IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-04-16

lakinAnd it's harder to see the tears cause you can only scroll vertically, not diagonally00:00
lcukbut they were clear as day in sdl when i was doing it there00:00
lcuksame with the bookreader stuff00:01
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lakinI'm not saying your code is as bad as the SDL code that you wrote.  I'm simply saying that on my machine, scrolling diagonally on the blit test results in tearing that is as severe as the SDL apps that I have running on the machine00:01
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lakinWhich means I'm back to the beginning - trying to figure out a way to render animation on this thing without the tearing.00:02
lcukthen based on everything ive heard and seen, i would at this point say your machine is faulty \:p/00:02
lakinA faster LCD refresh rate would exhibit the same symptoms without my machine being faulty.  But it's entirely possible that it is00:03
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lcukdoes the map tear?00:04
lcukcos if it did the trainlines would be broken and ive never seen it00:05
lakinyeah, it tears00:07
lcukits a real shame you cant make a video showing it00:07
lcukcan you see the tearing in any of the vids of mine on youtube?00:08
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lcuki know its harder to tell, but whenever i see other 8x0 vids its still noticable00:09
* lakin looks00:09
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lakinDo you do any diagonal scrolling00:10
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lcuki assume i do at some point in the vids00:11
lcukbut ive got coding to do00:11
lcukgive me a shout if you find anything00:11
lakinlcuk: sure - if you have a high quality video device maybe you could upload a video of diagonal scrolling of the blittest/map test and let me see it so I can help figure out if it is indeed my machine, or if I'm seeing things?00:12
lcuki fail to see it, you prove your case to me00:13
lcukive got work to do :)00:13
lakinSo do I00:13
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lakinlcuk: there is tearing in that one00:21
lakinBut it's hard to see/point out due to the video compression - but I'm pretty sure it's there00:21
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lcuklakin - where? i quite clearly whizz the map around fullscreen panning and still fail to see it - timecodes exist for a reason00:25
lcukat 205 i scaleblitted too few items for a screen so it didnt draw everything00:26
lcukthat surely isnt what you mean?00:26
lcukie i made it too thin to need to draw all the screen00:27
lcukit doesnt actually tear tho?00:27
lakinI'm saying that on the edge of the picture that's really dark, the edge isn't lined up00:27
lcukbefore that when its big enough to be moving diagonally00:27
lakinagain, it _could_ be due in this case to video compression00:27
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lcukwell the map is panned around laglessly and you can clearly see  each trainline and they all stay together according to my eyes - do they for you?00:28
lakinwhat time code is that in?00:29
lakindefinitely see it00:29
lakinagain it could (in this case) be due to the video compression00:30
lcukwhatever, gnite00:30
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BlafaselHmm.. Interesting conversation..00:31
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lakinAnyone else see the tearing in liqbase - or is it just me?  I'm willing to admit that my n810 might be defective, but if it is I'd like to determine that definitively so I can get it fixed or get a new one00:32
thopiekarthe question that makes me going crazy the last days is how to call my sync'ing app... atm I'm aiming to get it working syncing a folder with a ftp-server.. as a gui I have choosen (py)qt4..00:33
lakinpersonally I'm not terribly interested in liqbase - more interested in documentation about how to code in a way that avoids the tearing myself.  But because it's so clearly there in liqbase, and that's the apparent "gold-standard" in terms of graphics stuff on Maemo - it's got me thinking that it's actually impossible00:34
lakinor that my device is defective00:35
lakinany other opinions?00:35
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guysoft422yay, i found what i needed; .. this is really cool.00:48
guysoft422with this, and a working maemo mapper, i can geo-locate pictuers with any camera that has a synced time data..00:49
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joyriderlakin is your "animation" fullscreen ? if not try using updaterects if you haven't already tried that or are doing that, instead of sdl_flip so that you don't update the whole screen. it doesn't get rid of tearing but according to the wiki makes it happen less00:54
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lakinjoyrider: did that, tearing is still terrible00:55
lakinEven tried the Xsp version00:55
lakinI have a half written version based on the yuv Xv that's in liqbase.  I'll probably finish that as the tearing in liqbase is much _less_ than my SDL version now that I look at it again, but tearing is still there00:56
joyriderhmm i really don't notice it on my device / game(s) except when i ran that scrolling demo thing00:56
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lakinjoyrider: run which scrolling demo thing?00:56
joyriderit's an sdl test that just scrolls ans image with text that makes the tearing really noticeable00:57
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lakinheh, ok.  Have you tried liqbase?00:59
joyriderNo i haven't, but i think i don't notice the tearing because i limited my fps to 30 and 40 in my games it seems to happen more often when having more fps00:59
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joyrideri'll try liqbase to see if i can notice it, but i really didn't notice it until i ran that sdl scrolling demo on my device01:00
joyrideri didn't even know what it was before that :)01:00
joyriderbtw do u have a sample somewhere of the animation in question ?01:01
lakinof my animation?  No, not really01:02
lakinI should prepare one01:02
joyriderwhere exactly do u notice it in liqbase ?01:03
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lakinIn the map / blit demo01:04
lakinyou have to click on 'options' to get those options01:04
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lakinIn the blit test I notice it most when scrolling diagonally01:05
lakinthere is a picture that is close to black (or at least really dark) and the edges will misalign pretty badly on my device01:05
joyriderhmm can't tell that i notice it01:06
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lakinOk, cool.01:07
lakinthanks for checking into it.  Maybe it is my device01:07
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joyriderif you'd like i can test out your binary if you have one, to see if i can notice it on my device01:08
lakinYeah, let me rebuild it01:08
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thopiekargood night..01:13
thopiekarcu l8er01:13
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lakinjoyrider: there is a terrible version, but it runs and shows the tearing01:28
joyriderok i'll try it out01:28
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joyriderhmm i can see it quite clear now yes01:32
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lakinmore clearly than in liqbase, huh?01:33
lbtnight all01:35
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lakinjoyrider: heh, at least it runs. *smirk*01:35
lakinI'll keep going with the yuv/xv based one see if that helps at all01:35
joyriderhehe yes :)01:35
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qwerty12_N800ello johnx03:03
johnxhey qwerty12_N800. How goes it?03:03
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qwerty12_N800i'm all good, thanks. How about you? :)03:04
johnxpretty good actually. Just got done updating (read: rewrting) my resume. total PITA, but it's done (!)03:05
qwerty12_N800hehe, I'll have to start preparing for college interviews in a few weeks...03:06
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johnxnow it's time to play with mer on my newly undead zaurus :D03:13
johnxwow. madness. you starting college in fall 2009 or 2010?03:13
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qwerty12_N800johnx: heh, this year :/03:26
johnxwhy the ':/03:26
qwerty12_N800dunno, just the fact that i'll be leaving school and such :)03:27
johnxalways good to move onto new things once in a while. keeps you on your toes :D03:28
qwerty12_N800Midori was pretty stable actually, turns out hildon-desktop was killing it because it was missing an osso_initalize...03:29
johnxah! can't believe I didn't think of that03:30
qwerty12_N800yeah, I only noticed when someone said it wasn't crashing when launched from the terminal03:30
johnxwell that's pretty awesome then03:31
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luke-jrugh, libX11 takes forever to build04:08
johnxluke-jr, building natively on the n800?04:08
luke-jrN810, but yes04:09
luke-jrI am installing Gentoo04:09
luke-jrbtw, check out my map
johnxdid you look at using opensuse builder?04:10
luke-jrooooo, navit is a CPU hog04:10
* luke-jr kills it04:10
johnxstrange. that map scrolls a lot slower than the normal google maps...04:11
luke-jrjohnx: it has a ton of AP points04:11
luke-jrjohnx: zoom out a bit ;)04:11
GeneralAntilleskrisse's back (temporarily)04:13
GeneralAntillesand just as confused as ever.04:13
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luke-jrwho's krisse?04:14
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GeneralAntillesThe person behind the Tablet School and Tablet Scene.04:18
GeneralAntillesWho lost her head a few months ago and left the community.04:19
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npatt0ndoes anybody know what the defualt root password is for the nokia n81004:33
zakkmthere isnt one04:33
zakkmyou would passwd and set one04:33
zakkmnpatt0n: does it ask for one?04:33
zakkmnpatt0n: you need packages to become root for default terminal?04:33
zakkmtry sudo gainroot04:34
zakkmthat should make you root04:34
npatt0nI'm trying to set proxy settings04:34
johnxI think the default password is unmatchable. Install rootsh or openssh-server to get root04:34
npatt0nwhen I do sudo gain root it still asks for a password04:34
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zakkmyeah iwas thinking its hashed or something, not something you could type/random04:35
zakkmgainroot< --- one word?04:35
zakkmits not sudo gain root04:35
npatt0ndo you know how I can get tear to work with an http proxy?04:35
zakkmi dont, still use OS2007 :)04:35
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npatt0nwell thanks anyway04:36
johnxnpatt0n, it might honor environment variables like HTTP_PROXY (sp?). I don't really know04:36
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zakkmjohnx: according to forum, it doesnt04:36
luke-jrlibX11 finished compiling04:37
zakkmnpatt0n: setting http proxy for the hotspot doesnt work?04:37
zakkmluke-jr: slow machine? :)04:37
luke-jrzakkm: N81004:37
zakkmyou compile on the nokia itself?04:37
luke-jrI do now04:37
zakkmseems best effective, but very slow method04:38
luke-jrI'm not going to even try tempting KDE 4.2 to cross compile04:38
zakkm12 hours? :)04:38
luke-jrI know KDE 3.5 was impossible04:38
zakkmkde4 would compile faster than kde3.04:38
zakkmthey dont use gcc for kde4.04:38
luke-jreverything uses gcc04:38
zakkmthey use cmake for kde4?04:39
luke-jrgcc is a compiler04:39
luke-jrcmake is a build system04:39
zakkmso im wrong04:39
luke-jrbuild system doesn't take up significant time04:39
zakkmi remember desktop though, it took faster to do kde4 than kde3?04:39
zakkmmight of been less packages tohugh mind you04:39
luke-jrbut not because it doesn't use GCC ;)04:39
zakkmgentoo x86_6404:39
luke-jrI'm installing Gentoo on my N81004:40
zakkmgot the right cflags?04:40
zakkmluke-jr: put compile dir, in ram.. some of it04:40
zakkmit would help compile time04:40
luke-jr-march=armv6j -mtune=arm1136jf-s -mfpu=vfp04:40
luke-jr--param ggc-min-expand=0 --param ggc-min-heapsize=3276804:41
zakkmi dont know what half that stuff is ;p but it looks complete ;p04:41
luke-jrwould it? N810 is short on RAM already..04:41
zakkmput a %04:41
zakkmmount with % of ram04:41
zakkmrather than a meg amount04:41
luke-jrthen it would just run out of space04:41
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zakkmdidnt think straight04:42
zakkmi guess if you do it for small packages?04:42
zakkmhelped alot on desktop, cut by like 2-3x but didnt have ram to worry about04:43
luke-jrI'll let vanilla-sources finish first ☺04:43
luke-jrthen I'll do benchmark04:43
luke-jron some small pkg04:43
zakkmjust use time04:43
zakkmtime emerge ..04:44
luke-jrI know04:44
zakkmwhen i think of benchmark i think of some hugee program to test cpu and such ;p04:44
zakkmi wanted to try and "port" gentoo, but im not skilled enough04:45
zakkmluke-jr: what would you install on it?04:46
z4chhzakkm, same here with arch ;o04:46
zakkmwhats the purpose your doing it for04:46
zakkmz4chh: arch doesnt have ARM support?04:46
zakkmz4chh: arch is x86/x86_64, it would be impossible.04:47
johnxI think you'd just end up swapping more on the tablet04:47
z4chharch doesn't support it officially04:47
luke-jrzakkm: ?04:47
zakkmarch supports it unofficially?04:48
zakkmluke-jr: gentoo does, archlinux doesnt04:48
zakkmz4chh: arch is fully opensource?04:48
z4chhzakkm, it would be possible but hard04:48
luke-jrzakkm: Gentoo for N810 is unofficial04:49
zakkmyeah but gentoo has ARM support04:49
zakkmArchlinux is x86 only.04:49
zakkmluke-jr: link doesnt work04:49
zakkmSafari can’t open the page “” because it can’t find the server “”.04:49
z4chhzakkm, you can compile for ARM04:49
luke-jrzakkm: fix your DNS server04:49
zakkmfix it? i wasnt aware it was broken04:50
zakkmits my default ISP dns server?04:50
luke-jrthat error says it is04:50
zakkmi know04:50
zakkmim messing around04:50
johnxzakkm, comes up here04:50
zakkmi didnt mess with my dns server though, its my default isp one04:50
johnxthen it looks like you need to fix *their* DNS server :)04:50
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zakkmdoesnt work even if i google it04:51
zakkmgoogle cache works though ;p04:51
zakkmlol weirdd04:51
zakkmwent to google cache one, then gentoo on n8x0 which took it off cache, and it works04:51
zakkmyeah i saw this page before, i was sort of waiting for the wifi though :)04:51
luke-jrzakkm: it works, just not documented04:51
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zakkmand im tired of messing much with my tablet, i installed OS2007 on it just so i would be stuck and cant mess with it04:52
luke-jrwhy 2007?04:52
zakkmi couldnt do anything with it04:52
luke-jrwhy buy it04:52
zakkmlol i use it purely as a mplayer player04:52
zakkmit has mplayer. runs fine04:53
zakkmsimple web and modest04:53
zakkmgot newest evince going04:53
zakkmi used to mess with it, im just tired of it04:53
zakkmluke-jr: thought of a different location for portage tree?04:54
luke-jrwhy would I?04:54
zakkmstorage wise?04:54
luke-jrperfectly happy with it in /usr/portage04:54
luke-jrmy rootfs is 7 GB04:55
zakkmi only have a 4gb card04:55
luke-jrme too until Newegg had a deal04:55
luke-jr$16 for 8 GB04:55
zakkmwhy not O3?04:55
zakkmReplace -Os optimization level with -O204:56
luke-jrbecause I'm more concerned with memory use ☺04:56
luke-jrand smaller size fits better in CPU cache04:56
luke-jrthe other N810/Gentoo guy is using -O204:56
zakkmdo you have parrellelfetch?04:56
luke-jrwe're going to compare04:56
PavlovOs os often faster than O204:56
Pavlovor O304:56
Pavlover, is04:56
zakkmits a make.conf "tweak"04:57
zakkmBy default when you emerge a long list of packages in Gentoo you have to download each package completely before the build process can begin. This can be a large bottleneck, especially if your internet connection is not very fast.04:57
zakkmFrom now on Portage will fetch the source files for the next package in the list even while it is compiling another package.04:57
luke-jrzakkm: screen -S fetch emerge -f …04:57
zakkmjust a simple make.conf "addon" though04:57
luke-jrif I want parallel fetch, I want it to fetch everything, not just the next pkg04:58
luke-jrall 1..100 pkg files04:58
luke-jrwhile 1 is compiling04:58
zakkmnot everybody knows that though.04:58
zakkmim just looking through your guide thinking of little tweaks to it04:58
luke-jrnot my guide04:58
zakkmnot saying you should do them, just yeah04:59
luke-jrthough I think I'll be stuck writing docs for kb04:59
luke-jrthe guy who made that guide only has N80004:59
zakkmi have a n800 :)04:59
zakkmso mad, i want n810 lol04:59
luke-jrthe keyboard sucks04:59
luke-jrget a bluetooth one and be happy ☺04:59
zakkmill trade you my 800 and $50 , ill add a female to female adapter with it :P05:00
zakkmso you can plug in usb keyboards05:00
zakkmim serious?05:00
luke-jrif you can hack that N800 into my Zaurus C760's shell, I'll do the trade ;)05:00
luke-jrC760 keyboard was awesome05:01
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zakkmi cant hack.05:01
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zakkmb-man: isnt my n800 + $50 cash + female to female adapter .. worth luke-jr's n810 ?05:01
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zakkmb-man: isnt my n800 + $50 cash + female to female adapter .. worth luke-jr's n810 ?05:01
luke-jrunfortunately, zakkm, I like to compute while driving05:02
luke-jrI don't see how I could do that at all with a N80005:02
zakkmmy trading my n800 too05:02
zakkmonscreen keyboard? no diff ;p05:02
* GeneralAntilles remembers to stay off the road while luke-jr is driving.05:02
luke-jrvery diff05:02
luke-jrlol GeneralAntilles05:02
luke-jrI'm safe ☺05:02
* b-man uses his N800 for just about anything05:02
luke-jrI keep one hand on the wheel and glance at the road often05:02
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, bullshit.05:03
GeneralAntillesYou're, what, 18?05:03
zakkmIM 18! :)05:03
b-mani'm 16 XD05:03
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: I've been driving 7 years with no tickets or accidents05:03
luke-jrthat's gotta count for SOMETHING05:04
GeneralAntillesWhich just means you've been lulled into a false sense of security.05:04
GeneralAntillesAccidents don't have to be caused by you.05:04
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: I even avoided a very close call successfully05:04
luke-jrI had to accelerate in reverse, on ice05:04
luke-jrthe guy coming down the hill couldn't stop05:05
luke-jrand either side of the road had a ditch05:05
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johnxwell, just think of how much *better* of a driver you'd be if you focused all your attention on driving :P05:06
luke-jrthough admittedly, that was probably God's handiwork and not my own, given how freaked out I was05:06
luke-jrjohnx: but then I'd miss kismet picking up APs!05:06
lcukluke-jr, where abouts are you05:06
luke-jrlcuk: Omaha, why?05:06
* b-man starts screwing around with FreeDos on his N80005:07
lcukthank fuck im in a different country :) you are driving a 1 tonne killing machine.  concentrate on the road05:07
luke-jrOmaha Linux User Group opinions seem to be more pro-computing-while-driving05:08
GeneralAntillesDefinitely avoid Omaha05:09
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luke-jrthey just realized I wasn't talking about Kansas05:11
luke-jrand that there are other cars around05:11
luke-jrguess they don't support me :<05:11
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luke-jr… they tell me to stick to texting/twittering05:12
luke-jrhow is that different?05:12
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luke-jr"you are driving, coding, installing linux on an N810 AND on IRC⁇⁇?"05:16
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Z357765413591701LOL!!!!!! XD XD XD XD XD05:17
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luke-jrFireFox16: stop that05:19
FireFox16ok XD05:19
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* FireFox16 discovers that the arm port of qemu also supports intel core2duo emulation05:22
* FireFox16 's tablet is going to blow up05:23
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zakkm/me requests a video of Firefox16's tablet blowing up05:24
zakkmwhat the /me doesnt work?05:24
* FireFox16 05:25
luke-jrzakkm: you put a space before it05:25
* zakkm ah05:26
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luke-jr2 seconds difference tmpfs vs MMC for compiling05:52
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zakkmluke-jr: it probably went into swap then / how long was total compile?06:00
luke-jrzakkm: about 3 mins06:07
zakkmoh wow06:07
luke-jrcloser to 406:07
zakkmthen thers not enough ram, i assume06:07
zakkmyou sure you tmpfs the right directory?06:07
zakkm.. /var/tmp/portage?06:07
luke-jrI am timing a larger build now06:08
zakkmit probably lacks ram then06:10
luke-jror teh compile was too short06:11
luke-jrand the time was all dependency calculations06:11
luke-jrthat si why I am timing a longer build06:11
zakkmtheorically it would work more significantly cause it would have faster read and write06:11
zakkmand compile relies quite alot on that06:11
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luke-jr14 min 16 sec with tmpfs06:13
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luke-jr13m36s with MMC06:27
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MacerStskeeps: get it yet?07:04
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luke-jr>>> Emerging (18 of 67) x11-proto/scrnsaverproto-1.1.008:07
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StskeepsMacer: under customs treatment08:39
johnxhey Stskeeps08:43
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RST38hmoo johnx, sts09:06
johnxhow goes it on this fine morning (?) RST38h?09:06
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RST38hjohnx: still sick09:08
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RST38hjohnx: and the thermometer shows 35.9oC which probably means the rigor mortis is not that far off.09:09
johnxbummer. sorry to hear that09:09
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jaemhey folks09:36
Meiz_n810hi jaem09:37
jaemhow're things in #maemo?09:38
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jaemoh wow... there's an obvious typo in my new laptop's BIOS09:45
qriti finally broke down and ordered n810!  and amazon shipped it 4 hours later, says tomarrow should be here! :D09:48
jaemqrit: woot!09:49
jaemI hope you like it :D09:49
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qrithope so too been curious about it for a long time :)  you have one?09:49
jaemyep - since last September09:50
qritwhat kind of typo we talking about in your bios?09:50
qritcool beans!!  what do you use it for the most?09:50
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jaemqrit[0]: they spelled one their headings "diagnotics" [sic]09:51
jaemqrit[1]: the N810 is really a jack of all trades, so to speak - it doesn't do all things amazingly, but it's useful for so many different things that it makes up for it09:52
jaemit's great around campus, as I can just pull it out of my belt pouch and look up something on the spot09:52
jaemor (tunnelling through my desktop with SSH) fiddle with my bank account when I'm out, and forgot to move money to the account that the debit card works with09:53
jaema bit of music09:53
qritheck ya!09:53
qriti will use it to read web pages to help fall asleep, I know09:54
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jaemvideo playback is decent, although you have to encode for the tablet, generally (use MPlayer, or another player that relies on it, as it has better performance)09:54
qritright on09:54
Stskeepsmorning johnx, RST38h, jaem09:54
jaemqrit: yes - it's good for that... and for when you can't sleep all night, and eventually just give up and read blogs09:54
jaemmorning Stskeeps09:54
qritsalivitating at maemo software avail to down load :)09:54
jaemqrit: there is some nice stuff09:55
Stskeepsyou should salivate further at the possibility of 90% of all ubuntu or debian software too :P09:55
qrityes, that too!!  very much so :)09:55
jaemStskeeps: I'm suffering from dehydration from salivating over that for so long already09:55
qriti look forward to being able to play nethack on break at work09:56
jaemis it bad that I keep accumulating computers faster than I can get to the store to buy network cable?09:56
jaemI should have just got 6 lengths last time instead of two09:56
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whmcan anyone point me to an example how to make image-viewer (the default one) to open a picture i just saved?09:57
qritsounds like you having too much fun, jaem :)09:57
jaemqrit: oh yes09:58
whmit seems image-viewer does not accept command line parameters, so i have to use dbus, right?09:58
qwerty12yes, wait a sec09:58
jaemI somehow managed to get three free laptops in about a month, all no more than 2-1/2 or so years old09:58
jaemI'm currently fighting with ImageBin so I can show you folks09:58
jaemgah - what the heck, I'll just upload it elsewhere09:59
qritsweet :)09:59
qwerty12whm: in theory, dbus-send --type=method_call /usr/bin/image_viewer string:file://<path to image>09:59
* jaem logs into his school shell account10:00
jaemthey use CSh - blech10:00
jaemmy .cshrc has one line in it10:00
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jaemthere we go10:03
whmqwerty12 thanks10:03
whmi actually need to do it from a Qt application, but that gives an idea :)10:05
qritway too many screens, jaem :)  how big is the second from the right?10:06
jaemfrom left: 15, 17, 15, 17, 24, 1410:06
jaemall in inches10:06
qritthat is the room you should hibernate in winter to keep warm you know?10:06
jaemyeah, I do10:07
x29ajaem: yay at the wrt ;)10:09
jaemx29a: it isn't currently booting from it, but I've installed a 512MB SD card in there10:09
x29aim happy with tomato on mine10:10
johnxtomato is proving to be quite rocking here too10:10
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b0unc3good morning10:32
Woollyis it possible to monitor the foreground application on the N810?10:33
Woollyif so, how? :D10:34
Stskeepsprobably some libhildonwm stuff maybe10:34
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WoollyI wonder I can request the foreground app from the dbus with a service object10:35
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WoollyStskeeps: do you know if libhildonwm has python bindings?10:42
Stskeeps.. maybe? python-hildondesktop10:42
Stskeepsnot sure10:42
Woollyi'll have a look at hildondesktop anyway, cheers :)10:43
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Woollydoes anyone know if there is an equivalent of the wnck python module for hildon?11:24
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Woollydoes anyone know how to monitor the application with window focus?11:36
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floriangood morning11:40
Woollymorning florian11:42
Woollydo you perhaps know the answer to my question?11:42
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florianWoolly: I'm nut sure what you want to achieve11:43
WoollyI want to write a command line application (in Python, hopefully) that will spit out the name of the application the user is currently using11:43
Woollyso i open up modest, it prints "modest", i open up terminal, it prints "terminal", i change back to modest, it prints "modest"11:44
florianyes it should be possible to get the id of the current toplevel window and find out the name of the matching binary11:45
florianbut i don't know offhand how to do this.11:45
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Woollyand whether it's possible in python :(11:46
Woollythanks anyway :)11:47
StskeepsX-Fade: oh, btw - you mentioned something about the problem of OBS being the "locked" repositories; - OBS support bulk import of releases (debs from dvds, etc) and does this normally11:51
X-FadeStskeeps: Yeah, I see no problems other than having to run it locallly.11:51
X-FadeStskeeps: Talked with ScriptRipper yesterday.11:52
Stskeepswe're getting radically closer to a working Mer environment in this regard, so it could be a good way to start out to see what benefits OBS brings11:52
Stskeepsi'm personally sold, and i'm difficult to satisfy :P11:53
X-FadeIf you can get experiences before the Kopenhagen meeting, that would be great.11:53
Stskeepsyeah, that's the plan11:53
Stskeepsafter 0.12 we're moving Mer sources to OBS11:53
X-FadeSo we can sit down and evaluate benefits and needs.11:53
Stskeepsand lbt will be the local expert in this area11:53
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I was talking to johnx about you talking to the dev platform team about OBS11:54
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: mm?11:54
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X-FadeOne thing we need to check is if developers work in SB, will they have SB-isms in their packages.11:54
lbtme too11:54
Stskeepsyeah, they do11:54
X-FadeWhich cause problems in OBS.11:54
Stskeepsit's very very rare though11:55
Stskeepsand often a matter of'ing11:55
lbtX-Fade: and OBS and SB1 can co-exist11:55
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, if OBS is a superior replacement to scratchbox, it seems worthwhile to convince Nokia to move that way ASAP11:55
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X-Fadelbt: As long as it is transparant for the developer.11:55
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yes, but i'm not sure it's reasonable to expect for Fremantle, though11:55
lbtit's not transparent11:55
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, no, but maybe Harmattan11:56
Stskeepsif anything, Mer and can bring the experiences to Maemo SW11:56
GeneralAntillesand talking sooner is always better than later.11:56
X-FadeStskeeps: That is why I like Mer to check it out first ;)11:56
lbt(actually that page has a step-by-step "using OBS")11:56
GeneralAntillesSince Harmattan is in that stage right now.11:56
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yeah.. i hope we can make a talk on the developer meeting11:56
Stskeepslbt: might be worth noting SB1-OBS coexistence is only if cross-building locally11:57
GeneralAntillesMight fire off an email to -developers, Soumya or something.11:58
StskeepsX-Fade: besides that, we have a bunch of patches to fix sbisms, in Mer11:58
X-FadeStskeeps: Well, I think most developers will want to compile locally when testing their app.11:58
Stskeepsyeah, true11:58
X-FadeUnless you're Khertan ;)11:59
GeneralAntillesThen everybody should just steer clear. ;)11:59
* Stskeeps curses danish customs12:00
X-FadeStskeeps: 'Gift' ;)12:00
StskeepsX-Fade: yeah, it was sent like that12:00
X-FadeStskeeps: Ah, well then they can't do anything about it ;)12:00
* Stskeeps will probably be tablet-less for his poland trip. lovely. have to drag laptop.12:00
X-FadeBut they can be slow, of course.12:01
GeneralAntillesBleh, FAQ12:04
GeneralAntillesWhat a pain12:04
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Especially as there is FAQ already ;)12:04
GeneralAntillesFAQs are such a ridiculous pain in the ass to maintain.12:04
GeneralAntillesIf people can't find things without the FAQ, I don't think the FAQ is likely to help.12:05
* Stskeeps wonders who jukey is12:05
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WoollyDoes anyone know how to get the ID of the window with focus?12:08
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qwerty12Woolly: I have a really dirty example in C that was the combination of mashing code together?12:08
Stskeepsisn't all code that?12:09
qwerty12It just prints out the PID of the active window12:09
qwerty12Ah, but this was done by me12:09
Woollyqwerty12: could I take a look, please?12:09
qwerty12Woolly: warning: it's extremely dirty:
Woollyhaha thanks :D12:10
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StskeepsX-Fade: prodded ScriptRipper about hackfest, could be good to have him along :)12:16
Stskeepsah, he's in here too ;)12:16
ScriptRipperill check if i can come. i am in munich, so i got some way to go to kopenhagen12:17
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Stskeeps*nod* there's a straight plane as well12:18
X-FadeSAS will bring you there ;)12:19
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alexgahi, any garage sysadmin around?12:58
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X-Fadealexga: Yes.12:59
Woollyanyone worked with python-xlib before?12:59
alexgaX-Fade, I requested an account but I did not receive the confirmation email13:00
qwerty12Woolly: no, but I uploaded it to Extras13:00
Woollysomeone must have asked this before somewhere, i just cant find it13:02
Woollyif I could get the code you pastebinned into python, i'd be very happy13:04
X-Fadealexga: That is because you misspelled the company you work for ;)13:04
alexgaX-Fade, :), how can I fix that?13:04
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X-FadeI updated your email address.13:06
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X-Fadealexga: Just request a new confirmation here:
GeneralAntillesI wonder where Jeremiah is hiding13:07
Stskeepshe's in oslo for a talk afaik13:08
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: If you would read the Sprint -> activity log, you would know ;)13:08
alexgaX-Fade, ok, thanks for your help :)13:08
Stskeepsthat's where i read it too :P13:08
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, that's confusing13:10
GeneralAntillesCompletely skipped over that block of text.13:10
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Woollydoes anyone know where to find API documentation for python2.5-hildondesktop?13:20
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Woollydoes anyone know how I can get the currently focussed window, in python?13:30
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RST38hEHLO all who I have not ehloed today yet13:41
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Woollyqwerty12: are you around?14:02
Woollydo you have an executable binary of that source you sent me?14:03
WoollyI'm at home just now, and cant compile it :(14:03
qwerty12Yes, but bear in mind that it prints the pid of the window - not the window id itself (it does query for the active window though)14:04
Woollythat should be okay?14:04
Woollycould i then use ps ax to look up the PID to see what application it's using?14:05
Woollywhat application the PID belongs to*14:05
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qwerty12Probably, but it's just easier to modify it to just get the UTF8_STRING string instead14:07
qwerty12Which should get the title for most apps (I think there's exceptions)14:07
qwerty12But I suck when it comes to all this anyway14:07
Woollyme too :(14:07
Woollyinstead of requesting _NET_WM_PID, i should be requesting something else?14:08
Woolly_NET_WM_UTF8_STRING perhaps?14:08
Woollyi have no idea!14:08
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Woollyahha _NET_ACTIVE_WINDOW14:11
Woollynow if only i could compile the damn thing!14:11
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RST38hSts: Like he needs to ask "why"! =)14:29
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RST38hIn related news, Nokia apparently stopped making money in 1q200914:33
Stskeepswith all that marketing information of the competitors at hand? unpossible14:34
RST38h4mil euro14:34
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RST38hThat is how much Nokia made in 1q2009. In 1q2008 it made 1.2bil14:34
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RST38hOTOH, Intel is doing pretty well =)14:36
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* ShadowJK wonders if nokia first tests the imap server from their own server, and then have the handset test it and if it doesn't work, concludes that the operator is being an asshat and blocking it14:38
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RST38hShadow: I think they just use Modest codebase and do not test at all :)14:41
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* Stskeeps yawns15:00
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GAN800qwerty12_N800, can you kill the subcategories package?15:04
qwerty12_N800X-Fade can delete packages15:05
qwerty12_N800I can't but I wouldn't be upset to see that one go :)15:05
lcukif i hook up my 810 using usb lead and ive got a memory card formatted as something2 (very technical i cant remember the name) can i access it over usb15:06
X-FadeI can kill it.15:06
lcukX-Fade, with fire15:07
X-Fadeqwerty12_N800: Removed, although it will take some time for the index to be regenerated.15:08
GAN800Do we want to start the packaging spam with the library maintainers?15:08
X-FadeMaybe create a nice wiki page explaining the idea?15:08
X-FadeAnd then point them to it?15:08
GAN800lcuk, assuming whatever you're connecting it to supports ext15:08
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GAN800qwerty12, X-Fade, Jaffa, mikkov_, whomever, you guys want to start thinking about what might be useful to look for in a packaging audit?15:10
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GeneralAntilles@Digia may very well trigger a watchdog reset trying to load itT.15:12
lcukthanks gan :) tis ubuntu laptop ill make sure first \o15:12
GeneralAntillesAh, good, it came out of it.15:13
GeneralAntillesOK then, there's 20MB I don't need to keep on there.15:13
RST38hTrying to load ITT in @Digia may well cause a localized case of nuclear winter or something15:13
* RST38h wonders how this thing works in mobile phones though15:13
qwerty12_N800RST38h: it's for UIQ - it'd probably pass looking at the fact SE shipped UIQ phones with Opera...15:14
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RST38hqwerty: UIQ or not, those phones have even less resources than the tablets15:15
qwerty12_N800@scene is a pretty awesome youtube client though. Shame Digia@Web doesn't match up to it15:17
lcuko_O "this tweet is made using maemo 5 OS running on a mobile computer."15:21
RST38hAnd this message is probably longer than the tweet itself15:22
Stskeepslcuk: ?15:22
GAN800lcuk, whores15:22
GAN800X-Fade, you got any fun useragents yet.15:22
X-FadeGAN800: Pretty predictable ones.15:23
lcuknot me of course15:23
Stskeeps"mobile computer"? :P15:23
* lcuk has only just started twittering (twattering? twottering?)15:23
Jaffa"twatting" or "tweeting" ;-)15:24
Jaffa"I tweet, you twat"? ;-)15:24
lcuktracy thinks thats the most disgusting word in the entire english language and is very careful about who she calls15:24
GAN800I wish twitter would die already15:25
lcukunless of course some twat just cut her up at the roundabout!15:25
Jaffalcuk: heh15:25
* lcuk grabs his coat15:25
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GAN800Jaffa, watch, what Nokia's got cooking is MicroB embedded in h-a-m loading (sans integration). ;)15:31
JaffaGAN800: ...and I wouldn't be surprised :-/15:32
GAN800Yeah, nor would I. :\15:33
X-Fadenot sans.15:34
GAN800X-Fade, they're just misleading you. ;)15:34
X-Fadeno comment ;)15:35
lcukdoes this mean we can remove the specific icon from the packages for the new os?15:35
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VDVsxJaffa, GAN800, I think the council should raise the voice again about the maemo brainstorm implementation, it make no sense to me implement all the ideatorrent functions again just because the site use midgard, but it just my opinion :)15:39
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VDVsxand I doubt it will be ready by the end of April also15:40
X-FadeVDVsx: It is just that adding another service to our servers is a _major_ pain.15:41
X-FadeIt seems easy, until you got to maintain it.15:41
X-FadeAnd integrate accounts etc etc.15:41
GAN800VDVsx, it's not as clear as all that unfortunately.15:41
GAN800Need a drupal/Midgard eal. :D15:42
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X-FadeAdding drupal for instance, means you need to check every php upgrade, mysql upgrade etc if they still work.15:42
lcukif could somehow clone x-fade then perhaps it would be possible, he could have stay at home niels, working niels, server support niels and irc niels15:42
X-FadeProper maintenance is not that easy ;)15:42
lcukinfact, we should anyway with just a short shell script ;)15:43
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lcuk(and i hope to god i got your name right)15:43
X-FadeAnd when you add services, your checklist becomes longer and longer.15:43
GAN800lcuk, we're replacing you with a shell script next. :P15:44
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VDVsxX-Fade, ok I understand,but I would prefer to use a stable system than pass the rest of the year waiting for the new one to become stable :P, but is just my opinion, I also dunno if it is easy to port ideatorrent to midgrad15:46
X-FadeVDVsx: Basic functionality is easy.15:47
X-FadeVDVsx: And a deadline has been committed to, so I wouldn't worry?15:47
GAN800Anybody else want to address krisse's sales numbers post?15:47
VDVsxX-Fade, ok, we will see :)15:48
StskeepsGAN800: you can always twist it into a discussion on Maemo as an OS on non-Nokia devices15:49
lcukhow do you think the first ideastorm type app came into being?  how did they manage the brainstorming to end up with it?15:49
Stskeepsand the fact none of the other providers have actually come up with something that works like Maemo15:49
GAN800She's got the wrong perspective15:49
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GAN800and some incorrect assumptions about the divisions money making ability15:50
Stskeepsi guess a lot of research in maemo has landed in other divisions15:50
GAN800crashanddie ran some rough numbers and it sure looks like they're probably in the black15:51
GAN800That too15:51
Stskeepsalso, how come every other division is firing when maemo is hiring? :P15:51
GAN800But absolute numbers aren't really useful15:51
Stskeepsno sane manager would allow that :)15:51
Stskeepsif there wasn't a + to the tablets or a long term viable goal15:51
* RST38h yawns15:52
GAN800Every public statement I've seen about tablet sales has been surprise at the numbers.15:52
RST38hGentlemen, what you see on a device is not Maemo but Hildon and Hildon did come from a non-Maemo device15:52
Stskeepstrue, and they were way ahead with a lot of that stuff15:53
RST38hYes, except that this stuff has been known since early EPOC times15:53
RST38h(look at Psion organizers and you will see some similar features)15:53
Stskeepsthe power management tricks and RAM saving stuff too15:54
Stskeepsare neat15:54
RST38hNow, other people also tried some of that but they failed15:54
X-FadeHildon was designed for Series90, IIRC.15:54
RST38hpower management stuff came directly from Symbian15:54
GAN800It's evolved a lot since then15:54
Mikho_does anybody know what is the fullscreen button on keyboard when working with maemo running inside scratchbox?15:55
StskeepsMikho_: f5-f6-f7, one of those15:55
Mikho_ok, thanks15:56
JaffaVDVsx: no reason you can't post this - I'm just worried about it becoming another half-finished midgard module (like the calendar, or the fora) which is unfair perhaps, as as X-Fade says, they've committed to a deadline15:56
qwerty12_N800Mikho_: F615:56
StskeepsX-Fade: heh, that's a netbook right there :P15:56
X-FadeAnyway, Hildon existed in 2003 already, so ;)15:56
StskeepsRST38h: from SW pov it seems we've succeed in mer in replicating the power saving methods, which is interesting15:57
Stskeepsas in, i understand what makes it tick :P15:59
Stskeepsthere's probably a bunch of stuff on the kernel-hw stuff, but still15:59
GAN800Has the multi-unit version of ati85 been released yet?15:59
GAN800Yeah, lot of powersaving is in kernel16:00
X-FadeGAN800: About Downloads. m.n.o will just fetch from our Downloads through our api.16:00
GAN800Yeah, I know, only kidding. :P16:00
Stskeepsfor good measure, why not re microb rendering, and .install?16:01
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X-FadeStskeeps: ?16:02
Stskeepsas in, why not just reduce HAM to be "Installed applications" "Upgrades" and handling .install files, and then simply get apps through the browser :P16:02
Stskeepsmuch more adaptable16:02
Stskeepswell, in microb maybe..16:02
GAN800native makes more sense16:03
X-FadeMost important, not offline.16:03
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X-FadeAlthough a dbus service could be useful.16:05
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X-FadeGAN800: We might want to think about warning people who put packages in user/* which are not meant to be in user. (Like libs etc)16:10
JaffaX-Fade: how do you decide?16:10
X-FadeJaffa: Well, that is the hard part ;)16:10
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X-FadeJaffa: Obviously libgnokii doesn't belong there.16:11
X-FadeJaffa: But gnokii itself does.16:11
JaffaX-Fade: but "librarian" (a notional book-shelf app) would16:11
GAN800X-Fade, I think I'll setup some wiki pages for it this weekend.16:11
X-FadeJaffa: Yes, so we need to be smart ;)16:12
JaffaX-Fade: We might want to think about solving the Halting Problem and prove that P=NP too whilst we're at it ;-)16:12
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X-FadeJaffa: Well, you can check if it is a dependency for another package and if it starts with lib ;)16:12
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X-FadeBut there are probably more things that need to be tested for.16:13
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GAN800Is there (or should there) be a list of valid non-user/ categories?16:15
JaffaX-Fade: ah, if it's a dependency of something else is a good measure - I like that16:15
X-FadeGAN800: Anything goes?16:15
JaffaGAN800: Debian policy - but basically, meh16:15
GAN800Fair enough16:16
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X-FadeJaffa: Btw, I'll look for the repo key.16:20
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JaffaX-Fade: cool16:21
X-FadeSee if I have it somewhere ;)16:21
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JaffaNo-one's jumping up and down at Nokia, so I reckon we go for it :)16:21
GAN800X-Fade, any idea where Marcell's hiding?16:21
X-FadeGAN800: Crazy busy with SDK testing, I think.16:21
GAN800Jaffa, this is where Ari hulks out in the server room. ;)16:21
RST38hSts: that is surprising given how elaborate the power saving stuff is =)16:22
GAN800I want my new r.m.o. :(16:22
* Jaffa would love to have the community domain-modifying package pushed out to existing users, but dropping it into the Extras .install works :)16:22
RST38hGAN800: If you mean the one where calc model is selected via a menu, yes16:22
X-FadeGAN800: Nah, Jaffa had dinner with Ari. ;)16:22
RST38hGAN800: BTW, if you have got a 84+ or 83+SE or 84+SE, I would appreciate a ROm dump =)16:22
GAN800RST38h, it's out? I just updated but can't seem to figure that out.16:22
JaffaHe buys good wine - I'm keeping him on side ;-)16:22
RST38hGAN800: [FullScreen] button :)16:23
* Jaffa was wondering how to get to it :)16:23
GAN800RST38h, 84s, my sister lost my 83. Got a step-by-step?16:23
GAN800What's the menu key bound to?16:24
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RST38hGAN800: it should not be bound to anything, as it is hidden with the keyboard anyway16:24
GAN800Not on N80016:25
GAN800The menu key makes way more sense to me than the fullscreen key.16:25
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RST38hGAN800: ROM dumping proggie:
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RST38hShould come with instructions.16:26
RST38hGAN800: No problem, I will bind it to either key, although FullScreen definitely makes more sense on n810, when you hold it vertically16:26
GAN800DOS, not gonna happen soon.16:26
RST38hArgh, a Mac nut...16:27
RST38hOk, let's see if there is anything available for MacOS...16:27
GAN800Or Linux16:27
GAN800I just don't have easy access to Windows machines most of the time.16:27
RST38hWait, you should be ok as long as you can receive stuff from 84+16:27
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RST38h"rom8x is a console program that will aid one in creating a ROM file. It does not require a specific linking software, as everything on the calculator-end is saved into an AppVar which is sendable via all computer<->calculator linking software"16:28
GAN800Is there the slightest chance of getting 68k stuff?16:28
RST38hYea. If somebody pays me ~$4-6k for writing a decent 68k core16:29
GAN800Fair enough16:29
RST38hNotice that it should not necessarily be done for the calc project16:29
GAN800I got too used to the 89ti16:30
RST38hJust ANY customer who needs a 68k-based emulation and is willing to license 68k core non-exclusively16:30
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RST38hOk, about the rom8x thing: if you read the instructions, it looks like you can just upload and run the 8x program from the Get subdirectory and receive dump using any calc connectivity software16:32
RST38hNo need to run rom8x.exe, as it is simply a convertor16:32
GAN800I think I can get ahold of an 83+ SE but it'll be a few weeks.16:33
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RST38hIf you at least figure out how to dump 84+SE, it will prvide me with a couple of weeks of owkr16:37
RST38hAlso, I probably won't include ROM into the package (users will have to download their own), because this model is still being widely sold16:37
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qwerty12_N800Not even maemo-mini-curl in postinst? =)16:38
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GAN800TI's new touchscreen calcs freak me out.16:40
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RST38hthey have got touchscreen calcs now???16:48
* RST38h googles16:48
RST38hAnd Casio too.... And even HP is still making some calcs16:49
infobotGAN800 meant: n-spire16:49
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GAN800They're riduclously powerful16:49
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RST38hThey should just release a software-only version of this stuff for common handhelds (WinMo) and phones16:51
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infobotI herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power16:54
GAN800Entry is such a pain though16:54
GAN800and what about testing?16:54
RichiHas i am sure someone from nokia is around here:
RichiHit would be nice if someone could escalate this to whereever16:54
RST38hRichiH: I doubt anybody here can16:55
GAN800Maemo != S6016:56
* RichiH knows16:56
GAN800As far as I'm aware, there's a Symbian channel16:56
RST38hAnd even if it were in Maemo, neither Quim nor engineers have any steer on political decisions16:56
RichiHbut maemo is tied rather close to nokia16:56
RST38hRichiH: The proper place to vent is Forum Nokia16:56
GAN800Maemo SW is a long ways away from S6016:56
RichiHGAN800: hmm, there is. sorry16:56
GAN800Nokia Care is a good option16:57
whmaccording to blog owner nokia is aware of this16:57
whmthat's a big screw-up though16:58
* lbt wonders if it would have happened in a more open development environment...16:59
GAN800I mean, look at Debian and ssl. ;)17:00
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GAN800Less likely, but there's no guarantees.17:00
X-FadeEven if the code is available, there need to be people actually looking.17:01
whmif this is big, then debian & ssl was planet-like :)17:01
RichiHGAN800: totally different situations, but a valid point17:01
X-FadeAnd understanding the code.17:01
RichiHthe debian ssl bug was prolly one of the worst things ever, so yes :)17:01
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RST38hGAN800: Nokia Care *probably* puts your reports directly into trash can17:02
GAN800When it's open, you have the opportunity to catch it, but, like X-Fade say, you need eyes on it.17:03
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GAN800RST38h, they don't17:03
RST38hBut at the Forum there is some chance to get response from a living being17:03
GAN800Individually they aren't a whole lot of good17:03
GAN800But in aggregate people definitely pay attention.17:03
RST38hStatistically, maybe17:03
RST38hThat is no path to personal gratification and/or vindication though :)17:04
GAN800Every Nokian I've ever talked to bout it has recommended Nokia Care, so. . . .17:04
infobotGAN800 meant: Every Nokian I've ever talked to about it has recommended Nokia Care, so. . . .17:04
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RST38hGAn800: Just means it is a corporate policy17:05
GAN800Anyway, whatever.17:05
GAN800I care exactly this || much about S6017:06
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* RST38h fruitlessly searches the PCB for the SW12 switch17:07
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svu_alterego ?17:20
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t_s_ohave anyone else experienced that a number of python processes gets fired up for no apparent reason?18:25
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X-FadeLol ;)18:27
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* qwerty12 has seen that for the 3rd time today18:34
qwerty12on this chan18:34
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mgedminare there any clients for maemo that support openid authentication?18:58
qwerty12I don't think there is even any clients for Maemo, forget OpenID18:59
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MyrttiI don't know if there are *any* clients that support openid19:00
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luke-jrhow many people here use swap?19:16
Shasiei do for sure :)19:19
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gomiamluke-jr: I do too19:19
||cwalmost required on the 77019:21
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||cwmakes a HUGE difference19:21
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t_s_oi have been turning it on and off lately to check if a hang/reboot issue i have been having with the app manager update check was related to swap use19:29
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RST38hSymbian has been ported to Atom. Weird.20:20
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VDVsxRST38h, source ?20:21
jaskai wish theyd put it in the trashcan already20:21
luke-jr>>> Emerging (4 of 8) x11-base/xorg-server-
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suihkulokkithe last chapter makes my brain explode20:25
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RST38hjaska: Hey, stop offending Symbian! It is the only alternative we have to Win Mobile!20:26
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luke-jrRST38h: Linux works20:27
RST38hluke: How many smartphones with Linux can you name?20:27
luke-jrdefine smartphone20:28
luke-jrI fully intend to use my N810 as a phone20:28
VDVsxRST38h, well, I liked symbian a lot until I started developing to the plataform :P20:28
RST38hluke: Thanks for proving my point =)20:28
lcukluke-jr, i hope to god you are parked up20:29
RST38hVDVsx: Yes, it is pain.20:29
luke-jrlcuk: ?20:29
luke-jr'luke-jr' is my desktop ☺20:29
luke-jrLuke-N810 and Luke-Jr2 are my N81020:29
RST38hVDVsx: But it works, makes calls, receives calls, does not make user commit suicide in the process like Win Mobile20:29
ShadowJKmy symbian phone doesn't always agree to make calls :-)20:30
ShadowJKor receive them20:30
RST38hNever failed me.20:30
lcuki can see the microsoft ticket now: "user committed suicide whilst on important business call"  Fixed in sp220:30
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luke-jrMicrosoft has tickets?20:31
luke-jrI thought they just fixed things randomly, when they did fix things20:31
ShadowJKIt's typical early-nokia (and also iphone had this bug) where the phone sometimes fails to switch back to gsm after you leave a 3G area20:31
VDVsxRST38h, from a user perspective a still like symbian :), and the s60 5ed is very responsive and fast :), I don't comment Win Mob :P20:31
RST38hShadow: Ah, I have no 3G20:31
RST38hShadow: E70 supports it but MTS *still* hasn't paid bribes to proper people, apparently20:32
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RST38hVDVsx: It isn't that bad to program for either, but you have to wrap everything because the default APIs are pure nightmare20:32
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ShadowJKMTS... was that the awesome south african operator that had a web-to-sms gateway in 1997? :-)20:34
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VDVsxRST38h, probably, I don't have much experience with symbian c++,I need to do some prototypes and now I'm doing it with python, but at some point I will need to switch to symbian c++ :(20:37
ShadowJKah no that was mtn... maybe20:37
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* lcuk tests a hold theory21:13
lcukhi GnutOnMobile \o21:13
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qritwoot ups lady just delivered n810 :)21:15
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fauxmightluke-jr: when you say you'll use n810 as a phone, are you intending to run your own asterisk server?21:23
luke-jrfauxmight: have been for 5 years21:24
fauxmightWith n810?21:24
fauxmightDo you use ipkall for incoming?21:24
luke-jrI use Google GrandCentral for incoming21:24
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luke-jrfree phone service ftw21:24
fauxmightI have no other phone number, so the free Seattle workks quite nicely.21:24
fauxmightn810 as phone has been allright for me, but I've never completely eradicated one-way audio on some incoming calls when the 810 is behind different firewall than * server.21:25
q_how long do you have to charge n810 the first time?  couple hours?21:25
luke-jrI do wish Google didn't force me to go through Gizmo tho21:25
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luke-jrfauxmight: yeah, I plan to switch to IAX2 ASAP21:26
fauxmightahh, that would be a breaking point for me.21:26
luke-jrheck, right now I get one-way audio even on the same LAN21:26
fauxmightI had IAX for quite a while, but with no IAX in telepathy, it was more work than it was worth and call quality was often subpar.21:26
luke-jrI'm installing Gentoo on my N81021:27
fauxmightI switched back to SIP and dealt with the firewall.21:27
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fauxmightCool. Slonopotomus method or mine?21:27
luke-jrfauxmight: you have one?21:28
luke-jroh, that's you?21:29
luke-jryou stopped updating ;)21:29
fauxmightI stopped working on it, too.21:29
luke-jrI went with the most recent date21:29
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lcukwaiting for the build to finish21:29
fauxmightI'm pretty sure slono's gotten further, but I really hate the maemo kernel.21:29
luke-jr1239902548:  === (4 of 8) Compiling/Packaging (x11-base/xorg-server-
fauxmightnice :)21:30
luke-jrfauxmight: why'd you give up?21:30
fauxmightAre you compiling native?21:30
fauxmightI just don't have the time to keep playing. I'll get back to it eventually.21:30
luke-jrfauxmight: more people = less time each ;)21:30
fauxmightI really want a clean catalyst-built n810 stage with proper arm optimizations.21:30
luke-jrI'm sure slono wouldn't mind opening his overlay up for us to work on21:31
luke-jrfauxmight: slono's got proper optimizations21:31
fauxmightThat was my goal, but it got a bit overwhelming. By the time slono stepped up, I'd been out of it a while.21:31
luke-jrhe used crossdev instead of catalyst tho21:31
luke-jr-march=armv6j -mtune=arm1136jf-s -mfpu=vfp21:31
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fauxmightHe's got an overlay, now?21:31
luke-jr--param ggc-min-expand=0 --param ggc-min-heapsize=3276821:31
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luke-jrthe first flagset are the CPU stuff21:32
* fauxmight 's been gone too long :)21:32
luke-jrthe second flagset makes GCC use a sane amount of RAM21:32
luke-jroverlay has boot scripts, drivers, etc21:32
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luke-jrwifi drivers too, but he hasn't documented yet21:32
fauxmightI got wifi going, but I used the lin-omap kernel to do so.21:33
fauxmightand stlc4521:33
luke-jrI might get to that sometime21:33
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luke-jrdoes stlc45 work yet?21:33
luke-jrI mean well21:33
luke-jrdoes it support packet injection? :D21:33
fauxmightProbably bad power mgt, though.21:33
luke-jrwell, the proprietary driver is bad pwr mgmt too21:33
luke-jrit tries to use the stupid power saving mode all the time21:34
luke-jrwhich is a flawed concept IMO21:34
fauxmightah, the 'oposite' kind of bad power m.21:34
fauxmightWill you use asterisk on 810 as your sip/iax phone, or xlite/ekiga/friends?21:35
luke-jrnot sure yet21:35
fauxmightI had asterisk native in maemo when I was using IAX and did the IAX/sip translation on the phone.21:35
luke-jrhonestly, I've never found a softphone that I like21:35
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fauxmightIt was good for the nat cross, but bad for quality.21:35
luke-jrI'm a Qt4-only guy21:36
luke-jrI hard mask GTK ☺21:36
fauxmighttelepathy sofia in diablo is oddly the best I've seen.21:36
fauxmightreverse that here.21:36
luke-jrI'm installing KDE 4.2 on my N81021:36
fauxmighte16, baby21:36
luke-jrmaybe I'll just wait for KDE 4.3 which should support Jingle video/voice21:36
* luke-jr would consider alternate DEs, provided they are Qt4 ;)21:37
* aquatix should try e1621:37
fauxmightI'd be interested to know how it performs. If I ever get back to it, I will likely wrap some small bash around asterisk console for softphone.21:37
aquatixor rather, e1721:37
RST38hXFCE anyone?21:37
aquatixxfce rocks21:37
Meiz_n810there will be plasma-mid too21:37
fauxmighte16 = enlightenment Not a bit e17 fan.21:37
* aquatix has used it since the early betas of 4.021:38
luke-jrwtf is that21:38
Meiz_n810it plasma for MIDs21:38
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luke-jrMeiz_n810: what is a MID?21:38
luke-jrI presume you don't mean MIDI21:38
Meiz_n810Mobile Internet Device21:38
luke-jrwhat's wrong with the current plasma?21:38
Meiz_n810Internet Tablets are MIDs21:38
luke-jrand why does plasma care if I have internet or not?21:39
Meiz_n810luke-jr, plasma-mid will be more touchscreen optimized21:39
Meiz_n810mids are small devices with touchscreen21:39
luke-jrMeiz_n810: so I should be installing KDE 4.3 beta?21:39
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Meiz_n810luke-jr: plasma-mid is not available yey21:40
luke-jrif it's not available, how will it be in 4.3?21:40
Meiz_n810it won't21:40
Meiz_n810but maybe with 4.421:40
RST38hGizmodo went severely audiofilish lately21:40
* RST38h wonders when this craze will end21:41
luke-jrby the time KDE 4.4 is out, I will have moved on from N810 I'm sure21:41
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RST38hSCP-570 is to be contained within a reinforced synthetic diamond case, 6 cm thick and layered with various motion and stress detection equipment.21:44
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* RST38h pulls the plug22:51
lcuknooooooooooooooooooooooooo i hadn't saved22:52
lbtif I boot diablo with 3222222222222222222222222222222222222222222:52
qwerty12_N800Nah, it's more like 66622:53
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lbtyou too eh?22:53
RST38hlcuk: If you were using PICO though, you would have a backup file! =)22:53
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luke-jris it possible to use a fingerprint to authenticate with the N810's ts?22:57
lbtlow accuracy though22:58
luke-jrlbt: enough to avoid casual spoofing?22:58
luke-jreg, lock out petty theives22:58
lbtprovided you keep it in a locked case22:58
lbtthe resolution is orders of magnitude too low22:58
lcukand put a big sign up "beward of the leapord"22:58
lbtyou may be able to photograph your finger though22:59
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RST38hAFAIK, fingerprints have 1/50 repeat rate, for a single finger22:59
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RST38hNext time somebody takes them from you, keep this in mind =)22:59
lcuki almost did a fake fingerprint detector a while back23:00
luke-jrface recog?23:00
luke-jrI presume the VGA is way too low res for retina ;)23:00
lcukwouldv sneakily pressed one of the hardkeys when "authenticating"23:00
lcukshould be decent enough, its lighting23:00
lcukbut you could strobe the display - liqbase does a camera flash effect ;)23:00
* RST38h votes for blood samples23:00
RST38hWhy make login procedure easy?23:01
RST38hThen every idiotic busybody will be able to login23:01
lbtbest way would be to remove the SD card23:01
lbtand have a ssh key on it23:01
lcukif you could use the usb in same manner23:01
lbtusb key23:02
luke-jrlbt: SD card is my rootfs23:02
RST38hAh, TX wants to secede! Jesus, just for this once, I am asking YOU, not the Tentacled One, please, PLEASE, make this happen!23:02
lbtthat'll stop em23:02
lcuksomething small enough to still allow closing the kickstand23:02
luke-jrRST38h: link?23:02
lbtlcuk... did you see
lbtvery first run of Qt shopper on Mer23:03
lcukit says "cannot authenticate, please press palm on screen"23:03
lbt(copied binary so no icons...)23:04
lcukwhen are you making butties?23:05
lbtit is quite good now... I really wanted the battery charged to do a video23:05
lbtnot allowed23:05
lbtI put on too much weight!23:05
lcukall the more for me :D23:05
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* lbt sniffs sadly23:05
lcukill let you know how nice they are23:05
lbtwith avacado and mayonaisse23:06
lcukbleugh! avacado on bacon butties?23:07
lbtno brown sauce or ketchup <ugh>23:07
lcukthats, like, an evil combination23:07
lcuki can understand BLT (even thats pushing it!)23:07
lbtnah, it means you can eat them when the bacon is cold23:08
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lbtso if you sneak down in the middle of the night23:08
lbtand can't cook23:08
lcukbacon is delicious at any temp :D23:08
lbtbut if it doesn't melt the butter?23:08
lcukheh when i cant cook i reach for the drizzle cake23:08
lcukyou melt your butter? i just eat it in spoonfuls out of the tub23:09
lcukive never tried it any other way23:09
* lcuk actually heaved then23:09
lbtdo the N800 batteries get worse with age?23:11
lcukall batteries do i think23:11
lcukyou runnin mer?23:11
lbtmines < 1 yr23:11
lbtI know Mer eats them23:12
lbtbut mainly Diablo23:12
luke-jrRST38h: New Hampshire too ö23:12
lcukmy 810 is over a year old now and is just as happy as at the start23:12
* Jaffa yawns23:13
lcukhey jaf23:13
* lbt yanwed in sympathy.... irc is spooky23:13
lcukluke-jr, google will tell you23:13
johnx|n800my battery is just about toast after two years23:16
lcukthats cos you have been driving at 300mph since you got it23:16
johnx|n800actually I didn't do all that much driving for the last 2 years23:17
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