IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-06-28

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pupnikjust hacked it to work00:05
pupnikjust substitute /home/user for userhome and comment out the home import in /usr/bin/vdown and /user/lib/gvdown/main.py00:06
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Nichod_Anyone willing to assist?00:24
qwerty12_N810Nichod_: Youtube: - it's awesome, commenting, uploading etc00:25
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qwerty12_N810For podcasts, look at gpodder. And that's about all that I know. :)00:27
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Nichod_Thank you :)00:30
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GAN800andre__, ping?00:38
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qwerty12_N810pupnik: I'm anal-retentive: userhome = (os.path.expanduser("~")+'/') :)01:09
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pupnikk ty01:10
pupnikqwerty12_N810 i got errors running   : from user import home as userhome01:13
qwerty12_N810Yeah, this is the el-cheapo knockoff version that works on a tablet and is more generic than hardcoding "/home/user" :D01:14
pupnik  File "/usr/bin/vdown", line 39, in <module>01:17
pupnikImportError: No module named user01:17
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pupniknow im going to need a bigger micro-sd01:19
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Macerlittle kids wouldn't get the joke01:22
Macerbut in justice league of america when the other super hero is like "you are a credit to your people son" while talking to the green lantern01:22
Macerthat was kind of funny01:22
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pupnikwhat is the joke01:30
Proteousgreen lantern is black01:30
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Macerman i love this artigo01:37
Macerit's great01:37
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Maceri don't know if it's opensolaris or the artigo itself but it has been performing like a little beast :)01:37
Maceri'm suprised the damn cpu hasn't burned out yet01:38
Macerah well. later.01:40
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lcukif i plug in 4 cameras to my computer can i access all 4 from gstreamer?01:52
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qwerty12_N810pupnik: was bored and can't get to sleep:
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amrdropbox client for maemo!02:19
amrid love that02:19
pupniknice qwerty12_N810 !02:20
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amrfennec is quite poor02:34
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amrnice idea02:34
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Pavlovnext release will be about 2x faster02:39
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lcukPavlov, is it all publically buildable to see how its progressing (i gather a 2x speedup wont just drop in over night and will come incrementally02:52
Pavlovlcuk: yeah you can build it yourself -- but this 2x speedup will actually kinda drop in heh02:52
Pavlovprolly in the next week or two02:53
lcukwheres it comin from?02:53
Pavlovwe were doing some kind dumb stuff during scrolling02:53
Pavlovand paints in general02:53
lcukyeah, every extra blit takes speed away02:54
Pavlovwere hitting cpu/memory bandwidth for the work we were doing.. just didn't need to do 1/2-2/3 of it every time02:54
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Pavlovso we're doing 2 things right now: tile caching the page contents for rendering and changing the way we scroll a good bit to be a whole lot cpu intensive02:55
lcukpavlov general optimizations
Pavlovmay play around with doing yuv tiles/xvideo at some point02:55
lcuktile caching?02:55
Pavlovyou're doing that now right?02:55
lcukive been doing that for the last 12months :)02:55
lcukas in just painting a small section?02:56
Pavlovsorta google maps style02:56
Pavlovwe can be as agressive as we weant02:56
Pavlovbut wanted a more general system02:56
lcukyeah, in liqbase i have a slightly similar setup, tho the text and background and everything are real time - i delay loading images until they actually become visible02:57
Pavlovapart from the work we're doing right now, someone else is doing lazy image loading02:57
lcukjpegs and pngs take up a shedload of cpu, so if you can just get the headers and sizes02:58
Pavlovi've seen a few cpus lately doing hw jpeg decoding02:58
Pavlovsome of the broadcom ones02:58
Pavlovbut haven't written any tests for that yet02:58
lcukyeah theres a jpegdsp project around waiting for time02:58
Pavlovyeah, that'd be cool too02:58
lcukbut that would have drawback of lowering max cpu02:58
lcukwhat you give with one hand..02:59
Macerholy shit that special about enron02:59
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Macertalk about a bunch of mean bastards :) just goes to show that if you have it in you to screw up the lives of thousands you can be set for life haha02:59
Maceri'm suprised nobody has made a movie about it03:00
Pavlovlcuk: but yeah, the good news is that aside from painting we actually have very little overhead03:00
Pavlovso just gotta optimize it to be less dumb03:00
lcukuntil someone puts a flash anim on lol03:01
Pavlovflash. sigh.03:01
Macerit's called enron: the smartest guys in the room03:01
Macereverybody should have to watch it :)03:01
lcukpeople expect to run desktop stuff if you give it to em03:01
lcukprinciple reason why i made my own sketch format instead of using svg ;)03:02
Pavlovwe're trying hard to make it so people on the web don't need flash03:02
lcukMacer, dunno not in same country as you to see same progs03:02
lcukPavlov, but then again it gets taken away with <video> and <audio> still03:02
Pavlovvideo and audio are easier for us to optimize though03:03
Pavlovflash is black box03:03
Macerlcuk: download it ;)03:03
lcukhas timeless ever shown you his stresstest03:03
Macerit's great haha03:03
Pavlovlcuk: which one?03:03
Macerit is coorperate greed at its best :)03:03
Macerthey were like corp nazis03:04
Macerabsolutely no empathy for anything03:04
Pavlovi know a guy that used to work at enron03:04
Pavlovtells me the best stories03:04
MacerPavlov: he was probably in the movie03:04
lcukPavlov, he has one knocking about that killed quite a few desktop browsers03:04
Pavlovlcuk: heh03:04
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Pavlovlcuk: we'll be able to split that page out of process soon enough03:05
Macerthe best one was the test they did where they had employees sitting at a table and told them no matter what they had to continue .. they told them they were shocking someone in another room with increasing electricity03:05
Pavlovour video stuff on the desktop could probably be sped up 3-5x03:05
Maceryou can hear someone pretending to scream in another room :) it had me in tears laughing03:05
Pavlovwith some work03:05
Pavlovmaybe more03:05
Pavlovits all software right now03:05
Maceri'm downloading it right now. that documentary should have won an award03:06
PavlovMacer: eh, i doubt it -- he was working for some company that got bought by them03:06
Pavlovbut sounded like the place was just a disaster in all aspects03:06
derfPavlov: 17:36:11< timelyx> [nsfw]
lcukPavlov, its got some nsfw photos but it should prove a good test03:07
lcukheh derf you saved me pastin the link i just found ;)03:07
Pavlovoh yeah03:07
Pavlovi've seen that page03:07
MacerPavlov: heh. enron stock is still on the markets at .07/share03:07
lcukon fennec?03:07
Maceri should buy enron03:08
Pavlovlcuk: no.. heh03:08
* Macer digs in his pocket for a few hundred dollars03:08
Pavlovlcuk: that page should get a _ton_ better when we stop agressively loading images03:08
lcukPavlov, have you seen/played with the latest liqbase-playground03:08
Pavlovlcuk: last thing i saw was whatever you showed me at maemo mozilla thing03:08
lcuknear enough, ive been playing muchly since :)03:09
derfPavlov: You work on fennec, or...?03:09
Macer0.010.00 / -20.00% Jun 2403:09
MacerEnron Capital Llc (OTHER OTC:ECTPQ)03:09
Pavlovderf: yeah03:09
derfDoes it actually support <video> yet?03:10
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Pavlovderf: it does, but theora decoding on the n810 is horribly slow03:10
Pavlovwe've got someone doing theora-on-the-dsp to see how much that'll win us03:10
derfI know.03:10
Pavlovgot someone else doing gstreamer backend for video03:10
Pavlovso we'd be able to support other formats that are fast on the device03:11
derfWell, even that will have to go through your software rendering pipeline, no?03:11
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jeremiahHey Pavlov03:11
lcukmornin jeremiah i gather at this time of the mornin you are off the clock lol03:12
jeremiahClock? There's a clock?03:12
Pavlovderf: yep, although that shouldn't completely kill us03:12
Pavlovderf: but we'll see03:12
lcukthere should be, but its having problems gettin through autobuilder ;)03:12
derfI was on one of the con calls where Theora rendering speed was discussed, and the numbers you guys were reporting were vastly inferior to what we were getting with just decoding the video, not displaying it.03:13
Pavlovderf: one thing we've talked about on small devices is doing a preview with a prominent full screen button03:13
Pavlovand doing xvideo03:13
jeremiahPavlov: Haven't dived into the package xulrunner thicket yet, but hoping to before Fremantle.03:13
Macer0.0080 ENRON CAP03:13
Macerwow. not even worth .01 :)03:13
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Pavlovjeremiah: no worries, we've been running around crazy lately -- prolly would have been slow on the replys03:13
Macera share costs 1/8th of a cent03:13
lcukPavlov, if you didnt have to worry about the 8x0, would the xvideo rebuild even come into consideration03:14
derfAs in, you were complaining of 1-2 fps, and we had 320x240 at 25 fps in pure software on an openmoko (vastly inferior to the N8x0 in processing speed).03:14
jeremiahCool. The maemo world is busy as well. We are doing some fun QA stuff so . . . :)03:14
lcukor is that actually specifically for video itself03:14
Pavlovderf: weird03:14
Macerenron did have an absolutely awesome logo03:14
Pavlovderf: we should definitely get some new numbers and some oprofile data03:15
Pavlovlcuk: just for the video in that case03:15
derfPavlov: Yeah. Though getting ds's dsp port will still go a long ways towards shutting up people who whine, "But H.264 is done in hardware!"03:15
Pavlovsince with fullscreen video you don't have to worry about compositing it with other elements on the page03:15
Pavlovderf: yeah03:15
lcukderf you just said numbers greatly different between decoding and viewing03:17
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lcukyou said 1-2 fps and 25fps, which tests gave which03:17
Pavlovwe were getting 1-2 fps in fennec for theora videos03:17
lcukand were on about different hardware as well which threw me03:17
Pavlovbut i personally haven't run any standalone tests03:17
lcukogg theora is a postcard format isnt it :)03:18
Pavlovim avoiding that troll!03:18
lcuksell it as such and tell epople who have it faster have a bug03:18
derflcuk: The openmoko is like a 200 MHz ARMv4.03:18
lcukok derf, but what speed was it rendering at03:19
lcukwas that the 25fps?03:19
lcukor was the 25fps just decoding03:19
derfWe didn't try rendering, that was just decoding to /dev/null03:19
lcukok much more reasonable03:19
derfStill, the point was, the difference was more than an order of magnitude.03:19
lcukwhat res is the moko?03:19
Pavlovpushing to the screen on that is probably going to take 10-15ms03:20
Pavlovon a 200mhz cpu03:20
Pavlovper frame03:20
derflcuk: 480x640.03:20
lcukcpu technically shouldnt be involved in pumping data from memory to lcd framebuffer03:20
lcukand depending on where the framebuffer itself is, you might have no moving anyway03:20
Pavlovlcuk: well, if you use overlays and yuv probably true03:21
Pavlovif you convert to rgb and draw using X..03:21
lcukx11 native rendering pathway still blits data at the end of the day onto a piece of memory which then needs moving to the lcd framebuffer03:21
lcukwe have that delay where native screen memory must be transported through a low bridge onto the hardware03:22
Pavlovthe yub2rgb() call is going to take 15ms though03:22
Pavlovat least03:23
lcukheh, thats another piece of hardware we cant use03:23
lcukwe have IVA core inside our omap2 that can do yuv->rgb and vice versa03:23
lcuksat idle03:23
jeremiahlcuk: Why does it sit idle?03:23
jeremiahSeems like a waste.03:23
jeremiahGood god.03:24
jeremiahNokia should be paying you lot.03:24
lcukjeremiah, the omap2 is essentially a quad core - there are effectively 4 ARM processors inside it, main cpu, dsp, powervr, iva03:24
derfThe DSP is not ARM.03:25
philvHrmn, is the PowerVR MBX an ARM core, or is it ImgTech's USSE?03:25
lcukderf, i thought internally it was a highly modified arm03:25
philvthe DSP definitely isn't03:26
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* lcuk retracts that, apologise03:27
lcukive always been under the impression it was just fudged over the years and specialized03:27
zeroproghey guys i just finished installing the sdk and i was just it just standard c programming or is it low level for n80003:28
lcukneither, you must write in python only03:28
Pavlovlow level python no brnaches03:29
lcukmax variable identifier length 3 characters03:30
derflcuk: The TI TMS320 line and the ARM line are about the same age, but independent.03:30
zeroprogthats so much better at python...but the maemo hello world is in c so i got confused03:30
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derflcuk: The easiest way to tell it's not ARM is that up through the C55x series, it was all 16-bit.03:31
jeremiahzeroprog: Python is a first class citizen on the tablet. :)03:33
zeroprogthats source devices are awesome03:34
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lcukderf, yeah i see my error03:36
lcukits still a quadcore tho :D03:37
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derfAnyway... I'm not sure video will ever be fast on the N8x0.03:37
derfAnd I was pretty sure ds was only targetting the C64x (OMAP3) with his Theora port.03:38
lcukyeah the videomode is 25fps in extreme cases03:38
lcukat 800*480yuv03:38
Pavlovderf: yeah he is03:39
derfSo you'll still have to wait for the next device.03:39
Pavlovwant some tegra chips in my devices03:40
lcukdont let gan hear you say that03:40
Pavlovtegra tegra tegra03:40
Pavlov720p video playback completely off the cpu is nice ;/03:41
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lcukthe best part about new hardware is the delay to finding out what you can do with it to slow it down03:42
lcukwhen all your existing software runs shit hot and you have headroom to code new cruft03:42
Pavlovi was laughing the other day about how mozilla's bulid times have basically remained constant throughout the last 10 years of newest hardware03:43
lcukhow long does it take?03:43
derfPavlov: Well, you're still using C++.03:43
Pavlovon my quad core 2.93ghz xeon mac pro running windows 7 with linux in vmware, my linux builds take about 13 minutes03:44
Pavlov(the vm only has 2 cores)03:44
lcukso no chance for me to build on device within this life time then? :D03:44
lcuktho 13mins isnt that bad03:45
Pavlovmm, no ;)03:45
lcukqt takes hours03:45
Pavlovi dunno what qt does03:45
Pavlovgoes off to lunch03:45
derflcuk: I don't think the device has enough memory, even if you've got the time.03:45
lcuki'd hate to make a typo03:45
Pavlovyeah, linking on a couple places would prolly fail;/03:45
lcuki tihnk its faster to make and load the punchcards in that time03:45
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MacerThe film won the Independent Spirit Award for Best Documentary Feature and was nominated for Best Documentary Feature at the 78th Academy Awards in 2006.[1]03:50
Macerguess it did win awards :)03:50
derfIt's got a scene with strippers set to Philip Glass.03:52
derfOf course it won awards.03:52
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soapWait - I'm missing something.05:19
soapStrippers? Philip Glass? Not in one of my dreams?  Where?05:19
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xnt14~seen b-man1605:24
infobotb-man16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1h 59m 12s ago, saying: 'ooooh'.05:24
KurtKrautsoap: I love Philip Glass. I'm listening a Glass song right now05:25
* xnt14 wants to kill the guy who made dd-wrt!!!! 05:25
* xnt14 hates his router05:25
* xnt14 needs a file from b-man :P05:25
soaphow can you hate dd-wrt?05:28
soapno, I mean seriously, I'm not just saying random things in response to whatever pops up on my screen.05:29
soapdd-wrt is like a good spouse.  Always there for you and never gets in your way.05:30
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Luke-JrDD-Wrt is a piece of crap05:43
bef0rdmmm I saw a video of somebody controlling his home lights and stuff with the n800 but can't find it again :|05:43
xnt14Luke-Jr, I Know, but my dad won't let me install anything without a gui (he likes gui), and the openwrt gui is crap :P05:48
xnt14well sorta crap05:48
xnt14cli ftw :P05:49
Luke-Jrxnt14: OpenWrt GUI isn't crap.05:51
xnt14well, for me its sorta limited05:51
xnt14ah well, nvm, I just prefer the cli05:51
* xnt14 wonders where the hell is b-man05:52
xnt14dd-wrt gui is sort of good, but the dev is an fucking retard05:53
xnt14you can't customize the gui05:53
* xnt14 goes and plays nexuiz05:58
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xnt14[server]Test Complete06:04
xnt14%mute #maemo06:05
xnt14GA doesn't want me to flood the channel :P06:05
* xnt14 goes back to nexuiz06:05
Macerenron was HORRIBLE06:06
Maceri just watched the whole thing06:06
GeneralAntillesPavlov, Tegra is a joke next to OMAP3.06:08
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GeneralAntillesPavlov, and it sure aint doing 720p with that ARM1106:10
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b-man16does anyone know if the diablo kernel has support for directfb?06:42
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ShadowJKprobably not06:49
b-man16i read somewhere that it can interface with omapfb06:50
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b-man16or fbdev06:50
ShadowJKwell, those exist06:51
b-man16i think that it requires enabling some functions in the kernel06:52
ShadowJKmplayer uses omapfb06:52
ShadowJKthough i dont know on what level06:53
timeless_mbpfwiw, stress was originally filed as a bug years ago06:53
timeless_mbpso yes, i *know* pavlov has seen it ;)06:53
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Luke-Jrdirectfb is a kernel thing?07:07
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PavlovGeneralAntilles: its about the whole package, not just one part ;p08:45
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CutMeOwnThroatwhere are the network connections saved?s09:53
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JaffaMorning, all10:55
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* Stskeeps is happy he can finally add sane translations strings into Mer10:58
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Stskeeps(and go on holiday for a week tomorrow)11:01
man_in_shacklucky you11:05
Stskeepswell, it's a music festival not so much a holiday, .. maybe a mental holiday :P11:06
man_in_shackthat's also cool11:06
Stskeepsdid you have any luck with reflashing your initfs?11:07
man_in_shackyeah, FINALLY got that fixed11:08
man_in_shackonly by using fiasco-flasher on the booted maemo11:08
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man_in_shacknow thinking about fiddling with nitdroid11:09
Stskeepsyeah, you'll probably be disappointed :P11:10
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man_in_shackfrom what i've read, it won't boot if the external memory card is inserted11:10
man_in_shackthat's a show-stopper for me11:10
Stskeepswhat were your primary complaints about mer, btw?11:10
Stskeepsjust so i can add them on the list of fthings to fix11:10
man_in_shackmostly that midori kept thinking i was hitting enter when i tried to put the cursor in a text field11:11
Stskeepsah, midori we can all agree on. we have Tear now11:11
Stskeepsyeah, you never tried Tear on Maemo?11:12
Stskeepsif not, you're -really- missing out11:12
man_in_shackis it in extras?11:12
Stskeepsnot sure, it has to be installed rather manually11:13
Stskeepseither way, give mer 0.15 a try and tell me what issues there are - released in two weeks11:13
Stskeepsbest source of bugs is disgrunted(?) users anyway :P11:13
man_in_shackmissing an 'l' in "disgruntled"11:14
man_in_shackyet another reason to not use mer ;)11:14
Stskeepsyeah, hence my "?" :P11:14
Stskeepsi am usually able to see when i'm making typos, so11:15
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man_in_shacki see "tearbookmarks" in my apps manager11:18
man_in_shacknot installable because there's no "tear" package11:18
Stskeepsyeah, but not the whole tear browser.. eitherway, it's really fast and useful browser :P11:18
Stskeepswebkit based too11:18
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man_in_shackno tear in debian unstable11:20
man_in_shackso can't even test it here11:20
man_in_shackthough i have noticed performance issues with midori on my desktop11:20
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man_in_shackStskeeps, oh, another thing, mer seems to take a while to boot up11:25
Stskeepsyou want to know what exactly causes it? it's really silly11:26
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Stskeepsit's the setup of keyboard and console11:26
Stskeepsthe way to do it in debian/ubuntu is so shitty it adds 30 seconds to boot11:26
man_in_shackcan't most of that be yanked from the boot process?11:26
Stskeepsprobably - currently i'm not yanking anything from standard ubuntu because it might have reprocussions11:27
man_in_shackwell i might try some yanking just on my copy11:28
man_in_shackStskeeps, another minor niggle i have is that the osk doesn't disappear when the hardware keyboard is extended11:28
Stskeepsadmittedly, and now i that have a N810 (donated by nokia) i can see why that's bloody irritating11:29
man_in_shacki can put up with it11:30
man_in_shackif the other issues i have are solved :D11:30
lcukhey Stskeeps Jaffa11:31
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man_in_shackoh fun11:33
man_in_shacki just lost a bunch of fonts on my desktop11:33
Stskeepsmorning qwerty12_N81011:34
qwerty12_N810hey Stskeeps11:35
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: promoted locale-switcher, as i'm getting in timeless's en_US by default now11:36
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lcukgod help you :P11:36
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Ah, cool, but remember you'll need to set gksu's disable_grab option for n800 users11:36
Stskeeps(there were several grammatical errors in that sentence)11:36
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: mmkay11:37
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qwerty12_N810libgksu was a shithole. The only program I saw using version 2 loaded its symbols from the library >.<11:38
* Stskeeps hums along to nine inch nails - la mer11:38
lcuklol Stskeeps you gainin a theme tune11:43
man_in_shackStskeeps, does Tear have proxy settings?11:44
JaffaRight, run out of things to delay doing more chores11:44
Stskeepsman_in_shack: no clue, i think so11:44
man_in_shackStskeeps, can you check? :)11:44
Stskeepslcuk: i wish it was cc sa :P11:45
lcukStskeeps, contact them and ask :)11:46
qwerty12_N810To keep in with the Mer ==  "bitch" theme, ask for DSM - Skets11:47
man_in_shackgah, my ears11:47
man_in_shackis there a way to turn off the nokia splashscreen and noise on boot in maemo?11:47
lcuknokia splash can be replaced, but afaik not disablable11:48
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: hehe11:48
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man_in_shackreplacing it with something less annoying would be a help11:51
Stskeepsthe spooky hands one?11:51
man_in_shackand the noise11:52
* qwerty12_N810 votes for Benson's mod11:52
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man_in_shackmicroB is now just doing this "updating" thing11:56
man_in_shackdoesn't tell me much about what's going on11:56
qwerty12_N810as root: /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart11:56
* qwerty12_N810 wonders how hard it can be to bring back chinook's browser-ui - y'know, the one that didn't depend on a browser daemon12:00
lcukStskeeps, do you think theres a way to digitize qwerty12_N810 and add him as a default search engine on mer?12:00
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lcukqwerty12_N810 i agree with that, i think tear is the answer isnt it12:01
Stskeepslcuk: currently in progress to find a way to clone qwerty12_N810 in order to parrallelize him12:02
man_in_shacklcuk, when that happens, email me a pizza12:02
lcukso thats a task on this months sprint? :D12:02
man_in_shacknow installing tear 0.3.1 from garage12:03
man_in_shackwhat is the browser daemon for anyway?12:03
qwerty12_N810lcuk: yeah, I much prefer tear but tear does have with input and selecting tear can be a chore :)12:03
* lcuk resets his libliqbase repo12:04
lcukstatic text within pages, or text in textboxes?12:04
man_in_shackwow, no preferences window in tear? just a config table editor?12:05
qwerty12_N810lcuk: I've had trouble with both but at least in a textbox I can use shift and the arrow keys12:05
lcukman_in_shack, work in progress, if you think you know how to help, get involved12:05
man_in_shackwell, it seems usable enough so far12:06
man_in_shackbut i have a concern about not being able to find proxy settings12:07
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aquatixmorning all12:46
lcukmornin aquatix12:47
lcukbut i doubt its mornin for everyone12:47
aquatixit's always a morning somewhere12:49
aquatixhell, it's almost afternoon here already too12:49
lcukyeah, and every planet has northerners lol12:49
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aquatixlcuk: :)12:51
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thopiekarwho of you has twitter?13:33
lcuki do13:35
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thopiekarlcuk: I think I added you some mins before :)13:39
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thopiekarlcuk: who of the people here are good in packaging? As you may know I started a thread on talk. that someone could make me a static package of portaudio19 but I got now replies since I started the thread :|13:45
lcukthere is a debmaster - jeremiah, he is happy to discuss and take a look at stuff, but as with everything he can only offer guidance and you cant expect him to do it all for you :)13:46
lcuki have just been through the mill with packaging myself13:46
lcukthe best advice i can give is look around at other packages and find the simple common elements, and make use of things from similar packages13:47
lcukie if its a library, look at how other libs have been packaged13:47
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thopiekarthanks anyway13:48
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lcukwhere is the thread13:48
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lcuktheres a lot of threads there13:48
thopiekarI just tweeted about it..13:49
lcukwhat do you mean by a static package13:49
lcukcos, if its a porting project, does it already have a package13:50
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thopiekarportaudio needs a newer version of libasound.. so you have. as some people told me, to put the source of the newest libasound into the sourcefolder of portaudio19 and make it compiling it together with portaudio.. the goal of a static package is that you don't need the libs which where needed to build it..13:51
thopiekarin your case libasound13:52
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thopiekarI just uploaded a newer version of libasound months ago and it beaked others builds on extras-devel13:52
lcukso have you built a new version of libasound in your scratchbox?13:52
lcukthats technically ok, extras-devel is a breaking ground13:52
thopiekarbut I will need such a static package to build mixxx at the end13:53
lcukdoes it *NEED* the extra bits in asound13:53
lcukor is it simpler to downgrade mixxxx to not require the new version13:53
thopiekarthe problem isn't actually mixxx its portaudio19 which needs the newest package of libasound...13:54
lcukcos i thought asound had been static and unchanging for years13:54
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thopiekarI talked with the devs on #mixxx about my problem.. and about using portaudio v18 instead of v19.. but v19 is definitly needed for the scratching effects and s.o.13:55
lcukthats a kicker13:56
* thopiekar successfully uploaded portaudio18.. but it's useless as you can see :|13:56
thopiekarI really hope that someone will reply on my thread while being able to make the package for me..13:57
lcukthats really not a simple problem to solve13:57
thopiekarhmm :|13:58
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lcukit involves porting and handling libasound and portaudio and then mixxx13:58
lcukwhat broke in extras-devel when you sent new asound through13:58
* thopiekar is now taking a look on the source folders of portaudio and libasound to find a way to get the sources together..13:59
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Jaffaqwerty12_N810: ping14:06
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: pong14:06
Jaffaqwerty12_N810: Just saw your Tear patch; I don't know what Tear's code style is, but if I saw a dev do "if(thumb_option==true)" rather than "if (thumb_option)" they'd get a pounding ;-)14:06
JaffaIt's a short hop from there to "if(thumb_option==true) { return true; } else { return false; }" ;-)14:07
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: good point, I usually do that when using gbooleans...14:07
qwerty12_N810Thanks, I'll change it now14:07
pupnik<Harekiet> wtf there's 244 people in the dosbox facebook group14:08
pupnik<MiniMax> Kill them all.14:08
lcukjaffa, at least it wasnt if(!no_thumb_option)14:08
Jaffalcuk: true!14:08
pupnik<Harekiet> yeh!14:08
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lcukhas facebook taken over hte world then14:10
lcukcos i just foundout my hosts file contains "" :D14:10
thopiekarfor what is .PHONY: needed in [debian|rules]?14:10
Jaffathopiekar: It's a make-ism14:11
thopiekarthanks Jaffa14:12
javispedroeveryday more and more references to libicd-network-wpa appear14:16
javispedroguess i'll have to write a readme and release it14:16
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javispedroi'm such a lazy man :)14:16
amrhm, i reckon its time to install desktop linux again14:17
Stskeepshow do you deal with the custom .ko btw?14:17
amrill get looking for a nice distro later - i assume ubuntu is still the cuddly friendly one?14:18
qwerty12_N810No, that's Gentoo14:18
amrgentoo is now cuddly? :P14:18
javispedroi've replaced it on the initfs by remouting rw and that's about it14:18
thopiekarto link the build of my package to another, here newer, version of libasound I should set --enable-static and something like "--with-alsadir ./alsa-lib/xxx" but I can't find such a option :|14:19
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Stskeepscuddly like cuddling with barbwire14:19
javispedrothopiekar: won't a newer libasound require a newer alsa?14:20
qwerty12_N810amr: sure! Having to compile everything is very cuddly :P14:21
pupnikht helps heat your room...14:21
thopiekar:O I will just build the sources of libasound and use them directly to build portaudio19..14:21
thopiekarso I have to put the sources into the sourcefolder of portaudio19...14:22
amrdidn't they do away with compiling the BIG things?14:22
thopiekarI'm actually working on it but I don't think I will get a working debain-sourcefolder :|14:22
amrwell, on install14:22
qwerty12_N810javispedro: does your cx3110x play nice with the standard icd2 modules? :)14:23
javispedrostskeeps: ah, wre you asking about the patched .ko not working with standard icd?14:23
javispedrogood timing14:23
javispedroyes it does14:24
javispedroi fixed that by borking wpa-supplicant14:24
qwerty12_N810Brilliant, thank you. I may be in a situation where I may be needing the support soon :)14:24
javispedroso now both cxwhatever.ko and wpa_supplicant are borked14:24
javispedrobut they happily talk14:24
Stskeepsjavispedro: interesting - i wonder what we broke on mer source that causes it to not work with normal ICD14:25
javispedroicd/wlancond seems to violate iwext14:25
javispedroi remember something about icd expecting a string with "bssid:mac" but but iwext defining only "bssid"14:26
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pupnikim thinking for emus, better mouse control might be using screen as a touchpad, and "-" button for left-click and "+" buttpn for right click14:27
javispedroit's been four months since I coded that already?14:27
javispedroman, time goes fast14:27
pupnikqwerty12_N810, did you post gvdown yet?14:29
pupniki havent tried your patch yet.14:29
qwerty12_N810pupnik: nah, I was sleepy: it was a quick job :)14:30
pupnikgrabbing documentaries from google video is fun14:30
javispedropupnik: i dislike that. if you're thinking dosbox & windows, there was a mouse.drv specially designed for tablets... can't find it now though14:30
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qwerty12_N810I only happened to realise later that I could reparent and destroy the menubar rather than the menu widgets individually...14:30
javispedroag. is there a shortcut to switch languages for the n810 hw keyboard autocompleter?14:30
pupnikwhhhhh javispedro -- some dos games use relative motion - no way to use exact coords afaik14:31
qwerty12_N810javispedro: ctrl+chr14:31
javispedroa banner just appearead with (in spanish) "font face changed"14:32
javispedrobut that did it, qwerty1214:32
thopiekarisn't $(MAKE) -C /dir_xy the folder where the compiled files will be moved in?14:34
qwerty12_N810Says: "Input language switched" here :P14:34
javispedro"messy translations"14:35
qwerty12_N810thopiekar: no; that runs make in that folder - the equivalent to cd'ing there and running make14:35
thopiekaraaah ok so the compiled files will be in the working folder?14:35
thopiekarso the other way around as I thought before, right?14:36
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javispedroi switched the autocompleter too late14:41
javispedronow my spanish dictionary is nearly useless lol14:41
javispedroluckily I know which file to delete14:41
Stskeepsjavispedro: what other stuff were you involved with btw?14:42
javispedrotrolling some other english-speaking boards and such :)14:42
javispedrooh, you mean "serious stuff"? just libicd-network-wpa, openttd & dosbox14:43
Stskeepsah, but openttd is useful too ;)14:43
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Stskeepsjust pondering if you ever considered giving a hand with Mer, you seem to have enough drive even for insane feats (libicd-network-wpa), so :P14:44
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thopiekarwhould the cd'ing where work?14:45
thopiekaralsa_configure: cd ./alsa-lib14:45
thopiekaralsa_configure-stamp $(alsa_configure_biarch_stamp)14:45
Stskeepsright, scared one person away14:45
Macerheh. i am still a little amazed about enron14:45
Macerthat was an awesome movie14:46
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Mer? The horror! :P14:46
thopiekaror do I have to put into $(xy)?14:46
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Macerit was like a mafia movie. they always end bad14:46
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: at least it wasn't deblet14:46
Stskeepsooh, thumb scrollbar14:47
* Stskeeps hugs qwerty12_N810 14:47
qwerty12_N810Yeah, that Cheese picture with your Marlboro :p14:47
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Stskeepswb javispedro14:47
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javispedrothis is the problem with wi-fi...14:47
Stskeepsjavispedro: just pondering if you ever considered giving a hand with Mer, you seem to have enough drive even for insane feats (libicd-network-wpa), so :P14:47
javispedrolibicd-network-wpa code is pretty insane indeed :P14:48
javispedroeither way i'd prefer to get the "diablo community SSU" first14:49
Stskeepsbut i think time has shown noone is willing to do it on their own accord really14:49
Stskeepsit's a massive undertaking14:50
javispedroi'm not thinking That big14:50
Stskeepswell, i'm thinking that it's not something you'd "just" do in your free time :)14:50
javispedrojust congregating most already existing bugfixes into a nice flashable image14:51
Stskeepsit's not replacing everything in diablo, but still a lot of logistics14:51
Stskeepsand even "nice flashable image" is hell - i've paved some of the way for it through Mer already14:51
Stskeepswe have an agreement we can basically distribute nokia sw through to nokia tablet users, which is a huge one14:51
Stskeepsso we'll see where it leads14:52
thopiekaris there a place where to get working debian-sourcefolders? I just noticed now that mine isn't working..14:53
thopiekarthis one is from ubuntu.. [apt-get source]14:54
lcukwhere would i look if i wanted to put a global key hook14:55
qwerty12_N810I added one once by modifying hildon-desktop...14:56
lcukso that if i were running any app icould just press a key and have my app monitor/react14:56
lcuk:) thanks qwerty14:56
qwerty12_N810It has one to bring up the global search so I added another one to run another program14:57
* thopiekar is now looking at
javispedromy next "objective" is #325014:57
lcukqwerty12_N810, global search?14:57
javispedrobut initial exploration reveals it may be even harder that pap :(14:57
qwerty12_N810lcuk: yeah, the built in search prog. it comes with - 'tis referred to as osso-global-search14:58
lcukive never encountered it lol14:58
lcuki recall a desktop widget for searching14:58
MacerStskeeps: make mer use an opensolaris kernel :)14:58
Macerthen it would be awesome14:59
StskeepsMacer: i would still love opensolaris on a sheevaplug or on a openrd client..14:59
thopiekarok the package from is working..15:02
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Stskeepsthopiekar: so what are you blowing up these days?15:03
thopiekara static package of portaudio19! I'm working now on myself on it, because nobody on wants to make that package for me..15:04
javispedroand I am still thinking... won't you need a newer in-kernel alsa if you're using a newer libasound?15:04
thopiekarjust trying to get it working..15:05
qwerty12_N810Considering that Maemo's libasound is quite modified (dumbed-down TBH), will you be able to even hear sound with your newer build? :P15:05
javispedrobtw does alsa work on maemo? i though all mixing was done through "optimized" esd.15:06
javispedroafaik the default sdl sound driver is esd for a reason (i dont' know which reason, so don' ask :P)15:07
thopiekarno.. I even uploaded one months ago and it breaked builds on extras... now I want to include the libs into the sourcefolder of portaudio19.. so it will build the newest alsa-libs and use them to build portaudio1915:07
oespirit_javispedro: is maemo esound different from upstream ?15:07
qwerty12_N810javispedro: esd is built with --disable-alsa --enable-dsp afaik...15:07
thopiekarfinally it will build portaudio19 staticly, so the libs will be not needed anymore15:07
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javispedrooespirit_: already answered, i guess :)15:10
thopiekarhow do I know where dpkg-buildpackage starts with? always with clean: ?15:10
javispedroyou mean, which debian/rules rule?15:11
oespirit_javispedro: yup. thank god for no source changes from upstream in this one15:13
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javispedroi somehow find hard to believe the upstream esd has a configure option for "--enable-using-omap-dsp-tasks-for-mixing"15:15
Stskeepsjavispedro: asound does..15:15
Stskeepsi think15:15
Stskeepseither way, there's one of them that has the maemo dsp stuff15:15
thopiekarsounds a little bit funny xD , javispedro15:15
thopiekara very short option for sure :P15:16
javispedroi don't really know maybe there is a standard "dsp api" and esd just supports that15:16
javispedrothopiekar: sorry for not answering, though the answer was in dpkg-buildpackage man page but is not15:18
thopiekarso? isn't jeremiah here?15:18
thopiekarjeremiah: PING15:18
qwerty12_N810It's Sunday: he's not obligated to work ;P15:19
thopiekarhehe working for a community like ours there is no weekend just 24/7 working :D15:19
javispedroout to lunch (dont know the polite way to say that in irc :p)15:20
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thopiekarWho wants to bet with me that javispedros leaving is cause his wifi?15:21
thopiekarso does someone know where dpkg-buildpackage usually starts in rules?15:26
Jaffathopiekar: is the smallest I've had work15:26
thopiekarso the order is.. clean compile and install?15:27
thopiekarsome rules files are using "build: " are they used to do the same like compile: ?15:28
JaffaBeyond my knowledge now :-/15:29
thopiekarwhat about putting in commands like cd /some/dir/?15:32
thopiekarjust writing it in as in the terminal15:33
thopiekarand where is the difference between "$(command)" and "command"15:33
Jaffathopiekar: "$(command)" runs a command and returns its output; command just runs the command.15:34
JaffaThere are some really good Makefile tutorials out there, FWIW15:34
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thopiekarwhat do you mean with FWIW? :P15:34
lcukfor what its worth15:35
* lcuk smiles15:35
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lcukhopefully i just removed a bug15:35
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thopiekargot this rules in my editor.. and it doesn't want to clean alsa by alsa_clean..15:41
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* thopiekar got a new idea..15:42
qwerty12_N810I'd be pretty confused too if I just concatenated one rules file onto another :)15:43
thopiekarnah better nod :D15:43
thopiekarhehe thats why i added to libasounds commands the prefix alsa_15:44
thopiekarIf I would execute in ./alsa-lib just ./configure and make it would place the libs into src where the sources are, right?15:46
RST38hdeb packaging system looks like a major fuckup...15:46
qwerty12_N810RST38h: No, that's CDBS :)15:47
RST38hhow do they package using this at all? by copying and pasting from other debs?15:47
thopiekarit would be better as getting to rules-files together.. isn't it qwerty12_N810?15:47
RST38hqwerty: horror.15:47
thopiekarRST38h: this stupid rules-file is my work xD15:48
thopiekarjust want to get a static portaudio19 package...15:48
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* RST38h has yet to see a straight rules-file though15:50
thopiekarqwerty12_N810: what do you think?15:50
qwerty12_N810thopiekar: dunno, it's been a long while since i compiled multiple builds from one rules15:51
thopiekarlibs are called *.o, right?15:52
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: strings successfully included15:54
Stskeeps(they're in Devel now if you want them)15:55
timeless_mbpi was just going to ask :)15:55
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javispedroi can't get the tablet's XChat to remember my nickserv password15:56
javispedroit seems to send an "invalid password"15:57
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: if you're interested in doing en_US string set for osso-xterm you're also more than welcome15:57
timeless_mbpdidn't i?15:57
timeless_mbpdid you check diablo-extras-devel?15:57
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: there was no localization in osso-xterm in diablo, and i can't find it :P15:59
Stskeeps(something new)15:59
timeless_mbpwell, it's in my translated pool here :)15:59
timeless_mbpit's possible i never pushed15:59
Stskeepsdid you read my idea about double-dependancy?16:00
Stskeepsadmittedly this means that a language pack doesn't follow the applications installed16:01
timeless_mbpit seems my xterm deb is unhappy16:02
Stskeepsbasically that we have language-pack-enus, which depends on maemo-af-desktop-l10n-enus1, etc   -- and maemo-af-desktop-l10n-enus1 depends on language-pack-en-us16:03
Stskeepsenus, that is16:03
Stskeepsthat'd make it uninstallable16:04
Stskeeps(afaik such double-dependancy is possible)16:06
* timeless_mbp ponders16:06
timeless_mbpso, my system now has an osso xterm mo file16:07
timeless_mbp*but*, xterm isn't picking it up?16:07
timeless_mbpum, why can't i install screen?16:08
Stskeepswhat error are you getting?16:08
timeless_mbpi suppose disabling the ubuntu repo didn't help :)16:09
Stskeepsfor crying out loud.. ok, i know why it isn't applying the strings16:10
Stskeepsbecause there's a nice N_ in front of it which means it doesn't try to gettext it16:13
timeless_mbpthat's probably some other macro16:16
* Stskeeps grabs later osso-xterm16:17
timeless_mbpbtw, backspace isn't working in screen16:18
Stskeepspotentially a libvte issue16:19
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thopiekarwhy isn't it working?
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javispedroi suggest you take a look at the gnu make manual16:23
javispedroyou can't iinvoke make rules that way16:23
javispedroeither do $(MAKE) rule16:24
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javispedroor put it as a dependency16:24
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javispedro(aka after the : in rule definition)16:24
timeless_mbpStskeeps: i can't figure out how to get sources for osso-xterm16:25
timeless_mbpi added deb-src for things and apt-get update'd16:25
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: yeah, we don't have deb-src at the moment due to a bug in OBS. i've just upgraded osso-xterm to latest tag as well16:26
Stskeepsthat should help things a bit16:26
timeless_mbpcan you give me a url for sources so i could just read them?16:26
timeless_mbpis it garage hosted?16:26
JaffaAnyone know if Cairo is going to be gfx-accelerated on Maemo 5 devices?16:26
timeless_mbpi don't think so16:27
JaffaJust Clutter. Damn.16:27
lcukcairo renders onto gtk doesnt it16:27
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: yeah, projects/osso-xterm16:27
lcuktheres still technically a chance16:27
Jaffalcuk: Gtk renders using Cairo would be more accurate AIUI16:27
Stskeepsgo for tags, not trunk16:27
timeless_mbpin that version, it definitely uses _ in places16:28
lcukjaffa, lol yeah i meant cairo targets gtk surfaces, and is called and used from within gtk apps :P16:28
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: that version is 18 months old :P16:29
timeless_mbpStskeeps: yeah, but well, sources are sources16:29
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: if this build goes through we should have pannable area osso-xterm16:29
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qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: hehe, that sounds awesome :)16:29
javispedrowith copy&paste?16:30
Stskeepsno clue16:30
Stskeepswe'll see how it works16:30
Stskeepsif anything, hardcore nerds can use screen for copy-paste :P16:31
javispedrothat wont copy to the X clipboard afaik16:31
thopiekarjavispedro: but why can't it find 'alsa_dep: '?16:31
javispedrothopiekar: because that is a make rule. you can invoke that as a "command"16:32
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javispedrocan -> cannot (autocomplete failed)16:32
thopiekarbut why are there commands like "build-xy" in "build: "'s?16:33
timeless_mbpthose are dh_RANDOMCRAP16:34
timeless_mbpand those are actually things in $PATH16:34
timeless_mbptry: which dh_strip16:34
timeless_mbpsee? it's a command16:35
thopiekarso how can I make the rules file executing everything in "alsa_dep: "?16:36
javispedrotold you16:36
javispedrouse $(MAKE) alsa_dep16:36
javispedroor put alsa_dep as a dependency16:36
javispedro(after the : in the rule definition)16:37
javispedrolike this: "clean: alsa_dep"16:37
thopiekaraah! ok got it now.. :P16:37
thopiekarwill try it out now16:38
javispedrodo you think I can replace my debian chroot with mer and still use it like a chroot?16:39
javispedrocan I easily install latest ubuntu gcc for example?16:39
javispedroor will it broke like maemo?16:39
timeless_mbpStskeeps: ok, my file is checked16:41
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javispedromaybe I should just clone diablo to sd and use that as my dev chroot16:45
javispedroforget that.. debian's the only one still packaging antlr116:50
timeless_mbpStskeeps: ok, afaict, there aren't any po's packaged/available for osso-xterm16:52
timeless_mbpwhich version of it am i translating?16:52
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Razumihinhmm... how do i connect my bt headphones to maemo :P16:52
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Razumihini have paired them but hf does not automatically connect and i cannot find connect option anywhere.16:53
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susanI want to make my result the recognize function  has recognized displayed on a button label,how should i do?16:55
Razumihinok. i found it under edit bluetooth device dialog :)16:55
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: mh22, i'm building it right now16:56
susanNow,it doesn't display normally16:57
susanis there anybody knowing anything about it ?16:57
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: 0.14mh22 that is16:57
susanany idea?16:58
timeless_mbphrm, wtf?16:59
man_in_shacki should probably get another microsd to screw around with16:59
man_in_shackcloned diablo to sd would be useful, i guess16:59
timeless_mbpdid they actually try to use identifiers?16:59
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: seems like they use fremantle menus now17:01
GAN800Pavlov, not when the general purpose CPU is so underpowered compared to the competition. I mean, you DO like to browse the web and whatnot, right? Well, Tegra's beefed up GPU aint gonna help you there.17:01
Stskeepsseems Mer actually -works- with Fremantle menus, that's nice17:01
man_in_shackum, is that screenshot of what you wanted?17:02
timeless_mbpman_in_shack: oddly, yes17:02
timeless_mbpStskeeps: stupid question...17:02
timeless_mbphow do you get to "settings"?17:03
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i'm not sure there's any17:03
timeless_mbpStskeeps: click the red x to the right of pgdn?17:03
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: fullscreen17:03
man_in_shacksleep time for me17:03
timeless_mbpStskeeps: of course!17:03
timeless_mbpwhy didn't i think of that....17:03
timeless_mbpwhat part of the document icon gave that away? :)17:04
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: gconf-editor :P17:04
javispedrono hard fullscreen button? yet another thing I prefer I didn't know lol17:04
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: fremantle icons are (C) NOKIA CONFIDENTIAL or something :P17:04
timeless_mbpStskeeps: that's because we don't know what they'll be yet :)17:04
timeless_mbpconfidential: no one knows17:04
Stskeepsmore like the SDK icons are closed too17:04
timeless_mbpactually, that falls under "secret"17:04
Stskeepshence our pervasive lack of icons17:05
timeless_mbpthe red x is gtk's "no icon available"17:05
ShadowJKis the number of missing icons smaller or bigger than the number of people on the icon making team?17:06
timeless_mbpi've missed the icon team :)17:06
StskeepsShadowJK: you mean wazd? :P17:06
timeless_mbpor rather "I must have missed the icon team"17:07
* ShadowJK has been reading dilbert archives and assumed there'd be 15 people trying to make 3 icons17:07
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StskeepsShadowJK: in open source there's usually very few artists and those who are good are rare17:07
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Stskeepsoh this is curious17:08
ShadowJKStskeeps, why I assumed Nokia would have bribed someone to do icons for fremantle17:09
Stskeepshildon menu is context sensitive - if i have something marked, "Copy" showed up17:09
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javispedrothat's on the ui guidelines afaik17:09
timeless_mbpyes, but where's select all? :)17:09
javispedro"disabled options must be hidden"17:10
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: breaking your finger on the device screen17:10
timeless_mbpif you copy something, you should see paste the next time you try the menu17:10
javispedroor something like that17:10
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javispedrorepeteadly smashing the device screen is the official gesture for closing hung application then? ;)17:12
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timeless_mbpno, there's a power key17:13
timeless_mbpand it has an end task item17:13
timeless_mbpwhether it works is ...17:13
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ShadowJKas long as the right parts of X, GTK/GQ, etc aren't paged out, I guess17:13
javispedroor if the current application has an active X grab/menu opened17:15
javispedroaka most cause of "my Linux is frozen help!"17:15
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javispedro today's made me laugh too17:21
ShadowJKif I turn off javascript in firefox, becomes fast for real :-)17:22
ShadowJKthose ads :/17:23
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Stskeeps <- pretty good engineering if the building didn't fall into pieces at all..17:26
RST38hHmm... iPhone 3GS costs $179 to make17:27
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timeless_mbpit fell as a whole, sideways?17:28
RST38hSts: I have seen a few folks discuss these photos. Their suggestion was that the building is made of concrete poured onto metal frame17:28
RST38hSts: So, naturally, it would be rather difficult to break apart on its own17:29
javispedrobig photos... tablet slowing... browserd going to crash... i can already feel it17:30
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RST38hjavis: use desktop pc instead? =)17:30
ShadowJKit's strange how after it has loaded an image, but is still displaying it, you suddenly have 14 megs free. Like as if it made 5 copies in ram of the image before displaying it or something :/17:31
RST38hHTML DOM sucks.17:32
ShadowJKbrowserd never/rarely crashed for me loading big images17:32
lcukyou aren't trying hard enough17:33
ShadowJKhowever, the watchdog likes to reset the device after awhile :)17:33
RST38hnever hit the watchdog over here17:33
RST38hstrange, but true17:34
ShadowJKI disabled it with the flasher once I figured out you could do that17:34
ShadowJKNow when accidentally opening a larger image I'll just put the tablet down and wait an hour for it to recover from swapping :-)17:35
ShadowJKwhereas before it'd reboot after a minute or so17:35
javispedroit seems like if browserd was reniced  -1 or something17:35
* ShadowJK isn't sure which one is better17:35
qwerty12_N810/var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_restarts: /usr/bin/metalayer-crawler -F :  34 :(17:35
ShadowJKnah it isn't17:35
thopiekarwhy isn't it possible to cd into another folder in [debian|rules]?17:35
ShadowJKBut swapping to SD is so damn slow17:35
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: we should get Luke-Jr to make a free version of FTD..17:35
javispedrono swap17:36
ShadowJKjavispedro, you can't cheat like that, it still swaps :-)17:36
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: we should :P17:36
thopiekarI switched to ./alsa-lib, followed by some commands17:36
ShadowJKthough only mapped pages17:36
ShadowJKit can't swap anonymous pages17:36
thopiekarbut it isn't executing them there..17:36
javispedroof course17:36
qwerty12_N810thopiekar: run commands on the same line like: cd whatever && make etc17:37
javispedrobut e.g. tear hangs itself but does not hang hildon-desktop17:37
thopiekaraah k17:37
thopiekarwill try that out :P17:37
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javispedrowow forget that the whole tablet froze for 10 seconds17:38
ShadowJKYeah I've noticed differences between tear and browserd too.. tear eats more memory, but its access pattern seems friendlier and doesn't cause huge latencies for other programs to get their pages back17:38
javispedrothat page is horrible17:38
javispedromultiple flash objects17:38
javispedrohuge images17:39
ShadowJKeh isn't it normal to have a half-minute freeze if for some inexplicable reason flash is enabled and you browse to a site with flash? :-)17:39
thopiekarwhere is the difference between -rm -f and rm -f?17:39
qwerty12_N810rm -f doesn't need - as it always returns true...17:40
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thopiekarthanks qwerty12_N81017:40
ShadowJKtear seems to be extremely fast on many pages, and extremely slow on some pages :/17:41
javispedroShadowJK: i noticed that17:41
ShadowJKbrowserd seems to be more consistent between pages17:41
amris it just me or is pulling the side things in on fennec too easy?17:42
amrwhen i was playing with it i was doing it by accident all the time17:42
ShadowJKtoo easy? I couldn't figure out how17:42
lcukgestures on a screen with multipurposes are evil17:43
lcukand counter intruitive17:43
amrno kinetic scrolling seems to come close to how smooth liqbase is17:45
Stskeepsfennec on fremantle: you need 12 fingers to operate this machinery, please evolve17:45
javispedrorequiring a thousand gestures for "back" is17:45
ShadowJKfennec on PC seemed nice enough.. like, the "Back" button is instant. Hope they port that to firefox :-)17:45
lcuk1 single global button in liqbase - bottom left "back"17:46
ShadowJKbut on tablet I still prefer browserd and tear17:46
amrim just using the standard browser17:46
amrgets the job done17:46
lcukagreed, its a bit sluggish, but it works17:46
javispedroamr: me too. save for "new web 2.0" slashdot.17:46
amroh i read about that, isn't it stupidly javascript heavy?17:47
javispedrofrom now on, "slowdot"17:47
lcukslashnot ;)17:47
lcukit times out my desktop pc at work17:47
ShadowJKwell, slashdot is slow on my quad-core computer too...17:47
amrthankfully i dont read slashdot17:48
* lcuk does often17:48
lcuktho not at work17:48
lcukunless compiling17:48
lcuki like the continous front page now17:48
javispedroi don't17:49
javispedroit still confuses the heck out me17:49
amrright, back to unpacking17:49
javispedrodid that sentence make any sense?17:49
amrcoming home from uni is a pain in the arse17:49
lcukthis was the first place i saw that effect17:49
lcukand it works better there than slash17:49
amroh thats kinda smart17:49
lcukyeah, the site content isnt too bad either :)17:50
javispedroim looking for a specific headline, scroll bottom, and, since there are no more headlines, click yesterday17:50
javispedrobut guess wait? the headline i'm looking for is not there either!17:51
lcukyesterday/today/tomorrow is always confusing because it uses us timezones17:51
lcukso having a continuous scroll is worthwhile17:51
lcuki dont like the jump when you click the text17:51
lcukim a constant random clicker (not on links)17:51
Macerwhy don't people just give up on spam17:51
lcukcos its neutricious and nice17:51
Maceri mean cmon.. buy cheap rx drugs... watches...?17:52
javispedrolcuk: makes finger scrolling in the tablet next to impossible17:52
Maceryour lost nigerian uncle millionaire who left you money17:52
lcukjavispedro, thats a point yeah it would17:52
lcukMacer, you have one too?17:52
Macerlcuk: haha17:52
Macerwell. i just noticed my gmail acct had like 1200 spams17:52
lcukheh is that all :D17:53
Macerand they are all so obviously stupid...17:53
lcukthats why they are in spam17:53
lcukgmail is v good17:53
Maceri'm suprised they don't have a show dedicated to going through the spam process to see what becomes of it :)17:53
lcukmy spam has approx 10000 at any one time17:53
Macerlike answering the call from the nigerian uncle... buying the rx drugs.. etc17:53
Maceryeah. gmail actually blocks a huge chunk of them17:54
lcukdepending on whos joe jobbed me at different times it rises up over 20-30k sometimes17:54
amri wonder if vodafone will let me upgrade my handset to an android phone17:54
Macerjoe jobbd? :)17:54
lcuktheres a club in santa dominica called "the liquid lounge" or something, they decided to send out a "bulk marketing mail" to probably more people than the entire country17:55
lcukmy spam folder shot up to over 60k17:55
lcukcos hotmail bounced pretty much every one of them back17:56
Maceri guess anybody will do anything for something huh?17:56
lcukyeah lol17:56
Macerwhat a waste of life :)17:56
lcuki get the strangest real mails too17:56
Macerthe nigerian uncle one was great though17:57
Maceri got a kick out of that one.. they put a lot of work behind the story :)17:57
lcukmeant to be sent to [someone].liquid@gmail    people just copy and paste, and editors stop at the .17:57
lcukDear Netashia17:58
lcukThank you to give me the opportunity to send you my cv lm looking forwad to your positive respond17:58
lcukwhy have you sent me your cv?17:58
lcukThank you to give me the opportunity to send you my cv lm looking forwad to your positive respond17:58
lcukSince you did not listen the first time.17:58
lcukwhat a great CV.17:58
lcukYou can have the job.17:58
lcukCome to my office in Manchester, England by 9am on Monday morning and work for me.17:58
lcukHow much do you expect to be paid per day?17:58
Maceryou didn't :)17:59
lcukim expecting them to start in the morning!17:59
lcukcommute will be long though, hes from south africa17:59
Macerthat's just cold blooded man17:59
Macerwhat if someone actually went? :)17:59
javispedrodid she have any experience in computing?17:59
Macerit's ok. they can call their nigerian uncle to send them some cash to get back17:59
lcukzulu actually18:00
lcukwith no criminal record18:00
javispedrofirst employee of the month in "liquid enterprises" then I guess ;)18:00
Maceranybody that puts "no criminal record" on a cv :)18:01
Macershould never get the job haha18:01
lcuki guess you need to depending on location18:01
lcuki wouldnt mark someone down if they did that18:01
lcukespecially if they came from a high crime area18:01
lcukslightly different expectations and stuff18:02
Macerlol i would throw it in the garbage18:02
lcukhes only one person tho, i get regular cvs18:02
Macergood news! i was never arrested!18:02
Macerhaha.. isn't that just something you're supposed to do? :) i'm sure a small criminal background check would dig anything up rather quickly18:02
lcukand normally they understand and find the correct address, i dont want them wasting their time18:02
Maceralthough i've seen some people make it through the cracks.18:02
Macerour company hired a child predator18:03
Macerlater on someone was going through the registry just joking around putting people's names in18:03
Macerand his name popped up for real!18:03
lcuk:S depends if the job was catching children18:03
Macerlol... he was a child sexual predator18:03
Macerwho fled to IL and didn't register as an offender18:03
lcukthen not good at all18:03
Macerwent to jail :)18:03
lcukshould have certain bodily organs removed if you ask me18:04
Macerthe idiot went to change his car registration18:04
lcuklike liver, heart...18:04
Macerfrom KY to IL and got red flagged haha18:04
Macerleft the state without letting them know... then didn't register in IL :)18:04
Macersorry bastard.. we took copies of his pervert file and posted it all over the place18:05
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lcukyou would get flagged, but if you serve your time and you dont try to work anywhere requiring background checks people should be able to work18:05
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lcuktechnically you shouldnt be doing that either i dont think18:05
Macerlcuk: screw that. i don't want a registered pervert18:05
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Macerespecially someone with access to information like.. what hours you work.. how many children you have.. etc18:06
lcukthen your job needs correct background checks18:06
lcuki agree18:06
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Maceri will give a break to say.. the guy who had sex with a 16 yr old when he was 17 or 1818:06
lcukyou wouldnt get past the first red flag on the db18:07
Macerbut not the 30something yr old who was "sexual abuse of a child less than 14 years of age"18:07
lcuk5 years after the fact it doesnt matter why18:07
Macerthe entire life it doesn't matter why18:07
lcuki dont think its disclosed about severity18:07
Macerlcuk: it is to some extent18:07
Macerthe registry will tell you if someone abused a child under a certain age18:07
Maceror if they are a "sexual predator"18:07
lcukpeople over here have been put on the sexual offenders registry for shagging innanimate objects18:08
Macerwhich means they prey on abusing children or their crime was as such18:08
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Macereither way it goes. i would always refuse to hire someone that is on the registry18:08
Macerthey can go to hell for all i care. which is where they will wind up :)18:09
Macersome states invoke the death penalty for raping children18:09
lcukthat guy who had a purely loving relationship with his bike in the privacy of his living room will never have a decent job again18:09
Stskeepshow about a 16yo going into sex offender registry for having sex with his 16yo gf?18:09
MacerStskeeps: lol18:10
lcukMacer, totally agree18:10
Maceris that possible?18:10
StskeepsMacer: according to us news it is18:10
Macerwtf? :)18:10
thopiekarif I uninstall libasound-dev on my home pc and try to build portaudio which would need it and I would build.. this would mean that my static package would work, right?18:10
lcuksomeone was mentioning for crime purposes it shouldnt be the age of the perps, but the age difference18:10
Macerdid he rape her?18:10
lcuktechnically yes18:11
GAN800How about the 16yo girl who sent naked pictures of herself to her 16yo boyfriend.18:11
* thopiekar can't wait trying his new package this way out18:11
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GAN800She's a sex offender.18:11
Stskeepsthank god for sane danish age of consent18:11
lcukMacer, a flag on a database does not indicate the severity of the crime18:12
Macerlcuk: it depends on teh crime18:12
GAN800Macer, the shit you can do to get on that list is . . . frightening.18:12
Maceri will be back in a few18:12
Macerand show you a registry that shows certain aspects of disgustingness18:12
GAN800Taking a piss in public within half a mile of a school at any time of dat?18:12
lcukmacer, you are on the register or you are not18:12
infobotGAN800 meant: Taking a piss in public within half a mile of a school at any time of day?18:13
GAN800Macer, absolutism is rarely useful.18:13
javispedronow that impressed me, infobot18:13
lcukwhat if you are stood just outside the 1/2 mile radius but the wind blows?18:13
infobotjavispedro meant: s/$RANDOM_BOT/$RANDOM_BOT18:13
lcukyou need to learn regex18:14
javispedroI seriously do :( lol18:14
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xnt14[laptop]~seen b-man1618:14
infobotb-man16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11h 22m 18s ago, saying: 'i think that it requires enabling some functions in the kernel'.18:14
javispedrowait. I do know regex. i just do not know sed or awk or whatever syntax that is18:14
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thopiekarnobody on #alsa is replying soo.. do you know where to set up LDFLAGS="-Lalsa-lib/xy".. there is a include folder in alsa-lib...18:16
thopiekaris this the right folder..18:16
thopiekarI just think so, but not sure..18:17
javispedrodoes it contain libasound.a18:17
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: have you had success using dummy_umac to build diablo's cx3110x? tried it y/day and I couldn't get it to work... thinking of using Mamona's patch to take the symbols from umac.ko18:17
infobotjavispedro meant: does it contain libasound.a?18:17
thopiekarjavispedro: no just asoundlib.h18:18
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: i thought thats what we're doing18:20
javispedrothopiekar: did you put LDFLAGS="BLABLA" before ./configure in debian/rules18:20
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thopiekarwhich ./configure? the one of portaudio19 or alsa-lib?18:21
javispedrothe one which should use that LDFLAGS which I assume is portaudio18:21
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: give me the url of the en .po file you want translated :)18:21
thopiekaryes I do18:22
thopiekarbut I think I have to remove the installed package libasound-dev from my pc18:23
javispedrobut there's no libasound.a file there.. did the asound build finish?18:23
lcukthopiekar, you are really confusing matters by just trying to merge all 318:23
lcukwhatever you do now it wont get past autobuilder18:24
lcukyou said you have built the newer asound18:24
lcukand that it is in -devel18:24
lcukas a packaged up simple normal thing18:25
javispedrowha? there's now a newer libasound in extras-devel?18:25
javispedrofree device bricking for everyone interested!18:25
qwerty12_N810javispedro: believe me, that was the case for a while =)18:26
lcukif you just want it working on your personal device, best is to just build packages directly within each project, and use dpkg -i to install in places18:26
lcukusing scratchbox and clean source18:27
lcukthen copy them over18:27
javispedrobut but but but won't installing that probably instatly mute the device?18:27
javispedroor did he build that from maemo sources?18:27
lcukthopiekar is a pro18:27
thopiekarnot really..18:28
lcukand its a lesson if thats the case18:28
lcukat least he will know its not possible lol18:28
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javispedrowho wants to try on his n8x0 and get a free reflash as first prize?18:29
thopiekarbut I already have upload a newer one.. and jeremiah contacted me after a month with the result of removing it from -devel18:29
lcukthopiekar, really the best way to get it working is to break your problem into smaller chunks and get over each step.  this merging you are attempting is like human surgery using a butter knife and UHU glue18:29
lcukdont upload it18:29
lcukjust copy the package to your device18:30
thopiekar:P never again..18:30
lcukupload only when you are ready to show others18:30
javispedroah, so it was removed18:31
thopiekarjavispedro: yes that why you can find a broken package of portaudio19 in -devel..18:31
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thopiekar:P this was mine.. compiled with the newer version of asound..18:33
thopiekarjust wanna replace it with a static one..18:33
javispedrobut the newer version of libasound didn't work18:33
javispedroit's not going to work either if it's statically linked18:34
Macerthey have a kde pkg for opensolaris18:34
Maceri need to seriously get rid of gnome :)18:34
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Macerit is driving me nuts18:34
thopiekarsure? portaudio should work fine.. said Math, a user of #mixxx..18:34
RST38hMacer: And what are you going to use instead? =)18:36
RST38hIs it better? =)~18:36
Macerit is prettier18:36
* RST38h always thought KDE was very successful in emulating Windows18:37
Macerit is18:37
RST38hTOO successful, I mean :)18:37
Macerit is like the vista that doesn't suck18:37
Maceri know18:37
Maceri always figured there were coders in the ms basement pumping it out18:37
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RST38hDunno, I found KDE too heavy and imposing18:37
Macerscrew the man.. we are going to make windows our way!18:37
RST38hGnome did not feel like anything though, so I went with Gnome18:37
Macerand imposing? :)18:38
Macergnome is like symbian18:38
Maceri suppose yeah it works.. but it is stuck in the past with its looks and feels18:38
javispedroyet again i got  off18:38
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Maceri mean if i was stuck with an sx25 still i'd use blackbox or something and take the minimalist route. but cmon.. you can build a real nice box for less than $600 nowadays :)18:39
Macerwho cares if something is bulky18:39
* thopiekar is driving crazy it seem to work18:39
javispedrothopiekar: so you'll need to either hack portaudio or hack the maemo version of libasound.. or both18:39
thopiekarstill compiling now..18:39
Macerterabyte hard drives cost $150 heh18:39
Macerplus.. kde apps seem a lot more uniform18:40
Macerlike having OK and CANCEL in the same place18:40
Macerqt looks nicer than gtk18:40
thopiekarwooohhooo the portaudio19-xy packages are mine!18:40
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thopiekarMacer: and its easier to make gui's with pyqt4 for python :)18:49
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Macerugh python18:50
thopiekarMacer: hm?18:50
Macerlol... Sun is the new enron18:50
Macer"Membership in the Sun Developer Network is like having your own ALLACCESS Backstage Pass inside Sun!"18:51
* thopiekar is reinstalling the maemoDiabloSDK18:54
MacerEmployees approx. 22,000 in 200018:54
Macerapprox. 4 as of 2008.18:54
Macerwho are the last 4 remaining enron employees??18:54
javispedrorusty the janitor?18:55
infobotjavispedro meant: scruffy the janitor?18:56
javispedrocan't even get futurama references ok18:56
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lcukjavispedro, don't you mean "can't even get futurama references right" ?18:57
javispedroprobably, thanks :p18:58
lcukMacer, those 4 employees are shredder repair men18:58
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thopiekardo you know btw. why pci-card isn't working after a mainboard upgrade?19:01
plastunhi! I have written program, wich uses gst library. On desktop the program works, on maemo - not19:02
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: thanks btw, just got a working cx3110x built using your patch19:02
javispedroqwerty12: nice to know :)19:04
thopiekarjust upgraded to a ASUS-M3N78-EM ( plus AMD Phenom II 4x3GHz and 4GB RAM) and I can't get my multicard, with DVB-T, DVB-S, analog TV and a modem modul in it, fully working ...19:04
thopiekarwhen I plug it in I just have DVB-T in kaffeine..19:04
thopiekarnobody is replying to me at weeks along19:05
lcukthopiekar, use a livecd and see if it works from there19:05
thopiekarso do you know how to fix that or do you know where to get professionsal help?!19:05
lcuktry to rule out software problem and find as much info as possile19:05
javispedroi guess you're lucky to have dvb-t at all :d19:05
lcukhiya LinuxCode \o19:05
LinuxCodehi ;-D19:06
javispedrothree years I had to wait for my a16d card to be supported19:06
lcukyou back in uk now?19:06
LinuxCodejust wrapped up FUDcon19:06
thopiekarjavispedro: the dvb-t quality isn't that well here, soo..19:06
LinuxCodeno , still in Berlin19:06
LinuxCodeI will be in Germany for another two weeks19:06
thopiekarLinuxCode: hi :)19:06
LinuxCodeflying somehwere else tomorrow19:06
lcuklucky you19:06
LinuxCodeallo thopiekar19:06
LinuxCodelcuk, you wouldnt say that, if you would know of all the things I have to take care of19:06
lcukunlucky you!19:07
LinuxCodelol thanks ;p19:07
lcukheh, did you get a good response at the conf then?19:07
LinuxCodeyeh, was good fun19:07
LinuxCodeand I think people enjoyed it19:08
javispedroqwerty12: i remember doing something else to wpa_supplicant. i'm not sure but I think the problem was with hidden aps. i am telling in case you're wondering through the horrible mess of my code ;)19:08
LinuxCodemost of us are leaving Berlin tomorrow19:08
lcukdid you do any presenting19:08
lcukor were you organising19:08
LinuxCodelcuk, I was organizing, keeping the booth going19:08
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LinuxCodeand anything else that popped up19:09
qwerty12_N810javispedro: oh, trust me, I have no room to talk wrt cleanliness of code :D19:09
lcukso you were too much of a shit to get on stage :P19:09
RST38hMacer: I am a conservative kind of guy. Like to use stuff I am used to.19:09
RST38hMacer: So Gnome kinda works19:09
lcukSYN RST38h19:09
* thopiekar is thinking about buying a 24h internet-flat for 1,99€/month for his Nokia N95 to get with his tablet sometimes online..19:11
javispedroactually, i'm impressed i've seen the whole mess crash only twice in the four months or so i've been using it19:11
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RST38hEHLO, lcuk, EHLO19:12
javispedrobut i'm sure it will if you do something out of what I've debugged19:12
lcukqwerty12_N810, your code is clean and complete.  you even spell checked "northerner" :D19:12
javispedroand I've debugged (mostly) a single defined IAP with hidden ssid19:13
qwerty12_N810Now, why would I want to do that, really? :P19:13
* thopiekar is going to reboot now for checking out his tunercard from ubuntu'S livecd...19:13
thopiekarsee you later :)19:13
qwerty12_N810^^^ lcuk19:13
Stskeepswait, was it landscape most fremantle apps won't do, or portrait?19:13
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JaffaStskeeps: portrait is reserved for special cases (i.e. probably phone mode)19:14
lcukmost are landscape so far19:14
tds5016hello all. quick question... can I develop a google maps application on the n810 with python?19:14
LinuxCode<lcuk> so you were too much of a shit to get on stage :P19:14
lcuki dunno, can you?19:14
LinuxCodeI can do presentations19:14
lcukqwerty12_N810 :P19:14
LinuxCodejust finding a topic to talk about is the problem19:15
lcukLinuxCode, better than me then19:15
Stskeepstds5016: possible, but maemo mapper already exists19:15
javispedrowhat I mean (before battery goes flat): if you're going to try libicd-network-wpa and you define more than one WPA IAP, it'll crash19:15
LinuxCodeas in Im really into and that makes sense to present19:15
javispedroif it doesn't, you're a lucky man19:15
tds5016Stskeeps, I have other purposes than to simply map...19:15
tds5016Stskeeps, is there an google maps api for python somewhere?19:16
lcukif there is it wont be maemo specific19:16
javispedromaybe i am being overly pessimistic lol19:16
tds5016lcuk, the only reason I'm wandering is that I'm not sure how to add python modules to the n810.haha.19:16
lcukfind an executable section, copy on chmod to +x and get jiggy with it19:17
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javispedrohope that wasn't a crasg19:18
infobotjavispedro meant: hope that wasn't a crash19:18
tds5016hahaha, nice terminology. haha.19:18
lcukseriously, the first time you run a python mod on maemo, will smith plays.19:19
tds5016plays what? ;-)19:20
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javispedrouh oh19:22
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* lcuk really has on :D19:23
tds5016oh snap!19:23
lcukthat needs to be made into a real virus19:23
javispedroi crashed the infobot19:24
javispedroto whom I need to apologise?19:24
lcuknoone, when he comes back he will kick your ass19:24
lcukeither that or he had to go19:24
javispedroi'm pretty sure it was me19:25
lcukguilty concience!19:25
lcuksomeone prolly made him have a botfight19:25
lcukand got him kicked for flooding ;)19:25
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javispedroi pm'd him, asking for my karma (to see if it was magically synchronized with's)19:26
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javispedrothen he froze19:26
lcuk* infobot has quit (Excess Flood)19:27
javispedroso I asked for help... 3 times in a row19:27
lcuknow since he didnt flood you19:27
GAN800qwerty12, how's that keyboard, you vkb whore?19:27
javispedrothen he timedout19:27
javispedroand flooded me with help19:27
javispedroor so I guess19:27
qwerty12_N810GAN800: a relief on the whole :P19:27
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javispedroah, here he is19:29
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: I've installed the patched cx3110x, osso-wlan, wpa-supplicant, your module into /usr/lib/icd2 and imported your gconf settings. Do I have to configure a connection to use your icd module by configuring it manually in GConf? :)19:31
qwerty12_N810Aha, thanks19:32
javispedrois there a sample on my repo?19:33
javispedroif not i'll upload my current eduroam config19:33
qwerty12_N810I can't see one19:33
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javispedrohere you have19:38
qwerty12_N810Thank you19:39
javispedrowpa_* keys are passed to wpa_supp via dbus19:39
javispedroi plan to write a wpa_supp.conf to gconf xml converter eventually19:43
javispedroideally a proper ui could actually be written19:43
javispedroand (seems) integrated with icd2 panel applet19:43
z4chhwhere in /proc or /sys can i find listed the cpu freq of the NIT proc?19:44
z4chh/proc/cpuinfo doesn't seem to have it :)19:44
ShadowJKsomething like /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/...blah19:45
z4chhahh yeah19:45
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javispedroqwerty12: did it work?20:21
qwerty12_N810javispedro: no, I can't get the connection to appear in the list:)20:22
javispedrodoes it appear in the configured list?20:23
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javispedrowith the adhoc icon?20:23
qwerty12_N810yep :)20:23
oespirit_~seen florian20:24
infobotflorian <n=fuchs@> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 20h 58m 11s ago, saying: 'Soopaman: just a few devices to show off - some evalboards, pico beamer and laser keyboard'.20:24
qwerty12_N810I may have messed up in the compiling of the icd2 module (took the shortcut way when it said it couldn't find wlancond-supp.h which was to copy it into .. and change the include to "wlancond-supp.h") so I'll have another crack tomorrow :)20:26
javispedroyes, i noticed that , but I don't think that's the culprit20:26
javispedroCFLAGS contains DDEBUG20:27
javispedroso if you launch icd2 from terminal you'll see nots of loise in stderr20:27
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javispedroif you don't then the library is not being loaded20:28
qwerty12_N810Ah, ok, thanks20:28
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javispedrobtw, what's with tmo saying I'm "Michael J Charland"20:31
infobotjavispedro meant: btw, what's with saying I'm "Michael J Charland"20:31
javispedro 's first post20:31
Stskeepsare you not? :P20:33
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javispedrobut then it gets it right in the next posts20:33
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ubuntuhi all20:34
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thopiekarlcuk: I|m now logged in my livecd ala kubuntu but it|s kaffeine shows me just DVB-T , too..20:35
thopiekarwhat can I do now_20:35
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javispedroqwerty12_N810, nothing yet?20:39
qwerty12_N810javispedro: no, it doesn't look like it's being loaded by icd20:40
GeneralAntillesGoddamn Symbian has to be the worst software platform I've ever used.20:48
GeneralAntillesNo wonder Maemo sucks so much20:48
GeneralAntillesIt's all those Symbian idiots.20:48
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: people coming from symbian thinks maemo is a breeze20:48
Stskeepsthat says something about symbian20:48
amri concur about symbian sucking dick20:48
amri have the nokia 6210 navigator20:48
amri've never known something so unstable20:49
GeneralAntillesThe new touchscreen XM has all these new features20:49
GeneralAntillesThat I'm quite certain the 5800 will never see20:49
GeneralAntillesEspecially the 5800 NAM20:49
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GeneralAntillesThe Maps 3.0 "updater" is a Windows-only application that installs a .sis20:49
GeneralAntillesDunno why it can't be done on the phone20:50
GeneralAntillesor requires Windows20:50
GeneralAntillesTried to buy a Maps subscription earlier20:50
GeneralAntillesBut, apparently, Nokia doesn't want my money.20:50
GeneralAntillesUnresolvable credit card error.20:50
GeneralAntillesI can only imagine the sort of brain damage people who like this platform have.20:51
GeneralAntillesThe reality seems to be: every mobile platform is a disgrace.20:51
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GeneralAntillesiPhone OS sucks, Android sucks, Symbian sucks, WinMob sucks, WebOS sucks, Maemo sucks.20:51
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: so you want a windows xp phone you say20:52
amriphones are so much it hype it is rather ridiculous20:52
amrone thing i am sort of jealous of though20:52
amrtheir kinetic scrolling is done well20:52
javispedroqwerty12_N810: well I don't really have a checklist of things to test :P but e.g. is theconfigured network type still "WLAN_WPA" , is the library in /usr/lib/icd2/ (as specified in /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/WLAN_WPA/network_modules ...20:52
JaffaGeneralAntilles: s/mobile//20:52
Firebirdwhat about service provider proprietary mobile OSs?20:52
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, honestly, I've had an easier time with XP than Symbian.20:52
GeneralAntillesFirebird, don't be redundant.20:53
Firebirdthey work pretty well and do what they're meant to20:53
GeneralAntillesJaffa, well, at least PC stuff doesn't continuously impede any sort of productive activity as I use it.20:53
javispedroGeneralAntilles, you forgot "PalmOS sucks" :)20:53
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, no need to mention outdated stuff20:53
GeneralAntillesNewton OS sucks, too, if we're going to start listing that.20:53
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Tried developing over Oracle recently? (Days lost last week due to its braindead '' == null behaviour)20:53
amrwhatd be super is ui design consistency20:53
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: you might like Palm Pre20:54
JaffaGah, I need to brush up on my matrix maths for this accelerometer application20:54
GeneralAntillesJaffa, no, and it's also probably related to simply having gotten used to OS X and XP's suckiness.20:54
RST38hAnother operating systems war?20:54
GeneralAntillesRST38h, everything sucks.20:54
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, doubtful20:54
RST38hCan't agree more.20:54
qwerty12_N810javispedro: yes and yes :P - no worries, I'll just wait for an official release or something :D. Thanks for your help20:54
RST38hExcept for the bees of course.20:54
GeneralAntillesCrappy screen resolution is where it begins, and I can only see it getting worse.20:54
GeneralAntillesSomehow WebOS manages to make a Cortex A8 feel slow.20:55
Firebirdwhat are you suggesting20:55
GeneralAntillesFirebird, kill everyone and everything.20:55
javispedroqwerty12_N810, thanks to you. i'd prefer i we'd managed to get it to work but seems I'm forgetting something or whatever20:55
RST38hGAN: You got to handle a Palm Pre?20:55
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yeah, stopped by a Sprint store last week for a few minutes.20:55
GeneralAntillesFelt pretty slick, but it's not as responsive as the 3G S.20:56
javispedrocause I tough everything would be on a email discussion I had with a fellow Maemo user about it20:56
javispedrobut seems not20:56
GeneralAntillesWhich screams.20:56
javispedroso that means I'll have to do more work for release20:56
javispedroso that means release will be posponed again :P lol20:56
RST38hGAN: well, it is done in html :)20:56
RST38hand javascript20:56
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GeneralAntillesI want to put this phone in a blender and ship it back to Nokia.20:58
* thopiekar is logging out of the livecd and rebooting his pc now...20:59
thopiekarsee you soon xD20:59
RST38h5800 is bothering you again?20:59
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RST38hYou are aware that Nokia Care will not return the blender back to you, aren't you?21:00
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yes.21:00
javispedroYET AGAIN clicked yesterday on the slashdot frontpage only to find it was today's newsline but not-yet-loaded-by-the-slow-javascript21:00
GeneralAntillesRST38h, they can keep it. Maybe they can use it to chop up the rest of the Symbian abominations.21:01
RST38hjavispedro: hint: do not go to, use Google RSS reader for iPhone UI21:01
RST38hGAN: What is the problem with 5800 anyway?21:01
GeneralAntillesRST38h, everything,21:01
RST38hOurs feels pretty good, except that BT broke, so it needs a visit to the service center21:02
GeneralAntillescrappy software that doesn't work or doesn't work as intended, no software updates, no feature updates21:02
GeneralAntillesI wanted to buy a Maps subscription, but can't21:02
RST38hsoftware updates are there, up to v21 now21:02
GeneralAntillesCredit card error that has no solutions.21:02
GeneralAntillesRST38h, no, there's not.21:02
RST38hfeature updates nokia never does21:02
GeneralAntillesNo software updates for the NAM model, apparently.21:02
RST38hGAN: But there is! At least for the .RU model21:02
GeneralAntillesWhich was advertised as a feature when I bought the phone.21:03
GeneralAntillesIt's well and truly the shittiest mobile platform I've ever used.21:03
RST38hGAN: Ok, let me check something, maybe the firmware update part can be fixed21:03
GeneralAntillesNo, it can't21:03
GeneralAntillesI've wasted HOURS of my life trying to fix it.21:03
RST38hGAN: I hope you are not trying to use Nokia Download, Ovi Store, NGage, etc?21:03
RST38hGAN: Because all these should be deleted right away21:04
GeneralAntillesI'm trying to use it for some of the things that are advertised on the box21:04
GeneralAntillesNone of which work21:04
GeneralAntillesOvi Store, for all the hype, is a horrifying abortion, though.21:04
RST38hLike we did not expect that...21:05
GeneralAntillesPhone text/voice, data, web, Maps, etc.21:05
RST38hall this stuff works for my wife21:05
RST38hthe ecommerce crap I deleted right away21:05
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, good for her.21:06
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RST38h5800 NAM is up to version 20.2.014, right?21:06
qwerty12_N810javispedro: dunno what happened but it works! Thank you very much :)21:06
GeneralAntillesRST38h, whatever it shipped with, since there are no software updates.21:07
javispedroglad to hear that21:07
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RST38hOk, let us check. Dial *#0000# and check what it says21:07
javispedrotest if the wpa_supplicant process exists, just in case21:07
javispedroor is that a PAP network?21:07
RST38hJust out of academic curiosity, ok?21:07
GeneralAntillesMaps 3.0 still doesn't want to subscribe.21:08
qwerty12_N810javispedro: yep, I was checking to see if wpa_supplicant was running and it was21:08
RST38hAh fuck their subscription, not worth it21:08
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: 20.2.01421:09
javispedro(that's just because the first time I though I got it working was because the icd configure ui tends to "switch" network type sometimes and had change it to WLAN_INFRA, so it worked, but without using the supplicant :P )21:09
RST38hGAN: Ok. Your firmware is fine. It was released around March 1521:09
javispedrogah. can't write without a spell checker21:09
RST38hGAN: Slightly older than 1 month, not bad really21:10
RST38hAh shit my math sucks :)21:10
RST38hMistook March for May21:10
RST38h.RU version is up to 21.0.025, you are basically missing one major version number21:12
GeneralAntillesThere's absolutely no reason I should be.21:14
RST38hGAN: Correct. Do you want directions on how to turn your RM-428 device into RM-356 and install 21.x.x ?21:15
GeneralAntillesI want an N900, honestly.21:15
RST38hNot feeling adventurous? ;)21:15
RST38hDon't we all...21:15
GeneralAntillesSell this phone to somebody with either the limited requirements or constitution to handle it.21:15
javispedroi'm starting to want a tablet-phone too21:16
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javispedroit's weird since a few months ago I would have called myself crazy for saying that21:16
RST38hDunno, I am not finding 5800 offensive enough to get rid of it21:17
RST38hI mean, compared to some OTHER phones.. :)21:17
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lcukjavispedro, i want an always connected remote link to my pinboard :)21:24
lcukthe one on the wall at the side of me21:24
javispedroas in bulletin board?21:24
lcukwith papers stuck to it and a calendar21:24
javispedrodid you try a webcam? :D21:24
javispedroand a robotic arm to pin new notes21:25
lcuki cant write with a webcam21:25
javispedroscribble it, send it to a remote printer near your pinboard and then develop a robotic arm to pin it21:25
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lcuk :)21:26
javispedroor "virtualize" your pinboard now that it seems all the future has in store is virtualization, more virtualization21:26
javispedroyou got me21:27
javispedrohow much is that application going to cost in the iphone store?21:27
lcuki stopped finger painting yours ago21:27
javispedrodoesn't matter, i am sure that with a little marketing you can still sell it there21:27
javispedroand make money!!21:28
lcukit will allow sketches photos screenshots and notes21:28
javispedrothat remembers me of clie organizer21:28
lcukbut its live21:28
lcukas i make sketches they are uploaded21:28
thopiekarlcuk: I'm back again and there where no differences between my normal os and the livecd..21:29
lcukits faster than paper :)21:29
thopiekarany other suggestions?21:29
javispedroit's a nice idea indeed21:29
lcukthopiekar, sorry, but that moves it back from user error to either drivers or hardware21:29
lcukjavispedro, and with the rendering engine of liqbase underneath it it will work well as well21:29
thopiekardo you know a good place to get help?21:30
javispedroi'm imagining21:30
javispedroliqbase calendar app21:30
javispedrowith a nicely done custom web app21:30
javispedrosyncing seamlessly21:30
lcukcal entries are uploaded like that21:30
lcukthey are just sketches21:31
javispedroi dunno about that21:31
javispedroi am used to events being "data" (with text, repeating rules and all that)21:31
lcukdownload the related sketch, drop it in your calendar and allow overlaying21:31
javispedroand sketches being and aftertough21:31
javispedroafter tough21:31
lcukthats your tough shit then lol21:31
lcukim used to a wall calendar and pen21:31
javispedroand that's nice21:32
lcukand me and the missus understand a star in the corner21:32
javispedrobut sketches should be overlayed21:32
javispedroover a base "static" calendar with21:32
lcukyeah thats easy21:32
lcukthe engine is live21:32
lcukcan do all sorts of "real" calendar stuff21:32
lcuki just want sketches personally tho :)21:32
javispedroI want both things21:33
javispedro(please note that I'm expressing my opinion on this and should not influence your future nice products)21:33
lcuki know :)21:33
javispedroI see myself21:33
javispedroediting my timetables on my computer21:33
javispedrosending them to the tablet as the "base, static" calendar21:33
lcuka nice little area to indicate/highlight ical entries would be decent21:33
javispedrothen drawing exams, tests, whatever I feel over it21:33
lcukbut i dont care much for the format and havent got the time to implement it21:34
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javispedrowith the computer' calendar getting updated in the process21:34
lcukcomputer calendar wouldnt know how to handle sketch notes21:34
lcukso would b better to just have me listening for icals21:34
lcukand keep them kinda seperate but showing shared info21:35
javispedroit can be a custom app too, "trying" to emulate liqbase but using slow gtk calls or whatever21:35
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javispedroshould be a "big but static screen" into the live calendar21:36
lcukjavispedro, khertan has a really good calendar manager that talks to google calendar21:36
lcukits nicely done and works as fast as possible on gtk21:36
* lcuk tips a very big hat at him21:36
lcukit would be nice to just talk to his database and show entries21:36
lcuknot even allowing editing yet21:37
javispedroi think I've tried them all21:37
javispedroi was talking about the "pc edition" either way21:37
lcukgoogle calendar itself then on pc21:37
javispedrobut it needs to be able to show sketches overlaid too21:38
javispedro(and I personally dislike google calendar, but could get used to it :) )21:39
lcukthe only desktop calendar that could show sketches would be liqbase on a desktop21:40
lcukthe engine works on x86 kinda already, and is gonna be used for the wallmount21:40
javispedroi've done lots of paper sketches about my "dream pim app" :D21:41
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javispedrowhich means I'm  probably never going to code it since it would be monstrous21:41
lcuk:) i do lots of sketching about my dream app too :)21:42
lcukand its getting closer and closer every day21:42
javispedroright now I'm basically not using any PIM, which means I'm starting to forget about things (having used a Palm for the last ... 8 years?)21:42
lcuki have had soooooo much work to do to get even this close21:42
lcukthats where liqbase does me, quick notes and a nice interface and multiple views of the same data to play around in means im constantly reminded about upcoming events and it works for me21:43
javispedrowhen I tested liqbase a few weeks ago it gave me a feeling of "framework"21:45
javispedromuch like emacs21:45
lcukit is a framework21:45
lcuki want it to be able to create anything i please21:45
lcuki want to have 10 variations on clocks available21:46
lcukor 10 different sketch editors21:46
lcukwith different functions21:46
lcukdifferent views on the data21:46
lcukand i want it to be simple to configure and setup and choose themes of them21:46
lcukso you might just want a sketch pad and graffiti wall21:46
lcuki want sketch and graffiti and cal and bookreader and user list and clock and stars21:47
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lcukits finding its feet at the moment and im making sure it can do everything i want it to do21:47
javispedrojust be careful it does not turn into emacs with its own mail reader :)21:47
lcukif it gets a mail reader it wont be me that does it21:48
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lcuktho its gonna have to be tracking that server and syncing ;)21:48
Luke-JrStskeeps: wtf is FTD21:50
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qwerty12_N810Luke-Jr: leaked Nokia app, tells you a lot, I used to have screenies...21:51
Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: but what IS it?21:52
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qwerty12_N810if you want it, you'll find it in the catalogue mirror21:54
Luke-Jrit's not in the main one anymore?21:54
qwerty12_N810No, like I said: it was leaked21:54
Luke-Jrso what is so "amazing" about it?21:55
Luke-Jrthe screenshots look like it's simply a GUI for obvious crap21:55
qwerty12_N810It shows very in depth info - run it and look at the battery info21:55
qwerty12_N810But I'm not here to say "use it or die!"21:56
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Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: battery info has more than bme-client?22:06
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Luke-Jror does it bypass BME?22:06
qwerty12_N810it connects to the bme socket iirc22:07
qwerty12_N810lemme check22:07
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qwerty12_N810Luke-Jr: Aye, it connects to BME's socket so I guess it doesn't do any bypassing22:08
Stskeepsyeah, it talks with bulk22:08
Luke-Jrok, does it have more info than bme-client?22:09
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Stskeepsguess where the bme protocol was from22:09
RST38hqwerty: Where should I email fmsx sources?22:10
qwerty12_N810RST38h: please22:10
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pupnik_do you like spam or what?22:11
qwerty12_N810pupnik_: Meh, I'm fine as long as noone signs me up to gay porn :P22:12
RST38hqwerty: Done22:12
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Empireanyone not afk?22:14
javispedrowhen is it considered appropiate for a package to be promoted to extras?22:15
javispedroi mean, I don't really believe I'll ever get a bugreport for openttd in... months22:16
RST38hWhen you sacrificed at least six bulls and a virgin to the Tentacled One22:16
javispedro(and If I get one, since I mostly did nothing :P, I would instantly forward it upstream)22:16
javispedroother than "openttd uses too much battery" which I agree but don't know how to fix other than linking with libosso and pausing when screen goes off22:17
javispedro~seen Tentacled One22:18
Empireanyone want to help me with mer?22:18
infobotjavispedro: i haven't seen 'tentacled one'22:18
StskeepsEmpire: you're better off in #mer22:18
javispedrotoo bad infobot, too bad.22:18
qwerty12_N810javispedro: there was a discussion on that on -developers and I can't remember the specifics but the consensus was that it's not worth it for a sdl app22:18
RST38hOpenTTD needs proper scrolling mechanism22:18
RST38hAnd bigger menus =)22:18
javispedrotap-to-drag not enough?22:18
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javispedroso you want minimap?22:18
RST38hI know it is too much to ask for kinetic, but at least implement simple drag22:19
javispedrowhy is tap-to-drag not enough then?22:19
RST38hcounter intuitive and (more importantly) too easy to activate by mistake22:19
RST38hwhen trying to click on those tiny little menus and icons22:20
javispedromenus are tiny, I agree with that (specially windows' close button)22:20
javispedrobut dragging?22:20
RST38hjust implement simple dragging22:21
javispedrothere is simple panning, if that's what you mean22:21
RST38hi.e. pen goes down, moves across the screen and drags22:21
javispedroyes, that's what I mean with "tap-to-drag"22:21
RST38hthe version I have drags when you click22:22
RST38hit does not drag with the pen22:22
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javispedropc version drags on _right_ click22:22
javispedroextras-devel version drags on "pen" click22:22
javispedroreplace right with left on that message, infobot.22:23
javispedrodo not replace it at all22:23
javispedrodamn dyslexia22:23
javispedroeither way, I can assure you I can drag the pen to scroll in extras-devel version22:24
RST38hnow promote to extras =)22:24
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javispedroso you're the Tentacled One?22:25
RST38hof course not22:25
javispedrotoo late! poor bulls...22:26
RST38hyou are forgetting an important ingredient...22:27
RST38hhint hint...22:28
RST38hAnyways, I have had enough coding for today.22:28
javispedrodo you want me to sacrifice a virgin?? but but but then Macer will put me in the registar22:28
RST38hAs long as it is R4 to R12, you should be fine.22:29
RST38hABI prescribes to save 'em.22:29
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Luke-Jrjavispedro: good luck finding a virgin these days22:32
Luke-JrOpenTTD == open tap-to-drag ?22:33
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* xnt14 is so freaking bored :P22:34
* xnt14 installs openwrt in a vm22:34
xnt14ah screw a vm, ill install it on my old crappy laptop22:35
amrcmon #maemo, recommend me a desktop linux distro22:38
* thopiekar managed to get a working debian-sourcefolder to make a static package of portaudio19 for maemo22:38
* thopiekar will upload it to -devel in some mins22:39
qwerty12_N810amr: linux from scratch22:39
lbtamr: yellow dog22:39
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amrthat's for power cpu tho22:40
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thopiekarwhat is btw the meaning of "tho"? I always think that I'm meant with it..22:42
lbtyou don't have a power?22:43
amrthis is for my desktop22:43
amrjust shorthand22:43
lbtoh, Ubuntu then...22:44
amrthought so :D22:44
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lbtif you have to ask: Ubuntu. If you don't: Debian22:44
amrwell its been a long time since ive used linux on the desktop22:44
amrlike 2 years?22:44
lbtshould be a pleasant surprise then :)22:45
amroh good :)22:45
amroh thats a pleasant surprise too, iplayer works on the NIT22:46
amroh damn, not good framerate though22:46
* GeneralAntilles isn't sure why he agreed to go to the Holocaust museum.22:50
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: inspiration for you going postal over mobile os's22:50
GeneralAntillesNow I'm just depressed.22:50
GeneralAntillesand the place hasn't changed at all since the last time I went 5 years ago.22:50
thopiekarI love this community :P uploaded the portaudio19 sources and moved them for building in -devel.. thank you for helping me today :)22:51
Luke-Jramr: Ubuntu sucks; at least go with Kubuntu22:52
Luke-JrGNOME sucking is pretty objective22:53
amri dont like kde22:53
amrwell, i didnt use to22:53
amrit always seemed far too windowsy22:53
amrplus ugly22:53
amris the linux font smoothing still shit?22:54
Luke-JrKDE is nothing like ugly if you compare to GNOME22:54
Luke-Jrand only Windowsy if you configure it to be Windowsy22:54
Vulcanisnow now guys22:54
Vulcanisno religous arguments22:54
amryou did read the part where i said the last time i used desktop linux was 2 years ago22:54
Luke-Jrthe real suck in KDE is that retarded MySQL dependency22:54
amrand 2 years ago, it was ugly as fuck22:54
Luke-Jramr: only if you configured it to be22:55
amrstandard install22:55
thopiekarLuke-Jr: KDE 3.x was a good and stable desktop but now.. in times of kde 4.x I use gnome because it's the most stable one with lots of plugins, etc... other desktops like e17 or other are too unstable, too or just sucking :P22:55
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amranyway,  not that i care22:55
Luke-Jramr: there is no "standard install" back then; you got prompted first login22:55
amris kde4 any good?22:55
thopiekaramr: too unstable for me..22:55
Luke-Jramr: except for MySQL dependency, bloat, etc22:55
amri saw some of the notification things22:55
amrthey seemed cool22:55
Vulcanisall UIs fail pretty hard in some area, tbh22:56
Luke-Jrwe should start a new DE project22:56
Vulcanisthe NDE22:56
Vulcanisno desktop environment22:56
Luke-Jrthat's console mode22:56
amrall i'd like is some consistency among applications22:56
Vulcanisit automagically presses ctrl+shft+f1 for you22:56
Vulcanisluke: Exactly!22:56
amrbut with so many DEs, i imagine that would be impossible22:56
Luke-Jramr: stick to one22:56
Luke-Jrif you don't use anything GTK+, it should all be consistent22:57
amrh good22:57
VulcanisI think gnome is more supported overall, though22:57
thopiekarwhats up with khertan... does someone knows something about him..22:57
Luke-JrVulcanis: GNOME isn't usable22:58
thopiekarjust got a new home-applet idea for him :)22:58
VulcanisLuke: It isn't, but I think more things are still built for it these days22:58
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lbtLuke-Jr: GNOME is just fine23:03
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thopiekarsee you later.. have to go bed..23:13
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