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| x29a | hm, how would i get curl? | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| x29a | somehow my apt-get doesnt know about too many packages | 00:03 |
| lcuk | add moar repositories | 00:05 |
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| x29a | lcuk: which ones? | 00:07 |
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| mavhc | isn't curl built in, just with an odd name? | 00:10 |
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| x29a | mavhc: tell me more! | 00:11 |
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| tank-man | x29a, have you enabled the extras repo? | 00:23 |
| x29a | yes | 00:23 |
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| mavhc | maemo-mini-curl perhaps | 00:34 |
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| x29a | mavhc: hm, true, but it doesnt support what i need, bummer | 00:51 |
| x29a | in principle itd be all fine if openvpn was more up2date | 00:51 |
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| pupnik_ | can ext3 storee files bigger than 1.2GB? | 00:59 |
| pupnik_ | my vmware image download died at 1.2GB twice | 00:59 |
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| mikkov_ | pupnik_: yes it can | 01:06 |
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| pupnik_ | k | 01:06 |
| pupnik_ | 3rd attempt | 01:06 |
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| jaem | do we have Mono support for Maemo, or do I have to wait for Mer? | 01:31 |
| jaem | also, does it run well enough to be useful? | 01:31 |
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| yandere | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=287709&postcount=119 -- hahahahaha!!!!!!! | 01:42 |
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| mavhc | managed code + 128MB ram = fail | 02:06 |
| pupnik_ | hohoho | 02:06 |
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| jaem | mavhc: that's kind of what I figured | 02:13 |
| jaem | huh... some crazy physicists figure they can make something to see through a virtual hole in the wall, with cloaking technology | 02:15 |
| jaem | http://arxiv.org/abs/0905.1484 | 02:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jaem, sipphone.com is a better VoIP solution if you don't have a lot of other people using Skype. | 02:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Open standards. | 02:25 |
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| jaem | GeneralAntilles: I fully agree on the Open Standards part, but I do have a bunch of Skype contacts, and although some of them would be sympathetic to that point, their contacts may not | 02:26 |
| jaem | does sipphone.com have cheap calling to real phones? | 02:26 |
| GAN800 | jaem, marginally cheaper than Skype. | 02:29 |
| GAN800 | You can use rtcomm which is a big plus. | 02:29 |
| jaem | yeah, that's what I was thinking | 02:29 |
| jaem | when you say cheaper, are you referring to per-minute billing, or do they have subscriptions, too? | 02:30 |
| GAN800 | Per-minute | 02:30 |
| jaem | darn | 02:30 |
| jaem | that's out, then | 02:30 |
| GAN800 | Don't think they have subscriptions but I'm not sure. | 02:30 |
| jaem | I already pay too much for my cell, and I can only afford Skype as well because of the subscriptions | 02:30 |
| GAN800 | You use that many minutes? | 02:31 |
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| jaem | I use enough on average that it's still significantly cheaper | 02:31 |
| GAN800 | Ah | 02:31 |
| jaem | but nowhere near the 10,000 minute/month limit | 02:31 |
| jaem | what I had thought of doing was setting one of the unlimited calling numbers on my cell (plan feature) to my dorm landline, and then routing calls through Skype | 02:32 |
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| jaem | but I don't have the PSTN hardware, and I couldn't find a free Skype gateway | 02:32 |
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| jaem | (in software, that is) | 02:33 |
| jaem | lol @ http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2072/3531235979_c1508edcf8_o.png | 02:33 |
| * jaem is rebooting, and will be back after these messages | 02:34 | |
| jaem | Message from our sponsors: System is going down for reboot NOW | 02:35 |
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| jaem | gah - my touchpad is acting up | 02:44 |
| jaem | conveniently, this laptop is technically on loan, so if it is actually borked, I won't have to pay for a replacement | 02:45 |
| jaem | I've been discussing Todo apps over at #tasque on irc.gnome.org... I haven't found anything yet that I like | 02:47 |
| jaem | DoneIt for maemo seems promising | 02:47 |
| jaem | but DoneIt isn't Done | 02:47 |
| kfx | I've been banging my head against finding useful groupware that can sync with maemo apps | 02:47 |
| kfx | almost got it working with funambol+citadel and the pimlico apps | 02:48 |
| kfx | ...but not reliably or well :/ | 02:48 |
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| jaem | hrm | 02:48 |
| jaem | Pimlico is pretty barebones...] | 02:48 |
| jaem | otherwise it would be okay | 02:48 |
| jaem | but the calendar app can't even do repeating events :S | 02:49 |
| jaem | is development on Pimlico still happening? | 02:49 |
| kfx | no idea | 02:49 |
| kfx | I can't find a whole lot that's been worked on in a year or two | 02:49 |
| kfx | I'd use gpe if it integrated at all with anything else on the device | 02:50 |
| jaem | same here | 02:50 |
| jaem | but it just doesn't | 02:50 |
| kfx | on the other hand, pimlico stuff is GPL | 02:50 |
| jaem | there are so many PIM suites out there, and aside from a few desktop-oriented suites, and a few individual programs, everything seems half-finished, abandoned, or just not what I'm looking for | 02:51 |
| jaem | kfx: true, but I'm not up to that atm | 02:51 |
| kfx | jaem: neither am I but I'm getting there fast | 02:51 |
| jaem | I learned coding on useless languages of the MS variety, and haven't had nearly enough experience with anything else to do much on Linux yet | 02:52 |
| kfx | I'll probably wrench calendar source out of jpilot and cram it into dates | 02:52 |
| jaem | speaking of, I need to get some studying done in that area ;) | 02:52 |
| kfx | then make the sync backend speak something more modern, like ical 2.0 | 02:52 |
| jaem | lol | 02:52 |
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| torkiano | hello, I get this error when ./configure: | 02:55 |
| jaem_afk-ish | kfx: you should use bogobogosort in it somewhere | 02:55 |
| torkiano | Makefile.am:6: HAVE_GNOME_DOC_UTILS does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL | 02:55 |
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| jaem_afk-ish | kfx: the author of that algorithm said a 7-element array didn't finish sorting when he left it overnight | 02:55 |
| jaem_afk-ish | XD | 02:55 |
| jaem_afk-ish | torkiano: which app? | 02:55 |
| torkiano | jaem_afk-ish, is a personal app | 02:56 |
| jaem_afk-ish | kfx: http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/bogobogosort.html | 02:56 |
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| jaem_afk-ish | torkiano: I'm not the one to ask, sorry | 02:57 |
| torkiano | jaem_afk-ish, no problem | 02:57 |
| * jaem_afk-ish is pingable, but not fully here | 02:57 | |
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| kfx | jaem_N810: if I did that then I'd more likely parallelize it and run it on the university cluster | 03:06 |
| kfx | ...which is why I don't code a lot these days. | 03:06 |
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| pupnik_ | talk is cheap | 03:15 |
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| jaem_N810 | kfx: I don't know about your uni, but I don't think mine would give me time on one of their clusters to run recursive bogosort | 03:21 |
| jaem_N810 | lol | 03:21 |
| jaem_N810 | apparently there are long waits and short usage times as it is | 03:22 |
| jaem_N810 | pupnik_: except on cell phones in Canada | 03:22 |
| pupnik_ | ok | 03:23 |
| pupnik_ | o/ | 03:23 |
| pupnik_ | some talk isn't cheap | 03:23 |
| kfx | jaem_N810: oh, they'd get cranky about it, but I run the cluster | 03:24 |
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| GAN800 | I don't know why Intel has to be evil by bringing the x86 blight to mobile devicres. | 03:26 |
| GAN800 | s/cres/ces/ | 03:27 |
| infobot | GAN800 meant: I don't know why Intel has to be evil by bringing the x86 blight to mobile devices. | 03:27 |
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| samueldr | s/a/ | 03:28 |
| samueldr | s/a// | 03:28 |
| infobot | samueldr meant: s// | 03:28 |
| samueldr | heyhey, nice | 03:28 |
| jaem_N810 | nice | 03:28 |
| samueldr | s/*/bacon/ | 03:28 |
| kkrusty | hello, does anyone know a good working application for rememberthemilk or any other task management site? | 03:28 |
| jaem_N810 | that has advantages ;) | 03:28 |
| kkrusty | zutun doesnt install and Doneit doesnt run | 03:29 |
| jaem_N810 | now we need *distributed* recursive bogosort | 03:29 |
| kkrusty | anyone? | 03:30 |
| jaem_N810 | so that people all over the world can help us reach the ultimate goal of sorting a 100-element array before the universe ends | 03:30 |
| jaem_N810 | okay, that number was pulled out of thin air, but the time complexity of bogobogosort is painful | 03:30 |
| samueldr | if we're lucky, the first iteration will be sorted | 03:30 |
| jaem_N810 | kkrusty: DoneIt is in its early stages | 03:32 |
| jaem_N810 | hence it being in extras-devel | 03:32 |
| jaem_N810 | aside from those two, I think there is an app that allows task entry only on the Garage, but I can't think of the name | 03:32 |
| jaem_N810 | I'd hold out for DoneIt | 03:33 |
| kkrusty | jaem_N810: okay. I'll hold out for it then | 03:33 |
| kkrusty | jaem_N810: by task entry you mean that you cant view the tasks? | 03:34 |
| kkrusty | jaem_N810: uh nevermind. Thanks for answering my question | 03:35 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, when did ctrl-l stop working in xchat in maemo... | 03:53 |
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| jaem_N810 | is Maemo Garage built from scratch, or running a prexisting engine of some sort? | 03:55 |
| jaem_N810 | it looks SF.net-ish | 03:55 |
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| GAN8001 | jaem_N810, GForge | 03:59 |
| GAN8001 | and it's maemo.org Garage. :P | 03:59 |
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| derf | http://blogs.sun.com/CoreJavaTechTips/entry/superduper_slow_jar | 04:04 |
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| b-man | so far everything is working fine, allthough yum is driving me crazy because i haven't figured out how to add repos to /etc/yum.repos.d/ :P | 04:12 |
| b-man | it's a bit complicated - but i'll figure it out :) | 04:13 |
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| Macer | anybody around? | 07:07 |
| Macer | was wondering if anybody here used samba much? | 07:07 |
| ShadowJK | not much.. | 07:08 |
| Macer | hm. was going to try to set it up as a pdc and see about getting multiple operating systems to use it for auth etc | 07:10 |
| slonopotamus | mooorning | 07:10 |
| ShadowJK | ah I haven't used any auth stuff at all | 07:12 |
| ShadowJK | just moving files | 07:12 |
| Macer | heh | 07:12 |
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| luke-jr | meh | 07:22 |
| luke-jr | I left my USB cable in the car I think | 07:23 |
| luke-jr | guess 2.6.30 will wait | 07:23 |
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| slonopotamus | luke-jr, hi, luke | 07:31 |
| luke-jr | hi | 07:31 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, i think first version of open-wlan-cal is ready :) | 07:32 |
| luke-jr | that's nice | 07:32 |
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| ShadowJK | did you get any replies to the keyboard issue with new kernel? | 07:41 |
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| Macer | huh? | 07:49 |
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| ara_ara_ufufu|wo | Hey does anyone know how can I run a program on start up on the maemo n810? | 07:54 |
| ara_ara_ufufu|wo | I've tried creating rc.local under /etc/init.d, and ran update-rc.d rc.local defaults, but it doesn't seem to work =/ | 07:55 |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: just a "same here" | 08:04 |
| ShadowJK | ah :/ | 08:05 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, wanna be my first tester? :P | 08:05 |
| luke-jr | no | 08:05 |
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| Meiz_n810 | My n810 broke itself while i was sleeping | 08:36 |
| Stskeeps | hmm? | 08:38 |
| RST38h | gadget suicide? | 08:38 |
| robink | My N810 is just about out of juice. | 08:40 |
| Meiz_n810 | i just plugged charger in, left it on my desk, in the morning it has two small cracks in topright corner | 08:40 |
| Meiz_n810 | but i must be really lucky because the screen is still working | 08:41 |
| robink | I forgot my charger. I'm in Colorado. | 08:41 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: earthquake? :P | 08:41 |
| Meiz_n810 | heh, no such thing in finland :P | 08:42 |
| Stskeeps | even .dk has them :P | 08:42 |
| Meiz_n810 | i really wonder what broke the screen... | 08:42 |
| Meiz_n810 | but cracks are inside, right below the touch level | 08:43 |
| Stskeeps | good question | 08:43 |
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| Stskeeps | i guess a photo would be more illustrative | 08:43 |
| Meiz_n810 | oh, i'm so happy it's still working :) | 08:43 |
| Meiz_n810 | yup, i will take photo when i get home | 08:44 |
| Meiz_n810 | school :/ | 08:44 |
| RST38h | Meiz: Family members? | 08:44 |
| Meiz_n810 | i don't thinks so | 08:45 |
| RST38h | Dunno, that would be my first guess | 08:46 |
| thux | morning | 08:46 |
| thux | Meiz_n810: hope you can get new screen | 08:47 |
| Meiz_n810 | yeah, lets see if warranty covers those cracks :P | 08:48 |
| thux | once one three years old throw my ipaq to the floor and broke it | 08:49 |
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| thux | device with large screen breaks easily | 08:49 |
| thux | even in pocket if they touch keys or something | 08:50 |
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| RST38h | do not carry it in the sam epocket with keys. | 08:55 |
| thux | i red about some .fi student who got 30.000e via iphone app store | 08:56 |
| thux | he said that iphone apps is much easier to do than symbian app is it true? | 08:57 |
| Stskeeps | symbian development is similar to poking your eyes out, so i guess anything's better.. | 08:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:57 |
| thux | hehe | 08:58 |
| Macer | haha | 08:58 |
| thux | also apple takes apps from private persons | 08:58 |
| Macer | they take apps from private persons? :) | 08:59 |
| thux | nokia doesn't he said | 08:59 |
| thux | with nokia you had to have company | 08:59 |
| Macer | like a job that takes all things made by employees as their own "proprietary" stuff? | 08:59 |
| Macer | i hate it when tv shows get military things wrong | 09:00 |
| thux | both return 70% to dev | 09:00 |
| Macer | like a marine officer with a giant shiny rank insignia on his cover | 09:00 |
| * RST38h heardabout people winning millions in lottery | 09:01 | |
| thux | this same guy also complaint that n5800 doesn't have 3d accel | 09:01 |
| thux | and his games need that | 09:02 |
| RST38h | creating a company isn't a big deal | 09:02 |
| thux | in .fi it is | 09:02 |
| liri | canola2 beta from the repos isn't working well for me (it hangs while playing an mp3). where should I find (in which repos) a stable version maybe? | 09:03 |
| thux | you have to pay taxes and such | 09:03 |
| RST38h | Few hundred bucks and you have got a nice Delaware-registered company | 09:03 |
| RST38h | thux: Who cares about .fi? Nokia just wants a company | 09:03 |
| Macer | lol | 09:04 |
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| RST38h | liri: run canola-cleanup then reinstall | 09:04 |
| thux | RST38h: but if you are here and spend your money here | 09:04 |
| RST38h | thux: Having a company has absolutely no relation to where you spend money | 09:04 |
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| thux | it it possible to use off-shore company but costly for student | 09:04 |
| liri | RST38h: how do I re-install it? (just to remove, then install or is there a quicker way?) | 09:05 |
| RST38h | thux: So, you have got yourself an international company | 09:05 |
| RST38h | thux: As I said, registration related stuff is just a few hundred bucks | 09:05 |
| RST38h | liri: You install it with app manager (make sure you remove extras-devel from the list) | 09:05 |
| thux | RST38h: no not me, but know people who have them in jersey or gibraltar | 09:05 |
| RST38h | liri: You remove it with canola-cleanup | 09:05 |
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| RST38h | thux: Company that isn't making money costs you next to nothing | 09:06 |
| RST38h | thux: So, register one wherever it is cheap and does not incur annual costs, then present yourself to Nokia as a company | 09:06 |
| liri | RST38h: ok. doesn't look like I have that canola-cleanup script | 09:06 |
| RST38h | liri: Extras. | 09:06 |
| liri | RST38h: I have canola, canolad and canola-thumbnailer | 09:07 |
| liri | RST38h: a sec | 09:07 |
| thux | RST38h: but you need offshore bank accounts and such and these app developers try to make money | 09:07 |
| liri | RST38h: I have extras enabled | 09:08 |
| RST38h | thux: No. | 09:09 |
| RST38h | thux: Although you can probably just open one in a US bank, it won't cost you | 09:09 |
| thux | ok that i didn't know | 09:09 |
| thux | just heard about gibraltar swizz and jersey banks | 09:10 |
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| RST38h | You are talking tax evasion | 09:14 |
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| RST38h | You are not going to evade taxes. You just want a company. | 09:14 |
| liri | RST38h: that canola-cleanup isn't found | 09:15 |
| RST38h | Anyways, I am not sure why you would even NEED to get yourself into Nokia Store | 09:15 |
| RST38h | Do you think it will make your application sell more? | 09:15 |
| thux | i just red the story from newspaper and it said so | 09:17 |
| thux | that's why asked why is iphone game developing easier than symbian? | 09:17 |
| thux | also wondering why nokia doesn't use 3d accel? | 09:18 |
| locutus | 'licensing issues' | 09:18 |
| thux | ok so writing is as hard in both cases? | 09:19 |
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| RST38h | thux: The newspaper lied | 09:20 |
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| RST38h | http://gadgetblips.dailyradar.com/story/the_life_of_an_iphone_app_nasty_brutish_and_short/ | 09:21 |
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| liri | ok I just un-installed canola from the app manager (it was canola2-beta-2.0.011 or something) | 09:22 |
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| RST38h | http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=22177 | 09:22 |
| RST38h | http://techblips.dailyradar.com/story/iphone_app_developers_threaten_to_sue_apple_over_late/ | 09:23 |
| RST38h | Off to work =) | 09:23 |
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| thux | RST38h: the story was about this software http://macmaa.com/2009/05/17/suomalainenkin-iphone-kehittaja-voi-tienata-hyvin/ | 09:28 |
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| ShadowJK | <thux> you have to pay taxes and such | 09:39 |
| ShadowJK | I think you can setup a Tmi with minimal in fees and you don't pay taxes unless you make more than 1000E profit, I think... | 09:39 |
| ShadowJK | it was something like that :) | 09:39 |
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| thux | ShadowJK: yes :) but this pajazzo guy made 30.000e | 09:41 |
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| thux | but software money is theoretical to me cause i don't write #include <iostream> :) just envy how others get rich by making software | 09:44 |
| ShadowJK | I hope nokia has woken up to branding now | 09:46 |
| ShadowJK | like, how many would know that menu->tools->catalog takes you to something shop-like? | 09:47 |
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| thux | ShadowJK: true, not many i suppose | 09:51 |
| ShadowJK | nevermind that "What's hot" and "What's new" in it are empty... | 09:52 |
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| liri | RST38h: thanks, installing canola-cleanup, executing it and re-installing canola2 seems to work, it's playing my music now | 09:53 |
| liri | RST38h: though weird enough, I saw that cleanup script removing like dozen of packages which seem not really related like irreco and others | 09:53 |
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| rm_you | johnx: havent seen you on all day | 09:55 |
| thux | noticed in symbian that there is many clients which at least theorically can do skype, like fring and iskoot and was it implus, but for linux it is only skype which do skype? | 09:56 |
| ShadowJK | heh, Games category is empty too | 09:57 |
| ShadowJK | there's fring for N810 too... I heard it sucks :P | 09:57 |
| ShadowJK | so like.. over half of the categories in "Catalog" were empty | 10:00 |
| ShadowJK | which is just silly, because I'm sure they could find some crap to put there | 10:00 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, it's marginally better through the wap browser (which is in media->services and nowhere near any internet-related items in the menu).. All the download bookmarks are empty and missing, of course, but there's a link to nokia which does have a download section with slightly more stuff... | 10:06 |
| ShadowJK | I remember finding this place with many many things, but I can't figure out where that was in the menus :) | 10:06 |
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| ShadowJK | Oh there's a default link in the "proper" web browser too, to a third shop/download place, again with a handful apps :-) | 10:07 |
| thux | ShadowJK: what phone you have or is it same in all s60s? | 10:11 |
| ShadowJK | E70 | 10:11 |
| ShadowJK | and I bet it's different for every damn phone :) | 10:11 |
| thux | hehe | 10:12 |
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| Stskeeps | andre_k: 3635 is actually fixed and 4560 is a cause of it being open sourced :) | 11:23 |
| andre_k | 3635 is already fixed?! | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it is | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | alarmd is in beta | 11:24 |
| andre_k | great. | 11:24 |
| andre_k | seems like nokia didn't realize themselves :-P | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | i'm just complaining cos they didn't go the whole way :) | 11:24 |
| andre_k | okay. yeah, i see. | 11:25 |
| andre_k | nice | 11:25 |
| Stskeeps | (see http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/a/alarmd/ ) | 11:25 |
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| andre_k | uh uh uh :) | 11:25 |
| * RST38h moos slightly | 11:26 | |
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| suihkulokki | apt-get moo | 11:33 |
| Meiz_n810 | aptitude moo | 11:35 |
| Meiz_n810 | aptitude -v moo | 11:35 |
| Meiz_n810 | and so on | 11:35 |
| Meiz_n810 | :) | 11:35 |
| RST38h | mount /mnt/moo | 11:36 |
| RST38h | unmount /mnt/moo | 11:36 |
| RST38h | fsck /mnt/moo | 11:36 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, if i mount daisy she goes moo | 12:05 |
| RST38h | Umgh. | 12:08 |
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| Macer | can somene tell me a comcast dns? | 12:18 |
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| thux | is frozen bubble for maemo? | 12:25 |
| RST38h | there are versions for different systems | 12:25 |
| RST38h | including one for maemo | 12:25 |
| thux | cool, just found frozen bubble for symbian | 12:26 |
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| crashanddie | if I want to buy a new battery for my n810, where should I go? | 12:31 |
| crashanddie | ebay seems a bit dodgy, just dash out £20 for a genuine Nokia battery? | 12:31 |
| lcuk | yes | 12:35 |
| lcuk | and get a new case while you are at it :p | 12:35 |
| crashanddie | what, the traveling poach? | 12:35 |
| lcuk | yeah :D | 12:35 |
| lcuk | i really like your idea btw | 12:35 |
| crashanddie | does Nokia actually sell a "reckless pack" ? | 12:35 |
| lcuk | its very different :) | 12:35 |
| crashanddie | charger + battery + stylus + poach? | 12:36 |
| lcuk | oh, i dunno about all that | 12:36 |
| crashanddie | would be pretty handy :D | 12:36 |
| lcuk | indeed it would | 12:36 |
| lcuk | but the number of people who lose all that and need it replacing at the same time can be counted on one (broken) finger | 12:37 |
| * lcuk looks @ u | 12:37 | |
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| Macer | wow | 12:50 |
| Macer | nexenta has me about to just start ripping hair out by the roots | 12:50 |
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| RST38h | "Don't get mad. Get even." | 12:53 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: that would leave a trail of carnage behind me | 12:54 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: As long as the last mile is untraceable you are ok =) | 12:55 |
| lcuk | and providing you dont leave your id behind | 12:55 |
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| Macer | ahhhhh!! | 12:58 |
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| Macer | finally. fixed it | 13:02 |
| Macer | what a bastard :) | 13:02 |
| florian | good morning | 13:05 |
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| lbt | dneary: hi... | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: how come? | 13:22 |
| lbt | did you see my WikiTalk email? | 13:23 |
| dneary | hi lbt | 13:25 |
| dneary | Yeah - I'm going to be jumping into that thread this morning | 13:25 |
| dneary | lbt: Nice idea | 13:25 |
| dneary | I would be wary of things like navigation - where do new pages get linked from? Will we get a lot of new pages? | 13:26 |
| lbt | Oh, it has the potential to create a real mess! | 13:26 |
| dneary | We'd also need to be aware of editing issues - how to deal with duplicates? Merge articles? Indicate that an article had already been wikified? | 13:26 |
| lbt | yes... I mentioned some of those problems | 13:26 |
| lbt | and there are more | 13:26 |
| dneary | indeed | 13:26 |
| lbt | OTOH I think it may motivate the sifting | 13:27 |
| lbt | and things like automating some tags | 13:27 |
| lbt | and strongly suggesting a process | 13:27 |
| lbt | should help | 13:27 |
| lbt | eg 'forcing' a search before allowing a page to be auto-made | 13:28 |
| lbt | it's a balance | 13:28 |
| lbt | heh - strongly driven by my distaste for forums as an information store!! | 13:28 |
| Jaffa | Ditto | 13:29 |
| * lbt wonders if he should approach IBM to patent the idea... | 13:32 | |
| lcuk | forums are good for testing and feedback and perhaps the "wikify me" button shouldnt actually make a wiki entry, but should flag a post as potential, if we have an interface to list them they can be organised as required | 13:38 |
| Jaffa | Sounds good | 13:39 |
| Jaffa | The flag could be a "wikiteam" tag | 13:39 |
| lcuk | also, people happy with forum syntax arent always happy with wiki syntax | 13:39 |
| lcuk | (like me, i can write a simple post, but dont know the first thing about wiki organisation or special things required or layout etc, and tbh dont ever want to have to know | 13:40 |
| * lcuk has enough tihngso n his plate | 13:40 | |
| lcuk | jaffa, sounds simple enough, but would users know to tag something with that | 13:42 |
| lcuk | or will this be a button which behyind the scenes set it (simplest really?) | 13:43 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: I was imagining the latter - but I've not been following lbt's comments too closely | 13:44 |
| Macer | a marine caught in the middle of a family fued in a hillbilly romeo and juliet | 13:44 |
| Macer | lol | 13:44 |
| Macer | that damn hollywood can come up with anything! | 13:44 |
| lcuk | jaffa, ditto, but i came across something over the weekend which seems to fit the bill between something that should be wikified but my fear of the wiki kicked in | 13:45 |
| * lbt has an all-singing proposal.... everything said here makes sense insofar as it's all in the same direction | 13:45 | |
| lcuk | good lbt :) | 13:45 |
| RST38h | macer: what is the body count so far? | 13:45 |
| lbt | at some point we stop refining/automating it | 13:45 |
| lcuk | awww lbt, but that takes time away from our important pontification | 13:46 |
| lbt | adding wikiteam tags is a good start thoug | 13:46 |
| lbt | I would say that I was thinking of a thread-based approach | 13:46 |
| lbt | where the entire thread was dumped into a page | 13:46 |
| lcuk | seems reasonanle | 13:46 |
| lbt | and then slashed back ruthlessly | 13:47 |
| lbt | that's actually *really hard* to do today (AFAIK) | 13:47 |
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| lbt | bbl8r | 13:48 |
| Macer | one brother/uncle | 13:50 |
| Macer | :) | 13:51 |
| Macer | ah well. screw this i'm going to sleep. i was trying to set up ldap in nexenta but it is being a real hair puller | 13:51 |
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| aquatix | Macer: nn | 13:59 |
| pupnik | it's interesting the wide-ranging things ppl want to do with tabletsw | 14:01 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: Just indicates that what people really need is a StarTrek PADD | 14:05 |
| RST38h | That has minimum quirks and "just works" (see iPhone) | 14:05 |
| pupnik | to understand iphone, think of pop music stars | 14:06 |
| pupnik | you solidly hit a lowest-common denominator. some luck involved. mostly marketing. and then you get a feedback cycle in popularity. | 14:06 |
| RST38h | Somehow, I do not think that iPhone qualifies for this theory | 14:07 |
| pupnik | yes, i could be wrong on this | 14:07 |
| RST38h | Funny think is, I do not really know what would qualify for this theory. Feature phones? | 14:09 |
| RST38h | Actually, Samsung+LG in general, and netbooks as a segment | 14:09 |
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| pupnik | don't you think some people bought iphones on the 'popularity' and 'coolness' factor? | 14:10 |
| pupnik | logical-and | 14:10 |
| RST38h | I think most people bought iphones based on hype that was blown out of proportion long BEFORE iPhone went on sale | 14:11 |
| RST38h | But, as we are talking of Steve Jobs with his unique powers to bend reality over, no reasonable theories have to apply here | 14:12 |
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| pupnik | did you like the NeXT RST38h ? | 14:12 |
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| RST38h | Yea, NeXT was cool | 14:13 |
| * RST38h got to use it extensively | 14:14 | |
| pupnik | i persuaded my employer to buy one, but i didn't deliver on the promised software... so argh. | 14:15 |
| pupnik | wanted to use the dsp for accelerated gene-homology searches | 14:15 |
| pupnik | back in the day | 14:15 |
| pupnik | they had a nice fractal browser running on the dsp | 14:15 |
| RST38h | Using NeXT for anything custom wasn't a good idea, it was more or less like a standard Mac | 14:16 |
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| Stskeeps | 'lo jeremiah | 14:19 |
| jeremiah | Hey Stskeeps! | 14:19 |
| jeremiah | How are ya? | 14:19 |
| jeremiah | Nice weather in our part of the world eh? | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | cloudy outside atm :P | 14:20 |
| jeremiah | Here it is pretty sunny. | 14:20 |
| jeremiah | :P | 14:20 |
| pupnik | RST38h: on te contrary, i knew friends who became experts in ObjC and created custom software for major telecoms on NeXT and later NeXTStep | 14:20 |
| jeremiah | NeXT was the bomb. | 14:20 |
| jeremiah | Way ahead of its time | 14:20 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Yes, but you said you wanted low level access to DSP? | 14:20 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: So faw Symbian | 14:21 |
| RST38h | s/faw/was | 14:21 |
| * RST38h cackles evilly | 14:21 | |
| aquatix | epoc ruled | 14:21 |
| rmt | Wie würde man sagen, "Next Run", in Deutsch? .. Where run is a date-triggered event? | 14:21 |
| pupnik | k rtue | 14:23 |
| jeremiah | gengetopt? There is a library in maemo called gengetopt? | 14:23 |
| pupnik | 'naechste ausfuehrung' | 14:23 |
| pupnik | i think | 14:23 |
| pupnik | thought it's ambiguous | 14:23 |
| pupnik | ausfuehrung can also be a product launch | 14:23 |
| pupnik | or rather product run | 14:24 |
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| sanjay6976 | hi | 14:26 |
| lcuk | hi sanjay6976 \o | 14:27 |
| sanjay6976 | applications of which version of maemo sdk is supported by nokia N810 | 14:27 |
| lcuk | diablo 4.1 | 14:27 |
| sanjay6976 | lcuk:hi | 14:27 |
| sanjay6976 | can i put Qt applications over this | 14:28 |
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| lcuk | qt is not yet officially supported, but people have had good results using the qt framework to create apps, see lbt's shopper | 14:29 |
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| rmt | pupnik, In this case, it sends an email.. thanks. | 14:30 |
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| sanjay6976 | k thanks i will check | 14:31 |
| pupnik | note ae = umlaut A and ue = umlaut U | 14:31 |
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| VDVsx | sanjay6976, http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4Hildon | 14:32 |
| VDVsx | forum nokia also have some qt for maemo docs | 14:32 |
| sanjay6976 | VDVsx: thanks i will check the link | 14:33 |
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| chx | Oh wow qt4 on the maemo? nice. | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | old news :) | 14:55 |
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| aspect | is there a way to get os2008 to be verbose on boot? | 15:05 |
| jeremiah | aspect: There should be, and I should know it, but I don't. | 15:06 |
| jeremiah | Some one here will know though. | 15:06 |
| aspect | I have a recurring problem where it sits on the nokia screen with the blue bar at 100% for indeterminate lengths of time, apparently related to trouble reading the vfat on an mmc .. would be nice to have some indication of what's going on | 15:06 |
| jeremiah | aspect: Does it boot? | 15:06 |
| jeremiah | Can you read the logs? | 15:06 |
| aspect | nope, just sits there until I get impatient and remove the battery | 15:07 |
| aspect | I didn't think any useful logs would be kept persistently in that instance | 15:07 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, not sure they would be. | 15:07 |
| jeremiah | So you cannot boot at all? | 15:08 |
| jeremiah | You may need to re-flash you OS. | 15:08 |
| aspect | once I remove the sd card, it boots fine | 15:08 |
| jeremiah | aspect: Ah, okay. | 15:08 |
| jeremiah | Good | 15:08 |
| pupnik | the samsung cheapo mp3 players now use linux + sdl | 15:08 |
| pupnik | love how the GPL forces them to disclose that | 15:09 |
| aspect | and putting the sd card in my laptop and fsck'ing has fixed it in the past .. but it keeps reocurring | 15:09 |
| lcuk | new card? | 15:09 |
| aquatix | and using another card? | 15:09 |
| aspect | old card | 15:09 |
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| aspect | quite old; it came with my 2nd hand n800 about 6 months ago | 15:09 |
| lcuk | try it with a different card | 15:10 |
| lcuk | if that works, throw away the old one and move on | 15:10 |
| lcuk | you have already identified the problem lol | 15:10 |
| aspect | righto | 15:10 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: Do those flash cards die often? | 15:10 |
| jeremiah | I haven't had that yet happen to me. | 15:11 |
| aspect | the laptop hasn't had any issues reading the card, and someone else mentioned a vfat related issue, so I thought it might be that | 15:11 |
| jeremiah | But I don't use a lot of them. | 15:11 |
| jeremiah | And, your original question aspect was getting boot info from the maemo. Does anyone know how to turn off the Nokia boot image so one can see dmesg info? | 15:12 |
| * aspect ordered a new card ~3 weeks ago but the damn retailer screwed up delivery so it's not here yet | 15:12 | |
| RST38h | jeremiah: they do die every now and then | 15:13 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: but you usually do not see it as the card remaps its blocks internally to avoid immediate FAIL | 15:13 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Aha. Kinda clever. :) | 15:13 |
| * aquatix should get a 32GB microsd | 15:14 | |
| aquatix | that'd be... spacy | 15:14 |
| aspect | 8GB is still the decent price point here .. fortunately the n800 can take 2 :) | 15:15 |
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| aquatix | hm, can't seem to find a 32GB microsd one | 15:16 |
| * aquatix has 8GB already | 15:16 | |
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| aspect | right, just retested: laptop can read the sd card without issues, but even after fsck'ing the nit has the same boot problem: is this an indication of a problem with the card that the laptop's tolerant to but not the nit? | 15:20 |
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| aquatix | might be | 15:22 |
| aquatix | maybe just a matter of the laptop having more power for the reader | 15:23 |
| aquatix | you don't have another SD card to test with? | 15:23 |
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| aspect | makes sense | 15:23 |
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| aspect | only one other, but this card went from problematic to fine after a reformat previously so I thought it might be on the fs level. Given how it's behaving now I guess not | 15:24 |
| aspect | (the other's been working fine throughout) | 15:25 |
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| jeremiah | ping khertan | 15:26 |
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| RST38h | aspect: do you use it with an sd size convertor in the tablet? | 15:26 |
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| aspect | RST38h: yes ... I just chucked it in the external mini slot and we're booted ... I was having problems in the external slot before reformatting though | 15:28 |
| RST38h | all right | 15:29 |
| aspect | I also use the converter to mount the card in the laptop, if that makes any difference | 15:29 |
| RST38h | then 70% probability that it is the converter | 15:30 |
| RST38h | N810 is for some reason very sensitive to the converter type | 15:30 |
| aspect | hmm | 15:31 |
| aspect | it's an n800, and that convertor has been used with the other card without issue since I've had the tablet | 15:31 |
| aquatix | the card itself is a minisd? or microsd? | 15:31 |
| aspect | mini | 15:31 |
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| aspect | ok, it's fine if I swap the cards around: 128Mb in the adapter, 1Gb straight on the external slot | 15:33 |
| pupnik | music is sharing of the human experience | 15:33 |
| pupnik | sharing music is holy | 15:33 |
| aquatix | aspect: odd, but great :) | 15:33 |
| aquatix | pupnik: *grin* | 15:33 |
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| aspect | come to think of it, the problem with the 1Gb card in the external slot before was different: it would boot but not read it, suggesting the fs issue mentioned before. I guess the 1Gb card + convertor is bad news here | 15:34 |
| pupnik | any maemo people who want to hear great speakers and coming through Frankfurt germany, should really stop by | 15:34 |
| pupnik | http://www.vmpseurope.com/RM2.htm | 15:35 |
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| pupnik | anybody want to finish the fullspeed SNES emu port? | 16:00 |
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| liri | is the flite (voice synthesis) package available in the repos or do I need to enable the extras chinook repo to get it? | 16:45 |
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| pupnik | 15:52 <@Geronimo> pupnik: love yourself | 16:54 |
| pupnik | 15:53 <@pupnik> best advice ever | 16:54 |
| pupnik | 15:53 <@pupnik> thanks | 16:54 |
| aquatix | :) | 16:56 |
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| StsN800 | jesus h christ a bad hailstorm | 17:21 |
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| macmaN6789 | howdy | 17:36 |
| macmaN6789 | anyone here that's running any of the full linux distros on their tablet | 17:38 |
| macmaN6789 | with Xorg | 17:38 |
| macmaN6789 | I'm trying to find out if the Virtual keyword would work in Display | 17:38 |
| macmaN6789 | slonopotamus with gentoo perhaps? | 17:41 |
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| slonopotamus | macmaN6789, i use florence (http://florence.sf.net). it has minor quirks but pretty usable in general | 17:42 |
| macmaN6789 | was that an autoreply | 17:44 |
| macmaN6789 | slonopotamus: test | 17:44 |
| macmaN6789 | or did you read "virtual keyboard" | 17:45 |
| macmaN6789 | :) | 17:45 |
| slonopotamus | macmaN6789, i use florence (http://florence.sf.net). it has minor quirks but pretty usable in general | 17:45 |
| macmaN6789 | ah ok, autoreply | 17:45 |
| slonopotamus | :D | 17:45 |
| andrewfblack | Hello | 17:45 |
| slonopotamus | macmaN6789, hello :) | 17:45 |
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| macmaN6789 | privet marat | 17:46 |
| macmaN6789 | so.. any thoughts | 17:47 |
| slonopotamus | florence works :) | 17:47 |
| macmaN6789 | lol I'm not talking about the keyboard.. | 17:48 |
| slonopotamus | <macmaN6789> I'm trying to find out if the Virtual keyword would work in Display | 17:48 |
| macmaN6789 | yeah | 17:48 |
| macmaN6789 | Virtual xdim ydim | 17:49 |
| macmaN6789 | This optional entry specifies the virtual screen resolution to be used. xdim must be a multiple of either 8 or 16 for most | 17:49 |
| macmaN6789 | drivers, and a multiple of 32 when running in monochrome mode. The given value will be rounded down if this is not the case. | 17:49 |
| macmaN6789 | Video modes which are too large for the specified virtual size will be rejected. If this entry is not present, the virtual | 17:49 |
| macmaN6789 | screen resolution will be set to accommodate all the valid video modes given in the Modes entry. Some drivers/hardware combi- | 17:49 |
| macmaN6789 | nations do not support virtual screens. Refer to the appropriate driver-specific documentation for details. | 17:49 |
| macmaN6789 | can I get a panning display in the tablet | 17:49 |
| slonopotamus | dunno, haven't tried | 17:49 |
| slonopotamus | brb, need to change machine | 17:49 |
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| Bobbe | sorry for the off-topic here | 17:56 |
| Bobbe | But I just can't pronounce "Maemo" lol | 17:56 |
| lopz | hola | 17:56 |
| Bobbe | hola | 17:57 |
| Bobbe | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=288357 | 17:57 |
| Bobbe | the guy who actually came up with the name said this: (sorry for flooding) | 17:58 |
| Bobbe | mah as the beginning of my | 17:58 |
| Bobbe | eh as the "e" in "pet" | 17:58 |
| Bobbe | mo as in Monica, but only pronouncing the M and the O. | 17:58 |
| Bobbe | If anybody can pronounce this and record into a sound file I would be immensely grateful. I know it's fairly inconsequential, but it's been bugging me endlessly since I read the post =) | 17:59 |
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| ElPollo | Hey all. Simple question (I hope). How can I use a seperate partition as /home in Diablo? Simply adding it to the fstab (like I would to on any linux distro) does not seem to work. | 18:01 |
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| robtaylor | Bobbe: i don't think there's a prescribed way to pronounce it - it came from running pwgen :) | 18:04 |
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| Myrtti | robtaylor: the way Bobbe described it though is a way a Finn would pronounce it ;-) | 18:05 |
| slonopotamus | i'm back | 18:05 |
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| robtaylor | Myrtti: it is indeed :) | 18:05 |
| Bobbe | robtaylor, I'm aware. There was a thread about this in the forum, and the guy who actually came up with the name (and used it thoroughly for something else before it became Maemo, for whose name he did have a pronunciation) posted and said that's how he meant it to be pronounced | 18:05 |
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| Bobbe | Myrtti, true. I put the WinXP speech synthesizer to say it and it came up with "MY-mou" | 18:05 |
| robtaylor | Bobbe: Jesus Climent? | 18:06 |
| Bobbe | yeap | 18:06 |
| Robot101 | he was a wannabe finn the whole time he was in .fi :) | 18:06 |
| Robot101 | getting up at 6:30am, lunch at 11am, sauna every day :) | 18:06 |
| Bobbe | lol | 18:06 |
| Myrtti | OY! What's wrong in being a Finn ;-) | 18:07 |
| Bobbe | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=287259#post287259 | 18:07 |
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| Robot101 | Myrtti: poor taste in beer? :) | 18:07 |
| Bobbe | The land where people can buy coke from a vending machine using their cell phones | 18:07 |
| Bobbe | (and it's not japan lol) | 18:07 |
| Bobbe | Er... I mean the dring | 18:08 |
| Bobbe | *drink | 18:08 |
| Myrtti | Robot101: Finnish beer is bad anyway, it's the cheapest way of getting drunk, but nobody in their right mind drinks it for enjoyment anyway | 18:08 |
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| * Myrtti prefers ciders though | 18:08 | |
| Myrtti | (or English ale) | 18:08 |
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| RST38h | Just one Maemo job vacancy left! | 18:17 |
| GAN800 | I'm not convinced by WikiTalk | 18:17 |
| RST38h | (btw, what does a shopping cart doing at that job vacancies page? =)) | 18:18 |
| GAN800 | Perhaps, mostly, because I'm convinced it's going to create a lot of work for me. :P | 18:18 |
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| GAN800 | Bobbe, look up Quim's LinuxTag keynote on archive.org | 18:19 |
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| RST38h | is WikiTalk some automated way to turn forum threads into Wikis or what? | 18:20 |
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| GAN800 | RST38h, yes. | 18:29 |
| GAN800 | I have doubts about it, though. | 18:30 |
| andrewfblack | GAN800: You always need more work | 18:30 |
| GAN800 | Spam seems likely. | 18:30 |
| GAN800 | andrewfblack, not now that I'm actually working. :P | 18:30 |
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| cosmo | finnish beers are not that bad.. try some american ones | 18:35 |
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| GAN800 | phonet in oFono. Gotta be RX-71 | 18:46 |
| Corsac | ? | 18:49 |
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| Corsac | phonet? | 18:49 |
| GAN800 | GSM driver | 18:49 |
| Corsac | ok | 18:49 |
| GAN800 | Mentioned in the Fremantle kernel in a number of places. | 18:50 |
| Corsac | so rx71 may have a gsm stack in the end? | 18:50 |
| Corsac | (i thought it would have only 3G) | 18:50 |
| GAN800 | Don't confuse RX-51 and RX-71 | 18:52 |
| Corsac | oh. | 18:52 |
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| Corsac | what's rx-71 then? | 18:52 |
| GAN800 | Something after RX-51 | 18:53 |
| GAN800 | Disabling the stylus keyboards seems to have cleared up some of the enter problems. | 18:57 |
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| GAN800 | erm, why does everybody seem to think oFono is a platform? | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | it is technically a platform | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | or a framework | 18:58 |
| * GAN800 hits JamieBennett with a cluebat | 18:58 | |
| Pavlov | the wording of all the ofono announcements was weird | 18:59 |
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| GAN800 | Stskeeps, it sure aint no replacement-for-Maemo-platform platform. :P | 19:00 |
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| GAN800 | damn Planet whitepage login | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: sufficiently bloated it might | 19:03 |
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| GAN800 | Lotta bloat. :P | 19:03 |
| GAN800 | Anyway, that's clearly not the direction they're intending to go. | 19:03 |
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| Bobbe | Hey General | 19:14 |
| GAN800 | Seriously, MicroB's virtual input merits somebody a severe beating. | 19:14 |
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| Bobbe | GAN800, but the fact that the word was meaningless before pwgen spilled it and somebody gave meaning to it. | 19:15 |
| Bobbe | it's sort of like watching a neologism emerge | 19:15 |
| Bobbe | now discussing a standard for how to pronounce a words sounds a lot like we're esperanto-ing the whole thing | 19:16 |
| GAN800 | Can't login to maemo.org to beat baloo with a thumb bat for that horrible researched post | 19:16 |
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| Bobbe | I'm fairly sure that over time the English-biased pronunciation "MAY-mou" will take over | 19:16 |
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| Bobbe | but it's interesting to see how it was meant to be pronounced | 19:17 |
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| Bobbe | about the quote, is it the one that is mentioned in the forum thread? | 19:17 |
| GAN800 | Bobbe, there is no official pronounciation, but people always ask for something so I put the IPA on wikipedia | 19:17 |
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| GAN800 | quote? | 19:18 |
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| yerga | I could record how to pronounce it, if I find something to record it. | 19:21 |
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| GAN800 | yerga, Quim's got one from LinuxTag on archive.org | 19:21 |
| GAN800 | I tried to pull a sample from that last year but failed miserably. | 19:22 |
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| Bobbe | GAN800, I meant 'keynote' | 19:22 |
| GAN800 | Although I about died laughing playing it in a loop. ;) | 19:22 |
| yerga | hehe ;) | 19:22 |
| GAN800 | oh, dunno. | 19:22 |
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| Bobbe | I'm kinda fascinated by how this will play out | 19:24 |
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| Bobbe | English teachers are weird ppl | 19:25 |
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| andrewfblack | I don't think I've ever spoken the word maemo I normally just say the tablet runs linux in stead of the tablet runs maemo | 19:28 |
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| Bobbe | andrewfblack, exactly because there is no widely-accepted pronunciation. If there was, you'd probably confident enough to say something like "It runs Maemo. It's a Linux distro for NITs" | 19:30 |
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| luke-jr | I pronounce Maemo "My Moe" | 19:35 |
| luke-jr | what is the "correct" way? | 19:35 |
| Bobbe | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=2994&page=5 | 19:37 |
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| Bobbe | luke-jr, ur a native english speaker right? | 19:38 |
| luke-jr | yes | 19:38 |
| Bobbe | Thought so. | 19:39 |
| luke-jr | but I also speak a little Nihongo, so that could bias me | 19:39 |
| Bobbe | the speech synthesizer in winxp says it exactly like you | 19:39 |
| luke-jr | lol | 19:39 |
| Bobbe | lol if you were japanese-biased you would say it in three syllables | 19:40 |
| Bobbe | mah-e-MO | 19:40 |
| Bobbe | "e" as the phonetic symbol I mean | 19:40 |
| Bobbe | Like the sound of 'a' in 'day' | 19:40 |
| luke-jr | I said a little :p | 19:41 |
| Bobbe | lol | 19:41 |
| Bobbe | (I need IPA for mirc or sth) | 19:41 |
| luke-jr | or stop using Windows crap | 19:41 |
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| Bobbe | tell linux to make my 3g modem work =) | 19:42 |
| Bobbe | I'd LOVE to ditch bill | 19:42 |
| Bobbe | anyway guys, gotta get to work | 19:42 |
| Bobbe | cya later | 19:42 |
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| luke-jr | Bobbe: tell your 3g modem to stop being idiots | 19:42 |
| luke-jr | and blame the right people | 19:43 |
| luke-jr | first, them | 19:43 |
| luke-jr | next, you | 19:43 |
| Bobbe | already did, several times | 19:43 |
| luke-jr | (since you bought it) | 19:43 |
| Bobbe | I don't blame linux at all | 19:43 |
| Bobbe | they have made AMAZING work in ubuntu with 3g modems | 19:43 |
| Bobbe | works right out of the box | 19:43 |
| Bobbe | for the lucky ones | 19:43 |
| Bobbe | it detects mine, installs it, connects... | 19:43 |
| Bobbe | and disconnects somberly after 30-40 seconds | 19:43 |
| Bobbe | will do so three or more times, then won't connect anymore. it even halts lsusb when I try to run it with it in this way. If I remove it and put it back, it detects it agains... for 30 seconds | 19:44 |
| luke-jr | NDISwrapper? | 19:44 |
| Bobbe | anyway, zte should go to hell | 19:44 |
| Bobbe | hm, never tried it | 19:45 |
| Bobbe | but linux does detect it as a usb modem | 19:45 |
| Bobbe | I can wvdial it and everything | 19:45 |
| Bobbe | it appear in lsusb | 19:46 |
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| Bobbe | but then again, for 30 secs only | 19:46 |
| Bobbe | but I'll try it later | 19:46 |
| Bobbe | gotta run now. thanks luke-jr =) | 19:46 |
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| Guest6112_522 | . | 20:38 |
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| napsy | Hello. I've downloaded a file in the Document folder. Now I can't access the Documents folder in that app. i can't see any of them. How do I access the nokia filesystem? | 20:49 |
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| GAN800 | What app? | 20:50 |
| napsy | Transmission ;) | 20:50 |
| GAN800 | Documents is ~/MyDocs/.documents | 20:50 |
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| napsy | Oh they're hidden | 20:51 |
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| GAN800 | i18n stuff | 20:51 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, they're magically localized | 20:52 |
| timeless_mbp | would you prefer they be Documents.{xx-xxx-x-xxx-x-x-x-x-x-x-x} ? :) | 20:52 |
| timeless_mbp | that's one of the windows approaches | 20:52 |
| napsy | Hm so how do I access hidden files | 20:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | create a symlink that isn't hidden ;-) | 20:52 |
| GAN800 | Stupid 5800 . . . crashes on GMail messages no matter what now. | 20:52 |
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| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: I would rather them be named normally and let the UI remap them like it does anyway | 20:54 |
| timeless_mbp | it would confuse users of stupid apps for other languages | 20:55 |
| * andrewfblack runs and hides from his minimalist 2.0 thread | 20:55 | |
| luke-jr | no more than it already does | 20:56 |
| timeless_mbp | nah | 20:56 |
| timeless_mbp | this way no one sees it unless the app is "special" | 20:56 |
| timeless_mbp | instead of confusing all the non English speakers | 20:56 |
| timeless_mbp | it is arguably better for the ecosystem | 20:56 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not saying it's right | 20:56 |
| timeless_mbp | or actually defending it | 20:56 |
| timeless_mbp | (i mostly think it's stupid) | 20:57 |
| luke-jr | riiight, better to not see my files at all, than to see them non-localized | 20:57 |
| timeless_mbp | it's true | 20:57 |
| luke-jr | no it's not | 20:57 |
| timeless_mbp | this way 100% of the population complains to the app vendor | 20:57 |
| timeless_mbp | instead of all the people who can't complain in English | 20:57 |
| napsy | timeless_mbp: ls says operation is not permitted when I try to link .documents | 20:57 |
| timeless_mbp | ln? | 20:57 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: ok, so it's a good idea for BETA products | 20:57 |
| napsy | Yes | 20:57 |
| luke-jr | but FINAL products should not HAVE complaints :p | 20:57 |
| timeless_mbp | napsy: exactly what did you write? | 20:57 |
| napsy | ln .documents docs | 20:58 |
| timeless_mbp | you want ln -s | 20:58 |
| timeless_mbp | ln would make a hardlink | 20:58 |
| timeless_mbp | which requires you to be root | 20:58 |
| timeless_mbp | -s makes a symlink | 20:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | which is what i wrote earlier... | 20:58 |
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| napsy | Ok tnx it worked | 20:58 |
| andrewfblack | RST38h: what do you think of the the minimalist theme? | 20:58 |
| * andrewfblack wonders why so many people view Talk on there phones when they have a tablet in there pocket | 20:59 | |
| timeless_mbp | s/there/their/ | 21:00 |
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| andrewfblack | you guys knew what i mean :) | 21:00 |
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| RST38h | andrew: Well, aside from that 100kB thing, my comments are somewhere at page #2 | 21:11 |
| lcuk | andrewfblack, surely the answer to that is because theres no wifi everywhere | 21:11 |
| RST38h | andrew: I think the main screen needs some separators between items. Nothing fancy, just thin lines | 21:11 |
| andrewfblack | RST38h: what name do you post in t.m.o on? | 21:12 |
| RST38h | andrew: I think the top menu is way larger than necessary, making it in normally sized, bold font on a differently colored background will do the job | 21:12 |
| RST38h | andrew: fms | 21:12 |
| RST38h | andrew: The result will look like a thin light-colored menubar | 21:13 |
| andrewfblack | RST38h: ahh I like you better in chat room :) | 21:13 |
| andrewfblack | most people want finger clickable menu bar though | 21:13 |
| RST38h | andrew: In forum, I basically try to systemize comments, that is why it is somewhat impersonal | 21:13 |
| RST38h | andrew: weirdly, it will still be finger clickable, as the menu items are elongated | 21:14 |
| RST38h | May need to use a nail... | 21:14 |
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| andrewfblack | RST38h: on the main screen seporators you want lines between each category or each sub forum as well? | 21:15 |
| RST38h | andrew: I would use thin 1-pixel borders around categories and thin lines between subforums | 21:15 |
| RST38h | andrew: may show category name on a slightly lighter background | 21:16 |
| andrewfblack | I will give it a try I was asked by some people to removed the colored backgrounds behind them at first but I think lines will work ok | 21:16 |
| RST38h | andrew: see comment #5 in the thread | 21:16 |
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| RST38h | as long as there are some separators (whatever they are), the whole page should look much better IMHO | 21:16 |
| andrewfblack | yeah I remember your post now just didn't know it was you | 21:17 |
| RST38h | andrew: UserCP just needs to be a normal vertical menu, really | 21:17 |
| qgil | hi andrewfblack, thanks for the good work! | 21:17 |
| RST38h | Has got lots of long options, no reason trying to make it horizontal | 21:17 |
| qgil | GAN8001: ping? | 21:17 |
| andrewfblack | I agree on that point I was just trying to keep people from complaining about wasted space | 21:18 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: thanks | 21:18 |
| andrewfblack | RST38h: or scrolling | 21:18 |
| napsy | Hm it seems my internal mmc2 memory is read only. Can I remount it? | 21:18 |
| RST38h | andrew: it is usercp, people visit it rarely | 21:19 |
| qgil | any user of Advanced Backlight? | 21:19 |
| RST38h | napsy: I suggest you read about The Bug first | 21:19 |
| RST38h | qgil: yes, what? | 21:19 |
| napsy | It's a bug? | 21:19 |
| andrewfblack | RST38h: I figure more people will use it now on minimalist then any other theme since its more of a link hub now then a user cp | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | <- user too | 21:20 |
| qgil | is AB playing with the light sensor as well or just with the % defined by the user? | 21:20 |
| RST38h | napsy: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=18043 | 21:20 |
| RST38h | qgil: I *think* it is fixed | 21:20 |
| qgil | RST38h: the thing is, we initially took the action of having a full slider to define the brightness, just like the volume | 21:21 |
| RST38h | andrew: just put subscribed threads link on top :) | 21:21 |
| andrewfblack | RST38h: the size part there really isn't anymore code I can strip away without removing features. | 21:21 |
| RST38h | andrew: can I have that js file? =) | 21:21 |
| qgil | however, the tests show that is quite complex to play with 0-100% + light sensor in a meaningful way | 21:21 |
| andrewfblack | there is js in all the theme template files | 21:21 |
| RST38h | qgil: maybe a checkbox "Auto" is the answer? | 21:22 |
| qgil | RST38h: so this is why I was wondering how AB does it, with or without light sensor, because then the calibration is more complex | 21:22 |
| qgil | RST38h: "Auto" what? :) | 21:22 |
| lcuk | rm_you, wakey wakey, qgil wants you | 21:22 |
| rm_you | aye aye cap'n | 21:22 |
| qgil | hi there | 21:22 |
| rm_you | hey qgil, lcuk | 21:22 |
| lcuk | \o | 21:23 |
| qgil | rm_you: please read above my comments about AB + light sensor | 21:23 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: think nokia can send me a new s60 phone to design a t.m.o mobile theme on :) | 21:23 |
| lcuk | heh afb | 21:23 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: Nokia is sending you something better than a S60 phone: a real betatester ;) | 21:23 |
| rm_you | ah yes | 21:23 |
| andrewfblack | lcuk: can't blame a man for trying thats how i got my 770 for test stuff on | 21:23 |
| rm_you | qgil: light sensor support was one of my next tasks. | 21:24 |
| qgil | rm_you: then the theory is confirmed | 21:24 |
| rm_you | qgil: there was quite a bit of discussion as to how we would interface in a meaningful way, yes | 21:24 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: I would rather have the phone :) | 21:24 |
| lcuk | no blame at all :) you are doing the community members a valuable service :) | 21:24 |
| qgil | rm_you: the guys in the "light laboratory" (however they called it) | 21:24 |
| qgil | said that it's not easy | 21:24 |
| rm_you | qgil: what we decided was something like a "light level scheduler" i believe, or an enabled/disabled checkbox for the light sensor | 21:24 |
| qgil | and they have fallen back to the 5 positions | 21:24 |
| lcuk | qgil, i have covered my light sensor up with a little sticker :) | 21:25 |
| lcuk | it stops the random dim changes from happening ;) | 21:25 |
| qgil | now having a better calibration in steps | 21:25 |
| qgil | so the lowest is really low etc | 21:25 |
| lcuk | ive got some spare "im a star" and "well done" ones ;) | 21:25 |
| andrewfblack | hmm now that I have everyone hooked on new minimalist I should charge for updates lol you want you bug fixed $5 each lol | 21:25 |
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| rm_you | qgil: yes, the five steps would be more meaningful if they were configurable | 21:25 |
| RST38h | qgil: Auto makes it control backlight with light sensor | 21:25 |
| lcuk | ahhh but andrewfblack that would assume you left bugs, and a professional such as your self will make it right first time :P | 21:25 |
| RST38h | qgil: When auto unchecked, it would be fixed brightness | 21:26 |
| RST38h | andrew: here is something that bugs me | 21:26 |
| qgil | guys, the thing is: if you find good 5 steps then the bug majority of users won't care | 21:26 |
| rm_you | qgil: yes, having the ability to enable/disable light sensor control was something we thought was very important | 21:26 |
| RST38h | andrew: In the original ITT, there was a "mobile" theme, very simple one, that only took 30kB per page or even less | 21:26 |
| qgil | the bIg ;) | 21:26 |
| andrewfblack | lcuk: I think there was one real bug so far a missing | other then that its basically preference on the look. | 21:27 |
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| RST38h | andrew: how come the new one needs 100kB of JS? Has something important changed? | 21:27 |
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| qgil | I think what bug people was that the lowest leverl was still too bright, and AB had an answer for that | 21:27 |
| lcuk | if the light sensor was +- 10% of the middle of a step it wouldnt matter | 21:27 |
| rm_you | qgil: yes, that was the initial primary reason for the creation of AB | 21:27 |
| lcuk | yeah it did, it just knocked it to minimum minimum | 21:27 |
| andrewfblack | RST38h: this isn't the mobile theme I'm making, I could make a mobile theme that used that much but you would lose thanks, quick reply and some other stuff | 21:27 |
| RST38h | andrew: I do not really mind losing any of that | 21:28 |
| rm_you | qgil: now it is a bit more than just that, but people do still find complete and easy control with a full slider useful, I believe | 21:28 |
| andrewfblack | RST38h: I have offered to do a mobile theme but I've been waiting and being selfish about it, I guess I should go ahead and do it | 21:28 |
| RST38h | andrew: By all means, ask Quim - he needs to put his E71 into action :) | 21:28 |
| lcuk | rm_you, the only one ive heard people really complain about is the lowest minimum, the other steps are just fluff :P | 21:28 |
| rm_you | qgil: i know I would still prefer it to a five step system, though admittedly most users would probably be ok this time around if the steps were configurable | 21:28 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: (((the mobile version HAD thanks and I used it a lot - nothing else though, you could strip away anything but the content))) | 21:29 |
| * RST38h is actually in somewhat better state than Quim, as his phone has higher resolution | 21:29 | |
| RST38h | qgil: 100% agree | 21:29 |
| lcuk | ahhh,, the age old problem of defining a user interface that makes everyone happy :) | 21:29 |
| qgil | rm_you: can those 5 steps be configured now even if there is no UI for it? | 21:29 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: I guess I'll give up on bumming a free phone and start work on it this week | 21:30 |
| rm_you | qgil: no | 21:30 |
| andrewfblack | I was kinda holding mobile theme hostage for a phone lol | 21:30 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: you can alway try with AB + rotation... 480px wide is a good hint :) | 21:31 |
| rm_you | qgil: the main advantage of something like AB in the future of maemo (if the light team fixes the UI for the new backlight controller) is statusbar space efficiency (combining multiple functions) and rotation support | 21:31 |
| qgil | rm_you: the status area is totally reshaped, rotation support is part of the system now | 21:32 |
| rm_you | even if rotation support is made official in fremantle (any word on that?) it is still very much a convenient and space efficient way to control all of that, without using three different buttons for no reason | 21:32 |
| lcuk | it makes sense that the 5 step ui had light levels: 10 30 50 70 90 which gave the sensor room to adjust but no way to ever get it lower than low. abl just lets you choose anything 0..100 | 21:32 |
| rm_you | qgil: ok | 21:32 |
| rm_you | qgil: are there screenshots or anything of the new UI area? i have been a bit out of the loop for a bit | 21:32 |
| qgil | rm_you: not about the status area, but coming in the next beta release | 21:33 |
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| rm_you | qgil: ok, would be interesting to see how that works. any details about the reshaping that you can divulge? | 21:33 |
| qgil | (if nothing weird happens, that is - aka don't quote me when I'm at home digesting my dinner) ;) | 21:33 |
| rm_you | lol ok | 21:34 |
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| andrewfblack | qgil: only thing I kinda worry about doing mobile theme without a mobile is font sizes and navigation | 21:34 |
| rm_you | Is the new app going to be Open or will it be part of a set of proprietary apps like the last set? | 21:35 |
| qgil | rm_you: it's better that you wait and see, otherwise is like explaining a painting over the phone | 21:35 |
| andrewfblack | I guess if phones are touch screen it wont matter | 21:35 |
| RST38h | andrew: no touch screen in most nokia phones | 21:35 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: actually you could just keep doing the minimalistic minimal, you are not far frok it imo | 21:35 |
| RST38h | andrew: use default font size, do not force your own, the phone will figure it out | 21:35 |
| qgil | now that there is the classic bright/dark available, why not | 21:36 |
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| rm_you | qgil: heh, alright... I suppose I will have to see how that develops... If the backlight is fully configurable in the new version, the statusbar doesn't suffer from clutter issues, and rotation support is officially built in, then I suppose my effort would be better spent fitting AB into the Mer side of things | 21:36 |
| qgil | rm_you: I don't think the brightness will be user configurable, not via UI at least | 21:37 |
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| andrewfblack | well minimalist theme is designed for tablets over data connection its suppose to be every feature of regular site minus the images and a little better layout. Had alot of comlaints about the old minimalist missing to many options | 21:37 |
| qgil | we really strive to make life simple to end users, and most of them don't care about brightness as long as it responds to their expectations | 21:37 |
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| rm_you | qgil: hrm... well, you are right still, normal users probably won't be as upset if the default values of the five steps are SANE, unlike last revision | 21:37 |
| qgil | and 5 steps should make happy most of us | 21:37 |
| qgil | for the rest is ok if there is AB :) | 21:38 |
| andrewfblack | you guys want mobile version dark or light colors? | 21:38 |
| rm_you | though I would still push for the ability to set the steps somehow, even if it HAS to be in a console | 21:38 |
| RST38h | qgil: I wonder if it is possible to do automatic brightness control that responds to everyone's expectations... | 21:38 |
| qgil | rm_you: apart from the lowest brightness being too bright... what else was wrong in your opinion? | 21:38 |
| rm_you | qgil: the light sensor "brightnes scheduler" system may have shown some promise | 21:38 |
| rm_you | ah, not much | 21:39 |
| RST38h | andrew: the old one was light | 21:39 |
| qgil | RST38h: I think this is what the N810 does, except the lowest level | 21:39 |
| rm_you | besides the space issues I mentioned | 21:39 |
| andrewfblack | RST38h: is that what you guys want now? | 21:39 |
| * lcuk likes current abl | 21:39 | |
| RST38h | andrew: dark is also fine but do use more color, almost Teletext style | 21:39 |
| rm_you | lcuk: I haven't really seen anyone who doesn't :P lol | 21:39 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: I actually was quite happy with the boring grey un-branded Mobile there was before | 21:39 |
| RST38h | andrew: mostly because the stuff is all very small and using bright colors makes it stand out | 21:39 |
| lcuk | heh rm_you you are right there :) | 21:40 |
| RST38h | qgil: not the more colorful version though? | 21:40 |
| lcuk | does its job without gettin in the way | 21:40 |
| qgil | RST38h: I found it confusing | 21:40 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: well do you want me to work on a new mobile or do you want to try and get reggie to bring old one back? | 21:40 |
| RST38h | qgil: weird, I found the grey one bland but the bright one was quite ok | 21:40 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: I don't want anybody to work on themes actually ;) | 21:41 |
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| andrewfblack | why not? | 21:41 |
| lcuk | send him a phone and he will stop | 21:41 |
| lcuk | :D | 21:41 |
| andrewfblack | lcuk: lol | 21:41 |
| RST38h | andrew: bringing old ones back makes sense, if Reggie can do it with relative ease of course | 21:41 |
| andrewfblack | I know qgil has an old nokia phone somewhere just lying around | 21:41 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: so much energy.... Most users of most websites eat what they get and don't complain - even in mobile devices | 21:41 |
| rm_you | I need a new phone really badly :P was thinking about poking someone from Nokia to bring one to Copenhagen for me, lol :P | 21:42 |
| lcuk | people do what they are good at and what makes them feel fulfilled :) | 21:42 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: I do, of course - but I'm not supposed to give them away | 21:42 |
| RST38h | qgil: sorry but I really really can't eat the maemo branded itt theme :( | 21:42 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: thats true but I have given up on my maemo theme designing and I'm not good for any other developing but web so this is about my only use anymore | 21:42 |
| RST38h | qgil: Classic one if fine though so I am not complaining :) | 21:42 |
| RST38h | s/if/is | 21:42 |
| qgil | RST38h: sure, but now there are... how many? 5 themes? I think it's enough to make happy everybody | 21:43 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: you know I wont tell lol | 21:43 |
| RST38h | qgil: if old mobile ones are brought up I will be completely happy :) | 21:43 |
| RST38h | qgil: currently using monimalistic on the mobile but it is a bit heavy | 21:43 |
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| qgil | RST38h: this is why I think he could keeping stripping it down instead of going for another theme | 21:44 |
| lcuk | rm_you, the toilets in copenhagn have anti-adam flooring | 21:44 |
| rm_you | lol | 21:44 |
| rm_you | I'm not going to try to go 1-1 with a German this time :P | 21:44 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: I just ramped it because that is what other people were asking for | 21:44 |
| rm_you | so I should be fine :P | 21:45 |
| lcuk | thats a point, can we sit down in mcdonalnds cph? | 21:45 |
| lcuk | mcdonalds even | 21:45 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: yes, I know people ask a lot of things ;) | 21:45 |
| * lcuk still cant type | 21:45 | |
| rm_you | that would be useful, i suppose | 21:45 |
| rm_you | Were there no chairs in Mcdonalds berlin? | 21:45 |
| lcuk | save u sliding down the wall | 21:45 |
| lcuk | no | 21:45 |
| rm_you | I honestly don't remember that clearly :P | 21:45 |
| RST38h | oh | 21:45 |
| lcuk | u sorta slouched up against the wall lol | 21:46 |
| lcuk | you were hammered | 21:46 |
| rm_you | heh | 21:46 |
| rm_you | yeah... trying to keep up with a german was NOT a good idea ^_^ | 21:46 |
| rm_you | jott can pack 'em away | 21:46 |
| * rm_you misses jott | 21:46 | |
| lcuk | heh | 21:46 |
| lcuk | :( yeah | 21:47 |
| qgil | rm_you: lemme finish that "bright" discussion: we will do our best to define the right 5 steps | 21:47 |
| rm_you | qgil: alright | 21:47 |
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| lcuk | qgil, would there be a way to put somewhere a "minimum possible please" tickbox | 21:47 |
| rm_you | qgil: I heard some stuff from GA, not sure 100% what he was talking about, but... essentially, are you guys thinking that AB is superfluous in Fremantle? | 21:47 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: and to conclude with the minimal/mobile discussion | 21:48 |
| qgil | what about a poll? | 21:48 |
| lcuk | ahhhh | 21:48 |
| qgil | asking the Minimal users (and only those) if they would keep it like that or go for a more mobile-friendly version | 21:48 |
| qgil | so you know if you are doing useful work, and in what direction | 21:48 |
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| rm_you | johnx linked me this yesterday: http://travel.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/travel/17surfacing.html?emc=eta1 | 21:49 |
| qgil | most of the recent opinions about the Minimalistic came from people that found that theme being the only salvation from the maemo.org "orange & not-dark" theme | 21:49 |
| qgil | but I bet most of these are happy now with the dark & Classic variations | 21:49 |
| andrewfblack | I based alot of my redue on comments from when minimalist first came out last year as well | 21:49 |
| lcuk | rm_you, that first senstence reminds me of berlin :) | 21:49 |
| qgil | my suspicion is that most of the current true Minimalistic users really appreciate minimalism (like me)... in a mobile device | 21:49 |
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| qgil | at home with the laptop I'm happy with the default and e.g. it's very useful right column | 21:50 |
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| * lcuk loves the spy | 21:50 | |
| qgil | andrewfblack: last year minimalistic was useful to get rid of that heavy weight N810 image | 21:50 |
| qgil | and mobile was around for the mobile users | 21:51 |
| qgil | now the situation is different | 21:51 |
| qgil | "rm_you: qgil: I heard some stuff from GA, not sure 100% what he was talking about, but... essentially, are you guys thinking that AB is superfluous in Fremantle?" | 21:51 |
| qgil | "you guys" didn't say anything, it was me in a chat like this | 21:51 |
| rm_you | right | 21:52 |
| qgil | and I only told him the same than I said to you: rotation support is there for the apps willing to use it (not for the whole thing, so it might make sense for you to keep implementing) | 21:52 |
| rm_you | sorry, what I meant by "you guys" was not you and GA, but like... you and the nokia people | 21:52 |
| qgil | although it will be funny to see how the apps allowing automatic rotation will deal with a rotated desktop... | 21:52 |
| rm_you | lol | 21:52 |
| qgil | rm_you: this is what I'm saying "the Nokia people" has no opinion about AB | 21:53 |
| rm_you | does the light team know it exists? :P | 21:53 |
| qgil | saving status bar icons is something that also changes in Fremantle | 21:53 |
| rm_you | alright, understood. sometimes it is hard to tell what is from you directly and what is being passed on, as you are basically the only interface we see with internal stuff | 21:54 |
| qgil | and then the light... it was just at the end of last week that the "bright" people told me that 0-100% slider with light sensor was very difficult to calibrate | 21:54 |
| qgil | rm_you: of course many people know it exists but they (rightly) don't think is any of their business to tell you whether the app is useful, useless or something in between | 21:54 |
| rm_you | hey, if i'm wasting my time going in one direction when I should be going in another, i'd like to hear it :) | 21:55 |
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| qgil | this is why I came here to discuss to the AB developers :) | 21:55 |
| rm_you | like, I think the future of AB at this point may be more suited as part of an Open suite of applets for Mer and other alternative OS's | 21:55 |
| qgil | rm_you: that too | 21:56 |
| rm_you | than to move forward as part of the ITOS system | 21:56 |
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| rm_you | of course if the new brightness system was Open, my energies might be better spent somewhere else altogether | 21:56 |
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| qgil | I know | 21:57 |
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| rm_you | qgil: alright, well, good to hear from you! | 21:58 |
| rm_you | thanks for the info / opinions | 21:58 |
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| rm_you | i'll be re-evaluating the direction I take with AB | 21:58 |
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| qgil | thanks for your work rm_you | 21:59 |
| rm_you | :) | 21:59 |
| rm_you | alright, off to run errands for a bit | 22:00 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: well if we can figure out what the community wants or what who ever wants, I will do it, but it kinda sounds like we should just trash my minimalist theme and go with a prefab mobile theme | 22:01 |
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| qgil | andrewfblack: do you really think so? I'm very happy with it! | 22:04 |
| qgil | this is why I think you should ask opinions from the regular users of your theme | 22:04 |
| toggles_w | andrewfblack: ekiga.net to work? | 22:05 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: it seems like you would have been happier with old minimalist since it had less features | 22:05 |
| andrewfblack | toggles_w: what? | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | rm_you: if you can sit down or not depends on the mcd :P most have seating places | 22:06 |
| Myrtti | ekiga.net works if you connect directly to zee Interhwebs not being behind NAT | 22:06 |
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| toggles_w | 14:01 < andrewfblack> qgil: well if we can figure out what the community wants | 22:06 |
| Myrtti | or have portforwarding | 22:06 |
| toggles_w | i want ekiga to work ;-) | 22:06 |
| andrewfblack | I will put a poll up on t.m.o and see what people want, I'm sure we can't make everyone happy, we will just have to try and make the most happy I guess | 22:07 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: indeed, and I pointed out that already in the prvious discussion, but that was in the -we want dark theme- discussion, when you got some "opportunistic" users just because you happened to have a dark background | 22:08 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: or don't make a poll :) | 22:09 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: just listen to any suggestion about removing things that doesn't get a frontal opposition | 22:09 |
| lcuk | if this were 3 weeks ago we could make a poll asking if you should make a poll :D | 22:09 |
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| qgil | I can already use the minimalistic in this E71 | 22:10 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: I have commented the only things in that thread, that make me stil use the 75% zoom | 22:10 |
| qgil | but you're quite there | 22:10 |
| andrewfblack | I'm happy removing any thing people want removed I just get alot of back and forth from the community on what should stay and what should go | 22:10 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: what part was that? | 22:11 |
| andrewfblack | the menu? | 22:11 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: you just answerd to it :) | 22:11 |
| andrewfblack | how would you like the menu done to make it work better for phones | 22:12 |
| qgil | I see your answer now and the couple of Thanks! | 22:12 |
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| qgil | andrewfblack: just forget what I said and keep it like that :) | 22:13 |
| qgil | otherwise indeed is going to be insane for you | 22:13 |
| qgil | just one thing can make the page fluid on a mobile device, I think: | 22:13 |
| qgil | "There is something forcing a horizontal scroll. I believe is the header of posts, specifically the "Posts: 513 Thanks!: 54 Thanked 159 Times in 90 Posts". Do we really need this in the Minimalistic theme? If you are into minimalism and simplicity those details are secondary to you." | 22:14 |
| qgil | "specifically the "Posts: 513 Thanks!: 54 Thanked 159 Times in 90 Posts". Do we really need this in the Minimalistic theme?" | 22:14 |
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| qgil | andrewfblack: this string seems to be fixed so it pushes the page wider | 22:15 |
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| andrewfblack | qgil: I will take it out next update then | 22:16 |
| qgil | then the "Bugs" and "Viaspy" links are so needed that people would complain if you take them out? | 22:16 |
| qgil | andrewfblack: probably saying "Posts: 704 | Thanked: 1,381 times" like the default theme is enough | 22:17 |
| qgil | I think that's all to make it 'mobile' | 22:17 |
| andrewfblack | bugs I'm sure it wont and Viaspy I will move user cp with rest of links | 22:18 |
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| andrewfblack | qgil: it might help if reggie would give you access to sandbox so you can make sure those are the problems keeping it wide after I fix them | 22:20 |
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| qgil | andrewfblack: it's been a while since the last time I had to work with web source code and I probably don't understand a thing nowadays | 22:24 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: I mean just the front end of out testing site so you can see what the theme will look like before me upload it to t.m.o | 22:25 |
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| kpel | hi guys | 22:26 |
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| qgil | andrewfblack: at the end it doesn't matter - until now I had used the themes that were available without complaining about anything ;) | 22:35 |
| andrewfblack | qgil: well it should be that way, this is the community site and everyone should get to put there point in, this theme is the only thing keeping me part of the community right now so its more your guys then it is mine | 22:36 |
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| RST38x | yahooo! 64MB SDRAM works! | 22:38 |
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| kpel | are there any plans to support the ovi.com services in the official software packages? | 22:47 |
| kpel | you know, applets for ovi maps, contacts, etc. like the gmail checker we currently have. | 22:48 |
| RST38x | heh, a trick question :) | 22:48 |
| kpel | ? | 22:48 |
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| kpel | is it too general? | 22:49 |
| RST38x | kpel: Answering it either way will basically reveal more about the upcoming tablet than Nokia would like to reveal, as far as I know :) | 22:49 |
| kpel | in that case I withdraw the question :) | 22:49 |
| RST38x | kpel: Let me find a mildly related itt post though... | 22:50 |
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| kpel | RST38x: ok | 22:51 |
| RST38x | kpel: Not really a large enough post to give a link, but GeneralAntilles says that Nokia has got some plans for XUL | 22:52 |
| RST38x | kpel: This indirectly implies the widgets | 22:52 |
| kpel | ah, got you. Thanks ;) | 22:53 |
| * kpel waits for the new tablet | 22:53 | |
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| ShadowJK | I would want the light sensor to adjust between 10 and 127. total darkness: 10. dusk outside, tablet indoors: 25. cloudy day, tablet indoors: 35. Sunny morning, tablet indoors: 60. sunny day, outside: 127 | 22:59 |
| ShadowJK | but it's hard to get right, i find myself moving tablet if light level is automagically adjusted when im reading... | 23:00 |
| lcuk | i would rather have control, having a computer trying to work out whats right invariably leads to frustration | 23:00 |
| lcuk | i just leave it on one setting unless its wrong | 23:01 |
| ShadowJK | bonus for smoothly reducing brightness when in dark room and viewing a bright page | 23:02 |
| ShadowJK | bonus for increasing brightness when viewing a dark xterm | 23:02 |
| ShadowJK | yeah i just manually change it | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | but sometimes it would be nice to not get blinding deathstar right after waking up in drak room | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | re themes. minimalistic is great, for desktop, makes it respond much snappier than the regular theme :-) | 23:08 |
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| ShadowJK | now we should conspire to trick someone to make a "full function" mobile version with 0k js and 0k external .css | 23:10 |
| ShadowJK | that should end up working nicely on the tablet | 23:10 |
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| mmorais | hi, how can I install maemo-sdk on ubuntu jaunty? | 23:12 |
| mmorais | it is possible? | 23:12 |
| andrewfblack | RST38x: take a look at what this site says about minimalist site <a href="http://www.linkvendor.com/seo-tools/site-analysis/website-speed-test,46.html" title="LinkVendor: Website Speed Test">Website Speed Test</a> | 23:13 |
| ShadowJK | it's be interesting to make a theme restricted completely to a subset of html2, most browsers should be fast at that by now :) | 23:13 |
| andrewfblack | opps didn't mean to copy the entire thing lol | 23:13 |
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| * RST38x is writing a reply to benny1967 who just went completley paranoid over that stupid gay parade | 23:14 | |
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| andrewfblack | ShadowJK: you want to trick me into making it? | 23:14 |
| andrewfblack | ShadowJK: I'll tell you how to do it lol | 23:14 |
| andrewfblack | btw 0k external .css would be a nightmare to write. | 23:16 |
| ShadowJK | oh I was thinking about what the minimal subset you'd need | 23:16 |
| ShadowJK | like, ideally | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | <p> and <a href>... do you need more? :P | 23:17 |
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| ShadowJK | <hr> between posts! | 23:18 |
| ShadowJK | at that point, it should be trivial to strip to markup completely and scrape it into a mailspool for viewing in mutt | 23:19 |
| ShadowJK | :D | 23:19 |
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| ShadowJK | It's a pity multi-interface forum software died out :( | 23:20 |
| bubibubibubi | http://yahoumba.mybrute.com irrational flash stuiff | 23:20 |
| bubibubibubi | http://yahoumba.mybrute.com irrational flash stuiff | 23:20 |
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| RST38x | andrew: Says the same thing as the site I used | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | there used to be several with http, mail and nntp interfaces to the same contents :) | 23:21 |
| RST38x | andrew: BUT actually lists JS scripts | 23:21 |
| Myrtti | ShadowJK: posts should be in divs, not separated by <hr />'s ;-) | 23:22 |
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| ShadowJK | well ok :) | 23:22 |
| RST38x | andrew: I wonder what yahoo-dom-event is... | 23:22 |
| RST38x | vbulletin_menu is still there | 23:23 |
| RST38x | Estimated times are wrong: you get 3.66s for UMTS and 0.53s for the modem | 23:23 |
| RST38x | The real time over GPRS is more like 10-30 seconds | 23:24 |
| ShadowJK | umts != gprs | 23:27 |
| RST38x | UMTS should be faster, right? | 23:27 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 23:27 |
| RST38x | UMTS should be faster than normal modem right? | 23:27 |
| ShadowJK | I would have guessed "average reallife" latency of gprs to be 5-10 times worse than umts | 23:29 |
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| RST38x | Whatever it is, ITT loads in 10-30 seconds for me over GPRS, using minimalist scheme | 23:30 |
| RST38x | Which it about three times longer than it should, content-wise | 23:30 |
| ShadowJK | it's the number of requests | 23:30 |
| ShadowJK | you've got an average latency when idle of about 1 to 1.5 seconds | 23:30 |
| ShadowJK | can get as "good" as .3 secs if connection is loaded exactly the right amount :) | 23:31 |
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| ShadowJK | but quickly 5 second latencies during moderate load | 23:31 |
| ShadowJK | absolute worst case is much worse :) | 23:32 |
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| RST38x | ehhh | 23:36 |
| RST38x | Can't win | 23:36 |
| ShadowJK | GAN8001: about your expired cert issues... anyone suggested the obvious yet? turn off auto-fetch time from network, manually set clock to 2007 or something | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | rst38x: opera mini wins because it makes just one request :) | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | so typical "not ideal case" delay is something like 1.5 sec + .3*2 before data comes in, and then it all comes at once | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | less on subsequent pages because it doesn't close connection to opera's server | 23:39 |
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| ShadowJK | this is why I mentioned self-contained html, the number of objects matter much more than datasize, atleast for speed | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | it's ahother question whether user would want to tradeoff speed for less bytes transfered :) | 23:41 |
| ShadowJK | (if they get metered by the byte) | 23:41 |
| luke-jr | what idiot put the N810's mic in the BOTTOM? | 23:42 |
| ShadowJK | They had to give the n-gage hw designers a new home | 23:43 |
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| ShadowJK | in practice it works though? or atleast other people on skype claimed they had no problem hearing me... or the hockey game on the tv nextroom..heh | 23:44 |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: as a speakerphone to one person maybe | 23:47 |
| luke-jr | not as a stealth conversation recorder | 23:48 |
| luke-jr | or speakerphone to a group around a central point | 23:48 |
| luke-jr | I now have to compromise: recording, or notes? | 23:49 |
| luke-jr | I will have to choose recording and hope I can make out well enough to add notes later | 23:49 |
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| ShadowJK | how's the bundled external mic? | 23:52 |
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| n6pfk | Is this the right channel for the N810? | 23:57 |
| ShadowJK | yep | 23:58 |
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