IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-05-20

StsN800RST38x, to feed upon!00:00
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RST38xSts: We'll never know...00:00
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jaem_N810hey folks00:40
jaem_N810has anyone seen Wolfram|Alpha yet?00:40
Myrttiwho *hasn't*?00:41
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* jaem_N810 is late to the party00:41
jaem_N810although, @Myrtti, I can think of lots of people00:41
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mgedminI heard about it, but haven't seen it00:44
jaem_N810it's pretty cool00:44
mgedminwell, ok, I've seen screenshots00:44
mgedminhaven't tried using it00:44
jaem_N810it still has a long way to, as they admit00:45
jaem_N810but it can do a lot already00:45
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mavhcneeds more recent data00:50
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mavhcgigabytes of input!00:51
mgedminthe sample page for the ISS position cannot make up its mind whether it's over China or Australia00:53
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VDVsxlcuk, ping00:55
Macerman i love this server with nexenta on it00:56
Macerwell... more so zfs than nexenta00:57
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Maceri think i really want to try out fbsd on it and see how well the zfs stuff works with that also00:57
Macerbut im getting sustained topped out gbit connections :)00:57
tds5016hello all.00:57
tds5016is there anyone here that is a python developer on the maemo device?00:57
tds5016I need help with a uuid problem.00:57
tds5016namely, that uuid tries to call ifconfig.00:58
tds5016which it needs to be root to do.00:58
tds5016BUT I can't/don't want to have it run as root.00:58
mgedmintds5016: you don't need to be root to run ifconfig00:58
mgedminwell, it's not in your $PATH by default00:59
mgedminbut you can run /sbin/ifconfig00:59
tds5016hmm, why doesn't it show up for me unless I'm root?00:59
mgedminit's a good question00:59
mgedminwhat error do you get?00:59
tds5016hmm, apparently it does work?01:00
tds5016if I give it the absolute path.01:00
tds5016uuid won't get it thoguh :-/.01:00
lcuk\o VDVsx01:00
VDVsxlcuk, just tried your liqbase playtest :P01:01
lcukwere you in performance mode :$01:01
lcukand did you run the script rather than the all in one mega one01:01
VDVsxlcuk, the screen flick's in some of the mini app, but is very cool :P01:02
lcukrun it again01:02
tds5016mgedmin: it just returns a different mac address each time.01:02
lcukit wont flicker01:02
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tds5016I'm pretty sure it's failing, because I THINK the eigth bit returns as a 1.01:02
lcukthats a known bug which will have a known fix by the time the package will come01:02
tds5016which is what should happen.01:02
jaem_N810Macer: I'd thought of trying Nexenta, but my question was ... Why? It seems like an odd idea01:03
lcuk(some n810s cannot handle drawing 800*480 without flicker on the FIRST run after a reboot)01:03
mgedmintds5016: what version of python do you have?01:03
VDVsxlcuk, will reboot, my brother is drawing a rabbit right now, lol01:03
lcukheh in liqbase?01:03
jaem_N810lcuk: is this a new version you're talking about?01:03
lcukyou dont need to reboot01:03
lcukyou need to just run again :)01:03
lcukyeah jaem_N81001:03
lcuki have a shaky playtest01:03
jaem_N810has it hit extras-devl?01:03
lcuknot even close01:04
tds5016mgedmin: 2.5 on the maemo01:04
lcukthis is for a specific reason01:04
mgedmintds5016: apt-cache policy python2.501:04
lcukwhen its ready there will be a package :)01:04
lcukbut not before01:04
jaem_N810lcuk: okay :P01:04
tds5016what is that?01:04
mgedmina command that will tell you the exact package version01:04
VDVsxlcuk, ok, and I saw my ugly face in the program also:(, I gonna sue you :P01:04
jaem_N810lcuk: can I get the source to play around with, at least?01:05
lcukthe heads are good :)01:05
mgedminhm, is actually uuid.pyc and it's hidden inside /usr/lib/ on my n81001:05
* jaem_N810 is a sucker for prerelease01:05
lcukthe code handles any res there, i just did the heads cos i wanna be able to start talking to you01:05
tds5016mgedmin: it's in .zip for me, as well.01:05
jaem_N810pre-pre-pre-alpha? Why not?!01:05
lcukthe sketch button should eventually open a sketch based conversation window (with txt as well)01:05
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coldbootDoes anyone here do Qt development?01:05
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lcukyes coldboot lbt and some others01:06
lcukand they are very good at it :)01:06
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lcukVDVsx, did you see how quick and smooth the kinetics on the calendar are ? :$01:07
lcukor were you not in performance mode ?  (me curses that mode)01:07
coldbootI'm getting flickering when you click anything derived from QAbstractItemView on the n810, but not in scratchbox.01:07
lcukVDVsx, as root:   echo performance >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor01:07
tds5016mgedmin: any ideas?01:07
VDVsxlcuk, yaeh very, I only ran the script01:08
coldbootIt only happens on the first click, and it happens even if it's a blank QAbstractTableView with no model set.01:08
lcukcoldboot, have you checked the known bugs on the maemo qt4 garage page01:08
mgedmintds5016: tell me the version of your python2.5 package01:08
lcukor in the maemo bugzilla01:08
coldbootlcuk: I'll go look, thanks.01:08
lcukVDVsx, i keep strumming it like a guitar01:08
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tds5016installed: 2.5.2-losso401:08
lcuki want audio01:08
mgedminmine is 2.5.2-1osso2, and uuid works fine01:08
lcukwe need a band with all the maemo instruments01:08
coldbootlcuk: What words other than "flicker" would probably be used? flash...01:08
tds5016ugh, maybe I'm using it wrong?01:08
mgedminso, something seems to be broken in the newer version01:09
tds5016mgedmin: I'm on an n810.01:09
mgedminso am I01:09
lcukcoldboot, just look for bugs involving your class?01:09
mgedminI must've installed it months ago01:09
lcukthat might be a good start01:09
tds5016mgedmin: run it several times.01:09
mgedminI did01:09
tds5016and make sure it consistently returns the same.01:09
mgedminsame, correct, MAC every time01:09
tds5016with a different python process?01:09
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mgedminah, no, I haven't tried that01:09
tds5016try that real quick, because that's where my error is :-)01:09
lcukvdv, the calendar is editable you know..01:09
tds5016mgedmin: maybe I'm doing something wrong? can you show me what you have for it?01:10
tds5016I just run:01:10
tds5016import uuid01:10
tds5016print str(uuid.getnode())01:10
mgedminI ran python -c 'import uuid; print uuid.getnode()' 10 times, got the same value each time01:10
tds5016yeah, try killing off that python instance, and running a new one?01:11
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mgedminbtw hex(uuid.getnode()) may be nicer, especially if you want to compare with the mac address shown in ifconfig01:11
tds5016if it still works, I need something new :-)01:11
mgedmindid you see what I did? I ran a new python process every time01:11
mgedminlet me upgrade to 2.5.2-1osso401:11
VDVsxlcuk, can't figure out how to do that :P01:11
coldbootlcuk: Where are the known bugs on the garage page? Wouldn't they just be all in Bugzilla?01:12
lcuk /media/mmc1/_cal is required01:12
lcukcoldboot, i dunno ive been there once, i know they have a big list of bugs for qt01:12
lcukit might be there, but bugzilla will tell you that01:12
tds5016mgedmin: thanks for the help! :-)01:13
mgedmingaah, ssh session timed out, silly AP01:13
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lcukVDVsx, then once that folder exists clicking on the header (where the daynumber is) will show the editor01:13
mgedmintds5016: works fine01:13
mgedmin~ $ for n in `seq 10`; do python -c 'import uuid; print uuid.getnode()'; done01:13
mgedminsame answer each time01:13
VDVsxlcuk, gonna try01:14
coldbootlcuk: There are 6 open bugs for Qt on the garage site...01:14
tds5016try running python.01:14
tds5016then running it.01:14
tds5016then ctrl+d01:14
tds5016then run it again.01:14
tds5016tell me if you get the same?01:14
mgedminI'm lazy01:14
mgedminhow is that going to be different from python -c '...' ?01:14
tds5016(it might be something with the way I'm doing it?01:14
tds5016well, it'll force a different process?01:14
mgedminSO DOES PYTHON -C!01:14
mgedminsorry for shouting01:14
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jaem_n810_afkHey, zakkm101:15
* lcuk laffs01:15
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tds5016mgedmin: okay, just wanted to make sure.01:15
Macerjaem_n810_afk: it goes pretty fast01:15
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mgedmintds5016: why don't you try for n in `seq 10`; do python -c 'import uuid; print uuid.getnode()'; done  and see if you get different results?01:15
mgedminto make sure we're doing the same thing01:15
zakkm1hey jaem01:15
jaem_n810Macer: better than others, or just generally fast?01:15
mgedmintds5016: maybe the problem is not with python but with something else? does /sbin/ifconfig return the same value always?01:17
tds5016it should. would being on a vpn screw it up?01:17
mgedminhm... maybe it picks up a different device?01:18
mgedminmaybe it picks a device *randomly*01:18
mgedminhey, that makes sense -- it's generating an uuid01:18
* mgedmin opens on his laptop01:18
* jaem_n810 is going grocery shopping01:20
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mgedminno, it seems too be pretty deterministic...01:20
tds5016oh, the issue is that it's on the vpn client.01:21
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mgedminwell, time for me to get some sleep01:21
mgedmingood luck!01:21
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tds5016thanks man, that's what the issue is thoguh.01:21
tds5016it's having issues with it being on the vpn :-)01:21
tds5016can anyone else help me out with this issue?01:22
VDVsxlcuk, is possible to add widgets in the playground ?01:23
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lcukthe desktop managers eventual job will be to select them01:23
lcukat this point, there is a command line syntax to select those running on startup01:23
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VDVsxlcuk, ok, np :)01:24
lcukif you run vworld/vworld alone it enumerates and loads all widgets currently available01:24
lcukthis works best on a large format display that can handle many apps01:24
lcukour tablets run better with 4-9 :)01:25
tds5016blast I think mgedmin was the only one willing to help. haha.01:27
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Macerguess he left :)01:56
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tds5016Can someone tell me how to force uuid to grab a specific mac address in python?02:40
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tds5016hmm, how do I set the hostname on maemo?03:25
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kfxtds5016: same as any other linux system03:47
kfxecho my_new_hostname > /etc/hostname03:47
tds5016oh. nice.03:47
tds5016haha, I was thinking it was in hosts.03:47
tds5016good call. thanks!03:47
kfxnp :)03:47
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tds5016damn. how do I get to the special characters on the n810?03:58
luke-jrwhy does my N810 shutdown if I unplug the power cable?03:58
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nomisluke-jr: battery empty?04:01
luke-jrnomis: it's been on the charger for hours04:01
luke-jrand turning it back on works04:01
nomisand the battery status indicator shows its fully charged?04:02
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luke-jrnomis: I don't have such a battery status indicator04:04
luke-jrdue to Nokia's stupid kernel using non-standard interfaces04:04
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nomisno idea then.04:05
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tds5016if I change the hostname, should network connections freak out before a restart?04:10
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elementzhi all. i would like to have a look at os2008. what do i need to dl to run it in virtualbox?04:39
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elementzgot it already. thx04:41
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Macerelementz: i used 2007 and 2008 and don't understand why people would stick with 200704:54
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Bobbeguys, what should I do when I run ./initfs_flash but it doesn't ask me anything and boots straight to the flash?05:19
Bobbethere's a command, I just don't remember what it is. Something with ask:05:19
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Macergo openoffice web site go05:33
Macerwith your blinding 50K/s speeds!05:33
kfxthey're just getting hou used to the operating speed of the softwzre05:34
kfxI need n810 typing practice :/05:35
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Inf3kt4yes i like tah fly kites06:45
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Maceromg ncis is a riot07:11
Inf3kt4whats playing tonight07:17
Inf3kt4whys ncis a riot07:18
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Macerrise of the lycans is already out on blue ray?07:45
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RST38x"No one wants to turn this thing on with the obvious exception of some of our D-Class sociopaths who would respond similarly to a large red button labeled EVERYTHING DIES."08:01
luke-jrnoriko ~ # ./n8x0_cfgread wlan-mac 0 1 /dev/mtd1 208:12
StsN800reading is easy. writing isn't08:13
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luke-jrStsN800: I don't need to write to cfg08:15
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luke-jrthe real problem now is that *$&#*($ stlc45xx-cal actually *does something* with the data08:15
luke-jrso my little toy is only really useful for setting the MAC address08:16
luke-jrifconfig wlan0 hwaddr $(./n8x0_cfgread wlan-mac 0 1 /dev/mtd1ro 2)08:16
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Macerinstalling cygwin ports is driving me nuts09:40
Stskeepscygwin = awkward09:40
* Stskeeps watches smartq7 unboxing video09:40
MacerStskeeps: well.. it certainly is09:40
Maceri don't understand why i can't seem to find more on the subject09:40
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mib_d22bkdhello, is anybody here?09:41
mib_d22bkdneed help09:42
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mib_d22bkdi just bought n800 and i try to install ubuntu,09:42
Stskeepsthat's kinda advanced for a newbie :P09:42
mib_d22bkdgoing: til the end09:42
mib_d22bkdbut i have incompatible bootmenu problem, :( and in google i havent fount the answer09:43
mib_d22bkdnobody say in eady way how to fix it09:43
Stskeepsincompatible bootmenu means you used a bad bootmenu initially to boot it.09:43
Stskeepsor a bad item09:44
mib_d22bkdok, so.. what bootmenu i need to use, and where to instal it... in maemo env. or chroot of ubuntu ?09:44
Stskeepsyou need to get the deblet boootmenu, the one that Mer uses, and then you need to set up the right .item, and be -sure- to have it contain ITEM_LINUXRC, and then you reinstall ubuntu all over :)09:45
Myrttieven though I love ubuntu a lot, I don't understand the benefits of installing it to mobile devices like NIT...09:45
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StskeepsMyrtti: i don't get it either, but if they want a 3-4 hour laptop, sure.. :P09:46
MyrttiI should go and make coffee...09:46
mib_d22bkdok, (about deblet bootmenu)... from where? :) .... /09:47
Stskeepsmib_d22bkd: what exactly do you need ubuntu for, btw? :P09:47
Stskeepsmib_d22bkd: and the deblet bootmenu is definately in the guide09:47
mib_d22bkdsetting up the .item is easy09:47
Stskeepsif it's not, b-man needs a SEVERE beating.09:47
mib_d22bkdi wanna ubuntu to make translate my device to Polish language fully09:47
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Stskeepsyou mean have your device be in polish09:48
MacerStskeeps: that things looks interesting09:48
Myrttithat's a pretty hard way of doing that09:48
mib_d22bkdyes... even aplications thar are available in polish in desctop ubuntu09:48
Macerthat thing is a beast09:49
StskeepsMacer: yeah, there's a 4.3" and a 7"09:49
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Macerwow that thing is awesome09:49
Stskeepsand it runs mer ;)09:49
Stskeeps(when i compile the bootloader + kernel for it)09:49
Macerdoes it really???09:49
mib_d22bkdStskeeps: could you tel me from where i must get deblet bootmenu?09:49
Maceri thought you meant they were selling it with it :)09:50
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Macerno qwerty?09:50
Macerubuntu arm?09:51
mib_d22bkdStskeeps: use bootmenu from ?09:51
Macerit's running gnome?09:52
mib_d22bkdis the "Incompatible bootmenu" on ubuntu wil diapear when i use "Install bootmenu" from Mer?09:53
Macerand fail with the keyboard not resizing the windows09:53
Macerit looked good until it started to run Stskeeps09:54
Macerlol... and it runs slow as shit. the only thing it has going for it is that the screen is a nice size09:55
mib_d22bkdanybody could told me that is a god point or not? Install Boot Menu from MER?09:55
Stskeepsmib_d22bkd: yes, it is09:56
Stskeepsmib_d22bkd: but you need to reinstall ubuntu afterwards09:56
StskeepsMacer: yeah, sw is shite09:56
Stskeepsmachine is faster than n800 though09:56
Macerit sure is09:56
Maceron paper it is ;)09:56
Stskeepsnah, Mer runs really speedy on it09:56
Maceryeah but...09:56
Macerno qwerty09:57
mib_d22bkdstskeeps: ok, very thnx, before that i must reflash to default os2008 :) becouse i have DESTROY to much ;]09:57
Maceri refuse to buy another thing without a qwerty :)09:57
Stskeepsyea, but you can plug in a usb keyboard09:57
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Stskeepswhich is also kinda powerful09:57
Stskeepsalso, 7" isn't something i want to carry around09:57
Stskeeps(no usb hub needed)09:57
Macernaw.. that's not too bad09:57
mib_d22bkdthnx, for everything, i will go try it now, and be back to tell how it goes09:57
Maceri mean you would need some pretty large pockets09:57
Stskeepsmib_d22bkd: be aware that the ubuntu port is entirely unsupported except by the author :P09:57
mib_d22bkdStskeeps: ok, i will look how it works, if it will not that good as i thing, i will install easy-deb on maemo ;]09:59
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thuxso many x86 linux distributions and so few armel linux distributions10:13
macmaN6789well lookie there, another incompatible bootmenu guy10:13
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StsN801macmaN6789, the instructions are full of failures and potential pitfalls.. there's a reason why we tried to make mer install painless10:19
Macerwow cygwin sucks10:19
macmaN6789Macer: it does but its better than nothing10:20
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Macerwell.. it isn't that bad10:20
Macerbut it should have a commanline pkg manager10:20
Macerinstead of having to run a damn win setup program10:20
macmaN6789I was the same way :-o10:20
Maceri mean it was cool once.. but to do it over and over just to add pkgs?10:21
Macerdoes it even do dep checking?10:21
macmaN6789getting apache to run was another omfg10:21
Maceror do you wind up running the setup a thousand times?10:21
macmaN6789and in the end.. I couldn't10:21
Maceri wouldn't even try with this :)10:21
macmaN6789it has deps10:21
Macerdon't they have a native w32 apache anyways?10:21
macmaN6789they do10:21
macmaN6789but I thought id have a nice neat cygwin setup10:21
Maceroh.. so if i install something from the setup program it will install the apps?10:22
macmaN6789yes it will10:22
Macerer.. deps10:22
Maceri meant :)10:22
macmaN6789apache for me ran into some stupid semaphore problem10:22
Maceri just kind of wanted to see if i could use some of the stuff10:22
macmaN6789IPC stuff10:22
Maceri want to definately use it over the win shell10:22
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macmaN6789yep, I'm sshing in and out10:22
macmaN6789wgetting new windows apps10:22
macmaN6789screening a bit even, although that's a bit shaky10:23
Maceri'm sure it comes in handy .. i just can't stand this "have to run the setup program" thing it has going on10:23
timeless_mbpmacmaN6789: anything, including nothing is better than cygwin10:23
Macerit's typical windows shit. where you change domains and you have to reboot :)10:23
macmaN6789lol timeless_mbp10:23
StsN801wasn't there microsofts services for unix too?10:24
macmaN6789well when I got my mbp, that was also a "what no package manager, STILL" :-o10:24
MacerStsN801: yes10:24
Maceri used to use it for nfs10:24
mavhcwindows apache used threads way before unix one did10:24
macmaN6789StsN801: I think those are even less than nothing10:24
Macerfound out samba was better and didn't suck as much ;)10:24
Macerdid uid mapping also which was nice10:24
Maceruid and gid mappings to keep permissions10:25
Maceri think samba has a set mask for both10:25
mavhcthere's package managers for mac, there's at least 3 for windows, but without open source software they can't not suck10:26
Macermac has macports :)10:26
Macerwhich actually works quite well .. but i use it on my laptop so it doesn't serve much of a purpose10:27
Maceri should run osx86 on my k4510:27
macmaN6789yeah macports is something at least10:27
Veggenmavch That's basically because Windows' process-model sucks, and the cost of starting a new process was way too high, there...10:27
timeless_mbpStskeeps: SFU still exists10:27
VeggenWasn't that necessary on *nix.10:27
timeless_mbpalthough i think they might have renamed it (again)10:27
mavhcmac GUI sucks anyway10:27
Macermacports works way beter than this disgusting cygwin ports10:27
Macerat least you can install it easily10:27
timeless_mbpVeggen: bah10:27
Macercygwin ports install is broken10:27
timeless_mbpthe linux process model is wrose10:27
Macermavhc: i agree. i don't like the mac gui10:28
thuxalways wondered why people use windows so much10:28
Macerwonder if i can replace it but still run the mac apps :)10:28
timeless_mbpthux: windows just works10:28
Macerthux: because of awesome marketing by ms :)10:28
Veggenthux: Oh, that one is easy. Everyone uses windows because everyone uses windows.10:28
timeless_mbpMacer: um, ms doesn't really do that much marketing10:29
timeless_mbpi'm fairly confident that apple does more proportionally10:29
Macertimeless_mbp: i think you missed the earlier conversation about gnu vs dictatorships10:29
thuxbut even nmap is hard to run well in xp sp2 or later10:29
mavhcbecause it's cheaper10:30
Veggentimeless: hmm. I'm not so sure what they do vis avis the OEM channel, to make them so dedicated MS-pushers....10:30
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Macerwould also be nice if this damn cygwin setup program would have some goddamn search to it10:33
Veggenbut Windows "just works" is something I don't hear that often :)10:35
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VeggenI think it might be true, though, if you have competent users. The problem is that you don't, and Windows has been touted as a no-training-necessary-system for so long...10:36
ShadowJKI find most things harder to do in windows, but that's probably becausebi'm used to nix10:37
ShadowJKbut the funniest situation was when neighbour bought a wlan adapter for his pc10:38
VeggenMy bold statement is that for non-competent users with relatively simple needs (i.e. no Windows-only programs), a well configured Linux is much better.10:38
ShadowJKeven with the included driver disc we couldn't figure out anyway to make it do anything...10:39
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thuxShadowJK: I agree, most things are harder to do in windows10:39
VeggenI have a friend or two with empiric evidence of that, even. Don't do too much Linux-pushing myself, but those that do, normally do it on the non-competent WIndows users about the 5th time they do spyware/virus cleaning of their computer...10:39
ShadowJKpluggef it into my linux box and it 'just worked', which sure as hell surprised me10:39
timeless_mbpVeggen: a well configured Linux system, who can find10:40
Macerhm. i should try building something with cygwin and see if it works10:40
ShadowJKown experience dealing with inexperienced users is that nothing is easy to use10:40
Macerlike mplayer or something10:40
Veggentimeless: I think those hardware-vendors aren't that competent.10:40
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Veggenbut I agree - the perfect OS doesn't exist. Sometimes Windows sucks more, sometimes it's Linux that sucks.10:41
VeggenFor my use and my skills, it's definitely Windows that sucks more.10:42
ShadowJKand there is no "intuitive" interfaces or programs. doesnt exit.10:42
* timeless_mbp shrugs10:42
timeless_mbpyou clearly don't do enough programming10:42
timeless_mbplinux as a dev base is bad :)10:42
timeless_mbpbtw the line i wrote above 'who can find' is a reference to Proverbs 3110:43
ShadowJKXP out of the box is actually the easiest for newbies so far, I think. The bright colours make it easy to learn the concept of a window, and easier to recognize where they start and where they end...10:43
aquatixexcept that they don't know how to use a mouse10:43
ShadowJKlearning how the widgets work, and where they start and where they end, and what is cilickable and what is not, and what they do, however, takes as long as with any other thing10:43
ShadowJKthere is that too :)10:43
* aquatix saw his granddads struggle with that :)10:44
ShadowJKI actually switched to Linux originally because I wanted to program stuff and windows had no compiler :)10:44
ShadowJKbut a friend of mine told me linux came with a C compiler for free10:44
ShadowJKafter a week he told me of 'man' command :)10:45
timeless_mbpShadowJK: heh10:45
timeless_mbpnote that there are a number of free compilers for windows10:45
timeless_mbpso the argument is fairly lame10:45
ShadowJKYeah I actually found one10:45
thuxalso kernel modification is easier in linux, even me can compile or patch it, but i have no clue how to patch win kernel10:45
ShadowJKI think it was called lcc10:45
timeless_mbpand unlike w/ linux, the free compilers for windows don't suck10:45
ShadowJKthere was also djgbpp iirc10:45
timeless_mbpwell, there were a bunch, djgpp was one10:45
timeless_mbpborland had a free one10:45
timeless_mbpdepending on time, there was openwatcom or digitalmars10:46
ShadowJKI never figured out how to do anything with borland :)10:46
timeless_mbpand for recent memory, you've been able to get a free compiler from microsoft10:46
suihkulokkiShadowJK: XP out of box was also so vulnerable that it would get Blaster worm infection faster than you could download the fix for it from windowsupdate :P10:46
timeless_mbp(since 2001 or so?)10:46
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: you're looking at the box wrong10:46
timeless_mbpXP out of the box wasn't vulnerable when it shipped10:47
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timeless_mbpit was vulnerable later10:47
timeless_mbptake a linux distro from 2001 and set it up on a computer10:47
ShadowJKI guess the combination of getting man pages, compiler and editor installed by default was the thing that really made it for me10:47
thuxalso installing programs is harder in windows, with linux you just use apt-get yum emerge or such10:47
timeless_mbpthen check a web site to find out how many vulnerabilities it has10:47
* ShadowJK couldn't afford to stay online more than an hour or so per day in those days, so searching libc functions online wasnt an option :)10:48
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timeless_mbpfirst, i think you'll find that your distro won't be supported today by your vendor10:48
timeless_mbpwhich might mean you don't get any software updates10:48
thuxi switched to linux cause it is easier to use for newbie like me10:49
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ShadowJKBut anyway, XP is pretty nice as long as you dont install software... But when the user then buys a printer or digital camera and installs the software disc, suddenly instead of having XP'S UI, they now have  new UIs that use different looking widgets and primitives, as well as having different logic and workflow compared to the XP they just started struggling with :(10:50
suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: it did happen. I had a friend who bought a new XP machine, plugged into internet, XP proceed to download fixes and before the download finished the machine was infected and the friend was calling me :P10:50
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ShadowJKwhich is a bit of a shame, since XP has perfectly usable and friendly interface for dealing both with printers and digital cameras, as well as burning CDs and stuff, no need for all the confusing third party software really10:50
ShadowJKsuihkulokki: yeah but "properly setup" Machine comes with latest XP updates anyway ;p10:51
* ShadowJK ponders how to get rid of the capitalization statusbarwhen using bluetooth keyboard10:52
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: your friend should have had a router protecting the box :)10:54
timeless_mbpShadowJK: in Mer or Diablo?10:54
timeless_mbpin diablo the text input control panel let you turn that stuff off10:54
timeless_mbpunless you actually want it for the non bt keyboards10:54
timeless_mbpin which case, i don't think we're that granular10:54
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ShadowJKId want it to go away when I use the bluetooth keyboard, and I'd want normal stylus/finger onscreen keyboards available when bluetooth keyboard isnt connected :)10:55
ShadowJKright now I get this N810-likee capitalization statusbar with bluetooth keyboard on N800 :)10:56
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ShadowJKI turned off all the auto stuff under dictionaries in text input in control panel but it's still doing it :)10:58
ShadowJKon N810 it goes away with shift-space when using the hw keyboard, doesn't seem to work witht bluetooth keyboard on n800 though :\11:00
* ShadowJK looks at the blinking update notification on N810..11:01
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ShadowJKkonttori: "Unable to update usbcontrol, Application packages missing: python-dbus"11:05
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ShadowJKid guess depending on python2.5-dbus would be better :)11:06
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ShadowJKah there we go, input statusbar gone :)11:09
ShadowJKI missed one item... touchscreen beeped but it must've registered it somewhere else than where I was pointing :)11:10
Macertoo bad the best thing they could make is cygwin :)11:10
ShadowJKcygwin is terrible :)11:10
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Maceryeah it is11:11
Macerthere are just a few things that i want on my win7 box11:11
Macerlike bash for one11:11
Macerstill can't believe they killed kate in ncis11:12
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ShadowJKI've made do with msys/mingw11:13
Maceri wonder if i should install x with cygwin11:14
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ShadowJKoh halp now I Get no stylus or finger keyboard after disconneting bt keyboard :)11:20
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ShadowJKhuh... is the search bar on broken for anyone else on the device?11:25
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JaffaX-Fade: confirmed #4392 looks fixed12:39
X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, was kind of a big puzzle ;)12:40
JaffaOf course, being logged out within a couple of hours of logging in (same browser instance) is very irritating (#2085)12:40
JaffaBut it did make testing the fix easier ;-)12:40
RST38xWhy this is limited to couple of hours I do not understand12:41
X-FadeIt should be limited to session. (Browser close)12:41
RST38xEven google maintains gmail logins for a couple of weeks at a time12:41
RST38xX-Fade; Should be limited to a week or so and alow logins from multiple machines at the same time (i.e. work, home., tablet)12:42
JaffaX-Fade: It doesn't for me (or, I guess, RST38h)12:42
RST38xFor me it is both12:42
X-FadeRST38x: Well, talking about security issue ;)12:42
RST38xbrowser close + time12:42
X-FadeRST38x: Ease over security, always a good thing ;)12:42
RST38xX-Fade: I do not think it is much of a security issue really12:42
JaffaX-Fade: for something like, yes12:42
RST38xX-Fade: To make it less an issue, show all logged in sessions under the user's name on top12:43
StsN801does have sane backup? :P12:43
JaffaRST38x: could you vote for #2085? I realised I commented, but didn't vote12:43
RST38xJaffa: A moment12:44
JaffaStsN801: Yes. Tero explained it on the tmo thread about the flight sim site. But I dunno if his comment included tmo12:44
RST38xbtw, remembers my login just fine12:44
RST38xfor days at a time12:44
X-Fadeyeah, we just need to add a 'remember me' for maemo.org12:44
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Macergot this cygwin crap to work as an xserver in win712:49
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Macerworks pretty good12:50
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mikkov_X-Fade: here's downloads conflict
X-Fademikkov_: Another one where the creator didn't read the warning on the form ;)13:07
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X-Fademikkov_: I fixed it, thanks for noticing.13:10
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czrsorry for slightly OT question, any hints on when the next nokia device will come out?13:11
mikkov_i'm pretty sure that not today13:12
X-Fadeczr: Fremantle is in beta, so things are shaping up. But no date announced yet.13:12
* czr nods13:12
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Jaffalo lardman13:40
lardmanhi Jaffa13:40
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lardmaninteresting, nVidia GTS 250 for <£100 now13:47
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oDudahere we go again...14:11
oDudahello all !14:12
oDudaall waked !14:12
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lcuklardman, thats really cheap14:25
lcukyou could play some excell errrr do some serious scientific calculations with a nice cheap decent visual processing addin daughterboard14:25
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liriI thought that the syncevolution thing could sync N810's calendar/contacts with my evolution running on a linux desktop14:30
lcukliri, which calendar are you  using on n810..14:31
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lirilcuk: I installed pimloco's Dates application14:34
lirilcuk: I don't have anything else in specific14:34
lcukthen see whether pimloco is integrated with syncevolution and check logs and console output when attempting to sync14:36
lcuki know nothing about either app unfortunately14:36
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lardmanlcuk: perhaps I should have been an architect, they are allowed to use 3D visualisation (games) programmes to see their designs14:42
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lardman nice14:44
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lardmanwe had thoughts of obtaining a CAD drawing of the uni and playing that in Doom 3, but none of us could be bothered to convert it. Would have been good though :)14:44
Stskeepshehe.. doing that in highschool in US will just make the authorities go columbine on your ass :P14:45
lardmanthere's one chap who was always too good, he knew the maps too well, so we thought we'd level the playing field14:46
lardmanplus sniping from the top of the library would be pretty cool too14:46
* derf alerts the appropriate authorities.14:46
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derfIt's been done more than once.14:46
lardmannot over here14:47
derfThe 3D shooter map of your school, I mean.14:47
lardmanah I see14:47
derfThough, sniping from the library has been done, too.14:47
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derfWell, "book depository".14:47
Jaffalardman: I wrote a tool when at IBM to take the AutoCAD files and generate realtime maps of the floorplans (highlighting people's offices)14:48
derfActually, I don't remember if the tower at UT Austin is part of the library or not. I know the bell tower at UNC is not.14:48
derfBut both of those have had snipers.14:48
JaffaThere was enough info to generate a Quake/UT level to explore the site, but no-one ever did (despite talking about it)14:48
lcuklardman, 3d has always been on the cards for architectural work, i was fascinated as a kid seeing some swanky object oriented design system that would only let you position things and move things if it was physically possible14:48
lcukie you couldnt take a big couch through a door so you couldnt include it in the plans14:48
lcukthis went down to the nuts and bolts :)  years before sims had it14:49
lardmanJaffa: we ran out of time really, I think I have the CAD drawing somewhere around here, but PhD deadlines loomed ever closer14:49
lcukderf, wad files of offices are cool,  i often pondered whether all email and tasks should be delivered that way14:50
lcukdie along the way, mail doesnt arrive14:50
lardmanlcuk: yeah it's been around for a long time, I was just reminiscing :)14:50
derf"That task wasn't important anyway."14:50
* lcuk does as well14:50
amris the n810 the best maemo device out atm still?14:50
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lcukamr, some folks still swear by their 770s :)  "best" is subjective in most terms, "newest" is n81014:51
amrmy 770 would be useful so much but it has the stupid WSOD (again) and the retailer is being arsey14:51
amrit looks like i can get an n810 on ebay for ~150. im thinking it would be mega useful for uni14:51
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lcuki believe theres practically new stock for ~$200 in places, check before you shell out close to that for a second user system14:53
lardmannew hw ought to be out soon too really14:53
* Myrtti huggles her n80014:53
lardmanas it's summer holidays now, and I guess term won't start till sept or thereabouts14:53
amri saw 'pcworld' in the uk did them for £79 once upon a time14:53
amrbut i missed them14:53
lcuksummer hols already?14:54
amrwell im still at uni now and will be until july14:54
lardmanexam time or project time though isn't it? I'd wait14:54
amrexam time yeah14:54
amrthen intro lectures for things next year14:54
LinuxCodeId wait full-stop14:54
LinuxCodesooner or later the replacement model has to come out14:55
lardmanyeah, well the new one should be out before next term, I bloody well hope so anyway :)14:55
amrim very impatient14:55
amryeah haha14:55
lcuk:) i would never wait for computer tech, mind you - i wouldnt buy until  i had a need for it14:55
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LinuxCodeamr, besides you wont need one anymore until you start uni14:55
lardmanlcuk: well when there's a clear jump I would wait, for incremental I would just get it when I need it14:55
lcukLinuxCode, why dont you sell him yours :P14:56
LinuxCodelcuk, how about, DIE14:56
* LinuxCode uses his N810 daily14:56
amrwell im not just getting it for uni14:56
* lcuk also uses LinuxCode's n810 daily14:56
amri used my 770 daily14:56
lcuk(but dont tell LinuxCode)14:56
amrbut it broke before the start of the academic year14:56
* LinuxCode /dev/zero's lcuk's randomly14:57
lcukwhats my randomly14:57
lcukand will it hurt?14:57
LinuxCodeyour N81014:57
LinuxCodeyes it will hurt14:57
LinuxCodeyou will have to reflash it every time14:57
lcuk:O u cant delete my n81014:57
lcukit has the new liqbase code on it14:58
amrits been a while since ive paid any attention to the maemo world :o14:58
amrwhats all this mer nonsense!14:58
lcuktheres no copy anywhere14:58
lcukat all in the world14:58
Stskeepsnonsense? :P14:58
LinuxCodelcuk, trying to do what that flight sim site did ?14:58
LinuxCodethat just made me think, god, how duull are they ?14:58
lcukLinuxCode, heh i could make a flightsim for maemo14:58
amroh it looks pretty14:59
lcukbut ive got other tihngs in mind ;)14:59
LinuxCodelcuk, im sure you do14:59
lcukamr, what does?14:59
amrim just reading about it now, im massively out of the loop14:59
* lardman goes for bacon and to pay for his banns15:00
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* lcuk thinks mer is gonna be really good stable linux distro15:00
* lcuk might look at the omapfb problems soon15:02
lcukdinneritme anyway15:03
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Jaffakonttori_: ping15:12
t_s_ohmm, i see a usbcontrol update (probably devel), with python and python-dbus dependencies...15:12
Jaffat_s_o: it *is* devel, I asked konttori_ to upload it for diablo yesterday. Needs a section tweak (so it's not "user/multimedia") and a new version (1.1).15:13
JaffaAlso related to the ping I just did ;-)15:13
t_s_oi just hope the 1.1 cleans up the deps, as the python's should be python2.5...15:13
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Jaffat_s_o: I'll tack that on to my email to konttori_ - want to be CCed?15:14
t_s_ono biggie15:15
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Stskeepsandre_: closing 2249 doesn't make sense15:38
Stskeepsat least the reason15:38
Stskeepsthere's FMTX libraries in fremantle at least15:39
X-FadeStskeeps: That is FM transmitter?15:39
X-FadeStskeeps: Not receiver?15:39
Stskeepsyeah, true15:39
Stskeepsandre_k i meant15:39
Stskeepsstill kernels pointed to fmrx too :)15:40
Stskeepsbut nm :)15:40
X-FadeStskeeps: Yeah, the chip that is mentioned should be FM rx capable IIRC.15:40
Stskeepsyeah.. which wondered me15:40
andre_ki was told that there's no work going on for that anymore. my info might be wrong though15:42
andre_kdefinitely feel free to reopen15:42
X-Fade- FM receiver + bluetooth 2.0 (bcm2048)15:42
X-FadeShould at least be FM radio capable ;)15:42
Stskeepsandre_k: well the bug is probably not valida nymore :)15:43
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, replaced with a TI chip.15:43
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, WL127115:43
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Same difference ;)15:44
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Has FM too?15:44
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, has damn near everything but 802.11a15:50
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yeah, quite amazing.15:50
GeneralAntillesShould give better power saving than the Broadcom/TI combo15:50
Stskeepsgoogle translates windows CE to "sweet potato"15:51
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aquatixStskeeps: at least it's an improvement15:57
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BogdanRHello everybody16:04
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BogdanRI am thinking of rebuilding the FIASCO image of OS2008 but I can't find any info about that16:04
BogdanRCan anyone give me some pointers on how to rebuild the FIASCO image16:05
Stskeepsyeah, that's a interesting problematique - go comment on the open flasher bug16:05
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Stskeepswhat do you want to do?16:06
t_s_oany news on a green light for the community taking over the updates for diablo?16:06
BogdanRI want to bundle my own set of applications and configurations in the image16:06
Stskeepsright, but you are aware you cannot distribute it to anyone but yourself?16:07
Stskeepsif so, i would just make a rootfs jffs instead16:07
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BogdanRI see16:07
BogdanRand how do I do that?16:07
Jaffat_s_o: Technically it seems straightforward. I guess we just need to find time to rebuild h-a-m and a new osso-software-version-rx*16:07
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t_s_oremind me, h-a-m?16:08
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StskeepsBogdanR: read up on mkfs.jffs216:08
BogdanRActually my main question is how can I backup what's now on the device as a jffs image16:08
BogdanRbecause with mkfs I just format a fs16:09
BogdanRStskeeps: If I make my own jffs image would I be allowed to distribute that?16:09
Jaffat_s_o: Hildon Application Manager. There are some useful fixes we submitted, that were merged, that can be seen in mer - but not diablo16:10
StskeepsBogdanR: probably not, the curse of Maemo, it's 80% open source, 20% closed16:10
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t_s_oand the 20%'s are what makes it more then a paperweight...16:11
X-FadeStskeeps: Although if you keep the initfs, you can do a lot?16:11
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BogdanRI thought that kernel stuff are closed source16:11
StskeepsX-Fade: yeah but then there's DSP codecs, most of the os2008 apps.. etc16:12
BogdanRMer doesn't use any of the closed source things?16:12
Stskeepsit just gets very difficult to distinguish16:12
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StskeepsBogdanR: we try to keep a 100% open source rootfs.. with ln -s's into initfs16:12
Stskeepswe dont distribute initfs16:12
BogdanRI see16:12
Stskeepswe are working on this though and i plan to discuss it further on the copenhagen meetup :P16:13
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BogdanRStskeeps: Can you please tell me how do I make a jffs rootfs out of my current one?16:13
BogdanRMer is starting to look very cool16:13
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StskeepsBogdanR: i would boot into either mer or a cloned maemo and mount the rootfs and mkfs.jffs2 that :P16:14
BogdanRIs .13 sprint done compiling?16:14
Stskeepsthe imager for N8x0 is building at this exact moment16:14
BogdanRdo you think it will be done today ? :)16:15
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Stskeepsi bloody hope so :P16:18
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RST38xMoo all16:30
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Meizirkkim00 RST38x16:35
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lizardoX-Fade: a much more up-to-date libffi version is already in fremantle:
lizardoX-Fade: and it replaces libffi4 entirely16:39
X-Fadelizardo: Yeah, I'm doing a diablo->fremantle rebuild. But some libs slipped through ;)16:40
X-Fadelizardo: But at least it failed :D16:40
lizardoX-Fade: yeah, but unfortunately the autobuilder only checks the package name for rejection (and note the Provides/Replaces fields), but luckly the build itself failed with a known issue (fixed in the libffi version already in extras-devel) :)16:41
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X-Fadelizardo: If you need anything from diablo -> fremantle, please let me know.17:04
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lizardoX-Fade: ok, thanks :) for PyMaemo we actually don't need anything from Diablo, as we uploaded all required packages already (pretty much all of them were updated since diablo)17:05
X-Fadelizardo: Yeah, I figured that. But I had to ask :)17:06
lizardoX-Fade: I'm just tracking maemo-extras-cauldron to make sure that none of the packages being uploaded replace/break the current PyMaemo set17:06
lizardoX-Fade: but fortunately the autobuilder rejects older versions, so that has not been a problem so far :)17:07
X-Fadelizardo: yeah, we should add even more checks soon. We need to prevent obvious breakages.17:08
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lizardoX-Fade: one possible check (not sure if easy to make) is to reject packages that are listed in Provides/Replaces/Conflicts fields of some existing package , this would detect renamed packages, for instance libffi4 -> libffi5 case17:11
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lizardoX-Fade: another one might be to reject (or at least add some big warning on the e-mail sent to the extras-cauldron) packages that are listed in "alternative dependencies" of existing packages. Example: a package named "x" which has Depends: a|b (where b is already available in the repository, and thus satisfies the dependency); then some other user uploads a package named "a", then package "x" might end up using "a" as dependency without knowing it17:15
lizardoX-Fade: that last one was the case for the recent libclutter break17:16
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fiferboylbt: How's it going?17:19
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lbthi fiferboy17:21
lbtbusy job hunting today ;)17:21
fiferboylbt: I hear Qt is building for the next release of Mer17:21
lbtit's done17:21
lbtMer Stable is just about out17:22
fiferboyIs it included by default, or just available?17:22
lbtit's not in the core iso17:22
lbtbut it is in the core repo17:22
fiferboyI guess it would be too big for the core at this point17:22
X-Fadelizardo: Current check code is here:
lbtas is QTablet17:22
lbtwhich I really must fix17:22
X-Fadelizardo: Nice python code, you'll like it ;)17:22
X-Fadelizardo: So if you are bored over the weekend, maybe a nice patch is a great way to spend the day? :)17:23
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fiferboylbt: I just tried flickrdemo (which Antonio built at some point) with finger scrolling, and it works well.17:27
RST38x(rather stupid usage of the opportunity, but still...)17:27
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lbtdid you add it to your app?17:27
fiferboyNo, I installed it standalone from the repo17:28
lbtI suspect it will break if you have any active widgets in your scrollarea :(17:28
fiferboyHow do you mean?17:28
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lbtit only tracks events that make it to the scrollarea17:28
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lbtso anything active will eat events b4 they get there17:29
fiferboyHow would I test that?17:29
lbttry adding the flickcharm to the scrollarea on your birdlist17:30
fiferboyAh, sorry I was talking about flickrdemo, a Flickr photo viewer.17:30
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fiferboyI meant that I ran it using your finger scroll library with no issues.17:31
lbtflickr.... d'oh17:31
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fiferboyI haven't tried my flickcharm birdlist with the finger scroll libraries.  I didn't think there was much point17:31
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amrim looking at n810s and im losing the ability to say no!17:33
X-Fadeamr: While it is getting older, it doesn't mean it sucks ;)17:34
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amri never said it sucks17:34
amri want one :p17:34
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kfxnow's the time17:34
Stskeepsjust dont get it for the gps17:35
kfxI bought mine like two weeks ago and now it's way cheaper17:35
amrhow much did you pay?17:35
amrStskeeps, whys that?17:35
X-FadeStskeeps: I made 3 full day hikes this week. No problem with fixes what so ever.17:35
kfxI paid $240, now has 'em for $20017:35
amrreally? hmm17:35
amri wonder if they ship internationally17:35
amrim looking at ~ 15017:36
X-FadeStskeeps: Really weird but it fixed within a minute and didn't have any problems..17:36
amrso thats about 230 dollars?17:36
kfxyeah, more or less17:36
lizardoX-Fade: I would love to help, if I have some time maybe... But if I read the code correctly, the only check currectly if for a package with same name but lower version (in check_sources()) ?17:36
kfxif you buy at that price it will make me feel less stupid for buying at the price I did :D17:36
* Jaffa has had relatively good performance from the GPS recently too17:36
amrwell ive enquired about getting one for 12017:36
amrbnib from ebay17:37
amrso heres hoping17:37
amri might just get it anyway17:37
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amrdid you have any previous tablets kfx ?17:37
lizardoX-Fade: anyway, I need to give more thought about the checks I proposed, I'm pretty sure there are unhandled cases on them :)17:37
kfxamr: actually, I moved from carrying a nokia e61 and an acer aspire one to just the n810 and an s40 (non smart)phone17:38
X-Fadelizardo: Yeah, but at least covering the obvious ones will help.17:38
amroh nice17:39
amrive got an s60 phone17:39
amri had the 770, but i broke it :p17:39
amri loved that thing17:39
amrand dont ship intl, how disappointing :(17:39
kfxI like the e61 but I don't like closed-source stuff17:39
kfxand now that I've messed with maemo I hope nokia drops symbian for it, to be honest17:40
kfxmoblin looks like it'll be a tough competitor17:40
kfxbut since it's linux, we can just steal all the good stuff :D17:40
lbtso where is flikrdemo?17:41
amrthe n800 doesnt have the keyboard does it?17:41
amri can get them for ~60 by the looks of it17:41
lbtthat's a lot... keep looking17:42
amrid rather just get the n81017:42
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amrif i can get it for 120 ill probs go for it17:42
lbtnah, the new one's just coming out17:43
lbtthen prices will plummet17:43
amrhow soon is the new one coming out17:43
lbtcouple weeks maybe17:43
amroh thats alright then17:43
lbtor couple months17:43
lbtor maybe longer17:43
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lbtfiferboy: flickrdemo is building for Mer17:45
fiferboylbt: Nice17:46
Jaffaamr: If I knew when the new one was coming out, I'd sell you my N810 ;-)17:47
gentooerare there any phones based on maemo?17:49
lbtfreerunner can run Mer17:49
fiferboylbt: I am going to try to do a build of your branch so I can play around with some things like accessor functions17:49
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lbtnothing committed anywhere yet17:49
lbt... but did you see the gitorious comments17:50
lbton qt4-dev17:50
fiferboyYou could have your own patch branch17:51
lbtand a Mer branch that bases on maemo + extra cherries17:51
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fiferboyI wonder how soon that will happen.17:53
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fiferboylbt: How many source files do you touch with your changes?17:53
lbtit used to be 217:53
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lbtnow I think 4-517:53
lbtit's in a branch in local git repo though17:54
fiferboyYou could send me those file and I could apply them to my SVN checkout, but then we would have no way to sync changes...17:55
lbtjust looking at the repo I have17:57
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lbtit's incremental over basic fingerscrolling17:58
lbtI'll send it anyway17:59
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fiferboyThanks, I doubt I'll be able to make any useful contributions anyways ;)18:01
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amrJaffa, sell me it anyway18:03
fiferboylbt: Got it, thanks!18:04
fiferboyThis is going to be a painful build, so we'll see if I even get it fully compiled.18:04
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fiferboylbt: In theory if I am just interested in files, I should be able to build without XML, webkit, SQL, etc correct?18:13
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lbtfiferboy: yes18:22
lbtnot using the debian buildpkg approach18:22
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lbtyou may want to run debuild and then stop it when it starts to compile18:23
lbtthen find the build dir and cd to BUILD/src/gui18:23
lbtand run a make there18:23
lbtshould produce ../libGui.so18:23
fiferboyAh, that sounds like a good start.18:23
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fiferboylbt: I'll stop bugging you now and let you get back to the job hunt.18:24
fiferboyGood luck with that, I know it's never fun.18:25
lbtNP... jobs was this morning18:25
lbtI have to polish up a CV for a role for tomorrow but that's all18:25
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GAN800kfx, Moblin is targetting netbooks, not tabkets18:30
kfxGAN800: moblin's ui would work just as well as hildon on a tablet, I think18:31
fiferboylbt: I've started the compile.  I should be able to tell you by the end of the week if it was successful ;)18:32
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Jaffakfx: The screenshots of Moblin 2.0 at 1024x600 have tiny little controls which'd suck on a tablet18:36
JaffaI get pissed off with the current time selector, so I might kill someone if they got smaller and more fiddly (even with a stylus)18:37
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mib_d22bkdis there somebody?18:37
mgedminthere is somebody out there18:38
JaffaI thought it was just us chickens18:38
mgedmin*chirp* *chirp*, say the crickets18:39
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mib_d22bkdhi, i am back again18:48
mib_d22bkddoes somebody can help me? my problem is...18:49
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mib_d22bkdi have install ubuntu on nokia n800 and it boots till 99% and stops18:49
mib_d22bkdwhat is wrong ?18:49
mgedminit stops18:50
mgedminI'm pretty sure that's wrong18:50
amrmoblin looks pretty cool18:50
mib_d22bkdi wanna to test ubuntu, after this i wil test other distros18:50
mib_d22bkdso, anybody can help me?18:51
mgedmindo you get any startup messages, or just a splash screen?18:51
mib_d22bkdsplash screen and progress bar on bottom is going till around. 99%18:51
mgedmincan you try booting in rescue mode to see what's happening?18:52
mgedminhow long did you wait? maybe it's still busy doing something?18:52
mgedminthe ubuntu progress bar is not very reliable, in my observation18:52
mib_d22bkdok, i wil find how to boot in rescue, then i will tell whats wrong18:53
mgedminooh, 10 minutes certainly ought to be enough18:53
lbtmib_d22bkd: you know that Mer is essentially ubuntu 9.04 for N8x0 don't you?18:53
mgedminlbt: that's a good tagline; I never considered it in that way before18:54
lbtbut actually optimised to work18:54
mib_d22bkdhmm... but, is Mer has polish-locale?18:54
lbtthe main dev has a polish girlfriend...18:54
mib_d22bkdok, i have rescue mode, what now?18:55
mib_d22bkdactive console on framebuffer?18:56
mib_d22bkdok, its boot in console... waiting; ]18:57
amroh bugger it18:57
amrim buying this n81018:57
amrwith SD card and mini usb cable18:57
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mib_d22bkdok, i found that xserver canot open (/etc/default/x-derver.defs)18:58
mgedminis that a problem?  there's no such file on my laptop18:58
mib_d22bkdi found this (It might be that the xserver doesn't start, download this file (xorg.conf that Mer uses) and put it in /etc/X11/ and see if it helps)18:59
mib_d22bkdmay it help?18:59
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mib_d22bkdhmm... i wil go right now for testing...19:00
GAN800kfx, what Jaffa said, it's aint no mobile UI.19:00
amri know this is a 'go google it' question19:01
amrbut are there any decent mail clients that can handle exchange?19:01
amror OWA19:02
lbtoutlook is quite nice really19:02
amrfor maemo19:02
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lbtyou are aware they run linux?19:03
amryes of course i am19:03
lbtand exchange integration is a challenge on a full blown desktop?19:03
amri have no idea, i dont use linux on the desktop19:03
amrand last time i did, it was19:04
lbtand these devices have 128Mb of RAM19:04
amrare you just going to dance around the question all day?19:04
amrsimple really, is there a client i can use to connect to my OWA account so i dont have to use the shitty web client?19:04
kfxlbt is hinting at "no"19:06
amrthank you, simple enough19:06
kfxthe problem isn't limited to exchange19:06
lbt[17:01] <amr> i know this is a 'go google it' question  <--- so I was assuming you did and explained the background a bit...19:07
kfxI was looking at writing a small pim suite that would use EDS and sync to something non-google19:07
kfxbut there doesn't really appear to be a useable standard regarding the matter19:07
kfxwhich makes me less irked at google for reinventing the wheel with google calendar et al19:08
kfxbut still leaves me in the lurch19:08
lbtkfx gpe19:08
lbtand caldav19:08
lbtgpe uses ical now19:08
amryeah, my college has a google account set up so i can use university things19:08
amrbut i wouldnt have access to my main university mail19:08
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lbtand you can run egroupware with caldav19:08
kfxgpe is cumbersome and imo not suited for the tablet at all19:08
amri suppose i could just forward, like everyone else19:08
kfxit'd be less work to "fix" the pimlico tools than to fix gpe19:09
* lbt likes gpe-calendar much better than nothing19:09
* lbt would like qpe though...19:09
amrpart of my reasoning to get another tablet was how useful itd be while im at lectures19:09
amrmeans i dont have to bring my laptop to check things quickly19:09
amroh what am i talking about19:10
amrthe uni just added imap support, thats me sorted hah19:10
kfxdoes qt still treat c as a second-class language?19:10
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lbtrightly so19:11
kfxyeah, not interested19:11
kfxat least I can code gtk without clumsy object garbage19:11
lbtheh, welcome to the 90's19:11
kfxyuk it up, I remember when c++ was just a huge, ugly c preprocessor19:12
kfxand to a great extent it hasn't gotten any better19:12
* lcuk keeps pondering examining cfront19:12
lbtyeah... OO will never catch on... dunno what I'm thinking19:13
kfxiirc cfront died because it didn't do exception handling? I could be wrong about that19:13
luke-jrkfx: it's not a big deal if you code things correctly ;)19:14
luke-jreg, GUI is just an interface to a CLI app19:14
kfxI remember watching with great amusement as people wondered how to get cfront running, because it was written in c++, and you needed cfront to build it...19:14
lcuki have no qualms with oo - its very very good, but the butchering from qt to force c++ into runtime OO with meta info and stuff seems a bit ott19:14
luke-jrlcuk: Qt and C++ are two different languages19:14
kfxoo in general is okay for tremendously huge projects with dozens of developers19:14
luke-jrQt is to C++ what C++ is to C19:14
kfxbut for most applications that level of abstraction is just a waste of time19:15
lbt(nb they are the ones that actually hire people BTW)19:15
lcuki have to agree19:15
timeless_mbpluke-jr: um19:15
timeless_mbpQt:C++ :: GObject:C19:16
timeless_mbpthey both hack the language so much that it isn't the language you thought you knew19:16
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: no comment on GTK, I don't touch it19:16
timeless_mbpluke-jr:i have no love for any of them19:16
lcukqt is actually c++ with some mashing to force it to make meta info available - generically runtime type info isnt available i think19:16
timeless_mbpand i'm picking GObject not GTK19:16
luke-jrC++ has an entirely different stdlib, and a few syntax changes (from C)19:17
luke-jrQt likewise, has an entirely different stdlib, and a few syntax changes (from C++)19:17
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: GObject is part of GTK19:17
lcukmind you, every library has its isms19:17
lcukits whether or not it requires language retraining19:17
* kfx decides to write all his maemo stuff with xlib19:18
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: I draw the line when "Hello World" changes19:18
timeless_mbpluke-jr: it's a building block19:18
timeless_mbpyou can build something that doesn't resemble or relate to GTK from GObject19:18
luke-jrif a glib "Hello World" is different from a C "Hello World", then fine19:19
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luke-jrbut I consider GObject/glib to be part of GTK19:19
timeless_mbpwhat's the fremantle widget set called? :)19:19
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timeless_mbpoh, Clutter!19:20
Stskeepsluke-jr: you consider gconf part of GTK :P19:21
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luke-jrStskeeps: no, I consider gconf part of GNOME19:21
timeless_mbpare MAFW and Clutter part of GTK?19:21
luke-jr[I] gnome-base/gconf19:22
luke-jr     Description:         Gnome Configuration System and Daemon19:22
Jaffaluke-jr: GObject/glib is a separate project. I can write a Vala program depending on glib with no libgtk dependency19:23
kfxoh lord, gconf19:23
timeless_mbpluke-jr: it's true that historically GObject was written for use by GTK19:23
timeless_mbpbut w/ time it is possible to distinguish them19:23
kfxgconf is the result of the gnome devs seeing the windows registry and thinking "what a great idea"19:23
timeless_mbpkfx: and getting it all wrong :)19:24
kfxnot like there's a way to get that right19:24
timeless_mbpms's impl isn't really that bad19:24
luke-jrJaffa: they're the same in my book19:24
luke-jrI want neither on my PC19:24
derftimeless_mbp: Have you ever tried to _use_ MS's API, though?19:24
timeless_mbpderf: yes19:24
kfxthe whole idea is nasty19:24
derfIt is abominable.19:24
timeless_mbpkfx: you prefer each app to have its own private arbitrary settings format19:25
timeless_mbpwhich it randomly misplaces throughout your file system?19:25
derfgconf's implementation may suck, but at least I can write code for it in a reasonable manner.19:25
kfxtimeless_mbp: don't put words in my mouth19:25
timeless_mbpderf: *cough*19:25
kfxI prefer programs to have configuration settings editable without a gui19:25
timeless_mbpthe gconf consuming code i've read is awful19:25
kfxand furthermore, if the program puts its config in the wrong place, patch the source to fix it19:25
timeless_mbpkfx: oh sure, that works well for mathematica19:26
timeless_mbpor a large project19:26
kfxI don't use mathematica for reasons like this19:26
timeless_mbpi'm not claiming mathematica uses the registry19:26
luke-jrif we have a centralized registry, at least make it not have crappy dependencies19:26
timeless_mbpit probably doesn't, it's merely a way for me to avoid singling out the usual suspects19:26
kfxany program too poorly-written to be brought in line doesn't run on my servers, fully stop19:26
timeless_mbpkfx: i presume you don't run apache :)19:27
kfxapache can be brought in line19:27
kfxI don't run, for instance, netbeans19:27
* timeless_mbp shrugs19:28
kfxit was a long fight to get the department to migrate away from it, too19:28
timeless_mbpto what, eclipse?19:28
kfxbut it's the 21st century and I don't have to tolerate shoddy design19:28
kfxto geany19:28
timeless_mbpafaict, geany isn't in the same league19:28
lcuktimeless_mbp, what do you prefer coding in19:28
kfxit's not19:28
lcukdeep in the bowels of c?19:28
timeless_mbpwhich isn't to say one league is better than another19:28
timeless_mbplcuk: notepad - javascript19:29
amranyone here use boingo ?19:29
kfxbut our job is to teach programming, not to teach students how to stitch java libraries together19:29
derfAFAICT, the 21st century has even more shoddy design than the 20th.19:29
lcukewwww js19:29
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Jaffakfx: University?19:29
timeless_mbplcuk: js = lightweight, and you get cool JITs today19:29
kfxJaffa: yeah19:29
timeless_mbpkfx: for a uni... i dunno... it depends on the kind of project19:30
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timeless_mbpi used Netbeans (and even did some qa/testing/etc w/ it) 8+years ago19:30
kfxI think you'll find the more advanced a student gets into computer science the less she makes use of huge piles of IDE19:30
timeless_mbpin college19:30
kfxat least in the unix wprld19:30
* timeless_mbp shrugs19:30
timeless_mbpi use notepad or equivalents most of the time19:30
kfxif notepad could display line numbers it would be great19:31
timeless_mbphowever, i will use an IDE (XCode, msdev, netbeans)19:31
timeless_mbpkfx: ctrl-g will tell you the current line number19:31
timeless_mbp(as long as you turn off line wrap)19:31
kfxI'm to the point where I can't use a text editor that doesn't support regular expressions19:31
* Jaffa wouldn't do any professional programming without an IDE (even if it's just to manage a collection of files, syntax highlighting, Java/perldoc lookup and present some svn info) these days19:31
kfxbut I'm pretty far gone19:31
timeless_mbpkfx: i do most of my regexp's w/ perl19:32
timeless_mbpi can write regexps in msdev or xcode or whatever19:32
timeless_mbpbut inevitably i have to learn that stupid app's variation of regexps19:32
timeless_mbpwhich isn't worth it19:32
timeless_mbpthe app will tell me if the file changed on disk and offer to reload19:32
kfxvi does enough for me19:32
timeless_mbp(yay IDE!)19:32
kfxif I'm hacking on something huge I'll use vim with taglist19:33
timeless_mbpfwiw, i often use vi, but really vi, not vim19:33
timeless_mbpfor me, vi is basically notepad19:33
timeless_mbpi don't use visual mode19:33
kfxcommand mode is where it's at19:33
timeless_mbpi use a very limited feature set (find, delete, go to line)19:33
timeless_mbpi liked edlin :)19:34
* timeless_mbp wonders if anyone here even remembers that!19:34
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kfxusing edlin meant you were probably going to have to screw with DOS interrupts19:34
kfxI do not miss that world, even a little19:34
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* timeless_mbp shrugs19:36
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* Stskeeps yawns19:43
luke-jrJaffa: most of those features you listed don't need an IDE ;P19:45
Jaffaluke-jr: Most text editors have IDE-like features in them now :-p19:45
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GAN800The capped CSS headers need to go.20:12
GAN800It's too dumb and it makes us look like idiots when shows up.20:13
GAN800Particularly bad on Planet.20:13
Stskeepswhat, cos it's ;)20:13
amrn810 is on its way :)20:13
amrbetter start finding the crucial apps to isntall20:14
Stskeepsamr: consider your life forever changed ;)20:14
amrwell, i had a 770 but that had a rather short life20:14
amrwhat with 2 WSODs :p20:14
GAN800amr, list is on the wiki.20:14
GAN800Get somebody who's not currently on a tablet to locate it for you. ;)20:14
amrhah, its ok20:15
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amrgot it20:15
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coldbootHow can I find out what version of Qt is in Chinook?20:18
coldbootI can't find libqtcore4 anywhere in the repositories.20:18
coldbootI don't have Chinook installed, I already have Diablo on all of my devices.20:18
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timeless_mbpcoldboot: um20:20
timeless_mbpQt was never shipped by Nokia20:20
coldbootFound it20:20
timeless_mbpso the version would be Undefined20:20
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GAN800Whatever's in Chinook Extras.20:21
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coldbootIt's in extras-devel20:21
GAN800timeless_mbp, how do you feel about bug feeds on the bugzilla index page?20:22
timeless_mbpnot opposed20:22
timeless_mbpnot sure how useful it is for an average visitor20:22
GAN800Well, the thing that bothers me about bug trackers is that there's no obvious way to get started for new users.20:23
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coldbootIt seems Diablo has qt here:
GAN800You can search (for what?) or file a bug.20:23
coldbootBut Chinook doesn't have Qt at all...20:23
GAN800coldboot, Chinook is old and lame.20:24
coldbootI'm trying to install an older version of Qt.20:24
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GAN800Anyway, bug feeds sort of give you somerthing obvious to start with.20:25
timeless_mbpGAN800: we're hunting dinner20:27
timeless_mbpi don't mind a feed20:27
GAN800The current situation feels a bit like visiting and only having a search box and a toolbar.20:27
timeless_mbpbut how do you pick a feed?20:27
timeless_mbpbugs filed today?20:27
timeless_mbppopular bugs?20:27
* GAN800 just had leftover pasta for lunch.20:27
timeless_mbpold bugs?20:27
timeless_mbpkeep in mind that if you offer popular bugs, you're encouraging "me too"syndrome20:28
GAN8005-10 most recent, then 5-10 severity/priority/something.20:28
timeless_mbpi'm not sure how to write that query20:29
timeless_mbpbut ok :)20:29
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GAN800Most recent would be good enough for me, honestly.20:29
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coldbootWhere can you get gnu make from on the nokia n810?21:31
luke-jrprobably depends on OS21:31
luke-jrit's included with Gentoo21:31
coldbootYeah it's fine on my system, but Maemo Diablo doesn't seem to have gnu make in its repository.21:32
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inzcoldboot, sure it is there21:32
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AStormjeremiah_, how it's going with the port? :)21:32
coldbootinz: What repositories do you have setup in /etc/apt/sources.list?21:33
inzcoldboot, the one you can find make from is diablo/tools free21:34
Stskeepslo andrewfblack :)21:35
Stskeepshow is it going?21:35
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andrewfblacknot back just finished  update to minimalist 2.021:35
andrewfblackI think most people will be happy now21:35
coldbootinz: That's exactly it, it says "no installation candidate" when I already had that line in my sources.list.21:37
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inzcoldboot, well make can be found in
Stskeepsandrewfblack: is it possible to satisfy people? :P21:39
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coldbootinz: You just do "apt-get install make", right?21:41
coldbootSo it's in the sdk, then.21:44
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fiferboylbt: That builds really quickly now21:50
fiferboyNow to test if the .so file works on the device...21:50
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fiferboyLess than five minutes after the initial build if I only change one file.21:52
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lbtfiferboy: is that using scratchbox?22:01
fiferboylbt: Yes, in a virtualbox session22:02
lbtI'm using qemu and it's a fair bit longer but not silly22:02
fiferboyBut I may have goofed.  The latest SVN is qt 4.5.1, and I only have 4.5.0 on my tablet22:02
lbthmm no, 1 file is about 5 minutes22:02
fiferboyIt is complaining about different library versions22:03
lbtheh - I have the advantage that I'm eating my own dogfood...22:03
ProteousMmmm, dogfood22:03
fiferboyYes, I didn't want to build all the packages so I am caught22:03
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fiferboyI may have to rollback my svn checkout to 4.5.0 and start over22:04
fiferboyUnless Antonio has the 4.5.1 packages building for tonight22:04
coldbootWhy does the vim installed on a nokia n810 not have working home and end keys?22:05
coldbootA lot of the keys are mapped wrong.22:05
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kfxcoldboot: it's not vim, it's vi, and the keys are like that because the n810 doesn't have a proper TERMCAP22:07
lbtfiferboy: it's not so bad... a build takes overnight in sbox on a quick machine IIRC22:08
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coldbootkfx: I've installed Vim, confirmed Vim 7.1, and it's still got messed up keys.22:08
coldbootkfx: I'm also sshed in.22:09
fiferboylbt: I have left a build going over night, and it eventually get to the last mega-linking stage and sits there for about four hours22:09
fiferboyI have never gotten past that.22:09
lbthmmm .... more memory22:09
lbtI bet your virtualbox is swapping in the link phase22:09
kfxcoldboot: do echo $TERM22:10
lbtwhy use virtualbox?22:10
fiferboyI don't have enough memory to give virtualbox22:10
fiferboyBecause I have a Windows laptop (work) and an x64 Linux home machine.22:10
coldbootkfx: I changed it to xterm, because it was set to screen, what should it be?22:10
fiferboyI have never gotten scratchbox to work in x6422:10
kfxcoldboot: not sure, I don't have my device on me22:11
kfxbut vim uses $TERM to decide all kinds of stuff, including keymappings22:11
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coldbootkfx: It's set to xterm by default, which is messed up.22:12
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lbtfiferboy: worth checking out qemu at home then22:19
lbtthe binaries I send you are from the OBS based builder for Mer22:20
fiferboylbt: I will check it out.  Especially now that you have Qt compiling without scratchbox detects22:20
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fiferboylbt: Did you follow the QEMU N8x0 presentation to get set up?22:24
Stskeepsfiferboy: we actually use full user-level emulation of ARM in general, it talks directly to host kernel :)22:24
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fiferboyStskeeps: Is there any documentation on setting this up?  I presume it is for Mer purposes?22:25
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Macerbeing a safe driver has finally paid off22:26
fiferboylbt: Thanks22:26
Macerinstead of having to go to the hell known as the dmv. i was able to renew my license online and get a sticker to put on the back of it :)22:26
Macernot sure if anybody has ever read dante. where he reaches the 8th ring and has sees the people standing in the eternal dmv line22:27
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Stskeepshehe, probably the people working at dmv :P22:32
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inzcoldboot, ah, tools/sdk, yes, that's what I meant to write22:43
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inzcoldboot, 'twas a thinko22:43
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coldbootGood one22:48
MacerStskeeps: no. the workers are the demons22:49
Maceri don't know how the dmv is there.. but here it is hell incarnate22:49
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Macerit used to be worse when i first got my license. if you got to the dmv 2 hours before it opened. there would be a line going around the block. and that is just the PRE line22:49
Maceryou go through this 3 hours line.. and arrive at the center desk for judgement22:50
Macerand there are 3 places you can go.. dante described them all22:50
Macerone is you get to go into this "express line" which for whatever reason i never learned what virtues you must have to be placed into this blessed line22:50
Macerthe other option is another 5 hour line where you move at the rate of 1 person per every 10 minutes (purgatory)22:51
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amrn810 bought and paid for22:52
Maceroption 3 is that you do not have the proper paperwork and wind up having to go home and can either make the attempt to come back the same day or just bring it the next day where they find something else is wrong (hell)22:52
lbtwow.... we go for a test when we're 16/17 and renew our license when we're nearly blind22:52
lbttakes 30 mins22:52
lbtonce... ever22:52
Macerlbt: well.. it isn't so bad here anymore. it's around a 4 hour adventure.. but about 6 years ago it was an all day affair22:52
lbtlive free ... die old and in a line22:53
Macerlbt: yup22:53
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lbtand not so much of the live free these days ;)22:53
Macerwait.. let me check my threat level widget22:53
Maceryup. still yellow :)22:53
lbtyellow.... scared22:53
Macerwhat a load of shit22:53
Maceryello = "significant risk of terrorist attack"22:54
Macerit has been yellow or higher since 200122:54
Maceri wonder if tsa runs the terror meter22:54
Maceri tell you. this profit off fear this is the ultimate racket22:57
Stskeepsold and proven though22:58
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lbtthis one:
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coldbootCan you download built versions of Qt for maemo?23:09
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coldbootI want to get Qt 4.4 instead of 4.5 that comes with Diablo.23:09
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RazumihinIs there any alternative mapping programs besides the maemo mapper?23:18
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zs "Use of internet tablet to control Lego Mindstorms NXT mobile robot" is this sentence correct?23:19
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luke-jrRazumihin: there is not a single good mapping program, it seems :<23:22
luke-jrcoldboot: IIRC, Qt 4.4 doesn't work on ARM23:22
coldbootIt's in the maemo repository...23:22
Pavlovi'm pretty sure i built qt on arm about 9 or 10 months ago23:23
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fiferboylbt: I rolled SVN back to 4.5.0 for the time being.  I will try QEMU sometime later.23:24
lbtmaybe post gitorious ?23:24
fiferboyI'm going to play around with some of the default values, and maybe look at writing accessors.23:24
lbtyou could start that off if you wanted...23:25
fiferboylbt: Probably.23:25
fiferboyI saw you glance my way in that email.23:25
fiferboyI'll have to read up on GIT, I'm really not familiar with CVS/SVN/GIT past a simple checkout23:26
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lbtah, I thought you were23:26
lbtwell, the docs are good ;)23:26
fiferboyI'll take a look at them.23:26
fiferboyI might as well learn SOME version control system.23:27
fiferboyThanks.  I'll look at it tonight.  I'll probably solicite advice from the mailing list if I am going to start something.23:28
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Macerugh i hate ncis without kate23:28
Macerit isn't as funny anymore23:28
Macerwhat a let down23:28
fiferboylbt: I'll talk to you about it tomorrow, no doubt.23:30
fiferboyI've got to go now.23:30
lbtl8r then23:30
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luke-jrdoes the N810 mic totally suck?23:37
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Razumihinafaik not.23:38
RazumihinHavent tried it lately though.23:38
luke-jrmaybe just the driver then23:38
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Razumihintry using alsamixer :)23:39
luke-jrI did23:39
luke-jrwhat am I supposed to change?23:39
RazumihinI think the first capture device is the mic23:39
RazumihinWait a sec i open it up.23:39
luke-jr80 different settings in alsamixer23:39
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luke-jrRazumihin: I managed to get the mic, but with a significant delay and crappy quality23:40
RazumihinMic1 is the mic volume23:40
Razumihinhmm... dunno. tried rebooting? That helps for sound problems for me.23:40
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luke-jrthere is no Mic123:42
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Razumihinhmm... i have :P23:42
RazumihinN810 and latest firmware.23:43
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RazumihinMy alsamixer is running on chrooted debian as far as i remember...23:43
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luke-jrRazumihin: whatever "latest firmware" means23:44
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RazumihinDon't remember the version ;) But i reinstalled OS2008 half a month ago :)23:45
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GAN800lardman, ping?23:49
GAN800if any Talk mods are around, can you lock the New browser thread?23:49
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lardmanGAN800: pong23:52
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GAN800lardman, can you lock the New browser thread?23:52
lardmanyeah hang on23:53
luke-jrRazumihin: so Maemo stuff23:54
luke-jr <-- my mixer things23:54
lardmanis there a problem with the content? Looks quite civalised to me...?23:54
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GAN800lardman, gravedig23:57
GAN800Filled with old irrelevant information that doesn't need bumping.23:57
GAN800Poster should start a new thread or find something recent.23:57
lardmanok, I understand that, but it doens't do any harm23:58
lardmanif they want to rant in there, let them I say23:58
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lardmanI'm happy to close a thread if it's turned personal, etc., but if they just want to dredge up the past then let them I say23:58
lardmanMy apologies23:58
GAN800It's a dead thread that doesn't need to be restarted.23:58
lardmanah, I see23:59
GAN800Meh, reported it, somebody else will do my bidding.23:59

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