| lcuk | oooer i think something broked clutter since i was last playing | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
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| lbt | Stskeeps: pngs ? | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: ah, just wondering where wazd disappeared off to and 0.10 won't have shiny artwork until we push out a theme update | 00:05 |
| lbt | I can do technical things to pngs with Gimp - but not artistic things :) | 00:06 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 00:06 |
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| Stskeeps | i think i'll be fine, the release tomorrow will teach me the lesson we need to plan better and have a testing week :) | 00:06 |
| lbt | wasn't sure if you needed some images chopping up and making transparent - that kind of help :) | 00:06 |
| lbt | good idea that ;) | 00:07 |
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| Stskeeps | right, and obviously the 0.10 test image i just made fails to boot | 00:09 |
| Stskeeps | that's just lovely. | 00:09 |
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| lcuk | ive got a bit of a problem with vnc. ive got the server running on my laptop, ive got the client running on my tablet. i can see the screen. if i open a console directly on the laptop itself and run an app it opens a clutter window and runs. if i do this from the other putty console ive got open from my desktop to laptop i cannot see it and the app segfaults | 00:25 |
| lcuk | i have already tried: export DISPLAY=:0.0 | 00:25 |
| lcuk | which used to work for a similar issue | 00:25 |
| lcuk | any ideas? | 00:25 |
| Proteous | what's a clutter window | 00:26 |
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| lcuk | clutter is the opengl based UI framework for maemo5 | 00:26 |
| Proteous | ah | 00:26 |
| lcuk | i can see the hand spinning round now over the vnc connection | 00:27 |
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| lcuk | but i started the app from within the laptop itself | 00:27 |
| lcuk | i want to use the other normal ssh console window to run and read output from | 00:27 |
| qwerty12_N800 | this ssh session is under the user you want to run the app as? ssh x forwarding disabled? | 00:29 |
| lcuk | mmm not sure | 00:30 |
| lcuk | ill restart the sessions and confirm which is which | 00:30 |
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| Proteous | maybe try setting "let remote server deal with mouse cursor" | 00:33 |
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| lcuk | hurrah!!! thank you once again southern linux guru | 00:38 |
| lcuk | Proteous, it was the users and permissions and stuff | 00:38 |
| Proteous | cool | 00:38 |
| lcuk | now i can run clutter apps (slowly) but get them on my tablet in front of me :) | 00:38 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe :) | 00:38 |
| mavhc | do remote x apps cope with the network connection dying yet? | 00:42 |
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| sanchiii | hi guys and gals, is there anyone who can explain me some thing about packaging a python lib? | 00:45 |
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| sanchiii | I would like to package python libraries with py2deb, optimally using bdist_maemo, but it looks like I need to specify data_files and other files, but I would like it to grab a set as bdist_dumb does... | 00:47 |
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| lcuk | sanchiii, not sure, normal developers have to (on the whole) manually setup their packages, the py2deb one is a simplified process. perhaps you could find out how to extend it by looking at the python code itself | 00:55 |
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| lcuk | perhaps you could extend it to add the wildcard support or something? | 00:56 |
| sanchiii | hm... I guess it should somehow work (bdist_dumb works as well) with the standard way. Just that bdist_maemo doesn't do anything here | 00:58 |
| sanchiii | I guess that usually it should work with "packages=find_packages(exclude=['ez_setup'])," - that finds all packages that are in the directory | 00:59 |
| sanchiii | or is the way to build it using bdist_dumb and then with py2deb only copy all files into the dest dir? | 01:02 |
| lcuk | ive never used either and im not a python dev and ive worked on exactly 1 package in my life :) | 01:02 |
| * lcuk isnt the best person to ask :P | 01:03 | |
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| sanchiii | :) thanks anyway (waiting for more online python devs...) | 01:04 |
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| bbns | hi is there anyone developing maemo 5 on device here? | 01:06 |
| * fireun is developing maemo .17 | 01:07 | |
| GeneralAntilles | bbns, plenty of people, but they're all under NDA. :) | 01:07 |
| lcuk | bbns, on which device | 01:07 |
| bbns | well, i am thinking of BeagleBoard. | 01:07 |
| bbns | because i want to test the real power of potential device, for instance, OpenGL ES | 01:08 |
| lcuk | bbns, how fast does you scratchbox run | 01:08 |
| bbns | i only have a vmware one. | 01:08 |
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| bbns | which is pretty slow (from my point of view). | 01:08 |
| lcuk | see here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=271812 | 01:09 |
| bbns | thanks a bunch! | 01:10 |
| lcuk | i asked basically the same question and got a decent preview from someone whos running it still inside scratchbox but with a more realistic looking and feeling speed | 01:10 |
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| lcuk | when running it myself i was getting 5 seconds a frame!!! | 01:10 |
| lcuk | i couldnt tell anything | 01:10 |
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| bbns | hmm so that's on scratchbox + xephyr on X86 target? | 01:11 |
| lcuk | yes | 01:11 |
| lcuk | bbns, since we dont know the actual specific hard figures for performance (it appears to still be being pored over if you follow #beagle) the best advice if you want to develop new clutter/opengl applications is keep it minimal. the simpler the better - use opengl to enchance what you do, dont depend on 10000000000000 polys per mesh | 01:12 |
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| bbns | i see. yep i have tried that. but i would like to see how it runs on ARM because scratchbox doesn't give me enough confident. :-/ | 01:13 |
| lcuk | bbns, thats all we have. and what i see now gives me confidence :) | 01:13 |
| lcuk | i was like you until i had seen the video | 01:13 |
| bbns | :-P okay! it looks like it's the only way to go. | 01:14 |
| lcuk | yeah :) | 01:14 |
| lcuk | now ive got clutter itself running natively on my x86 laptop. and im using VNC to get it through to my tablet | 01:14 |
| lcuk | so i get fast clutter performance and as close to a real experience as i can | 01:14 |
| bbns | so VNC on Tablet and outsource to the laptop? | 01:14 |
| lcuk | yes | 01:15 |
| lcuk | you can touch your apps as you build them | 01:15 |
| bbns | ah ... i see. on N8x0? | 01:15 |
| sanchiii | About package categories for extras-devel for diablo: Do libraries go into programming? | 01:15 |
| lcuk | you can do the same from your scratchbox as well, but it sounds like you have enough complications there | 01:15 |
| lcuk | yes | 01:15 |
| bbns | thanks a bunch. i was going to port my iphone 3D engine to maemo. | 01:16 |
| lcuk | great :) | 01:16 |
| bbns | and getting hesitated which is the best way. | 01:16 |
| lcuk | well i dont know the best way either lol | 01:16 |
| bbns | lol. ok | 01:16 |
| lcuk | heres my work that i want to see in ogl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY | 01:17 |
| bbns | how's the Qt port on maemo 5? is it stable enough? | 01:17 |
| lcuk | theres a few other vids as well | 01:17 |
| lcuk | qt on the n810 is coming along nicely, i cant see it being worse on maemo 5 | 01:17 |
| lcuk | we have a couple of apps now and still obvious bugs to iron out | 01:17 |
| bbns | wow really smooth. is that the same tablet i have here? :-p | 01:18 |
| lcuk | yeah, you can install a slightly older version (same speed just no zooming) its called liqbase :) | 01:18 |
| bbns | my tablet will stuck even zoom in and zoom out. | 01:18 |
| bbns | i see. gotta take a memo. | 01:19 |
| sanchiii | lcuk, are you using qt default (maemo) theme on tablet? I found it almost impossible to use because of all the missing GUI lines, so I had to use style window | 01:19 |
| lcuk | sanchiii, don't ask me, im not a qt developer - poke lbt :) | 01:19 |
| lcuk | but style window sounds right because he mentioned css a few times | 01:19 |
| * lbt pokes sanchiii pre-emptively | 01:20 | |
| * bbns wonders if anyone familiar with QGL | 01:20 | |
| lcuk | jesus h i just nearly set light to my head and hand and keyboard and worst of all, my tablet | 01:20 |
| bbns | is QGL a wrap up between OpenGL / OpenGL ES? | 01:21 |
| * bbns is confused while diving his nose on the API manual. | 01:21 | |
| lbt | lcuk I once did that. Filled up a lighter on top of a big fridge. Gas went all over the place. .............. Then I tested the lighter..... | 01:22 |
| lcuk | this is a petrol zippo, first time ive filled it up in a couple of weeks | 01:22 |
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| lbt | luckily I don't smoke. I just wanted to make a WD-40 flamethrower.... | 01:23 |
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| lcuk | heh | 01:24 |
| lbt | sanchiii: I don't know why it does it | 01:24 |
| lbt | it could be expecting a default style | 01:24 |
| lcuk | sanchiii, file a bug on the qt4 garage page | 01:24 |
| sanchiii | I think the default style is that one, with few lines, | 01:24 |
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| b-man16 | lbt: i've allrety done that XD | 01:29 |
| lbt | ? | 01:30 |
| lbt | b-man16: ? | 01:31 |
| b-man16 | i've made a flamethrower with starter fluid - kinda crazy | 01:33 |
| b-man16 | that was tha last time i did that >< | 01:34 |
| b-man16 | *the | 01:34 |
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| lbt | ah :) | 01:39 |
| lbt | it was rather impressive. | 01:39 |
| fireun | t-4 minutes | 01:40 |
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| kaie | I've made progress on my attempt to build an updated pidgin package (first time I try to build for maemo). "make" succeeded. | 01:46 |
| kaie | the "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" now fails with dh_installdirs: dpkg-architecture failed - see http://maemo.pastey.net/110265 | 01:46 |
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| till__ | you did that inside scratchbox? | 01:48 |
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| till__ | i'm trying to build libpurple 2.5.5 myself | 01:50 |
| kaie | till__, yes, inside scratchbox | 01:53 |
| kaie | my host is fedora 10, i386, outside the scratchbox I don't have debian build stuff | 01:53 |
| till__ | if you may send me your sourcecode i can try to compile it in my environment | 01:53 |
| sanchiii | where do i find the "public SSH keys" section in garage account maintenance page? | 01:54 |
| kaie | till__, are you trying to build pidgin, too? yes, I can upload my merged pidgin-2.5.5 tarball attempt | 01:54 |
| till__ | would be great | 01:54 |
| till__ | you have done all the hildon-stuff yet? | 01:55 |
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| kaie | till__, http://kuix.de/misc/maemo/pidgin/255/pidgin_2.5.5_kaie_test3.tar.gz | 02:01 |
| kaie | till__, which hildon-stuff ? | 02:01 |
| till__ | don't you have to replace gtk with hildon in order to get pidgin running on maemo? | 02:01 |
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| kaie | I followed http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/diablo/INSTALL.txt | 02:01 |
| kaie | I did some merging based on original 2.5.1, 2.5.5 and maemo 2.5.1 source archives | 02:02 |
| kaie | didn't try to understand the code | 02:02 |
| till__ | yeah i read your bug report :) | 02:03 |
| till__ | as far as i know you don't have gtk on the tablet | 02:03 |
| lcuk | not entirely replace | 02:05 |
| lcuk | gtk exists and native gtk apps run and work | 02:05 |
| lcuk | hildonization is just altering a few bits of that to be specifically tabletified | 02:05 |
| kaie | till__, I used the maemo 2.5.1 source archive as a base. I produced a patch that has the differences from upstream 2.5.1 to upstream 2.5.5. I applied that to the working 2.5.1 snapshot. In addition I had to copy over some new images | 02:05 |
| till__ | okay | 02:06 |
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| till__ | so hildon has the same commands as gtk | 02:06 |
| kaie | there were some new #ifdef in the patch which did not apply cleanly. they disables a few functions calls based on some gtk version number | 02:06 |
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| till__ | i will try to build it, just have to test something with libpurple before :) | 02:07 |
| kaie | I did not add those #ifdef s when merging | 02:07 |
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| kaie | till__, maybe you can simply extract that tarball, run the build command, and see if it succeeds on your system, or produces the same error | 02:08 |
| lcuk | till__, are you the owner of this bug report: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4183 | 02:08 |
| till__ | nope i'm not registered on maemo yet | 02:09 |
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| RST38h | kaie:there is one detail about pidgin | 02:24 |
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| RST38h | kaie: normally, pidgin depends on a 20MB .deb with icons, sounds, and other data | 02:24 |
| RST38h | kaie: this dependency has to be removed because otherwise you waste a lot of precious / space | 02:25 |
| till__ | replacing just lipurple did NOT work | 02:25 |
| till__ | :/ | 02:26 |
| RST38h | "Due to the nature of SCP-620's properties, subject is not permitted to be within 500m (1,640 ft) of any polyhedral die." | 02:26 |
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| FireFox16 | wb johnx :) | 02:50 |
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| till__ | kaie i had no luck until now | 03:09 |
| kaie | till__, what happens when you try to build? | 03:09 |
| till__ | a lot of dependencies | 03:09 |
| till__ | tried to tweak the build process | 03:09 |
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| ipndrmath | Question: I have a N810 with the newest OS/update. I've been trying to use the chat application to send text messages. This is my second N810 (manufacturing defect on the first) and it worked on the original. Now when I try to send an IM\Chat I get the message "No permission for this operation" and the messages don't send. Any ideas? | 05:28 |
| ipndrmath | oops, should be IM\Text | 05:28 |
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| timelE61i | ipndrmath? | 07:16 |
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| *** tang_ is now known as yan | 09:32 | |
| yan | anybody kindly tells me whereis microb-engine buglist? | 09:33 |
| yan | I saw bug info in microb-engine chagelog like :this NB#100612 Browser crash while surfing the web | 09:34 |
| yan | but i dont know where bugs are reported | 09:35 |
| yan | somebody knows the answer,please hlep | 09:36 |
| hhahlo | to me disabling flash components helped browsing a bit | 09:40 |
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| ShadowJK | probably this: https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=microb | 09:40 |
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| yan | ShadowJK:no,not there. max bugid there is 3996 | 09:49 |
| ShadowJK | Oh... I heard Nokia has their own internal bugtracker | 09:50 |
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| yan | internal?close to non nokia developer,it's so bad | 09:52 |
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| Myrtti | yan: you're free to use the maemo one to file your own | 09:55 |
| Myrtti | the internal is probably for those who have been found in pre-release stage or similar | 09:56 |
| Myrtti | s/who/which/ | 09:56 |
| infobot | Myrtti meant: the internal is probably for those which have been found in pre-release stage or similar | 09:56 |
| Myrtti | whee, a bot that's actually useful | 09:56 |
| yan | ok,thanks all .i get it | 09:57 |
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| L0cutus | re | 10:00 |
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| aquatix | good moaning | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | morning aquatix | 10:25 |
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| ShadowJK | yan: maybe the "alias int-XXXXX" on bugs.maemo refers to the internal numbers | 10:27 |
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| * Stskeeps sighs | 10:32 | |
| * Myrtti pats Stskeeps | 10:32 | |
| Myrtti | it'll be all right. | 10:32 |
| Myrtti | I promise. | 10:32 |
| Myrtti | Here, have some cake. | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, yeah, probably :) just bugged at my release image of mer 0.10 refusing to boot | 10:32 |
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| Myrtti | don't worry dear. | 10:34 |
| Myrtti | I broke the script I've been doing totally on Saturday | 10:34 |
| Myrtti | now it doesn't do any of the things it did last week | 10:35 |
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| aquatix | Myrtti: ah, gotta love when that happens | 10:44 |
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| Myrtti | I think this apparatus here is called "a vacuum cleaner" | 10:47 |
| Myrtti | I wonder if I can still operate it | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | i was astonished to find my dorm apartment came with vacuum cleaner, heh | 10:48 |
| Myrtti | I *hate* vacuuming | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | get a roomba? :P | 10:48 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:48 |
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| Myrtti | if I could be arsed to sweep the floors every week, I wouldn't need a vacuum cleaner | 10:49 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: my plan is to get a man who doesn't mind doing the vacuuming | 10:49 |
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| tank-man | get a robot to vacuum | 10:49 |
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| Myrtti | then I can just smack his bum and say "slave, vacuum". At this time it looks like he's intrested in home automation, so it just might be that he'll configure the system to use a $ROBOT | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder if i can convince my gf to a roomba | 10:50 |
| Myrtti | just as long as I don't have to strain myself with the whole idea of vacuuming | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | so far she's up for the pervasive computing-utilizing apartment | 10:50 |
| Myrtti | vacuuming itself isn't that bad, it's just utterly frustrating in a 34m² apartment with a lowsy non-industry grade apartment | 10:51 |
| Myrtti | a) the apartment is too small to actually need vacuuming b) vacuuming with a bad vacuum cleaner is bad | 10:52 |
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| timelE61i | Yan: you really don't want to see the internal bug tracker | 11:09 |
| timelE61i | I'm in a meeting w/ perhaps two dozen people where qa is describing how bad it is | 11:09 |
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| ethy__ | hi | 11:09 |
| timelE61i | eHlo | 11:09 |
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| andre__ | heh | 11:10 |
| timelE61i | aNdre: really | 11:10 |
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| ShadowJK | The contents or the tracker? :-) | 11:11 |
| andre__ | both can be fun, i can assure :-P | 11:11 |
| timelE61i | yan: if you file a bug in bugs.maemo, andre can share it w/ the internal one for you | 11:12 |
| andre__ | yupp | 11:12 |
| timelE61i | Shadow: we've totally botched the organization and behaviors | 11:12 |
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| timelE61i | not to mention "a bug's life" | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | someone really needs to come up with a self-aware bug tracking system | 11:13 |
| timelE61i | "you're stupid, your bug is stupid. INVALID" | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | then again | 11:14 |
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| Stskeeps | being bugtracker for any given project will lead the bugtracker AI to develop into skynet, bent on getting rid of humanity.. | 11:14 |
| ShadowJK | My favourite bug had changed since I last looked at it a few months ago, now there was a comment that you are busy running in circles :) | 11:14 |
| timelE61i | We are! | 11:14 |
| timelE61i | Big circles! | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | ah, accelerometer tests ;) | 11:15 |
| * timelE61i rotffl | 11:15 | |
| ShadowJK | :) | 11:15 |
| ShadowJK | mmm, what kind of accuracy and/or resolution do those things have anyway | 11:19 |
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| timelE61i | no clue | 11:20 |
| timelE61i | We don't use them :) | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: if it's the typical nokia ones, they're not bad | 11:20 |
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| Stskeeps | afaik | 11:20 |
| derf | As long as you're moving. | 11:21 |
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| * Stskeeps notes his beagle has fried his SD card. | 11:21 | |
| timelE61i | Bugs.maemo claims i've filed >150 bugs | 11:21 |
| * timelE61i works for nokia | 11:22 | |
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| ShadowJK | I'd want to try augment GPS data with it to make an analog-looking speedometer.. use acceleration data in between the gps updates | 11:24 |
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| derf | Well, GPS isn't terribly accurate when you aren't moving, either. | 11:26 |
| derf | Though at least its error is bounded. | 11:26 |
| timelE61i | a quick query shows i've filed 3x as many bugs externally as internally... | 11:26 |
| derf | But yeah, slap a Kalman filter on them and you'd do alright. | 11:27 |
| timelE61i | something's wrong w/ that query, but... | 11:27 |
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| florian | good morning | 11:30 |
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| thopiekar | morning | 11:33 |
| thopiekar | where is our debmaster? | 11:33 |
| thopiekar | there is a package (graphviz) on extras-devel which conflicts with libtool | 11:34 |
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| Stskeeps | heh, just as long as you don't upload a libtool package | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | that'd break quite a bit of things :) | 11:34 |
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| * Myrtti huggles her new Pocket Reference | 11:37 | |
| timelE61i | what does it reference? | 11:37 |
| Myrtti | sed/awk ♥ | 11:37 |
| Myrtti | *snif* | 11:37 |
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| Stskeeps | hm, iTT is hosed | 11:45 |
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| ElPollo | Anyone using the latest mCalendar? | 11:48 |
| lcuk | clutter question: if the entire scene has to be constructed before starting, what happens with infinite scrolling - when i move an object out of the screen and expose new areas i want to (as i do in liqbase) just extend and create new elements, am i reading the docs wrong or is this impossible | 11:49 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, where are we gonna discuss our internet tables and chairs :'( | 12:00 |
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| zap | lcuk: the objects that are clipped entirely out of the scrolling area are discarded; objects partially out of display area are clipped | 12:01 |
| zap | ah, you're talking about Clutter | 12:02 |
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| lcuk | zap - but i can currently scroll a calendar view +=however far i want - as required it creates new week "actors" and fills them from the database, you are not telling me i need to preload the entire calendar before coming on screen are you? | 12:03 |
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| zap | well, I'm not common with clutter... sorry for noise :) | 12:03 |
| lcuk | -database +datasource | 12:03 |
| * zap reads clutter docs | 12:03 | |
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| lcuk | heh zap, thats the stage im at, but i cant find anything that dynamically adds - it so far expects everything to exist - theres even warnings about it | 12:04 |
| zap | isn't ClutterChildMeta designed for tracking unloaded actors? | 12:05 |
| lcuk | its a gl "scene" and im assuming will be like a game level, where the whole block of level exists | 12:05 |
| lcuk | zap, its not unloading, its adding new ones | 12:05 |
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| lcuk | sometimes i can preprepare everything i have to do, but sometimes its impossible due to constraints | 12:06 |
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| zap | by the way, what platform you're developing for with clutter? | 12:06 |
| lcuk | murrayc, could you possibly clarify my issue when you have 5 minutes please :) | 12:06 |
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| qgil | Stskeeps: the funny thing is that it got hosed while I was writing a long reply - lucky me the browser kept it when getting back from the 500 error | 12:08 |
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| lcuk | zap - maemo 5 of course. im just reevaluating the thinking i started over christmas, i've found out the later version was released which has support for line drawing (albeit pango or tango or whatever the gobject stuff is) so i should be able to get sketches in, but the preloading everything before starting is worrying me | 12:08 |
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| zap | cool... do you have a dev board? | 12:08 |
| lcuk | lol qgil, you overloaded the server :P | 12:08 |
| lcuk | no zap | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: yeah, nothing angers me more than when i lose a big chunk of text in a form and then it refuses to submit | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: you should really get a beagleboard.. | 12:09 |
| lcuk | clutter is compilable directly on ubuntu and its in the alpha devkit | 12:09 |
| zap | is clutter designed only for 2D scenes? | 12:09 |
| lcuk | but a beagle has no touchscreen | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | true, and i don't suppose you have a hdmi + usb touchscreen | 12:09 |
| lcuk | essentially zap yeah | 12:09 |
| lcuk | ++cost | 12:09 |
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| lcuk | im hopeful one will drop out of the sky soon though :) | 12:10 |
| lcuk | zap, i should be able to do all the things liqbase did but also add rotation (for what its worth i do quite well without it :D) | 12:10 |
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| lcuk | so im hoping to write my stuff and on m5 at least use clutter to do my rendering | 12:11 |
| zap | whoa, even shader support | 12:11 |
| lcuk | yeah theres nice stuff, but i need to solve whether i can dynamically add new elements :) | 12:11 |
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| jaem_ | there we go... | 12:12 |
| lcuk | anyway, dayjob calls | 12:12 |
| * jaem_ forgot to stop his Quassel Core Server | 12:12 | |
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| jaem | regarding the Council elections, what are we actually for people for? | 12:13 |
| jaem | is it just general council membership, or positions? | 12:14 |
| Stskeeps | general council membership | 12:14 |
| jaem | okay - I missed the referendum, so I'm making sure I vote in this | 12:14 |
| * Stskeeps voted accordingly with his belief in those people pushing the maemo platform and encouraging the activation of the community beyond whining | 12:16 | |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:16 |
| jaem | indeed | 12:16 |
| lcuk | jaem, theres a problem, one of the questions on the referendum was "should we let jaem vote?" | 12:16 |
| jaem | lcuk: I'm sure there was ;) | 12:16 |
| lcuk | :D | 12:16 |
| jaem | by the way... /me is annoyed. I/he was going to switch nicks to Ffejery, to go with the Blag, but someone on Freenode got it before me :( | 12:17 |
| jaem | also, one of my friends pointed out that Ffejery is an extremely awkward word in print | 12:17 |
| jaem | "To confirm this vote, please continue to the next step. To modify your choice, hit the "Back" button in your browser." | 12:19 |
| jaem | finally, a web app that doesn't break when you hit the Back button! | 12:19 |
| jaem | is it really that hard? | 12:19 |
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| jaem | did you folks hear about the new "Star Wars"/SDI Program? | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | new? isn't it just the same old? | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:21 |
| jaem | no | 12:21 |
| jaem | this time, it's designed to shoot down mosquitos | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | hah | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | and it still can't hit? | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:22 |
| * Pavlov puts on his tin foil hat | 12:22 | |
| jaem | and the lead scientist worked with Edward Teller | 12:22 |
| jaem | Pavlov: that will only reflect the laser | 12:22 |
| ShadowJK | and this isn't the laser-based CIWS thing? | 12:22 |
| jaem | apparently it's able to distinguish male from female mosquitos | 12:22 |
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| jaem | although, as they pointed out, they'll probably just kill them all | 12:23 |
| jaem | CIWS? | 12:23 |
| ShadowJK | close in weapons system | 12:23 |
| jaem | the article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123680870885500701.html | 12:23 |
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| ShadowJK | like to shoot down incoming artillery and mortar shells | 12:23 |
| jaem | they're using mostly non-lethal targeting lasers now, with computer-enabled explosion sound effects | 12:23 |
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| jaem | but they have demo videos of mosquitos bursting into flame in midair | 12:23 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: best statement ever.. | 12:24 |
| jaem | it all sounds absurd, but I myself had that idea several years back, as did a friend | 12:24 |
| jaem | Stskeeps: :D | 12:24 |
| * ShadowJK wonders if the chinese are still selling highpower lasers on ebay | 12:24 | |
| jaem | ShadowJK: if you're in the US (or have another way of getting it across the border), Goldmine Electronics is selling surplus Erbium laser rods | 12:25 |
| jaem | for cheap! | 12:25 |
| * thopiekar is prepairing a "cheat of paper" for his next test.. :P | 12:26 | |
| thopiekar | cu | 12:26 |
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| ShadowJK | I was thinking of the overclocked laser pointer variety :) | 12:26 |
| ShadowJK | they pop balloons but that's pretty much it | 12:27 |
| jaem | ah. Well, the ones DX sells apparently are made so poorly that the "200mW" is mostly IR | 12:27 |
| rmt_ | Btw - what will prevent fremantle from running on N8*'s? | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | rmt_: lack of 3d acceleration, simple as that | 12:27 |
| jaem | rmt_: zombie hordes | 12:27 |
| jaem | darn - beat me to it | 12:27 |
| rmt_ | ;-) | 12:27 |
| lcuk | rmt_, the opengl interface might put a bit of a dampner on it | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | and after seeing the initial UI design, i don't blame them | 12:27 |
| jaem | lcuk: they had zombie games before OpenGL... | 12:28 |
| Pavlov | heh | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | we should implement Doom as the Hildon Desktop. | 12:28 |
| lcuk | jaem, liqbase exists on n810, i believe its been described as "liqbase, who the fuck needs opengl" | 12:28 |
| jaem | Stskeeps: I agree... I wish we had some recent feedback on that issue | 12:28 |
| * lcuk wonders who said that | 12:28 | |
| jaem | lcuk: who described it as that? You? | 12:28 |
| jaem | that said, it is quite awesome | 12:28 |
| ElPollo | Lol | 12:28 |
| jaem | I was very impressed | 12:28 |
| rmt_ | Okay.. only the 3d aspect. I imagine than it would then be possible to have software OpenGL & have a less demanding theme with clutter (I assume it's using clutter)? | 12:29 |
| lcuk | no jaem, it was a comment i accidentally removed on youtube from Stskeeps whilst trying to mod it up | 12:29 |
| timelE61i | lcuk: when do i get liqbase for my 770? | 12:29 |
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| jaem | timelE61i: slightly sooner than you get OpenGL? | 12:29 |
| jaem | hehe | 12:29 |
| lcuk | timelE61i, ill send you a small tiny simple xv test application, if you can get that working liqbase will follow | 12:29 |
| lcuk | brb | 12:30 |
| timelE61i | I have fremantle devices :) | 12:30 |
| jaem | timelE61i: I hate you :P | 12:30 |
| timelE61i | I didn't say they work ;) | 12:30 |
| rmt_ | timelE61i, What do you mean? You are Nokioid? | 12:31 |
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| Stskeeps | isn't it Nokian? :P | 12:31 |
| jaem | yes | 12:32 |
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| jaem | and timelE61i's normal hostname would give that impression | 12:32 |
| timelE61i | i think i said that a few hours ago, for the nth time | 12:32 |
| rmt_ | Native finnish speakers are Nokians, Swedish Nokioids.. :) | 12:32 |
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| timelE61i | and non natives are just stupid/crazy | 12:33 |
| timelE61i | ? | 12:33 |
| jaem | Nokrazies? | 12:33 |
| rmt_ | Non-alcoholics, I think is the term you're looking for. </stereotype> | 12:34 |
| timelE61i | it applies | 12:34 |
| * timelE61i doesn't drink | 12:34 | |
| jaem | you know, I've always wondered where the opening <rant> and similar tags are :P | 12:34 |
| timelE61i | jaem: auto opened at /join | 12:34 |
| timelE61i | It's like implicit tags in html | 12:35 |
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| rmt_ | So, you have insight into the release schedule & expected technology in the next device? Am I going to regret my decision to purchase the N810 (due to new release) in < 3 months? | 12:35 |
| * timelE61i shrugs | 12:36 | |
| b-man | InternetTabletTalk had an internal server error on my thread.. lol XD | 12:36 |
| timelE61i | if the n810 is cheap, i'd buy it | 12:36 |
| * rmt_ analyses timelE61i's shrug carefully. ;-) | 12:36 | |
| jaem | $220 is not bad at all | 12:36 |
| * timelE61i shrugs often | 12:36 | |
| rmt_ | €230's not too bad for europe, I think. | 12:36 |
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| jaem | but from the sounds of the hardware of the RX-51, I'm somewhat regretful | 12:37 |
| timelE61i | check the logs | 12:37 |
| jaem | not because the N810 is bad, but because my few quibbles look to be solved in the new tablet | 12:37 |
| jaem | oh well | 12:37 |
| lcuk | whats solved? | 12:38 |
| jaem | next few hundred available dollars will likely go either into a camera, beagleboard, or buying my friend's old desktop | 12:38 |
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| jaem | lcuk: mainly beefier proc, OpenGL, and a couple of minor things that I forget | 12:38 |
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| Pavlov | heh | 12:39 |
| jaem | Mer/Ubuntu will fix a few other annoyances, from the sounds of things | 12:39 |
| * b-man thinks that his project thread has gotten so popular that it has actually crashed ITT 0_0 | 12:39 | |
| jaem | but the N810 is quite nice, overall | 12:39 |
| lcuk | i could give you a beefier proc and opengl now, but without apps to run on them its futile isnt it | 12:39 |
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| jaem | lcuk: of course, but 400MHz is a little underpowered for some things, that's all | 12:40 |
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| timelE61i | personally atm, given the choice of an n810 or next, i'd rather the n810 :) | 12:40 |
| * lcuk doesnt think so | 12:40 | |
| jaem | but it's fine for most of what I do | 12:40 |
| lcuk | timelE61i, but what if the new one could run diablo without issue? | 12:40 |
| jaem | timelE61i: *raises an eyebrow and wonders what's behind that* | 12:40 |
| timelE61i | lCuk: i can't :( | 12:42 |
| rmt_ | Can you compile new kernels for the N810 without losing functionality? Are (any) binary blobs forward compatible? (ie. just firmware) | 12:42 |
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| sisto | internettablettalk.com seems to be down right now | 12:46 |
| b-man16 | yes indeed | 12:47 |
| * b-man16 might know whu :P | 12:47 | |
| b-man16 | *why | 12:47 |
| lcuk | b-man, could you open another chan, your head has expanded to fill this one :P | 12:48 |
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| b-man16 | lol | 12:48 |
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| jaem_N810 | does anyone know anything about firmware/SDKs for CSR chipsets? | 12:49 |
| jaem_N810 | The whole system sounds very closed | 12:50 |
| sisto | damn haxors | 12:50 |
| jaem_N810 | sisto: ? | 12:51 |
| sisto | stop messing with my internets | 12:51 |
| sisto | jaem_afk: internettablettalk.com is down | 12:51 |
| jaem_N810 | sisto: oh sorry... I ejected the Internets a minute ago | 12:51 |
| jaem_N810 | and the tray is jammed | 12:52 |
| jaem_N810 | oops | 12:52 |
| ShadowJK | just don't drop it | 12:52 |
| jaem_N810 | well, some of the bits fell onto the floor already | 12:52 |
| sisto | we'll send a support crew to fix the jam | 12:52 |
| jaem_N810 | but I don't think they were important | 12:52 |
| sisto | was it the porn? | 12:53 |
| b-man16 | lol | 12:53 |
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| jaem_N810 | I think so | 12:53 |
| jaem_N810 | probably for the best | 12:53 |
| sisto | we are doomed | 12:53 |
| ShadowJK | indeed | 12:53 |
| * jaem_N810 sweeps up the bits, and puts them in the bitbucket | 12:53 | |
| b-man16 | XD | 12:53 |
| * jaem_N810 whistles | 12:53 | |
| ShadowJK | no internet tech has ever taken off before a use for porn was discovered | 12:54 |
| lcuk | how do i shutdown ubuntu from a console window? | 12:54 |
| ShadowJK | a guess: shutdown -h now | 12:54 |
| jaem_N810 | ShadowJK: IRC? | 12:54 |
| b-man16 | yup | 12:54 |
| jaem_N810 | oh wait | 12:54 |
| jaem_N810 | :P | 12:54 |
| * b-man16 leaves for school | 12:54 | |
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| jaem_N810 | oh right... school | 12:54 |
| lcuk | thx shadow | 12:54 |
| jaem_N810 | that's in... 5 hours... or so | 12:55 |
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| ShadowJK | oh no, they're dropping like flies :( | 12:55 |
| * jaem_N810 recharges the laser | 12:55 | |
| ShadowJK | have you tried WD40 on that stuck drive | 12:55 |
| lcuk | not me! i was shutting my x41 down | 12:56 |
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| ElPollo | lcuk: normally, ubuntu also provides the command 'poweroff' | 12:56 |
| jaem_N810 | ShadowJK: well, WD50 didn't work, so I didn't bother | 12:56 |
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| jaem_N810 | maybe I'll try some un-duct-tape | 12:56 |
| lcuk | ElPollo, the other worked :) | 12:56 |
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| ShadowJK | I wish we had duct tape at work | 12:57 |
| jaem_N810 | speaking of, does anyone know if you can get half-width rolls of duct tape? the big ones don't fit in my cargo pockets well | 12:57 |
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| jaem_N810 | electrical tape fits fine, but its uses are limited | 12:57 |
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| lcuk | jaem_N810, the factory tried to cut duct tape down the middle but the universe threatened to implode so they stopped | 12:57 |
| jaem_N810 | was that a duct-tape mobius strip? | 12:58 |
| lcuk | question: does anyone actually use duct tape for repairing ducts? | 12:58 |
| jaem_N810 | I used to fix a duck | 12:58 |
| lcuk | we dont want to know about your animal antics | 12:58 |
| jaem_N810 | it's head had fallen off | 12:58 |
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| ShadowJK | I'd never have thought to use duct tape for repairing ducts... | 12:59 |
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| jaem_N810 | according to Wikipedia, it was "deemed ineffective" for that purpose | 13:00 |
| lcuk | shotguns and torches | 13:00 |
| jaem_N810 | and pitchforks | 13:00 |
| jaem_N810 | what are we rioting for? | 13:00 |
| ShadowJK | or against? | 13:00 |
| lcuk | serenity now! | 13:00 |
| lcuk | errr fremantle now! | 13:00 |
| jaem_N810 | I don't care - lynch mobs are fun | 13:00 |
| jaem_N810 | who's getting hanged? | 13:00 |
| lcuk | no1 | 13:01 |
| ShadowJK | this no1 must be a very mean person | 13:01 |
| lcuk | that reminds me, its nearly lynchtime, should i have a jacket potato again? | 13:01 |
| jaem_N810 | can it be someone in TI's IP department? | 13:01 |
| jaem_N810 | a good hanging always helps with licensing issues | 13:02 |
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| jaem_afk | from Wikipedia: "In a 2001 NASA manual for spaceflight operations aboard the International Space Station, duct tape is even called for in case of "acute psychosis" during a space mission; NASA procedures call for the use of duct tape to restrain the affected astronaut" | 13:03 |
| lcuk | :S | 13:03 |
| lcuk | bbl | 13:03 |
| Myrtti | mwhahah http://www.hs.fi/fingerpori/1135244246916 | 13:03 |
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| jaem_afk | Myrtti: XD | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | rmt_: yes, regarding binary blobs, there's stlc45xx these days | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | rmt_: but someone needs to step up and forward port some drivers | 13:06 |
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| Stskeeps | (there's a GSoC project on it) | 13:07 |
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| murrayc | lcuk: What "issue"? | 13:17 |
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| rmt_ | Stskeeps, woo, thanks. | 13:21 |
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| rmt_ | I'm not really a driver type, but if the itch is annoying enough, I make do. ;) | 13:22 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm rather gah-ish that noone bothered before, - i discovered it was fairly trivial to forward port umac.ko | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | and cx3110x.ko | 13:26 |
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| Jaffa | Hmm | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | which means if people just bothered to sit down and hack a bit at things instead of complaining of closed source wifi :) | 13:27 |
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| Stskeeps | 'lo VDVsx | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: just keeping track, you had a freerunner too / was interested in that area? | 13:30 |
| suihkulokki | Stskeeps: hehe, can I quote you :) | 13:31 |
| Stskeeps | suihkulokki: regarding the wifi thing? yes, sometimes i'm a bit disappointed noone even bothered to take the time to just sit down and play some simple tricks :P | 13:31 |
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| rmt_ | What's OS2008's kernel version? | 13:31 |
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| Stskeeps | 2.6.21-omap1 i think | 13:32 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, I'm interested, but don't know if I will have time for something, in the middle/end of this week I will talk to you :) | 13:32 |
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| Stskeeps | VDVsx: alright - just keeping track :) | 13:32 |
| VDVsx | I have some pending stuff in my life right now :) | 13:32 |
| jaem_afk | night, folks | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | i have a 0.10 release today and it's going craptaculary unwell :) | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | suihkulokki: one exception though - poky linux got it right, and realized you could just relink umac.ko :P | 13:34 |
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| RST38h | Lead roof thief eyeballed targets on Google Earth | 13:37 |
| RST38h | Heya Sts | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | 'lo RST38h | 13:37 |
| xnt | we have a problem, internettablettalk is down, I get a 500 error | 13:37 |
| RST38h | Heh, iTT server-errored | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | xnt: yeah, so it goes | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | "2nd Generation of 'Microsoft Surface' Coming in 2-3 Years" | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | .. 2-3 years? | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | jesus :P | 13:38 |
| RST38h | Is anybody using 1st generation? | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | good question | 13:38 |
| xnt | lol | 13:38 |
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| Meiz_n810 | Arora is the best browser for Maemo after Tear :P | 13:39 |
| Meiz_n810 | Is there a hope for Mer-port? | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | with QT coming? yeah | 13:40 |
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| Meiz_n810 | it has no problem with some forums that Tear is unable to handle... | 13:41 |
| Meiz_n810 | QtWebKit seems to be better than the GTK one | 13:41 |
| t_s_o | RST38h: iirc, there are a chain of hotels that use them, and also t-mobile or some other mobile operator in select stores... | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | think it was kinda used in The Day The Earth Stood Still too | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | .. moviewise | 13:44 |
| t_s_o | oh, and didnt nbc use it during the recent election? | 13:45 |
| VDVsx | I played a little bit with surface in a expo :P | 13:46 |
| t_s_o | zoiks, 12,5gb/s wireless?! | 13:47 |
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| Robot101 | are there plans to include Telepathy / Empathy in Mer? | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | if it builds, why not? :P | 13:48 |
| Robot101 | yeah, but on default images so it comes with IM functionality "batteries included" :) | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 13:48 |
| Robot101 | also, we'd be interested in any tweaks to Empathy to make it more mobile / touch friendly | 13:48 |
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| Robot101 | Moblin forked it and hacked at it incoherently for a while, and made Moblin Chat | 13:49 |
| RST38h | t_s_io: that makes two of them :) | 13:49 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, do you already looked at python-efl for mer ? | 13:49 |
| * rmt_ taps his foot impatiently as he wonders how long it takes for a DHL person to drive direct from DHL's Milan depot to his doorstep with his N810.. he also better be smiling when he gets here. | 13:49 | |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: we have e17 now so it might be easier | 13:49 |
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| Stskeeps | Robot101: well, i guess the goal is a 1.0 that is day to day usable and with as much OSS as fittable in the image :P | 13:49 |
| Robot101 | but I think that was found to be an embarrasment and removed from their servers :P | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | Robot101: but yes, it's obviously interesting | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | right now i'm considering to skip 0.10 release though, as everything possible has gone wrong so far for it :) | 13:50 |
| b0unc3 | hello, anyone know where to get the sources of the filemanager? | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | b0unc3: closed source, differentation | 13:50 |
| lcuk | b0unc3, knock on nokias door and ask them nicely | 13:50 |
| b0unc3 | :) | 13:51 |
| Stskeeps | or make a open source rewrite in python | 13:51 |
| Stskeeps | can't be that difficult. | 13:51 |
| lcuk | heh | 13:51 |
| t_s_o | i suggest hacking on gpe file manager instead... | 13:51 |
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| Stskeeps | or that | 13:51 |
| Robot101 | make sure you use something based on gvfs | 13:51 |
| Robot101 | diablo has some weird offspring of gnomevfs and dbus and a lot of crack | 13:52 |
| RST38h | Hmmm...Looks like RX-51 will have RGB components rearranged | 13:52 |
| Robot101 | best avoid :) | 13:52 |
| RST38h | Unless that SDK emulator is just screwed up of course | 13:52 |
| lcuk | RST38h, it is | 13:52 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I think it might be intentional | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i think people might simply not be running Xephyr with bpp 32.. | 13:52 |
| RST38h | yea, that is my guess as well - broken xephyr config | 13:53 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Dark theme, dark icons would look silly. I can easily imagine someone saying "let's make Gtk render icons inverse to make them look right" ;-) | 13:53 |
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| Jaffa | Then again, dark themes usually look good in one or two carefully selected screenshots, but I've yet to see them applied well to any existing Linux app (especially Gtk+) | 13:54 |
| zap | lcuk: I have groked clutter | 13:54 |
| zap | lcuk: have you found a solution for your problem yet? | 13:54 |
| lcuk | ive not looked, it was idle banter but ive had a nod that it should be possible, so ill carry on looking later | 13:55 |
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| xnt | Jaffa:Well, I think greyish black for the main ui, blue (to keep in with the wallpaper/logo) for a selected item, and white icons. | 13:55 |
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| zap | lcuk: as far as I understand you just have to create your own actor class, which contains a ClutterActor inside. When your actor gets out of the screen, you destroy the ClutterActor and remove it from scene; when it gets in you create it back | 13:56 |
| zap | actor motion is under your control anyway | 13:57 |
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| lcuk | zap, good i think, i would hate to use it for a game and have to precreate all the bullets i might need for the lifetime of the entire game ;) | 13:59 |
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| zap | that would be the case if you would use only the classes provided by Clutter, but for any more or less complex app you'll have your own class hierarchy anyway, Clutter would be used just for display | 13:59 |
| lcuk | but ill do some digging and try spawning new stuff until the cows come home | 13:59 |
| rmt_ | http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/15/ubuntu-9-04-ported-to-nokias-n8x0-internet-tablets/ ;-) | 14:00 |
| lcuk | ,, | 14:00 |
| lcuk | mmm even | 14:00 |
| Stskeeps | yes, we saw | 14:00 |
| rmt_ | .. so they have WiFi working fine too, then.. | 14:01 |
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| Stskeeps | b-man's ubuntu is basically mer without the hildon and gtk pieces | 14:01 |
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| lcuk | zap, ill have to look properly, something about that doesnt sound quite right - at the moment my head is telling me its like the difference between (i think) retained mode and ??direct mode directx/opengl stuff | 14:02 |
| Stskeeps | from a technical point of view it's a dead-end project, it's going to get to a point where people demand proper power saving and traditional desktop/laptop systems fails at that, hence the mer project | 14:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | The dialog button furor is funny. | 14:03 |
| zap | well, the ultimate anwer would be from clutter devs, if there's a channel for it | 14:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some people are just too set in their ways. | 14:03 |
| lcuk | yeah zap there is, but i need to formulate my questions first | 14:03 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: it 500ed iTT? :P | 14:03 |
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| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, do one thing: in the proper device documentation and in walkthroughs, describe how to cancel a dialog | 14:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | The UI bitching and moaning is interesting coming from people who haven't held a proper device with the full UI. | 14:04 |
| lcuk | at present it is "click the cancel button if its not right" | 14:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'm inclined to give the people with the full UI and proper devices at least some small benefit of the doubt. | 14:04 |
| lcuk | tell me properly how its done in REAL documentation | 14:04 |
| lcuk | or how you explain to your mum on the phone | 14:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean, basically it's the exact same method Canola uses | 14:05 |
| lcuk | lack of a distinct cancel option is a problem. and especially so when there is a large blank area sitting there | 14:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | and nobody really seems to have a problem with that. | 14:05 |
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| lcuk | no, not basically - document how to do it | 14:05 |
| lcuk | this is a consumer device | 14:06 |
| zap | I like clutter, its small, nice and powerful | 14:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, no, lack of a distinct cancel button is a problem to people who are set in their ways. | 14:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | You expect a Cancel button because you've been using computers too long. | 14:06 |
| alterego | Hahah | 14:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | That doesn't necessarily mean having one is better or worse. | 14:06 |
| alterego | Or not long enough ;) | 14:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, the documentation will come when the SDK is actually stable, not before. | 14:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it's not _my_ job to document it, so don't bitch at me. :) | 14:07 |
| lcuk | but if you dont think about docentation now you get there and every singe time you are documenting the process people WILL get it wrong and explain it in different ways and fuck up | 14:07 |
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| lcuk | "click on the text thats not the dialog" | 14:07 |
| alterego | Is there a release date for the new device yet? | 14:07 |
| alterego | Presumably Q4 this year? | 14:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, why are you assuming Nokia isn't thinking about documentation? | 14:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, waaaay earlier. | 14:08 |
| alterego | Really? | 14:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd say July at the outside. | 14:08 |
| Pavlov | lol | 14:08 |
| alterego | Nice. | 14:08 |
| alterego | But then, you know what Nokia releases are like ;) | 14:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | I also swore that those leaked N810 shots were a cellular E- or N- series device up until the day it was announced. ;) | 14:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | But, if you consider that we're getting a beta SDK somewhere between this month and May | 14:10 |
| alterego | Yeah, | 14:10 |
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| cmug | what new device | 14:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ | 14:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~RX-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ | 14:12 |
| infobot | ...but rx-51 is already something else... | 14:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~rx-51 | 14:12 |
| infobot | hmm... rx-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html | 14:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Guess I already set that. . . . | 14:12 |
| timelE61i | hEh | 14:13 |
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| cmug | ah that one | 14:13 |
| qgil | lcuk: how stubborn you are with this Cancel button | 14:13 |
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| qgil | as sid somewhere, I hadn't even realized there were not cancel buttons anymore | 14:14 |
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| qgil | until reading ITt | 14:14 |
| qgil | I was already clicking outside of the dialogs to get rid of them | 14:14 |
| qgil | without reading any documentation, nor getting a UI designer sitting next to me | 14:14 |
| timelE61i | heh | 14:14 |
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| cmug | where is this rx-51 name gotten from | 14:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | cmug, kernels. | 14:15 |
| cmug | ok | 14:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | cmug, it's the other model number, RX-34, RX-44, RX-48, etc. | 14:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | There might also be an RX-71, but that one's like Fight Club. ;) | 14:16 |
| cmug | ok | 14:16 |
| timelE61i | They come from random number generators :) | 14:16 |
| alterego | Heh | 14:17 |
| qgil | it's a galaxy that was discovered right before the meeting took place ;) | 14:17 |
| cmug | I'm more inclined to use Nokia inhouse project names | 14:17 |
| timelE61i | Sometimes random letter generators (770, *n*800) | 14:17 |
| RST38h | RX-71 is the Maemo-based smartphone! | 14:18 |
| * RST38h hides quickly | 14:18 | |
| timelE61i | Cmug: the rx-51 cames from nokia... | 14:18 |
| timelE61i | s/cames/came/ | 14:18 |
| infobot | timelE61i meant: Cmug: the rx-51 came from nokia... | 14:18 |
| cmug | timelE61i, ok | 14:18 |
| * timelE61i sighs | 14:18 | |
| cmug | I can't discuss this topic further ;-) | 14:19 |
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| timelE61i | it might not exist, of course, but that's a different problem | 14:19 |
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| lcuk | qgil, i am a pessamistic coder, i anticapte things going wrong and clicking the wrong things and i talk to people every day who go to the wrong places and cancelling is a very specific thing that you do not want to get wrong | 14:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, yeah, but now the cancel button is 10 times bigger. | 14:27 |
| alterego | I remember reading about a study that people blindly press cancel or ok and have to go through the process all over again. I think the study suggested random placement of the accept/decline buttons. | 14:27 |
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| lcuk | 10 times bigger but 10 times harder to explain | 14:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, so you seem to think. | 14:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | But Nokia's point of view seems to be backed up by usability tests with real users. | 14:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | You think that just because you're used to seeing cancel buttons. | 14:28 |
| lcuk | gan you have never supported anyone on computer systems over the phone, you cannot simply tell people to click outside the box to cancel it | 14:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | But not everybody has been trained to a certain thing. | 14:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, what do you know about who and what I've supported? | 14:29 |
| RST38h | Ok, all, I have got a suggestion | 14:29 |
| lcuk | i talk to customers every day who are not computer users and i would dread to have to tell them that | 14:29 |
| RST38h | Cancel action by turning the device over. | 14:29 |
| alterego | Heh | 14:29 |
| RST38h | =) | 14:29 |
| alterego | :) | 14:29 |
| alterego | I like that | 14:29 |
| alterego | Or a quick shake | 14:29 |
| alterego | Like you do when you get mad. | 14:29 |
| lcuk | hehehe | 14:29 |
| * alterego shakes device "NO I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT!" | 14:29 | |
| * Jaffa doesn't really buy the "you just expect one as you've been using computers too long" argument. That may have been applicable 15 years ago, but everyone who uses a computer has seen dialogues with "Cancel" and knows that it means. | 14:29 | |
| cmug | To cancel remove battery | 14:30 |
| lcuk | remove all the buttons and have a nod to accept and a shake to decline | 14:30 |
| alterego | Heh | 14:30 |
| Jaffa | Now, there may be other arguments (and the "it's ok in usability tests" is a good one[1]) which do support the removal of the cancel button | 14:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Either way, none of US have used the device or the full UI. | 14:30 |
| Jaffa | [1] Assuming the users actually encountered a circumstance in which they wanted to cancel a dialogue during the exercises | 14:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | So we're hardly qualified to make sweeping arguments about its usability. | 14:30 |
| RST38h | Sorry, missed the previous discussion, but if there is no cancel button, how do you exit things? | 14:30 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Press outside the dialogue in the shaded area. | 14:31 |
| RST38h | Bad, BAD idea. | 14:31 |
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| johnx | doesn't translate well to existing apps at least (IME) | 14:31 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I think that's crok too, TBH. It's a small mitigation but the "Nokia knows best" argument doesn't go very far. | 14:31 |
| RST38h | Whoever came up with it should really be made to work on something else | 14:31 |
| * GeneralAntilles shrugs. | 14:31 | |
| RST38h | DBus backend or something. Something harmless. | 14:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's little point is quibbling over it until we can try it for ourselves. | 14:32 |
| Jaffa | Other edge cases: what if the dialogue's big, and makes the cancel target area a thin number of pixels at the top | 14:32 |
| RST38h | General: The idea is simple enough to convey a thought experiment | 14:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | What applies to the desktop metaphor doesn't necessarily apply to a mobile device, anyway. | 14:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Users don't necessarily expect the same thing when you've changed formfactors that much. | 14:33 |
| RST38h | General: Not necessarily to wait for the final device, you can start puking right now | 14:33 |
| lcuk | i dont mind clicking off being another optional way to close it, but the biggest kicker is the blank inactive area where the cancel is expected. | 14:33 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, when I try to make a zenity dialog with "yes" and "no" and it *eats* my no button I become displeased :) | 14:33 |
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| RST38h | General: Desktop or tablet, you perceive interface with your eyes and my eyes are asking me "where is the cancel button?" | 14:34 |
| Jaffa | The fact that there's a new ConfirmationNote element to give the old behaviour is a little odd; given that the reason for having to do things like HildonWindow are to maintain proximity to upstream Gtk | 14:34 |
| ElPollo | *mumbles quite unhelpful* I always press escape... | 14:35 |
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| * GeneralAntilles really isn't up for yet another stupid useless argument in #maemo this morning. | 14:35 | |
| RST38h | General: Wait until it is released then | 14:35 |
| derf | Wait, there's another reason to come to this channel? | 14:35 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, we could just PM you if you want :D | 14:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, exactly what I'm trying to encourage. | 14:36 |
| RST38h | General: Will be a perfect shitstorm then | 14:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, expect retribution in kind. | 14:36 |
| RST38h | General: I do consider this a matter of personal preference, some people like to complain in advance :) | 14:36 |
| RST38h | Either way, absence of cancel button will cause a shitstorm, either now or later, doesn't matter really | 14:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | derf, occasionally productive things happen, but we seem to be trending towards the stupid useless bullshit lately. | 14:38 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, i consider this to be important part of the alpha discussions. if our impressions and experience were not to be considered then there wouldnt have been a public test | 14:40 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I doubt anything we say here will affect Nokia's decision process in any way | 14:40 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Not after what happened with Modest and browserd | 14:41 |
| lcuk | wouldnt know, dont recall - i can use the tablet without encountering either ;) | 14:42 |
| lcuk | but dialogs are global | 14:42 |
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| timelE61i | lcuk: oh, i'm sure the cancel/dismis behavior will be bad. In fact, i've already hit that internally | 14:47 |
| Jaffa | lcuk++ | 14:48 |
| Jaffa | Part of the point of an alpha is to garner feedback and discover bugs. | 14:48 |
| Jaffa | Retreating back behind "UI Specification" isn't very helpful to having a proper dialogue on the issue. | 14:48 |
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| timelE61i | rSt: please don't get me started on dbus | 14:52 |
| qgil | Jaffa: nobody is retreating behind UI spec, you have ragnar and myself trying to explain | 14:53 |
| qgil | why the decisions are made this way | 14:53 |
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| timelE61i | ragnar? | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | on the other hand, it's fun to see that "cancel" is the only topic discussed, - people must be satisfied with the alpha otherwise :) | 14:54 |
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| lcuk | +1 | 14:55 |
| * johnx gets back to advising on what color to pain the barn :) | 14:55 | |
| lcuk | i am very pleased with the rest now i have seen it at speed | 14:55 |
| * lcuk said as much on itt :) | 14:56 | |
| * mgedmin sighs | 14:56 | |
| * lcuk wants to discuss internet furniture | 14:56 | |
| Jaffa | qgil: Sorry, I misread Eero's comment. | 14:57 |
| lcuk | hello mgedmin, to change the topic, i notice you are in a different country | 14:57 |
| lcuk | holiday or relocation? | 14:57 |
| lcuk | or just random ip shifting | 14:57 |
| mgedmin | on-site consulting work | 14:57 |
| mgedmin | Sweden is nice | 14:57 |
| * RST38h remembers being routine given .se address by Tele2 | 14:57 | |
| RST38h | s/routinely | 14:58 |
| lcuk | cool | 14:58 |
| lcuk | are you there for long or just a few days | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | just until the end of the week now | 14:58 |
| * mgedmin has been here since the beginning of February | 14:59 | |
| lcuk | lol | 14:59 |
| lcuk | it took us a while to notice! | 14:59 |
| RST38h | all right, ttg | 15:00 |
| lcuk | same here, jacket potato is gettin cold | 15:00 |
| * mgedmin wonders if lcuk is on facebook | 15:01 | |
| lcuk | hahahahahahahahahahaha no | 15:02 |
| qgil | timelE61i: ragnar = Roope Rainisto in ITt | 15:02 |
| * lcuk leaves facebook to the other members of the family | 15:02 | |
| qgil | timelE61i: and I have no doubt you can find people with issues with the Cancel in our premises since there are also geeks as geeks as the ones that complain ;) | 15:03 |
| qgil | and my bet is that almost nobody will keep complaining 24h after getting their device | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | hehe.. geeks aren't typically happy about change :) | 15:03 |
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| lcuk | "are you sure you want to send your credit card details to all contacts" "yes" :P | 15:03 |
| qgil | lcuk: you seem to be really concerned about customer care. What about "Press the top of the screen" | 15:04 |
| lcuk | but ill stop now | 15:04 |
| qgil | since the UI is translucent you can still see it there | 15:04 |
| lcuk | it does what it says on the tin | 15:04 |
| dneary | hi | 15:04 |
| qgil | so you press it to go back to it | 15:04 |
| dneary | anyone still having trouble voting? | 15:05 |
| dneary | Or were the 3 mails I got this morning the only ones so far? | 15:05 |
| lcuk | qgil, its the explanation thats hard. when a person is asked a question if it is ambiguous how to respond it leads to confusion | 15:05 |
| qgil | dneary: there was someone in ITt but now you can't access the forum | 15:05 |
| dneary | qgil: I'm not allowed? | 15:05 |
| qgil | lcuk: "press the top of the screen", what is ambiguous in that | 15:06 |
| qgil | dneary: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/ | 15:06 |
| qgil | lcuk: assuming they ask such a question, of course | 15:07 |
| qgil | lcuk: the workflow goes like this: | 15:07 |
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| qgil | lcuk: User is in Screen A performing some actionç | 15:07 |
| qgil | lcuk: dialog appears in front while Screen A is seen in the background, a bit grayed and blurred | 15:08 |
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| qgil | lcuk: you don't want that dialog, you press the gray blurred part of the screen | 15:08 |
| qgil | lcuk: it gets bright and focused as it was before the dialog | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | true, that does make sense | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | if task switching and such follows same pattern | 15:09 |
| qgil | Stskeeps: same pattern | 15:09 |
| lcuk | or, "user is asked a question, they can respond "yes" or "no". i 100% agree that clicking the grey blurred bit can also act as No, just the same way clicking cancel acts as No, and usually clicking the "X" acts as No. but No is usually a distinct action that you can directly tell a user to click | 15:10 |
| timelE61i | qgil: that depends how many purchased items they lose | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | i am wondering a bit about the constant gray vs non-gray in the menu usage (seen on screen cast), but i'm assuming it might make more sense when we get to see the actual UI implementation + design :) | 15:10 |
| qgil | lcuk: you can get Yes/No dialogs if you wish | 15:10 |
| timelE61i | qgil: my problem is when i lose lots of work setting something u | 15:11 |
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| qgil | timelE61i: well, I also have gone mad after pressing "OK" to something I actually wanted to press Cancel or the other way round. Shit happens. | 15:12 |
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| timelE61i | More often here :) | 15:12 |
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| Stskeeps | lo qwerty12 | 15:13 |
| qwerty12 | hey Stskeeps | 15:13 |
| keesj | neiher pressing OK or cancel ever made me feel good so what's the point | 15:14 |
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| timelE61i | qgil/et al, fwiw, the cancel behavior is not the biggest problem | 15:14 |
| timelE61i | Overall, qgil is right, it won't matter much | 15:14 |
| Stskeeps | keesj: how are you involved with openmoko btw? (out of curiousity) | 15:15 |
| johnx | the only thing that worries me is how it will detect that the button is supposed to be "cancel" vs "no" | 15:15 |
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| timelE61i | is_maemo_5() | 15:16 |
| keesj | Stskeeps: nothing special , I just stolen a openmoko phone from a colleage | 15:17 |
| Stskeeps | keesj: hehe, okay | 15:17 |
| Stskeeps | keesj: we'll probably make a mini-port of mer/hildon ui to it, hence my asking | 15:17 |
| keesj | it uses the same hardware (s3c24xx) hardware that can be found in our hardware | 15:18 |
| Stskeeps | to see what can be done with it | 15:18 |
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| lcuk | damn i was writing something | 15:18 |
| lcuk | ahhh well :) cyas later | 15:19 |
| keesj | Stskeeps: I "only" have a Neo 1973 phone | 15:19 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 15:19 |
| * Stskeeps checks specs | 15:19 | |
| keesj | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 | 15:19 |
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| Stskeeps | hm, still armv4t though? | 15:21 |
| keesj | with thumb | 15:21 |
| Stskeeps | good | 15:21 |
| alterego | Anyone have a 5800? How do they compare to the N95? | 15:21 |
| glass | i got one | 15:22 |
| glass | alterego: it's ok, form factor is different to n95 of course.. the screen is much nicer | 15:22 |
| * alterego looks at specs | 15:22 | |
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| glass | alterego: i like the keylock slider button(it has a spring so it's more of a bunch button slider if you know what i mean) | 15:23 |
| alterego | Not sure I like onscreen kbds .. | 15:24 |
| glass | landscaped fullscreen it's like the maemo fullscreen thumb kb | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, is thumb vkb themable btw? | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | as in, if i wanted to move around buttons.. | 15:25 |
| alterego | Yes, but it's not "easy". | 15:25 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, Maemo or 5800's Symbian? | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | Maemo | 15:26 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, http://tinyurl.com/clty38 | 15:26 |
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| Stskeeps | oh that's hot. | 15:28 |
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| alterego | Think I prefer the N95 | 15:28 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: ukeyboard is just layouts, right | 15:29 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, ja | 15:29 |
| qwerty12 | in "def" files | 15:29 |
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| qwerty12 | It has a creator that can run on the device but it's more like an text editor imho | 15:29 |
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| * Myrtti holds her breath | 15:30 | |
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| * GeneralAntilles isn't sure if that's a drive clicking or liquid leaking sound coming from inside his computer. | 15:36 | |
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| Stskeeps | either one isn't good? | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | maybe it's a slimy floppy disk slot. | 15:38 |
| lcuk | :S gan not good i gather its liquid coooled. you could check by turning machine off, disconnecting drives and powering up again | 15:38 |
| lcuk | (im betting if its leakage it will only occur whilst being pumped | 15:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, or I could just take the cover off the radiator. | 15:38 |
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| keesj | Stskeeps: a hardware keyboard is what I miss on the Neo | 15:39 |
| lcuk | lol gan, that as well, hopefully you wont have much condensation to intefere and confuse the issue | 15:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, it doesn't get below the dew point. :) | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | keesj: mm, even front buttons would help i guess | 15:40 |
| lcuk | you just ruled out one of the possible reasons for a dripping sound then :P | 15:41 |
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| lcuk | gan, is it a home done cooling system, or a fully closed factory system? | 15:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, G5. . . . | 15:42 |
| lcuk | cool, are you sure the leaking sound isnt you drooling? | 15:42 |
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| lcuk | which model is it gan | 15:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2x2.5GHz | 15:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Late-2004 | 15:44 |
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| * Myrtti sings to Queen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNBWf54RvsI | 15:47 | |
| lcuk | gan, impressive muchly. i always had a soft spot for them, they looked the business | 15:49 |
| timelE61i | speaking of n95... Does mer run on it yet? | 15:49 |
| lcuk | Myrtti, im unhappy with youtube for muting certain songs | 15:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timelE61i, is there even any sort of non-Symbian loader yet? | 15:50 |
| Myrtti | lcuk: sucks to be in UK for once? | 15:50 |
| lcuk | for once? :P :D | 15:50 |
| glass | GeneralAntilles: haven't heard of any | 15:50 |
| Myrtti | oh my. T-9h 57minutes for HUGGLES! | 15:51 |
| Stskeeps | timelE61i: if i get a bootloader i can access, maybe ;) | 15:52 |
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| timelE61i | aww, just reverse engineer it :) | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, i'm not well wandered in ARM assembly :) | 15:57 |
| Myrtti | I CAN SEE THE TRAIN, MOMMY! | 15:58 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Is 0.10 totally scrapped, then? | 16:00 |
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| VDVsx | timelE61i, n95 runs windows 3.1 and 95 :P | 16:06 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa, needs some fixes, artwork, etc | 16:16 |
| X-Fade | Afternoon. | 16:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey, X-Fade. | 16:17 |
| Stskeeps | would like to polish a little more so, current state isn't fit for release | 16:17 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Removed sponsored by Nokia from the footer. | 16:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, did you talk to Quim about it? My impression was that it could go (and maybe they didn't want it there), but, honestly, I kind of like it. | 16:21 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Tero told me I could/should remove it. | 16:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think I'll play with a better Creative Commons picture today. | 16:22 |
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| Myrtti | but the question is, will it blend? | 16:22 |
| Myrtti | erm. | 16:22 |
| Myrtti | :P | 16:22 |
| X-Fade | It actually created some space as it was overlapping the powered by part on the tablet. | 16:22 |
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| X-Fade | @Nemein office btw ;) | 16:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Myrtti, if you print it out and stick it in a blender, probably. | 16:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, make them do better reporting. :P | 16:23 |
| Myrtti | X-Fade: it is a debian box that we're working with, riiiight? | 16:23 |
| Myrtti | plz say it is | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | Myrtti: Does that matter? | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | (it is) | 16:23 |
| Myrtti | only on the function that checks if you have git :-P | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | You're not going to ask me to run that script on the server, are you? | 16:24 |
| roope | http://i.gizmodo.com/5170542/shots-leak-of-lenovo-pocket-yoga-netbook-looks-like-it-actually-fits-in-a-pocket | 16:24 |
| Myrtti | I'm not sure who's going to do the asking ;-P | 16:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | roope, I'm going to say $1700 USD | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | Because that sounds like a no-no ;) | 16:24 |
| roope | yeah, it sure looks cheap. :D | 16:24 |
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| roope | love the faux-wood detailing. | 16:25 |
| Myrtti | X-Fade: what, you're suspecting my skills? *snif* | 16:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | This one just screams "Mug me" http://i.gizmodo.com/photogallery/lenovopocketyoga/1007576572 | 16:25 |
| X-Fade | Myrtti: I was hoping your script could run remotely? Does it post over http? | 16:25 |
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| * rzr_ announces : http://digg.com/linux_unix/Watch_nitdroid_emulator_emulated_nokia_tablet_runs_android | 16:34 | |
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| Meizirkki | itT doesn't like me :P | 16:44 |
| Meizirkki | Fatal error: Call to undefined function mysqli_init() in /home/tabtalk/public_html/forums/includes/class_core.php on line 1128 | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it's broken today | 16:44 |
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| Stskeeps | rzr: neat video | 16:45 |
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| Stskeeps | 'lo zenvoid | 16:49 |
| zenvoid | hello Stskeeps | 16:50 |
| zenvoid | ... and hello methril ;-) | 16:50 |
| rzr_ | back | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: funny effect on theme, marquee bg - it shows correctly when redrawn O_o | 16:51 |
| thopiekar | arrrggg!! where is "jeremiad".. | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | probably enjoying the good weather | 16:52 |
| thopiekar | the weather here is horrible.. just raining or cloudy.. | 16:54 |
| zenvoid | Stskeeps: I've been away during this weekend, any improvement to the new theme? | 16:54 |
| methril|work | hello zenvoid | 16:54 |
| methril|work | and others | 16:54 |
| thopiekar | hi methril|work :) | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: no sadly, wazd never got back with artwork (yet), and 0.10 pretty much blew up big time so i'm not releasing it currently | 16:54 |
| thopiekar | methril|work: stressful work? | 16:55 |
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| methril|work | Stskeeps i've one friend working in some Freerunner and Mer, could you give me more information, please? | 16:55 |
| Stskeeps | methril|work: basically one of the plans for the 0.11 and 0.12 sprint is to rebuild the mer packages (hildon ui + desktop) on top of debian-armel | 16:56 |
| zenvoid | I would want to test the the new UI, but got blocked with the proprietary library dependency | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | methril|work: and goshawk has been working on qemu stuff to get things going (he's from a eu distributor i believe) | 16:56 |
| goshawk | :) | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | and i have set up the builder so we can start building the packages | 16:57 |
| goshawk | yep | 16:57 |
| thopiekar | methril|work: tell me something about your company, please. | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | but let's move to #mer as it is not directly related to maemo and internet tablets | 16:57 |
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| methril|work | my company? i'm a worker, not an owner | 16:57 |
| methril|work | why? | 16:58 |
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| methril|work | ok | 16:58 |
| goshawk | thopiekar: was the question for me? | 16:58 |
| zenvoid | Stskeeps: is there #mer channel? | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: yeah | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | it mixes a bit where we talk :) | 16:59 |
| thopiekar | I'm searching for a work experiance in the summer holidays this year.. | 16:59 |
| zenvoid | ahh, ok, so it #mer supposed to be the official channel for Mer? :P | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: sortof | 16:59 |
| zenvoid | ok, going there... | 16:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, I'm failing absolutely at getting a good CC logo. | 16:59 |
| thopiekar | goshawk, methril|work : ? | 17:00 |
| goshawk | thopiekar: nevermind :) | 17:01 |
| methril|work | thopiekar> methril|work: tell me something about your company, please. | 17:01 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Hmm, not good. | 17:04 |
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| thopiekar | goshawk, methril|work: could you please give me some infos, please.. | 17:06 |
| goshawk | thopiekar: about what? | 17:06 |
| thopiekar | your company :P | 17:06 |
| sjgadsby | CC logo? | 17:06 |
| goshawk | ah ok | 17:06 |
| goshawk | do you want a private chat? | 17:06 |
| thopiekar | it'S your choise :) | 17:07 |
| goshawk | yep, i think it's better, since i don't wanna be a spammer :P | 17:07 |
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| thopiekar | k | 17:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, how about "<CC BY logo/> Except where noted." ? | 17:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | +otherwise | 17:10 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: I'm not sure if that is clear enough? | 17:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, need to get us some of that usability testing that Nokia has. ;) | 17:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe we could just make the font small enough to fit on two lines? ;) | 17:18 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Current text should fit now anyway ;) | 17:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, but that logo in the middle is just nasty. | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | hm, how stable is SDK+ these days? | 17:21 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Maybe we need to think of a way to align the logo to the right. | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | I say we find wazd and make him make it purty. ;) | 17:23 |
| X-Fade | And think of an actual text that makes sense to have the logo at the end ;) | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | "We're using this thing: <logo/>" | 17:23 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: did you see my suggestion last week or whenever? | 17:24 |
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| Stskeeps | X-Fade: what was the name of the software autobuilder uses to build packages? | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | like, build within sb | 17:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I guess Creative Commons is a little finicky about trademark usage. | 17:27 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, iirc, http://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/HOWTO.html#id1 | 17:28 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: sbdmock | 17:28 |
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| Stskeeps | ah, sbdmock | 17:28 |
| X-Fade | http://www.bifh.org/wiki/sbdmock | 17:29 |
| X-Fade | It is open source | 17:29 |
| * Stskeeps can't connect, lovely | 17:29 | |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: And we use BuildMe to fetch packages from the queue and dispatch them to the builders. | 17:30 |
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| Stskeeps | iTT is up again | 17:50 |
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| * thopiekar thought that rebuilding graphviz would be eady but he is needing now graphviz<ghostscript<glut<freeglut<mesa<libdrm-dev & x11proto-gl-dev & libxxf86vm-dev... -.-' | 17:57 | |
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| lbt | thopiekar: try building ddd - it's similar (but not as bad) | 18:02 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: I can't find it in the logs, but I think my suggestion was: a) drop the Nokia logo; b) move the CC logo in its place to the far right; c) Have text to the left saying "Content under CC-xxx-yyyy\nUnless otherwise marked." (right-aligned, to the left of the logo) | 18:09 |
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| thopiekar | ddd? for what lbt? | 18:09 |
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| lbt | n800 | 18:10 |
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| RST38h | ddd requires motif | 18:16 |
| RST38h | and extensive mouse navigation using both buttons | 18:17 |
| lbt | I wanted to export DISPLAY | 18:17 |
| lbt | run on tablet - debug on PC | 18:17 |
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| RST38h | ah | 18:22 |
| RST38h | it's twue it's twue: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/16/scientology_xenu_confirmation/ | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | lol | 18:22 |
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| thopiekar | hi greentux :) | 18:44 |
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| thopiekar | greentux: über netzanbieter online? | 18:44 |
| udovdh | hello | 18:45 |
| thopiekar | hi | 18:45 |
| udovdh | anybody here with a working scratchbox setup? | 18:45 |
| udovdh | please build gypsy with the patch from http://bugzilla.o-hand.com/show_bug.cgi?id=729 | 18:45 |
| udovdh | for n810 | 18:45 |
| thopiekar | hmm | 18:45 |
| thopiekar | but if I would patch that it wouldn't work for n800' s right? | 18:46 |
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| udovdh | depends on the gps | 18:47 |
| udovdh | the patch adds a routine that turns on the n810 gps | 18:48 |
| udovdh | I am not so familiar with n800 | 18:48 |
| udovdh | it uses libgpsbt (I found out) | 18:48 |
| udovdh | so uses `standard` routines for doing so | 18:48 |
| thopiekar | so if I would make that package for you (n810) it should work on N800, too... If you are sure let me know... | 18:49 |
| * thopiekar is a N800 user :P | 18:49 | |
| greentux | hi thopiekar | 18:50 |
| greentux | thopiekar: über welchen netzanbieter? | 18:50 |
| udovdh | thopiekar, if the n800 has gps | 18:53 |
| udovdh | which cna be turned on via libgpsbt (as I found on the web) | 18:53 |
| udovdh | then yes | 18:54 |
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| udovdh | http://beans.seartipy.com/2007/10/19/n800-vs-n810-or-who-should-consider-buying-nokia-n810/ | 18:55 |
| udovdh | so no gps in n800? | 18:55 |
| Jaffa | No internal GPS, no | 18:56 |
| udovdh | so it has libgpsbt to use bt to connect to gps | 18:56 |
| * GeneralAntilles conquers a bubble pack | 18:56 | |
| thopiekar | greentux: als du online gekommen bist stand da: [n=lemke@ip-90-186-166-197.web.vodafone.de] :) | 18:56 |
| thopiekar | udovdh: no intregrated gps... | 18:57 |
| udovdh | I see | 18:57 |
| greentux | thopiekar: yes vodafone... umts | 18:57 |
| thopiekar | :P is it fast and how much do you pay? | 18:58 |
| sanchiii | hi, how long does it usually take to get the approval for the extras-devel autobuilder? i requested an invitation yesterday night but have not heard anything yet... | 19:01 |
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| thopiekar | It has taken for me not more than 3days to get access.. | 19:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | sanchiii, 24-48 hours | 19:02 |
| sanchiii | ah ok then this is still normal (was just wondering 'cause it said something about 'hours' on that other page) | 19:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not including weekends | 19:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It mostly depends on when X-Fade gets around to getting through the daily queue. ;) | 19:03 |
| sanchiii | ;) ah ok so they don't check the credit card record... | 19:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's just one person approving, so. ;) | 19:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Feel free to throw things at him (just nothing too sharp or heavy) if it'll make you feel better. ;) | 19:04 |
| sanchiii | hm, i got a package which is quite lightweigfht, and should be soft as well :^) | 19:05 |
| * qwerty12 throws GeneralAntilles at X-Fade | 19:05 | |
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| * GeneralAntilles gets a free flight to Europe. | 19:06 | |
| * sanchiii wonders how soft GeneralAntilles is | 19:06 | |
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| * GeneralAntilles has lots of sharp edges. | 19:06 | |
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| Jaffa | He likes long walks on the beach. That's pretty soft. | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm going to bring shuriken to the Summit to throw at you and Tim, Jaffa. :P | 19:07 |
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| sanchiii | this has probably been asked 100s of times, but i am going to ask one more time: how about the porting gurus here to port a simple but fun groovebox or synthesizer to NIT? | 19:09 |
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| dl9pf | hi | 19:14 |
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| * rmt yawns. | 19:21 | |
| Stskeeps | wb | 19:21 |
| rmt | Okay.. compiling newer libs for the N810 .. Gtk and all its dependencies.. | 19:22 |
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| * rmt really just wants vala to work nicely. | 19:23 | |
| Stskeeps | rmt: grab the fremantle gtk imho | 19:24 |
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| rmt | Stskeeps, Will probably do a quasi fremantle upgrade once I've got the device.. | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | rmt: be aware you might simply be doing double work though | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | mer's designed for bringing it up to date with fremantle | 19:26 |
| rmt | Yup.. but my immediate goal is to get valac compiling my app in scratchbox .. and it's been a while since I've compiled glib/gtk etc.. remembering all the common pitfalls right now. :) | 19:27 |
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| thopiekar | Stskeeps: what could be the cause why maemo extras assistant just builded i386 packages? | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: no clue | 19:33 |
| thopiekar | I just set up arch: all in control.. | 19:33 |
| qwerty12 | Exactly. | 19:33 |
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| Stskeeps | you mean "any" | 19:33 |
| thopiekar | where is the difference? | 19:34 |
| qwerty12 | Why do you need the same thing built twice if it's suitable for all archs? | 19:34 |
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| thopiekar | don't know isn't it better do provide packages for armel and i386? | 19:34 |
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| qwerty12 | Not if it isn't needed. Just wastes repository space then. | 19:35 |
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| thopiekar | k | 19:36 |
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| thopiekar | does anybody know why this has happend? | 19:38 |
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| thopiekar | http://pastebin.com/d2b3d52bb | 19:38 |
| thopiekar | qwerty12: ? | 19:41 |
| qwerty12 | Sorry, can't open the link, I'm trying to get my ass to Mullholland | 19:41 |
| thopiekar | Mullholland? | 19:42 |
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| qwerty12 | Place in GTA :) | 19:42 |
| Jaffa | rmt: I've built vala in scratchbox with a trivial mud recipe, and had intended on updating it and uploading it to extras-devel tonight | 19:42 |
| thopiekar | :P | 19:42 |
| thopiekar | hi nomis | 19:42 |
| thopiekar | qwerty12: gta4? | 19:42 |
| qwerty12 | thopiekar, no, my computer is too shit :( - Gta San Andreas | 19:43 |
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| Jaffa | rmt: more info (incl. link to the mud-builder recipe) at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=272025&postcount=447 | 19:43 |
| thopiekar | hehe GTA:SA rocks but isn't running through wine | 19:44 |
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| qwerty12 | thopiekar: lol, yeah, in windows atm using mirc (missing linux and xchat :() :) | 19:45 |
| thopiekar | qwerty12: :P | 19:45 |
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| thopiekar | http://pastebin.com/d4e2ce717 -> !? | 19:48 |
| thopiekar | edited the control now and set all to any... | 19:50 |
| rmt | Jaffa, Yeah.. the app I made uses glib's regex's, which aren't in diablo's glib, (if I understood the errors this morning).. | 19:50 |
| thopiekar | build in i386 was successfully for the first time.. but now armel is ok and i386 fails... | 19:50 |
| mikkov__ | GTA:SA runs fine with wine | 19:55 |
| thopiekar | uch? | 19:55 |
| lcuk | EVERYTHING runs fine with wine | 19:55 |
| thopiekar | *nod* | 19:55 |
| qwerty12 | My ATI drivers don't run well in that case :/ | 19:55 |
| lcuk | and if not, you wont notice it | 19:55 |
| mikkov__ | I have played all missions except the last one | 19:56 |
| thopiekar | qwerty12: I don't think that our ATI-cards are the problem.. | 19:56 |
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| lcuk | hurrah! n810 lived through the night last night | 19:58 |
| thopiekar | http://pastebin.com/d4e2ce717.. could someone please tell me why this build fails? | 19:58 |
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| Jaffa | That reminds me. I need to raise the pc-connectiviyt bug about it breaking the Fn key (since the most recent update rebroke it) | 19:58 |
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| Stskeeps | suihkulokki: am i wrong in assuming it's possible to intermix VFP libraries and non-VFP binaries? | 20:12 |
| suihkulokki | Stskeeps: you are not wrong | 20:15 |
| Stskeeps | k | 20:15 |
| suihkulokki | annoying double negation | 20:15 |
| Stskeeps | yeah :P | 20:15 |
| tank-man | I also love to hate it when people use double negation | 20:16 |
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| suihkulokki | as long as the VFP libs have compiled with softfp abi, intermixing them with non-VFP binaries and libraries works just fine | 20:17 |
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| Stskeeps | alright, - ta :) | 20:21 |
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| darkblue_B | hi - I see libcurl stuff in /usr/lib on an N800, but no curl?? | 21:07 |
| darkblue_B | whats the trick? | 21:07 |
| darkblue_B | I got a .deb from curl.haxx.se that says Maemo 4.1.. just install that? | 21:08 |
| darkblue_B | seems fishy | 21:08 |
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| rmt | Okey.. my vala app seems to work okay, except for some strange Xephyr input behaviour.. xmodmap seems to fix most of it, though. | 21:10 |
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| darkblue_B | "Warning: downgrading libcurl3 from 7.15.5.1osso4 to 7.15.5.1osso3.." | 21:12 |
| darkblue_B | what kind of version number is that... | 21:12 |
| darkblue_B | and still no curl ?! | 21:13 |
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| darkblue_B | ok, curl is at the top of the page, seperate | 21:15 |
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| darkblue_B | but I cant build on this N800 | 21:15 |
| darkblue_B | so I need a binary curl, yes | 21:15 |
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| vasily_pupkin | wow | 21:21 |
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| vasily_pupkin | i mount my ixus 960 as gphotofs to n810 | 21:21 |
| vasily_pupkin | cool (% | 21:21 |
| Firebird | hmm, any reason itt no longer counts towards karma? | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | itT was down last night | 21:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably messed up the count. | 21:23 |
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| jaem_N810 | is there any chance we could have a "New in Extras" RSS feed, or something similar? Arch Linux does, and it's rather handy | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, worth a suggestion | 21:32 |
| jaem_N810 | when I've used distros that don't have that, I often find myself spending more time looking for interesting apps than using them :P | 21:33 |
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| jaem_N810 | by the way, how /is/ Maemo pronounced? May-mo? My-mo? | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | Mæmo? :P | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | i actually don't know. Fremantle is a tough one for me too. | 21:36 |
| jaem_N810 | I heard Quim pronounce it on an interview, but I forgot | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | jaem_N810, see the wikipedia article. | 21:37 |
| jaem_N810 | and I haven't dug up the podcast again | 21:37 |
| jaem_N810 | GA: oh right... duh | 21:37 |
| jaem_N810 | :P | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?ggfrem01.wav=Fremantle | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | jaem_N810, there's a Downloads RSS feed for that. | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm hoping to have it directly in the Application Manager soon. | 21:38 |
| jaem_N810 | GA: that would be good :) But does the Downloads section cover everything? | 21:39 |
| jaem_N810 | ...in extras, that is | 21:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Downloads entries are automagically created for stuff in Extras. | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: what, it's not Free-mant-el? :P | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | .. ok, it is actually | 21:40 |
| mikkov__ | GeneralAntilles: no they are not. only updates are shown automatically | 21:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, that's changed. | 21:40 |
| lcuk | http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?ggfrem01.wav=ClickHereToDownloadPlugin | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Regressions and maemo.org, who would've guessed? ;) | 21:41 |
| mikkov__ | afaik entries have never been autocreated | 21:41 |
| lcuk | the downloads thing is different | 21:42 |
| jaem_N810 | mikkov__: that was my impression (and why I asked) | 21:42 |
| lcuk | it needs bigger description etc than the debian package | 21:42 |
| lcuk | and pictures | 21:43 |
| Jaffa | re | 21:44 |
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| stevenbell | hi, I'm having problems running the gps demo from https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/maemo_4.1/maemo-examples/example_gps.c | 22:17 |
| stevenbell | it builds ok (except for a warning on line 64), but when I run it, I get "Could not start GPS" and it terminates. | 22:20 |
| stevenbell | But the GPS icon does appear on my tablet, and it seems to be searching for satellites. | 22:20 |
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| * Jaffa settles down after dinner for some hardcore Maemo hackery | 22:30 | |
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| coldboot | I've got Scratchbox 1 installed, and I'm trying to install python2.5, but dpkg keeps coming back with errors like "unable to create `./usr/bin/easy_install': Permission denied. | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | fakeroot? | 22:36 |
| coldboot | I think it's because ./usr/bin doesn't exist, even if I install while in '/' (I think dpkg is changing the directory) | 22:36 |
| coldboot | Yeah I'm using fakeroot. | 22:36 |
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| coldboot | Is trying to install to ./usr/bin instead of /usr/bin | 22:36 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Hello ... | 22:37 |
| coldboot | It is trying to install... | 22:37 |
| Khertan_n810 | i see that there is client for mpd on nit ? | 22:37 |
| Khertan_n810 | does there is the server available too ? | 22:37 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yep | 22:37 |
| Khertan_n810 | i didn t see it on extras | 22:38 |
| qwerty12_N800 | an old version is on garage | 22:38 |
| qwerty12_N800 | i spent a day compiling my own pimped version but I lost the debs :( | 22:38 |
| Khertan_n810 | :( | 22:38 |
| qwerty12_N800 | the garage version should work well though, used it fine for a long while (with mmpc & sonata ) | 22:39 |
| Jaffa | johnx: can you elaborate on the fremantle dialogue UI problem with zenity in #4183 please? | 22:40 |
| coldboot | Nevermind, got it. | 22:40 |
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| Khertan_n810 | thx qwerty1z | 22:42 |
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| lahiru | Hi | 22:47 |
| lahiru | I was thinking about installing Ubuntu on my N800 | 22:48 |
| lahiru | but I have a 4GB mem card | 22:48 |
| jaem_afk | lahiru: that's enough for LXDE, which is lighter than GNOME | 22:48 |
| lahiru | do u think tht will sufficient for tha Gnome desktop? | 22:49 |
| jaem_afk | probably not, once you add a decent amount of swap | 22:49 |
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| lahiru | ah | 22:49 |
| lahiru | so can I just install LXDE? | 22:50 |
| jaem | yes. just follow the instructions, except for the "installing ubuntu-desktop" part | 22:50 |
| jaem | I think the package is just called "lxde" | 22:50 |
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| jaem | lahiru: I have to go to an appointment, but if you give me 15 or so, I can be back online while I'm on my way | 22:52 |
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| lahiru | jaem_afk, thanks a lot! I'll install the ubuntu base first. :) | 22:52 |
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| ShadowJK | Don't you just love dialogs with questions that have a negative in them, and you get presented with a "Yes" or "No" choice. Do you want to not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not erase and permanently brick all of your computers? Yes/No | 22:56 |
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| Tu13es | anyone using Mer? | 23:14 |
| Tu13es | I can't really figure out what it is/does | 23:14 |
| Tu13es | the site mostly talks about goals/mission etc | 23:14 |
| Tu13es | but not much about what it *is* | 23:14 |
| Stskeeps | Tu13es: mm. it comes from some thoughts on reconstructing maemo - but to make a long story short, imagine a maemo where you had the power of the ubuntu repository and ease of development | 23:16 |
| Tu13es | hmm | 23:16 |
| Tu13es | I'm not a developer, so would the main reason I'd want to use Mer is to get "normal" linux apps? | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | for instance, or keep on having a modern OS on your N8x0, since Nokia won't provide Fremantle for it :P | 23:17 |
| Tu13es | heh | 23:17 |
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| Tu13es | well, my n800 has been collecting dust for a while | 23:17 |
| Tu13es | I'm debating whether it's worth digging out for Mer or not | 23:18 |
| Tu13es | I'd actually kind of like to fiddle with the "real" ubuntu on it, but my SD cards aren't large enough | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | 4gb really ought to be more than enough, maybe not for gnome, but .. | 23:18 |
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| Tu13es | yeah, my largest is 2gb at the moment | 23:19 |
| Tu13es | i'll buy a few 8gb cards in a bit | 23:19 |
| Stskeeps | also, mer is a lot easier to install :P | 23:19 |
| Tu13es | heh, yeah | 23:19 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps ... hum you have removed the 'no no no' dialog ? | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: hmm? | 23:20 |
| lahiru | can you tell me where I can find a howto on installing debootstrap, Bootmenu and binutils please? | 23:20 |
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| Tu13es | Stskeeps: how big a SD card do I need for Mer? | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | Tu13es: i use a 2gb card myself | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | it fits in 139mb tar.gz, so, yeah | 23:21 |
| Tu13es | hmm | 23:21 |
| Tu13es | will a 1gb card work? | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | it's stretching it a bit but yes | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | (i think) | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | ./dev/mmcblk1p3 3.4G 436.4M 2.8G 13% /mnt/deblet | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | so, ye | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | s | 23:22 |
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| Tu13es | cool | 23:25 |
| lahiru | I really wanna find out how to install debootstrap an binutils. any help please! :) | 23:25 |
| lahiru | thanks in advance | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | lahiru: it should say in the guide | 23:26 |
| lahiru | mmm | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | b-man really needs some kinda warning that it is not a trivial operation to install ubuntu.. | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | Tu13es: tablet-ubuntu is basically mer without our specialized maemo gtk and such | 23:27 |
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| Tu13es | ah | 23:31 |
| Jaffa | Can anyone remember: if the auto-builder fails to build a package (say, vala_0.5.7), will it pick up a new upload with the exact same version number? | 23:35 |
| Jaffa | Ah. Build status just come through: answer == yes | 23:35 |
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| Khertan_n810 | bye | 23:43 |
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| RST38h | "NBC Universal has decided to change the name of their Sci Fi Channel to Syfy. Why? To pull in a more 'mainstream' audience." | 23:45 |
| RST38h | Am I the only one instantly associating the new name with syphilis? | 23:45 |
| Stskeeps | nop, not only you | 23:47 |
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| RST38h | good, I started worrying =) | 23:50 |
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