IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-06-13

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jophishwhat are the best parameters for video on the n810, bitrate, resolution, codec etc...00:02
Stskeepsi'd look at the wiki00:03
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xnt14~seen b-man1603:22
infobotb-man16 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 46m 46s ago, saying: 'lol'.03:22
xnt14well, he died :P03:23
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nobody19hey, does anyone want to play a game?03:33
Proteousfunny, the only way to win is not to play03:33
Proteoushow about a nice game of chess03:33
nobody19if you do, please go to #yandere03:34
nobody19we need peoploe03:34
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LinuxCodeProteous, you watch too many films03:35
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Proteousthat's a good one though03:45
ProteousI have an unhealthy knowledge of movies that involve computers03:46
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nobody19if xnt14 is still here, we're starting a game04:14
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qkallHey im having an issue with canola...06:20
qkallI wasnt...06:20
qkallNow its saying it cant find libeina06:20
zakkmqkall: what version?06:21
zakkmtrying to install it?06:21
qkallAnd i cant find it to download diablo06:21
zakkmyou dont have diablo?06:21
qkallNow sorry im not being clear06:21
qkallI have diablo06:21
qkallAnd im trying to install libeina for canola06:22
qkallIf i can get the default ;edia player more codecs06:22
zakkmis extras repository installed?06:22
zakkmin my opinion, you should use mplayer06:22
zakkmwhich wil llist all the videos, when you open it ( opens like instantly ) and then you just click on filename06:23
zakkmit has like a list06:23
qkallWell im trying to access my shared folders..06:23
zakkmdo you have extras-devel ?06:23
zakkmonesec ill get you the deb06:24
zakkm should do06:24
zakkmwait deb package would be better06:25
qkallWell thats somethimg else i need installed...06:25
qkallBut i know i can (i hope) figure that out..06:26
qkallBut thats :)06:26
zakkmlike i would of thought it would be in extras, but its definitely in extras-devel06:26
qkallStill getting used to this thing06:26
zakkmwhich is a totally different repository, unless you just want to download the deb of libeina and then install that06:27
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qkallI may have to come back for a link06:31
qkallNeed to close some things06:31
qkallThanks again06:31
zakkmyw :)06:32
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qkallNow its failing to install libeina07:23
qkall"Application package not found"07:24
qkallEven tho i double checked maemo extra dev is installed07:25
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GenKreton__on my n810 I used to be able to call up the finger keyboard when the physical one wasn't slid out, and when it was slid out, it wouldn't come up, now it ALWAYS comes up, how do I get the old behavior back?07:30
qkallOk i determined that the link is broken... But i cant find the original to link.07:30
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qkallWell imight be able to point you right07:31
qkallIn the vontrol panel07:31
qkallTheres a text portion and thatll have that07:32
GenKreton__i think i've tried all combos :(07:34
GenKreton__(nothing mentions disable while keyboard is slid out or the likes)07:34
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qkallOh i see what your saying---07:34
qkallNot sure... New to this device07:35
GenKreton__ahh :( thanks though07:35
qkallI mean if you havent already google might help..07:36
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qkallWell imma just reflash the bitch07:43
qkallCant figure it out and luckily havent done anything i cant do again07:43
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qkallGod speed.07:43
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jwooffhi, I just removed chinok and mozilla from my apt sources, then did apt-get update && apt-get upgrade. later I shut it down, and now when I start it up it boots fully, then reboots about 2 seconds after the desktop is shown07:48
jwooffit just keeps rebooting until I pull the battery07:48
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jwooffeach time I see the desktop briefly, see the flashing exclamation that means there are updates available, then the blue light comes on, and it blacks out and reboots just as the blue light finishes fading07:50
jwooffanything I can do? or do I have to reflash?07:50
jwooffthere a way to boot into a different runlevel or something?07:51
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* man_in_shack looks around08:26
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Proteousis your shack insulated?08:38
jwooffnm about my rebooting, I reflashed08:40
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man_in_shacki'm wondering if anyone has tried vgb or ines on the n81008:48
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qkallOk i got a libeinas0 issue...09:33
qkallReflashed still issues09:33
qkallI think ive determined that the link to is broken09:34
qkallBut im used to it being in /usr/lib09:35
qkallWell in general...09:35
qkallI just cant find it :(09:35
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qkallNo one? I just want to use canola again...09:42
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qkallLol 225 people and nothing... If only google would help09:50
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woglinde_iceircing at 200 km/h10:26
Stskeepswhile driving? ;)10:28
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woglinde_icestskeep lol10:34
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woglinde_ice am /join #oe10:47
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aquatixmorning all11:15
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lbtgnuton: morning....12:07
gnutonhello lbt12:07
lbthad server probs yesterday!12:07
lbtall sorted now12:07
lbtready to git going12:08
gnutonlbt: okay12:08
gnutonlbt: I finished to split all the patches12:09
lbthard isn't it12:09
gnutonand I'm sketching the rep now12:09
gnutonyeah, splitting our changes in several patches is a very annoyng..12:10
gnutonnow it's time to cross my fingers and pray12:11
gnutonhaving different branches can make a lot of troubles12:11
lbtis it worth doing a test-run somewhere?12:11
gnutonwhen you apply several patches12:11
lbtyes, the risk of collisions and doing it in order -- but I think git makes that easier12:12
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gnutonlbt.. mmm I hope that!12:12
lbtis it worth numbering the branches?12:12
lbtjust so that when we merge12:12
lbtwe're always consistent?12:13
gnutonthe problem is that some branches are dependent from other branches12:13
lbtso numbering will help12:13
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gnutonI m not sure that numbering that resolve that issue.12:14
gnutonI think that gitk give a good understanding of the branches organization12:15
lbtI guess when we hit a problem in merging12:15
gnutonor for now my sketch12:15
lbtwe have to resolve it in the branches themselves12:15
gnutona ok.12:15
lbtsure... are you doing the sketch like mine ? or that online one you mentioned?12:16
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gnutonyes. I'm doing it12:16
gnutonphone.. se you in some minutes12:16
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lcukx41lbt: scaling on scrolling needs more work, i was not as impressed when i put it in place, but that might just be implementation12:19
lbtspeed vary left-to right ?12:20
lcukx41as scrolling through i panned out the entire list slightly12:20
lcukx41based on speed of scrolling12:20
lbtwhat happened?12:20
lcukx41so instead of seeing N items it saw N*1.4 or whatever based on speed12:21
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lbtyou need to keep the speed the same you know12:21
lcukx41it kinda worked12:21
lbtand just scale12:21
lcukx41but it didnt help12:21
lbtso you get more items/sec12:21
lbtbut same pixels/sec12:21
lcukx41it didnt look right tho12:21
lcukx41it was more disconcerting12:21
lbtfair enough12:21
lcukx41it appeared to work better on image lists - the one with all the heads worked best, but on a general list it was useless12:22
lcukx41was worth it just for a try :) it can be restored and tweaked and tested more in future12:23
lcukx41i even tried zooming in slightly12:23
lcukx41it gave a generic overshoot effect12:24
lcukx41but i ripped that out as well lol12:24
lbtheh ... good to play with12:24
lbtshould do a video12:24
lcukx41wasnt worth it for that one, ive left the code block there commented out12:25
lcukx41its inthe one central rendering function, it just said "if in kinetics change render scale by $expr"12:25
lcukx41how many patches does it look like you need for qt12:26
lbtI don't know... it depends how fine-grained antonio does it12:27
lcukx41heh, you are totally riht about git tho, would be more hassle trying to do this a few years ago12:28
lcukx41right ^12:28
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lcukx41lbt: we know qt creates nice cross platform apps, but at present they are all standalone x11 apps and need the x11 compositor to bring them together12:30
lcukx41i know its possible to create your apps as user controls, but that takes planning at the start of the app stage i gather12:31
lcukx41for instance, you couldnt just pick up shopper and integrate that in a .so and use multi instances of it could you?  or can you?12:31
lbtbut there is another wa12:32
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lbtit's called an OS <grin>12:32
lbt(and I'm fairly serious)12:32
lcukx41yeah, but look at iphone and pre and andriod, their apps exist within an app framework12:32
lbtyeah, but this is not a good thing12:33
lbtit is a bad, bad thing12:33
lcukx41someone mntioned on a different topic about how most of his java apps on a different platform are all integrated into one process12:33
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lbtthe OS should handle multiple apps12:34
lbtand IPC12:34
lcukx41ie the email app and the contacts app and the camera app are all together and dont have the x11 boundary12:34
lbtin which case an 'app framework' is an OS...12:35
lbtthat's what an OS does12:35
lbtcan the contacts app just read the camera app data?12:35
lcukx41i dunno, was just observation and enlightenment12:36
lcukx41i was trying to work out what was different in their implementations than linux in general12:36
lcukx41and its the same principle as liqbase lol12:36
lbtI suppose it's an FYI that some of the things you discuss are normally handled by an OS12:37
lcukx41and in the scenario you mentioned, yeah contacts should just be able to get at either an instance of the camera app, or the recent photos or something12:37
lbtand whilst you can bypass the OS12:37
lbtyou should know why12:37
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lbtso if they can "get at" each other12:38
lcukx41yeah i know, theres big issues with a single process arch12:38
lbtyou have security issues12:38
lbtand these days you just gave a virus full access12:38
lbtnot only to contacts12:38
lbtbut to the framework too12:38
lcukx41every single app you install has the capability at present to do whatever it wants12:39
lbtnot in linux12:39
lbtno linux app can modify another app's binary12:39
lcukx41app-manager here lets you install anything12:39
lbtwhen run by a user12:40
lcukx41and can install root apps12:40
lcukx41or sudoers lines12:40
lbtheh... and now you understand the issue there12:40
lbtdrive-by installs....12:40
lcukx41i know its there, which is why a good validation process for extras is important12:41
lbtOTOH "please install this pretty screensaver as root... thanks"12:41
lcukx41and getting rid of random repos where possible12:41
lcukx41this is the similar issue you were on about for adding stuff to os repos12:41
lcukx41obs ^12:41
lcukx41i agree entirely :)12:42
lbtnow liqbase introduces another mechanism by which you can "install" things12:42
lcukx41so if you have 50000000 validated apps in the same framework that are trusted by human peer validation it can work well12:42
RST38hmoo lcuk12:43
lcukx41its just the same as the hildon-desktop applets12:43
lcukx41but they are more integrated12:43
lcukx41hiya RST38h12:43
lbtthis is just food for thought, not right/wrong12:43
lcukx41lbt, the best security is watching out for each others backs12:43
lcukx41there will never be one single perfect way to protect against everything12:44
lbtand I'm pointing out areas where you don't need to do "the same .so"12:44
lbtand in fact if you don't do that12:44
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lbtyou have to use an IPC solution12:44
lbtand if you use IPC you need decent APIs12:44
lbtbut that then lets you run one liqbase app on another tablet12:44
mavhccan an app alter its own binary?12:44
lcukx41depends on location mav12:45
lbtand use a network IPC and the same API12:45
lbtmavhc: in general not the on-disk image, but it can self-modify12:45
lcukx41on x86 thats even prevented now isnt it12:46
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lcukx41so you can only modify non executable memory blocks or something12:46
RST38hIT BOOTS!12:46
lbtthere are some solutions12:46
qwerty12lcukx41: That DEP gobshite?12:46
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qwerty12Turned off here, fucks with my download speeds12:47
lcukx41mmm shouldnt really?12:47
lcukx41unless you were modifying browser code with direct downloads12:47
lcukx41maybe microsofts' implementation was suboptimal12:47
mavhcmore like he's talking bollocks12:48
lcukx41me or qwerty lol12:48
qwerty12Meh, I found it work after reading on the internet12:48
lcukx41dep is just a mechanism to stop a process modifying the running code to prevent hijacking12:49
mavhcsomeone said buffer overflows are due to having the stack grow down in memory12:51
lbtso lsmod tells me what loadable modules (cf drivers) are installed and their deps. How do I see what compiled in 'modules' are present and if they're in use?12:53
lcukx41i dunno lbt12:57
lcukx41omg 13 people on the iss12:57
lcukx41with all that weight wont it fall down12:58
lcukx41ok then12:59
lcukx41with all that mass wont it fall down ;)12:59
lcukx41does anyone here think they will get into space?12:59
* lcukx41 hopes he does oneday12:59
mavhcalso wont means likely13:00
mavhcspace possibly, orbit, more unlikely13:01
mavhcproblem is energy prices don't drop13:01
mavhcget some of those life extension drugs and maybe13:02
lcukx41root of the tree-of-life13:03
mavhcif you're willing to take untested drugs you're fine, but testing them would seem to take many years13:04
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lcukx41you can test them quickly, but you dont know the long term results lol13:04
mavhcthey can make mice live 30% longer13:05
lcukx41lucky mice13:06
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lcukx41is it just me or is ubuntu default x-chat somewhat watered down version13:12
qwerty12You're using gnome-xchat13:12
qwerty12Uninstall that shit and install the real one13:12
lcukx41that would imply doing something about it lol im just using whats provided13:13
lcukx41qwerty12: have you looked at the java framework thing bman has been flashing around13:14
lcukx41or has it just been noise13:15
qwerty12Me? I don't know javascript13:15
lcukx41i know that13:17
qwerty12So, why would I have a need for it? :)13:17
lcukx41you wouldnt for now lol, was just seeing if your curiosity made you look13:18
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lcukis there a command to add an entry to debian/changelog14:43
lcukwithout havign to manually go in and mess - like a git commit line?14:43
GeneralAntilles dch?14:45
lcukill check, ta if it does GeneralAntilles14:46
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markcis there a simple obvious trick to get the network working with the 4.1 Intrepid sdk in virtualbox?15:30
crashanddiemarkc, check /etc/resolv.conf15:31
markccrashanddie: hmm, I can't ping an IP... I'm checking out but it seems to assume the network "just works"... I've tried a suggestion in "networking problems"15:33
markcrebooting vb and try again15:34
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markcnope, vb is PCnet-Fast, nat, guest ip is eth3, host has eth0:0 as with masq to eth0, gw,  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward = 1 ... anything I've missed?15:40
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jophishMorning all15:51
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rZrany multitouch hack on n8x0 ?16:01
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lbtold news.. ask lcuk; he had it working LAST YEAR16:04
RichiHare any nokia people in here?16:05
lcukno, this is an apple channel16:05
RichiHlbt: got any nicks?16:05
* lbt ran out of apples16:05
lbtand had a nectarine16:06
lbtRichiH: just ask/talk16:06
lcukliqbase has a powerlemon!16:06
lbtthis isn't a Nokia support channel though16:06
thuxis there nokia support channel somewhere?16:09 ?16:09
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lbthighly unlikely that they'd do irc :)16:09
* lbt imagines the trolling/baiting....16:10
RichiHlbt: in this specific case, i would prefer query16:10
RichiHbut i am not in a hurry so i will just lurk here16:10
lbtit took me months (and face-2-face meetings) before I knew who was nokian :)16:11
lbtjust saying ... if you need help ... anyhow... feel free to lurk16:11
RichiHbut while i am here, what is the status (if any) of the gtk->qt move? i heard rumours shortly after the aquisition but never followed it up16:12
lbtit is in progress16:12
lbtbut it's more of a move to dual16:12
lbtthan a move away from gtk16:12
RichiHlbt: yah, i understand why. i guess they don't exactly fancy being hunted down by dozens of people for random crap16:12
lbtfor the forseeable16:12
* lbt nods16:12
RichiHwith the memory constraints on a mobile platform i would assume they would want to only load one lib16:13
lbtthey talked about Qt being 'supported' in Fremantle +116:13
lbtI use it quite happily on N800 though16:13
lbtand it is more modular now (though not tiny)16:14
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RichiHlbt: but the main UI is still based on gtk+, then?16:15
lbtwe're working with gnuton (hey, have you posted yet!) on the hildonisation16:15
lbtyes it is16:15
lbtQt is currently only used for apps16:15
lbtthough if you wanted to explore then Mer would be the place to do ut16:15
lbtQTablet is an option to replace the WM bt there's a fair amount of stable gtk/glib stuff16:16
lcukRichiH, "main ui" involves a lot of code, you cannot just whip out and replace it overnight, no1 ever expected it to be :P16:16
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RichiHlcuk: obviously. which i did not expect it to happen over night. but asking about the whole thing is still valid, no? ;)16:17
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lcuktis still very valid, lbt himself is making a nice list of whats needed :)16:17
* lcuk is also making a nice list too :)16:18
RichiHlbt: well, i guess what the main use case is. on a toy/dev thing breaking stuff is fine. on a n900, i would rather use stable stuff16:19
* RichiH is still wondering how easy it will be to make maemo run on a pandora16:19
lbtthat's what Mer is for... :)16:19
lcukmer would be a better target16:19
RichiHthe n900 and the pandora share the same platform, after all16:19
RichiHjoined already, yah16:19
RichiHstill reading up on what it actually is, though :)16:19
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lbtMaemo for other platforms16:20
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thuxis there a update for diablo's flash-plugin? web-pages are started to say you need newer flash16:22
RichiHi am really looking forward to pitting it against angstroem16:22
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AFBN810Ok I saw a n800 on the other side of room at SELF who is here with me lol16:24
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RichiHdoes the USB port on a n810 or n900 give the full 500 mA in host mode?16:25
lcukits usbotg16:26
GAN800RichiH, UI-wise it'll murder it.16:27
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RichiH seems to imply otherwise16:36
RichiHalso, is this the canonical channel for the actual hardware or should i take this elsewhere16:36
lbtno, this is the right place...16:37
* VDVsx bets that the fremantle main UI, will not be entirely based in hildon and will be totally different from what we see now in the SDK :P16:39
GAN800RichiH, it provides 100mA in USB host.16:45
GAN800VDVsx, what will it be based in?16:46
AFBN810ok I'm shocked there are 3 n800s within 10 feet of me here16:46
VDVsxGAN800, clutter + some technology similar to wrt (web widgets)16:47
AFBN810and I swear one of them is in xchat lol16:47
GAN800VDVsx, I'll be pissed if they pull a stunt like that after all the openness talk.16:47
GAN800We've seen how well the whole HTML/js thing works for WebOS16:48
lcukGAN800, who says they arent open - the nokia WRT is fully open and documented - its just not shoved infront of your face16:48
VDVsxGAN800, hildon is being developed by contractors, what the nokia engineers are doing ? :)16:48
GAN800If they're moving in a totally different direction than what's in the SDK, then, no, that's not open behavior.16:49
GAN800VDVsx, Nokia contracts lots of stuff. The Nokia engineers are working on things that aren't contracted.16:49
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lcuki actually agree gan and dont think its gonna be whipped from under us, but there could be a nice game engine in the works somewhere :)  that doesnt take away what core underlying x11 stuff there is16:50
VDVsxGAN800, I don't mean to say that they will not use hildon, but they will probably try to impress with some cool new stuff16:50
* konttori__ has seen some very nice game running on the new device. 16:51
konttori__the 3d power of the device is stunning16:51
lcukkonttori__, ive seen a wicked new game running on the new device as well16:52
konttori__lcuk: do you have one (device) now?16:52
GAN800I can't believe Nokia is so dead-set against the game angle.16:52
lcukno, managed to get lb running in copenhagen16:52
GAN800The hardware is more than capable enough.16:53
lcukgan, x11 is a game engine - it just depends on what kind of games you want to play16:53
RST38hGAN: Not their intended usage scenario16:53
GAN800But they seem to want to be incredibly idiotic and shortsighted about it.16:53
* VDVsx sends his ninjas to steal konttori__ device16:53
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konttori__GAN800: what do you mean?16:53
RST38hIn fact, their usage scenarios seem to be limited by that 5800 ad16:53
GAN800"It's not for games, so we're going to make it as difficult as possible to use them."16:53
RST38hCall, make pictures, listen to music, find way, browse the web.16:54
konttori__ah, well, that does not happen in fremantle.16:54
lcukGAN800, games dont just have to be warcraft and racing - they can be PIM and communications or calculators ;)16:54
GAN800lcuk, higher level. . . .16:54
konttori__you have (afaik) full access to opengl in it16:54
lcukthe palm pre has a wicked game engine16:54
RST38hlcuk: C++ compilers too...16:54
lcukc++ compilers arent the game engine16:54
RST38hreally? =)16:54
RST38hI can compile games with them!16:54
lcuknahhh they just let your code talk16:54
GAN800konttori__, not quite according to recent discussion.16:54
RST38hkonttori: apparently not :)16:55
konttori__lcuk: do you mean flixel?16:55
konttori__GAN800: what recent discussion?16:55
RST38hkonttori: last thing we know, hildon desktop uses clutter which takes ownership of OGL context16:55
RST38hkonttori: so applications cant use OGL16:55
konttori__not a problem afaik16:55
lcukand ontop of that, we dont have full GL anyway16:55
RST38hthat is ok16:56
lcukyeah i know16:56
RST38hOpenGL ES is sufficient16:56
GAN800That's what's nice about current devices, you can pretty much do whatever you wish. Fremantle sounds like it's moving more towards doing only what the silly marketing people envision.16:56
konttori__you just cannot run with full context in a window managed by the compositor16:56
RST38hGAN: Current device also does not share context properly16:56
konttori__also, you can run clutter in a app window.16:56
RST38hGAN: In Chinook/Diablo, the hardware accelerated scaler is not properly shared between desktop and apps16:56
lcukyeah but at the cost of compositing the gl16:56
lcukdoubling the workload16:57
RST38hkonttori: the way I understood it, there is no way to give apps exclusive ownership of the context16:57
lcukand inducing waitstates and arguments over the powervr16:57
GAN800RST38h, speaking more generally than that.16:57
GAN800RST38h, it feels like they're actively working against it.16:57
RST38hGAN: I am sure Fremandtle device will not be different in terms of hackability16:58
konttori__RST38h: well, let's just wait until you get it into your hands.16:58
konttori__you should smile then.16:58
lcuknot at all, it sounds like a perfect use of the clutter system was found and implemented and this is an implementation issue16:58
RST38hkonttori: I haven't smiled at hardware in a long time16:58
RST38hGAN: User experience is a different subject though16:58
lcukon the desktop you have composited windows with gl inside em and no1 blinks an eye16:59
RST38hGAN: Have you seen widget examples?16:59
GAN800RST38h, I'm waiting for something resembling a final UI before I make final judgements.17:00
RST38hGAN: Well, think for yourself: do you think there is still time to completely redo widget layouts?17:00
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GAN800RST38h, we haven't seen the full picture yet and it's hard to draw useful conclusions from only part of one.17:02
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RST38hBecause what they have right now looks like this:
* GAN800 is really goddamn tired of Nokia's endless bullshit, though.17:02
RST38hor this:
GAN800We're open! But we're not. . . . But we're open--not.17:02
RST38hGAN: Well, shouldn't have been this gullible to begin with17:03
lcukRST38h, those are examples out of context17:03
lcukor am i missing the point of examples17:03
RST38hlcuk: If I understand it correctly, they are standard dialogs17:04
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RST38hlcuk: Similarly to what S60 offers17:04
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andre__so what is the exact criticism with the widgets?17:05
* andre__ tries to understand what this is about. or simply another example of "we want the code"?17:05
RST38handre: lots of wasted space and not clear how to use them at the first glance17:05
RST38handre: this is about many different things really17:05
lcuki am hearing it more as "we want the logic behind the code"17:05
andre__ah. okay, i see.17:06
VDVsxandre__, in this case, we have the code :)17:06
RST38handre: I mean, ask wazd to come up with a widget and in 3-4 hours he will come up with something way better than these17:06
lcukRST38h, whats wrong with the size and spacing17:06
RST38hlcuk: Ok, item by item:17:07
lbtandre__: I've seen some great progress in this bug ... hopefully it will continue to a hyperlinked page cf the Qt examples in the report17:07
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RST38hlcuk: 1) The confirmation button occupies a wide empty column all by its own17:07
andre__lbt, "this bug" means? ID?17:07
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* lbt thought this was the widget library bug17:07
RST38hlcuk: 2) For some reason dialog does not reach the top of the screen, although there is no useful stuff shown at the top (it is all smeared)17:07
andre__lbt, ah. yeah. okay :)17:08
* lcuk thanks god for generic back button everywhere17:08
andre__RST38h, 2 **definitely** makes sense in that UI concept I can assure you17:08
mavhcis there no cancel button on screen?17:08
RST38hlcuk: 3) The selection columns are wide, not clearly delimited, and it is not clear what you are supposed to do with them (apparently scroll)17:08
* lcuk wishes he had never asked17:08
GAN800andre__, mostly for me I'm just sick and tired of Nokia. ;)17:09
RST38hlcuk: 4) No cancel button of course :)17:09
lcuki had forgotten about this emotive topic lol17:09
* RST38h isn't being emotional about this, simply stating the obvious17:09
pnkhi there, could somebody help me with scratchbox autotools? i have problem with "make install"17:09
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lcuki know, preaching to the choir - i have a back button everywhere and try not to waste space17:09
andre__1 and 3 are valid points to me. 2 and 4 are part of the concept and from my own testing that concept works17:10
VDVsxRST38h, the cancel button area is the "wasted space" at the top17:10
RST38hVDVsx: Why isn't it labelled "Cancel"?17:10
lcuki wish that was tinted red with a watermarked back button on it17:10
mavhca photo doesn't work then, need a video17:10
RST38hVDVsx: You do not really expect Joe The User figure that out? :)17:10
VDVsxRST38h, new UI, evolution ?17:10
mavhcnot from 1 photo17:10
lcukactually, would that help17:11
RST38hVDVsx: That is not something Joe will appreciate17:11
lcuk"i wish that was tinted red with a watermarked back button on it"17:11
VDVsxRST38h, Yes, I expect17:11
* lcuk ponders17:11
andre__I think that Joe will understand it because it's quite consistent with the rest...17:11
RST38handre: Rest of what? Rest of his Windows running gear? His S60 or WinMo smartphone?17:11
VDVsxRST38h, simple to learn and is a one-time learning thing17:11
andre__RST38h, rest of Fremantle UI17:12
pnkguys please, I need help ;)17:12
mavhcthe real problem is only half the information is released, 0 or 90% would be better17:12
RST38handre: Joe may just hate that wholesale17:12
andre__RST38h, then Joe is not forced to buy it17:12
VDVsxpnk, just ask :)17:12
RST38handre: THAT is going to be the problem for the seller :)17:12
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andre__to me the UI more or less works. it has some flaws, but i was surprised how quickly i got along with it17:13
mavhcwhat mobile device has a UI like the rest of the user's computers?17:13
andre__the design decisions... well. that's another discussion17:13
RST38handre: Anyways, let us say Joe buys into this weird concept (wasting 20% of the screen for the huge unlabelled Cancel button)17:13
andre__RST38h, why "waste"?17:13
andre__what would you want to put there? two useless options just for the sake of not having free space?17:13
andre__sounds KDEish :-P17:14
RichiHhow open will the n900 be?17:14
RST38handre: I would like to put more selection lines there17:14
RST38handre: more filenames, more people names, more months/days17:14
RichiHthe GSM part will obviously be closed17:14
andre__RST38h, ah. i see...17:14
RichiHbut the rest?17:14
andre__RST38h, yeah, now i got you. right... :-/17:14
RST38hRichiH: It will not17:14
RST38handre: check out the file selector and see how few filenames it shows at a time17:15
pnki downloaded maemo sdk and wanted to compile some examples, everything is ok (i used scratchbox), but the "make install" command doens't work.. it should install program in some bin folder, souldn't it?17:15
andre__pnk, you've also got a question, or just "need help"? :-D17:15
RST38handre: almost as if Nokia were designing it for a VERTICAL screen :)17:15
andre__RST38h, i definitely agree with that example17:15
RST38hMaybe that is what Nokia is doing btw17:15
VDVsxpnk, try to do a 'make' first17:15
RST38hWith rumored RX-71 being a normal vertically standing phone?17:16
pnkI did it17:16
pnkmake is working17:16
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VDVsxpnk, and what kind of error do you got in the make install ?17:16
pnkmake install say : Nothing to be done for 'install-data-am'17:17
VDVsxpnk, what are you trying to compile ?17:17
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pnksimple hello world example and the program is working (./hello)17:18
pnkbut installing in bin forlder, not17:18
andre__pnk, can you post the last 50 lines or so to and paste the link here?17:18
GAN800RichiH, ofono.org17:18
pnkno problem ;)17:19
RST38hFrom the platform's point of view, GSM baseband chip is basically a modem supporting extended AT command set17:19
VDVsxpnk, probably the makefile of the simple hello world example don't have a install command :P17:20
RST38hWhatever is behind this command set will not be available to programmers, but the state machine for making calls, etc. will be implemented in the open sourced oFono17:20
RichiHRST38h: so i will not be able to change the image?17:20
RST38h(in fact you can see it being implemented if you look at oFono sources)17:20
RST38hImage of what?17:20
RST38hBaseband chip firmware? Probably not.17:20
RichiHoh, wait17:20
RichiHRST38h: do you mean the n900 will have open gsm?17:20
RST38hIt will have an open source state machine for making calls17:21
RST38hSending receiving SMSes too, because these services are also available as AT commands17:21
lcukcalls :O17:22
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pnkVDVsx, i know how to add commands to Makefile, but I don't know how to do it when I'm using Autotools17:24
pnkVDVsx, because Makefile is generated by Makefile.am17:25
VDVsxpnk, everything seems ok with the make install command17:25
GAN800RichiH, about 20/80 closed/open is what they're shooting for. With the majority of the closed stuff being user-experience differentiation.17:27
mavhcwhich means what?17:27
RichiHGAN800: will i be able to apt-get stuff as usual?17:27
pnkVDVsx, so why I can't see installed program?17:27
GAN800RichiH, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc should be open.17:28
GAN800RichiH, of course.17:28
RichiHgood, good17:28
VDVsxpnk, isn't here: /usr/local/bin/lista ?17:28
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GAN800mavhc, statusbar applets, wizards, some applications like Notes, Media Player, etc.17:28
mavhcI like media player, mostly17:29
GAN800We really need to do all we can to upstage the Ovi Store with Extra17:29
GAN800MAFW means Media Player being closed is a lot less of a problem.17:30
pnkVDVsx, can you see it? ::
RST38hGAN: From one point of view it is easy, from another -undoable17:30
VDVsxpnk, try "fakeroot make install"17:31
RST38hGAN: Extras is already way more useful than Ovi Store, really. None of Nokia's download centers for S60 were ever successful (Download!,NGage,Ovi)17:31
GAN800Ovi Store is pathetic. Half the stuff on there seems to be limited to Singapore.17:31
pnkVDVsx, the same :/17:32
RST38hGAN: It is a typical me-too thing, everybody thinks that by making a store they can match iTunes17:32
RST38hGAN: But on the other hand, Extras cannot be compared to a real online app store17:32
GAN800"I need a flight tracking application. Hey, here's one! Er . . . for Singapore only?"17:32
RST38hGAN: You have no way to pay for applications. They are not presented in any attractive way.17:32
GAN800RST38h, no, of course not.17:32
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RST38hAnd there are no customers too :)17:33
GAN800but if we manage to put together a decent distribution systen bolting on a payment and licensing system shouldn't be too difficult.17:33
GAN800Well, and h-a-m can both be improved by the community.17:34
RST38hYes, but with the current community process I do not see any major overhaul happening, just some minor changes17:35
RST38hLike with the site17:35
GAN800Have you been paying attention to the QA stuff?17:35
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RST38hYes, every now and then, when I see something really weird17:36
parigaudiwhen i connect via wlan to a hostap-based wlan without dhcp (and set the ip manually with ifconfig),17:37
parigaudithere's a popup after a couple sec telling me that it failed to retrieve an ip17:37
parigaudianis there a way to set the ip manually in the gui17:37
parigaudiand avoid that message and dhcp attempt?17:38
RST38hGAN: To me, it looks like the good idea would be to build a semblance of an app-store like on the side, then see if it can be used for the main site17:38
RST38hExcept that I no longer believe any of such work will be used, of course17:38
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* RST38h kills a kitten and offers it to VMS. VMS beeps loudly at the sacrifice17:41
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pnkVDVsx, you figured something out? btw. how can I install my .deb package form disk, because I've made one?17:43
lbtdpkg -i blah.deb17:44
pnklbt, ty :)17:44
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pnkVDVsx, i think I got something, I have a file here: try-1.0/debian/try/usr/bin/lista o_O why here?17:47
pnklbt, something should happen?
lbtit's working17:50
lbthowever it's running what you told it to do17:50
lbtps -ef may give you postinst17:50
lbtor some other script17:50
pnkso if I want to install .deb on other pc, will it work?17:51
pnkor should I use "make dist" ? some difference? ;/17:53
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lcukRST38h, is there a bug about the back button thingy18:00
GAN800RST38h, always the defeatist. . . .18:01
lcuknot a defeatist, asking a question
lcukyou just stop so many arguments by just puttin it back for the people who expect it, and then when they discover it also does it when you just click off, its an "oh wow" moment18:02
lcukno training required18:02
RST38hlcuk: I don't think so, isn't it too early for Fremantle bugs to be filed?18:06
lcuki dunno18:06
RST38hGAN: And rarely missing one, mind you =)18:06
lcuki tried looking but got lost in the bugzilla advanced search18:07
RST38hlcuk: A moment18:07
RST38hlcuk: There does not appear to be a bug for this18:09
RST38hFound some reference by Quim to Yes/No buttons in Fremantle dialogs though18:09
lcukis it an enchancement request tho?18:10
* lcuk has other battles right now tho18:11
RST38hthere was a bug about nonsensical OK/Cancel buttons in Diablo18:11
RST38hQuim said that fremantle wont' have ok/cancel18:11
Stskeepsand when trying it, it makes a lot of sense..18:11
RST38hbug was labelled as enhancement too18:12
Stskeepsbut it's a religious manner18:12
RST38hSts: Cancel buttons? Not really18:12
StskeepsRST38h: when you try it on actual device it makes a lot of sense18:12
Stskeepsyou should have come to cph18:12
Stskeepsanyway, i have better things to do18:13
* RST38h is going for a stroll18:14
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VDVsxpnk, sorry, I had to leave18:21
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andre__RST38h, it is *never* too early for Fremantle bugs to be filed. The later, the less you can change stuff in a project18:55
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andre__RST38h, "OK/Cancel" buttons: is *not* in enhancement state... which bug ID do you refer to?18:55
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konttori__lol. please, do file the bugs about fremantle.18:59
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RST38handre: I think it was initially labelled enhancement, then Quim changed it to bug19:04
RST38handre: See his last comment to this bug19:04
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RST38hkonttori: Well, I can try filing a few "bugs" on the current UI layout19:05
RST38hJust not sure anyone will heed these19:05
* AFBN810 is happy someone saw his N810 and knew what it was19:07
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andre__RST38h, well, i will look at them :)19:15
andre__damn... that's probably not an argument at all to convince you :-P19:16
RST38handre: You probably know that I have had pretty bad experience getting bug reports addressed....19:18
andre__yes, i do know :-/19:18
andre__and i can understand any frustration when it comes to, really19:18
andre__past was evil. but there's future out there19:19
* RST38h quotes an appropriate Murphy's law19:20
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* RST38h has hit the page self-modification bug. Well known, but real hairy to fix19:34
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wazd_n800hello maemo20:12
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slonopotamusmaemo's sleeping20:16
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RST38hmoo wazd20:22
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RST38hHe multiplies!20:22
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wazdRST38h, I already have an army of me :)20:23
wazdwazd_, hey!)20:24
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wazd_if you hold'n'drag users list in xchat in maemo, you can see crazy effects20:24
wazd_wazd, :P20:25
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wazd_especially if you put cursor over chat scrollbar while dragging20:25
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wazdhippie incoming :)20:26
RST38hwazd: and the blog post is here:
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wazdI'm thru crappy gprs in the middle of nowhere now, is it an interface builder for maemo or something?)20:32
Stskeepsc++ api for maemo20:33
wazdStskeeps, ah, nothing to see here then, move along :)20:34
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, ping20:36
RST38hwazd: screenshots of fremantle ui dialogs20:37
wazdRST38h, oh, that's a good stuff, thanks!20:39
RST38hwazd: you may get different opinion once you see them...20:39
wazdRST38h, oh, are they that bad?(20:40
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wazdmy evil clone has returned to the ether world ))20:41
VDVsxRST38h, let's put a poll in tmo, about replacing the maemo designers by wazd :P20:41
VDVsxjust kidding :P20:41
RST38hVDVsx: will come out badly for maemo designers...20:42
VDVsxRST38h, I know20:42
VDVsxbut this will lead to a big flame thread, we don't need more now :(20:43
* VDVsx likes wazd mockups20:44
wazdWell, it would be uber great to work with maemo team, but I'm not sure that a guy from russia without any grades in that stuff really mean something for nokia =))20:44
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wazdso I'd better keep up helping community with design =)20:45
wazdVDVsx, glad to hear it :)20:45
RST38h[walk time]20:45
mavhcdesign by screenshots often fails, people who type out their reasoning to go with them do better20:45
wazdRST38h, is it that hot in moscow as in my train?20:46
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wazdmavhc, I thought that it's better to draw your POV in some of design related things than to try to describe it in words20:48
VDVsxwazd, this is a problem in 'all' big company's, there are very talented guys out there, they simple don't hire this guys because the lack of a degree :(20:48
wazdVDVsx: well, I can't get a degree in this sphere of design in russia anyway)20:49
wazdVDVsx, so it's just mmy bad luck)20:50
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wazdVDVsx, and studying abroad is very expensive for me20:51
wazdso I need to make lots of money with some other stuff, then go abroad, get a degree there and then came back to Nokia =)20:53
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Stskeepsor since you know your shit already, skip the studies, get a shitload of money? ;)20:55
wazdstskeeps: no grade - no shitload of money =)20:57
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Stskeepswazd: true20:59
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VDVsx_wazd, or... you can turn yourself in your own boss, and do contracted work for nokia :P21:02
wazdVDVsx, that's really hard stuff, considering secrecy grade of developement :)21:03
wazdVDVsx, they have leaks even in their own offices, I doubt they will trust me that much21:04
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VDVsx_wazd, true for design stuff, is very unlikely a company like nokia do it externally21:05
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Jaffaevening, all21:07
VDVsx_wazd, but a lot of IT company's, usually outsource the design stuff to design company's21:07
VDVsx_morning Jaffa :)21:07
wazdjaffa: heya21:07
Stskeepsevening jaffa21:08
JaffaStskeeps: hope your exam went OK yesterday21:08
StskeepsJaffa: passed with one point above passing, so i'm happy21:08
wazdVDVsx, well, to have the uniqe face of your product, it's better to have own  one21:08
Stskeeps(linear algebra isn't my best side when the exam could fuck up my life .. :)21:08
lbtHi Jaffa21:09
mavhcwazd: I mean do both, and have video too21:10
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wazdmavhc, well, that's what I'm trying to do :)21:11
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wazdmavhc, better not video, but flash emulation or sometng21:12
wazdmavhc, to make something really interactive21:13
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wazddamn, 2 hours in a train are really annoying21:16
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wazdbut #maemo conversations always make em short =)21:17
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johnsqslonopotamus: here howto use qemu user with gentoo , i hope my english is understandable21:21
slonopotamusjohnsq, don't worry, i'm not english-native either :)21:21
slonopotamus[ -e /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/arm ] || echo ":arm:M::\x7fELF\x01\x01\x01\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x02\x00\x28\x00:\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\x00\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xfe\xff\xff\xff:/usr/bin/qemu-wrapper:" > /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/register21:24
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johnsqno magic, just look if the binfmt rule already exists, then the target und the file header of arm bin files. and which program to execute21:25
slonopotamusjohnsq, your color scheme... is kinda unsusal :)21:25
infobotslonopotamus meant: johnsq, your color scheme... is kinda unusual :)21:26
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johnsqcool bot, helps non vi or csh users21:26
GAN800VDVsx_, pong?21:26
johnsqslonopotamus: qemu-arm uses the wrong cpu, I haven't found a way to configure the correct default cpu type, than the wrapper isn't needed.21:29
suihkulokkijohnsq: which qemu version do you use?21:30
johnsqsuihkulokki: latest gentoo Latest version available: 0.10.521:31
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Luke-Jrslonopotamus: I published that? XD21:33
Luke-Jroh, johnsq did it too21:34
Luke-Jralmost the same lol21:34
slonopotamusluke-jr, what that?21:34
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: qemu wrapper thing21:34
slonopotamusluke-jr, i asked you but you didn't21:34
Luke-Jrit was simpler back then I thought21:34
Luke-Jrhow does  johnsq's version work? O.o21:35
Luke-Jrit uses a host bin21:35
Luke-JrI wrote my wrapper in C since my chroot is mostly pure21:35
Luke-Jronly qemu+wrapper are native21:35
johnsqstatic shell+qemu21:35
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johnsqI was to lazy, to write a c wrapper.21:36
Luke-Jr <-- mine21:37
ds3johnsq: isn't that echo a bash only echo?21:37
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johnsqds3: shouldn't only -e is different21:38
johnsqif the quotes are bash only, i don't know21:38
johnsqdash didn't support \x??21:39
johnsqbut bash also not, i think the \xff are handled in the kernel21:41
ds3thought it was the echo command that did it21:42
ds3but anyways, thanks - I can think of many other uses for that21:42
ds3be interesting to try to do the reverse... setup it up so the N8x0 can run x86 stuff in a chroot environment21:43
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slonopotamusoh my21:45
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johnsqds3: you must wait some years, than the mobils have enough power.21:46
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slonopotamusds3, but why? arm binaries are much more optimized21:51
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jophishis there any simple way to forward touch on an n810 to a desktop computer21:52
jophishto use as a touchpad for example21:52
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johnsqjophish: yes, bluetooth mouse emulation21:53
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jophishok, thanks21:54
johnsqjophish: quick and dirty x2x with any network connection21:54
VDVsxjophish, try bluemaemo :)21:56
jophishthanks very much21:56
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johnsqslonopotamus: the cx3110x ebuild says the file size didn't match21:58
johnsqslonopotamus: 79068 Jun 18  2008 cx3110x-module-src_2.0.15-1.tar21:59
slonopotamusjohnsq, hmm...21:59
slonopotamus-rw-rw-r-- 1 portage portage 84062 Дек 16 23:52 /usr/portage/distfiles/cx3110x-module-src_2.0.15-1.tar.gz22:00
slonopotamuswhere downloaded from?22:00
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johnsqslonopotamus: http://luke.dashjr.org22:02
slonopotamusluke-jr, ^22:03
slonopotamusjohnsq says your cx3110x mirror is broken22:04
Luke-Jrlet's blame Stskeeps22:04
johnsqetched file: cx3110x-module-src_2.0.15-1.tar.gz VERIFY FAILED!22:04
slonopotamusi have it locally22:04
slonopotamusits bigger22:04
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slonopotamusmay upload22:04
johnsqslonopotamus: your version is wrong22:05
johnsq>>> Downloading '
Luke-Jrcx3110x-module-src_2.0.15-1.tar.gz                              18.06.2008 08:58   7906822:05
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: like I said, let's blame Stskeeps22:05
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: yours came from Mer's (now down) repo22:05
Luke-Jrfixing ebuild to NOT use that now22:06
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slonopotamusi wonder what differs22:06
* Luke-Jr also22:06
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Luke-Jrbut I have successfully built the Maemo-repo copy22:06
slonopotamusyou couldn't22:06
slonopotamusyou should get digest mismatch22:07
ds3johnsq: the OMAP3's might come close22:07
Luke-Jrpushed a change22:07
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: oh, interesting22:07
ds3as for why... there was this pesky legacy device called the HP200LX...22:07
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: it built somehow...22:08
ds3while this may not do dos emulation.. it is a step in that direction... almost like a synthesized 386 version of it22:08
johnsqyes when then everybody writes small and quick application, it whould be fine22:08
slonopotamusluke-jr, but you couldn't. unless you used ebuild digest --force22:08
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: can you copy your cx3110x somewhere?22:09
Luke-Jrthe src22:09
Luke-JrI want to diff it22:09
RST38hSri Lankan troops did not find any cyanide capsule on the LTTE leader's body after he was killed during the final phase of the 30-year-old civil war, while they recovered cyanide pills from many of the LTTE cadres and leaders killed in the military campaign.22:09
slonopotamus1 min22:09
ds3RST38h: maybe he took it? ;)22:10
RST38hds3: No, got shot.22:11
slonopotamusjohnsq, luke-jr updated digest. layman -S and retry22:13
johnsqlayman -S and it goes on22:13
jophishrats, having trouble installing bluemaemo22:14
slonopotamusstskeeps, changing tarballs is the biggest evil22:14
Luke-Jrjophish: it will probably fail22:14
Luke-JrMer actually modified it22:14
jophishits some libs, under the wrong names22:15
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jophishfor example libeida spears missing, only because it is called
jophishcreating a simlink to works22:16
jophishbut there are other libs too22:16
jophishlike libedva22:16
johnsqjophish: forgot ldconfig?22:16
VDVsxjophish, are you using the .deb package ?22:17
jophishjust from the app manager22:17
VDVsxI installed it yesterday and worked fine22:17
jophishhmm, I dont seem to ahve ldconfig22:18
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VDVsxjophish, probably the Python-efl update broke some packages :(22:18
Luke-Jrjohnsq: slonopotamus: sorry, fixing this will take some time22:19
Luke-JrStskeeps apparently patched up his cx3110x without increasing version on it22:19
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Stskeepsand gentoo-n8x0 is leeching off the bw on my server22:19
slonopotamusluke-jr, well... which one is better? :)22:19
jophishwhat repository would I find ldconfig in?22:20
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Luke-Jrslonopotamus: Stskeeps added WEP/WPA or something like that22:20
Luke-JrStskeeps: can you at least tell me what the changes did? XD22:20
StskeepsLuke-Jr: magic22:21
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Luke-JrStskeeps: WEP or WPA or both? anything else?22:21
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slonopotamusStskeeps, regardless of that, changing tarballs is bad practice :)22:22
Stskeepsslonopotamus: yeah, i admitted this already22:23
Luke-JrStskeeps: …22:24
VDVsxjophish, you have extras-devel repo enabled ?22:24
jophishah, that's it22:25
Luke-JrStskeeps: or was cx3110x's WPA support non-standard and you standardized it?22:25
slonopotamusjohnsq, you'll have to rebuild cx3110x after we figure out thing thing, i guess.22:25
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slonopotamuss/ out thing/ out this/22:25
infobotslonopotamus meant: johnsq, you'll have to rebuild cx3110x after we figure out this thing, i guess.22:25
johnsqslonopotamus: i fighting with the kernel, i must first configure and compile it22:26
Luke-Jrjohnsq: in the meantime, bin pkg =
Luke-Jrjohnsq: if you're going to use a new kernel, you can't use cx3110x anyway22:26
slonopotamusjohnsq, whst kernel? diablo?22:26
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Luke-Jrslonopotamus: btw, vanilla doesn't have N810 support at least22:27
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: missing some platform files22:27
johnsqslonopotamus: diablo are the only source which i have on the sdhc card22:27
slonopotamusjohnsq, use /usr/src/linux-2.6.21-diablo/arch/arm/configs/nokia_2420_defconfig22:28
slonopotamusthat's stock maemo config22:28
* slonopotamus needs to document it better22:29
slonopotamusbuilding of cx3110x22:29
johnsqslonopotamus: i made make n800_defconfig22:29
johnsqslonopotamus: patch failed, seems only to work if your version?22:30
slonopotamusjohnsq, cx3110x?22:31
slonopotamusluke-jr, maybe you just put old file to your mirror?22:31
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: I'm going to fix this.22:31
slonopotamusluke-jr, okay22:31
johnsqslonopotamus: yes, i skip this part22:31
slonopotamusjohnsq, well... looks like cx3110x broke a bit :)22:32
johnsqmerging (1 of 4)22:33
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Stskeepsarchos 9 tablet, 3 hour battery time22:48
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RST38h...a demolition crew in Georgia has managed to accidentally destroy an entirely wrong house based on GPS coordinates...22:50
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Luke-Jrjohnsq: slonopotamus: cx3110x fixed up22:52
Luke-JrUSE=we-18 to get WE-18 (Linux WPA) patch included22:53
Luke-Jrkdelibs is rebuilding atm, so I can't test22:53
Luke-Jrthat, plus my testing is only compile now since I use stlc45xx22:53
* Stskeeps builds a package on his n810 for first time ever..22:53
johnsqLuke-Jr: I currently compile glib will take some time.22:54
Luke-JrStskeeps: I found a deblet-cx3110x.patch on tspre trac22:55
Stskeepsah, yeah, that's one22:55
Luke-Jrthat's the only one ;)22:55
* Luke-Jr wonders if we support N77022:56
Luke-Jr(Linux code sayz 770 has the N, so there)22:56
slonopotamusno N22:58
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: Linux code sez N22:58
slonopotamusnokia says no N:)22:59
Luke-JrNokia wrote Linux code that says N23:00
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kkrustyerr there was a thing that was about to be released soon for maemo, the name of which I've forgotten23:12
kkrustysomething that was supposed to fix all the issues related to the packages in maemo23:12
kkrustyand there was a website for it too. Someone mentioned it here23:13
Luke-Jrthat was a dream, kkrusty23:13
kkrustyI havent used irc in a dream so far Luke-Jr23:13
Luke-Jrkkrusty: there's always a first23:13
Stskeepskkrusty: ?23:14
kkrustyStskeeps: you are the man!23:14
kkrustyMer is such a forgettable name23:14
StskeepsMaEmo Reconstructed23:15
Luke-JrStskeeps: Mer is going to solve ALL the issues related to ALL the packages in Maemo?23:15
kkrustyLuke-Jr The sentence was intentionally vague23:15
StskeepsLuke-Jr: alcohol does that too23:15
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Luke-Jrkkrusty: well, that was my basis for judging it a dream23:15
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wazd <- oh my god23:17
VDVsxwazd, we told you :P23:18
Stskeepswazd: it can only be better than the old one.23:18
wazdwhy not just make large calendar?)23:19
kkrustymer will work on n800?23:19
wazdkkrusty: it does now :)23:20
Stskeepskkrusty: yes23:20
Stskeepsfor varying degrees of working23:20
kkrustycool. Well I need my tablet to work for the coming weeks. I'll probably try Mer next month23:21
kkrustythe screenshots look nice though23:21
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Stskeepson /Mer/Releases/0.13?23:23
kkrustyStskeeps: yep23:23
Stskeepsswear to god, how many buffer overflows are there in this dsp loader..23:23
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jophishI'm still not able to get bluemaemo to work23:38
jophishcan't seem to find ldconfig either23:38
johnsqjophish: ldconfig as root in terminal?23:39
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jophishcommand not found23:39
jophishcane apt get it either23:39
johnsqjophish: sorry haven't used debian the last years. there is some command to find to which package it belongs.23:41
JaffaCatch up on tmo, or sleep? Tricky23:41
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Stskeepsi'm fixing DSP loader buffer overflows undiscovered since 77023:41
Stskeepsmuch fun23:42
jophishI thought it was in glibc23:42
johnsqjophish: gentoo has it there sys-libs/glibc-2.10.123:42
johnsqjophish: /sbin/ldconfig23:43
jophishunfourtunatly, I can't install glibc23:43
johnsqjophish: busybox?23:44
jophishmight be23:45
JaffaNice target for Mer: (450-500eur is remarkably cheap, too)23:45
jophishnot in there I'm afraid23:45
StskeepsJaffa: and 3 hour battery time23:45
johnsqtoo short23:45
JaffaStskeeps: true23:45
JaffaLooks similar to the original Samsung Q1 :-/23:46
StskeepsJaffa: if it was arm we could easily spice that up but x86..23:48
JaffaRST38h: Read the stuff about the Pre's Linux-based OS and the unsigned firmware stuff... Nothing we shouldn't also expect with the RX-51, but I suspect Palm'll get a bit more press for it :-/23:50
wazdI guess this pops up when you type something while search?23:51
StskeepsJaffa: i think it is because it was 100% unexpected23:51
jophishstskeeps, on maemo, how can I get ldconfig?23:51
JaffaStskeeps: True. But a "yeah, we can do that" never gets the same press :-/23:51
jophishusually in glibc23:51
jophishwhich I can't seem to fing]23:52
* Jaffa was really impressed by the maemomm docs they've done. Best Maemo tutorial I've seen (and I dislike C++)23:52
johnsqjophish: check the apt-sources23:52
jophishthis seems to be one of those things where the solution brings in a whole lot more problems23:54
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Luke-JrJaffa: the biggest problem with C++ is the crappy GNU compiler23:54
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Jaffawazd: Or, rather,
johnsqLuke-Jr: no c++ is also a problem with microsoft compiler, its slow compiling and running23:55
Luke-Jrjohnsq: Microsoft's compiler is irrelevant to me23:55
Luke-JrI didn't say I knew of a good implementation, just that GNU's sucks23:56
JaffaThe language is overcomplicated, and over-engineered in trying to keep compatible with existing C programs. Which just isn't necessary as long as the calling conventions at an ABI level were compatible & deterministic23:56
Luke-Jrthere's no excuse for C++ to take significantly longer to compile than C23:56
Luke-Jror run23:56
Summelithe quality/prize factor is good with GNU :)23:56
* johnsq isn't a c++ fan23:56
* Luke-Jr ponders writing a proof of concept C++ to C compiler23:57
JaffaLuke-Jr: i.e. cfront23:57
RST38hC++ is over engineered in trying to be compatible with C?23:57
kkrustyLuke-Jr like C front?23:58
JaffaRST38h: Too separate statements.23:58
infobotJaffa meant: RST38h: Two separate statements.23:58
Proteous2275 S Mcdowell Blvd Ext23:58
ProteousIT"S TRUE!23:58
RST38hJaffa: You had it in one statement =)23:58
Proteousc is for n00bs23:58
Proteousc++ is what all the cool kids use23:58
Luke-Jrkkrusty: does C front support modern C++?23:58
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kkrustyLuke-Jr nope23:59
Luke-Jrkkrusty: exactly :þ23:59
JaffaRST38h: Oh, yes. I had over-complicated and over-engineered in two separate statements. Sorry.23:59
kkrustyLuke-Jr but you wouldnt want it to.23:59
* RST38h can shit all over C++ if needed, but that certainly was a novel approach to C++ critique =)23:59
Luke-Jrkkrusty: if I did this, I would have as my goal KDE compiled as C23:59
kkrustyLuke-Jr: why do you need to compile KDE as C?23:59
JaffaRST38h: Yes, and it's over-engineered as the original goal of being able to compile C programs with a C++ compiler was a) unnecessary, b) doomed to failure and c) failed.23:59

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