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| GAN800 | lardman, ping time was just a little slow. :P | 00:04 |
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| n800newbie | hi | 01:14 |
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| rmt | n800newbie, G'day, newbieone.. How is the force tonight? | 01:22 |
| lcuk | hi n800newbie \o | 01:23 |
| lcuk | hi lardman lbt \o :P | 01:23 |
| * lbt waves | 01:23 | |
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| lcuk | w000t | 01:24 |
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| lcuk | night at the museum 2 is cool :D | 01:24 |
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| lbt | museum? | 01:28 |
| lbt | you mean #maemo? | 01:29 |
| lcuk | lol lbt | 01:29 |
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| lardman | lcuk: Holly will be glad to hear that :) | 01:29 |
| n800penman | you're all on here too? | 01:29 |
| lardman | How stable is that sshfs stuff? Will is clobber explorer? | 01:30 |
| lcuk | yeah simon, tracy enjoyed it as well | 01:30 |
| lardman | n800penman: no just split personalities ;) | 01:30 |
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| lcuk | sshfs has been stable enough for me so far to run visual basic and export entire app designs out into liq* modules | 01:30 |
| lcuk | (basic ui only lol) | 01:30 |
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| lardman | cool, might actually improve explorer's stability then :D | 01:31 |
| * lcuk wrote an addin to parse vb forms and produce the layouts and also a makefile and stuff ;) | 01:31 | |
| lcuk | heh | 01:31 |
| luke-jr | -.- | 01:31 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, stop gap measure until the designer within liqbase itself is ready | 01:31 |
| lcuk | a prototype so to speak :) | 01:32 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: BUT DOES IT USE QT⁈ | 01:32 |
| lcuk | does it fuck, qt doesnt compile fast enough on my tablet | 01:32 |
| lardman | yuck, c++ code | 01:32 |
| lardman | ;) | 01:32 |
| lcuk | im not waiting around for ages waiting for one singl,e file to compile | 01:32 |
| * lbt ignores the pheasants | 01:32 | |
| * ShadowJK will have none of that QT stuff on his tablet | 01:32 | |
| lardman | lol | 01:32 |
| lcuk | i might start using c++ again once i get a new tablet | 01:33 |
| lcuk | but for now on my 810 its too slow | 01:33 |
| luke-jr | lcuk is too slow | 01:33 |
| ShadowJK | That's not to say I have anything against QT. However, I don't want TWO memory hogging toolkits in a memory constrained device, and I can't entirely get rid of GTK and be left with a usable tablet, so QT gets the ban for now :) | 01:33 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, :) have you actually seen any of my stuff or do you just like bitching at things | 01:33 |
| luke-jr | my tablet is GTK-less | 01:34 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: it's not in Gentoo! | 01:34 |
| lcuk | its open source | 01:34 |
| lcuk | port it | 01:34 |
| lcuk | i build everything for it completely on tablet - just like you | 01:34 |
| luke-jr | no u | 01:34 |
| luke-jr | Qt or fail | 01:34 |
| lbt | ShadowJK: I'm hoping the SmartQ5+ will have 1Gb RAM.... | 01:35 |
| lbt | and 3D accel | 01:35 |
| lcuk | i thought the smartq didnt have 3d either? | 01:35 |
| * lbt is obviously typing whilst asleep | 01:35 | |
| lcuk | would be nice | 01:35 |
| lbt | well, it doesn't have the specs available | 01:35 |
| lcuk | but after the work ive been doing its not an end game any more ;) | 01:36 |
| lardman | lbt: it already has 3D accel | 01:36 |
| lbt | I didn't think we had drivers? | 01:36 |
| lardman | lbt: it does have the specs available | 01:36 |
| lbt | oh | 01:36 |
| lardman | no drivers, write your own | 01:36 |
| lcuk | nice! | 01:36 |
| lbt | ah | 01:36 |
| lcuk | thats actually good fodder | 01:36 |
| lardman | not a glib comment, certainly an option | 01:36 |
| lardman | there's a link to a CPU manual somewhere near the end of the thread on Talk | 01:37 |
| lcuk | create raw miniature driver and build on it | 01:37 |
| lbt | well, as I said, Greg KH is willing to advise | 01:37 |
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| luke-jr | Ö | 01:38 |
| * luke-jr wonders how long till Nokia realizes everyone will be migrating to SmartQ for next-gen technology if they don't get their act straight | 01:39 | |
| lardman | well the smartQ is cool, as it's hackable, but really it's not nextgen hw | 01:39 |
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| lcuk | smartq isnt really next gen | 01:39 |
| lcuk | its just different | 01:39 |
| lcuk | a backwards step in some respects - camera keyboard etc | 01:39 |
| lcuk | but the bigger one looks good | 01:40 |
| lardman | cpu is a bit faster, it may even have the same powervr mbx gpu, hard to tell | 01:40 |
| luke-jr | next-gen = next generation | 01:40 |
| luke-jr | eg, next purchase | 01:40 |
| lcuk | anyone know if there are hangers on the back | 01:40 |
| lardman | ah, well few people will buy one over an n800 I wouldn't think | 01:40 |
| lcuk | i want a wall mounted version | 01:40 |
| lardman | unless they want to write drivers and the like | 01:40 |
| lardman | lcuk: there's a stand, there's an unboxing video, etc., on umpc portal | 01:41 |
| luke-jr | N800 is inferior in every way…? | 01:41 |
| lcuk | stand doesnt help | 01:41 |
| lardman | no | 01:41 |
| lcuk | hate the stand on 810 | 01:41 |
| lcuk | i press it falls over | 01:41 |
| lardman | lcuk: well there's therefore a gap | 01:41 |
| n800penman | i'm going to stick with the other room for now | 01:41 |
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| lardman | I mean to make your own | 01:41 |
| lcuk | yeah i know - i have the app very well in progress - i have the space on my wall for a bigger device | 01:42 |
| lcuk | i want everything together and available | 01:42 |
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| * lcuk ropes his dad into woodworking lol | 01:42 | |
| lardman | I was close to ordering one today, but it's actually perhaps a bit too big | 01:42 |
| lcuk | depends on usage really | 01:43 |
| lcuk | ill look in cph | 01:43 |
| LiraNuna | what's Harmattan? | 01:45 |
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| lcuk | a wind | 01:46 |
| LiraNuna | ... | 01:46 |
| LiraNuna | Maemo Harmattan | 01:46 |
| lardman | next gen+1 maemo software release | 01:46 |
| lardman | atm we have Diablo, Fremantle comes with the next tablet (soon I hope), then Harmattan | 01:46 |
| lardman | bear in mind that the n8x0 has had 2 release cycles, chinook + diablo | 01:47 |
| LiraNuna | after Fermental? | 01:47 |
| lardman | yes | 01:47 |
| lardman | alphabetical wind names | 01:47 |
| LiraNuna | ah | 01:47 |
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| luke-jr | umm | 01:50 |
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| luke-jr | is it just me, or does this SmartQ SoC support h.264 decoding in hardware? | 01:51 |
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| lardman | yes, though apparently it requires some firmware to be loaded to drive the mini DSP which can access the hw accelerators | 01:51 |
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| luke-jr | i c | 01:51 |
| lardman | that was my reading anyway, I'd be happy to be wrong | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | mere 40 keys available | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | err | 01:53 |
| luke-jr | 0x40, sorry | 01:53 |
| luke-jr | 64 | 01:53 |
| luke-jr | curiously, my Zaurus has exactly 64 keys ö | 01:54 |
| lardman | 8x8 | 01:54 |
| luke-jr | yeah | 01:54 |
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| luke-jr | does the CPU have the ability to use the 1.2 V? | 01:55 |
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| lardman | that I don;t know, from the dmesg output it looked like it was running at the lower speed/voltage | 01:56 |
| lardman | ask Stskeeps | 01:56 |
| lardman | he has a physical unit | 01:56 |
| lardman | hmm, I guess a simple "BX LR" means a fn does nothing | 01:58 |
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| luke-jr | PDF is copyrighted, FWIW | 02:02 |
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| luke-jr | but as long as that site with it is authorized, I see no reason a driver based on it would have issues | 02:03 |
| ShadowJK | and you'd need drivers for it too (h264 accel) | 02:03 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: obviously | 02:03 |
| luke-jr | but that PDF has full specs for everything I think | 02:03 |
| lardman | yeah, other than for the firmware required to drive the mini DSP | 02:05 |
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| lcuk | copyright protects copying, a pdf explaining a driver is one step removed from the driver itself - if the end result for us was a pdf explaining a driver in the style of the existing document then yeah its a problem | 02:06 |
| lcuk | but using the documentation and reimplenting a driver from it is fair game | 02:06 |
| luke-jr | exactly | 02:06 |
| lardman | well isn't it all fair game in Europe anyway? | 02:06 |
| lcuk | the further east you go, the more fair the game ;) | 02:07 |
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| lardman | :) | 02:07 |
| ShadowJK | Well, all documentation is copyrighted anyway :) | 02:07 |
| * lcuk moves to hull | 02:08 | |
| lcuk | all documents are copyrighted arent they now | 02:08 |
| lcuk | unless explicitely specified otherwise | 02:08 |
| luke-jr | yeah | 02:08 |
| luke-jr | but NDAs aren't automatic ;) | 02:08 |
| ShadowJK | right | 02:08 |
| lcuk | it would be hard if all documentation had to be attributed (C)2009 Gary Birkett | 02:09 |
| ShadowJK | So it might be dubious if you copy big tables, but those big tables might be needed for interoperability anyway... :P | 02:09 |
| lcuk | after every line (C)2009 Gary Birkett | 02:09 |
| luke-jr | who is Gary Birkett | 02:09 |
| luke-jr | screw him | 02:09 |
| lcuk | i dunno (C)2009 Gary Birkett | 02:10 |
| lardman | dunno, but I'm going to copyright him ;) | 02:10 |
| lardman | :p | 02:10 |
| * lcuk is mostly copyleft | 02:10 | |
| lardman | luke-jr: be careful with your random screwings, people may take offense | 02:10 |
| lcuk | and the rest is still embedded in a doorway somewhere remote | 02:10 |
| luke-jr | lol XD | 02:10 |
| luke-jr | so who is it | 02:10 |
| lardman | it's lcuk | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | o | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | oops | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | >_< | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | I seem to be pissing lcuk off a bit too much today | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | lol | 02:11 |
| lcuk | yes luke, thats the second time recently :) | 02:11 |
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| ShadowJK | man... | 02:12 |
| lcuk | ...i feel like a bacon buttie | 02:12 |
| ShadowJK | I wish nokia didn't ever pre-announce or leak any models | 02:12 |
| lcuk | bbl | 02:12 |
| ShadowJK | it's so damn annoying | 02:12 |
| lcuk | me stopped waiting a long time ago | 02:12 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: actually, it helps me in my argument a little | 02:12 |
| luke-jr | since they haven't announced anything | 02:13 |
| luke-jr | I can insist on calling N810 their *current platform* | 02:13 |
| * GeneralAntilles yawns tiredly. | 02:13 | |
| luke-jr | and complain of their poor support for it | 02:13 |
| ShadowJK | Oh I mean for picking a new phone | 02:13 |
| ShadowJK | I think GeneralAntilles can testify, that the situation over on the symbian side isn't that great either ;) | 02:13 |
| luke-jr | who needs a new phone? | 02:13 |
| luke-jr | my phone from 2004 works just fine | 02:14 |
| ShadowJK | or anyone who's used and tried to develop both symbian and maemo | 02:14 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, I need more ram in mine :-( | 02:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Symbian is the suck. | 02:14 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: why? | 02:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | The core phone functionality is OK, but my free Samsung featurephone was OK at that. | 02:14 |
| luke-jr | I don't think i've even used half the addressbook space in min | 02:14 |
| luke-jr | e | 02:14 |
| Corsac | depends on if you need a phone to phone or if you need a pda, an internet access or whatever | 02:14 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, thats a lot of sense in that - and you cannot blanket say better faster more tech will win the day: look at ps3 vs wii | 02:14 |
| luke-jr | Corsac: then it's not a phone :p | 02:14 |
| lcuk | on speca slone the wii should be dead in the water | 02:14 |
| Corsac | my point | 02:14 |
| luke-jr | specs alone* | 02:15 |
| Corsac | the only thing I hate on my phone is the ridiculous limit on sms numbers | 02:15 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, because when I run out of RAM, symbian picks to kill the program that would annoy me the most if died | 02:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, game consoles are a weak comparison. | 02:15 |
| lardman | lcuk: I bet the ps3 is better for architects, amongst others | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | my phone doesn't even support SMS crap | 02:15 |
| lcuk | still got a curly wire? | 02:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Wii's specs don't hinder you from doing things as a consumer. | 02:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whereas a slow tablet will hinder you from browsing some Flash sites. | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: no, the antenna broke a long time ago | 02:15 |
| lcuk | but a fast tabnlet isnt much better - the iphone cant browse flash | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Either way, the Wii still has a ton of power nobody's tapped into yet. | 02:16 |
| lcuk | (or can it now) | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, the iPhone really isn't much faster. | 02:16 |
| Corsac | flash sucks anyway | 02:16 |
| lardman | that's generally considered a blessing! | 02:16 |
| lcuk | but its had all the rendering time taken off from the cpu | 02:16 |
| lcuk | thats our biggest bottleneck | 02:16 |
| lcuk | this 810 is fuckinhg quick! :) | 02:16 |
| LiraNuna | imagine it with HW accel | 02:17 |
| ShadowJK | It's not like much of the rendering done by QT or GTK can be accelerated anyway, they mostly just push pixmaps... | 02:17 |
| luke-jr | my N810 has been trying to get a lock for 1½ hrs -.- | 02:17 |
| lcuk | bbl anyway | 02:18 |
| ShadowJK | It's impossible indoors unless you put it in a window that faces south ;) | 02:18 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: Maemo does it indoors in a matter of seconds | 02:18 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 02:18 |
| luke-jr | the problem is stupid Nokia won't let us REALLY use the GPS | 02:18 |
| lardman | no that's not true | 02:18 |
| luke-jr | yes it is | 02:18 |
| LiraNuna | horray closed source | 02:19 |
| * luke-jr glares at LiraNuna | 02:19 | |
| lardman | it would be nice if we could have access to the source to see if we can work out where the problem lies though | 02:19 |
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| LiraNuna | luke-jr, sarcasm.... do you speak it | 02:19 |
| luke-jr | lardman: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4380 | 02:19 |
| LiraNuna | anyone tried ubuntu netbook remix on the N8x0? | 02:20 |
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| luke-jr | LiraNuna: afaik, b-man made it | 02:20 |
| luke-jr | for the N8x0 | 02:20 |
| LiraNuna | not desktop ubuntu | 02:20 |
| ShadowJK | lardman, it's not something you can workaround in software except by AGPS, which reduces the amount of data that the receiver has to download from the satellites. It needs constant good signal from the satellite for quite some time, the bitrate is quite slow... | 02:20 |
| GAN800 | LiraNuna, does a tablet sound like a netbook? | 02:20 |
| LiraNuna | GAN800, optimized for resolution | 02:20 |
| GAN800 | LiraNuna, Clutter | 02:21 |
| lardman | ShadowJK: I was thinking more of whether corrupt nvd_data was causing a problem, and changing gpsdriver to avoid that | 02:21 |
| ShadowJK | Well luke is probably running it entirely without nvd_data? | 02:21 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: probably | 02:21 |
| lardman | ShadowJK: I think there's a fundamental crapness to the chipset firmware and probably the snr of the signal due to the aerial, but we can't change either of those | 02:21 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 02:22 |
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| luke-jr | as I mentioned, it works fine on Maemo | 02:22 |
| Corsac | fine, fine… | 02:22 |
| Corsac | it's usually quite slow | 02:23 |
| ShadowJK | lardman, I did reported SNR comparison between sirfstar and n810.. the n810 plot looked better actually | 02:23 |
| ShadowJK | (sortof) | 02:23 |
| ShadowJK | actually it's pretty hard to make sense | 02:24 |
| lardman | I mean the lower level snr, of the actual signal from the sat, not the decoded pos | 02:24 |
| ShadowJK | http://enivax.net/jk/gps-10hrsatplot.png | 02:24 |
| ShadowJK | whiter = bigger reported SNR | 02:24 |
| lardman | ah :D | 02:24 |
| lardman | SNR has no fixed meaning in NMEA data, it can mean anything the manuf wants it to | 02:25 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 02:25 |
| lardman | I had a reference for that somewhere, I'll have to dif it out for you | 02:25 |
| ShadowJK | though look at how broken the lines are towards the righthand side of the plot for the righthand receiver | 02:25 |
| LiraNuna | what's the GPS chip on the N8x0 again? | 02:25 |
| lardman | Ti 5300 iirc | 02:25 |
| LiraNuna | not SiRFstar III | 02:26 |
| LiraNuna | ? | 02:26 |
| ShadowJK | no | 02:26 |
| ShadowJK | if you want a sirfstar you buy one :) | 02:26 |
| LiraNuna | I'm just inquiring ... | 02:26 |
| ShadowJK | in maemo the GPS performance can be shockingly good sometimes | 02:27 |
| lardman | LiraNuna: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4663&navigationId=12607&templateId=6123 | 02:27 |
| ShadowJK | last weekend I clocked 7 seconds to first fix after a week of not using the GPS | 02:27 |
| lardman | oh, look at the time, bed time for me | 02:27 |
| lardman | night all | 02:27 |
| Corsac | well, if you were at the same place? | 02:27 |
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| ShadowJK | The AGPS data was up to date, yes | 02:28 |
| ShadowJK | If you turn off the GPS and drive hundreds of kilometres, you need to give the agps a new hint if you want it to be fast... | 02:28 |
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| Corsac | usually the user doesn't care how it works, it just wants it to work | 02:29 |
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| ShadowJK | I call 7 seconds "just works" :) | 02:30 |
| kfx | I don't like those users much | 02:30 |
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| ShadowJK | and grr at nokia once again... Just when I was thinking "ooooh, E75 will soon be available (for real), it's the most decent looking alternative right now", and then then they have to leak out information about an upcoming new phone that's kinda like E75 but adds media player hardware keys on the case... now I want that one instead, grrr. | 02:31 |
| Corsac | ShadowJK: well, if you don't move, sure, but a gps isn't really often used without moving, even when off | 02:31 |
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| ShadowJK | (and have to wait until July...August until it's available, by which time Nokia has probably another model that will soon be available which is more attractive) | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | ah well, it's great for my wallet, I'll never get around to it this way :) | 02:32 |
| luke-jr | Corsac: generally, I have GPS running whenever I'm moving | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | I'd think you would have the GPS on when moving | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | that's what I do.. | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | Especially if I would move far enough that it would be making a difference for the AGPS, because then I'd be far away from roads I know.. | 02:33 |
| Corsac | ShadowJK: not always, and there _definitely_ is a problem, a lot of people are annoyed by gps slowness (not only on n810). Some devices works better than other, thoug, and n810 is not in the list, from what I can see | 02:33 |
| Corsac | and no, you don't leave gps always on because it'll suck you battery at quick rate | 02:34 |
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| Corsac | so you switch it on only when needed, and quite often it's far from the the last place | 02:34 |
| ShadowJK | ah I just keep it on all day | 02:35 |
| ShadowJK | speaking of day... it no longer is :) goodnight! | 02:35 |
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| ShadowJK | going to germany in august, will at some point check how long it takes for gps to find itself after the flight :) | 02:36 |
| Corsac | keep it switched on in the flight, it's cool to see where you are on your own personal IFE | 02:37 |
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| Corsac | I did that when I went to mexico | 02:37 |
| Corsac | (you're not really allowed to keep it on during take off and landing) | 02:37 |
| luke-jr | Corsac: GPS fix takes way too long to do anything but have it active 24/7 | 02:40 |
| GAN800 | Some airlines don't let you use them at all despite the fact that GPS only receives. | 02:41 |
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| chx | GAN800: and how do they stop? i mean, its just an electronic device which are ok to use past takeoff | 02:42 |
| chx | GAN800: how do they know you are using a GPS?? | 02:43 |
| GAN800 | chx, well, if one of the crew notices they'll ask you to turn it of | 02:43 |
| GAN800 | f | 02:43 |
| luke-jr | so ignore them | 02:43 |
| luke-jr | and don't get noticed | 02:43 |
| GAN800 | But that's not the point, just that it's policy. | 02:43 |
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| GAN800 | Yeah, not the point. | 02:44 |
| GAN800 | ignoring them sounds like fucking anti-social behavior. | 02:44 |
| luke-jr | the only reason I turn my cell off is otherwise it drains power | 02:44 |
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| luke-jr | there's so much radio in the air already, our trivial devices don't have any effect | 02:45 |
| GAN800 | luke-jr is the type of prick that'd bring a radio jammer on a plane. . . . | 02:45 |
| luke-jr | just makes people "feel safer" | 02:45 |
| luke-jr | LOL | 02:45 |
| GAN800 | You don't know that. | 02:45 |
| luke-jr | no | 02:45 |
| luke-jr | GAN800: I know that if it was REALLY a problem, they'd confiscate the devices | 02:45 |
| luke-jr | or else they're being utterly negligent | 02:45 |
| GAN800 | Can you tell me the frequencies every device on an aircraft operates on? | 02:45 |
| GAN800 | or guarantee that no device could possibly step on them? | 02:46 |
| luke-jr | GAN800: if it could cause trouble, why do they allow us to take it on the plane? | 02:46 |
| luke-jr | and risk us breaking rules? | 02:46 |
| ShadowJK | they even ask you to switch off mp3 players.. | 02:46 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: that might actually make sense | 02:47 |
| luke-jr | MP3 players could have a hard drive that could be damaged | 02:47 |
| ShadowJK | ... by the airport xrays :) | 02:47 |
| sp3000 | and geese | 02:48 |
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| ShadowJK | a laptop puts out loads of radio too, even with intentional radios off | 02:48 |
| Proteous | mine only plays Frank Sinatra :/ | 02:49 |
| ShadowJK | and on my n800 the touchscreen io lines crossover to headphone output, causing interference | 02:49 |
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| luke-jr | besides, doesn't the FCC require anything radio to both be OK with interference and not cause interference? | 02:50 |
| luke-jr | I would think it stupid for a plane to use intentionally unlicensed bands for anything important | 02:50 |
| ShadowJK | uh, they dont | 02:50 |
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| ShadowJK | and that's not the conceern | 02:51 |
| ShadowJK | gsm is actually particulary vicious, to the point you can even audibly hear it in many things | 02:52 |
| ShadowJK | my watch could be dangerous :) | 02:53 |
| Proteous | well, it induces current into preamp circuits and such causing audiable noises to come out the speakers | 02:53 |
| Proteous | the electronics in airplanes should be shielded against that stuff | 02:54 |
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| ShadowJK | the current plan seems to be to have picocells inside planes, so phones just have to whisper | 02:55 |
| Proteous | who wants to sit next to someone talking on thier cell phone for a 12 hour flight | 02:55 |
| Proteous | I would kill myself, or them | 02:55 |
| LiraNuna | how well does AGPS works? | 02:56 |
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| luke-jr | Proteous: cells don't work | 02:56 |
| Proteous | depends on the device | 02:56 |
| LiraNuna | Proteous, N810WE | 02:56 |
| ShadowJK | watch dangerous.. because it has a boost converter for the backlight, a chip switching poweer into an inductor... it's a minitransmitter really :) | 02:56 |
| luke-jr | LiraNuna: generally pretty good | 02:56 |
| LiraNuna | actual "fix in seconds" or? | 02:57 |
| luke-jr | Proteous: planes travel too fast for cell phones to communicate w/ cell towers | 02:57 |
| ShadowJK | and makes a faint audible noise too :) | 02:57 |
| Proteous | the n810 takes between 1 and 5 minutes to get a fix depending on visability of sats | 02:58 |
| ShadowJK | luke: ryanair was going to install cellphone basestation inside airplane. | 02:58 |
| Proteous | sometimes never if you are inside and can't see any Sats | 02:58 |
| luke-jr | Proteous: I'm at 2 hours waiting.. | 02:58 |
| Proteous | lol | 02:58 |
| Proteous | make a sammich | 02:59 |
| luke-jr | nevermind | 02:59 |
| luke-jr | it just got a fix finally | 02:59 |
| luke-jr | x.x | 02:59 |
| luke-jr | what's your altitude | 02:59 |
| luke-jr | mine is 1080 | 02:59 |
| ShadowJK | you'll have to wwait for better weather :) | 02:59 |
| ShadowJK | 60 | 02:59 |
| ShadowJK | all my nokia chargers scream now :( I wonder if they always did that, and I only started noticing after only sleeping with one computer running... or if they start screaming/whining due to old age | 03:01 |
| luke-jr | which sats can you see? | 03:01 |
| luke-jr | I can see23, 3, 19, 25, 13, 10, 6, 7, 8, and 16 | 03:01 |
| ShadowJK | im indoors, id see none | 03:02 |
| luke-jr | why? | 03:02 |
| luke-jr | I'm indoors too | 03:02 |
| ShadowJK | not even sirfstar sees | 03:02 |
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| ShadowJK | metal roof :) | 03:03 |
| luke-jr | I have a whole apartment above me :p | 03:03 |
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| LiraNuna | that's weird, I got a map installed in internal sd but 'maps' will not find it | 03:05 |
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| fauxmight | ShadowJK: I have two chargers. one screams and one does not. The screamer has a damaged cord and if I change its position, it will occasionally stop screaming. I'm sure it will fry me in my house one day, but it charges whether it screams or not. | 03:29 |
| fauxmight | I have two n810s in use else I wouldn't use the second charger. | 03:29 |
| GAN8001 | fauxmight, Amazon has the charger for about $2 a piece. | 03:31 |
| Proteous | the screaming is just some high frequency vibration probably from one of the tiny transformers or ICs in the charger | 03:33 |
| Proteous | usualy isn't something to worry about | 03:33 |
| Proteous | you can open it up and spread some hot glue around the part that is causing it if you want... | 03:34 |
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| Infekta | hello | 03:34 |
| Proteous | or just get a new one for $2 | 03:34 |
| Proteous | howdy Infekta | 03:34 |
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| Infekta | hey im curious about something... is there a way to change the internal MMC | 03:35 |
| Proteous | on an N810? | 03:35 |
| Proteous | no, it's soldered in | 03:35 |
| Infekta | yes | 03:35 |
| Infekta | fack | 03:35 |
| Infekta | lol | 03:35 |
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| Proteous | well, with the right tools you might be able to do it | 03:35 |
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| Proteous | no guarenttee it would work | 03:36 |
| Infekta | yeah i do have soldering tools | 03:36 |
| Infekta | but | 03:36 |
| Infekta | i dont think i will find a solderable SD card anywhere | 03:36 |
| Infekta | o well | 03:36 |
| lcuk | inside a normal sd card? | 03:36 |
| lcuk | unsolder that one ;) | 03:36 |
| Proteous | you would need tools to do really fine chip replacement | 03:36 |
| Proteous | different stuff then just a soldering iron | 03:37 |
| lcuk | hammer and chisel not fine enough? | 03:37 |
| Proteous | lol | 03:37 |
| Proteous | probably not | 03:37 |
| * lcuk used to work on circuit repair | 03:37 | |
| Proteous | cool | 03:37 |
| Proteous | I just worked on bigger stuff, use to do stereo repair | 03:37 |
| Proteous | regular soldering iron worked fine | 03:37 |
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| lcuk | yeah they would come out of the smt machine after the bath and layout | 03:38 |
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| lcuk | but it wasnt unheard of to get the wick out scoop up everything and replace half the board | 03:39 |
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| * lcuk cant think of the right name for his mini blowtorch | 03:39 | |
| Proteous | the smallest stuff I would do is surface mount resistors and caps | 03:39 |
| Proteous | no ICs | 03:39 |
| Proteous | well, not really small ones anyway | 03:40 |
| lcuk | easier to remove than to replace lol | 03:40 |
| Proteous | yeah | 03:40 |
| Proteous | fix peoples botched PS2 mods | 03:40 |
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| lcuk | most common soldering i bother with nowadays is mouse button replacement | 03:40 |
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| Proteous | that's pretty extreme | 03:41 |
| Proteous | considering a new mouse is $5.00 | 03:41 |
| lcuk | not relaly, i like my mouse and i cant find em anywhere brick n mortor lol | 03:41 |
| Proteous | heh | 03:41 |
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| * lcuk 's mouse has balls | 03:42 | |
| Proteous | last soldering I did was solder together my arcade control panel | 03:42 |
| lcuk | a ball :| | 03:42 |
| Proteous | fuckin ball mice | 03:42 |
| Proteous | what a joke | 03:42 |
| Proteous | heh | 03:42 |
| lcuk | works and is the right weight :) | 03:43 |
| Infekta | if all else fails | 03:43 |
| Infekta | use a shotgun | 03:43 |
| lcuk | and laser mice have a nasty habit of shooting off west when i pick em up and wiggle em | 03:43 |
| Infekta | lol | 03:43 |
| Infekta | coz they got a vasectomy at birth | 03:44 |
| lcuk | "omg omg the floor under me moved, quick send the pointer to africa | 03:44 |
| lcuk | whereas a ball mouse merely twitches :) | 03:44 |
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| chx | I use an Evoulent Vertical Mouse | 03:58 |
| chx | definitely not the five bucks category | 03:58 |
| chx | but soooooo comfy | 03:58 |
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| GAN800 | lcuk, you need a mousepad and a mouse that doesn't suck | 04:09 |
| GAN800 | The MX518 is really nice. | 04:09 |
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| GAN800 | Merging these tablet school articles is going to be a pain. | 04:12 |
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| Bobbe | morning | 05:03 |
| GAN800 | lol . . . American Idol. Rod Stewart got old. | 05:04 |
| Bobbe | lol | 05:05 |
| Bobbe | his face looks like a broken mirror or something | 05:05 |
| Bobbe | wrinkles held still with botox or sth | 05:05 |
| disco_stu | hi | 05:16 |
| Macer | chernobyl set off alarms in sweden :) | 05:20 |
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| Macer | hm | 06:10 |
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| cyrus_mc | which package provides tools like mkfs.ext2, ext3 for maemo (I have an n810) | 06:58 |
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| Bobbe | e2fsprogs | 07:08 |
| Bobbe | it's in extras-devel | 07:08 |
| Bobbe | cyrus_mc, u there? | 07:10 |
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| cyrus_mc | ya | 07:12 |
| cyrus_mc | ok..I need ot add that repos | 07:12 |
| cyrus_mc | any idea where I get it or the details to add to the repos file | 07:12 |
| Bobbe | http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras#Extras-devel | 07:15 |
| Bobbe | there will be a link like 'click this .install to add the repo' or sth similar | 07:15 |
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| cyrus_mc | k | 07:18 |
| cyrus_mc | ty | 07:18 |
| Bobbe | np | 07:18 |
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| cyrus_mc | Bobbe - i enabled that repos but e2fsprogs is still not available | 07:35 |
| cyrus_mc | hmm.had to reboot and then it was availble | 07:37 |
| cyrus_mc | strange..never had to do that before when adding a repo | 07:37 |
| Macer | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133044 | 07:37 |
| Macer | i want to make a gaming box in that case | 07:37 |
| Macer | that thing is awesome | 07:38 |
| Macer | i should start pricing everything | 07:38 |
| luke-jr | Facebook: "Matthew is killing the environment, one clorox spill at a time." | 07:38 |
| luke-jr | XD | 07:38 |
| Macer | phenom IIs are still using am+ right? | 07:39 |
| Macer | or do they use am3? | 07:39 |
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| ShadowJK | supposedly backwards compatible | 07:40 |
| luke-jr | Macer: most CPUs come in more than one socket | 07:40 |
| luke-jr | at least for AMD | 07:40 |
| ShadowJK | (if you can find bios upgrade for your old mobo)) | 07:41 |
| ShadowJK | i've almost managed to squeeze 800 mAh out of this n800 battery now :) but it's on the edge of triggering the low alert... | 07:43 |
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| Macer | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675 | 07:50 |
| Macer | that is not bad for that kind of processor | 07:51 |
| Macer | a comparable i7 costs twice as much | 07:54 |
| Macer | wow | 07:54 |
| luke-jr | $()@*$@ | 07:54 |
| luke-jr | stupid N810 | 07:54 |
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| ShadowJK | comparable? no i7 is comparable, they don't go that low | 07:55 |
| Macer | lol | 07:56 |
| Macer | there is a 2.91GHz i7 | 07:56 |
| Macer | but.. they sell Phenom IIs that are X3? | 07:56 |
| Macer | wtf? | 07:56 |
| ShadowJK | yeah but 2.91GHz i7 has performance of a 4.5GHz phenomII, or something like that... | 07:57 |
| Macer | lol | 07:58 |
| Macer | oh cmon :) you are exagerating | 07:58 |
| luke-jr | Macer: not sure he is | 07:59 |
| luke-jr | it's quite possible | 07:59 |
| luke-jr | Macer: 3-core systems are quad-core, but with a dud core disabled | 07:59 |
| ShadowJK | corr2quad is better comparison, and there the performance for a 225 dollar non-s c2q is similar to that phenomII | 07:59 |
| luke-jr | my fastest system is a single-core (dual core didn't exist back then) Athlon64 3200+ | 08:00 |
| Macer | luke-jr: i know but i figured they fixed their fabrication | 08:01 |
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| Macer | and stopped releasing those | 08:01 |
| Macer | they seriously need to | 08:01 |
| luke-jr | Macer: uh, defects will always exist | 08:01 |
| luke-jr | always have, always will | 08:01 |
| ShadowJK | there is no 'fix' | 08:01 |
| luke-jr | it's not cost efficient to "fix" it to be perfect | 08:02 |
| luke-jr | just disable a core and sell it for a bit less | 08:02 |
| Macer | well... usually defect is you have to sell it at a lower clock speed | 08:02 |
| Macer | not disable an entire core :) | 08:02 |
| luke-jr | in quad-core systems, all 4 cores need to be the same speed :p | 08:02 |
| luke-jr | so one lower spec would pull the other 3 down | 08:03 |
| Macer | i know | 08:03 |
| luke-jr | sometimes it makes better sense to just forego the fourth | 08:03 |
| Macer | i think with the amds though.. the actual core was faulty | 08:03 |
| Macer | broken. | 08:03 |
| Macer | it is like selling a new car with a donut for a 4th tire | 08:03 |
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| ShadowJK | sometimes they dont run correct at any acceptable speeds at acceptable voltages | 08:04 |
| * RST38x moos | 08:04 | |
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| Macer | then they should recycle them and save their company from the utter destruction it caused | 08:04 |
| Macer | :) | 08:05 |
| Macer | instead of being stuck in 2nd rate status | 08:05 |
| ShadowJK | there's even X2 phenomII, but I think they call them something different :) | 08:05 |
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| luke-jr | Macer: some people would rather save money on 3-core than get a quad-core | 08:05 |
| Macer | how did they find out the 4th core was broken? | 08:05 |
| Macer | did they sell them and people noticed it wasn't working? | 08:05 |
| RST38h | luke: those people will all buy atoms now :) | 08:05 |
| Macer | RST38h: haha.. i agree :) | 08:06 |
| ShadowJK | uh, they test them all? | 08:06 |
| Macer | i see | 08:06 |
| Macer | and when they first released them. were they all X3s? | 08:06 |
| Macer | no offense. but amd should have sucked up the short term losses and shelved the X3s and released only good X4s at the time of its release | 08:07 |
| Macer | now they are forced to sell their flagship at an incredibly low price because there is a stigma about them that they make inferior products | 08:08 |
| luke-jr | Macer: the short term losses are infinite | 08:08 |
| luke-jr | is there a stigma? | 08:08 |
| Macer | i think there is :) | 08:08 |
| RST38h | what stigma? | 08:08 |
| luke-jr | I think the people who understand a X3 is an X4 with a core disabled is few | 08:08 |
| luke-jr | and out of those who do understand it, most understand that it's just fine | 08:09 |
| ShadowJK | intel's bottleneck in meeting demand for atom was actually in testing.. they could fit shitloads of them on a disc but their testing pipeline was designed for fewer amount and yield of chips that they'd get with huge cpus like core2 | 08:09 |
| luke-jr | and besides, what will they buy instead? | 08:09 |
| luke-jr | Intel does the same thing | 08:09 |
| Macer | luke-jr: but intel never released a processor with a core turned off | 08:10 |
| RST38h | testing cores for certain clock frequencies and releasing "faulty" cores with lower frequency rating is a standard practice | 08:10 |
| Macer | amd released the fight club recall car :) | 08:10 |
| Macer | yes.. with lower freqs | 08:10 |
| Macer | amd released a cpu that it was boasting about for a long time | 08:10 |
| ShadowJK | yeah x3 are nice, you get 3 good cores at discount, they're likely to overclock much better than x4 :) | 08:10 |
| Macer | on how great its quad core performance was going to be | 08:10 |
| luke-jr | Macer: Intel releases core-disabled CPUs *all the time* | 08:10 |
| RST38h | selling chips that have non-working parts with different part number is also a standard practice | 08:10 |
| luke-jr | Macer: Just like AMD | 08:10 |
| luke-jr | what do you think the Core Trio is? | 08:11 |
| RST38h | The best example is probably a bunch of 68EC030 chips that were 68030 with faulty MMU | 08:11 |
| Macer | luke-jr: but it didn't release that information :) . i think broken when i think X3 | 08:11 |
| RST38h | what is core trio? | 08:11 |
| RST38h | please, do tell me | 08:12 |
| luke-jr | Macer: that's a problem isolated to yourself | 08:12 |
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| Macer | luke-jr: well.. i would agree with you if amd wasn't selling their top line cpus at crackhead prices to play catch up to intel | 08:12 |
| ShadowJK | inteo releases cpus with parts of cache disabled... cache takes up huge amount of die, so there's good chance defects will occur there | 08:12 |
| Macer | and i am sure the amd stock took a hit when it was discovered there was a MAJOR flaw in their destign that caused huge amounts of processors to come out as X3s instead of the quad core it was supposed to be marketed as | 08:13 |
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| Macer | let me check :) | 08:13 |
| ian_at_synth | hey, any savvy maemo mapper users/devs in here? my copy of MM just stopped being able to download Gstreet or Gsat maps for some reason, and i'm not sure how to fix it | 08:13 |
| Macer | let's see if i can find out when amd released the phenom and people discovered they were X3s instead of what they said it was supposed to be | 08:15 |
| ShadowJK | uh, intel most likely has same rate of defects per die area as amd, amd just sells more of the good stuff instead of dumping into landfill | 08:15 |
| RST38h | AMD marketed Phenom as x3 from the beginning | 08:15 |
| RST38h | So, folks, I am not sure what you are arguing about | 08:15 |
| ShadowJK | yep, they promised x3 and x2 parts in addition to x4 parts long before the launch | 08:16 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: I guess someone made it up | 08:17 |
| Macer | RST38h: uhm. | 08:17 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: see the disclaimer above that my fastest CPU is single-core | 08:17 |
| Macer | the phenom was supposed to be a quad core cpu from teh beginning | 08:17 |
| Macer | not an x3 | 08:17 |
| RST38h | luke: Right. | 08:18 |
| ian_at_synth | does maemo mapper store preferences anywhere other than the Maps directory and the /home/user/.maemo-mapper dir? i've tried deleting those directories and removing/reinstalling maemo mapper, but it still fails to download Gstreet or Gsat maps. all other map repos work... | 08:18 |
| Macer | before it was released amd was saying they were supposed to be quad core cpus... the only reason they released them as x3 was because there was a flaw | 08:18 |
| luke-jr | someone has a 40+ core CPU IIRC | 08:18 |
| luke-jr | ian_at_synth: no doubt Google broke those by changing things | 08:19 |
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| ian_at_synth | i just spoke to my brother, and he said he was able to download from them still... | 08:20 |
| RST38h | Macer: whatever AMD was saying before relase does not matter | 08:20 |
| Macer | tell that to politicians | 08:20 |
| luke-jr | lol | 08:20 |
| luke-jr | pretty sure the politicians all know that XD | 08:21 |
| ShadowJK | amd might actually be selling cpus with 4 working cores as x3, people who've bought x3 and re-enabled the fourth core haven't been able to find anything wrong with the fourth :) | 08:21 |
| luke-jr | you can't reenable it | 08:22 |
| luke-jr | the core is laser-cut off | 08:22 |
| Macer | http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2007/07/27/amd_shows_off_phenom_at_3ghz/1 | 08:22 |
| ShadowJK | the demand for x3 was probably higher than amd thought it would be, or they get less dies with too broken cores now | 08:22 |
| Macer | In order to prove that its soon-to-be-released Phenom processor isn.t broken... | 08:22 |
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| RST38h | Shadow: When AMD says "core does not work" it may not actually mean that the core does not work at all | 08:23 |
| RST38h | Shadow: All it means is that one of 10000+ tests failed on this core at the clock frequency they rated that chip at | 08:24 |
| pupnik | the wlan icon should show signal strength | 08:24 |
| RST38h | So, you can reenable and use it, but AMD will not guarantee that it won't screw you up in some really weird way | 08:24 |
| pupnik | morning rst | 08:24 |
| RST38h | ehlo pupnik | 08:24 |
| pupnik | my t42p died :( | 08:25 |
| * pupnik cries | 08:25 | |
| pupnik | n810 lives tho | 08:25 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr: http://my.ocworkbench.com/2009/asrock/M3A790GXH-128M-Review/g1.htm for example | 08:26 |
| Macer | RST38h: i am telling you. the fact remains that after the phenom was released it was described as a broken cpu due to the X3 method amd used :) i am trying to track their stock in relation | 08:26 |
| Macer | from july it had taken 7 quarterly losses | 08:27 |
| Macer | of 2008 | 08:27 |
| ShadowJK | but they announced x3 parts well before the release... | 08:27 |
| Macer | the actual economic mainsteram collapse occured around aug | 08:27 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: and that is when their stock started taking hits | 08:28 |
| Macer | because the world viewed them flaunting how they were beating intel and releasing a quad core cpu ... | 08:28 |
| Macer | then didn't deliver and released what most considered a broken cpu with the X3 | 08:29 |
| Macer | if you look at a 3 or 5 year graph of their stock you will see it as they are beating intel in the cpu race | 08:29 |
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| Macer | it spikes .. then dives | 08:29 |
| Macer | after the release of broken phenoms | 08:29 |
| pupnik | vgba still rules | 08:29 |
| Macer | making amd non-profitable because the world shifted to intel for "quality" cpus :) | 08:30 |
| Macer | i am not saying that a phenom is a bad cpu. i think it is a good one. but they are forced to sell it at absolutely lowest pricing to push it out | 08:30 |
| Macer | while intel is reaping in a price tag of $400+ for theirs | 08:30 |
| pupnik | amd must survive | 08:30 |
| RST38h | or intel gets sued as a monopoly :) | 08:30 |
| RST38h | so, yes, amd should survive :) | 08:31 |
| ShadowJK | well no, it's a bad cpu, but x3 and x2 are irrelevant in that context :p | 08:31 |
| Macer | well... amd is in a freefall now and it all started when they finally started to beat intel in the cpu race | 08:31 |
| Macer | and released X3s and the market viewed them as broken | 08:31 |
| pupnik | maybe ati will save amd | 08:31 |
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| Macer | since they were boasting a "better than intel quad core cpu" | 08:32 |
| Macer | and did not deliver | 08:32 |
| RST38h | can't beat intel in x86 cpu race | 08:32 |
| Macer | like the hare that took a nap | 08:32 |
| Macer | RST38h: they could have :) they screwed up | 08:32 |
| RST38h | amd should have known | 08:32 |
| pupnik | maybe they can innovate in power saving | 08:32 |
| RST38h | Macer: Intel simply learned a lesson and caught up, that's all | 08:32 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Transmeta and later VIA tried that | 08:33 |
| pupnik | mhm | 08:33 |
| Macer | i honestly believe if they kept the X3s under wraps and released the X4s for a while.. then said "we have these somewhat defective cpus but they work and we will sell them cheap" | 08:33 |
| RST38h | But the fact is that users do not care about power in desktops | 08:33 |
| johnx | intel fell asleep at the wheel for years, and came back out of nowhere | 08:33 |
| ShadowJK | i don't think x3 makes a difference, with phenomII X4 amd said they'd catch up with intel, but they're still barely able to perform like low-end intel c2q, and intel i7 is far ahead... | 08:33 |
| Macer | they should have never released the X3s in the beginning | 08:33 |
| pupnik | in eu they will begin to rst | 08:33 |
| johnx | that's the power of having a huge amount of money to blow on R&D | 08:33 |
| pupnik | yep | 08:33 |
| Macer | the market would have accepted it if they eased into it | 08:34 |
| Macer | but releasing the X3s and saying the word "problem" was AMDs biggest mistake | 08:34 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: only if artifically made to care | 08:35 |
| RST38h | pupnik: like by some law | 08:35 |
| RST38h | anyways, off to work | 08:36 |
| pupnik | cheers | 08:36 |
| luke-jr | Macer: AMD didn't say "problem" :p | 08:36 |
| ShadowJK | they never did say problem. journalists said it, along with praising amd for being clever and not dumping those cpus in landfills like intel does | 08:36 |
| ShadowJK | enthusiasts and journalists actually like the advantages x3 and x2 gives, so I have a hard time seeing it as a mistake... | 08:38 |
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| ShadowJK | you could just as well say intel q9550 ayou could just as well say intel q9550 are broken and that intel should bin them instead of charging extra for the fixed q9550s :) | 08:41 |
| Macer | AMD currently has no answer for Intel's upcoming SSE4 instructions, which may widen the performance gap further in selected applications. On the other hand, unlike Intel's quad-core parts, which are basically two dual-core CPUs using a shared bus interface, Phenom has four distinct cores, which should also offer benefits. | 08:43 |
| Macer | washington post 2007 | 08:43 |
| Macer | november | 08:43 |
| Macer | http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=AMD&time=5yr | 08:44 |
| * Macer points at november 2007 | 08:44 | |
| Macer | He also said the scarcity of review units was due to the complexity of a rollout that also involves the new 790FX Spider chip set and ATI 3800 series graphics cards, not because of any problem fabricating the new chips | 08:46 |
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| Macer | now mind you they had 1 month from a rollout.. and they are telling the washington post their "QUAD CORE" cpu is being released. | 08:46 |
| luke-jr | are you guys STILL going on about the core thing? | 08:48 |
| Macer | no. but i am reading about it | 08:49 |
| luke-jr | omfg | 08:49 |
| luke-jr | how hard is it to just PICK ONE AND BUY | 08:49 |
| luke-jr | you're spending more time on it than the price difference is worth | 08:49 |
| Macer | er.. i'm not :) | 08:49 |
| Macer | i already bought the phenom II | 08:49 |
| Macer | lol | 08:50 |
| Myrtti | luke-jr: is it spent from your pocket or your time? | 08:50 |
| Macer | the discussion was really on the fact that amd released a faulty processor and sold it off and that it was seen as being broken | 08:50 |
| Macer | http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/news/2007/10/rattner | 08:51 |
| luke-jr | Myrtti: well, it keeps making the channel red | 08:51 |
| Macer | that's wired magazine's interview with intel's cto | 08:51 |
| Proteous | I'm happy with my Phenom x4 | 08:51 |
| Macer | :) at the bottom he talks about amd | 08:51 |
| Macer | So, yes, (AMD has) a four-core product. I'm sure when they looked at their yield losses, they said, "Wow, we can offer a three-core version of this if one of those cores are dead or slow or whatever it turns out to be." | 08:52 |
| ShadowJK | now that's an unbiased person to ask :) | 08:52 |
| Macer | lol | 08:52 |
| Macer | no.. it is hard to tell if he is defending them or helping them | 08:52 |
| Macer | at the very bottom where he talks about amd's tri cores | 08:52 |
| ShadowJK | well intel too sells with various combinations of broken cache | 08:53 |
| Macer | amd said they released them because there was a small market for quad cores haha | 08:53 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: but it didn't disable the core because the cache was broken | 08:53 |
| ShadowJK | while amd sells also the ones with working cache but a broken core | 08:53 |
| Macer | heh | 08:54 |
| Macer | Rattner: I wouldn't make that much of it. This is a yield-improvement technique, plain and simple. IBM and Sony with their Cell processor -- they have eight (processors) on that that chip, and they said, well seven is the actually the number and one is a spare, or one is dead | 08:54 |
| ShadowJK | because both do the broken cache thing nobody thinks about it anymore | 08:54 |
| Macer | look at that.. bitchslapped 3 competitors with one statement | 08:54 |
| Macer | that guy is my hero :) | 08:54 |
| Macer | and even makes it look like he is being nice when really he is saying "our shit is less broken than theirs" | 08:55 |
| Macer | haha | 08:55 |
| ShadowJK | he isn't saying or implying that though :) | 08:55 |
| Macer | i don't know. it looks like he picked his words very carefully for that one | 08:56 |
| Macer | where he doesn't want to come off as arrogant but still wants to bitchslap the other guys | 08:56 |
| Macer | i mean if you read into it... he is saying "sure.. sometimes things aren't perfect.. but ibm and sony are selling dead cell processors and amd is releasing something that can't compete against us since it's also broken" | 08:57 |
| ShadowJK | he's probably jelous intel didn't think of it first :) but that might also be because intel didn't have any genuine 4core cpus | 08:57 |
| Macer | lol.. i suppose not.. but still he was probably clicking his heels after that interview | 08:58 |
| Macer | he just got put into the #2 spot of Macer's hero list... bill gates is still #1 | 08:58 |
| ShadowJK | they glue together 2 dual cores, so that gives them higher yields at cost of performance, but they're so far ahead it doesnt matter if they're 50 or 55 percent faster :) | 08:59 |
| Macer | lol | 08:59 |
| Macer | yeah i suppose they aren't "spider" tech.. but they were doing pretty well with that method | 09:00 |
| Macer | like i said. i think amd produces some awesome processors .. but that X3... it just left a bad taste | 09:00 |
| Proteous | ... | 09:01 |
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| johnx | ah the aeshetics of choosing a CPU :) | 09:01 |
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| Proteous | I go by price mostly... | 09:02 |
| johnx | same here. usually I end up buying the mobo+cpu special of the week when it looks good enough | 09:02 |
| Proteous | heh | 09:02 |
| Proteous | yeah | 09:02 |
| johnx | but I might not upgrade my desktop anymore at this rate | 09:02 |
| Proteous | why doesn't anyone make true vertical LCDs | 09:03 |
| Macer | ever buy an X3? :) | 09:03 |
| Proteous | I have an X4 | 09:03 |
| Macer | why not the X3? | 09:03 |
| Proteous | almost got an X3 but newegg had a crazy deal on the X4 that I got | 09:03 |
| johnx | Macer, I'll wait until there is a fry's or newegg special on an x3+mobo :) | 09:03 |
| Proteous | ended up being cheaper | 09:03 |
| ShadowJK | theinquirer has high praize for x3 saying it's the most exciting thing for enthusiasts in many years :) | 09:03 |
| Macer | inquirer? | 09:04 |
| Proteous | heh | 09:04 |
| Macer | isn't that a tabloid? | 09:04 |
| Proteous | that's enquierer | 09:04 |
| Proteous | or whatever | 09:04 |
| ShadowJK | no | 09:04 |
| Macer | ah .. :) i see | 09:04 |
| Proteous | but yeah, inquirer almost is | 09:04 |
| Macer | Proteous: haha | 09:04 |
| Macer | is everything ok in the world of nokia? | 09:05 |
| ShadowJK | now nvidia on the other hand has a real defect issue on hand | 09:05 |
| Proteous | no, my n97 hasn't arrived yet | 09:05 |
| Proteous | I have a friend who works at Nvidia | 09:05 |
| Macer | does the n97 support tmob? | 09:05 |
| Macer | 3G? | 09:05 |
| Proteous | no | 09:05 |
| Macer | damnit | 09:05 |
| Macer | :) | 09:05 |
| Proteous | nothing does except special Tmobile phones | 09:05 |
| ljp | Macer: just peachy | 09:05 |
| Macer | Proteous: that sucks... i want an n9x that supports tmob already | 09:06 |
| ShadowJK | almost all their chips from the last few years are dying (physically) | 09:06 |
| Proteous | they use the standard 1900 and 2100 freq but in a different way | 09:06 |
| Macer | i thought they used 1700 | 09:06 |
| Proteous | not compatable with your normal 3g phones that work on ATT | 09:06 |
| Proteous | who can remember numbers | 09:06 |
| Proteous | gah | 09:06 |
| Macer | heh | 09:06 |
| Proteous | I'd have to look it up to double check | 09:06 |
| Macer | works with their edge :-\ | 09:06 |
| Proteous | but it still won't work :P | 09:06 |
| Proteous | yeah | 09:07 |
| Macer | but that's just not cutting it | 09:07 |
| Proteous | works with edge | 09:07 |
| Macer | i take my n95 when i don't need to do net stuff.. like taking my son to the park | 09:07 |
| Proteous | it's sad, tmobile has better data plans | 09:07 |
| Macer | it takes awesome photos and video | 09:07 |
| * Proteous cries | 09:07 | |
| Macer | yeah they sure do | 09:07 |
| Macer | i *HATE* att :) | 09:07 |
| Macer | if i am ever in my lifetime in a position to buy them out and sell them at a loss i would do it | 09:07 |
| Proteous | and tmobile is putting up a new tower 1000 feet from my house... | 09:08 |
| Macer | haha | 09:08 |
| Macer | you might as well run a cat6 cable to it | 09:08 |
| Proteous | lol | 09:08 |
| Macer | i like my G1.. android isn't too bad.. but man i LOVE my n95 and wish it woudl work with tmob's 3G | 09:09 |
| Proteous | there's always the palm preeeeeeee | 09:09 |
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| Macer | i wouldn't buy a thing that has Web in its OS name :) | 09:09 |
| Proteous | lol | 09:09 |
| Proteous | I almost got a G1 but I wanted a higher rez screen | 09:10 |
| Macer | the gigabyte n810 wannabe seemed nice tho | 09:10 |
| Proteous | and something with a battery that lasts more then 4 hours | 09:10 |
| Macer | Proteous: yeah. it's pretty low | 09:10 |
| Macer | Proteous: you can get an extended battery for it | 09:10 |
| Proteous | yeah | 09:10 |
| Proteous | I was mostly joking about the battery part | 09:10 |
| Macer | they have a 2600mah for $50 from some company that lasts like 48 hours | 09:10 |
| Macer | but it bulks up your phone :) | 09:10 |
| Proteous | I bet | 09:10 |
| Proteous | you could make one that fits in a special belt that is connected to the phone by a cord | 09:11 |
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| Macer | but i seriously love my n95 .. i want 3G on it with tmob :( | 09:11 |
| Proteous | really? | 09:11 |
| Proteous | you don't say | 09:11 |
| Macer | have you used an n97? | 09:11 |
| Proteous | no querty for ssh == no good | 09:11 |
| Macer | haha | 09:12 |
| Macer | yeah that does kind of suck | 09:12 |
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| Macer | but there's always an su9w bt keyboard ;) | 09:12 |
| Macer | 8w | 09:12 |
| Proteous | hard to use while walking down the street | 09:12 |
| ShadowJK | e70 is the best for ssh :) | 09:12 |
| Macer | i don't ssh while walking down teh street ;) | 09:12 |
| Proteous | if you want to see 4 letters at at time sure | 09:12 |
| Macer | i wanted the n95 more for the video capabilities than anything | 09:12 |
| Proteous | then you are not l337 Macer | 09:13 |
| Proteous | lol | 09:13 |
| Macer | well.. and the 3G :) | 09:13 |
| Macer | haha | 09:13 |
| Proteous | heh | 09:13 |
| Proteous | I use ssh for my IM and email | 09:13 |
| Macer | and the cam | 09:13 |
| Proteous | so it's important | 09:13 |
| Macer | you use it for IM? :) why not just use an app on the phone? | 09:13 |
| Macer | for both actually | 09:13 |
| Proteous | because I can have a persistant IM/irc session that runs on a server that I can connect to from wherever I can get a ssh session, which is anywhere | 09:14 |
| Proteous | it's very usefull | 09:14 |
| Macer | speaking of n95.. i need to use it tomorrow so i should swap the sim out | 09:14 |
| Proteous | ssh+screen+irssi+bitlbee | 09:14 |
| Proteous | +mutt | 09:15 |
| Proteous | heh | 09:15 |
| locutus | its a bummer that the n810 has no alt key :-/ | 09:15 |
| Macer | today is thurs? wtf? | 09:15 |
| locutus | makes Emacs unusable for me | 09:15 |
| Proteous | makes irssi more dificult to use as well | 09:15 |
| Proteous | although you can haxor the keyboard to add one I belive | 09:16 |
| locutus | also, no pipe | 09:16 |
| Proteous | never tried myself | 09:16 |
| locutus | wtf | 09:16 |
| ShadowJK | none of them have esc/alt :( | 09:16 |
| ShadowJK | but i guess you have esc in xterm on the touchscreen of n810 and pipe is addable there | 09:17 |
| Macer | hm. i haven't gotten paid yet. wtf | 09:17 |
| * Macer will give them til 2 | 09:17 | |
| Macer | i'm on sick leave so my pay has gotten strange | 09:17 |
| Proteous | then you will put strychnine in the guacamole | 09:18 |
| ShadowJK | i found a cheap bt keyboard, but I find i only use it occasionally, even with n800 | 09:18 |
| Proteous | a BT keyboard sorta defeats the purpouse of having a tablet for me | 09:19 |
| ShadowJK | i discovered I have insufficient number of hands for holding both keyboard and device :) | 09:19 |
| Proteous | lol | 09:19 |
| Macer | Proteous: i couldn't stand pecking at my n800 anymore | 09:19 |
| Proteous | some sort of belt mounted stand | 09:19 |
| Proteous | then you could ssh while walking down the street | 09:19 |
| Macer | especially after i got a g1 and used the qwerty for a while | 09:20 |
| Proteous | and with a keyboard mounted to your crotch you'd be soooo l337 | 09:20 |
| Macer | Proteous: i always figured that someone would make pressure gloves | 09:20 |
| Macer | :) | 09:20 |
| Proteous | I had a 770, wasn't too fond of the OSK | 09:20 |
| Macer | where you walk down the street typing with your hands | 09:20 |
| ShadowJK | oddly my n810 is on the desk and im using n800... the touchscreen on it annoys me less | 09:20 |
| Macer | and have your phone hooked up into glasses that give you a hud | 09:20 |
| Proteous | I also wasn't too fond of the WSOD | 09:21 |
| Proteous | heh | 09:21 |
| Macer | why hasn't anybody made hud glasses yet? | 09:21 |
| Proteous | heh | 09:21 |
| Macer | they can't be that hard to make | 09:21 |
| ShadowJK | there are hud glasses | 09:21 |
| Macer | are there ?? | 09:21 |
| Proteous | because it's not easy, and there isn't much of a market for it, and they give you a nasty headache | 09:21 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: are they huge? | 09:21 |
| ShadowJK | i've seen them mentioned in context of beagleboard | 09:21 |
| Macer | like 5" thick or something? | 09:22 |
| Proteous | heh, yes | 09:22 |
| Macer | damn :) | 09:22 |
| Macer | someone needs to make them the size of normal glasses | 09:22 |
| Macer | haha | 09:22 |
| ShadowJK | a bit thicker than sunglasses it looked like on the photos | 09:22 |
| * Macer pictures having a phone in his glasses | 09:22 | |
| Macer | oakley makes mp3 glasses.. why not hud? cmon oakley! | 09:22 |
| Macer | wtf | 09:23 |
| Proteous | from yesterday: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/19/1734244 | 09:23 |
| Macer | I have been awaiting a lightweight, head-mounted display that actually has decent resolution and doesn't look like a brick tied to your face | 09:23 |
| Macer | hahahaha | 09:23 |
| Proteous | hehe | 09:23 |
| ShadowJK | they're all low res :( | 09:24 |
| Macer | wow | 09:24 |
| johnx | hmm, there was one that didn't look bad to me | 09:24 |
| Macer | those wrap 920s are pretty awesome | 09:25 |
| johnx | you looked at it by glancing down | 09:25 |
| ShadowJK | for tv and video, i guess | 09:25 |
| Macer | Coming Fall of 2009 | 09:25 |
| Macer | he is right though. the res is too low | 09:25 |
| Macer | but those might be awesome for a phone. how do they get the video? | 09:25 |
| johnx | depends on what you want to use it for | 09:25 |
| ShadowJK | composite probably | 09:26 |
| johnx | a heads up gps, weather/time, incoming mail/msg/call kind of thing wouldn't be bad | 09:26 |
| Macer | johnx: no it wouldn't | 09:26 |
| Macer | wonder how much those will cost | 09:27 |
| Macer | i want some :) | 09:27 |
| johnx | 320x240 for some arrows and text with lots of antialiasing | 09:27 |
| ShadowJK | what can you get out of the video out on highend nokias, svideo and composite? | 09:27 |
| Macer | 640x480 is kind of crappy but | 09:27 |
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| Macer | ShadowJK: i have never tried it | 09:27 |
| ShadowJK | lots of aliasing you mean? :) | 09:27 |
| johnx | http://www.myvu.com/Myvyu-Shades-C25.aspx <- these look a lot goofier on him then I pictured they would :/ | 09:27 |
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| Macer | lol! | 09:28 |
| Macer | yeah they do | 09:28 |
| johnx | heh, well the aliasing is free, the antialiasing is user provided ;P | 09:28 |
| Macer | the wrap looks a lot more realistic | 09:28 |
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| johnx | he might just be a goofy looking guy though :D | 09:28 |
| johnx | the thing is I want a glance down interface, not something covering my whole field of vision | 09:29 |
| pupnik | cool | 09:30 |
| ShadowJK | and they must be indistinguishable from normal glasses so your boss doesn't realize you're watching simpsons | 09:32 |
| johnx | still, this stuff is a lot closer than it was 10 years ago :D | 09:33 |
| pupnik | taking too long. govt thieving capital. not enough tech investment | 09:34 |
| johnx | I remember looking at it in 1999/2000 and it cost more than I paid for my current car ... | 09:34 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:06 |
| sanjay6976 | morning | 11:06 |
| sanjay6976 | af-sb-init.sh command not found | 11:07 |
| sanjay6976 | hi | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | morning jaffaf | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | -f | 11:07 |
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| sanjay6976 | i am getting an error af-sb-init.sh command not found | 11:08 |
| sanjay6976 | in DIABLO_ARMEL while giving af-sb-init.sh start | 11:08 |
| Macer | The shift supervisor then deceived the radiation control supervisor and entered the room of the incident and possibly attempted to pour the solution down a floor drain, causing a large nuclear reaction that irradiated the shift supervisor with a fatal dose of radiation. The shift supervisor's actions are the subject of a Darwin Award.[11] | 11:09 |
| Macer | lol | 11:09 |
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| Macer | Cherenkov radiation is produced by charged particles which are travelling through a dielectric substance at a speed greater than the speed of light in that medium. | 11:25 |
| Macer | wtf | 11:25 |
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| pupnik | #physics | 11:27 |
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| lcuk2 | what dates are the summit on again | 11:42 |
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| Stskeeps | october, start | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | i think | 11:43 |
| yerga | 9-11? | 11:44 |
| yerga | of october I mean | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 11:44 |
| lcuk2 | got it \o thx | 11:45 |
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| lardman | morning | 13:04 |
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| pupnik | hi lardster | 13:12 |
| * pupnik passes out lard to all | 13:12 | |
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| * lardman gets the bacon frying | 13:20 | |
| lardman | pupnik: you're first in line don't worry | 13:20 |
| lcuk | only because you have bacon fat introvenously | 13:21 |
| robtaylor | mmm. introveinous bacon | 13:28 |
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| lardman | might have to be lardons so they can travel through the valves | 13:34 |
| lardman | small lardons at that | 13:34 |
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| VDVsx | how should we test the application suggested here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Accelerometers ? | 13:45 |
| VDVsx | I don't have the device :P | 13:45 |
| lcuk | didnt someone have a usb one plugged in? and isnt craves1 working on some addin for it | 13:46 |
| lcuk | does the wiimote driver work, or can it be jimmied to supply values on that same /sys/class branch? | 13:47 |
| VDVsx | well, it's using the future d-bus accelerometer interface, so I think is fremantle specific | 13:48 |
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| lcuk | ok, but if we could hackup the wiimote stack to fake it but using the same location and values as the expected future stuff then it would work wouldnt it? | 13:49 |
| lcuk | i remember looking at wiimote stuff a couple of years ago and the params that the wiki page says looks pretty similar to all that stuff | 13:50 |
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| VDVsx | if we can plug some kinda of acceleromter to the SDK, we probably can test this feature, or probably not, letme check :P | 13:50 |
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| lcuk | what does i2c-adapter mean | 13:51 |
| lcuk | cos google is giving me results from lots of places | 13:51 |
| lcuk | not accel specific | 13:51 |
| VDVsx | is a path | 13:51 |
| lcuk | ahhhhh | 13:52 |
| lcuk | "The I2C bus helps you monitor the health of your system" | 13:52 |
| lcuk | so its a generic input device - for fans and temp and stuff as wlel | 13:52 |
| VDVsx | where normally are some kinda o hardware sensors, bluetooth, leds | 13:53 |
| lcuk | openmoko has accel :O | 13:53 |
| VDVsx | yes two | 13:53 |
| lcuk | kewl | 13:53 |
| VDVsx | apparently the same model that the fremantle device will have | 13:54 |
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| VDVsx | anyway gonna ask on talk, if there is some magic way to test the stuff on that page or it is just for the luck ones with the device :P | 13:56 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, do you still have your openmoko | 13:56 |
| lcuk | and does it still work | 13:56 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, yes :P | 13:57 |
| lcuk | have you considered getting mer onto it and testing this yourself | 13:57 |
| lcuk | does mer even work on it now, i know there was noises | 13:57 |
| Macer | which openmoko device do you have? | 13:59 |
| pupnik | ok, flash is getting the boot | 13:59 |
| Macer | a dash or something? | 13:59 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, appear that the d-bus api is closed yet, at least I don't found anything in the repos | 13:59 |
| lcuk | then go to the fs | 14:00 |
| VDVsx | Macer, nop GTA-02, neo freerunner | 14:00 |
| Macer | how is the freerunner? | 14:01 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: know of a decent firmware where gps and such works on the freerunner? :P | 14:01 |
| * Macer stares at the debug boar | 14:02 | |
| Macer | board | 14:02 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, last time I used my device, everything worked, are you talking about the kernel image right ? | 14:02 |
| Stskeeps | not sure | 14:03 |
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| VDVsx | Macer, have some problems, and a big lack of decent software :P | 14:03 |
| Stskeeps | and it being armv4t just makes it more difficult :P | 14:04 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, you probably can used the FSO stack to test/debug the harware, is available in the debian repos | 14:06 |
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| pupnik | mytube needs sort-by-date | 14:07 |
| lcuk | i thought tubes were sorted by date anyway | 14:07 |
| lcuk | first in first out | 14:07 |
| rm_you | alright headed to WA, bbl :) | 14:08 |
| rm_you | see yall from another state ^_^ | 14:08 |
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| VDVsx | humm, a maemo developer competition on the DK weekend, should be fun :P | 14:21 |
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| lcuk | VDVsx, i keep pondering that | 14:29 |
| lcuk | is there a page | 14:30 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, go for it, the prize is a nxxx :P | 14:30 |
| lcuk | link | 14:31 |
| VDVsx | 1 sec, I'm joking about the prize | 14:31 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend#Schedule | 14:31 |
| VDVsx | at the end of the section | 14:32 |
| lcuk | :D nokia nxxx edition is endororsed by sasha grey | 14:32 |
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| lcuk | heh, since its "some hacker competition" | 14:33 |
| lcuk | should i push for "coolest new microapp in liqbase" ;) | 14:34 |
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| VDVsx | lcuk, heheh | 14:36 |
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| lcuk | jeremiah_hacking, i hope you dont have a facemask on | 14:50 |
| jeremiah_hacking | eh? | 14:53 |
| lcuk | if you are hacking you dont wanna look like jason | 14:53 |
| jeremiah_hacking | :P | 14:54 |
| jeremiah_hacking | I know what you did last summer! | 14:54 |
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| oDuda | hello all ! | 14:55 |
| lcuk | :O yeah, i wrote liqbase lol | 14:55 |
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| lcuk | hello oDuda \o | 14:56 |
| oDuda | somebody knows about cards life using as virtual memory on NIT ? | 14:56 |
| oDuda | hello lcuk ! hows ? | 14:56 |
| lcuk | oDuda, obviously lots of writing to a card isnt good (its not good for hard disks either..) | 14:57 |
| lcuk | but the price of them is such that as long as you have backups i wouldnt worry | 14:57 |
| oDuda | lcuk: sure... i worry on these cards during less than 1 one year... | 14:58 |
| oDuda | lcuk: is that the case ? | 14:59 |
| lcuk | oDuda, you should worry about all online media storage after 1 minute. the lifespan of anything is not 100% certain | 14:59 |
| lcuk | you can break a new harddrive within minutes | 15:00 |
| jeremiah_hacking | I wish lcuk wasn't right, but he is. | 15:00 |
| lcuk | or the same one could last for decades | 15:00 |
| jeremiah_hacking | backups are key | 15:00 |
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| oDuda | hahahaha this subject affects all the people.... | 15:00 |
| lcuk | jeremiah_hacking, fact of life. if you assume failure from day one you are protected (without going overboard) | 15:01 |
| jeremiah_hacking | Yes. | 15:01 |
| jeremiah_hacking | Indeed. | 15:01 |
| jeremiah_hacking | Frog. | 15:01 |
| * lcuk tries to be a defensive programmer :) | 15:01 | |
| oDuda | lcuk: thanks... if its will during or not.. i think that the virtual memory is needed to avoid against on time crashes too... | 15:02 |
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| lcuk | yes i agree | 15:02 |
| oDuda | with me ? | 15:02 |
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| lcuk | yes, put the vm on lol | 15:02 |
| oDuda | yeah just using the 128 that comes with N800 as VM... | 15:03 |
| oDuda | 128 mb card... | 15:03 |
| oDuda | to use 128mb is a bit little... so ... that will be a vm memory... hehe | 15:04 |
| lcuk | i didnt know the n800 came with anything, i know it had slots | 15:04 |
| timeless_mbp | they're teasers | 15:04 |
| * lcuk didnt think the n800 was a computer ;) | 15:04 | |
| timeless_mbp | the 770 came w/ 64mb | 15:04 |
| oDuda | it cames with a 128mb card... | 15:04 |
| lcuk | ahh enough to get you started | 15:04 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc the n800's was actually mini w/ a mini->sd adapter | 15:04 |
| oDuda | yes... but i put a new 4gb on it too... so... | 15:04 |
| timeless_mbp | but i could be wrong, it's been a while | 15:05 |
| derf | timeless_mbp: It wasn't. | 15:05 |
| timeless_mbp | 128mb full size? oh well | 15:05 |
| oDuda | no ! 128mb mini... | 15:05 |
| derf | I assumed it was old stock they couldn't sell any more. | 15:05 |
| * timeless_mbp looks between oDuda and derf ... | 15:06 | |
| * timeless_mbp is confused | 15:06 | |
| oDuda | ohhhhh at all pages that i saw... the 128mb card follow the product.. | 15:06 |
| lcuk | does it matter - its a small card easily replaced | 15:06 |
| lcuk | timeless, dont be confused, it puts you off working :P | 15:07 |
| timeless_mbp | that's irc ;-) | 15:07 |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 15:08 | |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.nokiausa.com/buy-online/accessories | 15:08 |
| timeless_mbp | hover over "Recommender" | 15:08 |
| timeless_mbp | is it a link? | 15:08 |
| oDuda | and about to setting the VM in N800... the max is 12X mb ? | 15:08 |
| timeless_mbp | the ui max might have been | 15:08 |
| timeless_mbp | in practice, linux and vm isn't such a wonderful combination | 15:09 |
| oDuda | yes... and hacking conf file is possible ? | 15:09 |
| oDuda | no ? | 15:09 |
| timeless_mbp | in general you'll find that it's really one app that needs all the vm | 15:09 |
| timeless_mbp | and in that case, you'll end up swapping to death | 15:09 |
| oDuda | death ? | 15:09 |
| timeless_mbp | the win is mostly in paging out all the other stupid apps that you aren't using | 15:09 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, you remember your stress page | 15:10 |
| timeless_mbp | 128mb of vm for the apps you aren't using, 128mb for your one app | 15:10 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: we were testing and talking about it this week | 15:10 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 15:10 |
| timeless_mbp | why do you ask? :) | 15:10 |
| timeless_mbp | the page is timeless :) | 15:10 |
| lcuk | heh cool, well ive been thinking about it as well and with something ive done i think it would be possible to browse it from tablet :) | 15:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | i tried using it to test the next Images app | 15:11 |
| timeless_mbp | every single step of that test failed *miserably* | 15:11 |
| lcuk | its similar in theory to the graffiti wall | 15:11 |
| timeless_mbp | (starting w/ just downloading the page) | 15:11 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 15:11 | |
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| lcuk | what the graffiti wall does (and my cells in general) is each cell holds the filename and only if that cell is requested to be rendered does the image get loaded | 15:12 |
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| * timeless_mbp nods | 15:12 | |
| lcuk | so when i show the wall only the first 12 sketches/images are loaded | 15:12 |
| oDuda | timeless_mbp: should i turn the VM off in N800 ? | 15:12 |
| lcuk | but then as scrolled they are loaded | 15:12 |
| lcuk | have you seen the playtest for liqbase yet | 15:12 |
| lcuk | the new new one | 15:12 |
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| lcuk | cos that has the effect visible on the maemo users tiled images wall | 15:13 |
| timeless_mbp | oDuda: i'm not saying that | 15:13 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm just saying it isn't a panacea | 15:13 |
| lcuk | oDuda, turn it on, forget about it | 15:13 |
| oDuda | i hate panaceas... | 15:13 |
| lcuk | if everything dies replace card | 15:13 |
| oDuda | too..hehe | 15:13 |
| lcuk | be happy, dont stress | 15:13 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm saying don't spend too much time thinking about it | 15:13 |
| oDuda | panaceas to me is useless too.. | 15:14 |
| timeless_mbp | i think w/ most things on the n800 the right answer is "turn it on to the max, and forget about it" | 15:14 |
| timeless_mbp | e.g. browser cache which ships w/ the smallest size | 15:14 |
| timeless_mbp | = stupid :) | 15:14 |
| thux | oDuda: i use swap and got better uptime less reboots | 15:14 |
| oDuda | you are right timeless | 15:14 |
| timeless_mbp | oDuda: mostly depressed | 15:14 |
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| lcuk | i leave my n800 idle and charging and get amazing uptime | 15:14 |
| *** pH5_ is now known as pH5 | 15:15 | |
| oDuda | hahahahahaha... idle without uptime... | 15:15 |
| oDuda | boot uptime... | 15:15 |
| oDuda | time to bootup... | 15:15 |
| oDuda | where is all ? | 15:16 |
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| lcuk | anyway timeless, ill carry on pondering stress :P | 15:16 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: some advice | 15:16 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. have you seen cooliris? | 15:16 |
| * lcuk puts it on a back burner | 15:16 | |
| timeless_mbp | 2. you don't want to load "just what you see" | 15:16 |
| timeless_mbp | you want to load "what you should see" and "what you are likely to want to see next" | 15:17 |
| lcuk | iris wont work well on stress though | 15:17 |
| oDuda | the society is like that... | 15:17 |
| lcuk | you have to wait for entire thing to load properly surely | 15:17 |
| lcuk | i agree about loading future items as well | 15:17 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: to be honest, i've never really used iris | 15:18 |
| lcuk | the old graffiti view used idle time to automatically load the next sketches | 15:18 |
| lcuk | the video looks right | 15:18 |
| lcuk | for pre-stored content it looks amazing | 15:18 |
| lcuk | but there has to be a large cost in loading those textures over the pcix or agp bus in the first place | 15:19 |
| lcuk | so yeah - you can have an entire super wall rotatable but it doesnt look like its got google earth type stitching etc | 15:19 |
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| oDuda | hey jegp i am jecp hehe... | 15:23 |
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| lcuk | bbl | 15:23 |
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| oDuda | hb lcuk | 15:24 |
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| * timeless_mbp finally installs iris | 15:28 | |
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| oDuda | iris is what ? | 15:30 |
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| oDuda | iris is for win ? | 15:34 |
| thux | http://www.iris.edu/seismon/ | 15:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://www.cooliris.com/ | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | it works on linux and osx | 15:40 |
| pupnik_ | browsing does seem much snappier with flashplugin removed | 15:40 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik_: which platform? | 15:40 |
| pupnik_ | maemo | 15:41 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik_: note that our browser has one of the simplest ui's for toggling flash out of the box of any browser i've met | 15:42 |
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| oDuda | thux: thank you... very cool aplication... run at n800 ? | 15:43 |
| lcuk | timeless, whenever this subject comes up, i wonder what the mileage of a generic clicktoview (like flashblock) would be that is binary standard plugin and doesnt depend on processing the entire js page searching for stuff the browser has already processed and identified as plugin | 15:44 |
| lcuk | ^reprocessing | 15:45 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 15:45 | |
| lcuk | heh | 15:45 |
| timeless_mbp | there have been a couple of plugin spy impls | 15:45 |
| timeless_mbp | they basically do passthrough service to real plugins | 15:45 |
| timeless_mbp | it's certainly technically possible to take one of those and have it do something /slightly/ more interesting | 15:45 |
| timeless_mbp | (i.e. click to play) | 15:45 |
| lcuk | yeah i did some deep investigation on firefox/flashblock and found a whole load of limitations and things which could be done quicker | 15:46 |
| timeless_mbp | personally, when i use firefox, i don't mind that noscript is blocking things for me | 15:46 |
| timeless_mbp | the perf doesn't matter | 15:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | you're looking at it from the wrong perspective | 15:46 |
| timeless_mbp | if you load a page and don't need th | 15:46 |
| timeless_mbp | err | 15:46 |
| timeless_mbp | imagine you visit http://stupid.example.com/ | 15:46 |
| timeless_mbp | it can take 10s to load the page w/o images | 15:47 |
| timeless_mbp | 10s to load the images | 15:47 |
| timeless_mbp | 10s to load a flash applet | 15:47 |
| timeless_mbp | now imagine that you don't need the images or flash applet | 15:47 |
| timeless_mbp | imagine it cost you 9s for a script to prevent you from getting the flash and images | 15:47 |
| timeless_mbp | 19s is still cheaper than 20s or 30s | 15:47 |
| lcuk | but 10s to get and process the page and add the clicker is even better than 19s | 15:48 |
| lcuk | and that works generically no matter what page size | 15:48 |
| lcuk | and for all media types | 15:48 |
| lcuk | that req a plugin | 15:48 |
| lcuk | also - for that extra 9 seconds the flash might actually be running | 15:49 |
| lcuk | (as it does using flashblock on firefox) | 15:49 |
| * timeless_mbp puzzles | 15:50 | |
| timeless_mbp | that's not my experience w/ noscript | 15:50 |
| * timeless_mbp doesn't use flashblock | 15:50 | |
| lcuk | flashblock runs AFTER the page has been loaded, the flash is instentiated and runs and only gets replaced after | 15:50 |
| timeless_mbp | w/ noscript, the flash apps afaict are never instantiated until i click on them, not even downloaded | 15:50 |
| lcuk | yeah maybe | 15:50 |
| timeless_mbp | try switching | 15:50 |
| lcuk | most sites i visit have js tho and its useful | 15:51 |
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| lcuk | i dont want to have to unblock each individually | 15:51 |
| * timeless_mbp tries to kill safari | 15:51 | |
| timeless_mbp | noscript can default to letting the main site's js run | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | and you typically whitelist domains | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | really, give it a try | 15:52 |
| lcuk | cool, ill give it a try then | 15:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | hey, i was productive at work today! | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not sure why wally from dilbert suddenly appeared in front of my eyes | 16:16 |
| RST38h | Does he have any messages for you? | 16:17 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-04-09/ | 16:18 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 16:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | personally, i prefer http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-04-05/ | 16:21 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 16:22 |
| timeless_mbp | this is of course nice: http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-04-19/ | 16:25 |
| timeless_mbp | but i haven't fought him in a while | 16:25 |
| timeless_mbp | http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-04-23/ | 16:26 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: you'd want to see the next one, and wonder if that applies to nokia cameras :P | 16:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm going to pretend that on the advice of my lawyer i neither look at nor comment on any such item | 16:28 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 16:28 |
| suihkulokki | I'm so happy there is no culture of rebates in the shops in northern europe :P | 16:29 |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: they're called expense reports | 16:29 |
| timeless_mbp | and i think at this point i've failed to collect between 2,000 and 5,000 EUR | 16:29 |
| timeless_mbp | http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-04-28/ | 16:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-03/ | 16:31 |
| timeless_mbp | http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-08/ | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | and there went timeless_mbp's productivity ;) | 16:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | yeah well... http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-10/ | 16:34 |
| timeless_mbp | i only have 20 patches to put into bugs (must file first) | 16:34 |
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| Stskeeps | heh.. i think my idle time in cph will be used to file bugs towards maemo really - we have started cleaning up our act so we can now see where our fixes are :P | 16:36 |
| timeless_mbp | cph? | 16:37 |
| timeless_mbp | speaking of bugs | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, the danish developer weekend? :P | 16:37 |
| timeless_mbp | can you file a bug for me? | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | possibly | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | are you banned from bugtracker by now? ;) | 16:37 |
| timeless_mbp | my results aren't improving w/ time | 16:37 |
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| andrewfblack | hello | 16:47 |
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| Stskeeps | lo andrewfblack | 16:47 |
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| andrewfblack | just released some new screenshots of minimalist theme | 16:53 |
| RST38h | andrew: itt? | 16:56 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: I played around with some default values in QAbstractScrollArea last night | 16:57 |
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| RST38h | andrew: do make menu bar smaller | 16:57 |
| RST38h | andrew: the same size as the Welcome bar, with the same font, different background color so that it stands out | 16:57 |
| RST38h | andrew: lines separating categories are ugly, why not use the same white bars as used in the stats at the bototm of the same screenshot? | 16:58 |
| lbt | fiferboy: any suggestions? | 16:59 |
| RST38h | Edit|Quote|Quick Reply should be in much smaller font | 16:59 |
| RST38h | There is no need for word "Reply" under "Testing" | 16:59 |
| fiferboy | lbt: VMAX at 500 and DECEL_PC at 93 work REALLY nicely for me. | 16:59 |
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| fiferboy | I also tried SENSITIVITY at 6 (like in h-p-a) but it was too sensitive. 20 seems good to me. | 17:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | fwiw, i just tested cooliris on stress | 17:07 |
| timeless_mbp | it can't keep up for an initial pan :( | 17:08 |
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| lbt | fiferboy: OK... I'll change them here ... thanks | 17:12 |
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| fiferboy | No problem. | 17:12 |
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| fiferboy | I was just trying out the finger scrolling withint scratchbox, and the deceleration looks AMAZING when the system is fast enough for it. | 17:12 |
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| fiferboy | It looks nice enough on the tablet, but you can tell (at least with my application) that it is struggling a bit | 17:13 |
| pupnik | any tricks to get mplayer to handle toutube HD video? | 17:13 |
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| Macer | hm. watching a special on chernobyl | 17:21 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: I just added some quick code to theme all scrollbars (for fingerscroll areas) like Fremantle | 17:29 |
| lbt | ooh | 17:29 |
| lbt | mail me a patch? | 17:30 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Will do. We could either have it on all the time (ie for Diablo as well) or put some Frementle IFDEFs around it. | 17:30 |
| lbt | how about basing it on a dynamic property | 17:31 |
| lbt | and defaulting on/off based o ifdefs | 17:31 |
| fiferboy | lbt: That sounds good. I would like to use it in birdlist, so I could turn it on. Works for me. | 17:32 |
| fiferboy | I notice you set a "FingerScrollable" property, so we could do it like that. | 17:33 |
| lbt | yep | 17:33 |
| fiferboy | Okay, I will change my code to use that before I send it off | 17:34 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: http://jrioni.blogspot.com/ | 17:44 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: Your "FingerScrollable" property just works on a widget-by-widget basis, right? | 17:50 |
| fiferboy | How do I get a global property for the entire application? | 17:50 |
| lbt | qApp ? | 17:52 |
| fiferboy | Awesome. | 17:52 |
| lbt | :D | 17:52 |
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| andrewfblack | RST38h: to make you and qgil happy I lowered the font size of reply links and main menu links | 17:57 |
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| andrewfblack | anyone go any input for minimalist theme? | 18:00 |
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| lbt | it's too dark? | 18:01 |
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| andrewfblack | did you look at new screenshots? | 18:02 |
| jeremiah_hacking | andrewfblack: I will take a look, where is the URL again? | 18:02 |
| * lbt shouldn't poke the lions.... | 18:02 | |
| jeremiah_hacking | I like minimal | 18:02 |
| andrewfblack | will have to look at screenshots on this posthttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=289040#post289040 | 18:02 |
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| jeremiah_hacking | andrewfblack: I like it. I will use it. | 18:03 |
| lbt | looks good to me... qgil is right about the Edit/Quote text | 18:03 |
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| jeremiah_hacking | Thanks for doing all that work. | 18:04 |
| andrewfblack | jeremiah_hacking: no complaints at all? | 18:04 |
| andrewfblack | lbt: Yeah I lowered them | 18:04 |
| jeremiah_hacking | andrewfblack: None. Not a single one. | 18:05 |
| jeremiah_hacking | andrewfblack: Well, will it make me sexier? | 18:05 |
| jeremiah_hacking | If not then I have to complain. | 18:05 |
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| andrewfblack | lol | 18:08 |
| andrewfblack | jeremiah_hacking: minimalist themes always make you sexier | 18:08 |
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| lcuk | jeremiah_hacking, you STILL hacking? :D | 18:17 |
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| * timeless_mbp kinda defeats a bug | 18:21 | |
| timeless_mbp | today was an officially productive day at work | 18:21 |
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| jeremiah_hacking | lcuk: About to stop. :P | 18:27 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: Do you have to register properties somewhere? | 18:31 |
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| fiferboy | Arg, I think I know my problem. I am not building my program against the modfied library version. | 18:34 |
| lopz | hola | 18:35 |
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| qgil | hi there is Luke Dashjr or Stskeeps around=? | 18:40 |
| luke-jr | … | 18:40 |
| qgil | hi, about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4380 | 18:41 |
| qgil | is Mer able to circunvent the fact that the GPS driver expects a "user" user? | 18:41 |
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| luke-jr | qgil: gpsdriver aborts when getpwnam fails | 18:43 |
| qgil | and can't there be a "user" user created in the system to make that driver happy? luke-jr ? | 18:44 |
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| luke-jr | shrug. my goal is to replace gpsdriver with something open. these problems are just the method I am focusing on at the moment before more complex methods. | 18:45 |
| qgil | luke-jr: I guess you see the technical difficulties of playing with such driver... but it looks like you are overseeing that complications of opening it up | 18:46 |
| luke-jr | is it that complex if TI IPR is stripped out? | 18:46 |
| qgil | luke-jr: how do you strip IPR out? Is not that simple. | 18:47 |
| luke-jr | if it's TI IPR, then presumably it preexists the Nokia code around it and can be identified easily? | 18:47 |
| luke-jr | or is this more of a NDA-type issue? | 18:48 |
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| Jaffa | qgil: I'm not such I can speak for Stskeeps or others, but the intention of h-a-m patches I submitted was to remove Maemo-isms like "user" from code running on Mer, as the first thing it does - as an OS - is ask what user you want to create; and that the packages are intended to run on relatively arbitrary systems | 18:48 |
| Jaffa | qgil: It would seem pretty horrible to have a *standard* "user" user, but perhaps a "gpsdriver-compat" package (which is open) could add the `user' account if a) gpsdriver can't be replaced; b) gpsdriver can't be changed to be programmed more flexibly or c) something else I've just forgotten | 18:49 |
| qgil | Jaffa: and I understand that, but hopefully it is understandable that being able to user the Maemo binaries 'as is' in unofficial releases is already good enough | 18:49 |
| * Jaffa nods | 18:50 | |
| lcuk | qgil quick question, in the bug report you mention that inside the gps driver there is code for uploading this info the nokias servers? do we have any documentation on when this occurs or how to disable it? | 18:50 |
| Jaffa | Might it be worth trying to get a Nokia policy change on future developments to not assume things like /home/user | 18:50 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: that's is supl-daemon I think | 18:50 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Have you tested your FingerScrollable dynamic property? | 18:51 |
| lbt | no | 18:51 |
| lcuk | ok, just stuck out, the raw driver listens and decodes gps signals, it shouldnt ever need to talk ot or know about anything else | 18:51 |
| fiferboy | I don't see where anything is connected to when an application changes the property. | 18:51 |
| qgil | Jaffa: do you mind making a enhancement request, or pointing me to any already filed? | 18:51 |
| luke-jr | though you do raise an interesting point, lcuk | 18:51 |
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| luke-jr | another reason not to have proprietary GPS driver, is to ensure our own personal privacy | 18:52 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Do we need to use QDynamicPropertyChangeEvent? | 18:52 |
| lbt | fiferboy: it's not an api... more a status flag | 18:52 |
| fiferboy | Ah, mine needs to be something that is changed programatically, I think. | 18:52 |
| qgil | er... that connection actually happens with the A-GPS and you are accepting the terms in that dialog asking for permissions to connect etc etc | 18:52 |
| Jaffa | qgil: I'll try and have a look tonight for one, and raise one if there isn't one | 18:52 |
| lcuk | ahh ok qgil :) so its in agps and not in the gps driver itself | 18:53 |
| * lcuk hasnt installed agps | 18:53 | |
| luke-jr | qgil: is it practical to get a quick low-level library to the GPS? | 18:53 |
| qgil | luke-jr: I don't understand your question, sorry | 18:53 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Or I can define a Q_PROPERTY for it to be read and set | 18:54 |
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| luke-jr | qgil: gpsdriver basically "converts" ttyS0 data to NMEA data; I'm assuming the NMEA output generation is not TI IPR, and the TI IPR is the ttyS0 end | 18:55 |
| luke-jr | qgil: if Nokia can make a simple C library to take the ttyS0 end, we could write the other side from scratch | 18:55 |
| qgil | luke-jr: I don't know the technical details but the basic thing is: that driver will stay as it is because all our development is focused on a completely different location architecture | 18:55 |
| luke-jr | (ideally giving the library its ttyS0 path/pointer) | 18:56 |
| Jaffa | luke-jr: If Nokia were doing that, they could put the effort into opening the non-TI NMEA-generation bit - since it'd have to be written anyway | 18:56 |
| Jaffa | Which, as qgil says, ain't gonna happen | 18:56 |
| luke-jr | qgil: how about supporting Nokia's current hardware? | 18:56 |
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| qgil | luke-jr: I have nothing to add to all that has been said about the support to N810 customers | 18:57 |
| lcuk | they are, it is supported and works :D todd on gps tells us where traffic circles are | 18:58 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: it "works" with an unmaintained Maemo version | 18:58 |
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| lcuk | luke-jr, expecting nokia to support every OS out there is impractical | 18:59 |
| * Jaffa also wonders (because this is better than doing anything else) about whether, if this is a growing problem (see also 3D drivers), the community could realistically find (& fund?) someone to work on behalf of Nokia to do the necessary work to split things up into reusable binary blobs. | 18:59 | |
| lcuk | should they supply windows drivers? | 18:59 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: I'm not expecting them to, just expecting some kind of low-level library so *we* can write support ourselves | 18:59 |
| Jaffa | But that assumes the work on behalf of Nokia Legal is of no cost/budget to Maemo Software | 18:59 |
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| qgil | there is this idea of getting a community developer sign an NDA and etc etc | 19:00 |
| qgil | well, in practice things don't work like this | 19:00 |
| qgil | NDAs are useful when the one who signs it can respond to liabilities | 19:00 |
| Jaffa | qgil: What're the biggest obstacles? Drain on dev. team to support new developer? | 19:00 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, we can try to setup community bounties for that propose | 19:00 |
| qgil | if you are a developer of a Fortune500 company you won't have much trouble getting offers to sign an NDA | 19:01 |
| VDVsx | eerr^^ Jaffa | 19:01 |
| qgil | if you are a community developer is clear that in case of trouble you basically are no liable | 19:01 |
| Jaffa | qgil: Ah, so an individual (even one in a company capacity?) doesn't have enough leverage to risk the leak? | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | .. okay, what conversation did i just stumble into? | 19:02 |
| qgil | TI sues you Jaffa - so what? | 19:02 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: gpsdriver | 19:02 |
| luke-jr | hmm | 19:03 |
| Jaffa | qgil: Why, fundamentally, is a Nokia employee more trustworthy though? Losing one's job (if one wants to be malicious) isn't necessarily the end of the world | 19:03 |
| luke-jr | qgil: so we need to find a CEO willing to back this? ;) | 19:03 |
| lardman | the other option is to simply write the code, present it to Nokia as a fait accompli. and ask them to sign it off | 19:03 |
| qgil | Now Maemo SW makes some kind of NDA agreement with Jaffa but then he goes and accidentally or not published the whole source code somewhere | 19:03 |
| qgil | TI sues Jaffa? No, of course. | 19:03 |
| qgil | and Nokia sues Jaffa? No of course. | 19:03 |
| luke-jr | lardman: um, if we write the code w/o any help from Nokia, then why present it to them at all? | 19:03 |
| Jaffa | No, TI sues Nokia. That's where the money is. | 19:03 |
| lardman | luke-jr: to prevent from being sued by anyone | 19:04 |
| Jaffa | Just like they would if a Maemo Software employee did the same. | 19:04 |
| luke-jr | lardman: as Quim is mentioning, individuals have no reason to fear being sued :p | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: my personal view is that gpsdriver is fine closed, we can make a wrapper to fix the user problem (simply hijacking the getpwnam call), it's not perfect and a simple GPSDRIVER_USER environment variable patch to gpsdriver (still closed) would also be most welcome | 19:04 |
| lardman | well you could hire someone as a contractor, assuming you trust them, and pay them an arbitrary $1 for their work | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr doesn't share my view but i think more in direction of practicality | 19:05 |
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| lcuk | +1 sts :) | 19:05 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: agreed there | 19:05 |
| luke-jr | lardman: still doesn't create liability | 19:05 |
| qgil | Jaffa: companies work trusting each other - and companies trust their employees (even if they make them sign some papers just in case) | 19:05 |
| lcuk | middle ground path of least resistance works best for all concerned :) | 19:05 |
| lardman | luke-jr: yes it does, being employed by the company in question | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | a little aid to very small patches to closed source packages would always be welcome, if a wrapper is not trivial | 19:05 |
| luke-jr | lardman: for $1, no loss if you lose that job | 19:05 |
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| * Jaffa wonders how wonderfully thorough Nokia's recruitment process must be ;-) | 19:06 | |
| lardman | luke-jr: the point is not the job, but the access and the fact that being a member of a large company you're more likely to be offered the NDA to sign | 19:06 |
| Jaffa | lardman: I think qgil's point is that *Nokia* have everything to lose by taking the liability, and not the person signing the NDA | 19:06 |
| luke-jr | lardman: yes, but Nokia isn't going to want to accept that liability | 19:07 |
| qgil | Jaffa: well, you go through some rounds - I have heard worse horror stories from very popular companies | 19:07 |
| lardman | Jaffa: as I said, depends if you trust the person | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: btw, thanks for telling me which syscall i have to wrap :P | 19:07 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: -.- | 19:07 |
| qgil | Jaffa: and this is why Nokia won't do anything like signing an NDA with a community developer, no matter how many karma points ;) | 19:07 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Indeed. I can see why Nokia (as a corporation) would make the distinction, even though I think we have good metrics - and evidence - of trustiness of particular people | 19:07 |
| Jaffa | And so, at a practical level, the distinction is probably arbitrary (but, as I say, understandable to my corporate-addled mind) | 19:08 |
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| Stskeeps | on the other hand, won't most professional community developers be incorporated? :P | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | they have a tendancy to group together | 19:09 |
| qgil | you need to apply first :) | 19:09 |
| qgil | many community developers are now professionals working with Nokia, either as employees or external companies | 19:10 |
| luke-jr | so which of these community developers are working with Nokia as an external company? | 19:10 |
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| luke-jr | presumably they could solve this? | 19:10 |
| qgil | anyway, I hope the point about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4380 is clear, even if you don't agree with the resolution | 19:10 |
| VDVsx | qgil, but a lot of them are, just naming indt and igalia for starters :P | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: from mer POV i agree - there might eventually be a need for simple patches to fix specific problems on some packages, but that's a totally different discussion | 19:11 |
| qgil | luke-jr: where do you think many of these small companies come from http://wiki.maemo.org/Companies_in_Maemo_development | 19:11 |
| lardman | qgil: so pvr will have to be a diy job then...? | 19:11 |
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| qgil | lardman no, we are still discussing with TI | 19:12 |
| lardman | for them to do the work though? | 19:12 |
| qgil | and they are willing to find a solution so that code can go out with a good legal relationship with the Kernel license | 19:12 |
| lardman | ah ok | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | that sounds like a huge leap forward :) | 19:12 |
| luke-jr | qgil: can't discuss GPS with TI? :/ | 19:13 |
| luke-jr | from what I hear, it's an obsolete model of theirs | 19:13 |
| luke-jr | maybe they'll just let it go? | 19:13 |
| qgil | ask them | 19:13 |
| qgil | first things first and the pvr was the first thing that was asked | 19:13 |
| luke-jr | Nokia releases gpsdriver code if we get clearance from TI? | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: much looking forward to hearing results of those talks, - even a open source kernel driver will be a big leap forward | 19:14 |
| qgil | I'm actually amazed about the amount of time and attention both companies have put in the acceleration drivers | 19:14 |
| lardman | no, Ti would probably have to release you the specs and you write your own | 19:14 |
| lardman | luke-jr: the other problem with gpsdriver is the supl stuff | 19:15 |
| luke-jr | lardman: libsupld is BSD-licensed anyway | 19:15 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, probably a legal bug | 19:16 |
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| * Stskeeps continues making slides for copenhagen | 19:17 | |
| * lardman continues writing a report | 19:18 | |
| lardman | and dreaming dreams of PowerVR goodness | 19:18 |
| * Stskeeps wonders how gtk doc building can take so long time | 19:19 | |
| qgil | lardman & other "accelerated" developers, if in the Maemo Summit you find some Kimmo Nikkanen | 19:19 |
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| qgil | please buy him a beer because he is being your secret godfather | 19:19 |
| lardman | ok, will do :) | 19:19 |
| qgil | he is an expert on that area, and he really cares about the community being able to experiment | 19:19 |
| lardman | can we have a mugshot? :) | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | we should make some location based game on "find the nokia employee and drink with him" | 19:21 |
| lardman | Nokia employee bingo? | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | got to get them all ;) | 19:21 |
| lardman | yep | 19:22 |
| lardman | or some % | 19:22 |
| qgil | now I realize he has a web page: http://koti.mbnet.fi/knikkane/ | 19:22 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, nokiamon :P | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: .. almost sounds like a fun game to play :> | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: it's unreasonable to demand nokia provide Windows-ARM drivers for their tablets? | 19:24 |
| timeless_mbp | darn | 19:24 |
| * timeless_mbp won't buy another one | 19:24 | |
| lardman | qgil: I'll have to email him to put up his picture :) I wonder if the thought of all of us tracking him down to buy him beer will make him more or less likely to do so :D | 19:24 |
| timeless_mbp | oh you mentioned that | 19:25 |
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| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: I'm already planning to go with some kind of SmartQ next time around. | 19:26 |
| luke-jr | at least their stuff is open | 19:26 |
| * qgil goes elsewhere | 19:27 | |
| qgil | bye | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | cya :) | 19:27 |
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| Stskeeps | next up on #maemo: luke-jr complaining of the closed source JPEG accelerator driver | 19:27 |
| lardman | cheers qgil, assuming you see the logs to read this message :) | 19:28 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: ah, well that's open actually | 19:28 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: think it'll get to the infliential people? :p | 19:28 |
| lardman | yes, it will really annoy them | 19:28 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: I'm pretty happy about the SmartQ SoC specs being 100% open | 19:28 |
| lardman | but hopefully it won't affect how they deal with the rest of the community | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: you didn't notice the "CONFIDENTIAL" part of that pdf? | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:28 |
| luke-jr | lardman: hey, it was their own decisions that led to that comment | 19:28 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: that doesn't make it apply as a NDA | 19:29 |
| lardman | indeed, but there are reasons for the decisions | 19:29 |
| Corsac | luke-jr: what about the touchbook, when it starts being real? :) | 19:29 |
| * Stskeeps 'd get a touchbook. | 19:30 | |
| luke-jr | well, here's hoping it makes them wake up and realize there's no real middle ground if they want a faithful market | 19:30 |
| luke-jr | Corsac: wtf is that? | 19:30 |
| Corsac | ! | 19:30 |
| Corsac | http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/ | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | how can you not know what a touchbook is | 19:30 |
| lardman | luke-jr: no, you're wrong there. We went through all of this arguing business back when we first asked for the pvr driver | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | it's practically a portable beagleboard | 19:31 |
| * Corsac 's brother in law will work at AI starting next year | 19:31 | |
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| luke-jr | Stskeeps: it's not in my field of interest? | 19:31 |
| luke-jr | looks too big | 19:31 |
| lardman | Corsac: I'd never heard of it, looks cool though | 19:31 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: maybe my wife will want one | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: http://gizmodo.com/5162584/first-hands-on-touch-book-is-a-part+netbook-part+tablet | 19:32 |
| Corsac | yeah, it's more netbook sized than NIT sized | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | still, 10-12 hours of battery life | 19:32 |
| lardman | I still want something inbetween, umid or psion 5 sized | 19:33 |
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| Corsac | I just love the fridge stuff | 19:34 |
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| luke-jr | I want to max out my pocket space :p | 19:38 |
| luke-jr | maybe fold out into a dual-display | 19:39 |
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| GAN800 | Ah, absolutism is fun. | 19:41 |
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| lardman | Evangelism | 19:42 |
| lardman | but yeah | 19:42 |
| lardman | how goes it anyway General? | 19:43 |
| minra | dosbox | 19:43 |
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| StsN800 | lo GeneralAntilles | 19:43 |
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| GAN800 | Work, work, work | 19:47 |
| GAN800 | lardman, '100% open or nobody will ever buy' ;) | 19:47 |
| lardman | I am! | 19:47 |
| lardman | yeah, I can't quite get that attitude | 19:47 |
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| GAN800 | lardman, especially since it has zero basis in reality. ;) | 20:06 |
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| yerga | can't connect to the garage svn... | 20:08 |
| yerga | someone can confirm it? | 20:08 |
| yerga | the git server works great though | 20:08 |
| * Stskeeps yawns | 20:09 | |
| lardman | GAN800: yeah, feels like the "discussions" from back when we were campaigning for the PowerVR driver doens't it :) | 20:10 |
| lardman | GAN800: did you see qgil's comments re. Ti & ImgTech being interested in getting a workable driver available | 20:10 |
| lardman | ? | 20:10 |
| GAN800 | lardman, didn't you hear? Communities are cyclical. | 20:10 |
| lardman | I must just have a very long wavelength | 20:11 |
| lardman | or low velocity | 20:11 |
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| Stskeeps | at least we didn't have "Let's get Windows CE working!" | 20:12 |
| lardman | we used to have that though :) | 20:12 |
| lcuk | fuck CE< i want windows 7 on my hardware | 20:12 |
| lardman | and the questions about geting WINE working :D | 20:12 |
| lardman | lcuk: tut tut tut, there are young viewers at this time of night | 20:13 |
| lcuk | heh simon we make extensive use of wine already, and beer | 20:13 |
| lardman | don't mention the Windows 7 word | 20:13 |
| lcuk | flip CE< then even - apologies | 20:13 |
| * lardman is drinking a beer too :) | 20:13 | |
| lcuk | ohh yeah a beer would be good at this point | 20:13 |
| lcuk | i dont think the shop will serve jake yet tho | 20:14 |
| lardman | why not give him your drivers licence? He could turn up in a car to buy the beers | 20:14 |
| GAN800 | lardman, yeah, saw it. | 20:15 |
| lardman | he'd probably get in more trouble with the cops for buying beer than driving the car anyway :p | 20:15 |
| lcuk | luke came home with a random driving license yesterday actually | 20:15 |
| lardman | lol | 20:15 |
| lardman | someone bought a laminator....? | 20:15 |
| lcuk | heh no a proper one he found it on the street, gonna post it off to the address | 20:16 |
| lardman | GAN800: and I was just getting stuck into the asm | 20:16 |
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| sanjay6976 | hi | 20:16 |
| Meizirkki | hi sanjay6976 | 20:16 |
| Meizirkki | Any medibox expert here? | 20:16 |
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| Meizirkki | i cannot figure out why MediaBox plays everything nicely thru Gstreamer on my Ubuntu-box, but on n810 it is unable to use the output | 20:17 |
| Meizirkki | (in Mer n8x0) | 20:17 |
| lardman | what are you playing? | 20:18 |
| lardman | GStreamer components missing? | 20:18 |
| Meizirkki | mp3 | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: did you enable xine output? | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 20:18 |
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| Meizirkki | Stskeeps, Xine output works somehow too | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | that's probably ubuntu related, you have to dl a codec from multiverse | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | afaik | 20:18 |
| LiraNuna | http://www.crn.com/mobile/217600442 < "market that does not exist" !? | 20:18 |
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| Meizirkki | Stskeeps, i have all the codecs, but mediabox doesn't recognise the output | 20:19 |
| Meizirkki | only selectable is Xine | 20:19 |
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| sanjay6976 | after installing maemo 4.1.2 if i run af-sb-init in DIABLO_ARMEL i get the error " /home/maemouser/.osso/current-gtk-key-theme:1: Unable to find include file: "keybindings.rc"" | 20:22 |
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| sanjay6976 | the problem is that i am not able to lanch emulator gui from ARMEL | 20:26 |
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| sanjay6976 | any help | 20:28 |
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| lardman | sanjay6976: iirc it's not possible to launch the GUI from the ARMEL target | 20:34 |
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| lardman | if you want to do GUI programming you must target X86 and try there, or run it on-device | 20:35 |
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| luke-jr | GAN800: I didn't so "or nobody will buy", but when you're targetting the *open source* community with your product, one of the main factors to focus on is keeping things *open source* | 20:36 |
| luke-jr | and if they're targetting *general purpose* users, they sure did a crappy job of the PIM software | 20:36 |
| luke-jr | so in the end, they're not really satisfying *either* market | 20:37 |
| sanjay6976 | lardman:thanks is there any way i can achive it | 20:37 |
| luke-jr | which has got to be worse than picking one and satisfying that market | 20:37 |
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| VDVsx | lardman, humm, is this also valid for Diablo ?, I thought it is only a fremantle issue | 20:40 |
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| VDVsx | nahh, the emulated GUI works fine in my armel target (Diablo) | 20:43 |
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| GAN800 | luke-jr, things aint that black and white | 20:45 |
| GAN800 | and you're not being realistic about the market. | 20:46 |
| sanjay6976 | VDVsx: is it maemo 4.1.2? | 20:47 |
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| sanjay6976 | VDVsx: how did u do that? | 20:48 |
| VDVsx | sanjay6976, nop, is 4.1, a old installation | 20:48 |
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| VDVsx | sanjay6976, did you installed the entire sdk runtime ? | 20:49 |
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| lardman | VDVsx: ah, ok | 20:51 |
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| VDVsx | sanjay6976, try to install the runtime + dev packages (fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-dev) | 20:51 |
| sanjay6976 | VDVsx:i did maemo-sdk-dev | 20:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: i think we're very much aware of our failings | 20:53 |
| timeless_mbp | which isn't to say that some people shouldn't be reminded of them | 20:53 |
| RST38h | moo all | 20:53 |
| timeless_mbp | although in this case, you should complain to Ari | 20:53 |
| timeless_mbp | Quim can't really do much | 20:54 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 20:54 | |
| timeless_mbp | how many software updates did you get to your Original Nintendo Entertainment System ? | 20:55 |
| timeless_mbp | for the record, I got <ZERO> | 20:55 |
| timeless_mbp | but I was quite happy with it and used it for many years | 20:55 |
| RST38h | Original NES had no builtin firmware. | 20:55 |
| Myrtti | I still used mine two years ago :-( | 20:55 |
| RST38h | So this point does not apply to NES. | 20:56 |
| VDVsx | sanjay6976, can you pastebin the entire output of the af-sb-init command ? | 20:56 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: It is time to move on to iNES :) | 20:56 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: I've moved to NDS | 20:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: i'm drawing a weak parallel | 20:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | there were components in the nintendo | 20:57 |
| timeless_mbp | it was theoretically possible for some of those components to break | 20:57 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: not a bad idea | 20:57 |
| timeless_mbp | if they broke and you were in warranty, you could get nintendo to replace them | 20:57 |
| timeless_mbp | nintendo never promised to give you schematics, and to my knowledge there were no user serviceable parts | 20:58 |
| RST38h | How is it related to software? Especially, how is it related to software in NIT firmware that has been broken from the moment it has been shipped to users? | 20:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'm not sure about your 770, as to whether Nokia promised hardware schematics | 20:58 |
| timeless_mbp | but... walk slowly | 20:58 |
| * timeless_mbp has to find other devices | 20:58 | |
| RST38h | Yea, go search for other examples. | 20:59 |
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| sanjay6976 | VDVsx:[sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] > af-sb-init.sh start Note: For remote X connections DISPLAY should contain hostname! Sample files present. Starting DBUS system bus Starting D-BUS session bus daemon Starting Maemo Launcher: maemo-launcher. defender: died my parent is not who he claims to be maemo-launcher: warning rising the oom shield for pid=26027 status=2816 | 20:59 |
| * timeless_mbp hasn't really purchased many items | 20:59 | |
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| RST38h | (although it will be somewhat of a problem under given preconditions) | 20:59 |
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| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: who is Ari? | 21:00 |
| Myrtti | Ari Jaaksi I presume | 21:00 |
| timeless_mbp | http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/ | 21:00 |
| RST38h | (like you may have to use WinCE devices as an example and THAT would look really desperate) | 21:00 |
| sanjay6976 | VDVsx:Unable to find include file: "keybindings.rc" it gives | 21:00 |
| timeless_mbp | i was hoping someone would spell his name and save me the effort | 21:00 |
| timeless_mbp | "it's all his fault" | 21:01 |
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| Myrtti | he's really a nice guy though | 21:01 |
| timeless_mbp | (and he's welcome to claim any success he can find) | 21:01 |
| VDVsx | sanjay6976, yah, paste the output here: http://pastebin.ca/ and send me the link | 21:01 |
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| sanjay6976 | VDVsx:i have pasted at http://pastebin.ca/1430131 | 21:04 |
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| * timeless_mbp ponders | 21:06 | |
| timeless_mbp | anyone here happen to have purchased a Newton? | 21:06 |
| timeless_mbp | I'd rather not point to my iPod touch (for which i've had to pay for bug fixes and new features) | 21:06 |
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| VDVsx | sanjay6976, try to check this: http://pastebin.ca/1430139 | 21:12 |
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| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 21:13 | |
| timeless_mbp | it's really not worth explaining | 21:13 |
| timeless_mbp | Nintendo has two groups, a hardware group which sells devices | 21:14 |
| timeless_mbp | and a software group which makes and sells games | 21:14 |
| timeless_mbp | Nokia is a hardware company, it makes and sells hardware | 21:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | the hardware happens to include software | 21:14 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia has virtually no experience in other markets | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | it'll take years for us to learn how to get some other mix | 21:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | btw, i finally used the transflexive display of my n810, when i was in Mountain View | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | and I'm happy to report that it really works! | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 21:15 |
| luke-jr | meaning? | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | in other news, my n81 8GB failed that test miserably | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | i could use my n810 in the sun while i was outside | 21:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | about a week later i finally discovered my n81's display was dimmed to nearly the lowest possible setting, which explains why i couldn't use it outside, but ... | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | it took me a week to discover that :) | 21:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | a week which i spent cursing the phone ;) | 21:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: for reference, the n800 does not work outside in the sun | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | (nor did the 770 for that matter) | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | one of the major improvements the n810 had (and the only one that interested me) was the display technology | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | but when people asked us about it as the product was announced, all I could say at the time was "it's winter here in helsinki, ask me in a few months when the sun comes out" | 21:19 |
| timeless_mbp | on this trip, someone forced me to remove the original plastic film that you're supposed to remove when you get your device | 21:19 |
| timeless_mbp | (which i think means the sheet lasted about 2 years) | 21:19 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: i have a good screenprotector that makes it decently viewable in the sun for n800 :P | 21:20 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: I always leave that on as a screen protecter | 21:20 |
| luke-jr | though mine didn't come with one :/ | 21:20 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: i always try to, and have been relatively good at keeping them that way | 21:20 |
| timeless_mbp | my e61i still had its when the screen died | 21:20 |
| timeless_mbp | i took off my n81's when i was trying to figure out why the screen didn't work in the sun :( | 21:21 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders how to rename a google map | 21:22 | |
| sanjay6976 | VDVsx:what will be the DISPLAY variable for xephr for armel | 21:22 |
| timeless_mbp | sanjay6976: xephyr typically runs on :2 | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | but when you're running xephyr itself, you typically need DISPLAY set to the normal Xserver (:0) | 21:23 |
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| sanjay6976 | i am trying to launch maemo emulator from armel i am getting the errori given in the link http://pastebin.ca/1430154 with display=:2 | 21:28 |
| timeless_mbp | so, env vars are um... not quite case insensitive | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | did you run xephyr? | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | it's basically: | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | DISPLAY=:0 | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | start-xephyr.sh | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | DISPLAY=:2 | 21:30 |
| timeless_mbp | start-maemo-however.sh | 21:30 |
| timeless_mbp | xephyr of course should be run from outside scratchbox | 21:30 |
| timeless_mbp | and maemo would be inside | 21:30 |
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| * timeless_mbp loves the unsupported syscall's | 21:30 | |
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| sanjay6976 | i feel there is some error in xephyr | 21:37 |
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| sanjay6976 | while launchin xephyr it gives "Extended Input Devices not yet supported. Impelement it at line 625 in kinput.c" | 21:40 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN800: you ran Mer on the dell mini 9? | 21:44 |
| sanjay6976 | any help | 21:45 |
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| RST38h | sanjay: Doesn't it tell you directly what to do? | 21:51 |
| RST38h | kinput.c, line 625 =) | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | sanjay6976: ubuntu 9.04? | 21:52 |
| sanjay6976 | no fedora | 21:52 |
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| sanjay6976 | RST38h:what i have to implement | 21:53 |
| sanjay6976 | not getting it | 21:53 |
| VDVsx | sanjay6976, did you followed the instruction that I sent ? | 21:55 |
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| VDVsx | sanjay6976, you have the same error or a different one ? | 21:55 |
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| sanjay6976 | VDVsx:sorry but i didn't get the instruction please if u can send it again the error is same | 22:00 |
| VDVsx | sanjay6976, try to check this: http://pastebin.ca/1430139 | 22:01 |
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| tank-man | anyone know anything about a newer garnet (palmos) vm ? current one has timebomb that expires in 10 days | 22:04 |
| lcuk | *cue dramatic 24 clock beeps* | 22:05 |
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| lcuk | no tank-man didnt know it had a best before date | 22:06 |
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| Javi | propietary software, you know | 22:06 |
| Javi | a pity for those who are using agendus or some other palm pim soft | 22:08 |
| Javi | on 10 days we promise... kaos | 22:08 |
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| sanjay6976 | tried setting that please check the outputin http://pastebin.ca/1430194 | 22:16 |
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| Macer | hm. did russia bury a bunch of bodies after chernobyl? | 22:52 |
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| RST38h | Yes, and they still glow | 22:56 |
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| RST38h | (aside from the ones that dug themselves out and walked away looking for humans that is) | 22:56 |
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| sanjay6976 | while running qmake i get the error "mmap: No such device or address" | 23:00 |
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| GAN800 | Yes, worked fine minus the virtual input issues. | 23:04 |
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| GAN800 | Er, Stskeeps. | 23:05 |
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| Stskeeps | mm? | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | thanks | 23:07 |
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| GAN800 | Stskeeps, I'd probably consider switching over at some point. | 23:09 |
| GAN800 | Although Moblin's new UI efforts look nice. | 23:09 |
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| Macer | the japanese are strange | 23:13 |
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| sanjay6976 | VDVsx:thanks for the help able to launch emulato :) | 23:13 |
| VDVsx | sanjay6976, good :) | 23:13 |
| sanjay6976 | I am getting error now while trying to run qmake it gives me "mmap: No such device or address" | 23:15 |
| sanjay6976 | while trying to run qmake of Qt over this | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: around? | 23:16 |
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| Stskeeps | gah | 23:19 |
| Stskeeps | another libtime victim | 23:19 |
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| * Stskeeps is fucking tired of silly nokia-binaries stuff like libtime which is a dbus wrapper. | 23:25 | |
| ShadowJK | dude, writing wrappers is the best thing ever. You end up writing many many lines of code, with minimal effort! | 23:27 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: yup (semi-briefly, hopefully) | 23:28 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, go kick some ass. | 23:28 |
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| GAN800 | Mailing list rants are always fun. ;) | 23:29 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: did you add extra patches to HAM when that was? | 23:29 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: i did already | 23:29 |
| Stskeeps | (on bugs.* | 23:29 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: yeah - ones not already in bmo were logged (i.e. the "don't depend on user" one which got resolved recently) | 23:31 |
| Stskeeps | k | 23:31 |
| Stskeeps | i can't upgrade to fremantle beta HAM anyway due to silly libtime-dev | 23:31 |
| Jaffa | Everything *should* have been carefully committed separately in bzr | 23:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: exactly | 23:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | wrapping wrappers for fun and profit! | 23:34 |
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| ShadowJK | The most fun is writing wrappers/frameworks that don't have a use yet | 23:35 |
| ShadowJK | then the next guy who actually finds a use for it comes and goes "wtf", and goes to great lengths to adapt his software to your strangeish framework ;) | 23:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: you must have tried to use browser-eal :) | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | or maemo-location | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | or any hildon framework | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | or gnomevfs | 23:37 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 23:37 | |
| timeless_mbp | or pretty much any software that's been touched here :) | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | gpsbt or whatever it was called | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | frameworks are indeed fun | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | it's also fun to work w/ people who change the api every day or week | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | they're learning how to do it now | 23:39 |
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| ShadowJK | you need rules for that. You change the API, you also change/send patches for all software using it ;) | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | while people are using it and writing code which is supposed to be more production stable than the framework being written concurrently :) | 23:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: if only it were that simple | 23:39 |
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| ShadowJK | :) | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | first you'd have to find all the consumers and the repos and the builders | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | and then you'd have to find the version that still builds and get everything pushed in a single lump | 23:40 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 23:40 | |
| timeless_mbp | working on mozilla was so much easier | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | everyone lived in one tree | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | if i changed an api, i posted a patch for all of the consumers, gave them a warning | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | Linux kernel people have that "you break api you fix users" policy, it also works as an incentive for driver developers to not have their drivers bitrot outside the kernel :) | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | and then landed for everyone concurrently | 23:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | s/users/in-tree consumers/ | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 23:41 |
| crashanddie | hey timeless_mbp | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | hey | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | i owe you guys a fax | 23:41 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders how to print | 23:41 | |
| crashanddie | @All: How do I remove Mer? | 23:41 |
| crashanddie | I need the internal mem card for storage | 23:42 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp, you never told me how it went, you got anything beneficial from the lunch? | 23:42 |
| lbt | cfdisk | 23:42 |
| * ShadowJK 'd imagine format card thingy in the file browser in maemo might be useful too (but I wouldn't dare use it with external card in slot) | 23:43 | |
| lbt | also /etc/bootmenu.d/Mer.item | 23:43 |
| crashanddie | lbt, got anything more verbose? | 23:45 |
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| lbt | not really.... | 23:48 |
| lbt | what do yo want to do? | 23:48 |
| lbt | get rid? | 23:48 |
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| crashanddie | lbt, think I got it, cheers | 23:49 |
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| lbt | heh ... I was going to walk you through and update the wiki | 23:49 |
| RST38h | http://www.flickr.com/photos/12905355@N05/3551920702/ | 23:50 |
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