although, I'm also planning on installing debian and using dwm ;P | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | don't bother with debian really - if it's deblet | 22:26 |
| auntieNeo | I'm not really into the tablet stuff, more into the terminal stuff | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | it's old and unmaintaine | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | d | 22:26 |
| auntieNeo | mmm | 22:26 |
| auntieNeo | debian? | 22:27 |
| auntieNeo | debian arm? | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | Mer is the successor of Deblet, the debian port to nokia internet tablet :P | 22:27 |
| auntieNeo | debian arm is one of the most maintained arm distros out there | 22:27 |
| auntieNeo | heh | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i know | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | i fucked up an exam because of the damn thing | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:27 |
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| auntieNeo | mmm... but uh... I thought maemo was debian based anyway | 22:27 |
| wazd | http://static.maemo.org/static/m/maemo_brainstorm_introduction.swf <- wow, who did this?) | 22:27 |
| Jaffa | bergie, I think | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | auntieNeo: yeah, but insisting any sanity from installating debian packages should not be expected | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:28 |
| wazd | Emilia Hjelm I suppose :) | 22:28 |
| auntieNeo | does Mer have a real X server? i.e. can I run dwm? ;P | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | auntieNeo: Xomap is a real X server | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not sure what dwm is :P | 22:29 |
| auntieNeo | okay :P | 22:29 |
| auntieNeo | dwm is a < 2000 line window manager | 22:30 |
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| Stskeeps | ah | 22:30 |
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| erik___ | so that's ok, the screen have leess than 200 lines also :) | 22:30 |
| Stskeeps | you can really do what you want except for GNOME desktop | 22:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:30 |
| auntieNeo | bleh, GNOME ;P | 22:30 |
| erik___ | s/200/20000/ | 22:30 |
| infobot | erik___ meant: so that's ok, the screen have leess than 20000 lines also :) | 22:30 |
| auntieNeo | I meant 2kloc | 22:31 |
| erik___ | I know, i was kidding :) | 22:31 |
| auntieNeo | you can't kid on the internet. this is serious business | 22:31 |
| erik___ | (and utterly failed my sed) | 22:31 |
| wazd | http://s58.radikal.ru/i161/0907/47/44584345dafa.jpg <- possible BlueMaemo multimedia screen :) | 22:31 |
| lcuk_holiday | heh much cleaner than my crabby one for talking to my windows daemon http://liqbase.net/liq.20090624_222446.lib.scr.png | 22:35 |
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| wazd | lcuk_holiday: well, you have fonts AA, good step forward :) | 22:37 |
| lcuk_holiday | thats been standard for ages, nothing special | 22:37 |
| lcuk_holiday | even original liqbase had them | 22:37 |
| wazd | lcuk_holiday: hmm | 22:41 |
| wazd | lcuk_holiday: maybe I was wrong :) | 22:41 |
| lcuk_holiday | theres just so little of liqbase using fonts that you dont normally notice ;) | 22:41 |
| Macer | i want a damn touchbook! | 22:42 |
| Macer | heh | 22:42 |
| Macer | i hate waiting for crap to come out. | 22:42 |
| Macer | n900.. touchbook.. a pc that doesnt suck... | 22:43 |
| Macer | etc | 22:43 |
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| auntieNeo | everything sucks :P | 22:45 |
| auntieNeo | except for the gameboy pocket | 22:46 |
| auntieNeo | that was perfect | 22:46 |
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| auntieNeo | I was waiting for the pandora when I thought "screw that" and bought the N810 ;P | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | good choice | 22:47 |
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| auntieNeo | I'm still waiting for a device that will continue the HP Jornada form factor :/ | 22:48 |
| auntieNeo | but that will never happen, sadly :( | 22:48 |
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| Firebird | auntieNeo, doesn't Sony VAIO make one that's close? http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/21/article-1125682-0300EC1D000005DC-283_468x344.jpg | 22:51 |
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| Macer | heh | 22:56 |
| Macer | well i am sold on this touchbook | 22:56 |
| Macer | sure would like to see what kind of "custom os" it runs | 22:57 |
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| Macer | considering the n900 probably wont be out til 2012 | 22:57 |
| Macer | heh | 22:57 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Macer: s/n900/Pandora/ :) | 22:58 |
| Macer | well. whatever thwey want to call it | 22:58 |
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| Macer | i suppose renaming it is progress | 22:58 |
| Macer | so maybe 2011 | 22:58 |
| Macer | :) | 22:58 |
| Macer | then when it comes out it will be old hardware | 22:58 |
| Macer | ah well. i am going to order some food | 22:59 |
| RST38h | VAX loses 0:3 | 23:00 |
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| Macer | pandora huh? | 23:00 |
| Macer | thats kind of a crappy name | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | pandora's box of excuses | 23:01 |
| Macer | haha | 23:01 |
| Macer | the only thing left in the box is hope | 23:01 |
| Macer | :) | 23:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | If scamming is considered an evil, then I guess the name is befitting... | 23:02 |
| Macer | like hope nokia doesnt abandon a niche market device? | 23:02 |
| RST38h | While you are joking, N900 is quickly closing on Pandora in terms of empty promises =( | 23:02 |
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| Macer | RST38h: yeah. you guys should give up on nokia | 23:02 |
| * ShadowJK can't remember any promises | 23:02 | |
| Macer | and find a new device | 23:02 |
| Macer | heh | 23:02 |
| Macer | and change th # name to Mer | 23:03 |
| Macer | because maemo seems dead | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | if maemo is dead then isn't mer too dead? | 23:04 |
| Macer | no. they can take over from where nokia abandoned them | 23:05 |
| Stskeeps | hah, :P | 23:05 |
| Stskeeps | not yet | 23:06 |
| Stskeeps | give me a budget for a developer team | 23:06 |
| wazd | Macer: n900 wont be out untill june 2035 ;) | 23:06 |
| coldboot | I still don't understand why anyone would want an n810. | 23:06 |
| coldboot | I don't know what Nokia's trying to do with this device. | 23:06 |
| auntieNeo | lol :( | 23:07 |
| auntieNeo | it's for geeks that have no use for the device but to hack it ;P | 23:07 |
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| wazd | btw, if only sony put an arm into Vaio P - that would be a real thing :) | 23:07 |
| auntieNeo | that's why I bought it | 23:07 |
| qwerty12_N810 | coldboot: you and Luke-Jr should team up :) | 23:07 |
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| Stskeeps | coldboot: what would you want with it? | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | I bought N810 because it had bigger screen and more RAM than my cellphone :) nicer for browsing internet on the couch than on the phone | 23:08 |
| * wazd listening to "the Wall" | 23:08 | |
| ShadowJK | as a bonus it's faster too | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | and runs linux :) | 23:08 |
| coldboot | Stskeeps: For it not to be so huge and have a cell radio, and a decent keyboard. | 23:09 |
| Stskeeps | coldboot: get a n900 then. really. | 23:09 |
| ShadowJK | The only decent keyboard, the E70 keyboard, has been killed :) | 23:09 |
| Stskeeps | the developer units we saw (not a n900, .. just a devel board) was drool-worthy. | 23:09 |
| wazd | I wonder if there's any device that is enough for absolutely everyone?) | 23:09 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i doubt it. i will have multiple devices in my apartment. | 23:10 |
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| wazd | Everyone will always want something | 23:10 |
| ShadowJK | wazd, just the screen size issue makes it impossible :) | 23:10 |
| waynew | hi, does anyone know what hildonized means? | 23:10 |
| ShadowJK | I want bigger screen, say 7 - 10", other people want smaller :) | 23:10 |
| RST38h | wazd: Yes. Drugs. | 23:10 |
| auntieNeo | waynew: it means that the app has been modified to use the hildon gui | 23:11 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: it means converting an interface and app to fit the mobile form factor and interfacing | 23:11 |
| coldboot | ShadowJK: Isn't Apple making a tablet PC soon? | 23:11 |
| auntieNeo | i.e. it's been maemoized | 23:11 |
| ShadowJK | coldboot, I suspect there would be even greater pain making that run Linux and all the usual software I use on my computer than a future N900.. | 23:12 |
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| ShadowJK | plus I'm not too keen on the appletax :) | 23:13 |
| wazd | Like everybody wants a thin and light, pocketable device with 7" screen, 80000 MAh battery, all possible radios, ARM cpu with ability to run Crysis, fullsized keyboard, huge trackpad, capacitive touchscreen with stylus support, rocketlauncher and coffee machine :) | 23:13 |
| coldboot | ShadowJK: What do you want your handheld device to do? I love using Linux, but the fumbly awkwardness of the n810 or n900's interface isn't worth it. | 23:13 |
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| ShadowJK | what awkwardness? | 23:13 |
| wazd | coldboot: use KDE | 23:14 |
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| waynew | auntieNeo: thanks | 23:14 |
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| tbf | coldboot: interesting that you know the n900's UI already... :-p | 23:14 |
| coldboot | The keyboard sucks, having to use a stylus instead of touching, the slow interface (not in terms of software performance) | 23:14 |
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| coldboot | tbf: I'm assuming it won't be a giant leap over the previous. | 23:14 |
| ShadowJK | if nokia came out with N900 with the same hw specs as rumoured, but ran basically diablo/maemo4 on it, I'd still buy it. I'd probably be less hesitant to buy it that way really.. | 23:15 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: use Mer then | 23:15 |
| coldboot | Nokia's n810 interface is basically the same design as a desktop computer. | 23:15 |
| auntieNeo | lol, w/e coldboot | 23:16 |
| tbf | coldboot: seems you didn't see maemo5 sdk screenshots yet | 23:16 |
| coldboot | The better mobile devices has tried to make things faster to do. | 23:16 |
| ShadowJK | If they added a tiny trackball in the corner or on tbe back it'd be perfect :-) | 23:16 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: it's UI is optimized to run fast on a microwave :) | 23:16 |
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| auntieNeo | I bought my n810 knowing that the keyboard sucked... so I've been building a chorded keyboard to velcro to the back of it ;P | 23:17 |
| coldboot | tbf: Where are the screenshots? | 23:17 |
| auntieNeo | now I just gotta wire the keys :/ | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | coldboot, I don't want some new UI designed by some idiots who think they know what "intuitive", "easy to use" and $buzzword means if it makes it harder to run normal programs on it | 23:17 |
| tbf | coldboot: google has them | 23:17 |
| lcuk_holiday | auntieNeo, are you using a standard command protocol to get data back - could your chording keyboard be used as a game pad expansion | 23:18 |
| ShadowJK | or the latest fingerpainting craze, or whatever comes next after the fingerpainting stuff. Maybe using your nose | 23:18 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: thak you xD | 23:18 |
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| auntieNeo | lcuk_holiday: uh, I'm using a microcontroller to convert it into a standard usb keyboard | 23:19 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: iPhone users already use noses btw :D | 23:19 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: to answer the call in winter :) | 23:19 |
| auntieNeo | lol | 23:19 |
| ShadowJK | wazd, yes I'm aware they worship the apple ceo | 23:19 |
| lcuk_holiday | auntieNeo, did you know, there is an internal usb panel i believe - and theres an extension battery case and mods by someone else for extended memory card | 23:20 |
| lcuk_holiday | i bet the extended case could be modded and you could have a wire-free implementation | 23:20 |
| coldboot | ShadowJK: There are definitely design considerations to make when making a mobile device easier to use, regardless of buzzwords. If you just want a small laptop, then I guess you have it. | 23:20 |
| lcuk_holiday | (visible wires anyway) | 23:20 |
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| auntieNeo | there's another USB header in the n810? | 23:20 |
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| coldboot | ShadowJK: But without a mouse and keyboard, all of the things you'd usually do are much less convenient on a mobile device. | 23:21 |
| lcuk_holiday | yes, under/near the battery i believe (i hope im not just remembering the wrong thing | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | there's just one USB port on the N810.. it's accessible through the port on the side or the headers near/under the battery | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | there are also some diagnostic pads and a serial port near/under the battery.. | 23:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk_holiday: that's serial | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | there's USB there too | 23:21 |
| lcuk_holiday | it may be physically connected to the external one, but for a device designed to be physically attached it would be be more comfortable | 23:21 |
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| ShadowJK | and yes it's connected to the external one so if you use it you can't use the external :) | 23:22 |
| lcuk_holiday | the external is pretty much useless for most people | 23:22 |
| lcuk_holiday | you cant carry round without uncomfortable stand not closing | 23:22 |
| lcuk_holiday | using the internal one for a new input device would be cool | 23:23 |
| ShadowJK | coldboot, there is a keyboard, and if they'd make the stylus behave like a laptop's touchpad or add keys on the side for mouse buttons it'd be nice :-) | 23:23 |
| auntieNeo | there's a bunch of contacts under the battery... which one? :P | 23:23 |
| auntieNeo | I googled it... | 23:23 |
| lcuk_holiday | does it matter right now as long as we find out for sure if thats a possible pathway | 23:23 |
| auntieNeo | mmm... I'd have to drill through the metal battery cover or something | 23:24 |
| auntieNeo | I wonder if you can get cover replacements... | 23:24 |
| lcuk_holiday | thats why i mentioned the alternative ones | 23:24 |
| lcuk_holiday | there are people who can make them to spec | 23:24 |
| coldboot | ShadowJK: The keyboard sucks, and isn't always deployed. And you don't use it like you do on a computer, with at least one hand almost always on it. I'm just saying that since the way you use the hardware is different so the software has to accommodate to make things just as convenient. | 23:25 |
| lcuk_holiday | if you can show a simple hackable workable example (which works for you) then others may get involved | 23:25 |
| coldboot | So the design of the iPhone, although limited, makes it much easier to do the tasks you'd generally want to do on a mobile device. | 23:25 |
| coldboot | Also a blackberry, which is less intuitive, but I'd say much faster to do things. | 23:25 |
| coldboot | Whereas a nokia device is mostly just a small laptop with a crappy keyboard and a stylus. | 23:25 |
| auntieNeo | coldboot: people buy the n810 because they don't want to be limited like that :P | 23:25 |
| lbt | Jaffa: badger.... git-svn ? .... :) | 23:25 |
| lcuk_holiday | auntieNeo, http://www.remotefactory.com/32gbn810sdSSMetal.html | 23:26 |
| coldboot | auntieNeo: Yeah I understand that, there needs to be more of a compromise with usability or nobody's going to want to use the thing. | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK | The tasks I do on a mobile device mostly falls down to: 1) internet browsing, or 2) forget it and pick up the N810, or 3) start putty so I can get to real computer | 23:26 |
| coldboot | It can be way more usable without being limited. | 23:26 |
| auntieNeo | usability is a very subjective word | 23:26 |
| auntieNeo | I define usable as the ability to recompile my kernel ;P | 23:27 |
| ShadowJK | the problem is that there's a /ton/ of software that you'd have to rewrite | 23:27 |
| lcuk_holiday | ondevice? using binary switches | 23:27 |
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| ShadowJK | having python available on the cellphone helps alot, but it's quite awkward to find and execute the glue scripts you end up writing to fill in the gaps | 23:28 |
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| coldboot | ShadowJK: Or have both ways coexisting. | 23:28 |
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| lcuk_holiday | auntieNeo, good luck with your project \o | 23:28 |
| coldboot | auntieNeo: And this is why only a few people are ever going to use these things. | 23:29 |
| * lcuk_holiday goes back lurking | 23:29 | |
| auntieNeo | lcuk_holiday: thanks! I'll email that guy :P | 23:33 |
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| lcuk_holiday | get your proto together first, have you made one before | 23:34 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: im just saying that it is good you made mer universal | 23:34 |
| Macer | at least you wont be stuck only using nokia stuff | 23:34 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: i only did it for the free hardware donations | 23:35 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:35 |
| Stskeeps | nah, kidding. developing on x86 for mer is -delicious- | 23:35 |
| Macer | nokia will leave you stranded once they see it isnt viable to continue support | 23:35 |
| Macer | x86?! | 23:35 |
| Macer | dont do it! | 23:35 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: oh, we have x86 port since day 1 really | 23:36 |
| Macer | heh | 23:36 |
| ShadowJK | Nokia did S60 on x86 :) | 23:36 |
| Macer | lol | 23:36 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: it helps a lot to be able to try your app on your desktop pc first | 23:36 |
| ShadowJK | apparently it's "very fast" | 23:36 |
| Macer | i'd hope a 3GHz x86 would go faster than a 400MHz arm | 23:37 |
| Macer | ;) | 23:37 |
| Macer | i mean even with taking arch into account | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | oh I think it was Atom they used | 23:37 |
| Macer | but i was just saying nokia is a corp | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | for some demo | 23:37 |
| Macer | whose main objective is profit | 23:38 |
| Macer | they will eventually leave you to fend for yourself | 23:38 |
| Macer | since personally i think "pandora" will be a dud | 23:39 |
| Macer | n810s had a chance if they didnt get screwed by the wimax projects | 23:39 |
| Macer | but wimax became the new enron | 23:39 |
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| Macer | when i think wimax i think enron and the india power plant | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | hey I'm on wimax :) | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | non-mobile wimax though | 23:40 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: heh | 23:40 |
| Macer | non mobile? whats the point? | 23:41 |
| * ShadowJK has a dish in his antenna tower in the backyard | 23:41 | |
| ShadowJK | The point is broadband internet :) | 23:41 |
| Macer | unless youre in the boonies and cant get anything | 23:41 |
| Macer | else | 23:41 |
| Macer | clocking 54mbit ShadowJK ? | 23:41 |
| ShadowJK | ADSL doesn't reach too well over 10km of mixed copper/steel/aluminium wires :) | 23:41 |
| Macer | get cable | 23:42 |
| Macer | or fios | 23:42 |
| Macer | bbl. have to do stuff | 23:42 |
| ShadowJK | it would be stupid to dig down cable | 23:42 |
| ShadowJK | we're digging down fibre :) | 23:42 |
| ShadowJK | but it'll take a year or two still before it reaches coverage and gets any connectivity | 23:43 |
| ShadowJK | if the mobile operators had been a year or two faster with 3G rollout I imagine people wouldn't have signed up the fibre | 23:45 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: where is it? (the dish I mean) | 23:46 |
| ShadowJK | and just replaced their telephones and adsl with 3G instead when the telephone company withdraws and takes their copper with them | 23:46 |
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| ShadowJK | I live in .fi if that's what you mean | 23:47 |
| RST38h | oh | 23:47 |
| *** baraujo has quit IRC | 23:47 | |
| * RST38h was wondering where in the world you would have to use a dish | 23:47 | |
| ShadowJK | The company providing wimax standardized on "one size fits all" for the equipment | 23:47 |
| ShadowJK | The range is somewhere between 20-30km with it | 23:48 |
| RST38h | so why not wimax then? | 23:48 |
| ShadowJK | it is wimax? | 23:49 |
| RST38h | with a dish? hmm | 23:49 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 23:49 |
| RST38h | interesting | 23:49 |
| ShadowJK | directional antenna | 23:49 |
| ShadowJK | looks like a tiny flat satellite dish | 23:49 |
| RST38h | yea, at 10km range you would probably need it... | 23:49 |
| RST38h | now when I think about it... | 23:49 |
| Luke-Jr | auntieNeo: except the N810 is closed, so us geeks can't actually hack it properly | 23:50 |
| Luke-Jr | coldboot: convert to Gentoo *hypnotise beam* | 23:51 |
| ShadowJK | the base station is at the top of a 90 metre tall mast, the backbone connection is a big high-gain microwave ethernet bridge to another huge mast about 40km away connected to fibre :-) | 23:51 |
| coldboot | Luke-Jr: How is it closed? | 23:51 |
| Stskeeps | here we go again.. | 23:51 |
| * Stskeeps ducttapes Luke-Jr to the wall | 23:51 | |
| Luke-Jr | coldboot: lack of specification of any kind for the GPS and battery charger | 23:51 |
| RST38h | Sts: dict tape his mouth too | 23:52 |
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| coldboot | Luke-Jr: That sucks. | 23:52 |
| RST38h | Sts: do it with a Windows serial number sticker, for better effect | 23:52 |
| * qwerty12_N810 has a vista one, should be befitting for the task | 23:52 | |
| eichi | hm mediabox is a good app, but needs very much buttons-press to get music playing ;) kanu is there much faster | 23:53 |
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| * ShadowJK tries to remember how to relaunch bme after it dies | 23:56 | |
| Stskeeps | panic, usually | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:56 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Panicking not working? :) | 23:56 |
| * ShadowJK shall kll bme then attach charger | 23:57 | |
| ShadowJK | voltage recorded before and willdisconnect charger, restart bme and take new voltage reading in 15 min :) | 23:58 |
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| Luke-Jr | … | 23:58 |
| Luke-Jr | Stskeeps: ShadowJK gets the bomb before me | 23:58 |
| ShadowJK | to test if it charges without the blob | 23:58 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Luke-Jr: how's your reversing going btw? | 23:58 |
| Luke-Jr | qwerty12_N810: haven't had time for a week or 2 | 23:59 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah | 23:59 |
| ShadowJK | luke: thsnks for reminding me... current battery state would make it approach danger levels in <30 minutes if charger ends up dumping all power into battery :) | 23:59 |
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