IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-06-14

johnsqapt-cache search glibc00:00
RST38hConsidering that c++ is nothing more than an extension to c that adds member functions to structures (see cfront and friends)00:00
Luke-Jrkkrusty: to prove GNU's C++ compiler is the real problem, not te language00:00
JaffaRST38h: i.e. the engineering could've been simpler if trying to maintain C source compatibility weasn't necessary.00:00
RST38hJaffa: Not really :)00:00
Luke-JrRST38h: there's also function mangling00:00
RST38hJaffa: C compatibility is the best thing about C++. Pretty much any C++ specific feature added on top of that is a mess00:00
Luke-JrRST38h: and the stdlib00:00
RST38hJaffa: You can pretty much choose any feature00:00
RST38hJaffa: exceptions, templates, RTTI - all fucked up00:01
RST38hSTL hehe00:01
JaffaRST38h: Why do you need C compatibility? Use a C compiler if you want to compile C00:01
RST38hJaffa: A lot of people use C++ as a tidier version of C that allows for better code management00:01
JaffaRST38h: So, in other words, you think C++ is overengineered and overcomplicated. Which has resulted in it being shit.00:01
RST38hJaffa: C++ is perfect for that00:01
* kkrusty wonders if Luke-Jr could try realview's toolkit or some other00:01
RST38hJaffa: Only if you start using C++ specific features extensively, you mess things up (usually)00:02
derfLuke-Jr: The C++ language is undecidable. There's no reason to expect a C++ compiler to _ever_ be as fast as C.00:02
johnsqin the language shootout is the c++ version the fastest00:02
RST38hJaffa: BTW, Java ended up the same way, started "light", ended up as a tumor.00:03
jaskait was malignant from the start :)00:03
derfJava didn't get nearly as bad as C++.00:03
trofic++ in slightly stricter than C on type conversion. -Wc++-compat helps a lot in some cases00:03
RST38hderf: Oh it did really, just look at the runtime size00:03
Luke-Jrderf: C++ is mostly just C with additional syntax00:04
Luke-Jrderf: there is nothing inherently slower about it00:04
derfRST38h: Runtime library is a completely separate issue.00:04
RST38hderf: Luke is right00:04
jaskaand java is.. ickier, memory consumption and lack of stuff like operator overloading, unsigneds00:04
kkrustyLuke-Jr templates00:04
derfLuke-Jr: That "additional syntax" is part of what makes it undecidable.00:04
jaskaand the generics implementation is a kludge00:04
Luke-Jrkkrusty: templates are just syntax00:04
RST38hderf: What people perceive as C++ "slowness" really comes from using specific C++ features00:04
derfThere's no reason for the compiled _code_ to be slower.00:04
derfI'm talking about the compiler.00:04
RST38hderf: As long as you avoid these features you are ok00:04
derfLuke-Jr made comments about both.00:04
Luke-Jrderf: ok, templates excuse the compiler slowness a bit maybe00:05
RST38hderf: Compiler will be slower, especially if using templates00:05
derfRST38h: In practice, nobody avoids those features.00:05
RST38hderf: Not really, lots of people do00:05
kkrustyLuke-Jr theres a lot going on with templates in the backend00:05
RST38hderf: People in our group mostly do00:05
derfRST38h: You are by far the exception, not the rule.00:05
kkrustymangeling, demangeling, removing duplicates etc00:05
RST38hderf: Not really00:05
RST38hderf: Just realistic, and there are more realists than you think00:06
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RST38hderf: Of course, if you get folks fresh out of the same UMD, and let them code without additional tutoring, you end up with a mess00:06
derfLuke-Jr: There's also the fact that all the "object oriented" crap means you need 50,000 inline functions for good performance, and the fact that these are all in the header files means anytime you change the API even slightly, you have to recompile everything.00:06
parigaudic++ with qt is quite clean00:06
RST38hderf: Or a bunch of Indians imported00:06
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Luke-Jrderf: it doesn't mean that at all00:07
derfRST38h: What do you think most of industry is?00:07
Luke-Jrderf: and if you do the same things with C, you need to recompile everything too00:07
RST38hderf: I do not really care. The shittier most of industry is, the more contract work for me :)00:07
Luke-Jrthough I will admit, the "new" operator could be replaced with a method00:07
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derfThere are a _lot_ more incompetent programmers than competent ones.00:07
trofiin any language00:07
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derfAnd I agree with you, except for the part where I have to maintain these people's code.00:08
RST38hderf: You usually get to rewrite it piece by little piece00:08
RST38hderf: If you feel sadistic, may insist on them fixing it, although it is kinda pointless00:08
derftrofi: Yes, but C++ _encourages_ poor programming practices. The obvious way to do things is usually horrible.00:08
trofiderf: i disagree :]00:08
RST38hderf: Fortunately, very few cases of that where I work00:09
RST38hderf <--- essentialy correct00:09
RST38hHow many students had to drop classes after getting lost in overloaded operators...ah...00:09
* RST38h sheds a crocodile tear00:09
RST38hanyways, sleep time00:10
derfMy TA once threatened to fail a project of mine because he didn't think I had done it.00:10
trofievery popular language has proglems with herds of incompetent people. no matter how strict it is00:10
RST38hderf: I never threatened, just failed.00:10
jophishjohnsq, I fixed the problem by manually making symlinks00:10
derfWe were supposed to impelement a disk cache in some data structure... I overloaded the member reference operators, etc., so none of the actual data structure code changed.00:10
trofithey Will do write if bool_var.toString().length() < 500:10
jophishprobably a bad idea though00:10
crashanddietrofi, C doesn't have any problems00:10
troficrashanddie: oh really?00:11
RST38hderf: as long as it worked, wouldn't be a problem, at least with me as a ta00:11
crashanddietrofi, yeah :P00:11
trofiso vhy do people use valgrind?00:11
derfI told him what an idiot he was, and he came back later insisting I had a memory leak.00:11
RST38hderf: never a good idea to call tas idiots00:11
derfSo I showed it running on several billion records in a few hundred K of RAM, and said, "Nuh uh."00:11
crashanddietrofi, because they can't keep track of their memory usage? :P00:11
derfRST38h: Well, I didn't use those exact words, of course.00:11
RST38hderf: Firstly, they usually aren't. Secondly, they have got a few dozen of you, and it may really get to them at the end of office hours00:11
derfI was polite. I'm not stupid.00:12
* RST38h once told a student that the problem was in his DNA. Student left enlightened.00:12
derfBut this only goes to prove my point... code like that is unreadable and unmaintainable. Just by looking at the code you have no idea what is actually going on.00:12
derfIn order to figure it out you have to read some other code somewhere else that you may have no idea is there.00:13
RST38hderf: That is why overloading stuff is rarely a good idea00:13
RST38hderf: And we haven't even started on STL! =)00:13
derfI don't think anyone could successfully argue STL is a good idea.00:13
RST38hderf: Hell, we haven't even started on that "cute" iostreams library that looks soooo nice in examples00:13
RST38hAll those << and >>>00:14
RST38hUntil you have to print formatted output, to a string :)00:14
trofiand .imbue(locale)00:14
trofiRST38h: doesn't boost have printf alike writer?00:15
RST38hderf: The traditional argument for STL is "Somebody already implemented those data structrues so I do not have to"00:15
derfAnyway, personally I've found the minor limitations of using C are greatly worth the assurance that no one will use C++ features in my projects.00:15
RST38htrofi: One more mention of Boost and I throw up.00:15
RST38htrofi: There is standard stdio though, and it works every time for every use case, unlike the artifical C++ stuff00:16
derfThe only sad thing about stdio is that there's no way to write new FILE * backends.00:16
johnsqabout compilers some thinking about tcc for armv6?00:16
trofibut it's unchecked00:16
derfBut that's a library issue.00:16
trofii have to use GCC' format attrs to ensure formats are san00:16
RST38hderf: implement your own STDIO functions and wrap.00:17
RST38hNo big deal, done in ZLib.00:17
RST38hDefinitely SLEEP now.00:17
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mavhcwe should all write in objective C00:27
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nomismavhc: thats very subjective.00:29
mavhcsubjective C: int like, whatever;00:31
nomisheh :)00:32
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johnsqwe should speak about languages, the problem is that there are too less developers.00:34
kkrustyI would be happy to be a developer for maemo if someone promised to hound me if I didnt get work done00:35
kkrusty*maemo based projects00:35
mavhcget work done00:37
kkrustycan you write angry emails and tell me what to work on?00:39
kkrustywell if you say "get work done" I'll just start working harder at my real job :D.00:40
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mavhcstill need a good podcast downloader/player/deleter00:42
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kkrustyI always  have to convert videos with tablet-encode so canola and gpodder are useless to me00:44
mavhcfor video videocenter's ok00:45
mavhcI did use canola, but it won't run now, something corrupt, and it's bloated00:45
mavhcdoes gpodder have a player too?00:45
kkrustyI saw the first season of prison break on the tablet a while ago without tablet-encode. The fences really slowed down the video00:46
mavhccanola, but audio only, much less ram usage, and better keyboard control for skip fordward/back 5/30 seconds00:46
kkrustymavhc: same here.00:47
mavhcand don't include the pause/resume bug00:47
mavhcatm I use videocenter or browser to dl, media player to play, with the recent added playlist, and media player to delete, video center's set to play with mplayer, so audio has no UI00:50
kkrustyI download on my PC with miro, convert with tablet-encode and play with media player or mplayer00:53
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gentooerI no longer need my n800 (getting an android phone soon!) and want to sell it on ebay, but I have installed a modified bootloader and a SD install.  what's the easiest way to reset everything to factory settings?01:20
johnsqgentooer: yes, install the flash file from nokia01:23
gentooerjohnsq, ok and that will get rid of the bootloader as well?01:23
johnsqyes, when set flashing initfs.01:24
gentooerok thanks01:24
johnsqI wouldn't sell it, there still many uses for it and you will not get much for it.01:26
gentooeri really like it, but I only use it for wifi internet when I travel, music, and sshing into my desktop. all of which can be done with android01:27
gentooeri've got 4gb and 8gb SD, two cases, charger, stylus.. i'd be happy with $100 for it01:28
johnsqgood luck and high price.01:29
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gentooerreally, that's high? first one that came up on ebay was already at $10501:30
johnsqno i mean, i wish you getting enough money.01:32
gentooeroh heh, thanks :)01:32
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Luke-Jrwhat does ログイン名(大文字を使用してはいけません)* mean?02:58
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Luke-Jrgentooer: I'd flash Mer and advertise it as a bonus ;)02:59
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NomaLuke-Jr: google translated: Login name (do not use capital letters) * :p03:00
Luke-Jrah, good03:01
Luke-JrGoogle has an English copy03:01
pnkhi guys, i have question to you, my file chooser's opening time is very long, how can i speed it up? (running on maemo sdk/gtk/hildon)03:02
Luke-JrOH YAY03:03
Luke-Jrregistering lets me change language to English03:03
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pnkguys somebody met this problem?03:04
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s0m0ne0utsdeTherHossa too04:23
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Macerafter using nexenta and opensolaris.. nexenta kind of sucks :)05:02
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Maceropensolaris makes  a much cleaner server05:03
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* FireFox` overloads his tablet while using gcc05:35
* kkrusty is done with a python script that does bt queries and then speaks its findings with flite05:36
* FireFox` is building a LFS system on his tablet :)05:36
kkrustythis should be fun; going to work and hearing all the names of bluetooth devices05:38
kkrustythat I encounter on the way05:38
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kkrustyits also going to tell me when I last encountered a device, kind of a way to tell when I last met someone05:39
Luke-Jrkkrusty: how about the device's security level, type, etc?05:42
Luke-Jr"this guy you met exactly a week ago, and just met again, has an insecure phone"05:42
kkrustyLuke-Jr well that isnt done yet05:42
kkrustyLuke-Jr will depend on there being the desired functionality through python05:43
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kkrustyLuke-Jr consider it on my todo list though05:48
* kkrusty heads off to bed05:49
Luke-Jrkkrusty: waiiit05:49
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Luke-Jrb-man16: he has an earlier curfew than you!05:50
Luke-Jrb-man16: how goes the Gentoo?05:51
b-man16something came up this morning and i wasn't able to re install it :(05:51
Luke-Jrwhy re-install?!05:51
b-man16a  couple of days ago i removed it for webos hacking05:52
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Luke-Jrb-man16: need more SD cards?05:53
b-man16yeah xD05:53
Luke-JrI have more than I know what to do with XD05:53
* b-man16 only has a 4gb and 2gb card XD05:54
Luke-Jrwould be nice if I had a second slot on my N810 for removable05:54
* Luke-Jr has 8 GB, 4 GB, and 2 GB, he thinks05:54
* b-man16 is thinking about buying an 8gb05:55
b-man16i need it XD05:55
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CutMeOwnThroatis there some howto that lists the steps to crosscompile with scratchbox from 686-debian-lenny to maemo4.1?05:56
b-man16luke-jr: btw, did you see my new site? | Welcome05:57
Luke-JrThis slideshow requires Adobe Flash Player 9.0 (or higher). JavaScript must be enabled.05:57
Luke-Jr Enter05:57
b-man16you don't have flash? xD05:57
Luke-Jrof course not05:58
Luke-JrI hate that crap05:58
Luke-Jrplus, it's propreitary05:58
Luke-JrI'm perfectly happy with STANDARDS-COMPLIANT web05:58
Luke-Jrwhich apparently doesn't include your site05:58
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b-man16i'm working on making it use jquery instead of flash ;)05:59
CutMeOwnThroatnice... dancing desktops... exactly the cpu-hog you want to forget somewhere in the background05:59
CutMeOwnThroatthe pages behind that have pretty good performance though06:00
CutMeOwnThroatthey print "null" in a couple of ms06:00
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b-man16it's a work in progress ;)06:02
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CutMeOwnThroatso you decided to make all the useless fancy stuff first and see if some content turns up lateron?06:03
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CutMeOwnThroatsorry if that sounded a bit unfriendly, but I got Views on this06:04
CutMeOwnThroatof course, with all the blogs and youtube videos around the word "content" gets a new meaning also06:05
CutMeOwnThroatmind to put "Last updated Feb 9 1856" on the bottom of the pages06:07
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* Fox jumps on #anime06:21
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* CutMeOwnThroat sends 10 dogs after Fox 06:23
* Fox runs into a hole06:23
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* CutMeOwnThroat watches as the dogs dig Fox out and tear him to pieces06:25
CutMeOwnThroatthey call it a sport, btw.06:26
* Fox figures out another route away from danger06:26
CutMeOwnThroatyou're already in pieces!06:26
* Fox is agenst sports that include harming animals06:28
* CutMeOwnThroat 's against animals that include harming sports06:29
CutMeOwnThroatactually I couldn't care less about sports06:29
Foxi just dont like the idea of killing animals as a sport06:30
Macerare there any folding@home irc #s?06:30
Luke-Jrevery time I see a bunny06:30
Luke-JrI think about cooking it up for supper06:30
Luke-Jrjust ask my wife06:30
CutMeOwnThroatshe's a bunny?06:31
Luke-Jrno -.-06:31
Luke-JrI comment on the idea sometimes06:32
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CutMeOwnThroatisn't that cruel if she's a bunny?06:33
* Luke-Jr glares at Fox, aka b-man06:35
Foxdont call me an idiot then :p06:35
Luke-JrFox: don't use flash then06:35
Luke-JrFox: what are you?06:38
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RST38hwazd: time to go is NOW.07:10
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* GAN800 sighs at pig-headed silliness.08:13
GAN800I can see this FBReader insanity is going to be a difficult and time wasting fight.08:14
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* GAN800 doesn't get why slightly easing the support for users who may number in the tens at the clear expense of the rest of your thousands of users is so important.08:15
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wazd_n800morning maemo)08:48
rkirtiwazd_n800: morning08:50
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labaudio!ny clue about rgb njoy format table???09:12
Macerthere is no plot to alice in wonderland09:17
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StskeepsGAN800: worst part is that the scenario might be needed - people do not always have internet connections avail at all for tablets, but they do have usb storage access09:25
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JaffaMorning, all11:27
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lcukmornin jaffa, chan \o11:28
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pnkhi guys, i have problem with gtk and textview, i'm trying to display utf-8, but gets error :/  (my code&errors Could anybody help me, please?12:55
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bobpaulwhen the new browser first came out you could switch backends. mozilla is pretty heavy and really bogs down on some sites. Can one still change backends? is there a webkit backend?16:10
qwerty12_N810google webkit-eal16:11
qwerty12_N810or if you hate default browser entirely: google tear16:11
bobpaulthanks. eal sounds familiar. it's been a while ;)16:12
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n6pfkI have several full screen videos which were playing nicely on the N810 using mplayer.  Now the show as less than full screen with distorted colors.  Is there a way to restore the play back?16:25
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n6pfkOk I changed the -vo to x11 and it now plays nice.16:38
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RahoHello! I'm looking for a description on how to install the os2007 "hacker edition" on the 770, using a WindowsXP computer. Does someone have a link to a tutorial or a flashing software?16:47
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jophishbooting from a flash card, can I use ext2/3 instead of fat32?17:20
jophishfor the internal memory card17:20
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labaudio!ny clue about rgb njoy format table???17:40
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GAN800Stskeeps, weird thing, though, is that FBReader seems to be the only one that does.17:41
GAN800Supporting the offline use-case is particularly silly in Fremantle.17:42
StskeepsGAN800: admittedly - but i agree that the user/ requirement for locally installed debs is insane17:42
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Stskeepsi'd like to see the reasoning for that one17:43
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GAN800Protecting the user17:52
GAN800They can't uninstall them later.17:52
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Jaffakeesj: ping18:15
JaffaGAN800: ping18:15
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Jaffasee pm :)18:20
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jophishis there any way to flash the rootfs from a fiasco image to the internal sd card18:25
jophishI've tried playing around with the options18:25
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ShadowJKjophish, I imagine it wouldn't be easy18:32
jophishah ok18:32
ShadowJKwell, flashing it could be trivial, but reading it isn't :)18:32
jophishah, no simple way18:33
jophishI may as well flash the flash18:33
jophishand copy that over18:33
jophishwith the script here:
ShadowJKthe internal flash is jffs2, which isn't designed for mmc/sd type storage18:33
ShadowJKThe image on the internal flash is jffs2, I mean18:34
jophishyes, that makes sense18:34
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jophishJust wanting a clean install on the internal sd18:34
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jophishbut then what do I do with the internal flash18:34
jophishgoing to be wasted space I guess18:34
ShadowJKwell it's just 256M of wasted space.. ;)18:35
jophishI wonder if I could install mer there18:36
jophishor another os18:36
jophishthey have a flashable image18:36
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johnsqbuy a 16gb card than you didn't need the 256mb18:37
jophishsure, I don't need it anyway18:38
jophishjust being a pedant18:38
jophishso, clean install of diablo18:39
jophishshift that to the internal mmc18:39
jophish(which is one big ext2 partition)18:39
jophishthen install mer on the flash18:39
jophish*big ext2 partition, except for a 128mb swap18:40
jophishnothing's wrong with that?18:40
johnsqwhy not ext3?18:40
jophishyes, I meant that18:41
jophishwould it be difficult to share the home partitions between them18:41
jophishon the internal ssd18:42
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johnsqI would only share the data directory.18:42
jophishwhat do you mean by that18:43
jophishsymbolic links in each OS's home to the same places?18:44
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johnsqin the home are also the . files, which I wouldn't share just documents.18:44
jophishso for the mer home, all the documents and whatnot, symlink to the the maemo's home's folders18:45
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jophishthat does seem like a sensible thing to do18:45
jophishthanks for youe help18:45
jophishI wonder if there is anything else I can share between the two18:46
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jophishe2fsprogs is not in extras, should I correct the wiki page here:
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jophishin what package is sfdisk included?19:27
jophishnot in e2fsprogs19:27
qwerty12_N810it comes with the table19:27
jophishI don't seem to have it19:28
jophishclean diable flash19:28
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qwerty12_N810and you're root?19:28
jophishah that was it19:28
jophishonly shows up as root19:29
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jophishwhere could I find mke3fs19:35
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slonopotamusmkfs -t ext319:43
johnsqmkext2 -j19:43
keesjJaffa: Pang!19:43
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jophishI'm afraid I don't have either of those commands19:44
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johnsqjophish: sorry mke2fs is it19:44
jophishwith journalling I presume19:45
johnsqyes with -j you get than the ext3, I have used -I 128 to make inodes smaller and use less space19:45
jophishuppercase I?19:46
jophishlisted on as a lowercase19:47
johnsqseems that the maemo version didn't have it19:47
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slonopotamus-t ext3 is igeologically more correct :P19:49
johnsqslonopotamus: my kernel with make n800_defconfig, didn't compile, the correct is make nokia_2420_defconfig19:50
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slonopotamusjohnsq, i recommend layman -S, there were problems again with cx3110x, hope they are all resolved now19:54
johnsqI currently compile the X part, so I can't test. but it is in the queue19:55
slonopotamusk. X should be easy19:55
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* slonopotamus still has weird things with keypad actually19:55
johnsqI will see, I have expierience with the linux input layer.19:57
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slonopotamusjohnsq,  what xorg version btw?19:58
johnsqslonopotamus: x11-base/xorg-server-1.5.3-r619:59
Jaffakeesj: it was about the summit stuff, but I've made my idea public(ish) now :)20:01
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jophish-t ext3 didn't work20:01
jophishso I used 'j20:01
johnsqcheck if you have enough files, before you fill the flash.20:02
jophishwhat do you mean?20:04
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johnsqjophish: the the number of inodes is big enough.20:05
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jophishtoo late, already formatted it20:06
jophishusing -I 12820:07
johnsqIs didn't change the number of inodes, only the size.20:07
jophishthat's what I though20:07
jophishI susnt change -i20:07
jophishwhat could the problem's be with using the default?20:08
johnsqyou get out of space on the flash20:08
johnsqhappend me compiling gcc after many hours20:09
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johnsqtune2fs -l /dev/mmcblk... <- to check20:10
jophish245269 inodes20:11
jophishthat's lots of files20:11
johnsqyea, I had only 90k20:12
jophishwhat did you do20:12
jophishcopy and reformat I guess20:12
johnsqyes. backup on pc, reformat now with 1million and back20:13
jophishis there any way to change the default mount options, specifically to add noatime20:13
qwerty12_N810in latest diablo, noatime is default20:14
johnsqi don't know but you can change them with tune2fs, but if mount from maemo supports it?20:14
jophishah great20:14
johnsqwhy is sys-fs/sshfs-fuse masked on arm gentoo?20:17
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jophishthis script:
jophishchanging the partition to p1 should make it consider the first partition instead of the second20:23
jophishit says in the blurb that only the second partition is considered, this is not a technical reason?20:24
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radicwill it work to dump /dev/mtdblock4 to a file on a SD-Card?21:02
johnsqwhy shouldn't it work?21:02
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slonopotamusplease open in microb and any other browser. do you see same thing?21:11
jophishwhat am I supposed to be seeing?21:12
qwerty12_N810no. does the page have an rss feed?21:12
johnsqyes, i see the rss logo with firefox21:13
jophishme too21:14
jophishI see the feed in mocrob21:14
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slonopotamusi wonder whos bug it is21:14
infobotslonopotamus meant: i wonder whose bug it is21:15
lbtwhat's the prob slonopotamus? (no microb to hand)21:16
slonopotamuslbt, microb shows activity log on white bg and nothing else21:16
slonopotamuscan make a shot, if you want21:17
lbtnot for me right now.. :) food in a sec21:17
slonopotamuslooks like gitorious gives rss feed instead of page contents to microb21:19
jophishwonder why?21:19
jophishmust be a deliberate feature21:19
slonopotamusmaybe they just don't like microb :)21:20
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jophish"heheh this will surely confuse them!"21:21
slonopotamusmaybe something wrong with microb Accept-Encoding feature21:21
slonopotamusrss has same url as page itself? (no ff here)21:22
slonopotamusthat's just a wild guess21:22
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jophishHow is the virtual memory organised in maemo21:27
jophishbecause I think that I have a ghost virtual memory file21:28
slonopotamuswtf is 'ghost virtual memory file'?21:28
jophishdoes maemo create a hidden file for virtual memory?21:29
jophishbecause I think I have two on me memory card21:29
jophishbecause I'm missing about 128mb space21:29
jophishprobably exactly21:29
jophishso there can't be more than one?21:31
wazdheya maemo21:32
qwerty12_N810hullo wazd21:33
wazdjust got back from nokia mobile camp21:33
wazdhave some really interesting shocking info bout maemo but don't know if I'm allowed to tell it :D21:33
Corsac(does “tumbler” rings a bell around?)21:34
slonopotamuswazd, maemo is deprecated? :)21:34
wazdguess how many maemo devices will come up in 2010? (instead of rx-51 and rx-71 in 2009)21:34
wazdinstead = along21:35
Stskeepswazd: does mer devices count? ;p21:35
wazdStskeeps: fremantle only :D21:35
Corsacwazd: 42?21:35
jophish44? 12.6?21:35
Corsacwazd: Pi ?21:35
wazdyou will be really surprised :)21:36
jophishoh, be rational Corsac!21:36
johnsqI need only one.21:36
wazdwell, that was my reaction :)21:36
jophishall nokia or what?21:36
Corsachow many not from nokia?21:36
wazdI was like "eeer, fourteen?@)21:36
wazdCorsac: dunno bout this21:37
johnsqhas the maemo on screen keyboard cursor keys? if not who has designed it?21:38
wazdrx-71 exists and it's cool :)21:38
Corsacdo you have an ETA for leaks?21:38
Corsac:>21:38 has e7221:38
wazdI haven't signed any NDA so I don't think that I'll be punnished for this21:38
Corsacmaemo based??21:38
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Stskeepswazd: did they make you write on a big piece of paper?21:39
Stskeepsif so, did you look under it? :>21:39
wazdno, it was just an ordinary discussion with nokia related person :)21:39
wazdbut not nokia employee21:40
Stskeepsrussian "ordinary" = "plenty of vodka included"? ;)21:40
wazdStskeeps: nah, there were no alcohol at all :(21:40
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jophish14, that's quite a lot21:41
Corsachmhm, e72 looks nice21:41
Corsacbut I'm not sure it'll match against the n90021:42
wazdas i was told rx-71 is a slider phone :)21:42
Corsacwell, if they manage to correctly handle calendar, contacts sync etc.21:42
wazdhaven't seen it for myself anyway21:42
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wazdCorsac: full pim21:42
Corsacfor fremantle>21:42
Stskeepsyeah, but that one is known21:42
wazdCorsac: yep21:42
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jophishwhat's 12mb+2mb+156mb, maemo seems to think it's 343mb21:48
wazdwhat else can I tell you without being killed :)21:48
Stskeepswazd: i can tell by your joy that i should buy one anyway :P21:49
jophishhave you any pictures?21:49
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wazdjophish: are you crazy? :)21:49
jophishused space on a card21:49
ShadowJKthe internal flash is compressed21:50
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jophishthis is the internal sd card21:51
jophishsays in use 343MB21:51
jophishhowever all it has on it, is a clone of the internal flash21:51
jophishafter a clean flash21:52
qwerty12_N810yes, and like ShadowJK said, the internal flash is compressed. your sd card is not21:52
jophishoh I see21:52
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kkrustyhmmm I got 173 new bluetooth lookup results in 3 hours.22:06
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kkrustyand Im sick of hearing "xxxx first found now"22:07
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jophishhow does maemo mount the external sd card?22:11
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jophishbecause I moved maemo to the internal sd card, and it has trouble finding the card22:12
jophishI can see it all in xterm, after manually mounting it22:12
jophishbut it doesn't appear in the file manager22:12
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slonopotamusmaemo needs first partition to be fat3222:13
infobotslonopotamus meant: maemo needs first partition to be fat22:13
jophishhmm, that'd odd22:13
jophishbecause when I boot into maemo (exactly the same) on the internal flash, it detects the card22:13
jophishat the moment it's ext322:13
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johnsqjophish: mine shows both card, i made only 1 ext3 partion on each22:18
jophishthat's the same setup as me22:18
jophishI see the internal card, with one ext3 partition22:18
jophishbut no external card22:18
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jophishoh rats, now I can't even see the internal card, despite booting off it22:21
jophishbut I can see the external one22:21
jophishwhat a conundrum!22:21
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jophishtaking out the external card causes me to reboot22:26
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jophishand when the external card isn't in, I don't see the internal card22:29
jophishbut plugging it in while maemo is running allows me to see it22:30
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jophishthat's exactly the one22:32
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lbtJaffa: can you upgrade git on badger?22:38
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Jaffalbt: hmm, tricksy. It's debian stable so... can you check if it's in the backports?22:39
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lbtoh, I thought it was 1.5.x in stable....22:39
lbtis it oldstable?22:40
lbt ?22:41
JaffaHmm, yeah - oldstable22:42
Jaffa1.5 in etch-backports22:43
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lbtyou may be interested in
Jaffalbt: upgrading git22:46
lbtgreat - ta :)22:46
Jaffaandrew@badger:~ $ git --version22:48
Jaffagit version
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jophishrats, seems like I cane ave rotation and a mmc card fix22:57
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jophishoh well, never used rotation much anyway22:57
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qwerty12_N800compile your own kernel :)22:58
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jophishthis is another one of those slippery slopes23:00
jophishwhen I start to compile my own, it will break other things23:00
locutuswin 3723:00
jophishcompiling a kernel for the NDS was a nightmare23:01
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jophishhow can I get a new kernel onto maemo which is on the internal sd card23:04
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RST38hmoo all23:09
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qwerty12_N800jophish: unzip/untar file containing zImage and as root, run fiasco-flasher -f -k <path to zImage>. The kernel is on a separate partition in the flashed that is used by whatever system you're booting into be it flash, mmc etc23:12
jophishI see23:12
jophishthanks very much23:12
johnsqqwerty12_N800: but no separate kernel for different boots.23:13
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qwerty12_N800johnsq: indeed23:13
jophishpresumably, two maemo's would use the same kernel, but what about mer?23:14
qwerty12_N800mer uses whatever kernel happens to be flashed to the tablet23:15
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johnsqsomebody working on new bootloader (xloader iirc)23:22
Stskeepsjohnsq: if you bust NOLO, X-loader you have bricked your device quite hard23:23
Stskeepsso no, we're just happy with x-loader23:23
johnsqsure this a problem, but it is nokia fault, that it can only boot one kernel image.23:24
Stskeeps.. how is this a fault23:24
jophishis there any way to change where maemo puts the virtual memory file?23:25
Stskeepsafaik i think it can boot from sd too but that's another topic23:25
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