IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-05-25

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RST38hSts: How is .PL btw?00:04
Stskeepsit was fine, i was just down south in denmark this weekend00:04
b-man16Stskeeps: btw, i (might) be representing Mer at LinuxFest this fall btw00:05
Stskeepsb-man16: alright, better do it well00:06
Stskeepsthere'll hopefully be plenty material to use00:06
StskeepsRST38h: some claim TI developers SDK has the roms btw00:06
Stskeeps( )00:07
* Stskeeps glances at
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Stskeepsalso, my xp is kinda dead :P00:09
Stskeepswhich seems to be needed00:09
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RST38hSts: TI only offers ROM update not a complete ROM00:13
Stskeepseven the SDK? :P00:13
RST38hSts: Not sure have not tried00:13
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RST38hMy guess is that you can use any computer to dump it, just send the ti program over tilink and get the file with standard ti tools00:13
RST38hconversion I can do by myself00:13
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Stskeepslooks sane00:17
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RST38hSts: Does not have 84+, 83+SE, or 84+SE00:38
RST38hwait, se is there00:38
b-man16~seen qwerty12_N80000:39
infobotqwerty12_n800 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 20d 15h 10m 13s ago, saying: 'radic: advanced-backlight?'.00:39
b-man1620 days!?!?!? O.000:39
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lcukRST38h, more calculators to digest01:36
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w30what app do I need  for ping command in x terminal?02:33
zakkmping ;p02:34
zakkmw30: ping02:34
zakkmw30: for maemo, its called "iputils"02:34
w30duh, ok!02:35
zakkmw30: here02:35
w30zakkm, thanks,02:35
zakkmw30: getting download deb, onesec02:35
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zakkmw30: you know how to install from deb?02:36
zakkmw30: apt-get install iptuils-ping should also work i think sicne its in maemo repositories02:36
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w30zakkm, yeah, but been a while, I can find out how again *smile*02:38
w30zakkm, thanks02:38
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zakkmw30: you download to nokia tablet... in application manager, press menu key.. Install- from file.. select deb02:41
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w30zakkm, I have a folder somewhere with debs and the installer stuff somewhere in 160 gigs of stuff02:41
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zakkmoh wow okay i dont know02:43
zakkmdeb is installer though.02:43
zakkmthe "setup .exe" for tablet02:43
w30zakkm, thats cool, I like that better than the old way  before I upgraded the 770 OS02:44
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zakkmyour on 770?02:46
w30zakkm, w30 wants a 810 but can't afford one.02:46
zakkmyeah so do i ;p02:47
zakkmmy 770 wsod 2 weeks after i got it02:47
zakkmand after that i was so broke so i saved upp sooo much and bought a n80002:47
zakkmgot a parttime job and everything02:47
zakkmand now wishing i got a n810, but financially it wasnt worth it02:47
w30zakkm, what's wsod?   Went South of Denver?02:48
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zakkmwhite screen of death02:49
zakkmevantually your 770 will stop working02:49
zakkmon its own, huge design flaw02:49
zakkmwhatever you do .. do not turn it off or restart it okay?02:49
zakkmone day randomly you do that.. the screen will stay white.. and never ever change02:50
zakkmw30: okay?02:50
Bobbeso... prophetic02:50
w30zakkm, I have had absolutely no trouble with mine execpt the do ate through the power cord and now it is joined with gray duct tabe02:51
w30zakkm, I turn it off at least twice a day.02:52
zakkmw30: do not ever turn it off02:52
zakkmtheres no point for one.. and one day you will turn it on and it will stay white02:52
zakkmthe screen controller evantually breaks on its own, and you cant repair it02:53
zakkmw30: charge it, leave it on.. do not turn off/restart it .. it takes so much power to do that anywayas its not worth it02:53
zakkmthe power to turn it off and on.. is about 4 days of battery02:53
zakkmif the ui screws up, you kill hildon-desktop02:54
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zakkmon the 770 it breaks.. not n800/n81002:55
zakkmbut battery wise, yes02:55
zakkmyou shouldnt turn off the tablet02:56
zakkmits like a ipod, you shouldnt do it with a ipod too02:56
zakkmlaptops are a different story..02:56
w30zakkm, I got one of the first ones that were avilable after the initial backordered ones were filled.02:57
zakkmw30: so the good ones, even still you shouldnt turn it off , its more of a wast eof battery then leaving it on02:57
w30zakkm, I would like to do the phone stuff on the 810, so if it breaks I will ask Santa for an 810.03:00
zakkmphone stuff on the 810?03:01
zakkmcan have skype on 77003:01
zakkmand call and such, has builtin speaker+mic03:01
w30zakkm, skype etc. video phone03:01
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GAN8001zakkm, two days.03:02
zakkmw30: if you install 2007HE, you can use skype.03:02
zakkmGAN800: w30 said turns off twice a day... i was trying to say should just leave it on, so i exaggerated a little ;p03:03
GAN8001Bobbe, yes. The powersaving is targetted at good idle life, not fast, lightweight boots.03:03
GAN8001zakkm, ah, sorry.03:03
zakkmalso doesnt the 770 have worse battery?03:03
GAN8001One cycle is 2 days of idle if you're getting about 10 days total.03:03
zakkmand 2006/07 worse battery life.. making it more than 2days idle? :P03:03
w30zakkm, to really make it work I will have to update to a bluetooth phone or else stick close to wifi03:04
GAN8001zakkm, BP-5L for 770 and N800, BP-4L for N81003:04
GAN8001All 1500mAh03:04
zakkmjust a guess03:04
GAN8001zakkm, the 770's WiFi powersaving was nowhere near as good.03:04
zakkmbut yeah w30, you'd be better off battery life wise and time wise to just leave it on than turn off tablet03:04
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lcuki have pink skin under neath the scar tissue :O the two halves have joined (only near the edge for now) :O03:05
w30zakkm, I have an 110 volt inverter for my car lighter so a battery life of a couple of hours for laptop or 770 works for me.03:05
zakkmlcuk: what are you talking about?03:06
lcukthe skin around where i had my stitches in is peeling revealing nice clean new skin underneath :)03:07
zakkmcar lighter, ... i think i need to start talking to people my age :)03:07
w30lcuk, My dog got super glued together, so go to a vet!03:07
zakkmlcuk: oh thats cool, show your children? :)03:07
zakkmdid you groose them out? :)03:07
lcukyeah one runs away the other tries to grab it03:07
zakkmhehh :)03:08
lcukw30, i wouldv prefered glue03:09
lcukits the end of my finger03:09
lcukand i had stitches whilst could still feel03:09
zakkmhow do you type :(03:09
* zakkm learns the first thing he will worry about when his hand gets injured is if he will ever be able to type again ;p03:10
* zakkm thinks hes not like all the other highschool boys ;p03:10
lcukfor the first week it was like fort knox i had a metal spoon cast around it to put the bone back together03:10
w30car lighter: translated 12 volt auxillary power terminal, either keyed or battery sourced03:10
lcukand help keep it from falling out03:10
zakkmw30: heh im implying you have a car .. therefore most likely older. i dont know anything about cars03:11
w30zakkm, he's worried about pumping his fist03:12
zakkmlcuk: may i ask what you do for a career, highly curious, i always like see you here and such and wonder where you have time for a job03:13
zakkmstskeeps too , but hes not here to ask03:13
lcuki have a family, a fulltime dayjob and im creating liqbase :)
zakkmyeah what dayjob, if you dont mind sharing03:14
zakkmomg i should go and get my n800 back from friend , i want to test out the liqbase! ;p03:14
lcuksoftware development :)03:14
zakkmlent it to him like two weeks ago , bit more03:15
lcukin visual basic03:15
zakkmoh cool03:15
zakkmpays well?03:15
lcuknone of your damned business :)03:16
zakkmi have a friend who is doing it, his dad is a programming very old very uhh strict by-the-book programming, his dad used to work for redhat too, and my friend he said he plans to make $150+ a hour, but that just seems insanely too high to me03:16
zakkmi dont mean exact numbers ;p03:16
zakkmi meant like enough, nice job security, not too much stressful03:17
zakkmlike as a career to go into it03:17
zakkmi keep hearing like really high numbers and then really low numbers03:18
zakkmmy school computer programming has like automatic access to some nice programming university called University of Waterloo03:18
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w30zakkm, thanks for the help, I'm going to see if I can get my 770 to ping the network.03:27
zakkm w30 try not to turn it off if you can, would save more battery03:27
zakkmw30: bye03:27
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jaem_N810hey folks03:35
jaem_N810a bit OT, but can anyone recommend any good Nokia phones available in Canada? (e.g. Rogers)03:36
jaem_N810I'm hoping to ditch my current carrier this fall03:36
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GAN8001jaem_N810, buy unlocked?04:04
GAN8001jaem_N810, 5800 or E7104:04
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jaem_N810GAN8001: I would buy it unlocked, but y budget is limited04:18
jaem_N810and given that I won't be switching carriers, and likely won't be out of the country, that's not a big deal04:19
jaem_N810thanks, though04:19
jaem_N810I was looking at the E71...04:19
jaem_N810how locked down is the software?  I know it's not like Maemo, but what level of control do you have over the OS?04:20
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ShadowJKwell by default you get to install apps, as long as they're signed by the creator recently04:25
jaem_N810can you self-sign your own?04:26
jaem_N810and does the Qt port work on this model?04:26
ShadowJKbut if you want to develop for symbian you should probably have your head examined by a professional04:26
jaem_N810I would just like to be able to tinker with it04:27
jaem_N810it may not be fun, but if I *can't*, that's a big limitation04:27
jaem_N810bbiab - dinner04:27
ShadowJKyou cant modify the os04:27
ShadowJKfor tinkering... there's python available :P04:27
ShadowJKit tries hard to hide symian-isms from you, though you still encounter them04:28
ShadowJKdunno about qt, but:
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jaem_N810ShadowJK: python sounds good, and I presume there's an ssh client available?04:51
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ShadowJKjaem_N810, there's a port of putty04:59
ShadowJKIf you think tinkering/developing on/for maemo is cumbersome, difficult or complex, then you've seen nothing yet :)05:00
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jaem_N810ShadowJK: thanks for the info05:05
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GAN800jaem, the alternative is to buy really cheap and wait out the Maemo phone.05:18
GAN800Or perhaps an open source Symbian model.05:19
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ShadowJKThere might be opensource symbian, but I doubt we'd see handsets that aren't tivoized05:24
GAN8001Sure, but it's sure to be a step forward from the current arrangement.05:29
Macergot a usb hdd with wii isos on it that get loaded by an app in homebrew05:36
Macerit's awesome05:36
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xnt14btw everyone, im working on this webdeb framework, and I plan to make it nit compatible07:02
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EdLinhello, if you had a choice between keeping a dell netbook, an iPod touch, or a N810, which would you pick and why? Not at troll, I'm interested in getting an N810.07:03
xnt14EdLin: well,  have a eeepc 701, a ipod touch , and a n810, it all depends on what you want to do07:04
Bobbedepends on what you'll need to do with it07:04
acydlordyeah, i have an aspire one, and an n81007:04
Bobbebetween an Ipod Touch and an N800, it's a no-brainer, at least for me07:05
xnt14Netbool if you want to browse the web and have a regular pc platforkm07:05
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Bobbenow if you don't mind have to carry a netbook everywhere, u should get the dell07:05
BobbeI do, that's why I got an n80007:05
EdLinxnt14: I want mostly to browse, youtube, RSS, music, but also to tether it to a phone when neccesary.07:05
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Bobbeand of course my n800 was 1/3 of the price of a (good for anything) netbook07:06
xnt14ipod can rss/youtube/music fine, but the ipod can't tether07:06
BobbeEdLin, what do u mean by tethering to a phone?07:06
xnt14n810 can tether but some phone it doesn't tether(blackberry)07:06
EdLinI have a sprint palm centro, I hear it can tether to it and provide a better internet experience....07:06
xnt14Bobbe: getting internet from a phone07:06
Bobbeah, ok07:07
xnt14oh yeah07:07
Bobbedoes the ipod do that at all?07:07
EdLinand the centro has PIM, which it lacks, making it complement.07:07
Bobbei thought it was wifi only07:07
EdLinthe iPod does not, the dell mini 9 does.07:07
xnt14christefano has a centro , and he said the it works like a charm07:07
xnt14hes away right now07:08
acydlordi have my n810, aao, and phone all in an urbantools slotbar bag07:08
acydlordacer aspire one07:08
xnt14oh lol xD07:08
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EdLinI'd love to keep the dell mini 9 and have this too, but I'm not like that palm investor with the utility belt, I only have room for so many gadgets.07:09
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xnt14well, how good are you with linux?07:09
acydlordi cant wait till i get my palm pre07:10
EdLinI've used Linux since 1991, though currently I use OS X a lot.07:10
xnt14oh ok then07:10
xnt14well, it all depends07:10
GAN800EdLin, wait a few months for the new tablet.07:10
acydlordslotbar is pretty close to a utility belt07:10
infobotit has been said that rx-51 is
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xnt14acydlord: im stuck between iphone 3rd Gen, palm pre, g1/2/307:11
EdLinGAN800: when's it coming out? Does it need a new cell plan other than sprint?07:11
GAN800EdLin, it's not a cellphone.07:11
xnt14Edlin: its a tablet not a phone07:11
xnt14you don't need a plan07:12
EdLinyes, but it mentioned HSPA connectivity.07:12
GAN800EdLin, not been announced, but it should be relatively soon.07:12
GAN800You can put a SIM in there or not.07:12
GAN800it's about equivalent to the Mini 9 with HSPA.07:12
EdLinwill they break tethering as part of the deal?07:12
acydlordit's the pre for me, not a fan of the iphone at all, and not happy with android yet07:13
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GAN800By the way, I'd recommend the HP netbook over the Dell.07:13
GAN800EdLin, er, no.07:13
EdLinGAN800: too late, I have the dell.07:13
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GAN800EdLin, the system isn't closed enough for them to manage that.07:13
acydlordsome of the hp netbooks are pure fail07:13
GAN800Besides, Nokia doesn't get your money when you get a plan so they'd have no incentive.07:14
EdLinthe mini 9 is excellent in terms of hardware hackability, in terms of keyboard though it's a bit of a loss.07:14
acydlordthe aspire one is quite hackable from the hardware end07:15
acydlordsolderless touchscreen mod FTW07:15
GAN800Anyway, the next tablet will be closer to netbook performance than iPod/N810 performance.07:15
EdLinGAN800: what will the price be like?07:16
acydlordthat and the itouch is just a toy07:16
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GAN800EdLin, about where the N810 was new.07:17
EdLinGAN800: I need it to be sub-$300, because that's about what I'd be selling the mini 9 for at a minimum.07:17
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GAN800Then I'd recommend buying the N810 now and then upgrading once the prices drop on the next tablet sometime next year.07:18
acydlordmy n810 was only $140 shipped =x07:18
EdLinfrom where?07:19
acydlordfrom nokia07:19
EdLinthat's US dollars?!07:19
EdLinOK, how. :-)07:19
acydlorddevelopers discount for the win07:19
EdLinwell, I'm an admin more than a developer.07:20
EdLinthough I'm semi-fluent in several programming languages.07:20
EdLinIOW I know enough to get me into trouble, and not enough to get me out of it.07:21
GAN800They're contributor discounts now07:22
GAN800Also apply to doc writers, bug filers, and general community contributors.07:23
acydlordthey gave a couple for adding documentation didnt they?07:23
EdLinwell, I can't write too many docs for it without ever having seen one. :-)07:23
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EdLinOK, it looks like everyone is going to sleep. I guess I'll have a midnight snack and maybe do the same.07:27
EdLinthanks for the help, it's a friendly channel.07:27
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rm_youif I'm using g_debug() to do debug output, where does that GO?07:59
rm_youi used to use it and now i've forgotten >_>07:59
Stskeepsmer? .xsession-errors08:00
rm_younot mer :/08:00
rm_youlike, where does ALL of the debug text from all of the statusbar applets and home applets and stuff GO? what logfile or whatever do i need to be looking at?08:06
Stskeepsi think dev null when in maemo. might bee wrong08:13
LiraNunalaunch your program from osso-term ?08:13
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Maceri swear to god08:16
Macerif i can find the asshole that decided to use hfs+08:16
Maceri would shoot him08:16
* Macer marks another thing he utterly hates about osx08:16
johnx_Macer: for what? there are linux drivers for it08:16
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rm_youLiraNuna: is a statusbar-applet08:17
Macerbecause it forks08:17
Macerover network filesystems08:17
Macerand makes these ._filename files08:17
Macerand for the life of me i can't figure out a way to stop it from doing that08:17
johnx_oh noes. so stop using a mac08:17
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Macerso if you say copy foo over a samba share08:17
Macerit makes foo08:17
Macerand ._foo08:17
Macerit sends forked data over as a ._ file08:18
Macerjohnx_: i think you're right08:18
Maceri should sell it on ebay and get a netbook or something08:18
* johnx_ uses a ._macbook08:18
Maceri put debian on it... but the damn wifi wouldn't connect adhoc08:18
johnx_well, right now at least08:18
Macerme too.. got it for $50008:19
johnx_work gave me one for free08:19
Macerwhich prevented me from getting another laptop08:19
johnx_and a copy of vmware fusion08:19
Macermaybe that's what i should do08:19
Macerjust run fusion full screen the entire time08:19
johnx_waste of CPU power for most things08:19
johnx_mac os x isn't bad08:19
johnx_you have to choose to not let it annoy you08:19
Macerwell.. i'm going to hunt down a way to get rid of the ._ files08:19
Macerthere has to be a way so it doesn't do that08:20
johnx_once I have cash, I'm getting a thinkpad x200 (no matter what RST38h says)08:20
Macerdo they still make thinkpads?08:20
Maceri thought lenovo bought ibm out08:20
johnx_Macer: IBM, no, Lenovo, yes08:20
Maceror bought their laptop division08:20
Maceroh screw that :)08:20
johnx_Stskeeps: morning. :)08:20
Maceryou should be ashamed :) thinkpads were awesome when ibm made them08:20
Maceri don't know about lenovo tho08:21
johnx_Macer: you never even used one ...08:21
johnx_I've had some hands on time, read plenty of reviews08:21
Maceri know but still08:21
johnx_they seem like a nice machine08:21
Macertoshiba laptops used to be pretty good08:21
Macernow they seem like crap08:21
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Macerall the pc brandnames seem like crap08:21
Macerthere is one thing i can say about macs.. minus the optical drive ....08:21
johnx_plastic macbooks are much more cheap feeling than a thinkpad08:21
Macerthey don't seem to be so shitty08:22
johnx_they stain, they crack08:22
johnx_their chargers catch on fire08:22
Macerwhat? :)08:22
Maceri got one of those clear cases that snap onto it08:22
johnx_my work has like 20+ of these things08:22
johnx_I would know :)08:22
Macerif i take it off it's like brand new minus the wear on the mouse08:22
Macerthe case has been brutalized though :)08:22
johnx_anyways, back to hacking :)08:22
Maceryeah me too08:23
Maceri'm hax0ring osx so it isn't as gay without replacing it08:23
Macerlike the christian camps that try to pray the gay away08:23
Maceractually.. i'm copying cover art over to the wii08:23
Maceri got the usb loader to work and it works awesome like08:24
Macerthere's also another app i wanted to try out08:24
Macerit turns isos into wads and you install games on the external hd as channels in the wii menu08:24
Maceri've been running into ntsc/pal issues i suppose08:24
sistoI wanna talk about maemo 5 a bit08:24
Macersome get forced and others do not... punch out is pretty entertaining though. couldn't get madworld working tho :-\08:25
sistoI've been reading about it and can't see any new major features to look forward to08:25
sistowhat are you looking forward to?08:25
sistoi was expecting something like java support08:26
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sistobut any major new feature would do08:27
sistoI've just read about hsdpa. ok that's big08:29
sistoI would love to have opengl on the upcoming tablet08:29
sistohopefully they'll stick it in08:30
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sistoit would be nice if instead of being an internet tablet it was more like an all purpose device08:31
sistoand have better support for multimedia and games08:31
sistofaster video acceleration would cover those two points08:32
johnx_sisto: it will have those things and a 5 mega pixel camera08:34
infobothmm... rx-51 is
sistojohnx_: are you kidding me?08:35
sistothat's awesome08:35
johnx_yeah, GPS+decent camera+celluar inet connection= lots of cool projects to do08:36
Macerjohnx_: :)08:37
Maceryou realize08:37
Maceryou guys are going to get a hold of one of those things08:37
Macerand forget about mer08:37
johnx_Macer: still haven't forgotten about my zaurus :)08:38
johnx_Macer: also, who says I'll be running maemo 5 on the rx-5108:38
Macerhow does it feel being the last one? :-D08:38
thuxStskeeps: is it true that .dk is bicycle friendly country where almost everybody use bicycle?08:38
Macerjohnx_: you don't really know what to expect on maemo 5.. you might be stuck with it for a while08:38
Stskeepsthux: quite a lot of people do08:38
Macergo green!08:39
Stskeeps(you people want to see the url i just posted)08:39
Stskeepseven though there's nothing -that- new08:39
Macerironically enough. all those people riding bikes probably shop at stores for their food08:39
johnx_Macer: we know verywhat's in maemo 5. we've been basing mer on it for a while now :)08:39
thuxjust red about .dk bicycling in newspaper08:39
Macerso technically the bikes are also run from fossil fuels even if people are riding them08:39
Macerjohnx_: until you get a hold of the hardware tho.. ;)08:40
Maceryou never know what to expect08:40
Macerso in a way you're doing it all with one eye open08:40
johnx_Macer: hmm? I am looking forward to new hardware, but mer is pretty cross platform...08:40
thuxbut from here .fi you have to drive through .se to get in .dk and newspaper said that .se isn't bicycle friendly :P08:40
Macerthat it is.. and i'm sure you have worked hard for that.. but....08:41
Macerhow many people run windows 3.11 on an i7 :)08:41
Maceralthough i'm sure you will have a good base to work with08:41
Macerkind of like when you have a 2 bedroom apartment... you fill it up with furniture....08:42
Macerthen move to a 4 story townhouse and realize you really don't have much since there is so much more space to work with08:42
johnx_Macer: Mer uses the Maemo 5 versions of most software you know...08:42
johnx_only the WM is different08:43
Stskeepsi'd run mer on my rx-51 :ÆP08:43
Macerheh.. i'm just saying08:43
Stskeepshow big is the current tablet screen, 4.3"?08:43
Maceryou will find that after you fill up the n800.. the new tablet is going to open up a lot of space08:43
johnx_4.3" on the N800 and 4.1" (?) on the N810 I think08:43
Macerthat will require much more work08:43
Stskeepsjohnx_: hm, i wonder why 3.5" in the leaked info08:44
johnx_Stskeeps: to pull it down to phone size08:44
Maceris it possible to hook up a usb keyboard onto an n800s usb port?08:44
Stskeepssome of the specs are a bit awkward08:44
johnx_I already suspected 3.5" based on the LCD part number08:44
Stskeepssuch as 1320 mAh battery08:44
Stskeepsno mention of bluetooth, fm tx/rx etc08:44
johnx_if it doesn't have bluetooth I will be completely confused08:45
johnx_and 1320 is only slightly less than we have currently, isn't it?08:45
Stskeepstrue, it is08:45
Stskeeps1500 mAh or something08:45
Stskeepsstill, 32gb internal storage sounds neat08:45
RST38hSo, gentlemen, have you all been salivating at that leaked N900 data? =)08:46
Macerhow big is base maemo5?08:46
StskeepsRST38h: in progress, but it seems to be lacking08:46
StskeepsMacer: not that big08:46
johnx_RST38h: knew most of it already08:46
johnx_nice to have my guess on screen size confirmed :>08:46
johnx_also nice to see what looks like t-mobile (US) friendly 3G (woo!)08:47
RST38hjohnx: yes but they have got an image!08:47
StskeepsRST38h: eh, i only see a render08:47
Maceryou sure that is a real image?08:47
johnx_RST38h: it looks like vector art I do while trying to follow a gimp tutorial08:48
StskeepsCellular voice or VOIP both supported08:48
Stskeepshah, knew it08:48
RST38hjohnx: They say they had to render it by hand being afraid of watermarks in the original images08:48
Macernow that's awesome08:48
MacerStskeeps: what about tmob support? :)08:48
StskeepsMacer: read the article about that08:48
* RST38h cries, weeps, starts scaling walls whle tearing his hair out08:48
johnx_makes me feel happy about my pandora order actually08:49
Macer# T-Mobile USA: August/September 200908:49
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Macerok. i'm impressed08:49
johnx_lots of battery, full sized USB, nice big screen, and a ... D-pad08:49
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Macerlooking for the price08:50
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|Rso uhm no GPS ?08:50
RST38h256MB RAM, good08:50
RST38hMacer: $700.08:50
johnx_with 256MB of RAM, mer will fly, I kind of bet maemo 5 is gonna be a bit sluggish08:50
Macer700?! :)08:50
RST38hThey all start at $700 nowadays :)08:51
Macerwell that won't last long08:51
Macerbut looking at the gigabyte atom thing that looks like a clone08:51
RST38hJuly-September, heh08:51
Macerof an n900.... :)08:51
Macerer.. n80008:51
Macern810 (damnit)08:51
StskeepsRST38h: back to yghb and so on as dpad ;)08:51
RST38hShit, why no DPAD? =(08:51
Maceri suppose they do price things like that08:51
RST38hwill be smaller than N810 too...08:52
* johnx_ does the pandora dance, wonders if it might ship the same year as the n90008:52
RST38hjohnx: You mentioned something about screen size, is it smaller than N810?08:52
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Stskeepsi wonder if this phone mentioned is rx-51 or rx-7108:52
RST38hwhat phone?08:53
sistoit's a lot smaller than the n81008:53
johnx_RST38h: the leak calls the n900 as having a 3.5" screen08:53
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johnx_based on sony part numbers turned up on the web, that looks accurate08:53
|Ri think i'll like the new format better than an n81008:54
johnx_though I could never find that specific part number mentioned inthe kernel, it certainly seems to fall closely in the lineup08:54
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RST38hjohnx: What is n810 screen size?08:55
StskeepsRST38h: after trying fremantle stuff on non-dpad machines i can understand why they did away with it and sized the tablet down though08:55
|RRST38h: 4.1"08:55
Stskeepsas it's fully navigatable without08:55
sistowhat they say might be a proximity sensor could also be the light sensor08:55
Stskeepssisto: it's most likely the light sensor08:56
RST38hHere goes ebook reading....08:56
RST38hSts: Can't play games without dpad.08:56
RST38hSts: Does not matter how navigatable it is.08:57
|Rwasd ?08:57
sistoyeah we'll miss the d-pad08:57
|Rhehe :)08:57
sistoor not08:58
sistowe'll have to see08:58
RST38hSmaller display definitely isn't good. Hopefully, it is some kind of mistake08:58
johnx_RST38h: I'm gonna bet no mistake.08:59
|Ris it a (what's that iPhone screen tech name again?) screen ?08:59
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RST38hjohnx: yea, betting on the worst outcome has never failed me too.09:00
|Rtransductive or something like that?09:01
sistoi'm betting for smaller screen considering the device itself is a lot smaller09:01
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johnx_RST38h: well, in the kernel is an LCD name, and on parts sites are similar names that refer to transflective 3.5" displays09:01
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johnx_BTW, I was right that Nokia would find a way to make the D-pad worse than the N810 :>09:01
|Rsisto: probably :)09:03
sistoit's very similar to the n9709:04
Stskeepswhat are the n97 launch dates again? if they line up, that's frightening :P09:04
sistoexcept the n97's specs are a lot lower09:04
sistoI hope Nokia does a good job marketing the n90009:05
RST38hjohnx: hehe09:05
luke-jrI hope SmartQ puts out a model w/ keyboard so I don't need to consider a N90009:05
RST38hjohnx: right now, all things point out that I will end up with a 5800 or its successor as my main device09:06
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|RCan the N900 really be cell phone data only or is adding voice just a software (ofono) issue?09:06
johnx_RST38h: that would be a bummer to a lot of us that would love the hell out of your emulators on faster hardware09:06
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RST38hjohnx: well, if Nokia gives me developer discount, I will port all these09:07
johnx_|R: I'm thinking phone capabilities were always a part of it, but Nokia didn't want to tip their hand09:07
RST38hjohnx: By "main device" I mean something I carry daily09:07
johnx_I also assume that "main device" would see more dev time though ;)09:08
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|Rjohnx_: hopefully :)09:08
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RST38hjohnx: All my stuff is portable09:08
sistowas the accelerometer confirmed?09:08
RST38hjohnx: Most changes happen to the portable core code09:08
sistoi guess it's just a rumor for now09:08
Stskeepssisto: yeah, MCE states that09:09
Stskeepsit doesn't work without an accelerometer to tell it09:09
RST38hall right, work time.09:09
RST38hpoor little E70 has got sick dpad but I can still use it for IRC =)09:09
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|RI wonder if the device will be able to run I2P09:10
sistoStskeeps: MCE?09:11
Stskeeps .. machine control entity09:12
Stskeepsi gotta run to the bus though09:12
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TimixI'am new user on maemo garage. we have a little project in there. I would like to know where I can get an address to my project folders for subversion control.09:15
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rm_youwow, failing at figuring out how to get GPS location, thought it was supposed to be really easy >_<09:45
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Jaffa has some things which make it sound reasonable09:52
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* Jaffa reads the scrollback a little.09:56
JaffaHmm, much smaller than an N810 but significantly thicker.09:56
JaffaHeh, "Nokia intends... Jaiku/Twitter app called 'Mauku'"09:57
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johnxnice to have independent confirmation, but ... they could have written this whole article from one itt/t.m.o thread10:01
Sts|officemm, i love work sometimes10:04
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Sts|office"we need this debian package updated, and these rootfs's made"10:04
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aquatixhm, 3.5" touchscreen for that n900?10:47
Corsacseems si10:48
aquatixthat's 0.7" smaller than the n810 right?10:50
johnxa little smaller than the zaurus clamshells10:51
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johnxit's not *that* small10:51
johnxhey wazd :)10:51
wazdhola everybody!10:51
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mavhcif your n800/n810 broke today, what would you do?10:53
Stskeepsask for donations10:54
wazdmavhc: it won't :)10:54
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RST38hwazd: Yea. No dpad. Smaller screen.10:55
wazdRST38h: wait what?)10:56
wazdRST38h: why smaller screen?(10:56
wazdmissed that row(10:56
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Stskeepsthe specs don't seem complete though10:57
johnxsome things we can take for granted10:58
mavhcI don't see them going with a smaller screen10:58
johnxI don't think anyone would release a smartphone without gps and bt at this point10:58
johnxmavhc: bet you dollars to donuts it's 3.5"10:58
mavhchow much are donuts?10:59
johnxlike 50c to 75c here11:00
johnxand they taste better than money anyways11:00
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mavhcmoney can be exchanged for goods and services11:02
johnxdonuts can do *overly emphatic wink*11:02
infobotjohnx meant: toonuts can do *overly emphatic wink*11:03
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Macerlol omg11:11
Macerhouse of the dead overkill's intro made me just bust out laughing11:11
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Macerit was like a sam l jackson moment11:11
Macer"he'll cut your balls" "i'm gonna cut your motha fuckin balls!"11:12
Macerit was like the mexican preview in grindhouse11:12
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Sho_so I assume is already the talk of the town11:49
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aquatixbut if it's real, and thus a phone, i might just want it :)11:50
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Stskeepsnothing new honestly though11:50
Stskeepsexcept for the obvious phone-ness11:51
RST38htoo phoney, indeed11:51
Stskeepswell there's talk of rx-51 and rx-71 so11:51
Sho_Yeah, screen's too small11:51
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Sho_3.5" (vs. 4.1" for the N810)11:52
Stskeepson the other hand11:52
Sho_Same screen res, but physiclaly smaller11:52
Stskeepsa maemophone?11:52
aquatixscreen is too small for a tablet, but if it's a phone, the whole thing becomes more... phoney11:52
aquatixStskeeps: yep :)11:52
* aquatix likes11:52
RST38hMaybe if it is indeed a phone, I can carry it instead of a phone...11:54
Sho_hm well, my primary application for the N810 has actually been reading, so I'm unhappy about the smaller screen11:55
StskeepsSho_: i still think there'll be multiple models11:55
johnxxI'm betting 3.5" will represent the biggest screen though11:55
rm_youi need a phone... O_o11:55
RST38hSho: Same here11:55
RST38hjohnx: Biggest among what?11:56
johnxxI bet the rx-51 with a 3.5" screen represents the biggest physical screen size of the maemo 5 lineup11:56
* johnxx will bump the font size and cope11:56
* RST38h wonders if this screen will be well protected11:56
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RST38hN800 and N810 have exposed screens that are difficult to clean and scary to touch11:57
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johnxxand yet, my n800 is just fine after more than two years of banging on it11:57
RST38hMy N810 protector is all scratched now11:57
rm_yougphone has exposed screen and has not had any problems afaict, same with 99% of phones with open screens11:58
RST38hBTW, why so many people complain about supposed carrier lockin of N900? Who said anything abut carrier lockin?11:58
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RST38hrm_you: 5800 has protected screen, feels way better11:58
johnxxwell, judging from t-mobile's past I find it hard to believe that the t-mobile branded version will actually have all the features enabled out of the gate11:59
johnxxRST38h, is it capacitive?11:59
RST38hjohnx: nope11:59
johnxxhuh, just a harder plastic?11:59
RST38hjust covered with cheap sturdy plastic11:59
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RST38hNokia's cheaper generic line of devices is actually way better built than N-series devices (and E-series too lately)12:00
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atharvahi friend s i m tring to run gui appliication in scratchbox .. I tried to start xephyr from command line outside srcatchbox but it is giving error : Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic, removing from list!12:01
atharvaplease help me how to resolve it12:01
johnxxthat should just be a warning12:01
johnxxdoes it crash?12:01
RST38hthat's a warning12:01
RST38hthen ignore it12:01
atharvabut when i run gtkhelloworld it says problems with font12:02
atharvaCould not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/X11/cyrillic, removing from list!12:02
atharvasorry the error isNo fonts found; this probably means that the fontconfig12:02
atharvalibrary is not correctly configured. You may need to12:02
atharvaedit the fonts.conf configuration file. More information12:02
atharvaabout fontconfig can be found in the fontconfig(3) manual12:02
atharvawhat's the problem?12:03
Corsacmaybe fontconfig library is not correctly configured?12:04
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atharvado i hv to configure it inside scratchbox?12:06
RST38hatharva: this directory is supposed to contain cyrillic X11 fonts12:06
RST38hatharva: Unless you are trying to use cyrillic fonts, you can safely ignore the warning12:06
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atharvaok thanks i will try again12:07
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danielwilmsatharva: this warning is a xephyr are some hints to get rid of it...haven't tested it by myself though12:08
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danielwilmsbut it shouldnt be a problem in general as the others said12:09
ifvoidhow do I find out which Maemo version is running on my N800?12:09
RST38hInstall cyrillic fonts or remove path from config file12:09
RST38hAnd you will get rid of it12:09
atharvaok thanks guys12:10
johnxxifvoid, main menu -> settings -> control panel -> about12:10
amris it normal for the n810s screen to stay on after i've switched it to lock?12:10
ifvoidjohnxx: yeah, that says "unknown"12:10
amrlike my 770 used to turn off the screen12:10
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amrits like the backlight is still on very very very faintly12:11
aquatixamr: it stays on for a little bit, then switches off here12:11
amrhmm, mine didn't12:11
amri've just had it away for a few hours12:11
aquatixit should :/12:11
johnxxifvoid, I think that was a bug in an older version, so I can probably say "you don't have the latest version"12:11
amrmaybe a reboot would help12:11
johnxxamr, is it plugged in to power?12:11
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ifvoidjohnxx: isn't there an other way to check (from the command lien for example)?12:12
amrits just been charged12:12
amrthe procedure to put it away for a bit is just simply to slide the lock button, isn't it?12:12
amrand put it in that sleeve if you want12:12
johnxxifvoid,  apt-cache policy osso-software-version-rx3412:13
amrwhen i slide the lock, it says touch screen & keys locked, the backlight dims and it looks like its off12:13
amrbut if i hold it under my desk, you can tell the backlight is still on12:13
amrvery faintly, but still there12:13
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ifvoidjohnxx: that package doesn't exist12:16
amrmost puzzlin12:16
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johnxxifvoid, might explain the <unknown> then12:17
johnxxis it just saying "installed: (none)" or is it really saying something like no such package?12:17
johnxxerrr, oops12:18
johnxxn810, right12:18
johnxxtry this: apt-cache policy osso-software-version-rx4412:18
johnxx(44 instead of 34)12:18
johnxx34 is the n800 ;)12:18
rm_youpunching through my firewall from this side could be difficult...12:19
amrjohnxx, who is that for?12:19
johnxxamr, it's for ifvoid12:19
amrmy bad12:19
rm_youneed to poke a hole for mysql and can't get any commandline browser to work on my router's conf page (w3m, elinks, links2)12:20
* lcuk wakes12:20
amrhello lcuk, solve my sleeping issue :p12:20
johnxxrm_you, no ideas. why are you stuck in the CLI?12:20
rm_youcurrently trying to install X and firefox on my server to use firefox over ssh X forwarding >_>12:20
johnxxwhy not forward an ssh port and tunnel in12:20
lcukyou cant sleep amr?12:20
johnxxamr, in the display section, try setting dim and turn off to be the same number (ie, both 1 minute)12:21
rm_youjohnxx: my server does not as of yet have any graphical anything12:21
johnxxrm_you, <johnxx> why not forward an ssh port and tunnel in12:21
amrlcuk, my tablet cant :P12:21
rm_youjohnxx: tunnel what in?12:21
amrjohnxx, ill try that now12:21
rm_youjohnxx: vnc? still requires X?12:22
amrright, lets see if that works12:22
johnxxnope, just uses it like a cheap vpn so you can use your desktop browser12:22
amrthats probs why my battery is only lasting just a day :p12:22
amrand it worked, you bloody star johnxx12:23
amrthanks :)12:23
johnxxamr, cool beans :)12:23
johnxxit still should be timing out after a while though and actually turning off the backlight12:23
johnxxmight be hard to tell on the n810 since the screen is transflective12:23
amryeah, i set dim to be 10 secs, off to be 3012:23
amrill try it normally now12:23
rm_youeh got midori running over X11 forwarding :)12:24
amryep :) woowoo12:24
johnxxyay. everyone's happy12:24
* johnxx sleeps12:24
lcukamr, take the battery out :)12:25
atharvahi friends , I am runnign xephyr outside sracthbox , and then i m trying to execute command  " ./example_hildonprogram" . Now i m getting this msg "AF Warning: '/etc/osso-af-init/keyboard.defs' not found AF Warning: '/etc/osso-af-init/sdl.defs' not found" plz help12:25
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amrlcuk, heh :p12:26
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rm_youjohnxx: ok so i think i have a better idea12:26
johnxxrm_you, then letting me get some sleep? :P let's hear it12:27
rm_youjohnxx: curl is easier to use and lighter weight that mysql, i'll just write up some quick PHP pages to do the submit and pull12:27
rm_youand use CURL tabletside12:27
rm_youeasier for everyone12:27
Stskeepsdo i dare to ask what you're working on? :P12:27
rm_youyes? no? :P12:27
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lcukweb 2.0 advanced backlight with remote dimming using AJAX :p12:28
johnxxStskeeps, a little app that displays your location on a map as well as the location of other people12:29
johnxxemphasis on quick, easy and lightweight12:29
RST38hatharva: Please, stop asking us about all these warnings12:29
Stskeepsfor cph? ;)12:29
rm_youand their status... and also hopefully on-the-fly shared POIs12:29
RST38hatharva: Only complain if your app does not work12:29
amrthat sounds cool rm_you12:30
RST38hBecause yes, Scratchbox is a bitch, and it complains like a bitch, and it is broken12:30
johnxxrm_you, though, if you're going to do that you might as well use the jabber xml format for location info12:30
atharvait is not working RST38h12:30
* johnxx is really sleeping now, won't respond anymore12:30
RST38hatharva: Then what is the error message?12:30
rm_youthis still won't require jabber though <_<12:30
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amrthere need to be more pretty apps12:31
amrand easy to use :p12:31
atharvai dont understand which is error n which is warning12:31
amrive noticed lots of great programming & ideas12:31
amrjust their interfaces are u-g-l-y12:31
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atharvais this error or warning  ? "/home/atharva/.osso/current-gtk-key-theme:1: Unable to find include file: "keybindings.rc"12:32
rm_youamr: many programmers are not artists, and take a functional over aesthetic approach to GUI design12:33
rm_youalso, some are just complete retards when it comes to UI design in general, and can't even achieve a functional UI regardless of aesthetic T_T12:34
RST38hN76 is back with a vengeance12:35
lcukyou can also get an evolutionary design coming out of nowhere :P12:35
* RST38h finds it ironic how Nokia is occupying poor Motorola's niche now12:36
wazdeverything properly functional is always aeshetic12:36
wazdI don't know anything that worked like a charm but looked shitty12:37
amrits a shame that so many potentially good things are let down by a god awful UI12:37
amryoud have thought with the tablet being an on-the-go type of device that design would be pretty important to everyone12:38
RST38hwazd: aluminium crates used to carre milk packs back in .SU12:38
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RST38hwazd: were ugly like shit, worked like a charm12:39
lcukwazd \o hi, have you seen the new video12:39
wazdlcuk: heya, nope :)12:39
wazdRST38h: well, .su design school is an exception xD12:40
wazdRST38h: Some mutation or something :)12:40
lcukoooh you are in for a treat then :D12:40
RST38hwazd: That and anything made by IBM12:40
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amrbloody HELL its warm!12:45
wazdlcuk: looks impressive, awesome tech demo, still no sense for me :(12:46
amranyone fancy teaching me graph theory before my exam tomorrow?12:47
RST38hlcuk, it really has to DO something to make sense12:47
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* rm_you sleeps12:50
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lcukwazd, its much more than a demo, its just being built from the inside out :)  there are numerous apps that it can be used for. i was speaking to vlad and he would like to see omweather in there, i can see the user pics being able to send messages its an image/media viewer its like my brain.  its got a complete calendar which works just like the one on my wall...  and theres about 30 plugins there already12:52
* lcuk should make a calculator to make rst happy12:53
wazdlcuk: why not just use native environment for all these apps?)12:55
roopecraigslist looks like shit but works like a charm. :)12:56
amrsame with ebay12:56
roopeAs did ICQ. and Napster. And all those back in the days.12:56
wazdlcuk: what's the point of having two OMW's on one device, one native and one inside liqbase?)12:56
wazdroope, well, I don't see any shit in ICQ)12:56
roopeI think there's a huge number of examples of things that work like a charm but look like shit. :)12:57
amrcanola is a nice app tho12:57
RST38hICQ depends on what client you are using12:57
amryou can tell thought went into the design12:57
RST38hTheir server infrastructure started like shit but it is now in much better shape12:57
roopewell, the ICQ UI was a horrorfest back in the days. Like in 2000.12:58
wazdI've noticed that canola spends a lot of time to load battery and wlan status12:58
amrcan the tablets access wpa-enterprise networks?12:58
amrwazd, my point was that its pretty :p12:59
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lcukwazd, wouldnt there be 2 versions of omweather anyway one gtk and one clutter12:59
wazdlcuk: they are for different devices13:00
lcukor even one flash if we look at your site13:00
wazdlcuk: no, no flash OMWeather :D13:00
lcukbut the gtk one would work on the new device wouldnt it13:00
wazdlcuk: I really don't see any reason to use old versions on the new hardware13:01
lcukheheh :)13:01
lcukso its ok to redesign something if you see the point, but not if others do ;)13:01
wazdlcuk: right now we're concentrated on making new version look and feel mindblowing :)13:01
lcukof course, as we all are13:02
amrnew version of what?13:02
wazdamr: OMWeather13:02
amri use that :)13:02
rm_youi like Mer's "it's 34 degrees in helsinki" app. it satisfies all of my weather needs :)13:03
wazdRight now I'm working on settings menu concept13:05
RST38h40 foot poster includes over 1,000 versions of 150 different types of Unix.13:05
wazdI want it to be usable both portrait and landscape13:05
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rm_youRST38h: i printed something like that four years ago and unfurled it across the entire length of the classroom for my presentation on UNIX :P13:05
rm_youit was very dramatic :)13:06
RST38hrm_you: yes but this stuff is better, it weights 10 pounds and is weatherproof =)13:06
RST38hYou can literalyl wrap buildings in it13:06
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rm_yougod I love opera link sooo much13:08
rm_youopera sync, whatever it is exactly13:08
thuxdo somebody know will turion go to sempron socket? can i replace my sempron with turion?13:09
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amrquake is pretty damn cool13:14
amrand works surprisingly well13:14
Stskeepsmorning timeless_mbp13:15
timeless_mbp1:15pm :(13:15
amrif it makes you feel better it's only 11:10 in the UK :)13:15
thuxtimeless_mbp: where are you? you got same zone than .fi13:17
timeless_mbpfor this time, there aren't many choices13:17
timeless_mbpi could be in .il, but that wouldn't be particularly logical13:17
timeless_mbpbtw, /whois timeless_mbp is your friend13:18
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Stskeepsneat, the freerunner can act as a bluetool gps13:21
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thuxisn't same timezone go north to south so many possibilities where to be in every zone13:23
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timeless_mbpthux: technically yes, practically, no13:24
timeless_mbpif i'm in UTC-1213:26
timeless_mbphow many major locations are actually there?13:26
timeless_mbpfor EEST, there are very few civilized countries13:26
amrhmm, i installed that accounts-haze plugin13:27
timeless_mbpi mean, sure, i could be in Egypt (or Israel as I already mentioned), but would you think i was in Sudan? :)13:27
amrand added an MSN account but it still said "no accounts" mm13:27
thuxi also thought that meizi_irkki is only other fi in this channel, but good to hear that more people from hell :)13:27
timeless_mbpoh there can be a bunch of us13:27
timeless_mbpqgil comes in at times13:27
suihkulokkithux: hehe13:27
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki of course13:27
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suihkulokkirun /who #maemo and you'll see this channel infested by people in finland13:29
timeless_mbpand some people from .nokia.com13:29
timeless_mbpwhich is always more disturbing13:29
thuxsuihkulokki: ok you just use exellent english i thought you are americans13:30
* timeless_mbp cries13:30
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timeless_mbpif their names are funny, they probably aren't Americans13:30
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timeless_mbpthat said, suihkulokki's English is relatively good13:31
jumpulaonly relatively? :p13:31
timeless_mbpjumpula: localized compliment13:31
timeless_mbp2009-05-24 (Sunday):13:32
timeless_mbpsuihkulokkia "accident" that makes lots of profit?13:32
* timeless_mbp kicks irc client13:32
timeless_mbp2009-05-24 (Sunday): <suihkulokki> a "accident" that makes lots of profit?13:33
timeless_mbppoints for trying to use an article. but only partial credit (failure to use 'an' to match the vowel starting the following word)13:33
timeless_mbpjumpula: oddly a quick look shows that the only Finnish trait you have is not talking enough ;-)13:35
thuxtimeless_mbp: but you are native speaker aren't you?13:35
timeless_mbpthux: indeed I am13:35
suihkulokkibah, my english is still better than timeless_mbps finnish :P13:35
timeless_mbpbut I'd hope that you could distinguish between a native speaker and a non native speaker13:35
timeless_mbpwhereas you said "i thought you are americans"13:36
suihkulokkiit's easier to detect native speakers when listening, many native speakers are terrible writers13:36
timeless_mbpfwiw, you should have written "were Americans" (thought is past tense, so were is the proper verb for agreement, and note that in English all proper nouns are capitalized -- yes, I'm making a point of capitalizing them in these sentences.)13:37
jumpulahow much is enough when it comes to talking? :)13:37
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: they are, yes, however the mistakes that Finns make are not the same as the mistakes that native speakers make13:38
thuxtrue it is easier unfortunately no sound in irc yet13:38
timeless_mbpjumpula: to be confused for someone who isn't a Finn?13:38
timeless_mbpjumpula: compare the amount and length of your sentences to suihkulokki's (and yes, I'm aware he's a Finn, but I'm merely comparing wrt quietness )13:40
jumpulanow i'm just confused :p13:40
suihkulokkithat's a common state for you :)13:41
jumpulasuihkulokki could be mistaken for a native english speaker but i couldn't?13:41
amrok, im trying to install rtcomm13:41
jumpulaif i understood correctly, that is :)13:41
amrit errored saying it can't find telepathy-haze, i've added a few more repositories13:41
amrand uninstalled the old installer, which installer do i want to use?13:41
amrthe one linked on the site?13:41
timeless_mbpjumpula: you couldn't be confused for an American because you don't talk enough13:42
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki talks enough, but what he says almost immediately indicates he isn't a native speaker13:42
thuxsince so many from hell, local link
timeless_mbpgah, stupid web site13:43
timeless_mbpit has a British flag13:43
timeless_mbpbut the flag takes me to
jumpulayou'd rather have the link take you to her majesty's home page?13:44
amrgod save the queen13:44
timeless_mbpi'd rather a translation...13:44
timeless_mbpvaguely works13:44
timeless_mbpoh wow, now i know someone is lying13:45
timeless_mbpPuhelimen ominaisuudet ovat lähes identtiset N97 :n kanssa, erona ainoastaan tarkempi näyttö ja Maemo-alusta, josta kuvissa esiintyy MobileCrunchin mukaan viides sukupolvi.13:46
timeless_mbpcould someone contribute a better translation of that?13:46
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: if you see mobilecrunch that article seems 1:1 to that article13:46
slonopotamusuh... anyone figured out where's mac address in /dev/mtd1? :)13:47
jumpulathe phone's features are nearly identical with N97, the differences are larger display and maemo platform from which a 5th generation is displayed in the image13:47
Stskeepsslonopotamus: i thought luke did?13:47
jumpulaas there's no picture in the display in the image, the statement is a bit confusing one13:48
thuxand for sale in summer?13:48
jumpulahmm. i think i did a non-native speaker mistake above :p13:48
jumpulaon the display?13:49
timeless_mbpand "picture"13:49
Mikho_what's the difference between launching an application from the command line, inside maemo, and DBus launching it with the information contained in the corresponding .service file?13:49
thuxsoon is summertime then we can buy new maemo13:49
amrhmms, my msn account adds but doesnt connect now ive installed rtcomm13:49
jumpulaaye, better that way13:49
Mikho_why does my program work when it's launched by DBus, and never when it's run from the command line?13:49
jumpulathux: assuming the source is reliable13:50
timeless_mbp> The phone features are almost identical with N97's, the only difference between an accurate display and the Maemo platform from which the images occur MobileCrunchin the fifth generation.13:50
timeless_mbpis what google gave me13:50
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amranyone had msn(haze) problems when using rtcomm?13:50
timeless_mbpwhich as you can tell is Garbage Out13:50
jumpulaaccurate in this case mean has a larger resolution13:50
amrwhen pressing the presence icon in the status bar i get "Disconnected, Network error"13:50
timeless_mbpjumpula: could you load my translate link and try to improve google's translation of the sentence?13:51
timeless_mbpdon't fix it too much13:51
slonopotamusStskeeps, btw. you said it isn't a block device. what kind of a device it is then?13:51
amrand with irc13:51
timeless_mbpjust teach it the bit for larger resolution13:51
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* timeless_mbp runs to hunt food13:52
timeless_mbpsp3000: i don't suppose you're around to grab lunch for me in advance?13:52
jumpulatimeless_mbp: i'd have to rewrite the entire page. the translation is awful.13:52
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jumpulaand the finnish part is bit poorly written with respect to terms used13:53
jumpulaexact translation would be "more accurate display" like google suggests13:54
timeless_mbpok, then don't touch it13:54
timeless_mbpwow, so this article is even after the Italian article13:55
timeless_mbpan italian coworker pointed to it and said that's the last place to get a translation13:56
timeless_mbpand then he ran off to enjoy a vacation13:56
* timeless_mbp runs off to get lunch13:56
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Mikho_does anyone know if DBus does anything else than execute the file specified in the service file, when it autostarts an application?14:00
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: mtd? :P14:02
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RST38hMikho: It does14:23
RST38hMikho: DBus is supposed to send your program a specific DBus message to which you have to answer. If you do not, DBus will consider your app hung and kill it off in a while14:24
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Mikho_how would it differ from me starting the executable from the command line?14:30
RST38hstarting stuff from command line does not require DBus14:32
Mikho_the executable does call osso_initialize properly14:32
RST38hIn fact, you do not need to use .service file14:32
RST38hYou canstart executables directly from .desktop file14:33
Mikho_also, even if I start it from the command line, I'm able to receive dbus messages ok14:33
Mikho_but still, the program doesn't work properly14:33
Mikho_it won't get shut down or anything14:33
RST38hThis is too vague description14:34
Mikho_it's because I have no idea what's wrong exactly14:35
Mikho_i'm just trying to find out, by first finding out how starting the program from DBus and from command line differ14:35
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* slonopotamus wonders, wtf is 'starting the program from DBus'14:36
timeless_mbpslonopotamus: technically you can14:37
timeless_mbpif you try to use dbus to talk to something which isn't there, dbus has provisions to make it happen14:37
timeless_mbpnot that it's important14:38
matzenhhi, the maemo repository have problem? Temporary failure resolving ''14:38
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timeless_mbpmatzenh: wfm :)14:38
slonopotamustimeless_mbp, oh my. is it used in practice?14:38
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timeless_mbpit's an interesting feature of the dbus "bus" design14:39
timeless_mbpmy w7 is currently Dumping physical memory to disk: 3014:39
Mikho_somehow the two starting methods differ, and something in the commandline method causes my program to not work properly14:39
slonopotamus hehe14:40
timeless_mbpslonopotamus: awesome14:41
X-FadeStskeeps: That one is just slow.14:42
X-FadeStskeeps: Very very slow.14:42
timeless_mbpand uses https14:42
Stskeepswasn't me! ;)14:42
timeless_mbpand very very very slow14:42
timeless_mbpyou sure it isn't down?14:42
timeless_mbpit's doing a very good impression of down14:42
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Yes, because I'm logged in via ssh. But it is very slow.14:43
Stskeepsit's crawling ;)14:43
timeless_mbpis it being DoS'd?14:43
timeless_mbpoh wow, i got the page!14:43
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timeless_mbpit's not quite dead yet14:43
timeless_mbpsomeone should tell Pauli Kauppinen that "New release available" is a bad news headline14:45
timeless_mbpNew release available14:45
timeless_mbpPauli Kauppinen - 2009-05-14 11:2114:45
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timeless_mbp--- new release of *what*? :(14:45
timeless_mbp(and yes, i could _eventually_ figure it out, but it took too long)14:45
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Paavogarage seems a bit slow today16:15
StskeepsRST38h: gone mad? :P16:16
zapthere is a burst of rumours about N900 on russian websites. Is this related to something real, or it's just rumours?16:16
zapomg, is this a real photo or just a 3D design?16:17
jaskaif thats a photo i am jebus16:18
Stskeeps3d rendering16:18
aquatixthat's a 3D design they did themselves16:18
Stskeepsbased on alleged photos16:18
aquatixas they couldn't publish the images from the documents16:18
zapthe keyboard is awful16:18
* aquatix misses the dpad16:18
Stskeepsrecall that that is probably a rx3416:19
jaskao.O no d-pad?16:19
zapI wonder how one is supposed to play games on it16:19
zapbuy a wiimote :16:19
RST38hSts: Just invoking the spirit of VAX16:22
RST38hzap: They could not post photos16:22
RST38hzap: Saying that photos may be watermarked16:22
RST38hzap: 3.5" screen instead of 4.3"16:23
RST38hzap: So book reading is also kinda problematic16:23
zapyes, downsize is questionable solution16:23
zapon other hand, I'll be able to throw out my phone at last, and use just one device instead of two16:23
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* aquatix has read books on 2.8" :)16:24
RST38hzap: IF it is a full phone16:24
aquatixzap: yep16:24
* RST38h read books on E70 but it does not mean a thing16:24
zapand much less problems with finding screen film for it16:24
RST38hzap: I secretly hope they covered the screen 5800-style16:25
aquatixi love reading books on my n810 though16:25
zaplook at N95/96, they aren't16:25
zapto read books you can buy a plastic Frenel lens :)16:25
aquatixRST38h: wel, they say it looks a lot like the n97, which - i think - uses the same protection as the 580016:25
RST38haquatix: Not guaranteed given that N97 is N-series16:26
aquatixzap: i read at my sony ericsson m600i; not much text at once on the screen, but it has a jogdial, which is awesome for scrolling/reading16:26
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aquatixRST38h: hm16:26
RST38haquatix: 5800 looks kinda cheap in comparison but once you start using it, it feels way better than fragile N-stuff16:26
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RST38hHehe, FBReader guys will finally have to implement autoscrolling :)))16:27
RST38hTie it up to the tilt sensor or something16:27
* aquatix doesn't really like autoscrolling16:28
* zap secretly hopes that N900 will have more controls accessible without sliding out the keyboard16:28
aquatixbut that's personal16:28
aquatixzap: yeah16:28
aquatixzap: at least some dpad-like thing16:29
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zapjudging by 3d model, there isn't any :(16:29
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aquatixthat'd suck majorly16:29
aquatixbut the n97 has some dpad-like thing in a corner16:29
wazdnews bout 3.5" screen suck16:30
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Stskeepswazd: well if you are doing clever marketing, you release a phone first, then the tablet version16:30
Stskeeps(we do have rx-51 and rx-71)16:31
Stskeepsthe phone they talk about sounds like a rx-7116:31
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wazdStskeeps: I still don't think that it would be a phone16:43
wazdCause why Intel and Nokia would develop linux phone stack if Nokia already have one?)16:43
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doc|workwazd: nokia owns maemo, qte and symbian16:45
wazddoc|work: thanks Cap :D16:46
doc|workwazd: sorry, just saying, redundancy doesn't seem to bother them too much16:46
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wazddoc|work: well, I think they have just enough stuff to support all of their various hardware16:47
wazddoc|work: Nokia doesnt own Bentley, Manchester United and McDonalds :)16:48
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doc|workI think you might have missed my point :)16:49
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mavhcI'd assume they'd make s60 their entry level phones, and maemo their new smartphone16:54
inzI hope they killall S60 and linux everything ;)16:55
inz(I'm sure there are full pleothra of 3rd parties that would die because of that, but nevermind them.16:55
mavhcyou just transition, old entry level phones die, smartphones become entry level, new smartphones appear16:56
fiferboylbt: ping16:56
fiferboyHey wazd16:56
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aquatixmavhc: no, not new smartphones, multimedia/pocket computers ;)16:57
inzmavhc, but I want S60 dead. now. ;)16:58
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aquatixsymbian^2 then?16:58
inzmavhc, because any Symbian code makes my want to cleanse my eyes... ...with sandpaper16:59
inzmavhc, and I don't want to16:59
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mavhcignore it?17:00
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inzmavhc, I've coded in symbian "C++" once, it will haunt me for the rest of my life... ;)17:08
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lbtfiferboy: pong17:11
fiferboylbt: How's it going?17:11
lbtnot bad... checked in the branch to gitorious17:11
lbtand building locally under qemu17:12
fiferboyI am going to text using Fremantl SDK to see if it looks okay, but I have to start a Qt rebuild17:12
fiferboyThat might take a while.  If there are any changes I will send them to you or check them into git.17:13
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luke-jrfiferboy: how do you get Qt to build?17:18
fiferboyluke-jr: Check out the source, mv either "debian.diablo" or "debian.fremantle" to "debian" then "dpkg -rfakeroot -nc -b" and wait six days17:19
Stskeeps4 works too17:19
luke-jrfiferboy: don't want to use Debian/Mer, just want to build Qt w/o running out of RAM :p17:20
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fiferboyI'm building in scratchbox using a virtualbox session on an extremely underpowered laptop17:20
fiferboyI have never waited long enough for it to complete (if it does complete with this setup), but I just need one .so file less than halfway through the build17:21
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lbtluke-jr: that's how I do it for Diablo too... you can add -j<n> too if you have multiple cores17:26
luke-jrafaik, the N810 has only one core17:26
lbtyou want to build Qt on the tablet17:27
lbtmake sure you have some swap17:27
luke-jrlbt: 1 GB, but watchdog won't let it swap that much17:27
luke-jrtbh, I have cross-distcc setup, so compiling isn't too big a problem17:27
lbtlet us know how it goes ;)17:27
luke-jrit's linking that runs out of RAM17:28
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fiferboyluke-jr: linking seems to run out of memory in my setup, too.  Swaps like crazy but never gets anywhere17:30
luke-jrfiferboy: really? hmm17:30
luke-jrfiferboy: is your linker a cross-linker, or native-built?17:31
luke-jrmaybe it's an ARM bug?17:31
luke-jrGCC ARM*17:31
fiferboyluke-jr: I can only assign about 500 MB to my virtualbox session, that is likely why17:31
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luke-jroh crap17:32
luke-jrapparently ld requires 1.3 GB of memory for qt webkit17:32
lbtshould be fine on an N810... just what they're designed for ;)17:33
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fiferboyluke-jr: :O That would do it!17:34
luke-jrfiferboy: some bug report mentioned it loading *.o before even starting17:34
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* RST38h luuuurves coding for Symbian in C++!17:41
RST38hIt is suuuuch a pretty minefield, and it blows up at different spots on each phone too! Variety!17:42
RST38hBesides, once you get this experience, you have basically made yourself employable for foreseeable future =)17:43
nomisOh, I'd guess that you don't even need Symbian for this  :)17:43
nomis(for the minefield)17:43
RST38hnomis: *I* don't, but your mileage may vary =)17:43
StskeepsRST38h: so the appeal of maemo is that it is actually saner than symbian? :P17:44
RST38hSts: Yea, Unix-derived platforms are way saner17:45
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nomis...unless you look at the socket API...  :)17:46
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RST38hnomis: It's ok17:47
RST38hnomis: The biggest PITA is audio17:47
nomisRST38h: well, the problem with sockets is, that you suddenly have no documentation if you want to use e.g. netlink.17:47
RST38hAnyone who even expresses a desire to design a new audio framework for Linux has to be immediately hospitalized and given daily aminazin shots17:47
nomisfor networking it is kind of OK.17:47
RST38hnomis: Plenty of examples around17:48
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nomisRST38h: I know, still having a hard time to figure out all the things you can do with it.17:48
fiferboyYay Fire Drills.17:49
Stskeepsfamous last wors17:49
fiferboyStskeeps: Nah, it's done already17:50
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Jaffa"BeagleBoard and maemo" thread on -developers makes interesting reading.17:51
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xnt14c/join #liqbase17:52
xnt14oh opps xD17:52
StskeepsJaffa: yeah, it'll definately make the weekend interesting17:52
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GAN800Smaller battery and smaller screen . . . urgh17:54
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Stskeepsmorning GAN800, welcome to hell! :)17:54
Stskeepsalso, i think that's a rx-71.17:54
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zakkmStskeeps: new n900 news is out?17:55
Stskeepszakkm: yeah, some leak17:55
* xnt14 checks maemo.org17:55
GAN800Stskeeps, I agree.17:55
zakkmStskeeps: link please17:55 down..?17:56
StskeepsMeizirkki: just very slow17:56
Stskeepszakkm: has a lot of discussion17:56
zakkmjuly? thats earlier17:56
xnt14ahhh, that sorta looks like a kirf knockoff17:57
zakkmBrowser: Firefox 3 with support for Flash 9.417:57
zakkmno flash 10? :P17:57
Stskeepsxnt14: ignore the rendering17:57
xnt14oh ok :P17:57
zakkm32GB internal storage, expandable up to 48GB via external memory17:57
zakkmthat must cost alot ;p17:58
xnt14same cpu as palm pre? webos port?17:58
* xnt14 hopes for a better gps17:58
zakkmits the omap3520 isnt it?17:58
zakkmthe n90017:58
xnt14yay, 5mp camera17:58
xnt1432gb storage17:58
JaffaStskeeps: RX-71 had more keys, according to the kernel17:58
xnt14well, now theres one more device I HAVE to buy :P17:59
JaffaGAN800: Yeah, smaller device and smaller screen not good. Will feel very thick next to N810. Keyboard looks a bit naff.17:59
xnt14well, yay, t-mobile!17:59
JaffaOh well. TV time. tmo can wait for later.17:59
zakkmit seems really bad, im sure that "leak" is fake :)18:00
* xnt14 will get a tmo plan after he gets an iphone...18:00
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* xnt14 wonders why everyone is worrying over the small screen :P18:01
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zakkmmaemo is small enough in 4.3"18:02
zakkmso now they are doing 3.5" in 800x480? :P18:02
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Meizirkkiit's gonna be 4.1"?18:05
xnt14it hits engadget:
* xnt14 doesn't mind18:05
* mgedmin tried browsing the web on his N810 today, and remembered why he never does that18:07
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zakkmit sucks, browsing on tablet18:08
xnt14well, it all depends on the site...18:08
zakkmmplayer/ pidgin is really nice in maemo18:08
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xnt14although 95% of all sites are crap in microb18:08
zakkmi had no pc at night yesterday, so i used my tablet18:08
zakkmheh dont you use Tear?18:08
* RST38h browses web on an E70, so N810 does not feel that bad18:09
zakkme70 has wifi?18:09
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RST38hHas wifi, egprs, and 3g18:10
zakkmwhy would you diss the iphone18:11
zakkmits a great project18:11
xnt14although apple screwed up on the sdk, and the appstore18:12
xnt14other than that its great18:12
RST38hzakkm: fallomorphing as many Apple nuts as possible is a kind of a sport18:12
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RST38hzakkm: As in "how many can you enrage with one post"18:13
xnt14and a haptic touch plugin is on cydia18:13
zakkmheh im planning on making ipod apps ;p18:13
xnt14yeah, but objective-c = impossible syntax18:14
RST38hObjC isn't that bad18:14
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zakkmgood money potential ;p18:16
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zakkmi learned im recently broke18:16
xnt14sadly apple also screwed up with the sdk, mac only18:17
zakkmi only use Mac OSX :P18:17
zakkmthey didnt screw it up?18:17
zakkmits part of Xcode18:17
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xnt14xD, I still need to buy a mac, and i don't have a hackint0xsh compatible computer :(18:19
EdLinxnt14: get a mac mini, it's fairly affordable. :-)18:19
zakkmhackintosh compatible isnt hard ;p18:20
EdLinunless it's an AMD system18:20
zakkmid sell you my dg31pr motherboard for $40 usd?18:20
zakkm100% support18:20
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zakkmif you have a system and try, sometimes it is trial and error, but if your looking to buy, its not hard at all18:21
EdLinI'd sell you my dell mini 9 for $300, it's also hackintoshable, though I'd get a larger SSD if I wanted to run xcode on it. :-)18:21
zakkmwish i had $300 :P18:21
GeneralAntillesandre__, ping?18:21
EdLinzakkm: so do I, hence the offer.18:21
zakkmid sell you my overclocked 50% to 3.0ghz... hugee ass heatsink , full mac osx support, on it now .. for your dell mini :P18:22
xnt14I wish my parents would let me buy stuff from people from irc X(18:22
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xnt14they are like, only buy from a trusted source18:22
EdLinzakkm: not interested in another desktop.18:22
zakkmxnt14: people would most likely put on ebay, and then link you and you click "buy now"18:22
zakkmso it goes through ebay safely18:23
xnt14although I asked my dad if I can build my own desktop, and he said yes...18:23
zakkmmakes sure your the only one that clicks it, by messing with keywords and such18:23
zakkmEdLin: what is your motherboard?18:23
xnt14so, now im in the market to get parts for a destop18:23
timeless_mbp_hey, how do i find out if i have a account? :)18:23
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EdLinzakkm: I have a mac mini and a dell mini 9, I have no idea what my motherboard is. ;-)18:23
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, Garage.18:24
zakkmdell mini 9 has mac support?18:24
EdLinzakkm: unofficial of course.18:24
zakkmxnt14: whats yours? hehh been reading wrong18:24
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GeneralAntillesOops, Rover leak on the lists. . . .18:24
xnt14my main desktop is a dell xps 600, nvidia/dell mb18:24
zakkmxnt14: i was looking for exact motherboard model18:25
EdLinzakkm: the dell mini 9 is the most hackintoshable netbook... Mine is right now running Windows 7 RC for the heck of it though, I'm probably going to hackintosh it again - especially if I want to sell it.18:25
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xnt14my server is a dell precision 360, which runs tiger perfectly18:25
xnt14tiger = no iphone sdk18:25
zakkmlol the only thing that makes it the most hackintosh is that it has a nice wifi card18:25
zakkmso run leopard on it? :P18:25
xnt14I tried18:26
zakkmtry harder ;p18:26
xnt14it didn't work18:26
EdLinzakkm: everything's supported, not just the wifi. Only thing that doesn't work now reportedly is MMC support for the SD card slot, which otherwise is supported.18:26
xnt14and I tried 5 different distros on my xps, but none of them would boot18:26
zakkmEdLin: i meant, in all netbooks its just the wifi thats missing unless you swap it... thats the only think that makes the dell mini 9 the best18:27
xnt14iatkos would boot the installer, but after install it would jusk kernel panic18:27
zakkmxnt: boot with a different kernel ;p18:27
EdLinzakkm: yeah, you're probably right.18:27
* xnt14 googles if a asus eee pc 701 would run osx XD18:27
zakkmyeah it should18:27
EdLinzakkm: I mostly got it because it was a netbook, decent looking, and expandable.18:27
EdLinzakkm: oh yes, and runs Ubuntu well18:28
zakkmwish i could afford one :)18:28
zakkmeww ubuntu18:28
zakkmat least use the newest moblin 2.018:28
EdLinzakkm: moblin is nice, but no wifi support.18:28
xnt14I already tried that, the only thing I didn't try was efi pc18:28
zakkmEdLin: did you see the new 2.0 beta?18:28
zakkmnice new UI and all18:28
zakkmnot crappy xfce, they made their own18:28
EdLinzakkm: I saw it, I was just looking at it yesterday online.18:29
zakkmxnt14: you need the efi bootloader.18:29
EdLinzakkm: I started to download it, but when I  saw no wifi I aborted.18:29
zakkmthats weird18:29
zakkmcant install ?18:29
* xnt14 's dad has a laptop which is with his uncle right now, which runs 10.5.6 almost flawlessly18:29
zakkmits fedora-based i believe18:29
xnt14sadly thats my dads laptop18:29
zakkm701 should run it18:30
xnt14so its win7 rc only :(18:30
xnt14it would?18:30
xnt14it has a celeron 90018:30
zakkmyeah i know18:30
zakkmi was going to buy one18:30
xnt14I thought it wouldn't work18:30
zakkmyeahh it does work18:30
EdLinxnt14: the 701 will run it, but not too well I guess since it has such a small screen, OS X likes to have some screen real-estate.18:30
zakkmyeah youd run into resolution/screensize troubles on a 7"18:31
xnt14external screen?18:31
zakkmbut support wise, its perfectly fine18:31
xnt14usb vga card?18:31
zakkmit doesnt have a builtin one?18:31
EdLinrun Linux on it. What kind of Linux hacker are you anyway? ;-)18:32
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xnt14it does but when I put ubuntu on it, it wouldn't go above 800x60018:32
zakkmubuntu sucks :)18:32
zakkmlearned that years ago18:32
zakkmfedora is worse but still18:32
xnt14not that much18:32
xnt14fedora is a real pos18:32
EdLinI love Slackware.18:32
EdLintoo bad they dropped GNOME18:33
zakkmi love gentoo :)18:33
xnt14it screwed up my xps's grub,18:33
zakkmtheres still dropline gnome? or can compile it18:33
* xnt14 has gentoo on his ps318:33
zakkmhow well does that run?18:33
EdLinzakkm: compiling GNOME by hand is a real bear.18:33
zakkmfriend wanted to try it on his ps318:33
xnt14pretty good, just no 3d gfx18:33
zakkmfull keyboard/mouse support?18:33
xnt14I had ubuntu on my ps3 before gentto18:33
zakkmdoes it screw up ps3?18:34
xnt14full internet18:34
EdLinzakkm: linux is officially supported on the PS3.18:34
xnt14fedora screwed up my xps's bl18:34
fiferboylbt: After I clone the qt-maemo git repo, how do I get your fingerscroll branch?18:34
zakkmi dont own a ps3 ;p or any console for that matter except a ps118:34
EdLinI have an xbox 36018:34
andre__GeneralAntilles, pong18:34
zakkmi cant afford anything :p18:34
GeneralAntillesandre__, OK, I've got some stuff ready.18:35
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nomisfiferboy: I don't know specifically, but try "git branch -a" and see if there is something that resembles the branch you're looking for.18:35
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andre__GAN8001, nice... still busy with some bugmail here... want to send me a patch or how to proceed? can't promise that i will have time later today (appointment) but definitely by tomorrow18:36
fiferboynomis: Thanks, there is a branch "origin/fingerscroll" but I can't check it out ("is ambiguous")18:36
xnt14zakkm: ?18:36
fiferboynomis: Oops, because I created a duplicate branch in my local repo18:37
GAN8001andre__, I can send a patch.18:37
nomisfiferboy: try git checkout -b my-fingerscroll-branch origin/fingerscroll18:37
GAN8001andre__, it's largely guesswork since I can't test it.18:37
zakkmxnt14: thats really old.18:38
xnt14oh xD18:38
lbtfiferboy: git checkout fingerscroll18:38
zakkmyou know how to make a bootable usb drive?18:38
fiferboynomis: Thanks, that worked!18:38
zakkmxnt14: that follows a real mac disc.18:39
fiferboylbt: Whenever I did that it created a new branch, but didn't have the changes of your branch18:39
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andre__GAN8001, send me mail18:39
lbtwhat I think you just did is create a new branch based on the origin branch18:39
lbtdid you do a git clone?18:40
fiferboylbt: Yes.  I really don't understand git (good thing I didn't have anything to do with the maemo git branch!)18:40
fiferboylbt: I did a git clone based on the URI on the qt-maemo page18:40
fiferboylbt: git clone git://
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lbtbefore I created my branch?18:41
fiferboylbt: About 30 minutes ago.18:41
GeneralAntillesandre__, done.18:41
fiferboyYour branch was there.18:41
lbtah :)18:41
fiferboyWasn't it?18:42
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GeneralAntillesdneary, geneven doesn't remember the first election.18:42
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fiferboylbt: But when I run git branch -a it shows me:18:42
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Ah - explains things18:42
fiferboy  master18:42
fiferboy  origin/4.518:42
fiferboy  origin/HEAD18:42
fiferboy  origin/fingerscroll18:42
fiferboy  origin/master18:42
GeneralAntillesdneary, really, he generally doesn't understand much. ;)18:43
nomisfiferboy: -a also shows the remote branches.18:43
GeneralAntillesThere's still the whole Maemo/ confusion.18:43
GeneralAntillesA lot of these people seem to think that itT has been absorbed by Nokia.18:44
fiferboynomis: What I don't unserstand is why git checkout fingerscroll didn't work as I expected18:44
lbtit really should have18:44
GeneralAntillesI like how Kate's head seems to show up in a lot of the Maemo-related Engadget posts.18:44
nomisuh, is the "origin/" supposed to be optional?18:45
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Well, you know my feelings on that18:45
dnearyIf there's confusion, it's bacuse the whole thing isn't clear18:45
GeneralAntillesdneary, different issue. Different understandings.18:45
GeneralAntillesTheir view basically amounts to conspiracy theory.18:45
xnt14wait, how do I uninstall scratchbox?18:45
dnearyWho's "their"?18:46
GeneralAntillesdneary, most of the people in that "Open Letter" thread.18:46
fiferboylbt: I notice Antonio hasn't put the debian directories in there yet.18:46
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lbtI hadn't ;)18:47
fiferboylbt: In fact, none of the maemo-releated changes have been commited yet, other than yours.18:47
dnearyGeneralAntilles: There's a definite need for more diplomacy when dealing with a group that are suspicious of Nokia to begin with and pretty cynical18:47
GeneralAntillesdneary, you haven't been reading enough Talk.18:47
lbtyes, he's working on setting them up as branches18:47
fiferboyThat was a waste of time, I can't build from git yet.  Oh well.18:47
dnearyGeneralAntilles: I think I said that :)18:48
fiferboyBack to SVN for the moment18:48
GeneralAntillesIt starts there, but then they start flinging personal attacks whenever they get the chance.18:48
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GeneralAntillesdneary, well, my point is, there's a lot of history here.18:48
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: 90% of the opinions are fairly sane though in that thread.. it's time to back off a bit for all involved :P18:48
dnearySeems like there definitely is a "them & us" then18:48
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, sane, thinly veiled personal attacks.18:49
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, anyway, I'm not involving myself.18:49
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thuxthinly veiled too fine words for bad english like me :p18:51
GeneralAntillesthux, lightly disguised.18:52
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* Stskeeps watches mer try to boot on his freerunner18:54
* lbt watches Ubuntu fail to login on his laptop18:57
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* GeneralAntilles is burnt out.19:01
* lcuk sandblasted19:01
lcukis ^19:01
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z4chhautomake/autoconfig avaliable for the tablets?19:03
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lcukguys,   scratchbox - if i have installed scratchbox and the fremantle sdk into it, do i have to reinstall everything including scratchbox to do some dev on diablo19:36
lcukor can i just add the diablo devkit into it19:37
Stskeepsmerphone: ;p19:37
lcuk(H) thats hot19:37
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GAN8001We need to buy Stskeeps a real camera.19:38
Stskeepsit was just shaking :P19:38
Stskeepsfrom the excitement19:38
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xnt14awesome mer phone :)19:41
xnt14but I agree new camera19:41
* xnt14 needs a new hdd, stupid server...19:42
timeless_mbpGAN8001: ping19:42
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: ping19:47
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: pong19:57
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timeless_mbpsorry, my ping timed out :)20:06
timeless_mbpi was hunting for a pretty picture20:06
GAN8001timeless_mbp, pong?20:12
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* xnt14 installs gentoo20:21
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slonopotamusgot segfault in close() :D20:47
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Stskeepsevening qwerty12_N800, howøw is it going?20:48
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, hi, all good. Got a week off. :)20:49
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RST38hmoo qwerty20:53
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: hehe, much needed. exams ahead or?20:53
qwerty12_N800hi RST38h20:53
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, yep20:53
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i have a nasty nasty linear algebra exam coming up - and the copenhagen weekend :P20:54
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, hehe, which one is the most challenging? :P20:55
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: one can totally fuck up my life, .. i guess the second one can too? ;)20:55
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, hehe20:56
Stskeepsthe weird things you have to do for a thesis20:58
Stskeepsright now i'm watching videos of some woman doing exersises..20:58
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CorsacStskeeps: you call it that way?21:00
qwerty12_N800I think that is a trait shared by many (men)...21:00
StskeepsCorsac: it's not porn nor is it very interesting to watch :P21:00
kfxI should get a degree in watching women in exercise video21:01
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Stskeepsmy specialization will be in pervasive healthcare, so21:02
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oDudahello ! i wanna remove gizmo icon from maemo menu... somebody?21:05
qwerty12_N800as root: rm /usr/share/applications/hildon/gizmo-project.desktop21:06
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RST38hall right, so, what's cooking?21:08
StskeepsPeter@Marketing responded in N900 specs21:09
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* lcuk Stskeeps link21:10
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oDudaqwerty12_N800 thank you ! too much !21:11
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oDudaqwerty12_N800 rooth is needed, so ?21:12
oDudasaid rootsh21:12
RST38hSts: Alas, his answer does not take into account fbreader users running it full screen21:12
qwerty12_N800oDuda, yep, whatever is your favourite way of becoming root :)21:13
StskeepsRST38h: yeah, i thught the exact same thing21:13
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: docpurge with your change works perfectly btw, much appreciated.21:13
qwerty12_N800oh, cool :)21:13
Stskeepsgoshawk made new packaging for it as there were license doubts of the old one21:13
Stskeeps(and it used some non-debhelper thing)21:14
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oDudaqwerty12_N800 one more: is a way to gain root withouth any installing ?21:15
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, did you go for the dd method, or decide to use 'touch', out of curiosity?21:15
qwerty12_N800oDuda, by enabling rd-mode but you don't wanna go there...21:16
oDudaqwerty12_N800 thank you ! :-)21:16
RST38hAnyone knows if FBreader author is on IRC?21:16
oDudard mode is by flasher ?21:17
GAN8001qwerty12_N800, fuck you. :P21:17
qwerty12_N800~seen MishaS21:17
infobotmishas <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 247d 9h 7m 38s ago, saying: 't_s_o, it seems to have minor severity and low priority... i wouldn't have high hopes...'.21:17
qwerty12_N800oDuda, yes...21:17
qwerty12_N800GAN8001, muhahaha, hello to you too :p21:18
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i used whatever you pasted on that post in qole's thread21:18
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RST38hqwerty: Ehhh21:19
qwerty12_N800RST38h, it may be faster dropping an e-mail :>21:20
RST38htoo early for that yet21:20
* RST38h has got a few ideas on how to deal with the smaller screen in n90021:20
Stskeepstv out? ;p21:20
qwerty12_N800voodoo? cursing nokia?21:21
Stskeepsbuying a smartq7? :P21:21
RST38hSts: No, a little zoom tied to the touch spot21:22
RST38hSts: i.e. you touch the screen and it shows a zoom of what you have just touched right above your finger21:22
RST38hSts: And, when you press at the top/bottom of the screen, it will slowly scroll21:23
RST38hwhile maintaining zoom of course21:23
GAN8001qwerty12_N800, where did you crawl off to?21:23
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GAN8001Peter's explanation is idiotic.21:25
GAN8001They really don't get their users or soething.21:25
RST38hI am surprised he gave an explanation at all21:25
qwerty12_N800GAN800, had (and still do have) exams but I've got this week off. Plus, I was having fun making  my Wii run homebrew (amongst other things, *cough*) :P21:25
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GAN8001I find it hilarious that they're trying to analyze my post.21:26
GAN8001I have access to nothing more interesting than what they have.21:26
Stskeepson the other hand21:27
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Stskeepsthe people coming out of the woodwork does confirm this was a real leak, even though most of these things were already known :P21:27
qwerty12_N800GAN8001, I thought, you being a council member, had access to all of Nokia's workings? </sarcasm> :p21:28
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GAN8001qwerty12_N800, well, apparently, I'm evil now.21:28
Stskeeps"now"? :P21:28
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GAN8001and it's reasonable to masquerade an "Open Letter" thread as a "let's attack GA" thread.21:29
GAN8001I need to block Talk with a proxy or something21:29
lcukthat never works21:30
GAN8001qwerty12_N800, you out of school yet?21:30
Stskeepsi tried that with slashdot21:30
lcukget one of the moderators to REALLY block you21:30
Stskeepsfailed miserably21:30
lcukheh sts ditto21:30
RST38hGAN: Just let 'em be21:31
GAN8001Stskeeps, this damn insanity better blow over soon or I'm just going to have to walk out completely.21:31
RST38hNobody is after you21:31
GAN8001Just aint worth it.21:31
RST38hIt is just that the transfer to has not been handled properly21:32
StskeepsGAN8001: actually i read it as a message to several personalities, but that's how it is21:32
qwerty12_N800GAN8001, for all practical purposes, yes. Just got to go back for exams.21:32
StskeepsGAN8001: because it's been attack-counterattack-countercounterattack etc in some of the threads and that's just noise, from both "sides"21:33
Stskeepsso it's more of a call to calm the fuck down :P21:33
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GAN800Stskeeps, there's a non-public history to Texrat's blow-up.21:34
Stskeepsprobably, but i honestly think it's time to get back to business :P21:35
GAN800Piece of shit Modest21:37
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GAN800Who the fuck came up with the save to drafts dialog21:37
oDudaqwerty_N800 - can you translate this "apt-get remove skype-installer" to gizmo please ?21:37
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GAN800That UI designer needs bamboo under his nails.21:38
Stskeepsi personally haven't been able to see any community work through all the noise lately so i'm just looking forward to getting good community info again :P21:38
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Stskeepsright, tea21:39
kfxman, if maemo had an sdk more like mer's my life would be way easier21:39
Stskeepskfx: me throwing a massive fit over scratchbox is part reason why mer exists21:39
qwerty12_N800oDuda, 'dpkg -S /usr/share/applications/hildon/gizmo-project.desktop' says: gizmo-installer but, thanks to osso-software-version, you don't want to remove it... dpkg -L gizmo-installer if neeeded and delete the files manually21:40
infobotqwerty12_N800 meant: oDuda, 'dpkg -S /usr/share/applications/hildon/gizmo-project.desktop' says: gizmo-installer but, thanks to osso-software-version, you don't want to remove it... dpkg -L gizmo-installer if needed and delete the files manually21:40
kfxscratchbox is like a well-researched, carefully-planned, cunningly-crafted set of tools designed to make easier the difficult task of interefering with everything I try to do21:40
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lcuklol kfx21:41
kfxit's quite comprehensive21:42
oDudaqwerty_N800 ty21:42
kfxif I somehow stumble into accidentally making something work right scratchbox promptly crashes in a last-ditch effort to confound me21:42
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lcuki have to say, it does work normally on the rare occasions i tried it - but then again that was for small amounts of simple21:43
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qwerty12_N800My biggest scratchbox annoyance is its fuck up of autotools. I've ended up passing extra libs as ldflags all because scratchbox bolloxes up an autoreconf21:44
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lcukits not even practical to do a vmk of diablo+sdk libraries is it21:45
lcuki know mer is designed and can work like that already21:45
lcukthats a great tagline21:46
GAN8001qwerty12_N800, by the way, we kind of assume you left for good. :P21:46
lcuk"liqbase :: northern powered"21:46
Stskeepsyeah, we divided your developer rebate rx-51's amongst us21:47
qwerty12_N800GAN8001, qwerties don't die, we multiply! (your keyboard is the proof :p)21:47
* lcuk thinks qwertys rebate should be subsidised by community kitty as well21:48
qwerty12_N800Meh, I'll hold out for the -71. the rx-51 is a joke21:48
GAN800we were talking about taking up a collection to get you a device so you'd come back but lardman blew it on booze and hookers.21:48
lcukand bacon21:48
Stskeepsmicrosd is too friggen small.21:49
lcukfingernail sized21:49
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* lcuk takes his off and shows you21:49
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lcukthe side stitching has healed more or less now!21:50
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* RST38h cackles at the thought that RX-71 may well end up being a standard flip-cover cell phone21:50
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* Stskeeps curses over openmoko casing21:52
GAN800RST38h, there's always Pandora and Mer I guess.21:52
RST38hGAN: Pandora isn't.21:52
RST38hGAN: SmartQ 7 looks like an interesting idea though21:52
lcukStskeeps, are the accel units accessible in the moko21:53
Stskeepsthey're excellent21:53
Stskeepsbetter than the nokia ones21:53
lcukhow can you tell?21:53
Stskeeps35hz nokia ones, 100 or 400hz openmoko ones21:53
lcukare they accessible using the same api21:53
lcukahh does that matter?21:53
Stskeepshz = amount of samples per second21:54
lcukyeah i know that lol21:54
lcukbut if you only show x fps what does it really matter?21:54
lcukits like the difference between a normal mouse and a super gaming high res mouse21:54
lcukboth will get the pointer around the screen21:54
lcukand you have to be an mouseophile to notice the difference21:55
* lcuk is used to compromise21:55
mgedminactually, the thing with mice, you'll notice when you reach the end of the mouse pad, I think21:55
lcukmgedmin, not the same thing really21:55
lcuksuper gaming mice have extreme silly dpi21:55
lcukand transmission speeds beyond anything needed21:55
mgedminwhich is different from hz :)21:56
mgedminthe dpi thing is noticeable21:56
lcuksampling frequency21:56
* lcuk thinks mgedmin is a mousophile21:56
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mgedminobserve this traditional trackpoint, how smooth the motion, how close to the home row, how red the cap21:57
kfxmmmm trackpoints21:57
lcuki work at about 1/10 speed using a computer nipple21:58
kfxI'm so conflicted about netbooks.  Sony makes one with a trackpoint!  But then I'd be giving money to Sony!  augh21:58
lcuki just got a 12" lenovo21:58
lcuksmaller than normal but not cut down21:58
Corsacthe s12?21:59
Corsacor a real thinkpad?21:59
lcukx41 touch21:59
GAN800'thanks to the Mer team and qole and PB' Ehehe21:59
Corsactablet :)21:59
StskeepsGAN800: mm? :P21:59
kfxI'm leaning toward getting one of the last x61s that has 1400x105021:59
Corsackfx: no x61s has 1400x105022:00
Corsackfx: only x61t22:00
lcukthe higher res would be nice22:00
lcukbut for what i need its ok22:00
kfxsorry, the s was a pluralization sigil there :)22:00
GAN800Stskeeps, you got lumped in. :p22:00
Corsacno x61 has 1400x1050 either :)22:00
Corsacyou'll have to take a tablet22:00
kfxworks for me22:00
StskeepsGAN800: in what now22:01
kfxas long as it's a ~12" screen22:01
Corsacif you don't hate widescreen as much as me, you may want to look at x200s, 1440×90022:02
kfxI don't mind widescreen, but I can get the older model way cheaper22:03
Corsacyeah but x200s might be cheaper than a tablet (not sure about second hand though)22:05
StskeepsGAN800: yeah.. my usual mantra "there's no Mer without Maemo."22:06
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CutMeOwnThroatis there a simple way to compile debian packages for maemo, then?22:14
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minrabundyo,  gemrb 0.4.0 just released22:17
lbtCutMeOwnThroat: you mean port from Debian to Maemo?22:17
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xnt14im back22:18
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* lcuk lobs a custard pie @ xnt1422:19
* xnt14 dodges22:19
xnt14~attack lcuk22:19
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing lcuk22:19
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xnt14hold on a sec22:20
lcuki need an anti attack attacking irc bot of my own!22:20
lbtlcuk: just don't get bman started too... they had a hell of a skirmish the other night....22:20
lcuklol lbt22:20
kfxis there a matching ~retreat command22:20
lcukthe liqirc bots respond to bacon :$22:20
lcukthey get kicked out of the chan if they start22:20
lcukkfx, it doesnt understand french :O22:21
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* xntbot causes mayhem22:21
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xnt14now lcuk can't use my bot against me22:22
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qwerty12_N800oh, I thought that was its 'people to be stalked' list22:23
xntbotlcuk, sorry, my owner has blocked you22:23
lcukxnt14, i wrote my bot originally to do sketching over irc22:23
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xnt14oh so, I can22:23
xnt14$draw box22:23
lcukit got kicked for flooding22:24
* xntbot draws a box on liqbase's sketch function22:24
xnt14so make it one way22:24
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lcukyou mean in a pm22:25
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lcuki like what you did there tho22:25
xnt14just make is so you type "%draw box 0,0" and it would draw a box22:25
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xnt14and maybe give feedback22:25
lcukyeah - the graphics library is simple enough to handle the syntax22:25
xnt14hold on a second22:26
lcukive got a parser somewhere22:26
xnt14$add(draw, from="/dv/xntbot/draw.bp")22:26
lcukyou know the search box in liqbase22:27
lcuki was thinking of allowing command syntax in there too22:27
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xnt14like this22:27
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lcukjust like the console :)22:28
lcuki dont see anything you do btw22:28
xnt14$draw circle 15,1522:28
lcukor are those just examples22:28
xnt14its just a simulation22:28
xntbotCircle Drawn22:28
lcuklotta lag22:29
xnt14wait was that public?22:29
* lardman pours a beer22:29
lcukyou should know lol22:29
lcukhey lardman \o22:29
lardmanhi lcuk22:29
* xnt14 watches22:30
qwerty12_N800ello lardman22:30
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lardmanhey qwerty12_N80022:30
lardmandid I see you say you have a week off?22:30
qwerty12_N800yep, your eyes do not trick you ;)22:31
lardmanbut you're a student, so what's new?! ;)22:31
* lardman browses the n900 revelaed thread on Talk once again, in the vague hope that someone's discovered the screen size was reported wrongly22:32
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* xnt14 is bored (again...)22:34
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xntbotget unbored22:34
xnt14that was random22:34
xnt14board? xD22:35
xnt14im board xD22:35
lardmanI'm getting married in a few days, no time for boredom in amongst the stuff to be done! ;)22:35
xnt14no time for boredom :P22:36
lardmanyep, I'm looking forward to some next week :)22:36
lcuktakin your tablet on honeymoon?22:37
lardmanof course22:37
lcuktracy would ban mine22:37
GAN800lardman, still another model.22:38
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lardmanI'll probably only use it to look at photos mind you22:38
GAN800But I can't believe how fucking thick and retarded Nokia is.22:38
lardmanGAN800: the "n900" stuff? Fingers crossed then22:38
GAN800'How can we best fuck this up?' must be the question they asl themselves every day22:38
GAN800'How can we ruin your day today?'22:39
rm_youGAN800: ?22:39
lardmanprobably a Boolean operation along the lines of: design = !(community design ideas)22:39
rm_yousomething else after the leak? or just referring to that22:39
GAN800design == whatever the worst ideas we can come up with are22:39
lcukactually community design has shown itself to be not universally great22:39
* rm_you just woke up22:40
lardmanrm_you: there was supposed to be an RX-51 and a -71 iirc from the kernel patch22:40
mavhccommunity can't design, it can only evolve22:41
rm_you... and why is that making GA rant? :P22:41
lardmanok so not designs, but in terms of wishes, I think most power users would like a screen as large (and I'd like one a little larger in fact)22:41
minraif true, looks great - 32gB internal22:41
mavhcif they're going to announce an actual tablet they'd better do it quickly now22:41
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mavhc256MB ram still seems small to me22:42
minrawhy mavhc22:42
mavhcbecause everyone's freaking out22:42
minrawhats the rush22:42
Stskeepsmavhc: 256mb + swap is more than enough for maemo like things22:42
rm_youi was hoping they'd do it at the hackfest next weekend22:42
Stskeepsheck, mer is bloated in comparison to maemo, and it actually fits nicely in 100mb :P22:42
minraawxd make a better dpad anyway22:42
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GAN800rm_you, Talk has put me in a bad fucking mood.22:43
mavhcthe recent announcement of this intel/nokia phone stack is odd, considering the timing22:43
minrai think it is smart to make smaller22:43
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GAN800rm_you, read the open letter insanity for funtimes.22:43
minraless bezel would have been nice22:43
rm_youGAN800: linky?22:44
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GAN800mavhc, 512MB would impact battery life.22:44
mavhcthe n810 is too big to hold by your ear anyway22:44
lardmanhmm, confirmation from Mara too22:44
* lardman reads the Talk thread backlog22:44
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Jaffalardman: ditto22:45
lcukadd dimensions to this from ages ago someone did for n810 and iphone and stuff22:45
minran810 just doesnt have enough dpi :)22:45
lardmanIt's not making me overly happy mind you, but at least I can head off on honeymoon not worrying that I'll miss the release of something exciting22:45
lcuk(unboxing thread for n810!)22:45
lardmanI do need a new phone though....22:46
xnt14so do I22:46
JaffaBit bulky for a primary phone22:46
Jaffa(for me, anyway)22:46
xnt14stuck with a blackberry22:46
lardmanI need to draw it out on paper and see how big, how does it compare to an iPhone?22:46
lcuklardman, as i say22:47
lcukadd to that22:47
lcukand see22:47
lardmanlcuk: sorry, missed that line22:47
GAN800iPhone is 3.5" LCD22:47
CutMeOwnThroatlbt, yes .. although I'd not call it porting if it's already compiled for the same architecture22:47
JaffaiPhone is thinner than an N810 (11mm vs. 14mm). 18mm is fscking huge22:47
lardmanand compared to the new model?22:47
* lbt struggles to recall CutMeOwnThroat's precise question22:48
Jaffa"N900" is, allegedly, 18mm22:48
mavhcwhy make it thicker?22:48
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lardmanto fit the gubbins in22:48
mavhcwhich gubbins?22:48
CutMeOwnThroat<CutMeOwnThroat> is there a simple way to compile debian packages for maemo, then22:48
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Jaffamavhc: smaller width & height mean more depth needed for the similar/more amount of hardware22:48
Jaffa(also explains smaller battery?)22:48
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* Stskeeps ponders why noone has pointed out that if people hate the n900 ui so much, they can easily change it22:49
Jaffamavhc: FM RX/TX, accelerometers, HSPA chip22:49
lardmanand I guess the omap3 + power saving has moved on too, so it may even have better life22:49
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lbtmore than install scratchbox and type dpkg-buildpkg -b  ??22:49
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CutMeOwnThroatsounds easy enough :)22:49
Meiz_n810FM TX?22:50
lbtI used to apt-get source locally22:50
mavhctbh I've no idea where the gubbins are on the n810, there's the back section, with the battery, kb, aerials, and the top section, with the screen. no idea where the gubbins fit22:50
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lbtthen move it into sbox and do that...22:50
lbtgot ddd working....22:50
lardmanMeiz_n810: yeah, with RDS too22:50
* Meiz_n810 think Fm transmitter is useless 22:50
lbtyou often have to chase down dependencies since Maemo is a bit sparse...22:50
lardmanMeiz_n810: in car?22:51
lbtyou may want to consider Mer if that gets heavy22:51
mavhcrds is apparently easy to hack22:51
CutMeOwnThroatlbt, brb, phone22:51
lardmanin general, or this particular chipset?22:51
lbtalthough usually in Mer your package is also there22:51
qwerty12_N800 Meiz_n810: think of the prank possibilities!22:51
Meiz_n810lardman: i don't have a car :P22:51
lardmanregarding RDS, and the fact it can also receive, think of traffic info (TMC)22:51
lardmanHmm, from Peter:
lardmansounds like that's official then22:52
mavhcseems odd that at the same time as everyone wants to add a 3.5mm audio input to their car stereo the car stereos have become so integrated into the dashboard it's much more difficult than 10 years ago22:52
Stskeepslardman: i honestly think it's quite a brilliant marketing move22:53
Stskeepsrelease a phone to attract new people, release a tablet afterwards22:53
Stskeepsheck, release a 7" version.. :P22:53
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Stskeepsit's a well laid path suckering people into using maemo on more things22:54
mavhcfirst, wait for apple to release whatever they're going to do, then respond22:54
lardmanwell perhaps, we'll have to see what happens22:54
* Jaffa thinks a massively popular phone-style device would be fantastic for Maemo. It'll just end up being a different Maemo and device to the ones we've grown with.22:54
Stskeepsi would love a open maemophone22:54
Stskeepsespecially after spending some time with the freerunner..22:54
* Meiz_n810 wants Cortex-A9 based netbook22:54
StskeepsMeiz_n810: touch book22:55
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: Cortex-A9?22:55
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lardmanI want a kb though!22:55
StskeepsMeiz_n810: fair enough, a822:55
Meiz_n810A9 would be nice22:55
Meiz_n8101GHz 4-core22:56
Meiz_n810and still a long battery life :)22:56
* lcuk doesnt even run his laptop at 1ghz22:56
mavhcwhat don't you like about the freerunner Stskeeps?22:56
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Stskeepsmavhc: armv4t, for starters, their mini sd slot, the awkward position of buttons, the software(s)22:57
Stskeepsi kinda like their gps and accelerometer though22:57
* xnt14 runs his laptop at 2.11Ghz22:57
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mavhcthe microsd slot is badly placed?22:58
Stskeepsevening johnx22:58
timelysStskeeps, ping22:58
Stskeepstimelys: pong22:58
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Stskeepsmavhc: nah, that one is okay, it's just a bitch to get up22:58
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GeneralAntillesMeiz_n810, wait until next year.23:00
Meiz_n810Cortex-A9 will come 2010?23:01
lardmanso, is the n810 screen actually smaller than that on the n800?23:01
GeneralAntillesES units are just being produced.23:01
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GeneralAntilleslardman, no, they're all the same size.23:01
lardmanI thought so23:01
lardmanbut the Pandora screen is slightly larger then, at 4.3"23:02
minrai am getting the 2453rd one23:02
johnxmorning :)23:03
minrahope n900 gets sold at retail stores23:03
lardmanI will have to send an email and see if they are taking the Google checkout orders23:03
rm_yougod, why is everyone freaking out? just wait for Nokia to tell you what the actual device is, THEN freak out, I hate rumors and speculation <_<23:04
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qwerty12_N800hi johnx23:04
johnxmorning qwerty12_N800 :D23:04
lardmanrm_you: not enough news :)23:04
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lardmanlol @
mavhcwho's this texrat, and why does he want the sarcasm to stop, doesn't he realise some of us are british?23:06
lardmanhe was a Nokia employee23:06
GAN800The he had a meltdown23:07
johnxthe funny thing is, I already assumed those were the specs months ago and was still looking forward to it23:07
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Jaffajohnx: didn't share the screen part number joy ;-)23:07
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johnxGA and I were talking about it on here23:07
johnxit's in the logs23:08
JaffaAh well23:08
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johnxthat was like 6 months ago and all I came up with was a hunch, nothing I could really be certain of23:08
JaffaA post on tmo would hopefully distract from such things as "Open letter to the Maemo community"23:08
lardmanat least Peter's last comment leaves room for there to be a proper 'tablet' device23:08
Stskeepsjohnx: the question is if it's in rx51 or rx71 config23:09
johnxthat's the rx5123:09
johnxthe rx71 won't have a qwerty pad I think23:09
* Jaffa breathes deeply, as Texrat exhorts, as his "letter" of pleading to stop the sniping is nothing but full of sniping.23:09
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johnxalso, any zaurus users have known that a 3.5" to 3.8" screen is totally usable23:09
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lardmanjohnx: I disagree, I was more than happy to go up the scale23:10
lardmanwell usable perhaps, but not ideal for anything I wanted to use it for23:10
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johnxI was too, but going down by .8" of screen size in exchange by tons more power I'll take it23:10
* Meiz_n810 will use his broken n810 until Cortex-A9 jumps out23:10
lardmanvideos on the Zaurus were always painful, the size that is23:11
mavhccan't we just make a stretchy screen?23:11
lardmanand reading stuff, webpages, docs, etc. were equally so23:11
* johnx shrugs23:11
GAN8004.1", 1024x60023:11
GAN800make my year23:11
lardmanIt was a cool device to hack with, but not to be productive with (imho), for that I need something more like the Psion 523:11
johnxI still use my zaurus from time to time. biggest with the zaurus for me was lack of RAM23:11
johnxGAN800: I bet they're still hilariously tied to 800x480 in some way :>23:12
mavhcseeing as the n810 can't actually play 800x480 videos...23:12
lardmanGAN800: res is really of little interest to me, actual size of words on the screen is23:12
Stskeepsi wonder if you can make a touchscreen magnifying glass23:12
Stskeepsas in, touchscreen surface on it23:12
lardmanlike the ones you get in the back of an atlas :)23:13
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* lardman heads to watch TV23:13
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* Proteous TVs to watch some head23:13
johnxStskeeps: I wonder if that was the idea behind the palm pre's curved screen...23:14
Stskeepsjohnx: heck, i'd go for retina overlay..23:15
Proteousnot sure how the touchscreen would work on that though23:15
Proteoussounds painfull23:15
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kfxI hate cisco cleanaccess so much23:16
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johnxkfx: I just hate cisco so much23:16
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kfxexcellent point23:17
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* Stskeeps glances oddly at his freerunner23:18
johnxI've had far too much interaction with them to have any warm and fuzzy feelings towards them23:18
Stskeepswhy does it claim it signed on to a network..23:18
Stskeeps(i put in a hong kong FCCW card)23:18
johnxStskeeps: the CIA is tracking you23:18
Stskeepsjohnx: i have one of the most predictable patterns, heck, they dont even need to track me, just follow me for a day23:19
kfx"connected to network ECHELON"23:20
johnxyou ascribe fairly optimistic levels of competency ...23:20
mavhctop secret things are competant, no oversight to tell you to do something stupid23:21
CutMeOwnThroatlbt, I'm not sure how scratchbox works... I see I can install it on in i386 system, tough...23:22
minrathe new works great on tablet.  good job!   fast...23:23
Stskeepsbbl sleep23:23
GAN800looks like a really shitty kickstand, too.23:23
GAN800Nokia sure knows how to screw the pooch23:24
minrascratchbox lets you build programs for maemo CutMeOwnThroat23:24
johnx'night Stskeeps23:24
minrait compiles to arm or x8623:24
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johnxminra: you can do either23:24
CutMeOwnThroatok, but it can't contain all the libraries one needs ...23:25
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minrayou need to download missing ones into scratchbox environment23:25
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CutMeOwnThroatmm, no README.Debian23:26
johnxCutMeOwnThroat: check out the guide online23:27
CutMeOwnThroatchecking the regular readme now23:27
lbtCutMeOwnThroat: what do you actually want to do?23:28
CutMeOwnThroatlbt, just get some simple packages that I miss (e.g. less)23:28
JaffaGAN800: That photo looks very odd - a Diablo-ish screenshot?23:28
GAN800Jaffa, yeah, looks like Maemo 3 icons on Chinook.23:28
CutMeOwnThroatlbt, perhaps some less-simple stuff somewhat lateron :)23:30
|RBands: GSM Quad-Band 850, 900, 1800, 1900. WCDMA 900, 1700/2100, 2100 <- does that mean ... all at the same time?23:30
lbtIn that case sbox is what you want23:30
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CutMeOwnThroatI'd seen it mentioned... was just hesitant, so thanks for the kick :)23:31
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johnxthough, just so you know, I think less is available from somewhere23:32
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CutMeOwnThroatapropos... what's doing the job of iwconfig? that network-manager itself?23:33
lbtwhat's the latest fremantle dev env?23:33
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lbt<sigh>  gives ^^ link23:34
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minraany way to get hidef youtubes playing back without hiccups on mplayer (via mytube)?23:35
CutMeOwnThroatlbt, last 3 sentences you were not talking to me, were you?23:36
lbtno :)23:36
CutMeOwnThroatgood :)23:36
johnxminra: what resolution and video/audio codecs are they?23:36
lbtNeed to setup sbox on a laptop for the Danish weekend though23:36
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minrai dont know23:36
minraflash video23:36
minraeven if i hide mplayer, the audio hiccups23:37
minramaybe i try -vo null23:37
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: ooo impress23:38
timeless_mbpi'm sorry :)23:39
qwerty12_N800minra, -novideo - vo null just stops it from being outputted, not decoded23:39
CutMeOwnThroatminra, -novideo23:40
qwerty12_N800there's a difference, believe me, even more  o when regarding the tablet ;)23:40
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kfx3.5" screen?  ugh23:41
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: at least it antialiases text23:41
johnxheh, screen size is the same as the touch ...23:42
rm_youtimeless_mbp: so i see you're going to be at CPH?23:43
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CutMeOwnThroatjohnx, and you guys were right, the media-player that comes with the N818 shows better performance than mplayer.... although that's strange, thinking how obsessed the mplayer guys are with good performance :)23:44
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johnxCutMeOwnThroat: depends on the codec used23:45
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johnxnokia has a better ARM AAC decoder I believe, which makes a huge difference23:45
CutMeOwnThroathehe... weelll... too true, I installed mplayer because the other player couldn't decode the 1st video I tried at all :)23:45
johnxalso, keep in mind that mplayer for x86 and for ARM will have different levels of optimization23:45
johnxthe mp3 decoder in mplayer-arm is *fast* for example23:46
CutMeOwnThroateasy to imagine, I found lots of discussions on it23:47
CutMeOwnThroatthey probably didn't put too much effort into other architectures than x8623:48
GeneralAntillesThere's a lot of room for opts in MPlayer23:48
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johnxthe "they" for mplayer x86 and mplayer arm are different people23:48
GeneralAntilles3.5" . . . I'm inclined to be really pissed at Nokia for making me waste a ton of time and effort on a platform they're going to hamstring.23:49
johnxthe people (person?) optimizing mplayer for ARM put in a lot of work, but in the end ran out of energy since they weren't getting much help23:49
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johnxGeneralAntilles: yeah, just like everyone looked at the iphone and said "3.5", I'll stick to the Newton."23:50
minraphone customers dont buy n810 sized appliances GeneralAntilles23:50
GeneralAntillesjohnx, that's exactly what I did.23:50
johnxGeneralAntilles: you're not the "core market" :)23:50
GeneralAntillesI don't want a phone, I want an internet tablet.23:50
johnxphones sell, ipods sell, tablets don't23:50
GeneralAntillesand unfortunately I've wasted years of my life on a platform that's going in a direction that doesn't work for me.23:51
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johnxGeneralAntilles: come to the dark side. We'll be supporting some pretty interesting hardware23:51
lbtYou mean the next device doesn't work23:51
infobotjohnx meant: GeneralAntilles: come to the light side. We'll be supporting some pretty interesting hardware23:51
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I'm burnt out.23:51
minrai think maemo will have life on larger devices23:51
kfx15:40 < johnx> GeneralAntilles: you're not the "core market" :)23:52
kfxthere is no "core market" for a $700 pocket-sized linux tablet23:52
minrai say johnx old chap you wouldnt happen to have any more ui tweaks for exult?23:53
lbtGeneralAntilles: now I suggest : ask not what you can do for Maemo, but what Maemo can do for you...23:53
CutMeOwnThroatkfx, you mean it's like... all spread out?23:53
Jaffalbt: :-)23:54
JaffaGeneralAntilles: There's always some recoup to be made from device programmes & ebay.23:54
GeneralAntilleslbt, not much.23:54
GeneralAntillesJaffa, sounds like a worthwhile blog post.23:54
JaffaThough looking at the timescales at mobilecrunch, a European device programme in October (post-summit?) would not be fun23:54
CutMeOwnThroatjohnx, ok, I never bothered with mplayer enough to know that... I just liked how well it worked on x86 and read a bit on the fights the authors picked with debian and others23:55
GeneralAntillesLet's home there's something in the RX-7123:55
kfxI spend a looot of time picking fights with debian23:56
johnxminra: I never even played exult ...23:56
kfxabout as much time as they spend patching software until it stops working23:56
GeneralAntillesIf not, I suspect I'll be moving on.23:56
johnxGeneralAntilles: it'd be a shame to have you head off right when Mer is starting to come together23:56
CutMeOwnThroatkfx, hehe, well, they probably got good reasons to do so :)23:57
minrajohnx sorry, nm23:57
lbtGeneralAntilles: and that's what I meant... Mer is using the maemo stuff (and contributing back!)23:57
johnxespecially since the smartq 7 would fit a lot of people's wants/needs23:58
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minramaybe you should wait to try the n900 b4 judging it23:58
GeneralAntillesminra, 3.5" doesn't leave me with a lot of hope.23:58
lbtminra: sacrilige!!23:58
GeneralAntillesMy two big use cases are basically torpedoed by that size.23:58
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, SmartQ is slow.23:58
kfxCutMeOwnThroat: yeah, they generally do:
GeneralAntillesCheap Chineses non-upgrade to my N800.23:59
* GeneralAntilles sighs.23:59
minrai am typing in a 3.5 window now23:59
johnxGeneralAntilles: well, it's no cortex a8 to be sure, but it seems faster than the n8x023:59
minraleft side is hildon menu bar.  bottom side is the text assist23:59
minrawhich i cannot seem to turn off23:59

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