IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-05-26

CutMeOwnThroatkfx, well, he asked upstream about that...00:00
sanjay6976on installing Qt over maemo 4.1.2 my qmake is not working in ARMEL00:00
CutMeOwnThroatkfx, and got a "I dunno, but I guess it's ok" back and none of the guys who knew contradicted00:00
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sanjay6976any idea00:01
johnxback in a sec00:01
lbtsanjay6976: "not working"... blue smoke?00:01
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CutMeOwnThroatkfx, and so he went ahead... what more do you expect of a maintainer?00:02
kfxCutMeOwnThroat: I expect him not to mess with things he doesn't understand00:02
CutMeOwnThroatkfx, that's why he asked before he messed with it...00:03
kfx...and didn't get a reliable answer, and charged on00:03
CutMeOwnThroata maintainer can't know the code as well as the authors00:03
kfxanyway that's one instance which represents the whole of the Debian Failosophy00:03
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kfxmy job got far easier when I moved critical services to slackware hosts00:04
CutMeOwnThroatkfx, he got an "ok" on a list that was read by all the people who should have known and none of them flinched...00:04
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CutMeOwnThroatkind of a peer-reviewed answer00:04
kfxI've spent the last week trying to figure out exactly how they wrecked grub so it fails on poweredge r805s, and the week before working out what they did to ocfs200:04
sanjay6976lbt:: on running qmake it gives me "mmap: No such device or address'00:04
kfxCutMeOwnThroat: he got an "okay for debugging" response iirc, not a "ship that code"00:05
lbtah... that's been on the ml recently00:05
kfxbut still, if he has to ask, he's not qualified to make code changes, period00:06
minraflapping castles00:06
mavhcall problems are caused by lack of information dissemination00:06
lbtsanjay6976: and it was you asking...00:06
CutMeOwnThroatkfx, only someone how doesn't do anything doesn't make any mistakes - but then he doesn't improve anything either so if they get a 10:1 or 50:1 or 100:1 or even a 1000:1 or whatever rate of improvements:mistakes, there will always be mistakes... doesn't mean that the benefit isn't bigger00:06
lbtI'd guess the wrong qemu ?00:07
* kfx revels in the benefit of a severely reduced pool of encrpytion keys00:07
CutMeOwnThroatyou're childish00:07
sanjay6976what should i set00:07
sanjay6976qemu as00:07
kfxI do this crazy thing called regression testing, in a sandbox lab so my mistakes don't, for instance, get disseminated to every one of my users00:08
sanjay6976this is my setting now "CPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-cvs-m"00:08
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mavhcssl was broken for years too00:08
lbtsanjay6976: sorry... I don't have that up at the moment00:08
CutMeOwnThroatand in that sandbox you'd have noticed that a newly created keys were compromised?00:09
kfxif I patch openssl, I spend days testing everything00:09
sanjay6976does Qt 4.5 works on maemo 4.1.2 ARMEL00:09
kfxautomated tests, of course, but I bet I would have picked up a huge reduction in entropy like that00:09
CutMeOwnThroatmaybe you would, or you wouldn't00:10
kfxthe Debian Way is a particularly sensitive issue for me, since it wouldn't be an exaggeration to say most of my job entails cleaning up after debian/ubuntu packagers00:10
sanjay6976lbt::does Qt 4.5 works on maemo 4.1.2 ARMEL00:10
lbtit should00:10
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lbtI'm on Mer now :)00:11
CutMeOwnThroatwell, so what do you suggest to improve that?00:11
sanjay6976its doin fine on X86 on the same setup but not on ARMEL00:11
CutMeOwnThroatstop adding patches to fix bugs00:11
kfxyes, actually00:11
kfxexactly that00:11
kfxsubmit patches upstream00:11
CutMeOwnThroatthen you can't have debian stable00:12
kfxbut they don't just patch for bugs00:12
CutMeOwnThroatand you don't need a bugtracking system00:12
timeless_mbpCutMeOwnThroat: sounds like a good idea00:12
kfxthey patch functionality, they patch configuration, they patch documentation, etc etc00:12
timeless_mbpyou could work on testing products against shipped stuff00:12
timeless_mbpand report when there are problems00:12
timeless_mbpbut if the newer released software works, you could make it available to your customers00:12
CutMeOwnThroatnot to me, I like the stableness of stable00:13
* timeless_mbp shrugs00:13
timeless_mbpwell, i hope you enjoy 0 entropy00:13
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timeless_mbpbecause it's nice and stable00:13
CutMeOwnThroatyou're also being stable00:13
kfxthe stableness of stable is completely useless when you're running a big install00:13
CutMeOwnThroatsee how mistakes happen :)00:13
timeless_mbpyou didn't ask me for a review00:13
timeless_mbpnot my fault00:13
timeless_mbpStskeeps: is the string i flagged really in mer?00:13
kfxtimeless_mbp: clearly anyone who disagrees with CutMeOwnThroat and/or debian packagers is just being childish00:14
CutMeOwnThroatand actually, afaik bugs do get forwarded to upstream, so do patches00:14
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kfxobviously there is no other way to have a mature, reasoned opinion00:14
CutMeOwnThroatkfx, no, only people who don't use arguments but squibs like that00:14
johnxthe entropy in this channel would be a nice pool to draw from ...00:15
StsN800timeless, network manager00:15
timeless_mbpjohnx: :)00:15
kfxjohnx: it would save us having to wiggle mice00:15
timeless_mbpStsN800: hrm00:15
kfxI'm just going to start piping irclogs to generate keys00:15
johnxI'll do a NMU for ssl/ssh right now then :D00:15
* johnx ducks00:15
CutMeOwnThroatI mean, everytime you run out of real arguments you come up with some joke about that entropy bug... with WAS a kind of worst-case00:15
timeless_mbpwell, i sure hope that wasn't the best case!00:16
StsN800timeless_mbp, but it got cut off oddly in mer 0.600:16
timeless_mbpStsN800: it ended a sentence with a preposition00:16
minrai see a gay allah/santa riding a translucent green hemp bicycle at 40,000 feet spraying anthrax out of his nipples00:16
minramore entropy00:16
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kfxI haven't run out of any real arguments ?:(00:17
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kfx1) debian patches things they don't need to patch00:17
kfx2) they should stop00:17
minrakfx has a point00:17
CutMeOwnThroatyeah? where is it?00:17
minrasome of that is just graffitti00:18
kfx3) there are ways to create stable environments without adding functionality to calendar(1)00:18
timeless_mbpkfx: wtf?00:18
GeneralAntillesThe only reasonable solution is for us to all run abacuses.00:18
kfx4) debian has a terrible, horrible, no-good, very-bad testing apparatus that doesn't take into account many, many variables00:18
CutMeOwnThroatit's called "sid", I think00:19
mavhcwhat are these ways?00:19  debian hot and spicy00:19
sanjay6976any idea of my problem00:19
timeless_mbpsanjay6976: most of us don't spend gobs of time using qt4.5 on armel00:20
CutMeOwnThroatobviously, if nobody felt the patches aren't needed, the things would never get patched00:21
timeless_mbpCutMeOwnThroat: can you try to avoid using negatives?00:21
timeless_mbpyou're doing a terrible job00:21
kfxI can't parse that sentence00:21
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kfxbut I think you're saying the patches they apply are seen as necessary00:22
mavhcwhat are these ways to create stable environments without adding functionality to calendar(1)?00:22
kfxin that case I refer you to calendar(1), which isn't even the most bizarre mangling I've seen debian do00:22
CutMeOwnThroatkfx, time to patch your parser :-P00:22
kfxmavhc: slackware, for one example, does quite nicely00:22
mavhchow does it differ?00:22
kfxapt-get --purge remove brain && apt-get update && apt-get install brain00:23
CutMeOwnThroatouch, that must have hurt00:23
kfxCutMeOwnThroat: I was in the army; I'm used to that procedure00:23
CutMeOwnThroatkfx, I noticed your discussing style :-P00:24
kfxmavhc: once a distro version is released, only security updates are applied.  Patches etc that come out later (the equiv. of -updates and -backports) are placed in /patches, and must be explicitly specified00:24
kfxthe most invasive patches you'll see from slackware involve symlinks for compatibility and one to set the default x11 background to black instead of stippled grey00:24
Corsacbut slackware sucks anyway :)00:25
mavhcthe other question is: who's forcing you to use debian?00:25
kfxhowever, it sucks less than debian00:25
timeless_mbpmavhc: so...00:25
timeless_mbpthe fact that debian manages to hurt the rest of the world00:25
kfxmavhc: I made the terrible mistake of allowing the faculty at the school I work for to select a distro00:26
timeless_mbpis precisely why it isn't simply sufficient to ignore it00:26
kfxall the vms are hosted by slackware installs, but everything they actually interact with is either debian or ubuntu00:26
mavhcafter I paid all that licencing money to debian I can't switch now00:26
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johnxs/#maemo/#distroflamewar/ :)00:27
timeless_mbpmavhc: after someone contributed a stupid patch to debian00:27
timeless_mbpi lost a portion of my keyspace00:27
timeless_mbpthe contribution was free, the cost was priceless00:27
mavhcso switch00:27
kfxmavhc: no, none of those keys are safe for anyone at all to use now00:27
timeless_mbpthe only way to switch is to remove debian from the planet00:27
rm_youor remove the patch, recompile the app, and move on00:27
timeless_mbprm_you: that doesn't work00:27
rm_youoh, right00:28
rm_youyou're talking about, ssh key fiasco?00:28
timeless_mbpworse, everyone else has to install extra code to detect this broken bits00:28
timeless_mbpit's an explanation of why it isn't safe to ignore stupid distros00:28
mavhcif you kill every OS with a security flaw you'll be left flipping switches on a pdp-1100:28
timeless_mbpbecause they really can hurt *everyone*00:28
mavhcyou're ignoring windows00:28
timeless_mbpnot really00:28
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timeless_mbpi'm running windows00:28
Corsacat the moment, you're hurting *us*, so please, give us a break00:28
timeless_mbpStsN800: so...00:29
timeless_mbpMissing resources00:29
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mavhcwindows causes much bigger problems, 50 million zombie computers for a start00:29
timeless_mbp(-) The NetworkManager applet could not find some00:29
rm_youqwerty12_N800: finally applied one of your patches00:29
timeless_mbp    required resources. It cannot continue. [OK]00:29
qwerty12_N800rm_you, yep, got an email :)00:29
rm_younot sure about the other, honestly00:29
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rm_youi mean, the code is super-useful for later, thanks00:30
rm_younot sure i want to do it now tho :p00:30
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qwerty12_N800rm_you, I'll be awaiting your cpl applet :P :)00:30
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timeless_mbpwhat's the current Mer apt thingy?00:31
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timeless_mbpi'm using alpha00:31
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CutMeOwnThroatkfx, pm?00:34
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* timeless_mbp pokes StsN800 00:34
StsN800timeless, we switched to obs so 0.13 from scratch upgrade is needed :/00:35
StsN800opensuse build service00:35
timeless_mbpok, url me?00:36
keesjStsN800: are you at least trying to be CO2 neutral?00:36
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* timeless_mbp kicks BBC for writing "busines"00:40
timeless_mbpjohnx: i don't care about obs, i want a working version of mer00:40
timeless_mbpi want ?00:41
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minrashould users switch to mer?  if so, why?00:42
timeless_mbpminra: because it will get software updates00:43
mavhcif so, when?00:43
kkrustywhat is mer?00:44
Jaffakkrusty: A community-developed Linux distribution based on the best bits of Maemo (incl. Maemo 5) and Ubuntu00:44
kkrustyJaffa: right. but aside from encouraging stuff what else does it accomplish?00:45
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timeless_mbpkkrusty: it'll have bug fixes00:46
minraactively developed software00:46
timeless_mbpin practice, you will not find that in Diablo00:46
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Jaffakkrusty: If you want any bits of Maemo 5 on an existing device, Mer is your best bet.00:47
kkrustyand its out?00:47
JaffaIOW, it's the last best hope for people who like Internet Tablets :-/00:47
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kkrustyJaffa: no kidding. Im actually considering a netbook now00:47
Jaffakkrusty: Mer? It's at 0.13 so probably not ready yet for *very* end-users, but it's a non-destructive install and new releases every 4 weeks.00:48
kkrustyJaffa: cool00:48
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timeless_mbphow do i mount a hard drive in Mer?01:04
lcukhow do you install a harddrive into your tablet?01:04
timeless_mbpVirtualBox Media Manager01:04
qwerty12_N800usb host & enclosure? :>01:04
lcukheh ahhh images.  i dunno then01:04
timeless_mbpit's actually drag and drop capable01:04
* lcuk empties sand onto the chanfloor01:05
timeless_mbpmount /dev/sdb1 /media/old01:05
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* GeneralAntilles sighs again.01:09
kfxCutMeOwnThroat: pm me any time01:10
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I'd recommend just lifting the S60 5th finger keyboard wholesale.01:10
GeneralAntillesThe virtual arrow buttons work really well.01:10
timeless_mbpStskeeps: so, i have two XTerminal windows01:12
timeless_mbpin mer0.1301:12
timeless_mbpif i click on the xterm icon at the top01:12
timeless_mbpi get a menu that appears under my "finger"01:12
timeless_mbpif i click the perl then i get a menu that appears safely not under my "finger"01:12
* timeless_mbp frowns01:13
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johnxtimeless_mbp: yup, appears to be problem with placement in the icon menu placement. seeing it here too01:14
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lardman|tvnight all01:17
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Macerjust finished downloading like 40 more wii games01:22
mavhcfirst person to turn their n900 into a wii controller wins01:23
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mavhchas anyone considered connecting these usb monitors to a tablet, now there are linux drivers?01:24
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lcukpvanhoof, you around01:24
Jaffamavhc: It's been mentioned somewhere, I believe.01:24
JaffaPerhaps in the USB VGA thread on tmo?01:24
qwerty12_N800Macer, bah, i've only done 4 :/01:24
acydlordyou guys seen this yet?
lcukmavhc, its more than just sending out the accel data surely01:25
johnxacydlord: yup, it's been the topic for the last day or so :)01:26
johnxmobilecrunch had the scoop yesterday it looks like01:26
pvanhooflcuk, yes01:27
acydlordtoo bad i'm not gonna be in the financial situation to afford a new NIT for awhile :(01:27
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Bobbeacydlord, there's a huge thread on itt on it. It seems the smaller screen made was quite depressing for a lot of people01:28
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acydlordi havent checked itt in awhile, i should probably catch up01:29
Macerqwerty12_N800: 4?01:30
Macerwii games? :)01:30
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Maceri've gone on a wii game binge01:30
qwerty12_N800Macer, yep. My connection is shit :p01:30
BobbeMacer, have you seen this?
rm_youjohnx: add_poi about done, starting on get_poi, going to dump an XML thing for you, that sound good? or would you rather just have CSV?01:31
johnxrm_you: are you using the jabber xml thing?01:32
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rm_youjohnx: still just my DB for now01:32
johnxotherwise you might as well just use csv01:32
rm_youi don't know how jabber works01:32
johnxrm_you: it's just a format thing. I don't care about the jabber protocol01:32
rm_youdunno which is easier for you to parse through01:32
rm_youdo you have a link to the RFC?01:32
Macersuckend life! hahahah01:32
MacerBobbe: oh man that crap was funny01:33
rm_youjohnx: ok i can prolly do this... of course we will be ignoring many fields01:33
johnxbasically it's just a matter with lining up to their terms or having terms/variables that are synomnyms for one of theirs01:33
johnxof course01:33
BobbeMacer, lmao every time I see it01:33
rm_youwe're good01:34
BobbeMacer, the part the girl swallows just kills me01:34
MacerBobbe: yeah that was pretty good :)01:34
rm_youand text / timestamp01:34
rm_youyes lcuk :P01:34
rm_youand uri for image?01:34
rm_youoh, not text... description01:34
rm_youbut yeah, k.01:34
rm_youanyone know about XML spec, if i can just leave out those fields and have it be compatible, or do i have to make them and have them blank?01:35
rm_youthe fields i don't use01:35
johnxyup, should line up with using jabber as a data source or sink in the future01:35
MacerBobbe: yeah :-D01:35
rm_youkk will do that out01:35
johnxrm_you: there are examples on the page I linked01:36
acydlordmy girlfriend managed to halt production of my geolocation project of 3 years :(01:36
acydlordat least till i can afford a new gps unit01:36
lcukwhat, she found you?01:36
rm_youjohnx: oh ok will read more, i just went straight to the data spec01:36
rm_youoh, she break your gps? :P01:36
johnxrm_you: 4.1 Entity publishes location via PEP01:36
lcukshe ran away with it01:36
lcukand hid it01:36
acydlordshe broke one of them01:37
acydlordand the other fell in the lake01:37
lcukat least you know where the lake is01:37
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acydlordyes, and i also now know that the part of the lake it fell in is 160ft deep01:38
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lcuksee, altitude is important01:39
rm_youi suppose renting scuba gear is more expensive than the GPS unit :P01:39
lcukjust make sure it can do -ve values01:39
lcukacydlord, without gps local folks would just say "aye, tis a bottomless pit"   now thanks to your clever work, you know its 160ft deep01:40
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Bobbethat's sure to make him feel better lcuk01:41
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Bobbeacydlord, how much to get a new gps?01:41
acydlordi think 80 for the better of the units i had01:42
lcukmaybe spend a bit more and get an inflatable unbreakable one ;)01:42
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Bobbeit's not that much, is it? I mean i live in Brazil, have no idea how much is expensive for a gps unit01:43
acydlordi'm gonna get a couple otter boxes01:43
acydlordnah, 80 isnt bad01:43
Bobbeyeap, especially depending on how willing your gf is willing to make up to ya01:44
Bobbemight actually be worth the replacemente/bother01:44
acydlordhaha, she has no job at the moment01:44
BobbeI didn't mean money man. Work with me here ;)01:44
acydlordi'm gonna see if ASU will tack another one onto my research project01:44
acydlordsince they funded me for the purchase of about 300 routers =x01:44
Bobbewoah. Why did you need 300 routers?01:45
rm_youprobably for some heavy duty routing :)01:45
Bobbeyou don't saaaaaaaaay lol01:45
Bobbe -> how bizarre must it be to type on one of those01:46
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johnxI think I got to hold one at one point01:46
johnxit's only marginally weird01:46
acydlordbuilding a giant wireless mesh with solar routers01:46
* Jaffa sold his UX50 Clie a month or so ago01:46
JaffaMy only PalmOS device. No multitasking: major suckage. Regular crashing: major suckage.01:47
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JaffaNice small form factor, though01:47
Bobbethis guy was running mac os 10 on it. Freaking FAST01:47
rm_youacydlord: you somewhere that actually gets sun, i hope? :P01:47
acydlordyeah, arizona01:47
Bobbeyeap, sun enough there01:48
acydlordyup, which is why we have one of the worlds largest solar test facilities01:48
johnxBobbe: different sony handheld :)01:48
rm_yousounds like a cool project then. how much does a solar powered router run you? $$$01:48
mavhcodd that noone's yet asked why your gf hid your gps01:48
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johnxprobably a vaio ux50, not a PEG-UX5001:49
acydlordshe broke it01:49
acydlordran it over01:49
Bobbejohnx, is there more than one model with the same number?01:49
acydlordand the other i dropped in the lake01:49
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Bobbeah, ok01:49
johnxthat PEG-UX50 probably wouldn't really run linux01:49
johnxlet alone mac os x01:50
Bobbeindeed, a different model01:50
Bobbelooks a lot cooler, though the kb keys are like 10% of my finger size, probably01:51
johnxhaha, i like all the cuts in the video as he boots01:51
Bobbeand the apple MAGICALLY APPEARS! lol01:52
Bobbeacydlord, sorry to insist, but how did she run over your gps? It just happened to be on the garage floor?01:53
acydlordprobably fell out of the car, its one of the small units you pair to a computer or what have you01:54
Bobbetoo bad man01:56
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GAN8001We just gotta co-opt away from Nokia for Mer.02:03
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johnxGAN8001: is controlled by the community02:03
Macersound the trumpets02:04
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johnxanyways, if the majority of the info on is about mer stuff it will just kind of happen on its own02:04
GAN8001johnx, right, which is why we're migrating it all to Mer. ;)02:04
johnxuntil that point, maemo has a place I think :)02:04
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johnxeventually, instead of we'll have :)02:05
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GAN8001I wish Nokia would just make a goddamn announcement already.02:05
GAN8001I'm tired of changing my device expectations with each new tidbit.02:05
GAN8001I want it settled one way or the other.02:05
Macerwow. there really aren't that many good movies are there?02:06
Maceri think i have like 50 movies.. and i've been lookign for something good and they all suck02:06
BobbeGAN8001, it feels they're just as confused as us02:06
lcukwhy dont you try getting movies from the 50s02:06
GAN8001Macer, nah, you're just looking in the wrong place.02:06
MacerGAN8001: the wrong place? :)02:07
GAN8001Macer, i.e., genre, time period, whatever.02:07
BobbeMacer, name your top 3 kick-assest movies ever02:07
Macerhm. fight club. snatch. 5th element02:07
mavhcpeople who hated this movie might also hate...02:07
Bobbe5th element?02:07
GAN8001Seen 12 Angry Men?02:07
Maceroh yeah. i love 5th element :)02:07
Bobbelol mavhc02:07
BobbeSnatch and Fight Club are in my top three too02:08
mavhche likes movies with numbers in the title?02:08
mavhclock stock good, snatch boring02:08
Macersnatch was probably the most funny thing i have every seen02:08
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Macerthose 3 black dudes had me in tears02:08
Bobbethe fatzo guy who saves their asses all the time02:09
Macerlock stock was boring :)02:09
mavhcmaybe I just watched it when I was asleep, because it sent me to sleep02:09
MacerBobbe: yah :-D02:09
Macerthat was probably the best part02:09
qwerty12_N800the fat one trying  to get in the car...02:09
GAN8001Macer, how about L4yer Cake?02:09
Macerwhere she takes his gun and shoots at him then sticks him in the security gate02:09
MacerGAN8001: never saw it02:09
GAN8001Do so.02:09
Maceronly good part on lock stock was the part where the girl on the couch comes out of nowhere and just starts letting loose with the machine gun02:10
johnxchocolate was good. only thing I've seen recently02:10
BobbeI wanna watch cgi-loaded films which will add absolutely NOTHING to my life02:10
Bobbelike the transformers sequel or something02:10
lcukterminator looks good02:10
MacerBobbe: i thought that was the latest rambo movie02:10
BobbeMacer, lol02:11
Macerthe last rambo movie was good. same mindless killing and lies from 2 and 302:11
Bobbehow old is stallone now? 75?02:11
Macerlike when john j gets hit with a bullet while killing hundreds02:11
Macerand just jumps right back up :)02:11
Maceri don't think hollywood understands how much getting shot hurts02:11
Bobbethere's this movie where the guy has a bullet hole and cauterizes it by BURNING POWDER ON IT.02:12
BobbeHe goes like 'ungh'02:12
Macerhell yeah haha02:12
Bobbeand keeps going02:12
Macerthe best part of rambo was when he crawls through the mind field stabbing at the ground with his rambo k-bar02:12
Macerand rips a land mine right up out the ground02:12
Bobbeman that's nothing02:13
Maceromg i was crying .. we were watching that in iraq and couldn't stop laughing02:13
Bobbehey, one thing I always wanted to know02:13
Maceror when the reservists don't want to go into the cave and were like "Screw that bob.. i just do this on the weekends!"02:13
JaffaRight, sleep time.02:13
Bobbethe farenheit 9/11 thing where you guys hear bloodhound gang through your helmets. that true?02:13
Jaffatmo is a time sink02:14
GeneralAntillesShit hole02:14
MacerBobbe: uhm. what helmets?02:14
JaffaAlthough, all the Rover threads have made the community self-destruction threads fade in my mind :)02:14
lcukjaffa +irc02:14
Maceri don't know. haven't seen the movie in a long time.. but when i flew on helos and military planes i didn't have a helmet02:15
Bobbehe says that soldiers had audio streamed to their helmets through the tank or sth, playing music while they fought02:15
Jaffalcuk: IRC's more ignorable - once a tab goes bold, it stays bold (until it goes red & bold). tmo email notifications keep drawing me back in02:15
Macermaybe the army did :)02:15
Maceri was in the USMC02:15
Bobbewhat's usmc?02:15
Macerand i know we didn't have streaming audio haha02:15
jaskaunited states muppet corps02:15
kfxMacer: did I just hear you imply you don't wear your k-pot on patrol02:15
lcukjaffa, i have gmail and keep the browser closed unless i want stuffs02:15
kfxthis is going in your aar mister02:15
MacerMarine Corps02:15
Macerjaska: haha02:15
lcuknone of this bug me whilst i work02:15
kkrustyMacer: whats the difference?02:15
lcukapart from irc flashes annoyingly02:15
Macerquiet you with your communist propaganda02:15
BobbeI just pictures Miss Piggy raging war in Iraq02:16
Macerkkrusty: the army is weaker :)02:16
lcukbut if it doesnt flash people and conversations are missed02:16
kfxkkrusty: the marines are more delusional02:16
Macerlol... kfx maybe.. but the army was horrible02:16
* kfx already took part in a distro war in #maemo today; next up: military in-fighting02:16
Maceri was watching army recruits at ft gordan one day and it was like.. wtf?02:16
kfxMacer: I was a cav scout for a long time :)02:16
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kfxdude, ft gordon is signal crap02:17
Macerthe drill sgt took them to chow.. and gave them 45 mins to eat?02:17
jaskai bet the locals would like fighting a pig (ms. piggy)02:17
kfx---> signal corps <---02:17
Macerkfx: i know. i had to go there to train on sat comm :)02:17
Bobbeand lose, since they would probably send a suicide bomber to kill the pig02:17
kfxyou are on a base full of skinny soldiers with huge glasses and no-running profiles02:17
Macerwhich was awesome because the first time in iraq i got to hang out at al asad02:17
Bobbethere are more pigs than suicide bombers in the world, I guess02:17
Macerwell. that explains it02:17
Macerthey couldn't drill that well either02:17
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kfxno, they can't02:18
kfxthe army tries really hard to baby the tech guys02:18
Macer2nd time i got attached to the meu. then to a grunt unit.. and was running around dodging shit with a radio on my back02:18
kfxbecause otherwise the tech guys would all join the air force02:18
Macerwow did that suck :)02:18
* kfx <3 his bradley02:18
Macerwhy is it they can't come up with something that doesn't have a 20ft antenna?02:18
Macerkfx: !02:18
Maceri rode in one02:18
kfx*plink* *plink* aw, are they shooting at us again?02:18
kfx*wham* no, they're done now02:18
Macersome army cats gave us a ride into ramadi02:19
Macerthe damn back of it was horrible02:19
Maceri'm 6'302:19
kfxwelcome to the club02:19
kfxI'm 6'5"02:19
Macerso i had to keep my neck to the side the entire time haha02:19
kfxthe whole thing is horrible02:19
Macerbecause the ceiling was like... so damn low02:19
kfxuntil you realize that outside the wire, a giant armored box isn't a bad place to be02:19
Macerkfx: depends on what you roll over02:19
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Maceri loved the army had that ied thing that used to roll around getting blasted02:20
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kfxwhen I drove them I had to take a plasma cutter to the seat and "fix" it so I could fit02:20
Macerone guy got hit like 10 times in 1 night hahah02:20
kfxMacer: which one?  the giant chainwhip thing?02:20
Macerit looked more like a digger02:20
kfxoh ok02:20
Macerit had some attachment on the front of it that would get blown up02:20
kfxyeah those make better minesweepers than the five-ton trucks02:21
Macerover and over :) it was funny02:21
Macerthe guy would get hit.. then just kind of keep on rolling haha02:21
kfxlet me tell you02:21
Macerramadi was pretty bad02:21
kfxthe guys who drive those are either article 15 cases or else very weird people02:21
Maceri'd hope so02:21
kfxone of the guys in my bradley unit voluntarily transferred to drive one of those things02:21
Maceranybody in eod has to be nuts02:21
kfxhe was a profoundly strange individual02:22
kfxI never went to iraq; I hung out in kabul mostly02:22
Macerwe had a guy on the roof manning a 50cal and we set up a sandbag post with some half broken balistic glass in front of it02:22
Macerand the guy took a shot right in front of his face :)02:22
Maceri mean like the glass spidered right in front of his forehead hhahaa02:23
Maceri told him i would be on the 5th page of the thank you letter to the company that makes the glass :)02:23
kfx"congratulations on living now go guard the gate"02:23
Macerwe were fucking with him pretty bad after that because he started tracing an entire building trying to get the guy with a 50 cal02:23
Maceri don't think he understood those rounds were probably going through 3 city blocks02:24
Macerand you know how a 50 cal sounds like a damn grenade going off when you're enclosed in a building02:24
kfxyou'd think that'd be enough to get someone to stop him from wailing on it02:25
Bobbehow many ppl are still in iraq now?02:25
Macerso we were all in there half deaf.. and in between pauses he would scream "i could see him!" bam bam bam02:25
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Macer"there he is" bam bam bam02:25
Maceri mean it sucked at the time but afterwards it was pretty funny :)02:25
Maceri asked him if he saw the flash of white light telling him it wasn't his time02:26
kfxcouldn't see it through the muzzle flash02:26
Macerdamn we were just wrong :)02:26
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amrwe need a spotify client! :D02:26
Macerwe had to go house sweeping one night and some dude tried to shoot the door open with a shotgun and before i got a chance to tell him it was too late.02:26
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Macerhe shrapneled his own foot :)02:27
kfxthere was some reservist on gate guard at camp phoenix with no magazine in his rifle02:27
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kfxmy xo hired three locals to rush the guy and take his weapon02:28
Macerthat's just wrong :)02:28
kfxone of them brought the rifle back to the lieutenant and the other two just sat on the reservist until we got there02:28
Macerone night we had to house sweep and came across a house with a huge steel door on it02:28
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Macerwe knocked.. tried to bust it open. tried shooting it open.. and it wouldn't budge and the fuckers wouldn't answer.. so we blew it up and this woman got totally shrapneled02:29
Macerthe funny part was that we couldn't get a medevac for her because there were ieds everywhere so 3 fuckers had to carry her and she was a whale02:29
Macermy buddy was the guy that films stuff.. the cameraman02:29
Macerso they're carrying her for a whole click02:30
Macerwhile he's filming and then they all bust out laughing02:30
Macer"damn dude. you dropped her"02:30
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Maceramazing what you find funny in iraq02:30
BobbeI know it's wrong, but I find that perfectly amusing meself ;P02:31
Maceri used to love it when the new guys would come in... and they were so scary02:31
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Macerand they got hit with rockets and we're just sitting around eating ramen noodles while they're running around like the world was ending02:31
kfxyou can tell the new guys because they scramble when they hear mortars02:31
BobbeMacer, how did u guys communicate with the locals?02:31
Macerkfx: yeah hahaha02:31
Macerkfx: ever see someone jump under the plastic chow hall table?02:31
kfxBobbe: dunno about iraq but we had native interpreters02:31
kfxMacer: hahaha yeah or their cots02:31
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Maceryup :) that shit would make me die laughing02:32
Bobbekfx, during house sweeping?02:32
kfxnothing funnier than twenty guys in a gp medium hiding from mortars under cots02:32
Macerespecially when we were at the forward post02:32
Macerwith the hooches that were surrounded by huge hesco barriers02:32
kfxBobbe: I wasn't a door-kicker, I dunno how they handled that02:32
MacerBobbe: ye02:32
kfxMacer: did iraqis make houses out of conexes too?02:32
Macerwe had a translator02:32
Macerthe metal shipping boxes?02:33
Macerwe had a different nme for them but i can't remember02:33
Bobbeman, that must have been bizarre. This guy shoots his way into your place and you keep having to wait for somebody to translate02:33
Macerbut yes :)02:33
Macersome of them did02:33
kfxafghanis would stack those things like legos and cut doors and windows in them02:33
MacerBobbe: we lost ours once02:33
Macerfucker couldn't get his piece of crap ak47 working when we were stepping off02:33
Macerand he got lost :)02:34
mavhcput a google datacentre container in the middle of the pile for heat and youtube02:34
kfxI could get by some without a terp because I speak a little russian02:34
Maceranother platoon picked him up though02:34
Bobbewhen you say we lost one you mean you didn't know where he was02:34
kfxbut I don't think as many iraqis speak russian as afhgans do02:34
kkrustykfx: probably arabic02:34
MacerBobbe: yeah. he got lost. another platoon picked him up. we were on a time schedule02:34
Macerand didn't care too much for the guy who can translate :)02:35
* Bobbe is a translator, thankuverymuch02:35
BobbeI'm glad to know you'd let me die out there02:35
kkrustykfx: afghans speak russian? neat02:35
MacerBobbe: well.. if you were an american translator we probably wouldn't have left you02:35
kfxkkrusty: the russians occupied them for roughly a billion years02:35
Bobbekkrusty, probably part of the 'lets-be-happy-and-overthrow-america' plan of the 80s02:35
Macerbut we didn't care much for the iraqi translator02:35
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kfxafghanistan was like russia's vietnam02:36
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Macerespecially when one day their platoon didn't do a patrol because they didn't get paid on time02:36
BobbeMacer, I get it02:36
kfxa native terp can survive on his own, an american terp would probably die02:36
kkrustykfx: have you ever went close to the border with Pakistan?02:36
Macerthat's like the US Army saying "No. we are on strike"02:36
Macerkfx: naw. actually they would murder the iraqi one02:36
Macerbut we wouldn't have let an american die out there :) or left him02:37
BobbeMacer, it just wasn't personal for them I guess. Also accounts for why casualties on outsourced forces were higher, usually02:37
kfxkkrusty: not really02:37
kfxI was mostly in kabul02:37
MacerBobbe: they had a post in the middle of the city one day and got shot at by a sniper and just started shooting everywhere02:37
Macerlike they went into a 360 and just shot at everything. they were absolutely horrible02:37
rm_youjohnx: ?02:38
Bobbehow much training did they have?02:38
kfxI had a much better time working for blackwater than I did working for the army02:38
kkrustykfx: what are the general sentiments about Pak in there?02:38
MacerBobbe: enough to get them out there02:38
johnxrm_you: looking02:38
Macervery little02:38
kfxkkrusty: I don't think there are any02:38
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johnxlooks very cool, did that actually come from an upload? or is it a sample?02:38
Maceri think they had guys training for 2-4 weeks and that was it02:38
Macerand most of them only did it for a paycheck02:38
kfxafghanistan isn't what you'd call a homongenous nation02:38
Bobbehow about u guys02:38
rm_youjohnx: came from DB02:38
rm_youjohnx: it's done02:38
rm_youif that is acceptable02:38
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MacerBobbe: Marines trainf or 3 months for boot camp.. then depending on what you do... maybe another 2-3 afterwards02:39
kkrustykfx: Im just thinking that whatever happens there ends up getting blamed on Pak.02:39
* kkrusty is from Pak02:39
Macerand if you have an advanced specialty .. even longer02:39
rm_youjohnx: the upload app isn't actually doing the uploads yet, but the url for that is pretty much done too, just gotta implement libcurl02:39
kfxkkrusty: mostly whatever happens there gets blamed on whoever happens to be standing nearby at the time02:39
Maceri think the army is 9 weeks02:39
kfxyeah army is 9 weeks02:39
Macerkfx: does the army get liberty during their basic ?02:40
kfxsubsequent trainig in the army varies from two/three weeks (mortarman lmao) to well over two years (for a linguist or something)02:40
johnxrm_you: I think it looks good, but I'm in over my head by a little :)02:40
kfxMacer: no02:40
rm_youanyone here who actually works on jabber/xml/geolocation/whatever want to tell me if that's ACTUALLY what my xml is supposed to look like? :P (
Maceri thought you guys get weekends :)02:40
rm_youjohnx: lol well when i finish the upload app ima take a break for a bit and then i can help you02:40
kfxif your AIT is longer than like six months you start getting weekends then02:40
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Macerdid you have to fill out the pre made letter when you got there?02:41
BobbeI see02:41
Macerwe had drill instructors screaming at us telling us what to write haha02:41
kfxnope, I never did02:41
Macer"Dear _enter name here_, I have arrived and am in good health..."02:41
rm_youjohnx: is it just the C++ that's giving you issues?02:41
Macerhahaha it was a riot02:41
Bobbethe outsourced guys were like the Chef in the South Park movie02:41
MacerBobbe: believe it or not. the best chow halls are in iraq :)02:41
Macerthere was one that was like eating at denny's every day02:42
johnxrm_you: I've been working on the start-hildon run-parts thing still02:42
kfxI disagree02:42
johnxand also slacking off :>02:42
kfxthe best chow halls are on blackwater qrf bases :)02:42
Macerkfx: usaf :)02:42
kfxoh, yeah02:42
Macerthey had chow halls where you order at the table02:42
kfxthere's something surreal about eating pork chops in a muslim nation02:42
Macerand someone picks up your stuff for you that you leave there02:42
Bobbechow hall is the term for all forces, or just USMC?02:43
kfxfreaking air force02:43
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Macerkfx: i had to go eat an an air force base and had no idea02:43
Maceri picked my stuff up and was walking around for 5 minutes trying to figure out where to put the stuff02:43
Maceruntil some airman said "Sergeant.. what are you doing?"02:43
Macer"I'm looking for the place to put this stuff."02:43
kfxon ft gordon we weren't allowed to call cadence marching past af barracks (they call them 'dorms') because we were waking them up02:43
Macer"No Sergeant..... just leave it. Someone comes and gets it."02:44
Macerkfx: ! us too!!02:44
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Macerhahaha we were up at like 5am running and screaming and a drill sgt told our CO to shut up02:44
kfxmost ridiculous thing I ever heard in the military02:44
Macerhahahah i guess he didn't realize a major was running us02:44
Macerso he told us to scream louder :)02:44
Bobbe"Shut up, soldiers! Captain needs his beauty sleep!"02:44
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Macerthat shit was idiotic02:44
rm_youjohnx: ah ok then, i did a bit of the slacking this morning too, and going to return to it some tonight :)02:44
kfxwe'd make sure to be marching past at like 7:01 or whenever they were 'awake' so we could scream our heads off02:45
kfxalso we used to start fights in mess halls and tell the mps we were usaf02:45
Macerft gordan was great over by the marine attachment02:45
kfxaugusta is a terrible town02:45
Macerand the class was a joke.. we would get off at noon and be drunk by 1230 :)02:45
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kfxbarton field02:46
Macerand i think the army guys weren't allowed to look at us or something02:46
kfxI think you could land a plane in barton field02:46
Macerbecause they always seemed to turn away when we were exiting :) it was wierd02:46
kfxMacer: 90% of the army guys on that base were ait kids02:46
kfxthey were probably just terrified of strangers02:46
Macerwtf is ait? :)02:46
kfxadvanced individual training02:46
kfxjob training after basic02:47
Macerinfantry training?02:47
Maceroh.. mos02:47
kfxdunno what marines call it02:47
kfxyeah it's where you learn your mos02:47
Macerthey had like02:47
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Macerlittle gold chevrons on their pockets02:47
kfxno idea02:47
kfxthat might be rotc crap or something02:47
Macer:) i think the worst part of the army is that you guys use those patches for rank02:47
mavhcso how realistic was Generation Kill?02:48
kfxno idea what generation kill is02:48
Macerme neither02:48
Macerit was hard to tell who the officers were :)02:48
kfxMacer: we don't any more!  now the patches are velcroed to their chests02:48
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kfxwhich made it hard to check rank on female soldiers without getting an equal opportunity complaint02:48
Macerand you have like. different patches on each collar02:48
Macerfor officers.. wtf was that about? :)02:48
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kfxpatch for rank, one for branch02:48
kfxso you could tell the admin pukes and not accidentally listen to or respect them02:49
kfxinfantry, cavalry, aviation, hq, etc02:49
Maceri think the funniest thing at ft gordan was that when we eat we put our covers on the table02:49
kfxthey only wear them on class a and b uniforms now though02:49
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Macerand some sgt first class said "I KNOW MARINES DON'T EAT WITH THEIR HEADGEAR ON THE TABLE!"02:49
kfxhahaha hwhat02:50
Macerand i was like.. "Uhm. Sorry Sergeant First Class... but we do."02:50
kfxI never ran into that crap02:50
kfxyeah that's what I would have said02:50
jaem_N810hey folks02:50
Macerthey had "Headgear racks"02:50
kfxwhat the hell02:50
kfxnever saw that02:50
Maceri know! that's what i said!02:50
Macerwe had a USAF instructor too02:50
jaem_N810has anyone gotten qtnx working without massive amounts of corruption?02:50
Macertech sergeant earl02:50
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kfxtech sergeant02:51
Macerhe called his cover a hat and his blouse a jacket :)02:51
kfxthat's like e6 or something right02:51
Maceri think02:51
Macere6 or e702:51
kfxyeah I called my cover a hat too02:51
kfxI could never take that crap seriously02:51
Macerif we called our cover a hat we would get thrashed02:51
kfxI also refer to m16s and m4s "guns"02:51
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Macerlol.. that's another one we would get thrashed for02:51
kfxbecause if it fires a damn bullet with gunpowder it's a gun ok :)02:51
Macerwe had to call a rifle or pistol a weapon or rifle or pistol02:52
kfxoh, I got in trouble for it all the time02:52
kfxcounseling statement after counseling statement02:52
kfxdidn't care02:52
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Macerkfx: well. in the USMC doing stuff like that over and over.. they would make your life miserable so it was alwasy best to just do it02:52
kfx"you need to call your headgear 'cover' or 'headgear'"02:52
Macerlike wearing a seat belt :)02:52
kfx"are you going to give me an article 15 about it?"02:53
kfx"of course not"02:53
kfx"okay then, give me my hat back"02:53
Macerwe got yelled at for not saluting indoors!02:53
kfxhahaha what02:53
Macerarmy salutes indoors i guess02:53
kfxno, they don't02:53
kfxonly time you salute indoors is when you're reporting for pay02:53
kfxwhich nobody does, ever02:53
kfxbecause of direct deposit02:53
Macerwell. some butterbar told us that crap02:53
kfxI think someone was screwing with you02:53
kfxoh a butterbar02:54
kfxhe was just a moron then02:54
Macersure was02:54
Bobbewth is a butterbar?02:54
Macerour capt was there02:54
Macerand started yelling at him02:54
kfxmy commander used to call our butterbar 'temp to hire'02:54
Macer"You ever tell my Marines what they should and shouldn't do then I'm going to let them fuck you up!"02:54
Macerthat shit was a riot02:54
kfxBobbe: 1st lieutenant02:55
kfxlowest officer rank there is02:55
jaem_N810can someone with Tear/Midori installed do me a quick favour?02:55
kfxa private with too much brasso and not enough basic02:55
Macergood times :)02:55
Macerif i didn't have my son i would have stayed in02:55
Bobbejaem_N810, I don't have but I can install it. just a sec02:55
jaem_N810sure, thanks02:55
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Bobbekfx, thx. Urban Dictionary had it too02:55
Macerespecially after i went on a float and did all the things i thought the recruiter lied to me about02:55
Macergot to do the whole see the world thing right before goign to iraq the 2nd time and getting extended twice02:56
jaem_N810the Telus accounts website is having issues; knowing Telus, it's probably their fault, but...02:56
Maceri think india was the worst country in existance.. what a disgusting place02:56
Bobbejaem_N810, what's qole's repo again? the one that has tear and dependencies?02:57
kfxMacer: I'm the same way02:57
jaem_N810it was at .maemobox.org02:57
kfxwhen it came time to reup I found out my wife was pregnant02:57
jaem_N810I think it's repo(sitory) now02:57
kfxso I did one job with blackwater and got out of the whole game02:57
Bobbejaem_N810, distro?02:58
Macerisn't blackwater a merc company?02:58
Macerhow is that out f the whole game?02:58
kfxthey're called 'xe' now because of all the lawsuits02:58
kfxno I got out of the game after the blackwater deal02:58
jaem_N810Bobbe: ...Maemo?02:58
jaem_N810not Mer02:58
Macerah well... i'm off to grab some food.. was nice talking to you02:59
Bobbejaem_N810, got it02:59
Bobbejust a sec02:59
jaem_N810when you're ready, go to , click " British Columbia", and see if the login page redirects you back to the region chooser03:00
BobbeMacer, the war may have been for bizarre reasons or not, but I do respect the ppl who put their lives in front of the bullets, man.03:00
Bobbejaem_N810, OK. taking forever to update the repos, kinda weird03:01
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jaem_N810Bobbe: how's it coming?03:07
Bobbejaem_N810, opening the page now03:07
Bobbeit asked me to put my account info... and after 2 and 3 seconds later brought me back to the region chooser03:08
Bobbesame thing has happened for any other place I chose, jaem_N81003:10
jaem_N810okay, thanks03:10
jaem_N810just wanted to make sure03:10
jaem_N810I was trying to pay my bills XD03:10
Bobbewhat's telus?03:11
jaem_N810my laptop is boxed and waiting for the courier03:11
* Bobbe brazilian03:12
* jaem_N810 tries to think of something that wouldn't be considered libel03:12
jaem_N810they're a cell phone provider03:12
jaem_N810in that they provide (severely crippled) cell phones03:12
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jaem_N810not so much providing service, though03:12
jaem_N810they gave me 60 "free" minutes last fall, because they dropped most of my calls03:13
jaem_N810and tech support is worse than MS or HP03:13
jaem_N810*far* worse03:13
Bobbejaem_N810, it open fine in chrome tho. u have a windows box nearby?03:14
jaem_N810Bobbe: I try not to ;)03:14
jaem_N810The only box I have has no net access, due to wiring constraints03:14
Bobbeso do I, but my 3g modem's a piece of crap no-go in Linux so far.03:14
Bobbeyou wanna vnc into mine?03:15
Bobbewould it help?03:15
jaem_N810well, thanks for the offer, and no offense, but paying bills on someone else's computer isn't very good security practice03:16
Bobbemakes sense03:16
jaem_N810but thanks, though03:16
jaem_N810I was trying to use qtnx to get to my friend's box03:16
jaem_N810but it has major corruption issue03:16
qwerty12_N800get x11vnc running on the computer and use the vncviewer Maemo port03:17
jaem_N810yeah, I could03:18
Bobbedo you have a computer?03:18
jaem_N810but at that point, going to the bank seems more convenient03:19
jaem_N810Bobbe: 2x desktops with no Internet at the moment03:19
jaem_N810and a borked laptop03:19
jaem_N810and an N81003:19
Bobbethe microb did the same thing the first time03:19
jaem_N810only the first time?03:19
Bobbebut if I tried loading again it worked03:20
Bobbeno, if I just cliked on british it kept coming back03:20
Bobbebut if I reloaded the page it worked03:20
* jaem_N810 slaps himself with the try-the-obvious stick03:20
jaem_N810thanks, Bobbe03:21
Bobbeglad I helped =)03:21
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Bobbewhich reminds me I have to pay my freaking phone bill03:22
wazdwait, sidebar?!03:22
Bobbeit's in my ex-gf's name03:22
wazdnoway, its fake03:22
jaem_N810wazd: running Diablo? XD probably03:22
Bobbewazd, probably a mock-up, yeah, but the specs are apparently reliable03:22
wazdjaem_N810: and no kickstand, fail03:23
Bobbeno one from Nokia denied them in itt at least03:23
jaem_N810that would be a horrible thing03:23
* jaem_N810 wants a kickstand03:23
wazdBobbe: it's 3 AM, c'mon :D03:23 has a nice ppage on why it sucks03:23
jaem_N810the N810 kickstand is awesmoe03:23
BobbeI dunno about the kickstand, it wasn't in the mockup, but form factor is highly speculative atm03:24
Bobbethe specs are more certain03:24
jaem_N810it looks interesting, anyhow03:24
Bobbehonestly enough, what killed my was flash 9.4 support only03:24
jaem_N810have they given definitive word on the touchscreen tech?03:24
jaem_N810capacitive would be a deal-breaker for me03:24
wazdIf only it will have same kickstand as n95 or something03:25
BobbeI mean, all the rest could change for the next maemo device. but if freemantle is not flash-10 enabled, then what, we'll have to wait for Harmattan?03:25
wazdthat will pop out from the camera place03:25
wazdBobbe: why so?03:25
wazdBobbe: Maemo is dynamicly updated system since diablo03:26
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wazdBobbe: you even wouldn't have to reflash03:26
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BobbeI know03:26
BobbeI just mean the speed of how updating is going. If this is a sign of how things are progressing...03:28
minracould adobe stop making cpu thrashing crap please.  a god damn "pause" button would be nice03:28
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Bobbebut hey, I know nothing about coding. I could be utterly wrong here03:29
Bobbeminra, lol pause where?03:29
minralongtap on a flash element should pause it03:29
GAN8001jaem_N810, kernel says resistive.03:29
zakkmhey jaem :)03:30
jaem_N810GAN8001: woot!03:30
jaem_N810zakkm: hey03:30
Bobbeminra, makes sense03:30
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Bobberesistive is the one that works on pressure, capacitive's the one in the iphone, right?03:30
wazdminra: in fact long tap = rightclick03:30
wazdminra: everywhere in the system03:31
jaem_N810Bobbe: yes03:31
zakkmGAN8001: you try the new adium 1.4b4 that just came out like a hour ago, the irc is working alot nicer03:31
wazdBobbe: right03:31
jaem_N810capacitive doesn't work as well with stylii03:31
jaem_N810and you need a special stylus, at that03:31
zakkmis the qtablet still around?03:31
zakkmthe nokia app03:31
wazdbtw I think that top part of that mockup is too thick, even n810 is thinner03:32
rm_youanyone happen to know an easy way to get the wireless MAC in a C program?03:32
zakkmcan you run terminal commands in C?03:33
Bobbewazd, the dimensions seem to indicate a thicker device, I guess03:34
rm_youyes, but parsing that crap is a PITA03:34
zakkmthat pic just looks like a n810.. covered cause they didnt want to show what it actually looked like03:34
zakkmand then it doesnt show buttons and such that way too03:34
zakkmbut it shows its a slide out keyboard tablet.03:35
jaem_N810so they claim it has 3G voice?03:35
zakkmthats not the tablet.. they just blanked out a 810 ..03:35
minrait is an artist's rendition - not nokia's03:36
Bobbehow cool would it be if it had this kb03:36
amri dont like the numpad03:37
jaem_N810If it's subsidized by a cell carrier, I might just be able to afford it... :P03:37
BobbeI love the numpad on the side03:37
Bobbethat's the most annoying part of typing on my e7103:37
Bobbei can even type the numbers without looking now, but it's cumbersome03:37
amrspeaking of tablets03:38
amrtime to read the internet on mine in bed03:38
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zakkmmy bro has a phone like that03:39
zakkmthe htc one03:39
wazdeven such a small device has a better keyboard03:39
jaem_N810the battery capacity is terrible, though03:39
jaem_N8101320mAh? Seriously?!03:39
zakkmit depends on power consumption03:39
zakkmand its a phone, may not even have wifi03:40
zakkmand you dont do massive cpu usage such like video playing03:40
jaem_N810yeah, but methinks omap3>omap2 for consumption03:40
jaem_N810and it does have wifi, according to the article03:40
jaem_N810it had darn well better have wifi03:40
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zakkmomap3 is nice :)03:41
b-man16indeed :)03:42
Bobbeit says 500-600mhz03:42
Bobbewhich one is it? or is it both?03:42
Bobbelike it can be oc'ed like nokia did from the 770 to the 800?03:42
Bobbe(at least from what i understood from itt)03:43
GAN8001jaem_n810_afk, OMAP3 will be less than OMAP2 on average03:43
GAN8001Smaller backlight, too.03:43
GAN8001Bobbe, 60003:43
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Bobbethanks GAN800103:44
BobbeGAN8001, you didn't say what you thought (not that I've seen anyway). Are you buying it?03:45
GAN8001Bobbe, I'm in a bad way re Maemo this week.03:45
GAN8001There's looting and rioting on Talk03:46
GAN80013.5" really doesn't suit my use case03:46
Bobbelmao, I've read it03:46
Bobbenot all the 31203:47
BobbeI mean03:47
GAN8001I'm feeling spiteful enough right now to want to buy it with a discount code and turn it around on ebay.03:47
Bobbe313 rants entirely, but I got the digest03:47
GAN8001Open Letter thread.03:47
Bobbeah ok03:47
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Proteousmaybe if we all complain and nash our teeth enough Nokia will scrap all their work and remake the device with a bigger screen03:48
Proteousit could happen!03:49
GAN8001Proteous, I just want a second device.03:50
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GAN8001Movies, ebooks.03:50
Proteousmaybe all the leaked specs are wrong03:51
Proteousand it will really be a 5.2in screen03:51
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GAN8001Proteous, then I'll also be pissed.03:51
jaem_n810_afkGAN8001: re: omap3... I didn't know that03:52
Proteousit will come with a sewing kit and supplies to make a bigger pocket in your pants03:52
GAN8001jaem_n810_afk, basically zero power at idle.03:52
GAN8001jaem_n810_afk, race to idle, too.03:52
jaem_n810_afkthe screen and the battery are really the only things I'd complain about03:52
jaem_n810_afkand they're not enough to deter me if I can afford it03:52
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jaem_n810_afkat least they kept it at WVGA03:53
jaem_n810_afkif they'd lowered the resolution, it would have been a lot worse03:53
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zakkmanyone here know if qtablet still works well/how i could obtain?03:55
jaem_n810_afkzakkm: I saw a recent-ish demo of it running on Mer03:56
jaem_n810_afkbut more than that, I can't say03:56
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zakkmthats amazing i want to try it03:56
Macerman this hacked wii is awesome03:57
zakkmhacked wii?03:57
Macerput homebrew on it03:58
Macersome of the games don't work03:58
Macerbut like 85% of them do03:58
Macerlike so far03:59
Macermadworld and prince of persia don't play03:59
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tonyyarussoAnyone know how to install some variety of fdisk on an N810, or otherwise partition it?  My mom's managed to ship without the internal memory card formatted, so she only has the 250MB to work with.04:05
zakkmtonyyarusso: you can use the builtin "format memory card"04:06
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zakkmtonyyarusso: you can do sfdisk? its already in maemo04:06
* tonyyarusso looks04:06
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zakkmits already on the tablet like installed04:06
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zakkmtonyyarusso: you can also get gparted in maemo?04:07
tonyyarussosfdisk would be fine if it's here - booting now04:08
zakkmyou can also get console-tools and it will have fdisk in it04:08
tonyyarusso'sfdisk' says "-sh: sfdisk: not found"04:09
Macerhow does this sonc game go from hardcore anime cgi04:10
Macerto some voiced still crap04:10
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zakkmtonyyarusso: did you run as root?04:10
zakkmsfdisk requires root04:10
zakkmi believe04:10
tonyyarussozakkm: trying to, but sudser is confusing me04:11
zakkmtype "sudo gainroot"04:11
tonyyarusso"cal_read_block(r&d_mode): size zero, block not found?  Enable RD mode to gain root privileges"04:12
zakkmdo you have rootsh installed?04:13
zakkmjust type root04:13
tonyyarussolooking for those other options now04:13
zakkmgo into application manager and get rootsh or something ;p04:13
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tonyyarussothere we go04:14
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tonyyarussoAfter running that the keyboard no longer works, but the touchscreen does.04:22
tonyyarussopartitioning, that is04:22
tonyyarussomethinks I'm re-flashing this thing04:23
zakkmjust reboot nokia04:23
tonyyarussoI already rebooted.04:23
zakkmtonyyarusso: the tablet has a "restore to factory settings" in control panel..04:23
zakkmyou dont actually have to reflash04:23
tonyyarussoo rly?04:23
* tonyyarusso tries04:23
zakkmits in the menu of contrl panel04:24
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tonyyarussoI found it, but it's asking for a lock code, and we didn't set one.04:25
Firebirdwhat did you use to partition?04:25
zakkmso try like 0000 0123 1234.?04:25
tonyyarussoFirebird: sfdisk04:26
Firebirdeh, the file browser formatter didn't work?04:26
zakkmwhat did the file browser one say?04:26
zakkmyou use the one in menu not "repair" button04:26
tonyyarussoNone of the usual lock codes work either - this must have been previously used and returned.04:26
zakkmtonyyarusso: you know that right?04:27
zakkmmenu - tools - format memory card..04:27
tonyyarussozakkm: trying that also.04:27
tonyyarussozakkm: It seems like it's tries something for like three seconds and goes away, but it still shows up as corrupted.04:28
zakkmfrom menu?04:28
zakkmcant do over computer?04:29
tonyyarussoover computer what?04:29
Firebirdtry plugging it in (USB to computer) and using gparted on it04:29
zakkmformat sd card04:29
tonyyarussogreat, now xterm won't open either.04:29
tonyyarussoFirebird: I already tried that - it wasn't detected.04:29
zakkmwhat OS on pc?04:29
tonyyarussoPerhaps we should just send it back to Amazon?04:29
tonyyarussozakkm: Ubuntu04:29
Firebirddid it say, "internal memory in use" on the device after you plugged it in?04:30
zakkmdid you check /dev folder?04:30
tonyyarussoFirebird: It didn't seem to say anything.04:30
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tonyyarussozakkm: /dev/mmcblk0 exists, but /dev/mmcblk0p1 did not.04:30
Firebirdhow about on your computer after plugging it in04:30
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tonyyarussoFirebird: what about on the computer?04:31
zakkmforget nokia, just plug it into pc04:31
Firebirdplug in the device and see if anything appears in /dev or dmesg04:31
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zakkmtonyyarusso: you sure the write protection isnt turn on.. on the SD?04:31
zakkmthe little arrow thingy in corner04:31
FirebirdI thought we were talking about a N81004:32
zakkmFirebird: his SD card wont format on the n81004:32
tonyyarussozakkm: It's an internal card....04:32
Firebirdah, I thought by internal memory he meant the actual internal memory04:32
tonyyarussoThe internal 2GB thing.04:33
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zakkmwhat are you trying to do with it?04:33
oichHi, I'm trying to flash my n800 to upgrade the OS. I used the command line flasher from the command line on macosx, it printed messages saying it was transferign things and then said it was done. Tne n800 is sitting their with the nokia startup screen. Does it take a long time, or did I do something wrong?04:33
zakkmoich: how long did you wait?04:33
Firebirdoich, did you make it reboot?04:33
oich"make it reboot"? As in, turn it off?04:34
zakkmoich: it should take like a minute, and then show progress bar and all04:34
Firebirddid you give the flasher the -R option?04:34
zakkmoich: what was the command?04:34
oichyes -F image -f -R. it's been about 10 minutes04:34
oich./flassher-2.0.macosx -F RX.....bin -f -R04:34
zakkmoich: you should use 770 flasher04:34
zakkmits what i use.. you just run the app , click on bin file.. and it does it04:34
tonyyarussoWhen I connect it to the PC, dmesg tells me it's there as /dev/sde.  fdisk /dev/sde says "Unable to open /dev/sde"04:35
Firebirdtonyyarusso, then the card might be really trashed04:35
zakkmtonyyarusso: check dmesg04:35
tonyyarussoFirebird: Okay, I'll just tell mom to have Amazon replace it then.  If neither I nor anywhere here can figure it out.... :S04:35
oichzakkm if I turn the n800 off, is that going to cause a problem, since it was in the process of flashing, I assume?04:35
tonyyarussozakkm: I'm looking at it right now - everything looks normal.  "Attached SCSI removable disk, generic sg5 type 0"04:36
zakkmoich: yeah, that would,04:36
zakkmoich: download that, run it.. have nokia attached.. the program will ask for bin file.. select the 43-704:36
zakkmand let it go .. and just leave it plugged in and all04:36
zakkmnokia will get flashed , reboot etc.. your get a menu asking questions... unplug nokia from pc.. and do it04:37
zakkm(question asking = on nokia itself)04:37
oicharen't I normally supposed to start with it turned off though. it's not going to cause a problem that it's on?04:37
Firebirdoich, just unplug it, not much you can do now04:38
Firebirdpull the battery04:38
Firebirdit should still flash04:38
zakkmyou have nokia off04:38
zakkmrun program... select bin file.. plug in nokia04:38
Firebirdoich, actually, try booting before you flash04:38
zakkmleave it04:38
oichI have the battery unplugged already, as the instructions said04:38
Firebirdhave you determined if the hanging flash was a failure yet?04:39
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zakkmwhy you unplugging battery04:39
oichBattery charger. the instructions said unplug battery charger, turn off n800, run flasher, pluging usb. that's what I did04:40
zakkmoich: listen.. have nokia turned off battery in... run 770flasher and select the bin file ... plug nokia by usb... turn nokia on if it didnt turn it on.. .LEAVE everything the way it is04:40
zakkmlet the computer/nokia do the magic on its own04:40
zakkmwait like 5min while it does it04:40
zakkmnokia will ask for questions... unplug from usb04:41
zakkmand use nokia04:41
zakkmno battery unplug, no nothing04:41
Firebirdzakkm, his tablet was frozen in the on state so he had to pull the battery to turn it off04:41
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zakkmah ah04:41
oichno, It's still on. the battery charger was already unplugged04:41
Firebirdor not...04:41
oichso,.. I guess, I either turn it off to flash it, or I wait for the battery to die04:42
Firebirdjust turn it off04:42
zakkmoich: what tablet?04:42
zakkmk just unplug battery04:43
oichThe above url gets 404 not found04:43
zakkmjust take it out, and stick it back in04:43
oichthe actual battery?04:43
zakkmof course04:43
zakkmwhen it says battery unplug, it means actual battery04:43
oichno, it says battery charger, in the instructions04:43
Firebirdit says that to make sure its totally dead and off04:44
oich... if I'm going to turn it off, why take the battery out, instead of just pressing the off button?04:45
zakkmcause it wont work04:45
zakkmin most cases04:45
zakkmoff button relies on initfs, which you might not of got passed/cant04:45
oichheh... it just rebooted after I unplugged the usb cable04:46
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oichit's upgraded. The instructions say to unplug the usb after it reboots... I guess they mean, before it reboots04:49
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Maiorcan I just confirm, is fairly up to date with the described solution for kismet; specifically that there's no convenient application manager-y method of installing kismet, it'll involve (e.g.) red pill mode on an n810 or the like?05:04
zakkmred pill mode isnt that difficult ;p05:05
zakkmit could of changed by then though05:05
Maiorindeed, hence my asking05:05
zakkmheh i dont actually know ;p05:06
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luke-jrMaior: Gentoo supports kismet :p05:13
zakkmso does mer i bet ;p05:14
oichI imagine this is a FAQ, but I'm not finding it. How do I get at files from an x terminal, that I can use then see in the os2008 file manager?05:14
ShadowJK/media/mmc1 /media/mmc2 are the memory cards, /home/user/MyDocs has the "internal memory" stuff05:15
ShadowJK/home/user/MyDocs/.documents .images .sounds .videos etc05:15
z4chhyep ^^05:16
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Maiorluke-jr: yes, but I don't fancy installing gentoo on this05:16
ShadowJKI guess "after it reboots" means when it begins to reboot, as opposed to "after it has rebooted", which would mean that it has completed the boot part of reboot :)05:17
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BobbeGAN8001, u there?06:11
Bobbeguess not06:12
Bobbek cya guys06:12
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cmugSo is there a single distro that is above the others with Fremantle? I seem to have problems with Ubuntu Jaunty and Xephyr06:27
cmugwould a vanilla debian work better out of the box? fedora? suse?06:27
GAN800Er, Debian06:31
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zakkmGAN800: i just learned you were GeneralAntilles :)06:33
cmugGAN800, ok I'll give Debian a try06:33
GAN800zakkm, quick on your toes, eh? ;)06:34
zakkmdid you try the new adium beta yet?06:34
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zakkmi like it, i connect into adium and it autoadds me to maemo/mer ;p06:34
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skiburok  On Demand mode is for more cpu speed?06:36
zakkmskibur: Performance = most / sucks most battery06:36
zakkmmost performance06:36
zakkmon demand = balanced06:36
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zakkmand powersave = baddd cpu for best battery.. but not worth it in most cases06:36
skiburo ok, so it by default06:36
zakkmon demand = default .06:37
zakkmwhich it should be06:37
skiburok thanks06:37
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zakkmsome apps add like "set to ___" in menu06:37
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Macerncis was sad06:58
Maceri need to find a redhead green eyed girl06:58
Macermaybe i should go to ireland06:58
Macerireland has an overabundance of red haired green eyed girls07:00
Macerthey're kind of rare in chicago07:00
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skiburhas anybody been able to get "The Mana World" working on N800/N810?07:03
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yigalmy n800 is just so much more functional to my G1.07:05
yigalandroid is a sick joke I fear07:06
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yigalthe fact that there is an OS for smallish devices that is so compatible with Debian/Ubuntu is just marvelous07:09
sistoseen this article from today?
yigalI'm just a bit bumbed I wasn't smart enough to not invest in the g1 and android by association07:12
rm_youjohnxx: bbl, rebooting07:12
yigalawesome to the link, sweet!07:14
sistoit's called the "Rover"07:15
yigalis it real?07:15
sistonot yet07:16
yigalisn't that the real Q07:16
sistohere's another link in case you haven't seen it
sistoI mean... it's not out yet07:16
yigali drool of course07:17
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sistoi hope they add more keys though07:18
sistoone more row of keys would be nice07:18
yigali've been playing with the n800 so I'm used to minimal keys07:19
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sistolaunch it now!07:20
yigaltransparent virtual keyoard overlay I feel is best for my needs07:20
sistolaunch it Nokia!07:20
yigaldo it! come on! please07:20
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mariorzNew rumored tablet looks expensive07:22
sistoover 500 dollars?07:22
yigalin $? 400-600 or more?07:22
Abulafiahey, i have jfgi ed it - but it's hard on my n810. is there a fb chat client for maemo?07:23
zakkmwhen the new nokia comes out, the others will lower :)07:23
Abulafiasorry - facebook07:23
zakkmAbulafia: you can do pidgin and get facebook support for pidgin07:24
zakkmAbulafia: packages "Pidgin and Pidgin Facebook support" from application manager07:24
zakkmbest there is, i would assume so anyways07:24
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Abulafiayou know, since my everun note got borked,  im using my n810 as a makeshift laptop.07:26
yigali'm an irssi die hard fan on my lappi but pidgin is very very complete on an itt07:26
yigalso nice07:26
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yigalrm_you: rm -fr /, you damnit :)07:28
Abulafianot impressed so much with the n900. ordered an old htc kaiser (which goes in conjunction with the NIT )07:28
Abulafiai have a u820 on the way...07:28
Abulafiathe n810 is just so slow07:28
yigaldepends for what the n800 is faster for many purposes relative to g107:30
yigalas i have had to unfortunately find out07:30
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Abulafiaactually, im loving wm 6.5 + spb shell07:30
Abulafiasomehow wm got faster and more efficient07:31
Abulafiawindows mobile07:31
yigalcool, not my style but if it works for you07:32
Abulafiaand beta roms leak more often than a basement apartment07:32
Abulafiayigal, look at spb shell 307:32
sistoi used windows mobile for a while07:32
sistobut got tired of it07:33
sistonow i have a symbian phone07:33
Abulafiamicrosoft should have just hired spb to do the interface07:33
yigali'm still ethically against wm, so not likely07:33
yigaldon't let it worry you07:34
Abulafiasisto, symbian was the other choice07:35
Abulafiabut i liked the hw on the htc tilt07:35
Abulafiaand frankly, while its not OSS, wm offers a ton of control07:36
yigalandroid so far is a super let down07:37
yigalfor me at least07:37
mariorzyigal: why?07:37
mariorzi have not tried the phones07:37
mariorzdont look to bad07:38
Abulafiafighting with root, signing, f-it.07:38
yigalafter playing with n800 android Fails07:38
Abulafiai have used the g1 and played with -dev on my htc.07:38
mariorzyigal: how07:38
yigali have a rooted g107:39
Abulafiaodd to have a dual booting phone07:39
yigalthe apps. are inferior07:39
yigalit's just not what i expected and it is inferior07:40
yigaleverything nice in terms of apps. is'nt free07:40
yigalnot cool, but ok07:41
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Abulafiait may get better. i know someone working for a non software company07:41
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Abulafiathey are doing a android app07:42
yigalbut the whole interface seems slow relative to maemo, it has to get better07:42
Abulafiamaemos not so fast either.07:42
sistoi think the palm pre's OS is based on linux too07:42
zakkmandroid is way faster than nokia ;p07:43
yigalyes, exactly07:43
luke-jrI'm unhappy with all GUIs at the moment :/07:43
yigalzakkm: what?07:43
zakkmluke-jr: speech is best for you? :P07:43
luke-jrlately I've just been running console mode07:43
luke-jron my N81007:43
* zakkm wishes he had a n810 so he can do that07:43
Abulafiaenlightenment is nice, but it reminds me of scenedemos07:43
luke-jrAbulafia: I won't even consider anything GTK07:44
zakkmenlightenment is assembly most of it07:44
zakkmand enlightenment has compiz support now07:44
luke-jror non-Qt4, really07:44
zakkme17+compiz is amazing07:44
Abulafiagod this n810 keyboard sucks. how do you do it?07:44
zakkmyou dont like the 810 keyboard? :O07:44
Abulafiawish there were a canonical e17 distro07:45
luke-jrAbulafia: I run like 2 commands, and they're on my recent history07:45
luke-jrzakkm: it sucks07:45
zakkmheh i hatee onscreen07:45
zakkmafte rlike 5 words i have to stop07:45
Abulafiamy htc at half the size is so much better07:45
zakkmi cant even use a ipod touch onscreen07:45
zakkmyou guys willing to trade your 810 to me for my n800 + f-f adapter + cash? :)07:46
yigalandroid doesn't have bash as far as I know07:46
Abulafiaim looking forward to this u82007:46
zakkmandroid has terminal, dont think its bash though07:46
yigalit has ash07:46
Abulafiazakkm, id load it on my phone but my NIT is using the BT PAN07:47
yigalzsh would be perfect07:47
Abulafiaah, never mind07:47
mariorzanyone have a link for the docs on how to run console mode?07:47
zakkmandroid v1.5 is soo nice07:47
zakkmthey chaqnged it up alot07:48
zakkmits much cleaner and more ipone-like07:48
zakkmactually looks very nice07:48
zakkm if you guys didnt see07:48
yigali have 1.5.1 and i'm not sure what you're talking about, owell07:49
mariorzluke-jr: how do oyu run console mode?07:49
zakkmthen maybe its like 2.007:49
luke-jrmariorz: I omit typing "startx"07:49
zakkmyou can get it to do startx as soon as you login07:49
zakkmto console07:49
yigalzakkm:  perhaps, not a lover yet07:49
luke-jrthe whole question was how to NOT start X07:50
zakkmyou can add commands to run after you login from console07:50
mariorzwhats the script that nornally runs startx?07:50
zakkmxdm daemon07:50
zakkmmariorz: xdm daemon07:50
luke-jrmariorz: dunno, I run Gentoo, and it doesn't have one07:50
sistozakkm: are you sure the n810 has virtual consoles enabled though?07:50
zakkmi dont own a n810. wish i did07:51
zakkmdoesnt it?07:51
Abulafiai dont really miss the space from the n80007:51
sistoI don't think so07:51
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Abulafiai hardly use it.07:52
zakkmAbulafia: what space?07:52
sistoI think if you don't startx you might end up with nothing07:52
zakkmno you can boot like that07:52
Abulafiathe space on the n800 vs 81007:52
zakkmits just not default07:52
sistoI might be wrong07:52
Abulafiai just wish the gps worked07:53
zakkmi tried "Maps" for the first time today on my n80007:53
zakkmnot bad ;p07:53
Abulafiabut the htc takes care of it07:53
zakkmwish it was gps though07:53
zakkmi hate the 800 form factor :(07:54
Abulafiameh, i have google map+iguidance on my phone07:54
sistoandroid 1.5 screenshots:
Abulafiaand the gps is on par with the mtk and sirfIII07:54
zakkmsisto: then it wasnt 1.507:54
zakkmmaybe im thinking 2.007:54
Abulafiathe NIT is used to web browse07:54
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Abulafiaactually, i could use my htc for irc07:55
Abulafiaand it would be better07:55
sistolatest release 1.5:
skiburi like my N80007:56
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zakkmsisto: its opensource.. im talking nightly ;p07:56
Abulafiathe n810 has an interesting take on keyboard feedback. youve typed the letter when it really starts to hurt.07:56
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zakkmsisto: big change from 1.5 ..07:57
zakkm1.5 is oldd07:57
zakkmlike the "soon to be" 2.007:57
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mariorzluke-jr: just to be clear, youre runing gentoo on the n810?08:02
mariorzor was this all about desktops'08:02
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mariorzdoes the tablet have an xdm daemon?08:03
Abulafiaman i cant wait to see the pixel density on the u81008:04
Abulafiai mean u82008:05
zakkmmariorz: luke-jr did gentoo for the tablet.08:06
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zakkmluke-jr and slonopotamus08:06
mariorzoh cook08:07
Abulafiaoh god08:07
mariorzlooks like stoping the x-server restarts the tablet08:08
luke-jrAbulafia: cuz Maemo sucks?08:08
Abulafiamaemo does suck. so does compiling on arm.08:08
* zakkm likes maemo alot, just wishes it was faster08:10
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Maceri had no idea the doomsday clock was a real thing08:25
Macerwtf .. in 1991 it was at 11:4308:26
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Meiz_n810NickServ hates me08:34
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jaem_N810lcuk: ping!08:50
jaem_N810well, I'm off to bed in a minute, but I wanted to share something...08:57
jaem_N810I was fiddling with liqbase, and made a few accidental clicks with the wrong tool selected, and something rather beautiful came into being08:57
jaem_N810(for certain values of beautiful)08:58
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johnxxhey rm_you09:02
jaem_N810oh darn... liqbase killed my touchscreen09:02
Corsacjaem_N810: wow, really beautiful :)09:03
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jaem_N810g'night, all09:13
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Maceri lost in punch out09:15
Maceri got knocked out :)09:15
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JaffaMorning, all09:44
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rm_you|johnxx: were you wanting to poke me earlier?10:05
johnxxrm_you|, nope, just saying I was back online10:05
rm_you|Myrtti: don't suppose you're dropping by copenhagen? :P10:05
johnxxhad a priority interrupt10:05
rm_you|johnxx: lol k10:05
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Myrttirm_you: nope :-(10:05
rm_youah well10:05
rm_youwill work on knitting later :P10:06
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Maiorwoo kismet working :)10:40
timeless_mbpStskeeps: ping10:45
LiraNunawhere can I find maemo's glibc?10:45
timeless_mbpi have .osso/current-locale10:45
timeless_mbpbut it doesn't seem to be doing its job10:45
qwerty12_N800LiraNuna: the Diablo one:
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Meiz_n810NickServ hates me10:50
LiraNunaqwerty12_N800, sweet, thanks10:50
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Maceri wonder why the wii devs decided to use a new fs10:52
Macerinstead of using another one10:52
Macerfor external usb support10:52
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qwerty12_N800because when an iso is scrubbed, wbfs doesn't unscrub it to full size10:52
qwerty12_N800amongst other reasons10:53
Macerwhat does scrubbing do to it?10:53
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qwerty12_N800reduces the size by having the same parts pointing to one place or something10:55
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* timeless_mbp wonders how /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager works10:58
johnxxshould be the same as anything that uses update-alternatives10:58
johnxxis there a specific question?10:59
rkirtiRandom Fortune: We can use symlinks of course... syslogd would be a symlink to syslogp and  ftpd and ircd would be linked to ftpp and ircp... and of course the  point-to-point protocal paenguin. -- Kevin M. Bealer, commenting on the penguin Linux logo10:59
Maceryeah. didn't understand why it just didn't use ext3 or something10:59
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Maceryou weren't talking to me :)10:59
johnxxMacer, licensing :)11:00
qwerty12_N800Macer, there's a fuse filesystem available for it :)11:00
rkirti^^oops. /me was testing random features.11:00
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X-FadeHmmm gestures in Modest?;a=commit;h=e492f2f6fdbbe5469b4b8413bc756bbfb0e6a39c11:03
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JaffaX-Fade: Backwards stroke to delete it sounds like. Sounds dangerous :)11:05
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X-FadeJaffa: Well, there's probably the trash folder?11:05
timeless_mbpand an auto empty bug :)11:06
timeless_mbpi haven't looked for one11:06
timeless_mbpbut those are standard features of most mail clients :)11:06
timeless_mbpor maybe we could add an empty trash gesture11:06
* Jaffa wonders if a gesture like that can be accurately sampled on such a teeny tiny screen ;-)11:06
timeless_mbpso you could accidentally delete all your mail and empty your trash in one stroke, all while your device is in your pocket :)11:06
timeless_mbpwrt gestures...11:07
X-FadeJaffa: The items are probably full screen width.11:07
X-FadeJaffa: So you have quite some space..11:07
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timeless_mbpif the touch screen driver doesn't suck (boy that'd be nice) ... then you should be able to distinguish between e.g. clockwise continuous spiral and counterclockwise continuous spiral11:08
Macerncis cracks me up11:08
timeless_mbpMacer: some of us are many seasons behind11:08
rm_youGibbs pwnz11:08
Macerthe little israeli girl just beat the crap out of a few people11:08
Macertimeless_mbp: oh :)11:08
timeless_mbpi think the local cable channel just reset to season 311:08
Maceri think in real life she's mexican or something11:08
rm_youi have 1-5 on my desktop in SA...11:08
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Macerher name is de pablo11:09
rm_youi think her name has some accents on it somewhere?11:09
rm_youto be pronounced Da-veed11:09
rm_younot sure which ones or what letters tho :P11:09
rm_youprolly the i11:09
timeless_mbpCote de Pablo11:09
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rm_youmy GF got me into NCIS >_>11:09
Macerrm_you: in the show yeah11:10
Macerthey need to show her kicking more ass11:10
Maceri was a bigger fan of kate tho11:10
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Macerthe first 2 seasons were so comical11:10
timeless_mbprm_you: in hebrew, David is spelled David11:10
timeless_mbpthe accent ends up on the i11:10
Maceryeah heh11:10
timeless_mbpwhich is indeed pronounced ee11:10
timeless_mbpi think my family got me hooked on it11:11
Macershe's more of a fighter. but kate was funnier11:11
timeless_mbpthey also recommended Bones11:11
timeless_mbpwhich i just noticed is airing here11:11
Macerbones is good11:11
timeless_mbpso i've asked my PoS welho DVR (handan) to capture it11:11
Macerthe first 3 seasons are good11:11
timeless_mbpwe'll see if it can manage that simple task11:11
timeless_mbpit has issues w/ basic requests like "please open the menu"11:12
timeless_mbp"please go up one channel"11:12
Macerncis cracks me up though. it has its moments but for the most part it cracks me up11:12
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timeless_mbphumor is an important part of life11:13
Macerbones is pretty funny though11:15
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Maceri'm on the last season of ncis11:16
Maceri watched like 5 seasons straight11:16
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cmugdebian seems to be even worse for an "out-of-the-box fremantle installation"11:41
cmuginstalling nokia-binaries fails11:41
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cmugno wait I left fakeroot out11:41
rm_youyeah, bones is good11:47
rm_youGF got me hooked on that too :)11:47
cmugalso I just learned the ahrd way that my apt sources.conf is different for each target11:47
RST38hehlo all11:47
qwerty12_N800moorning RST38h11:48
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johnxxallo RST38h11:48
RST38hmoo, qwerty, johnx11:48
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mib_d22bkdcan anybody help me with my maemo - i have Err ./ Packages 401 Unautorized [IP:....]11:50
mib_d22bkdwhat can i do with this11:50
X-Fademib_d22bkd: What country are you in?11:51
mib_d22bkdthis is on apt=get update11:51
qwerty12_N800this is in diablo?11:51
mib_d22bkdmy maemo crash and i try to fix it using chroon ond doing update, but i have this Error11:52
timeless_mbpmib_d22bkd: ?11:52
johnxxX-Fade, should show something in a web browser?11:52
mib_d22bkdCorrect: Err ./ Packages 401 Unautorized [IP: 80]11:52
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timeless_mbpmib_d22bkd: if you're having problems w/ a nokia service (and that is one)11:53
timeless_mbpplease call nokia care11:53
mib_d22bkdok :/11:53
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X-Fadejohnxx: is wrong.11:56
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johnxxhe typed what looked like a cut+paste so I was quite confused when it didn't load here :)11:57
X-FadeYeah ;)11:57
mib_d22bkdok, how about this:    Failed to fetch Sub-process gzip returned an error code (100)11:57
johnxxdid this happen more than once?11:58
X-Fademib_d22bkd: Works for me..11:58
mib_d22bkd3 times11:58
johnxxcan you check what kind of file it actually is?11:59
johnxxI'm guessing it's an html error document11:59
johnxxnokia uses a mirroring service and I'd bet that your local mirror is having issues11:59
mib_d22bkdapt-get update and i have this error since yesterday11:59
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johnxxif you can copy that file to a normal linux machine and run file on it that might shed some light on the situation12:00
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lardmanmorning all12:01
mib_d22bkdthis file when i download it normaly works and extract well12:01
johnxxmorning lardman12:01
* X-Fade wonders why mib_d22bkd downloads from r.m.o/contrib/ instead of /extras/12:02
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mib_d22bkdX-Face, what i myst change in Repository Catalogue?12:03
mib_d22bkdX-Fade, what i myst change in Repository Catalogue?12:03
rm_youlol, X-Face :P12:04
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* Myrtti haz yarn!12:05
lardmanmib_d22bkd: it should already be there, but grayed out, edit it and remove the tick mark against "disable this repo" (or whatever it catually says)12:05
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rm_youMyrtti: :P12:05
rm_youI left all my yarn in TX cause i didn't want to bring my metal needles on three flights, two international <_<12:06
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Myrttirm_you: bamboo12:08
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rm_youyeah i pretty much only use Addi Turbo circulars O_o12:09
Myrttiok, I need to do something to these hanks now, can't help it anymore12:09
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timeless_mbp :)12:11
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timeless_mbpi'm trying to decide if it was worth reading that much of the thread for that one comment12:12
X-FadeI get distracted by the volume of messages. It's just too much.12:13
timeless_mbpi know i've asked before12:13
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timeless_mbphow do i read it in a single page?12:13
JaffaX-Fade: bah, you're ignoring the "real" "community" with your elitist attitude12:13
X-FadeJaffa: Heh ;)12:13
timeless_mbpi wanna share a thread12:14
X-FadeJaffa: Sorry for not reading all 355 posts in that thread :(12:14
JaffaX-Fade: although, it's nice to hear comments confirming that the fora denizens aren't the only real people12:14
kyndeI have an issue with CPU scaling. It seems like if I have a window open, the scaling_min_freq is raised by some maemo desktop related app, I presume, to 400000, thus rendering the CPU scaling inefficient...12:15
kyndeIs there way to alter that behaviour somehow?12:15
timeless_mbpplease read that thread :)12:15
timeless_mbpkynde: so um12:16
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timeless_mbpthe idea of scaling is constantly to swap dynamically between frequencies12:16
timeless_mbpthat's not inefficient12:16
timeless_mbpit's by design12:16
kyndeBut raising the _min_ freq to 400000 renders the scaling, not only inefficient, but effectively disables it. Since min == max 400000 and regardless of governor current freq remains at 400000.12:17
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X-Fadeand doing a burst of work at a high cpu level usually takes less energy than doing the same work for a longer time on a lower freq.12:17
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X-Fadekynde: Video playing? Or other multimedia?12:18
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kyndeNope. An SDL user app that uses sockets. But it's very clever about it's use of sleep and select() so that unless it really has to do something both it's threads are in sleep.12:19
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RST38hLiraNuna: So?12:20
kyndeBut, whenever that app (and it seems like regardless of what app I have running the scaling_min_freq jumps from 165000 to 40000012:20
* RST38h yawns 12:20
LiraNunaRST38h, where did they get those rumors?12:20
RST38hLiraNuna: They abduct, drug, and torture Nokia employees12:21
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JaffaLiraNuna: received a leak (as it says in the page you gave ;-))12:21
Macerlol! it's ok. we don't talk about fight club12:21
Macerdamn ncis is a riot12:21
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kyndeand just to be clear, I'm not raising it to 400000, some part of the platform appears to do it (or it might be the maemo SDL, haven't checked that yet)12:22
timeless_mbp(-) Hildon desktop died or exited. [OK]12:22
lardmankynde: any DSP task will raise that12:23
LiraNuna"the N900 does not appear to feature the navi-keys" D:12:23
JaffaLiraNuna: See vagueish render/photo at
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lardmanJaffa: I'm holding out hope that this logic is correct and that we will see a bigger device:
RST38hlardman: Should have left hope at the door...12:25
lardmantrue, but I'm a 1/2 full type of guy when it comes to new hw12:25
X-FadeAm I the only one liking the smaller screen? So it actually confortably fits in my pocket? :)12:26
Jaffalardman: RX-71 being, say, Psion Series 5 size would be great (even better if it was the same form factor ;-))12:26
lardmanJaffa: yep, exactly12:26
JaffaX-Fade: one of few, I think ;-)12:26
kyndelarman: is there a way to get it back down while running?12:26
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till-why just 600 mhz?12:26
RST38hJaffa: As RX-71 seems, according to SDK, to have a dialpad, I would say it is gonna be a flip phone =)12:26
X-FadeJaffa: You hear nobody complaining an iphone is too small?12:26
JaffaRST38h: Didn't it have *additional* keys?12:27
lardmanX-Fade: depends what you want to do with it, I'd certainly like a smarter smartphone, but I'd like a proper small tablet to hack on and use for productivity stuff, and watching videos12:27
X-FadeIf I want to have a bigger screen I just upnp/dlna to display the media on my TV?12:27
timeless_mbpAll text written by SD69 may be freely copied and used on only, and may be linked to from another site. All other rights reserved.12:27
RST38hX-Fade: You can't compare Steve Jobs cultists to normal people12:27
JaffaX-Fade: Rover seems to be nearly 50% thicker than an iPhone12:27
timeless_mbpcould someone tell  SD69 he isn't on itt anymore? :)12:27
kyndelardman: since it's obnoxious for me since the app will be left running for really long periods of time and I've gone through numerous hoops to be really efficient about screen updates. and now if the CPU just stays at 400MHz regardless of load being 0 it's not good.12:27
RST38hX-Fade: And yes, it has got a video out, so you may not need upnp12:27
X-FadeRST38h: blah, I dislike cables ;)12:28
kyndelardman: you happen to know what exactly modifies it? kernel DSP stuff or what?12:28
JaffaX-Fade: when I want a bigger screen, I use a bigger computer (such as the mobo-less one under my TV)12:28
timeless_mbpkynde: ever met Schrödinger's cat?12:28
X-FadeRST38h: Why using a wire when it can be done wirelessly.12:28
lardmankynde: dyntick still works12:28
lardmankynde: the kernel changes the frequency when a dynamic task is loaded12:28
RST38hX-Fade: Because you would have to have an extra computer plugged into your tv?12:29
lardmankynde: what's your app?12:29
X-FadeRST38h: No, my tv has dlna.12:29
JaffaX-Fade: show off ;-p12:29
RST38hX-Fade: You are special then =)12:29
kyndecustom, written by me for the company I work at.12:29
lardmanyeah, but what does it do?12:29
* Jaffa 's dad's new TV has DLNA, allegedly, too. But apparently not with anything other than other Panasonic stuff really (IIRC)12:29
kyndewe're (going to be) using n810 devices as a sort of user remote controllers for gaming devices.12:30
lardmanhmm, interesting that screen shot of the n900, the writing on the screen is so small it would be unreadable12:30
kyndetimeless_mbp: nope, but I keep finding boxes that contain it in nethack :-)12:31
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timeless_mbpkynde: i hope you understand the principle?12:31
X-Fadelardman: I don't really think that is a problem?12:31
timeless_mbpspecifically, the act of observing it changes the object being observed12:31
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timeless_mbphow are you measuring cpu state?12:31
sbaaderHi all!12:31
lardmanX-Fade: ok12:32
kyndetimeless_mbp: I used to work as physicist at HUT (computational quantum physics), so yes, I dare say that I'm acquainted with the subject. :)12:32
* lardman heads off to get a shower, it's great being on holiday :)12:32
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X-FadeHmm check the image, there is no shift key?12:32
timeless_mbpkynde: anyway, i wouldn't worry about it :)12:33
sbaaderI have a problem with the browser on diablo. It finger-scrolls normal htmp pages and iframes nicely, but a <div style="overflow: scroll;"/> can only be scrolled by its scrollbars12:33
sbaaderany hints to making it finger-scrollable if possible?12:33
qwerty12_N800Maybe Nokia have decided that you don't  need it. Just like no-one needs a D-Pad....12:33
X-FadeHmm no, there is, first one on the bottom row.12:33
floriangood morning12:33
RST38hyea, you do not need it12:34
X-Fadepress-and-hold? :)12:34
timeless_mbpsbaader: use a javascript bookmarklet to stretch the div? :)12:34
sbaadertimeless_mbp: it is large and scrolls fine with the scrollbar12:35
kyndetimeless_mbp: yeah, the screen shuts down nicely and I guess I'll have to rely on the kernel dynticks to let it sleep mostly. even so, I dislike the idea that the min freq is raised without the possibility of dropping back down, but I'm assuming it's related to the framebuffer and DSP rendering.12:35
* RST38h finds it amusing that N900 *has got space* for a dpad but nobody was bright enough to put it there12:35
sbaaderbehaves like an iframe, except taht I can only scroll it with its scrollbar12:36
timeless_mbpkynde: my understanding is that in order to talk to the video thing we must change the freq to <40012:36
timeless_mbpsbaader: basically, scrolling is hard12:36
timeless_mbppredicting how things will work is hard12:36
timeless_mbpconvincing ui designers about potential problems is very hard12:36
qwerty12_N800RST38h, the nokia way is: "if something doesn't work - remove it.". Remember how much complaints of the d-ppad location  on the N810, on itt?12:36
timeless_mbpsbaader: install fenec12:36
timeless_mbpor fennec12:36
RST38hsbaader: and nokians do not do hard things, in case you have not understood yet =)12:37
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N800: i lost the ability to swap chess positions midgame because of that12:37
sbaaderi tried fennic but it is a different ting12:37
RST38hqwerty: there is really a perfect place for the dpad12:37
timeless_mbp(they really did remove that feature because the game could get pissy if you switched positions on the computer)12:37
RST38hqwerty: On the back of the device, where your fingers are when you hold it as a camera (horizontally)12:37
sbaaderI use the browser to prototype a GUI and used an iframe for a scrolling viewport12:38
qwerty12_N800timeless_mbp, heh :(12:38
kyndetimeless_mbp: that must be it. I guess I'll just have to keep the app sleeping as much as possible. the tcp keepalives that cannot be avoided make it difficult though...12:38
sbaadernow i chnaged it to a div with overflow:scroll because the iframe has to make requests to change content, and I just want to use ajax in-place updates12:39
timeless_mbpRST38h: too logical :(12:39
timeless_mbpyou could even use it to control focus of a hypothetical camera12:39
timeless_mbpwhile you watched the full screen viewfinder12:39
sbaaderso that's teh situation :)12:39
timeless_mbpsbaader: sorry... what can i say?12:39
* timeless_mbp ponders12:39
RST38hAnd "too logical" is a big no-no in your hardware design lab?12:39
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timeless_mbpRST38h: so it seems12:40
timeless_mbpremember, i've never managed to find those people12:40
timeless_mbpthis is merely an impression12:40
RST38hI mean, coming up with 7380 that looks like a tampon is ok12:40
X-FadeDid anybody notice that that N900 shot is running diablo? :)12:40
RST38hBut putting in damn dpad is not12:40
timeless_mbpwas that the lipstick phone?12:40
RST38hX-Fade: it is apparently not an N900, just some synthetic presentation image12:41
sbaaderI was just curious if anyone here knew how to make it behave like regular scrolling in the browser -- it seems like an incomplete implementation since both iframes and regular pages scroll by finger touch12:41
timeless_mbpsbaader: the browser behaviors in diablo (and earlier, and probably later) are all hacks12:41
timeless_mbpand unlike the other stuff about which i'm commenting, i know, that's what i work on12:42
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LiraNunableh, I compiled gcc4.4 for maemo and now it spits out static binaries with libc at ~500kb for a hello world12:53
lardman|afkkynde: the DSP doesn't do rendering of anything other than sound12:53
lardman|afkkynde: if you are decoding MP3s or something like that, then it will raise the cpufreq, normal pcm audio shouldn't as that's not handled by a dynamic task12:54
Macerit's funny to watch a tv show back to back12:57
Macerone season after the next12:57
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Macerwhen ncis started they had these old ass b/w lcd phones12:57
minrai hope you enjoy the n90012:57
Macernow they're up to iphones12:57
minrai'll be geekin woth mah pandora12:58
minramight get the n900 too12:58
minradont have a decent phone12:59
Macerminra: heh12:59
minraand that looks like the phone i'd want, tbh12:59
Macerminra: probably a problem with the multi core stuff12:59
Macer:) again12:59
Macermore 3X stuff?12:59
minralook, i buy amd out of pure hate13:00
minrai havent upgraded my 2ghz athlon 2800 xp13:00
Macerwasn't it here where we got into a huge conversation about amd having broken processors and releasing them as X3 :)13:01
* Macer hides13:01
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mavhcthat's how all processors are sold13:02
minrajust buy AMD when you can13:02
Macerwtf is a conesus13:02
Maceri didn't know amd had an atom clone :)13:02
minraThe Power of Christ Compels You!13:02
Macermavhc: haha13:02
Maceri don't want to get into that again :)13:02
RST38hDoes AMD run Scratchbox?13:02
minrawhy not?13:02
minrasure buy i7 if you want the fastest13:03
minraotherwise, send some cash to amd13:03
Maceri want to see what runs a conesus13:03
Macer"ultraportable" cpu13:04
timeless_mbpkynde: sorry, hardware details are really outside my area13:06
timeless_mbpif i get things wrong near them, oops :)13:06
timeless_mbpi work on browsers13:06
timeless_mbpplatforms should just work and get out of my way :)13:06
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* RST38h wonders what drives people to insist on strict XML node structures13:10
Macerwow that thing is neat13:10
RST38hMacer: Seen it in a store. It is ugly like hell13:11
Macerhow small is it?13:11
Macerlooks pretty tiny13:11
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RST38hMacer: Bit bigger than N80013:11
RST38hMacer: Way thicker13:11
Macerfits in a pocket?13:11
RST38hIn a large pocket, yes13:11
RST38hYou will want cargo pants with that13:12
Maceri dunno. a little pricey for what it is but interesting looking13:13
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timeless_mbpsp3000, * ping13:23
timeless_mbpdid anyone get a text message inviting them to download something (possibly a virus)?13:23
tekojotimeless_mbp: yep13:24
sp3000it said " ur " so I ignored it13:24
timeless_mbpsp3000: that puzzled me13:25
timeless_mbptekojo: could you please infect your phone and let me know if it's safe? :)13:25
sp3000grandpa is being hip again13:25
tekojotimeless_mbp: sure, no problem!13:25
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sp3000also, the device I get those on is so old it doesn't linkify, so I'm like totally immune13:26
tekojoNo won't infect my phone, won't even work :-(13:26
timeless_mbptekojo: what kind of phone?13:27
timeless_mbpthe link works fine on my n81 8g13:27
timeless_mbpbut i'm not really interested in letting it have access to my contacts13:27
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timeless_mbpsp3000: does james have a dummy phone w/ a dummy network that we could use?13:28
timeless_mbpactually, i should head in13:28
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timeless_mbpi mostly solved my mxr bug13:28
tekojotimeless_mbp: seems to work on my 6220c13:29
timeless_mbptekojo: ok, so how evil is it?13:29
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sp3000how would you find out, in practise :)13:29
tekojotimeless_mbp: really evil, on your sanity13:30
timeless_mbpsp3000: hrm13:30
timeless_mbpyou'd need your own private networks13:30
timeless_mbpand you'd need a custom address book13:30
timeless_mbpsp3000: if it's actually java, you'd probably disassemble it13:31
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timeless_mbpoh, it's flash13:33
timeless_mbpi guess you'd need to use the flash decompiler13:33
timeless_mbptekojo: was the first line at the bottom poorly kerned, bordering on unreadable?13:33
timeless_mbpand um, is that a pig grunting at me?13:33
timeless_mbpand um13:34
timeless_mbpwhat's wrong w/ the rest of the planet?13:34
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timeless_mbpand what do they have against using proper English in sentences?13:35
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* timeless_mbp accidentally quits13:36
tekojotimeless_mbp: I quit the thing intentionally13:37
timeless_mbpTo capture intergalactic value growth.13:37
timeless_mbpis that a sentence?13:37
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timeless_mbpbtw, i didn't see any "this is confidential" in this thing13:37
timeless_mbpoh, wow, this is scary13:38
Macerit's amazing how shows follow the same theme13:38
Macerall shows follow the hollidays13:38
timeless_mbpbtw, someone should tell them that it isn't a good idea to treat your customers as aliens13:39
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Macerthe thanksgiving show. the christmas show. halloween13:39
tekojotimeless_mbp: It actually doesn't say confidential :-O13:39
timeless_mbptekojo: and they wonder why things leak!13:39
timeless_mbpbtw, i'm going to intentionally not mention some of the interesting parts13:39
timeless_mbpbut i claim that there wasn't anything telling me not to13:39
timeless_mbpthey're just too scary to mention13:39
timeless_mbpbtw, has Finland heard of Platinum?13:40
timeless_mbpor do credit cards here not reach past Gold?13:40
timeless_mbpprocess utilize13:40
timeless_mbpthere's a great um.. thing?13:40
timeless_mbpMacer: on the topic of follows the same theme13:41
timeless_mbpthis "game" requires you to hit the same point on the screen giving a fixed starting point13:41
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* timeless_mbp frowns13:42
timeless_mbpi also think they're having trouble counting13:42
timeless_mbpi think they told me to count to 4, but i ended up at 513:42
timeless_mbpoh good13:43
timeless_mbpthey have an Execution point13:43
timeless_mbpwho can we execute?13:43
timeless_mbpcan we spend points for each Execution? i have lots of points :)13:44
timeless_mbpok, it's LunchOClock13:44
timeless_mbptime to munch13:44
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LiraNunasuccess! I got gcc 4.4 targeting maemo on x86_6413:54
LiraNunamaemo4 at least13:55
rkirtiLiraNuna: wow :)13:55
LiraNunaanyone interested in build instructions?13:56
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qwerty12_N800You can also install the cs2007/2008 toolchain for scratchbox & set up a new target. that's how I did it last time :)13:57
LiraNunabut that's using gcc 3.413:58
qwerty12_N800Not with a new toolchain installed13:58
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LiraNunayou can't install the toolchain on 64bit though13:59
LiraNunaat least without hacking14:00
kyndelardman|afk: oh, got it now. opening SDL_mixer causes the scaling_min_freq to jump to 400000. this is good, since I can easily close it when there little going on.14:00
qwerty12_N800Yeah, I'm using a 32-bit system here...14:00
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LiraNunaqwerty12_N800, I don't :) and installing the official SDK is a mess14:00
qwerty12_N800yeah :)14:01
LiraNunaso I compiled my own toolchain14:01
LiraNunaI might document it on my site so other people may benefit from it14:03
LiraNunahacking libc wasn't fun, it's all hardcoded14:04
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t_s_ough, i really hope this "rover" is a very bad hoax...14:07
Jaffat_s_o: signs point to "not hoax"14:07
t_s_oye gods...14:08
jeremiah_afkIt is a little disappointing that the screen is getting smaller.14:08
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JaffaIf nothing else, the "Rover" name wasn't very well known - and ties in with an accidental commit to a changelog containing it, and a mention about it - the day before the leak - on the Beagle Board thread.14:08
jeremiah_I don't think Rover is such a bad name.14:09
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X-FadeIf anything, it would be just a code name? Like Selene was for N810?14:11
thuxcar name isn't it? rover14:11
t_s_oi just find those images somewhat "funny", as the latest seems to have basically pasted a screenshot of maemo4 on top of the render mobilecrunch presented, along with buttons from the N81014:11
X-FadeThose are all space related terms btw.14:11
t_s_otho that small green shape at the edge of the image is confusing me14:11
X-FadeWe had Sputnik, Gagarin, Selene and now Rover14:12
LiraNunathose aren't the N810 buttons14:12
LiraNunathe space bar is different14:12
t_s_obut the best bit is the amount of heavy compression artifacts...14:12
mavhcwhere are these images?14:13
JaffaOh, yeah, I guess it's a codename; but the fact it was a fairly secret codename - and now being mentioned in the leak - firms the leak up.14:13
JaffaCombined with the comments from Texrat and Mara on tmo; it looks pretty accurate14:13
t_s_ofunny thing tho, the cellpassion image, where slashgear got it i belive, is named lowres_nokrover.jpg...14:14
jjoLiraNuna: how would you make the installation better?14:14
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LiraNunajjo, add native support for 64bit as well as include documentation for the brave ones who want to compile their own toolchain14:15
LiraNunaI had to use the libc6 and libc6-dev packages from maemo to generate my own libc for bootstrap14:16
LiraNunaand most of the symlinked were hardcoded to use /lib/*.so14:16
t_s_oLiraNuna: now that you have drawn my attention to it, yes the space is different, but different in that its the same graphic as used in the full screen on-screen keyboard14:16
kyndelardman|afk: thanks! got it. I'll just close the SDL_mixer when there nothing going on and the scaling_min_freq indeed drops back to 16500014:16
LiraNunat_s_o, now that you mention it, it does look like it14:16
jjoLiraNuna: thanks :)14:17
LiraNunathere's also no Chr key14:17
JaffaLiraNuna: Or Fn14:17
LiraNunajjo, are you the maemo sdk maintainer?14:17
jjopart of the fremantle team, yes14:17
LiraNunaI didn't mean to criticize or anything :(14:17
jjoI didn't take it like that14:18
jeremiah_jjo: Good to see people lik you hanging out here. :)14:18
LiraNunaI'm used to compiling me own toolchains14:18
jeremiah_And by lik I mean like.14:18
LiraNunaI got ~10 cross compilers at my workstation14:18
jjowe've triedt to make the installation as easy as possible, but still please the legal department14:18
jjo64-bit is problematic though14:18
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jeremiah_jjo: The problem is the legal department. :P14:19
t_s_ohmm, they could have yanked the keys from the N810W, except the symbols are blue, not orange14:19
LiraNunajjo, how come? maybe I can help14:19
LiraNunat_s_o, I got an N810WE and it has the same keyboard as N81014:19
LiraNunajust orange14:19
t_s_oyep, i just wondered where a potential image edit may get some white on black keys, as the N810 was black on silver...14:20
jjother isn't a 64-bit scratchbox and no real support for that14:20
LiraNunaoh, I don't know how scratchbox works14:21
Stskeepsisn't sb2 the sdk future though?14:21
LiraNunaI think it's a combination of qemu and maemo for i386?14:21
jjosb2 is one option14:21
X-FadeStskeeps: Fremantle beta is still sb1, so I guess that they won't switch official ones before release ;)14:22
jjoit would solve some problems but also introduce new ones14:22
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jjostill, fremantle will use sb114:22
LiraNunajjo, can you explain how scratchbox works?14:22
jjounfortunately I'm not a scratchbox expert :(14:23
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Stskeepsi'm not sure many people are14:23
jjosuihkulokki or jumpula might be able to help there14:23
rmt_LiraNuna, Yes, qemu plus lots of directory linking to setup a runtime environment.. SB2 is much nicer than SB1.. I setup SB2 in a 32bit ubuntu chroot, since I use 64bit ubuntu.14:24
LiraNunais the 64bit problem[s?] from qemu or something else?14:26
jumpulasimply put scratchbox is just a chroot with host tools inside /scratchbox and target stuff inside the normal system paths + some cpu transparency and redirection magic14:27
jumpula(talking about sb1 of course)14:27
jumpulaLiraNuna: do you have a more specific question in mind?14:28
jeremiah_jumpula: If it is just a chroot - why not use cowbuilder or pbuilder from debian?14:28
LiraNunajumpula, not really and sorry if I'm bothering people, I've never used scratchbox14:28
jumpulathey don't have host tools (including cross compiler) and cpu transparency methods14:28
jeremiah_jumpula: You can add those with apt14:29
jeremiah_At runtime.14:29
jumpulahost tools means this case tools for your host's architecture (the one you're doing cross compiling with)14:29
jeremiah_Right. Just call apt and pull them into the live chroot.14:30
jumpulajeremiah_: yes, but then they're target architecture14:30
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jeremiah_Why can't the mechanisms used in sb be moved into cowbuilder? Since it is Copy on write it feels much faster than sb.14:33
jeremiah_Plus any simplification of the build toolchain I think would be welcomed by developers.14:33
jumpulai have never tried cowbuilder, so can't really say14:34
jumpulathere are quite many ways to do cross platform development, sb1 being one option14:34
jeremiah_jumpula: Yeah. I don't mean to sound critical, I realize it is a complicated process for you guys what with the legal and technical issues.14:35
jumpulaor rather, building a rootstrap for target architecture other than then host you're using.14:35
LiraNuna--host=arm-linux-gnueabi anyone14:35
Stskeepsjeremiah_: full system emulation is a heck lot slower than user level emulation14:36
jumpulafrom the gnu software stack, there's not many that can be configured to crosscompile nicely14:36
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jeremiah_Stskeeps: True.14:37
LiraNunajumpula, true - but I have done it so many times I know my way around it14:37
Stskeepsjeremiah_: sb2 is going in the right direction with proper qemu user level emulation and support for cross compilers14:37
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Stskeeps(as is OBS)14:37
jumpulathere are people that know their way around it, but usually stuff like that means extra work.14:38
Jaffadneary: I'd love to thanks you for - but doing so may detract from your message, and pull you into the conspiracy14:38
jumpulasb1 one of the design principles was that if you have for example a debian package you want to compile to a different architecture *without modifying the package and building all the dependencies with it* you can easily do that with sb114:39
jumpulaand the fact that the tools native to your host architecture run faster when compared to everything run under emulation14:39
jumpula*in sb114:40
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jeremiah_jumpula: Hmm. Those are pretty smart design principles.14:41
jumpulait's a hack and not even a pretty one, but for that particular purpose it suits quite well :)14:41
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LiraNunawhat would be my legal obligation if I upload a fixed (structure wise, code/binary is 1:1) version of maemo4 glibc suitable for bootstrapping GCC for cross compilation?14:42
LiraNunaupload = distribute14:42
LiraNunaI want to write a guide in my site to help other people compile their own maemo toolchain, but the process of getting libc together is not very pleasent and I'd like to give a pre-structured version of it included14:43
LiraNunathe files were taken from the debian packages of maemo (libc6, libc6-dev and linux-headers)14:44
jeremiah_LiraNuna: Look at the licenses of the software you want to distribute.14:44
jeremiah_If you can take all that code directly from debian and have it do what you want, you should have no problem.14:45
jeremiah_LiraNuna: The second you include proprietary blobs you are in trouble.14:45
LiraNunajeremiah_, those are libc from debian, and according to the GPL I must supply source by demand, which is not in my possession14:46
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infobotLiraNuna meant: jeremiah_, those are libc from maemo, and according to the GPL I must supply source by demand, which is not in my possession14:46
Stskeepsput the source out along with it?14:46
LiraNunaStskeeps, I don't know where it is..14:46
jeremiah_apt-get source?14:47
LiraNunaoh, if so, I can just redirect14:47
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lcukxnt14[ipod], damn you i replied last night14:51
lcukbut you had gone14:51
xnt14[ipod]sorry, I had to go to sleep, I literally fell asleep on the keyboard, I just pulled the cord and went to bed :P/:(14:52
xnt14[ipod]just pm me the log14:52
lcuknahhh u missed it14:52
lcukits gone now into the ether :P14:52
xnt14[ipod]im registering my nick(s)14:52
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z4chhi think ill buy a cheap n810 battery on ebay so i can keep my n810 on the charger for long periods of time14:58
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oDudahello all 114:59
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LiraNunahello oDuda 215:03
oDudaI was removing gizmo and made a script to do this... with the score of dkpg listing... the scripts only run with sudo command and give me no results messages... any idea ?15:04
oDudaLiraNuna hahahahha Hello !15:04
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LiraNunaoh, those weren't serial numbers?15:04
oDudano ! index numbers only hehe15:04
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oDudathat 1 would be a ! ... heheh15:05
oDudaagain hello all !15:05
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oDudahi !15:06
oDudahi sanjay597615:07
oDuda69.. hehe15:07
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sanjay6976hi oDuda15:07
oDudahi mib_2u3c5815:07
mib_2u3c58i want to ask a question.15:08
oDudajust ask ! somebody will see it !15:08
mib_2u3c58thank you!15:08
sanjay6976i am installing Qt4.5 on maemo 4.1.2 so while i give qmake -qt4 -v i am getting an error segmentation fault (core dumped)15:09
sanjay6976any idea15:09
oDudame not sanjay6976 - sorry !15:10
sanjay6976oDuda:k thanks15:11
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oDudasanjay6976 - just you saw ?15:12
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mib_fgp5xui want to find the header of a class or i should do?15:14
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qwerty12_N800lizardo, thanks for the email on -developers! reassuring to see that debian build log :)15:15
lizardoqwerty12_N800: yeah, they keep the build logs for all packages there , so it is a good reference to see if some warnings are expected or not :)15:16
qwerty12_N800Will remember that :)15:17
mib_fgp5xui want to know where is the function's header.15:18
minran900 looks like a great phone15:18
mib_fgp5xuhow to find15:18
mib_fgp5xuanybody know?15:18
minrai end up searching manually mib_fgp5xu15:19
minragrep -r helps15:19
sanjay6976i am installing Qt4.5 on maemo 4.1.2 so while i give qmake -qt4 -v i am getting an error segmentation fault (core dumped)15:20
sanjay6976for DIABLO_ARMEL15:20
minrawho here do you thnk knows what you are talking bout sanjay6976 ?15:21
jeremiah_sanjay6976: You can look at core dumps in the GNU debugger15:21
jeremiah_Look at gdb for help15:21
minrameta-help ftw15:21
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LiraNunawhere can I find a maemo4 rootfs?15:44
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qwerty12_N800rootfs or bootstrap for your toolchain setup?15:46
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LiraNunascratchbox2 bootstrap15:49
LiraNunaapparently scratchbox2 is in ubuntu's repos15:49
jumpulait's been a while there15:50
jumpulashould be in debian sid too15:50
LiraNunaI want to see how well it works on 64bit15:50
qwerty12_N800LiraNuna, (not sure if it's a sbox1 only rootstrap, if it can be used on both or if sbox2 has its own one)
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LiraNunawoot, thank you qwerty12_N80015:52
LiraNunayou've been a lot of help15:52
* Stskeeps passes qwerty12_N800 a cookie15:52
* qwerty12_N800 takes it, greatfully, thanks15:53
LiraNunaseems like it doesn't like gnueabi15:55
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mib_xgmlnvhow to find function header,anybody know?15:56
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mib_xgmlnvi am a newbie,who can answer for me thanks15:58
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mib_xgmlnvhow to find function header,anybody know15:58
mib_xgmlnvhow to find function header,anybody know?15:58
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* jeremiah_ wonders where his cookie is.16:00
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RST38hmoo wazd16:05
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wazdRST38h: heya16:06
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AStormmib_xgmlnv, which function, what file, wtf? or are you some trollness?16:07
AStormusually it's in some .h file (or .hpp for c++ headers sometimes) - check your include statements16:08
AStormother than that, this is the wrong channel16:08
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mib_xgmlnvAStorm,i want to know the location of some functon and look the description ralative to them,how do?16:12
mib_xgmlnvthank you ?16:12
AStormmib_xgmlnv, grep might be of some use too16:13
mib_xgmlnvgrep is slow and block16:13
AStormyes, it is, but it will find what you want *if* it's in your package16:13
AStormit might be system or library include - then check your #include16:14
AStormif it's a system header (usually with <>, but not always), try the manpage16:14
mib_xgmlnvthis is for all function in maemo 4.1.216:15
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mib_xgmlnvall can be found?16:15
mib_xgmlnvi want to find some function or class16:15
mib_xgmlnvthere is lot of function i am not familar with16:16
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Maceryou can tell that the actress that plays abby is on drugs16:47
Maceror drunk... or something16:47
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Stskeepsabby.. west wing or some other?16:48
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lbtand she's actually just a good actress.16:49
Macerlbt: i've only seen her on ncis16:50
Macerin which i think she is kind of annoying16:50
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Macerwtf is a perky goth girl?16:50
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Stskeepsyou obviously haven't spent enough time with perky goth girls16:51
Macerno can't say i have16:51
Maceri thought the whole point of being goth was to be all dreary16:51
Stskeepsyou're thinking about emos16:52
* nomis knows a perky goth girl. Married and has a kid.16:53
* Stskeeps doesn't wear eyeliner, dark nail polish or has long dark hair.. anymore16:54
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MacerStskeeps: hahah16:56
RST38hSts: Do you still feel like making a bloody sacrifice at the altar of an ancient horned deity?16:58
StskeepsRST38h: occasionally when discussing with luke-jr16:58
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RST38hSts: then you are ok =)17:03
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__thi, does anyone know if peter schneider still works for nokia and how to reach him?17:09
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roopeYes, Peter works.17:10
roopePeter is Peter@Maemo marketing in the Talk forums.17:10
roope(oh, I guess you just posted that anyway. :)17:11
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lcukdid anyone work out if all the specs stuff on the web was leaked or if it was officially pushed?17:12
Bobbedidn't see anybody from nokia pronounce at itt (except Quim going like "You're kidding, right?" about Nokia validation at that time), so i guess not17:13
Stskeepsthey probably leaked it so the flames would go out at iTT ;p17:13
Bobbeyeap, exactly what I was typing17:14
Bobbethat mockup in mobilecrunch, tho, disheartening...17:14
Stskeepsi still think it's a shovel intended to get more people to use maemo17:15
Stskeepsi would have done similar17:15
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Bobbeeven with a smaller screen? Didn't they know they would make people cry and spit and rip off their beards?17:16
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, yes, but with a device that was actually worth leaking the details of, I hope?17:16
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Jaffalcuk: If the release dates are being stuck to a convenient "leak" may help; but I doubt Nokia's marketing dept. likes leaks, being the big old company that they are17:17
* Jaffa needs to go and handle a G1, since they're so similar in size.17:17
* RST38h found and killed 8 copies of Modest running in background on his N81017:17
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RST38hAnyone else encountered THIS particular glitch?17:17
X-FadeRST38h: 8 threads probably?17:18
JamieBennettJaffa Maybe a iPhone is a better comparison size wise17:18
RST38hJaffa: Just imagine that your screen shrunk to the size of the application area in Diablo17:18
BobbeRST38h, can't say. I configured it yesterday and it didn't download any e-mails yet to nag me with17:18
RST38hJaffa: It is not going to kill anyone, but is kinda uncomfortable17:18
RST38hBobbe: Oh, I no longer expect it to download anything17:18
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RST38hBobbe: It hangs all the time irreversiblyy17:19
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RST38hX-Fade: Well, each had its own memory (and quite a lot of it)17:19
__troope: do you know some phonenumber or where to find? i cant find something at userpage of peter@maemo .17:19
BobbeAt least they admit it's a crappy e-mail client17:19
BobbeI heard this lecture from a top guy at nokia17:19
Macerdoes ssl encrypt the whole connection?17:19
Bobbecan't remember who17:19
Bobbebut he admitted17:19
X-FadeWe're talking about a 1.5cm diagonal difference. This is not a lot ;)17:20
RST38hBobbe: Admitting that one of core device use scenarios does not work is kinda...insufficient, don't you think?17:20
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X-Fadefrom 10.4 to 8.9cm..17:20
BobbeRST38h, absolutely. In comes Claws ;)17:20
RST38hX-Fade: When reading, every cm counts17:21
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X-FadeRST38h: Still a few years before we can fold out our big oled :)17:21
JaffaJamieBennett: G1 is closer thickness:
X-FadeFolding is the only thing that makes sense for pocket devices?17:22
RST38hX-Fade: I do not think so17:22
X-FadeAs small as possible in your pocket, bigger when opened?17:22
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RST38hX-Fade: Easier (technically) method would be to have two halves of the screen shifting vertically17:23
JaffaX-Fade: I've not done the maths, but 1.5cm diagonal difference is probably a large %ge in terms of viewable area17:23
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X-FadeJaffa: Yes, RST38h approximation was about correct.17:23
RST38hX-Fade: This way you can still hold it in one hand, you do not have that mechanical difficulty of a fold, and you get dimensiosns of a book page17:24
X-FadeJaffa: The app area of diablo.17:24
JaffaX-Fade: Indeed17:24
X-FadeJaffa: But it also means that the device fits inside the screen of the n810 (almost)17:25
wazdThe first thing to make me think it's fake is release dates17:25
RST38hX-Fade: Still, I think that just using N810 display removing all border would do the trick17:25
RST38hwazd: Why?17:25
wazdRST38h: July on T-Mobile - Don't think so17:25
X-FadeRST38h: Yes, I'm for an all screen device too. But yeah, what can I do about that ;)17:25
RST38hX-Fade: and adding goddamn dpad on the back17:25
RST38hwazd: it is 100% believable schedule, if you assume that T-Mobile paid them shitload of money for the exclusive launch17:26
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RST38hX-Fade: Get a SmartQ 5? :)17:26
JaffaIt's also entirely believable given the dates discussed last September.17:27
wazdRST38h: no "real" Beta SDK now, and it's June, Nokia really think that the Stars would be ready in 1 month?)17:27
RST38hwazd: ...and now holds them by the balls until October17:27
JaffaNow, whether that's likely for current dates...17:27
Jaffawazd: Err, we've got the "real" beta SDK (haven't we?)17:27
RST38hwazd: I do not think the part of Nokia responsible for the device release cares about this17:27
RST38hJaffa: Too many parts missing (or that is my perception alone?)17:28
JaffaRST38h: Lots of parts missing, not much for "typical" app development AIUI17:28
lcukX-Fade, did you get my mail about the formatting? is there anything that can be done?17:28
RST38hJaffa: Then it is not beta SDK really17:28
Jaffai.e. SDK doesn't really need final app switching UI; or a web browser17:28
lcukthx jaffa17:28
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RST38hJaffa: It is an alpha quickly refreshed for that dev meeting17:29
X-Fadelcuk: Haven't seen it yet?17:29
wazdJaffa: what we have now is "sort of" beta SDK :)17:29
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wazdJaffa: "to be continued" Beta SDK :D17:29
Jaffawazd / RST38h: your definitions don't have to match Nokia's.17:29
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RST38hJaffa: They do not, true17:29
lcukahhh X-Fade i sent you a mail over the weekend after i posted a slashdot journal, the formatting on planet for my posting is screwed17:29
lcukand the youtube link is merged with the next line :$17:30
RST38hJaffa: What wazd (and me) are trying to say is that the current "beta" SDK is kinda raw for a beta17:30
JaffaBut anyway, the mobilecrunch thing said "as at the start of the year" - lots of time for slippage17:30
X-Fadelcuk: Still not using a proper blog? :)17:30
wazdJaffa: Ture but we still can't properly develop our software to make it use a maximum of the device17:30
X-Fadewazd: As long as there is no complete device emulator, you will always have that problem.17:31
Jaffawazd: agreed, but I wouldn't hold my breath for another big release. On the flip side, look at the Conboy screenshots: it's looking fantastic in the SDK17:31
lcukX-Fade, slashdot is a proper place lol,17:31
wazdJaffa: And Nokia wrote Vlad if he can change OMWeather settings to make them more finger-friendly17:31
wazdJaffa: How the hell I can judge if UI is friendly or not if I even don't know the screen diagonal?)17:32
lcukisnt it pretty much still the same size?17:32
lcukdidnt x-fade just say less than 2cm difference17:33
wazdlcuk: well, there are rumors that it's 3/5@17:33
Maceranybody here try out sctp?17:33
lcukwazd, either way theres not much in it - the problems you are envisaging would come if you tried to use 800*480 on a 12" screen17:34
* lcuk knows cos liqbase feels like a toy on his big laptop17:35
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wazdlcuk: 2cm is a pretty big difference :)17:35
X-Fadewazd: 1.5 ;)17:35
X-Fadeagain a big difference over 2 ;)17:36
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Bobbeargh, I just wish they came clean already17:36
X-FadeBobbe: What's the fun in that?17:36
Aveis it possible to install tear into stock diablo-setup?17:36
* lcuk has no problems with scale, everything is dynamic :)17:36
AveI dont want to install mer just because of tera17:36
Bobbeave, qole.org17:37
Bobbeadd his repo, tear will be there17:37
wazdWell, I've found a way to pass that problem - just to base on SDK elements sizes17:37
lcukwazd, if 1.5cm is the difference between a system working and not working then you have bigger problems17:37
Bobbewith dependencies =)17:37
lcukthink of all the other devices mer is being ported to17:37
lcukhow on earth are you gonna cope with different resolutions17:37
AveBobbe: thanks17:37
lcukand formats and dpis17:37
Stskeepsso far it's actually going fine17:38
AveI did find out where to get tear, but not dependencies ..17:38
* RST38h can probably forgive the screen and the lack of dpad, and more stuff too, as long as N900 replaces his phone17:38
wazdlcuk: it's not about "working", it's about "finger-friendliness"17:38
lcukyes wazd, so how are you gonna cope with what i said?17:38
lcukthe freerunner doesnt have as many pixels etc17:38
Aveoh noes, the "n900" rumours here too huh, I just managed to wade thru the tmo thread17:38
wazdlcuk: and honestly it sucks :D17:38
lcukthe zaurus as well17:38
* X-Fade wonders why the 'phone' doesn't have typicall nokia red an green button.17:38
RST38hwazd: BTW, some Finnish guy contacted me and asked for ATI sources17:39
lcukand you might use it on a higher dpi device17:39
AveX-Fade: soft buttons maybe?17:39
RST38hwazd: Going to port them to Freeriunner17:39
lcukbasically, your ui could adapt to the conditions around17:39
X-FadeOr it isn't a phone ;)17:39
RST38hwazd: I gave him the source code, just not sure what he is going to do with the images :)17:39
X-FadeThat is the fun thing about speculating.17:40
RST38hX-Fade: it does not have any buttons to begin with, so that stuff may be purely in software :)17:41
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X-FadeI can easily see on guy mixing a t-mobile data plan and it being a phone.17:41
X-FadeAnd then it goes off from there.17:41
RST38hX-Fade: If it is not a phone though, I am just taking 5800.17:41
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wazdlcuk: it adapts, but not for all conditions in the world :)17:41
X-FadeRST38h: Yeah, buttons on the screen would easily be possible.17:41
X-FadeJust like we have voip calls now.17:42
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RST38hX-Fade: Would make perfect sense to me, too, given that it is not Symbian so those three buttons are not mandatory17:42
lcukwazd, never said it has to, but fractional differences as it appears to be in this leaked sace wouldnt matter SO much surely?   as you said you are gonna use the dimensions gtk provides which is good :)17:42
lcukcase ^17:42
wazdholy crap, I've got an idea17:44
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wazdRST38h: for the UI, gotta draw it right now :)17:45
wazdRST38h: bout ATi btw, I won't redraw faceplates for 640x480 :)17:47
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RST38hwazd: THAT I knew :)17:47
RST38hwazd: So if that guy wants to port really badly, he will have to learn some pixel art :)17:48
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wazdI love photoshop)))17:51
luke-jryou fail17:51
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wazdContent-aware scale of the faceplate :)17:52
kfxlooks like liquid rescale17:52
X-FadeAnd you made typo ;)17:53
X-Fadeas it is 650 ;)17:53
X-FadeAh, dynamic panning?17:54
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wazdX-Fade: sort of17:55
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RST38hwazd: how did the second one work?17:56
X-FadeRST38h: Open in 2 tabs and switch between them.17:56
RST38hbuttons are there, screen is there, what got cut???17:56
wazdRST38h: they became tinnier :)17:57
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wazdRST38h: thinner17:57
RST38hah buttons got squished!17:57
* luke-jr squishes RST38h's buttons.17:57
wazdRST38h: and they all are different sizes now :)17:57
RST38hluke-jr: including the big red one?17:58
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RST38hHeaven! Heaven!18:08
* RST38h switched from Modest to Claws and *finally* found what a working mail client should look like18:08
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StskeepsRST38h: i had same feeling18:09
Corsacyeah, just too bad claws sucks at icon theming18:10
Corsacand is so painful to configure :)18:10
Stskeepson the other hand its not painful when done18:10
* RST38h is ok with Claws icons18:11
RST38hConfiguration is also ok, there is too many options but configuring "Basic" is sufficient18:12
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JaffaRST38h: BTW, did the last update to the calc emulator include the bigger button targets that someone did on tmo?18:29
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RST38hJaffa: Nope18:33
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RST38hJaffa: The guy took the button data and disappeared18:33
coldbootHow do you install "find" in scratchbox?18:34
RST38hWhich I kinda expected anyway :)18:34
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coldbootapt-get install findutils doesn't get anything.18:34
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JaffaRST38h: I was sure I saw him post one model updates18:34
coldbootScratchbox 2, I mean.18:34
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qwerty12_N800RST38h, #28 in your almostti 1.3 released thread :)18:35
JaffaRST38h: Quick search - can't find thread <shrug/>18:37
Jaffaqwerty12_N800: Ta18:37
qwerty12_N800Fuck, my wrists will thank me if I IRC from my desktop18:37
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derfYes, don't say "desktop" in here. It's not polite.18:40
qwerty12That's better.18:40
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coldbootDoes anyone actually use scratchbox 2?18:47
coldbootIs there a good place to discuss scratchbox at all? The mailing list is basically dead.18:47
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rmt_coldboot, Yes, I use sb2.. it works fine.19:02
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Stskeepswb qwerty1219:10
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Stskeepslo AndrewBlack19:11
qwerty12Thank you, Stskeeps19:11
qwerty12hi AndrewBlack19:12
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AndrewBlackWell I see the world hasn't come to an end yet after New Tablet Stats got leaked19:13
StskeepsAndrewBlack: it's bloody chose19:13
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Bobbe400+ posts in two days19:15
AndrewBlackwell I only hate one thing and thats screen size but I knew it was coming19:18
coldbootAndrewBlack: Hate about what?19:19
BobbeI don't really care for the d-pad-less thing19:19
AndrewBlackcoldboot: new tablet specs19:19
coldbootAndrewBlack: Where are these specs?19:19
AndrewBlackI could do without the t-mobile also19:19
AndrewBlackcoldboot: look on t.m.o19:19
Bobbeoh, I don't even look at that19:20
coldbootAndrewBlack: Where is tmo?19:20
* Bobbe Brazilian19:20
BobbeI know they'll sell it unlocked tho19:20
Jaffacoldboot: http://talk.maemo.org19:20
Bobbemy question is just how much it'll be19:20
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Bobbeor if they will eventually sell it here with brazilian carriers19:20
AndrewBlackyeah but for how much more lol19:20
Bobbewell, prospects are not very good19:20
coldbootWhat don't you like about the screen?19:21
Bobben800 is currently R$600 (around RS300 bucks)19:21
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lcukbrazzilian carriers, do they wear funky costumes and dance whilst they lift you?19:21
BobbeN810 is R$1,000 (around $500)19:21
Abulafiathen they strip you19:21
Bobbelcuk, yeah, right after they rip you off in smitherins'19:21
coldbootWow it looks about as crappy as the n810 is.19:21
coldbootI doubt you'll be able to type on that thing either.19:22
Bobbebut there's one huge advantage here19:22
Bobbecontracts are usually 1-year ones, not 219:22
Bobbealso, do u have portability in the us? do u get to keep the same number even if u change carriers?19:23
Bobbeus and/or canada and/or europe, I mean19:23
coldbootI think you can keep the same number in Canada now.19:23
Abulafiai wish the keyboard on the n810 were as good as my tilt19:23
Abulafiabobbe, yes, with some caveats19:23
BobbeI wish it was like the HTC Dortress, or the E7519:24
Bobbesame here =(19:24
AndrewBlackI havn't seen a 1 year contract in us in a long time19:24
Abulafiai took my 212 landline to my cell19:24
Bobbeour contracts are always 1-year19:24
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Bobbei got my e71 for sth like $99 in a one-year contracyt19:24
Bobbeof course, internet prices here are OUTRAGEOUS19:25
BobbeHome internet and my cell phone's 3g add up to a hundred US$ a month19:25
Stskeepsquestion - who knows who's more of less in charge of the Maemo/ part of the danish weekend?19:26
Stskeepshighest ranking would be keesj in :P19:26
Abulafiayou own your POTS number, probably can port your cell, you cannot port a number from a voip service19:27
coldbootBobbe: In the US?19:27
Abulafiain the Us19:27
Bobbein brazil19:27
BobbeAround R$200 = US$10019:27
Bobbethat's what I pay here19:27
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Bobbeanyways, gotta go work19:28
Bobbecya guys19:28
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radicgoi qwerty1219:30
n6pfkHow do I get festival light installed and working with maemo-mapper?19:30
radicmaemomapper slows the N800 down...19:30
n6pfkIs there a better free navigation application?19:31
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binkyHi everyone19:46
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JaffaStskeeps: qgil?19:46
StskeepsJaffa: i guess19:47
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Stskeepsi just posted in the thread about my thoughts for good measure19:47
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binkyAnyone can help? I have OS2007HE, and I have an ext3 partition on my MMC, but I can't mount it, what can i do?19:48
Stskeepsinsmod mbcache jbd ext3 from initfs19:48
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JaffaStskeeps: just saw19:49
* Jaffa would love to herd y'all, but I'm attending a non-lardman wedding19:50
Stskeepsat least it seems like summit is well planned19:50
binkyStskeeps, what means from "initfs"? I just have basic notions... =/19:52
Stskeepsbinky: /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.16*/19:52
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konttorilcuk: i'm watching the libqbase now19:55
CutMeOwnThroatkfx, k... if ever I remember what I wanted to say :)19:55
konttorireally cool19:55
konttorido you have the new device?19:56
konttorii wonder how great it runs on that19:56
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lcukkonttori send me one and ill let you know :D19:57
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konttoriwerent you suposed to get one?19:57
binkyStskeeps, I'm surely an idiot, but I can't get it to work19:57
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konttoribad typing. baby on right shoulder19:57
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Jaffakonttori: did you get my email about usbcontrol btw? Dunno if your is still working/checked19:58
binkyHola, lopz, eres español?19:58
lopzbinky, hi, yes, and you?19:59
lcukkonttori, :D rate the video (with baby on shoulder lol)20:00
binkylopz, too, from El Ejido, Almería20:00
lcuki told you at the summit i had an idea about search20:00
lopzbinky, oh yeah, speak spanish? xD20:00
binkylopz, I'd speak it, but I don't want to flood the RIC channel in spanish and talking about us20:01
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lopzbinky, ok20:09
lopzbinky, /query ?20:10
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binkylopz, ok20:13
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fiferboylbt: ping20:16
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lbtfiferboy: pong20:17
lbthow are you?20:17
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fiferboyI'm good.  You?20:17
lbtsun is shining!20:17
fiferboyHuh, it's our first overcast day here in about a week.20:18
fiferboylbt: I've been reading through some git docs, and a familiar name keeps coming up as the author...20:19
lbtmore editor20:19
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fiferboyHave you been involved in it since the start?20:20
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lbtI was involved for the very first 6-9 months20:20
fiferboyThat's a cool project to be part of20:21
lbtyeah, it was nice to see it grow; and I like to think that takeup wouldn't have been so good without decent docs ;)20:22
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fiferboyI find doc writing to be a very hard thing to be motivated to do20:23
* fiferboy looks at his 10% complete birdlist help files20:23
lbtme too20:23
GeneralAntillesThanks, dneary.20:23
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: Thanks for what?20:27
minraactually leaked specs of n900 are awesome if you think of it as a phone20:27
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minraand ppl i show n810 say its too big for a phone20:28
dnearyah - them & us?20:28
GeneralAntillesdneary, a dose of rationality.20:29
minraand aqwedcxy make a better dpad than n810 dpad20:29
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fiferboylbt: Something is out-of-whack with the finger scroll bars in Fremantle20:30
fiferboyYour finger scrolling code works for every widget, but the scroll bars only get themed for some...20:30
lbtin Fremantle?20:31
lbton the SDK ?20:31
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fiferboylbt: Yes.  It must be where I am applying the theming20:33
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fiferboyI haven't found any cases where the finger scrolling itself doesn't work20:33
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lbtok, that's good news...20:37
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fiferboylbt: What do you know - after removing some self-defeating code (mine) it works as expected20:46
wazdfiferboy: heya20:46
fiferboywazd: Hey, how's it going?20:47
wazdfiferboy: fine, hardly working on OMweather for Fremantle20:47
fiferboywazd: How's it looking?20:47
wazdfiferboy: I see you're doing some Fremantle stuff too?20:47
fiferboywazd: Testing out some changes to Qt in Fremantle20:48
wazdfiferboy: something like this: but way cooler :)20:48
wazdfiferboy: it's flash, you can click it :)20:48
fiferboywazd: Whoa, that's pretty sweet20:49
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wazdfiferboy: now thinking bout "settings" improvements20:50
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lardmanhmm, that Fujitsu thing does look quite tempting21:05
Jaffalardman: Which one?21:06
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amranyone know if you can select which folders you want to 'subscribe' to over imap on the built in mail client?21:08
lardmanJaffa: u81021:08
lardmanI actually need an ultraportable windows machine, so am all the more tempted21:08
lardman5.6" screen21:09
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JaffaPricey, IIRC?21:12
lardmannot so bad nowadays <£500 I think from a quick Google Shopping search21:12
JaffaHmm, interesting21:13
minranot bad for x8621:13
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lardmanbattery life is supposed to be ~5.5hr for DVD playback (from external drive), which is reasonable21:14
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lcukanyone know where i put a .gitignore file?   does it go in ~ or in the folder i want to ignore stuff from, or somewhere in the .git stuff21:14
derfI've got one in the repository root. I didn't put it there, but it seems like a good place to me.21:17
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Jaffalcuk: folder you want to ignore stuff IIRC21:20
* lcuk heh @ the same range of answers the net gave me 21:20
lcukderf just in the normal root?21:20
lcukdo i have to add that to git itself so when i move the repo it will copy those ignores?21:21
derflcuk: Yes. In the same directory as .git, but not actually in .git.21:21
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derflcuk: I presume that's how I got my copy.21:21
lcukheh ok21:21
derfSince, as I said, I'm not the one who made it.21:21
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lcuki wonder if the universe explodes if you ignore the .ignore files21:22
lcukthanks jaffa :$ i was trying to get simple once and for all solution - i keep adding folders21:22
Stskeepsi wonder if the universe explodes if we run android on top of mer inside easy mer on maemo21:22
lcukpics or it didnt happen21:22
lcuktaken with an old style camera (on a wooden table), developed at boots, scanned in, pasted into word, faxed across and OCRed at the other end21:23
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binkyStskeeps, I finally managed it to work. It was like you said, but I did not understand it lol21:31
binkyStskeeps,<your version>/mer-armel-770-image-v<your version>.tar.gz  Modifying it with 0.13 instead of your version doesn't work. That file doesn't exist.21:32
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Stskeepsyes, we have no 770 version for 0.1321:32
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Stskeepsgrab 0.1221:32
binkyStskeeps, ok. But, it's 770 version abandonned or just no release of this version?21:32
Stskeepsno release of 0.13, i posted about it on iTT - it requires someone sitting down and making the kernel package for 77021:33
Stskeepsand that's about it21:33
Stskeepswe just didnt have time21:33
binkyOok, thank you!.21:33
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nickar_Hi All!!!!, first time here!!, Nickar from Argentina says hello!!! :D21:57
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lcukhello nickar from argentina!21:59
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nickar_Icuk, let me say that what you are doing with maemo!!!22:01
nickar_can you sign my n810!! :P22:01
coldbootSo much enthusiasm.22:01
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lcuk:D nickar_ please rate my videos and make comments about them and tell people :)22:03
lcukbut thank you!!! i like what im doing too22:03
LiraNunaanyone have any documentations about how to set up scratchbox manually?22:03
nickar_that's what i do always!!22:03
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nickar_icuk you do that for living?22:03
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nickar_or just for hobby?22:03
lcukif i did it for a living i would be broke :)22:03
nickar_i understand!!!22:03
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nickar_have you been looking into the android or openmoko phone?22:04
nickar_as a successor of the nit?22:04
nickar_i have a n810, but am not paying attention to it because of work!22:05
nickar_(and because my macbook 13'' that goes with me as my n810 :D)22:05
nickar_a lot of people, very little movement!!! :D22:06
nickar_i would have tought that it would be impossible to talk with so many people connected!22:06
lcukwell, you are in a nokia oriented channel - their speciaility is connecting people :)22:07
nickar_jjajaja, yea, you are right!22:08
Myrttioh, it's only 292 nicks22:08
lcukMyrtti, some folks have never seen irc22:08
nickar_i am not used to this kind of channels22:09
* Myrtti points finger at #ubuntu, with total of 1604 nicks... ;-)22:09
nickar_i usually participate in #bblug and #gulbac22:09
* Myrtti feels old22:09
* lcuk feels Myrtti22:09
* Myrtti slaps lcuk 22:09
nickar_8 and 9 members, but everybody participates22:09
* lcuk walks off sobbing22:09
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lcukMyrtti, hows your thumb22:11
Myrttithe blister is still there (unsurprisingly) but it doesn't hurt anymore22:11
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StskeepsOK, this might get some bad reactions, but: is HIM the only viable thing for Maemo?22:12
Stskeepsi mean, isn't it keeping it back if there exists other stuff like SCIM etc?22:12
Stskeepshildon input method22:12
lcuknoodly appendage?22:12
lcukwhat do you mean Stskeeps22:12
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lcukviable thing22:12
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Stskeepsas in, - why we use it in maemo? :P22:12
lcukviable things in maemo are quite numerous still at this point sts22:13
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fiferboylbt: Okay.  Now it works correctly in Diablo and Fremantle (with appropriate default state), can be globally set true or false with qApp->setProperty, and overridden on a widget-by-widget basis (with widget->setProperty)22:15
LiraNunaanyone have any documentations about how to set up scratchbox manually?22:15
lbtsend me a patch? (or the files)22:16
fiferboylbt: Next I'll check to make sure that the scrolling itself can be globally/widget-by-wdiget overridden.22:16
fiferboylbt: I'll send you the files.  BTW, have you made any recent changes?22:16
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lbtI think the setProperty approach is much better than my api extension22:17
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lbtno, I'm in sync with gitorious for those files22:17
nickar_question: what do you use to irc from NIT, XCHAT???22:17
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fiferboyIt is a little bit hackish the way I check for properties, I think.22:17
nickar_isn't it ugly for that?22:18
fiferboyBut it works in all the cases I have tried.22:18
nickar_is there any other port?22:18
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lbtnb fiferboy you seem to be changing the license text too... just FYI22:18
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fiferboylbt: Where do I do that?  In the source files I sent you?22:19
fiferboyThat's odd.  What kind of changes?22:19
CutMeOwnThroatoh, the default wireless driver on the N810 is closed source, too? Wasn't aware of that until now... how does this stlc45xx google mentions compare to it22:19
lbtwell, the gitorious stuff looks like it's preprocessable... so22:20
lbt+** Commercial Usage22:20
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fiferboylbt: I don't know how that happens.  The line before that is $QT_BEGIN_LICENSE:LGPL$22:21
fiferboyI wonder if it is because I have configured Qt differently in my compile.22:22
fiferboyWhat version of Qt are you synched to?22:22
lbtI also think : Q_OS_FREMANTLE and Q_OS_MER22:23
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lbt1:1 for now...22:23
lbtanyhow... send over the files/patches.... I want to see ;)22:24
* wazd solved "The Settings" case :)22:26
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kkrustywell done moulder22:27
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fiferboylbt: That "Commercial Usage" line is in the SVN file in garage.22:27
lbtodd... ifdef'ed?22:28
fiferboyNo, just like in the source files I sent you.  I wonder why it's not in git22:29
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fiferboylbt: Ah, it looks like the git cloned pre-release code that is non-commercial usage licensed22:30
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wazdbtw, is there any way to make Fremantle show you Portrait oriented window?22:32
wazdFremantle SDK*22:33
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Stskeepspossibly, if you adjust resolution22:33
lcukturn your monitor on its side22:34
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LiraNunaanyone have any documentations about how to set up scratchbox2 manually?22:36
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rmt_LiraNuna, Running Ubuntu/Debina 32bit?22:37
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LiraNunarmt_, 64bit22:38
LiraNunarmt_, I built my own cross compiler, it works well22:38
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LiraNunaI guess it fails to run qemu-arm?22:40
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fiferboylbt: Do you know what the order or inheritance should be for object properties?22:40
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fiferboyI use default -> application -> widget, so if you override the entire application you can still change a single widget later.22:41
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lbtnot sure atm22:42
lbtdo you intend to use the original 3 files and then replace one of them with this latest file?22:43
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lbtor just the lastet file?22:43
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fiferboyOriginal 3 plus the most recent22:45
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fiferboyI was surprised that QObject properties are not inherited from parent widgets.  I had to walk up the inheritance chain to see if it was set on any parent widgets.22:46
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lbtfiferboy: well the 'parent' relationship in that sense is simply a containership and event chain23:05
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fiferboyAh, so properties aren't meant to be inherited.23:05
lbtso it wouldn't really make sense to have properties flow... they're just tags on an instance23:05
fiferboyIt makes it easier for me to have the user set the property on the QTableView instead of trying to find the scroll area portion of it.23:06
fiferboyI can change it though, if we decide against it.23:06
lbtwell, I'd set it on the thing that has a QAbstractScrollarea in it's C++ inheritance chain23:06
lbtso QAbstractItemView, QGraphicsView, QMdiArea, QPlainTextEdit, QScrollArea, and QTextEdit.23:07
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lbtTableView == GraphicsView?23:07
fiferboyTableView is QAbstractItemView, I beleive23:08
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wazd> | , some work in progress23:08
fiferboyOkay, that is easy enough to access from the appropriate widget.  I'll make that change23:08
fiferboyWhat about the qApp property?  Leave that?23:08
lbtlet me look23:09
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lbtlooks good23:14
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fiferboylbt: I'll leave the qApp setting and change the widget-by-widget setting to the widget inheriting QAbstractScrollArea23:15
fiferboyAre you going to change the way the finger scrolling itself is set (qApp and widget-by-widget)?23:16
lbtjust looking at that23:16
LiraNunano one knows how to setup scratchbox manually?23:16
lbtdo you handle dynamicPropertyChange?23:16
lbtLiraNuna: do you mean binfmt_misc?23:17
fiferboylbt: No, but I will add that in23:17
fiferboylbt: Actually, I set FingerScrollBars up as a property of QAbstractArea, so I don't think we need to handle dynamicPropertyChange23:18
lbtyes, then I can remove the fingerScrollable() and you can move setFingerScrollBars() to the private ?23:18
fiferboyQProperty, rather23:18
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LiraNunalbt, scratchbox2 init (sb2-init) fails because it cannot execute ./a.out23:19
LiraNunait can't do so because it doesn't find above library23:19
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suihkulokkiLiraNuna: you'll need to give qemu-arm a path to the target libraries "-L /path"23:20
fiferboyQAbstractScrollAreaPrivate or QAbstractScrollAreaPrivateScroller?23:20
lbtextend QAbstractScrollAreaPrivate23:21
lbtQAbstractScrollAreaPrivateScroller is created+destroyed23:21
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LiraNunasuihkulokki, was one of the first things I tried23:21
suihkulokkiLiraNuna: where is your /lib/
fiferboyOkay, I will take a look at that.23:21
LiraNunasuihkulokki, ./lib/23:21
fiferboyI've got to be going now.23:21
suihkulokkiLiraNuna: then -L ./23:22
suihkulokkior full path to that dir, not sure23:22
LiraNunathere we go23:22
lbtOK... do you want me to continue?23:22
LiraNunanow why does scratchbox fails that23:22
lbtif so feel free to send what you've done23:22
lbtin any state23:22
suihkulokkiLiraNuna: are you following which instructions?23:22
LiraNunasuihkulokki, none, since I can't find any23:23
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LiraNunaI'm trying to setup scratchbox manually23:23
Stskeepssb2, you mean23:23
LiraNunayes, sorry23:23
Stskeepsbig difference in sanity ;)23:23
fiferboylbt: Sure23:23
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suihkulokkiLiraNuna: maemo-sdk comes with sb223:24
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LiraNunasuihkulokki, not for 64bit23:24
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LiraNunaI got my cross compiler working, now I'd like to setup sb2, but I find no documentation about how it's done23:25
suihkulokkiLiraNuna: SDK+, I meant:
suihkulokkibut lets go the manual route now, I'm interested in it working too :)23:25
suihkulokkiLiraNuna: what sb2-init command line did you use?23:25
LiraNunasb2-init -c qemu-arm ARM /usr/arm-linux-gnueabi/bin/arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc23:26
LiraNunait fails to configure libtool23:26
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LiraNunayeah I figured I'll get no answer back; I can compile cross gcc and even canadian cross it, but I can't use sb223:34
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suihkulokkiLiraNuna: it seems to add -specs directly to gcc command23:36
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LiraNunawell, this is gcc4.4, if sb2 assumes it's gcc3.x, then I suppose that's the problem23:37
suihkulokkiLiraNuna: I don't think so, newer targets have a gcc423:38
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LiraNunaI got no clue how scratchbox really works, I wonder if I could get binfmt working for arm using qemu then chroot and cross compile23:39
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suihkulokkitry running "sb2 gcc -v"23:39
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suihkulokkieven thou libtool failed, the target is set up23:40
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suihkulokkiLiraNuna: looks ok, can you sb2 gcc hello.c ?23:43
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LiraNunasuihkulokki, works23:46
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suihkulokkiLiraNuna: try moving the a.out outside the ~/maemo dir23:54
LiraNunaliranuna@monster:~/maemo$ qemu-arm -L . ./a.out23:55
LiraNunaHello world //funny, this works23:55
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