| StsN800 | RST38x, to feed upon! | 00:00 |
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| RST38x | Sts: We'll never know... | 00:00 |
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| jaem_N810 | hey folks | 00:40 |
| jaem_N810 | has anyone seen Wolfram|Alpha yet? | 00:40 |
| Myrtti | who *hasn't*? | 00:41 |
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| * jaem_N810 is late to the party | 00:41 | |
| jaem_N810 | apparently | 00:41 |
| jaem_N810 | although, @Myrtti, I can think of lots of people | 00:41 |
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| mgedmin | I heard about it, but haven't seen it | 00:44 |
| jaem_N810 | it's pretty cool | 00:44 |
| mgedmin | well, ok, I've seen screenshots | 00:44 |
| mgedmin | haven't tried using it | 00:44 |
| jaem_N810 | it still has a long way to, as they admit | 00:45 |
| jaem_N810 | but it can do a lot already | 00:45 |
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| mavhc | needs more recent data | 00:50 |
| luke-jr | INPUT! | 00:51 |
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| mavhc | gigabytes of input! | 00:51 |
| mgedmin | the sample page for the ISS position cannot make up its mind whether it's over China or Australia | 00:53 |
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| VDVsx | lcuk, ping | 00:55 |
| Macer | man i love this server with nexenta on it | 00:56 |
| Macer | well... more so zfs than nexenta | 00:57 |
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| Macer | i think i really want to try out fbsd on it and see how well the zfs stuff works with that also | 00:57 |
| Macer | but im getting sustained topped out gbit connections :) | 00:57 |
| tds5016 | hello all. | 00:57 |
| tds5016 | is there anyone here that is a python developer on the maemo device? | 00:57 |
| tds5016 | I need help with a uuid problem. | 00:57 |
| tds5016 | namely, that uuid tries to call ifconfig. | 00:58 |
| tds5016 | which it needs to be root to do. | 00:58 |
| tds5016 | BUT I can't/don't want to have it run as root. | 00:58 |
| mgedmin | tds5016: you don't need to be root to run ifconfig | 00:58 |
| mgedmin | well, it's not in your $PATH by default | 00:59 |
| mgedmin | but you can run /sbin/ifconfig | 00:59 |
| tds5016 | hmm, why doesn't it show up for me unless I'm root? | 00:59 |
| mgedmin | it's a good question | 00:59 |
| mgedmin | what error do you get? | 00:59 |
| tds5016 | hmm, apparently it does work? | 01:00 |
| tds5016 | if I give it the absolute path. | 01:00 |
| tds5016 | uuid won't get it thoguh :-/. | 01:00 |
| lcuk | \o VDVsx | 01:00 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, just tried your liqbase playtest :P | 01:01 |
| lcuk | were you in performance mode :$ | 01:01 |
| lcuk | and did you run the script rather than the all in one mega one | 01:01 |
| tds5016 | shite. | 01:01 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, the screen flick's in some of the mini app, but is very cool :P | 01:02 |
| lcuk | run it again | 01:02 |
| tds5016 | mgedmin: it just returns a different mac address each time. | 01:02 |
| lcuk | it wont flicker | 01:02 |
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| tds5016 | I'm pretty sure it's failing, because I THINK the eigth bit returns as a 1. | 01:02 |
| lcuk | thats a known bug which will have a known fix by the time the package will come | 01:02 |
| tds5016 | which is what should happen. | 01:02 |
| jaem_N810 | Macer: I'd thought of trying Nexenta, but my question was ... Why? It seems like an odd idea | 01:03 |
| lcuk | (some n810s cannot handle drawing 800*480 without flicker on the FIRST run after a reboot) | 01:03 |
| mgedmin | tds5016: what version of python do you have? | 01:03 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, will reboot, my brother is drawing a rabbit right now, lol | 01:03 |
| lcuk | heh in liqbase? | 01:03 |
| jaem_N810 | lcuk: is this a new version you're talking about? | 01:03 |
| lcuk | you dont need to reboot | 01:03 |
| lcuk | you need to just run again :) | 01:03 |
| lcuk | yeah jaem_N810 | 01:03 |
| jaem_N810 | ooh | 01:03 |
| lcuk | i have a shaky playtest | 01:03 |
| jaem_N810 | has it hit extras-devl? | 01:03 |
| jaem_N810 | devel* | 01:04 |
| lcuk | not even close | 01:04 |
| jaem_N810 | lol | 01:04 |
| tds5016 | mgedmin: 2.5 on the maemo | 01:04 |
| lcuk | this is for a specific reason | 01:04 |
| mgedmin | tds5016: apt-cache policy python2.5 | 01:04 |
| lcuk | when its ready there will be a package :) | 01:04 |
| lcuk | but not before | 01:04 |
| jaem_N810 | lcuk: okay :P | 01:04 |
| tds5016 | what is that? | 01:04 |
| mgedmin | a command that will tell you the exact package version | 01:04 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, ok, and I saw my ugly face in the program also:(, I gonna sue you :P | 01:04 |
| jaem_N810 | lcuk: can I get the source to play around with, at least? | 01:05 |
| lcuk | the heads are good :) | 01:05 |
| mgedmin | hm, uuid.py is actually uuid.pyc and it's hidden inside /usr/lib/python25.zip on my n810 | 01:05 |
| * jaem_N810 is a sucker for prerelease | 01:05 | |
| lcuk | the code handles any res there, i just did the heads cos i wanna be able to start talking to you | 01:05 |
| tds5016 | mgedmin: it's in .zip for me, as well. | 01:05 |
| jaem_N810 | pre-pre-pre-alpha? Why not?! | 01:05 |
| lcuk | the sketch button should eventually open a sketch based conversation window (with txt as well) | 01:05 |
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| coldboot | Does anyone here do Qt development? | 01:05 |
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| lcuk | yes coldboot lbt and some others | 01:06 |
| lcuk | and they are very good at it :) | 01:06 |
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| lcuk | VDVsx, did you see how quick and smooth the kinetics on the calendar are ? :$ | 01:07 |
| lcuk | or were you not in performance mode ? (me curses that mode) | 01:07 |
| coldboot | I'm getting flickering when you click anything derived from QAbstractItemView on the n810, but not in scratchbox. | 01:07 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, as root: echo performance >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor | 01:07 |
| tds5016 | mgedmin: any ideas? | 01:07 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, yaeh very, I only ran the script | 01:08 |
| coldboot | It only happens on the first click, and it happens even if it's a blank QAbstractTableView with no model set. | 01:08 |
| lcuk | coldboot, have you checked the known bugs on the maemo qt4 garage page | 01:08 |
| mgedmin | tds5016: tell me the version of your python2.5 package | 01:08 |
| lcuk | or in the maemo bugzilla | 01:08 |
| coldboot | lcuk: I'll go look, thanks. | 01:08 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, i keep strumming it like a guitar | 01:08 |
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| tds5016 | installed: 2.5.2-losso4 | 01:08 |
| lcuk | i want audio | 01:08 |
| mgedmin | mine is 2.5.2-1osso2, and uuid works fine | 01:08 |
| tds5016 | mgedmin: | 01:08 |
| lcuk | we need a band with all the maemo instruments | 01:08 |
| coldboot | lcuk: What words other than "flicker" would probably be used? flash... | 01:08 |
| tds5016 | ugh, maybe I'm using it wrong? | 01:08 |
| mgedmin | so, something seems to be broken in the newer version | 01:09 |
| tds5016 | mgedmin: I'm on an n810. | 01:09 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 01:09 |
| mgedmin | so am I | 01:09 |
| lcuk | coldboot, just look for bugs involving your class? | 01:09 |
| mgedmin | I must've installed it months ago | 01:09 |
| lcuk | that might be a good start | 01:09 |
| tds5016 | mgedmin: run it several times. | 01:09 |
| mgedmin | I did | 01:09 |
| tds5016 | and make sure it consistently returns the same. | 01:09 |
| mgedmin | same, correct, MAC every time | 01:09 |
| tds5016 | with a different python process? | 01:09 |
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| mgedmin | ah, no, I haven't tried that | 01:09 |
| tds5016 | try that real quick, because that's where my error is :-) | 01:09 |
| lcuk | vdv, the calendar is editable you know.. | 01:09 |
| tds5016 | mgedmin: maybe I'm doing something wrong? can you show me what you have for it? | 01:10 |
| tds5016 | I just run: | 01:10 |
| tds5016 | import uuid | 01:10 |
| tds5016 | uuid.getnode() | 01:10 |
| tds5016 | print str(uuid.getnode()) | 01:10 |
| mgedmin | I ran python -c 'import uuid; print uuid.getnode()' 10 times, got the same value each time | 01:10 |
| tds5016 | yeah, try killing off that python instance, and running a new one? | 01:11 |
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| mgedmin | btw hex(uuid.getnode()) may be nicer, especially if you want to compare with the mac address shown in ifconfig | 01:11 |
| tds5016 | if it still works, I need something new :-) | 01:11 |
| mgedmin | did you see what I did? I ran a new python process every time | 01:11 |
| mgedmin | let me upgrade to 2.5.2-1osso4 | 01:11 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, can't figure out how to do that :P | 01:11 |
| coldboot | lcuk: Where are the known bugs on the garage page? Wouldn't they just be all in Bugzilla? | 01:12 |
| lcuk | /media/mmc1/_cal is required | 01:12 |
| lcuk | coldboot, i dunno ive been there once, i know they have a big list of bugs for qt | 01:12 |
| lcuk | it might be there, but bugzilla will tell you that | 01:12 |
| tds5016 | mgedmin: thanks for the help! :-) | 01:13 |
| mgedmin | gaah, ssh session timed out, silly AP | 01:13 |
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| lcuk | VDVsx, then once that folder exists clicking on the header (where the daynumber is) will show the editor | 01:13 |
| mgedmin | tds5016: works fine | 01:13 |
| mgedmin | ~ $ for n in `seq 10`; do python -c 'import uuid; print uuid.getnode()'; done | 01:13 |
| tds5016 | ugh. | 01:13 |
| mgedmin | same answer each time | 01:13 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, gonna try | 01:14 |
| coldboot | lcuk: There are 6 open bugs for Qt on the garage site... | 01:14 |
| tds5016 | try running python. | 01:14 |
| tds5016 | then running it. | 01:14 |
| tds5016 | then ctrl+d | 01:14 |
| tds5016 | then run it again. | 01:14 |
| tds5016 | tell me if you get the same? | 01:14 |
| mgedmin | I'm lazy | 01:14 |
| mgedmin | how is that going to be different from python -c '...' ? | 01:14 |
| tds5016 | (it might be something with the way I'm doing it? | 01:14 |
| tds5016 | well, it'll force a different process? | 01:14 |
| mgedmin | SO DOES PYTHON -C! | 01:14 |
| mgedmin | sorry for shouting | 01:14 |
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| jaem_n810_afk | Hey, zakkm1 | 01:15 |
| * lcuk laffs | 01:15 | |
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| tds5016 | mgedmin: okay, just wanted to make sure. | 01:15 |
| Macer | jaem_n810_afk: it goes pretty fast | 01:15 |
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| mgedmin | tds5016: why don't you try for n in `seq 10`; do python -c 'import uuid; print uuid.getnode()'; done and see if you get different results? | 01:15 |
| mgedmin | to make sure we're doing the same thing | 01:15 |
| zakkm1 | hey jaem | 01:15 |
| jaem_n810 | Macer: better than others, or just generally fast? | 01:15 |
| mgedmin | tds5016: maybe the problem is not with python but with something else? does /sbin/ifconfig return the same value always? | 01:17 |
| tds5016 | it should. would being on a vpn screw it up? | 01:17 |
| mgedmin | hm... maybe it picks up a different device? | 01:18 |
| mgedmin | maybe it picks a device *randomly* | 01:18 |
| mgedmin | hey, that makes sense -- it's generating an uuid | 01:18 |
| * mgedmin opens uuid.py on his laptop | 01:18 | |
| tds5016 | hmm. | 01:19 |
| * jaem_n810 is going grocery shopping | 01:20 | |
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| jaem_n810 | farewell | 01:20 |
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| mgedmin | no, it seems too be pretty deterministic... | 01:20 |
| tds5016 | oh, the issue is that it's on the vpn client. | 01:21 |
| tds5016 | damn. | 01:21 |
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| mgedmin | well, time for me to get some sleep | 01:21 |
| mgedmin | good luck! | 01:21 |
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| tds5016 | thanks man, that's what the issue is thoguh. | 01:21 |
| tds5016 | it's having issues with it being on the vpn :-) | 01:21 |
| tds5016 | can anyone else help me out with this issue? | 01:22 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, is possible to add widgets in the playground ? | 01:23 |
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| lcuk | the desktop managers eventual job will be to select them | 01:23 |
| lcuk | at this point, there is a command line syntax to select those running on startup | 01:23 |
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| VDVsx | lcuk, ok, np :) | 01:24 |
| lcuk | if you run vworld/vworld alone it enumerates and loads all widgets currently available | 01:24 |
| lcuk | this works best on a large format display that can handle many apps | 01:24 |
| lcuk | our tablets run better with 4-9 :) | 01:25 |
| tds5016 | blast I think mgedmin was the only one willing to help. haha. | 01:27 |
| tds5016 | :-( | 01:27 |
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| Macer | hm | 01:56 |
| Macer | guess he left :) | 01:56 |
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| tds5016 | Can someone tell me how to force uuid to grab a specific mac address in python? | 02:40 |
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| tds5016 | hmm, how do I set the hostname on maemo? | 03:25 |
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| kfx | tds5016: same as any other linux system | 03:47 |
| kfx | echo my_new_hostname > /etc/hostname | 03:47 |
| tds5016 | oh. nice. | 03:47 |
| tds5016 | haha, I was thinking it was in hosts. | 03:47 |
| tds5016 | ;-) | 03:47 |
| tds5016 | good call. thanks! | 03:47 |
| kfx | np :) | 03:47 |
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| luke-jr | grr | 03:58 |
| tds5016 | damn. how do I get to the special characters on the n810? | 03:58 |
| tds5016 | haha. | 03:58 |
| luke-jr | why does my N810 shutdown if I unplug the power cable? | 03:58 |
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| nomis | luke-jr: battery empty? | 04:01 |
| luke-jr | nomis: it's been on the charger for hours | 04:01 |
| luke-jr | and turning it back on works | 04:01 |
| nomis | and the battery status indicator shows its fully charged? | 04:02 |
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| luke-jr | nomis: I don't have such a battery status indicator | 04:04 |
| luke-jr | due to Nokia's stupid kernel using non-standard interfaces | 04:04 |
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| nomis | no idea then. | 04:05 |
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| tds5016 | if I change the hostname, should network connections freak out before a restart? | 04:10 |
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| elementz | hi all. i would like to have a look at os2008. what do i need to dl to run it in virtualbox? | 04:39 |
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| elementz | got it already. thx | 04:41 |
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| Macer | elementz: i used 2007 and 2008 and don't understand why people would stick with 2007 | 04:54 |
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| Bobbe | guys, what should I do when I run ./initfs_flash but it doesn't ask me anything and boots straight to the flash? | 05:19 |
| Bobbe | there's a command, I just don't remember what it is. Something with ask: | 05:19 |
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| Macer | go openoffice web site go | 05:33 |
| Macer | with your blinding 50K/s speeds! | 05:33 |
| kfx | they're just getting hou used to the operating speed of the softwzre | 05:34 |
| kfx | s/z/a/; | 05:34 |
| kfx | s/hou/youÂ/; | 05:34 |
| kfx | I need n810 typing practice :/ | 05:35 |
| Inf3kt4 | lol | 05:36 |
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| Inf3kt4 | yes i like tah fly kites | 06:45 |
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| Macer | hahhahah | 07:11 |
| Macer | omg ncis is a riot | 07:11 |
| Inf3kt4 | whats playing tonight | 07:17 |
| Inf3kt4 | whys ncis a riot | 07:18 |
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| Macer | rise of the lycans is already out on blue ray? | 07:45 |
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| RST38x | "No one wants to turn this thing on with the obvious exception of some of our D-Class sociopaths who would respond similarly to a large red button labeled EVERYTHING DIES." | 08:01 |
| luke-jr | noriko ~ # ./n8x0_cfgread wlan-mac 0 1 /dev/mtd1 2 | 08:12 |
| luke-jr | 00:1d:xx:xx:xx:xx | 08:12 |
| luke-jr | :D | 08:12 |
| StsN800 | reading is easy. writing isn't | 08:13 |
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| luke-jr | StsN800: I don't need to write to cfg | 08:15 |
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| luke-jr | the real problem now is that *$&#*($ stlc45xx-cal actually *does something* with the data | 08:15 |
| luke-jr | so my little toy is only really useful for setting the MAC address | 08:16 |
| luke-jr | ifconfig wlan0 hwaddr $(./n8x0_cfgread wlan-mac 0 1 /dev/mtd1ro 2) | 08:16 |
| StsN800 | heh | 08:17 |
| Macer | hm | 08:21 |
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| thux | morning | 09:32 |
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| Macer | ugh | 09:40 |
| Macer | installing cygwin ports is driving me nuts | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | cygwin = awkward | 09:40 |
| * Stskeeps watches smartq7 unboxing video | 09:40 | |
| Macer | Stskeeps: well.. it certainly is | 09:40 |
| Macer | i don't understand why i can't seem to find more on the subject | 09:40 |
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| mib_d22bkd | hello, is anybody here? | 09:41 |
| Stskeeps | sortof | 09:41 |
| mib_d22bkd | :) | 09:41 |
| mib_d22bkd | need help | 09:42 |
| mib_d22bkd | :) | 09:42 |
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| mib_d22bkd | i just bought n800 and i try to install ubuntu, | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | that's kinda advanced for a newbie :P | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/05/smart-devices-q7-unboxing-video | 09:42 |
| mib_d22bkd | going: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=27735 til the end | 09:42 |
| mib_d22bkd | but i have incompatible bootmenu problem, :( and in google i havent fount the answer | 09:43 |
| mib_d22bkd | nobody say in eady way how to fix it | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | incompatible bootmenu means you used a bad bootmenu initially to boot it. | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | or a bad item | 09:44 |
| mib_d22bkd | ok, so.. what bootmenu i need to use, and where to instal it... in maemo env. or chroot of ubuntu ? | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | you need to get the deblet boootmenu, the one that Mer uses, and then you need to set up the right .item, and be -sure- to have it contain ITEM_LINUXRC, and then you reinstall ubuntu all over :) | 09:45 |
| Myrtti | even though I love ubuntu a lot, I don't understand the benefits of installing it to mobile devices like NIT... | 09:45 |
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| Stskeeps | Myrtti: i don't get it either, but if they want a 3-4 hour laptop, sure.. :P | 09:46 |
| Myrtti | I should go and make coffee... | 09:46 |
| mib_d22bkd | ok, (about deblet bootmenu)... from where? :) .... / | 09:47 |
| Stskeeps | mib_d22bkd: what exactly do you need ubuntu for, btw? :P | 09:47 |
| Stskeeps | mib_d22bkd: and the deblet bootmenu is definately in the guide | 09:47 |
| mib_d22bkd | setting up the .item is easy | 09:47 |
| Stskeeps | if it's not, b-man needs a SEVERE beating. | 09:47 |
| mib_d22bkd | i wanna ubuntu to make translate my device to Polish language fully | 09:47 |
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| Myrtti | erm | 09:47 |
| Stskeeps | you mean have your device be in polish | 09:48 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: that things looks interesting | 09:48 |
| Myrtti | that's a pretty hard way of doing that | 09:48 |
| mib_d22bkd | yes... even aplications thar are available in polish in desctop ubuntu | 09:48 |
| Macer | 7"? | 09:48 |
| Macer | wow | 09:48 |
| Macer | that thing is a beast | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: yeah, there's a 4.3" and a 7" | 09:49 |
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| Macer | wow that thing is awesome | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | and it runs mer ;) | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | (when i compile the bootloader + kernel for it) | 09:49 |
| Macer | does it really??? | 09:49 |
| Macer | oh | 09:49 |
| Macer | lol | 09:49 |
| mib_d22bkd | Stskeeps: could you tel me from where i must get deblet bootmenu? | 09:49 |
| Macer | i thought you meant they were selling it with it :) | 09:50 |
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| Macer | no qwerty? | 09:50 |
| Macer | ubuntu arm? | 09:51 |
| mib_d22bkd | Stskeeps: use bootmenu from http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation#N8x0_Install ? | 09:51 |
| Macer | it's running gnome? | 09:52 |
| Macer | fail | 09:52 |
| Macer | haha | 09:52 |
| mib_d22bkd | is the "Incompatible bootmenu" on ubuntu wil diapear when i use "Install bootmenu" from Mer? | 09:53 |
| Macer | and fail with the keyboard not resizing the windows | 09:53 |
| Macer | :) | 09:53 |
| Macer | it looked good until it started to run Stskeeps | 09:54 |
| Macer | lol... and it runs slow as shit. the only thing it has going for it is that the screen is a nice size | 09:55 |
| mib_d22bkd | anybody could told me that is a god point or not? Install Boot Menu from MER? | 09:55 |
| Stskeeps | mib_d22bkd: yes, it is | 09:56 |
| Stskeeps | mib_d22bkd: but you need to reinstall ubuntu afterwards | 09:56 |
| Stskeeps | totally | 09:56 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: yeah, sw is shite | 09:56 |
| Stskeeps | machine is faster than n800 though | 09:56 |
| Myrtti | COFFFEEEEEEEEEE | 09:56 |
| Macer | it sure is | 09:56 |
| Macer | on paper it is ;) | 09:56 |
| Stskeeps | nah, Mer runs really speedy on it | 09:56 |
| Macer | yeah but... | 09:56 |
| Macer | no qwerty | 09:57 |
| mib_d22bkd | stskeeps: ok, very thnx, before that i must reflash to default os2008 :) becouse i have DESTROY to much ;] | 09:57 |
| Macer | i refuse to buy another thing without a qwerty :) | 09:57 |
| Stskeeps | yea, but you can plug in a usb keyboard | 09:57 |
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| Stskeeps | which is also kinda powerful | 09:57 |
| Stskeeps | also, 7" isn't something i want to carry around | 09:57 |
| Stskeeps | (no usb hub needed) | 09:57 |
| Macer | naw.. that's not too bad | 09:57 |
| mib_d22bkd | thnx, for everything, i will go try it now, and be back to tell how it goes | 09:57 |
| Macer | i mean you would need some pretty large pockets | 09:57 |
| Macer | :) | 09:57 |
| mib_d22bkd | bye | 09:57 |
| Stskeeps | mib_d22bkd: be aware that the ubuntu port is entirely unsupported except by the author :P | 09:57 |
| mib_d22bkd | Stskeeps: ok, i will look how it works, if it will not that good as i thing, i will install easy-deb on maemo ;] | 09:59 |
| mib_d22bkd | thnx | 09:59 |
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| thux | so many x86 linux distributions and so few armel linux distributions | 10:13 |
| macmaN6789 | well lookie there, another incompatible bootmenu guy | 10:13 |
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| StsN801 | macmaN6789, the instructions are full of failures and potential pitfalls.. there's a reason why we tried to make mer install painless | 10:19 |
| Macer | wow cygwin sucks | 10:19 |
| macmaN6789 | Macer: it does but its better than nothing | 10:20 |
| Macer | heh | 10:20 |
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| Macer | well.. it isn't that bad | 10:20 |
| Macer | but it should have a commanline pkg manager | 10:20 |
| macmaN6789 | absolutely | 10:20 |
| Macer | instead of having to run a damn win setup program | 10:20 |
| macmaN6789 | I was the same way :-o | 10:20 |
| Macer | heh | 10:20 |
| Macer | i mean it was cool once.. but to do it over and over just to add pkgs? | 10:21 |
| Macer | does it even do dep checking? | 10:21 |
| macmaN6789 | getting apache to run was another omfg | 10:21 |
| Macer | or do you wind up running the setup a thousand times? | 10:21 |
| macmaN6789 | and in the end.. I couldn't | 10:21 |
| Macer | i wouldn't even try with this :) | 10:21 |
| macmaN6789 | it has deps | 10:21 |
| Macer | don't they have a native w32 apache anyways? | 10:21 |
| macmaN6789 | they do | 10:21 |
| macmaN6789 | but I thought id have a nice neat cygwin setup | 10:21 |
| Macer | oh.. so if i install something from the setup program it will install the apps? | 10:22 |
| macmaN6789 | yes it will | 10:22 |
| Macer | er.. deps | 10:22 |
| Macer | i meant :) | 10:22 |
| Macer | ok | 10:22 |
| macmaN6789 | apache for me ran into some stupid semaphore problem | 10:22 |
| Macer | i just kind of wanted to see if i could use some of the stuff | 10:22 |
| macmaN6789 | IPC stuff | 10:22 |
| Macer | i want to definately use it over the win shell | 10:22 |
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| macmaN6789 | yep, I'm sshing in and out | 10:22 |
| macmaN6789 | wgetting new windows apps | 10:22 |
| Macer | heh | 10:23 |
| macmaN6789 | screening a bit even, although that's a bit shaky | 10:23 |
| Macer | i'm sure it comes in handy .. i just can't stand this "have to run the setup program" thing it has going on | 10:23 |
| timeless_mbp | macmaN6789: anything, including nothing is better than cygwin | 10:23 |
| Macer | it's typical windows shit. where you change domains and you have to reboot :) | 10:23 |
| macmaN6789 | lol timeless_mbp | 10:23 |
| StsN801 | wasn't there microsofts services for unix too? | 10:24 |
| macmaN6789 | well when I got my mbp, that was also a "what no package manager, STILL" :-o | 10:24 |
| Macer | StsN801: yes | 10:24 |
| Macer | i used to use it for nfs | 10:24 |
| mavhc | windows apache used threads way before unix one did | 10:24 |
| macmaN6789 | StsN801: I think those are even less than nothing | 10:24 |
| Macer | found out samba was better and didn't suck as much ;) | 10:24 |
| Macer | did uid mapping also which was nice | 10:24 |
| Macer | uid and gid mappings to keep permissions | 10:25 |
| Macer | i think samba has a set mask for both | 10:25 |
| mavhc | there's package managers for mac, there's at least 3 for windows, but without open source software they can't not suck | 10:26 |
| Macer | mac has macports :) | 10:26 |
| Macer | which actually works quite well .. but i use it on my laptop so it doesn't serve much of a purpose | 10:27 |
| Macer | i should run osx86 on my k45 | 10:27 |
| macmaN6789 | yeah macports is something at least | 10:27 |
| Veggen | mavch That's basically because Windows' process-model sucks, and the cost of starting a new process was way too high, there... | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: SFU still exists | 10:27 |
| Veggen | Wasn't that necessary on *nix. | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | although i think they might have renamed it (again) | 10:27 |
| mavhc | mac GUI sucks anyway | 10:27 |
| Macer | macports works way beter than this disgusting cygwin ports | 10:27 |
| Macer | at least you can install it easily | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | Veggen: bah | 10:27 |
| Macer | cygwin ports install is broken | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | the linux process model is wrose | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | worse | 10:28 |
| Macer | mavhc: i agree. i don't like the mac gui | 10:28 |
| thux | always wondered why people use windows so much | 10:28 |
| Macer | wonder if i can replace it but still run the mac apps :) | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | thux: windows just works | 10:28 |
| Macer | thux: because of awesome marketing by ms :) | 10:28 |
| Veggen | thux: Oh, that one is easy. Everyone uses windows because everyone uses windows. | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | Macer: um, ms doesn't really do that much marketing | 10:29 |
| Macer | lol | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm fairly confident that apple does more proportionally | 10:29 |
| Macer | timeless_mbp: i think you missed the earlier conversation about gnu vs dictatorships | 10:29 |
| thux | but even nmap is hard to run well in xp sp2 or later | 10:29 |
| Macer | :) | 10:29 |
| mavhc | because it's cheaper | 10:30 |
| Veggen | timeless: hmm. I'm not so sure what they do vis avis the OEM channel, to make them so dedicated MS-pushers.... | 10:30 |
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| Macer | would also be nice if this damn cygwin setup program would have some goddamn search to it | 10:33 |
| Veggen | but Windows "just works" is something I don't hear that often :) | 10:35 |
| ShadowJK | heh | 10:36 |
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| Veggen | I think it might be true, though, if you have competent users. The problem is that you don't, and Windows has been touted as a no-training-necessary-system for so long... | 10:36 |
| ShadowJK | I find most things harder to do in windows, but that's probably becausebi'm used to nix | 10:37 |
| ShadowJK | but the funniest situation was when neighbour bought a wlan adapter for his pc | 10:38 |
| Veggen | My bold statement is that for non-competent users with relatively simple needs (i.e. no Windows-only programs), a well configured Linux is much better. | 10:38 |
| ShadowJK | even with the included driver disc we couldn't figure out anyway to make it do anything... | 10:39 |
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| thux | ShadowJK: I agree, most things are harder to do in windows | 10:39 |
| Veggen | I have a friend or two with empiric evidence of that, even. Don't do too much Linux-pushing myself, but those that do, normally do it on the non-competent WIndows users about the 5th time they do spyware/virus cleaning of their computer... | 10:39 |
| ShadowJK | pluggef it into my linux box and it 'just worked', which sure as hell surprised me | 10:39 |
| ShadowJK | my | 10:40 |
| timeless_mbp | Veggen: a well configured Linux system, who can find | 10:40 |
| Macer | hm. i should try building something with cygwin and see if it works | 10:40 |
| ShadowJK | own experience dealing with inexperienced users is that nothing is easy to use | 10:40 |
| Macer | like mplayer or something | 10:40 |
| Veggen | timeless: I think those hardware-vendors aren't that competent. | 10:40 |
| thux | http://seclists.org/nmap-hackers/2004/0007.html | 10:41 |
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| Veggen | but I agree - the perfect OS doesn't exist. Sometimes Windows sucks more, sometimes it's Linux that sucks. | 10:41 |
| Veggen | For my use and my skills, it's definitely Windows that sucks more. | 10:42 |
| ShadowJK | and there is no "intuitive" interfaces or programs. doesnt exit. | 10:42 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 10:42 | |
| ShadowJK | exist | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | you clearly don't do enough programming | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | linux as a dev base is bad :) | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | btw the line i wrote above 'who can find' is a reference to Proverbs 31 | 10:43 |
| ShadowJK | XP out of the box is actually the easiest for newbies so far, I think. The bright colours make it easy to learn the concept of a window, and easier to recognize where they start and where they end... | 10:43 |
| aquatix | except that they don't know how to use a mouse | 10:43 |
| ShadowJK | learning how the widgets work, and where they start and where they end, and what is cilickable and what is not, and what they do, however, takes as long as with any other thing | 10:43 |
| ShadowJK | there is that too :) | 10:43 |
| * aquatix saw his granddads struggle with that :) | 10:44 | |
| ShadowJK | I actually switched to Linux originally because I wanted to program stuff and windows had no compiler :) | 10:44 |
| ShadowJK | but a friend of mine told me linux came with a C compiler for free | 10:44 |
| ShadowJK | after a week he told me of 'man' command :) | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: heh | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | note that there are a number of free compilers for windows | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | so the argument is fairly lame | 10:45 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah I actually found one | 10:45 |
| thux | also kernel modification is easier in linux, even me can compile or patch it, but i have no clue how to patch win kernel | 10:45 |
| ShadowJK | I think it was called lcc | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | and unlike w/ linux, the free compilers for windows don't suck | 10:45 |
| ShadowJK | there was also djgbpp iirc | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | well, there were a bunch, djgpp was one | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | borland had a free one | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | depending on time, there was openwatcom or digitalmars | 10:46 |
| ShadowJK | I never figured out how to do anything with borland :) | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | and for recent memory, you've been able to get a free compiler from microsoft | 10:46 |
| suihkulokki | ShadowJK: XP out of box was also so vulnerable that it would get Blaster worm infection faster than you could download the fix for it from windowsupdate :P | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | (since 2001 or so?) | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: you're looking at the box wrong | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | XP out of the box wasn't vulnerable when it shipped | 10:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | it was vulnerable later | 10:47 |
| timeless_mbp | take a linux distro from 2001 and set it up on a computer | 10:47 |
| ShadowJK | I guess the combination of getting man pages, compiler and editor installed by default was the thing that really made it for me | 10:47 |
| thux | also installing programs is harder in windows, with linux you just use apt-get yum emerge or such | 10:47 |
| timeless_mbp | then check a web site to find out how many vulnerabilities it has | 10:47 |
| * ShadowJK couldn't afford to stay online more than an hour or so per day in those days, so searching libc functions online wasnt an option :) | 10:48 | |
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| timeless_mbp | first, i think you'll find that your distro won't be supported today by your vendor | 10:48 |
| timeless_mbp | which might mean you don't get any software updates | 10:48 |
| thux | i switched to linux cause it is easier to use for newbie like me | 10:49 |
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| ShadowJK | But anyway, XP is pretty nice as long as you dont install software... But when the user then buys a printer or digital camera and installs the software disc, suddenly instead of having XP'S UI, they now have new UIs that use different looking widgets and primitives, as well as having different logic and workflow compared to the XP they just started struggling with :( | 10:50 |
| suihkulokki | timeless_mbp: it did happen. I had a friend who bought a new XP machine, plugged into internet, XP proceed to download fixes and before the download finished the machine was infected and the friend was calling me :P | 10:50 |
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| ShadowJK | which is a bit of a shame, since XP has perfectly usable and friendly interface for dealing both with printers and digital cameras, as well as burning CDs and stuff, no need for all the confusing third party software really | 10:50 |
| ShadowJK | suihkulokki: yeah but "properly setup" Machine comes with latest XP updates anyway ;p | 10:51 |
| * ShadowJK ponders how to get rid of the capitalization statusbarwhen using bluetooth keyboard | 10:52 | |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: your friend should have had a router protecting the box :) | 10:54 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: in Mer or Diablo? | 10:54 |
| ShadowJK | diablo | 10:54 |
| timeless_mbp | in diablo the text input control panel let you turn that stuff off | 10:54 |
| timeless_mbp | unless you actually want it for the non bt keyboards | 10:54 |
| timeless_mbp | in which case, i don't think we're that granular | 10:54 |
| ShadowJK | (N800) | 10:55 |
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| ShadowJK | Id want it to go away when I use the bluetooth keyboard, and I'd want normal stylus/finger onscreen keyboards available when bluetooth keyboard isnt connected :) | 10:55 |
| ShadowJK | right now I get this N810-likee capitalization statusbar with bluetooth keyboard on N800 :) | 10:56 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 10:58 |
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| ShadowJK | I turned off all the auto stuff under dictionaries in text input in control panel but it's still doing it :) | 10:58 |
| ShadowJK | on N810 it goes away with shift-space when using the hw keyboard, doesn't seem to work witht bluetooth keyboard on n800 though :\ | 11:00 |
| * ShadowJK looks at the blinking update notification on N810.. | 11:01 | |
| ShadowJK | usbcontrol... | 11:02 |
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| ShadowJK | konttori: "Unable to update usbcontrol, Application packages missing: python-dbus" | 11:05 |
| ShadowJK | (diablo) | 11:06 |
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| ShadowJK | id guess depending on python2.5-dbus would be better :) | 11:06 |
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| ShadowJK | ah there we go, input statusbar gone :) | 11:09 |
| ShadowJK | I missed one item... touchscreen beeped but it must've registered it somewhere else than where I was pointing :) | 11:10 |
| Macer | too bad the best thing they could make is cygwin :) | 11:10 |
| Macer | haha | 11:10 |
| ShadowJK | cygwin is terrible :) | 11:10 |
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| Macer | yeah it is | 11:11 |
| Macer | :) | 11:11 |
| Macer | there are just a few things that i want on my win7 box | 11:11 |
| Macer | like bash for one | 11:11 |
| Macer | still can't believe they killed kate in ncis | 11:12 |
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| ShadowJK | I've made do with msys/mingw | 11:13 |
| Macer | i wonder if i should install x with cygwin | 11:14 |
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| ShadowJK | oh halp now I Get no stylus or finger keyboard after disconneting bt keyboard :) | 11:20 |
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| ShadowJK | huh... is the search bar on wiki.maemo.org broken for anyone else on the device? | 11:25 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: confirmed #4392 looks fixed | 12:39 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yeah, was kind of a big puzzle ;) | 12:40 |
| Jaffa | Of course, being logged out within a couple of hours of logging in (same browser instance) is very irritating (#2085) | 12:40 |
| Jaffa | But it did make testing the fix easier ;-) | 12:40 |
| RST38x | Why this is limited to couple of hours I do not understand | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | It should be limited to session. (Browser close) | 12:41 |
| RST38x | Even google maintains gmail logins for a couple of weeks at a time | 12:41 |
| RST38x | X-Fade; Should be limited to a week or so and alow logins from multiple machines at the same time (i.e. work, home., tablet) | 12:42 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: It doesn't for me (or, I guess, RST38h) | 12:42 |
| RST38x | For me it is both | 12:42 |
| X-Fade | RST38x: Well, talking about security issue ;) | 12:42 |
| RST38x | browser close + time | 12:42 |
| X-Fade | RST38x: Ease over security, always a good thing ;) | 12:42 |
| RST38x | X-Fade: I do not think it is much of a security issue really | 12:42 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: for something like maemo.org, yes | 12:42 |
| RST38x | X-Fade: To make it less an issue, show all logged in sessions under the user's name on top | 12:43 |
| StsN801 | does maemo.org have sane backup? :P | 12:43 |
| Jaffa | RST38x: could you vote for #2085? I realised I commented, but didn't vote | 12:43 |
| RST38x | Jaffa: A moment | 12:44 |
| Jaffa | StsN801: Yes. Tero explained it on the tmo thread about the flight sim site. But I dunno if his comment included tmo | 12:44 |
| RST38x | btw, bugs.maemo.org remembers my login just fine | 12:44 |
| RST38x | for days at a time | 12:44 |
| X-Fade | yeah, we just need to add a 'remember me' for maemo.org | 12:44 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade++ | 12:46 |
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| StsN801 | indeed | 12:46 |
| Macer | well | 12:49 |
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| Macer | got this cygwin crap to work as an xserver in win7 | 12:49 |
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| Macer | works pretty good | 12:50 |
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| mikkov_ | X-Fade: here's downloads conflict http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/tabletsb/ http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/tabletbridge/ | 13:06 |
| X-Fade | mikkov_: Another one where the creator didn't read the warning on the form ;) | 13:07 |
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| X-Fade | mikkov_: I fixed it, thanks for noticing. | 13:10 |
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| czr | sorry for slightly OT question, any hints on when the next nokia device will come out? | 13:11 |
| mikkov_ | i'm pretty sure that not today | 13:12 |
| X-Fade | czr: Fremantle is in beta, so things are shaping up. But no date announced yet. | 13:12 |
| * czr nods | 13:12 | |
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| lardman | morning | 13:39 |
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| Jaffa | lo lardman | 13:40 |
| lardman | hi Jaffa | 13:40 |
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| lardman | interesting, nVidia GTS 250 for <£100 now | 13:47 |
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| oDuda | here we go again... | 14:11 |
| oDuda | hello all ! | 14:12 |
| oDuda | all waked ! | 14:12 |
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| lcuk | lardman, thats really cheap | 14:25 |
| lcuk | you could play some excell errrr do some serious scientific calculations with a nice cheap decent visual processing addin daughterboard | 14:25 |
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| liri | I thought that the syncevolution thing could sync N810's calendar/contacts with my evolution running on a linux desktop | 14:30 |
| lcuk | liri, which calendar are you using on n810.. | 14:31 |
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| liri | lcuk: I installed pimloco's Dates application | 14:34 |
| liri | lcuk: I don't have anything else in specific | 14:34 |
| lcuk | then see whether pimloco is integrated with syncevolution and check logs and console output when attempting to sync | 14:36 |
| lcuk | i know nothing about either app unfortunately | 14:36 |
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| lardman | lcuk: perhaps I should have been an architect, they are allowed to use 3D visualisation (games) programmes to see their designs | 14:42 |
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| lardman | http://digitalurban.blogspot.com/2007/02/crytek-realtime-engine-for-architecture.html nice | 14:44 |
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| lardman | we had thoughts of obtaining a CAD drawing of the uni and playing that in Doom 3, but none of us could be bothered to convert it. Would have been good though :) | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | hehe.. doing that in highschool in US will just make the authorities go columbine on your ass :P | 14:45 |
| lardman | lol | 14:45 |
| lardman | there's one chap who was always too good, he knew the maps too well, so we thought we'd level the playing field | 14:46 |
| lardman | plus sniping from the top of the library would be pretty cool too | 14:46 |
| * derf alerts the appropriate authorities. | 14:46 | |
| lardman | lol | 14:46 |
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| derf | It's been done more than once. | 14:46 |
| lardman | not over here | 14:47 |
| derf | The 3D shooter map of your school, I mean. | 14:47 |
| lardman | ah I see | 14:47 |
| derf | Though, sniping from the library has been done, too. | 14:47 |
| lardman | :) | 14:47 |
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| derf | Well, "book depository". | 14:47 |
| Jaffa | lardman: I wrote a tool when at IBM to take the AutoCAD files and generate realtime maps of the floorplans (highlighting people's offices) | 14:48 |
| derf | Actually, I don't remember if the tower at UT Austin is part of the library or not. I know the bell tower at UNC is not. | 14:48 |
| derf | But both of those have had snipers. | 14:48 |
| Jaffa | There was enough info to generate a Quake/UT level to explore the site, but no-one ever did (despite talking about it) | 14:48 |
| lcuk | lardman, 3d has always been on the cards for architectural work, i was fascinated as a kid seeing some swanky object oriented design system that would only let you position things and move things if it was physically possible | 14:48 |
| lcuk | ie you couldnt take a big couch through a door so you couldnt include it in the plans | 14:48 |
| lcuk | this went down to the nuts and bolts :) years before sims had it | 14:49 |
| lardman | Jaffa: we ran out of time really, I think I have the CAD drawing somewhere around here, but PhD deadlines loomed ever closer | 14:49 |
| lcuk | derf, wad files of offices are cool, i often pondered whether all email and tasks should be delivered that way | 14:50 |
| lcuk | die along the way, mail doesnt arrive | 14:50 |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah it's been around for a long time, I was just reminiscing :) | 14:50 |
| derf | "That task wasn't important anyway." | 14:50 |
| * lcuk does as well | 14:50 | |
| amr | is the n810 the best maemo device out atm still? | 14:50 |
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| lardman | yes | 14:51 |
| lcuk | amr, some folks still swear by their 770s :) "best" is subjective in most terms, "newest" is n810 | 14:51 |
| amr | my 770 would be useful so much but it has the stupid WSOD (again) and the retailer is being arsey | 14:51 |
| amr | it looks like i can get an n810 on ebay for ~150. im thinking it would be mega useful for uni | 14:51 |
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| lcuk | i believe theres practically new stock for ~$200 in places, check before you shell out close to that for a second user system | 14:53 |
| amr | :o | 14:53 |
| lardman | new hw ought to be out soon too really | 14:53 |
| * Myrtti huggles her n800 | 14:53 | |
| lardman | as it's summer holidays now, and I guess term won't start till sept or thereabouts | 14:53 |
| amr | i saw 'pcworld' in the uk did them for £79 once upon a time | 14:53 |
| amr | but i missed them | 14:53 |
| lcuk | summer hols already? | 14:54 |
| amr | well im still at uni now and will be until july | 14:54 |
| lardman | exam time or project time though isn't it? I'd wait | 14:54 |
| amr | exam time yeah | 14:54 |
| amr | then intro lectures for things next year | 14:54 |
| LinuxCode | Id wait full-stop | 14:54 |
| amr | lol | 14:55 |
| LinuxCode | sooner or later the replacement model has to come out | 14:55 |
| lardman | yeah, well the new one should be out before next term, I bloody well hope so anyway :) | 14:55 |
| amr | im very impatient | 14:55 |
| amr | yeah haha | 14:55 |
| lcuk | :) i would never wait for computer tech, mind you - i wouldnt buy until i had a need for it | 14:55 |
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| LinuxCode | amr, besides you wont need one anymore until you start uni | 14:55 |
| lardman | lcuk: well when there's a clear jump I would wait, for incremental I would just get it when I need it | 14:55 |
| lcuk | LinuxCode, why dont you sell him yours :P | 14:56 |
| LinuxCode | lcuk, how about, DIE | 14:56 |
| LinuxCode | hehe | 14:56 |
| lcuk | o_O | 14:56 |
| * LinuxCode uses his N810 daily | 14:56 | |
| amr | well im not just getting it for uni | 14:56 |
| * lcuk also uses LinuxCode's n810 daily | 14:56 | |
| amr | i used my 770 daily | 14:56 |
| lcuk | (but dont tell LinuxCode) | 14:56 |
| amr | but it broke before the start of the academic year | 14:56 |
| * LinuxCode /dev/zero's lcuk's randomly | 14:57 | |
| lcuk | whats my randomly | 14:57 |
| lcuk | and will it hurt? | 14:57 |
| LinuxCode | your N810 | 14:57 |
| lardman | definitely! | 14:57 |
| LinuxCode | yes it will hurt | 14:57 |
| LinuxCode | you will have to reflash it every time | 14:57 |
| lcuk | :O u cant delete my n810 | 14:57 |
| LinuxCode | ok | 14:58 |
| lcuk | it has the new liqbase code on it | 14:58 |
| amr | its been a while since ive paid any attention to the maemo world :o | 14:58 |
| amr | whats all this mer nonsense! | 14:58 |
| lcuk | theres no copy anywhere | 14:58 |
| lcuk | at all in the world | 14:58 |
| Stskeeps | nonsense? :P | 14:58 |
| lcuk | heh | 14:58 |
| LinuxCode | lcuk, trying to do what that flight sim site did ? | 14:58 |
| LinuxCode | that just made me think, god, how duull are they ? | 14:58 |
| lcuk | LinuxCode, heh i could make a flightsim for maemo | 14:58 |
| amr | oh it looks pretty | 14:59 |
| lcuk | but ive got other tihngs in mind ;) | 14:59 |
| LinuxCode | lcuk, im sure you do | 14:59 |
| lcuk | amr, what does? | 14:59 |
| amr | mer | 14:59 |
| amr | im just reading about it now, im massively out of the loop | 14:59 |
| * lardman goes for bacon and to pay for his banns | 15:00 | |
| LinuxCode | +1 | 15:00 |
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| * lcuk thinks mer is gonna be really good stable linux distro | 15:00 | |
| * lcuk might look at the omapfb problems soon | 15:02 | |
| lcuk | dinneritme anyway | 15:03 |
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| Jaffa | konttori_: ping | 15:12 |
| t_s_o | hmm, i see a usbcontrol update (probably devel), with python and python-dbus dependencies... | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | t_s_o: it *is* devel, I asked konttori_ to upload it for diablo yesterday. Needs a section tweak (so it's not "user/multimedia") and a new version (1.1). | 15:13 |
| Jaffa | Also related to the ping I just did ;-) | 15:13 |
| t_s_o | i just hope the 1.1 cleans up the deps, as the python's should be python2.5... | 15:13 |
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| Jaffa | t_s_o: I'll tack that on to my email to konttori_ - want to be CCed? | 15:14 |
| t_s_o | no biggie | 15:15 |
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| Stskeeps | andre_: closing 2249 doesn't make sense | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | (afaik) | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | at least the reason | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | there's FMTX libraries in fremantle at least | 15:39 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: That is FM transmitter? | 15:39 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Not receiver? | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, true | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | andre_k i meant | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | still kernels pointed to fmrx too :) | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | but nm :) | 15:40 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Yeah, the chip that is mentioned should be FM rx capable IIRC. | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. which wondered me | 15:40 |
| andre_k | i was told that there's no work going on for that anymore. my info might be wrong though | 15:42 |
| andre_k | definitely feel free to reopen | 15:42 |
| X-Fade | - FM receiver + bluetooth 2.0 (bcm2048) | 15:42 |
| X-Fade | Should at least be FM radio capable ;) | 15:42 |
| Stskeeps | andre_k: well the bug is probably not valida nymore :) | 15:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, replaced with a TI chip. | 15:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12762&contentId=29993 WL1271 | 15:43 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Same difference ;) | 15:44 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Has FM too? | 15:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, has damn near everything but 802.11a | 15:50 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Yeah, quite amazing. | 15:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Should give better power saving than the Broadcom/TI combo | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | google translates windows CE to "sweet potato" | 15:51 |
| Stskeeps | lovely | 15:51 |
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| aquatix | Stskeeps: at least it's an improvement | 15:57 |
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| BogdanR | Hello everybody | 16:04 |
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| masterdomme | hello | 16:04 |
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| BogdanR | I am thinking of rebuilding the FIASCO image of OS2008 but I can't find any info about that | 16:04 |
| BogdanR | Can anyone give me some pointers on how to rebuild the FIASCO image | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, that's a interesting problematique - go comment on the open flasher bug | 16:05 |
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| Stskeeps | what do you want to do? | 16:06 |
| t_s_o | any news on a green light for the community taking over the updates for diablo? | 16:06 |
| BogdanR | I want to bundle my own set of applications and configurations in the image | 16:06 |
| Stskeeps | right, but you are aware you cannot distribute it to anyone but yourself? | 16:07 |
| Stskeeps | if so, i would just make a rootfs jffs instead | 16:07 |
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| BogdanR | I see | 16:07 |
| BogdanR | and how do I do that? | 16:07 |
| Jaffa | t_s_o: Technically it seems straightforward. I guess we just need to find time to rebuild h-a-m and a new osso-software-version-rx* | 16:07 |
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| t_s_o | remind me, h-a-m? | 16:08 |
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| Stskeeps | BogdanR: read up on mkfs.jffs2 | 16:08 |
| BogdanR | Actually my main question is how can I backup what's now on the device as a jffs image | 16:08 |
| BogdanR | because with mkfs I just format a fs | 16:09 |
| BogdanR | Stskeeps: If I make my own jffs image would I be allowed to distribute that? | 16:09 |
| Jaffa | t_s_o: Hildon Application Manager. There are some useful fixes we submitted, that were merged, that can be seen in mer - but not diablo | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | BogdanR: probably not, the curse of Maemo, it's 80% open source, 20% closed | 16:10 |
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| t_s_o | and the 20%'s are what makes it more then a paperweight... | 16:11 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Although if you keep the initfs, you can do a lot? | 16:11 |
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| BogdanR | I thought that kernel stuff are closed source | 16:11 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: yeah but then there's DSP codecs, most of the os2008 apps.. etc | 16:12 |
| BogdanR | Mer doesn't use any of the closed source things? | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | it just gets very difficult to distinguish | 16:12 |
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| Stskeeps | BogdanR: we try to keep a 100% open source rootfs.. with ln -s's into initfs | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | we dont distribute initfs | 16:12 |
| BogdanR | I see | 16:12 |
| Stskeeps | we are working on this though and i plan to discuss it further on the copenhagen meetup :P | 16:13 |
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| BogdanR | Stskeeps: Can you please tell me how do I make a jffs rootfs out of my current one? | 16:13 |
| BogdanR | Mer is starting to look very cool | 16:13 |
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| Stskeeps | BogdanR: i would boot into either mer or a cloned maemo and mount the rootfs and mkfs.jffs2 that :P | 16:14 |
| BogdanR | Is .13 sprint done compiling? | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | the imager for N8x0 is building at this exact moment | 16:14 |
| BogdanR | do you think it will be done today ? :) | 16:15 |
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| Stskeeps | i bloody hope so :P | 16:18 |
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| RST38x | Moo all | 16:30 |
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| Meizirkki | m00 RST38x | 16:35 |
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| lizardo | X-Fade: a much more up-to-date libffi version is already in fremantle: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libf/libffi/ | 16:39 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: and it replaces libffi4 entirely | 16:39 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: Yeah, I'm doing a diablo->fremantle rebuild. But some libs slipped through ;) | 16:40 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: But at least it failed :D | 16:40 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: yeah, but unfortunately the autobuilder only checks the package name for rejection (and note the Provides/Replaces fields), but luckly the build itself failed with a known issue (fixed in the libffi version already in extras-devel) :) | 16:41 |
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| X-Fade | lizardo: If you need anything from diablo -> fremantle, please let me know. | 17:04 |
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| lizardo | X-Fade: ok, thanks :) for PyMaemo we actually don't need anything from Diablo, as we uploaded all required packages already (pretty much all of them were updated since diablo) | 17:05 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: Yeah, I figured that. But I had to ask :) | 17:06 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: I'm just tracking maemo-extras-cauldron to make sure that none of the packages being uploaded replace/break the current PyMaemo set | 17:06 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: but fortunately the autobuilder rejects older versions, so that has not been a problem so far :) | 17:07 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: yeah, we should add even more checks soon. We need to prevent obvious breakages. | 17:08 |
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| lizardo | X-Fade: one possible check (not sure if easy to make) is to reject packages that are listed in Provides/Replaces/Conflicts fields of some existing package , this would detect renamed packages, for instance libffi4 -> libffi5 case | 17:11 |
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| lizardo | X-Fade: another one might be to reject (or at least add some big warning on the e-mail sent to the extras-cauldron) packages that are listed in "alternative dependencies" of existing packages. Example: a package named "x" which has Depends: a|b (where b is already available in the repository, and thus satisfies the dependency); then some other user uploads a package named "a", then package "x" might end up using "a" as dependency without knowing it | 17:15 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: that last one was the case for the recent libclutter break | 17:16 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: How's it going? | 17:19 |
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| lbt | hi fiferboy | 17:21 |
| lbt | busy job hunting today ;) | 17:21 |
| fiferboy | lbt: I hear Qt is building for the next release of Mer | 17:21 |
| lbt | it's done | 17:21 |
| lbt | Mer Stable is just about out | 17:22 |
| fiferboy | Is it included by default, or just available? | 17:22 |
| lbt | it's not in the core iso | 17:22 |
| lbt | but it is in the core repo | 17:22 |
| fiferboy | I guess it would be too big for the core at this point | 17:22 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: Current check code is here: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/buildme/tools/buildme?revision=128&root=extras-cauldron&view=markup | 17:22 |
| lbt | as is QTablet | 17:22 |
| lbt | which I really must fix | 17:22 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: Nice python code, you'll like it ;) | 17:22 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: So if you are bored over the weekend, maybe a nice patch is a great way to spend the day? :) | 17:23 |
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| RST38x | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vESIVemfG8 | 17:26 |
| fiferboy | lbt: I just tried flickrdemo (which Antonio built at some point) with finger scrolling, and it works well. | 17:27 |
| RST38x | (rather stupid usage of the opportunity, but still...) | 17:27 |
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| lbt | did you add it to your app? | 17:27 |
| fiferboy | No, I installed it standalone from the repo | 17:28 |
| lbt | I suspect it will break if you have any active widgets in your scrollarea :( | 17:28 |
| fiferboy | How do you mean? | 17:28 |
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| lbt | it only tracks events that make it to the scrollarea | 17:28 |
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| lbt | so anything active will eat events b4 they get there | 17:29 |
| lbt | AFAIUI | 17:29 |
| fiferboy | How would I test that? | 17:29 |
| lbt | try adding the flickcharm to the scrollarea on your birdlist | 17:30 |
| fiferboy | Ah, sorry I was talking about flickrdemo, a Flickr photo viewer. | 17:30 |
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| fiferboy | I meant that I ran it using your finger scroll library with no issues. | 17:31 |
| lbt | flickr.... d'oh | 17:31 |
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| fiferboy | I haven't tried my flickcharm birdlist with the finger scroll libraries. I didn't think there was much point | 17:31 |
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| amr | im looking at n810s and im losing the ability to say no! | 17:33 |
| X-Fade | amr: While it is getting older, it doesn't mean it sucks ;) | 17:34 |
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| amr | i never said it sucks | 17:34 |
| amr | i want one :p | 17:34 |
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| kfx | now's the time | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | just dont get it for the gps | 17:35 |
| kfx | I bought mine like two weeks ago and now it's way cheaper | 17:35 |
| amr | how much did you pay? | 17:35 |
| amr | Stskeeps, whys that? | 17:35 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: I made 3 full day hikes this week. No problem with fixes what so ever. | 17:35 |
| kfx | I paid $240, now buy.com has 'em for $200 | 17:35 |
| amr | really? hmm | 17:35 |
| amr | i wonder if they ship internationally | 17:35 |
| amr | im looking at ~ 150 | 17:36 |
| amr | GBP | 17:36 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Really weird but it fixed within a minute and didn't have any problems.. | 17:36 |
| kfx | ah | 17:36 |
| amr | so thats about 230 dollars? | 17:36 |
| kfx | yeah, more or less | 17:36 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: I would love to help, if I have some time maybe... But if I read the code correctly, the only check currectly if for a package with same name but lower version (in check_sources()) ? | 17:36 |
| kfx | if you buy at that price it will make me feel less stupid for buying at the price I did :D | 17:36 |
| * Jaffa has had relatively good performance from the GPS recently too | 17:36 | |
| amr | haha | 17:36 |
| amr | well ive enquired about getting one for 120 | 17:36 |
| amr | bnib from ebay | 17:37 |
| amr | so heres hoping | 17:37 |
| amr | i might just get it anyway | 17:37 |
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| amr | did you have any previous tablets kfx ? | 17:37 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: anyway, I need to give more thought about the checks I proposed, I'm pretty sure there are unhandled cases on them :) | 17:37 |
| kfx | amr: actually, I moved from carrying a nokia e61 and an acer aspire one to just the n810 and an s40 (non smart)phone | 17:38 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: Yeah, but at least covering the obvious ones will help. | 17:38 |
| amr | oh nice | 17:39 |
| amr | ive got an s60 phone | 17:39 |
| amr | i had the 770, but i broke it :p | 17:39 |
| amr | i loved that thing | 17:39 |
| amr | and buy.com dont ship intl, how disappointing :( | 17:39 |
| kfx | I like the e61 but I don't like closed-source stuff | 17:39 |
| kfx | and now that I've messed with maemo I hope nokia drops symbian for it, to be honest | 17:40 |
| amr | yeah | 17:40 |
| kfx | moblin looks like it'll be a tough competitor | 17:40 |
| kfx | but since it's linux, we can just steal all the good stuff :D | 17:40 |
| amr | lol | 17:41 |
| lbt | so where is flikrdemo? | 17:41 |
| amr | the n800 doesnt have the keyboard does it? | 17:41 |
| lbt | no | 17:41 |
| kfx | right | 17:41 |
| amr | gay | 17:41 |
| amr | hmmm | 17:41 |
| amr | i can get them for ~60 by the looks of it | 17:41 |
| lbt | that's a lot... keep looking | 17:42 |
| amr | id rather just get the n810 | 17:42 |
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| amr | if i can get it for 120 ill probs go for it | 17:42 |
| lbt | nah, the new one's just coming out | 17:43 |
| lbt | then prices will plummet | 17:43 |
| amr | how soon is the new one coming out | 17:43 |
| lbt | couple weeks maybe | 17:43 |
| amr | oh thats alright then | 17:43 |
| lbt | or couple months | 17:43 |
| lbt | or maybe longer | 17:43 |
| lopz | hola | 17:43 |
| amr | gash. | 17:43 |
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| lbt | fiferboy: flickrdemo is building for Mer | 17:45 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Nice | 17:46 |
| Jaffa | amr: If I knew when the new one was coming out, I'd sell you my N810 ;-) | 17:47 |
| gentooer | are there any phones based on maemo? | 17:49 |
| lbt | freerunner can run Mer | 17:49 |
| fiferboy | lbt: I am going to try to do a build of your branch so I can play around with some things like accessor functions | 17:49 |
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| lbt | hmm | 17:49 |
| lbt | nothing committed anywhere yet | 17:49 |
| lbt | ... but did you see the gitorious comments | 17:50 |
| lbt | on qt4-dev | 17:50 |
| lbt | \o/ | 17:50 |
| fiferboy | Yes | 17:50 |
| fiferboy | You could have your own patch branch | 17:51 |
| lbt | yep | 17:51 |
| lbt | and a Mer branch that bases on maemo + extra cherries | 17:51 |
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| fiferboy | I wonder how soon that will happen. | 17:53 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: How many source files do you touch with your changes? | 17:53 |
| lbt | it used to be 2 | 17:53 |
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| lbt | now I think 4-5 | 17:53 |
| lbt | it's in a branch in local git repo though | 17:54 |
| fiferboy | You could send me those file and I could apply them to my SVN checkout, but then we would have no way to sync changes... | 17:55 |
| lbt | just looking at the repo I have | 17:57 |
| lbt | meh | 17:57 |
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| lbt | it's incremental over basic fingerscrolling | 17:58 |
| lbt | I'll send it anyway | 17:59 |
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| fiferboy | Thanks, I doubt I'll be able to make any useful contributions anyways ;) | 18:01 |
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| amr | Jaffa, sell me it anyway | 18:03 |
| amr | :p | 18:03 |
| lbt | sent | 18:04 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Got it, thanks! | 18:04 |
| fiferboy | This is going to be a painful build, so we'll see if I even get it fully compiled. | 18:04 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: In theory if I am just interested in libQtGui.so files, I should be able to build without XML, webkit, SQL, etc correct? | 18:13 |
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| lbt | fiferboy: yes | 18:22 |
| lbt | but | 18:22 |
| lbt | not using the debian buildpkg approach | 18:22 |
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| lbt | you may want to run debuild and then stop it when it starts to compile | 18:23 |
| lbt | then find the build dir and cd to BUILD/src/gui | 18:23 |
| lbt | and run a make there | 18:23 |
| lbt | should produce ../libGui.so | 18:23 |
| fiferboy | Ah, that sounds like a good start. | 18:23 |
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| fiferboy | Thanks. | 18:23 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: I'll stop bugging you now and let you get back to the job hunt. | 18:24 |
| fiferboy | Good luck with that, I know it's never fun. | 18:25 |
| lbt | NP... jobs was this morning | 18:25 |
| fiferboy | Ah. | 18:25 |
| lbt | I have to polish up a CV for a role for tomorrow but that's all | 18:25 |
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| fiferboy | Gotcha | 18:28 |
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| GAN800 | kfx, Moblin is targetting netbooks, not tabkets | 18:30 |
| kfx | GAN800: moblin's ui would work just as well as hildon on a tablet, I think | 18:31 |
| fiferboy | lbt: I've started the compile. I should be able to tell you by the end of the week if it was successful ;) | 18:32 |
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| Jaffa | kfx: The screenshots of Moblin 2.0 at 1024x600 have tiny little controls which'd suck on a tablet | 18:36 |
| Jaffa | I get pissed off with the current time selector, so I might kill someone if they got smaller and more fiddly (even with a stylus) | 18:37 |
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| mib_d22bkd | hello | 18:37 |
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| mib_d22bkd | is there somebody? | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | there is somebody out there | 18:38 |
| Jaffa | I thought it was just us chickens | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | *chirp* *chirp*, say the crickets | 18:39 |
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| mib_d22bkd | hi, i am back again | 18:48 |
| mib_d22bkd | does somebody can help me? my problem is... | 18:49 |
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| mib_d22bkd | i have install ubuntu on nokia n800 and it boots till 99% and stops | 18:49 |
| mib_d22bkd | what is wrong ? | 18:49 |
| mgedmin | it stops | 18:50 |
| mgedmin | I'm pretty sure that's wrong | 18:50 |
| amr | moblin looks pretty cool | 18:50 |
| kfx | XD | 18:50 |
| mib_d22bkd | i wanna to test ubuntu, after this i wil test other distros | 18:50 |
| mib_d22bkd | so, anybody can help me? | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | do you get any startup messages, or just a splash screen? | 18:51 |
| mib_d22bkd | splash screen and progress bar on bottom is going till around. 99% | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | can you try booting in rescue mode to see what's happening? | 18:52 |
| mgedmin | how long did you wait? maybe it's still busy doing something? | 18:52 |
| mgedmin | the ubuntu progress bar is not very reliable, in my observation | 18:52 |
| mib_d22bkd | 10minutes... | 18:52 |
| mib_d22bkd | ok, i wil find how to boot in rescue, then i will tell whats wrong | 18:53 |
| mgedmin | ooh, 10 minutes certainly ought to be enough | 18:53 |
| lbt | mib_d22bkd: you know that Mer is essentially ubuntu 9.04 for N8x0 don't you? | 18:53 |
| mgedmin | lbt: that's a good tagline; I never considered it in that way before | 18:54 |
| lbt | but actually optimised to work | 18:54 |
| mib_d22bkd | hmm... but, is Mer has polish-locale? | 18:54 |
| lbt | the main dev has a polish girlfriend... | 18:54 |
| lbt | IIRC | 18:54 |
| mib_d22bkd | ;] | 18:55 |
| mib_d22bkd | ok, i have rescue mode, what now? | 18:55 |
| mib_d22bkd | active console on framebuffer? | 18:56 |
| mib_d22bkd | ok, its boot in console... waiting; ] | 18:57 |
| amr | oh bugger it | 18:57 |
| amr | im buying this n810 | 18:57 |
| amr | with SD card and mini usb cable | 18:57 |
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| mib_d22bkd | ok, i found that xserver canot open (/etc/default/x-derver.defs) | 18:58 |
| mgedmin | is that a problem? there's no such file on my laptop | 18:58 |
| mib_d22bkd | i found this (It might be that the xserver doesn't start, download this file http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emer-c...bx-3/xorg.conf (xorg.conf that Mer uses) and put it in /etc/X11/ and see if it helps) | 18:59 |
| mib_d22bkd | may it help? | 18:59 |
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| mib_d22bkd | hmm... i wil go right now for testing... | 19:00 |
| GAN800 | kfx, what Jaffa said, it's aint no mobile UI. | 19:00 |
| amr | i know this is a 'go google it' question | 19:01 |
| mib_d22bkd | :) | 19:01 |
| amr | but are there any decent mail clients that can handle exchange? | 19:01 |
| amr | or OWA | 19:02 |
| lbt | outlook is quite nice really | 19:02 |
| amr | for maemo | 19:02 |
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| lbt | you are aware they run linux? | 19:03 |
| amr | yes of course i am | 19:03 |
| lbt | and exchange integration is a challenge on a full blown desktop? | 19:03 |
| amr | i have no idea, i dont use linux on the desktop | 19:03 |
| amr | and last time i did, it was | 19:04 |
| lbt | and these devices have 128Mb of RAM | 19:04 |
| amr | are you just going to dance around the question all day? | 19:04 |
| amr | simple really, is there a client i can use to connect to my OWA account so i dont have to use the shitty web client? | 19:04 |
| Jaffa | No | 19:06 |
| kfx | lbt is hinting at "no" | 19:06 |
| amr | thank you, simple enough | 19:06 |
| amr | :) | 19:06 |
| kfx | the problem isn't limited to exchange | 19:06 |
| lbt | [17:01] <amr> i know this is a 'go google it' question <--- so I was assuming you did and explained the background a bit... | 19:07 |
| amr | oic | 19:07 |
| kfx | I was looking at writing a small pim suite that would use EDS and sync to something non-google | 19:07 |
| kfx | but there doesn't really appear to be a useable standard regarding the matter | 19:07 |
| amr | lol | 19:07 |
| kfx | which makes me less irked at google for reinventing the wheel with google calendar et al | 19:08 |
| kfx | but still leaves me in the lurch | 19:08 |
| lbt | kfx gpe | 19:08 |
| lbt | and caldav | 19:08 |
| lbt | gpe uses ical now | 19:08 |
| amr | yeah, my college has a google account set up so i can use university things | 19:08 |
| amr | but i wouldnt have access to my main university mail | 19:08 |
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| lbt | and you can run egroupware with caldav | 19:08 |
| kfx | gpe is cumbersome and imo not suited for the tablet at all | 19:08 |
| amr | i suppose i could just forward, like everyone else | 19:08 |
| kfx | it'd be less work to "fix" the pimlico tools than to fix gpe | 19:09 |
| * lbt likes gpe-calendar much better than nothing | 19:09 | |
| * lbt would like qpe though... | 19:09 | |
| amr | part of my reasoning to get another tablet was how useful itd be while im at lectures | 19:09 |
| amr | means i dont have to bring my laptop to check things quickly | 19:09 |
| amr | oh what am i talking about | 19:10 |
| amr | the uni just added imap support, thats me sorted hah | 19:10 |
| kfx | does qt still treat c as a second-class language? | 19:10 |
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| lbt | rightly so | 19:11 |
| kfx | yeah, not interested | 19:11 |
| kfx | at least I can code gtk without clumsy object garbage | 19:11 |
| lbt | heh, welcome to the 90's | 19:11 |
| kfx | yuk it up, I remember when c++ was just a huge, ugly c preprocessor | 19:12 |
| kfx | and to a great extent it hasn't gotten any better | 19:12 |
| * lcuk keeps pondering examining cfront | 19:12 | |
| lbt | yeah... OO will never catch on... dunno what I'm thinking | 19:13 |
| kfx | iirc cfront died because it didn't do exception handling? I could be wrong about that | 19:13 |
| luke-jr | kfx: it's not a big deal if you code things correctly ;) | 19:14 |
| luke-jr | eg, GUI is just an interface to a CLI app | 19:14 |
| kfx | I remember watching with great amusement as people wondered how to get cfront running, because it was written in c++, and you needed cfront to build it... | 19:14 |
| lcuk | i have no qualms with oo - its very very good, but the butchering from qt to force c++ into runtime OO with meta info and stuff seems a bit ott | 19:14 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: Qt and C++ are two different languages | 19:14 |
| kfx | oo in general is okay for tremendously huge projects with dozens of developers | 19:14 |
| luke-jr | Qt is to C++ what C++ is to C | 19:14 |
| kfx | but for most applications that level of abstraction is just a waste of time | 19:15 |
| lbt | (nb they are the ones that actually hire people BTW) | 19:15 |
| lcuk | i have to agree | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: um | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | Qt:C++ :: GObject:C | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | they both hack the language so much that it isn't the language you thought you knew | 19:16 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: no comment on GTK, I don't touch it | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr:i have no love for any of them | 19:16 |
| lcuk | qt is actually c++ with some mashing to force it to make meta info available - generically runtime type info isnt available i think | 19:16 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'm picking GObject not GTK | 19:16 |
| luke-jr | C++ has an entirely different stdlib, and a few syntax changes (from C) | 19:17 |
| luke-jr | Qt likewise, has an entirely different stdlib, and a few syntax changes (from C++) | 19:17 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: GObject is part of GTK | 19:17 |
| lcuk | mind you, every library has its isms | 19:17 |
| lcuk | its whether or not it requires language retraining | 19:17 |
| * kfx decides to write all his maemo stuff with xlib | 19:18 | |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: I draw the line when "Hello World" changes | 19:18 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: it's a building block | 19:18 |
| timeless_mbp | you can build something that doesn't resemble or relate to GTK from GObject | 19:18 |
| luke-jr | if a glib "Hello World" is different from a C "Hello World", then fine | 19:19 |
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| luke-jr | but I consider GObject/glib to be part of GTK | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | what's the fremantle widget set called? :) | 19:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh, Clutter! | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: you consider gconf part of GTK :P | 19:21 |
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| luke-jr | Stskeeps: no, I consider gconf part of GNOME | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | are MAFW and Clutter part of GTK? | 19:21 |
| luke-jr | [I] gnome-base/gconf | 19:22 |
| luke-jr | Description: Gnome Configuration System and Daemon | 19:22 |
| Jaffa | luke-jr: GObject/glib is a separate project. I can write a Vala program depending on glib with no libgtk dependency | 19:23 |
| kfx | oh lord, gconf | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: it's true that historically GObject was written for use by GTK | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | but w/ time it is possible to distinguish them | 19:23 |
| kfx | gconf is the result of the gnome devs seeing the windows registry and thinking "what a great idea" | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | kfx: and getting it all wrong :) | 19:24 |
| kfx | not like there's a way to get that right | 19:24 |
| timeless_mbp | ms's impl isn't really that bad | 19:24 |
| luke-jr | Jaffa: they're the same in my book | 19:24 |
| luke-jr | I want neither on my PC | 19:24 |
| derf | timeless_mbp: Have you ever tried to _use_ MS's API, though? | 19:24 |
| timeless_mbp | derf: yes | 19:24 |
| kfx | the whole idea is nasty | 19:24 |
| derf | It is abominable. | 19:24 |
| timeless_mbp | kfx: you prefer each app to have its own private arbitrary settings format | 19:25 |
| timeless_mbp | which it randomly misplaces throughout your file system? | 19:25 |
| derf | gconf's implementation may suck, but at least I can write code for it in a reasonable manner. | 19:25 |
| kfx | timeless_mbp: don't put words in my mouth | 19:25 |
| timeless_mbp | derf: *cough* | 19:25 |
| kfx | I prefer programs to have configuration settings editable without a gui | 19:25 |
| timeless_mbp | the gconf consuming code i've read is awful | 19:25 |
| kfx | and furthermore, if the program puts its config in the wrong place, patch the source to fix it | 19:25 |
| timeless_mbp | kfx: oh sure, that works well for mathematica | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | or a large project | 19:26 |
| kfx | I don't use mathematica for reasons like this | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not claiming mathematica uses the registry | 19:26 |
| luke-jr | if we have a centralized registry, at least make it not have crappy dependencies | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | it probably doesn't, it's merely a way for me to avoid singling out the usual suspects | 19:26 |
| kfx | any program too poorly-written to be brought in line doesn't run on my servers, fully stop | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | kfx: i presume you don't run apache :) | 19:27 |
| kfx | apache can be brought in line | 19:27 |
| kfx | I don't run, for instance, netbeans | 19:27 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 19:28 | |
| kfx | it was a long fight to get the department to migrate away from it, too | 19:28 |
| timeless_mbp | to what, eclipse? | 19:28 |
| kfx | but it's the 21st century and I don't have to tolerate shoddy design | 19:28 |
| kfx | to geany | 19:28 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 19:28 |
| timeless_mbp | afaict, geany isn't in the same league | 19:28 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, what do you prefer coding in | 19:28 |
| kfx | it's not | 19:28 |
| lcuk | deep in the bowels of c? | 19:28 |
| timeless_mbp | which isn't to say one league is better than another | 19:28 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: notepad - javascript | 19:29 |
| amr | anyone here use boingo ? | 19:29 |
| kfx | but our job is to teach programming, not to teach students how to stitch java libraries together | 19:29 |
| derf | AFAICT, the 21st century has even more shoddy design than the 20th. | 19:29 |
| lcuk | ewwww js | 19:29 |
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| lcuk | :P | 19:29 |
| lcuk | bbl | 19:29 |
| Jaffa | kfx: University? | 19:29 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: js = lightweight, and you get cool JITs today | 19:29 |
| kfx | Jaffa: yeah | 19:29 |
| timeless_mbp | kfx: for a uni... i dunno... it depends on the kind of project | 19:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | i used Netbeans (and even did some qa/testing/etc w/ it) 8+years ago | 19:30 |
| kfx | I think you'll find the more advanced a student gets into computer science the less she makes use of huge piles of IDE | 19:30 |
| timeless_mbp | in college | 19:30 |
| kfx | at least in the unix wprld | 19:30 |
| kfx | s/p/o/; | 19:30 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 19:30 | |
| timeless_mbp | i use notepad or equivalents most of the time | 19:30 |
| kfx | if notepad could display line numbers it would be great | 19:31 |
| timeless_mbp | however, i will use an IDE (XCode, msdev, netbeans) | 19:31 |
| timeless_mbp | kfx: ctrl-g will tell you the current line number | 19:31 |
| timeless_mbp | (as long as you turn off line wrap) | 19:31 |
| kfx | I'm to the point where I can't use a text editor that doesn't support regular expressions | 19:31 |
| * Jaffa wouldn't do any professional programming without an IDE (even if it's just to manage a collection of files, syntax highlighting, Java/perldoc lookup and present some svn info) these days | 19:31 | |
| kfx | but I'm pretty far gone | 19:31 |
| timeless_mbp | kfx: i do most of my regexp's w/ perl | 19:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i can write regexps in msdev or xcode or whatever | 19:32 |
| timeless_mbp | but inevitably i have to learn that stupid app's variation of regexps | 19:32 |
| timeless_mbp | which isn't worth it | 19:32 |
| timeless_mbp | the app will tell me if the file changed on disk and offer to reload | 19:32 |
| kfx | vi does enough for me | 19:32 |
| timeless_mbp | (yay IDE!) | 19:32 |
| kfx | if I'm hacking on something huge I'll use vim with taglist | 19:33 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, i often use vi, but really vi, not vim | 19:33 |
| timeless_mbp | for me, vi is basically notepad | 19:33 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't use visual mode | 19:33 |
| kfx | command mode is where it's at | 19:33 |
| timeless_mbp | i use a very limited feature set (find, delete, go to line) | 19:33 |
| timeless_mbp | otoh | 19:34 |
| timeless_mbp | i liked edlin :) | 19:34 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders if anyone here even remembers that! | 19:34 | |
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| kfx | using edlin meant you were probably going to have to screw with DOS interrupts | 19:34 |
| kfx | I do not miss that world, even a little | 19:34 |
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| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 19:36 | |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 19:43 | |
| luke-jr | Jaffa: most of those features you listed don't need an IDE ;P | 19:45 |
| Jaffa | luke-jr: Most text editors have IDE-like features in them now :-p | 19:45 |
| luke-jr | ☺ | 19:45 |
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| GAN800 | The capped CSS headers need to go. | 20:12 |
| GAN800 | It's too dumb and it makes us look like idiots when Maemo.org shows up. | 20:13 |
| GAN800 | Particularly bad on Planet. | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | what, cos it's maemo.org? ;) | 20:13 |
| amr | n810 is on its way :) | 20:13 |
| amr | better start finding the crucial apps to isntall | 20:14 |
| amr | install* | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | amr: consider your life forever changed ;) | 20:14 |
| amr | well, i had a 770 but that had a rather short life | 20:14 |
| amr | what with 2 WSODs :p | 20:14 |
| GAN800 | amr, list is on the wiki. | 20:14 |
| amr | cheers | 20:14 |
| GAN800 | Get somebody who's not currently on a tablet to locate it for you. ;) | 20:14 |
| amr | hah, its ok | 20:15 |
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| amr | got it | 20:15 |
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| coldboot | How can I find out what version of Qt is in Chinook? | 20:18 |
| coldboot | I can't find libqtcore4 anywhere in the repositories. | 20:18 |
| coldboot | I don't have Chinook installed, I already have Diablo on all of my devices. | 20:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | coldboot: um | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | Qt was never shipped by Nokia | 20:20 |
| coldboot | Found it | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | so the version would be Undefined | 20:20 |
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| GAN800 | Whatever's in Chinook Extras. | 20:21 |
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| coldboot | It's in extras-devel | 20:21 |
| GAN800 | timeless_mbp, how do you feel about bug feeds on the bugzilla index page? | 20:22 |
| timeless_mbp | not opposed | 20:22 |
| timeless_mbp | not sure how useful it is for an average visitor | 20:22 |
| GAN800 | Well, the thing that bothers me about bug trackers is that there's no obvious way to get started for new users. | 20:23 |
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| coldboot | It seems Diablo has qt here: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/q/ | 20:23 |
| GAN800 | You can search (for what?) or file a bug. | 20:23 |
| coldboot | But Chinook doesn't have Qt at all... | 20:23 |
| GAN800 | coldboot, Chinook is old and lame. | 20:24 |
| coldboot | I'm trying to install an older version of Qt. | 20:24 |
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| GAN800 | Anyway, bug feeds sort of give you somerthing obvious to start with. | 20:25 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN800: we're hunting dinner | 20:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't mind a feed | 20:27 |
| GAN800 | The current situation feels a bit like visiting internettablettalk.com and only having a search box and a toolbar. | 20:27 |
| timeless_mbp | but how do you pick a feed? | 20:27 |
| timeless_mbp | bugs filed today? | 20:27 |
| timeless_mbp | popular bugs? | 20:27 |
| * GAN800 just had leftover pasta for lunch. | 20:27 | |
| timeless_mbp | old bugs? | 20:27 |
| timeless_mbp | keep in mind that if you offer popular bugs, you're encouraging "me too"syndrome | 20:28 |
| GAN800 | 5-10 most recent, then 5-10 severity/priority/something. | 20:28 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not sure how to write that query | 20:29 |
| timeless_mbp | but ok :) | 20:29 |
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| GAN800 | Most recent would be good enough for me, honestly. | 20:29 |
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| coldboot | Where can you get gnu make from on the nokia n810? | 21:31 |
| luke-jr | probably depends on OS | 21:31 |
| luke-jr | it's included with Gentoo | 21:31 |
| coldboot | Yeah it's fine on my system, but Maemo Diablo doesn't seem to have gnu make in its repository. | 21:32 |
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| inz | coldboot, sure it is there | 21:32 |
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| AStorm | jeremiah_, how it's going with the port? :) | 21:32 |
| coldboot | inz: What repositories do you have setup in /etc/apt/sources.list? | 21:33 |
| andrewfblack | Hello | 21:34 |
| inz | coldboot, the one you can find make from is http://respository.maemo.org/ diablo/tools free | 21:34 |
| Stskeeps | lo andrewfblack :) | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | how is it going? | 21:35 |
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| andrewfblack | not back just finished update to minimalist 2.0 | 21:35 |
| andrewfblack | I think most people will be happy now | 21:35 |
| coldboot | inz: That's exactly it, it says "no installation candidate" when I already had that line in my sources.list. | 21:37 |
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| inz | coldboot, well make can be found in http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/sdk/free/binary-armel/Packages | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | andrewfblack: is it possible to satisfy people? :P | 21:39 |
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| coldboot | inz: You just do "apt-get install make", right? | 21:41 |
| coldboot | So it's in the sdk, then. | 21:44 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: That builds really quickly now | 21:50 |
| fiferboy | Now to test if the .so file works on the device... | 21:50 |
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| fiferboy | Less than five minutes after the initial build if I only change one file. | 21:52 |
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| lbt | fiferboy: is that using scratchbox? | 22:01 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Yes, in a virtualbox session | 22:02 |
| lbt | 'k | 22:02 |
| lbt | I'm using qemu and it's a fair bit longer but not silly | 22:02 |
| fiferboy | But I may have goofed. The latest SVN is qt 4.5.1, and I only have 4.5.0 on my tablet | 22:02 |
| lbt | hmm no, 1 file is about 5 minutes | 22:02 |
| fiferboy | It is complaining about different library versions | 22:03 |
| lbt | heh - I have the advantage that I'm eating my own dogfood... | 22:03 |
| Proteous | Mmmm, dogfood | 22:03 |
| fiferboy | Yes, I didn't want to build all the packages so I am caught | 22:03 |
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| fiferboy | I may have to rollback my svn checkout to 4.5.0 and start over | 22:04 |
| fiferboy | Unless Antonio has the 4.5.1 packages building for tonight | 22:04 |
| coldboot | Why does the vim installed on a nokia n810 not have working home and end keys? | 22:05 |
| coldboot | A lot of the keys are mapped wrong. | 22:05 |
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| kfx | coldboot: it's not vim, it's vi, and the keys are like that because the n810 doesn't have a proper TERMCAP | 22:07 |
| lbt | fiferboy: it's not so bad... a build takes overnight in sbox on a quick machine IIRC | 22:08 |
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| coldboot | kfx: I've installed Vim, confirmed Vim 7.1, and it's still got messed up keys. | 22:08 |
| coldboot | kfx: I'm also sshed in. | 22:09 |
| fiferboy | lbt: I have left a build going over night, and it eventually get to the last mega-linking stage and sits there for about four hours | 22:09 |
| fiferboy | I have never gotten past that. | 22:09 |
| lbt | hmmm .... more memory | 22:09 |
| lbt | I bet your virtualbox is swapping in the link phase | 22:09 |
| kfx | coldboot: do echo $TERM | 22:10 |
| lbt | why use virtualbox? | 22:10 |
| fiferboy | I don't have enough memory to give virtualbox | 22:10 |
| fiferboy | Because I have a Windows laptop (work) and an x64 Linux home machine. | 22:10 |
| coldboot | kfx: I changed it to xterm, because it was set to screen, what should it be? | 22:10 |
| fiferboy | I have never gotten scratchbox to work in x64 | 22:10 |
| kfx | coldboot: not sure, I don't have my device on me | 22:11 |
| kfx | but vim uses $TERM to decide all kinds of stuff, including keymappings | 22:11 |
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| coldboot | kfx: It's set to xterm by default, which is messed up. | 22:12 |
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| lbt | fiferboy: worth checking out qemu at home then | 22:19 |
| lbt | the binaries I send you are from the OBS based builder for Mer | 22:20 |
| fiferboy | lbt: I will check it out. Especially now that you have Qt compiling without scratchbox detects | 22:20 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: Did you follow the QEMU N8x0 presentation to get set up? | 22:24 |
| lbt | which? | 22:24 |
| fiferboy | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2008/09/20/maemo-in-qemu-n8x0-emulation-presentation/ | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | fiferboy: we actually use full user-level emulation of ARM in general, it talks directly to host kernel :) | 22:24 |
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| fiferboy | Stskeeps: Is there any documentation on setting this up? I presume it is for Mer purposes? | 22:25 |
| lbt | fiferboy: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build | 22:25 |
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| Macer | well | 22:26 |
| Macer | being a safe driver has finally paid off | 22:26 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Thanks | 22:26 |
| Macer | instead of having to go to the hell known as the dmv. i was able to renew my license online and get a sticker to put on the back of it :) | 22:26 |
| Macer | not sure if anybody has ever read dante. where he reaches the 8th ring and has sees the people standing in the eternal dmv line | 22:27 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe, probably the people working at dmv :P | 22:32 |
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| inz | coldboot, ah, tools/sdk, yes, that's what I meant to write | 22:43 |
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| inz | coldboot, 'twas a thinko | 22:43 |
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| coldboot | haha | 22:48 |
| coldboot | Good one | 22:48 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: no. the workers are the demons | 22:49 |
| Macer | i don't know how the dmv is there.. but here it is hell incarnate | 22:49 |
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| Macer | it used to be worse when i first got my license. if you got to the dmv 2 hours before it opened. there would be a line going around the block. and that is just the PRE line | 22:49 |
| Macer | you go through this 3 hours line.. and arrive at the center desk for judgement | 22:50 |
| Macer | and there are 3 places you can go.. dante described them all | 22:50 |
| Macer | one is you get to go into this "express line" which for whatever reason i never learned what virtues you must have to be placed into this blessed line | 22:50 |
| Macer | (heaven) | 22:51 |
| Macer | the other option is another 5 hour line where you move at the rate of 1 person per every 10 minutes (purgatory) | 22:51 |
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| amr | n810 bought and paid for | 22:52 |
| amr | \o | 22:52 |
| Macer | option 3 is that you do not have the proper paperwork and wind up having to go home and can either make the attempt to come back the same day or just bring it the next day where they find something else is wrong (hell) | 22:52 |
| lbt | wow.... we go for a test when we're 16/17 and renew our license when we're nearly blind | 22:52 |
| lbt | takes 30 mins | 22:52 |
| lbt | once... ever | 22:52 |
| Macer | lbt: well.. it isn't so bad here anymore. it's around a 4 hour adventure.. but about 6 years ago it was an all day affair | 22:52 |
| lbt | live free ... die old and in a line | 22:53 |
| Macer | lbt: yup | 22:53 |
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| lbt | and not so much of the live free these days ;) | 22:53 |
| Macer | wait.. let me check my threat level widget | 22:53 |
| Macer | yup. still yellow :) | 22:53 |
| Macer | hahaha | 22:53 |
| lbt | yellow.... scared | 22:53 |
| Macer | what a load of shit | 22:53 |
| Macer | yello = "significant risk of terrorist attack" | 22:54 |
| Macer | it has been yellow or higher since 2001 | 22:54 |
| Macer | i wonder if tsa runs the terror meter | 22:54 |
| Macer | i tell you. this profit off fear this is the ultimate racket | 22:57 |
| Stskeeps | old and proven though | 22:58 |
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| lbt | this one: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1501 | 22:58 |
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| coldboot | Can you download built versions of Qt for maemo? | 23:09 |
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| coldboot | I want to get Qt 4.4 instead of 4.5 that comes with Diablo. | 23:09 |
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| Razumihin | Is there any alternative mapping programs besides the maemo mapper? | 23:18 |
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| zs | "Use of internet tablet to control Lego Mindstorms NXT mobile robot" is this sentence correct? | 23:19 |
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| luke-jr | Razumihin: there is not a single good mapping program, it seems :< | 23:22 |
| luke-jr | coldboot: IIRC, Qt 4.4 doesn't work on ARM | 23:22 |
| coldboot | It's in the maemo repository... | 23:22 |
| coldboot | https://garage.maemo.org/svn/qt4/trunk/qt4-x11-4.4.0/ | 23:22 |
| Pavlov | i'm pretty sure i built qt on arm about 9 or 10 months ago | 23:23 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: I rolled SVN back to 4.5.0 for the time being. I will try QEMU sometime later. | 23:24 |
| lbt | sure | 23:24 |
| lbt | maybe post gitorious ? | 23:24 |
| fiferboy | I'm going to play around with some of the default values, and maybe look at writing accessors. | 23:24 |
| lbt | you could start that off if you wanted... | 23:25 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Probably. | 23:25 |
| fiferboy | I saw you glance my way in that email. | 23:25 |
| lbt | :D | 23:25 |
| fiferboy | I'll have to read up on GIT, I'm really not familiar with CVS/SVN/GIT past a simple checkout | 23:26 |
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| lbt | ah, I thought you were | 23:26 |
| lbt | well, the docs are good ;) | 23:26 |
| fiferboy | I'll take a look at them. | 23:26 |
| fiferboy | I might as well learn SOME version control system. | 23:27 |
| lbt | http://git-scm.com/ | 23:27 |
| fiferboy | Thanks. I'll look at it tonight. I'll probably solicite advice from the mailing list if I am going to start something. | 23:28 |
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| Macer | ugh i hate ncis without kate | 23:28 |
| Macer | it isn't as funny anymore | 23:28 |
| Macer | what a let down | 23:28 |
| fiferboy | lbt: I'll talk to you about it tomorrow, no doubt. | 23:30 |
| fiferboy | I've got to go now. | 23:30 |
| lbt | l8r then | 23:30 |
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| luke-jr | does the N810 mic totally suck? | 23:37 |
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| Razumihin | afaik not. | 23:38 |
| Razumihin | Havent tried it lately though. | 23:38 |
| luke-jr | maybe just the driver then | 23:38 |
| luke-jr | :/ | 23:38 |
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| Razumihin | try using alsamixer :) | 23:39 |
| luke-jr | I did | 23:39 |
| luke-jr | what am I supposed to change? | 23:39 |
| Razumihin | I think the first capture device is the mic | 23:39 |
| Razumihin | Wait a sec i open it up. | 23:39 |
| luke-jr | 80 different settings in alsamixer | 23:39 |
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| luke-jr | Razumihin: I managed to get the mic, but with a significant delay and crappy quality | 23:40 |
| Razumihin | Mic1 is the mic volume | 23:40 |
| Razumihin | hmm... dunno. tried rebooting? That helps for sound problems for me. | 23:40 |
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| luke-jr | there is no Mic1 | 23:42 |
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| Razumihin | hmm... i have :P | 23:42 |
| Razumihin | N810 and latest firmware. | 23:43 |
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| Razumihin | My alsamixer is running on chrooted debian as far as i remember... | 23:43 |
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| luke-jr | Razumihin: whatever "latest firmware" means | 23:44 |
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| Razumihin | Don't remember the version ;) But i reinstalled OS2008 half a month ago :) | 23:45 |
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| GAN800 | lardman, ping? | 23:49 |
| GAN800 | if any Talk mods are around, can you lock the New browser thread? | 23:49 |
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| lardman | GAN800: pong | 23:52 |
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| GAN800 | lardman, can you lock the New browser thread? | 23:52 |
| lardman | yeah hang on | 23:53 |
| luke-jr | Razumihin: so Maemo stuff | 23:54 |
| luke-jr | http://rafb.net/p/ZDCeEb29.html <-- my mixer things | 23:54 |
| lardman | is there a problem with the content? Looks quite civalised to me...? | 23:54 |
| lardman | s/civalised/civilised | 23:54 |
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| GAN800 | lardman, gravedig | 23:57 |
| GAN800 | Filled with old irrelevant information that doesn't need bumping. | 23:57 |
| GAN800 | Poster should start a new thread or find something recent. | 23:57 |
| lardman | ok, I understand that, but it doens't do any harm | 23:58 |
| lardman | if they want to rant in there, let them I say | 23:58 |
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| lardman | I'm happy to close a thread if it's turned personal, etc., but if they just want to dredge up the past then let them I say | 23:58 |
| lardman | My apologies | 23:58 |
| GAN800 | It's a dead thread that doesn't need to be restarted. | 23:58 |
| lardman | ah, I see | 23:59 |
| GAN800 | Meh, reported it, somebody else will do my bidding. | 23:59 |
| lardman | lol | 23:59 |
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