IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-04-22

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Myrtti	god I hate panucci	00:11
GeneralAntilles	Panucci's Pizza?	00:12
Myrtti	no, the audio player	00:13
b-man	lol	00:13
Myrtti	how the fuck can I add several files to the queue?	00:14
Myrtti	I downloaded ecamerone from librivox...	00:14
Myrtti	Decamerone, even	00:15
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Myrtti	and smarter ones of you may know/look up how many days (chapterss/mp3 files) it consists of...	00:16
GeneralAntilles	What's special about Panucci?	00:17
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Myrtti	I'm starting to wonder it myself...	00:19
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GeneralAntilles	Well, if it's just an audio player, why not use Media player or something?	00:19
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Myrtti	but it has resuming and you can do bookmarks on a particular spot on the file	00:20
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GeneralAntilles	Ah, that'd be what's special.	00:20
Myrtti	so in theory it's nice with podcasts and audiobooks	00:20
GeneralAntilles	I don't know any other bookmarking audio players.	00:21
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Myrtti	the nokia audiobook player for s60 is nicee but i'd much rather use my n800	00:22
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khertan_	ho my god ! i can t install mplayer on Mer!	00:28
khertan_	:)	00:28
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pupnik_	i want an alt-tab equicalent	02:17
pupnik_	valent	02:17
pupnik_	maybe xmodmap	02:17
pupnik_	ctrl-left/right	02:18
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fuzzybunny	help! i deletted my archives folder	03:40
fuzzybunny	i need roott access in gftp	03:40
fuzzybunny	bye	03:41
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fuzzybnny	hi	03:44
fuzzybnny	i need help	03:46
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jaem_N810	hey folks	03:46
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jaem_N810	so... I have an Elektex fabric keyboard, and it shows up as a storage medium in HFM, but transfers fail	03:47
fuzzybunny	how do you get root access in Gftp	03:47
jaem_N810	it seems odd that a keyboard might have storage	03:47
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jaem_N810	any ideas?	03:48
fuzzybunny	no clue	03:48
fuzzybunny	do u know how to get root access in Gftp	03:48
jaem_N810	root access for the program, or on the remote machine's fs?	03:49
fuzzybunny	th program	03:49
fuzzybunny	the	03:49
jaem_N810	run it from the console?	03:49
fuzzybunny	what console?	03:50
fuzzybunny	u mean terminal	03:50
jaem_N810	yep	03:51
fuzzybunny	I accidentally deleted my /var/apt/cache/archives/ directory	03:51
fuzzybunny	and I need to make a new one	03:52
jaem_N810	Maemo doesn't have a graphical sudo app, like gksudo or kdesudo	03:52
jaem_N810	oh	03:52
jaem_N810	wait	03:52
jaem_N810	why do you need to us Gftp, then?	03:52
jaem_N810	is the deleted folder on your NIT?	03:52
fuzzybunny	????????	03:52
fuzzybunny	I dont know	03:52
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fuzzybunny	I used terminal to rm -r it	03:53
fuzzybunny	so I don't think its still there	03:53
jaem_N810	but this is on your tablet?	03:54
jaem_N810	not another computer?	03:54
fuzzybunny	yes, my tablet	03:54
jaem_N810	okay	03:54
fuzzybunny	N800	03:54
jaem_N810	do you have the rootsh package (or similar) installed	03:54
fuzzybunny	os2008	03:55
fuzzybunny	no	03:55
jaem_N810	okay	03:55
fuzzybunny	apt is broken so I can't install anything	03:55
jaem_N810	right	03:55
fuzzybunny	so how do u get root in gftp	03:55
jaem_N810	what happens when you type sudo gainroot into the console?	03:56
fuzzybunny	here, let me try	03:56
jaem_N810	I'll brb - I have to go out of range	03:56
jaem_N810	hold on a minute or so	03:56
fuzzybunny	ok	03:56
jaem_N810	I13 1e2 kcccccctcccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyg v6vqqw[w444444	03:57
jaem_N810	44444444444444444444444444444444upo6690irr#iirpjjjjjjjjl1mb;ct	03:57
fuzzybunny	u ok?	03:58
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jaem_N810	note to self	03:59
fuzzybunny	hey	03:59
jaem_N810	turn OFF fabric keyboard BEFORE rolling it up and putting it in pocket	03:59
jaem_N810	>_<	03:59
fuzzybunny	ok, root shell is enabled	04:00
jaem_N810	okay	04:00
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jaem_N810	try this	04:00
fuzzybunny	ok	04:01
jaem_N810	mkdir -p /var/cache/apt/archives	04:01
jaem_N810	did you just delete the archives folder?	04:01
fuzzybunny	pretty much	04:02
jaem_N810	or further up the tree?	04:02
jaem_N810	okay	04:02
jaem_N810	hopefully that helps	04:02
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jaem_N810	if not, I'll be back in a little bit	04:02
fuzzybunny	thanx	04:02
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t3chb0t	.	04:43
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pupnik_	nice, fn+left/right dpad switches between xterms	05:06
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jaem	pupnik_: Oh?	05:09
jaem	that is nice	05:09
jaem	I didn't know that...	05:10
jaem	although, given the d-pad placement, that's not all that useful :S	05:10
pupnik_	i was trying to find smth to switch between all apps though	05:11
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pupnik_	i might remap fn to the right shift	05:12
jaem	pupnik_: I think there is a key for that, but I can't remember if there is, or what it might be	05:12
* jaem is liking his new BT keyboard		05:12
pupnik_	which one?	05:13
jaem	the Elektex fabric keyboard	05:13
jaem	it will take a bit of getting used to, but I can type well enough that within the first half an hour, I mostly got the hang of it	05:13
jaem	and I received in trade for something I got free in the first place, so...	05:14
jaem	I don't know if you were around, but earlier I forgot to turn it off before rolling it up, and typed a whole bunch of gibberish into #maemo from my pocket	05:14
jaem	oops	05:14
pupnik_	yeah saw that	05:16
luke-jr	I might seriously try GNOME 3 if it's Qt-based.	05:16
jaem	luke-jr: um...	05:16
pupnik_	forgot jaem was jaem_n810	05:16
jaem	luke-jr: isn't that called KDE4? :P	05:16
luke-jr	jaem: no, KDE 4 is not GNOME	05:17
jaem	pupnik_: different accounts	05:17
luke-jr	and KDE 4 is getting worse and worse	05:17
jaem	luke-jr: obviously	05:17
jaem	I was kidding	05:17
luke-jr	4.2 has a hard requirement on MySQL	05:17
jaem	but the idea of a Qt-based GNOME seems amusing	05:17
jaem	although it would be interesting	05:17
luke-jr	jaem: no excuse for GTK+ anymore	05:17
luke-jr	Qt is LGPL now	05:17
luke-jr	and open to contributions w/o copyright assignment	05:17
luke-jr	but now suffers from KDE going to crap	05:18
jaem	luke-jr: without getting into it, I think KDE 4 has made good and bad decisions, but I first tried it because it was something new and exciting, as opposed to GNOME, which never seems different between releases	05:18
luke-jr	jaem: yes, I like KDE 4 a lot in various ways	05:18
jaem	what do you define as "going to crap"?	05:18
luke-jr	but the PIM module is horrible now	05:19
luke-jr	jaem: the MySQL dep is a big one	05:19
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jaem	luke-jr: PIM could use some serious work, for sure	05:19
luke-jr	also, the calendar/todo list doesn't work at all	05:19
luke-jr	or at least didn't last time I dared try it (4.1 IIRC)	05:19
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jaem	KDE moves fast	05:19
luke-jr	meinproc4 eats a ton of memory too	05:19
luke-jr	no clue why, it's jsut an XML processor	05:19
jaem	the KDEPIM is a heck of a lot better now	05:19
luke-jr	good, but the MySQL dependency still is a killer negative	05:20
jaem	hrm	05:20
luke-jr	and it's scheduled to get worse in 4.3	05:20
jaem	oh?	05:20
jaem	how so?	05:20
luke-jr	at least IN THEORY you can disable the MySQL dep	05:20
luke-jr	with 4.2	05:20
luke-jr	but with 4.3, no way no how	05:20
jaem	what's wrong with MySQL?	05:20
luke-jr	um, it's huge, poor in standards-compliance, and eats memory?	05:21
jaem	I'm not arguing with you, but I'm interested in your position	05:21
jaem	ah	05:21
luke-jr	even an empty MySQL db requires over 100 MB of disk space	05:21
jaem	well, I can't speak to that, but my Arch/KDEmod install is pretty slim	05:21
luke-jr	oh, and the MySQL dep's purpose is jsut retarded	05:21
luke-jr	it's a CACHE	05:21
jaem	what's MySQL a dep for, again?	05:21
luke-jr	for PIM data	05:22
jaem	oh, as an Akonadi backend?	05:22
jaem	right	05:22
luke-jr	yes	05:22
* jaem remembers		05:22
luke-jr	the only one	05:22
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jaem	on an aside, is there a list of popular forum tutorials/guides from itT anywhere? I keep hearing of interesting apps and tweaks that I've somehow overlooked for months	05:24
luke-jr	eh, I'm just installing Gentoo ☺	05:24
jaem	hehe	05:24
xnt	hey guys im back :)	05:24
jaem	on your NIT? :P	05:24
luke-jr	the sky is the limit from there	05:24
jaem	hey xnt	05:24
luke-jr	N810	05:24
jaem	oh my	05:24
xnt	hey	05:24
luke-jr	s/the sky/RAM/	05:24
luke-jr	jaem: kdelibs finished a few hours ago	05:25
luke-jr	working on boost now	05:25
jaem	luke-jr: finished building, you mean?	05:25
luke-jr	yes	05:25
jaem	ah	05:25
jaem	I don't mind building apps from source, but I like my precompiled binaries	05:25
jaem	that's why I use Arch	05:26
jaem	the best of both worlds	05:26
jaem	or at least, a good compromise	05:26
luke-jr	Arch runs on N810?	05:26
jaem	no	05:26
jaem	but I wish it did	05:26
luke-jr	I'm building my stuff with -Os ☺	05:26
luke-jr	and some other memory/size optimizations	05:26
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jaem	it would be a good fit I think, considering its slimness, but that's not in line with Arch's goals, so it likely won't happen	05:27
jaem	which is kind of too bad, IMO	05:27
luke-jr	jaem: b-man ported Ubuntu	05:27
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b-man	:)	05:28
jaem	luke-jr: I know, and that's decent, but it's not really the same	05:28
luke-jr	last I heard he was working on OS X	05:28
* jaem high fives b-man		05:28
jaem	last I heard, he was working on Vista	05:28
jaem	lol	05:28
luke-jr	>_<	05:28
luke-jr	that was a joke	05:28
luke-jr	I think	05:28
luke-jr	ö	05:28
b-man	no X	05:28
jaem	luke-jr: I'm aware	05:28
b-man	D	05:28
jaem	b-man: try Plan 9 next!	05:28
b-man	lol	05:28
luke-jr	b-man: you're cross-compiling, btw?	05:29
b-man	it was a joke ;)	05:29
luke-jr	or native?	05:29
b-man	native	05:29
luke-jr	b-man: how did you link qt-webkit?	05:29
luke-jr	I had to copy my rootfs to my amd64 box and use qemu to link :x	05:30
jaem	is Midori available for Maemo, or do you have to run it from a chroot?	05:30
b-man	i didn't, i used the upstream ubuntu 9.04 as a base for ubuntu-n8x0	05:30
luke-jr	b-man: upstream had ARM already?	05:30
b-man	yes	05:31
luke-jr	armv6j?	05:31
b-man	yup :)	05:31
luke-jr	or are you using armv4 stuff?	05:31
b-man	armv6	05:31
luke-jr	ö	05:31
b-man	:)	05:31
luke-jr	wish someone would pass a law saying if we buy hardware we have a right to the specs for them >.>	05:32
jaem	yeah, but it's not going to happen	05:32
b-man	XD	05:32
luke-jr	:/	05:32
jaem	the FSF should just buy out a country and do things like that	05:32
jaem	RMS, president of GNUtopia	05:32
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jaem	too bad you can't do things like that :(	05:33
* jaem wants his own country		05:33
xnt	jaem: :P	05:33
pupnik_	i think tear has .. mem leak	05:34
luke-jr	jaem: RMS is not trustworthy	05:34
luke-jr	jaem: also, RMS supports closed hardware	05:34
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ShadowJK	pupnik_, I think it uses more ram than microb :)	06:41
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z4chh	has anyone bought an n810 from there (or, if you were to buy an n810, would you buy this?) http://www.justmywireless.com/product_info.php?products_id=389?osCsid=9757f121144babdb32b21b02284cc6b3	06:46
luke-jr	z4chh: they're always sold out ;p	06:49
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z4chh	i think all their stuff is used though :\	06:50
z4chh	i don't like how there is not a description of the quality of the used product	06:50
luke-jr	z4chh: I got mine used off ebay for about the same price	06:52
z4chh	im not to fond of "used"	06:52
z4chh	i prefer a fresh device with fresh battery and such	06:53
ShadowJK	Li-Ion batteries degrade from the date of manufacture :)	06:55
ShadowJK	even if unused	06:55
luke-jr	‼!	06:55
z4chh	ShadowJK, they probably degrade faster though as use increases	06:56
z4chh	xD	06:56
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ShadowJK	Yeah, keeping them fully charged, or fully discharged will accelerate it, as well as keeping them warm	06:56
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z4chh	ShadowJK, so should i not have my batter charged fully when i don't use my n800 for a period of time?	06:58
ShadowJK	If you want to prolong its life I'd say switch your n800 off when you have 3 bars left	07:00
ShadowJK	and remove it	07:00
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luke-jr	slonopotamus_: hi	07:03
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ShadowJK	If you're using it, charge often. You don't need to run down the battery before charging, it does more harm than good.	07:05
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slonopotamus_	luke-jr, hello	07:10
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z4chh	thanks ShadowJK	07:11
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z4chh	i think ill get this	07:27
z4chh	http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N810-Portable-Internet-Tablet/dp/B000Y4AH3C	07:27
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Khertan	Morning	08:11
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thux	morning	08:46
luke-jr	yay UGT	08:47
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:10
luke-jr	#distroflamewar is fun	10:13
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thux	luke-jr: do they know what they talk in #distroflamewar?	10:34
luke-jr	right now they're bashing me for being married I think	10:34
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thux	ah i thought that they speak linux distributions	10:35
luke-jr	once upon a time	10:35
luke-jr	I think someone mentioned FreeBSD recently	10:35
thux	always wondered why distribution wars, same kernel, same programs	10:36
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luke-jr	thux: yeah, we should try arguing KDE vs GNOME instead	10:37
johnx	GNOME is better because it has more letters	10:37
thux	probably much better cause for war	10:38
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Corsac	Xfce is best anyway	10:39
luke-jr	Xfce is GTK	10:39
luke-jr	automatic fail	10:39
Corsac	you fail	10:39
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Myrtti	xfce4 ♥	10:41
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RST38h	Real geeks need no desktop environment	10:46
RST38h	All they need is rm, ls, cp, mkdir, more, and mail	10:46
thux	do they need X?	10:46
RST38h	no.	10:46
RST38h	except as a way to run 4 xterms maybe	10:47
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johnx	i dunno. I would really miss stuff like screen	10:47
RST38h	johnx: ok, replace X with screen =)	10:48
johnx	I'm headed that way on my zaurus these days	10:48
thux	can graphical browsers run without X?	10:48
RST38h	(no, you are not getting lynx, use wget \| more =))	10:48
johnx	RST38h, fine, then s/mail/telnet/	10:48
RST38h	thux: real geeks need no graphical browsers	10:48
johnx	mail is a sad, crippled subset of telnet	10:48
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RST38h	johnx: true	10:48
RST38h	johnx: actually, no, not true	10:49
thux	ok thought they managed to run them in framebuffer somehow	10:49
RST38h	johnx: s/mail/more because "mail" actually works on a local folder	10:49
RST38h	johnx: of course you need no pop3 or imap	10:49
johnx	anyone who isn't on the local machine isn't worth talking to?	10:49
RST38h	johnx: these are evil and unsecure anyway	10:49
RST38h	johnx: sendmail will handle them for you	10:50
johnx	thux, they can in some cases	10:50
johnx	ugh. sendmail.	10:50
johnx	ok, I think you can keep your crusty old sendmail	10:50
thux	sendmail.cf	10:50
RST38h	you DO know how to configure sendmail.cf, don't you? ;)	10:50
RST38h	<Corsac> you fail	10:50
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RST38h	<Myrtti> xfce4 Î¿½?Î¿½	10:50
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Corsac	hm?	10:50
RST38h	Shit, that was an accidental right mouse button press	10:50
RST38h	(see what I mean by saying that real geeks need no desktop environment? :))	10:51
ceyusa	hehehe,	10:51
johnx	maybe you'd be better off with something that had a one-button mouse :>	10:51
* Myrtti uses xfce4 to get the terminal and the surroundings pink		10:51
Corsac	you just don't need a RMB	10:51
Corsac	johnx: aha :)	10:51
RST38h	johnx <-- evil!	10:51
thux	here in fi isps prevent :25 usage	10:51
thux	can't send mail or receive mail without relay to mail hub	10:53
RST38h	"20 tons of frozen fish stolen from a truck in the center of Moscow"	10:55
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RST38h	johnx: What would YOU do with 20 tons of stolen fish, btw? =)	10:55
johnx	RST38h, trucker's response: "not again!"	10:55
johnx	I have some sharp and nokia people to smack :>	10:56
RST38h	johnx: oh, that is not the worst no-again event that happened here	10:56
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RST38h	johnx: some Polish guy once broke an ammonia pipeline with lorry, that was hilarious	10:57
johnx	wow. bet it sucked to be him	10:58
RST38h	johnx: Especially considering that he fled afterwards	10:58
johnx	man, I'd run too	10:58
johnx	amonia is not the most awesome thing to breathe	10:58
johnx	it's not even on my top ten list	10:58
RST38h	johnx: "Fled" as in "ran away not wishing to be found"	10:58
johnx	i bet they found him anyways	10:59
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RST38h	johnx: most likely, I did not keep track of the story	11:00
RST38h	johnx: but the absolute crown is taken by the builders who hammered several piles into a running subway train	11:00
RST38h	johnx: ok, it wasn't running after the first one went in, but anyways	11:01
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testingleresting	hi	11:33
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testingleresting	Where i can found nokia 770 programs? Thanks.	11:38
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johnx	there are some listed on maemo.org/downloads (under os2006), some listed on gronmayer.com/it	11:38
johnx	but there was never a really centralized place to find programs for os2006	11:39
johnx	the situation gradually got better over time, but people kind of moved on from the 770 it seems	11:39
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testingleresting	thanks johnx i want to test a bluetooh gps with maemo mapper or another program with maps.	11:40
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plastun	hi	12:04
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plastun	a couldn't find g_ether.ko in /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/kernel-version/	12:04
plastun	where i can download it from?	12:04
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florian	good morning	12:06
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rkirti	morning :)	12:09
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* lcuk peeks in		13:08
* GeneralAntilles shuts the door on lcuk's nose.		13:10
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* GeneralAntilles detonates the trace explosives on the glass.		13:15
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GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, having fun yet?	13:16
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Yeah, all kinds of little tweaks ;)	13:16
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, I can't logout, server issue?	13:17
X-Fade	Neithan is playing with login atm.	13:17
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lcuk	x-fade, are you playing at being manager today or have you rolled up your sleeves to do this one	13:21
X-Fade	lcuk: Check maemo2midgard commits ;)	13:21
GeneralAntilles	Just a long string of profanity? ;)	13:22
* lcuk looks oooh you have been busy \/		13:22
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matmo	morning (just) all	13:43
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GeneralAntilles	Interesting. Reduced competition may be good for Nokia. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20090422PD214.html	14:11
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RST38h	General: It is a crowded segment with no customers, so no wonder	14:15
RST38h	Probably does not affect Nokia much though	14:15
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GeneralAntilles	RST38h, crowded how?	14:17
GeneralAntilles	There's barely a product on the market.	14:17
GeneralAntilles	I'd say the generic MID has plenty of customers.	14:17
GeneralAntilles	Intel's MID, however, is just too damn expensive and too laptop-like.	14:18
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RST38h	General: Well, let us see: samsung,lg,asus, and a bunch of chinese nonames all have mids	14:20
RST38h	General: local computer market here offers at least 5 different models	14:21
GeneralAntilles	Samsung has UMPCs	14:21
RST38h	General: But have you seen anyone actually BUYING them?	14:21
RST38h	General: MID, UMPC, what the hell is the difference? CPU price?	14:21
GeneralAntilles	Size	14:21
RST38h	About the same if you ask me	14:21
RST38h	There are smaller and larger ones	14:21
GeneralAntilles	Well, you'd be wrong.	14:21
RST38h	Well, even Samsung UMPC, which is pretty large, still isn't large enough	14:22
RST38h	Sony UMPC is tiny	14:22
GeneralAntilles	"tiny"	14:22
RST38h	Anyways, as a consumer, I see no difference between these, other than slight difference in size and in price	14:22
GeneralAntilles	Read up on the differences between the formfactors	14:22
GeneralAntilles	Of course your UMPCs (which are not MIDs) aren't selling.	14:22
RST38h	General: Oh, I know the official definition	14:23
RST38h	General: The thing is that neither is selling	14:23
GeneralAntilles	Nokia seems to be selling plenty of them.	14:23
RST38h	General: Netbooks sell as cheap laptops running Windoze. MIDs and UMPCs just do not sell	14:23
RST38h	General: NIT is not MID.	14:23
glass	umpc's tend to be called umpc's instead of mids because they cost a shitload	14:23
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, this is a semantics argument.	14:23
RST38h	General: Intel defines MID as an Intel based device	14:24
GeneralAntilles	While I'm not interested in having (again).	14:24
RST38h	General: it is, partially, but look at it from a different point of view:	14:24
glass	expensive shit doesn't sell very well, doh..	14:24
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RST38h	General: NIT is basically a smartphone + kbd	14:24
RST38h	General: MID is basically a laptop	14:25
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, not interested in the semantics argument.	14:25
RST38h	General: It may sound like semantics but a customer who sees N8x0 sees a phone	14:25
RST38h	But when you see a MID or UMPC, you basically see a laptop without keyboard	14:25
glass	they see it as a phone only because it reads NOKIA on it	14:26
RST38h	two totally different devices for a layman	14:26
RST38h	glass: that too, but also because it sells at the same places as phones	14:26
RST38h	glass: and behaves like a nokia phone in many aspects	14:26
glass	whereas mids and umpc's you don't see for sale anywhere	14:26
RST38h	glass: I do	14:26
RST38h	glass: They sell with laptops, same outlets	14:27
glass	i don't, in general	14:27
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GeneralAntilles	Nor do I.	14:27
glass	i havent ever seen an oqo in flesh for example	14:27
RST38h	glass: In here, I see them	14:27
GeneralAntilles	I've seen the Sony UX in a Sony Store	14:27
GeneralAntilles	But nothing else.	14:27
RST38h	glass: I am pretty sure you can see them everywhere in APAC	14:27
RST38h	glass: Not Europe or US because there is just no use case	14:28
glass	there would be if they sold for 300e or so like the cheapo netbooks	14:28
glass	they sell like crazy here	14:28
GAN800	I really want a 'New packages' feed in h-a-m. Extras has gotten full enough that scanning the full list doesn't work anymore.	14:31
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lcuk	am i meant to ummm "tweet" if i go to the toilet?	14:33
GeneralAntilles	Not only that, but you should tweet the walk to, the sit down, the debriefing, the actual activity and the after action report.	14:34
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RST38h	glass: i do not think they would really	14:34
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GeneralAntilles	If you don't, you fail at twitter.	14:34
lcuk	pictures on flickr?	14:34
lcuk	!!! i could draw a diagram!	14:34
GeneralAntilles	Duh	14:34
RST38h	glass: if my theory about netbooks selling to be used as normal notebooks is correct, MID/UMPC has no chance	14:34
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: yeah, a feed like this would be easy to provide: http://newstyle.maemo.org/downloads/updated/OS2008/25/	14:34
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, they aren't selling for that reason.	14:35
GeneralAntilles	They're selling as second or third machines.	14:35
GeneralAntilles	Which is the same reason tablets sell.	14:35
RST38h	General: key question: because of the price or because of the portability?	14:35
GeneralAntilles	Both	14:35
GeneralAntilles	Do nettops sell like hotcakes?	14:35
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GeneralAntilles	They've certainly got the price.	14:35
RST38h	not many of those out et	14:35
RST38h	yet	14:35
GeneralAntilles	There are some.	14:36
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glass	RST38h: most people i know who've bought netbooks also have proper comps, and have bought them solely for cheap price and portability	14:36
lcuk	size, laptops started to move to being bigger and bigger and heavier and people want smaller - but they find they have less power (obviously) and are caught in a "not all the time" bracket	14:36
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GeneralAntilles	lcuk, size doesn't explain it.	14:37
GeneralAntilles	There were plenty of small laptops before netbooks came around.	14:37
GeneralAntilles	(size alone, that is)	14:37
glass	size and price	14:38
GeneralAntilles	^	14:38
glass	the price being a very big factor, it's no use if it's portable if you're afraid to take it to the pub because of price	14:38
RST38h	glass: see, if people really wanted portability over price, they would buy real notebooks	14:39
RST38h	glass: apparently, they do want to price	14:39
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GeneralAntilles	You sound like you're refuting a point he made, but that's exactly the point he made 10 minutes ago.	14:39
RST38h	glass: and buy netbooks as cheap notebooks	14:39
RST38h	General: I do not understand what you mean :)	14:40
RST38h	The point is that MID is no notebook though, and people do not know what to do with it	14:40
glass	RST38h: 300e vs 1000, the guys/gals i know couldn't really have afforded more expensive either	14:40
RST38h	Or, returning to my original argument, "If it can't run MS Office, nobody will buy it" :)	14:40
glass	they'd have used the money before they would have gotten 1000 together	14:40
GeneralAntilles	That argument is clearly bull.	14:41
z4chh	i getting an n810. im so excited :D	14:41
GeneralAntilles	Fewer people will buy it.	14:41
RST38h	Please explain why it is "clearly" bull	14:41
RST38h	How much fewer? :)	14:41
locutus	RST38h: well, the price difference between netbooks and 'small laptops' i just to big	14:41
GeneralAntilles	But "nobody" and the sales numbers of devices in the category doesn't quite mesh up.	14:41
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locutus	RST38h: for the price of a 12" Thinkpad, you can buy 4 Netbooks	14:42
RST38h	General: mm...ok, example:	14:42
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, I'm not sure why I let myself be dragged back into this.	14:42
wazd	Hello Maemo	14:42
RST38h	All right	14:42
RST38h	hello wazd	14:42
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wazd	good'ol netbooks theme :P	14:42
RST38h	locutus: Wrong person, I wouldn't buy a Thinkpad even if it cost 1/2 the price of a netbook	14:42
locutus	grin	14:42
locutus	well, you get the idea (:	14:43
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, yeah, not a complicated thing but I wish the new h-a-m guys would come out from behind the wall and get involved.	14:43
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: I would too.	14:44
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plastun	help me please with USB-networking	14:47
plastun	i set up connection both side: Nokia and my PC	14:47
Macer	ugh	14:48
plastun	there are PINGS from nokia to pc and from pc to nokia	14:48
plastun	but i couldn't go to Internet from Nokia	14:48
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sans	Hi	14:50
sans	while running qmake -project i am getting "/home/maemo/trial//trial.pro Unable to generate project file." in maemo fremantle	14:52
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sans	anybody can help me	14:57
sans	while running qmake -project i am getting "/home/maemo/trial//trial.pro Unable to generate project file." in maemo 5	14:58
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danielwilms	plastun: which system are u using?? and which instructions to set up the connection?? have u followed up this: http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking ??	15:01
danielwilms	plastun: if u are using linux there are perhaps some firewall issues??	15:02
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plastun	danielwilms: a have read this wiki	15:05
plastun	i use Ubuntu 8.10	15:05
danielwilms	plastun: hmmm have u checked the hint with the firewall issues there??	15:06
plastun	i have no firewall	15:06
plastun	strange thing: i ping my machine, ok	15:07
plastun	i ping google.com - "bad address"	15:07
sans	while running qmake -project i am getting "/home/maemo/trial//trial.pro Unable to generate project file." in maemo 5	15:08
sans	any help :)	15:08
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GeneralAntilles	Does <title>maemo.org - Home of the Maemo community</title> sound agreeable to everybody? ;)	15:13
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa?	15:13
X-Fade	Ok, now I'm going to move the community and development in place.	15:13
GeneralAntilles	This is where the server explodes.	15:14
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tekojo	X-Fade: newstyle!	15:17
X-Fade	tekojo: Yeah, not done yet.. But getting there ;)	15:17
tekojo	Frontpage is good enough for me .-)	15:18
X-Fade	lol	15:18
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danielwilms	plastun thats in deed strange...sorry....haven't found something else related to this...perhaps u could try the iptables entries...wouldn't hurt :)	15:26
plastun	danielwilms: i'll digg it... thanks	15:27
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RST38h	back	16:02
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* RST38h looks at the mess that is the "new" maemo.org. Should have just kept it as it was...		16:05
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GeneralAntilles	Always helpful RST38h.	16:07
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RST38h	General: I have tried being helpful before on this subject	16:10
RST38h	None of my help has been taken into account though, so website is mostly a mashup of seemingly random items	16:10
RST38h	Actually, I can start filing bugs on particular problems with website organization but of course they will all be considered "rants"	16:11
GeneralAntilles	Because your bugs usually are rants.	16:12
RST38h	ok.	16:12
GeneralAntilles	Try to consider that your own opinion may not be the only valid one.	16:12
wazd	mine is >:D	16:12
wazd	oh	16:12
wazd	bad smile	16:12
wazd	:D	16:12
RST38h	Try to make a difference between facts and opinion.	16:12
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RST38h	For example, the main page (/) for some reason contains two huge panes named "HOT" and "FRESH" + some other random items	16:13
RST38h	One would expect to see news there, but you have to scroll down for the news	16:14
RST38h	So, where is "opinion"?	16:14
wazd	RST38h: well, if you think that maemo.org is bad, check out http://www.ubuntu.com/	16:14
wazd	Especially "Do it with Ubuntu" t-shirts :D	16:15
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RST38h	wazd: I can check msdn.microsoft.com or www.msnbc.com for a case of bad design	16:16
suihkulokki	I enter a random url to my browser and see bad design	16:16
wazd	RST38h: well, msnbc is not that bad :)	16:17
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wazd	GeneralAntilles: btw I have an idea bout "random members of maemo community"	16:18
wazd	GeneralAntilles: No one cares bout -random- members, but it would be great section for member highlighting	16:19
wazd	specified member	16:19
X-Fade	wazd: That is still in the plans somewhere.	16:20
wazd	X-Fade: great	16:20
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wazd	I see 1 visual bug here: http://maemo.org/profile/list/	16:21
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wazd	left borders of the row are all same color but rows aren't	16:21
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wazd	and again what I meant under "sensless stuff".	16:24
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RST38h	What is that huge orange diamond at the right of http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ ?	16:24
wazd	check out: http://maemo.org/profile/view/trin20t/	16:24
wazd	0.25 is 1px smaller than 3	16:24
wazd	so all this graph stuff actually shows nothing	16:25
wazd	Why spend precious time to make that stuff, I don't know	16:25
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wazd	RST38h: it's a scrollbar :)	16:25
RST38h	wazd: ohmygod...	16:26
RST38h	And I haven't even tried to look at this site from MicroB yet...	16:26
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wazd	RST38h: well, I can't see anything that microb can't handle	16:27
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RST38h	wazd: slashdot doesn't look like much either but brings microb to its knees	16:29
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wazd	I just got one paradox thing :)	16:30
wazd	First manufacturers claim "desktop like" experience on the handhelds	16:31
wazd	And then make guides how to make "handheld-optimized" site :)	16:31
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RST38h	wazd: Well, even if you have got a real browser in your tablet, you still have limited memory and cpu	16:38
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RST38h	wazd: so, yes, it will suck with what is considered a "modern website" :)	16:39
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RST38h	Ironically, Intel claims that Atom bring "desktop browsing experience" as compared with S60/iPhone/NIT/etc	16:39
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Stskeeps	curious - matchbox1 svn update	16:41
Stskeeps	maybe diablo isn't all dead	16:41
RST38h	Sts: Only if Nokia engineers figure out a way to semiofficially update it...	16:42
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, you missed -developers, I guess.	16:42
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Khertan1	RST38h: Ironically, Intel claims that Atom bring "desktop browsing experience" << they propably mean with a windows desktop and virus made for windows !	16:46
RST38h	Khertan: Absolutely :)	16:47
RST38h	General: No, I kept track of that particular thread =)	16:47
wazd	http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/22/polymer-vision-has-readius-ready-to-go-needs-cash-to-push-it-ou/ <- like that concept	16:47
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Khertan1	wazd: which concept ? the ui or hw ?	16:49
wazd	Khertan1: hardware)	16:49
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radic	is abiword already ported?	17:06
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RST38h	radic: yes but not fully functional	17:09
radic	hmpf	17:10
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luke-jr	gah! GPS is proprietary? :/	17:14
Stskeeps	reverse engineer it?	17:15
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radic	is there a way to incrase the volume ?	17:16
luke-jr	Stskeeps: that simple, eh?	17:18
radic	on OS2007 was my n800 louder...	17:18
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StsN800	luke-jr, you'd be surprised	17:21
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GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, ready for a nap yet?	17:41
X-Fade	No, still some issues. So no time to sleep.	17:42
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, sounds like it'll never be nap time. ;)	17:42
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lopz	hola	18:35
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gomiam	hola	18:38
gomiam	pero más te vale saber inglés porque la mayoría no entiende español ;)	18:38
slonopotamus	understandable, in general :)	18:41
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Jaffa	Is there a relatively good full screen timer for Maemo? There was a Python one which ate batteries	19:07
Jaffa	Hmm. With a compositing window manager, having a persistent semi-transparent one floating in a corner could be quite useful	19:07
qwerty12	Matchbox has the nice effect of breaking on Maemo when you compile it with compositing support...	19:08
GeneralAntilles	lol	19:08
StsN800	eggtimer?	19:08
qwerty12	But xcompmgr and transset-df are in -devel...	19:08
ShadowJK	compositing sounds like battery-eating too :-)	19:08
Jaffa	Not in Fremantle :)	19:09
Jaffa	As long as it stops updating when the screen is off, or its obscured etc.	19:10
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: EggTimer's a bit fugly, and counts down - I want to count up (giving a 10 minute briefing on Friday about the Oracle/Sun acquisition)	19:10
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GeneralAntilles	itT is so silly	19:11
qwerty12	The only complaint I have is that I get a nice zoom effect when logging in - instead of being transferred to the https part	19:12
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Woolly-work	howdy, anyone know how to get numpy working in maemo?	19:18
GeneralAntilles	Install it?	19:20
Woolly-work	I cant find the package	19:20
GeneralAntilles	http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/n/numptyphysics/	19:22
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StsN800	i think he means python-numpy	19:23
Woolly-work	StsN800: that's the one	19:24
StsN800	it may be part of std python on maemo	19:25
qwerty12	Nay	19:25
Woolly-work	nope, it's numeric :(	19:25
qwerty12	The only time you'll see Numpy in Maemo is in Fremantle	19:26
Woolly-work	damn	19:26
Woolly-work	i've been trying to get numpy on the tablet, so I could then install pycv for face detection	19:27
Woolly-work	any ideas of another way to do it?	19:27
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slonopotamus	hehe	19:31
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GeneralAntilles	Capitalization is important. . . .	19:32
Woolly-work	capitalisation?	19:32
locutus	the thing with Uncle Jack and all that	19:33
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GeneralAntilles	2000! Time for me to retire.	20:07
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fzero	Little survey.	20:10
fzero	Anyone here using FBReader gets random reboots?	20:10
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Guest8916_098	any idea why make: *** [install] Error 127 dpkg-buildpackage: failure: fakeroot debian/rules binary gave error exit status 2	20:13
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Guest8916_098	any idea why make: *** [install] Error 127 dpkg-buildpackage: failure: fakeroot debian/rules binary gave error exit status 2	20:21
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mgedmin	Guest8916_098: the reason for that was printed in the lines above	20:27
mgedmin	fzero: no, not any more	20:27
mgedmin	clarification: (*) when I used to get random reboots I finally blamed some home applet (omweather?)	20:28
mgedmin	(*) I don't have the latest version of fbreader	20:28
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fzero	mgedmin: Well, there's a bug posted on the FBreader site about random reboots	20:29
* mgedmin waits for the url patiently		20:29
fzero	I thought it could be a home applet too, more specifically hometools (which is awesome).	20:29
fzero	But it still happens after I removed all home applets.	20:29
mgedmin	and statusbar applets too?	20:30
fzero	Hm, no.	20:30
fzero	I'll try that next.	20:30
fzero	Anyway it'll be a pity if I can't use my current applets. It's weird because it only happens with FBreader.	20:31
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ShadowJK	how's fbreader with memory usage?	20:31
fzero	Is there any alternative to it?	20:31
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fzero	Which works with non-pdf content.	20:31
GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, fine.	20:31
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fzero	ShadowJK: Seems fine. I'm using the system load applet on the statusbar to monitor that.	20:32
fzero	It doesn't seem to be leaking	20:32
ShadowJK	I found it virtually useless for monitoring anything at all..	20:32
fzero	ShadowJK: At least you can see if the memory is getting full.	20:33
fzero	I'm using some swapspace on the internal card. I know this can also be a problem, but as I said before, it only happens with fbreader.	20:33
ShadowJK	Which, perhaps surprisingly, isn't as useful a measure as you'd think..	20:33
fzero	ShadowJK: Yep, I know.	20:34
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fzero	ShadowJK: what do you recommend? top?	20:34
ShadowJK	About the only useful thing I've found is to run vmstat 1 and/or vmstat 5 on another computer/tablet through ssh	20:35
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ShadowJK	If it's memory pressure that's killing it, the figures in the WA column will increase, output from vmstat might cease, and if it doesn't recover, the watchdog reboots the device	20:35
ShadowJK	Unfortunately I don't think vmstat is in extras :(	20:35
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fzero	Let's see...	20:36
fzero	I have my n800 here	20:36
fzero	let me hook it.	20:36
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fzero	no vmstat. :(	20:40
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qwerty12_N800	I have vmstat in diablo, but that's a result of forcing procps to install & removing busybox's conflict with it	20:48
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ShadowJK	I installed gcc and compiled vmstat...	20:50
fzero	Is it normal to have lots of /usr/sbin/browserd running?	20:50
fzero	I downloaded htop btw	20:50
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fzero	it's no vmstat but you get a nice view of the system	20:50
ShadowJK	two browserd, two browser	20:50
ShadowJK	(probably)	20:51
fzero	that's about right	20:51
Guest8916_098	dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: hildon-theme-layout-4-synth (>= 0.14.9-1synth2) dpkg-buildpackage: warning: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.	20:51
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Guest8916_098	???	20:52
Guest8916_098	i need to put folder of depandancy in my application folder or what?	20:52
fzero	whoa the GUI restarted	20:53
ShadowJK	that sounds bad :)	20:53
ShadowJK	after doing what?	20:53
fzero	AH, ok, not its fault	20:53
fzero	the wifi at the office had problems	20:54
fzero	Xchat on n800 blew up	20:54
Guest8916_098	dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: hildon-theme-layout-4-synth (>= 0.14.9-1synth2) dpkg-buildpackage: warning: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.	20:54
Guest8916_098	??	20:54
fzero	aaaand the home screen is blank	20:55
fzero	time for a reboot.	20:55
ShadowJK	Guest8916_098, I have no idea what you're trying to do, but generally if I encounter unmet dependencies, I'd try install them, for example apt-get install hildon-theme-layout-4-synth	20:56
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Guest8916_098	i installed	20:59
Guest8916_098	if my stuff before packaging is in x folder...i need to put a depandancie in this folder or beside?	21:00
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fzero	Ok, gotta work, gonna try some more diags at home.	21:04
fzero	ShadowJK: Thanks for the pointers.	21:04
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Guest8916_098	how to change shell for bash?	21:07
ShadowJK	dependencies need to be installed	21:07
Guest8916_098	i allready installe bash	21:08
Guest8916_098	but i dont know how to switch	21:08
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igagis	Hi	21:13
igagis	is anybody aware when did libasound2 update in repository to 1.0.19?	21:14
igagis	I have strange dependency problem	21:14
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igagis	autobuilder created a package of my app and indicated a dependency on libasound2 >>1.0.18 I have 1.0.14 on my tablet and it does not want to update to 1.0.19 for some reason	21:16
ShadowJK	I'd just type bash in terminal..	21:16
qwerty12_N800	yes, maybe X-Fade can remove the newer version of libasound uploaded to extras-devel.	21:16
GeneralAntilles	Just keep shoveling it on X-Fade. ;)	21:16
igagis	qwerty12_N800: does autobuilder uses extras-devel when resolving dependancies when building?	21:17
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qwerty12_N800	igagis: yep	21:17
igagis	qwerty12_N800: is it normal?	21:18
Guest8916_098	tx	21:18
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qwerty12_N800	igagis: yep, or anything using libs that aren't shipped with diablo would never be built :)	21:19
qwerty12_N800	igagis: you may be force it to use the right version with a (= <right version>) rule for libasound in your build deps for now	21:20
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qwerty12_N800	But the real solution is getting the package removed from -devel	21:20
igagis	I thought that extras-devel is only for testing... it is ok to use extras for dependencies, but should extras-devel be used?	21:20
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igagis	ok	21:20
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GeneralAntilles	Damn Tim!	21:21
qwerty12_N800	igagis: yes, as the builder builds for -devel only, not extras - be a pain to promote each time :)	21:21
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GeneralAntilles	I still have that stupid song stuck in my head.	21:22
igagis	qwerty12_N800: ok, thanks for explanation ;-)	21:22
* RST38h moos woefully		21:22
RST38h	Apparently, there is still some bug in ARMonARM :( Salt Lake City Olympics 2002 fails.	21:23
qwerty12_N800	baa RST38h	21:24
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RST38h	Time to whip out my super duper trace comparison tool	21:27
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RST38h	Ah I see what is going on	21:33
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Jaffa	re	21:44
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plastun	are there python bindings for QT3?	22:35
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lbt	plastun: Qt3 on maemo?	22:54
plastun	yes, qt3 on maemo	22:54
lbt	AFAIK you can't get Qt3 on maemo....	22:54
lbt	so no	22:54
lbt	Qt4.5 is there	22:55
lbt	and I the PyQt stuff is running with it	22:55
plastun	ok, thanks	22:55
pupnik	tear needs copy paste fix	22:56
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luke-jr	plastun: Qt3 is obsolete	23:14
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Guest8916_098	anyway to erase some files in root folder on ubuntu (but erase in files broser instead terminal command) ?	23:24
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plastun	gksu nautilus	23:26
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GeneralAntilles	The Development, Community and Support pages look really hot.	23:44
keesj	all very nice indeed	23:45
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lbt	eh?	23:48
GeneralAntilles	lbt, http://maemo.org/community/	23:50
woglinde	hm	23:50
lbt	ooh	23:50
lbt	orangey	23:51
woglinde	the startpage was better in the old one	23:51
woglinde	now have to scroll down for news	23:51
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GeneralAntilles	woglinde, yeah, the frontpage needs some tweaking.	23:51
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GeneralAntilles	1.1 ;)	23:51
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lbt	on this page: http://maemo.org/news/ all the items in the RHS bar seem to have a trailing / in the href	23:56
GeneralAntilles	As they should	23:56
lbt	http://stezz.blogspot.com/2009/04/really-convert-your-svn-to-git-with-one.html/	23:57
lbt	really?	23:57
GeneralAntilles	lbt, well, click them. :P	23:57
GeneralAntilles	Ah, different links.	23:58
lbt	Sorry, the page you were looking for in the blog somethingMeaningful does not exist.	23:58
lbt	:D	23:58
GeneralAntilles	Was looknig at the navigation links.	23:58
lbt	cool - you see it too?	23:58
lbt	some work (by luck)	23:59
lbt	anyhow, FYI	23:59

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